#ubuntu-artwork 2006-04-03
<offthehook> um yeah. to the Official Tango Theme peoples: i think that this firefox icon would be great to incorporate into the tango-apps collection. http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=36556
<lapo> hi
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-04-04
<Randy> hey
<Randy> not a lot of activity in here :(
<lapo> hi
<nomed> hey lapo
<nomed> lapo, let me know when you'll have 5 min
<lapo> yo nomed, now I should have 5 min, more or less...
<nomed> perfect :)
<nomed> lapo, i think we can go with tango in xubuntu
<lapo> cool
<nomed> but not yet sure if we can use tango icons
<nomed> :/
<nomed> i mean
<nomed> apt-get install edubuntu-artwork
<lapo> uhm?
<nomed> those tango-brown are already in main
<nomed> we can use them for sure
<nomed> if it'll be  a problem for pure tango 
<nomed> it looks absurd i know
<lapo> there should be tangerine in main i believe with is based on my orangotango
<lapo> not sure tho
<nomed> lapo, the dholbach pkge ?
<nomed> i do not think it 's in main
<nomed> lapo, anyway we'll have at least one tango based icon theme
<nomed> from which we can inherit
<nomed> and this is very important 
<lapo> tango based isn't that gartoon?
<nomed> lapo, anyway i guess the only condition to have the xubuntu icon theme in main is that it has to be complete
<nomed> lapo, edubuntu dapper
<nomed> Tango-Brown
<lapo> we should use tango it's silly to use that one
<nomed> lapo, yes
<nomed> and it's what we'll probably do
<nomed> but at the moment that's what we have for sure
<nomed> when u think u can start workin on xubuntu-icon-theme ?
<nomed> what are your plans ?
<nomed> i mean do u think to change any colors
<nomed> or to use tango icons as they are ?
<nomed> (not brown ones)
<lapo> dunno, I need to know which colors you'd like to base the xubuntu look on
<lapo> where I can find the gtk theme you were talking about
<lapo> fsck, nobody listening, let's use italian :-)
<nomed> lapo,ok
<lapo> dicevamo dov' che trovo sto grafite
<nomed> graphite theme su gnome-look o xfce-look
<nomed> ne trovi parecchi
<nomed> lapo cmq ..
<nomed> e' una mia idea .. perche' andreasen(?)
<nomed> non so come si scrive
<nomed> mi disse il grigio poteva andare bene per xubuntu ..
<nomed> visto il target
<nomed> in realta' sei totalmente libero su tutto
<nomed> a partire dal logo ad arrivare a tutto quello che ti senti o hai il tempo di fare
<lapo> bon, vedo di sprippolarti qualcosa nel weekend
<nomed> perfetto
<nomed> credo per la prossima settimana ci siano le iso
<nomed> a quel punto forse ci sara' piu' gente interessata a dare una mano
<nomed> http://www.dsslive.org/xubuntu/tmp/artworks/html/logos.html
<nomed> qui ci sono alcuni tests che ho fatto
<lapo> la pantegana ce la vuoi per forza? :-)
<nomed> eheheh
<nomed> lapo, per me e' totalmente indifferente
<lapo> intanto pensiamo al logo va che  la cosa principale, vedro di inviarti qualcosa
<nomed> tieni pero' presente che quello che ha identificato xubuntu fino ad ora
<nomed> e' il primo logo in alto
<nomed> perfetto :)
<nomed> lapo, l'ultima cosa poi ho finito
<nomed> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperXubuntuLook <--
<nomed> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperXubuntuLogo <--
<lapo> si si avevo visto
<nomed> mi sottoscrivo alla pagina
<nomed> tu potresti linkare li il tutto ..
<lapo> io ti spiaccico tutto qui poi al limite vedi te se linkare
<nomed> come preferisci
<nomed> cmq sentiti libero di di farlo tu direttamente
<nomed> now i should go for a while
<nomed> cu 
<nomed> lapo, xubuntu team is fine with green too ..
<nomed> the main color will depend on you i think :)
<lapo> hi
<nomed> hi lapo 
<lapo> yo nomed
<nomed> :)
<nomed> lapo, it looks like this chan is not really active as it was ...
<nomed> any reasons ?
<nomed> or just less ubuntu-artists ?
<lapo> is there an ubuntu-artist?
<lapo> I didn't know it even existed
<nomed> lapo, nhaa
<lapo> there are way too many #ubuntu-* channels tho :-)
<nomed> i mean if the number of ubuntu artists :)
<nomed> there are really few at the moment ..
<lapo> uhm..that sucks
<nomed> lapo, i've just seen this browsing the ubuntu-art list
<nomed> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=36370
<nomed> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2006-March/000746.html <-- nice to see Mark is happy with graphite too ..
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-04-05
<Tm_T> ugh
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-04-07
<bluetux_tbook> hi
<dimension128> Is there a webpage, wiki, or anything I can go to, to see what specific artwork is still needed for dapper?
<bluetux_tbook> dimension128, i don't know well, but do yo check https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam/TodoList ?
<dimension128> yes found that after a while, but thank you.
<andreasn> bluetux_tbook: are you good at icons?
<bluetux_tbook> andreasn, a little.
<bluetux_tbook> andreasn, i am just amature, making icon is just hobby.
<andreasn> there are some icons that could made looking better in dapper
<bluetux_tbook> where i find them?
<andreasn> well, I only made a little list of my own
<andreasn> System info under Applications/System Tools could be improved
<bluetux_tbook> I will try
<andreasn> and some icons in Add to Panel is not in tango-style yet
<bluetux_tbook> oh, tango-style.
<andreasn> well, you could make them in some other style, but that would be less usable upstream
<bluetux_tbook> I will try to, as i can.
<bluetux_tbook> andreasn, do you konw I make some icon theme?
<andreasn> how do you mean?
<andreasn> here are the tango-guidelines btw, http://tango-project.org/Tango_Icon_Theme_Guidelines
<bluetux_tbook> andreasn, i c and my mean I make jini icon theme (http://jini.kldp.net) 
<bluetux_tbook> oh, that guideline is very detail.
<andreasn> making sure stuff get consitent
<andreasn> nice icons
<bluetux_tbook> thanks
<nomed> andreasn, your opinion about this ... ?
<nomed> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperXubuntuGtkTheme
<nomed> i ask here .. i suppose it's better :)
<andreasn> looks great!
<andreasn> does tango-aliminium depend on tango-icon-theme, or is all the icons in there already?
<nomed> andreasn, all icons in there
<andreasn> ok, good
<nomed> andreasn, anyway i think that if the xubuntu icons theme will be complete ... 
<nomed> there shouldn't be problem ..
<nomed> i mean it 's possible to include all the icons within the theme pkge
<andreasn> yes
<nomed> it'll be just a tango like theme
<nomed> as for edubuntu .. but i should ask better ...
<nomed> i'll test even how it looks graphite+green
<nomed> instead of blue ...
<andreasn> cool
<Firebird8> hello
<Firebird8> how would i join this art work team?
<bluetux_tbook> Firebird8, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam
<andreasn> there is some page in the wiki where you can add your name
<andreasn> what stuff are you interested in?
<Firebird8> im looking at it
<Firebird8> icons splashscreen desktop
<Firebird8> how do i run the widget factory
<Firebird8> or does that not exist
<Firebird8> do i just edit the member list
<andreasn> yep
<Firebird8> that simple...
<Firebird8> and how do i upload work for ppls to see..
<andreasn> put it on some webspace somewhere and post a mail to the ubuntu-art mailing list
<andreasn> if you are interested in icons, you could track down application icons not using tango-style yet and redo those
<Firebird8> umk
* Firebird8 uses blender to do this
<andreasn> interesting
<Firebird8> oh the cd icon needs the tango theme
<Firebird8> interesting?
<andreasn> I think jimmac used blender in the process when making some icons
<andreasn> I never heard anyone that used blender only when making icons
<Firebird8> i render it and post process in gimp
<Firebird8> and blender makes it easier .. um for me
<andreasn> is it possible to export svg's from blender?
<Firebird8> lemme check
<Firebird8> or ill export it from gimp
<Firebird8> no svg
<Firebird8> this is retarted
<Firebird8> brb
<Firebird8> bak
<Firebird8> all my icons went on top of eachother
<Firebird8> where are the human tango icons located
<andreasn> http://xoomer.virgilio.it/bat/orango-tango/orango-tango-0.0.3.tar.bz2
<Firebird8> no on the system
<Firebird8> im running Flight 6
<Firebird8> Dapper
<Firebird8> or do i still have to download it
<andreasn> I have sent them of to dholbach and I think he was going to make a package of them
<andreasn> but I'm not sure he has gotten around to it yet
<Firebird8> maybe tango should come in a variety of colors
<andreasn> there are lots of color variations over at gnome-look.org
<Firebird8> lots of those icoons in the package aren't being used...
<Firebird8> i mean the human tango
<Firebird8> to come in diff colors
<andreasn> why do you think that?
* Firebird8 likes black
<Firebird8> ah wel
<andreasn> human tango was made in order to make it blend in better with the human gtk and metacity-theme
<Firebird8> ah ok
<andreasn> and it's pretty easy to find and download color modifications on theming-sites
<Firebird8> how do i install the package i just downloaded
<Firebird8> http://xoomer.virgilio.it/bat/orango-tango/orango-tango-0.0.3.tar.bz2
<Firebird8> ^
<Firebird8> compile?
<andreasn> yep
<andreasn> ./autogen.sh
<andreasn> make
<andreasn> make install
<Firebird8> do i need su to do the last
<andreasn> yes
<Firebird8> ok its not gonna compile
<Firebird8> it failed to detect something i already have
<andreasn> icon-naming-utils?
<Firebird8> no
<Firebird8> imagemagick
<andreasn> do you have the imagemagick-dev package installed?
<Firebird8> imagemagick-devE: Package imagemagick-dev has no installation candidate
<Firebird8> there is no imagemagick-dev
<Firebird8> gonna restart
<Firebird8> just updated
<Firebird8> wat type of file does the compile make
<andreasn> ??
<Firebird8> nvm
<Firebird8> it won't compile
<andreasn> have you tried libmagick9-dev?
<Firebird8> installing..
<Firebird8> thanks
<Firebird8> compiled..
<andreasn> cool
<Firebird8> how do i use it now
<Firebird8> its not in the icon list
<andreasn> it's not?
<andreasn> hm...
<Firebird8> theres human but thats the old one
<andreasn> hm, run ./autogen.sh again
<andreasn> and then ./configure --prefix=/usr
<andreasn> make
<andreasn> make install
<andreasn> that might do the trick
<Firebird8> maybe ill just replace the old images/icons with the new ones
<Firebird8> would that work
<Firebird8> /usr/share/icons/Human/
<andreasn> not sure, sounds a bit hard
<andreasn> compiling it correctly is easier
<Firebird8> autogen desn't work
<andreasn> theme details > Icons
<Firebird8> I did make, ./configure make install
<andreasn> no orango tango there?
<Firebird8> nope
<andreasn> ./configure --prefix=/usr
<andreasn> try that instead
<Firebird8> nothing
<andreasn> strange
<Firebird8> ***Error***: some autoconf macros required to build orango-tango-icon-theme
<Firebird8>   were not found in your aclocal path, or some forbidden
<Firebird8>   macros were found.  Perhaps you need to adjust your
<Firebird8>   ACLOCAL_FLAGS?
<Firebird8> oh shity
<Firebird8> ill drag and drop icons
<andreasn> human still use the old naming-scheme though
<Firebird8> tango came with Dapper i think
<Firebird8> im using it atm
<Firebird8> but it doesn't have all the icons
<Firebird8> wats the icon file format
<Firebird8> where u drag and drop into the icon theme choser
<Firebird8> ill go make wallpaper
<Firebird8> is there a ubuntu icon that is very large
<andreasn> so you can scale it up?
<Firebird8> no
<Firebird8> so i can model it
<andreasn> btw, do you have autotools-dev installed?
<Firebird8> i ubuntu icon that is a large image
<andreasn> m4 might be usable aswell
<Firebird8> its installed
<Firebird8> ima look on google image
<andreasn> in the orango-tango-set there is a good logo in /scalable/places/start-here.svg
<andreasn> hm, there is some package called autoconf-archive aswell
<Firebird8> thx
<andreasn> not sure if that will make stuff work or not
<andreasn> dependency-hell ;)
<Firebird8> ok made the ubuntu icon in blender
<Firebird8> oH!
<Firebird8> i just figured out y the ubuntu cds are colored the way they are
<andreasn> oh?
<Firebird8> does this match the theme even though it sucks: http://www.firegfx.byethost7.com/images/test.png
<andreasn> what did you change?
<Firebird8> the title bar
<Firebird8> just a test
<Firebird8> how do i edit .theme files or are they just text files
* Firebird8 is away: Away
* Firebird8 is back (gone 00:00:00)
<nomed> do u know if there is a taskmanager icon for gnome ?
<Firebird8> there is
<Firebird8> nomed, there is an icon
<nomed> Firebird8, do u know the name too ?
<Firebird8> um no
<nomed> and if it's even on ubuntu icons theme ?
<Firebird8> i can find it
<Firebird8> does flight 6 use the tango theme
<Firebird8> nomed, i think its computer.svg
<Firebird8> but not sure
<nomed> umm
<Firebird8> flight 6 is not 100% using tango theme
<Firebird8> um
* Firebird8 doesn't like the tango theme
<Firebird8> the HUMAN icon theme which came with Dapper flight 6 is better
* Firebird8 is away: TORCS
* Firebird8 is back (gone 00:11:33)
* Firebird8 is away: learning wings
* Firebird8 is back (gone 00:05:34)
* Firebird8 is away: cherry blossoms!!
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-artwork:Firebird8] : Ubuntu Artworkj
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-artwork:Firebird8] : Ubuntu Artwork
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-04-08
* Firebird8 is away: dinner
* Firebird8 is back (gone 00:10:50)
<lapo> hi
<lapo> hi there
<lapo> hi
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-04-09
<lapo> hi
<nomed> hi lapo 
<nomed> bad news ...
<nomed> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2006-April/000918.html <--
<nomed> anyway i haven't strong objections ...
<nomed> but i 's love to see that logo as xubuntu logo ..
<nomed> i like it more day by day ..
<nomed> http://www.dsslive.org/xubuntu/tmp/artworks/html/logos.html <--
<nomed> it looks the one that fit better with the others ..
<lapo> no probs, if the xubuntu guys likes it good, if not, well
<nomed> lapo, at least one likes it ...
<nomed> but it's not enough ..
<nomed> the mouse seems a must ..
<lapo> is there a foot in the ubuntu logo?
<lapo> anyway, if you like you can use it, if not, not a problem
<nomed> lapo, that's exactly my point of view ..
<nomed> i mean ... the DM logo shouldn't be included in the distro logo ..
<delire> where would be a useful place to make some comments on the look'n'feel of Flight 6? i'd rather not be registering 'bugs' as such because they don't fit that criteria.
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-04-02
<lapo> hi there
<kwwii> hi
<andreasn_> hi lapo
<lapo> yo kwwii, andreasn
<kwwii> lapo: great work on the stock icons, btw
<lapo> kwwii: thanks, I didn't do very much, you should thank andreasn for the effort who did a lot of icons and hyped the event in every possible way, yay andreasn! :-)
<andreasn> well, I just blogged about it a bit
<kwwii> andreasn: they really are a big improvement on the stock icons :-)
<kwwii> we're putting them in feisty :-)
<andreasn> oh
<andreasn> cool
<kwwii> very nice indeed :-)
<lapo> kwwii: I was talking with dholach and seb about shipping them
<kwwii> lapo: yeah, he pinged me about it
<lapo> kwwii: the best approach imho is to have the icons shipped in hicolor
<lapo> what do you think about it?
<kwwii> lapo: exactly what we are doing
<lapo> cool
<lapo> tango-common then?
<andreasn> hopefully they can go into gtk+ upstream so that people on windows and osx can enjoy them, ported apps often look like total crap on those platforms right now
<lapo> I think either tango-common or ubuntu-artwork will do the trick
<kwwii> andreasn: yes, definitely :-)
<kwwii> lapo: I am guessing ubuntu-artwork
<lapo> andreasn: yeah, but I'd like to have them shipped before the flamewar..erhm discussion on gtk+ list ends positivelly :-)
<lapo> kwwii: ok
<kwwii> lapo: erm, tango-common, I meant
<kwwii> my brain is not in sync with my fingers today
<lapo> eheh, kwwii, well it's always like that for me :-)
<andreasn> lapo: I'm not sure if there really was a big flamewar, it was mostly one dude saying "hey, what's this stuff, don't we break something now?!" and someone else saying "I kind of like the current ones because they are kind of cute, or whatever"
<andreasn> and the rest of the devs didn't say anything at all, as usual :)
<kwwii> sounds like artwork fud to me
* kwwii gets lunch...bbl
<lapo> andreasn: yeah
<lapo> andreasn: the same "don't brake old" stuff argument
<andreasn> we made sure we're only used the same metaphors, so it don't "break" apps that misuses the stock icons
<andreasn> so it shouldn't really be any trouble
<andreasn> time will tell
<kwwii_> re
<bersace> troy_s: hi bro
<bersace> i send you update icons for ubuntu-art team branding at lp
<bersace> troy_s: could also update chan topic ?
<kwwii> bersace: what should the topic be?
<bersace> kwwii: "Ubuntu gets it right"
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [+o kwwii]  by ChanServ
<bersace> ;)
<bersace> well, i have a bug for people using fingerprint reader
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-artwork:kwwii] : Welcome to #ubuntu-artwork.  Ubuntu gets it right
<bersace> :D
<kwwii> ;-)
* bersace checks gnome-looks.org
<kwwii> bersace: does the fingerprint reader work in linux now?
* kwwii has one on this laptop
<kwwii> the only reason I boot windows is to impress my friends
<bersace> at least thinkpad and thinkpad based laptop
<kwwii> killer :-)
<bersace> lol
<kwwii> can you point me to a package or such?
<bersace> kwwii: you could add http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/HumanList?content=54505 to topic
<bersace> kwwii: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThinkFinger
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-artwork:kwwii] : Welcome to #ubuntu-artwork.  Ubuntu gets it right;  http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/HumanList?content=54505
<kwwii> sure :-)
<bersace> the bug is that "Password or swipe your finger" is show instead of Password:"
<bersace> user only see "Password or s"
<bersace> then the entry is displayed :x
<bersace> i wonder how to try that
<bersace> i may just commit fixes and ask ploum to test my bzr branch
<bersace> how can i merge my branch and your ?
<bersace> i mean, getting back your changes in my branch
<kwwii> hehe, and it doesn't work with kde at all
<kwwii> bersace: good question about merging...I'll try to figure that out
<bersace> my branch is not a fork ;)
<kwwii> I think you enter your local branch and then "bzr merge url-from-the-branch-to-merge"
<kwwii> depending on how far apart they are, you might have to manually add things
<bersace> ok
<kwwii> the thinkfinger stuff would be best with the list theme, as then one would not have to type in the user name
<kwwii> if I didn't need to use kde anymore I would try it :-)
<kwwii> time for dinner, bbl
<bersace> have to go, see you later
<lapo> re
<kwwii> lapo: why is the svg of the applications-graphics icon different from the png version in tangerine?
<lapo> kwwii: I'm not on a feisty machine, can you post a screenshot?
<kwwii> lapo: I was just looking through the package itself (the svg has a paint tube in it, the png does not)
<kwwii> although perhaps you have already changed that
<lapo> lemme check
<lapo> it's probably my fault, I added all the "sources" laying around my discs back to the repository, so it's possible I got the wrong file in
<lapo> kwwii: which size are you referring though?
<kwwii> I've removed that icon from the Human theme so that it defaults back to the tangerine theme
<kwwii> 24x24
<kwwii> for the icons that are shown in the Applications menu
<lapo> kwwii: I see no tube there
<lapo> it's only a brush here
<kwwii> in both the png and the svg?
<lapo> yep
<kwwii> hrm, then I must have an old version
<kwwii> the svg in my system has a tube in it (looks pretty nice too)
<lapo> I think it has always been like that though
<kwwii> I like it a bit better than the brush alone
<lapo> you are probably getting the 48x48 icon scaled down then
<lapo> or the 32x32 one
<kwwii> no, the 24x24 pixmap dir has one with only a brush and the scalable dir has one with brush and tube
<lapo> so why are you getting the tube? :-)
<lapo> while the 22x22 is a brush
<kwwii> I am not seeing the tube being used, but I want to see it :-)
<kwwii> I was thinking about rendering the svg to pngs so that it is used :-)
<lapo> kwwii: naaah, you should scale it down nicelly
<kwwii> the svg I found seems to be made at 48x48
<lapo> yep, as all the svg we have in scalable
<lapo> scalable as the dir
<kwwii> ahaaa, didn't know that
<kwwii> I have so much to learn about gnome icons :-)
<lapo> s/gnome/tango/ eventually :-)
<kwwii> yepp
<kwwii> we put the new icons in tango-common for feisty, btw
<andreasn> the gtk ones?
<kwwii> they look *so* much better than the old ones
<kwwii> yepp
<lapo> kwwii: I'm putting them in tangerine, seems better
<lapo> kwwii: I think I have something buildable even
<andreasn> yeah, they seems popular, wonder who to bug to get them into gtk upstream
<lapo> andreasn: I think jimmac written a new mail to the gtk list
<lapo> kwwii: if you feel like trying tangerine with new gtk stock: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~calamandrei/tangerine-icon-theme/ubuntu/
<andreasn> lapo: ah, just found it
<lapo> ehm well, in a minute, It's still uploading
<kwwii> lapo: cool...although feisty will use them without having to put them in tangerine
<lapo> andreasn: since you're at it, have you got a link? :-)
<kwwii> might be better to keep them seperated for the future
<andreasn> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gtk-devel-list/2007-April/msg00011.html
<kwwii> I feel sorry for jimmac having to convince devs to use those beautifull icons
<lapo> kwwii: speaking with dholbach we concluded it would be better to have them in tangerine then in hicolor
<lapo> andreasn: thanks
<kwwii> lapo: that sounds like more work in the future though
<lapo> kwwii: naah, it's pretty easy all the icons are named gtk-*
<kwwii> be sure to keep a list so that when they are included in gtk we don't ship icons twice
<kwwii> ahaaa, cool
<lapo> see above :-)
<lapo> andreasn: eheh, jimmac didn't used the @novell address :-)
<kwwii> lol, probably better that way (less politics)
<lapo> yeah, really too much politics involved latelly
<kwwii> oh, I think it has been that way for a long time
<andreasn> kwwii: how's the fiesty release looking, getting all the stuff ready in time?
<kwwii> the funniest thing is that the exact opposite situation is going on in kde
<kwwii> andreasn: yeah, looking pretty good
<andreasn> cool
<kwwii> although I am spending days on end trying to sort out icons
<lapo> kwwii: the cool part of doing something else then working for <insert a linux firm here> is that you can fsck up about the politics part :-)
<kwwii> I mean, I only had 2.5 months to do all the art for edubuntu, kubuntu and ubuntu, so it is still somewhat rushed
<lapo> and being an ass with everybody eventually :-)
<kwwii> lapo: very true
<kwwii> feisty+1 should be much better because of the time factor
<kwwii> andreasn: who is taking care of the icon-naming tools?
<lapo> dobey
<andreasn> dobey I think
<kwwii> andreasn: dholbach has changed some of that in the ubuntu version and I am going to take it over
<kwwii> so I wanted to talk to upstream about our changes
<andreasn> ah, ok
<andreasn> cool
<kwwii> great, dobey and I get along *really* well
<kwwii> :p
<andreasn> hrm
<andreasn> not hard to figure ;)
<kwwii> now I know why daniel wanted to hand it over to me
<lapo> kwwii: cool, I just need some missing mappings, can you help me then?
<lapo> eheh
<kwwii> lapo: well, I can try...but I am not to good at python yet
<kwwii> lapo: in any case, I can make sure that it gets done with daniels help :-)
<lapo> eheh
<kwwii> beware that thursday is release freeze
<lapo> kwwii: anyway IIRC it should be some xml files hacking
<kwwii> lapo: that should be doable :-)
<lapo> it's just something like 6 entries
<lapo> can I paste them here, mail or what?
<kwwii> mail would be best...kinda late here (and stargate is running in the background)
<kwwii> kwwii at ubuntu dot com
<lapo> cool
<lapo> thanks a lot
<kwwii> I should be thanking you :-)
<lapo> sent
<lapo> yo bersace
<bersace> lapo: yep
<lapo> how is your scanner magic going?
<bersace> :)
<bersace> nice
<kwwii> lapo: mail received...I'll add that tomorrow
<lapo> kwwii: thanks
<bersace> i migrate homepage to gnome.org :  http://www.gnome.org/projects/gnome-scan/index
<lapo> bersace: cool, have you seen the device naming spec extension?
<kwwii> lapo: np
<bersace> also, gnome-scan now use gnome svn
<lapo> nice
<bersace> lapo: nop, but i launch discussion between HAL and SANe
<bersace> i also ask some API publication from Gegl in order to implement post processing on top o Gegl
<lapo> cool
<bersace> http://www.gegl.org/
<bersace> i rewrote gnome-scan
<lapo> so I can push scanner buttons?
<bersace> it's now full threaded :D
<bersace> and dynamically builded UI
<lapo> for your quad processor pleasure :-)
<bersace> lapo: not yet, this is part of the SANE/HAL stuff
<andreasn> gnome scan seems really nice
<bersace> however, gnome-scan 0.5 is designed to handle hotplug
<kwwii> bersace: that looks like an awesome idea
<lapo> bersace: make it use device icon naming ext and you almost done then :-)
<bersace> i already wrote documentation
<bersace> and an automated widget screenshot generator
<lapo> sounds really cool
<bersace> the scrot util : http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=441229158&size=o
<bersace> results : http://svn.gnome.org/viewcvs/gnome-scan/trunk/doc/ref/images/
<bersace> there is ton of work to be done
<bersace> especially in the processing part
<bersace> i wrote a plugin system (very easy using GLib)
<bersace> but i might just use Gegl one
<bersace> this will avoid code duplication
<bersace> but i have to ensure their plugin system is adapted for gnome-csan
<lapo> cool
<bersace> for example, i do OCR, deskew, not only rotation and dropdown shadow
<bersace> note that the utility use Gelg to add dropdown shadow ;)
<bersace> also, the nice black border around GSParamSpec*.png are added using Gegl
<bersace> http://svn.gnome.org/viewcvs/gnome-scan/trunk/doc/ref/images/GSParamSpecOutputFilename.png?revision=253&view=markup
<lapo> nice, I need to buy a scanner once again :-)
<bersace> http://svn.gnome.org/viewcvs/gnome-scan/trunk/doc/ref/images/GSParamSpecFilenames.png?revision=253&view=markup
<bersace> lol
<bersace> that's an idea
<bersace> if i work hard enough, i can get it in Gnome 2.20
<bersace> however, i highly depend on Gegl
<lapo> I'm looking forward for it
<bersace> gnome-scan SVN already implement basic acquisition from files
<bersace> (yes, i have a "scan from files" backend)
<lapo> it is really one of the missing bits from the gnome platform
<bersace> ack
<lapo> sane ui is the house of horror
<bersace> xsane is really powerfull, but very ugly for user
<bersace> dare writing an abiword plugin using xsane !
<lapo> yeah, try to explain you girlfriend how to scan something and you'l see :-)
<bersace> yeh, my primary motivation was to let my mother do its scan by herself
<bersace> for now, i'm bound to do it myself for her ;)
<lapo> eheh
<kwwii> that is true motivation
<lapo> did you started from google soc?
<lapo> kwwii: what do you have in mind for feisty+1?
<kwwii> lapo: absolutely no idea yet...I'll start the planning sometime soon
<lapo> cool
<kwwii> ie as soon as feisty is done :-)
<lapo> kwwii: kill the splashes where possible! :-)
<kwwii> yeah, they are a remnant from the days when apps took forever to start
<kwwii> and the desktop splash is simply silly in the meantime
<lapo> yeah
<kwwii> when making the feisty version the biggest problem was that I only see it for like a microsecond - kinda hard to test
<lapo> eheh
<lapo> make it burn slowly then! :-)
<kwwii> ;-)
<lapo> kwwii: some kind of unification in the look of the various buntus would be nice
<lapo> kwwii: I mean same or similar style for bootsplashes, logos and *dm screens
<lapo> wallpapers eventually
<kwwii> lapo: yeah, that is one reason I tried to make the kubuntu/edubuntu/ubuntu usplash similar this time aroudn
<kwwii> but many people think that this is a bad idea (sabdfl for one)
<lapo> there's the need of something in common to make evident that all the buntus are sons of the same mother
<kwwii> I agree completely
<kwwii> one interesting factor that comes into play is that for kde, kubuntu has become somewhat of a reference distro
<lapo> that's cool
<kwwii> well, time for me to get some sleep - tomorrow will be another long day
<andreasn> night!
<lapo> I still hope in an icon unification between the g and k worlds
<lapo> nite nite
<kwwii> see you soon, I hope
<kwwii> I'll let you know once I've added those mappings so you can test it
<lapo> cool, thanks
<kwwii> glad I can help :-)
<kwwii> night all
<bersace> good night
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-04-03
<troy_s> *sigh*
<Madpilot> hmm?
<lapo> moin
<kwwii> moin moin
<lapo> ciao kwwii
<andreasn> hi lapo, kwwii
<kwwii> hi guys
<lapo> ciao andreasn
<kwwii> lapo: the missing mappings are being added :-)
<lapo> andreasn: I'd need an icon for scim-setup any idea?
<andreasn> what do the tool do?
<lapo> andreasn: dunno exactly it should be something related to oriental languages I think
<andreasn> the old one is a key, right?
<lapo> andreasn: yes, a key with scim written on it, i think
<andreasn> the interface looks icky
<andreasn> the first thing you see when you start the app is the stuff people hide in the about box normally
<andreasn> but anyway, I guess you need to go for the key
<andreasn> I need to come up with a icon for this: http://developer.imendio.com/projects/giggle
<TheSheep> andreasn: emoticon? :)
<lapo> andreasn, something silly like a smiling file?
<andreasn> yeah, perhaps
<lapo> andreasn: I mean something like a paper sheet with a smily draw on it or something
<andreasn> I have also been thinking of the lines you can see in the screenshot
<andreasn> branches and stuff
<kwwii> lapo: [12:20]  <dholbach> kwwii: tangerine+tango-stock-icons uploaded
<lapo> kwwii: nice
<bersace> kwwii: i merged :)
<bersace> kwwii: did you try your finger print reader ?
<bersace> does anyone have a fingerprint reader ?
<bersace> ok, nop
<kwwii> bersace: nope, I have to make sure that kde still works
<bersace> ok
<bersace> kwwii: how to have text in two lines
<bersace> ?
<kwwii> ahhh, you mean to that the line breaks when it is too long?
<bersace> yep
<bersace> line wrap
<kwwii> I haven't figured that out myself yet :-(
<bersace> kwwii: i did some rework on humanList
<bersace> i would like you to test it
<bersace> i increased padding
<bersace> i moved back the entry under the label in order to fix "Password or swipe your finger" hidden bug
<kwwii> bersace: cool, point me to it :-)
<kwwii> bersace: did you push your changes?
<bersace> yep
* bersace is making a dist tarabll
<kwwii> ok, I'll get it from there then
<kwwii> cool, that is even better/easier
<bersace> my problem is that i can't upload to my ftp due to ISP failures :S (since two weeks !!)
* bersace is mailing it
<bersace> sent
<kwwii> ouch, crappy isp
<bersace> ack
<bersace> kwwii: got it ?
<kwwii> bersace: yepp
<bersace> k
<kwwii> installing and testing now
<kwwii> bersace: works great :-)
<bersace> i guess, but do you find it consistent with Human
<bersace> ?
<bersace> is it ok ?
<bersace> *you* are the artist !
<kwwii> yes, definitely
<kwwii> ;-)
<kwwii> if it were up to me we would use that per defualt :-)
<bersace> ok
<bersace> so you know what to do now to get it in the repos ;)
<kwwii> yepp, I'll do that in just a moment
<bersace> nice
<bersace> troy_s: ping
<bersace> can you update ubuntu-art icons, please ?
* bersace can't believe lp ubuntu-art team has 249 members
<kwwii> yeah, and 2 or 3 people doing art
<bersace> 
<bersace> andreasn: i sent you updated icons for new lp ubuntu-art branding
<bersace> i'm disappointed that Who didn't update his artwork
<kwwii> guess he has been really busy lately
<lapo> 249?!?
<bersace> hey, Ubugto isn't here
<lapo> wow, most people slacking eh though :-)
<bersace> maybe due to latest lp
<bersace> ubotu bug 1
<ubotu> For help with Microsoft Windows, please visit ##windows or your nearest mental health institute. See http://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/1 http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm and !equivalents
<ubotu> Malone bug 1 in ichthux "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<bersace> lool !
<bersace> ubotu: 234
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about 234 - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<bersace> ubotu: bug 234
<ubotu> Malone bug 234 in baz "baz does not repects TMPDIR variable" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/234
<bersace> ok, so Ubugto has been detroned by ubotu
<bersace> bug 1
<bersace> bug #1
<ubotu> Malone bug 1 in ichthux "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<kwwii> lol, why does it say  ichthux? it is only a derivative
<bersace> ichtux > ubuntu
<lapo> is it fixed in ubuntu? :-9
<bersace> i mean stcmp ("ichutx", "ubuntu") > 0
<bersace> s/stcmp/strcmp/
<kwwii> ichthux == kubuntu
<kwwii> ;-)
<bersace> kwwii: strcmp("ichtux", "kubuntu") == 1
<bersace> ;)
<kwwii> from now on, we should all talk in python :p
<kwwii> that would help me learn it faster :p
<bersace> lol
* bersace love C/GObject
<andreasn> bersace: huh?
<bersace> +s
<bersace> andreasn: :)
<andreasn> bersace: I don't have anything to do with launchpad (as far as I know?)
<bersace> andreasn: you are an ubuntu-art admin
<bersace> afaik
<bersace> according to https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-art/+members
<bersace> so you can go to https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-art/+branding
<andreasn> ah, yeah
<bersace> new launchpad use 14x14 pixel icon for team
<bersace> that's really a wrong idea !
<kwwii> lol, that is not only wrong that is crazy
<bersace> 16x16 is really very tiny enough, and a common size (allong being a power of 2)
<bersace> :)
<kwwii> exactly
<bersace> kwwii:  can you send me a screenshot of the new HumanList ?
<kwwii> bersace: sure, one second
<bersace> andreasn: ping ?
<kwwii> bersace: sent
<bersace> kwwii: got it, thx
<kwwii> np
<andreasn> is it the little image that says art?
<kwwii> lol, I asked why we used that and nobody knows. I asked who is responsible for it, and nobody knows
<andreasn> bersace: I don't seem to have received anything, my inbox is kind of slow sometimes :/
<lapo> anyway new lp sports tango style icons, which is cool
<bersace> andreasn: yes
<andreasn> lapo: I think it's ertz work, he hinted something about it in his blog some time ago
<bersace> andreasn: i sent you an archive icon.tar.gz
<bersace> did you received it ?
<bersace> it contains three icons
<andreasn> bersace: not yet I'm afraid
<bersace> icon-{14,63,192}.png
<bersace> ok
<lapo> andreasn: the icons are nice mostly
<andreasn> "A small image of exactly 14x14 pixels and at most 5kb in size, that can be used to identify this team. The icon will be displayed whenever the team name is listed - for example in listings of bugs or on a person's membership table."
<andreasn> seems launchpad wants a 14x14 image
<bersace> andreasn: i sent it to 	Andreas Nilsson <nisses.mail@home.se>
<lapo> 14x14? wicked
<bersace> s/63/64/
<lapo> andreasn: you really need an easier address :-)
<andreasn> bersace: yeah, that address work, it's just a bit slow sometimes
<andreasn> lapo: like andreas@andreasn.se?
<lapo> yeah, did you got your domain?
<lapo> get
<andreasn> sure, had it for a couple of months now
<lapo> cool, didn't know that, congrats
<andreasn> it got a website with a monkey on it and all
<andreasn> bersace: in case it don't want the 16x16 image, I'll make sure to upload the 64x64 one at least
<bersace> andreasn: i sent you a 14x14
<andreasn> ah, ok, cool
<lapo> andreasn: I like your illustration, your style is...uhm...well swedish! :-)
<lapo> andreasn: I mean the illustrations on your site
<andreasn> I'll just sit on my hands and wait for my friggen mail server then
<bersace> :)
<andreasn> bersace: if you want to you can try to send one to andreas@andreasn.se, that host is much better
<andreasn> lapo: the ones with the pirates and stuff?
* lapo updates his address book
<lapo> andreasn: I like this one most http://www.andreasn.se/images/illustrations/breakfast.png
<bersace> andreasn: sent
<andreasn> lapo: that one is popular apparently
<andreasn> lapo: I better put up my illustrations I did on the 770 some day, that stylus produce wicked stuff
<andreasn> bersace: thanks
<andreasn> bersace: sorry for my crappy e-mail server
<bersace> nop :)
<bersace> kwwii: http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/HumanList?content=54505 updated :)
<kwwii> bersace: cool :-)
<kwwii> bersace: I have to leave to go shopping but I will update the package either later tonight or early tomorrow, ok?
<bersace> nop
<kwwii> hehe, that is very close to "nope" which would mean no :p
<bersace> andreasn: did you get it ?
<bersace> ;)
<bersace> kwwii: also very close to "nop" : "no operation" in assembly
<bersace> or assembler
<kwwii> lol
<kwwii> let's stick to python or something I will actually use in my life ;-)
<bersace> lol : http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/show.php?content=55303
<bersace> kwwii: ;)
* bersace loves assembler
<bersace> well, when gcc carry it
<kwwii> hehe, that proves you are not an artist :p
<bersace> :P
<andreasn> bersace: yep, got it
<andreasn> thanks
<andreasn> I'll put it up right away
<andreasn> bersace: ok, fixed
<bersace> andreasn: thanks
<lapo> hey those icons are nice: http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/BuuF-iconset?content=46201
<lapo> sinister looking
<moyogo> hi
<moyogo> I got the latest update on tangerine icons, but I still get some old gtk stock icons like gtk-cancel
<kwwii> moyogo: that is an open bug (#40940)
<moyogo> kwwii: thanks
<kwwii> np
<lapo> hi
<lapo> does anyone know hoe the "get help online" and "translate this app" icons are named?
<kwwii> lapo rocks :-)
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-04-04
<lapo> and roll
<lapo> uhm...mostly roll though :-)
<lapo> kwwii: I forgot to refer some stuff in the index.theme so the yes/no/apply icons does not show :-/
<lapo> fixed already btw
<troy_s> greets
<lapo> heya troy_s
<kwwii> lapo: yeah, I noticed that
<kwwii> lapo: but you rock for responding so quickly
<kwwii> I was going to ping you tomorrow and ask if I should add it
<lapo> kwwii: i was on that one already :-)
<kwwii> ;-)
<kwwii> ;-)
<kwwii> howdy troy_s
<lapo> I noticed the bu just a pair of mintes after I fixed stuff up :-)
<kwwii> lol, that is how it usually works :-)
<kwwii> troy_s: did you hear about the team logo on LP?
<lapo> kwwii: I'm on network manager icons, do you think we should include jimmac's icons in tango common?
<kwwii> lapo: yes, they are really nice, I think
<troy_s> kwwii you have the ability to update it too...
<troy_s> i have been sickly busy here.
<troy_s> 250 members almost
<troy_s> rather impressive
<troy_s> considering i believe the count was at literally 14 at the start of edgy.
<lapo> kwwii: can you commit to tango-icon-theme-common?
<kwwii> troy_s: although I do not know how, I'll ask someone tomorrow and work that out (I did not know I could update that)
<troy_s> kwwii are you an admin on the group?
<troy_s> if not you should be.
<troy_s> i think you are... let me check
<kwwii> lapo: yes, I think so
<kwwii> troy_s: I just saw that you are admin and assumed only you could do it
<troy_s> i don't really want to step in at this point as you are 'the guy' so it is wise if we keep it accomplished through sanctioned hands.
<troy_s> i am owner yes.
<kwwii> I'll try to figure it out tomorrow....if I have no success I'll ping you about it
<kwwii> kinda late here now
<lapo> kwwii: I have a nice good package with all the jimmac's nm icons, if you want to add them to tango common
<troy_s> just checking now
<troy_s> i have about 10 different things on the fly including a bloody feature so my time is horribly slight
<troy_s> wow
<kwwii> troy_s: I can understand that, I'll bug you again if it doesn't work out :-)
<troy_s> i like the icons on the new launchpad.
<troy_s> very good stuff... who did them?
<kwwii> lapo: cool, send 'em to me per mail or whatever
<kwwii> troy_s: they are tango icons
<lapo> (troy_s: tango style :-))
<troy_s> tango just stroke based?
<troy_s> they look a helluva lot better than tango does when just stroked.
<troy_s> the six big icons at hte top?
<troy_s> those are tango?
<kwwii> nope, those were done by a website design firm
<lapo> ah the big ones, I don't particularly like those
<troy_s> WOW launchpad now interacts with cookies and your menus are
<troy_s> remembered.
<kwwii> "Brilliant Web Design"
<troy_s> kwwii those are slick as piss -- very contemporary in terms of minimalism.
<kwwii> is the name of the company
<troy_s> i am quite impressed with that site layout.
<kwwii> yeah, I thought so too
<lapo> eheh...what a name :-)
<troy_s> it has soooooo much streamlined the
<troy_s> feel
<troy_s> and the look matches the simplicity so well.
<kwwii> yepp
<kwwii> it really is an improvement
<lapo> yeah, the layout is quite sweet
<troy_s> slick as hell.
<troy_s> the colours are probably a few too many for my tastes on the icons, but on the whole bloody brilliant.
<lapo> the only appoint I have it that they should have given more visibility to the arrows in the navigation bar
<lapo> barelly noticiable
<troy_s> bah
<troy_s> most people have normal sight (86% approximately iirc)
<troy_s> seems like a reasonable design decision.
<kwwii> and the simple 2d design in the middle makes them discernable
<troy_s> i love it really
<troy_s> it is so simple
<troy_s> love in comparison to the last incarnation or the newer ubuntu site.
<lapo> yeah minimalism as its best
<troy_s> wow
<troy_s> there is a place for visuals for each package
<troy_s> how slick is that?
<kwwii> now you know which one we intend to make money with :p
<lapo> yeah, really cool
<lapo> eheh
<troy_s> kwwii sorry for not checking earlier.
<troy_s> i probably should have confirmed that you were an admin
<troy_s> i think you are but let me look
<kwwii> troy_s: no big deal
<troy_s> nope you aren't...
<troy_s> let me fix that.
<kwwii> I think we all understand that a person can be very busy ;-)
<troy_s> some more than others...
<troy_s> i suppose it depends on your bloody career.
<kwwii> hehe, yeah
<troy_s> kwwii design issue... looking for how to bump you
<troy_s> hold on.
<kwwii> the biggest bug I have found until now is that the small team logos are 14x14
<kwwii> I really wonder who in the hell thought up using 14x14
<kwwii> it is like picking a random pixel size out of your butt
<troy_s> ok its cranking now
<troy_s> yeah 14 by 14 is ... gumma
<troy_s> 48x48
<troy_s> seems reasonable.
<kwwii> well, if nothing else, at least 16x16...factor of two so scalable from bigger icons, and parts of existing 16x16 icons could be used
<lapo> kwwii: uhm 22x22 come to mind :-)
<troy_s> 16x16 is bloody stink too.
<troy_s> wtf can you expect to communicate in less than 400 pixels?
<troy_s> focus groups come to mind...
<kwwii> lapo: yeah, I was just going to say that
<lapo> eheh
<kwwii> lapo: as involved as I am in kde, I still get in arguments about the 22x22 icons
<lapo> kwwii: do you know why 22x22 was choosen in the beginning?
<troy_s> because the idiot who made the decision was working on a 640x480 monitor with magnifying glasses?
<kwwii> lapo: yes, it was decided by tackat (torsten rahn, the guy who made the first hicolor icons)
<lapo> but why not 24x24?
<kwwii> at the time he had a good reason (ask him and he'll go into an explanation for an hour)
<troy_s> maybe he was designing for modex -- 320x240
<kwwii> but in the meantime it is silly
<troy_s> meantime?  lol
<troy_s> where is moore's law when it comes to technological advancement?
<troy_s> even disposable razor blades appear to follow moore's law lol
<kwwii> hehe...good one
<lapo> believe that 2 lines of pixels make a lot of difference, I happen to draw some gtk-stock icon (24x24) and he canvas felt huge respect what I'm used to (22x22 as in tango) :-)
<troy_s> kwwii so any news coming down the pipe?
<kwwii> troy_s: nothing much in the last days
<kwwii> seems the "he who is in charge" is quite busy
<troy_s> "he who's name shall not be spoken"
<lapo> eheh
<kwwii> *exactly*
<troy_s> yes he is busy, but does he have any directionality for feis+1?
<troy_s> or is it going to be 'lets muddle the tan again'
<lapo> ugh
<kwwii> nope, I have spoken to several people about starting the planning sometime next week
<troy_s> canonical players?
<kwwii> dude, if I am still involved in this we are starting next week and working on a real system this time
<troy_s> lol
<lapo> "he's who's name shall not be spoken" should listen to his artistic dictator 'cause probably his divine eye is not very artistic
<kwwii> I hope/think that things will start to go in the right direction soon
<troy_s> he has no artistic director and i, once again, strongly suggest that no one of any credit would take that position with the micromanaging hell.
<troy_s> the folks with the credits simply won't stand for it.
<kwwii> true
<troy_s> kwwii that reminds me
<troy_s> any flow on media center?
<kwwii> but if we start to bang our heads against the right wall, perhaps we can slowly break it down
<troy_s> the icon is naff as piss for launchpad
<kwwii> troy_s: not too much yet
<troy_s> just noticed it.
<kwwii> now you know why I mentioned it :-)
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> lol
<kwwii> I mean, we are supposed to be the art team :-)
<lapo> I don't care who wwill be the artistic dictator, I just hope that to have sometone with an artistical eye to fight with
<lapo> :-)
<troy_s> kwwii it was bersace
<troy_s> and quite frankly, at the time, no one was doing anything so i figured it was at least
<troy_s> a good idea to support those that had the courage to do _anything_
<troy_s> lapo well that's subjective as hell... it is going to be a damn tough position to fill.
<kwwii> troy_s: definitely
<kwwii> bersace has been a great help for a non-artist
<troy_s> kwwii although at peak, we had some very talented folks poke out of the woodwork
<troy_s> hell... i was shocked at some of the works.
<lapo> troy_s: sure, tastes apart at least one who can notice if something is a good work or a bad one at least tecnically speaking
<kwwii> I really miss Who
<lapo> troy_s: which is not the case for Him
<troy_s> Who, Mikkel, etc.
<troy_s> VERY good work.
<troy_s> I have been working with frank on a few things and that boy is darn bright too.
<troy_s> There are a _lot_ of solid creators out there.
<troy_s> the trick is harnessing the power, and that is where the value of worldwide design could shine.
<kwwii> frank is really good at scoping out new territory
<troy_s> Frank is bloody brilliant really.
<troy_s> The guy has a wonderful collection of greymatter in his skull.
<troy_s> and he has done a great deal of research
<troy_s> which is completely useful.
<kwwii>  very true
<troy_s> who is damn gifted too... i suppose that is why he is becoming an engineer at one of the most prestigious institutions in the world.
<troy_s> still has some pretty damn good insights into things though, when i find the time to email him. lol.
<troy_s> What I would like to see is the ability of the new crop of folks who have since signed up for the team...
<kwwii> hehe, I got my degree from Washington University but never learned a thing about artwork there :p
<kwwii> troy_s: yeah, me too
<kwwii> I think 90% are hangers-on
<troy_s> considering the visibility, 249 people probably represents perhaps 3% of the possible interests.
<troy_s> kwwii I have a little more faith than that...
<kwwii> which is good too, but doesn't necessarily help the real artwork
<kwwii> I think people join up to be able to give their opinions
<troy_s> kwwii I think plenty of them are capable if not perhaps in execution, perhaps in conception.
<kwwii> that might be the case as well
<troy_s> well again, you are faced with people who might not want to help the 'real' artwork.
<troy_s> like talented folks such as coz_ etc.
<troy_s> Let's face it, the current design pattern isn't even a grade 7 art test such as 'arrange these five pennies on the page into something that communicates 'chaos''
<troy_s> have you seen any of coz's work kwwii ?
<kwwii> troy_s: nope
<kwwii> but I remember his nick
<troy_s> i know he is trained, but i don't know whether or not it is a diploma or a formal degree...
<troy_s> quite a skilled painter
<troy_s> (and of course outspoken as I would expect any artist to be.)
<kwwii> hehe, yeah
<troy_s> kwwii by the way, you are now admin
<troy_s> kwwii so work over the hackergotchi
<kwwii> troy_s: cool, I will see what I can do tomorrow
<kwwii> time for sleep here
<kwwii> my son has two weeks vacation from school so my days are very busy
<troy_s> aight
<troy_s> get some rest
<kwwii> working and babysitting
<troy_s> erm
<troy_s> before you go
<troy_s> did you manage to summon anyone to the summit in artwork land?
<troy_s> i hope you managed to pull that off.
<troy_s> it would be nice to see a few people gaining some traction
<kwwii> not this time around, I didn't know what was happening until it was too late
<troy_s> Well that stinks
<kwwii> I was kinda pissed that we didn't get the chance
<troy_s> did sabdfl extend any offerings to anyone?
<kwwii> nope
<troy_s> I am pretty sure he would try ...
<kwwii> not that I know of
<troy_s> Hrm...
<kwwii> perhaps I am wrong though
<troy_s> Well that's too bad.
<troy_s> Another indication as to priorities.
<kwwii> he has been very busy and I have had little contact in the last few weeks
<troy_s> You would think that a guy who has the world by the balls would have a little more innovation in his soul.
<kwwii> I plan on having a long talk at the summit about this thouch
<kwwii> though
<kwwii> I think he is simply too busy
<troy_s> I mean, let's face reality here -- the guy is damn brilliant and completely independent at this point in his life.
<lapo> blasphemy! :-)
<troy_s> He could _so_ stick a boot up Apple and MS's ass.
<troy_s> blasphemy?
<kwwii> well, he made his money on tech work, not art work...probably trying to follow that recipe
<lapo> <troy_s> I mean, let's face reality here -- the guy is damn brilliant and completely independent at this point in his life.
<troy_s> kwwii Yes but he is _damn_ smart, _damn_ independent...
<kwwii> definitely
<troy_s> lapo -- you disagree with either of those two statements?
<kwwii> again, I think he simply needs someone to trust in this matter
<lapo> troy_s: nope, check the smiley at the end
<kwwii> anyway...I am passing out
<troy_s> ah
<troy_s> sorry
<kwwii> see you all tomorrow
<lapo> np, just kidding
<lapo> is that the general communty (at least ubuntu's) adoration for mark sometime bugs me
<lapo> he probably doesn't apraciate it as well
<troy_s> lapo -- a bright guy shouldn't appreciate the idolatry -- I agree however, that it is largely useless.
<troy_s> lapo -- that said, even though I completely disagree with his design direction and perhaps his underlying aesthetic
<troy_s> lapo -- I think he is a damn brilliant guy and way ahead of his time regarding Free Software.
<lapo> yeah, that's for sure
<troy_s> further still, he has put his money where his mouth is and, like it or not,
<troy_s> really put Free Software into the mainstream
<lapo> yeah that's true as well
<troy_s> where the true stars such as yourself, andreasn, jimmac, etc can have their work seen.
<troy_s> And _that_ is a positive step in the right direction.
<troy_s> Hell... linux isn't the end all...
<troy_s> Free Software is.
<lapo> I'm not really a star
<troy_s> Given the chance to innovate, it might be nice to see what everyone can do.
<troy_s> Erm...
<troy_s> Let me rephrase then
<troy_s> "One of the teeny little cogs in the great big machine." ;)
<lapo> yeah, really really tiny tho :-)
<troy_s> Lol
<troy_s> In the end, it is rather reflective of the world I suppose...
<troy_s> Just another faceless idiot on the landscape of six billion.
<troy_s> ;)
<lapo> anyway he his a genius, and the community adoration is even positive, but nobody seems to want to et in contrast with him
<lapo> his opinions are law usually
<troy_s> No, and I fundamentally disagree with that.
<troy_s> I actually completely respect the fact that his thoughts are law.
<troy_s> And in the end, that is probably largely why Ubuntu has been so damn successful.
<troy_s> So I completely respect that approach and I can appreciate his 'covetry' of his 'baby'
<troy_s> That said, we, as parents, must all let our children grow up at some point.  This generally requires them to dress themselves :)
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> I would also suggest that the community is to blame in this regard, as the formal frameworks have yet to be implemented for art and design.
<troy_s> Code developed cvs, svn, etc.  Where are our parallels for group artistic design development?
<lapo> don't misunderstand me, I believe there's the need of somebody who make decisions (see debian), but in the field he doesn't know he should left the decisions to others, you know art for example :-)
<troy_s> etc.
<lapo> yeah, it's mostly a community fault, not his
<troy_s> lapo: I think that takes time and trust.  Worse, I think that when you are discussing design, you must _clearly_ consider your audience... something Ubuntu refuses to do as it is taboo.
<lapo> yeah, very true
<troy_s> As soon as you say that you are trying to communicate with XXX or YYY you immediately 'exclude' ZZZ and that is distasteful.
<troy_s> That said, the unwritten rules of design are also speaking mammoth quantities to those 'mainstream' types who understand the language that commercial design has laid out.
<troy_s> For example, the rather uncommunicative nature of Ubuntu in its current nature won't do much to 'draw' in people to the thinking.
<troy_s> Apple's design speaks, which is why it is successful.
<troy_s> So does say, McDonalds
<troy_s> Nike.
<troy_s> Etc.
<lapo> yeah, that's really the point
<troy_s> All _standout_ design speaks through its implementation.
<troy_s> We in Free Software are perhaps either A) completely not used to thinking this way or more likely B) worried that it will exclude someone.
<troy_s> In reality, all things do.
<troy_s> You are colour blind aren't you Lapo?
<lapo> but ubuntu says it's want to be easy for end users so it really want (at least) to have an audience
<troy_s> That is a fallacy
<lapo> troy_s: deutheranope I believe
<troy_s> Completely and utterly
<troy_s> It is like saying 'I would like to say 'hello' to the entire world'
<troy_s> It is a Utopian fallacy.
<troy_s> Lapo -- how many instances of very good accoladed design have you been exposed to that don't 'work' for you with your sight issues?
<troy_s> See my point?
<lapo> yeah sure
<lapo> I completelly agree with you
<troy_s> It's simply a utopian fallacy to try and please everyone.
<troy_s> And we all know the old addages about that.
<troy_s> Not to mention that of the say, 100 or so art / design reference works that line my shelf, the most consistent underlying 'do this' instruction in _every_ one, is "figure out your audience"
<troy_s> I would love to see Ubuntu have a beautiful presentation that works for say, someone who uses a strictly touch based visual system (whatever the hell that would be -- ideas?)
<troy_s> And the only way we are going to get there is to perhaps suggest that everyone's needs are going to be different.
<lapo> yeah, but what I'm saying is that ubuntu has it's audience, but the choices made are not in that direction sometimes
<troy_s> _A_B_S_O_ lutely
<lapo> 'cause as you are saying it want to be generalized
<troy_s> And yet it seeks to be populart
<troy_s> erm
<lapo> but that's a fault of design by community
<troy_s> popular
<troy_s> You think so?
<troy_s> I can state beyond a shadow of a doubt that Ubuntu's design woes
<lapo> because everybody can have his voice heard and everybody has a different opinion
<troy_s> have _nothing_ to do with community
<troy_s> Yes.
<troy_s> But let's try a little mental exercise...
<troy_s> If you and I were going to sit down and attempt to say
<troy_s> design a user interface for someone with your visual sense
<lapo> you know you have to deal with a community and you have to maintain it alive, you cannot make huge parts of it unhappy or it won't work
<troy_s> We would probably have to have a pretty distinct set of design critera, yes?
<lapo> and small vocal group can influence the community a lot
<troy_s> completely agree
<troy_s> squeeky wheels
<troy_s> :)
<lapo> eheh
<troy_s> In our case though, it is largely a lack of knowledge and fear.
<lapo> but that's how it works in oss most of the time
<troy_s> Yes.
<lapo> you start nicelly and you end up debian :-)
<troy_s> And probably why the Free Software art and design field isn't exactly being picked ripely for artistic talent every day :)
<troy_s> I think democracy doesn't work for implementation of design
<troy_s> but again, if we say
<troy_s> had a clear set of design critera --
<lapo> yeah
<troy_s> such as designing for people with complete colour blindness for example
<troy_s> we have already alleviated 99% of the democracy
<lapo> I think we had a discussion in dapper time about it and you were thinking the opposite, some time in the oss world make you change your mainf eh :-))
<troy_s> 'this does not work as the palette is busted for our audience'
<lapo> yeah, sure
<troy_s> lapo: No, I think I still largely believe that the Free Software community _SHOULD_ be able to achieve art and design that is far superior to the close house mentality.
<lapo> troy_s: yeah with strong and widelly accepted guidelines
<troy_s> That said, I completely disagree with not having a well developed audience
<troy_s> etc.
<lapo> troy_s: and this is way I'm all for tango :-)
<troy_s> accepted or not -- guidelines. :)
<troy_s> well even tango's err on the side of loose
<lapo> troy_s: not accepted = no community :-)
<troy_s> but yes, one could attribute some of its success to guidelines
<troy_s> look at the sixteen gigs of osx or vista design guidelines
<troy_s> ;)
<troy_s> designer's bibles are commonplace _everywhere_
<lapo> troy_s: sure, but if you have picky bastards sitting on the official repo (read me and jimmac for example) it will work :-)
<troy_s> the problem in foss is that either you decide to 'include everyone' or suffer at the hands of appearing as some sort of brutal dictator who doesn't care.
<troy_s> i agree...
<lapo> troy_s: maybe
<troy_s> it would be nice if more of you buggers would document your experiences and such
<troy_s> ;)
<troy_s> the paper trails are so critical to moving forwards -- building on successes and failures etc.
<lapo> troy_s: my english is too lousy to document something :-)
<troy_s> for example
<troy_s> Shuttle has avoided 'human body parts' thanks to the earlier debacle with the photos
<troy_s> Rather like shooting the baby out with the bathwater.
<troy_s> As opposed to looking to execution, the entire realm got thrown out.
<troy_s> Which is very much too bad.
<troy_s> (from an artwork / design standpoint)
<lapo> true
<lapo> I liked the photos tho :-)
<troy_s> exactly
<troy_s> _exactly_
<troy_s> i was discussing with who that the wallpapers from warty and hoary
<troy_s> are about 1000000 times better than what we have had since
<lapo> yeah
<troy_s> (a little mystical element -- magical? - etc.)
<troy_s> i think that really works well for Ubuntu -- communicate that mystical / magical connotation
<troy_s> etc.
<lapo> artistically speaking warty was a lot better then all the reast imho
<troy_s> Now we have erred into what could be summarized as a bloody gradient.
<troy_s> With about as much communication as a middle grey wall.
<troy_s> lapo:  Completely agree.
<troy_s> they at least 'spoke'
<lapo> yeah
<lapo> it communicated something
<lapo> the rest in my picky eyes messy
<troy_s> Hell... people who cite apple seem to fail to notice all of the 'behind the scenes' design brainstorming they are doing.
<lapo> yeah
<lapo> usaility and design first always
<troy_s> the rest have progressively learnt to communicate nothing because that yields the least amount of 'that sucks'
<troy_s> not realizing that the 'that sucks' also tends to generate people who 'I LOVE IT'
<troy_s> generate SOME feeling
<lapo> troy_s: and people who cite apple usually refers to osx while os8 for example was a better user experience (crashes apart :-))
<troy_s> not completely 'meh'
<lapo> very true
<troy_s> lapo: The one thing that I will say for Apple (not a fan here) is that their designers are damn well trained, damn well educated, and damn well astute to contemporary design OUTSIDE of bloody computing.
<troy_s> and _that_ is the sole feature that keeps them on edge.
<lapo> yeah
<troy_s> they don't look to what vista is doing... nor open source... etc... they look to all the other areas of contemporary art and design.
<troy_s> as should _any_ decent artist / designer.
<lapo> they always had slower and more expensive hardware :-)
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> and yet their visual stylings have generated legions of fans.
<lapo> yeah, because they care about design and are not afraid to innovate
<troy_s> note how visually they have gone from sharper edges to rounded edges (all on par with contemporary design trends) etc...
<troy_s> probably LONG before 'mainstream' computing went there
<lapo> in oss we care too much about what windows users expect
<troy_s> all they really do is follow the trends OUTSIDE of computing.
<troy_s> nothing brilliant, aside from being brilliantly observant.
<lapo> sure, but it is The Right Thing To Do :-)
<troy_s> lapo if only that were the case
<lapo> beauce is what the use want
<troy_s> lapo -- no one seems to be able to say who the hell a given design is for.
<troy_s> i have the most respect for the high contrast / etc themes
<troy_s> as they clearly state their audience
<troy_s> and clearly steer their design towards them
<troy_s> and _that_ is far superior design
<lapo> good point
<troy_s> it 'works'
<troy_s> it is like all the silly folks who say global irrationalities like 'red makes you angry'
<troy_s> gee... ever see what colour a japanese bridal gown is?
<lapo> the problem in oss is that when there design at all it's related to a single project or a bunch of them
<troy_s> all cultural based stuff...
<troy_s> lapo -- well i think it is wise for default gnome and default kde to be 'middle grey' in presentation -- they are our backbones -- the 'standards'
<troy_s> but when you are a distribution, you are 'choosing' how to package something -- sometimes quite literally.
<troy_s> and therefore, it would make logical sense, to simply acknowledge that say,
<troy_s> Ubuntu for example, is aimed at the 'inexperienced' free software user.
<troy_s> So why not extend that into more of a profile?
<troy_s> Extend the design pattern to ambody that
<troy_s> s/ambody/embody
<lapo> that's what really should be done
<troy_s> Evaluate all of our design directions based on this audience
<troy_s> the clearly stated default design audience
<troy_s> then you can work on achieving that 'must have' effect in your design
<troy_s> do some brainstorming on what is 'sheik' if you are trying to be 'sheik' for example
<troy_s> The _one_ weakness that Ubuntu simply isn't capitalizing on is the attraction via art design.
<lapo> the problem is that it doesn't seem to be the most winning approach considering windows marketshare though :-/
<troy_s> well lets' see...
<troy_s> in your eyes
<troy_s> what does free software offer in terms of 'value
<troy_s> that Apple and MS don't
<troy_s> and in some cases perhaps, _can't_
<troy_s> Ideas?
<lapo> uhm
<lapo> I think mostly flexibility
<troy_s> Certainly...
<troy_s> That is a good one too... you can customize your computing experience to cater to your needs.
<troy_s> I suppose one could argue that Free Software is ethically superior in many respects.
<lapo> for sure
<troy_s> (more democratic in potential, less 'locked' (ala drm etc))
<troy_s> More 'natural'?  The "Divine Creation" versus "Evolution" model that has been cited.
<troy_s> (linux kernel evolution would probably be exemplary in this regard for not needing to maintain legacy API functionality)
<lapo> but most of the people will not understand the drm problem until it will start byting them and then will be too late
<troy_s> Yes, but don't you think that if we managed to encapsulate that strength
<troy_s> into a design pattern
<troy_s> and utilize it in our marketing
<troy_s> that it would be a significant 'must have' article?
<troy_s> Execution of course would be the difficult part (avoid being too preachy, etc.)
<troy_s> but ... theoretically I firmly believe it could 'work'.
<lapo> uhm...not sure because you couldnt et a consensum from the community
<troy_s> In what regard?
<lapo> for example on the message
<lapo> you want the design to give
<troy_s> Yes, but in many respects
<lapo> you always have to make everybody happy
<troy_s> Tango doesn't rely on consensus does it?
<troy_s> So it _can_ be done ;)
<troy_s> You admitted yourself that Lapo and Jimmac are the 'gatekeepers'
<troy_s> ;)
<lapo> or better you don't want to make somebody unhappy :-)
<troy_s> That happens anyways!
<troy_s> :)
<troy_s> For example, sabdfl doesn't like Tango
<lapo> eheh
<troy_s> hell... he is just a percentage
<troy_s> isn't he
<lapo> that's one problem :-)
<troy_s> Some LOVE tango
<troy_s> Some HATE tango
<troy_s> that's life
<troy_s> The more 'middle groundy' you take something, the less people care either way.
<troy_s> (which is I suppose where Ubuntu has found its 'comfort' zone)
<lapo> so you cannot make strong design decistion :-)
<troy_s> automated error REPORTING PLEASE
<troy_s> grr
<troy_s> ;)
<lapo> eheh
<troy_s> anyways lapo, it has been an awsome chat -- i really must shower as I stink
<troy_s> lol
<lapo> eheh
<troy_s> All of this sort of stuff should really be discussed on the list
<troy_s> I just wish it would happen.
<lapo> yeah, I hope it won't be a flamewar :-)
<lapo> anyway better to get some sleep, thanks for the nice chat, g'nite
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-artwork.log
<lapo> hi
<andreasn> hey
<andreasn> lapo: are you registered on freenode, I need to show you a thing
<lapo> yes I am
<lapo> or at least I think I am :-)
<lapo> yes I am registered, I checked out
<kwwii_> man, 10+ years linux graphics experience and I have never even heard of .rle files
<kwwii_> nor can gimp open them
<elkbuntu> what app are they supposedly for/from?
<lapo> kwwii_: I think rle is the windows bitmap compression
<lapo> kwwii_: are you sure it's not just a bitmap?
<kwwii_> lapo: that would explain why I've never heard of it
<elkbuntu> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Run-length_encoding
<kwwii_> elkbuntu: it is for grub (but only a back up file for really funky situations)
<elkbuntu> kwwii_, ah...
<elkbuntu> "Run-length encoding is used in fax machines (combined with other techniques into Modified Huffman coding). It is relatively efficient because most faxed documents are mostly white space, with occasional interruptions of black."
<kwwii_> well, pcx does the same
<kwwii_> anyway...
<elkbuntu> yeah.. have fun... im off to try sleep off an ear infection
<kwwii_> elkbuntu: ouch, get well soon
<elkbuntu> kwwii, well i sort of hope so too... since i cant imagine a plane flight to spain is going to be terribly pleasant with a sore ear
<kwwii> elkbuntu: it would be pure hell, trust me...been there, done that
<kwwii> lapo: what do you do for a living? study? work?
* elkbuntu comforts kwwii
<elkbuntu> the infection alone is bad enough, without something else irritating it
<kwwii> no doubt
<elkbuntu> anyway... zzzzzzzZZZZzzzzZZZ
<kwwii> lapo: btw. I added the applications-graphic icon from the tangerine svg (the one with the tube in it) to Human, since Tangerine uses the brush alone
<lapo> kwwii: I'm an IT guy
<kwwii> lapo: cool, I was just thinking that it might have been nice to invite you to the UDS in Spain to discuss artwork
<lapo> kwwii: when it will be?
<lapo> and where, you know spain is a bit vague :-)
<kwwii> may 6-13th or so
<kwwii> in seville
<kwwii> I have to talk to those in charge first though - it's quite late now
<kwwii> I kinda missed this stuff this time around as I am new at this job :-)
<lapo> kwwii: I don't need any financing, not a problem, If work permit I'll see if I can get there
<kwwii> lapo: that would be *excellent*
<kwwii> we are trying to set up a meeting to discuss artwork planning and execution for all the derivs
<kwwii> probably sometime later in the week
<lapo> kwwii: If I can get there it will be around the weekend
<kwwii> lapo: cool, let's keep in touch concerning this
<lapo> something like 12th-13th if I can find the right flyghts
<lapo> yeah, sure
<kwwii> I think that the 12th is the last day
<kwwii> I'll be arriving on the 8th (my parents are in town until then)
* kwwii is off for lunch now....bbl
<ferronica> hi room
<ferronica> any one here using Beryl ?
<bersace> Hi all
<bersace> seems that HumanList is pretty like finished :)
<kwwii> ;-)
<bersace> the bug reporter (fingerprint) is happy
<bersace> thx kwwii
<kwwii>  np, thanks go to you ;-)
<lapo> hi
<lapo> kwwii: ping
<kwwii> lapo: pong
<lapo> kwwii: I'm on some stuff for tango-common, still in time to commit?
<kwwii> lapo: yepp
<kwwii> tomorrow midday is about the last chance though
<lapo> can you commit I could do it as well, but I wouldn't like to fsck everything up so near the freeze, you know :-)
<lapo> uhm...and I get connection time out when I try to branch the tango-common repo :-/
<kwwii> sure
<kwwii> just let me know what to commit and where
<andreasn> lapo: quite the work monster, eh? :)
<kwwii> lapo: I'mm checking tango-common out now, can you send me your changes per email or such?
<lapo> sure
<kwwii> lapo: did you see https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/103030
<kwwii> ?
<ubotu> Malone bug 103030 in tangerine-icon-theme "Gaim 'view log' icon from Tangerine theme is ridiculously huge" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
<lapo> kwwii: yes, it's a gaim icon abuse bug
<kwwii> so is it a gaim problem or a problem with an icon?
<kwwii> or is the guy just being abusive :-)
<lapo> kwwii: it uses gtk-dnd-multiple for the logs and the new gtk stock provide that icon only in 32x32
<lapo> kwwii: and anyway the icon should be scaled, do I'd say it's definitelly a gaim bug
<kwwii> gotcha..I'll ping seb about that, see what we can do
<kwwii> hrm, he is gone for the day, I'll ask him tomorrow
<lapo> kwwii: make it use a the text mimetype icon is probably the fastest solution albeit ugly :-)
<kwwii> lapo: right (and good idea for a quick fix)
<lapo> ok, gdm-setup done, anyone with a nice scim icon?
<lapo> c'mon andreasn rise your hand :-)
<alefteris> hi all! is there any place i can find the new tango gtk stoke icons?
<andreasn> lapo: huh?
<andreasn> oh, a icon for scim?
<andreasn> I still haven't figured out what the app do :/
<andreasn> alefteris: hi there, check out gnome-icon-theme-extras in gnome svn
<andreasn> alefteris: we're working on getting them into gtk+ right now
<alefteris> andreasn, thanks
<kwwii> alefteris: die sind auch im Feisty Tangerine
<kwwii> erm
<kwwii> german, sorry
<kwwii> they are also in Feisty Tangerine
<kwwii> so if you have a feisty system just update :-)
<kwwii> if I'm speaking german without knowing it, it is time for bed
<kwwii> night all
<andreasn> night kwwii!
<kwwii> lapo: send me your changes whenever you are ready
<kwwii> I'll see that they are included tomorrow morning
<andreasn> lapo: I can fix you a identical to the one that's currently there and send it to you super-early tomorrow
<andreasn> my gf wants me to go to bed
<andreasn> night all!
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-04-05
<kwwii> lapo: ping?
<kwwii> lapo: the email you sent last night had no attachment
<andreasn> lapo: still need that scim icon?
<kwwii> hi andreasn ;-)
<andreasn> heya
<thotz> Who's responsible for the boot screen in the live-cd. there's a little bug. Which ubuntu package is this? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/102738/ ? thanks in advance!
<ubotu> Malone bug 102738 in Ubuntu "Feisty Boot Screen Error" [Undecided,Confirmed] 
<thotz> normal feisty boot screen looks ok. i'm not sure what causes this problem.
<yharrow> hey guys
<ferronica> hi room
<yharrow> hi
<yharrow> hows it going
<ferronica> can any one tell me how do print my photo in 4 x 6 size three or four photos in one A4  size paper
<ferronica> yharrow: do you have an idea?
<yharrow> hmm lemme see if I can figure it out
<ferronica> yharrow: oay
<ferronica> yharrow: ok
<ferronica> yharrow: ok
<ferronica> can any one tell me how do print my photo in 4 x 6 size three or four photos in one A4  size paper
<kwwii> ferronica: open them in gimp and put them all on a new document that is A4 (scaling the pics down as necessary
<yharrow> kwwii: sounds like a hack. any other optoins?
<kwwii> yharrow: to be honest, I only know that method
<kwwii> even in osx I would do it that way (although my printer has a utility which could do it for me)
<yharrow> kwwii: that must be it then, it has to be done with an application
<yharrow> kwwii: not a printer option
<kwwii> yharrow: yepp, I think so
<kwwii> as the printer alone is not smart enough to do things like this :-)
<kwwii> think, margins, rotation, etc.
<artnay> heya klepas
<troy_s> yharrow actually you can dump 4 sheets per page under settings in the print options.
<yharrow> troy_s: yeah I discovered that later and told them about it, apparently its too small fro them though :D
<troy_s> ???
<troy_s> how the hell is that?
<troy_s> i thought they wanted 4:1
<troy_s> strange
<kwwii> lapo: ping?
<yharrow> troy_s: they wanted the equivilant of a 3x4 picture to "fit in their picture album"
<kwwii> oh well, time for bed
<kwwii> night all
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-04-06
<nysosym> Hi there :)
<andreasn> lapo: ping
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-04-07
<Saied> hi all, i have problem with pngtobogl command
<Saied> the content of C source output file is "too many colors (256)"
<Saied> what can i do to solve this problem?
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-04-08
<kingkarlos> Evening people. Anybody had experience in using changing a GTK2 theme to use symbolic colors? eg '@bg_color' and 'shade(0.9, @fg_color)'
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-03-31
<kwwii> hrm, anyone here know how to set the xephyr size?
<kwwii> if anyone wants to test the new human theme package, here it is:
<kwwii> http://sinecera.de/human-icon-theme_0.26_all.deb
<savvas> 'lo, if I want to present a bittorrent icon, should I send it to the mailing list?
<andreasn> for Transmission?
<savvas> hold a sec
<savvas> http://savvas.radevic.com/previews/bittorrent-icon.svg
<savvas> I made one for deluge, for transmission and one "generic", I think I'm allowed to use the files that I mentioned in the svg as sources
<kwwii> savvas: yes, you can send that to the list for critic, ideas, etc
<kwwii> if you want it in the upstream gnome theme bug andreasn :p
<savvas> kwwii: the svg as it is ok right? with the sources and everything?
<savvas> *as it is, is ok?*
<andreasn> savvas: I thought all of them was using the same format, or don't they?
<andreasn> the .torrent file
<kwwii> savvas: the svg would be ok to send to the list but in the final icon theme you need them singular, without the extra text, etc
<savvas> andreasn: you mean mimetype? yes, all are the same application/x-extension-torrent from I can tell, but it's up to you to choose one :) Since edgy I haven't seen a bittorrent icon, I thought why not fiddle around with inkscape :)
<kwwii> and as andreasn says only one of them would be used for .torrent files
<kwwii> man, I cut off the tip of my finger on the weekend...makes it really hard to type
<savvas> kwwii: papercut?
<andreasn> kwwii: eek
<andreasn> how much of it?
<kwwii> savvas: no, I cut off a few millimeters of finger and fingernail with a knife
<andreasn> like several mm?
<savvas> true, fingers are one of the most "neuro-wired" when it comes to pain receptors :)
<kwwii> yepp
<kwwii> it *really* hurt
<andreasn> I bet it did
<savvas> look at it from this angle: you won't do it again, because you know it hurts :P
<kwwii> :-)
<andreasn> savvas: anyway, where were we? so, yes, anyway, I would go for the third one
<kwwii> the third one seems best as it is not applicaiton specific
<savvas> andreasn: ok, I'll make a separate svg for that one and zip it up, I remember people complaining in the mailing list about the size :\
<andreasn> ok
<savvas> andreasn: license cc-by-sa? I don't know about that globe svg
<andreasn> that is gpl
<savvas> darn, inkscape doesn't have it
<savvas> GPLv3 ?
<savvas> I just typed gpl
<andreasn> no, no gpl v2
<andreasn> err...just one no :)
<savvas> I can license mine as gplv3 ?
<savvas> I'm really not fond of all these license types, I get lost sometimes and waiting for a lawsuit :P
<andreasn> I can't remember if it's "gpl v2" or "gpl v2 or later"
<andreasn> probably says in the Copying file in gnome svn
<andreasn> http://svn.gnome.org/viewvc/gnome-icon-theme/trunk/COPYING?revision=2&view=markup
<andreasn> hm, seems like gpl v2 only
<savvas> ok gplv2 it is then
<savvas> ok sent
<mooboo1> today there were a new GDM theme in hardy
<mooboo1> and its ugly
<mooboo1> it looks too much white, like if the sun is shine on the monitor
<mooboo1> its annoying, and looks bad
<mooboo1> the old GDM theme looks much better
<mooboo1> actually, now when i look at it a second time, it doesnt look all that bad
<savvas> the second time was without the specially-coloured glasses? :p
<kwwii> hehe
<savvas> I didn't know internet explorer doesn't support svg
<savvas> kwwii: the svg I posted was inkscape svg, do you think it matters?
<savvas> i didn't save it as plain svg
<kwwii> savvas: no worries
<savvas> ok :)
<_MMA_> Today was new <InsertArtPieceHere> and its ugly. Ubuntu sux.
<troy_s> _MMA_: That's a tad on the invalidate all things side.
<_MMA_> troy_s: Im making fun of a earlier post.
<_MMA_> troy_s: Im making fun of a earlier post.
<troy_s> _MMA_: I know ;)
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-04-01
<BHSPitMonkey> haha
<BHSPitMonkey> I like the hardy incoming art submission for a wallpaper
<BHSPitMonkey> that's just the gutsy wallpaper desaturated
<BHSPitMonkey> priceless
<psyke83> kwwii, I noticed Daniel Sargeant has uploaded a color chooser version of Human-Murrine as well, will you be going with that version instead of mine?
<psyke83> kwwii, that theme still has hardcoded values and issues with Firefox, unfortunately
<kwwii> psyke83: actually, we will be going with ubuntulooks again
<psyke83> ok
<kwwii> I just removed murrine from the dependencies
<kwwii> and added your gtkrc for ubuntuloooks
<_MMA_> Boo.... Ubuntu suX0rz.
<kwwii> _MMA_: well, if you would have only worked a bit harder on it maybe we could have finally got ahead this time
<kwwii> :p
<_MMA_> No. The issue is management. "Higher-ups"
<_MMA_> Oh well.
<kwwii> actually, I agree that ubuntulooks still has nicer progress bars and scrollbars
<psyke83> kwwii, so we're not keeping the murrine theme as an alternative, even?
<kwwii> psyke83: we cannot keep it due to the size of the CD
<_MMA_> Really, Murrine the engine should be a recommend on ubuntu-desktop anyway.
<psyke83> ah that's fine, then... I was just confused to see someone else upload a different color chooser version to the bzr, it seems like duplicated effort
<kwwii> hehe
<_MMA_> psyke83: It's ok. Your work will be seen and is appreciated in Ubuntu Studio. :P
<psyke83> _MMA_, ;) it's not a prob, I was just wondering why... the old theme has issues with Firefox and so does the new one, it seems like a step back... but if it won't get used, who cares :P
<_MMA_> I'm just jabbin' at Ken. ;)
<psyke83> the toolbar seems to be missing a horizontal line below the buttons
<_MMA_> kwwii: http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Elegant+Blankon?content=78134&PHPSESSID=8dc2bb4f15bdd27deb50b2bb98a1f1ae
<_MMA_> Or, the unmodded theme screenshots: http://www.blankonlinux.or.id/screenshot.html
<kwwii> not bad, perhaps a bit too simple but very interesting
<kwwii> ok, so today I updated the human-icon-theme, human-theme, ubuntulooks, and ubuntu-artwork packages
<kwwii> so expect a couple of changes ;-)
<cody-somerville> \o/
<TomaszD> hi, is the welcome html page of Ubuntu part of ubuntu-artwork package?
<cody-somerville> no
<TomaszD> cody-somerville, where can I find the template for this page in lp?
<TomaszD> dpkg -S doesn't seem to associate the file with any package
<cody-somerville> ubuntu-doc I believe
<TomaszD> hmm
<TomaszD> cody-somerville, kubuntu-docs-index exists, but ubuntu-docs-index is missing
<TomaszD> :(
<cody-somerville> Ask in #ubuntu-doc
<TomaszD> cody-somerville, ok
<savvas> hm..
<savvas> I think my message didn't reach the ubuntu-art list
<savvas> hm it must be the attachment
<nothlit> are you subscribed?
<nothlit> otherwise kwwii has to go approve it as not spam or something i think
<savvas> i am, but i don't know what's the attachment limit
<nothlit> i would keep it under 7.6 megs i think
<savvas> kwwii: can you check emails sent by vicedar at gmail dot com yesterday?
<nothlit> theres like overhead, if you go over that it creeps over 10
<savvas> it was 13kb :(
<nothlit> that should be fine
<nothlit> people have sent full size png wallpapers before
<savvas> think I should resend?
<savvas> it was about a suggest of mine about the new bittorrent icon
<savvas> *suggestion
<savvas> I'll try once more
<savvas> 'ere we go :)
<savvas> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2008-April/005594.html
<savvas> :)
<kwwii> savvas: that should go in the gnome icon theme right?
<savvas> kwwii: well if the license and everything is right, I'd be honoured :)
<kwwii> savvas: andreasn would be the right person to talk to about including it upstream in the gnome icon theme
<kwwii> savvas: for hardy I will put it in our version of the gnome theme
<savvas> cool :)
<andreasn> savvas: was it you who filed that bug against gnome-icon-theme in gnome bugzilla?
<crimeboy> hi
<crimeboy> someone have a font sackers gothic light?
<crimeboy> or similar free
<andreasn> crimeboy: no, sorry
<troy_s> crimeboy: You have obviously checked out dafont and abstractfonts yes?
<crimeboy> troy_s: and all rest of internet
<troy_s> crimeboy: Use whatsmyfont to find a kin to it
<crimeboy> font.com have it
<crimeboy> but
<crimeboy> 29$ us
<troy_s> crimeboy: As I said, use whatsmyfont to find a font that is almost identical in the free capacity.
<troy_s> crimeboy: What is sackers offering over the thousands of other light gothics out there?
<crimeboy> is a font of a logo done
<crimeboy> but, thank u anyway
<troy_s> crimeboy: Did you try whatsmyfont?
<troy_s> crimeboy: As I said, in many instances, it will pull up several in the same class / breed.
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-04-02
<_MMA_> Hey. Did Usplash have an issue where the pulse part stayed for a min once the normal progressbar started? ie: it knocks back and forth for a sec the normal left to right starts but a part of the pulse stayed?
<_MMA_> gah
<_MMA_> Wrong window.
<DaMann> hey guys this is the first time ive been on the artwork channel, is the artwork team for designing anytype of art whether it is a background or a program?
<DaMann> or are their strict things that it is specialized in
<savvas> andreasn: here?
<andreasn> yes
<savvas> you got the two messages?
<andreasn> what messages?
<savvas>  /msg memoserv read all :)
<savvas> there are two bugzillas about the bittorrent icon
<andreasn> can you post the url:s?
<savvas> sure hold a sec
<savvas> of the launchpad bug or the gnome bug?
<andreasn> gnome bug
<savvas> the one connected to the bug report is http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=330235 - I filed a feature request a couple of days ago: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=525311
<ubotu> Gnome bug 330235 in general "several mimetypes have no special icon after upgrade" [Normal,Assigned]
<savvas> I think the mimetype problem has been resolved, so probably all that is left is to include the bittorrent icon
<andreasn> we currently only include the most common mimetype icons in gnome-icon-theme
<andreasn> such as packages, spreadsheets, documents, images etc.
<andreasn> we include the rest in gnome-icon-theme-extras
<andreasn> so I think it might fit better in that package
<savvas> torrents? :) I bet everyone has at least 4-5 torrents sitting in a folder
<savvas> ah, should I change the feature request to that one?
<andreasn> Rodney that replied to the bug is usually the expert in that area
<andreasn> could you reply with the mime type info?
<savvas> sure
<andreasn> how does a torrent-file work precisely, is it like a package?
<andreasn> I don't seem to have any around, I download distro images from time to time using torrent, but they get deleted when the download is done
<savvas> /home/forger/.local/share/mime/application/x-extension-torrent.xml
<savvas> /home/forger/.local/share/mime/packages/user-extension-torrent.xml
<savvas> /usr/share/mime/application/x-bittorrent.xml
<savvas> weird, the x-extension is probably a leftover?
<savvas> I honestly don't know how it works, all I know is that I can double click on it and deluge-torrent application opens
<andreasn> hm, there is a downloads icon in emblems already
<andreasn> maybe it would make sense to use that
<savvas> can I take a look at it?
<andreasn> right click on any file and go to the emblems tab
<savvas> the download emblem?
<savvas> hm.. that's good
<savvas> it's fine by me, as long as the .torrent is not naked :)
<kwwii> bersace: ping?
<kwwii> 13:28 < seb128> kwwii: bug #210538
<kwwii> 13:28 < ubotu> Launchpad bug 210538 in ubuntu-gdm-themes "gdm hangs after theme
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 210538 in ubuntu-gdm-themes "gdm hangs after theme upgrade and reboot" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/210538
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 210538 in ubuntu-gdm-themes "gdm hangs after theme upgrade and reboot" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/210538
<kwwii>                upgrade and reboot" [High,Confirmed]
<kwwii>                https://launchpad.net/bugs/210538
<kwwii> 13:29 < seb128> kwwii: the theme upgrade seems to break gdm for all the users
<kwwii>                 running it
<kwwii> 13:29 < seb128> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=742511 too
<kwwii> bersace: I will be submitting a new gdm theme today, so if you can fix the list theme I can include it
<savvas> there won't be a face browser included right?
<kwwii> savvas: as long as we fix that bug yes there will be
<kwwii> but it is not the default setting
<savvas> cool :)
<savvas> hm.. .iso have no icon either
<savvas> hah, /home/forger/.local/share/mime/application/x-extension-iso.xml - I should really stop double clicking on files :)
<_MMA_> andreasn: I found a throbber in a set you guys might like. I'm sorry, what was your email again?
<andreasn> andreas at andreasn dot se
<_MMA_> k
<_MMA_> kwwii: Which bits of this links file did I need again?
<kwwii> _MMA_: you just need to link the devices/gnome-dev-* to the right media-* or drive-* names
<kwwii> in your case it is only a few files
<kwwii> so 90% of that links file I sent is not needed
<_MMA_> kwwii: Funny. I just added a bunch of those for disk drives. :P
<kwwii> ;-)
<kwwii> bersace: I will wait for any changes to HumanList before uploading a new gdm theme
<kwwii> bersace: but if something doesn't come today I am afraid that I will have to remove the list theme
<_MMA_> andreasn: Damn. Scratch that. There's no .svg in this set and just 1 32x32px .png. Looks like the Mac spinning circle. Dont know if its best to copy that now that I think about it.
<andreasn> oh, if it's the mac spinner it's probably best to avoid it
<andreasn> for copyright reasons
<bersace> kwwii: hi
<bersace> i'm having problem with HumanList
<bersace> gdm doesn't stop loading
<bersace> just the waiting cursor :(
<kwwii> exactly
<kwwii> I hoped that you would know how to fix it :-)
<bersace> hm
<bersace> i'm fucked, i bzr merge rather than bzr pull
<bersace> :(
<bersace> local copy works
<bersace> but debs don't
<kwwii> hrm...freaky
<_MMA_> Then something is most likely different.
<kwwii> can you take everything in your local copy, tar it and send it to me?
<kwwii> I'll test it on my machine
<_MMA_> Ill take a look also.
<bersace> Ho god !
<bersace> gdmthemetester works only in current directory :(
<bersace> e.g. gdmthemetester console .
<bersace> how can this be possible ?!
<bersace> cd /usr/share/gdm/themes/HumanList && gdmthemetester console . works
<bersace> gdmthemetester console HumanList doesn't works
<kwwii> it works for me but it comes up fullscreen and I do not know how to reduce the size
<bersace> kwwii: i actually think this is not HumanList bug
<bersace> it worked until 1st April
<kwwii> bersace: hrm, freaky...not sure what to say
<kwwii> bersace: so does the theme work locally for you?
<bersace> kwwii: only in current directory
<bersace> i pushed the latest version
<bersace> well, nested gdm works
<bersace> gdmthemetester console /usr/share/gdm/themes/HumanList doesn't
<bersace> gdmthemetester console . works
 * bersace works on SANE/HAL
<DanaG> Hmm, I must say, I prefer the previous revision of the Hardy login screen -- the new one looks washed out and "pasty-faced" (or something like that).
<kwwii> DanaG: sabdfl wanted it that way
<kwwii> bersace: freaky
<DanaG> Reminds me of a person who'll sunburn easily.
<DanaG> Oh, and the Wiki doesn't have the recolored latest Heron wallpaper!
<DanaG> I want to get the Heron image from that, so I can make a case skin with it in the summer when I get a new laptop.
<kwwii> I'll have to post the svg when i get time
<DanaG> Is there a wiki entry for the GDM theme?
<kwwii> I didn't make one, no
<DanaG> Oh yeah, I updated my screenshot: www.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/screenshot-orange-nodoka.png
<DanaG> I like orange.
<DanaG> Dang, I just thought of the fruit.... and now I'm hungry.
<DanaG> Oh yeah, I installed some third-party icon themes that don't have previews in Gnome's Appearance Properties thingy.  How do I make it regenerate all icon previews?
<_MMA_> DanaG: I just delete things in .thumbnails.
<DanaG> Okay, now nothing has thumbnails.
<kwwii> well at least they are not the wrong/bad thumbnails :p
<DanaG> Mmmyeah, not very helpful, though.
<psyke83> kwwii, hi, the problem is that it is rendering the metacity border preview using @selected_bg_color, which is not accurate
<ethana2> Could someone here have a look at something I made in the GIMP for me?
<ethana2> It's a mockup
<ethana2> http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/4347/guimockuppb1.png
<ethana2> ..I've finally illustrated where I'm trying to go with this: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=521131
<ethana2> ubotu:   http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=521131
<ethana2> hmm, nevermind
 * ethana2 goes to jog
<ubotu> Gnome bug 521131 in general "Merge gnome panel and window decorator, reimplement standard window components and decorations as panel applets." [Enhancement,Unconfirmed]
<ethana2> oh hey, it works, it just takes forever ;)
<psyke83> kwwii, I emailled you an updated gtkrc file. There's still a problem with the preview for me, though, but it's a caching problem with the app. I created a new "test" user, logged in, and the Human preview was fine
<psyke83> I'm trying to find out exactly where this cache or setting is causing problems with my current account
<kwwii> psyke83: excellent, I appreciate the help
<psyke83> kwwii, try updating the gtkrc on your system and see if it updates the colour for you; perhaps something corrupt on my machine
<psyke83> np :)
<kwwii> psyke83: yeah, I'll do that once I have my mail sorted out
<kwwii> the ubuntu-art list just got 446 spam emails at once
<psyke83> kwwii, rm ~/.thumnails/* -r
<psyke83> sorry
<psyke83> rm ~/.thumbnails/* -r
<psyke83> that will regenerate the previews
<kwwii> I was thinking that it created a thumbnail or something like that
<psyke83> yep :)
<psyke83> the updated gtkrc is necessary as well, though
<kwwii> did you add a definition for the metacity window or such in the gtkrc?
<kwwii> my email app is busy filtering all the apm messages atm
<kwwii> s/apm/spam
<psyke83> kwwii, I changed the default @selected_bg_color and added a new variable, @selected_base_color, and matched the original Human theme with these new codes
<kwwii> hehe, cool...you seem to know your way around gtkrc very well
<psyke83> the original is a bit hacky, I was just replicating those hacks ;)
<ethana2> *sigh*
<ethana2> gnome
<psyke83> kwwii, I'm not happy with my mod, in fact, let me look over it again before you push anything
<kwwii> psyke83: ok, I'll wait until tomorrow afternoon to push anything
<kwwii> I am going to bed soon anyway :-)
<psyke83> cool
<kwwii> psyke83: yes! that fixed it
<psyke83> kwwii, the color picker doesn't work well anymore, though. I'll rework it properly and have it done by tomorrow
<psyke83> hmm it was easier than I expected, one sec
<kwwii> psyke83: ahhh, right I see that now
<kwwii> psyke83: how did you learn so much about gtkrc? you really know your stuff :-)
<psyke83> kwwii, I learned from comparing the ones available to me ;)
<psyke83> I sent the fix (it's just a one line modification)
<psyke83> don't forget to delete thumbnails again
<kwwii> psyke83: right, will do....thanks again, great work
<psyke83> no problem
<psyke83> kwwii, before you head off, I was curious... perhaps we can create a human-themes-extra and put in the murrine theme? It won't be associated with ubuntu-desktop or included on the cd... what do you think?
<kwwii> psyke83: yes, lots of people are asking for it so I think I will put it back in
<kwwii> and if I can remove the extra wallpaper I put it the cd space won't be an issue
<kwwii> I will include the clearlooks theme anyway since that is installed by default
<kwwii> and try to get murrine back in to the default selection
<psyke83> kwwii, if you do add my modified version, I think it has the same metacity preview bug. Will I send you a fixed version?
<kwwii> if nothing else it will be in an installable package
<kwwii> psyke83: if it is different than the last version you sent, please send it to me
<psyke83> I'll work up the fix and send it to you when I'm done
<psyke83> the Human theme should be fixed properly, anyway
<kwwii> yepp, the selected color look right
<kwwii> ok, I am off to bed...see you tomorrow
<kwwii> boah, someone is attacking the email server
<kwwii> another 100+ spams just came in
<kwwii> what a waste of time
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-04-03
<_MMA_> cody-somerville: Are you or any Xubuntu users getting hit by this GDM bug?
<cody-somerville> link?
<cody-somerville> _MMA_, ^^
<_MMA_> No link. Only some people are gettin it. Im still trying to diagnose. If you were seeing this, you would know exactly what Im talking about.
<cody-somerville> I still have pending updates
<cody-somerville> but I can't seem to dist-upgrade
<_MMA_> Ok
<_MMA_> cody-somerville: And we got rid of OO.o. :P
<cody-somerville> You can thank me in Prague ;p
<cody-somerville> [<davmor2> not that I've noticed and I'm running hardy on 3 machines
<_MMA_> So odd.
<kwwii> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm/+bug/210538
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 210538 in ubuntu-gdm-themes "gdm hangs after theme upgrade and reboot" [High,Confirmed]
<_MMA_> kwwii: That's not it for us.
<_MMA_> :(
<kwwii> ? you have a different bug?
<_MMA_> No clue. Since we don't have the "Commenting the gtkrc gtk_color_scheme =" part.
<kwwii> I am not sure if that is the real reason there is a bug to be honest
<kwwii> I think that this bug will still exist even after I changed that
<kwwii> as the same bug happens with your theme
<kwwii> btw, I pushed a few packages: ubuntu-gdm-theme, human-theme, human-icon-theme, and ubuntulooks
<psyke83> kwwii, hi, did you receive the update for Human-Murrine-Mod (just in case it's used)?
<kwwii> psyke83: yes, and it has been uploaded so you should see it coming down the pipe soon
<kwwii> it is back in the default selection
<kwwii> but not set as default
<kwwii> so everyone should be happy
<kwwii> :-)
<kwwii> thanks again for the great work
<psyke83> no problem, glad I could help :)
<kwwii> _MMA_: did you notice that in the login window selector you can select the standard ubuntu gdm theme but at the top pulldown also have the "with face browser" option selected?
<_MMA_> I do now.
<_MMA_> Hmm... Doesn't do anything. I bet its a switch for a theme.
<kwwii> freaky
<kwwii> I thought it would sort out the themes or such but it does not
<kwwii> I think that it sets something somewhere though
<_MMA_> ie: you have all the needed files in 1 theme and that setting switches it.
<kwwii> either that or it is useless
<kwwii> maybe that is part of the problems you were having
<_MMA_> kwwii: Im gonna look through the code and see if they can be combined.
<_MMA_> Hmm.... I notice users aren't shown in the Human face browsers but are in the happygnome-list one.
<_MMA_> kwwii: nm. After trying the happygnome one they are there in the Human one. So odd.
 * _MMA_ *hates* GDM.
<kwwii> lol
<kwwii> _MMA_: and gdm seems to hate you too :p
<SliverRedman> So wait, what?
<SliverRedman> nvrmnd
 * kwwii grabs a bite to eat
<psyke83> kwwii, just wondering; do you think we should enable animations in Human-Murrine, if we get a chance to push another update?
 * _MMA_ has had it enabled for 2 releases with no bug reports.
<kwwii> psyke83: sure, why not
<psyke83> kwwii, great, thanks
<psyke83> kwwii, what about the vertical menu bar? I like it, but it conflicts a bit with firefox's awesomebar, unfortunately
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-04-04
<DanaG> Who decided to change the GDM theme?
<DanaG> Oh, and is there now a wiki page about it?
<DanaG> And has the latest wallpaper been wiki'd?
<DanaG> http://troy-sobotka.blogspot.com/2008/03/hardy-heron-wallpaper-fela-kuti-botch.html
<afflux> morning. Is this the right place to ask why the murrine theme was removed?
<kwwii> afflux: yes it is
<kwwii> although first you might want to know that it is included in the default selection (just update your hardy system)
<afflux> huh
<afflux> I currently have no updates, but I have gnome-default theme (you know, the grey one) because I had human-murrine enabled and the ubuntu-artwork update took it away again
<kwwii> there was an update today which has it again
<afflux> ah, cool!
<afflux> okay, that's all I wanted to know, thank you!
<kwwii> np
<_MMA_> kwwii: Did you try that make file script?
<_MMA_> *makefile
<kwwii> _MMA_: no because it us much more than just the one script
<kwwii> I tried to run it and then I saw that there are lots of other files I needed to have
<kwwii> lots= a few
<_MMA_> Well you could always adapt it. Really does make things easy with large edits.
<kwwii> yeah, I would like to include it eventually, but yesterday I just wanted to get the package done :p
<kwwii> hehe, here is a good bug
<kwwii> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/211740
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 211740 in ubuntu-gdm-themes "Hardy: Ubuntu login screen art has brightnes increased" [Undecided,New]
<_MMA_> Oh FFS.
<_MMA_> kwwii: Oh. And our daily today has the friggin' GDM issue right off the bat.
<kwwii> I like quotes like this "which I've seen many people call the best of any Ubuntu release"
<kwwii> _MMA_: I am telling you, gdm hates you
<kwwii> just accept it and sacrifice a virgin to the gdm god
<_MMA_> Naa... I can't even laugh about it atm.
<kwwii> the wierd thing is that it is not clear what the problem is
<_MMA_> Well Im gonna remove the gtkrc from the GDM theme. That change should hit the next disk. If it doesnt clear up, it's *NOT* a themes gtkrc.
<_MMA_> But we'll see.
<kwwii> well, it could still be a problem with the one it gets from the desktop
<kwwii> I think it is some wierd bug in gdm itself, not the theme
<kwwii> what else have you changed in your theme since gutsy?
<_MMA_> Its not the desktop one either because that's a constant between the other GNOME themes as they don't have gtkrc's ant the issue would pop there as well.
<_MMA_> Not just with 1 or 2 themes.
<_MMA_> kwwii: Everything but the gtkrc.
<_MMA_> I'm really thinking its how GDM sets an alternative theme.
<_MMA_> Some odd combination of issues.
<DanaG> http://troy-sobotka.blogspot.com/2008/03/hardy-heron-wallpaper-fela-kuti-botch.html
<kwwii> _MMA_: yeah, I thikn it does have something to do with the theme changing mechanism
<kwwii> oh man
<kwwii> troy_s: give me a break
<kwwii> do you take negative pills?
<kwwii> I won't even get into it
<kwwii> wait a mounumental waste of time
<_MMA_> Just got sand in his... Well. You know. ;)
<kwwii> no, bitching and complaining and acting superior is easy, actually stepping up and doing something would just be too much - it's so easy to make an excuse
<troy_s> Waaaahhhhh
<troy_s> Cry me a fucking river.  It's a classic hack job.
<kwwii> troy_s: you should/could have mentioned this critic to me early and things would have been worked on
<kwwii> in fact, we can still change things although time is short
<troy_s> kwwii: I uh... tried.
<troy_s> kwwii: In fact, I believe I was quite vocal about it.
<kwwii> troy_s: when did you talk to me? this is the first I have heard of it
<troy_s> kwwii: As I was with the Gutsy choice.  I have always been straight up in those discussions.
<kwwii> in fact, I talked to you about gdm
<kwwii> I did not even know you had a blog until now
<kwwii> btw. all I am talking about here is the wallpaper and hardy art
<troy_s> kwwii:  Shuttleworth and GDM are what they are.  We have already been over that ground.
<kwwii> what does that have to do with your wallpaper comments?
<troy_s> kwwii: And besides, my shit is pure rubbish.  No one cares.  I just voice my opinion (as has been said here more than once).
<kwwii> it would have been really helpful to have known your ideas earlier
<troy_s> kwwii: Let me trace the log... hold on.
<troy_s> <kwwii> yeah, I need to edit the pic to remove the bloody neck and tweak the background a bit to be more monochromatic
<troy_s> <troy_s> kwwii: Oh fuck
<troy_s> <troy_s> kwwii: Like uh...
<troy_s> <troy_s> kwwii: Monochromatic is just plain naff.  I have no idea how to say that any clearer _again_.  Shuttlebutt's _really_ needs to get off that fucking monochromatic binging.
<troy_s> <troy_s> (its sad that we didn't get the forward on the whole thing to be able to actually do the pattern along paths to round out the whole image.  It would seem less 'lazy', but such is the nature of the last minute.)
<kwwii> yes, and I agreed with you
<troy_s> kwwii: I _do not_ know what to do.  I get email and try to listen to the new and fresh users.  That's all.
<troy_s> kwwii: Unfortunately our little clique still believes it knows better.
<kwwii> well, I do not log the channel so I cannot come up with anything I said....anyway
<troy_s> kwwii: I was straight up.  I think it was an absolutely idiotic decision (as you can see from the log).
<kwwii> I think that being positive and working towards a better future is the way to go, not just harshly criticizing the work of others without doing it directly to their face
<troy_s> kwwii: The biggest stumbling point is this hey throw the shit against the wall, wait for the arcane meeting to take place on a whim, then poof -- it happens.
<kwwii> and there will never be a case where everyone is totally happy
<troy_s> kwwii: You should know that I have chanted not worrying about making everyone happy countless times.
<troy_s> kwwii: That isn't the issue.
<kwwii> yeah, well, maybe I just don't understand you and never will - that's life
<troy_s> kwwii: And you also know that I don't backpeddle.  I was vocal on the choice of walls for Gutsy, and that is straight up.
<DanaG> hmm, here's something interesting -- I stuck the Heron on top of one of HP's wallpapers:
<DanaG> http://users.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/hp%20kuti%20heron%20tweaked.png
<DanaG> There are scaling artifacts due to me downscaling the background.
<DanaG> But I think that looks pretty snazzy.
<DanaG> I do like the red on the head a bit better -- it looks like some real birds that have red crest feathers.
<_MMA_> Wow. Nice and original. :P
<kwwii> I think that troy_s version of the non-red neck is better as well
<kwwii> DanaG: that HP background does not fit at all with the heron in my opinion
<_MMA_> Not at all.
<DanaG> You're right there.
<DanaG> Oh yeah, another note:  in the recent changes to the gdm theme -- it went from looking pretty nice to looking washed out.  I joked:  "/me takes his notebook outside and watches the GDM theme get a sunburn"
<kwwii> yeah, I will be reducing the whiteness quite a bit
<DanaG> Cool.
<DanaG> You could probably put it back where it was about 2 package versions ago.
<troy_s> DanaG: Powers that be love the status quo.
<DanaG> Dang, that's irritating -- when people above you make decisions you consider ugly.
<_MMA_> Hahahaha. We all have bosses.
<DanaG> Hmm, I just had an idea: take the current wallpaper, replace the heron with the better red-crested one, and make the background semitransparent so users can specify their own main colors for it.
<DanaG> It'd have a clear area, with little accents.
<troy_s> DanaG: Goal being?
<troy_s> DanaG: Please tell me this isn't heading down the 'The problem is brown.' path.
<DanaG> It'd let users choose their own background colors.
<_MMA_> There's _nothing_ stopping _anyone_ from creating alternative themes for Ubuntu and gettin' them in.
<DanaG> It's not brown, per se, but two things: the specific color used, and the contrast between the background and the accents.
<kwwii> I bet the orange-yellow-red would look great on a bright teal to pink gradient!
<kwwii> :p
<DanaG> Eek!
<thorwil> more green!
<DanaG> I use a bright-orange theme, myself.
<troy_s> DanaG: 1) Brown is _massively_ in vogue right now.  2) Brown in Ubuntu has almost always been sub-standard due to monochromaticism and a distinct lack of communication / motif / etc.  See OpenSUSE for an extreme example of the same tripe.
<DanaG> I haven't seen {,Open}SuSE lately.  The last I used was 10.1 or 10.2.
<DanaG> My mom had described the previous wallpaper (with the copied herons) as looking like "baby puke".
<kwwii> I left SUSE after 10 :-)
<DanaG> But the Gutsy wallpaper is a nicer shade of brown.
<troy_s> DanaG: Go look.  Its monochromatic / green / and worse, suffers from a complete lack of audience and communication.
<DanaG> Oh yeah, I remember.... I put 10.3 in a VM for about a day, then killed it.  It was quite bland.
<DanaG> Everything up until then was far better.
<troy_s> DanaG: Compare with Diana's most excellent work in F7. (F8 back to utter tripe -- the kind of look that our vacuous crowd loves to idolize.)
<DanaG> Fedora 7? The hot air balloons?
<troy_s> DanaG: Yes.
<DanaG> That gives me a mental image of the Cal Poly lab computers -- so much software missing.... like SANE backends for hte scanners they have there.
<DanaG> But hot air balloons did give a nice theme.
<DanaG> Oh yeah, I do actually use the Nodoka engine, but with a way different gtkrc and metacity:  http://users.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/screenshot-orange-nodoka.png
<troy_s> nodoka works for me.  _MMA_ isn't Nodoka the engine that was causing Cimi fuss?
<DanaG> Yeah.
<DanaG> I think so.  You could probably (almost) recreate it with the svn Murrine, but I don't have the right .gtkrc for it.
<_MMA_> Yeah. Kinda a unneeded fork.
<DanaG> s/almost/almost?/
<DanaG> The windeco is Tropic without the red button.
<troy_s> Tropic!  Long live Viper.
<kwwii> LOL
<troy_s> Nodoka lessens the heavy outline affliction.  That wins for me.
<troy_s> kwwii: AHA YOU REMEMBER.
<kwwii> Viper actually told me that he liked some of the stuff I did
<kwwii> at which point I got a bit worried
<kwwii> :p
<troy_s> The most serious blight in most of our FOSS stuff is something that Oxygen avoided last time I saw it -- that nasty 'usable' outline on every icon / interface element.
<troy_s> kwwii: Now _that_ is some funny shit.
<kwwii> hehe, you like something I did!
<nothlit> i don't mind that tango let me uses dark themes, personally, that spec allows everybody to get an icon in and have it 'together'
<kwwii> :p
<nothlit> beyond that tons of icon artists do their own thing and recreate a huuge spectrum, so :)
 * DanaG just had an idea to try the heron on the Tropic wallpaper.
<DanaG> Though desaturated.
 * kwwii gives DanaG permission
<kwwii> and then runs out to get dinner
<DanaG> Eeh, color is too different from the orange I now have.
<_MMA_> DanaG: Why not try something from scratch?
<troy_s> nothlit: But at which point are we going to stop worrying about the utopian pursuit of everything and everyone.  One of the strengths of our culture should be specificity.
<thorwil> DanaG: desaturated? try adding an outline
<_MMA_> hahahahhaah
<andreasn> troy_s: why so much hate all the time?
<DanaG> I mean I'd be desaturating the orange.
<troy_s> DanaG: Honestly -- go play with some good palette tools first.  Once you have a scheme, adjust the tones accordingly via SVG.
<andreasn> give me some love from time to time ;)
 * andreasn goes back to work
<nothlit> well, i imagine oxygen is quite 'in' atm, if we have enough artists beyond those with the project that have the capability, i'd say we're pretty set
<DanaG> I'll have to try it some time, then.
<troy_s> andreasn: Why is it that when one tries to actually discuss some of our aesthetic issues on point people start talking hate crimes?
<nothlit> but really, creating your own look is most likely going to be a distro project rather than one of tango/oxygen style
<andreasn> because I want hugs and free beer of course
<thorwil> yes. oxygen uses too many colours for an "own look". but maybe running it through a green and an oarnge filter would make it suitable for suse and ubuntu
<DanaG> Have you ever seen the red HP dv6700 series at Best Buy, with their color-matched wallpaper.
<DanaG> s/[.]/?/
<nothlit> i don't think any sort of group can speak for the 'entire' community
<DanaG> It looks cool -- it creates coherence between the wallpaper and the laptop lid.
<nothlit> no, but i didn't like that felakuti on hp at all
<thorwil> the community is much like anonymous
<DanaG> Eeh, now that you mention it, those two (bluegrey and heron) do clash.
<troy_s> andreasn: You will easily get free beer from me when we meet in person.  Free beer has nothing to do with the debate.  Your beer will _not_ have an outline however.
<andreasn> haha
<troy_s> Woo -- look at this.  Chatter in #ubuntu artwork.  That is amazing.  Now we need coz_ to show up.
<thorwil> troy_s: it will be brown-orangish, though
<troy_s> thorwil: Maybe in a green bottle.
<DanaG> Oh yeah, would the color of beer itself look good?
<thorwil> DanaG: a beer background might make quite a number of people happy. with little bubbels and foam at top
<DanaG> Heh, I just saw my new-message icon in the screenshot, and went to check for a new message... silly me.
<_MMA_> troy_s: "Chatter" we obviously have in spades. It's getting people to work together and stick around that's the problem.
<DanaG> Hmm, I wonder how this sort of thing would look in brown or orange:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/longzheng/1412301374/sizes/o/in/set-72157602082194372/
<DanaG> Eeh.
<_MMA_> DanaG: Do you have any original work?
<DanaG> I haven't created anything myself, so far.  I've just experimented tweaking random stuff.
<DanaG> I don't know what original thing I'd make.
<nothlit> lol
<nothlit> get out there and just do it :P
<_MMA_> (tm)
<troy_s> Speaking of which... nothlit how come the Fela Kuti first post to the wiki was regg'd under your handle?
<nothlit> probably because lasse and i did some moving
<troy_s> Ahh.
<troy_s> That makes sense.
<troy_s> nothlit: Are you going to the UDS?
<nothlit> yes
<troy_s> nothlit: Ahh good stuff!
<nothlit> have to get a new laptop for it, apparently my folks need the laptop we've got and my tablet's screen is dead so
<DanaG> Interesting thing: you can get desktop LCDs with built-in Wacom tablets.
<nothlit> cintiqs have been around for like half a decade
<nothlit> you can hack one together yourself as well
<nothlit> theres instructions on the net and even youtube videos of it
<nothlit> tbh, a regular nonscreened tablet is a lot more gestural, but for those with 14+ hour workdays i've read that it lightens fatigue
<nothlit> it helps that its just so huge and its there though, always setup
<nothlit> kk bbl
<savvas> DanaG: something like this? ;)  http://img367.imageshack.us/my.php?image=brownishlw0.png
<DanaG> That's kinda' interesting.
<savvas> gimp's colourising rules hehe
<DanaG> Hmm, it doesn't quite fit with my orange, though -- but then again, I've chosen an orange that perhaps nothing will "go with".
<DanaG> It definitely reminds me of a beer bottle, or something, though -- with odd spiky things you wouldn't want in a real bottle.
 * DanaG goes off to roam.
<DanaG> I'll be back later.
<nothlit> interesting, blender doesn't like to start windowed in compiz
<_MMA_> nothlit: No. Always goes fullscreen here.
<_MMA_> Kinda odd. Noticed it a while ago.
<_MMA_> Personally I wouldn't use then both together anyway.
<nothlit> if you disable the fullscreen legacy support in the workarounds, or use the -p option it will
<nothlit> i wouldn't, but i was just trying to take a quick look through some old files, didn't bother/forgot
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-04-05
<nothlit> woah, 500 dollar rebate going on right now for 21uxs
<psyke83> kwwii, hey man. I made a small change to make metacity work with the color picker. Will I send you the modified gtkrc, or is it too late to push more changes?
<kwwii> hi
<kwwii> you can send the changes to me
<kwwii> I can still change some things for another couple of days
<DanaG> Are the current wallpaper and GDM theme likely to be tweaked any further before release?
<DanaG> I prefer the red-crested heron, for one thing.
<psyke83> kwwii, sent
<kwwii> psyke83: great, thanks
<psyke83> kwwii, I have to add another fix, will email you the update when it's done
<kwwii> cool
<psyke83> kwwii, sent
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-03-30
<ethana2> I'm trying to modify a theme such that it completely removes window title bars
<ethana2> I'm using a window management mechanism that does not require them
<ethana2> I couldn't figure out how to do this via gconf-editor in Ubuntu Jaunty
<ethana2> any ideas?
<ethana2> ohhh
<ethana2> maximus!
 * ethana2 installs
<ethana2> ..wait
<ethana2> it's not doing anything
<pwnguin> http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/3710/screenshot003zgc.png
<pwnguin> anyone know why there's a drop shadow hanging out in the middle of my gnome-panel?
<BHSPitMonkey> pwnguin, you're using an image as your panel background, and you've made your panel bigger than that image
<pwnguin> panel properties: none (use system theme)
<pwnguin> err
<pwnguin> under background
<pwnguin> im just using the regular human theme...
<BHSPitMonkey> pwnguin, I guess the human theme was made with 24px in mind
<pwnguin> the thing is
<pwnguin> it used to be fine
<pwnguin> this just appeared the other day on an upgrade
<BHSPitMonkey> pwnguin, either make your panel normal-sized, or manually tweak its background color/image
<pwnguin> hmm
<pwnguin> http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/9274/screenshot004l.png
<pwnguin> what i get with a background color set =/
<pwnguin> maybe i should just use clearlooks
<knut> hi
<knut> i need help with this, if this is possible to do: http://imagebin.org/43684
<knut> hey everyone sleeping?
<knut> :P
<knut> does anbody kniow how to tweak the UI of nautilus so that it will look like this: http://imagebin.org/43684
 * _MMA_ waves.
 * thorwil floats
<_MMA_> Anyone know how to stop icon-naming-utils from simlinking icons I made actual ones for?
<_MMA_> Nevermind. Hickup on my end.
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-03-31
<SiDi> hi
<andreasn> kwwii, ping
<kwwii> andreasn: pong
<andreasn> kwwii, what widget theme is default in the current stable version of Ubuntu? the one called Human or the one called Human Clearlooks?
<kwwii> andreasn: the one called human
<kwwii> human-clearlooks should probably go bye-bye
<ziroday> andreasn: Ubuntulooks or something like that IIRC
<kwwii> no, ubuntulooks is gone
<andreasn> great. What is the default in the current unstable version?
<kwwii> andreasn: the same
<kwwii> andreasn: if you notice that anything else is default, please let me know or file a bug
<andreasn> I'm running the stable version still. Just making sure that Thunderbird 3 looks good with the default
<kwwii> btw, I have a nasty bit of bronchitis and am taking antibiotics and other meds so if I don't respond for a while don't be alarmed
<Cimi_> kwwii, mockups?
<_MMA_> "kwwii: btw, I have a nasty bit of bronchitis and am taking antibiotics and other meds so if I don't respond for a while don't be alarmed"
<Cimi_> _MMA_, I know
<Cimi_> I'm no alarmed :)
<Cimi_> when he will come back he will answer
<thorwil> kwwii: get well soon!
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-04-01
<andreasn> kwwii, ping
<kwwii> andreasn: pong
<andreasn> kwwii, when is the final release date of the next stable Ubuntu? pretty soon, right?
<andreasn> I wonder if it's too late to get graphics changes in or not
<andreasn> http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/184285/tb3-ubuntu.png
<nysosym> ohh i hope so, i don't like the login
<andreasn> I made TB use the regular system folders, but they look a bit small compared to the other icons
<andreasn> if I recall correctly, there was also a firefox bug about this
<andreasn> kwwii, I'll do some edits to the 16x16 and see how much work it is and if it improves
<andreasn> kwwii, just so you don't suspect I'm trying to dump work on you :)
<kwwii> andreasn: we can still make some small changes
<kwwii> no worries
<kwwii> andreasn: sorry, I've been sick and somewhat out of the loop the last couple of days
<thorwil> kwwii: heh, i'm sorry april the 1st coincides with not your best health. i thought i had included enough clues, like complaining about elitism ;)
<kwwii> thorwil: lol, at first I didn't get it but after a few more hours sleep I did :p
<Superdweeb> hey guiz
<Superdweeb> if I promise not to bug you for a whole year
<Superdweeb> will you fulfill one of my minor requests?
<thorwil> Superdweeb: who's "you"? more important, define "minor request"
<Superdweeb> Simple.
<Superdweeb> I'm an annoying user who wants his gnome-panel to be _fully_ transparent.
<Superdweeb> you've made massive strides towards that point.
<Superdweeb> the handles on the end still need themeing.
<Superdweeb> The new wave theme attempts to customize them, but that's not any good if you want a transparent panel.
<Superdweeb> Because it uses, like, really dark colors.
<Superdweeb> making transparency tweaks worthless.
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-04-02
<thorwil> good morning!
<thorwil> kwwii: i think this is no good: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTitle
<thorwil> i would rather discourage any use of it
<SiDi> hi
<SiDi> thorwil: you fooled n scared me :O
<kwwii> thorwil: yeah, no doubt but it is all we have
<kwwii> thorwil: do you know if anyone built packages of the new murrine svn?
<kwwii> Cimi_: do you know if there are packages for the new murrine svn anywhere?
<thorwil> no idea
<thorwil> kwwii: i would simply remove https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTitle
<kwwii> thorwil: well, the package is in universe as well
<thorwil> kwwii: can't stop people from getting and using it, but we can make it a bit less likely that more people find out about it ;)
<kwwii> true
<thorwil> i've send a mail to the list about wiki cleanup, but i hasn't made its way back to me, yet :/
<thorwil> quite unusual, as normally i receive my copy almost immediately
<kwwii> well, in the end, we are working on rebarnding things anyway, so I think things will change in that regard anyway
<kwwii> rebranding
<thorwil> kwwii: could you please have a look if "Tricky Wiki" somehow made it into moderation?
<kwwii> thorwil: I don't see anything in the email queue if that is what you mean
<kwwii> thorwil: which list?
<thorwil> kwwii: that's what i meant, thanks. plain ubuntu-art
<kwwii> right, nothing in the queue
 * thorwil sends again after tripple checking address
<thorwil> ah, worked
 * thorwil goes for a walk
<kwwii> thorwil: nice stuff, great ideas
<thorwil> kwwii: thanks!
<Cimi_> kwwii, no idea
<kwwii> Cimi_: found it already, thanks
<Cimi_> kwwii, ok
<Cimi_> I still need ideas for the treeview
<Cimi_> before releasing 0.90.3
<Cimi_> with a couple small fixes
<kwwii> Cimi_: yeah, sorry about that, I am in bed most of the day :(
<Cimi_> no problem
<thorwil> kwwii: so GutsyIconReview to Incoming/Gutsy and NewHumanTesting to Incoming/Intrepid(?), or would you prefer a "Feedback" section?
<kwwii> thorwil: I think Incoming makes most sense, although the NewHumanTesting might be better off somewhere were it doesn't get lost
<thorwil> oh, the archive is incomplete: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Archives
<thorwil> kwwii: were the meetings all in 2008?
<thorwil> bbl
<thorwil> plop
<thorwil> kwwii: where's the NEXT ARTWORK MEETING date defined?
<_MMA_> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-art-pkg/human-icon-theme/rework
 * thorwil runs with scissor in hands through the wiki
<thorwil> is this good for anything? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Guidelines/InBzr
<thorwil> kwwii: solved that
<kwwii> thorwil: hey, sounds like you are busy
<thorwil> yes, no captives!
<thorwil> "Internal Server Error" during a rename for all Kyudo pages, ouch!
<miik> ubuntu looks professionalism
<miik> it seems people have no clue about usability
<miik> the GDM theme looks like the result of nepotism
<_MMA_> Well that's a great entrance.
<thorwil> miik: would you like to be kicked?
<miik> and the scrollbars lack contrast
<miik> no?
<miik> i want you to fix this -- http://launchpadlibrarian.net/24705138/scrollbar.png
<_MMA_> miik: How about you start up a chat rather than starting off by being insulting?
<miik> lacks professionalism*
<_MMA_> *friendly chat
<miik> well, i need tell people whats up
<miik> and truth is, usability is horrible
<_MMA_> hahahahahhahahahahahahaha
<miik> the GDM theme looks like the result of nepotism
<miik> seriously, you seen the GDM theme in Jaunty?
<miik> noway that shit would pass at Apple or Microsoft
<_MMA_> Seriously, you gonna chill or leave?
<miik> you gotta fix the scrollbars
<miik> so the OS is actually useable
<_MMA_> no
<miik> look
<miik> i told you whats wrong with it
<miik> and proposed a solution
<miik> now fix it
<miik> microsoft and apple have people who look at stuff
<thorwil> miik: you seem to have an entirely wrong concept of what this channel is about ... and on how to communicate with people in a constructive manner
<miik> and fix stuff
<miik> thats why their stuff is nice
<miik> this linux and open source, they cant do anything
<miik> not even when i tell them what todo
<miik> its no wonder linux has been 15+ years and nobody gives a shit about it, when they cant even get scrollbars right
<_MMA_> hehe
<miik> dude, you're so noob, you cant even ban anyone
<miik> wtf? lol
<miik> look, fix the colors
<miik> its no wonder linux has been 15+ years and nobody gives a shit about it, when they cant even get scrollbars right
<_MMA_> Maybe this is more fun? :)
<miik> god damn communist hippies
<miik> 15+ years, and they cant even make usable scrollbars
<miik> with good colors
<_MMA_> hahahhahahaa
<miik> mac os x and windows have better scrollbars and usability
<_MMA_> hahahhahahaha
<miik> honestly, what kind of idiot is the guy responsible for the artwork?
<_MMA_> :P
<miik> i want to talk to the guy responsible
<_MMA_> He's a wizard
<miik> fuck this shit
<thorwil> living in a tower
<miik> fucking open source communist hippie asshole
<miik> go suck a dick
<miik> bye
<_MMA_> bye
<thorwil> wow
<_MMA_> hahahhahahahahahhahahahahaha
<SiDi> Hello people
<thorwil> his suggestion looked alright, I have to say ;>
<thorwil> hi SiDi
<_MMA_> thorwil: I couldn't give a crap if he had the cure to Cancer. He was an ass.
<thorwil> _MMA_: of course, that's why i said that now he's gone
<SiDi> (i think im more or less a communist hippie, tho)
 * _MMA_ has become more of one.
<_MMA_> :P
<thorwil> i know a canadian who calls himself a nazi-hippie
<SiDi> quite weird
<kwwii> hey, nazi-hippies are people too
<SiDi> thorwil: gz on your april fool
<SiDi> you're the one who caught me this year
<thorwil> SiDi: always pleased to entertain ;)
<kwwii> i didn't think it was funny one bit :p
<kwwii> lol
<thorwil> kwwii: maybe your perspective was more head-on, less sideways like mine ;)
<kwwii> thorwil: no doubt...the pills made things seem very real to me
<kwwii> you should keep the email I sent you though, it is probably funny to read
<kwwii> at least now you know people care about you :)
<thorwil> kwwii: it was funny and weird. and it's all archived :)
<kwwii> thorwil: to clear things up, the entire specs part can go I think
<kwwii> unless we find a good use for it
<thorwil> kwwii: WarningThemes and Powder shall go there
<kwwii> thorwil: good idea
<_MMA_> thorwil: "WarningThemes" isn't gonna happen. I don't think we should waste our time. There's technical reasons why it wont work.
<thorwil> kwwii: tell me and i will delete the old specs pages
<kwwii> thorwil: just sent you an email saying to delete them
<thorwil> kwwii: heh, ok
<thorwil> _MMA_: i'm still hesitant about removing WarningThemes.
<_MMA_> Why?
<_MMA_> I just wouldn't move it to a new spot.
<thorwil> _MMA_: without moving, it takes space on the start page
<_MMA_> "thorwil: kwwii: WarningThemes and Powder shall go there" sounds like you're moving it to some new spot so we can work on it.
<_MMA_> thorwil: Got that link handy?
<thorwil> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/WarningThemes
<_MMA_> And https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs is the "Start" page?
<thorwil> no, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork is
<thorwil> huh?
<thorwil> now it's https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specifications/WarningThemes
<_MMA_> thorwil: Well where's it taking up space you don't like?
<thorwil> _MMA_: in the link list
<thorwil> _MMA_: it looked like something important, being on one level with BreatheIconSet ;)
<_MMA_> Oh. I see what you mean.
<_MMA_> I'd still kill it. Or archive it somewhere. We need a spot for deprecated/abandoned ideas.
<thorwil> Specifications now needs to be changed to not be all about LP blueprints :/
<_MMA_> thorwil: You can add some <<BR>> in there to space some things out.
<thorwil> _MMA_: do you feel like asking Ryan Prior?
<thorwil> ugly
 * _MMA_ looks around as he notices Cimi has taken throwil's body.
<kwwii> :p
<_MMA_> thorwil: About the WarningTheme? Im not that nice. I would just move it. We can bring it up on the Ml I guess.
<kwwii> it is technicaly not possible to do it at this time
<thorwil> heh. actually i'm just a logic markup fascist ;p
<_MMA_> :)
<kwwii> so I think there needs to be more of a discussion around how ot do it than how it should look
<thorwil> yeah, bring it up man!
<_MMA_> kwwii: It sould involve the ability to set a theme for root, then everyone else. Currentlt, everyone just gets "default user".
<_MMA_> *should
<_MMA_> Damn I should look before hitting Enter.
<kwwii> _MMA_: right on both
<kwwii> ;)
<_MMA_> hahaha He filed a bug. :) bug 354018
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 354018 in human-theme "Lack of contrast in scrollbar results in poor usability" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/354018
<kwwii> the human theme? who uses that anymore?
<_MMA_> :P
<thorwil> gotta love that "poor usability". instead of "makes it hard to see", or something
 * _MMA_ comments
<_MMA_> (makes it sound like Troy) :P
<SiDi> not seeing a scrollbar hugely decreases my productivity.. huhu
<thorwil> Troy is a good man. gifted me with "The Elements of Typographic Style" ;)
<_MMA_> :)
<thorwil> SiDi: right, without enough contrast there, i totally lose orientation, any sense of where in the world i am!
<SiDi> Yeh
<SiDi> i'd prefer borderless windows but black/white 50px scrollbars
<_MMA_> :P
<SiDi> because i lose productivity, and you know, this sinks me into a quite hard depression
<_MMA_> kwwii: His issue (the bug) can be changed in Murrine I know. I do it in Studio's theme. Looks like DarkRoom does also. If it's Human with Ubuntu looks I'd mark "Won't Fix".
 * _MMA_ wants to mark "Invalid" just to be a tool but then realizes it's a waste of time.
<thorwil> kwwii: say, do have that wildcard in your wiki settings and do you see all my actions?
<thorwil> just wonder if said wildcard works reliably
<kwwii> thorwil: no, I am not subscribed to all the pages or such
<kwwii> I probably should be
<kwwii> _MMA_: :p
<kwwii> lol, I like the MY Pages link in the wiki
<kwwii> it does absolutely nothing
<kwwii> except break, of course
<thorwil> My pages? -> oh, Lost something?.
<kwwii> yeah, I lost my pages, apparently :p
<kwwii> well, time for a film, bbl
<thorwil> cya!
<kwwii> have fun
<thorwil> must have looked like vandalism to those guys who receive notification on everything in the wiki :)
<thorwil> good night!
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-04-03
<IsmailBhai> hi
<thorwil> kwwii: i can now confirm that watching "Artwork" and "Artwork/.*" works. but no notifications on newly created pages, afaics
<kwwii> thorwil: right, that is what I expected
<thorwil> kwwii: just added a point on that lack to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/MinorWikiTweaks
<kwwii> nice
<Cimi> kwwii, I have updated the engine
<thorwil> if Matthew offers a finger, we should ask for the hand! ;)
<thorwil> Cimi: what's up with updating the engine again and again? it's like you do that on purpose!
<Cimi> thorwil, ?
<thorwil> nevermind :)
<Cimi> i haven't updated the engine
<SiDi> Hello
<Cimi> no release yet
<Cimi> just update the svn for testing
<thorwil> hi SiDi
<Cimi> so kwwii could test the new version
<kwwii> Cimi: dude, I just got the old one included yesterday
<Cimi> Â°_Â°
<kwwii> I think it is too late
<Cimi> the old one is bugged
<kwwii> today is the freeze for next week
<Cimi> look at synaptic
<Cimi> do you want a release today?
 * thorwil waves
<kwwii> no, what I want is to not be the one always bugging devs with code that I have no idea about
<_MMA_> yo yo
<kwwii> I don't like having to go and promise that some code works which I have no idea about
<Cimi> why you did not ask me?
<kwwii> what should I ask you?
<Cimi> why you patch application and don't ask me?
<Cimi> hey, is the code ready? could you make a release?
<kwwii> ??? what application?
<Cimi> that is enough
<Cimi> murrine?
<Cimi> application <-> libray
<kwwii> I didn't touch anything
<Cimi> *library
<Cimi> who patched the engine then?
<kwwii> no idea, I didn't know that it was patched
<Cimi> me too
<kwwii> my whole point is that I don't know enough about what is going on inside murrine to be the one responsible for it :)
<Cimi> http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/g/gtk2-engines-murrine/gtk2-engines-murrine_0.90.2-0ubuntu2/changelog
<kwwii> what was patched?
<kwwii> I don't see any patch there
<kwwii> all I see is the latest release of the svn code from yesterday
<Cimi> yeah
<Cimi> that means they grabbed a patch and patched the engine from the svn
<Cimi> anyway could you test the latest svn so to have a feedback?
<Cimi> i want to make a release for other distro then
<kwwii> I do not see any patch
<kwwii> hrm, so how do i get something included in universe.....
<_MMA_> kwwii: Pop in #ubuntu-motu.
<_MMA_> It's a process though.
<_MMA_> But those guys can help.
<_MMA_> knome: So what's going on with the Xubuntu art? I haven't really seen any of that "cross-disrto communication" from ya. :)
<Cimi> kwwii, did you tested the new svn? I just want your feedbeck before releaseing 0.90.3
<kwwii> Cimi: to be honest, no
<Cimi> could you do it?
<kwwii> Cimi: I'll build it now
<Cimi> ok thank you
<kwwii> ok, what should I be looking for?
<_MMA_> "uglyness"
<kwwii> hrm, I just noticed that the keyboard highlight seems to have one pixel more on the left (or top on vertical elements) than on the right/bottom
 * _MMA_ is teaching his son to play Super Mario Bros.
<kwwii> what is a good app to test the tree view in?
<_MMA_> kwwii: Nautilus's sidebar maybe?
<kwwii> _MMA_: yeah, other than that?
<_MMA_> Um... gconf-editor or Exaile
<Cimi> just arrows for the selected item
<Cimi> hold down "ctrl" and move arrows to see the focus on unselected items
<Cimi> now I'm using the classic dots for the selected item, until we find out a better solution
<kwwii> seems good to me
<kwwii> nothing stands out, but once a few thousand people stare at it there might be more comments
<Cimi> kwwii, you like the dots?
<_MMA_> Screenshot? :)
<kwwii> Cimi: I don't understand which ones you mean :)
<kwwii> 15:36 < Cimi> hold down "ctrl" and move arrows to see the focus on unselected  items
<kwwii> which arrows?
<Cimi> keys?
<Cimi> select a treeview item
<kwwii> ahhhh
<kwwii> now I get it
<kwwii> seems clear to me
<Cimi> yeah
<Cimi> the thing I don't like is the dots on the selected item
<kwwii> I am gonna test this on my other laptop, brb
<Cimi> though I don't have other solution
<kwwii> hrm, which dots do you mean...I still don't see dots
<Cimi> kwwii, maybe you did not update the engine
<kwwii> well, I did a make install :p
<Cimi> did you restarted nautilus?
<kwwii> libtool: install: /usr/bin/install -c .libs/libmurrine.so /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/2.10.0/engines/libmurrine.so
<kwwii> etc
<Cimi> <Cimi> did you restarted nautilus?
<kwwii> yes, I have logged out and back in
<Cimi> ok
<kwwii> kwwii@ballard:~/svn/murrine-trunk$ svn update
<Cimi> when you select a listview
<kwwii> At revision 172.
<Cimi> and move arrows
<Cimi> you will get the focus
<kwwii> I see the rubber-band kinda thing
<kwwii> the line with a fill
<kwwii> line around a box
<Cimi> if you hold the control keys
<kwwii> so in gconf-editor, I hold control and arrow down
<Cimi> if you don't hold ctrl
<kwwii> and the keyboard focus moves
<Cimi> you just move the selected item
<kwwii> ahhhhh
<kwwii> my screen is so big I didn't notice the dots
<kwwii> :p
<Cimi> lol
<kwwii> now I see it
<Cimi> they don't rock
<kwwii> no, not really
<Cimi> but I don't have other solutions
<kwwii> if I noticed them more I wouldn't like them
<Cimi> if you have other solutions... here I am
<kwwii> why not the same thing as the keyboard focus highlight only darker?
<kwwii> ie. instead of dots use a very slightly different line
<kwwii> and round the box, give it a pixel or two of padding
<Cimi> because the focus is placed over the text
<Cimi> so I can't place a filled element
<kwwii> ahhh, now I get it...it is not the same as when you use your mouse
<Cimi> so I will have just a line
<kwwii> boah, this is very complex
<kwwii> what if the line was a slightly different hue....let me mock something up
<Cimi> hue?
<Cimi> it seems difficult
<Cimi> and it won't be consistent
<kwwii> yeah, it doesn't work
<kwwii> and making it slightly darker or lighter than the mouse selection version is crap too
<kwwii> it doesn't look different enough
<kwwii> what if the dots were longer
<Cimi> LONGER = ?
<kwwii> http://sinecera.de/murrine_mock.png
<kwwii> I just put a line on top of the existing screenshot, so it is not perfect but you get the idea
<kwwii> and the line is way too dark, etc
<kwwii> but the point is that it looks better than dots and different than a rubber band
<kwwii> :-)
<kwwii> longer dots = dashes, I guess
<Cimi> ok
<Cimi> though it is just the same, maybe one darker line is better
<Cimi> kwwii, GtkWidget::focus-line-pattern = "\002\002"
<kwwii> Cimi: I think that looks pretty good
<kwwii> might need a bit of tweaking but it is better than using a solid line, which is the same as the mouse
<kwwii> unless you can get the two to look different enough
<Cimi> kwwii, time for releasing 0.90.3?
<kwwii> Cimi: yeah, looks good to me...i like 001/005 better though :p
<Cimi> yeah
<Cimi> nice too
<Cimi> http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/208474/Icons.jpg
<Cimi> wow cool!
<Cimi> new gnome icons for 2.28
<kwwii> wow
<Cimi> coming in the svn soon
<_MMA_> kwwii: Look at the player window. (upper left)
<_MMA_> Kinda odd some of them cast 2 shadows. Nice though.
<kwwii> lol, jono is finaly going to be famous
<SiDi> Some of these so look like Breathe's Oo
<Cimi> Your tarball will appear in the following location on ftp.gnome.org:
<Cimi>   http://download.gnome.org/sources/murrine/0.90/
<Cimi> cool, new release is coming
<_MMA_> kwwii: ;)
 * kwwii heads out to the store...bbl
<_MMA_> SiDi: They will all have a similar feel because of the res. I think these are a little softer style.
<Superdweeb> kwwii, I'm upping the bounty to 20 bucks on the gnome-panel-handle transparency issue.
<Cimi> Superdweeb, which handle? screenshot pls
<Superdweeb> cimi.
<Superdweeb> CIMI>
<Superdweeb> I'll get you a link.
<Superdweeb> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-panel/+bug/46659
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 46659 in gnome-panel "Buttons for hiding needs to be transparent" [Unknown,Confirmed]
<Superdweeb> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=71794&action=view << do this and get it into the ubuntu repo by koala for 20 bucks.
<Superdweeb> get it into jaunty for 40 bucks.
<Cimi> it doesn't seem to be easy to fix
<Superdweeb> What's so hard about it?
<Cimi> non-composite compatibility
<Superdweeb> um, then why is the rest of the panel transparent?
<Cimi> because it is using a background pixmap
<Superdweeb> so map the handles to a background pixmap.
<Cimi> taken from the screen
<Superdweeb> Same.
<Superdweeb> ALSO, screw the handles with the arrow buttons, I'm more concerned with the stubs.
<Cimi> I'm studying now anyway
<Cimi> will  take a look later
<Superdweeb> eh.
<_MMA_> Cimi: Should I add that " GtkScale::trough-side-details = 1" to Studio's theme also?
<Cimi> _MMA_, of course
<Cimi> that change is required
<Cimi> or you won't get the fill
<_MMA_> Oh wait. I set that to 0 for some reason. Maybe I did it by design. I gotta look.
<kwwii> Superdweeb: it should be ok once the new human theme package without the panel bg setting comes through the update
<Superdweeb> o man that would be super dooper.
<kwwii> Superdweeb: you can test it yourself by removing the pixmap which is set in the gtkrc
<Superdweeb> I'll wait, thanks, I already went in and screwed up half my themes by hacking on gtkrc.
<Superdweeb> I'm so stupid.
<kwwii> :p
<kwwii> no worries
<Superdweeb> I made a new-wave variate called terl-wave and I tried to edit the panel pics, because they were included in that theme, but the gtkrc specifies so many colors for the panel that it's impossible to un-theme it.
<_MMA_> kwwii: So you just removed the background image?
<Superdweeb> And I must say, the new wave theme is delicious, I really say it should become the standard. It's totally newish looking, like the mac os x theme or vista theme.
<thorwil> 0.o http://stas.nerd.ro/stuff/ubuntu-md.png
<Superdweeb> that rabbit is NUTS man.
 * thorwil hopes Mads will jump in
<thorwil> yeah, must be rabies
<_MMA_> kwwii: Personally, if the theme is meant to not be used with a transparent panel then it's not a bug. I'm sure the Studio theme would see this issue as well.
<_MMA_> kwwii: And I hope you didn't do something crazy like try to set the panle bg in gconf or something.
<_MMA_> *panel
<thorwil> kwwii: how do you think of adding a call for release party posters into the schedule for karmic? with time enough to hope for some good entries and then making them public
 * thorwil -> dinner
<kwwii> _MMA_: yeah, I removed the panel pic
<kwwii> it looked like crap on a bigger panel anyway
<kwwii> the panel should be forked
<kwwii> and simply replaced
<kwwii> it is soooo nasty
<kwwii> thorwil: sounds like stuff that could be coordinated with the marketing team
<_MMA_> kwwii: I'm sure we'll have something worse for GNOME 3
<Superdweeb> I'm dreading it.
<kwwii> hehe
<Superdweeb> I've been looking at the gnome blogs, and some of the stuff they are proposing seems... well..
<Superdweeb> mono.
<Superdweeb> portable to windows.
<Superdweeb> kwwii, do you know anything about plymouth working on older video cards?
<_MMA_> Superdweeb: Nothing to do with my issues. Which go into the aesthetic designs (or lack there of) in GNOME.
<Superdweeb> well, I've been way happier with gnome 2.24 then I was with kde 4.0.
<starsunflower> so that mono thing is serious?  I thought it was an april fools day article
<Superdweeb> I don't think so.
<Superdweeb> I'm seeing a lot of mono stuff pop up in the repo for automatic install.
<Superdweeb> I fiddled with monodevelop and I think it's going to take off like a rocket.
<starsunflower> wow
<Superdweeb> the problem is, as a microsoftian coder, I've worked with c#, and frankly, I'm not that impressed with it.
<starsunflower> oic
<Superdweeb> It's all virtual machine based, with realtime compile to assembly.
<starsunflower> i wonder how hard it would be to get a folder view that displays images inside the folders like xp
<starsunflower> with the default icon set, the .txt files show "text" in this manner
<starsunflower> i don't know if i'm explaining it correctly
<Superdweeb> running recursive for loops under c++ is 1000% faster than it is in c#, for example for X{for Y{ for Z {for Q=1, Q<100,Q++{ add 1 to counter;}}}}}
<Superdweeb> well starsunflower, on my system the icons for various entries show their contents.
<Superdweeb> If you mean folder background representative of contents
<Superdweeb> it would need to be able to decide what the contents are, or else use a generic backgroud
<Superdweeb> but I wouldn't say no to some stenciled patterns around the inside bottom corners.
<_MMA_> starsunflower: Like setting an image to "folder" and outside of that folder shows the image?
<starsunflower> so is this a new feature?  I'm running 8.04
<starsunflower> the folder view itself displays the content, like say the first image
<starsunflower> like view>thumbnails in xp
<Superdweeb> by folder view do you mean simply looking at the icon for the folder
<starsunflower> yes
<starsunflower> the icons for text documents display the first snippet of text in that document
<Superdweeb> like when you choose PICTURES for the folder type and it shows the pictures on the folder icon
<starsunflower> is that an option in 8.10?
<Superdweeb> I don't think that's up our line.
<starsunflower> sweeeet!!!!
<Superdweeb> No, 9.04, which is what I'm using, does not have that.
<Superdweeb> We still use emblems.
<starsunflower> i keep one machine with the dark side, just for viewing large folders in this way
<starsunflower> to save my wrists from carpel tunnel
<starsunflower> so i don't have to drill down
<_MMA_> starsunflower: Seeing the contents of a folder, no. Setting a image for that folder to use, yes.
<Superdweeb> by large folders you mean large folders full of folders which are full of contents..
<starsunflower> k
<starsunflower> exactly
<Superdweeb> and why do we use the word folders
<starsunflower> say 1 folder with 100 other folders containing images
<Superdweeb> we should rename folders to boxes.
<Superdweeb> I keep all my paperwork in boxes under my bed.
<starsunflower> the images are a screenshot of what the folder contains
<starsunflower> say if someone was workingon icon sets, and had a screenshot of an icon set, and had it all broken down by folder pointing to the name of the set...
<starsunflower> that kind of thing
<Superdweeb> that would be cool, but I'm afraid you have to code it, because this will require three things
<Superdweeb> this will require nautilus to be able to display pictures as folder icons automatically
<Superdweeb> it will require nautilus to be able to capture snapshots of the folder contents automatically
<Superdweeb> and it will require someone to  fix the bugs caused by the first two changes.
<starsunflower> i'm not a developer but would like to learn....i'm wondering if the code used for the text file view would be in any way reusable
<Superdweeb> Probably not.
 * _MMA_ has a script to set covers as folder images for his music.
<starsunflower> the default ubuntu icon set displays a snippet of the text from the doc
<Superdweeb> mma.
<Superdweeb> give him the script.
<Superdweeb> quietly, BEFORE the penguin mafia find out.
<starsunflower> _MMA_ I don't know what he means...but figured I'd mention it
<starsunflower> would be a cool feature for sure
<_MMA_> I don't know either.
<starsunflower> k
<starsunflower> well worth a mention
<starsunflower> :D
<starsunflower> who's the penguin mafia?  lol!!
<_MMA_> I'm personally happy with the thumbnailing as is. Which is IMO miles better than MS. The folder thing, meh. Not for me. I can see others liking it though.
<starsunflower> well, i have a lot of files, and my wrist starts to hurt.....
<starsunflower> if i have to drill down to every single file
<starsunflower> easier to just view 100 folders with a picture preview
<starsunflower> and then i have multiple folders set up in that way, with many files
<starsunflower> so....
<starsunflower> ok, well, thx!
<starsunflower> :D
<_MMA_> starsunflower: I'm sure something could be scripted to do what you want.
<_MMA_> But it would be needed to be manually run every time you wanted them to refresh.
<starsunflower> in view options?
<_MMA_> Well it would be much like my script for setting album covers as images for folders.
<_MMA_> But...
<_MMA_> It would grab, say, 4 images to stitch together.
<starsunflower> it wouldn't have to do that though...even if it just grabbed the first one
<_MMA_> Hmm...
<_MMA_> Lemmie look over my script.
<starsunflower> I think that would be a really hot feature for new releases
<_MMA_> starsunflower: You comfortable running scripts?
<starsunflower> i could try
<starsunflower> :D
<starsunflower> am willing to
<_MMA_> Ok. I need a little info 1st.
<_MMA_> Are your images named a particular way?
<starsunflower> lets see...
<_MMA_> I assume they are all *.jpg?
<starsunflower> most of them are .jpg
<starsunflower> there may be some .png from screenshots
<_MMA_> Its that * I'm curious about.
<starsunflower> oh...I don't see a *
<starsunflower> text or numbers for file name
<_MMA_> Sorry. * means a wildcard.
<starsunflower> oh, ok
<_MMA_> Like, the script would look for *.jpg. Looking at anything really with that extention.
<starsunflower> k
<_MMA_> But with multiple images in there, I don't know how it would work. Well, we can test. Gimmie a min.
<starsunflower> k
<starsunflower> i think most of them have one image
<starsunflower> yeah, they do
<thorwil> kwwii: sure. it's dumb that marketing and artwork don't speak with each other. though i have to admit i don't quite see why marketing exists ;)
<_MMA_> Now note: This script will show the image inside as the folder. *Not* on top of the folder. So, it could appear to some as an actual file.
<starsunflower> k
<_MMA_> starsunflower: Gimmie a min. Im just trying to see where the settings for this went so you can reverse the process if you wish.
<starsunflower> k
<kwwii> to be honest, I am not sure how much marketing is done outside of the canonical marketing people these days
<thorwil> kwwii: that's my point, kinda
<Superdweeb> if you'll ship me cd's and t-shirts, I'll get a table and set it up at the job fair at my local college.
<Superdweeb> :-P
<thorwil> super, dweeb
<_MMA_> starsunflower: Just a note: This is where my script is derived from: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=486359
<kwwii> :)
<Superdweeb> I don't think you'll find more than 10 ubuntu users in my entire state.
<SiDi> How many humans at all are there in your state, Superdweeb ?
<Superdweeb> People around here rely on windows about as much as they do on the tendancies of democratic politicians, which is to say, well, they may have accidentally voted for mcain, but everything else was donkey kong 3.
<kwwii> superdweebania
<SiDi> (democratic politicians sounds so antinomic :P)
<starsunflower> Same goes in my state
<Superdweeb> well, they've voted ike skelton for senator here for 30 years
<Superdweeb> The head of IT at my college is a redhat enthusiast, but I'm afraid ADOBE CS4, AUTOCAD, VS STUDIO 2008, MICROFOCUS COBOL .NET, and a crapload more programs totally unrelated to my degree that I will never mention or use simply don't work in wine.
<Superdweeb> not to mention the massive amount of prentice hall testing software written in activex/java.
<_MMA_> Use what works for you. What's best for the job. Some things simply have no replacement.
<Superdweeb> right.
<starsunflower> my partner is in the same boat...has to use VS for work--to pay the bills
<SiDi> Superdweeb: maybe if he can explain whoever is in charge of paying for the software how many million dollars they'd save each year but using free software, that'd change :p
<thorwil> don't listen to him. if there's no free software tool to do it, it is like it can't be done at all! if you have no access to gnu/food, dont eat!!
<SiDi> it's been quite efficient for the french authorities. the army and national assembly are using ubuntu, now :o
<Superdweeb> actually, free software, in some circumstances, is a load of crap.
<starsunflower> is ruby on rails free?
<thorwil> no, it's on rails
<_MMA_> starsunflower: Ok ready?
<starsunflower> yes
<Superdweeb> When you adopt gnome or kde design practices, for instance, some ways you have to learn the backtrack: developers who have been working with the code for years know things you don't that are required to make your programs work.
<_MMA_> Open text editor and paste the info in this link there. (webpage->editor)
<Superdweeb> With microsoft development you don't have to worry about the OS interacting correctly with your program, you just write it, publish it, and you are done.
<_MMA_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/143621/
<_MMA_> starsunflower: Save as: folder_preview.py
<starsunflower> do i use the parentheses?
<_MMA_> starsunflower: Open that link above in a browser
<SiDi> Superdweeb: i wish people who make games with visual c++ could hear that. They usually are so happy with the winsxs manifests :)
<starsunflower> k, paste that in text editor and save as folder_preview.py
<_MMA_> starsunflower: Copy the text from line 1 to 52. Simple copy->paste.
<_MMA_> Got that ^^^
 * _MMA_ waits.
<starsunflower> gedit dumped the text under the line numbers....just a sec...
<starsunflower> list of line numbers...then text that goes with the lines in big paragraph at the bottom....
<_MMA_> If you manually select the text on the webpage it doesn't select the #s.
<_MMA_> starsunflower: I have to go soon.
<starsunflower> k
<starsunflower> well thanks for the help
<_MMA_> You ready?
<starsunflower> i will tinker with it
<_MMA_> This can really take 2 mins if you stay with me.
<starsunflower> k
<_MMA_> I need more info that "k". Do you have the text saved?
<SiDi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/Desktop
<SiDi> This palette isn't official, is it ?
<starsunflower> k got it
<starsunflower> text saved as folder_preview.py
<thorwil> SiDi: not, it's not official. it is DSMatthews
<starsunflower> no line numbers
<_MMA_> starsunflower: Whats the root dir of the folders you want peviewed?
<starsunflower> can I post forward slashes?
<starsunflower> media/path
<_MMA_> Put a space before it
<starsunflower>  /media/path
<_MMA_> That's literally it? :) Mot /media/Pictures or something?
<_MMA_> *Not
<starsunflower> yeah, I didn't put the whole path....
<Superdweeb> pht hptertjrepworewjtpwrje
<starsunflower> i'm running a vm right now where this chat window is
<Superdweeb> PUT THE WHOLE PATH
<starsunflower> and don't have abilty to copy and paste the path
<Superdweeb> you don't?
<_MMA_> Superdweeb: I got it.
<starsunflower> and you have to go....
<Superdweeb> you know what the world needs?
<_MMA_> starsunflower: Ok. Just means a bit more on you. 1 sec.
<_MMA_> Superdweeb: I got the situation. I don't need help.
<Superdweeb> computers that can run multiple operating systems, symultaniously, at the same root level.
<starsunflower> I have my notes open, lol
<SiDi> Superdweeb: one OS with several terminals is enough :P
<Superdweeb> um, I saw this super cool concept.
<_MMA_> starsunflower: Ok so assuming you saved the file in your home dir do: python folder_preview.py -R /media/path/to/root/dir
<_MMA_> (in a terminal that is)
<Superdweeb> you booted the computer into a pre-boot area with icons like user accounts , except it was a OS switcher, and each os was fully booted up, like gdm sessions.
<starsunflower> k
<starsunflower> i think I could get help if I have probs
<starsunflower> the path i don't get
<starsunflower>   /media/my path/then don't get to root dir
<_MMA_> Its the top-level dir containing the folders you want thumbnailed.
<starsunflower> ok, so i just put in the path there
<starsunflower> that's easy
<_MMA_> starsunflower: If there's spaces in the path "/quote/the/path"
<starsunflower> i don't use spaces
<starsunflower> everything either has a - or _
<starsunflower> for some reason i have done it that way for a long time
<_MMA_> So here's my command to set my album covers as folder images: python set_covers.py -R /media/Multimedia/Audio/FLAC/
<_MMA_> That way, when I go into an artists folder, it shows the album as a folder.
<starsunflower> do you have to run that script every time?
<starsunflower> or it just defaults to that
<_MMA_> Yes. It's not automatic.
<starsunflower> k, no prob
<starsunflower> sweet...
<starsunflower> thank you so much for your time...
<starsunflower> :)
<_MMA_> starsunflower: To reverse this delete the files in: ~/.nautilus/metafiles
<starsunflower> k
<_MMA_> Just a bunch of .xml links.
<_MMA_> Ok. Time to go.
<starsunflower> thanks again!!
<starsunflower> :D
<starsunflower> tata
<Superdweeb> ah banged my head on the ceiling...
<Superdweeb> dammit.
<kwwii> ouch
<kwwii> don't do that
<Superdweeb> it wasn't quite the ceiling.
<Superdweeb> it was a mini-chandelier hanging from it.
<Superdweeb> my mom is so short, she puts her chair right beneath it.
<Superdweeb> I sat down, stood up, end of story.
<thorwil> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Guidelines/Software is among my victims now, too
<thorwil> but just realized Blender should be in there. anyone feels like adding it? i gotta go now, good night! :)
<dashua> http://picpaste.com/Screenshot_8.png , http://picpaste.com/Screenshot-1_1.png
<dashua> Opinions, the latter needs some work
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-04-04
<meoblast001> hi
<ScorpKing> hi guys. where can i find the svg versions of all the *ubuntu logo's?
<ScorpKing> nvm. found it on wikipedia
<SiDi> Is the wiki down ?
<SiDi> i cant get on it..
 * SiDi hopes his ISP didn't decide to ALSO block port 443...
<thorwil> SiDi: same here, since hours
<SiDi> ok, feeling relieved then :P
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-04-05
<thorwil> kwwii: hi! is it on purpose that the form for new stuff in Incoming uses https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/PageTemplate and not https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/SubmissionTemplate ?
<savvas> thorwil: maybe it's better for searching purposes - I mean, from personal experience I've done the same thing so that the template wouldn't show up in some category searches :)
<thorwil> savvas: i don't quite follow. it looks like there we have a template that isn't used at all
<savvas> ah wait, there are no categories
<savvas> never mind, I thought the reason was the same as in my case - looks like it's not :P
<thorwil> does John Baer ever hang out here?
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-04-05
<vish> dashua: hehe , you were just having fun , werent ya > http://launchpadlibrarian.net/42237268/out.ogv  ;p
<dashua> vish, Ha yeah.  Just a bit.  Was demonstrating the metacity fixes on the button bg's. :)
<dashua> The fix is my PPA if it hasn't hit Lucid yet.
<vish> yeah , that was a good fix
<darkmatter> vish: have you seen the new "Metro" ui for the widows phone 7 series? it looks pretty slick
<darkmatter> windows*
<vish> darkmatter: yeah , _sabdfl_ had blogged about it too o.0
 * darkmatter likes
<darkmatter> especially the tile flipping thing that lets you do crazy stuff like flip over a contact and text them on the back of their card
<vish> darkmatter: is there a vid or a working version? i just read the slides
<vish> s/or/of
<darkmatter> vish: I haven't seen one around, but I'm still looking
<darkmatter> found a promo video, but those don't count :P
<darkmatter> vish: found one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dM4X-KveSs
<vish> ty
<darkmatter> np
 * vish for some reason cant stop laughing when he looks at steve ballmer ;p
<darkmatter> I've always leaned toward that more 'webby' feel in ui metaphors, probably explains why I like that ui so much :P
<darkmatter> vish: that phone reveal actually shows a decent example of what I'm talking about when I ramble on about data convergence. take their pictures library for example. regardless of the source, all pictures are shown their. be they flickr, live, facebook, locally stored, whatever
<vish> ah
<vish> i like the live title , they seem to work pretty well
<vish> live tiles*
<darkmatter> vish: basically, aside from the hated but necessary web-browsery-thingy, I think the internet should be provided as a service/framework and should be plugged in to the user environment at more of a core level, and various bit's are sorted to where they should be according to what they are
<vish> darkmatter: internet should be free and unlimited ;)  .. even on phones..  i think finland made broadband a basic right
<darkmatter> and not just personal data/networking/etc, web searches, mapping, et al
<darkmatter> vish: aye
<darkmatter> vish: but you get the picture I should think
<vish> darkmatter: yeah , that is actually how everything should work..  no need to forget when i left/stored my whatever files
<sanderqd> that's more easily solved by just putting everything in the web browser than by 'plugging the internet in the desktop'
<darkmatter> vish: like one of the ideas I borrowed and modified conceptually. the whole enzo/ubiquity thingy, but as the run dialog. think of something like do, but not limited to local crap
 * vish bbiab
<darkmatter> sanderqd: if by 'easy' you mean 'lazy' then yeah. :P but the networking bit is only a part of the whole. I've been wasting my time on the design and engineering long enough to state with utmost certainty that browser = fail in this specific case (and most others). the reason being something about "half-assed implementations" ;)
<sanderqd> darkmatter: google also has quite some experience with design and engineering :-)
<darkmatter> never said they didn't. I said specifics vary. it's all about the implementation. google is cloud crazy because google wants to control the ebb and flow of data ;)
<vish> darkmatter: interesting ui > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3OUG93qZ0Q&feature=channel
<darkmatter> a fan ui. that is cool. only potential drawback I can think of is that it is perhaps too linear
<vish> weirdly though i'm right-handed , i find holding the phone in my left hand more easier o.0
<darkmatter> vish: http://www.fallon.com/skimmer
<darkmatter> vish: it's nothing earthshattering, but it looks like a nice app
<vish> darkmatter: ah! i was wondering what awesomeness i was missing... looks nice indeed :)
<darkmatter> vish: plus the customizable summary page. nommy.
<dashua> vish, Are the action arrow icons getting changed to the new folder color?  Looks a little inconsistent with the old Humanity orange.
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-04-06
<vish> kwwii: ^ ??
<darkmatter> vish: resuming sonar refinements: http://www.flickr.com/photos/92826085@N00/4496881672/sizes/o/ yes, no, maybe, arghh your eyes?
<knome> iainfarrell, hey, you there?
<iainfarrell> hey knome
<iainfarrell> how are you?
<knome> iainfarrell, i'm fine. is there any news about the complete typeface?
<knome> iainfarrell, or is there some font that is to be used as placeholder before the font is released?
<iainfarrell> knome: so the work is still ongoing and we won't have it in a state we can give out for a little while yet
<iainfarrell> what are you wanting to do?
<knome> for some release banners, for example
<iainfarrell> right
<knome> "coming soon"
<knome> "download now"
<iainfarrell> best thing to do would be make a list of requirements so we can recommend a font or make things for you if they're small
<iainfarrell> gotcha
<knome> just those phrases in svg like the xubuntu typeface would be really really great
<knome> if you still can't let the font out :)
<iainfarrell> ok
<iainfarrell> mail me so I have it in my inbox and I'll talk with Malcolm here
<knome> i think those would be useful for the other derivatives as well
<knome> i'll do that right now
<iainfarrell> one of the issues is that if we let it out we can never keep control of it
<iainfarrell> so even though it's almost usable
<iainfarrell> the designers are asking us to keep it close until they're finished
<iainfarrell> and we only get one go at this so we have to be careful
<knome> yeah i understand. no problem with that :)
<knome> i suppose it's okay to cc the people from london?
<thorwil> http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/data/2002/09/01/weekly_wallpaper/images/wp_large_20020901.3.jpg
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-04-07
<__mikem> Hey, I have an improved version of the Radiance theme that i called Briliance. I want to show it to you guys and see if you would be willing to include it in the final release of Lucid
<__mikem> anyone?
<troy_s> __mikem: Not really the decision of anyone hwere.
<troy_s> __mikem: And 'improved' is, as I am sure you are aware, relative.
<__mikem> well, wanna just give the theme a spin, and see if you like it?
<troy_s> __mikem: No. I don't really mind either way.
<__mikem> http://www.mediafire.com/?itjeujdyz45 <-- heres the .tar.gz file that contains my theme if you want to have a look
<mrandrzejak> Hi all! Was there a decision made on the Lucid countdown banners?
<vish> darkmatter: the green progress bar , seems stuck in between neither being light-n-shiny or being dark'n'sexy ;)
<vish> have you tried making it similar to the top bar?
<darkmatter> no. not yet. still mucking around with other widgets
<vish> darkmatter: the rest look good though :)
<darkmatter> neat. even zune goes 'metro' (aesthetically). I'm suspecting windows 8 will be the most metro thing since unisex handbags :P
<vish> darkmatter: zune was metro actually , they hadnt mentioned it as metro , probably since it was not as complete as the phone
<darkmatter> ahh
<vish> heh , probably no one bought a zune ;p
<vish> darkmatter: if you had seen the links troy had been posting for a long time , the phone wouldnt have been very surprising ;)
<darkmatter> the newest version of the zune desktop looks smokin' hot
<darkmatter> the phone wasn't surprising. it was sex in pixels :P
<darkmatter> microsoft finally came up with a design direction I like ;)
<darkmatter> vish: you know my views about aesthetic minimalism and maximum immersion. I've ranted you into migraines about that crap for years :P
<vish> oh , not that again !
 * vish runs
<knome> :P
<vish> ;p
<darkmatter> vish: but yeah, I'll have to dig through my irc logs for troy_s "what, you actually _like_ that look?" (rough translation of his wtf reaction to something we discussed ages ago), then I can send him a "kiss my ass, everyone else likes it now too! c'mon, pucker up! :D" IM bomb xD
<vish> darkmatter: oh , did you mention it ?  /me doesnt recall ... not documented , no credit ;p
<vish> darkmatter: someone must have read the channel logs , and ripped you off ;)
<darkmatter> vish: it was about "the next trend in aesthetics" troy_s was all "woodgrain or bust!!". I was more rational, after years of plastic and glass, big flat and chunky seemed a more logical progression
<darkmatter> vish: did I say ripped of? no, I said 'wood my ass" :P
<vish> darkmatter: damn! troy isnt here to reply :s
 * vish  mails channel logs to troy
<darkmatter> I had linked a dA screenshot or something like that. must search teh google
<darkmatter> vish: awwww... c'mon. admit it. you love it when you're right too ;)
<vish> darkmatter: if troy were here, it would be more fun to watch you slug it out with him! ;)  no matter who is right or not ;p
<darkmatter> vish: I wish he was. I'm in a playful "in your face!" mood :D that's what happens when I consume WAYYY too much coffee :P
<darkmatter> don't get me wrong. troy_s is awesome. but he's more opinionated than the opinion committee, which is why I want to pick on him right now xD
 * darkmatter stuffs a hyperactive hamster down the back of vishs undies :O
<darkmatter> vish: I have mastered themeing the new nautilus :O
<vish>  new nautilus is ?$@
<zniavre_> good afternoon
<darkmatter> vish: 2.30.0 has some pretty funky changes. thus the "new" comment
<darkmatter> vish: anyway. no more "Nautilus looks like crap" :D  http://www.flickr.com/photos/92826085@N00/4499915830/
<vish> ah , nice
 * vish will steal darkmatter's gtkrc once he is done ;)
<darkmatter> ;o
<darkmatter> vish: that's technically what this gtkrc is for, and it's why I'm currently just tweaking sonar instead of spending a bazillion hours finish up all of my themes. basically it's to create a generic template
<darkmatter> vish: because I wuv you you get the nautilus code ;p http://pastebin.ca/1857769
<vish> darkmatter: thanks :)
<darkmatter> vish: np. just maintain the class orders. nautilus is a picky bugger. but otherwise season to taste :P
<vish> hehe , it has been literally nearly more than 3months since i tweaked a theme
 * vish needs more than 48hrs in a day :/
<darkmatter> lol
<thorwil> kwwii: in general, though i don't know how easy metacity would make that, the alternative to vector window buttons would be to do the same as with icons: a set of sizes
<kwwii> thorwil: indeed
<thorwil> hmm. http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/countdown
<thorwil> all perfect examples for the CoF-in-circle scaling problem. there should be another approach for small sizes
<thorwil> even just leaving the circle/CoF out would be better
<darkmatter> vish: now I'm playing with text styles http://www.flickr.com/photos/92826085@N00/4500093647/ :P
<vish> darkmatter: nice wallpaper :)
<darkmatter> ty
<islington> thorwil: would leaving it out even be allowed? wouldnt that be tampering with a logo?
<thorwil> islington: there is a problem, there should be a solution. ideally an official one, of course, bu there's nothing sacred about this still not wrapped up logo-type
<kwwii> the honest to goodness truth is that things are simply not completely ready yet
<kwwii> we do not want to start putting things out in bits and pieces without the information on usage, etc
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-04-08
<vish> !test
<ubottu> hrm?
<vish> argh!
<thorwil> unexpected result
<vish> my damn ISP is down! i cant access http or bzr :/
<vish> i though all access was off but i can irc :(
<vish> thought*
<thorwil> ah, so the only the worst of the 3 still works for you!
<vish> exactly.. :s
<knome> wot? the BEST of the three.
 * darkmatter is having a kludge.org discussion :D
<darkmatter> errr... xorg. I always misspell that
<kwwii> http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/countdown is done!
<thorwil> i vaguely recall i pasted that link yesterday ;)
<kwwii> lol
<thorwil> lol. i'm creating my profile on behance.net. selected country Germany. enter "MÃ¶nchengladbach" for City. can't save the profile because behance demands a City form a fixed list of completions they offer. they don't even know DÃ¼sseldorf. should have tried Cologne, everyone seems to know that one
<kwwii> lol
<kwwii> I often find sites which are lacking in country info
<kwwii> lots of sites are only set up to deal with american addresses as well
<thorwil> sure, but i think that's the first time i see City as anything but a free-form entry
<kwwii> yeah, true
<darkmatter> ahhh... much more consistent now, plus better visibility on inactive tabs!
<darkmatter> kwwii: thorwil: vish: which do you think looks better, http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/7913/screenshotey.png or http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/733/screenshot1jf.png ?
<akgraner> Hi!  I am probable about to ask a question that is annoying as "is it out yet" so forgive me - but will the new font be ready on the 29th released sooner?  just curious looking at redoing the font part of the Ubuntu Women Project Logo
<akgraner> probably  even
<akgraner> spelling fail today :-(
<vish> darkmatter: /me blind right now .. ISP fail :/
<darkmatter> :/
<kwwii> akgraner: I do not think that the font will be ready in time for lucid
<kwwii> akgraner: we will have logos ready but not the whole font
<kwwii> darkmatter: I prefer the one without the toolbar line/bg
<thorwil> darkmatter: ^ same
<darkmatter> ok. thanies :)
<akgraner> kwwii, ahh ok :-) cool I only need the b, e, m, n, o, t, u , and w   hehe :-D  (just teasing)  thank you I appreciate the quick answer  - you all rock!!!
<darkmatter> http://www.flickr.com/photos/92826085@N00/4502433153/
<darkmatter> I'm considering changing the roundness for menu items to 1 pixel though
<kwwii> darkmatter: I think that would be an improvement
<akgraner> kwwii, ping got 5 mins? mind a PM?
<darkmatter> bleh. I'd love to keep rounded menu items, but the bloody gtk devs can't seem to include a basic algorithm in the core to round the corners on the menus themselves, lol
<darkmatter> haha! crispy listview headers :D http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/1153/screenshotoq.png
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-04-09
<bioshox> Hey Guy's
<bioshox> I need a little bit of help
<knome> bioshox, probably better to just ask :P
<bioshox> hha :P
<bioshox> Well, I@m just confused at how you actually add artwork or propose it to Ubuntu D:
<bioshox> I'm*
<knome> see the wiki page for artwork
<bioshox> How do you submit to it? Iv looked there but there are no immediate instructions on how to submit
<knome> eg., for lucid, you should create a subpage for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Lucid
<knome> i think you need to be logged in to be able to add attachments
<bioshox> I read on the Ubuntu forums that you ask what people think here then they will get it submitted, but thank's I'll give that ago :3!
<knome> you're always free to submit proposals
<bioshox> Okay, thankyou :)
<knome> no problem
<thorwil> the forum seems to be quite good as breeding ground for misinformation
<knome> misinf.? ;)
<bioshox> Yeah, if it's not official it's probably incorrect
<darkmatter> elky: kwwii: vish: http://www.flickr.com/photos/92826085@N00/4504866485/ :O
<kwwii> darkmatter: I like the dark top better than the light
<kwwii> otherwise you make you life soooo hard just for dark menus
<darkmatter> kwwii: well. the light isn't the correct shade. it will be tweaked and unified with the menubar. they'll look roughly the same shades as the combobox as far as the gradient goes
<darkmatter> but yeah. I like the dark better two. just started on them about 15 minutes before uploading that ;p
<kwwii> cool
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-04-10
<krabador> i look many really great ideas.... i can't think about next ubuntu theme, is the worse possibile.... i don't focus about right or left buttons, but colors and other things are really bad, i think developers have drinked their brains
<darkmatter> there we go. now the only thing that remains is to make buttons to replace the ones I temporarily borrowed from elementary. http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/9329/screenshotzxp.png
<darkmatter> it's a shame we cant specify controls per window type. I'd love for dialogs like that to use window-close-symbolic
<troy_s> darkmatter: Erm you can't define a class for the dialogs?
<darkmatter> troy_s: well, kinda, but sub-themeing metacity is even more hackish than gtk
<troy_s> darkmatter: Have to say though, that typeface is ... Tangoiffic? LOL.
<darkmatter> no. that typeface is architecturally awesome
<troy_s> darkmatter: Ok. We will beg to differ on that front. It's a cliched art-decoesque nightmare.
<troy_s> darkmatter: Not saying that art-deco can't come back. Just that it really has poor colour at that size.
<troy_s> darkmatter: Maybe as the display face? Body copy it needs a better pairing.
<darkmatter> no. I just need to patch freetype
<darkmatter> troy_s: that font is a classic btw. so don't be insulting the work of richard neutra ;o
<troy_s> darkmatter: I am _strictly_ speaking of context.
<darkmatter> bah, I'm speaking from "it's the only non-bitmap compact typeface that looks good for me at small sizes and that I can stare at for months at a time without my eyes bleeding." <-- there. context. :P
<troy_s> darkmatter: Hey cool. Good to see you haven't lost your teeth dark.
<darkmatter> troy_s: never have, hopefully never will ;)
<darkmatter> troy_s: but anyway. defining classes for metacity is a royal pain compared to gtk. I would _like_ to be able to set buttons images/colors/text (or lack thereof) based exclusively on dialog type (and matched to the appropriate gtkrc hacks), but it seems metacity is still a bit primative in some of those aspects
<troy_s> darkmatter: As an aside, I actually think it is a rather interesting face when it's bolded - the time date for example. Is that a mock?
<troy_s> darkmatter: Because I can't say I have ever been able to see the time / date like that.
<darkmatter> config/properties dialogs I'd like to blend the deco with the gtk, no menu button, and just a window-close-symbolic styled close button plus title. dialogs that require interaction just have a window-close-symbolic (like the logout/shutdown dialogs. they shall be black when the mod gtkrc is done, I'd also like to kill the title on them),
<darkmatter> troy_s: nope. that's a custom format string in gconf
<troy_s> darkmatter: Oh cool. So you stuff a newline in there?
<darkmatter> yup
<troy_s> darkmatter: Interesting.
<darkmatter> troy_s: I have the format string set to: <span size="larger">%l:%M</span> <span size="smaller" color="#AABDAA">%p</span>%n<span size="smaller" color="#AABDAA">%B %e</span> and the format itself to custom. you can do even crazier stuff
<troy_s> darkmatter: So you can control the weight loosely too?
<darkmatter> troy_s: yup. and spacing. you just need to experiment a bit. it's kinda hit/miss. but by way of experimentation to see just how flexible it was, I had tried this: http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/3408/screenshotni.png
<troy_s> darkmatter: That stacking of the Date / time is very interesting. It's an interesting look - especially considering the era of high density screens.
<darkmatter> yup
<troy_s> darkmatter: _that_ is an asstastic face in that corner. It's like an eaglebold wannabe. What is that?
<troy_s> darkmatter: Is that the same???
<troy_s> darkmatter: Sheet. It's the same.
<troy_s> darkmatter: Looks quite a bit different with more text in it.
<troy_s> darkmatter: And wtf is up with the kerning pair on that W e.
<darkmatter> troy_s: yes. it's neutra text
<troy_s> darkmatter: I guess that's the colour symptom noted above. Wow. Looks completely strange - is that your hinting level foobaring it possibly?
<troy_s> darkmatter: You set to slight?
<darkmatter> troy_s: the kerning issue is related to the dpi/pt/hinting I'm using. unfortunately :/
<troy_s> darkmatter: What hinting ist hat?
<darkmatter> troy_s: I'd have it at slight. but I haven't installed the patched freetype yet, so it's at none
<darkmatter> and I _still_ use monaco as my monospace. awesome font
<darkmatter> metacity really needs simplified drawing operations. the non-classed version of the theme I'm working on is 457 lines. I fear the length of the revised version since I'll have to execute drawing ops on a per class basis, so ~1000 lines would be a fair guess
<troy_s> darkmatter: It heads into a side note. HTML5 / CSS is wonderful but proponents fail to address the need of the audience in question - artists and designers.
<troy_s> darkmatter: Flash got a foothold because the design toolset was strictly aimed at intermediate level artists and designers with regards to technical aptitude.
<darkmatter> yeah
<troy_s> darkmatter: As a result, the toolset (which is quite functional) allowed for extremely rapid uptake (not as easy as say a hobby grade application but faster than say, Nuke, Maya, or even Photoshop)
<troy_s> darkmatter: It is a factor that we fail to see in Free Software when it comes to who _should_ the audience be for a given piece of software / library. It is one thing to offer the functionality, it is another to get it into the hands of the people that can harness it.
<troy_s> darkmatter: If the CSS idea ever makes it to full fruition in GNOME, it is quite a brilliant move.
<troy_s> darkmatter: For that very reason.
<darkmatter> troy_s: indeed
<troy_s> darkmatter: That said, to be truly fruitful, there needs to be a software set of visual design tools. Designed for the same audience that uses tools such as Photoshop, Illustrator, etc. Take those interface patterns and apply it to that new tool.
<troy_s> darkmatter: The net sum result will yield near immediate benefits.
<thorwil> not enough people understand the value of Flash as an authoring tool
 * thorwil thinks low x-height rather speaks against Neutra as screen font
<darkmatter> cool. I can define a style for all window types, but I'll have to define a complete sub-theme for each style_set in the .xml. looks like the 1000 line estimate falls short by about 200 lines of code ;D
<thorwil> darkmatter: can't you just write a window manager in 1200 lines instead? ;)
<darkmatter> thorwil: that would depend on the individual. it 'works for me' as they say. but give me ten years, I'll be switching to 16 point droid sans :P
<troy_s> thorwil: Agree on Flash. It's a craptastic format and a craptastic application in many regards, but for the given audience (namely independent 'all-in-one' types) it serves as an invaluable asset.
<darkmatter> thorwil: lol. probably, and with all the needed themeing built in instead of epic amounts of crap to accomplish basic goals. that probably explains why no one has done a per-window-type theme yet
<thorwil> troy_s: i worked with versions 4 and 5. scripting in 4 sucked, but I wouldn't call 5 craptastic. the movie-in-movie concept is beautiful
<troy_s> thorwil: There are serious shortcomings (like scripting - but the bulk of the audience likely finds it 'good' as they aren't coder types) but it _really_ nails the market it aims at.
<troy_s> thorwil: I dare say that _that_ is the reason Flash is everywhere - the people laying out the sites can create stuff faster than in CSS / HTML. Some might not even know CSS / HTML.
<troy_s> thorwil: Which is a serious argument for _our_ community to step up and deliver solid design tools for those grades of audiences.
<troy_s> thorwil: Namely the hobbyist 'all in oner'. There is room for a killer-app among CSS / HTML5 creation. Dare I say we may see one from Apple soon.
<troy_s> thorwil: And watch the migration flow.
<thorwil> troy_s: recently i wondered if one could start with Pharo Smalltalk and turn it into a viable authoring tool. current state has too many rough edges, at least visually
<troy_s> thorwil: Of course, buried under the skin will be some more of that patented lock in with some hidden functionality buried inside.
<troy_s> thorwil: RAD CSS / HTML5. There's a deal breaker right there.
<troy_s> thorwil: Borrowing from the toolset that audience uses already (hello Flash - looking at you)
<troy_s> thorwil: By 'borrowing' I mean obviously to use the same layouts (or have a layout by default) that supports the exact same mental model they have built up.
<thorwil> troy_s: funny thing is, i would want to avoid one of the effects Flash has. saw it with my fellow students 5+ years ago. where i created html/css and used the entire screen, they would go and throw something together in flash. assuming a 800x600 screen, or something like that. all content in a small box, tiny text
<thorwil> not bookmarkable, no separately scalable text, no select/copy-able text and all that
<thorwil> bbl
<troy_s> amen
<darkmatter> troy_s: it would be nice if you could more specific classes in metacity though, as not all apps follow the rules in a sensible way. for example. capplets: they id as normal windows (which they are) but they are _technically_ configuration dialogs, so should follow dialog definitions in the .xml
<darkmatter> silliness
<darkmatter> plus there's also the third party crap that's about as predictable as a squirrel on a sugar rush
<darkmatter> oh well. maybe the client-side decorator will fix that *shrug*
<knome> thorwil, http://emonk.fi/open/xubuntu/Official%20logo/Lucid+/mouse-curvy-tail-2d.png
<knome> thorwil, what do you think of that?
<thorwil> knome: the tail starts too fat and the curves are slightly off (as in: there's a variation in thickness that shouldn't be there)
<knome> thorwil, general appearacne?
<thorwil> knome: otherwise that's seems to be a reasonable way to get the mouse into the circle
<thorwil> knome: note that this makes it look static, the mouse is not running
<knome> yes.
<knome> that's true
<thorwil> knome: i don't think this can compete with the mouse at the bottom of the logo-type. it might be a reasonable addition/alternative
<knome> from what i gather from others, they think the opposite
<thorwil> knome: i can't help them, then. with this approach, you run into scaling issues again
<darkmatter> knome: cute. also a nice way to do icons in general. I'm a long standing proponent of glyphic representations who is being tormented by being stuck with little blobs of color. lol
<darkmatter> I really must make a theme
<knome> thorwil, that's true, but even then, the situation is a lot better what we used to have with the exact xfce mouse.
<thorwil> knome: combine this with "ubuntu" and place above the mouse-at-bottom variant for a direct comparison at the same scale
<thorwil> louder tends to sound better. similar can be had with larger
<knome> thorwil, i very well see your point, the this one is more attractive in bigger sizes, imo
<darkmatter> I used to have a generic icon for all web browsers when I was playing with metaphors (that made sense). it was 2 pix cornered and had a web spreading out from the upper left corner
<knome> thorwil, http://emonk.fi/open/xubuntu/Official logo/Lucid+/comparison.png
<thorwil> knome: no wonder. #6 needs the tail fixed to be similar to #2s tail. mouse could be larger
<darkmatter> kill craptasic metaphors. everyone with a computer knows what the web is. what better heuristically neutral metaphor for accessing it than a web? ;D
<knome> thorwil, so could be the circle in #7.
<knome> thorwil, (bigger)
<thorwil> knome: no. would become too heavy and you should not start with the geometry of the original ubuntu logo to then mess it up ;)
<thorwil> i mean, as unhappy as i am with the circle, its size is clearly not random
<knome> that's true, but regarding to iain, we are free to use any size circle if we want, and if it looks good, then why nor.
<knome> *not
<thorwil> salad lies in that direction
<thorwil> knome: anyway, i think you should eliminate #1 to #4 and maybe also #5
<thorwil> i would still run with #6 and not look back
<knome> maybe.
<knome> we are still pretty much brainstorming.
<thorwil> mouse, trap, dirt, cheese, cat, tom an jerry, queak, women jumping unto chairs?
<knome> nah
<troy_s> knome: Is that for Xub?
<vish> huh , probably i'm the only one who thinks thorwil's mouse looks like a sperm
<vish> http://www.scienceprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/sperm.jpg
<vish> especially 1 is nearly like the sperm entry with the tail left outside :s
<thorwil> vish: so you are in a reproduction-oriented mindset? ;)
<vish> ;p
<thorwil> vish: actually that thought occurred to me even before i finished the mouse. but so what? every sperm is sacred!
<thorwil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0kJHQpvgB8
<vish> thorwil: the first image got me thinking like that mainly, > http://legacy.owensboro.kctcs.edu/GCaplan/anat2/notes/ha5lf2902a_a.jpg
<vish> looks like xfce in just impregnated Ubuntu ;p
<vish> or something else did ;)
<knome> troy_s, yeah
<troy_s> knome: Why not play with figure ground relationships on an x?
<troy_s> knome: What is the context?
<knome> troy_s, "the context" ?
<knome> :P
<knome> we're brainstorming the new xubuntu logo
<troy_s> knome: Yes. Nothing exists in a vacuum. Where is it used? What is its purpose?
<knome> everywhere?
<troy_s> knome: What size?
<knome> every
<troy_s> knome: Can't use it everywhere. If there is a superlative, there is often the chance for error.
<troy_s> knome: We have done that long enough and failed I'd suggest.
<troy_s> knome: Miserably.
<knome> most of those won't work in small sizes, but that's recognised
<troy_s> knome: Who cares about small sizes? Egads.
<troy_s> knome: So for an entry image on a webpage?
<knome> ... as a logo everywhere the logo is supposed to appear
<knome> and where the text is not doable, the image part
<troy_s> knome: Context on size? If you are talking something in the 300+ pixel domain, that is likely well ... simplistic?
<knome> depends.
<troy_s> knome: Depends is better than everywhere. :)
<troy_s> knome: Let me be clearer - where is the primary touchpoint for it at this point?
<knome> probably all the artwork needed in the distro
<knome> and the website
<troy_s> knome: So then, do you think that image has enough emotional weight to be a high visibility image on a website?
<knome> some of those do, some of them not.
<knome> the simplest stuff would work in small sizes, but i'm not sure if the community will adopt those as their "own"
<troy_s> knome: Erm... the mouse in a circle.
<troy_s> knome: Was what I was speaking of. Apparently I missed a few links. :)
<knome> which one of those?
<knome> troy_s, http://emonk.fi/open/xubuntu/Official%20logo/Lucid+/comparison.png
<troy_s> knome: Begs playing with figure ground as a guess. Just at least as a starting point.
<troy_s> knome: I don't quite get the mouse either... but alas... that's just an old idiot.
<knome> troy_s, the xfce logo includes a mouse
<troy_s> knome: That's super. I don't really get that. ;)
<knome> troy_s, to be exact, the mouse in #3
<troy_s> knome: Yes. I have seen it.
<knome> since that one is pretty playful at least, the one in #6 would be a bid departure.
<knome> the one in #7 is more in the same style imo
<troy_s> knome: What is the purpose of it?
<troy_s> ;)
<knome> of what?
<knome> the mouse?
<troy_s> knome: The logo.
<knome> troy_s, uh...
<troy_s> knome: You can make an effortless series of judgement calls that are rooted in deep complexity.
<troy_s> knome: Think about it before you answer.
<knome> this discussion goes too deep right now :P
<troy_s> knome: Not really.
<knome> for my brain, yes
<troy_s> knome: If you can't answer why one needs a logo, you likely aren't able to arrive at a conclusion that has merit.
<troy_s> knome: As in - what is it for? Why? If the answer is some loose thing like 'Look good', there be dragons.
<knome> the logo is supposed to be tied with the project/product so that whenever one sees the logo, he thinks of the product.
<troy_s> knome: And a spoon would do that.
<knome> what i am trying to say is that it's near midnight here
<troy_s> knome: In fact, using that, just about anything you do will do that. For better or worse.
<troy_s> knome: Get some sleep.
<knome> no, i will listen to music
<knome> i'm open for this discussion later, though tomorrow is a bad day since we have guests
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-04-11
<Drakeson> is there a command that I can issue after I modify gtkrc to make the change happen?
<ttk1opc> Is there a place to report bugs in the new lynx theme?
<vish> hmm , wasnt Hanso theme done by dashua?
<thorwil> vish: i think yes
<vish> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnBaer/SandBox has the wrong author then
<directhex> where can i find the font for the new lucid logo?
<knome> directhex, nowhere yet
<directhex> gah
<directhex> how "yet" is "nowhere yet"?
<knome> it is not ready, thus not published.
<directhex> hm. well that's my weekend plans rather altered, then
<knome> :P
<knome> congrats
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-04-04
<coz_>  good day all
<dashua> vish, I've tried all sorts of widgets/classes for that FF bug with no luck, may need a user .css file to fix it
<dashua> It definitely is fg[INSENSITIVE]
<vish> dashua: hey, yea.. seems stupid of FF to use a few items under Mozilla namespace and the rest from theme :s
<dashua> Yeah, I use chromium <3, but FF has been a theming issue for years
<vish> dashua: chromimum is no better with themes ;p
<vish> dashua: look at its scrollbar ;p
<dashua> Ha yeah
<vish> and the inactive tab is brighter than the active one ;)
<dashua> You check trunk for light-themes?
<coz_> there are definitly moments during a year when things seems to go backwards or stay at a stand still
<dashua> Chromium looks quite nice
<dashua> The scrollbar is still an issue
<vish> dashua: yea, i had those matches already.. :)
<dashua> Ah nice
<vish> thorwil: http://www.flickr.com/photos/j_baer/5560807769/in/photostream/ Â« wow!! the lengths he is going to make it visible in Ubuntu-Gallery.. I doubt if he got permission from Izo; seeing that he has his own flickr profile Â» http://www.flickr.com/photos/designbyizo/ and izo specifically mentioning that he has no interest in taking part in contests..
 * vish shakes head and sods off 
<thorwil> vish: tell izo, but why tell me? ;)
<vish> hehe!
<vish> thorwil: nah, just mentioning to you.. the blog is on the planet so if Izo notices let him bother i guess..
<coz_> oo I sort of like that image
<coz_> kinda sorta
<coz_>  is this izo?   http://www.design-by-izo.com/tag/fonts/
<vish> yup
<coz_> older guy/
<coz_> ?
 * vish doesnt know.. 
<coz_> googling to find out
<thorwil> coz_: picture on that page is not him. this is: http://www.design-by-izo.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/hex-middrum_sharpened-800-cropped.jpg
<coz_> ah cool
<coz_> ah another drummer :)
<coz_> with a beard lol
<coz_> my kind of guy
<thorwil> coz_: you're a bearded drumming painter? ever combined all 3?
<coz_> thorwil,  mm  never the painter side to music ,, no :)
<thorwil> paint with beard while drumming
<coz_> ah yes then make a you tube video,, and become famous  :)
<coz_> i will start each video with "hey tubers"
<thorwil> if you develop a small fan following first, you can then become a sellout, otherwise that path is closed ;)
<coz_> :)
<coz_> I like some of this izo's work
<coz_> wait a minute,, hey  is this jbaer ??
<vish> coz_: are you asking if  izo == jbaer ?
<coz_> vish,  yeah but apparenlty I am wrong
<coz_> huh,, i just noticed that stuff on flickr is already copyrighted
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-04-05
<coz_>  good day to all
<Ronnie> hey coz_
<coz_> Ronnie,  hey guy
<Ronnie> coz_: i created a mockup (http://ubuntuone.com/p/kvg/) for the packagning guide from dholbach http://daniel.holba.ch/temp/guide/index.html . are you an designer and have feedback for it?
<coz_> Ronnie,  well I am artist.. if that is what you mean... and let me look hol on
<coz_> Ronnie,  the layout looks nice,, :)
<Ronnie> thx coz_ , any feedback on it?
<coz_> Ronnie,  well,, other than its appearance,, the page layout,,  which is real nicely done,  the information looks correct,..  this is going to be the replacement for  the second link you linked ot?
<Ronnie> yes, i hope so. i made the design, lets hope some 'coders' start working. some started already, but had no sense of styling
<Ronnie> coz_: if you want i have another one for our local forum: http://ubuntuone.com/p/ZrY/ as a replacement of http://forum.ubuntu-nl.org/index.php
<coz_> Ronnie,  comparing the two links,, yours is by far easy on the eyes...
<Ronnie> coz_: its indeed an improvement, but it does not feel 'right/finished' yet, but running out of ideas
<Ronnie> i had a lot of mockups for that page: http://wiki.ubuntu-nl.org/Artwork/Projecten/WebsiteTheme/Forum/FrontLayout but none of them is the way i want it to be
<darkmatter> coz_: have you seen the new wip gnome site yet? it's fairly easy on the eyes and more inviting than the current piece of crap ;)
<coz_> Ronnie,  the second set of links,, the original is in a list form and yours in  categories... yours again is much "easier" on the eyes,, than the original,,, not sure how much improvement can be made with lists like this,,  I may not have an idea at the moment,, ooo I like that thrid link  with the red bands
<coz_> darkmatter,  no I h avent
<coz_> Ronnie,  the one with the red bands titling the category is much nicer :)
<Ronnie> the one with the 'non-round' corners?
<darkmatter> coz_: its an early bit. but I'm liking the direction:
<darkmatter> http://wptest.gnome.org/
<coz_> Ronnie,  and would be nice with those tiny background dots
<coz_> Ronnie,  no  this one  http://wiki.ubuntu-nl.org/Artwork/Projecten/WebsiteTheme/Forum/FrontLayout
<coz_> darkmatter,  huh!  I didnt even het a hint about this site  ,,,, nice
<Ronnie> somehow the round corners feel 'constrained' to me. like the title it 'locked-up'
<coz_> Ronnie,  then go with your feel of it
<coz_> Ronnie,   I didnt see the one with squared corners though
<darkmatter> coz_: yup. obviously far from done, but it's friendly and seems to suit gnome quite well
<coz_> Ronnie,   you mean this one ?  http://ubuntuone.com/p/ZrY/
<Ronnie> coz_: scroll down a bit on the last link. there are much more mockups
<Ronnie> http://wiki.ubuntu-nl.org/Artwork/Projecten/WebsiteTheme/Forum/FrontLayout
<coz_> Ronnie,  you're right !  I do prefer the sqared corners
<coz_> let me stare at these  a bit :)
<coz_> Ronnie,  well.. not sure now,,, the one with sqare corners is layed out symetrically,,, each category about the same veritical height,, the one with rounded corners looks a bit off  with the "Teams"  category being wider.. it isthrowing the symetry off,, the squared corners are "clean" looking..and seems more of a "separator"  for the categories,  the rounded edges seem more of a "title bar" or topic heading...not sure now which I like  :)
<coz_> Ronnie,  I would have to see that "red header"  as on the second one with the square edges   put on the rounded edge mockup..  this is going to be your call in the end  :)
<coz_> darkmatter,  oo  I am liking the simplicity of that one theme I am looking at :)
<coz_> darkmatter,    http://wptest.gnome.org/gnome-3/
<coz_> Ronnie,  but the header on all of the ones you showed have squared edges,, so maybe that is the best  ?
<Ronnie> im not sure, ill try to make a round corner variant of the 2nd
<darkmatter> coz_yes. adwaita is nice save for _1_ little problem. it's freaking huge. mentioned that to aday earlier (on how gigantic widgets and toolbers are actually detrimental to accessibility and usability. along with one or two small non-theme bits in 3). he said most of it is a bug
<coz_> Ronnie,  is the header a different orange than the category bars?
<coz_> darkmatter,  oh damn!.. why so huge?
<coz_> m gnome 3  still not quite ready in ubuntu !?!
<Ronnie> round corners is possible: dont know which is better, both are good i think: http://ubuntuone.com/p/l4H/
<Ronnie> the orange is supposed to be the same. i guess the header has some sort of tranparant white layer above it
<coz_> Ronnie,  that's nice :)  only one category header is rounded
<Ronnie> yes, so we can compare better
<coz_> Ronnie,  well I actually like the first one being rounded and the others squared :)
<coz_> Ronnie,  that would definitly be your call though
<darkmatter> coz_: an example: epiphany with menubar/toolbar has the same chrome height as firefox with menubar/toolbar/bookmarks bar _and_ tabs in current gen themes. that a 2x size ratio (approximately). and its consistent throughout the theme
<darkmatter> not sure the overall rational. I know part of it is just theme bugs. and it wouldn't be so bad if the ui elements scaled with text. the default font is pretty big, if you select _small_ in accessibility (small is around 8pt or so) the ui doesn't changfe. so i makes it seem even bigger
<darkmatter> small font. huge widgets :P
<coz_> darkmatter,  it doens scale with text??
<darkmatter> coz_: or another example of the scale of the theme. nautilus preferences dialog is approx 620 pixels in height. lol
<Ronnie> i even think it will be a total rewrite. i can do better if i have inspiration. other pages worked out well (http://ubuntuone.com/p/ezu/ (different site) and http://ubuntuone.com/p/ZrX/)
<darkmatter> coz_: nope. I dunno if its a limitation of the theme  itself, a gtk+3 bug, or other (haven't checked, lol) but what you see for dimensions and padding is what you get
<coz_> Ronnie,   these are all very nice  guy :).. I am flipping quickly between the variations.. as if I just went to the sites ,, switching back and forth,,  it seems I am with you on the squared edges...
<darkmatter> coz_: http://blogs.gnome.org/cosimoc/files/2011/03/scr1.png
<darkmatter> http://blogs.gnome.org/cosimoc/files/2011/03/scr2.png
<darkmatter> it's only _slightly_ obese.
<darkmatter> lol
<coz_> :)
<coz_> darkmatter,  what is the mixing of png  svg  there?
<darkmatter> coz_: the mockups he was using as reference for realizing the theme
<coz_> ah
<Ronnie> coz_: thx for thinking with me. if i have more (better) mockups ill be back for sure
<coz_> darkmatter,  is the final in svg ?
<darkmatter> coz_: can't complain about the look. it's no worse than a mac or a windows box, but damn. I need to sit 6 feet from my display xD
<coz_> Ronnie,  I would really like to see them :)  these are quite nice,,,
<coz_> darkmatter,  oh!!!  wow
<darkmatter> coz_: umm... it's mostly css iirc. I'll check in a bit. dling the latest live build atm, then burning and rebooting from cd to play around a bit
<coz_> darkmatter,  i would like to see a theme done solely in svg
<Ronnie> 16th april we have a 'late' ubuntu jam with a lot non-tech persons. Hope we can work on this theme :)
<coz_> Ronnie,  cool :)
<coz_> darkmatter,  I realize svg  can  be somewhat more resource intensive,, although  I am not sure how much more it would be in a theme or how "slow / bloated"  it would feel
<coz_> darkmatter,  I have to say,, that theme is very minimal and "Clear"
<coz_> sharp,,, easy looking
<darkmatter> coz_: but of course, you can tell its a fat theme from the nautilus screenie I linked. but its pretty nice. and clutter has finally restablized. so the shell runs again (and its lightning fast compared to gnome2 (at least judging by the speed of running live and vm)
<coz_> doesnt interfere with work,, although the "grey"  / "gray"  I'm not sure about
<coz_> if it came in colors..rather different values of gray maybe
<coz_> darkmatter,  I lke how this "fits the eye"  http://blogs.gnome.org/cosimoc/files/2011/03/scr2.png
<coz_> darkmatter,  very clean
<coz_> my eye is directed to the list of options and not the theme
<darkmatter> coz_: yeah. svg would be nice, but has (really, not joking) fairly crappy support in linux
<darkmatter> not just heavier resource usage, but renders somewhat poorly at the ui level
<coz_> darkmatter,  really?  wow I didnt realize that!
<coz_> darkmatter,  that's a disapointment
<darkmatter> yeah
<coz_> darkmatter,   on all platforms..however, svg is far more resource intensive  for sure,,
<coz_> darkmatter,  text to image   I suppose is the reason
<coz_> the calculations
<coz_> and then that is still rendered in bit map in the end if I am not mistaken
<darkmatter> coz_: aye. though surprisingly svg is pretty snappy on, dare I say i? dare I make you long for... *gasp*... yellow... TABS? :O
<coz_> lol
<coz_> oh  how I love window tabs :)
<coz_> that expance with test
<coz_> expand
<darkmatter> coz_: yup. but seriously, I thing the Be family (I'm saying family because of offshoots and cloning) had/have superior libraries for that. (not that I've actually compared mind you). yellow tabbiness was always about keeping things simple
<darkmatter> I mean, it only took one guy 4 hours to write the ui toolkit xD
<coz_> wow
<coz_> darkmatter,  yes ,, BeOs  had a real nice way of dealing with these things... very well done.. certainly fast and clean
<darkmatter> coz_: it was written for performance after all. I mean, time travel with me and remember the insane level of multitasking it endured
<coz_> darkmatter,  I definitly remember
<coz_> darkmatter,  and on low end systems no less
<darkmatter> not just media centric, but media _heavy_
<coz_> darkmatter,  smspillaz   also is a BeOs , Haiku fan,, we talked about the possible porting of compiz to haiku lol
<darkmatter> hehe
<coz_> darkmatter,  i would switch tomorrow if that happened :)
<coz_> except for damn java implimentation,, Be never did have that but it was way back when ,, I guess
<darkmatter> coz_: yup. the only thing I disliked about haiku was it's quest for binary compatibility... slows progress imo. but now they're caring less about '90s apps. more about modernizing it
<darkmatter> finally has a browser, and webkit based no less
<coz_> darkmatter,  oo  I suppose that's good
<coz_> darkmatter,  too bad the  BE people screwed things up..seriously,,, I would have never come to Ubuntu
<darkmatter> coz_: still doing it with a Be mentality, but at least they're aming for progress.
<darkmatter> the whole legacy thing is also what held amiga back (os 4 is like os 2 with better theming :P)
<darkmatter> yay. daily gnome3 finished downloading!
<coz_> nature call...be back in a bit
<darkmatter> coz_: check the conf-editor icon http://people.gnome.org/~jclinton/gnome3_screenshots/app_list.png
<darkmatter> actually, most of them are getting like that. crayola isn't what it used to be ;)
<darkmatter> I still dislike the style at smaller sizes, but the highres is nice.
<darkmatter> except for the fact that I loath empathy's new icon ;)
<coz_> darkmatter,  nice and all,, but in all honesty ,, I am not a fan of netbook stuff
<coz_> its too claustrophobic
<coz_> rather  clostrophobic
<darkmatter> coz_yeah. me neither.
<darkmatter> I was just referencing the icons
<darkmatter> but I'd definitely change metaphors for a lot of stuff
<darkmatter> like a message in a bottl for messaging instead of a speech balloon with a smilie. lol
<darkmatter> you know. more human metaphors, less artifical
<coz_> darkmatter,  for sure,, I would like some things to get beyong the "kids' view
<darkmatter> coz_: or make traditional metaphors more *fun*. like that friggin steel filing cabinet. make it a) wooden b) open drawer, slighlty messy c) a small mess of papers or whatnot scattered at its base
<coz_> darkmatter,  one day it will all mature,, at that point we will be " oh man I miss the days  when ... "  lol
<darkmatter> or inside jokes. like a slice of burnt toast for brasero. that or a drink coaster :P
<darkmatter> coz_: but you get what I mean
<coz_> darkmatter,  sure go :)  but they can keep brasero.. I dont like it
<coz_> let them do what they want with it
<coz_> darkmatter,  rather " sure do "
<darkmatter> coz_: the environment as a whole (and not just specific to gnome) is far too artificial
<darkmatter> everything feels like plastic. lol
<coz_> oh y eah,, that's it , make a statement and  leave !! lol
<coz_> darkmatter,  oh yeah that's it,, ,make a statement then leave  :)
<darkmatter> coz_: haha. server hating me doesn't equate to leaving :P
<coz_> darkmatter,   :)
<coz_> ok I have to break here,,  enough irc for now
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-04-06
<coz_>  good day to all
<coz_>     guys I have to break here  ,, I will try to be back in a while
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-04-07
<coz_>  good day all
<zniavre> good morning
<zniavre> im looking for the way to modify some widget (bg prelight of radio/check buttons ) inside a tab (notebook)?
<coz_>  good day all
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-04-08
<coz_>  hey all
<thorwil> ha, the countdown banners are totally narwhaled! http://www.ubuntu.com/community/countdown
<zniavre> the nÂ°1 is  wow
<vish> thorwil: i think someone just likes narwhals a *lot*..
<darkmatter> they probably sleep with plushy ones
<darkmatter> I could think of other possible remarks, but.... this channel is logged! ;p
<vish> darkmatter: we could kick ubuntulo1 for min ;p
<vish> *a min
<darkmatter> lol
<coz_> hey all
<Menopia> hi guys
<Menopia> i have a question and i don't know if this is its place or not
<coz_> Menopia,  hey guy
<coz_> Menopia,  what is it?
<Menopia> is this logo is according to the ubuntu standards https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EgyptTeam?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=ubuntueg.png
<coz_> looking
<coz_> Menopia,  its the correct font,, and looks to be the correct colurs
<coz_> Menopia,  what made you question it?
<Menopia> my team asked me to re-brand the logo and i made this
<Menopia> and i want to make sure its right
<Menopia> :)
<coz_> Menopia,  ah ok,,, did you use the official font and palette?
<Menopia> yes
<coz_> Menopia,  there you go :)  not much to get wrong then :)
<Menopia> ok thanks man :)
<coz_> Menopia,  what is the "eg"?
<Menopia> Egypt
<coz_> Menopia,  coool :)
<coz_> one the places close to the top of my list for places to see before I die
<Menopia> thanks man for your help, I gtg now
<coz_> ok
<zniavre> :o)
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-04-10
<acanthus> hello
<thorax> I'd like to make some designs or icons for ubuntu. Who I could contact?
<Lcawte> Me two, but I was thinking more along the lines of themes and non-photographic wallpapers, hmm, ok, themes, do they need to be coded?
<thorwil> Lcawte: while there are theme engines (that are coded), themes themselves are basically configuration files
<Lcawte> hmm
<Lcawte> I need to learn to use launchpad and ppa's :/
<thorwil> the easiest way to get into theming is taking an existing theme and modifying it
<thorwil> unfortunately, the whole area tends to be severely under-documented
<Lcawte> ugh
<Lcawte> I'm not a huge fan of reading lots of documentation, but this maybe something I would read
<thorwil> the changes towards gnome3 and unity might further complicate matters. i mean, it might be advisable to wait for the dust to settle
<thorwil> Lcawte: regarding backgrounds: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Documentation/Backgrounds
<Lcawte> I need a spare machine to test them on as well, this one is running a LAMP server and more, and it doesn't have the specs to be a decent testing machine as well
<thorwil> you perhaps already know the flickr pool: http://www.flickr.com/groups/ubuntu-artwork
<pentesilea> Lcawte: Did you already contact somebody
<Lcawte> pentesilea: about?
<pentesilea> Design
<Lcawte> no
<pentesilea> Do you know, how i could do this?
<Lcawte> pentesilea: I'm here asking the same things :P
<pentesilea> ok
<Lcawte> thorwil: I do know the pool, but it seems to be just photo backgrounds, I only have a few photos big enough/worthy of being a background, and I'm not too great at touching images up, or I don't have the GIMP plugins and stuff
<thorwil> Lcawte: perhaps useful if you get serious about wallpapers: http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2011/01/20/backtestground-explained/
<thorwil> Lcawte: i know that's the impression. but non-photo wallpapers are collected there, too
<thorwil> Lcawte: this cycle there was a new rule making sure the judges selected at least a few non-photo wallpapers from there
<Lcawte> I saw that
 * Lcawte subscribes to your blog
<thorwil> :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2012-04-08
<slavsan> hi all
<slavsan> I'm trying to modify the Boomerang theme and would want to make the tabs in the  gnome-terminal upside down. Is this possible? I can not get the border-bottom to show up. Any help with  this?
<slavsan> hello
<slavsan> any help with modifying a theme
#ubuntu-artwork 2013-04-02
<melodie_> hi
#ubuntu-artwork 2013-04-04
<magespawn> good afternoon
<melodie> hello !
#ubuntu-artwork 2013-04-06
<melodie> anyone on board ? what is this chan for ? only for official ubuntu versions or other versions could also be considered ?
#ubuntu-artwork 2016-04-07
<mike00> hi, is this the ubuntu design team?
<davidcalle> mike00: this channel has been silent for a long time, you should ask in #ubuntu-design
<mike00> thanks
<davidcalle> np :)
