#ubuntu-artwork 2005-09-12
<volvoguy> hi kids. 
<AndyFitz> g'day aaron 
<volvoguy> howdy Andrew.
<volvoguy> we need some art.ubuntu.com admins. since i still haven't totally matched names to irc handles, have any of you regulars here volunteered yet?
* AndyFitz puts his hand up
<volvoguy> excellent, excellent. 
<volvoguy> miketech, are you back among the Ubuntu-ites? :)
<volvoguy> how about Oliver, Jorge?
<miketech> good morning
<miketech> ? volvoguy ?
<volvoguy> yes sire?
<miketech> what are ubuntu-ites? *g*
<volvoguy> it is a culture of super intelligent computer users. :)
<volvoguy> we were just looking for some art.ubuntu.com admins earlier and thought you might be interested becasue of your involvement with both AGO and gnome-art. 
<miketech> ah :)
<miketech> but no, thanks. 
<miketech> i will try to focus on gnome-art in the future
<volvoguy> hehe. ok. i just told Canonical that you're someone i'd trust with that authority. i'm pretty sure they won't force you to do it. :)
<miketech> oh thanks
<volvoguy> i'm looking forward to ubuntu and gnome-art integration. :)
<miketech> yeah in one week my last exam is taken and then i have more time for gnome-art again
<volvoguy> woohoo! (and good luck!)
<miketech> thanks :)
<miketech> but i will stay here in ubuntu-artwork channel
<miketech> its so comfortable in here :)
<volvoguy> yeah. nice and quiet... 
<miketech> yeah :)
<miketech> http://art.ubuntu.com/backgrounds/ubuntu/16
<miketech> why is it a tar archive?
<miketech> with an xcf file ?
<volvoguy> it's gzipped too. presumably to reduce file size. 
<miketech> hm
<volvoguy> *shrug* i still haven't logged in as admin to figure stuff out yet. 
<miketech> but then it shouldnt be described as png file.
<miketech> and people cant use it as background 
<miketech> they have to extract it first, change it to png and so on
<volvoguy> well, there's two files listed. the PNG and the gzipped file is probably the layered original. i actually kinda like to see that, so less experienced users can see how people put images together .
<volvoguy> simple though they may be.
<miketech> ah havent seen that these are two different files
<volvoguy> yeah. it looks like we need a bullet or something in there to designate two files. 
<miketech> on AGO we had some new ideas for this
<miketech> http://files.myeburg.net/art_gnome/download4.png
<volvoguy> i'll let henrik know, as he seems to be getting along well with the other AGO people.
<miketech> but still not sure, how we will do it next time
<volvoguy> so in that screenie, is the big "download now" thing a tarball of all related files? 
<volvoguy> i like the color variation where the filenames are. 
<volvoguy> are the AGO guys pretty web standard compliant? i'm kind of a fanatic, so that was the first thing i was going to look at in the code. :)
<miketech> the big download now button only was a mockup. we are not sure too, what it downloads *g*
<volvoguy> hehe.
<miketech> AGO should be web standard compliant yup
<volvoguy> i do like the image icon and filename for the download section. i'm not sure where henrik got the weird numbering scheme we seem to be using. 
<miketech> hehe
<volvoguy> i need to see if henrik made a package or tarball of the AGO code so I could run it locallly. now that it's live i don't want to risk breaking anything.
<miketech> yup right. ago also is installed on another server
<miketech> for testing
<volvoguy> nice. a sandbox would make me feel more at ease. 
<volvoguy> i joined the artweb mailing list so i can help contribute back to the code that got us (finally) launched.
<miketech> cool
<volvoguy> i need to change that header on our site too. it kinda looks like a hack.
<volvoguy> i think "artwork for humans" would be a better tagline. 
<volvoguy> hey, i've spent way too much tmie sitting in this office chair today. i'm going to go crash i think. i'll catch you later miketech.
<miketech> oki bye 
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-artwork:irc.freenode.net] : why is the ubuntu font not packaged ? it is ! install ttf-ubuntu-title on breezy ;) ROCK AND ROLL
#ubuntu-artwork 2005-09-13
<nekohayo> oh hey, is anyone here working on usplash?
<kafeine> 'mornin
<volvoguy> howdy kafeine 
<kafeine> mm.. i think that the icons-page of the wiki would be just a bit more useful, if there was a link for the most recent uploaded verion of the icons..
<kafeine> just a thought
<volvoguy> at this point there are only two people working on the icons and they have nothing to do with that page that was created. it can probably be deleted. 
<volvoguy> there's just no way to do a versioning system with a wiki. apparently Andrew has one up and working for the icons, but since he's doing them himself for now, it doesn't really effect us ATM.
<volvoguy> at this point, i just want to see ART! :o) put it on your webpage, put it on the ubuntu art page, put it anywhere - and then we can discuss from there what might be good to "promote" for use in Breezy.
<volvoguy> if we get our butts in gear, we can still get a lot done. 
<volvoguy> (i'm criticizing myself as well. i just have my medical problems as a bit of an excuse). 
<volvoguy> speaking of medical problems, my drugs all just kicked in at once and i'm about to pass out. i'll probably be back in a few hours when i need moe meds. until then, later all.
#ubuntu-artwork 2005-09-14
<kamstrup> ArtworkDeadline fast approaching I was wondering whether I could lend a hand at soemthing...
<kamstrup> Browsing around I gather that the wiki is not the place to catch up...
<kamstrup>  - so where would I do that?
#ubuntu-artwork 2005-09-15
<volvoguy> hi all.
<volvoguy> anybody want to work on some artwork for a gtk jabber client called gajim?
<daeb> hello
<daeb> smbdy here ?
#ubuntu-artwork 2005-09-16
<nekohayo> anybody know if it's planned to have a border around the usplash progress bar?
<nekohayo> not having one seems a little strange as you can't know where it "ends"
<huw_> Hi people. I am interested in helping Ubuntu look good, so I began by making my first ever theme. you can see it here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=64390
<AndyFitz> huw_ the metacity theme is great
#ubuntu-artwork 2005-09-18
<woodwizzle> Oh nice! and ubuntu font now
<woodwizzle> man i want breezy
<nekohayo> :)
<nekohayo> is someone from the usplash team around?
<volvoguy> i put the font on my site if you want it. http://www.volvoguy.net/ubuntu/ (it's near the bottom)
<lllmanulll> Hey there, could anybody tell me how I can upload a couple of icons on some wiki and have them reviewed ?
<lllmanulll> I took a look at art.ubuntu.com, but it seems that only full icon themes can be uploaded
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-09-11
<troy_s> seveas ping
<Seveas> troy_s, ?
<kwwii> hehe
* kwwii goes to bed now
<kwwii> sleep well
<kwwii> erm, sleep well, everyone who is going to bed with me
<kwwii> :p
<newz2000> troy_s: ping
<troy_s> howdy newz
<Burgundavia> newz2000hey
<Burgundavia> newz2000: hey, rather
<newz2000> Howdy
<Burgundavia> did you get my email?
<newz2000> Let me look
<newz2000> Oh, Corey. :D
<newz2000> Yes, I got it.
<newz2000> I am working on the reorg. I do want help, but I'm not sure what is appropriate.
<Burgundavia> putting some plans on the wiki would be a great start
<newz2000> I need to talk to my boss and see what she thinks.
<Burgundavia> maybe an email about the general scope, what is outside of it, etc.
<newz2000> Let me think on it tonight and talk to Jane tomorrow. At the very least I'll contact you, but I know therea re some areas I will need help with.
<Burgundavia> I mean. I am an editor to the website and i don't even know if you are planning to move off moin, etc.
<newz2000> We're not moving off of moin
<Burgundavia> kind of curtails the enthusiasm, if you know what I mean
<newz2000> Keeping moin?
<Burgundavia> no, not knowing what is going to happen
<Burgundavia> moin is fin
<Burgundavia> fine, rather
<Burgundavia> nice fruedian slip
<newz2000> I see. Yes, well, I can make some announcements about the scope of the project. I think it will be a bit underwhelming.
<Burgundavia> well, one of the key things volunteers are good at is doing small, well defined tasks
<Burgundavia> hence if you spend some time specing out the project and define small tasks, you can very easily lift almost half of it off your shoulders
<newz2000> Yes, you're right.
<Burgundavia> plus people really love it when they are part of something larger
<Burgundavia> I have really found that leading the UWN
<newz2000> I will think of the best way to do this tonight. Thanks for the encouragement
<Burgundavia> and not telling long term contributors like myelf annoyed
<Burgundavia> that was the stick behind the carrot
<Burgundavia> ;)
<newz2000> I'm not making so many scary changes. Mostly just trying to bring order. I don't know if that's possible with a wiki though.
<newz2000> But I will try.
<Burgundavia> wiki as in the ubuntu wiki or wiki as in moin on the ubuntu website?
<newz2000> As you know from the doc team, when wikis get big, they can be difficult to navigate. Therefore I want to try and make it easy to get people to their destination.
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> would be nice to have a general plot of the ubuntu website
<Burgundavia> showing the directory structure
<newz2000> Yes, well, a lot of the content on the www.ubuntu.com website is outdated.
<Burgundavia> tell me about it
<Burgundavia> could you turn on html parsing on the ubuntu wiki?
<newz2000> No, I highly doubt it.
<Burgundavia> that would make it easier to develop pages like the front page on the ubuntu wiki and move them over
<newz2000> wait, do you mean wiki.ubuntu.com or www.ubuntu.com?
<Burgundavia> wiki.ubuntu.com will not take html
<Burgundavia> and the frontpage of www is html
<newz2000> You're refring to the [[HTML()] ]  macro?
<newz2000> ^referring
<Burgundavia> probably
<newz2000> I don't think it's a good idea. If people could get JS into that site they could possibly do a cross site scripting attack on launchpad.
<Burgundavia> but anon editing on the ubuntu is turned off
<Burgundavia> I have never seen anybody edit maliciously on the ubuntu wiki
<newz2000> Doesn't mean no one wants to, just that they haven't been able to.
<Burgundavia> if they wanted to, they probably would have already
<newz2000> The launchpad team is ultra-cautious on this matter, and I definately support them in it.
<Burgundavia> ok
<Burgundavia> hmm, we still need a play wiki however
<Burgundavia> because big things like a new front page should be worked out there, not live
<newz2000> That could be arranged I think.
<newz2000> Would you create a support request? https://launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-website/+addticket
<newz2000> That way I can ensure it doesn't slip off the todo list and you'll be notified by e-mail when its ready.
<Burgundavia> ok, will do
<Burgundavia> would this not be better for rt?
<BHSPitLappy> hi's
<newz2000> Burgundavia: That's fine too
<newz2000> rt@ would be better
<Burgundavia> hmm, too late
<newz2000> No prob.
<newz2000> :D It all works out.
<newz2000> G'Night all. Thanks for the suggestions Corey.
<Burgundavia> no worries, thanks for listening
<troy_s> Burgundavia
<troy_s> you in?
<Burgundavia> troy_s: I am
<troy_s> Burgundavia hold tight... i have a link for you.
<msikma> What are the colors of Kubuntu going to be again?
<Burgundavia> msikma: purple and more purple. You are going to love purple
<msikma> violet or magenta?
<Burgundavia> no idea, I use GNOME
<BHSPitLappy> hi
<msikma> Next cycle, we really should try centralizing artwork making efforts.
<BHSPitLappy> that sounds ominous
<BHSPitLappy> art is such a difficult subject... it's much easier to agree upon good code than good art
* msikma makes kubuntu usplash when he gets home
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-artwork.log
<lapo> hey bersace
<bersace> hi
<lapo> looks like your gnome scan interfaces is well accepted in the gnome community congrats
<bersace> lapo: thanks
<BHSPitLappy> link?
<lapo> bersace: let's talk about icons there
<bersace> yep
<lapo> bersace: if I bother dobey enough perhaps we could have a generic scanner icon
<lapo> bersace: I see you are using different icons for various scanner models, I think those one should be optional and if none are found it should fall back to the generic scanner
<lapo> icon
<lapo> does that sound doable?
<bersace> this is the case right now
<lapo> cool
<bersace> see http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/gnomescan/trunk/libgnomescanui/icons/
<bersace> input-scanner is generic
<bersace> input-scanner-* is specific
<lapo> bersace: if you find a wat to eneralize the icon name somehow something like
<lapo> specific scanner model (e.g. epson something) -> generic scanner type (e.g. flatbed scanner) -> generic scanner icon fallback should be cool
<andreasn> isn't this icon in the naming-spec these days? http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/*checkout*/gnomescan/trunk/libgnomescanui/icons/rotate-90.png?rev=4
<bersace> andreasn: maybe
<bersace> but i didn't find a stock_id for that
<bersace> so i create a StockItem
<bersace> so and provide the icon
<bersace> (i made the icon myself)
<bersace> andreasn: i read gimp and eog code to see how they did that
<bersace> they used their own icons too :(
<andreasn> bersace: I think they are in the spec, but for some reason we don't have it in g-i-t yet
<bersace> i'll see it later
<bersace> ok
<andreasn> I'll look into it
<bersace> would be nice to have icon *and* stock item
<bersace> in libgnome
<bersace> or libgnomeui
<bersace> or gtk
<fschoep> troy_s: ping
<kwwii_> moin fschoep
<fschoep> kwwii_: Hi
<kwwii_> fschoep: does the ubuntu usplash have a black bg or is it a fullscreen colored thing?
<fschoep> I think it's colored
<fschoep> Haven't seen it yet :)
<kwwii_> yeah, I haven't seen the kubuntu either
<fschoep> Hmm :)
<fschoep> Troublesome.
<fschoep> Knot3 is packaged tonight I think
<kwwii_> really?
<kwwii_> oh shit
<kwwii_> I wanted to get some more stuff in
<fschoep> Do so quickly, see Tollef's mail to u-dev
<fschoep> Ping him on IRC
<kwwii_> it will be packaged on wednesday
<kwwii_> whew, I was scared
<kwwii_> tody is my wedding anniversary (9 years).../me goes to buy flowers for his wife
<kwwii_> bbl
<fschoep> ..." I am aiming for a freeze of
<fschoep> main from tomorrow morning.."
<fschoep> kwwii_: congratulations!
<kwwii_> fschoep: thanks :-)
<kwwii_> fschoep: when Riddel says I have till Wednesday, then I trust him (I guess kubuntu has a slightly diffferent schedule)
<fschoep> kwwii_: Kubuntu might have indeed :)
<fschoep> kwwii_: they do have a different agenda as far as I know ;)
<kwwii_> hehe
<kwwii_> yeah, ours agenda is purple, not brown
<kwwii_> ;-)
<fschoep> ba-dum - kssh
<fschoep> kwwii_: Did you see the current Edgy artwork?
<fschoep> Like wallpaper and GDM
<kwwii_> fschoep: nope, but I looked at a link with a wallpaper in it (with blue in the right top corner)...is that it?
<fschoep> Right
<fschoep> Say - if you didn't know the backstory
<kwwii_> fschoep: do you have pics of the whole thing somewhere
<fschoep> What would you think of it?
<fschoep> Yes, hold on -
<fschoep> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/EdgyArtworkPlan/Produce/Incoming/CurrentDefault
<fschoep> It's a bit widescreenish on that link, but the design's intact
<kwwii_> while Ilike the use of the blue (before it was too mono-tonal) it is still quite brown to me :-)
<fschoep> Hehe
<kwwii_> the login splash is nice
<fschoep> Thanks on your expert opinion!
<kwwii_> ;-)
<fschoep> Do you have a page with the current Kubuntu look for Knot3?
<kwwii_> I just wish I could see the usplash stuff (both of them)
<fschoep> +1 from me
<kwwii_> kinda hard to design something this late in the game without being able even see it
<fschoep> Like shooting in the dark, literally
<kwwii_> it almost seems to me like someone wants to have the same problems as last time
<kwwii_> but anyway, enough conspiracy theory
<fschoep> :)
* kwwii_ is off shopping, bbl
<kwwii_> buying my wife flowers
<fschoep> OK have a good time
<kwwii_> see you
<fschoep> And dinner tonight eh
<kwwii_> :-)
<fschoep> see you too
<msikma> fschoep: did you get infos from Troy about my usplash work yet?
<fschoep> msikma: A bit, but if you can tell me a bit more that'd be nice.
<msikma> hi everyeone
<msikma> Hello
<PingunZ> hey msikma
<msikma> Anyone have a link to the Kubuntu logo?
<msikma> Man the Ubuntu site is awful
<msikma> When I get less stress from work I will try to suggest something to patch it up. I think it's pretty bad.
<PingunZ> msikma, its not good, not bad either
<PingunZ> the banner need a cleanup :)
<msikma> It's pretty terrible I'd say
<msikma> The main page is one big lump of clutter and ugly images and bad design practices
<msikma> And text
<msikma> Anybody around who's actively involved in Kubuntu artwork?
<frandavid100> hiya!
<frandavid100> I'd like to ask a question
<frandavid100> is there a chance to pack a given program to use tango icons even if that's not the default?
<frandavid100> I'm thinking gaim, or gimp
<msikma> I would like to make a Kubuntu usplash using the new technology that we now have, consistent with the Ubuntu usplash experiments that I've done earlier, but I have no idea about its style/art guidelines
<msikma> http://thingmajig.org/tmp/usplash_plus/final/kubuntu_rlsl_0.gif
<kwwii_> Seveas: ping?
<kwwii_> msikma: hehe, that is purple!
<kwwii_> msikma: I guess I could help you with the guidelines
<msikma> Perhaps! You're very active in Kubuntu, right?
<kwwii_> yeah, you could say that :-)
<kwwii_> I am the AIC for kubuntu
<kwwii_> and happened to do all the artwork too
<msikma> awesome
<msikma> so how is that experiment in terms of new Kubuntu art guidelines?
<msikma> I didn't want to stick to just one hue so I messed around with it a bit and let it use red as well.
<msikma> e.g. Violet --> Magenta
<kwwii_> until now it looks like we will be using a light blue (almost cyan) to purple colored bg
<kwwii_> and colorscheme, etc.
<sladen> msikma: pretty!
<msikma> kwwii_: that means I'm right about the hue thing, but it's just that I'm on the wrong side of purple :)
<msikma> sladen: thanks
<kwwii_> msikma: http://bootsplash.org/newtest5a.png shows you the colors we are using
<kwwii_> msikma: exactly
<msikma> 403
<kwwii_> oops, rights, sorry
<kwwii_> fixed
<msikma> very nice
<kwwii_> that will be included in knot3
<msikma> hmm
<msikma> http://thingmajig.org/tmp/usplash_plus/final/kubuntu_rlsl_1.gif
<msikma> I will need to look into it further
* msikma afk for now
<kwwii_> that is pretty close though, you just need to reduce the saturation a bit and increase the lightness
<Seveas> kwwii_, pong
<kwwii_> Seveas: how big can an animation be? (file size, I assume is the important part)
<Seveas> kwwii_, technically unlimited, but please keep in mind that CDs have VERY limited space
<kwwii_> Seveas: so read time and such are not important?
<Seveas> if you hit read time bottlenecks with animation you must be doing full screen plasma flows
<kwwii_> hehe
<kwwii_> I have something pretty small in mind, but I need more than 15 frames to do it right
<Seveas> you can use as much frames as you want
<Seveas> but should use as little as possible
<kwwii_> ok, here is my second question: is it possible to read a series of pics and display them as an animation and then once that is through go through them in reverse order?
<kwwii_> that would reduce the number of frames needed by half
<Seveas> sure
<Seveas> that's basically what the pulsating throbber is doing
<kwwii_> ok cool...I am going to make a few animations as gif, I'll post them and ping you tomorrow when I am done
<kwwii_> basically, I am thinking of doing some volumetric lighting
<Seveas> do you know imagemagick a bit?
<kwwii_> yepp, pretty well
<Seveas> nice, then I'll ail you a list of questions later -- I want to use imagemagick more for automating the artwork building process
<kwwii_> cool, I have a lot of experience using imagemagick in scripts
<Seveas> rock
<kwwii_> I had a set of scripts using imagemagick and batik which rendered the entire artwork for a full suse distro from a few SVGs :-)
<kwwii_> I could never have kept up with the work otherwise
<msikma> kwwii_: how's this? http://thingmajig.org/tmp/usplash_plus/final/kubuntu_rlsl_2.gif
<msikma> (background should be a bit darker though, probably.)
<kwwii_> yeah, probably, darker would be better
<kwwii_> and slower
<msikma> http://thingmajig.org/tmp/usplash_plus/final/kubuntu_rlsl_3.gif slightly darker bg
<msikma> I'm not really concerned about the speed, since that can always be programatically changed.
<kwwii_> well, as long as you have enough frames
<kwwii_> it feels to me like it has too much saturation
<msikma> Yeah, but I'd like to wait for seeing it used in a real, working state before changing the resolution.
<msikma> perhaps. these are dark tones, though, and less saturated dark tones look extremely boring while the problem isn't as big with light tones.
<kwwii_> exactly
<kwwii_> the darker tones can be saturated, but the lighter tones not so
<msikma> let's see if I can try fixing that
<msikma> http://thingmajig.org/tmp/usplash_plus/final/kubuntu_rlsl_5.gif
<kwwii_> somehow the lighter violet tones bother me
<kwwii_> I like the darker colors
<kwwii_> and the very light color
<kwwii_> you might try with a colored logo and only shine white light onto it
<msikma> hmm, I kind of like the light violet. It's a very peaceful color to me.
<msikma> I tried nabbing some colors from that background, but I guess I'll try again
<kwwii_> hehe
<kwwii_> the colors in that background are funky
<kwwii_> it is very colorful, even though you do not get that impression when you look at it
<msikma> arrrggh stupid 8 bit per channel color depth
<msikma> I want to edit stuff in real time with 32 bit per channel but that disallows me from using a bunch of tools/filters in Photoshop
<msikma> so after a bunch of color filters I'm forced to flatten my background and add a gaussian blur to it to take care of the posterize-like effect
<msikma> how's this? http://thingmajig.org/tmp/usplash_plus/final/kubuntu_rlsl_6.gif
<BHSPitLappy> purdy
<BHSPitLappy> a purer shade of blue?
<BHSPitLappy> instead of violet?
<kwwii_> msikma: that is *much* closer
<kwwii_> I guess the idea would be to put that pic on top of the wallpaper used and see how well it matches
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-09-12
<Viper550> Guess what, you've got some upstaging to do artwork wise now...
<Viper550> http://people.redhat.com/dfong/fc6graphics/
<kwwii_> dude, I do not mean to be rude, but what is the point?
<Viper550> FC6's artwork is just plain beautiful
<kwwii_> I mean, I am a kubunu person, so I really don't care either way
<kwwii_> but  what is the point of coming here to say that?
<Viper550> (well, Fedora uses most of the same artwork cross-desktop anyway) My point, here's some inspiration so we can do even better for Edgy
<kwwii_> you say it is your prefered distro, so use it
* kwwii_ doesn't get it
<Viper550> I know, I do use it, but I used to use Ubuntu and when I joined the team I used Ubuntu
<Viper550> I was showing you what Fedora was up to, we did bring up the Echo icons on the list before, so it's not like we haven't mentioned Fedora before
<Viper550> But then, we all also kinda disliked the bubbles look too.
<Seveas> troy_s, I almost have the needed parts of usplash_gtk working to get a working preview application
<Seveas> so we have a graphical way of switching btween usplashes
<BHSPitLappy> sweeetness
<mhb> good morning
<BHSPitLappy> mornin
<BHSPitLappy> good 3am
<mhb> 1Oam here
<mhb> :o)
<Schalken> :-X
<Kamion> kwwii: in case you didn't notice, usplash 0.4-23 (uploaded yesterday) fixes most problems on powerpc; usplash 0.4-24 (which I'm about to upload) fixes broken progress bar display on powerpc
<kwwii> Kamion: for some reason usplash fails on my machine because it says it cannot find the screen size
<Kamion> kwwii: yes, that's what should be fixed in -23
<kwwii> hehe, cool!
<Kamion> if you're using -23, we can talk further :)
<kwwii> well, I am using it (I just tested it about three hours ago)
<Kamion> oh, and it still says it can't find the screen size?
<kwwii> yepp, it did it at 1024x768 on dapper
<kwwii> the dekstop, I mean, although it can do more
<kwwii> so I think it is just a funky computer (it is an eMac)
<Kamion> that shouldn't be a problem
<Kamion> what's the exact error message?
<kwwii> cannot find screen size (or there abouts)
<Kamion> I need the exact message so I can grep for it, if you can
<kwwii> well, I will reboot and tell you, one second :-)
<Kamion> thanks
<kwwii> hey, thanks go to you :-)
<kwwii> brb
<kwwii_> bogl_init failed: setting Screen Size: invalid Argument
<kwwii_> Screen init failed
<kwwii_> Kamion: that is what I get
<Kamion> OK
<Kamion> kwwii_: what's in /etc/usplash.conf?
<kwwii_> xres=640
<kwwii_> yres=480
<Kamion> kwwii_: could you put the output of 'lspci' somewhere so that I know which kernel framebuffer driver I should be looking at?
<kwwii_> yepp, one second
<kwwii_> Kamion: http://paste.uni.cc/10026
<PingunZ> What is fecal matter ?
<PingunZ> its a title of a mail but I don't understand it ?
<PingunZ> An ubuntu-art mail btw :)
<Kamion> kwwii_: OK, it's a Radeon, and there aren't that many places where radeon's fb_check_var can fail
<Kamion> I suspect I'm just failing to initialise something or other
<kwwii_> well, whenever you need any info or testing, just ask. I'd be happy to help if it gets this thing running :-)
<Kamion> kwwii_: will do ...
<kwwii_> [17:33]  <Tonio_> kwwii_: sudo usplash works here, but fails at boot. Probably due to the resolution detection I assume
<kwwii_> I am not alone
<Kamion> it is not necessarily the same problem
<Kamion> kwwii_: so does 'sudo usplash -c -x 640 -y 480' work for you from a virtual console? (if it does work, wait 15 seconds or so for it to go away)
<kwwii_> Kamion: nope, it just says "Screen Init Failed"
<Kamion> kwwii_: also, if you could put /var/log/Xorg.0.log somewhere, that would be useful
<Kamion> ok, so your problem is not the same as Tonio's
<Kamion> sorry BTW, if you'd rather this be somewhere other than #ubuntu-artwork, no problem, we can take it to #ubuntu-devel or /query
<kwwii_> sorry, I was making schnitzel's for dinner
<PingunZ> kwwii_, german ?
<kwwii_> PingunZ: no, but i play one on tv
<kwwii_> Kamion: http://bootsplash.org/Xorg.0.log
<Kamion> kwwii_: you'll need to fix usplash.conf, since you have no 640x480 theme in kubuntu-artwork-usplash
<Kamion> xres=1024 and yres=768 should do, and you might find that that will work ...
<Kamion> try 'sudo usplash -c -x 1024 -y 768' from a console to test
<kwwii_> Kamion: rocking! it works
<Nafallo> just a tip: the preview text on the wallpaper is behind the lower panel :-P
<Kamion> kwwii_: woo. still need to fix the underlying bug but at least that's you sorted
<kwwii_> hehe :-) thanks, I appreciate it
<Kamion> I'm going to tweak usplash to exit a bit more clearly if there's no theme matching the specified resolution
<kwwii_> it is really helpfull to be able to test it
<Kamion> yeah, that's why it got paid developer time :)
<kwwii_> :-)
<kwwii_> time for dinner
<kwwii_> bbl
<PingunZ> Err, I found out how to run gimp in one window ( might interest you ) ..
<PingunZ> Xnest :1 -ac -name GIMP -geometry 1024x690 & metacity --display :1 & gimp --display :1
<PingunZ> Oh noez, Seveas :)
<Seveas> PingunZ, stfu :
<PingunZ> rofl
<Viper550> kwwii: Just as a re-bringup, what was your opinion about the glossy panel bg I made?
<kwwii> Viper550: I like it
<kwwii> Viper550: the problem is that the widgets look different
<Viper550> Widgets? what widgets?
<kwwii> Viper550: if we used a different widget style it would fit
<Viper550> The widgets in the style? Yeah...we should try something more glossy
<Viper550> There are 2 great gloss themes: QtCurve and Polyester
<kwwii> ti would probably fit to QtCurve
<Viper550> Firstly, QtCurve has tons of options, and we can easily set up a preset for our look. QtCurve can also apply its current settings to GTK apps as well as KDE apps
<kwwii> so we could get ubuntu to change too?
<kwwii> I seriously doubt it
<Viper550> No, this means that on Kubuntu, Firefox and other GTK apps would look exactly like KDE
<Viper550> This has been a complaint by some users that prefer Firefox over Konqueror, they boot it up and see that it has an ugly appearance
<Viper550> We would still only ship it with Kubuntu, but with this, KDE and GTK applications can finally have consistancy!
<kwwii> that is actually a very good point
<Viper550> It also looks nice too!
<kwwii> you mean that it works well with the Qt gtk engine and also has a firefox theme, I guess
<Viper550> No, how it works is that there are 2 parts: the KDE style and the GTK engine
<Viper550> The QtCurve GTK theme reads the color and style information from the QtCurve configuration on KDE
<Viper550> So, they are still 2 different things, but they work together to apply a consistent look. It even applies the proper KDE icons where needed!
<Viper550> I'm going to bring this up globally in kubuntu-devel as well too, so help us out!
<kwwii> please do
<kwwii> not sure if the infrastructure is there to support that
<bersace> troy_s: hi brother !
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-09-13
<Viper550> To kwwii about the panel background: We have a glossy logo, but a non glossy theme, isn't that still allowed?
<kwwii> Viper550: the glossy logo is not shown on the desktop, and the theme is glossy, just look at the icons
<Viper550> I meant the widgets...but are the icons still Crystal SVG?
<kwwii> yepp
<Viper550> Oh, I kinda thought it was going to be Crystal Diamond
<Viper550> http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=45576
<kwwii> nope
<Viper550> Oh...but still..if they can be optimized size wise, they might make a good idea for Edgy+1
<kwwii> edgy+1 will be kde4, which will use oxygen
<Viper550> Really? Will KDE 4 even be out by then?
<kwwii> well, it will not be out until right at the release of edgy+1
<kwwii> but the packages will be really good by then
<kwwii> almost finished
<Viper550> Ahh...okay?
<kwwii> so there is no point in changing things on that level when it is the last of it's kind
<Viper550> oh...
<Viper550> Wait, will KDE3 icon schemes be compatible with KDE 4?
<kwwii> nope
<kwwii> well, maybe
<kwwii> we might make a system to use them
<kwwii> but we will change the naming soon
<Viper550> Man, the migration to KDE 4 is going to be quite interesting
<kwwii> yepp
<Viper550> Hmm, wonder what the default theme will be like...
<Viper550> Speaking of default themes, I remember you saying that there was going to be a custom Kubuntu style made?
<kwwii> nope, never said that
<kwwii> ;-)
<kwwii> we have window buttons
<kwwii> but no style
<Viper550> oh...I must have overheard
<kwwii> we are making an oxygen style
<Viper550> for KDE4?
<kwwii> eventually perhaps
<Viper550> are there any pictures yet?
<kwwii> nope
<kwwii> we have code, but until we are closer to getting what we want we will not release a screenshot
<Viper550> I hope it's glossy
<Viper550> One more thing, you said the gradient and color scheme was updated for Knot 3?
<kwwii> yepp
<kwwii> http://bootsplash.org/snapshot2.png
<kwwii> hehe, no window in that screen
<Viper550> Yay, no more bronzed wallpaper!
<kwwii> try this....same as before, only snapshot3.png
<kwwii> http://bootsplash.org/snapshot3.png
<Viper550> Erm, is it me, or is the new gradient a cross between what we had earlier and simple lighting?
<kwwii> no idea, I just made it so it looked decent to me
<Viper550> Actually looks a bit...weird
<kwwii> hehe
<Viper550> If you want, here's the overlay I use: http://bay01.imagebay.com/bay.php?view=7435_gradientoverlay.png
<kwwii> nice, but I like something a bit different
<Viper550> I might wanna try making something a bit more like what you have there...
<Viper550> What I'm making now is a bit simliar to the appearance of Lipstik's widgets
<kwwii> cool
<kwwii> time for bed
<kwwii> see you
<Viper550> cya
* BHSPitLappy yawn
<lapo> hi
<bersace> troy_s: hi brother !
* bersace dream troy_s will respond one time ... 
<bersace> :P
<kwwii_> hehe
<PingunZ> ping Seveas
<Seveas> Ping unZ
<PingunZ> :)
<PingunZ> I'm on edgy again, How can I finally get the usplash-theme working ?
<Seveas> apt-get install usplash usplash-theme-ubuntu
<PingunZ> Seveas, That's it ?
<PingunZ> No vga="x" in menu.lst ?
<Seveas> no
<Seveas> vga= things may actually break it
<PingunZ> Ok, I'm going to reboot then ;)
<PingunZ> Ah, I'll see if I haven't got it enabled then
<PingunZ> Ok, brb
<PingunZ> Seveas, If you're not kidding, and you don't mean the ugly tv-testscreen-like usplash, then its not working :)
<Seveas> PingunZ, dpkg -l '*usplash*' | grep usplash
<PingunZ> ii  usplash              0.4-24         Userspace bootsplash utility
<PingunZ> ii  usplash-theme-ubuntu 0.1-1          Usplash theme for Ubuntu
<Seveas> ls -l /etc/alternatives/usplash-artwork.so
<PingunZ> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 35 2006-09-10 22:26 /etc/alternatives/usplash-artwork.so -> /usr/lib/usplash/usplash-default.so
<Seveas> hmm
<Seveas> update-alternatives --list usplash-artwork.spo
<Seveas> update-alternatives --list usplash-artwork.so
<PingunZ> /usr/lib/usplash/usplash-theme-ubuntu.so
<Seveas> odd -- a symlink isn't getting corrected there
<Seveas> are you on x86?
<PingunZ> yup
<PingunZ> uname[Linux Edgy 2.6.17-7-386 #2 Wed Sep 6 17:53:03 UTC 2006 i686 GNU/Linux] 
<Seveas> wget http://ubuntu-nl.org/~dennis/usplash-switcher
<Seveas> chmod +x usplash_switcher
<Seveas> chmod +x usplash-switcher
<Seveas> sudo ./usplash-switcher
<Seveas> select the theme and click 'switch'
<PingunZ> Wow, great app
<PingunZ> I taught you weren't releasing it ?
<Seveas> I'm not
<PingunZ> Done !
<Seveas> I'm just providing the binary and source
<Seveas> if you wanna call that releasing... ;)
<Seveas> PingunZ, then it should work now
<PingunZ> ^^
<PingunZ> Ok, reboot :)
<PingunZ> Seveas, its working !
<Seveas> as i expected
<Seveas> now to figure out what the symlink is doing
<PingunZ> Thanks man, nice work !!
<PingunZ> Ok, now, I have like a dark-brown border around the lighter-brown .. is that normal ?
<Seveas> cat /etc/usplash.conf
<PingunZ> xres=1280
<PingunZ> yres=1024
<Seveas> yeahm than it's noral
<Seveas> normal*
<PingunZ> Ok :)
<PingunZ> Ok, now I want to make my own theme :D I just want to use a background image ( instead of the light and dark-brown.
<PingunZ> And make the throbber blue
<PingunZ> is that possible ?
<PingunZ>  // much work ,
<PingunZ> *?
<Seveas> possible and not too much work
<Seveas> look at thes source for the existing themes
<PingunZ> Ok :)
<PingunZ> First I'm finishing my grub splash, then I'll make my gsplash and then I'll try to make a Usplash
<PingunZ> *linux is full of splashes
<Viper550> kwwii, if you were to use my overlay, you would have to tweak the buttons a but
<Viper550> *bit
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-09-14
<Viper550> kwwii? you there?
<kwwii_> Viper550: yes, but I am sick and going to bed very soon
* kwwii_ has the flu
<kwwii_> :-(
<Viper550> uh oh...this is not good
<Viper550> Well, if you want, here's that new overlay I made... http://bay01.imagebay.com/bay.php?view=7447_inversegradientoverlay.png
<kwwii_> I will download it now and test it out tomorrow, ok?
<Viper550> ookay, hope you're better soon!
<kwwii_> yeah, me too
<troy_s> Greets klepas
<klepas> hey there troy_s
<PingunZ> Seveas: I'm install usplash-dev I'm going to try making a theme :)
<PingunZ> Where do I start ? Can I just modify some images ?
<Seveas> PingunZ, I don't have time to guide you through it, read the documentation....
<PingunZ> Okey :)
<PingunZ> I understand ;)
<Seveas> kwwii, ping
<kwwii> Seveas: pong
<Seveas> kwwii, can imagemagick extract a palette from an image and apply it to another?
<kwwii> Seveas: I think so...try the -map and +map function of convert
<kwwii> so you want the -map function
<Seveas> I want +map
<kwwii> hehe
<Seveas> that's even better
<kwwii> that averges the colormaps
<kwwii> then it will look a bit betterif things are not perfect
<Seveas> I want usplash-theme-creation to be easier
<Seveas> what I did for ubuntu was tedious gimping
<kwwii> hehe
<kwwii> did you have to play with the kubuntu pics? I hope not, I tried to make them correctly
<kwwii> but it is really easy to screw up
<kwwii> :-)
<Seveas> the kubuntu pics were perfect
<kwwii> whew!
<kwwii> btw. I made an ogg to kinda show what I thought about doing for an animation...
<kwwii> http://bootsplash.org/kubundu1309-fjpg75.ogg  <-- it is really big and long now, but you get the idea
<Seveas> that's technically possible
<Seveas> but the theme .so file will be INSANELY LARGE
<Seveas> I probably need to bring back run-length encoding
<kwwii> it would be a matter of making it look good with as few frames as possible and then only including the pics going one way and do the return by playing them backwards
<kwwii> it would be neat to be able to use an mng file :-)
<kwwii> we wrote fbmngplay for the bootsplash just for that purpose
<Seveas> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EasierUsplashThemingSpec
<kwwii> Seveas: wow, sounds nice (and the app looks nice)...one thing though, it would be good to preserve the ability to not use the +map option if one has made the image's colormaps by hand
<Seveas> sure
<kwwii> one thing about the scaling...it is not always best to simply scale pics to other aspect ratios...rounded boxes or circles end up looking funny when simply scaled. I use a script to render SVGs (where the scaling doesn't happen with such primitives) - ever thought of addind a "render from svg" function?
<Seveas> kwwii, add it as comment
<kwwii> Seveas: will do :-)
<exs> Is there a good RSS program, where I am able to look for keywords... so it will notify me when for example it finds "kopete" ?
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-09-15
<kwwii> exs: no idea, what does this have to do with artwork?
<kwwii> exs: why not ask on #kubuntu-devel?
<exs> im sorry, i posted in the wrong channel
<kwwii> akkregator is my first response
<kwwii> hehe
<kwwii> no problem
<exs> akkregator doesn't use keywords :(
<troy_s> Seveas:  Ping.
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-artwork.log
<Burgundavia> anybody alive?
<Who_> wow, it's got busy in here recently
<Who_> hia ll
<troy_s> Who_sie welcome back
<troy_s> Who_ just getting ready for work here
<Who_> tory_s: muhahahahaha - yesterday was my last day :)
<troy_s> Woop.
<Who_> troy_s: however I have a horrible feeling uni may be hardwer work than my old job :P
<troy_s> Laf.
<troy_s> Yeah in some ways it is.
<troy_s> Congrats on the University thing though.
<troy_s> Finish it.
<Who_> ?
<Who_> oh - sorry, I get you :)
<troy_s> You just starting?
<troy_s> Or do you have a couple of years under your belt?
<Who_> nope, just starting...
<Who_> General Engineering course at Cambridge
<Who_> (UK)
<troy_s> Wow... amazing
<troy_s> A good friend of mine just finished his masters in engineering
<troy_s> Very bright fellow.
<Who_> did he enjoy it? I'm alittle worried I might find it a bit 'dry'
<troy_s> He loved it.
<troy_s> Masters thesis was a bit difficult though.
<troy_s> I have been toying with a masters too...
<Who_> troy_s: I'm working on an 'evolution' of your GDM...not in Xara, in Inkscape...is there much point or is that stuff pretty set now?
<troy_s> But it just seems like a long time for the next bump.
<troy_s> Great.
<Who_> troy_s: in what?
<troy_s> MFA
<Who_> I can put up a little preview quickly if you like
<Who_> MFA =?
<troy_s> Absolutely, love to see it.
<troy_s> Masters of Fine Arts.
<troy_s> But it involves a good year of thesis work.
<troy_s> So I don't know how motivated I can be towards that right now :)
<Who_> My sister is just working out what to do after her fine art (sculpture) degree
<Who_> she is considering a masters in fine art with English literature ...weird!
<Who_> I am pretty envious of people who do art degrees - I realised too late that I had a side of me that liked art/sculpture
<Who_> maybe architecture is a possibility after an engineering degree...
<troy_s> Indeed... That combination would make you pretty valuable.  ;)
<Who_> and pretty old by the time I started working :P
<troy_s> Architecture involves a tremendous amount of history to really excel at it.
<troy_s> Blah... its 2006.
<Who_> lol
<Who_> what do you do at the moment then?
<troy_s> Did you get that?
<troy_s> Get your work up.
<Who_> troy_s: yea - and I replied...
<Who_> just uploading now
<troy_s> By the by, re the progression -- Frank is busy working on several things right now.  Ultimately, however, if the desired goal is to Frankenstein everything
<Who_> Frankenstein? make Frank's way?
<troy_s> then I would prefer it frankenstein back to the original dapper artwork.
<troy_s> No
<troy_s> Frankenstein -- as in hodge podge bits and pieces together all over again.
<troy_s> No synth
<Who_> that would be a real shame after all the work!
<troy_s> Just a clip art approach to work.
<Who_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JonathanAustin/EdgyGDMEvolution
<troy_s> Well that has always remained possible.
<Who_> work in prgress, most certainly
<troy_s> And I tried to make that clear from the beginning.
<Who_> yea - and sabdfl's comments on GDM (we will keep it the way it is...etc) seem to make that look more likely
<Who_> maybe someone dugg the wiki again, it's very slow
<Who_> or maybe it's my connection, who knows
<troy_s> Damn slow
<troy_s> Must continue to get ready...
<troy_s> laf.
<troy_s> erm
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> laf means coward in dutch apparently, so i am trying to avoid using it in the channel.
<Who_> lol
<Who_> I made the changes I did to mkae the logo stand out and give the clear branding that Mark wants
<Who_> Do you know if the dark browns are _very_ decided, or are they just there because that is what the best work at the end of produce looked like?
<troy_s> quickly join #temp
<troy_s> because I must fly out in about three seconds.
<troy_s> ok must go.
<troy_s> be good.
<Who_> troy_s: done
<Who_> Remenic: are you there?
<newz2000> Hey guys, got edgy running in vmware last night and found a bug... trying to figure out where to file it (or to see if its been reported)
<newz2000> Is this the usplash: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mnuzum/tmp/Screenshot-Edgy-Splash.png
<newz2000> (the graphic with the progress bar that loads before gdm)
<newz2000> Seveas: ping
<Seveas> newz2000, is the bug that usplash is looking misplaced?
<newz2000> Yes
<Seveas> newz2000, the bug displayed on that screenshot is known
<newz2000> ok, so no need to file it then?
<Seveas> edit /etc/usplash.conf and do update-initramfs -u
<newz2000> ok, as long as its known. This close to release I'd hate to sit on a bug. :-D
<Seveas> it's a combination of an installer bug and a usplash bug
<Seveas> the latter is already fixed
<Seveas> the former is being fixed
<Who_> troy_s: you around?
<Who_> anyone want to give some opinions on
<Who_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/EdgyArtworkPlan/Produce/Incoming/WhoDefaultGDMAttempts
<PingunZ> hello Who_
<Who_> Hi PinugunZ
<Who_> how're things going?
<PingunZ> Fine mate ;)
<PingunZ> I like gdm_008
<PingunZ> really looks great ;)
<PingunZ> It should just be a little brighter
<effraie> hello
<PingunZ> The gdm_008 with gdm_001's backgreound colors.
<PingunZ> hey effraie
<effraie> i just received Who_'s mail, but wiki is not available here...
<effraie> hey PingunZ
<Who_> PingunZ: unfortunately I think Edgy's gonna be darker....
<Who_> hey eggraie: Wiki's been slow for me recently
<PingunZ> Who_: Why is that, all OS's are getting brighter ..
<effraie> i'd like a sand color for the next release
<Who_> that page has a fair amount on it
* PingunZ points at OSX, Windblows, SuSE, ..
<Who_> PingunZ: post your opinion to the list :) I agree fully that the orangey caramels look better
<PingunZ> Or blue :)
<Who_> effraie - have a look at these: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/EdgyArtworkPlan/Produce/Incoming/WhoLsplash
<Who_> that kind of colour
<Who_> ?
<PingunZ> Who_: I'll mail my opinion to your gdm's.
<Who_> thanks :)
<PingunZ> I'd like to make them btw ;)
<effraie> Who_: the wiki is not available..
<Who_> effraie: sorry, mighty stupid of me!
<effraie> but i think i see the colour you mean
<effraie> so that kind of color, yes, but less glossy
<Who_> effraie: yea, I tthink Nuak style with those colours would be great!
<Who_> okay, I'll be back in a few moments :)
<effraie> see you
<PingunZ> Hey Who_
<Who_> hiya
<PingunZ> I replied to your mail
<Who_> Got it thanks
<Who_> I'll work on the combination and see what it looks like
<PingunZ> Thanks ;)
<PingunZ> Do you like the idea of basing all splashes on it ?
<Who_> Yea, like SUSE do...
<PingunZ> Yup
<PingunZ> Honestly, what is the best-looking distro out there ?
<Who_> Suse for sure
<PingunZ> Suse, Why ? because its polished !
<effraie> +1
<Who_> because it is complete, silky and cohernet
<Who_> sorry, coherent
<PingunZ> Splashes, grub,splash, usplash, .. all based on the same background
<PingunZ> BUT not always the same
<PingunZ> They make the same image different every time, that's what makes suse so nice
<PingunZ> My current edgy looks like suse
<Who_> PingunZ - I think they made one big image and chopped it up into buts for things
<Who_> so it looks really coherent but not too boring
<effraie> something  i dislike with suse is glossy everywhere
<PingunZ> True, and if ubuntu could do that, it would be THE distro
<PingunZ> atm, ubuntu rocks, but it isn't really good looking
<PingunZ> its all several pieces of art .. not nicely polished coherent looking
<PingunZ> Atm dapper -> Old brown gdm and then a glossy gsplash ..
<Who_> the thing that is buggin me atm is the 'standard' background colour - I want to chnage it for Blubuntu
<Who_> but I don't know how to do it automatically
<PingunZ> Who_: What background color ?
<PingunZ> of the gsplash ?
<Who_> nope, the colour you see between logging in and Gnome colouring the desktop with my image
<Who_> and the colour you see before the GDM loads
<Who_> I think it should either be black or be easily changeable by a theme
<PingunZ> Ah, that's what I meant .. the color that is not set by the splash itself
<PingunZ> Settings -> administ. -> login window
<PingunZ> Background color :
<PingunZ> And it will be in one of the /usr/share/gdm files
<KurtKraut> what is the best way to comment the current Edgy artwork ?
<PingunZ> Wiki or mailing list
<KurtKraut> PingunZ, which wiki precisely ?
<PingunZ> wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork
<KurtKraut> thanks
<PingunZ> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/EdgyArtworkPlan/Produce/Incoming/
<KurtKraut> let me ask u something...
<KurtKraut> I've notice that currently, the troy_s design is set in Edgy
<PingunZ> Yup
<KurtKraut> how this decision is made ?
<PingunZ> By the Team staff
<PingunZ> AiC, Frank Schoep
<KurtKraut> hm... I see.
<KurtKraut> Because I've shown it to many people and I didn't find yet someone who liked it
<KurtKraut> So I'm bit worried if it design get to the final version
<KurtKraut> PingunZ, I didn't find yet in the artwork wikis a place to comment this.
<PingunZ> KurtKraut: Well, its not final at all
<PingunZ> and you can just post comments in the wiki
<KurtKraut> thanks
<PingunZ> But please, if you comment it, be specific.
<PingunZ> We don't learn anything with ' Ubuntu art is crap '
<PingunZ> Tell us what could be better / what you don't like , ..
<KurtKraut> PingunZ, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/EdgyArtworkPlan/Produce/Incoming#head-939d2e040976632a19a237e2a2b2893c7db1f0f1
<KurtKraut> PingunZ, check if it is helpul. I can add more data if you think it would be more useful
<PingunZ> No, KurtKraut its fine ..
<PingunZ> there are a few minor typo's :)
<PingunZ> I'll be restarting x-chat now brb
<PingunZ> Back ;)
<KurtKraut> PingunZ, my english is very rusted
<KurtKraut> I moved my comment from the main page to the troy_s submission page
<PingunZ> KurtKraut: mine too ;)
<PingunZ> I learned a lot b joining this team ;)
<PingunZ> Link ?
<KurtKraut> but I'm worried if this will make my comment less visible to the Team
<PingunZ> Hmm
<PingunZ> I'll try to tell a few people ;)
<KurtKraut> but in general... my point of view is: something lighter than troy_s submission
<KurtKraut> and Glossy effect may give a 'modern' look'n'feel
<KurtKraut> I do realize that Vista is getting darker with the use of black background. But they are doing it to emphasise the light (ilumination) effects
<PingunZ> KurtKraut: I edited your typo's
<KurtKraut> PingunZ, thanks :D
<PingunZ> eek, I removed your name apparently .. fixing it :)
<PingunZ> Fixed :)
<KurtKraut> thnx
<KurtKraut> My comment was a report of what people said to me about this artwork
<KurtKraut> But personally, I think that would be good if we explode more the 'animals' of the name of our versions
<KurtKraut> like the Eft
<PingunZ> Put it in the wiki too, I like the idea
<PingunZ> but I think we haven't got enough time for that
<PingunZ> maybe edgy+1
<KurtKraut> yeap
<PingunZ> 'night all
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-09-16
<Viper550> I saw that Kubuntu Edgy Knot 3 is looking good
<Who_> troy_s: you there?
<troy_s> barely
<troy_s> i am stretching the limits of my imagination to attempt and integrate what sabdfl likes
<troy_s> into some form of a whole
<troy_s> thus far it feels impossible :)
<Who_> what does sabdfl like?
<Who_> did yopu see tyhe GDMs I did today?
<troy_s> yep
<Who_> he seemed to like the logo and glosss style a whgile back - I don't know if his mind has changed
<troy_s> he would hate them as a good guess
<Who_> ...reasons?
<troy_s> well the main problem _even_ if we were to say try something as simple as
<troy_s> using the existing gdm
<troy_s> flipping the curve on the lsplash (existing)
<troy_s> and using the existing wallpaper from dapper (and fixing the god awful curve anomolies)
<troy_s> is to find a palette in there
<Who_> (we have the source from the lsplash?)
<troy_s> and after having looked at about 1000000000 palettes over the past
<Who_> there isn't one, all three use different colours
<troy_s> few months
<troy_s> yep
<troy_s> there isn't even one that comes close
<troy_s> there are many terrific palettes out there
<troy_s> but for example
<Who_> the palette I _like_ is the current GDM one
<troy_s> the closest one i have found is
<troy_s> one out of j. krause's palette index
<troy_s> colour library
<troy_s> but it has a few shortcomings when compared to the existing work
<Who_> grr...can you give me some idea of what about the recent GDMs sabdfl would hate - if he's gonna have final say then there is no point in me doing stuff he won't like...
<troy_s> further, i am pretty sure i can make something virtually identical to sabdfl's liking (aka leave gdm, twist lsplash (invert a curve so it matches folders at _least_)
<troy_s> basically,
<troy_s> he created the gdm
<troy_s> so it will stay
<troy_s> the _most_ we could hope for is to get a bloody palette in place in edgy
<troy_s> if i had to bet
<troy_s> but even then
<troy_s> even _with_ a professional palette
<troy_s> there is barely any way to build _anything_ into the mix that would be satisfactory to sabdfl.
<Who_> my designs are so similar to his though, just with the style he chose ofr the Human icons applied...
<troy_s> which ... makes it tricky to do anything.
<Who_> troy_s: does he know what he is actually looking for?
<Who_> or is he waiting to be 'hit'?
<troy_s> i have no idea, but it isn't important.
<troy_s> i think the problem is that everyone re
<troy_s> _really_ underestimated our ponder phase
<Who_> does he agree?
<troy_s> ultimately, sabdfl appears to 'like' small tidbits
<troy_s> but then frankensteining them together just doesn't work
<troy_s> so it would involve some level of synthisis
<Who_> but he likes 'polish'
<troy_s> well polish
<troy_s> is a general cohesiveness by tweaking elements
<troy_s> given the sources to the three elements
<troy_s> i can tell you that there is _zero_ way that i could achieve that with existing work.
<Who_> I have been considering developing all aspects of the designs I have been doing, an lsplash similar, etc - but I think you are suggesting there is no point, right?
<Who_> troy_s: I know! they are just totally incompatible, and it looks crap
<troy_s> well
<troy_s> crap is a strong term
<troy_s> what we really need
<troy_s> is to STRICTLY adhere to the system
<Who_> okay, it looks far inferior to the cohesiveness of SUSE and Fedora....
<troy_s> and get STEP by step evaluation
<troy_s> yes
<troy_s> but that is fundamental design principles
<troy_s> very _simple_ principles
<Who_> many, many reviews praised suse for being one of the first distros to 'lack duct tape'
<troy_s> Pingunz -- who is 14 years old
<Chipzz> hi
<troy_s> hit the nail on the head with his estimation.
<troy_s> hi chipzz
<troy_s> with me who_?
<Who_> troy_s: what estimation?
<troy_s> and even then, as with aesop's work,
<troy_s> there is _zero_ percent chance to come up with something that is acceptable to everyone
<troy_s> so those constants we just need to accept
<troy_s> brainstorming might help...
<troy_s> but now, we are left with the teetering edge of bloody time
<Who_> troy_s: apparently not on the PinunZ front...and you may have to point me to aesop's work, or tell me what it looked like...
<troy_s> with very little helpful discussion along the path to build upon.
<troy_s> um...
<troy_s> aesop wrote a few fables... let me see if i can find the one
<Who_> yea - I think what we need is more of the approval/guidance from sabdfl along the way, like you got from him part way through
<Who_> ohhhh - I though you were talking about a member of the teram!!
<Who_> hare and tortoise - I am familiar
<Chipzz> where did /usr/share/pixmaps/grub/ubuntu-artwork.xpm.gz go?
<troy_s> http://home1.gte.net/deleyd/prose/aesop63.htm
<troy_s> uh in dapper chipzz
<troy_s> ?
<Chipzz> http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_contents.pl?word=%2Fusr%2Fshare%2Fpixmaps%2Fgrub%2Fubuntu-artwork.xpm.gz&searchmode=searchfiles&case=insensitive&version=edgy&arch=i386 says it's in ubuntu-artwork
<troy_s> who_ even with sabdfl's guidance
<Chipzz> troy_s: no, edgy
<troy_s> i just can't see anyone being exactly happy
<Chipzz> but it is not
<troy_s> chipzz -- don't know.  there was plenty discussion regarding pairing down all of the art / theme elements in edgy
<troy_s> to get some space back
<Chipzz> and this breaks my grub setup
<troy_s> frank would probably be able to tell you quite off the top
<Who_> troy_s: I don't care if I am personally happy with the work - that is what I do Blubuntu for - I want to see cohesivness and professioinality
<Chipzz> yes the artwork package was split up
<troy_s> who_ exactly
<troy_s> but i fear that even with that modest goal
<troy_s> it is almost impossible to achieve strictly trying to appease sabdfl.
<Chipzz> I know that, all the packages the new package depends on were installed
<Chipzz> but no grub artwork :S
<troy_s> chipzz email frank
<troy_s> who_ you with me?
<Chipzz> troy_s: should I file a bug report alternatively?
<troy_s> so here is the ultimate option:  deal with completely discreet components that are completely frankensteined together (as with dapper for example)
<troy_s> chipzz start with frank
<troy_s> chipzz he is the aic and has bzr access to fix that issue
<Chipzz> troy_s: email?
<troy_s> www.launchpad.net/people
<Who_> troy_s: yes - I am becoming more sure that he either needs to: lead the group and guide us, or step back and let the person he chooses guide us and the direction
<troy_s> do a search for frank schoep
<troy_s> who_ well he will hire an art director
<troy_s> but
<troy_s> i don't think anyone will stick around too long
<troy_s> factually speaking... the fundamental elements are very contradicting to integrate into a whole.
<Who_> I think if they get space it would be pretty rewarding to work with the team
<troy_s> i have tried _countless_ times to start at the gdm and work to a wallpaper
<troy_s> but it is damn impossible.
<troy_s> because coming from that gdm to a darker wallpaper
<troy_s> for example
<troy_s> the _only_ things that seemed to be even remotely positive
<troy_s> in terms of reception from him
<Who_> that is exactly how I got to the swirls (which make a good wallpaper, imo and imgfo... we've been using it)
<troy_s> were two wallpapers that i knocked off attempting to use an identical palette from dapper
<troy_s> and even the godawful composition
<troy_s> which resulted in this obtuse looking thing that wasn't very ... good.  ;)
<troy_s> alas, he seemed to gravitate to them...
<troy_s> largely _probably_ because of the subconscious similarity to what is already present.
<troy_s> lets see if i can dig up the comment on swirl.
<Who_> yea...I'll put up something else I tried today
<troy_s> well if it is gdm, don't bother.
<troy_s> the only real way to get some element of change is to have someone with some credibility
<troy_s> step up and offer an insightful review of the ubuntu look
<troy_s> which probably won't happen
<troy_s> it is visual musac
<Who_> lol
<troy_s> which is damn hard to design for when the framework for the musac is A) undefined B) all over the map C) subject to completely useless bikeshedding.
<Who_> I think if Edgy isn't much better than Dapper then two things will happen) 1. the people of digg will wonder how a team that was producing lots of interesting work didn't get much of it in, and 2) some 'official' reviewers will point out the lack of coherence
<troy_s> especially considering that research shows you are to treat a positive comment as 10x that of a negative
<Who_> both of which may carry some weight
<troy_s> hardly
<Who_> you don't think cnet reviews that are not good will do anything?
<troy_s> laf
<troy_s> well... let knot3 die
<troy_s> basically, pull all of the work and revert to dapper
<troy_s> is about the best we can hope for
<troy_s> well...
<troy_s> again
<troy_s> cnet reviews are great, but the bottom line is that it doesn't matter who you are ultimately trying to appease
<Who_> troy_s: can you be any more clear on which elements of the recent GDMs you think sabdfl won't like - they are like the JMAK ones that he said were great, they are like the icons he likes...
<troy_s> the structure is still missing
<troy_s> who_ all of them
<Who_> troy_s: oh dear :P
<troy_s> if i were forced into a corner and _had_ to
<troy_s> estimate on the sabdfl aesthetic
<troy_s> i would say that
<troy_s> A) he is against buttons
<troy_s> B) he is pro monochromatic
<troy_s> anyways... i must jet.
<KurtKraut> troy_s, let me ask you something
<KurtKraut> troy_s, the Edgy's design should please the community or the sabdfl personal taste ?
<troy_s> kurtkraut -- either would work for me.
<troy_s> but i fear ultimately neither.
<nysosym> hi there
<nysosym> any icon devs for edgy here?
<andreasn> nysosym: hm, kind of
<nysosym> hi kwwii_ :)
<andreasn> nysosym: I have nothing with human to to, but I do stuff on tango and tangerine
<kwwii> nysosym: howdy
<andreasn> and g-i-t
<nysosym> andreasn: good to know, but i have a "problem" with human icons
<andreasn> nothing I can do then, sorry :(
<kwwii> nysosym: send an email to the list
<nysosym> kwwii: i will do that! :)
<Viper550> I see we have some good comments on Knot 3
<PingunZ> Viper550: Where ?
<Viper550> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Artwork/Incoming/Kubuntu-Edgy-Ideas-Feedback
<PingunZ> My firefox totally crashes when I open that site, rofl
<Viper550> You use KDE?
<PingunZ> Nowp, gnome-freak :)
<PingunZ> So it doesn't matter actually.. I can read it but my firefox looks horrible while opening the site
<PingunZ> I'll upload the picture of firefox ;)
<Viper550> http://bay01.imagebay.com/bay.php?view=7504_dualgradient.png kwwii, I made an even nicer new gradient!
<PingunZ> http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=crashffob2.png :)
<kwwii> Viper550: I am running to the store to get food for dinner, I will check it out when I get back, ok?
<Viper550> okay, you get your good eats and we'll deliberate later!
* effraie s'absente pour sortir les poubelles
<Viper550> Sorting trash eh?
<ryanakca> Viper550: found you :P
<Viper550> hi
<Viper550> I've decided to while I wait for Ubuntu Edgy to come out with my theme, to contribute to Kubuntu
<ryanakca> :)
* ryanakca pokes at his metabar theme... anybody feel like giving me their opinion on it?
<ryanakca> What to change... what to keep, etc
<Viper550> You wanna try out my Crystal Overlay?
<Viper550> p.s. Metabar whacking up APT is what caused me to switch to FC5
<ryanakca> now that kubuntu is blueish purple... that mean's I'll have to change it though...
<ryanakca> Viper550: crystal overlay... for...
<effraie> Viper550: scuse me, i though i was on an other chan
<Viper550> The window border
<ryanakca> ah, in kubuntu?
<Viper550> yeah
<ryanakca> or ubuntu?
<ryanakca> good, kubuntu, link?
<Viper550> http://bay01.imagebay.com/bay.php?view=7504_dualgradient.png
<ryanakca> Am I supposed to see anything?
<Viper550> PingunZ: Uslab=instant win
<Viper550> It's transparent PNG
<ryanakca> All I see is a blue background with a blue box
<ryanakca> ah
<ryanakca> How do I test it?
<Viper550> Save it somewhere, go to System Settings/Control Center
<Viper550> Go to Window Decorations, select Crystal, and go to the Overlay tab
* ryanakca twiddles while kcontrol opens up on his uber slow box
<ryanakca> yes, there
<Viper550> how uber slow is it?
<ryanakca> Active window? or Inactive Window
<ryanakca> Viper550: takes about 10 seconds for kcontrol to load...
<Viper550> Select userdefined, and use the fileselector to select your saved file ON BOTH SIDES
<Viper550> (and I meant, how much memory do you have and such/such)
<ryanakca> but then take into consideration that this is my Server & Desktop box...
<ryanakca> Sysinfo for 'rkavanagh': Linux 2.6.17-7-386 running KDE 3.5.4, CPU: Pentium III (Coppermine) at 996 MHz (1995 bogomips), HD: 38/186GB, RAM: 370/375MB, 160 proc's, 1.17d up
<Viper550> oh, mine, pretty close to that, Athlon TB, 2.6, KDE 3.5.3, 256 mb ram
<ryanakca> I have apache + mysql + (too many apps to list)
<Viper550> I'm not a server at least, takes about 3-5 seconds
<ryanakca> If I killed some of them it would run much faster... and if I ran swapoff on my swap.. *gulp*... that's what's keeping it going... since 370/375mb of my ram is being used...
<ryanakca> oooh, I like
<Viper550> Nice? I'm waiting for kwwii's opinion
<PingunZ> Viper550: <Viper550> PingunZ: Uslab=instant win -> ??
<Viper550> Uslab=my mod of the Slab panel from SLED 10 to be more optimized for Ubuntu
<ryanakca> very
<ryanakca> brb, I'm going to go compare with default settings...
<ryanakca> I still have the purple windecs for some reason...
<PingunZ> Viper550: I hacked slab too :)
<PingunZ> I'll post you a screenie :)
<Viper550> Oh wait, you are the Gslab guy right?
<PingunZ> http://ubuntuforums.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=3522&cat=500&ppuser=37394
<PingunZ> Viper550: That's darkmatter :)
<Viper550> nice, still!
<PingunZ> Thanks
<PingunZ> how does yours look like ?
<Viper550> Oooh, Compiz...if only my Linux computer were powerful...my Main Windows computer can do Compiz (off that Live CD)
<PingunZ> Eek, I haven't used windows in a few months :)
<Viper550> My Linux compy is dual-boot, XP and FC5
<PingunZ> It's not user-friendly enough for me -> Windows :)
<Viper550> I'm also switching my friend to Dapper today, I hope she likes the brown...
<PingunZ> Viper550: YOu're in the art team .. make her desky look nice :)
<Viper550> I might give her a preview of Tropic
<PingunZ> Viper550: I'm still waiting for a Usplab screenshot ;)
<PingunZ> Show her some teams and then make her desktop look like it ;)
<Viper550> Uslab isn't much, it just changes the icon and removes the integrating with Zen Updater
<PingunZ> Screenie, screenie :)
<PingunZ> Or you could send the source ..
<Viper550> I'm not that much of a slab fan, it's not visually different, it's just what you have but without the mods to the actual menu
<Viper550> And ryanacka, I have some other destined artwork that you can try, a new panel background! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Kubuntu-Edgy-Ideas?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=glosspanel_kubuntu.jpg
<ryanakca> *cough*
<ryanakca> enough system crashes for the day :)
<PingunZ> http://ubuntuforums.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=2297
<PingunZ> What a sweet wallpaper !
<ryanakca> yeah
<PingunZ> Hey, I'm trying to edit my gtk theme :) What's the name of gnome-panel ?
<PingunZ> I'm using the Murrina engine btw
<troy_s> PingunZ did ryanakca do the stone with the ubuntu logo imprinted on it?
<PingunZ> troy_s: What do you mean ?
<PingunZ> http://ubuntuforums.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=2297 --> This wall ?
<ryanakca> troy_s: no...
<Viper550> Everyone's still here I see
<Viper550> kwwii, you tried out my overlay?
<kwwii> Viper550: doing so now
<Viper550> Okay...
<kwwii> Viper550: I do not like that the gradient ends at the bottom with a lighter color than the rest of the window frame, it looks like it is not part of it
<Viper550> You mean the gloss?
<kwwii> yepp...I made like 20 different ones, and although some of them look awesome, the make the title bar stand out from the rest of the frame
<kwwii>  one second, I will show you
<Viper550> Hmm, maybe I only need the top section...
<kwwii> http://bootsplash.org/windowdecotest2.png
<kwwii> that about fits to your panel background
<kwwii> but then I would have to chang the buttons
<Viper550> 403'd
<kwwii> oops
<kwwii> ok, try again
<Viper550> I remember that overlay
<kwwii> that is in my screenshots
<kwwii> perhaps I should work on the buttons, but people kinda liked the effect, so I would hate to change things around now
<kwwii> perhaps we could try it though
<Viper550> Just let me upload this improved version I made
<Viper550> http://bay01.imagebay.com/bay.php?view=7516_glossoverlay.png
<kwwii> can you point me to your panel bg pic again? I lost it somewhere
<Viper550> This one works alot better because it only skins the top, and it still gives the "doublegloss" effect on the buttons
<Viper550> http://bay01.imagebay.com/bay.php?view=7517_glosspanel_kubuntu.jpg
<Viper550> I actually kinda like the effect that your buttons have with an overlay of gloss, looks unique and fresh
<kwwii> boah, something is totally broken on my edgy
<kwwii> it cannot show any panel bg pics without messing things up
<Viper550> uh oh, what happen? did someone set us up the bomb?
<Viper550> Well, it was YOUR choice to use alpha software!
<kwwii> ;-)
<kwwii> no, it is my job
<Viper550> I could make you a screenshot, I have different icons and wallpaper but it's close
<kwwii> I got it working again
<kwwii> had to restart kicker
<Viper550> oh, never mind
<kwwii> I think that that last version is way too light on top
<kwwii> but the panel bg is right on
<kwwii> perhaps we could use a window gradient like this
<kwwii> have to see what people think
<Viper550> I can adjust the overlay again
* Viper550 goes experimenting
<kwwii> http://bootsplash.org/windowdecotest2.png in the window deco overlays and http://bootsplash.org/glosspanel_kubuntu.jpg for the panel bg looks best to me
<kwwii> yes,that is your panelbg
<kwwii> :-)
<kwwii> but with that I need to make the buttons not stick out so much
<kwwii> make them look more like they are inside the glass
<Viper550> But, the dark overlay kinda looks a bit...weird streaked inside the buttons
<Viper550> That's why I used the white
<Viper550> (updated) http://bay01.imagebay.com/bay.php?view=7518_glossoverlay.png
<PingunZ> Wohoo, my edgy's look is finally done :) http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/39902155/
<PingunZ> Comments are welcome.. Bah I stfu :)
<Viper550> Awesome...
<PingunZ> ty :)
<PingunZ> I had a lot of work to make it look that way :)
<Viper550> So kwwii, you like the new one?
<kwwii> let me check it, one second
<kwwii> hrm, it looks about the same as the last one
<kwwii> the top part of my window deco is much lighter than the bottom
<kwwii> not sure that I like that, sorry
<Viper550> Wait, were there any changes to the actual color scheme? Also it's supposed to be like that, it's gloss!
<kwwii>  yes, the color scheme was updated in knot3
<kwwii> my point is that the effect is a bit too exagerated
<kwwii> not bad or wrong, just too much for me
<kwwii> then again, I have small screen on my test system
<Viper550> Mine is 1280x1024, LCD
<kwwii> I have a small but very good crt
<Viper550> oh, 1024x768?
<kwwii> yepp
<PingunZ> Oh, I'm goin g for a 20.1 " 1600*1200 screen :)
<kwwii> I will try it later on my big mac (when I can reboot into linux, working on cutting video now)
<PingunZ> rofl @ big mac :)
<Viper550> oh, no wonder! (think you could upload the new color scheme?)
<Viper550> still there kwwii?
<kwwii> yepp, just talking to my wife
<Viper550> Some more adjustments... http://bay01.imagebay.com/bay.php?view=7519_glossoverlay.png
<kwwii> Viper550: you'll find the new colorscheme in http://bootsplash.org/KnotImages_plus.tar.gz (among other things)
* kwwii watches a film, so I am semi-afk
<Viper550> Lookin' good
<Viper550> Maybe I'll get some help from users...while you watch your blockbuster type video file
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-09-17
<Jak08> hello everyone
<troy_s> hello Jak08
<Burgundavia> troy_s: you know we already have a palette
<troy_s> You know that the GDM doesn't follow it.
<Burgundavia> troy_s: no, talking about your page about sabdfl stuff
<troy_s> Yes.  I am aware of the 'official' palette, but considering that of the four primary elements
<troy_s> Not one abides by it.
<Burgundavia> troy_s: be nice if the official palette could be updated them
<Burgundavia> then
<troy_s> indeed.
<troy_s> but i think the larger question needs tackling.
<Burgundavia> such as?
<troy_s> finding a palette that sabdfl would agree upon.
<troy_s> i think would be a good starting point.
<nysosym> Hi all
<Viper550> Hello
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-09-10
<lapo> hi
<LDS_Trooper> Greetings! Anyone home?
<axxium> Hi, where would I find tasks to do? Is there a list somewhere or mostly bug reports?
<nothlit> axxium: not much to do, final artwork deadline is coming soon, you may be able to submit a wallpaper if you work fast, within a day or two
<nothlit> but tbh the community doesn't do much in terms of artwork
<axxium> So the main goal of the community art groups is...
<axxium> ?
<nothlit> you can get some of an idea from the mailing list https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
<axxium> I have subscribed a few days ago  :)
<axxium> I would love to help, so I'm asking in case I was missing something.
<axxium> :)
<nothlit> theres a specific vision of what ubuntu should officially look like, so theres not too much for the artists to do
<axxium> I've been helping a few LoCo groups with artwork. I think I'll continue along that path then since I can be more helpful that way.
<axxium> :)
<nothlit> axxium: you can still submit wallpapers, that can be included in a community package
<axxium> great
<axxium> I'm happy with that :)
<kwwii> wallpapers, icons, etc
<nothlit> kwwii: https://people.fluxbuntu.org/~nothlit/communitytheme/gutsy/wallpapers/
<kwwii> hehe, the first one looks like chocolate - everyone loves chocolate :-)
<lapo> yummy
<kwwii> I like the texture in the second one too
<kwwii> one thing to think about though is that you really do not want to change the logo too much
<nothlit> ahh
<nothlit> i've done as much as i can giving it an organic look but still following the guidelines, same exact base colours, same orientation
<nothlit> have i strayed too far?
<lapo> nothlit: I wouldn't use the logo at all
<nothlit> lapo: just paint random light textures? thats no fun
<lapo> nothlit: looks at the big guys (ms and apple) no logo bg, or just one eventually
<kwwii> if a logo then a small half transparent one or such, I think
<kwwii> mainly, my point was to not change the logo that much
<kwwii> as that breaks branding rules
<lapo> yeah, but you shouldn't ship something like 10 logo bg in the community pack, just 1 or 2 if you really need
<kwwii> lapo: this would not be on the install CD's
<lapo> kwwii: same imho
<lapo> hi
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-09-11
<lapo> hi
<nothlit> hihi
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-09-12
<lapo> hi
* kwwii -> lunch
<nothlit> lapo: do you have anything cooking for -buntu?
<lapo> nothlit: I'm just restructuring tangerine-icon-theme a bit
<nothlit> no additions/modifications at all?
<lapo> nothlit: I'd like to cover all the icons in the default install menus at least
<lapo> change the computer monitors to something similar to the new default bg which is not defined yet
<lapo> that's mostly the plan
<nothlit> cool
<nothlit> is sabdfl anywhere close to moving away from his human iconset?
<lapo> no idea
<lapo> I hope so tho :-)
<kwwii> hi guys
<kwwii> I think that if anything, we will re-work the human icons, not replace them with tango or such
<kwwii> the biggest thing against tango at this point is that it is basically a Novell thing and as a different product and company we want our own look and that has to be somewhat different than what the other companies products are making
<andreasn> the style guidelines or tango-icon-theme?
<andreasn> the style guidelines more turned into more of a gnome thing than a novell thing at this point
<andreasn> and quite a number of application developers have picked it up, so in case you select a "unique look", you'll have the drawback that you always have to play catch up and look incomplete, and that's kind of unprofessional
<andreasn> so if you decide to redo human, leaning a bit closer towards the tango style guidelines might be a good idea
<nothlit> you wouldn't need the guidelines necessarily, just a general semicompatible look
<andreasn> or oxygen maybe, guess they both look the same more or less
<andreasn> nothlit: yeah, perhaps
<andreasn> I guess it would be a good thing to be able to point a ISV to a document and say "well, if you do your interface like this, it will look good on other distros as well"
<andreasn> but I guess I do too much ISV-work, so this is just from my point of view
<andreasn> I guess a distro that wants to brand itself have other priorities
<nothlit> is there any kubuntu-specific iconset actually?
<andreasn> well, crystal, but that's not kubuntu specific
<andreasn> or oxygen I gues
<andreasn> s
<kwwii> reading back....
<kwwii> andreasn: agreed, I think the guidelines would need to be followed in future sets to fit in well
<kwwii> nothlit: no there is no kubuntu specific icon set, we stick to exactly what upstream kde uses
<andreasn> sounds good, then you would have control over your own base set, while still fitting in with all the other stuff
<kwwii> well, we do have 2-3 icons with a kubuntu logo pasted on top of them, but they are stock icons
<kwwii> andreasn: exactly
<andreasn> that would sooo much make my job a better place
<kwwii> andreasn: in addition the tango guidelines are the best starting point I know of to point people at saying "this is the best way to make good icons"
<andreasn> jimmac did quite a good work on those, really simple for people to follow it seems
<andreasn> well, anyway, I better get back to work
<kwwii> it makes working with third-party icon designers much easier (especially those who have never made icons before)
<nothlit> andreasn: the whole page is good, the examples and illustrations bolster its effectiveness a lot imo
<kwwii> yeah, have fun
<andreasn> fun and fun ;)
<andreasn> nah, some of it is pretty fun actually
<andreasn> some is not :)
<kwwii> they would not pay you to do it if it was always fun ;-)
<andreasn> so true
<lapo> not so true, they will continue paying andreasn 'cause he is good, if you're not good guidelines are not usefull :-)
<andreasn> lapo: oh, I was referring to some print work I'm working on
<lapo> kwwii: as I said a several time, tango is not a novell thing anymore, and everything something which integrate nicelly with it is a waste of time imho, since you should just use tango style
<lapo> but mark is the one who pays the bills so he has the right to choose watherever he like
<lapo> even if it *not the right thing to do, as in this case
<nothlit> tango is more a clarity and consistency guideline than an artwork style, i know some people prefer being more experimental
<andreasn> well, that's what we talked about, basing a set upon the guidelines
<lapo> nothlit: that's the problem of icons in oss
<lapo> nothlit: following tango style will make your icons integrate nicelly with the rest, if you want to do different things you can, but you know that it will eventually look out of place in a gnome desktop for example
<andreasn> well, we made stuff more themable (in epiphany, evince etc.) so that you could throw you in you more experimental stuff, hopefully you can have something more sane for the default
<nothlit> i think its great that FOSS icons are far more consistent than windows'
<lapo> imho human doesn't integrate nicelly with the rest of gnome icons and it's a mishmash of style that I can't stand. So we have tangerine which follows ubuntu colors more or less and integrate better with the rest, but if you can stand the mishmash and you like it you should just use it :-)
<nothlit> but not having only tango out there is important :P
<lapo> nothlit:. sure, but the price you pay having something different is polishness and integratio with the rest of the desktop
<lapo> naturally you could dream of doing all the icons, but you'd need at least 5 designers working on it for several mounths
<nothlit> nothing wrong with a little bit of diversity available, tango is becoming the standard with other styles being extra anyways
<andreasn> nothlit: yeah, and that's why stuff are more themeable now
<nothlit> it'd be cool if we could find a compromise for ubuntu in between
<nothlit> imo, i know you two love tango
<andreasn> well, love and love
<andreasn> it makes my job easier
<lapo> nothlit: I don't love tango I think it has its quick, but you I love coherence and polishness, and you haven't any other choice
<andreasn> so it's not like "hi! I need you to draw icons for our gnu/linux software, but you have to make 11 sets, one for each distro"
<lapo> I know how hard is doing a whole theme covering all the naming specs base set, and it's even not enough to have a consistent ui
<lapo> to have something "mac grade" polished, the base set coverage is roughly less then half of the icons needed
<lapo> so the smartest thing to do for ubuntu will be to leave gnome style alone and just accept upstream decision, as they do with kde
<lapo> anyway I'm not the boss there and I already told mark he is wasting time and money with human :-)
<nothlit> ubuntu at the minimum needs the palette change lol
<lapo> nothlit: brown was a brilliant idea, 'cause it's unique even if it's not something everybody like, but especially with graphics you can't really please everybody
<lapo> so a strong decision was ok there
<lapo> my point is that it's silly to do branding with ui elements (icons specifically)
<nothlit> nothing wrong with brown, just unfortunate combinations earlier
<lapo> and I think it's damaging the gnome desktop actually for the ISV problem andreasn decribed
<nothlit> thats where branding has the largest effect on the masses though
<lapo> nothlit: you can have branding being tango style changing just a bunch of icons
<lapo> nothlit: introducing another style with palette and guideliness for a lot of them is not usefull, not working and dangerous
<lapo> nothlit: look at bluecurve which is a great piece of artwork and it's the most complete theme around
<lapo> if you use bluecurve you have a messy ui, since it doesn't integrate with the rest, and as complete as the theme can be it cannot really cover every icon around
<lapo> human not even as good as bluecurve
<lapo> anyway, I have work to do :-)
<andreasn> rambling you :)
<lapo> andreasn: I should write all this stuff somewhere and just post the links, I'm saying the same sh*t over and over and over :-))
<nothlit> sure, but they haven't planned any compatibility with tango at all
<lapo> nothlit: my point is that you cannot
<andreasn> lapo: like a manifest?
<andreasn> :)
<lapo> nothlit: you can reach a level of integration, say like 80% which is not enough to my eyes to have a consistent desktop, if you want 100% you need to be tango style
<lapo> at least in a gnome environment
<lapo> nothlit: tangerine was just a demostration so we didn't put much efforts in it, it's mostly 4 or 5 original icons and some recolored or mixed stuff
<lapo> nothlit: but with, say a folder design, the tangerine hw design (copied by human) and some other bits here and there, you'll have a tango style branded theme
<andreasn> that would be kind of neat to run as a project for the next release
<lapo> quite easy to do, better results, better integration, less efforts to produce it then the human mishmash (read less money)
<lapo> andreasn: it's something I wanted to do for this one, but I was taken away by g-i-t
<andreasn> you did totally great work on g-i-t though!
<lapo> thanks, you helped there so congrats yourself as well :-)
<andreasn> reminds me that I need to send some highcontrast stuff to luca today
<andreasn> even though it's probably to late to put into 2.20
<lapo> frankly speaking tho, I could produce something nice for ubuntu, but thinking of having it relegated to a fallback theme it's an energy stop
<lapo> so focusing on upstream is better, since it will be good anyone and not just a subset of ubuntu users
<andreasn> yeah, I feel that too
<nothlit> lapo: could be an independently released theme if not adopted immediately
<lapo> nothlit: I'm interested in solving ui problems not in making good looking icon themes
<lapo> nothlit: the most difficult thing for g-i-t was not drawing the icons, that's the legwork, but finding good metaphors
<nothlit> there were metaphors not already solved by tango?
<nothlit> i didn't know there was so much g-i-t handled on its own
<lapo> nothlit: tango-icon-theme is untouched since an year or so
<kwwii> lapo: my point is this: which distributions ship with tango?
<kwwii> as default, I mean
<lapo> kwwii: debian?
<lapo> kwwii: novell ships tango-icon-theme as default with some novell tweaking
<lapo> kwwii: I'm talking about gnome-icon-theme, which is gnome *upstream* default
<lapo> so atm ubuntu is not a "pure" reference gnome distro, as kubuntu is for kde for example
<andreasn> fedora
<andreasn> foresight
<kwwii> lapo: right, and ubuntu was not meant to be that - that is what gobuntu is for, I think
<kwwii> my point is that because novell is the only big distro to ship (and make) tango icons I do not think that anyone else is interested in shipping them as default
<kwwii> anyway
<kwwii> time for basketball
<andreasn> ubuntu studio
<andreasn> yeah, let's continue this some other day
<andreasn> xubuntu
<andreasn> hm, I wish I was better at distros
<lapo> kwwii: make? I'm not from novell :-)
<lapo> kwwii: and I'm not looking for a job, so I can be an ass w/o too many problems :-)
<lapo> kwwii: anyway I'm not interested about discussing this stuff, I prefer to produce then talk, but what you're saying is untrue at least
<lapo> and the perception you have about tango is wrong, yes probably t was started by novell and there were some secret goals I'm not aware about, but now tango style is what upstream gnome choosed and it's the direction other gnome application (not only gnome) are following
<lapo> and the only novell guy nowdays working on tango project itself is jakub, which is even the only one still in novell from the initial tango project theme
<lapo> so it should be the right time to stop this stupid novell paranoia
* lapo shut up, really this time :-)
<kwwii> lapo: all I pointed out was the Novell is the biggest/only commercial distro which ships Tango itself by default. That is the main reason why we want to use a slightly different icon set - it helps us stand out and increases our branding awareness
<kwwii> I agree completely with creating icons using the tango guidelines as a starting point
<kwwii> this was not my decision to begin with, nor can I change it overnight
<lapo> kwwii: I never said to use tango icon theme (which is just an example implementation of the guidelines..blah, blah, blah) as a default, I'm only talking (as I ever did) about using something which follows the tango guidelines, as fedora, debian, <insert a random gnome distro here> are doing (doing the right thing even)
<lapo> anyway I'm sick about saying the same thing over and over so I'll quit di discussion, sorry
<andreasn> kwwii, lapo: so you both agree more or less :)
<kwwii> andreasn: yeah, that is what I thought too :-)
<andreasn> :)
<andreasn> I saw the window decorations nuno did on his blog the other day, those looked pretty neat
<kwwii> I am kinda worried that the oxygen style will not have enough contrast...time will tell
<andreasn> yeah, I was thinking that as well, makes great screenshots though :)
<andreasn> or do you mean overall with the icon set as well?=
<kwwii> more just the styles and the window deco - the icons are perfect, of course :D
<kwwii> s/styles/style
<andreasn> of course, and you're not biased at all ;)
<andreasn> so, yeah, time will tell, good to experiment though
<kwwii> me?! no, not at all
<kwwii> maybe I should put the oxygen icons in ubuntu too!!!
<kwwii> just to hear people scream
<andreasn> haha
<kwwii> I bet if I did that people would complain a lot less about the human icons ;-)
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-09-13
<lapo> hi
<nothlit> lapo: how is the artlibre set going? i'm still waiting for gimp to get tango icons, i've got them in inkscape and blender already
<lapo> nothlit: not much work going in art libre latelly :-/
<lapo> nothlit: anyway gimp has tango icons already (2.4)
<nothlit> yeah, i've been waiting for the release
<lapo> nothlit: gusty has ships the latest gimp
<lapo> s/has//
<nothlit> lapo: cool
<andreasn> latest scribus also have updated icons
<andreasn> still in the process of getting the inkscape icons upstream, but hopefully we can get them in the 0.46(?) release
<lapo> andreasn: it would be nicer to have them depends on art libre with a sane icon lookup tho
<andreasn> well, yeah, probably. But we both know that is a complicated process
<andreasn> or, well, we need someone to write a patch
<nothlit> most developers aren't interested in spending their time on that though =/
<andreasn> well, perhaps proudhike or someone could give us a hand
<andreasn> perhaps we could nail down the no-size-fits-all problem as well
<andreasn> 16x16 vs. 22x22
<andreasn> I'll see if I can get hold of him
<kwwii> I wish we could just et rid of 16x16 icons and change 22x22 to 24x24
<andreasn> because it's dividable by 8?
<andreasn> I really don't think icons help in menus most of the time, but I guess we still need the 16x16's there if we want to keep that
<kwwii> yeah ;-(
<nothlit> we <really> need to make launchpad accept standard icon sizes
<kwwii> I talked to them, they blew me off
<nothlit> the devs just blew you off?
<nothlit> wow
<kwwii> more like the head of luanchpad blew me off
<kwwii> he said that is what the design company that made the layout decided
<kwwii> the small icons are like 14x14 iirc
<nothlit> yeah
<lapo> hi
<Skiessi> hi
<agentk_> ho
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-09-14
<lapo> hi
<nothlit> hihi
* #ubuntu-artwork  [freenode-info]  if you need to send private messages, please register: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-09-15
<Skiessi> @fortune
<Skiessi> !fortune
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about fortune - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<Skiessi> !futurama
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about futurama - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<Skiessi> @chuck
<Skiessi> "In #ubuntu-offtopic, the following functions are enabled:" wth, only in #ubuntu-offtopic?
<Skiessi> hi
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-09-16
<Jeroe1> does anybody know where this icon is located on my filesystem? I like it a lot and would like to use it somewhere else, but can't seem to find it: http://bayimg.com/mAgOeaabP
<lapo> hi
<Locuaz> hello .. .can somebody help me?
<Locuaz> if there is some windows emulator i love ubuntu but i need some programs. like 3dsmax or vectorworks.. working in ubuntu... please some body cantell if thereis some emulator windows.
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-09-08
<kwwii> moin moin
<rsc_> moin moin?
<rsc_> :)
<kwwii> good morning
<rsc_> oh, right.
<rsc_> what time is it there?
<kwwii> 8:25 am
<kwwii> there?
<rsc_> well, 2:30 in the afternoon here in the Philippines.
<rsc_> :)
<kwwii> :-)
<njpatel> kwwii: ping
 * _MMA_ waves at Neil. :)
<njpatel> _MMA_: hey dude
<njpatel> :-)
<njpatel> _MMA_: how are things?
<_MMA_> Um, busy. Lots of "life" stuff.
<_MMA_> Nothing dire. Just things to work through.
<njpatel> cool
<_MMA_> Ill bbl. Im gonna upgrade the lappy to Intrepid.
<kwwii> njpatel: hey man
<njpatel> kwwii: hey dude -- a quick question (which I think I've asked before): do you have hi-res (or at least 48x48) for applications-graphics & applications-games for Human icon theme?
<njpatel> we need them for UNR as the launcher has to scale the 24x24, and they look bad
<kwwii> njpatel: nope, sure don't
<njpatel> dammit :-)
<kwwii> the graphics icon is amazingly close the oxygen version
<kwwii> I never realized we stole that :p
<njpatel> hehe
<njpatel> kwwii: any reason there's no hi-res?
 * njpatel goes to find another orange icon theme
<kwwii> njpatel: because we paid icon factory to make those and they wouldn't give us the files
<njpatel> kwwii: oh, right
<kwwii> njpatel: but, there is an effort started to make new icons
<kwwii> but it just started, so don't expect anything there either :p
<njpatel> kwwii: good to know :-)
<njpatel> hehe
<andreasn> njpatel: you need a orange icon set that have scalable (48x48 canvas) or High Res like 256x256?
<njpatel> andreasn: 48x48 would do fine
<njpatel> andreasn: png is fine
<andreasn> njpatel: perhaps tangerine-icon-theme is your friend in that case
<pwnguin> njpatel: ive been thinking about a wider community icon project
 * pwnguin would prefer svg icons ;)
<njpatel> andreasn: on hardy, tangerine has no category icons....are there updates?
<njpatel> andreasn: and if so...where do I find the latest? :-)
<njpatel> pwnguin: that would be cool. Human covers it okay, it's just these two category icons which seem to lack
<andreasn> njpatel: it falls back on gnome-icon-theme that have those in all sizes needed, tangerine is just the orange folders + some other orange elements in some icons
<pwnguin> i need to get my power cord back and test your netbook stuff some more
<pwnguin> pngs are okay at netbook sizes, but my tablet is 14" and svgs do a better job ;)
<andreasn> njpatel: http://svn.gnome.org/viewvc/gnome-icon-theme/trunk/scalable/categories/applications-games.svg?revision=1669&view=markup
<andreasn> http://svn.gnome.org/viewvc/gnome-icon-theme/trunk/scalable/categories/applications-graphics.svg?revision=1669&view=markup
<njpatel> andreasn: right, thanks
<njpatel> andreasn: I'm wondering why GtkIconTheme isn't giving me an icon from gnome instead
<njpatel> as Human inherits from gnome too
<njpatel> I think it finds the icon in Human 24x24 and just thinks that it'll be better to use that then a completely different icon
<andreasn> njpatel: yeah, that's how it works I think
<njpatel> andreasn: thanks, I'll see how it looks with the gnome icons
<njpatel> pwnguin: running UNR on a 14" screen (i'm guessing it's a res > 1280x800) is not going to be fun :-)
<pwnguin> why not?
<pwnguin> it almost works quite well i find
<rsc_> hey guys! :)
<thorwil> hi rsc_
<rsc_> oi, thorwil!
<rsc_> :)
<rsc_> http://dump.ambiescent.com/i/dust-mmc.jpg
<rsc_> whatcha think?
<rsc_> hehe
<rsc_> (about the min-max-close buttons.)
<thorwil> rsc_: the left edge is unclear
<rsc_> left edge?
<thorwil> the symbols are problematic as you see such arrow heads on scrollbar buttons
<thorwil> rsc_: where the min button starts
<rsc_> yeah.
<rsc_> that was kinda the point.
<rsc_> i figured it'd be something new, but not hindering the functionality much.
<rsc_> I thought, at least :)
<pwnguin> found in a text book explaining how dpi and lpi affect quality: "this book was printed at 150 DPI..." <followed by a graphic comparing an image at 300 dpi, 200 dpi and 150 dpi>>
<thorwil> pwnguin: so they squeezed space by using a gravity field?
<pwnguin> i think the idea was the source image was higher resolution
<pwnguin> so you
<rsc_> so was there any difference between 300 vs. 200 vs. 150?
<pwnguin> no
<rsc_> if the book was printed at 150, it should theoretically look the same.
<pwnguin> they claimed there was, but it must take better eyes than I have
<thorwil> rsc_: almost. but different means of down-sampling should lead to subtle differences
<rsc_> hehe.
<pwnguin> but a 300 dpi to 150 dpi should basically be fantastic
<DanaG> My next laptop will be 1920x1200 at 15" -- nowadays, DPI scaling works pretty well.
<dilomo> hay I have a question about laptops
<dilomo> what's the best laptop for designer and a student( long battery life)
<dilomo> hmmm
<thorwil> welcome back _MMA_
 * _MMA_ is still wrestling with Intrepid issues. Is on a temp machine.
<_MMA_> But hi.
<thorwil> well, i'm still wrestling with the countdown images :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-09-09
<pwnguin> you know what would be neat? a totem pole from ubuntu animals
<DanaG> Why the heck do things keep getting OOM-killed?
<DanaG> er, wrong tab.
<Cimi> kwwii, ping
<Cimi> tell me when you'll be available this afternoon/evening, in CEST timezone
<kwwii> Cimi: pong
<kwwii> I am avaiable now (and later probably as well)
<Cimi> kwwii, maybe I'll change a bit the background of scrollbars and progressbars with the new contrast function, and maybe the highlight of the notebook
<kwwii> Cimi: cool, I was just working on getting a package ready...I can wait if you'd like and put in the newest stuff you have
<Cimi> also, I've seen one recent version of newhuman, and I have to admit I prefer the earlier versions, where the base color was saturated (not plain white) and where scrollbars were not colored
<kwwii> yeah, both of "my" themes need work...been busy doing other stuff unfortunately
<Cimi> kwwii, you can do a new package tonight or tomorrow, because if I will change something, it will be only notebook highlight and progressbar/scrollbar background
<Cimi> because with the new contrast function it changes color, and I don't want it
<Cimi> if you wait 10 minutes I do tat thing for the background
<kwwii> Cimi: cool, go right ahead :-)
<kwwii> I can wait until tonight, if that's enough time
<Cimi> kwwii, could you try rev 59?
<Cimi> btw I'm not sure of this
<Cimi> on low contrasts it could look odd
<kwwii> Cimi: sure, which svn are you using now?
<Cimi> mm
<Cimi> it is not looking odd at low contrasts
<Cimi> btw
<Cimi> rev 59 does not change the background of scrollbars and progressbars
<Cimi> 58 does
<Cimi> (when tou change the contrast)
<Cimi> please try both and tell me which behaviour you think is correct for a contrast function
<kwwii> Cimi: compiling now
<Cimi> http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/580/screenshot1pa4.png
<kwwii> let me restart my desktop
<kwwii> hrm, hard to tell the difference on a running system :p
<Ziroday-temp> kwwii: ping
<kwwii> Ziroday-temp: pong
<thorwil> bonjour!
<kwwii> servus
<rsc_> oi, thorwil. :)
<thorwil> hi rsc_
<rsc_> anything fresh? the mailing list has been quiet lately.
<thorwil> well, i'm still working on the countdown images
 * _MMA_ will have some more Breathe icon set info this week.
<rsc_> ah, swell
<rsc_> i can't wait to see progress on the icon theme.
<thorwil> i'm somewhat disappointed that apparently no one cares about bg colors for breathe. not exactly surprised, though
<rsc_> re: bg colors for breathe, i didn't really bother making noise in that thread since I knew there was no way to do it anyway :/
<thorwil> no way to do what?
<rsc_> but it really has been quite a problem that's plagued me whenever I make icons, and a solution for it would be wonderful IMHO.
<rsc_> having a different slightly-adjusted icon for different bg colors?
<thorwil> i was referring to the set of bg colors, not the post about automatic adjustment
<_MMA_> thorwil: I think most are like: "OK. Sounds good. Now give us new icons!" :) I hope to have the technicals done this week so I can get people submitting icons for a base set this weekend.
<thorwil> could be
<rsc_> ahh.
<_MMA_> thorwil: What would you consider a "base set"? folder, computer, home, hardrive, trash, CD and CD-ROM?
<thorwil> _MMA_: maybe the set used on gnome-look?
<_MMA_> No no. I'll have a call for replacements of Oxygen. A starting point.
<thorwil> _MMA_: your list sounds good, though
<_MMA_> Ok.
<_MMA_> thorwil: You might want to kill you perspective idea on the wiki if we're gonna follow Oxygen there.
<thorwil> _MMA_: i think it should be brought up at least
<thorwil> except if you are suddenly sure it's the right path
<_MMA_> I'm sure about following Oxygen and improving where we can.
<thorwil> _MMA_: i removed my note about trying gradation curves for adjusting to varying backgrounds. box and sphere make sense even just to pick up how oxygen does it
<thorwil> looks like "trivial change" means you will not get a notice
<_MMA_> thorwil: Sure. Could you look through them so you can make an image people can look at and understand?
<thorwil> hopefully
<_MMA_> thorwil: I tend to do that as I make alot of small mistakes. :)
<_MMA_> "trivial change"
<rsc_> _MMA_: Why not include some standard toolbar buttons too? (Back, forward, stop)
<rsc_> it's going to be visible a lot (ff/nautilus) on an average user's computer time.
<_MMA_> rsc_: Sure. I think that will go in the next round.
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-09-10
<aantn> hello
<_MMA_> thorwil: You gonna be available on Friday around 1900UTC?
<thorwil> _MMA_: should be no problem
<_MMA_> Cool. That should be the meeting time.
<thorwil> http://pages.usherbrooke.ca/mfesta/images/IsraelIbex1.jpg
<thorwil> ^ is his right horn (his pov) broken?
<thorwil> or are my geometry routines defect?
<Flannel> thorwil: broken
<kwwii> thorwil: hehe, broken indeed, but you barely notice it at first
<thorwil> kwwii: yeah, i only really started to wonder after tracing him! :)
<thorwil> now i need almost the same pose, but would like the silhouette of the head to be farther out of the body. plus 2 complete horns ...
 * thorwil pencils
<psyke83> hi
<psyke83> kwwii: you there?
<kwwii> psyke83: hey man
<psyke83> kwwii: hey, I haven't checked the latest update, but will you be putting newhuman-light in community-themes?
<dilomo> hello psyke83
<dilomo> may I ask you a question?
<psyke83> sure
<_MMA_> no! :)
<psyke83> you may ask a question, as long as you don't ask if you can ask questions anymore ;)
<_MMA_> !ask
<ubottu> Please don't ask to ask a question, ask the question (all on ONE line, so others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely answer. :-)
<_MMA_> :D
<dilomo> well I have an issue to
<dilomo> solve with New Wave
<dilomo> I want to make the menubar use light colors
<dilomo> but it is not possible with the gtkrc
 * thorwil hands cookies to _MMA_ and ubottu 
<dilomo> because firefox uses the color from menuitems that is black in my case
<dilomo> do you know how to override this?
<dilomo> needles to say I hate FF for that ;)
<psyke83> dilomo: you want to change the background or text colour?
<dilomo> text color
<dilomo> you can get the theme here:
<dilomo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/NewWave#Download
<psyke83> give me a minute to reboot, I'm not in Ubuntu at the moment
<dilomo> k
<dilomo> I've found this could theme partially (bg color and pixmap) the menubar
<dilomo> widget_class "MozillaGtkWidget*MenuBar"	        style :highest "newwave-menubar"#-mozilla"
<dilomo> _MMA_: what's up with the icons man
<_MMA_> Steady puttin' the technicals in place.
<psyke83> dilomo: so I grab the RC2 package?
<dilomo> psyke83: that's right
<dilomo> _MMA_: cool. when you expexct to be available
<dilomo> to the public
<_MMA_> dilomo: For what? Icon development?
<dilomo> yeah
<_MMA_> Maybe a week or so. I'll have a official announcement hopefully soon.
<dilomo> nice :)
<_MMA_> I'm just building a base. It will be up to others to do the actual icons.
<dilomo> the base is very important
<dilomo> because ppl would not like to lose their work so to say
<psyke83> dilomo: it seems something is messed up in the class definitions. I was working on a light version of the newhuman theme, and it doesn't have this problem (it also has light text on menubars)
<psyke83> gimme a few mins to try and sort this out
<dilomo> ok
<dilomo> probably I have messed up everything :)
<dilomo> so I have messed it up really impressive :)
<psyke83> dilomo, this is pretty baffling :P
<psyke83> I don't understand why Firefox isn't respecting the class properly in your theme, but does in another
<psyke83> there must be a conflict that isn't obvious
<dilomo> could it be in the way the matches are ordered?
<dilomo> or is it that it's a pixmap engine?
<dilomo> btw can you show me a theme that can do this so I can baffle too ;)
<psyke83> hmm, actually I think the problem isn't within "murrine-menubar", brb
<dilomo> murrine ? you mean the problem is not in the style "function"
<psyke83> (I meant the "newhuman-menuitem" style)
<psyke83> *"newwave-menuitem"
<dilomo> I've tried to use clearlooks instead of pixmap
<dilomo> but the result is the same
<psyke83> dilomo: ok, found the problem. Obviously it's a bug in Firefox, but it is possible to workaround if you are willing to make some changes to the look of menus system-wide
<dilomo> what changes are we talking about?
<psyke83> basically, it seems Firefox grabs the text colour from the GtkMenu class erroneously, so if you go to the "newwave-menu" section and change fg[NORMAL] to @bg_color, it will solve the issue. But, that will also affect menuitem text
<psyke83> if you change menus to use a darker background, then you can solve the issue
<psyke83> Firefox's GTK "emulation" sucks, and I don't think it'll get fixed soon - so you need to work around bugs like this for an "unusual" theme
<dilomo> hmm
<dilomo> I thought that I might do that in the end
<dilomo> but is there a way of making the popup /context menus
<dilomo> have light bg?
<psyke83> so, fg[NORMAL] has to be equal in "newwave-menubar" (for compliant apps) and "newwave-menu" (for Firefox/xulrunner apps)
<psyke83> you mean the ComboBox menus?
<dilomo> yes and the one like in textbox
<dilomo> copy paste and so on
<dilomo> so only dropdown menus from menubars to be dark
<dilomo> but all others to be light
<psyke83> well, I think Firefox probably uses the same sucky GTK emulation for GtkComboBox entries (which is used by textboxes)
<dilomo> ohh I hate firefox
<dilomo> why does not Ubuntu use Epiphany
<dilomo> it works
<_MMA_> mmmm.... Tabs and "compact list view". 'bout time. http://mma.users.ubuntustudio.org/nautilus.png
<psyke83> _MMA_, I actually think that it sucks :). I think a dual-paned setup is far better for a filemanager (then again, maybe I was spoiled by Directory Opus when I used the Amiga all those years ago...)
<_MMA_> bah... With massive amounts of files dual-pane is a *pain* on small screens.
<psyke83> I always used a 1024x768 resolution :P. The problem is GTK's whitespace and freetype's bloated text rendering
 * _MMA_ hugs his 1920x1600 screen.
<psyke83> if you compare e.g. Windows Explorer listview, Nautilus's listview (at the smallest zoom) is 2x the size
<_MMA_> Change the font size.
<_MMA_> I have no clue why we use such big fonts.
<psyke83> already at 9pt, the smallest size that's legible
<dilomo> whoaa this looks blurry
<_MMA_> Though, I set it smaller in Studio by default. :P
<dilomo> after all black text on dark grey isn't that bad ;-)
<dilomo> oh god why they do so stupid software
<dilomo> hey _MMA_ do you have some problems with FF with that dark theme?
<_MMA_> Yes.
<_MMA_> minimal though. Just one spot.
<_MMA_> But you have already been talking to the right guy. ;)
<dilomo> yes :)
<dilomo> psyke83: what do you think shoild be better
<dilomo> the dark text or not very usable menus?
<psyke83> dilomo: I would go with a dark menu background to workaround the Firefox bug
<dilomo> well at least I can try :)
<dilomo> btw how do you find the metacity theme
<dilomo> there are some complains about it and I think I should redesign the buttons form the ground up
<psyke83> there must be something wrong here, as the metacity theme isn't displaying properly (it's showing the NewHuman theme with a grey palette)
<psyke83> ah it works now
<psyke83> IMHO, a dark menu background looks a lot better
<psyke83> http://connogriofa.googlepages.com/xchat.png
<psyke83> I would change the menuitem prelight image and prelight colours, but it seems a change for the better nevertheless
<dilomo> It has the advantage that it will look like part of the menubar and titlebar
<dilomo> but will be harder to read
<dilomo> wow taht xchat looks good
<dilomo> do you think that I should change the menubar prelight too?
<psyke83> well, something light (since the background is no longer light)
<psyke83> er, I meant to change the prelight text for menuitems
<dilomo> no I mean the image that is used on File, Edit, View ...
<psyke83> yes, it's fine the way it is (unless you change the prelight image to something dark as well)
<dilomo> I think I'll keep it
<dilomo> man thanks a lot for your attempts to fix this
<dilomo> now you convinced me to change the menus
<psyke83> no prob
<dilomo> the color you use for menubg is 696969 right?
<psyke83> sure, but it didn't seem to change - I had to remove the whole "pixmap" subsection - so you'll need to tinker on that
<dilomo> ok
<dilomo> np
<dilomo> btw is it possible to theme the menubar on the Panel
<dilomo> differently than normal menubar
<_MMA_> You mean menubar vs. main-menu?
<dilomo> yes
<psyke83> I haven't looked into it extensively, but if it does, you'd need to use a widget class override, e.g.: widget_class "*Panel*Menu*" (or something more precise)
<psyke83> I'm not sure if gnome-panel advertises the widgets like that, though
<dilomo> I think it was #widget_class "*Panel*MenuBar*" style "newwave-panelbar"
<dilomo> in the gtkrc
<dilomo> but didn't helped
<dilomo> :(
<psyke83> what about "*Panel*Menu*"?
<dilomo> haven't tried it
<dilomo> I make menus darker can I still theme the main menu with light bg ?
<dilomo> using these matches will probabluy help
<dilomo> probably*
<psyke83> I don't know if it'll work
<_MMA_> dilomo: Are you trying to give the menubar menus a different color that the rest of the app menus?
<psyke83> ok, it does work
<psyke83> you need to override the style
<dilomo> how?
<dilomo> it's very important for me
<dilomo> is it like that "*Panel*Menu*"
<psyke83> change to: widget_class "*Panel*MenuBar*" style:highest "newwave-panelbar"
<psyke83> I tested by clearing the newwave-panelbar section and inserting bg[NORMAL] = @base_color, and it turned white
<psyke83> you need to pkill gnome-panel to see changes take effect
<dilomo> that is just fantastic
<_MMA_> psyke83: We gotta do something about Studio's tooltip colors. It's all too dark.
<dilomo> and I jsut fixed that overlay bug
<dilomo> that bothered me for so long
<dilomo> if notice the menubar bg has darker gradient
<psyke83> _MMA_,
<psyke83> remember we have to account for the gedit warning bubbles, etc
<_MMA_> gah. I hate GTK theming.
<dilomo> :)
 * _MMA_ goes to buy a mac.
<dilomo> btw can this yellow at the left of toolbaloons be canged
<dilomo> to smth else
<psyke83> _MMA_, don't wanna make your head assplode, but your Mac would still be affected after installing UbuntuStudio on it :P
<_MMA_> I'm gonna choke you.
<psyke83> heh
<_MMA_> Or...
<_MMA_> Ill buy a PPC G5. :P
<dilomo> :D
<_MMA_> No PPC Studio. ;)
<psyke83> that's nice, enjoy your obsolete OS and lack of applications, then :P
<_MMA_> w00t!
<_MMA_> Hey, I have a Color Classic that still runs like a champ. :)
<psyke83> maybe I'll go back to OS/2 to avoid this suffering as well (it's cheaper than buying new hardware :P)
<_MMA_> Isn't there still some sort of community around OS/2?
<psyke83> yeah, they're offering a bounty to get applications ported
<dilomo> :)
<_MMA_> Crazy. I believe in giving up at *some* point. Hell. Even Debian dropped HURD.
<dilomo> guys nice to chat with you
<dilomo> I cant thank enough to psyke83 that helped me sooo much
<dilomo> thank you again :)
<psyke83> sure :)
<dilomo> I have to go now
<dilomo> bye
<psyke83> _MMA_: which is why you'll never understand their blood sweat & tears :(
<_MMA_> pfftt...
<psyke83> bye
<_MMA_> Have ids. ;)
<_MMA_> *kids
<_MMA_> Later Conn.
<_MMA_> oh. he had to go.
<psyke83> _MMA_, I think we can add an override for gedit, btw
<_MMA_> if ya like. sure
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-09-11
<DanaG> OH GOD, MY EYES!   http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/10/hp-shows-off-vivienne-tam-designed-digital-clutch-the-10-inch/
<DanaG> hah.
<Ziroday> kwwii: you awake?
<dilomo> psyke83: hey man
 * DanaG wishes the NewWave theme were in deb format.
<DanaG> Oh, and I'd like to see a matching unlock dialog for each wallpaper, perhaps.  That'd be cool.
<DanaG> hmm, grey-on-grey... a bit gloomy.
<DanaG> windeco, that is.
 * DanaG sticks with his bright orange.
<dilomo> DanaG: do you know how to theme the main menu
<dilomo> separately then the rest of the menus?
<dilomo> btw there is deb
<DanaG> Nope, I don't know if it's even possible.
<dilomo> in the kwwii's PPA
<dilomo> about the lock dialog
<dilomo> what wallpaper do you have in mind
<DanaG> One for each of the wallpapers there.
<DanaG> For example, the "intense" one.
<DanaG> That way you could pair the GDM, the wallpaper, and the lock dialog.
<dilomo> I asked you because it's not so easy to do
<DanaG> Aah.
<dilomo> and most people want smth modern
<dilomo> for wallpaper
<dilomo> si I thought nobody is using these wallpapers but
<dilomo> indeed it is good for all them (gdm ld and bg) to match
<DanaG> Hot Wave Intense is pretty spiffy.
<DanaG> I just do think the grey titlebars are a bit gloomy.  For a while, I was using a dark blue-and-grey theme, and it actually adversely affected my mood.
<DanaG> Once I changed to the nice bright orange, my mood improved... literally instantly.
<DanaG> Like, BAM!
<dilomo> thats cool
<dilomo> I haven't thout in this direction so far
<DanaG> bug: set as wallpaper (from eye-of-gnome) doesn't work.  :(
<DanaG> That's an Ubuntu bug, not an art bug.
<DanaG> My theme: http://picpaste.com/screenshot-orange-nodoka-2.png
<dilomo> wow I'm so not used to light themes now that when I look at it
<dilomo> it's strange for me
<DanaG> Heh, did I show you this?  It's "oh god, too bright!"  :   http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/10/hp-shows-off-vivienne-tam-designed-digital-clutch-the-10-inch/
<DanaG> =Ã¾
<DanaG> My orange there is also a bit of a funky shade, too.  It's to match the bridge picture.
<dilomo> :) these ppl are crazy
<dilomo> that pink laptop is
<DanaG> The goggles! They do nothing!
<DanaG> =Ã¾
<dilomo> looking very bad IMO with that glossy screen
<DanaG> Another random, interesting theme: http://astyanax0.deviantart.com/art/Muku-1-0-33133875
<dilomo> hmm interesting
<DanaG> ... and the theme I currently use when in Windows:  http://www.wincustomize.com/zoom.aspx?skinid=6568&libid=1
<DanaG> Hmm, would it be possible to just 'tint' the grey of the window top, slightly?
<DanaG> Oh yeah, and I find slanty icons to be odd; I currently use Tangerine.
<DanaG> The OpenSUSE 11 Industrial icons work surprisingly well with this.
<dilomo> is that vista ? ;)
<dilomo> tint ?
<dilomo> explain
<DanaG> Oh yeah, that Molten theme (with the dragon) works in both XP and Vista.
<dilomo> you can change the colors you need in the gtkrc file
<dilomo> just search and replace "#696969" with your custom color and it should work
<dilomo> btw you will need to do that replace in the metacity-1.xml theme file too
<DanaG> Cool.  I'll have to try that tomorrow -- here's the time where I am:
<DanaG> Thu Sep 11 02:04:09 PDT 2008
<dilomo> where is that
<DanaG> PDT is Pacific Daylight Time.
<dilomo> her ist 12.04
<DanaG> Daylight Savings Time.... more like 'screw up your clock twice a year' time.
<dilomo> no I mena what city
<DanaG> San Luis Obispo, CA.
<dilomo> nice
<DanaG> CA state, that is.  (with international community, you can never assume.)
<dilomo> yeah I know that
<dilomo> :)
<dilomo> btw what is Washington DC ?
<dilomo> that DC?
<DanaG> Washington DC?  I can never keep that one straight.  Best just to use the full name.
<DanaG> I mean, whose bright idea was that.... Washington, and "Washington, DC"
<DanaG> ... =Ã¾
<DanaG> Anyway, /me goes off to bed.
<DanaG> heh, random thing: google for 802.11h, you get this as one thing:
<DanaG> 802.11 * Planck's constant = 5.3148354 Ã 10^-31 m2 kg / s
<DanaG> That's rather random.
<dilomo> ok
<dilomo> bey
<dilomo> bye
<_MMA_> D.C. = District of Columbia
 * _MMA_ used to live there.
<dilomo> hay _MMA_
<dilomo> do you know how to make the main menu to use different color that the rest of the menus?
<_MMA_> dilomo: The menu itself? What part?
<dilomo> well the menu not the menubar
<dilomo> the part with Games, Internet ...
<_MMA_> You can, but this will then effect Firefox. :(
<dilomo> but isn't that supposed to be different
<dilomo> style
<_MMA_> It will effect it in a bad way.
<_MMA_> ie:
<dilomo> ok
<Cimi> are you sure?
<_MMA_> About?
<Cimi> you can match the parent menubar widget
<Cimi> something like
<Cimi> *panel*GtkMenu
<dilomo> I'm trying with
<dilomo> widget_class "*Panel*MenuBar*Menu" style :highest "newwave-panelmenu"
<Cimi> you may try, i'm not sure though
<dilomo> but it doesn't work
<Cimi> install experience engine
<dilomo> first I remove the pixmap from the Main menu
<dilomo> with  "*Panel*MenuBar*"
<_MMA_> Last I was playing with it (a week ago) changing the mainmenu effected FF badly. Something to do with the text color.
<Cimi> it can be used to debug widgets
<_MMA_> Ill look later. I just got up and have things to do.
<dilomo> debug?
<dilomo> what do you mean
<Cimi> it prints the widget hierarchy
<Cimi> oh every widget you interact
<dilomo> that's really smth useful
<Cimi> yeah
<dilomo> btw is it possible to make the combobox menus with light bg
<dilomo> with proper matching?
<Cimi> connect to irc.gimp.org and ask benzea
<dilomo> ok
<dilomo> thanks
<Cimi> about the experience engine
<dilomo> what about it?
<dilomo> btw what channel is benzea in?
<Cimi> #gnome-art
<psyke83> hey
<dilomo> hay psyke83
<psyke83> last night I began organizing my Gmail account properly (filtering the messages from the ubuntu-art ML) and I noticed that Gmail categorizes many legitimate messages as spam... do the mail servers need to be added to a whitelist somewhere, perhaps?
<psyke83> *legitimate messages from the Ubuntu ML's (I saw no false positives for any other mail, personal or otherwise)
<dilomo> well I don't know
<dilomo> I use Evolution
<dilomo> and have now white lists
<psyke83> dilomo: re your PM on the forums, you need to set bg[NORMAL] in the "newwave-menu" section, that's all
<psyke83> the pixmap stuff seemed to interfere when I was testing it yesterday, though
<dilomo> I have some great news
<dilomo> about themeing
<dilomo> form gnome 2.24 we will be able to theme the main menu
<dilomo> separately then the rest of the menus
<dilomo> it will match by widget
<dilomo> and the name will be gnome-panel-main-menu
<psyke83> are you sure it's not possible already? widget_class "*Panel*GtkMenu*"
<psyke83> ok
<dilomo> I talked with benzea today and he commited a patch
<thorwil> kwwii: do you happen to know a commandline way of removing alpha layers from a batch of images?
<dilomo> nope I tried that
<dilomo> btw I've updated the repos
<dilomo> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-new-wave/anton/devel
<psyke83> well I assume it doesn't work, but you would probably need to set the priority to highest
<dilomo> if anyone's interested
<psyke83> *would have needed to
<dilomo> I tried all that stuff but in vain
<dilomo> btw I decided that I combo menus should be light
<dilomo> so that they are easy on the eyes
<dilomo> and made some matching to do that but it turns out that the old Option menus
<dilomo> are not reflecting the changes
<rsc__> what forums are we talking about here? :)
<dilomo> gnome-art
<rsc__> where is that?
<dilomo> on irc.gimp.org
 * kwwii is off for the evening
 * DanaG likes the Nodoka engine still better than many others...... even with Ã¼ber-bright colors, it still looks soft and 'gentle' (hence the name).
<psyke83> DanaG: ah but you're judging the whole engine by a single gtkrc theme :). I think Andrea also has Nodoka widget emulation in the Murrine engine (though it's not complete in Intrepid's SVN snapshot)
<DanaG> Some time I'll post my theme somewhere, and then perhaps somebody can help me port it to that.
<DanaG> I don't want to lose the rounded scrollbars, though -- I like them too much.
<CimiDS> lol
<CimiDS> it is an ugly hack
<CimiDS> they will NEVER go inside murrine
<psyke83> DanaG: the nodoka and murrine engines will be available in Intrepid - you could make a hybrid theme, pick & choose the widgets you like from each engine
<DanaG> Ugly hack?  Can't say I've seen the code to know how hackish it is.
<DanaG> re-link to thing I've posted before: http://picpaste.com/screenshot-orange-nodoka-2.png
<psyke83> looking at that theme, I would change all the widgets to murrine, except the check/radiobuttons and frames
<DanaG> ... and scrollbars.
<DanaG> I want non-glossy, specifically.
<psyke83> for you, not me :)
<DanaG> Slider things are fugly, though -- I'll admit that.
<psyke83> it's easy to do in the gtkrc, just make an empty subdefinition of the murrine engine within the style definitions that you want to change
<psyke83> or vice-versa
<DanaG> Hmm, right now my gtkrc uses Nodoka, obviously; would I be able to just change the engine it specifies?
<psyke83> take a look at the Human(-Murrine) gtkrc to see all the new Murrine engine options, it's a lot more flexible than the previous release
<psyke83> one sec
<DanaG> Oh yeah, and the Tropic windeco hasn't been fixed like the Human one supposedly has.
<DanaG> My windeco is Tropic without the red button.
<psyke83> I'm on windows atm, can you paste your gtkrc to a pastebin? Then I'll edit it to show you how you can specify different engines
<DanaG> Sure.
<DanaG> !pastebin
<ubottu> pastebin is a service to post multiple-lined texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu.com (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic)
<DanaG> The color is a slight override of my own theme:  http://pastebin.com/f33bf9fd9  -- the index.theme for the color-match-to-bridge one
<DanaG> gtkrc: http://pastebin.com/ffaeda72
<psyke83> DanaG: let's imagine you only want to change the scrollbar in your theme to use murrine: http://pastebin.com/m2e1db132 (just an excerpt)
<psyke83> conversely, if you want to have a theme that uses murrine for the majority of its widgets, you'd replace the engine subsection in "fedora-default" with murrine, and of course, use murrine's engine options instead: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2008-June/006567.html
<psyke83> it's better to look at the Human gtkrc from Intrepid, but that post as a copy of the new engine options
<psyke83> *has
<DanaG> Hmm, would I copy the options from the Nodoka default definition into the override section for those components?
<DanaG> stepper style.... what's a "stepper"?  Is that the spinbutton?
<psyke83> you mean, if you wanted a theme using murrine for the majority of widgets? Yes, you'd need to put the engine options into those sections
<DanaG> YEah.  I'd intend to use Murrine for everything that can match the current appearance; I'd use an override for things that won't match well with Murrine.
<psyke83> it's the "direction arrow" part of the scrollbar
<DanaG> Aah.
<psyke83> I haven't tested the latest murrine snapshot, but the stepper styles didn't seem to be complete
<psyke83> *for the older snapshot
<psyke83> you will need to define engine options in each section, but it's not as bad as you would imagine. For example, the animation option is only relevent to the "*-progressbar" style, and the others are obvious
<DanaG> Cool.
<DanaG> Well, that gives me something useful to work on for today.
<DanaG> s/for //
<psyke83> Cimi_: have you improved the Nodoka widget emulation lately?
<psyke83> I mean, do you intend to allow the engine to look identical to Nodoka when using "style = NODOKA", or is it only about the gradients?
<Cimi_> which widget actually differs?
<psyke83> the frame rounding, the steppers, the listview header divisions, the checkmarks and radiobuttons, and maybe other stuff
<psyke83> I didn't get a chance to test the latest SVN release, still stuck with the older release in Intrepid. I was just curious if you intend to make it emulate everything "as exactly as possible"
<LaserJock> greetings, does anybody know how I can get my hands on the icons that are on the Ubuntu wiki and website?
<_MMA_> Got a link to whatcha need?
<_MMA_> LaserJock: To the images?
<LaserJock> _MMA_: well, I'm trying to work on Edubuntu's website
<LaserJock> and I'd like to get icon images that are consistent with the rest of Ubuntu
<_MMA_> "icons that are on the Ubuntu wiki and website?" Is just kinda vague. :)
<LaserJock> _MMA_: sorry ;-)
<_MMA_> Since I can link to many icons/sets/what have you. :)
<LaserJock> I'm trying to make an equivalent of http://www.ubuntu.com/community/
<LaserJock> so the globe and "Hi!" images
<LaserJock> is there a set of those somewhere?
<_MMA_> I would just rip those images. Some might be from Tango. Some look custom.
<LaserJock> right, I just need *additional* images so I was wondering if there was maybe a fuller set to choose from
<tretle> Cimi_ http://www.cimitan.com/blog/2008/04/01/flat-menubars-and-toolbars-for-murrine-rgba-ugly-hack-d/ when you talk about the menubar are you talking about the menubar ion gnome-panel?
<_MMA_> "Hi!" looks custom. The globe "looks" Tango-ish but I dont think is the one used in the set.
<_MMA_> s/"looks"/*looks*
<LaserJock> _MMA_: if I just install tang-icon-theme-* would that get me close?
<LaserJock> *tango
<_MMA_> Yup
<_MMA_> LaserJock: Something also to look at: http://tango.freedesktop.org/Tango_Icon_Library
<LaserJock> doh, I was there last night
 * LaserJock needs to learn how to scroll
<_MMA_> :P
<_MMA_> LaserJock: In any case, I don't know where the sources are. I *think* Matthew Nussem maintains the website?
<_MMA_> (my spelling could be off)
<LaserJock> it is, but I know who you mean :-)
<_MMA_> k
<DanaG> /usr/share/themes/Orange Mix/gtk-2.0/gtkrc:78: error: unexpected identifier `stripes', expected character `}'
<DanaG> argh.
<DanaG> aah, not valid for murrine.
<DanaG> Hmm, buttons are about the same... but somehow look a bit glossier.
<DanaG> Woah, if you set roundness really high, to like 1000, you get really funky results.
<DanaG> =Ã¾
<CimiDS> DanaG, yeah, but i don't expect people to do those things
<DanaG> It falls under "violating preconditions".
<DanaG> Hence the '=Ã¾'
<DanaG> Give crazy input, get undefined output; that's to be expected.
<CimiDS> it can be fixed easily, but it requires a lot oh new lines
<DanaG> Don't bother; I think it's amusing.
<DanaG> My comment was more of an "oh hey, that's funny" thing, rather than a "oh hey, this is broken" thing.
<CimiDS> clearlooks has that fix, using radius = 1000.0 shpulg give better results
<CimiDS> should
<DanaG> You could also just put a warning:  "WARNING: Using roundness over <threshold> may give very odd results."
<DanaG> ... though that could be annoying if somebody does it deliberately.
<DanaG> "     You can't implement those scrollbars without hacks, and I really don't want hacks in my code" -- hmm, what kind of hacks?
 * DanaG wishes Stardock would make stuff for Linux... but then it'd have to be open-sourced.
<CimiDS> DanaG, i'm quite sure that thecode for the concave steppers is in the scrollbar_slider
<DanaG> That _is_ funky, you're right.
<CimiDS> maybe tne drawing is splitted
<DanaG> Oh yeah, the focus thing is another one: http://www.cimitan.com/murrine/mockups/gallery  -- the "say no to ugly dotted"
<CimiDS> they draw the steppers
<CimiDS> then the rounded part is drawnin the slider
<CimiDS> i agree with the focus
<DanaG> Oh yeah, behavior when clicking the rounded part of the scrollbar is also hard to define.
<DanaG> Hmm, I guess I could live with square scrollbars, as long as the styling is right -- but for now, having the _outer_ part of the stepper be rounded, looks odd.
<DanaG> Currently, when using Nodoka in OpenOffice, it somehow gets square scrollbars, and still looks fine to me.
<DanaG> But the focus thing gets me, for now.
 * DanaG wonders what sort of theme will stylistically fit with this brushed-metal laptop:  http://blog.laptopmag.com/hp-debuts-elitebook-adds-10-notebooks-to-business-lineup    http://www.slashgear.com/hp-elitebook-6930p-boasts-up-to-24hr-battery-life-0815536.php#more-15536
<DanaG> Tabs are also a bit different between the two engines.
<DanaG> http://www.geocities.com/samuelgoh21/DDWRT_BASIC_repeater.jpg
<DanaG> Oh hey, the dd-wrt firmware has a theme that that New Wave could take some ideas from.
<DanaG> http://codefromthe70s.org/images/dummynet_ddwrt.png
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-09-12
<CimiDS> kwwii, better tab highlighting in revision 60
<CimiDS> _MMA_, too
<DanaG> Oh yeah, another random reference to look at for the newwave:
<DanaG> http://stardockdesign.wincustomize.com/skins.aspx?skinid=6287&libid=1
<DanaG> Solarion theme.
 * DanaG forgot whose theme that New Wave is
<CimiDS> kwwii, ping
<DanaG> Oh yeah, try the Nodoka engine some time in OpenOffice, and take a look at how the scrollbars there look -- it's essentially a squared version of the round thing.  Any chance you could replicate that, at least?
<DanaG> If you got that and the focus thing (as well as the progress bar, which doesn't quite match), it'd be perfect.
<DanaG> Rounded scrollbars are a small thing to sacrifice in exchange for cool things like RGBA.
<CimiDS> progress bar? what's wrong?
<kwwii> CimiDS: pong
<CimiDS> upgrade to r61
<DanaG> Oh yeah, progress bar... perhaps I'm misremembering.
<DanaG> Oh yeah, I think it did look the same.
<DanaG> Never mind.
<Cimi> ATTENTION: since murrine r64 "style" option was renames to "profile"
<_MMA_> Cimi: Thats going to break *alot* of themes. Unless you've added some kinds legacy support.
<_MMA_> *kinda
<Cimi> you are using svn, svn can break API
<Starks> canonical is being too secretive about their in-house theme team
<Cimi> there's legacy support for stable API
<_MMA_> Cimi: Regardless of what *Im* using, once released, its going to break alot of themes.
<_MMA_> Ok. Good.
<Cimi> no :)
<andreasn> Starks: I didn't know there was one
<Starks> intrepid's theme will be in-house
<Cimi> style is an optionintroduced in the svn
<Cimi> so i shouldn't worry about breaking themes
<Cimi> isn't it? :)
<_MMA_> Cimi: Ok. Im mistaken then. I was thinking about something else.
<_MMA_> andreasn: Don't feed the trolls that come into a room, spout crap about things they don't have the facts.
<Starks> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=916316
<andreasn> _MMA_: oh, sorry. I just never heard of a inhouse team
<andreasn> oh, that sounds like a hen out of a feather (or whatever it's called)
<_MMA_> andreasn: There is a new art director. Is supposed to plan for the future. Coordinated branding/look&feel across Ubuntu.
<andreasn> _MMA_: cool
<andreasn> hope things turn out good then
<_MMA_> andreasn: What's your idea of "good"? :)
<andreasn> nothing special really, but better than now I would hope
<_MMA_> What's your idea of "better"? :)
<_MMA_> Really. It's all crap opinion. :)
 * _MMA_ thinks "good" is everything on my desktop is some shade of chocolate. :P
<andreasn> I would be very surprised if we're now at the point of the ultimate look & feel of the free desktop
<_MMA_> Which you think would be? :)
<andreasn> that I do not now?
<_MMA_> ?
<_MMA_> You mean: "That, I do not know." ?
<andreasn> ah, yes
<_MMA_> np
<andreasn> I started taking a English class last night, we learned periods and commas, but apparently I wasn't paying enough attention :)
<_MMA_> :)
<_MMA_> Your English is better than Cimi's. :P
<andreasn> but it's really interesting, because English use commas a _lot_ more than Swedish
<_MMA_> I'm also sorry. I'm just trying to cut through all the generic opinion as of late. I read so much opinion that lacks substance. It's always, "I don't know what I like. I just know I don't like that.". That has been the issue with Mark around here for instance.
<andreasn> the Swedish grammar rule is something like "use a comma when you need to breathe"
<_MMA_> So now, I hope to move away from being held to his whim.
<_MMA_> Unless artists *want* to.
<_MMA_> andreasn: Yeah. English is only /kinda/ like that.
 * thorwil is unsure about about commas in english
<andreasn> oh, well, I certainly have some ideas of where I would personally like to improve GNOME in terms of less noise, less cuteness, proper use of layout, consistency etc
<andreasn> but don
<andreasn> but I don't tend to do stuff at the Ubuntu level, but at the GNOME level
<andreasn> I just hang out in here :)
<andreasn> but yeah, I can understand your frustration
<_MMA_> andreasn: Sure. I know why you're in here. I wouldn't give shit about Ubuntu. :) I do plan to shake things up around our little corner of the interweb.
<thorwil> _MMA_: "So now, I hope to move away from being held to his whim." - fits nicely to the text i'm drafting where i explain that mark cannot be the target audience / is not likely to represent a worthwhile target audience
<_MMA_> thorwil: Thing is. I'm not sure *we* have to define one. My thought atm, is to let people create things that feel ubuntu and put them in a package based on popularity and technical, um, capibility. The work well. No bugs.
<_MMA_> Don't know how to say that right atm.
<thorwil> _MMA_: we all always work with at least some assumptions about the audience. even if we just exclude children and grannies. can only help to have it written down
<thorwil> _MMA_: but i'm far less adamant about that than troy :)
<_MMA_> :)
<_MMA_> Here's the thing though.
<_MMA_> If we're not aiming for default, Why should we be restricted to audience?
<thorwil> to have guidance and internal consistence
<thorwil> to choose the right words for our message
<thorwil> to me, there is not much place for a difference between aiming for default and aiming to be damn good ;)
<_MMA_> Why do we need a message? :) *Some* guidance can be restrictive and what "internal consistence"?
<_MMA_> To me, let the artist decide their audience.
<_MMA_> This is all very open still.
<thorwil> _MMA_: if you go all artsy doing-what-feels-right, you're right back on the i-like-this or i like that level
<_MMA_> And that can be fine. If someone creates a good theme, that feels Ubuntu as far as color cues, why can't it be used?
<_MMA_> Hell. Someone's vision of Ubuntu could be green. Should we exclude it?
<thorwil> it could and no
<_MMA_> Questions I still haven't answered for myself.
<_MMA_> It will need some debate.
<thorwil> you can't be all free for everything _and_ get away from everyone being a lone art warrior
<thorwil> but i'm no control freak. i want a stem of order and there can be chaos all around it
<_MMA_> Sure. But I think we'll need to find a balance that feels right for us. So far, I'm just dealing with the technicals.
<_MMA_> I'll get places for people to put their pink Ubuntu theme if the rest of our ML or whatever wants it in. :P
<_MMA_> s/places/packages
<_MMA_> Meeting in 1 hour. Either here or in #ubuntu-meeting.
<_MMA_> kwwii: Where's the meeting?
<thorwil> from Ken's mail: "A meeting is now scheduled for Friday at 19:00 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting."
<_MMA_> ahh..
<kwwii> it is probably not on the fridge because I am too lazy
<_MMA_> :P
<Starks> new wave bzr FTW
<Starks> gtk, metacity, compiz, emerald, xfce, wallpaper, gdm, list, lock, and usplash
<Cimi> you'll get tired of those themes with the dark osX menubar
<_MMA_> chicken, motorboat, ice cream, paper mill, flu and santa
<thorwil> all lies!
<dilomo> well not agree
<dilomo> only the usplah is not ready yet
<_MMA_> WTF was there to agree or disagree on? :)
<dilomo> (21,22,59) thorwil: all lies!
<thorwil> dilomo: chicken, really?
<dilomo> chicken?
<_MMA_> hahahahahahah
<_MMA_> I'm so lost. :)
<thorwil> dilomo: look one line above mine
<dilomo> oooh yaah
<dilomo> it's all clear now
<dilomo> :)
<_MMA_> :P
<thorwil> d:
<_MMA_> Im a retarded for wanting to do this? http://gizmodo.com/5049073/homemade-human-catapult-provides-not+quite+safe-fun
<thorwil> no, retarded is not the word
<dilomo> woow
<_MMA_> Yeah, "awesome" is the word. :)
<dilomo> that looks cool
<_MMA_> Alternative KDE main menu: http://lancelot.fomentgroup.org/screenshots
<dilomo> nice
<_MMA_> Meeting in 20 mins.
<thorwil> #ubuntu-meeting is so scary, everyone can see us there 0.0
<_MMA_> thorwil: Just imaging everyone in their underwear. :)
 * thorwil freaks out
<_MMA_> *imagine
 * _MMA_ pulls up agenda email.
<dilomo> but I cannot join
<dilomo> there's nobody in the chat rooom
<thorwil> you misspelled it
<dilomo> what
<dilomo> ooh
<dilomo> room*
<thorwil> dilomo: /j #ubuntu-meeting
<dilomo>  /j #ubuntu-meeting
<_MMA_> dilomo: Or, don't paste in the room name. Pidgin does some crazy things with pasting to stop spamming.
<zniavre>  /j #ubuntu-meeting
<_MMA_> Type: /join #ubuntu-meeting
<thorwil> oh boy
<thorwil> it's very important to not have anything in front of the /
<_MMA_> :P
<dilomo> ok
<dilomo> I'm in
<dilomo> thanks guys
<dilomo> its fill max
<thorwil> fill max?
<dilomo> full*
<Ken_V> Ello Ello
<thorwil> Ken_V: -> ubuntu-meeting
<Ken_V> KK
<thorwil> Ken_V, dilomo: http://thorwil.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/ibex_horns_22_4to3.jpg
<thorwil> it will not see much more refinement
<dilomo> it's good and should be include IMHO
<thorwil> well, i'm glad you like it :)
<dilomo> :)
<_MMA_> thorwil: Yeah. This should go in kwwii's package.
<_MMA_> boo
<dilomo> :)
<_MMA_> Ill be around for another hour or so.
 * _MMA_ turns on a movie.
<bcurtiswx> hi all, i have a question if anyone is around
 * bcurtiswx pokes room
<bcurtiswx> wow... a ghost channel
<_MMA_> !ask
<ubottu> Please don't ask to ask a question, ask the question (all on ONE line, so others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely answer. :-)
<bcurtiswx> haha.. ok
<bcurtiswx> bug 269226 i have confirmed, but i know its not a firefox issue but a font issue
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 269226 in firefox-3.0 "Web page font rendering issues (palatino font)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/269226
<bcurtiswx> i need advice on what package I need to assign to this bug so it can be triaged
<bcurtiswx> noone in the bugs channel knows
<_MMA_> bcurtiswx: Hmm... #ubuntu-devel will be able to tell you.
<bcurtiswx> ok
<bcurtiswx> thanks, _MMA_
<_MMA_> np. For a D.C. guy. ;)
<bcurtiswx> where u from?
<_MMA_> P.G County/D.C. originally. Now I'm In Raleigh.
<bcurtiswx> Ah, i'm a Grad Student at George Mason
<_MMA_> Cool
<bcurtiswx> originally from Rochester, NY
 * _MMA_ likes upstate. Misses snow.
<bcurtiswx> Me too, went to SUNY Oswego, snowbelt .. every winter at least 1 4-5 foot snowstorm
<_MMA_> Friends from upstate would laugh at a "blizzard in D.C" whenever the news said that.
<bcurtiswx> yeah, i do
<bcurtiswx> got like an inch.. people lost their driving skills.  was the worst time on the roads i've ever had
<_MMA_> Oh well. I still miss D.C. and whatever snow it does get. The Mall looks great when it shows.
<bcurtiswx> yeah, i plan on taking a metro trip there if it snows
<bcurtiswx> i hear theres an ice rink at the sculpture garden?
<_MMA_> http://www.flickr.com/photos/metalmusicaddict/2087574914/sizes/m/in/set-72157603377813769/
<bcurtiswx> cute kid!
<_MMA_> bcurtiswx: Hmm... Might be portable. SOmething they put up in windet.
<_MMA_> gah
<_MMA_> *winter
<_MMA_> 2 years ago but yeah. He's cute. ;)
<Cimi> kwwii, poke me when you'll submit something, I'm interested
<kwwii> Cimi: not ready to submit anything yet
<kwwii> but if you want to see the work in progress, it is at http://sinecera.de/progress.png
<DanaG> Hmm, interesting... what's that?
<kwwii> just an idea
<DanaG> argh, line on Murrine tabs is thicker than I like... and the scrollbars are 'funky' (due to ill-fitting rounded outer corners).
<DanaG> Though the focus thing is a bigger deal to me.
<DanaG> Hackish as it is, I still like rounded, though.
<DanaG> Is there no way to draw it non-hackishly?
<DanaG> I don't know enough about GTK to do anything with it.
<kwwii> I should just learn to write an engine myself
<kwwii> and in a year or so I could write something myself and have it look like crap but only blame myself
<DanaG> Murrine just doesn't "feel" the same.
<DanaG> Oh yeah, I know why: the scrollbar shading is different, too.
<DanaG> And progress bars are drastically different.
<DanaG> Interesting... shading on disabled controls is also different.
<DanaG> Aah, Compiz zoom is handy for comparing these things.
<DanaG> Another handy thing: open one twf with one theme or gtk, and another with a different one.  Overlay the two, and fade one in and out.
<DanaG> Murrine has much "harder" edges and gradients.
<Cimi1> DanaG: decrease constrast
<DanaG> Aah, should I just post my metatheme somewhere?
<Cimi1> no
<Cimi1> just add contrast = 0.7 or what you like
<DanaG> The Nodoka one didn't have a defined contrast.
<Cimi1> remember to use the latest snapshot
<Cimi1> nodoka is ugly
<Cimi1> gh
<DanaG> I like it... it's soft even with bright colors.
<Cimi1> nodoka is murrine with some static options
<DanaG> Ugh, Contrast... doesn't do it.
<Cimi1> if you're running latest svn
<DanaG> It does weird things.
<Cimi1> add
<DanaG> I'll check if I'm using svn.
<Cimi1> profile = NODOKA
<DanaG> "profile" rather than "style"?
<Cimi1> contrast = 0.8
<Cimi1> yeah, I've changed it today
<DanaG> Oh, I don't have the SVN anywhere... I mean, I need to make an initial 'get' (or whatever it's called).
<Cimi1> svn co http://svn.gnome.org/svn/murrine/trunk murrine && cd murrine && sudo apt-get install build-essentials libgtk2.0-dev --yes && ./autogen.sh --prefix=/usr && sudo make install
<Cimi1> it will work
<Cimi1> kwwii: mockups!
<DanaG> Are there also styling changes in the svn?
<DanaG> I noticed that the borders on things such as combo boxes are much 'harder' on murrine.
<DanaG> On Nodoka, they match the border around the button -- it uses that 'darkness' all the way around.  The Murrine one has the textbox part more darkly bordered.
<DanaG> Aah, there are also differences in shading on disabled buttons.
<DanaG> and same with slider controls.
<DanaG> I wish Fedora had submitted patches, instead of forking
<DanaG> .
<DanaG> Grr... Fedora.
<DanaG> ... speaking of which, here's a leopard wearing one:  http://www.skinit.com/skins/graphic_designs/bigcats
<DanaG> =Ã¾
<Cimi1> DanaG: I don't like nodoka
<Cimi1> also, as said, this is a matter of contrast
<Cimi1> just decrease the contrast of the entry and you'll have exactly the same color
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-09-13
<DanaG> Contrast of the entry?
<Cimi1> gtkentry
<DanaG> aah.
<DanaG> What about the shading on inactive buttons?  Would I actually have to look in the Murrine code to fix that?
<Cimi1> what's wrong with the shading?
<DanaG> It doesn't match.
<Cimi1> well
<Cimi1> use nodoka :)
<DanaG> I have two parallel versions of gtkrc (one with Nodoka, one with Murrine).  If I start one instance of 'twf' with each one, and then overlay them and fade back and forth, it becomes more obvious.
<DanaG> No ARGB.  :(
<Cimi1> use nodoka!
 * DanaG hugs Nodoka
<Cimi1>  I dislike nodoka and I won't add anything in my code to make murrine look similar to it
<DanaG> Why have a half-matching one at all, then?
<DanaG> That's what I don't get.... you have the style that tries to match, but doesn't do a complete job.
<Cimi1> I will remove the profile, then
<Cimi1> it is so damn ugly in my opinion that it doesn't worth an inclusion
<DanaG> Hmm.  I wouldn't say the engine itself is ugly, but Fedora's gtkrc that uses it definitely IS ugly to me.
<DanaG> Same with their windeco -- their tweaked version is ugly; the older version looked a bit better -- but still, it only looks good in blue.
<DanaG> I'm using the Tropic windeco, with the 'close' button not red.
<Cimi1> try this if you want something smooth
<Cimi1> http://www.cimitan.com/murrine/node/129
<DanaG> Smooth and non-glossy, is what it's about for me.
<DanaG> That looks pretty good; I'd just want to tweak the colors.
<DanaG> Oh, and no widgetfactory in the screenshot.  :Ã¾
<DanaG> Or heck, maybe I'd even use that color theme.
<DanaG> I just think it a bit odd having a glossy theme on a non-glossy LCD, sometimes.
<DanaG> The "Freezy" ones are pretty nice!
<Cimi1> use what you want
<Cimi1> murrine is do powerful that lets the user to achieve infinite looks
<Cimi1> they are unique, while they are still written with the same engine!
<DanaG> How would I un-round the outer corners of the scrollbars?
<DanaG> If I have non-rounded inside... I find it odd having rounded outside.
<Cimi1> check out the scrollbar widget in the gtkrc
<Cimi1> add
<Cimi1> engine "murrine" { roundness = 0 }
<DanaG> Ooh, there's a debian dir... so I can dpkg-buildpkg.
<DanaG> Cool.  That rocks.
<DanaG> "rocks" about the debian dir.
<Cimi1> the guy who did those themes "freezy" etc etc
<stemount^> evening
<Cimi1> was engaged to do a collection of murrine themes
<Cimi1> launchpad.net/murrine-themes
<Cimi1> he will publish something in the next week
<DanaG> Oh yeah, his may need the style->profile fix.
<Cimi1> yes
<DanaG> It might be good to put a warning instead of erroring out: look for 'style' and warn that it should be changed to 'profile'.
<Cimi1> no
<DanaG>  twf
<DanaG> /usr/share/themes/Caramello/gtk-2.0/gtkrc:88: error: unexpected identifier `style', expected character `}'
<Cimi1> because
<Cimi1> svn is not meant to be stable
<Cimi1> so I can break api
<DanaG> Oh, then people won't fix their themes, also.
<DanaG> =Ã¾
<Cimi1> it's not my problem
<Cimi1> they should not make themes against a development version
<Cimi1> the legacy support is granted
<Cimi1> try adding squaredstyle = 1
<DanaG> Cool; instead, let the svn users fix their own themes.
<Cimi1> you'll receive a message
<Cimi1> no
<DanaG> I mean, install a theme that's for non-svn, and tweak it on their own machine once they install it.
<Cimi1> I don't want to enlarge my code just because people are making themes for an unstable version
<DanaG> What does it say on squaredstyle?
<kwwii> the good thing is that I won't update between releases if it breaks things and they don't get fixed :-
<kwwii> )
<Cimi1> kwwii: it is perfectly compatible with 0.53.1
<Cimi1> which is stable
<Cimi1> I haven't break the api
<DanaG> eep, still glossy.
<Cimi1> api = "options"
<DanaG> Is there a way to make the thing look not glossy?
<Cimi1> DanaG: use gradient_shades
<Cimi1> and reduce highlight_ratio
<DanaG> Hmm, I wonder... if I dig around in the nodoka source, perhaps I can find gradient shades.
<DanaG> the engine source, that is.
<Cimi1> no
<Cimi1> gradient_shades is an exclusive of murrine
<DanaG> It wouldn't be in the murrine format, of course -- probably more like a bit of math somewhere.
 * Cimi1 is still wondering why are using murrine if you like nodoka
<DanaG> ... good point there.
<DanaG> For ARGB?  I don't know which apps use it, anyway.
<Cimi1> kwwii: are you using style in your themes? No, so an upgrade won't break your themes
<Cimi1> DanaG: actually RGBA is not ready for desktop porpouse
<Cimi1> kwwii: I have renamed style to profile because those options were some option profiles
<kwwii> Cimi1: dude, you need to write some kind of documentation
<kwwii> please, I would pay you 50Euros
<Cimi1> gh
<Cimi1> kwwii: it is mark that should pay me, not you
<Cimi1> and if I have the time, I would prefer to code for the engine rather than the documentation
<DanaG> Oh yeah, have I shown you that 'fox in teahouse' wallpaper xml thingy?
<rsc_> hey guys.
<rsc_> when developing a gtk/metacity theme between 2 people, what would be a good version control solution?
 * Cimi1 hides
<rsc_> hah :)
<kwwii> Cimi1: honestly, I would pay for it
<kwwii> and I bet you could get more people to pay a little bit
<Cimi1> kwwii: I could write something after 26th
<DanaG> heh, random thing: google for 802.11h, you get this:
<DanaG> 802.11 * Planck's constant = 5.3148354 Ã 10^-31 m2 kg / s  (google result for 802.11h)
 * kwwii thinks you google too much
<kwwii> Cimi1: hehe, I could use something next week :-)
<Cimi1> kwwii: do you want me to add the fix got the entry in firefox?
<Cimi1> there's an engine part, and a firefox patch required
<kwwii> Cimi1: you mean the patch for the firefox menu text color?
<Cimi1> no
<Cimi1> I mean to get rid of the squared corners od the entry
<kwwii> oh that would be cool
<kwwii> what all does it require?
<Cimi1> but you need to patch firefox
<Cimi1> and a patch to murrine (which I can add)
<DanaG> Oh yeah, you said: " try adding squaredstyle = 1" -- what does it do?
<Cimi1> and one small line in the gtkrc
<kwwii> in which way do you have to patch firefox?
<Cimi1> DanaG: was to show you that retrocompatibility is granted
<kwwii> I could pass it on to asac with the request that he look at the patch
<Cimi1> kwwii: the patch is already in 3.1 trunk, but I guess it could be backported
<kwwii> in any case it would be a decision from asac and not from myself
<Cimi1> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=546839
<kwwii> but I can talk to him about it
<ubottu> Gnome bug 546839 in general "Add special case for transparent entries (for gecko and others)" [Minor,Resolved: fixed]
<DanaG>  selected_bg_color:#f9f995950101  in my index.theme........ why so many digits?
<kwwii> is it a patch to gnome or to firefox?
<Cimi1> kwwii: ff
<kwwii> DanaG: more digits = prettier
<kwwii> Cimi1: have you talked to asac about it before?
<kwwii> s/before/already
<Cimi1> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=332569
<Cimi1> no
<Cimi1> I'm not an ubuntu dev :)
<Cimi1> I've just noticed you
<kwwii> remind me of this if I forget, I will ping him
<kwwii> he is gone on the weekend
<Cimi1> ok
<Cimi1> I will add the modification to murrine then
<kwwii> dude, I have no idea if this will get through or not
<kwwii> :-)
<Cimi1> then means
<Cimi1> "if it will be patched"
<kwwii> I am not the most important person when it comes to development decisions
<kwwii> anyway, I am going to bed now...see you soon
<thorwil> _MMA_: i just noticed that the plates in the breathe template or not on integer pixel coordinates
<CimiDS> Hello!
<_MMA_> thorwil: Sorry. I'm unsure how that effects things. I already have a working script that looks to create the icons fine (not in main branch yet_. Feel free to tinker if you like. You want me to add you to the team now?
<thorwil> _MMA_: adding to team can wait, as i play with the thought of dropping all work related to ubuntu too often, lately
<_MMA_> o, k.
<thorwil> _MMA_: the plate rects being out of the pixel grid is no problem when exporting, as they define the new grid. but it is much harder to align things this way, as the coords are almost useless
<_MMA_> thorwil: Ok. I'll look at that. I never use 'em myself.
<_MMA_> I don't mean to be short but I gotta run. Saturday morning and I gotta do some things with the family. Leave any notes you like. I'll read back later.
<thorwil> well, have fun!
<_MMA_> :)
 * _MMA_ waves at Conn
<artir> !
<PRGUY85> hey do you guys know if the userinterface freeze will bring about the new theme for intrepid? or do we have to wait for intrepid+1
<dashua> Great work on Dust 09132008.  Looking great w/ latest murrine snapshot.  Just had to change a few "style" to "profile" in thr gtkrc
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-09-14
<Cimi> kwwii, mockups!
<DanaG> When you say that like that... is it an announcement of new mockups, or a request, or what?
<DanaG> er, time for me to go to bed.
<DanaG> Sun Sep 14 03:34:57 PDT 2008
<Cimi> DanaG, kwwii promised me he would have submitted new mockups
<DanaG> Aah.
<PRGUY85> hey what do you all think should be done with the New wave metacity, if anything?
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-09-07
<Cimi> omg, dust on unr? who is the man behind that decision?
<rsc___> unr?
<rsc___> where is that?
<kwwii> good morning
<SiDi> heya kwwii
<SiDi> mac_v: i think you _seriously_ should stop posting about that issue on ayatana
<SiDi> at best your last email is insultive towards celeste
<mac_v> tries to ignore SiDi
<SiDi> and she is an expert because she has A LOT of background in UI design (she's the person with most experience on that field that i know) and because she leads the most serious usability project of the floss world
<mac_v> SiDi: that doesnt mean others views should be discouraged
<SiDi> She absolutely never said that
<mac_v> SiDi: my reply was to scott!
<SiDi> yes, but who does it aim ?
<SiDi> scott doesnt consider himself an expert
<mac_v> SiDi: it is aimed at no one
<mac_v> SiDi: stop talking things out of context ;p , i said it in general!
<SiDi> he just pointed out that you'd had quite rude words towards a person that is much more likely to point to actual problems than you and me, and whose opinion should be considered. He didnt say only hers had to be considered, just that she shouldnt be ignored
<SiDi> mac_v: i know, but it definately looks aimed at _her_
<SiDi> which i dont believe is what you wanted
<SiDi> but you have serious communication problems, mac_v :p
 * mac_v tires to gag SiDi
<mac_v> SiDi: you have problems understanding!
<SiDi> (when scott says " I think questions from people like Celeste would rate even higher than > ones for implementers." he is right btw :p)
<mac_v> SiDi: read carefully , i mention everyone must be equal , several times
<SiDi> (she's more likely than anyone else to point out to flaws that need to be addressed. Which doesnt mean only her can)
<mac_v> he is wrong!
<SiDi> no, he's not
<mac_v> SiDi: the idea is the main , not the person
<mac_v> SiDi: even a dumbass can at times give good ideas!
<SiDi> celeste doesnt call herself an expert for the sake of any diploma, but because she has an awesome background in the matter. I had HMI courses and i dont call myself an expert :p
<SiDi> Yes, mac_v AT TIMES
<SiDi> she doesnt give good ideas AT TIMES :)
<mac_v> yes myself
<SiDi> She does it almost systematically
 * mac_v ignores SiDi 
 * mac_v doesnt want to argue
<kwwii> actually, celeste does have a degree (she is working on her doctorate currently, iirc) and does this stuff full time for money ;)
<mac_v> kwwii: the problem is , Celeste did not take anything wrong with my comments! it was Scott who seems it in wrong vein! :(
<mac_v> ti take it*
<mac_v> kwwii: she replied off the ML :( , i told Sidi this too! but :(
<kwwii> yeah, mailing list arguments can get freaky
<kwwii> and scott is easy to piss off, it seems
<mac_v> kwwii: why is Bug #405426 , left as "in progress" , this has been fixed right?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 405426 in human-gtk-theme "Remove application icons from title bars" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/405426
<mac_v> or is it still in testing?
<kwwii> mac_v: I did the work, not sure if it has made it into karmic or not
<kwwii> mac_v: essentially, I was waiting for David or someone to make a decision
<mac_v> kwwii: oh , it made its way into karmic , didnt you notice the complaints ;p
<kwwii> mac_v: lol, nope...lucky me
<kwwii> mac_v: just talking to mpt, he showed me the icon you made for the app store
<kwwii> pretty good stuff, mind if I work on that idea bit further?
<mac_v> sure no probs
<mac_v> kwwii: i just couldnt fit more of the apps in the paperbag... :/
<mac_v> so was thinking of making use of a basket
<kwwii> mac_v: yeah, and right now the most important one is the icon for the menu, which is tiny
<mac_v> kwwii: just a wacky idea ;) , how about a building similar to the Canonical headquarters? with an Ubuntu logo?
<mac_v> doesnt have to be recognizable to all , but only a few would know ;p
<mac_v> hehe , we could just say its a departmental store ;p
<kwwii> hehe, unfortunately we only have the 27th floor in this building :p
<mac_v> sshh!  no one knows that ;p
 * kwwii goes down 27 floors to have a smoke :/
<zniavre> haha
<zniavre> ooops sorry (but good for your health if you don't use lift)
<kwwii> better yet if you go all the way down and *then* realize you forget your passcard to get back in ;)
<mac_v> kwwii: has mat gone on vacation?
<mac_v> what happened to Boot ?
<kwwii> mac_v: yes, he is on vacation this week
<mac_v> oh...
<mac_v> kwwii: could you show your app store icon? ;p
<kwwii> mac_v: sure, let me export it
<kwwii> not done yet
<kwwii> http://imagebin.ca/view/9EHeRSiR.html
<mac_v> kwwii: hmm... \o/ looks nice :)
<mac_v> i think the logo could need a bit of contrast
<kwwii> true
<mac_v> kwwii: was this the same version you started earlier?
<kwwii> mac_v: http://imagebin.ca/view/FGCcuVaz.html
<kwwii> mac_v: yes, just started playing with it this afternoon
<mac_v> the 32 px looks awesome
<mac_v> kwwii: hehe , we had the same idea ;)
<kwwii> now you know why I asked before I started ;)
<mac_v> :)
<kwwii> mac_v: http://sinecera.de/softwarestore128.png
<mac_v> perfect :)
<mac_v> kwwii: lol , at 24px i thought the red thing was a ruler  , now i realize its a screwdriver, right?
<kwwii> mac_v: right
<mac_v> dashua: hm... you changed the restore ? what happened?
<dashua> mac_v, Yeah, you said to do the squares?
<mac_v> dashua: yeah , but i thought you liked the arrows... so just asked what changed your mind :)
<dashua> I do like the arrows, just thought this looked a little more consistent
<mac_v> yeah
<dashua> That one user was a mad bug reporter
<dashua> Got a lot fixed :)
<mac_v> hrm?
<mac_v> which reporter?
<dashua> rebuilt g-p-m 2.27.92 with all debian patches and it still doesn't work right for sleep
<dashua> Wtf?
<dashua> bennii89
<dashua> He reported 3 or four bugs
<mac_v> haha , there was one for humanity just now , 4-5 bugs in a row
<mac_v> one was for plugins icon in gedit!
<dashua> Ha
<mac_v> it wasnt even in the theme ;p
<dashua> That spinner is pretty sick the UNR branch
<dashua> in*
<mac_v> tell that to Dan
<mac_v> dashua: he likes his version ;P
<dashua> What?
<mac_v> that the UNR spinner is better ;p
<mac_v> there is another version in Humanity
<dashua> mac_v, Fork Breathe and Humanity and make your own killer set ;)
<mac_v> hehe , i dont have that much patience...
<mac_v> but one day sure \o/
<dashua> Nice
<dashua> How are would it be to change the grey scale panel icons to the same color you made the Hanso metacity buttons?
<dashua> Is that a lot of work?
<mac_v> nope its just a simple change
 * dashua bribes mac_v with a box a cookie
<mac_v> but i wonder if it would look nice
<dashua> I dunno
<dashua> Probably would not look too good on light panels
<mac_v> it would become too bright with the same color i used for metacity...  and light panels it wont show properly :(
<dashua> Yeah, maybe a variant or something
<dashua> It looks really good in UNR especially with the new window-picker-applet
<dashua> As it subdues the icons in almost the same color as the panel icons
<dashua> The minimize icons
<dashua> minimized*
<dashua> brb
<dashua> mac_v, The problem with Dan's connection animation is that I can not see it
<dashua> Yours is crystal clear
<dashua> Like a radar
<mac_v> i told him that
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<mac_v> but everyone has their own bias , so i really cant force it too :)
<mac_v> since i'm biased too ;p
<dashua> True.
<dashua> FLOZz, Hi
<FLOZz> hi dashua
<dashua> You're not a greeter bot, eh?
<mac_v> just what i was about to ask ;p
<mac_v> \o_
<dashua> FLOZz, ?
<mac_v> \o/
<mac_v> _o/
<dashua> \m/
<mac_v> _o_
<mac_v> lol
<FLOZz> what ?
<mac_v> oh ! FLOZz you cut my body! :(
<FLOZz> o_O
<mac_v> just when i was about to draw the legs ;)
<FLOZz> mac_v: are you crasy ? xD
<mac_v> ;p
<dashua> FLOZz, We are all crazy.  We use Linux and IRC chat.
<FLOZz> Yes... it's true...
<dashua> And a majority of the time have just three way conversations.
<dashua> mac_v, You mess with new xsplash yet?
<mac_v> dashua: hmm , no , BTW when it the final version coming out
<mac_v> is*
<dashua> Not sure.  It works pretty flawless.
<dashua> One minor flicker for me here on Nvidia.
<dashua> Should be soon, I guess.
<dashua> Maybe Thursday with a DX Team release
<mac_v> this time a lot of things are being completed only after feature freeze :(
<dashua> Yeah
<dashua> The LTS will probably be where it's at
<dashua> New GTK theme and all
<dashua> Unless GNOME 3 messes that up
<mac_v> dashua: Karmic +1 is totally going to be awesome
<mac_v> theme wise
<MDC1> mac_v, any screens of that wonder theme?
<mac_v> MDC1: it was an urban legend ;p
<mac_v> so no one has pictures ;)
<MDC1> hehe
<MDC1> i hoped it was true for once..
<mac_v> from what i have been told it is going to turn out nice :)
<MDC1> i'm really tired of the brown now..it was cool like 5 min 5 years ago..
<MDC1> hmm.. maybe little harsh to say in #u-d ;-)
<MDC1> #u-a *
<mac_v> \o/ channel split
<mac_v> ll
<mac_v> crap!
<mac_v> \o/
<mac_v> |o|
<mac_v> \o/
<mac_v> |.|
<mac_v>  /'\
<mac_v>  \o/
<mac_v>  |.|
<mac_v>  /'\
<mac_v>  \o/
<mac_v>  |.|
<mac_v>  /'\
 * SiDi slaps mac_v to wake him up from his inconscient dance
<mac_v> oops! i'm not alone
<SiDi> :D
<FLOZz> It's a stupid techno dance !
<mac_v> i thought there was a channel split and i was alone. ... ;p
<FLOZz> xD
<FLOZz> Bye
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-09-08
<kwwii> good morning
<wers> guys, is gradient_shade an engine-specific option?
<wers> where can i find a documentation about that?
<kwwii> wers: unfortunately there is very little information available
<kwwii> but, yes, I think it is an engine specific option, as it is in the murrine part of the human gtk
<wers> kwwii, so i'll just base my knowledge on such options on existing gtkrc's right?
<wers> i was wondering why it's not in http://www.cimitan.com/murrine/options though
<wers> or in murrine.xml
<wers> i'm really confused.... hehe
<kwwii> wers: well, there is little info available and what there is somewhat out of date
<kwwii> note that I might be wrong :p
<kwwii> :D
<kwwii> anyway, I think that the murrine webpage is way out of date
<wers> kwwii, yep. good thing Cimi is replying in #gnome-art. hehe
<kwwii> ;)
<mac_v> wers: you could have asked here itself ! Cimi_ is here too...  ;p    we all could have been updated too ;)
<wers> mac_v, apparently, the murrine.xml is just a reference for apps like gnome-color-chooser. i'll just download murrine's source code. hope you guys can give us a list of complete engine options
<mac_v> wers: is this something you are looking for? http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/unstable/GtkWidget.html
<wers> there's no gtk2-engines-murrine package on http://packages.ubuntu.com/jaunty/gnome/ ???
<mac_v> !info gtk2-engines-murrine
<ubottu> gtk2-engines-murrine (source: gtk2-engines-murrine): cairo-based gtk+-2.0 theme engine. In component main, is optional. Version 0.90.3-1ubuntu1 (jaunty), package size 67 kB, installed size 216 kB
<mac_v> wers: ^
<wers> mac_v, that's been very helpful to me along with http://live.gnome.org/GnomeArt/Tutorials/GtkThemes . However, having more descriptions would help us a lot in theming
<wers> especially with engine options because they change rapidly
<mac_v> yeah , hard to know all the available options :(
<mac_v> there should be some place for the complete list of options , I'm pretty sure kwwii is hiding it somewhere ;p
<wers> mac_v, thanks. it's installed by default on jaunty. it's just weird because it's not listed on http://packages.ubuntu.com/jaunty/gnome/ . probably a site bug
<wers> i wonder where some themers refer
 * mac_v too 
<wers> this would be a good project for ubuntu-art. Cimi_ was talking about gtkconf yesterday. it needs dev attention
<wers> if i can only do python...
<wers> with that, many will be inspired to do artwork. i believe that a lot of people have good ideas but they just cant translate them to code. investing efforts on something like gtkconf would really be worth it especially because gtk3 wont make gtk2 work obsolete
<wers> unlike metacity, which i think, would be obsoleted
<lucazade> wers what is gtkconf? gui for theming?
<wers> lucazade, yeah
<lucazade> available somewhere?
<wers> see launchpad
<lucazade> tnx
<wers> lucazade, no prob :)
<wers> i'm trying to make murrine buttons pop out more so they're more pronounced like aurora's. is that possible? any suggestion? :)
<mac_v> wers: pixmaps \o/
<mac_v> ;p
<wers> mac_v, hehe. did aurora achieve that look with pixmaps?
<mac_v> nope
<wers> mac_v, if that's the case, i guess, i'll have to learn engine development and just edit aurora to my liking. hehe
<mac_v> wers: what theme are you working on , right now?
<wers> mac_v, i'm trying to make an aurora-looking theme with the murrine engine. lol
<mac_v> wers: dark theme?
<wers> i patched on sonar yesterday. http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=111593 looks good but i'm still craving for the gradients of aurora
<wers> hybrid
<wers> mac_v, as in like shiki and dust
<mac_v> nice :)
<wers> mac_v, you think it's possible to have the aurora gradients on a shiki-based gtkrc? hehe
<wers> i was trying to do it with gradient_shade but it didnt work
<mac_v> i even forgot how aurora looks like :( , but it was my fav
<mac_v> got tired of installing from external links and finally dumped it ;p
<wers> mac_v, yeah. it's really better to stick with official engines. it's hard to depend on "non-official" ones because you dont know if they will still be developed since your gtkrc is dependent on them
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<mac_v> MDC1: did you note vuntz comment on bgo :)
<MDC1> mac_v, hmm, no mail about it (yet) - what bug?
<mac_v> the icon bug
<mac_v> panel*
<MDC1> ahh. about categories - yes
<MDC1> that's progress ;-)
<MDC1> mac_v, let's just hope we can get the rest of the icons back and i'll be a super happy ubuntu user ;-)
 * MDC1 wonders why it takes forever to build gtk...
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-09-09
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-09-10
<d0od> how did the second artwork drop go? Anything new and awesome?
<mac_v> kwwii: saw the final version of the icons , look nice :)
<mac_v> btw why do the icons all have exec bits?
<mac_v> nice touch on the logo fold ;)
<kwwii> mac_v: probably a mistake I made if they have the wrong rights
<mac_v> kwwii: they are attached to  > Bug #427279 , you could replace it :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 427279 in software-store "Application icon is boring" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/427279
<kwwii> mac_v: yeah, but the person building the package should take care of it probably
<mac_v> ok , i'm mention it to mvo
<kwwii> I'Ve been working on the presence icons for empathy currently
<kwwii> any ideas on what to use for "busy" or "invisible"?
<kwwii> I tried making a bee for busy but it doesn't fit...I did make an amazingly cool 16x16px bee icon though ;)
<mac_v> lol  , busy bee :) nice...
<mac_v> kwwii: if you show the icons you've done already , it might ignite something :)
<mac_v> kwwii: how about the "men at work" yellow symbol?
<knome> hello people
<mac_v> we already see that on streets
<knome> mac_v, but is it bringing a good or bad sign? i wouldn't want to get any negative signs into ubuntu
<knome> usually people just get distracted by those so... what can you expect what they think when they see one on their screen
<mac_v> knome: hmm... i dont think its negative... is it?
<knome> for me it is an annoyance
<mac_v> ;p
<mac_v> knome: it is annoying for others who watch , but for the workers? it fits , right?
<knome> i don't know
<mac_v> anyway , i think the busy bee is a nice idea :)
<knome> i just wanted to raise attention to detail
<mac_v> we could have a yellow diagonal with a hat... but for me the bee trumps this ;p
<mac_v> hard hat*
<kwwii> mac_v: hrm, that might work...let me upload them to my server
<kwwii> http://sinecera.de/latest.png
<mac_v> invisible is nice :) , but why red for offline ?
<kwwii> the ones on the right side are the current attempts
<kwwii> I just included everything to give you an idea of what I have thought of so far
<kwwii> these will appear in the top right menu on th panel
<mac_v> kwwii: the ghosst doesnt fit the set unless the bee is also included , or...
<mac_v> how about a face with a hard hat? instead of the bee?
<kwwii> the bee, to me, says "bug" more than business
<mac_v> yeah , hence the face with a hard hat ;p
<mac_v> kwwii: the ghost without another real object in the list seems the odd one out
<mac_v>  but i like the ghost :)
<kwwii> yeah, it is hard to mix the simple bubbles with real objects
<kwwii> but has become apparent that nobody likes the closed eye...which is good feedback
 * kwwii grabs a smoke, bbiab
<mac_v> ;p
<mac_v> kwwii: why not make them all faces?
<mac_v> available > happy face
<mac_v> away > face turned to right with arrow
<mac_v> busy > face with a hard hat
<mac_v> or a newspaper in front partially covering the face
<mac_v> invisible > ghost
<mac_v> offline > just a dimmed face with plain[no smile]
<kwwii> mac_v: well, if you start drawing faces you have to be careful about cultural differences, etc
<mac_v> hehe , yellow smiley faces , no culture is affected ;p
<Cimi> kwwii, considering the work lapo and jimmac are doing for highres icons, which represent next-gen icon themes, isn't time spent on the current generation (scalable 128x128) time wasted considering the future? It could be that in future gnome releases, like 3.0 and more, highres icons will be used fox many apps
<Cimi> just my thought...
<mac_v> kwwii: but ... would it look professional on a panel to have smileys?
<mac_v> or rather , would it be ideal...
<kwwii> Cimi: right, but we are working on this for this release
<kwwii> mac_v: yeah, not sure...maybe it would be best...I will try it out and see
<Cimi> sure
<mac_v>  another idea for busy > smiley partly covered by desk
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<Cimi> kwwii, since the last murrine revision, it is possible to set the color of the progressbar and scale background
<Cimi> maybe I will do the same for the scrollbar
<Cimi> I know you asked that feature for darkroom
<kwwii> Cimi: yeah, I wish I had time to update darkroom for karmic..maybe a few things are possible
<kwwii> it really needs an update
<Cimi> it should be rewritten ;)
<kwwii> I wish I had a week to sit with you in a room and discuss murrine :p
<kwwii> no doubt
<Cimi> if someone wants to buy me a flight ticket for reach canonical... :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-09-11
<Cimi> s/for/to/
<Cimi_hates_git> kwwii, would you like the same feature for the scrollbar?
<Cimi_hates_git> but there's an issue behind, I will break the old themes (they will work, but the scrollbars will be colored with bg[ACTIVE] which is usually too dark, so the themes should adjust that value)
<kwwii> Cimi_hates_git: kinda late here, ask me that tomorrow :)
<kwwii> before I say something stupid
<kwwii> going to sleep now
<kwwii> finally
<Cimi_hates_git> ehe, studying here
<mrmcq2u> Hi
<mrmcq2u> is their going to be any more artwork making it into karmic before release?
<mrmcq2u> anyone awake tonight?
<dashua> Cimi_hates_git, Can I get gradients on the trough or just a sold color on bg[ACTIVE] ?
<dashua> bg[ACTIVE] is cool
<Cimi_hates_git> dashua, just solid color atm
<Cimi_hates_git> maybe I will add a gradient styling option for the scrollbar's trough, but I would like a mockup that works with different styles...
<dashua> Ah ok
<Cimi_hates_git> bg[ACTIVE] is the right color, gtk+ uses it, but iirc neither murrine nor clearlooks are using it
<dashua> Can you steal the code back from nodoka that was forked from your code? =/
<Cimi_hates_git> of course, but the problem is not how to code :)
<dashua> Still doesn't look right in nodoka, off set or something, but there are gradients
<Cimi_hates_git> the problem is *which looks better*
<dashua> Nodoka's MODERN look has some good options but they all don't look correct
<dashua> I'm testing out the bg[ACTIVE] for progressbar and scale and it looks good
<Cimi_hates_git> I will also add a styling option for the border and the shadow, to emulate aurora and nodoka
<Cimi_hates_git> of course it's meant to works with every style
<dashua> Nice
<Cimi_hates_git> *to work
<Cimi_hates_git> but that will happen in october :)
<dashua> Nice to see a revision pushed, it's been some time :)
<Cimi_hates_git> going to bed now, I've studyed 10 continuos hours :)
<dashua> Nite man
<Cimi_hates_git> thanks (i don't know your timezone, here is 4:45 am)
<mac_v> kwwii: i'v got an idea... for the empathy status' , making one now , will show it in a bit :)
<kwwii> mac_v: http://sinecera.de/latest.png
<mac_v> kwwii: i was thinking more in the likes of > http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/98/The_Office_US_title.jpg
<mac_v> the one on the right
<mac_v> ;D
<kwwii> ahh, good idea but it is only 16x16px
<mac_v> hehe , i'm trying to make one ;) , lets see if it possible
<SiDi> kwwii: do you know anything yet about xsplash theming ?
<SiDi> Is there a documentation or beginning of documentation about it ?
<mac_v> kwwii: http://imagebin.ca/view/WcNxIpr.html
<mac_v> how does that look ?
<mac_v> i thought of adding a briefcase, But didnt trun good :(
<SiDi> mac_v: the arm looks strange, can't see the angle of the elbow
<SiDi> and the person is a bit fat ^^
<mac_v> no elbows :)  didnt add them
<SiDi> but if the arm is straight then it looks a little too "short" compared to the body
<mac_v> SiDi: yeah , that needs some work still its just a WIP ;)
<SiDi> aside from that it looks cool
<mac_v> kwwii: for available > http://imagebin.ca/view/hWBBk1.html
<mac_v> kwwii: how did you put all your icons in one plate? like this > http://sinecera.de/latest.png   ?
<mac_v> oh great! kernel panic and lost that icon!
<knome> LOL
<mac_v> hehe... luckily i had exported the icon , so now i'm gonna trace it \o/
<mac_v> knome: similarly i lost the software store icon last week!
 * mac_v switching off all the boot testing ppa's!
<knome> haha, a good decision
<kwwii> mac_v: I am drawing them in inkscape, that is how I made them all on one page
<mac_v> kwwii: i'm doing them in inkscape too... which option is that?
<kwwii> mac_v: not an option, just spaced out on the page
<mac_v> oh.. that , ok   :)
<SiDi> kwwii: you have no idea how hilarious i think it is to not be able to put the wallpaper photos in the CD :D
<kwwii> SiDi: why?
<SiDi> Because tomboy takes 58MB on the CD
<kwwii> hehe
<SiDi> and since they were running out of room, i've heard they removed gimp's doc from the CD :)
<mac_v> kwwii: http://imagebin.ca/view/IJ5JqzaT.html :)
<kwwii> mac_v: hehe, you did it
<mac_v> \o/
<kwwii> mac_v: http://siencera.de/latest.png is where I got before I gave up
<SiDi> Away looks like 'haha i run away from you' :D
<SiDi> kwwii: 404, you really gave up early :P
<kwwii> in the end, I am going with the bubbles with the identifiers on them, all in all it seems the best
<kwwii> erm, sorry
<mac_v> yeah 404
<kwwii> http://sinecera.de/latest.png
<mac_v> yeah , human has the liberty of color :)
<mac_v> oh ... i got disconnected...
<mac_v> kwwii: did you happen to reply, about the labels ? i lost connection in between
<kwwii> about the labels?
<kwwii> 16:40 < mac_v> yeah , human has the liberty of color :)
<kwwii> 16:47 -!- mac_v [n=mac_V@unaffiliated/macvre] has quit [Read error: 104  (Connection reset by peer)]
<kwwii> is the last I have
<mac_v> oh!
<mac_v> kwwii: what is the icon label for these empathy status icons? i cant find them :(
<kwwii> what do you mean by label? I don't understand
<mac_v> hrm... ah..
<kwwii> I named them as per the xdg spec (funny, that as this was the first part of the spec that I worked on since I became co-maintainer)
<kwwii> and they are in the status/ dir
<mac_v> oh
<kwwii> user-available, -away, -busy, -invisible, and -offline
<kwwii> they are in the human theme in my ppa
<mac_v> in your ppa ,... hehe i was searching in human karmic :D
<kwwii> they haven't made it that far yet :p
<mac_v> i was actually searching for the present empathy icons , too , damn they are well hidden :(
<SiDi> Does anyone know when mat_t will be back ?
<kwwii> they are probably in the app itself I guess
<kwwii> SiDi: yes, on Monday
<SiDi> okies ty
<SiDi> he's the one doing xsplash theming, if im not wrong ?
<mac_v> ah ha... found them!
<andreasn> mac_v, usr/share/empathy?
<mac_v> grr... yeah
<andreasn> grr?
<mac_v> it uses its own labels!
<mac_v> emapthy-available and so on :(
<kwwii> yeah, stupid that
<kwwii> pidgin is worse though
<andreasn> file bugs?
<andreasn> should be rather easy to fix
 * mac_v pokes kwwii to fix the naming ;p
<kwwii> andreasn: well, we just changed teh xdg spec so I imagine it will take a bit of time for that to make it's way down
<andreasn> what does the xdg spec say now?
<kwwii> actually, dobey still needs to add the rest of the names to the spec
<andreasn> does it still conflict with the telepathy spec?
<mac_v> lol... what is "extended away" ;)
<kwwii> andreasn: no, empathy and the spec are inline (expect their use of the empathy- prefix instead of user-
<andreasn> mac_v, something that a lot of people would go after you with tar and feathers if you ever suggested to remove it ;)
<andreasn> kwwii, but what about telepathy? (not empathy)
<kwwii> the official names are now: user-available, -offline, -away, -busy, -invisible, -idle
<mac_v> ;)
<andreasn> sounds sane
<mac_v> \o/
<kwwii> andreasn: iirc, telepathy is also already using the new names
<kwwii> anything that is not should have a bug filed against it ;)
<kwwii> kde goes all out and has *lots* of names
<andreasn> I'll check with hbons if they can fix the pidgin names
<kwwii> that would be cool
<andreasn> called him now, we're looking into it
<kwwii> cool, if there is any discussion as to the names and such, could you add it to the bug in launchpad?
<andreasn> there is a bug in launchpad?
<kwwii> andreasn: yes, we decided to have all the discussions on xdg naming as bugs on lp so we could follow things
<kwwii> #396822 and #401186
<kwwii> https://bugs.launchpad.net/icon-naming-spec/+bug/396822
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 396822 in icon-naming-spec "Icon spec should have a more complete set of status icons" [Undecided,New]
<zniavre> hello / bonjour
<zniavre> im trying karmic (9.10) i saw the new icon folder in home directory , i first thought it was "emblems" but they are new icons from Human theme
<zniavre> why Download folder does not work ?
<zniavre> (im tryng to adjust my own icon theme but this folder still does not work with mine)
<zniavre> http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/2540/captureen.png
<mac_v> zniavre: how have you labelled the icon?
<mac_v>  "Download" or Downloads" ?
<mrdoob> does empathy have IRC?
<mac_v> mrdoob: yup , but it sucks ;p
<mrdoob> :(
<zniavre> mac_v,  i tried every thing download Download (s) TÃ©lÃ©chargement (s) tÃ©lÃ©chargement (s)  (om a bit french)
<mrdoob> well, I guess I can always install pidgin :)
<zniavre> mac_v,  +1 for empathy   :o)
<mac_v> mrdoob: try xchat
<mrdoob> no no
<mrdoob> I like to have everything in one program
<mrdoob> pidgin does the job
<mac_v> ;p
<mac_v> mrdoob: then empathy is better than pidgin
<zniavre> mrdoob, empathy too but in a strange way
<mac_v> zniavre: hmm.. that weird , the downloads icon works for me
<mrdoob> oh, better than pidgin? sounds like a deal, I haven't find the option on jaunty yet
<mac_v> mrdoob: you need to install telepathy-idle
<mac_v> for irc
<SiDi> zniavre: echo $XDG_DOWNLOAD_DIR
<zniavre> mac_v,  http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/3125/capture1hg.png
<mac_v> zniavre: when did you install karmic?
<zniavre> at least 10days (maybe more)
<mac_v> hrm... :(
<zniavre> SiDi,  it does nothing in terminal
<mac_v> zniavre: what gtk theme are you using? the transparency is nice :) is it with emerald?
<zniavre> my own gtk/metacity
<zniavre> (and i did not patch karmic yet with rgba-module from gnome-look it was marvelous before)
<zniavre> :o)
<mac_v> zniavre: you have it on gnome-look? link?
<zniavre> old one not updated since a century
<zniavre> zni3 on gnome-look
<zniavre> can i fill a bug report on launchpad for this "bug" ?
<mac_v> yeah...  why not :)
<zniavre> ok thank you very much
<SiDi> zniavre: it should be set afaik
<zniavre> what afaik is meaning ?
<zniavre> sorry i hav to bring my daughter somewhere else see you tonight
<SiDi> as far as i know == afaik
<SiDi> as far as i can tell (afaict) - can see (afaics)
 * kwwii heads out for the evening...have fun, bbl
<SiDi> bb kwwii
<kwwii> anyone have mrdoob'S email?
<mac_v> kwwii: did you try the wiki? maybe wiki user-accounts?
<kwwii> I did a text search on the wiki and only found the boot pages with his name on it
<kwwii> ahhh....I know where to look
<kwwii> boah, he has no email listed anywhere...crap
<mac_v> kwwii: is it urgent ? :) , i think he'll be back tomorrow
<mac_v> kwwii: or you could contact MadsRH , if its urgent , mrdoob has sent a mail to MadsRh
<kwwii> I sent him a message through launchpad, thanks anyway though
<mac_v> :)
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<MadsRH> Does anyone know who "MacUntu", "Plun" and "Darkshade" from the forum is? I'm hoping to catch one of them here on the IRC, but I don't know their IRC names.
<zniavre_> good evening
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-09-12
<eyeron> ahoy
<knome> yoha
<eyeron> heh
<SiDi_> hey dashua
<dashua> SiDi_, Sup mate?
<SiDi_> fine, you ?
<dashua> Just got home from dinner.  Good timing. :)
<SiDi_> wow
<dashua> Good.
<dashua> Yeah, late.
<SiDi_> oh, you're in the USA ? :P
<dashua> Aye.
<knome> lol
<SiDi_> its 4 AM here
<knome> tell me about late
<knome> it's 5 am here
<SiDi_> 5 AM in knome's country
<dashua> =/
<SiDi_> we were talking about our gtk themes in xubuntu
<dashua> Up early or can't sleep?
<knome> up late, could sleep but don't want to ;)
<SiDi_> i think we'd be interested in shipping an alvaro based theme as the default dark theme
<dashua> Oh nice.
<SiDi_> so i wanted to know if you would be around this week end to help us shape this up :)
<dashua> Yeah.  I'll be around.  Np.
<SiDi_> Wee :)
<dashua> My youngest daughter has a soccer game tomorrow, but other than that I'm free.
<knome> dashua, is there a definite url to link to about alvaro?
<dashua> Just on GNOME-Look for now.
<dashua> I can't remember if I pushed the code to Launchpad
<dashua> I know I did not make a project for it yet.
<SiDi_> dashua: i think i have 3 compulsory parties tomorrow so we'll probably talk about usplash & icons with knome when we can find each other, and work on gtk sunday
<dashua> Ok cool.
<dashua> SiDi_, You already did the Xfwm4?
<SiDi_> yes
<dashua> Nice.
<SiDi_> ive been using it almost constantly since you released alvaro
<dashua> And you tweaked it somewhat, right?
<SiDi_> only in the last days i ran default xubuntu for panel testing
<SiDi_> i think i tried to, and failed
<dashua> Hehe.
<SiDi_> it should be like the metacity, really :p
<dashua> That was the quickest theme I think I've ever made.
<SiDi_> its an awesome one :D
<dashua> Thx :)
<dashua> I should have made a wiki and tried for the community, but I ran out of time and Hanso was already pretty much completed.
<SiDi_> its been funny to see all the different versions of hanso
<SiDi_> it makes me think of different brands of coffee now :d
<dashua> Yeah, it has really evolved.
<dashua> Look similar, but really nothing like  the original iteration.
<dashua> It's over six months, I think?
<SiDi_> hm
<SiDi_> probably
<knome> ehm
<knome> so
<knome> let me ask this most stupid question again
<knome> the xfwm theme handles the window borders/decorations, but gtk handles everything else?
<SiDi_> he'll ask where is alvaro on the internet :p
<SiDi_> knome: yes
<knome> no, i already linked it
<SiDi_> gtkrc for the gtk theme's look
<knome> SiDi_, i already have lots of text you need to read;)
<SiDi_> metacity theme for the gnome WM
<SiDi_> xfwm theme for xfwm
<knome> now you confused me :D
<knome> SiDi_, are you running karmic?
<dashua> SiDi_, knome: Do you want to stay with the orange bg_selected or a blue?
<knome> blue, i think
<dashua> Ok
<knome> definitely not orange, even if there's not really anything wrong with it
<dashua> Alright, I'll come up with something unless you already have a palette to work with?
<knome> we kind of have
<knome> the palette is here: http://emonk.fi/open/xubuntu/9.10/Mockups/06-hires.png
<knome> well, the hue value
<knome> suppose the saturation and lightness will still change on the wall/gdm
<dashua> That's good.
<dashua> Nice wallpaper.
<knome> thanks
<dashua> You need it done for this cycle or Karmic +1?
<knome> this
<dashua> Ok
<knome> but we can alter the colors ourselves, i think
<knome> or on sunday together
<SiDi> err
<dashua> Yeah, that's should be easy.
<knome> SiDi, ehm?
<SiDi> sorry, forgot to replug the laptop
<dashua> that*
<knome> dashua, i supposed so :)
<dashua> Is Xubuntu doing something with the new xsplash?
<SiDi> i seriously hope so, dashua
<dashua> images will be pretty easy to change
<dashua> It's pretty flawless here
<SiDi> considering the state of our usplash im all keen on taking one of the good drafts for the ubuntu one and working on a blue version
<dashua> I've been running it for a few days
<SiDi> We completely lack testers :d
<SiDi> still didnt use xsplash once
<dashua> Oh wow.
<SiDi> hehe
<dashua> It's really nice, but I'm not sure why it hasn't dropped yet.
<dashua> Maybe issues with other video drivers.
<SiDi> no idea
<SiDi> the new theme is there already ?
<dashua> Not the user switcher
<knome> GOSH!
<dashua> Just the white shadowed Ubuntu logo, the new throbber, and the dark brown background
<dashua> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBeNMk2W6hw
<dashua> That's it.
<dashua> Pretty sexxy.
<knome> not bad.
<SiDi> okey lets call it a day
<SiDi> knome, dashua see you this week-end :)
<dashua> SiDi, Nite mate.
<SiDi> (i also have to release & package an exaile version tomorrow... completely forgot :D)
<knome> meh
<knome> night SiDi
<SiDi> dashua: dont hesitate to join #xubuntu-devel from times to times btw ;)
<knome> you will have a BIG mail waiting for you in the morning
<SiDi> yay
<SiDi> have a nice night both of you
<dashua> SiDi, Ok np. :)
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<thorwil> is there a way to show a flickr pool oldest image first?
<zniavre_> http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/984/capturelh.png
<zniavre_> the Human icons creator is here ?
<zniavre_> creator / dev / or mainteners*
<zniavre> yes! i finally found good typo for the donwload folder in nautilus
<zniavre> :o)
<SiDi> what was it ?
<zniavre> folder-download.png    basicaly
<zniavre> :o)
<SiDi> does anyone have screenies of the latest gdm in action please ? :P
<mac_v> SiDi: huh? what latest gdm?
<SiDi> the karmic one
<mac_v> mat hasnt done them yet
<SiDi> btw, if anyone sees mrdoob feel free to ping me :)
<mac_v> SiDi: nope... not trading him to mice ;p
<zniavre>  gdmflexiserver --xnest does not work anymore ..
<SiDi> mac_v: i wanna use one of his iterations as a base for our gdm/xsplash :]
<mac_v> SiDi: i knew that the minute you asked ... thats why wont allow ;)
<SiDi> its free software ! meh
<thorwil> kwwii: where do you see a number higher than 1702?
<SiDi> thorwil: in N ?
<SiDi> .. 1703 ?
 * SiDi is already out
<knome> hah
<knome> SiDi, thorwil just thinks he is at year 1702
<thorwil> 2 funny
<SiDi> Well, i wouldnt argue if he was in Z/1702Z
<SiDi> 1702 funny even
<SiDi> knome: artwork mail !!
<SiDi> thorwil: how is your new job btw ?
<SiDi> did you finally get a fulltime one ?
<thorwil> SiDi: freelance job. nearly over now and not sure about follow-ups
<thorwil> but it was nice :)
<SiDi> great
<knome> SiDi, meh
<knome> SiDi, i will answer it later today. guests :P
<SiDi> damn
<SiDi> we will never finish this weekend :d
<knome> hah
<SiDi> and the exaile devs dont wanna review patches cause they have too many homework or work projects
<SiDi> so i cant get 0.3.0.2 released
<SiDi> and MacSlow is too busy to review the notifyosd patch (its such a tiny patch.. i dont understand :P)
<knome> SiDi, artwork mail ;P
<SiDi> dashua: youve been invited into a group :P
<kwwii> thorwil: on the front page of the group
<thorwil> kwwii: that's where i read 1702
<kwwii> it says 1937 photos currently
<kwwii> lol
<kwwii> 627 members
<kwwii> http://www.flickr.com/groups/ubuntu-artwork/
 * ckontros sees 1702
<kwwii> http://sinecera.de/Screenshot-1.png
<kwwii> I swear I am not crazy :p
<ckontros> Odd. Maybe it's something with you being in the group?
<thorwil> http://i28.tinypic.com/rwrj89.jpg
<ckontros> That's how mine looks.
<thorwil> damn
<thorwil> it amkes no difference if i'm logged in or not
<thorwil> makes, even
<thorwil> kwwii: i guess you have to assemble the link lists, then ;)
<SiDi> i see 1702 too
<SiDi> kwwii: you got a pro account
<SiDi> maybe some photos are only avail for seeing to pro accounts
<SiDi> if im logged in i see 1937 too
<ckontros> I think pntphoto has some nice ones. ie: http://www.flickr.com/photos/pntphoto/3890923541/sizes/m/in/pool-556923@N24
<thorwil> kwwii: do you see any option to filter the ones only visible with "pro" accounts?
<SiDi> kwwii: do you have any documentation about gdm 2.27 / xsplash theming, by any chance ?
<ckontros> dashua: What's with the lighter to the square use for the minimize glyph in current Hanzo? (strikes me odd but you might have a reason)
<ckontros> *lighter center
<kwwii> thorwil: no, I cannot see that
<thorwil> kwwii: if we could get a list of those 1937, we could do a diff. but where i could simply use wget in a bash script, here we would need the cookie. anyway, good night!
<ckontros> kwwii: vrms reports tangerine-icon-theme as non-free. That right?
<FLOZz> ckontros: https://launchpad.net/tangerine-icon-theme : Â«  This projectâs license has not been specified.  Â»
<FLOZz> it's maybe the problem ?
<ckontros> FLOZz: I figured it out. DFSG just doesn't see CC-BY-SA as totally non-free.
<FLOZz> yes...
<FLOZz> but where is the licence file ?
<ckontros> Look at /usr/share/doc/tangerine-icon-theme
<ckontros> Might be there.
<FLOZz> ok thanks
<kwwii> ckontros: no, that should not be right
<kwwii> debian used to have a problem with ccbysa but from what I understand in the meantime it is not such a problem
<ckontros> kwwii: Yeah. Package might need an update.
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-09-13
<dashua> SiDi, Got it :)
<SiDi> knome: piiiing
<knome> yes?
 * dashua is looking at the bluejay code
<SiDi> its yours
<SiDi> i just began changing stuff in the menu
<dashua> Hehe, looks familiar
<SiDi> knome wanna rewrite it all from a murrine gtkrc, but i is too lazy for that
<knome> hah
<knome> i don't specifically want to do that, but i think we need options.
<knome> i want to see what we can achieve with alvaro and then maybe rewrite it.
<dashua> Cimi just pushed an option to murrine to color the scale and progressbar troughs with bg[ACTIVE]
<dashua> Looks pretty nice
<SiDi> i love gtk's consistent use of the style properties for widgets
<SiDi> i think gtk sucks a lot actually :D
<SiDi> (for theming i mean)
<kwwii> SiDi: no documentation about either xsplash or gdm but I can give you all the info once I have it
<dashua> It does, so where the limits are is where it's nice for pixmaps
<SiDi> kwwii: that would be extremely appreciated
<kwwii> SiDi: I will have to implement it
<knome> kwwii, could you please send that information directly to the xubuntu-devel list?
<SiDi> apparently for gdm we managed to get almost everything themed (apart from the bg) but for xsplash we know nothing
<kwwii> trust me, I have all other variants in mind
<knome> kwwii, i trust you, but it would be damn handy to get it in the mailing list. :)
<SiDi> yeh
<SiDi> might help convince cody that xsplash is cool ? :P
<kwwii> knome: not sure if I can do that, but I can make it really clear on a lot of lists that it is so ;)
<kwwii> or, send me an email reminding me to do so ;)
<knome> your mail?
<kwwii> I don't have that list in my head
<dashua> SiDi, knome: Are you using gnome-brave or elementary for icons?
<knome> dashua, gnome-brace or humanity.
<knome> *brave
<dashua> Ok
<knome> kwwii, what's your mail addy? :P
<kwwii> kwwii at ubuntu.com canonical.com sinecera.de bootsplash.org
<knome> do you want it in all of those?
<knome> ;)
<kwwii> :p
<knome> sent a reminder message
<knome> do you want some cron-scheduled once-in-an-hour messages?
<knome> ;)
<kwwii> if I mentioned the rest, you would think I like kde more than gnome/ubuntu so I will leave it as is
<SiDi> knome: the reason #2 for not using gnome-brave is its scalable/apps folder
<SiDi> who the *** do they think they are to override exaile and inkscape icons with dinosaur ones ?
<knome> SiDi, what was the reason #1?
<kwwii> knome: oh, yes...I don't get enough spam as it is
<SiDi> dashua: i definately want to use an humanity based theme
<SiDi> knome: the fireworks media icons :D
<knome> kwwii, ;)
<kwwii> time for sleep here, you know you to get a hold of me
<kwwii>  :p
<knome> good night kenneth
<dashua> SiDi, Ok, then elementary right, the blue version of Humanity?
<SiDi> good night kwwii :)
<kwwii> night all
<dashua> kwwii, Nite.
<SiDi> i think we could use Elementary yeh
<SiDi> would avoid an huge recoloring work
<SiDi> and then add our own icons here & there when needed
<SiDi> knome: ?
<dashua> I was messing with some bluish versions of Alvaro and gnome-carbonite looked really good
<dashua> Not blue though, dark grey
<dashua> The folders anyway.
<SiDi> do you have a link ?
<SiDi> google doesnt find it
<knome> SiDi, ugh?
<knome> SiDi, so elementary is a blue version of humanity?
<SiDi> knome: Elementary comes from the same author
<SiDi> but i think he works mostly on humanity now
<dashua> Humanity is really an orange version of elementary
<kwwii> knome: thanks for the email, I will send the info asap
<knome> i remember him sending email to the xub devel list after jaunty
<knome> kwwii, no problem :)
<kwwii> dashua: exactly
<knome> who is he, btw?
 * dashua enjoys The Beatles remasters :)
<knome> dashua, are they significantly better than the original?
<SiDi> DanRabbit
<dashua> Oh my, YES!
<SiDi> he's often in #ayatana
<knome> dashua, so how to convince my mother on that? :P
<dashua> They sound absolutely incredible
<SiDi> http://www.mail-archive.com/xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/msg06659.html
<dashua> The set comes with the mono versions too
<kwwii> knome: to be honest, you should ask martin pitt about the changes
<knome> gosh
<kwwii> he is the one who knows
<kwwii> pitti is his nick
<knome> i know
<SiDi> dashua: i thught about the programming language, i was like wtf mono beatles ?
<dashua> Haha
<kwwii> then again, I work with him, so I can gather the info and get it to you as well
<knome> dashua, that comment makes me want them.
<knome> kwwii, well..
<kwwii> anyway, goodnight
<dashua> They sound really really good
<knome> night kwwii
<dashua> And the integrity is well maintained
<knome> gosh
<knome> it's expensive!
<dashua> Amazon has the entire set for $179 USD
<knome> to be honest, i don't like beatles that much.
<knome> i like them, but not that much.
<knome> but hearing it is really great and knowing it's a collection with *everything* makes me want it
<dashua> You can just grab your favorites too
<dashua> Sgt. Peppers is a must have
<knome> i know, but that's not quite the same.
<dashua> It's pretty huge here.  People are raving over it
<knome> right.
<dashua> That and the game, which I haven't picked up yet
<knome> i think i need to convince my mother to buy that *FOR ME*
<knome> ;P
<dashua> That is a great gift.
<knome> she actually asked today if i wanted her to buy me a wii and beatles rock band
<dashua> Oh nice.
 * SiDi whispers the words 'icon theme' discretely
<knome> SiDi, no, there is not remastered beatles icon set.
<knome> *no
<dashua> For the theme, you want to just keep the menubar dark, not the toolbar?
<dashua> Pretty much Alvaro tweaked out with a Xubuntu appeal and feel to it.
<knome> if there is no problems in making the toolbar dark, i don't see why we couldn't do it.
<knome> dashua, are you subscribed to the xubuntu dev ML so you can send a mail there quickly?
<dashua> knome, Not yet.  Let me subscribe.
<SiDi> dashua: we want to do 2 versions
<SiDi> a "light" one with a light panel / title bar to go with our default xfwm
<SiDi> and a one that is alvaro but in blue
<SiDi> knome: agree ? :P
<knome> dashua, okay, great.
<knome> SiDi, i have to think about this and digest it first.
<knome> SiDi, so the dark one would also have a dark toolbar?
<SiDi> it would have a light toolbar
<SiDi> just as alvaro
<SiDi> its why its an albatross, its black only on the top side :D
<knome> let me look again at alvaro
<dashua> knome, subscribed
<knome> dashua, good. we're having this artwork discussion there and if you don't mind, you could take part in it once we start sending more mails about it
<knome> i want the artwork to work well with the gtk theme
<knome> and possibly the alvaro xfwm theme
<knome> dashua, the archives with all the karmic-artwork related messages is here: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2009-September/thread.html
<dashua> Ok np.
<SiDi> http://imagebin.ca/img/1c4yPLw.png
<knome> SiDi, can you provide a screenshot where the toolbar is active (eg. it has some text/icons in it)?
<SiDi> http://imagebin.ca/img/pS7HEMJ.png
<SiDi> im not convinced by all elementary icons
<knome> what if it were black? dashua, have you tried that?
<knome> me neither
<SiDi> but i dont like the tango-isme of gnome brave much
<SiDi> and the elementary icons' shape ROCK
<SiDi> the update manager icon is so sexy too
<knome> that's the reason we were not migrating to elementary right after jaunty despite that mail
<SiDi> black toolbars bring more problems with some apps, they mean more maintenance
<knome> SiDi, i know.
<dashua> Ha, that xfwm looks better than the metacity
<SiDi> and alvaro's light grey toolbar gradient provides a good contrast
<SiDi> dashua: :D
<knome> what about making the toolbar slightly darker?
<SiDi> might be me who sucks with gtk theming but it looks bad when the grey is darker
<knome> can i see ?
<dashua> SiDi, Right.
<dashua> The gradients are not as pronounced.
<dashua> I already messed with that.
<SiDi> http://imagebin.ca/img/BIkp9-1q.png
<knome> oh, THAT'S the toolbar
<knome> roflmao
<knome> what's the one in the bottom? :P
<knome> (just make the toolbar as it was)
<SiDi> statusbar ?
<knome> yeah.
<knome> :D
<knome> can we make that dark?
<SiDi> hm, let me see
<SiDi> wont work very well with gedit and ... exaile
<knome> lol
<knome> can i see? :P
<SiDi> exaile has planned to switch to a proper GtkStatusBar for 0.3.1 tho
<dashua> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/24515/screenshot_qr4zp7.png
<knome> that's the bar below statusbar?
<knome> :)
<knome> or ehm
<dashua> That's gnome-carbonite
<knome> right
<dashua> Matches pretty good with the scrollbar
<SiDi> I cant find how to colorize the text
<knome> SiDi, what if you only make it slightly darker?
<dashua> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/24516/screenshot_006_O06J4x.png
<dashua> SiDi, knome: This blue too washed?
<SiDi> http://imagebin.ca/view/Qei6gOl.html
<SiDi> dashua: see that blue : http://imagebin.ca/img/1c4yPLw.png :D
<SiDi> i love it
<SiDi> yours is cool too but yeah, i find it too washed
<knome> SiDi, less dark
<SiDi> knome: ?
<knome> let me see
<knome> SiDi, GOSH NOT YOUR BLUE AT LEAST
<knome> ;)
<knome> where did my inkscape go?
<SiDi> Meeeeh knome ;P
<dashua> SiDi, Real quick.  Why does notify-osd sometimes not display the cover art?
<dashua> Even if it there in the player.
<dashua> it's*
<SiDi> dashua: hm i think it's a NO issue with some files with a particular ratio
<knome> dashua, i think that blue looks damn good on top of the wallpaper
<SiDi> dashua: you should report, i'll set to confirmed, i had some cases too
<SiDi> please provide these covers too :]
<dashua> knome, Yeah.  I'm digging this and that is big could I never use blue =/
<knome> just a moment
<knome> i'll export this...
<dashua> SiDi, Ok, i'll report it.
<knome> some lah
<knome> *
<knome> !!
<knome> LAG
<dashua> SiDi, I think it certain resolutions of pictures that do it.
<dashua> Have to pin point it.
<SiDi> http://imagebin.ca/view/TdRr6zNO.html
<dashua> it's*
<knome> http://emonk.fi/open/xubuntu/9.10/Mockups/06-hires-withwindow.png
<knome> oops, the window is a bit strecthed
<knome> but you get the point anyawy
<knome> SiDi, ^
<knome> the colors really play well togeter
<knome> +h
<SiDi> yep, they do
<knome> dashua, let's keep that color. :)
<SiDi> btw, knome, do you agree that the navigation icons could be blue, grey, yellow, pink, but definately not green ? :D
<knome> no, i can't agree on that
<SiDi> because of pink ?
<knome> but i'm open to all other opinions also.
<knome> no, they can be green also
<SiDi> that looks weird to me
<knome> they can't be purple
<knome> :P
<SiDi> there never was green in the palette
<knome> but if we make them blue, it's too blue
<knome> green is a damn refreshing thing in that img
<knome> i like it.
<SiDi> alright, lets say the blue jay hit a tree by accident and kept some leaves attached
<knome> haha
<knome> sure
<knome> ;)
<dashua> knome, Ok.
<SiDi> dashua: knome i let you work on the albatross (dark one) then, feel free to set a branch
<dashua> I think it matches well with the toolbar gradient
<dashua> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/24517/screenshot_007_k6po7P.png
<dashua> SiDi, Ok np.
<knome> dashua, yeah. is that the "default" alvaro toolbar grad?
<dashua> Yep.
<knome> in that cropped picture, it looks a bit weird
<dashua> You're not going to get the trough background
<dashua> That is in murrine trunk
<knome> you mean transparent something?
<knome> or what do you mean :)
<dashua> The grey background behind the progressbar and scale
<knome> sorry, i think i am a bit unfocused and somewhat can't changet that thing now :P
<knome> oh
<knome> that's fine
<dashua> Ok.
<knome> i now meant the toolbar as in toolbar. :)
<knome> that gradient just looked a bit weird, don't know why
<dashua> Yeah, I haven't touched that.
<dashua> Same as the original
<knome> okay
<knome> it looks good on the non-cut screenshots though.
<knome> SiDi, ?
<dashua> Ok, yeah it's the same. Just cropped.
<knome> yep.
<SiDi> y?
<knome> SiDi, is there anything else we should work on albatross?
<knome> or.. whatever
<knome> :P
<SiDi> on the dark theme
<knome> wait a minute
<SiDi> lets call them dark / light for now =D
<knome> wasn't this the dark theme?
<SiDi> it is
<knome> so...
<SiDi> Yeh, well
<knome> is there something specific you want us to work on
<SiDi> the menus
<knome> what's with them?
<SiDi> i dnt like alvaro's menu with just stock blue
<SiDi> but dunno how it renders with dashua's
<knome> blue?
<knome> wait.. :D
<knome> did you have a screenshot of that? :P
<SiDi> no ? :P
<SiDi> dashua: may you screeny your menus please ?
<SiDi> knome: i also wanna make sure the panel buttons look fine
<dashua> SiDi, menu-item issues?
<knome> dashua, yup.
<knome> dashua, have you seen the "famous" murrinexubuntu ?
<SiDi> dashua: i dont like the slight gradient (or however it can be called) with the blue i use in my side, it looks too glossy
<dashua> Hrm no I don't think.
<knome> dashua, okay.
<dashua> Ah yeah.  That is easy to fix.
<knome> in MX, the selected menu is darker than the menubar usually is.
<dashua> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/24518/screenshot_5KW3Q4.png
<dashua> That too glossy?
<SiDi> yeh, it looks like the highlighted item is in 3D
<SiDi> and i think we need more contrast between bg / text in the menus
<SiDi> so we would either need quite a dark text  or a less dark menu bg (which wouldnt be as cool)
<dashua> Ok.  I'll test some possibilities.
<knome> dashua, wait a sec.
<knome> dashua, see http://emonk.fi/open/xubuntu/9.10/shot_20090913-03:29:16-1.png
<knome> dashua, i'd love that darker active menu
<knome> and i think that's about the effect we want for the selected menu item
<knome> just a carefully selected plain color or very near that
<dashua> Ok.  I have transparency enabled too on my menus.  Let me disable that.
<SiDi> knome: for the dark variant i definately want an unified dark xfwm :/
<SiDi> if you have an inactive window having just the title bar black, in the middle, brings the eye's attention much
<SiDi> and it lacks elegance
<knome> i think we already agreed we want the default theme to have the default xfce xfwm and that the default theme would be the dark theme? :P
<SiDi> knome: i cant allow that sorry :]
<knome> SiDi, then i must pull your nose until "you" "allow" it ;)
<SiDi> if the titlebar is dark then the window decoration must be too, for active/inactive windows
<knome> SiDi, who's your marketing lead? ;]]
<SiDi> knome: i will have to suicide if you release it as it is
<knome> haha.
<SiDi> for the sake of mental health ! :P
<knome> we must look at that.
<SiDi> imagine a very nice garden, with a cool set of bright flowers and plants, and, there, in the middle, a *****in telephone cabine
<dashua> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/24522/screenshot_1_1F7L2G.png
<knome> SiDi, yummy!
<SiDi> thats exactly the feeling i get with the dark titlebar + bright window border
<knome> the titlebar is not exactly "bright" ...
<dashua> Dark fg[PRELIGHT] looks better than white
<SiDi> dashua: great
<SiDi> Can you please try to put roundness 2 and remove the highlight shade completely ?
<dashua> Yeah
<knome> dashua, can the applications text be still white, even if it is selected?
<dashua> Yeah, this is just for menu-items
<knome> okay, so let it be white
<SiDi_> the title bar ?
<knome> let it be, let it be, oh let it be
<knome> speaking words of wisdom, let it be
<knome> SiDi_, the applications menu text when the menu is open
<dashua> Ha
<SiDi_> okies
<SiDi_> knome: im not against default xfwm but then we need to set the inactive windows to use a dark color too
<SiDi_> and i think it breaks one of this xfwm's features
<knome> SiDi_, okay.
<knome> hmm?
<knome> which one then
<SiDi_> because with bright title bars it looks great to have those active / inactive borders different
<SiDi_> its just not as easy with dark themes :D
<knome> seriously.
<knome> i think what we have now has worked like a charm.
<knome> can't the inactive menubar be a little lighter?
<knome> rather than adjusting the titlebar
<SiDi_> damn why do all these widgets have similar names ?
<SiDi_> you cant control the gtk theme depending on whether windows are focused, knome
<knome> >__<
<SiDi_> and if we make it lighter then the theme really isnt dark anymore :P and the blackness of the window borders with this theme will then look weird :D
<knome> if somebody writes a patch for gtk, can we do it?
<knome> :P
<SiDi_> no
<SiDi_> :P
<SiDi_> that kind of patch wouldnt be accepted imo
<knome> we of course would upload our own version into xubuntu
<SiDi_> i dont think metacity and xfwm both use the proper FD.o way for knowing whether apps are focused or not
<knome> they should be patched then as well
<SiDi_> your own version of gtk ? :D huh
<SiDi_> if we ask for _that_, they'll kick our asses badly imo ^^
<SiDi_> hi Cimi
<Cimi> hi
<knome> SiDi_, what if i like people kicking me arese?
<knome> -e
<SiDi_> knome: the problem of that patch is that it would probably require to design the correct way to do it, which would pull in all the current issues with gtk theming : completely incoherence of use of NORMAL / ACTIVE / SELECTED, etc, between widgets
<SiDi_> they wont let us double the number of use cases just for that imo :P
<SiDi_> knome: ask your wife, damn it
<knome> no, really?
<knome> she's sleeping :P
<knome> what if i like... men kicking my arse?
<SiDi_> Why is your xfwm theme blue btw ?
<SiDi_> mine is black with default xfwm and albatross theme selected
<knome> meh
<SiDi_> hm sorry dashua knome but im leaving you guys here
<knome> lol :D
<SiDi_> im too tired, my eyes begin to hurt x_x
<knome> let's continue tomorrow then.
<knome> :)
<SiDi_> dont forget to branch that stuff done so far :)
<knome> dashua, ^
<SiDi_> good night everyone
<dashua> SiDi_, Np :)
<knome> night SiDi :D
<Cimi> jawn
<dashua> SiDi_, knome: Test branch pushed :)
<knome> great
<knome> i will soon fade into bed :P
<knome> good night!
<dashua> Nite
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<mac_v> dashua: i dont see the music covers art too , this happens for some songs
<ckontros> mac_v: Since you've been following this "Place an Ubuntu icon/emblem on the system partition" discussion, can you send an email to the list with the details for Breathe to follow the new developments?
<ckontros>  ie: What are the new names for icons? I see "drive-harddisk-root" but from the chat there seems to be other icons that have been chatted about. Correct?
<mac_v> ckontros: right now , no final decision seems to have been taken , its basically a name what we have proposed right now , will try to get Walton to ping in on this :)
<ckontros> mac_v: Ok. With the current chat about a patch seemed like we were gonna maintain it 'till upstream took it.
<mac_v> ckontros: nah ,its been pushed it since its in Papercuts , we have a lot of those just unfinished , so we are just trying to push things along ;)
<SiDi_> dashua: heya
<SiDi_> when you open alvaro's menu in twf, the scroll arrows on top and bottom are light grey when insensitive
<SiDi_> bg[INSENSITIVE] = "#2A2925" in style menu can fix that
<SiDi_> and with the same color for fg insensitive you dont see the arrow :D
<dashua> SiDi_, Thx, try that last push.
<SiDi_> i pushed it to the alvaro branch btw
<dashua> Ok cool
<dashua> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/24552/screenshot_008_2uwB6w.png
<dashua> Still looks good orange :)
<dashua> You can pretty much change it to any color and it maintains versatility
<dashua> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/24555/screenshot_009_5yoiVH.png
<dashua> We can bring Powder back =/
<SiDi_> wow
<dashua> SiDi_, http://paste.ubuntu.com/270270/
<dashua> See if that is better.
<dashua> Commit was lost =/
<SiDi_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/270271/
<SiDi_> dashua: this is hwat i have now
<dashua> Ok, delete the style "menu" you have in that paste and copy/paste the other
<dashua> See if that is better for you.
<SiDi_> damn
<SiDi_> it works well
<dashua> Ok good.
<SiDi_> i'ld just add this      fg[INSENSITIVE] = "#302F2C"
<SiDi_> so the scroll arrow doesnt appear if you're on top / bottom
<dashua> Ok cool.  Looks good.
<dashua> How do the changes look so far?
<SiDi_> great
<SiDi_> i think the gtk theme's ready
<SiDi_> now gotta work on the icons :x
<dashua> What are you going to use?
<SiDi_> i dont know
<SiDi_> probably something elementary based
<dashua> I thought that looked nice.
 * SiDi_ is now watching a movie, see you later
<SiDi_> me too
<dashua> Pz
<SiDi_> but some icons need to be refreshed
<SiDi> dashua: ping
<SiDi> knome: pingÂ²
<SiDi> Ë~Ë
<knome> mÃ¶h
<knome> ;)
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-09-14
<thorwil> morning!
<thorwil> currently on http://www.ubuntu.com/community : Artwork: Put your creativity to work by improving the look and feel of Ubuntu. Help design themes, graphics or backgrounds for the next release.
<thorwil> ouch
<vish> thorwil: heh! exactly what i have copy pasted in my draft!
<thorwil> vish: why? you must be aware of the not-the-defaults issue
<thorwil> vish: so are you working https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityContributePages#Artists ?
<vish> nope not going to do the wiki..
<vish> thorwil: nah , *i* am aware that not many get to work on defaults , but the link is misleading.. i'v been writing this mail and everytime its a tl;dr!  trying to cut it down :s
<vish> thorwil: but we can do some work on the default too!
<thorwil> vish: we've been there. not making clear that it's damn unlikely creates false hopes. people then show bursts of activity and once they realize it won't happen, disappear
<vish> ++
<vish> thorwil: one we need to be clear on what we can help.. i'm looking into places where people can help.. but i might have missed a few..
<thorwil> vish: really don't know where a photo for that Community thing should come from. what do you think, should i offer an illustration instead, of 3 monkeys throwing poop unto a canvas? ^^
<vish> thorwil: i'd say _do not_ fill that wiki until there is a better outline of what the team does.. lets not fool ourselves too ;)
<thorwil> but maybe that would be too many monkeys
<thorwil> vish: if you want an outline of what the team does, the answer is: ""
<vish> thorwil: hence the do not fill :)
<vish> pah! maybe i'll finally finish that mail! its been 2weeks , and every time i look at it for 5mins and get depressed ;p
<thorwil> vish: pastebin it, so i can have a look
<vish> thorwil: neat!
<vish> thorwil: http://paste.ubuntu.com/493494/
<thorwil> vish: amazing how long it took to get to the content of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork and how utterly stupid the first bullet point is
<vish> :)
<thorwil> as if submiiting content to the wiki would be a valuable activity in itself
<thorwil> vish: what's the name of our theme packager?
<vish> thorwil: that draft is a mess , with links and stuff.. not properly formated.. but just a list ..
<vish> thorwil: Andrew SB does a lot of the theme/icon packaging
<thorwil> vish: i'm editing it nonetheless
<vish> sure.. :)
<thorwil> vish: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/ICX9F6sMA243Kt2RBwEF/
<vish> thorwil: hei! you removed the " all-wise thorwil "
 * vish pouts!
<thorwil> vish: would be good to expand on what does work, describing the flickr pool and countdown banners and maybe spreadubuntu (as much as it does have quality issues) as successes
<vish> yeah.. the spreadubuntu is in another mail draft! with just links, i'm collecting.. ;
<thorwil> then one could add a look over the fence, how artwork/design happens in fedora and maybe opensuse
<vish> yup.. the fedora.. gnome artrequest..  there are a lot of links.. but i dont want to become a lt;dr ;p
<vish> trying to split it up into replies/followups
<thorwil> vish: you know, i was kindly ask to tone down the negativity after a few of my welcome messages on the list
<vish> thorwil: yeah.. hence the main need for the  " all-wise thorwil " mention ;)
<thorwil> vish: your tl;dr worries are linked to the lack of quality on the list ... think about it
<vish> yeah.. i'm stuck inbetween yelling at the list and trying to motivate it into doing something ;p
<thorwil> vish: your are no Ben, but i do think a little provocation is called for. hence explicitly proposing closure of list and team ;)
<vish> thorwil: did Being Ben motivated anyone ? and i dont intend to be Ben either ;p  ..
<vish> motivate*
<thorwil> vish: that's why i say a little provocation, as opposed to saying something dumb and provocative
<vish> thorwil: exactly! people can try and be provocative.. but does that translate to action? its tough to get it right..  i'm gathering links to show how to be productive too .. :)
<thorwil> vish: do you intent to mention Elementary, too?
<vish> thorwil: in what sense? Elementary has a different purpose/intent
<thorwil> not sure
 * vish bbiab...
<thorwil> vish: maybe the list/team shouldn't be about starting anything, but rather be a place of contact for those who work on something related, anyway
<thorwil> http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2010/09/14/ubuntu-countdown-10-10/
<vish> thorwil: typo "ans thus "  > and
<thorwil> vish: fixed, thanks!
<vish> np..
<thorwil> vish: the funny thing about the first design is that i considered that concept in one of the earlier rounds. but i did not see a good solution on how to deal with the gaps and filling the dots, so i dropped it
<vish> thorwil: heh, i had that idea too.. i think for last cycle! but i never got to try it :(
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-09-15
<thorwil> anyone aware of a kubuntu countdown banner for 10.10?
<thorwil> http://identitydesigned.com/ink-copywriters/
<thorwil> vish: i think the list turned into modern form of theater now. a dadaistic one
<vish> gosh!!!!!!!!!!
<vish> argH , what the %$#%@@@#!
<vish> gah , i better complete the mail! before i loose all hope!
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-09-16
<cjohnston> Is there anyone around who could take a few minutes and work on updating the Contributions page for the artwork team please? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityContributePages#Artists
<thorwil> cjohnston: i guess the only candidates to do that would be vish or myself, but the so called artwork team has an identity crisis and we both wouldn't feel well filling in things there, where we would have to deliver a positive message
<cjohnston> :-/
<thorwil> cjohnston: i'm sorry if that makes your life more difficult. currently i would suggest to either drop the artists section, or to get someone from the design team to write that
<cjohnston> Ok.. Thanks thorwil
<vish> cjohnston: its not you.. there is no "team" to write about there.. :)
<cjohnston> :-)
<thorwil> cjohnston: btw, is the template there your work? it's quite demanding, but if filled well, it's great.
<cjohnston> It's Jono's
<thorwil> the flickr pool and the countdown banner contests do work and thus are a channel for "artistic" contributions. but that really doesn't fit into what the template and the other sections imply :/
<thorwil> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_7TTtk3cBziw/TI6mGYdihhI/AAAAAAAAAA4/iu18zlVYFqw/s640/deller.jpg
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-09-17
<salty-horse> vish, here?
<vish> salty-horse: o/
<salty-horse> hey, vish. I added a comment on the human theme bug :)
<vish> salty-horse: me too ;)
<vish> salty-horse: i guess you are using it in lucid?  but that would work as well..
<salty-horse> I'm in maverick. so making it black is intentional because the V gets out of the checkbox and then it's less visible as white over gray? that makes sense :)
<salty-horse> all I wanted was a rationale if it's intentional, and I got one :) thanks :)
<vish> np..
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-09-18
<Gopal> hey
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-09-19
<thorwil> good morning!
<thorwil> vish: seen saleel's post on the ayatana list?
<vish> thorwil: hei.. ayatana?
<vish> hmm.!
<vish> oh well , there maybe hope for ubuntu-artowrk!
<thorwil> vish: i'm a bit torn. it's rather off-topic on ayatana. still it warrants a reaction
<vish> yeah, i think i should finally hit the list! and stop procrastinating
<vish> thorwil: sent!
<thorwil> ah, finally!
<vish> i tried ! if no one wants to do anything then  " MEH! " ;p
<vish> oh islington! a fellow omg critique ;)
<thorwil> ?
<thorwil> vish: looked through http://openetherpad.org/UbuntuArtwork
<thorwil> vish: well done. i'd be tempted to drop the "fix the wiki", but then we would have to have something else
<thorwil> vish, doctormo: i can neither login via openid, nor create a new user account on http://art.ubuntu-owl.org
<thorwil> is this intentional? i thought it being a "sandbox" might well encompass pseudo-actual use
<thorwil> if one looks at https://code.launchpad.net/~t-w- , by far the most branches are artwork. i think version-managed artwork/design should be encouraged. combining that with a ccmixter-like site might be tricky, though
<vish> thorwil: thanks.. but atleast some clarity needs to be done with that wiki..
<nils_> thorwil: (=
<thorwil> nils_: o.o
<nils_> http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2010/09/19/ubuntu-artwork-crisis/
<nils_> (=
<thorwil> oh, i wrote that? how did that happen?
<nils_> gg
<troy_s> thorwil: Interesting post. You should probably elaborate.
<thorwil> troy_s: already took me long and links to 2 other posts that are not exactly short
<thorwil> troy_s: but what exactly should i elaborate on?
<troy_s> thorwil: Although much of what Saleel suggests is actually in just about every single graphic design tome available. Namely, perhaps, the most important aspect of nailing down _just who is in creative control_. Often, sadly, there isn't someone. The ultimate arbitrator.
<troy_s> thorwil: I'd think there is pretty good value there in the "What I have learnt" approach that Saleel outlined.
<nils_>  Who now confirms(approves) what wall-paper will be by default?
<troy_s> nils_: As it always has been.
<troy_s> nils_: Although the machinations are often dark alchemy.
<troy_s> nils_: The main issue there is likely much more complicated than what many believe to be a simple path.
<nils_> lol
<nils_> (
<troy_s> nils_: To be entirely fair, though, collaborative creative work still is a new frontier. In fact, I have yet to be able to cite a successful campaign within the culture.
<nils_> Strange...
<troy_s> nils_: Is it?
<nils_> Such not clear process
<troy_s> nils_: Do you believe it is about process?
<nils_>  Anything
<troy_s> nils_: I believe that at least part of the issue is the inability to yield. I can't say I see a reason to _not_ yield.
<nils_> To me it was simple interestingly as introduction process now is realised
<troy_s> nils_: Sorry. Lost me.
<nils_> So for whom all the same last solving word?
<nils_> )
<nils_> oh
<nils_> my bad eng
<nils_> (=
<nils_> How it is possible to participate in artwork?
<vish> thorwil: "UA crisis!" nice one ;)
<vish> nils_: what artwork are you referring to?
<troy_s> vish: Greets.
<vish> troy_s: hey! despite warnings , it just had to hit send on that mail ! :(
<vish> ;)
<troy_s> vish: LOL.
<troy_s> vish: Well... it is likely only ending up in about two people's spam box, so no loss.
<vish> hehe! well , i can always say.. i tried ;)
<troy_s> vish: You either have a rabble of folks with ... questionable ... thinking or ... well I yet to see the alternate.
<nils_> vish: It is a lot of than. I the artist, the schedule, the sculptor.
<vish> nils_: well , for starters , i suggest joining the mailing list and taking part in the conversation..
<nils_> thank
<vish> troy_s: hmm , well i do hope you can help guide us as busy as you can get.. ;)
<troy_s> troy_s: If I had an answer, I'd happily share it.
<vish> hehe ,^ signs of getting too old! talking to oneself ;p
<troy_s> vish: Perfect
<troy_s> vish: You would be correct. LOL.
<troy_s> vish: I suppose figuring out what you want to accomplish?
<vish> yea! thats the first part!
<vish> either we do some work.. it doesnt have to be in Ubuntu alone.. there are other derivatives
<vish> troy_s: Xubuntu *wants* help
<vish> and i just noticed Edubuntu also wants help
<troy_s> vish: Then find the person that is responsible for it. And that means, in no uncertain terms, the final arbitrator.
<vish> troy_s: already did :)
<vish> i spoke to the xubuntu team and they said they need help
<troy_s> vish: That may very well also be unfortunate if the folks creating work disagree with the vision. See Ubuntu for gosh knows how long (and now likely has moved up the food chain to poor chaotic)
<vish> the edubuntu team comment is from thorwil's psot
<troy_s> vish: "They" is the stuffs of alien and war movies. Not a very good term.
<vish> well , the team leaders.. the whatever they are called.. but Xubuntu wants to be helped ;)
<troy_s> vish: I won't name the project, but at one point everyone agreed that X was the creative decision maker - the art director if you will. There was a sizable chunk of effort put into something. When the work was delivered, it turned out that for all of the apathy, A, B, C, D, E, F, and G actually wanted to participate (well past that point) and that in fact, X wasn't in control as much as lackey creative types 1, 2, 3 needed.
<troy_s> vish: There is a _very_ good set of advice set out by Oldach and a few others. Make the risk clear. Up front. And get that much needed agreement long before a single pencil hits paper or a single pixel is pushed.
<vish> troy_s: well , i believe i know which project that is.. but those aernt in full control now.. or atleast i know of.. lets see though..
<troy_s> vish: Different project perhaps. All good intentions, but a distinct chunk of apathy up and until the delivery.
 * thorwil approves vish's comment
<thorwil> vish: add me to which list?
<vish> thorwil: which list?
<thorwil> vish: exactly. your comment on my blog
<vish> thorwil: heh! that was in reply to jonathan ;p
<thorwil> vish: nevermind, i didn't see the nesting
<vish> adding "edubuntu"
<thorwil> bloody inkscape likes to freeze in some cases, where you want to scale something you imported from another svg file ...
<thorwil> http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2010/09/19/itis-linux/
<troy_s> thorwil: What face is that?
<thorwil> troy_s: beziera customa from the scratch foundry
<thorwil> good night!
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-09-15
<iainfarrell> it's noisy in here these days ;)
<thorwil> iainfarrell: now it is, being all your fault. stop flooding!
<iainfarrell> thorwil, ha, sorry :)
<iainfarrell> thorwil, how are you? Enjoyed seeing the friendly stuff coming together
<thorwil> iainfarrell: i'm ok, thanks. seems you're not up-to-date on that, as the friendly stuff did not come together
<iainfarrell> oh
<iainfarrell> I am well out then
<iainfarrell> the blog posts early on looked great
<iainfarrell> seeing it moving on
<iainfarrell> did it not happen in the end?
<thorwil> iainfarrell: Marcus wanted the friendly symbol i ended up with in the same size and positions as the usual CoF. i really hated how that comes out, making the symbol look so thin and weak, so i refused to deliver, as i think just using the CoF is superior, then
<iainfarrell> thorwil, Ahh I see
<thorwil> this exercise left everyone unhappy, but happily i can't care about it much due to real live worries :)
<iainfarrell> thorwil, I'm not sure if that's better or not :)
<iainfarrell> hope you're ok
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-09-17
<louisdk> Hi :)
<louisdk> Hi. Anybody here?
<troy_s> louisdk: What do you need?
<louisdk> I just want to draw attention to this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/851207 - See the attracted screenshot: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/80010414/11.04-terminal.png
<ubot2`> Ubuntu bug 851207 in ubuntu "Gnome Terminal tabs are not black in 11.10" [Undecided,New]
<troy_s> louisdk: This is only a community channel.
<louisdk> Ok. Any way that I can draw attention to the design team about my bug report? What about the Ubuntu Artwork mailing list?
<troy_s> louisdk: Good luck with that.
<troy_s> louisdk: There are two things too... 1) You assume it is a bug and not by design 2) Other things higher up food chain to worry about.
<louisdk> troy_s: Looks like Ubuntu is caring most about it's users and their bug reports.
<troy_s> louisdk: Uh... sure.
#ubuntu-artwork 2012-09-12
<hakermania> Hello? How many are you in total? 6? Do you know a good place where I can request for an artist to do some icons for our Open Source Application (Wallch) ?
<hakermania> PING EVERYBODY
<hakermania> POKE EVERYBODY
<hakermania> DOES ANYBODY HEAR MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE?
<bosky> hello all. just a quick question...was LAB Analysis used in the making of the Default Ubuntu wp?
<hakermania> bosky, I was here from 21:00 UTC+3 (4.5 hours now) and I haven't got any answers
<hakermania> the channel seems to be dead
<bosky> fair enough...thanks for that :)
<bosky> thank-you for the response hakermania. even though this channel appears dead maybe it should be brought back to life with a vengeance> As Arnie said... I'll be back. Cheers everyone.
<hakermania> bosky: bye!
#ubuntu-artwork 2012-09-13
<bosky> hello all. could anyone tell me whether or not LAB Analysis in GIMP was used to make the Ubuntu default wp?
<bosky> hello mr farrell ...do you know whether or not LAB Analysis ( elsamuko-lab-analysis.c) was used in the default Ubuntu wp? :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2012-09-16
<dave5992012> Hey there you all Hi from canada
<dave5992012> his project?ow do I join and submit art to th
