#xubuntu-devel 2011-01-10
<charlie-tca> Good morning
#xubuntu-devel 2011-01-11
<micahg> charlie-tca: are you back?
<charlie-tca> sort of
<charlie-tca> I guess I am in and out right now
<micahg> charlie-tca: ok, I wanted to poke you about bugs targeted to 10.04.2
<charlie-tca> Okiedokey
<charlie-tca> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/577043
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 577043 in openoffice.org (Ubuntu) "[upstream] [3.2.1] Cannot print document including OTF. Upgrade to upsteam version (fix included)" [Medium,Triaged]
<charlie-tca> is milestoned for 10.04.2 by pitti
<micahg> charlie-tca: I thought that openoffice wasn't on the xubuntu CD
<charlie-tca> it isn't, but the user installed it
<micahg> charlie-tca: we don't have to worry about it then, that's for the -desktop team
<charlie-tca> I went through over 100 bugs against lucid, and found that one
<micahg> charlie-tca: I'm more concerned about the apps on the CD that will be on the images that are spun
<charlie-tca> The only question in my mind is whether or not goffice will get updated on the cd
<micahg> charlie-tca: what do you mean updated?
<charlie-tca> There was a new version after lucid came out
<micahg> we don't update stable releases unless there's an exception
<charlie-tca> But out of all the bugs filed, nothing appears critical to the update, they have all been fixed, so cutting the new image will have them
<charlie-tca> We apply 257 upgrades after a person installs 10.04 now, for 246MB of archives
<micahg> charlie-tca: ok, great, thanks
<charlie-tca> thank you for checking
<micahg> np
<charlie-tca> micahg: what about updated docs?
<micahg> charlie-tca: is that on the CD?
<charlie-tca> yup, since they are available when using the live cd
<micahg> charlie-tca: ok, we should get that in by 1/20 then
<charlie-tca> I know Daniel been trying to get them done, I will check with him on status
#xubuntu-devel 2011-01-13
<ochosi> mr_pouit: hm, the xfce-panel-systray still doesn't work great
<ochosi> mr_pouit: and the bloody nm-applet is killed by update-manager after every update/upgrade :(
<mr_pouit> mmh
<mr_pouit> I think it's caused by an option
<ochosi> what is caused by an option?
<mr_pouit> if I check "show borders" for the systray, I still have some bugs (e.g. xfpm doesn't show)
<mr_pouit> (i'm not sure of the exact option label)
<ochosi> mhm
<ochosi> we can try to set whatever works better by default
<ochosi> but i kinda hope it gets fixed before natty
<mr_pouit> if it's fixed upstream, yeah ;-)
<ochosi> hm, maybe. i vaguely remember nick talking about some additional fixes in the systray in git
<ochosi> (wrt gnome-power-manager iirc)
<mr_pouit> "Restart tray allocation if number of rows overflows (bug #7055)."
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 7055 in base-config (Ubuntu) "strange loss of sources.list" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/7055
<mr_pouit> "Restart tray allocation if number of rows overflows (bug #7055)."
<mr_pouit> ubottu: stupid
<ubottu> The only dumb or stupid question is the one not asked. Please do not tell people off for asking something, just because it seems simple or obvious to you -- we discourage this attitude in all our channels.
<mr_pouit> ochosi: that's all
<ochosi> hm
<ochosi> maybe i should report it then
<mr_pouit> ochosi: there are several commits improving systray debugging
<mr_pouit> so if you report something, you should build the panel from git first
<ochosi> awwh...
<ochosi> not sure if i have time for that now
<mr_pouit> and run it with PANEL_DEBUG=systray
<mr_pouit> ;P
<ochosi> you're not using the panel from git, are you?
<mr_pouit> no :>
<ochosi> :D
<mr_pouit> I can put it in my ppa if you want
<ochosi> yeah, that would be nice
<ochosi> i guess that would lower the threshold of testing/debugging it immensly :)
<mr_pouit> I'll try to do that this evening
<ochosi> cool, feel free to ping me about it
<mr_pouit> about nm-applet, I don't know, try to file a bug maybe
<ochosi> yeah, i'll have a look
<mr_pouit> (against network-manager-applet or update-manager)
<ochosi> this bug has been around for all of alpha1 now
<mr_pouit> then maybe it's already known ;-)
<ochosi> btw what do you think of changing the default color-scheme of xfce4-terminal
<ochosi> yeah, that's what i thought :)
<ochosi> those two are very common components
<ochosi> especially since the app-center doesn't do updates/upgrades yet
<ochosi> ooops, "software-center", not "app-center" :)
<mr_pouit> ochosi: how would xfce4-terminal look like?
<ochosi> hm, e.g. white bg
<ochosi> that would make the scrollbar-bg feel more integrated
<ochosi> just not sure, we never tried changing the default colors of the term and people might be particular about term-colors
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu Community Meeting today at 19:00 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting
<micahg> charlie-tca: I won't be making the meeting today
<charlie-tca> Okay, thanks. Any updates?
<micahg> charlie-tca: just we need to get anything for 10.04.2 into -proposed by next thursday, so docs need a push
<charlie-tca> Okay, we will push it then. Thanks
<micahg> charlie-tca: I can upload when it's ready, just ping me
<micahg> charlie-tca: BTW, in general SRUs need to be fixed in dev release first, but I'm wondering what to do in this case since I'm assuming the docs are being updated just for Lucid, right>
<charlie-tca> as far as I know, we want the updated docs in lucid, yes.
<micahg> charlie-tca: what I mean is that they'll be Lucid specific
<charlie-tca> Maverick is being updated, but won't be pushed, I think.
<charlie-tca> natty will have updated docs, but they don't come in until rc, normally
<micahg> charlie-tca: no point to updating maverick if we won't push since natty has 4.8pre
<charlie-tca> seems like it is part of the process. They have to be updated in sequence, as I understand it
<micahg> charlie-tca: but we could push since it's just docs
<charlie-tca> And, we might. It seems like a lot of work to get them done, it would be a shame to think it is a waste of time
<charlie-tca> but to get updated docs in 10.04.2, we can't wait for natty 
<micahg> charlie-tca: I can version the uploads so they won't break upgrades, that's not an issue, but if they're version specific, we can do them out of order
<charlie-tca> I will get with Daniel and find out where we are now.
<micahg> charlie-tca: ok, I'll look for the meeting notes later
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu community meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 30 minutes. Everyone is invited to attend.
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit, cody-somerville, ochosi, pleia2 : meeting?
<pleia2> charlie-tca: swamped at work, still waiting on a reply from cody-somerville 
<charlie-tca> thank you, pleia2 
<charlie-tca> cody-somerville: you are holding up the website now!
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: forgot to ask, is it possible to have the new theme, panels, icons, and font in alpha2 ?
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: yeah sure, I'll upload that next week, to give some time to ochosi to fix a few issues
<charlie-tca> thanks!
<cody-somerville> pleia2, whats your e-mail address?
 * charlie-tca thanks cody-somerville 
<pleia2> cody-somerville: lyz@ubuntu.com
<pleia2> the email was the one I sent on 12/16 "Xubuntu.org changes"
<cody-somerville> pleia2, I created you an account on the website.
<cody-somerville> pleia2, You should get an e-mail with details.
<pleia2> thank you :)
<ochosi> charlie-tca: sorry, thought i could be here for the team meeting but in the end didn't make it
<charlie-tca> no problem
<ochosi> have to read up on the meeting
<ochosi> did anything noteworthy happen with regards to artwork?
<charlie-tca> no, but I talked to thorwil in #ubuntu-artwork. He never got your email
<ochosi> rly?
<ochosi> weird
<ochosi> maybe his isp blocked my address
<charlie-tca> yeah, he is willing to discuss things, though. If we ever get you two together
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> sure, we will
<ochosi> hm, shouldn't the logs be here? http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/01/13/%23ubuntu-co-meeting.html
<pleia2> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/01/13/%23ubuntu-meeting.html
<pleia2> no -co
<ochosi> thanks pleia2 :)
<pleia2> the footer on xubuntu.org has been updated to 2011!
 * pleia2 makes progress :)
<charlie-tca> Yay!
<charlie-tca> gaining, a little bit at a time :-)
<pleia2> am at work so I'll have to dig in more this evening
<charlie-tca> Thanks for doing that
<ochosi> great stuff pleia2 
<ochosi> pleia2: does this mean we can also have up-to-date screenshots for natty? :D
<charlie-tca> Hm, should we have them before the release?
<ochosi> i don't see why not
<ochosi> we could have them after alpha2
<ochosi> cause then the new theme and all that should be set by default
<charlie-tca> true, but we do have to remember the release is never final until we get there
<pleia2> ochosi: yes :)
<pleia2> what are the current ones? I can make some maverick ones if we think it's worth the time
<ochosi> charlie-tca: sure, but i think screenshots could motivate people to do actual testing
<charlie-tca> really? Then it would be good
<ochosi> pleia2: hm, well yeah, the theme changed so maverick did look different
<charlie-tca> Aren't the shots on there lucid now?
<charlie-tca> dark background
<pleia2> and need to fix the broken link on /help
<ochosi> yeah, the screenshots are lucid, or at least that's what lucid looked like
<ochosi> pleia2: still some time until natty gets released, maybe it's worth to update the shots
<ochosi> pleia2: also (if you feel motivated): a "history" of xubuntu's look would be nice
<pleia2> hmm, we could do that
<ochosi> brb
 * charlie-tca doesn't really know much about the website, but xubuntu never had the artwork close to ready so early in the cycle
<ochosi> charlie-tca: i take that as a compliment ;)
<ochosi> btw, are any of you using/testing natty currently?
<ochosi> cause i can't reproduce the workspace-switcher bug beardygnome reported on the ml
<charlie-tca> yes, I have natty installed
<charlie-tca> that was in maverick, right/
<ochosi> hm, he tested it in maverick?
<charlie-tca> wait, was that the one about workspaces looking the same color as the panel?
<ochosi> yes
<charlie-tca> That's because if there are no launchers, the workspaces are the same color. There are lighter colored dividers between them, here
<ochosi> if you look at this screenshot, the bg-color of the workspaces is slightly different from the panel: http://imagebin.org/132526
<charlie-tca> oops
<charlie-tca> I was wrong. If the workspaces in natty are a separate panel, it matches the top panel. If added to it, they are a lot darker than the panel
<ochosi> it's maybe not extremely obvious, but in beardygnome's screenshot it looked different
<charlie-tca> Could it be his monitor?
<ochosi> charlie-tca: ok, thanks for testing! i'll reply back with the screenshot then
<ochosi> hmm, good question. i guess he maybe didn't install the latest revision
<charlie-tca> that image shows it darker, with the divider. What about a line on each end?
<ochosi> it's annoying that the dictionary-plugin and the verve-plugin bugs are not fixed yet :( (and i'm not sure whether they're fixable from my side)
<charlie-tca> I don't understand... If I can see a separate space, that usually works for me
<charlie-tca> I thought verve was working now
<ochosi> yeah, i think beardygnome would be fine with what we can see on the screenshot
<ochosi> hm, well, verve has a weird bug
<ochosi> it doesn't work when it has the focus 
<ochosi> *the first time*
<ochosi> after having lost the focus for the first time it works
<charlie-tca> heh, not much use if it doesn't have focus, is it lol
<ochosi> so i don't think i can fix it by theming it
<ochosi> yeah :(
<ochosi> but if i try to set the text-color to black it will look weird when you mark/highlight the text
<ochosi> cause then it should be nearly white
<charlie-tca> yeah
<ochosi> but dict is even a bit more annoying, it doesn't even work the second time
<charlie-tca> I know :-(
<ochosi> i'll try to dip my toes into the source again
<ochosi> but i can't promise anything
<ochosi> might need some upstream-fix
<charlie-tca> that's the one I use, too. Oh well, goes with the weather plugin, I guess
<ochosi> not sure we'll get that in time for natty
<charlie-tca> hm, we will just have to watch for the bug reports
<ochosi> weather-plugin also doesn't work?
<charlie-tca> no, it and the timer just remove themselves as soon as they are added
<charlie-tca> that's upstream
<ochosi> awwhh. i really loved and used that one
<ochosi> xfce4-terminal still has that lousy vte-regression mr_pouit :/
<ochosi> brb
#xubuntu-devel 2011-01-14
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<ochosi> hi
#xubuntu-devel 2011-01-15
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: xarchiver is no longer part of Xfce. I don't know how to change the upstream from Xfce to Sourceforge. 
<charlie-tca> Do you know how to unlink from xfce and link to SourceForge?
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: I got it changed. Thanks anyway
#xubuntu-devel 2011-01-16
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<charlie-tca> Xfce 4.8 officially released!
<pleia2> woohoo!
#xubuntu-devel 2012-01-09
<knome> Unit193, check your wikipage
<micahg> so, meeting at 17:00?
<knome> yeah. i'm not sure i can attend, but i completely think we should keep that meeting whatsoever
<knome> somebody else who could chair that if i'm not available?
<knome> micahg, you still therE?
<knome> micahg, there seems to be a TB meeting at jan 12, 21UTC
<knome> micahg, could you make it?
<knome> maybe-ubiquity is most probably landing in precise for xubuntu :)
<micahg> knome: idk, maybe
<knome> ok
<knome> i sent the LTS proposal for the TB
<knome> and added the item to the agenda
<knome> :)
<knome> ok, maybe-ubiquity should be fixed. to all testers: can you check all the images tomorrow and see if they look fine
<micahg> knome: BTW, I don't think we've had images since Dec 20
<micahg> bbl
<knome> huh?
<knome> why is that?
<astraljava> I don't understand. They're there.
<knome> me neither
<knome> :)
<knome> pleia2, ?
<micahg> knome: I don't see the images on cdimage.u.c
<micahg> knome: BTW, at 18:00 I probably cannot attend
<micahg> but again, not necessary
<ochosi> micahg: what about the thunderbird-bug?
<micahg> ochosi: will try to upstream it later
<ochosi> k :)
<ochosi> micahg: "later" as in "later today"?
<micahg> we'll see :)
<ochosi> k :)
<astraljava> micahg: I still don't understand: http://paste.ubuntu.com/798202/
<micahg> idk
<nanotube> feature suggestion: put a link to the sound panel within the main settings manager. as it is, it's only accessible via the sound panel applet...
<ochosi> nanotube: you mean the mixer? (it's in multimedia)
<nanotube> i mean, the sound config panel you open when you click the speaker icon in panel, and go to 'sound settings...'
<ochosi> yeah, but that's xfce4-mixer, it's also in the menu in multimedia > mixer
<ochosi> but i agree that some people (especially coming from the windows-world) would expect it to be in the settings-manager
<ochosi> it kinda makes more sense there
<nanotube> hm, multimedia -> mixer looks different than that sound settings panel
<nanotube> windows-world, kde-world, or gnome-world :)
<ochosi> rly? maybe i modified my installation too much :) mind to take a screenshot for me?
<nanotube> ochosi: sure. just a sec.
<nanotube> http://imgur.com/9IV6r
<nanotube> sound at top, mixer at bottom
<ochosi> is this a standard xubuntu install?
<ochosi> or did you have something else installed before (e.g. ubuntu)
<mr_pouit> that's either "gnome-volume-control --page=applications" or "gnome-control-center sound"
<mr_pouit> xfce4-mixer is tried after these two
<ochosi> yup, so it's not part of the default install
<mr_pouit> indeed
<ochosi> i mean i'm not really opposed to putting the mixer in the settings
<ochosi> it's kinda where it belongs
<ochosi> but we should strive not to clutter the settings-manager too much
<ochosi> otherwise it becomes useless
<charlie-tca> For whoever is chairing the meeting today; I can't make it at 18:00 UTC
<charlie-tca> However, testing is ongoing. I test the images daily, for the most part. Would be nice to have a few more people involved in that. Results are always posted at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/204/builds
<Unit193> knome: Thanks a ton!
<Unit193> charlie-tca: GridCube and I are still doing them (just later than you it seems)
<charlie-tca> you documented a couple, but I have not seen very many on the tracker from either of you
<charlie-tca> Even if they are the same installs, they need to be documented, please.
<Unit193> Hmm.... I know I've done more than a few, and I have been trying to put them on (I could be doing that wrong I guess). I do them later in the day EST if that counts
<charlie-tca> Anytime is fine. I will try to remember to look at the tracker more often. Maybe I missed them.
<charlie-tca> Not being able to get reports hurts. It makes it vey much more difficult to tell what is being done.
<Unit193> When is it too late to run them?
<nanotube> ochosi: it is an apt-get install xubuntu-desktop on top of ubuntu :)
<nanotube> so is the 'sound' panel from gnome? and the mixer from xfce?
<charlie-tca> It is too late when the new image posts at http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/ . If no new image goes up, it keeps the previous test results.
<charlie-tca> Unit193: I will ask stgrabber to let me access the reports, then maybe we can figure what is really happening.
<ochosi> nanotube: yes
<Unit193> That'd be awesome, but it'd be nice if more could do it (see if I'm doing something wrong. I don't like the new system so much, but I do try)
<charlie-tca> I know that feeling, too. It is very difficult when we can't see things for more than a few hours at a day.
<charlie-tca> I do plan on moving my test schedule to the wiki, for all to see and use. It makes sense now that we are tracking using the qa tracker.
<ochosi> reminder: meeting in ~15min
<nanotube> ochosi: well... fwiw that gnome panel has a lot more options than the xfce panel. :) for one, it lets me choose hdmi output. the other day some guy came in and asked about setting hdmi output, i pointed him to the panel and he said 'i can't see anything like that here'... 
<nanotube> if i'd known it was a gnome panel, i'd have told him heh
<ochosi> nanotube: but it's deprecated (at least gnome2 panel)
<ochosi> personally i've never missed anything in the panel
<ochosi> brb
<nanotube> well, it came with oneiric install... so it can't be that deprecated :) (and iirc, it looked exactly the same from the ubuntu/unity side, so it must be a gnome3 panel, because i'm sure oneiric doesn't have gnome2)
<ochosi> notice: i'll conduct the meeting in absence of knome today
<ochosi> since it's my first time, feel free to let me know if i miss something or make a mistake (e.g. charlie-tca)
<ochosi> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jan  9 18:01:13 2012 UTC.  The chair is ochosi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<ochosi> since we have no business from last time, i'll go straight to the team updates
<ochosi> #topic Packaging and Development
<ochosi> micahg, mr_pouit: are you here?
<mr_pouit> I just arrived home, so I'm nto ready, sorry :<
<ochosi> mr_pouit: shall we get back to this topic later?
<ochosi> mr_pouit: or: when would you be ready?
<mr_pouit> I don't have much to say anyway: the usual amount of bugfix uploads this week
<ochosi> shall i say something about xfdesktop?
<mr_pouit> (I need some testing to be done, so I need to follow up by mail on xubuntu-devel)
<mr_pouit> mmh, as you wish
<ochosi> ok, you can still post to the ml
<ochosi> #info mr_pouit has applied some long-standing patches from bugzilla.xfce.org to xfdesktop for precise
<ochosi> #info since it isn't maintained upstream at the moment (devs are waiting for the desktop to become a thunar-extension) it makes sense to patch it for xubuntu downstream
<ochosi> #info among the patches is e.g. (rudimentary) thumbnail-support for the desktop
<ochosi> micahg: anything from your side?
<micahg> not really
<ochosi> ok, then let's move on
<ochosi> #topic Bug Triage, Testing and Documentation
<ochosi> charlie-tca: any updates from your side?
<ochosi> Unit193: anything from testing?
<micahg> ochosi: see backscroll before the meeting
<ochosi> micahg: thanks, missed that
<knome> o/
<ochosi> #info testing is ongoing, charlie-tca tests the images daily. it would be nice to have more people involved in that
<ochosi> #chair knome 
<meetingology> Current chairs: knome ochosi
<Unit193> \o
<ochosi> #link Results are always posted at  http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/204/builds
<ochosi> Unit193: any updates from your side? (feel free to use #info)
<knome> #info maybe-ubiquity will land on images tomorrow, testers note: please check if everything looks as should
<Unit193> Currectly too big to fit on a CD
<Unit193> *Currently
<knome> yeah, but isn't that known?
<Unit193> Should be
<knome> micahg asked if that's a problem for anybody, and nobody said anything
<knome> it's because python stuff
<knome> ochosi, can you continue chairing for a bit more? :)
<ochosi> sure
<knome> thanks
<ochosi> np
<ochosi> #info Xfce have launched new documentation in a wiki (docs.xfce.org)
<ochosi> #info From Xfce 4.10 onwards the help-button will point there, which will also mean no docs for people who are offline
<ochosi> #link the docs are already accessible at http://docs.xfce.org/
<ochosi> #info it would be nice if people from Xubuntu could also contribute
<ochosi> #topic Marketing, Artwork and Website
<ochosi> pleia2: you there?
<pleia2> #info we're going to hold off on completing every single content update before going live
<pleia2> #info there are still some struture things knome is working through, once those are done we should be in a position to launch the new wordpress site
<pleia2> we should plan some time soon to review the final structure things
<ochosi> do you want to send an email to the ml for that?
<knome> i added some comments to the about/-page draft today
<ochosi> i mean possibly that should already contain a datetime for the review
<pleia2> we still need to get through some of the items we discussed
<pleia2> once we're finished with all those we can toss it to the list for final final review :)
<ochosi> ok, sounds good
<ochosi> feel free to add an #action for yourselves if you feel like it (knome,pleia2)
<pleia2> #action pleia2 to review outstanding structure issues and follow-up with knome 
<meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 to review outstanding structure issues and follow-up with knome
<ochosi> ok, in terms of artwork there aren't really big news from my side
<knome> well, maybe-ubiquity is in ;)
<ochosi> #info ochosi plans to do a sprint to port finish porting Bluebird to gtk3 in early february
<knome> that should improve the artwork xp
<ochosi> true
<ochosi> although i haven't seen it yet :)
<knome> it should be looking the same as the ubuntu livecd boot process does
<ochosi> never seen that :}
<knome> hehe, me neither, but some testers maybe
<ochosi> ok, i think that's about it from this section
<ochosi> #topic General updates
<ochosi> anyone? ^
<knome> #info Xubuntu LTS plan forwarded to Technical Board
<knome> i suppose that's it :)
<ochosi> k :)
<knome> i can take over now
<knome> #topic Announcements
<ochosi> ok, go ahead
<knome> #subtopic maybe-ubiquity
<knome> #info maybe-ubiquity has landed in Precise Pangolin images, thanks to cjwatson. Testers: Please test all the images ASAP and see if everything looks okay.
<knome> #topic Other business
<knome> #subtopic Review blueprints that need community approval
<knome> #info New wallpaper: Some drafts still at http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_wall/, any feedback appreciated
<ochosi> should we vote on the blueprint?
<ochosi> zebra is really really flashy :)
<knome> probably not yet, as there isn't any serious proposals
<madnick> i like zebra
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> i thought we have to vote on whether there'll be a new wp in general :)
<knome> hehe, right
<knome> #vote New wallpaper: Yay (+1) or nay (-1)
<meetingology> Please vote on: New wallpaper: Yay (+1) or nay (-1)
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<knome> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from knome
<ochosi> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from ochosi
<madnick> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from madnick
<pleia2> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
<knome> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: New wallpaper: Yay (+1) or nay (-1)
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<micahg> +0
<knome> heh
<knome> :)
<knome> too late
<knome> #info: Ubiquity "application sets": https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Precise/UbiquityApplicationSets has the spec
<ochosi> again: does this really need "approval" (as in: vote)?
<knome> yeah, i thought we could do that
<ochosi> k :)
<micahg> sorry, still getting used to IRC on my phone
<knome> #vote Ubiquity "application sets" as described in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Precise/UbiquityApplicationSets: Yay (+1) or nay (1
<meetingology> Please vote on: Ubiquity "application sets" as described in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Precise/UbiquityApplicationSets: Yay (+1) or nay (1
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<knome> frrt
<knome> yeah -1 for nay
<knome> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from knome
<ochosi> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from ochosi
<micahg> -1, seems like more work than it's worth
<meetingology> -1, seems like more work than it's worth received from micahg
<ochosi> micahg: what has to be done exactly?
<knome> micahg, i'm working on it with stgraber who created this feature in the first place, and we can most probably cooperate much with ubuntu studio too
<micahg> idk, I just don't see those delineations as useful to xubuntu
<knome> i think accessible vs. normal is quite a good idea
<knome> if it proves to be too much work, we'll vote again, ok? :)
<ochosi> also: xfce-only/slim vs. xubuntu-comfy/normal
<knome> mm, yeah
<knome> i mean, of course there has to be constant evaluation against things
<knome> anyway, is there something else?
<knome> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Ubiquity "application sets" as described in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Precise/UbiquityApplicationSets: Yay (+1) or nay (1
<meetingology> Votes for:2 Votes against:1 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<knome> #action knome to keep on investigating stuff under constant evaluation - if it proves to be a bit too much work, vote again
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to keep on investigating stuff under constant evaluation - if it proves to be a bit too much work, vote again
<knome> #subtopic Default shortcut keys: Sysi not available, will carry on one more time :)
<knome> #subtopic Discussion and guidance on other blueprints
<knome> anybody?
<knome> #subtopic Open action items from previous meetings
<knome> #action GridGube to gather a list of problems with QA tracker and get back to knome/QA tracker responsibles 
<meetingology> ACTION: GridGube to gather a list of problems with QA tracker and get back to knome/QA tracker responsibles
<knome> #action micahg or mr_pouit to confirm xfce package versions in precise as soon as possible 
<meetingology> ACTION: micahg or mr_pouit to confirm xfce package versions in precise as soon as possible
<knome> #action micahg to look at the thunderbird button issue 
<meetingology> ACTION: micahg to look at the thunderbird button issue
<knome> #action     ochosi to investigate some cherry-picking from xfce upstream to ubuntu 
<meetingology> ACTION: ochosi to investigate some cherry-picking from xfce upstream to ubuntu
<knome> pleia2, new sticker design is at wiki?
<pleia2> knome: unfortunately the design didn't come out perfect on the stickers
<knome> oh, okay
<knome> so no need to copy the action item either :(
<knome> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jan  9 18:49:44 2012 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2012/xubuntu-devel.2012-01-09-18.01.moin.txt
<knome> ugh
<knome> ochosi, as usually, i can take care of the minutes if you don't specifically want to do it ;))
<madnick> good night :)
<Unit193> Good night
<knome> night madnick 
<knome> bah, ubuntu wiki is damn slow again
<Unit193> s/again/still/g
<knome> minutes are up
<pleia2> I should tweet meeting minutes
 * pleia2 does that
<knome> thanks
<nanotube> Unit193: no need for the g, there's only one occurrence of 'again' :)
<ochosi> knome: if you can do the minutes, that'd be great
<knome> ochosi, done already
<ochosi> ty
<ochosi> btw, my cherry-picking-thing pends on knowing what version of xfce we'll ship
<ochosi> cause if they decide to do a quick release...
<mr_pouit> they'd have to do pre-releases first
<mr_pouit> or release everything untested :)
<mr_pouit> so imho you can assume 4.8
<ochosi> what's your opinion on cherry-picking?
<mr_pouit> ideally, small, bugfix, one-single feature changes ;-)
<knome> i don't like cherries much, what about strawberries?
<mr_pouit> ahah
<mr_pouit> as long as there's not "rewrite $stuff" in the commit log :p
<knome> :P
<micahg> knome: can you join #ubuntu-meeting?
<charlie-tca> knome: They are looking for you in #ubuntu-meeting for technical board review of Xubuntu LTS app
<knome> yay
<Unit193> Go well?
<knome> accepted
<Unit193> Anything else of note?
<knome> not really
<knome> no votes against
<Unit193> Great!
<charlie-tca> Okay, going now and rest. See all you good people tomorrow :)
<knome> i'm off, good night/day all and see you later :)
<sejens> Having problems installing with xubuntu64 11.10 + jdk-7u1-nb-7_0_1-linux-ml.sh. Anyone want to help?
<sejens> Sorry... jdk-7u2-nb-7_1-linux-ml.sh
<sejens> This is what happens:
<micahg> ok, night everyone
<Unit193> Good night, micahg 
<micahg> sejens: you probably want #xubuntu
<sejens> Ok, thank you!
#xubuntu-devel 2012-01-10
<nanotube> quick suggestion - 'activate focus stealing prevention' in 'windows manager tweaks' should be default.
<nanotube> ok, i take that back. because it stops even applications i start deliberately from going to the front.
<nanotube> i guess that makes sense, since it is programmatically hard to determine if something is being opened by me right now, or spawned by something else...
<nanotube> but yea, i take it back. :)
<Unit193> You're funny...
<nanotube> haha yea sometimes. :) i was all like omg, focus stealing prevention, that sounds awesome!
<nanotube> then i go ctl-alt-f and ctl-alt-t to start a browser window or terminal, or click a link in xchat irc... and it goes to the back. and i'm like omg whyyyy? :)
<nanotube> and thus ended by brief love affair with focus stealing prevention. :)
<knome> madnick, ? :)
<madnick> knome: 
<knome> want to go through some theming stuff today?
<madnick> knome: sorry, i will not be home today
<knome> no problem
<madnick> but tommorrow is a good day
<knome> i'm not sure how well that works for me, but might
<madnick> okay
<olbi> hello
<olbi> is there on site listed default apps in Xubuntu 12.04?
<knome> no. though nothing critical is changing
<olbi> ok, I have updated wiki sites with newest information :)
<olbi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu
<knome> mr_pouit, you there?
<knome> what do you people think: how often do people need a spreadsheet editor? do you think it's worth keeping on in the default installation, or could we do well without one?
<olbi> we should make DVD
<olbi> with LibreOffice
<knome> disagree with that, but you are free to undertake the big xubuntu dvd project ;)
<olbi> :D
<olbi> Ubuntu has LO, Kubuntu has LO too, why Xubuntu couldnt have too :]
<mr_pouit> one reason is cd space =]
<mr_pouit> (e.g. more apps included by default => less language packs available by default)
<olbi> you want allways keep on CD? In times where DVD is same price and speed like CD? It is weird
<olbi> I dont mean have 2.2 GB, but only 1.2 - 1.3GB
<olbi> where we could add more software
<olbi> deafult installed on system
<olbi> time need to install will be same and users dont feel difference
<olbi> I have been installing Linux Mint and openSUSE which have 2.2GB DVD and time was even faster than Ubuntu
<micahg> we got a shout out on omgbuntu: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/01/kubuntu-xubuntu-12-04-become-long-term-support-releases/
<knome> errrrrrrrrrrrrr
<knome> what's the thing with fuzzing with our logo?
<olbi> OSWorld shout too: http://osworld.pl/2012/01/10/xubuntu-12-04-kubuntu-12-04-edubuntu-12-04-zostaja-wlaczone-do-lts/
<olbi> :)
<knome> huh? :P
<madnick> hehe 38 new emails 
<scott-work> good morning everyone
<madnick> morning scott-work 
<charlie-tca> A quick stop before losing the internet today
<charlie-tca> Maybe-ubiquity is on the desktop cd's. Unfortunately, it goes straight to the live session, and there is no way to install Xubuntu. 
<charlie-tca> You have to interupt the boot by holding right-shift (I think) to get a cd menu to install using the precise desktop images today
<charlie-tca> I will wait until tomorrow to file the bugs on this, since I need to check them on hardware yet.
<olbi> I have question, how much time it takes to updates on system, current fixed translations on site
<olbi> I have beed translated Xfce Orage
<charlie-tca> Until the translations are merged to Orage and then synced to Debian and Ubuntu
<olbi> do you have some orientations of how much takes recently?
<charlie-tca> I don't have, no. 
<charlie-tca> First thing that happens is Xfce publishes the new version with the translations, then we can get that version.
<olbi> :)
<scott-work> micahg: you told me previously you use a term in the changelog for the release when it hasn't been released for a particular version
<scott-work> micahg: i believe you use 'UNRELEASED' for this term
<micahg> scott-work: yes
<scott-work> by the way, i am back into updating the ubuntu studio theme-ui rebasing on xubuntu work again
<scott-work> although i have now parsing the xubuntu code into ubuntu studio's current packages
<scott-work> i have three packages already done, probably don't need to touch the others currently
<scott-work> i plan to start test building tonight, then file the bug report, add the LP: # to the changelogs and push to bzr
<scott-work> also update the seeds accordingly
<micahg> ScottL: I'm heading out now, but will be back later
<scott-work> no problem :)
<scott-work> knome: did you still need to talk to me?
<knome> humm
<knome> i think i need guidance on where to head with the US website
<scott-work> i'm hoping to make a major push on the website this weekend given the email from rt@ubuntu
<scott-work> hehe
<scott-work> oh, we were also talking business cards at one point as well
<knome> yeah, that was actually why i was after you!
<knome> just a sec
<knome> well thought :))
<scott-work> oh....good :)
<knome> also
<knome> where are you at regarding the ubiquity "installation sets"? i heard stgraber was doing some modifications to the installer and he said he'll get back to you after that
<scott-work> knome: we haven't started, a few people mentioned they might do it but haven't yet
<scott-work> i suppose after i get the ubuntu studio theme-ui transition pushed to bzr and the website (mostly) done i'll push into the seeds/ubiquity then
<knome> mmh
<scott-work> my goal is to have this done in time for A2 which means i hope to start next week on it
<astraljava> Umm... what is that mail from Killian Picard about?
<Unit193> Re: Microsoft & Apple software
<Unit193> That's my best guess
<knome> astraljava, probably a bit mental guy
<knome> astraljava, and this time i don't mean you
<astraljava> ACK
<knome> scott-work, are you online later?
<scott-work> knome: yes, i'll be in and out throught the following 4.5 hours at work
<knome> scott-work, ok, i'll get back to you once i'm back myself :)
<baizon> hmm a quick question... Firefox 10 will be a LTS. Will xubuntu use the normal versions, or will you stick with the LTS version?
<scott-work> did xubuntu ask for the full 5 year LTS term?
<Unit193> No, 3
<scott-work> thank you Unit193 
<Unit193> Yes sir!
<knome> scott-work, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Precise/LTSCyclePlan
#xubuntu-devel 2012-01-11
<Unit193> Conference?
<micahg> Unit193: Canonical rally
<Unit193> Yea, didn't know one was going on now, but figured it out with "@conference/canonical-sprint/x-aftyeckbpmgjwupv"
<micahg> xubuntu alternates no longer oversized, live images are still though
<micahg> mr_pouit: I haven't merged murrine-themes since I wasn't sure if our snapshot was ahead of Debian or not
<nanotube> oversized images? just rip out the gimp! </ubuntu> :)
<astraljava> Nooo! Without gimp, you can't scale down the images. *blink* *blink*
<nanotube> haha
<nanotube> i wonder how much space 'convert' takes up.
<astraljava> It's in the imagemagick package. Probably could separate it, taking very little.
<nanotube> heh, the whole imagemagick takes < 300kb. gimp takes 14mb .... i figure there's no need for a split-up :)
<astraljava> Sure, but you specifically asked for convert. :)
<astraljava> *only
<nanotube> indeed :)
<charlie-tca> The live session starts with compositing enabled now? Doesn't that severely limit those who are looking for a light-weight OS and can't use compositing?
<baizon> not really i think :)
<charlie-tca> NO? What about video cards that are unable to use that and therefore, fail to start the live session?
<charlie-tca> That probably explains a lot of the video failures we get reported, where all they get is a black screen.
<baizon> ok, i didnt know that. sorry :(
<charlie-tca> It also increases the required memory
<astraljava> Crap. Alarm's custom command won't be stopped if you stop the alarm that just went off.
<charlie-tca> Yeah, I noticed that too. It is a change from a couple of releases back, too.
<charlie-tca> It used to turn off both the on-screen indicator and the alarm
<astraljava> That's what I thought.
<charlie-tca> I just added the alarm sounds back here, or I might have noticed it a lot sooner
<charlie-tca> appologies to Unit193 and GridCube. They have been documenting testing results, but it seems quite difficult to find the results from daily testing after the next image is out.
<astraljava> I just realized a moment ago.
<nanotube> astraljava: where do you find alarms in xubuntu? you mean orage?
<astraljava> nanotube: It's the alarm applet. I'm not sure where it belongs to, but adding it makes it appear in the applet list of indicator plugin.
<nanotube> astraljava: is that one of the things you can add to panel? i don't see anything called 'alarm' in there...
<nanotube> maybe it's an extra package
<nanotube> ?
<astraljava> Yeah. One sec.
<astraljava> $ dpkg -l | grep alarm
<astraljava> ii  alarm-clock                            1.2.5-1.2                               Alarm Clock for GTK Environments
<nanotube> xfce4-timer-plugin ?
<astraljava> ii  alarm-clock-applet                     0.3.2-1ubuntu1                          Alarm Clock applet
<nanotube> ah
<nanotube> thanks :)
<astraljava> NP. I'm not sure whether charlie-tca meant this one, but it used to work prior to oneiric. Not sure how far before oneiric, but in one of the earlier releases.
<charlie-tca> The one I use is called xfce4-timer . It is a panel applet that you install
<charlie-tca> nanotube: that's the one I use. It used to have the external alarms turn off when you clicked the "time up" box. Now it keeps ringing until it is done
<nanotube> hm ic
<nanotube> speaking of alarms... anyone can tell me why i'm not getting orage reminder notifications? events just pass on by
<charlie-tca> probably a preference you need to put a check in. open the calendar by clicking the panel app, click edit, preferences
<charlie-tca> Might need to set an alarm or something in the event, too. Been a while since I used orage for events
<nanotube> already checked, nothing there about "don't show alarms even though you want to" :)
<astraljava> nanotube: You're talking precise, right?
<nanotube> ah hmm, it seems my events have not been checked with "persistent alarm", so maybe they just pass me by when the computer was suspended? 
<nanotube> astraljava: precise what?
<astraljava> Hmm... could be.
<astraljava> nanotube: pangolin. :)
<nanotube> astraljava: no, i'm on oneiric :)
<nanotube> haha
<astraljava> Ok.
<nanotube> well, let's see if that does it. :)
<astraljava> At least it works without suspending.
<nanotube> heh yes. and i couldn't be arsed to suspend atm. so i'll just see how my regular notifications go now that i set them to persistent. :)
<astraljava> Ok. I'll be going to the office tomorrow so I'll suspend then.
<micahg> do we want xdiagnose seeded to help debug X issues?
<charlie-tca> not really. It is really easy to install, isn't it?
<micahg> sure
<micahg> sudo apt-get install xdiagnose
<charlie-tca> Does it need to be there all the time? We already have turned on composite mode, which is going to create more fails
<micahg> idk, needing to install it means needing to reproduce failures a second time
<charlie-tca> That is true
<charlie-tca> and when they can't get anything but a black screen because they can't use compositing, it is going to fail anyway
<charlie-tca> If the issue can not be reproduced, it is not going to get worked anyway, most of the time
<nanotube> so, why not turn compositing off by default?
<charlie-tca> That would be my choice, but it is not my decision. I did not decide to turn it on, either.
<nanotube> not saying it was. just making the suggestion :)
<charlie-tca> +1 :)
<nanotube> as long as it's easy enough to turn it on (it is, might want to make it more prominent if needed), should be fine either way
<nanotube> or... how about making it an available option at the livecd selection screen
<micahg> is xubuntu-devel moderated?
<charlie-tca> and logged
<charlie-tca> yes
<astraljava> Moderated? How does that work?
<micahg> charlie-tca: no, sorry, I meant the ML
<astraljava> Or are we talking about mailing list here?
<astraljava> In which case the logging doesn't make sense.
<astraljava> Ahh... yes.
<charlie-tca> yes, it is. I think cody-somerville is the moderator
<charlie-tca> but I might be wrong again
<micahg> hmm, ok
<madnick> devel cant be moderated afaik
<madnick> I remember joining that last year and it happened instantly
<charlie-tca> That doesn't mean so much. We can set them to allow that
<charlie-tca> xubuntu-devel list run by knightlust at ubuntu.com, cody-somerville at ubuntu.com
<micahg> not what I meant either
<cody-somerville> whats the question?
<charlie-tca> not sure how much is done, though, micahg 
<micahg> message moderation for non-subscribed users
<charlie-tca> cody-somerville: is the ubuntu-devel mailing list moderated?
<charlie-tca> sorry, wrong one.
<charlie-tca> cody-somerville: is the xubuntu-devel mailing list moderated?
<cody-somerville> No. But some messages do get moderated
<cody-somerville> like from non-subscribers
<charlie-tca> That's what micahg was looking for
<micahg> yep, ok, I'll figure it out later then, thanks
<charlie-tca> anybody that can test desktop images today? We have the installer now, and need to make sure it works, both with "Try Xubuntu" and "Install Xubuntu"
<astraljava> I can do the 32-bit one.
<astraljava> ...on real hw.
<astraljava> 64-bit on virt.
<astraljava> Will that do?
<charlie-tca> Oh, but of course. and it will be very much appreciated! 
<astraljava> Ok I'll report on the tracker in a few hours.
<astraljava> What's the hardware profile asked in the iso testing results page?
<Unit193> Something I ignore
<Unit193> Might be for later use, I just put it in the comments
<astraljava> Ok. Put what in the comments? CPU, RAM, what else?
<Unit193> Whatever you feel, I normally put RAM and that I used VBox
<astraljava> Ok.
<Unit193> But that's me
<astraljava> Where?
<astraljava> Oh, there you are.
<Unit193> ----->
<astraljava> Hmm... can't do the wubi part of the tests, though.
<astraljava> Unit193: Charlie left, so can't tell him I got too tired to do the amd64 desktop tests, unfortunately. Did the entire disk and manual partitioning for i386 on real hw, however.
<astraljava> Going to try to sleep now. G'night, all.
<Unit193> Good night, I'll run some when I get home
<nanotube> so where are those desktop images that need testing? i can test one on liveusb on a 64bit box.
<nanotube> and can anyone point to the standard testing procedure?
<Unit193> nanotube: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/204/builds
<nanotube> thanks Unit193 . is there any details of what i should be looking at once i boot into a livesession?
<Unit193> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/204/builds/9687/downloads and http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Install/DesktopLiveSession
<Unit193> There is a link with every one
<nanotube> ah, i missed the little wrench icon which would have taken me to the second link, which is what i was looking for. :) thanks Unit193 
<Unit193> Yep, as always
#xubuntu-devel 2012-01-12
<nanotube> btw, bugreport: show desktop button minimizes all windows across all workspaces, not just current workspace. (on oneiric here)
<nanotube> hope that's not "expected behavior" on xubuntu
<nanotube> ?
<nanotube> not clicking that again....
<ochosi> knome, mr_pouit: we'll have to add a new point to our agenda for precise (unless we want to risk some visual breakage): fork elementary-icon-theme as xubuntu-icon-theme (or something)
<ochosi> knome, mr_pouit: ubuntu will release all the changes by upstream elementary, i.e. all the dropped symlinks. i've just discussed this with DanRabbit in #elementary-dev and he is okay with our/my decision. we can later talk about cherry-picking stuff from upstream (i can maintain it in either bzr or git, preferrably the latter)
<ochosi> knome, mr_pouit: he said he'll support us so that we can avoid keeping/maintaining the fork in the next release (i.e. provide an addon-package again)
<Unit193> I personally hate filing but reports, but I do them when I have to
<ochosi> nanotube: i think it is expected behavior. better to file a bugreport upstream versus xfwm4
<ochosi> nanotube: (or whatever component houses this shortcut)
<nanotube> ochosi: well, it certainly hasn't been expected behavior on gnome, since at least ubuntu breezy. and it certainly doesn't make sense that when i hit a 'show desktop' i want to minimize everything across all workspaces, rather than the one currently on.
<nanotube> guess i'll file that bug with xfce
<ochosi> sounds like a plan
<nanotube> :)
<knome> ochosi, sounds fair enough
<knome> madnick, read micahg's email to xubuntu-devel :)
<knome> hey micahg 
<knome> is there a bug for the thunderbird icons in LP?
<knome> ah, there is!
<knome> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/murrine-themes/+bug/856939 <- micahg, would you like to be the assignee?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 856939 in murrine-themes (Ubuntu) "Default Thunderbird icons in Oneiric unusable with Greybird" [High,Confirmed]
<knome> madnick, i sent the weekly mail to ubuntu-release a moment ago
<madnick> knome: you mean the gtk-example-gretter?
<madnick> greeter*
<charlie-tca> Hardware installs day today. I will try and do at least one for each image in real hardware today.
<charlie-tca> Thanks, astraljava . Those tests help.
<pleia2> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-bugs
<pleia2> this list is dead, right?
<pleia2> nothing in the archives
<knome> pleia2, afaik, yes
<knome> thunderbird needs "keep this folder always marked read" -option
<knome> for sent mail, drafts and maybe even trash :)
<charlie-tca> pleia2: yes, I think we tried to use it about 2-3 years ago, but it has not been used for so long, it is dead.
<pleia2> thanks knome and charlie-tca 
<pleia2> it's on our hit list for mailing list cleanup :)
<charlie-tca> I saw that, and knew it was a dead one. I did not think a response would be needed if it was dead anyway. But, thanks for checking.
<pleia2> well, I received an email from colin watson about a -patches list not keeping archives because the information was available elsewhere, so I wanted to make sure this wasn't the case elsewhere
<charlie-tca> always good to make sure, I guess. 
<ochosi> knome: mind to add a task for the icon-theme? (sry, after 8hrs of korean lessons today i'm really too tired now and might forget until tomorrow...)
<charlie-tca> http://imagebin.org/193264 
<charlie-tca> maybe-ubiquity on daily-live i386 from today
<knome> charlie-tca, looks relatively good but could use some more love :)
<charlie-tca> of course. However, the screen before that with the two icons is still straight from Ubuntu, including the purple color
<knome> do you have a shot of that too?
<charlie-tca> no, It is harder to capture
<ochosi> meh, purple :/
<knome> okay. if you could get one at all, could you paste it?
<charlie-tca> It doesn't show up right in VBox, only on hardware, which I can not screenshot.
<ochosi> and hi everyone ;)
<knome> ah, right
<charlie-tca> It is the ubuntu bootup screen. 
<knome> hey ochosi, you're back :)
<ochosi> charlie-tca: unless you use a digicam :)
<charlie-tca> No money to buy one
<ochosi> knome: well kinda, but maybe not for long today
<ochosi> knome: btw, does the elementary-icons thing need community-approval?
<ochosi> (e.g. in the next meeting)
<knome> ochosi, i don't really think so. we're essentially keeping the same stuff
<knome> ochosi, except putting in some improvements
<ochosi> knome: yup, that's true
<knome> i think what we should do is to as feedback on the changes once we've decided what to change, if they seem like big things
<knome> no other package from upstream goes through community approval on new release either :)
<charlie-tca> Um, the other problem with maybe-ubiquity is that if you choose "Install Xubuntu", keyboard doesn't work to go through the screens.
<ochosi> knome: mhm, agreed
<knome> charlie-tca, hmmh, could you file a bug?
<charlie-tca> I will, when I am positive of what it is doing
<knome> okay, thanks. can you also ping me back when you've done that, so i can forward that to cjwatson :)
<charlie-tca> You know he is automatically subscribed to them, right?
<knome> i suppose, but i've been in contact with him on IRC
#xubuntu-devel 2012-01-13
<charlie-tca> No new desktop images today
<davmor2> charlie-tca: did you have any issues on hw with ubiquity dying on the last continue click?
<charlie-tca> I haven't had any, no
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu doesn't ever tell you to hit Enter to continue on hardware, either. 
<charlie-tca> I ran 4 tests on hardware yesterday, with no problems
<charlie-tca> davmor2: Do you need something verified?
<davmor2> charlie-tca: No on ubuntu 64bit it keeps hanging on me when I click on the continue button on Who are you
<charlie-tca> weird
<charlie-tca> Mine went right through 
<charlie-tca> Could it be the partitioning method causing it?
<davmor2> I'm using standard use entire drive
<charlie-tca> I will burn the image and try it
<charlie-tca> davmor2: clicked on both download updates and 3rd party software, clicked Continue, kernel oops
<charlie-tca> Trying again
<davmor2> charlie-tca: that's sounding about as reliable as my experience :)
<charlie-tca> heh, at least you are not alone :)
<charlie-tca> great! it's reproducable, too
<charlie-tca> Okay, try this without those boxes checked now
<charlie-tca> davmor2: seeing those kernel oops by checking the boxes, I think the image has serious issues. However, not checking is letting me continue.
<charlie-tca> Got to the "Who are you?" screen this time. Let's see what happens
<davmor2> yeah I had those checked so I wonder if it was oppsing but continuing at the same time 
<charlie-tca> clicked continue at the last screen and it is working. I got the slideshow now.
<charlie-tca> It is one of those boxes
<davmor2> thatnks charlie-tca I'll update my bug and pass the info onto ev
<charlie-tca> I am betting on the 3rd party software
<charlie-tca> Let me know if I need to pull those kernel oops logs
<charlie-tca> Who is the release manager for Xubuntu for this cycle?
<charlie-tca> Normally, the release manager and the project lead are the same person
<charlie-tca> If I am going to called in the release meetings, I will need to know what is going on
<knome> charlie-tca, everything is in the meeting minutes
<knome> charlie-tca, madnick should handle the release meetings, but it seems he's been rather busy lately
<knome> as am i
<charlie-tca> Is madnick the release manager then?
<knome> that depends what that means
<charlie-tca> That means the person with the authority and responsibility for the release cycle. They can make the decisions needed, and they attend the meetings, and they try to follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Development/ReleaseProcess
<charlie-tca> They keep track of what is happening throughout the release cycle, write release notes, keep the team updated, etc
<knome> i am, but since i'm not a technical person, i haven't attended the release meetings, but asked for madnick to do that
<charlie-tca> Great. Then I can have my name removed from the "must attend" list
<knome> i'm worried about that though, since as i said, madnick's been busy lately, and afaik, haven't attended
<knome> i try to send the email every week to the release ML, but sometimes i fail because i need to work on other things, or purely just forget
<charlie-tca> If he can't attend, and you are the decision maker, you should be attending
<knome> i understand that.
<knome> unfortunately things aren't so black&white
<knome> what if i didn't get a message from him saying he can't attend?
<knome> what if i can't attend myself?
<charlie-tca> Sure they are. As Project Lead, you have full and total responsibility for the release.
<knome> but before that, i have full and total responsibility of making a living.
<knome> there hasn't been problems so far
<knome> i've also been in contact with skaet, so if there is problems i hope to hear from them
<madnick> hi, im back, acctually, i was quite sure I could attend today, but I got stuck in a meeting regarding my business plan that I had to dicuss before the weekend
<knome> generally speaking i don't think any single person should take too much to carry, and the optimal situation is a situation where things are distributed amongst several people
<knome> that also makes it easier to replace people, even if one dropped out in the midst of a release cycle
<knome> this doesn't mean that i'm not willing to take full responsibility for xubuntu
<knome> it just means i don't think ANYONE should do more than they can, and also that i understand that other people have other life than xubuntu too, and so have i
<knome> madnick, no problem really. how does your fridays in the future look?
<madnick> I think I should be able to attend, since the meeting is outside of normal business hours anyways for me
<knome> yeah.
<madnick> Its just that, this startup process is quite intense over the past few weeks
<knome> i understand
<knome> don't worry too much
<knome> are you also able to send the mail to the release ML every thursday in the following weeks?
<knome> content should be fully covered in the last team meeting minutes, unless it's some time from it
<madnick> Well, if we have meetings it shouldnt be a problem, its just about getting the information
<knome> yeah, i agree
<charlie-tca> Well, let me know if you are doing the alpha2 release, so I know if I need to test it, okay?
<knome> charlie-tca, i will inform, and we most probably will if that's done before too
<knome> charlie-tca, at some point, we also need your input on accessibility for the new lightdm theme
<knome> madnick, are there your work items in the LP blueprints that could be considered "DONE" ?
<knome> you have a lot of INPROGRESS but i remember you saying most of them are basically done already, but only need feedback or sth
<madnick> perhaps, the thing is, while my things (plymouth excluded) are mostly done, i need a lot of feedback
<ochosi> would be good to ask for that @meetings
<madnick> yes
<knome> could you gather an email or a wikipage of what kind of feedback you need?
<ochosi> (although even during normal days it's ok)
<madnick> yes i could
<knome> that would be awesome
<knome> sorry for the jono reference :P
<knome> anyway, i could try to send you some feedback ASAP so we can get on with things
<ochosi> he
<ochosi> :)
<knome> right now, the burndown chart looks relatively good
<madnick> at this exact moment i have people coming over for beer, but I will get to it during this weekend.
<madnick> Ill send an email
<madnick> to the ML
<madnick> during the weekend with a link
<knome> thanks a lot madnick 
<knome> have a nice evening with friends and beer
<knome> your contribution is very much appreciated :)
<madnick> :)
 * knome is afk
#xubuntu-devel 2012-01-15
<astraljava> Should the xfce4-timer-plugin show some kind of icon in the panel?
<ochosi> astraljava: no, only a progressbar
<astraljava> ochosi: Ok, thanks. There is a dark vertical bar, but I didn't see any progress on it.
<ochosi> hmyeah, possible that there are problems with that plugin
<ochosi> i've only tested it once
<ochosi> are you using greybird?
<ochosi> (i thought i fixed that in greybird)
<astraljava> I'm using whatever is enabled by default. (sorry, haven't paid much attention to those details yet)
<ochosi> well that depends on your version of xubuntu :)
<ochosi> anyway, i'm off for now
<astraljava> That would be oneiric. :) And yeah, me too, to the gym.
<knome> madnick, when would you have time to go through the lightdm/plymouth stuff?
<madnick> knome: i am in the process of reinstalling my computer
<madnick> with 11.10
<knome> okay
<madnick> i will have to reset up
<knome> would some night next week work for you?
<madnick> any time
<knome> i was thinking of going to sleep soonish
<madnick> next week
<knome> okay, i'll ping you
<knome> ochosi, what's your schedule?
<madnick> well the problem is, i will need to restore the dev environment
<madnick> so i cant tonite
<knome> yeah, won't be tonight
<knome> i'm about to go to sleep
<madnick> also wednesday cannot be done for me i wont be home
<knome> okay, let me check the work shifts for wife
<ochosi> next week == the upcoming week?
<knome> err, yeah
<knome> 16 ->
<knome> weekend would be optimal for me
<ochosi> hm, maybe
<knome> either saturday or sunday night
<ochosi> no, nights/evenings on that weekend are definitely bad
<madnick> yes that works for me aswell
<knome> awwh :D
<ochosi> well you don't necessarily need me :)
<knome> true
<ochosi> but if i'm there i'll show up
<madnick> i'd say for the theme it only needs some more "nice" CSS if we are settled with the general apperance
<ochosi> and if you want feedback we can discuss that after your changes
<madnick> then we need to figure out the accessability
<ochosi> mhm
<madnick> and get the wallpaper
<ochosi> btw, i recently read that lightdm will now pick a users wallpaper
<knome> madnick, let's try to work on it on saturday (21st) night?
<madnick> okay
<madnick> ochosi: there is functionallity for it in the lib
<madnick> but i never tested it
<ochosi> mhm
<ochosi> i think people might like that
<ochosi> making the fade-to-desktop experience after clicking "log in" a bit smoother
<madnick> yes
<madnick> and also the setting gui for lightdm
<ochosi> but anyway, that's just additional stuff, let's fix the other things first
<ochosi> yes, the settings gui
<ochosi> what was the status on that again?
<madnick> wasnt the XFCE project doing something that almost eliminated most of the functionality in that app
<madnick> its pretty much done
<madnick> its some config file parsing left
<ochosi> not sure we'll get any new xfce apps for precise
<ochosi> so i think we definitely want your app :)
<madnick> okay
<knome> yes
<madnick> well, ill setup the dev environment tonight
<ochosi> iirc the layout of the settings gui was also finalized, right?
<madnick> yes i think so
<madnick> according to the drafts
<ochosi> ok, good, so no more work for me on that ;)
<knome> we can go through that on saturday too
<knome> i'm sooo willing to get http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/group/topic-precise-flavor-xubuntu.html in better shape ;)
<madnick> i couldve uploaded the greeter long ago, i hesitated because i have not been sure about the accessability features
<knome> i'd say: upload asap, let's start getting feedback from charlie
<madnick> okay
<ochosi> +1
<knome> and if that means some of the work items should be marked as "done", please update the blueprints
<madnick> hehe i will
<knome> once we get most of those relating to lightdm/plymouth to "done", we look much better again
<knome> okay, see you later
<knome> bed calls
<knome> ->
<madnick> cya
#xubuntu-devel 2013-01-07
<ochosi> are any of you attending FOSDEM this year?
 * micahg should poke at getting the amd64 ISO CD sized soon
<knome> :)
<micahg> I can probably figure that out by alpha2
<micahg> (Feb 7)
<knome> heh
<knome> the alpha we're not participating in :)
<micahg> well, it's a useful milestone nonetheless
<knome> sure
#xubuntu-devel 2013-01-09
<knome> pleia2, another thing we might want to touch: http://identi.ca/group/xubuntu
<pleia2> identi.ca kind of makes my head explode
<pleia2> there are one or two trolls there
<pleia2> (million!)
<pleia2> :)
<knome> yeah, but since the group is administered by somebody whose nick (no pun intended) sounds familiar, i think we should get at least the logo updated
<pleia2> ah yes, I'll give him a nudge
<pleia2> haven't heard from him lately though
<knome> just tell him to email me if he needs help with (exporting) artwork
<knome> the url on his blog articles image discloses that he has blogged on august. so not years of silence. yet.
<pleia2> he's kind of been in and out
<knome> just as a final note, however much you hate identi.ca, would you be willing to join as an additional admin (if you have an account)
<knome> hah, we're only 37 followers away from identica's numbers on twitter.
<pleia2> I suppose, if only for nuclear option recovery
<pleia2> am pleia2 there too, but don't use it
<knome> just to have somebody from the team that's active (on the team) on the admins.
<pleia2> I don't really understand how groups work though
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> me neither
<knome> i don't think it's like an account
<knome> i suppose it's more like a group for a hash(exclamation)tag or something
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> why that needs an admin... who knows :)
<knome> btw, can others see https://twitter.com/i/connect ?
<knome> if not, that's a bit shame
<pleia2> no
<pleia2> but they can search for @Xubuntu
<knome> yup.
<pleia2> actually that doesn't do what I wanted
<pleia2> bah twitter
<knome> lol
<knome> my phone asked "should we update the date and time?"
<knome> i was like "err"
<knome> then "ok"
<knome> and it advanced the clock 1 minute.
<knome> "ok"
<drc> ah...you have the slackware phone...no auto-nothing :)
<SkippersBoss> ev; twitter has got its uses
<SkippersBoss> evening all
<SkippersBoss> on a totally different note. Is there anything doc wise that's going to happen in Ringtail ?
<pleia2> we're planning on appointing SkippersBoss the docs lead to figure that out
<pleia2> seriously though, let me look at blueprints
<SkippersBoss> pleia2, euh you want thing done
<SkippersBoss> :_0
<pleia2> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-r-xubuntu-docs
<pleia2> not a whole lot, looks like
<SkippersBoss> Can understand though when you are delegating
<pleia2> it's a difficult cycle for me, new job + wedding planning, I'm pretty overwhelmed with Life life :)
<SkippersBoss> I thought you two were trying out wedding planners LOL
<pleia2> we didn't, that was a mistake :)
<pleia2> too late now
<knome> pleia2, i can design your invitations, but only if you give me free hands
<knome> ;)
<SkippersBoss> define free hands
<knome> nah
#xubuntu-devel 2013-01-10
<ochosi> knome: for tomorrow's meeting, it'd be nice if gtk-theme-config (shimmer-ppa) could be looked at, and testing for the new display-dialog, thunar1.6.x and mousepad 0.3 (all three from the xfce4.12 ppa) could be scheduled in terms of including it in R. thanks!
<ochosi> (as i mentioned previously i won't be able to attend tomorrow due to a worktrip)
<mr_pouit> I didn't include the new display settings in raring because it's a dev release, but all other things are already in raring
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> and hi! :)
<ochosi> well still, imo we should get it in
<ochosi> it's too nice an improvement not to have it imo
<mr_pouit> hey, and fine by me, it's our code anyway :P
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> yeah, so no chance for regressions ;)
<mr_pouit> haha
<bluesabre> agreed with all the above
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> :]
<micahg> ochosi: thunar 1.6.x and mousepad 0.3 are in raring AFAICT
<ochosi> micahg: yeah, mr_pouit mentioned that a few minutes above ;)
<Unit193> Alright, anyone have a *fresh* 13.04 Xubuntu 32bit install?  Noskcaj_afk?
<jackson__> Unit193, no sorry, only a heavily modded xubuntu12.10 amd64
<Unit193> Alright, thanks.
<knome> bluesabre, were you able to make it today?
<bluesabre> knome: I should be able to.
<knome> bluesabre, ok, good
<knome> bluesabre, do you have some time before it, like 30mins?
<knome> or 20
<bluesabre_> knome: I'll try to be around before.  What time is it at again?
<knome> bluesabre_, in 20. :)
<bluesabre_> alrighty, I'll be here.  :-)
<knome> great
<knome> can i have a quick pm?
<bluesabre_> sure
<pleia2> o/
<knome> hullo
<bluesabre_> :D
<maddernick> Is there a meeting?
<knome> i'm starting the meeting and going through the formalities
<knome> i'll ask who's around in a bit
<knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu community meetings
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jan 10 14:59:39 2013 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<knome> #topic Items carried on
<knome> #subtopic Open action items from previous meeting
<knome> #action knome to draft flyer looks
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to draft flyer looks
<knome> not happened.
<knome> #chair pleia2 
<meetingology> Current chairs: knome pleia2
<knome> so, who's here for the meeting?
<pleia2> me
<maddernick> o/
<knome> raise your hands or sth so you'll get logged
<bluesabre_> me
<bluesabre_> o/
<knome> ok, great
<knome> micahg, dingdong
<jjfrv8> o/
<knome> #topic Team updates
<knome> hey jjfrv8 :)
<knome> #subtopic Development
<micahg> hi
<knome> micahg, mr_pouit 
<knome> i suppose there's a few things that has happened since the start of the R cycle
<knome> ....and we all can still use #action and #info. :)
<bluesabre_> #info parole 0.4.0 released, looking for testers (not enough bugs logged on it)
<micahg> #info mr_pouit has gotten newer versions of various components into raring
<knome> i'll talk a bit more about testing later
<micahg> #info i386 ISO is CD size again (minus fr langpacks)
<knome> but parole getting forward is a good idea!
<knome> err, s/idea/news/ :)
<micahg> #info micahg working on rebuild FTBFS failures, mostly related to multiarch python headers
<micahg> #action micahg to attempt to make amd64 ISO CD size by alpha2 (useful for its timing, but we're not shipping it)
<meetingology> ACTION: micahg to attempt to make amd64 ISO CD size by alpha2 (useful for its timing, but we're not shipping it)
<micahg> questions or comments?
<knome> #info just for general information, the alpha2 is most probably going to be postponed by a few days (read ubuntu-release archives for more info)
<knome> micahg, is there something that's building up the iso size by a lot again?
<knome> and/or can we expect something like that
<micahg> idk, I'd have to compare the manifest from quantal to raring
<knome> but we didn't go over by much anyway?
<micahg> we can expect it to increase over time due to new core system deps
<micahg> amd64 is only 10MB over
<knome> is there any hopes of getting python2 or sth else big dropped this cycle?
<micahg> doubtful
<bluesabre_> I should have a python3 catfish in the coming weeks
<knome> ..and/or should we seriously talk about (dropping) langpacks in the next weeks?
<micahg> I don't think I'm in a position to do massive python3 porting
<micahg> es zh-hans xh pt is all that's left
<micahg> we can drop es or pt and probably be CD sized now
<knome> i don't think anybody should take that responsibility alone
<micahg> or very close toit
<knome> do we have a general idea what needs to be ported from python2?
<knome> do you think it would make sense to list those, and try to get some people to work on it?
<knome> we've had quite many people interested in helping with xubuntu lately (don't know how many are familiar with python)
<knome> that could create some positive momentum if we had something to point the people to
<micahg> I could probably dig up a list, we could see if any of the upstreams of those components have ported to python3
<knome> so would you be willing to take an official action item for that?
<knome> ;)
<micahg> to get the list, sure
<bluesabre_> I look forward to seeing that list :)
<knome> #action micahg to create a list of things that needs porting from python2 to python3
<meetingology> ACTION: micahg to create a list of things that needs porting from python2 to python3
<micahg> #action micahg to get list of packages in Xubuntu using python2
<meetingology> ACTION: micahg to get list of packages in Xubuntu using python2
<knome> hehe
<knome> well...
<knome> some reminders.
<micahg> #action micahg to finish fixing FTBFS failures found in the rebuilds
<meetingology> ACTION: micahg to finish fixing FTBFS failures found in the rebuilds
<knome> #info we'll see how the python-port list looks like, then reconsider if we should consider dropping langpacks
<micahg> anything else?
<knome> mmh
<knome> i don't think that there's anything at this point
<micahg> we only have 1 webkit, but 2 GTKs and 2 python2
<micahg> *pythons
<knome> yeah
<knome> i don't think dropping gtk2 is realistic any time soon, that's why i started poking on the python side
<knome> (don't get that wrong...)
<micahg> surely not until Xfce is ported
<knome> anyway
<knome> thanks micahg :)
<knome> #subtopic Quality Assurance
 * micahg wants to drop tcl..
<knome> what's blocking?
<micahg> it's a recommends of xchat, but that only gets up half way
<micahg> *us
<knome> nothing else is keeping that in?
<micahg> I think so
<knome> ok
<knome> #action micahg to see if anything else than xchat is keeping tcl in (recommends for xchat), team investigates possibility to drop tcl
<meetingology> ACTION: micahg to see if anything else than xchat is keeping tcl in (recommends for xchat), team investigates possibility to drop tcl
<knome> #nick team
<knome> so QA
<knome> #action knome gathers a list of things we want to test before alpha2
<meetingology> ACTION: knome gathers a list of things we want to test before alpha2
<knome> #action bluesabre_ lists things he wants tested in his projects
<meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre_ lists things he wants tested in his projects
<bluesabre_> #info parole 0.4 is out and available in raring, lots of new features and fixes, testers needed
<knome> #info we will do some specific cadence testing before a2
<knome> #info when a2 is out, we will do more of more general cadence testing
<knome> #action knome will send more information on the ML, team shouts out in social media etc. for anybody to help with testing
<meetingology> ACTION: knome will send more information on the ML, team shouts out in social media etc. for anybody to help with testing
<knome> is there anything else in QA?
<knome> questions about testing for R or sth?
<pleia2> do we want to do another blog post about testing?
<pleia2> (haven't had a post in a while)
<knome> pleia2, yes.
<knome> i'll switch the subtopic quickly.
<pleia2> ok, you can action me to draft it after you've sent the mailing list info
<knome> #subtopic Marketing, Promotion and Artwork
<pleia2> er, info to mailing list
<knome> #action pleia2 drafts a new blog article on testing after knome has sent information on testing to ML
<meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 drafts a new blog article on testing after knome has sent information on testing to ML
<knome> #info we contacted the identi.ca xubuntu group and will be co-admins of that soon
<bluesabre_> yay!
<pleia2> (hopefully :))
<knome> yeah.
<knome> but no reason why not, if people look at their email
<knome> is there some other social media outlets we should be on?
<knome> i'm not proposing to create anything new, but see if there's something existing we can make official, like the G+ page
<bluesabre_> diaspora (lol)
<knome> well, we are on facebook..
<pleia2> I haven't seen anything pop up lately
<knome> does anybody in the team have a diaspora account, or how does that stuff even work? :P
<bluesabre_> I have one, doesn't really work so well since its decentralized, and all it really seems to be is cat pictures
<knome> ok, so let's not go there
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> anything else on the subjects?
<bluesabre_> any new case badges or anything, pleia2?
<knome> oh
<pleia2> no new ones, still have a billion of the old ones :)
<knome> #info knome is seriously considering of ordering one more xubuntu t-shirt for testing quality etc 
<pleia2> \o/
<knome> pleia2, seriously? i've almost given all of mine away..
<knome> and i don't go into LUG's, see people, or anything like that!
<knome> :P
<pleia2> I ordered a lot :)
<knome> 100?
<knome> or you did another batch?
<pleia2> still the 100
<knome> ok
<pleia2> holidays here make everyone disappear from events and I've been busy ;)
<knome> heh
<knome> right
<knome> it's the boring general weekday life that does it here
<pleia2> #info we have someone working on updated screenshots for the website for 12.10 (better late than never!)
<knome> anyway, any other things on m/p/a?
<knome> ooh!
<pleia2> #info as always, we could use more team members contributing blog posts, you know where to find me :)
<knome> #action team should work more on listing low-hanging fruit for new contributors to grow the community
<meetingology> ACTION: team should work more on listing low-hanging fruit for new contributors to grow the community
<pleia2> I think that's it for mpa
<knome> i've been blogging quite a lot about xubuntu'ish things on my blog and tweeting them with the xubuntu account
<knome> #info if you write about xubuntu (development) on your blog, it's possible to tweet about that @Xubuntu
<bluesabre_> I always write a xubuntu review post a few days following release, I'll keep that in mind.
<knome> yup, just remind us
<knome> #info or, if you're on twitter yourself, we can retweet too..
<knome> #info knome has been retweeting some nice comments for @Xubuntu anyway
<pleia2> :)
<knome> #subtopic Documentation, Website
<knome> anything on this?
<knome> well, the note about somebody working on the screenshots
<bluesabre_> knome, you mentioned considering moving the help documents to yelp at one point
<knome> am i failing on the categoriing again? :)
<knome> +z
<pleia2> #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-r-xubuntu-docs
<knome> bluesabre_, right. we should talk about that in #ubuntu-docs
<knome> bluesabre_, somebody there suggested that
<bluesabre_> ah
<knome> for being able to have translations and stuff
<knome> bluesabre_, you interested in finding out more about that?
<bluesabre_> I might be able to help.  I've done some stuff with mallard
<knome> mh
<knome> #action bluesabre_ to investigate moving to yelp with docs to enable translations and stuff
<meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre_ to investigate moving to yelp with docs to enable translations and stuff
<knome> anything else?
<bluesabre_> brb
<knome> ok, probably not
<knome> #subtopic General updates
<knome> anything else?
<micahg> are we having a default apps discussion at all?
<knome> micahg, hurrrr
<knome> micahg, if you *really* want to :)
<knome> i mean
<pleia2> the Community Council has been meeting with teams this cycle, next Thursday (17th) it's Xubuntu's turn: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<pleia2> consider this your invite :)
<pleia2> I'll remind on the day too, 7 days a 1.5 hrs from now
<knome> pleia2, can i consider that as an invite, or should i consider that as a must since i asked for that?
<knome> ;)
<bluesabre_> back
<pleia2> :)
<bluesabre_> mousepad
<micahg> no, I'd rather not, but maybe there's something we're shipping that's not worthwhile
<knome> so that's more about "dropping things we don't need" than "default applications" talk
<knome> with def apps i'm thinking about somebody wanting to *replace* something
<knome> i think mousepad is a good proposal though
<knome> i mean, in the sense that it's a good proposal to look at it, not taking any side if it's good to include or not (yet)
<bluesabre_> I think it should be considered
<knome> micahg, let's schedule some time later to look at the seed togheter
<bluesabre_> Its minimalistic, but can actually be used for development
<knome> *together
<knome> #action team to schedule some time to look at the seed and consider dropping unneded things
<meetingology> ACTION: team to schedule some time to look at the seed and consider dropping unneded things
<knome> bluesabre_, leafpad is too, and i suppose that's what you're proposing to replace, so no problem with that.
<micahg> bluesabre: we switched to leafpad in oneiric to get rid of xfprint4
<knome> i there still that dep?
<micahg> no
<knome> in mousepad i mean
<micahg> no
<knome> ok, then np from my POV
<knome> if we move back to mousepad, i'm wondering if we should create a symlink for leafpad since many people have learnt *that* now
<knome> like me.
<micahg> mousepad is a bit bigger
<knome> define "a bit"
<knome> 1 byte?
<micahg> 100k
<micahg> with a few more deps
<knome> mmh
<knome> let's consider that
 * micahg wonders why an editor needs a dep on dbus
<knome> #action team to consider switching leafpad to mousepad
<meetingology> ACTION: team to consider switching leafpad to mousepad
<pleia2> heh
<knome> #topic Announcements
<knome> #subtopic Changes of positions on the Xubuntu team
<knome> #info elfy dropped a line that he can't help in the R cycle; knome will take over the QA-related stuff (again)
<knome> #info The term for XPL ends at the end of this cycle
<knome> #info Since we changed the Strategy Document, the next term will only be 2 (two) releases, since the term is designed to end with an LTS release.
<knome> #info We will be voting on extending the current XPL's term at the end of the cycle; if not extended, a new XPL will serve for two cycles
<knome> anything you want to ask?
<micahg> why an extension instead of a new election?
<knome> well, you can consider that as a new election
<micahg> or is the new term supposed to be 2 years?
 * micahg supposes he should read the doc
<knome> i'm partly disqualified in this thing
<knome> it used to be 1,5 years
<knome> but that doesn't make sense because it doesn't allow long-term planning (because it doesn't always end with an LTS release)
<knome> so yes, the term is supposed to be 2 years
<knome> but this is the exception, because the overruling rule is that the term should end with an LTS release
<micahg> ok, then extending your term to 2.5 years isn't unreasonable
<knome> no, but i'm completely okay with doing a vote, because i changed that thing in the SD myself
<knome> and i think we need to do one
<micahg> knome: oh, I agree that it should be put to a vote :)
<knome> there's a slight possibility that i'm saying "i won't!"
<knome> and then you *have to* elect somebody else, like micahg or bluesabre_ 
<knome> >:)
<pleia2> :P
<knome> or pleia2!
 * micahg would vote for pleia2 
<pleia2> noo
<knome> haha
<micahg> hehe
<bluesabre_> I'd vote for not me
<knome> i suppose the SD says one must be willing to serve... ;)
<knome> if it doesn't, we should change that before voting...
<pleia2> lol
<knome> anyway, that's it for announcements
<knome> any other team leads have other announcements?
<knome> pleia2, maybe post the CC invite here with #info?
<knome> if it's still on your history
<pleia2> right
<pleia2> #info the Community Council has been meeting with teams this cycle, next Thursday (17th) it's Xubuntu's turn: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<knome> thanks
<knome> #topic New and emerging items
<knome> #subtopic Serbian translation for Xfce 4.10
<knome> micahg?
<knome> what do you want to discuss
<knome> or is this something you should discuss with mr_pouit 
<knome> #subtopic Discuss changing Xfce translations to a langpack system similar to KDE (makes it easier to update translations post release)
<knome> that's pretty much the same subject
<micahg> sorry, got distracted
<knome> no problem
<knome> we can simply postpone these, if you need other people to discuss with
<knome> i'm completely ok with changing the system if that's easier for you
<micahg> well, I'd like mr_pouit's opinion, but I think it might be worthwhile to switch to a Kubuntu style langpacks so that we can update the languages post release more easily
<knome> and i'm completely ok with getting the serbian translation in 13.04, and i'll help if i can
<knome> do we need to do that often / have we done that often / would we have needed to do that more often than we did?
<micahg> idk that it's been done before since we don't have the option ATM
<knome> it has or hasn't been done before? :)
<micahg> right now, we'd have to reupload everything with the languages in question
<micahg> as opposed to one new langpack source
<knome> that doesn't help me understand it thoroughly... but as said, if it makes the maintaining (much) more easy, it's probably worth it
<knome> would you follow up about this with mr_pouit? 
<micahg> I think overall it does, it just will require a bit of work up front
<mr_pouit> (sorry for being late/silent) indeed, language packs are great, I'm still a bit skeptical about the lp/contributors' side.
<knome> yup, but maybe we could get other people to help, if there's some low-hanging fruit
<micahg> mr_pouit: not for that reason, we wouldn't end up with LP stuff unless we asked
<micahg> or set it up for that, it's more for post release updates from upstream
<mr_pouit> oh, great
<knome> so will you both/either of you take an action item for that?
<knome> :]
<micahg> mr_pouit: so we can grab stuff like this and update it: https://translations.xfce.org/projects/p/xfce/r/xfce-4-10/l/af/
<micahg> or this for a better example: https://translations.xfce.org/projects/p/xfce/r/xfce-4-10/l/sr/
<mr_pouit> micahg: yeah, if we can regularly sync .po from xfce-4.x branches, that's the best way
<mr_pouit> (I've done it once for nl.po when pjotr asked, but it's painful to patch each package)
<micahg> I'd have to look at how Kubuntu does it
<micahg> they have scripts to help and I think KDE upstream ships the languages separately
<micahg> mr_pouit: do you think corsac would be open to doing this in Debian?
<micahg> it might require patching the various xfce packages to not ship the po files (again, I have to see how Kubuntu handles this)
<mr_pouit> not sure he'll be happy about that (patch all packages I mean)
<micahg> well, I would think we only want to ship 1 copy of the translations per app
<mr_pouit> ubuntu langpacks install somewhere else and use pkgstriptranslations I think, isn't it feasible as well
<mr_pouit> +?
<mr_pouit> (or only when rosetta/lp is involved?)
<micahg> yeah, can be
<knome> so... will you take the needed action items for this? :)
<micahg> ok
<knome> thanks
<mr_pouit> (I can, although I'm not sure I can give it too much time before february)
<mr_pouit> fine then, thanks :P
<knome> no problem
<knome> umm.. would you write the nice little poems yourself? :P
<micahg> #action micahg to research converting to a Kubuntu style per-language source langpack
<meetingology> ACTION: micahg to research converting to a Kubuntu style per-language source langpack
<knome> do we need something else?
<micahg> that depends on the success of the above
<knome> heh,ok
<knome> #subtopic Schedule next meeting
<knome> two weeks from now sound fine for everybody?
<micahg> sure, are we participating in 12.04.2?
<pleia2> probably
<knome> micahg, why not?
<bluesabre_> yeah, that should work for me
<knome> isn't that today
<micahg> well, do we have any work that needs to be done?
<knome> oh, kernelfreeze
<knome> i don't think so
<micahg> it's Jan 31
<knome> at least i can't think anything from my head
<knome> we'll have a week
<micahg> SRU freeze is next week
<knome> aha
<knome> it's not in the release schedule... for some weird reason
<mr_pouit> any urgen SRu pending?
<micahg> well, I wanted to fix gvfs in thunar, but I ran into a dead end
<knome> and we wanted to port the docs to 12.04, but that's not happening for .2
<mr_pouit> micahg: the slow startup?
<micahg> mr_pouit: no, failure due to transport endpoint
<mr_pouit> ah, that too
<micahg> then I tried backporting later versions and had issues with that since the dependencies changed
<mr_pouit> I think this was fixed when mountpoints moved to /run/$user/...
<mr_pouit> (but not in precise)
<knome> so regardless, is meeting in 2 weeks ok?
<knome> i need to go... :)
<micahg> that makes sense, they're no longer in an encrypted area
<micahg> yes, makes sense
<knome> #info Next Xubuntu community meeting: Jan 24, 15 UTC @#xubuntu-devel
<knome> #endmeetings
<knome> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jan 10 16:15:12 2013 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2013/xubuntu-devel.2013-01-10-14.59.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2013/xubuntu-devel.2013-01-10-14.59.html
<knome> thanks!
<knome> i'll get the minutes and logs up later today
<micahg> hrm, I wanted to add a note about 12.04 SRUs
<mr_pouit> SRUs for .2: Bug #354830 needs testing (no feedback yet), although if nobody's replying, I guess this wasn't an important issue
<ubottu> bug 354830 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu Quantal) "xfce4-settings-helper crashed with SIGSEGV in g_type_create_instance()" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/354830
<mr_pouit> erf
<knome> micahg, send that to my email, i'll add it to the minutes
<knome> bbl ->
<micahg> oh, I should probably fix the exo helper stuff in precise, it's quite annoying ATM with apparmor enabled in Firefox
<knome> (and bye and thanks again everybody!)
<pleia2> thanks :)
<micahg> BTW, separating the langpacks should giive us a bit more room on the images, not sure how much though
<greenwolf> did i miss the meeting today?
<greenwolf> does anyone know what time the #Xubuntu community meeting was?
<bluesabre_> 15 UTC I think (2 hours, 20 minutes ago)
<greenwolf> damn i thought that was Pacific time because im in estern
<bluesabre_> I'm in eastern too
<bluesabre_> 10 am eastern
<greenwolf> wow i was converting it from 10Pacific time so it would have been 1pm eastern
<greenwolf> but i guess i was wrong
<bluesabre_> Here's the minutes
<bluesabre_> http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2013/xubuntu-devel.2013-01-10-14.59.html
<greenwolf> were you here when they were discussing the topics?
<bluesabre_> that should have all the important stuff
<greenwolf> ok thanks
<bluesabre_> mr_pouit, glad to see parole 0.4 in the ppa, thanks!
<ochosi> +1, hopefully that means more bugreports
<Unit193> bluesabre_: Testing on quantal help any?  And what exactly do you want to be poked at?
<ochosi> Unit193: you mean parole-testing?
<Unit193> ochosi: Yes I do.
<ochosi> yup, quantal testing is helpful
<ochosi> we need general testing
<ochosi> but also specific testing directed at the new features
<ochosi> (codec-installer, audio-cds, dvds etc)
<Unit193> (I always end up purging it as that's the easiest way to unset it as default. :P )
<Unit193> Alright, I can remove a couple gstreamer packages.
<ochosi> mkay, thanks!
<Unit193> By default, it isn't default for mp4
<Unit193> Try to open a webm file and it just sits there.
<ochosi> does it work with totem?
<Unit193> I don't know, I'm testing parole, not totem. ;)
<Unit193> It does with VLC and Firefox, if that counts?
<ochosi> yeah, but i'm wondering whether it's a parole or a gstreamer issue
<Unit193> If I remember correctly, Xombrero uses gstreamer and it can play it.
<ochosi> is xombrero a video-player?
<Unit193> Browser. :P
<Unit193> gstreamer backend error: Could not read title information for DVD
<ochosi> i don't see any evidence of xombrero using gstreamer, rather seems it uses external apps like gnome-mplayer
<Unit193> Alright.  I can browse to the mounted dvd and almost play it, but once you find the correct VOB file, it's a little scrambled.  Not sure if gstreamer or parole, though.
<Unit193> There are seconds where you can hear and see right.
<ochosi> hm sounds more like a gst issue but not 100% sure
<ochosi> unfortunately i don't know of any other gstreamer players than totem you could test it with
<bluesabre_> Unit193: do you have libdvdcss2 installed?
<Unit193> Of course.
<bluesabre_> could you test with a different dvd maybe?
<Unit193> Yep.
<Unit193> Want without region code?
<bluesabre_> sure, why not :)
<Unit193> First, parole doesn't think I have a disk inserted.  (Grey, with "Insert Disk")
<ochosi> yeah, you need to mount it yourself
<ochosi> we're assuming ppl are using thunar with automount=yes
<Unit193> ochosi: VLC already played it...
<Unit193> I am.
<Unit193> Ejected, put back in, selected parole, wait, wait, select Play disk from the menu, gstreamer backend error.
<Unit193> Tried something new, the name of the disk pulls up, but this is the terminal output http://0bin.net/paste/2c860eb2d3c8d7e0fd02e10eafb06f9e0e005e05#Gaqq5SVS9163Yh6WQg0bKnGzKOszCix/XCgmMjJ2c/Y=
<Unit193> Note, dvd2, which I tried to select, is correct.
<bluesabre_> well, the good news is that this is probably not a regression
<bluesabre_> but a bug thats never been found
<bluesabre_> :D
<Unit193> Bleep.
<bluesabre_> I'll try to fix that tonight
<ochosi> dvd's are one of the least-tested things in parole for me
<Unit193> Sweet, thanks!  (For not making me report a bug! :D )
<Unit193> Ping me when you want me to reinstall it?
<bluesabre_> actually, I just forgot about it
<bluesabre_> could you log a bug?
<bluesabre_> :)
<bluesabre_> Ideally, it shouldn't be too hard to fix
<bluesabre_> Unless libdvdread is stupid
<Unit193> Is it needed if you're going to fix tonight?  Also, what do I put it in?
<bluesabre_> cannot play dvd
<bluesabre_> and paste that output
<bluesabre_> I might be able to fix it tonight, but my schedule is always crap
<bluesabre_> and unpredictable
<Unit193> Alrighty.
<Unit193> Bug #1098323   Sorry for it not being the best report. :P
<ubottu> bug 1098323 in parole (Ubuntu) "Parole failes to play DVD" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1098323
<Unit193> Oh, is there something I should do about webm?
<bluesabre_> thanks Unit193!
<ochosi> Unit193: maybe file another bug about that
<Unit193> bluesabre_: Sure.
<Unit193> ochosi: Not sure it's a bug yet, though.
<bluesabre_> alrighty, I should probably do some work while I'm at work today.  bbl
<Unit193> Adios.
#xubuntu-devel 2013-01-12
<pleia2> Xubuntu being deployed by the freegeek.org folks http://imgur.com/a/CDi50#3
<pleia2> trying to get an interview for a blog post
<Pezikrypt> Good evening. :)
<pleia2> hello Pezikrypt
<Pezikrypt> So, I was over in Reddit's SysAdmin chat and they suggested Xubuntu for me, since I have zero experience with anything.
<pleia2> well it's a desktop OS, not server
<Pezikrypt> I know.
<Pezikrypt> I'm just running it in a VM.
<pleia2> ah, I tend to think server when I think sysadmin :)
<Pezikrypt> Yeah, that's usually what they talk about.
<Pezikrypt> I'm just wanting to get some experience doing something... they suggested this.
<pleia2> well, this is the development channel if you're interested in contributing :) support is over in #xubuntu and we talk about random things over in #xubuntu-offtopic
<Pezikrypt> Awesome, thanks for the links! (I was just about to ask a question.) ;)
<pleia2> yeah, lots more people in the support channel so questions are best over there ;)
<Pezikrypt> Thanks. :)
<PROFESORLENIUCH> hi people
<PROFESORLENIUCH> somebody here?
<PROFESORLENIUCH> hmmm... probably not
<PROFESORLENIUCH> ok, see you!
<PROFESORLENIUCH> guys, is possible for help develop xubuntu?
<PROFESORLENIUCH> im new xubuntu user, im not programmer but what i can do for xubuntu? maybe donate?
<ochosi> currently we don't have anything set up for donations
<PROFESORLENIUCH> i will be back 5 min
<ochosi> but yeah, something like that might help get our developers together at ubuntu's developer conferences
<ochosi> generally filing bugs helps :)
<PROFESORLENIUCH> ok i back
<PROFESORLENIUCH> ok
<PROFESORLENIUCH> i will be back here, because I want do somethimg for Xubuntu.
<PROFESORLENIUCH> have a nice day xubuntu users
<PROFESORLENIUCH> bb
<bluesabre> just got a patch that gets gst1.0 working, have to rework it to work together with gst0.10
<bluesabre> ochosi ^
<PROFESORLENIUCH> wil check
<PROFESORLENIUCH> bb
#xubuntu-devel 2013-01-13
 * micahg has to look into why we're 1MB more oversized than 2 days ago
#xubuntu-devel 2014-01-06
<jarnos> brainwash_, but the PPA does not contain lightdm-gtk-greeter
<brainwash_> no? the PPA is called "
<brainwash_> LightDM GTK+ Greeter Daily"
<jarnos> brainwash_, ok
<jarnos> brainwash_, works better :)
<brainwash_> great that we got this sorted
<Unit193> http://packages.qa.debian.org/libx/libxfce4ui.html Well hey, we could actually try to get that from experimental.  That's one we pretty clearly need.
<Noskcaj> ochosi, Everything in debian (except indicator 1.0) is already merged, some need sponsoring. All released xfce 4.11 packages are in the debian svn
<ochosi> Unit193: how do these things get synced anyway?
<ochosi> or Noskcaj ^
<Unit193> ochosi: Automatic for anything in unstable where the Ubuntu version doesn't have ubuntu#
<ochosi> yeah, but if we need stuff from experimental
<Noskcaj> experimental or ubuntu changes need manual work. which i have done
<Unit193> The program 'requestsync' is in the ubuntu-dev-tools package.
<ochosi> Noskcaj: so what's in the sponsoring queue already and what still needs work?
<Noskcaj> ochosi, Just needs a sponsor
<ochosi> (sorry if i'm asking many questions now, but i really wanna get an overview over the situation now that the holidays are over)
<Noskcaj> it's fine. https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu/trusty/libxfce4ui/4.11/+merge/200196 is the libxfce4ui merge
<Noskcaj> Plus the light-locker fix and the new xfce4-terminal are in the queue
<Noskcaj> And i'm currently packaging the embed plugin
<ochosi> what light-locker fix are you referring to exactly?
<ochosi> the xflock patch?
<Noskcaj> yeah
<ochosi> well light-locker also needs to replace xscreensaver in the seed..
<ochosi> (in case you wanna do another MR)
<Unit193> ochosi: Already requested.
<ochosi> oh ok
<ochosi> so basically we have lots of stuff in the queue
<Noskcaj> sooooo much stuff
<ochosi> i asked for help in -motu yesterday
<Noskcaj> I have 50+ packages across debian and ubuntu waiting for sponsorship
<ochosi> xnox kindly offered some support for sponsorship of packages for xubuntu
 * knome crosses fingers that isn't because the "quantity before quality" -method
<ochosi> so for the really important ones i think we can ping him
<Noskcaj> knome, That have build up over the last 6 months
<Noskcaj> I have some in debian from when i first started packaging
<knome> no doubt :)
<slickymaster> Noskcaj, do you have a sec?
<Noskcaj> slickymaster, Sure
<slickymaster> Bug #1262492, do you really see it as a bug?
<ubottu> bug 1262492 in xfce4-panel (Ubuntu) "An empty launcher is created instead of a complete launcher in xfce panel" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1262492
<Noskcaj> slickymaster, I'm not sure. It would be nice to have the edit popup appear when you make a new launcher, but i can see that annoying people
<slickymaster> Noskcaj,  what I mean is that I see the reporter reasoning but it strikes me more as a wishlist that a bug
<slickymaster> than ^^
<ochosi> yeah, this should be a wishlist item imo
<ochosi> and it should be forwarded to upstream anyway
<Noskcaj> Priority should be wishlist, should be forwarded upstream with "feature request" in the title
<ochosi> it'll just rot in lp
<slickymaster> ochosi, yes, that's what I was thinking also
<slickymaster> since you marked as Confirmed, do you want to change it Noskcaj ?
<Noskcaj> I don't think i have triage rights
<knome> i might
<ochosi> night everyone
<Noskcaj> bye ochosi 
<slickymaster> cy tomorrow ochosi 
<slickymaster> knome, good
<knome> (but i don't know what you are talking about, so you might want to point me to the right direction)
<slickymaster> bug 1262492
<ubottu> bug 1262492 in xfce4-panel (Ubuntu) "An empty launcher is created instead of a complete launcher in xfce panel" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1262492
<slickymaster> knome, ^^^
<slickymaster> it strikes me more as a wishlist than a bug
<knome> set as "opinion"
<knome> LP doesn't have "wishlist"
<Noskcaj> knome, sure? It's still something people want fixed
<Noskcaj> And yes it does
<Noskcaj> In the "priority" section
<slickymaster> Noskcaj, exactly 
<knome> aha, right
<knome> yeah, me and my sloppy hands
<knome> it's fixed now
<knome> status: 	Confirmed â Won't Fix
<knome> status: 	Won't Fix â Opinion
<knome> importance: 	Undecided â Critical
<knome> importance: 	Critical â Wishlist
<knome> status: 	Opinion â Confirmed 
<knome> i only need 5 times!
<slickymaster> thing is that I think that someone in the bugsquad team 
<knome> /tries
<slickymaster> never mind 
<knome> lol
<Noskcaj> We probably need more people with triage rights in xubuntu
<slickymaster> +1 on that Noskcaj 
 * Noskcaj nominates slickymaster
 * slickymaster hides
<slickymaster> )
 * knome nominates Noskcaj as the head of all bugs and bees of xubuntu
<slickymaster> but I think you're right, Noskcaj. Do you know how many members of the team hold those rights
<slickymaster> ?
<Noskcaj> knome, If you want, but slickymaster does more triage than i do
<knome> Noskcaj, i was only half serious :P
<Noskcaj> And i'm guessing 0
<slickymaster> well, being in -qa kind of leads me to it
<knome> basically anybody who's interested should get that access, it isn't something that you need to do via xubuntu
<Noskcaj> Although elfy and pleia can give themselves themselves access because CC
<knome> some access is leaking to me too via various teams
<slickymaster> don't they already have them?
<knome> Pasi Lallinaho â Ubuntu Documentation Committers â Ubuntu Bug Control
<slickymaster> I mean elfy and pleia2?
<Noskcaj> maybe
<knome> i'm not sure
<knome> if they were wise, the CC was only the owner of certain teams, not a member
<slickymaster> but that's something that could be looked into
<knome> i guess they could grant themselves the access, but the whole point of the community stuff is that people do not do that, but actually earn the access
<slickymaster> does that requires an active roll in the bug squad?
<slickymaster> or there are other ways/teams?
<knome> i guess you first have to prove you are a worthy triager
<Noskcaj> slickymaster, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugControl
<knome> once you do that, you should get the membership and be in the team eternally
<slickymaster> Noskcaj, yeah, I'aware of that
<Noskcaj> just checking
<slickymaster> knome, not exactly. I'm a member of the BugSquad team but I don't have those rights
<knome> slickymaster, you need to be part of the bug control team to have *that*
<knome> but basically it's just more of the same
<knome> i should go to bed
<slickymaster> me, too. I'l be up in about 4 hours to work
<knome> heh
<knome> night, and good luck ;)
<slickymaster> tks. cy all tomorrow
<slickymaster> hace a good night
<slickymaster> have
<Noskcaj> g'night slickymaster, knome
<knome> night Noskcaj 
<knome> (or day)
<knome> ->
<Noskcaj> midday
<slickymaster> Noskcaj, cy
<Unit193> Dang, and right when I need the P a s i and master of all slickiness.
<Noskcaj> :)
<Unit193> Does LP automatically pull the pot file in and update the po files with it or something?
<Noskcaj> Depends on how you've set it up for a project
<Unit193> Well, I updated the pot and po files...
<Unit193> slickymaster: If you're crazy enough to read logs, not the intro is translated now: http://unit193.net/xubuntu/pt/
<Unit193> PT is in the best of shape, of course.
<Noskcaj> And now i'm in the bug control team, a whole 15 min after applying
<Noskcaj> :)
<Noskcaj> Guys, where's the upstream bugs/commits for the light-locker xflock4 fix?
<Noskcaj> logan wants the in #ubuntu-devel
<forestpiskie> Noskcaj: do you have any idea how much havoc could be wreaked by an elfy having anything to do with triage ... I am positive that you will find that pleia2 and I only appear to have them because CC owns the teams below it 
<Noskcaj> ok
<elfy> !team |did knome fix it yet :)
<ubottu> did knome fix it yet :): bluesabre, elfy, GridCube, jjfrv8, knome, micahg, mr_pouit, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, Unit193
<elfy> nope
 * Unit193 knows someone likes that trigger...
<elfy> I shall abuse the bot until the factoid is correct :p
<Unit193> Fix what?
<xnox> ochosi: knome: Noskcaj: i'm a DD so can sponsor things into debian as well. And well, when sponsoring packages i do review them and ask for things to be fixed up, i don't just blindly dput stuff.
 * Unit193 notes that he should bother xnox about a QA upload. :P
<Unit193> (Kidding.)
<elfy> bad bad Unit193 
<Noskcaj> xnox, Well i've got at least 50
<elfy> I'd guess xnox is facepalming now ... :)
<xnox> Noskcaj: if it's not on mentors.debian.net or not in http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/ they don't count. And I did do a few of yours not so long ago.
<Noskcaj> etm-qt in the PAPT, audicious* in pkg-multimedia, 10 in pkg gnome, 13 in mentors (a few aren't actually needing sponsoring there, but gambc really does),  24 in the sponsor queue
<Noskcaj> that enough ;)
<Noskcaj> Please do a few
<Noskcaj> elfy, Why am i not in !team ? or the other two new guys
<elfy> because XPL hasn't done it yet I guess - I'm on the hassling detail for that :)
<elfy> it'll get done I'm sure :)
<Unit193> elfy: At least I was kidding, though I need to find it nevertheless. :P
<elfy> Unit193: find what?
<elfy> ochosi: not got time to look further atm but - suspend seems to just locking - not going down - just cycling to login screen
<TESTER> Hi, where are Xubuntu 12.04 Alternate Images to test?
<TESTER> Sorry, of course 14.04!!!
<ochosi> Noskcaj: when talking about uploads that others could do for us, please focus on those that we urgently need in 14.04
<Noskcaj> TESTER, Sorry, only lubuntu, ubuntu-server, and netboot have alternate installs
<ochosi> i.e. the three packages for indicators, etc
<Noskcaj> ochosi, yeah. will do. I've got logan looking at xflock, he just wants an upstream bug(fix) or gt commit first
<ochosi> Noskcaj: yeah, well that means it might take ages
<Noskcaj> xnox, If you're still around, https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu/trusty/libxfce4ui/4.11/+merge/200196 is the highest priority merge
<ochosi> but really, panel and indicators should be the first thing to go in imo
<ochosi> yup, let's start with that
<TESTER> 14.04 will be based on XFCE 4.11 ???
<Noskcaj> TESTER, Parts of it
<ochosi> xnox: thanks, i really appreciate that you don't just blindly dput stuff :) we'll try to only ask you for help where certain quality standards are met
<ochosi> k, g2g, have a fun day everyone
<Noskcaj> Yeah, i need sleep now. bye ochosi
<TESTER> Noskcaj - so I have to use Lubuntu Iso and then install xfce-desktop (if there is such a thing) when I want to encrypt whole harddisk?
<ochosi> elfy: i guess looking at the logs would be a good step here
<TESTER> I have 4.12 runnig fine on 12.04 - is needed for multi monitor support, should be in 14.04
<slickymaster> morning all
<knome> the !team factoid is updated.
<rowboatnick> !team
<ubottu> bluesabre, elfy, GridCube, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, mr_pouit, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit193
<elfy> knome: thanks :)
<knome> rowboatnick, well there was no reason to test it and poke everybody :P
<rowboatnick> knome: i had to know :(
<elfy> bad rowboatnick :)
<knome> rowboatnick, /msg ubottu !team-#xubuntu-devel
<lderan> \o/
<jarnos> ochosi, as for light-locker, isn't the lightdm-gtk-greeter going to be too old in Trusty for it?
<jarnos> ochosi, it might be good to have a mature xscreensaver bundled with Xubuntu; Lubuntu 13.10 uses the greeter in lxlock that is LXDE equivalent of xflock4, and it introduced a critical security bug that has still not been fixed in updates.
<jarnos> brainwash, hi,  isn't the lightdm-gtk-greeter going to be too old for light-locker in Trusty?
<brainwash> jarnos: no, trusty will ship with version 1.8 I think
<jarnos> brainwash, so you can't trust http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=%20lightdm-gtk-greeter&searchon=names&suite=all&section=all
<brainwash> well, it will be version 1.7.0 at least
<brainwash> jarnos: trusty is still in development, many packages will be updated in the next months
<brainwash> and version 1.7.0 has been released like 1(?) week ago
<jarnos> ochosi, this is the bug with lxlock: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lxsession/+bug/1205384
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1205384 in lxsession (Ubuntu) "Lock can be circumvented by switching to console" [High,In progress]
<brainwash> still not fixed in the official repo?
<brainwash> wow, a critical bug should be fixed asap
<jarnos> brainwash, right
<jarnos> brainwash, and the bug report was made more thant two months before release of Lubuntu 13.10! 
<jarnos> brainwash, I don't know what they are thinking. It would be easy to modify lxlock as a workaround.
<brainwash> jarnos: sad story, hopefully there will be a happy ending
<brainwash> most users are not aware of this security issue :/
<jarnos> brainwash, at least information about it was added (long after release) to release notes of Lubuntu 13.10, after I requested it.
<jarnos> brainwash, but that does not help people that installed Lubuntu 13.10 before that.
<ochosi> jarnos: this is exactly what light-locker fixes
<ochosi> i told the lubuntu guys long ago
<ochosi> bbl
<brainwash> ochosi: so bug 1264563 won't be fixed in lightdm
<ubottu> bug 1264563 in LightDM GTK+ Greeter "switch-to-greeter does not set lock hint" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1264563
<brainwash> does the patch for lightdm-gtk-greeter break any functionality of the greeter? is it bad if the greeter checks for logged in users even on a fresh boot?
<ochosi> brainwash: yes, i read, it's fine i'll take care of the greeter soon
<brainwash> ok :)
<slickymaster> bbl
<jarnos> ochosi, in some cases I have ended up with situation where all displays remain blanked even if I move mouse, when I use light-locker from daily PPA.
<brainwash> jarnos: did you try to switch to vt7 and back?
<jarnos> brainwash, yes, but it didn't help. I had to reboot.
<brainwash> so typing the password blindly did not work either?
<brainwash> light-locker does not blank the screen, lightdm-gtk-greeter tells the X server to do so
<brainwash> there might be error messages in your Xorg or lightdm log files
<brainwash> /var/log/lightdm
<elfy> oi/
<jarnos> brainwash, you mean ERROR?
<jarnos> brainwash, anyway, was using a laptop with (only) an external display enabled.
<jarnos> brainwash, I did not notice any ERROR messages in recent logs at /var/log/lightdm
<brainwash> jarnos: don't know what might cause this faulty behavior
<brainwash> at least create a bug report and attach the greeter log files and so on
<brainwash> the screen does not unblank after manual locking, right?
<brainwash> try to reproduce it by running "dm-tool lock"
<jarnos> brainwash, when I use it, it also blanks screen, doesn't respond to mouse, but Ctrl-Alt-F7 unlocks.
<brainwash> jarnos: https://bugs.launchpad.net/lightdm-gtk-greeter/+filebug
<brainwash> :P
<jarnos> brainwash, maybe later, I am busy.
<pmjdebru2jn> hi
<pmjdebru2jn> is anybody here aware of anything special with regard to scrollbar theming on xubuntu?
<pmjdebru2jn> I have an application of which scrollbars a differently themed on xubuntu than on ubuntu
<pmjdebru2jn> and the application explicitly loads it's own clearlooks based theme 
<pmjdebru2jn> (special purpose app)
<brainwash> ubuntu/unity uses overlay scrollbars
<brainwash> special purpose app? sounds mysterious
<ochosi> hey pmjdebru2jn 
<ochosi> there's nothing special happening really
<ochosi> our themes use murrine's gtk-scrollbar theming in gtk2 and the default engine in gtk3
<pmjdebru2jn> I know about the overlay stuff, but that's not what I meant
<pmjdebru2jn> even with overlay scrollbars disabled, it looks like I'd expect on ubuntu
<pmjdebru2jn> in xubuntu the scrollbars are recessed
<ochosi> if you need help and it should remain secret feel free to PM me with more specifics
<pmjdebru2jn> app = darktable (for photography, so it has a dark neutral theme)
<pmjdebru2jn> I guess I should upload some screenshots
<ochosi> yeah, that'd be helpful
<ochosi> but i can also install it and see what's going on
<ochosi> i suspect it's a problem of the combination of your rc-files in darktable and options we set in out themes
<ochosi> what version of darktable are we talking about and what would be the most straightforward way to get it in 13.10?
<pmjdebru2jn> oh
<pmjdebru2jn> sudo apt-add-repository ppa:pmjdebruijn/darktable-unstable :D
<pmjdebru2jn> my ppas are the official project ppas :)
<ochosi> thought so :)
<ochosi> i presume we're talking gtk2?
<pmjdebru2jn> yes
<pmjdebru2jn> indeed
<pmjdebru2jn> we mostly use clearlooks
<pmjdebru2jn> gtk2-engines
<pmjdebru2jn> the basic theme is a modified version from something from art.gnome.org, which someone else modified
<pmjdebru2jn> and now I'm fiddling with it
<pmjdebru2jn> :)
<pmjdebru2jn> practically it's fine, but cosmetically it's a bit ugly on xubuntu now
<ochosi> yeah, but xubuntu doesn't have clearlooks installed by default
<pmjdebru2jn> initially I though it was the shadow-type thing, but that's set to GTK_SHADOW_NONE
<ochosi> just for starters
<pmjdebru2jn> ochosi: the package pulls in gtk2-engines
<ochosi> oh, you install it
<ochosi> yeah, just saw it
<ochosi> why not just modify the colors?
<ochosi> is it really necessary to modify the whole theme looks?
<pmjdebru2jn> not per-se
<pmjdebru2jn> well
<pmjdebru2jn> then again
<ochosi> would make the looks of darktable more integrated
<ochosi> (is my first thought)
<pmjdebru2jn> the more we leave to chance, the more can go wrong
<pmjdebru2jn> ochosi: we don't want to look integrated
<pmjdebru2jn> we have lots of custom widgets too
<pmjdebru2jn> so by itself looking "integrated" really isn't a concern
<pmjdebru2jn> it's basically just another vector for unexpected issues
<ochosi> right, i understand
<ochosi> so, i see the scrollbars now
<ochosi> what seems to be the issue?
<ochosi> or: how should they look?
<pmjdebru2jn> there's an extra sunk in bevel around the scrollbars at the sides
<pmjdebru2jn> when I do export LIBOVERLAY_SCROLLBAR=0
<pmjdebru2jn> they are not there on ubuntu
<pmjdebru2jn> you do see what I mean right?
<ochosi> pmjdebru2jn: extra sunk bevel? you mean the scrollbar trough?
<ochosi> i guess i should load some pics in...
<pmjdebru2jn> ochosi: the scrollbars are forced on at the sides
<ochosi> yeah, i see them there
<ochosi> they're a bit bulky
<ochosi> and there's no visible trough
<ochosi> do you have a screener of what it should look like?
<pmjdebru2jn> let me make one
<ochosi> thanks
<ochosi> that'd be helpful
<pmjdebru2jn> https://encrypted.pcode.nl/files/temp/dt-ubuntu.png
<ochosi> ok, the reason is simple
<ochosi> now that i see it :)
<ochosi> where is your rc file, then i can try to quickly patch it
<pmjdebru2jn> /usr/share/darktable/darktable.gtkrc
<ochosi> pmjdebru2jn: this should fix your issue mostly: http://dpaste.com/1539527/
<ochosi> there could be more to fix, but try that first and lemme know whether that's what you expected
<pmjdebru2jn> ah cool, let me look
<pmjdebru2jn> ochosi: I don't think that makes a difference over here
<ochosi> are you sure?
<ochosi> that's weird
<pmjdebru2jn> insert at line 28 right?
<ochosi> well the line number doesn't matter really
<pmjdebru2jn> those property are button related?
<pmjdebru2jn> aren't they?
<ochosi> this is about overruling the theme deactivating the scrollbar steppers
<ochosi> cause that's all that really happens
<ochosi> if you use bluebird for example, that problem shouldn't occur
<ochosi> (just to quickly test)
<ochosi> or use albatross
<ochosi> those themes don't deactivate the steppers, so things should look normal
<pmjdebru2jn> ah it's fine with albatross indeed
<Unit193> How about that, gtk2 indicator lands.
<brainwash> so now we only need the patched power manager and saucy will be ready for release :P
<brainwash> Unit193: do you plan to keep your Xfce PPA up-to-date?
<brainwash> xfwm4 + xfdesktop
<Unit193> brainwash: I don't see why not, but note that it's the tabwin branch, not xfwm/master.
<brainwash> yeah, your PPA is great for testing recent fixes and the seamless background transition
<brainwash> tabwin won't be ready for trusty, or?
<Unit193> It'd be ready, but perhaps not merged.
<Noskcaj> Just wondering, can't forestpiskie  sponsor stuff for us because Community Council gives access to core-dev?
<Unit193> Not without major abuse of power.
<Unit193> He also won't because he doesn't touch voodoo.
<slickymaster> night all
<Noskcaj> hey slickymaster
<slickymaster> hey Noskcaj 
<Noskcaj> So i'l in bug control now.
<Noskcaj> *i'm
<slickymaster> great
<slickymaster> but do you mean bug sqaud?
<Noskcaj> Now i just need one of the admins to actually put me in the team
<Noskcaj> bugcontrol = can set priority and target release
<slickymaster> Noskcaj, isn't bug control a restricted team?
<Noskcaj> slickymaster, yeah
<Noskcaj> I applied yesterday and got the required number of +1s
<slickymaster> that's great, we sure need some more members with those rights
<slickymaster> Noskcaj, you can ping bdmurray on that
<Noskcaj> I don't have time now, but i will
<slickymaster> great
<brainwash> can anyone verify that the proposed xfce4-terminal package works in saucy? bug 1206739
<ubottu> bug 1206739 in xfce4-terminal (Ubuntu Saucy) "xfce4-terminal crashed with SIGSEGV in magazine_chain_pop_head()" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1206739
<brainwash> looks like the package is stuck in proposed since 2013-11-12
#xubuntu-devel 2014-01-07
<ali1234> bug 1263591
<ubottu> bug 1263591 in gnome-panel (Ubuntu) "Add notification-area to panel-default-layout.layout" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1263591
<Unit193> knome: For later, reminding that you didn't push all changes for pt.po.
<knome> mm,
<knome> i didn't do all changes yet
<knome> remind me again then :P
<pmjdebru2jn> ochosi: thanks for the help the other day
<ochosi> pmjdebru2jn: di niente :)
<pmjdebru2jn> while I'm at it, I do wonder about another thing
<ochosi> sure
<pmjdebru2jn> in some instances we (=darktable) launch firefox, which seems to inherent parts of our theming
<pmjdebru2jn> which makes it look ugly
<pmjdebru2jn> any tips where to look?
<ochosi> does it just inherit parts?
<pmjdebru2jn> to be honest I haven't invested much time into that yet, but i sortof want to give it a go to get that fixed
<pmjdebru2jn> IIRC
<ochosi> hm, ok
<pmjdebru2jn> I can check tonight
 * pmjdebru2jn can't right now
<ochosi> no problem
<ochosi> i presume that an app inherits the gtk-theming settings when it's launched from another ap
<ochosi> p
<ochosi> i've never done that before, so it might as well be firefox/XUL specific
<pmjdebru2jn> hmm ok
<ochosi> the only thing i can think of off the top of my head how to fix that is to load the default gtkrc file when launching firefox
<pmjdebru2jn> ok
<ochosi> you can set specific rc files for apps when launching them (i guess you know that)
<pmjdebru2jn> tonight I'll look into the coe, how we launch firefox
<ochosi> so this is how i'd try to tackle that
<pmjdebru2jn> I'll do some digging
<pmjdebru2jn> thanks
<ochosi> either load /home/$user/.gtkrc-2.0 (and hope that if that doesn't exist that it'll fall back to the system theme)
<ochosi> or try to determine the currently-in-use theme somehow and load that
<ochosi> not sure whether there are builtin calls for the latter in gtk2
<ochosi> might turn out to be complicated
<ochosi> trying to load a non-existant gtkrc-2.0 file could also result in nothing though, as it could fall back to your darktable rc
<ochosi> so as you can see, lotsa guessing :)
<ochosi> best to get in touch with me again once you can take a real look at it
<slickymaster> morning all
<ochosi> morning
<slickymaster> hey ochosi 
<ochosi> ali1234: so since there is a xubuntu-specific part of the whole problem, what's your opinion on what we should use for 14.04?
<ali1234> i got no idea
<ochosi> i guess we could throw together a gnome-screensaver version forked from 3.6 that looks like our greeter and has no gnome depends
<ali1234> i don't even use a screensaver or lock my computer
<ali1234> what was used in 13.10?
<ochosi> xscreensaver
<ochosi> (we've used that for ages)
<ali1234> we should probably just use that, assuming it works
<ali1234> it is LTS after all
<ali1234> what screensaver is used in ubuntu-desktop?
<ochosi> gnome-screensaver
<ochosi> but it has lotsa gnome-depends that we don't want
<ochosi> something like gnome-settings-daemon etc
<ali1234> well if we're going to do this, they might want to use it too - eg if possible we should support unity-greeter as well
<ali1234> if only so that there's more people to support the code
<ochosi> i agree
<ochosi> forking gnome-screensaver can be done by going back in history in the light-locker git-repo a bit
<ali1234> it's probably something for 14.10 though
<ochosi> we started by stripping out gnome-depends
<ochosi> yeah, i guess, unless it works really well :)
<ali1234> first step would be investigating/documenting the interface between dm and greeter
<ali1234> depending on how that looks will determine how hard it is
<ochosi> i think it would be ideal to talk to robert_ancell before we start anything
<ochosi> he can tell us, since he's the author of lightdm (and he's usually quite responsive)
<ali1234> yeah
<ochosi> initially, we started like this
<ochosi> we basically set up gnome-screensaver to lock the screen
<ochosi> and then if you'd go to "switch user" that would do the VT switch (also from the lock-screen)
<ochosi> but if you decide to unlock your session then from the greeter instead of from gnome-screensaver (i.e.VT8 instead of VT7) gnome-screensaver needs to listen to CK signals to unlock automatically, so you don't have to enter your pwd twice
<ochosi> and after we did all that and it seemed complicated, we thought it's ideal to use the greeter directly as lockscreen
<ochosi> some of the issues (like powermanagement in a multi-user env in the greeter) remain even with the solution of using a locker on the same VT
<ochosi> ali1234: one problem of using the greeter for the "first" lockscreen, is that it allows user-switching directly
<ali1234> well it has a "lock mode" option right?
<ochosi> so lightdm would definitely have to modified to support that, or greeters would have to use the lock_hint to suppress user-switching
<ali1234> the greeter will certainly need to be modified a bit to support this
<ali1234> yeah, lock hint
<ochosi> so something like an extra button for user-switching would have to be added to open the greeter again on another VT with full capabilities
<ochosi> (the elegant solution would be to only open the new VT after entering the new credentials in the greeter)
<ali1234> sounds like it's getting complicated
<ochosi> well if you want a really elegant solution, i guess the best way would be to extend lightdm with locking capabilities instead of trying to make gnome-.screensaver play dm
<ochosi> (basically what gnome3 did, from what i read)
<ali1234> hmm
<ochosi> anyway, if we wanna do it the gnome-screensaver-way, the first stage should be simple
<ochosi> having a gnome-free locker with UI that responds to unlock signals from the greeter
<ali1234> i don't think extending lightdm would necessarily be any easier
<ali1234> i mean it would still need a whole bunch of different code to make it work
<ochosi> yeah, and secure locking isn't trivial at all...
<ochosi> need to talk to cavalier about this
<ochosi> xnox: this is one of our most-needed fixes (if you have time to look at it), with these fixes our live session should work again as expected (courtesy of Unit193): https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/xubuntu-default-settings/session-fix/+merge/198177
<brainwash> ochosi: do you think that adding hover activation for gtk3 indicators might be a good idea? I'm not sure if I should request this (optional) feature
<ochosi> brainwash: i'm not really fond of the idea
<ochosi> there is no hover-activation anywhere else
<ochosi> so it wouldn't be very intuitive, just annoying i suppose
<brainwash> right, it would be disabled by default
<ochosi> yeah, but why would you want it?
<ochosi> the rest of the panel would still need you to click
<brainwash> Unity does it and I like it
<ochosi> so it'd be a very isolated behavior
<ochosi> gmusicbrowser has hover-activation of it's tray-popover, and luckily introduced a timeout, because it was really annoying
<brainwash> but you could setup an only gtk3 indi panel
<brainwash> well, almost
<brainwash> I'll try to code it myself, sounds like fun
<brainwash> oh, any idea why shadows for xfce4-panel are not possible right now? any specific limitations?
<ochosi> shadows?
<ochosi> you mean below?
<brainwash> yes, drop shadow
<brainwash> (like Unity does)
<brainwash> :D
<ochosi> they only ever worked briefly, xfwm doesn't draw that kind of shadow
<ochosi> seems like you wanna use Unity? :)
<brainwash> I want to make Xfce the better Unity
<ochosi> same with xfce4-notifyd, that also doesn't have shadows for the same reason (iirc)
<brainwash> ok
<knome> "no, i don't want to use unity, just the features that are in it!"
<brainwash> hover activation and a drop shadow.. this won't turn Xfce into Unity :)
<brainwash> just some small things to make it more awesome (optional ofc)
<ali1234> i want to use unity but without the features
<ali1234> no hover activation
<ali1234> and definitely no drop shadows unless they are in the theme
<ali1234> unity's stupid drop shadow causes so many problems
<brainwash> talking about unity reminds me that I wanted to re-test XMir
<brainwash> to see if it improved
<ochosi> brainwash: please test it with nvidia :}
<brainwash> only got AMD and intel
<brainwash> the major issue back then was the software cursor
<brainwash> too bad that we don't keep an eye on XMir anymore
<brainwash> a solid LTS release is more important 
<micahg_> hi all, sorry, was not feeling well most of last week
<slickymaster> ochosi: PING
 * slickymaster damns the Caps Lock on
<elfy> ochosi: just so you are aware - I've absolutely no idea what that odd suspend reboot issue I was having was - but since then this machine's not been 'off' suspend and lock is all I've done
<slickymaster> hey elfy
<elfy> micahg: such is real life - hope you're better now
<elfy> hi slickymaster - congrats on team :)
<slickymaster> thanks
<elfy> I see you've been busy too
<elfy> had that merge you got k to do on my list for this evening 
<slickymaster> elfy: that's why I was going to poke you
<slickymaster> I've also updated Trello and the blueprint on that
<elfy> yep - saw the blueprint - not been to the board yet
<slickymaster> I'll try to get bug 1256898 done this weel, also
<ubottu> bug 1256898 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "Test Needed : xfce4 session handling" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1256898
<pmjdebru2jn> ochosi: it was so trivial (at the theme inheritance)
<pmjdebru2jn> I just had another look (I also did a while ago, but gave up)
<slickymaster> just wanting to finish the xfdesktop docs for ochosi before it
<pmjdebru2jn> https://github.com/darktable-org/darktable/commit/3801fc3acc8ee1d3fc19b7fedd1724acf2b8e416
<pmjdebru2jn> sorry for the offtopic bit
<elfy> slickymaster: ok - I'll be on the week off cycle Thursday so will have much more time - and health is much improved
<elfy> slickymaster: yep - I saw that too - docs is important :)
<slickymaster> elfy: that's good to ear, and it's what I call good news
<elfy> thanks :)
<elfy> hi pmjdebru2jn 
<pmjdebru2jn> lo
<elfy> slickymaster: I think the only test we need to replace now we've lost the old post install tests is the bluetooth one
 * elfy got a couple of merge requests to get seen to
<slickymaster> elfy: are you referring to http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-testcase/ubuntu-manual-tests/trunk/view/head:/testcases/packages/1591_Blueman ?
<elfy> aah yes - that was it - thanks :D
<slickymaster> elfy: well, if i manage to get my hands on a device with bluetooth, I'll do it
<elfy> needed to make sure that was a replacement for our old test - then we just need to add the 3 - multi mons/bluetooth/suspend in somewhere useful
<elfy> oh cool
<elfy> my thinking is that the old suspend test should now be part of the lightlocker testing 
<elfy> knome slickymaster ^^
<slickymaster> my cell phone is kind of pre-historical and doesn't have it
<elfy> Unit193 lderan ^^ you 2 too - given your in that team ;)
<elfy> slickymaster: my phone has bluetooth - but none of the PCs/lappies do :)
<elfy> slickymaster: you at a machine with xubuntu on it?
<elfy> or at work without?
<slickymaster> at work with boxes, one saucy and one trusty
<slickymaster> two ^^
<elfy> iuf you get time with the trusty one - can you have a look - panel prefs - display tab 
<elfy> http://imgur.com/2cVgrlj,94e3V4T#1 - can you check the tooltips - mine are fubar
<slickymaster> do you want a screenshot of mine?
<elfy> ochosi: doesn't see it , but I'm possibly going to drop a line to the m/l re it - especially if people using the ppa's respond
<elfy> slickymaster: no need for a screeny if the tooltips are correct
<elfy> or if not either :) just let me know what you see
<slickymaster> mine is quite similar to yours, besides the fact that I have the "Don't reserve space on borders" option ticked
<elfy> so your tooltips for don't reserve is wrong as well? 
<slickymaster> other than that everything seems ok with yours
<slickymaster> how come wrong?!
<slickymaster> The way I read it, the label is correct
<elfy> check my screenshots - there are two images there
<slickymaster> oh wait
<slickymaster> I just saw the first one
<elfy> :)
<slickymaster> no, mine are correct for each of them
<slickymaster> na I see what you mean
<elfy> ok - thanks
<slickymaster> yours, aren't
<elfy> yep - the don't reserve is wrong 
<slickymaster> I'm running 4.10.1-1ubuntu2 version though
<slickymaster> elfy xfce-panel ^^
<elfy> 4.11.0~1.master.gitd296ca7-0ubuntu1~ppa0.14.04
<slickymaster> elfy: that's probably why mine are correct and yours aren't
<slickymaster> but I can get that PPA and check how does it works on this box
<slickymaster> elfy: it's Jackson's PPA, right?
<elfy> it's ok - I've sent a quick mail to the list - ochosi wasn't too concerned, I just want a quick check
<slickymaster> ok, if you want me to confirm it later on, just ping me on it
<elfy> yes it's jackson's - but I'll be more concerned if I see it when the stuff gets into install
<elfy> slickymaster: k - thanks :)
<slickymaster> np
<slickymaster> bbl
<elfy> cheerio
<brainwash> elfy: what is fubar about the tooltips?
<elfy> http://i.imgur.com/2cVgrlj.png
<elfy> I have the same tootip for hide panel and don't reserve :)
<brainwash> using the same package and it's fine here
<elfy> odd - on the bright side it's probably just here and I picked up on it 
<brainwash> elfy: it always looks like I cannot confirm the bugs you encounter and vice versa
<brainwash> you only test inside a vm, right? shouldn't matter most of the time anyway
<ali1234> elfy: same here
<ali1234> elfy: could be a translation issue
<elfy> brainwash: not at all - this machine is a real one - I use it and have been using it since more or less the beginning - though this particular install is only a few weeks old - vanilla plus the 4 ppa's for tabwin/panel etc
<elfy> ali1234: ok - cheers - thought I was losing the plot :)
<ali1234> elfy: using en_GB by any chance?
<brainwash> en_US here
<elfy> brainwash: though I do test images with both hardware and vm
<elfy> ali1234: yep
<ali1234> looks like somebody goofed and copy pasted the same translation multiple times
<elfy> yep - that confirms that then - switched to US and all was fine
<elfy> bbl
<ali1234> yeah it's definitely a problem in the po file... i'm looking at it right now
<ali1234> bug was introduced in the most recent commit
<elfy> that's probably the sort of thing it might be good for me to look at, being voodoo averse - I guess it's quite logical to see where it's wrong
<ali1234> https://www.transifex.com/projects/p/xfce4-panel/viewstrings/#en_GB/master/13936244?q=if%20you%20want%20maximized%20windows
<ali1234> the two translations are right next to each other in the file too
<elfy> not got login to that
<ali1234> oh :(
<ali1234> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-panel/tree/po/en_GB.po#n421 <- here's the source
<ali1234> translations are done on transifex and autoimported though
<elfy> right
<ali1234> i have login but no access to work on the translations
<elfy> I'll have a look a bit later - see if I can see anything other than gobbledygook :)
<ali1234> Noskcaj: can you fix this?
<Noskcaj> ali1234, What's the issue?
<ali1234> the en+GB translation is messed... some copy paste error
<ali1234> https://www.transifex.com/projects/p/xfce4-panel/viewstrings/#en_GB/master/13936244?q=if%20you%20want%20maximized%20windows
<ali1234> the "translation" is a copy paste... but it's a copy paste from the wrong origin
<Noskcaj> yeah. I have translation rights, just let me remember how to edit
<ali1234> also, general advice on what to do with translation bugs would be appreciated
<Noskcaj> I'm guessing contact someone who will fixit. If you can't, file a bug of the bugzilla
<ali1234> if i patch the po by hand, will that mess up transifex? or is it bidirectional?
<Unit193> brainwash: I more or less do with XMir, but I've been waiting for the archive to land 0.1.3 before doing anything, and it's really lagging.
<Noskcaj> ali1234, I think it's bidirectional
<Noskcaj> Fixed
<ali1234> thanks
<micahg> elfy: getting there
<elfy> ali1234: well if nothing else - that is all logical enough for me to see where it's wrong :)
<elfy> micahg: good - I feel your pain
<elfy> who's this guy who keeps posting on xubuntu bugs and then thinking they're ubuntu ones 
<elfy> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/1171411
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1171411 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "xfwm4 may show display distortions, when using compositing on intel with sna" [Low,Incomplete]
 * pmjdebru2jn has 117411 too
<ali1234> elfy: penalvch?
<pmjdebru2jn> but only the stipled borders
<Unit193> elfy: Someone that's not doing a good job with the scripts, didn't replace the bug number either. :/
#xubuntu-devel 2014-01-08
<elfy> knome: thoughts on this - bug 1266032
<ubottu> bug 1266032 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "Xubuntu - post install testcase for power options" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1266032
<elfy> Noskcaj: are we? "We're discussing changing to libreoffice"
<elfy> last I saw we'd discussed it and weren't doing anything
<Noskcaj> elfy, We'll end up discussing it for 14.10, but i doubt we'll do anything for 14.04. It's what the guy wants to here, rather than "we might fix this, eventually"
<ali1234> well i think we should switch sooner rather than later
<ali1234> abiword and gnumeric just don't cut it
<ali1234> otoh i don't use them often anyway and could probably manage without any off ice stuff on the install cd
<elfy> personally I'm in the meh stands - I'm not worried about abiword/gnumeric being there - I install -calc when I install - all I need
<Unit193> -calc -gtk -writer
<elfy> oh yea - I usually end up with writer as well
<Noskcaj> libxfce4ui is getting uploaded now, i'll be safe to drop it from my ppa for trusty
<Unit193> Should wait for it to filter down to release of course.
<Unit193> But yeah, that's the plan.
<ochosi> Noskcaj: nice, who's doing the honors?
<Unit193> Noskcaj: Could update xubuntu-docs' d/changelog to format 1.0 if you were bored. :P
<slickymaster> morning all
<ochosi> morning
<ochosi> have any of you used xfburn recently?
<ochosi> specifically, for burning dvds
<slickymaster> ochosi do you have 5 minutes to discuss something about eric_the_idiot views on xfdesktop
<ochosi> slickymaster: sure, shoot
<slickymaster> ochosi: eric points that the gtk_file_chooser in folder mode can be confusing and the user might try to pick the individual files rather than hitting open once they are in the desired folder
<slickymaster> but the user has to click at the desired image, right?
<slickymaster> ochosi: thing is, I don't see any 'open' button
<ochosi> click the folder-combobox -> other
<ochosi> i'm pretty sure that's what he's talking about
<ochosi> part of the problem is that the window-title says "open file"
<slickymaster> ochosi: ok, that one is covered
<ochosi> which is really misleading
<ochosi> not sure how easily that can be fixed though, as it's a dialog straight from gtk
<slickymaster> another thing, the âChronologicallyâ option. He mentions something about that you both worked on. What is this?
<ochosi> what he refers to is that you can change the background at certain times/intervals of the day
<ochosi> so theoretically, you could show them based on when they were taken (timestamp)
<ochosi> which could be quite cool, so e.g. around 4 o'clock you'd only get pics that were taken around that time of the day
<slickymaster> but that's already covered in the usage section
<ochosi> yeah, but this hasn't been implemented
<ochosi> chronologically just goes through the images, but not based on their timestamps
<ochosi> try it, it goes through them in their sort-order
<slickymaster> I'll try it
<slickymaster> one last thing, the removable devices expander
<ochosi> so if you have e.g. a folder with 5 pics, named pic_05.jpg, pic_20.jpg ..., it'll sort them according to filename and then spread them equally over one day
<ochosi> yup?
<slickymaster> is this also related to the backdrop gtk_file_chooser in folder mode?
<ochosi> sry, i don't understand
<slickymaster> he mentions that the removable devices expander isn't covered?
<ochosi> this is just an expander that let's you distinguish between different types of devices: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-01082014-105917am.php
<slickymaster> ah, now I see to what it's related
<slickymaster> ochosi: that coverered everything
<slickymaster> thanks
<slickymaster> I'll ping you when I'll get everything done
<ochosi> slickymaster: thanks a lot!
<slickymaster> np
<ochosi> ali1234: mind if i ask you a quick question wrt the background pixmap in the greeter?
<ali1234> sure
<ochosi> i think drawing the bg pixmap correctly behind the login_window won't be a problem, but somehow getting the reference to the background pixmap doesn't work
<ochosi> what i tried so far is adding a global_var that holds a copy of this pixbuf: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lightdm-gtk-greeter-team/lightdm-gtk-greeter/trunk/view/head:/src/lightdm-gtk-greeter.c#L1687
<ochosi> this would be the most minimal diff to illustrate what i'm trying: http://dpaste.com/1541422/
<ochosi> when i then try to gdk_cairo_set_source_pixbuf (cr, background_pixbuf, 0, 0); in the draw-callback, the greeter shows itself for a splitsecond, then crashe
<ochosi> s
<ochosi> (and oddly my logs are pretty empty, so i'm a bit stumped)
<ochosi> i might be trying things the totally wrong way though...
<ali1234> ok.
<ali1234> X11 pixmaps are reference counted inside the server
<ali1234> when you XFree it, it really decrements the counter
<ali1234> actually which pixmap are you talking about?
<ochosi> sorry, line fail, i meant this one http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lightdm-gtk-greeter-team/lightdm-gtk-greeter/trunk/view/head:/src/lightdm-gtk-greeter.c#L1686
<ali1234> ok so notice that p *might* get unrefed
<ali1234> where exactly did you copy the variable?
<ochosi> directly after 1687
<ali1234> right so that's absolutely wrong :)
<ochosi> line 16 here: http://dpaste.com/1541422/
<ochosi> ok :)
<ali1234> look at those "g_object_unref" calls
<ali1234> look at line 1701
<ochosi> yeah, it gets unrefd there, which is why i thought i have to copy it before that happens
<ali1234> right but you can't just copy the pointer (lol)
<ali1234> what you have to do is ... not unref it until you are done
<ali1234> so line 1701
<ali1234> replace it with this: if(background_pixmap) { g_object_unref(background_pixmap); } background_pixmap = p;
<ali1234> and make sure that background_pixmap is initialized to null
<ochosi> yup, did initialize that to null
<ali1234> and then g_object_unref(background_pixmap); before exiting the greeter
<ali1234> hopefully you see why this works, if not i'll try to explain it
<ali1234> also you have to do this at line 1701 because those imageops above create a new image, and then delete the old one, and assign the new one to the old pointer
<ali1234> you'll need to switch between pixmap/solid background somehow too
<ochosi> yeah, the pixbuf loading and modifying is a little complicated at this point
<ali1234> nah, it's not that complicated :)
<ali1234> also i simplified it a bit
<ochosi> so i never unref p? or does it later get unrefd via the background_pixbuf
<ali1234> yes, it gets unref'd the next time you go through the loop
<ali1234> p is just a pointer to some arbitrary memory, the pointer itself is not ref counted
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> yay, works now
<ochosi> thanks :)
<ali1234> np :)
<ochosi> ali1234: rounded corners transparency without the xshape extension: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-01082014-123542pm.php
<ali1234> cool
<ali1234> looks good :)
<ochosi> thanks for helping me sort that out :)
<ali1234> found a bug: http://imagebin.org/285688
<ali1234> the menu opens in the wrong place
<brainwash> ali1234: the dream is over, after applying the latest trusty updates (incl. kernel 3.13) I now got the black screen flicker on login
<ali1234> that is your graphics driver
<brainwash> abiword completely refuses to start, apport points to some issue with the restricted AMD driver libraries
<brainwash> the driver did not change
<brainwash> Unit193: were you using kernel 3.13 since early RCs? you were the one noticing the black screen flicker, right?
<ali1234> what creates thumbnails in xfce? it's broken apparently on my machine
<ochosi> tumbler
<ochosi> and the menu-position bug is known to some extent with gtk3 indicators
<ochosi> at least i have heard of it before, but never saw it like this
<ali1234> i saw xfce have problems like this before a long time ago
<ali1234> right now though i really need to fix tumbler :/
<ali1234> all the services are running correctly
<ochosi> what's wrong with it?
<ali1234> i don't get thumbnails in thunar or xfdesktop background selector
<ochosi> i mean does it not do anything at all? or crash at startup?
<ochosi> hmm
<ali1234> i used to, but now i don't
<brainwash> did you check the folder permissions?
<brainwash> ~/.thumbnails
<ali1234> it looks ok
<ochosi> enough free space?
<ali1234> yes
<ochosi> (weird question, i know, but...)
<ochosi> oh noes, we've got a libreoffice thread again on x-d ML
<elfy> yep - but you can probably bet your last euro that those wanting it will want others to deal with it for them
<brainwash> still better than dealing with abiword :)
<elfy> not for me it isn't ;)
<ochosi> yeah, ppl usually want others doing the work for them
<ali1234> hmmmm i think i know why
<ali1234> could someone with working thumbnails run this for me: ldd `which thunar` | grep tumb
<ali1234> does it output libtumbler?
<knome> ochosi, didn't i tell them "no way" already? :P
<knome> and elfy ^
<ochosi> ali1234: i don't get any output there
<ochosi> and tumbler works here
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> are you sure?
<ochosi> knome: yeah, i received your mail a bit later than when we discussed
<ochosi> ali1234: yes, i just moved a pixmap over to a new dir to check, tumbler is still working
<ali1234> so what is happening is that the queue function works and it queues files to be thumbnailed, but then it never happens
<ali1234> so it doesn't use the built in fallback
<ali1234> hmm... i did rm -rf ~/.thumbnails ; killall tumblerd and now it works again
<ali1234> it definitely wasn't a permission issue though
<ali1234> but maybe a corrupted thumbnail in the cache or something
<ochosi> hmm, not nice though
<ochosi> i mean it's an easy-enough workaround for ppl, but it would be great if tumbler were more solid in that respect
<ali1234> yeah. unfortunately i can no longer reproduce the issue
<ochosi> :/
<ochosi> you should've just moved the thumbnail-folder to trash ;)
<ali1234> i'm pretty sure it broke while i was using xfdesktop and not thunar
<ali1234> i think it tried to display an icon for some huge file
<ali1234> maybe i can reproduce it that way
<brainwash> ochosi: does sound only stop playing after a vt switch if pulseaudio is being used?
<ochosi> brainwash: it doesn't stop for me here...
<brainwash> oh
<ochosi> i don't really have an explanation for that though
<brainwash> just switched to tty1 and sound stop playing after like 5sec
<ochosi> i guess some consolekit fun
<brainwash> strange delay
<brainwash> consolekit is gone
<ochosi> eh, policykit
<brainwash> right
<ochosi> i tend to mix the different *kits up
<brainwash> maybe polkit
<ochosi> that's what the guys in ubuntu-desktop suggested at least
<ochosi> (approximately)
<brainwash> but that is a general issue then, why does pulseaudio stop playing sound in this case? the X session is still running and not locked in any way
<brainwash> :(
<ochosi> well another seats becomes active and that gets the priority (for audio-playback, in this case)
<ochosi> it's really logical, if you ask me
<brainwash> another seat becomes active when switching to tty1?
<ali1234> yes
<brainwash> oh, you are not talking about logind seats
<ali1234> ochosi: so from what i gather from the chat the other day, the fact that audio stops is entirely cooperative and not enforced in any meaningful way
<ochosi> yeah, i think so
<ochosi> btw, we put two new items on our light-locker roadmap that'll help with that
<ochosi> i mean indirectly, by locking the session without vt-switch
<ali1234> yeah
<ochosi> actually it's a two-step plan
<ochosi> first, introduce an option to only switch the vt when the mouse moves
<ochosi> so as long as your screen is blank, i.e. you're not intentionally doing something, the music will keep on playing
<ochosi> then you move your mouse -> vt-switch -> music stops -> login -> music continues
<ochosi> not ideal, but a step ahead (and easier to do than loading the greeter) ^
<ali1234> yeah that would work
<slickymaster> ochosi: http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=xfdesktop-docs:usage is all set taking in consideration eric's opinions on http://dpaste.com/1534821/
<ochosi> eric_the_idiot: ^
<ochosi> thanks slickymaster 
<ochosi> currently in the middle of something, but i'll get to it later
<slickymaster> ochosi: I just haven't covered the spanning screen because it deals with a multidisplay setup which I'm not able to provide :( 
<slickymaster> np
<ochosi> no problem, we'll fix that later
<knome> bluesabre, pingading
<slickymaster> bbl
<elfy> lderan: can you get where we are with autopilot up together for tomorrow's meeting if possible?
<jamees> AlguÃ©m me ajuda?
<jamees> Help me please?
<elfy> jamees: #xubuntu is the support channel
<jamees> sorry i'm novice in xubuntu
<jamees> and speak a little english
<jamees> I can not estratir a file
<knome> jamees, this is not the support channel
<knome> !br | jamees 
<ubottu> jamees: Por favor, use #ubuntu-br para ajuda em portuguÃªs. Para entrar no canal por favor faÃ§a "/join #ubuntu-br" sem as aspas. Para a comunidade local portuguÃªsa, use #ubuntu-pt. Obrigada.
<jamees> Thanks! Sorry!
<sergio-br2> hey, there is no 'Ãª' in portuguesa.
<sergio-br2> and it is "Obrigado", not "Obrigada"
<knome> sergio-br2, say "!br is <reply> Correct text" without the quotes and it'll be fixed.
<knome> i guess that might be an alias for !pt, but that's easily fixed..
<knome> (it'll be fixed == somebody will look at it)
<elfy> :)
<brainwash> somebody: please fix it!
<sergio-br2> hum, let me try
<sergio-br2> !br is <reply> Por favor, use #ubuntu-br para ajuda em portuguÃªs. Para entrar no canal por favor faÃ§a "/join #ubuntu-br" sem as aspas. Para a comunidade local portuguÃªsa, use #ubuntu-pt. Obrigada.
<sergio-br2> !br is <reply> Por favor, use #ubuntu-br para ajuda em portuguÃªs. Para entrar no canal por favor faÃ§a "/join #ubuntu-br" sem as aspas. Para a comunidade local portuguesa, use #ubuntu-pt. Obrigado.
<sergio-br2> !br
<knome> sergio-br2, it's forwarded. cheers
<ubottu> Por favor, use #ubuntu-br para ajuda em portuguÃªs. Para entrar no canal por favor faÃ§a "/join #ubuntu-br" sem as aspas. Para a comunidade local portuguÃªsa, use #ubuntu-pt. Obrigada.
<knome> (it's not automatically changed)
<sergio-br2> hum, someone take a look and do the change?
<sergio-br2> i don't know irc things
<sergio-br2> knome, thanks
<elfy> sergio-br2: someone will - it's an irc op thing - they'll get around to it when they stop playing :)
<sergio-br2> haha, ok
<brainwash> looks like there are some issues with the new trusty kernel (3.13) and the restricted AMD driver
<elfy> that sucks 
<elfy> for you :)
<brainwash> they should use the proposed repo
<sergio-br2> only amd driver? i had trouble with nvidia 331 in trusty today
<brainwash> maybe nvidia too
<brainwash> the AMD one does not build properly against kernel 3.13
<brainwash> so you are not able to start the Unity session at all :D
<brainwash> in Xubuntu some apps refuse to start and act slow/weird
<brainwash> or
<elfy> running the new kernel on nvidia here
<brainwash> open source or restricted driver?
<elfy> sergio-br2: I had trouble with -331 yesterday and about 2 weeks ago - same issue
<elfy> brainwash: nouveau here atm
<elfy> NOT trying nvidia again - though I might see if -331-updates fares better
<sergio-br2> nouveau works well, proprietary don't
<elfy> some issue with nvidia-prime failing - and it appears to do something with the lightdm.conf too
<elfy> not had time to dig a bit more tbh
<elfy> sergio-br2: I get this with nouveau http://i.imgur.com/VPyW1RS.jpg and http://i.imgur.com/mIU9sQZ.jpg
<sergio-br2> hey, same problem here
<sergio-br2> elfy, the 2Âº image, if i boot in windows first and then boot to xubuntu, then i have this strange behavior, with peaces of windows...
<elfy> good - at some point I'll do a bug report 
<sergio-br2> the 1Âº is if i turn on computer, and choose xubuntu
<elfy> sergio-br2: is that a cold start or restart - I get the artifacts from another session on reboot/restart
<elfy> the first from a cold boot
<sergio-br2> yeah, same here
<elfy> good 
<elfy> bbl
<elfy> Noskcaj: just quickly - I'm not here - libxfce4ui came though in updates here - nothing has blown up :)
<elfy> thanks :)
<Noskcaj> elfy, no problems? Yay
<lderan> elfy, sure thing with the autopilot :)
<Noskcaj> Unit193, I assume you mean d/copyright? d/changelog seems fine. Also, why is it cdbs?
<lderan> elfy, i might have to leave my autopilot findings in an email, i can't gurantee i will be there for the meeting tomorrow
<Noskcaj> lderan, What autopilot findings?
<lderan> the current state of the progress
 * jarnos pushed development of xdg-screensaver (package xdg-utils) https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=42776 I hope we get an updated package for the next Xubuntu.
<ubottu> Freedesktop bug 42776 in xdg-utils "xdg-screensaver could be simplified" [Enhancement,New]
<lderan> have you had any fuirther luck with the introsepction bits Noskcaj?
<Noskcaj> lderan, gthumb introspects fine, as does simple-scan and all of blusabre's programs, i'm just really bad with python so nothing has happened
<elfy> lderan: yea - that's fine :)
<lderan> Noskcaj, woo sounds good to me :)
<brainwash> ochosi: do you plan to add a light border to more things? first the new terminal icon, now the greeter panel, what's next? :P
<ochosi> yeah, more light to the world!
<brainwash> I like it
<brainwash> hopefully we get even more visual improvements for trusty 
<ochosi> phew, finally i've done something you like!
<brainwash> can the height of the active tab be changed via the theme files?
<ochosi> in gtk3 you have fine-grain control ove that
<ochosi> in gtk2 i think there might be a setting too
<brainwash> just wondering, pcmanfm does it already although I'm using greybird
<ochosi> does what?
<ochosi> and how
<ochosi> screenshot plz
<brainwash> the active tab is 2 pixels bigger
<ochosi> the same is true in greybird everywhere
<ochosi> if standard tabs are used
<ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-01082014-091606pm.php
<brainwash> so thunar behaves differently?
<ochosi> i have no idea how pcmanfm works, so...
<brainwash> you mean thunar?
<ochosi> no, i don't know how tabs look in pcmanfm or how they're packed
<ochosi> so how would i know the diff?
<ochosi> and true, i've never used tabs in thunar
<brainwash> pcmanfm tabs looks like those in the screenshot
<brainwash> so it's the normal behavior
<ochosi> depends on how you look at it
<ochosi> terminal also has tabs like thunar
<brainwash> right, thunar's tabs are different
<ochosi> (and anyway, i can't see how those 2px really matter)
<brainwash> yes, these tabs expand and fill the whole bar
<brainwash> 2 px :(
<brainwash> consistent look
<Unit193> brainwash: Nope.
<Unit193> Noskcaj: Right, was really late, thought I typed that one.  No idea, but changed that locally.
<Noskcaj> knome, Mind if i change xubuntu-docs from cdbs to dh?
<knome> no, if it works (tm)
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/AolMw4gUSgz3Sb14wE7G what I had for that.
<Noskcaj> Yeah, looks like that's all that's needed. I'll just debdiff to check i didn't break anything
<Unit193> I didn't change the copyright though.
<Unit193> knome: It'd be pretty easy to package in the other translations, but when you click help from the menu it'd still go to the English one.  Not looked extensivly into how to do that.
<knome> Unit193, one of the options, probably easy one, is to create a simple link to the startpage (not the desktop-guide start) saying "see here for the translated docs"
<knome> and another page that listed them all
<slickymaster> good night all
<ochosi> evening
<ochosi> slickymaster: it's looking more realistic now that we'll get versioned docs
<ochosi> talked to NSchermer and he approved the idea
<slickymaster> that's terrific
<slickymaster> really good bewa
<slickymaster> news ^^
<slickymaster> let's hope eric_the_idiot agrees and likes the alterations made to the Usage section
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> any trusty testers here?
<slickymaster> o/
<ochosi> quick question, are you using the shimmer daily PPA?
<brainwash> I do use git
<slickymaster> nopes, just testing it out of the box
<ochosi> there is one thing i'd like ppl to test
<ochosi> i recently removed gnome from the inherits-line in elementary-xfce
<brainwash> hopefully a new border :)
<ochosi> a new border?
<slickymaster> shoot ochosi, I'll set up a new vbox tomorrow
<brainwash> so it's icon theme related?
<ochosi> so you need to use elementary-xfce from the shimmer daily PPA for the test to make sense
<ochosi> brainwash: indeed
<ochosi> you're a keen observer ;)
<brainwash> and you want us to look for missing icons now?
<ochosi> i want to know whether we suffer (many) regressions from dropping the gnome-icon-theme
<brainwash> :D
<ochosi> this can most easily done in a system that you *use*
<ochosi> so in case any of you do, this is very harmless
<ochosi> to the worst, you'll see a broken icon
<knome> though you need to be running trusty, you say ;P
<ochosi> yeah, i'd rather
<knome> yeah
<ochosi> i mean if you notice stuff in saucy, then yeah, i wanna fix that too
<ochosi> cause it'll most likely affect trusty
<knome> i'd imagine running trusty gives you more headache than missing icons...
<slickymaster> I can do it tomorrow in my trusty box, at work, ochosi 
<ochosi> but i'm testing saucy all the time anyway
<ochosi> thanks slickymaster 
#xubuntu-devel 2014-01-09
<bluesabre> knome: pongalong?
<Unit193> ##
<Unit193> ## Xubuntu Team Meeting - Today, 9th @ 19:00 UTC - #xubuntu-devel
<Unit193> ##
<Noskcaj> Unit193, I will wake up to that
<elfy> morning Unit193 Noskcaj 
<Noskcaj> hey elfy 
<Unit193> elfy: Howdy.
<lderan> elfy: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6719815/ reporting in
<slickymaster> morning all
<lderan> morning slickymaster 
<slickymaster> hi lderan 
<knome> morning lderan, slickymaster 
<lderan> morning knome :)
<knome> 97% translated
<slickymaster> knome: he he you're already seeing the light :)
<knome> yeah, i only have some of the apt-offline stuff to translate
<slickymaster> but those are the bigger and complicated strings to translate knome 
<knome> sure... but otoh, they don't have too many gui strings to translate, so easier
<slickymaster> yeah, you're right
<knome> i think i even got my wife semi-interested in proofreading the translation
<knome> ...so expect a big commit with fixes :P
<slickymaster> LOL
<ochosi> ali1234: may i bother you with a quick gtk question?
<ali1234> okay :)
<ochosi> thanks :)
<ochosi> so, my question is, is there a standard call/function for redrawing a window plus all its content?
<ochosi> so far i've only found gtk_widget_queue_draw
<ochosi> but that only has effect on single widgets
<ali1234> no idea
<ochosi> and i need everything in that window to be redrawn
<ali1234> call it on the window?
<ali1234> a window is a widget
<ochosi> tried, doesn't work
<ochosi> at least the draw-callback doesn't seem to be triggered, which is what i need
<ochosi> i considered calling the draw-callback manually, but that seems a bit hackish
<ochosi> (also i'm not sure it'd really work)
<knome> hmm, i thought launchpad would have handled fuzzy translations better
<knome> looks like it just dismisses them
<knome> well done...
<ochosi> ali1234: figured it out, gtk_widget_queue_draw does what i want (if you call it from the right place ;))
<lderan> ochosi: woo \o/
<ochosi> lderan: woo? :)
<ochosi> what part of me are you woo-ing exactly?
<lderan> for figuring it out
<ochosi> ah, thanks :)
<ochosi> well, fake transparency is ready now i think
<ochosi> knome: major drawback of not having gnome-icon-theme around: no highcontrast icon theme... :/
<ochosi> so i think we need to keep it for accessibility reasons
<slickymaster> knome: what do you mean by fuzzy translations?
<knome> ochosi, can't we just add the hicolor theme?
<ochosi> it's part of the gnome-icon-theme package afaik
<knome> slickymaster, in poedit (and pretty much any editor), you can mark translations as "fuzzy"
<knome> slickymaster, this can also happen automatically when strings change just slightly; the .po-file-updater marks the translation "fuzzy" because it's not sure if it's accurate any more
<knome> ochosi, bah, well that should definitely be split
<ochosi> knome: to be frank, the only benefit i see now of getting rid of gnome-icon-theme is a cleaner emblems list in thunar...
<ochosi> (the few MB it adds don't really count)
<knome> well that's a good benefit :P
<slickymaster> knome: got it, thanks
<ochosi> and having working icons for all gnome3 apps without having to wonder is also kidan nice-ish
<ochosi> s/kidan/kinda/
<knome> ochosi, bolloks :)
<knome> +c
<knome> my C-key isn't working
<ochosi> anyway, i just think we have bigger fish to fry in 14.04 and i'd prefer to focus on those
<knome> agreed, but only barely :P
<ochosi> so i'm re-prioritizing this issue, is all i'm saying
<ochosi> (to the bottom of my list)
<knome> y
<elfy> lderan: thanks :)
<knome> slickymaster, 100%
<slickymaster> \o/ congrats
<knome> ta ta
<slickymaster> now there's no singular in docs translations
<knome> hm?
<knome> now that i've finished the translation...
<knome> i probably should proofread the original text
<elfy> :)
<knome> to prepare more work to be done for me and slickymaster 
<lderan> :P
<slickymaster> :) we have to convince GridCube to translate it into Spanish
<slickymaster> now that he is on holidays
<knome> heh
<elfy> goddamn launchpad - fill a bug report in - it timesout - must be the new plan to not have to bother with bugs :|
<knome> lol
<elfy> marking it a security vulnerability so someone looks at it ... 
<knome> :P
<knome> don't, if it isn't
<elfy> I'm joking :)
<knome> just tell me what the bug is and i'll rather poke people with it
<knome> ;P
<elfy> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers-331/+bug/1267442
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1267442 in nvidia-graphics-drivers-331 (Ubuntu) "Install nvidia-331 on Xubuntu results in unbootable machine" [Undecided,New]
<knome> heh
<slickymaster> ochosi: ping
<ochosi> slickymaster: pong
<slickymaster> ochosi: the test you spoke about yesterday, you wanted to be made
<ochosi> slickymaster: yeah, you can skip that one for now...
<ochosi> i had to realize earlier that we lose the hicontrast icon-theme when dropping gnome-icon-theme
<ochosi> so things are getting more complicated
<ochosi> and i don't have time to spend on an issue like that
<slickymaster> okie dokie, but if you'll need them later, just ping me
<ochosi> sorry if you already started testing :/
<slickymaster> i was going to do it anyhow, np
<ochosi> testing the icons from PPA is useful anyway though
<ochosi> if you notice missing icons or ones that look off, let me know
<slickymaster> with elementary-xfce, right?
<ochosi> yup, elementary-xfce-darker to be exact
<slickymaster> will do
<knome> Unit193, humpf, we should look at using the translator-credits string in the docs
<knome> Unit193, or alternatively, some other method to credit translators
<knome> heh, it looks like the karma system is definitely borked
<knome> Top contributors
<knome> David Pires 840 points / Pasi Lallinaho 275 points 
<knome> you're not getting karma if you translate .po's with external editors :)
<ochosi> that karma stat seems about right to me :D
<slickymaster> LOL
<knome> in what sense?
<knome> we've both translated 100% of a language, and i've handled the branch in addition
<knome> i'm not saying i need more karma, or that it matters
<knome> i'm just saying the system is borked
<slickymaster> did you download the pot file, translate it and then uploaded it knome?
<knome> slickymaster, pretty much yeah.
<knome> i have 41 karma in rosetta translations, you have 805
<slickymaster> that's why
<knome> so i'm lacking like 750, so my karma should be >1000 for the project
<knome> yes, i know it's because of that
<knome> but the system is borked
<knome> if you get 1 karma for translating 1 string in rosetta, uploading .po file with 100 translated stings should give you 100 karma
<knome> "should"
<knome> i mean, yeah, that's overkill
<knome> and would be stupid because one can't track if it was really you who translated the strings
<slickymaster> yeah, I do agree with you, it's not fair
<knome> but... the karma system is broken :)
<elfy> never mind - those with false karma will return as ants :p
<knome> :P
<knome> bah, i should go hunt for food
<knome> in the supermarket
<elfy> good luck - others will be hunting also
<slickymaster> others recollecting
<knome> not yet, so i should be fast
<elfy> :)
<knome> but i think i'm too lazy to be fast :P
<slickymaster> :)
<knome> bbl ->
<zequence_> Hi. About the live session. Is yours working fine now?
<elfy> zequence: nope - still waiting 
<zequence> elfy: Ok, but you're only waiting for the changes by Unit193 to be uploaded?
<zequence> I'm assuming those will fix it
<zequence> I'm just about to make changes in ubuntustudio-default-settings to overcome the same problem
<elfy> yea - that's the case for us 
<zequence> Ok. Good. I'll go ahead and implement the fix for us as well
<slickymaster> \away
<knome> hey zequence, nice to see you around and active :)
<ochosi> xnox: hey!
<zequence> knome: Hi. Yeah, I've been sleeping for a while, maintaining linux-lowlatency mostly. Busy, busy. I'll be quite active for a while now.
<zequence> Going to apply for upload rights now :)
<knome> :)
<sergio-br2> hello someone
<elfy> hi
<sergio-br2> i installed xubuntu trusty 2 times in a HP desktop, and it seems that it does not record well grub in HDD... 
<sergio-br2> in the first time, i installed and after reboot, it goes direct to windows. No UEFI hardware, it is from 2011 i think.
<sergio-br2> do you know what package i have to report bug?
<elfy> grub2 perhaps
<sergio-br2> if i use boot repair, grub is installed in machine. (i'm using the "Advanced instalation", or "Other", don't remember...)
<slickymaster> elfy: are you near any Trusty box?
<elfy> in front of one :p
<slickymaster> can you please confirm, in Thunar, something?
<elfy> yep
<slickymaster> no need, silly me
<elfy> ok :)
 * slickymaster is getting dumb :P
<elfy> lol
<brainwash_> so the Mir guys are shifting their work towards unity8-mir and possible rootless x support for it
<brainwash_> XMir seems to lose some ground
<brainwash_> mainly because it's not used as default solution in 13.10/14.04
<elfy> hi brainwash_ 
<brainwash_> hey elfy 
<brainwash_> elfy: the restricted AMD driver is now kernel 3.13 compatible
<elfy> yay :)
<slickymaster> brb for the meeting
<sergio-br2> elfy, did you try nvidia-331-updates with this new kernel?
<knome> anybody else able to chair today?
<knome> i might need to leave quickly and thus i'd like somebody else to lead the meeting
<knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jan  9 18:57:46 2014 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<knome> i'm starting the meeting now because i might need to run at some point
<ali1234> o/
<ochosi> crap, i'll only be halfway here...
<knome> say hi if you are around, and team leaders, stop lurking so i can make you chair the meeting
<elfy> just finishing up 
<slickymaster> o/
<knome> elfy, like to chair?
<jjfrv8> hi
<knome> hey jjfrv8, or you ^
<elfy> ~I hate to chair 
<jjfrv8> no idea how
<sergio-br2> hi
<elfy> will if no-one else is about 
<knome> jjfrv8, i can give you a quick tutorial
<jjfrv8> maybe some other time?
<knome> sure
<knome> #chair elfy 
<meetingology> Current chairs: elfy knome
<knome> elfy, you can now #chair other people if they appear and i'm not here to do that.
<elfy> k
<knome> i guess i can start with the bureaucracy
<knome> #topic Items carried on
<knome> #subtopic Open action items from previous meeting
<knome> #action     ali1234 to keep an eye on SRU progress for indicator-sound-GTK2 
<meetingology> ACTION: ali1234 to keep an eye on SRU progress for indicator-sound-GTK2
<knome> ali1234, ?
<knome> ah poop
<knome> brb
<ali1234> it's in saucy-updates now, landed a couple of days ago
<ochosi> congrats
<elfy> here now - sergio-br2 I'll talk to you about nvidia after the meeting 
<sergio-br2> ok
<knome> ali1234, do you want to carry on that item?
<ali1234> carry it on?
<ali1234> it's fixed now afaik
<knome> make it pop up in the next meeting
<knome> okay, 
<knome> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x16231d0>
<ali1234> i guess not
<knome> #action     elfy to set up a new vm and get everyone's new bits in so I've got something to look at 
<meetingology> ACTION: elfy to set up a new vm and get everyone's new bits in so I've got something to look at
<knome> elfy, want to carry on or was that mostly a remark?
<knome> have you got more things to test already?
<elfy> was mostly a remark - I've been running with the ppas we have constantly now 
<knome> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x174a2d0>
<knome> okay
<knome> #action ochosi and knome to come up with more testing stuff late
<meetingology> ACTION: ochosi and knome to come up with more testing stuff late
<knome> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x1617850>
<knome> #action ochosi and knome to come up with more testing stuff later (within a week)
<meetingology> ACTION: ochosi and knome to come up with more testing stuff later (within a week)
<knome> #action     knome to be in touch with people re Tech Lead position 
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to be in touch with people re Tech Lead position
<knome> TBD, carrying on
<elfy> what testing stuff is that? ^^
<knome> the things we are supposed to have
<knome> we went through the -features BP, and i'm much better on top of that now
<elfy> right - well if we can get that conversation in during the next week - then I'm currently on the week off cycle
<knome> so basically the same, but i hope we'll have new versions and that kind of stuff soon
<elfy> and can be about
<knome> sure, will try to push towards that
<knome> #action ochosi to follow up on xfce 4.12 release with nick and report back 
<meetingology> ACTION: ochosi to follow up on xfce 4.12 release with nick and report back
<knome> ochosi, ?
<elfy> come back to him :)
 * knome slaps ochosi 
<knome> #info Team members wanting things tested need to ensure a mail get's sent to the -dev list 
<ochosi> mm, well, there have been a few releases
<ochosi> but we're still waiting for the panel
<knome> ochosi, no news about the final 4.12 release?
<ochosi> not really
<knome> oki
<knome> #topic Team updates
<knome> please use #info and #action as necessary
<ochosi> (as there are still dev-releases missing and nick seems busy...)
<knome> #info knome and ochosi went through https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-t-features, which now has updated whiteboard and work items statuses
<knome> #info knome finished the finnish tranlsation for xubuntu docs
<knome> #info knome worked on the website, new release planned soon
<knome> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x16f2890>
<knome> #info knome worked on the website, refreshing release planned soon
<ali1234> oh, the terminal crash fix also just went into saucy-updates :)
<knome> ali1234, with #info please
<knome> (and would be helpful if you can point to a bug number)
<slickymaster> #info slickymaster finished the portuguese translation for xubuntu docs
<slickymaster> bug 1206739
<ubottu> bug 1206739 in xfce4-terminal (Ubuntu) "xfce4-terminal crashed with SIGSEGV in magazine_chain_pop_head()" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1206739
<knome> #info ochosi and bluesabre worked on light-locker theming
<knome> #info bugfix for 1206739 got into saucy-updates
<ochosi> s/light-locker/lightdm-gtk-greeter/
<knome> whatever! :P
<ochosi> sry, something came up, gotta run...
<ochosi> :/
<knome> np
<knome> will assign loads of tasks to you for that
<knome> is there anything else?
<ali1234> #info bugfix for 1208204 (indicator-sound-gtk2) also got into saucy-updates
<elfy> #info work towards use of autopilot is still ongoing - but it's unlikely to get there this cycle
<elfy> #info package testing moving on - calling for seperate sections every couple of weeks
<elfy> #info checking of required testcases for each call being lined up by -qa
<elfy> #info iso testing - moves forward as always
<elfy> #info calls have been going out to -testers
<elfy> #info calls having little effect on reported numbers
<elfy> #action elfy and knome/ochosi to discuss lightlocker testing - perhaps include old post install testing in that
<meetingology> ACTION: elfy and knome/ochosi to discuss lightlocker testing - perhaps include old post install testing in that
<elfy> #info we need to be moving towards getting testcase for the other new stuff in the next week or so
<knome> elfy, let's also discuss the future of -testers
<elfy> #action elfy to discuss future of -testers with knome
<meetingology> ACTION: elfy to discuss future of -testers with knome
<knome> #info alpha 2 is in 2 weeks
<elfy> if we still don't have a properly booting image then I see no point in doing it
<knome> #info feature freeze is in 6 weeks
<knome> elfy, what was holding it again? the session bug?
<elfy> yep
<knome> will get that updated
<knome> /uploaded
<elfy> ok
 * knome promises, so it'll happen
<knome> i will try to get the fix soon ASAP
<knome> xnox, ^
<elfy> #action knome will get session bug fix uploaded
<meetingology> ACTION: knome will get session bug fix uploaded
<elfy> :p
<knome> anything else for the updates?
<knome> elfy, works for me :P
<knome> welcome Noskcaj 
<knome> #topic Announcements
<elfy> no more updates here
<Noskcaj> hey knome 
<Noskcaj> one sec
<knome> #info slickymaster is applying for ubuntu membership, go give him testimonials at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/slickymaster if you are familiar with his work
<Noskcaj> #info Noskcaj needs more testimonials for xubuntu packageset, add them at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Noskcaj#Xubuntu_PackageSet
<Noskcaj> #info Noskcaj is part-way through applyignfor motu and xubuntu packageset via email
<Noskcaj> #info libxfce4ui is waiting for a sponsor to upload it to trusty
<Noskcaj> #info debian will upload more 4.11 components this month
<Noskcaj> #info debian have fixed the power manager systemd issue in svn, it should be uploaded soon
<Noskcaj> #info gthumb 3.2.6 is now uploaded and web-plugins are re-enabled
<Noskcaj> #info prpltwtr will release sometime this month
<Noskcaj> #info Noskcaj is now on the bug control team
<knome> Noskcaj, thanks
<knome> other announcements from leaders?
<elfy> no
<knome> #topic New and emerging items
<knome> #subtopic Which GTK3 indicators are we going to ship?
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Trusty/Gtk3Indicators
<knome> ochosi wanted -power and -messages in
<ali1234> ship ALL the indicators!
<knome> yeah, i was wondering if there is any reason *not* to *ship* them all?
<ali1234> actally yes there is
<knome> well go ahead and tell us :)
<ali1234> -datetime is probably not a good idea because of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-datetime/+bug/1074314
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1074314 in indicator-datetime (Ubuntu) "indicator-datetime configuration panel only works in Unity session" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ali1234> -session doesn't really work properly with light-locker and xfce-session stuff
<ali1234> all the others seem okay though
<knome> okay
<brainwash_> -power needs to be patched to launch xfce4-power-manager, or?
<elfy> only got 3 working here - messages/sound and the clock one 
<ali1234> oh and shipping them == having them running in the default setup, unless you blacklist them
<ali1234> i don't use power (not a laptop)
<knome> brainwash_, i guess that's the case but afaik there's a fix incoming
<knome> ali1234, yep, i acknowledge shipping is using :)
<brainwash_> but aren't the current panel plugins more lightweight and stable?
<ali1234> not really
<ali1234> the sound plugin doesn't really work at all with PA, and there is no plugin for indicator-messages or -sync
<knome> do we want to discuss this further or are we ok?
<ali1234> bluman is kind of unmaintained now also
<brainwash_> not talking about the ones which don't have a panel plugin equivalent
<knome> we're going to need to switch to gtk3 indicators at some point anyway
<knome> if not for other reasons, to avoid maintaining the whole gtk2 indicator stack
<ali1234> well ignoring datetime, session, bluetooth, sound, messages... there is not much left really
<knome> brainwash_, do you know for sure there is some problems with them, or are you just concerned about lightness?
<ali1234> oh and -application is miles better than the notification plugin which doesn't work properly on dual monitor and never will
<elfy> doesn't work here ali1234 
<brainwash_> I don't have any numbers
<knome> elfy, do you have a bug filed?
<ali1234> elfy: because of that stupid upstart bug. it's being fixed
<Noskcaj> ali1234, Blueman is semi-active again. https://github.com/cschramm/blueman
<elfy> ali1234: right ok 
<knome> ali1234, good to know
<knome> anything else on the subject?
<ali1234> i talked to tedg about it couple of days ago. apparently he has a plan
<ali1234> i'll continue to follow up on that
<knome> ali1234, thanks
<knome> #action ali1234 follows up on gtk3 indicator status
<meetingology> ACTION: ali1234 follows up on gtk3 indicator status
<knome> #subtopic Enabling more people to push to Xubuntu branches
<sergio-br2> blueman is much better than the bluetooth thing of gnome... will it be change?
<knome> so, we discussed this briefly with ochosi...
<sergio-br2> ops, sorry
<knome> sergio-br2, that's not the question:)
<knome> currently, only people in -dev can push to xubuntu branches
<knome> we were wondering if it was possible to allow more people to push into the branches
<knome> either via creating a new team, like -branches, or assigning them to -team
<knome> micahg, do you have any insight on this?
<knome> (are you even around?)
<elfy> so - -dev is effectively just micahg atm ?
<knome> elfy, yes
<Noskcaj> elfy, Yup
<Noskcaj> And all of core-dev
<elfy> thought that was the case
<knome> we're looking to get more people in -dev though, but even then...
<elfy> yep - it's an issue for sure
<knome> i mean -team is already moderated, and we have some amount of trust for the members already
<knome> so we don't expect them to do foolish things with the branches
 * Noskcaj needs a testimonial from knome 
<elfy> knome: I can agree with that 
<slickymaster> +1
<knome> if -dev members or DMB thinks we can't allow -team to push to branches, we should look at creating a new team which would have push rights, but a bit looser membership requirements than -dev
<knome> but i guess we need to postpone this, because neither ochosi or micahg are around
<knome> Noskcaj, i can only give a non-technical one, but i will do that once i have time
<knome> Noskcaj, (and can clear my thoughts for it)
<knome> #subtopic Schedule next meeting 
<Noskcaj> knome, ty
<elfy> knome: maybe set up a specific meeting for you ochosi and micahg - not really something we should leave hanging
<knome> #info Next meeting Jan 16, 19UTC
<elfy> and those interested of course
<knome> elfy, will be in touch with them, but want to get it through the community meeting :)
<elfy> :)
<knome> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jan  9 19:34:00 2014 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-01-09-18.57.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-01-09-18.57.html
<knome> ta
<elfy> ty knome 
<slickymaster> thanks knome 
<Noskcaj> What did i miss at the start of the meeting?
<Unit193> libxfce4ui is already in Trusty proper.
<elfy> slickymaster: when we're doing qa updates and you see I've missed something - #info it please
<elfy> Unit193: I got that yesterday I think
<slickymaster> sure elfy 
<slickymaster> Noskcaj, I'm applying for Ubuntu Membership on the meeting that will be held on February 6th, 2014 at 22:00:00 UTC, so if  you feel I'm worthy please drop a line or two, as a testimonial, in my wiki page -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/slickymaster
<Noskcaj> slickymaster, Already did
<slickymaster> Noskcaj, thanks a lot
<Noskcaj> no problem, you should probably apply for bug control too
<knome> Noskcaj, updated the minutes at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<Noskcaj> ok
<knome> and should now be up
<knome> pastefail
<slickymaster> Noskcaj, yeah, I think you're right. I'll discuss it with you later on
<elfy> knome: I wondered :p
<Unit193> Next meeting: http://goo.gl/gBilVw
<slickymaster> hey Unit193 
<Unit193> Howdy.
<knome> pleia2, went an updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/TeamReports/14/January
<knome> pleia2, and pointed /Current there
<knome> jjfrv8, while we are working on the "what's new" doc, we should look at updating http://xubuntu.org/tour/
<GridCube> D: that was a quick meeting
<knome> jjfrv8, and possible take a stab at http://xubuntu.org/about/
<knome> jjfrv8, i'm drafting a new theme for the website at http://xstaging.lallinaho.fi/, and we can easily give other links the same bold style as the "download now" -link has
<knome> jjfrv8, (tbe, we can make that even more bold, and i should look into that)
<slickymaster> afk
<elfy> sergio-br2: you still about?
<elfy> sergio-br2: the nvidia I installed yesterday on the other partition was NOT the updates one - but it was the new kernel
<elfy> other than the issue I did the bug for it worked ok - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers-331/+bug/1267442
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1267442 in nvidia-graphics-drivers-331 (Ubuntu) "Install nvidia-331 on Xubuntu results in unbootable machine" [Undecided,New]
<ochosi> ok, i'm back
<ochosi> too late i guess :/
<elfy> wb ochosi :)
<Unit193> knome: fi/media-apps.xml:332: element menuchoice: validity error : Element menuchoice content does not follow the DTD, expecting (shortcut? , (guibutton | guiicon | guilabel | guimenu | guimenuitem | guisubmenu | interface)+), got (CDATA guimenuitem)  You have a <guimenuitem/> and it doesn't seem to like that.
<Noskcaj> wb ochosi 
<ochosi> ok, i gotta read the backlog now...
<ochosi> if there's important stuff, feel free to ping me directly
<elfy> ochosi: the logs are up already if you want to see the thousands of things we actioned you with :p
<knome> Unit193, egh, i thought i had those in order
<ochosi> knome: good time to read #xfce-dev
<Unit193> fi.po:1584
<ochosi> brainwash_: i've filed a merge-request for indicator-power today about xfce4-powerman integration
<ochosi> there's really not much we need, it's a few lines, that tiny patch...
<knome> ochosi, lurking
<ochosi> actually the important stuff was nick asking about our plans
<ochosi> and that's over :)
<elfy> night
<Unit193> knome: Thanks for that though, showed me a 'bug'
<Noskcaj> New taskmanager is now uploaded
<knome> Unit193, :)
<knome> Unit193, what about the translator credits?
<Unit193> Pasi, FI; and David, PT. :P
<knome> the string launchpad creates is stupid, because it'll output the strings after each other, not in a <li>
<knome> oh bah, i need to poke at a wordpress plugin >__<
<Unit193> I have no idea, I didn't do any translation things.
<knome> if you type "translator-credits" as is in a <para>, the translations will have a list of people who contributed via launchpad
<knome> but as i said, that's not formatted nicely
<knome> do you think it's too hackish to create a string that says "Contributors to this translation are:", then another that lists people?
<knome> and translate that to null in en
<knome> and then just tell translators to translate the first message to their language and update the second one when new contributors pop up
<knome> brb, will boot the desktop machine to be able to *work*
<Unit193> Eh, I should be doing other stuff.
<sergio-br2> elfy, sorry, i'm here now
<sergio-br2> but nvidia-331 and nvidia-331-updates is the same, now, don't?
<sergio-br2> elfy, and the other bug, with nouveau? I tested today, same behavior
<sergio-br2> with the new kernel
#xubuntu-devel 2014-01-10
<ochosi> hey Noskcaj 
<Noskcaj> hey ochosi 
<ochosi> just went through the notes and saw that powerman fixes are now in debian
<ochosi> (meeting-notes i meant)
<ochosi> does that mean all three fixes from suse?
<Unit193> http://anonscm.debian.org/viewvc/pkg-xfce/desktop/branches/experimental/xfce4-power-manager/debian/changelog?view=markup nothing actually in Debian yet.
<ochosi> :/
<ochosi> well i'm optimistic that we'll get those fixes upstream
<ochosi> but i'm not sure whether upstream will get a powerman-release in time for 14.04
<bluesabre> ochosi, slickymaster, jjfrv8: (assuming I got your name pings right)... I'll be migrating my server to a new host this weekend, so there will probably be some downtime for my dokuwiki
<ochosi> bluesabre: as long as you back everything up nicely, that's fine i guess ;)
<bluesabre> that's the plan anyway :)
<ochosi> good plan
<ochosi> don't forget to back up the screenshots as well
<slickymaster> let us know the new host afterwards
<ochosi> slickymaster: i presume the domain will remain the same
<bluesabre> I'm keeping my domain, so when it comes back up everything should be the same
<ochosi> or do you wanna know the IP of the site?
<slickymaster> no, I assume that the domain would change, also
<Noskcaj> ochosi, You might want to check what fixes are there, you should probably talk to corsac about it. http://anonscm.debian.org/viewvc/pkg-xfce/desktop/branches/experimental/xfce4-power-manager/
<bluesabre> ali1234: thanks for the memory leak fix
<slickymaster> morning all
<elfy> o/
<slickymaster> hi elfy. Good morning
<elfy> good morning to you too :)
<lderan> good morning :)
<elfy> hi lderan 
<lderan> oh elfy, i will be able to do a fair bit more work for you over the coming weeks \o/
<elfy> well - it's not actually for me :p
<elfy> but that's good :)
<elfy> unless you've not got a job atm ...
<lderan> well for the cause :P
<elfy> :)
<lderan> being turned into part time
<elfy> getting somewhere with autopilot will be awesome 
<elfy> oh that's rubbish :(
<elfy> lderan: if you see something on the blueprint that has the wrong staus - change it :)
<lderan> elfy: will do
<elfy> that's all that task is :)
<lderan> okay :)
<elfy> lderan: also of course - if you want to do any of the tasks - just make sure to assign yourself so everyone knows 
<elfy> even if I've got them assigned to me :)
<lderan> :) will do
<pmjdebruijn> oh btw
<pmjdebruijn> I asked about gnome-keyring a while back, as I wanted to disable the gpg part of gnome-keyring
<pmjdebruijn> with a digging I see gnome-keyring is started by xfce4-session, which is disablable via preferences
<pmjdebruijn> after which I enabled gnome's own gnome-keyring-secrets.desktop file
<pmjdebruijn> now my gpg smartcard works nicely again :)
<ochosi> pmjdebruijn: cool, good to hear :)
<ochosi> does that mean you can spend the free time you gained from that just now to write that simplistic screen-gamma tool? ;)
<pmjdebruijn> haha unlikely
<pmjdebruijn> sorry
<pmjdebruijn> I will do a writeup about that though
<pmjdebruijn> for other users to reference @gnome-keyring
<ochosi> pmjdebruijn: sounds good, was mostly kidding ;)
<pmjdebruijn> ochosi: guessed as much, thus the "haha" :)
<ochosi> well for the unlikely case that you would have had time for that, it'd have been a nice suprise
<ochosi> if you know someone else who'd be interested to write that, lemme know
<ochosi> btw, the official submission period for xubuntu wallpapers ends on the 13th
<ochosi> xnox: can
<ochosi> xnox: can't remember for sure whether i asked you about this already, but this merge/upload would be really important for xubuntu (currently trusty live-sessions don't work because of this): https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/xubuntu-default-settings/session-fix/+merge/198177
<jjfrv8> knome, I added your "what's new" recommendations to the whiteboard
 * slickymaster damns is internet connection
<eric_the_idiot> slickymaster, the xfdesktop usage docs look good! Thanks for working on it
<slickymaster> no problem eric_the_idiot. I've enjoyed working on it
<slickymaster> is there anything else you'd like to be addressed?
<eric_the_idiot> it looks like you covered it all
<slickymaster> great, glad to ear it, eric_the_idiot 
<slickymaster> ochosi: ^^^ looks like it's done, besides the multi monitor part that you said you'd do it
<slickymaster> elfy or knome, any of you around
<elfy> kinda
<slickymaster> apparently something went wrong with bug 1262583 
<ubottu> bug 1262583 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "1599_Orage test has to be reviewed and corrected" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1262583
<slickymaster> the tracker is still showing "Display setting" instead of "Calendar window"
<slickymaster> and I think it was some mixed up thing I've made with my MP, so I'll reopen the bug to correct it and later propose a new MP
<slickymaster> what do you think?
<elfy> the branch is all correct is it?
<elfy> the main branch that is
<slickymaster> no, the test in the branch is oddly wrong
<slickymaster> I think, let me check
<elfy> ok
<elfy> I'm in and out of the room at the moment
<slickymaster> elfy: the main branch is correct
<slickymaster> did you update the branch when you merge my MP?
<slickymaster> update the tracker^^
<elfy> done
<elfy> thought I did - perhaps I didn't
<slickymaster> elfy: yeah, the tracker is updated and showing the correct test
<slickymaster> thanks
<elfy> I'll be looking over the xubuntu application testcases this weekend before I do a call for those to be tested next week
<brainwash> eric_the_idiot: hey, were you able to reproduce the xfdesktop 4.11 theme issue (race condition after login) or find some explanation for this scenario? if no, should I try to debug it somehow?
<slickymaster> elfy: the numbers of tests seem to raise a bit
<elfy> reported do you mean?
<slickymaster> yes
<elfy> yep - call did make some difference :)
<elfy> they might be getting the message now all the people in -testers get spammed by me too :p
<slickymaster> :)
<elfy> biab - just doing a tortilla :p
<slickymaster> jjfrv8: has done quite a few
<slickymaster> I'm off ->
<jarnos> brainwash, is that VIRTUAL1 display visible in xrandr output somehow connected to light-locker?
<brainwash> jarnos: why would you think so?
<jarnos> brainwash, well you told it uses another VT or something..
<brainwash> I assume it's related to a multi monitor setup
<brainwash> virtual1 like in virtual screen
<jarnos> brainwash, but I have not seen it before even if I have haf multi monitor setup.
<brainwash> you were able to switch to another vt before you have installed light-locker
<brainwash> light-locker is just a daemon to trigger lightdm actions
<brainwash> well, try #xorg
<brainwash> jarnos: were you able to resolve the screen blanking issue?
<jarnos> brainwash, I was inspecting it
<brainwash> jarnos: but you haven't created a bug report yet, or?
<jarnos> brainwash, yes
<brainwash> might be related to your graphics card + driver
<brainwash> so a report could help to keep track of this problem and resolve it sooner
<elfy> sergio-br2: by the way - bug 1267742 
<ubottu> bug 1267742 in xserver-xorg-video-nouveau (Ubuntu) "Screen artifacts appear after restart and cold boot" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1267742
<brainwash> ^ that's a security issue?
<brainwash> oh, I should have read the comments first
<sergio-br2> elfy, i got this with kernel 3.13
<sergio-br2> but it seems it is less than with 3.12. Dunno
<elfy> sergio-br2: yes - same with both here
<elfy> brainwash: yep - security as far as I'm concerned - and probably those people who's details on the forum I have complete access too 
<sergio-br2> it's funny to see Windows things in xubuntu login screen
<brainwash> strange, how does the previous screen content survive a restart.. :D
<sergio-br2> so it's a security issue :D
<brainwash> mmh, the package maintainer might complain about the lack of log files
<jarnos> brainwash, have you tried the greeter in multi monitor setup?
<brainwash> are other greeters or gdm affected too?
<brainwash> jarnos: no
<elfy> sergio-br2: it is if I have someone's forum control panel open and am looking at their e-mail/infraction record and I happen to restart and then wander off - the login screen is left with all that information sitting there
<sergio-br2> or if you was accessing your bank...
<brainwash> so it's clearly related to kernel 3.13?
<sergio-br2> not exactly
<elfy> brainwash: no - I got it with the previous as well 
<sergio-br2> yeah, here too
<brainwash> during the whole trusty dev cycle?
<elfy> brainwash: "mmh, the package maintainer" you talking about me there? 
<elfy> yep - whole cycle - I think that bluesabre has some idea of a hack to deal with it - but not seen him since
<brainwash> package maintainer is the "Ubuntu X-SWAT" team
<elfy> are you talking about my bug?
<brainwash> would be interesting to know, if it only happens with lightdm-gtk-greeter
<brainwash> yes
<elfy> I'll probably get that penalvach telling me to go sort stuff out with gedit etc
<brainwash> see https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-nouveau
<elfy> he'll get a short sharp shock 
<brainwash> this name looks familiar
<elfy> probably becasue I was complaining about it the other evening ;)
<brainwash> maybe this too
<brainwash> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/1098334/comments/184
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1098334 in xf86-video-intel "[gen4 sna] Font corruption" [Medium,In progress]
<brainwash> :)
<brainwash> is he the new sheriff in launchpad town?
<elfy> no idea 
<elfy> funny thing is - once I'm booted I get no issues with either nouveau or nvidia - it is just restarts and boot
<elfy> come to think of it - I got a similar thing when we were looking at the xmir thing
<elfy> so current state of play here is - use nouveau and get this issue or install nvidia and have to fiddle about to get the machine to boot properly
<elfy> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers-331/+bug/1267442
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1267442 in nvidia-graphics-drivers-331 (Ubuntu) "Install nvidia-331 on Xubuntu results in unbootable machine" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<brainwash> you didn't test any other login greeter yet, right?
<elfy> being the other bug I reported 
<elfy> nope
<brainwash> you could test it with unity-greeter, but make sure that you don't install any of the recommended packages
<brainwash> otherwise it will pull a dozen of extra packages
<elfy> :)
<elfy> command to set the greeter option ? can't remember it of the top of my head
<brainwash> /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf
<elfy> or edit lightdm conf 
<elfy> yea
<elfy> nothing amiss that time - I'll run with it for a day or so - or until it happens
<elfy> brainwash: ^^
<brainwash> ok :)
<elfy> so - at least if we know it's not every greeter we have half a chance with it 
<knome> jjfrv8, you around?
<knome> elfy, you around?
<elfy> yep
<elfy> what's up?
<knome> elfy, can you confirm if you still have the bug in the staging website?
<knome> whether we use the navigation buttons, i'd like to fix that bug if possible
<knome> elfy, can you also confirm me which version of firefox you are using
<elfy> knome: ff 26 - which bug do you mean? 
<knome> the one with the misplaced nav buttons for the slider
<knome> actually, the slider itself looked like it was misplaced...
<elfy> yep - they aren't lining up if that's what you mean
<knome> hmm, right.
<knome> let me poke at it and get back to you soonish
<knome> i'm actually somewhat sure what it is...
<elfy> ok - I'm about for a while tonight - had a sleep about a couple of hours ago lol
<knome> ok, i'll try to be quick ;)
<elfy> no rush :)
<elfy> I still wonder if we really need them though
<knome> no, but i want to fix it
<knome> if we later decide we want them
<elfy> yep - understand :)
<knome> is it fixed now?
<knome> (boo for not being able to reproduce)
<elfy> nope 
<elfy> hangon - I'll -safe-mode f/fox
<knome> i wonder if you are forcing the use of some fonts
<elfy> possible
<knome> because i'm thinking that might be the culprit
<knome> or some font sizes...
<elfy> ok - looks right in chromium
<knome> yeah..
<knome> it's definitely a browser/setting-specific issue
<elfy> I set fonts to ubuntu and in advanced it's serif/ubuntu/ubuntu/ubuntu mono with allow pages to choose enabled
<knome> aha
<elfy> I'll remember that if you ask me to look at things again - I'd hate to be wasting your time and it's only me seeing it :)
<knome> well no, it should be fine for you as well
<knome> there *are* ways to fix that
<knome> if i just knew what it is :P
<elfy> LOL
<knome> font sizes? 16?
<knome> and minimum font size?
<elfy> font sizes are 12 and on advanced page 12 for serif/10 for monospace and minimum is 12
<knome> mhm
<elfy> right so setting the default to 16 the nav button now drops right down inside the screenshot 
<knome> mhm
<knome> i'll look at that
<knome> mhm
<elfy> odd - set it to 12 again and reloaded the page
<knome> it should be fixed now for any value
<elfy> the top of the nav button is nowmore or less level with the bottom of the top panel
<knome> thanks for debugging :)
<knome> huh?
<knome> ctrl+shift+R
<elfy> is that what you're aiming for ?^^
<knome> i just fixed it for me
<knome> no...
<knome> it should be on top of the shot
<knome> let me send a screenie
<elfy> ok - yep - just above 
<elfy> no - it's looking like you describe ^^
<knome> okay, good
<knome> as it should :)
<knome> now we can go and disable those...
<elfy> still don't like the straight edges though :p
<knome> like matti nykÃ¤nen said:
<knome> elÃ¤mÃ¤ on laiffii
<knome> "life is life"
<elfy> yep :)
<knome> i'm sure won't all ever agree on single details if we start arguing
<elfy> I use 'such is life' with regularity :)
<knome> *we
<knome> yeah, but that's different ;)
<knome> than nykÃ¤nen's quote...
<elfy> indeed - if we all agreed on stuff all the time - it would be really boring
<lderan> that it would be 
<elfy> hi lderan 
<lderan> hello :)
<elfy> hi xequence 
<elfy> I keep trying to ze<tab> ... 
<knome> heh
<elfy> oic why now 
<elfy> one of each on the forum
#xubuntu-devel 2014-01-11
<elfy> brainwash: 2 or 3 reboots/cold starts since yesterday - nothing with the unity-greeter
<elfy> ali1234: I've forgotten what you said a while back - what is that's stopping indicator-applications from working in gtk3 ind panel? 
<brainwash> elfy: so you should add lightdm-gtk-greeter to the list of affected packages
<brainwash> + a comment containing the package version
<bluesabre> hey elfy, brainwash
<bluesabre> go ahead and ping ochosi too
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> I can start work on my fix for the graphical corruptions today
<elfy> brainwash: funny that - did it this morning :p
<elfy> hi bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey elfy
<bluesabre> how are things?
<elfy> pretty good thanks - you?
<bluesabre> same
<bluesabre> setting up my new ubuntu vps
<elfy> your graphical corruptions comment - is that this stuff = bug 1267742
<ubottu> bug 1267742 in xserver-xorg-video-nouveau (Ubuntu) "Screen artifacts appear after restart and cold boot" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1267742
<bluesabre> yeah, that should be it
<bluesabre> we had hoped that by properly setting the image with x, the problem would be resolved
<elfy> okey doke - just checking - I know we spoke about it pre-xmas, but then I've not seen you much since
<bluesabre> since it doesn't, I'm going back to using GtkImage assuming everything with that works correctly
<elfy> I trust you to know that isn't gobbledygook :p
<bluesabre> :D
<elfy> bbs
<ochosi> bluesabre: hm, what exactly is up? i feel like i've been missing something here..
<bluesabre> ochosi: the graphical corruption in the login screen with nouveau and other drivers
<ochosi> "with nouveau and other.."? :)
<ochosi> = all drives?
<ochosi> +r
<bluesabre> and *potentially* other drivers
<bluesabre> better? :)
<ochosi> ah the garbled background
<bluesabre> thats the one!
<ochosi> well at least that doesn't make things unusable
<ochosi> but it's a long-standing one
<ochosi> and iirc there wasn't much we could do about it
<ochosi> you added some workarounds but not sure they worked
<bluesabre> the gtkimage branch I was using fixed it with gtk
<ochosi> you used a gtkimage for the bg?
<bluesabre> 1 gtkimage per display
<ochosi> i see
<ochosi> why not a window?
<ochosi> or a gtkdrawing-area that we could draw into with cairo?
<bluesabre> yeah, we could probably do that
<bluesabre> I figured gtkimage was the simplest though
<bluesabre> since we are already making a pixbuf, we set the image to that
<ochosi> yeah, if we wanna forget about the cross-fading fast :>
<bluesabre> true
<ochosi> yeah, but from a pixbuf, drawing with cairo is just as easy
<bluesabre> k, so that sounds reasonable then
<ochosi> gdk_cairo_set_source_pixbuf(..); cairo_paint(cr);
 * ochosi has done lotsa cairo stuff this week
<ochosi> not sure you read it, but i implemented a proof-of-concept for making avatars circular
<ochosi> we could also check how unity-greeter sets the background
<bluesabre> yup
<bluesabre> we could hack on that today
<bluesabre> if you're around
<elfy> hi ochosi 
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, i mam
<ochosi> am
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> brb, lunchtime
<ochosi> hey elfy 
<ochosi> ok, i'm back
<ochosi> elfy: whazzup?
<ochosi> bluesabre: when is a good time for you? now?
<bluesabre> ochosi: soon, migrating my server atm
<ochosi> okeydokey, just ping me
<ochosi> we should also look at what exactly we wanna fix in the greeter
<ochosi> background drawing is one thing
<ochosi> related is cross-fading, which i looked into last night
<ochosi> and custom avatar-drawing, which is highly optional
<elfy> ochosi: did you know I reported this bug yesterday and marked it as a security issue 
<ochosi> nope
<elfy> I'd not ever thought of it like that till I restarted and came back to someone's forum login details/infractions/e-mail on the login screen
<ochosi> but it's a kinda long-standing issue
<elfy> yea - I remembered evntually last night seeing it with xmir 
<ochosi> we'll try to fix it for real this time
<ochosi> i guess it'll take some refactoring of the code
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> maybe you can test something tomorrow or on monday
<elfy> yep - not working here till Thursday (hopefully) so just shout out :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: i just checked out unity greeter and it seems that everything is within one main window
<bluesabre> makes sense
<ochosi> we should probably refactor our code to do that as well...
<bluesabre> since we're using cairo, we could do the same with GtkOverlay (but only once we kill gtk2)
<ochosi> but it's a lot of refactoring to be frank
<bluesabre> yup
<ochosi> at least if we wanna put everything in one window
<elfy> bluesabre: quick question re mugshot - I'm just checking the testcases, it assumes that it's installed - of course it's not there yet - is the PPA ok for people to use?
<ochosi> alternatively we could probably also just create a background_window that we paint separately. that should work i think...
<bluesabre> elfy, yes, the ppa should be fine. mugshot won't change much at all
<elfy> ok - thanks
<bluesabre> ochosi: yup, thats an option (and my gtkimage code should be a good basis for that)
<ochosi> yeah, it's basically the same, just with a different widget
<bluesabre> since its a GtkImage on a background_window
<ochosi> the drawing routine is pretty much the same as what i added in the transparency branch#
<elfy> bluesabre: except there's no trusty in there yet - can you do that before I do the call later in week?
<ochosi> since we already have a global background pixbuf there, we can simply reuse it
<bluesabre> elfy: oh! I'll do taht today
<bluesabre> *that
<bluesabre> ochosi: check if you can login: http://162.243.104.6/doku/doku.php
<elfy> thanks
<ochosi> phu, what was my pwd again :)
<bluesabre> lol
<bluesabre> my problem too :P
<ochosi> ok, successfully logged in
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> my site is almost transferred now :)
<elfy> bluesabre: when you've got a mo - need to talk about mugshot bug
<bluesabre> elfy: whats the bug?
<elfy> no camera option
<elfy> that's with the mugshot-dev-daily-trusty.list
<ochosi> bluesabre: good, so we can start with the greeter soon :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: imo, we should first finalize/merge the transparency branch, cause it'll help with the background stuff
<bluesabre> ochosi: already merged
<ochosi> oh :)
<bluesabre> elfy, do you have gstreamer1.0-plugins-good installed?
<elfy> yep
<bluesabre> ok... :\
<bluesabre> I'll get back to you on that
<elfy> ok - no rush, if I have to I'll make a note in the testing call not to worry about the camera for the moment
<elfy> bluesabre: also there is the help bug for it too - jjfrv8 reported that one recently
<bluesabre> elfy: yeah, probably going to get rid of the help button altogether
<elfy> :)
<elfy> that works too :p
<ochosi> bluesabre: personally, i would leave the whole background drawing routine there (for the cairo root bg) and just add the window on top of it
<ochosi> as opposed to what you did in the image-branch (replacing the rootbg with the window)
<bluesabre> yeah, that was before the fixed rootbg
<ochosi> mmh
<ochosi> bluesabre: i've started to manually merge in the image branch
<bluesabre> ochosi: good luck :)
<ochosi> yeah, might need it :)
<ochosi> it builds, but i haven't touched your glist stuff yet
<ochosi> bluesabre: hm, it still builds and works...
<ochosi> can you use/test nouveau?
<ochosi> if so, i can push it to a new branch
<ochosi> and if it works like this, i'll do away with the gtkimage and draw in the window directly with cairo
<ochosi> (and after that we could look into the fading)
<ochosi> bluesabre: please test and let me know: https://code.launchpad.net/~lightdm-gtk-greeter-team/lightdm-gtk-greeter/background_window
<elfy> well - all I can say is - checking testcases is a whole lot more boring than writing them - and that was boring enough
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> bluesabre: ok, i managed to run a quick test
<ochosi> sooo
<ochosi> the background is fine now
<ochosi> but but but
<ochosi> when you log in, because of the retain-permanent stuff, the garbled stuff comes up for a split-second
<ochosi> because it's in the rootpixmap
<ochosi> no idea why that one is so garbled
<ochosi> silly nouveau
<elfy> indeed :p
<ochosi> it really seems to be a nouveau-only problem
<ochosi> have never seen that with any other driver
<elfy> yep - I can install nvidia and it's fine
<ochosi> hm, so with a bg-image everything is fine in the login-transition
<ochosi> the corruption now seems to only happen with setting a bg-color in the greeter.conf
<ochosi> also, fake transparency breaks with that
<ochosi> bluesabre: ^
<ochosi> i think the security issue is still less grave when the garbled stuff only comes up for a very short period in the login
<ochosi> (in comparison to having it there on the login screen where you have time to take notes)
<bluesabre> ochosi: could we draw the root pixbuf after the window is visible?
<ochosi> bluesabre: sure, but what diff would that make?
<bluesabre> dunno, but worth a short
<bluesabre> *shot
<ochosi> personally i don't think we can do much about the login-transition with nouveau
<ochosi> (apart from filing a bugreport against nouveau wrt root-pixmap)
<elfy> ochosi> i think the security issue is still less grave when the garbled stuff only comes up for a very short period in the login
<elfy> that's fine as long as someone doesn't get called away 
<ochosi> called away?
<ochosi> not  sure i get what you mean
<elfy> could be at work or something - just saying - then it's sitting there till you come back
<ochosi> no
<elfy> what do you mean no?
<ochosi> with the current patch, it's only visible for a split-second *after* you've entered your password
<ochosi> so that's exactly my point, it can't sit there anymore
<elfy> sorry then - not read the whole scrollback :)
<ochosi> no worries ;)
<elfy> just make it part of the 45 second grey bit lol 
<ochosi> yeah, more or less
<ochosi> nothing much we can do about that it seems
<elfy> with the current patch, it's only visible for a split-second *after* you've entered your password
<elfy> that would certainly allay my worries
<ochosi> err, why are you parroting me? :pÃ¼
<brainwash> for any user?
<elfy> ochosi: just so you know what I'm saying is fine :p
<ochosi> elfy: hehe, ok
<brainwash> so copying the strategy of unity-greeter is not possible?
<ochosi> brainwash: what is the strategy of unity-greeter?
<brainwash> don't know, but it works without any corruption
<ochosi> well now the bug happens *after* the greeter, so it
<ochosi> 's a bit out of our hand
<ochosi> s
<ochosi> now it's a question of how the session/xfwm starts up i'd say
<ochosi> copying the root-pixmap in xfwm4 is actually what should now produce the corruption, ironically
<brainwash> ok, so it breaks the seamless transition :(
<ochosi> from how i understand things, nouveau breaks the seemless transition, yes
<brainwash> do you use the patched xfwm4?
<brainwash> or properly built I mean
<brainwash> monitor root pixmap
<ochosi> i use Unit193's PPA
<brainwash> ok
<ochosi> anyway, you test it, you're the login-transition expert ;)
<brainwash> I can only test with intel/AMD
<ochosi> knowing whether it works with that is also helpful
<elfy> given instructions I don't need to think about I can test with nouveau and nvidia
<brainwash> right, but it would help even more, if this stuff would be available for everyone to test (daily image)
<elfy> of course
 * elfy has been banging that particular drum since October :p
<elfy> I'd apologise - but I'll be doing the same thing in May - so it hardly seems appropriate :D
<brainwash> we still don't know when new fixes/features will land in the official repo?
<elfy> no idea
<ochosi> bluesabre: actually i think the branch fixes it for me more or less
<ochosi> since there is no more visible corruption in the greeter anymore, it's also not retained anymore
<ochosi> so after one more reboot i don't see those crazy artifacts anymore
<ochosi> was only retained the first time when i hadn't used the fix
<ochosi> so if you can confirm that, i'll work on drawing the bg with cairo instead of loading it into the gtkimage
<knome> jjfrv8, i need to catch you some day so we can sit down and go through the documentation blueprint to check the actual status and reassess what's realistic to achieve this cycle, and further see how we're laying that out
<elfy> hi knome 
<knome> hey elfy
<elfy> knome: need 10 minutes at some point soonish, just not now - early next week maybe? 
<knome> works for me
<elfy> ok :)
<eric_the_idiot> brainwash, I found a way to cause the xfdesktop theme issue, just need time to write and test a fix. Hopefully tomorrow.
<bluesabre> ochosi: awesome
<bluesabre> I'll check that out shortly
<ochosi> bluesabre: oh, nice, you're back :)
<bluesabre> we had stepped out for a few minutes, but our car died, so a few minutes became a few hours
<bluesabre> but now all is well
<ochosi> oh, sorry to hear :/
<ochosi> might not be around for much longer this evening (well, it's 8pm here)
<bluesabre> thats cool
<ochosi> but if you give me some test-results, i'll take care of the cairo-drawing to the latest on monday (might go for a trip tomorrow)
<bluesabre> I'll let you know if everything works
<ochosi> ok thanks
<ochosi> also, the transparency with bg-color-only needs another check
<bluesabre> k, I'll have a look
<bluesabre> ok, looks like my site is usable again
<ochosi> i have a local version here with cairo drawing already btw
<bluesabre> smdavis.us/doku or wiki.smdavis.us
<ochosi> so as soon as you greenlight me, i'll push
<bluesabre> k, one sec
<bluesabre> hm,background_window crashes in my test-mode
<bluesabre> there we go
<bluesabre> crashes with no wallpaper
<ochosi> bluesabre: what happens with wallpaper?
<bluesabre> works
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> then we have to set a big TODO for background colors :)
<ochosi> and i can push my current code
<ochosi> cause it also works with wallpapers
<ochosi> well in fact i might have to account for multi-monitor situations...
<ochosi> bluesabre: ok, try what i just pushed
<ochosi> bbl
<ochosi> or tomorrow
<bluesabre> crash
<bluesabre> I'll look into it
<Noskcaj> terminal 0.6.3 is now in trusty-proposed
<bluesabre> yay!
<bluesabre> Noskcaj, is that your doing? :)
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Yeah, bur finding a sponsor is difficult as always
<brainwash> no auto sync :(
<Noskcaj> one tiny patch
<brainwash> Noskcaj: any news regarding power-manager? it's kinda important, because saucy is affected too
<brainwash> and people continue to complain about this
<Noskcaj> brainwash, no, sorry. I suggest you go and ping corsac a lot
<brainwash> what about your PPA then?
<brainwash> it could be used instead (meantime)
<brainwash> via SRU
<brainwash> or is that a bad idea? like it creates too much overhead
<Noskcaj> brainwash, If someone else could do the SRU, that should be fine.
<ochosi> bluesabre: crash? details?
<bluesabre> ochosi: lightdm --test-mode, window pops up, I see the shape of the login window, lightdm dies
<jarnos> brainwash,  I have made some reports: https://bugs.launchpad.net/lightdm-gtk-greeter/+bug/1268099 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/x11-xserver-utils/+bug/1268080
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1268099 in LightDM GTK+ Greeter "Should use outputs enabled on host" [Undecided,New]
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1268080 in x11-xserver-utils (Ubuntu) "Changing screen settings by xrandr fails" [Undecided,New]
<brainwash> jarnos: I suggest reporting the xrandr issue upstream
<brainwash> it might get lost on launchpad
<brainwash> without anyone caring about it
<brainwash> ochosi is running a multi monitor setup, so he can take a look at issue #1
<ochosi> bluesabre: weird, gotta check it out
<brainwash> ochosi: what do you think about this.. an extra menu entry, panel item and/or key binding in gtk greeter to blank the screen on demand
<brainwash> in case the user does not want to wait 10min until the next screen blank
<brainwash> or is it planned to reduce the timeout to like 1min or less (similar to xscreensaver)?
<brainwash> so check for lock_hint while initializing the greeter and if it's set call the set_saver() function
<jarnos> I think esc key could be one way to enable screen saver, "i3lock --dpms" uses that.
<brainwash> reducing the timeout to 1min or so seems to be the way to go
<brainwash> xscreensaver even has this visual indicator to show the amount of time until the screen blanks again
<brainwash> while the session is locked and the user is required to type the password to unlock it
<jarnos> brainwash, i wonder, if I should have reported the xrandr bug against xorg, instead of x11-xserver-utils. Now the bug report does not contain any information about graphics driver and hardware.
<brainwash> jarnos: true, but x11-xserver-utils is the correct package
<brainwash> well, it might not be xrandr's fault after all
<brainwash> it's just a tool to manipulate the settings
<brainwash> the X server implements the randr extension
<brainwash> jarnos: an upstream report would inform the code maintainer(s)
<brainwash> oh, new upstream version of xfce4-terminal available in trusty :)
<brainwash> now with solarized theme
<brainwash> colortheme I mean
<jarnos> brainwash, xfce4-terminal has nice set of command line options :)
<brainwash> jarnos: new ones?
<jarnos> brainwash, I don't know.
<brainwash> I actually never use xfce4-terminal
<jarnos> brainwash,  --hold is handy, -x may be to
<brainwash> I only open it to confirm bugs
<jarnos> oh
<brainwash> but a new release it still awesome
<jarnos> brainwash, how? 
<ali1234> i've started using terminator
<brainwash> jarnos: I mean that a new version of a core application is something great
<brainwash> and if we adopt them early, then we got more time to test until the final release
<jarnos> brainwash, do you mean I should report the xrandr issue upstream against xorg?
#xubuntu-devel 2014-01-12
<sergio-br2> it seems nvidia-331 is problematic with dual card graphics too... Bug #1268184 
<ubottu> bug 1268184 in nvidia-graphics-drivers-331-updates (Ubuntu) "nvidia-331-updates fails on Asus UX302LG with Nvidia GT 730M (Optimus Technology)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1268184
<ochosi> brainwash: yeah, setting the timeout to something lower is planned, but not very high on my list right now. it's something completely new, so pretty much the same as if you start investigating it... (feel free to ;))
<ochosi> brainwash: also, there are now daily-builds of the xfce4-indicator-plugin, you might want to try to reproduce the layout bug you had with that: https://code.launchpad.net/~landronimirc/+archive/xfce-daily
<ochosi> brainwash: ok, that package isn't ready yet, the packaging needs some tweaks...
<jjfrv8> knome, I have a few hours tomorrow. Would, say, 15 to 18 work for you then? If not then, I should have some more time on Monday.
<knome> most probably not; monday sounds better
<jjfrv8> ok, if you name a time on Monday after 14 or so, I can probably make that.
<knome> my schedule is pretty flexible, but i need to be off for some time around 14-16UTC; anything after that should work for me too
<knome> what's the latest time that works for you?
<jjfrv8> 02ish
<knome> heh, that's really late for me
<knome> something like 20utc could be good
<jjfrv8> that'll fly
<knome> but let's follow up on the schedule closer on monday
<jjfrv8> sure
<knome> and thanks :)
<jjfrv8> ty
<knome> how's life? keeping you busy?
<jjfrv8> kinda
<jjfrv8> I'll check back with you on Monday
<knome> oki
<knome> have a nice weekend!
<jjfrv8> you too :)
<knome> will do
<knome> where's skellat when you need him?
<lderan> do not know :P
<Noskcaj> knome, Probably doing weekend stuff
<knome> open source is weekend stuff :P
<Noskcaj> good point
<knome> off for now, bbl
<knome> elfy, christoffer: meet each other
<knome> elfy, christoffer is running 14.04
<christoffer> Hi
<knome> ...also why i asked about the nvidia bug :)
<christoffer> thanks for the links to the bug reports knome 
<knome> np
<christoffer> will look in to that in a few hours
<knome> i just grepped the lastlog from this channel
<elfy> hi christoffer :)
<christoffer> hi elfy 
<brainwash> ochosi: ok, so the plan would be to 1) call 'lock' instead of 'switch-to-greeter' when resuming the system 2) alter the screen saver timeout via set_saver() 3) make the timeout value configurable via lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf, default 60sec or less
<elfy> bluesabre: you're welcome :p
<elfy> micahg: any idea when we can expect the livecd to login properly ? bug 1259525
<ubottu> bug 1259525 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Lubuntu & Xubuntu & Ubuntu Kylin lightdm session fails to start. user-session is not set" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1259525
<Migou> Hi everyone! Bonjour tout le monde
<Migou> Maybe it's too early in the morning?
<elfy> not at all - just Sunday ;)
<Migou> hi Elfy. well, i came here because I would like to suggest an -very small- improvement. I don't know if I'm on th right place.
<elfy> well - depends - but probably the best place would be the mailing list :)
<Migou> for several years, when I happen to click ont he "Open with another application" option, a file chooser opens and it's on a default directory which is not "/usr/bin". Considering (nearly?) all the applications are in /usr/bin, it would be great if the default file chooser location was "/usr/bin".
<elfy> I certainly understand that viewpoint
<Migou> great. well should I chose the xubuntu-users or xubuntu devel mailing list ?
<elfy> definitely the -devel list, but I'd read the content of this post to it by knome (Pasi) which should point you in the right direction 
<elfy> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2014-January/009615.html
<Migou> thx elfy, i'll test on a fresh xubuntu install and post on the devel list
<elfy> Unit193 or ochosi or anyone else - is there a reason why the tabwin dooby is defaulting here to room for 3 apps - rather than just go with what there actually is? 
<ochosi> elfy: that's the xfwm4 default
<ochosi> in the tabwin branch that is actually fixed
<elfy> ok ochosi - wonder why I'd not noticed previously - perhaps because it wasn't black
<ochosi> it always was black with greybird
<elfy> ok - I think probably my tabwin branch is being overridden by one of the other ppa's - mine is square edges
<ochosi> that's xfwm4 default
<ochosi> it has looked like that for the last 5 years without changes
<elfy> ochosi: really? how odd 
 * elfy cleans his glasses
<bluesabre> :)
<elfy> good lord - so it is ... 
<ochosi> elfy: well i'll take that as a compliment for the new tabwin ;)
<elfy> never noticed that - you can tell I'd be 'really' good at designing themes ... 
<elfy> ochosi: yea :p
<elfy> so - when we get these things really - will it have the nice rounded corners - I assume that's the plan - now that we've got black being new out of the way lol
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> and you'll also be able to click into it with the mouse
<ochosi> which is quite nice when there are many windows
<elfy> yea - I saw that fleetingly, I could pin to Unit193's ppa I think - not that worried though 
<elfy> lderan: wooho - I see that MP :p
<lderan> :P
<elfy> shall look at it and see if it makes sense to me 
<elfy> nope ... 
<elfy> :)
<lderan> :P
<lderan> hopefully will have a few basic ones up before the end of the day
<elfy> nice :)
<slickymaster> afternoon all
<lderan> hello slickymaster :)
<slickymaster> hi lderan. Hope everything is fine with you
<lderan> that it is thank you
<lderan> how about yourself?
<slickymaster> fine thanks
<slickymaster> but what are you thanking me?
<slickymaster> lderan, ^^
<lderan> for hoping everything is fine :P same reason for your thanks
<slickymaster> :)
<elfy> hi slickymaster 
<slickymaster> hi, elfy 
<slickymaster> I was about to ping you
<slickymaster> regarding https://code.launchpad.net/~elfy/ubuntu-manual-tests/minorchanges/+merge/201284
<elfy> I thought you might - just check them and then when we know they're ok - I'll merge them and update tracker
<slickymaster> that was my doubt? I'ill just review them since I don't have permissions for merging
<elfy> yep - I just want another set of eyes on them - thought you'd not mind
<elfy> checked the testcases for this week's call yesterday
<elfy> I've got some others as well - I think they're re removal of the old post-install test, but they can wait
<slickymaster> I'll start on them and I think that by tuesday you'll be able to merge them
<elfy> waiting for bluesabre with the mugshot one as well
<elfy> slickymaster: no rush, I'll be calling at the end of the week
<slickymaster> ok, but I'll done before that
<elfy> ta :)
<elfy> off for a bit now
<Noskcaj> lderan, I think we're meant to be making a different autopilot branch for xubuntu, rather than adding to ubuntu-autopilot-tests
<lderan> ah ok
<elfy> Noskcaj: did nick pronounce on that yet? 
<Noskcaj> elfy, Not from what i've seen. But i agree we should. 
<elfy> so did I - but he is the boss :p
<lderan> :P
<elfy> Noskcaj: yea - you mentioned it and he ignored it :p
<elfy> I'll try and remember to mention it tomorrow
<elfy> bluesabre: did you get anywhere at all with mugshot? ppa and camera - if not - is it likely before mid-week - reason being I'm doing a package test call at the end of the week - if necessary I'll tell people not to test if currently
<elfy> slickymaster lderan Unit193 - I made a XubuntuQA user for the trello thingy - you can use that one to assign things to the team 
<lderan> awesome :)
<elfy> you'll see I have been swapping E for an X :p
<lderan> yup
<bluesabre> elfy, try installing gstreamer1.0-tools
<bluesabre> ppa-wise, I'm using trusty and the mugshot ppa, theres def. a package in there
<elfy> ahah - it's there now :)
<elfy> bluesabre: ok - cool, so I can check the testcase now, I think the other day I had issue with the other ppa - I've got dev-daily here
<slickymaster> elfy, line 37 of the abiword testcase is missing a tab
<elfy> slickymaster: could you comment on the MP - I'll forget otherwise :)
<elfy> then I can do any fixes at the same time :)
<slickymaster> ok, I'll do it
<slickymaster> but I'll review all of them, first
<elfy> there is somewhere there you can comment - you don't need to do anything to the code itself
<slickymaster> yeah, I know
<elfy> just checking - sounded like you were off to change line 37 :p
<slickymaster> no, no :)
<elfy> bluesabre: so for people to test mugshot atm - they need to install dev-daily PPA/mugshot/gstreamer1.0-tools - that right?
<bluesabre> yeah, I'll try to update the dependencies to include that now
<elfy> ok
<knome> Migou, hello
<knome> jjfrv8, 16UTC would be good for me tomorrow
<Migou> salut knome :)
<Migou> oops, hi knome
<knome> Migou, i'm not sure i follow your comment; i don't seem to have any problem with it
<Migou> Indeed, I tested on a newly installed xubuntu, and there is no problem
<knome> whenever i select "open with other application", i get a list of apps instead of a file location chooser
<knome> and even if i select a custom command, the default folder is indeed /usr/bin...
<Migou> On my computer too, it turned back to normal.
<knome> ok
<Migou> so, keep on the good work :)))
<knome> thanks
<knome> Migou, if you are interested in helping, we have several tasks todo and not yet assigned this cycle...
<Migou> why not.
<elfy> why not indeed :)
<Migou> but something not too time consuming please ^^
<Migou> what would you suggest?
<knome> Migou, if you are interested in quality assurance, we always need more testers for example
<knome> Migou, or if you prefer writing, we would always do well with more hands on getting documentation and other user-facing stuff in better shaep
<knome> *shape
<slickymaster> Yes, Migou we're always needing testers: http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/306/builds
<Migou> that means, installing the beta release and giving feedback?
<knome> Migou, installing the (now alpha) development release and sending testing reports
<slickymaster> yes, Migou. Make sure you don't forget to login at the tracker, otherwise the tests won't be accounted
<Migou> i'll do that. 
<knome> Migou, if you need help, you can ask this channel; elfy is our QA lead, slickymaster is a team member also working with QA
<knome> and i happen to be the monkey steering the ship
<Migou> :)))
<elfy> Migou: are you subscribed to the -dev mailing list and/or in the xubuntu-testers group on launchpad - if you are then you'll get told what and when we're testing
<elfy> if you aren't do one or the other :)
<Migou> yeah, elfy is very efficient at QA. He was the first to answer me
<elfy> only because I saw you asking :)
<Migou> Ok, i'll subscribe the dev mailing list
<Migou> if you need some competences regarding french language, i'm your man...
<slickymaster> Migou, https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-testers
<knome> Migou, you can translate the documentation into french
<knome> Migou, https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs
<elfy> do we need it trasnlating into en_AU ... :p
<knome> i'm happy as long as i can keep it translated for finnish ;)
<elfy> :)
<Noskcaj> elfy, yep ;)
<elfy> Noskcaj: lol - I did check you were online before I asked 
<Migou> knome, you're from finland?
<knome> Migou, yep
<Migou> nice to meet you
<slickymaster> watch out Noskcaj, elfy might be weaving a web
<knome> you too
<Noskcaj> :)
<Migou> is there a way to install an iso withour burning a CD ?
<elfy> usb
<Migou> so it requires a blank usb key, right?
<elfy> Migou: you can install it to a usb - I use unetbootin
<elfy> yea
<Migou> cause i've got a 32 usb key, but it's a bit sad to sacrifice it :D
<sergio-br2> are there things to be translated to portuguese (br) ?
<sergio-br2> i think i can help
<knome> sergio-br2, how different is that from portuguese?
<knome> slickymaster translated the docs into portuguese already
<sergio-br2> hum, ok
<drc> Migou: You can use gparted to partition the USB, then unetboot to install to that partition and the rest of the USB stick is still available for use.
<Migou> i'll try this.
<Migou> thx
<slickymaster> well knome, it's a bit the spoken english in the states and the spoken english in england
<slickymaster> a b it like
<slickymaster> ^~
<knome> slickymaster, you mean, like en and en_AU :P
<slickymaster> yeah, quite
<slickymaster> there are differences in slang, mostly
<knome> i wonder if it's different enough to warrant a separate translation
<sergio-br2> about qa, i'm doing some hardware testing, but there is no qa to trusty. I have 3 (maybe 4) different hardwares here
<knome> i mean, sure, if people want to port it, but it's quite a lot of work, and if strings change, it's double the work to maintain both languages
<knome> sergio-br2, no qa to trusty? what do you mean?
<sergio-br2> *no hardware qa to trusty, i mean laptop.qa
<knome> sergio-br2, i see trusty daily in there
<sergio-br2> there is only to saucy beta.
<elfy> not sure that's being used 
<slickymaster> knome,  from that point of view, there's no reason to maintain two separate translations even because there's an official orthographic agreement signed between the two countries
<knome> slickymaster, :)
<elfy> knome sergio-br2 it only appears to be ubuntu things in there anyway
<sergio-br2> ?
<knome> elfy, yes, but hardware stuff is the same in all flavors, so...
<knome> i don't know how the laptop tracker is supposed to be organized
 * elfy is waiting for Scotland to seperate from England and then get loads of karma for setting up en_HA
<knome> i'd ask balloons
<elfy> HA being short for haggis
<knome> elfy, en_HAH
<elfy> HAG
<elfy> :p
<slickymaster> sergio-br2, one thing you can do is to register your hardware ate https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Hardware
<sergio-br2> yeah, i did it
<slickymaster> ok
<sergio-br2> 2 hardwares profiles
<elfy> knome: I've never really seen much reference to laptop.qa - certainly not in the last cycle and a bit - perhaps autopilot has taken over from it
<knome> no idea
<slickymaster> elfy knome , I think https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-laptop-testing is still active
<elfy> might be - but if you follow it to the /plans/laptoptesting - it is old
<sergio-br2> so, only important is iso and packages qa?
<elfy> sergio-br2: as far as I am aware yes
<brainwash> bluesabre: mugshot only creates a copy of the selected picture (~/.face) and does not use accountsservice?
<sergio-br2> and for iso, alpha 1 or daily? i'm not using alpha 1 anymore
<brainwash> bluesabre: and I noticed that menulibre is present twice in the settings manager (personal + system subsection)
<elfy> sergio-br2: always daily unless there is a CURRENT call for a specific alpha/beta test
<sergio-br2> ok
<elfy> in fact you should only be able to report to the one we want testing :)
<elfy> we mark them ready or closed or remove them if necessary
<bluesabre> brainwash: to my understanding, thats all that needs to be done (.face)
<bluesabre> and I'll fix the menulibre multiple menu items
<elfy> bluesabre: is menulibre2 close? 
<brainwash> bluesabre: well, setting the picture via accountsservice seems to be the better method, on top of that, it would be nice if the picture could be copied somewhere to / (in case the user has an encrypted /home)
<brainwash> or just ignore the people who encrypt /home?
<ali1234> it should use a default image in the case of encrypted home
<brainwash> by design?
<bluesabre> elfy: very
<bluesabre> will have the release this week
<bluesabre> brainwash: I'll look at the accountsservice api
<brainwash> ok
<elfy> bluesabre: excellent - we can forge ahead soon getting testcase up and testing done on it :)
<bluesabre> absolutely
<bluesabre> sorry I haven't gotten it done sooner, life has been getting in the way increasingly these past few weeks
<elfy> bluesabre: no worries - even if I do whine a lot :p
<elfy> we all have one of those :)
<knome> not sure of myself, but if elfy says so...
<knome> ;)
<elfy> knome: yep - you have a r/l - I noticed you saying you were going out earlier - or was it a lie :p
<elfy> and you just lurked for 5 hours ... 
<knome> haha ;)
 * drc heard that he <was> going out, until the knomette said he had to wash up first, so he just lurked.
<elfy> musthave been in #shimmer or something then :p
<knome> i'll leave that undisclosed
<knome> err
<knome> disclosed
<knome> :P
<elfy> knome: you about tomorrow at all - I'm not working so more or less whenever
<knome> elfy, trying to catch up with jjfrv8 at 16utc if that works at all for him; after that's good
<elfy> ok - will be feeding kids at the zoo about 18-19~UTC
<elfy> shouldn't take too long anyway :)
<knome> oki
<knome> after that works as well
<elfy> ok - would be handy for me to know how many people are on the -dev list as well if you've got that raw data
<knome> i do
<knome> i can get it for you right now
<elfy> thanks 
<elfy> well - that'll do - night all
<ochosi> brainwash: i would presume that this could be a solution: http://www.x.org/archive/X11R7.6/doc/man/man3/DPMSSetTimeouts.3.xhtml
<ochosi> i'm just worried that if a new session gets started on VT8 after someone from VT7 has locked their session, they would inherit the DPMS setting (as xfce-session doesn't touch those values)
<ochosi> well, unless powermanager gets fixed up to take care of that
<ali1234> wouldn't it be a totally new X server instance?
<ali1234> so it shouldn't keep anything like DPMS
<ali1234> but don't quote me on that
<ochosi> you mean the greeter on VT8 and the session on VT8 (after logging in) are different X-server instances?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> but that instance shouldn't inherit anything from VT7
<ochosi> but that is my concern
<ochosi> ok, what i meant is this. active session in vt7 -> lock (i.e. dpms timeout of 1min in greeter on vt8) -> other_user logs in on greeter on vt8 -> session on vt8 still has that timeout of 1min dpms
<ali1234> ah yes, that could be a problem i suppose
<ochosi> although well
<ali1234> make the greeter undo whatever it does?
<ochosi> if i can modify those settings, i can also query and reset them...
<ali1234> right
<ochosi> in fact, this seems to be a good sample implementation: http://www.karlrunge.com/x11vnc/blockdpy.c
<ochosi> btw, do you by any chance use the greeter with a static wallpaper?
<ali1234> static?
<ochosi> (i.e. not the one xfdesktop uses via accountsservice)
<ochosi> (but the one defined in the greeter.conf)
<ali1234> yes, but only because i have a newer xfdesktop installed, and the greeter/accounts service cannot get my user wallpaper
<ochosi> could you do me a favor and test the latest greeter for me like that?
<ali1234> my machine is currently saucy with a load of bodges installed
<ochosi> i'm mostly wondering whether fake transparency still works
<ochosi> yeah, same here...
<ochosi> but my accountsservice is somehow borked, i use xfdesktop from the 4.12ppa, which should have the accountsservice patch (or so i thought)
<ochosi> i just pushed a fix for using a fixed background color, but i can't test a static wallpaper
<ali1234> if you select guest login that should be equivalent to no user wallpepr
<ochosi> cause it just has some old accountsservice setting that i can't seem to reset
<ochosi> ah right
<ochosi> well, as that one works, i guess we're safe
<ochosi> just noticed after bluesabre had already merged my branch that the static color isn't handled
<ali1234> the wallpaper loading code is very simple, i can't see any reason it would not work
<ali1234> it all goes through the same function where you dup the pointer
<ali1234> solid colour is handled differently
<ochosi> yeah, with the exception of the color
<ochosi> anyway, i guess before i can look into the dpms thing, i have to fix the background drawing with nouveau :(
<ochosi> there's always garbled stuff from previous sessions there as a background
<ochosi> (only with nouveau, as far as i could determine up to now)
<ali1234> always?
<ochosi> pretty consistently, yes
<ali1234> as in you never see the correct wallpaper at all?
<ochosi> some problem with how nouveau handles (or doesn't handle?) the root pixmap
<ochosi> i checked out unity-greeter, and that has a separate window for the background
<ochosi> that implementation seems to work
<ali1234> yeah
<ochosi> so i started working on that, just putting a separate window containing the same thing a the root-pixmap on top of it but below everything else
<ochosi> and then drawing the background there with cairo
<brainwash> ochosi: http://www.x.org/archive/X11R7.6/doc/man/man3/XGetScreenSaver.3.xhtml
<ochosi> it's annoying, i don't use nouveau, but since ppl get that by default in xubuntu with nvidia graphics, i guess we better make sure the greeter works with that
<brainwash> just to blank the screen
<brainwash> not to turn if off
<ochosi> brainwash: why not turn it off?
<brainwash> uhm
<brainwash> so no more plain blanking?
<brainwash> just force dpms
<ochosi> dunno, i'll try your suggestion first
<ochosi> it's a lot easier to implement
<ochosi> basically two lines i think
<brainwash> lets stay with blanking and make it configurable
<brainwash> but the actual login screen should not be affected, right?
<brainwash> only unlock one
<ochosi> yeah, it'd only affect lock-screens
<brainwash> lock_hint
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> testing this now, brb
<brainwash> so we need to tell light-locker to trigger 'lock' instead of 'switch-to-greeter' when resuming the system
<brainwash> to pass the lock_hint
<brainwash> otherwise the lock screen will behave differently in this scenario
<brainwash> and not blank after 1min or so
<ochosi> ok, that works
<ochosi> but it has the effect i described earlier, so i need to first get the default values and the reset them before exiting the greeter
<ochosi> so it really will be a very tiny patch in the end, i hope
<brainwash> yea
<brainwash> The XGetScreenSaver function gets the current screen saver values.
<ochosi> i know
<ochosi> i'm just wondering whether we really want to make our greeter.conf file even longer
<ochosi> or just set sensible defaults
<brainwash> so, should it be configurable via lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf?
<brainwash> the timeout value I mean
<ochosi> (i mean setting sensible defaults is out of the question anyway)
<ochosi> maybe
<ochosi> i think i'll first implement them hardcoded, we can make them configurable later
<brainwash> right
<ochosi> i also want some more testing as to whether resetting the values works
<ochosi> i've also never really tested it in a multihead setup
<ochosi> i currently just get the default display, also when locking the display
<brainwash> so multi monitor setups will cause some trouble
#xubuntu-devel 2015-01-05
<jjfrv8> brainwash, I took your suggestion re the ppa, but no joy. I updated the bug report with the results.
<jjfrv8> this laptop is just a testbed for now so I'm willing to try anything on it.
<ochosi> morning everyone
<Unit193> ochosi: You again? :(
<ochosi> Unit193: yeah, me again. when's the next team meeting? :)
<Unit193> Monday.
<ochosi> ah right, that's today
<Unit193> Unless we have nothing, but in that case I'm more inclined to do a 3 minute meeting and get it over with already. :P
<ochosi> heh
<ochosi> bluesabre: i've added support for a custom panel background for ubiquity's panel in greybird (git master) and also pushed a branch with the relevant changes to ubiquity to a branch: https://code.launchpad.net/~ochosi/ubiquity/xubuntu-panel-bg
<ochosi> might do some more changes to greybird, but as soon as we have that version supporting it uploaded, i'd create the MR based on that branch
<brainwash> jjfrv8: you should also test a recent kernel version, 3.17 or 3.18
<brainwash> jjfrv8: vivid still ships with 3.16. this could be reason why even upgrading to vivid did not fix the issue
<jjfrv8> brainwash, so then 3.16 was a regression?  Because things worked fine in Trusty and then broke in Utopic.
<brainwash> jjfrv8: possible, things change rapidly
<brainwash> from 3.13 to 3.16 to 3.17/18
<jjfrv8> if you can point me to a how-to on how to get .17 or .18, I'd be willing to try them.
<brainwash> easiest way would be to use http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/
<brainwash> and install the deb file manually (+ header deb files if needed)
<jjfrv8> might try it this evening, off to work now.
<brainwash> sure, now we know at least that we don't need to blame the power manager :)
<jjfrv8> yup
<ochosi> would've been a small surprise anyway
<ochosi> ;)
<elfy> ochosi: could make no sense of the diff (obviously) did the panel update I got today include the intelligent hide/shaded window issue? 
<elfy> hope not ... 
<ochosi> elfy: yeah
<ochosi> that issue hasn't been entirely resolved yet
<ochosi> my patch needs some amendments before it can be mergred
<ochosi> merged
<ochosi> the diff linked to above was only for ubiquity and has nothing to do with our user-session
<elfy> cool - that's fine - just wanted to make sure - as it hadn't worked here :D
<ochosi> another issue i noticed is regarding the clipboard in vivid
<ochosi> that seems to be strangely broken for me
<elfy> mmmm
<slickymasterWork> hey guys
<slickymasterWork> hope everyone had a nice holidays
<ochosi> hey slickymasterWork 
<slickymasterWork> hi ochosi
<ochosi> elfy: does "mmmm" mean you see that too?
<ochosi> yeah, as i wasn't here for most of the holidays, i obviously had a good time ;)
<slickymasterWork> unfortunately something come up and I won't be able to attend today's meeting 
<slickymasterWork> ochosi, elfy ^^^
<ochosi> righty
<ochosi> i'm not sure i'll be back in time either
<ochosi> have a dinner @friends place
<elfy> rarely use clipboards tbh - when I have been it's worked ok - what sort of issues are you seeing?
<slickymasterWork> any way, I've sent the second call for translations to the ML, today
<slickymasterWork> * anyway
<elfy> ochosi slickymasterWork so - opinion on doing alpha 2 ?
<ochosi> i don't see any roadblocks for alpha2 currently
<slickymasterWork> I don't see why we wouldn't
<elfy> I meant whether to bother or not ? 
<ochosi> in terms of getting more community testing, it might be a good step
<slickymasterWork> it's not that much more work, tbh
<elfy> slickymasterWork: lol - well I don't see why we would tbh
<ochosi> right, so your point is that nobody will test anyway?
<elfy> if we were chucking stuff into the mix that we wanted testing from staging perhaps 
<slickymasterWork> why we wouldn't = just 4 additional test, not that much elfy 
<elfy> ochosi: not so much that - just whether there's an issue
<elfy> slickymasterWork: if it was that simple I would agree - but it's not - sometimes they remember to set it up
<slickymasterWork> of course, one could also do some package testing while at it ;)
<elfy> if not there's chasing people in the right timezone to turn it on
<elfy> then there's days of chasing to get it turned off again so we can carry on doing dailies
<elfy> and the pointless exercise in doing release notes here there and everywhere for people to ignore
<elfy> so , no it's not just 4 addition tests ;)
<ochosi> release notes pile up though
<slickymasterWork> I see your point elfy, and I won't argue it because I know why it's a valid point, but if we're going to vote it, I'd be +1 on doing a2
<ochosi> so it's not really useless to do them in the beginning
<ochosi> just means less work towards the end of the cycle
<elfy> k - thanks - just wanted your opinions if you're not going to be there :)
<ochosi> sure :)
<ochosi> i'm curious to hear what the others have to say on the matter too
<slickymasterWork> np elfy, even if my opinion means some extra work to you
<slickymasterWork> sorry for that :P
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> the workload should be shared among the release-team members though
<elfy> I'm more likely to not releasing it to be honest :)
<ochosi> that includes bluesabre and me :)
<elfy> though I would love to be proved wrong of course 
<elfy> ochosi: yep - I know :D
<ochosi> there are some major changes that warrant an a2 release imo
<ochosi> e.g. gtk3 update
<ochosi> but also systemd
<elfy> systemd is still not default afaik
<elfy> and THAT was the main reason for possibly doing A2
<ochosi> oh it isn't
<elfy> just checking that 
<ochosi> i was under the impression it was
<elfy> appears to not be systemd, PID1 is init and not systemd
<ochosi> elfy: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/core-1411-systemd-migration
<ochosi> still quite a few blockers
<elfy> yep
<elfy> I don't mind us doing it as such - just the main reason to take part this cycle in it - is missing :)
<ochosi> actually i'm talking to some folks in u-devel now
<elfy> ok
<ochosi> seems like in the next grub release, ppl can choose whether to boot with upstart or systemd if both is installed
<elfy> mmk
<elfy> must be a new grub release, didn't notice this morning when I rebooted after that and panel updates
<ochosi> yeah, hasnt landed yet i think
<elfy> okey doke 
<brainwash> ochosi: the power manager is able to shutdown/hibernate/suspend the system after some inactivity, but what if the screen is locked in the meantime via light-locker?
<brainwash> now the power manager is not in command anymore
<brainwash> so, maybe not authorized to perform these actions anymore
<brainwash> the power manager is restricted by upower + polkit
<brainwash> bug 1319598 is currently assigned to xfpm, but is it really the one to blame?
<ubottu> bug 1319598 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "Power manager no longer suspends 'power manager not authorised'" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1319598
<Unit193> ochosi: Yes the grub fix has landed, I saw the diff of /etc/grub.d/10_linux last update and noticed it was checking for inits.
<Unit193> #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jan  5 22:00:01 2015 UTC.  The chair is Unit193. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<Unit193> Howdy and welcome to the Xubuntu community meeting.  Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<Unit193> Anyone else here for it?
<Unit193> Oh yey, at least elfy is here.
<elfy> yep
<Unit193> !team | Meeting time
<ubottu> Meeting time: bluesabre, elfy, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit193
<pleia2> o/
<Unit193> #topic Open action items
<elfy> just went to check grub ... 
<elfy> as I said earlier - not default ;)
<Unit193> elfy: Likely wouldn't be, systemd-sysv should be installed for that.
<Unit193> Alright, so I generally just see "elfy to converse with knome about QA processes"
<elfy> yep
<elfy> did that 
<Unit193> Yey!  That's all of them.
<Unit193> #topic Team updates
<Unit193> Free for all ^
<pleia2> #info Received 20 bundles of stickers and Xubuntu stickers from unixstickers.com
<elfy> \o/
<pleia2> we can talk about those later :)
<Unit193> Yep, see that under discussion.
<Unit193> #info We should have xfce4-panel, xfce4-indicator-plugin, and thunar updates landing soon, new releases from Xfce.
<Unit193> Anyone else?
<Unit193> #topic Discussion items
<elfy> #info 14/300 iso tests done in last 30 days
<Unit193> Ah, ouch...
<Unit193> #subtopic Discuss replacing gnome-calculator with galculator
<pleia2> I haven't done any, will remedy this (particularly as I prep for the QA event in SF next month)
<Unit193> Anyone there for this one?
<Unit193> I've done two upgrade tests, that's it.
<elfy> I thought that that calc issue was going away and so no need to do anything 
<elfy> though I possibly misunderstood 
<pleia2> I've not kept up with it at all
<Unit193> They may patch it so it doesn't have CSD anymore, which would be the biggest reason to get rid of it.
<elfy> can't even remember what csd is ... 
<Unit193> One of the two annoying new GNOME features, can't remember either which though.  Alright, so moving on it is...
<elfy> yep
<Unit193> #subtopic Alpha2 or ignore and just work with Beta's and Final?
<elfy> so - given that systemd is NOT default 
<pleia2> seemed to work fine to ignore them last cycle
<elfy> the only reason that we were possibly going to do A2 was that
 * pleia2 nods
<elfy> ochosi seems to like the idea of doing it
<elfy> so does slickymaster 
<elfy> I don't - lot of work for little gain - and ^^ for the main reason to not
<elfy> though ochosi did point to gtk3 updates landed
<Unit193> Yes, yes they did.  Some things seem a little..off.
<elfy> but we've got a week to make a decision 
<Unit193> Indeed.  I just defer to you on it.
<knome> huh
<knome> hello
<Unit193> knome: Hello!
<pleia2> hey knome
<knome> fwiw, i'm still sick, so mostly watching
<elfy> we'd need to have a decision 19th re A2
<elfy> knome: hi and :(
<Unit193> elfy: Otherwise, we have had a few xfce packages land, and are about to have a few more.
<Unit193> Anything else under this subtopic?
<elfy> Unit193: properly land?
<Unit193> elfy: Yes.
<elfy> k
<knome> from what i've seen, probably better skip a2
<knome> we can probably use the time and effort better testing on something specific
<elfy> frankly - it might be good to try and get things from staging into default - then I can see a reason
<knome> can people confirm they'll have time to do that?
<elfy> that said - it might be good to do A2 - so that when there isn't sufficient testing then everyone will know I was serious about blocking release
<Unit193> knome: Two systems I use are already on vivid, so it's a lot easier to test specifics than installs.
<elfy> knome: I guess that's down to ochosi and bluesabre mostly 
<knome> elfy, i agree people need to take the possibility of blocking seriously, but otoh, i don't think that's the right way to go with it
<knome> elfy, want to take an action item before next week to ask dev people if they want to do the a2 release, or shall i?
<elfy> I'm happy to do that
<knome> cheers
<knome> #elfy to talk with dev people about releasing/not releasing a2
<Unit193> Need #action
<knome> lol
<knome> brain not working
<knome> #action elfy to talk with dev people about releasing/not releasing a2
<meetingology> ACTION: elfy to talk with dev people about releasing/not releasing a2
<Unit193> #subtopic We have stickers for QA contributors! Next step?
<Unit193> See: http://pad.ubuntu.com/QAIncentive
<Unit193> pleia2: ^
<pleia2> right-o
<pleia2> so now that I have a pile of these, we should do the thing
<knome> i would say set it up for next milestone we're releasing
<knome> or, simply target beta 1
<elfy> target B1
<knome> so we have enough time to inform people
<pleia2> will it only be testers for B1, or anyone who has tested up to and including B1?
<elfy> pleia2: well - off the top of my head
<elfy> and if we DO say that -team are excluded
<elfy> then we are talking about PaulW2U 
<elfy> for the cycle up to now 
<knome> otoh... it's not work in vain
<elfy> we really need to finalise who is counted 
<pleia2> well, the point is to encourage other folks, so it won't just be Paul :)
<knome> we can take those into account
<knome> and if paul doesn't win, also send him the sticker the first time
<knome> done
<elfy> we can do that 
<pleia2> we should have several "winners"
<pleia2> I have 20 of these things
<knome> lol
<pleia2> at least 5 for the cycle I'd say
<elfy> but we need to once it's going have finite times 
<knome> pleia2, the point is to do that for each milestone
<pleia2> so 3 for each then
<knome> pleia2, so a1, a2, b1, b2, final are possible per cycle
<elfy> eg - after b1 - the next is for the next month - and on
<knome> oh, month
<pleia2> a1 is already gone
<knome> i thought it was release, nvm :)
<knome> pleia2, i'll tell you a secret... there will be another release cycle
<pleia2> I'm playing this cycle by cycle, not so far in the future
<pleia2> would be nice to give a sticker set to our QA lead and project lead too, off-band ;)
<elfy> knome: there was - monthly, then milestones, then release - rinse repeat
<knome> right, that works
<knome> i was just misremembering
<knome> and my head is full of snot
<pleia2> ew
<knome> i'm sorry
<knome> dead brain cells then if that's better
<elfy> and the same for packages 
<knome> what if we simply made b1 the first target
<knome> and see how it goes
<elfy> wfm
<ochosi> o/
<knome> i can still do those digital certificates
 * ochosi reads backlog...
<knome> and the custom wallpaper for the release winner(s)
<elfy> but we do need to do it monthly afterwards imo
<pleia2> I'll send along a hand-written thank you as well
<knome> pleia2, ++
<elfy> milestones being seperately counted within the month
<knome> elfy, that works for me, as long as we just get it started :)
<elfy> yea ... 
<pleia2> elfy: can you add a proposed schedule to the etherpad?
<knome> or a new google cal :)
<elfy> #action elfy Add proposed schedule to incentive pad
<meetingology> ACTION: elfy Add proposed schedule to incentive pad
<elfy> pleia2: yea - but not today :)
<elfy> hi ochosi 
<elfy> I think XPL and QA Lead should get t-shirt not stickers :p
<ochosi> huhu
<pleia2> elfy: thanks, no rush :) once we have some dates, we can decide how many "winners" each one and prep the blog post
<ochosi> ok, caught up nw
<pleia2> I only have one t-shirt and it's mine :D
<pleia2> we can get more, but have to buy them and shipping
<knome> i have moolah
<elfy> lol 
<elfy> really not serious :)
<pleia2> it's a nice t-shirt though, we should link it to our site now that I've confirmed
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> sounds good
<pleia2> fits nice, feels nice
<knome> tbh, sending a t-shirt for everybody who sticked along for a long enough time (tm) should get one
<knome> *would be fair
<ochosi> poor knome can't write/think anymore
<knome> i don't need one if people think i just want one free myself
<knome> :P
<ochosi> get well again soon! :)
<elfy> :)
<knome> trying to..
<ochosi> yeah, actually it would be a nice gesture
<ochosi> can we ask for donations for something like that?
 * ochosi always brings up the uncomfortable donations topic
<knome> lol
<knome> that's ok
<knome> but seriously, we have that community fund
<ochosi> yeah, but it's tiny
<knome> it's been quite long and nothing has happened with that so far
<knome> it's enough to send everyone a t-shirt
<pleia2> no objections from me
<knome> well tbe i'll have to double-check that, but i'm pretty sure it's ok
<ochosi> yeah, but after that it's over
<ochosi> but yeah, in general i'm +1 on the idea
<knome> my point is that we haven't used it so far either
<knome> and it's a long time since
<knome> great, meetinglogy..
<knome> +o
<pleia2> I'll use Canonical Community funding for sticker shipments, which reminds me - Kubuntu folks use that funding *a lot* for conferences, so if any of us want to attend something for Xubuntu, we should keep that in mind
<elfy> lol
<knome> pleia2, get everyone to one conf
<Unit193> #chair knome
<meetingology> Current chairs: Unit193 knome
<pleia2> knome: that might be too much
<Unit193> knome: Only lost a little log, then.  Nice.
<pleia2> unless some of us are going anyway
<knome> pleia2, like you? ;)
<pleia2> usually me
<knome> bluesabre is teh problem case
<ochosi> pleia2: had i known, i had gone to fosdem...
<pleia2> ochosi: they sound out talk acceptences quite late, so I didn't know until I mentioned it here-ish :\
<knome> anyway
<pleia2> anyway, that's a tangent
<pleia2> sounds like we have a plan for stickers
<knome> ochosi, how's the xfce bountysource stuff going?
<Unit193> knome: Perhaps that should go in AOB?
<ochosi> quite good actually
<ochosi> lemme quickly check the funds
<knome> Unit193, maybe.
<knome> ochosi, i was asking because i was wondering if that was a realistic target for our "own" money
<ochosi> about 1000$ for the team
<ochosi> and 350$ on bugs
<ochosi> so the 1000$ can be spent by the team for various causes, incl conferences or hackatons i think
<ochosi> or as regular bug bounties
<ochosi> the 350$ are bound to specific bugs
<pleia2> nice
<ochosi> so from my pov that was a success
<knome> good
<ochosi> it should be managed more actively though
<ochosi> but that's a different story
<knome> yep
<Unit193> #topic Announcements
<ochosi> #info More gtk3.14 theming fixes are about to come to greybird and numix in the near future
<ochosi> that's about it from my side
<ochosi> the rest is playing catch-up with what happened or didn't over the holidays
<Unit193> The Calendar isn't loading properly for me, but there's a CC catch up coming up, IIRC.
<elfy> 15th
<knome> yup, 15th
<knome> 17utc
<Unit193> #info Community council catch-up is on the 15th, at 17utc.
<Unit193> Cool, any more?
<pleia2> I'm all done
<knome> i'm all done as well .P
<elfy> same
<Unit193> So next up to schedule next meeting: Slickymaster!
<Unit193> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jan  5 22:44:46 2015 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2015/xubuntu-devel.2015-01-05-22.00.moin.txt
<elfy> thanks Unit193 
<elfy> night all
<knome> aaand we have a winner! ;)
<ochosi> i'm heading to bed too
<ochosi> night all!
<knome> nighty
<pleia2> night folks
<ochosi> will be around again on the 7th, tomorrow is a public holiday \o/
<ochosi> knome: and remember to get well again!
<knome> heh
<knome> i will
 * knome snots and coughs for the effect
<Unit193> Most sites when you login it redirects you to the page you were on, the Ubuntu wiki redirects you to the homepage...
<pleia2> my solution is to never log out
<Unit193> The other computer never logs out, this one uses non-persistent sessions. :P
<Unit193> knome: For not talking much, you sure did a lot. ;)
<knome> Unit193, right?
<knome> maybe it's fair to compare that to how much i usually talk .P
#xubuntu-devel 2015-01-06
<jjfrv8> brainwash, 3.17 seems to have fixed the problem. Latest 3.19 works too :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: You there yet? :(
<Unit193> Heh, never tried mainline, my "alternate" kernel of choice was liquorix (http://liquorix.net/)
<Noskcaj> Probably doesn't affect anything for us, but the gnome 3.14 desktop stack got uploaded overnight
<Unit193> Yeah, saw some of that, hope it doesn't as well. :/
<Unit193> Oh goodness me...
<Unit193> elfy: file-roller a little derpy for you?
<slickymasterWork> knome or pleia2, can either of you please disclose in the team media channels -> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-January/010516.html
<knome> slickymasterWork, tweeted
<slickymasterWork> thanks knome 
<slickymasterWork> it's up to pleia2 to post it on g+ now
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing/WebPresence
<knome> or ochosi
<slickymasterWork> hey, didn't knew that one knome 
<knome> now you do :)
<Unit193> Hard to remember/find all the secret pages sometimes, we need a secret wikipage listing all the secret wikipages, including itself of course. :P
<knome> heh
<knome> that's not secret
<knome> it's openable with two clicks from any xubuntu wiki page
<elfy> Unit193: derpy?
<Unit193> CSD, title bar half there, weird buttons, etc.
<knome> derp-y
<knome> :P
<elfy> and csd is?
<elfy> you might remember that less than24 hours ago it meant nothing to me ;)
<knome> communist system dialog
<elfy> not like that then no
<knome> :P
<elfy> http://i.imgur.com/YQRMPIc.png
<elfy> looks like that here 
<ochosi> yup, i think i already mentioned that file-roller is only checking for unity
<ochosi> at least that
<ochosi> 's what i remember
<Unit193> Ah, only half derpy, mine is worse.
<ochosi> the combination of menubar and CSD is really weird though
<ochosi> elfy: could you submit a bugreport "file-roller in xubuntu has CSD"?
<Unit193> elfy: http://i.imgur.com/ReTp3ga.png
<ochosi> then add it to the bugs-bp and then i can go bug people in u-devel
<ochosi> Unit193: sucky CSD support in your theme
<elfy> if I remember - lunch time - which is running out
<elfy> and where - LP ?
<Unit193> Bleh... Yeah.
 * Unit193 wonders if upgrading to vivid was a bad idea..
<knome> Unit193, awesome idea.
<knome> upgrade wo w.
<knome> to
<Unit193> Hm?
<knome> i'm just toying with you :P
<elfy> sound indicator appears to have issues here too 
<Unit193> Yep, that it has.
<elfy> Unit193: recently for you?
<Unit193> Well, the theme for all indicators rather.  What issue do you have?
<elfy> last week (ish)
<elfy> empty 'square' and nothing there properly if clicked on 
<ochosi> rly?
<ochosi> odd
<ochosi> the volume scale doesn't work well
<ochosi> that's what i noticed and forwarded
<ochosi> the rest seemed okayish
<elfy> possibly like it was ~14.04 time
<elfy> http://i.imgur.com/sIBNe1c.png
<elfy> sound ind is between date and message one
<elfy> bbl - back off out now
<ochosi> odd
<bluesabre> Hoping to get my internet set up today..
<bluesabre> Until then, still not around.
<bluesabre> And, sorry to have missed the meeting yesterday. :(
<ochosi> oh hey bluesabre 
<ochosi> good luck with your internet and new flat and all!
<ochosi>  :)
<brainwash> jjfrv8: I've updated the bug report. So, the next step would be to test the RC releases of 3.17 (bisect) and find the exact commit which fixed your issue. If we manage to do this, then we could try to backport the fix via SRU request.. However, I'm not sure if it's worth to go through all these steps.
<brainwash> 3.18 is almost ready for vivid and utopic is just a short term release anyway
<jjfrv8> brainwash, imho it doesn't seem worth it to try to fix utopic either. I'd be willing to go through the exercise if somebody decides otherwise
<jjfrv8> but I'd rather focus on testing vivid
<jjfrv8> I will reinstall with today's daily and test 3.18, just to be sure that one works as well.
<elfy> well that's awesome then - bug in ppa-purge ... say n and it will say it's going to abort - then just carries on :)
<slickymasterWork> hey elfy, can you do me a favor?
<elfy> if possible slickymasterWork 
<slickymasterWork> can you confirm me if you received https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-January/010516.html in your email
<elfy> I know I did 
<knome> if it makes a difference, i did
<slickymasterWork> I didn't :P
<elfy> checking my mail - got it at 5th Jan 
<slickymasterWork> and I was finding it odd
<knome> slickymasterWork, i think you can set a bit to not receive your own mails
<elfy> you can for sure do that
<elfy> ~I think ... 
<knome> definitely can
<slickymasterWork> lol knome,  you were the one who set it up (my ML settings)
<knome> i changed one setting
<knome> what was that again
<knome> :P
<elfy> http://pastebin.com/P0b7AX7L
<slickymasterWork> it was to disable the digest mode knome, iirc
<knome> right
<elfy> am I going mad - did I say the wrong thing at line 37 
<knome> that doesn't affect metoo
<knome> elfy, nope
<elfy> lovely :)
<slickymasterWork> knome: "Receive your own posts to the list?" -> Yes
<elfy> best report that I guess
<slickymasterWork> what gives?!
<knome> slickymasterWork, i've set that as not and back to yes
<knome> let's see what gives
<slickymasterWork> haha
<elfy> slickymasterWork: sometimes I have found that messages I have sent to m/l's get flagged as spam 
 * slickymasterWork blames the ML admin
<knome> slickymasterWork, i mean NOW
 * slickymasterWork hides right away
<knome> slickymasterWork, i did those in 5 seconds P
<knome> not before
<knome> silly slickymasterWork 
<slickymasterWork> poor me :(
 * slickymasterWork won't mess with the ML much more as he's afraid of possible repercussions
<slickymasterWork> ML admin
<knome> hah
<elfy> new kernel is on it's way 
<elfy> ochosi: done - bug 1408046
<ubottu> bug 1408046 in file-roller (Ubuntu) "file-roller in xubuntu has CSD" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1408046
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, ping
<elfy> http://www.everydaylinuxuser.com/2015/01/an-everyday-linux-user-review-of.html
<elfy> another satisfied blog author
<ochosi> thanks elfy 
<elfy> got a response from seb already ... take it upstream 
<ochosi> oh meh
<ochosi> i see
<ochosi> i thought that maybe they only patched it in ubuntu for unity
<ochosi> ok, just checked and they only brought back the menubar with a patch
<elfy> I guess I'm lucky with these visual things - no idea what anyone else thinks is normal - so they mostly look right to me 
<elfy> it's only when I get something like qt apps all 1990's I might say something ... 
<ochosi> yeah, i mean file-roller could be worse
<ochosi> but it could also be better...
<elfy> yea - I see that *now* :D
<ochosi> right :)
<ochosi> slickymaster: g+'d your call for translations
<elfy> ochosi: you got 5? 
<slickymaster> just saw it ochosi 
<slickymaster> thanks for that
<ochosi> elfy: sure, what's up?
<ochosi> slickymaster: np, sry i didn't get to it earlier
<elfy> re A2 and the meeting yesterday - thought occurred to me at the time - what's the chances of getting some of the stuff currently in staging actually live before that? 
<elfy> bluesabre: this also ^^
<elfy> if not then - by Beta 1
<ochosi> that depends on bluesabre mostly i guess
<ochosi> anything you're thinking of specifically?
<elfy> thought so :)
<ochosi> i guess the light-locker1.5.1 release will have to be discussed with some ubuntu devs
<ochosi> cause it's not in our packagest afaik
<ochosi> packageset
<elfy> well - mousepad/parole for a start
<ochosi> right, that should be doable i suppose
<ochosi> but depends on whether bluesabre gets his internet back before a2
<elfy> yea - saw all that :)
<elfy> ftr I am still really dubious about the gain from doing A2 as it stands ;)
<ochosi> mhm, i understand
<ochosi> did bluesabre say anything re: a2?
<elfy> didn't see anything overnight 
<ochosi> right
<bluesabre> Still haven't caught up
<ochosi> oh wow
<ochosi> speak of the devil
<elfy> hi bluesabre :)
<bluesabre> What do you want to know?
<elfy> not got time for all of that ... 
 * ochosi thinks of really difficult questions...
<elfy> ha ha ha 
<ochosi> bluesabre: where do unicorns come from?
<elfy> bluesabre: basically I am minded not to do A2
<bluesabre> :-)
<elfy> we were originally doing it IF systemd was default
<bluesabre> Elfy, is agree at this point.
<elfy> it's not atm - but can be used
<ochosi> yeah, which still isn't the case
<bluesabre> I'd
<knome> i guess the easiest of the harder questions is:
<elfy> then I thought that if we could get stuff from staging into real in time there might be a case for running A2
<knome> do the other changes bring so much new that they warrant an A2?
<knome> and that, will they make it early enough to repositories
<knome> (and are they tested/ready enough to go there)
<knome> so really, three questions...
<ochosi> i'm mostly interested in the new gtk3 and how it breaks theming tbh
<ochosi> not sure parole and mousepad are critical enough to warrant a2
<ochosi> light-locker1.5.1 + patched xfpm could be okayish for that
<elfy> well without knowing how many people are using the ppa - not way to tell I guess
<elfy> or rather I think there is - but PPA 'owner' needs to do it 
<bluesabre> I think Unit193 can
<ochosi> i think there are no reliable PPA statistics
<ochosi> but some guesswork can be done
<ochosi> Unit193: wanna look into how many are using the various xubuntu PPAs?
<elfy> jfi-ubuntu-ppastats-vivid.list was something that I looked at quickyl
<ochosi> Unit193: pretty pleeeeease! :)
<elfy> https://launchpad.net/~jfi/+archive/ubuntu/ppastats
<ochosi> bluesabre: which do you prefer: argue with ubuntu-devs that ll1.5.1 can be shipped (despite the odd version number) or convince cavalier that we should release 1.6 asap (despite the fact that 1.5.1 isn't exactly widely tested)?
<bluesabre> ochosi, I can upload once I have internet
<ochosi> oh, ll is in our packageset after all?
<bluesabre> I think it is, or was, maybe
<ochosi> ok
<knome> ochosi, what about simply testing it in A2 and then make cavalier release 1.6 for release?)
<ochosi> in that case, let's wait till the staging build is fixed and at least we ourselves have tested it
<knome> sounds like a good idea
<ochosi> knome: i was asking on the premise that bluesabre can't upload ll himself
<bluesabre> Gotta run for now, I have quassel on my phone, so ping me.
<ochosi> okeydokey, hf bluesabre and good luck with that internet :)
<bluesabre> Hope to be back later today
<bluesabre> Thanks
<ochosi> i'll probably head to bed in the next 10
<elfy> cya bluesabre 
<elfy> and I'm off now - night all 
<ochosi> night elfy 
<knome> nighty elfy 
<knome> and ochosi since you're going
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> night all!
<Unit193> ochosi: http://paste.openstack.org/show/y0Qv63BXgssHcRA4kMfo - http://paste.openstack.org/show/XoAiw7m2xeqkAFQ4XVcv/
<elfy> thanks Unit193 
<elfy> going now lol 
<Unit193> Sure, though I wouldn't bet my life on those numbers. :P
<knome> light-locker doesn't appear in vivid/i386?
<bluesabre> Looks like no internet until Thursday
<Unit193> bluesabre: Did you get the ping about the panel?
<bluesabre> Unit193 for the package?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Yeah, I got xfce4-panel ready to go, looks like indicator got uploaded.
<bluesabre> K. I can upload towards the end of the week. :-)
#xubuntu-devel 2015-01-07
<Noskcaj> Unit193, I packaged all but 2 of the christmas translation releases, a few just had bzr issues so they weren't sponsored
<Noskcaj> and my thunar branch had a bad changelog, which is now fixed
<Unit193> Debian #774747
<ubottu> Debian bug 774747 in mousepad ""Match case" and "Replace all" settings are mistakenly checked by default due to uninitialized variables" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/774747
<ochosi> humm, catfish's sidebar still isn't ideal with greybird :/
<ochosi> also doesn't work too well with numix, adwaita is ok
<ochosi> (in vivid, ofc)
<ochosi> meh, upower0.99 seems to be a lot slower in recognizing when my laptop gets plugged in
<ochosi> or at least: xfpm + upower0.99
<Unit193> ochosi: Oh, btw.  Can/should I be using xfce-4.12 PPA almost how I'm using my own xfce one?  "Backporting" the vivid releases to utopic.
<ochosi> yeah, that'd be nice
<ochosi> at least that way we're offering a sane way for folks who are using utopic to get fixes without waiting for SRUs that might not come
<ochosi> doing that for trusty as well would be good
<ochosi> despite the chances of SRUs happening there being higher
<Unit193> Not sticking git snapshots in though.
<Unit193> Though I have to say, imgur support is handy dandy!
<ochosi> yup, exactly, only actual releases
<ochosi> and yeah, hope we get that in a stable release soonish
<ochosi> i like it a lot too
<ochosi> bbl
<brainwash> ochosi: I've tested it now. if light-locker is set to auto lock when the screen saver activates, then the power manager won't be able to suspend/hibernate the system after inactivity
<brainwash> because we already switched to vt8
<brainwash> bug 1319598
<ubottu> bug 1319598 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "Power manager no longer suspends 'power manager not authorised'" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1319598
<ochosi> what about late locking?
<brainwash> mark as invalid and tell people to configure light-locker to auto lock when the screen saver deactivates?
<brainwash> yes, late locking works fine
<ochosi> right, tell them to do that then
<ochosi> the other variant can't work
<brainwash> ok, strangely no one has find that out yet
<brainwash> another workaround mentioned in the comment section is to edit the upower policy for suspend as inactive user
<brainwash> so, there is nothing to fix in our packages
<ochosi> not really
<brainwash> :)
<ochosi> only thing we could do is make that option insensitive in xfpm
<brainwash> or make late locking the default pick?
<brainwash> maybe even hide the normal/instant lock mode?
<brainwash> I don't know if there are any drawbacks with late looking
<ochosi> not sure either tbh
<ochosi> so much depends on hardware with vt switching...
<ochosi> hw+drivers
<brainwash> and policies
<ochosi> yeah, that too
<brainwash> btw while testing this stuff I was reminded of bug 1013945
<ubottu> bug 1013945 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "Let user select a time of less than 15 mins idle before going to sleep" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1013945
<brainwash> had to wait 15 minutes :D
<ochosi> only because you didn't want to do it via xfconf i suppose
<ochosi> iirc you can set a lower timeout there
<brainwash> heh, but it would make sense to allow lower values
<brainwash> via GUI
<brainwash> for mobile devices
<brainwash> oh wait, I'm confused.. it's actually fixed?
<brainwash> I tested it in vivid which should ship with version 1.4
<ochosi> xfce doesn't play well on mobile devices
<ochosi> at least if we have the same understanding of mobile being something !desktop && !laptop
<brainwash> laptop
<brainwash> it's a desktop pc actually which I'm using to test, so maybe the battery tab in xfpm allows lower values
<brainwash> maybe I'll ask hjudt about this
<ochosi> elfy: can you confirm that e.g. in transmission the menubar's menuitems are too wide in vivid? (padding on the left, about 16px) http://i.imgur.com/XsCjkTk.png (screenshot is with adwaita, not greybird, but the problem is the same)
<ochosi> (and anyone else testing vivid ^)
<elfy> can confirm
<ochosi> ok ty
<ochosi> elfy: do you also see this: whiskermenu's button in the panel doesn't look "pressed" anymore when the menu is open in vivid
<ochosi> bbl
<elfy> ochosi: can confirm that - but then I'd not ever noticed it looking pressed before either
<elfy> booted 14.04 - doesn't appear to do that there either
<ochosi> elfy: weird, ok, then i'll see whether i'll report a bug
<Noskcaj> ochosi, Might be fixed upstream already, we're behind by two point releases
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> meh, why's that?
<Noskcaj> no one sponsors me
<ochosi> meh :/
<ochosi> why's that?
<Noskcaj> christmas break
<Noskcaj> and half of xfce's stuff breaks bzr's tarball import
<Noskcaj> Unit193, Did you end up taking any of the new xfce releases? I've got to redo a few of mine as debdiffs
<Noskcaj> When does bluesabre get back?
<ochosi> he said maybe thursday
<ochosi> depends on when his interwebs get set up
<Noskcaj> ok, i need him to sponsor a bunch of stuff that day then, since i'm away with no internet from the 10th to the 24th
<ochosi> right, keeping my fingers crossed that it'll work out then
<ochosi> and enjoy (what i presume is) your time off!
<elfy> evening ochosi :)
<ochosi> hey elfy 
<brainwash> ochosi: interesting new commit http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xdg/xdg-utils/commit/?id=0f06aadc8696f3e9234687bbc93b50a3f724b822
<elfy> ochosi: when you say 'pressed' what do you actually mean? 
<Unit193> Noskcaj: Yeah, at least the panel.
<ochosi> brainwash: right, i sent that patch. rex sucks at attribution
<brainwash> heh :D
<ochosi> elfy: well try any other button in the panel (indicators etc), they have a special state in which they are drawn "pressed down" to give you the feedback that they're clickable
<Noskcaj> Unit193, Panel and indicator-plugin had source conflicts in bzr. Do you want to do both of those? I've got everything except cpufreq-plugin done
<ochosi> brainwash: and he takes his time. took him only 8 months to merge that 4-liner (after having read the code almost instantaneously)
<ochosi> but i won't complain, at least it's merged...
<Noskcaj> Unit193, Also, any progress on abiword?
<ochosi> elfy: btw, i updated the fix for shaded windows and intelligent hiding a few minutes ago, should work and get merged this time ;)
<Unit193> Noskcaj: What do you mean?
<ochosi> oh crap. there he goes.
<elfy> ha ha 
<Noskcaj> Unit193, Were you going to merge/sync it?
<elfy> ochosi: unless you happen to click hexchat in the panel - that just ends up unusable :D
<Unit193> No.
<Noskcaj> i'll merge the version in unstable today then
<elfy> ochosi: but - yes can see what you mean now and I definitely confirm I'm not seeing that with whisker now - or indeed ever
<brainwash> ochosi: it's something. I messed around a bit with xdg-screensaver to solve the "parole resets screen saver timeout to 600" bug, but I'll have to review it again
<Unit193> Noskcaj: Sean was going to look at the one in experimental, much more fun than unstable...
<Noskcaj> ok, i'll wait till i can talk to him about it then
<ochosi> elfy: btw, i updated the fix for shaded windows and intelligent hiding a few minutes ago, should work and get merged this time ;) (sorry for reposting, but you went offline when i said that)
<ochosi> brainwash: ah nice
<ochosi> i hope ll1.5.1 lands soon, so we can fix xdg-screensaver to work with ll
<elfy> ochosi: woohoo - as soon as I see it I will test that :)
<Noskcaj> If anyone wants to test gtk 3.15's current affects on our themes, ppa:gnome3-team/gnome3-staging now has most of the gnome libs (including gtk) at 3.15.3
<ochosi> Noskcaj: i seriously hope 3.16 isn't landing this cycle
<ochosi> no more updating themes
<Noskcaj> ochosi, No, the theme breaking is too much
<Unit193> Breaking.
<ochosi> and some stuff is already broken with our themes and i'm afraid nobody will fix it cause it doesn't affect unity
<Noskcaj> No one has fixed half of the stuff affecting unity yet (headerbar patches, gnome-user-share being from 2011)
<ochosi> for 3.14 you mean?
<Noskcaj> yes
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> that's why i don't even wanna try 3.15 ;)
<Noskcaj> Completely unrelated, should we turn on weather-plugin's upower support?
<Unit193> What does it add?
<elfy> you can get your local temperature down to 0K I think
<Noskcaj> from configure.ac "upower for adapting update interval to power state"
<brainwash> I guess no.. unless someone complains that the plugin is draining his battery
<Noskcaj> Could we add it to one of the ~xubuntu-dev PPAs?
<Noskcaj> It would be nice to have if we can confirm it work
<Noskcaj> *works
<elfy> pleia2: added proposed schedule to incentive pad
<pleia2> elfy: thank you :) I'll draft up a blog post at the bottom of the pad later (you keep giving me work!)
<elfy> ok - let me know and I'll give it a quick look before it's published
<pleia2> much appreciated
<elfy> ok - I'll see if I can find something else for you to do 
<elfy> or did you not mean that :D
<pleia2> make it stop /o\
<pleia2> hehe
<elfy> :)
 * Unit193 wonders if he should find something.
<knome> pleia2, feel free to ping me if/when you need help
<ochosi> knome: btw, how's the development-wall coming along?
<elfy> night all 
<knome> ochosi, what you saw is the last revision
<ochosi> woot? that's it?
<knome> but as i said, it's just some tweaking
<ochosi> :)
<knome> i'll do that once i'm better
<ochosi> so not the last, but the latest
<ochosi> phew
<knome> hah
<ochosi> Unit193: re: "train your unit", how about trying to go for upload rights to the package-set?
<Unit193> ochosi: I don't have many uploads.
<ochosi> that could be changed
<knome> yeaaaaah
<slickymaster> go for it Unit193 
<ochosi> just seeing how things are slowing down when bluesabre isn't around...
<knome> yes, nobody can disagree that having multiple (semi-)active uploaders would be a bad thing
<knome> Unit193, you know, as always, you have my full support...
<Unit193> knome: But good chances for review are great.
<knome> i didn't quite follow, but if you are running for the upload rights, great ;)
<ochosi> hehe, well played
<Unit193> Not right now, no.
<knome> Unit193, but tomorrow, yes?
<Noskcaj> Unit193, You'll probably get them before me, so please try
<Unit193> Noskcaj: You've got a lot more uploads, but yes I'll try by the end of this cycle or next cycle.
<Noskcaj> I also can't attend irc meetings, and have had a few bad uploads
<Noskcaj> great
<knome> Noskcaj, you have my support as well :)
<Noskcaj> :)
<Unit193> knome: Right, but getting support from sponsors is kind of ideal.
<knome> but of course
<Unit193> Hrm, our friendly neighborhood MOTU seems AFK for now.
#xubuntu-devel 2015-01-08
<slaveworx> hi people!
<slaveworx> I've been reading how to get involved in xubuntu
<slaveworx> and I think this is definitely the best place to get started
<slaveworx> I want to know more about how can I start
<holstein> qa testing is an easy place to start that can really help out http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
<holstein> there are developer meetings.. you could go and introduce yourself there, and likely volunteer for something
<holstein> what specifically are you interested in doing?
<slaveworx> holstein: I'm learning python at the moment, and I know some intermediate Ruby
<slaveworx> so I'm trying to get to participate in open-source projects to learn more and to help at the same time
<slaveworx> So, anything related to app developing or anything related would be really great
<holstein> you can also choose, for example, an upstream appliation written in python, and go to that community and assist, which would trickle into downstream xubuntu, and others
<slaveworx> Hum, and where can I find + info on that?
<holstein> slaveworx: well, that will depend on the project
<slaveworx> I'll search about it ! :)
<slaveworx> thank you for your help holstein!
<knome> hello slaveworx and welcome
<knome> if you want to get involved with development/writing code, bluesabre and ochosi are the right people to talk to
<slaveworx> hi knome!
<slaveworx> hum, that sounds good
<slaveworx> I'll talk to them!
<slaveworx> thank you for the tip knome
<knome> no problem, and if you have any other questions, just ask
<slaveworx> thank you!
<Unit193> ochosi: So anything else "interesting" for me to do?
<ochosi> Unit193: sorry, still too distracted on other fronts, but i'll get to you ;)
<knome> Unit193, put AgAu on a leash? :P
<Unit193> knome: Thought about it.
<knome> silly Unit193 
<ochosi> Noskcaj: looks like your whisker-upgrade already landed
<ochosi> and the button looks pressed now
<ochosi> elfy: ^
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: Ping me the things that you need me to sponsor. When my internet gets activated, I'll take care of it.
<ochosi> Unit193: wanna try to fix the xfpm build in the staging ppa?
<ochosi> and hey bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey ochosi, and congrats, your nick is in my phone's autocorrect
<ochosi> huhu, cool
<ochosi> whyever that is :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: we have some annoying gtk3.14 issues, parts of it are apps that are at fault
<bluesabre> Unit193, might require you to bump the +git version, or go back to versioning upower
<bluesabre> ochosi, can you make a list with the Dev blueprint... Along with gtk3.14
<ochosi> yeah, that might get too messy though...
<ochosi> i might create some sort of other list for it
<ochosi> maybe trello
<bluesabre> OK. Do that :-)
<bluesabre> I meant to get that set up before my absence
<Unit193> bluesabre: Ah, didn't look much, but kind of looked like some weird autocrap.  I'll ping you tomorrow with some things if you're still around though.  And yeah, should/will move the xfpm pkging to -dev so we can both push.
<bluesabre> Unit193, cool
<ochosi> bluesabre: wrote down some of my thoughts/findings on trello
<ochosi> that should help to fix some issues
<ochosi> bluesabre: btw, olivier really added a patch to xfce4-settings to sync the xfwm4 button layout with gtk3's CSD
<ochosi> elfy: added you to the board as well, so in case you see gtk3.14 issues that i missed or anything, you can note them there
<bluesabre> ochosi, awesome... I was going to do that at some point too
<ochosi> we just need a release i guess
<elfy> ochosi: thanks
<elfy> and button does in fact look pressed now too ;)
<elfy> still no sound indicator thought
<elfy> oh
<elfy> mmm - so clicking on the empty space I get the menu - but it's not clickable at all
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu/vivid/xfce4-taskmanager/1.1.0/+merge/245535 https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu/vivid/thunar/1.6.4/+merge/245533 https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu/vivid/xfce4-panel/4.11.2/+merge/245531
<Noskcaj> Please upload ignoring bzr's issues with xfce tarballs
 * Unit193 sighs.
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Also, UDD was having a pristine-tar issue with some of your packages and some xfce ones, if you have time to look into why, that would be great
<ochosi> brainwash: we'll see how long it takes rex to review your patch
<ochosi> but we can also give it some testing in xubuntu i guess
<brainwash> ochosi: the packaging needs some attention, I think the xdg-utils package still includes an upstream patch which has been already applied to the code
<brainwash> ochosi: also ali12341's ntp patch for gnome-system-tools
<ochosi> yeah, i already told seb128 we should replace that with the upstream version
<ochosi> i'm not aware of that patch
<ochosi> to gnome-system-tools i mean
<brainwash> bug 1270090
<ubottu> bug 1270090 in gnome-system-tools (Ubuntu) "time-admin can not install ntp" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1270090
<brainwash> not our package, but xubuntu is the only distro which still uses this package (I think)
<ochosi> right, i guess we need to ping around for that to get reviewed then
<ochosi> and we might need a merge-request instead of a debdiff
<ochosi> target will likely become vivid, tag says utopic and trusty
<brainwash> it could be SRU'd back to trusty at least
<Unit193> !info mate-system-tools
<ubottu> Package mate-system-tools does not exist in utopic
<Unit193> !info mate-system-tools vivid
<ubottu> mate-system-tools (source: mate-system-tools): Cross-platform configuration utilities for MATE. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.8.1+dfsg1-1ubuntu1 (vivid), package size 170 kB, installed size 712 kB
<brainwash> did they fix this?
<brainwash> this particular problem
<Noskcaj> brainwash, i don't think it fixes that issue, but i have a pending merge for g-s-t
<brainwash> from debian?
<brainwash> does some debian guy maintain this project?
<brainwash> I thought that it's completely dead now
<Noskcaj> brainwash, new maintainer in debian, took some of the ubuntu fixes and some new ones
<Noskcaj> He's one of lxde's maintainers
<ochosi> Noskcaj: so we should forward ali's patch to the debian maintainer?
<Noskcaj> Probably
#xubuntu-devel 2015-01-09
<bluesabre> Good evening everyone!
<knome> hello bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey knome
 * bluesabre finally has internet again
<knome> congrats
<knome> or...
<knome> !conga-rats-#ubuntustudio-devel
<ubottu> â« samba rumba bueno la conga cha cha cha
<knome> one of the less known awesome factoids
 * drc thinks the last thing he want in his mind is a image of anyone's devels doing a conga line :(
<Unit193> drc: You've seen pictures of most of us, picture it! :D
 * drc now understands the need for eye-bleach.
<bluesabre> haha
<Unit193> bluesabre: Anything else I need to ping you about? :P
<bluesabre> if you think of anything, drop me a line
 * Unit193 calls bluesabre.
 * bluesabre expects phone to start ringing
<Unit193> Pretty sure elfy mentioned getting stuff that we actually want from staging into the real archive, but not sure what's pending right now.
<bluesabre> probably lots
<bluesabre> need to get light-locker and xfpm uploaded
<bluesabre> Unit193: before I upload light-locker and xfpm, were there any concerns/complaints about the one in -staging?
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, welcome back
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: hey
<bluesabre> working on taskmanager now
<bluesabre> and.... uploaded
<Unit193> bluesabre: Not a clue.
<bluesabre> Thanks!
<bluesabre> I think :P
<Unit193> I think we can all agree, hamster is useless for us. :P
<bluesabre> <3 hamster
<Unit193> Nooo, xfce4-hamster-plugin, since you're going through the PPAs. :P
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> just trying to dent my backlog :)
<bluesabre> annoyingly, I feel the need to rebuild things before I try to upload, so it takes a while
<Unit193> Ah, good choice.
<Unit193> Anything fun in the backlog?
<bluesabre> not really, building light-locker now and watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5tkGmavfvQ
<Unit193> Ah, this will be the new settings then.
<Unit193> bluesabre: So what about the others anywho, while it's building mind giving your thoughts on it?
<bluesabre> yeah, light-locker and xfpm-settings
<bluesabre> as for the others, checking now
<Unit193> Oh sorry, meant in extras.  But anywho, branched xubuntu.vivid, so as soon as you upload I can push the removal of -settings.
<bluesabre> uploaded, but wait a bit longer for xubuntu.vivid dropping -settings
<bluesabre> want to fix it for the new release before losing upload rights :)
<Unit193> Figured you would, yep.  Do you lose rights quickly then?
<bluesabre> I think the packageset gets updated daily
<Unit193> bluesabre: Oh, do panel yet?  If not, http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-panel/commit/?id=e01b5aba18226b52227549f13f6f74dc447464d3 - http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-panel/commit/?id=1cfbcde589ebd4f59296202296d9e9e42252b8c1 review these maybe?
<bluesabre> already did panel (everything goes to -proposed it seems), but I can take a look at that tomorrow perhaps
<Unit193> OK.
<bluesabre> I think that's a good start for tonight... be back tomorrow
<bluesabre> g'night
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/extras/+packages and to the fate of those too, it's a thing to look at later.
<Unit193> G'night!
<ochosi> morning everyone
<ochosi> elfy: so, my (final) patch for shaded windows and intelligent hiding was pushed last night, so it' ll be in the next release and we can (if we want) carry it as a patch before that. but it's probably not crucial enough
<elfy> hi ochosi 
<elfy> and okey doke :)
<andrzejr> ochosi, if you need a release (when?) just let me know
<ochosi> andrzejr: thanks! well not sure a single commit warrants a release, but i'll keep that in mind
<ochosi> i hope there'll be more commits until 15.04 ;)
<andrzejr> when is the freeze?
<ochosi> in ~2months
<ochosi> so enough time
<ochosi> (bugfix releases could be sneaked in until late in the cycle)
<andrzejr> OK, thanks. gtg
<ochosi> sure, ttyl andrzejr 
<ochosi> elfy: i talked to some folks in ubuntu desktop about the menuitem problem we've been seeing with transmission
<ochosi> and we debugged it together, pointing to a bug (or: unwanted behavior) of gtk itself
<ochosi> now the final suggestion was to disable icons in menus altogether (since that also fixes the issue)
<elfy> that'll be one of those things that I don't see unless it's pointed out to me then ;)
<ochosi> hah, not sure tbh
<ochosi> you might end up seeing it
<elfy> looks fine to me :)
<ochosi> have you flipped the switch already?
<elfy> switch?
<elfy> just running here with defaults except staging and shimmer ppa's (possibly unit's)
<ochosi> oh right, you mean you won't notice the bug in transmission
<elfy> yea :)
<elfy> old eyes - need new glasses :p
<ochosi> so just so we get everything right, let's start from the top
<ochosi> open transmission -> see the padding on the left of the items in the menubar
<elfy> don't know what you mean by padding :)
<ochosi> click e.g. the "file" menu and see that the menubar-menuitem has weird padding
<ochosi> well an empty space on the left
<elfy> oh right 
<elfy> yea - I see that :)
<ochosi> ok, now open the settings editor
<ochosi> go to xsettings > Gtk
<ochosi> and there should be an entry "MenuImages"
<ochosi> untick that box
<elfy> yep - see the effect too
<ochosi> so transmission should be fixed
<elfy> yep - I can see that and agree with you :)
<ochosi> ok, now try to live with that setting for a day
<elfy> ok
<ochosi> we'll see, maybe we get the bug fixed upstream thoguh
<ochosi> then we can keep the icons
<elfy> so - while this looks ok with transmission with only text and no icons - others with both look odd?
<ochosi> just open a menu in e.g. thunar
<ochosi> right click in a folder
<ochosi> that gives you a good idea of the effect
<elfy> mmm
<elfy> I can see now that's going to annoy me :)
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> i was afraid it would annoy all of us
<ochosi> i'm actually pretty sure that nobody here wants to get rid of icons in menus
<ochosi> it's what upstream gtk wants though
<elfy> I don't actually really read those menus ... 
<elfy> mmm - how surprising 
<elfy> given the choice between odd padding and icons - I'd go for odd padding :)
<ochosi> thing is, it might take quite a bit of effort to get that bug fixed (and to find the culprit) upstream, so i wanna make sure it's worth the effort before i invest lots of time
<elfy> well from my pov
<elfy> I didn't even take any notice 
<elfy> I understand that your pov is you see when something is 1px wrong :)
<ochosi> that's 16px!!!
<ochosi> ;)
<elfy> ha ha ha 
<ochosi> but yeah, it's probably not worth this sort of workaround, we'll see
<elfy> and ... 
<elfy> I've ticked the box already 
<elfy> imagine someone using English settings that has English as a third language or something - they'll be using icons :)
<ochosi> elfy: wow, i think that setting is really a clear no-go. the power manager panel plugin looks like craaaaap
<ochosi> uargh, and the old appmenu in the panel is even worse
<elfy> my ind stuff in the panel's all fubar currently so can't tell 
<elfy> but I looked at the old appmenu ... 
<elfy> we can't do that to people :)
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> weird that your indicators are all messed up
<ochosi> maybe i should create a new user in vivid
<ochosi> i'm currently sharing my profile between a trusty and vivid install
<elfy> yep - expecting ssd this morning - will be doing some clean installs today, will check afterwards
<elfy> seemed to lose the sound ind after installing a new soundcard - though probably coincidence 
<ochosi> ok, created a new user just to be sure and everything is fine with the indicators
<ochosi> so i'm not sure what's up with your installation
<elfy> ochosi: well ... you know - fiddle about doesn't help :p 
<ochosi> yeah, probably not
<elfy> if it's still the same after clean install I'll be more concerned 
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> you saw the trello thingy i started for gtk3 issues, right?
<elfy> yep I did thanks
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> feel free to add stuff if you notice
<ochosi> or maybe i also forgot to list something we already discovered
<ochosi> (should've started this list earlier)
<elfy> I will - but given it's likely I'll not notice so much - but I'll keep an eye on it, subscribed to it 
<elfy> logs are on wiki now
<elfy> ochosi: so bluesabre thinks best not to bother with A2 as well it seems
<elfy> hi slickymasterWork - do you know that it's your turn to set up the next meeting ... 
<elfy> if you didn't - you do now :p
<slickymasterWork> yes I know, I was going to do it today
<elfy> :)
<slickymasterWork> elfy, 22:00 UTC is still a good hour for you?
<elfy> ok for me - but don't set time specifically for me :)
<elfy> next one I set I'm going to do on a day off during the day to suit bluesabre :)
<slickymasterWork> on one of yours?
<slickymasterWork> the day off I mean
<ochosi> elfy: right, in that case i'm fine with skipping a2
<slickymasterWork> hey ochosi 
<ochosi> hey slickymasterWork 
<elfy> slickymasterWork: yea 
<ochosi> how's it going?
<elfy> ochosi: ok
<slickymasterWork> doing fine. a bit tired though
<bluesabre> yes, let's skip it
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> morning bluesabre, and congrats on your internet ;)
<bluesabre> ty
<slickymasterWork> hey bluesabre 
<ochosi> first question
<ochosi> you mentioned an xfpm build last night
<ochosi> but the one in staging never built
<slickymasterWork> bluesabre, is 22:00 UTC alright with you for the next meeting?
<ochosi> so testing the light-locker patch wasn't possible
<ochosi> (i mean i've tested it with my local build, but others haven't)
<bluesabre> slickymasterWork: I'll do my best
<bluesabre> ochosi: well, its pushed to the archive now
<slickymasterWork> I can set another hour if you give a time frame
<bluesabre> slickymasterWork: I'll make it work
<slickymasterWork> that works for you
<slickymasterWork> ok, thanks
<ochosi> bluesabre: incl the patch?
<ochosi> i have 1.4.2-0ubuntu3, would that be it?
<bluesabre> should be
<bluesabre> xfce4-power-manager (1.4.2-0ubuntu3) vivid; urgency=medium
<bluesabre>   * debian/patches: Add ll_integration.patch, for light-locker
<bluesabre>     integration in xfce4-power-manager-settings
<bluesabre>  -- Sean Davis <smd.seandavis@gmail.com>  Thu, 08 Jan 2015 22:36:37 -0500
<bluesabre> light-locker (1.5.1-0ubuntu1) vivid; urgency=medium
<bluesabre>   * New development release.
<bluesabre>   * Merged packaging from debian unstable, remaining changes:
<bluesabre>     - debian/control: 
<bluesabre>       - Remove liblightdm-gobject-dev, not in Ubuntu and not required 
<bluesabre>         to build and operate
<bluesabre>       - Add light-locker-settings | xfce4-power-manager to Recommends
<bluesabre>       - Update standards version to 3.9.6
<bluesabre>     - debian/rules:
<bluesabre>       - Build with no-lock-on-suspend and late-locking support
<bluesabre>  -- Sean Davis <smd.seandavis@gmail.com>  Wed, 17 Dec 2014 06:30:58 -0500
<ochosi> right, then i have to report that it doesn't work
<bluesabre> :\
<ochosi> no security-tab in xfpm-settings
<ochosi> i have both of those packages in the referred-to versions
<slickymasterWork> damn wiki
<bluesabre> open dconf-editor and check if /apps/light-locker exists
<ochosi> it does
<ochosi> might also exist from before
<bluesabre> and open xfce4-power-manager-settings in terminal
<ochosi> i think i've tested 1.5.1 locally here
<ochosi> yeah, i've done that
<ochosi> just some warnings
<ochosi> (xfce4-power-manager-settings:11313): Gtk-CRITICAL **: IA__gtk_widget_set_sensitive: assertion 'GTK_IS_WIDGET (widget)' failed
<bluesabre> any output?
<ochosi> etc
<bluesabre> hm
 * bluesabre downloads a vivid daily iso
 * ochosi tries a new user profile
<ochosi> brb
<elfy> back in a while 
<ochosi> same with a blank user profile
<ochosi> maybe we need to add some debug statements for the light-locker integration
<bluesabre> there is
<bluesabre> +    } else {
<bluesabre> +        g_warning("Schema \"apps.light-locker\" not found. Not configuring Light Locker.");
<bluesabre> +        gtk_widget_hide (light_locker_tab);
<ochosi> ah ok
<ochosi> hm
<bluesabre> if the tab is to be hidden, you'll see a message
<ochosi> then i guess it's just the tab showing/hiding that doesn't work as presumed..?
<bluesabre> do you have a local install of xfpm?
<ochosi> since it's hidden
<ochosi> nope, i don't think so
<ochosi> and even if i had, it would be overridden by the package upgrade already
<ochosi> (or even: overwritten)
<bluesabre> not if its in /usr/local
<bluesabre> which xfce4-power-manager
<ochosi> yeah, but there's nothing
<ochosi> i'm running all from /usr/bin
<bluesabre> if there's no warning and no tab, theres an issue with the install
<ochosi> you mean with the packaging?
<ochosi> ;)
<bluesabre> nope :P
<bluesabre> I'll take a look later.... my internet seems slow for ISOs
<jhenke> hi folks, if any of you have some time to look at bug 1408979 (UI/theming)
<ubottu> bug 1408979 in xfce4-indicator-plugin (Ubuntu) "white background on xfce4-indicator-plugin with non-Greybird themes" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1408979
<ochosi> jhenke: numix is fixed or will be, the others aren't maintained/supported anymore
<ochosi> if you wanna submit a patch for that, i'll probably merge it
<ochosi> but i don't have time to maintain all those themes, so in the future only numix+greybird
<jhenke> okay, Numix is the important for me :)
<jhenke> thanks anyway for all you theming work
<ochosi> np
<ochosi> had to take that decision with gtk3.14 demanding many changes in the theme again
<ochosi> (introducing a new button state etc)
<ochosi> it's just sucking up too much time
<jhenke> I'll file another bug about Numix btw, in some applications like Synaptic the unchekced checkbox is not visible at all
<ochosi> in menus?
<ochosi> i'd say try with the shimmer-daily PPA first
<ochosi> then you'll see whether the bug is already fixed
<jhenke> I saw that both in the ubuntu installer and synpatic
<ali12341> ochosi: is orion unsupported then?
<ochosi> ali12341: yup
<ali12341> i will take over maintaining it then
<ochosi> nice
<ochosi> as long as it's maintained, i don't mind shipping it by default
<jhenke> afaik the themes are mostly a set of css files?
<ali12341> what needs to be done with it?
<ali12341> or: where are the bugs?
<ochosi> jhenke: mostly. i patched up greybird to mostly work with gtk3.14, but a rewrite in SASS might happen at some point so to be able to keep in sync with gtk's changes more easily
<ochosi> ali12341: i guess you'll have to look for them yourself (the bugs), you can use greybird's git log for orientation though. the themes are fairly similar, so porting greybird's patches to orion would be step 1
<jhenke> are your changes visible in the git commits on the githuib projects?
<ochosi> yeah
<jhenke> okay was thinking whether it is feasable to port your greybird work to Albatross as well
<ochosi> it is
<ochosi> it's just a mattter of time
<ochosi> ali12341: starting with this commit: https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/commit/6f8013cf293f2484b1896bfaaa0a052c02b1f83b
<jhenke> maybe it would work if there were one person for every theme
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> if you wanna maintain a theme, that'd be welcome
<ali12341> so where do i get gtk 3.14?
<ali12341> vivid?
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> or a PPA
<ochosi> but vivid is probably more reliable
<ochosi> as there might be ubuntu-specific patches
<ali12341> is it working at the moment if i get the ISO?
<ochosi> it should, i've been on vivid for a while
<jhenke> ali12341 most safe way is if you can use a vm
<ochosi> slaveworx: for qa you best talk to elfy
<ochosi> he's not around right now, but he'll come back#
<jhenke> ochosi let's say I consider adopting Albatross then once I get my new hardware, right now I cannot run xubuntu on any bare metal sadly :(
<ochosi> sure, let's say that ;)
<ochosi> you can adopt it anytime you want
<ochosi> as long as it's before UIF
<bluesabre> oh man, sure enough, no security tab in vivid
<jhenke> one thing: I assume it is normal that the sound indicator does not have any icon right now? it is just a blank square
<bluesabre> :\
<bluesabre> ochosi: i'll take a look at that this weekend I suppose
<bluesabre> judging by the warnings, I'd say something happened with patching the ui file
<bluesabre> and since the security frame is missing, it looks like it tried to load it, but died
<ochosi> jhenke: that's weird and a bug. elfy had the same problem, for some reason i don't
<ochosi> bluesabre: hmm :/
<ochosi> yeah, seems like the patch in the UI file failed somewhere
<ochosi> maybe just a few wrong glade tags?
<bluesabre> dunno... I'll have to experiment with it
<slaveworx> ochosi: thank you! I'l wait for him to come!
<bluesabre> the patch seems to apply fine, so I'll have to keep an eye on the build process to get an idea
<bluesabre> time to get ready for work, bbl
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> I bet I need to update the header file, probably not touched outside of maintainer mode
<jhenke> ochosi okay, is there a bug about it already?
<ochosi> jhenke: a bug about what?
<jhenke> sound-indicator/missing icon
<ochosi> ah right
<ochosi> maybe not
<ochosi> i haven't seen that bug personally
<ochosi> bluesabre: did you notice the sound indicator missing in your vivid daily?
<ochosi> sry, the icon of the sound-indicator
<jhenke> you can also see it in the screen shot I uploaded to bug 1408979
<ubottu> bug 1408979 in shimmer-themes (Ubuntu) "white background on xfce4-indicator-plugin with non-Greybird themes" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1408979
<ochosi> it's actually hard to see there, but yes
<ochosi> is this vivid daily?
<jhenke> yes
<ochosi> could you add the shimmer-daily PPA and see whether that helps? it also has the icons from git
<bluesabre> seems to work in mine, might have some ppas set up though
<bluesabre> ochosi: pretty sure I tracked down the issue, doing a test build now
<jhenke> shimmer ppa is installed, but still empty square
<bluesabre> for xfpm
<ochosi> jhenke: have you restarted your session?
<jhenke> yep
<ochosi> bluesabre: nice! so outdated headers?
<ochosi> jhenke: very strange... not sure what that is about
<jhenke> me too, just asking to let you know about it in time
<ochosi> would be nice if you could file a bugreport against xubuntu-artwork
<ochosi> just so that i don't forget
<ochosi> but i'm not sure where to start debugging this
<ochosi> please check whether the icon is there with other themes
<jhenke> I did not see that icon with any theme... :(
<jhenke> but the sound indicator seems to be bugged itself too
<jhenke> it sometimes crashes on start up/login
<ochosi> mh
<ochosi> i see
<ochosi> its menu also doesn't work 100% here
<ochosi> the volume scale is broken
<ochosi> so it might not be entirely fixed with gtk3.14
<ochosi> so skip that bugreport then, i don't think it's related to our icon theme
<jhenke> okay good to know
<ochosi> it's a known issue, just confirmed that in #u-desktop
<bluesabre> verified
<bluesabre> uploading now
<ochosi> sweet
<ochosi> thanks bluesabre 
<bluesabre> uploaded
<bluesabre> enjoy when that builds and is available :)
<ochosi> nice, will do ;)
<ochosi> and the next step will be patching xdg-utils for light-locker
<ochosi> and disabling locking on suspend by default
<ochosi> then i think we're done in that department
<jhenke> ochosi when do you plan to upload the changes in the theme to the official package?
<brainwash> ochosi, jhenke: sound indicator works perfectly here, no glitches whatsoever (up-to-date vidid)
<jhenke> since shimmer-daily ppa seems to fix the other two ui problems
<jhenke> brainwash thanks, strange, here it is broken, but it seems to be known and not xubuntu specific after what ochosi said
<ali12341> http://i.imgur.com/NEJMKUv.png
<brainwash> bluesabre: logind-handle-lid-switch is set to false (xubu default settings), but the logic has been inverted in xfpm 1.4
<brainwash> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-power-manager/commit/?id=03193df6cad651841e8d9960335b4a3bf13afdad
<brainwash> shouldn't it be set to true now (utopic and up)?
<brainwash> I've asked about this some time ago, maybe you've already given some explanation =S
<ali12341> i just discovered something slightly interesting
<ali12341> in ubiquity when you get the black background, if you press alt-f1 a message pops up saying "no running xfce4-panel instance found". close it, and the background turns blue
<ali12341> that is, the wallpaper loads correctly
<ali12341> looks like xfdesktop loaded
<ali12341> the weird scrollbar in the slideshow is fixed too
<brainwash> ali12341: and let me guess, the unnecessary maximize button is gone too?
<ali12341> didn't notice
<brainwash> Unit193 wrote a patch for the background issue, but I cannot find it
<brainwash> ali12341: some ubiquity windows still have a maximize button despite the xfwm4 fix
<brainwash> I think it's only the case when you run it inside ubiquity-dm
<brainwash> I would like to understand why it's added to the window decoration. however, last time I tried to debug this, I was not able to launch ubiquity-dm on my installed system -> python errors
<ali12341> ochosi: okay i've got 15.04 installed, i can't see any problems with orion except that the indicators have a button type outline
<ali12341> oh wait gtk3
<ali12341> yeah that's messed up, wtf have they done??
<ochosi> the same as with (almost) every release ;)
<ochosi> seriously, just trust me and follow the greybird git log
<ochosi> that (and more) is needed
<ali12341> this install of vivid i just did... the firefox homepage is in arabic
<ali12341> bug 1409015
<ubottu> bug 1409015 in firefox (Ubuntu) "about:startpage is in wrong language" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1409015
<ali12341> ochosi: why does shimmer-themes orion work correctly with headerbar, but the one from git doesn't?
<ali12341> oh wait, never mind
<ochosi> bluesabre: works nicely now! (xfpm+ll)
<ochosi> bluesabre: good work
<ali12341> i see a bug
<ali12341> http://i.imgur.com/fqpq4n6.png the "left" button has missing left border
<ali12341> that's greybird git
<elfy> ochosi: seems that sound indicator is segfaulting
<elfy> perhaps an issue with the card - the older one was ok
<ali12341> ochosi: so everywhere there is ".button:active" rule there should also be a ".button:checked" rule?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Moved to https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+junk/xfpm-pkging
<ochosi> ali12341: yeah, as ridiculous as it sounds, where there was active, there also has to be checked
<ochosi> and the other one with the left border, if you see it for real in an app, i'll investigate
<ochosi> the spinner currently also seems to be broken
<ochosi> elfy: it's a known issue and not sound-card related afaik
<elfy> ok - good - coincidence is good :)
#xubuntu-devel 2015-01-10
<brainwash> elfy: bug 1395720 has been marked as security issue
<ubottu> bug 1395720 in catfish (Ubuntu) "authentication in livesession accepts any value as password" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1395720
<brainwash> that's probably incorrect, or?
<elfy> mmm
<elfy> welll 
<elfy> who marked it ? Alberto again? 
<elfy> oh 
<elfy> lol :p
<brainwash> ofc, he likes to mess with our bug reports
<elfy> posted
<elfy> afaik bluesabre is aware and dealing with it - I can't mark the importance 
<brainwash> it's a minor thing anyway
<elfy> brainwash: does the bug importance change do anything other than annoy *us* 
<elfy> if not - I'd shrug and wait for it to get a fix :)
<elfy> I actually only reported it so there was a paper trail for us 
<brainwash> bug importance is almost meaningless to us :)
<elfy> it almost always is when alberto starts fiddling 
<elfy> karma whoring 
<elfy> bluesabre: while I think about it - got the new xfpm and ll tab
<elfy> exactly what do we want people to test with this - seems like a really good choice for doing specific testing this cycle rather than the previous 'here's the package tracker' 
<elfy> I'm about over the weekend if you are at the same time - if not maybe mail me 
<elfy> thanks 
<elfy> e.g. I'd like to be able to say something like 
<elfy> please test these scenario's 
<elfy> ochosi: ^^
<elfy> mmm think that makes sense lol
<elfy> brainwash: so - who does have bug powers to set importance to a sensible level? 
<brainwash> elfy: alberto does :>
<elfy> ha ha ha 
<elfy> is there not one of us who can?
<elfy> thought there was 
<elfy> if not perhaps we should get xpl to talk to someone about it 
<brainwash> we shouldn't bother with the importance, but at least remove the security issue status
<elfy> yea
<elfy> mmmm
<elfy> really? 
<elfy> other's look then surely?
<elfy> I can see changing private to public as being useful :)
<elfy> oh good lord a security bug - oh nvm ignore that :)
<brainwash> btw did you see the updates to bug 1363540 ?
<ubottu> bug 1363540 in xdg-utils (Ubuntu) "xdg-screensaver resume does not restore previous X11 screensaver timeout" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1363540
<brainwash> I don't know if you are actually affected by this, or just happen to noticed this while testing parole
<brainwash> to notice
<elfy> I did of course, but didn't take much notice of the intervening months
<elfy> random changes to bug titles - mean that I don't see them the same anymore ... 
<elfy> didn't catch that as the parole bug 
<brainwash> ah, well, it's not a parole specific bug anymore :)
<elfy> then not my bag L:)
<elfy> :)
<elfy> and I've never got a satisfactory explanation as to what to do with patches 
<elfy> and I guess that lots of people see patches and think - oh yea a patch ... 
<brainwash> I've attached the patched script file, you just download it, make it executable and test it
<elfy> should be an 'Idiot's guide to pacthes and linux'
<brainwash> it's a plain shell script
<elfy> brainwash: glad you understand that - this is *buntu :D
<elfy> linux for people :)
<brainwash> applying patches is not that complicated. there are some ubuntu wiki articles you could read
<elfy> I don't write docs
<elfy> people who do - don't generally think about the end user
<elfy> and I am NOT talking about *our* docs people there 
<elfy> there really should be a usable wiki for that stuff given that people often leave patches
<elfy> so
<knome> yes
<knome> what can i do for you
<elfy> when we look at the slideshow 
<knome> yeppers
<elfy> how about pointing people to -offtopic as well at least 
<elfy> maybe cut out some of the 
<elfy> 'hey I installed' peeps in support
<knome> they're mainly fine
<elfy> so we see a greater % of people in support actaully needing help
<knome> but i see your point..
<elfy> if we at least advertised both on the slides ... 
<knome> since #x isn't huge traffic, it's nice to see somebody say "hey, nice work" once in a while
<knome> we could do that definitely
<elfy> what does iot ake 
<knome> nothing
<knome> :P
<knome> well, we can do it
<elfy> yea yea - understand that
<elfy> but
<knome> it's just a matter of changing the wording
<knome> i have work items for the slideshow already, i'll keep that in mind
<elfy> imagine bert - really pissed off in support - waitinig for someone to help - seeing a bunch of people come and go saying 'woohoo - works for me' 
<knome> ...when i work with them :)
<elfy> and he still gets no help 
<knome> yeah... but that is unfair sometimes
<elfy> just saying - perceptions
<knome> bert might be in the channel for 5 hours, and dozens of other people have their problems solved
<knome> but bert not, because he might have an odd problem or one that doesn't have a solution
<elfy> of course it is, but many are new and don't understand the bus principle involved in IRC
<knome> yep
<elfy> for the sake of one line - however worded
<knome> so maybe the better solution would be to point to an URL that explains, XYZ
<elfy> go her for help - go here to gloat 
<knome> yep
<knome> something like that
<knome> could even make a playful slide out of that
<knome> not too playful if something isn't working but..
<elfy> yea yea - but slideshow - people read that stuff then then read the paper till the next shot
<knome> yup
<elfy> 2 cycles to go - try stuff - we now know *where* people come *from*
<knome> yep
<knome> i should gather those stats as well i guess
<elfy> I'd not yet
<elfy> change slide
<elfy> then get stats
<knome> i'll make them month-based anyway
<knome> so we can even track the effect of the change
<elfy> yea 
<elfy> but keep quiet then give us 18 months of it :)]
<knome> haha, i'll make a note not to tell you
<elfy> too late - expecting it now ... 
<knome> i didn't know you were carrying a baby
<knome> but congrats ;>
<elfy> too late - expecting it now ... 
<elfy> just so long as it's not a !conga-rat
<ali12341> ochosi: any idea how i fix squashed up menus?
<bluesabre> brainwash: if it was a problem, wouldn't there be more complaints... or no?
<bluesabre> elfy: it only requires light testing... if the tab shows up, and functions as expected, all is well
<bluesabre> Unit193: thanks, I'll tweak it to get the builds going again
<bluesabre> brainwash: yeah, I'm going to fix the auth issue by switching to polkit inside of catfish and mugshot
<bluesabre> ali12341: I think that is/was an issue with monitor struts and xfwm, or is it something different?
<bluesabre> ochosi, ali12341: let me know when you have something release worthy for greybird/orion :)
<brainwash> bluesabre: I guess so.. some people do complain that they still see the black screen issue
<brainwash> bluesabre: but I'm just questioning the logic
<bluesabre> we can flip the switch and see what happens
<bluesabre> :D
<brainwash> bluesabre: it's just a bit confusing. TRUE or FALSE.. logind or not logind..
<brainwash> bluesabre: logind-handle-lid-switch is set to FALSE by default, xubu default settings sets it to FALSE although it's the default value anyway
<brainwash> I guess I'll have to bother you with this until the mystery is solved :)
<ali12341> ochosi: i don't get this. half the reason why orion looks different in gtk 3.14 is because it contains css tat does nothing in gtk 3.12
<ali12341> for example the notebook styles do nothing in 3.12
<ali12341> "fixing" it in 3.14 involves... deleting a bunch of rules and nothing else
<ali12341> cool... notebook tabs fixed
<ali12341> i'm just making the gtk3 theme look like the gtk2 theme at this point, because i don't understand what it is actually supposed to look like
<ali12341> and because in 14.04 the gtk3 theme does look the same as the gtk2 theme
<ali12341> https://github.com/ali1234/Orion/tree/gtk3.14try2
<ali12341> that just leaves the squashed up menus
<Unit193> Oh, and xfdashboard 0.3.5-0ubuntu1 has been uploaded.
<ochosi> evening all
<ochosi> ali1234: not sure what the problem with the menus might be tbh
<knome> hullo ochosi 
<Unit193> Howdy.
<ali1234> ochosi: seems like a bunch of elements have slightly less padding, not just menus
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> it's possible that this is an older thing even, orion hasn't received too many gtk3 updates lately
<ochosi> so i'm not quite sure what state it is in
<ali1234> yeah that would explain the weird non-working css stuff too probably
<ochosi> but i remember some similar issues with greybird a longer while back
<ali1234> do you think it's reasonable to just make the gtk3 look like the gtk2?
<ochosi> yeah, that's the ideal imo
<ali1234> cos the gtk2 should not change, right?
<ochosi> gtk2 isn't very flexible is all
<ochosi> with gtk3 you have a lot more options, but if you really use them, gtk2 will look out of place
<ochosi> so i tried to find a compromise with greybird
<ali1234> also, those transitions...
<ali1234> is that new in 3.14?
<ali1234> i should be able to put transition: none; somewhere right?
<ali1234> and kill them all
<ochosi> yeah, i guess
<ochosi> in one of the global styles
<ochosi> frankly, i've never really touched orion much
<ochosi> it was always satya's theme
<ochosi> i just helped with the xfce parts
<ali1234> what's the connection between shimmer and numix, btw?
<ali1234> i mean, numix project is a separate thing, right? with commercial stuff...
<ochosi> yeah, i don't know, we cooperate on the themes and as far as our cooperation goes, that's in shimmer
<ochosi> i'm not involved with the numix project in general
<ochosi> bluesabre: i just tagged greybird 1.5 after fixing the last visual glitches i found in 3.14. if we find more, i can always do point releases, but this one is ready for upload
<ochosi> bluesabre: https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/releases/tag/v1.5
<ochosi> elfy: you still awake?
<ochosi> or anyone else having a vivid install at their disposal
<ochosi> just need a very quick bug confirmation over here
<Unit193> "Disposal"?  No, and if it's filing a bug report, then I also don't.
<ochosi> nah, this is one i'd fix myself
<ochosi> just wanna confirm it first since it's really easy to check
<ochosi> pull either of the "blank after" scales in xfpm-settings > display tab around and then look at the value saved in xfconf (e.g. with xfce4-settings-editor)
<ali1234> i've got a vm...
<ochosi> if the value is the same, then there's a bug. (it should be multiplied with 60)
<ochosi> ali1234: that'd work too
<ochosi> just wanna make sure i don't have some leftover mumbojumbo pieces of xfpm lying around on my drive that are interfering before i dig into the code
<ali1234> this is the daily from earlier today
<ochosi> yeah, that should be fine
<ali1234> what am i looking at in the xfconf?
<ali1234> blank-on-ac?
<ali1234> if so, it is notmultiplied by 60 here
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> then i have something to fix i guess
<ochosi> first i gotta find who introduced that regression and when
<ochosi> thanks for checking ali1234 
<ali1234> also dpms-on-ac-sleep which is "put to sleep after" i guess
<ochosi> rly?
<ochosi> meh
<ali1234> and "switch off after" -> dpms-on-ac-off
<ochosi> thing is, dpms seemed fine when checked with xset q
<ali1234> basically none of those sliders is multiplied by 60
<ochosi> but screensaver was wrong
<ali1234> the one on system tab isn't either
<ochosi> so maybe the dpms values are multiplied elsewhere but saved as is
#xubuntu-devel 2015-01-11
<ochosi> crap, for some reason no changes of the sliders are reflected by the xserver's settings anymore
<ali1234> this stuff is a damn mess :(
<ochosi> ali1234: does your "xset q" correspond to the values you set?
<ali1234> again... what am i looking at?
<ochosi> nah, it shouldn't be a mess, it was all working, so it seems it all blew up at once
<ochosi> e.g. "blank-on-ac" (if you're currently on ac) should correspond to "xset q | grep timeout" divided by 60
<ali1234> yes it is
<ochosi> cause one is seconds (xset) and the other is in minutes (xfpm, cause that's easier to read)
<ali1234> yeah the timeout is blank-on-ac * 60
<ali1234> that is working okay
<ochosi> hm, weird. then only i have a problem it seems
<ali1234> and same for the other sliders too
<ochosi> well, good to know i guess
<ochosi> thanks
<ali1234> seems like everything is okay here
<ochosi> i was just about to work on xdg-screensaver integration for light-locker when i noticed the timeouts aren't changing for me, and i suspected mayhem
<Unit193> Whoop, missed it.
<ochosi> lucky you :)
<ochosi> well at least i didn't have to go through xfpm's source
<ochosi> ali1234: do you have the "security" tab in xfpm settings already?
<ali1234> no
<ochosi> hmm, mind to update xfpm to whatever's in proposed then?
<ochosi> just to make sure that it isn't that
<ali1234> okay... might take a while
<ali1234> vivid-proposed right?
<ochosi> yup
<ali1234> still works fine
<ali1234> got the security tab
<ali1234> xfconf still isn't multplied by 60
<ali1234> xset still shows correct values
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> phew
<ochosi> guess i'll do the diff for xdg-screensaver when i get that situation here fixed
<ochosi> maybe a reinstall is best
<ochosi> g'day everone
<ochosi> everyone
<elfy> hi ochosi 
<ochosi> hey elfy 
<elfy> probably no need - but can confirm what you and ali1234 saw 
<ochosi> wait, we saw different things :)
<ochosi> it didn't work at all for me but fine for him
<ochosi> so if you see what ali saw, then we're safe
<elfy> oh - I'll read again
<elfy> but what I saw was ... 
<elfy> set xfpm to blank in 5 
<elfy> looking at editor - xfpm says 5 
<ochosi> and xset says 5*60 ?
<elfy> blank-on-ac in xfpm in settings - that says 5 - not 300 or 5*60
<elfy> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-110115-105732.php
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> but what does xset q say?
<ochosi> (should say 300)
<ochosi> "xset q | grep timeout"
<elfy> timeout:  0    cycle:  0
<ochosi> even after dragging the scale around?
<elfy> seems so 
<ochosi> :/
<elfy> not sure what's up there - this is a clean install from friday
<elfy> parole still mucks it up though ... 
<ochosi> yeah, that's known/expected
<ochosi> i worked on fixing that last night when i noticed something was off with xfpm
<ochosi> i actually think i had the solution ready, but testing makes no sense when the screensaver settings aren't handled as they should
<elfy> mmm 
<elfy> so I seem to not have the ppa version installed 
<ochosi> what version of light-locker and xfpm is that then?
<ochosi> i'm still wondering whether i should do a clean install of 15.04 to see whether it's just local breakage
<elfy> xfpm 1.4.2-0ubuntu4 and ll is 1.5.1-0ubuntu1
<elfy> ppa is showing xfpm failed to build 
<elfy> so - I appear to be seeing a different bug I guess
<ochosi> nah, i'm using the same version
<ochosi> ppa version never built
<elfy> yes 
<elfy> but do you see xset not showing what xfpm is? that's what I mean :)
<ochosi> elfy: yeah, that's the problem i started to see yesterday (might've been there before, but i simply didn't notice)
<jjfrv8> ochosi, fwiw, both my vivid machines behave as expected. Desktop with staging ppa and laptop with vanilla install from friday's daily.
<ochosi> jjfrv8: wrt what elfy and i discussed above?
<jjfrv8> affirmative
<ochosi> hm
<ochosi> and the version of xfpm and ll is the same as elfy?
<jjfrv8> desktop is. I did not verify laptop yet but I will in a minute
<bluesabre> good morning folks
<ochosi> hey bluesabre 
<ochosi> i wrote a patch for xdg-screensaver to support ll yesterday and then ran into the issues described above
<ochosi> i'm not really sure whether it's a problem with my install or whether it's more generic
<Unit193> A wild bluesabre has arrived: A: Greet  B: Stab
<Unit193> B
<bluesabre> x.x
 * AgAu throws pokeball
<bluesabre> ochosi: I'm going to install vivid today, I'll see if I can recreate the issues you describe
<ochosi> bluesabre: well if you can't i'm happy
<jjfrv8> ochosi, xfpm and ll versions same as elfy's on my laptop too.
<ochosi> elfy and i have both fiddled with our installs meanwhile
<ochosi> i can try to recreate that patch for xdg-screensaver and push it to a bzr branch so you can test that too
<Unit193> I don't have ll installed...
<Unit193> On the netbook I do, actually, and just upgraded to vivid on it too so I can test if needed.
<ochosi> Unit193: that'd be nice
<ochosi> bluesabre, Unit193: feel free to give this a spin: https://code.launchpad.net/~ochosi/xdg-utils/light-locker
<ochosi> it's very minimal but should work fine
<ochosi> the whole xdg-screensaver script needs a cleanup, but i'll have to coordinate that with seb128 next week
<bluesabre> alrighty
<Unit193> https://packages.qa.debian.org/x/xfce4-session/news/20150111T131834Z.html new upload.
<ochosi> bluesabre: you might've noticed on trello that i fixed all those gtk3.14 issues in the last few days, so greybird is ready to go
<ochosi> hopefully nothing dramatic will turn up
<ochosi> but i guess it'll be fine
<ochosi> numix is also mostly fine, although i have another commit for it
<ochosi> just need to sync that with satya and then that's ready for 15.04 too
<ochosi> (assuming that we'll stick with 3.14)
<Unit193> Noticed Greybird, and thanks for looking at Numix. :)
 * Unit193 is reminded trello exists, and checks.
<Unit193> bluesabre: I'd guess you saw https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/menulibre/+bug/1361143/comments/3 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1361143 in menulibre (Ubuntu) "[SRU] Please release menulibre-2.0.6 to trusty" [Wishlist,In progress]
<ochosi> bluesabre: pushed fix to numix now, so that one is free to go too
<ochosi> Unit193: have you seen/tested this? https://github.com/sonals/xfwm4
<bluesabre> Unit193: seen, not had a chance to address yet
<bluesabre> ochosi: so Greybird, Numix... anything else ready?
<bluesabre> and I'll drop everything else from Depends
<bluesabre> ochosi: should this be changed to adwaita or something similar now? https://github.com/shimmerproject/elementary-xfce/blob/master/elementary-xfce/index.theme#L4
<bluesabre> or perhaps: adwaita,gnome,hicolor ?
<bluesabre> or flip those, not sure which is preferred
<brainwash> ochosi: I have not tested it yet, but does the light-locker support override the xserver management in xdg-screensaver?
<knome> ochosi, poke me with the big commit on greybird again and i'll land it in albatross
<ali1234> knome the gtk3.14 stuff?
<knome> it was something related to buttons iirc
<ali1234> everything after 6f8013cf293f2484b1896bfaaa0a052c02b1f83b fix checkboxes and radios in gtk3.14
<knome> probably 3.14 too
<ali1234> https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/commits/master
<knome> but ochosi knows the exact commit i'm talking about
<ali1234> there's a bunch of changes for buttons
<ali1234> this is the huge one though https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/commit/b86b4ed3a9649b38b2f9fb2071fd187130dd8ddb
<ali1234> and btw, i wrote a python script that does this automatically
<ali1234> so ou don't have to edit every style manually
<knome> okay
<knome> then i'll happily leave it to you :)
<ali1234> well, i don't want to maintain albatross, i'm doing orion
<ali1234> you can have the script though :)
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9713670
<knome> well thanks.
<knome> if you run the script on the albatross css file, i'll push immediately ;)
<knome> and you'll get a cookie
<ali1234> that is far from enough to make it work with gtk3.14 though
<ali1234> there's plenty of other things that need fixing
<knome> i acknowledge, but that's a start
<knome> i'm not exactly looking to dig in to it very much right now, but later, who knows
<knome> and if i can get a biggish thing done, it's always a plus
<Unit193> ochosi: No, what's the difference?
<ali1234> knome: that first commit i referenced is already applied, i guess you just need the scripted one
<knome> ali1234, probably
<knome> ali1234, i don't know, which is why i was asking ochosi in the first place :)
<ali1234> okay hang on then
<knome> cheers
<ali1234> looking at these css files i can see why they would want to use less or sass or whatever
<knome> yep
<ali1234> https://github.com/ali1234/Albatross/commit/0f706811749639420f34aa8963e67f1ed55386ab
<knome> can you make a pull request out of that?
<ali1234> done
<ali1234> of course i'm not 100% sure what i'm doing
<ali1234> i'm just copying what ochosi did on greybird basically
<knome> yes, that's what i would have done as well
<knome> i'll check the sanity
<knome> done
<knome> thanks again
<ochosi> knome: we need all commits, not just a single one
<ochosi> there is the big one which adds the .checked class, but the others are needed too
<knome> ochosi, i thought you said it was done until that commit you pasted then
<ochosi> yeah, but meanwhile more has piled up
<knome> okay
<knome> so everything after that?
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> Unit193: window-previews in alt-tab
<knome> oki, i'll look at it... some time
<ochosi> yeah, first finish that "in development" wallpaper that has been "in development" for a while now ;)
<ochosi> </irony>
<knome> yes, for example
<Unit193> Ah.
<knome> and get a new phone
<knome> :P
<ochosi> bluesabre: true, i'll try to remember that
 * Unit193 wants to get less git snapshots, and more dev releases.
<ochosi> Unit193: yeah, same here. i just felt if you want work, there you go. make it available for testing via PPA ;)
<Unit193> Might do, though on this specific computer I don't have the compositor enabled.
<ochosi> i don't think it's compositor-related
<ochosi> night all
 * ochosi out
<knome> huhu, so early
<knome> nighty
<knome> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/xubuntu-docs/vivid/revision/279
<knome> slickymaster, Unit193 ^
<Unit193> Okay?
<knome> just for the laughs.
<knome> and, to remind you we have to upload a new version
<knome> pleia2, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-website/xubuntu-website/docs-startpage/revision/11
<knome> pleia2, that'd be http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-website/xubuntu-website/docs-startpage/revision/12
#xubuntu-devel 2016-01-11
<bluesabre> knome: http://git.xfce.org/apps/parole/commit/?id=cddb72a9e7a2ae7c2d892f34b9534458208f5123 https://i.imgur.com/ls7KZF3.png
 * bluesabre was going to update shimmer-themes, but then he remembered... shimmer-themes
<bluesabre> ochosi, knome: if one or both of you want to join #kubuntu-devel, I can start poking them this week about taking orion or getting a replacement theme not in shimmer-themes
<knome> bluesabre, am idling there now
<Akxwi-dave> has a decision to drop GMB from Xenial been made yet? Reason for it is that Ubiquity shows GMB as a Media player on the daily images, and if its been dropped shouldn't that be removed?
<Akxwi-dave> ochosi, you posted this http://i.imgur.com/z7y2die.png last week, i'm getting this with today's iso build.. was this ever logged as a bug, as i cannot find it, and do you want it logging as a new bug
<Girish> Hi. I downloaded the daily image of Xubuntu AMD64. When I'm trying to run it in Virtual Box I'm getting the error 'Booting Kernal failed. Invalid Argument'
<Akxwi-dave> do you have virualization turned on in your Bios, if not you may only be able to create 32bit vm's
<flocculant> seems we get black screen at lightdm on install with xenial atm - hardware as well as vm - can anyone confirm? 
<ochosi> flocculant: i'll update my vm and tell you in a bit
<ochosi> humm, i have auto-login enabled, i guess that's a problem for reproducing?
<flocculant> ochosi: yea - that'd not let you reproduce
<flocculant> also trying to see if other people seeing it in -quality 
<flocculant> I'll grab a lubuntu image and check that 
<ochosi> ok, just installed all updates and disabled autologin
<ochosi> the greeter shows up fine here
<flocculant> ochosi: sorry - I obviously wasn't plain enough there - I'm talking about installs 
<ochosi> so yeah, at least with an incrementally updated xenial i can't confirm
<ochosi> on installs?
<flocculant> yea - from today's build 
<ochosi> (silly blueman-applet seems to crash every time though)
<ochosi> right, but where is a lightdm login involved in the live session?
<flocculant> yea - seeing that in the daily 
<flocculant> ochosi: it isn't - all is fine till you reboot today's installed daily - then a black background
<flocculant> oh sigh
<ochosi> a-ha, i see
<flocculant> lubuntu doesn't have a new image yet :|
<ochosi> well that still *could* be reproducible with an updated xenial
<ochosi> but it isn't :)
<flocculant> yea - mine is fine too :)
<flocculant> trying ubuntu now 
<ochosi> righty
<ochosi> wow, i gotta say, gtk3.18 theme breakage could totally be worse
<ochosi> gedit looks really ok with greybird
<flocculant> mostly just want to double check it's global - or at least global enough to include ubuntu :)
<flocculant> been a while since I did that - ubuntu image is 36.9% good lol 
<ochosi> hummm
<ochosi> why is there still no gnome-software to be found in xenial?
<flocculant> not a clue 
<flocculant> not seen mention of it either 
<davmor2> ochosi: because it isn't the default yet?
<ochosi> davmor2: well at least it could be packaged for some testing
<flocculant> evening davmor2 :)
<davmor2> I thought the gnome desktop was using it 
<davmor2> ochosi: so that would mean it would be in universe at least
<ochosi> anywho, i'm adding darkxst's ppa to get 3.18
<ochosi> oh man, outdated libapt :(
<ochosi> anyway, i'll ask around and see whether i get anywhere
<flocculant> ~I saw - I'll watch -desktop too
<flocculant> ochosi: well ubuntu doesn't land at a black background after install - so possibly just us there
<flocculant> bluesabre: ^^ long story, short - install with daily - black background at login
<ochosi> does anyone here know whether pidgin supports icon themes? i only saw some stuff in /usr/share/pixmaps/pidgin and that seems hardcoded
<ochosi> oh, ok, found something..
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: just so you know - ~10am our images build - https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/+livefs/ubuntu/xenial/xubuntu to check if it actually DID build 
<akxwi-dave> flocculant, cheers mate.. :-)
<flocculant> welcome :)
<flocculant> seems we have an issue with it - black background after install 
<ochosi> so, just to give everybody an update on that, robert_ancell said that he will set up an initial PPA for testing gnome-software until the end of the week
<bluesabre> flocculant: I think I saw that before... Does logging in and out resolve that?
<bluesabre> knome, ochosi: just got the go ahead from kubuntu to remove the orion gtk theme from the shimmer-themes package
#xubuntu-devel 2016-01-12
<bluesabre> knome, ochosi: poke if either of you appear.... would you like to also drop albatross and bluebird from the shimmer-themes package at this time?
<flocculant> bluesabre: mmm seems so - didn't get much further than installing it twice last night
<flocculant> bluesabre: funnily vbox sees it with just a reboot, hardware I actually had to login/out/reboot to see something 
<Akxwi-dave> flocculant, regarding the black screen at login on yesterday's iso..  I'm getting a normal background, BUT if i swap to guest account, then the screen goes black.. still happening if i login in as a user, and log back out..
<bluesabre> flocculant, Akxwi-dave: So, based on that, I think there might be an issue with the greeter seeing the default wallpaper. It seems to have no issue with ones set by accounts service (where a user has logged in and accounts service has had a chance to save the config)
<flocculant> bluesabre: sounds logical
<Akxwi-dave> bluesabre, flocculant : I agree... especially as just installed todays build and on initial boot before the first login to installed system, the background is black, after that initial login users background is shown. After relogin as guest it stays black (i am assuming as guest login doesn't save any configs etc)
<flocculant> Akxwi-dave: k - just doing that here too
<Akxwi-dave> :-)
<Akxwi-dave> has it been logged as a bug yet?
<flocculant> must say I've not looked at images for a week or so, not sure when this happened
<flocculant> I've not reported it yet - wanted to double check it was just us, then no idea what package to report against either - greeter I guess
<bluesabre> lightdm-gtk-greeter
<bluesabre> (please)
<Akxwi-dave> I only noticed it yesterday..
<Akxwi-dave> will do
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok - just booting the installed vm now will report it from there
<flocculant> apport fails against lightdm-gtk-greeter :(
<flocculant> nmv - tab complete caught up at the wrong time ... 
<Akxwi-dave> ahh talking of apport, are you getting a blueman-apport crash?
<flocculant> yea 
<flocculant> Akxwi-dave: pretty sure it'll not just be us
<flocculant> bluesabre Akxwi-dave bug 1533200
<ubottu> bug 1533200 in lightdm-gtk-greeter (Ubuntu) "Black background at first login" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1533200
<flocculant> bluesabre: I can leave that vm untouched now I reported it if you want anything else from it
<Akxwi-dave> cheers.. you beat me too it
<flocculant> bbl
<Girish> I downloaded the daily image of Xubuntu AMD64. When I'm trying to run it in Virtual Box I'm getting the error 'Booting Kernal failed. Invalid Argument'
<Akxwi-dave> Girish, Do you have the virualization turned on in your bios?  if not it will only let you create 32bit VM's
<Girish> Akxwi-dave: I've virtualised before this. So I guess yeah it's turned on.
<Akxwi-dave> Girish, :-) well it cant be that problem then...
<Girish> Yeah.
<Akxwi-dave> Sorry can't help on that further at mo..I don't have access to a 64bit machine at this time... 
<flocculant> Girish: run the vm in vbox - screenshot the error message - thanks
<ochosi> evening all
<duress> Girish: if you do not mind me asking, did you checksum ? 
<Unit193> bluesabre: So, see #xfce-dev?
<flocculant> evening ochosi 
<ochosi> Unit193: heya, you up for some packaging work?
<Unit193> ...This sounds like an awful trick question. >_>
<ochosi> ...Could be cause it is..? *_*
<ochosi> i'
<ochosi> ll send you a link
<ochosi> then you can decice
<ochosi> or decide even
<ochosi> https://github.com/shimmerproject/pidgin-elementary
<ochosi> since you said you might be motivated to extract the elementary stuff from xubuntu-artwork, you might not want to have that there to begin with
<ochosi> ideally it
<ochosi> 'd be a new pkg imo
<ochosi> but if we don't find the time, we can always push it in -artwork
<Unit193> Heh, in some form or another I already did extract things into elementary-themes, or whatever it's called.
<ochosi> i see i see
<ochosi> well i presumed the hard part would be to get the new package accepted in ubuntu (or even debian), not the technical part of *actually* packaging it ;)
<Unit193> Quite so.
<ochosi> would you be up for that?
<ochosi> thing is atm i can't really help much with the poking as i'm not that available during the day
<Unit193> If it's meant for going in, can you tag a release (or are we testing first?)
<ochosi> ideally we'd be trying it
<ochosi> also, the make stuff for the package would have to include svntopng, like xubuntu-artwork
<ochosi> not even sure pidgin handles svg
<ochosi> i'd prefer with a package in staging
<ochosi> as soon as that works okay, i'd go for realz
<ochosi> i can generally tag a release anytime, i'd just probably add the 24px versions to prevent too much icon-scaling and fuzziness
<Unit193> Welp, this sounds like "fun"...
<ochosi> :>
<ochosi> well as i said, we can always stuff it in xubuntu-artwork
<Unit193> Think it makes more sense to either move things now, or add that in.  Granted if you add it in that makes more for transitioning later, but it's an LTS so "break less" is generally to motto. :P
<ochosi> yeah, i'd say that depends on your motivation
<Unit193> Well this and the svg2png doesn't look fun. >:D
<Unit193> ochosi: I poked bluesabre, but see #xfce-dev scrollback?
<ochosi> i guess the svg2png part is just copy-pasting
<ochosi> oh, i was totally unaware of that calculator...
<ochosi> or were you referring to the xfdashboard part?
<Unit193> Yeah.
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> well i don't have the feeling it's half as unmaintained as the rest of xfce >:D
<knome> huhu
<knome> ochosi, you should hope ofourdan is not reading the logs for this channel
<knome> :P
<ochosi> right, that is precisely why i repeated it in #xfce-dev
<knome> ;)
<Unit193> ochosi: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?maint=pkg-xfce-devel%40lists.alioth.debian.org that's a lot of freaking bugs.
<ochosi> right, but there are even lightdm bugs, not sure why exactly
<Unit193> pkg-xfce maintains it.
<ochosi> right
<Unit193> ochosi: Anywho, point being it's not making it into Debian any time soon, time to get it into Ubuntu?
<ochosi> sure
<ochosi> alright, two icons to go and then v0.1 would be ready
<ochosi> i guess some icons will need more tweaking, but that's for v0.2
<ochosi> Unit193: https://github.com/shimmerproject/pidgin-elementary/releases/tag/v0.1
<ochosi> also, bluesabre Ë
<ochosi> bbabl
<bluesabre> ochosi: nice
<bluesabre> evening all
<knome> hello bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hiya knome 
<knome> how's the wallpaper contest webapp coming up?
<bluesabre> every time I start on that, something comes up.  I just need to figure out launchpad/uo auth and I should be able to take submissions
<knome> :)
<ochosi> so just a quick update on that: pidgin does *not* support svg icon themes, so we definitely have to convert to png
<ochosi> i guess the best way is to do it in the packaging scripts
<ochosi> bluesabre: any comment from your side on getting this in xubuntu-artwork vs. creating a new separate package?
<Unit193> xubuntu-icon-theme, libreoffice-style-elementary are elementary too.
<ochosi> anyway, i gotta leave you to yourselves with this, gotta get some sleep
<ochosi> night y'all
<knome> good night ochosi 
<bluesabre> nighty ochosi 
<bluesabre> I don't have a strong opinion, other than lo-style-elementary will be part of the libreoffice source package at some point
<bluesabre> maybe its time to rename some packages
<bluesabre> so that there is elementary-xfce-icon-theme (or elementary-icon-theme-xfce), pidgin-elementary-theme, etc
<bluesabre> part of this would be making sure we don't step on elementary's packaging toes (if we're nice folks, which we are)
<bluesabre> in the end, adding it to the xubuntu-artwork source package would be easiest and require the least red tape to cut through
<bluesabre> Unit193: thoughts?
<bluesabre> going out for food now, bbabl
<Unit193> I'm hungry.
#xubuntu-devel 2016-01-13
<bluesabre> Unit193: eat?
<Unit193> I did, though wasn't that great.
<bluesabre> knome: https://youtu.be/2lQnALrJ-0w
<knome> bluesabre, mhm
<knome> bluesabre, one thing i noticed there's no confirmation that the upload was ok
<knome> bbl
<sidi> Guys I really hope you plan on stopping shipping Abiword some day. This thing is  a joke. Updated a 15.04 to 15.10 and for some mysterious reason Abiword (which I literally have *never* run on that system) has writte 412GB of data into ~/.config/abiword (well till disk was full) 
<sidi> I suspect a bit of a mess-up with debian preinst/postinst scripts for the Wily package
 * sidi is done complaining :p sorry
<Unit193> sidi: preinst/postinst don't touch users home.  What was in that dir?  And we've already stopped shipping it in favor of LO.
<sidi> Unit193, it'll remain a mystery, I needed to ditch it because my workstation was kind of not working anymore
<sidi> can the postinst run the app or other utilities?
<sidi> and the app then go AWOL?
<Unit193> It can run stuff of course, but generally is run as root.
<sidi> Is there anything special about the Thunar package on Xubuntu? I have the impression that Launchpad builds it without applying Quilt patches!?
<sidi> I'm really confused...
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: have you been watching the doodle poll for the next session at all? 
<akxwi-dave> not for a week or so
<flocculant> k - currently the best is 3 for 16:00
<flocculant> was going to ask the social media peeps to bump that next week, bump the mail lists then set date beginning of the week after that
<akxwi-dave> sounds good mate
<flocculant> I think those are the weeks anyway - basically bump and then set in the 6 days prior if that makes sense :)
<ochosi> wow, gnome is really doing a rather big redesign of the settings dialog...
<flocculant> no need for settings anymore? 
<ochosi> haha, almost
<ochosi> well at least it seems more locked down, the approach they're taking doesn't really allow for meaningfully "plugging in" extra settings dialogs
<flocculant> :)
<ochosi> (and i guess that is the whole point: *they* want to decide what is important to the users, and to some extent that makes sense too. but only to some.)
<Unit193> Well as long as they aren't messing with GTK, shouldn't matter.
<flocculant> yea I know that - which is why I don't install gnome or ubuntu now
<Unit193> ochosi: You have mail, btw.
<flocculant> just makes me wonder just how useful this gnome replacement for the ubuntu software tool is actually going to be
<Unit193> flocculant: You open it, it detects you aren't running GNOME and fixes it for you.  Doesn't actually do much else.
<ochosi> tbh i've never seen gnome-software in action myself
<flocculant> nope
<Unit193> I gave a few screenies, wasn't too bad right?
<ochosi> but since the ubuntu software center is not a revelation, my general level of expectation is fairly low
<flocculant> I suppose I'll grab the ppa when it shows up
<flocculant> yea 
<ochosi> yeah, me too
<flocculant> ochosi: but should we use it 
<flocculant> if we've been using usc and it's not really been supported - what difference does keeping it make? 
<ochosi> dunno, i'll wait and see what gnome-software does
<flocculant> I guess that's best 
<flocculant> hopefully it'll show up at eow 
<Unit193> bluesabre: Only FTBFS we have on the test rebuild/gcc6 rebuild is xubuntu-docs. \o/
<Unit193> BTW, I can't login to the wiki to update the meetings page.
<ochosi> a-ha a-ha
<ochosi> from when on are we going to use the new wiki? (knome?)
<flocculant> Unit193: I appear to have been logged out of there too
<flocculant> ochosi: I didn't think we were using our wiki for everything? 
<ochosi> i dunno, i wasn't really around to follow the website transition discussion tbh
<Unit193> I dunno, but one that actually works would be nice.
<ochosi> i just presumed we would use our own wiki once we have one
<flocculant> as long as it's open to everyone
<ochosi> (why keep info in two places?)
<flocculant> if it's not open to everyone then that's just plain wrong
<ochosi> yeah, i'm sure we'll find a meaningful policy for openness
<flocculant> well 
<Unit193> OpenID?
<flocculant> ochosi: open is right - any sort of not open is wrong seems a good starting point
<ochosi> what do you mean by "open" anyway?
<ochosi> world-readable? world-writeable?
<flocculant> that anyone can edit pages 
<Unit193> flocculant: Bad idea, because spam.
<flocculant> just the same as the one we're replacing
<ochosi> do they need accounts? can they edit any page?
<flocculant> Unit193 then the same as the ubuntu one
<flocculant> ochosi: nothing wrong with needing an account ofc - but nothing we currently have is immutable
<flocculant> (when the ubuntu wiki works)
<ochosi> yeah, the way to ubuntu wiki sometimes doesn't work sorta makes some pages feel immutable :p
<flocculant> yea - but that's just canonical fail on wiki :)
<flocculant> \o/
<flocculant> logged in - set date now
<Unit193> Thanks.  Mine had a proxy timeout when I tried.
<flocculant> I'll try and populate the agenda vaguely
<flocculant> any need to bring -themes up? 
<ochosi> i'd ask bluesabre 
<ochosi> but generally i think we're on tra k
<ochosi> some greybird fixes have landed, others are still due
<Unit193> Perhaps, but it highly stinks...
<flocculant> ochosi: ok - just seems easier to add things to agenda while logged in then ignore it than fight to login again :p
<ochosi> and the other part about not having >1 usable theme, well, it's still too early to tell
<flocculant> added themes to the list 
<flocculant> we can ignore it :)
<Unit193> ochosi: Can you make it to the scheduled time?
<flocculant> Unit193: anyway - done, not fighting google calendar tonight though ... hint
<Unit193> flocculant: Thanks.
<flocculant> ochosi: my issue is that we don't introduce any sort of censorship into our wiki that isn't present in the one we use currently 
<Unit193> flocculant: BTW, current images fine?
<flocculant> ish
<Unit193> And thanks for reminding me about Numix, means I don't update 'alpha' :P
<flocculant> Unit193: not checked today, yesterday all was good except black login screen after install, which went after login/out/in
<flocculant> and blueman crash
<Unit193> Was thinking about another core update, considering last one was 31-Dec-2015.
<flocculant> yea
<ochosi> Unit193: i'll try, can't promise though
<ochosi> it's not totally unrealistic that i'll make it
<flocculant> Unit193: that was the other thing I meant to add to agenda ... 
<Unit193> flocculant: Why bother?  No status updates since last time.
<flocculant> getting really itchy with my hat on with that now
<flocculant> because that ^^ 
<flocculant> we should get it talked about - even if we end up thinking about 19.04 for it 
<flocculant> Unit193: you can update your one - I don't much push it, I think that slickymaster tries to look when he can
<Unit193> flocculant: Sure, I don't mean to push you or others, but may as well have it up to date, I see random hits on it after all.
<flocculant> yea 
<flocculant> I understand that - and I *do* try it out now and again too :)
<flocculant> what I'm after is it being on the tracker properly so we can follow it properly 
<flocculant> we should perhaps look at the website pointer to IRC and tell people to hang about for at least 15 minutes ... 
<flocculant> "Due to the real-time nature of IRC, it is often the fastest way to get help" > "Due to the real-time nature of IRC, it is often best to wait for at least 30 minutes after asking a question before leaving, no need to repeat, just have some patience. In addition many of your questions would be answered just as easily in #ubuntu, try us for the xfce side of your installation queries"
<pleia2> flocculant: shared package testing info on the social medias
<flocculant> pleia2: thank you :)
<flocculant> pleia2: next week sometime I'm going to have one last push of the irc session 
<flocculant> with the ordinary link
<pleia2> hehe
<pleia2> ok, I have travel+conference starting on wednesday, so I'll catch up when I am back at computer and not dead
<flocculant> ok - I'll push it monday :)
<pleia2> wfm
<flocculant> then ask you social peeps to do your magic
<flocculant> then set time on the 25th 
<flocculant> assuming more than 3 people ... 
<pleia2> I don't think I have people
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> you're just one of the peeps :)
<flocculant> knome: ^^^ "due to real time nature ..." just a thought and a draft one at that :p
<flocculant> night all 
#xubuntu-devel 2016-01-14
<sidi> Does anyone here have a Xubuntu vivid box ready to boot?
<sidi> Need to check a few env variables and I dont have one
<slickymasterWork> I haven't sidi
<slickymasterWork> sorry :(
<Akxwi-dave> same here only got wiley and xenial
<sidi> you modern people
<slickymasterWork> lol
<Unit193> sidi: Vivid is EOL.
<sidi> Unit193, I know that yeah :-)
<flocculant> sidi: can boot one if you want it 
<flocculant> still
<sidi> flocculant, it's ok thanks i managed to get one installed :-)
<flocculant> k - guessed, it being an hour or more ago :)
<knome> ochosi, feel free to use the wiki starting from now, but notice that i might be moving pages around for better organization :P
<knome> flocculant, where was that thing you wanted to change again? (re: irc)
<knome> and re: wiki generally, my thinking is that we will make most pages editable by everybody, but since we *can* have some specific ACL rules, i don't see any reason why the front page or the contacts page wouldn't be locked for non-team members
<flocculant> knome: http://xubuntu.org/help/ it's just a thought is all 
<flocculant> knome: and that ^^ makes sense 
<knome> flocculant, i only glanced at it, but feel free to change the wording
<flocculant> knome: didn't want to just do that :)
<knome> and as a further comment, the registration/logging in isn't done via ubuntu SSO right now because i haven't looked seriously at making that work
<knome> so we're still more or less in a transitional mode, but otoh, the wiki is ready to start using too
<flocculant> guessed that 
<flocculant> and that :)
<knome> in that case you likely also guessed that i'm going to be off for some time now ;)
<knome> will be back later in the evening - hf meanwhile
<flocculant> ha ha 
<flocculant> cya
<ochosi> knome: kewl, will do
<flocculant> ochosi: evening :)
<flocculant> just mailed the users re 15.04 EOL 
<ochosi> knome: btw, the lack of hoverstyles sorta makes that page (along with the tracker) feel a bit 90ish. but i guess that's the style you're going for :p
<ochosi> flocculant: alrighty, thanks!
<ochosi> and evening to you too :)
<knome> ochosi, we can totally add hoverstyles
<knome> ochosi, as you can imagine, i've been busy with things related to the website and dev area within my time i have been able to use to work with
<knome> i should probably try to integrate the wiki as a tab to the tracker today...
<knome> s/try to//
<knome> pleia2, looks like i can't ssh to the dev server
<knome> pleia2, any specific reason?
<Unit193> I accidentally docs.xubuntu.com earlier.
<knome> tut tut. :P
<Unit193> That is, doesn't redirect right and it is a bare apache page.
<knome> "nice"
<pleia2> knome: I don't see any ssh attempts from your user
<knome> :|
<pleia2> what error are you getting?
<knome> nothing, it just does nothing when i type the ssh command
<pleia2> ssh -vvv knome@..
<flocculant> did a 15.04 eol post for x.org which isn't at alll flowery, left it as draft https://xubuntu.org/?p=3676&preview=true if anyone wants to pretty it up
<flocculant> evening knome pleia2 
<knome> hello flocculant 
<knome> pleia2, something is being :| again
<pleia2> knome: can you get to the server over http?
<knome> hmm, actually nope
<knome> it seems to be sleeping
<Unit193> There's your problem.
<pleia2> try: traceroute docs.xubuntu.org
<pleia2> that'll show where in the broken internet it's getting stuck
<pleia2> won't help much, but you will know who to be grumpy at :D
<knome> well http works again
<knome> but MEH!
<knome> descr:          Finnish Communication and Internet Exchange - FICIX ry
<knome> congratulatios me
<knome> +n
<knome> cub, was it you who was asking about the ubuntu studio website?
<cub> Well long time ago..?
<knome> like a few months?
<cub> during the summer I think?
<knome> might be
<knome> anyway, i might have a half-answer for you
<cub> We were talking about hotting up the web site before 15.10
<knome> i've been working on a theme for ubuntu community teams to use
<cub> nice
<knome> it's now available at https://github.com/knomepasi/ubuntu-community-wordpress-theme/
<knome> and you can even change the colors etc from the wordpress admin
<knome> now, would that be something you might be willing to use?
<cub> I will take a look!
<knome> for what it's worth, if you are missing some specific theming thing, i could potentially just add it to that theme
<cub> I know zequence would like a new look for 16.04.
<knome> this is very much alike ubuntu.com, but it's a bit lighter and more streamlined
<knome> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/knomepasi/ubuntu-community-wordpress-theme/master/screenshot.png
<knome> you can change the header color and logo as well as all link colors from the admin, so no need to touch the theme for that
<knome> if you want a dark bg theme... then i'll likely have to think about supporting that too ;)
<knome> what i need right now is people who are potentially interested in using that theme to look at it and play with it, so we can figure out if there are some obvious problems
<cub> I like light themes but I might be the only one.. :D
<knome> supporting a dark scheme is not trivial, but it's easy enough to implement if that was the only blocker...
<cub> The screenshot looks good!
<cub> I will set up a WP test site and try it out
<knome> thanks
<knome> and thanks, that's much appreciated
<knome> if you find obvious bugs/have clear feature requests, you can file them as issues in github
<knome> or just poke me
<cub> great
<knome> i'll try to make this theme available in the canonical farm some time this year
<knome> after i've gotten to a point where i can say the theme is relatively stable
<knome> and basically the sooner i get feedback, the sooner i can make it available
<cub> I'm still quite tied up with work and family but will get on it when I can. :)
<knome> sure, no rush from my side
<cub> Thanks, gotta get to bed. G'night!
<knome> night!
<knome> zequence, ^
<ochosi> bluesabre: crap, i have no idea where to install pidgin status icon themes systemwide. seems like /usr/share/purple/themes doesn't work while ~/.purple/themes does
<knome> hooray
<ochosi> that plus the fact that all icons for pidgin live in /usr/share/pixmaps seems fishy... (not even mentioning the hardcoded app-icon)
<knome> :)
<knome> the wiki theme and tracker code updates are on launchpad branches now
<ochosi> nice work!
<bluesabre> ochosi: suppose we can dig into the code if the pidgin docs are no good
<ochosi> yeah, there are practically no docs
<bluesabre> dinner time, bbabl
<ochosi> maybe also propose a patch for setting the appicon correctly ;)
<ochosi> righty, i bedtime for me
<ochosi> bb"ab"l
<ochosi> this one seems to deal with the icon themes: https://hg.pidgin.im/pidgin/main/file/dbebc1ee96aa/pidgin/pidginstock.c
<ochosi> or more specifically: https://hg.pidgin.im/pidgin/main/file/dbebc1ee96aa/pidgin/pidginstock.c#l398
<ochosi> anyway, night all!
<Unit193> pidgin/gtkthemes.c:     probedirs[0] = g_build_filename(DATADIR, "pixmaps", "pidgin", "emotes", NULL);
#xubuntu-devel 2016-01-15
<knome> slickymaster, have you got the ACK from people?
<knome> slickymaster, or do we need to discuss?
<slickymaster> no one ack it 
<slickymaster> as far as I'm concerned we can just go ahead and do it
<knome> well i'm not sure...
<knome> if does affect everybody
<slickymaster> wheen we threw the idea out there no one did even care to answer our email
<slickymaster> yes, it does...
<slickymaster> ... in the paper
<knome> not caring to answer is different from "i don't mind if everything suddenly changes"
<slickymaster> I can re-send another email saying we're planning on doing it this cycle
<knome> tbh, i don't think we should handle this the way canonical is often handling things
<knome> yeah, that at least
<slickymaster> ok, will do it and give it a month deadline for answers
<knome> ok, that's good
<slickymaster> we'll talk then about the technical aspect of it
<knome> we can also do it now
<knome> i mean now meaning when i've finished eating :P
#xubuntu-devel 2016-01-16
<flocculant> ochosi: looked at gnome-software in a vm
<flocculant> so we still appear to lose printer config
<flocculant> installing it doesn't remove ubuntu software centre for us seemingly - not that it would be a problem, cos we'd only have 1 seeded
#xubuntu-devel 2016-01-17
<bluesabre> flocculant: shimmer-themes daily ppa should build numix correctly now
<bluesabre> (new builds are up)
<bluesabre> knome, ochosi: poke
<bluesabre> knome, ochosi: so, numix git is not as broken as what we currently have. I'm thinking: drop alabtross, bluebird along with orion and add git snapshots of greybird and numix in the next package upload.
<Unit193> \o/
<bluesabre> xfce4-power-manager builds in the xubuntu daily ppa should be fixed now, packages building
<bluesabre> I think for my apps (catfish, mugshot, menulibre), I am going to change the ppa packaging schemes... single PPA, and {app}, {app}-devel/beta/unstable (something) and {app}-daily packages
<bluesabre> make it easier to switch tracks and test
<bluesabre> anyway, heading out now, bbabl
<bluesabre> yay, updated xfpm packages are now in https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/ppa
<bluesabre> enjoy!
<bluesabre> bbl
<flocculant> jjfrv8: you did poll before just like dkessel - I removed them so it was easier for me to see who'd polled not 'team'
<flocculant> same with akxwi-dave's 
<flocculant> looking like 16:00
<akxwi-dave> howdo
<flocculant> evening akxwi-dave 
<akxwi-dave> hows things going?
<flocculant> not too bad :)
<ochosi> evening all
<ochosi> bluesabre: poke back
<Unit193> No, scratch his back for him!
<flocculant> evening ochosi 
<ochosi> hey flocculant 
 * ochosi scratches Unit193's back
<knome> bluesabre, wfm
<ochosi> bluesabre: numix and greybird from git is fine by me, i can do a new release of greybird anytime though. mostly need to fix the linked buttons, then i'm ready
<knome> pleia2, i don't know what's up with the tracker/server, but it seems that it's losing the bugs spec now and then
<knome> pleia2, if you look at the burndown, you'll notice a few days when it has failed to get it on the last attempt for the day
#xubuntu-devel 2017-01-09
<ochosi> flocculant: i just pushed some more improvements, so when the log limit is hit, there is a button that you can push to open the full log
<ochosi> flocculant: btw, does the scrolling issue persist?
<ochosi> (with the logging_rebased branch ofc)
<flocculant> ochosi: ok - I'll look at that log/button later
<flocculant> ochosi: at the moment yes - the scroll issue persists for noticication open at setting manager
<ochosi> ok, meh
<flocculant> yea 
<ochosi> other than that i have the feeling this is pretty much ready to be merged to master
<flocculant> close 
<ochosi> only some of the strings for the options maybe need to be finalized
<ochosi> but the functionality is there, at least i have nothing much else planned
<flocculant> by that I assume you mean words ?
<ochosi> yeah
<flocculant> yep - then this seems like a winner :)
<ochosi> but i'll wait for more input on that from you and bluesabre
<flocculant> strings?
<krytarik> Labels.
 * flocculant will do some mockups - now he can :p
<krytarik> \o/
<flocculant> ochosi: proved the button got log limit locally - just to make sure :)~
<flocculant> the cat obviously typed 'got' while I was momentarily distracted
<knome> right...
<ochosi> lol
<knome> (:
<knome> hello peeps
<flocculant> ochosi: I'm having trouble thinking of a replacement for muted - other than something simple like hidden :p
<flocculant> bbl
<ochosi> flocculant: yeah, hidden is probably not better
<ochosi> flocculant: unless we rename the label in the app tab to something like "Show/hide notifications for:"
<ochosi> then it's a little more ambiguous than now, but maybe also ok
<flocculant> ochosi: mmm - I don't think we need do that, I'm just having trouble with muted in my head here :)
<flocculant> onyl way I can see muted in relation to something I could see is if the 'colour was reduced' not gone completely
<flocculant> if it made a sound by default then no problem :)
<flocculant> and using visible/invisible sounds worse too
<flocculant> anyway - ignoring that - which perhaps is the best option http://i.imgur.com/ElwtFmt.png http://i.imgur.com/3SCYK7T.png
<ochosi> flocculant: not sure im a fan of "clear after" or whether that's clearer really (pun intended)
<ochosi> and "show for" seems so short that i can also imagine just getting rid of the label altogether
<flocculant> well it's up to you, just seems overkill to keep saying notification(s) everywhere to me :)
<flocculant> disappear just sounds like you're wielding a number7 wand at it :p
<akxwi-dave> ochosi:  flocculant  how about "Display For:-"
<ochosi> and then the corresponding logging option would be..? "exclude not-displayed" "only not-displayed"? :)
<akxwi-dave> "exclude displayed" "only displayed"  
<akxwi-dave> work it the other way
<flocculant> that sounds better 
<flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/DxZ6if9.png looks sensible too
<ochosi> sry, but i dunno, displayed also doesn't really cut it for me :/
<flocculant> mmmm
<flocculant> well muted is wrong :)
<krytarik> knome: I'd be in favor of rebuilding  http://docs.xubuntu.org/1610/ , since I see there is still "portuguÃªs portuguÃªs" on there. >_>
<knome> krytarik, yeah, but that's just one of the places we have the documentation
#xubuntu-devel 2017-01-11
<flocculant> bluesabre: btw - got those new sgt games landed today - which have all nicely added into the launcher 
<knome> new games?!
<knome> wut?!
<knome> (:
<krytarik> hahaha
<flocculant> yea - Sean thought it amusing that sgt updated had new games, first update since Oct 2014 :p
<knome> heh
<flocculant> ochosi: need anymore testing on notifications? if not I'll stop it logging now 
<flocculant> actually I'll test 'do not disturb' + logging before I stop
<bluesabre> flocculant, woo! I'll fix the launcher next
#xubuntu-devel 2017-01-12
<flocculant> bluesabre: what's up with the launcher? seems ok to me :)
<ochosi> flocculant: if you have tested everything then feel free to stop (unless ofc you have discovered issues that i haven't fixed yet)
<ochosi> flocculant: then it's mostly the string-review missing for merging this to master and releasing it
<flocculant> ochosi: I'd concur that from what I've seen all that needs to be done now is labels/strings
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: you good with dealing with lts point next week? 
<flocculant> ochosi: btw I did check out logging options when Do Not Disturb
<ochosi> flocculant: perfect, thanks a bunch!
<flocculant> ochosi: np :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: since you're working on the pidgin theming, i think i'll create a smiley theme as well based on elementary
<flocculant> surely :) and ;) are elementary smiley's ... 
<flocculant> really couldn't pass that one up :D
<ochosi> :}
<ochosi> still WIP, but here it is: https://github.com/shimmerproject/pidgin-elementary/tree/smiley-theme
#xubuntu-devel 2017-01-13
<flocculant> bluesabre: thought I'd best remind you of that parole/some mkv files issue
<flocculant> tried to install parole from daily ppa and got some dependency issue with gstreamer1.0-clutter 
<a1fa> hello - i hit a strange resume bug with xfce in xubuntu 17.04 not wanting to unlock after resuming
<a1fa> anyone else hit that?
<flocculant> a1fa: only seen resume after lock issues when I've locked accidentally and quickly tried resuming
<flocculant> with nvidia
<flocculant> best thing you can do is report it ubuntu-bug light-locker then you can report that bug number in here
<a1fa> this is a laptop with intel gpu - i waited 10 min between resumes
<flocculant> people able to test will try and confirm that 
<a1fa> should i do launchpad bug report?
<flocculant> didn't see it when I was using intel on the desktop - but laptop/desktop issues often vary 
<flocculant> a1fa: use ubuntu-bug and it will grab all the things it needs from your system
<a1fa> let me try again
<a1fa> btw - liking the new defaults in 17.04
<flocculant> a1fa: also the xubuntu-devel mailing list is a good place to catch people using dev version
<a1fa> flocculant: how long should i wait before resume? 30s?
<a1fa> < 
<flocculant> when I've managed to fail it - it was less than the time it takes to enter a password - so 30s should be fine :)
<a1fa> ok. 50s.. i get "This session is locked" 
<a1fa> so i get prompted for password, i unlock it, it goes to black screen with "This session is locked"
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> we saw that before cycle or so back
<flocculant> not tried lately - might be back in a bit too long ...
<a1fa> so far the workaround is to restart lightdm
<a1fa> should i open a bug for light-locker?
<flocculant> you can or I can now I've had a go ...
<flocculant> I'll dig out the old bug
 * flocculant checks one of the previous symptoms
<a1fa> were you able to replicate it?
<flocculant> yup 
<flocculant> and the old symptom
<flocculant> a1fa: thanks for bringing it up :)
<a1fa> no problem - glad it will get some attention
<a1fa> i'm also testing btrfs on root on this machine
<a1fa> its a laptop with dual msata disks
<flocculant> bluesabre: so we appear to have lock issues again - very similar to bug 1622303
<ubottu> bug 1622303 in xfce4-session (Ubuntu) "Fails to unlock/ resumes to black screen" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1622303
<flocculant> which last time was down to pitti change to x-d-s - but guessing not that as we've got same package still
<flocculant> I'm seeing slightly different than last time - lock with music playing, unlock and momentarily can hear music - which then stops again - cursor flashing in top right on tty8 as it tries to unlock
<flocculant> I guess it would be best to report anew for this cycle? 
<flocculant> and \o/ for it not being the middle of April ;)
<a1fa> want me to report it?
<flocculant> a1fa: probably - but also maybe not as we have the bug linked just above from the 16.10 cycle
<flocculant> a1fa: would be useful to know if you saw it in 16.10?
<a1fa> i did
<a1fa> but it unlocked after 2nd time
<flocculant> oh really 
<flocculant> odd
 * flocculant will try tomorrow at booting with intel driver and checking that too
<a1fa> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-locker/+bug/1656399
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1656399 in light-locker (Ubuntu) "Unable to unlock Xubuntu XFCE session after suspend." [Undecided,New]
<flocculant> a1fa: you didn't run ubuntu-bug from a terminal? just manually reported it? 
<a1fa> manually :X
<a1fa> dont have the interwebs on that laptop
<flocculant> right 
<a1fa> can i run it into a file, and attach it?
<flocculant> yea - trying to remember how :)
<a1fa> here i got interwebs up now
<a1fa> lets see
<flocculant> a1fa: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs#Filing_bugs_when_offline_or_using_a_headless_setup
<a1fa> ok i think i associated the report
<flocculant> a1fa: thanks :)
<a1fa> flocculant: i got some more news.. same behaviour after idle screen
<flocculant> a1fa: pretty sure that's the same light-locker
<a1fa> yeah and if you click lock, same thing happens -_X
<flocculant> yup
<flocculant> bluesabre: luckily I can confirm all this lock issue on a vm so no need to install to see it
<flocculant> well - when I say luckily I have tongue in cheek - what would be really lucky would be a cycle without light-locker coming up again
<flocculant> (unless it's lightdm ofc)
<flocculant> also - pretty sure I wasn't seeing this for the whole cycle - at some point in the last couple of months I've suspended and it's been ok
#xubuntu-devel 2017-01-14
<ochosi> flocculant: meh, not again... could you try to reproduce with gnome-screensaver?
<ochosi> in the past i noticed that the two behave pretty much the same
<flocculant> morning ochosi - yep will look at that
<flocculant> ochosi: ok so, suspend and unlock works, lock then unlock works, can't appear to get the machine to lock after 'a time' with g-s though
<flocculant> checking last one in vm
<flocculant> nope - not locking after inactivity
<flocculant> light-locker does that - but you can't get back in ;)
<ochosi> Unit193, bluesabre: ok, i have a pidgin emotes theme for you to package up :)
 * flocculant shall call ochosi watson for a while :)
<ochosi> as opposed to the status-icon theme this one can be cleanly installed without problems: https://github.com/shimmerproject/pidgin-elementary
<ochosi> also included a makefile for testing
<ochosi> (if you're interested, flocculant  or akxwi-dave)
<ochosi> flocculant: sounds like an interesting trade-off between the tewo lockers :)
<flocculant> ochosi: I would of course - but pidgin is something I never use - in fact I remove it so it cuts out pointless updates
<flocculant> ochosi: ha ha :)
<ochosi> bbl, gotta get off that train
<flocculant> cya
#xubuntu-devel 2017-01-15
<a1fa> flocculant: thanks for confirming the bug
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 17.04 - i386 - i386 built.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 17.04 - amd64 - amd64 built.
<ochosi> evening everyone
<knome> hello sir
<ochosi> how's everything?
<knome> that's a broad question
<knome> so i'll just say
<knome> everything is as everything is
<knome> so xangua was mentioning doing some OEM installations with xubuntu
<knome> i know we don't support that yet, but we really should look at it
<knome> it would need testing, so we'll need to convince akxwi-dave (and probably flocculant too)
<ochosi> what specifically would need testing?
<knome> if we enable the OEM installation, we should make sure the OEM setup works
<knome> do you know what that does?
<knome> or in general what i'm talking about?
<knome> s/enable/tell we support/
<knome> (that's a real question, i don't know if you are familiar with it or not)
<ochosi> not really familiar with it
<knome> ok, so with OEM, person A technically installs xubuntu, but the choose the OEM option
<knome> at this point they usually give out the system to somebody else, because...
<knome> when person B opens the computer, they get the "first boot" questions like "who are you" etc.
<knome> that data is then used to actually set up the system, the first user etc.
<knome> (as a sidenote, there's also a possibility to show a (different) "installer" slideshow for person B)
<knome> so what would need testing is that if the OEM installer (that person B uses) is able to set up things correctly
<knome> because obviously, person A (who is often the tech-minded person here, while person B definitely isn't) can't check that
<knome> because then they'd essentially do the OEM setup as well, so they might just as well install directly
<knome> i'm pretty sure you can set some bit to make the OEM install run again, but that still doesn't solve our problem
<knome> the issue xangua was hitting is that some locales weren't set correctly
<knome> eg. he tried to install in spanish, but got the "kl" locale (kalaallisut) for time, for example
<knome> so the clock on the panel said something really weird
<knome> i'm pretty sure this particular issue isn't xubuntu-specific, but we should make sure it isn't, and that there aren't other issues that are
<knome> so practically this would help people who help set up systems for other people
<knome> not the regular user who installs for themselves
<knome> unless they're a bit weird like ubottu 
<knome> i mean Unit193 
<knome> (:
<Unit193> Never used OEM.
<knome> i didn't say you used OEM, i said you are weird
<knome> (:
<Unit193> OK, won't refute that part.
<ochosi> so basically OEM means you customize/prep the image for others..?
<knome> no
<knome> it means you'll install the system for them
<knome> and they only have to insert their user data
<knome> so what a computer repair shop could do
<Unit193> ochosi: Means that on first setup is when it asks you for user/host/language, not during install.
<Unit193> EG, when you buy a computer from the store.
<knome> exactly
<ochosi> right
<knome> like windows does
<ochosi> haven't set up windows in forever
<knome> but if that OEM installer part makes the locale fails
<ochosi> so i wouldn't know
<knome> then it's probably more harmful than helpful
<knome> so that's the reason we should do some OEM testing
<knome> that isn't arch dependent, so one good thing
<knome> but it should still be done more than once in a cycle
<knome> ochosi, re: custom images; we have that page for derivatives, so we could list stuff there
<knome> Unit193, isn't the documentation for creating custom images a bit bad generally?
<knome> or is it just confusing because it's "so hard"?
<ochosi> is it really that hard?
<ochosi> to be frank, i've never tried/cared
<knome> me neither
<knome> but aiui, the documentation is bad
<ochosi> but i may give it a shot now, may even need it at work
<knome> http://xubuntu.org/dev/derivatives/
<knome> we don't point to anything there
<knome> it would be useful/nice to have some kind of pointer to something that helps you remove the things we want you to remoev
<HiddenDjinn> knome: ok, i always follow this guide https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomizationFromScratch
<knome> HiddenDjinn, a quick recap: we're specifically discussing improving http://xubuntu.org/dev/derivatives/ to have at least some pointers to help remove the stuff we want derivatives to remove 
<knome> my problem with that page is that it is awfully long (which is probably fair), but more importantly, that it has the discussion in it
<knome> i'm an admin on that wiki so i could probably move the discussion away, but as i don't know much about the subject, i'm not sure if that would be wise
<knome> at least the "best advice" on the comments should be merged on the article itself
<knome> also, they talk about bugs in 12.04 and earlier - any of the releases mentioned there aren't supported soon
<knome> so it might need some cleaning up
<knome> also some specific notes for 10.04 and 9.04
<HiddenDjinn> knome: agreed, it needs cleaning up
<knome> i give all my support for doing that
<knome> can also help with wiki-technical things and act as an "authority" for acking to move the comments away from the page after the good things are merged in the article (if any)
<HiddenDjinn> knome: well, i'll take a look and mark what works and what needs to change about the guide if you like
<knome> that would be helpful - not just for us, but way more people
<knome> and thanks
<knome> and feel free to poke me here about it
<HiddenDjinn> i haven't made any paranoid liveusb's lately(paranoid being not trusting the data to be off my person at any time, therefore having a full system on a usb)
<knome> heh
<knome> i don't think that's a requirement on editing that page ;)
<HiddenDjinn> knome: but making one is a requirement for refining the process for others
<knome> sure
<HiddenDjinn> knome: i can do it with virtual machines, and get back to you on it
<knome> but you can edit the stuff that isn't related to that
<knome> and if you need help with paranoid stuff, refer to Unit193 
<knome> or krytarik 
<HiddenDjinn> btw, ttf-mscorefonts-installer isn't working properly in 16.04
<HiddenDjinn> i think the files it needs have been moved
<knome> i know...
<knome> not sure how maintains that package though
<knome> s/how/who/
<knome> sigh, don't try to listen at something while you type something completely different
<krytarik> How?  Who?  I'm confused!
<knome> krytarik, what's the news there? (:
<krytarik> True.
<HiddenDjinn> the maintainer seems to be the debian maintainer
<knome> yeah, likely synced directly from there
<HiddenDjinn> there's a workaround...
<HiddenDjinn> involves installing a new debian package in place of the ubuntu package
<knome> well, i'd just like to get the package itself fixed :)
<HiddenDjinn> anyways, i almost always build from the mini iso when building a new custom image
<HiddenDjinn> knome: agreed
<knome> Unit193, krytarik: could you pleeeease look at that, at least a bit? (:
<knome> eg. is a patch/updated thing on the way
<knome> or maybe there's a bug report
<HiddenDjinn> knome: there are bug reports
<HiddenDjinn> knome: i've seen that much
<knome> ok
<knome> have you seen anybody comment on one and saying they're doing something about it? :P
<HiddenDjinn> not yet
<knome> meh.
<Unit193> HiddenDjinn: ...Building off the non-live, debian-installer which debootstraps the system?
<HiddenDjinn> Unit193: i usually build off the live mini iso
 * Unit193 scrathes head.
<HiddenDjinn> mini remix, i think it's called
<Unit193> Huh, OK.
<HiddenDjinn> Unit193: i'm not good with remembering exact terms
<HiddenDjinn> Unit193: sorry
<Unit193> That's fine, I was just thinking of the mini iso in that case.
<HiddenDjinn> Unit193: i use ubuntu customization kit along with that to add packages i need or think i need
<Unit193> ochosi: So you're just asking due to the derivs page?
<knome> Unit193, he wanted to do his own remix/derivative
<knome> i asked for the derivs page
<Unit193> Ooooh, sounds "fun"
<HiddenDjinn> knome: hmmm...that means he wants to customize the list in ubiquity, right?
<knome> i don't know what ochosi wants to do
<knome> but the derivatives should technically do that
<knome> not sure if that's something that needs to be on the wiki page mentioned
<HiddenDjinn> knome: and, to make it easier to handle, for a custom mix(like to be installed on multiple systems), one would probably be best served by making a custom meta package, depending on all packages the person wants to install, as well as puts the custom config files in place at the end
<knome> maybe
<knome> but that's something for the derivatives to think for themselves
<HiddenDjinn> sorry, i've had a rough day, so i just came in a few minutes ago and took four shots due to said day before getting online
<knome> iu don't know what the policy for that is, but i'm pretty sure they don't get them uploaded to the ubuntu repositories
<knome> so it would be on the ISO only (unless they enabled their own repositories, which is a far stretch)
<HiddenDjinn> knome: right
<knome> anyway i'd say that's out of our scope, and the wiki page as well
<HiddenDjinn> knome: if it was recognized as a custom spin, wouldn't there be a package that installs it on a running system, not unlike ubuntustudio
<knome> Unit193 does something like that though
<Unit193> Not quite.
<knome> HiddenDjinn, officially recognized flavors are a different thing
<HiddenDjinn> knome: ok
<knome> we're talking about derivatives of flavors, specifically xubuntu
<knome> (and could be a derivative of ubuntu too)
<HiddenDjinn> knome: oh, the derivative iso/img would exist only on the iso, and maybe in a custom repo
<knome> yes
<knome> the former is often the case
<HiddenDjinn> knome: pardon my semi-drunkenness
<knome> no worries :)
<knome> custom repo's maybe, often PPA
<HiddenDjinn> knome: right
<knome> but again, that's a bit out of the scope for xubuntu
<HiddenDjinn> what's the difference between a ppa and a custom repo?
<knome> might be touching the wiki page scope a bit
<knome> the way i consider that is that PPA is just additional packages, custom repository is a full repository of all packages
<HiddenDjinn> yeah, so i can take a look at the wiki you pointed me to and see where it needs to be updated
<knome> but that's terminology; yes, PPA is also a custom repo
<Unit193> Personal Package Archive, generally tends to refer to one on LP.
<HiddenDjinn> that first red flag regarding jaunty is no longer relevant
<HiddenDjinn> i can say that right now
<HiddenDjinn> we don't support jaunty
<knome> in april, nothing regarding precise of before is relevant
<knome> that's kind of the easy part of the cleanup
<krytarik> knome: That's fixed in Zesty already, and will have to be SRU'd for the other ones - LP bugs 1607535 and 1651923.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1607535 in msttcorefonts (Ubuntu) "ttf-mscorefonts-installer 3.4+nmu1ubuntu2 fails to install core fonts" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1607535
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1651923 in apt (Ubuntu Yakkety) "apt https method decodes redirect locations and sends them to the destination undecoded." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1651923
<knome> another small thing is making all places where it says CD to say disc
<knome> krytarik, nice, thanks!
<krytarik> Sure.
<HiddenDjinn> knome: well, some of the references to precise are still valid with yackety(i think that's 16.04)
<knome> right, then that just needs updating
<knome> that's the harder part :)
<HiddenDjinn> xenial
<HiddenDjinn> also, there are portions of precise still supported until april
<knome> yes, that's why i said "in april" :)
<HiddenDjinn> knome: yeah...
<HiddenDjinn> knome: if you aren't easily offended, i'll /msg you what i first thought
<knome> not at all
<HiddenDjinn> anyways, when the site LETS me, i'll edit
<knome> :)
<HiddenDjinn> ok, i can see it again, so time to get virtualbox installed so i can test this
<knome> cool
#xubuntu-devel 2018-01-08
<JackFrost> bluesabre: [19:19:14] < wgrant> caraka: It's still probably a couple of days off, but hard to say.
<JackFrost> Ooooh.
<JackFrost> [ 4912.775707] xfce4-notifyd[1141]: segfault at 9 ip b6d9807d sp bf8292f0 error 4 in libc-2.26.so[b6d21000+1cf000]
<bluesabre> o.o
<ochosi> JackFrost: meh, is it reproducible at all?
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: thanks :)
<ochosi> knome, bluesabre: that's the status quo of the redone gtk3 part of gtk-theme-config
<ochosi> currently it requires sassc to be installed
<ochosi> and changing colors means regenerating the whole code
<ochosi> i hope i can get rid of that, but there are a lot of calculated colors based on the selected_bg_color
<ochosi> plus currently as you can see the _drawing.scss isn't final, it still does more than it should and highlights some stuff it shouldnt
<ochosi> but what's nice is that it also works with the dark theme variant
<ochosi> i'd say: it could be worse...
<knome> :)
<knome> that's always something
<ochosi> there are still some rough edges, so it's not even perfect with adwaita atm
<knome> and i have to go too
<knome> early morning tomorrow
<knome> and my throat hurts again :(
<knome> -->
<knome> (nighty)
<ochosi> nighty
<bluesabre> ochosi: where?
#xubuntu-devel 2018-01-09
<ochosi> bluesabre: i havent pushed it anywhere yet, it's just a prototype
<flocculant> bluesabre - marked us ready for artful.1
<pleia2> rebooting the dev server for the kernel patch
<pleia2> all good now :)
#xubuntu-devel 2018-01-10
<bluesabre> ochosi: was confused by "that's the status quo"
<bluesabre> flocculant: thanks :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: in case you're interested, many more changes to menulibre in the last day or so, changelog is now https://paste.ubuntu.com/26357452/
<bluesabre> flocculant: I feel pretty confident that it's in a release-ready state, hopefully you don't find another 100 or so issues ;)
<flocculant> bluesabre: :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: don't know if this is because bionic and all the ppa's ... but you'll be disliking me :(
<flocculant> https://paste.ubuntu.com/26358131/ for terminal log, https://streamable.com/wjeap
<bluesabre> flocculant: aaaaaah... that was just a test, right... glad you're testing, it's fixed :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: :)
<flocculant> knome: 17.04 eol blog post draft done if you could check that - figure publish after we know for sure that new 17.10 is live
<flocculant> bluesabre: some notes, not a dying terminal paste :p https://paste.ubuntu.com/26362185/
<bluesabre> flocculant: thanks! Pushed a fix for the surprise terminal output
#xubuntu-devel 2018-01-11
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: I'll check it out this evening - much too morningish right now 
<knome> flocculant, will we be pushing this out after the fixed ISOs?
<knome> flocculant, poked the article a bit
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 17.10 - i386 - i386 built.
<Unit193> â Lies.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 17.10 - i386 - i386 built.
<Unit193> Accurate.
<Unit193> â Lies â
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 17.10 - amd64 - amd64 built.
<bluesabre> flocculant: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~menulibre-dev/menulibre/master/revision/457 :}
<flocculant> knome: was my intention to do so - don't want to push people to 17.10 if the page still has the warning on it
<flocculant> bluesabre: :)
<flocculant> knome: also I guess if EOL slips a bit - then it's just us affected anyway
<knome> flocculant, yes, i guessed that and changed the wording to be more assuring for people
<knome> and i agree on the EOL slipping... it's not a huge thing
<flocculant> knome: read the poking - thanks
<flocculant> if I see artful is released before work in the morning - I'll publish, if not - either someone else can check and publish, or I'll look later
<knome> sure, thanks
<bluesabre> flocculant: hopefully there are no more bugs for you to find, the completed list is getting long https://launchpad.net/menulibre/+milestone/2.1.4 :)
<Unit193> So I looked and the new isos actually enable -updates globally, not just to pull in kernels.
<bluesabre> Unit193: Seems that is an unwanted thing?
<Unit193> No?  I did the mistake of presuming minimal change, so did that with Core. :P
<flocculant> bluesabre: will look in a bit at 'it' in the meantime does "  preventing subdirectories from leaving parent directories" mean that you can't make a sub-dir in an existing and then move it out? Given you said you have to  make a new dir in an existing one?
<flocculant> ok - I'm completely confused by how this is supposed to work :(
<flocculant> sigh
<flocculant> made a dir - made a launcher in an exsting dir cos it wouldn't create in the new one, moved the launcher into the new dir, deleted the new dir, the launcher went to end of the list - and I can't stop it telling me https://i.imgur.com/MxHai4L.png without killing menulibre
<flocculant> bluesabre: don't mean to be nitpicky here - but is there a simple way to make a new dir and launchers and then show it in the menu?
<flocculant> bluesabre: you might want to look here https://bluesabre.org/doku/doku.php?id=menulibre-docs
<flocculant> our docs link to smdavis - I assume you've a redirect
<knome> i think our website links to smdavis too
<flocculant> are not they they same thing?
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 17.10 - i386 - i386 built.
<knome> https://xubuntu.org/press/
<knome> is that docs?
<knome> :)
<knome> bbl
<flocculant> oh right - that redirects ok
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 17.10 - amd64 - amd64 built.
<bluesabre> flocculant: flocculant ah, that link should be https://wiki.bluesabre.org/doku.php?id=menulibre-docs
<bluesabre> flocculant: normally you create the new dir, click save, then add launcher, and it goes into the folder... and now I see that it just goes away
<bluesabre> man, everything is breaking
<bluesabre> flocculant: seems it's broken when doing that at the toplevel, if you create a subdir in a dir and add a launcher, things work
<Unit193> Ala http://paste.openstack.org/show/OrAsu9NwXdyIzR8JrpOx then.
<ochosi> bluesabre, knome: so regarding gtk-theme-config: there are a few rough edges to take off but what i can already say is that we'll need some ifs to support greybird *and* adwaita
<ochosi> and i'm not sure how well this will work for all other themes
<ochosi> the "problem" is that gtk3 theming has opened so many doors, made things so flexible, it's very hard to properly override the selected_bg_color correctly
<ochosi> so here's what i think is feasible:
<ochosi> a limited gtk-theme-config that works for greybird and adwaita, with limited functionality, so mostly changing the selected_bg_color and selected_fg_color (although the latter can be problematic, but we can try)
<ochosi> changing the panel color is also possible, but i'm not sure it's very meaningful as you can already change that through the panel anyway
<ochosi> and the menus, well, that's possible too, but tbh that part is fairly useless imho
<ochosi> if you all feel that it's terribly important we can try to get it done, but from my pov it would be the last step
<ochosi> i still need to clean up the code quite a bit more
<ochosi> but if anyone wants to test this i can push the crude prototype somewhere
<ochosi> oh, and as i mentioned before, we gain a dependency to sassc
<ochosi> but i may be able to get rid of that, not sure yet
<ochosi> it's not my top priority atm
<Unit193> I pressed buttons and stuff on the docs.
<bluesabre> thanks Unit193 
<bluesabre> flocculant: fixed that bug
<bluesabre> ochosi: soooo, do you want to do this or drop gtk-theme-config?
<Unit193> Unfortunatly, as much as the idea of it is nice, I think option 2 makes more sense.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: [bionic] r644 Update Sean's website location for menulibre and mugshot. (by Unit 193)
#xubuntu-devel 2018-01-12
<bluesabre> Unit193: yeah, I'm inclined to agree at this point
<krytarik> Me too, having seen how it failed at Numix earlier for those reasons.
<flocculant> knome bluesabre ochosi - 17.10.1 is released, cdimage starting to populate - not got time to do anything now
<flocculant> if you are in a rush - be my guest :p
<Unit193> So I should move them over from /pending/ and start seeding.
<flocculant> Unit193: core?
<Unit193> Yes sir.
<flocculant> if they're ok then yea if you want :)
<flocculant> I didn't want to be EOL blogging, then the website's not sorted and no iso's yet ;)
<Unit193> Well they boot, resolution is weird but vbox so what can you expect.
<Unit193> Ratios: 32/17 for i386/amd64
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> thanks for that stuff
<Unit193> (Every time I boot a VM, I lose more ram to xorg until I restart it. :/)
<flocculant> really? mine releases afaik
<Unit193> Yeeeah, it gets pretty bad.
<flocculant> :(
<ochosi> bluesabre: i can make the POC available so you can test and try as is. imo it's not too bad, definitely so much better than what we shipped with 17.xx
<ochosi> even without taking the adwaita/greybird diffs into account
<Unit193> Right now xorg is only sitting at 125M ram.
<flocculant> 85.4M resident here
<flocculant> hi ochosi 
<flocculant> and bye everyone - bbl
<Unit193> When it gets bad is idling at 600+M, no ff open or anything just xorg itself. :D
<Unit193> Byebye.
<flocculant> that's not fun then ;)
<flocculant> knome: updated the torrent links at getxubuntu
<flocculant> and the download page - changed the Latest reegular release blurb a bit - some mirrors haven't updated - or aren't going to
<flocculant> published the 17.01 EOL post - changed 17.10 to 17.10.1 there
<flocculant> don't know if we want to do a 17.10.1 release note there
<knome> flocculant, ta
<flocculant> np
<knome> flocculant, did you find the editing easy enough? i don't mean the wordpress editing, but the download page specifically...
<knome> with all the shortcodes and stuff
<flocculant> umm - I edited text on the actual download page - but editing the torrent links on the 17.10 release list page was easy enough
<knome> maybe we could link to the point release announcement just for the sake of it
<flocculant> now I know it's there ;)
<knome> good good
<knome> yep
<knome> again i plan to make the release stuff more "visible" on the admin
<flocculant> and ok - I'll do that now and you can give it look over 
<flocculant> oh hang on
<knome> i'm on my phone, but sure i can do a quick peek ;)
<flocculant> what do you mean link to the p.release announcement?
<flocculant> I was saying do a post specifically
<knome> oh
<knome> i'm probably just a bit lost
<flocculant> ok - I'll rewind
<knome> my brain thought the EOL post was .1 post
<knome> so ok, let me think
<flocculant> not that I particularly care, bit some flavours have done a release announce for .1
<flocculant> shall we?
<knome> i think it's just fair to say on the download page that the new ISOs have the fix
<flocculant> if so - I'll draft that
<knome> and we can drop that on the release page too
<flocculant> yup - asll the infra is done
<knome> though maybe not
 * knome shrugs
<knome> it's history
<knome> maybe ask pleia2 if she'd fancy a post :P
<flocculant> didn't want to say too much on the download page other than what I did - eg make sure if you've gone to mirror you actually have 17.10.1
<knome> yep
<knome> i don't mind either way: post or no post
<knome> and have to run now
<knome> bbl
<flocculant> cya later :p
<knome> thanks for taking care
<flocculant> np
<flocculant> pleia2 knome - 17.10.1 draft release post - we can either post or delete, can we though do the social media things regardless - I'll wait to do fb until I know if we have a post to link to or not
<pleia2> flocculant: having a look now
<pleia2> flocculant: since we're doing a post, I'm inclined to wrap it in with a Meltdown post
<pleia2> mind if I make a few edits?
<flocculant> pleia2: be my guest :)
<flocculant> I assume then that you'd like a post for the re-release :D
<pleia2> yeah, some important things to say
<flocculant> as long as none of them are =- this release was because meltdown :p
<pleia2> right
<flocculant> be wamdering off for a short bit in a few minutes - will check it when back
<flocculant> as long as I know you're happy with what you said - I'll publish when finished and ping you and Pasi for social things
<pleia2> k
<slickymasterWork> as long as you're at it pleia2, would it be terrible to ask you not to forget G+?
<slickymasterWork> thus covering all our media outlets
<flocculant> slickymasterWork: that's one of the social things ...
<flocculant> pleia2 does g (and twitter if needed) Pasi does twitter and I do fb :p
<pleia2> slickymasterWork: yeah, the problem was less G+ and more me ;)
<slickymasterWork> I know flocculant, but I think pleia2's the only one who has access
<slickymasterWork> lol, that's why I poked you about it
<slickymasterWork> ;)
<pleia2> (ochosi also does have access, happy to share with anyone else too if they want)
<pleia2> flocculant: ok, just added a quick sentence about it including Meltdown fix and the link to the USN
<pleia2> I'm thinking the social media can be something like 17.10.1 which includes fixes for the bios bug and meltdown
<flocculant> pleia2: it doesn't include it as such
<pleia2> it doesn't? that seems irresponsible :(
<flocculant> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2018-January/004263.html
<flocculant> iso was sorted before fixes for that landed - because 17.01 was about to go eol
<pleia2> grumble
 * pleia2 re-edit
<flocculant> it just needs an update/grade iirc
<flocculant> sorry - should have been a bit firmer about meltdown and said 'no meltdown/spectre talk'  :(
<flocculant> pleia2: if when you re-edit you're happy - publish it ;)
<pleia2> flocculant: it's early and brain is not braining, want to read real quick again?
<flocculant> link to https://insights.ubuntu.com/2018/01/12/meltdown-and-spectre-status-update/ instead perhaps
<flocculant> other than that - looks fine
<flocculant> biab 
<pleia2> ok
<pleia2> https://xubuntu.org/news/xubuntu-17-10-1-release/
<flocculant> thanks pleia2 :)
<pleia2> haven't socialed yet, pulled into work things, will soon
<flocculant> np - just doing fb now
<flocculant> and done
<pleia2> twitter done
<pleia2> and G+
<flocculant> our portuguese friend will be happy :p
<flocculant> pleia2: thanks :)
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> o7
<ochosi> bluesabre, knome, Unit193: what is definitely feasible is a greybird-theme-config
<bluesabre> hmm
<ochosi> bluesabre: wanna test it out though?
<flocculant> ochosi: if no-one else bites I will ;)
<bluesabre> ochosi: make it available and I'll have a go at it
<bluesabre> ochosi: and I actually like the idea of it being greybird-theme-config, we could do some things with that
#xubuntu-devel 2018-01-13
<dadu042> Hello I wish to warn about a serious issue (loop reboot after updates on 2018-01-13), I have a laptop on Xubuntu 17.10 (32 bits I think) used only for web browsing. Itâs a old HP 6730s (CPU Intel Celeron T1600). After one week without admin logging, I have logged in order to do some updates, automatic security updates occured because I could launch myself the updates, the OS asked me to reboot. Now every time I get on the GR
<dadu042> (my email: david.ducassou@   g.M.aiL.)
<dadu042> Note I use Xubuntu since 3 years on 3 PCs.
<dadu042_> Sorry I had to reboot, because the mouse on this PC (Ubuntu Mate ! 16.04.3 LTS) has gone crazy again. 
<dadu042_> From the GRUB menu, when going to âUbuntu advanced optionsâ, I can see that the current kernel version is  â4.13.0.25-genericâ . When selecting the previous kernel â4.13.0.21-genericâ I can run XubuntuÂ !.
<bluesabre> morning everyone
<dadu042> hi bluesabre. 
<bluesabre> hello dadu042 
<bluesabre> feel free to report a bug using "ubuntu-bug linux" so the kernel maintainers can get some eyes on the issues you're experiencing... none of us are particularly kernel-savvy
<dadu042> thanks bluesabre.  I have asked my question on  https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-meta/+question/663037
<dadu042> I will look at "ubuntu-bug linux"
<flocculant> dadu042: run ubuntu-bug linux in a terminal and it will do it's thing
<flocculant> bluesabre: morning :)
 * flocculant has a pink highlight in gtk3 :p
<bluesabre> morning flocculant 
<flocculant> seeded ~ 20 iso's since we released 17.10.1 
<dadu042> flocculant: thank you.
<flocculant> np
<dadu042> Je vois que plusieurs suggestions de traducitons en franÃ§ais du site web Xubuntu sont en attente de validation dans https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs
<dadu042> Etes vous au courant ?    Merci de faire suivre.   Et j'aimerais bien faire partie des validateurs (j'ai dÃ©jÃ  participÃ© Ã  traduire sous le pseudo  Yosha872 ).
<flocculant> dadu042: umm - English in here please
<dadu042> oops.
<dadu042> I see that many french translation are not yet validated ( https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs ). Are you aware ? it not please forward the info.  And I am interrested to be one of the validators for french (I already translate under the nickname Yosha872).
<knome> the xubuntu documentation translations and validations go through the ubuntu translators group, so you'll want to be in touch with the french subteam there
<knome> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-fr
<knome> http://doc.ubuntu-fr.org/ubuntu-l10n-fr
<knome> note that it's common that the content on these pages can be (very) old
<knome> ^ dadu042 
<krytarik> The issue reported by dadu042 earlier today is LP bug 1742933.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1742933 in intel-microcode (Ubuntu Bionic) "Regression in 2018-01-08 updates" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1742933
#xubuntu-devel 2018-01-14
<flocculant> knome: what's the latest on getting the art contest underway?
<knome> flocculant, still need that one testing day
<flocculant> mmm - ok :)
<knome> that'll likely be something wed-fri
<flocculant> rightio
<knome> or maybe tuesday could work as well
<flocculant> I'll be about post 1800 UTC all week I hope 
<flocculant> if needed
<knome> oki
<knome> that sounds good
<knome> something like 20UTC+ is likely for me
<flocculant> yup
<flocculant> so long as it's not post 2300UTC for me lol
<knome> heh
<flocculant> except Friday ofc
<knome> actually
 * flocculant wakes up ~0500
<knome> there's no reason why we couldn't run testing through the week
<knome> let me setup a test contest
<flocculant> and just let people pop by to test? 
<knome> yes
<flocculant> sounds best 
<knome> ok, we're go
<knome> just go to https://contest.xubuntu.org/ and the site should work as it would when the real contest is open
<knome> if anything nasty shows up, let me know
<knome> also feel free to try to do "nasty" submissions
<flocculant> there already :p
<knome> not nasty as in really nasty, but stuff like not logged in and/or not filling out the required fields and sending non-image files
<flocculant> yea 
<knome> i'm letting wp handle the upload so i'm not completely sure how it acts with non-image files
<flocculant> I understood :p
<knome> yup
<flocculant> Error handling the upload: Sorry, this file type is not permitted for security reasons.
<flocculant> for a non-image upload
<knome> huzzah
<flocculant> txt at least
<knome> we should try an svg upload
<knome> because that should be allowed...
<knome> though i understand it can be a bit problematic
<knome> i think we might need to poke wp's internal table of things it considers images 
<flocculant> fails on pdf's too
<flocculant> anyway
<knome> if it fails on X, it should fail on Y and Z too :)
<knome> as long as XYZ is not images
<knome> images should be .jpg .jpeg .png .gif
<knome> heyy, svg works
<flocculant> that's good
<flocculant> umm
<flocculant> do we want gifs>
<flocculant> ?
<knome> no, but wordpress allows them
<knome> if we have a winning gif submission, we can just ask the submitter if it's ok to convert
<flocculant> well jpg's work for sure :p
<knome> hmm
<knome> i can't vote
<knome> :)
<knome> fun
<knome> i wonder if that's because the contest is ope
<knome> n
<knome> no
<knome> interesting
<flocculant> why does logging in to contest take me to wp-admin?
<knome> it shouldn't
<knome> the url has a redirect
<knome> actually
<knome> it should take you to the real contest page
<knome> anyway, i'll look at it later
<knome> bbl, hf :)
<flocculant> yea - cya in the week
#xubuntu-devel 2019-01-08
<JackFrost> bluesabre: https://ftp-master.debian.org/new/xfce4-screensaver_0.1.3-1.html
<bluesabre> JackFrost: oh, that's unexpected :o
<guiverc> this is of likely no importance; but qa-test (live) of 19.04.  exploring my hdd I found gnumeric file, so loaded 'software', but cannot install 'gnumeric' - it sticks at installing 0%.   I can however install other things; just not that program.  I can install it from term.. can I ignore this, or do you want me to explore further (tomorrow; it's late my time)
<knome> bluesabre, JackFrost: ^ ?
<guiverc> it's noted in my qa-test comments; i'm shutting down & heading to bed.. i can retry tomorrow if helpful..
<JackFrost> knome: gnome-software = notme
#xubuntu-devel 2019-01-10
<flocculant> knome: can you lose me off the dev mailing list mods please :)
#xubuntu-devel 2019-01-11
<knome> flocculant, ack
<knome> flocculant, and done
<brainwash> yesterday I brought up bug 1801629 in ubuntu-devel, and it's now being worked on :)
<ubottu> bug 1801629 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Disco) "xubuntu-core needs to depend on cryptsetup and lvm2 or 'apt autoremove' will make a LUKS+LVM encrypted root partition non-bootable" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1801629
<ochosi> brainwash: cool, well done!
<ochosi> Spass: fyi, i fixed the issue in greybird which you reported over irc a few days ago: https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/commit/419bd33c50825c3e0b8d7e8f7f57ad08a6945ff0
<Spass> that's great, thanks :)
#xubuntu-devel 2019-01-12
<JackFrost> bluesabre: Hi.
<bluesabre> JackFrost: heya
<JackFrost> bluesabre: You feel like supporting xfce4-screensaver for 9months?  Should I sync from exp?
<bluesabre> JackFrost: certainly :)
<JackFrost> knome: Kvack.
<JackFrost> bluesabre: Oh sorry, done.
#xubuntu-devel 2019-01-13
<tracker7> Hi could someone help mr find a downloadable copy of xubuntu?
<tracker7> i cannot use the torrent
<JackFrost> The downloads page has links.
<JackFrost> Just have to pick the country.
<tracker7> thanks but i do not see the link for downloading only for the torrents
<JackFrost> eg http://mirror.us.leaseweb.net/ubuntu-cdimage/xubuntu/releases/18.04/release/xubuntu-18.04.1-desktop-amd64.iso
<JackFrost> http://mirror.us.leaseweb.net/ubuntu-cdimage/xubuntu/releases/18.04/release/ from here, since it looks like you're in the US.
<tracker7> thanks jack
<JackFrost> 'Welcome.
<tracker7> JOIN
<flocculant> knome: and thanks :)
#xubuntu-devel 2020-01-06
<brainwash> bluesabre: old version numbers here https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/ppa
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- Reminder: Next meeting chair is ochosi
#xubuntu-devel 2020-01-07
<JackFrost> bluesabre: May I poke you about catfish? :)
<bluesabre> JackFrost: yes, planning to do another point release in the next day or so to fix the new packaging issue
<JackFrost> OK, no pressure since you already have a lot going on. :)
<JackFrost> Oh hey, I presume there's no place you want Emery to report Xubuntu Core tests? :D
<bluesabre> Email hasn't been bad, but we could add the tests to the tracker instead
<JackFrost> Problem is that it's not official still, so I guess email will have to do.
<bluesabre> Yup
<bluesabre> Sure would be nice if there was >1 person as the gatekeeper
<bluesabre> Suppose I should start my 20.04 nagging at him for it
<JackFrost> I'm sorry you seem to get stuck with everything. :3
<JackFrost> Discarding from the mailing list: Subject: LiveFS xubuntu/focal/amd64 failed to build on 20200107
<bluesabre> Alrighty
<JackFrost> Did you want me to start funneling free experimental xfce 4.15 packages somewhere?
<JackFrost> Debian #925824
<ubottu> Debian bug 925824 in src:sgt-puzzles "sgt-puzzles: ftbfs with GCC-9" [Serious,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/925824
<flocculant> bluesabre JackFrost - doesn't have to be official for it to be on the tracker, they can be added - but they never ever reported to there even after being asked more than once - so probably not worth the bother
<ochosi> JackFrost: that'd be nice (4.15 packages)
<ochosi> i guess i need to work on getting more releases out though
<JackFrost> ochosi: Well I can pick them up as they go into Debian experimental, but they'd have to go *somewhere*.
#xubuntu-devel 2020-01-10
<ochosi> !team | reminder - team meeting in 5!
<ubottu> reminder - team meeting in 5!: akxwi-dave, bluesabre, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<JackFrost> Wait what?
<kryten> Same here.. :3
<bluesabre> Firing up my laptop now
<JackFrost> pleia2: Hello!  We've got an 'unsubscribe' message pending in queue, can you just go ahead and ubsub the email address?
<JackFrost> If you use listadmin, listadmin --remove-member #EMAIL xubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com  should do.
<ochosi> #startmeeting Xubuntu Community Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Jan 10 23:01:28 2020 UTC.  The chair is ochosi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<ochosi> #chair JackFrost 
<meetingology> Current chairs: JackFrost ochosi
<ochosi> #chair bluesabre 
<meetingology> Current chairs: JackFrost bluesabre ochosi
<bluesabre> o/
<ochosi> hi and welcome everyone!
<ochosi> #info Agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<ochosi> #topic Open action items
<ochosi> we carried over nothing from the last meeting
<ochosi> and since nobody added any AIs since then i guess we have none..?
<bluesabre> I think a lot of folks didn't know about the meeting
<bluesabre> I saw a mention of it, and it was on the calendar :D
<ochosi> tonight?
<ochosi> i sent out the usual mail and put it on the calendar
<ochosi> and on the wiki page
<JackFrost> Yep, I didn't.  So I guess now might be a good time to ask what 4.15 has in store for us, or specifically, what we're going to do with it.
<bluesabre> I feel like I didn't see the mail
<ochosi> hmm
<bluesabre> Anyhoo, we're here now :D
<JackFrost> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2020-January/thread.html ?
<ochosi> wtf
<ochosi> https://imgur.com/0b5Vigf.png
<ochosi> i didn't receive a rejection mail or anything
<ochosi> and i didn't check the archive, because... why would i?
<ochosi> :/
<bluesabre> lol
<ochosi> soooorry (i guess)
<bluesabre> Not you, or us, so all good
<ochosi> but i'm happy i managed to schedule a time/day that works :D
<ochosi> so yeah, let's skip ahead and talk about 4.16
<ochosi> or 4.15
<ochosi> #topic Updates and announcements
<JackFrost> (I also didn't discard your mail from the list!)
<ochosi> #info Xfce 4.15 is progressing well and there are a few more releases around the corner
<ochosi> since 4.16 will switch to client side decorations for XfceTitledDialog that begs the question whether we go s/mate/gnome in our application set (evince,..)
<ochosi> also, gtk-dialog-use-header will be enabled by default upstream
<bluesabre> #info The new dark theme, Greybird-dark was just released
<ochosi> which means all GtkDialog based windows should use CSD
<bluesabre> Working on getting that packaged :)
<ochosi> cool
<ochosi> so regarding what we're going to do with 4.15, i'd slap it into a PPA for testing
<ochosi> and then think about it again once 20.04 is released
<ochosi> if you want a sneak preview (ahead of my upcoming blog post about this), here's the xfce settings manager in the new layout: https://imgur.com/sj98Abn.png
<ochosi> so visually it's not a big departure
<ochosi> or a standalone config dialog: https://imgur.com/5nRhS6H.png
<ochosi> JackFrost: does that answer your question?
<JackFrost> Well not really, I'd guess the specific question is ppa:xubuntu-dev/experimental ?
<ochosi> yeah, i guess so
<bluesabre> Sure, I think that's fine
<JackFrost> OK, I'll only be picking them up as they hit Debian experimental this time.
<bluesabre> Makes sense :)
<ochosi> does debian experimental pick up devel releases?
<ochosi> (sry, i'm rather ignorant there)
<JackFrost> Depends on if corsac feels like it, but usually yeah.
<bluesabre> Other news from the theming perspective, the Yaru folks might have a surprise for us soon (nothing more to say about that for now)
<ochosi> enigmatic
<bluesabre> Saw a 4.15 thing get uploaded to debian the other day
<ochosi> is it good, bad or ugly? (the surprise)
<bluesabre> Good
<bluesabre> :)
 * ochosi keeps his fingers crossed
<JackFrost> ...What I'd think of as 'good' or what everyone else does? :P
<bluesabre> Well
<ochosi> :'D
<bluesabre> That remains to be seen
<bluesabre> ;)
<ochosi> okok, i'll stop biting my nails and we can move on
<ochosi> unless you want to know more regarding 4.15
<JackFrost> Nope.
<ochosi> k
<bluesabre> Got anything planned for 4.14.x?
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> that's what i would move on to
<ochosi> #subtopic Xubuntu 20.04 Planning
<JackFrost> gtk-dialog-use-header doesn't really look like a user setting, but glade or whatnot, right?
<ochosi> it's a user setting
<ochosi> you can try with xfconf-query if you want
<ochosi> (i can paste the command)
<JackFrost> AH, fantastic.  Thanks.  I'll :x now.
<ochosi> it'll be part of my blog post ;)
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> the only agenda item i added could go here or into discussion
<ochosi> it's about checking up on 4.14.x releases
<ochosi> so i would suggest we spend a few minutes to go around the most important components and see if we want a point release :)
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> and then info it
<bluesabre> I think xfce4-settings has a few fixes waiting in it
<ochosi> #info xfce4-panel 4.14.2 shall be released shortly
<bluesabre> And xfce4-taskmanager drops the stuck floating legend, fixing one of our lp bugs
<ochosi> #info xfce4-settings 4.14.2 shall be released shortly
<bluesabre> xfce4-weather-plugin has some bugs I'm aware of that I need to fix and release
<ochosi> #info xfdesktop 4.14.2 shall be released shortly
<ochosi> (some of those means we need to bug others, other releases can be done by me or sean)
<bluesabre> xfce4-screensaver has a few newly reported bugs with patches
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> #info xfce4-session 4.14.1 shall be released shortly
<bluesabre> nice
<ochosi> so there are quite a few
<bluesabre> JackFrost: aware of any critical releases?
<ochosi> even though the powermanager has only commit, it's a nice one
<JackFrost> Nope.
<bluesabre> Got another catfish release I'll hopefully land this weekend
<bluesabre> We might also need to revisit our docs a bit this cycle
<bluesabre> Oh
<ochosi> i thnk that's about it from the core components
<bluesabre> And the wallpaper contest
<bluesabre> Sorry, brain dumping :)
<bluesabre> ochosi: yeah, can't think of others that have anything major pending
<ochosi> docs and wallpaper contest are both fine, but i have to admit i probably won't have time for either
<ochosi> i mean helping with the selection, yes, that's just one session
<ochosi> but setting it all up and communicating it, probably not
<bluesabre> Once I have a handle of the requirements, I'll put a schedule together
<ochosi> k
<ochosi> anything else you would like to discuss in planning?
<bluesabre> xubuntu-wise, I think that's all I have
<ochosi> k, same here
<ochosi> #topic Discussion
<bluesabre> hi
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> :)
<bluesabre> So, we should probably look at the release schedule
<ochosi> we had one point we may carry over from last time, which is announcing that we need people to work on our website (since knome isn't around a lot)
<ochosi> bluesabre: wanna take an action item?
<ochosi> :>
<bluesabre> Sure
<ochosi> and yeah, then let's look at the schedule
<ochosi> #action bluesabre to send an email to the xubuntu / xubuntu-devel list about looking for a new web lead (someone who doesn't hate wordpress)
<meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre to send an email to the xubuntu / xubuntu-devel list about looking for a new web lead (someone who doesn't hate wordpress)
<bluesabre> Release schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FocalFossa/ReleaseSchedule
<bluesabre> Feature freeze at the end of February
<ochosi> 2/27 - Feature Freeze / Debian Import Freeze
<bluesabre> We're not doing too bad for time :)
<ochosi> seems like the next relevant date
<ochosi> since we're not really planning any new features so far, i guess UI freeze may be more relevant even
<ochosi> 3/19 - User Interface Freeze
<bluesabre> Xfce 4.14 has been pleasantly stable, so there's not a lot of things to worry about adding or fixing
<ochosi> indeed
<bluesabre> Unless there's tons of broken stuff and nobody's reporting bugs
<ochosi> :D
<bluesabre> Definitely possible.
<ochosi> some people are reporting bugs, and i actually fix some of them every once in a while
<ochosi> the good thing is most of them also affect 4.15 so i have extra motivation to fix them anyway
<bluesabre> good dev ochosi
<ochosi> we're in a much better place than with 4.12
<ochosi> the porting made bug fixing for older releases totally unpleasant
<ochosi> and also felt more like a waste of time
<bluesabre> What's the package that we use for the color profiles? Has it been updated for focal?
<ochosi> ah
<ochosi> i think so
<ochosi> i think i even asked JackFrost to put it in a PPA for me and i tested it
<ochosi> the main issue with it is gone (100%cpu and multiple daemons spawned)
<JackFrost> But did you close the resulting bug? ;)
<ochosi> i thought you did :p
<ochosi> i can take a look...
<bluesabre> #chair kryten
<meetingology> Current chairs: JackFrost bluesabre kryten ochosi
<kryten> <3
<franksmcb> I'm sorry to interrupt the flow. I've done a bunch of ISO testing without any issues presenting themselves.
<pleia2> thanks franksmcb :)
<bluesabre> hey franksmcb!
<JackFrost> LP 1845800
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1845800 in xiccd (Ubuntu) "xiccd consumes 100% CPU" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1845800
<bluesabre> Thanks for the testing :)
<franksmcb> Howdy bluesabre
<franksmcb> No worries, if there is something specific you want tested for please reach out 
<ochosi> #chair pleia
<meetingology> Warning: Nick not in channel: pleia
<meetingology> Current chairs: JackFrost bluesabre kryten ochosi pleia
<ochosi> #chair pleia2
<meetingology> Current chairs: JackFrost bluesabre kryten ochosi pleia pleia2
<ochosi> JackFrost: closed it now: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xiccd/+bug/1845800
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1845800 in xiccd (Ubuntu) "xiccd consumes 100% CPU" [Undecided,Fix released]
<bluesabre> franksmcb: definitely, will do
<ochosi> we can link that to our roadmap actually
<ochosi> didn't we once vote on installing a color emoji font? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-meta/+bug/1766976
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1766976 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Please consider installing fonts-noto-color-emoji by default" [Low,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> ochosi: yeah, didn't get enough votes for a decision iirc
<ochosi> oh wow, only 2 people voted..?
<ochosi> no, 5
<ochosi> isnt 5 enough?
<bluesabre> Not sure, internet connection really bad right now
<bluesabre> Might have been 10 members at that time
<JackFrost> With regards to post-20.04, we'll have to look for project leads again. :P
<ochosi> do we need a new council?
<JackFrost> We will post-20.04
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> good to know
<bluesabre> Maybe we'll have some new faces apply :)
<ochosi> that'd be nice
<JackFrost> Seems like nothing else?
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> i'm done
<ochosi> i'd move on to doing those xfce releases i mentioned earlier...
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> I have nothing else
<bluesabre> kryten, pleia2?
<ochosi> franksmcb?
<pleia2> nothing from me
<kryten> Noope!
<ochosi> #action JackFrost to schedule the next team meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: JackFrost to schedule the next team meeting
<bluesabre> Easy to escape with a nick change ;)
<ochosi> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Jan 10 23:56:20 2020 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2020/xubuntu-devel.2020-01-10-23.01.moin.txt
<ochosi> indeed
<bluesabre> thanks ochosi
<bluesabre> bbl
<ochosi> yw and sorry again for messing up the announcement...
<pleia2> sorry for being late, I'm in Australia this week and time is confusing
<JackFrost> Haha. :D
<pleia2> :)
<ochosi> ok, minutes are up
<ochosi> pleia2: i hope you're ok with all the fires and stuff..
<pleia2> yeah, I just got in yesterday and I'm up in Brisbane, no fires here
#xubuntu-devel 2020-01-11
<ochosi> good
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-session 4.14.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-session-4-14-1-released-tp57042.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-settings 4.14.2 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-settings-4-14-2-released-tp57044.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-panel 4.14.2 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-panel-4-14-2-released-tp57046.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
<amerigena> I just downloaded and installed the latest Focal AMD64 build. Works well, except that it doesn't display the letter combination fi correctly.
<amerigena> This seems like a bug, but I don't know how it would be reported.
<amerigena> And this doesn't occur in all cases. It's strange.
<amerigena> It seems to mainly occur with lowercase fi combinations. Uppercase leading characters are unaffected - on this install at least.
<amerigena> I.e Firefox, File System desktop icon.
<amerigena> But Libreoffice - only the O, c and e are displayed either in the Whiskermenu entry, or in the titlebar when the application is opened. 
<amerigena> Same behavior in the .desktop files in /usr/share for Network Configuration - f and i are missing. Catfish File Search - f and i are missing from Catifsh, File is unaffected because it's a capital Fi leading character combination.
<amerigena> Advanced Network Configuration, same
<amerigena> Color Profiles, all Libreoffice .desktop files, Notifications, etc.
<amerigena> System is otherwise perfectly normal and functional.
<TJ-> maybe t
<TJ-> it's a font kerning issue?
<amerigena> Don't know
<amerigena> Don't even know how to classify it
<amerigena> Just seems like an obvious bug of an unobvious type
<TJ-> I seem to recall seeing some options to control font rendering but don't know where precisely - one of the settings applets I think
<TJ-> Hmmm Appearance > Fonts > Rendering > Hinting maybe?
<amerigena> Very good. Changing font should have been the first thing I thought of.
<amerigena> So it's not an OS level issue, it's a Noto Sans Regular rendering issue.
<amerigena> Liberation Sans displays everything normally.
<amerigena> Toggling back to Noto Sans at any font size recreates problem.
<TJ-> nice find!
<TJ-> what hinting level is set?
<TJ-> if set to "None" does that stop it happening?
<amerigena> TJ : changing hinting has no effect. Same with any level of antialiasing / hinting.
<amerigena> I've tried Liberation, Roboto and Gillius. All work fine. Any Noto Sans variation does not - Regular, Bold or Italic.
<amerigena> Right now I'm using Sans Regular with default antialiasing / hinting
#xubuntu-devel 2020-01-12
<bluesabre> Regarding what amerigena described, there's some font library that broke that with an update the other day, but it resolves itself after rebooting
