#edubuntu 2005-12-26
<Lord_Athur> arkan0x, 
<Lord_Athur> 
<arkan0x> Lord_Athur, hi
<Lord_Athur> arkan0x, 
<Lord_Athur> did you recive my email?
<arkan0x> parece ke no
<arkan0x> Lord_Athur, edubuntu-es
<arkan0x> canal
<Lord_Athur> 
<vlekk> So what are we looking at for edubuntu vs. ubuntu?
<vlekk> Mostyl LSTP?
<vlekk> LTSP even
<Lord_Athur> I'd like to start my system with other ip and mask, where can I find information using internet?
<ogra> vlekk, then we'd call it Lubuntu ;)
<vlekk> You want to change the private network you are on?
<ogra> Lord_Athur, use the network control panel from your system menu 
<ogra> vlekk, its a bit more than LTSP, even if development for the surrent version is fcoused on it ...
<ogra> *current
<ogra> Lord_Athur, (or if you like to poke around in config files pick /etc/network/interfaces)
<vlekk> I'm guessing a 'server' install off of a regular ubuntu cd then 'apt-get install edubuntuj
<vlekk> damn kids
<vlekk> keep mashing down on my keyboard
<ogra> vlekk, there is kdeedu, gcompris, the tux4kids apps, different artwork a schooltool calendar server, preparation for moodle ...
<vlekk> issuing 'apt-get install edubuntu-desktop will give me the same
<ogra> adn LTSP
<ogra> *and
<ogra> nope
<ogra> the installer is modidfied to set up the ltsp environemnt for you ... 
<ogra> edubuntu-desktop gives you the edubuntu standfalone workstation install
<vlekk> ....wondering if there is a network install...
<vlekk> no cd burner
<Lord_Athur> will the shipping part of the ubuntu project allow us to order edubuntu CDs instead of ubuntu CDs?
<ogra> there is a ubuntu network instal 
<ogra> Lord_Athur, it was said that we'll have some thousand CDs for educational projects to ship with dapper ...
<Lord_Athur> really?
<Lord_Athur> can we make an order now?
<ogra> but they have to provide exact info where the CDs are used and what for  ...
<ogra> nope
<Lord_Athur> ok
<Lord_Athur> then how can I give them information about me
<Lord_Athur> and my school?
<ogra> send a mail to JaneW 
<ogra> i'm not sure how she plans to do it this time ...
<Lord_Athur> mm
<Lord_Athur> ok
<ogra> we tried with a wikipage for the last release, but since there was nobody providing info, the CDs were cancelled
<Lord_Athur> a?????
<Lord_Athur> info about what=?
<ogra> mark wants to see that there is enough interest, before he donates money for that
<ogra> what kind of project, why do they want CDs, what will they be used for in which part of the world etc ...
<Lord_Athur> but
<Lord_Athur> I had a wikipage
<Lord_Athur> but nobody send me an email
<Lord_Athur> about my intentions
<Lord_Athur> with edubuntu
<Lord_Athur> and finally I deleted the page
<Lord_Athur> :S
<vlekk> looks like my only option is to wait until i can get a cd burned....don't see a network install image
<ogra> Lord_Athur, http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuShippingPlans
<Lord_Athur> ok ogra 
<ogra> there are is only mhz ...
<ogra> vlekk, you can use the ubuntu netinstall image ...
<ogra> and install edubuntu-server and edubuntu-desktop on top ...
<Lord_Athur> then, do I put my name and the number of cds that I want?
<vlekk> oic....so after installing issue 'apt-get install edubuntu-server' and 'apt-get install edubuntu-desktop'
<ogra> then follow the ThinClientHowto from wiki.edubuntu.org (as opposed to EdubuntuInstallNotes for a burned CD)
<ogra> Lord_Athur, nope
<Lord_Athur> 
<Lord_Athur> then
<ogra> that was for the last release and discarded, as i said
<Lord_Athur> tell me what I must do
<Lord_Athur> :D
<ogra> i told you above
<Lord_Athur> oki
<Lord_Athur> jajjaa
<ogra> mail JaneW 
<Lord_Athur> ok
<Lord_Athur> what's that?
<vlekk> Lord_Athur: email me your address to vlekk@yahoo.com and I can send you a regular ubuntu install cd...i have a few
<ogra> Lord_Athur, janew@hbd.com
<ogra> she will collect requests, if we get enough, there will be pressed CDs this release
<ogra> mark wont just donate money for CDs we'll never ship ... so he needs some proof that there is enough interest
<Lord_Athur> will the CDs be free of charge (for shipping)?
<ogra> yup
<Lord_Athur> yup?
<Lord_Athur> what's that?
<ogra> if mark/canonical pays for them ...
<ogra> yup==yes
<Lord_Athur> ok
<Lord_Athur> vlekk, and you game different address
<Lord_Athur> what's the correct?
<Lord_Athur> vlekk, 
<vlekk> ummmm
<Lord_Athur> where do you live?
<vlekk> please rephrase that
<vlekk> earth
<ogra> lol
<Lord_Athur> 
<Lord_Athur> country
<Lord_Athur> city
<ogra> sad, i was hopng moon or mars :)
<Lord_Athur> 
<Lord_Athur> jajaja
<vlekk> west coast of north america
<vlekk> i don't care where i have to mail it....it would only cost me a few dollars at most
<Lord_Athur> maybe we haven't got the best comunication because I don't understand ever the things that you are writing to me :S
<Lord_Athur> vlekk, 
<vlekk> What?
<Lord_Athur> jajaja
<vlekk> I don't know what 'jajaja' means.
<Lord_Athur> I've got ubuntu instalation CDs
<Lord_Athur> mmm
<Lord_Athur> P3L|C4N0, 
<vlekk> Then you can install edubuntu also.
<Lord_Athur> como se dice "risa" en ingls?
<Lord_Athur> ok
<ogra> vlekk, Lord_Athur means your spanish isnt good enough for him to understand ... he is from chile :)
<Lord_Athur> :D
<Lord_Athur> mm
<Lord_Athur> and I've got a ba English
<Lord_Athur> :S
<P3L|C4N0> Lord_Athur,  laughter
<vlekk> Hablo muy muy poco Espanol.
<ogra> Lord_Athur, thats what i wanted to say with it in my weird german humor ;)
<vlekk> Sorry....Espaol
<vlekk> I'm working for a BS in Linguistics.
* ogra thinks he should look for very good dictionary software for the next edubuntu release :)
<Lord_Athur> ok
<Lord_Athur> :D
<Lord_Athur> .p
<vlekk> http://babelfish.altavista.com/tr
<vlekk> 8-)
<Lord_Athur> ogra, 
<ogra> heh
<Lord_Athur> do I send you a copy of the mail for janew@hbd.com?
<ogra> if you like ...
<vlekk> I'll return in an hour or two after I get edubuntu on this old box....
<Lord_Athur> ok vlekk 
<ogra> i'll be asleep than ...
<Lord_Athur> then ogra 
<ogra> *then 
<Lord_Athur> ogra, give me your mail address
<Lord_Athur> if you want
<Lord_Athur> :D
<ogra> ogra@ubuntu.com
<Lord_Athur> ogra, can I get a free email of ubuntu?
<Lord_Athur> :D
<ogra> sure
<Lord_Athur> I'd be so happy
<Lord_Athur> how?
<ogra> you need to become a member
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewMemberHowto
<Lord_Athur> where do you do the meetings?
<Lord_Athur> ogra, I sent you the mail
<Lord_Athur> with copy to the woman 
<Lord_Athur> :D
<Lord_Athur> Do I have to be a member to get the mail
<Lord_Athur> ?
<Lord_Athur> :S
<Lord_Athur> jejeje
<ogra> yup
<ogra> all approved members get such n address
<ogra> s/n/an/
<Lord_Athur> a?
<Lord_Athur> s / n/ an???
<ogra> thats a programmer command for substituting "n" with "an" 
<ogra> it refers to the sentence before where the "a" of "an" was missing
<Lord_Athur> ok
<Lord_Athur> I've to go
<Lord_Athur> bye
<Lord_Athur> ogra, 
<Lord_Athur> I sent the mail
<ogra> yup
<ogra> see you around ...
<Lord_Athur> remember to write me if you know something
<Lord_Athur> :D
<Lord_Athur> please
<ogra> sure
<JaneW> ogra: ping
<JaneW> ogra: Edubuntu has been entered for the Stockholm challenge, please take a look at http://www.stockholmchallenge.se/projectdata.asp?id=1&projectid=1044, and let me know if anything needs to be changed
<JaneW> ogra: also note that it asked for MY location so now the project is listed as from Cape Town, SA - should I change that to London or what?
<crimsun> JaneW:  the Summary, it may be useful to include a short phrase regarding what a "terminal server" is.
<crimsun> hum, that was supposed to read "In the Summary"
<crimsun> on second thought, perhaps the Summary just needs to be streamlined to place that reference closer to the "LTSP thin client architecture"
<JaneW> crimsun: ok I am open to suggestions, it was a LONG entry form so I am sure my effort can be improved on ;)
<crimsun> I'm trying to gauge the target audience (well, at least the judges?)
<crimsun> I think off the bat in the top description it's worthwhile emphasising that it's a "complete single-disc education-focused..."
<crimsun> That way it's reinforced in the Summary.
<JaneW> right
<JaneW> crimsun: it's there already "Edubuntu includes more than 16,000 pieces of software, but the core installation fits on a single CD."
<crimsun> JaneW: right. I was referring to the idea that the top description would be more forceful if it emphasised the single-cd bit
<JaneW> crimsun: do you think that really matters in the first sentence?
<crimsun> JaneW: to be honest, no, it's not absolutely critical, but it's certainly one of Edubuntu's strongest selling points, a single-disc solution
* JaneW will be away for a bit
<lucasvo> crimsun: it is not only a a single-disc solution, it has also an included Opensource(free) Operating system,
<lucasvo> ogra: what's the topic for edubuntu meeting?
<Yagisan> lucasvo: how to turn your edubuntu setup into a dvd ripping cluster ;)
<lucasvo> Yagisan: yeah, good idea :D
<lucasvo> Yagisan: are you using it?
<Yagisan> lucasvo: building it right now
<Yagisan> lucasvo: I have the LTSP server, and the firewall running, now I'm adding the clients :)
<ogra> JaneW, looks fine to me
<JaneW> ogra: :)
<ogra> lucasvo, we have a fixed agenda .... its always the same
<lucasvo> ogra: ah ok
<Yagisan> ogra: If I add a nfs entry to /etc/fstab in the ltsp chroot, should the client automatically mount it on boot ?
<lucasvo> Yagisan: /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/fstab is the correct file
<lucasvo> Yagisan: theoretically yes
<lucasvo> I think
<ogra> if you dont put noauto in it, that should work .... 
<Yagisan> ok. this is odd, reading /etc.fstab from the client, shows a different /etc/fstab then the one in the chroot on the server
<ogra> ah... yes, wait a sec
<ogra> have a look at configure_fstab() /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/init.d/ltsp-client-setup
<ogra> add it there (and provide a clean patch to put "$EXTRADIRS" in there ;) so i can add it ) 
<Yagisan> brb - baby calling
<Yagisan> ogra: I suppose I should provide a patch against dappers ltsp package for you
<ogra> yup
<Yagisan> any issues in backporting dappers ltsp package to breezy ?
<ogra> yes ...
<ogra> the current one might be fine, but the next upload will have some changes that need dhcpd 3.0.3
<ogra> so if you want to manually bakport, use the current one ...
<Yagisan> ogra: so, other then dhcp, no other issues ? if so, it's an easy backport, and as an added bonus, I can test the patch before sending it :)
<ogra> yup, it will also be an easy backport in the future as long as you do it manually ... but we cant put it in breezy-backports
<ogra> since i'll add a versioned dependency on dhcpd 3.0.3
<ogra> (which is easy to work around locally, but a bad thing in -backports)
<Yagisan> ogra: no worries ogra, that's why I have "deb http://eyagi.bpa.nu/~jamie/ubuntu breezy main restricted universe multiverse" in all my sources :)
<ogra> oki
<Yagisan> for all my backports, and "ubuntu-can't-ship-it" packages
<ogra> just be careful to not break others that might use your repo ;)
<Yagisan> ogra: yeah, I've had a few breakages in the past. /me recalls a few packages getting to a -6 version in under an hour from a -1
<Yagisan> ogra: ltsp-client-setup can only see what is in the ltsp chroot right ? so no pointing it to the servers /etc for config files
* Yagisan reads code - we have network swap now ?
<JaneW> **Reminder** Edubuntu Update Meeting in #ubuntu-devel in 10 mins
<irvin> JaneW, where can i find the meeting agenda?
<JaneW> http://www.aunali.plus.com/html/xmas_sound_anim.htm
<JaneW> oops not not there ;)
<JaneW> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/MeetingRecords
<irvin> thanks
<irvin> is it on #ubuntu-devel or #ubuntu-meeting?
<JaneW> gees, I think I am on drugs...
<JaneW> lemme try again
<JaneW> **Reminder** Edubuntu Update Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 8 mins
<JaneW> sorry all
<Yagisan> JaneW: Can I get some of those drugs ;)
<JaneW> (I NEED my holiday!)
<JaneW> Yagisan: if you wanna be brain death and all useless sure ;)
<Yagisan> JaneW: no for that I had two small kids, lack of sleep does that
<JaneW> Yagisan: indeed!
<Yagisan> JaneW: I'd like something that makes me feel happy waking up every 45 minutes to change nappies and feed the kids
<JaneW> Yagisan: *cough*sex*cough* ?
<Yagisan> JaneW: sex is but a distant memory to me now
<JaneW> heh
<Yagisan> JaneW: I can't even mention that word to my wife now. The baby was huge and tore her up quite bad. 4 weeks and still not healed :(
<JaneW> Yagisan: ouch
* JaneW had huge babies too, I sympathise
<Yagisan> JaneW: that is an understatement. She has trouble sitting down, can't run either.
<JaneW> *flinch*
<Yagisan> JaneW: I describe it as a tiny little Japanese lady, giving birth to a 3.5kg football. It wasn't going to fit.
<JaneW> poor lady
<JaneW> mine were 4.5kgs, but I am not little ;)
<JaneW> and I have WIIIDE hips ;)
<ogra> JaneW, not really ...
<Lord_Athur> ogra, 
<Lord_Athur> ogra, 
<Yagisan> Lord_Athur: meeting
<Lord_Athur> mm
<Lord_Athur> ok
<Lord_Athur> I have not seen mhz here, has he been on line today?
<Lord_Athur> Yagisan, did mhz change his nickname?
<Yagisan> Lord_Athur: nope, he must be having a day off
<JaneW> Yagisan: gasp, slacker! ;P
<Yagisan> yep. how dare he sleep! ;)
<JaneW> hello
<JaneW> oh in other news
<lucasvo> hi
<JaneW> I forgot to mention it IN the meeting
<ogra> that mhz is a slacker ? 
<kjcole> ("Ahh, this must be the Old Same Place..." or "How can you be in two places at once, when you're not anywhere at all?" -- Firesign Theater)
<JaneW> I have entered Edubuntu into the Educational category of the The Stockholm Challenge Award 2006
<JaneW> ogra: lol, no we'll let him of, but just this once ;)
<ogra> yeah, and located it to SA :)
<JaneW> http://www.stockholmchallenge.se/projectdata.asp?id=1&projectid=1044
<JaneW> ogra: what should it be?
<ogra> so if we get a price, i can see SA :)
<lucasvo> SA?
<JaneW> please any suggestions to change/improve the entry are welcomed
<ogra> JaneW, oh, its absolutely fine 
<ogra> just lets win and mark will pay a flight for me :) 
<JaneW> ogra: I didn;t realise it was going to be listed like that but I am more than happy to change it, it;s very easy to do
<ogra> no, leave it :)
<ogra> its fine :)
<JaneW> I am thinking it should be UK, since that's where canonical 'is'
<ogra> then it should be "isle of man", since thats canonicals address
<Yagisan> Why ? the developers are from all over the world
<Yagisan> just stick in EARTH
<ogra> yeah
<lucasvo> hm, kjcole I can't find the "Join" link on the launchpad page
<kjcole> lucasvo, hold on a second.  It's there, but I forget where.  (You're on the "Cookbook Cooks" page?)
<lucasvo> https://launchpad.net/products/edubuntu.cookbook/
<lucasvo> kjcole: ah, I found it
<lucasvo> kjcole: joined
* Yagisan is very unhappy with this "Message: udeb owner () do not match ltsp_0.61~udubackport1_amd64.changes owner (1000)."
<Yagisan> why is it that ltsp has to be the one package that isn't liked
<Yagisan> by debarchiver
<kjcole> Gots to RUN once again and pretend to work for my office. 
<kjcole> Ta-ta all
<lucasvo> kjcole: bye
<Lord_Athur> hi
<Yagisan> Lord_Athur: Hi, mhz is still slacking ;)
<Lord_Athur> a=?
<Lord_Athur> I did not understand it
<Lord_Athur> :S
<Yagisan> Lord_Athur: mhz has not logged in since you were here last
<Lord_Athur> ok
<Lord_Athur> thanks
<Yagisan> Lord_Athur: It was my poor attempt at humor
<Lord_Athur> :D
<Lord_Athur> jajjaa
<Lord_Athur> Yagisan, I'm Spanish and I cannot understand the Engish humot fine
<Lord_Athur> :P
<Yagisan> Lord_Athur: that's ok - my wife is Japanese and she has trouble understanding my humor too
<Lord_Athur> jajaja
<Yagisan> Lord_Athur: actually, so do many English speaking people ...
<Lord_Athur> :D
<Yagisan> ogra: Could you explain to me why video ram should be limited in the ltsp clients ?
<Yagisan> ogra: I don't understand why it needs to be capped
<ogra> Yagisan, see my answer at the bottom opf the spec
<Yagisan> ogra: I know that the video memory gets slotted in the address space, but I can't see how it uses much kernel memory
<ogra> nope
<Lord_Athur> ogra, 
<ogra> the kernel already uses the memory, X cant allocate memory and fails to start
<Lord_Athur> ogra, the resquest woman sent me an answer, but my e-mal had any problems and I could not read the mail
<Lord_Athur> :S
<Yagisan> ogra: how so ? I'm looking at the /proc/meminfo on a 64MB client with a 64MB video card
<ogra> Yagisan, we tested with a 128MB card and main mem set to 48MB (which boots fine with a 32MB card) ...
<ogra> we had different results, like kernel oopsing because out of memory or X not starting but the system booted 
<ogra> Lord_Athur, i think she is on christmas holiday since 1h ... you'll have to wait till next year
<Lord_Athur> :D
<lucasvo> Lord_Athur: she turned off her laptop!
<ogra> with a little luck she might drop by here before she leaves completely ...)
<lucasvo> ;-)
<Lord_Athur> ok lucasvo 
<lucasvo> who is working on the cookbook amt?
<lucasvo> *atm
<Yagisan> ogra: that is odd. I'd have expected a small increase in the PageTables size to accommodate the extra video ram space, but not your results
<lucasvo> lucasvo@lama:~/ubuntu/Lucas_CookBook/lore$ make
<lucasvo> lore --config template=./resources/template.tpl *.lore
<lucasvo> /usr/bin/lore: ./resources/template.tpl: No such file or directory
<lucasvo> getProcessor() failed
<Yagisan> ogra: ltsp patches bugzilla or malone ?
<ogra> bugzilla
<Lord_Athur> I forgot it, but what program can I uso for graphical design (for cards, letters)?
<lucasvo> is launchpad opensource software?
<ogra> feel free to assign it to me
<ogra> lucasvo, nope
<lucasvo> Lord_Athur: scribus, inkscape?
<ogra> Lord_Athur, inkscape 
<lucasvo> ogra: why not?
<ogra> and glables to put it on cards
<ogra> lucasvo, because canonical lives from it ... it will be GPLed once
<Yagisan> ogra: ok. better test it first then
<lucasvo> like bitkeeper
<lucasvo> ogra: canonical sells it?
<ogra> lucasvo, services on it 
<lucasvo> ogra: what services?
<Yagisan> lucasvo: support for one thing
* Yagisan spoke to sabdfl about that at UDU
<ogra> there will be the possibility to click together your ownb derivative CD for example ... we'll charge for the CPU power that costs
<Yagisan> ogra: seen this error before "sudo: unable to lookup ltsp via gethostbyname()"
<ogra> are you root ? 
<Yagisan> no
<ogra> sure ? 
<ogra> thats normal if you run sudo as root for example
<ogra> dunno where else it occurs
<ogra> dont forget that chroot makes you root ...
<Yagisan> oh yes, quite sure. I added another non-privileged user to the ltsp chroots
<Yagisan> something to run as the dvd rip and encode user
<Yagisan> I logged out, then back in again as root
<Yagisan> I wanted to reboot the thin clients *without* walking across the room to do it
* Yagisan loves having ssh access to *every* single thin client :)
<lucasvo> is ldm running as root?
<Yagisan> lucasvo: no idea. I'll check when the clients restart
<ogra> lucasvo, yes
<lucasvo> Well, of course that depends on who you are and what you need it for. If you're interested in Edubuntu then you probably don't have lots and lots of money, and you're probably interested in learning: learning about computers, yes, but also education in general. When answering this question for yourself, here are two things to keep in mind:
<Yagisan> woooo hooooo!!
<Yagisan> worked first time :)
<lucasvo> this is crap, it should be removed from cookbook, edubuntu is not *only* for people without money!
<ogra> yup
<ogra> fully agreed
<ogra> but it should be pointed ot that it can be helpful to choose edubuntu if you dont have much money
<lucasvo> yes
<lucasvo> but this sentence makes me think: Edubuntu is very limited because it is only for poor people and is much worse than Microsoft
<ogra> yup
* Yagisan sobs
* Yagisan had the perfect cluster setup, then bang out of memory on the clients
* Yagisan 's todo list. make drink && make debdiff && harass ogra && beg, borrow or steal some more ram for clients && screenshot ltsp based dvd ripping cluster && brag as I get 2 fps on each box
* ogra wonders what he wants to harass him about ...
* lucasvo harrasses ogra until he gets a powerbutton in ldm! 
<lucasvo> :D
<ogra> i thought you were about to write one :P
<lucasvo> yeah, python isn't that easy
<lucasvo> and GTK is quite big :D
<ogra> ahhh.... its easier than VBscript
<lucasvo> I don't know Visual Basic
<lucasvo> I wouldn't even know how to place the button
<ogra> just look at the buttons that are already there :)(
<lucasvo> I can't see any buttons
<ogra> there is a language button and a session buttonin the code
<lucasvo> ogra: when I have a modified source, and I want to try it out, how do I have to do it?
<lucasvo> ah, in the code
<ogra> just run the greeter from a terminal ...
<lucasvo> hm, ok
<lucasvo> ogra: will it start up X
<lucasvo> ?
<ogra> nope, i mean on your desktop
<ogra> just execute the greeter
<ogra> for designing it thats enough ...
<ogra> if you need the functionallity, yu need to test it on a real thin client
<ogra> s/need/need to test/
<lucasvo> and how can I do that?
<ogra> copy the pieces you changed in the chroot
<lucasvo> so cp CHECKOUT chroot/etc/
<lucasvo> or do I have to remove .bzr?
<ogra> no, copy only the changed files
<Lord_Athur> ogra, 
<Lord_Athur> what's the name of the program foused to make cards?
<ogra> use inkscape for drawing, gimp to edit the drawings and glabels or scribus to make a layout for cards
<Lord_Athur> thanks
<lucasvo> lucasvo@lama:~/ubuntu/Lucas_ldm/client$ python ldm
<lucasvo> Usage: ldm <vt[1-N] > <:[0-N] >
<ogra> thats not the greeter
<Yagisan> bugzilla is ssslllloooowww
<ogra> as ussual ...
<ogra> additionally we have bugday today :)
<lucasvo> everyday should be bugday
<lucasvo> is the firefox downloads windows working ?
<lucasvo> mine doesn't dispaly anything
<lucasvo> a new version of X included into dapper recently?
* Yagisan could have done this quicker with malone, I've already done several patches there today
<ogra> but malone is universe only
<mhz> hi all
<Lord_Athur> mhz,  hi
<mhz> Lord_Athur: hey!!!
<lucasvo> hi mhz 
<mhz> lucasvo: nice to see ya
<lucasvo> ogra: how can i start the greeter?
<ogra> you execute the binary 
<mhz> /etc/init.d/gdm?
<Yagisan> ogra: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21370
<ogra> lucasvo, the gtk binary ...
<Yagisan> oh, we don't have an Ubugtu here
<lucasvo> greeter/gtk?
<ogra> yup
<ogra> Yagisan, luckily not
<Yagisan> mhz: the slacker arrives at last ;)
* ogra finds bots most annoying ...
<ogra> we are humans !!
<lucasvo> (gtk:3856): libglade-WARNING **: could not find glade file '/usr/lib/ltsp/greeters/greeter.glade'
<mhz> Yagisan: hi there!
<Yagisan> ogra: yeah, I've started spelling out the bug number in #ubuntu-motu to stop Ubugtu
<mhz> Yagisan: my english no good today :(
<lucasvo> some bots are usefull but not humanoids
<ogra> lucasvo, you know the drill ... the paths are for the package ... change them 
<Yagisan> mhz: that's ok. Lord_Athur was looking for you earlier, and we joked that you would not log in today because you decided to take the day off
<Yagisan> now to find some more ram for the clients. removing lrm had zero effect :(
<ogra> you need to regenerate the initramfs ...
<ogra> else they still get loaded there
<ogra> (look for l-r-m mounts ;) )
<ogra> hmm, might be that this has no effect in breezy ...
<Yagisan> oh, I purged it from the chroot, and rebooted the clients, it should be gone
<mhz> Yagisan: well, I am so tired and I have been solving so many family issues that believe... day off sounds real temting
<Yagisan> anyway, I have the boxes open and am changing ram over
<Yagisan> mhz: I know that feeling
<lucasvo> ogra: should the buttons already appear on screen?
<Yagisan> mhz: If you are around a bit longer, I hope to show you a dvd ripping cluster built out of ltsp clients
<Lord_Athur> I've got a little time now
<mhz> yeah!!!!!, Yagisan that'd be cool! (however I am at and off the desktop while I am cooking :)
<Yagisan> no worries. I'm around to, its 30 degrees C, and almost 3am here
<mhz> wow!
<mhz> 30 !
<Yagisan> mhz: it was 37 during the day, we had a few bushfires too
<lucasvo> ogra_: ok, I am trying to activate the buttons, but my toolbars from gnome are in the way, I can't read it
<ogra> hit alt-tab
<ogra> Yagisan, regenerated the initramfs ? 
<ogra> purging isnt enough ... th emodules will still be in the old initramfs ...
<lucasvo> but somehow it doesn't work
<ogra> the buttons are in the center of the screen ... intresting place for atoolbar :P
<lucasvo> ogra: I uncommented print self.language
<Yagisan> ogra: no, I'd need instructions, and my clients are spread over the floor having ram cannibalised from them
<ogra> thats the output
<ogra> read the comments
<ogra> Yagisan, dpkg-reconfigure linux-image........
<ogra> that generates a new one
<lucasvo> ah ok
<lucasvo> I found the buttons
<lucasvo> ogra: but why aren't they on the bottom, like in normal gdm?
<ogra> they arent at the bottom in gdm's human theme i used as referance
<lucasvo> hm
<lucasvo> I would use the edubuntu theme, where they are at the bottom
<mhz> Yagisan: were you in today's meeting?
<Yagisan> mhz: yes
<Yagisan> mhz: need a copy of the log ?
<mhz> Yagisan: i guess I can get it via URL, but if you do have it there ... :)
<Yagisan> mhz: dcc broke ?
<mhz> Yagisan: gimme a sec. I had blocked it duh!
<Yagisan> for those interested dvd ripping ltsp cluster screenie http://eyagi.bpa.nu/~jamie/ltsp-dvdrip-cluster.png
<mhz> Yagisan: shoot again, pls
* mhz tabbin
<mhz> Yagisan: thx
<lucasvo> Yagisan: can you send me the ripped dvd as well :P
* Yagisan prepares to go to bed
<Yagisan> lucasvo: 1400MB on a 256k up pipe ? 
<Yagisan> lucasvo: the goal is to rip all my daughters expensive children's dvds so I don't have to cough up $40 for a replacement  when she breaks them
* mhz has never ripped a DVD yet
<lucasvo> ah, ok
<Yagisan> I'd have had more boxes, but I cannibalised the ram for it. BTW ogra, no lrm mount points were found after purging
<mhz> cannibalised? hehehehe
<ogra> hmm, but you said it didnt free up memory
<lucasvo> waa
<lucasvo> I hate gtk
<lucasvo> ogra: so far the button is being drawn
<lucasvo> ogra: but when i click on it, the language selection menu opens
<ogra> thats fine (for the language button)
* Yagisan leaves to go to bed
<ogra> :)
<lucasvo> good night Yagisan 
<ogra> Yagisan, hey, what about harassing ? 
<lucasvo> ogra: actually it says Halt
<Yagisan> ogra: yeah  http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21370
<lucasvo> ogra: so it is quite confusing
<ogra> lucasvo, so fix that :)
<Yagisan> ogra: I expect a merge before I wake up :-P
<mhz> Yagisan: thx, sleep well
<Yagisan> goodnight
<lucasvo> ogra: hm
<ogra> :P
<ogra> night
<lucasvo> ogra: it is not that easy
<lucasvo> how can I run a command out of python?
<ogra> sure, just find out how it works for the lang menu... rip out the lang menu code and add halt code there :)
<lucasvo> ogra: you wont accept it anyway, because it is a) ugly code b) totally inefficient c) design is ruine
<lucasvo> d
<ogra> yes, but you learn a lot, just go on, make it work and we can review it together
<lucasvo> :D
<lucasvo> hm, I would like to have the halt button in the lower left corner
<lucasvo> <widget class="GtkLabel" id="host_label">
<lucasvo> ^ isn't a button?
<lucasvo> ogra: how can I test/debug .glade?
<ogra> in the glade gui tool...
<lucasvo> ogra: package?
<ogra> glade2
<lucasvo> ogra: are you going on holiday?
<ogra> not really
<lucasvo> ogra: so you will be here, assisting me in coding python ? :)
<lucasvo> ogra: I used vim for glade :D
<ogra> i'll visit my parents for dsome days, but mainly will be around th erest of the time
<lucasvo> ** (glade-2:10353): WARNING **: did not finish in PARSER_FINISH state!
<lucasvo> I don't really understand glade-2
<ogra> lucasvo, did you edit the file ? 
<lucasvo> ogra: I restored now
<lucasvo> but I don't see where I can change the gui
<dcuny> Is anyone here able to answer questions about edubuntu?
<ogra> dcuny, sure
<dcuny> OK, thanks. I picked up the latest live CD, and can't use it - the main menu comes up blank. That is, it displays, and then disappears and is replaced by a 3x3 pixel empty menu.
<dcuny> Is this a known bug?
<dcuny> The other two menus work fine.
<ogra> yup, thats a gamin bug ...
<ogra> its listed in the ubuntu announcement i linked from the edubuntu announcement i think
<dcuny> Thanks, I just wanted to make sure it was reported. Seems a bit odd a bug that large got through. :(
<ogra> it vdidnt "get through"
<ogra> :)
<ogra> its just not fixed yet ...
<dcuny> OK... Is there anywhere on the edubuntu site I can find out about this?
<ogra> dapper is not even 2 months old currently we are still bringing in new features.... 
<ogra> its a bug we inherit from ubuntu, there is surely a bug about it in bugzilla
<dcuny> I didn't think I saw it in the Dapper release I grabbed. :?
<dcuny> Anyhoo, I just wanted to make sure it got reported. Thanks! -oo-
<lucasvo> hi kjcole 
<kjcole> lucasvo, Hi again.  I'm on for the accessibilty meeting happening in a minute or two.  
<kjcole> lucasvo, I REALLY should stop trying to attend all these IRC meetings and do work for my office!
<lucasvo> kjcole: ah, it starts now?
* lucasvo forgot to switch time
<lucasvo> kjcole: is your source compiling?
<kjcole> lucasvo, I'm losing track.  I THINK that's the meeting I'm going to. ;-)
<lucasvo> kjcole: I mean for the cookbook?
<lucasvo> yes it is
<lucasvo> in 8 min
<kjcole> lucasvo, if by "compiling" you mean "Does lore like it and produce what it should for output?" I'd say "Yes... so far."
<lucasvo> http://pastebin.com/473406
<lucasvo> kjcole: do you know how I can merge back my changes to your source?
<kjcole> Crap.  I didn't use the make file, and so didn't change it.  Will fix that.
<lucasvo> kjcole: thanks
<lucasvo> kjcole: can you please commit ?
<kjcole> lucasvo, soon.  (I don't have a nice secure way for people to write to the machine holding the bzr tree.  I was hoping to have it out on Launchpad instead of my machine.)
<jelkner> mhz: mauricio, did you get my email?
<kjcole> jelkner, I sent the stuff for review to Ogra.  Am about to join the accessibility meeting starting in a minute or two.
<jelkner> cool
<lucasvo> kjcole: let's move it
<lucasvo> hi jelkner 
<lucasvo> jelkner: got my mail?
<jelkner> lucasva: yup
<kjcole> jelkner, lucasvo tried the make but the Makefile is wrong.  Will fix that.
<jelkner> did he get the source?
<kjcole> jelkner, grabbed it via bzr from me, yeah.
<jelkner> great
<jelkner> mhz: mauricio, are you here?
<lucasvo> jelkner: I didn't really try to remember what you said during the meeting...
<jelkner> about?
<lucasvo> jelkner: you said I should write an email
<jelkner> and you did
<jelkner> now i have your email address
<jelkner> and you've also got the book source
<lucasvo> jelkner: aha, my E-mail address is in launchpad anyway
<jelkner> yes, but i didn't know your name
<lucasvo> jelkner: /whois :D
<lucasvo> jelkner: no problem
<jelkner> know i do, and your email is in my address book
<jelkner> s/know/now
<jelkner> lucasvo is just tried /whois, how do you use it?
<lucasvo> jelkner: /whois jelkner
<kjcole> jelkner, /whois lucasvo
<jelkner> i typed "/whois lucasvo", hit enter, and got nothing
<lucasvo> 20:05 [freenode]  -!- jelkner [n=jelkner@158.59.246.138] 
<lucasvo> 20:05 [freenode]  -!-  ircname  : Jeffrey Elkner
<lucasvo> 20:05 [freenode]  -!-  channels : #edubuntu
<lucasvo> 20:05 [freenode]  -!-  server   : irc.freenode.net [http://freenode.net/] 
<lucasvo> 20:05 [freenode]  -!-           : is identified to services
<lucasvo> 20:05 [freenode]  -!- End of WHOI
<kjcole> jelkner, strange, I get:
<jelkner> could it be xchat?
<kjcole> [14:04]  [Whois]  lucasvo is n=lucasvo@www.wservices.ch (Lucas Vogelsang)
<kjcole> [14:04]  [Whois]  lucasvo is a user on channels: #edubuntu #ubuntu-meeting
<kjcole> [14:04]  [Whois]  lucasvo is online via irc.freenode.net (http://freenode.net/)
<kjcole> [14:04]  [Whois]  End of WHOIS list.
<lucasvo> jelkner: you need to go to the status window
<lucasvo> where you have the server status
* lucasvo is using irssi
<jelkner> ahh
<jelkner> now i see it ;-)
<kjcole> jelkner, konversation just puts it right inline with everything else.  No separate window.
<jelkner> anyway, you could now pick a chapter and begin editing
<jelkner> we have finished chapters 1 to 5
<lucasvo> jelkner: I already began
<lucasvo> but I would first like to have bzr working
<jelkner> on which one are you working?
<lucasvo> jelkner: I actually corrected only one typo so far
<lucasvo>   corrected typo anew -> a new
<jelkner> it would be most helpful if you would grab a chapter that we haven't hit yet and make a first pass at it
<jelkner> we will first be making an edit to remove content specific to tuxlabs
<jelkner> then we will begin adding back content specific to edubuntu
<jelkner> adding lore markup would also be helpful
<jelkner> ogra: are you here, oliver?
<lucasvo> lore markup is just normal html?
<jelkner> yes, and no
<jelkner> it is a subset of xhtml
<jelkner> so it is easy to use
<jelkner> but lore can then convert it into other things
<jelkner> including pretty html
<jelkner> hold on...
<jelkner> http://twistedmatrix.com/projects/lore/documentation/howto/lore.html
<lucasvo> I don't really understand bzr
<jelkner> me either
<lucasvo> I first need to understand bzr
<jelkner> kevin is supposed to teach us that
<jelkner> you don't really need bzr yet
<jelkner> since we don't have it working right anyway
<lucasvo> kjcole: teach us bzr! :D
<jelkner> he needs to learn it first ;-)
<jelkner> but there is no sense in all of us trying to learn it independently
<jelkner> that just a case of the technology getting in the way
<jelkner> rather than serving our needs
<kjcole> lucasvo, jelkner: The blind leading the blind.  (I guess that's why I'm at the accessibility meeting. ;-) )
<jelkner> lol
<jelkner> ogra: oliver, are you here?
<kjcole> lucasvo, I was wrong about the Makefile.  That's not the source of trouble (though it was incorrect).
<kjcole> lucasvo, Only the first few chapters are completely lore-ified, but the make attempted to compile them all.  So it complained about the ones that aren't ready yet.
<lucasvo> kjcole: as I am not a native english speaker it would probably be better if I lore-ify than writing text
<Lord_Athur> hi
<lucasvo> hi Lord_Athur 
<Lord_Athur> hi lucasvo 
* mhz is back
<lucasvo> kjcole: could you update a branch to edubuntu cookbook?
<lucasvo> https://launchpad.net/products/edubuntu.cookbook/+series/pre-alpha/+addrelease?lpnotification=vTzdCz2ENADfj3B5BDsIZHzpYPV
<mhz> jelkner: ahora si estoy :)
<mhz> jelkner: indeed, I just rea your email
<mhz> jelkner: and SURE!! please have them join
<jelkner> mhz: hold on, i'm in class
<mhz> jelkner: okis
<mhz> neurogeek: hi mon
<neurogeek> mhz, hey.. how is it going??
<mhz> alive and kicking
<mhz> and you?
<neurogeek> im studying moin :D
<mhz> how's your 'boss'?
<mhz> Moin, cool! I am glad you can.
<neurogeek> just around exhaustion
<mhz> remember to ask if needed
<mhz> or just give #moin guys a visit
<neurogeek> mhz, Ricardo is so so.. his mom's husband dies a week ago.. so.. he's kinda down
<mhz> neurogeek: hmm. sorry to hear that
<neurogeek> mhz, i haven't gotten into it completely.. but i started out the GUIS and stuff.. and reading configuration guidelines.. 
<neurogeek> it will be probably finished (BETA) before long
<kjcole> lucasvo, sorry I got called away.  Update a branch to the edubuntu cookbook?  I thought that's what I've been doing.
<mhz> neurogeek: please dont' get pressure
<mhz> just relax and enjoy
<neurogeek> mhz, jejeje don't worry.. although it could be weird.. i code for fun.. not just profit.. jejeje
<mhz> cool!
<mhz> I need somre profits soon, or my wife will kick my butt
<kjcole> mhz, tell her you'll  become an escort for rich widows.
<mhz> kjcole: lol1
<mhz> kjcole: been there, done that
<mhz> :D
<mhz> :Di met her?
<mhz> kjcole: how do you think I met her?
<kjcole> mhz, oooo ;-)
<mhz> heheh
<kjcole> mhz, Well, if she's rich, what does she need YOUR money for?
<mhz> heheh
<lucasvo> maybe it is the other way around? :D
<mhz> I already spent all her money on this ;)
<kjcole> mhz, ah.  I see now.
<mhz> kjcole: any news about if i can help on cookbook?
<kjcole> mhz, there's been increased demand for participation, and so, I want to encourage Ubuntu/Canonical people to help me get the files up on launchpad.net.
<lucasvo> kjcole: yeah, that would be good
<lucasvo> kjcole: -> join #launchpad
<kjcole> mhz, right now they live on my desktop machine which I'm using as a small server.  Easy to get the sources but I don't have a secure way for people to merge changes back into it.
<mhz> ohh
<lucasvo> kjcole: we should use launchpad
<mhz> not even ssh keys + bzr?
<kjcole> lucasvo, I've veen on #launchpad, but not recently.  Ogra had said that launchpad wasn't ready for that kind of stuff yet...
<lucasvo> kjcole: ok
<kjcole> mhz, That would work, I just haven't set the machine up that way.  My original plan was to use my machine to learn bzr then move the product out to Launchpad.
<mhz> kjcole: oooppsss,
<mhz> lucasvo: a11y meeting????????
<lucasvo> mhz: what?
<kjcole> mhz, just finishing up.
<mhz> duh!
<lucasvo> aha :D
<lucasvo> it is already finished
* mhz pours lots of orange juice and garlic onto his eyes for stupid!
<lucasvo> officially
<lucasvo> Once you enter the details of the RCS  you use for this product series, Launchpad can attempt to import that code and publish it as a Bazaar branch. This lets distributors share code with you more efficiently, and also allows distributed upstream development.
<kjcole> mhz, well, then you'll be able to help with the low-vision testing... ;-)
<mhz> kjcole: lol
* mhz almots peed
<kjcole> mhz, don't get that in your eyes too.
<mhz_phone> hehehe
<mhz_phone> kjcole: you are in a very good mood
<mhz_phone> cool
<lucasvo> I don't understand the bzr merging
<kjcole> lucasvo, If I understood launchpad, it will import svn and csv, converting them to bzr, but it won't import bzr itself.
<lucasvo> yeah, this is strange
<kjcole> lucasvo, at least that's what happened when I tried it.
<lucasvo> but you actually shouldn't need a bzr-server because it is a distributed rc
<lucasvo> +s
<kjcole> lucasvo, that's why I've been messing around with bzr on my system.  It is my first RCS, and I had hoped to learn all about push and merge, etc.
<kjcole> lucasvo, if I set up security right, then yeah, keeping the root on my system works. People tell me that the way to work with bzr is for everyone creates a branch locally, pulls from my tree, alters, commits and then pushes.  And I do the merge on their pushes.  (I think.)
<lucasvo> kjcole: I have access to a server located in germany, I could put it there
<kjcole> lucasvo, the problem is that I want to set up security correctly.  
<kjcole> lucasvo, that might be a possibility.  Let me check with Jeff about that, and see what he thinks.
<lucasvo> https://launchpad.net/people/kjcole/+branch/edubuntu.cookbook/wip < why aren't there any revisions?
<lucasvo> kjcole: do you live in the same city?
<lucasvo> hm, how many users would wan't r/w access?
<lucasvo> ogra: ping!
<kjcole> lucasvo, I think launchpad only scans its own stuff for revisions.  There's no indication that it has ever looked at my tree.  And yes, Jeff and I live about 4 miles apart.
<lululinux> lucasvo: this the new MrMazda machine with kubuntu pre edu package install
<lululinux> faster
<lucasvo> lululinux: faster?
<lululinux> almost ready to add the edu package
<lucasvo> aha :D
<lucasvo> I would remove kde and use gnome instead, it is much faster
<lululinux> old was P2-350, new is P3-500
<lululinux> lucasvo: you forget, I hate Gnome
<lululinux> kid will be using it though
<lucasvo> ah, ok
<lucasvo> I meant you should use it for your kid
<lululinux> what's that apt-get i need to run to add the edu package?
<kjcole> Well all, I'm going to get back to non-Ubuntu work for a bit.
<lucasvo> lululinux: sudo apt-get install edubuntu-workstation
<lucasvo> kjcole: cu
<lululinux> lucasvo: thx :)
<lucasvo> lululinux: it is not correct ;-)
<lucasvo> lululinux: it is :
<lucasvo> lululinux: sudo apt-get install edubuntu-desktop
<lululinux> lucasvo: did you see the 2 bugs I just filed? 21374 21375
<lucasvo> no
<mhz_phone> highvoltage: hi, do you have a minute?
<highvoltage> mhz_phone: yes.
<mhz> highvoltage: on LP, I noticed you have used a PNG or JPG on one of the teams descriptions
<mhz> I tried to do that, unsuccessfully.
<mhz> highvoltage: so, is there a tems' img repo or something we can use?
<highvoltage> teams img repo?
<highvoltage> what do you mean?
<highvoltage> mhz: still there? :)
<mhz> highvoltage: sorry, phone again :)
<mhz> image repositories for teams to use on Teams LP descriptions
<highvoltage> ah :)
<highvoltage> i don't think so. I just put together something in GIMP.
<mhz> highvoltage: yes, mee too
<mhz> and I could happily include a small image or emblem
<highvoltage> we could always start a team called launchpad-emblem-creators
<mhz> but there are bigger images placed at the exact Team description.
<highvoltage> and make emblems for launchpad and keep it in a repository :)
<mhz> those images, I couldn't place.
<highvoltage> which ones?
<mhz> let me show you..
* mhz tabbing
<highvoltage> sorry, a bit tired this side.
<mhz> no problem
<mhz> highvoltage: ie https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-l10n-af
<mhz> highvoltage: I tried to use html img for that, and nope.
<mhz> it was still rendered as a link but not as an image
<highvoltage> aaah, so you're asking how to insert the big image?
<highvoltage> that's the hackergotchi image.
<highvoltage> if you click on hackergotchi you can choose the image there.
<highvoltage> strange. i don't see hackergotchi on there anymore.
<highvoltage> there must be a hack around it... give me a sec...
<highvoltage> mhz: seems like they've taken away the hackergotchi link, but it still exists:
<highvoltage> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-l10n-af/+edithackergotchi
<highvoltage> so you can just add /+edithackergotchi to the end of your team page URL to specify that pic.
<mhz> highvoltage: duh! ok, thanks. I never though og it as a hackergotchi
<mhz> thankx
<highvoltage> np.
<mhz> highvoltage: any news on drupal?
<highvoltage> we have go-ahead, I need to e-mail to request tracker to have it installed.
<highvoltage> this december turned out more hectic than i thought it would.
<highvoltage> we'll probably have a new website launch with the new release.
<highvoltage> in the meantime, the drupal site will live somewhere like proto.edubuntu.org
<highvoltage> and then we can all add content and make it nice for launch.
<mhz> highvoltage: thx
<mhz> highvoltage: and this is also hackergotchi? https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-website
<highvoltage> the website screenshot? yes it is.
<mhz> oh, it will be simpler the,
<mhz> then.
<mhz> kjcole: are you admin of wiki LoCo team?
<kjcole> mhz, nope.  Just the leader of the DC LoCo.
<mhz> kjcole: and do you have a LoCo setting per State?
<mhz> I mean (wiki, irc, ML, etc?)
<kjcole> mhz, not yet.  (If I understand you correctly.)  I tried negotiating with the powers regarding a consistent name and need to figure out what they want to do.
<mhz> kjcole: and what do you prefer? splitted IRC, ML, wiki? all together as one big US team?
<kjcole> mhz, I keep coming back to the idea that "local" means "face-to-face"  I think if you want to reach non-technical people, (teachers, students, community activists, and just average citizens) you don't tell them "Well, if you want help, join this mailing list and get on IRC, then look at every wiki page..."
<kjcole> If you can, you tell them to come to an InstallFest, or a pizza gathering, or something close to them where they can meet people.
<mhz> kjcole: I agree. My idea is that all regions in Chile (states for you in US) should work coordinated at just one wiki, IRC and ML. And each local activity should be managed by each group of people at that particular region
<kjcole> mhz, I don't care how it's done as long as it can be easily reached by newcomers.  To me that means either (a) list all contacts, communities, whatever or (b) set up a predictable way to guess what the team closest to a person might be named.
<mhz> kjcole: i see.
<kjcole> mhz, I haven't spent as much time working out the details with smurf and others as I should have.
<mhz> kjcole: ok, I was wondering because I am planning the UbuntuTour in Chile (planning = seeing how the heck I am going to do it with no resources, just happy faces)
<lucasvo> kjcole: so what can I do for edubuntu cookbook atm?
<lucasvo> without working bzr
<kjcole> lucasvo, you've already successfully gotten the branch...  Have you skimmed most of the tuxLab Cookbook?  
<lucasvo> kjcole: no, I can't update your changes
<lucasvo> *merge
<kjcole> lucasvo, don't worry about that.  If you did the "branch" you can work and commit locally, and at some future point, push, then I do the merge on your push.
<kjcole> lucasvo, at least that is the way that I understand things are supposed to work.
<lucasvo> but, I need your changes to get it running properly :D
<lucasvo> and I don't want to do double work
<kjcole> lucasvo, periodically, you can "pull" to keep up with what is on the "server".
<mhz> good point
<lucasvo> kjcole: no I can't 
<kjcole> lucasvo, or am I misunderstanding you (or misunderstanding bzr)?
<mhz> kjcole: however, pulling to local is good but he can see he's done something you just did :)
<lucasvo> because I made copy of "the server" and then branched
<lucasvo> branching doesn't work
<kjcole> lucasvo ???  It seemed to work for us.  Push didn't but both branch and pull did.  (Jeff's been pulling to his laptop every weekend.)
<mhz> kjcole: what is there was a list of to do's people can 'own' so they work on that part only and then commit it to revision
<mhz> ?
<kjcole> the sequence of events: "bzr branch http://pchb1f.gallaudet.edu/~kjcole/Edubuntu/Cookbook/"  then each time you want to pull, "cd Cookbook ; bzr pull http:..."
<ogra> lucasvo, short pong ?
<lucasvo> ogra: resolved
<ogra> ah, fine 
<lucasvo> for now... ;-)
<kjcole> lucasvo, mhz I'm lost.  I think I'm misunderstanding things.
<mhz> kjcole: or maybe I am lost?
<ogra> kjcole, can i help ? 
<mhz> 'it's the end of the world as we know it' :D
<kjcole> mhz, this is why we need locos: to guide the lost sheep. ;-)
<mhz> hehehe
<kjcole> ogra, people want to help with the cookbook, and if I understood how bzr works, folks can branch, then pull to keep up with what the main branch is, and do local changes and commits til I get the push side going.  Right?
<kjcole> ogra, and talking on #bzr and #launchpad leads me to believe that day is coming very soon.
<ogra> as i said, do all your merging locally, people have to put up their branche for you to pull and merge them ...
<ogra> you are maintinaing the master branch and push the merged stuff to your online repo ...
<kjcole> ogra, so I should pull theirs and merge, not they should push and I should merge?
<ogra> yes
<kjcole> ogra, gotcha.
<ogra> you work locally on your home machine ...
<ogra> they put up their branches, do zthe commits locally on their machines and push the changes to *their* branches
<ogra> you just do a: bzr missing url-of-lucasvos-online-branch
<ogra> an see whats new for you
<kjcole> ogra (this morning I had misunderstood.  I thought you were saying that I should merge, but that everyone should push, but I think I'm getting a clearer picture now.)
<ogra> or if you got bzrk, even betterm do a: bzr viz url-of-lucasvos-online-branch and check his changes
<ogra> if you like them, merge them in your branch ... then do a push to the master branch 
<kjcole> ogra, I got bzrk (and bzr-tools) but haven't touched them.
<ogra> try bzr viz ;) its cool 
<ogra> it shows you the changes to every single file, where a branch was split out and where it got merged again
<kjcole> ogra, bzr viz or bzrk viz?
<ogra> bzr viz 
<ogra> either run it in a branch locally or with an url as option
<kjcole> ogra, ok. (Again, I read too fast and miss stuff.)
<ogra> bzrk is very helpful to maintain changes and branches ...
<ogra> bzrk == package name, bzr viz == the command to call bzrk
<kjcole> ogra, Ah.  This has been a very educational three channels I've been watching. (here, #bzr and #launchpad)
<kjcole> Time to turn it all into a wiki page somewhere. ;-)
<ogra> launchpad will add the option to maintian your online branches to your account ...
<ogra> and launchpad supermirror will enable you to maintain the master branches
<ogra> so in the future you only have to say launchpad   theyou want to merge branches from others :)
<ogra> s/theyou/that you/
<ogra> and its done with a mouseclick :)
<ogra> the functionallity of bzrk will be included in launchpad, so you can see the branches and merges 
<kjcole> Ogra, will Santa have that ready by Christmas? ;-)  Sounds pretty cool. 
<ogra> no idea when its ready ...
<ogra> we just had a company wide email from mark where he insists we all should take our time to relax to be fit for 2006 ;)
<ogra> and he wants to hear stories from our holidays that dont involve computers :)
<kjcole> Ogra, lifeless was saying some of it's coming in January.  
<kjcole> Ogra, he's a "wise man" which is a good thing to be at christmas time.
<ogra> yup
<ogra> he's the best boss i can think of :)
<kjcole> ogra, However, for me, I hope to do a lot of work (not necessarily computer work) during the holidays and then relax while everyone else is working. Not only does it work out better for me, I can be smug.
<kjcole> ogra, ;-)
<ogra> :)
<kjcole> Well, I'm going to run along now, I think.
<ogra> wow, mhz_shower takes his laptop everywhere :)
<ogra> he even sometimes cooks it :)
<mhz_shower> ogra: yes
<mhz_shower> did you see the photos of it?
<ogra> *giggle*
<ogra> nope
<ogra> is it melted from cooking ? 
<mhz_shower> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/MauricioHernandez/EdubuntuRelatedPhotos
<mhz_shower> ogra: hehe
<mhz_shower> i haven't got any photos when I am cooking, doing dishes, taking a bath or even ... well, let's say.. "i am at the private library"
<mhz_shower> but soon i will, as my mom-in-law gave my wife a real decent camera for xmas.
<mhz_shower> I usually take the laptop with me everywhere
<mhz_shower> that's why I want a libretto so badly
<mhz_shower> (less than 10 inches)
#edubuntu 2005-12-27
<ogra> i just got my yearly bonus ... tugether with my saved money it will be enough for a fat 12" ibook ... or a small 12" powerbook, not sure yet 
<ogra> but 6h battery power are soo cool :)
<lucasvo> small 12"  is better
<ogra> just for the metal case ? 
<lucasvo> I had an ibook 12" and the battery really is amazing 
<lucasvo> not only 
<ogra> nvidia is odd ...
<ogra> i dint really need 200Mhz more ...
<lucasvo> I think ibook doen't has pcmcia, pb does
<ogra> hmm, thats an argument
<ogra> but the only one so far ...
<lucasvo> and a reasonable
<lucasvo> since airport isn't supported by linux
<ogra> being not able to use sleep because of nvidia is a counter argument
<mhz_shower> ogra: ibook are even harder to open
<ogra> there are nice usb wlan cards 
<lucasvo> you don't need the nv module, do you?
<lucasvo> wait for Intel :D
<ogra> i use the nv module on my amd64 lappie ...
<ogra> but that doesnt matter 
<ogra> sleep doesnt work with either of the modules
<lucasvo> why not?
<mhz_shower> ogra: last time i tried to open an ibook, almost broke the plastic stuff
<ogra> the spec isnt open enough to make the HW work
<ogra> you cant access the right registers if you dont know the addresses
<ogra> so sleep will never work with nvidia no matter which module you use
<mhz_shower> ogra: pbook also have this super keyboard that lights based on how dark your room is
<ogra> but i know it works with ati cards
<ogra> yes, but thats all eye candy only ...
<ogra> pcmcia *is* a pro argument ... but the only one i could find so far
<mhz_shower> breaking the plastic is no eye candy to me :)
<ogra> why should i break it... if i own and use it, i'll know how to use it right to not break ir
<ogra> *it
<mhz_shower> ibook is heavier than pbook
<ogra> minimally
<ogra> (my current one weights 4.5kg, everything is like feathers compared to this)
<mhz_shower> ogra: my ex ibook was happily living with me. One day I wanted to open the case to replace a part... oops, i didnt dare
<ogra> ah, k screwdriver involved :)
<mhz_shower> then, when i had the pbook, it all was simple
<lucasvo> mhz_shower: how is libretto linux support?
<mhz_shower> lucasvo: i have not tried one yet :(   but I have heard it is decent
<ogra> \sh_away has a r200 from canonicals laptop testing stock ... 
<lucasvo> http://www.linux-magazin.de/Artikel/ausgabe/1999/03/Libretto/libretto.html
<ogra> its hard to install (no cdrom) but one of the coolest lappies i know
<lucasvo> what is the brand/
<ogra> toshiba libretto
<mhz_shower> ogra: this fujitsu had no cd rom either, and came with Xp :(
<lucasvo> http://www.qandr.org/quentin/writings/libretto/
<ogra> but 3500 are to much for a laptop 
<mhz_shower> but your LTSP gave me good setting to use Netinstall
<lucasvo> mhz_shower: isn't there a dock with CD-Rom?
<ogra> even if its really light and cool
<mhz_shower> lucasvo: for which ?
<ogra> the r200 is about 800g
<mhz_shower> me wants that!
<ogra> i also had a look at the dell X1 ....
<ogra> even cooler ...
<ogra> 10" widescreen 
<ogra> but 1280x800
<mhz_shower> but?
<mhz_shower> is that a but?
<ogra> 2000
<ogra> thats the only but
<ogra> my magic border fro laptops is at 1500, i'll never pay more for a lappie
* mhz uses 2nd hand laptops only
<lucasvo> http://www.holme.com/toshiba-libretto-u100-mini-notebook.htm < cool
<ogra> i had to many odd experiences with second hand ones ...
<mhz> me too
<ogra> oh, i just see, the r200 is a protege, no libretto
<ogra> http://www.holme.com/toshiba-portege-r200-notebook.htm
<mhz> but after I got robbed 2 laptops... 
* mhz only likes 10 inches or smaller
<ogra> hmm, and its 400g heavier than i was told
<mhz> ogra: arkan0x has a portege, BTW
<ogra> a r200 ?
<arkan0x> 3490ct
<mhz> ogra: how about sharp?
<ogra> nothing beats 6h battery power yet 
<ogra> and i need a powerpc for edubuntu testing
<lucasvo> ogra: I can lend you one
<ogra> so it will most likely become a ibook or a pbook
<lucasvo> ogra: an iBook 12"
<ogra> nah, i'll buy one, rather keep it and help testing :)
<mhz> ogra: i'd be very happy with this one http://emperorlinux.com/mfgr/sharp/meteor/
<lucasvo> ogra: or you can buy an old G4 PowerMac for 600.- CHF
<lucasvo> ogra: were quite good
<ogra> lucasvo, i can buy a iMac for 160
<ogra> enough for testing
<lucasvo> ogra: our school just bought G5 powermac's
<ogra> nice :)
<lucasvo> ogra: you really really only need it for testing?
<lucasvo> my school has too much $$$$ 
<ogra> nope, i'm travellin a lot since i work for canonical ... i need a laptop with as long battery power as i can get 
<ogra> i always envy the people around me if my battery is out after 2h
<ogra> but amd64 is simply no laptop processor :)
<lucasvo> mhz: working on the doc team?
<mhz> tried to
<mhz> my xml sucks
<lucasvo> mhz: just rember <img /> and not <img>
<lucasvo> :D
<lucasvo> it is normal html
<mhz> my xml sucks
<mhz> hehhe, thx
<lucasvo> and <br> is wrong
<lucasvo> it should mean <br />
<mhz> my only skills for docing is moin
<mhz> lucasvo: in moin, [[BR] ]  is enough
<lucasvo> :D
<lucasvo> one could export it to moin
<lucasvo> but moin is not good tor LaTex export
<mhz> lucasvo: there are ways
<mhz> yup, probably u r right
<lucasvo> ogra: why do you travel a lot?
<lucasvo> ogra: where do you go?
<ogra> in the last 12 months i was in mataro (near barcelona), sydney, london, bergen (.no) and montreal ... and additionally at a lot different places in germany ...
<ogra> in januray/february we'll meet in london again and inbetween i have to attend some conferences in germany
<ogra> sydney was the worst ... i'm a stron smoker and 27h flight are really hard :)
<ogra> (with a stop in singapore after 18h)
<ogra> and i suspect i'll travel a lot more, edubuntu needs promotion and i'm the guy who knows most about it
<ogra> aslo mark has a lot of requests for collaboration with other edu projects where i'll hve to attend meetings next year  i guess
<ogra> so my travelling time over the year will rise ...
<tclong> Greetings from Arkansas in the US!
* ogra waves back from bermany
<ogra> heh
<ogra> germany indeed
<tclong> It sounds like you stay busy, ogra
<ogra> i am :)
<ogra> but currently i'll have to develop the next edubuntu first, then promotion will start :)
<lucasvo> ogra: stop smoking, then you don't have problems with flying anymore :D
<tclong> I installed ubuntu on my laptop last week and I've been very impressed with it. Now I'm trying to install edubuntu on my son's (6yo) computer.
<ogra> yes, but then i'll get an angry guy :)
<lucasvo> ogra: why?
<ogra> tclong, make sure to read the wikipage mentionedin the topic :)
<lucasvo> ogra: smoking isn't relaxing
<lucasvo> tclong: for e.g. you may not want to install ltsp, so use workstation as a boot option
<ogra> lucasvo, right... dont start it, if you havent ...
<lucasvo> ogra: and if you started, stop
<ogra> thats the hard part ...
<ogra> ...and you need to really wnat it ...
<ogra> *want
<lucasvo> ogra: mark should send you to some freakin village in india where the next store is 100km away...
<ogra> i'd find a way :)
<lucasvo> ogra: no, because you don't want to?
<lucasvo> ogra: ever tried to stop?
<ogra> nope ... because i know i'd fail ... because i dont really want to ...
<lucasvo> my grandparents were upset because since last week it is prohibited to smoke in trains
<lucasvo> ogra: imagine what pc you could buy whith the money spent on cigarettes
<ogra> thats odd ... in germany we have at least half a wagon left for smokers ...
<ogra> i could be rich :) i know 
<lucasvo> you should try !
<ogra> i probably will ... one day ...
<tclong> thnx ogra!
* lucasvo is off for bed
<ogra> no, i think i *must* one day ... but thats not yet ...
<lucasvo> haha
<lucasvo> like in 01/01/06 ? 
<ogra> nope
<ogra> never ever will you see mee making such statements ...
<lucasvo> good
<lucasvo> but still you should stop
<ogra> yup...
<ogra> i'm surel my health will force me once ...
<lucasvo> be a man, be powerful, stop smoking! ;-)
<ogra> i stopped worse stuff in my life to prove how powerful i am, but that doesnt belong into this channel ;)
<lucasvo> you don't have to prove, you have to be
<ogra> lucasvo, you wont convince me ... 
<lucasvo> ogra: I won't die of lung cancer
<ogra> thats something only my inner voiceeeeeeeeeeeecan ...
<ogra> oops
<lucasvo> maybe ^^ this was your inner voice :D
* ogra kicks his keyboard
<lucasvo> ogra: feel free to take me a long to your edubuntu world promotion tour ... 
<ogra> hehe, i doubt it will be a world tour
<lucasvo> maybe asia or africa would be interesting :D
<ogra> but if all goes fine i'll be in bruxelles for fosdem ...
<ogra> i have no plans beyond that yet ... mark forwarded me some invitations for german events ...
<ogra> the worls tour stuff is done by jdub and mark ... edubuntu inst as popular as ubuntu :)
<ogra> s/inst/isnt
<tclong> you could send me to Ireland, Italy and Australia. I wouldn't argue. My wife wouldn't be very happy about it, unless she and the kids could come too. ;)
<ogra> i thought the same when i started working for canonical ... but travelling more than every 2 monts makes you tired of travelling...
<tclong> that's why they should bring more people on board at canonical (I'm job hunting, by the way ;) so that the traveling and publicizing could be delegated out more and there could be a better balance between travel/promotion and development. eh?
<ogra> heh, yes ...
<ogra> but its nice to see your colleagues from time to time
<ogra> tclong, we're looking for a QA specialist
<ogra> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/employment/document_view
<tclong>  I don't think that I would qualify experience wise, though I am trainable and like solving technical issues.
<tclong> But I'll keep checking back
<tclong> I guess I have had some QA experience as a network administrator, but nothing formal.
<ogra> trying to apply wont do any harm i guess ;) 
<tclong> tis true
<tclong> my wife says that too. heh!
<Lord_Athur> hi there
<Lord_Athur> de ubuntu a edubuntu
<tclong> edubuntu loaded and resume/references submitted to hr. WOO-HOO!
<tclong> now to get wireless working in edubuntu
<Lord_Athur> bye
<tclong> adiosarino
<Yagisan> evening all
<irvin> evening
<Yagisan> last nights ltsp based dvd ripping cluster experiment was successful :)
<Yagisan> you need thin clients with at least 96MB of ram, and l-r-m uninstalled
<Yagisan> a p2 300MHz will do about 1.5fps, duron 850MHz about 6fps, and an amd64 (64bit mode) 2000MHz about 19fps
<Yagisan> if I find a power supply I can add a k6/2 300MHz to the clients.
<Yagisan> ogra: my patch suck ? http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21370
<ogra> who said that ?
<Yagisan> ogra: I was wondering if you checked it, just wanted to know if you liked it, or thought it was crap.
<ogra> it could be more elegant, but its a start :)
<Yagisan> ogra: I'd have rather made it use a config file, but I can't access outside of the chroot
<ogra> so use it inside the chroot ;)
<Yagisan> ogra: and I didn't check to see if /etc is overwritten inside the chroot
<ogra> it isnt
* MrMazda waves to ogra and Yagisan
<Yagisan> ogra: OK. I'll change it to source a ltsp-fstab file from /etc in the chroot a bit later tonight
* ogra waves back
* Yagisan waves back to MrMazda
<Yagisan> ogra: I noticed some irony on some of my bug reports with patches on malone today
<Yagisan> ogra: I'm a member of MOTUmedia, and I sent the patches, they been assigned to, yep MOTUmedia. It was mildly amusing to me.
<ogra> heh
<Yagisan> ogra: did you want me to write up my notes for the dvd ripping cluster. It might be useful for getting local apps working
<Yagisan> ogra: as I run transcode locally on the nodes
<ogra> sure, why not :)
<Yagisan> ogra: was there a spec for local apps ?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> not in focus for this release
<Yagisan> excellent, then I'm not just incapable of finding one.
<Yagisan> odd question, but can I boot memtest86 over the network ?
<Yagisan> ok. I can take the silence as nobody tried booting memtest86 over the network.
<ogra> might or might not work :)
<Lord_Athur> hi
<Yagisan> G'day Lord_Athur
<Yagisan> ogra: can I dcc you a tiny debdiff to look at ?
<Lord_Athur> hi Yagisan 
<ogra> if it gets through ...
<Lord_Athur> ogra, I recived the mail of the woman that sees the resquest of CDs
<jsgotangco> g'day all
<Lord_Athur> and she told me that edubuntu is not giving CDs now
<ogra> Lord_Athur, JaneW is here
<Yagisan> ogra: is that more elegant ?
<ogra> Yagisan, after the meeting ...
<Lord_Athur> who is JaneW?
<Lord_Athur> jajjaa
<Lord_Athur> JaneW, hi
<Lord_Athur> I'm Alejandro Len Vega
<Yagisan> Sorry ogra, didn't now a meeting was on
<Yagisan> s/now/know
<JaneW> Hi Alejandro, was amuricio able to help you?
<Lord_Athur> yes
<Lord_Athur> he was
<JaneW> great :)
<Lord_Athur> :D
<Yagisan> jsgotangco, what's up ?
<guim> Hi Mauricio, JaneW and others! 
<guim>  i am following with lots interest the last dscussion in mailing list
<Yagisan> mhz: feeling better today ?
<mhz> not really.. I have just realized Tour won't be possible unless I get a job (normal under salary basis job)
<mhz> so, i am organizing agenda to go and ask for a job, Yagisan 
<mhz> at least until March-April
<mhz> (the time Edubuntu Tour should start)
<mhz> guim: hi
<guim> :)
<Yagisan> mhz: Good luck. I need to whip myself to find some more customers. I haven't had many recently :(
<mhz> Yagisan: I'll be off for about 6 to 7 hours, today.
<guim> we are soon going to look for someone... in Belgium !
<mhz> Yagisan: good luck to you too
<mhz> guim: good! I live in Chile :)
<guim> yes.. I knew ;-)
<guim> don't want to spend some days here ? ;-)
<Yagisan> mhz: thanks. I think I'll need to do some pc repair work to tide me over christmas.
<Yagisan> quick poll: anyone other then me working on christmas ?
<mhz> Sure, but about 90% of my savings have been 'saved' for Edubuntu Chilean Tour, so I can't just afford to go there, guim ;)
<mhz> Yagisan: me
<guim> yes, sure
<Yagisan> wow, two more then I expected
<mhz> Yagisan: me.. well, not sure yet, but surely, I'll spend some hours in IRC
* mhz going off
* Yagisan will be printing advertising leaflets
<guim> Yagisan : I will have 2 weeks off now ... sorry ;-)
<Yagisan> catch you later mhz
<Yagisan> guim: I don't think I'll get any holidays before 2007~2008 at the earliest (well, not without scoring a massive contract anyway)
<guim> ...
<guim> where do you work? url?
<Yagisan> guim: I'm self employed. I have a mockup of the general design of my site here www.eyagiconsulting.com
<guim> ok
<guim> i take a quick look
<Yagisan> guim: a real website *should* be up an running soon
<guim> ok :)
<Yagisan> guim: once I find something I'm happy with, and that IE users can use
<Yagisan> guim: In a nutshell, I'm a security specalist
<guim> ok
<Yagisan> guim: which is why I have an ugly site with no scripting at all ;)
<guim> :)
<guim> did you test somes CMS?
<guim> did'nt like any?
<Yagisan> guim: going through them. I've decided to not use an wiki like stuff though
<Yagisan> s/to not/not to
<Yagisan> s/an/any
<Yagisan> guim: you use edubuntu ?
<guim> no, just ubuntu for now
<guim> i work in a belgian researcher center,
<guim> and suggested to integrate Claroline in edubuntu
<guim> but we have .deb package yet :-( 
<guim> Yagisan,  I've decided to not use an wiki like stuff though <-- I though about things like joomla! or others
<Yagisan> ok. I try to get ltsp to do funky things here.
<Yagisan> guim: my first preference is for something I can 'sudo aptitude install'
<Yagisan> guim: failing that, something I can package myself
<guim> you are used to package applications?
<jsgotangco> JaneW, did you see the latest email to edubuntu-devel? now THAT's a signature
<JaneW> jsgotangco: huh? from who?
<Yagisan> guim: some things. I maintain unoffical packages here http://eyagi.bpa.nu/~jamie/doomsday.en.html
<jsgotangco> JaneW, oh crap sorry it was for -doc
<jsgotangco> heh
<Yagisan> guim: I consider myself a newbie at it
* JaneW goes
* Yagisan notes he really should update that page
<guim> ok
<Yagisan> guim: If you have packaging issues, I can probably help you with most problems.
<guim> I sent a mail on the edubuntu-devel ML today
* Yagisan prepares to backport qemu to see if he can finish off multi-arch support
<guim> we have our PHP/Mysql based LMS
* Yagisan isn't subscribed to edubuntu-devel
<guim> for which I would like to have the .deb package
<guim> okay
<guim> for claroline (http://www.claroline.net)
<guim> as said in the mail, i started the job some months ago, but i habe nver done that, and don't have much time to do it
<Yagisan> guim: is that like moodle ?
<guim> yes, very close
<guim> that was actuall ythe discussion in the mail
<guim> edubuntu has moodle, but claroline would be nice too ;-)
<Yagisan> guim: It might be a good idea to 'apt-get source moodle' and see how that was packaged
<guim> that is what i did
<ogra> nooo
<ogra> moodel is very badly packaged ...
<Yagisan> heh - that got his attention
<guim> but the moodle package is very very "poor" in a sense that it doesn't really install
<ogra> thats why we dont have it on the CD :)
<ogra> huh ? 
<ogra> it did during my testing for breezy
<guim> ogra, the moodle package just send the user to the url ton coninute the web install
<guim> right?
<ogra> for the local setup, yes
<ogra> nearly all php based CMS packages do that
<guim> php/mysql application done with a web installer are not easy to change into .deb installer
<guim> yes
<guim> so do we...
<Yagisan> guim: ok, anyway look at how moodle is packaged. See that. That is apparently an example of how not to do it ;)
<guim> ;)
<guim> it could at least be a good start anyway
<guim> to do at least what they do
<ogra> but omit the wwwconfig-common stuff for DB setup or you will suffer that same desiaes moodle suffers :) 
<guim> thanks for the tips
<guim> is there actually any good php/mysql application that is also well packaged for debian? that would be a reference
<ogra> probably drupal, havent looked at it yet ...
<guim> mmm
<Yagisan> ajmitch might know
<ogra> mediawiki might be ok too, it has other issues
<Yagisan> IIRC he is the php guru
<ogra> but the packaging of the 1.5 line should be fine
<guim> i have been looking at its architecture some days ago, but didn't look at that the installation process
* Yagisan hopes he isn't mixing names up again
* ogra is off for some shopping
<guim> thans, i note that
<guim> thanks ogra
<Yagisan> bye ogra
<Yagisan> ogra: I can't add support for ppc clients on amd64/i386 servers, and i386 guests on ppc servers until if/when qemu has NPTL support.
<Yagisan> ogra: spoke to some devs in #qemu about it, so it would be dapper + 1 maybe
<Yagisan> ogra: I'll prepare some anticipatory patches as I get time, but that assumes qemu upstream (or a coding guru) fixes qemu.
<Yagisan> ogra: of course the alternative would be to build ubuntu without NPTL support, but I don't see that happening before hell freezes over, as IIRC that would break amd64 for starters
<Yagisan> Goodnight all
<Lord_Athur> hi
<jelkner> ogra: oliver, are you here?
<jelkner> ogra: oliver? hello oliver...
<Lord_Athur> where does the aptitude program put the downloaded files .deb?
<MrMazda>  /var/cache/apt or something like that
<Lord_Athur> ok
<Lord_Athur> thanks
<Lord_Athur> hi
#edubuntu 2005-12-28
<Nerdz> Does edubuntu use the same disk space as Ubuntu?
<teacher> Has any one had luck with sending sound to the thin clients
<lucasvo> hi
<MrMazda> http://www.seagatemaxtor.com/
<Yagisan> G'day lucasvo
<Yagisan> ogra: was my new patch "elegant" ?
<Lord_Athur> hi
<mhz> re
<jsgotangco> mhz, feliz navidad!
<mhz> jsgotangco: gracias, Feliz navidad a ti tambien!
<mhz> jsgotangco: can i make you a tech admin question regarding DNS?
<jsgotangco> i can try
<mhz> okis
<mhz> jsgotangco: I had 2 servers (A and B). On A, I was hosting email and wiki. On B, email (same @domain.cl but this was smtp and pop3 for a small group of people working on that specific server)
<mhz> jsgotangco: so, I moved wiki to server C, and edited DNS on server B to start redirecting calls to C.
<mhz> jsgotangco: Today, after 3 days I moded it, i only receive mails but calls for url still get no answer
<mhz> however, if I do visit the subdomain URL, I get to the wiki
<mhz> but that doesn't happen when I visit domain.
<mhz> just 'page not found'
<mhz> Is it normal, after 3 days?
<Yagisan> mhz: Some dns servers can cache the old IP for you to 5 days
<Yagisan> mhz: have you tried something like nslookup your.url.here
<mhz> Yagisan: oh, nope
* mhz trying
<Yagisan> mhz: btw, what is the domain ?
<Yagisan> mhz: eg for me I get this
<Yagisan> Name:   www.eyagiconsulting.com
<Yagisan> Address: 203.17.36.111
<Yagisan> that is the right address for me (at least for today), is yours the right address ?
<mhz> Yagisan: I get 2 paragraphs, latter is Non-authoritative
<Yagisan> mhz: yes, that is ok - is the address correct
<mhz> yup
<jsgotangco> you can ask your isp to trigger a dns refresh
<Yagisan> mhz: does http://the.ip.here work ?
<jsgotangco> brb
<Yagisan> mhz: you can pm me the address to check if you like
<mhz> okis, i am trying
<mhz> Yagisan: nope, sorry. IP is not right
<brother_of_jared> Hello?
<Lord_Athur> hi
<MrMazda> is there any short cut (easy way) to remove all the CJK font packages?
<lucasvo> hi ogra_ibook 
<ogra_ibook> heyy
<lucasvo> holidays finally!
<lucasvo> no school  :D
<ogra_ibook> same here
<lucasvo> ogra_ibook: you decided against the powerbook?
<lucasvo> is it possible to use an iBook for ltsp client?
<littlepaul> :)
<ogra_ibook> i think so
<ogra_ibook> havent tried yet
<ogra_ibook> the pbook has no pcmcia btw
<lucasvo> hm, so only the 15" :(
<lucasvo> was kjcole around some time?
<ogra_ibook> and only having a metal case wanst worth 500 extra i found
<ogra_ibook> *wasnt
<lucasvo> ogra_ibook: you should buy a apple care protection plan
<ogra_ibook> no idea, i was away most of the day
<lucasvo> it's the money worth
<lucasvo> 3 years instead of 1 is much better
<ogra_ibook> i dont mind 
<lucasvo> ogra_ibook: bah,
<lucasvo> mine broke after 13 months, logic board broken, repair: 1000.- CHF, a new one: 1300.-
<ogra_ibook> i rathher buy HW for the money and in 1 year i'll go for something new anyway i guess
<MrMazda> is there any short cut (easy way) to remove all the CJK font packages?
#edubuntu 2005-12-29
<lululinux> where does Gnome hide "start another X session"?
<lululinux> Error: Failed to run /usr/bin/update-manager as user root: Wrong password.
<lululinux> Error: Failed to run /usr/bin/update-manager as user root: Wrong password.
<lululinux> where does Gnome hide "start another X session"?
<ball> How do I decide between Ubuntu and Edubuntu?
<zakame> er, depends on your intended use?
<|Marc-go|> Hello All .... I have a few question about edubuntu...
<|Marc-go|> I have just started looking at Edubuntu and can only find and install CD.... Is there a Live CD?
<zakame> not yet for breezy, but iirc there's a test live cd for dapper
<ball> zakame: put on student workstations and possibly on my own laptop.
<ball> hello |Marc-go|
<zakame> though I suspect one can do with the breezy edubuntu installer's casper-udeb d-i component, but I haven't tried that
<|Marc-go|> Hello. Ball
<ball> Is edubuntu always used ltsp-style?
<ball> hello tdscott2
<tdscott2> hello
<zakame> hi tdscott2 
<tdscott2> Hello to you also... so, are we talking edubuntu?
<ball> Yes, I'm thinking about considering the idea of evaluating it.
<tdscott2> I'm using it right now. Just installed it about an hour ago and I'm not sure I like it.  It was really cool at first, but the more I play with it the less I like it.
<zakame> tdscott2: hm, what do you don't like about it? :)
<ball> tdscott2: that's not a good sign then.
<tdscott2> Well first of all it took me 20 minutes to figure out how to do anything with root permissions
<ball> tdscott2: does it come with /bin/sh ?
<tdscott2> I installed Flash since my kids like to go ti disney.com and found out that sound doesn't seem to work
<tdscott2> yeah it does
<tdscott2> my system sound works fine but not with flash
<tdscott2> I also installed webmin thinking I could do some tweaking in there.  That worked until I rebooted and now it no longer seems to be installed
<ball> Is edubuntu something I buy a CD for, or just download and burn?
<ball> tdscott2: when you reboot, the world ends.
<tdscott2> I just downloaded it and burned it.  I was only one cd
<ball> Does it come with joe?
<tdscott2> what the heck is that?
<zakame> joe, the editor?
<tdscott2> dunno
<ball> yes
<tdscott2> I'm a vi guy myself
<ball> joe's own editor
<ball> I use vi just long enough to get joe compiled...it's a CP/M thing ;-)
<tdscott2> I hear ya
<tdscott2> The whole interface is really clean, and it's friggen fast on this PII 450 
<ball> That's about the vintage of most of my machines
<tdscott2> I just don't think that I should have to spend 8 hours making it work.  call me lazy
<ball> (at home, not at the school)
<ball> So, what's needed to build a "terminal" that will work with edubuntu?
<tdscott2> I'm not sure what you mean there.  I just used the already installed Gnome terminal.  su doen't work because it's been disabled.  That's what took me so long to figure out.  I ended up using sudo to be able to do anything.
<ball> tdscott2: right, but you were using it on the same machine it's installed on.  Apparently it has some facility to work with X terminals (or something)
<tdscott2> Oh I see what you mean.  Yeah I read something about that too.  Maybe I'll head into the other room and try to figure that out
<zakame> tdscott2: sudo is the way to go, not su
<ball> heh
* ball would be more comfortable with su
<ball> (I root, therefore I am)
<tdscott2> Yeah I'd never used sudo before but it seemed to work just fine
<tdscott2> another weird thing was the whole user creation at the end of the install.  It had me create only one user that I found out later has some root permissions.  very strange
<zakame> well one can always `sudo bash' and do root stuff
<ball> sudo /bin/sh hopefully
<tdscott2> Weird, now the sound is working for flash and I didn't change anything...
<ball> hello arkan0x
<arkan0x> hi ball  !
<tdscott2> sup arkan0x?
* ball stumbles across the FAQ
<arkan0x> proving script translator of google
<arkan0x> by google services
<arkan0x> xD
<ball> possibly the most deficient FAQ I've ever read, that ;-)
<tdscott2> AMEN
<ball> Is there a user's mailing list for edubuntu?
<tdscott2> Well I've decided that I'm going back to Mandriva at least for now for the kids.  I'll try again in April at the next release.  Later
<ball> bye tdscott2
<ball> I'm thinking of using NetBSD instead.
<ball> ...it's nice and configurable.
<ball> (and I grok it)
<ball> Edubuntu has a nice GEM-like file browser from the looks of things though
<ball> ...perhaps that's part of GNOME
<zakame> ah, nautilus
* ball writes that down
<ball> Where did I read about edubuntu's terminal server feature?
<ball> (and where can I learn what's required of the terminals?)
<zakame> ltsp?
* ball nods
<ball> Anything special for the terminals if they're to be used with edubuntu?
<ball> zakame: ooh look, k12ltsp.org
<zakame> ball: yup :)
<ball> http://loptech.blogspot.com/  <- my take on edubuntu
<ball> goodnight all
<thoand> hello
<thoand> my teacher is interessted in giving edubuntu to his students, but the edubuntu setup does not use DHCP, is there a version, wich does?
<Yagisan> thoand: edubuntu should use dhcp
<Yagisan> thoand: Are you using the live cd ?
<thoand> no, I tried the install CD in my vmware
<thoand> and then it asks for IP
<thoand> Gateway
<thoand> DNS and so on
<thoand> the first thing I thought ws teachers... but some minutes ago I tested it myself
<Yagisan> thoand: when you put that cd in, type workstation for the type of install
<Yagisan> thoand: the default install for that is as a server
<Yagisan> thoand: where IT will be a dhcp server
<thoand> ok, I'll try
<Yagisan> no worries, and merry christmas :)
<Yagisan> only 1 hour and 30 minutes to go
<thoand> what is then?
<Yagisan> thoand: christmas here
<Yagisan> thoand: my kids are already looking for their presents
<thoand> ah I see, you mean in 1 hour and 30 minutes is distribution of (Christmas) presents?
<thoand> looked up this in my dict, sounds stupid ;)
<Yagisan> thoand: It is nearly midnight here. It doesn't sound stupid, my wife is not a native english speaker either.
<thoand> midnight to the 25th?
<thoand> in germany everybody sais "it is Chrismas today", but it is the 24th here
<thoand> Christmas Eve
<Yagisan> thoand: It is Sat Dec 24 10:44:04pm here I am. It's already christmas in new zealand
<thoand> Yagisan: in the wrong german understanding yes, but it is good t hear that there are some who know the difference
<thoand> regarding to the workstation installation, wouldn't it be better to make this the default, because someone who wants to install it on a server should be more well-versed
<thoand> and the hint for entering "server" stands at the boot prompt
<thoand> I have to go for lunch now, brb
<Yagisan> thoand: ogra is the person to talk about that, but IIRC the reasoning server is defaults, is that the initial version is targeted at schools
<Yagisan> thoand: and is supposed to be easy for a non-technical person to deploy a whole classroom in a short period of time
<thoand> maybe it is a good soluution to provide two versions
<Yagisan> thoand: there *are* two versions on the cd, the default server install, and a standalone workstation install. Perhaps a nice menu would be helpful
<thoand> I understood that, but when someone have to enter text this is a barrier
<thoand> a menu might be the best solution
<thoand> but actually the workstation option is even not named at the prompt (AFAIK)
<Yagisan> thoand: Did you check out http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes ?
<lucasvo> Yagisan: query
<zakame> hi all, merry christmas!
<ogra_ibook> hey, merry christmas !
<lucasvo> merry christmas :D
<zakame> hi ogra_ibook ! :D
<Yagisan> Merry Christmas all
<ogra_ibook> :)
<zakame> I've good news: by next year another school here in Daet will be using Edubuntu :)
<ogra_ibook> yay
<ogra_ibook> thats a nice chriatmas present
<ogra_ibook> oops
<ogra_ibook> *christmas
<zakame> yeah, iirc 70 PCs + one ltsp server
<ogra_ibook> phew
<ogra_ibook> that needs to be a fat server :)
<thoand> Yagisan: no, I did not
<ogra_ibook> thoand, the next CD has a graphical menu to select the install variant, no need for 2 versions ;)
<zakame> hehe
<thoand> ogra_ibook: that is great :)
<ogra_ibook> its far more obvious
<thoand> I think 6.04 will be THA_
<thoand> hmpf
<thoand> I think 6.04 will be _THE_ distribution :)
<thoand> I think the kubuntu version will be the best
<thoand> will there come a gnome free edubuntu version?
<Yagisan> ogra_ibook: nah, any off the shelf dual core amd64 will be fine as a server
<ogra_ibook> nope, but there is no problem to make edubuntu use kde or xfce 
<ogra_ibook> Yagisan, for 70 clients ? that needs a huge amount of mem ;)
<Yagisan> ogra_ibook: amd64, some of these boards take shitloads of ram
<ogra_ibook> true :)
* Yagisan wants for christmas
* Yagisan actually gets the bill for christmas lunch instead
<zakame> heh, I'll let the school tackle that ;)  I'll just recommend maybe this amount of RAM :))
<Yagisan> My dream box, would be a nice dual, dual core amd64 box, 4GB+ RAM, 1TB+ storage in RAID5
<Yagisan> 1 core for all work stuff, the other 3 for all my "other" activities :)
<ogra_ibook> did you ask santa for it ? ;)
<Yagisan> ogra_ibook: other here, I am santa - and santa can't afford it :(
<Yagisan> s/other/over
<ogra_ibook> ah, damned ...
<Yagisan> at least the kids will be happy tommorow
* zakame sure wishes a laptop :'(
* Yagisan also has no laptop
<Yagisan> brb - father's duties
<Yagisan> woo hoo - It's christmas
<zakame> indeed
<Yagisan> finally, the kids are in bed. Goodnight All, Merry Christmas
<zakame> Merry Christmas Yagisan :)
<lululinux> where does Gnome hide "start another X session"?
<lululinux> Error: Failed to run /usr/bin/update-manager as user root: Wrong password.
<ogra_ibook> there is a "new login" item in the menu
<ogra_ibook> which password did you give for update-manager ?
<lululinux> I looked for anything like "new login", can't see anything.
<ogra_ibook> its there ... 
<lululinux> applications, places, or system?
<ogra_ibook> somewhere below applications ...
<ogra_ibook> in "system tools" there iirc ...
<ogra_ibook> using dapper here, the menu is broken, so i cant look up the correct place
<lululinux> yes, in system tools, thanks
* lululinux thinks it belongs in main 'system' menu
<lululinux> I used the root password
<ogra_ibook> the menu will change a lot in dapper ...
<ogra_ibook> dunno wher it will be put
<ogra_ibook> thats wrong
<lululinux> it's the only password that exists on this system
<lululinux> user passwords are null
<ogra_ibook> use your user password
<ogra_ibook> the root password is nowhere used in edubuntu
<ogra_ibook> that wont work
<lululinux> root has the only password that exists on this system
<ogra_ibook> your sudo user (the one you set up on install) is the only administrative user in every gui in ubuntu ... setting a root password just adds insecurity
<lululinux> that user now has a null password, like all other users except root
<ogra_ibook> thats wrong
<ogra_ibook> set one
<lululinux> that's how it is
<ogra_ibook> how did you achieve that ? 
<ogra_ibook> the installer will complain if you dont set a password for the admin on install
<lululinux> normal command line useradd/passwd tools
<ogra_ibook> and how did you install ?
<zakame> hm kinda like oem?
<zakame> bleah wrogn chan
<ogra_ibook> edubuntu is built around sudo... root is only helpful on the commandline
<lululinux> kubuntu install, then apt-get install edubuntu-desktop
<zakame> one can always do `sudo bash` or `sudo /bin/sh`
<zakame> then again, what's the point of sudo if all you want is a rootshell :/
<ogra_ibook> kubuntu follows this philosophy as well
<ogra_ibook> all gui tools require sudo ...
<ogra_ibook> if you want to change itt, feel free to find all of them and change it to su, but its a hell lot of work and somewhat a slap into the face of security ...
<lululinux> well, the kid doesn't need update notification on the main menubar anyway, so I'll just try to delete that if I can figure out how; then I'll login root and do adept
<ogra_ibook> there is a reason we choose sudo ;)
<lululinux> I don't care
<lululinux> this is not my only linux box
<lululinux> they all need to require the same basics
<lululinux> Gnome is more than enough deviation as it is
<lululinux> all my others are KDE only
<ogra_ibook> as i said, feel free to change it... but it will change back on every upgrade (no matter if gnome or kde)
<zakame> er, rather strong...
<ogra_ibook> the tools are all called with the respective sudo tool...so on upgrades the .desktop files will revertt to it ...
<lululinux> why do my additions to KDE menus not get picked up in Gnome? I had to make manual additions in each.
<ogra_ibook> in dapper the admin tools will be hidden for non sudo users ... update-notifier as well ...
<lululinux> SeaMonkey and Firefox 1.5
<lululinux> that's good
<ogra_ibook> if you didnt use the ubuntu packages, then complain at the people who broke seamonkey and firefox ;)
<lululinux> will there be any ubuntu version that runs on an ix86 Mac?
<lululinux> I didn't see any SeaMonkey 1.0b or Firefox 1.5 packages in adept
<ogra_ibook> ubuntu/edubuntu and kubuntu follow all the freedesktop.org standard, if the tools you use dont work, the upstream didnt follow them
<ogra_ibook> if there is a x86 mac to develop on, we will do that ;)
<lululinux> whatever the normal KDE menu editor is i used
<lululinux> whatever the normal KDE menu editor is what I used
<lululinux> whatever the normal KDE menu editor is is what I used
<ogra_ibook> to add them ? 
<lululinux> yes
<ogra_ibook> thats fine 
<ogra_ibook> but if you read the freedesktop.org spec you'll see that they are storing their data in different places to not mix up the menus ;)
<lululinux> mebbe in 3.5 that will be changed?
<ogra_ibook> with the new gnome editor in dapper you can override that afaik
<ogra_ibook> kde isnt that far yet with freedesktop.org standards ...
<ogra_ibook> there is still a lot stuff to be fixed ...
<ogra_ibook> i guess that will come in 4.0
<lululinux> I don't see a way to delete the update notifier from the main menubar
<lululinux> the kid doesn't need it there
<ogra_ibook> you need to delete it from the session and save the session ...
<lululinux> how?
<ogra_ibook> delete it with the session manager from the desktop settings menu, then save the session on logout
<lululinux> right click on panel has no "delete from panel" option
<ogra_ibook> its in the notification area ... you cant just delete it from there ... the app itself runs in the session...
<ogra_ibook> #(not different to kde btw)
<lululinux> found it
<ogra_ibook> great :)
<lululinux> :)
<lululinux> the trash can looks much too much like the active state indicator for the desktop chooser
<ogra_ibook> yes, the icon isnt the best one ... 
<ogra_ibook> tango will change that 
<lululinux> I have other things to do for a while. Thanks ogra_ibook 
<ogra_ibook> have fun and merry christmas (in case you celebrate it)
<MrMazda> ogra_ibook: Merry Christmas to you too! ( lululinux is my kid's puter upstairs )
<ogra_ibook> thanks :)
<lululinux> ogra_ibook: selecting new login doesn't do anything except make a noise
<ogra_ibook> hmm, is gdm running ? 
<lululinux> no
<ogra_ibook> run it then ;)
<lululinux> I don't like it
<lululinux> kdm is running
<ogra_ibook> so you cant have the gdmflexiserver support ....
<ogra_ibook> as in kde, the loginmanager is responsible for logins ...
* MrMazda waves to mhz
<mhz> MrMazda: hi there, MX!
#edubuntu 2005-12-30
* #edubuntu  [freenode-info]  If you're at a conference, please contact freenode staff to make sure we've made special allowance for many users coming into our network from a single internet address ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp ). Private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked, except to network staff, services and participating registered users ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg )... Thanks!
<mhz> pitux: feliz navidad
<pitux> mhz: feliz navidad para ti tambien y tus seres queridos
<mhz> gracias
<[danger] > Hello.  Could someone direct me to a place where I can get help creating a boot disk for edubuntu?
<MrMazda> you can't make a boot floppy
<MrMazda> kernel won't fit on a floppy
<MrMazda> use the install CD to repair if necessary
<tclong> greets!
<[danger] > hi, tclong.  Are you still around?
<tclong> yep
<[danger] > are you pretty experienced with edubuntu?
<tclong> heh. Not really. I'm still getting it set up on my son's computer. I'm working on the wireless network card. But I have ubuntu running on my laptop and debian on my office server.
<tclong> What's up? I might be able to help.
<[danger] > I'm trying to set it up on my son's computer as well, but I'm having trouble booting off the cd-rom.  I followed the suggestion of the the readme file in the install folder on the disk and created a bootable floppy containing the Smart Boot MAnager, but I can't get it to boot off the CD-ROM.
<tclong> what happens when you try to boot directly from the CD-ROM?
<[danger] > Nothing.  The computer has ubuntu installed and simply defaults to that.  I double-checked the BIOS to make sure that it looked to the CD before the hard drive, but it defaults to the hard drive nonetheless.
<[danger] > Is there a certain way of burning a CDR to make it bootable?  I downloaded edubuntu and burned the CD on a Mac using Toast, so it's entirely possible that the CDR is not bootable.
<tclong> I know that in Nero on a pc you can specify a bootable system cd.
<tclong> But I've never burned on a Mac before.
<tclong> but that shouldn't matter.
<tclong> the edubuntu cd image should contain everything for the system to recognize it as a boot cd.
<[danger] > I thought that making an exact copy of the .iso file I downloaded was all that mattered.  I'm pretty sure that's what I did.  I'll try it again using a different program.  The linux box is relatively old, so I wasn't sure if it was entirely capable of reading the .iso cd-rom; hence the floppy with SBM.
<tclong> I actually had to swap out the CD-ROM drive in my son's machine (HP Pavilion) with a CD-ROM drive from my work computer in order to get the install to work.
<tclong> btw: is this edubuntu machine a christmas present for your son?
<[danger] > yes it is a xmas present for my son.
<[danger] > I've already resolved myself to leaving ubuntu on it if I can't get it work, but I'd really like to get edubuntu on there. He's six.
<[danger] > I'm buring another cd right now using a different program just to make sure it copies the image exactly.
<tclong> \o/ unbelievable!!! My son is six as well, and this is a present for him, and for all our kids really (we have 4).  But I really want to get edubuntu working on here, and I'm very close to getting the wireless card going. After that, I need to try to get vmware installed so he can play his windows cdrom games on here.
<[danger] > cool.
<[danger] > The new CD I burned work.  I'm running the edubuntu installer right now.  Woohoo!
<tclong> awesome!
<tclong> I'm running into roadblocks with this wireless card.
<[danger] > I wish I could help you out, but I have little confidence in my linux skills.  Have you tried talking to anyone in the #ubuntu channel?
<crimsun> [danger] : you can also install Edubuntu on an existing Ubuntu configuration by installing the 'edubuntu-desktop' package.
<crimsun> (well, the desktop portion of Edubuntu, that is)
<[danger] > Too late!  I'm already running the installation.  It seems to be going incredibly slowly and I haven't the foggiest idea why.
* tclong is about to quit.... Can't get this !@#$%-ing wireless card to work.
<lucasvo> good morning!
<writer> good evening
<mhz> good morning vieeeeettttnnnaaaammmm
<mhz> ;)
<mhz> moin you all
<lucasvo> ah, real music :D
<mhz> lucasvo: merry xmas
<lucasvo> I've had enough xmas
* lucasvo got the presents already in the evening, it is normal in CH
<lucasvo>   edubuntu-desktop: Depends: evolution-plugins but it is not going to be installed
<lucasvo> when installing edubuntu-desktop
<lucasvo> Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have
<lucasvo> requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable
<lucasvo> distribution that some required packages have not yet been created
<lucasvo> or been moved out of Incoming.
<zakame> whoa
<Yagisan> impressive
<Yagisan> lucasvo: Is that from the cd or from a cross-graded ubuntu install ?
<lucasvo> Yagisan: I installed edubuntu-> upgrade to dapper-> installed xubuntu -> I want to install edubuntu
<lucasvo> Yagisan:  you can tell me how I can set default wm to metacity ?
<Yagisan> lucasvo: "upgrade to dapper" may be the problem. evolution-plugins may not have been rebuilt yet
<lucasvo> hi ogra_ibook 
<ogra_ibook> hi
<lucasvo> how can I set metacity as default wm?
<Yagisan> lucasvo: sorry, I don't know how to set the wm to metacity
<ogra_ibook> it *is* the default w m
<lucasvo> ogra_ibook: not after a xubuntu installation
<lucasvo> :(
<Yagisan> ogra_ibook: he went "edubuntu-> upgrade to dapper-> installed xubuntu -> I want to install edubuntu"
<Yagisan> seems to have broke something.
<zakame> oh
<ogra_ibook> sudo update-alternatives --config x-window-manager should do the trick
<ogra_ibook> in case xfce respects ubuntu/debian standards
<Yagisan> lucasvo: could you try "sudo aptitude update && sudo aptitude upgrade" then try installing edubuntu-desktop again
<lucasvo> ogra_ibook: thanks
<lucasvo>       5        /usr/bin/xfwm4
<lucasvo> it does
<Yagisan> that may fix your evolution-plugins can't be found issue
<ogra_ibook> edubuntu-desktop isnt installable currently afaik
<lucasvo> :D
<ogra_ibook> openoffice is broken 
<Yagisan> ogra_ibook: openoffice is always broken
<ogra_ibook> heh
<lucasvo> Yagisan: why?
<lucasvo> Yagisan: is there any alternative?
<lucasvo> koffice? *ggg*
<Yagisan> esp on amd64, it's the only app I can't the uim to work with
<Yagisan> lucasvo: If you are i386 it works better then eg amd64
<Yagisan> lucasvo: and the java issues - don't get me started on that
<ogra_ibook> it doesnt work at all on amd64
<ogra_ibook> costed me days to get my edubuntu presentation working ...
<lucasvo> yeah, you are right, java is crap
<ogra_ibook> as soon as you add any image to an impress presentation it goes into an infinite loop of crashing and restarting
<Yagisan> ogra_ibook: spare a thought for us users too. I get the infinite loop of death too, and I mainly use writer :(
<Yagisan> bbl
<pc22> hey Yagisan 
<Yagisan> me waves at pc22
<pc22> happy holidays
* Yagisan realises it's getting harder to type with age
<pc22> lol
<pc22> really?
<Yagisan> pc22: yep, I feel really old for my 24 years
<Yagisan> happy holidays to you too pc22
<pc22> lol
<pc22> youre just 24?
<pc22> very young
<pc22> unless you have kids
<Yagisan> yes, 24, wife, 2 kids, and my own business
<Yagisan> I'm old I tell you
<Yagisan> I should retire, less stressful
<pc22> lol
<pc22> thats why im not married yet
<Yagisan> pc22: It does have it's perks :-D
<pc22> having family have its rewards but not til i guess im ready
<Yagisan> pc22: you'll be ready one day, but don't leave it too late, or you'll be gone before the kids are out of school
<pc22> i dont envy some of my friends tho but i think i still can manage for a few more years
<pc22> how old do you think is great for marrying
<Yagisan> pc22: honestly, when you and your partner both feel it is right. It's my 4th anniversary in 2006, but we've been together since 1999
<pc22> cool
<pc22> im happy for u
<Yagisan> pc22: so we had a few years to see if we were compatible
<pc22> aw?
<pc22> meaning youre not married yet?
<Yagisan> pc22: yes we are married. were married in 2002
<pc22> why do still have to check if ur not compatible?
<pc22> you have to make it compatible
<Yagisan> pc22: but we lived together before then. It would be awful to marry someone, but then discover you can't live with them because they and you don't get along as well you thought.
<Yagisan> perhaps because someone can't keep their pants on eg
* Yagisan finally has some time for a quiet dinner with wife @ 3am 
<pc22> why what time is it there?
<Yagisan> 3:20am on Mon Dec 26
<Yagisan> bbl
<pc22> ok 
<pc22> be here
<pc22> enjoy
<Yagisan> re
<lucasvo> ogra_ibook: 
<lucasvo> ogra_ibook: sorry
<ogra_ibook> :)
<lucasvo> ogra_ibook: is there any way how to use an iBook as a thin client?
<lucasvo> maybe without netboot? 
<lucasvo> just loggin in over X?
<ogra_ibook> mine doesnt support netbooting it seems
<ogra_ibook> in the option menu i only get the HD offered
<ogra_ibook> so you'll have to resort to rom-o-matic i think
<lucasvo> hm, I mean with full feautured System on disk, which allows to log onto ltsp server
<ogra_ibook> i dont think that will work ... youre missing the sshkey etc
<lucasvo> ogra_ibook: can you figure out what's the NIC ID of your iBooks Nic is?
<ogra_ibook> UniNorth 2 GMAC (Sun GEM)
<lucasvo> doesn't find anything :(
<lucasvo> what about installing the chroot directly onto the disc?
<lucasvo> maybe dual boot with full feautured OS as well
<ogra_ibook> nope
<ogra_ibook> as i said, that wont work, you miss the sshkey and some other stuff
<lucasvo> sshkey?
<ogra_ibook> sure for ldm
<ogra_ibook> additionally some of the bindmount magic and stuff thats done by the bootscript ... you can try it, but it will take you a lot of work to adjust all the scripts ...
<lucasvo> hm :(
<mhz_BBL> ogra_ibook: netbooting is activated by holding 'n' key when booting
<mhz_BBL> ogra_ibook: merry xmas, BTW :)
<mhz_BBL> lucasvo: have you tried just xforwarding
<ogra_ibook> mhz_BBL, same to you :)
<mhz_BBL> thx
<ogra_ibook> i thought it must show up in the menu i get if i hold down the option key on boot
<mhz_BBL> IIRC, both my powerbook and stolen-ibook could netboot pressing n
<mhz_BBL> :)
<ogra_ibook> i'll try next time i reboot
<mhz_BBL> option key is for OSes
<mhz_BBL> or HD
<ogra_ibook> ah
<mhz_BBL> yup, I am 100% sure
<mhz_BBL> (well, 99%) ;)
<ogra_ibook> heh
<mhz_BBL> remember Apple is KISS
<mhz_BBL> so option = optional
<mhz_BBL> and n = netboot
<mhz_BBL> and c =cdrom
<mhz_BBL> :D
<lucasvo> mhz_BBL: cool
<mhz_BBL> and f + other key = firmaware
<mhz_BBL> lucasvo: cool? x forwarding works from Apple to x86?
<lucasvo> I meant netboot
<mhz_BBL> oh,
<mhz_BBL> :0
<mhz_BBL> yes
<mhz_BBL> cool :)
<lucasvo> hm, the netboot sign comes
<mhz_BBL> lucasvo: from Apple to x86?
<lucasvo> k.a.
<mhz_BBL> lucasvo: from Apple to x86 server?
<lucasvo> I don't know
<lucasvo> k.a. -> german: no clue
<mhz_BBL> lucasvo: y.t.c
<mhz_BBL> lucasvo: y.t.c -> Chilean = ya te cache!
<lucasvo> :D
* mhz_BBL misses an apple box.. a little bit.
<mhz_BBL> .oO(esp. because I was left with a SCSI external CD-writer I have no port to use with)
<ogra_ibook> ppc on x86 servers isnt supported yet (thats one reason i bought this ibook)
<lucasvo> ah
<lucasvo> anybody using SIP here?
<ogra_ibook> and the ltsp-server package doesnt work on ppc yet as well ..
<mhz_BBL> yup, now that you mention it, ogra, I remember one of the LTSP guys told me long ago that they had no PPC boxes to try on
<mhz_BBL> long ago = 1 or 2 years
<ogra_ibook> they have now, and 4.1 does work with ppc
<mhz_BBL> however, what about XDMCP or x-forwarding?
<ogra_ibook> pfft
<mhz_BBL> x is x? no matter what arch. we're talking about?
<ogra_ibook> sure that would work, but you shoudl use 4.1 then
<mhz> okis
<mhz> at least there are options.
<ogra_ibook> dapper should get there 
<mhz> good
<lucasvo> Mark Shuttleworth currently lives in space but plans to visit the Earth again someday soon. If you need money or anything, e-mail him and ask.
<lucasvo> http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/clique
<mhz> lucasvo: LOL!
<alejandro> hi
<mhz> ogra_ibook: I am truly sorry, believe me but I have my serious doubts now.
<lucasvo> mhz: of what?
<ogra_ibook> mhz, i cant tell you much more, #launchpad is the palce  
<mhz> I dont' want to make a huge deal but it's my head, my last 3-4 years, promoting and encouraging people to understand the importance of fredom to access and knowledge
<mhz> ogra_ibook: are LP devel ubuntu members?
<ogra_ibook> some of them ...
<mhz> lucasvo: it's a personal conflict here. I didnt know LP was propietary software and not free software.
<ogra_ibook> note that mark puts about 10X as much money into launchpad than into ubuntu
<lucasvo> mhz: aha #launchpad
<lucasvo> mhz: I mean #ubuntu-devel
<mhz> yup, lucasvo 
<lucasvo> ogra_ibook: why?
<ogra_ibook> because he pays far more devs for it and ubuntu already brings some small revenue in
<lucasvo> ogra_ibook: ubuntu looks much more complicated than launchpad? what is that complex in launchpad?
<ogra_ibook> launchpad is way more development effort 
<mhz> ogra_ibook: I understand the money issue very well. I have spent almost all my savings in spreading the importance of freedom of access, esp. in sub-developed countries (latin america)
<ogra_ibook> lucasvo, launchpad is targeted to be the core of the whole OSS development one day
<mhz> hence my complaint, oliver
<mhz> and i know you are not responsible
<lucasvo> like the commercial patch management of the kernel?
<ogra_ibook> nope
<ogra_ibook> quite different 
<lucasvo> ogra_ibook: in what way?
<ogra_ibook> imagine sourceforge, but better and newer 
<ogra_ibook> and a lot of new featurs
<mhz> ogra_ibook: ok, i'll try to calm down and think as much as i can. I know bottom line is 'deal with it or don't use it'.
<lucasvo> and is it the goal of sabdfl to get more money with launchpad or should he just earn enough to live?
<mhz> ogra_ibook: but so far i feel very frustrated and stupid because I was so blind.
<ogra_ibook> mhz, it wont make the software nonfree, as sourceforges nonfree status does it make now ...
<mhz> i know, it's a matter or principles to me.
<lucasvo> mhz: actually it is the same sort of distribution than SuSE or redhat :D
<mhz> indded
<mhz> thats why i used Debian for almost 3 years, only
* mhz sighs
<ogra_ibook> mhz_thinking, sourceforge is 100% nonfree software ... 
<mhz_thinking> i dont help sourceforge
<ogra_ibook> apart from the apache it runs on
<mhz_thinking> my point is I have always put tons of effort and my own money to help freedom
<lucasvo> mhz_thinking: http://ronja.twibright.com/development/philosophy.php
<ogra_ibook> nope, but you use tons of software thats developed on sourceforge
<ogra_ibook> as long as the software developed on it is free and as long as we got the promise that launchpad will be GPLed too, i wont really care
<lucasvo> as long as we got the promise that launchpad will be GPLed !
<ogra_ibook> mark is not the type of guy who breaky his promises
<lucasvo> is there any signed paper from makr?
<ogra_ibook> not a signed paper ... but he states it in every talk he holds about it
<lucasvo> ah, ok
<lucasvo> good
<mhz_thinking> ogra_ibook: that's why I am thinking because I am very 'pationate' to what i do, so I need to breathe and think.
<ogra_ibook> its just that he needs to get some revenue back for the huge amount of money he puts in there 
<mhz_thinking> i know
<lucasvo> ogra_ibook: I understand that
<mhz_thinking> i understand
<mhz_thinking> we all do
<ogra_ibook> eventually this money will come in by the services launchpad offers ...
<ogra_ibook> then you can GPL it ..
<lucasvo> mhz_thinking: I was thinking of beginning to develop an opensource PC and boostrapping it :D
<mhz_thinking> hehe
<lucasvo> it would then be totally free
* mhz_thinking reading
<lucasvo> mhz_thinking: "For various kinds of companies, open-source really represents cost reduction. It also represents a wide market for developers themselves, to customize the applications for the needs of the clients - which is a nice alternative to the one-size-fits-all commercial
<lucasvo> oh
<lucasvo> mhz_thinking: http://wiki.twibright.com/index.php/UserControlledTechnology
<mhz_thinking> lucasvo: I am still trying to get money to make U$250 laptops, 10 inches, 20 GB, 256 RAM
<lucasvo> mhz_thinking: olpc?
<mhz_thinking> ?
<lucasvo> one-laptop-per-child
<lucasvo> too bad that ubuntu won't be used for it :(
<mhz_thinking> hmmm, sort of.
<lucasvo> mhz_thinking: go to MIT
<mhz_thinking> lucasvo: my perspective is bit diff. I want to give owners the chance to earn the laptop. How? Both a child and a parent come to a 10-day training where we teach them to assemble the parts and install GnuLinux on it. Then they take the laptop home.
<lucasvo> mhz_thinking: this is cool
<mhz_thinking> so I give laptops per family not per child :)
<lucasvo> mhz_thinking: have you ever asked mark?
<mhz_thinking> lucasvo: thx
<mhz_thinking> lucasvo: nope, not yet
<mhz_thinking> but as I have not made money in the last 2 or 3 months, and things dont look good for january or february in Chile, my mind is going towards the direction of getting ajob instead of trying to change the world (at least until april) :(
<lucasvo> mhz_thinking: how do you make money?
<mhz_thinking> I provide training, help schools adopt technology, do some translations. 
<mhz_thinking> well, guys. I need to breathe and get a coffe to meditate about this simple situation that causes me trouble.
* mhz_thinking Be back soon
<mhz_thinking> lucasvo: BTW, nice project! UserControlledTechnology
<signifer135> hey
<lucasvo> waaaaa
<lucasvo> my sister just turned off my ltsp server
<lucasvo> by clicking on Turn off this computer
<lucasvo> on an ltsp client, as everybody else would o
<lucasvo> mhz_thinking: yes it is :D
<lucasvo> http://ronja.twibright.com/installations.php < proves it works
<Lord_Athur> hi+
<Lord_Athur> hi there
<Lord_Athur> I put the following command:
<Lord_Athur> alejandro@NAOMY:~$ sudo mkisofs -b /home/alejandro/B/isolinux/isolinux.bin -c /home/alejandro/B/isolinux/boot.cat -J -R -o /home/alejandro/banux.iso /home/alejandro/B     
<Lord_Athur> to make an iso image
<Lord_Athur> /home/alejandro/B is the folder of the distro
<Lord_Athur> but the terminal sent me the error:
<Lord_Athur> INFO:   UTF-8 character encoding detected by locale settings.
<Lord_Athur>         Assuming UTF-8 encoded filenames on source filesystem,
<Lord_Athur>         use -input-charset to override.
<Lord_Athur> call to search_tree_file with an absolute path, stripping
<Lord_Athur> initial path separator. Hope this was intended...
<Lord_Athur> mkisofs: Uh oh, I cant find the boot catalog directory '/home/alejandro/B/isolinux'!
<signifer123> hey guys
<Lord_Athur> what should I do?
<signifer123> gain
<signifer123> soz
<Lord_Athur> hi signifer123 
<Lord_Athur> is there anybody?
<signifer123> like 18 of them
<signifer123> jsut idling though
<signifer123> what you trying to do?
<Lord_Athur> ogra, +
<Lord_Athur> help me please
#edubuntu 2005-12-31
<jsgotangco> cheers
<Velmont> I wonder, -- where did that nested new login-thing go?
<Velmont> I want to log on to another computer via XDMCP, - but I want it nested in a window, not a new window for it.
<lucasvo> Velmont: edubuntu doesn't use X forwarding...
<lucasvo> ehm I mean XDMCP forwarding
<Velmont> Thats not what I want.
<Velmont> I want an client in a window, just like VNC
<lucasvo> use Xnest
<lucasvo> but I don't know how it works
<Velmont> Before (well, i asked in the wrong chan :P) hoary had a menuoption for it... That is gone in Breezy.
<lucasvo> yup
<lucasvo> I don't know where one can find it :D
<Velmont> matchbox-nest - graphical wrapper around xnest
<Velmont> I can use that. - Looks right :] 
<Lord_Athur> hi
<mhz> Lord_Athur: hi there
<Lord_Athur> hi mhz 
<Lord_Athur> :D
<mhz> neurogeek: feliz navidad!
<neurogeek> mhz, feliz navidad para ti
<neurogeek> mhz, how is it going??
<Lord_Athur> mhz,  q te trajo el viejito?
<Lord_Athur> what did san nicolas give you?
<Lord_Athur> :D
<mhz> Lord_Athur: just a t-shirt :)
<mhz> neurogeek: it's ging well but my to-do list it getting too big
* Yagisan only got the bill :(
<mhz> and my pocket too little :d
<mhz> Yagisan: hey!!!
<mhz> how's familiy?
<Lord_Athur> the most important thing at chritmas (o como se escriba) is to be at home and with the family.
<mhz> neurogeek: how are you and 'the boss'?
<Yagisan> mhz: they are happy. lost interest in their gifts after about 20 seconds
<neurogeek> mhz, everything good.. just yesterday returning from a trip to my in-laws.. 
<neurogeek> mhz, im on vacations, so, i should be working on the moinmoin stuff
<mhz> neurogeek: oh, cool
<mhz> Yagisan: that happens :D
<Yagisan> night all
<Lord_Athur> mhz, 
<Lord_Athur> are here?
<mhz> re
<newmember> I have installed this edu version, but there seems to be alot missing, I have setup ltsp many times and that was easier and there was more documentation, maybe this distro is not quite ready
<mhz> newmember: welcome. Edubuntu is young, indeed but very good. LTSP we use is not LTSP standard, it is improved, actually, and LTSP 4.2 will adopt our changes. did you read InstallNotes before installing?
<ogra_ibook> did you read the install notes wikipage ?
<mhz> Many people have noticed they did wrong not reading tjhose notes, esp. if you are used to LTSP standard
<newmember> hi everyone
<neurogeek> ogra_ibook, hello.. how is your ibook going??
<newmember> top of the season to you
<ogra_ibook> the ltsp version we use is th eone ltsp.org is just adopting and will use as version 4.2
<newmember> I read what I could see, I installed the the sercver version
<mhz> .oO(oh, ogra did not read my answers ;)
<ogra_ibook> neurogeek, very nice, including the airport extreme wlan :)
<ogra_ibook> newmember, so you just hit enter on the cd prompt, right ? 
<ogra_ibook> that sets up all stuff automatically
<newmember> hmmm
<newmember> I  typed server
<ogra_ibook> newmember, see the wikipage mentioned in the topic and the release notes
<neurogeek> ogra_ibook, good, im thinking to get one myself.. soon i hope..
<newmember> crap
<ogra_ibook> 'Read before installing: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes'
<newmember> let me try that again
<newmember> I was ready something differnt than I was thinking
<newmember> I was thining server=good idea
<mhz> newmember: it happens :)
<ogra_ibook> you only need to edit the /etc/ltsp/dhcp.conf file post install any restart dhcpd and you are set
<newmember> I santa was good to everyone
<mhz> newmember: you can install edubuntu on top of your current 'server' install but I'd suggest you try reinstalling based on InstallNotes
<newmember> I have it in a vmware season so it will only take a few min
<ogra_ibook> newmember, i'm arguing with our CD guys about this since some time, i want it renamed to "minimal" for the next release... its a bit confusing
<newmember> shouldnt agrue, discuss loudly
<newmember> I still remember installing MS-SQL once the menu actually said "install without opening the manual"
<ogra_ibook> heh, yes, thats one of my main targets ;) but we had to adopt this "server" thingie from ubuntu ...
<ogra_ibook> the dapper CD already has a graphical selection menu instead of a prompt ... its far more obvious ... (but sadly still carries the word "server" in it)
* mhz doesnt agree with having just the GUI installer option. He insists on the non-gui option for same CD
<ogra_ibook> ywhats wrong with the gfxboot menu ? 
<mhz> ogra_ibook: nothing wrong. It's just I remember devel telling me I have to download InstallCD if my machines cannot boo into GUI
<mhz> boot
<ogra_ibook> thats totally different
<mhz> which means, that for chile, all shipped CD's will be Live-Install CD
<ogra_ibook> nope
<mhz> and old boxes will need to donwload manually
<mhz> nope?
<ogra_ibook> the debian-installer used always the framebuffer
<ogra_ibook> there is only a menu and a picture added
<ogra_ibook> s/menu/graphical menu/
<mhz> like Morphix?
<ogra_ibook> the edubuntu liveCD would give you the workstation only install anyway ....
<ogra_ibook> we wont make shippables from it ... if we press CDs, it will be install CDs
<mhz> ogra_ibook: let me get this right...
<ogra_ibook> not like morphix...
<ogra_ibook> if we are able to get pressed CDs, be sure it wont be liveCDs ... 
<mhz> Ubuntu CD's to be shipped will be LiveCd (you can install ONLY from X ?)
<ogra_ibook> yes
<mhz> that's my complaint
<ogra_ibook> see which channel you are in here ;)
<mhz> hehehe
<ogra_ibook> i'm not talking about ubuntu 
<mhz> i know 
<mhz> sorry
<mhz> I was mixing my complaint
<ogra_ibook> ubuntu will only ship liveCDs, thats right
<newmember> i was just reading about differnt distros for school in linuxformat.co.uk    why so many distros? why not work on one really  good one?
<ogra_ibook> thats what we do here 
<mhz> ogra_ibook: and Edubuntu will ship Install CD (which let's you install whatever)
<mhz> newmember: ooops, many answers to that
<ogra_ibook> mhz, yes, since the liveCD wouldnt give us the default install and i doubt mark wants to pay for more than one variant
<mhz> newmember: what is good for you may not be good for everybody.
<mhz> ogra_ibook: that is good. I dont complain about this second point.
<mhz> my only complaint remains against the obligation of GUI
<mhz> but that is for Ubuntu
<ogra_ibook> so how would you solve it ? 
<ogra_ibook> only ship half the amount and get angry users because we have to limit the amount for shipit CDs ?
<mhz> nononon :D
<newmember> I guess I just do not know enough about distros
<mhz> make LiveCd include the non-GUI installer for those less fortunate who just dont have enough hardware to run X in Live mode
<ogra_ibook> mhz, that doesnt work
<mhz> newmember: there's a flavor for each need
<ogra_ibook> at least not in 700MB
<ogra_ibook> mhz, thats what the DVD offers
<mhz> ogra_ibook: i know that's why I complain, it is just not fair. there are many old users with old hardware, esp. those who are going to try ubuntu for 1st time because XP wont run
<mhz> but want to see it working and testing it
<mhz> ogra_ibook: a DVD is not for them either
<mhz> otherwise, probalby they would use XP
<ogra_ibook> would you expect them to do a sever install and install stuff on top ? 
* mhz is talking from the perspective of old hardware and potenttial newcomers)
<ogra_ibook> and configure everything manually? 
<ogra_ibook> on a 400Mhz PIII with 256Mb ubuntu runs very nicely
<mhz> ogra_ibook: nope, I would expect them to go to one of our UbuntuFests, get excited with linux, run home with the exact same CD they saw running Live on someoneelses hardware and press install
<mhz> it's a sicological thing
<mhz> they will use same CD they saw running
<mhz> not a bit diff.
<ogra_ibook> hmm, then i dont get your point 
<mhz> ogra_ibook: current people I have seen with 400 MHz to 600 MHz have no more than 128 MB (tops, usually 96)
<mhz> those PC install very good using install CD
<mhz> Today, I can give them the CD's I got from shipping
<ogra_ibook> and where is the difference to a liveCd being used for install there ? 
<mhz> and they'll install and keep a nice CD case
<mhz> with beatigul picture and logo
<ogra_ibook> that wont change 
<ogra_ibook> you just get one CD that does both instead of two
<mhz> ogra_ibook: AFAIK, the LiveCD, the one many users will ask for shipping, will only install from X running.
<mhz> not from booting
<ogra_ibook> and ? 
<ogra_ibook> the system thats running is 100% identical 
<ogra_ibook> i miss to see the probelm
<mhz> ogra_ibook:  those old 400 - 600 MHz with 96 MB ram  people wont be able to install via the CD we, LoCo teams, Lug's etc get
<mhz> (LiveCD)
<ogra_ibook> huh ??
<ogra_ibook> why shouldnt they
<mhz> because LiveCD will not run X
<ogra_ibook> errm, why shouldnt it ? 
<mhz> IIRC, 128 MB is needed to run X correctly and smoothly in Live mode
<ogra_ibook> and belive me, 96Mb isnt eniugh at all for a standard ubuntu
<mhz> have you ever run any GUI installer on less than 128 MB?
<mhz> Gnome will let you run Xchat and Firefox in standard ubuntu
<mhz> with 96 MB
<mhz> maybe Evolution and Xchat (no firefox there)
<ogra_ibook> never
<mhz> so, once they try that, they may get convinced to buy more ram or give Linux a try on a more powerful PC
<ogra_ibook> it will start and then start swapping ... you wont have any fun with a 96MB system 
<ogra_ibook> gnome alone needs 128 to run smoothly ... add 50 or more for firefox if you want to use more than one win/tab
<ogra_ibook> the recommendation for a default ubuntu is 256MB .... look at the wiki, its there somewhere
<mhz> ogra_ibook: hehehe, yeah, i know
<ogra_ibook> sure you *could* install in 96Mb but that would start swapping immediately
<mhz> I have read such specs.
<mhz> I have run Gnome (slowly, yes) on 96 MB and run Xchat
<ogra_ibook> people will drop it in favor of something smaller very soon, because they get to annoyed by the slowness
<mhz> oooh, thats nothing yes
<mhz> hence my interest on WindowMaker
<mhz> once they try it... it flies!
<ogra_ibook> i really wouldnt recommend it to anyone
<mhz> :)
<mhz> xfce is till too heavy to get fun in a 96 MB box
<ogra_ibook> you said a default install is fine and that wimply isnt the case, so a liveCD used as installer is perfect here, since it makes sure you match the minimal requirements
<ogra_ibook> s/wimply/simply
<newmember> Can I use, this for a thin client?  http://www.vfxweb.com/index.php?productid=8150
<mhz> ogra_ibook: it's not that I recommend it to anyone all the time but if users see they want to have latest apps. that let them generate PDF (abiword), get a PIM + mail client (evolution), they do end up understanding that if no more money to buy RAM, then WMaker or fluxbox is an option
<ogra_ibook> newmember, not yet ... multiarch support will come with dapper in april
<newmember> thanks
<mhz> ogra_ibook: hmm, I hadn't seen it like that.. (about LiveCD and minimal req. to get you happy tester)
<newmember> would havew been nice for the kids room
<ogra_ibook> currently you can only use i386 clients on i386 servers or amd64 clients (who would do that?) on amd64 servers
<ogra_ibook> in cureent dapper (development release) you already can use i386 clients on amd64 servers, i'm working on ppc support ...
* ogra_ibook wanders off to watch TV ...
<mhz> ogra_ibook: thx for making me see other points
<Lord_Athur> hi
<droop> hello all
<droop> my menubar just disappeared, how do I bring it back?
<lucasvo> droop: what windowmanager are you using?
<droop> gnome, this was a fresh install
<droop> i was half an hour into changing the settings
<lucasvo> droop: the whole panel or only the dropdown menu
<lucasvo> ?
<droop> both the top and bottom panels
<droop> I was transforming the bottom panel to an OSX-like dock and had just unchecked the Expand setting in the preferences
<lucasvo> hm, you have to choose another theme. probably
<lucasvo> open a shell and run gnome-theme-manager
<droop> i like the default theme, I just want the few popular apps to be avalaible at the bottom panel like the OSX dock
<droop> I moved the Window Switcher to the top panel
<lucasvo> droop: why not?
<ogra_ibook> droop, so the top panel disappeared as well ? 
<droop> why not what?
<droop> yes
<ogra_ibook> look if any panel is running with ps ax|grep "gnome-panel "
<droop> i'm staring at a blank desktop
<ogra_ibook> (in a terminal ...)
<droop> is there a key combination to open a shell?
<ogra_ibook> to get a terminal hit alt-f2
<ogra_ibook> and type gnome-terminal in the prompr
<ogra_ibook> *prompt
<mhz> ogra_ibook: is the 'ogra' nick also working for you?
<ogra_ibook> partially, the laptop with it is locked and stands some meters away
<droop> ogra_ibook: do you mean ctrl+alt+F2?
<ogra_ibook> but i hear the beep from xchat 
<ogra_ibook> droop, err, yes, indeed
<mhz> ogra: so it's ok I use 'tab' instead of 'tab + _ibook' ?
<droop> i can't get a shell in the graphical desktop but "gnome-panel" is running
<ogra_ibook> mhz, sure
<mhz> thx, made my life easier
<mhz> ;)
<ogra_ibook> droop, hmm, do you see any small grey rectangle in any of the corners ?
<droop> nope, I rebooted and the bottom panel would try to load the icons and then disappear, try to load the icons again and then disappear
<ogra_ibook> hmm, any error messages ? 
<tclong> hola!
<droop> none
<mhz> tclong: hola
<droop> at least none that pop up
<ogra_ibook> i thought if you use collapse but have the expand buttons disabled, you might see a very small rectangle to click on
<ogra_ibook> droop, what happens if you move your mouse to the bottom edge of your display ? 
<ogra_ibook> somewhere in the middle
<droop> nothing, I just created a launcher for gnome-panel and then ran it
<ogra_ibook> is it back again ? 
<droop> both panels would show up, the bottom panel would start to load the icons, and then both would disappear
<tclong> ogra: are you aware of any issues with edubuntu and acx111 wifi cards?
<ogra_ibook> and dont come back if you muve the mouse near the bottom ? 
<ogra_ibook> *move
<ogra_ibook> tclong, we include the madwifi drivers, they should support acx111
<ogra_ibook> tclong, what issues do you have ? 
<lucasvo> is it a known bug that the downloads window of firefox isn't displayed correctly?
<ogra_ibook> in dapper ? 
<ogra_ibook> its displayed corretly :) 
<ogra_ibook> its just empty
<ogra_ibook> ;)
<ogra_ibook> yes, thats known
<lucasvo> ogra_ibook: good
<droop> ogra it's not that they would collapse, both panels would try to load three or four times and then disappear
<lucasvo> ogra_ibook: I hope it will be fixed :D
<ogra_ibook> lucasvo, no, we plan to release in this state :P
<ogra_ibook> droop, no error message at all ? #
<ogra_ibook> thats weird
<tclong> ogra: just having difficulties bringing the wificonnection up, so I started working throught the tutuorial at http://www.houseofcraig.net/acx100_howto.php
<droop> ogra_ibook: no error messages, how can I kill the gnome-panel process?
<ogra_ibook> killall gnome-panel in a console
<ogra_ibook> tclong, modprobe acx_pci or modprobe acx_usb didnt help ?
<ogra_ibook> both are included in edubuntu... lots of firmware as well
<tclong> I'm going to give it a try later this week when I get a chance to work on it again.
<droop> ogra_ibook: do I have to do it within gnome or can it do it after switching to the text mode console?
<ogra_ibook> as long as you didnt compile stuff from source or did fiddle with stuff like this howto describes, they should just work
<ogra_ibook> droop, should work from textmode ... if not, just use sudo :)
<ogra_ibook> hey \sh 
<tclong> ogra: too late. I may have to reinstall, which shouldnt be a problem.
<\sh> if u speak about the devil
<\sh> greetings from amu
<ogra_ibook> tclong, sudo apt-get install --reinastall linux-image-`uname -r` should suffice
<droop> it seems like gnome-panel is not running
<ogra_ibook> \sh, thanks :) 
<ogra_ibook> \sh, frohe weihnachten, war zu faul zu SMSen
<tclong> cool, thanks!
<\sh> ogra_ibook: thx
<droop> is there a key combination to log off? at least I can try failsafe gnome
<ogra_ibook> tclong, i'm not sure if you als need the same command for the linux-restricted-modules package
<ogra_ibook> *also
<\sh> ogra_ibook: let me guess...your christmas present?
<ogra_ibook> droop, ctrl-alt-basckspace
<droop> oh yeah
<ogra_ibook> \sh, yes, from ogra *g*
<\sh> ogra_ibook: hehe :) ebay or new?
<lucasvo> ogra_ibook: I thoutght santa clause brings the christmas presents... :D
<ogra_ibook> new
<\sh> kroesus :)
<ogra_ibook> lucasvo, i dont trust fat guys with white beards ;)
<lucasvo> \sh: it is an i an d not a p
<\sh> lucasvo: well...doesn't matter...ogra is a rich man in any way ;)
<ogra_ibook> haha
<droop> same problem in failsafe gnome, is there a file I can edit to change the panel properties?
<droop> I still have access to the filesystem
* lucasvo doesn't understand
<ogra_ibook> \sh, well, it was the cheapest i could get ...
<ogra_ibook> and i already love it for its keyboard ...
<ogra_ibook> my blood pressure is waaay lower now ;)
<tclong> back later
<\sh> ogra_ibook: hehe...I saw them at amus place last time :) I love them too :) But first a new job :) then new toys :)
<ogra_ibook> droop, you could delete stuff in ~/.gconf or even ~/.gconf completely
<ogra_ibook> \sh, yup
<ogra_ibook> but the 12" is worth it ...
<\sh> ogra_ibook: that's why I like this little toshiba thing :)
<ogra_ibook> 5h battery power and in dapper even airport extreme is properly supported
<lucasvo> ogra_ibook: *wow*
<lucasvo> airport works?
<ogra_ibook> yup
<mhz> ogra: will ubuntu always be gnome default ? (just courious about Artwork fans not prefering GNOME over other desktops and how much their opinion will count)
<lucasvo> gnome rocks!
<\sh> mhz: ubuntu is gnome, kubuntu is kde :)
<ogra_ibook> with the bcm43xx module and the apple firmware ... sadly we cant ship the firmware, you need to install it manually
<mhz> yes, i know
<\sh> mhz: and kedubuntu is not just a dream :)
<mhz> hehehe, not at all
<lucasvo> ogra_ibook: hm, ok
<mhz> \sh: not a dream
<ogra_ibook> mhz, ubuntu will stay gnome 
<\sh> mhz: I heard rumours....rumours about edubuntu with kde by default ;) ogra heard them too :)
<mhz> ogra: so, how much does the artwork team opinion weighs?
<ogra_ibook> mhz, did you notice that we adjust our release schedule to match the gnome release schedule ;)
<ogra_ibook> \sh, not as long as KDE doesnt make predictable and reliable release schedules
<ogra_ibook> mhz, ?
<mhz> ogra: yup, but I need to be clear how much Artwork Team can have influences
<\sh> ogra_ibook: it
<ogra_ibook> mhz, the artwork team can do whatever they want
<\sh> it's not a problem of release schedules....(regarding edubuntu) it's more or less a problem of stable software
<ogra_ibook> mhz, we'll have a art company developing the default artwork for all three (ed/k/ubuntu)
<ogra_ibook> so the artwork team can develop all stuff they want
<\sh> anyways, amu just woke me up...and I wanted to sleep...so I'll sleep :)
<mhz> ogra: ohh, so they are not 'official'
<mhz> .oO(i thought they were)
<ogra_ibook> \sh, regarding ubuntu its a problem of release schedules
<\sh> ogra_ibook: yes that's why we have two flavours..:)
<ogra_ibook> mhz, they might become official once, but they havent even formed 
<ogra_ibook> the artteam is some guys who *want* to do stuff
<\sh> ok...guys...cu tomorrow again...with more rocking stuff :)
<\sh> good night :) 
<droop> ogra_ibook: deleting .gconf didn't remove my changes, anywhere else I should look?
<ogra_ibook> but they didnt supply anything yet, nor have they even a structure
<ogra_ibook> droop, thats where your changes to the default are saved 
<ogra_ibook> thats a bit weird ...
<ogra_ibook> since it brings back defaults if you delet it on all gnoe systems i've seen in my life
<mhz> ogra: i see you rpoint now
<droop> yeah i know, i was pretty much expecting everything to revert back to default once I logged off and logged back in
<ogra_ibook> mhz, it would be cool to have community developed artwork by default once, but first we need a working team 
<ogra_ibook> mhz, as long as we dont have one, mark will hire a company... and as i understood it should be a comapny in london where he can directly go for discussing stuff etc
<mhz> ogra: yup, good idea
* mhz understands MANY things now :)
<ogra_ibook> heh
* ogra_ibook goes to pick his pizza from the oven
<droop> ogra_ibook: rebooting brought back the default settings, thanks for your help
<mhz> hehehe, I remember one of the UserFriendly stips that showed a pizza staying warm over a flat server rack (unit)
<ogra_ibook> droop, glad you got it back 
<ogra_ibook> mhz, the sad stuff is, that thing tastes as cheap as it was ...
<mhz> ogra_ibook: stop chewing before speaking and dont make keyboard greesy
<mhz> LOl
<mhz> ogra_ibook: I remember when I was single and had no kids, I used to have pizzas (doble cheese) almost 2 to 3 times a week
<ogra_ibook> i'm just to lazy to start cooking at midnight, but havent had any warm food today
<mhz> oops, pity
<droop> ah crap, same thing happened, this time when I added an app launcher for TuxPaint
<droop> is there a log file i can look for?
<ogra_ibook> there is a debian bug about tuxpaint, might be we inherited it... probably try to create a new launcher and make it start tuxpaint
<ogra_ibook> ah
<ogra_ibook> bugzilla 16577
<ogra_ibook> its fixed in dapper
<droop> i wasn't launching TuxPaint, i just added the launcher to the bottom pael
<ogra_ibook> the launcher is broken
<droop> go you have a link?
<droop> i mean *do
<ogra_ibook> http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16577
<droop> it seems like it's just with TuxPaint, or am i mistaken?
#edubuntu 2006-01-01
<Lord_Athur> is there an edubuntu version with SElinux to download from the web?
<crimsun> not that I know of
<crimsun> coincidentally, I'm reading a host of SELinux papers :/
<Lord_Athur> :D
<Lord_Athur> hi
<Lord_Athur> mhz_BRB, 
<Lord_Athur> mhz_BRB,  /join #banux
<mhz> lol!
<mhz> http://openmortal.sourceforge.net/     http://openmortal.sourceforge.net/screenshots.html  
<mhz> hi all
<writer> Hi all!
<zakame> hi writer :D
* Yagisan waves
<writer> I get today DVD Edubuntu - is it LiveCD?
<Yagisan> I don't think so
<writer> Who know about Edubuntu-DVD. On the disk I found only art file. May be I bad find?
<Yagisan> writer: ogra may know, but he is on holidays
<writer> Thanks. Now on the West is Xmas? Yes? When will end the holidays on the West? 
<Yagisan> writer: It depends, most companies get 2-4 weeks holidays. 
<Yagisan> writer: usually most people are back by January 7
<writer> Yagisan: Thank you. OK. In Russia holidays will by January 10. Happy New Year!
<zakame> rocking
<Lord_Athur> hi
<Yagisan> writer: Happy New Year to you too!
<Yagisan> G'day Lord_Athur
<Lord_Athur> thanks Yagisan, good day for you too
<Lord_Athur> I've installed kubuntu breezy today, but kubuntu cannot show me the folders in /mnt of other partition
<Yagisan> Sorry Lord_Athur, I'm not very familiar with Kubuntu
<Yagisan> does ls /mnt in a terminal work
<Lord_Athur> ok Yagisan 
<Lord_Athur> :D
<writer> Lord_Athur: Yes, in /mnt is nothing. See in /media 
<Lord_Athur> there is nothing in media
<writer> And what find you?
<Lord_Athur> a???
<Lord_Athur> writer, do you speak spanish?
<Yagisan> Lord_Athur: nothing is mounted there then
<writer>  Lord_Athur: No, I speak bad English and good Russia
<Lord_Athur> ok writer :D
<writer> Lord_Athur: But intersting Ubuntu very
<Lord_Athur> that's the important
<writer> I write the articles about Ubuntu on the http://linuxcenter.ru
<Lord_Athur> I'll see them
<mhz> ogra: is this german http://www.ai-vdi.org/ ?
<mhz> ogra: BTW, I am convinced... I will work on XFCE instead of wmaker
* mhz will be obedient
* Yagisan doesn't believe mhz
<mhz> Yagisan: hehehe
<mhz> well, I'll try
<jsgotangco> bah work in gnome :P
* mhz hopes he can tweak XFCE to look as cool as some wmaker and fluxbox screesnshot
<zakame> on a celeron 266 :P
<Yagisan> zakame: I have a p2 233 right beside me
<Yagisan> 64mb ram
<mhz> jsgotangco: the good thing is I'll try to use only non-gnome dependant apps 
<Yagisan> anyone wants testing on it, just let me know
<jsgotangco> well its gtk so you'll be seeing some
<mhz> jsgotangco: indeed
<zakame> Yagisan: w00t :) I've yet to blog about the celeron running the full gnome though
<Yagisan> you kids today are spoilt with your gui's, back in my day it was all punch cards and cli if you were lucky
<Yagisan> zakame: if I can find a board, I have a 6x86 120Mhz cpu here
<jsgotangco> gahhh i only saw a punch card, not actually use one
<mhz> jsgotangco: however, 'nomed' (aka, Daniel) is working on http://www.dsslive.org.test.ibiblio.org/mediawiki/index.php/Home
<Yagisan> I remember wiring up the plugboard on my pc
<mhz> jsgotangco: and that DSS project is not using gnome dependencies
<mhz> so I have some hopes
<zakame> Yagisan: ooh classic :)  I didn't do much work on those though
<mhz> unless there's a very light KDE arounf
<jsgotangco> wow it looks like a launchpad project
<mhz> -f + d
<mhz> jsgotangco: which one?
<jsgotangco> DSS
<mhz> oh, yes! very cool project!
<mhz> just like openusability.org
<jsgotangco> mhz, actually LP will have infrastructure to let you create your own derivatives
<jsgotangco> orchard is just proof of concept 
<mhz> jsgotangco: yup, but i will not use more LP until it is 'free as in freedom'
<mhz> i'll be patient
<jsgotangco> whatever suits you, i prefer to be productive :P
<mhz> so I'll use just the parts I need to (like auth for wiki)
<mhz> jsgotangco: yes, i know your preferences ;)
<jsgotangco> mhz, its not that, i need tools to create stuff, like for example, i'll need java so i could export to pdf...
<jsgotangco> there's no competely "free" toolchain that can do that at the moment
<mhz> jsgotangco: it doesn't matter how cool it looks or how good it is, If I can't share it with you, I won't use it
<mhz> so, as long as i know it is not free, I can't feel comfortable promoting its use
<mhz> I can be less or similar productive using Tutos project
<jsgotangco> how do you exactly define free anyways? FSF definition?
<mhz> ahhh, good question
<mhz> GPL would summarize it
<mhz> 4 basic freedoms will do to me
<Yagisan> I tend to agree more with Debian then the FSF about free
<mhz> Yagisan: i may consider use non-free software as long as I am not contributing to such project
<mhz> in this particular project, I am contributing
<mhz> so I need to be sure and feel comfortable enough about freedom
<Yagisan> mhz: I tend to see the wiki as non-free myself
<mhz> Yagisan: why?
<mhz> .oO(ogra will kick me.. maybe this is too much off topic)
<jsgotangco> mhz, those are pretty basic and besides, rms is a hippie =)
<mhz> lol
<mhz> well, good point
<jsgotangco> mhz, we haven't even tackled about branding and stuff
<mhz> but are the basis for what I have done and invested in last 3 years
<jsgotangco> these are just simple issues, but that's one reason why our firefox doesn't have the firefox logo
<Yagisan> mhz: it seeks to remove the copyright from contributors, yet wishes to use copyright to prevent people taking content from the wiki
<jsgotangco> actually its also possible that our browser shouldnt even be called firefox
<zakame> (gartoon has a fox though :P)
<mhz> Yagisan: ?
<jsgotangco> zakame, but the fox isn't trademarked, the logo is
<zakame> yup
<jsgotangco> pretty much how canonical has ubuntu and the ubuntu logo trademarked
<mhz> Yagisan: it keeps copyright. It is implied in RecentChanges
<jsgotangco> (dunno about kubuntu though)
<mhz> and also in Last modified by part, Yagisan 
<mhz> Yagisan: who told you wiki wishes to use copyright to prevent people taking content from the wiki
<Yagisan> mhz: It was in the thread I started
<jsgotangco> a pretty long thread
<mhz> I dont recall ubuntu-doc people saying they use 'copyright'
<mhz> I do recall the need to protect good content to be screwed up
<Yagisan> mhz: where are the web archives, I can find the mail
<jsgotangco> nice chat but the sandman calls =)
<mhz> hehe, jsgotangco bye
<Yagisan> mhz: I recall being asked not to contribute if I wish to retain copyright over my work
<mhz> yes
<Yagisan> bye jsgotangco
<mhz> I recall that too
<jsgotangco> the problem was mostly attribution i believe
<mhz> Yagisan: and that is no related to whishing to have copyright over the content
<mhz> jsgotangco: indeed
<mhz> Yagisan: if a wiki is community driven content
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: yes, that was my motivation for posting
<mhz> we would all be the 'owners' of such content
<Yagisan> mhz: It's simple for me, if I author a doc, someone else must be the person to put it on the wiki, if others wish to use it
<mhz> and therefore, everytime I wish to add or modify (even syntaxis) I'd have to aske permission to every single persone 
<ogra_ibook> wasnt there a decision in the last CC meeting that all wiki content will be CC-SA2.5 from now on ? 
<mhz> yes, ogra 
<ogra_ibook> btw dont mix up copyright with licenses ...
<jsgotangco> yep
<mhz> good point
<ogra_ibook> conent is always copyrighted
<Yagisan> yep - but some wish to public domain the wiki
<Yagisan> that is certainly not the terms I contribute on. my coding skills will never let me become a motu,
<Yagisan> but my other work may - unless my name is removed from said work - in which case - what proof do I have ?
<mhz> Yagisan: your name will always remain in a wiki
<Yagisan> wow - what a tangent from how do you define free
<ogra_ibook> Yagisan, you dont need coding skills to be a packager
<mhz> ogra: as a matter of fact,,, i need to be sure packages I will work on are as independtant as possible from GNOME
<Yagisan> ogra_ibook: no, it does make it harder to fix problems. I'm having issues with my ia32-libs-universe package, that would be easier to fix
<mhz> so I have been told to 'start packaging like that'
<Yagisan> if I knew where to look :(
<mhz> ogra: what skill shoul I need then?
<ogra_ibook> Yagisan, dig the other distros for similar errors in the bugtrackers and find a patch ;)
<Yagisan> mhz: I suggest determination, that's what gets me here
<Yagisan> ogra_ibook: umm, I think I'm the first
<ogra_ibook> oh, k
<Yagisan> ogra_ibook: for kicks, feel free to check this out http://eyagi.bpa.nu/~jamie/voodoo_magic_here/
<ogra_ibook> then ask a specialist ;) Mithrandir is our amd64 guy, lamont does ia64
<mhz> Yagisan: I have determination
<mhz> then what's next?
<Yagisan> and see if you can work out why it *always* looks for sdl in /usr/lib instead of /usr/lib32 like I set up ldflags
<ogra_ibook> mhz, basic scripting knowledge ... know how makefiles are set up and read the debian new maintainers guide
<Yagisan> mhz: patience, and a subscription to debian-mentors helps
<ogra_ibook> thats all you need for packaging
<mhz> okis, thx
<mhz> sounds simple
<mhz> let's see if I can make it :)
<ogra_ibook> also set up a pbuilder to build youor packages in a clean environment ...
<Yagisan> and a fresh chroot to test them
<ogra_ibook> and learn about lintian and lindam, the error checkers
* ogra_ibook always tests in his normal system
<Yagisan> and apt-cacher or similar set up
* Yagisan needs to test 2 distros and 2 arches on 1 box - chroots for me
<ogra_ibook> 2 distros ? 
<Yagisan> Ubuntu + Debian
<Yagisan> but I broke my debian chroots, and don't have bandwidth to fix them until Jan 7
<mhz> wow!!!
<ogra_ibook> who needs debian anyway :)
<mhz> guys that sounds less simple now
<ogra_ibook> mhz, see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto and read the debian NM guide 
<ogra_ibook> that will get you started
<mhz> okis
<mhz> sorry to be running but, is the Debian NM is debian.org I assume?
<Yagisan> lets see, 2 distros * 2 arches * 2 releases = 8 chroots + 8 pbuilders for me
<Yagisan> mhz: yep
<mhz> ogra: did you see that xfce in action ? http://www.dsslive.org.test.ibiblio.org/mediawiki/images/Dsslive-desktop.png
<mhz> I guess that will suit your 'end-user-desktop' description :)
<ogra_ibook> http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/index.en.html
<ogra_ibook> mhz ^^^
<Yagisan> not counting my i386 chroot for apps like wine, which is why I started ia32-libs-universe
<mhz> ogra: thanks for that extra care for me :)
* mhz tabbing to print and run
<Yagisan> bye mhz
<ogra_ibook> hey, i'm still the motu master (at least on paper ;) )
<mhz> bye Yagisan I hope you get less bills and more inputs
<mhz> :)
<mhz> ogra: hehehe
<mhz> you are
<mhz> BTW, ogra you are too many MR.'s
<mhz> :)
<mhz> not only on papr
<ogra_ibook> yes, thats why i'm only motu master on paper... not enough time for active motu stuff
<Yagisan> ogra_ibook: master, would you like to laugh at^W^W check carefully my build logs ?
<ogra_ibook> sure, where are they ? 
<Yagisan> http://eyagi.bpa.nu/~jamie/voodoo_magic_here/deng_1.8.9+1.9.0beta3-1ubuntu2
<mhz> ogra: is that Guide in PDF or friendly print somewhere in your HD?
<Yagisan> mhz: IIRC that is a bigish guide when printed
<ogra_ibook> mhz, i havent used it since ~2years
<ogra_ibook> i dont have a local copy
<Yagisan> mhz: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/maint-guide.en.pdf
<Yagisan> mhz: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/maint-guide.es.pdf <-
<Yagisan> mhz: spanish help ?
<ogra_ibook> Yagisan, looks like youre trying to compile with the 64bit version of sdl
<mhz> Yagisan: thx, N-NOTU
<ogra_ibook> hey \sh 
<mhz> Yagisan: thx, N-MOTU
<mhz> Yagisan: no, I prefer EN.. usually more updated
<Yagisan> ogra_ibook: that's the error, but I deliberately set the path /usr/lib32 where I have a 32bit version
<\sh> moins 
<Yagisan> ogra_ibook: I can't find what is sending sdl to try and link with the 64bit libs
<mhz> \sh: moin
<Yagisan> G'day \sh
* ogra_ibook cries a bit in \sh's direction ...
<ogra_ibook> my server gives up :(
<\sh> ogra_ibook: your HE server?
* Yagisan pats ogra_ibook on the back: there there, it'll be ok
<ogra_ibook> Yagisan, -L/usr/lib /usr/lib/libSDL.so
<ogra_ibook> \sh, yes
<\sh> ogra_ibook: u need smtp, imap and webspace?
<ogra_ibook> i'm pondering to spend another 700 for new server HW
<Yagisan> ogra_ibook: yes, but I can't find what sets /usr/lib/libSDL.so
<ogra_ibook> currently its running an a minimal setup....
<ogra_ibook> but it seems to reboot itself all 5-6h
<ogra_ibook> and sometimes it only shuts down
<ogra_ibook> i guess it overheats or the memory is broken
<Yagisan> ogra_ibook: ebay it !!
<Yagisan> O:-)
<ogra_ibook> nope, i'll buy a new one 
<ogra_ibook> and use the only case for new HW at home
<Yagisan> ogra_ibook: I meant ebay the old one
<Yagisan> people will buy anything there
<mhz> okeys, ogra and Yagisan thx for the extra help
* mhz printing
<mhz> bye al
<mhz> bye all
<Yagisan> no worries mhz
<\sh> ogra_ibook: what do you need..I could help out right now :)
<ogra_ibook> Yagisan, i want to recycle the old one
<Yagisan> ogra_ibook: ok, but if it's broke, it's always nice to have someone pay to take it away
<ogra_ibook> \sh, not sure yet ...
<\sh> ogra_ibook: if you need stable imap/smtp stuff..my server can serve this :)
<ogra_ibook> \sh, my prob is that i have 4G hwdb data on the disk ... i dunno if i want to set it on this heavy load right now to mirror it away
<\sh> ogra_ibook: well...what you can do is to go to the HE DC and check there
<ogra_ibook> \sh, mail is currently running ok ...
<ogra_ibook> shit... it crashed again it seems
<ogra> ogra@aleph:~$ uptime
<ogra>  18:05:55 up 22 min,  1 user,  load average: 0.11, 0.08, 0.10
* ogra cries
<\sh> we have to put the hwdb stuff on revu or on my server asap
<ogra> \sh, i orderes a vserver at HE for it
<ogra> *ordered
<ogra> but they dont delicer in less than 7-14 days
<ogra> *deliver
<\sh> hum...normally they are faster
<ogra> i even called and begged
<ogra> they arent
<\sh> ogra_ibook: what about bringing the hwdb to the C DC?
<ogra> \sh, thats the long term solution
<ogra> currently i dont trust the machine enough to mirror it over the net...
<\sh> ogra_ibook: actually you have to do it on the HE DC :)
<\sh> s/on/in/
<ogra> yup
<ogra> http://cgi.ebay.de/19-1HE-Intel-P4-3-0GHz-160GB-512MB-S-ATA-RAID-Server_W0QQitemZ5845484175QQcategoryZ8074QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
<ogra> i'll buy that one and put the HD in to mirror it directly i think 
<ogra> the nice thing is, even with the additional vserver for 20 i'll save 20 in the end and have redundancy ...
<ogra> \sh, the prob with pop/smtp is, that the machine is also the DNS and has the MX entries ... its not just easy redirecting ...
<\sh> ogra_ibook: hmmm....updating primary ns records at denic :) 
* Yagisan would rather an amd cpu
<ogra> \sh, which takes me a lot effort ...
<ogra> \sh, i'll rather buy that server and replace my oldie
<\sh> ogra: well...if it gets the same ip address :)
<Yagisan> ogra: dumb question time - can't you temporally replace your broken system with a spare pc ?
<ogra> Yagisan, i have no phys. access to the DC its in ... and the vserver i wanted as a quick replacement doesnt get set up this year anymore
<\sh> ogra_ibook: you have :) drive to airport business park :)
<ogra> so all i can do is buy a replacement box now (its needed anyway) and set it up as fast as i can
<ogra> \sh, doesnt gain me anything without having a replacement
<\sh> ogra: true
<Yagisan> ogra: so pull your spare parts out of the garage
<Yagisan> ogra: It's probally heat, so bring some fans
<ogra> Yagisan, i wont replace rubbish with rubbish
<ogra> Yagisan, i have touched this machine 5 years ago the last time .... i dont want to touch it the next 5 if possible afetr this is fixed
<ogra> *havent
<Yagisan> ogra: just a band-aid until you get a new box
<ogra> what ? sitting with a hairdryer in the DC ?
* Yagisan imagines ogra, with a hairdryer in the DC
<\sh> grmpf...
<\sh> something is accessing one partition..and fuser doesn't tell me which app..and I'm unable to umount this partition now
<Yagisan> \sh: lsof ?
<\sh> Yagisan: that was it...
<HendrikHAZ> Hi guys!
<HendrikHAZ> Ogra, last time you told me to check in Synaptics installer for Kubuntu desktop. I did that, but did not find any packages. Where can I add the packages to the Synaptics manager in order to download them? I am running Edubutu Breezy
<HendrikHAZ> Oh, I forgot. I would like to install the Kubuntu desktop on an edubuntu installation
<HendrikHAZ> Can anyone help me with this?
<ogra> the kubuntu packages are not on the CD
<ogra> you need th eonline repositories for it
<HendrikHAZ> Sorry again, I am a complete newbie to Linux and Ubuntu. Where can I get them?
<ogra> in the settings menu in synaptic ...
<HendrikHAZ> Ok I am there and then?
<ogra> select repositorys 
<ogra> you'll get a popup window
<ogra> look whats listed there (i suspect its only the CD)
<ogra> if so, click the "add" button on the right 
<ogra> and add the online repos
<HendrikHAZ> Yes, it said Edubuntu cdrom Breezy. I assume I have to add
<ogra> exactly
<ogra> if you want to kbe able to install from all 17000 packages we offer, check all the checkboxes
<HendrikHAZ> Ubuntu 5.1, sec updates or updates?
<ogra> just breezy badger ...
<ogra> updates and sec. updates is something you can do additionally ...
<HendrikHAZ> k, it's downloading the repositories now. Kubuntu desktop will be in there?
<ogra> yup
<ogra> you'll find it with the search function then
<HendrikHAZ> K, seems I found them. I just need to install the Kubuntu desktop, right? Or are there other packages too?
<HendrikHAZ> sorry, it highlighted a whole bunch more. Will try it out. Could this potentially hose my installation or will it just add the Kubuntu desktop to choices for interface?
<ogra> you will have gnome and kde then ...
<HendrikHAZ> K ogra thx a lot! I will get back to ya if I have any more trouble. You have been a gr8 help m8!
<ogra> :)
<ogra> i'm happy about every user we get ;)
<spacey_ki> http://art.ubuntu.com/images/backgrounds/Edubuntu-Children_Of_Edubuntu_1024x768.png
<spacey_ki> hehe
#edubuntu 2006-12-25
<Burgundavia> cbx33: PING
<Burgundavia> ping, rather
<cbx33> hey Burgundavia
<cbx33> merry christmas
<Burgundavia> merry christmas
<Burgundavia> I was thinking about scp, telepathy and vino
<cbx33> ah yes
<cbx33> sorry to be rude
<cbx33> I'm just shutting down for christmas
<cbx33> can you mail me....
<Burgundavia> sure
<cbx33> I have to be in bed by 12:00
<cbx33> says the missus
<cbx33> ;
<cbx33> ;)
<cbx33> nn bronze
<cbx33> nn Burgundavia
<cbx33> merry chirstmass to aLL
<Burgundavia> anybody know who davidcary is?
<Burgundavia> right
<jason> i just installed linux, i got my video card driver installed but everything seems really slow
<jason> can someone explain what i may be doing wrong
<Burgundavia> jason: did you just install Edubuntu or ubuntu?
<jason> ubuntu
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> what is your video card?
<jason> ati 9800 pro
<Burgundavia> by "everything seems slow": what exactly is slwo?
<jason> well mainly video its like a windows system with microsoft drivers
<jason> thats the best way i can put it
<Burgundavia> I don;t understand
<Burgundavia> what specific applications are slow?
<jason> well, none specifically. i have a lot of lag when moving my mouse and it takes a good 20 seconds to even open firefox
<jason> it just feels as if im on a slow computer
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> how much ram do you have?
<Burgundavia> what is your processor?
<jason> half a gig and athlon 64 3500
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> you can try the binary ati drivers
<jason> what is that?
<jason> binary?
<Burgundavia> most of the drivers are open source. ATI provide their own drivers, which are non-open source
<Burgundavia> those are called binary drivers
<jason> i just got the drivers that ati had for download for linux x86
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> ignore those
<jason> where do i go?
<Burgundavia> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BinaryDriverHowto/ATI#head-c966b2cb7c82944d6883f27a2896725db3b90a3a
<jason> thank you ill give it a try
<Burgundavia> hey Amaranth
<Amaranth> howdy
<jason> how do i know if i have the dapper amd64 or just 386 version?
<cbx33> Merry Christmas to all
<cbx33> ping Burgundavia
<Burgundavia> hey cbx33
<cbx33> hi
<cbx33> I'm hre for a few mins
<cbx33> just don't tell the missus
<cbx33> heh
<Burgundavia> heh
<Burgundavia> you can go
<cbx33> what was you're thought
<Burgundavia> I am watching clerks 2
<cbx33> no I'm interested
<cbx33> ah
<cbx33> hahaha
<rockprincess> ogra, are you here?
<rockprincess> good evening everyone!
<rockprincess> what was the german edubuntu wiki page?
<ulinskie> Happy Holidays!
#edubuntu 2006-12-26
<highvoltage> hey jsgotangco
<highvoltage> and Yagisan :)
<jsgotangco> ho ho ho
<highvoltage> heh :)
<highvoltage> do you guys celebrate Christmas that side of the world? or at least take holiday?
<kgoetz> hi both
<jsgotangco> hah of course, im only halfway of my 2 week vacation
<highvoltage> vedy nice
<jsgotangco> we're predominantly catholic over here
<highvoltage> oh wow. I didn't realise that
<jsgotangco> you'll be suprised
<highvoltage> not sure what I expected though. lol.
<Yagisan> G'day highvoltage, jsgotangco , and everyone lese I haven't chatted with in  ages
<Yagisan> s/lese/else
<jsgotangco> you go to south korea even, it has a christian majority
<Yagisan> I had to cancel christmas this year
<jsgotangco> Yagisan: hey, well I blame my Wii for not being active in ages
<jsgotangco> hah
* highvoltage is jealous of jsgotangco's wii
<highvoltage> wii don't have wii in .za yet :(
* highvoltage blames Microsoft
<jsgotangco> sucks
<highvoltage> we only have xbox and ps3, and it's the exact two consoles I don't want to buy
<jsgotangco> i bought it like $50 more though
<jsgotangco> and i only have wii sports and zelda at the moment
<jsgotangco> i downloaded the opera browser 2 days ago
<jsgotangco> very nice
<jsgotangco> maybe next year someone will be able to figure out how to run mozilla on this wii
<jsgotangco> man i should reinstall this laptop soon dapper is looking very old lately
<Yagisan> ps3 ? doesn't ubuntu already run on that ?
<highvoltage> the PPC version runs on it, afaik
<jsgotangco> no
<jsgotangco> Wii
<Yagisan> I wonder how it would go as an ltsp server
<jsgotangco> oh
<jsgotangco> it would be interesting
<highvoltage> heh, a console as an ltsp server :)
<Yagisan> probally as good as the duron I use now
<jsgotangco> yeah i would cry even
<jsgotangco> man i should do something productive for 2 weeks
<Yagisan> I need to find a new house :/
<jsgotangco> err?
<Yagisan> long story short - landlord wants the flat back, so he gave me an eviction notice on Dec 23
<Yagisan> so I cancelled christmas
<jsgotangco> ugghhh
<Yagisan> as I now need the money to move
<Yagisan> I have almost two months to go, as it was the landlord that broke the lease
<Yagisan> but, yeah, christmas this year sucked
<highvoltage> Yagisan: I canceled xmas for very much the same reason
<Yagisan> glad the kids didn't notice santa didn't come
<highvoltage> Yagisan: except that I chose to move, under circumstances
<jsgotangco> 2 months of looking for a new flat is enough, the sucky part is that the rent will be surely higher than usual
<Yagisan> I'm sure it will be higher :/ and for a crappier property
* Yagisan needs to find a larger place, for 4 people
<highvoltage> I've been considering buying a place, but property here is so very expensive these days.
* Yagisan drags himself off to cook some food
<Yagisan> I can't even afford a deposit on a place here
<highvoltage> same here.
<jsgotangco> i can't even afford to buy a home at the moment
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> although its ironic
<highvoltage> many people here tend to just rent a place and buy a fancy car instead.
<jsgotangco> my folks have a house in a nearby province
<jsgotangco> which is pretty much my own already
<jsgotangco> but my wife won't even think of moving there
<jsgotangco> brb
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: what does a cheap small house cost there?
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: seen this? http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/breakingnews/metroregions/view_article.php?article_id=40275
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> im watching TFC on cable now here
<jsgotangco> it seems there are 2 quakes but nothing spectacular
<jsgotangco> its around 11pm in Manila now and the late evening news there is sayingthat there is nothing to worry about
<jsgotangco> since its sooo far away
<Hoobly> where can I download the themes that come with edubuntu?
<pipedream> jan@kontiki:~$apt-cache show edubuntu-
<pipedream> edubuntu-artwork          edubuntu-desktop          edubuntu-menus
<pipedream> edubuntu-artwork-usplash  edubuntu-docs             edubuntu-server
<pipedream> oops
<pipedream> aptitude, I mean
<Hoobly> I actually have ubuntu installed.
<pipedream> so do I
<pipedream> those are in main
<Hoobly> I'll check it out
<Hoobly> thank you
<bddebian> Heya
#edubuntu 2006-12-27
<CrazytalesAway> last five hours only activity is joins/parts
<lguerra> hi all
<cstextiles> My Edubuntu 6.06  Installtion stops after "Setting up ltsp-server(0.87)" message
<cstextiles> A blank screen comes and then nothing happens even when i m in the F4 windows
<juliux> mornin
<juliux> g
<cstextiles> My Edubuntu 6.06  Installtion stops after "Setting up ltsp-server(0.87)" message
<cstextiles> A blank screen comes and then nothing happens even when i m in the F4 windows
<juliux> cstextiles, what is the last thing you can read at f4 window?
<cstextiles> Setting up ltsp-server(0.87)
<cstextiles> But after some time the screen goes blank
<cstextiles> and remains blank indefinitely
<juliux> how long you wait?
<cstextiles> for half an hour
<cstextiles> I was in the F4 mode and then the screen got blank
<cstextiles> Then I tried F1 or other function keys but nothing happened
<juliux> hm then i have no idea what it could be
<cstextiles> Before that this message comes "Warning: fake start-stop daemon called doing nothing"
<bddebian> Heya
<jori> hello anybody here know if a ltsp server can use the local sound card of the client ?
<jori> hello anybody here know if a ltsp server can use the local sound card of the client ?
<juliux> jori, it depends on the soundcard, but general you can use the sound card from the client
<jori> juliux: whats the magicline in the config i can use esd over the network but that just won't do the job for firefox flashplayer
<juliux> jori, in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf add the option SOUND=True
<jori> already there it only works for esd not for dsp sound
<juliux> jori, see http://www.edubuntu.org/ThinClientConfig
<juliux> i think there is only esd support and now dsp support
<juliux> but you can use esd on your thinclient
<jori> juliux: how the hell do i tell firefox and flashplayer inside of firefox to talk over esd sins if i just say use esd they try to start esd locally
<juliux> jori, test to set it in the gnome audio settings under system->settings->audio
<jori> juliux: i'm runnen xfce4 :P but esd works tested in xmms
<juliux> try to start firefox from a terminal with esddsp firefox
<jori> no feedback from the console ( firefox sound is now setup to auto it was setup to none ) and no sound
<jori> do i need to set it to dsp ?
<juliux> you can try it
<P3L|C4N0> greetings
<jori> hmmm noting already try -m but stil nu result
<juliux> i never used sound on the thinclient, because i have an unsupportet audio chip in my thinclients
<jori> juliux: most of my thin clients are use for interneting but i'm getting complanes about flashplayer audio
<jori> strange it is that firefox is like the only app that try's and START esd :S al othere apps just take the remote esd connect like its the default 1
<christopher> Hello, question on minimum spec for edubuntu?
<christopher> how much ram is needed?
<stgraber> 256MB
<juliux> christopher, 32mb for a client, server 256MB + 128MB for every thinclient
<jori> stgraber: serieusly damit edubuntu is a memory eater :p
<christopher> ok, for a stand alone with X 64mb won't be much use?
<jori> christopher: my advies woud be try xubuntu
<juliux> christopher, not with gnome with xfce perhaps
<jori> juliux: lol :P
<christopher> no, we *need* the education stuff to work out of the box.
<juliux> christopher, you can use the apps also with xfce
<christopher> does edubuntu have xfce?
<juliux> you can install it
<juliux> but the default is gnome
<christopher> ok, thats no use really.
<jori> juliux: it woud probley be easy to install xubuntu and then de edu stuff
<juliux> jori, that is also possible
<christopher> we're looking at sending the disks to Schools in Africa, i.e. no internet.
<christopher> it needs to work out the box.
<jori> christopher: pre make you're own xedubuntu then ;)
<Rondom> isn't there some spec for xedubuntu for feisty?
<jori> Rondom: if i say pre make you're own it means there is none offical release ;)
<Rondom> jori: I know
<jori> christopher: you coud include the right .debs en edit the installer to install them :)
<christopher> i know i *could* but is that realistic?
<jori> why not ? if you really need to edu stuff i think its you're change unless samebody else know a othere way around it
<christopher> any ideas as to where to point me as for a guide to do such a thing?
<Rondom> jori: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Xedubuntu?highlight=%28Xedubuntu%29
<Rondom> ^ i think this was what I was remembering
<jori> Rondom: i ownstyle just made the name op because its a mix of edubbuntu and xubuntu :P
<christopher> hm, where can i find the *.deb files?
<Rondom> jori: I know
<jori> edubuntu disk en xubuntu disk probley
<jori> btw don't you give them pc's ? only a os ?
<christopher> yeh we give them pc's, but they are all donated.
<christopher> i.e. 64mb of ram is impressive
<jori> christopher: pre install them you're self then :S
<christopher> still need the deb files...
<jori> just look on the disks
<christopher> i only have an edubuntu disk
* christopher starts downloading xubuntu install
<jori> hehehe you're faster then me this time :P
<christopher> :P
<christopher> so then if i extract the xfce *.deb files from that, put them on a cd then install them onto the edubuntu install that won't run due to lack of ram ?
<christopher> will magic happen?
<jori> hehehe you need the install disk that 1 wil run under you're normal ram etleast xfce4 i did't do mutch whit edubuntu
<jori> i'm only here because i'm using xfce4 ltsp
<jori> xubuntu ltsp *
<christopher> so your saying install xubu 1st then install the educational stuff from edub cd?
<jori> jeb :)
<jori> that woud be the way i woud do it
<christopher> hmm, this isn't looking as easy as I was selling it to be
<jori> hehehe never sell the dear before you shoot it ;)
<christopher> http://streetlites.org/ , we've been screwed over by M$ when it comes to licences so i've been pushing to get Linux out there instead, finally they start to listen then oops.
<christopher> I'll try selling them the idea of a custom cd for us...
<christopher> might work...
<jori> persoonal i'm agianst project like that but hey thats a hole othere story...
<christopher> hmm, can swap make up for ram ?
<jori> yes and no
<jori> anybody here know a simple way of explaning the hole swap story :P
<christopher> when it comes to gnome long enough to install xfce?
<jori> swap is alwase slower then ram so it maby run but then it wil run like crap
<christopher> hmmm
<christopher> installing Edubuntu now...
<christopher> see how badly it falls over.
<jori> its installing thats a +
<christopher> under "low memory" mode./
<jori> wtf is low memory mode :P
<christopher> i don't know, seen as it's a text based installer I don't see there is much to disable...
<jori> just see what happens w8 a sec stopid fuckers in my cs server agian need to play admin agian
<christopher> ok, got xubuntu cd
<christopher> iso
<Rondom> jori: the spec (https://blueprints.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/edubuntu-xfce-desktop) was deferred :-(
<christopher> would I just need the deb's relating to xfce4 ?
<christopher> i.e. pool/main/x/xfce4*
<christopher> k3b
<christopher> k3b
<christopher> argh
<yodaz> hi all
<yodaz> I can get ltsp to work with dapper, ldm does not log on, it flashes the screen and then return to log in prompt, anybody have an idea ?
<yodaz> I have done ltsp-update-sshkeys without success
<yodaz> I have tried with xdmcp, but I have no keyboard when I want to type the login/pass
<yodaz> I don't know what's wrong :(
<yodaz> is there a way to have some debug log or so with ltsp ?
<juliux> yodaz, do you have sabayon installed?
<juliux> yodaz, did you tested to set the x-color-depth to 16 ?
<yodaz> juliux: sabayon is not installed
<yodaz> I try to force to 16 bit, with lts.conf, but same stuff
<yodaz> I have set this : X_COLOR_DEPTH     = 16
<juliux> ok
<yodaz> the distrib is ubuntu dapper, with normal repository (dapper-updates, backports, security, and universe/multiverse)
<yodaz> juliux: do you know if there's a way to have a logfile of errors that could happens on ltsp client ?
<yodaz> juliux: I have succeed with xdmcp, and the option SCREEN_O7 = startx
<cbx33> hi anyone ;)
<yodaz> hi cbx33
<yodaz> ++
<achandra> Hello is there a PPC version of edubuntu that allows you to either install or run thin client for G4s over the network??
<Burgwork> achandra: yes
<achandra> Burghwork: where can I find the "how to" to do the afore mentioned question
<achandra> Burgwork: I have sucessfully converted a few G4s in the lab using cdroms, but the tedium of it.....id much rather do a network install.
<Burgwork> do you want thin clients or fat clients?
<achandra> Burgwork: well...considering the school cant spend money on a dual xeon to support all clients..itll have to be fat for now.
<Burgwork> right
<achandra> Burgwork: so lets assume a network install, with TFTP, DHCP .
<achandra> over NFS or HTTP.
<Burgwork> you could also use kickstart
<achandra> centos...right?
<Burgwork> kickstart works in ubuntu
<achandra> you just answered my question..
<Burgwork> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KickstartCompatibility
<achandra> ahhh
<achandra> okay
<achandra> so you can adapt a response file to install
<achandra> and on MAC what is the "majic" key to do the network install?
<achandra> i know "c" is for cdrom and
<achandra> network??
<achandra> (sorry a little lazy)....i can google that...but you can save mne some grief
#edubuntu 2006-12-28
<ilsimon22> hi everybody, anyone from latin america?
<Burgundavia> wrong time of night
<ilsimon22> I see...
<Burgundavia> it is between 10pm and 1am there right now
<ilsimon22> in brazil its 3am
<ilsimon22> im looking for people that works w/ edubuntu in brazil... but ill try other, time, thanks anyway...
<ilsimon22> good night
<cbx33> Hey all
<cbx33> ping anyone
<michaelpo> how do you make gaim auto join a # of certain server?
<jayaeu> Why does https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuReleaseAnnouncement lead to version 5.10?
<jayaeu> Same here https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuReleaseNotes
<bddebian> Heya
<mathesis> do you speak spanish or english the channel?
<crimsun> this is an English-"speaking" channel.
<mathesis> there is a channel spanish?
<stgraber> !es
<ubotu> Para Espaol por favor usen #ubuntu-es, #kubuntu-es o #edubuntu-es, all obtendrn mas ayuda.
<stgraber> but I don't know if there is someone in it
#edubuntu 2006-12-29
<hj> hello, anybody here ?
<kgoetz> hi
<hj> oh.. hi kgoetz..
<kgoetz> :\
<hj> i had several questions but the wiki allready solved them
<hj> im doing a research for a proyect of the world bank  focused in mexico
<hj> innovation to reduce poverty...
<kgoetz> :)
<hj> i was trying to find out if it was possible to create customized livecd focused on children
<hj> and so it happens it does....
<hj> do you think that it would possible to sponsor a specific distribution of edubuntu ?
<kgoetz> sponsor a derivative of edubuntu?
<hj> yup
<hj> yes sponsor "pay" some developers to create e costum version for edubuntu
<hj> for this specific project of the world bank
<kgoetz> i dont know, depending on what you want to derive for it might be better to help them build edubuntu
<kgoetz> hm.well
<kgoetz> if you choose to sponsor devs, tahts your call.
<kgoetz> how you go about that, i dont know, but it is ok
<kgoetz> hi crimsun
<crimsun> 'lo.
<kgoetz> :)
<hj> well in brief...   the proyect intends to involve young people in an innovative way to help reduce poverty...
<hj> the country in which the proyect will be held is mexico
<hj> most of the poverty problemas in mexico is because people lack of access to information, hence they are not able to develop new skills
<hj> the idea behind this proposal for the proyect is to give children livecd and equip schools and parks with very low cost terminals
<hj> in this way in cooperation with schools...   children could learn to develop skills and have access to knowledge
<kgoetz> sounds like what netday (sp?) in south africa
<hj> well yes.. in some way... mexico has very similar conditions of poverty of african and some Asiatic countries
<hj> this livecd is one of the possible proposals, the second one is a children version of wikipedia
<hj> although it might require greater funds
<kgoetz> hj: how far do you think you would have to derive from edubuntu? or are you just trying to find ideas at the moment?
<hj> well i found that many of the applications needed allready exist...
<hj> hold sec please
<kgoetz> np
<hj> im back
<hj> apps such as KDE Edutainment Pack
<kgoetz> you would want them included?
<hj> yup
<hj> i think NEW development wouldnt be necesarry at least at the first phase...
<hj> just tons of costumization...
<kgoetz> sounds like you want to derive quite a way off a standard cd
<hj> the real challenge would be to teach teachers how to use the tools,  and get some infraestructure for centralized information
<hj> do you think this is a big problem ?
<kgoetz> not as such.
<hj> i've only used slax, im quite new in this opensource OS world
<hj> never the less in new developments and similar
<kgoetz> i'm not a dev, so i cant comment on the current state of edubuntu and whats in it
<kgoetz> ogra is the man to ping on that front
<hj> graet.. ill make sure to organize more ideas and contact him..
<hj> .do you have any other ideas ?
<kgoetz> hj:  try emailling the edubuntu/ubuntu-education lists
<kgoetz> and see if you can catch RichEd-1  as well
<hj> thanks a lot..
<hj> and how are you involved in the proyect ?
<kgoetz> np. hope it helped
<kgoetz> edubuntu? i used to run it on some of my computers, not i hang around to ask indirectly  related questions
<kgoetz> and because i hope to start getting edubuntu into schools here
<hj> and where are you located ?
<kgoetz> Australia
<hj> and what has been your experience ?
<kgoetz> with eduubuntu? i used the 6.06 release, and it worked well.
<hj> and how have schools recieved it ?
<kgoetz> i'm hoping for a less 'childish' version, for middle/upper school
<kgoetz> i havent deplyed it here yet. i want to do it properly first time ;)
<hj> yes, precisly, a distribution for students 12 - 18 would be perfect for my project
<kgoetz> hj: i know there was talks of work on one, i just dont know how it went
<kgoetz> perhaps if you can work with edubuntu, you can wortk with them to make the version
<hj> I have to live for now Karl, but i appreciate a lot your help... i'll et you know of i have any success on promoting edubuntu in mexico and the world bank..
<hj> if the world bank likes it i could get some funds...
<hj> i gotta move from location... maybe ill return later...
<hj> thansk
<kgoetz> good luck hd
<kgoetz> *hj
<kgoetz> look forward to see ing you again
<ry0672> hi all
<hj> hi there
<ry0672> anyone up?
<ry0672> hey
<ry0672> got a question
<hj> im kinda in here, but im a complete neophyte... jajaj im afraid i cant answer much
<ry0672> k
<hj> jajaja but shoot, im sure between the both of us can find an answer in the wiki and docs
<ry0672> thanx
<ry0672> I want to install edubuntu for my sister's daugher that's 9 years old
<kgoetz> ry0672: you should ask a question, if someone can help, they will
<ry0672> i c
<ry0672> better yet is edubuntu a safe OS for young children?
<ry0672> I am looking for some way that restricts young kids from accessing say prOn sites and the like
<ry0672> is edubuntu the way to go? Or should I be looking elsewhere?
<hj> whoa, i belive than regardless the OS you use the real danger is in the web outhere... if edubuntu (please confirm) doesnt come with a type of firewall o contrnol access system you would liek to get one...
<kgoetz> you could put filters in place, but i havent tried
<hj> does edubuntu come with parental control out of the box ?
<kgoetz> 606 didnt, i dont know about 6.10
<ry0672> filters, good guess I can do a search on that
<ry0672> "parental control" ty thats what i meant to ask
<ry0672> brb gotta google,lol
<kgoetz> if you dont mind some confiuration, theres squid+[chastitybelt,dans gardian] 
<ry0672> I C... squid+[chastitybelt,dans gardian] 
<kgoetz> ry0672: do you have ubuntu/edubuntu installed at the moment?
<ry0672> no, I have Ubuntu on my laptop, and i'm currently on my gf's pc and am dl'ing the edubuntu Live CD
<kgoetz> http://packages.ubuntu.com/dapper/web/dansguardian
<ry0672> WoW
<ry0672> TY
<kgoetz> http://packages.ubuntu.com/dapper/web/squid
<ry0672> nice
<kgoetz> have a look around packages.ubuntu.com if you want to see whats in it :) or look in synaptic
<ry0672> again thanx
<kgoetz> np
<ry0672> will do!
<kgoetz> :)
<hj> uu squid is really something  i used to recomend it for local goverment agencies..
<kgoetz> hj: meaning you like it, or you think its to big?
<hj> both..
<hj> but i've never tried it in a closed envoriment ... maybe it can work well
<kgoetz> i dont know much about filtering proxies - i aimed to educate users at work, rather then block them
<kgoetz> and slap them about now and then if i find bad stuff happening
<kgoetz> mind you, my work isnt a big corp, so there is some room to manouver
<hj> well, as long its a local network squid should be able to do a great job...
<hj> im unsure about the same computer that runs as server should be a client itself, even more if its for a child...
<hj> but for a small network of even 3 - 5 computers squid gets the job pretty good...
<kgoetz> i dont feel sane sugesting someone increase their network complexity - i'm happy to, but i dont like recomending it to someone who just wants a childenres comp.
<hj> exactly
<hj> uuuh....  "DansGuardian requires squid or another similar caching proxy server on your local network."
<kgoetz> yep.
<hj> and DansGuardian seems to capsulate more funtions suchs as AV with clam...
<hj> seems more like a "smart" frontend to various components...
<hj> i would try densguardian....
* kgoetz should probably get familar with filtering stuff
<hj> Ubuntu Christian Edition also includes fully integrated web content parental controls powered by Dansguardian. A graphical tool to adjust the parental control settings has also been developed specifically for Ubuntu Christian Edition. These features are truly what sets Ubuntu Christian Edition apart.
<hj> If this guys did it im sure you can manage to do something
<hj> ups... he is gone ...
<kgoetz> wonder if we have poached that frontend yet
<hj> kgoetz:  so, what is it that you do for a living ?
<kgoetz> hj: i have been living off my savings. (ie not earning a living). i work as a volunteer for several groups
<kgoetz> and for the next 6 months i'll be a full time student
<kgoetz> perhaps with a 3 week visit to papua new guinea to setup a network over there using ubuntu+debian
<hj> WOW...
<hj> i've never been there, but it sounds as if they have a lot of new world - old world cutlures
<kgoetz> 'full time student' - i'll probalby get half the course or more on recognition for prior learning
<hj> how old are you ?
<kgoetz> the trip will be pretty intence if i get to go
<kgoetz> 20
<hj> okz
<hj> thats pretty cool, being able to travel and work as a volunteer
<kgoetz> yeh. i'v been volunteering for 2 years already
<kgoetz> i'll have to cut back when i get real work though :\
<kgoetz> s/real/paid
<kgoetz> i have to break that habit. its real work wether i get money or not
<hj> yes indeed, but anyways... we must do it while we can.. (no family to take care of)
<kgoetz> h'm
<hj> most of my time and hobbies are currently sponsored by a media lab, located in mexico...
<hj> restatemedia.com restatemedia.net
<hj> i get enough money for a living, but i really need to get more income before i get old and start needed more money
<hj> but hey... its a great way to spend time.. volunteering
<kgoetz> brb in a few min
<kgoetz> just making food. will be a bit longer
<kgoetz> ffs. i needed info on that shell. it died ;(
<kgoetz> must have been the blackout
<hj> ?
<kgoetz> hj: i was logged into a shell before. the host has gone down.
<kgoetz> it only goes down when the UPS runs out.
<hj> oooh
<hj> i'll get a new "old laptop" just to play around with edubuntu
<hj> or maybe i'll just go straight fwd to compile a customized liveUSB..
<artbird309> What would be better to install for a server at school edubuntu or ubuntu it is for a 150 seats desktops?
<kgoetz> artbird309: what age group?
<artbird309> kgoetz: 6-12
<kgoetz> try edubuntu
<cbx33> hey peeps
<hj> I read somewhere you could create quizes with some package, has anyone tried it ?
<artbird309> kgoetz: does that have all the stuff that ubuntu server has
<cbx33> artbird309, the base installs of both are largely similar
<cbx33> what are you after specifically?
<artbird309> I ldap sever with samba
<artbird309> I think I am open for a better set-up
<cbx33> hi ogra
<cbx33> bye ogra
<bddebian> Heya
<rockprincess> hey
<bddebian> Whoa, a Princess? :)
<rockprincess> yep ;)
* bddebian bows
<rockprincess> heheh ;)
<rockprincess> sweet!
<cbx33> hey all
<sorl> can someone direct me on how to install a printer on a thin client?
<sorl> (locally)
<mm112> hello
#edubuntu 2006-12-30
<Whopper> hi
<Whopper> is edubuntu easier on older pcs then kubuntu?
<crimsun> in my experience, marginally but not noticably
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<rockprincess> hello everyone!
<juliux> hi rockprincess
<rockprincess> hey juliux!
<rockprincess> how are you?
<juliux> fine
<juliux> i have to go shopping today;) last day with 16% vat
<rockprincess> hehe how much will you have then? 19%
<rockprincess> ?
<juliux> yes
<rockprincess> we have 20% here
<juliux> but i think you have another tax less then we
<juliux> 19%vat is a lot
<rockprincess> how do you mean another tax less?
<juliux> for example the tax you have to pay for salary
<rockprincess> ahh true!
<rockprincess> juliux: when will you be back online after your shopping tour?
<juliux> rockprincess, i think around 16-17
<juliux> rockprincess, but perhaps my girlfriend is back then and then we will play some games we get on christmas;)
<rockprincess> juliux: ok, cool! i have finished my concept for edubuntu project and i would love to get some feedback before i have to hand it in....
<rockprincess> juliux: hehehe cool ;) what games did you get? xbox360, ps2? nintendo vii?
<juliux> rockprincess, siedler von catan and ligretto ;)
<juliux> old school games
<rockprincess> coolio :)
<rockprincess> i only know siedler von catan though
<juliux> we get the version for two players
<juliux> its a little bit different from the normal one
<rockprincess> oh cool, it increases the fun then?!!!! ;)
<juliux> a little bit, you have more actions you can do
<bddebian> Heya
#edubuntu 2006-12-31
<hj> good day people...
<hj> Any developers around ?
<hj> any one alive ?
<highvoltage> wow. http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/etch_di_rc1/i386/iso-cd/
<highvoltage> (21 binary cd's!!!)
<the_5th_wheel> has anyone had issues with the student control panel when starting applicatiopns on multiple clients?
<edubuntugirl> happy new year, everyone!
<juliux> edubuntugirl, it is still 2006;)
<edubuntugirl> juliux: k
<highvoltage> indeed
<highvoltage> another 4.5 hours to 2007
<juliux> cu in 2007;)
#edubuntu 2007-12-24
<svg> Hi Folks - I'm looking for some opinions on the sizing of an edubuntu server - anyone around on this?
<Kamping_Kaiser> !ask
<ubotu> Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<svg> Kamping_Kaiser: I know, just not if this is the proper channel
<Kamping_Kaiser> dont see why it wouldnt be ;)
<svg> well, I guess I went around too much channels with bofh style people :)
<svg> anyway, need to make an offer for an edubuntu server project - school with classroom of about 30 clients, for a total of maybe 200 user accounts
<svg> with possible growth to a second 30 clients classroom
<svg> my take, I'll need lots of RAM, not sure if going 64bit is a good idea, as tis server is "desktop oriented" and students might want to use flash and other stuff
<svg> not sure if SCSI is a must, not sur how to size processors
<svg> as far as I'm told, pupils will use pretty much only the default edubuntu installed software
<svg> firefox being the most important app
<Kamping_Kaiser> imho you want to over engineer it if your budget allows.
<Kamping_Kaiser> with 30 concurernt users, probably 4-8gb of ram would be desired. if flash is involved that number could go up (no idea, we dont allow flash where i am)
<Kamping_Kaiser> well, much flash
<Kamping_Kaiser> someone else can probably comment on flash support under 64 bit, but it would be ideal to use 64 bit cpus. probably 2 (a dual core would do i expect)
<Kamping_Kaiser> scsi isnt a 'must', but if theres lots of disc work, its a 'nice'
<stgraber> according to the handbook, RAM should be : 256+(60*x), I'd personally go with : 512+(60*x)
<stgraber> so 4gb should do it
<stgraber> dual-CPU is also a good idea especially bi dual-core CPU (so 4 virtual CPUs), 64bit is fine but will need some hack to have firefox running correctly (nspluginwrapper)
<Kamping_Kaiser> no, dual dual core is 4 physical cores. nothing virtual about them.
<Kamping_Kaiser> !flash
<ubotu> To install Flash see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats/Flash - Flash 9 is now available in dapper-backports and edgy-backports - See also !Restricted and !Gnash
<ubotu> The Flash plugin installation is currently broken. This is due to Adobe changing the tar file that the package downloads. See http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=636397 if you need to fix this immediately, but it's recommended to wait for an official fix.
<Kamping_Kaiser> waho. double entry?
<svg> ok, thanks for that, this confirms my own general first idea
<svg> I'll definitely wil go to multicore
<svg> actually, I'm using Intl serevrs with quad cores already
<svg> fyi, i was told also to look here, which looks quite complete: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/ServerSizing
<svg> 64bit sounds like a big plus, and flash seems apt-get-eable since gutsy
<ericb2> hello
<Kamping_Kaiser> morning
<ericb2> FYI, I do represent OpenOffice.org project, Education projet exactly
<ericb2> and I wanted to say we'll add your project on our mainsite
<ericb2> http://education.openoffice.org/gen_index.html
<YoP_YoP> bijour
<Kamping_Kaiser> ericb2, not sure who to talk to about that
<Kamping_Kaiser> riched, when hes around i guess
<ericb2> Kamping_Kaiser: ok, thank a lot.  Anyway, we'll keep a link for edubuntu on our site
<ericb2> Kamping_Kaiser: the current website is old and crappy, but we are working for a new one
<Kamping_Kaiser> ericb2, hope it helps :)
 * Kamping_Kaiser is only slightly involved in this project, so cant really talk for it
<ericb2> Kamping_Kaiser: no problem. I'll be back soon here.
 * ericb2 wishes a Merry Christmas and a Happy new Year to all of you . Bye :-)
<ericb2> bye
<YoP_YoP> bye :)
<paolob-parroquia> hi ogra! Could you tell me if I can use two nics with two groups of clients with the same edubuntu server?
<Kamping_Kaiser> i'm not ogra, but i dont see why not
<pygi> hello folks
<pygi> how ya all doing? :)
<das-t_> kind of relaxed and well ;-)
<pygi> nice :)
<das-t_> hope you are too ;-)
<pygi> ofcourse, just a bit busy :)
<svg> hi all - if i'm running 64bit edubuntu server - what's the consequences on the clients? can i mix 32 bit clients with 64 bit clients? do the 32bit clients benefit?
<johnny_> hell.. 64bit clients hardly benefit
<johnny_> the concensus so far is that nobody benefits
<johnny_> it just turns out to be more hassle than its' worth to use 64bit mode at all for desktop apps on linux
<johnny_> or windows for that matter really ..
#edubuntu 2007-12-25
<svg> !help
<ubotu> I am ubotu, all-knowing infobot. You can browse my brain at http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi - Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots
<nepali> I can't umount the usb drive in ltsp client any idea,
<nepali> it says can't find the real path of the device
<paolob> Hi ogra! is it possible to use two nics for the clients in edubuntu, putting each nic's configuration in the dhcp config? do you think it should work? thank you!
<paolob> Hi ogra! is it possible to use two nics for the clients in edubuntu, putting each nic's configuration in the dhcp config? do you think it should work? thank you!
<Qoole> hi there, don't know if anyone else has had a similar issue. I've (freshly) installed Edubuntu on a Dell Poweredge machine, for running my school Via LTSP. It worked for a while and then (maybe after an update) everytime someone logs into a client the gnome-panel flashes several times and then disappears. The only thing i can find in logs is in the apport.log saying that gnome-panel crashed, no useful information.
<Qoole> i re-installed... forgot to test before updating... and it started straight away
<Qoole> also, when i move my mouse over 'preferences' on the LDM login screen, X crashes and restarts
<Qoole> only thing i'm doing out of the default is using DNSMasq as dhcp server... instead of the ISC one
<Kamping_Kaiser> Qoole, your gnome-panel issue i think has been reported on the list
<Qoole> could you point me in the direction of "the list" please?
<Kamping_Kaiser> lists.ubuntu.com
<Kamping_Kaiser> search for 'edubuntu-users' and 'edubuntu-devel' on that page.
<Qoole> hmmm, can't seem to find it...
<Qoole> was it posted recently do you know?
<Kamping_Kaiser> letme check the topic
<Kamping_Kaiser> Qoole, "Is Gnome the right DE for students?", posted on the 20th. thread is ~5 emails long
<Qoole> can only see three posts, and they don't really specify my particular error
<Kamping_Kaiser> i think there was more in the digests *shrug*. and no, they have the same syptom, no cure that i saw
#edubuntu 2007-12-26
<Qoole> thanks anyway, I'll hang around... see if anyone else has any suggestions
<ari_stress> hi all
<ari_stress> happy holidays :D
<ari_stress> evening all
<yvan_> is someone here familiar with LTSP?
<yvan_> I've got a question about that app.
<yvan_> anyone????
#edubuntu 2007-12-28
<sigma> how easy is it to setup a edubuntu network?
<sigma> one on computers where all the hardware works with edubuntu
#edubuntu 2007-12-29
<nuGzthk> hi i need help, i formatted my HD and when i try to install ubuntu i get errors that it block sb_bread please pm me or say thanks
<bddebian> Heya
<markvandenborre> I'm looking to optimise this edubuntu setup
<markvandenborre> there's like 50 clients with decent graphics and 32 Mb of ram
<markvandenborre> I'm typing from one right now, and it works quite smoothly
<markvandenborre> I just want to optimise video playback a bit
<markvandenborre> so I have a few questions: how do I get a shell on the terminal itself?
<markvandenborre> where do I find logs and/or the autodetected client X config?
<markvandenborre> (this is on a 7.10 setup)
<markvandenborre> quite amazing the progress since the Debian Sarge I set up 3 years ago
<pygi> greetings PriceChild
<joebaker> I tried installing Edubuntu PowerPC Server edition the other day and it failed to boot after the install.
<johnny> the powerpc team prolly small.. who knows how much luck you'll have with it
#edubuntu 2007-12-30
<joebaker> One question I need a quick answer to about the Edubuntu server install.
<joebaker> Is it required to have 2 nics?
<joebaker> It seemed that this might have been why the PowerPC install could have encountered an exception.
<joebaker> I'm about to re-install an i386 system now from scratch and I only have a single nic.
<joebaker> I'll re-join the conversation from my laptop in a moment.
<joebaker> I've been trying to exercise the Encrypted Filesystem on LVM option of Edubuntu 7.10 Gutsy.  It's not working on i386 nor on PowerPC.
<joebaker> That was the single automated option I chose.
<johnny> you used the alternative cd?
<johnny> that worked for me on stock ubuntu
<joebaker> I'm re-running the installer, choosing a manual partition scheme.  Switching encryption from aes to twofish.  Changing the keysize down to 128 bits for more speed.
<joebaker> Yes Johnny, I'm using the alternative i386 edubuntu Server cd.
<johnny> hmm... server cd.. encryption would be annoying there
<joebaker> Wait... that's the Server install.
<joebaker> Necessary.
<johnny> every time you restart the computer, you'd have to type the password..
<joebaker> The machine is out in the open and is used for multi-users remotely with NX.
<joebaker> The machine should stay up for years on end.
<johnny> so the encryption won't do very much then..
<johnny> if it's always on
<joebaker> If somebody seals the machine....
<joebaker> That's where I want the encryption in place.
<joebaker> But it worked for you?
<joebaker> Was it the server CD or just an alternate install cd for Desktop?
<johnny> alternative for desktop
<johnny> i put it on my laptop
<johnny> and it just worked
<joebaker> I left /boot unencrypted.  This is a terrific feature.  I'm very much involved in politics in the US.  I believe the encryption will be essential in coming years.
<joebaker> Well, I suppose I should issue a bug report for Server on launchpad.
<joebaker> Is it a bug with the installer?  What's the installer's name?
<joebaker> I'll bet the installer's name is ubiquity
<pygi> debian-installer
<pygi> if it's the alternate cd
<johnny> ubuquity is the graphical installer
<johnny> err ubiquity
<joebaker> Thanks
<seamus123> HI All
<seamus123> Anyone here got any experience using the Thin Client Manager under VMware?
<joebaker> Sorry, no I haven't.  I'm hoping to though.
<seamus123> ok
<seamus123> My primary goal is to try out the thin client manager
<seamus123> and I'm wanting to do it under VMware first due to lack of hardware currently ;)
<seamus123> However, I can't seem to get VMware to boot across the network
<seamus123> and wonder if there is a PXE image that can be used to get VMware up and booting
<stgraber> using bridged networking and booting it using the PXE option (press ESC at boot time) usually works
<seamus123> hmm
<seamus123> but I'm creating the new VM at the moent
<seamus123> and it asks for the installation media - either a .iso or a CD/DVD in the drive
<seamus123> I can't get past that mode in the wizard to actually tell the VM to "just boot"
<seamus123> (Using VMFusion btw)
<stgraber> hmm, never tried fusion, I'm usually using workstation or server on Linux
<stgraber> go through the wizard then disable everything but the network card
<seamus123> trying
<seamus123> hold down "Esc" when booting you reckon?
<stgraber> at least with workstation that's the way to have the boot menu prompt in the VM
<stgraber> you may also enter the BIOS and change the boot order (if Fusion emulates a BIOS as workstation and server do)
<seamus123> hmm
<seamus123> I've got it booting up now and it's looking for a network boot I think with this message:
<seamus123> "Press F12 for a network service boot"
<stgraber> ok, so pressing F12 should make it boot using PXE
<seamus123> unfortunately there are seom keybooard overrides on OS X that f12 is calling instead of the f12 in the VM
<seamus123> grhh
<seamus123> I think these can be disabled under VMfusion however
<seamus123> checking preference
<seamus123> s
<stgraber> right, F12 is exposÃ© or something like that IIRC (alt+F12 with compiz on Linux)
<seamus123> yup that's correct it is
<seamus123> turned off theOS X shortcuts and that booted it
<seamus123> here's the (not) funny part - it's seeing the DHCP network from my wider LAN @ work, instead of the DHCP on the Edbuntu VM that's also running
<seamus123> DHCP server runs by default on Edbuntu?
<seamus123_> hmm
<stgraber> hmm, in your case you should probably set two NICs on the Edubuntu VM, one being bridged (the internet), the other being host-only (the LAN on which the edubuntu's dhcp will listen to)
<stgraber> then set the NIC of your client to host-only
<stgraber> alternatively you may change your work DHCP to send the PXE settings (that's easy if that's a linux dhcpd server)
<seamus123_> hmm I set the thinclient VM NIC to host only
<seamus123_> and now it finds no DHCP server
<stgraber> did you add a host-only NIC to the Edubuntu server as well ?
<seamus123_> nope
<seamus123_> I'll attempt to do that now
<seamus123_> never done it before..,.
<stgraber> that will simulate a server connected to a WAN (you work LAN) and to an internal LAN (your thin clients)
<stgraber> the dhcpd will run on the host-only card and then your client will receive an ip and the boot parameters
<seamus123_> Would I create the 2nd NIC within Ubuntu or VMware admin (sorry for the dumb q)
<stgraber> vmware
<stgraber> you will have to shutdown the VM, add the 2nd NIC and boot it again
<seamus123_> roger - shutting down
<seamus123_> (thanks for this help btw: much appreciated!)
<seamus123_> ok I've got two networks now: 1) NAT 2) host only
<seamus123_> look good?
<stgraber> yep
<stgraber> I'm not sure the DHCP server will automatically start on the host-only NIC though, you may have to start it by hand
<stgraber> just try to boot your client, if that doesn't work, then you'll need to start the dhcp server by hand
<seamus123_> ok - on the phone but will try that in 2mins
<seamus123_> yup didn;'t see the DHCP server
<seamus123_> (from the thin client)
<seamus123_> what's the best way to start this manually do you know under Edubuntu
<stgraber> sudo ifconfig eth1 192.168.0.254
<stgraber> sudo ifconfig eth1:0 192.168.0.1
<stgraber> sudo /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server restart
<stgraber> should do it, assuming the NIC is on eth1
<seamus123_> hmm interesting - doing the restart of the srvice failed - presumably it was not running in thefirst place!
<seamus123_> perhaps DHCP does not start at boot up?
<seamus123_> anyway, will try with the thin client now
<stgraber> I guess it would have started if the NIC was correctly set
<seamus123_> wow! looks like it's booting mate!
<seamus123_> fingers crossed
<stgraber> (which would have been the case if you had both NICs set at installation time)
<stgraber> you may experience a problem when opening a session (access refused)
<stgraber> but maybe not :)
<seamus123_> yeah I did get access refused!
<seamus123_> presumably need to create a user first on the Edubuntu server?
<stgraber> sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys
<stgraber> sudo ltsp-update-image
<stgraber> those two should fix that
<seamus123_> on the host?
<stgraber> yes, on the server
<seamus123_> ok 2nd command is doing something - creating little endian filesystem...
<stgraber> yes, can take some minutes
<johnny> commands are successful if they don't return output usually
<johnny> so it did do something
<stgraber> just reboot the client after this one completed
<seamus123_> yes I know that (do use Debian linux at work quite a bit) VMware and DHCP is areas I've had v. little experience in however
<seamus123_> That is going to take awhile 25% through
<seamus123_> Macbook Pro is slogging it's guts out now with two VM's running LOL
<stgraber> my server is running 4 at the moment :)
<stgraber> and I'm watching a movie connected on a virtual edubuntu server from a real thin client
<seamus123_> damn!
<seamus123_> CPU/RAM specs?
<stgraber> AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4200+ and 2GB of RAM
<stgraber> root@vagonbrei:~# uptime 23:11:45 up 2 days,  3:38,  1 user,  load average: 0.06, 0.20, 0.21
<seamus123_> 11:12  up 5 days,  1:28, 2 users, load averages: 1.54 1.52 1.14
<seamus123_> Macbook Pro Core 2 Duo 2.2Ghz, 2GB RAM
<stgraber> well, generating a new squashfs uses a bit of CPU :)
<seamus123_> ok well that is all done
<seamus123_> will reboot the client and see what happens
<stgraber> I'm using Xen for my Linux VMs, it's known to take way less CPU but requires you to boot a patched kernel so only working on Linux AFAIK
<seamus123_> yeah we use Xen quite a bit at work
<pygi> with newest intel or amd you dont have to use a patched kernel
<stgraber> hmm, right with the VT or AMD equivalent thing, haven't tried that way though
<seamus123_> hmm that may have killed it - not booting to a login screen at all now?!
<seamus123_> on thinclient that is
<seamus123_> did netboot however
<seamus123_> ie ran vmlinuz
<stgraber> weird, try : sudo chmod 644 /opt/ltsp/images/*
<stgraber> in case something is wrong with file permissions on the squashfs image
<seamus123_> There was a bunhc of info spat out after I ran that command e.g.
<seamus123_> info: port 2000 is already defined in the conf file
<seamus123_> info: taking no action
<seamus123_> could that have killed it>?
<stgraber> no, that just means that inetd is already configured for that image and will run nbd-server correctly
<stgraber> so that's fine
<seamus123_> ok
<seamus123_> it's working with the permissikons reset
<seamus123_> trying to log in now
<seamus123_> We have lift off!!
<seamus123_> Hmm got in ok, but appears to have just fallen over (the thin client) i.e. window has completely disappeared!
<seamus123_> but I think I have the config correct at least
<seamus123_> your help was tremendously appreciated
<stgraber> np
<seamus123_> general q: I would have thought with thin clients that a user database would have to be created first on the host server and that thin clients would authenticate against that user list first
<seamus123_> rather than any user creating a "new" user on the fly
<stgraber> it uses the same user database as the server
<stgraber> so basically what you have in /etc/passwd
<seamus123_> ahh!
<stgraber> or in LDAP if you have set a ldap auth
<seamus123_> 'so I would have logged in as "myself" given on the thin client I used my same user/pass as on the host server
<seamus123_> what a mistake!
<stgraber> yes, because you certainly logged in twice with the same user/pass which leads to a lot of problem :)
<seamus123_> ok I'll create a new separate user and test with that
<stgraber> like having nautilus/gconf to complain because they are run twice
<seamus123_> may have more success
<seamus123_> yup
<seamus123_> probably explains why it died when I tried to message myself via the thin client manager ;)
<stgraber> note that we'll probably move from tcm to italc with hardy (april 2008)
<stgraber> I'm working on the italc integration in Edubuntu and LTSP
<seamus123_> italc ?
<stgraber> italc.sf.net
<seamus123_> Looks greast!
<stgraber> yes, except a crash when entering demo mode, it's ready for integration
<stgraber> and as I have like 4 months to fix a single crash, it should be in in time :)
<seamus123_> I was a little surprised there were no edubuntu forums like ubuntu - this was the only means of support I could find - I've used the ubuntu forums a lot - do you think edubuntu would ever get their own forums up and running?
<seamus123> sorry about
<seamus123> !
<seamus123> who says OS X never crashes ;)
<stgraber> well, I don't know for the others but I'm not much of a forum guy, I'm mainly following the mailinglists and IRC. So if you have questions I think it's better to come here and ask (or for LTSP related #ltsp) or subscribe to one of the mailing-list (http://lists.ubuntu.com)
<seamus123> think it was the VMware getting well and truly confused
<seamus123> thanks stgraber
<seamus123> btw: is LTSP packages available in the standard ubuntu repos ?
<stgraber> sure
<stgraber> every Ubuntu derivates share the same package repository
<stgraber> so you could install kde on a xubuntu install for instance
<seamus123> yeah but who would choose KDE ;) ;)
<pygi> :P
<pygi> stop the discrimination, com'on!
<stgraber> well, it's the second most used desktop so ... :)
 * stgraber was a kde user back to kde 1 and 2
<seamus123> ahve to say KDE4 looks pretty faslh
<seamus123> flash
<stgraber> yep, I'll have to give it a try. Though it's better to stay with the standard desktop when you are doing Ubuntu development (and QA testing in my case) :)
<stgraber> installing : ltsp-server-standalone on a standard ubuntu should make your computer a ltsp server (you'll maybe have to tweak the network settings a bit)
<seamus123> http://asksanta.co.nz/pic1.png
<seamus123> A screenshot showing my success thanks to you!
<seamus123> top left = OS X and IRC chat
<seamus123> bottom left - edubuntu server
<seamus123> bottom right thin client
<seamus123> both running in VMfusion
<stgraber> sweet
<seamus123> as the server amdin can you remote install x11vnc on a client so you can see what they're doing>?
<seamus123> I see from within TCM it says this must be installed before you can see their screen
<stgraber> you would have to do that inside the client chroot
<stgraber> I think we have the instructions on the wiki, let me have a look
<seamus123> ok
<stgraber> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/InstallX11VncOnLtspClients
<stgraber> you'll need to add an extra step at the end
<stgraber> sudo ltsp-update-image
<stgraber> those instructions being for feisty were we didn't have the squashfs image but an exported NFS chroot
<stgraber> *where
<stgraber> but I have to warn you that the VNC integration in TCM was really buggy (eating tons of RAM IIRC), that's one of the reason why we are moving to italc
<stgraber> and the described installation of x11vnc lacks of security (no password required for remote control)
<seamus123> ok - I'm only testing this on local VM at the moment, so no security issues
<seamus123> read those instructions - this means it would be in place for all thinclients right?
<stgraber> yes
<stgraber> the thin clients mount some kind of network share (a squashfs image over nbd) at boot time and then use it as a hdd
<stgraber> what you do here is modifying this hdd, then all clients will have it after they reboot
<seamus123> hmm after I've chroot'ed I can't run apt-get anymore
<seamus123> it gets permissions errors accessing the repo files
<seamus123> I can run apt-get no worries when not chroot'ed
<seamus123> $ sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386/
<seamus123> root@edubuntu:/# apt-get update
<seamus123> Ign file: gutsy Release.gpg
<seamus123> Ign file: gutsy/main Translation-en_NZ
<seamus123> Ign file: gutsy/restricted Translation-en_NZ
<seamus123> Ign file: gutsy Release
<seamus123> Ign file: gutsy/main Packages
<seamus123> Ign file: gutsy/restricted Packages
<seamus123> Err file: gutsy/main Packages
<seamus123>   File not found
<seamus123> Err file: gutsy/restricted Packages
<seamus123> etc
<stgraber> hmm, ok, so try this (outside of the chroot) : sudo cp /etc/apt/sources.list /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/apt/
<stgraber> then do : apt-get update and the apt-get install inside of the chroot
<stgraber> I think the sources.list of the chroot is broken
<pygi> :P
<seamus123> sorted ;)
<seamus123> btw: rebooted the edubuntu server and the DHCP server fails to start again so looks like a boot config issue
<stgraber> yes, you would have to do the ifconfig trick again
<stgraber> or set /etc/network/interfaces so eth1 has 192.168.0.254 as IP address set at boot time
<stgraber> appending :
<joebaker> I think the problem I'm having with the encrypted filesystem bootup might have to do with the Intel graphics chip support.
<stgraber> iface eth1
<stgraber> address 192.168.0.254
<stgraber> netmask 255.255.255.0
<stgraber> should do it
<joebaker> The F1 console is written in bigger fonts sometimes.  Maybe I have  a problem with the framebuffer?
<stgraber> joebaker: only tty1 (F1) ? not the others ?
<joebaker> The others aren't ready yet... this is early in the boot phase.
<stgraber> try with : vga=normal and without splash as boot parameter
<stgraber> if that's FB related, your problem will disappear
<stgraber> (you can edit the boot line in grub by pressing "e" till you are editing the right line, then once edited you can boot pressing "b")
<seamus123> stgraber - does this look valid for /etc/network/interfaces:
<seamus123> # The loopback network interface
<seamus123> auto lo
<seamus123> iface lo inet loopback
<seamus123> # The primary network interface
<seamus123> auto eth0
<seamus123> #iface eth0 inet dhcp
<seamus123> iface eth1
<seamus123> Address         192.168.0.254
<seamus123> Netmask         255.255.255.0
<stgraber> address and netmask without the uppercases and add an "auto eth1" just the line before "iface eth1"
<seamus123> just "before/after" iface eth1 ?
<stgraber> before
<seamus123> # The primary network interface
<seamus123> auto eth0
<seamus123> #iface eth0 inet dhcp
<seamus123> auto eth1
<seamus123> iface eth1
<seamus123> address         192.168.254.0
<seamus123> netmask         255.255.255.0
<stgraber> 192.168.0.254, the rest looks good
<seamus123> $ /etc/init.d/networking restart
<seamus123> open: Permission denied
<seamus123>  * Reconfiguring network interfaces...                                          /etc/network/interfaces:13: too few parameters for iface line
<seamus123> ifdown: couldn't read interfaces file "/etc/network/interfaces"
<seamus123> line 13: iface eth0:1
<seamus123> I changed it from eth1 to eth0:1 to see if that fixed it, but no joy
<stgraber> argh, right ... : iface eth1 inet static
<seamus123> generic q stgraber (since you know an awful lot about this stuff!) do you know if icalc or other ltsp apps have been customised for web cafe usage for linux?
<seamus123> (italc sorry!)
<stgraber> I know some people use italc to manage web cafÃ© even if its initial target was classrooms
<stgraber> depends on what features you need
<seamus123> I guess some form of timing module and ideally billing module would be necessary
<seamus123> (just thinking aloud that's all)
<stgraber> IIRC they have that kind of thing somewhere on italc todolist (or at least a plugin system)
<stgraber> you can still do that yourself (at least the timing part) with a bit of scripting
<stgraber> like running a script at session open time which will wait the time the user paid for and the close the session (gnome-session-save --kill --silent)
<seamus123> yup
<seamus123> was simply curious if anyone had packaged it altogether in a GUI format that's all - seemingly not at this stage (that you're aware of anyway)
<seamus123> btw: is iTalc from the Windows world orringally?
<seamus123> originally
<seamus123> looking at the screenshots it's all XP'ish
<stgraber> sort of, it has been done using QT so easily multi-platform
<stgraber> and they are planning a MacOS X release too
<seamus123> ahhh!
<stgraber> http://italc.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?title=Roadmap
<seamus123> btw: got VNCX11 working
<seamus123> thanks for the tip on that
<seamus123> forgot to run thelast command to update the image
<seamus123> but worked after doing that
<seamus123> LOL and yes it's buggy - hung the TCM !
<stgraber> I told you :)
<seamus123> indeed you did ;)
<seamus123> hmm blanking a users screen is of limited beneift if they can simply enter their own password again and get full access!
<seamus123> is that the intended usage?
<stgraber> hmm, well that's how Pete understood my "blank screen" idea :)
<stgraber> I of course meant to lock the display, not just prompt for the user password :)
<stgraber> that'll be fixed with italc
<seamus123> yeah llocking the screen makes far more sense IMHO
<seamus123> esp. if it's an admin doing it to a user/student
<seamus123> they're clearly blanking it for a reason!
<seamus123> well, I've got to say I'm v. impressed with my first forays into thin client usage and Edubuntu
<seamus123> Are there any dedicated thin client hardware in v. small form factor available?
<stgraber> yes, they are quite a lot, I haven't installed any large network yet (only playing with old computers as client) so I haven't really searched for that, but I know HP do some
<stgraber> and there are some specialized manufacturer for that
<seamus123> expensive do you know?
<stgraber> http://www.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/Clients
<stgraber> hmm, IIRC the cheapest are like $120, average should be at a bit more than $200 I think
<seamus123> excluding display I presume?
<stgraber> indeed
<stgraber> Last I checked here they were more like $300-$400 but that's because they just receive no request, then have no stock ... Price are different if you directly order from the manufacturer and ask for a significant quantity (I was personaly looking for a single test unit)
<seamus123> yeah ebay may be a good option to pick up 2nd hand ones in small quantities I guess
#edubuntu 2008-12-22
<sbalneav> Morning all
<Ahmuck> morning sbalneav
<Ahmuck> i just got in :)
 * Ahmuck nudges nubae
<laserjock> morning all
<laserjock> nubae: you're right, empathy's IRC support does technically work
<Ahmuck> what is empathy?
<LaserJock> it's the new Gnome communications app
<LaserJock> "newer" I guess. It will eventually replace pidgin and probably ekiga
<Ahmuck> ri-li is a neat little game that should be in edubuntu
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: looks like it could fairly easy to get in from a technical standpoint
<Ahmuck> yes.  sudo aptitude install ri-li
<Ahmuck> i guess i was pointing out that it was an good app for education.  specifically in rights education
<morgs> LaserJock: hi, I haven't seen any upload for bug 263173
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 263173 in sugar-hulahop "Sugar Browse fails on startup" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/263173
<Ahmuck> grubby games has a childrens game, called the amazing brain train, very educational.  it's a pay game for 20.00 but perhaps edubuntu could lobby them to offer it to schools for bulk discount?
<Ahmuck> http://grubbygames.com/games.php
<Ahmuck> is there a free list and a pay list of software?
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: no, we don't have much for lists right now. we need volunteers :-)
 * Ahmuck is volunteering
#edubuntu 2008-12-23
<Ahmuck> LaserJock: where should i begin the list?  on my personal website?
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: talk to nubae
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: nubae is working on some package lists for edubuntu.org
<sbalneav> Morning all
<Ahmuck> good morning
<Ahmuck> nubae: r u around?
<PrivateVoid> hello all...
<PrivateVoid> just found the wiki page for the Education Program that was edited on August 6th of 2008... is anything still happening with this?
<PrivateVoid> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/education
#edubuntu 2008-12-24
<PrivateVoid> hello - anyone home?
<LaserJock> PrivateVoid: what's up?
<PrivateVoid> just curious what the status of the project on this page is -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/education
<LaserJock> PrivateVoid: have a look at http://www.ubuntu.com/education
<PrivateVoid> is that the same as the link I posted?
<LaserJock> not the same, no
<LaserJock> but I think that's perhaps what is being talked about on that page
<PrivateVoid> yeah... to a certain extent...
<PrivateVoid> I was hoping to see some specific blueprints for deploying Linux (Ubuntu) in a K-12 environment
<PrivateVoid> how to replace Windows / OS X
<PrivateVoid> how to replace AD / OD / NDS
<LaserJock> that's sort of a hard thing to give blueprints for
<LaserJock> as there are a lot of ways to do those things
<PrivateVoid> hard or not... we need to develop a few rough blueprints IMHO
<LaserJock> sure
<PrivateVoid> there may be a few hundred ways to do it, but we need to lay that out so K-12 institutions can attempt to do it
<LaserJock> right
<PrivateVoid> i did not know if people were working on that or not...
<LaserJock> off hand the best thing i can think of is asking the edubuntu-users mailing list
<LaserJock> not currently that I know of unfortunately
<PrivateVoid> I intend to travel down that road in the next 6-12 months and if people are not working on it I can take some extra time to document more completely my experiences and results
<LaserJock> I'm sure that people would both love to see that and would probably love to help you along
<PrivateVoid> awesome
<PrivateVoid> I am a Sys Admin for a K-12 and budget constraints finally have the bean counters paying attention to my discussion of FOSS
<LaserJock> PrivateVoid: I would ask on edubuntu-users first though
<LaserJock> I know some people have been doing a fair amount of documentation
<LaserJock> but I don't think I've seen a  complete "blueprint" as you're talking about
<PrivateVoid> I will ask... thanks...
<PrivateVoid> you are talking about the mailing list - right?
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> that's a lot better than asking just me :-)
<PrivateVoid> Yet, you have been very helpful and I am most appreciative
<LaserJock> no problem
<LaserJock> I very much appreciate you being interested
<LaserJock> we are sorely lacking "manpower"
<LaserJock> so any  help is very much welcome
<Ahmuck> this is the same issue i've encountered
<Ahmuck> to gain wide adoptions "it just has to work" (tm)
<PrivateVoid> Ahmuck, it doesn't just have to work...
<PrivateVoid> but it can not be vodoo science with no 'best practice'
<PrivateVoid> there is a large chasm between the two
<sbalneav> Morning all
<Ahmuck> *streches* ... good morning
 * PrivateVoid waves
<HedgeMage> hi :)
 * Ahmuck bugs nubae
<PrivateVoid> hello Ahmuck and HedgeMage
<PrivateVoid> HedgeMage, I have some potions you might be interested in :-)
<HedgeMage> greetings, PrivateVoid
<HedgeMage> lol
<PrivateVoid> you still do any roleplaying?
<HedgeMage> Not really -- this isn't a good location for getting a group together.  Most of my friends are a significant drive out of town.
<PrivateVoid> I know the feeling...
<HedgeMage> I may consider getting an ED game together after I move, but that depends on how much time I have, and what else I'd like to spend it on.
<PrivateVoid> after roleplaying was such a large part of my life (for entertainment) I no longer play...
<PrivateVoid> started in 1976 and played my final game five years ago... been thinking of doing a mud or some such
<HedgeMage> I don't know that it was ever a huge part of my life...I played a bit in college, then got more into it after I started a family -- it was a good, cheap form of entertainment that I could enjoy at home with the munchkin around.
<HedgeMage> Though, my nick actually isn't an RP reference... it's a reference to my being self-taught at many things.
<PrivateVoid> like so many of us... I am self-taught as well.
<HedgeMage> :)
<nubae> Ahmuck: I'm here now
#edubuntu 2008-12-25
<chris78v> hello
<chris78v> i need support, can anybody help me ?
<LaserJock> chris78v: what's your problem, perhaps somebody can
<chris78v> ok i can not get my screen to fit,, its off center
<chris78v> i am using my tv as my monitor and have only encountered this problem when doing so
<chris78v> i am a very new user to ubuntu
<LaserJock> well, this is not a very good channel for you
<LaserJock> chris78v: have you tried the #ubuntu channel, that's a much better support channel
#edubuntu 2008-12-26
 * Ahmuck nudges nubae
<nubae> am here
<Ahmuck> i'm confused how the fat/thin client menu's work
<Ahmuck> vs server menu
<Ahmuck> shouldn't they be the same?  or must one sync them?
<nubae> no, one needs to install a program in the fatclient chroot
<nubae> there is no menu system for the fatclient
<nubae> by installing in the chroot (sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/fati386 apt-get install program-I-want) it shows in the fatclient menu
<Ahmuck> so it's like two sepearte installations?
<Ahmuck> isn't that a maintence nightmare, exactly the thing ltsp tries to solve?
<Ahmuck> does the fatclient have a sepearte network setup?  after installing none of the fatclients had inet access, whcih i understand is turned off by default in the thin client setup, and iirc i turned it on.
<Ahmuck> if i only have fat clients, then i could do the fat client setup via i386 only and not have to worry about two different setups?
#edubuntu 2008-12-27
<nubae> Ahmuck: well, its like having 2 maintenance setups, one thin, one fat... inet should work fine out of the box... if it doesn't please check /etc/network/interfaces
<LaserJock> hi nubae
<LaserJock> nubae: how's it going?
<nubae> hey LaserJock
<nubae> not too bad... not a lot of work, since its the holidays and all
<nubae> how bout u?
<LaserJock> been doing some bug work
<LaserJock> got qcad all triaged
<nubae> insectisides :-)
<LaserJock> working on gcompris now
<nubae> gcompris has a problem with sound on ltsp... SDL based
<nubae> run it with sound on a couple systems and the network will go down
<LaserJock> gosh, gcompris too?
<nubae> yep
<nubae> everything SDL based
<LaserJock> that sucks :(
<nubae> yeah its a serious problem, especially since Canonical claims to support these progs
<nubae> but ltsp is a different beast I suppose
<nubae> I think we need to shout a bit harder to get the SDL people involved
<nubae> think about how many edu apps are SDL based... its a lot
<nubae> u have a good xmas btw?
<LaserJock> well, "support" is not very well defined
<LaserJock> yeah, it's been a pretty good christmas
<nubae> well, thats not helpful for deployments in schools...
<nubae> if we cannot state what is supported and not....
<LaserJock> that's Linux
<nubae> well its got to be clear, either its supported, or not...
<LaserJock> well, it's supported in the sense that you can by a support contract
<nubae> i can't deploy in a school and say, it MIGHT be supported
<nubae> really, u think Canonical would fix all SDL based apps if the school in question paid?
<LaserJock> and if you do that and then complain about SDL then I guess they'd look into it
<LaserJock> they'd look into it, I mean they aren't miracle workers :-)
<nubae> ok, well I can test that theory...
<nubae> I'm deploying several schools here in Austria in January
<LaserJock> but I believe that's the point of buying support
<nubae> lets see what happens
<LaserJock> you're supposed to be able to call them up and say "heh, this doesn't work, what are you gonna do about it?"
<nubae> that would mean canonical would pay the SDL programmers to fix their stuff
<nubae> for ltsp
<LaserJock> I doubt it
<nubae> I guess until now, there has been no incentive
<LaserJock> the Canonical support engineer might try to find a workaround or perhaps bug some upstreams
<nubae> yeah the workaround we got now was.... don't run sound
<LaserJock> I doubt Canonical would actually pay somebody to fix it, but you never know
<LaserJock> I honestly know close to 0 about Canonical's support
<nubae> well if the school in question pays a support contract I would hope so
<nubae> otherwise I will advise them not to pay any support contract
<LaserJock> I've been in Ubuntu for over 3 years and I haven't seen them do anything
<nubae> hmmmm
<LaserJock> but I think they stay pretty busy so they must do *something*
<nubae> hows it work with tuxlabs... they have 200 deployments
<nubae> surely they have complaints
<LaserJock> honestly though right now I don't know exactly where Canonical is in all this
<LaserJock> I think they're kinda trying to figure what to do with Education
<nubae> well when I spoke to Riched last, he seemed pretty committed
<LaserJock> realistically Canonical can't just fix everything, you know
<nubae> right, understand that, but the SDL thing is not a little thing
<nubae> it affects almost 50% of the programs in edubuntu
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> but if they are looking at having to fix a kernel bug that affect 5 million people or a LTSP bug ...
<LaserJock> it's a matter of prioritization
<nubae> right, I get that, but they do have a dedictated person for education, right?
<LaserJock> not that I know of
<nubae> Riched
<LaserJock> he's not a support person
<LaserJock> his management
<LaserJock> he doesn't do support or development
<nubae> k... well they better start outsource to u or me or someone
<LaserJock> we'll see
<LaserJock> I've been trying to make the case
<LaserJock> especially as there are some rather large Edubuntu deployments out there
<nubae> the education market is massive, just here I can tell u the numbers are massive
<LaserJock> I mean, I don't want to scare people off of Ubuntu?Edubuntu
<LaserJock> I think it's great for Linux
<LaserJock> but at this point there is almost no Canonical interest that I can find
<nubae> it is, the netbook market alone has oppened great opportunities
<LaserJock> so it's up to us volunteers to keep it going
<nubae> well, in terms of netbooks... they are very interested in getting support for that officially
<LaserJock> if Canonical see's Edubuntu growing and making a difference I think they'd be willing to help
<LaserJock> but I don't think they want to do it alone, IMO at least
<nubae> right
<LaserJock> yes, netbooks are huge
<nubae> not sure if they see that as education thought
<LaserJock> nope
<LaserJock> well, they do
<LaserJock> but not in terms of Edubuntu or educational apps
<LaserJock> well, that's not exactly true
<LaserJock> I mean, they work quite a bit with OEMs, etc.
<nubae> yeah right now with 1
<nubae> dell
<LaserJock> but I don't think they're very concerned with Education in the sense of educational apps/tools/content
<nubae> they want all the others to send samples of their netbooks and pay them for testing
<LaserJock> they just want to deliver Ubuntu on netbooks
<LaserJock> I haven't seen a lot of emphasis on actual educational content
<nubae> true, me either, though they are interested in sugar
<nubae> because of its publicity
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> but we need to grow a developer community
<LaserJock> we need work done or we die, essentially
<nubae> difficult when there are about 5 active people or less
<LaserJock> yep
<nubae> what do u suggest?
<LaserJock> it's not an easy problem
<LaserJock> somehow we need to convince Edubuntu users that it's worth their time to contribute
<nubae> so bombard them with emails?
<LaserJock> we need to then have the infrastructure and leadership to to have a place for them to land
<nubae> I think we need to revive edubuntu-devel
<LaserJock> yep
<nubae> at least u and I could start sending out emails
<nubae> writing whatever
<nubae> morning alkisg
<nubae> I'll commit myself to write an email every couple days... and i u do the same, think we could spark something on the mailing list... there are a lot of dormant users
<alkisg> good morning nubae and everyone!
<LaserJock> hi alkisg
<nubae> what u doing up at 6!
<alkisg> Heh... I quit smoking, and now I can't sleep!! But it's 7:00, so good enough today, yesterday I woke up at 3:00!!!
<nubae> heh, hear ya, insomnia is bad... its 6 here....
<alkisg> You just woke up or you didn't get to bed yet! ???
<nubae> the latter... came back from a party....
<nubae> but insomnia nevertheless
<alkisg> Programming after a hangover produces a lot of bugs... beware!!! :P
<nubae> no hangover yet....
<nubae> LaserJock: so whatcha think... send a couple emails every couple days to revive the list?
<alkisg> nubae: what was wrong with your domain some days ago? was it hacked?
<LaserJock> nubae: what are you planning on saying?
<nubae> no... finally got it to my own registrar, and it had default dns servers, even though I had changed it before
<nubae> LaserJock: well, a description of projects we are doing and how to get involved for a start
<nubae> and stating that edubuntu needs volunteers
<nubae> laying out the future
<nubae> right now its dead because no one knows what is going on, but we know at least a couple of things that are happening
<LaserJock> nubae: well, we should get a list together
<LaserJock> I was hoping the Strategy Doc would help
<LaserJock> so I need to finish that
<nubae> it would if it was complete
<nubae> yeah..
<alkisg> You could even put something like this on the wiki, cause it's really not clear what edubuntu is right now and where it's going...
<nubae> right!
<nubae> write whatever u can, and I'll help...
<nubae> we just cannot rely on Canonical to get inolved anymore
<nubae> anyway, we have at least 4 people interested in progressing this, Ahmuck, LaserJock, alkisg, nubae
<LaserJock> so I think if we got a list of things to do
<LaserJock> had a meeting
<alkisg> ...Don't let me get the conversation out of track, but I was wondering if edubuntu should primarily target kubuntu and not ubuntu, with most of the apps being part of kde-edu... I've been using plain ubuntu/ltsp so far, and I only installed the edubuntu add-on cd once, but it installed so may kde* stuff that I think it would be better if I had kubuntu..
<LaserJock> divided up the task and got to work
<LaserJock> alkisg: I think it's mostly desktop-neutral
<LaserJock> I think one of the problems is that KDE had KDE Edu
<LaserJock> but beyond that there's not a ton
<LaserJock> I have been working on our edubuntu-desktop-kde meta packages
<alkisg> If someone installs edubuntu on kde, doesn't it install 50-100Mb _fewer_ than if it's installed on gnome?
<LaserJock> nope
<LaserJock> because we have lots of Gnome libs
<nubae> must be about the same one both
<alkisg> I see...
<LaserJock> you're kind of stuck either direction
<nubae> anyway, why does that matter?
<LaserJock> but we do have to pick one
<nubae> well, edubuntu should be its own distro... IMHO
<LaserJock> we *just* got rid of that :-)
<nubae> yeah I know, I think it was a mistake
<LaserJock> we basically can't support doing our own full distro
<nubae> but nevermind
<alkisg> Nubae, what does being a distro offer that a meta-package cannot?
<LaserJock> well, it wasn't a matter of mistake or not, it was basically the only thing we could do
<nubae> well, if u are deploying to a school or uni, and u say, here is the edubuntu distro...
<nubae> they will take u far more seriously than if u say, well, we have this addon cd....
<LaserJock> right
<nubae> the edubuntu name is known
<nubae> respected in many casese
<LaserJock> Canonical wants to say "here's Ubuntu, and you can also add on educational apps using the Education CD"
<nubae> which means nothing to a school or uni
<alkisg> Ah, yeah, I know about that!!! I had to write a newer version of a manual "installing edubuntu in greek schools", and I had to rename it to "installing ubuntu/ltsp and adding the edubuntu cd later..." :P It lost some "magic".
<LaserJock> and given that we simply can't maintain a distro ..
<nubae> why can kubuntu maintain itself and edubuntu not?
<LaserJock> no people
<nubae> whats the missing piece of the puzzle?
<LaserJock> Edubuntu is too much of a niche distro and doesn't appeal to geeks
<nubae> I dont know what to say to that
<LaserJock> we've never been able to attract the high-school/university student that makes Ubuntu/Kubuntu, etc. thrive
<LaserJock> school admins don't want to contribute in enough numbers
<nubae> well, edubuntu died the minute the name started to be disputed
<nubae> it was thriving before
<nubae> then suddenly list went dead
<LaserJock> even at it's height, with the same number of Canonical people working on Edubuntu as Kubuntu (1)
<LaserJock> we never had nearly the development community
<LaserJock> not enough to sustain a full distro with 2 CDs
<nubae> there are 2 sides to this... one is the desktop/artwork
<nubae> the other the programs
<nubae> we should, even with 4 people be able to maintain that
<LaserJock> well
<nubae> granted, LaserJock is heavily weighed down with the packaging part....
<LaserJock> doing a full distro is a heck of a lot of work
<LaserJock> working with what we've got, I think 4 people can make a big dent
<crimsun> keep in mind that a few people are also working with upstreams, so edubuntu will reap the benefits through debian
<nubae> k, so what can we do?
<nubae> maybe set up a meet
<crimsun> personally, there's very little advocacy for edubuntu, and i'm changing that as i give ubuntu dev talks to college acm meetings
<LaserJock> I talked to RichEd and it looks like the 7th of Jan. is a go for a meeting
<nubae> crimsun: but do believe there is hope for a edubntu distro?
<LaserJock> nubae: as a distinct distro?
<nubae> distinct or not... a brand
<crimsun> sure
<nubae> so lets go for that
<crimsun> a significant number of people (by my admittedly narrow sampling pool of metro DC) have kids who use edubuntu
<nubae> same here
<LaserJock> do they actually use Edubuntu?
<nubae> my users do
<LaserJock> seems like to me very few people actually use the CD anyway
<LaserJock> lots and lots of LTSP
<LaserJock> but seems like people mostly don't care much about the Educational apps
<nubae> forget about that, its a package
<nubae> edubuntu+ltsp
<crimsun> well, i can't speak for ltsp, but i can speak for interested parents and children
<nubae> right!
<LaserJock> well, I'd love to do more with that
<LaserJock> but honestly, Canonical is after big school contracts
<nubae> which they cannot do without both
<LaserJock> I'm not sure they have much of any interest in home use
<LaserJock> they want large institutional server use
<LaserJock> and enterprise desktops
<nubae> thats fine.. its still edubuntu
<crimsun> right, that's certainly a valid approach
<LaserJock> it's Ubuntu
<nubae> they want an educational desktop
<LaserJock> it's not Edubuntu
<nubae> why not?
<LaserJock> Edubuntu is a community/project focused on educational apps
<LaserJock> i.e. it's not a server nor a desktop
<nubae> I think thats the wrong focus... it should be thin clients with edu
<alkisg> I think the problem with edubuntu is that it can't target all primary/secondary/high schools from all different countries. E.g. in greek secondary schools we only use 2-3 apps from edubuntu (so most people don't install it), in high schools 4-5 _different_ apps...
<LaserJock> ok
<nubae> alkisg: why, whats wrong with the other apps?
<LaserJock> are there programs we can add that would help?
<alkisg> They are just not part of what we have to teach the kids
<nubae> so we need to work on that
<nubae> what can we do to make it more appropriate
<alkisg> In _my_ opinion, what I'd like would be this: edubuntu = (1) a collection of meta-packages, like edubuntu-el-high-schools or edubuntu-br-secondary-schools, (2) an easy way for a teacher = maintainer to build this meta-package, and (3) a way to download all this and build an add-on cd where bandwidth is a problem
<alkisg> It's really different from what edubuntu is now, but it would be something I'd find really useful.
<nubae> yup metapackages is a big focus now, right?
<LaserJock> yeah
<nubae> and its damn easy
<LaserJock> but in a practical sense, I'm not sure we can do country-specific metapackages terribly easily
<nubae> forget country specific, start with levels...
<nubae> pri, sec, uni, or whatever
<alkisg> LaserJock: why? Why can't I just select 5-10 packages and build a meta-package out of them?
<nubae> well, we need a base
<LaserJock> well, let me think a sec
<nubae> crimsun: dont go away, give your input too
<crimsun> (sorry, not away, but just doing audio debugging)
<LaserJock> so basically we can maintain the packages
<LaserJock> and provide a metapackage/CD tool
<alkisg> LaserJock: no, not the packages, just the _way_ for teachers of specific countries to build & host their meta-packages
<LaserJock> so you select from a predefined list of packages and you get out a .iso?
<alkisg> Yeap. Select some packages, and name this "mycountry-edubuntu-package". Then also have an option to download this to a cd.
<LaserJock> right, but we need to maintain the software
<crimsun> sounds like a ppa
<alkisg> One teacher would be needed for each country as a maintainer
<LaserJock> crimsun: except I think they need .isos
<crimsun> right, that's a tough one
<crimsun> can't necessarily rely on canonical's livefs infrastructure, but there are community-maintained tools
<LaserJock> we could try to make a customized debian-cd script
<alkisg> But we shouldn't expect him to know about PPAs and packages, he should just be able to follow a wizard-like package builder.
<LaserJock> crimsun: we don't need livefs
<crimsun> oh, so this would just be for customised add-on images, then?
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> so how about this as an idea to throw out
<nubae> with a base of what most users would need...
<LaserJock> we create a CD that has all the edu apps + a GUI tool that lets you pick from the packages on the CD and makes you a new .iso
<alkisg> ISO's could be built with a script that uses the normal packages, they (=ISOs) don't have to be hosted in repositories...
<nubae> yep sounds good
<LaserJock> although ...
<LaserJock> that seems sort of redundant
<alkisg> But my main point here is that e.g. a greek secondary school teacher should be able to select "edubuntu-el-sec" which the greek maintainer prepared for him
<LaserJock> all you'd need is a list of packages to install
<alkisg> Even online, without having a cd
<nubae> right, sounds good
<LaserJock> alkisg: *if* we had greek maintainers that would be awesome
<LaserJock> but my concern is we don't even have maintainers for the software to start with
<alkisg> LaserJock: if all it takes is some package selection, I'm sure you'll find lots of maintainers
<alkisg> But it shouldn't be difficult
<alkisg> So in my opinion edubuntu should be the infrastructure that makes this easy for the teachers=maintainers. As simple as selecting some packages for each education level/country.
<LaserJock> well, yeah, that would make sense
<nubae> if there are no maintainers default to english
<alkisg> yeap ^^
<alkisg> Or to plain "edubuntu", with all the packages selected
<LaserJock> well, we are going to have defaults for Jaunty
<nubae> ok, explain...
<LaserJock> ubuntu-edu-preschool, ubuntu-edu-primary, ubuntu-edu-secondary, and ubuntu-edu-tertiary
<nubae> yep sounds good...
<LaserJock> I guess that should be a good start
<LaserJock> then we can ask if people would like to volunteer as country/region maintainers
<alkisg> LaserJock: to make it easier, you could premake all the packages and fill them with default values
<alkisg> Then, if a maintainer shows up, he'll just need to modify the default list
<LaserJock> well ...
<LaserJock> I'm not particularly convinced, to tell you the truth
<LaserJock> we don't have *that* many apps
<LaserJock> how much difference is there going to be?
<alkisg> Teachers in specific countries may need apps not currently in edubuntu
<LaserJock> ok, but we can't really do anything about that
<LaserJock> and we can't put packages in that depend on non-existent packages
<alkisg> Sure, the maintainer will just put them in the package
<alkisg> The packages exist, but e.g. in ubuntu, not in edubuntu
<nubae> I understand what alkisg is saying
<LaserJock> ok, but why wouldn't Edubuntu have it then?
<nubae> because it has a lot of missing packages
<nubae> but yes, it should have those included
<alkisg> E.g. would you put clamav in edubuntu?
<LaserJock> no reason we can't
<alkisg> The greek ministry insists that clamav be installed in all greek schools...
<alkisg> But others may not want it, or there could be a space problem (> 700MB)
<LaserJock> but right now we are using 300 MB
<LaserJock> we have 400MB left
<nubae> its not the point...
<alkisg> Also, we install wine and some greek educational apps
<LaserJock> there are lots of things we can do, but we need people to get involved with it actually happening
<LaserJock> nubae: I realize that
<nubae> right,so lets set a date
<LaserJock> my concern is having a bunch of people creating a ton of packages
<LaserJock> when it's just me sitting here trying to make this thing work
<nubae> LaserJock: right now u are the dictator... we listen to u for what happens
<LaserJock> no, no, not like that :-)
<nubae> yes, its necessary :-)
<LaserJock> but I can see lots of people working on these meta packages while the actual programs fall apart
<LaserJock> we have over 200 open bugs
<LaserJock> and we should really add more programs
<nubae> right which is the reason we have u
<LaserJock> heh
<alkisg> LaserJock: what programs? Aren't the programs maintained upstream?
<LaserJock> somewhat
<LaserJock> but we get lots of bugs
<LaserJock> sometimes there are Ubuntu-specific issues
<LaserJock> sometimes there are bugs we haven't integrated fixes for
<LaserJock> sometimes we just need to forward the bug reports on upstream
<alkisg> OK, but it's not like they are _edu_buntu specific...
<LaserJock> yes
<alkisg> edubuntu should be the infrastructure, not the packages
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> that's not right
<LaserJock> ideally maybe
<nubae> ideally for sure
<LaserJock> but there is *nobody* but us maintaining these packages in Ubuntu
<LaserJock> if we don't deal with the bugs they'll just end up sitting there or closed
<nubae> are there really 200 bugs in edubuntu?
<LaserJock> certainly upstreams and Debian are great helps, we couldn't do it at all if it wasn't for them
<LaserJock> nubae: open ones, yes
<nubae> k, Ill try tackle some of that
<LaserJock> 12 in gcompris presently
<alkisg> So if LaserJock decides that he hates PCs, there won't be a newer Kolourpaint or Dia or tuxpaint package? :P
<nubae> unsurpinsingly... but just spoke to u about that
<LaserJock> Kolourpaint and dia there will be
<alkisg> OK, gcompris: why does edubuntu have to fix it's bugs?
<nubae> alkisg: right LaserJock is our dictator
<LaserJock> alkisg: because nobody else will
<LaserJock> I mean, you gotta have devs ...
<LaserJock> that's how a distro works
<alkisg> But gcompris is also ubuntu supported, isn't it?
<nubae> right at least we need to shout and send upststream
<LaserJock> alkisg: well, yes, that's why I'm an Ubuntu Core Developer
<nubae> funny I asked same question
<LaserJock> you can't assume somebody else will take care of it
<nubae> is gcompris really supported or not?
<LaserJock> well, yes
<LaserJock> but what "supported" means might not be what you think it does
<alkisg> LaserJock: thanks, just trying to understand how these things work...
<LaserJock> alkisg: no problemo
<LaserJock> technically anything in the Main repository is supported by the Ubuntu Core Developers
<LaserJock> as a team
<nubae> LaserJock: I think its important to note how many people are interested in keeping edubuntu alive
<LaserJock> but on a practical level, much of the Ubuntu Core Developer team is paid by Canonical to do specific things *or* they are volunteers who work on whatever they like
<alkisg> I guess what I'm saying is that you should maintain gcompris as part of you being "Ubuntu Core Developer", but not as part of you being our belevolent edubuntu monarch... :) Edubuntu doesn't have enough man power to be focusing on bugs... But then again, it's just my newbie opinion
<nubae> how man people does Canonical employ acutallly?
<LaserJock> so if  1) canonical (or some other company) doesn't pay somebody to maintain gcompris and 2) no volunteer Core Dev doesn't have an interest there's really very little maintenance of gcompris
<LaserJock> nubae: to work on Ubuntu?
<LaserJock> or as a whole
<nubae> yeah
<nubae> whole
<LaserJock> 200+ I think
<LaserJock> mostly working on Launchpad
<nubae> course, their product
<LaserJock> Canonical pays something like 50 people or so on Ubuntu
<nubae> crazy... thats nothing
<LaserJock> hmm, could be less, not sure
<nubae> sounds right
<LaserJock> well, at one point Red Hat employeed more people to work on the kernel than Canonical had on all of Ubuntu
<nubae> ubuntu doesnt pay anyone to work on kernel
<nubae> canonical
<LaserJock> well, we have kernel maintainers
<nubae> really?
<LaserJock> who work some on the kernel as well
<LaserJock> oh sure
<LaserJock> Ben Collins was the first guy, he was formerly a Debian Project Leader
<LaserJock> but there's maybe 4-5 Canonical people that work on the kernel in Ubuntu
<LaserJock> when I first started there were really only a handful of Canonical peoplel
<LaserJock> 10-15 working on Ubuntu
<nubae> so I heard canonical doesnt make money yet, shuttleworth is just spending at the moment
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> probably won't for a couple years yet
<LaserJock> not terribly surprising
<LaserJock> though Canonical has more time than if Mark wasn't behind it
<LaserJock> sending out postage-paid CDs all over the world isn't cheap
<LaserJock> neither is paying for developer summits and sprint :-)
<nubae> k so when is next meeting?
<LaserJock> Jan. 7th
<nubae> k cool
<nubae> time?
<LaserJock> alkisg: ^^ can you make it?
<LaserJock> nubae: dunno, what sounds good?
<nubae> u tell me
<LaserJock> let's see, I'm on the weird time
<LaserJock> 16 or 17:00 UTC is good for me I think
<LaserJock> bah, that's the Foundations Team meeting time :/
<LaserJock> 19:00 UTC ok?
<nubae> yep,ok for me
<LaserJock> that'll be pretty late for RichEd I think
<LaserJock> but if we want to do it in #ubuntu-meeting that's the best we can do i think
<nubae> well thats 9 european time
<nubae> im same time zone as riched
<LaserJock> I think he's +2
<nubae> 9 at night
<nubae> right
<nubae> me too
<LaserJock> nubae: do you know how to get the list of Edubuntu bugs?
<nubae> not exactly no, tell me
<LaserJock> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-bugs/+packagebugs
<nubae> u realise half that stuff is due to SDL?
<LaserJock> not half, but some
<nubae> ok, at least 30%
<LaserJock> so there are 241 open, 208 not assigned to anybody, and 5 listed as "In Progress"
<nubae> can name them if u want
<alkisg> LaserJock: sorry, was away. Sure, I can make it.
<LaserJock> I've only seen a handful of SDL bugs
<LaserJock> alkisg: great
<nubae> ok, anything with tux in front of it
<nubae> then gcompris, atomix, gpaint
<LaserJock> there are 17 tux* bugs
<LaserJock> I think only 1-3 are SDL
<nubae> thin client manager should be taken out
<LaserJock> well, we still have to support it
<nubae> that one is easy
<nubae> no we dont
<LaserJock> yep
<nubae> why?
<LaserJock> Dapper is supported for another year or so
<nubae> no one supprts  that crap
<nubae> fuck it
<LaserJock> heh
<nubae> there is a choice
<LaserJock> no, not for people on that release
<LaserJock> or at least not a supported choice
<nubae> forget it.. if u are still running dapper upgrade...
<LaserJock> well, we can't exactly force that until it's EOL
<nubae> why would that not be the appropriate answer?
<LaserJock> that's what "support" is supposed to mean ;-)
<nubae> well we are a community, right
<nubae> not paid
<LaserJock> still
<LaserJock> it may not be high priority, but it's our "crap" so let's keep an eye on it
<nubae> I disagree.. I do not think we should be supporting dapper
<LaserJock> that's what we promise people
<stgraber> nubae: that's something we'd have had to discuss before dapper's release
<nubae> look, its quite easy to say, upgrade to something less than 2 years old
<nubae> no one will question thtat
<stgraber> now it's a LTS with 3 years support on the desktop
<nubae> right so hardy is out update
<LaserJock> nubae: while Dapper is a supported release we can't just ditch it
<stgraber> not that simple, I can't ask all my customers to upgrade to Hardy :)
<nubae> for edubuntu we can
<nubae> we dithched the name
<LaserJock> Edubuntu is "supported" until it's EOL'ed
<nubae> stgraber: why not?
<LaserJock> nubae: we promised people who installed Dapper that they could keep it for 3 years on the desktop
<nubae> ok, I'd like to know who still runs dapper
<stgraber> nubae: because they chose it for the 3 years desktop support, they don't plan on spending the money for the migration before next year
<nubae> can we get a figure on that?
<nubae> I have not heard of anyone running dapper coming on irc.. but of course there could be others
<LaserJock> we don't really know
<LaserJock> we don't get stats on any release
<stgraber> mainly because we simply can't get stats ...
<LaserJock> but when we promise 3 years support we shouldn't just ditch it
<LaserJock> of course at this point it's pretty much best-effort, but it doesn't hurt to keep it on the radar
<nubae> can anyone verify that there are stilll people running dapper?
<LaserJock> I know of people
<LaserJock> I don't run it myself though
<nubae> ok, u know people that are running dapper, really?
<LaserJock> yep
<stgraber> I know some too
<nubae> ok, and why have the not upgraded?
<LaserJock> "works for me"
<nubae> that is a silly excuse
<LaserJock> it's not very silly really
<stgraber> nubae: because a dapper => hardy upgrade is really not that easy ?
<LaserJock> Dapper is less than 3 years old
<LaserJock> I know people that run Windows 98
<nubae> stgraber: right, agree, but must be done
<stgraber> nubae: yeah except that from a budget point of view, that's for next year's
<LaserJock> but that's the user's choice, not ours
<nubae> 98 is not supported for many years
<nubae> good example
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> but we said Dapper was supported for 3 years
<alkisg> 98 is a different example, it works on P1 CPUs with 16 MB RAM, those PCs _cannot_ upgrade
<LaserJock> we can't just say "well, actually, now that we look at it we're going back on that"
<nubae> fine ok, so how much longer...
<LaserJock> Until June of 2009
<nubae> really?
<nubae> jeez
<stgraber> yeah, that's EOL for Dapper on desktop
<LaserJock> yes, 3 years from 6.06
<nubae> omg
<stgraber> 2001 for servers
<stgraber> *2011
<nubae> heh
<nubae> severs are meanignless to ubuntu/edubuntu
<LaserJock> oh?
<stgraber> not really actually
<nubae> at least for edubuntu
<stgraber> LTSP was part of Edubuntu back then
<nubae> ltsp or edubuntu are NOT server
<LaserJock> Schools don't have servers?
<stgraber> depends on Canonical's definition of server then :)
<nubae> come one
<nubae> on
<LaserJock> well, some parts of Edubuntu Dapper I do believe count as Server
<nubae> neither edubuntu or ubntu ltsp are server
<stgraber> did we have edubuntu-content-server back then ?
<LaserJock> nope
<nubae> they both need desktops
<LaserJock> but LTSP had server bits
<nubae> so????
<LaserJock> dhcp for instance
<stgraber> LTSP doesn't need the desktop
<nubae> ltsp needs the desktop
<stgraber> we have several schools running all the LTSP bits on a box connnecting to an Hardy application server
<nubae> stgraber: reallly? how?
<stgraber> so that's Dapper's LTSP without the desktop bits
<LaserJock> so for all practical purposes Edubuntu is desktop for support
<LaserJock> if I remember right
<stgraber> nubae: easy, just set LDM_SERVER to a different value
<nubae> stgraber: bah, thats semantics
<nubae> normally, it needs a desktop
<nubae> u know that
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> in any case
<LaserJock> we've sort of wandered a bit
<nubae> I'm glad so many people got involved
<LaserJock> alkisg: do you think you could work up a little proposal on your country metapackage maintainers proposal for the meeting?
<alkisg> LaserJock: I think so, should I upload it to a wiki or somewhere?
<alkisg> (so that I don't type the whole thing at the meeting)
<LaserJock> alkisg: depends on how big it gets :-)
<alkisg> OK, we'll see!
<LaserJock> alkisg: I don't think it needs a ton of explanation, you might just write up a little something to paste
<nubae> alkisg: important is that u be there
<alkisg> Sure, I'm interested in this also! :)
<LaserJock> nubae: do you have anything you'd like to bring to the meeting?
<nubae> like?
<LaserJock> will you have the app lists on edubuntu.org by then?
<nubae> yes
<LaserJock> well, I'd like for people to think about tasks they would like to do for Jaunty
<nubae> Ill do my part
<LaserJock> we need to quickly define what we're going to do for this release
<LaserJock> experience says we've already had some critical time slip away
<LaserJock> we don't have the advantage of having specs already defined for most everything
<nubae> you mean anything
<LaserJock> I think I meant everything, but could be wrong :-)
<nubae> welll ill be there
<LaserJock> I'll hopefully have this Strategy Doc done
<LaserJock> but I'm still struggling a bit with the larger vision of what Edubuntu, Ubuntu in Education, etc. are
<LaserJock> the easiest thing, by far, is to just call everything Edubuntu, but I don't know that we can really do that
<LaserJock> well, time for me to go to bed
<LaserJock> I'll be thinking of things we need to cover in the next meeting, and hopefully you guys will as well :-)
<alkisg> Bye LaserJock, see you in the next meeting.
<Ahmuck> nubae: i'm in today if u r
<Ahmuck> what is a large edubuntu deployment?
<Ahmuck> how about ubuntu-ltsp ?
<Ahmuck> may i suggest a different market.  the private school sector for edubuntu
<Ahmuck> i have a whole list of apps.  some of them are pay, however companies are willing to work with distros to make pay apps included in edu because it's those apps that go home to the kids
<Ahmuck> the apps that i have are "educational" in some sense.  learning bridge building, system management, etc. but from a child's perspective
<nubae> sounds good, with the inclusion of wine that should be a possibility
<nubae> or are u talking about linux apps?
<nubae> also, please send me a list of these apps
<nubae> in most cases ubuntu-ltsp is a part of the deployment
<nubae> its an easy way for people to deploy the edu apps and manage them in the best possible way at the least cost
<Ahmuck> yes, linux and windows apps both.
<Ahmuck> a lot of the linux apps i run accross are 19.99
<Ahmuck> artrage is 25.00 now, but they have a educational discount
<Ahmuck> like 5.00/copy
<Ahmuck> our school systems might have 350-400 for k-12 total
<Ahmuck> so an art room that uses artrage would only need about 10
<Ahmuck> which makes it reasonable to assume.  i recently stumbled accross gogh which looks like  reaplacement but it doesn't appear to be maintained
<nubae> what does artrage do?
<Ahmuck> it's a natural painting program
<Ahmuck> http://www.artrage.com/
<Ahmuck> http://www2.ambientdesign.com/gallery/showimage.php?s=37f97e57b9b7e8d18c61079b650fc6aa&i=3083&catid=newimages
<Ahmuck> for people that are used to working with paint, real paint, it's a natural transition.  one of our local librarians is an artist, and sitting her in front of this requried no learning and she was painting right away
<Ahmuck> it also mimics paint texture.
<Ahmuck> http://www2.ambientdesign.com/gallery/files/6/8/0/8/blouberg_original.jpg
<nubae> ok, so there is no linux replacement?
<nubae> I think a good rule of thumb would be if, there is no linux replacement, include it in edubuntu
<nubae> if/when wine is in ubuntu main
<Ahmuck> it has a free version.  i know they would be thrilled, and linux users would be thrilled.  simply because it would push them into getting a linux version or push someone to create an equal
<nubae> when I say edubuntu I dont mean the distro itself, but maybe the website at least...
<Ahmuck> yes, wine is a problem
<nubae> do u know if it runs under wine?
<Ahmuck> yes, that i am aware of.  however i don't see why edubuntu couldn't start moving in it's own direction on "instruction" as a distro
<Ahmuck> using ubuntu or ubuntu ltsp as a base and then a full wiki or something on specifics.  i can see this eventually moving into it's own distro
<Ahmuck> it runs under wine, i use it
<nubae> you're right, but right now it is an official ubuntu derivation... if we do things that are politically incorrect (ubuntu-wise) it may stop being that
<Ahmuck> there is also plastic animation paper, which may also have fallen into non-maintence, but is a good free linux animation program, like the old guys used to do it, one cell at a time
<nubae> there are only 4 official ubuntu derivations right now, kubuntu, edubuntu, ubuntu christian edition and ubuntu itself
<Ahmuck> chicken and the egg.  and fear of breaking the egg and tossing the chicken out
<Ahmuck> is mythbuntu any less successful?
<nubae> right, but its important to be supported
<Ahmuck> is there support now?
<nubae> mythbuntu is very specific... its not really a full distro
<nubae> yes, edubuntu is officially supported
<Ahmuck> so, again, back to SDL
<Ahmuck> ubuntu will be fixing edubuntu ltsp SDL problem?
<nubae> :-) right they should fix that
<nubae> its a matter of how hard people shout
<nubae> also, the fact that ltsp is no longer a part of edubuntu is a problem
<nubae> so, in a sense, the SDL apps work under edubuntu.. just not under LTSP
<Ahmuck-Jr> you'll find i'm a fan of breaking away if it means a return to progress.  ie, mozilla/firefox
<nubae> well, only if its really needed
<Ahmuck-Jr> though i think sometimes breakaways fall into the same trap as others, eventually they become so bogged down with infrastructure they become less effective at making the correct changes
<nubae> I dont believe it is in this case, I think we can fit in our needs within the existing framework
<nubae> its a matter of people getting involved
<Ahmuck-Jr> real invoation usually happens with a handful of people willing to push ahead
<nubae> we have a meeting on Jan 7th... 9 utc...
<Ahmuck-Jr> will that happen?  i'm ready, but i'm no programmer for sure
<Ahmuck-Jr> arg, the mouse froze up
<nubae> there are many many non programmer tasks
<nubae> in fact most are non programmer tasks....
<Ahmuck-Jr> http://pastebin.be/15695
<nubae> ??
<Ahmuck-Jr> heh, like debugging ur script :)
<Ahmuck-Jr> that's my /etc/network/interfaces
<nubae> ah k... and is your server 192.168.0.254?
<Ahmuck-Jr> fat clients have no inet access
<Ahmuck-Jr> yes
<nubae> wait.... thats the servers /etc/network/interfaces
<nubae> I mean the clients
<Ahmuck-Jr> http://pastebin.be/15696
<nubae> hmmm, u cant possibly have net acces on u're thin clients... that states that your server is 192.168.0.1
<Ahmuck-Jr> i did
<nubae> paste me /opt/ltsp/fati386/etc/network/interfaces
<nubae> u must make /etc/network/interfaces relate to /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
<nubae> same server...
<Ahmuck-Jr> ah, found the problem
<nubae> :-)
<Ahmuck-Jr> http://pastebin.be/15697
<nubae> yeah no eth0
<Ahmuck-Jr> so your script does not copy the interfaces into /etc/network ?
<nubae> set it to auto, re-image client and u'll be fine
<nubae> it does normally
<nubae> not sure what happened with yours
<Ahmuck-Jr> would you like me to test your script in a vm?
<nubae> very difficult to make something work on everyone's system
<Ahmuck-Jr> re-image the client ... let me dig for my notes
<nubae> sure, go for it
<Ahmuck-Jr> nubae: it's a stock system
<Ahmuck-Jr> it's stock until i'm comfortable this works
<nubae> ltsp-update-image
<nubae> well ltsp-update-image -a fati386 -b /opt/ltsp
<nubae> I use it in large deployments, but I realise I leave out a lot of stuff
<Ahmuck-Jr> yes, i've understood that
<nubae> I kinda know what I'm doing so dont always know what to explain
<Ahmuck-Jr> which is why i've been going through it letter by letter
<Ahmuck-Jr> k, i need some help understanding what's going on.  thin and fat clients have two sepeart file system?
<nubae> yes totally different, sections... normal ltsp lives under /opt/ltsp/i386
<nubae> fatclient lives in /opt/ltsp/fati386
<nubae> so whatever is done within one environment in no way affects the other
<Ahmuck-Jr> i was under the impression that the fat client only did what was necessary to offload to the client and then everything else was the same
<Ahmuck-Jr> so that any change to the "master" (ie server) would affect both clients
<Ahmuck-Jr> ie, software install, desktop preferences, etc.
<Ahmuck-Jr> there is no way to achieve fat clients outside of this?
<nubae> no, think of it as different systems, the only thing that is the same, is the way the clients load one image or another
<nubae> not really no... local apps allows one application to run locally
<nubae> but its not the same, there are still many problems with that route
<nubae> think of it this way... u feed the computers image A or image B, the 2 being totally different
<Ahmuck-Jr> so to maintain the same look, feel across the systems one must do to both what one does to one
<nubae> right
<Ahmuck-Jr> how does this work with kubuntu, openbox, etc
<nubae> but thats not too hard
<Ahmuck-Jr> a sepearte fat client for all?
<nubae> right, its an advantage
<nubae> u could have several fatclients, all running different window managers
<Ahmuck-Jr> so if student a wants kubuntu and student b want ubuntu, then they have sepearte fat client setups?
<nubae> yeah
<nubae> u could in theory even run different distros
<Ahmuck-Jr> does ubuntu have a proxy server setup for updates, etc one could establish locally?
<Ahmuck-Jr> a local mirror would work i suppose
<nubae> just chroot /opt/ltsp/fati386
<nubae> and then apt-get update
<Ahmuck-Jr> at first i was put off by the whole sepearte fat client not intergrated thingy, but it appears fat clients may offer more flexablity
<nubae> right they do...
<nubae> u can create many customised environments
<nubae> its not an easy concept to understand, but nevertheless its there...
<Ahmuck> it would be nice to create a local app thingy for the fat client setup.  any chance this can be copied rather than downloaded and installed?
<Ahmuck> i understand it now, just not b4
<nubae> well in Jaunty, the script will be part of ubuntu
<Ahmuck> i'm still trying to think of a way to simplfiy things
<nubae> what we need is a gui manager for it
<nubae> but I've not got the patience to code python
<Ahmuck> ah, yes.  i've been thinking the same thing
<Ahmuck> but i know no python
<nubae> :-)
<nubae> If someone laid out what needed to be done, I'd give it a try
<nubae> but without motivation.. I'm happy to use it as it is
<nubae> after all, I'm not being paid for it
<Ahmuck> heh
<Ahmuck> i know a python writer that i might be able to interest
<Ahmuck> provided it does not become a full time job for him
<nubae> well thats the way with open source
<nubae> takes time, but eventually it gets done
<Ahmuck-Jr> reboot
<Ahmuck-Jr> nubae: no go
<nubae> no inet?
<nubae> paste me your interfaces
#edubuntu 2009-12-21
<sbalneav> Morning all
<mccord42> good morning.  I have a question about setting up edubuntu for my preschool aged kids
<sbalneav> !ask
<ubottu> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<mccord42> I installed from the dvd but I see no way to set up the young kids interface that I have seen on some screenshots on the edubuntu web page
<mccord42> I am setting up a stand alone system
<mccord42> I created a second user that isn't an admin but it has the default desktop
<sbalneav> On the screenshots page? A lot of those shots are from gCompris
<sbalneav> Applications -> Education -> Education Suite Gcompris
<mccord42> I'm trying to set up a very simple interface for a 3-4 year old.  any ideas?
<sbalneav> Well, I don't think there's any desktop manager systems specifically designed for your people...
<sbalneav> so, if I were you, I'd simply set up icons on the desktop, and make 'em big...
<sbalneav> So it's easy for little fingers to point-n-click
<sbalneav> sorry, s/your/young/
<sbalneav> Also, I'd put everything on one panel (the bars at the top and bottom), and make the panels bigger
<sbalneav> that will make the icons on them larger as well.
<mccord42> so what do the ubuntu-edu-preschool, primary, secondary, etc packages do?
<sbalneav> They're meta-packages.
<sbalneav> When you install them, they, in turn, install other packages
<sbalneav> sbalneav@3jane:~$ aptitude show ubuntu-edu-preschool
<sbalneav> Depends: gcompris, gcompris-data, kanagram, khangman, ktuberling, tuxpaint, tuxpaint-data, tuxpaint-stamps-default
<sbalneav> so, installing ubuntu-edu-preschool will install gcompris, khangman, ktuberling, tuxpaint, etc.
<sbalneav> if you do an "aptitude show <pkgname>", and look at the "Depends" line, you'll see what they pull in.
<mccord42> ah, but if all the meta packages were installed during the initial install and you remove them, the other packages they installed do not get uninstalled?
<sbalneav> No
<sbalneav> I don't beleive so.
<mccord42> so what is the recommended way to install a system for preschool kids?  so that all the other packages don't get installed?
<sbalneav> I think the dvd ships everything by default.
<mccord42> should I just do a standard ubuntu install and then install edubuntu from the repositories?
<sbalneav> There's extra stuff on there, but like I say, if you just create icons on the desktop for the stuff your little one needs, they'll never see it in the menus.
<sbalneav> You can do it that way as well.
<sbalneav> All edubuntu is is just Ubuntu with different default package selections.
<mccord42> yeah, I see that now. I thought it had a couple different interface setups. but I guess I'll be doing that part myself. :)
<sbalneav> But, having two teenagers of my own, I know kids grow up ;) Why not leave all the stuff on there, and as they grow, the systems grows with them?
<sbalneav> mccord42: We've always just used standard gnome.
<sbalneav> I think there are Sugar packages available, but I'm not sure.
<mccord42> I hate to sound like i'm ripping on a free product, but I think I see why childsplay isn't part of edubuntu.  I wonder who's idea it was to make the users type in their name to use a program that looks to be designed for 2-4 year olds?
<sbalneav> Type in what name? Their userid?
<sbalneav> You can certainly set up gdm to autologin
<sbalneav> and childsplay IS available as an installable package.
<mccord42> I know gdm will auto login. :) I meant childsplay won't open without entering a name.
<sbalneav> I'd expect, if you can't just somehow pass a preconfig to childsplay to tell it the name, that it wouldn't be that hard to patch it to pull the name from the GECOS field of the /etc/passwd file.
<sbalneav> simple getpwent($USER) should solve that.
<sbalneav> I'll bring it up at the next council meeting.  Perhaps we could officially support childsplay as a desktop environment.
<highvoltage> hi sbalneav
<sbalneav> Morning highvoltage
<sbalneav> highvoltage: When's our next meeeeeeeting?
<stgraber> sbalneav: waiting for the CC to announce the new EC, should happen quite soon
<stgraber> then we'll have a meeting for sure
<sbalneav> Did anyone vote for me? :)
<stgraber> we all received 6 votes in favor, none against
<sbalneav> Lol, well, at least 6 people like us :)
<sbalneav> And nobody actively hates us :)
<sbalneav> We're in the black!
<highvoltage> sbalneav: heh :)
<mccord42> hmm, I may try the netbook remix gnome interface on my kids edubuntu computer.  It's very icon heavy.  Will probably be good for prereaders
<highvoltage> sbalneav: I finally subscribed to the ltsp-developer mailing list, all these years I thought there was only the -discuss list
<stgraber> hehe
<Ahmuck-Sr> yes, i've wondered about the remix interface
<Ahmuck-Sr> interfaces are key to winning new users
<Ahmuck-Sr> anybody using google chrome?
<pleia2> congrats on your new council :)
<jbicha> congratulations new council members!
<stgraber> thanks
<Ahmuck-Sr> new council ?
 * Ahmuck-Sr musta missed a meeting
<alkisg> Yup, congrats to all :)
<Ahmuck-Sr> nubae apply ?
<highvoltage> yay, we should schedule a meeting
<sbalneav> \o/
<stgraber> yep, is Wednesday too soon ? should we wait till after the holidays ?
<sbalneav> highvoltage: here, was out at lunch
<highvoltage> I don't think wednesday is too soon
<highvoltage> better do it earlier than later I think
<sbalneav> Agreed.
<stgraber> ok, so let's do it on Wednesday
<stgraber> highvoltage: can you do the anouncement ?
<stgraber> (I've got a meeting just now)
<highvoltage> stgraber: 18:00 UTC?
<stgraber> highvoltage: 19UTC would be better for me, 18UTC is just the end of my lunch break
<highvoltage> stgraber: ok
<stgraber> alkisg, sbalneav, nixternal: is it ok for you too ?
<alkisg> It's ok for me...
<sbalneav> 18:00 utc is a-ok for me.
<sbalneav> Thunderbirds are go!
<stgraber> actually, we were more talking 19:00UTC though I can probably arrange to be around at 18:00UTC if 19:00 is an issue to anyone
<nixternal> stgraber: works for me
<nixternal> anything between 16:00 UTC and 07:00 UTC is perfect
<stgraber> highvoltage: I booked you in the office calendar.
<highvoltage> stgraber: great
<sbalneav> highvoltage: You in Canada?
<highvoltage> sbalneav: not yet
<stgraber> sbalneav: unfortunately not yet, immigration is a pain ...
<sbalneav> Bummer.
<sbalneav> Who's the holdup? Canada?
<highvoltage> sbalneav: well, my police clearance certificate took a whole month
<highvoltage> sbalneav: I thought it would take just a day
<highvoltage> sbalneav: that was the biggest hold-up, I have all the necessary documentation now so I'll be posting it to the embassy tomorrow morning
<sbalneav> Serves you right for knocking over that bank, and the international diamond smuggling ring you used to run. :)
<highvoltage> sbalneav: ps: the people at work don't know what Canada is, they just know Quebec :)
<highvoltage> sbalneav: ssh
<stgraber> highvoltage: not true for eveyone :) but indeed a lot of us only know Quebec and didn't have to go through the federal stuff
<highvoltage> stgraber: yeah I know :)
<sbalneav> Well, Quebec is a distinct society, after all <ducks>
<highvoltage> stgraber: ah ok
<highvoltage> I called some people "Canadians" and they said "we're not canadians! we're QuÃ©bÃ©cois!"
<highvoltage> they meant it tongue-in-cheek, of course, but it's still funny :)
<sbalneav> Just make sure to prominently wear a Canadian Flag on St. Jean Baptiste day, and you'll be fine :)
<stgraber> I guess half of the office considers themselves Quebecois and the other half Canadian (for the Canadian employes obviously ;))
<highvoltage> what day is that?
<stgraber> sbalneav: hehe :)
<stgraber> highvoltage: 24th of June IIRC
<highvoltage> well, nothing wrong with a little bit of national pride :)
<sbalneav> hahhahahaha
<sbalneav> stgraber: ah, he has so much to learn, eh?
<sbalneav> highvoltage: There's an old joke in Canada
<sbalneav> "Why is your money different colours?"
<highvoltage> sbalneav: just one!?
<sbalneav> "Because our beer actually has alcohol in it!" :)
<sbalneav> So, c'mon over, and have a beer :)
<highvoltage> heh. canada has higher alcahol levels? how much?
<sbalneav> We just need one more member of the edubuntu council to move to canada, then we can proceed with the master plan of renaming edubuntu to Canabuntu :)
<sbalneav> Ooops, did I say that out loud?
<sbalneav> These aren't the droids you're looking for.
<sbalneav> Move along.
<Ahmuck-Sr> wouldn't it be Canbuntu?
<sbalneav> Nah, needs one more syllable
<sbalneav> highvoltage: Lots of beers start at 5.
<sbalneav> It's not hard to find beers with 6+
<stgraber> highvoltage: the beer I usually try here is between 6 and 9 %
<stgraber> it can go up to 11-12 and there is some weird stuff with even more :)
<highvoltage> wow I've never had beer with 9% alcahol level before!
<highvoltage> I think the highest we get here is 6.5
<highvoltage> (and if you even have just half a beer like that you're not allowed to drive otherwise you go to jail)
<stgraber> highvoltage: it's 0.08% here, not 0.05% as you have in South Africa (and I had in Switzerland)
<sbalneav> Well, same here.
<sbalneav> I think the legal limit works out to one full 5% beer.
 * alkisg is drinking one with 5% now :)
<sbalneav> So one full 8% beer's gonna mean at least a couple hours wait, or a cab home.
<stgraber> cab is cheap in Sherbrooke ;)
<sbalneav> The wife and I drive into work, so if I stay late for a beer or two "with the crew" after work on a Friday, I just hop a bus home.
<highvoltage> cabs was very expensive here, but since the new laws here they became more popular and the prices came down a bit
<highvoltage> sbalneav: nice :)
<highvoltage> we don't really have busses that run at night here, I guess that will improve somewhat with the soccer world cup next yaer
<stgraber> I usually can easily get back home for 10 or so CAD, so it's not so bad (especially as we are a few living in the same area)
<stgraber> btw, I sent an email to cjwatson about getting LTSP in the live environment with a few questions, I hope to have an answer quite soon.
<stgraber> I'll also add most of the stuff we've been discussing with Jonathan recently as part of the agenda for Wednesday so we can quickly go through that and split the work
#edubuntu 2009-12-22
<sbalneav> Evening all
<Ahmuck-Sr> .
<aidave> kabikaboo 1.7 now out!  https://launchpad.net/kabikaboo
<sbalneav> I think we might need this:
<sbalneav> http://git.gnome.org/browse/nanny/tree/
<sbalneav> I'll see about packaging it.
<alkisg> sbalneav: at some point you were thinking about packaging an easy to setup ldap template, for schools... care to pick it up? I'm willing to help as much as I can... :)
<alkisg> I'm trying to setup LDAP for the first time. I can succesfully do `sudo ldapaddgroup test` but I cannot get `sudo ldapadduser test test` to work, it says "ldap_add: no such object (32)". Help?!
<sbalneav> Which package are you using?
<alkisg> I did: sudo apt-get -y install slapd ldap-utils ldapscripts
<sbalneav> Ahhhh, ldapscripts :)
<alkisg> Ah got it! The ubuntu guide was using "People" while ldapscripts is using "Users"...
<sbalneav> yeah
<sbalneav> the whole problem with ldap is everything ONLY works if you've got your database laid out the exact way the scripts want.
<sbalneav> and there's NO standard for your ou's
<sbalneav> so some use "users"
<alkisg> I wonder why http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/openldap-server.html doesn't mention this problem, though :(
<sbalneav> some "Users"
<sbalneav> some "People"
<sbalneav> some just use uid= with no ou at all
<alkisg> Uhm... I think I'll just use whatever the ldapscripts use, to minimize configuration file editing :D
<sbalneav> alkisg: silly boy! You're just supposed to KNOW this!!!
<sbalneav> I've been using ldap for 10+ years.
<sbalneav> next to RS232, it's the most non-standard standard I've ever seen.
<alkisg> Heh... I was trying to avoid using it for too long now :D
<alkisg> ...but maybe I need to see it to better decide what's better...
<sbalneav> You talk to any good enterprise sysadm, you'll find they all have their own highly customized shell scripts for dealing with their specific LDAP instance.
<sbalneav> Well, the problem with LDAP is, it's well supported.
<sbalneav> Everything can talk to ldap, problem is, you have to CUSTOMIZE everything to get it to talk to the way YOU layed out your ldap.
<alkisg> Bah... we should make a package for easy ldap installation for schools!
<alkisg> I think I saw some packages in synaptic for caching credentials, do they work OK when the server's down?
<sbalneav> Well, it's not hard.
<sbalneav> skolelinux does it.
<sbalneav> you just pick a database layout
<sbalneav> create a package that creates that layouyt
<alkisg> Really?! Ah, I need to look at it for better compatibility then... they've probably thought about samba, too...
<sbalneav> and patch ldaptools + any other ldap things to support that layout "out of the box:
<sbalneav> it's not HARD
<sbalneav> it's just... tedious
<sbalneav> there's a lot of ldap tools.
<sbalneav> or things that can talk to ldap.
<alkisg> It's hard to get started with ldap... it'd be much easier if there was some easy-ldap package. ogra had started a spec about this I think 3 years ago, but it was never implemented...
<sbalneav> Then you get told "Well, you shouldn't design an ldap database layout without talking to the server team"
<sbalneav> and you talk to the server team, and 5 guys have 8 different ways they want to do the layout.
<alkisg> Heh
<sbalneav> And... here we are.
<sbalneav> I was going to implement it.
<sbalneav> I'm STILL willing to implement it.
<alkisg> Well, there are many schools out there *without sysadmins or server teams* looking for an easy way to install ldap + nfs
<alkisg> I'm willling to help however I can
<sbalneav> it's EASY to implemnt.  Consensus is hard.
<Ahmuck-Sr> alkisg>	Well, there are many schools out there *without sysadmins or server teams* looking for an easy way to install ldap + nfs
<sbalneav> Lets talk about it at tomorrow's meeting.
<Ahmuck-Sr> this is a correct statement
<alkisg> sbalneav: nice :)
 * Ahmuck-Sr has been on this soapbox for a while
<alkisg> Ahmuck-Sr: did you get to install it?
<sbalneav> LaserJock told me about bikeshedding.  You guys know what that is?
<Ahmuck-Sr> isn't LDAP standard?
<sbalneav> Ahmuck-Sr: Yes and no
<sbalneav> LDAP itself is standard.
<sbalneav> just like SQL is standard.
<sbalneav> how you design your DATABASE for access, isn't
<alkisg> Heh... http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bikeshedding
<sbalneav> it's up to you
<sbalneav> right, and ldap becomes the ultimate bikeshed.
<sbalneav> EVERYbody has an opinion as to why a databse should use ou=People instead of ou=Users
<alkisg> sbalneav: what tools are you using to manage users? ldapscripts?
<sbalneav> Why you should use o=Greek Schools Division instead of dc=greek,dc=edu,dc=gk
<sbalneav> alkisg: I have all my own custom scripts I've written, modified, and dragged with me for the last 10 years.
<alkisg> Heh, at least that tells me that ldap is stable :D
<sbalneav> Oh, it's a fine system
<sbalneav> it works well.
<alkisg> Is dc=school,dc=local acceptable to be used by all greek schools? :D
<alkisg> If so, I'm good to go...
<sbalneav> it's just the barrier to entry is SO FRIGGING HIGH
<stgraber> sbalneav: are you using kerberos for password storage/policy or not yet ?
<sbalneav> No, I don't use kerberos yet.
<sbalneav> so I'm using pamldap for my auth
<alkisg> Can ldap work without nfs?
<sbalneav> Sure
<alkisg> I.e. some package to create the local home dirs etc?
<sbalneav> Sure, that's no problem.
<sbalneav> *ALL* you need to solve this problem is to simply VOTE on a layout.  And then say, "screw everybody else, this is the layout we support"
<stgraber> sbalneav: I deployed it on my LAN (80 or so VMs ;)) and it's freaking cool to be able to ssh to a server, then to another, then to another and never have to re-auth. Then when the ticket expires (once a day), I have to login again and that's it.
<sbalneav> You want something other tthan this, you're on your own.
<sbalneav> which is EXACTLY what skolellinux does
<stgraber> sbalneav: also I have my IMAP server, web server and proxy using kerberos, so no need to login there too :)
<sbalneav> yeah, I just need to sit down with it for a day and actually play with it.
<alkisg> stgraber: do put something in the wiki about how to do all this... :)
<sbalneav> That's why, curretnly , skolellinux is the ONLY one that actually SUPPORTS ldap
 * alkisg should better copy skolelinux's layout, then...
<sbalneav> I've actually looked at skolelinux's ldap packages
<sbalneav> it's just a presees.
<sbalneav> it's just a preseed
<sbalneav> My thought was: just steal their stuff :)
<sbalneav> do what they do
<sbalneav> then edubuntu can auth against skolelinux auth servers, or vice versa
<alkisg> Right. That's what I'd like to have in edubuntu, prepackaged solutions...
<stgraber> alkisg: I'm not yet finished with looking at kerberos, I have the basics working but I need to connect it better with my LDAP
<alkisg> It'd be nice to have such solutions in edubuntu, working out of the box...
#edubuntu 2009-12-23
<sbalneav> Morning all
<alkisg> Good morning sbalneav
<sbalneav> How's the weather in Greece?
<sbalneav> We're expecting between 5-10 cm of snow over the next 24 hours :)
<alkisg> Ooooh... I'm jealous :)
<alkisg> Here's it's just rain... can't go skiing :(
<stgraber> sbalneav: bah bah, that's nothing ;)
<stgraber> sbalneav: though, interesting, according to my gnome weather applet, it's colder in Winnipeg than in Sherbrooke today
<sbalneav> What's it like in La Belle Provence?
<sbalneav> It's actually not too bad here.
<sbalneav> -9's not anything to get too worried about.
<stgraber> it was -15C yesterday but it's only -6C at the moment here and we had 5-6cm yesterday + the lot we had the week before
<sbalneav> Ah, -6's pretty good.
<stgraber> yep, feels like summer :)
<sbalneav> I don't generally tend to get feeling it's too "cold" until it drops below about -20
<sbalneav> THEN it starts getting nippy.
<stgraber> yeah, on the 31st last year it was something like -25 or -30 here, that's really really cold :)
<sbalneav> Meeting on in 5?
<sbalneav> Just gonna run out and grab a sammich
<sbalneav> No meeting?
<stgraber> sbalneav: nope, that's in 30min
<stgraber> sbalneav: 19UTC
<sbalneav> yeah, mail was in =-dev
<stgraber> meeting in 10min (#ubuntu-meeting)
<sbalneav> Phht, I been there for the last hour you slackers :)
<stgraber> "not my fault" (tm) :)
<sbalneav> I preferr the Cleaseau-esq "That's not my dog"
<stgraber> hehe
<sbalneav> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXn2QVipK2o
 * highvoltage gets some coffee before it's too late
<sbalneav> darned kids
<stgraber> fun youtube video :)
<sbalneav> It's a running joke at Legal Aid Systems Department.  If something isn't our problem, we say "That's not my dog"
<highvoltage> stgraber: lol
<pmfranco> Hello everybody
<sbalneav> Hello
<mhall119|work> hey guys, Qimo just lost it's last USA mirror host, do you think Canonical would be willing to provide mirror space?  and if so, who should I ask about that?
<sbalneav> Not sure.
<stgraber> mhall119|work: IIRC there's a link on the mirror page of launchpad to contact the mirror admins, maybe you can get in touch with a mirror admin this way
<stgraber> mhall119|work: otherwise you can try #canonical-sysadmin but that's mostly the tech guys here, not sure they can do much in your case
<stgraber> mhall119|work: do you still have mirrors somewhere else ?
<stgraber> (Canonical will likely be in Europe, I don't think they mirror in the US at all)
<mhall119|work> stgraber: yeah, in S. America and Europe
<mhall119|work> I'm looking at kernel.org now, might be able to get on with them
<pmfranco> hi people
<pmfranco> i would like to star a kubunut community in my country Ecuador
<pmfranco> wath we should do???
<pmfranco> any idea
<alkisg> kubuntu? Why don't you ask in #kubuntu then?
<pmfranco> pardon,
<pmfranco> is edubuntu community
<alkisg> Yeah, edubuntu has a community, and it's community driven... So you want to start an edubuntu loco team? Or an ubuntu loco team?
<pmfranco> Well, the locoteam Ubuntu Ecuador exist
<pmfranco> but, we need a Edubuntu LUG for the teachers, students, and others
<pmfranco> we use edubuntu at schools, university, etc
<pmfranco> do you know any channel of edubuntu in spanish, please
 * alkisg doesn't know...
<stgraber> we used to have edubuntu-es but I don't think it's active anymore
<stgraber> maybe some spanish speaking Locos may have some edubuntu guys around (though I don't remember of one)
<pmfranco> any idea o star our edubuntu community, or contact in spanish???
<stgraber> I guess best is to see if you have Loco members active in education and do a spin-off of your Loco for education
<pmfranco> i understang, a community of edubuntu inside of our LoCo Team Ubuntu Ecuador
<pmfranco> is correct???
<stgraber> yep, that'd be the easy way to set it up
<pmfranco> thanks, i'll do it
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: I haven't figured out xplash myself yet, but I need to do so for a bunch of other stuff
<mhall119|work> highvoltage: cool, we can learn it together
<mhall119|work> USplash wasn't that hard, but it's pretty basic too
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: so as I figure it out we can compare notes yes
<highvoltage> yes usplash is ok
<mhall119|work> is Lucid going to have both USplash and XSplash still, like Karmic?  Or will USplash be dropped?
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: afaik lucid is going to use plymouth, it's a *lot* smoother than usplash. I don't think it actually uses usplash
<mhall119|work> plymouth?  I thought they didn't like that
<mhall119|work> I thought XSplash was the alternative to plymouth
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: I think xsplash is going to stay though, not sure if plymouth replaces that either. stgraber played with plymouth on LTSP yesterday
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: well, things change... fast :)
<mhall119|work> does plymouth run on X11, or the kernel frame buffeR?
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: well, it uses KMS (kernel mode switching), so I guess it uses both
<mhall119|work> it may not use X11
<mhall119|work> KMS doesn't need it
<highvoltage> well it fades into your X session when your X session is ready
<highvoltage> so I guess there's some integration there
<mhall119|work> ah, then it's probably built on X
<mhall119|work> I don't think KMS can do fading between
<highvoltage> it may be that kms brings up X without any mode changes or flashes and then X does the fading, I'm not sure, I haven't played with it myself yet, but I'm installing lucid on an extra laptop and see what it does
<mhall119|work> sbalneav: does nanny to web content filtering?
<stgraber> highvoltage: xplash will likely be replaced by plymouth X support
<stgraber> highvoltage: I tried it and it works fine and so did Keybuk, so I expect it to be the logical replacement of xsplash
<sbalneav> mhall119|work: Dunno yet.
<sbalneav> lemme look
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: ^^^
<sbalneav> mhall119|work: http://git.gnome.org/browse/nanny/tree/help/nanny.xml
<sbalneav> looks like access to websites, but not content filtering.
<sbalneav> use dansguardian for that.
<alkisg> So what's the key reason to use nanny? PC time limits?
<sbalneav> prolly
<sbalneav> heading home, be on later.
<alkisg> If it does a good work at that, I'll use it for my kids :D (but not at school, no reason there...)
<alkisg> Hmmm editing docbooks with openoffice... http://xml.openoffice.org/xmerge/docbook/UserGuide.html
<alkisg> Since I'm mostly using openoffice, it wouldn't be a bad idea to use the template offered there, for easier docbook exporting...
#edubuntu 2009-12-24
<sbalneav> Evening all
<alkisg> !info grub-pc jaunty
<ubottu> grub-pc (source: grub2): GRand Unified Bootloader, version 2 (PC/BIOS version). In component main, is extra. Version 1.96+20080724-12ubuntu2 (jaunty), package size 1301 kB, installed size 3812 kB (Only available for i386 kfreebsd-i386 hurd-i386 amd64 kfreebsd-amd64 lpia powerpc ppc64)
<sbalneav> Morning all
<sbalneav> Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, Kickin' Kwanzaa, Happy Hanukkah, Frolicking Festivus, etc etc.
<sbalneav> In other words, from me to you
<sbalneav> cheers!
<alkisg> Hmmm "Merry Christmas" doesn't follow the Ubuntu naming conventions, we should change it... Cheerful Christmas everyone :)
<sbalneav> heh
<sbalneav> Nobody here but us chickens
#edubuntu 2009-12-26
<sbalneav> Evening all
<mhall119> evening sbalneav
<sbalneav> Afternoon all
<alkisg> Hi sbalneav
<sbalneav> Did you have a Merry Christmas?
 * alkisg has the "share the live edubuntu DVD over the network while inside the live session" script ready, will post a mail when my site's up again... :(
<alkisg> Sure, it was fine. Friends & family, nothing extreme... you?
<sbalneav> On Christmas eve, I hacked symlink support into sabayon. :)
<sbalneav> We did the turkey dinner with the family yesterday.
<sbalneav> As usual, I did all the cooking :)
 * alkisg can only cook pancakes
<sbalneav> Turkey, Stuffing, mashed sweet potatoes, carrots, salad, pumpkin pie.
<sbalneav> Ah, you should learn how to cook!
<sbalneav> If you know how to cook, you always eat what you want. :)
<alkisg> Nah I'm already 105 Kg, if I learn how to cook I'll become 200!
<sbalneav> heh
<sbalneav> I love to cook!
<alkisg> I used to hate cooking, and, amazingly, eating... bah I've changed a lot :D
#edubuntu 2009-12-27
<Balsaq> is edubuntu prepared for use in a 7th grade Social Studies classroom?
#edubuntu 2010-12-27
<coz_> hey guys
<coz_> I am downloading the alpha right now... is this also  having unity / compiz ?
<workteen> hello fellow edubuntees
#edubuntu 2010-12-28
<mymrhelpdesk> hi all
<mymrhelpdesk> i just setup an ubuntu ltsp server anyone had any experience with one?
<JohnB112> I have a little experience, but not much. What's your question?
<mymrhelpdesk> i just setup a server ubuntu 10.10 ltsp preload i get an error on client when booting
<mymrhelpdesk> cannot connect to nbd server
<mymrhelpdesk> client pull's an ip and starts with ubuntu splash screen then i get that message
<JohnB112> The "out of the box" LTSP server for Ubuntu is preconfigured for x86 processor clients. Is that the processor on your PXE clients?
<JohnB112> We have AMD processors on our clients. Had to configure the LTSP config file for AMD, not 386.
<mymrhelpdesk> yeah, i'm using a intel core 2 desktop pc
<mymrhelpdesk> might be the problem maby since is dual core?
<JohnB112> Some of the posts suggest "ltsp-update-image --arch i386" to solve the "cannot connect to nbd server" error
<JohnB112> This link helped us get our LTSP server up and running: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1473451
<JohnB112> I also found that certain Dell computers simply would not work as clients, while others would. Both had Pentium 4 processors. Have you tried another client?
<JohnB112> Yes, I would think it could be possible.
<JohnB112> There is a procedure for using "chroot" to update the client images and then rebuild them on the server. Are you familiar with that?
<mymrhelpdesk> no
<mymrhelpdesk> would love information
<mymrhelpdesk> i just tried a dell laptop an inspirion 1100 same message
<mymrhelpdesk> unable to connect to nbd server
<JohnB112> There's actually a YouTube video someone did on chroot. Very short, but very, very helpful. I actually followed along on Ubuntu while I watched the video... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bARxhOn3mKo
<mymrhelpdesk> ok thanks
<JohnB112> Have you read this post: http://www.rickogden.com/2010/06/ltsp-part-2-configuration/
<JohnB112> Good luck!
<mymrhelpdesk> power failure i'm back
 * daker is away: OccupÃ©
<highvoltage> mhall119: you responded to me directly (as apposed to the list), not sure if that was intentional
<mhall119>  it was, I thought evolution handled list replying correctly
<mhall119> it was unintentional
<mhall119> re-sent to the list
<highvoltage> you left the "Fwd:" in the subject line and top-posted
 * highvoltage wonders how mhall119 responds to persistant poking
 * mhall119 bites
#edubuntu 2010-12-29
<highvoltage> hey everyone
<mhall119> morning
<highvoltage> hey mhall119 I was wondering if you were around
<mhall119> I am
<highvoltage> indeed :)
<highvoltage> I wasn't particularly looking for you, but I thought that if *someone* would be around at this time it would be you
<mhall119> any progress on debmower?
<highvoltage> no, I suck. I spent pretty much the last week just watching TV and vegging out
<highvoltage> the next week should be somewhat better :)
<mhall119> no worries, I did pretty much the same
<mhall119> that's the true meaning of christmas, after all
<mhall119> I'm still torn about what to do with xdg-launcher
<highvoltage> yeah, stuffing yourself and lying around is indeed the TrueMeaningâ¢ of christmas :)
<highvoltage> I don't have an idea for xdg-launcher, if you feel strongly that that is what it should be called you can always just fight for it
<highvoltage> but I guess it probably is more appropriate to call it something else out of the xdg namespace
<mhall119> yeah, but it seems like a silly think to fight over
<highvoltage> *nod*
<mhall119> I may just call it qimo-launcher for 11.04, then work on a more generic one for 11.10
<highvoltage> that sounds sensible, although going with something more generic from the start will save you the trouble of dealing with transitional packages due to name changes
<mhall119> true
<mhall119> then again, I can always call it qimo-launcher but still make it generic enough for non-qimo use
<highvoltage> indeed
<mhall119> http://www.examiner.com/computers-in-nashville/come-0n-nashville-let-s-qimo
<mhall119> Edubuntu gets a plug there too
<mhall119> though, I'm not quite sure what "let's Qimo" means....
<highvoltage> cool! interesting, I haven't made the direct link in my head from 'qimo' to 'eskimo' yet
<mhall119> really?
<mhall119> I try to advertise that pretty heavily
<mhall119> it helps people pronoune it right
<highvoltage> yes. maybe I did on some level but I didn't direclty think it. then again I might not have read that many qimo stuff before then (oops)
<mhall119> probably the latter, I didn't start heavily advertising it until version 2, so you'd probably already read most everything before then
<highvoltage> ah cool, they mention weblive too
<mhall119> yeah
<mhall119> highvoltage: that page seems to be a tad bit biased, so I'd question even if the images are real
<mhall119> but, even if they are, they're for the software freedom law center, not the free software foundation
<highvoltage> mhall119: bkuhn said they are real, I don't have a problem with the salaries per se
<highvoltage> (weird how people jump to that conclusion though)
<mhall119> yeah, I guess there wasn't a reason to assume that you did
<mhall119> I was more struck that the guy who posted it seems to think that the FSF is paying those salaries
<highvoltage> yeah he seems to have some kind of weird agenda
<highvoltage> oh right, he seems to want everyone to use BSD licensed systems
<highvoltage> (read that on one of his other pages)
<mhall119> yeah, I saw that
<mhall119> he also mentions GPL4
<mhall119> not sure what that is
#edubuntu 2010-12-30
<rtdos> where can i download edubuntu?
<charlie-tca> rtdos: http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/releases/10.10/release/
#edubuntu 2011-01-01
<rtdos> is it possible to install edubuntu (without installing the gnome desktop) on a computer that already has xubuntu (i do not wish to use the gnome desktop)
<stgraber> you can install the ubuntu-edu-* packages
<rtdos> without installing gnome?
<stgraber> yes
<stgraber> these are the meta packages installing all the education tools
<rtdos> oh, so i have to install each package separately but edubuntu-desktop contains all the packages?
<stgraber> edubuntu-desktop is basically a gnome desktop and all the ubuntu-edu packages
<rtdos> ah, gotcha!
<rtdos> i can do that for kde too? or does edubuntu have a one just for kde?
<stgraber> we have edubuntu-desktop-kde that might work better for kde
<rtdos> now, i have one other laptop that has lubuntu (lxde) on it, any known issues i should be aware of by just installing the edubuntu meta packages on that?
<stgraber> I don't think so, it'll bring quite a bit of kde related packages as most educational tools come from kdeedu
<rtdos> do you mean the meta packages or the edubuntu-desktop-kde ?
<stgraber> but other than using some additional disk space, I'm not aware of any issue
<rtdos> ah, gotcha!
<rtdos> thank you stgraber
<stgraber> no prob
<alkisg> Happy new year to all
<highvoltage> happy new year to you too alkisg :)
#edubuntu 2011-01-02
<TakeoOtori> hiho, ich mache meine facharbeit Ã¼ber edubuntu und zwar geht es sich um das aufsetzen von servern und clients. ist es sinnvoll Maverick(10.10 )zu nehmen? in den wiki eintrÃ¤gen steht LTSP halt nur bei hardy, karmic und lucid getestet... aber es mÃ¼sste bei maverick doch auch alles schon stable laufen, oder?
#edubuntu 2011-12-30
<stochastic> hey, is this the dev channel for edubuntu or is there one?
<mhall119> stochastic: this is it
#edubuntu 2011-12-31
<stochastic> Okay, I was wondering if anyone could chit/chat with me about the live-dvd code you use.  I'm looking to port it to the Ubuntu Studio project.  Who'd be the best to talk to?
#edubuntu 2012-01-01
<mhall119> stochastic: I think highvoltage does the live-DVD spin
<aimwin> happy new year everyone
<aimwin> I need help can I ask now, this is my first time in this channel?
<aimwin> hello anyone online?
<aimwin> hello anyone online?
<aimwin> thanks, I have installed Edubuntu 11.10 with Classic-fallback option, then login with Unity-Ubuntu later, and install ClassicMenu Indicator, and tiny2. Update every to 3.0.14 kernel,
<aimwin> Then I found Genome-shell is install so I login use option Gnome-shell, and found the Gnome3 (Gnome-shell) hang up, reboot many times, even through recovery back to 3.0.12 kernel the desktop just hang up after a screen with top bar and Internet connection done. I could only Clrt+Alt 1 to open terminal and sudo reboot.
<aimwin> Can we go in and edit any login default files so it will boot into Unity or Gnome fallback which work perfectly for days now.
<kaal0022> Hello can anyone help me out on how to run authconfig in edubuntu
<kaal0022> I am trying to integrate LTSP with AD
<kaal0022> http://math.univ-lille1.fr/~hafidi/terminal-services/authentication_and_homedirs_on_windows.html
<kaal0022> That is the tutorial I am following.
<anddam> hello
<anddam> I'm trying to apply http://askubuntu.com/a/258 to an user on edubuntu
<anddam> when I start Software Center I get a request for password for another user
<anddam> the action prompted is org.debian.apt.install-or-remove-package
#edubuntu 2012-12-29
<Polle> Helle
#edubuntu 2012-12-30
<airjump> Hello
<alkisg> Hi
#edubuntu 2013-12-23
<uBUXUBu> hello teachers
<uBUXUBu> is this project still being developed?
#edubuntu 2013-12-27
<TH063> 	Folks, with apologies, this is ALL new to me. I'm trying to set up an Edubuntu box for my 4 year old and apparently do not have the 'correct' mouse or keyboard. Is there a list of compatible components?
<TH063> OK, I'm obviously not in the right place or otherwise doing something wrong. Apologies for wasting the space and time.
#edubuntu 2014-12-23
<RonSilver> Hello. I have been trying to find a good version of Ubuntu to put on a computer to give to my 6 year old son. Is this a good version?
<oed> Sure, it has the simplicity of ubuntu with additional education tools
#edubuntu 2015-12-27
<saturday> i can't join #grubs - invite only lol
#edubuntu 2016-12-28
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxd (xenial-backports/main) [2.6.2-0ubuntu3~ubuntu16.04.1 => 2.7-0ubuntu2~ubuntu16.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2017-12-28
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: suitesparse [s390x] (bionic-proposed/main) [1:5.1.2~beta-2ubuntu1] (edubuntu, kubuntu, ubuntugnome)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: suitesparse [amd64] (bionic-proposed/main) [1:5.1.2~beta-2ubuntu1] (edubuntu, kubuntu, ubuntugnome)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: suitesparse [ppc64el] (bionic-proposed/main) [1:5.1.2~beta-2ubuntu1] (edubuntu, kubuntu, ubuntugnome)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: suitesparse [i386] (bionic-proposed/main) [1:5.1.2~beta-2ubuntu1] (edubuntu, kubuntu, ubuntugnome)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: suitesparse [arm64] (bionic-proposed/main) [1:5.1.2~beta-2ubuntu1] (edubuntu, kubuntu, ubuntugnome)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: suitesparse [armhf] (bionic-proposed/main) [1:5.1.2~beta-2ubuntu1] (edubuntu, kubuntu, ubuntugnome)
#edubuntu 2017-12-29
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: suitesparse [s390x] (bionic-proposed/main) [1:5.1.2~beta-2ubuntu1] (edubuntu, kubuntu, ubuntugnome)
#edubuntu 2019-12-24
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: gnome-panel [s390x] (focal-proposed/universe) [1:3.35.1-1ubuntu1] (desktop-extra, edubuntu, ubuntu-budgie)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: gnome-panel [ppc64el] (focal-proposed/universe) [1:3.35.1-1ubuntu1] (desktop-extra, edubuntu, ubuntu-budgie)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: gnome-panel [amd64] (focal-proposed/universe) [1:3.35.1-1ubuntu1] (desktop-extra, edubuntu, ubuntu-budgie)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: gnome-panel [arm64] (focal-proposed/universe) [1:3.35.1-1ubuntu1] (desktop-extra, edubuntu, ubuntu-budgie)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: gnome-panel [armhf] (focal-proposed/universe) [1:3.35.1-1ubuntu1] (desktop-extra, edubuntu, ubuntu-budgie)
#edubuntu 2019-12-26
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: gnome-panel [amd64] (focal-proposed/universe) [1:3.35.1-1ubuntu1] (desktop-extra, edubuntu, ubuntu-budgie)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: gnome-panel [arm64] (focal-proposed/universe) [1:3.35.1-1ubuntu1] (desktop-extra, edubuntu, ubuntu-budgie)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: gnome-panel [ppc64el] (focal-proposed/universe) [1:3.35.1-1ubuntu1] (desktop-extra, edubuntu, ubuntu-budgie)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: gnome-panel [armhf] (focal-proposed/universe) [1:3.35.1-1ubuntu1] (desktop-extra, edubuntu, ubuntu-budgie)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: gnome-panel [s390x] (focal-proposed/universe) [1:3.35.1-1ubuntu1] (desktop-extra, edubuntu, ubuntu-budgie)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: gnome-panel [ppc64el] (focal-proposed/universe) [1:3.35.1-1ubuntu1] (desktop-extra, edubuntu, ubuntu-budgie)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: gnome-panel [s390x] (focal-proposed/universe) [1:3.35.1-1ubuntu1] (desktop-extra, edubuntu, ubuntu-budgie)
#edubuntu 2019-12-27
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: gnome-panel [amd64] (focal-proposed/universe) [1:3.35.1-1ubuntu1] (desktop-extra, edubuntu, ubuntu-budgie)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: gnome-panel [arm64] (focal-proposed/universe) [1:3.35.1-1ubuntu1] (desktop-extra, edubuntu, ubuntu-budgie)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: gnome-panel [armhf] (focal-proposed/universe) [1:3.35.1-1ubuntu1] (desktop-extra, edubuntu, ubuntu-budgie)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: gnome-panel [ppc64el] (focal-proposed/universe) [1:3.35.1-1ubuntu1] (desktop-extra, edubuntu, ubuntu-budgie)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: gnome-panel [s390x] (focal-proposed/universe) [1:3.35.1-1ubuntu1] (desktop-extra, edubuntu, ubuntu-budgie)
