#ubuntu-doc 2005-10-03
<jsgotangco> good morning
<jbailey> Heya jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> hi jbailey 
<jsgotangco> ooppss
<jsgotangco> i owe you something
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> let me do that now
<jbailey> Do you know what the sweet thing is?
<jbailey> I haven't a clue what it is that you owe me. ;)
<jsgotangco> clean up the branch
<jbailey> Ah!  Thanks. =)
<jbailey> I woke up this morning thinking about that and wondered why I hadn't done it. 
<jbailey> Especially when I had ot redo the 30 meg upload. =)
<jsgotangco> upload what??
<jbailey> ubuntu-artwork
<jbailey> My upload at 2am didn't work. =)
<jsgotangco> how does the packaging work? does it have a script that automatically registers the doc to yelp?
<jbailey> dh_scrollkeeper takes care of that for me.
<jbailey> I just have to make sure it knows about the OMF.
<jbailey> The OMF contains the URI to the Document.
<jsgotangco> jbailey, if i hit anything in branch just let me know :)
<jbailey> jsgotangco: =)
<ajmitch> hey jeff :)
<jbailey> Heya Andrew
<jsg_> shitty dsl
<jsgotangco> alright its much cleaner now
<jsgotangco> jbailey, we'll just merge the changes back to trunk after
<jbailey> Yup
<jbailey> Nice.  50megs removed from the working tree. =)
<Burgundavia> bonsoir robitaille 
<robitaille> hello Burgundavia 
<MadpilotPPC> hi Burgundavia 
<Burgundavia> mdke, it doc.ubuntu.com building out of trunk or breezy branch?
<jsgotangco> trunk
<Burgundavia> ok
<jsgotangco> i just cleaned up breezy branch
<Burgundavia> mdke, nev mind
<spayne> how can i put in a link on the wiki to another wiki page
<spayne> i have tried [Building_iFolder on this page]  which failed
<pitti> Hi
<spayne> yo pitti
<pitti> I'd like to change the current default CD player from totem to sound-juicer
<pitti> that is, the app that automatically starts when I insert a CD
<spayne> why are you ask in here?
<pitti> but since we are in all kinds of freezes, do we need to change any docs about this?
<pitti> spayne: if some documentation has a screenshot of gnome-cd or totem, and s-j pops up instead, that would be confusing
<spayne> don't ask me, i'm in the process of joining the wiki team
<spayne> :)
<pitti> jbailey: any idea about that?
<jbailey> pitti: I think that no screenshots have been done.  We're only providing three docs:
<jbailey> 1) about Ubuntu
<jbailey> 2) faqguide
<jbailey> 3) ummm
<jbailey> quicktour
<jbailey> The quicktour doesn't have pictures.
<jbailey> The other two can be seen by hopping into help and looking at the two options below the line.
<pitti> ok, that means I could change it without breaking too much?
<jbailey> I suspect so.
<Kinnison> does SJ play by doing DAE ?
<Kinnison> some machines can't do DAE in realtime
<pitti> Kinnison: I guess so, yes
<pitti> Kinnison: totem does, too
<Kinnison> oh right, if totem does too, then it's not a regression to rely on DAE
* Kinnison was just concerned about it
<Kinnison> SJ is a nicer CD UI anyway
<pitti> Kinnison: e. g. my iBook can't play CD audio directly, they apparently forgot the cable
<pitti> ok, I didn't find anything related to this in the docs
<pitti> so I'll change it now
<Kinnison> pitti: coo, quality apple manufacturing
<spayne> jbailey: ping
<jbailey> spayne: pong
<jjesse> morning folks :)
<spayne> jbailey: will you take a glance at my first Wiki document for the Wiki Team
<spayne> jbailey: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Building_iFolder and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/iFolder
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi jjesse
<jbailey> spayne: Only if you tell me what it is. ;)
<jjesse> help Kamping_Kaiser 
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<jbailey> spayne: What's this for? =)
<jjesse> doh can't type that was supposed to be hello Kamping_Kaiser 
<spayne> jbailey: iFolder
<spayne> jbailey: read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/iFolder first
<Kamping_Kaiser> i asumed so jjesse ;)
<jbailey> spayne: Right, but what do you want me to look for.
<jbailey> I've read them both now =)
<spayne> jbailey: are they alright? are they too complicated?
<jjesse> spayne: they look good to me :)
<spayne> jbailey: all my docs have been for tech users so i am trying hard
<jbailey> spayne: The document requires alot of faith on the part of the user.
<spayne> i thought i'd move all my docs for ubuntu from other sources (blog, hula wiki, ifolder wiki, ubuntu forums) onto the Wiki
<spayne> jbailey: sigh. i know
<jbailey> spayne: Wouldn't it be easier to package it and get it into universe? =)
<spayne> jbailey: Mez is making packages
<spayne> jbailey: I can't even package a KWin theme, never mind iFolder!
<spayne> jbailey: you can (in theory) alien RPMs but it puts weird stuff in /opt and has been known to totally screw up nautilus
<jbailey> Dude, if you can work CVS, packaging is the easy part. =)
<jbailey> Right.  Alien Considered Harmful
<ajmitch> Building_iFolder page suggests some dodgy stuff
<ajmitch> like --prefix=/usr
<spayne> ajmitch: tell me and will change
<jbailey> spayne: The biggest problem with this page is that it's an act of faith.  If they don't follow the instructiosn to the letter, it will break and they will have no idea why.
* ajmitch would never suggest that for stuff built from source :)
<spayne> ajmitch: where would you put it? in /usr/local, it doesn't pick everything up
<jbailey> And also because it's CVS they're working against, they could face random upstream breakage with no explanation.
<ajmitch> spayne: yes, in /usr/local, passing other flags to get it to pick things up
<ajmitch> spayne: I steer well clear of building from source myself
<jbailey> spayne: If it's automake based, packaging should take an experienced person about 2 hours.  If you have a day to heave at it, you could probably get it in. =)
<spayne> jbailey: i have been using ifolder for around 2 months and they have been any breakages
<ajmitch> well I build, but I just install from packages :)
<jbailey> spayne: Past performance is no guarnatee of future results. =)
<spayne> jbailey: i can't really start packaging as Mez has told Novell he is doing it
<spayne> plus, they can't go into the repos
<ajmitch> license issues
<spayne> as iFolder depends on a closed-source DB called Flaim
<jbailey> Is thih non-free?
<spayne> iFolder itself is free
<jbailey> Like can't even go into multiverse?
<spayne> and by January, the whole thing will be free
<spayne> no
<spayne> it can only be redistrubted by Novell
<jbailey> Suck.
<spayne> jbailey: sigh - i know. Mez is goign to make packages which will go into a Novell-supplied APT server
<jbailey> The --prefix=/usr is a fairly serious problem.
<spayne> jbailey: i can change that :)
<jbailey> That it's a problem, or the prefix? ;0
<spayne> iirc, no prefix puts it into /usr/local?
<ajmitch> jbailey: btw, good morning :)
* ajmitch wanders off to sleep
<spayne> ajmitch: i'm trying on my laptop to install to /usr/local and will report back
<jbailey> ajmitch: g'night. =)
<Kamping_Kaiser> night
<jjesse> is it just me or are most of the docteam on the exact opposite time zone as myself?
<Kamping_Kaiser> what time zone are you in?
<spayne> GMT :-)
<Kamping_Kaiser> heh
<Kamping_Kaiser> -930 (ACST)
<jjesse> sorry i'm eastern standard
<jjesse> so its 8:53 am here for me 
<Kamping_Kaiser> hm. ok
<jjesse> where is the current faq guide located in svn? just curious to see what changes need to be made for Kubuntu breezy
<jjesse> anyone?
<jbailey> jjesse: Did you find it yet?
<jjesse> am i looking in trunk/generic or trunk/kde/kfaqguide ?
<jjesse> don't know if anyone took a look at breezifying it
<jbailey> https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/breezy
<jbailey> Is where I'm pulling the packages from.
<jbailey> I think it's mostly a mirror of the trunk, though.
<jbailey> I haven't updated the kubuntu docs yet.  I'm not sure entirely what needs to be done there.
<jjesse> for kubuntu docs the ones i'm focusing on (it appears i'm the only one doing kubuntu) are kreleasenotes and kqugickguide
<jbailey> 'kay.  If you have stuff, I'd love to get it in and updated.
<jbailey> afk for about 25m for lunch.
<jjesse> kquickguide is the closest one to being done, have a good lunch
<jbailey> back
<rangzen> hello
<jjesse> hello rangzen 
<bhuvaneswaran> REGISTER 0xDec@f
<rangzen> is there some people here who use docbook -> po files?
<dand> Burgundavia: ping
<Burgundavia> dand, pong
<mdke> hiya Burgundavia 
<dand> hi, i just ran quicktour.pot through msgfmt -c and looks good
<Burgundavia> salut mdke 
<Burgundavia> cool
<dand> Burgundavia: how are the screenshots going?
<mdke> how is quicktour?
<dand> I'm interested in having localized versions of them 
<Burgundavia> going to start shooting tonight
<mdke> Burgundavia, can you do me a favour?
<mdke> if I give you the link to a couple of tars of translations, will you download em and upload them to the repo?
<mdke> i haven't got access here
<Burgundavia> mdke, sure, can do
<mdke> merci, just waiting for rosetta to organise em
<dand> mdke: is quicktour available in rosetta?
<Burgundavia> dand, not yet
<Burgundavia> dand, I need to upload the pot
<Burgundavia> will do so now
<dand> ok, good luck with that and with the screenshots :)
<Burgundavia> mdke, how do I upload into Rosetta?
<mdke> heh
<mdke> i thought you were gonna ask
<mdke> i think we need to create a new template
<Burgundavia> I click about a dozen links and got totally lost
<mdke> i don't think we have the right to create a new template, so I'm gonna say the answer is to bug jordi/carlos
<mdke> yeah i think it might be tricky, we need the template in two places
<mdke> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/ubuntu-docs/+translations
<mdke> and https://launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-doc
<mdke> best email jordi
<mdke> ok Burgundavia here are the things I need you to help me with
<mdke> http://librarian.launchpad.net/479212/479245/rosetta-aboutubuntu.tar.gz needs to go in branches/breezy/gnome/aboutubuntu/
<mdke> http://librarian.launchpad.net/479223/479256/rosetta-faqguide.tar.gz needs to go in branches/breezy/generic/faqguide/
* Burgundavia now has to figure out how to check out the branch
<mdke> ouch
<mdke> it shouldn't be so big because jerome has cut it down recently
<mdke> svn checkout https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/breezy/ breezy-branch
<Burgundavia> yep, pulling that down now
<mdke> upload the quicktour while you are at it, so jbailey can include it in his package
<mdke> if that is the plan
<Burgundavia> sure
<mdke> gtg now
<mdke> thanks for your help
<Burgundavia> np
<Burgundavia> mdke, done
<dand> Burgundavia: I generated an html from the pot, and I can see a couple of problems: http://lisa.codemonkey.ro/~dand/quicktour/quicktour.test.html
<dand> Ubu-? instead of Ubu-what?
<dand> "s just got faster" instead of "PDFs just got faster"
<dand> I used: xml2po -p quicktour.pot quicktour.html > quicktour.test.html
<Burgundavia> hmm
<Burgundavia> I am really not an expert on pots
<dand> well, the pot is sintactically correct... I wish I knew more about xml2po 
<dand> I'm gonna look into it, see what I can find out...
<Burgundavia> dand, I am going to upload the pot I have. When we fix the issue, we can reupload the fixed one
<dand> ok, it seems that <em> and <abbr> tags are not handled correctly
<Burgundavia> ah
<dand> however I don't seem to have xhtml extension available
<Burgundavia> likely a bug in xml2po
<dand> I have xml2po 0.2.0
<Burgundavia> you using breezy or hoary?
<dand> hoary
<dand> i'm gonna try update xml2po then
<Burgundavia> grab gnome-doc-utils out of breezy
<dand> I will, thanks
<dand> Burgundavia: upgraded to breezy version, but I can't find the xhtml module... it should be at /usr/share/xml2po/xhtml.py
<dand> does "  dpkg -L gnome-doc-utils|grep xhtml  " return anything for you?
<Burgundavia> no
<Burgundavia> sorry, I have to leave in 5 to be at work on time
<dand> ok, thanks
#ubuntu-doc 2005-10-04
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia, what's with the tar.gz upload?
<MadpilotPPC> hi all
<jsgotangco> hey
<MadpilotPPC> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/  <-- "It's alive!" ;)
<jsgotangco> hehe
<MadpilotPPC> looks good, too
<ajmitch> evening all
<ajmitch> what's new?
<MadpilotPPC> not much here - The Fridge is running, though, which is cool Ubuntu news...
<ajmitch> I'm sure I saw it running a week or two ago ;)
<MadpilotPPC> heh, OK, I"m just behind the times here...
<ajmitch> and it's still a bit bare 
<MadpilotPPC> good framework, though
<ajmitch> http://www.tectonic.co.za/view.php?id=631
<MadpilotPPC> right now it just seems like an alternate version of planet.ubuntu, though ;)
<ajmitch> interesting link on the fridge there
<MadpilotPPC> which one?
<ajmitch> the impilinux announcement
<MadpilotPPC> read that - actually having a look around the website it came from now
<MadpilotPPC> lots of Linux stuff going on in RSA these days
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> sabdfl is busy down there :)
<MadpilotPPC> yup
<MadpilotPPC> that's cool, someone has finally combined the CC licences and the GPL: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/GPL/2.0/
<jsgotangco> wow
<jsgotangco> hmm that's still the GPL but human-readable
<MadpilotPPC> exactly
<MadpilotPPC> I'm reasonable good at parsing legal docs, but the GPL defeats me - CC is just so much easier...
<MadpilotPPC> *reasonably, not reasonable... 
<jsgotangco> Onubalinux?
<rob^> umm, did anyone else have to dist-update to get the new ubuntu-docs package?
<jsgotangco> of course
<jsgotangco> or its already seeded
<jsgotangco> rob^, the faqguide looks really trashy in some chapters
<rob^> it was holding it back
<rob^> jsgotangco, which ones?
<jsgotangco> rob^, force it :)
<rob^> yeah I did
<jsgotangco> rob^, some chapters don't have linkx
<jsgotangco> items i mean
<rob^> I think something odd is going on, all of the credits and stuff are missing too
<jsgotangco> oh the credits are fine
<jsgotangco> some of the entities are just not packaged yet
<rob^> ooh ouch.. eg: Register free Dynamic DNS at .
<rob^> wtf is up with that?
<jsgotangco> rob^, yes see that?
<rob^> yeah.. odd it wasn't doing that before
<jsgotangco> my guess is that its with the entities
<jsgotangco> which are not included yet
<rob^> so this issue will fix itself up when jbailey includes the entities file?
<rob^> also, on the yelp front page, the faqguide is listed as "Unofficial Ubuntu 5.10 Starter Guide
<rob^> "
<jsgotangco> heh i should fix it myself later
<jsgotangco> thats easy to sort out, probably from the old omf file
<rob^> umm, so why are the credits etc removed, I thought this page was a requirement of one of the licences
<rob^> well, at least the revision history anyway
<jsgotangco> they're not
<jsgotangco> (i can see them here)
<rob^> they are missing when I view the faqguide from the ubuntu-docs package in yelp
<jsgotangco> hmm
<rob^> when I view the faqguide from branch I get a few more of the missing pages back, but still no credits page, although in the xml file its clearly there
<rob^> maybe yelp doesn't support <legalnotice> tags?
<jsgotangco> mdke, what email is this?
<dholbach> heya! :)
<jsgotangco> hey dholbach 
<jsgotangco> you seem lost
<dholbach> lost?
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> what brings you to this desert wasteland
<dholbach> haha :)
<dholbach> is that so?
<jsgotangco> whats up?
<dholbach> i wanted to ask the team's advice on http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/8595
<dholbach> it's about gnome's user-guide
* jsgotangco wonders where is the team
* jsgotangco checks
<dholbach> i'll get an update from GNOME's cvs but i daresay it won't be enough to be up to scratch concerning 2.12
<jsgotangco> upstream isn't updated
<jsgotangco> there is an email a few weeks ago by Shaun McCance to have the user guide updated for 2.12
<jsgotangco> but that was a few days after 2.12 was released
<dholbach> ok, so you'd suggest i check for updates occasionally?
<dholbach> do you happen to know to which list he wrote it?
<jsgotangco> gnome-doc-list itself
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> jsgotangco, well-informed as always
<dholbach> :)
<jsgotangco> i think the desktop guide itself is updated for 2.10
<jsgotangco> but yelp still shows it as 2.6
<jsgotangco> obviously the omf file isn't updated
<dholbach> ah right
<jsgotangco> it seems i am the only one here who actually cares for yelp
<jsgotangco> hehe
<jsgotangco> 2005-03-08: 2.10 (Shaun McCance)
<jsgotangco> September 2004: GNOME 2.8 Desktop User Guide V2.8
<dholbach> they seem to have a #docs channel
<jsgotangco> yeah
<dholbach> i just read the "User Guide needs you"
<jsgotangco> see
<jsgotangco> i'd love to work upstream if i had the time
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> it's a tough job
<dholbach> and a not-so-well-rewarded one :(
<jsgotangco> gnome docs has been neglegted really
<dholbach> yeah, it's really sad - they formed the best desktop system, but didn't explain it :)
<jsgotangco> if i wasn't doing anything i'd do it myself
<jsgotangco> but it seems even opening up the doc to the wiki isn't working
<ajmitch> hi dholbach, you've decided to visit as well? ;)
<dholbach> yeah :)
<jsgotangco> lots of people seem to like visiting the desert huh
<dholbach> haha
<ajmitch> so much good stuff in gnome
<ajmitch> so much that probably still needs documented
<dholbach> i wish i could help you, but i daresay my efforts better go in elsewhere
<dholbach> users wouldnt understand me :)
* ajmitch imagines the sysadmin guide for desktop management will be *really* welcomed for dapper
<ajmitch> dholbach: write the sysadmin guide! :)
<jsgotangco> dholbach, right, if i did work on gnome docs, id rather work directly to gnome and leave ubuntu docs work
<dholbach> ajmitch: man, i better get cracking on the bugs matt assigned me
<dholbach> ajmitch: that's of more use, i suppose
<ajmitch> dholbach: certainly
<dholbach> :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: want me to look at any? :)
<dholbach> http://tinyurl.com/drk8z - http://tinyurl.com/96e4l :)
<dholbach> but i guess this is the wrong channel to lament about that
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> we'll head back to -desktop & whinge there ;)
<jsgotangco> ok i gotta go do some groceries first
<dholbach> have fun, jerome :)
<segfault> hi
<segfault> my the pt_BR translation of aboutubuntu isn't in the ubuntu-docs package?
<segfault> err, why.
<segfault> jbailey: are you around?
<mdke> segfault, that has not been done yet
<mdke> only the english version is in there to my knowledge
<jbailey> segfault: Am now.
<mdke> jbailey, he wanted to know how you are getting on with getting the relevant translations into the distro
<jbailey> Right now so far I'm just updating the package manually.
<jbailey> From whatever's committed to the branch.
<jbailey> I need to clean it up more to remove the entity errors that are there.
<mdke> k
<mdke> so are the translations that are uploaded already working in Breezy?
<jbailey> Yes, except for Tunesian and Portuguese.
<jbailey> I tested all of the others.
<mdke> wow
<mdke> how come the stuff isn't in /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-docs btw?
<jbailey> I put them where the gnome stuff seemed happiest to have it for yelp.
<mdke> ah ok
<jbailey> If it's wrong, please let me know. =)
<mdke> don't think it matters, was just curious
<jbailey> But I just ripped apart a few other scrollkeeper docs, and the OMF files that were in there already generally pointed to those locations.
<mdke> the faqguide is at usr/share/ubuntu-docs and the quicktour html is at /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-docs
<jbailey> Part of me was thinking that I might generate the HTML files as well and still register them with doc-base.
<mdke> ah cool
<jbailey> Yeah.
<jbailey> I wonder if I should move it.
<mdke> up to you
<mdke> by the way, i will keep updating those tarballs of translations for about-ubuntu and faqguide
<mdke> do you want me to make some xml files manually, or do you think that script is doable?
<jbailey> I just need the time to do it.  Do you mind doing another update?
<jbailey> I'll ping pitti now.
<mdke> jbailey, the latest one was last night, but we can keep doing them all the time, the key is to get the script which converts the tarballs to xml
<mdke> jbailey, did you see my mail about that script?
<pitti> Hi
<jbailey> mdke: I did.
<jbailey> Martin!
<mdke> hi pitti 
<mdke> jbailey, great
<jbailey> pitti: mdke has a script for exporting the rosetta stuff and reassembling the XML.
<mdke> erm...
<mdke> do I?
<jbailey> mdke: Did I misunderstand the script?
* jbailey digs through
<pitti> erm, for which context?
<jbailey> I might be confused, it happens often.
<mdke> ok i'll start from the beginning
<mdke> pitti, we are translating our docs in rosetta
<mdke> we need to convert em from po->xml and then upload to breezy
<jbailey> Ah, no script, just instructions. =)
<mdke> jbailey, i understood you to be offering to write such a po->xml script ;)
<jbailey> Right. =)
<mdke> i am incapable :D
<pitti> ah :-)
<jbailey> That's why I was thinking of scripts.
<jbailey> My confusion.
<jbailey> pitti: Is there any possibility of hooking this into the langpack exports?
<pitti> jbailey: you mean building new XML files and build -docs packages?
<pitti> that's certainly doable
<jbailey> Well, I don't know if it should be new -docs packages.
<mdke> i suppose at the worst you could make ubuntu-docs-cc and get the language selector to choose them
<jbailey> Or something added to the langpack and just rerun scrollkeeper.
<pitti> it doesn't fit into the current concept of the language pack builder, but it could become a separate script
<jbailey> pitti: I think the docs are generally small enough to be just generally included.
<pitti> jbailey: yes, right, that would be possible, too
<pitti> jbailey: right now langpack-o-matic does not have that facility, but I'll think about a reasonably general implementation
<pitti> is this planned for breezy?
<mdke> heh
<mdke> what I had in mind was pulling the po's down manually, getting a script to create the xml, and uploading them to breezy either through ubuntu-docs-cc or ubuntu-docs itself
<jbailey> pitti: Well it's a general feature that would be lovely for breezy but if not, then not.
<mdke> if the former (ubuntu-docs-cc), we'd need the language selector involved, i think
<jbailey> mdke: Yeah.  But since ubuntu-docs is part of the base install, I don't see why we wouldn't just include it in the langpack directly.
<segfault> HI!
<mdke> jbailey, i kind of assumed we couldn't do that, but if pitti can do it, then awesome
<segfault> what happened to pt_BR translations?
<segfault> i don't see it in ubuntu-docs
<jbailey> mdke: pitti is *magic*
<mdke> segfault, possibly we haven't generated the xml file yet
<jbailey> segfault: I don't remember seeing a pt_BR on the branch.
<mdke> exactly
<jbailey> segfault: There was a pt.  I didn't work, and I don't know why yet.
<segfault> we translated everything in Rosetta.
<mdke> segfault, we haven't created the documents yet
<mdke> give us some time :)
<pitti> jbailey: for starters, I'd just put the "update" script into the ubuntu-docs source packages and call it if necessary
<pitti> jbailey: once that works, I can integrate it into langpack-o-matic proper
<pitti> what do you think about this?
<segfault> do i need to send it to the svn repo?
<pitti> I think that should be doable for Breezy
<mdke> segfault, no
<segfault> i thought you guys were getting everything from roesetta
<mdke> segfault, we are
<jbailey> pitti: Sure.  I can do weekly checks to see whether or not any new translations have appeared and upload them.
<mdke> segfault, i mean "no", as in "you don't have to send it", because we'll do it
<segfault> sure
<segfault> how about images?
<jbailey> pitti: And then once we've proven the scripts, move it to the langpacks?
<mdke> segfault, we haven't got a plan for them
<segfault> http://www.ubuntubrasil.org/docs/about-ubuntu/about-ubuntu.pt_BR.html
<segfault> i put a preview here, with the translated image.
<segfault> or shouldn't i translate the default ubuntu image?
<mdke> segfault, probably not i would say
<mdke> although that is nice
<pitti> jbailey: yes, that's the idea
<jbailey> Does Rosetta handle images?
<pitti> jbailey: then we also move the documentation to the langpack debs itself?
<mdke> jbailey, nope
<pitti> jbailey: do do you think it's better to upload a new autogenerated ubuntu-docs?
<jbailey> The problem with the ubuntu-docs is then you carry baggage from language that you don't care about.
<mdke> what about the ubuntu-docs-cc idea?
<jbailey> mdke: I just wonder if it's worth the hassle of figuring out how to install them and such when there's already a general langpack.
<pitti> mdke: splitting is probably too heavy
<jbailey> The only reasoan I can think of to make it a separate package is if there's people who would unisntall just that.
<pitti> mdke: I mean, it's not worth it
* jbailey imagines one of his mentors voices: "What problem is this trying to solve?"
<mdke> fair play
<mdke> stick everything in ubuntu-docs for now is my opinion then, but I don't know much about it
<jbailey> Matthew said it, it must be right.  I'll do that ;)
* jbailey hides
<jbailey> =)
<jbailey> pitti: Do we have easy access to do automated uploads, or should I do them by hand for now?
<mdke> jbailey, so if I upload tarballs of po's from rosetta, is that script for po->xml doable?
<jbailey> I'm assuming it would pull from a bzr branch or something?
<pitti> jbailey: right now I do it as a special language pack user, which has its own GPG key
<jbailey> mdke: It looks like a doable thing from the commands you gave.
<pitti> jbailey: so I can upload 400 packages at once without typing my passphrase 
<mdke> cool
<jbailey> What?  No gpg-agent? =)
<pitti> jbailey: but this key can only upload packages language-pack-*
<jbailey> Did you arrange that with elmo or inifinity?
<pitti> jbailey: I tried to use gpg-agent, but it doesn't work with gpg
<jbailey> Err. =)
<pitti> jbailey: and gpg2 immediately crashes, so I gave up and just use gnome-gpg at home
<jbailey> 'fair nuff.
<pitti> jbailey: anyway, I arranged that with elmo
<pitti> jbailey: it would be easy to add the "ubuntu-docs" package to the allowed list for the langpack key
<jbailey> pitti: Do you do it by hand right now or is it automated?
<pitti> jbailey: uploading langpacks?
<jbailey> Da.
<pitti> jbailey: well, I manually have to call the process, i. e. call one script to generate the source packages
<jbailey> 'k, so I'm not worried about it right now.
<mdke> ok i'm gonna leave you guys to it
<pitti> then I build some manmually, test them, then I call another script which mass-builds changes files and uploads them 
<jbailey> I'll worry about integrated it later to protect against me getting hit by a bus.
<mdke> jbailey, let me know how you get on by email ya?
<jbailey> Sure. =0
<mdke> rockin
<pitti> jbailey: right now my gut feeling is that keeping a single "ubuntu-docs" package is the right thing as long as it stays reasonably small
<jbailey> My only issue there is that screen shots and whatnot might inflate the package.
<jbailey> But it's not the case right now.
<pitti> jbailey: well, splitting later is always easy
<pitti> for Breezy we should probably keep it as it is now
<jbailey> Oh, definetly.
<jbailey> Through the dapper cycle from the beginning I will to weekly uploads.
<pitti> jbailey: we can automate that then
<pitti> jbailey: by that time we should have the Rosetta stuff running, and I'll automate langpack-o-matic more
<pitti> jbailey: right now it is still much manual hacking since I manually import the raw buildd output and have to babysit and care for cleanup myself
<jbailey> Nyaah
<jbailey> Okay, I won't inflict bits on you. =)
<jbailey> pitti: Ooo!  On an unrelated note...
<jbailey> pitti: How do I get this into the notification applet? =)
<jbailey> s/this/things/
<pitti> jbailey: just drop a file into /var/lib/update-notifier/user.d/
<pitti> jbailey: u-n will pick it up through gamin
<jbailey> pitti: Cool, thanks.
<jbailey> pitti: What deletes them from there after?   Just the package getting purged?
<pitti> jbailey: yes, the package has to care for it
<jbailey> Hmm.  So a new user on the system sees al lthe previous notifications.
<pitti> jbailey: and depending on what you do with the notificatoin, you shuold probably generate it in the postinst instead of just shipping the file
<pitti> jbailey: many notifications are cleaned on boot
<jbailey> Ah, okay.
<jbailey> this is for glibc to say after an nss upgrade that now would be a good time to reboot.
<jbailey> So I can do that, too.
<pitti> jbailey: yep
<pitti> jbailey: I think mvo has a special flag for it which was designed for the kernel
<pitti> jbailey: in case you don't have a suitable init script which could remove it
<jbailey> Sure, but I could. =)
<pitti> jbailey: given that we now have four packages which ask for reboot, and after a dist-upgrade it is likely that you will see all four, we should factorize them somehow
<jbailey> pitti: Yeah.
<jbailey> Probably not a breezy thing, though.
<pitti> yes
<jbailey> It would be easy enough to have a translated file in /usr/share/doc somewhere and symlink it in.
<jbailey> And any package that wants it just adds the symlink.
<jbailey> And a script on reboot that deletes the symlink.
<jbailey> Then you can do an infinite number on ln -sf's. =)
<pitti> nice idea
<pitti> maybe tell mvo in #u-d?
#ubuntu-doc 2005-10-05
<Burgundavia> jbailey, http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=70266
<ajmitch> the mysterious ubuntu-faqguide?
<Burgundavia> no idea
<mdke> hi
<ajmitch> hi mdke 
<mdke> how are things?
<ajmitch> good
<mdke> rob^, no changing anything in the faqguide now ;)
* mdke wags his finger
<mdke> jbailey, you rock, thanks for doing all those translations
* mdke goes to work
<jsgotangco> hi mdke 
<mdke> hello mate
<jsgotangco> i had a long chat with JaneW about this last night
<mdke> ok i had a chat with mdz
<mdke> he said that JaneW was confused
<mdke> i don't know whether they are changing the doc or not!
<mdke> you know what is going on?
<jsgotangco> i have no idea either
<jsgotangco> i'll be very very pissed if they changed the doc
<mdke> me too
<mdke> i have busted my ass with the translations
<jsgotangco> well yes
<jsgotangco> and the translator's effort as well
<jsgotangco> so i hope they won't change it
<jsgotangco> and just plan ahead
<mdke> me too
<mdke> jbailey has also put in a lot of work
<mdke> as from last night, the translations should be in breezy
<jsgotangco> i wasn't able to stay long yesterday because my wife's uncle died and we had to go
<mdke> ouch
<mdke> sorry to hear that
<jsgotangco> im actually away but i manage to find an open wifi router
<jsgotangco> i'm actually almost near the roof at the moment
<jsgotangco> hehe
<jsgotangco> mdke, np mate, the guy was very very old and bedridden for the past months
<mdke> ok
<jsgotangco> mdke, these last minute changes only show how much planning are dedicated to docs by ubuntu itself :)
<mdke> indeed
<mdke> well to be fair, the whole distro has had last minute changes
<jsgotangco> well yes of course
<jsgotangco> we had a rough development cycle
<jsgotangco> me and sean were talking about it 2 days ago over jabber
<mdke> have you updated recently? I'm interested in knowing whether the translations are working
<jsgotangco> im updating now
<jsgotangco> i have a localised system at home and will try it when i get back
<mdke> cool
<mdke> ok i have to get to work
<jbailey> g'm
<jjesse> good morning
<Kamping_Kaiser> wb
<mdke> hey jbailey
<mdke> jbailey, awesome work yesterday. Today brings a couple of bugs in ubuntu-docs
<jbailey> mdke: I know about the entity errors.  Any others?
<jbailey> I also still couldn't get pt to work right although pt_BR does.
<mdke> jbailey, the other one I filed is the erroneous name for the faqguide
<jbailey> Err.
<jbailey> Did I get it wrong, or are you proposing a string change? =)
<mdke> no, no
<mdke> jbailey, the omf file
<jbailey> Right.
<mdke> jbailey, we didn't like the word "unofficial"
<jbailey> But that's still a string.
<mdke> ah
<mdke> not allowed?
<jbailey> Almost certainly.
<mdke> i changed it and committed, so better undo it if that is a problem
<mdke> the "unofficial" thing was a hangup from the hoary version
<jbailey> 'k
<jbailey> Ah, yeah.
<mdke> it's a problem? you can't upload that?
<jbailey> Right.  The deadline for DocumentationStringFreeze was Sept 8.
<jbailey> I'd get larted for doing it now.
<mdke> jbailey, although taking a flexible interpretation of that freeze, it was to enable translations to be done. The omf files are not getting translated
<jbailey> Although many of them already are.
<mdke> really?
<jbailey> Yeah.
<mdke> that must be from hoary too i guess
<jbailey> Yeah.
<mdke> ok your call on that
<jbailey> And if I had been clever I could've done the ones last night.
<jbailey> I think the string also appears in the .xml file
<jbailey> So I should be able to pick up the translation from there.
<mdke> i doubt it
<jbailey> Not the 'Unofficial' one.
<jbailey> But the 'About Ubuntu' does.
<mdke> oh yeah sure
<mdke> i still don't think the string freeze applies to those omf files
<mdke> but i'll leave it with you
<mdke> it's not a major issue, the entity thing is major
<jbailey> Right.
<jbailey> The Entity thing is a bug.
<jbailey> I can fix that now. =)
<mdke> what is up with that?
<mdke> global.ent is in the wrong place?
<jbailey> Right.
<jbailey> It's looking for things in 
<jbailey> "../../common"
<mdke> yeah
<mdke> ok, the other bug is that the legal stuff doesn't show up in the faqguide
<jbailey> I have to look up if there's a search base or something I can use.
<jbailey> Likfe the FDL and such?
<mdke> yah
<jbailey> Symptom of problem #1
<jbailey> =)
<mdke> it's in this bit:
<mdke> 	<xi:include href="../../../common/C/ccbysa.xml" xmlns:xi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XInclude"/>
<mdke> 	<xi:include href="../../../common/C/fdl.xml" xmlns:xi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XInclude"/>
<mdke> 	<!-- &cc-by-sa;
<mdke> 	&fdl; -->
<jbailey> Your best bet if you want that string changed is to put an item in for the TB next Tuesday
<mdke> same bug really
<mdke> the "unofficial" string?
<jbailey> Get them to rule on what's covered by StringFreeze and what's not.
<jbailey> Right.
<mdke> ok
<mdke> will do
<mdke> how about the legal bug, is that fixable?
<segfault> i installed the new ubuntu-docs today
<segfault> it showed pt_BR ok, however there was no ubuntu image, when i clicked in "About Ubuntu"
<segfault> besides, we should tell people to add their translations of "About Ubuntu" in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTranslations
<mdke> jbailey, i can confirm that ^^
<mdke> missing image bug
<jbailey> Right.
<jbailey> I'll see if I can fix that.
<segfault> since it looks like they'll freeze that today
<jbailey> segfault: Too late for more translations.  Freeze was yesterday
<segfault> humm, Mirv told me that was still in time
<mdke> yeah you can do them
<mdke> segfault, it applies to translations of .desktop files only
<mdke> not docs
<segfault> is that possible to have a translated image of Ubuntu in pt_BR?
<jbailey> Probably not at this point, sorry.
<mdke> no, best to use the original image
<jbailey> We have no way of really doing translated images.
<segfault> mdke: sure, but since people translated the about-ubuntu doc, i guess they would like to se the desktop entry translated too
<mdke> segfault, yes, that is up to them, I have no way to communicate this further
<segfault> np
<jbailey> Time for usual morning prep.  bbiab
<jsgotangco> mdke: =)
<jsgotangco> hey jbailey
<jsgotangco> jbailey: ping?
<jbailey> jsgotangco: Pong.
<jsgotangco> jbailey: did something bad happen again?
<jbailey> jsgotangco: Dude, it's software development.
<jbailey> Something bad is *always* happening. =)
<jsgotangco> because im getting the smackdown from ogra and i have no idea what happened
<jbailey> Eh? Where from?
<jsgotangco> ogra: jsgotangco, i'm pretty annoyed that i have to redo the edubuntu-artwork package completely and i didnt have time planned for that... there were heavy changes to this doc that split it up into several other documents ... 
<jbailey> Lemme ask him and find out what's up...
<jsgotangco> because i have no clue really
<jsgotangco> we did our part
<jsgotangco> hi jjesse
<jjesse> hello jsgotangco 
<jbailey> Anyone here care about a change I'm proposing for the files?  Right now we look for images and such in "../..", etc..
<jbailey> I'm thinking that I will replace that with a ROOTPATH entity
<jbailey> That way it can be changed between local generation and package generation.
<jsgotangco> it makes things easier huh
<jbailey> I think it will.
<jbailey> Or it could be the whole path is better.
<jbailey> so &imagepath;
<jsgotangco> does it still require locales to have their own copies?
<jbailey> Or something like that.
<jbailey> Tell me what the right thing is. =)
<jbailey> I can easily take the &language; out of the string.
<jbailey> I don't know if I can make it pick dynamically if an image is either localised or not.
<jbailey> Right now we have things lke:
<jbailey>                 <imagedata fileref="../../images/&language;/UbuntuLogo.png" format="PNG"/>
<jsgotangco> yes
<jbailey> What would you like it to be?
<jsgotangco> what is your recommendation? I'd rather have it just simply /images/foo or at least ./images/foo
<jbailey> Sure.  It depends if the images are common or not.
<jbailey> I need to grab food.  Will you be around in 30m or so?
<jsgotangco> sure
<jsgotangco> i'll wait
<jbailey> Thanks, sorry.  I realised that I hadn't had lunch and was getting spacy
<jsgotangco> no problem
<jsgotangco> im trying to learn esperanto
<jsgotangco> heh
<mdke> jsgotangco, sup
<mdke> jdub, pong?
<jdub> mdke: the about page in docteam svn is mark's text, innit?
<mdke> jdub, yes, the one in the breezy branch
<mdke> jdub, y you ask?
<jdub> yeah
<jdub> tops
<jdub> just checking
<mdke> putting it back in -artwork?
<jdub> lord no
<jdub> :-)
<mdke> phew
<jsgotangco> hehe
<jdub> more defending my arse
<mdke> jdub, ah
<mdke> mark wrote it
<mdke> we did a few typo corrections
<jsgotangco> yes
<mdke> otherwise it is all his
<mdke> :)
<jsgotangco> he played around with the existing test and added more stuff
<jsgotangco> mdke: nothing much just messing around with rosetta
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> i actually translated the doc to en_UK
<jsgotangco> hehhee
<mdke> argh
<mdke> is tagalog done?
<jsgotangco> yes
<mdke> cool
<mdke> did it make it into the distro?
<jsgotangco> afaik yes
<mdke> cool
<mdke> pm btw
<jsgotangco> mdke: can you review how good my en_UK is
<jsgotangco> hehe
<mdke> i can't confirm translations in en_UK
<jsgotangco> there's a team????
<mdke> i'm not in the group, if there is one
<mdke> doubt there is one
<jsgotangco> haha
<mdke> i hope not, anyhow
<mdke> i'll have a look later
<jsgotangco> hehe don't take it seriously
<jsgotangco> after all rob^ started translating to en_AU
<mdke> ;)
<mdke> gtg home
<mdke> laters
<jsgotangco> jbailey: i gotta sleep
<jsgotangco> feel free to email the list if no one here can answer/help you
#ubuntu-doc 2005-10-06
<ajmitch> afternoon jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> hi andrew =)
<ajmitch> how are you?
<jsgotangco> oh i just came from  a job interview
<jsgotangco> looks promising
<MadpilotPPC> greetings, everyone
<jsgotangco> its an australian firm
<jsgotangco> if i get hired i'll probably stay in brisbane for a while
<jsgotangco> the work is very RHEL-centric though =(
<ajmitch> brisbane isn't too bad
<ajmitch> and I'd rather do RHEL than MS
<jsgotangco> yeah its a mobile content provider
<ajmitch> when would the job start?
<jsgotangco> all the servers are in either brisbane or sydney
<jsgotangco> well if i do get hired i can start in a few weeks
<ajmitch> I hope you do :)
<ajmitch> your family would move to brisbane with you then?
<jsgotangco> ahh not in the immediate future
<ajmitch> it'll make it cheaper to get to LCA, assuming you had time
<jsgotangco> ajmitch: sure *crosses fingers*
<ajmitch> there are direct brisbane-dunedin flights
<ajmitch> good luck with the job, anyway :)
<jsgotangco> thanks
* ajmitch hasn't visited brisbane for many years, actually
<jsgotangco> AndyFitz is based there right?
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> and a couple of others, iirc
<ajmitch> ah, infinity is listed as cairns, not brisbane
<ajmitch> though I can't recall if he moved
<ajmitch> hi robitaille 
<robitaille> hello ajmitch 
<MadpilotPPC> hi robitaille 
<robitaille> Hi MadpilotPPC 
<robitaille> too many emails....not enough hours in a day...
<MadpilotPPC> that's what Delete keys are for, isn't it?
<robitaille> don't worry, I have been using it in  the last 10 minutes
<jsgotangco> hmm i should clean up the branch further
<jsgotangco> there's still cruft that ins't going to be used at all
<jsgotangco> what the...
<jsgotangco> those images in \sh
<jsgotangco> 's blog are awesome
<MadpilotPPC> those street art ones? They're wild
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> so its about the angle of the shot eh?
<MadpilotPPC> The off-angle one of the swimming pool is great - I want to see an off-angle shot of that digging-for-gold one, though
<MadpilotPPC> The one with the model sailboat in the puddle - I think that's real water, but I'm not at all sure
<jsgotangco> the coke bottle looks so real in the thumbnail
<mdke> morning all
<robitaille> hi mdke 
<Kamping_Kaiser> rofl. Linux SAs next meeting will be about RFC 1149
<mdke> yo robitaille 
<robitaille> Kamping_Kaiser,  what is RFC 1149?
<Kamping_Kaiser> robitaille: transmission of data by carrier pigeons. 
<MadpilotPPC> http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1149.html -- "A Standard for the Transmission of IP Datagrams on Avian Carriers"
<MadpilotPPC> WTF?
<jsgotangco> hahah
<Kamping_Kaiser> yeh :)
<MadpilotPPC> What are these people smoking, and will they share it? ;)
<robitaille> Kamping_Kaiser,  ah  yes, RFC 1149.   That's why the number looked familiar  
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol. dunno, and proabably not - check out the one for data transmission by great south african snails
<robitaille> read about 1149 for the first time last year
<mdke> are those photos on the street for real?
<mdke> that is incredible
<robitaille> http://www.blug.linux.no/rfc1149/ has pictures of RFC 1149 in action
<robitaille> mdke,  they look real.  amazing
<mdke> yeah
<mdke> http://users.skynet.be/J.Beever/globe.html
<mdke> jbailey, ping?
<rob^> grr I bloody hate the way car makers put non-standard crap in their cars
<mdke> hey there rob^ 
<rob^> hi mdke 
* rob^ is having problems getting speakers fitted into his car
<MadpilotPPC> rob^, you having fun? ;)
<rob^> having some odd issue with this irc server
* MadpilotPPC mutters unprintable things about XChat...
<rob^> I'm using mirc
<rob^> an old 16 version in fact
<rob^> 16bit
<MadpilotPPC> any reason you're so hardcore? There are better, newer IRC apps, you know ;)
<jsgotangco> he's not being hardcore, he's just being true to himself
<jsgotangco> hehe
<rob^> mirc is 1337!!!
<MadpilotPPC> Dog save us from the 1337 among us...
<MadpilotPPC> good thing bob2 doesn't hang out on -docs, he's been known to ban for AIMglish
<jsgotangco> rob^: so di you have fun with scrollkeeper?
<rob^> nah I'm not using mirc really, but I have changed my version reply to say that I am :P
<rob^> jsgotangco, yeah I understand how it works now at least
<jsgotangco> rob^: the sad part is that it hasn't been updated for quite some time
<jsgotangco> rob^: its a neat system though
<rob^> it works pretty good, but its a bit messy how we have it set up
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> we could actually edit yelp if needed
<jsgotangco> its just a bunch of xml entities
<rob^> the interface itself
<jsgotangco> not the interface but some elements
<jsgotangco> like instead of saying Help
<jsgotangco> we can edit it as Ubuntu Help
<rob^> I think I remember reading something about it once
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> i did that
<jsgotangco> we were supposed to do something like that and jdub told me to put it on hold because he said they're doing something
<ajmitch> too late to make that change now?
<jsgotangco> ajmitch: aye
<jsgotangco> ajmitch: dunno what could break
<rob^> I hope they get a bounty on improving yelp after ubz
* ajmitch is hoping for an selinux bounty ;)
<jsgotangco> rob^: yelp bounty sounds interesting...
<rob^> selinux is pretty good, you just have to know how to use it properly
<ajmitch> rob^: yep
<jsgotangco> but im sure shaun mccance has some stuff on his hands
<rob^> whos shaun mccance?
<jsgotangco> rob^: the maintainer of Yelp
<rob^> ah
<jsgotangco> Help -> About Yelp
<jsgotangco> hehe
<rob^> oh yes
<jsgotangco> he's pretty active really
<rob^> maybe ubuntu could sponser him to improve it?
<jsgotangco> im seriously considering helping out on Yelp
<jsgotangco> as soon as i sort my priorities
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: if you find out how to do that, please let me know.
* rob^ thinks an e is close enough to an o
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: do what?
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: sort out your priorities :)
<jsgotangco> haha
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: i just take on way too much and have trouble letting go of things i want to do.
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: noted
<jsgotangco> brb i have dinner with family outside in a few minutes
<spayne> yo all
<MadpilotPPC> hi spayne 
<jbailey> mdke: Pong
<jsgotangco> good night
<mdke> jbailey, i've forgotten what it was now
<mdke> oh yeah
<mdke> jbailey, lots of links aren't working in the faqguide, due to missing files (faqguide/C/samples/ i think)
<jbailey> 'kay
<jbailey> I'll take a look at that.
<mdke> wicked
#ubuntu-doc 2005-10-07
<MadpilotPPC> nicely done blog post on CC by Jeff Waugh on planet.ubuntu
<MadpilotPPC> busy here today... where is everyone?
<Kamping_Kaiser> writing doco for another group... yourself? ;)
<MadpilotPPC> loitering, drinking beer, editing the wiki
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol. beer + wiki?
<MadpilotPPC> following odd URLs off BoingBoing ;)
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol
<MadpilotPPC> moderate amounts of beer, absorbed by a fair bit of pizza. The wiki is fairly safe, don't worry
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol. which reminds me, i was going to go and set myself up to do some work once breezy goes stable
<MadpilotPPC> work in the Ubuntu wiki?
<Kamping_Kaiser> wiki and -doc project.
<MadpilotPPC> Are you running Breezy right now?
<Kamping_Kaiser> yeh, since hoary went stable
<Kamping_Kaiser> and then ill go and track dapper
<MadpilotPPC> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Archive  <-- this needs updating by someone savvier than I am, who can make the intro blurb make sense to someone running Breezy
<MadpilotPPC> it's still talking about Warty and the plans for Hoary... :(
<Kamping_Kaiser> :S
<Kamping_Kaiser> sorry, called away :\ back now
* Kamping_Kaiser has wiki account... didnt remember i could use the launchpad login for it ;)
<MadpilotPPC> ya
<MadpilotPPC> Ubuntu needs to do some pretty serious streamlining of accounts... I've got a Launchpad/wiki one, a Ubuntu Bugzilla one, a Ubuntu forums one... gah...
<MadpilotPPC> Kamping_Kaiser, you going to have a go at that Archives page?
<Kamping_Kaiser> um. spose i could. :/
<Kamping_Kaiser> i should, but i might do it later.
<mdke> hi all
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi mdke :)
<MadpilotPPC> hi mdke 
<spayne> yo all
<kbrooks> Hey all.
<mdke> hi
<Burglaptop> salut
<kbrooks> Long time no see :P
#ubuntu-doc 2005-10-08
* jbailey sits down to fix the about-ubuntu FF page, and the entity errors.
<ajmitch> hi jbailey 
<jbailey> Heya Andrew
<jbailey> ajmitch: I could just solve all my problems my dropping it all in /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-docs and mapping the whole subtree onto there, couldn't I?
<jbailey> It's a bit ugly. =(
<jbailey> Do you happen to remember what Debian policy for docs is off hand?
<jbailey> (Since you were forced to read it much more recently than I. *g*)
<ajmitch> umm
<ajmitch> what are you suggesting to drop in /usr/share/doc ?
<jbailey> about-ubuntu and the faqguide, but the docbook files.
<jbailey> Or I could keep them all in /usr/share/ubuntu-docs
<ajmitch> Any additional documentation that comes with the package may be installed at the discretion of the package maintainer. Text documentation should be installed in the directory /usr/share/doc/package, where package is the name of the package, and compressed with gzip -9 unless it is small.
<jbailey> I've always thought that docs in /usr/share/doc should be generally human usable with a commandline tool installed in base.
<jbailey> Hmm.
<jbailey> Is XML text? =)
<ajmitch> so you can throw anything you want in there if you take that loosely :)
<ajmitch> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-docs.html
<ajmitch> sure
<jbailey> Tx
<ajmitch> PDFs & PS are often found in /usr/share/doc
<jbailey> If your package comes with extensive documentation in a markup format that can be converted to various other formats you should if possible ship HTML versions in a binary package, in the directory /usr/share/doc/appropriate-package or its subdirectories.[76] 
<jbailey> Great, so I'll just move it there, so they retain easy access to common.
<ajmitch> ok
<jbailey> I think it's ugly, but I think it would be error prone for me to go through and tweak all the entities to allow me to change hte imgpath on the fly. =)
<ajmitch> I'd say it would be very very bad to try & do that all :)
<jbailey> Right, things in /usr/share/doc get randomly compressed by debhelper.
<jbailey> Forgot that amusement. =)
<jbailey> Anyone know if ccache can be used with xsltproc? =)
<jbailey> Ah, doesn't look like it.
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol.
<jbailey> No more entity errors now to get the image.
<jbailey> Woohoo!  No entity errors *and* and image.
<jbailey> Now to repeat 30 times for the other languages. =)
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol. wd :)
* jbailey prepares for heavy sed fu.
* Kamping_Kaiser re-adds sed to 'must learn' list
<jbailey> sed is fun:
<jbailey> sed -i -e 's#usr/share/ubuntu-docs/\(.*\)/faqguide#usr/share/ubuntu-docs/generic/faqguide/\1#' install
<jbailey> Simple thing that would just be annoying to write in a reliable way without regular expressions.
<MadpilotPPC> translated into English, what does that mean?
<jbailey> -i means replace-in-place.
<jbailey> So edit the file you're sed'ing directly.
<jbailey> -e is the regular expression.
<jbailey> install is the file I was working on.
<jbailey> When the regular expression starts with s, it's a search and replace.
<jbailey> The next character is the delimiter.  Traditionally you'll see /, but since I'm working with pathnames, that would suck.
<jbailey> So the first clause:
<jbailey> usr/share/ubuntu-docs/\(.*\)/faqguide
<jbailey> Says match the real text of usr/share/ubuntu-docs/
<jbailey> . means any character.
<jbailey> * means the previous character zero or more times.
<jbailey> regexps will always match as little as possible.
<jbailey> so when I have text after that, it will match before the .* does.
<jbailey> Wrapping it in ( ) means that I can use it as a variable in the second clause:
<jbailey> usr/share/ubuntu-docs/generic/faqguide/\1
<jbailey> Where \1 is the contents of the ( )
<jbailey> Refering to () set 1
<jbailey> So:
<jbailey> usr/share/ubuntu-docs/sv/faqguide
<jbailey> Becomes
<jbailey> usr/share/ubuntu-docs/generic/faqguide/sv
<MadpilotPPC> huh
* MadpilotPPC adds regexp to my 'really got to figure that out' list, which is already far too long...
<MadpilotPPC> ;)
<Kamping_Kaiser> >.< brain hurts
<jbailey> MadpilotPPC: I finally had someone explain to me how it all works internally.
<jbailey> *that* made my brain hurt.
<jsgotangco> jbailey, speak in english please heh
<jbailey> jsgotangco: Whups, sorry.  What part of that did I explain poorly?
<jbailey> I usually try to be clear.  regular expressions make it a bit hard, though. =)
<ajmitch> jbailey: they're fun though :)
<jsgotangco> jbailey, nah i was just messing with you
<ajmitch> jbailey: so what's planned for the 29th so far? :)
<jbailey> ajmitch: 29th?  No idea.
<jbailey> I plan to get alot of sleep in prep for the 30th. =)
<ajmitch> we start on the 30th, right?
<ajmitch> or at least the love day is then
<jbailey> yup
* ajmitch had better get his id ready for keysignings :)
* Burgundavia needs to do the same
<jsgotangco> UBZ keysigning would be bigger for sure compared to UDU
<ajmitch> so what name should I go under? :)
<jsgotangco> *sigh*
<jbailey> ajmitch: James Blackwell
<ajmitch> jbailey: I couldn't take that away from you
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: why is that?
<jsgotangco> because more devels outside ubuntu can actually come?
<ajmitch> maybe, though I'm not sure just how many will turn up for such a thing
<jbailey> ajmitch: There are always junkies. =)
<ajmitch> hah
<jsgotangco> the "gotta catch (get) 'em all" types?
<ajmitch> you mean apart from the ones who fly halfway across the world for it? ;)
<jsgotangco> hehe
<ajmitch> jbailey: I'll need to do the tourist thing for a bit after UBZ, I think :)
<jsgotangco> would be nice to watch hockey if its in season
<jsgotangco> or watch the expos
<jbailey> Aren't they still on strike?
<Burgundavia> jbailey, negatory
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, expos moved to Washington
<jsgotangco> oohhh so montreal doesn't have baseball anymore
<Burgundavia> nope
<jsgotangco> i'd like to see circuit de gille villeneuve if i had the chance
<jbailey> Wow.  The about-ubuntu stylesheet crashes firefox.
<jbailey> Gotta love it.
<jbailey> Especailly now that it's the start page on my box. =)
* jbailey removes the stylesheet again.
<jbailey> When did Montral losethe baseball team?
<jbailey> Apparently I'm just right not up to date on sports  atm. =)
<Burgundavia> 2003
<Burgundavia> because they sucked
<jbailey> Righ.
<jbailey> I still miss the Grizzlies. =)
<jbailey> They had the best half-time shows.
<Burgundavia> they are thinking about moving the New Orleans team to Vancouver
<jbailey> And big-as-a-country would just kinda toddle across the court and throw people out of his way.
<jbailey> And if the ref didn't notice, he might score a baske.
<jbailey> Ahahah
<jbailey> On the grounds that it can't be worse?
<Burgundavia> yes
<jbailey> Or that most of Vancouver is already underwater, so they're ready for it this time? =)
<jsgotangco> canada isn't just a basketball country
<Burgundavia> sweet, cbc lockout might be ending
<Burgundavia> http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/10/03/CBCLO20051003.html?ref=rss
<jbailey> That'll be nice.
<Burgundavia> I emailed Keith Martin about evil ads on the cbc website
<Burgundavia> he told me he supports the idea
* Burgundavia wishes CBC was as gutsy and bold as the BBC
<jbailey> evil ads/
<jbailey> ?
<Burgundavia> CBC.ca is running dell ads
<jsgotangco> jbailey, montreal is still predominantly francophone right?
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, mixed
<jbailey> Depends where you are.
<jbailey> I'd say 60% though.
<Burgundavia> the largest group of anglophones in Quebec is in Montreal
<jbailey> It was more in the summer.  Now that the McGill students are in town, even the hardcore franco areas have alot of English.
<Burgundavia> people who decry it when the server serves then in French first
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: you can be my translator then  ;)
<jbailey> ajmitch: Maudite, Je peux le faire aussi. ;)
<Burgundavia> ajmitch, everybody in Montreal speaks English, but they might not understand UpSideDownTalk
<jsgotangco> aussi?
<jsgotangco> hehe
<jsgotangco> lol
<ajmitch> jbailey: :)
<Burgundavia> plus they really don't speak French in Quebec, they speak Quebecois
<jsgotangco> ahh aussi is a different word
* ajmitch will still need a translator from kiwi into canadian ;)
<jbailey> Tahberrrrnak, what do zhyou mean by 'dat, hein?
<jsgotangco> and Quebecois is like those african french thing?
* Burgundavia might be a salesperson for non-free software soon...
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, depends on location and person
<jbailey> Hmm.
<jsgotangco> what a place =)
<Burgundavia> street slang is pretty odd
<jbailey> I should probably make the html version still display the about-ubuntu logo, shouldn't I?
<ajmitch> it could be a good idea
<jsgotangco> jbailey, yeah
<jbailey> Damn, kills the symlink idea.
<ajmitch> why?
<jbailey> Because the img src link is realative to the installed location of the html.
<jbailey> Not the /usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/index.html it's expecting.
<ajmitch> symlink the image as well?
<ajmitch> hello jsg_ 
<ajmitch> dsl issues?
<jsg_> yeah
<jsg_> its raining hard outside
<ajmitch> ah
<jsg_> usually when it rains the telephone service gets borked
* Burgundavia is glad he lives in a country where that doesn't happen
<ajmitch> here we just have rats ;)
<jsg_> yeah its typhoon season over here
<jsg_> until november
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia, if you live in a 3rd world country, you'll be living like a millionaire
<jsgotangco> a pack of smokes here costs .50 cents US
<Burgundavia> I have already experienced that
<Burgundavia> gas in indonesia doubled to 44cent a litre
<jsgotangco> gas in this region (except singapore) is relatively more cheaper compared to the usa
<Kinnison> Morning
<Burgundavia> morning Kinnison 
<Kinnison> hey corey
<jbailey> Uploaded now.
<MadpilotPPC> so I've found a good source of information for everyone going to Montreal... ;)  http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Canada_%28Nation%29
<jbailey> Got, 2:30, time for sleep.
<jbailey> MadpilotPPC: I'll be posting some stuff on the wiki this week.
<rob^> jbailey
<jbailey> I've got a bunch of info on cheap museum passes and such.
<rob^> what was up with that revision?
<jbailey> I've had some out of town guests recently, so I stole their research. =)
<jbailey> rob^: Eh?
<jbailey> Which one?
<rob^> 1838
<rob^> -    <title>Ubuntu 5.10 Starter Guide</title>
<rob^> +    <title>Unofficial Ubuntu 5.10 Starter Guide</title>
<jbailey> That string shouldn't change after DocumentationStringFreeze.
<jbailey> mdke is going to take it to the TB on Tuesday.
<jbailey> Or to matt sooner, I guess.
<jbailey> Either way is fine, but without approval, I can't upload that change.
<jsgotangco> err
<jsgotangco> its an omf file
<rob^> oh ok, its just that its totally wrong
<jbailey> Which contains localised strings.
<jbailey> Oh, I agree it's wrong.
<MadpilotPPC> jbailey, the Uncyclopedia is... not the most reliable source of actual information, but it's entertaining. I wasn't actually going to add it to any of the UBZ pages...
<jbailey> MadpilotPPC: *lol*
<MadpilotPPC> I was tempted to add it, though... ;)
<rob^> heh, they have a good page on "new" Venice
<jbailey> rob^: I just can't randomly break the freeze.  It's always appeared that way in every upload.  I just need a hand wave from mdz, kamion or sabdfl to say that it's okay.
<jbailey> rob^: Are you randomly reading the logs, or arae they mailed to some mailing list?
<rob^> jbailey, ok I'll wait and see what happens then
<rob^> jbailey, mailing list
<rob^> ubuntu-doc-commits
<jbailey> Ah, neat didn't know about it.
<jbailey> ajmitch: Another way you can stalk me. =)
<rob^> heh
<jbailey> rob^: Or someone could poke sabdfl now in #ubuntu-devel and such.
<rob^> I keep a pretty good eye on it
<jbailey> But it's 02h35 and I need to go to sleep. =)
<rob^> does any of those three know about this issue yet?
<jbailey> I doubt it.
<jbailey> I think mdke and I spoke about it Friday night or so.
<rob^> ok
<rob^> well night then :)
<jsgotangco> jeezz why do i have to bear the suffering of using centos for this review
<rob^> are you reviewing centos?
<jsgotangco> no i won an rhce exam pack and centos is basically rhel
<rob^> oh
<HrdwrBob> heh RHCE
<HrdwrBob> if you're doing it in sydney/melbourne I know one of the main guys :)
<jsgotangco> HrdwrBob, don't start, i wont and its free...heh
* rob^ looks at his mcse exam pack and thinks he should finish it
<jsgotangco> HrdwrBob, probably in brisbane
<mdke> jbailey, hey you fixed the faqguide?
<mdke> awesome
<jbailey> mdke: That's the theory.
<jbailey> flame away if I'm wrong. =)
<rob^> what was broken?
<mdke> i'll let you know later
<jbailey> It was just the missing bits like the fdl and such, right?
<mdke> rob^, links
<mdke> jbailey, rob sent a list of things that are missing to the list
<mdke> lemme find it
<rob^> mdke, which ones?
<mdke> jbailey, http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.doc/3264
<mdke> jbailey, are the links to samples/ and the entities working too?
<jsgotangco> mdke, hi
<rob^> oh cool
<mdke> jsgotangco, heya, nice work on the RHCE
<jsgotangco> mdke, im gonna be low-key for a while after breezy
<mdke> np
* Burgundavia worried that his new job might lead to curtailed activities with Ubuntu as well
* rob^ is going back onto shift work, so I will probably have even more time
<jsgotangco> if i had all the time in the world, i would, but i also have to start sorting things out
<mdke> jsgotangco, that's cool. What are you going to be up to?
<jbailey> Where do I find those things?
<jbailey> The commons and the FDL are working.
<jbailey> But I don't see where Credits and License is, etc.
<jbailey> Found feedback, it works.
<jsgotangco> libs?
<mdke> jbailey, not sure
<mdke> rob^ might know
<rob^> jbailey, yeah I had to change a few things to get the two licences going 
<jsgotangco> or common
<jsgotangco> common/C
<mdke> the sample/ stuff is in the faqguide/C directory
<rob^> although I noticed they arn't working in the latest package (although this might be older then when I made the update)
<jbailey> rob^: If you could check again with 5.10-5, that would be really appreciated.
<mdke> i gtg to work
<mdke> catch y'all later
<jsgotangco> someone deleted my edubuntu script too, i just noticed 2 days ago (it was probably deleted for quite some time)
<jbailey> C'ya mdke 
<jbailey> Sleep now, back in a few hours. =)
<rob^> as for credits and licence, I have know idea why they arn't working in the package, they work fine with the .xml file in branch
<jsgotangco> brb
<rob^> I guess it isn't a good thing that after climing thru roofs f
<rob^> oops
<rob^> dam up key
<ajmitch> :)
<jsgotangco> what the heck are you doing
<ajmitch> it's that fibreglass eating into your brain
<rob^> yeah my eyes are quite sore
<rob^> cabling
<rob^> hey the finally replaced the gnome foot with the ubuntu logo
<jsgotangco> yes
<rob^> its been about a month since I've logged off and rebooted..
<rob^> bout time :)
<ajmitch> my laptop gets restarted a bit more often, so I noticed it there :)
<kbrooks> Seems like a wiki page still has those marillat repositories in -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RestrictedFormats
<Kamping_Kaiser> is ubuntu-doc teams territory anything that involves doco? like the wiki?
<kbrooks> think so (not sure).
<Kamping_Kaiser> hm. ok.
<WaterSevenUb> hey guys... what is the URL for the FAQ guide generated from the translations?
<mdke> jbailey, around?
<mdke> jbailey, i'm writing my proposal for the TB regarding that omf string. You mentioned the other day that there are some translations of it, but in the branch all I can see are copies of the English version. What languages have translations for that string, do you know?
<mdke> WaterSevenUb, /usr/share/ubuntu-docs/
<jbailey> mdke: Lemme look
<jbailey> Hmm, this is faqguide, isn't it...
<jbailey> y'know, maybe all the translations are new...
<mdke> jbailey, all I can see are copies of the english omf file
<jbailey> If we used the string "Ubuntu FAQ Guide", we could use that string to *get* a translation.
<mdke> yeah
<mdke> same with the little paragraph underneath it
<jbailey> Right.
<jbailey> So we could argue for unifying that, and just using those translations.
<mdke> oh no
<mdke> what would we do with the paragraph under the "Unofficial ..." bit?
<mdke> i can't find a suitable introduction in the faqguide that might be translated
<mdke> there used to be one, but it looks like it was removed
<jbailey> Given that it's not a huge string change, it might just be worth asking mdz directly then.
<jbailey> Or Kamion might be abl to just approve it.
<mdke> hang on
<mdke> if we change it as you have suggested, and get the translations, we will be left with a title (translated) and that little intro paragraph (not translated)
<mdke> unless we remove that intro paragraph from the translated omf's
<mdke> jbailey, follow me?
<jbailey> Yup
<jbailey> The biggest trick is that I don't have the authority to approve any of these changes, so we need to ask one of them.
<mdke> sure
<jbailey> But it sounds simple enough to do that we could just ask one of them directly.
<mdke> jbailey, i'm just trying to figure out what to ask for
<jbailey> mdke: I would honestly be inclined to ask for the name changes, and the chance to localise what's possible.
<mdke> are we asking to remove the paragraph, or to remove it from the translations?
<jbailey> The paragraph can probably stay in English for now.
<jbailey> And next time we know to make a pofile out of that, too.
<mdke> that would look odd with a translated title though
<mdke> i would tend to go for leaving it all in english
<mdke> or taking out the paragraph
<jbailey> Given that the target document might be translated, someone could ignore the English and get the document at least.
<jbailey> They'll be used to random bits of Englihs popping up.
<jbailey> Since the link is in their language, it gives them a hint that using it might be what they want.
<jbailey> (I they don't speak a word of English)
<mdke> the important thing is to make it clear that the doc is translated
<jbailey> Right.
<jbailey> Which I think the title will do.
* mdke nods
<mdke> ok i'll build that into my email
<mdke> and send it to kamion and mdz too
<jbailey> Who are you emailing aside from those two?
<mdke> the doc list
<mdke> i was just going to email the list and then link to it from the TB agenda
<jbailey> 'k
<mdke> anyhow I'll copy you in too
<mdke> need to get my head down at work for a while now
<mdke> so see ya later
<jbailey> I've been looking at the about-ubuntu page as transformed to HTML.
<jbailey> I'm wondering it it's actually possible to make docbook output pretty.
<jjesse> quick question: how is kubuntu capitalized?  KUbuntu or Kubuntu?  I get confused
<Kamping_Kaiser> Kubuntu
<Kamping_Kaiser> 'cos KUbuntu looks strange :D
<Kamping_Kaiser> it looks like a typo :D
<jjesse> grin I did kubuntu
<Kamping_Kaiser> :P
<highvoltage> where can i find the ubuntu irc logs again?
<highvoltage> sorry, found it.
<kbrooks> bk
<WaterSevenUb> anyone can tell me when will the very last translations of FAQ Guide from rosetta be used for Breezy?
<WaterSevenUb> is the deadline over?
<WaterSevenUb> I thought the ubuntu guide was a langpack thing... not a "nonlangpack".
<jbailey> Sadly, no.
<jbailey> That'll change for dapper.
<jbailey> But it's too late to get it in the langpacks for Breezy.
<WaterSevenUb> jbailey, I see, thanks. So there is no chance people will open an exception on ubuntu guide and update translations after 6th October?
<WaterSevenUb> jabiley, I mean, before the 13th.
<jbailey> No, the NonLangpackTranslations time has passed. =(
<WaterSevenUb> jabiley, damn it... PT team was counting on the 6th of October:)
<WhispSil> it's strange that the FAQ's are considered as nonlangpack
<WaterSevenUb> whispsil, I guess it's more a technical issue than other thing... but still... what a pitty:)
<WaterSevenUb> the problem now is that we will have like 150 strings untranslated randomly.... when there is actual a full translation in Rosetta....
<WaterSevenUb> that would be certainly very confusing for the final user.
<WaterSevenUb> would=will
<WhispSil> well i dont think it will be that strange for the user, it's rather normal to see things like this
<WhispSil> it's sad because it lowers the quality feeling toward the user
<WaterSevenUb> jbailey, freezes are sometimes flexible, do you think this is not such a case for flexibility?
<jbailey> I think that we're 3 days from an RC release, and 10 days from final release.
<jbailey> And that I'm certainly not willing to go argue the point to the very busy release manager or the very busy CTO. =)
<WaterSevenUb> :)
<jbailey> The nice part is pitti and I know what it will take to make it langpack'd for dapper.
<jbailey> There will be weekly snapshots.
<jbailey> So all told, documentation is going to be more present through the release cycle.
<jbailey> I think that's the best we can generally hope for, and see what we need to change when it come to the end of that cycle.
<WaterSevenUb> one thing that I'm afraid is that the langpack grows such that it has to be removed from the CD....
<WhispSil> do you think that will be the case?
<WaterSevenUb> and many new users would give up immediately if they can't see things in their own language....
<WhispSil> if the packages number stay rather stable, it shouldn't happend
<kbrooks> October 6, Ubuntu breezy RC will be released?
<kbrooks> :O
<WaterSevenUb> whispsil, well... perhaps for inclusion of documentation that will not be the case.... but space is very scarse and I think langpacks in AMD64 ISO suffered restrictions or were removed...
<WhispSil> i didn't know
<WaterSevenUb> whispsil, I'm not sure:)
<hyperactivecrond> what happened to the install guide?
<hyperactivecrond> oops 
<hyperactivecrond> it says "now hiring" - I'll write it...
<mdke> jbailey, i am not going to give up on the idea of ubuntu-docs language updates :)
<jbailey> mdke: I'm not asking you to. =)
<mdke> course not
<mdke> i didn't mean that
<mdke> jbailey, you think it is unrealistic/a bad idea?
<WaterSevenUb> mdke, well... in the case of translations made by our team... we know that the translations do not follow the same general properties from string to string since we didn't review them... it would be great to update that in the future.
<WaterSevenUb> mdke, somehow :)
<WaterSevenUb> mdke, we were caught by confusion with deadlines as I said before....
<jbailey> mdke: No, it's just something I can't persue right at the moment.
<jbailey> upload to main are now on-approval only for everything.
<mdke> jbailey, sure, i was just interested in your opinion on prospects of success :) i think it will be something to address after the breezy release dust has settled
<HrdwrBob> pursue
<jbailey> mdke: I only think that everything's incredibly busy right now, 
<jbailey> mdke: Given that Colin said he doesn't mind, you've got a good shot at it.
<hyperactivecrond> so can i be "hired" ot do the install guide?
<hyperactivecrond> obv for no $
#ubuntu-doc 2005-10-09
<jbailey> hyperactivecrond: Do you mean for breezy or for dapper?
<hyperactivecrond> what's dapper/
<hyperactivecrond> nvm
<kbrooks> hyperactivecrond: dapper == next version of ubuntu after breezy
<hyperactivecrond> eerr.... i'll do breezy next
<hyperactivecrond> oops
<hyperactivecrond> s/next/now
<jbailey> hyperactivecrond: Breezy may be harder, since it's so close to release.
<kbrooks> whats a string freeze
<jbailey> It's the point at which no visible text can change in Ubuntu so that Translators can translate it.
<hyperactivecrond> i guess i'll do dapper
<hyperactivecrond> how far are we along with dapper? /me checks wiki
<kbrooks> jbailey: visible text?
<hyperactivecrond> kbrooks: the docs
<hyperactivecrond> can't change
<kbrooks> hyperactivecrond: docs on the wiki?
<jbailey> Things like the "File, Edit, Bookmarks"
<jbailey> Any message that pops up and tells you something.
<jbailey> Basically any text you see displayed to you.
<kbrooks> erm, the ubuntu wiki
* jbailey heads out for 30m
<hyperactivecrond> kbrooks: yep
<hyperactivecrond> i think
<kbrooks> hyperactivecrond: no...
<kbrooks> grr...
<kbrooks> THE ubuntu wiki
<kbrooks> THIS: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/
<hyperactivecrond> kbrooks: chill
<hyperactivecrond> not necessarily on the wiki but on the actual ubuntu-docs part
<hyperactivecrond> so... it's gonna take 2 years to build 'drake then...
<MadpilotPPC> hi Burgundavia 
<Burgundavia> salut MadpilotPPC 
<Burgundavia> working 12 hours a day sucks
<MadpilotPPC> how'd you manage that?
<Burgundavia> two jobs
<Burgundavia> started today with Userful
<Burgundavia> still working at Booster Juice
<MadpilotPPC> congratulations - what's Userful like?
<Burgundavia> interesting
<MadpilotPPC> good-intersting or hmm-interesting-interesting?
<Burgundavia> good-interesting
<MadpilotPPC> what exactly are you goning to be doing?
<Burgundavia> sales
<MadpilotPPC> locally or travelling?
<Burgundavia> but later I will probably get a carte blanche to do whatever I want
<Burgundavia> locally, but with travel
<MadpilotPPC> that sounds potentially entertaining...
<MadpilotPPC> they're going to give you time off for UBZ?
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> part of the deal of me starting there
<MadpilotPPC> very cool.
<MadpilotPPC> you free tomorrow night to come put a dent in Tony's beer supply?
<Burgundavia> nope
<Burgundavia> friday night I am though
<MadpilotPPC> cool - that's the last night I've got this place, too - Tony & mob get back Saturday afternoon sometime
<jsgotangco> what does userful and booster juice do?
<jsgotangco> and what do you do there exactly
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, at booster juice I make juice and smoothies
<Burgundavia> userful sells multiseat linux
<Burgundavia> MadpilotPPC, interesting, GVPL is the largest deployment of useful so far
<MadpilotPPC> good for us. I knew we were early adopters, but not that we were the biggest customer!
<jsgotangco> i'd like to be a barista for once...
<jsgotangco> hmmm userful looks interesting
<MadpilotPPC> it's pretty slick, actually. One tower supporting up to six terminals, each with a floppy drive and access to the CD burner on the tower.
<Burgundavia> sadly non-free
<MadpilotPPC> actually, more than six. Our largest cluster is 8, and it seems the website claims up to 10 per tower
<jsgotangco> is this like xen????
<MadpilotPPC> jsgotangco, no idea what's going on in the guts of these things...
<jsgotangco> voodoo
<jsgotangco> very sure of that
<MadpilotPPC> that's what's happening in the guts of *every* computer, though ;)
<MadpilotPPC> the ones that run ten terminals from one tower just have extra-heavy voodoo!
<Burgundavia> it is basically a hacked multiseat
<Burgundavia> all the foo is done at the X level
<jsgotangco> so you're going to sell voodoo crack
<Burgundavia> no, I am selling non-free voodoo crack
<MadpilotPPC> even better... hey, it's got to be better than selling fancy fruit shakes, yeah?
<jsgotangco> its business its their right if they want to be non-free
<Burgundavia> and I am going to have to hammer out my work regarding Ubuntu, as they see Ubuntu as a potentional competitor
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, indeed
<Burgundavia> MadpilotPPC, yes
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia, send them your ubuntu business card
<jsgotangco> heheh
<Burgundavia> they are selling something that libraries (their primary customers) need
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> i;ve read about this before
<jsgotangco> at first they targetted the academe
<MadpilotPPC> Userful has open-sourced some of their stuff, it looks like... http://userful.com/products/pre-book
<Burgundavia> ya
<Burgundavia> note that that is simply the client
<Burgundavia> actually pretty useless
<MadpilotPPC> hey, it's a start on getting more opensourced stuff from Userful...
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> god Heinz ketchup is sweet
<Burgundavia> it tastes like sugary tomato
<mdke> morning
<jsgotangco> hey mdke 
<MadpilotPPC> evening, mdke 
<mdke> sup?
<jsgotangco> bug squashing
<mdke> great
<mdke> i'm dist-upgrading my girlfriend's computer
<mdke> jsgotangco, PM
<jsgotangco> lots of old documentation bugs in bugzilla that needs to be closed/reviewed
<mdke> how are the current bugs getting on?
<mdke> about ubuntu css, faqguide entities etc
<jsgotangco> well the problem is that i can't change the status
<jsgotangco> ahh the entities
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> it looks really bad on FF
<mdke> the bugs are all open :)
<jsgotangco> mdke, and our qa is the list itself
<mdke> actually I tend to just assign them straght to jeff
<jsgotangco> yes that's what we've done to some bugs a few hours ago
<mdke> bet he's happy :)
<jsgotangco> we'll have a ball during the merge in a few weeks
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, any idea how that is going to happen?
<Burgundavia> are they going to mass import from bugzilla?
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia, the merge?
<mdke> should be easy for us
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, ya
<mdke> there are alread some bugs open in malone on ubuntu-docs :)
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia, no idea yet, but ubuntu-docs itself shouldn't be in malone really
<mdke> ?
<Burgundavia> no
<mdke> why not?
<jsgotangco> mdke, because its a main package
<Burgundavia> it should target the actual doc
<mdke> i thought everything is moving there?
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, that is not a big deal
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, with the switch coming so soon..
<jsgotangco> i don't think the switch will be happening till dapper
<Burgundavia> yes, but we will switch once dapper opens
<jsgotangco> we still have enrico zini and mako bugs open
<jsgotangco> around 22 total
* mdke goes for a shower
<jsgotangco> (not that much really)
* Burgundavia has now finished going through his email, rss feeds and other news
<robitaille> that's a nice picture of Canonical One: http://picavia.foxalpha.com/picture.php?Airport=27&id=3376&size=M
<MadpilotPPC> shiny airplane... nice. Several million dollars worth of nice...
<jsgotangco> hmm its a bombardier
<MadpilotPPC> Made In Canada ;)
<jsgotangco> i didnt konw hbd was a bombardier
<jsgotangco> the hbd logo is a big obscure
<jsgotangco> but familiar if one sees it
<robitaille> http://www.netsplit.com/travel/2005/australia/canonical-one/canonical-one-021.html
<robitaille> has a closeup of the tail
<jsgotangco> wonder how much is the fuel of that thing
<mdke> ah damn the dist-upgrade has crashed synaptic
<jsgotangco> rob^, yep that's it alright
* robitaille should stop looking for nice pictures for his talk and put actual content on his slides...
<MadpilotPPC> if the caption information on that picavia site is right, that's not Canonical-1 - the reg isn't right
<jsgotangco> MadpilotPPC, yeah but the tail is HBD
<MadpilotPPC> meh... my bad, it is too. 
<Burgundavia> mdke, I had my laptop power off during a kernel upgrade. I was lucky it came back up
<MadpilotPPC> I thought the actual reg # contained "HBD"
<robitaille> MadpilotPPC,  I think its a lease, so that's probably why the registration info seems a bit weird
<Burgundavia> MadpilotPPC, did you know that the Royal Hudson ended service in 2001?
<Burgundavia> robitaille, an exclusive lease however
<MadpilotPPC> Burgundavia, I knew it had ended... too bad.
<jsgotangco> wonder how much those things cost to maintain everyday...
<MadpilotPPC> fairly serious $$$
<Burgundavia> MadpilotPPC, seems they had a problem with breaking locos
<MadpilotPPC> Burgundavia, they were/are antiques... still too bad it's not running
<jsgotangco> hmm makes sense to lease a plane rather than own it
<MadpilotPPC> leasing still involves fairly serious money, though
<jsgotangco> well it only shows his pockets are much deeper than ours
<Burgundavia> quite
<MadpilotPPC> I rent Cessnas... those are expensive enough! ;)
<HrdwrBob> rent a learjet
<MadpilotPPC> fat chance
<MadpilotPPC> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DefaultHomePage  <-- just noticed this going past in RecentChanges - I like the idea
<mdke> what is it?
<mdke> (no browser)
<Burgundavia> mdke, a proposal for a useful default FF homepage
<Burgundavia> unlike the current text mash
<mdke> aha
<mdke> the default homepage should be fridge.ubuntu.com IMO
<mdke> :)
<Burgundavia> my thoughts exactly
<jsgotangco> guys not all people have a working internet at the start
<mdke> jsgotangco, it's an internet browser!!!!!!!!!
<MadpilotPPC> inspired by the various default pages used by the browsers themselves - the FF/Moz/Google startpage, etc
<mdke> this local file crap is insane
<mdke> people won't use it unless they have internet
<jsgotangco> i'd rather have something local
<mdke> because it is in the "internet" section of the menu
<HrdwrBob> I don't understand how people can use COMPUTERS without a connection to the internet
<mdke> lol
* mdke goes to work
<HrdwrBob> IMHO 'twould be best if at config time if it has any network connection
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, I understand where you are coming from
<HrdwrBob> use frige, otherwise, use the local file
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, we live in parts of the world where internet is 1)cheap 2)fast 3)reliable
<mdke> that's not why i'm saying it
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia, yes but half of the globe still doesn't have decent internet (we do though)
<mdke> i don't think everyone should have internet
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, yes
<mdke> but people should only use firefox if they have internet, or develop web pages
<jsgotangco> that's why the CDs are shipped in the first place
<HrdwrBob> is it possible to do this with some javascript or something?
<HrdwrBob> I don't think so
<Burgundavia> ngith all
* Burgundavia needs to do another 12 hour day tomorrow, and the next and the next
<jsgotangco> oh cool i have edit privs on bugzilla now
<poningru> guys question
<poningru> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyUpgradeNotes
<poningru> shouldnt 1. come as a pre-upgrade warning
<poningru> err not warning but you know what I mean
<jsgotangco> err who did this?
<poningru> ?
<poningru> oh edit privs nm
<jsgotangco> mdke, #9082 doesn't existing in breezy
<jsgotangco> lol i received spam email from Mr. Abdul Jabar
<jsgotangco> hehe
<jsgotangco> surely not Kareem Abdul Jabar though
<jsgotangco> hmmm ubuntu-docs is 10MB?
<Kinnison> Morning
<jsgotangco> hi Kinnison 
<rob^> ?
<Kinnison> hi jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> hey rob^ what's with the ?
<rob^> I just noticed you mentioned my name before
<jsgotangco> oh i've totally forgotten about it..its probably this morning
<rob^> yeah about two hours ago, I think it was just a typo
<jsgotangco> man that about ubuntu in firefox is butt ugly
<rob^> yeah?
<jsgotangco> yeah
<rob^> new ubuntu-docs package
<rob^> there is still a page missing from the faq though
<jsgotangco> dude its 10MB
<rob^> the package or the faq?
<jsgotangco> the package
<jsgotangco> wonder why it came to 10mb
<rob^> well the page that is missing should already be in the xml file for the faq guide in branch, it just isn't displaying in yelp for some reason
<rob^> 10mb does seem large though, maybe that includes all the other non distro docs too
<jsgotangco> oh no
<jsgotangco> that's only ubuntu-docs
<rob^> well what can I say? I just couldn't stop writing ;P
<jsgotangco> did the faqguide have images?
<rob^> no
<jsgotangco> hmm wonder what those italian docs have that contained images
<rob^> it had a few example files, but they were only text files (nothing big)
<jjesse> ok just committed everything that i had in trunk to branches/breezy so those are ready for updated packages
<jbailey> jjesse: Thanks for KDE?
<jbailey> s/Thanks/Thats/ =)
<jbailey> (But thanks, too! *g*)
<jjesse> yup for kde
<jjesse> sorry was afk working :)
<jsgotangco> hi
<jjesse> morning jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> there's a TB meeting later right?
<jjesse> tb?
<jsgotangco> technical board
<jdub> hmm
<jdub> dudes
<jdub> i'm doing some initial category icons for the fridge
<jdub> would you prefer a life preserver or a big fat book for the doc team icon?
<jdub> not necessarily permanent, we can change at any time
<jdub> the fat book is the gdict icon
<jsgotangco> hmmm i like the life preserver
<Kamping_Kaiser> fwiw, id go with the book :|
<jsgotangco> what is the motu icon? hehe
<jdub> jsgotangco: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/taxonomy/term/24
* jsgotangco hopes its not heman
<jdub> haven't got an icon for the motu team yet
<jdub> nor kernel team
<jsgotangco> hmm on second thought..the life preserver does not connect at all...
<jdub> might use tux for it
<jdub> jsgotangco: perhaps we should do a book with a life preserver emblem on it
<jsgotangco> yeah that would be better
<jdub> /usr/share/icons/hicolor/24x24/apps/gnome-help.png on a book
<jsgotangco> mmm not bad
<jsgotangco> not to big, not too small
<jjesse> did everyone see mark shuttleworth's wiki entry on slashdot yesterday?
<jsgotangco> heh i read it a few minutes after he pressed "save"
<jbailey> jdub: Teams get icons? =)
<jbailey> jdub: I feel behind.  I've never bothered trying to make a hackergotchi even.
* jbailey is so 1990's sometimes...
<jsgotangco> same here
<jsgotangco> hehe
* jbailey turns on Nirvana
<jdub> jbailey: slack :)
<jjesse> whats a hackergotchi?
<jsgotangco> jjesse: its that face icon in blogs
<jsgotangco> like in planet gnome / planet ubuntu
<jjesse> oh
<jsgotangco> sometimes its a face, sometimes a full body shot
* Kamping_Kaiser feels interweb going downhill :/ (mho)
<jdub> jjesse: it's described well in wikipedia :-)
* jdub beams :-)
<jjesse> was too lazy to look it up
<jsgotangco> hey mr. mgalvin
<mgalvin> hey jsgotangco
<mgalvin> hows things
<jsgotangco> ahh just cleaning up
<jsgotangco> we've uploaded docs as well
<mgalvin> cool, i've been so bust lately, barely time to breath
<mgalvin> s/bust/busy/
<jsgotangco> no worries =)
<jsgotangco>  Wikipedia does not yet have a page called Jeff Waugh. Would you like to search for Jeff Waugh in Wikipedia?
<jsgotangco> hehe
<jsgotangco> bleah im going to sleep early
<jsgotangco> night
<Kamping_Kaiser> ngiht
<jjesse> please don't update the kreleasenotes into a package or anything
<jjesse> i spoke with Riddell  today and have major changes to it to make before it is ready to go
<jjesse> thanks
<mdke> jjesse, we haven't touched the kubuntu docs
<mdke> packaging is still being done by Sean afaik
<jjesse> oh
<Riddell> I havn't heard form sean in a while
<Riddell> we kinday need a new upload right after RC
<mdke> i see
<mdke> not a lot that I can do to help I'm afraid
<mdke> i don't know packaging
<jjesse> i think jbailey mentioned something last night w/ me about working on packaging thigns up
<jjesse> which is why i moved all my changes over to branches/breezy from trunk/kde
<mdke> good
<mdke> best contact sean to liase that
<Riddell> the prepdeb.sh script seems to expect a debian directory, any idea where that is jjesse ?
<jjesse> Riddell: packaging is a little beyond me, i have no idea how sean set things up :(
<jjesse> i guess i can learn how to package
<Riddell> well somewhere abouts there must be a debian directory, just need to find it
<jbailey> jjesse: I can help with packaging. =)
<jbailey> jjesse: What do you need?
<Riddell> jbailey: the debian directory for the kubuntu docs
<jbailey> In svn or from the current uploaded package?
<Riddell> svn
<jbailey> The svn doesn't really handle kubuntu well.  It's clear to me if the ubuntu-docs source package should also upload kubuntu-docs
<jbailey> Like, how much will there be in common with everything else?
<Riddell> we need sean to answer that
<mdke> correct
<Riddell> ah hah, /repos/trunk/kde/debian/
<Riddell> that should be in branch as well
<jjesse> pardon the stupid question but were the kubuntu docs setup vastlly different from the rest of the ubuntu docs?
<mdke> yeah they have been set up a little differently
<mdke> Riddell, none of the packaged stuff will be in the branch afaik, sean requested it be dealt with in trunk
<mdke> on the basis that the string freeze was not going to apply to kubuntu docs
<jjesse> well i made branches and trunk have the same information last night in regards to the docs i have worked on
<jjesse> hence the large commits this morning
<mdke> not the packaging though, just those docs
<jjesse> correct mdke 
<Riddell> can I get write access to the SVN?
<mdke> Riddell, not easily, but jbailey has it
<mdke> Riddell, elmo can give it
<Riddell> jjesse has it too?
<jjesse> Riddell: yes i have access to svn
<jjesse> are there changes that i could make for you?
<Riddell> jjesse: I'm just looking to see if I can get the packaging script to work
<Riddell> jjesse: does the kuserguide compile?
<jjesse> Riddell: 
<jjesse> doh getting errors
<jjesse> let me try and fix them
<Riddell> looks like some broken angle bracket 
<jjesse> http://pastebin.com/382823
<Riddell> hmm, kqg not compiling either
<Riddell> jjesse: that's the trouble
<Riddell> mdke: can infinity grant SVN access?
<mdke> not sure, maybe
<jjesse> was hoping my docbook guide would come for the flight to seattle but looks like amazon is slow in shipping it
<mdke> jbailey, mdz has given an answer on that string for the omf. It should be "Ubuntu 5.10 Starter Guide"
<Riddell> jjesse: ccbyas.xml needs to have its DOCTYPE commented out like gpl.xml
<jbailey> mdke: Lovely, I'll get it in after lunch.
<jjesse> in which document?
<mdke> jbailey, will rerunning the l10n script automatically change the translations too?
<Riddell> jjesse: in common, to fix those errors with kug
<jbailey> No, because I didn't run it against the OMFs.
<jbailey> I could, though.
<mdke> would be an idea
<mdke> jbailey, otherwise the omf's will have the old string
<Riddell> OMFs?
<mdke> Riddell, they are the scrollkeeper registration files for Yelp
<jbailey> WEll, I'd update them.
<Riddell> ah.  gnome.  say no more :)
<jbailey> But was that string trnaslatead?
<mdke> jbailey, nope
<jbailey> Riddell: Docbook is the bomb, dude.
<jbailey> mdke: Ah, okay.
<mdke> jbailey, but they need to be updated with the new string anyhow, but afaics your script does that
<jbailey> I might run it through poxml love for About Ubuntu, though.
<jbailey> Yup
<mdke> cool
<mdke> later
<jjesse> ok i can get them to build though there are .pot's for those files does that screw things up?
<jjesse> hold i messed up
<jjesse> fixed my own problem
<jjesse> Riddell: changed commited should be able to build now
<Riddell> jjesse: tell me again why sean didn't want the debian directory in branch?
<jjesse> Riddell: i have no clue what he did i started working on kubuntu docs just before he stopped and disappeared
<jjesse> Riddell: i guess i don't understand why we can't put things in branch and just go on if he's not here supporting them
<Riddell> jjesse: could you branch kde/debian then into breezy/kde
<Riddell> if we're going to work in branch then it should all be done in branch
<jjesse> ok someone might have to help me with the correct svn commands as i'm not the greatest at it
<Riddell> I don't know either :)
<Riddell> jbailey?
<jjesse> mdke: can you help us out?
<jjesse> brb
<jjesse> sorry bout that
<Riddell> jbailey: neither jbailey nor mdke are forthcoming with svn branching expertese
<Riddell> jjesse: 
<jjesse> hmm ok heading to website to look for help on how to copy files to different directory via svn
<Riddell> it might be just a svn copy command dunno
<Riddell> jjesse: do you think we can get aboutkubuntu, quickguide, releasenotes and userguide into a shape ready to ship?
<jjesse> riddle i want to get aboutkubuntu, kqucikgudie and releasenotes ready to ship
<jjesse> don't know if userguide will be ready but i can look into
<jjesse> i'm leaving for seattle on friday for a week and will be !computer that entire time
<jjesse> vacation w/ wife
<jjesse> so i wan't to get kquickguide and kreleasenotes done before i leave
<Riddell> jjesse: so friday is the deadline :)
<jjesse> release canidate is when?
<Riddell> jjesse: ok, we'll drop userguide for breezy
<Riddell> jjesse: thursday
<jjesse> ok i'll shoot for thursday
<jjesse> sorry lost history aobut what needs to merge?
<jjesse> what time on thursday as well?
<jjesse> being only person doing these docs suck :(
<Riddell> jjesse: kde/debian directory needs branched
<jjesse> ok so according to doc svn merge kde/debian /branches/breezy/kde/debian should work
<Riddell> jjesse: give it a shot
<jjesse> http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.1/ch04s03.html
<Riddell> hmm, debian directory isn't there, don't know if that's a marge that's needed or a copy
<jjesse> Riddell:  https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/breezy/kde/debian/  look correct?
<Riddell> jjesse: rocking
<Riddell> jings, it's enrico 
<jjesse> cheer!!!
<enrico> hi!!  Just back from Colombia
<Riddell> jjesse: I'm going to sort out the packaging and upload whatever we have tonight, just so we have something that's vaugly up to date
<jjesse> awesome
<jjesse> Riddell: just got this from froud "the packages already work just use the script"
<Riddell> not in branch they don't
<Riddell> just needs small fixes though
<Riddell> and with that CC file fixed we're sorted for packaging
<jjesse> Riddell: ok i sent him back a message to talk w/ you directly
<jbailey> Riddell: I'm back now, was eating lunch.
<Riddell> jbailey: we sorted it :)
<jjesse> Riddell: i think we sorted it out
<jbailey> Riddell: Cool.
<Riddell> well, jjesse sorted it being the star he is
<jbailey> Riddell: Longer term, do you want kubuntu-docs generated from the same source as ubuntu-docs?
<jbailey> I can do it simply enough, but I don't know if that complicates branding.
<jbailey> Because then anyone branding Ubuntu or Kubuntu has to deal with extra crap.
<Riddell> jbailey: I think I need to look at how the ubuntu docs are set up and how much of the content can be shared before answering that
<Riddell> jjesse: patch for you to apply http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/docs.diff
<jjesse> svn patch right?
<Riddell> jjesse: yes
<jjesse> man i need to print off that help manual or something
<Riddell> in branches/breezy/kde
<Riddell> do patch -p0 < docs.diff
<jbailey> Riddell: Fair enough, although given that we can't do it for breezy, it might be better to post the question of how it *should* be done.
<jbailey> There's a common directory, a gnome directory, and a kde directory.
<jjesse> i guess i would rather just have it be easiest
<jbailey> Those could properly be renamed ubuntu and kubuntu.
<jbailey> jjesse: Easiest is to assume that there's nothing in common between the two.
<jbailey> Which at runtime is probably pretty accurate for any documentation that we're going to provide.
<jbailey> I don't know if d-i differs at all.
<Riddell> it doesn't
<Riddell> but usplash screenshots would
<jjesse> if it is simple and it seems like i'm one of the few doing kubuntu docs then icould maintain it
<jbailey> jjesse: I'll be doing weekly snapshots of the ubuntu-docs anyway, I can trivially do snapshots of kubuntu-docs as well.
<jjesse> jbailey:  that is fine
<jbailey> Just off of whatever bzr or svn is published.
<jbailey> Is the Kubuntu docs also done in docbook?
<jjesse> jbailey: yes they are 
<jbailey> 'k, so they'll want the same poxml love then for rosetta.
<jbailey> Best if I generate the snapshots then so I can just do the same thing for Kubuntu and Ubuntu with pitti for langpacks.
<jbailey> (This is all dapper stuff, obviously, right? *g*)
<Riddell> jbailey: yep
<jbailey> But I suspect that installer documentation can be split out as such, and that kubuntu-docs and ubuntu-docs can otherwise live in separate trees completely.
<jjesse> Riddell: just comitted changes
<jjesse> i should probablly make the change in trunk as well?
<jjesse> ls
<mdke> jbailey, the thing is that so many of the docs have stuff in common...
<jbailey> mdke: Which ones?
<mdke> jbailey, the install guide and the faqguide
<jbailey> You mean like the FDL and stuff?
<mdke> the faqguide was profiled so that it would include both kubuntu and ubuntu
<jbailey> The install guide, yes.  That's why I suggest splitting that out into a third doc.
<jbailey> The faqguide I don't know so well, I haven't been through it all.
<mdke> but when the decision was taken to publish in xml, we had to remove all the profiling because yelp doesn't support that
<jbailey> I don't think I know what you mean?
<Riddell> jjesse: Makefile and prepdeb.sh havn't been updated
<jbailey> Like, does Kubuntu use synaptic and such?
<jjesse> hold on boss on phone
<mdke> jbailey, no
<jbailey> The Faqguide's applications seems to refer to gnome stuff pretty heavily...
<mdke> jbailey, but there is loads of common stuff, and te doc was originally written like this:
<jjesse> jbailey and mdke i haven't looked at the faqguide at all
<mdke> To install *whatever*, open <os="gnome">Synaptic<os="kde">Kynaptic, etc
<mdke> jbailey, that is not the correct string, but you see what I mean
<jbailey> mdke: Oh phear.
<jbailey> And can you actually still have sensible help with that?
<Riddell> jjesse: is it official policy that string freeze doesn't apply to kubuntu docs?
<jbailey> Riddell: Upload and beg forgiveness.
<mdke> jbailey, the idea was that when we built the html that stuff would be separated out
<jbailey> Riddell: I don't think the stuff was ever submitted for translation.
<mdke> jbailey, but shipping in xml, yelp doesn't understand it so it goes crazy, hence we removed all the profiling
<Riddell> jbailey: can't do that, all uploads have to be approved... they will notice
<jjesse> Riddell:  no clue
<mdke> jjesse, Riddell, sean said that you _made_ that policy
<Riddell> and it's my distro and what I say goes :)
* mdke nods
<mdke> i was surprised too
<jjesse> mdke was that me that made the policy ? i was not aware that i had that permission
<mdke> no, no
<mdke> i made a few noises about string freeze and translation, and the kubuntu docs not being ready, and Sean said that he'd spoken to Riddell about it, and that the kubuntu docs would not be translated so the string freeze didn't apply
<Riddell> Kubuntu User Guide is translated as Kubuntu User Manual in en_GB?
<Riddell> strange
<Riddell> jjesse: can you do a  svn remove kde/khelpdesktop/kubuntu/kuserguide.desktop  in branches/breezy/ please
<jjesse> Riddell:  done
<Riddell> hmm, it's still there
<Riddell> jjesse: svn commit  as well
<Kinnison> ciao all
<jjesse> sorry still on phone so a little lagged
<jjesse> just did a svn commit
<Riddell> jjesse: cool.  you need to  svn commit Makefile prepdeb.sh  in banches/breezy/kde
<jjesse> ok hold on
<jjesse> give me 15 mins work calls
<Riddell> ok
<dholbach> hellas
<dholbach> are you aware of #16982?
<jjesse> Riddell: i did a commit of that and nothing happened
<Riddell> jjesse: should have been in that patch I gave you
<Riddell> jjesse: try this patch http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/docs2.diff
<jjesse> done
<Riddell> jjesse: great, thanks
<jjesse> ok afk for another bit, trying to get work done (i know its a crazy thought ) 
<Riddell> jjesse: good luck
<jjesse> ok back to the channel
<mdke> dholbach, nope, pls assign it to jbailey
<dholbach> mdke: merci, will do
<mdke> :)
#ubuntu-doc 2006-10-02
<froud> morning
<Burgundavia> hey froud
<froud> I see that the Server Install CD installs kernel -server, but the Server installation from the Alternate CD does not, instead it installs -386. Is there a reasoning for this?
<froud> Burgundavia: hey
<Burgundavia> likely a bug
<Burgundavia> I like -server has gone away anyway
<Burgundavia> think, rather
#ubuntu-doc 2006-10-03
<indu> Hi, I want to know what mechanism ubuntu is using to convert the documents created in the Wiki to the html format and pdf in the link https://help.ubuntu.com/6.06/
<indu> anybody there who can provide me information regarding ubuntu documentation process
<indu> please
<indu> anybody there?
<indu> i cannot get any answer here?
#ubuntu-doc 2006-10-04
<Ubugtu> New bug: #63867 in ubuntu-docs "HOWTOs should be merged into ubuntu-docs, or..." [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63867
<nixternal> i hope he realises that there are thousands of howtos
<FireRabbit> no kidding, i dont know what hes talking about
<dholbach> heya
<dholbach> mdke: Burgundavia (and others) proposed to move the Book excerpts to help.ubuntu.com - how would we get that done?
<mdke> dholbach: I suppose copy the html to the server and add a link. It's not really "help" though... 
<mdke> Can you mail me, I have to go to work
<dholbach> mdke: sure, will do!
<dholbach> thanks
<mdke> cya later
<dholbach> see you
<AnAnt> oh btw, there is a bug I think in the Ubuntu System documentation
<AnAnt> sometimes it misses some words
<AnAnt> for example in the Adding Extra repositories page: in step 1 it says "Open ."
#ubuntu-doc 2006-10-05
<tepsipakki> hi, could it be considered to add the ubuntu-installation docs to help.u.c?
<tepsipakki> like debian has
<tepsipakki> omg, they are at doc.u.c
<tepsipakki> silly me
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> was just gonna link you to that ;)
<tepsipakki> heh
<tepsipakki> could it have also the devel-version?
<tepsipakki> since I'm using the preseed-stuff quite a lot so I need to have the current version available..
<nixternal> holy cow...that needs work...
* nixternal adds that to the to do list
<nixternal> Installing Ubuntu 6.04 "Dapper Drake" For i386
<nixternal> that is far from correct ;)
<tepsipakki> :)
<nixternal> seems someone got a little ahead of themselves and thought there was going to be an april release
<tepsipakki> surely the latest u-i-d package has it right?-)
<tepsipakki> latest for dapper
<nixternal> i would think so
<nixternal> if it was kubuntu i could tell you more since i am usually working on that side of the doc fence ;)
<tepsipakki> hmm, xubuntu seems to be missing from doc.u.c
<Ubugtu> New bug: #64139 in ubuntu-docs "[doc.ubuntu.com]  Ubuntu Installation Guide - Refers to 6.04" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/64139
<Ubugtu> New bug: #64140 in ubuntu-docs "[help.ubuntu.com]  6.10 Tab/Page Needed" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/64140
<tepsipakki> nixternal: thanks for reporting those bugs ;)
<LaserJock> nixternal: ping
<nixternal> pong
<LaserJock> why do we need a 6.10 tab?
<nixternal> because we have a 5.10 and a 6.06, only makes sense
<LaserJock> those tabs are for release stable documentation
<LaserJock> 6.10 isn't released
<nixternal> well, edy will be stable in a few weeks
<nixternal> just put that there as a reminder "bug" really
<LaserJock> the tab should show up the day of release
<LaserJock> but yeah, a reminder isn't bad
<nixternal> whats up with doc.ubuntu.com?
<nixternal> is that still maintained or no?
<LaserJock> what about it?
<LaserJock> of course
<LaserJock> that's where the edgy docs reside
<nixternal> well, Dapper isn't 6.04
<LaserJock> nope
<nixternal> hehe
<LaserJock> that's the installation guide right?
<nixternal> ya
<LaserJock> I think the installation guide was ditched
<nixternal> i wonder why nobody ever created a bug or recognized that
<LaserJock> is it shipped?
<nixternal> i was thinking that it was....but i don't think it should have been...every distro has an "install" guide
<nixternal> it isn't shipped
<nixternal> release, about, dg, packaging guide, and server guide are shipped
<LaserJock> right
<nixternal> i think some "spring" cleaning is in order
<LaserJock> the point was that Ubiquity has it's own installation documentation
<nixternal> oh ya...forgot about that
<nixternal> although...it would be nice to have an "alternate" view ;)
<LaserJock> so the doc team is no longer mataining installation material, that I know of
<LaserJock> I could be wrong though
<nixternal> i don't remember seeing any "ubiquity" documentation done by us, so i would have to agree with you
<LaserJock> well, we tend to keep things around in case we need them again
<LaserJock> it was done by Kamion I think
<LaserJock> and some helpers ;-)
<nixternal> ahhh
<nixternal> what is a good book to read right now?
<nixternal> i think im gonna go to the library..pick up a book or 2 to read...get me off the puter for an hour or two each day ;)
<Ubugtu> New bug: #60340 in ubuntu-website "preseed example out of date" [Undecided,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/60340
<nixternal> 60340 is far from new
<nixternal> hmm..the rejects get posted as well
<LaserJock> nixternal: I'm reading this nice new Linux Application Development book
<nixternal> [13:22:09]  <LaserJock> nixternal: I'm reading this nice new Linux Application Development book
<nixternal> is it good?
<LaserJock> seems to be
<LaserJock> give an overview of Linux development
<LaserJock> info on licensing, FLOSS
<nixternal> seems there is a translation problem with the Kubuntu Desktop Guide referring to a wrong menu when using the Kino Video Editor
<nixternal> i have been looking for a book like that LaserJock
<nixternal> paste the isbn
<nixternal> mdke: Kubuntu Desktop Guide > 4. Common Tasks > Video > Video Editing | There is a bug with the menu layout for Kino. What is the proper way of getting that fixed?
<mdke> nixternal: what's the bug?
<nixternal> it says to use the "Applications Menu", which isn't in Kubuntu
<mdke> we haven't branched the docs yet, when we branch the edgy docs you can fix it for edgy+1, I guess
<nixternal> it is currently "Applications -> Sound & Video -> Kino" and it should be "KMenu -> Multimedia -> Kino"
<nixternal> it is like that in Dapper docs as well
<mdke> if you file the bug, then we won't forget to fix it for edgy+1
<nixternal> i can do that
<mdke> cool
#ubuntu-doc 2006-10-06
<Burgwork> LaserJock, you good with munging text files?
<LaserJock> not sure
<LaserJock> what's up?
<Burgwork> i have a list of things and a 2nd list of things
<Burgwork> I want a third list of things, only those things not found on both
<LaserJock> ah, the union of 2 lists ;-)
<LaserJock> hmm, maybe not union
* LaserJock forgets all his wonderful math terms
<LaserJock> Burgwork: and in what language do you want this?
<Burgwork> don't really care
<Burgwork> here is the one catch
<Burgwork> 1st list is a csv
<Burgwork> need to compare only the first column
<LaserJock> what's the second list
<Burgwork> just a straight list
<LaserJock> are these really big files?
<Burgwork> one is several thousand lines
<LaserJock> hmm
<theCore> Burgwork, can I see a sample line?
<theCore> (item1, item2, item3)    list2
<theCore> like this?
<theCore> then you want a XOR list of item1 and list2?
<Burgwork> yep
<LaserJock> hmm, well I've got something that seems to work
<LaserJock> Burgwork: want it or did you get something already
<theCore> Burgwork, still here?
<LaserJock> Burgwork: well, my python version is http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/25766/
<theCore> oh, one list per file
<theCore> Burgwork, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/25774/
<theCore> Burgwork, this one is a bit clearer, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/25775/
<theCore> It takes the first element of the CSV list from one file and a list from another file. Then. it compares the two list. Finally, it prints the xor list
<mdke> mvirkkil: what stage is the docbook -> Moin tool at nowadays? Is it finished?
<webben> are the ubuntu-documentation folks in charge of how the wiki generates html?
<trappist> webben: I believe the authors of moinmoin are in charge of that
<webben> trappist, thanks :)
<Burgwork> LaserJock, thanks
<LaserJock> np, did you look at theCore's too? he had a nice little one
<Burgwork> LaserJock, no, I didn't
<Burgwork> ah, ther
<LaserJock> Burgwork: his might be a lot faster, not sure
#ubuntu-doc 2006-10-07
<LjL> ompaul, hi
<ompaul> how do :)
<LjL> ompaul: better than a few days ago...
<LjL> i've made a few (not really radical) changes to DialupModemHowto, mainly putting all the repeated instructions on "how to download stuff from another machine", "how to install gcc", "how to install gcc 3.4" into a single place
<LjL> what would be the best way to reference that sort of thing from inside the page? -- in other words, whenever a step is mentioned that involves setting up GCC (etc), i'd like to have a link to the relevant section
<ompaul> why 3.4 
<ompaul> gcc version 4.0.3 (Ubuntu 4.0.3-1ubuntu5)
<ompaul> that is for dapper
<LjL> ompaul: i don't know... it's mentioned on the page several times, as something you need to install for compiling certain drivers
<ompaul> that was true up to breezy 
<LjL> ompaul: i didn't investigate whether that's really necessary, or gcc 4.0 is fine
<LjL> i basically just changed the layout
<ompaul>  s/gcc 3.4/gcc :)
* ompaul collapses 
<ompaul> back in a few mins
<LjL> ompaul: *shrug* i know that page's a mess, and a lot of the advice in it is probably doubtful, but what should i do
<LjL> i don't *have* all those modems, so i can't just scrap everything that is there and rewrite it differently ;)
<LjL> all i can do i make the page a little more structured...
<LjL> ompaul: also, have a look at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/winmodem-support , and in "Read more", go to the "Discussion" section, where i've just added a suggestion... what do you think?
<LjL> after all, DialupModemHowto is a mess, but that's partially because making those modems works *is* a mess, i'm afraid =)
<ompaul> been a long time since I did one
<LjL> ompaul: me too... actually, i *never* had to deal with that stuff, since when i was using a modem, it was a real one. ;)
<LjL> ompaul: anyway, the question at hand is... was is the way (if any) in the wiki to make (long) footnotes? -- i think all that GCC stuff would be much better formatted as footnotes
<LjL> you know, having whole sections at the top of the page, and then making links such as DialupModemHowto#head-e2fda33ea2fad3f2139a25629c62504fbbbd6abe , is not what i consider particularly elegant
<ompaul> LjL, when I could not use real internal I got external serial one
* ompaul hands LjL launchpad 
<ompaul> :)
<ompaul> sorry dude I am running around like a headless chicken 
<LjL> ompaul: i've got too external 56K modems, but i never really used them... i always went with my internal (but real) 33.6K modem, then switched to fiber
<ompaul> LjL, the bug is nuts - then we have to get licences and check against 
<ompaul> LjL, 200+ modems
<ompaul> in my personal opinion much better if people are told that they are being cheated out of good hardware cos this one wants to rob your cpu cycles for modem work :)
<LjL> ompaul: you mean that proposal for auto-installing drivers? well yeah, that's one of the reason i suggested that we just *check* for unsupported modems, and inform the user
<ompaul> yeap
<ompaul> it seems to me that the "open cd" aspect of our CD should give way to being something that rocks more 
<LjL> ompaul: well, you could make the "friendly dialog window" i proposed a bit different if you want to convey that message... like, "Your modem is software-defined and only comes with software for the Windows operating systems, thus ...."
<LjL> ompaul: like what?
<ompaul> LjL, well to accomidate the "your hardware is not supported out of the box here is a page with the steps that get it rocking"
<ompaul> then after that they get a "Some hardware gives pain, WHY?" links
<ompaul> sorry my english is broken as is my brain today 
<LjL> ompaul: uhm, yeah, but doesn't necessarily have to be an "Open CD" sort of feature imho... it could just be a [prominent]  topic in the Help system
<ompaul> LjL, sorry, you misread my intention
<LjL> ompaul: but the foundamental aspect in my opinion is that the system should *automatically* detected undetected hardware (err... sorry for the pun) and tell the user. you know, users just *don't* reach for the documentation, unless you force them to
<ompaul> LjL, the Open CD aspect, should be replaced with CODE that does what you say 
<ompaul> three penguins sitting on the edge of an iceberg and they see a killer whale circling just off the shore, one of them mutters, "guess it is just fries again this evening"
<LjL> ...
<LjL> ompaul: oh by the way, i installed Ubuntu on a relative's computer with a WiFi network... *and it worked out of the box* ;-) i'd never have expected that, given the quantity of people coming and complaining about ndiswrappers and whatever it is
<LjL> well, didn't really work out of the box because i didn't know the various machine IP, gateway address, SSID, and all that... but that was definitely a user problem
<ompaul> penguin home on a linksys
<LjL> ah honestly i don't even know what that Wifi PCI card's brand was
<LjL> i was already having enough trouble trying to mount the wrong fan on the wrong dissipator of the wrong processor, to bother looking at hardware specs :\
<LjL> ever heard the noise from a 7500RPM fan? i hope i won't again
<mdke> it's high time we branched for edgy
<nixternal> woohoo
<mdke> nixternal: how are you placed for the next few days? I'm going to need some help with edgy translations
<nixternal> im open
<nixternal> i can help you out
<mdke> good news :)
<mdke> I'll do some testing first then give you a shout
<nixternal> no..the good news is "i just a ton of money by switching to geico"
<nixternal> hmm..i wonder if geico commercials are as great in the UK as they are in the US :)
<mdke> saved?
<mdke> I'm not sure we have em in the UK
<nixternal> that should have said "i just SAVED a ton of 
<nixternal> hahaha
<nixternal> you got the idea though...there is a lizard that speaks with a brit accent...great stuff
<nixternal> ya, just let me know when you need a hand, and i will hop in
<mdke> lizards are good
<nixternal> hehe
<mdke> thanks, I will mail ya
<nixternal> sounds good to me
<mdke> damn jobs, taking up too much Ubuntu time
<nixternal> i have noticed
<mdke> yeah?
<mdke> no, that was me being on holiday.
<nixternal> you have been rather idle around the channel since you got back...see, i switched from working to go back to school..only reason i am here as much as i am
<mdke> ah
<FireRabbit> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CompositeManager i updated this entire secure with information about Edgy and Beryl, if anyone wants to look it over
<pepsiman> FireRabbit: "You may just want to put export XLIB_SKIP_ARGB_VISUALS=1 in your ~/.bashrc if this fixes the problems. It is probably better to do it just for the programs that break with Composite, so new problems don't appear."  Is "so new problems don't appear" supposed to be in the first sentence?
<FireRabbit> ah i didnt write (or read) that
<FireRabbit> ill just get rid of that bit
<pepsiman> yeah
<FireRabbit> yipes that whole thing is horribly written
<FireRabbit> if someone encounters a program that goes bonkers when run along with a composite manager, they should file a bug with that program
<pepsiman> yes, but a workaround is still useful
<FireRabbit> yes, i am rewriting it, it will still include the workaround
<pepsiman> good
<FireRabbit> pepsiman: reload
<FireRabbit> doh, s/is/are/
<FireRabbit> fixed :P
<pepsiman> the & has gone from the command line
<FireRabbit> hm i suppose i could put that back
<theCore> Burgundavia, ping
#ubuntu-doc 2006-10-08
<badger> anyone here? i have a question about installing ubuntu
<Burgundavia> badger: yes, but this is not a support list
<Burgundavia> channel, really
<nixternal> dito
<badger> ok i have a comp with no OS.  I put in ubuntu desktop boot disk. hit install. it said loading drivers for a couple minutes...now it just sits at a black screen with flashing prompt.  What am i suppose to do?
<Burgundavia> hmm
<Plug> Reboot and try adding 'acpi=off' or 'noapic' to the kernel command line?
<Plug> #ubuntu may be able to help you more
<badger> ok acpi=off made it get further into installation.  then the monitor says invalid pc mode.  what is this?
#ubuntu-doc 2007-10-01
<dsas> congrats popey
<ubotu> New bug: #147294 in ubuntu-docs (main) "Visual effects needs documentation/video" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/147294
<mpt> http://www.linux.com/feature/119212 -- about licenses for documentation etc generally, and incompatibility between the CC BY-SA and the GPL in particular
<mdke> nixternal: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/147186
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 147186 in rosetta "Download all translations for a source package" [Undecided,Fix committed] 
* nixternal looks
<nixternal> mdke: OK, what am I missing with this? We have been downloading our translations like that since Dapper I thought, or at least Edgy...
<mdke> no, it was only possible to download translations for a single template
<mdke> with this, you can download all the templates at the same time; avoiding the 20 email feast
<nixternal> ohhhhh
<nixternal> sweet!
<mdke> :)
<nixternal> how are the ubuntu-docs translations coming along?
<mdke> no idea
<nixternal> I am following kubuntu-docs closely, and haven't seen all that much done yet
<mdke> ah
<nixternal> but then again, kubuntu-docs seem to get the same amount of love every period by the same exact teams
<mdke> looks to be some decent progress, but the teams haven't got enough time really
<mdke> we need to try and get them started relatively early in the cycle if possible
<mdke> now things are getting relatively stable, hopefully that will be possible
<nixternal> ya, that is what I am hoping
<mdke> ok, bbl
<nixternal> have fun
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: lucius * r4404 xubuntu/printing/ (C/printing.xml printing.pot): remove mentioning of gnome-cups-manager, update corresponding POT
#ubuntu-doc 2007-10-02
* #ubuntu-doc  [freenode-info]  help freenode weed out clonebots, please register your IRC nick and auto-identify: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
<bogey-> anyone alive?
<seisen> i am
<bogey-> i want to start helping with the documentation
<bogey-> i am an experienced technical writer
<bogey->  I read the website
<bogey-> yet no where do I see a place that says to contribute please click here
<bogey-> you always land on another spot with links to start other places, and then you end up in an endless loop
<seisen> have you tried this link
<seisen> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Mentoring
<bogey-> I am there now
<bogey-> very nice, thank you
<seisen> no problem
<seisen> do we have a link for 7.10 documentation or will not be put on the help.ubuntu.com until gutsy is officially released
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke gutsy * r4405 /ubuntu/ (1045 files in 19 dirs): Adding initial download of po files from Launchpad
#ubuntu-doc 2007-10-03
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: jjesse * r4406 ubuntu/musicvideophotos/C/musicvideophotos.xml: fixing bug #146794
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 146794 in ubuntu-docs "Democracy TV renamed to Miro" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/146794
<jjesse> yay me
<ubotu> New bug: #148372 in ubuntu-docs (main) "Tiny grammar issue" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/148372
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke gutsy * r4407 /ubuntu/browser-startpage/index-en_GB.html: Adding firefox startpage for en_GB
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke gutsy * r4408 /ubuntu/translate.sh: updating translate.sh to feisty version
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke gutsy * r4409 /ubuntu/ (2052 files in 18 dirs): renaming po files
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke gutsy * r4410 /ubuntu/ (3794 files in 1026 dirs): Adding translations for all documents
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke gutsy * r4411 /ubuntu/broken_translations: list of broken translations
#ubuntu-doc 2007-10-04
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke gutsy * r4412 /debian/changelog: fixing changelog
<LaserJock> mdke: ping?
<mdke> LaserJock: (In case I'm not around at the moment, please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I get back)
<LaserJock> drat, the dreaded ping-bot
<Madpilot> heh. it's voicemail for IRC.
<LaserJock> mdke: don't know if it's already reported, but there are quit a few bad links in Advanced Topics (like info and man pages) and also programming.xml links seem messed up
<ubotu> New bug: #148934 in scrollkeeper (main) "/usr/share/omf/windows/windows-C.omf:8: parser error (dup-of: 146832)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/148934
<ubotu> New bug: #149040 in ubuntu-docs (main) "waste of disk space" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/149040
<LaserJock> mdke: around?
<mdke> LaserJock: (In case I'm not around at the moment, please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I get back)
<LaserJock> blah
<LaserJock> nailed me again
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke gutsy * r4413 /debian/rules: pitti's fix to debian/rules
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke gutsy * r4414 /debian/README.Debian: Don't include libs/pdf in source package
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke gutsy * r4415 /debian/rules: *really* pitti's fix to debian/rules
<mdke> meh, so much to do :)
<dsas> and so little time.
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke gutsy * r4416 / (debian/rules symlink-dupes): restoring pitti's script to remove symlinks
<saber_tn> Hello World :-)
<mdke> hi saber_tn
<saber_tn> Hi mdke
<ubotu> New bug: #149150 in ubuntu-docs (main) "package gnome-panel-data 1:2.20.0.1-0ubuntu5 failed to install/upgrade: problemi con le dipendenze - lasciato non configurato" [Medium,Invalid]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/149150
<ubotu> New bug: #149146 in ubuntu-docs (main) "package synaptic 0.60ubuntu5 failed to install/upgrade: problemi con le dipendenze - lasciato non configurato" [Medium,Invalid]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/149146
<ubotu> New bug: #149148 in ubuntu-docs (main) "package nautilus 1:2.20.0-0ubuntu6 failed to install/upgrade: problemi con le dipendenze - lasciato non configurato (dup-of: 146832)" [Medium,Invalid]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/149148
<ubotu> New bug: #148990 in scrollkeeper (main) "scrollkeeper error  (dup-of: 146832)" [Medium,Invalid]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/148990
<mdke> whoosh
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke gutsy * r4417 /debian/changelog: updating changelog entry
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke gutsy * r4418 /debian/changelog: *fixing* changelog entry (ugh)
<ubotu> New bug: #149152 in scrollkeeper (main) "package scrollkeeper 0.3.14-13ubuntu3 failed to install/upgrade: il sottoprocesso post-installation script  stato terminato dal segnale (Interrupt) (dup-of: 146832)" [Medium,Invalid]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/149152
<ubotu> New bug: #149149 in gnome-app-install (main) "package gnome-app-install 0.4.12-0ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: problemi con le dipendenze - lasciato non configurato (dup-of: 146832)" [Medium,Invalid]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/149149
#ubuntu-doc 2007-10-05
<wii> why was i banned from ubuntu+1?
<nixternal> wii: #ubuntu-ops is what you want, not ubuntu-doc
<wii> nixternal: im banned from there
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke gutsy * r4419 /generic/ (3 files in 3 dirs):
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: * Fixing horrid typo in omf file for serverguide (no string additions)
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: * Removing styleguide from branch, not needed for any packages
<mdke> morning all
<Madpilot> greetings
<mdke> Madpilot!
* mdke hugs
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke gutsy * r4420 /debian/rules: only install translations over 90% complete (temporary)
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke gutsy * r4421 /debian/changelog: noting change in debian/changelog
<ubotu> New bug: #149336 in cupsys (main) "cannot upgrade cupsys (dup-of: 140002)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/149336
<ubotu> New bug: #149239 in update-notifier (main) "update notifier reported an error (dup-of: 146832)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/149239
<LaserJock> mdke: did you branch for gutsy?
<mdke> LaserJock: like a month ago
#ubuntu-doc 2007-10-06
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: sbalneav * r4422 edubuntu/handbook/C/server.xml: Forgot to mention /proc mounting and umounting
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke gutsy * r4423 /generic/serverguide/po/ (44 files): Adding po files from rosetta
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r4424 common/C/contributors.xml: Updated contributors list
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke gutsy * r4425 /ubuntu/ (1031 files in 18 dirs): refreshing translations from Launchpad
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke gutsy * r4426 / (732 files in 44 dirs): adding serverguide translations
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke gutsy * r4427 /ubuntu/ (22 files in 20 dirs): updating translations
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke gutsy * r4428 /ubuntu/ (23 files in 16 dirs):
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: * updating more translations
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: * tweak to translate.sh for better output
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke gutsy * r4429 /ubuntu/ (22 files in 15 dirs): further translation updates
<nixternal> mdke: I just did an svn up and it didn't download any of your current updates
<mdke> nixternal: in which directory did you do it?
<nixternal> from the root dir
<mdke> nixternal: you mean from repos?
<nixternal> it pulled in one thing from /ubuntu, the rest were in xubuntu
<nixternal> yes
<nixternal> and some in edubuntu
* mdke shrugs
<mdke> you sure you have branches/gutsy?
<nixternal> you dork...err, I am the dork :)
<nixternal> I had no idea you branched it already :)
<mdke> if you do svn up from the root directory, you'll get it automatically
<nixternal> hrmm, I did, but I didn't get the new branch from what I can tell
<mdke> and you have a checkout of the whole repo?
<nixternal> oh, I think I rechecked out trunk on its own..that's why
<mdke> that would explain it
<nixternal> fixing my checkout now
<mdke> you're the second person to ask if we branched already, lemme check something
<nixternal> it is doing it correctly now
<mdke> aha
<mdke> my email about it didn't go to the mailing list, sorry about that
<nixternal> ahh..no problem
<mdke> I sent one on the 16th september when we branched; but forgot to include the mailing list, so stupid
<mdke> it only went to riddell and dholbach :(
<nixternal> I was wondering where all of the updates were going
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke gutsy * r4430 /ubuntu/ (132 files in 57 dirs): updating all other translations
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke gutsy * r4431 /ubuntu/about-ubuntu/ (ar/about-ubuntu.xml ka/about-ubuntu.xml ru/about-ubuntu.xml): fixing broken translations
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke gutsy * r4432 /ubuntu/add-applications/nl/add-applications.xml: fixing broken translation
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke gutsy * r4433 /ubuntu/advanced-topics/ (id/advanced-topics.xml nl/advanced-topics.xml): fixing broken translations
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke gutsy * r4434 /ubuntu/games/ (lv/games.xml nl/games.xml): fixing broken translations
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke gutsy * r4435 /ubuntu/internet/ (fr/basics.xml sk/web-apps.xml): fixing broken translations
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke gutsy * r4436 /ubuntu/office/ru/office.xml: fixing broken translation
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke gutsy * r4437 /ubuntu/windows/ (4 files in 3 dirs): fixing broken translations
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke gutsy * r4438 /generic/serverguide/ (7 files in 7 dirs): fixing broken translations
<mdke> ahhh
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke gutsy * r4439 /generic/server/ (817 files in 43 dirs): Adding last translations
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke gutsy * r4440 /debian/ (changelog rules): new changelog entry
<ubotu> New bug: #148714 in ubuntu-docs (main) "provide a link to the downloads of the packaging guide" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/148714
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke gutsy * r4441 /ubuntu/Makefile: include translations in ubuntu-serverguide package
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke gutsy * r4442 /ubuntu/Makefile: include english in ubuntu-serverguide package
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke gutsy * r4443 /debian/changelog: new changelog entry
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke gutsy * r4444 /generic/translate.sh: translate.sh for generic directory
<ubotu> New bug: #149993 in ubuntu-docs (main) "Please update package" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/149993
<jjesse> heelo mkde
<ubotu> New bug: #150001 in ubuntu-doc ""Enable extra Desktop Effects" page refers to non-existent menu item" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/150001
#ubuntu-doc 2007-10-07
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mantha gutsy * r4445 /edubuntu/ (329 files in 73 dirs):
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: * sync up to trunk
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: * add in translations
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: * s/7.04/7.10/
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mantha * r4446 edubuntu/ (6 files in 5 dirs):
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: * About Edubuntu - s/Warty Warthog/Breezy Badger/
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: * removed .pots as they are in gutsy branch
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: * updated addon installer screenshots
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mantha gutsy * r4447 /edubuntu/ (11 files in 6 dirs):
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: * uploaded edubuntu-docs 7.10.1
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation:  - added new debian/changelog entry
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation:  - rewrite debian/rules to install translations
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: * fixed proc mounting bug in server.xml (Scott Balneaves)
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: * added translated.sh to calculate which translations are
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation:  less than 10% translated
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mantha * r4448 edubuntu/ (8 files in 2 dirs): sync from gutsy branch
<jpatrick> who's in charge of the pack guide?
<mdke> jpatrick: Jordan Mantha (Laserjock) has been driving it since forever, but generally the motu are the team dealing with it nowadays; there is a push to move it into the wiki with the rest of the Ubuntu developer documentation
<jpatrick> ah, thanks
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r4449 ubuntu/hardware/C/hardware.xml: Fix typo
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r4450 /trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix grammar issue (patch by Mads Peter Rommedahl, closes #148372)
<ubotu> New bug: #150136 in ubuntu-doc "Touchpad configuration instructions are out-of-date" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/150136
<Lhademmor> When I try to update my SVN thing by writing "svn up" in Terminal, I get the message: "Skipped '.'" and nothing at all happens
<Lhademmor> wtf?
<mdke> Lhademmor: from what directory are you doing the command? It has to be from inside the directory you want to update
<Lhademmor> inside the ubuntu_svn
<mdke> perhaps there is something wrong with your checkout
<Flannel> Lhademmor: check to make sure you have a .svn directory
<Lhademmor> mdke. Hmm... when I moved into ubuntu_svn/trunk/ubuntu/add-applications/C and did 'svn up' it worked, but how can I update everything?
<Lhademmor> Flannel, where?
<Flannel> Lhademmor: ubuntu_svn/.svn
<Lhademmor> Flannel, a directory called .svn is the ~/ubuntu_svn - right next to the trunk
<Lhademmor> d'oh wait
<Lhademmor> I should just move to the trunk directory before svn updating
<Lhademmor> Now it works, thanks :)
<Lhademmor> Whee, my first patch got commited :D
<mdke> nice work :)
<Lhademmor> Can someone with commit access commit patch for bug 144928 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 144928 in ubuntu-docs "Small typo in internet/C/web-apps.xml" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144928
<mdke> someone will get to it soon, I'm sure
<Lhademmor> okay
<Lhademmor> btw, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/MeetingAgenda needs updating.
<Lhademmor> Are meetings still being held, or is the whole thing obsolete?
<mdke> Lhademmor: we haven't had one for ages
<Lhademmor> mdke: Okay.. I generally have the impression that parts of the wiki are a bit outdated, but I'm sure you're aware of that :)
<mdke> correct yeah
<mdke> we'll launch an assault on it after gutsy
<Lhademmor> K
<Lhademmor> Hmm... maybe bug 48829 looks fixable for a n00b like meself, but where in the trunk is the desktop guide?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 48829 in ubuntu-docs "wrong widget reference: tab instead of main window [desktopguide - getting started] " [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/48829
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke gutsy * r4451 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Including link in advanced-topics for programming.xml
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke * r4452 ubuntu/advanced-topics/C/advanced-topics.xml: merging change from gutsy branch
<Lhademmo1> Someone fix CIA-18's charset
<mdke> what's wrong with it?
<Lhademmo1> &#xf; mdke&#xf; * r4452&#xf; ubuntu&#xf;/adv.....
<Lhademmo1> Or maybe my own charset is fucked up
<Lhademmo1> Using Pidgin on Gutsy, I can't figure out how to change it
<mdke> whoosh. Looks fine to me
<Lhademmo1> okay, what charset are you on?
<mdke> utf-8
<Lhademmo1> so am I so wtf is the problem.....?
<Lhademmo1> Anyone who knows where in the trunk is the desktop guide?
<mdke> there is no desktop guide any more; we expanded it into the current topics
<Lhademmo1> mdke, then what about bug 48829 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 48829 in ubuntu-docs "wrong widget reference: tab instead of main window [desktopguide - getting started] " [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/48829
<Lhademmo1> (and btw, where are the current topics? :) )
<mdke> I suspect the material which is the subject of that bug is no longer present. The current topics are on the front page of the help system, and found in trunk/ubuntu in our repository
<Lhademmo1> When (if) I get better at docbug fixing then I hope to someday clean up some of those old semi-obsolete bugs...
<mdke> :)
<mdke> hopefully there aren't *that* many of em
<mdke> anyhow, welcome aboard Lhademmo1
<ubotu> New bug: #150167 in ubuntu-docs (main) "Spelling errors in Hardware page" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/150167
<mdke> see ya later
<Lhademmo1> Thanks :)
<etms51> hi
<Lhademmo1> hi
<etms51> i want to collaborate with yours for translating into italian language
<Lhademmo1> Okay... what do I do if I've fixed one bug in a .xml, and then fix another one? The new .diff file will include both bugfixes, which it shouldn't....
<etms51> but i don't have Ubuntu
<etms51> and i cannot compile to Code conduct
<Lhademmo1> etms51, do you know what Rosetta is?
<etms51> yes
<etms51> but i didn't upload to Ubunt why i don't the permession
<etms51> permission sorry
<Lhademmo1> I'm sorry, I don't think I understand you... You don't need to have Ubuntu to contribute translations. That's done via https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+lang/it
<etms51> yes but i don't permission to upload the file PO to Rosetta on the project Ubuntu
<Lhademmo1> Ah, now I get it
<Lhademmo1> Well... You could sending it to the translators mailing-list?
<etms51> not how function the procedure?
<Lhademmo1> I'm not familiar with the procedure used by the italian translators team, by on the Danish one, you have to be a member on the translators team to upload, otherwise you can only suggest translations.
<etms51> ah ok
<Lhademmo1> My suggestion would be to ask the ubuntu-it mailing-list. There you can maybe apply for membership
<ubotu> New bug: #48829 in ubuntu-docs (main) "wrong widget reference: tab instead of main window [desktopguide - getting started] " [Wishlist,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/48829
<Lhademmo1> bug 141307 - commit?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 141307 in ubuntu-doc "Command line 'mozilla-thunderbird' should be replaced with 'thunderbird'" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141307
<Lhademmo1> Anyone who knows where the svn version of the GNOME Desktop User Guide is?
<ubotu> New bug: #150209 in xubuntu-docs (main) "Some strings use the word "Ubuntu" instead of "Xubuntu"" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/150209
<mdke> etms51: vedi http://wiki.ubuntu-it.org/GruppoTraduzione
<etms51> si ma mdke non ho Ubuntu ma Windows XP
<etms51> ma voglio collaborare a tradurre i software
<mdke> moving channel
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r4453 ubuntu/hardware/C/hardware.xml: Apply patch to fix 3 typos (patch from Mads Peter Rommedahl, closes #150167)
<Lhademmor> If the MeetingThing is dead, how about removing it from topic?
<Lhademmor> Someone perhaps rate bug 139246 as medium?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 139246 in ubuntu-docs "Suspend help files are outdated" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/139246
<jjesse> evening
#ubuntu-doc 2008-09-29
<kirkland> mdke: ping me when you get a few minutes tonight
<mdke> kirkland: hiya
<kirkland> mdke: hey there
<jjesse> hello mdke
<mdke> hi jjesse
<kirkland> mdke: once again, my apologies for the name slip...  50 lashes
<mdke> kirkland: no worries!
<mdke> kirkland: so I checked out the control panel to the search utility
<mdke> there seemed to be a problem with it though
<mdke> lemme see now
<kirkland> mdke: ?
<mdke> when I click on the drop down "Included sites from Dustin Kirkland" it tells me "Loading Sites Failed"
<kirkland> mdke: hmm, okay, this is new territory to me, i've never shared control
<kirkland> mdke: i can see two sets of the sites indexed
<mdke> yeah, I was going to say that there is some repetition
<kirkland> mdke: and I get the same javascripty error message
<mdke> on the homepage it lists each help site twice
<kirkland> mdke: okay, i deleted the duplicate sites listed
<kirkland> mdke: shall i throw up a page with the Ubuntu Documentation header/footer?
<kirkland> mdke: and the custom search?
<kirkland> mdke: (that part is the easy part)
<kirkland> mdke: getting the results to look like you want is the hard part
<mdke> kirkland: is it possible to get a search bar without the "Create your own Custom Search Engine" bit underneath?
<kirkland> yeah
<kirkland> one sec...
<kirkland> mdke: http://people.ubuntu.com/~kirkland/helpsearch.html
<mdke> oh cool
<kirkland> mdke: you could create a more custom results page
<kirkland> mdke: i just splat/pasted help.ubuntu.com
<kirkland> mdke: minus all the links, etc.
<mdke> that's cool
<mdke> so can I just grab the source of that and play with it? We're rolling out a new theme for help.u.c for intrepid I hope
<kirkland> sure
<mdke> along these lines - http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/index.html
<kirkland> mdke: yeah, you can just look at the source of http://people.ubuntu.com/~kirkland/helpsearch.html
<kirkland> mdke: everything you need is right in there
<kirkland> mdke: one more thing...
<kirkland> mdke: i just added "refinements"
<kirkland> mdke: so search for something, like "Play a DVD"
<kirkland> mdke: then you can filter your results
<mdke> yeah, that works really well
<kirkland> mdke: to only "Official", "Community", or "Manuals"
<kirkland> mdke: we can play with the text of those 3 areas
<kirkland> mdke: but i think you'll get the idea
<mdke> I guess we should weigh per release as well, that search shows 7.04 a lot higher than 8.04
<kirkland> mdke: that would be possible
<kirkland> mdke: however, i'll warn you....
<kirkland> mdke: i have had very little success improving Google's default weighting mechanisms
<kirkland> mdke: i've tried a number of different things
<mdke> ah, fair enough
<kirkland> mdke: and always, I've found their weighting gets closer, more reliably
<mdke> in that example, the 9th result should be 1st really. Is there any way to weight the official docs higher?
<kirkland> mdke: sadly, it does mean that sometimes Dapper docs bubble to the top
<mdke> ok
<kirkland> mdke: because that Dapper doc is the most popular according to Goog
<kirkland> mdke: yeah, you can assign weights to each
<mdke> what have we got at the moment?
<kirkland> mdke: equal weights, it's up to Google to sort the results
<mdke> so you think if we play with the weights, it won't help?
<kirkland> mdke: let me adjust them
<kirkland> mdke: but, I don't believe it'll help much ;-)
<kirkland> one moment
<mdke> i suppose ideally, the results would be sequential rather than mixed
<mdke> so official first, community, then manpages
<mdke> but I guess that isn't possible
<kirkland> mdke: okay, so weights need to add up to 1.0
<kirkland> mdke: i gave Official=0.5, Community=0.3, Manuals=0.2
<kirkland> mdke: see if those results are any better for you
<mdke> hmm. doesn't seem to be much different. "Play dvd" still gives a manpage as its second result
<mdke> an irrelevant one too :(
<kirkland> mdke: agreed, either i'm doing something wrong, or weighting is almost ineffectual
<kirkland> mdke: i'm inclined to drop manpages from that list
<mdke> shall we try 0.6, 0.3 and 0.1 first?
<kirkland> mdke: i'm using 0.9, 0.05, 0.05 right now :-)
<mdke> heh
<kirkland> mdke: no effect
<kirkland> mdke: i must be doing something wrong
<kirkland> mdke: http://www.google.com/coop/docs/cse/cse_file.html
<mdke> same results here too
<kirkland> mdke: #
<kirkland>     *
<kirkland> # weight: A number between -1 and 1, that indicates how much results annotated with that label should be demoted or promoted.
<mdke> ah, perhaps we should go into the minuses
<kirkland> mdke: yeah, let me play with that
<kirkland> mdke: okay, now it's looking better
<kirkland> mdke: i went with 1, 0, -1
<mdke> looking good
<mdke> i wonder how we should deal with the different versions on the official docs
<kirkland> that's tough...
<kirkland> we could use the same weighting
<kirkland> (now that I've figured out what i've been doing wrong)
<mdke> hmm
<mdke> it has to add up to 0?
<kirkland> but someone might actually want 7.04 for whatever reason
<kirkland> mdke: no
<mdke> hmm
<mdke> not sure how best to deal with those
<kirkland> mdke: that's a tough one
<kirkland> mdke: refinements?
<mdke> how hard would it be to have different weighting for the search bar on different parts of the site?
<kirkland> mdke: you'd have to create a a separate CSE (custom search engine) for each distro
<kirkland> mdke: not terribly hard to do, but your maintenance cost multiplies
<mdke> yeah
<kirkland> mdke: search for "play a dvd 7.10"
<mdke> maybe we use refinements then
<kirkland> and then for "play a dvd 8.04"
<kirkland> we just need to jam a version into the search terms itself
<mdke> yeah, that works nicely
<kirkland> mdke: let me think on that
<kirkland> mdke: search again, and you should see the link colours match our theme
<mdke> cool
<kirkland> mdke: basically, on the q=TERM we need to dynamically insert q=TERM+8.04 or whatever
<kirkland> mdke: based on the place we are on the page
<kirkland> mdke: on the "site", i mean
<mdke> sounds tricky
<kirkland> and it limits yours results
<kirkland> mdke: refinements would be the way to go, IMHO
 * mdke nods
<kirkland> mdke: do you prefer the words, intrepid, hardy, etc. or the versioned numbers?
<mdke> versions!!!
<mdke> heresy :)
<kirkland> mdke: i like the words :-)
<mdke> me too, but they're not for users
<mdke> I'm just playing with the idea of whether it would be desirable to have our own search rather than google. It's those adverts that I think will annoy people
<kirkland> mdke: yup
<kirkland> mdke: i don't care either way
<kirkland> mdke: see the ubuntu version refinements
<kirkland> mdke: search http://people.ubuntu.com/~kirkland/helpsearch.html?cx=003883529982892832976%3Ae2vwumte3fq&cof=FORID%3A9&ie=UTF-8&q=play+a+dvd&sa=Search
<mdke> kirkland: sorry, lost internet
<mdke> back now
<kirkland> mdke: search http://people.ubuntu.com/~kirkland/helpsearch.html?cx=003883529982892832976%3Ae2vwumte3fq&cof=FORID%3A9&ie=UTF-8&q=play+a+dvd&sa=Search
<mdke> hmm
<kirkland> mdke: i can shoot a note to the list, if you'd like to gather feedback there?
<kirkland> mdke: point to this demo page, etc?
#ubuntu-doc 2008-09-30
<glade88> 'lo -- Can anyone help me with the wiki?
<kirkland> glade88: what's your problem
<glade88> kirkland: I have two wikipages, Dave701 and SayakBanerjee.. I presently use SayakBanerjee. There are some revisions on both of them. Can I merge both of them so that: 1. Am am left with SayakBanerjee 2. SayakBanerjee has the revisions belonging to Dave701+SayakBanerjee ?
<glade88> I know how to delete Dave701 but I wish I could have all revisions copied to SayakBanerjee before I delete it..
<kirkland> glade88: i don't think that's possible...  what i'd recommend is putting a redirect on Dave701 to SayakBanerjee
<kirkland> glade88: thus, Dave701 will have it's history maintained
<kirkland> glade88: and the same for Sayak*
<kirkland> glade88: and anyone landing on Dave701 will be -> to Sayak
<glade88> kirkland: I cannot have a redirect on Dave701 since if anyone want to see the revisions on Dave701, he/she'd be redir to SayakBanerjee
<glade88> so there would be no way to view the revisions then
<kirkland> glade88: you just add ?edit to the url
<glade88> I have done that..
<kirkland> glade88: let me find you an example....
<glade88> kirkland: I have added a line "See all prior modifications at [[Dave701]]
<glade88> isnt there any way the two wikipages could be merged? what does the wiki "copy" feature do?
<kirkland> glade88: i do not know...  but i would think not
<glade88> kirkland: okay
<glade88> thanks
#ubuntu-doc 2008-10-02
<syshobbit> hola hay gente?
<syshobbit> hello?
<perlluver> hello
<syshobbit> hi perlluver english or spanish?
<perlluver> english
<syshobbit> ok so this is the forum for the dominican ubuntu group right?
<perlluver> no this if for documentation as far as I know
<syshobbit> regarding the dominican ubuntu?
<perlluver> No, the help system, and Wiki writing
<perlluver> although, I suppose all Locales are here
<syshobbit> oh oh oh sorry I notice just now is d o c
<perlluver> indeed
<syshobbit> I was trying to connect to ubuntu-do
<syshobbit> thank you anyways
<perlluver> one letter to many
<perlluver> yw
<syshobbit> yup
<syshobbit> lol
<syshobbit> well bye now
<syshobbit> take care
<perlluver> bye
<perlluver> you too
<DoruHush> hello
<DoruHush> I have a question (or more) about documentation (Romanian)
<DoruHush> a few days ago I was ask by the romanian loco team to be in charge with the romanian documentation
<DoruHush> most of the time this means coordinating the people who translate the english docs  into romanian but
<DoruHush> if there are other things I should know about how a documentation team work
<DoruHush> I'll be glad to leran about them
<DoruHush> I need a guide of some sort
#ubuntu-doc 2008-10-04
<anilg> Hi... i pulled in ubuntu-doc and tried to run make serverguide.. but it failed with
<anilg> compilation error: file libs/ubuntu-html-chunk-cust.xsl line 6 element import
<anilg> xsl:import : unable to load /usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/xhtml/chunk.xsl
<anilg> http://rafb.net/p/JiLFTH45.html
<anilg> How do I build the serverguide?
<nixternal> anilg: sudo apt-get build-dep ubuntu-docs
<nixternal> then retry the makefile
<anilg> nixternal: thanks.. that worked
 * anilg is replying around 9 hours late
<anilg> is it normal for hundreds of "No localization exists for "c" or "". Using default "en"." when running make serverguide
<nixternal> anilg: no prob...that is fine, because I went to bed then and just woke up :)
<nixternal> now I am getting ready to head to our Linux Fest here in Chicago
<nixternal> and yes, you will see those warning messages
<nixternal> I had fixed that once locally years back but I can't remember what I did
<nixternal> if you google the warning messages, you might find the answer
#ubuntu-doc 2008-10-05
<Rocket2DMn> mdke, ping
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: (In case I'm not around at the moment, please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I get back)
<Rocket2DMn> mdke, do we want to delete CategoryNeedsExpansion page, or set a redirect to the Tag page?
<threni> good hello!
<threni> i have a question about one of the ubuntu community pages
<threni> is this a good place/time to discuss it?
<nellery> threni, ask away!
<threni> It's just that I've been following this page:
<threni> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AspireOne
<threni> because i've just got an Aspire One and replaced the supplied OS with Ubuntu
<threni> it's my first taste of linux, and i like it (i'm a windows developer)
<threni> this page seems to be changing fairly frequently, and today it says:
<threni> NOTE: Wireless support is built in Intrepid Ibex (8.10) because the kernel is >= 2.6.27.
<threni> (this is under step 3, nearish the top)
<threni> but that page discusses 8.4.1
<threni> there IS a section later on which discusses 8.10, but not at this part of the document.
<threni> so it's confusing
<threni> i've followed those steps and although I've got wifi working, it's not perfect
<threni> oh great
<threni> i'll carry on in case someone else reads this!
<threni> the part which deals with 8.4.1 has changed a little, and i'm wondering if i should try the new (it looks different to me) instructions at the top (ie the 8.4.1 parts)
<threni> but i'm not completely confident that it actually does deal with 8.4.1 any more - perhaps the instructions AND the description of the instructions both apply to 8.10 only
<threni> i hope this makes sense.  i think it needs someone to check it out quickly and change it back or whatever.
<threni> it says:
<threni> AspireOne (last edited 2008-10-03 21:30:59 by ben-crimson)
<threni> but the link isn't working
<Atamira> you might want to join the mailing list as well threni
<Atamira> we're an inactive bunch in here, but very active on the mailing list
<threni> woah - i was literally moving the mouse to clise this window!
<threni> the docs say irc is the fastest way to get a response - perhaps that needs changing too!
<threni> ok, i'll check that out
#ubuntu-doc 2009-09-28
<Rocket2DMn> "Changing the boot menu timeout" and "Changing the default operating system to boot"
<XDevHald> Aye, Easy to change boot timeout and moving the default up or down.
<Rocket2DMn> I havent fiddled with grub2 to write that documentation for grub2
<Rocket2DMn> I wonder if we might need a string freeze exception to get that stuff in there
<Rocket2DMn> unless we can cram it in before the freeze
<XDevHald> The freeze is on the 1st right?
<Rocket2DMn> yeah
<XDevHald> If you can get or find me a landing page for Grub2 I can pull up the work and have it done before the 1st
<Rocket2DMn> here's the bug i filed - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs/+bug/437446
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 437446 in ubuntu-docs "Need documentation on Grub2" [Undecided,New]
<Rocket2DMn> there is a link to the Grub2 page on the team wiki
<Rocket2DMn> afaik, that is the only ubuntu documentation on grub2 right now
<XDevHald> Yeah I see it. hmmm
<XDevHald> They already have the Timeout added on the "Errors" sub-menu, pretty self-explanitory. They do not however have Error 15
<Rocket2DMn> I don't think we document troubleshooting grub errors in the system documentation
<Rocket2DMn> there is also stuff about grub in the serverguide which needs to be added to.
<Rocket2DMn> mdke, I thought you were going to change the title back to my version on the firewall document - "Firewall and network monitoring"
<Rocket2DMn> not a big deal either way
<XDevHald> Hey Rocket. I appreciate you guys letting me in the team but I will have to move on as this appears to not be my field of work anymore.
<Rocket2DMn> XDevHald, sorry to hear that.  Why do you feel that way?
<XDevHald> I have tried to gather my work, and of course having a 1 year old boy and married it is very difficult to even think.
<Rocket2DMn> XDevHald, if you can't get the grub2 documentation, that's ok
<Rocket2DMn> we don't normally work in a time crunch like this
<Rocket2DMn> There is other documentation type work you can do if you want
<XDevHald> Yeah, I know which is why I found it weird for a gathered doc before freeze.
<Rocket2DMn> don't worry about that then
<Rocket2DMn> you can still make changes after string freeze, they just won't go into Karmic, they will go into Lucid
<XDevHald> Sounds great Rocket. I haven't touched the wiki in 3 years, I'll need a little help (coding I am a guru at) but just guidance on what to do and what is need and where to go from there.
<Rocket2DMn> you can also do wiki work if you want
<XDevHald> I'll stick with the wiki work.
<XDevHald> Sys I'll leave for you guys.
<Rocket2DMn> sure, that's actually where I do most of my work
<Rocket2DMn> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Wiki
<Rocket2DMn> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Tag
<Rocket2DMn> we use tags these days to mark pages that need work
<XDevHald> Excellent. Now how do I know what needs work and etc. Just need a starting point and I can go from there.
<Rocket2DMn> each tag section has a link - "List of pages with this tag. "
<korin43> Hi, I have to write a short-ish manual for a technical writing class and i was wondering if anyone has an idea. I'm relatively good at this. I could write a manual on packaging, but the updates needed to the packing guide aren't enough to get a good grade in the class. I also thought about kernel compiling, which needs a better manual badly, but I think it would be too complicated for the teacher.
<Savvy> hi guys
<Savvy> im a newbie to linux i just wanted to know tht how can i edit my shell?
<mdke> morning all
<mdke> korin43: we have a list of current tasks here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/Tasks - if anything takes your fancy, then feel free to contact the mailing list. Some people might already be working on particular items so it's good to contact the list first
<SpacePigeon> Hi
<SpacePigeon> I am willing to join the documentation team.
<SpacePigeon> Is there any project I can start helping on?
<mdke> SpacePigeon: yes, there is always plenty to do. You should find information about tasks and how to contribute on the pages beginning at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam
<mdke> SpacePigeon: but feel free to ask any questions if you have any, either here or on the mailing list
<SpacePigeon> Ok
<SpacePigeon> I am browsing a Taks wiki page under the DocumentationTeam link, thanks for pointing me to the right direction
<SpacePigeon> mdke, so, I went into a launchpad bug page. Should I start working on only the "New" items?
<SpacePigeon> or on the confirmed?
<mdke> SpacePigeon: either is fine, as long as no one else is working on them
<SpacePigeon> mdke, nice. Ill start right off..
<mdke> SpacePigeon: awesome!
<SpacePigeon> mdke, is there some way I can filter english and spanish bugs only?
<mdke> SpacePigeon: all bugs should be in English. If they aren't then we usually close them because we can't understand them as a team
<mdke> SpacePigeon: the exception to that is bugs in translations which might be in the applicable language
<SpacePigeon> oh ok... so all tasks for DocumentationTeam are in english...
<mdke> yep
<mdke> we also have a lot of translation if you are interested in that; that is managed by the Ubuntu translation teams
<mdke> they translate Ubuntu software *and* documentation
<SpacePigeon> Yeah I might join one of those
<SpacePigeon> Tasks don't seem very well organized in the launchpad buglist
<SpacePigeon> Yeah I think I might as well start translating documentation
<mdke> they aren't that organised, unfortunately
<mdke> the tasks I mean.
<mdke> have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations for translation info
 * mdke -> shower
<SpacePigeon> mdke, Because you are still here, I notify you that I was working on this https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SuspendHowtoNew
<SpacePigeon> mdke, hi again
<Zachk18> hello SpacePigeon
<SpacePigeon> hi Zachk18
<SpacePigeon> yeah, I submitted some documentation draft yesterday, do you want to check it?
<Zachk18> ah sure...are you on a doc team?
<SpacePigeon> http://help.ubuntu.com/community/SuspendHowtoNew
<SpacePigeon> not yet
<SpacePigeon> I am volunteering
<Zachk18> are you on any teams?
<missaugustina> SpacePigeon: send an email to the ubuntu-doc mailing list please.
<SpacePigeon> oh ok
<SpacePigeon> thats how it works, nice
<missaugustina> SpacePigeon: Anytime you want to work on something, send an email to the list to let people know.
<SpacePigeon> Oh I sent one? Maybe the system did
<missaugustina> SpacePigeon: Someone else might already be working on it.
<Zachk18> SpacePigeon, i'll still review it for you. and i'll let you know..
<SpacePigeon> missaugustina, yeah, I went into the launchpad tasklist and assigned myself to the bug (is that the correct thing to do?) and then that sent an email to the list
<missaugustina> SpacePigeon: I didn't see an email from you but I will check again.
<SpacePigeon> yeah, i'm wolter
<missaugustina> SpacePigeon: Check with the list before assigning yourself a bug.
<Wolter> missaugustina, will do
<missaugustina> Wolter: the only  reason I say that is because I've done that before, assigned myself a bug only to find out that there are other folks working on something related to what I wanted to work on.
<Wolter> Yes, I perfectly understand :)
<missaugustina> This is the wiki page for the Docteam - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/
<missaugustina> This is the info on the mailing list - https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-doc
<Wolter> missaugustina, thanks
<missaugustina> Wolter: np :)
<missaugustina> The wiki is  especially challenging because several people could be working on one thing and not know it.
<missaugustina> We use the list as the main point of communication to avoid situations like that.
<Wolter> Oh oops yeah I joined the team yesterday at launchpad
<Wolter> good to know
<missaugustina> Yeah lots of areas, it can be confusing to keep track of ;)
<missaugustina> I filter my emails so anything to the ubuntu-doc list is labeled one way and launchpad bugs are labeled somewhere else.
<missaugustina> Sometimes LP bugs can be high traffic especially this close to a release, so people might miss if you are assigning yourself a bug.
<missaugustina> Wolter: what is the bug that you assigned yourself?
<Wolter> missaugustina, a bug about SuspendHowto being a deprecated document
<missaugustina> Is there a bug id#?
<missaugustina> This was in Launchpad, right?
<missaugustina> I was looking for the notification in my email, but can't find anything.
<missaugustina> Wolter: Thanks for helping out! Just be sure to email the list and let folks know about your submission :)
<Wolter> missaugustina, yeah I just did
<Wolter> haha
<Zachk18> shaunm, Gwaihir hello
<Gwaihir> hi
<Zachk18> so...welcome if it's your first
<Wolter> hey Zachk18, how are you doing?
<Zachk18> Wolter, hey
<Zachk18> Wolter, anything you need?
<Wolter> Zachk18, just wondering if you saw my draft yesterday
<Wolter> I understand if you have no time for it, I already linked it in the mailing list
<Simone1> Ciao volevo sapere se c'Ã¨ Alessio Treglia in questa chat avrei bisogno di parlargli in pvt
<Zachk18> shaunm, welcome
#ubuntu-doc 2009-09-29
<mdke> morning all
<sianis> hello
<sianis> can somebody explain me howto generate html files from kubuntu docs?
#ubuntu-doc 2009-09-30
<alourie> takin: hey murray
<Zachk18> whow.....there is like, nobody on at this time of morning usually
<takin> Hi Alex
<takin> I don't see you in the list
<alourie> takin: let's take it private?
<alourie> takin: just refresh the list, I shouldv'e appeared as soon as I joined the channel
 * Zachk18 is back (gone 00:00:31)
<dhillon-v10> starcraftman: hi what's up
#ubuntu-doc 2009-10-01
<Zachk18> mat_t, welcome
<Zachk18> mat_t, i'm back
<mat_t> hi Zachk18
<mat_t> how can I help?
<Zachk18> mat_t, ah i was gonna ask you the same thing
<Zachk18> i'm not exactly new here
<mat_t> go on
<Zachk18> mat_t, well that's it...i'm not new...if you really wanna know 'bout me hre's my wiki... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Zachk18
<mat_t> Zachk18: cool! Is there anything you're interested in helping with?
<Zachk18> mat_t, if you'll look at this.... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups look at who last edited it
<mat_t> great stuff!
<mat_t> So, there's plenty of areas we could use your help with. Right now for example we're working on some changes to Ubuntu.com and we want to make it easier for people to swich to Ubuntu
<mat_t> in particular, for Windows users
<Zachk18> ok
<Zachk18> well my wiki has a link regarding firebird...didn't know if you looked at that at all
<mat_t> So we should look at the existing tutorials for beginners, eg. how to create the Ubuntu CD or flash drive and see if we can make them better
<Zachk18> yeppers
<mdke> the team has planned a new installation guide to cover topics like this, if you're interested in helping out it would be great to hear from you on the mailing list
<mat_t> mdke: sure, sounds great
<Zachk18> i get emails all the time from the ubuntu mailing list
<mat_t> mdke: not sure if I'm currently subscribed, what's the url?
<Zachk18> same here
<mdke> well, it's the ubuntu-doc list
<mdke> to subscribe you can visit http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-doc
<mdke> it's kinda the heart of the -doc project, we are pretty quiet on irc
<mat_t> mdke: cool, I'm subscribing right now then
<Zachk18> shit...forgot my password
<mdke> mat_t: cool
<mdke> mat_t, Zachk18 - details of the proposed installation guide are here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Specs/KarmicInstallationGuide
<mdke> that work should continue in the Lucid cycle
<Zachk18> ok....i'll look at that...i'm helping somebody set up a wiki about them right now...
<mat_t> mdke: looks fantastic
<mat_t> mdke: FAQ section with basic questions is a great idea. We want to include such page on ubuntu.com as well, mostly addressing Windows users who are thinking about trying Ubuntu
<mat_t> mdke: do you have any content for this section yet?
<mdke> I think that missaugustina is working on it, I'm not sure
<mdke> this is not going to be ready for karmic though, as a document
<mdke> I think we'd hope to make it available from help.ubuntu.com for Lucid
<mdke> when available, obviously links can be added on www.ubuntu.com
<mat_t> mdke: great
<mat_t> mdke: our copywriter is working on a simple FAQ page now, would be great if you guys had any suggestions
<mat_t> mdke: I'll pi
<mat_t> I'll point her to the mailing list, too
<mdke> thanks
<mat_t> mdke: thank you, too. I'm off - it's late here! :)
<mdke> obviously I'd encourage her / you to look at the existing documentation on help.ubuntu.com and see if that can be improved, rather than adding documentation to www.ubuntu.com which might duplicate material already available on the help site
<mat_t> mdke: good point
<mdke> it's a bit ragged at the moment (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation is the landing page for community documentation)
<mdke> that's really why we wanted to do a proper guide
<mat_t> mdke: stuff on ubuntu.com will be rather basic - we would always link to help.ubuntu.com on a "find out more" basis anyway
 * mdke nods
<mdke> we really need a more friendly installation landing page :(
<mat_t> I agree - we'll get there! :)
<mat_t> ok, bedtime for me!
<mdke> good night
<mat_t> night!
<Zachk18> whew
#ubuntu-doc 2009-10-02
<Zachk18> mdke, hello
<Zachk18> TEAM!
<Zachk18> SpacePigeon, welcome
<Zachk18> oh hey wolte3r
<SpacePigeon> hey Zachk18
<SpacePigeon> Yes I am wolter haha
<Zachk18> SpacePigeon, so.....what's up?
<SpacePigeon> Zachk18, well, not much
<SpacePigeon> I've been lousy on documentation
<SpacePigeon> the suspend stuff
<Zachk18> ah
<Zachk18> do you have a wiki?
<SpacePigeon> I just got contagious with the want-a-combat-flight-simulator-for-linux virus
<Zachk18> wiki about you i mean
<SpacePigeon> yes, I think its WolterHellmund
<SpacePigeon> and have being the last 2 days searching for a flight sim i could play
<SpacePigeon> found none, of course
<SpacePigeon> ah no, i had one in gnome.org
<Zachk18> of course
<SpacePigeon> I could make one pretty rapidly though
<Zachk18> oh
<Zachk18> i see
<SpacePigeon> should I make it under the help.ubuntu.com root, or under community?
<Zachk18> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Zachk18
<Zachk18> that's mine
<Zachk18> take a look for links and layout
<SpacePigeon> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WolterHellmund
<SpacePigeon> there was mine haha
<SpacePigeon> ill format it to match your style
<SpacePigeon> Zachk18, where do I get the nice icons of IRC and launchpad?
<Zachk18> you mean the ones i have?
<Zachk18> hello?
<SpacePigeon> yeah
<SpacePigeon> sorry
<SpacePigeon> I don't get visually notified unless you say my name sorry :)
<Zachk18> ok....i'll just post each icon
<SpacePigeon> but, are they part of the syntax or you just link the image?
<SpacePigeon> i could link the image
<Zachk18> here....hold on a sec
<Zachk18> there SpacePigeon take a look
<SpacePigeon> take a look where?
<Zachk18> at your wiki
<Zachk18> look at the wiki!
 * Zachk18 tones deep. "The wiki is calling you"
<SpacePigeon> oh ok ok
<SpacePigeon> oh thanks!
<Zachk18> i changed something again....
<Zachk18> take a look
<SpacePigeon> yeah, I wouldn't have bugged you, but I thought they were part of the wiki syntax
<SpacePigeon> like {i}
<SpacePigeon> and such
<Zachk18> and i'll be back later
<Zachk18> yeah
<Zachk18> no prob
<SpacePigeon> the numbering?
<Zachk18> no
<Zachk18> just look
<SpacePigeon> oh
<SpacePigeon> hey Zachk18 take a look now :)
<Zachk18> SpacePigeon, sure
<SpacePigeon> hi
<SpacePigeon> wtf..
<SpacePigeon> nothing
<Zachk18> yep
<Zachk18> nothing
<SpacePigeon> wow, gl-117 is a niiice game
<Zachk18> ah ok........
<SpacePigeon> better get sleeping now
<SpacePigeon> bye Zachk18 , you should try it if you like flight sims
<Zachk18> ok
<Zachk18> later
<Zachk18> mdke, hello
<trijntje> I think I found some mistakes in the karmic documentation. I tried to file a bugreport but I've gotten no reaction. Is a bugreport the correct way to do report a (possible) error in the docs?
<Zachk18> trijntje, welcome
<trijntje> Zachk18, thanks, its quiet here
<Zachk18> yeah.....first time?
<trijntje> yep
<Zachk18> well then welcome welcome
<trijntje> everybody thinks, documentation freeze, i'm done ;)
<Zachk18> hmm?
<missaugustina> Hi trijntje, what is the bug # ?
<trijntje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs/+bug/440227
<ubot4`> Launchpad bug 440227 in ubuntu-docs "non existing menu entry in networking Karmic" [Undecided,New]
<missaugustina> trijntje, you found errors in the Dutch version of the Ubuntu Karmic Networking documentation?
<trijntje> missaugustina, no, in the original that I was going to translate
<missaugustina> trijntje ok gotcha. I am looking at it now.
<trijntje> missaugustina, there is also a description of how the NetworkManager icon looks, but they've changed that in Karmic
<trijntje> missaugustina, but i cannot seem to find the 'original' docs, just the translation templates
<missaugustina> trijntje what section of the Internet docs?
<trijntje> missaugustina, does this help? internet/C/nm.xml:22(para)  (new to this, sorry)
<missaugustina> trijntje alright checking that one
<missaugustina> trijntje: I am still looking through the source
<dragon> Hello. Is the package "unattended-upgrades" documented somewhere?
<missaugustina> trijntje: you are saying the description of the icon is inconsistent with what the icon looks like in Karmic, correct?
<missaugustina> for Network Manager?
<trijntje> missaugustina, yes
<missaugustina> OK, the bug you filed says the menu option is non-existent
<missaugustina> is that also true?
<trijntje> yes, in both jaunty and karmic
<missaugustina> ok, the documentation seems to indicate it is not in that menu.
<missaugustina> The docs seem to indicate it is in the upper right hand portion of the screen in the notification area, and to access and configure it, you have to right or left click on that portion of the screen.
<missaugustina> trijntje so the icon for that is different in Karmic, so it won't match that description for both the wireless and LAN connections?
<missaugustina> or just the LAN or just the wireless?
<trijntje> I can only check for LAN, I run karmic in vbox so i have no wireless
<trijntje> LAN is different
<missaugustina> OK, this is what the documentation describes: "It looks like two over-lapping computer screens"
<trijntje> correct
<missaugustina> OK, just clarifying.
<trijntje> no problem
<missaugustina> I don't see where in the Network Manager documentation it points to Administration > Network
<missaugustina> Is there a line number?
<missaugustina> Or is that in a different document?
<trijntje> Administration > Network is here:  Located in internet/C/modem.xml:50(para)
<trijntje> or the translation template: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/ubuntu-docs/+pots/internet/nl/262/+translate
<missaugustina> trijntje: this sounds like two separate bugs
<missaugustina> bug 1: Network Manager LAN icon description in internet/nm.xml line 22 doesn't match Karmic
<ubot4`> missaugustina: Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out
<trijntje> It are two different bugs, i'm sorry i didn't make that clear
<missaugustina> bug 2: Administration > Network doesn't exist, Menu item points to it in internet/C/modem.xml:50
<missaugustina> Did you file two bugs or just one?
<trijntje> just one, i wasnt sure i was doing it the right way
<missaugustina> It's ok, I'm reviewing the documentation to see what the confusion it
<missaugustina> is
<missaugustina> The networking menu comes from an entity defined in the lib directory
<missaugustina> &networking
<missaugustina> NetworkManager doesn't currently support modem connections, so you will need to <ulink url="apt:gnome-network-admin">install the gnome-network-admin package</ulink>.
<missaugustina> It doesn't look like a bug. User needs to install the gnome-network-admin package, and then the menu item will be available.
<missaugustina> Maybe the documenatation could be more clear in that regard.
<missaugustina> trijntje: menus are defined in libs/gnome-menus-c.ent
<trijntje> missaugustina, I see, we get the translation string one at the time, so i dont have the full text in front of me. Thats why I missed that
<missaugustina> trijntje: ah ok. If you are unsure if something is pointing to the right place, anything with an "&" in front of it followed by ";" is an entity under libs
<missaugustina> it will either be in the gnome-menus-c.ent or global.ent
<missaugustina> trijntje: if something ever points to the wrong thing, it can always be corrected in the .ent file :)
<missaugustina> trijntje: I will update the bug and close it out. Thanks for your help!!
<trijntje> missaugustina, I'm very new to all this, so I'm not realy understanding everything ;)
<trijntje> missaugustina, so thats for the missing menu entry bug, should i file a new one about the NetworkManager Icon?
<missaugustina> trijntje: Yes if they don't match then definitely file a bug.
<missaugustina> trijntje: what is the new icon? I use wireless so all I see is bars
<trijntje> missaugustina, it looks like two plugs plugged into eachother
<missaugustina> trijntje: great, mention that in the bug description. That's a really easy fix.
<trijntje> missaugustina, http://imagebin.org/66189
<trijntje> it might change later on, on alfa it looked lik the physical ethernet port..
<trijntje> and than like a cable plugged into the ethernet port, and now this
<missaugustina> trijntje: excellent. Sure post the bug and I'll assign it to myself. It probably won't make the Karmic release but I can fix it to describe whatever they end up using for the default theme.
<trijntje> missaugustina, will do, ill put in it changed 3 times in 5 day's
<trijntje> missaugustina, this is the bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs/+bug/440826
<ubot4`> Launchpad bug 440826 in ubuntu-docs "Network Manager LAN icon description doesnt match Karmic" [Undecided,New]
<missaugustina> trijntje: excellent, I will assign it to myself and update the documents after the Karmic release when we finally see what icon they decide on :) haha
<trijntje> missaugustina, ok, thanks for your help
<missaugustina> trijntje no problem, thanks for translating and taking the time to file these bugs!!
<trijntje> missaugustina, ubuntu must be perfect for world-domination ;)
<missaugustina> LOL
<sianis> hi all
<sianis> mdke: do you plan any other release after 9.10.8 ?
<Rocket2DMn> I think we should try to get a lot of the older bugs closed for 10.04 since it will be a LTS release
<Rocket2DMn> there are a fair number of wishlist and low priority bugs which would be nice to get fixed
<Rocket2DMn> mdke, do we do anything with crash reports?
<Zachk18> shaunm, welcome
#ubuntu-doc 2009-10-03
<Zachk18> Madpilot, welcome
<Madpilot> hi Zachk18
<Zachk18> so....been around long?
<Madpilot> a long time, actually, just not active in docs the last few years
<Madpilot> I helped to the massive rewrite of the 6.06 Dapper help files, then kind of drifted out of docwork
<Madpilot> these days I'm so far out of the loop I basically loiter here out of habit :)
<hollman> hello *
<Zachk18> hello
<Zachk18> welcome
<cumulus007> Hi, as an Ubuntu translator, I noticed the presence of the Ubuntu Server Guide as a translatable package
<cumulus007> I have a question regarding this: where are translated versions of this guide to be found?
<hollman> Zachk18, cumulus007 I have a question, I'm from Bogota, Colombia, I'm interesting to be part of the oficial documentation team,
<hollman> i like to translate the oficial documetatino to spanish, this is possible ?
<cumulus007> hollman, I'm sorry, I can't help you with that, I'm a translator
<cumulus007> You will have to contact the Spanish translation team, which can be found on Launchpad
<Zachk18> and i can't help except point you in the right direction
<Zachk18> which is where you already
<hollman> 4 exapmple
<hollman> we have https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Postfix
<hollman> is possible translate this ? where can i put my contributions ?
<Zachk18> hollman, if you are looking to join the doc team go here. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Zachk18 plenty of links to get you started
<Rocket2DMn> hollman, that is a community documenation wiki page
<Rocket2DMn> hollman, it can be translated, but anybody can update the page at any time, unlike the system docs
<Rocket2DMn> hollman, I don't know where the spanish team keeps wiki documentation
<hollman> Rocket2DMn, so, I have to be part of the oficial documentation wiki ?
<Rocket2DMn> hollman, no, it depends on what you want to translate
<Rocket2DMn> unfortunately I don't know much about doing translations on Launchpad, but the ones on LP would be for official system docs and other programs
<hollman> Rocket2DMn, I want to translate the officia documentation wiki to spanish
<Rocket2DMn> anything at  https://help.ubuntu.com/community is part of the Community Doc wiki, which anybody can edit
<Rocket2DMn> hollman, system docs are made available in html format at https://help.ubuntu.com/ (note there is no /community) - this isn't a wiki area
<hollman> Rocket2DMn, ok, but where can i put mi traslation ? for example in spanish
<Rocket2DMn> hollman, let me see if i can find the resource for you
<Rocket2DMn> here we go - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Translation
<hollman> Rocket2DMn, , thank you very much
<Rocket2DMn> no problem
<dhillon-v10> hello
<dhillon-v10> how is everyone doing
<Zachk18> dhillon-v10, good
<Zachk18> dhillon-v10, welcome
<dhillon-v10> <Zachk18> a new person, nice meeting you :)
<Zachk18> dhillon-v10, meaning i'm new or you are...cause i'm not
<dhillon-v10> <Zachk18> me... sorry about that
<Zachk18> dhillon-v10, it's cool
<dhillon-v10> <Zachk18> I was actually waiting for phil, he was going to help me in writing a doc. can you help, I to focus better on my audience
<Zachk18> sure
<dhillon-v10> alright, so I am writing on gnome-display-appearance and do you me to send you the file
<Zachk18> is this a doc or program
<dhillon-v10> a doc.
<Zachk18> ok
<Zachk18> a link to the doc page workd
<dhillon-v10> alright I am sending the file
<dhillon-v10> <Zachk18> did you get the file, I don't think you have started downloading the file
<Zachk18> dhillon-v10, i haven't started it yet
<dhillon-v10> <Zachk18> alright :)
<dhillon-v10> <Zachk18> it timed out :( I will send again just a sec.
<Zachk18> i can't accept that
<Zachk18> won't let me
<dhillon-v10> <Zachk18> I will upload it somewhere just a sec.
<dhillon-v10> how about this: http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=41603ece246aa8cec79b87b207592a1ce04e75f6e8ebb871
<dhillon-v10> <Zachk18> I hope it works this time
<Zachk18> got it. needs some work though
<dhillon-v10> a lot of work, but I don't know which direction to proceed in
<Zachk18> well sentence structure is always a good way to start
<Zachk18> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuWithFirebirdDatabase that's a doc i'm working on...look at that for an example
<Zachk18> bbiab
<dhillon-v10> don't worry about that I was just writing something so I can get a baseline established I didn't really care about the structure
<missaugustina> hi dhillon-v10 and Zachk18 - I think Phil had specific feedback for dhillon-v10 regarding the actual content and focusing on the end-user.
<missaugustina> Zachk18 there is a lot more to good documentation than sentence structure and word choice.
<dhillon-v10> <missaugustina> thanks for taking my side ;)
<missaugustina> dhillon-v10, I haven't looked at your documentation, but if Phil's suggestion was to identify your audience, maybe start out by writing some Personas?
<missaugustina> http://www.usability.gov is a U.S. usability website
<missaugustina> Usability is totally focused on identifying the target audience. In technical documentation, we also test usability of the document and define a target audience.
<dhillon-v10> <missaugustina> he was going to help me out today, but the problem is this: if I make it too basic it doesn't cover the main issues and if too complicated people would get confused...
<missaugustina> dhillon-v10 Well, a trend I see with new doc folks is to focus too much on the "icing" or the easy to fix stuff. The core stuff is often overlooked ;)
<missaugustina> dhillon-v10 exactly the connundrum :) I can look at your doc and give some suggestions
<missaugustina> Usually the way I work around this is to write up a few personas
<dhillon-v10> please do, http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=41603ece246aa8cec79b87b207592a1ce04e75f6e8ebb871
<missaugustina> Personas are fictional profiles of typical people who will use your documenation
<missaugustina> You create a "character" or set of "characters" and then write to them. It's just a writing tool that helps you to focus your documentation.
<dhillon-v10> <missaugustina> phil gave me ideas on writing personas and also some examples but I am still a bit confused about *what* exactly to focus on
<dhillon-v10> do you want me to  give you some sample questions I found regarding display
<missaugustina> OK that makes sense. Usually I search the forums for common questions
<missaugustina> Sure!
<missaugustina> i just downloaded your doc and I'm looking at it.
<dhillon-v10> just a sec.
<missaugustina> I just skimmed it, but I have some suggestions for better addressing your audience. :)
<missaugustina> First off, with system documentation, we're writing to the most inexperienced user
<missaugustina> Do not assume that the user knows what a graphics card is, for instance
<dhillon-v10> most commonly people are asking about setting up dual monitoring, the guide for that is about 5 pages, how should I go about including that in
<Zachk18> missaugustina, where did you download his doc from? the website he posted it to?
<missaugustina> Define everything. It's better to start at that level and then you can remove things if it seems to basic
<missaugustina> Zachk18, yes
<Zachk18> missaugustina, ok jut wondering
<dhillon-v10> <missaugustina> but still it is quite hard for me to condense 5 page information in 2 paragraphs, don't you think so
<missaugustina> dhillon-v10: Did they say it needs to be 2 paragraphs?
<missaugustina> dhillon-v10: I would consider sub-sections
<missaugustina> Break things up into steps and then each section represents one step of the procedure
<dhillon-v10> <missaugustina> not really, I see where you are getting at :)
<missaugustina> Start out with an outline.
<missaugustina> 1. What is Dual Monitor
<dhillon-v10> this makes more sense, because now the front page, will be only a few paragraphs and the rest could be a bit long
<dhillon-v10> you are smart
<missaugustina> 2. Setting up Dual Monitor with a supported Graphics Card
<missaugustina> And you can break that down however it makes sense.
<missaugustina> Bite-sized chunks :)
<dhillon-v10> alright, so that would be the first step then
<dhillon-v10> but what about the graphics card issue
<missaugustina> Then a third  section to address common graphics card issues
<dhillon-v10> oh, never mind
<missaugustina> 3. Common Issues with Dual Monitor
<missaugustina> Something like that
<missaugustina> So that would be one section -- Dual Monitors
<missaugustina> The overall doc would be Gnome Display or whatever the title is of the application
<dhillon-v10> alright thanks for help, I will modify this doc. and can you privately send me your email address if you don't mind, I can send you the doc. when completed
<dhillon-v10> for review
<missaugustina> You divide it into chapters, Chapter 1. Dual Monitor, Chapter 2. Monitor Resolution, Chapter 3. Xorg.conf or something like that
<missaugustina> Yeah no problem
<missaugustina> First step though, I would write out personas.
<dhillon-v10> thank you very much for help
<missaugustina> Second step, write an  outline of what each section is and what it will cover
<missaugustina> Do that at the high level first, then you can move your writing into the appropriate section
<dhillon-v10> alright, so this would be like a guide rather than a page long document, I was just looking for that
<missaugustina> If you are more comfortable with doing writing and not sure about outline, I can help you figure out the outline
<missaugustina> yeah, is this going to be in the system docs or wiki?
<dhillon-v10> please go on :)
<dhillon-v10> system docs
<missaugustina> Excellent! Yes, then do an outline. Look at the networking section to get ideas of how complicated sections have been organized
<missaugustina> I just submitted usb-creator and I have a copy on my wiki page if you want to see how I organized that
<dhillon-v10> that's another good idea, I will look at that
<missaugustina> Note that the wiki doc isn't the exact same as what was submitted to the docs (mdke and i did additional edits)
<dhillon-v10> I see now the networking section is organized just as you said :)
<missaugustina> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AugustinaBlair/MakeUsbStartupDraft
<missaugustina> With the usb-creator I didn't define "personas" but defined "use cases"
<missaugustina> That application is pretty focused and  straightforward
<missaugustina> Use Cases are the functionality you would expect a person to perform with the application
<dhillon-v10> so, the use cases are the personas, I have seen those a lot in other wikis just didn't know what they were
<missaugustina> It comes from Software Engineering
<missaugustina> No
<missaugustina> Use Cases are defined functionality at a high level
<dhillon-v10> well a bit like personas I meant to say
<missaugustina> Personas are profiles of typical users
<missaugustina> Nope, not at all like personas :)
<dhillon-v10> okay, never mind :)
<dhillon-v10> I understand now
<missaugustina> Personas might mention what use cases the person might use
<dhillon-v10> a bit, I will make the outline and email it to you probably tomorrow
<missaugustina> Personas describe the user, the use case describes the functionality
<missaugustina> Take your time :) thanks for contributing :)
<dhillon-v10> thank you very much for helping me, this is exactly what I was looking for : I wish I was just as smart :)
<missaugustina> LOL its not about being smart.
<missaugustina> Just about getting the education/training/experience :)
<missaugustina> I've been working in the tech industry for 10+ years.
<dhillon-v10> well that could be true, I am in high school so that's probably why
<missaugustina> Use Cases and other terms like that come from Software Engineering which would be covered in a software engineering course.
<missaugustina> Personas come from usability which would be covered in a Usability or User Interace Design course.
<missaugustina> If you were studying anything computer related in college :)
<dhillon-v10> that makes sense too, when I go to college I will probably learn those
<missaugustina> Yep, if it's a good program. And you'll hear them if you work in the industry... a lot. :D
<missaugustina> Anyways good luck and feel free to email me your stuff. I'm more than happy to help you out. Thanks!
<dhillon-v10> alright, thanks again, and bye
<hollman> Todos cordialmente invitados a charla de reporte de bugs y traducciones al proyecto Ubuntu en #ubuntu-classroom-es
<mdke> evening all
<missaugustina> Good evening mdke
<ZachieK> mdke, hey
<mdke> Gwaihir: wow, usb-creator already translated into Italian, impressive!
<mdke> and spanish
<Gwaihir> :)
<Gwaihir> the global jam works!
<mdke> yeah, definitely
<Gwaihir> heading to be... ciao!
<Gwaihir> s/be/bed
#ubuntu-doc 2009-10-04
<Rocket2DMn> mdke, some other bugs have been filed and patched tonight that should probably be string freeze exceptions
<Rocket2DMn> I'd send out an email, but I'm sure there will be more before the night is up
<mdke> morning all
<mdke> hi adiroiban
<adiroiban> hi
<slacker_nl> hello, could someone proof read the following: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/NetworkConfigurationCommandLine/Automatic I want to replace https://help.ubuntu.com/community/NetworkConfigurationCommandLine with the new document
<Rocket2DMn> mdke, in Karmic's Applications->Accessories menu, it displays "gedit Text Editor" which doesn't match our documentation
<Rocket2DMn> I see bug 421221 for the initial issue, but it is marked as Fix Released since they changed it from "gedit" to "gedit Text Editor"
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 421221 in gedit "menu entry says 'gedit' should say 'Text Editor'" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/421221
<Rocket2DMn> However, there still seems to be some discussion upstream about how to properly handle it.  Should I open a new bug against ubuntu-docs, or should I open the task on that previous bug for ubuntu-docs?
<Rocket2DMn> I'm hesitant to open an entirely new bug against gedit for it
<Rocket2DMn> I guess I can ask in ubuntu-devel if they plan on fixing it
<slacker_nl> hello, could someone proof read the following: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/NetworkConfigurationCommandLine/Automatic I want to replace https://help.ubuntu.com/community/NetworkConfigurationCommandLine with the new document
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: that sounds like a bug in gedit to me as the menu entry doesn't follow the HIG, I'd suggest asking ubuntu-desktop
<Rocket2DMn> ok mdke , i'll ping them
<Rocket2DMn> thanks
<Rocket2DMn> mdke, another thing that occurred to me last night - do we currently format our xml files for consistency?  In the past I've seen files that varied from doc to doc
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: no we don't - they definitely vary
<Rocket2DMn> It would be really nice to get something like that, it shouldn't be all that difficult I think
<Rocket2DMn> mdke, I'm not sure I really understand how the translations work when we do freeze exceptions or SRUs
<mdke> yeah, I agree. Do you fancy looking into a tool that could do it reliably? I guess 'tidy' should do it, it has an xml function
<Rocket2DMn> if a diff doesn't include text that needs to be retranslated, how does that still affect translators?
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: but it *does* include text that needs to be retranslated
<mdke> the original has changed, so the translators need to translate the new string
<Rocket2DMn> but you said "The translators should leave them as they are, but changing the string
<Rocket2DMn> will still require the translator to retranslate the string."
<mdke> right, let me give you an example
<Rocket2DMn> if they leave them as they are, what changes?
<mdke> the string "ubuntu-restricted-extras includes flashplugin-nonfree" gets translated
<mdke> in Italian that might be: "ubuntu-restricted-extra include flashplugin-nonfree"
<mdke> then it changes to "ubuntu-restricted-extras includes flashplugin-installer"
<mdke> that's a new string that doesn't yet have a translation, so it will appear as a new string to be translated
<mdke> you can't use the existing translation, because it's different
<mdke> not as clear as I'd hoped it would be :(
<mdke> anyway, any change to a translateable string results in a new translation to be done
<Rocket2DMn> you mean it just appears as a task for them?
<mdke> it appears as an untranslated string
<mdke> and if they don't translate it, it will appear in English
<Rocket2DMn> ok, but what if no translation is ever required.  For example, here is part of the patch:
<Rocket2DMn> <listitem><para><application>flashplugin-installer</application></para></listitem>
<Rocket2DMn> tags are kept, so that leaves just "flashplugin-installer" which doesn't require translation
<mdke> it may not require translation, but it is translatable
<Rocket2DMn> ok, but if that were to appear "in english" in their translated docs, there is no visible effect
<mdke> yes, that's true
<Rocket2DMn> ok, so in Rosetta when a change is made to the branch, the adjusted lines appear as "needs translating" or something?
<mdke> yes (although it's not the branch, it's the package that counts in our case)
<mdke> in Rosetta it will show up as "1 string not translated" or something like that
<mdke> you're right that it's not the end of the world, but the translators will have it on their task list and will do the work
<Rocket2DMn> ok, i can see how we may not want to bother them with new tasks apearing like that after string freeze, but effectively it doesn't matter if they see it or not
<mdke> you're quite right
<Rocket2DMn> i don't have any strong opinion on the patch being included or not, I'm just trying to understand how it works
<Rocket2DMn> I think I got the gist of it
<mdke> yeah, you have
<mdke> I think I was looking at it too rigidly, let's include the patch
<Rocket2DMn> cool, thanks for explaining
<mdke> I hadn't quite appreciated that the packagenames are the whole string, rather than just appearing in the middle of a string
<Rocket2DMn> yeah, in this case they are just ina list
<mdke> committed :)
<Rocket2DMn> k
<Rocket2DMn> As I predicted, more bugs appeared during the night :)
<Rocket2DMn> I think we sorta dropped the ball on Grub2 documentation
<mdke> yeah, these guys are good proof readers
<mdke> ok, gtg to the gym, back later
<Rocket2DMn> k, see ya
<slacker_nl> stupic question perhaps, but how do i open .omf files?
<mdke> slacker_nl: in a text editor
<slacker_nl> mdke: yeah.. and then there is a pointer to some .xml file
<mdke> slacker_nl: right.
<slacker_nl> so how can i read somehlpfile.omf and read the actual helpfile?
<mdke> slacker_nl: you just read the xml file
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: I read the gedit upstream bug you referred to - it looks pretty much like upstream is determined to have the menu entries inconsistent and unpleasant to look at... so I guess we should apply your patch to ubuntu-docs
<Rocket2DMn> mdke, it would be nice if the desktop team could confirm that they aren't going to override the change
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: yeah, worth asking them
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: will upload shortly - any bugs I've missed out committing that you can see?
<Rocket2DMn> mdke, ill have a look
<Rocket2DMn> mdke, i think that's all for now in the dev branch
<Rocket2DMn> there are some SRUs laying around still though
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: yeah :(
#ubuntu-doc 2010-10-04
<kinygos> hi...i recently solved a problem that was challenging (to me at least) and the chaps in #ubuntu-server suggested i write it up in https://help.ubuntu.com/community...is there a review process because i'm not a ubuntu expert at all, and i wouldn't want to say anything incorrect or misleading in a page?
#ubuntu-doc 2010-10-05
 * nhandler MemoServ's kinygos an answer
<Book_em_Dano> Does anyone know the correct command to upgrade a computer to the most recent development release?  xubuntu-docs states that the command is gksudo update-manager -c -d, but this is not correct.
<cjohnston> nixternal: ping
<nixternal> cjohnston: pong
<cjohnston> nixternal: don't know if you saw my email to the ML, I was wondering if there was any way I could get you to help me out with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityContributePages , more specifically the doc team
<nixternal> didn't see the email, i have been whicked busy with personal life. i am a bit busy right now, so maybe you can get someone like mdke, jjesse, or j1mc to help out. sorry about that
<cjohnston> If any of the other people who were pinged are around, any love? ;-)
<cjohnston> Thanks nixternal
<zkriesse> cjohnston: ping
<zkriesse> cjohnston: just walked in the door, saw your message...wanna pm or just chat here and explain a bit more about that?
<cjohnston> zkriesse: the instructions are pretty much all there.. read the top, look at others which can be used as examples
<zkriesse> cjohnston: YOu need help with editing/adding info to the page?
<cjohnston> for the doc team
<cjohnston> just need the information
<AbhiJit> hello
<AbhiJit> zkriesse, so how to become memmber of this team and how to write the core docs?
<zkriesse> You'd have to ask the leaders
<AbhiJit> zkriesse, who are they? :o
<AbhiJit> hello leaders!!! :)
<zkriesse> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam
<AbhiJit> oh ok
<AbhiJit> zkriesse, thanks!
<zkriesse> read that and all it's subpages
<AbhiJit> ok
<zkriesse> That'll explain it better then I can/have the time to do so
<AbhiJit> yah np
<jjesse> i think someone asked me a question, don't rmember if they did but can they email me it so i can respond?
<zkriesse> jjesse: cjohnston did..
<jjesse> cjohnston can you email me your question?  jjesse at gmail DOT com
<zkriesse> Well nixternal mentioned your nick in a response to cjohnston's question
<zkriesse> cjohnston> nixternal: don't know if you saw my email to the ML, I was wondering if there was any way I could get you to help me out with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityContributePages , more specifically the doc team
<zkriesse> <nixternal> didn't see the email, i have been whicked busy with personal life. i am a bit busy right now, so maybe you can get someone like mdke, jjesse, or j1mc to help out. sorry about that
<zkriesse> <cjohnston> If any of the other people who were pinged are around, any love? ;-)
<zkriesse> <cjohnston> Thanks nixternal
<zkriesse> jjesse: ^^
<AbhiJit> bye
<LjL> does anybody else think the https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Antivirus#Market Share Myth section might be a *little* loaded?
<kinygos> hi...i have a procedure for solving a specific problem to write up, but there is a page that is somewhat related, but doesn't provide enough information (at least for a noob)...in fact it wasn't really useful in my case....should i add a (lengthy) section to that page or create a new page...a key difference in the title will be my solution is especially useful when the server is remote with no access to external me
<zkriesse> kinygos: Ok what are you asking on how to do?
<kinygos> zkriesse: it took me a week to install RAID 1 on a remote server with ubuntu installed....there's a page on installing RAID on a running system, but it didn't give me anything i really needed to solve the problem
<zkriesse> ok'
<zkriesse> is this page on help.ubuntu.com/community?
<kinygos> zkriesse: yeah
<zkriesse> Ok so edit the page to include the neccessary info then!
<zkriesse> Just make sure it's properly formatted
<zkriesse> If you need help with that just lemme know or ask someone here
<kinygos> it will make a real mess of the page...the original author has a process of some kind there, but my process is different (more steps, and in different order cos the server was remote)
<zkriesse> Ok just edit it as you can get the info in there and then I'll walk ya through the proper format after it's edited
<kinygos> or should write a new page that is specific to a remote server scenario?
<kinygos> it's non trivial...installing RAID 1
<kinygos> (at least, the chaps in #ubuntu-server didn't think it was easy)
<zkriesse> Just do what you think would make it most easy on someone new to doing this/wishing to do so
<kinygos> ok, thanks zkriesse
<zkriesse> Yep
<kinygos> i'll write a new page, and if you think it needs to be merged, i'll do it
<kinygos> (so it's my time taken)
<zkriesse> After you're done let me know and we'll review it
<kinygos> thanks :)
<zkriesse> Yup
<zkriesse> If you need a page renamed or something let me know about that too because as I wiki admin I can do that
#ubuntu-doc 2010-10-06
<kinygos> zkriesse: i've just saved my first draft of the page
<kinygos> do I get informed of any edits to a page i've written automatically?
<jpds> /11/11
#ubuntu-doc 2010-10-07
<geekosopher> hello all, I had mailed a patch to kubuntu-doc>audio.xml a few days ago on the mailing list. Can someone spare a few minutes to review it? here is the link - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2010-September/015257.html
<geekosopher> oops that is the link to the mail... here is the link to attachment - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/attachments/20100929/9315504f/attachment.diff
<newz2000> Hi, I was wondering if there is an ETA for the 10.10 server guide to be published at (presumably) https://help.ubuntu.com/10.10/serverguide/C/index.html
#ubuntu-doc 2010-10-09
<ogennadi> Hi all. I'd like to make an edit to the official documentation (specifically to add a link for how to set install boot options). I'd like to confirm the link would be useful before filing a bug
<ogennadi> is that the right way to contribute official docs?
#ubuntu-doc 2010-10-10
<peppe84> Hi all. Any news for 10.10 official documentation?
#ubuntu-doc 2011-10-03
<dpm> hey mdke, how's it going? Are you around for a question on the ubuntu docs?
<Atamira> email him is best
<mdke> Atamira: quite right :)
<Atamira> :)
<DarkwingDuck> mdke: With the docs... do the PO files need to be renamed to the abreveation of the language or, is the about-de.po just fine?
#ubuntu-doc 2011-10-04
<mdke> DarkwingDuck: I always rename them for simplicity but it probably isn't necessary
<jbicha> is there something wrong with wiki permissions? bug 867893 isn't the first I've seen this
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 867893 in ubuntu-docs "A minor detail in wiki, but i cannot edit :(" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/867893
#ubuntu-doc 2011-10-05
<head_victim> jbicha: bug 867893 is a bit odd, I just went to the page and it's allowing edits fine
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 867893 in ubuntu-docs "A minor detail in wiki, but i cannot edit :(" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/867893
<jbicha> right, it works for me, I didn't know if there was a different access level or something
<head_victim> Worth making it affect ubuntu-website and having someone from there look into it?
<manjul> Greetings everybody... This is my first time venturing on here... I am trying to make some humble efforts towards transitioning the Ubuntu Community Documentation from the old theme to the new theme
<manjul> I have obtained the ubuntu-docs oneiric branch from Launchpad, and am first trying to generate the static html...
<manjul> May I implore somebody to guide me as I go through it? I realize this would never get done by me unless I just sit down and do it whilst I do my other stuff
<manjul> To start with - I have no idea how to generate the static html (I was under the impression that one needs to make the package to do so, but the legendary mdke clarified that this was not the case)
<manjul> Moreover, after using autotools to create the Makefile, I get an error in Make
<Atamira> hi manjul
<Atamira> you would be better off emailing the mailing list for answer to your queries
<Atamira> or you might be incredibly lucky to actually get someone who can answer your question whos alert in here
<manjul> Heh thanks... I just thought it would be much faster if I did it in realtime... I realize everybody, especially mdke, is busy with the release of Oneiric
<Atamira> it generally is faster heh. just gotta hope someone is actually present on here for that tho
<manjul> Yeah... I guess I'll just hang around myself as well :) Thanks for responding though!
<manjul> I've been trying to balance this with my research work, and the only solution is to try to do them side-by-side
<manjul> Be back later :)
<manjul> Aha... I see that the legendary mdke is himself here
<mdke> jbicha: I assume 11.10.4 was never uploaded from what Launchpad is telling me, correct?
<jbicha> mdke: you uploaded it yesterday though, right?
<jbicha> oh, never mind, that was 11.10.3
<jbicha> no, I never uploaded 11.10.4 nor was it sponsored in
<jbicha> and 11.10.3 was 2 weeks ago
<mdke> fine, it's going in today hopefully
<mdke> jbicha: if you have any bugs or sponsor requests open to do it, please close em
<jbicha> I was only looking for a sponsor the day I tagged it but then you said you would upload it
<jbicha> there's one major screenshot that we need to do something with though
<mdke> can you do it now?
<jbicha> the first one on help:ubuntu-help/unity-introduction
<jbicha> if I do it, I'd probably just replace it with a generic desktop without labels
<jbicha> if j1mc or someone wants labels then they can do it (?)
 * mdke nods
<mdke> I don't really mind.
<mdke> disadvantage of the labels is that they are very unlikely to get translated
<mdke> we haven't had any screenshot translations yet
<mdke> damn
<mdke> the package won't build
<jbicha> the translators may not know how to do the screenshots
<mdke> we have too many help files :/
<mdke> jbicha: what do you think re the screenshot? If you can do one now, I'm happy to have no labels
<mdke> otherwise i'll upload
<jbicha> mdke: just pushed an updated screenshot
<mdke> legend, thanks
<mdke> jbicha: uploading. Thanks again for your great work this cycle
#ubuntu-doc 2011-10-06
<manzdagratiano> Greetings! Are any of ye exalted Ladies and Gentlemen free for me to bug regarding building documentation?
<manzdagratiano> I am taking little steps here - I want to generate the static html from the Oneiric doc sources
<manzdagratiano> Herr mdke told me, and I so realized, that pulling a make was not the way to go - that's for the package.
<manzdagratiano> May I ask how I should generate the *page files first? I saw the new guidelines that Jeremy had posted to the mailing list (I assume I go into ubuntu-help/es?)
<manzdagratiano> Oops - `es' is Spanish :D
<manzdagratiano> Wait... The subdirectory 'C' already has *page files...
<manzdagratiano> I see that something else needs to be done before I can hit "make" in the subdirectory "html", since the Makefile is looking for files that are not yet present there
<manzdagratiano> Anyone?
<manzdagratiano> Gotta run... I will be a bugger again later on... This needs to be resolved
#ubuntu-doc 2011-10-07
<Pici> I'm having some wiki weirdness.
<Pici> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelopmentCodeNames claims it doesn't exist yet, but the page revisions don't say it was deleted or anything.. and if I try to revert it to a prior version, I get a moinmoin python error.
<Pici> <class 'MoinMoin.PageEditor.CouldNotLock'>: Page could not get locked. Missing 'current' file?
<jbicha> Pici: open a request ticket by sending an email to rt@ubuntu.com
<Pici> jbicha: righto
<bkerensa> mdke: Can you ping me when you are around?
<mdke> bkerensa: hey
<bkerensa> mdke: Can I pm?
<mdke> sure
<jbicha> mdke: pitti had to manually inject the ubuntu-docs translations into today's langpack update, bug 869815
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 869815 in langpack-o-matic "does not properly install mallard help files" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/869815
<mdke> jbicha: interesting, thanks for letting me know
<jbicha> but his workaround worked, we got pretty translations for several languages :)
<mdke> as we get more and more translations, we are going to have to figure out a way around a weird build bug
<mdke> basically if we have too many languages, it crashes with a complaint that it can't call so many install commands at the same time...
<jbicha> is it just old translations conflicting with the new build?
<mdke> too many help files :)
<jbicha> shaunm: do you know anything about that ^
<mdke> I worked around it by leaving out the translations which only have a very few strings translated
<jbicha> I think we're building about the same way as gnome-user-docs does
<mdke> I had the same problem in natty as well
<mdke> yes, we are
<mdke> but shaunm may not have come across it if he doesn't build packages for distributions
<jbicha> mdke: do you ever use meld?
<mdke> not heard of it
<shaunm> yeah, not something I've dealt with
<jbicha> that's what I used to merge in gnome-user-docs updates this cycle, it's a visual diff tool
<jbicha> http://meld.sourceforge.net/
<shaunm> is it trying to parallelize every file at once and can't run any more commands? that sounds crazy
<mdke> something like that I think
<jbicha> well that page is a bit outdated but meld is cool
<mdke> anything that helps us keep on track with gnome-user-docs, that isn't an easy merge
<mdke> shaunm: I'll get you a build log once I get to an Ubuntu system sometime
<jbicha> mdke: did you also try in a PPA? just in case it's something specific to your computer
<mdke> jbicha: no, I haven't. Actually I've never tried using a ppa
<jbicha> mdke: ah, it's basically the same as pushing to the main archives, just create a PPA, set the changelog to ~ppa1 or something and dput ppa:mdke/ppaname
<mdke> jbicha: perhaps we should use em more
<mdke> jbicha: i'll give it a shot sometime
<jbicha> I got my sbuild setup which is similar to a PPA for testing, but if you want wider distribution PPAs are good
#ubuntu-doc 2011-10-08
<frafu> Hi,
<frafu> I am writing the documentation of the onscreen keyboard Onboard in mallard format (Onboard is the default onscreen keyboard in Ubuntu). The intention was to ship it with the Onboard source in the help/C subfolder, but I am unsure whether this is the best way to go, especially regarding the translation of the documentation. Could anybody please tell me what is the best way to proceed with the documentation?
#ubuntu-doc 2012-10-01
<jbicha> dpm: hey, so translators are filing typo bugs for ubuntu-docs, how should we handle that?
<dpm> jbicha, are they glaring typos?
<dpm> actually,
<jbicha> bug 1058565 probably is
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1058565 in ubuntu-docs "Incorrect strings about gwibber & music lenses in ubuntu-help quantal" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1058565
<jbicha> I didn't find/ask anyone to review the new pages I wrote so it's probably expected :(
<dpm> hm, it's a bit of a tough one for docs. In order not to remove translations, the best thing would be to 1) download all translations (PO files) 2) do string replacement locally on the .POT file and on all .PO files for the wrong original string 3) Re-upload translations + .pot file
<jbicha> that was a huge headache last time I had to do that
<jbicha> don't we want to invalidate translations in this case since if they translated correctly, the translations will be wrong?
<jbicha> dpm: I think that bug is worth fixing (those are brand new pages for quantal) and I don't think string replacement would help
<dpm> jbicha, sorry for the delay, I was on the phone. Ah, if the translations are wrong too, then yeah, simply update the POT file
<dpm> Yeah, reading the bug that makes sense. So if you could just update the original strings as you'd do with any bug where you fix typos, and then update the .pot file and upload it manually, that should take care of it. If you could, it'd be great to send an e-mail to translators with a heads up.
<jbicha> I can just use the automatic pot upload from our bzr branch, right? no need to upload manually if that works?
<dpm> jbicha, you'll still need to update the POT on the Ubuntu source package. Translations are synced between upstream-downstream, but you need to have the identical set of strings on both
<dpm> but once you've updated the .pot on the branch, it is just a matter of fetching it and sticking it into the upload field for the source package in LP
#ubuntu-doc 2012-10-03
<jbicha> dpm: what would the impact to translations be for bug 1060601 ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1060601 in rhythmbox "[FFe]: Update rhythmbox from 2.97 to 2.98" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1060601
<dpm> hi jbicha. I really can't tell without knowing whether there have been UI changes. A way to check that out would be to compare the msgid's in the POT file on 2.97 vs. 2.98. Also, I'm not sure how much time people who translate upstream will have had to finish it. It still doesn't follow GNOME's release schedule, does it?
<jbicha> no, it's not really on GNOME's schedule
#ubuntu-doc 2013-10-01
<sasa84> hello
<pleia2> hi there
<sasa84> pleia2, do you might know the link, where i could find missing/new screenshots for ubuntu-docs 13.10?
<pleia2> sasa84: could you be a bit more specific?
<pleia2> sasa84: please keep the discussion in channel :)
<sasa84> i want to make localized screenshots for ubuntu-docs
<pleia2> oh, I see
<pleia2> that would be a question for the translations folks I think, I'm not sure how it's done
<pleia2> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators is the translators mailing list
<pleia2> I suggest signing up and sending an email asking about how that is handled
<sasa84> ok, tnx pleia2 :)
<CrazyLemon> hey guys
<CrazyLemon> i was wondering why does ubuntu raring docs have quantals JPG in index.html ?
<CrazyLemon> same goes for saucy
<CrazyLemon> there are also missing 2 PNG files = view-fullscreen-16.png and universal-access-menu.png  - talking about saucy
<pleia2> CrazyLemon: I suggest you mail the ubuntu-doc mailing list to ask, there is a script to grab screenshots that was fixed for this cycle but I don't know exactly when/if they got to adding the new shots
<pleia2> can sign up here: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-doc
<pleia2> raring simply didn't get updated in time, but saucy should
<pleia2> (and raring is end of life in a couple months, so it won't be fixed)
<CrazyLemon> will do pleia2
<CrazyLemon> ty
#ubuntu-doc 2013-10-05
<bkerensa> pleia2: looks like were ready to push doc
<bkerensa> getting the MP in now and then I will get my sponsor lined up to upload hopefully no later then a few hours from now
#ubuntu-doc 2014-09-30
<ahoneybun> hey pleia2
<pleia2> o/
<ahoneybun> pleia2, I have working mobile data on ubuntu touch now!
<ahoneybun> \o
<pleia2> nice :)
<ahoneybun> yea finally
<ahoneybun> also I almost have a real app ready
 * ahoneybun has not seen mhall119 in awhile
<pleia2> \o/
<pleia2> I'm off to dinner, catch you later
#ubuntu-doc 2014-10-03
<ahoneybun> pleia2, need help with the UWNL?
<pleia2> ahoneybun: always :) in #ubuntu-news
<ahoneybun> ok cool
#ubuntu-doc 2014-10-04
<ahoneybun> pleia2, http://sweetfoss.wordpress.com/2014/10/04/fossetcon-2014/
<ahoneybun> pleia2, http://www.unixstickers.com/stickers/linux_os_distribution_stickers/xubuntu-stickers-bundle
#ubuntu-doc 2014-10-05
<pleia2> ahoneybun: yep, I worked with them to get xubuntu stickers :)
<pleia2> a percentage of their sales goes to giving the xubuntu team free stickers, which we're using for some projects
 * ahoneybun adds link to ubuntu newsletter to his app
#ubuntu-doc 2015-09-29
 * dsmythies there is no #ubuntu-doc page on the irc logs page for today. I am wondering if making this entry will force the page on the next hour boundary.
 * dsmythies ref: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/09/29/
 * pleia2 confirms there was no discussion here on the 28th
<dsmythies> pleia2: Thanks. I'm just experimenting really. I've seen this before, a few times. I suspect, but am not sure, the web pages are not made if there has been no activity for N days. I do not know what N is.
<pleia2> heh, yeah, looks like no one has said anything since the 18th
<dsmythies> So maybe N is 10.
<dsmythies> I just wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything from Ted Cox.
<pleia2> looks like he was focused over in #ubuntu-server
<dsmythies> Yes, I saw. Was just checking here, just in case...
 * pleia2 nods
#ubuntu-doc 2016-10-06
<matti> Hello there folks!
<matti> Who would be the best person to talk to about Ubuntu Wiki?
<pmatulis> matti, the best is to just ask the question
<matti> pmatulis: Ah, sorry!
<matti> I have lost an ability to edit my personal page.
<matti> For some reason unknown. It used to work fine, but for quite some time I can't do it.
<matti> I am not entirely sure why.
<matti> (sorry for late reply, I got busy at work)
<pmatulis> matti, you need to be a member of a special group
<pmatulis> this should be documented somewhere within the "home" link (see topic)
<pmatulis> 'should be'
<zaki> matti: which page?
<matti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KrzysztofWilczynski
<matti> It used to work fine :)
<matti> Did I upset something?
<zaki> when did it stop working?
<zaki> matti: ^
<zaki> matti: at first you have to be member of this https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-wiki-editors  team to edit your wiki.
<matti> Sorry. I got busy.
#ubuntu-doc 2016-10-07
<matti> To add to my answer - I am a member of this group.
<matti> :)
<z0mfg> Hi, I've written a tutorial for fixing a luks system when boot partition got destroyed, what is the best place to publish it? Ubuntu Forums (there's a tutorials section), Launchpad, make a wiki page?
<matti> Hi zaki :)
<matti> zaki: Sorry for the delay yesterday.
<matti> zaki: I am a member of this group: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-wiki-editors
<zaki> matti: you can try log out and log in again in to your ubuntu one account  , while log in chek the team membership at ubuntu wiki editor.
<zaki> matti: check this http://imgur.com/a/eKbhh
<zaki> i hope this will work
<zaki> matti: sorry for the late reply, i was having my dinner.
#ubuntu-doc 2017-10-04
<dpsi> hey I want to update https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VMware/Tools but I cant edit the page
#ubuntu-doc 2017-10-08
<edik> hey
<edik> About one month ago, I wrote a mail to the mailing list proposing changes of the documentation of Ubuntu's sudo concept.
<edik> I would like to know if somebody have read it (it's a bit large) and how you think about it :)
<edik> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2017-September/020526.html
