#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-02-27
<brousch> you can do a one-off command, so i guess you could use that to pull in a settings file
<brousch> but there's an actual command to set environment variables
<brousch> heroku config:add SECRET_KEY=xxx
<rick_h_> brousch: gotcha
<brousch> also, your program starts when the upload is done, so i don't think you could fetch from S3 before that
<greg-g> jono commented on my U1 on Debian post :)
<greg-g> heh
<snap-l> greg-g: When the identi.ca group hits 1,000 blocked users, I think it'll be high-time to talk about disbanding it.
<snap-l> Though the private checkbox is interesting
<snap-l> not sure it's entirely appropriate, though
<snap-l> New members must be approved by admin and all posts are forced to be private.
<greg-g> I wish there was a "public posts, but new members moderated" option
<snap-l> Yes^1000
<snap-l> None of my other groups get spammed like the Ubuntu Group
<maxsilver> The fetching thing might not work so well on Heroku -- since your not supposed to write anything to disk, there wouldn't be a good place to store a downloaded file
<rick_h_> greg-g: linky?
<greg-g> rick_h_: http://blog.grossmeier.net/2012/02/26/ubuntuone-debian/
<rick_h_> greg-g: got it, thanks
<greg-g> np
<rick_h_> kind of sad, I'd think Jono a bit beyond the normal "you have a problem, change your toolset" response
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> also, why install a behemoth and pair it down to what I want when I can install what I want plus one part of the behemoth? (I need a better analogy, but you get my drift)
<greg-g> pair? pare? pare I think
<rick_h_> yea, understand, why I went arch for that while
<snap-l> Well, and for the longest time if you removed ubuntu-desktop, you got a gibbering mound of shit
<greg-g> snap-l: lol
<snap-l> I get a little tired of the Ubuntu only stuff. Yes, I know support is tough, but it would be nice if there were some way to get Debian at the very least to run this stuff.
<rick_h_> well I do think it's the communities to at least participate
<snap-l> Oh, no doubt
<snap-l> I'm not expecting Ubuntu to do all of the work
<rick_h_> so I can't say I'm 100% surprised, but I'd fully expect the U1 team to help if someone were to start filing some bugs, patches, etc to help make the installation work better
<snap-l> But it does seem like there's an artificially-implemented divide between the two
<snap-l> rick_h_: Couldn't agree more.
<rick_h_> well, just not any effort to think ahead I think
<rick_h_> I mean, it's the bare min to get working in ubuntu
<snap-l> Yeah, but it feels like everything in Ubuntu gets a 6 month slap-dash to get it running
<snap-l> I'd like a little more percolation, personally
<snap-l> U1 was rushed. Unity was rushed.
<snap-l> I hope Pangolin gets a little more "no, you're not reay yet".
<snap-l> s/reay/ready/
<rick_h_> well there's nothing really new in this release
<rick_h_> cleaned up U1, cleaned up unity, more testing infrastructure, etc
<snap-l> Save for the DNS mucking. ;)
<rick_h_> the reviews are going to be boring
<rick_h_> well, honestly that's not huge when I actually looked at it
<rick_h_> resolve.conf == 4 files or whatever
<rick_h_> in resolve.d
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, I implement about half of it now
<snap-l> and frankly, I think resolv.conf needs some love.
<snap-l> Every time I connect to a network, resolv.conf gets thwacked.
<rick_h_> yea, that's the new behavior according to that post
<jrwren> am i just in time for meeting? or late? or did we move to weekdays?
<rick_h_> no idea any more
<rick_h_> I just idle and hope to hit it
<rick_h_> snap-l: ping?
<jrwren> 2 devs working full time can do amazing things in 6mo.
<rick_h_> this is true, what's the new cool thing now?
 * rick_h_ wishes he could take 6mo to just hack on bookie full time
<jrwren> i wish i could take 6mo and give a full month to about 6 projects?
<jrwren> and get paid nicely to do so :)
<rick_h_> heh very true
<jrwren> wikipedia pages aren't loading becuase of wikimedia?
<brousch> crap there was a meeting?
<rick_h_> brousch: well we didn't have one if there was supposed to be one
<snap-l> Meeting is next week.
<snap-l> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-michigan/349/detail/
<brousch> the night after the bug jam?
<brousch> the night of the day after the bug jam?
<snap-l> Yes
<jjesse> brousch, i don't know how the pictures of the train setup (posted on google+) turned out but it makes the bretton village one look like small fry
<jjesse> its pretty amazing setup
<brousch> jjesse: yeah, we were there least fall
<brousch> spent at least 2.5 hours around that setup
<jjesse> we only spent about 45 minutes but was short on time
<brousch> my son was ready to move into that room
<jjesse> yeah i bet so was caleb
<jjesse> its pretty amazing
<jjesse> i love how the trains will stop and wait at the signals for the other trains
<brousch> george was afraid of the tree getting chopped down and the explosion
<jjesse> i figured caleb wouldn't appreciate that so i didn't show him
<brousch> that is an awesome place
<brousch> we spent all day there
<jjesse> we did too
<brousch> the field museum is even bigger
<jjesse> i was amazed at how less crowded than shedd's aquarium it was
<brousch> need 3 days for just that
<jjesse> field museum is newt saturday
<jjesse> only have a day for each
<jjesse> the city pass should give you multiple days :)
<brousch> make sure to hit the dinos and the totem poles before your feet fall off
<jjesse> will do
<brousch> jjesse: where are you staying?
<jjesse> river north area
<jjesse> i'm hear for 2 weeks for work
<jjesse> so family came w/
<brousch> we stayed at Hotel 71, on the 30-somethingth floor. it had awesome views up the river at night
<jjesse> nice
<jjesse> we are at a residence inn (marriott of course ) on the 19th floor
<brousch> george would just sit in the window looking at the lights
<jjesse> there is a construction site right out the window that caleb has been watching
<brousch> hah, a crane no doubt
<jjesse> they poured a floor of concrete earlier this week
<jjesse> yeah a crane
<jjesse> brousch,  you are Facebook friends so yiou can see all the picturesthere
<brousch> our hotel was in the model train city. that was cool
<jjesse> thats cool
<brousch> a crane outside the window might have been more entertaining than the lights
<jjesse> that and watching them put concrete down on an entire floor
<jjesse> so concret mixers and a conceret pumper
<brousch> these were across the river from our hotel https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150547672081750&set=a.10150547670941750.373788.635511749&type=3&theater
<jjesse> so we are just down the road
<jjesse> from that hotel
<jjesse> residence
<jjesse> sorry that's a condo
<brousch> oh yeah, when you come back home make sure you watch Batman: The Dark Knight
<brousch> it's amazing all the places you recognize
<jjesse> they filmed it here?
<jjesse> didn't realize that
<brousch> yeah
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> man, it's kind of a bit intimdating replying to the all company tech mailing lists. "did I dot all my i's, cross all my t's, will someone be able to crush me."
<brousch> like a bug!
<brousch> I moved essentially all of our data and programs to a new server yesterday. So far nothing is broken.
<brousch> Waiting for the hammer to drop
<snap-l> brousch: Friday afternoon. :)
<snap-l> That's when all server hammers drop
<brousch> it shouldn't take all week
<rick_h_> you never know when it'll go boom!
<brousch> i'm not so much waiting for the server to go boom as i am for one of my users to report that i forgot to move something
<rick_h_> heh, "to the backups!
<rick_h_> woot, fish tank is starting to stay clear, time to buy more plants!
<brousch> i must be missing something about reddit. the front page is full of juvenile crap. is there a secret area with the good stuff?
<rick_h_> I created an account and just filter to only the ones I care about
<rick_h_> and even then it can be juvenile
<brousch> ah, they are called subreddits
<brousch> ok, i think i figured it out
<snap-l> Yeah, you need a reddit account
<snap-l> otherwise it's titties and beer jokes.
<brousch> so i need 2 reddit accounts. one for when i'm sober and one for when i'm drunk
<snap-l> So let it be written, so let it be done.
<rick_h_> waldo323_: ping
<waldo323_> rick_h_, pong
<rick_h_> hey, PC question for you. I submitted a talk and got a reply told to "edit the description to fit into the program book"
<rick_h_> are there rules for that you know about?
<rick_h_> and if I wanted to try to narrow down schedule time can you hook me up?
<rick_h_> :) using my connections
<snap-l> Funny that. I sent Krunal a note about doing a podcast presentation again, but haven't heard back from him
<rick_h_> well I filled out the online form and heard from him on the 25th
<waldo323_> huh, not sure what he wanted changed for the program book I can find out though
<rick_h_> waldo323_: he mentions:  (toss
<rick_h_> it into 3rd person, add more detail, etc.)
<rick_h_> but I can't find any docs on length/size, does it need a bio, etc
<rick_h_> I guess are there other examples somewhere I can peek at and compare against?
<snap-l> rick_h_: Assume whatever you type will be in the probram book
<waldo323_> and if you have time requirements shoot them to me and also programming at penguicon.org
<rick_h_> k thanks.
<rick_h_> Ok, well I'll wing it then, I just wondered if I was blind/missing the program requirements somewhere
<snap-l> I have a feeling they're sitting in the program book author's head. :)
<waldo323_> i'll find out and if there are i'll try to make sure they get more visibility
<snap-l> Wow, the wiki is severely out of date.
<snap-l> http://www.penguicon.info/doku.php/programbook
<waldo323_> parts of it
<waldo323_> oh
<waldo323_> i thought you ment in general
<snap-l> Nah, it's a wiki
<snap-l> certain parts will get more love than others
<snap-l> I can cope with that. :)
<rick_h_> ah ok, that's cool for an example of length of things
<rick_h_> thanks snap-l
<waldo323_> i will see if matt will update it or tell me what he want there so i can update it
<rick_h_> waldo323_: ok thanks. SOrry for me being lazy and punting to you :)
<waldo323_> :)
<waldo323_> quite alright
<snap-l> I think wiki actually means "dated information" in it's mother tongue.
<waldo323_> and thanks snap-l for the info :)
<waldo323_> heh
<waldo323_> lots of it has actually been updated recently....i get email updates about them
<snap-l> Wow, just had a black-out
<snap-l> home internet went poof for a bit
<waldo323_> hands snap-l some water
<rick_h_> ouch
<snap-l> It's been known to do that on occasion
<snap-l> Usually 30-60 seconds until the modem reconnects
<waldo323_> rick_h_, req for info sent
<rick_h_> waldo323_: thank, appreciate it
<rick_h_> where's krondor, I submitted my talk, now he needs to do his :P
<waldo323_> you're welcome
<jrwren> brousch: what city were you and jjesse talking about?
<brousch> jrwren: chicago
<jrwren> but he was comparing osmething to shed.
<jrwren> where did he go that wasn't shed?
<brousch> museum of science and industry
<jrwren> oh, now I see it. field museum?
<brousch> i think he's hitting field museum today or tomorrow
<jrwren> ah, well I need to go to those places :)
<brousch> you've not been to any?
<jrwren> only shed.
<jrwren> and some art museum, i dont' recall which
<brousch> they are awesome, huge
<rick_h_> crap, I can't lose this much time right now http://vimbits.com/
<rick_h_> krondor: submitted my talk, where's yours :P
<jcastro> rick_h_: are you entering bookie in the charm contest?
<rick_h_> jcastro: might try, but I'm working on getting our 0.4 release out first.
<rick_h_> but honestly, I won't meet many of the 'points' conditions like using other charms/etc
<rick_h_> so not high up there
<rick_h_> however I htink at the sprint we found the new makefile magic does make it possible for the first time
<rick_h_> so closer
<jcastro> well, even if it's not too sexy, just having it in there would be <3
<rick_h_> yea, I might give it a go at pycon if I get some time during sprints there
<rick_h_> and we should have 0.4 out before or during that time
<jcastro> is there other codereview things out there?
<jcastro> or is reviewboard still the ninja one?
<rick_h_> there's reviewboard and reitveild (app engine)
<rick_h_> so reviewboard would be the hotness to get going
<rick_h_> django based and all
<rick_h_> they just had a release hit today as well
<jcastro> yeah I put it on my blog
<rick_h_> there's also gerrit
<jcastro> I am thinking of things you would want to set up if you had your own company
<rick_h_> but that's so so, you either love/hate it. Java based I think and used in android
<jcastro> I don't care what it takes to run them, I don't need to pay for the instances. :)
<rick_h_> yea, jenkins, reviewboard, gitolite
<rick_h_> jcastro: redmine, trac maybe
<jcastro> got those 2 already
<rick_h_> big ones I can think off of the top of my head
<rick_h_> maybe some sort of project mgt, but can't think of one I've used I'd want to use again :)
<rick_h_> too much stuff is cloud, trello, google docs, etc
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> trello is great\
<rick_h_> yea, working well for bookie todo so far
<rick_h_> not really turning useful for my own todo, but meh
<greg-g> jcastro: civicrm, openERP
<greg-g> jcastro: Launchpad (lolz)
<jcastro> launchpad is in progress
<greg-g> no kidding?
<greg-g> wow
<greg-g> from my (limited) understanding, that is a beast to set up
<jcastro> that's why they are charming it
<greg-g> fair
<greg-g> do the hard work once
<jcastro> indeed
<snap-l> Steps to install launchpad:
<jcastro> parts of it are in there already
<snap-l> 1) Format target machine
<snap-l> 2) DO stuff
<snap-l> 3) Profit
<jcastro> civicrm looks nice
<jcastro> (bugs files for both of those)
<snap-l> That was one thing that cracked me up when people complained that SF.net wasn't OSS.
<snap-l> It wasn't like most of that code made any sense outside of the sf.net datacenter.
<jcastro> yeah, making that stuff generalized is hard
<snap-l> That's also the nice part about Allura: it's designed with the outside world in mind
<snap-l> (Allura being sf.net 2.0)
<krondor> redmine can do project mgmt to an extent... not that I am fan of any project mgmt stuff really
<snap-l> Most of what I've seen for project management is either way too heavy, or way too cumbersome to move quickly.
<snap-l> At which point keeping things updated becomes an event in itself.
<krondor> when I heard project mgmt I think of gantt charts and people being called resources (slightly offensive) and then my eyes glaze over.
<krondor> I think corporate IT has conditioned me into hating it though (negative feedback loop with tasks/nagging pms/etc...).
<snap-l> My favorite is "What percent would you say we're done?"
<snap-l> "I dunno, what percentace is NFC?"
 * snap-l aliases NFC to NaN
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> And then, because the report is more about pleasing the teacher than actually showing work, all of the milestones and percentages are completely off
<snap-l> which then gets set in stone, and becomes the rod for which to spank the unruly developers.
<krondor> snap-l: ++
<snap-l> My other favorite is when the process becomes mroe important than actually doing the work, but that's another rant for another time.
<krondor> greg-g:  ooh civicrm looks neat. I have a nonprofit that might realy like this.
<greg-g> krondor: cool!
<greg-g> krondor: we use it at CC
<snap-l> Hmmm... wonder if MUG could use this.
<greg-g> uh oh, now all the MUG emails will have &utmsource= junk in them for click tracking :)
<snap-l> Nah, those are separate
<snap-l> but we've been looking for a self-service way to get folks to pay dues.
<snap-l> currently we send out paper invoices
<snap-l> http://www.elsevier.com/wps/find/intro.cws_home/newmessagerwa <- greg-g
<greg-g> snap-l: yeah, haven't finished reading it, but, they finally figured it won't look good for them to keep pushing it due to the HUGE amount of outcry, which was awesome
<snap-l> Wonder if this means they'll also drop SOPA support as well
<snap-l> While we continue to oppose government mandates in this area, Elsevier is withdrawing support for the Research Work Act itself. We hope this will address some of the concerns expressed and help create a less heated and more productive climate for our ongoing discussions with research funders.
<snap-l> That's doublespeak
<waldo323_> greg-g, do you use the CiviEvent portion of civicrm at CC?
<greg-g> waldo323_: don't *think* so. I actually don't interact with CiviCRM at all, it is mostly for "development" work (the OTHER kind of development :) )
<greg-g> snap-l: you got it! :)
<waldo323_> :) ok    i have been looking for conference scheduling software for a while so civievent caught my eye
<greg-g> ahh, gotcha
<greg-g> yeah, sorry, can't help ya :)
<brousch> waldo323_: pycon uses some opensource thing
<brousch> looks like pinax maybe
<waldo323_> open source would be my first choice :)
<brousch> ok, looks like they cobble something together from pinax and django apps
<brousch> https://github.com/eldarion/pycon
<waldo323_> perhaps their code is avail....you beat me to it
<rick_h_> yea, it's custom python code
<rick_h_> they love to say how 'patches welcome'
<brousch> i think pyohio uses that too
<rick_h_> yea, they started using it last year
<snap-l> greg-g: I still hope the researchers route around Elseveir. We've figured out they're useless anyway, so best to sweep away the cruft.
<greg-g> snap-l: word, I think this time around the noise level got too high for some (not a critical mass yet, though) to not go back
<rick_h_> lmorchard: ping
<lmorchard> rick_h_: Heya
<rick_h_> lmorchard: hey, speaking of bookmark stuff. Blazeix and _stink_ started hacking on a firefox plugin for bookie
<rick_h_> do you know if anyone has super secret debugging tips/tools for getting firebug into content scripts/etc?
<rick_h_> I know Blazeix was breaking down adn trying to do some sort of http proxy to check the requests going out and such before he could only get console.log access to the lower level content bits of the sdk based add-ons
<lmorchard> Hmmâ¦ its been awhile since I played with the new addon stuff, I thought firebug could see into it
<rick_h_> it seemed like it would only get the main.js or something and not the other content in the extension
<lmorchard> best bet might be something like hanging out on irc://irc.mozilla.org#addons and asking
<rick_h_> ok, cool. thanks
<lmorchard> I seem to remember hearing the new built-in web dev tools can help
<lmorchard> There's also a test runner that fires up Firefox with the addon and sends console output to the shell where you launch the browser
<lmorchard> I think my knowledge is like 8 months old though :/
<rick_h_> yea, just got to be where really a full dev toolset (debugger/etc) would be most awesome
<rick_h_> yea, that's the fun. There's a few different ways and links out there for old things, new things, deprecated things
<rick_h_> I was curious if there was a great 'latest/greatest' to try to stick with. We're trying hard to get the chrome-like dev experience going in FF for porting the extension
<rick_h_> much much closer, but still some pain points
<rick_h_> but cool, I'll try to get with Blazeix at CHC wed and find someone to bug in irc :)
<lmorchard> Actually, maybe the #jetpack channel is better on irc.mozilla.org
<rick_h_> ok
<lmorchard> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Jetpack is the codename of the project at any rate
<rick_h_> yea, but some stuff I found on that said it was deprecated so we've tried to stick inside the add-on sdk part of the wiki/docs
<rick_h_> I know it was more a 'rename' than deprecated, but cool
<lmorchard> Looks like latest-and-greatest is https://github.com/mozilla/addon-sdk
<lmorchard> I should really circle back and play with it some more
<rick_h_> yea, the code we're using pulls the latest tarball to populate the extension dev
<rick_h_> https://github.com/mitechie/bookie-firefox
<rick_h_> good reason to come out to CHC :)
<lmorchard> I remember it being not too painful when I built my RSS reader addon, which holy crap was over a year ago http://decafbad.com/blog/2011/01/27/introducing-fireriver-a-river-of-news-for-firefox-4
<lmorchard> me? get out of the house? *gasp*
<rick_h_> yea, I'm part proxy. I've not tried to debug the issues they've hit yet so don't know the exact details for the stuff they were hitting
<rick_h_> lmorchard: yea, you made it out once. We've got the secret coder room for the rest of the year now
<rick_h_> long 3hr edition is this wed
<lmorchard> Maybe I'll put on the space suit and get out there
<rick_h_> I hear the plague isn't sched to hit until the fall :P
<snap-l> lmorchard: That's OK. If we all cough on you at the same time, it'll keep you innoculated throughout the year.
<snap-l> I'll also bring some flu-covered blankets.
<lmorchard> My last big immune assault was back in like September for the mozilla all-hands. I got exposed to international diseases there!
<snap-l> Well, we can keep you current on all of the local ones.
<snap-l> rick_h_: Seen todays daily dose of stupid people are stupid? http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/q80cx/unit_testing_is_for_lazy_people/
<snap-l> Not the article itself, but the first set of comments re: static typing
<snap-l> We got our SWAG box
<rick_h_> woot
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-02-28
<rick_h_> morning
<snap-l> blargh
<snap-l> I mean, morning
<snap-l> Apparently tomorrow is BOGO at Caribou
<snap-l> (buy one, get one)
<snap-l> (with coupon)
<rick_h_> ooh, they're going to regret that :P
<snap-l> Heh
<snap-l> http://magnatune.com/artists/albums/ilic-sparkling/ <- Now listening
<rick_h_> the internet is a sad place: http://i.imgur.com/y9Nai.jpg
<Scott_firebeta> 4chan, not even once
<snap-l> I've seen some rather bright people do some really dumb things.
<brousch> snap-l: i need recommendations for music with a lot of drumming suitable for a 4 year old.
<snap-l> Like one guy at $JOB that downloaded Win XP off of a torrent site, and used it
<rick_h_> badass git trick of the day: http://vimbits.com/bits/173
<snap-l> brousch: What kind of drumming?
<snap-l> Jazz? More Tribal?
<brousch> like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vM8E0-ozlGA or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPkfLALLXKY
<brousch> or the imperial march from star wars
<brousch> i lack the experience and vocabulary to describe it
<snap-l> March-like
<brousch> sounds right
<snap-l> Well, what I was going to suggest was Kodo (Japanese drumming)
<snap-l> or Blue Man Group: Audio
<brousch> he does not like my death metal music
<snap-l> brousch: Yeah, it's an acquired taste.
<brousch> blue man group might be good
<brousch> we saw them in concert in chicago back in 2001 i think
<snap-l> Yeah, Audio is not quite like their show
<snap-l> but it's quite percussive
<brousch> used from $0.01
<brousch> hard to pass up
<snap-l> Mahler's 6th might also be good for him to improvise to
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IT22BZ5gGbU
<brousch> i hope some variety will help keep my wife's sanity
<brousch> george gets stuck on one song for a month and wants only to listen to it. a month of variations on the 20th century fox fanfare gets annoying
<snap-l> Heh
<brousch> he plays it a dozen times on his computer, then takes it downstairs and plays it on his drums until his arms hurt
<snap-l> Tataku : Best of Kodo II 1994-1999
<snap-l> I could see him getting into the second track
<brousch> sounds good
<snap-l> There's another one that might be too subtle for him: Raise the Roof by Michael Daugherty
<snap-l> Starts out really quiet, but, well, raises the roof
<snap-l> http://www.amazon.com/Daugherty-Blood-Motorcity-Triptych-Raise/dp/B002DHSGW2
<brousch> heh
<snap-l> Solo timpani
<snap-l> What's not to love?>
<brousch> he likes some evelyn glennie
<snap-l> I have not heard of her
<brousch> really?
<snap-l> Not by name, at least.
<brousch> she even did a ted talk
<snap-l> I stopped watching Ted a while back
<krondor> If you're just looking for singles; Sing, Sing, Sing (With a Swing) -- Benny Goodman is percussive and a hit w/ my 4 year old.
<krondor> Google also told me to read; http://kidsmusicthatrocks.blogspot.com/
<brousch> krondor: benny goodman song looks good
<brousch> krondor: i need http://kidsmusicthatdoesntdriveparentsinsane.com
<krondor> that's the site's subtitle basically; "Music for kids that doesn't make adults want to rip their hair out."
<krondor> only skimming the content isn't that great
<brousch> thanks guys
<snap-l> krondor: Just play 'em White Zombie when they're young
<snap-l> that's the tactic my bro-in-law has taken with his daughter.
<snap-l> She loves Lacuna Coil
 * krondor may be guilty of exposing his kids to not exactly 'age appropriate' music
<snap-l> "Stop whining you little brat, or you'll get The Stravinksy" again"
<snap-l> "NO Daddy, ANYTHING but early 20th centruty impressionistic classical music!"
<snap-l> s/impressionistic/neoclassical/
<tjagoda> so
<tjagoda> Anybody have advice for managing cell phone costs when employees go internationally roaming?
<tjagoda> Tired of salesmen having like $1,100 phone bills for their trips to Korea
<krondor> GSM phone you could try to teach them to use a local SIM (pay as you go) when on the trip
<krondor> apndroid for android also lets you disable all data/roaming with a toggle
<snap-l> Implement a no-trips policy, and give the salesmen tin cans and string for phones.
<krondor> some CDMA/GSM phones let you set a preferred network (so you could at least say only CDMA and stop GMS roaming).  S. Korea unfortunately has CDMA though...
<tjagoda> All my cells are GSM Blackberries
<krondor> I think that's all the ideas I have for now
<tjagoda> With a few iPhones and Droids on the salesmen
<krondor> well there's your first problem :P
<tjagoda> iPhones and Droids are like 80% of my cost
<tjagoda> The blackberries are the opposite of problem =P
<krondor> apndroid, no clue for iphones
<tjagoda> Costs me $50 to get a new BBerry Torch 9810
<tjagoda> Costs me $500 to get some salesmen their iPhone 4s
<tjagoda>  ./rage
<snap-l> tjagoda: Yeah, nobody wants to use their blackberries
<tjagoda> AWESOME
<tjagoda> =p
<snap-l> Might as well send them into the field with a brick
<snap-l> Actually, they might find that an improvement
<snap-l> has a more usable interface.
<snap-l> ;)
<tjagoda> I love this torch
<krondor> hmm, maybe your bb users are the most expensive given that backdoor to let foreign governments spy; http://www.osnews.com/story/25486
<tjagoda> Would much rather use it than support Google's growing ownership of life
<tjagoda> I find myself becoming the anti-google
<tjagoda> Ever since I realized they use the position data from Latitude in conjunction with your email trends to target adds to you based on what location and time of day it is
<tjagoda> Feels slightly too big brother
<brousch> krondor: Now that i think about it, Benny Goodman might not work. He doesn't like the cantina songs from Star Wars. He says they're "too bouncy"
<snap-l> As opposed to checking in via Four Square?
<krondor> brousch:  lol I love kids impressions of things
<snap-l> Or your cellphone company knowing where you are based on cell towers?
<krondor> you have to sign into latitude (not required to use maps (yet))
<snap-l> brousch: George is Anti-Jazz?
<snap-l> Ho boy
<brousch> i think so
<krondor> but yeah ... targetted ads will continue to get scarier and big money for google/facebook/foursquare/twitter/theNET
<brousch> which is fine, because i like very little jazz
<snap-l> You just haven't heard the right jazz
<brousch> oh god, it's the tool thing all over again
<krondor> my 4 year old is very specific in his rock picks.  He says if they don't have the drums that are boom boom crash crash it's not rock
<snap-l> BeBop and Post-Bop are what I really dig
 * krondor flailing hands to illustrate point
<snap-l> krondor: He sounds like most of the people on reddit/metal
<brousch> he's been reading my music reviews
<snap-l> If it has keyboards, it's crap
<snap-l> brousch: You might want to try some Finntroll on him. :)
<snap-l> Actually got my dad listening to that. :)
<snap-l> NattfÃ¶dd (2008)
<brousch> heh
<brousch> are those bagpipes?
<brousch> he loves bagpipes
<snap-l> They have a lot of bagpipe-sounding instruments
<brousch> nah, the singing will be "Too rough"
<brousch> i like it though ;)
<snap-l> Just tell him they're muppets
<brousch> nice
<brousch> you must have an awesome dad
<snap-l> He likes heavily produced stuff
<snap-l> One of his favorites is Meatloaf's Bat Out Of Hell
<snap-l> But yeah, growing up I raided his record collection like crazy
<snap-l> which explains a lot of my musical tastes
<tjagoda> I've been thinking about setting up an ownCloud on my VPS
<snap-l> Harry Chapin next to Focus next to novelty records.
<tjagoda> so I can reduce my google reliance
<tjagoda> for googledocs, image hosting, contact sync, etc
<tjagoda> http://owncloud.org/
<tjagoda> For those who haven't heard of it
<snap-l> Nifelvind is the album that I introduced my dad to
<krondor> I haven't played with owncloud yet, but I like the idea.  I'm looking forward to the cloud desktop owncloud bits from KDE.
<tjagoda> There's desktop sync in the pipes for ownCloud too
<krondor> I've been looking at rsync to s3 lately
<tjagoda> Seems to be less buggy than Ubuntu 1
<tjagoda> Surprised ubuntu 1 doesn't utilize ownCloud really
<snap-l> brousch: Eluveitie - Slania is also very good
<krondor> owncloud wasn't really doing much when u1 was out
<tjagoda> I like that I can use it from both Windows and Linux
<tjagoda> u1 is shittons of buggy when I try the windows client
<snap-l> brousch: Though much less muppety
<rick_h_> seriously? php? You're expecting that to scale to every Ubuntu user out there?
<tjagoda> I have faith in the ability of compiler nerds to do some crazy compiled php shit =(
<snap-l> tjagoda: Your faith is misplaced.
<rick_h_> about 6 test files in the base project?
<krondor> someday we'll get something as awesome as ifolder was (until Novell crapped on it)
<tjagoda> The other major downside
<tjagoda> is that it uses the apache variables for max upload size
<tjagoda> sorry
<tjagoda> php.ini variables for max upload size*
<tjagoda> derp herp derp
<snap-l> tjagoda: Any cloud solution that requires you to upload is not a cloud solution
<tjagoda> Bah
<snap-l> That's just called a file store.
<tjagoda> Desktop sync is in teh pipes
<rick_h_> and no build server, kthx done looking at owncloud
<tjagoda> And calendar and contacts syncing is all automated
<snap-l> tjagoda: If it can keep more than three devices in sycn, I'll be impressed
<rick_h_> http://owncloud.org/dev/api-documentation-2/
<snap-l> rick_h_: What's wrong with two-word API docs? :)
<rick_h_> and that's -2 :)
<rick_h_> yea, can't imagine why this hasn't taken over the OSS world yet
<tjagoda> We could play the "look at outdated Ubuntu wiki pages" game all day too
<tjagoda> woooo
<tjagoda> =P
<krondor> well to be nice to owncloud it does look much farther along than when I looked 6 months ago
<krondor> and they have an android client now apparently
<tjagoda> looks like the next major roadmap goal is to integrate an eBook reader
<tjagoda> so you can read books in your ownCloud
<tjagoda> I kind of like that
<tjagoda> as I have not embraced Kindles and etc.
<tjagoda> "HTML 5 Drag/Drop Uploader Enable drag and drop so that users can a drag a file from the local desktop into the ownCloud browser window for uploading."
<tjagoda> So uh... does HTML5 actually work yet?
<rick_h_> if you've got the right browser and do it right it can
<rick_h_> gmail is using an html5 drag/drop email attachment deal
<tjagoda> I see nothing but horrible press regarding the video streaming in HTML5, wasn't sure about much else in it
<rick_h_> html5 == css3 + html5 + EMCA5 basically so there's more than video streaming in it
<snap-l> Yeah, HTML5 is a major improvement over more than just video streaming
<tjagoda> I knew that
<tjagoda> However
<tjagoda> I did not know how much of it actually worked
<snap-l> would webgl and canvas also fit the HTML5 umbrella?
<rick_h_> yea, loosely as well I guess. /me hates the html5 sticker
<snap-l> It's as amorpheous as web 2.0
<snap-l> Did we ever figure out what web 2.0 means?
<rick_h_> web 2.0 == html5 :)
<krondor> well meaning I took it as (social integration (visitors are content producers), marketing I took it as our site is shiny and has flash/ajax)
<rick_h_> damn, was going to say web2.0 means pretty buttons
<krondor> no html5 is web 2.5/3.0 get your BS terms right :)
<rick_h_> sorry, I haven't caught up on my BS Terms Monthly subscription lately
<krondor> watch the marketting peeps say mobile apps are 3.0 or unweb or some crap
<krondor> oh man android user meetup snuck up on me again.  I missed the last two.
<rick_h_> native vs web is all the rage
<rick_h_> and I mean actual screaming rage inducing
<snap-l> Done right, it shouldn't matter.
<brousch> "people" are saying that users don't like a kind-of native experience, which mobile web provides. it angers and confuses them
<brousch> i have not met these people
<brousch> they must be ios users
<krondor> brousch: ++
 * rick_h_ walks away before two hours of discussion kicks off
<brousch> i don't give a shit how something looks as long as it works. which is why i'm fine running pidgin on kubuntu
<tjagoda> I think pidgin looks nice on Kubuntu
<tjagoda> =(
<brousch> it looks like gtk on kde
<tjagoda> I was not of the opinion that is bad
<brousch> me either, but it is not a consistent look and feel
<brousch> and some people are said to become angered and annoyed by such thing
<tjagoda> Wimps!
<rick_h_> any of you guys using vim from the cmdline have tips for making the bg not look odd?
<rick_h_> especially in the area where there's no content in the current file?
<snap-l> rick_h_: Transparent bg?
<snap-l> I've pretty much given up on transparent terminals because of vim and themes
<rick_h_> snap-l: like this http://uploads.mitechie.com/vim_cmd_line_color.png.png
<rick_h_> I've gotten the lines to get the darker bg until the end of the terminal
<rick_h_> but still have issues at hte bottom where there's no text
<snap-l> I think that's a function of your theme.
<rick_h_> right, so I'm trying to find the right thing in the theme to fix
<snap-l> rick_h_: colorscheme metacosm. ;)
<snap-l> Also, there's a tmux fix as well
<snap-l> one sec
<snap-l> set -g default-terminal "screen-256color"
<snap-l> in .tmux.conf
<snap-l> and then fire up tmux with `tmux -2`
<snap-l> rick_h_: Did thay help?
<snap-l> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2012/02/yahoo-claims-facebook-infringed-its-social-networking-patents.ars
<snap-l> Yahoo can officially suck it.
<rick_h_> snap-l: no, I've got 256 colors, it's just that the color scheme for that area isn't set or someting. The default background from the terminal is showing
<snap-l> rick_h_: Did you do both of the things I recommended?
<snap-l> also, how does it look without tmux?
<rick_h_> snap-l: hmm, so looks good sans tmux
<rick_h_> I did try both the thing you mentioned
<snap-l> Hmm...
<snap-l> I think that was the only two things that I did to make it work
<rick_h_> well I'll see at CHC maybe
<rick_h_> thanks
<snap-l> np
<snap-l> tmux does some really funky things with 256 colors. I noticed it most with vim
<snap-l> almost got me running back to screen
<snap-l> *almost*
<rick_h_> hmm, yea. I want to try to start using some tmux splits and cmd line vim more
<_stink_> oh no
<_stink_> should i be using tmux instead of screen?
<_stink_> i hope the answer is no, or else my whole world will be turned upside-down
<rick_h_> _stink_: yea
<snap-l> _stink_: WElcome to the world turning.
<snap-l> strap in
<rick_h_> it's basically official now, I resisted but caving
<_stink_> ahhh god
<_stink_> the pain.
<_stink_> wow, text search switching
<rick_h_> yea, it's pretty good for most things
<rick_h_> just this colorscheme issue for me now and I'll be a happy camber
<rick_h_> camper
<rick_h_> even has diff
<rick_h_> tiling modes :)
<krondor> tmux > screen I concur and byobu even wraps it now :)
<rick_h_> ugh byobu
<krondor> surprised rick_h_ is ughing a python project :)
<rick_h_> I've got a few on my list
<snap-l> byobu has it's moments
<brousch> boobyoooooooooooo!
<snap-l> I only use byobu as a dashboard for my remote host.
<snap-l> that's about it.
<_stink_> yeah.  like i want to reach for F9.
<snap-l> Sheesh, it's not like it requires you to use F9
<_stink_> heh, i wasn't clear.  if you want to use the menus, you gotta reach all over.  might as well just use it like vanilla screen, in which case it only offers the status bar stuff.
<_stink_> then you're down to using it like a dashboard.
<_stink_> which is really its only useful stuff imo.
<snap-l> yep
<_stink_> so we agree!
<snap-l> Yep, common ground
<snap-l> It's like you read my mind
<_stink_> sorry, i'll stop
 * snap-l wonders if _stink_ is his soulmate
<_stink_> i already wrote this in a trashy romance novel
<snap-l> His byobu is so dashing
<_stink_> :O
<snap-l> But only the F9 key-press kept them apart
<snap-l> It was as if a screen divided them
 * snap-l writes a new wrapper called boddice-ripper
<_stink_> haha
<snap-l> Well, I'm a chump
<brousch> admitting it is the first step
<nixternal> tell us something we don't already know though
<snap-l> those two days that I worked for $lastjob at the end of the year in lieu of buring the vacation is going to cost me those days.
<nixternal> anyone in here:   a) looking for a job     b) familiar with c++/java, loadbuilding, sql, and jboss
<nixternal> "work from home"
<nixternal> i have a client that is looking for someone to contract/consult to fit the bill
<brousch> yuck
<snap-l> nixternal: Not I, but thanks. :)
<Blazeix> a QA guy just emailed me a docx with a screenshot of the results of a sql query :(
<Blazeix> i'm allowed to hit him, right?
<nixternal> i did work for what i was told was an "all linux company" and they had a guy do the same crap to me
<rick_h_> Blazeix: yes, that's definitely allowed
<nixternal> Blazeix: no to the punch, you are allowed to pimp slap him though to get his ass back in line
<snap-l> Blazeix: It's the least you could do for him
<nixternal> if you all know of anyone who you think might fit the bill on that job stuff, have them email me nixternal@gmail.com with their info so I can pass it on
<nixternal> gotta go get more work done
<brousch> any of you east siders care about this kind of job? http://www.stardock.com/about/jobs.asp#jr_web_designer
<rick_h_> I'd rather they get someone to fix that website page there
<rick_h_> wtf...animated job req's? seriously?
<brousch> game company
<brousch> my sister might actually have made that page, so don't get too mean ;)
<rick_h_> :/ ummm...so yea.
<brousch> but probably not. doesn't look fancy enough
<rick_h_> heh, goodreads bombing for anyone else?
<brousch> a little slow, but working
<rick_h_> hmm, getting nginx error
<rick_h_> talk about sites needing a makeover :/
<brousch> it must be newish if it's using nginx!
<rick_h_> heh, that's just deployment, not the actual application
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-02-29
<snap-l> Happy leap day
<snap-l> or for those of you who don't observe leap day: Happy Feb 28+1
<rick_h_> heh, one more day to the birthday month!
<rick_h_> https://hacks.mozilla.org/2012/02/gaia-mozillas-user-interface-for-boot-to-gecko-all-web-technologies/
 * rick_h_ gets all excited for mobile dev in a browser !!!!!
<brousch> "What makes Gaia extra interesting is that it is all developed inÂ HTML5, CSS and JavaScript, and you can debug and view the code directly on the device or in a web browser!"
<brousch> That is awesome
<snap-l> "Also, you can have a XSS at the OS level"
<rick_h_> :)
<brousch> One of my biggest gripe with mobile is that you can't develop an app for your android/iphone on the device itself
<brousch> i theoretically have a quad core tablet with 1GB of ram and i can't develop an android app on it. that thing is more powerful than my laptop
<brousch> well, less ram, but you get my drift
<snap-l> screw this mobile dev. If you want to make a phone call, you should be plugged into the wall the way God intended.
<brousch> you give kids an ipad and all they can do is use it, they can't create for it without another computer
<rick_h_> bah, I need one more SA answer or something. Can't stand being at 1998 points
<snap-l> That's an order of magnatude more than what I have on SO
<rick_h_> snap-l: so my vim color thing is strange. If I page around a file, it clears up
<rick_h_> but the section that is bad, will still be bad when I page back up to it
<snap-l> Yeah,it's the re-draw
<snap-l> I think tmux isn't interpreting a background draw command
<rick_h_> not sure, it might be urxvt issues tbh
<snap-l> likely a combo
<rick_h_> right
<rick_h_> the levels are deep with the urxvt -> tmux -> vim -> color scheme
<snap-l> Have you tried different colorschemes?
<rick_h_> yea, they all have various degrees of better/worse
<snap-l> Ugh
<rick_h_> it really depends on how close the bg color of the scheme is to the native terminal bgcolor theme
<snap-l> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9058804/caribou_bogo_20120229.pdf
<snap-l> Show on your mobile phone for a discount.
<rick_h_> downloaded to my dropbox folder :)
<brousch> vimmers https://market.android.com/details?id=net.momodalo.app.vimtouch
<rick_h_> OMG /me rushes to install
<snap-l> Make sure to clean up afterward
<rick_h_> I installed the hacker keyboard just for this day
<brousch> rick_h_: don't burst a vessel
<rick_h_> hmm, I can't get it to work with a crap
<jrwren> snap-l: raspberrypi is the perfect sqeeze node!
<brousch> so it is vim!
<rick_h_> ok, somewhat got it working, ugh on the fact that you can't change keyboards from within the app
<rick_h_> and it not supporting G sucks
<rick_h_> but did get it to kind of work I guess
<snap-l> jrwren: Yeah, it does look pretty spiffy.
<brousch> G?
<rick_h_> brousch: end of document
<brousch> oh, that is weird
<rick_h_> krondor: 7pm CHC fyi
<krondor> rick_h_:  thanks for the reminder, just sent the approval request
<rick_h_> krondor: :)
<rick_h_> file the paperwork properly, I don't want any issues with processing lol
<krondor> aye, the paperwork is always my weakpoint
<krondor> pvcreate /dev/sda2
<krondor> woops wrong window :)
<snap-l> All: We need to come up with a different location for the global jam
<snap-l> unfortunately SRT isn't going to work out this weekend
<krondor> rick_h_:  approval granted cya tonight
<brousch> snap-l: your apartment
<snap-l> brousch: Sure thing. I charge $1000 per person
<brousch> outragous
<snap-l> http://ropl.org/index.php/library-services/meeting-rooms <- $125 for 5 hours
<brousch> food and drinks allowed?
<snap-l> brousch: And if you saw how big my house is, you wouldn't offer it up. :)
<snap-l> rick_h_ can attest to it's modest, yet crackerbox-like size.
<brousch> good idea. rick_h_'s house. then he will be able to attend
<snap-l> hah
<snap-l> No, I'm not putting him through that
<brousch> feel free to move it out of ann arbor if you have to
<snap-l> I'm going to post it to the list to see if anyone has any ideas
<snap-l> Unfortunately, I'm not coming up with anything at the moment.
<brousch> i wonder what U-M charges for a room
<snap-l> I don't know of any U-M students to ask
<Blazeix> you could hit up some ann arbor CHC people, i think they _just_ moved their CHC to a u-m room
<rick_h_> yea, @steiza  is the organizer listed on their meetup pages
<rick_h_> might ping him to see if he knows the ropes on what they're doing
<brousch> wait, don't we have WSU geekers in here?
<rick_h_> _stink_: ColonelPanic001 might have access to something?
<brousch> U-M Unions room request http://uuis.umich.edu/munionsched/commrequest.cfm
<brousch> no prices listed of course
<rick_h_> snap-l: call up the CHC room maybe? doubt it's open though :/
<brousch> does sourceforge have anything?
<brousch> what about the various hackerspaces?
<greg-g> the a2 hackerspace is CRAMPED
<greg-g> I mean, if only 5 people showed up, and you were ok on folding tables, and being right next to a bunch of nerds playing video games in a dark room
<greg-g> (they share a space with Digital Ops, one of those things that you thought died in 2003: computer game rent by the $time places)
<brousch> but there's little reason to keep it in ann arbor. greg-g is not there, and jrwren is probably the only other one
<greg-g> A2 downtown library has space someone can get, we did the Open Data hackathon thing there
<greg-g> brousch: very good point
 * greg-g just knows his old 'hood, not many other places
<brousch> right
<brousch> morpace can host us
<snap-l> brousch: Doubtful
<snap-l> Well, the Caribou R.O. Meeting room is available on Saturday from 7pm-11pm
<snap-l> Unfortunately, not beforehand.
<rick_h_> yea, that's rough for the west siders, and not sure if folks like jim would show for that or not
<rick_h_> hmm, floss weekly has gone down the tubes? Figured I'd put it on in the background but don't see it scheduled
<snap-l> Worst case, if we moved it to Sunday, would that work for people?
<snap-l> I'm kinda loathe to do that.
<rick_h_> so I can only speak for myself: sat night is cool with me and I could probably make that 90%
<greg-g> I would try to kee the same date/time
<rick_h_> sunday depends on the time
<krondor> a2hackerspacE?  all hands active?
<krondor> i3Detroit has lots of room, but probably not great for meetings. Most of the space is in the shop floor, and it can be noisy.
<krondor> probably too far sout/east as well for some (reading scrollback)
<snap-l> krondor: Not familiar with a2hackerspace or all hands active.
<brousch> 11pm is pretty late
<brousch> but it's a coffee shop, so i could drink a small caffeinated and bounce off the walls all night
<krondor> What about other colleges; OCC, OU?
<brousch> at this time i don't have any others coming with me
<brousch> ubuntu has really fallen out of favor over here
<mydogsnameisrudy> likes what linux mint 12 is doing
<krondor> I threw mint 12 on a vm, and I have to say I really didn't like the gnome3 activities overview thing
<snap-l> Actually, I think I have an OK from JoDee to have it here if need be
<krondor> other than that, mint seems nice.  I don't think I'll stay on it though
<snap-l> so I think that'll be the fallback
<brousch> snap-l: some apartment complexes have a common room you can reserve and rent
<snap-l> brousch: I'm no longer at an apartment. :)
<snap-l> but I'm right off I-75.
<brousch> you have a house?
<snap-l> long story.
<brousch> i must've missed that one
<snap-l> long story.
<snap-l> Plus we're w/in walking distance of downtown Royal Oak
<brousch> my sister lives out there
<brousch> N Wilson Ave
<rick_h_> snap-l: did you want me to ask the wife?
<snap-l> rick_h_: re: having it at your place?
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea
<snap-l> Up to you
<rick_h_> I mean if we take over upstairs can do dozen+ people w/o issue
<snap-l> I think you're a little far for the downriver folks
<rick_h_> yea, definitely
<snap-l> rick_h_: We're going to clear out the living room, so I think we can manage 10-15 people
<rick_h_> ok, know it can get tight there so wasn't sure what you wanted
<brousch> hang the conference banner?
<snap-l> Yeah, we made it work for Christmas
<snap-l> Trust me, I have the power of the squirrel
<rick_h_> snap-l: ok, if you've got it then all good
<snap-l> rick_h_: ty for the offer, though
<rick_h_> snap-l: k
<brousch> hey, we can all bring our kids and jodee can watch them!
<brousch> snap-l: how hard am i going to kicked for that one?
<snap-l> brousch: Only if you want them to learn how to build a nuclear reactor out of smoke detectors
<brousch> i'm ok with that
<snap-l> brousch: You won't be. :)
<nullspace> anyone in here that uses synergy, ever notice that some times you can move between both screens at any horizontal point on the sccreen on one but only the top right on another?
<krondor> nullspace:  nope never had that problem
<nullspace> it usually is there when I start it up but then goes away, something is up with my X setup on my desktop
<rick_h_> nullspace: no, I've got small quirks in where the top/bottom is, but only if I go hitting it
<snap-l> Yeah, I remember it being a tad quirky at times, but overall it worked OK
<rick_h_> yea, happy with it
<rick_h_> <3 vim... "gee I wish I had syntax coloring of this moinmoin wiki crap...oh look, there's a file to do it"
<greg-g> oh moin moin
<rick_h_> yea, can't get away from it *sigh*
<brousch> Any thoughts on this? http://clusterbleep.net/blog/2012/02/29/my-principle/
<snap-l> Extremely troubling
<snap-l> Also, people who put formatting in machine-read-only excel files need to stop
<snap-l> I swear, I'm going to write a program called tufte.py which will critique the formatting
<Blazeix> brousch: I agree with what you're saying, but things like the cloud9 ide might fix the issue
<snap-l> I <3 it when pep8 runs with no errors / warnings after I get done editing it.
<snap-l> It's like getting a little hug
<snap-l> of course, if I actually had tests for this code, that would be like getting a happy ending, but not getting too carried away.
<rick_h_> brousch: kind of interesting, but then again you don't build a car while driving one, you don't build a house inside of one, etc
<brousch> but there are logical reasons those don't happen. what reason is there for no ide on android?
<rick_h_> brousch: and web apps live on servers, not on mobile devices
<brousch> phonegap
<rick_h_> brousch: because it's not an experience for large entry
<rick_h_> I mean, shoot, my main development is on dual 1920 displays docked with a 7# keyboard and a trackball
<rick_h_> and I find that limiting sometimes
<brousch> i just use a laptop with a single 15" monitor
<Blazeix> is it crazy foggy up north? i'm at the rencen, and can't see the buildings across the street...
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, I mean you CAN do anything you want I guess
<rick_h_> vim over ssh client to another machine
<Blazeix> brousch: wow, you should get a bigger monitor :)
<brousch> workspaces
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, sure, but anyway. I just don't think it's feasible to say that an editor on an android phone with a paging through 'workspaces' like the home screen is going to make for a way to make great things
<brousch> no, i was saying one monitor is enough for me because i use workspaces. on android you only see one program at a time anyways
<greg-g> ubuntu on android will solve all your problems, brousch :P
<brousch> it's fragile and slow
<greg-g> but, I agree. it reminds me of Cory Doctorow's recent talk at CCC.
<brousch> right
<greg-g> now, there is also the "but not everything is even capable, form factor wise, of doing that" and I agree with that too. but I think we are limiting our kids if we only give them an ipad
<greg-g> (not that I'll give rowan an ipad, of course)
<brousch> well george has a chromebook, but it has the same limitations
<krondor> well I guess you can say there's vim and ports of gcc for android and keyboard/monitor support (hdmi out)
<krondor> ubuntu when it gets less fragile (and beefier hardware)
<rick_h_> when was exposing your children to one way of doing/using things ever good?
<brousch> yeah, actual linux on mobiles would fix the problem
<rick_h_> great, tablets are cheaper, easier to use...help them grow out of them
<rick_h_> this "think of the children" argument is bonkers
<brousch> you and i can help our kids, but what about the other 90% who can barely run windows?
<rick_h_> then how are they worse off?
<rick_h_> I didn't get a computer until college
<snap-l> People get tablets because they aren't computers
<brousch> we had programmable computers to learn on, they will have non-programmable tablets
<rick_h_> I program in linux for a living...it's not like if a 10yr old only uses a tablet they're stuck in life
<snap-l> My microwave has a computer, but I'm not inclined to disassemble it
<brousch> snap-l: shame on you
<snap-l> But, I do think people think of their computers as black boxes
<snap-l> and that sacares me
<snap-l> that's mainframe thinking
<rick_h_> and cars are black boxes
<rick_h_> and furnaces are black boxes
<snap-l> rick_h_: Cares are black magic. :)
<snap-l> cars, rather
<rick_h_> just because you're inside of the field doesn't mean everyone else is going to be, or should be
<rick_h_> I'm a cli loving hard core geek, I'm not over there teaching my wife how to use top
<brousch> why do you have to be in the field to write a program?
<rick_h_> why do you have to be a dr to write a prescription?
<brousch> laws
<rick_h_> ok, then call it natural selection :)
<krondor> brousch:  app inventor runs in a browser, maybe it works on stock android and the experience is good for kids to learn on (like mindstorms)
<rick_h_> seriously, those that are interested will do things
<brousch> krondor: i thought they killed that
<rick_h_> tablets aren't replacing all computers in the house, they're replacing #2, #3
<krondor> they passed it to MIT, and MIT looks to be maintaining it to some extent.
<krondor> you're right that the industry is moving towards black boxes though.. app stores/canned configs/etc..
<rick_h_> but someone is still writing the crap that goes intot he black boxes
<brousch> rick_h_: so let's ignore the kids argument. _I_ want to program for android on my tablet. what are my options?
<greg-g> brousch: I see the parallels with what you are saying and my experience dealing with the legal community
<rick_h_> I don't know about you, but I never downloaded winzip back when I was on windows and changed the source code
<krondor> even datacenters are doing it (vblock, hp sql consolidation appliance, etc...)
<rick_h_> brousch: and I want to build a fuel injector for my subaru with my woodworking tools in the garage
<rick_h_> oh wait...not going to work. Right tools for the job
<brousch> that is a lame argument
<rick_h_> so is saying that you want to write an app on a tablet.
<greg-g> I think it is missing the point, or at least tlaking around it, rick_h_
<brousch> this is a thing has a frickin linux kernel
<rick_h_> I want to use my tv remote to build a webpage
<krondor> brousch:  honestly you're looking at vim w/ scripting layer for android or remote desktop to a real computer for gcc and android SDK
<snap-l> my biggest concern is what happens when there's no more checkbook writers out there?
<krondor> with optional monitor / keyboard hookup to your android
<rick_h_> brousch: then use your ssh client to ssh to a machine with the sdk and enjoy building your app
<snap-l> checkbook writing being the people who tinkered with their computer to write a program to balance their checkbook
<rick_h_> or brousch, write tools that allow you to output the code via a tablet driven gui
<krondor> the gcc port for android is what I would call alpha
<snap-l> The itch scratching happens with a credit card, not with a reference card.
<rick_h_> right, but the ecosystem is what I'd call alpha
<brousch> ok, now lets make that easy enough so lesser programmers can do it
<rick_h_> how old is your computer you write programs on? how old is android?
<rick_h_> brousch: ok, have fun with that
<brousch> i will :P
<rick_h_> but seriously, the development ecosystem on computers is decades old
<rick_h_> this idea of apps on mobile devices is years old
<brousch> come on. it's a java app on an arm processor
<krondor> brousch:  People are trying to make it more approachable, but focusing on PCs as the coding device http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1415661
<snap-l> I think we lost our way with Java. :)
<rick_h_> I just don't think it's an issue
<krondor> lots of efforts around automating the dev environment setup for PC since that is what confuses most noobies
<rick_h_> most devices you don't dev for them on them
<brousch> desktop/laptop
<snap-l> Yeah, the PC brought that about
<rick_h_> krondor: it's "dev" that confuses most people
<rick_h_> not that it's on a pc
<snap-l> you used to have to do cross-compilation for the Atari 2600
<rick_h_> ask them to write a web app and you get the same thing
<krondor> I'm actually really excited to see what young kids are doing with aurdino and raspberrypi will be great too!
<brousch> rick_h_'s nay-saying actually has me more fired up to do this
<rick_h_> :) my mission is complete
<snap-l> pissed off into action
<brousch> hah
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-03-01
<snap-l> Updated the UGJ information to have the new venue
<snap-l> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-michigan/1526/detail/
<VisualAssassin> how do i check the version of ubuntu im running in the terminal?
<snap-l> Blazeix: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9058804/Eclipse%20Phase%20-%20RPG/PS%2B21000_EclipsePhase_3rdPrinting.pdf
<snap-l> (and for anyone else who likes pen and paper RPGs)
<Blazeix> thanks
<snap-l> np
<snap-l> Good morning
<brousch> snap-l: you live about 2 miles from my sister. i will have to visit her saturday
<rick_h_> morning
<brousch> you are correct sir
<tjagoda> Lots of news about the new Windows 8 beta.
<tjagoda> Apparently Server 8 also gets stupid metro tiles
<tjagoda>  /anger
<snap-l> brousch: Is that a good thing?
<brousch> it is good since i don't see her often
<snap-l> whew.
<brousch> actually i may see if she can watch my son and give my wife a day off
<snap-l> Is your sone OK with 3 hour car rides?
<snap-l> to and from? :)
<brousch> yeah, we went to detroit twice last summer
<brousch> and it's only 2.5 hours
<brousch> zoo and science center
<brousch> so this could work really well for me
<brousch> snap-l: you want me to bring anything? West MI beer? Black licorice candy?
<tjagoda> I want you to bring my an Ubuntu TV.
<brousch> tjagoda: are you going?
<brousch> and talk to the canonicoids in the room for that one :P
<tjagoda> Am I going to where?
<tjagoda> (I think I entered in the middle of this conversation)
<brousch> tjagoda: to the ubuntu michigan global jam event on saturday
<tjagoda> Oh, I dunno
<tjagoda> I have a contractor working on the house, not sure if he'll be doing stuff on saturday actually
<brousch> give him the day off
<tjagoda> Do you think this is france, where every fourth workday is a vacation? =P
<brousch> he is your employee. give him the day off
<snap-l> brousch: Bring what you wish to bring
<snap-l> we have a fridge
<brousch> what do you lack that you would like to have there? :P
<snap-l> What do we lack?
<snap-l> Hmmm....
<snap-l> We lack a sugar daddy like Devos and Van Andel.
<tjagoda> I have never met snap-l and had him summarily not be difficult.
<tjagoda> Its probably why he likes linux.
<snap-l> tjagoda: I'm just difficult around you because you love it so much
<snap-l> brousch: Bring me their estates. You can keep them.
<tjagoda> rofl
<snap-l> bbiab
<brousch> snap-l: you have quicken loans, automobile companies, and compuware
<brousch> this gib person seems interesting
<brousch> juno.com email address? juno seriously still exists?
<rick_h_> lol
<brousch> and it sticks a botox ad in the email?
<brousch> a linux user who tolerates this kind of thing must be fascinating
<rick_h_> adding a couple of vimbits: http://vimbits.com/bits/273 and http://vimbits.com/bits/272
<rick_h_> plus appreciated :)
<snap-l> I have to create an account? Bah
<rick_h_> :P
<snap-l> My Google account is my passport. ;)
<rick_h_> I miss college: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_sUeGC-8dyk
<snap-l> I miss all of the people who wouldn't give me the time of day
<snap-l> oh, wait, I can get that on IRC. ;)
<snap-l> It's like I never left.
<snap-l> (kidding)
<snap-l> Actually, that was more high school than college.
<rick_h_> sorry stand up call. the time is 9:44am EST
<rick_h_> :P
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> We're on God's time here
<tjagoda> Somebody misses college?
<tjagoda> feel free to come take my java programming course for me then =P
<brousch> i wish we'd had java courses when i was in college
<brousch> much easier than C and C++
<snap-l> brousch: No, no you don't.
<tjagoda> I had both
<tjagoda> C++ was easier.
<brousch> pointers make me cry
<brousch> i would rather punch myself in the testicles than manage my own memory
<snap-l> public static void up up down down left right left right a b a b is soooooo much better.
<snap-l> I'd rather read memory directly than have to cast every God-damn thing.
<brousch> "Microsoft's cloudy platform, Windows Azure, is experiencing a major outage: at the time of writing, its service management system had been down for about seven hours worldwide."
<krondor> MS just doesn't like leap years
<krondor> the guy that worked on the zune leap year bug moved to the azure team
<krondor> windows phone team didn't want him :|
<brousch> that makes sense
<snap-l> If only there were libraries to handle dates
<snap-l> ;)
<snap-l> Argh.
<snap-l> Python is too clever sometimes.
<snap-l> class Baz:
<rick_h_> oops
<snap-l>   def __init__(self, baz=[]):
<snap-l>      self.baz = baz
<snap-l> a = Baz() and b = Baz() will both point to the same place
<rick_h_> - class Baz(object) [use new style classes]
<snap-l> er, a.baz and b.baz
<snap-l> OK
<rick_h_> - bzr=[] [never never never set a default to a mutable default]
<snap-l> Feh
<rick_h_> baz=None
<rick_h_> if not baz: self.baz = []
<snap-l> OK
<snap-l> I knew I was doing something stupid, but couldn't articulate it for Google. :)
<snap-l> Thank you.
<rick_h_> yea, been there done that
<rick_h_> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6794285/python-function-remembering-earlier-argument-kwargs
<snap-l> Yeah, I figured that's what it was doing
<snap-l> "Hey, I already have a Baz-ified [], I'll just use that!"
<rick_h_> yea, eventually you have to figure out the quirks of mutable vs immutable types in python
<snap-l> Hah. "Snakenet Metal Radio: Your source for going deaf on the Internet"
<snap-l> On the plus side, I now know about id
<rick_h_> heh yea
<jcastro> latest stackexchange podcast is pure gold
<rick_h_> jcastro: yea? /me goes to look
<jcastro> jrwren: ^^^^
<jcastro> yeah so jeff is leaving and it's basically a summary of their history and what they learned
<snap-l> (Stack Overflow is not another place to discuss tabs vs. spaces.) <- That's what Programmers.SE became.
<jcastro> hah yeah
<jcastro> but at least that stuff gets contained on programmers
<snap-l> Sadly, my programmer.se score is higher than my SO score.
<jcastro> hah
<snap-l> the answer to two questions:
<snap-l> What do you wish you learned in college: More C.
<snap-l> Will I speed my compiles by using tabs vs. spaces: I will dragon-kick you in the neck.
<snap-l> And jcastro, yes I can see Google Maps being replaced in a lot of places now that they've gone and upped the pricing
<brousch> i am seeing people asking about alternative
<nullspace> yawn
<snap-l> fucking piwik
<brousch> mapquest actually looks good. use their data or openmaps, drop in google api replacement, free unlimited community version
<snap-l> They have a piwik bug on their page.
<snap-l> Strange. I have a peak on my network where I was sending as much as I was receiving which was just shy of 6Mbps
<snap-l> what's strange about that is my upload cap is 1Mbps
<brousch> maybe wifi
<brousch> sending inside the lan
<brousch> dropbox lan sync?
<snap-l> Over wan? Don't think so
<brousch> interesting. the kindle app has registered itself a a pdf reader on my NC
<brousch> it's a decent alternative to adobe
<snap-l> I picked up ezPDF reader.
<snap-l> It's OK. Seems to do a bit better on antialiasing than the built-in reader.
<brousch> adobe reader stays zoomed in to the level i want when changing pages, but it also slides back and forth with my thumb
<snap-l> shame that it doesn't register itself as the last thing you read, though. :)
<snap-l> blergh, I hate that
<brousch> kindle reader jumps back to full page view when changing pages
<brousch> i want a zoom-and-lock funtion
<brousch> zoom to these margins and keep them
<brousch> oh baby. i just changed one setting and one color and my color scheme is even nicer
<brousch> hawt
<krondor> hmm, I just realized that imgur.com animates the favicon for animated gifs
<krondor> didn't realize that was a thing
<krondor> it apparently only works in FF http://i.imgur.com/qdgYU.gif
<brousch> sounds annoying
<snap-l> How's the Thurdsay so far?
<snap-l> Thursday, even
<brousch> lookin good
<brousch> i'm all set for saturday
<rick_h_> meh
<snap-l> rick_h_: meh?
<rick_h_> yea, thurs is meh
<brousch> but you can use vim on android
<brousch> that has to pump you up
<brousch> snap-l: are you providing lunch saturday?
<snap-l> brousch: WE can get pizza if you want
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> I hadn't planned on any food, though
<brousch> just wondering if i should eat beforehand
<rick_h_> jodee is going to make pie for everyone
<brousch> ok, i'll grab something with G
<brousch> ooooh, what kind of pie?
<snap-l> brousch: Pizza pie
<brousch> py pie
<rick_h_> your choice I heard
<snap-l> Actually, I hadn't thought of it.
<rick_h_> I'm officially out
<snap-l> and Perry's doesn't open until 4pm
<rick_h_> by the way :(
<snap-l> rick_h_: Ugh, sorry to hear that.
<brousch> booo
<rick_h_> gave it a shot, but dad is in town on his anuual trip and my wife let me know what a 'good son' would do
<brousch> a good son would bring his dad along so they could bond over freedom?
<snap-l> Yeah, cram him into the car and take him to a gathering of his nutty friends in cramped location. ;)
<brousch> and so his dad could see what his favorite little guy does all day?
<snap-l> brousch: (Somehow I don't think this is working)
<brousch> gotta try you know
<rick_h_> heh
<brousch> snap-l: don't worry about food. i'll grab lunch with my sister and son
<snap-l> brousch: Well, we might get something
<snap-l> not entirely sure
<snap-l> but yeah, don't want G to get off schedule
<brousch> he eats all day until 4PM, then he stops
<brousch> have to shove dinner down his throat
<brousch> hmmmmm http://lusob.com/2012/01/django-ide/
<rick_h_> heh, awesome
<brousch> wow, this isn't half-bad
<brousch> you can actually edit the python files, templates, and css from right in the browser
<brousch> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/snapshot17.png
<rick_h_> brousch: cool
<rick_h_> now can multiple people pull up the same url at the same time?
<rick_h_> pairing?
<brousch> not sure
<rick_h_> open it in FF and chrome :)
<brousch> it let me open both and edit, but changes are not reflected automatically
<rick_h_> ok
<rick_h_> well curious, didn't think so but worth a test
<brousch> actually i can't get the changes to come up at all on the second
<rick_h_> still chromebook friendly perhaps
<brousch> ok, got the changes across
<brousch> basically it lets you open one django app at a time. changes get synced when you leave that app in the editor
<brousch> then last edit sticks
<brousch> so you could have multiple people in there if they're working on different apps
<brousch> also i don't see how to change application-level files like the root urls.py and settings
<brousch> but a very interesting start
<brousch> hm, he checked .pyc files into github. is that a bad sign?
<snap-l> brousch: Punishment must be administered
<brousch> also, no changes in 3 months
<devinheitmueller> He's just making it more efficient (so you don't have to recompile the modules).  :-)
<brousch> riiiight
<rick_h_> brousch: no ~/.gitignore ?!
<rick_h_> fix your dotfils pls kthx
<rick_h_> brousch: should get you started http://paste.mitechie.com/show/554/
<brousch> i don;t like it. *.pyc is in there twice
<Blazeix> you can never be too careful
<rick_h_> clearly :)
<brousch> there, added a few http://paste.mitechie.com/show/555/
<brousch> now you won't be annoyed by pydev eclipse users
<brousch> and the __pycache__ thing is from the newest python versions i think
<tjagoda> Holy crap
<tjagoda> haven't apt-get upgraded in a while
<tjagoda> 495 MB of updates
<rick_h_> widox: ooh, you get mixins http://php.net/traits cool
<tjagoda> Uhoh
<tjagoda> "internal Error, no file name for libc6"
<tjagoda> that can't be good.
<greg-g> bah, who needs libc?
<snap-l> tjagoda: Do an update
<snap-l> apt-get update
<tjagoda> that's what broke the lib
<tjagoda> lol
<tjagoda> apt-get -f dist-upgrade in combination with some dpkg seems to have fixed it
<tjagoda> Whew
<tjagoda> this is a very painful upgrade
<tjagoda> shame on me for letting it get to be 6,000 miles long
<snap-l> yes
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-03-02
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> it's plant day yay!
<jrwren> what does that mean?
<jrwren> morning!
<rick_h_> fish tank plant shipment arrives today
<rick_h_> so I can start get new fish tomorrow after spending the last few weeks in setup
<snap-l> Yay!
<snap-l> IT's interesting seeing the bitcoin thefts in recent months
<snap-l> almost like bank robberies
 * snap-l wonders what list that sentence put him on
<rick_h_> heh yea, I thought you couldn't do that though since they're signed/validated type things
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, I'm not entirely sure how they work
<snap-l> unless you mark them as spent or something.
<snap-l> rick_h_: We were wonderingif the fish would also get trained
<snap-l> and when they'll learn their ABCs. ;)
<rick_h_> no, unfortunately they only 'trick' they learn drives me nuts
<rick_h_> "oooh, people...let's swarm and hope for food"
<rick_h_> so you have to admire from a distance, stupid fish
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_Iznh9VbsY
<rick_h_> yea, you'll never see a goldfish in one of my tanks
<snap-l> rick_h_: Not even as a feeder fish?
<snap-l> c'mon, they're cheap, and the pee up a tank like little gold carp.
<rick_h_> nope
<brousch> what's wrong with goldfish?
<snap-l> brousch: They're essentially gold-colored carp?
 * rick_h_ has a passionate hate for goldfish
<rick_h_> they're the django of the fish world, built for the less than sophisticated :P
<brousch> wow
<brousch> carp are fun
<snap-l> rick_h_: Well said
<brousch> we used to have an annual fishing thing called carpfest. we would use balled up dog poop and dough as bait
<snap-l> brousch: That should be a data point. :)
<rick_h_> ah, well how can I possible say unsophisticated at that?
<brousch> come on. they're fish. no fish is sophisticated
<rick_h_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEJT3HzOBp4
<rick_h_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_m4-UD4i5JU nice
<snap-l> Woah, that's beautiful
<rick_h_> yea, just search for planted aqariums
<rick_h_> that's the "idea" of what I'll be working towards, just don't have the skills/equipment to pull it off that well yet
<rick_h_> why I say a good aquarium is room decor really
<brousch> ooops http://bitcoinmedia.com/compromised-linode-coins-stolen-from-slush-faucet-and-others/
<snap-l> IT's not a real aquarium unles it has painted blue gravel and skelatal pirate remains with an air-activated treasure chest.
<rick_h_> lol
<brousch> snap-l++
<snap-l> http://www.lulu.com/blog/2012/03/01/vampire-diaries-harpercollins/ <- This is horseshit.
<snap-l> Ubuntu haters theme song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbMXPsmyAiI
<snap-l> Man, I never usually listen to King's X, but I love it every time I do
<rick_h_> ATT is going to get mad at me today. Fresh installs of two machines
<rick_h_> make-ifying lots of setup stuff so reloads and reloads to test it works
<snap-l> heh. :)
<nullspace> rick_h_: why would ATT get mad at you?
<rick_h_> even reinstalling the netbook today with the beta1
<rick_h_> nullspace: just hammering my net pretty much straight today so far
<rick_h_> love it when downloads go from kB/s to M
<krondor> nullspace:  ATT hates when they're customers attempt to use the capacity they sold them.  It's common knowledge.
<rick_h_> pretty much :)
<krondor> woot I know its friday because my grammar is bad (s/they're/their/)
<rick_h_> really cool http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3653805
<nullspace> that sucks
<snap-l> BTW: IF you're planning on coming to the jam tomorrow, please please PLEASE RSVP so I have a better idea of who is coming.
<snap-l> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-michigan/1526/detail/
<brousch> ok
<snap-l> brousch: Thank you. :)
<brousch> oh wait, forgot to add the 12 others i'm bringing
<snap-l> brousch: That's fine. We have room for them inthe back yar.
<snap-l> yard, even
<brousch> how did you know they were dogs?
<snap-l> My allergies told me.
<brousch> snap-l: do you know of others who haven't rsvped?
<snap-l> I think waldo323_ hasn't
<snap-l> Not sure if anyone else is coming
<snap-l> hence the "please RSVP"
<snap-l> I need to know how much febreeze I'll need for when you guys leave. ;)
<brousch>  A LOT
<brousch> just for that i'm eating taco bell tonight
 * snap-l makes a note to get the 55 gallon drum and a pump to spray brousch down as he enters.
<brousch> you m ight want to. i have 2 dogs
<brousch> make me sit on a plastic-covered chair
<snap-l> hah
<snap-l> Nah, that should be OK
<brousch> i will bring some beers
<snap-l> Awesome.
<tjagoda> Is anybody else running the 12.04 beta yet?
<tjagoda> (in unity)
<rick_h_> https://picasaweb.google.com/116120911388966791792/Aqarium?authuser=0&feat=directlink
<rick_h_> plants are started, going to take weeks/months for them to grow in, but it's greener
<tjagoda> I think I'm missing the system configuration applet that has all the unity settings.
<rick_h_> tjagoda: yes, running it in two places as of this morning :)
<tjagoda> Do you have "User Interface" in your system settings?
<snap-l> rick_h_: nice!
<brousch> what are these settings you speak of?
<rick_h_> no, just appearance
<tjagoda> hm.
<rick_h_> tjagoda: I think that was from that ccsm stuff wasn't it?
<brousch> unity is the anti-kde
<tjagoda> I saw a demo in which this dude was able to set the color of his unity dash, via system settings
<tjagoda> I didn't think it was ccsm, maybe it was
<snap-l> https://plus.google.com/photos/116120911388966791792/albums/5715327558486625105/5715327560765671730?banner=pwa <- rick_h_ is that a heater?
<tjagoda> So the only added unity configuration option is really just "Dont hide the dock" and "Make the icons big/smaller"
<tjagoda> =(
<rick_h_> snap-l: no, extra filter to help out while I settle things
<rick_h_> snap-l: it'll get yanked once things are going ok
<rick_h_> it's just pulling water through that fiber in the bottom for extra filtering of big stuff
<snap-l> rick_h_: Ah, haven't seen one of those before. Looked strange.
<brousch> rick_h_: come on, not a single pirate-related item?
<rick_h_> yea, just a powerhead at the top with a container below for fiberous filter media
<rick_h_> brousch: nope...no pirates
<brousch> humbug
<rick_h_> just a bunch of $$ down the drain...I mean fish tank
 * snap-l cancels his big order of plastic pirate stuff for rick_h_'s tank
<snap-l> http://www.squidoo.com/pirate-fish-tank-aquarium-decorations
<tjagoda> I am intimidated by Rick's fish tank.
<brousch> how about a classy, half-naked mermaid on that stick?
<rick_h_> hah (on the pirate ship)
<rick_h_> brousch: I cannot seem to find a way to reply that doesn't put me in CoC violations
<snap-l> rick_h_: snicker
<tjagoda> I hate unity a lot less when the launcher bar not auto-hiding
<tjagoda> definitely still hate the global menu bar.
<tjagoda> ...so if I'm in firefox
<brousch> yeah, that is incredibly annoying
<tjagoda> and I type "print" into the HUB
<tjagoda> HUD*
<tjagoda> ...it gives me the cups printer devices window
<tjagoda> -_-
<tjagoda> What I actually have to type is "file" and then go find print in the list
<tjagoda> Typing "File Pr" gives not File Print as the top choice, but "Work Offline" as the top choice
<tjagoda> HUD needs lotsowork
<snap-l> http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2012/02/hands-on-with-windows-8-server-beta-a-quick-start-to-domain-domination.ars <- THAT'S a server panel?
<snap-l> (puke)
<tjagoda> Thats the server start menu =(
<tjagoda> Leaking into the rest of server =(
<brousch> snap-l: doesn't your server have a touch screen?
<tjagoda> The theory behind it is to make it so you can remote admin from a tablet
<tjagoda> which sounds like a fun hour of excruciating pain
<snap-l> I hope Metro gives Microsoft the kicking they deserve
<brousch> i already do that. it's called connectbot
<tjagoda> I am angered by the lack of negative press Metro is getting
<tjagoda> Physically angered
<brousch> tjagoda: i think the people who really hate it already moved on to other things
<tjagoda> So angered that I log into minecraft 1.2 to go annihilate all the kittens
<brousch> i for one, don't give a rats ass about it
<tjagoda> What really makes me angry
<tjagoda> is that in two years the only apps allowed within the windows 8 app store will be HTML fancypants web apps
<tjagoda> no local stuff
<tjagoda> all web stuff
<brousch> then why use windows at all?
<tjagoda> At which point my computer is no longer a computer, but a toy
<brousch> the only people use windows is to run applications that don't run on anything else
<tjagoda> True
<tjagoda> Perhaps that makes life easier for linux
<snap-l> brousch: "then why use windows at all?" <- THIS
<brousch> no one _wants_ to use windows. they _have_ to
<brousch> ok, there are some few demented people who want to use windows
<tjagoda> Like jrwren?
<tjagoda> =P
<brousch> no, he uses apple
<tjagoda> Doesn't he like live inside of .NET though?
<rick_h_> not any more
<tjagoda> I thought his clothes were actually made from sewn-together pieces of old ASP manuals. =(
<rick_h_> jrwren: where's the new gig?
<rick_h_> https://twitter.com/#!/davglass/status/175612954891390976/photo/1/large is scary
<tjagoda> jcastro's personal hell
<snap-l> Now if each of those tablets had a picture of his kids, that would be scary.
<rick_h_> they're all running YUI tests
<snap-l> I'm not sure if I'm turned on, or turned off.
<tjagoda> Wow
<tjagoda> Comcast business internet for 100/100 throughput
<tjagoda> not that expensive
<rick_h_> bwuhahaha Makefile all the things!
<rick_h_> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/556/ I'll have to sed up the nginx.conf so it's global/reusable as well
<snap-l> Oh jeez.
<rick_h_> local pypi mirror in one command (well two)
<rick_h_> make install && make update
<rick_h_> then wait for 30gb to download
<brousch> sheat, 30GB?
<brousch> seems like a caching proxy would be more valuable
<brousch> a caching proxy pipi mirror
<rick_h_> well it's like a debian mirror, but smaller
<rick_h_> it's got a cron job to pull new stuff each day, etc
<rick_h_> I mean, I'm not dying for 30gb
<rick_h_> not running it on the laptop, just the local network
<brousch> but you could have a local caching mirror on your laptop
<rick_h_> yea, problaby, but I've got the ssd so any largish space like might not be great
<krondor> speaking of ssd anyone know if Intel RST (ssd cache mainly) has Linux support... I'm thinking no, but so far haven't Google'd anything great.
<rick_h_> jcastro: might know as he was shopping around ssd's more recently than me
<rick_h_> I've not checked
<jcastro> no clue on that one
<krondor> oh well, I'm just assuming no which means I look at things like bcache some more (or zfs l2arc)
<jcastro> rick_h_: who do I talk to about ubuntu SSO, is that a launchpad thing or ISD thing?
<rick_h_> jcastro: IS
<jcastro> IS or ISD?
<rick_h_> I'd be in #is
<rick_h_> jcastro: I think, but it depends on what the issue really is
<jcastro> is that a guess or do you know?
<jcastro> Askubuntu needs to be using ubuntu sso and not launchpad sso
<jcastro> but when they looked at it:
<rick_h_> ah, I gotcha
<jcastro> http://meta.askubuntu.com/questions/2076/launchpad-single-sign-on-needs-to-be-replaced-with-ubuntu-sso
<jcastro> and I need to link up a dude with this guy
<rick_h_> jcastro: yea, I'd toss that to the contact in #is and if they can't help they should be able to point you 100%
<rick_h_> but no, I don't know 100%, but with SSO stuff I start with webobs in launchpad-ops and when it's outside of that I've gone to #is
<rick_h_> and this is all about getting out of launchpad part of it
<brousch> snap-l: i have some blank dvds, cds and a usb burner
<brousch> anything else you think we'll need?
<brousch> oh, and 12 different west michigan beers
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-03-03
<snap-l> brousch: I'm picking up some pop and snacks tonight
<snap-l> if you want to being some stuff along those lines, that would be cool
<brousch> i love downloading torrents on comcast at off-hours. 1.8MiB down right now
<brousch> damn. kubuntu torrents only have 1 seeder each
<brousch> i'm outtie. see ya later
<snap-l> rick_h_: Got some rasbora tetras?
<tjagoda> Tetnis?
<greg-g> does anyone know a haphuong ?
<greg-g> join !ubuntumi on identi.ca, looks spammy, but also, maybe not. temporarily blocked him. if you know him and he isn't a spammer, let me know :)
<greg-g> wait, is snap-l awake and kicking identi.ca spammers too?
 * greg-g just got a "this user is already blocked" message
<brousch> I'm at national coney in royal oak
<brousch> Be there after lunch
<greg-g> oh right! have fun today, everyone!
<snap-l> Thanks!
<snap-l> We be jammin'
<snap-l> Hmmm, the "upgrade" is asking me to create a new user
<rick_h_> snap-l: halequi rosabora yea
<snap-l> Awesome. :)
<snap-l> They're adorable
<rick_h_> yea, pretty hardy, small guys to start with
<snap-l> THought it was too soon for fish?
<rick_h_> no, plants are going and only got the 5 little guys for now
<rick_h_> so I'll add a few fish every 4ish days for a while and should be good
<rick_h_> but it's small/slow adding and the plants are off and running so sohuld be good
<snap-l> Is there a test squite we're supposed to be running?
<rick_h_> for the jam?
<rick_h_> http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/ snap-l
<snap-l> Danke
<snap-l> WEll, made an 1104 machine unusable with a 12.04 upgrade
<greg-g> snap-l: success?
<snap-l> ERgh, reload.
<snap-l> Not sure how to describe it as a usable bug
<snap-l> Apparently ATheros cards are now in the "not working' category.
<snap-l> Anyone know if Ubuntu One is supported in Rhythmbox?
<rick_h_> the store?
<rick_h_> I guess it should be, isn't the default music app moved back to that?
<snap-l> Yeah, it's not in there.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-03-04
<brousch> Dicey roads around Lowell, but we made it home
<rick_h_> yay, how was the sprint?
<brousch> Intimate
<Blazeix> brousch++
<brousch> Just snap-l, gib, me, and jodee
<snap-l> Very intimate.
<snap-l> Had soft music, candles, and libations
<brousch> Still no dup on my bugs. I am awesome
<snap-l> http://thiefscandle.bandcamp.com/ <- Wow, it's like musical geocities
<rick_h_> snap-l: cool, sorry it wasn't a full house
<rick_h_> ummm http://paste.mitechie.com/show/557/ ...
<nixternal> why does every freakin' java package have a dependency on ant? at least they fixed them installing ant & maven at the same damn time
<nixternal> and why would you install jenkins or any java package from the ubuntu repos? everyone should know by now you don't touch them or ruby packages with a 10-foot pole
<rick_h_> well I wanted to check out the officials vs the jenkins ppa
<rick_h_> since we're starting to use a lot of jenkins figured it'd be good stuff
<rick_h_> and it's a new precise install
<rick_h_> but then that scared the crap out of me
<nixternal> i have started creating a ~/.dev-src and just building from source
<rick_h_> ah
<nixternal> especially with java & ruby stuff
<rick_h_> yea, I'm working on trying to setup more docs/auto building things for stuff I use
<nixternal> i need to do the same now that work is picking up
<nixternal> plus with jenkins, the easy part is installing. setting it up, even from the repos is still a pita
<rick_h_> yea, definitely. I wish there was a better export/import/setup stuff
<rick_h_> but oh well, I need to get it running so here we go
<nixternal> build one :)
<rick_h_> havne't had bookie auto builds in a while
<rick_h_> heh, I've got enough crap to code right now
<nixternal> thanks for bookie btw. it has pretty much replaced my /web-dev/ feeds in google reader :)
<rick_h_> oh you tinkering with it?
<nixternal> oh yeah
<nixternal> i snoop it daily a couple of times a day
<rick_h_> awesome
<jjesse> nixternal,  how come i was in chicago for 2 weeks and we never got together?
<jjesse> like lunch or antyhing
<nixternal> how come you never called me while you were here? that is all your fault you were here that long and didn't touch base with me :p
<jjesse> hahaha
<jjesse> cause i no longer have your # in my phone
<jjesse> i mean hell i checked all over foursquare
<nixternal> 630 445 3860
<nixternal> my website has my number on it too
<jjesse> ok ok added it
<nixternal> groovy
<nixternal> what were you doing in chicago for 2 weeks?
<snap-l> http://assuke.bandcamp.com/album/broken-back-ep
<nixternal> you ever watch that tv show on hbo called angry boys?
<nixternal> that reminded me of the rapper dude, smouse and his raps. especially the no arms one
<nixternal> he just repeats nonsense over and over. absolutely hillarious
<snap-l> apparently i found a disciple.
<tjagoda> nixternal
<tjagoda> your number is now logged in the ubuntu irc logs
<tjagoda> fyi =(
<nixternal> my number has been in the logs forever
<nixternal> my number is in LP, my website, twitter, you name it
<tjagoda> This guy
<tjagoda> Is the face in the dictionary next to "open"
<snap-l> tjagoda: It's also got a "see also: don't fuck with me"
<nixternal> believe it or not, i rarely get spammed. people who use it and call me are legit, and it gets me work when i am sitting around in my undies doing nothing :)
<snap-l> I have my GV number on my site
<snap-l> And sometimes that gets me useful calls, but mostly it gets me recruiters that don't know when to bugger off
<nixternal> yeah, i think mine is there now as well
<nixternal> i have them both actually
<jjesse> who wants a that mental picture of nixternal  sitting in his undies
<jjesse> garagh
<nixternal> if someone calls & the number isn't in my address book, it goes straight to voice mail anyways
<nixternal> better than the mental picture i am about to give you. i am chatting to you right now sitting on the toilet
<jjesse> awesome have a good dump for me
<nixternal> you are sick!
<snap-l>   mention my name for a good seat
<snap-l> Pinch one off for victory
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> you all have issues, worse than me i think
<nixternal> rick_h_: actually, the font you use for the bookie logo, inspired me to use it for my cycling team's website. is that cabin sketch or are you using a non-free font? i can't remember now
<nixternal> it fits perfect when used with a blueprint like background, especially when "By Design" is in your team's name
<nixternal> maybe one of these days I will finish the damn site
<rick_h_> nixternal: yea, cabin sketch from google's fonts and just cabin for the rest
<nixternal> heh, yeah, i was using cabin already, but didn't know about the cabin sketch until i snooped your github
<nixternal> well, i know who is adding the bandcamp links now
<rick_h_> bah, stupid jenkins isn't using a jenkins user, "start by user anonymous" so I can't su and fix path issues :(
<nixternal> from the repos?
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> figured wtf I'd try it, not regretting it
<rick_h_> set shell to /bin/zsh, can't find virtualenv in python path, but it's installed system wide
<nixternal> hrmm, i swore by default the user:group was jenkins:jenkins
<rick_h_> yea, used to be, but nothing in my /etc/passwd for it
<nixternal> now that is interesting. i use zsh and have no probs with virtualenv
<rick_h_> % sudo su jenkins                                                                          (rharding@wingman:~/)
<rick_h_> Unknown id: jenkins
<nixternal> hrmm, did the package creat a jenkins group?
<nixternal> or are they using www-data by default?
<rick_h_> nope, just tomcat
<rick_h_> oh hmm, dind't think of www-data
<rick_h_> hmmm, if I su www-data I can get virtualenv
<nixternal> did you log in/out after setting the shell to zsh? that can be a tricky sob if you don't log in/out
<nixternal> chsh - enter your password - then do:  /bin/ksh  - i dare you!
<nixternal> i would like to kill the 1990s linux user who set korn shell on every freakin' machine at one of my client's locations
<nixternal> first thing i do now is type 'bash'
<nixternal> i can't stand ^h anymore
<rick_h_> bah, set unix auth and now can't login. I have a feeling this test with local packages is coming to an end
<nixternal> haha
<rick_h_> almost, cool
<rick_h_> well this was a bigger pita than originally planned
<nixternal> it usually is especially when the plan starts with 'sudo apt-get'
<nixternal> or zypper, or yum, or pacman. it doesn't matter which distro (except for slackware), they all have bum packages when it comes to a non-distro development environment
<nixternal> great for packaging and writing useless python scripts/apps
<nixternal> remember, the goal behind any dev environment in ubuntu is "opportunistic". real dev starts with './configure && make -j9 && make install'
<nixternal> or pip :)
<rick_h_> well fortunately it's make install && make builder_test
<nixternal> i get scared when they take care of the ./configure portion
<rick_h_> well this is bookie so pure python stuff in a virtualenv
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<_stink_> yo
<brousch> water heater burst this morning. fun fun
<tjagoda> Carpeted area around it?
<brousch> no
<brousch> and i had a pan and drainage hoses hooked up, so not too bad
<tjagoda> Thats good
<tjagoda> Last time our burst it overflowed the pan and got the carpet in the room next door
<brousch> it would've gone over if i wasn't home to turn off the water
<rick_h_> ugh, that sucks brousch :(
<tjagoda> nice
<brousch> and blown up the house since the pilot went out and gas was leaking
<tjagoda> oh jesus
<tjagoda> electric water heaters here
<snap-l> brousch: Ugh, sorry to hear that. Hope it can get cleaned up and fixed soon
<snap-l> and glad it didn't happen during jam time
<brousch> snap-l: yeah
<brousch> it's not a big mess. i had hoses hooked up beforehand. just no hot water until we get it replaced
<tjagoda> Giant system76 machine about to be reviewed on this neat show about Linux: http://jblive.tv/
<tjagoda> The Leopard water cooled extreme omg machine
<snap-l> Reminder: Meeting tonight
<tjagoda> brousch: descentos.com
<tjagoda> erh
<tjagoda> brousch: www.descentos.com
<tjagoda> It's attempting to modernize Gnome2.2
<brousch> bah
<brousch> just use kde
<Blazeix> or xfce
<brousch> there are what, 3 different things trying to fork gnome2 now?
<Blazeix> are ther any successful ones? the only other one I've heard of is Mate
<Blazeix> which seems kind of dead
<tjagoda> Believe in the gnome of yesteryear, brousch!
<snap-l> god, I hate Windows.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-02-25
<derekv> Aren't they doing any hiring around that stuff?
<rick_h_> on the phone stuff? I'm not sure. We're kept pretty seperate
<rick_h_> would just be whatever is on the online jobs listing
<snap-l> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/9058804/stomp.mp3
<snap-l> TOok some samples from a record that i recorded for a co-worker
<derekv> i keep finding laptop ram
<snap-l> Wis it old laptop ram?
<snap-l> derekv:
<snap-l> derekv: If it's PC133 144 Pin and you don't need it, let me know, please. :)
<derekv> I pretty much started throwing away anything that old
<derekv> I'll let you know if I see anything
<derekv> its all so-dimm
<snap-l> Hmm.
<snap-l> Yeah, if you find anything liek that, let me know. My printer takes that memory.
<rick_h_> boooooo http://r.bmark.us/u/741a605f4eb6bd and morning
<snap-l> rick_h_: Well that was uneventful
<rick_h_> snap-l: ?
<rick_h_> dammit, two spaces FML
<snap-l> rick_h_: re: the webos tenure at HP
<snap-l> brb
<rick_h_> ah
<brousch> Good blog post on Make http://bost.ocks.org/mike/make/
<brousch> I had not been using it like that
<rick_h_> brousch: like what? automating things?
<brousch> I use it to automate, but as a series of commands. I haven't used starting with missing or changed files
<rick_h_> ah, yea the missing/changed files is what makes it best
<rick_h_> rebuild your css files only if the .sass file has changed or the .css file is missing
<brousch> You use sass?
<rick_h_> yea, bookie is sass. New work project is less though
<rick_h_> https://github.com/mitechie/Bookie/blob/develop/bookie/static/css/readable.scss
<brousch> It always feels like overkill when I start a project, then I get half way into it and think, "Damn, I wish I had Sass now"
<rick_h_> heh, yea. Definitely one of those 'just use it'
<snap-l> Hopefully the new Leopold will be arriving today.
<snap-l> At least this time it says it's on a truck.
<rick_h_> that's a good sign
<snap-l> Yeah. I'm taking a risk and using the keyboard from home here at work
<snap-l> going to use the new keyboard at home.
<rick_h_> cool
<snap-l> http://metal-libre.org/2013/02/metal-libre-org-origins.html
<snap-l> Metal music compilation
 * rick_h_ wants usb3 for the touareg. Idling in the driveway for 2hrs sucks
<snap-l> ?
<snap-l> Copying things to the internal drive?
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> 9 more GB of music today
<rick_h_> after 4GB yesterday
<rick_h_> have to burn dvds and then copy off the dvds
<snap-l> Ugh
<rick_h_> so takes forever to write the dvd, then another foreven with the car running in the driveway while it copies over
<snap-l> At least it can read DVDs
<rick_h_> but once it's loaded can use voice to play albums vs pulling out the phone and hoping I've got a decent mobile connection
<rick_h_> yea, it can also do sdcards and I wonder if that would be faster, but I don't have one any more. Only sdcard adapters
<snap-l> I have an SD card adapter for micro SD
<snap-l> and some microSD cards
<snap-l> LMK if you want me to bring 'em to CHC
<rick_h_> naw, I've ordered a 64GB sd card to use in the future for things
<snap-l> I have the monster 32GB card that JoDee had in her HTC
<snap-l> Will that show before Wed night?
<rick_h_> yea, tomorrow hopefully
<snap-l> kk
<rick_h_> but once I get done with these 3 dvds I'll be done for now
<brousch> You don't own a SD Card?
<brousch> I have about 10 of them
<snap-l> Too bad +1s on a comment can't be traded in for anything useful. I got +23 on a comment in an IDE thread for "just use vim"
<rick_h_> https://twitter.com/mortice/status/306055627350896640 lol
<snap-l> How they know?
<jrwren> snap-l: got any microSD cards you don't want or need?
<jrwren> i only had 1 SD card for my camera. Then I got a raspberry pi and an mk802 :(
<brousch> jrwren: How's your mk802? I have the Plus
<jrwren> i have not used it much.
<jrwren> android on it sucks.
<snap-l> jrwren: Unfortunately not at the moment
<jrwren> the wifi on it really sucks.
<jrwren> getting linux onto it was nontrivial and I've not invested the time to revisit
<snap-l> I do have a 16MB SD card if someone wants it. :)
<jrwren> a little too small for linux.
<jrwren> i have a 64MB :)
<snap-l> Came with my camera
<brousch> I thought the Android was OK. I was mostly using it for Netflix
<snap-l> I think it would have been better had they just put in a slug
<jrwren> i don't do netflix. although it would be fine for that.
<jrwren> lack of good remote is a problem for me with mk802
<brousch> Sucks that the droidmote thing wasn't in the kernel
<rick_h_> everyone ready for snow tomorrow! wheeee 6+" come on
<jrwren> and i'd need another android device for that.
<jrwren> i don't have another android device
<snap-l> rick_h_: Don't remind me
<snap-l> Have a board meeting tomorrow
<brousch> jrwren: As for Linux, this seems really easy to me https://www.miniand.com/forums/forums/development/topics/install-ubuntu-linux-12-04-now-including-droidmote
<snap-l> Does it use LIRC?
<jrwren> brousch: sweet, thanks for that.
<jrwren> brousch: right, but I need ANOTHER android device to control it. i don' thave that.
<brousch> Then you're doing life wrong!
<jrwren> exactly.
<jrwren> android sucks and I shouldn't have bought it.
<jrwren> but I'll get linux on it, and it will be awesome.
<dzho> linux is just a kernel
<dzho> and android runs it
<jrwren> bullshit.
<jrwren> or rather: yes, I know, and android is one of the shitties linuxes I've ever used.
<dzho> haha
<dzho> thank you
<jrwren> yw
<dzho> I pretty much agree.
<jrwren> apple's iOS has a nicer userspace than android
<jrwren> and its not linux.
<jrwren> i really hope ubuntu phone/tab destroy's android.
<jrwren> its technically superior 100X :)
<dzho> the way I'm beginning to think about it is that linux can never succeed in the consumer market because if it does, no one will call it linux.
<dzho> on the one hand, the consumers who don't give a shit won't call it linux because they don't care.
<rick_h_>  /me holds back from the android is not linux rant...
<dzho> on the other hand, the people who love linux won't call it linux because it doesn't have that late 20th century BDSM feel.
<dzho> we're finally to the point where, once again, RMS is right, though not necessarily for all the reasons he or anyone used to fight about.
<dzho> the bit about the name is a distraction.
<dzho> I think it's very defensible to use "linux" as a figure-of-speech for the whole magilla.
<dzho> so, that's not what I'm talking about, in case that gets anyone's hackles up.
<snap-l> Frankly, I couldn't care less what you call it; as long as it has a GNU toolchain and a UNIX-like OS, I'm happy.
 * dzho nods at snap-l 
<jrwren> snap-l: which android definitely does not.
<dzho> quite right.
<dzho> denying it is linux though ignores the fact that android-like considerations are leaking over into the mailine kernel.
<snap-l> jrwren: I thought it used busybox under the hood?
<brousch> But Ubuntu tablet is running Cyanogenmod
<dzho> snap-l: it's call toolbox, and it is deliberately not busybox, because busybox is GPL
<snap-l> Ah
<brousch> You can install busybox
 * dzho sees snap-l should have gone to Mike Kasick's talk at OLF2012 ;-)
<jrwren> snap-l: it might, but its not gnu libc. its not gnu coreutils and its not anywhere close to DFGL or any other fs layout i've seen
<dzho> brousch: you can install lots of different busyboxen
<snap-l> dzho: Was busy personing a booth. ;)
<jrwren> the "
<jrwren> the "android-like considerations" leaking into mainline kernel is usually great. I love better power management
<dzho> jrwren: so, you're a fan of the Poettering project?
<jrwren> never heard of it
<dzho> I guess not strictly in-the-kernel as I thought.
<dzho> I'm sort of conflating this http://bsd.slashdot.org/story/11/07/16/0020243/lennart-poettering-bsd-isnt-relevant-anymore  and http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/GNOME-developers-plan-Linux-apps-1798691.html
<dzho> the common theme there more being GNOME and what I'm guessing are their Android inferiority complex
<dzho> jrwren: it's funny, though, there's no mention of GNOME at all in http://www.kroah.com/log/linux/af_bus.html
<rick_h_> snap-l: so there, now completed loading 3dvds of music
<rick_h_> just about an hour per disk lol
<snap-l> http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/02/javas-latest-security-problems-new-flaw-identified-old-one-attacked
<snap-l> rick_h_: Awesome.
<greg-g> sprinting sprinting sprinting
<rick_h_> greg-g: sprint!
<greg-g> rick_h_: 2nd week onboard and it's an all hands in the office for ops/platform
<greg-g> I HAVE SO MUCH TO LEARN!
<greg-g> E_TOO_MUCH_TO_LEARN
<rick_h_> greg-g: good, you won't be bored
<rick_h_> if you're not swimming over your head just quit :P
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> Keyboard delivered. Yay!
<snap-l> Now I can also get rid of these damn Windows keys. :)
<greg-g> snap-l: what'd you get?
<snap-l> Leopold Cherry Black
<snap-l> also 2 sets of the blank Windows keys
<jrwren> LSB is what I was trying to think of.
<jrwren> android is NOT LSB
<snap-l> Yay, new keyboard. :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-02-26
<rick_h_>  snap-l woot!
<snap-l> Yeah, happy happy.
<snap-l> Yay Ceph Talk for March MUG Meeting
<rick_h_> woot
<greg-g> cool, we're making use of Ceph here
<greg-g> you know, it feels good to work for a legit tech company now ;)
<snap-l> Heh
<snap-l> AS opposed to "OMG, please don't screw things up or we'll be screwed"?
<greg-g> basically, and more :)
<jrwren> what you using ceph for?
 * greg-g shrugs
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> jrwren: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Media_storage
<jrwren> ty
<jrwren> so only media files.
<jrwren> damn, was hoping for everything :)
<snap-l> heh
<rick_h_> morning
<snap-l> mornng
<rick_h_> got the shovels out and ready
<rick_h_> come on snow!!!!
<rick_h_> that radar looks pretty with all those colors :P
<rick_h_> bah, sounds like it's moved to later in the day
<snap-l> Again: I have a board meeting. The later the better. :)
<jrwren> anyone have thoughts on how libvirt and ganeti fit together? or don't they? are they competing? complementary?
<jrwren> nvm. ganeti is google's non-libvirt
<rick_h_> yea, not really read much on ganeti but looking now it seems competing to an extent
<jrwren> just saw it referenced in that how we use ceph post by jcastro
<jcastro> do they use ganeti?
<jcastro> jrwren: I am lunching with sellers this week yo
<jrwren> they support it.
<jrwren> ganeti can point directly to rados for storage.
<jrwren> http://ceph.com/community/ceph-comes-to-synnefo-and-ganeti/  linked from your http://ceph.com/dev-notes/deploying-ceph-with-juju/
<jrwren> !!! Have fun with Sellers.
<jrwren> make him wine you and dine you :)
<jcastro> oh, in the intro
<jcastro> I totally missed that link
<snap-l> jcastro: Did you see on G+ that we're having Patrick McGarry talk about Ceph in March?
<snap-l> Apparently he'll be doing a demo using something called "Juju"
<jrwren> lol
<rick_h_> hah
<snap-l> I swear, people must think we have verbal ticks whenever we have conversations
<snap-l> "ceph comes to synneinfo an ganeti using juju deploy"
<snap-l> berp de derp derp
<jcastro> hah yeah
<jrwren> ceph could be wonderful.
<jrwren> a radosgw s3 bridge could be sweet which mirrors your radosgw content to s3.
<jrwren> although I guess you could do that app level easily enough
<rick_h_> very cool, pushing Go to the limits and cool to see A2 hosting on there as signed on to support it http://r.bmark.us/u/17752200544930
<snap-l> Nice!
<snap-l> x10Hosting <- Wonder if that's web over powerlines.
<snap-l> hey turn a04 on
<snap-l> heyu, rather
<jcastro> rick_h_: man, railgun looks badass
<jcastro> rick_h_: filed a bug on it for a charm
<jrwren>  the CSP v. threaded C++ comment shows a fundamental lack of understanding by either the code author, or the article author
<greg-g> man, bugzilla is annoying
<greg-g> I can't believe I'm going to say it, but, LP spoiled me :)
<snap-l> Bugzilla is when you care more about reporting than filing bugs
<snap-l> And dare I say it: more than fixing bugs. *cough*
<greg-g> or getting bugs backported to a specific release, apparently
<greg-g> fucking tags and shit
<snap-l> Yeah, Bugzilla reminded me of the IT forms from Ford under Remedy
<snap-l> Lots of fields that may or may not apply, but supported one workflow that (god help you) you better follow or bad juju occurs.
<greg-g> yeah
<jrwren> zomg Remedy
<greg-g> and you have to remember so much...
 * jrwren has flashbackes
<snap-l> jrwren: Supported some of the patches that Ford did to that system using Perl.
<jrwren> i only had to use it.
<jrwren> that was bad enough
<rick_h_> 50% off http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920027072.do
<rick_h_> shuttleworth on stage http://www.mobileworldlive.com/mobile-world-live-tv-live-stream
<snap-l> I want this guys hair
<rick_h_> http://www.weather.com/weather/map/interactive/48346:4?interactiveMapLayer=radar&baseMap=r&zoom=7 lol, ever feel like a wave is coming at you?
<snap-l> Not looking forward to this.
<jcastro> hah yeah
<jcastro> it's raining here right now
<rick_h_> yea, it's showing 33 here, hoping we get just full snow
<rick_h_> but sounds like rain for a couple of hours until it turns to snow :(
<snap-l> Yeah, that's how it's supposed to start
<snap-l> so it'll be a nice wet sheet to freeze under a pile of snow
<rick_h_> yea, nothing like a solid ice base layer to help out the shoveling later
<jcastro> hah yeah
<jrwren> any reprepro users?
<snap-l> jrwren: No. What's that?
<jrwren> very nice repo mirror tool
<jrwren> but i can't figure quite how to get it to filter the way I want.
<rick_h_> no, when I did a deb mirror I just did full deb mirror
<jrwren> I want an ubuntu mirror minus x11,games,video,kde,gnome Sections
<jrwren> and then I'd also like to filter some packages out too
<jcastro> have you seen ubumirror in the archive?
<jrwren> no
<jcastro> https://launchpad.net/ubumirror
<jcastro> I don't know the specifics, but I would start there
<jcastro> or just set up a proxy and you'd only ever mirror on demand
<jrwren> thanks.
<snap-l> jcastro: BTW: Oakland's mirror is behind
<snap-l> severely.
<jrwren> in the proxy case, I'm worried about stale things getting deleted that I actually want to keep around
<jrwren> yeah, ubumirror is not what I want.
<jrwren> no partial support
<rick_h_> what's the use case? I tried the 'mirror what I use' but then it's basically always slow when I use it since i'm not loading 100 machines with the same package sets
<jrwren> use case is datacenter with lots of ubuntu servers.
<jrwren> and I don't want to waste space
<rick_h_> meh, in a DC, how much space are you talking?
<jrwren> i mean really, I don't want terabytes of gnome/kde stuff when I'll always be server only
<snap-l> jrwren: What's the climate for creating an official mirror?
<jrwren> we don't have bandwidth to spare
<rick_h_> jrwren: all 64bit?
<jrwren> yes, all 64bit
<jrwren> only amd64/main
<rick_h_> I wonder how big it is. I just find something saying full mirror was around 248GB, but I bet that's both 32/64bit
<jrwren> even if I only save 1/4 of that, it is worth it IMO. for moving the VM around, backup, etc.
<rick_h_> yea, gotcha. I'm just the guy that mirrors all of pypi so wrong guy to talk to.
<jrwren> rofl.
<jrwren> that shit is NUTS
<rick_h_> it's 30GB, who cares. pip install anything on the airplane ftw :)
<snap-l> jrwren: Let me introduce you to rick_h_, who never does anything by halves.
<jrwren> pypi mirror is that small?
<rick_h_> hmm, up to 45gb right now
<jrwren> still, that is small enough, we should really have one here.
<rick_h_> on my disk
<rick_h_> yea, <3 it
<rick_h_> plus when someone does something stupid like remove an old .tar.gz I pull it out of my repo anyway bwuhahahahaha
<snap-l> jrwren: yeah, all of the real code is on github. They just put stubs in there to do curl.
<snap-l> Oh wait, that's Ruby.
<rick_h_> yea, those packages need to diaf
<jrwren> mirror github
<rick_h_> now you're talking
<snap-l> git clone github
<rick_h_> tar czf github.tar.gz git://
<jcastro> jrwren: a full mirror isn't as big as you'd think
<jcastro> it's like, way under a TB
<jcastro> iirc at OU it was like 300GB and we were carrying i386 and a bunch of other crap
<rick_h_> right, that's what I mean. set aside 500GB and just always have everythign you need and pull the internet plug without worry
<jcastro> though, I prefer to just run squid-deb-proxy and set an apt config (though probably without zeroconf in a server setting)
<rick_h_> nothing worse than needing one thing that's not in the bucket when you need it
<jcastro> yeah, but in a server setting you have the machines cronning the updates
<jcastro> you only need one machine to go before yours.
<jcastro> though that doesn't help when you want like 34503984GB of eclipse and no one else has done that yet
<jcastro> but IME, the machine after the first kickstart sucks, after that, it's mostly good
<jrwren> we have a list of concerns a mile long when it comes to this.
<jrwren> we know what we want. we aren't sure best way to get it.
<jcastro> are you coming to lunch?
<jcastro> wait, you work with sellers right?
<jrwren> yes.
<jrwren> he didn't invite me, so I guess not.
<jcastro> lol
<rick_h_> man, this is actually kind of interestnig to listen to these three discuss the phone platforms
<rick_h_> err, interesting
<rick_h_> I keep thinking I'll just turn it off...but nope
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> I know
<jrwren> for the record, reprepro is awesome. I needed to learn that , is the and operator in the stupid deb selection language
<jrwren> | and , instead of | and &. strange at first, but i'll admit it isn't bad
<rick_h_> coolio
<rick_h_> love it when taking 20min to tinker pays off
<rick_h_> jcastro: gotta say Mark wins the keyword wars. Afterwards everyone is using his phrasing "lustful experiences..." lol
<jcastro> hah
<jcastro> the commenters are right though
<jcastro> a bunch of things left unanswered, etc.
<rick_h_> yep, but I think some of that comes to the platforms 'secret sauce'
<jrwren> why does open source need secret sauce?
<rick_h_> but I love how Mark is like "our research shows..." and the firefox lady is "well our research shows"
<rick_h_> jrwren: because they're products in the process of defining, not everythign is set/done yet
<jrwren> i'm just really glad we are finally getting some good alternatives.
<jcastro> my research shows I am sick of shitty phones
<jrwren> ios and android are too closed and suck.
<jcastro> and I want a good alternative
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> lol weather rss ftw: Current Conditions : ..., Light Ice Pellets
<snap-l> Ugh
<jrwren> me at work: "is that a 10Gig switch"   :)   got a cool answer.
<jrwren> and damn if we won't be going fast as hell with that thing
<rick_h_> very cool
<greg-g> No more in-person UDSs? wow
<dzho> oh?
<rick_h_> greg-g: nope, hangouts ftw
<greg-g> snap-l: you on community-announce list? if so, plz forward to -us-mi list
<greg-g> rick_h_: or ftl, to be determined :)
<greg-g> rick_h_: will there still be Canonical "all hands" (for some definition of "all") in the future?
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, definitely. Meant more cool that hangouts have come along
<jcastro> greg-g: there will be team sprints still
<rick_h_> greg-g: I'm not sure. I know there are still sprints, but not sure about a real all hands like that.
<greg-g> yeah, we use em here a lot for meetings, but hose are mostly 2-5 people
<jcastro> but we haven't had a full all hands since Spain
<greg-g> gotcha
<greg-g> oh, really? huh
<greg-g> good to know
<jcastro> G+ every 3 months instead
<jcastro> so we'll be more agile too
<greg-g> cool
<greg-g> bbiab, lunch meeting
<snap-l> greg-g: Oh nuts... I think I deleted that. :)
<snap-l> Just forwarded.
<snap-l> This is awesome
<snap-l> ALthough there go my dreams of ever being a part of the Ubuntu all-stars
<snap-l> Les Sob
<rick_h_> heh, well at least I made 3 days of a UDS before they were killed off
<snap-l> It makes more sense, honestly
<snap-l> It'll be interesting to see how the Global Jam works out this weekend
<dzho> nice way to get google in there are essential infrastructure
<dzho> s/are/as/
<snap-l> Would you prefer Skype? :)
<dzho> heh
<rick_h_> no multi user video on skype for linux :(
<snap-l> rick_h_: Snark begets snark. :)
<rick_h_> :P
<rick_h_> snap-l: no snow yet :(
<widox> lovely freezing rain here :-/
<jrwren> assuming the output of this command is correct, I'll have an 8.5GB mirror :)
<jrwren> reprepro -V --noskipold checkupdate | grep ^Size | awk '{sum+=$2}END{print sum}'
<jrwren> no java, no kde, no gnome, no qt, no gtk, no games, no sound, no tex, no video, no x11 makes for a small ubunt u:)
<jrwren> hell, I could fit it on a DL DVD
<jrwren> tempting :)
<rick_h_> I remember when I would install debian from their little 50mb cd
<rick_h_> used to love that
<jrwren> yup
<jrwren> or netinst from 2 floppy boot
<jrwren> LLOVED that
<dzho> rootboot, huzzah
<jrwren> kernel on 1 floppy, root/inst on second floppy - and the rest from net :)
<jrwren> which is not much diffent from todays pxe & minimal boot insts
<jrwren> oh yeah, no libreoffice or openoffice, those are large.
<snap-l> I remember when it was all Slackware diskettes as far as the eye could see
<snap-l> network installs and upgrades were for weenies.
<jrwren> that was never true
<rick_h_> pixel reviews...man if my wife's EMR worked on Chrome I'd have gotten this vs the thinkpad for her I think http://r.bmark.us/u/26761b11b86272
<rick_h_> kind of cool, can read with the 'publisher font' on the kindle night light' so reading python cookbook with oreilly font choice.
<greg-g> so not happy with this Dell XPS 13
<jcastro> what? you went non thinkpad?
<greg-g> yeah, not happy (work laptop)
<greg-g> I didn't really have a choice
<jcastro> nod
<jcastro> I mean, theoretically you'd think it'd be awesome
<greg-g> blegh, if I wanted to have a Macbook Air but couldn't afford it, or something
<rick_h_> greg-g: :(
<rick_h_> the trifecta is complete. rain to ice to snow
<greg-g> yum
<jcastro> hey greg-g what's your tldr on this thing? https://gitorious.org/copyleft-next/copyleft-next/blobs/raw/master/Releases/copyleft-next-0.2.0
<jcastro> ever hear of it?
<greg-g> hahaha
<greg-g> so, fontana (red hat lawyer, persistent instigator of bkuhn) is drafting an updated copyleft license for reasons that are opaque.
<greg-g> theories:
<greg-g> 1) license as art, especially the repurcussions/discussions around it with especially bkuhn
<greg-g> 2) legitamately address nagging legal issues with copyleft licesnses (esp GPL)
<greg-g> 3) something else
<greg-g> jcastro: ^
<greg-g> I follow him on identi.ca, and the discussions are hilarious
<greg-g> he's always trolling bkuhn, and tagging his posts #notatroll or #trulynotatroll
<greg-g> so good, comedy gold
<greg-g> he trolls bkuhn so well because they, I believe, are actually pretty good friends in real life
<rick_h_> sweet, fun drive to go pick up the wife from work. I'll be back out later. Nice and slick.
<jcastro> greg-g: ok so they want a session @ UDS to discuss this license for ubuntu developers
<jcastro> I'm thinking this is a waste of time
<greg-g> jcastro: lol, saw that on identi.ca
<greg-g> jcastro: license development that are strictly OSI approved/approvable shouldn't be a concern of Ubuntu, right
<jcastro> this doesn't even look real
<greg-g> jcastro: real as in?
<jcastro> this whole thing
<jcastro> looks like satire to me
<greg-g> jcastro: right, option 1
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> I think it's just trolling, personally
<snap-l> Anytime I've ever engaged with Fontana, I have a hard time figuring out if he's trolling me, or if he's being serious
<jcastro> well then, he can go through the normal submission process, shrug
<snap-l> Speaking of performance as art: http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/199fuq/falcon_pro_developer_increases_app_price_to_13213/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-02-27
<rick_h_> woot, that was a nice ride out and about.
<rick_h_> snap-l: you get back from the meeting ok?
<snap-l> rick_h_: Didn't go
<rick_h_> snap-l: bummer
<snap-l> Yeah, no worries.
<rick_h_> phew, driveway clean. This is some heavy stuff. Will make a good snowman
<snap-l> Yeah, it's the perfect sibling snowball weather
<rick_h_> hah, time to teach the boy some life lessons :P
<brousch> Ut oh
<brousch> Many people were stuck on my street. Those with balding tires or RWD vehicles
<brousch> $73 for a shovel?
<rick_h_> brousch: not a shovel, a snow pusher!
<rick_h_> <3 this thing
<rick_h_> much faster doing the driveway this year
<brousch> I don't need to push. I need to lift and throw!
<rick_h_> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000A28780/ref=wms_ohs_product?ie=UTF8&psc=1 is my lift/thrower
<rick_h_> push to the sides, then trim work with that
<rick_h_> much nicer
<snap-l> Well, the cat has given me the best reason for keeping inbox zero
<brousch> It's so flat
<snap-l> she just stole a receipt and ran off
<rick_h_> snap-l: she delete something for you?
<rick_h_> lol
<brousch> I'm thinking about a big old scoop, but it seems like it'd be hard to throw http://www.amazon.com/Suncast-SF1850-22-Inch-Scoop-Shovel/dp/B000A1CENK/
<brousch> Have to shove the handle under my stomach and lift with both arms equally
<rick_h_> yea, use that to clear it to the sides and then use a smaller shovel to actually edge
<brousch> You and your darn right tool for the job :P
<rick_h_> hah
<brousch> What I really need to do is fix my snowblower
<brousch> Although it would have clogged instantly today
<rick_h_> heh, yea I don't have one of those so I spend $$ on the right shovels to use
<brousch> My snow blower is literally older than I am
<brousch> 1973
<snap-l> brousch: Might be time to either let it go, or get it fixed.
<snap-l> Letting go might be an option
<brousch> It's just a gas tank leak
<brousch> It broke last year and with almost no snow I just let it sit
<rick_h_> yea, last year I think I shoveled once or something
<brousch> Django 1.5 is out! Are you guys pumped?!
<snap-l> Like a 1990s shoe
<brousch> I had a pair of those
<snap-l> I'm sure you did
<rick_h_> heh, it's out but py3 "is still considered beta"
<brousch> Even better, experimental!
<rick_h_> oh right
<rick_h_> sorry, read it last night
<snap-l> That's the kind of thinking that inspires confidence
<jrwren> i'm pumped about django 1.6
<jrwren> err... 1.5
<jrwren> not much changed.
<jrwren> streaming response looks good
<jrwren> now just needs streaming request
<brousch> rick_h_: I ran into a problem on your pastebin site https://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/snapshot19.png
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, too many links causes it to captcha and I'm missing some imagemagic lib or something
<brousch> OK
<rick_h_> just not bothered to get it working, end up using ubuntu pastebin or something
<brousch> No problem
<brousch> Geeker Django deprecated one of my favorite commands: reset <app>
<brousch> It would clear all data out of the database for that app. Now I have to clear the whole damn database or get the sql to flush one app and pipe it to a command line client for the DB (like psql)
<rick_h_> what?! learn to use your db tools?! never!
<rick_h_> :P
<brousch> That's not the point
<brousch> The command used the django settings, so it knew the database info (location, type, login, etc) and it knew which tables were in which app. It was simple. Now I have to manually specify all that crap
<brousch> Apparently my rage is 2.5 years too late to matter http://python.6.n6.nabble.com/reset-and-sqlreset-PendingDeprecationWarning-td507875.html
<snap-l> brousch: Probably becaus eone too many people cleaered out their databases by accident
<snap-l> "WHY DO WE HAVE SOMETHING IN OUR APP THAT WILL DESTROY DATA"
<brousch> Well it would only clear out single apps. The commands they recommend now clear the whole DB
<snap-l> Oh, that's even better.
<brousch> Much less convenient
<snap-l> But tidier
<snap-l> Think of it like a roomba for your database, but instead of a roomba, it's a quantum black hole.
<brousch> They say it didn't work well with DBs that have referential integrity. I can see that, but I only ever used it on sqlite in development
<snap-l> I think I'm getting an itch
<snap-l> No, wait, that's me wondering why thing ship with ways to delete the whole database
<snap-l> Admin is hard. Let's just DROP DATABASE
<brousch> It drops each table
<snap-l> for i in list_o_tables: DROP i
<snap-l> How very PHP
<snap-l> Grow a pair and just DROP DATABASE
<snap-l> ;)
<snap-l> You want referential integrity? Reference this.
<brousch> It was really very nice. When you have a dozen apps in your project and you're working on one of them it saved a lot of time to just reset the tables for that one app
<jrwren> anyone know where I can get libvirt built with esxi support? preferably a ppa
<snap-l> http://www.gremwell.com/node/155
<jrwren> brousch: its VERY easy to write a python script, load django settings and clear db for that app.
<brousch> Now I'll have to create fixtures for each app so I can rebuild in dev in under 40mins
<brousch> jrwren: But it already did that for me. now I have to do it myself!
<rick_h_> brousch: which you should be doing anyway
<rick_h_> re fixtures
<snap-l> jrwren: Google seems to have a lot of instructions on how, but not a lot of packages.
<snap-l> jrwren: VMWare doesn't ship with something?
<rick_h_> snap-l: that's what I was thinking. vmware costs $$ so you get pretty tools. Enjoy
<jrwren> snap-l: vmware vsphere client is windows only :(
<snap-l> Well, I'd think they'd have at least something to interface with libvirt
<jrwren> libvirt does, but apparently ubuntu doesn't build it - idiots
<snap-l> though I believe Virtualbox routes around that by doing their own thing
<jrwren> i'll just rebuild the package.
<jrwren> *sigh*
<snap-l> jrwren: Yeah, that's unfortunate
<snap-l> Oh, apparently there is something for Virtualbox
<snap-l> well I'll be.
<jrwren> freedom is missing from virtualbox
<snap-l> It's there as long as you don't use USB
<jrwren> it is?
<jrwren> freedom from the tyrany that is oracle?
<snap-l> https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Editions
<snap-l> Well, no, unfortunately Oracle still comes bundled
<rick_h_> jrwren: is https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-virt/+archive/ppa without?
<jrwren> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/raring/libvirt/raring/view/head:/debian/rules  is :(
<jrwren> i think those are since they are built from the ubuntu-virt package
<jrwren> rick_h_: those are also all 1yr+ old
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, bummer
<jrwren> thank you for looking and finding
<rick_h_> jrwren: figured someone must have one, but hard to tell of the tons of libvirt ppa and nothing that looks sane/official
<jrwren> right
<rick_h_> love USPS...sure, we got that package in IN on the 26th...but it'll take a week to get it to MI
<rick_h_> nothing like taking 7 days for a 3.5hr drive
<snap-l> rick_h_: I hate that
<snap-l> You paid for ground, we're damn well going to make sure you don't get it next day
<snap-l> Wait, that's not UPS.
<snap-l> Not sure why USPS woould take longer
<snap-l> Though if it's media rate, it takes a donkey-trail down some back roads to get anywhere.
<snap-l> Honestly, if you don't ship first class or priority, the USPS takes forever
<rick_h_> yea, media mail it looks like
<snap-l> Whenever I ship things, I'll usually eat the difference between media and first class
<snap-l> Saves me hassle
<snap-l> unless it's something like a brick of a book
<snap-l> Reminder: Ubuntu Global Jam is this weekend
<snap-l> starting Friday and going through Sunday
<greg-g> snap-l: is there an IRL version for us-mi?
<snap-l> No, this is totally online
<snap-l> Trying an experiment. :)
<snap-l> Hopefully it'll get more people participating who might otherwise not participate because they can't make the venue
<greg-g> snap-l: cool, I assume this is yet another example were Canonical is follow Ubuntu Michigan's lead ;)
<snap-l> I'd like to think so. :)
<snap-l> I know that's probably BS, but...
<jrwren> i've not been following raring much.
<snap-l> Me either
<jrwren> timing wise, does this mean its a good time to try an alpha install?
<snap-l> Usually, though usual caveats apply
<jrwren> of course
<jrwren> i'm thinking alpha must be soon
<jrwren> hrm, nope https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Cadence/Raring
<jrwren> is global bug jam earlier than in years past?
<snap-l> Actually, I'm remembering something about not doing alpha releases
<snap-l> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2013/02/14/13-04-raring-ringtail-alpha-2-released/
<snap-l> Nope, I'm remembering wrong
<jrwren> ah, ty.
<jrwren> http://www.ubuntu.com/testing linked from there is not up to date :(
<jrwren> seems like ubuntu is really falling apart these days.
<snap-l> I'm finding links mentioning the "no alpha releases"
<snap-l> but they're from places like PCWorld and Webupd8, so I question accuracy.
<snap-l> I think there's no blessed alpha release
<greg-g> :/
<brousch> http://lwn.net/Articles/522232/
<rick_h_> rolling baby
<snap-l> I thought it was just Canonical being evil. ;)
<snap-l> (That whole line of thinking drives me nuts)
<rick_h_> yea, that too. I think they must hate all users
<rick_h_> everyone, stop using the software...except it's cool and works so carry on
<greg-g> unless you want real GNOME :/
<rick_h_> but no one wants that :P
<brousch> Indeed
<jcastro> greg-g: UGR is well on its way to being official
<jcastro> maybe even this cycle
<rick_h_> ok, I can get a N10, but have to go to a walmart? hmmm...that's tough
<greg-g> jcastro: thank god, this multimonitor support is killing me
<snap-l> rick_h_: Are you shitting me?
<snap-l> One more reason to hate Walmart. :)
<snap-l> I'd pay for it in pennies soaked in dog piss
<snap-l> actually, it's not their employees fault
<jrwren> yes it is.
<jrwren> but not the employees we see there.
<jrwren> its execs and employees that set and practice corp policy
<jrwren> what is the difference between quantal-security adn quantal-updates repos?
<jrwren> nevermind https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Ubuntu#Updates_Tab
<jcastro> you only need need security
<jcastro> you can get by without -updates
<jrwren> *nod*
<jrwren> hrm, the esx support in libvirt deps libcurl, but I cannot imagine that is a good enough reason to exclude.
<jcastro> greg-g: hypothetically speaking ...
<jcastro> greg-g: what are the chances you can help me find someone willing to help us with the conversion of the content?
<jcastro> I have the script OpenStack used ...
<rick_h_> jcastro: coming out to CHC?
<jcastro> I can't even get out of the driveway dude
<rick_h_> what?!
<jcastro> dead serious
<jcastro> I've been going out every hour and shovelling
<rick_h_> come on, that AWD volvo won't get out?
<jcastro> jill's car isn't moving
<rick_h_> it's all warm and melting
<jcastro> and she couldn't make it into the garage last night
<jcastro> so I have a VW sized mountain I need to dig out
<rick_h_> hah
<jcastro> before the Volvo can rock
<snap-l> jcastro: Dude, what the hell?
<jcastro> dude, why am I being flamed? I'm the one being buried!
<rick_h_> we've all dug out!
<rick_h_> shoot, I dug out last night and went for a 45min joy ride while it almost done coming down :P
<rick_h_> and did a final round of clean up this morning before the wife left
<rick_h_> roads are clear around here. though going to need another car wash
<jrwren> first time through dpkg-buildpackage did stuff.
<jrwren> now i fixed something
<jrwren> and it complains that a file changed.
<jrwren> specifically dpkg-source complains
<jrwren> dpkg-source has a --commit
<jrwren> but I want oposite of that, can anyone tell me?
<jrwren> also, #thisiswhydebianishard
<jrwren> nevermind, just delete it :)
<greg-g> jcastro: hypothetically, maybe Ryan Lane, other than that not sure, honestly
<greg-g> gah, effing project sputnik laptop is a piece of shit, gimme my thinkpad back!
<jrwren> yay! i has esx vm list from virsh
<jrwren> boo: error: this function is not supported by the connection driver: virDomainOpenConsole
<rick_h_> jrwren: so close...
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, byol is the only way to roll
<greg-g> fucking eh, install the project sputnik special kernel from PPA to fix brightness issue, break touchpad scrolling, Thanks.
<jrwren> its ok, i don't really need console.
<jrwren> just up/down should suffice
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-02-28
<rick_h_android> woot
<brousch> waat?
<rick_h_android> got irc on the nexus 10
<rick_h_android> so party
<brousch> You got a nexus10?
<brousch> You braved Walmart?
<rick_h_> yea, braved walmark
<rick_h_> survived, just barely
<brousch> I need to go buy a dang shovel tonight
<brousch> Plow left a wall of crap in my driveway again
<rick_h_android> yea and shovel out jcastro
<brousch> Anyone we know get blown up? http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/se_mich/royal-oak-house-explosion-022713
<rick_h_android> lmorchard says it's by him.
<snap-l> IT's across from the coffee shop
<rick_h_android> orly?
<jrwren> put ubuntu tablet on it?
<Blazeix> mathomastech: hi
<rick_h_> mathomastech: party
<Blazeix> :'(
<snap-l> Hellllllllllo
<marc2> Yo
<rick_h_> be aware! ... mathomastech
<snap-l> http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#userregistration
<snap-l> Hey, I'd like to know a little bit about the history of the universe. Can anyone give me an example or two?
<rick_h_> snapl...
<rick_h_> and that concludes the history of the universe
<Blazeix> lesson one:
<rick_h_> hope that helps, thanks for coming to the channel
 * Blazeix slaps snap-l
<Blazeix> the univerise is cruel
<mathomastech> Blazeix: foo
<snap-l> mathomastech: Bar
<snap-l> bar
<rick_h_> mathomastech: http://uploads.mitechie.com/awesome.png
<brousch> "Rick Harding is a dangerous man. Sure, he may look like a harmless developer ..."
<brousch> I'm gonna have to disagree with you there. He has a large, bald head and a goatee. He looks like an evil mastermind
<brousch> And with that, I bid you good night
<snap-l> hehehehehehe
<rick_h_> brousch: lol
<rick_h_> morning
<brousch> ayup
<snap-l> Morning again. :)
<brousch> ayup
<mathomastech> Sure is. Hi-ho hi-ho. Off to work we go.
<snap-l> Yay, new Virtualbox and a new extension download
<snap-l> And I think  they fucked something up
<rick_h_> doh
<snap-l> giving it my password, and it's complaining it can't use it
<snap-l> At least it'll still run with the old one, so that's a plus
<rick_h_> snap-l: speaking of B&N http://r.bmark.us/u/9466d3ab2146b4 and that includes the holiday season
<snap-l> rick_h_: I knew I didn't want to click on that link
<snap-l> They need to concentrate on their digital sales, and getting more inventory in stores
<snap-l> This whole "order and we'll ship to the store" is OK for some folks, but it misses the mark
<jrwren_> there is nothing "yay" about a new oracle product.
<rick_h_> ok, linkedin has jumped..."Richard, see the best advice Martha Stewart ever got"
<rick_h_> w...t...f
<snap-l> Unless she's asking you personally to tell her to get fucked, I'm not sure what the best advice she could give would be?
<snap-l> And yes, LinkedIn can also get stuffed
<jrwren_> linkedin has sucks for much longer than just today forwrard.
<snap-l> jrwren_: I deleted my account
<jrwren_> can you do that?
<snap-l> Yeah, they have a process
<jrwren_> kinda like FB, I keep mine just so I can message certain people.
<snap-l> whether it actually deletes it is another thing
<snap-l> Y'know, if I can't figure out how to get a hold of you without using some service, then perhaps we need to rethink our relationship
<snap-l> I hung onto AIM for way too long because there were three people that I barely talked to on there
<slestak> anyone done any research on salt or ansible?  Been looking at both.
<snap-l> finally I messaged every one of them prior to deleting my account
<snap-l> salt can harden your arteries, so I've been told. ;)
<slestak> but it adds flavor to life...
<rick_h_> slestak: know some people using salt, not looked at ansible
<snap-l> context?
<rick_h_> puppet alternatives
<snap-l> ah
<rick_h_> or puppet-like alternatives
<slestak> i am lookign for sth for deploying a small set of apps in a few configurations to various customers.  salt looks like it woul dbe great for managing many internal servers
<rick_h_> http://docs.saltstack.org/en/latest/topics/index.html
<jrwren_> i knew salt sounded familiar
<snap-l> So we're looking for ways to make things completely ungoogleable
<jrwren_> for app deployment? why not fabric?
<slestak> not sure about my use case
<slestak> fabric is in my list
<snap-l> slestak: Do you want the ability to deploy or update?
<snap-l> or both?
<slestak> just deploy
<jrwren_> i've always viewed puppet as more of a system level cmdb, like that old confdb in perl, wtf was it called
<snap-l> so once this code is deployed, you'll rebuild the machine to redeploy? :)
<slestak> i have seen descriptions of salt as (chef || puppet) + fabric + python
<jrwren_> slestak: interesting!
<slestak> the developer is very active on g+ with weekly hangouts.  lots of good info out there
<snap-l> http://saltstack.com/products.html <- I hate this.
<slestak> updates will be managed onsite with existong methods
<slestak> we are just trying to straighten up initial deployment
<snap-l> This gives me bulletpoint, but doesn't tell me how to use it
<jrwren_> snap-l: but there are 4 columns! ITS ENTERPRISEY!
<brousch> snap-l: http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/getting-started-salt-stack-other-configuration-management-system-built-python
<slestak> i saw that.
<slestak> i know either salt or ansible will be my recommendation.  ansible has the benefit that it can use 0mq or ssh as a transport
<slestak> both are python
<jrwren_> cfengine is what I was trying to think of.
<jrwren_> salt sounds like a good choice. that said, I've found fabric to be simple and awesome.
<snap-l> brousch: Yeah, that would a great thing... FOR THE SITE. :)
<slestak> i think im going to recommend ansible
<slestak> less dependencies
<slestak> has ssh transport
<slestak> talked to the ansible and salt people.  i think ansible is def the choice.  the fellow that wrote ansible is the same guy behind func and has worked on puppet
<rick_h_> <3 https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2013-February/036537.html
<rick_h_> I can have Debian Ubuntu please!
<snap-l> http://decafbad.net/2013/02/27/mechanical-keyboards-or-youre-typing-it-wrong <- Keyboard discussion in comments
<greg-g> OH YIPPEE! KEYBOARD DISCUSSION IN COMMENTS!
<snap-l> greg-g: Heh
 * greg-g actually cares about keyboards, just, you know, sounds funny ;)
<greg-g> which is why I hate this new dell xps, the keyboard is basically a macbook air one :( :( :( :(
<snap-l> I actually liked the Macbook Air keyboard
<snap-l> and the Aluminum
<snap-l> It made no illusions of being a deep keyboard
<brousch> I was surprised how usable the Transformer Infinity keyboard is
<jjesse> whats wrong w/ the macbook ari keyboard?
<jjesse> i love the keyboard on mine
<jjesse> i'm just the idiot that can't spell
<snap-l> Ugh, the Air has the same scissor-spring shit that the Logitech ones did
<jjesse> its better than the Dell desktop the customer has me working on
<snap-l> yea, Dell really cheaped out
<snap-l> Their business laptops were OK
<snap-l> but over time they kept getting cheaper and cheaper and ...
<snap-l> "Who wants to race to the bottom?!?"
<greg-g> well: A) bad layout and B) just feels loose
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-03-01
<jjesse> herm i think i scrwed up putting a ubuntu image on my nexus 7
<jjesse> looks like i have a phone version of it some how
<jjesse> plus it looks like there are some phone messages on it
<jjesse> is there a good link for a fresh install of ubuntu for nexus 7?  it looks like the one i got from a ubuntu site has all kinds of personal information on it
<jjesse> jcastro, might want to look at my G+ post i just made, seems like someone forgot to clean up some data before doing a build for Mobile World Congress
<jjesse> rick_h_android, do you know a lola chang?  i think she works at Canonical on the phone stuff
<jjesse> rick_h_android, see my G+ post
<jjesse> never mind looks like it was sample data
<snap-l> Good morning
<brousch> So far
<snap-l> we be jammin'
<rick_h_> crappy morning...how do people live without middle click?
 * rick_h_ is going to melt down and cry shortly
<snap-l> rick_h_: Foreign machine?
<rick_h_> snap-l: no, home docked laptop just no middle click this morning
<rick_h_> don't know wtf I did
<snap-l> oh that sucks
<brousch> I don't use middle click
<rick_h_> how do you live? I mean how do you open new tabs, paste content from terminals, open links from irc/terminals?
<rick_h_> middle click is the glue of the desktop
<brousch> Right-click, open in new tab; ctrl+shift+v
<brousch> irc is just a click since I use pidgin
<mathomastech> ctrl+t
<snap-l> Reminder: we're jamming this weekend
<snap-l> starting today, and going through Sunday evening
<rick_h_> woot, jamming
<snap-l> Blergh
<snap-l> Apparently my keyboard has a problem with the left arrow key.
<rick_h_> ruh roh
<snap-l> Yeah, not looking forward to waiting for a replacement.
<rick_h_> meh, arrow keys
<rick_h_> who needs em
<snap-l> I do
<snap-l> sorry, it's the right arrow key.
<snap-l> still a pain in the cock
<snap-l> Well, we'll see how their RMA process is.
<snap-l> Hoping it'll be "we ship you a new one, you ship yours back"
<snap-l> and not "you ship yours, wait a week, and we'll ship you another one when we've determined what the problem is"
<rick_h_> what you need to do is convince widox he wants the filco, then borrow his brown while you wait
<snap-l> hahaha
<widox> :o
<widox> snap-l: I hope you aren't using the arrow keys in vim!
<snap-l> 70 / 30 between hjkl and arrow keys
<rick_h_> nop the arrows ftw
<snap-l> They're there to be used. :)
<rick_h_> just like the scroll lock and pause keys :P
<snap-l> Just because you're not using the Pause key dowsn't mean I'm not. :)
<snap-l> (actually, I'm not.)
<jcastro> jjesse: link? I don't see a post about that
<jjesse> i deleted it
<jjesse> jcastro, the people in #ubuntu-touch delt w/ it
<jcastro> k
<snap-l> This Red Notebook looks interesting: http://rednotebook.sourceforge.net/downloads.html
<snap-l> It's definitely active.
<jcastro> rick_h_: man, colder today
<jcastro> was hoping to finish up the slush fest in my driveway
<rick_h_85> lol yeah hard to clean now
<rick_h_85> I cleaned up the last slush when it was wet yesterday
<rick_h_85> I do look forward to some windows down weather in ATL
<snap-l> Yeah, I'm done with this snow stuff
<snap-l> not looking forwad to the extreme heat, but would be nice to get some of the stink out of the house.
<widox> spacex launch in a few minutes, http://www.spacex.com/webcast/
<snap-l> unmanned rocket?
<snap-l> Ah, it's a resupply mssion
<widox> yeah, its a supply run
<snap-l> that's cool
<rick_h_> woot
<widox> I think they scheduled to do like 12 of them
<rick_h_> wish the boy was home, he loves counting down 'liftoff!' now
<snap-l> OMG, there's a OFO on the pad!
<snap-l> That's freaking amazing
<rick_h_> man that's a lot of rockets on that thing
<rick_h_> what's all this kilometer talk? :P
<snap-l> <3 that this thing is sending a signal in real time back to earth
<snap-l> Science is metric
<snap-l> We'll have none of this king's foot nonsense.
<rick_h_> I can't help but laugh at using the term 'down range' when the damn thing is heading to SPACE
<snap-l> Oh boy.
<widox> doh!
<widox> alien interception
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> I think this forum is getting pummeled
<jrwren_> I'm leaning toward riak - what are your thoughts?
<rick_h_> jrwren_: because xxx and yyy?
<snap-l> One thing about having a borked keyboard has taught me is to change over my default editing-modes to vi
<snap-l> brb
<snap-l> Let's see if this works.
<snap-l> Hm, apparently weechat doesn't support vi keybindings from .inputrc
<jrwren_> rick_h_: exactly, because XXX and YYY
<jrwren_> :)
<jrwren_> riak - because its built on lightning memory mapped db, and its distributed, replicated.
<jrwren_> although my ideal is the same thing more sql like - like google's spanner.
<jcastro> jrwren_: have you seen this yet
<jcastro> http://kkovacs.eu/cassandra-vs-mongodb-vs-couchdb-vs-redis
<jcastro> gives you a nice overview of all of them
<rick_h_>  escept riak :P
<rick_h_> except
<jrwren_> but I hate most of those.
<jrwren_> cassandra is JVM, so its out
<jrwren_> mongodb - because I want to lose all my data - the RAM limits are not what I want
<jrwren_> couchdb - maybe I do want couch, I should look at it a lot more.
<jrwren_> redis - same memory limits as mongo
<greg-g> jrwren_: what kind of memory limits are you running / will run itnnto with redis mongo?
<jrwren_> scalability, availability and fault-tolerance of riak is why I like
<jrwren_> although I don't knwo why this guys docs say riak is moving to google's leveldb
<jrwren_> AFAIK they are already on lightning
<snap-l> Just use PostgreSQL. :)
<jrwren_> no acceptable HA/fault tolerant solutions
<snap-l> It's postgresql. It's infallible
<snap-l> It's the pope of databases
<jrwren_> couchbase looks good too
<jrwren_> its postgresql, its old school, its old.
<jrwren_> yes, I know it works, I love it. I love postgresql.
<jrwren_> now, deploy postgresql in an environment where chaos monkey is running.
<jrwren_> solve that problem, and I'll run what you have.
<snap-l> http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.2/static/warm-standby-failover.html
<snap-l> http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.2/static/high-availability.html
<jrwren_> not acceptable
<jrwren_> go do that, run chaos monkey, tell me how it goes.
<greg-g> oh right, chaos monkey the thing
<greg-g> thought it was an idiom :)
<jrwren_> huh?
<snap-l> jrwren_: What's the problem of keeping a warm / hot standby for PostgreSQL?
<snap-l> Just have an automatic failover mechanism
<jrwren_> write that for me plz.
<jrwren_> and failback too
<jrwren_> not just 1 failover
<snap-l> https://github.com/2ndQuadrant/repmgr
<jrwren_> because 5 min later that monkey is going to kill what was your standby
<snap-l> so have several backup servers in a pool
<snap-l> and if the monkey can kill off every backup, then game over
<snap-l> even with nosql
<jrwren_> no, not "even with"
<jrwren_> its master master v. slave
<snap-l> if your monkey is good enough to follow the money and edestroy every single backup, then you're fucked
<jrwren_> you join another couchbase to the cluster and its just up.
<jrwren_> you can restart an instance
<jrwren_> but that instance has to come up appropriately.
<snap-l> nuclear bomb takes out michigan. No backups. Game over.
<jrwren_> my understanding of ALL postgresql failover solutions is that lots of human work is required to bring up that slave
<rick_h_> yea, pgsql failover isn't meant for cloud-levels of reliability
<jrwren_> besides that if I am running from nukes I have other worries.
<rick_h_> really, you put pgsql on the server that's old school rock solid failover galore
<jrwren_> its just not true - I can put riak in each ec2 zone, my DC here, and azure, all same cluster
<rick_h_> jrwren_: I know internally we've used cassandra and happy with it. I just don't know the use cases enough to compare vs riak. Never used it myself
<rick_h_> jrwren_: I have heard it compared some with tokyo cabinet more than things like mongo/etc
<snap-l> Haven't heard much about Tokyo Cabinet in the last few years
<rick_h_> yea, same here
<jrwren_> yeah.
<snap-l> http://fallabs.com/kyotocabinet/
<rick_h_> but not looked either
<snap-l> became Kyoto Cabinet
<jrwren_> riak is actually built on a more modern dbm.  tokyo is similar
<jrwren_> but its shit compared to lightning
<jrwren_> lightning claims riak uses lightning.
<jrwren_> kovacs page claims kiak uses leveldb
<jrwren_> its unclear to me
<rick_h_> lol
<jrwren_> especially given its erlang
<snap-l> fucking spaces in filenames need to fucking die in a fucking fire
<greg-g> :)
<slestak> tell us what you really think
<snap-l> Fire isn't good enough
<snap-l> Anyone else noticed their machine going out to lunch on prolonged disk activity?>
<snap-l> Seems anytime I do anything disk heavy my whole machine goes slow
<brousch> snap-l: SSD?
<snap-l> No
<snap-l> This is also an older machine
<brousch> Throw that junk away, man. It's an antique
<snap-l> I'll have you know it's my main desktop at home. :)
<snap-l> Never mind I can't remember when I built it. :)
<brousch> I get slowness when a mounted (network) drive is not available
<snap-l> Seems whenever I do heavy disk activity the whole thing just grinds down in a spiral of slow until things settle down
<brousch> Could be a sign of a dying disk
<snap-l> Yeah, i ran the smart surface test, but I might just toss SPINRITE in it just to be doubly sure
<brousch> Or a nearly-full disk
<snap-l> I think Elite Keryboards doesn't answer email on Fridays
<jrwren_> snap-l: you haven't learned to deal with spaces in filenames yet?
<jrwren_> given how long you've been using linux and unix, that is a bit sad really.
<snap-l> jrwren_: I forget everytime I have to do a for loop
<rick_h_> they're evil, that is all
<snap-l> because it's not how you'd think it would handle it
<snap-l> jrwren_: I know how to escape a space, thank you. :)
<snap-l> I know how to get find to do -print0 | xargs -0
<jrwren_> gnu find and exec + does it for you
<snap-l> but the genius part was it was a bunch of zip files with the same filenames inside that i had to preserve the directory structure
<jrwren_> xargs is obsolete with gnu find AFAIK
<jrwren_> ugh, i hate zip files and directory structures :)
<snap-l> so I was looking for  a way to create the directory name using basename and mkdir
<snap-l> but it was easier to use sftp to my local machine and just right click on them
<snap-l> created the directories just the way I like it
<snap-l> does it mean I lose some UNIX cred?
<snap-l> fuck off.
<snap-l> ;)
<jrwren_> nah, it doesn't.
<jrwren_> i experienced similar issue with scp just doay.
<jrwren_> just today
<jrwren_> but I know the rules, so I both quoted and escaped and things worked
<snap-l> Yeah, most of the time this stuff works
<snap-l> but when I have to do things in bulk with spaces, that's when things get weird
<snap-l> and it seems this company has spaces in spades
<greg-g> rick_h_: eneloop has colors?!?!?! http://arstechnica.com/science/2013/03/sodium-air-battery-shows-potential/
<rick_h_> greg-g: heh, when was the last time colors did anything on a battery. You just put the cover over it :P
<greg-g> but! Pretty!
<rick_h_> it's like having a pretty colored inner tube
<rick_h_> ooh pretty, now put the tire on over it
<rick_h_> http://www.airforums.com/ ... this can only end badly
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-03-02
<Wolfger> we be jammin'?
<snap-l> Wolfger: We be jammin alright
<gib> Jam jam jam jam jam jam
<snap-l> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/a46c57d9580d0332ac18408a37ef1a8afbab3ff1?authuser=0&hl=en
<snap-l> Hanging out in case someone wants to try this out
<snap-l> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/60476a705e4ccd9cb2b8e1ac67ac28cd971611d9?authuser=0&hl=en
<snap-l> Who joined?
<rick_h_> gib
<gib> Bye bye . . . .  .
<snap-l> laterness.
<jrwren_> i tried to hangout but I got a 400 on that url
<jrwren_> i'm gonna upgrade my system76 pangolin to 13.04 now :)
<rick_h_> party!
<snap-l> jrwren_: We pulled out of the hangout just after the "laterness"
<snap-l> Morning
<rick_h_droid> morning
<snap-l> jcastro: You up? :)
<jcastro> yep
<snap-l> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/615eada88ec32dfe2398f00087f1f54d4ec95fe5?authuser=0&hl=en
<snap-l> skip that kink
<snap-l> and that link too
<jcastro> ok rejoined you
<jcastro> impossible
<snap-l> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/615eada88ec32dfe2398f00087f1f54d4ec95fe5?authuser=0&hl=en
<snap-l> OK, really forget that link now. :)
<snap-l> Anyone in here btw?
<snap-l> Or did all of you bums forget. :)
<jjesse> i'm here
<jjesse> on irc
<jjesse> doing some updates of my box
<snap-l> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/stream/318b15d44ebfaf15e655a02fd85b1b94aa6b81ed?hl=en
<jjesse> but have to make breakfast for my wife and then need to figure out why my Nexus actually doesn't boot on the ubuntu touch
<snap-l> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/stream/318b15d44ebfaf15e655a02fd85b1b94aa6b81ed?hl=en
<snap-l> We be jammin'
<snap-l> http://youtu.be/U90HtkGoUpk
<jjesse> sorry i didn't get to "jam" with you guys today
<jjesse> busy satruday
<jrwren_> i'm just gettin started
<jrwren_> but i'll only be doing anythin for 30min :)
<mathomastech> Was out a about getting stuff done this morning, didnt catch the hangout. Perhaps next time.
<snap-l>  No worries. That's the point of this jam: take advantage of the impromptu periods of time
<jjesse> hrmm ok have my tablet now running via MultiRom but now when i boot to Ubuntu it stays at a black screen
<jjesse> so off to ubuntu-touch i  go
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-03-03
<mathomastech> Prepping to install Ubuntu Touch on my Nexus 7.
<rick_h_> mathomastech: woot
<rick_h_> mathomastech: bring it to CHC ... well CHC in two weeks
<mathomastech> Will do.
<mathomastech> Not enough space in /data   Well thats helpful. I have a feeling I am going to have to flash stock android before I can flash Ubuntu touch
<mathomastech> Yep, 1 healthy dose of factory reset and I am on my way with the install.
<mathomastech> Ubuntu Touch -> https://plus.google.com/u/0/103260909450809151378/posts/1MEX3H4rg6w
<mathomastech> https://plus.google.com/u/0/103260909450809151378/posts/1MEX3H4rg6w
<rick_h_> mathomastech: need more info :P
<mathomastech> ?
<Blazeix> very cool!
<rick_h_> mathomastech: no words, tell me how awesome it is :P
<rick_h_> mathomastech: just messing with ya, all good
<rick_h_> definitely cool, can't wait to try that out after next week
<mathomastech> rick_h_: It's pretty good so far. It doesn't do much, and I can't seem to log into any services (gmail, etc). Definitely an early preview but UI wise I really like it.
<mathomastech> in fact, ill post a pic to G+ in a sec of something interesting.
<mathomastech> Ubuntu Touch Identity Crisis!   ->   https://plus.google.com/u/0/103260909450809151378/posts/RwxAfvmjhvM
<snap-l> evening
<jjesse> evening snap-l
<snap-l> We having fun this evening?
<jjesse> totally
<jjesse> and you
<jjesse> ?
<greg-g> yo yo
<jjesse> yo yo greg-g
<snap-l> Hey greg-g !
<snap-l> Had some company over so haven't been around the computer much
<greg-g> yeah, me neither, but b/c its the weekend and that's kind of how life is now
<jjesse> i'm hanging out w/ my in-laws
<greg-g> fun ?
<jjesse> not bad i get along pretty well w/ them
<greg-g> awesome
<jjesse> what sucks is that i drove home from Wisconsin friday afternoon, dropped off the rental car and jumped in my car for another 2 hours of driving
<jjesse> so i'm ready to be home for a change
<greg-g> yeah, I bet
<Tig3rzhark> I'm jammin\
<Tig3rzhark> things seem pretty quiet here
<Tig3rzhark> today I just converted one of my friends to lubuntu.
<tony-smlr> Sunday Morning Linux Review podcast is live!  Video: http://www.youtube.com/user/tbemus?v=cc8B6KE5Zw4 , Audio: http://live.smlr.us:8000/streaming
<snap-l> I'm Jamming
<snap-l> Looking at some askubuntu questions
<snap-l> OK, off for some lunch. bbl
<jrwren_> its been weeks, but i finally realized how utterly stupid this policy is
<jrwren_> https://code.launchpad.net/~evarlast/serverguide/wordpress/+merge/150194
<jrwren_> "I do not like the references used here. We should always strive to point users to definitive resources (typically upstream), not the community documentation [1] nor the forums [2]."
<jrwren_> unacceptible.
<jrwren_> if I have referenced a blog, i should list it as a reference.
<jrwren_> *grumble*
<jrwren_> i look forward to hearing a response. My hopes are not high. I feel this is a situation where I disagree with project owners.
<snap-l> Hello
<rick_h_93> howdy
<snap-l> http://download.magnatune.com/artists/albums/skarazula-litha/
<snap-l> I'm jamming
<snap-l> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/e4217d3199c2c7b08e75acf5da261962407563b7?authuser=0&hl=en
<snap-l> WE be hangin'
<snap-l> Playing around with ask Ubuntu on here
<snap-l> jcastro: You around?
<mathomastech> Still jammin
<mathomastech> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/e4217d3199c2c7b08e75acf5da261962407563b7?authuser=0&hl=en
<jsjgruber-x-r> jammin on webkit related stuff
<snap-l> jsjgruber-x-r: Very cool
<jsjgruber-x-r> Any chance someone here with raring installed could install ephiphany-browser and start epiphany against ubuntuonair.com/#video and see if it crashes for them too? I'm working on lp: #1142947 (I reported it an hour or so ago.)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-02-24
<rick_h> brousch: :P
<brousch> My head is spinning. I think I might throw up
<brousch> How is this possible?
<JonEdney> You weren't supposed to inhale.
<rick_h> as gui team lead i need to qa gui and quickstart on safri and osx
<rick_h> brousch: and lenovo is trying to disappoint me each generation of laptop so I might as well try it out and see how the keyboard/etc is
<brousch> Isn't it a web gui?
<rick_h> quickstart is a python app for Juju
<rick_h> and yes, it's a web gui, but safari is different enough from chrome to need it's own testing/qa
<rick_h> https://saucelabs.com/jobs/7ad221c336f544bf98df836f5dee480e
<brousch> This will take me a while to wrap my head around
<rick_h> heh, well just think of it this way. Part of my job now is to make sure developer tooling we create works on OSX, therefore I've got two laptops atm. https://twitter.com/mitechie/status/437664920927092737/photo/1
<rick_h> and I'd like to get native ubuntu in a dual boot on the air if I can.
<brousch> You'll end up in Windows most of the time to troubleshoot IE
<rick_h> heh, already an issue but I can run that in a VM easily enough. We've had IE support for a while
<rick_h> https://saucelabs.com/jobs/64d36d3ed3e742bb930a695e6dd1efd0
<rick_h> test suite passes IE10, IE11 is after safari on the radar
<rick_h> shoot, I've got an MSDN license from work heh
<brousch> I've been watching Portlandia. Now I'm afraid of Portland
<rick_h> lol
<rick_h> my wife thinks it'll change my mind
<rick_h> cmaloney: MUG meeting idea: kanban
<rick_h> and we'll get jsivak to attend :)
<cmaloney> hah
<cmaloney> I've been forwarding him those articles that Kevin Dangoor posted
<rick_h> yea, I should walk you through it sometime. Though reading the big kanban in software book atm so picking up some theory to go with our practice
<greg-g> rick_h: which book is that?
<cmaloney> good morning
<cmaloney> rick_h: Which big kanban software bok?
<rick_h> cmaloney: greg-g http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0057H2M70/ref=oh_d__o02_details_o02__i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
<rick_h> and http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00H3RFCOW/ref=oh_d__o01_details_o01__i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 is on deck
<cmaloney> http://www.djaa.com/kanban-successful-evolutionary-change-your-technology-business-0
<cmaloney> Cool.
<cmaloney> Will check it out.
<cmaloney> eBook version <3
<rick_h> cool
<rick_h> yea, I'm a big fan of the kanban board. I think we're using it for visual/planning purposes more than the official 'kanban limit the workflow'
<rick_h> but the idea sounds interesting so curious to try to get more of the background theory and see if we can use it
<cmaloney> I think it might help more with what we're doing at work since we could see who is working on what.
<rick_h> right, the visibility is awesome. mix that with a daily standup and you head off issues before they're issues really often
<rick_h> and you're aware of interaction points ahead of time
<rick_h> plus we can easily see dependancies "I need xxx to do yyy before I can start card zzz"
<cmaloney> Yep;
<rick_h> cmaloney: but yea, I was thinking it might be interesting to show off a couple of our kanban boards, how we use it to plan/schedule work, etc
<rick_h> as a MUG thing as you could use it for more, but might be something new
<cmaloney> We
<cmaloney> If you're up for doing a talk about it we'd love to have it.
<brousch> I bought big ball to sit on. They were $15 at meijer
<cmaloney> brousch: Hope you have the space for it
<cmaloney> That's one thing that I realized when I had the big ball chair was there was no room for anything else.
<cmaloney> also you can't really swivel on it
<brousch> Taking a long time to pump up
<cmaloney> I hope you got a pump. :)
<rick_h> heh, need an air compressor
<rick_h> that's how I inflate mine
<brousch> It came with a hand pump
<brousch> I should have brought my bike pump
<rick_h> lol brousch is going to wish he was shoveling snow by the time he can sit on his ball
<cmaloney> rick_h: Would you be up for presenting on Kanban for March's meeting
<cmaloney> ?
<rick_h> cmaloney: I could
<cmaloney> (we had a cancelation for March. Apparently Mark Ramm thinks not being in the country is more important than MUG. Sheesh!)
<rick_h> the 11th right?
<cmaloney> Yep
<rick_h> lol
<rick_h> ok, I can step in for Ramm then
<cmaloney> Coolness.
<cmaloney> smoser: Would you be up for doing a shell-scripting talk in March as well?
<cmaloney> rick_h: Thank you very much!
<cmaloney> rick_h: Please send me an abstract when you have a chance.
<cmaloney> or if you want I'll word-smith something
<rick_h> cmaloney: k, probably tonight. meeting day today yay
<cmaloney> rick_h: woo woo!
<smoser> cmaloney, is that 4th or 11th?
<rick_h> 11th smoser
<smoser> 11th. i think. and yeah, then i can do a secondary presentation there.
<cmaloney> smoser: Actually since you already presented in Feb we'd like to give you a break if that's OK.
<smoser> cmaloney, thats fine too.
<cmaloney> smoser: Thanks!
<cmaloney> Also to everyone with last names not covered by the 26 letters of the alphabet: you're all on notice.
<rick_h> not covered?
<cmaloney> Yep. ASCII or bust
 * cmaloney is unfucking some latin-1 breakage.
<cmaloney> ls
<cmaloney> bah
<jrwren> shell scripting? what is that? ;p
<rick_h> :P
<waf> it's kind of like applescript.
<rick_h> waf wins!
<waf> did i make anyone violently headdesk? that was the goal
<rick_h> lol, you're out for blood!
<dzho> it's kind of like powershell
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWAPXWNthDg
<cmaloney> I did not realize this was a cover of a Queen song
<greg-g> rick_h: is the kindle version of that book good enough?
<greg-g> one of the reviews mentions maybe not?
<rick_h> greg-g: so far, I'm just a little bit into it
<greg-g> the cartoons legible?
<rick_h> oh hmm, I did notice an image I couldn't make out
<cmaloney> greg-g: The site that I posted has the kindle and PDF versions
<rick_h> only had one so far and didn't think much of it
<cmaloney> but $20 is $10 more than the kindle version
<cmaloney> Kinda sucks that you have to choose a version rather than get a zip with each format.
 * greg-g doesn't see your link, cmaloney 
<cmaloney> http://www.djaa.com/kanban-successful-evolutionary-change-your-technology-business-0
<rick_h> SETI for mobile phones lol http://r.bmark.us/u/f81b295a638b1b
<cmaloney> The follow-up book is actually cheaper on that site than on the Kindle.
<cmaloney> rick_h: No. Just no.
<cmaloney> Bad enough that Twitter woke up every so often to poll. That's all I'd need is SETI draining my battery
<greg-g> hey, they're more powerful than the original computer I ran SETI on
<cmaloney> sadly that is true
<cmaloney> Wonder if there's a SETI client for RPi
<greg-g> my 75mhz machine, oh man, I miss that guy.
<greg-g> When we went to 120 I felt like a god
<greg-g> huh, yeah, rick_h, if you haven't already bought that second one, you'd save $14 buying directly (and it's a kindle epub)
<rick_h> too late :/
<cmaloney> I think it washes out
<greg-g> I always assume buying direct is more expensive
<rick_h> I got a list of suggestions and knocked off the top of the list in one swoop
 * greg-g nods
<rick_h> yea, not always true. I have to check it with oreilly as sometimes the 35% LUG deal works out
<cmaloney> 50% LUG deal
<rick_h> 50?
<cmaloney> DSUG. Don't leave home witout it.
<cmaloney> yep.
<rick_h> thought it was just 35
<rick_h> yea, that's the one I use
<rick_h> oh hmm, must have gone up
<greg-g> "This book might have been titled, "The Very Best of Agile Management Blog" but that would do it an injustice."
<greg-g> heh
<rick_h> lol
<rick_h> yea, it's kind of strange reading all these manager books
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h> my brain auto shuts off and I have to go back and reread pages
<rick_h> "wait...I CARE about this now...try again"
<cmaloney> hah
<rick_h> had a call today where I've got to learn "planning poker"
<rick_h> wtf is planning poker? Oh it has a website
<rick_h> and http://www.microaggressions.com/ wtf
<greg-g> yeah, I'm reading this right now, and I do the same: http://www.amazon.com/Continuous-Delivery-Deployment-Automation-Addison-Wesley-ebook/dp/B003YMNVC0/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
<rick_h> ah, had that one and never got that far.
<cmaloney> planning poker?
<greg-g> the first chapter was worthless
<rick_h> cmaloney: :)
<cmaloney> da fuq
<rick_h> http://www.planningpoker.com/
<rick_h> wheeee!
<cmaloney> Wow, that sounds silly
<greg-g> depends.
<greg-g> you're a cranky old man, but some teams like the estimation before sprints :)
 * greg-g 's team doesn't
<greg-g> heh
<cmaloney> greg-g: Sounds like a meta-game for estimation.
<greg-g> define meta game? it's a way of having the team estimate together
<rick_h_> bah, fail
<greg-g> I've only done it once, at this "SCRUM product manager" training thingy
<cmaloney> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metagaming
<cmaloney> Though I was using it in the sense of using a game to play a different game altogether
 * cmaloney needs to find what that word is and start using it. :)
<cmaloney> mini-game perhaps?
<greg-g> :)
<cmaloney> âEveryone loves this. Yesterday we all used laptops in the same room (along with one remote user) instead of cards. It's definitely more fun than using physical cards and solves the problem of revealing cards too soon. Great idea.â
<greg-g> .... lame
<greg-g> I have 2 packs of planning poker cards, if ya want one :)
<cmaloney> To me that sounds like you're concentrating on the overlaying game rather than the actual reason for planning
<cmaloney> hah
<greg-g> well, that's the service provider trying to sell a service
<cmaloney> true
<cmaloney> Ah, this isn't nearly as silly as I thought it was
<cmaloney> (planning poker)
 * greg-g nods
<cmaloney> seems like a way to get people to talk about estimates
<greg-g> if we actually did sprints, we'd probably do it
<cmaloney> which is sad that it takes a game to get people to talk about estimates.
<greg-g> yeah, you debate/try to convince others why you think its only a 3 when they say it's a 12 (or whatever)
<cmaloney> or vice versa. :)
<greg-g> yep :)
<cmaloney> Man, Harold Ramis passed away
<rick_h_> had to look it up but now I know that guy
<cmaloney> Yeah
<jrwren> no way!
<cmaloney> way
<cmaloney> Apparently he had health problems.
<jrwren> how old was he? like 52?
<jrwren> i guess this means there will never be a ghostbusters 3
<cmaloney> 69
<cmaloney> and there will be another Ghostbusters
<cmaloney> just not with Egon
<jrwren> oh sure, probably a reboot. jj abrams will probably write and direct, and it will definitely suck.
<cmaloney> The containment field will explode
<cmaloney> and take out all of New York with it
<Azeban> http://i.imgur.com/5RZ1FIu.jpg
<Azeban> meet rachel
<Azeban> shes 2 months old
<cmaloney> Hi Rachel
<Azeban> she sleeps 17 hours a day
<jrwren> um, that is a big cat
<Azeban> shes still a baby
<Azeban> will get up to 300 pounds
<rick_h_> greg-g: http://www.thoughtworks.com/insights/blog/case-continuous-delivery
<greg-g> I need to get over my knee jerk reaction to thoughtworks
<rick_h_> Congratulations!
<rick_h_> Your Organization Application for Bookie to Google Summer of Code 2014
<rick_h_> has been accepted.
<rick_h_> YAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAY
<Azeban> whats that?
<rick_h_> Google Summer of Code
<rick_h_> it's Google paying students to hack on open source for the summer
<Azeban> great.
<rick_h_> and Bookie is my open source project that's been accepted
<rick_h_> so grown man doing the happy dance over here
<Azeban> tell me about the project
<rick_h_> ever use delicious or pinboard?
<rick_h_> https://bmark.us/ and https://bmark.us/recent
<Azeban> cant say i have.
<rick_h_> bookmark many websites?
<Azeban> I dont know what those are.
<Azeban> I do.
<Azeban> I have over 500 bookmarks
<rick_h_> cmaloney: you're on the hook now as backup mentor
<waf> rick_h_: awesome! congrats
<rick_h_> :P
<Azeban> whats delicious and pinboard?
<rick_h_> they're online bookmark management applications
<rick_h_> a couple of the big commercial ones
<Azeban> whats that?
<rick_h_> I run a smaller open source tool that has some features I like
<Azeban> interesting.
<rick_h_> http://pinboard.in/ and https://delicious.com/
<Azeban> will check it.
<Azeban> whats the difference between those?
<cmaloney> rick_h_: ruh roh. :)
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Congratulations! :)
<Azeban> im registering with delicious
<brousch> rick_h_: Nice!
<brousch> Azeban: No, fool, register with bmark.us
<cmaloney> brousch: Now now
<cmaloney> no need for name calling
<_stink__> rick_h_: wow, congrats!
<greg-g> rick_h_: niiiice
<widox> rick_h_: woot
<brousch> cmaloney: Did you just CoC slap me?
<rick_h_> Azeban: each bookmark service does things a little different
<rick_h_> Azeban: pinboard is very much about light weight, speed, and the core web service. Things like extensions and apps are up to the community
<rick_h_> Azeban: delicious is more about the pretty, discovery, etc
<rick_h_> Azeban: bookie is about being open source, fulltext indexing, and hopefully you can feel like you own/control your data.
<Azeban> I'll try it.
<rick_h_> hah, bookie irc channel hasn't seem this many new faces since it started
<brousch> I forgot about that channel
<_stink__> rick_h_: how you have groupies to sort out, hah
<brousch> rick_h_: How many are asking "Why didn't you use Django?!"
<rick_h_> _stink__: bwuhahaha
<rick_h_> brousch: :P
<cmaloney> brousch: I believe I did. :)
<brousch> rick_h_: Chromebook Pixel EOL is April 2017, not 2015
<rick_h_> brousch: ah, thought I saw/read 2015 somewhere
<brousch> First date on the list is 2015, but it's not the pixel http://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/devices/eol.html
<rick_h_> gotcha
<jrwren> django is evil.
<cmaloney> jrwren: To what do we owe this epiphahy?
<jrwren> the error I am currently getting from django admin interface :(
<brousch> jrwren: You should have gone with Pyramid. Then you wouldn't have to worry an admin interface
<jrwren> this has been django for years.
<jrwren> before pyramid existed :p
<brousch> Fine then, Pylons
<jrwren> me.
<jrwren> meh
<jrwren> i shouldn't complain. this is just some insane edge case bug.
<jrwren> only showing on 1 db record.
<jrwren> other records work fine.
<Azeban> http://i.imgur.com/xnplZdJ.jpg
<Azeban> team destruction in action
<cmaloney> Azeban: Are you housing lion cubs?
<waf> i don't know if you noticed this, but there appears to be lions in your house. you may want to leave.
<Azeban> they are into ruining the furniture
<Azeban> cmaloney, not just cubs.
<cmaloney> Azeban: I'm having enough to deal with a rather spoiled domesticated cat. I can't imagine handling anything larger
<Azeban> they are super spoiled.
<brousch> You will be eaten in the middle of the night
<Azeban> nah
<Azeban> They're like cats, just wilder
<Azeban> :)
<Azeban> We had some of the adults since they were cubs so we have a special relationship with them
<cmaloney> Azeban: Right. I have cut marks on my arms from where Pixel decided that she'd had enough of my shit.
<Azeban> thats probably your fault :D
<Azeban> http://i.imgur.com/omNYHB9.jpg
<cmaloney> Yesterday she about took off my sock because she didn't like me putting my foot near her stomach
<cmaloney> I'd rather she take the sock rather than the foot.
<cmaloney> That is adorable though
<brousch> rick_h_: Sell your Lenovo yet?
<rick_h_> brousch: no :P
<Azeban> http://i.imgur.com/yT90iPn.jpg
<Azeban> this is her favorite spot
<brousch> Azeban: Where do you live that you have all of these large predators in your home?
<Azeban> its not in michigan so you shouldnt worry.
<Azeban> its not even in america.
<cmaloney> Azeban: heh, I was thinking you might be in Detroit. :)
<cmaloney> Apparently there are some folks that have had large cats down there.
<Azeban> yeah?
<Azeban> sure, I met some zoo owners
<cmaloney> They're unofficial zoo owners. :)
<cmaloney> usually folks who don't want folks nosing around in their business.
<Azeban> hahah
<Azeban> I mean I met with americans who have private zoos in their houses
<cmaloney> Azeban: Whereabouts on the globe are you?
<Azeban> dubai
<cmaloney> Ah, very cool
<Azeban> have you been here before?
<cmaloney> No, haven't been outside of North America.
<cmaloney> I've been to Canada but that's like America Jr.
<Azeban> I've been to canada last month
<rick_h_> OMG man student flood
<rick_h_> thanks trevlar cmaloney and greg-g
<brousch> I've been to Detroit. That counts as visiting a 3rd world country.
<rick_h_> I leave 5min and "flood"
<cmaloney> rick_h_: np
<Azeban> brousch, dubai is nothing like detroit
<Azeban> and its not a 3rd world country
<cmaloney> Yeah, from what I've seen Dubai is more like visiting Disneyland
<brousch> I didn't say it was!
<cmaloney> brousch: Pfft.
<Azeban> dinseyland is tiny
<Azeban> in comparison :)
<cmaloney> Right. It's just a city, not a country.
<Azeban> we are now building the largest entertainment complex in the world
<Azeban> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubailand
<Azeban> but its already amazing place.
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Wow. :)
<cmaloney> Jaw. Hitting floor. :)
<rick_h_> cmaloney: no kidding
<rick_h_> cmaloney: ummm, I just thought I'd mentor a student on some Bookie hacking for a month or two :)
<cmaloney> Yeah, I didn't realize this was going to be a fair.
<rick_h_> no kidding
<rick_h_> and you know student selection isn't for a month
<cmaloney> I'm still looking for the manual. :)
<rick_h_> https://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/events/google/gsoc2014
<rick_h_> is the schedule
<rick_h_> student applications opens March 10 and clsoes March 21
<rick_h_> so this is all the "get to know some orgs" stage
<cmaloney> Yeah, and this just hit at 2pm. :)
<rick_h_> right!
<rick_h_> I've got to go grocery shopping and such later
<rick_h_> so hope you guys can help some :)
<cmaloney> I just added the calendar to my Google Calendar
<rick_h_> ooh, I should do that
<jrwren> hey rick_h_ wanna feel old?
<greg-g> (already do)
<rick_h_> jrwren: no, just had a birthday this weekend so kind of there
<jrwren> that gsoc candidates name ends in 93 because that was the year he was born.
<rick_h_> jrwren: :/
<greg-g> hah
<jrwren> kids born AFTER Kirk Cobain died!!!
<rick_h_> who?
<rick_h_> :/
<greg-g> kurt
<greg-g> kirk is star trek, man
<rick_h_> I know, but imagine them asking you "who" if you said that
<waf> that's nothing, we have intern applicants that were born 1996
<rick_h_> man, I was looking at wine that was from 1996
<rick_h_> that's nuts that programming students are as old as the wine I want to get
<jrwren> haha, you can tell I don't know or care much about this Cobain fella if I don't know his first name :)
<greg-g> yeah, my community has a ton of youngins, like, 15 year olds. we had a freshman in college work for us last summer, who is awesome
<greg-g> jrwren: take that back
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h_> cmaloney: what did I get into?! whoa
<rick_h_> I'm afriad to leave my computer
<rick_h_> and should I start saying "hey, only going to try to get one or two students" now?
<brousch> Did you set some pre-requisites? 1. Use Bookie 2. Get your own instance running
<cmaloney> heh
<rick_h_> well that's the pastebin getting started I threw together
<rick_h_> but we've already got people filing bugs, asking about how things work
<rick_h_> I mean 5 or 6 folks have it running already
<brousch> When Kivy's was announced, a few kids jumped right in like that
<brousch> Some of them went away. I assume they weren't interested in Kivy or the specific projects for Kivy
<rick_h_> we normally have 10 folks in irc, have 21 now and people have come and gone. Mailing list hasn't had an email since Nov and has 2 in there
<cmaloney> Yeah, I'll be surprised if we keep all of these folks
<cmaloney> this is the "butt sniffing" period
<rick_h_> oh definitely
<cmaloney> I think we're getting a bunch since we're on the front page. :)
<rick_h_> but it's also < 3hrs in
<rick_h_> we are? /me goes to load the page
<cmaloney> alphabetical, boyeeees. :)
<rick_h_> oh yea? hah
<cmaloney> Good thing you didn't call this thing Zephyr or Zimbabwe.
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> maybe I should have
<cmaloney> ZZZZZbookie
<cmaloney> The sleepy little bookmarking application
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> yea, top of the list nice
<brousch> Ah, yeah, and you're your own org, whereas Kivy is under the PSF
<rick_h_> Bookie rules! :)
<rick_h_> yea, I didn't realize how the python thing worked until after I got submitted
<trevlar> #bookie is insane
<trevlar> props to rick_h_ for fielding all these questions
<cmaloney> I think he had practice from PyOhio. :)
<rick_h_> heh, if there's one thing I know and have spent many hours trying to fix it's bookie install
<greg-g> GSOC announce day: the day rick took off from work.
<rick_h_> naw, they did it late enough in the day :)
<rick_h_> I was supposed to take a half day since I was working until 9pm friday
<rick_h_> just not getting my nap in after all lol
<cmaloney> rick_h_: That never works out doesn't it? :)
<greg-g> I want a nap!
<rick_h_> hey, this is working out
<rick_h_> a couple of students have already impressed
<cmaloney> I mean the half-day thing. :)
<rick_h_> that green_ guy? man
<rick_h_> he got it running had a bug, legit questions
<cmaloney> Yeah, that is pretty cool.
<rick_h_> blew me away
<cmaloney> heading home. bbl.
<brousch> We'll have to change the name of this to #bookie-backchannel
<rick_h_> have a good ride, thanks for the help!
<rick_h_> lol
<cmaloney> np. :)
<brousch> Circle of IRC
<rick_h_> this has always been a back channel room
<cmaloney> mug back-channel
<rick_h_> MUG, work,
<cmaloney> bookie-back-channel
<cmaloney> life back-channel. :)
<greg-g> I love the irc-as-backchannel channels
<greg-g> rick_h_: from a coworker:
<greg-g> "Now that #gsoc season has started, a reminder: Indians' "I have a doubt, can you resolve it?" = US "I have a question, can you answer it?""
<greg-g> (I haven't been watching #bookie, this isn't in response to anything)
<brousch> heh
<brousch> One fun thing about the Kivy IRC channel is regular users are from all around the world
<brousch> You see all kinds of funny phrasing
<brousch> ahahah
<brousch> For dropping Microsoft
<brousch> for Blackberry http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/the-exchange/why-ford-is-dumping-microsoft-162623367.html
<cmaloney> brousch: what?!?
<cmaloney> ah, just fir sync
<cmaloney> still, that is huge
<cmaloney> qnx is a good choice
<Azeban> hello
<Azeban> had dinner
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-02-25
<cmaloney> evening
<rick_h_> party
<brousch> My ball is 20% pumped up
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> morning and welcome to the bookie flood of 2014
<rick_h_> brousch: good call on the windows note. We've got our first windows user who's actually managed to get it installed and compiled enough stuff to get that far :/
<brousch> hehe
<brousch> Happens in #kivy a lot. Actually OSX may be more problematic there
<mrgoodcat> waf: yes i do run a chromebook. why did that come up?
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: gamerchick had a question about installing on it
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: she's not around atm, but was curious and we were trying to find her chromebook folks to chat to
<mrgoodcat> did it get resolved or does she still need help?
<rick_h_> I think the question is still out, if you see her hop in sometime I'm sure she'd appreciate some info
<mrgoodcat> i have irssinotifier so just mention my nick and i'll get on if i can
<rick_h_> no problem or hurry. We can point her that maybe an email would make sense or what not
<mrgoodcat> tell her to email the mailing list
<rick_h_> will do
<rick_h_> thanks
<jrwren> oh no! https://www.trustedsec.com/february-2014/python-remote-code-execution-socket-recvfrom_into/
<rick_h_> interesting
<brousch> Chromebook r0x
<mrgoodcat> brousch: agreed
<brousch> I've almost convinced myself to get a pixel
<mrgoodcat> don't
<mrgoodcat> not worth it
<cmaloney> brousch: Interesting that you've convinced yourself to spend $1500 on a laptop.
<mrgoodcat> just get the 4GB C720
<cmaloney> Isn't that the first one to be discontinued?
<mrgoodcat> what? the c720? i just got one
<brousch> cmaloney: Nah, can get them used for like $900
<brousch> mrgoodcat: But the screen on the pixel is so much better. I have a 4GB C720 for my son
<brousch> No, C720 is discontinued in 2017
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Ah, it's slated to be EOL November 2017.
<mrgoodcat> the screen is better but i don't know if I could justify even 800$ for that
<rick_h_> woot screens!
<rick_h_> says the man that spent a pixel on just a screen :/
<brousch> 1366x768 is a far cry from 2,560x1,600
<mrgoodcat> i could see getting a nice 4K monitor or something like that. but for a laptop i'm not sure its worth it
<rick_h_> using this air I want a 13" retina now. The same res as my 12.5" and it's nicer, but I really want more.
<brousch> I cannot go back to low res tablets because I have such nice ones
<rick_h_> yep
<rick_h_> it's the new cable modem
<rick_h_> once you get a real taste it's hard to go back to low res devices
<brousch> rick_h_: Pixel has retina-like resolution, and 4:3
<rick_h_> yea, I'm all for the pixel. It's been tempting on multiple occassions
<rick_h_> but I've got a 512gb ssd in here ...
<brousch> You use a lot of virtual machines
<brousch> 4GB would kill you
<cmaloney> http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2014/02/schadenfreude-1.html
<rick_h_> jrwren: https://plus.google.com/103784974947002542224/posts/9WP6TLPUzws
<_stink_> rick_h_: holy crap how you are going to handle all that new blood
<_stink_> i would rip out my hair
<rick_h_> _stink_: it won't last. We're only going to have 2 slots
<_stink_> who picks?
<_stink_> you?
<rick_h_> yea, they submit an application and I pick two students to mentor for projects they pitch in their apps
<_stink_> so they're just trying to kiss your ass for now?
<rick_h_> they're supposed to get to know orgs and look into the projects, how they work, etc until the 10th of march
<rick_h_> which yea, seems to be just that :/
<rick_h_> and then they have from the 10th to 21st to submit apps
<_stink_> interesting
<_stink_> good luck to you
<rick_h_> no kidding
<brousch> rick_h_: PEP8 check their projects on github :D
<jrwren> rick_h_: this post could not be found
<rick_h_> jrwren: oh hmm
<rick_h_> oh, not publicly shared
<rick_h_> https://plus.google.com/+ChristianHeimes/posts/Z62EBkMsn4n jrwren
<jrwren> rick_h_: thanks.
<jrwren> its cool that 3.3.4 is fixed, but 2.7.x is the important fix
<rick_h_> right
<rick_h_> and ubuntu/debian getting updated builds out to everyone
<jrwren> yay
<jrwren> i saw the psql fix come in last night
<rick_h_> hmm, not sold that this is a better solution for my future F2540
<rick_h_> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/02/ford-drops-microsoft-will-use-blackberrys-realtime-os-for-next-sync/
<rick_h_> f250 bah
<dzho> QNX
<rick_h_> yea, the title of trading MS for BB makes one wince though lol
<rick_h_> I suppose qnx will survive in some way regardless of BB
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Well, you're already using QNX in your VW.
<rick_h_> cmaloney: doh! I'm doomed
<rick_h_> and already don't believe it'll last 10 years
<cmaloney> QNX is not all that bad.
<rick_h_> no, just more that it's owned by a sinking ship
<cmaloney> please.
<cmaloney> Nokia is busily shooting holes in its boat and it's not in any worse shape.
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> come on, you're not rushing out for the nokia android phone?
<cmaloney> Have you learned nothing from SCO?
<cmaloney> companies don't die, they just sell off their relavent assets to holding companies
<cmaloney> Honestly if you ever want immortality, show up on a corporate balance sheet.
<dzho> ohhhhhhh
<dzho> so that's what David Bowie's game is
<cmaloney> it's fitting that Nitzer Ebb's "Join in the Chant" just came on the Squeezebox.
<jrwren> rick_h_: from subaru to F250?
<jrwren> GUNS GOLD FIRE
<cmaloney> yeah, I didn't realize that the F250 was even in the running of RickRide++
<rick_h_> jrwren: heh
<cmaloney> Or is that RickRoll++ ? :)
<rick_h_> well the goal is to get the wife a new car in a couple of years that's the 'family' ride and shared
<rick_h_> auto adjusting memory seats and the like
<rick_h_> good gas milage, the commuter
<rick_h_> and the 250 for towing the airstream, sits parked most of the time, emergency second vehicle
<rick_h_> so we've still got the outback, it's the wife's car
<rick_h_> and her new one might be another outback, she's loving it
<rick_h_> but going to need more truck to get my airsteam
<jrwren> 13mpg pulling or not :)
<rick_h_> yep :/
<cmaloney> And sounds like a meat grinder while idling.
<jrwren> only if its diesel
<rick_h_> naw, they're getting better at that
<rick_h_> oh it'll be the big D, not going back after having this TDI
<jrwren> VW TDI != Ford Deisel
<jrwren> very different engines
<cmaloney> Yeah, I have to agree w/ jrwren
<rick_h_> yea
<cmaloney> knowing rick_h_'s luck the year he goes out to buy the F250 Diesel will be the year they discontinue it
<rick_h_> lol
<cmaloney> and you'll only be able to get the boneshaker F350l
<rick_h_> my uncle has the full 8' 250
<cmaloney> F350 rather
<rick_h_> err 350
<rick_h_> yea, 4 door 8' bed, tank
<dzho> rick_h_: remind me, which TDI do you have?
<jrwren> who makes the engines for ford? Ford? or is it Detroit Diesel? or Cummins?
<rick_h_> dzho: touareg
<dzho> ah
<dzho> my 2000 Golf is starting to rust out :(
<cmaloney> I want to say it's Cummins
<cmaloney> but not 100% sure
<jrwren> Ford I think.
<jrwren> "Power Stroke"
<cmaloney> jrwren: You're right
<rick_h_> yea cummings is chrysler I thought
<cmaloney> And you hit the same Wikipedia page. ;)
<jrwren> nah, I hit: http://www.ford.com/trucks/superduty/features/Feature1/
<cmaloney> I'm glad they buld them in house
<cmaloney> one thing Ford did well was engines
<cmaloney> Their transmissions on the other hand...
<jrwren> hahaha, I was about to say the same thing
<cmaloney> GM eats brakes, Ford eats transmissions, and Chrysler eats dust.
<cmaloney> (I say this as an owner of products of all three brands)
<jrwren> you like your chrysler eh?
<jrwren> GM eats seals too
<jrwren> err, GM Dexacool eats gaskets :(
<mrgoodcat> my chevrolet has been through 2 transmissions
<jrwren> but i"m going to try to get a few more years out of my GM car anyway
<mrgoodcat> i'm on my third right now
<mrgoodcat> still under 200k
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: let me guess: Pontiac Vibe?
<mrgoodcat> because chevrolet definitely makes the pontiac vibe
<jrwren> oh wait, chevy.
<jrwren> hrm...
<jrwren> i can't guess.
<mrgoodcat> suburban
<mrgoodcat> 04
<jrwren> oh REALY!?!
<mrgoodcat> the transmission is a piece of shit
<jrwren> what engine?
<mrgoodcat> 5.3 v8
<mrgoodcat> wait no
<mrgoodcat> yes
<mrgoodcat> 5.3 v8
<jrwren> huh, that SHOULD be solid.
<jrwren> weird.
<mrgoodcat> I love driving it and it has great utility, but the transmission is a POS
<mrgoodcat> one of my buddies that works at the GM proving grounds told me that they knew it was shitty when they sent it out
<jrwren> huh, maybe I'm thinking of the trans for 5.7
<jrwren> well, admitedly, a lot of GM transmissions are "shitty", but they make up for it in software :p
<mrgoodcat> the z71 is rock solid
<mrgoodcat> I have the z71 transmission in it now and hopefully it will last longer
<mrgoodcat> nothing is worse than chrysler though
<mrgoodcat> and I don't see that improving now that they're owned by Fiat which is known for shitty quality
<mrgoodcat> http://autos.jdpower.com/research/FIAT/500/2013/Hatchback/ratings.htm
<cmaloney> jrwren: Oh yeah, Dexacool is nasty stuff
<jrwren> my last Chrysler was a '84 or 86 Omni. It lasted a very long time.
<cmaloney> You can't kill a Dodge Omni
<cmaloney> They're the roaches of automobiles.
<jrwren> dexacool coroded my gaskets. I'm now consigned to just run with it that way.
<jrwren> i'm gonna just keep running with it that way.
<jrwren> it leaks coolant like crazy. I just keep running.
<cmaloney> There's some hot-choclate mess that you can put in there to thicken it
<jrwren> i tried the rat turds. It didn't work too well
<cmaloney> huh
<jrwren> django -I'm getting ValidationError 'ManagementForm data is missing or has been tampered with' from django admin for 1 and only 1 record in a table. I look in chrome-devtools and TOTAL_FORMS and friends look correct, I think.
<jrwren> brousch: and djangoists, plz help :_)
<rick_h_> DELETE FROM xxx WHERE id = YY
<rick_h_> done!
<rick_h_> oops, need a ;
<jrwren> that is last resort
<rick_h_> with a comment in the migration script "Not compatible with Django"
<cmaloney> OK, I don't mean to judge or anything
<cmaloney> but if your wife os one year older than the number of years you've been in Congress there's something a bit fucked up about that.
<rick_h_> lol
<jrwren> cmaloney: i agree. if you are that powerful you should have a WAY younger wife.
<jrwren> wait... senator or rep? cuz rep, that is about right, but Senator - WAY more powerful, wife should never be over 30.
<jrwren> trade in for new model every 5-6 yrs
<jrwren> unless you are speaker of the house. See Newt Gingrich
<cmaloney> jrwren: DOes this also apply for female representatives? :)
<jrwren> cmaloney: definitely. all 3 of them.
<rick_h_> ok, this is funny https://plus.google.com/114546378907380458640/posts/7at4Y8KEkz6
<cmaloney> rick_h_: That's just wrong.
<rick_h_> "when your tv is bigger than your mode of transportation..."
<cmaloney> Yay! I think I'm going to be sponsoring some episodes of my favorite podcast in the name of Open Metalcast. :)
<cmaloney> (favorite podcast that I am not a part of, that is. :) )
<rick_h_> yay
<brousch> jrwren: I have no clue. Maybe funky characters in that record?
<jrwren> brousch: we thought so too so we inspected each field and found nothing
<jrwren> i finally sucked it up and unmounted my filesystem, ran fsck and did resize
<jrwren> 4.7T  3.4T  1.1T  76% /nomirror
<jrwren> still 3.78 TiB PE free in my VG
<Azeban> weather turned just nice so I took the office outdoors
<Azeban> http://i.imgur.com/jpFd4Go.jpg
<jrwren> Azeban: where are you?
<jrwren> its snowing here
<Azeban> dubai
<Azeban> its perfect here
<jrwren> nice
<rick_h_> woot, got the document camera flipped for google hangouts cmaloney
<rick_h_> used it to kind of mock out some design ideas with another team member real quick
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Awesome!
<cmaloney> Glad it's working out so quickly. :)
<mrgoodcat> just installed i3
<mrgoodcat> its an adjustment to get used to...
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: heh, yep. Have to bug widox for the pro tips
<mrgoodcat> i'm a long way from pro tips
<mrgoodcat> i just got to opening programs
<rick_h_> lol
<mrgoodcat> i think i'm going to like it though
<mrgoodcat> i like the quick application switching
<mrgoodcat> I don't have a lot of screen real estate to work with
<rick_h_> yea, I love tiling because you spend less time worrying about application layout and just do do do
<brousch> I'm sitting on my ball
<mrgoodcat> the multi monitor support is nice
<mrgoodcat> brousch: you have a workout ball for a chair?
<brousch> Yes, just finished inflating it
<mrgoodcat> so comfy :)
<mrgoodcat> I used to do that
<brousch> I used to stand, but multi monitors killed my setup there
<mrgoodcat> but i was getting back pains after a while and my chiropractor said it could be the ball
<cmaloney> Yeah, I had a period of back pain as well
<cmaloney> but it's subsided
<mrgoodcat> you use ball too?
<cmaloney> Yeah, I use the Gaiam chair
<cmaloney> (at home)
<mrgoodcat> i'm all about the standing desk these days
<rick_h_> yea, standing/sitting combo ftw
<mrgoodcat> its adjustable though if i need
<cmaloney> Unfortunately I don't have the room for the standing desk
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: i'm combo as well
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: what do you mean? it doesn't take up that much room
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: I barely have enough room for the desk that I have. :)
<mrgoodcat> but why would standing take more room?
<brousch> This is plain 75" ball. Not a chair
<mrgoodcat> brousch: mine was plain ball too
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: a) I'd need somewhere to put the chair. b) Vertical room. c) Need somewhere to put the other desk that I had to have. ;)
<mrgoodcat> oh. my desk is adjustable so i don't need to worry about the second desk
<cmaloney> Plus I have a slide-out desk that I use for my laptop. :)
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: I mean my wife would not be thrilled with me buying yet-another-desk. :)
<brousch> I think my abs are tired already
<mrgoodcat> haha
<mrgoodcat> i don't have wife to complain
<mrgoodcat> what font should i use?
<mrgoodcat> the default i3 font hurts me
<brousch> Courier
<mrgoodcat> thats the typewriter font?
<brousch> Yes
<cmaloney> This is why we never listen to brousch
<mrgoodcat> my chromebook doesn't have pageup/pagedown. does anybody know how to bind mod1+up/down to page?
<mrgoodcat> using i3
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: try ctrl up/down arrow? or alt?
<rick_h_> I know on some machines there's already a combo for it
<mrgoodcat> doesn't seem to work for me
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: :( not sure then
<mrgoodcat> damn...
<brousch> mrgoodcat: alt+up arrow should be page up
<mrgoodcat> thats in chromeos
<mrgoodcat> i'm in ubuntu right now
<brousch> I don't know if I will make it 1 hour on this ball the first day. My abs are really feeling it
<cmaloney> brousch: You may need to work your way up to it
<cmaloney> I didn't do that and had some pretty fun times with my back as a result
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, take it slow
<rick_h_> brousch: you can hurt yourself. People that go standing cold turkey actually have done damage before :/
<rick_h_> though I think jrwren was super hero that did full day standing when he started as well
<brousch> I'll tough out 1 hour and work up from there
<cmaloney> brousch: Don't be a hero
<cmaloney> seriously, you can make your day miserable
<mrgoodcat> when i started ball i was still in swimming
<mrgoodcat> i can't imagine starting now
<mrgoodcat> my poor abs
<brousch> cmaloney: I'm no hero, I'm just a big baller.
<cmaloney> Makes my 52cm seem positively pedestrian. ;)
<cmaloney> brousch: You might have some problems with a 75cm ball actually.
<cmaloney> Are you slouching?
<brousch> No, the height is really close to what my chair was
<brousch> Once I've sat on it, that is
<cmaloney> Right, but there's also a width problem
<brousch> Width is fine, not hitting anything
<cmaloney> I mean your legs are likely pushed out further
<brousch> They rest comfortably on the floor
<brousch> Size seems perfect. I'm glad I dug for this instead of settling for a 65"
<cmaloney> brousch: Can someone at the office take a photo of you sitting naturally on that ball?
<brousch> So you can post it to /r/funny?
<cmaloney> no...
<cmaloney> not right away anyway. ;)
<brousch> Hour is up, back in the chair
<brousch> Now where do I store this thing?
<cmaloney> bingo
<cmaloney> This is why I went with the ball chair
<brousch> I can shove it under my desk I guess
<mrgoodcat> you must really not have much room... am I the only one with extra space?
<brousch> Yes
<brousch> My space is full of servers, old computers, old printers, and me
<rick_h_> gahhhhhhhh
 * rick_h_ disconnects from the internet
<rick_h_> the freaking python gsoc channel is quiet
<cmaloney> Yeah, they're all in #bookie
<greg-g> haha
<cmaloney> ;)
<greg-g> I had to leave it
<greg-g> god speed good sir.
<rick_h_> greg-g: lol
<brousch> rick_h_: Better take a leave of absence
<rick_h_> just have to make it to the student selctions. Then it's only two people
<rick_h_> that I can handle
<rick_h_> 5 at once gets to be whoa
<cmaloney> Something tells me it'll get rel fun when the procrastinators kick in. :)
<greg-g> yeah, one week before submissions are due you'll be doing bookie 60 hrs that week :)
<cmaloney> Thta said there's lots of things getting fixed.
<greg-g> which is great
<greg-g> I know the first rushes can be overwhelming (it's a 3ish person full time-ish job for MediaWiki every year)
<greg-g> but in the end things are improved
<cmaloney> yep
<rick_h_> yea, no it's exciting for sure. and I still love the idea of teaching and getting experience I only kind of got through co-op in college
<rick_h_> there is a certain amount of timezone offset that's a bit ugh
<greg-g> yeah, that part sucks, push em to the mailing list if you can
<rick_h_> yea, I need to do more of that
<cmaloney> Or perhaps a Wiki of getting started instructions
<rick_h_> yea, well glad I got that far right away with the pastebin. Saved me a ton of time
<brousch> #bookie is crazy right now. I feel a little bad because I can answer so few questions
<rick_h_> hah, it's all good. I signed up very carefully for it :)
<rick_h_> heh, imports killing the server
<brousch> You wouldn't have scale problems if you'd gone with GAE
<rick_h_> :P
<greg-g> brousch: :(
<brousch> greg-g: Bah, rick_h_ knows he is my hero
<rick_h_> added 4k bookmarks heh
<rick_h_> almost to 80k now
<brousch> What was that landmark number you were near?
<brousch> Number of users maybe
<rick_h_> yea, crossed 200 users with bookmarks
<rick_h_> over 240 now
<rick_h_> and 70k bookmarks was the last milestone
<rick_h_> guess 100k will be next
<rick_h_> and 300 users with bookmarks
<rick_h_> https://bmark.us/dashboard
<brousch> 100k bookmarks should be a bookie party
<rick_h_> wish I had my graphs up now
<greg-g> brousch++
<rick_h_> so see the activity over the last day
<rick_h_> brousch: sounds like a plan to me
<greg-g> I'll be in Michigan on Friday - Tues, btw :)
<rick_h_> greg-g: ?!
<rick_h_> greg-g: then come over and have some wine!
<greg-g> sister in law's wedding, staying at mother-in-law's place in Chelsea
<greg-g> may or may not have a vehicle of our own :/
<rick_h_> that can be worked around
<greg-g> I may end up just fucking renting one, I can't be dependent on MIL
<rick_h_> we'll all crash at jcastro's place
<greg-g> YES!
<rick_h_> he's out that way
<cmaloney> I really wish Mako had an excel export
<greg-g> I don't think he uses MS software :P
<brousch> cmaloney: ODS or DIAF
<cmaloney> greg-g: har har
<cmaloney> brousch: I wish
<jrwren> apt-get install -y -f
<brousch> 'apt-get' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
<brousch> operable program or batch file.
<jrwren> *gasp*
<cmaloney> greg-g: If we don't manage to catch up, would you duck-tape yourself to the nearest flag pole so we can keep you in Michigan?
<cmaloney> just as a temporary measure until we can work out something permanent
<jrwren> sed -i 's/local +all +all +peer/local all all trust/' pg_hba.conf
<jrwren> discuss
<brousch> Can you restate it in plain English?
<jrwren> replacing postgresql peer auth with trust auth.
<jrwren> i.e. allow any local user
<jrwren> because I trust all my local users.
<jrwren> i'm trying to make folks cringe. did it work?
<brousch> Just don't have any local users!
<jrwren> right
<_stink_> brousch: i cannot stop laughing at
<_stink_> "Yes sir I want to."
<brousch> See if I can scare this one off
<brousch> I have a strong suspicion this one runs Windows
<_stink_> perhaps asking that in an accusatory tone would be appropriate
<brousch> Not really, it will pop up soon if it's the case
<gamerchick02> i forgot how good Thai food was. i've not had in forever.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-02-26
<jrwren> omg.
<jrwren> never forget.
<jrwren> what did you get?
<gamerchick02> Pad Thai from Thai Fortune on Walton
<mrgoodcat> any i3 gurus online?
<mrgoodcat> gamerchick02: i heard you were wondering about chromebooks?
<gamerchick02> you heard right
<mrgoodcat> what's the question?
<mrgoodcat> i have one
<gamerchick02> i was wondering if someone knew how to take apart the HP11 and put a 128gb SSD in and add some ram
<gamerchick02> i3? i've heard of that but never tried it
<mrgoodcat> aha. i remember seeing a writeup of that
<mrgoodcat> hang on
<gamerchick02> oooo
<waf> mrgoodcat: widox and I both run i3. not sure if we're gurus :)
<gamerchick02> what is the advantage to i3 as opposed to unity or kde or whatever?
<waf> gamerchick02: i3 is a tiling window manager, so it manages the placement of your windows for you
<gamerchick02> ah. cool. i've never gotten used to a tiling WM
<gamerchick02> is it minimal?
<mrgoodcat> http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/globalcitizenship/environment/productdata/Countries/_MultiCountry/disassembly_notebo_2013101423026263.pdf
<mrgoodcat> waf: what do you use to configure wifi?
<gamerchick02> why thank you!
<mrgoodcat> np
<waf> mrgoodcat: i use arch, so it's wifi-menu and netctl
<waf> i think those might be arch specific, but i'm not sure
<waf> i think rick_h_ uses ubuntu with a tiling wm, and i _think_ he uses network-manager, maybe with the applet
<waf> don't quote me on that, though
<gamerchick02> i think rick_h_ uses awesomewm
<waf> yeah
<gamerchick02> thanks. that pdf is saved for when i want to take it apart and attempt to upgrade it.
<gamerchick02> chromeOS is fine but it's kind of... limited. :-P
<mrgoodcat> gamerchick02: you may not be able to upgrade the ram
<mrgoodcat> and the ssd is not a regular ssd
<mrgoodcat> its eMMC
<gamerchick02> oh dang it
<gamerchick02> i might just leave it alone then
<gamerchick02> phooey
<gamerchick02> switching computers. i really should get some sort of server to run irc on so i don't lose my sessions
<waf> gamerchick02: sorry, didn't see your question. i3 is pretty minimal, but it's one of the more user-friendly and polished tiling wms.
<gamerchick02> cool. i might look into giving it a shot on ubuntu. i'm sure it's in the repos
<mrgoodcat> supposedly this ssd works
<mrgoodcat> http://www.mydigitaldiscount.com/solid-state-drives-sata-m.2-ngff-ssd
<gamerchick02> thanks
<mrgoodcat> gamerchick02: its in the repos. thats how i installed
<mrgoodcat> apt-get install i3
<mrgoodcat> waf: i'm thinking of switching to arch anyways
<gamerchick02> :) yep!
<mrgoodcat> if for no other reason then to fuck with things I shouln't be
<rick_h_> lol, good reason
<gamerchick02> hee
<gamerchick02> very good reason.
<mrgoodcat> anybody have the android google play services bug?
<gamerchick02> i3 sounds like fun. i don't have time to muck with that right now but maybe next weekend
<gamerchick02> there's a bug?
<mrgoodcat> just introduced onto my phone
<gamerchick02> ugh
<gamerchick02> sorry to hear that. what's happening?
<mrgoodcat> kills the battery life
<mrgoodcat> i only got 7 hours today
<gamerchick02> you know my nexus 7 might have that issue
<mrgoodcat> its a recent update. i has to do with the updates for kitkat
<gamerchick02> i turned off google now, restarted it, charged it fully, and it seems to have fixed it?
<gamerchick02> or maybe that's old
<mrgoodcat> i use google now every day
<gamerchick02> me too
<gamerchick02> i'd turn it off, then reboot, charge it fully, then turn it back on
<gamerchick02> see if that helps
<gamerchick02> seemed to work on my 7
<mrgoodcat> ok
<mrgoodcat> waf: do you use the default i3status
<waf> mrgoodcat: yeah. i run with a super-customized i3 config: https://github.com/waf/config/tree/master/.i3
<waf> very awesomewm-ish
<widox> mrgoodcat: I'm on ubuntu and use network-manager/nm-applet for network
<widox> I also use i3status
<mrgoodcat> cool
<mrgoodcat> i just took part of waf's config
<mrgoodcat> i left a lot of the indicators on that he turned off though
<waf> cool. i accept checks and credit cards.
<mrgoodcat> i only pay in gum
<mrgoodcat> trident layers
<waf> you drive a hard bargain.
<mrgoodcat> do you both use dmenu?
<mrgoodcat> the lack of fuzzy matching is breaking my balls
<mrgoodcat> i'm used to synaps
<mrgoodcat> synapse*
<rick_h_> gmrun
<waf> mrgoodcat: yeah, i use dmenu
<waf> dmenu-xft, specifically
<mrgoodcat> what is the difference?
<waf> xft font support
<waf> dmenu by default has limited font support, and i like pretty fonts
<widox> also using dmenu
<widox> used to use gmrun - but dmenu is already there, its ok
<mrgoodcat> i'm finding i3 in general doesn't make me very happy in terms of fonts
<mrgoodcat> i changed the font in the config but it doesn't seem to have affected chrome
<mrgoodcat> actually it doesn't seem to have affected anything... maybe i'm doing it wrong?...
<mrgoodcat> font pango: ubuntu mono 10 <- does that seem right?
<mrgoodcat> oops. good thing the wifi drivers work without kernel patches. my touchpad is completely gone though
<rick_h_> yay! done with bookie pull requests for now
<rick_h_> production updated with the first of the updates
<mrgoodcat> whats bookie?
<waf> mrgoodcat: yeah, that looks right. maybe try uppercasing it to "font pango: Ubuntu Mono 10"
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: https://bmark.us and https://github.com/bookieio
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: already googled it :)
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: it's my pet project I rope people around here into using by bribing them with accounts :)
<mrgoodcat> replacement for delicious
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: pretty much
<mrgoodcat> its non free?
<rick_h_> got into google summer of code this year and it's been a crazy 30hrs
<rick_h_> no, it's free
<rick_h_> https://bmark.us
<rick_h_> just signup
<mrgoodcat> then how do you bribe with account?
<rick_h_> meh, guess I sucker them into creating accounts
<mrgoodcat> oh god. i just realized it was a joke
<rick_h_> and tell them I'll fix their bugs first lol
<mrgoodcat> damn i feel dumb
<rick_h_> heh, no if you've not been around it's confusing
<rick_h_> it goes back several years now
<mrgoodcat> got it
<mrgoodcat> you should close #292 and #291. it says you fixed them 4 hours ago
<mrgoodcat> wait. not merged yet
<mrgoodcat> i see
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: yea, I want them to add themselves to the credits file first
<rick_h_> then I'll edit the commit message to be a bit more clear
<rick_h_> and land it
<mrgoodcat> how do you change the volume in i3?
<rick_h_> launch pavucontrol
<mrgoodcat> that appears to be arch specific
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: oh, I use that on ubuntu
<rick_h_> cmaloney: greg-g http://uploads.mitechie.com/gsoc_stats.png
<rick_h_> not quite 'doonethingwell' material but that's an up
<mrgoodcat> simple apt-get fixed it
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: awesome
<mrgoodcat> i think i like i3 so far
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: are you required to use ubuntu at canonical?
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: yes, for work at least. And we're supposed to be on the upcoming release once beta hits. Thought I tend to do that on one machine and run more stable on the other
<rick_h_> just in case
<rick_h_> but I've been on trusty for a long while this release on all my hardware
<rick_h_> I can use whatever in my own time, and there are some that run OSX and work in a virtualenv
<cmaloney> wow
<mrgoodcat> wow what?
<cmaloney> rick_h_'s stats
<mrgoodcat> are stats logged on this channel?
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Nobody's done that yet.
<cmaloney> I was referring to this: http://uploads.mitechie.com/gsoc_stats.png
<mrgoodcat> oh lol
<mrgoodcat> speaking of which... how does this channel feel about irc bots?
<cmaloney> As long as they're not a nuisance I'm OK with it.
<cmaloney> The channel is already logged via ubuntulo12
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> waf: the CHC site seems down for me. Do we need to pay the electricity or anything?
<cmaloney> heh
<waf> rick_h_: something must be wrong with the dns, all the *.coffeehousecoders.com sites are down
<rick_h_> waf: ah, gotcha
<rick_h_> waf: thanks for cecking
<waf> i'll email corey or someone
<mrgoodcat> good morning
<waf> email sent
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> https://plus.google.com/104316563409421412538/about <- seems legit.
<cmaloney> waf: BTW: Thank you for that post re: Facebook.
<cmaloney> That was enlightening
<mrgoodcat> i don't see what is weird about that g+ profile
<mrgoodcat> gender got it
<cmaloney> Also Bali Sorga is a resort.
<waf> you take that back. she/he seems like a perfectly nice girl/guy.
<cmaloney> waf: heh
<cmaloney> I'm sure the person in the photo is.
<mrgoodcat> since i'm going to be playing with DEs should I install arch or leave ubuntu on my laptop?
<waf> i guess i'd go with ubuntu, since DEs on ubuntu tend to have nicer out-of-the-box configs
<rick_h_> though awesome won't show up in the lightdm selector ootb until you edit the .desktop file :/
<cmaloney> I consider this a feature. ;)
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: you must work in tech support
<mrgoodcat> can't solve problem? is not problem. is feature
<mrgoodcat> "security feature"
<mrgoodcat> done: 8 queens problem in a single list comprehension
<jrwren> link plz?
<jrwren> i'm pretty sure, technically it would be multiple comprehensions nested, but a single statement
<mrgoodcat> yes it is
<mrgoodcat> https://gist.github.com/dyladan/9230405
<mrgoodcat> my solution sort of reminds me of prolog
<mrgoodcat> all I really did was generate every possible permutation and exclude invalid boards
<mrgoodcat> I was going to try to make it take a single integer input which would be n for an nxn board with n queens to make it more general
<mrgoodcat> thats the next step
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: I think Haskell is a comprehension in itself. :)
<mrgoodcat_> what do you mean by that?
<cmaloney> I don't understand Haskell. ;)
<jrwren> oh, I thought you were talking python.
<jrwren> yeah, can easily be single in non python language.
<jrwren> python comprehensions are very limited by comparison
<jrwren> does haskel not have a line continuation character to make that more readable?
<brousch> cmaloney: Ball is much less comfortable today. Upper back is aching and have to keep correcting slouch
<cmaloney> brousch: Welcome. :)
<brousch> I think it lost air over night
<cmaloney> It took me a few weeks
<cmaloney> Yeah, you'll want to keep it filled
<cmaloney> Again, this is why I went with the chair setup.
<cmaloney> Though the chair is more forgiving of slouching
<brousch> Hm, strap says it is the same size
<brousch> Must be muscle stress from yesterday
<jrwren> i am all slouch
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: nope. the book specifically states that you can't do that
<mrgoodcat> i just lied to yo
<mrgoodcat> you*
<jrwren> the book always lies
<mrgoodcat> if you indent a line it is a continuation of a previous line
<mrgoodcat> new and improved for readability https://gist.github.com/dyladan/9230405
<mrgoodcat> it is an enormous improvement in readability actually. good idea jrwren
<jrwren> much better.
<jrwren> i like that.
<mrgoodcat> its way faster than i thought it would be
<mrgoodcat> but i guess it makes sense. the cabal compiler optimizes heavily on list comprehensions and it can pretty quickly tell if a board is bad. i wish there was a way to see statistics about how deep it went in each board before deciding it was bad
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: wonder if there's a way to recursively do what you're going with the positions
<mrgoodcat> in order to make it general for nxn boards? there is
<cmaloney> right, but also to keep the code duplication down
<mrgoodcat> its an old mathematical problem i'm fairly familiar with. i had a math teacher give it to the class once. she was floored when i actually gave her an answer :)
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Let's' just say you're the first programmer I've met in person that has grokked Haskell.
<jrwren> you've met in person
<cmaloney> jrwren: Right, as stated. :)
<jrwren> ok I meant to ask.
<jrwren> missed the ?
<cmaloney> Yeah, mrgoodcat came to CHC last week
<cmaloney> y'know. The one in Oakland County that you steadfastly say you'll never enter.
<cmaloney> ;)
<jrwren> I do hate oakland county
<cmaloney> Apparently Boss Hogg has it out for jrwren
<jrwren> truth.
<jrwren> oakland is my hazzard
<mrgoodcat> i'm not sure i do grok haskell
<mrgoodcat> but i feel fairly comfortable with it so far
<mrgoodcat> grok is a strong word
<cmaloney> OK, how about this:
<cmaloney> "has voluntarily posted code snippets that didn't come directly from a book"
<cmaloney> ? :)
<mrgoodcat> haha. thats a long way from grok but i understand where you're coming from and appreciate the sentiment
<mrgoodcat> new programming paradigms is sort of a hobby for me. my favorite was prolog. its so much different than anything else
<brousch> rick_h_: Humid cool maritime is the climate we want http://i.imgur.com/wP9lODb.png
<mrgoodcat_> turns out my function doesn't generalize well in haskell because the size is included in the type of a tuple
<mrgoodcat_> back to square 1
<rick_h_> brousch: +1
<mrgoodcat_> lunchtime
<greg-g> http://mediagoblin.org/pages/campaign.html
<rick_h_> wow, best of luck to him. he's doing what I wish I could do for bookie but don't think I could get the interest
<greg-g> he did it last year, as well
<greg-g> quit his gig at Creative Commons to do it :)
<rick_h_> wow, very cool
<mrgoodcat> doing what? crowdsourcing?
<greg-g> mrgoodcat: doing his own project, which he is funding through a crowdsource campaign, yeah
<rick_h_> well funding himself to work on his pet open source project
<rick_h_> and somewhat successfully
<jrwren> rick_h_: well you COULD, but you'd likely experience a change in lifestyle.
<jrwren> its about priorities.
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, definitely
<rick_h_> jrwren: the goal is 2 more years away
<jrwren> nice
<jrwren> that rules
<rick_h_> we'll see, but hopefully get some college payments gone and lose that $10k of day care and things seem a bit more reasonable
<jrwren> *nod*
<jrwren> college payments being gone RULES.
<jrwren> I still remember writing that 48k$ check and mailing it in to clear off the college debt of my wife.
<rick_h_> then again, it might not be something to do. Bookie is a good hobby and not sure what it would take to make it sing
<jrwren> biggest check I'd ever written
<rick_h_> wow, nice
<rick_h_> well, wife's a doc so :( med school
<jrwren> yup
<rick_h_> though at 2% I can't complain a ton
<jrwren> wow, how did you get it to 2%?
<rick_h_> she did it, hers are all in the 2-3% range
<jrwren> my friends with student loans say they are at 7% adn can't refi lower.
<jrwren> my friends are idiots.
<rick_h_> yea, some of mine are 6ish
<rick_h_> but for the most part they're lower than anything else
<mrgoodcat> i'm so glad I don't have any college debt
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: me too!
<jrwren> rick_h_ and I are old enough that it should be long gone, even if I'd had some :)
<rick_h_> yea but some of got late starts in life
<rick_h_> and respnsibility
<jrwren> that is true.
<jrwren> myself included to some extent
<rick_h_> oh well
<mrgoodcat> I just have enormously generous family
<jrwren> life is good.
<rick_h_> always things to tweak in the past but would't change where I'm at
<rick_h_> well, I wouldn't change that is
<brousch> I think mine were 4.25% when we consolidated in 2001
<brousch> Wife's will be done this year
<brousch> rick_h_'s minions are PMing me now
<rick_h_> brousch: lol
<rick_h_> send them to the public channel or mailing list
<brousch> The damn fool trying to run it on Windows
<_stink_> haha
<_stink_> this is been an interesting thing ot watch from the sidelines, i have to admit
<greg-g> :)
<_stink_> i also have to admit that a gmail filter keeping the bookie mailing list out of my inbox is in order
<brousch> _stink_: Get in there and help weed out the scrubs :P
<_stink_> brousch: can a scrub weed out scrubs?
<brousch> _stink_: Takes one to know one!
<_stink_> good point
<rick_h_> ouch, that kind of sucks that the activity levels are getting regulars to filter it out
<_stink_>  /join #bookie-scrubs
<_stink_> maybe i can make it send me a digest instead
<brousch> It'll pass
<brousch> rick_h_: divyum is the one, if you're doing some kind of scorekeeping
 * greg-g checks the /names list to see if any of them are in here
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, he's the one that won't take no for an answer.
<rick_h_> heh, I've not seen any
<brousch> I must have missed that. I did see his email about trying to run on Windows
<rick_h_> yea, another guy got pretty far with windows and got it running
<rick_h_> but it required a bunch of changes and I had to say "That's nice, but there's not a lot of interest in carrying that around for testing, quality, etc"
<rick_h_> it required too much change to run on windows and most people shouldn't need to run it on windows
<mrgoodcat> that's what forking is for
<jrwren> more than just lots of os.path.combine?
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, because all the makefile automated stuff has to be rescripted
<jrwren> ugh
<jrwren> becuase no make on windows/
<rick_h_> right now it's git clone && make sysdeps && make install
<jrwren> fuck that! get make for windows!
<jrwren> MUCH easier!
<rick_h_> that's a LOT of work in there to dupe for windows world
<jrwren> beleive me, I know :)
<jrwren> I used to play there.
<jrwren> MS refusal to get a standard POSIX stack has held entire technology of the planet back billions of man hours.
<brousch> For projects where I need windows I've started using a custom "do.py" script and a small .bat file for running it
<brousch> https://github.com/van-dam-iron-works/winliberator/blob/master/do.bat
<rick_h_> yea, if you think of windows up front I'm sure you can make this easier and such
<mrgoodcat> i never do
<brousch> Still more work than a Makefile
<jrwren> would be nice if setup.py could do it all
<rick_h_> and I could go through the time to try to build wheels of the python deps, use something windows friendly other than redis for queue'ing, script in python vs shell, etc
<brousch> But I can "do install" and have it work
<rick_h_> yea, that's cool
<rick_h_> <3 automation
<rick_h_> it takes a lot of time to get right, but it easily saves 10x that time later
<mrgoodcat> does vagrant run on windows?
<rick_h_> I mean we've had some 30+ students come in irc and I think the only install issue hit (other than windows) was someone had a space in their path and it broke Make commands
<brousch> rick_h_: Yeah, install is looking really good
<cmaloney> heh
<mrgoodcat> channel has been significantly busier than i've ever seen it today
<mrgoodcat> admittedly "ever" is only like 3 days so far
<brousch> mrgoodcat: This channel?
<mrgoodcat> yes
<mrgoodcat> but also the wmu computer club channel
<brousch> mrgoodcat: Are you in kzoo?
<mrgoodcat> no. but i used to live there and attend wmu
<mrgoodcat> would be a long drive for royal oak chc
<_stink_> mrgoodcat: when did you study at wmu?/
<mrgoodcat> 2010 til this past summer
<_stink_> cool
<_stink_> i graduated 2004
<mrgoodcat> oh nice
<mrgoodcat> cs?
<_stink_> naw, physics
<_stink_> took a lot of cs though
<mrgoodcat> oh nice
<_stink_> you?
<mrgoodcat> cs
<mrgoodcat> started ce and switched to cs
<_stink_> i was there when the new engineering campus opened
<_stink_> that was a treat
<mrgoodcat> pview is nice
<mrgoodcat> or "Business Technology and Research Park" as it's now known
<mrgoodcat> parkview wasn't buzzwordy enough apparently
<_stink_> we used to just point up in the air toward it and say "over there"
<_stink_> because no one had settled on a colloqial name
<_stink_> i loved my time there.
<_stink_> what are you doing now?
<mrgoodcat> parkview is what everyone calls it
<mrgoodcat> now i'm working and taking classes at occ
<mrgoodcat> wait, why did brousch ask if i was in kzoo... is brousch in kzoo?
<mrgoodcat> only kalamazoo people call it kzoo
<brousch> No, GR
<brousch> I have a lot of family down there though
<mrgoodcat> got it
<mrgoodcat> i used to ski in grand rapids
<mrgoodcat> well, I still do i guess. or at least plan to start again in the summer
<brousch> You plan to start skiing again in the summer?
<mrgoodcat> yea. probably in grand rapids actually
<mrgoodcat> at least occasionally
<brousch> Oh, water skiing
<_stink_> aaahhhhh aha
<mrgoodcat> https://www.google.com/maps/place/Placid+Wake+Park/@42.972273,-85.993466,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0xa6e6f48cbb47424d
<mrgoodcat> yes water skiing
<mrgoodcat> i was the captain/president of the team at WMU. Now I ski ameteur individually
<brousch> What the. Why not go on a lake?
<_stink_> ahh yeah man, i remember the ski club from my days in WSA
<mrgoodcat> that is a lake
<_stink_> glad that's still going
<brousch> No, that's some sort of man made ski puddle
<mrgoodcat> haha. it is man made. competitive skiing is just like any other sport. the really serious people do it in designated areas
<brousch> I have never seen this thing before, despite it being precisely between my house and my parents'
<brousch> There's no boat? It pulls you on a cable?
<mrgoodcat> there is a boat
<mrgoodcat> although they also have a cable for wakeboarding
<mrgoodcat> https://www.google.com/maps/place/42%C2%B058'34.5%22N+82%C2%B050'24.4%22W/@42.976247,-82.840119,2231m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0
<mrgoodcat> thats where i ski when i'm on this side of the state
<mrgoodcat> its sort of a niche sport
<brousch> Here's where I used to ski before I got old and fat https://www.google.com/maps?q=Grose+Park,+Casnovia,+MI&hl=en&ll=43.173949,-85.846696&spn=0.027197,0.037336&sll=45.00109,-86.270553&sspn=13.500554,19.116211&oq=grose+park&t=m&z=15&iwloc=A
<mrgoodcat> ever ski in a course?
<mrgoodcat> old and fat? my dad is 220 lbs and 49 years old. he still skis
<brousch> No. I skied behind a jet ski once. That is all
<jrwren> i call it kzoo
<brousch> But he didn't stop 20 years ago and not gone since :P
<jrwren> i spent much time there when wife was at wmu
<mrgoodcat> lol no
<mrgoodcat> i miss kalamazoo
<mrgoodcat> the bars were definitely better there than here
<jrwren> bells!
<mrgoodcat> beer++
<mrgoodcat> grand rapids has pretty ok beer too
<jrwren> definitely
<jrwren> and not too far to oddsides!
<jrwren> mmm... oddsides
<brousch> Pretty OK beer?! We are frickin' Beer City USA 2 years running!
<jrwren> mmm... Founders.
<jrwren> omfg FOUNDERS!!!
<greg-g> mmmmm, founders
<greg-g> god, I almost forgot about them
<jrwren> greg-g: omg Breakfast Stout!!!
<greg-g> mmmmmmmmm
<mrgoodcat> arrogant bastard
<mrgoodcat> ^^ the beer not you
<mrgoodcat> does chc ever go to the bar after?
<brousch> Founders Brewing Company, The Mitten Brewing Co., Rockford Brewing Company, Harmony Brewing Company, Perrin Brewery, HopCat, Grand Rapids Brewing Company, Brewery Vivant, Hideout Brewing Company, B.O.B.'s House Of Brews, Osgood Brewing, Schmohz Brewing Company
<brousch> Hm, I've only actually been to half of them
<jrwren> i've been to more than 1/2 of those.
<jrwren> and most of them are OK or not great.
<mrgoodcat> i've been to most of those
<mrgoodcat> bells is definitely where its at
<mrgoodcat> olde penn is pretty good too
<jrwren> I'd like to visit Odd Sides
<brousch> Actually Atwater in Detroit makes my favorite beers
<jrwren> brousch: O_O
<brousch> I know
<jrwren> they definitely fall under "OK" in my book, and sometimes not good at all
<mrgoodcat> i've never loved atwater
<brousch> Saugatuck Brewing is my favorite to visit
<mrgoodcat> ever been to kalamazoo beer exchange?
<jrwren> Saugatuch makes some great brew.
<jrwren> I've not been to KBE, I've heard good things.
<mrgoodcat> best bar ever
<brousch> Founders uses some hop in its beer that I don't particularly care for, Vivant is always too sharp. Atwater is always smooth
<jrwren> Saugatuck's Neapolitan Milk Stout!!! OMG!!!
<jrwren> brousch: vivant does farmhouse style, which I rarely prefer.
<brousch> jrwren: Saugatuck has some good weird ones in house only. Like a Spruce Ale
<mrgoodcat> left hand milk stout is amazeballs
<brousch> Tastes like a christmas tree, but yummy
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: i didn't care for it.
<jrwren> so far I am not a fan of anything Left Hand
<jrwren> Southern Tier Milk Stout on the other hand is amazeballs.
<jrwren> and all their variants.
<jrwren> Southern Tier Chocolat
<jrwren> Southern Tier Crem Brulee
<mrgoodcat> i'll have to try it
<mrgoodcat> you have to like oberon though
<mrgoodcat> everybody likes oberon
<jrwren> i hate oberon
 * mrgoodcat quits
<jrwren> ok... seriously...
<jrwren> having jinja2 templated cloud-config is JUST AWESOME!
<jrwren> who needs puppet?
<mrgoodcat> anybody ever hack on project euler?
<jrwren> yes
<jrwren> heighway dragon problem 220 was an obsession of mine for a very brief period.
<mrgoodcat> the site is kinda broken right now... keeps telling me it has to rebuild the problem cache
<mrgoodcat> it doesn't seem like an extraordinarily difficult problem
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: CHC used to meet at the Royal Oak Brewery
<mrgoodcat> is the picture for D50 cool?
<cmaloney> back when it was called MI Developers
<mrgoodcat> why did it change to a coffee shop
<cmaloney> Also: Bells Black Note is the high bar that all beers are judged IMHO. :)
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Too loud
<cmaloney> That and if it was game night that could be fun
<cmaloney> ie: not getting a table. :)
<mrgoodcat> makes sense i guess
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: dragon problem 220? no, its not difficult. now do it with an infinite iterator.
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: and draw it using gui toolkit of your choice
<jrwren> again using an infinite iterator
<jrwren> it was fun.
<jrwren> i was using boo and drawing with WPF
<mrgoodcat> now i want to make processing
<mrgoodcat> draw the dragon
<jrwren> i reached the limits of both WPF and of boo's iterators
<jrwren> cmaloney: what category?
<jrwren> tehre is no one high bar for all beers to be judged.
<jrwren> the categories exist for reason :)
<mrgoodcat> the category is beers that make cmaloney happy
<cmaloney> jrwren: It's a barrel-aged stout
<cmaloney> which is tops in beers that make cmaloney happy.
<jrwren> cmaloney: burbon barrel?
<cmaloney> yep
<jrwren> better than New Holland Dragon's Milk?
<cmaloney> I think so
<cmaloney> though they both give me a headache
<jrwren> sounds great.
<cmaloney> but black note was because I drank a shit-ton of it
<jrwren> oh! i've seen that at the store. 100 on ratebeer.
<cmaloney> that and one of Bell's special batches.
<jrwren> I'll have to try it
<cmaloney> jrwren: You have it bottled?
<cmaloney> Seriously, get it
<jrwren> i shall
<jrwren> AA Wine Seller is right downt eh street from me and has an excellent beer selection
<mrgoodcat> where is a good place to buy beer in the detroit area?
<cmaloney> I don't want to give you preconceived notions about it but it's one of those beers that is not easy to find.
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: I'd love to know.
<cmaloney> I get most of my stuff from Meijer but that's hardly optimal
<mrgoodcat> west side of state has much better beer stores
<mrgoodcat> lol meijer
<brousch> mrgoodcat: Isn't there a liquor store every 1/2 block?
<cmaloney> west-side of the state is closer to Bells. ;)
<cmaloney> brousch: You're thinking CVS.
<brousch> cmaloney: Our Meijer is actually pretty well stocked with MI beers
<cmaloney> yeah, ours too
<cmaloney> but they don't get the crazier stufgf
<cmaloney> Like Dragon's Milk is about as deep as they go
<brousch> But I usually go to D Shuler's where they have hundreds of beers and you make your own 6 pack
<cmaloney> Bells has the Ales and IPAs
<cmaloney> (at Meijer)
<cmaloney> sometimes Stouts and Porters
<jrwren> Expedition Stout is good
<mrgoodcat> i'm going to program my cnc to inscribe the heighway dragon into a pane of glass and edge light it
<jrwren> O_O
<jrwren> baller!
<mrgoodcat> if it works i'll let you know. i can make 2
<jrwren> omg, I'm an idiot.
<jrwren> i just realized if I get tired of quoting dict key strings, that is what the dict constructor is for
<jrwren> dict(now='i',do='not', have='to', quote='keys')
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-02-27
<rick_h_> https://twitter.com/bradfitz/status/436578596786667520
<cmaloney> rick_h_: http://mug.org
<mrgoodcat> when i create three workspaces with a program in each one, [1,2,3] then kill the program in 2 i'm left with [1,3]. is there a way to have it automatically renumber them?
<waf> not that i know of, though i3 is super scriptable.
<waf> i personally wouldn't want that. if i have in my head that a program is on workspace 3, i don't want it "moving around" when i'm doing things on unrelated workspaces
<rick_h_> heh, well love the ideas and spirit of biting off a lot of work https://github.com/bookieio/Bookie/issues/307
<cmaloney> rick_h_: yeah, I saw that.
<cmaloney> That falls into the "patches welcome, and please fork the project when you're done"
<rick_h_> heh, pretty much
<rick_h_> "OSS ftw! go have fun"
<mrgoodcat> wow
<mrgoodcat> i haven't ever made anything for app engine. any idea how hard it is?
<rick_h_> it's not hard, but it's app engine specific
<rick_h_> very specific rules on how things run so that they can scale the app easily enough
<rick_h_> the big feature is auto scaling google style if you do things right
<mrgoodcat> do you need that?
<rick_h_> not really
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> would be nice to need it though
<rick_h_> it's a different design
<rick_h_> yea, but then I'd have to pay google and only google to run my app
<rick_h_> hard to transfer it elsewhere at scale
<rick_h_> but hey, nice problem to have I guess
<mrgoodcat> haha
<mrgoodcat> this is amazing http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/kopf/pixelart/supplementary/multi_comparison.html
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<jrwren> he's not mortal?
<cmaloney> Nope. I think he's scored himself his own constellation now
<cmaloney> ever since MSU won the rosebowl
<cmaloney> That deal with the Greek Gods really paid off for him.
<cmaloney> (The Man, The Myth, the Jorge Castro)
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: on http://docs.bmark.us/en/latest/development.html the link to pyramid is broken
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: ah cool
<mrgoodcat> http://docs.pylonsproject.org/en/latest/docs/pyramid.html
<mrgoodcat> is the new location
<rick_h_> good place to patch :)
<mrgoodcat> is the website in github?
<rick_h_> https://github.com/bookieio/Bookie/blob/develop/docs/development.rst
<mrgoodcat> so just to make sure i'm doing this right. make a development branch, make changes, commit branch, fetch, rebase upstream/master, push, create pull request
<rick_h_> I consider this the typical good github workflow https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/blob/develop/HACKING.rst#typical-github-workflow
<rick_h_> just replace juju/juju/gui with bookieio/bookie
<jrwren> anyone using 14.04 cloudimg? It just occured to me that it likely isn't going to change much in the next couple months. I could start testing with it.
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: add your name to the credits file and 'git rebase -i --autosquash' to fix the commit and push --force
<mrgoodcat> it says there is no tracking information for the current branch when i try to rebase
<rick_h_> hmm, git rebase -i HEAD~~
<rick_h_> ?
<mrgoodcat> done
<mrgoodcat> so you don't require rebase off of upstream/master?
<mrgoodcat> or upstream/development
<rick_h_> meh, I do whatever I like :)
<mrgoodcat> i just mean to prevent merge conflict
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: so yes, ideally now you delete your feature branch
<mrgoodcat> shouldn't the person making the pull request fix any potential collision?
<mrgoodcat> already did
<cmaloney> rick_h_ looks forward to merge conflicts
<cmaloney> ;)
<rick_h_> and then you can go to your develop and do a 'git pull bookieio develop'
<cmaloney> The hairier the better.
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: oh, yea so that's just because I know you just forked it over and it was a clean mergable in files not touched by anyone else
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: since landing goes through me I know what's an issue or not for the most part
<mrgoodcat> got it
<mrgoodcat> i like to fetch and merge instead of pull
<rick_h_> typically I end up pulling locally, cleaning up the commit history, running tests, making small tweaks, lint fixes and then I merge locally for the pull request
<rick_h_> well ideally it's git rebase bookieio develop in case you've got any local changes to your develop tree but hopefully not
<mrgoodcat> this is only the third public project i've submitted pull requests for so thanks for the help
<rick_h_> woot
<mrgoodcat> i'm used to working on personal repos only
<brousch> It's so hard to stifle all of my usual snarky comments in #bookie
<rick_h_> :P
<rick_h_> imagine being me?!
<mrgoodcat> haha
<mrgoodcat> i guess i picked a bad time to start asking n00b questions about git workflow
<brousch> rick_h_: I have been impressed with your lack of rage
<mrgoodcat> anybody else having trouble loading assets from github?
<mrgoodcat> nm. fixed now
<mrgoodcat> is there a way to disable power button in i3? or at the very least require a 1 second hold? i've accidentally hit it > 10 times now
<rick_h_> power button?
<mrgoodcat> my power button on my laptop is a keyboard button
<mrgoodcat> above backspace
<waf> i don't think i3 can control that. probably would be controlled via acpi
<waf> or that gnome-settings-daemon (does ubuntu still use that?)
<mrgoodcat> yes it does
<mrgoodcat> apparently the powerbutton is now handled by logind in ubuntu
<mrgoodcat> man 5 logind.conf
<mrgoodcat> i am woefully unfamiliar with pyramid.
<brousch> mrgoodcat: It's like Django, but not as useful
<mrgoodcat> lol
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: :) you'd need some python to help
<mrgoodcat> well obviously i'd need to know python
<mrgoodcat> but it uses javascript also
<rick_h_> pyramid doesn't
<mrgoodcat> but bookie does
<rick_h_> oh..yea definitely
<rick_h_> and sass
<rick_h_> and make
<rick_h_> and ...
<mrgoodcat> for views. i was just looking at routes.py to try to figure out how views word in pyramid when i realized you're using a js framework for that
<mrgoodcat> s/word/work
<rick_h_> well, only to tie onto the pyramid views
<rick_h_> routes is all python and only talks to python
<rick_h_> https://github.com/bookieio/Bookie/tree/develop/bookie/views
<rick_h_> is all python views
<mrgoodcat> hadn't yet gotten that far
<mrgoodcat> so /login for instance, does that load a javascript view or a pyramid view?
<rick_h_> that loads a pyramid view
<rick_h_> all routes load pyramid view
<mrgoodcat> but there isn't one called login
<mrgoodcat> and routes.py doesn't specify auth.py
<rick_h_> https://github.com/bookieio/Bookie/blob/develop/bookie/views/auth.py#L21
<rick_h_> :)
<rick_h_> https://github.com/bookieio/Bookie/blob/develop/bookie/__init__.py#L50 is the magic
<rick_h_> config.scan('bookie.views')
<rick_h_> it loads the module bookie.views, walks through them all looking for the decorated view_config, and matching the names in the decorator to the views in routes.py
<mrgoodcat> sorry if i seem so incompetent right now. i've worked almost exclusively in RoR
<mrgoodcat> at least as far as web frameworks go
<rick_h_> all good
<mrgoodcat> and i have very little web experience in general
<rick_h_> happy to explain
<rick_h_> I like teaching and talking shop (why I'm doing this GSoC thing and do CHC and all that)
<mrgoodcat> so it doesn't matter what file a view is in?
<mrgoodcat> you just have authentication related views in auth.py because that made sense to you
<rick_h_> right, it only matters that it's inside the module bookie.views
<mrgoodcat> ok
<rick_h_> I can name/create files in there at will just to organize where I think things go to ease development
<mrgoodcat> so if I make a GET request to /login I get the view which is rendered using the /templates/auth/login.mako template
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: yep
<rick_h_> and that creates a JS view to make the JS bits of the UI work in that template https://github.com/bookieio/Bookie/blob/develop/bookie/templates/auth/login.mako#L37
<mrgoodcat> which uses YUI
<rick_h_> :)
<mrgoodcat> why javascript?
<rick_h_> because I wanted to learn and try stuff out
<mrgoodcat> got it
<rick_h_> and it makes for pretty stuff and some cool experiences
<rick_h_> much of the app uses the API it provides itself
<rick_h_> via JS/ajax calls
<rick_h_> so I'm my own api consumer. If it sucks or breaks I have to fix it
<mrgoodcat> got it. i've always just used html and put it scripts where i need them for specific functionalities
<rick_h_> I've got my own JS implementation of the api https://github.com/bookieio/Bookie/blob/develop/bookie/static/js/bookie/api.js
<rick_h_> ah, yea that's a mess
<mrgoodcat> i saw that
<mrgoodcat> but didn't look closely
<rick_h_> by creating real views/modules I can test the JS
<rick_h_> apart from the templates and things
<mrgoodcat> on this line, why do you finish with .first() ? shouldn't there only be one instance of a username?
<mrgoodcat> https://github.com/bookieio/Bookie/blob/develop/bookie/models/auth.py#L157
<rick_h_> is you use .one and the user does not exist it throws an exception
<rick_h_> I use .first and check for None for my needs
<rick_h_> the db has constraints that deal with preventing more than one based on primary keys
<cmaloney> Does the DB checking work across platforms (SQLite for instance?)
<rick_h_> yes
<cmaloney> kk
<rick_h_> as long as I stick in sqlalchemy I get all three dbs
<cmaloney> Ah, so SQLAlchemy does the checks. That's cool
<rick_h_> yea, it creates the constraints when the db comes up
<cmaloney> https://plus.google.com/+MugOrgPage
<rick_h_> thanks brousch :)
<rick_h_> I owe you a coffee next pyohio!
<brousch> Hah, well I use Bmark for free, so if I can help a little it alleviates some guilt
<rick_h_> :) well appreciate it
<brousch> Unfortunately I haven't looked at Bookie code since PyOhio 2012
<rick_h_> overall been easier today
<rick_h_> but it goes in waves
<rick_h_> and 30+ people in channel now :/
<brousch> I think right now is post-dinner hacking time in India
<rick_h_> must be something
<rick_h_> looking at google analytics india was #2 for traffic
<brousch> Hm, 1:50AM
<rick_h_> ty GSoC
<rick_h_> hah, late night hacking then
<brousch> Definitely students at that hour
<brousch> If I'm hacking anything at 2AM it means someone slipped some crack in my dinner milk
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: pull request #309 is just more broken docs. you must have moved the repository from mitechie to bookieio?
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: yea, went from my accout to the org
<mrgoodcat> i fixed the README
<rick_h_> thanks
<mrgoodcat> np. both links work anyways but i figured you'd want it to be the organization
<rick_h_> yep
<mrgoodcat> i think i'm going to take some time and clean up your docs if you don't mind. some things could use some expansion and/or clarification
<cmaloney> CEASE AND DESIST!
<cmaloney> *cough*, I mean go ahead.
<cmaloney> ;)
<rick_h_> lol
<mrgoodcat> any part of the documentation you particularly want updated? the testing was what i saw that really needs expansion
<cmaloney> I'm pretty sure the "if you feel the itch, scratch away" rule applies here.
<mrgoodcat> also, since i'm doing this, is there any reason the README is so sparse? would you rather people just go to the documentation website? if so, should the information in the README like the quickstart be in the docs?
<brousch> How can I tell if a program is installed by default on Ubuntu? Specifically python-dbus
<rick_h_> brousch: heh, I did a juju install ubuntu to test that out today
<brousch> To check python-dbus?
<rick_h_> sec, still have it up
<rick_h_> yep, there ootb
<rick_h_> this is on trusty
<brousch> awesome, thanks
<brousch> It seems to be there on precise server
<brousch> So I'd guess it's there on everything (Ubuntu)
<rick_h_> party
<brousch> I guess we're going to use it for kivy->plyer->notifications
<brousch> Quote of the Day: "I have to apologize you, It was my fault and I cant tell you what the problem because of degree of stupidity of this problem. Thanks anywayÂ "
<rick_h_> lol
<mrgoodcat> !message brousch you can grep this manifest, which is a list of every package and it's version installed by default http://releases.ubuntu.com/releases/precise/ubuntu-12.04.4-desktop-amd64.manifest
<mrgoodcat> oh shit no bot in this channel
<mrgoodcat> waf: i switched i3 to use the vim keys. i've hit $mod+h so many times now
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-02-28
<waf> haha, yeah. what are you using for vertical / horizontal splitting?
<mrgoodcat> v and h
<waf> oh. doesn't "h" conflict with the vim keys?
<mrgoodcat> er no sry v and g
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: your program is very difficult to install on arch
<waf> i think i got it running ok. what did you run into?
<snap-l> mrgoodcat: It makes some assumptions about your environment
<mrgoodcat> make is failing on make run
<waf> yeah, some paths are different, and the package names of course have to change
<mrgoodcat> i had to manually find a bunch of deps too
<mrgoodcat> do you remember what you changed?
<waf> no, this was ages ago. what's the error?
<mrgoodcat> https://gist.github.com/dyladan/9262529
<mrgoodcat> i don't even know why i'm still trying. i have an ubuntu box i can install it on
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: it should just be a matter of finding the right headers to have installed
<rick_h_> what -dev packages to replace the ones required in sysdeps
<mrgoodcat> arch doesn't have -dev packages
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: do you have a bin/python?
<mrgoodcat> i have all headers
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: ok, so the make install completed successfuly?
<mrgoodcat> you mean the virtualenv folder?
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: you have a bin directory with python/pip/etc?
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: and it's not py3 compat
<mrgoodcat> oh holy fuck
<rick_h_> so you'll have to create the virtualenv with py2
<mrgoodcat> i skipped make install
<rick_h_> yea, that won't work
<rick_h_> and for arch you might have to tweak that venv step in make to make a py2 venv
<mrgoodcat> python setup.py egg_info failed in /root/bookie/build/BeautifulSoup
<rick_h_>  /root?!
<rick_h_> python --version
<mrgoodcat> .3.4
<mrgoodcat> 3.3.4
<rick_h_> right, read the lines I've been writing here the last 2min :)
<mrgoodcat> how do you make a py2 venv?
<waf> mrgoodcat: it's a package in the repos
<mrgoodcat> i have virtualenv
<waf> the py3 version
<waf> you need the py2 version
<rick_h_> change the command in the make file that creates the venv (venv) to be called with py2
<mrgoodcat> got it
<mrgoodcat> ok
<rick_h_> if you're up for helping make it more compat with arch I'll help with that. It is very ubuntu specific, but I'm not sure of easy tricks to make it completely work across other distros/python
<mrgoodcat> 2.7.6 now
<rick_h_> oh, I know
<rick_h_> you have to set the PY= and such before the make command
<rick_h_> so make virtualenv a variable instead of hard coded as it is now
<rick_h_> and then you can VENV=/usr/bin/virtualenv-2.7.6 make install
<mrgoodcat> too late. already installed it on ubuntu instead
<mrgoodcat> it was way easier
<rick_h_> lol
<mrgoodcat> and now dinner
<rick_h_> ok, well some CHC let's get together and update it :)
<mrgoodcat> we'll make it arch compat
<rick_h_> rgr
<mrgoodcat> i already made a make archdeps
<mrgoodcat> instead of sysdeps
<rick_h_> heh k
<rick_h_> again DEPS=archdeps VENV=... makeinstall
<rick_h_> we can build a one liner to make it work
<mrgoodcat> ok
<rick_h_> Makefile crash course woot!
<mrgoodcat> is the default ubuntu python 2.7?
<rick_h_> yes
<mrgoodcat> so you can change the makefile to call python2.7 instead of python and it will work the same way.
<mrgoodcat> ls -la /usr/bin/python                       ââ(Thu,Feb27)ââ
<mrgoodcat> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 9 Sep 19 14:29 /usr/bin/python -> python2.7
<mrgoodcat> explicitly state version. that way you're covered in case some future version of ubuntu updates the default python
<rick_h_> yea
<mrgoodcat> or is there some reason not to?
<rick_h_> not that I can think of off the top of my head
<rick_h_> but want to investigate and make sure
<mrgoodcat> right
<mrgoodcat> i'll open an issue in github so we can collect thoughts
<rick_h_> rgr
<mrgoodcat> virtualenv --python=python2 .
<mrgoodcat> if you click submit without selecting a file to upload for the import (stupid mistake i know) you get 502 bad gateway
<waf> probably best to put that sort of thing in the github issue tracker.
<mrgoodcat> i did
<snap-l> yay. Finally upgraded my phone to Android 4.1.2
<gamerchick02_> yay!
<rick_h_> cool snap-l
<rick_h_> oh, and welcome back to snap-l
<rick_h_> freenode hate me or everyone?
<snap-l> I had some network problems at home as well
<snap-l> and was a the docs for physical
<rick_h_> ah
<gamerchick02> howdy snap-l. wow yeah, i got disconnected
<gamerchick02> what's with freenode lately? seems... flakey.
<snap-l> Trying to remember all of the things that I disabled prior
<snap-l> seriously considering never buying another non-Google phone
<waf> freenode is/was being hit by a ddos
<gamerchick02> oh that's nice. :( thanks for the explanation, waf
<rick_h_> snap-l: got 4.2.2 today
<gamerchick02> i'm jellus
<rick_h_> nothing big in it, but caught me by surprise
<rick_h_> usually I'm hitting "check for updates" 500 times
<snap-l> Yeah, I had to actually "do work" to make it happen
<snap-l> installed a windows application
<rick_h_> whoa
<snap-l> Yeah, wasn't OTA>
<rick_h_> ok, pull requests and emails done for the night
<rick_h_> survive another day!
<_stink_> hah
<brousch> I'm trying to use dbus-python in a virtualenv and came across this https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=55439
<rick_h_> brousch: :(
<rick_h_> stuff like that makes me cry
<brousch> wow
<brousch> Can't get that patch to work either
<rick_h_> did you try the pure python alternative?
<rick_h_> sounds promising
<brousch> No, I need dbus-python to test this thing
<rick_h_> gotcha
<brousch> I guess I'll just enable system modules to test this
<rick_h_> Current Conditions: -4.5F / -20.2C
<rick_h_> ugh!
<jrwren> anyone do daily/weekly/monthly lvm2 snapshots?
<mrgoodcat> btrfs++
<jrwren> no.
<jrwren> btrfs--
<jrwren> its terribad
<mrgoodcat> y u no like?
<mrgoodcat> there are performance issues in some use cases
<jrwren> nope
<jrwren> very slow
<mrgoodcat> well what do you expect from an 8 year old filesystem?
<mrgoodcat> its not even old enough to drive yet
<jrwren> lol
<mrgoodcat> seriously though
<mrgoodcat> you can't expect it to be as mature as current gen filesystems
<mrgoodcat> like ext4
<mrgoodcat> it may be only 6 years old
<mrgoodcat> but the original extended filesystem is older than i am
<mrgoodcat> barely
<mrgoodcat> better than zfs. "oh you have 64GB RAM in your computer? filesystem should take at least half"
<mrgoodcat> or even worse: "you don't have 64 gigs of ram? disable half the features"
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<snap-l> Good moring
<snap-l> rick_h_: We're really going to have to talk about the support schedule for BOokie. Apparently we're not getting coverage overnight. ;)
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> snap-l: lol
<rick_h_> it was quiet wasn't it?
<rick_h_> I got disconnected but didn't see a ton
<brousch> snap-l: Thanks for volunteering for that shift
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> brousch: DOn't wait up. ;)
<snap-l> How did we ever live before tethering phones?
<brousch> More freely
<rick_h_> I don't know, my wife is already asking if I should up my hotspot data cap for camping season so I can go get out to the campground and work the rest of the day while she finishes work and comes out later
<jrwren> its friday
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: i agree entirely. that is why i've lost all interest in brtfs and zfs
<jrwren> tgif
<jrwren> I did have an idea about a shim boot loader tiny OS that just gets ceph going, add all physical devices to ceph and then mount ceph block devs for everything else.
<jrwren> that might be interesting
<brousch> snap-l: Why are you snap-l today?
<brousch> My body was actually happy to get on the ball today
<brousch> I want to bounce!
<snap-l> brousch: It's great with metal music
<snap-l> I find myself bopping and headbanging.
<snap-l> brb
<cmaloney> I hope nobody submits a package called "requirements.txt" to pypi, or I'll be fucked.
<rick_h_> lol, long running joke there
<rick_h_> I think it's blacklisted for that reason, don't recall if they actually added that but talked about it
<brousch> Definitely should on April 1
<cmaloney> yeah, I think half the python community would be affected.
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: ever thought about packaging bookie in a ppa?
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: yes, but have been working on a juju charm instead as a baby step and perhaps more useful long term.
<rick_h_> https://github.com/bookieio/bookie-charm
<mrgoodcat> oh cool
<mrgoodcat> what is cups port? 631?
<rick_h_> yes
<mrgoodcat> apparently the user also has to be a member of lpadmin
<wolfger> Ok, is this thing on now?
<rick_h_> woot
<wolfger> I'
<wolfger> M
<wolfger> Gah
<wolfger> I'm having a waiting-on-my-delayed-flight party at the airport bar.
<greg-g> I did that last night, only we (Rowan and I) were running down the moving walk ways repeatedly
<greg-g> also, hello Michigan, I am in you
<wolfger> greg-g: ++
<wolfger> No moving walkways here
<rick_h_> greg-g: moving walkways ftw
<rick_h_> boy loves them
<greg-g> yeah, and 4 hours in Chicago... not fun
<wolfger> Who doesn't?
<greg-g> we should have just rented a car when we got off the plane and we would have gotten here sooner
<greg-g> might do that next time, just fly to chicago and rent a car
<wolfger> So what are you back in town for?
<rick_h_> lol of the day https://twitter.com/appcode/status/437896886649757696
<greg-g>  haha
<greg-g> so, with bzr, if I have ssh access to a remote server, I can just bzr push to some directory and it'll create a remote repo there for me, with git I have to ssh into it and mkdir and git init?
<greg-g> (it can't be that hard, can it?)
<jrwren> no, its true
<greg-g> stupid
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-03-01
<rick_h_> evening
<wolfger> cmaloney: bubblegum speed metal? http://boingboing.net/2014/02/28/my-head-just-exploded.html
<rick_h_> hah
<cmaloney> wolfger: Yeah, Babymetal has been a favorite on Metal Injection
<cmaloney> I just played it for JoDee and she literally could not turn away.
<cmaloney> Finally stopped it and she snapped out of the trance. I think her head exploded as well.
<wolfger> :-)
<wolfger> I sent it to my j-pop loving friend. Waiting on her reaction.
<cmaloney> wolfger: She probably already knows about it. :)
<cmaloney> and if not... ;)
<rick_h_> good month for bookie http://uploads.mitechie.com/bookie_feb.png
<rick_h_> :)
<cmaloney> wow
<rick_h_> this one puts it nice. Monthly over the last year http://uploads.mitechie.com/bookie_feb_year.png
<cmaloney> afterrnoon
<rick_h_> party
<rick_h_> wow, had a nap and that was good
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-03-02
<rick_h_> anyone have java on their machine and can help out https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/bookie_bookmarks/-dBjgd0hLR8 ?
<brousch> rick_h_: What does Java have to do with it?
<rick_h_> brousch: that irc thing is java driven
<rick_h_> did you check out the image?
<brousch> Bah, tell him to get a new client
<brousch> You're coddling too much if you want to troubleshoot his IRC client
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> so I should send the reply "your applications has been filtered...good luck"
<brousch> It's really not your problem, and if he can't figure out how to connect to IRC there's little chance he will make the cut
<brousch> Ideally all GSoC applicants have enough knowledge to help, but I've found out some of them know just enough to get through their classes
<brousch> And of course they consume more of your resources trying to help on the project
<brousch> KillerCode sorted it out I see
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> and still can't listen. Had to tell him 3 times to use the public channel and don't PM me
<rick_h_> can't all be winners :/
<rick_h_> for brousch http://goldensnowglobe.com/current-top-10-snowiest-cities/
<rick_h_> I think we're being displaced. I hardly recognize any of the names https://bmark.us/recent
<jrwren> its a lot of test links.
<jrwren> bookie123, qwerty98311, anuraag, saienthan why would you bmark google or bmark.us?
<rick_h_> meh, it's new users trying it out
<jrwren> true
<rick_h_> yea, have to see how many are real users vs just those doing what GSoC told them to
<rick_h_> first thing they do is click the "add bookmark" button and manually enter a url
<cmaloney> Maybe that can be a project: figuring out active users. :)
<rick_h_> heh, yea
<rick_h_> do we know https://twitter.com/0x241 ?
<cmaloney> Yep
<cmaloney> That's ColonelPanic001
<rick_h_> oh
<ColonelPanic001> 0x241 is such a jerk
<rick_h_> play hidden much?
<cmaloney> Apparently he plays that more than Go. ;)
<ColonelPanic001> crap
<ColonelPanic001> I forgot about that. The phone hasn't been reminding me of that.
 * ColonelPanic001 goes to the Go site
<rick_h_> heh
<cmaloney> No worries. :)
<ColonelPanic001> there we go.
<cmaloney> woo woo!
<cmaloney> Yeah, I usually check it once a day.
<ColonelPanic001> not sure if train or juggalo
<rick_h_> huh? I'm confused
<cmaloney> ColonelPanic001: hah
<cmaloney> woo woo <- train or jugallo
<cmaloney> juggalo,
<cmaloney> Whatever. :)
<ColonelPanic001> I'm not a stickler for ICP terminology
<cmaloney> I get disappointed when I realize they're not metalheads.
<cmaloney> then I get relieved that they're not metalheads.
<ColonelPanic001> haha
<cmaloney> Like finding out someone shares the last name but isn't related, then you're happy when you realize they're kind of a dick
<ColonelPanic001> "oh look some black metal fans with corpsepa... wait a second"
<jrwren> wicked clowns gonna get you if you disrespect their terminology
<cmaloney> Don't care.
<cmaloney> I'll just explain magnetism
<jrwren> MAGIC you mean?
<cmaloney> http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/fucking-magnets-how-do-they-work
<ColonelPanic001> miracles all up in this bitch
<jrwren> :)
<ColonelPanic001> my neighbors probably think I'm a lazy bastard. I am, but still.
<ColonelPanic001> Everytime it snows, my wife shovels. Right now I'm sitting under a blanket on a laptop in a warm living room drinking coffee
<ColonelPanic001> my wife is out shoveling and scraping cars
<cmaloney> My wife is doing her accounting homework
<ColonelPanic001> it's only because she says it's just a bit of exercise and actually prefers to do it, but at least one neighbor has to have thought "doesn't that guy do anything?" by now
<cmaloney> we've cut off the out side world
<ColonelPanic001> cmaloney: mercy killing is the only reasonable option there.
<ColonelPanic001> I had one accounting class, and the main thing I learned was I never wanted to do accounting again
<rick_h_> ColonelPanic001: ++
<cmaloney> ColonelPanic001: Well, she's learned never to take it at OCC Royal Oak because the head of the department is pretty psycho when it comes to technology
<cmaloney> that and the whole class is online
<ColonelPanic001> it was the third of the three "foundation classes" I took before I could start the "core" classes for an MBA. That class was the last one. It's not a coincidence
<jrwren> ColonelPanic001: does she mow the lawn all the time too?
<ColonelPanic001> no :(
<ColonelPanic001> I do that one.
<ColonelPanic001> We just bought the house in August, I'm re-learning habits I lost from apartment dwelling. like ever having to do anything outside ever.
<rick_h_> lol
<ColonelPanic001> 2013 was eventful. heh.
<rick_h_> welcome to the out of doors
<ColonelPanic001> is scary. someone turn down that light.
<jrwren> ColonelPanic001: same here. condo to house. this was my first year shoveling since I was a teenager.
<ColonelPanic001> I don't mind shoveling much, it's the lawn stuff. and fixing stuff. and everything else.
<jrwren> i'm moderately handy. who knew?! :)
<ColonelPanic001> I... am less handy. So far anyway.
<ColonelPanic001> learning as I go.
<ColonelPanic001> for example, now I know how to hire a company to replace a roof. There's something I'll need to do all the time.
<cmaloney> Nah, get out there with hammers, nails, and shingles and do a little dance up there. :)
<ColonelPanic001> I have to climb up there as it is and pop a piece of siding back in place, it's sticking out a little. I suspect my wife expects this to be certain death
<ColonelPanic001> to be fair, I have the balance and grace of a drunken fish out of water
<ColonelPanic001> but still. bad enough
<cmaloney> heh
<jrwren> ColonelPanic001: lol, I'd not tackle a roof. that does not make you not handy
<rick_h_> +1
<rick_h_> I'm not going to be doing my own roof any time soon but I think I'm partially handy
<ColonelPanic001> I can snake a drain.
<rick_h_> just have to do some faucets, outlets, light fixtures, etc. All good
<ColonelPanic001> oh, and I did replace and wire an exhaust fan in the bathroom. took me all day but I didn't electrocute myself, so that's good
<ColonelPanic001> I was holding onto the ground wire, literally, when I heard a crash of thunder though. heh
<jrwren> can you rebuild a toilet? want to come do mine?
<jrwren> electrocuting yourself isn't bad. I did it all the time when replacing outlets with the power on :)
<rick_h_> :) same here
<rick_h_> freaks my wife out but it's a good buzz
<ColonelPanic001> I cannot replace a toilet. or at least, haven't done it yet
<ColonelPanic001> I can't even get in mine. the counter is all one piece, and goes over it. I have no idea why someone thought that would work out
<ColonelPanic001> so I can't even get the top to seat on top again. ugh
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> yea, I had mine replaced but mainly because it wasn't that much to have them do it and they took care of disposal of the old one
<ColonelPanic001> disposal? I figured it'd be a chair.
<rick_h_> lol, needed another reading chair in the library!
<ColonelPanic001> perfect
<ColonelPanic001> use the tank as a beer cooler
<jrwren> i wrote a book review: http://jrwren.wrenfam.com/blog/2014/03/02/book-review-beaglebone-robotics-projects/
<jrwren> omg, i just moved snow and over did it. my lungs hurt for a bit there.
<jrwren> this snow isn't even that heavy
<rick_h_> ouch
<jrwren> i guess I'm outta shape
<jrwren> i need muh bike!!!
<cmaloney> heh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-02-23
<cmaloney> Evening
<cmaloney> Morning
<brousch> yes
<brousch> Cold
<cmaloney> Yes, very.
<brousch> Why do we live where the air hurts our lungs?
<cmaloney> Some days I wonder
<cmaloney> Had some guy send me an offer to work on his Zen Cart for his site
<cmaloney> Would you be interested in doing some local work on an open source platform?
<brousch> Me?
<cmaloney> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10373048/
<cmaloney> No, this was the content of his first mail
<cmaloney> I pasted the content of his second mail
<cmaloney> I told him flat out I'm not interested.
<brousch> ug
<cmaloney> If anyone thinks this is something they'd like to do please let me know.
 * brousch flees from PCI compliance
<cmaloney> Though I'm pretty sure most of you would run away from this. :)
<cmaloney> Yeah, you're not going to get PCI-compliant for under $4,000
<rick_h_> yea, just a bit chilly this morning taking the boy to day care
<rick_h_> <3 heated steering wheel
<rick_h_> lol, zencart woot!
<cmaloney> Ah, we used to call that "gloves"
<rick_h_> that's the thing where you can build your own amazon.com for $250 right?
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Pretty much
<cmaloney> And turn it around in 3 months on time and under budget.
<rick_h_> woot!
<cmaloney> Delivered by Frost Giants riding on unicorns.
<jrwren> $4000/week, I'll do it. I'm a sell out.
<rick_h_> hey!
<rick_h_> I don't want to hear that :P
<jrwren> sorry rick_h_
<devinheitmuell-1> jrwren: Just demand payment prior to commencement of work.
<cmaloney> jrwren: I think you'll have to do all of that work in one week
<cmaloney> and something tells me $400 is more what the budget is
<cmaloney> eg: Here's $250. I need Amazon.com in three weeks
<cmaloney> Maybe 4, but I'll need $100 back if it goes over that.
<cmaloney> I dunno, any time someone mentions Zen Cart work I run the other way
<cmaloney> or rather eCommerce sites in general
<cmaloney> Because people tend to focus on the gold and try to cheap out on the cost of the pan. ;)
<brousch> rick_h_: Time to give him a raise!
<jrwren> rick_h_: happy belated bday. I hope you had a wonderful day.
<greg-g> ditto!
<rick_h_> jrwren: heh, nice recovery day from the last few weeks sitting by a fire
<rick_h_> ty for the good wishes
<cmaloney> http://www.amazon.com/Tasty-Minstrel-Games-TTT901-Martian/dp/0984155872 <- $8 dice game that is awesome.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-02-24
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> party
<brousch> ug
<rick_h_> that good eh?
<brousch> work nas decided to disconnect last night
<rick_h_> oops
<brousch> I still don't know why
<brousch> Sometime after 5PM it just disconnected, never tried to run the nightly backup. I can't find anything in the logs yet
<cmaloney> Ouch
<brousch> Feb 23 19:03:38 snowcrash kernel: [26635455.432519] nfs: server nas1.office.vdiw.net not responding, still trying
<brousch> The nas itself has no indication of a problem until I shut it down
<cmaloney> Pebble Time. :)
<rick_h_> needs a pebble time steel
<cmaloney> Yeah, no kidding. :)
<cmaloney> Though it is Gorilla Glass again.
<cmaloney> And yet another effing connector.
<brousch> I like my LG G
<rick_h_> lol
<cmaloney> Well, JoDee sent me the kickstarter for the Pebble Time. I think she's a fan. :)
<rick_h_> hah awesome
<rick_h_> I do miss that pebble steel. it was a great little thing. I do wish them the best on the stuff
<rick_h_> and love how they're the cross platform game in town
<brousch> When can we expect an Ubuntu Watch?
<cmaloney> brousch: Just take some duck-tape to your tablet. Problem solved. :)
<cmaloney> See also: Apple iWatch
<cmaloney> https://gigaom.com/2015/02/24/the-19-billion-question-is-snapchat-the-new-television/
<cmaloney> I swear tech journalists must use a bingo ball machine for their comparisons
<brousch> This just popped up http://swmimakerfaire.com/
<cmaloney> I initially read that as "swimmakerfaire" and wondered if it was related to water
<cmaloney> because that might be cool. :)
<cmaloney> https://www.fsf.org/blogs/licensing/cc-by-4-0-and-cc-by-sa-4-0-added-to-our-list-of-free-licenses
<cmaloney> Very cool
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-02-25
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> party
<_stink_> hello
<rick_h_> party
<brousch> party
<jrwren> kalx party soon?
<cmaloney> When is that?
<cmaloney> March 14th
<cmaloney> Hm.
<jrwren> cmaloney: come! its good.
<cmaloney> I thought there was something else on my calendar that I couldn't make it out there.
<brousch> It was not bad
<jrwren> gonna be even better this year.
<cmaloney> Heh
<brousch> It's at a different location
<brousch> I like the old one
<jrwren> it moves around a lot.
<jrwren> which old one?
<cmaloney> Considering it would be the first time for me I wouldn't know the difference.
<jrwren> the new location should be a lot better than the last 2.
<brousch> It's a on a Saturday now? I don't even get a day off work for it!
<jrwren> wasn't it always?
<jrwren> brousch: github sponsored bells drink up afterward. :]
<jrwren> brousch: did that convince you?
<brousch> Too much socializing
<brousch> I drink 1 beer each night. A drink-up saves me like $4
<brousch> :-D
<jrwren> ha!
<jrwren> stop drinking 1 week before hand. Drink 7 this night.
<jrwren> have someone drive you home.
<cmaloney> Feh.
<cmaloney> THat's the weekend that we promised to get together with my bro-in-law
<brousch> Bring him along
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> I don't think he'd be terribly interested.
<cmaloney> Though I do want to see the vidoes from this conference.
<mthx> Hey guys. I've had a bunch of requests recently to live stream NORLUG meetings. I know MUG started live streaming a while back using hangouts (watched a few live myself btw). Any tips/suggestions or problems I should know of ahead of time?
<mthx> rick_h_ cmaloney : ^
<jrwren> you could email mug list and ask same thing. I'll bet Gib would respond.
<mthx> jrwren: Just, Ill do that. Thanks
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-02-26
<cmaloney> mthx|laptop: Only tip I have is to get a decent microphone (blue Snowball is what we're using)
<cmaloney> Tony Bemus got us started with hangouts
<cmaloney> But basically we have an eventin our community that we try to attach to
<cmaloney> using our MUG page.
<rick_h_> cmaloney: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MINNKyE4fjs
<mthx|laptop> cmaloney: Thanks. I'll try and track down a decent mic.
<jrwren> how was chc?
<cmaloney> Pretty good. rick_h_, derekv and I were there.
<jrwren> does anyone in the area have unused GPU lying aroud that they would like to sell or give?
<cmaloney> jrwren: I think I do. Let me check
<cmaloney> I'll check when I get home
<cmaloney> I might have already used it in another machine
<jrwren> huh, maybe I can just use an rpi gpu or odroid.
<cmaloney> What are you looking to do?
<jrwren> play with remote GL accelerated vnc.
<jrwren> TurboVNC and VirtualGL. Icouldn't remember the names.
<jrwren> hrm, building them on ARM will likely suck. maybe I'll be up for a challenge.
<jrwren> i got them built for amd64 and when I tried to run them, i realized, I didn't have a GPU in that server :)
<cmaloney> Ah, fun fun
<cmaloney> Microcenter has the card that I have for around $50
<cmaloney> at least last I checked
<cmaloney> but you'd have to come to Oakland County. :)
<jrwren> cmaloney: i might come out to a chc someday
<cmaloney> We'd love to have you.
<rick_h_> jcastro: shaving level up https://flic.kr/p/qqQgD6
<jrwren> oh shit.
<jrwren> you crazy.
<rick_h_> mounted up a shaving mirror for that up close assist
<jrwren> you know there is a custom straight edge manufacturer down in Adrian.
<jrwren> Maggard Razors.
<greg-g> I like my beard thankyouverymuch
<jrwren> You should get Wes to take you :)
<rick_h_> hah
<brousch> rick_h_: Hey, I have that shirt!
<rick_h_> brousch: :)
<brousch> Nice heavy fabric for a t-shirt
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, now that my arm can move again thinking of trying the straight razor on the head
<rick_h_> but the new mirror is nice
<jcastro> rick_h_, hah dude nice
<jcastro> shavette?
<jcastro> I like the mirror, I should get one
<rick_h_> jcastro: http://amzn.com/B0000AFUTL
<jrwren> those are nice mirrors.
<rick_h_> jcastro: http://amzn.com/B00O9NCCBO is the razor
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Geez
<cmaloney> jcastro: https://plus.google.com/117116546641443726836/posts/FvNTj1aoPGY
<brousch> I didn't know you were a big Limbaugh fan.
<brousch> I'm a little surprised
<cmaloney> brousch: I'm a fan of him becoming the first human being to achieve low-earth orbit without a supporting craft
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-02-27
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> BTW: Meeting on Sunday at 9pm
<rick_h_> morning
<_stink_> hello
<cmaloney> JoDee playing with her griddle = pancakes.
<cmaloney> <3
<_stink_> o/
<jrwren> <3 griddle pancakes
<mrgoodcat> <3 any pancakes
<brousch> Bacon pancakes
<brousch> Fry up the bacon, nice and flat. Lay down a strip of pancake batter, put bacon on it, cover with movre batter
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> death patties!
<brousch> butter and maple syrup
<mrgoodcat> do you save your bacon fat for later use?
<brousch> Only for the same day
<brousch> I don't keep a jar of it
<mrgoodcat> i do
<rick_h_> jar of it!
<mrgoodcat> you can sub it into pretty much any recipe that calls for oil
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: My grandmother did that
<mrgoodcat> i mostly use it to sweat onions and stuff
<mrgoodcat> also it makes my cast iron cookware super happy
<cmaloney> I don't think anyone south of 50 does that unless they're a culinary arts student
<mrgoodcat> i'm not a culinary arts student
<mrgoodcat> but i'm probably more into cooking than a lot of people my age if that means anything
<cmaloney> ++
<rick_h_> oh man, makes the best stuff to cook up your garlic with and such
<mrgoodcat> i cant wait for it to get warm so i can start making stir fry again
<cmaloney> Seems like a very southern thing to do
<rick_h_> well I do have southern boy roots
<cmaloney> I think I'll need to get JoDee's permission to use her griddle so I can do some indoor grilling
<rick_h_> I had to google that it's safe to keep a jar of it with erica before she'd let me
<cmaloney> hah
<cmaloney> (not that my grandmother was particularly southern that I'm aware of)
<cmaloney> more a farm girl than anything
<jrwren> having a vegetarian wife really is not fun sometimes.
<_stink_> hah
<brousch> jrwren: What would happen if she caught you sneaking bacon into her pancakes?
<jrwren> brousch: lol, are you kidding?
<jrwren> brousch: you cannot SNEAK bacon. The smell permiates. they wouldn't be her pancakes if there was bacon involved.
<mrgoodcat> what about just bacon fat?
<brousch> Switch out olive oil for bacon
<rick_h_> what about just beating cow heart...I mean surely that doesn't count towards anything if you're a vegetarian?
<cmaloney> I think this is why the Japanese can smell Americans a mile away
<cmaloney> we smell like butter and bacon
<brousch> All this bacon talk has made me hungry for bacon. I think I'll have bacon and eggs for lunch
<rick_h_> hah
<jrwren> mmm.... butter.
<cmaloney> brousch: https://plus.google.com/+JimMcCloskey/posts/VwcHfg8WrAB
<cmaloney> You can have it for lunch
<brousch> I really could. There's a Squeezers between work and home
<cmaloney> It must be done
<brousch> My son's favorite pizza is pepperoni and bacon. That is all.
<jrwren> brousch: https://twitter.com/stevegrunwell/status/571397518027829250
<brousch> Sounds gross
<jrwren> brousch: so do bacon pancakes.
<brousch> bacon pancakes are awesome
<jrwren> i dunno.
<jrwren> i prefer my pancakes wiht bacon on the side.
<brousch> Only because you've never tried it inside
<jrwren> maybe
<akelling> https://www.topcoder.com/blog/if-programming-languages-were-beer/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-02-28
<brousch> akelling: What sort of half-assed list leaves off Python?
<dzho> bondage-and-domination syntax leaves python too straightedge to be a beer
<ADAG10> ... Guess I missed some context here.
<cmaloney> Evening
<ADAG10> Evenin'
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> Bah, I think I'm going to timeout in this Go game, brousch
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-03-01
<cmaloney> Morning
<cmaloney> Reminder: meeting tonight at 9pm
<cmaloney> Yes, same as Downton Abbey
<cmaloney> Good afternoon
<gamerchick02> howdy cmaloney
<gamerchick02> i'm thinking of a new keyboard.
<gamerchick02> ACK. WASD is out of blue switches
<cmaloney> I think rick_h_ swore by his Filco blue switches
<gamerchick02> isn't filco more expensive than WASD?
<cmaloney> Not sure. I think WASD might be $10-50 cheaper
<gamerchick02> yeah
<gamerchick02> what do you know about green and clear switches?
<cmaloney> Nada
<gamerchick02> k
<gamerchick02> anyone else know anything about them?
<cmaloney> I wanted to get clear switches initially but I settled with the black switches
<cmaloney> and green seems a little weird. I think they're closer to blue switches
<cmaloney> http://www.amazon.com/Filco-Majestouch-2-Keyboard-FKBN104MC-EB2/dp/B004VKYHP4
<cmaloney> If I were going to get another keyboard I might go with this one
<cmaloney> https://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=keyed_up_labs,tenkeyless&pid=es87u_cc_bbb_al
<cmaloney> Assuming they get back in stock
<gamerchick02> nice
<gamerchick02> the CODE has clear switches
<_stink_> i needed a new keyboard a few weeks ago
<_stink_> so i bought the $6 keyboard/mouse combo
<_stink_> :)
<jrwren> only $6? I think I got the $12.
<cmaloney> _stink_: Heretic
<_stink_> some kind of sale
<_stink_> hehe
<gamerchick02> oh gosh
<cmaloney> Come to the ways of the rick_h_
<gamerchick02> come to the click-clack-clan. we have cookies.
<cmaloney> If your keyboard cost less than a stick of memory it's crap
<_stink_> deep at heart... i'm a miser.
<gamerchick02> i can send you my Razer BlackWidow with real blue cherry switches, _stink_
<_stink_> hah, i'm good thanks.
<_stink_> i'll spend my money on...
<_stink_> geez what do i spend my money on
<gamerchick02> there's a Microcenter down the way if you're having problems figuring that out.
<_stink_> yeah that's where i got my $6 deal
<gamerchick02> oooh
<_stink_> i dunno, maybe hamburgers or something
<_stink_> is where it goes
<gamerchick02> hamburgers?
<_stink_> or heating my house
<gamerchick02> it is so nice outside right now... sunny. cold but SUNNY
<jrwren> i'm too cheap for click-clack-clan
<jrwren> the cherry mx KB is on my wish list
<gamerchick02> join the click-clack-clan with my old Razer BlackWidow
<gamerchick02> it has real MX blue switches in it!
<gamerchick02> :-D
<gamerchick02> the Corsair?
<jrwren> i'll give ya $50 :p
<gamerchick02> for the Razer?
<jrwren> yar.
<gamerchick02> ok. where should i send it?
<gamerchick02> :)
<jrwren> chc someday?
<gamerchick02> damn i need to get my arse in gear and go
<gamerchick02> i've been super tired after work recently.
<jrwren> i haven't been in years.
<gamerchick02> we could also meet somewhere for coffee on a different night or whatever.
<gamerchick02> i'm in Auburn Hills right now.
<gamerchick02> oh and a note of importance: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/02/21/its-official-americans-should-drink-more-coffee
<cmaloney> brousch: i think out go game is unwimnnable for me
<rick_h_> the switches are the same, cherry blue
<rick_h_> wasd and filco and leopold and etc all put together different bases and filco has a more solid foundation
<jrwren> mmm... coffeee..
<jrwren> i've only had 2 cups today. maybe I'll have more.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-02-29
<jcastro> jrwren: I use bcache, bcachefs is something else
<jrwren> ah, I see.
<jrwren> nodoubleg: I'll try 6k files in a dir on ssd and see what the numbers are like.
<jcastro> rick_h__: this phone is awesome, why did you get rid of it?
<rick_h__> jcastro: I found I kept using the N6 I bought
<rick_h__> jcastro: not sure what it was, but I just found I kept reaching for hte 6
<jcastro> oh, so you just preferred the bigger screen
<jcastro> I got one for myself just now too
<rick_h__> jcastro: screen was a little nicer, battery life seemed a hair better
<jcastro> rick_h__: I am in the middle of switching to project fi
<rick_h__> jcastro: I actually went back to the motox pure the other day
<rick_h__> since I didn't get one because of the size, but if I'm running a N6, might as well try
<jrwren> project fi scares me. more ways for google to track my every move.
<jcastro> shrug
<cmaloney> Project Fi scares me: one more thing for Google to kill off. :)
<rick_h__> yea, I've gotten to rely so much on google voice that I'm nervous
<cmaloney> But then again, nothing is permanent
<cmaloney> rick_h__: same
<cmaloney> if they kill GVoice I'm screwed
<cmaloney> I'll have to port that number or something
<jcastro> I dropped gvoice a long time ago
<jcastro> though, tbh, managing fi is so trivial compared to normal telco account garbage
<jcastro> like, I need help, blam, a little gtalk widget pops up and I can talk to the guy
<jcastro> "you are number X in line, estimated 2 minute wait"
<jcastro> I guess having my phone company be more like aws and gmail, with little-to-zero interaction is just too nice to pass up.
<rick_h__> my big thing is that I've just used the one number, done calls/text from the computer, internationally, all the time
<jrwren> i thought they did kill gvoice?
<jcastro> rick_h__: yeah but these days number portability is trivial
<jcastro> when gvoice launched it wasn't
<rick_h__> jcastro: right, but the computer based using of calls/texts that look like your phone number isn't?
<jcastro> oh you mean when you call from like your PC?
<rick_h__> right
<rick_h__> when I travel and such I use that a ton
<jcastro> oh ok
<jcastro> fi has a bunch of gvoice features, I wonder what the result will be, I guess I'll call you when my number transfer is complete, heh
<rick_h__> so I saw a rumor that in the hangouts next version it'll remove the option for sms
<rick_h__> which is :(
<rick_h__> because they moved sms from gvoice to hangouts
<jcastro> hangouts is infuriating to use
<rick_h__> so that'll kill that off and make me use my non-voice cell number for sms
<jcastro> I love that random people's stupid streams are integrated with my sms
<jcastro> it's like, rage inducing
<jcastro> oh, that's something I wanted, connect my personal texts to people broadcasting their dogs on G+, awesome
 * rick_h__ is missing the G+ -> hangouts/sms connection
<jcastro> they consolidated everything into the hangout app
<jcastro> so when someone you know does a hangout-on-air or whatever, it spams you
<rick_h__> gotcha
<jcastro> it's just like they shoved everything into a new app, which is terrible compared to the thing it replaced
<jcastro> so you can't really turn it off
<jcastro> Signal has pretty much everything I need
<jcastro> and Telegram isn't awesome but it isn't horrible either so between those two things I'm set on messaging
<rick_h__> yea, I've dodged facebook but it means I'm an SMS person all day every day
<jcastro> signal has one bummer where the desktop app won't let me SMS to someone unless they have signal, which is a bummer
<jcastro> apparently one-messenger-to-rule-them-all is too hard for computing. :-/
<greg-g> Signal or fgtfo
<rick_h__> yea, well it's too hard for businesses to get into
<jrwren> Messages.app works :p
<rick_h__> oh, the first f threw me off for a second
<rick_h__> hah! jrwren brings in the wagon of trolls!
 * rick_h__ hasn't heard of signal and looks it up
<jrwren> i kinda like the extra irreverance of fgtfo :]
<jrwren> signal is cool!
<jcastro> if signal had an sms bridge for their desktop app it'd be perfect.
<jcastro> the desktop app is admitedly beta though
<rick_h__> but it's like telegram, it's all about getting everyone into the same app
 * rick_h__ is so sick of app silos that you can never get everyone in
<rick_h__> I've got telegram, whatsapp, etc already
<rick_h__> why another one?
<jcastro> rick_h__: signal is the only one that has end-to-end encryption
<jrwren> yup
<greg-g> I hate their desktop app being a chrome app :/
<rick_h__> fine, they can listen in to what my camper will cost me, oh well
<jcastro> it's not supposed to be like a telegram, it's a drop in replacement for your SMS app
<rick_h__> greg-g: soon it'll be FF compatible as FF reworks apps/extensions :)
<rick_h__> jcastro: but only if everyone else is on it?
<jcastro> and as a bonus on android it's a better messaging app than hangouts anyway, so even if you hate freedom it's a nobrainer
<jrwren> EVERYONE needs telegram, signal, whatsapp, slack, gitr, irc, gtalk, aim, icq, y!m, msn, skype, kik, snapchat, and a few others.
<jcastro> rick_h__: if the other person uses signal yes
<rick_h__> jcastro: reading the description the only "SMS" is "avoiding SMS fees"
<jcastro> but the genius is that it's transparent
<jrwren> greg-g: high five!  I hate chrome apps.
<jcastro> like, I install it on jill's phone
<jcastro> and our texts are encrypted
<jcastro> but if she texts some other person who doesn't have signal it all still works
<jcastro> it's basically invisible
<jcastro> so like, you don't have to tell everyone to switch to signal
<jcastro> you just use it on your devices and you're all set
<jcastro> rick_h__: signal is also OSS and has been audited
<jcastro> it's not like telegram where they just make shit up about their security
<jcastro> rick_h__: you just install, set it as default, and you're done, it's nice.
<rick_h__> jcastro: so you can do messages from the app to SMS users not on signal?
 * rick_h__ is on calls so in/out of this lovely conversation
<jcastro> yes
 * cmaloney still likes  hangouts
<cmaloney> though playing "where is my SMS now" is a bit inguriating
<cmaloney> infuriating, rather
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-03-01
<cmaloney> morning
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> http://openmetalcast.com/2016/03/01/open-metalcast-episode-124-returning-we-hear-the-metal/
<greg-g> cmaloney: welcome back :)
<cmaloney> greg-g: Thank you. :)
<rick_h__> afternoon
<cmaloney> How goes?
<rick_h__> I'm global entry now so yay
<rick_h__> but took 4.5hrs to drive to dtw and back in the traffic/light snow
<rick_h__> so boooo
<jrwren> you'll have that 4.5hrs back in a month.
<cmaloney> Global Entry?
<jrwren> me... it'd take me 4yrs to get back.
<jrwren> cmaloney: less chat with border guards when he crosses national boarders
<cmaloney> Ah
<cmaloney> woo woo
<cmaloney> Personally I'd drive to South Africa if it weren't for that bit of water
<rick_h__> yea, I get to come up to a machine, give it my finger prints, and keep on walking
<rick_h__> instead of explaining every time where I've been and why
<greg-g> cmaloney: I hear China wants to build a railroad across the beiring straight
<greg-g> strait
 * greg-g hangs head
<cmaloney> greg-g: I'm all for that.
<greg-g> also, s/beiring/bering/
<jrwren> I think there is a ferry from Chile to Antarctica, then you can ORV across antarctica and ferry to Cape Town ;]
<brousch> cmaloney: OMC is back? Oh thank goodness I was running out of dishwashing podcasts
<rick_h__> lol
<rick_h__> dishwashing, cooking, driving to CHC
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> brousch: I fear for your cutlery.
<rick_h__> wooo! 7-11" now and I'm not on a plane anywhere!
<rick_h__> bring on the snow!
<cmaloney> heh
<rick_h__> I just spent $250 and 3hrs rebuilding the snow blower after this last storm
<rick_h__> and I've not gotten to putz in the truck once in the snow this year
<cmaloney> So are you home now?
 * rick_h__ starts plotting paths down dirt roads
<rick_h__> yes
<rick_h__> though have errands to run in a few hours
<rick_h__> wheeee
<cmaloney> Still playing "where's Rick"
<rick_h__> rick is home until EOM
<jrwren> its melting here
<rick_h__> where M is month or march depending I guess
<mrgoodcat> that feel when ldap crashes and nobody can log in to get it back up
<mrgoodcat> apparently they had to reboot the server manually
<mrgoodcat> students are the worst
 * mrgoodcat is a student
<gamerchick02> sorry to hear about the server...
<mrgoodcat> its ok
<mrgoodcat> its not mine
<mrgoodcat> Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<mrgoodcat> someone elses problem
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-03-02
<jcastro> rick_h__: how was the snow up there?
<rick_h__> jcastro: not bad, they cancelled everything but was like 3 or 4 inches of puff
<brousch> I had probably 10" on Tuesday
<brousch> School was not cancelled
<_stink_> you people are tough over there
<jrwren> "you people" ??  who you calling "you people"?  ;]
<brousch> cmaloney: http://imgur.com/4lqCsRw
<cmaloney> brousch: hah! :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-03-03
<rick_h__> cmaloney: do you know Aaron Schalau ?
<rick_h__> cmaloney: guess he worked at morpace for a little bit, but damned if I can remember him
<cmaloney> rick_h__: Yeah, he's shakes808
<cmaloney> I don't think you met him FTF
<rick_h__> cmaloney: ooooh
<brousch> So is this an Ubuntu phone that actually works in the USA?
<brousch> http://us3.campaign-archive1.com/?u=56dac47c206ba0f58ec25f314&id=953c512f55&e=af6def4e87
<cmaloney> Dammit: new phone was shipped (yay) but via FedEx (boo)
<cmaloney> so it'll either show up next week or wind up somewhere in Romulus.
<cmaloney> never to return
<rick_h__> lol
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-03-04
<cmaloney> Morning
<rick_h__> morning
<rick_h__> and such
<greg-g> hola
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> afternoon and such
<cmaloney> or continued morning for greg-g
<cmaloney> It's a Gygaxian miracle
<cmaloney> FedEx did not fuck up shipping my phone
<rick_h__> cmaloney: lol
<cmaloney> Also: I want to USB-C all the things
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-03-05
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> waiting for my sim to arrove
<rick_h__> woot
<cmaloney> waiting for the words "out for delivery"
<rick_h__> hah, and then waiting all day from there
<cmaloney> yeeeep
<cmaloney> Sorting complete. So close.
<rick_h__> lol
 * rick_h__ says something about watched pots
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> Don't judge me
<cmaloney> and I get email notifications so it's all good
<rick_h__> noooooo, no judging :)
<cmaloney> not having to refresh the page.
<rick_h__> not that I haven't hit reload on a page a few times a day :P
<cmaloney> Oh, I rknow
<rick_h__> but it is funny
<cmaloney> :)
<cmaloney> Out for Delivery! Yay!
<rick_h__> yay!
<gamerchick02> rick_h__ yay!
<gamerchick02> what are we celebrating?
<rick_h__> gamerchick02: that cmaloney has things marked "Out for Delivery"
<gamerchick02> OH
<gamerchick02> YAY!!!
<gamerchick02> that's awesome
<cmaloney> woo woo!
<cmaloney> Not here yet but sooon. Soooooon.
<gamerchick02> what did you order cmaloney?
<gamerchick02> new hardware?
<jrwren> cmaloney: i like your email.
<jrwren> cmaloney: i'm hoping the ending is more along the lines of Lady Mary getting stabbed to death by her younger sister, who was sick and tired of her stupidity.
<gamerchick02> are we writing Downton fanfic?
<jrwren> i guess I was.
<jrwren> but 1 sentence only.
<jrwren> otherwise i end up writing myself into the story and it ends poorly
<_stink_> you kill yourself in all of your fiction?
<cmaloney> gamerchick02: new phone
<cmaloney> waiting on sim card
<cmaloney> jrwren: thats pretty dark
<cmaloney> ;)
<gamerchick02> YAY new phone
<gamerchick02> sorry got lunch/dinner
<gamerchick02> or as they could say... linner
<jrwren> cmaloney: you know me. Dark.
<gamerchick02> dark like the best chocolate? :)
<cmaloney> the eagle has landed
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-03-06
<guest777> Donate me please a BitCoin adress        1Nuj3pwSaXn4GE2WoVEAiDKTaPozo4mpVX)sorry and thanks)
<guest777> pls)
<ScishFottman> Is there anybody out there?
<_stink_> nope
<jrwren> no body here but us chickens
<johnnybravo_> ha
<cmaloney> Morning
<_stink_> yo
<rick_h__> party
<cmaloney> Totally
<cmaloney> rick_h__: Were you at the zoo today?
<cmaloney> n/m, just looked at Twitter for confirmation
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-02-27
<gamerchick02> oh! i've gotten my brother hooked on mechanical switches. ;)
<gamerchick02> he's got my old Razer with blue switches.
<jrwren> nice!
<gamerchick02> yeah
<gamerchick02> gets rid of an extra thing that i don't need and puts it to good use.
<gamerchick02> i was going to sell it, but there were no takers, so i gave it to him
<rick_h> Morning
<_stink_> morning
<cmaloney> Good morning
<jrwren> good morning
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-02-28
<cmaloney> http://openmetalcast.com/2017/02/27/open-metalcast-episode-149-chaotic-neutral/
<cmaloney> http://n-gate.com/
<cmaloney> (Seen at https://www.jwz.org/blog/2017/02/an-annotated-digest-of-the-top-hacker-news-posts/)
<gamerchick02> interesting
<gamerchick02> it's only 6:25 pm but it feels like 8 pm. i got up too early
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-03-01
<jrwren> rick_h: not long ago we chatted about dotnetcore. This is a great summary: http://no-kill-switch.ghost.io/current-state-of-net-through-not-so-rose-colored-glasses/  " .NET Core today is still a half-baked, chaotic mess"  :)
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h> ugh morning
<cmaloney> jrwren: .NET Core is what? The olive branch for people who were jumping to Linux / macOS?
<jrwren> cmaloney: i guess?
<cmaloney> Speaking of .NET, a recruiter wondered if I might be a fit for a PHP / .NET position. After my initial response (hell no) I softened it up a bit so it was more diplomatic (I have no experience in those areas. If they're willing to train...)
<brousch__> Still no luck? :(
<cmaloney> "Declined to move forward" is my new anarcho-punk SKA band name
<cmaloney> Pretty sure the yyears of not working in the cloud are killing me
<cmaloney> that and I'm not a great programmer.
<brousch__> I'm not either, which is why this devops role is a good fit. It's more Linux system setup than actual programming
<cmaloney> Yeah
<brousch__> We have an opening here, but you might have to drive to GR twice a week.
<cmaloney> but again, most of that is a non-starter unless you have AWS experience
<brousch__> Ours is all on-prem. AWS is our competitor ;)
<cmaloney> Ah, lovely. :)
<cmaloney> I'll have to think about it. honestly at this point driving isn't much of an issue.
<brousch__> How's the Javascript education going?
<cmaloney> Meh
<cmaloney> I can't get excited about web development
<cmaloney> but I'm trying to find the unicorn
<cmaloney> in the hopes that I somehow get excited about it
<brousch__> There are so damned many pieces and options now. Give me JQuery!
<cmaloney> "DO you know React?" "No, but wait 5 minutes and you'll be asking me for something else"
<brousch__> heh
<brousch__> A lot of places are looking for specific skills like that because their developer got a better job and they need stuff fixed now
<cmaloney> Oh I know
<cmaloney> they're looking for unicorns
<cmaloney> My favorite is the "full-stack developer"
<cmaloney> I also had a recruiter contact me about a position that was posted on the GR-PUG list in 2015.
<brousch__> I used to be that. But now each piece of the stack feels more complicated
<cmaloney> apparently they still have an "immediate opening"
<brousch__> For a "Python Expert"?
<cmaloney> (never heard back from them when I pointed out that this was posted on that mailing list)
<cmaloney> one sec. Checking email
<jrwren> that recruiter is busy learning about mailing lists
<cmaloney> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/grpug/1em_u1wGpLE
<Zimdale> ....PHP / .NET? O.o what messed up stack do they have?
<cmaloney> Zimdale: likely a PHP front-end to a .NET translation to a ETL system
<jrwren> bonus if its SSIS for ETL
<brousch__> cmaloney: Ah, that is a legit role. A couple of the devs from there came to the last meeting.
<cmaloney> Looking for a developer with php and/or .NET experience and working with
<cmaloney> API's. Also someone with ETL experience such as Talend. I'd like someone
<cmaloney> with a couple years experience that can help with design.
<brousch__> It is basically banking middleware.
<jrwren> banking? who is this?
<Zimdale> ah I see
<Zimdale> That sounds horribly boring :(
<jrwren> yes, but if it pays $200,000, I'm in for a new job. ;]
<jrwren> i tick all the boxes even. ;p
<cmaloney> "Implementation of at least FIPS 140-2 compliant security and data protection" ?
<jrwren> whats more, I even LIKE php and C#
<jrwren> oh fuck no.
<jrwren> nevermind.
<jrwren> FIPS is so bad it hurts.
<brousch__> https://cuanswers.applicantpool.com/jobs/130706.html
<jrwren> wtf, banks don't have to FIPS, do they?
<cmaloney> That was for the Python Integration one
<cmaloney> But what's also fun is I haven't done much with REST APIs either (at least not professionally)
<cmaloney> consuming and using, yes, but not building
<cmaloney> it's not out of my realm to learn, but that's a lovely pit to fall down
<cmaloney> I swear I need about a year or two to learn what I should be
<cmaloney> unfortunately I have less than six months. :)
<cmaloney> (which does wonders for the anxiety)
<Zimdale> a year or two to learn about REST APIs?
<jrwren> cmaloney: its all b.s. anyway.
<cmaloney> No, a year or two to learn full stack development / AWS / REST
<Zimdale> ah
<Zimdale> that makes more sense
<jrwren> you could learn all that in 2months.
<cmaloney> No, REST is pretty easy.
<cmaloney> and yes, it's mostly bullshit.
<Zimdale> AWS is one hell of a rabbit hole though
<cmaloney> but it ticks a box
<jrwren> no one knows all of AWS.
<jrwren> its like saying someone knows all of Win32.
<jrwren> there are too many API
<jrwren> knowing aws usually means, basics of ec2, basics of s3, bonus for elb.
<Zimdale> I think part of learning AWS is learning something like Terraform or Cloudformation
<cmaloney> Yeah
<cmaloney> Possibly Amazon's PostgreSQL spin (Red-something)
<Zimdale> Redis
<Zimdale> er
<Zimdale> no
<Zimdale> ignore that
<cmaloney> Zimdale: Thank you for your time. Please leave your mug on the table.
<cmaloney> ;)
<jrwren> yeah, i disagree. :p
<cmaloney> I'll get Barry to escort you out.
<jrwren> i'm a lower level AWS user. no need for TF or CF or Juju :)
<cmaloney> Yeah, nobody needs Juju.
<cmaloney> ;)
<cmaloney> I just drive out to EAST-1, yank our disks, and use a magnetized paperclip to deploy my systems.
<jrwren> well, not NOBODY...
<Zimdale> TF is really nice because it makes AWS not specific to AWS, you can add a check mark for "cloud providers" instead of just AWS becuase it can be ported to DO or the like super easily
<jrwren> it is great, no doubt. There are LOTS of those.
<cmaloney> I'm just feeling a bit like I did in school: when one day you show up and everyone "knows" something that you feel like you missed.
<jrwren> puppet/chef/salt/fabric can all do that too.
<cmaloney> and they're so "of course" about it.
<jrwren> cmaloney: that is how I feel about the entire nodejs ecosystem.
<brousch__> cmaloney: I agree. It happened really fast.
<jrwren> I wonder if there is a word for that.
<cmaloney> elderly.
<cmaloney> ;)
<jrwren> leftbehind
<brousch__> And I feel your pain about figuring out where to focus.
<cmaloney> Pretty sure I'll be in the bathroom when the rapture happens
<Zimdale> damn kids and such
<cmaloney> come out, sip on some coffee, and wonder where the hell everyone is. :)
<cmaloney> brousch__: It's getting my "you should be a writer, or a game designer" brain shouting at me
<cmaloney> but those tend to not make money
<brousch__> Advice from a recruiter and friend was "Stick with what you know. Go deeper. An opportunity will pop up." But I had the benefit of time to wait.
<cmaloney> I'd rather not live my life fromo gofundme campaign to the next.
<jrwren> cmaloney: one thing I learned is that all these "on aws" systems dont' want you to understand how to use AWS directly, becuase that shows you just how simple their magic must have layer is.
<cmaloney> brousch__: That's good advice
<cmaloney> and it's not like I don't have irons in the fire.
<cmaloney> I do
<Zimdale> Unless "What you know" is Progress >.>
<cmaloney> but the rejections are taking their toll
<jrwren> that really is good advice. I'd never have left the C# world if I'd have followed it.
<jrwren> grass looked greener, but really its a brown world.
<cmaloney> Zimdale: "The world needs ditch diggers"
<cmaloney> jrwren: But you went even deeper than that
<cmaloney> You're platform-agnostic
<jrwren> I argue that is breadth not depth
<cmaloney> breadth got me where I am
<cmaloney> :)
<jrwren> me too.
<jrwren> before C#, I did perl on unix, so maybe I should have gone deeper with that ;)
<cmaloney> I had one interview that really clicked for me. I was going through my experience and one thing emerged from it: I did what needed to get done
<cmaloney> I became a "Team Lead" because that was what was needed.
<jrwren> smart and gets things done eh? go figure!
<cmaloney> I've done admin because that was what was needed. I did web-programming in Perl because that was what was needed.
<cmaloney> Meh, I'm not even sure about the smart anymore. :)
<SneakyPhil> ahoyhoy
<cmaloney> Howdy.
<Zimdale> o/
<Zimdale> It's hard to put "Got things that needed to be done done" on a resume though :(
<cmaloney> jrwren: point being you didn't define yourself with what platform you used. You understood the core concepts enough so you could move from platform to platform.
<cmaloney> Zimdale: It's even harder to put "spent most of my time on SO looking up how to do it"
<SneakyPhil> ^
<cmaloney> or Perl Monks.
<Zimdale> "Master copy pasta chef"
<SneakyPhil> "Researched and implemented ABC to provide XYZ benefit to COMPANY/APP"
<cmaloney> "Sure I can balance a binary search tree. Give me one how and an internet connection and I'll blow your mind"
<cmaloney> s/how/hour/
<SneakyPhil> if a binary search tree could search trees, how many binaries would a search tree search
<jrwren> log n?
<cmaloney> all the binaries it could search if a search tree searched binary search trees
<brousch__> I really love how many remote work jobs are cropping up http://stackoverflow.com/jobs/remote-developer-jobs
<Zimdale> Look at all that javascript :(
<cmaloney> and a lot of Go
<cmaloney> That's crazy
<jrwren> its tragic for our industry
<cmaloney> We said the same of Ruby. We survived
<cmaloney> we say the same of JavaScript. We're still sorting out that mess.
<jrwren> we never really sorted out the ruby. we just moved on AFAICT
<jrwren> who does new ruby project anymore? I don't know that anyone does.
<jrwren> its all legacy rails maintenance.
<Zimdale> We do ruby microservices occasionally
<cmaloney> Depends on the developer. I think Dan Benjamin of 5by5 released Fireside in Ruby
<cmaloney> he's huge into Ruby
<cmaloney> to the point where I think he discounts Python
<cmaloney> Depends on the community
<cmaloney> I'd wonder who deploys new Java code, but I'm sure someone does
<SneakyPhil> jrwren: Sensu is ruby
<SneakyPhil> they just became their own real company
<jrwren> SneakyPhil: never heard of it.
<SneakyPhil> nagios-esque monitoring platform
<cmaloney> https://sensuapp.org/
<SneakyPhil> it's pretty nice
<Zimdale> There is actually a lot of new Java still being developed.
<Zimdale> Surprises me with all the new language noise
<SneakyPhil> some friends say that Scala is a joke, unsure about that
<jrwren> cmaloney: Dan Benjamin is a crazy ruby person IMO :p
<SneakyPhil> the day this world stops running on bash scripts and makefiles I'll go become a farmer
<cmaloney> jrwren: I won't argue it.
<jrwren> google is still a C/C++/Java/Python/Go/JS/Dart ONLY company. no other langs allowed, AFAIK
<cmaloney> Dart
<jrwren> i threw it in there to avoid the well actually reply.
<cmaloney> ;)
<jrwren> netflix uses lots of java and scala.
<jrwren> still lots of new java at netflix AFAIK
<jrwren> I gave up on scala once I saw how much it lied to you.
<cmaloney> Honestly I expect JoDee to get a developer job before I do
<cmaloney> she has the math background for Machine Learning / Statistics
<brousch__> cmaloney: Your task: Build a database and webapp of open source metal music on AWS. Add machine learning to suggest other music people would like.
<cmaloney> brousch__: I need to monetize that
<SneakyPhil> the differentiator is that it suggests other music?
<brousch__> No, it is your showcase project
<SneakyPhil> because http://www.metal-archives.com/
<brousch__> Is that only creative commons music?
<SneakyPhil> ah, no
<brousch__> I meant creative commons earlier, not open source
<cmaloney> It's a domain that I specialize in. :)
<brousch__> You're an expert in the field
 * cmaloney scribbles some ideas
<Zimdale> Just got an email from a "big data analytics" company in Ann Arbor that is looking for sr python and paying $130k
<Zimdale> not sure why I got said email but 130k is a nice number
<cmaloney> That is.
<Zimdale> If you want it I can forward it to you haha
<cmaloney> If you want. Email address is at http://decafbad.net/about
<Zimdale> "The office is packed with plenty of snacks, beer, and sunlight"
<SneakyPhil> Zimdale: got that too
<Zimdale> lol for the same position SneakyPhil?
<Zimdale> Sr Software Engineer?
<jrwren> i wonder if it is DUO or Care
<jrwren> oh, lol, i just got that same email too :)
<Zimdale> I would be surprised if Duo didn't have the reputation such where they don't need to spam everyone in the industry
<jrwren> oh, no, that is an Arbor job.
<jrwren> I know exactly what that job is ;)
<cmaloney> Arbor Networks?
<SneakyPhil> Zimdale: yeah
<jrwren> I think so, although it might be Deepfield.
<cmaloney> I already have a resume in with Arbor.
<SneakyPhil> there's a geospatial imaging company over there too
<SneakyPhil> md something or other
<jrwren> but I think it is Arbor Networks bringing their austrialian purchase co into US
<jrwren> but that was ruby/jruby, so maybe it is deepfield
<cmaloney> I love how these get dissected. :)
<cmaloney> *shake* *shake* *read tea leaves*
<jrwren> cmaloney: you want to work at Arbor? come to SEMJS meetup, meet daniel and see if she can get you an interview.
<cmaloney> Already had an interview. :)
<jrwren> oh, ok.
<cmaloney> tx though
<jrwren> its a bit easier than reading tea leaves.
<jrwren> email says: "for large communication providers and large enterprises."
<jrwren> that is arbor or deepfield.
<Zimdale> The one person I have talked to from Arbor Networks didn't seem to thrilled to be there and she was doing a lot of really bullshit php work that apparently shouldn't have existed.
<Zimdale> But that was a few years ago
<cmaloney> I applied for their build-tools department
<cmaloney> so we'll see if that pans out
<rick_h> didn't jrwren work for them at one point?
<jrwren> cmaloney: oh man! tommy beetle!  he is really smart.  A bit pedantic, but really smart.
<jrwren> cmaloney: that team is cool.
<jrwren> yes, I still know a few people there.
<cmaloney> jrwren: Thank you. That helps. :)
<brousch__> cmaloney: You have to leverage your network to put in good words for you
<cmaloney> brousch__: My network works for Canonical now. :)
<brousch__> I would not have had my last 2 jobs without people I know being involved
<cmaloney> I know. My last three jobs were all referral.
<brousch__> Yeah, but they know people at previous employers and have good reputations
<jrwren> cmaloney: correct me if I'm wrong, but you aren't getting desparate or anything, right? It seems like you are turning a lot down waiting to find a really great fit for you?
<cmaloney> jrwren: A little of both
<cmaloney> I'm getting to the point where I'm being a lot less picky
<cmaloney> but I also want to find a good fit
<cmaloney> that said, it's hard to be picky when there's nothing at the buffet
<cmaloney> part of my pickiness though is jobs that are obviusly not a good fit
<cmaloney> I don't care for Windows, so if it's primarily Windows then I'm going to do poorly
<cmaloney> I don't want to waste anyone's time with that
<jrwren> cmaloney: iirc nutshell in AA is hiring. i hear great things.
<cmaloney> jrwren: Will check it out. Thanks!
<cmaloney> And thank you everyone for listening to me and recommending things to try. I can't express how much it helps, only that it does. :)
<rick_h> flav works at nutshell still I think
<cmaloney> That's a name I haven't heard in a while
<jrwren> yes, flav is still there. I see him there every so often.
<Zimdale> Nutshell looks neat, just the end product looks so boring :(
<jrwren> i'm old. i'd like some boring.
<cmaloney> You're old? I'm ancient then
<jrwren> oh definitely.
<brousch__> cmaloney: The world needs old people. Without them everyone's lawn would be ruined by those damn kids.
<Zimdale> Someone has to be around to remember the time before computers
<cmaloney> brousch__: Remind me to whack your kneecaps with my cane next time I see you
<SneakyPhil> there's a simpsons joke there
<Zimdale> 0http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/044/247/297.png
<brousch__> There is no cloud. It's just someone else's computer.
<jrwren> I read this tweet and my immediate response is, "no you are not"  :)  https://twitter.com/sebis/status/834584845699395588
<jrwren> i'm so jaded.
<rick_h> ? reverse proxy is just...a proxy
 * rick_h doesn't get the special bit
<jrwren> exactly.
<jrwren> i'm being pedantic over "running asp.net core apps using apache"
<jrwren> its a poorly worded title.
<cmaloney> Running Python Applications using Apache
<cmaloney> (and a reverse proxy. And nginx in the middle. And ...)
<cmaloney> mod_asp or it didn't happen. ;)
<cmaloney> Installed mysql on JoDee's laptop.
<cmaloney> it was either that or install Oracle or SQL Server, so I hope I made the right call. ;)
<Zimdale> I feel like I shoulld know who JoDee is but I dont :(
<cmaloney> JoDee is my wife
<cmaloney> http://decafbad.net/jodee
<cmaloney> http://decafbad.net/jodee-page/rather
<cmaloney> http://decafbad.net/jodee-page/ rather
<Zimdale> Ah gotcha
<cmaloney> https://get.google.com/albumarchive/117777908934895049975/album/AF1QipMg055sVauEnVD1Wk1rcZ5vpYH7H2i87PbzvY-M/AF1QipOfuC2kNCXjWcU2ao5BOKi811DWCPgUs5eXyzIk?authKey=CNe9icTVus35Dw
<Zimdale> Figured it was something like that, either wife or daughter
<cmaloney> That's her eating a Beignet
<cmaloney> No kids
<Zimdale> I think I actually met her last pcon
<Zimdale> Ah well
<cmaloney> I think you did
<cmaloney> She was at Qdoba
<Zimdale> yeah
<gamerchick02> she has a nice website
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-03-02
<cmaloney> Thank you
<gamerchick02> you're welcome!
<jrwren> crazy: http://www.mirbsd.org/permalinks/wlog-10_e20170301-tg.htm#e20170301-tg_wlog-10
<greg-g> jrwren: yeah, it's been going around, I emailed our WMF Legal team, no response yet
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> let me guess: the Github terms of service?
<brousch__> hm?
<SneakyPh1l> brousch__: github changed their TOS to be far less friendly to copy-left licensed projects
<cmaloney> It uses language that tends to be used for sites that host projects
<cmaloney> eg: you can't make it so we can't do our work licenses
<cmaloney> but they can be read as interfering with Creative Commons and GPL licenses.
<cmaloney> especially for atribution and sharing
<Zimdale> Soooo move everything to gitlabs?
<brousch__> I'm sure it's not intentionally hostile
<SneakyPh1l> the best would be to host it yourself
<cmaloney> brousch__: That's how I'm reading it
<brousch__> Community will complain, they'll fix the wording, life will go on
<cmaloney> But yeah, it's caused an internet kerfluffle
<brousch__> Any kerfluffle is a respite from Trump, I guess
<cmaloney> respite. distraction. take your pick
<SneakyPhil> illuminati confirmed
<Zimdale> Awe they added the minimap to vscode!
<Zimdale> sublime's got nothin' now
<brousch__> I've been using Atom a lot lately
<Zimdale> Atom failed me when I worked on a big repo so I switched
<_stink_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=457nGTf4fsQ
<Zimdale> hahaha
<Zimdale> vscode won me over huge when writing golang so I just can't go back
<Zimdale> brand loyalty or some shit
<greg-g> while there are two FOSS lawyers (Richard Fontana and Aaron Williamson) who I respect who said to not worry about the new Github TOS, Joey isn't convinced still: https://joeyh.name/blog/entry/what_I_would_ask_my_lawyers_about_the_new_Github_TOS/
<cmaloney> Yeah, I think there's a lot of folks who are just looking for an excuse to get folks off og github
<cmaloney> and this is the smoking gun they want
<cmaloney> even though it's cold
<cmaloney> Zimdale: Had an interview with the consulting firm. Thanks, but they're looking for more polyglot programmers. :)
<cmaloney> and Perl isn't exactly lighting up the boards.
<greg-g> I'm of two minds: 1) sure, *probably* not a big deal and 2) but what about those hypotheticals?
<greg-g> in the end, it's a cost/benefit analysis. Joey's went one way, many others went the other. I'm still not using Github for any of my personal repos :)
<cmaloney> greg-g: Oh I know. It's the same thing that everyone said about Mono
<cmaloney> hypothetically Microsoft was going to be evil about it
<cmaloney> reality: Microsoft wasn't nearly as evil as Oracle was about Java
<jrwren> all the while, MSFT was suing tomtom for using the fat file system.
<jrwren> so MSFT was evil, just not the specific evil people thought they'd be.
<greg-g> jrwren: indeed! :)
<cmaloney> jrwren: do you smell something burning or is it just me? ;)
<greg-g> corporations aren't inherently evil (or good, or even "not not evil"), but the people who make decisions in them sure can make some weird ones
<jrwren> i agree entirely. I love me some corporations.
<cmaloney> Corps have different motivations than people
<cmaloney> corps eat money and shit profits
<greg-g> don't get me started :)
<jrwren> ha! if they are lucky.
<cmaloney> Well, sometimes they shit negative profits
<cmaloney> so they need money to keep shitting profits
<greg-g> cmaloney: and it's actually, they eat labor and shit profits
<jrwren> like TWTR, SNAP and TEAM?  :)
<cmaloney> greg-g: Labor is the bacteria that helps them shit profits
<cmaloney> jrwren: Which stock symbol is "TEAM"?
<cmaloney> Oh, Atlassian
<cmaloney> They took "TEAM"? Puke.
<cmaloney> But even so, we use stocks to measure the health of corporations
<cmaloney> so they look at that number as the end-all, be all for their health.
<cmaloney> kind of like people measuring their health by their weight
<cmaloney> and not their BMI or other factors
<jrwren> i disagree that we use stocks to measure the health of a corproation.
<jrwren> most corporations are not publicly traded
<cmaloney> right, and not everyone weighs themselves
<greg-g> analogies: they're like suspend on linux laptops, they never work.
<cmaloney> ;)
<greg-g> :)
<cmaloney> thry're like rube goldberg machines: an awful lot of work tk amke a little point
<greg-g> that's.... very apt!
<cmaloney> ;)
<jrwren> lol
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-03-03
<cmaloney> Good morning
<jrwren> TIL: if you accidentally delete your tmux-1000/default socket file, SIGUSR1 to that tmux so that it is recreated and you can attach to your otherwise orphaned tmux.
<cmaloney> Didn't know that
<rick_h> morning
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-03-04
<brousch__> cmaloney: Did you start your task yet?
<cmaloney> brousch__: Which task is that?
<_stink_> triggering the apocalypse?
<cmaloney> I'm already there
<cmaloney> didnt' you hear the sirens?
<cmaloney> <- my doing
<_stink_> awesome, finally i know someone famous
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-03-05
<cmaloney> PyPi just hit 100K packages
<cmaloney> meanwhile npm has 400K packages
<jrwren> til: perl 5.10 added a "smart match operator" ~~
<jrwren> really cool
<jrwren> cmaloney: see my reddit comment on PyPi's 100k packages.
<jrwren> https://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/5xhcxk/pypi_is_about_to_hit_100k_packages/deidj17/
<jrwren> its not like there are many single function packages like some other languages packages repositories have.
<cmaloney> jrwren: Yeah
<cmaloney> jrwren: http://www.modulecounts.com/
<cmaloney> PyPI averages 67 packages per day. npm averages 540.
<jrwren> again... single function packages
<jrwren> and see the comment on reddit thread about pythons one right way philosophy v. the world of node and js
<cmaloney> i just found that funny, more than anything
<cmaloney> i know there are differing philosophies
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-02-26
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h> Morning
<cmaloney> How's the day so far?
<greg-g> had ops yell at us to revert something during our team meeting, so starting off well :)
<greg-g> something we deployed, but someone else wrote (we deploy 98% of things)
<cmaloney> Lovely
<greg-g> it was a fix to cache something which in turn somehow made some db queries take 20 seconds longer than normal (200ms). now in the hands of the team who broke it to figure it out and write an incident report :)
<cmaloney> Yay being part of operations
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-02-27
<waldo323> good morning
<cmaloney> Howdy
<waldo323> i have a usb flash drive that seems to not like to get written to...have you had (m)any which didn't work when you got them?
<cmaloney> Out of the box?
<waldo323> pretty much
<waldo323> I bought it Sunday
<cmaloney> What sort of errors is it giving?
<waldo323> input output errors
<waldo323> tried reformatting with gparted and it failed as well
<cmaloney> Take it back and get another one
<waldo323> yeah great idea, will have to wait till tomorrow
<waldo323> also brb
<Scary_Guy> what brand?
<brousch> waldo323: Does it have a secret read/write switch on it? I've run into those
<cmaloney> I've only run into those on SD cards, not USB keys. Are they present on USB keys too?
<waldo323> no switch present
<waldo323> it was one of the retractable cruzers
<waldo323> during my lunch, costco let me return it :)
<waldo323> i got another and it works well so far
<cmaloney> Cool.
<cmaloney> Yeah, if it isn't allowing you to write then the liklihood that the SSD is borked and trying to error correct is high
<waldo323> it was getting really warm too
<Scary_Guy> weird, usually if it gets really warm I'll open it up and glue a heatsync on it
<waldo323> brand new and it wouldn't let me write to it so I was happy to return it
<Scary_Guy> works well for power adapters too, though I usually leave them encased and just watch them so they don't explode
<Scary_Guy> yeah, it happens sometimes.  you'd think they'd plug them into a machine before it leaves the factory to check that
<Scary_Guy> the error rate is probably low enough though that they don't bother and just deal with returns
<waldo323> i have at least 2 others of the same type/size and gave one away as well...all of those work well
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-02-28
<cmaloney> Good morning
<Scary_Guy> greetings
<waldo323> good almost noon
<waldo323> except i think this support call will cause me to miss lunch
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-03-01
<rick_h> party
<cmaloney> whee
<cmaloney> rick_h: Are you still out and about?
<rick_h> cmaloney: home and about
<rick_h> got back last night
<cmaloney> Ah, so you're responsible for the upcoming snow. :)
<rick_h> pretty much
<cmaloney> How was the biking?
<rick_h> though I see it'll warm and melt the week after
<rick_h> the biking was good
<rick_h> so so sore
<cmaloney> Awesome
<rick_h> yea, was fun stuff. Trip went off well despite some rain and the wife had a great time so bonus points
<rick_h> https://photos.app.goo.gl/KzNQ1LCCJO3I7djh1
<cmaloney> Nice!
<cmaloney> JoDee wants to know what the "brain dick" photo is
<rick_h> lol
<rick_h> so it was at the art museum and erica thought it was some sort of intestine thing
<rick_h> if you zoom in you can see lettering
<rick_h> so it's some sort of crazy "good humor bar" art
<cmaloney> The sad thing is you had enough info from "brain dick" to know what it was
<jrwren> TIL: codeweavers sells a crossover for chromeos
 * rick_h wonders what a crossover is (thought it was a wanna-be SUV)
<jrwren> commercial front end to wine
 * brousch wonders what a commercial frontend to wine is (thought it was a tasting room)
<jrwren> brousch: wine is not an emulator.
<jrwren> brousch: ya know how MSFT made windows subsystem for linux, which just maps syscalls and tries to be linux?
<jrwren> Wine is like that only 20yrs older and since windows isn't open source it has to reimplement every windows API.
<jrwren> Run windows software in linux.
<jrwren> This is becoming HUGELY more important now that windows is more unusable than ever.
<brousch> I know. I was being a troll :P
<jrwren> Windows 10 is so bad, I'm suddenly HUGELY interested in wine.
<brousch> Although I admit I didn't know people were still using it
<cmaloney> Crossover is actually pretty awesome
<cmaloney> as soon as Windows 7 goes away I'll likely be more interested in Wine
<cmaloney> I've used it for some games but sadly those I lost interest in the games so I haven't re-upped
<cmaloney> plus they would crash for no apparent reason
<waldo323> (late to the conversation) there used to be another frontend for wine which was specifically tailored for games
<jrwren> i'm that kind of snob.
<jrwren> awk sucks. i love gawk.
<cmaloney> I love the GNU variants of commands
<jrwren> i just had ANOTEHR case that awk couldn't handle, but gawk could.
<jrwren> mawk probably could too.
<cmaloney> hawk would just eat it
<jrwren> lol
<jrwren> problem with my hatred of win10 driving me to linux is that desktop linux is somehow actually worse. The trend to remove menus... a 33+yr old concept which worked very well for those 33 yr...
<jrwren> i hate software.
<cmaloney> jrwren: Problem is we're the old curmudgeons
<cmaloney> now everything is buried under a hamburger menu
<cmaloney> or three dots
<cmaloney> and only 30% of the functionality is exposed to the user
<cmaloney> we have the same chuckleheads who thougt that the registry was a great idea
<brousch> Xubuntu
<brousch> Embrace the hamster
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-03-02
<jrwren> sadly, it was thunderbird which triggered that rant :(
<Scary_Guy> windownes 10 is horrible, however you should look up classic startmenu and especially bblean
<Scary_Guy> although I'm not even sure if bblean will still work
<waldo323> start10 from stardock (from plymouth, mi) is also a nice alternative start menu
<waldo323> ...I should look at time stamps
<brousch> My sister works at stardock
<waldo323> sweet!   when I was looking for a new position it didn't look like they had need for a linux guy
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-03-03
<brousch> Hah, no, I badgered her for years about their lack of Linux support
<brousch> Very much MS shop
<jrwren> i can't imagine there is any market for selling linux desktop software.
<brousch> One of the games finally worked via wine, but I got bored after an hour and never played it again
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h> morning (for a bit more)
<cmaloney> heh
<Scary_Guy> Stardock had some okay stuff, but the proprietary aspect was a turnoff eventually once I learned about the glory of FOSS
<Scary_Guy> although if they ever got Nemoshell working that would be worth it
<Scary_Guy> So, my media center blew up a while ago.  A friend sent me an Atom board and I hooked up my hard disk with Linux Mint on it.  I managed to get it to show the GRUB2 bootmenu but after that it just shows a dash blinking really fast.  Anybody have any ideas?
<Scary_Guy> it's coming off a regular chipset so I'm not sure if it's freaking out about that, but from what I've read it should still understand the instruction set
<Scary_Guy> it's an older system, it's possible it can't do 64 bit, only thing I can think of though
<jrwren> best find out if it is 64bit or not.
<jrwren> hwat model atom?
<Scary_Guy> got a mobo manual with it, date is 2006, so yeah not 64 bit
<Scary_Guy> it's a VIA CN700
<jrwren> oh, not even real Atom.
<Scary_Guy> apparently not
<Scary_Guy> on the plus side there really isn't anything important on the OS, so I can just wipe it and reinstall with something it will understand
<jrwren> openelec on a pi not good enough?
<jrwren> err sorry, libreelec.
<Scary_Guy> I've got a pi3b I tried it on, boy is that choppy
<jrwren> really? What video are you trying to play?
<jrwren> 4k or something?
<Scary_Guy> I tried that, the other one, and Raspbian
<Scary_Guy> just Netflix
<jrwren> I use a pi2 and it plays all 1080p h264
<jrwren> oh, i don't know anything about netflix.
<Scary_Guy> I'm sure it would play other video fine, it's just that and Amazon which would probably work similarly bad are the big issues
<Scary_Guy> they look like they run at about 8 FPS
<Scary_Guy> I'll probably just end up making the pi a pihole or something neat, I have two of them. One I bought and the other a friend won at MUG and gave to me because I guess he didn't have time to mess with it
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-03-04
<cmaloney> nice
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-02-24
<cmaloney> morning
<_stink_> happy monday
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-02-25
<jrwren> wolfger: did your twitter get hacked?
<wolfger> Did something other than a sweepstakes entry get posted? :-D
<wolfger> Because I pretty much never actually use Twitter for anything else anymore
<jrwren> oh, ok. i thout it was spam from a bot that hacked your acct
<wolfger> What, do I not look like the yoga type to you?
<jrwren> it's been so many years, I don't remember what you look like.
<jrwren> but... no... i don't recall you as the yoga type.
<jrwren> widox is more the yoga type in my mind, for whatever reason.
<wolfger> Well, I do appreciate your concern. I checked my account, and nothing has been posted that I didn't post. No, I don't have a "typical" yoga body, but I have been doing yoga about 2 years now.
<jrwren> cool.
<jrwren> hey, I just got my first yoga mat a few days ago... but it isn't for yoga.
<jrwren> that said, I love yoga. it is a great workout.
<wolfger> LOL. What did you get the mat for, then?
<jrwren> other things I do on the floor in my basement. I've been doing PT for a knee injury and got tired of the cold basement floor
<cmaloney> ouch
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-02-26
<Scary_Guy> So, nothing fun and dirty like we all thought :P
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-02-27
<jrwren> CVE-2020-8813 i forgot cacti was a thing
<cmaloney> what was cactii agaib? other than the plural of cactus
<jrwren> an automated mrtg system
<jrwren> tie all your mrtgs togeteher with config for adding them.
<jrwren> webui
<cmaloney> ah, oj
<cmaloney> ok
<jrwren> https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2020/02/flaw-in-billions-of-wi-fi-devices-left-communications-open-to-eavesdroppng/
<cmaloney> yeah, that's a fun one
<greg-g> I just found out my smart vacuum robot can let people see my house insides: https://www.cnet.com/news/hackers-can-peep-through-this-smart-vacuums-camera-research-shows/ (the one pictured, in fact)
<greg-g> good thing we rarely use it :/
<cmaloney> greg-g: Oh that's nice.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-02-28
<wolfger> Awesome (re: smart vacuum story)
<wolfger> morning. Happy Friday.
<cmaloney> morning
<Scary_Guy> Smart anything is horrible.  Most of it is from China anyway and most security is a an afterthought at best and backdoored at worst.
<Scary_Guy> In fact it's suggested to buy a separate router and hook in the devices through that so it's segregated from the rest of the systems/the internet.
<Scary_Guy> Don't even get me started on how most of it is closed source proprietary voodoo so you don't know what it's doing.
<jrwren> bonus if you don't put it on the internet at all.
<jrwren> Focal Fossa feature freeze
<jrwren> fun to say
<Scary_Guy> yeah, that's what I meant by "/the internet." Though many people like to have that so they can connect to it with their smartphones from anywhere in the world.  That seems only useful though for a few things.  Raising the temp before you get home so it's comfy and having a security system that you monitor yourself so you can call the cops/fire departments if needed are the only two I can really think of
<Scary_Guy> though off the top of my head.
<jrwren> i agree.
<jrwren> My bed is on the internet, even though it has BT and could talk direct to my phone, that isn't how it works. it is also on wifi, talks to bed servers in amazon, then phone talks to those servers to tell me about previous nights sleep.
<jrwren> its pretty stupid for what it is.
<greg-g> jrwren: hey, what are your thoughts on the stock market right now? :) :) I always like your opinions/insight
<jrwren> great buying opportunity.
<jrwren> a lot of big companies are still overvalued. all the FAANG is still overvalued.
<jrwren> but 15% dip in s&p500 is exactly the kind of crash we needed.
<jrwren> and that is only so far.
<jrwren> honestly, we could probably do with another 15% concentrated only in FAANG.
<jrwren> I'm always happy to talk about sotck market, but be warned - i have no idea wtf i'm takling about and I'm usually wrong.
<jrwren> I've lost so much on bad stock pics I don't even want to think about it.
<jrwren> but...
<jrwren> my latest strat, copied from a random web forum... is doing pretty well right now.
<jrwren> UPRO+TMF.
<greg-g> hehe, I have ZERO knowledge when it comes to individual stock picks. I'm all in index funds or retirement date funds (and some left over money from my dad in Dodge & Cox mostly)
<cmaloney> Get out of Dodge
<cmaloney> sorry, Had to be said
<greg-g> cmaloney: :P
<greg-g> jrwren: huh, TMF looks like it's always doing great?
<jrwren> sure, upro is down 28% this week, but TMF is 9%.
<jrwren> greg-g: yeah, I hope so.
<jrwren> I'm mostly in index funds too. Ijust like to play a little on the side.
<jrwren> but ya know... some folks have been saying a crash is coming for a while now. Hopefully this is it.
<jrwren> although, I still think a lot of stuff is overpriced out there.
<greg-g> yup
<greg-g> agreed
<greg-g> my wife is freaking out and asking me to sell our index fund :(
<jrwren> no, why would you sell on a down turn.
<jrwren> now is when you buy more.
<jrwren> I bought more on Monday... oops, a few days early.
<greg-g> she believes it'll go down more based on what the news says
<jrwren> who knows, maybe a month early.
<jrwren> can't predict the stock market.
<jrwren> I ain't sold nothing.
<jrwren> I wish I had more cash to buy.
<greg-g> we've been arguing all morning about this :)
<jrwren> if you sell, then you won't make gains when the market turns around.
<jrwren> you can't time the market.
<jrwren> if you really believe you can time the market, then why haven't you been buying and selling many times in the past?
<greg-g> jrwren: she said she would have sold right before trump was elected and admits that would have been the wrong move.
<greg-g> she just thinks we'll get it on the up-swing and just lose a little.
<jrwren> also, there is a truth I heard during the 2008 crisis, hopefully I can recall it correctly: There are more up days than down days, but not all up days are equal, there are few big up days that make up a majority of gains. If you miss out on them, your avg return ends up being lower, much lower, to the point you may as well be in pure bonds.
<greg-g> I think the fact that we want to do a kitchen remodel soon is most of this, even though we have a chunk of the money needed to do that and can probably get a low rate loan soon to do cover the rest
<greg-g> yup
<jrwren> yeah, I thought about leaving market with trump in office... obviously with 30% returns in 2019 that would have been a stupid move.
<greg-g> yup!
<greg-g> I was like "when would you have rebought?" ... "at a loss later"  ... ... ... ... ... ..
<jrwren> stay the course.
<jrwren> also, it turns out a lot of my investments aren't pure stock market. wealthfront and tiaa both put things in bond and other non-stock funds for me.
<greg-g> yeah, I noticed that too
<jrwren> all that said... i sure wish I'd sold more of my CSCO RSUs when they were granted recently :)
<greg-g> heh
<cmaloney> Honestly if you treat the stock market as a savings account you'll do poorly
<cmaloney> you have to consider it a shitty IRA
<jrwren> yup. it is all about when you need your dollars.
<greg-g> yuuup
<jrwren> i ahve the luxury of not needing them for at least 10 yrs... so i am agressive and take lots of risk
<cmaloney> I'm just waiting for the eventual destruction of the planet
<cmaloney> best retirement plan ever.
<jrwren> pessemist!
<jrwren> i'm optimistic.
<cmaloney> This is my optimism
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-03-01
<jrwren> i just added https://raw.githubusercontent.com/anudeepND/youtubeadsblacklist/master/domainlist.txt to my pihole blocklists. fingers crossed for less YT ads
<Scary_Guy> I just use ublock origin.  What are youtube ads?
<jrwren> yeah.. i used to, now browsers don't allow such plugins.
<jrwren> also.... i think it is working, so that is cool
<Scary_Guy> They don't?  News to me.
<Havenstance> jrwren, I'm actually working on getting my pihole back up and running now, that's one of my main blocklists there. I have a couple others I can pull of the PC later too
<Havenstance> also anyone know anything about setting up Ubuntu so that /boot, /, and /home are all stored on a network share? My idea is have one directory in my storage drive that has /home, /boot, and / for each FS located on it. I'm sure it can be done thru fstab, but I also know one wrong move and it's fubar
