#ubuntu-uk 2011-06-20
<DJones> Morning all
<shauno> howdy
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<AlanBell> morning
<selinuxium> Morning AlanBell  o/
<selinuxium> morning all   o/
<MooDoo> hello all
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning earthlings (and other types)
<brobostigon> morning TheOpenSourcerer :)
<MooDoo> brobostigon: morning :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> How are you brobostigon?
<MooDoo> popey: hows the car?
<brobostigon> TheOpenSourcerer: not so hot, my nose is really bad, and my hay fever is playing up, and i have alot to do today. and you?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'm OK in myself thanks. Quite a bit to do and have to run my son back and forth from the dentist.
<brobostigon> good luck, dont wear self out.
<bigcalm> Does said dentist use open molar?
<AlanBell> there is also openERP dental
<AlanBell> http://www.valuedecision.com/dental-openerp-project/
<cbx33> Hey there peeps
<cbx33> What do people generally use for video editing at the moment on ubuntu?
<AlanBell> openshot
<MooDoo> pitivi
<cbx33> I used to be a Cinelerra kinga guy as it seemed to be the only one that was pretty full featured
<brobostigon> blender
<cbx33> brobostigon, hardcore!!!
<popey> MooDoo: which one? :D
<cbx33> pre 2.5?
<MooDoo> popey: your hire car :)
<cbx33> hey popey !
<brobostigon> cbx33: the standard natty version,it hs took along time to learn.
<cbx33> yeh I can imagine!
<cbx33> I did look at the a while ago
<cbx33> when I was doing the pr0g80X.vid vidcast
<brobostigon> ah
<AlanBell> brobostigon: got any examples of stuff you have done in blender?
<brobostigon> AlanBell: let me dig,
<oimon> is there any truth in the story that bitcoin is actually an AMD marketing ploy, and they wrote the software (to be 10x faster on inferior AMD cards), and injected tens of thousands of $ into the market to create the initial fake demand?
<cbx33> http://blip.tv/pr0g80xvid/pr0g80x-vid-episode0-4-966912 - that was cinelerra with blender for the overlays
<AlanBell> oimon: no
<oimon> no thats cos i made it up. would be funny though
<cbx33> oimon, good story though
<popey> MooDoo: yeah, its fine
<MooDoo> popey: obviously the 5 times you beeped wasn't enough, 6 and it would of been fine ;D
<oimon> modern bumpers can withstand impact of up to 15 mph
<oimon> as i discovered when some fool drove into the back of me at a roundabout
 * MooDoo is a motorbike rider......
<brobostigon> AlanBell: http://ubuntuone.com/p/1Rh/
<popey> MooDoo: clearly
<popey> MooDoo: I went a bit nuts
<MooDoo> popey: not surprised, still get their details though?
<bigcalm> Protective of your new mota
<oimon> https://github.com/MrMEEE/bumblebee/commit/a047be85247755cdbe0acce6#diff-1
<popey> MooDoo: took a photo of their numberplate
<popey> bigcalm: hire car
<bigcalm> Ah
<bigcalm> Ne-bother then ;)
<oimon> i lol'd at the bumblebee fail, then saw the comments :)
<popey> well, i dont want her claiming I hit her
<bigcalm> popey: fair enough
<bigcalm> I had an old man roll back into me. Lightest of touches I'm sure. My dad was with me and he seemed more peed off than I was
<dogmatic69> o/
<dogmatic69> MooDoo: what bike you got?
<MooDoo> dogmatic69: suzuki bandit 600
<dogmatic69> nice
 * dogmatic69 has a rvf 400
<dogmatic69> honda ^
<MooDoo> dogmatic69: yes it's a bit of a change, my previous one was a kwak zx6 [had to sell it]
 * TheOpenSourcerer used to have a BSA C15 SuperSport (about 25 yrs ago)
<MooDoo> nice
<dogmatic69> TheOpenSourcerer: about 25 yrs ago i had a http://tinyurl.com/3qfdbvr
<TheOpenSourcerer> My first bike was a Garelli something or other.
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: ooh, you might know this, then - what's teh difference between the rvf and the vfr? It is basically the way-up-ness of the forks?
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: rvf is newer, last production about 96' iirc
<dogmatic69> rvf is nc35, vfr is nc29 and lower
<dogmatic69> rvf had upsidown forks and single swing arm, it was also the first time a company took tech direct from moto gp to a road bike
<dogmatic69> rvf was only ever released in japan so any one you get in any other country is a 'gray import'
<dogmatic69> they are pretty much collectors status, can fetch 5k for a nice one
<BigRedS> ahhh, so there's a bunch of subtleties, too
<BigRedS> And, yeah, they do seem a bit more than a vfr :) I've a couple of mates after VFRs, keep stumbling across these mythical RVFs with funny-looking forks :)
<selinuxium> BigRedS dogmatic69, I had a NC30 for years... Lovely bike... :)
<MooDoo> i want a zx12 next, ooo look a flying pig :)
<dogmatic69> selinuxium: nice
<BigRedS> selinuxium: yeah, I'm getting more and more sold ona  vfr (800, though) through helping these guys find some
<BigRedS> but I think I'd miss the comfort of the pan :) An ST1300 seems to be the logical choice for my next bike :)
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: rvf > vfr
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: well, you would say that :)
<dogmatic69> nope, its a fact
<BigRedS> haha
<dogmatic69> newer bike, newer technology, faster, etc
<selinuxium> BigRedS, dogmatic69: I have a Triumph Sprint 900 and a Kwac ZZR400 atm...
<BigRedS> but, yeah, that's what I heard, I just couldn't find a list of what was better. And theyr'e a bunch more expensive than a same-condition-and-age vfr
<dogmatic69> never been a fan of kawa, eventually im going to get a duke
<selinuxium> dogmatic69, never been a fan of duke's... Rattly things...
<selinuxium> :)
<BigRedS> I've become such a honda fanboi...
<selinuxium> Suzuki is my thing, but spent most my time on Honda..
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: my uncle got one of these the a few months back http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00838/motoring-graphics-2_838553a.jpg
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: oooh. Though my things is more, uh, 'boring' bikes
<BigRedS> I've just ordered a bunch of bits for my CX :)
<selinuxium> dogmatic69, Beautiful looking bike..
<BigRedS> is that the blade or a 600?
<selinuxium> Still want a TL100r or a Gixer 6/750/thou...
<BigRedS> all bikes should have V engines
<hoover> good morning
<BigRedS> g'morning!
<bigcalm> Good afternoon hoover
<hoover> hey biggie
<hoover> anyone heard of / evaluated nimbula?
<daev> could someone please assist me with a small problem i'm having? I'm running 11.04 x86_64 but cpu doesn't flag long-mode.
<popey> daev: whats the problem?
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> popey: you need to get rid of all cars that should solve your issues dude, that or stop drawing targets on them :)
<popey> clearly
 * AlanBell prefers Pendulum's new car
<AlanBell> https://foursquare.com/colona13/checkin/4dfe2c14fa7628b893eb49c5?s=SUFrnLR7ff39D4PmKZdDQHabazw
<bigcalm> Is there a doctor in the house?
<gord> i can pretend to be a doctor
<popey> You can trust me, I'm a doctor.
<bigcalm> Grandmother has had only fruit squash drinks (little of) and pain killer patches for several weeks now. Amazingly she is still alive. How long can the body really survive in such a state?
<daev> popey, I'm running Ubuntu 11.04 x86_64 on an AMD Turion II. I now want to install a guest os on vbox but it's imforming me that the cpu doesn't support long-mode. I checked $uname -a and everything ok. I also checked $grep --color=always -iw lm /proc/cpuinfo and it doesn't flag 'long-mode' anywhere. is there a way of getting vbox to recognise it's 64bit capable?
<davmor2> popey: that line reminds me of Sledgehammer "Trust me I know what I'm doing!"
<DJones> popey: Thats what Harold Shipman said isn't it
<AlanBell> daev: yes, you need to tell it the OS you are installing is ubuntu 64 bit
<danfish> bigcalm: the quack has arrived :)
<czajkowski> bigcalm: some of those drinks contrain all the nutrients a person needs
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski 
<czajkowski> meh
<daev> AlanBell, do you know how i can tell it? Is it a setting inside vbox that will virtualise a 64bit cpu?
<MooDoo> morning czajkowski davmor2 my fave people :D
<AlanBell> daev: when you create a new VM it asks you what OS type you want to install
<davmor2> MooDoo: Creep!
<AlanBell> you want linux, and "Ubuntu (64 bit)"
<daev> AlanBell, that's amazing. I can't believe i've overlooked this. I will check now, uno momento
<AlanBell> if something has gone wrong then you might not see all the 64 bit options - have come across this, don't know what causes it
<oimon> lol @ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/advice/8582895/What-can-replace-an-Amstrad-E-miler.html
<MooDoo> davmor2: czajkowski no i'm no creep, i just love you both #spreadthelove ;)
<MooDoo> lol
<davmor2> MooDoo: I repeat "Creep!" ;)  Morning dude good to see you in a good mood on a monday not like some mardy people looking at no one in particular czajkowski  :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: i've had lots of coffee, i'll be on the normal downer this afternoon, and the lovely czajkowski isn't grumpy she's just overworked and needs a good old pamper :)
 * MooDoo shakes his head
<daev> AlanBell, thanks. It seems that was my problem all along. I didn't check I'd selected to virtualise a 64bit os. I do have a new problem now. Vbox has informed me that AMD-V is enabled but not operational. It wants me to check in BIOS but i know i don't have that option and that it's always enabled by default. Any ideas
<AlanBell> dunno, I don't have AMD
<daev> k cheers
<dogmatic69> what is the crontab to run every 30 min? 30 * * * * *
<bigcalm> 0,30
<bigcalm> 30 will just run at 30 mins past the hour
<dogmatic69> so 0,30 * * * * sudo ~/backup >> ~/backup.log
<bigcalm> You might be better off using absolute paths in cronjobs
<dogmatic69> kk
<dogmatic69> and the time was good for every 30 min?
<bigcalm> Yes
<bigcalm> Well
<dogmatic69> will that be at x:00 and x:30
<bigcalm> Try it with something that won't blow up in your face
<bigcalm> Yes
<popey> also
<popey> 12/30 * * * * ...
<popey> actually forget that :D
<dogmatic69> what is that?
<dogmatic69> so what whould it be for every hour?
<dogmatic69> 0 0,1 * * * ...
<X3N_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cron#Examples
<oimon> often i receive word .docs which are forms i need to fill in. when opened in openoffice, the user entry areas have dark grey backgroundd - anyone know how to remove it?
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: every hour = 0 * * * * ("the 0th minute of every hour")
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: man 5 crontab
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: it has lots of examples
<dogmatic69> 0 0/1 * * * according to wiki
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: no..
<daubers> Morning
<dogmatic69> :/
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: 0 * * * * = on the 0th minute, of every (*) hour of every (*) day of every (*) month, do this
<dogmatic69> k
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: man 5 crontab, really.
 * dogmatic69 is
<hoover> do you need medical assistance, biggie?
 * hoover is late to the party, as usual 8-P 
<daubers> Nokia N8's are rubbish. Can't setup an email account unless it's with one of the big 4 providers
<BigRedS> that seems astoundingly dumb
<popey> daubers: it doesnt do imap?
<daubers> popey: it doesn't let you tell it to do imap. If the domain doesn't end in gmail.com, hotmail.com, ovi.com or yahoo.com it assumes you want mail for exchange and only give syou options for that
<popey> hahaha
<popey> Who makes this phone again?
<daubers> Nokia
<popey> Who?
<popey> etc
<daubers> :p
<daubers> Luckily I've not paid for it. It's a loan from the bottom of someones drawer after my palm exploded :(
<BigRedS> ovi.com is one of the "big four"?
<daubers> BigRedS: It's nokias service, so it _must_ be!
<shauno> I think ovi is nokia's.  so they think/pretend it is
<popey> http://discussions.nokia.co.uk/t5/Messaging-Email-and-Browsing/N8-E-Mail-Imap-Setup-Impossible/m-p/781664#M29270
<BigRedS> ah yeah
<daubers> popey: yeah, just read that. I've tried all those things and can't get to the "Other" option
<popey> suggests it is possible
<bigcalm> hoover: not me :)
<daubers> Pile of poo :) Might just have to put up with no email for a week and a bit until I get my galaxy
<bigcalm> Hotmail via exchange has stopped working on Hayley's Wildfire, most irritating
<popey> golly, the podcast is going to hit 1.5 million downloads soon
<MartijnVdS> cool
<daubers> popey: if you had a pound for every podcast downloaded, this time next week you'd be millionaires!
<popey> heh
<popey> wonder how many downloads we'd get at 1GBP/download/ep
<popey> very feww I'd imagine
<daubers> Youd probably get more with 0.50GBP/download/ep
<daubers> And still have 750k to show for it by now :p
<dogmatic69> what is the best way to backup mysql without using a pw? or having the pw in all sorts of bash files
<dogmatic69> currently i got http://bin.cakephp.org/view/187050926
<shauno> okay, when popey starts to show up on my non-linuxy mailing lists, I really start to wonder if I'm seeing things.  he's everywhere!
<daubers> shauno: All your email are belong to popey?
<popey> shauno: bbc backstage?
<shauno> ja
<popey> :D
<popey> been on it agaes
<popey> *ages
<shauno> I seriously thought my filters had broken at first.  popey doesn't belong in this folder!
<popey> heh
 * AlanBell contemplates fibre
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: is there anything wrong with that? Looks reasonable
<jpds> AlanBell: Nothing like a good cereal to start the day.
<popey> \o/ fibre
<Laney> backstage is closed?
<popey> nope
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: having the pw in the bash file
<BigRedS> well, it needs to be somewhere
<BigRedS> or you have an account with no password
<shauno> I think they tried/threatened, but did a really bad job of burying it
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: the aws ubuntu images dont need a pw
<BigRedS> but sticking it in a file only readable by root is probably better than a user with no password
<dogmatic69> you can just sudo and do what ever
<BigRedS> Ah, they're probably just accounts with no password, then. Or something voodoo based...
<dogmatic69> ye its has something in suder or what ever it is
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Andy Loughran] Choosing a CMS - http://zrmt.com/2011/06/16/choosing-a-cms/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Andy Loughran] Birmigham and Solihull Rugby [Sponsorship Opportunity] - http://zrmt.com/2011/06/17/birmigham-and-solihull-rugby-sponsorship-opportunity/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Stuart Langridge] The laptop I want, 2011 edition - http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2011/06/20/the-laptop-i-want-2011-edition
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: sudo?
<BigRedS> then it's likely to be a passworded account, just with the password in a file that only root can read
<BigRedS> like debian-sys-maint
<dogmatic69> ye, the file that manages sudo
<dogmatic69> no
<BigRedS> but I thought that didn't have the privileges to back things uop
<dogmatic69> ubuntu  ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD:ALL
<jpds> Oh secure.
<shauno> heh, the 'red carpet' approach ;)
<dogmatic69> ye
<dogmatic69> this is amazons idea
<BigRedS> aren't they sort-of disposable instances, though?
<BigRedS> bring up, run task, destroy
<dogmatic69> for some people
<BigRedS> oh, I thought that was the ubiquitous use-case
<dogmatic69> we use it for normal hosting type stuff
<BigRedS> Ah, perhaps amazon just assume it's more ephermal than that
<BigRedS> or they can't be arsed to field questions from people not used to privilege separation
<JGJones> BigRedS, if you get the free tier - you basically get a free webhost for a year
<BigRedS> there's a free flavour of aws?
<shauno> http://aws.amazon.com/free/  ?
<oimon> anyone know if the roads will be ok to travel to the southwest on saturday, given that glasto is on?
<BigRedS> Oh. awesome
<BigRedS> I've a battery of s3-interfering scripts that need testing :)
<shauno> looks like it's just a hook, but still
<Pendulum> AlanBell: hah. I'd never actually buy an Enzo in that colour
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: os scripts? :)
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: ?
<dogmatic69> <BigRedS> I've a battery of s3-interfering scripts that need testing :)
<dogmatic69> ^ are they open source?
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: I'm not BigRedS :)
<dogmatic69> lol
<dogmatic69> auto complete has failed me :/
<bigcalm> It does for most
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: well, they're not particularly closed
<BigRedS> or complicated :)
<BigRedS> https://github.com/BigRedS/play/blob/master/to-s3.pl is the only currently-on-the-internet one I think
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: you should check out s3cmd
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: I've replaced a couple of uses of that script with it
<BigRedS> but it's ruby, so I distrust it :)
<dogmatic69> hehe
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: you prefer peal to bash?
<BigRedS> yeah
<BigRedS> I get bash syntax wrong first time, every time
<BigRedS> And, since perl's everywhere, there's little point writing even small scripts in bash when it requires so much more thinking than doing same in perl
<dogmatic69> so pear is more wide spread than bash?
<dogmatic69> or is it even
<oimon> guys, i have a weird X problem, wondered if anyone has seen it..
<oimon> when idle, the screen on my laptop has started to shift 100px left or 200px left, until i wiggle the mouse and stick it in the corner
<BigRedS> it's about even IME. Anything unix-like has bash, and anything unix-like has perl
<oimon> using 10.04 btw
<BigRedS> oimon: I had that aaaaages ago, but it fixed itself/was fixed in an update. I can empathise, but not actually help...
<oimon> only happens for mrs oimon and not me
<dogmatic69> oimon: i had that once, rebooted and was ok
<oimon> she gets it all the time, after a few mins idle, before screensaver kicks in
<oimon> i press prtscrn for screenshot, but everything is OK
<dogmatic69> mine was on desktop though
<dogmatic69> and clicking where things should be worked, just the gfx was off if you know what i mean
<oimon> yeah, it returns "wakes up" when i move the mouse, everything gets restored
<oimon> wonder if it is somehow realted to the wallpaper she is using
<hoover> oimon: cranky screen blanker maybe?
<oimon> hoover: not sure..the screensaver is a slideshow
<oimon> but kicks in later
<oimon> mysterious
<oimon> anyone got any tips for buying laptop batteries on ebay?
<oimon> obviously will only be buying a brand new one. wondering about genuine vs compatible
<BigRedS> I've done it with no particular care a few times, and had no problems
<BigRedS> Always compatibles
<shauno> I'm not sure you can trust bash to be ubiquitous anymore.  I think it's slowly going to get phased out on a lot of bsds thanks to gplv3
<JGJones> oimon, just to clarify - are you buying laptop batteries OR portable bombs/firestarters?
<oimon> JGJones: the intention is to charge the laptop without burning th ehouse down or exploding
<JGJones> I've only bought 2 so far, no problem - they was as far as I could see genuine.
<oimon> there seems to be a lot of people advertising the batteries as genuine and NEW/unused...
<oimon> i am mistrusting and cynical by nature though :P
<JGJones> obviously it goes without telling you go for those with highest number of positive ratings
<oimon> yessir
<popey> oimon: http://myworld.ebay.co.uk/power_biz/
<popey> I have bought from them twice, good ebayer
<JGJones> some ebay shops does have their own websites - with an actual office etc
<JGJones> power_biz - I think they was the one I bought two batteries from in the past actually
<oimon> thanks for the suggestions
<oimon> will aim for a genuine if i can do it at reasonable price
<oimon> my 3yr old laptop is holding 10 mins of charge
<oimon> in future i will ignore any advice on prolonging battery lifetime
<BigRedS> oimon: my experience of compatibles is that they're as good as I'd expect from a genuine
<BigRedS> sometimes the colour's a bit off, though
<oimon> BigRedS: in the past i've got compatibles for my canon cameras which have been a bit pathetic
<oimon> low lifetime
<BigRedS> Ah, these have all been for old IBM Thinkpads. I've had ~4h from a new battery, though I'm not sure I've ever actually kept using a battery for more than about a year, so it's possible they'd fall over there
<oimon> yeah, they seem to lose 50% in a year (even the branded ones)
 * oimon senses a disturbance in the force
<JGJones> sigh...have anyone managed to get a domain alias working for Google Apps for domains?
<JGJones> it never succeed for me - there's always a failure of some sort here or there, latest being a MX verification failure although can't see a problem with the DNS.
<czajkowski> no popey the world must be coming to an end
<davmor2> czajkowski: possibly getting his hire car towed away and replaced with another :(
<ali1234> popey.com is down too
<ali1234> oh it's back now
<shauno> heh, free rams?
<popey> well, my vps just went from 581 to 619MB after a reboot and a different kernel
<popey> but more ram to come !
<shauno> you found a -xen one that doesn't have this mystery window?
<popey> Linux bishop.popey.com 2.6.32-316-ec2 #31-Ubuntu SMP Wed May 18 14:09:06 UTC 2011 i686 GNU/Linux
<popey> ^^ that one
<shauno> interesting.  I was going to try grabbing a -xen one from debian, but if that works, may be tidier
<shauno> it can wait, since I'm only missing 15M :)  but good to know, since I should have a reboot coming up too
<gord> huh, some spam got past gmails filters... the matrix must be broke
<oimon> gord: must have been while popey was offline  :)
<shauno> it's not spam.  you don't know you want a russian bride yet, but google has studied your history and decided for you
<DJones> What would you do with a second russian bride though? Don't they already know from your credit card details that you've paid out recently for that
<JGJones> DJones, you can never have too many russian brides.
<AlanBell> one wife is plenty
<shauno> I don't know many people who've genuinely deserved two
<Pendulum> shauno: deserved or wanted?
<dwatkins> popey: if you have some time and the inclination to discuss it privately, I may be able to help with your spam issue
<shauno> I left it at 'deserved' so I have an out ;)
<popey> dwatkins: I'd rather it was public tbh :D
<popey> hence @adobe
<dwatkins> popey: understood :)
<popey> they asked for my address and I provided it
<dwatkins> oh excellent
<dwatkins> they are pretty good at responding to tweets
<JGJones> most companies are pretty good at responding to tweets as they're rather public.
<shauno> I tried that with my isp.  they told me someone would call me.  and that's the last I heard of that   hehe
<JGJones> I had a problem with Amazon AWS - you had to provide call a number to verify yourself so I tweeted them saying I couldn't do that.
<JGJones> and they skipped that step for me
<dwatkins> yeah, responding is one thing, how they respond is another.
<JGJones> dwatkins, yeah...although my issue was resolved, if I setup a new AWS account and get the telephone number again, then they haven't fixed the accessibility issue :)
<dwatkins> I was actually impressed with the reply I got from xbox live when I complained on twitter about my red-ring-of-death problem, didn't expect anything from them at-all, but got a link to a helpfyul knowledgebase article.
<gord> i for one look forward to the day when all call centres are replaced with twitter accounts
 * dwatkins redirects gord to cotweet.com
<shauno> but then they'll just move all the twits to bangalore, and we'll be back to square one
<dwatkins> trick is to make your tweet only understandable to someone whose native language is English ;)
<shauno> heh
<shauno> or the other problem I get is dublin :/
<dwatkins> What's up with Dublin?
<gord> @gordallott - Thank you for your interesting our product, have you tried turning it off and on again
 * AlanBell is just so tempted to make inappropriate jokes about dwatkins and the red-ring-of-death problem
<shauno> telling me it'll "be grand" isn't very reassuring when it's already broke
<dwatkins> AlanBell: heh
<dwatkins> Yeah, it's all too easy to just reply with some generic and useless link to a KB article
<shauno> they're just too happy.  they don't seem to realise that losing my internet at 2am actually is an inconvenience.  that's prime-time for me
<popey> heheh
<popey> the bloke I got at apple support was in dublin
<popey> he was very jovial
<shauno> I think they're in cork
<shauno> they have their own little planet going on down there  lol
<popey> yeah, quite friendly
<popey> Apple Support++
<shauno> I've only had to talk to them once.  got 200eur out of the convo, so can't complain
<popey> I got free support for something I'd broken
<shauno> ntl really are the only ones that bug me.  my bank are based in dublin too, and seem to be slightly more paranoid about my account than I am, which is healthy
<shauno> they haven't figured out that I'm timezone-impaired, so I only get sms at 4am.  other than that, they're fine
<dwatkins> How come you only get SMS at 4am, shauno? Are you in a Faraday-cage the rest of the time?
<shauno> they won't phone me at 4am
<shauno> eg, tryinb to buy my laptop half way thru the night was apparently suspicious.  so they blocked it, but wouldn't follow up until daybreak.  I just got an sms instead
<dwatkins> oh bah
<dwatkins> the most annoying thing about that is that they probably have people in India too
<shauno> it was funny in retrospect.  I really should have realised that spending 2400 at 3-4am would look a little unusual
 * dwatkins notes he's been buying a lot of phone apps recently
<dwatkins> I guess it's cheaper than desktop ones
<shauno> I've been trying to cut back on that.  ever since they added a list to my iphone to show me how much dross I'd actually bought :/
<AlanBell> popey: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-uk
<popey> yay
<dwatkins> should those of us not so actively helping join up too?
<AlanBell> sure
<AlanBell> I just changed the logo on it
<nigelb> AlanBell: nice logo ;)
<gord> hah, if you have large teams on launchpad (like u-uk), and list the members, it only shows X at a time, but then if you click a header to sort by say, date, it will only sort the currently showing members making the entire thing useless
<nigelb> gord: yeah. It hit me the other day.
<davmor2> http://www.youtube.com/v/bTi0A3BF0i4?version=3&autohide=1&autoplay=1 comedy gold :D
 * JGJones gives up on domain alias for google apps - if anyone want to try it, ensure you have more patience than a glacier and the ability to withstand errors that doesn't make sense.
<bigcalm> Worked for me on 2 domains :)
<BigRedS> that seems to be a requirement of google apps in general
<BigRedS> though I suppose nobody ever goes and shouts about how stuff just worked
<JGJones> bigcalm - I kept getting the MX verification error - despite my domain MX records showing up even in Google's public DNS servers.
<bigcalm> JGJones: if I had of had those errors, I might have been able to help you
<bigcalm> But, as I have not :S
<JGJones> after 9 days I can't be arsed to put up with it and am going just to setup a separate google app account instead.
<BigRedS> hah. Right on cue I now can't log into this google apps doc thing
<dogmatic69> what is the proper way to run a bash script?
<dogmatic69> ./path/to/script or . path/to/script
<bigcalm> Depends where you are and what you're doing
<dogmatic69> hmm
<bigcalm> If it's a file in the CWD: ./foo.sh
<bigcalm> If it's in a sub-path: a/b/c/foo.sh
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: http://bin.cakephp.org/view/940156834
<bigcalm> ./ is optional
<davmor2> dogmatic69: ./script or /moo/cow/script
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: if it's to go in a cronjob, use the absolute path
<dogmatic69> davmor2: thats the one, which is correct then, . path/to/script or just path/to/script
<TheOpenSourcerer> dogmatic69: Or you could do $ bash /path/to/script
<dogmatic69> damn thing complaining about the then, and its copied from examples
<JGJones> anyone develop apps for android?
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: you have a problem with Apache not running?
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: no its running
<dogmatic69> just want to make sure it stays running
<bigcalm> Well, it should unless you're dicking around with the system :)
<davmor2> dogmatic69: you only need the . if you are in the directory you are running it from ie I am in /moo/cow so I run ./script (which say this directory)  you can run /moo/cow/script from anywhere
<dogmatic69> k
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: yip
<dogmatic69> Syntax error: "then" unexpected (expecting "}") is the best i can get :/
<bigcalm> Personally I wouldn't want a script to auto-restart Apache. I'd rather be informed that it had stopped then I would go and find out as to why and try to fix it from happening again
<dogmatic69> that is the idea
<dogmatic69> gonna write a email thing now
<bigcalm> There are services that offer that
<bigcalm> But, it's a good way to learn :)
<dogmatic69> well that is the other idea too
<dogmatic69> bashSkills++
<JGJones> If anyone's interested...android dev wanted - http://twitter.com/#!/SignVideo/status/82801869826695169
<dogmatic69> just cant do a simple if atm
<bigcalm> JGJones: Ask Xalior in #lugradio
<JGJones> bigcalm, ta, will do
<davmor2> is anyone else wishing they had gone back to bed this morning?
<bigcalm> Bit late for that now
<bigcalm> 12 mins left to the day
<davmor2> bigcalm: I'm on till 8pm
<popey> davmor2: yes!
<davmor2> just one of those days I think :(
<popey> yeah
<gord> i'v had a surprisingly pleasant day :P
<ujjain> "He wanted to rid the NHS of inbalances". "How are people going to get to hospital?"... is this a play on the word inbalances?
<dutchie> yes, it sounds like "ambulances"
<ujjain> oh lol!!
<MartijnVdS> It's called an impenetrable accent ;)
<ujjain> hehehehe lol, that's pretty funny
<cbx33> hey all
<cbx33> my 11.04 has suddenly gotten much slower booting
<cbx33> anyone think of a reason why
<dwatkins> cbx33: nothing springs immediately to mind, but you might want to check your network settings, DHCP server, and run bootchart
<dwatkins> also, filesystems mounted at start-up
<cbx33> yeh none of that has changed
<cbx33> so boot chart is going to be the only option I think
<dwatkins> well, it should show where the wait is, but you might also be able to see it in the boot.log
 * dwatkins checks he isn't talking nonsense
<dwatkins> I am, it's the output of dmesg or /ar/log/dmesg
<dwatkins> (the file boot.log is used in SLES, not Ubuntu, I suspect)
<cbx33> ahh yeh
<cbx33> lemme see
 * dwatkins notes an 8-second gap in his between mounting the root filesystem and swap
<cbx33> once I install bootchart do I just reboot then to see it?
<dwatkins> I honestly can't remember, the documentation should say how it works - it probably just processes the dmesg file.
<cbx33> hehe
<czajkowski> popey: missing from over there --->
 * Mez starts trying not to suffer from manic laughter
<Mez> anyone ever done an interview by video conference?
<davmor2> czajkowski: No I see him must just be you, you popey hater you
<dwatkins> Mez: I was offered the option, but chose to go to the office instead
<Mez> dwatkins: I've got sometime in the next 2 weeks 5 interviews ... 2 will be face to face - 3 will be video conference.
<dwatkins> Videoconferencing saves loads of air-fares.
<Mez> as the job is in Mountain View - yeah... just a little bit of air fares :D
<zleap> Mez, nice thats in california right
<Mez> yup.
<dwatkins> I'd consider flying to California for an interview.
<Mez> dwatkins: so would I - but I'd not be able to on my coin :)
<shauno> heh, that'd be nice.  they've still got summer left. we're fresh out
<dwatkins> Mez: I'd expect for my travel and accomodation costs to be paid
<Mez> dwatkins: yes. However, If you were a company - what'd you rather do - send someone 130 miles, or send someone 5000 miles?
<dwatkins> Mez: depends how badly I wanted them, I guess, and how much of a recruitment budget I had
<Mez> Â£2k vs Â£80
<dogmatic69_> o/
<Mez> + accomodation
<kvarley> Doing "tar jcvf archive.tar.bz2 /home/kvarley/Documents/folder" makes a tar.bz2 file but it makes it with home/kvarley/Documents within it. How can I make it so it just puts the folder within it?
<jacobw> evening
<ali1234> kvarley: tar -C /home/kvarley/Documents/ -jcvf folder
<kvarley> ali1234: Where do I put the name for my tar.bz2 in that line?
<ali1234> oh in the same place
<ali1234> the point is tar makes an archive relative to the current directory
<kvarley> ah ok so you specify the directory it will be relative to...clever...thanks ali1234 =)
<kvarley> ali1234: tar -C /home/kvarley/Documents/ -jcvf archive.tar.bz2 myFolderName <--- that doesn't seem to work =/
<Mez> tar -C /home/kvarley/Documents/myFolder -jcvf archive.tar.bz2
<ali1234> kvarley: it works for me
<ali1234> Mez: that doesn't work though
<kvarley> Mez: tar -C /home/kvarley/Documents -jcvf archive.tar.bz2 <--- That returns "tar: Cowardly refusing to create an empty archive"
<ali1234> kvarley: so what error did you get with mine?
<kvarley> ali1234: The same
<ali1234> then the folder doesn't exist or something
<kvarley> ali1234: damnit...I'm such a noob lol
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/629987/
<kvarley> ali1234: I had a space somewhere
<kvarley> ali1234: tar -C /home/kvarley/Documents -jcvf archive.tar.bz2 python <--- That works =)
<ali1234> python has a really nice tarfile support where you can add a file with any archive name you want
<ali1234> not really relevant but i thought i would mention it anyway
<Mez> Also - is it me - or do yanks think that everywhere in england is London?
<Azelphur> it's not you :P
<fortiss> I'm running a web app on a ubuntu box and need a simple lock screen that acts like an iphone swipe to unlock lock screen. Its only to make sure if people were to brush up against it it wouldnt press buttons on the web app and that all buttons press on the web app are delibrate. It is a touchscreen with no KB. Any ideas?
<fortiss> thanks in advance for any help!
<popey> bah
<jacobw> uh wut?
 * popey stops /2
<popey> bah
<dwatkins> I guess we weren't quick enough for fortiss.
<gord> it would be nice to have that kind of functionality though, or basically, a screen lock that doesn't require a password
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Help Make Ensemble Rock: Formulas Needed - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/06/20/help-make-ensemble-rock-formulas-needed/
<ali1234> argh ubuntu still behaves really weird if the disk gets full
<jacobw> isn't that a property of unix in general?
<ali1234> yeah i guess
<ali1234> i mean it pops up warning when space is running low
<ali1234> but it doesn't do anything when it hits 0
<jacobw> what could it do?
<ali1234> i dunno, pop up another warning?
<ali1234> or warn when free space = 50mb instead of when it = 8gb
<jacobw> after the ones you've ignored?
<ali1234> i ignored it cos i still had 8gb free
 * jacobw is playing devils advocate
<jacobw> time for bed, night.
<brobostigon> good night everyone,sleep well.
<dwatkins> nn brobostigon
<brobostigon> good night dwatkins
 * dwatkins makes a note not to assume people he doesn't understand aren't speaking English
#ubuntu-uk 2011-06-21
<andylockran> howdy
<PcSett> identify PcSett
<PcSett> Pcsett password qx9yk4
<PcSett> moin
<PcSett> OK - Hi! :-)
<nigelb> PcSett: I'm sure you might want to change that password.
<MartijnVdS> (and not send it to a public channel :))
<nigelb> that too ;)
<PcSett> Hi :-)
<AlanBell> morning all
<danfish> morning
<popey> Morning all
<DJones> Hi PcSett don't know if you've changed it, but but just looking at scrollback, you typed your nickserv password into the channel
<popey> 06:12:28 -!- PcSett [~mumper@host86-135-56-156.range86-135.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
<popey> oh, back
<popey> sorry
<danfish> DJones: been there, done that ;)
<popey> 2
<popey> bah!
<DJones> danfish: I think most people have done it once
<JGJones> Hmm - ta popey for letting us know about dropbox - I still have it, but no documents etc in it - I treat it as an insecure flash disk now
<JGJones> the lack of having your own encryption key is an issue (same problem I have with Ubuntu One)
<JGJones> but while searching Android market, I came across Wuala - you encrypt data before you upload to them
<shauno> I'm mildly disappointed that this is a surprise to anyone.  you'd have thought that we'd know by now that this is how online services work.  especially (cost-)free ones
<JGJones> www.wuala.com
<JGJones> free account comes with 1GB - enough for documents etc.
<popey> JGJones: i use spideroak
<JGJones> and should be quicker than dropbox as their servers are based in Europe
<popey> encrypted end to end
<JGJones> looking at that - have heard of spideroak, but never used - for a long time now, I've used Jungledisk for online backup
<JGJones> jungledisk backup at moment cost me about 30p a month ;-)
<popey> its not backup I'm after, but sync
<MooDoo> hello all
<nigelb> o/
<MooDoo> :)
<oimon> ubuntu one would be picking up customers right now if they had fully functioning multi platform client
<nigelb> I believe they are working on it.
<BigRedS> oimon: it's hilarious that it's not even multi-distro 'compatible'
<BigRedS> I'd be using it now if I hadn't been told off for using Debian...
<TheOpenSourcerer> dropbox works really well. Well, it just works.
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: it does work really well, but then again so does spideroak as well :D
<oimon> i don't think dropbox deserve my attention
<nigelb> There is sparkleshare.
<oimon> companies that can't be trsuted with the small things (telling the truth) can't be trusted with the big things
<JGJones> That it does - hence I use it as a quick'n'dirty insecure flash disk, but I've now signed up for spideroak so I can sync my documents too.
 * oimon only uses ubuntu-based distros anyway, so can use ubuntu one
<popey> nigelb: i am utterly unimpressed with the way the u1 file sync project has been managed over the years
<oimon> syncany: "We're making good progress: the team is growing, the Windows version almost on the same level as the Linux version"
<popey> :P
<MooDoo> JGJones: spideroak works really well
<popey>  /cc aquarius
<aquarius> I am aware of your concerns. :)
<popey> :D
<popey> proxy proxy proxy
<popey> I think Canonical should forcably look to putting a proxy in the office
<popey> look to forciably
<popey> -typos and syntax failure
<oimon> syncany could be a solution for me since i have unlimited storage available via an ssh account
<oimon> forcibly :P
<nigelb> popey: git doesn't work with proxy either :|
 * nigelb was mad when he found that out.
<dogmatic69> morning
<MooDoo> dogmatic69: morning
<dogmatic69> o/
<JGJones> popey you should have another 1GB free with spideroak :)
<dogmatic69> anyone know how to make bash files work in netbeans, or... a ide that is nice for bash (non terminal)
<popey> thanks
<MooDoo> JGJones: you work for them or something? ;)
<MooDoo> ah just seen the tweet
<popey> http://t.co/uephzJJ
<JGJones> MooDoo, heh :) nah, popey tweeted a referral link
<popey> âº
<nigelb> popey: Neat :D
<JGJones> small bug in spideroak UI - it tells me "Available Storage: 2GBs Free" but in Storage Bar, it say 3GB :)
<popey> heh
<AlanBell> just been reading up about ensemble in Ubuntu. Seems a bit loopy.
<popey> AlanBell: I don't get it either
<AlanBell> so if I am reading it right, you spin up an Amazon EC2 image, which then can spin up another one to run MySQL and another one to run wordpress and it configures them to talk to each other
<AlanBell> s/wordpress/other stuff/
<oimon> isn't it like the VMware orchestrator?
<AlanBell> so by my calculations that is three VMs where you pay by the second to run one wordpress
<shauno> congratulations, you can count higher than most the people on the cloud bandwagon ;)
<JGJones> pff the numering scheme always work for me - one, two, many.
<oimon> they should call the plural of formula, formulae though
<oimon> especially if they will use fancy latin words as principia
<oimon> the ensemble makes sense to me though
<AlanBell> I think they need to pick a better example use-case than wordpress
<oimon> oh, i was reading https://ensemble.ubuntu.com/
<oimon> there wasn't any wordpress mentioned
<AlanBell> https://ensemble.ubuntu.com/docs/user-tutorial.html#scaling-the-ensemble
<AlanBell> and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxMhKbDSbOw
<shauno> I'm still not sure what $18/month for EC2 actually gets you over paying the same for a vps.  besides having to pay per GB for your traffic
<oimon> rapid scalability?
<AlanBell> for what?
<daubers> Morning
<selinuxium> Morning all  o/
<JGJones> shauno, I'm using EC2 for webhost at the moment
<JGJones> using the free tier so it's costing me nothing for a year.
<JGJones> after that I'll just switch to a VPS
<gord> AlanBell, iirc it deploys to individual EC2 instances now, but thats because its early in development, in the future it'll do multiple services per machine
<gord> i think the entire thing is really just about getting lots of different services up and talking to each other quickly
<diplo> Morning all, I have a dir in /home/andy called www which is synced with U1
<diplo> Is there a way I can not sync certain sub dirs in that www dir ?
<gord> diplo, not explicitly i think, its worth noting that u1 does not follow sym links, so if you make those dir's sym links to somewhere else then it won't sync those dirs
<diplo> ok, that's worth a try thanks
<oimon> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/21/nokia_singapore_meego_but_no_windows/ << Nokia unveils first and last ever Meego phone
<AlanBell> gord: yeah, it just seems like a harder way to do stuff
<davmor2> morning all
<MooDoo> davmor2: morning matey
<nigelb> morning davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: Morning me owld mukka
<MooDoo> davmor2: how are you chap?
<davmor2> nigelb: morning dude
<nigelb> davmor2: *yawn* though I'm seriously questioning its morning
<davmor2> MooDoo: I've been better but on the whole I can't complain
<nigelb> Its a lazy afternoon for me
<davmor2> nigelb: nice
<MooDoo> davmor2: u poorly?  or just busy?
<davmor2> MooDoo: just feeling blurrrr mostly tired I guess need a holiday to recharge oh I got one next week :D
<oimon> does a . in front of a @twitter hide it from others?
<MooDoo> davmor2: i get on the week after, whitby :D
<nigelb> oimon: It stops it from being hidden from others
<nigelb> starting a tweet with @ hides it from most clients
<oimon> nigelb: oh. so what's the shortcut for a DM?
<davmor2> MooDoo: We are off to Bakewell for the week,  hmmmmmm lots of tarts (the edible kinda, minds out of gutters)
<nigelb> oimon: On the new web us, just press 'M'
<nigelb> *ui
<gord> davmor2, you in dublin next week?
<davmor2> gord: Nope
<MooDoo> davmor2: i'll be there at the weekend :D
<gord> davmor2, boo
<MooDoo> davmor2: father in law has a static caravan there :)
<davmor2> gord: yeah I know but we aren't platform dude
<gord> davmor2, please change jobs entirely, i require other uk'ers to gasp in shock at Daviey's flip flops
<davmor2> MooDoo: where bakewell?
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah :) about 4 mins out the town center :)  where you staying :)
<davmor2> gord: isn't AQ there surely between the 2 of you, you'll be able to make him cry enough to lose them :)
<nigelb> gord: Daviey has flip flops? O_O
<davmor2> MooDoo: we will be at the Camping and Caravanning Club site let me grab the details
<nigelb> davmor2: +1 to that ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: i'll pmsl laughing if it's the same site lol
<MooDoo> greenhills?
<davmor2> MooDoo: Nope but not far away Bakewell Camping and Caravanning Club Site, Hopping Lane, Youlgreave, Bakewell, Derbyshire, DE45 1NA. We get there Sunday
<MooDoo> davmor2: aye not that far at all from me....i'm the other side of bakewell
<JGJones> Seem all the news are all for IT security lately - Distribute.IT was cracked and around 4800 sites lost along with emails.
<JGJones> Aussie hosting company
<nigelb> JGJones: Oh yay :|
<MooDoo> davmor2: have a fun time, it's a glorious area and if you get up there early enough, give us a buzz, i'm sure i can shout you a pint
<davmor2> MooDoo: We'll have to meet up somewhere just so we can say we are not bots on an irc channel
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah :)
 * MooDoo starts to hick fizz blerp i'm not a bot wibble wibble
<JGJones> http://goo.gl/CaLpg - about Distribute.IT for those interested (seem even their backup was destroyed...ouch)
<shauno> that is ouch.  that's more disgrunted employee ouch, than drive-by vandalism
<nigelb> Unlike the case of Sony, this one doesn't seem to be an attempt to showcase the insecurity of the system. It seems to be just to stop their business.
<bennie_> hey, bit of a random question. Does anyone know if using noatime as a partition mount option will disable Zeitgeist logging (my super +f is being odd)
<JGJones> Quick question - got a Macbook Pro (Core2Duo) - what's the maximum memory I can stuff into it?
<pioneer> ouch, another reason to use offsite backup's of your servers info
<JGJones> Can it take 2x2GB?
<BigRedS> pioneer: more pertinently, off *line* backups
<BigRedS> JGJones: I'd be surprised if it couldn't
<MooDoo> google it?
<JGJones> I would assume so since I have a older laptop from Dell that could take much more...
<JGJones> MooDoo, yup just done...Apple say 3GB
<JGJones> wtf
 * BigRedS is surprised
<JGJones> I could put in 2x2GB, but it'll only use 3GB?!
<pioneer> BigRedS, to true. some nice LTO tapes with sql backups and the like
<BigRedS> this isn't a 32 bit kernel thingy is it?
<JGJones> no, it's 10.6
<BigRedS> pioneer: that sort of thing
<BigRedS> we used to use an external disk whose power supply was plugged into one of those timer things. It was only powered up for an hour a day
<pioneer> keep the hours down?
<JGJones> BigRedS, looking at crucial.com - it say for a 2.2GHz core2duo macbook pro, the max is 4GB
<shauno> JGJones: the older c2d claim they take 3, but should use 2x2 if the firmware is up to date
<shauno> which is why you'll get both answers
<shauno> also, as much as these guys don't use the exposure, this one's getting rather interesting - http://thenextweb.com/industry/2011/06/21/lulzsec-supposedly-claims-its-biggest-coup-yet-the-entire-uk-2011-census/
<shauno> er, don't need the expoure, rather
<JGJones> shauno, thanks - firmware should be up to date so will get memory for the wife's macbook pro.
<JGJones> as well as a battery.
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<JGJones> lulzsec - hardly something to boast about...all they had to do was to just go on a train with civil servents on it...they always leave a laptop withn unencrypted data lying around ;)
<davmor2> morning czajkowski how am ya kiddo
<pioneer> morning brobostigon
<MooDoo> czajkowski: MORNING hugs....missed you :)
<brobostigon> morning pioneer
 * daubers ponders a mug of tea
<nigelb> that reminds me that I need some tea.
 * nigelb goes to get some.
<daubers> \o/ tea
<JGJones> hmm...that remind me I forgot about my tea and it's now cold.
 * JGJones pretend it's iced tea.
<popey> I dont mind cold tea and coffee
<MooDoo> oooo yeah cold coffee :)
<popey> I do mind when a full cup of cold tea or coffee are tidied away
<JGJones> glad to know I'm not the only one then :) People usually go urgh.
<shauno> that's what microwaves are for :p
<pioneer> drink the cold one quick.. then go make another :)
<MooDoo> interesting watching other meetings, nice to see what's going on
<MooDoo> sorry popey i meant to ask you if you were supposed to be in the meeting, i got distracted
<jpds> http://thenextweb.com/industry/2011/06/21/lulzsec-supposedly-claims-its-biggest-coup-yet-the-entire-uk-2011-census/
<MooDoo> jpds: it's pastebin, anyone could of put that :)
<jpds> MooDoo: Yep.
<MooDoo> jpds: there has already been a responce - http://pastebin.com/g1C7d82G
<popey> I was afk MooDoo
<shauno> figlet \o/
<jpds> MooDoo: Ha.
<JGJones> I'm just waiting for a civil servent to pipe up "err...where's my laptop" then I'll panic ;)
<shauno> is it bad that I'm almost interested to see the data for mashup value?
<shauno> it'd be a shame if the only uses it saw were evil :o)
<JGJones> Ohhh...on this day - the world first stored-program computer ran its first program in 1948
<JGJones> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Manchester_Small-Scale_Experimental_Machine
<shauno> pfft.  it'll never take off
<oimon> ah manchester, my alma mater
<dogmatic69> most commands i run in php cli return to a var, eg: $txt = `ps ax | grep /usr/sbin/apache2 | grep -v grep | cut -c1-5 | paste -s -`; $var has the result... but something like $txt = `mysqladmin -u root -proot status` when mysql is down just shows the txt in terminal
<dogmatic69> how do i get that text?
<popey> redirect the output to a file and read the file?
<JGJones> shauno, it'll fail...it doesn't have 64Kb which as anyone know is enough.
<shauno> most likely stderr.  try tacking 2&>1 to the end of the mysql command (but inside the backticks)
<dogmatic69> popey: ew
<shauno> er, 2>&1, rather
<popey> no, the "ew" is you're using php cli
<dogmatic69> shauno: trying :)
<dogmatic69> popey: sshhh
 * dogmatic69 has weak bash skills
<shauno> not sure if php has it's own way to capture stderr, but that'll be the root of it. by default you're capturing stdout only
<dogmatic69> thanks shauno that worked
<shauno> cool
<dogmatic69> shauno: so what does that do?
<dogmatic69> it redirects output from ? to ?
<shauno> 1 is stdout, 2 is stderr.  2>&1 tells it to put stderr into stdout.
<shauno> so you capture both as one output
<shauno> (alternatively you could do something 2>foo.errors >foo.log, to capture them seperately)
<shauno> I'm pretty bad at explaining these things, but that should be plenty of google-fu :)
 * davmor2 points at Daviey 's unsuitable choice of footwear and laughs till it dawns on him that he is wearing a pair of birkenstocks
<shauno> http://content.met.police.uk/News/eCrime-unit-arrest-man/1260269113895/1257246745756   \o/
<daubers> shauno: There seems to be an assumption that's linked?
<dogmatic69> shauno: tx
<BigRedS> daubers: I think that's entirely based on timing
<dogmatic69> how can i run a command on server B from server A
<BigRedS> ssh serverB "command"
<dogmatic69> thanks
<daubers> BigRedS: So we're back to the decline in pirates causing global warming?
<BigRedS> daubers: yup
<daubers> http://xkcd.com/552/ \o/
<BigRedS> I am amused at the thought that all those paper censuses are already in electronic form
<shauno> daubers: that seems to be the impression, yeah.  bits like "DDoS attacks against a number of international business and intelligence agencies" and "in co-operation with the FBI" narrow it down quite a bit
<BigRedS> I'd be surprised if any arrest like that wasn't in co-operation with the FBI
<oimon> "co-operation"
<shauno> afaict, 'co-operation' when it comes to uk/us relations means "doing as we're told"
<oimon> especially when president blair was in charge
<oimon> i notice that my local shopkeeper has many packets of after-eight sweets due to expire 7/11..wonder if he'll do me a deal
<oimon> more likely he will continue to sell to people who don't check expiry dates
<shauno> can't hurt to try.  it'll atleast give him the impression people do check the dates ;)
<oimon> yeah, and i think i'm the only one buying them
<BigRedS> shauno: not really. I've long put that down more to blair agreeing with bush than him being particularly subservient
<BigRedS> in any case, there's much longer history of police cooperation between the two than the subservient-uk thing
<davmor2> hey gord is there a way to make the App launcher go back in after it decides it doesn't want to play hide and seek anymore?
<gord> davmor2, not that i have found, but i don't work on that so i don't know a huge amount about it
<gord> apart from alt+f2 unity
<davmor2> gord: Nope still not playing
<davmor2> gord: I'm guessing there is an app causing it and I blame mumble
<gord> davmor2, mumble is a problem app =\
<oimon> is there another, more polite sounding word than urinal?
<davmor2> oimon: p pot
<gord> davmor2, we are all very sorry about it :( http://i.imgur.com/lDHCI.jpg
<PcSett> Arternoon each :-)
<davmor2> gord: that is the worlds saddest looking puppy
<davmor2> gord: I'm assuming it is mumble anyway that or skype
<gord> mumble normally acts weird for me
<gord> like with all aspects, not just unity
<davmor2> gord: the launcher onlt ever seems to play up when I use mumble though which is annoying considering how much my team uses mumble :)
<oimon> new version of swype for android is much better now :D
<gord> davmor2, run the windows version in wine? ;)
<shauno> *gasp*  I'm telling rms!
<BigRedS> oimon: is that the funny keyboard?
<davmor2> gord: harsh I'd use the android version on my phone if that worked properly :)
<oimon> BigRedS: yes, it's great..helps you type 10x faster
<BigRedS> oimon:
<oimon> BigRedS:
<BigRedS> ah, I never got the hang of it...
<BigRedS> clearly I can't manage these keyboards either :/
<oimon> it was buggy before
<oimon> well , it was good, then they released a buggy one, now it's good again
<BigRedS> ahhh. This was stock on my galaxy, so I suspect it was the buggy one
<BigRedS> that was quite a pervasive pattern
<davmor2> gord: I found a fix restart machine
<gmb> This makes me very, very happy: http://goons.fabcat.org
<gmb> Just wanted to share.
 * gmb exeunt, in pursuit of a brass band
<dogmatic69> whats the thoughts on using git for backups?
<dogmatic69> ie: i have a folder full of images, have a cron running every few min doing git status, if there are changes do git add && commit && push to master repo. then just back up the master repo daily or something?
<gord> only makes sense if you want to be able to revert revisions
<gord> i doubt you do
<dogmatic69> sometimes
<dogmatic69> it also makes the backups smaller as its just pushing new files instead of gzip the whole folder and uploading to S3
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: there's rsyncalikes for s3
<BigRedS> s3sync
<BigRedS> it's also ruby, though :(
<dogmatic69> :/
<dogmatic69> **PLEASE NOTE THAT S3SYNC IS NO LONGER BEING DEVELOPED**
<BigRedS> it still only does whole files, though. but it'll can either work on modified time or on md5s
<BigRedS> yeah
<BigRedS> that's mostly immaterial so long as it works now
<BigRedS> :)
<dogmatic69> ye
 * popey hugs spideroak
<BigRedS> I do keep meaning to try one of the s3fs things and plain old rsync
<BigRedS> but I suspect that will be suboptimal
<dogmatic69> im usinng s3cmd now, but uploading 100's of MB every day for something that has not changed
<MooDoo> popey: tis good isn't it :)
<dogmatic69> and when someone in the office needs to fix something on the site its a few hundred meg backup and then download.
<dogmatic69> git pull <backup-repo> seems good
<BigRedS> aren't you going up to an actual server instance, thoug? where you could just run rsyncd?
<dogmatic69> atm its from instance to S3
<dogmatic69> got a synology box that the instances could push to
<BigRedS> ohh
<dogmatic69> or synology could pull from
<dogmatic69> currently there are about 5 client servers, all running exactly the same thing
<dogmatic69> hosted software etc
<dogmatic69> how do you make a new line in bash? just leave a space?
<bigcalm> \n
<bigcalm> If it's in double quotes
<BigRedS> or just echo ""
<dogmatic69> echo "MySQL: $mysql \n" is showing the \n
<bigcalm> Odd
<shauno> echo -e
<shauno> it won't evaluate escapes by default.  echo -e this\nthat will
<BigRedS> but echo appends a newline by default
<MooDoo> words=âfirst line \n second line.â
<MooDoo> echo -e $words
<MooDoo> and you'll get first line
<MooDoo> secondline
<MooDoo> shauno: sorry missed your line :)
<shauno> and my secondline :p
<MooDoo> yeah
<shauno> (long day.  I'll find anything funny)
<shauno> just waiting for someone to echo -ne & we can start banging coconut shells together
<shauno> I sent management an email asking if we could send someone to NZ to deliver a slap.  got the reply that we can only budget for surface mail
<shauno> glad to see I'm not the only one having a bad-head day
<selinuxium> popey, How do you fire up spideroak on Natty?
<JGJones> popey what do you use for updating dyndns on a server?
<popey> woah woah
<popey> ALT+F2
<popey> and ddclient
<popey> respectively
<selinuxium> cheers :)
<JGJones> ta
<selinuxium> oop
<selinuxium> s
<BigRedS> is there an easy way to have the MySQL commadn line client use those pretty tables even when I've done `echo $someSQL | mysql`?
<selinuxium> erm, Spideroak installed but not found under atl-F2...
<popey> capital S
<shauno> BigRedS: --table ?
<BigRedS> shauno: yes! Cheers!
<shauno> --help|grep table  ;)
<BigRedS> I grepped for so many things, table wasn't one of them :)
<shauno> lol.  yet it was the first thing you asked for
<shauno> not complaining tho, makes it easy to look clever :)
<BigRedS> haha, yeah
<selinuxium> popey, Hmmm still not... Strange
<oimon> ugh i hate it when i accidentally print a confidential doc to a printer a few floors away..
<oimon> ubuntu...y u no remember my default printer?
<selinuxium> popey, SpiderOak    (got it)
<JGJones> oimon, it's because ubuntu love you
<BigRedS> people still print things?
<oimon> JGJones: it wants me to remain fit?
<JGJones> indeed
<oimon> BigRedS: you should see my office right now
<oimon> under mountain of paper
<oimon> tis the annual review season
<BigRedS> ahh :(
<JGJones> BigRedS, I still print. Once in a blue moon...so infrequently, the inkjet tend to get dried up and jammed
<oimon> my inkjet at home claims to have empty cartridges, however they aren't empty
<oimon> it seems the only way to fix those "problems" is to buy new catridges
<oimon> swines
<shauno> there's usually hacks around that.  they believe the wee chips on the carts rather than reality
<revo_> hi, can you help me with lucid?
<JGJones> oimon, that's common to Canon's I think?
<bigcalm> !ask
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
 * oimon has a canon ip4300
<revo_> ok, let me re-phrase that
<revo_> can i get help with lucid here, or should i move along?
<bigcalm> revo_: please just ask your question
<oimon> revo_: plenty of lucid users in here
<bigcalm> If somebody can help you, they will. If not, try again later
<JGJones> aye, Canon need their chips to be hacked if filling ink yourself.
<oimon> JGJones: not filling ink myself though
<oimon> i hate inkjets
<oimon> usually i use my trust laserjet 4+
<JGJones> oimon, not a problem with HP - I fill it up myself and it's good as new.
<oimon> which is 20 yrs old i think
<shauno> I just don't have a printer.  paper is evil.
<JGJones> I didn't know Trust make printers now.
<oimon> /trust/trusty
<JGJones> Thought they was more of a cheap mouse/webcam's :D
<revo_> the screen keeps blanking after 10 minutes, i have unchecked screensaver and selected never twice in energy manager, i have also appended "Off" next to "DPMS" in the xorg.conf as well as 'xset -dpms' as a start up process, what can i do to stop the screen blanking?
<oimon> was about to throw away my laserjet because i thought it had become rubbish. .turned out that ubuntu is misclassifying it as a PS printer when it isn't, since 10.04 at least. took me ages to figure that out
<JGJones> them old HP printers are almost as tough at the IBM Model M keyboard's
<JGJones>  /at/as
<oimon> revo_: although you have disabled screensaver, what time is it set to?
<oimon> i vaguely remember a similar problem once
<revo_> oimon, let me check
<revo_> that would be 4 minutes oimon
<JGJones> revo_, what's your screen timeout in Power Managements?
<revo_> JGJones, never
<oimon> desktop or laptop?
<revo_> oimon, personal computer, revo acer aspire
<revo_> nvidia ION gpu
<oimon> i have the same machine
<revo_> freshly installed last week
<revo_> good huh!:)
<JGJones> revo_, just wondering - does the same thing happen on the monitor using a different OS? Such as Windows?
<oimon> using it as a display screen in a foyer, i have disabled screensaver
<revo_> yes me too oimon
<revo_> well trying to
<revo_> JGJones, good point i could check that
<oimon> hmm can someone verify a bug? i click help on the screensaver page and get an error
<oimon> The file â/usr/share/gnome/help/user-guide/en_GB/user-guide.xmlâ could not be parsed because one or more of its included files is not a well-formed XML document.
<czajkowski> `/c
<JGJones> revo_, I only said that because many moons ago, I had an iiyama CRT monitor....after roughly 10-15 minutes it'll die on me.
<DJones> revo_: JGJones oimon This sounds like the problem and solution to that, its something I had a problem with some years back http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1222980
 * MooDoo pokes czajkowski oi afternoon 
<czajkowski> hi
<revo_> ok, i have had this problem before and adding xset -dpms to startup seemed to work, but not now
<oimon> hdmi or vga connection?
<revo_> vga
<revo_> wow 2005 DJones thats way back lol
<oimon> revo_: do you also get the bug when you click help on the screensaver page?
<DJones> revo_: Yes I know, but that did the trick for me a while back
<revo_> help has never worked on most apps so i dont try oimon
<oimon> :-\
<revo_> DJones, hey, if it works good times!
<DJones> The post is dated 25th July 2009 though
<DJones> the 2005 was the persons join date to the forums
<revo_> true my bad
<revo_> thing is it may have i totally different display when i drop it off at the school
<revo_> DJones, xorg amended going for reboot, thank you v-much
<oimon> is .webarchive a real apple file?
<oimon> someone just sent me 2 files called .webarchive which i cannot view
<shauno> sounds about right :/
<shauno> I'd just ask them to use print as pdf. you should be able to break a webarchive into parts by hand, but it's really gotta be worth the time
<oimon> shauno: i think i will delegate to a mac owning colleague :)
<shauno> even easier  heh
<shauno> but yeah.  it's safari's version of .mhtml
<oimon> ugh
<shauno> except they use plist instead of mime as the container.  obviously so they can remain cross-compatible with nextstep :/
<hcfd> Reposting due to connection barf:
<hcfd> TFTPD on Ubuntu: xinetd is the only option?
<hcfd> tftpd-hpa is better perhaps?
<revo_> a big massive huge thank you to DJones that xorg fix seemed to have done the business
<DJones> revo_: You're welcome
<revo_> :)
<shauno> man I'm getting old.  someone mentioned sisters of mercy, and I thought of the leonard cohen song instead of the band :/
<MooDoo> shauno: ouch
<shauno> I saw him amsterdam a few years ago. but still, I may have to bic the greys away for that one
<oimon> wayne hussey, lol
<MooDoo> everyone seen AlanBell email about re-approval for the loco?
<oimon> sees this, thinks of popey: http://www.quickmeme.com/Minecraft/
<DJones> Another bitcoin story that doesn't involve hacking https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/06/eff-and-bitcoin The EFF has decided to stop accepting donations in the form of bitcoins
<AlanBell> MooDoo: I did, yes :)
<MooDoo> AlanBell: :p lol
<MooDoo> AlanBell: might tag along :p
<selinuxium> shauno, I am seeing the Sisters soon... :)
 * MooDoo starts singing Dominion
 * selinuxium starts dancing, arms outstretched, watching my shoes...
<davmor2> I saw it I'll try and remember not to be asleep ;)
<oimon> selinuxium: clementine has just decided to start playing the cure in homage
<suprengr> Hiyaz all.. a quandary: I'm looking a way of encrypting a *single*  folder... putting it up on Ubuntu One... retrieving it & decrypting on another pooter.  CryptKeeper springsto mind but have not experience in that use.  Ideas [pretty please]?
<JGJones> TrueCrypt is another solution
 * BigRedS ponders suggesting a convoluted solution involving luks and fuse
<BigRedS> actually, I'd probably gpg a tar of the file
<suprengr> [nothing sinister - it's the "pictures" folder... it has family photos & therefore has daughter photos.  Don't want pervs getting near it therefore]
<gord> i don't understand spotify at all
<JGJones> suprengr so basically you're after a file-sync service that encrypt files before uploading?
<gord> why can't i just give it a genre and tell it to go nuts
<BigRedS> it gets buggier with every update. or at least did until I stopped updating it
<suprengr> BigRedS, that was my first thought.. but I was thinking of a way of real sync for the folder.
<BigRedS> gord: 'cause it's not lastfm
<gord> it should be!
<BigRedS> suprengr: ahhhhh, sync. yeah. forgot it did that
<BigRedS> well, they can fix that when the volume knob works
<suprengr> JGJones, yes, exactly that
<JGJones> suprengr, if after a filesync software that encrypt before upload, I just signed up with spideroak this morning as it does that.
<suprengr> JGJones, thanks - will have a look
 * suprengr ponders... if onlu U1 did that...
<JGJones> popey had a referral link that give a free 1GB extra to the free account giving you 3GB btw
<JGJones> suprengr, aye....I agree...U1 need it.
<shauno> popey's going to be rolling around in a 50Gb spideroak account by the end of the day ;)
<JGJones> heh
<daubers> AlanBell: I need to add the scifi thing to the team reapproval whatsit don't I
<MartijnVdS> scifi thing \o/
<gord> scifi! \o/
<MartijnVdS> Just over 1 month to go :)
<AlanBell> daubers: yup, that would be great
<MartijnVdS> daubers: Do you have any more details than the date yet?
<daubers> MartijnVdS: been a touch busy :( Shall try and do something about that this evening :)
<daubers> I've been told that regents park is really close, so would be the best bet for pinic-ing
<MartijnVdS> daubers: it's 2 tube stops/about a km
<MartijnVdS> well 4 tube stops, but close together
<daubers> Heh :) Anything closer?
<MartijnVdS> I'm not the London expert :P
<MartijnVdS> daubers: most tube lines pass King's Cross, so anything would work really
<daubers> Okies
<MartijnVdS> daubers: (BL is in the middle between Euston and King's Cross St Pancras)
<daubers> Attack of the OSM kind tonight by the look of it
<MartijnVdS> daubers: Google Maps has a London Underground overlay (heh)
<MartijnVdS> daubers: click a station, and all lines passing it light up
<daubers> \o/
<shauno> there is a certain amount of irony to asking the dutch guy for directions ;)
<daubers> Yeah, based on googley maps, regents park is the closest
<MooDoo> googley....chuckle
<daubers> Just tube from KC to Regents park :)
<daubers> Can meet people for BL at the thinking dude
<MartijnVdS> thinking dude?
<daubers> There's a big statue of a dude thinking
<MartijnVdS> can't find it on streetview :)
<daubers> http://maps.google.com/maps?q=96+Euston+Road&hl=en&ll=51.528671,-0.127153&spn=0.001288,0.003484&sll=51.515069,-0.129236&sspn=0.041235,0.111494&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=51.528839,-0.127059&panoid=EIDpqbkoPCIp0lXrSqm9dg&cbp=12,276,,0,2.38
<daubers> You can just see him with his compasses behind the tree
<MartijnVdS> ah
<MartijnVdS> that's the square in front of the entrance of the BL :)
 * MartijnVdS went there last year for the maps thing
<daubers> :)
<Laney> ARGH
<Laney> my tea strainer split open and dumped its contents in the bottom of the cup
<daubers> Laney!
<daubers> Oh noes!
<daubers> Also!
<JGJones> That's not a bad thing.
<daubers> Home times!
<JGJones> Look on the bright side.
<JGJones> You get to read your tea leaves after you're done!
<Laney> i get to experience their unique texture too
<Laney> especially the sticks and seeds since it's chai
<Laney> yum
<MartijnVdS> Sounds like the manufacturer should be tried for treason
<popey> ooo
 * popey makes some mint chilli tea
<MartijnVdS> Closest I have to that is mildly chilly tea :(
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: not quite the same then
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: not really, no
<andylockran> ?
<andylockran> how do
<jacobw> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<andylockran> :)
<andylockran> things good?
<Myrtti> *yawn*
<Core_UK> dum dee dum
<jacobw> ob la di ob la da do da
<MartijnVdS> tralalala?
<brobostigon> BOOO
<Core_UK> What was that open source drop box alternative on the u:uk podcast?
<jacobw> synocpy
<MartijnVdS> Ubuntu One? :P
<jacobw> syncopy even
<Core_UK> http://syncode.com.au/apps/syncopy/?
<jacobw> i don't think so
<Core_UK> thats mac only
<jacobw> i could well be wrong, i often am; you should wait for an answer from someone who knows or check the show notes on the uupc website
<webpigeon> Martinp23: "open source" :P
<webpigeon> MartijnVdS: ^ mistab
<MartijnVdS> webpigeon: the client is... :)
<webpigeon> MartijnVdS: the server 'aint :P
<MartijnVdS> details, details
<Core_UK> are Mozilla getting desperate?
<MartijnVdS> Core_UK: have been for a while, why?
<Core_UK> firefox 5 out today
<jacobw> owncloud
<Core_UK> firefox 6 tomorrow...
<webpigeon> Core_UK: owncloud?
<webpigeon> jacobw beat me to it :P
<MartijnVdS> Core_UK: really?
<Core_UK> 6 no, 5 yes :P
<Core_UK> owncloud... thank you :)
<MartijnVdS> '6 for developers'
<Core_UK> Is chrome the future?
<webpigeon> Why do most projects seem to be doing major version bumps these days :/
<MartijnVdS> webpigeon: Chrome/Chromium started it
<jacobw> i'm sure their new rapid development cycle won't work, just like gnome and ubuntu's don't :P
<JGJones> pff - Opera does it better - it goes up to 11!
<MartijnVdS> with version 12 coming up..
<webpigeon> MartijnVdS: yeah, but bring back the major releases being API breaks :P
<MartijnVdS> JGJones: you like niche browsers then? :)
<MartijnVdS> webpigeon: nah, don't break apis, iterate!
<jacobw> JGJones: C++ now goes up to 11 ;)
<webpigeon> MartijnVdS: isn't that just breaking the API whenever you feel like it? :P
<MartijnVdS> webpigeon: no, that's providing a new API, making the old one complain
<MartijnVdS> webpigeon: then removing the old API after pushing people to the new one :)
<JGJones> MartijnVdS, I've been using Opera since 1997 or something like that :)
<MartijnVdS> JGJones: so it's a nostalgia thing ;)
<JGJones> MartijnVdS, Chrome's the only browser that I actually really like apart from Opera :)
<MartijnVdS> I love chrome for its speed
<Core_UK> i dont trust google
<JGJones> but I still go back to Opera (it's still just as fast as Chrome for me)
<MartijnVdS> and its lack of memory bloat issues
<webpigeon> MartijnVdS: then you end up with ArrayLists and Vectors :P
<MartijnVdS> à² _à²  @ Mozilla
<MartijnVdS> Core_UK: Chromium != Chrome
<Core_UK> i was going to ask
<MartijnVdS> I use Chromium, not Chrome
<Core_UK> how independant from google am i if i use chronium?
<Core_UK> independent*
<MartijnVdS> Core_UK: as long as you don't set up sync, I don't think it talks to google at all
<MartijnVdS> Core_UK: unless you use google, of course
<MartijnVdS> (you can set the search engine to Bing if you want, and the "prediction engine")
<jacobw> how are you independent from Richard Stallman if you use programs compiled by GCC ?
<jacobw> :P
<webpigeon> MartijnVdS: wonder if it does the whole, "this is a bad sight...", damn it, stop reading my brain.
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: as long as I don't have to eat things from my foot...
<Core_UK> Why would I want to be idependant from RSM :D
<Core_UK> google want to take over the world I know it!
<TheOpenSourcerer> So what is Canonical/Ubuntu's position on Firefox/Thunderbird/Chrome when they are releasing new versions every 6 weeks!
<Core_UK> they are considering Chrome i heard
<webpigeon> TheOpenSourcerer: run away? :P
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: they just put the new versions in $currently_supported_release, don't they?>
<TheOpenSourcerer> dunno.
<gord> TheOpenSourcerer, we'll take the latest crack, as we have always done
<MartijnVdS> I'm sure I've had Chromium updates on natty
<gord> version numbers really mean nothing
<TheOpenSourcerer> Historically they stuck to a version in a version
<JGJones> MartijnVdS, I don't seem to get memory bloat with Opera
<Core_UK> has anyone used owncloud on linux and windows?
<JGJones> although I admit I've not really looked and compared...I just know opera "just works" for me...ie never lose a session etc.
<jacobw> server or client?
<Core_UK> erm
<TheOpenSourcerer> gord: I agree that with the 6 weekly releases they don't really mean much. But it's a bugger for packagers and extension maintainers
<Core_UK> either?
<brobostigon> i get chromium updates, almost everyday, but i use the chromium daily, ppa.
<webpigeon> Core_UK: can't say I have but it's PHP so... should work... :/
<webpigeon> server ^
<gord> TheOpenSourcerer, not really, it depends more on if api/abi changes more than if the version numbers go up
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have a Thunderbird extension. And when Gecko moves froms say 4 -> 5 it can/will change APIs
<TheOpenSourcerer> Likewise 5->6
<TheOpenSourcerer> And so on.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Every 6 weeks.
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-(
<gord> depends on their policy of api changes between major versions
<TheOpenSourcerer> Admittedly they may be small incremental changes but nevertheless it's a PITA
<webpigeon> TheOpenSourcerer: what I was saying earlier, I don't think that every update will break the API anymore :/
<gord> chances are they will adopt a depreciation model, depreciate old api but keep it around
<TheOpenSourcerer> There are no guarantees - from Mozilla at least.
<webpigeon> which means, guess if it works :P
<Core_UK> can i use gmail + the client ?
<webpigeon> Core_UK: it shouldn't effect gmail?
<webpigeon> s/effect/affect/
<jacobw> the client of what?
<Core_UK> owncloud
<gord> the config stuff in gnome 3 really really sucks
<gord> it shouldn't take that long just to figure out where you change the setting for dimming a laptop screen, then being presented with the ugliest most bare interface ever =\
<webpigeon> gord: the only thing I've had trouble finding is the wireless settings
<webpigeon> gord: I think brightness is in power or monitor, or something like that :P
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://blog.amahi.org/2011/06/21/apple-hits-amahi-with-a-cease-and-desist-wait-what/
<gord> webpigeon, its in "screen" - which is obviously different from "display"
<gord> obviously
<webpigeon> obviously :P
<gord> at least the old config for that didn't look like crap
<webpigeon> TheOpenSourcerer: name the store contest \o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> They should call it apps tore
<webpigeon> TheOpenSourcerer: the store formally known as the app store? :P
<dwatkins> good call, TheOpenSourcerer
<webpigeon> what's wrong with a software repository anyway?
<daubers> Software Bazaar \o/
<webpigeon> daubers++
<dwatkins> Software Emporium
<webpigeon> daubers: only with what that is if canoical gets annoyed and they have to have a rename the ranamed app store
<JGJones> It's Not Apple App Store!
<JGJones> I Can't Believe It's Not Apple App Store
<webpigeon> rename it to iapp store
<JGJones> heh that would really piss Apple off :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Apple Store :-D
<JGJones> The Store
<JGJones> iStore
<webpigeon> JGJones: i think that's what apple calls their buildings where people go to tell apple they're shiny broke
<JGJones> webpigeon, they don't have a name
<JGJones> They just have a logo in front
<MartijnVdS> Just like LEGO stores really
<JGJones> uhoh...how long before LEGO get sued then?
<MartijnVdS> JGJones: no they put their own logo out ;)
<JGJones> I once went into a LEGO store
<webpigeon> JGJones: ah, the only one round here is a 3rd party contractor that went away and came back :(
<MartijnVdS> JGJones: came back a poor man? :)
<JGJones> Just to have a look.
<MartijnVdS> http://stores.lego.com/en-us/London/LandingPage.aspx
<JGJones> Was asked by staff to kindly bugger off, they'll like to go home too :D
<JGJones> I did spend hours in there, built many great structures.
<JGJones> I wisely forgot my wallet that day.
<webpigeon> s/forgot/misplaced intentionally/
<MartijnVdS> I might be visiting the London one next month (when I'm there) -- we don't have them (really) in .nl
<MartijnVdS> http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/sets/72157614289501300/  ;)
<dwatkins> I keep meaning to go to the Lego store in Milton Keynes as we pass by there occasionally.
<JGJones> yeah that's the one I was in.
<JGJones> It's quite small
<MartijnVdS> JGJones: ^^ This is what LEGO is for :)
<dwatkins> aww, proper old castle Lego that's yellow :)
<dwatkins> I started buying up the sets I used to have as a child from ebay.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: early 80s :)
<dwatkins> I also found there's a chess set made of castle Lego :D
<andylockran> it'd be nice if there was a % on dp-release-upgrade
<andylockran> mav -> natty
<JGJones> When I was a kid, I got 4 lego lunar sheets
<webpigeon> dwatkins: :D
<JGJones> best thing ever.
<MartijnVdS> andylockran: it'll get there eventually
<andylockran> MartijnVdS: It's on my work laptop.. and I need to head home soon :p
<MartijnVdS> JGJones: I got lots of roads 8-)
<dwatkins> well, actually there are several, but the huge one is out of my price range for now
<webpigeon> Last lego i used was a robot that couldn't add up.
<MartijnVdS> andylockran: it's a laptop.. it'll upgrade fine in your bag :)
<JGJones> as I was always into sci-fic so getting to build spaceships etc and space structure etc was awesome.
<MartijnVdS> JGJones: are you coming to the scifi (BL) thing as well?
<MartijnVdS> s/are you/will you be/
<dwatkins> JGJones: same here, I had quite a lot of the blue space Lego
<JGJones> is there a link for it?
<MartijnVdS> JGJones: talk to daubers
<andylockran> MartijnVdS: just finished..
<andylockran> typical
<JGJones> dwatkins, mine was mostly grey...well actually loads of colour...lego blocks always just get dumped into one giant box and you dig thru :)
<andylockran> as soon as I complain there's no need to
<MartijnVdS> JGJones: the 24th of July
<MartijnVdS> JGJones: yeah, I have a box like that here :)
<dwatkins> JGJones: I can hear that sound in my head now
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: I rebuilt my old sets for those photos
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: the sound.. it's soothing
<Azelphur> is there any gadget I can use on Ubuntu to detect motion on a webcam?
<Azelphur> security camera style? :P
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: apt-cache show motion
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: like that? :)
<Azelphur> cool :D
<Azelphur> people keep going in the room with my Â£2000 supercomputer in it and stacking boxes and such in there, so I'm just going to put a couple of very loud speakers in there.
<Azelphur> :)
<jacobw> dang, i thought that was going to be *really* cool apt-cache easter egg
<Azelphur> haha
<dwatkins> Azelphur: is it a WOPR?
<Azelphur> WOPR?
<MartijnVdS> WOPR = is a fictional military computer featured in the movie WarGames and its sequel. It is an acronym for War Operation Plan Response.
<Azelphur> haha :P
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: so, how much did you lose in the MtGox hit? :)
<Azelphur> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/May%202011/IMG_20110525_034107.jpg nope, it exists
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: nothing, I don't use mtgox
<ali1234> looking through brikipedia i now realise that i had a LOT of lego
<andylockran> JGJones are you any relation to DJones ?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: omg there's a wiki with all sets? *bookmark*
<ali1234> http://lego.wikia.com/
<MooDoo> hello all
<ali1234> also brickset.com
<dwatkins> there's also peeron, bricklink and brickset
<dwatkins> :)
<ali1234> brickset looks more complete
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: Peeron and Lugnet I knew
<ali1234> i remember saving up tokens to get this: http://www.brickset.com/detail/?Set=6893-1
<webpigeon> I'm getting any work done this evening :P
<dwatkins> ah yes, lugnet, sorry
<ali1234> 4.99 on ebay, that's a travesty
<ali1234> it's worth way more than that
<MooDoo> now there is something i've not heard in awhile WOPR :)
<dwatkins> yeah
<dwatkins> MooDoo: one of my favourite films, that
<MooDoo> dwatkins: don't tell me your password is joshua?
<dwatkins> MooDoo: haha, no
<MooDoo> ;)
<dwatkins> Somewhere in that film the password became the name of the process
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: I had http://lego.wikia.com/wiki/6394_Metro_Park_%26_Service_Tower
<ali1234> so... is there some site that has scans of the instructions of all these sets? or at least parts lists?
<MartijnVdS> Peeron used to have instructions
<MartijnVdS> and part lists
<ali1234> awesome
<dwatkins> it doesn't have them any more?
<ali1234> it still has them
<JGJones> andylockran, heh - no relation to DJones :)
<MartijnVdS> JGJones: As far as you know... :)
<JGJones> we're separated by up to 8 people apparently...so he's a cousin then ;)
<daubers> isn' there a meeting this evening?
<brobostigon> i though meetings were normally thursdays.?
<brobostigon> thought*
<daubers> Did I misread "Thursday" as "Today"?
<brobostigon> today is tuesday.
<MartijnVdS> There's a recording of the podcast today..?
<daubers> Apparently the meeting is tomorrow :)
<brobostigon> ok,
<MooDoo> there is a meeting on now, loco reapprovals
<MooDoo> quite intersting
<MooDoo> daubers: the uk loco team is up for re-approval soon so i'm seeing how it all works :)
<Laney> whatever is reapproval?
<Laney> proving that you are good?
<MooDoo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/LoCoTeamReApproval
<daubers> MooDoo: I read AlanBells message :)
<daubers> MooDoo: Our wiki page looks sad :(
<MooDoo> daubers: that's why i'm there so i can se eothers and what we need to do to make ours look wicked :)
<daubers> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ReApprovalApplication2011
<daubers> Need to get the RAT piccies form last year on there, and the scifi thing on there :)
<MooDoo> i think that's the whole idea of AlanBell getting people to the meeting so we can see what happens and what we need to do
<czajkowski> lol
<MooDoo> czajkowski: ?
<czajkowski> your comment above
<MooDoo> czajkowski: wasn't meant to be funny ;(  sniff
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: "Wasn't it supposed to be funny?" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Apr1PQP0TO4 ;)
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: (it seems I have music for EVERY occasion)
<MooDoo> lol
<MooDoo> so that's what happens when your application page isn't up to date :D
<webpigeon> MooDoo: shotgun?
<MooDoo> webpigeon: not that bad, a chance to try again :)  it's quite good really
<webpigeon> :D
<MooDoo> irish team now, channel just went nuts lol
<webpigeon> good nuts or bad nuts? :P
<MooDoo> lots of support :)
<webpigeon> :)
<czajkowski> MooDoo: you following now :D
<MooDoo> czajkowski: yeah
<czajkowski> awesome application
<MooDoo> czajkowski: seems simple really prepare before hand and sail straight through
<czajkowski> we worked on it over 2 weekends on irc and face to face
<czajkowski> plus we have all events blogged and taken pics of
<czajkowski> so easy to lay our hands on info
<MooDoo> czajkowski: you can tell :)
 * MooDoo is taking notes lol
<MooDoo> czajkowski: simples ;)
<MooDoo> AlanBell: interesting meeting :) liked it
<AlanBell> thought you might :)
<MooDoo> AlanBell: our page needs a LOT of work lol
<AlanBell> it does
<Azelphur> hey awesome, google autocompletes my name now with clear references to me :D
<Azelphur> type azelp, it comes up Azelphur, Azelphur servers, Azelphur irc
<popey> o/
<Azelphur> hehe
<MooDoo> hay popey
<czajkowski> MooDoo: tis cool to get people into the habbit of knowing what happens in the meeting
<czajkowski> sometimes there are agenda items
<czajkowski> sometimes not
<czajkowski> popey: boo
<popey> pooped!
<MooDoo> czajkowski: yeah it was good...
<brobostigon> ok,good night everyone, sleep well.
<MooDoo> brobostigon: laters
<webpigeon> night brobostigon
<czajkowski> popey: join the club
<brobostigon> night MooDoo and webpigeon :)
<czajkowski> chairing a meeting without having dinner is a bad bad bad idea
<MooDoo> czajkowski: SUBLIMINAL MESSAGE.....NANDOS
<MooDoo> ;)
<czajkowski> I know
<MooDoo> laters all
<webpigeon> Laters MooDoo  o/
<bigcalm> popey: know if we can add DNS entries on the superhub?
<bigcalm> My android tablet might be here tomorrow and I'll need to be able to view URLs on my dev server
<JGJones> Hmm...what's a good simple server solution that use asterix?
<JGJones> or something like that?
<JGJones> well...to work with a old fashioned 56K modem
<JGJones> wanting to setup a solution where I could get a computer to dial up a text relay remotely so that I could access it anytime remotely...and MAYBE be able to carry voice for VCO (Voice Carry Over) where I could talk into phone, but replies are in text...but going complicated here...just a solution allowing me to access remotely to dial a 56K modem?
<JGJones> would need an equilivent to hyperterminal on Windows?
<webpigeon> JGJones: i'm not sure but we used miniterm for cisco routers, i know hyperterminal is usually used on windows for that...
<webpigeon> JGJones: minicom sorry, too many things with simlar names
<JGJones> webpigeon, the textphone that I use to call text relay is called a minicom too(!)
<JGJones> mine is actually dated from the 80's and still in use.
<webpigeon> :P
<JGJones> and I hate the goddamn thing.
<JGJones> 1 line display, and I type faster than it can transmit.
<webpigeon> oh dear :(
<JGJones> hyperterminal was one solution...but alas...I don't use Windows :)
<JGJones> so wondered if there was an equlivent software for linux (don't care if it's CLI based)
<JGJones> just need to be able to communicate in V18 protocol
<webpigeon> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minicom or maybe even putty, but i'm not sure putty can do it
<JGJones> or Baudot
<Laney> hmm
<Laney> to kindle with the MSE discount or not to kindle with the MSE discount?
<Core_UK> What is the best dropbox alternative, if anyone has any experience in that area?
<webpigeon> rsync + ssh :P
<bigcalm> SyncAny.org might be, once it's ready
<bigcalm> I'm waiting for windows and linux interfaces to be ready without fiddling then will move away from dropbox
<bigcalm> Might fill up my dropbox account with /dev/random before leaving
<Laney> sparkleshare (H)
<Laney> (might not actually do what you want)
<bigcalm> Spider Oak is another alternative
<webpigeon> file sync is something with seems to have ballooned many projects as of late
 * bigcalm heads to bed
<AlanBell> JGJones: so you want a V18 modem at home or something plugged into a POTS line
<AlanBell> then SSH in and talk to the modem which talks to minicom users
<AlanBell> !info cutecom
<lubotu3> cutecom (source: cutecom): Graphical serial terminal, like minicom. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.22.0-2 (natty), package size 53 kB, installed size 204 kB
<AlanBell> hmm, quite basic
<JGJones> AlanBell, Thanks! I'll check it out
<AlanBell> I don't think I have any hardware at all with a modem now
<AlanBell> a friend of mine has a minicom hardware device, but I think facebook has taken over now
<JGJones> I don't either...would have to get one on ebay
<AlanBell> so you want to use it with a voice relay service or something?
<JGJones> pretty much yes
<JGJones> there's only 1 text relay in UK at the moment - http://www.textrelay.org/
<AlanBell> do they not have other protocol support over IP?
<JGJones> no
<AlanBell> that sucks
<JGJones> BT pay for it - they aren't going to put in any extra money for R&D
<AlanBell> ah, right
<JGJones> In USA - they operate differently - all telecommunication pay into a central "pot" for access services
<AlanBell> probably not R&D costs (I did the research just now, in my head) they just don't want it being used by many people
<JGJones> and out of this - there are many video, text and captioned relays - the more users they have, the bigger share of the pot they get basically.
<JGJones> I've used their services...damn fantastic...even have iPad/Android apps etc.
<JGJones> there are private companies doing the same here, but I have to pay for it
<JGJones> signvideo.co.uk is what I use - but it cost Â£80 a week.
<AlanBell> hmm, ok interesting
<JGJones> for roughly about 2 hours a week.
<JGJones> however that's paid by Access to Work not myself thank feck, but the Gov is cutting AtW fund so it's uncertain if I can continue with it.
<AlanBell> night all o/
<JGJones> night
#ubuntu-uk 2011-06-22
<JGJones> http://news.cnet.com/8301-30685_3-20072845-264/google-building-skype-alike-software-into-chrome/
<JGJones> look interesting...plus as Google claim that WebRTC is open-source/royalty-free too, so I guess Empathy'll support this too if licence permits?
<ali1234> so wait, what is this text relay thing supposed to actually do?
<JGJones> ali1234, what it does? you mean how it works?
<ali1234> what it does, and what exactly it achieves
<JGJones> OK
<ali1234> and how it works
<JGJones> Being deaf it mean I can't hear a telephone. Even if I could hear it, I still can't make it out - all voices are just random noises to me
<JGJones> So I can't use a telephone.
<ali1234> ok
<JGJones> With a text relay, there is a 3rd party operator. In UK - I dial any number with 18001 prefix
<JGJones> this prefix mean it automatically goes to Text Relay (www.textrelay.org) and then dial the usual number I put in after 18001
<JGJones> once it get thru, there's another delay while I wait for an operator to become available (mostly short times...)
<JGJones> depending on the person I'm calling - they might have run out of patience and hung up on me and I'll have to redial or if it's a call centre, wait until the message repeat ;)
<ali1234> ok i get this part
<JGJones> the operator's job is to act as a relay...I type to the operator using a text phone. in text.
<JGJones> The operator then speak what I type to the person I'm calling.
<ali1234> yes, and then they type out the reply to you
<JGJones> The person speak to the operator and the operator relay it to me by typing
<ali1234> this part i understand
<ali1234> so, why do you need a modem dial out?
<JGJones> A video relay does the same thing except that it use BSL (British Sign Language)
<ali1234> yeah, i saw a link to sign language video relay the other day, was it from you?
<JGJones> modem - ok the current technology is that I have to use a rather old minicom (textphone) plugged into phone line to make calls.
<JGJones> yeah that was me - they wanted android app devs so I thought someone here might be interested
<ali1234> ah yeah that was it
<ali1234> ok
<JGJones> however if I'm outside of the house - I can't use text relay
<JGJones> it doesn't work on mobiles
<ali1234> gotcha
<webpigeon> that sucks :(
<JGJones> *must* have a landline with a operator that support the 18001 prefix (most does now)
<ali1234> it sucks cos there's no reason why it can't work... any mobile phone can do modem calls
<JGJones> so I was thinking of setting up a computer with modem...ssh in if I want to make calls etc.
<ali1234> so what you actually need is a piece of software that emulates textphone and runs on linux console
<ali1234> or is textphone just a standard dumb terminal?
<JGJones> ali1234, it could...but you'll need a laptop with the necessary software to use the mobile as a modem and then support the communication protocol that the text relay use.
<ali1234> nah
<ali1234> i bet a N900 could do this standalone if the 18000 prefixes worked from mobile operators
<JGJones> a textphone is basically a minicom unit that use the Baudot or V18 protocol
<JGJones> The old Nokia Communicators was certainly capable of it.
<JGJones> and it use sound to transmit
<Azelphur> JGJones: probably could rig something up with VOIP and asterisk
<Core_UK> anyone have an understanding of openpgp?
<ali1234> you don't need asterisk or voip for this
<JGJones> yes...it make a series of loud beeping noise...thankfully newer units now just plug direct into the line.
<Azelphur> oh ok then :p
<ali1234> all you need is minicom/picocom and a modem
<ali1234> like how we used to connect to BBS in the old days
<JGJones> To be honest I DON'T want to do this, but because the Government is cutting Access to Work fund, I need to seek "cheaper" alternatives just in case
<webpigeon> Core_UK: depends what aspects
<JGJones> Access to Work was actually designed for one off lump sums - ie person in wheel chair - pay for a ramp etc.
<ali1234> well the cheaper alternative is just stop using telephone calls and use IM instead
<Azelphur> JGJones: funny enough, I actually know a couple deaf guys who use android
<JGJones> however for deaf people - it's ongoing support costs that's a drain.
<JGJones> Azelphur, to do what? (got Android myself :))
<Azelphur> JGJones: mostly text based communication
<Azelphur> the deaf guys I know just rely heavily on SMS
<Core_UK> webpigeon: If I sign my mail with my openPGP key how do people know it is me?
<Core_UK> I sent a test mail and it only showed an attachment with random letters/numbers
<JGJones> Azelphur, I've actually had a mobile since 1999 - for SMS then.
<webpigeon> Core_UK: you publish the key on known keyservers
<Azelphur> hehe :)
<Core_UK> webpigeon: i see
<JGJones> Azelphur, rather expensive then. Got even more expensive with 3G video calling about 10 years ago...
<webpigeon> Core_UK: then a pgp aware client can work out if the signed message is signed with your private key using your published public key
<JGJones> Azelphur, now - with android/iOS - there's whatsapp, google talk, Tango (video chat), facetime etc etc so it's getting easier.
<JGJones> Blackberry are surprisingly very popular among the deaf due to BBM.
<Azelphur> :)
<ali1234> GSM data calls from 3G mobiles are rather expensive so an Ip based dialout service is going to be cheapest
<Azelphur> JGJones: I love gtalk with android, I use it a lot :D
<JGJones> Azelphur, now with a tablet, I use Gtalk for video chat too
<Azelphur> JGJones: you hear gtalk video chat is coming to phones too soon?
<Core_UK> webpigeon: do you know if I could send an email to a person so only they could see using openpgp?
<ali1234> n900 already has it
<ali1234> Azelphur: ^
<ali1234> skype video too, for like a year now
<Azelphur> yea, n900 is kinda abandoned now though
<ali1234> it was abandoned at birth
<ali1234> it still works as good today as it did then
<Azelphur> indeed :(
<ali1234> as a skype wifi phone you can't beat it
<webpigeon> Core_UK: if you have their public key, you can encrypt your message using their public key and the person has to have the private key to decrypt it
<ali1234> the built in skype works better than the PC client does even on windows
<Core_UK> webpigeon: ok great, thanks :)
<ali1234> JGJones: is there like a loopback textphone test service?
<webpigeon> <sidenote>Wonder if you could replace it with a speach to text & text to speech system on a box somewhere :/</sidenote>
<ali1234> the hardest thing about setting this up is going to be finding a modem with drivers that still work on a recent linux
<webpigeon> ali1234: most modems are really dumb?
<ali1234> not any more
<webpigeon> awww :(
<ali1234> most modems are now softmodems
<ali1234> = winmodems
<ali1234> loads of them don't work
<webpigeon> winmodems = lose :(
<ali1234> and nobody cares because nobody uses modems any more
<ali1234> although i just remembered i have a couple of standalone serial modems
<webpigeon> ali1234: if that were true we'd not be having this convosation :P
<ali1234> hey what's this on textrelay.org
<ali1234> http://www.texbox.co.uk/
<JGJones> ali1234, I don't think there's a loopback service
<ali1234> is there some automated phone line that i can ring without annoying anyone?
<JGJones> hmm
<JGJones> I can plug in my minicom and enable it to autoanswer
<ali1234> could try that tomorrow
<JGJones> you should get a message from it "caller not at home, leave a message GA" something like that
<ali1234> or some time
<JGJones> communication protocol for minicoms are in baudcot or V18 as far as I can remember
<ali1234> internet says v.18
<JGJones> my biggest issue really for me is having someone call me.
<ali1234> how does that fit in?
<JGJones> I never give out my number, I can't answer voice calls.
<ali1234> ok, so why would anyone call you?
<JGJones> if I used text relay exclusively, then my number would be 1800201234567890
<JGJones> 18002 is the prefix for a hearing person to call someone deaf via text relay
<JGJones> as for why would anyone call me - cos they love me :)
<ali1234> but... ok
<JGJones> seriously - I'll like to start a business :)
<ali1234> so someone calls you using the relay
<ali1234> your modem answers and gets the text
<ali1234> and sends it to your mobile over jabber
<JGJones> and obviously having a number for someone to call is a no-brainer for any businesses
<JGJones> jabber...hmm...sound great....
<ali1234> the whole thing can be done over jabber
<ali1234> in fact someone probably already did it
<JGJones> currently I'm use a London based number with a 4 digit extension for people to call me - this goes to SignVideo actually (hence london number) and leave a message
<ali1234> hell, it's probably how that texbox product works
<JGJones> texbox - it's usually used by councils etc
<JGJones> for example Bristol - http://goo.gl/8M76X
<ali1234> http://code.google.com/p/jabber-terminal/
<ali1234> ^ that's pretty much all you need
<JGJones> one issue with jabber....
<JGJones> I assume that incoming calls would be automatically answered and goes onto jabber?
<ali1234> no
<JGJones> no?
<ali1234> an incoming call would cause the terminal emulator to emit "RINGRING" message
<ali1234> which would then go to you over jabber
<ali1234> you would need to type 'ATA' to make the modem answer
<JGJones> Ah...that would work...
<ali1234> the devil is of course in the detail but i think this is very much doable
<JGJones> just need a jabber client that would actually make my phone vibrate the hell out of my pants instead of 2 brief vibrate I get
<ali1234> yeah that too
<ali1234> details :)
<JGJones> but yeah...details...
<JGJones> I could also make calls using jabber too...
<ali1234> yeah just "ATDT18001....."
<JGJones> would be perfect as an alternative solution
<ali1234> this all hinges on whether a normal modem and terminal emulator can act like a textphone. but i see no reason why it can't
<JGJones> It can - well at least on Windows, you could use any modem with Hyperterminal
<ali1234> well if hyperterminal can do it then linux can do it for sure
<JGJones> to use typetalk
<JGJones> text relay (typetalk's the old name for it)
<JGJones> some other chap earlier on mentioned cutecom
<JGJones> !cutecom
<webpigeon> !package cutecom
<ali1234> !info cutecom
<lubotu3> cutecom (source: cutecom): Graphical serial terminal, like minicom. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.22.0-2 (natty), package size 53 kB, installed size 204 kB
<ali1234> yeah you don't want a graphical one for this
<webpigeon> damned bots
<ali1234> you want a text console only one, so it can be forwarded over jabber/xmpp
<JGJones> !info minicom
<lubotu3> minicom (source: minicom): friendly menu driven serial communication program. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.5-1 (natty), package size 278 kB, installed size 1164 kB
<JGJones> like that one?
<ali1234> so minicom, picocom, microcom, maybe even cu
<webpigeon> ali1234: or a software interface which can talk telepathy?
<ali1234> maybe even a direct jabber-tty bridge would be even better
<ali1234> webpigeon: yeah ^
<ali1234> that would involve coding though :)
<webpigeon> true
<webpigeon> Wonder if there is a tty library for c/c++ :/
<ali1234> prototype it with jabber-terminal and see what problems you hit, then you'll know what not to do if you implement it directly
<ali1234> programming tty is trivial
<webpigeon> never done it
<ali1234> you've never used stdout?
<webpigeon> yeah, but that's just an output stream
<ali1234> that's all a tty is
<ali1234> input stream, output stream
<webpigeon> \o/
<webpigeon> so to forward it over telepathy is pretty trivial then, and considering telepathy will do the jabber stuff...
<ali1234> sure
<webpigeon> why hasn't anyone done that :/
<ali1234> well jabber-terminal pretty much has
<webpigeon> goodo
<JGJones> cos there's not many deaf people using linux :)
<webpigeon> i mean it's basiclly just echoing input and output over jabber
<ali1234> there's a guy in this channel who has a highlight set on jabber and xmpp... one of the matt* guys i think
<webpigeon> MattJ
<ali1234> he seems to know a lot about jabber anyway, can probably give some useful advice
<webpigeon> Jabber \o/ (rebbaj as well if he's not removed it)
<webpigeon> next time i decide to type telepathy into google and expect meaningful results - :/
<webpigeon> although that is my 3rd year project :P
<ali1234> wow i just found out there is something called "ToIP"
<ali1234> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Text_over_IP
<webpigeon> text over IRC :P
<JGJones> ali1234, ToIP - it's actually real-time text
<ali1234> yeah
<Muionix> connect irc.anonops.li
<JGJones> not like IRC - type a sentence, click send etc. Instead each character is sent instanstly.
<ali1234> i found a page where there's a bio of a guy who apparently works on tty-toip bridges for cisco
<ali1234> tty is real time too
<ali1234> jabber is not
<ali1234> that could be a problem
<webpigeon> send and recv on end of line markers?
<webpigeon> assuming it has them...
<ali1234> jabber does, yeah
<ali1234> splits messages into packets
<JGJones> ali1234, the difference between tty and ToIP is that...when I am typing in textphone, the other end cannot interrupt etc.
<ali1234> but if the person does not hit enter after typing a line
<ali1234> then you won't see it
<JGJones> real time - both person can type and both see characters etc instantly
<ali1234> i would guess that is just a limitation of the textphone interface
<webpigeon> JGJones: when you get messages on your text phone, do they appear char by char or as lines
<JGJones> webpigeon, yes char by char
<webpigeon> ah I see
<JGJones> but you can't type anything until they've finished
<webpigeon> so there must be some kind of finished signal then?
<JGJones> ToIP allow for two way real time conversation
<JGJones> no
<JGJones> I think it's more that the protocol is so slow, it's not easy to interrupt
<JGJones> (and that on a minicom I have a single line of text display)
<webpigeon> ah, okies
<JGJones> a bit like calling call centres?
<webpigeon> ali1234: that might be a problem then (if you can't tell when a message has finsihed, you can't foward it on to jabber)
<JGJones> press 1 for annoying twat and music, press 2 for more crap, press 3 fo......press 32351 for others
<JGJones> on a minicom I have to WAIT until they've relayed the entire thing.
<webpigeon> :/
<JGJones> ToIP would mean I could just say 2 GA and be done with it.
<JGJones> GA = it's a shortcut on text conversations, just mean "Go Ahead, your turn"
<webpigeon> so there is a kind of unoffical end of message?
<JGJones> when you've done your waffle - GA at end for next person's turn
<webpigeon> like \r\n in irc messages
<webpigeon> okay, apples and oranges
<JGJones> it's pretty much the official textphone-speak to use GA at end of your speak as it let the other person that they can finally start typing.
<JGJones> and when the call is finished - SKSK (Stop Keying)
<webpigeon> So it could use it as a signal to send the message to jabber?
<JGJones> well if I was typing in jabber I would just say "hello how are you, it's joe here ga"
<JGJones> they reply....ga
<JGJones> yeah I won the lottery, gonna buy the moon ga
<JGJones> they reply...ga
<webpigeon> exactly
<JGJones> and so on
<JGJones> sometime a bad habit...when I started using IM, I kept using ga all the time.
<webpigeon> I was just thinking from a technical point of view, as to how to tell that it was time to send the message (because you can't send letter by letter)
<JGJones> yeah...ga/sksk was used because even though a minicom might do it letter by letter you still couldn't get a letter in while the other party is talking
<JGJones> 1 way
<webpigeon> I see
<ali1234> ok i need to get back to my excel spreadsheet
<ali1234> but some time i'll look into this
<webpigeon> Yeah, I should probably sleep, but it seems like it's something very do-able
<JGJones> sleep? what's that?
<JGJones> !info sleep
<lubotu3> Package sleep does not exist in natty
<JGJones> thought so.
<zaahir> good night ! how are you ?
<AlanBell> morning all
<diplo> Morning AlanBell, Morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Is it possible for HMG be more incompetent? http://blogs.computerworlduk.com/the-tony-collins-blog/2011/06/officials-write-off-874000-on-rushed-website/index.htm
<MartijnVdS> I'd like to make Â£800k on a website
<TheOpenSourcerer> I can't believe we (UKGov) are just _so_ rubbish.
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: Dutch gov isn't much better
<TheOpenSourcerer> ~Â£1m on a website! that didn't bloody work.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not only that but rather than getting the money back from the suppliers they just write it off.
<MartijnVdS> We've had several multi-million migrations to new systems cancelled because the new system didn't work
<AlanBell> yeah, they are scared of their suppliers because the suppliers will sue them
<AlanBell> because the suppliers get paid so much they can afford masses of lawyers
<AlanBell> hmm, home office thing
 * AlanBell is presenting a proposal at the home office next week
<TheOpenSourcerer> Might want to tell them that websites don't generally cost nearly a million.
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: or I might want to put the price up
<AlanBell> by Â£874,000
<TheOpenSourcerer> I also wonder what "rushed" implies? The story indicated the project went live in 2007 and crashed repeatedly until 2009. What's rushed about that nit?
<TheOpenSourcerer> s/nit/bit
<dwatkins> hiya
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: governments think in 4-5 year increments
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: <4 = rushed
<MooDoo> hello all
<MartijnVdS> howdy MooDoo
<MooDoo> :)
<DJones> Morning all
<MooDoo> DJones: morning
<DJones> Hi MooDoo
<MooDoo> morning allhay hay
<MooDoo> oops
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol: http://techbuket.net/376
<MooDoo> very good
<MooDoo> !lococouncil
<MooDoo> lol oops wrong channel
<popey> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning popey
<oimon> TheOpenSourcerer: that story is depressing
<andylockran> Good Morning! :)
<AlanBell> http://paulmellors.blogspot.com/2011/06/loco-council-meeting.html
<AlanBell> MooDoo: good summary, bung that to the list as well
<MooDoo> thanks will do
<AlanBell> and s/post/pre/
<oimon> my employer thinks that teaming up with big suppliers means they are experts and it will be a success. my experience is that i've ended up training those guys myself
<AlanBell> oimon: they are experts, but not experts at doing the job
<AlanBell> they are experts at getting the job
<MooDoo> AlanBell: ok post corrected thanks
<popey> MooDoo: "their"
<popey> not "our"?
<MooDoo> arrrggghhh :)
<MooDoo> popey: ah i get you :)
<daubers> Morning
<MooDoo> i think i'll change that sentence :
<popey> the last sentence
<MooDoo> I've changed it.
<popey> gotcha
<bigcalm> "Out for delivery"
 * bigcalm stares out of the window for the rest of the day
<MooDoo> bigcalm: awwwwwww ;)
 * DJones throws an egg at the window ....Splat
<popey> 23:03:24 < bigcalm> popey: know if we can add DNS entries on the superhub?
<popey> no idea
<czajkowski> morning
<MooDoo> morning czajkowski
<daubers> o/ czajkowski
<czajkowski> MooDoo: nice blog post
<MooDoo> czajkowski: thanks
<czajkowski> MooDoo: you do know anyone from any team can come to a loco council meeting at any time and raise issues? not just for re approvals ?
 * daubers waits for wiki.ubuntu.com to sign me in
<DJones> This make my wife happy, ITV have released a player app for Android
<MooDoo> czajkowski: i'm still learning ;) i do now :D
<daubers> DJones: \o/ I'm getting 1 android phones in the next 2 weeks
<czajkowski> MooDoo: no tis cool, many people don't realise that
<daubers> s/1/2/
<DJones> daubers: http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/40651/itv-player-app-lands-on-android
<czajkowski> you don't have to be a loco contact to attend and voice stuff except when we're voting or discussing a team
<czajkowski> but people can raise issues and add to the agenda
<bigcalm> popey: I have to either add host entries to the router or the tablet. Without rooting the tablet, not sure that's possible
<MooDoo> czajkowski: all interesting stuff :D
<daubers> bigcalm: Or get your router to hand out dns addresses to a different DNS server
<bigcalm> daubers: indeed, but I haven't found an option to add or edit DNS server IPs
<daubers> :-/
<daubers> VM suck
<bigcalm> In this instance, yes
<BigRedS> I thought that was the general case?
<bigcalm> That said, the replacement modem/router hasn't dropped my connection since insterlation
<daubers> BigRedS: Personally I believe it is
<davmor2> morning all
<MooDoo> davmor2: morning
<davmor2> MooDoo: 'ow you diddling
<MooDoo> davmor2: crackin lad
<daubers> *sigh* _still_ "Waiting for wiki.ubuntu.com"
<davmor2> MooDoo: is it just me or do you automatically hear Wallace's voice when you read the Crackin'  and do you also expect to hear "Cheese Gromit" after it
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Paul Mellors] LoCo Council Meeting - http://paulmellors.blogspot.com/2011/06/loco-council-meeting.html
<MooDoo> davmor2: that's what i think when i say it :D  nice bit of wendleydale
<davmor2> MooDoo: :D
<daubers> Ooooh.... cheese
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski to see if she's with us
 * czajkowski rolls over and goes back to sleep 
<bigcalm> czajkowski: that's what you get for having mass so late :
<bigcalm> :P
<bigcalm> My better half has the day off and tweeted "But a day off at home comes with tea-fairy duties!"
<bigcalm> Damn straight it does!
<MooDoo> bigcalm: oh yeah!
<MooDoo> lol
<Laney> Tesco have sold out of Â£20 off kindles :(
<DJones> I'm more & more tempted by a Kindle, although can't decide whether the extra Â£40 for 3G is worth it, its not as if its a tablet that I'd use for web access
<DJones> Laney: Have you got a link for the offer so I can have a look
<gord> why would you ever need 3g on a kindle?
<popey> buying books abroad
<popey> using internet when not at home
<popey> when sat in an airport
<popey> lots of reasons
<Laney> DJones: http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/deals/cheap-ebook-readers-kindles#kindle
<DJones> I'd agree with the downloading books when not at home/near a wifi station
<Laney> try tomorrow morning I guess
<gord> all of which can be combated by waiting five minutes until you find wifi
<MartijnVdS> popey: I just load my e-book reader with 200 books -- I'll run out of battery before I run out of books to read :)
<gord> or if you have your phone and your phone does tethering
<popey> gord: airport wifi is almost always pay-for
<daubers> \o/ tethering
<popey> and I go plenty of places where there is no wifi
<popey> e.g. daughters ballet school
<popey> sit there for an hour bored out of my skull
<Laney> I'm hardly ever in range of usable free wifi when away from home/work
<popey> or, go online via 3g
<czajkowski> annoying dublin airport you pay for wifi
<czajkowski> shannon small ickle airport free
 * daubers kicks wiki.ubuntu.com and gives up
<gord> i'm just saying that i'v had my kindle for about a year and not once have i thought "i need an internet connection on this right now"
<popey> people in different use cases non-shocker
<Laney> although, apparently there's colour e-ink displays now
<Laney> maybe this is a ploy to dump old stock :-O
<MooDoo> daubers: oooo it is slow isn't it
<popey> although having said that, i haven't actually touched my kindle since I got an ipad
<gord> not heard of any colour e-ink devices yet, maybe i'm out of the loop, every "ereader" (that i have seen for the pedantic peoples) labelled as colour has been an lcd display
<Laney> fiver and a packet of salt n shake for it?
<popey> oooo
<popey> tempting
<popey> I _love_ salt n shake
<daubers> popey: They _will_ blend!
<MooDoo> little blue salt bag :D
<popey> I'll probably take it on holiday in Aug and then get rid
<daubers> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAl28d6tbko
<Laney> https://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/08/technology/08ink.html
<MooDoo> daubers: i HATE that man and blend site.....grrrrrr
<daubers> MooDoo: I love it
<daubers> !
<daubers> Destroying stuff is what the interwebs is for!
<MooDoo> daubers: not when you want stuff he's blending....what a waste
<daubers> MooDoo: but I want the blender :(
<MooDoo> lol
<daubers> Or this
<daubers> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200622592260&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:GB:1123
<MooDoo> now that looks good
<daubers> Woot!
<daubers> Another house viewing booked
<nigelb> daubers: buying or selling? :-)
<daubers> nigelb: Buying
<directhex> make sure there are no bodies buried under the floorboards. be sure to ask.
<MartijnVdS> Also, strange-coloured stains
<MartijnVdS> Also, muffled sounds from the basement
<DJones> & broadband speed/cabled area
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: liminol on the walls and floors ;)
<bigcalm_> Humm, what's with the connection drops?
<bigcalm_> Not restricted to freenode
 * bigcalm eyes VM
<daubers> DJones: it's in an area covered by BT Infinity
<DJones> daubers: Was that investigated before looking for houses that would be in Infinity area
<directhex> has anyone got infinity yet?
<daubers> MartijnVdS: I';d be surprised if it had a basement
<daubers> DJones: There may be a map at home with that marked on...... there may be not
<daubers> directhex: Yup. BT where complaining about how long it takes to roll out. Some people have FTTP from BT, but that takes 2 engineers 7 hours to install per house (apparently)
<directhex> daubers, i meant anyone here
<MartijnVdS> also, lots of fibre engineers are being "hoarded" by a Dutch company (I've seen crews from 6 or 7 countries digging fibre in my town)
<directhex> daubers, and i'd love to know what BT's plan is if i ever need to call them out again to fix my line. apparently they've already written off one of the two copper pairs in my wall as defective.
<MartijnVdS> directhex: Aren't they legally required to pull new wire if the current one is beyond repair?
<dogmatic69> what does this mean? http://bin.cakephp.org/view/899144919
<directhex> MartijnVdS, yes. the wiring is their property, after all. i just wonder *how* they'd fix it
<daubers> directhex: They'll probably run a new one from the nearest mast.
<daubers> directhex: That's what they did for me when I was in Swansea
<directhex> daubers, it's all underground until the cabinet
<daubers> directhex: Then it should be ducted
<daubers> directhex: That, or they'll put up a mast :)
<MooDoo> ping AlanBell
<oimon> is it safe to defrost bacon in the microwave?
 * oimon feeling rather unwell today
<JGJones> not really
<JGJones> as bacon cook quickly, you'll be actually part-cooking it rather than defrosting
<oimon> i gave it a good nuke when i cooked it though
<oimon> still feel nauseous though :(
<JGJones> I've cooked bacon in the microwave in the past just fine.
<dogmatic69> JGJones: most bacon is smoked afaik, and thus already cooked
<TheOpenSourcerer> I've defrosted bacon in the microwave before.
<Laney> me too, very many times
<Laney> students...
<JGJones> just not for defrosting - however I don't have a microwave anymore
<oimon> i do have a rather sensitive tummy
<TheOpenSourcerer> As with most meats - just make sure you cook it properly.
 * TheOpenSourcerer happens to have a cast-iron stomach.
<JGJones> students...fun....along with mislabelled tins (a common prank is to swap labels around)
<oimon> common cause of fire alarm on campus was due to first year students microwaving tins of beans without opening
<oimon> 1) they are metal 2) they explode
<dogmatic69> no medium rare pork, mkay
<MooDoo> medium rare?  pah!
<MooDoo> oh i read pork as steak
<MooDoo> :)
<dogmatic69> stake should be passed over the pan, without actually touching it
<oimon> if i had proper food poisoning i would have known at 4am
<MooDoo> dogmatic69: BLUE steak :D
<dogmatic69> oimon: had any salad? head its a killer lately
<oimon> nah
<oimon> it's for girls
 * dogmatic69 hides his lunch :S
<JGJones> steaks...hmm..I'm hungry...
<JGJones> hoping to go to France this summer - depends if I can grab some time at my dad's place...buffulo farm a few miles away...
 * TheOpenSourcerer had a rather large rib-eye on Sunday (Cooked Medium Rare BTW)
<AlanBell> o/ MooDoo
<MooDoo> :) hello AlanBell
<oimon> it's funny how it's considered sophisticated to eat rare meat
 * oimon doesn't succumb to peer pressure
<JGJones> oimon, news to me....I've always had mine rare from a young age.
<MooDoo> i love blue steak and then it's not raw enough
<JGJones> I second that :)
<daubers> You people are weird
<MooDoo> lol
<MooDoo> no you're wierd :p
<AlanBell> steak tastes best if it looks like a decent vet could get it back up on it's feet with a bucket of hot water some soap and a towel
<daubers> Seriously... man created fire for a reason.
<dogmatic69> AlanBell++
<MooDoo> daubers: yeah to keep you walm :)
<daubers> MooDoo: And to ensure dinner is dead
<DJones> daubers: Sure, so you can see what you're eating at night
<popey> mmmmm blue steak
<MooDoo> daubers: what's this dead you're referring to?
<popey> might get some steak on the way home to night i think
<daubers> You bunch of weirdies :p
<TheOpenSourcerer> One should note that red meats are generally OK rare. White meats and Pork need to be well cooked
<popey> where "well cooked" != "burnt to a crisp"
<popey> ooooo!
<popey> just remembered I have some nice big prawns in the freezer
<AlanBell> and tasty little fishies can be eaten raw if fresh and appropriately cleaned
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh blimey - here we go again: http://www.boingboing.net/2011/06/22/leaked-uk-copyright.html?dlvrit=36761
<bigcalm> I do a lovely and moist pork steak 'n stuffing
<popey> mmmm fishies
<TheOpenSourcerer> Apparently "moist" is one of the most popular words in the English language.
<bigcalm> AlanBell: best frozen 1st to kill off bacteria
<popey> mmmmm moist
<bigcalm> Damn it VM!
<oimon> crisps
<oimon> crispy :P
<popey> might do some prawns in a light batter tonight
<JGJones> can't stand white meat that are so well cooked they're more dry than the driest place on earth
<popey> ditto JGJones
<bigcalm> The router part is going weird. I lose connection to my dev box as well as the 'net
<oimon> slow cooked meats are the best. you could slap a piece of leather in a slow cooker and it will come out succulent
<JGJones> oimon, that's true...I bought a slow cooker as a student
<TheOpenSourcerer> succulent is another good word
<dogmatic69> #cooking-uk
<JGJones> turns out to be a big mistake.
<oimon> we cook 50% of our meals in a slow cooker
<oimon> curry, casserole, pasta sauce
<dogmatic69> oimon: i dont have enough foresight for that
<JGJones> as everything  I put in, after a day when I come home, it's all bloody eaten.
<oimon> lol
<JGJones> and I am left with just the smell wafting around. And a tin of beans. sigh.
<MooDoo> dogmatic69: pah fell for it again
<oimon> wifey has a knack for churning out curries that are at least as nice as my favourite curry house
<dogmatic69> MooDoo: lol
<oimon> typical that the only night she isn't around for dinner i get a gippy tummy
<dogmatic69> s/shes not around/im left to fend for my self/
<dogmatic69> :D
<oimon> i used to be a good cook
<oimon> haven't cooked for ages though
<oimon> no time
<dogmatic69> my take-aways are awesome
<JGJones> I like to cook...I think I do pretty well
<dogmatic69> cant beat them
<s-fox> Good day.
<dogmatic69> o/
<MooDoo> s-fox: greetings :)
<s-fox> Hello dogmatic69 . How are you?
<s-fox> MooDoo! :)
<s-fox> How you doing?
<kvarley> Why can't I download my purchased music to banshee? This is outrageous! I didn't realise there were limits on how many times you can download it
<MooDoo> s-fox: fab thanks :)
<kvarley> Ubuntu going down the subscriptions path was a bad idea =/
<oimon> ?
<MooDoo> s-fox: whats new?
<bigcalm> Yay, tablet is here \o/
<MooDoo> s-fox: how did you do on your poker night?
 * bigcalm wills it to charge more quickly
<oimon> bigcalm: the kugon?
<s-fox> MooDoo:  It went really well thanks - http://twitter.com/#!/_Silver_Fox_/status/82539393793003520
<JGJones> kvarley, you mean from Ubuntu music store? it does tell you on download screen how many downloads left
<bigcalm> oimon: Kogan, yes
<oimon> i always forget the name...i keep thinking of dagon the amorite fish god http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dagon
<kvarley> JGJones: Yeah, just shocked by the limit is all.
<bigcalm> It's heavier than I had expected
<popey> photos!
<oimon> bigcalm: that may be good - more battery :)
<MooDoo> s-fox: fab, mental note, never play with you
<kvarley> JGJones: I clicked the Subscribe button and it's now syncing. Has that charged me money?
<s-fox> MooDoo:  I am okay thank you, trolling the ubuntu forums listening to Jean Michel Jarre
<bigcalm> Hopefully that indicates a beefy battery
<MooDoo> s-fox: oxygene?
<s-fox> Had that on earlier. Got magnetic fields on atm :)
<davmor2> s-fox: Popcorn
<directhex> built a new pc at the weekend \o/
<MooDoo> directhex: yay
<s-fox> MooDoo:  Poker is easy, if you can quickly work out chance and read people.
<directhex> MooDoo, it's wifey's though. not mine. i have no pc powers.
<oimon> JGJones: got my transcend class 10 sd card :)
<bigcalm> popey: http://twitter.com/#!/bigcalm/statuses/83487250150735872
<MooDoo> s-fox: i'm rubbish at it :) lol
<s-fox> MooDoo:  lol , practice.  play me ;)
<MooDoo> s-fox: looking at that twitter update.....no chance i was to be left with something lol
<directhex> http://yfrog.com/z/gzjrmcpzj
<MooDoo> nice kit
<directhex> http://i.imgur.com/BK7mqh.jpg
<MooDoo> windows?
<bigcalm> Pizza \o/
<MooDoo> yay
<directhex> MooDoo, wife runs windows on her desktop.
<MartijnVdS> awww
<MooDoo> directhex: mine does too
<DJones> Mine doesn't :)
<oimon> mine runs ubuntu
<DJones> oimon: +1
<oimon> she asked for it, cos it was faster and less annoying popup notifications
 * daubers runs OS X on his desktop.....
<oimon> and the windows wobble
<directhex> not much gaming to be done on an ubuntu box. otherwise she'd go for that
<MooDoo> directhex: xbox and wii is for gaming :)
<gord> i hate the pop ups in windows, its like bloody clippy, they just got rid of the cartoon
<directhex> MooDoo, wife likes kb+m, not joypads
<andylockran> TheOpenSourcerer: Cheers for the recommendation of Joomla.
<DJones> directhex: Mine is always playing games on farcebook
<andylockran> Looks to be quite user-friendly for creating content.
<MooDoo> DJones: bejeweled
<oimon> gord: especially when there's installshield, adobe, java, roxio, and windows update all popping up within 20 secs of each other "hey updates here"
<daubers> I was talking about that with a chap I know who does some gaming stuff. He reckons that part of the problem is that there is no standard IDE for building those kind of things in Linux.
<daubers> Was an interesting PoV
<MooDoo> daubers: http://www.tuxgames.com/
<DJones> MooDoo: Nah, city/farm/jungle/insert random comment-ville games
<directhex> DJones, well, yes, facebook games. i mean real games.
<DJones> directhex: To her, they are real games, almost real life at times :)
<directhex> daubers, i don't think that's it at all. especially given some consoles have traditionally used linux-based development environments
<directhex> daubers, it comes down to simple economics
<daubers> directhex: I don't think it's the whole of the problem, maybe a small part
<DJones> Tried to get her interested in Minecraft, but she decided that it was too complex and she wouldn't have the patience/ability for it
<directhex> daubers, paying a dev to make a linux version costs money. even if they do it free of charge, you need the support structure in place to support it. and linux support costs more than windows support due to infinite variability - why spend that on a tiny market?
<directhex> wifey is currently playing mass effect 2.
<daubers> directhex: Also, those consoles would provide (I suspect) some mangled version of eclipse as their IDE with standard components and bits. Where as doing that for a linux distribution will be a lot more spread out tool wise
<oimon> why do we always try to get our wives interested in stuff we like? my wife never tries to get me knitting
<directhex> daubers, less the IDE, more the libs. even the games that *do* exist for linux don't usually run anymore after a year or two, due to lib changes
<daubers> directhex: Just thought it was an interesting point :)
<directhex> oimon, we were playing videogames together in our teens. no coercion.
<gord> a year or two is a bit misleading
<gord> maybe 5-8 years
<directhex> gord, they already target old versions of libs, to have a chance of working on the greatest number of distros
<directhex> nobody wants a "your libc is too old" message
<gord> games tend to rely on very little libraries, basically sdl -> X and audiolibraryfoo -> alsa
<s-fox> Amazing video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJIXXyQYyHA
<JGJones> so copying OSX's packaging method would work for games? everything self-contained
<gord> that is pretty much how games are shipped
<directhex> JGJones, except for the one thing they don't copy, that'll break, guaranteed.
<gord> its not copying, its just "having it all in the same directory"
<gord> its been done for years
<directhex> i've seen games break by shipping their own libpng, fr'example, rather than using the distro one
<daubers> AlanBell: One of your twitter links doesn't make sense
<AlanBell> daubers: which one?
<gord> in the end, closed software has a shelf-life, hard to get old windows games working on windows too
<daubers> AlanBell: http://t.co/hddljPz <- That one, just takes me to a sign in page
<directhex> yeah, some windows games are hard to get working. some are pretty much impossible
 * daubers has gone back to board games
<directhex> i love the irony that older games are often easier to coax than newer ones
<directhex> e.g. maddeningly, Broken Sword 1-3 are fine on a dualcore cpu, 4 is not
<AlanBell> daubers: ok, will fix, should link to this http://www.publiccontractsscotland.gov.uk/Search/show/Search_View.aspx?ID=JUN093903
<daubers> AlanBell: Oooh... more interested now. danfish would probably also be interested I suspect
<AlanBell> yeah, I have registered interest and emailed the chap running it
<daubers> Cool :)
<AlanBell> I understand Canonical have too
<dwatkins> AlanBell: I am interested to know how that goes - reminds me of when the Munich council chose Linux for their desktops
<AlanBell> yeah, interesting that it is in Scotland
<dwatkins> (this was about 8 years ago, I don't know how the project is going)
<dwatkins> I live in Scotland.
<AlanBell> they tend to like to not repeat the mistakes made south of the border
<dwatkins> Since moving here, I've noticed that compared to England, some things work significantly better north of the border.
<danfish> ahoy, hoy! Who's taking my name in vain ;)
 * danfish scrolls up 
<dwatkins> Buying and selling property being the major difference I've noticed.
<oimon> i see a similar thing with denmark - however a country of 5m people is manageable
<danfish> AlanBell: that looks very interesting
<AlanBell> dwatkins: well the whole separate legal system
<AlanBell> not entirely sure how the scottish NHS relates to the rest of the UK NHS
<danfish> the NHS in scotland is very different to England
<danfish> *very*
<dwatkins> http://www.muenchen.de/Rathaus/referate/dir/limux/89256/index.html - more information on LiMux, there may be a translation on there, or just use googletranslate
<dogmatic69> how can i make something like *.site.dev work on my localhost?
<dwatkins> yeah, danfish? I have only experienced it from the perspective of donating blood and a brief visit to a GP, which both seemed similar to England
<dogmatic69> that in hosts is fail
<danfish> none of the same political garbage - no commissioning, etc
<BigRedS> Oh, name resolution
<BigRedS> I think you'd likely need a local DNS resolver
<oimon> On 04/13/2011 it was time: half of the planned computer workstations, namely 6000, are migrated to a Linux operating system.
<bigcalm> Finally goto use my tablet. It's like having a bigger phone that can't make phone calls
<danfish> dwatkins: at the point of contact - ie the GP etc, much the same, but behind the scenes, waaay different
<BigRedS> q
<bigcalm> s/goto/got to/
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: is that hard to setup?
<dwatkins> danfish: aha I see
<BigRedS> not especially so, no. There's probably several tutorials
<BigRedS> it's not simple, but it's not fiendishly difficult either
 * danfish has often thought of relocating north of the border, but can't get Mrs Fish to agree
<TheOpenSourcerer> andylockran: NP
<daubers> danfish: Very hard to migrate back afterwards.... (as my aunt is finding out)
<TheOpenSourcerer> nom nom - left over curry for lunch :-D
<danfish> daubers: I can imagine. I'd just keep heading further North until I encountered reindeer ;)
<danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: how are the chilis doing?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hi danfish - OK Thanks. Flowers on some - plants seem quite happy.
<danfish> :)
<gord> graze.com have invented raspberry cranberries and blueberry yoghurt raisins. its the greatest thing ever
<bigcalm> I really should take graze off my highlight list
<DJones> AlanBell: TheOpenSourcerer Just noticed this http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/22/health_boss_goes/
<danfish> g
<AlanBell> DJones: yeah, surprisingly it appears heads are rolling
<danfish> "Connelly's interim replacement is Katie Davis. She previously revelled in the title of executive director of operational excellence in the Efficiency and Reform Group. Prior to that she worked on ID cards at the Home Office"
<danfish> worked on ID cards. Ok good lord :(
<danfish> s/ok/oh
<oimon> has anyone used cryptoluks to encrypt folders in ubuntu one? don't wanna have to install truecrypt on all my pcs
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: have you got a name of one / link i can look at? all im finding is dns issues :/
<danfish> oimon: I thought cryptoluks was for partitions than folder?
<oimon> danfish: i use it for my memory stick partition . was hoping it could find i way to encrypt a folder within ubuntu one
<danfish> I used to do the same with a memory stick, and then use freeOTFE on windows as needed. Worked well.
<daubers> Bah, I hate blacklist companies
<danfish> oimon:  I think for folders, encfs may be more suitable
<TheOpenSourcerer> DJones: You on twitter? What's your twitter name?
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: djbdns or bind?
<BigRedS> bind's more popular
<dogmatic69> thanks
<daubers> ARGHHHH
<BigRedS> daubers: are you on the extorting sort's list?
<daubers> You can always tell a dodgy blacklisting company by the fact they use a self signed cert and have a whole page you have to agree to to convince you their cert is trustworthy
<DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: DG_Jones
<DJones> For twitter
<daubers> BigRedS: It's some company called SORBS
<oimon> danfish: thanks i will check encfs
<TheOpenSourcerer> ty DJones
<daubers> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spam_and_Open_Relay_Blocking_System#Criticism :(
<MooDoo> daubers: SORBS pah!!!!! :(
<BigRedS> I propose an rbl blacklist
<dogmatic69> is there any way to get the dns server name? tutorial is telling me to change ns1.site.com to <dns_server_name>.site.com and idk what it is :(
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yummy - Now wifey brings in some Sticky Toffee Pudding and cream for pudding :-D
<TheOpenSourcerer> To be shortly followed by moar coffee I hope.
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: That's just wrong
<TheOpenSourcerer> What davmor2? Coffee
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: he's jelous
<TheOpenSourcerer> I see,
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: no the sticky toffee pudding you'll be asleep this afternoon :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> It was VERY nice.
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: you decide what it is
<danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: followed by port, brandy, a cigar and a nap
<TheOpenSourcerer> Only a small portion mind you.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Now that sounds like a grand way to spend an afternoon danfish but unfortunately that won't be happening today.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I used to love, and was rather an expert at, the LONG lunch with lashings of good claret.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Those days are largely gone it seems to me now though.
<danfish> ahhhh. we all lead far too busy lives.....I think a 3 day week, with 4 hour days would be great for the nations health (but not wealth)
<AlanBell> I think I would find something suitably unhealthy to do with the time
<Azelphur> http://gizmodo.com/5813956/lulzsec-plans-to-release-the-entire-2011-uk-census
<Azelphur> oh wait, horrible update at the bottom makes it less funny :(
<daubers> How can I setup a mailserver to just forward email to another email server?
<AlanBell> yeah, some kind of hoax that got all the media excited
<jpds> Azelphur: Dude, keep up.
<Azelphur> would have been funny :(
<Azelphur> I just woke up :o
<oimon> Azelphur: did you miss 24 hrs?
<danfish> AlanBell: I forgot add that in your spare time you'd all be busy contructing a huge statue of me in my honour....mwah, ha, ha!
<TheOpenSourcerer> danfish: Only your statue would need to be made from finest Stilton :-)
<Azelphur> oimon: *shrug*
<oimon> can't go to lunch yet :(
<oimon> terrible rain outside
 * TheOpenSourcerer is wondering why my coffee hasn't arrived yet. Might have to get up and go find it.
<jpds> oimon: I'm sure that's what the cavemen said.
<oimon> jpds: especially if the prey was hiding in caves
 * MooDoo is trying to organise an ubuntu hour in nottingham :D
<ali1234> the funny thing about lulzsec is how everyone dismisses them as "punk kids" yet if you actually read anything they write they are obviously not
<popey> yeah, clearly emo
<ali1234> and the alleged census pastebin actually *does* read like something written by a punk kid
<webpigeon> ali1234: doesn't most of the stuff on pastebin?
<popey> http://hacknow.org/
<popey> "A programming contest for
<popey> young people in Europe"
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nice popey. That is quite relevant to a discussion I was engaged in on twitter recently.
<dogmatic69> dns install fail :/
<oimon> https://a248.e.akamai.net/assets.github.com/img/aabb523e9605d363cc2374ffa1a85dc21cb40db2/687474703a2f2f692e696d6775722e636f6d2f507652776e2e6a7067 :P
<oimon> ^^ makes me smile
<dogmatic69> oimon: makes me lulz
<oimon> mainstream newspapers make me lol too
<dogmatic69> more like *facepalm* imo
<oimon> in fact, anytime i see *anything* represented in the media/news/TV/papers that i know something remotely about shows that journalists/media know nothing about anything worth knowing :)
<Azelphur> where's MattJ when you need him :(
<directhex> Azelphur, in hiding.
<Azelphur> indeed :(
<webpigeon> Azelphur: he got eaten by an XML tag...
<directhex> assuming we're after the same in-hiding mattj
<webpigeon> directhex: jabber \o/ = mattj
<directhex> yeah, i might've scared him off. sorry
<webpigeon> directhex: how?
<directhex> asking for support on prosody@conference.prosody.im!
<Azelphur> directhex: haha, that's what I'm doing now XD
<Azelphur> got no replies though :(
<Azelphur> Azelphur: Hi, I run my own XMPP server at home with prosody, trying to get my phone to connect to it externally, I forwarded the ports, but when I try to connect to it I just get this in the prosody error log, Jun 22 13:39:50 s2sinf06410	info	Incoming s2s connection || Jun 22 13:39:53 s2sinf06410 info	s2s disconnected: nil->home.azelphur.comÂ (stream closed)
<Azelphur> cross posting ftw, if you have any ideas :)
<webpigeon> Azelphur: are the serv records correct?
<directhex> yeah, SVR records for all
<directhex> um, SRV
<directhex> free SRV records with every happy meal!
<Azelphur> oh dear, SRV records... I'm on a dynamic IP now
<MartijnVdS> Would you like CNAMEs with that?
<Azelphur> directhex: no wait, I never had SRV records
<Azelphur> even when it was working
<oimon> i read that the fbi came in the night and took 3 racks of servers away from the hosting provider, "Mr. Ostroumow said. However, the agents took entire server racks, perhaps because they mistakenly thought that âone enclosure is = to one server,â he said in an e-mail."
<Azelphur> azelphur.com has SRV records, but home.azelphur.com never did
<oimon> more likely they didn't wanna have to make a 2nd visit, and don't need to apologise
<webpigeon> Azelphur: odd, usually that's what it uses to get the host for the service
<webpigeon> oimon: *yoink*
<Azelphur> the azelphur.com SRV records point to google apps, but home.azelphur.com is for my XMPP server I run at home with spectrum
<webpigeon> oimon: i hope they were'nt anything important... and attaully were the FBI, someone didn't just walk out with a bunch of servers
<Azelphur> and it's always been like that, and it worked before
<webpigeon> Azelphur: okay, just a thought
<oimon> webpigeon: http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/21/f-b-i-seizes-web-servers-knocking-sites-offline/
<webpigeon> oh dear.
<brobostigon> good afternoon everyone.
<webpigeon> Afternoon brobostigon
<brobostigon> afternoonings webpigeon :)
<MooDoo> brobostigon: hello matey
<webpigeon> How are you brobostigon?
<webpigeon> Hey MooDoo
<brobostigon> MooDoo: hello, :)
<popey> well. posting a referal link to spideroak was useful! http://t.co/uephzJJ has been clicked on by quite a few people who then chose to sign up and get 1GB free for themselves, and 1GB free for me!
<popey> *recommended* :D
<brobostigon> webpigeon: tired, but a good driving lesson, 9/10. and you?
<MooDoo> popey: what you got now then?
<MooDoo> webpigeon: hullo :)
<popey> 2G free, and another 24GB via referral!
<MooDoo> blimey
<MooDoo> wicked
<webpigeon> brobostigon: I'm alright thanks
<brobostigon> webpigeon: :)
 * daubers wants nice tea instead of pg tips :(
<oimon> lol: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-13873091
<andylockran> http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/21/f-b-i-seizes-web-servers-knocking-sites-offline/
<andylockran> :(
<andylockran> webpigeon: oimon  - that's well scary
<webpigeon> oimon: Who's bright idea was that?
<oimon> in wonder if the hollywood movies accurately reflect the FBI, or FBI now act that way as a result of the movies :S
<webpigeon> Cause-Effect
<andylockran> anyone used apache authentication? htpasswd .etc.?   I want to set it up so that you're only forced to enter a user/pass if you're accessing from outside a certain few subnets...
<diplo> I've done it in the past andylockran
<diplo> allow from and deny from ?
<andylockran> diplo  -ta :)
<andylockran> my brain is mush..
<diplo> Think it's under mod_access in http docs online
<diplo> From memory, not done it in a while
<dogmatic69> $ uptime
<dogmatic69>  14:21:31 up 33 days
<dogmatic69> \o/
<oimon> rebooting is for losers
<dogmatic69> *windows/mac
<oimon> that power icon is supposed to be red :)
<dogmatic69> thats not even a server, just my work pc
<oimon> my servers are on 549 days
<dogmatic69> oimon: what version you running?
<webpigeon> oimon: isn't it meant to be white? :P
<oimon> servers are running Scientific linux
<oimon> dekstop running ubuntu
<dogmatic69> should have been called scifinix
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Meenee-MNB737-Laptop-Bluetooth-webcam/dp/B004GGBUJY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1308749883&sr=8-1
<popey> looks sweet
<AlanBell> it does. "Password: meenee" in the description is a bit odd
<popey> hah
<popey> wonder if unity will run on it
<TheOpenSourcerer> Reading one the comments I wonder why they didn't use the OEM install?
<TheOpenSourcerer> XWayland est ici http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OTU4NA
<gord> unity really only needs a certain feature set, so anything new, fast or slow, generally works as long as the drivers aren't terrible. can't find any specifications for that laptop though
<andylockran> does <Directory /> apply to all subdirs of the apache config.. I thogut it did but Order deny, allow and deny from all.. and /var/www/site/ still displays...
<MartijnVdS> andylockran: <Directory /> applies to all directories on the _filesystem_ it, unless overridden :)
<andylockran> MartijnVdS: I thoguth do..
<andylockran> I thought so
<popey> http://clausoft.co.uk/
<MartijnVdS> popey: but what is it?
<MartijnVdS> popey: a map.. of what?
<popey> people who make the laptop linked above
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not a very compelling website with the first chuck of text restricting my freedoms.
<gord> isn't it people who own the laptop?
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-) http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20110621192510777
 * directhex moos
<popey> gord: the map is
<popey> the website isnt
<gord> ah - gotcha
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh shiny and fast: http://www.fastcompany.com/1761475/rocketplane-zehst-eads-paris-tokyo-jet-concorde
<gord> didn't groklaw stop? i'm sure i remember reading that and  thats why i removed it from my rss
<TheOpenSourcerer> gord no. PJ sort of retired.
<BigRedS> gord: sort of
<TheOpenSourcerer> But she handed over the reins.
<BigRedS> yeah, with an "I'll try to retire" sort of message
<gord> ah, worth re-adding back to my rss reader?
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: i'm thinking of adding a tab labelled "App Store" to my blog ;)
<MooDoo> i********** :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<MooDoo> #gobsmacked
<daubers> directhex: \o/ How's the .net 4 portage going?
<directhex> daubers, http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DebianMonoGroup/Mono210TransitionTODO and http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/mono.html
<directhex> daubers, basically, all apps need to be done, then all libs and plugins can be done in one go
<directhex> daubers, some things will need rebuilding more than once, for obtuse reasons. and some stuff needs more than a simple recompile
<daubers> directhex: Cool :) I failed in my attempt to build it so I could use the newer monodevelop stuffs :(
<directhex> daubers, monodevelop is one of the problematic ones. haven't had time to investigate. i'm largely handling the ubuntu side of the transition myself
<directhex> debian side is a team effort, but hasn't started in the archive yet
<daubers> directhex: I'm happy to wait at the moment.
<daubers> directhex: When i get impatient, I'll find some time and help sorting stuffs where I can
<ali1234> directhex: i spent the last 5 days writing excel macros using the office interop clr and now i'm about ready to stab someone in the face. i just thought you might like to know that
<directhex> ali1234, wouldn't know, i've never written an excel macro
<ali1234> someone needs to tell .net developers that making every single exception return "exception in HRESULT" and nothing else is not acceptable
<directhex> and i only used word macros in the 90s for hacking the school network
<ali1234> it must be karma i guess
<ali1234> oh well, it was either this or do it all by hand
<AlanBell> http://raceonline2012.org/partners?title=U
<oimon> lol@ the picture of my driveway on the ubuntu-uk.org home page
<gord> which one is yours, the train? or the mountains?
<oimon> the classic cars outside big mansion
<brobostigon> :)
<dogmatic69> lol
<oimon> i notice BBC Click the other day mentioned Windows, Mac and Linux, and popped up an icon on screen for each one...when they said "linux", they showed the ubuntu symbol !
<dogmatic69> took 25 reloads
<popey> :D
<popey> http://ubuntu-uk.org/dev/headerimages/banner1.jpg
<dogmatic69> oimon: they know nothing about computers :/
<oimon> bbc click to real tech is what John Cravens newsround was to the news
<popey> hahah
<davmor2> oimon: haha
 * popey tweets that
<gord> heh nice, newsround is still going
<oimon> notice you spared bbc click from a twitter mention :P
<popey> yes
<oimon> i wonder what age range john craven rings a bell with..prob 28-42
 * popey fits in that range
<popey> just
<oimon> along with the grange hill theme featuring "the sausage"
<popey> on a fork
<oimon> :D
<oimon> bada-BOW-WOW
<oimon> http://www.transdiffusion.org/emc/behindthescreens/images/transdiffusion_2_sausage.jpg
<gord> i've watched spaced so many times over the years, i now associate the grange hill theme more with that than with the original show :(
<popey> i watched spaced in bed last night
<popey> after getting really narked with the iplayer hanging
<popey> switched to 4oD player
<popey> btw oimon "my driveway"?
<gord> hrm, do you have to have a tv licence to watch 4oD? i mean morally/legally not technically obviously
<ali1234> only for live tv
<oimon> maybe my driveway in my sims house
<ali1234> not for iplayer catch up or 4od
<ali1234> according to iplayer website anyway
<gord> morally i don't watch iplayer stuff, i don't pay for that content so i don't think i should watch it
<ali1234> well some of the licence fee goes to 4 as well
<ali1234> so you shouldn't watch that either
<gord> yeah thats what i'm thinking, but they do have ad's
<ali1234> well you could just watch half the show
<ali1234> but seriously, bbc gets funding from other sources than the licence too
<oimon> mrs oimon just said "when we were in the pound shop he was saying "dada" over and over again at the top of his voice. think he knew it was ur fav shop"
<oimon> wifey talking about my one yr old child
<ali1234> have you seen that guy that reviews stuff he buys in the pound shop?
<oimon> i get bottles of purdeys in there 2 for Â£1
<oimon> sainsbury sell them Â£1.29 each at least
<gord> ashens?
<ali1234> yeah that's the one
<gord> ashens is top notch entertainment
<brobostigon> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/262273 why is it showing the video playback time,as being longer thanthe audio playbacktime, when video playback takes more power.
<ali1234> does it though?
<ali1234> DSP codecs are funny things
<ali1234> N900 will play h264 video for longer than it will play ogg vorbis audio files
<brobostigon> hmmm,
<brobostigon> oh, ok.
<ali1234> because one is DSP accelerated and the other isn't
<brobostigon> maybe, that explains it.
<ali1234> is that a tegra 2 one?
<ali1234> cos you can get the advent one for same price, and it's supposed to be really good
<brobostigon> ali1234: it doesnt say,
<ali1234> http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/advent-vega-internet-tablet-08258762-pdt.html?srcid=198&mctag=gg_goog_7904&gclid=CIaSlLnxyakCFUoc4QodmBLRNg
<Azelphur> MattJ: yay your here, jabber \o/
<Azelphur> MattJ: when I try to connect to prosody from my phone using Xabber, It won't connect, and I get this in my prosody.log: info	Incoming s2s connection || info	s2s disconnected: nil->home.azelphur.com (stream closed)
<Azelphur> I just bought my second expensive device that I know doesn't have Linux drivers :D
<Azelphur> fun fun
<popey> wossat?
<Azelphur> a logitech G13, http://www.bravophotographers.com/JonathonBravoBlog/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/logitechg13.jpg
<bigcalm> Wossat?
<Azelphur> extra bindable keys for gaming \o/
<bigcalm> Right handed only?
<Azelphur> yep
<popey> Yeah, dont want none of those stinking lefties round here!
<Azelphur> haha
<bigcalm> Not sure how I'd use it myself, but I'm not everybody :)
<bigcalm> I really must stop making holes (though the bedrock cavern streching off into the dark is kinda cool)
<popey> the hall of JGJones ?
<bigcalm> No, my own
<popey> ah
<bigcalm> WAH!
<bigcalm> MC wiki is down
 * bigcalm gets back to work
 * davmor2 hits popey with his left hook and walks off mumbling about him hating lefties
 * czajkowski trips davmor2 up
 * davmor2 tickles czajkowski till she is in tears and ribs hurt from laughter
 * MooDoo chuckles
 * czajkowski glares
<czajkowski> eh no
<czajkowski> there shall be none of that
<MooDoo> czajkowski: did you know i may be meeting davmor2 this weekend and all we're going to talk about is ways to annoy you lol
 * popey puts a cat in the room
 * MooDoo cackles
<MooDoo> :)
<czajkowski> popey: oi
<czajkowski> MooDoo: so you'll meet davmor2 but not me
<czajkowski> charming
<davmor2> czajkowski: Muhahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahah!
<davmor2> czajkowski: only cause we happen to be in the same place at the same time
<MooDoo> czajkowski: don't worry i love you more
<czajkowski> pfff
<MooDoo> czajkowski: we both happen to be in bakewell this weekend
<MooDoo> czajkowski: to make it up to you, i'll get you a bakewell pudding sent to your house ;)
<popey> tart
<MooDoo> lol
<davmor2> popey: how dare you call MooDoo a tart, creep yes! but not a tart...
<MooDoo> davmor2: shush i'm being nice to czajkowski for once
<MooDoo> ok back on later...speak soon
<davmor2> bye bye MooDoo
<AlanBell> davmor2: in the same place at the same time O_o
<AlanBell> that will disprove one of my pet theories
<AlanBell> more of a conjecture I suppose
<AlanBell> photographic proof will of course be required
<davmor2> AlanBell: Well different Campsites but both in bakewell
<davmor2> AlanBell: Yeah it's not just me on 2 computers with different nicks
<danfish> evening
<danfish> I'm really liking drupal 7
<danfish> much better IMO
<czajkowski> danfish: weirdo
<Azelphur> danfish: me too, it's nice :)
<davmor2> daubers: ping-a-ling how's you getting on with win 7
<danfish> czajkowski: be nice ;)
<danfish> you're eating MooDoo's Bakewell tart this weekend....but remember that laxatives don't taste of anything when mixed into cake :P
<davmor2> danfish: don't give me ideas
<davmor2> czajkowski: tell him, he's given me ideas
 * danfish has a severe case of foot in mouth disease
 * czajkowski peers at danfish 
<czajkowski> danfish: you won't be allowed hang around with davmor2 or MooDoo any more if you keep this up
<danfish> czajkowski: hah - I can give you better methods for revenge ;)
<bigcalm> Hayley is out for the evening, so that means Chinese Take-away!
<bigcalm> But, what to have?!
<danfish> bigcalm: easy, a number 4, 28, 62 and 3
<gord> alllll the chinese food
<czajkowski> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Tk2W7CyYNs
<czajkowski> pretty sweet video
<bigcalm> danfish: 4: Chicken and noodle soup, 28: Spare ribs - plum sauce, 62: Roast pork and pineapple fried rice, 3: Chicken and mushroom soup
<danfish> bigcalm: ah, one too many soups..try a 47
<bigcalm> 47: Roast pork and roast duck fried rice
<bigcalm> I do fancy as a starter 11: Yuk-shung (minced pork and vegetables with lettuce)
<danfish> that does sound good
 * danfish slams in the lamb
<bigcalm> I fear I shall be spending far too much at the Chinese Take-away, yet again
<jacobw> evening
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Tk2W7CyYNs&feature=player_detailpage#t=164s
<ali1234> ^ is that guy speaking english?
<Core_UK> evening jacobw
<gord> ali1234, nope, Chinese
<ali1234> its really hard to tell when every other words is "OEM group"
<ali1234> i guess they're the OEM group??
<gord> their the shanghai branch
<gord> they work with the OEM team
<daubers> lo
<jacobw> there's a very similar video by cisco kicking about
<jacobw> 'why be an engineer'
<jacobw> o/ daubers
<jacobw> actually, i've downgrade my comparison from very to similar to just similar
 * daubers needs to send a very important question to apple :(
<czajkowski> gord: no videos of you yet
<czajkowski> few of TREllis knocking about
<gord> why would there be videos of me? i'm not important
<gord> also, when they say "Multicultural" i don't think they really mean "northern"
<ali1234> but but but i thought canonical makes you feel special
<BigRedS> 'northern' is quite specificall not 'cultural'
<jacobw> notherners have a lot of cultures :P
<BigRedS> haha
<AlanBell> so does yoghurt
<BigRedS> yeah, that was the sort of cultures I suspected he was referring to
<gord> bloody southerners, the lot of you :P
<hamitron> gord +1
<hamitron> :)
<popey> directhex: does the banshee U1MS plugin support linking to music in the U1MS?
<popey> like what the rhythmbox one does
<AlanBell> bug 723960
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 723960 in banshee (Ubuntu) "[FFE] u1ms: links are not handled by banshee" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/723960
<Core_UK> ok when i do not move my mouse i get a faint (but annoyin) buzzing sound on my headphones...
<Core_UK> think my front port is goofed?
<popey> https://one.ubuntu.com/music/l/9717779/21
<popey> does that work for you then AlanBell
<AlanBell> hmm, launches banshee
<AlanBell> and if I click it again after clicking on the Ubutu one music store in banshee it works
<popey> good
<AlanBell> ok, so it works if banshee is already running
<AlanBell> if it has to launch banshee it doesn't actually go to the right place
<gord> Core_UK, fairly common with onboard sound
<gord> Core_UK, i have a usb adapter, works great because it means its a digital signal going over the motherboard rather than analogue
<AlanBell> Core_UK: does it do the same with the power unplugged (assuming it is a laptop)
<Core_UK> It is mains only AlanBell
<Core_UK> yeah it is on-board sound
<jacobw> sounds like EM interference then
<Core_UK> I dont understand how moving the mouse stops it though
<AlanBell> probably cursor moving rather than mouse
<AlanBell> does running something like glxgears stop it too?
<Core_UK> ill test
<AlanBell> just to get movement on the screen
<Core_UK> no
<gord> its really just because there is a change
<Core_UK> its not screen movement
<gord> so the computer is doing something different
<gord> which means you get different interference
<ali1234> yes. if you provide no input the the computer it will just run through the same input polling loops over and over in a deterministic way, which gives a fixed frequency interference
<Core_UK> on windows I could use my mic-in port for headphones
<ali1234> if you move the mouse then that's pseudo random input - the interference will move around all frequencies and become less noticable
<gord> all my different video games end up making different interference sounds on mine :)
<Core_UK> ok :)
<gord> but yeah, little usb thing will do wonders
<ali1234> btw the way you fix that problem is to turn the master mixer down and turn the wave mixer up, or vice versa
<Core_UK> how do I get to that from within 11.04 ali1234 ?
<ali1234> good question
<Core_UK> the sound utility doesnt seem that have that option
<BigRedS> alsamixer might do it?
<BigRedS> or alsamixergui
<AlanBell> pavucontrol
<ali1234> alsamixer will do it, yes
<ali1234> pavucontrol won't do it
<Core_UK> alsamixergui only offers master and capture
<Core_UK> can anyone recommend a usb sound card that works well with linux?
<Core_UK> or will any work?
<gord> Core_UK, http://www.amazon.co.uk/Griffin-GC16031-Quality-Recording-Playback/dp/B000BVV2IC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1308769480&sr=8-1 has worked wonders for me
<gord> "just works"
<dwatkins> I have a Griffic iMic, the older style one, it works fine.
<Core_UK> Can anyone recommend a good sci-fi series with a few seasons worth of content not stargate or startrek (finished them all :P)
<gord> farscape
<gord> half its episodes are just awful but the other half are really good
<Core_UK> by first half you mean the first 2 seasons?
<Core_UK> oh it has the main guy out of SG:A in it :)
<dwatkins> Core_UK: Fringe
<Core_UK> someone has recommended Fringe before
<Core_UK> the fact it is not in space puts me off though :|
<dwatkins> It's excellent, I can completely understand why they would do that ;)
<dwatkins> It's fine, you don't need fake sounds in space to make good sci-fi :)
<dwatkins> BSG is set in space but I found it as boring as Eastenders at times.
<dwatkins> [the new series, that is]
<Core_UK> yeah i found that
<Core_UK> BSG made number 1 the top 50 i am reading ><
<Core_UK> beating SG and ST o.O
<AlanBell> http://gong.ust.hk/nanogong/nanogong42.html does this work for anyone?
<AlanBell> java applet to run, does the top one record sound and play it back OK?
<dwatkins> ooh, food time
<Core_UK> AlanBell: yeah seems to work
<AlanBell> thanks, seems to be some temporary pulse oddness here, mine works now too
<suprengr> Topic for #ubuntu-uk-meeting is: Next meeting Wednesday June 22nd at 21:00 BST [cough] ;)
<popey> hehe
<brobostigon> lol
<popey> happens more often than you'd imagine!
<bigcalm> Thought it was quiet
<bigcalm> Can anyone join?
<suprengr> so quiet... /me hears Bjork ???
 * brobostigon is there.
<BigRedS> is that now?
<BigRedS> ah yeah
<MooDoo> hello all
<popey> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2011/06/22/s04e09-brave-new-world/
<popey> *cough*
 * MartijnVdS gives popey a glass of water
 * popey gargles
<MartijnVdS> .. a song?
 * brobostigon says BOO near popey 
 * brobostigon was evil, and is sorry,
 * bigcalm kicks iTunes into life
<AlanBell> an Alan heavy episode
 * MartijnVdS pokes Google Listen
 * brobostigon hasnt found much usefor google listen.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I'm in public transport 2 hours/day.. it's useful for UUPC, TIMC and several other podcasts :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah, yes, in that case :)
<popey> yay TIMC
<popey> I also enjoy The Doctor Who Podcast
<brobostigon> :)
<gord> this is just weird now, every day my xbmc install's on my revos have x crash
<gord> i haven't upgraded them or modified them, its so strange
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: thats allong time, and you need entertainment.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: exactly, and I can't read books all the time :)
<MartijnVdS> so I have audiobooks and podcasts
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: :)
<MartijnVdS> Harry Potter read by Stephen Fry++
 * brobostigon wants hhgttg as an audiobook.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: there's the radio broadcasts
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: a few,yes.
<MartijnVdS> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hitchhikers-Guide-Galaxy-Complete-Radio/dp/0563504196
 * brobostigon reads
<brobostigon> Â£49, umm.
<marsilainen> hi, how should I go about ripping my (movie) DVDs? I want to keep them in full quality format, and watch them with menus still active etc, just without putting the physical discs into the machine
<MartijnVdS> only 22.22kg :P
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: true,
<MartijnVdS> wait.. I'm converting the wrong kind of Pound :P
<diplo-> marsilainen, can just take a copy of the iso
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: quite, i wasnt concentrating.
<diplo-> Depends if you want to save space as well
<jacobw> TIMC is *awesome*
<diplo-> programs like dvd9to5
<MartijnVdS> marsilainen: you can try dvdbackup
<jacobw> dvd::rip
<marsilainen> diplo: I'm not interested in saving space - I'm happy to just take a full iso
<diplo-> If you are not worried about size just copy the iso
<marsilainen> what is the easy way to copy from physical disk to iso?
<MartijnVdS> marsilainen: dd?
<marsilainen> ok
<MartijnVdS> (does that work on encrypted DVDs? I don't know)
<marsilainen> and then how do I view the menus on that?
<popey> marsilainen: dvd::rip
<dwatkins> marsilainen: Handbrake
 * dwatkins grins at popey 
<popey> http://www.exit1.org/dvdrip/
<diplo-> Handbrake won't  leave menus dwatkins ?
<popey> ^^ marsilainen
<marsilainen> ok, thanks
<diplo-> marsilainen, from MartijnVdS comment, just this will copy dd if=/dev/dvd of=mydvd.iso
<jacobw> dvd::rip is good because you can rip the data [fairly] quickly and transcode it later
<MartijnVdS> diplo-: except if it's encrypted
<marsilainen> so, hang on, the dd option is no good for encrypted dvds?
<MartijnVdS> marsilainen: I think so, yes. You can always try of course
<marsilainen> dvd::rip will keep the full quality of the dvd with menus?
<brobostigon> the iso will therefore also be encrypted.
<diplo-> Fine if libdvdcss is installed afaik
<jacobw> it'll do exactly what its supposed to, create an exact copy of the disc
<MartijnVdS> diplo-: dd doesn't know about libdvdcss
<brobostigon> jacobw: exactly.
<marsilainen> even if it's encrypted then I can still watch it with vlc or whatever right? I mean, wont that do the unencrypting using libdvdcss or whatever?
<diplo-> No but the programs mounting/playing the iso's do
<brobostigon> i suppose you couldplay the *.iso with vlc, with libdvdcss installd ?
<jacobw> why wouldn't that be playable using a libdvdcss aware media player?
<diplo-> yeah, + alot of media players will auto mount iso's
<marsilainen> ok, so if I rip with dd to a .iso, and then use vlc I should be good?
<marsilainen> I shall give it a go...
<jacobw> yes
<brobostigon> marsilainen: with libdvdcss installed, yes,
<jacobw> unless there's something i don't know about css
<marsilainen> ok, thanks guys, I'll give it a go and report back :)
 * jacobw downloads the popeycast
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] Ubuntu-ie and Canonical Meet up in Dublin - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/06/22/ubuntu-ie-and-canonical-meet-up-in-dublin/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ubuntu UK Podcast] S04E09  Brave New World - http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2011/06/22/s04e09-brave-new-world/
<marsilainen> ok, using dd to rip a dvd to a .iso, and then vlc to watch it worked for 1 disc
<marsilainen> for another couple though it failed to copy with dd
<marsilainen> copy protection maybe?
<MartijnVdS> maybe
<marsilainen> I got: dd: reading `/dev/dvd': Input/output error
<MartijnVdS> marsilainen: try vlc on the disk first (to unlock it)
<MartijnVdS> marsilainen: _then_ dd
<marsilainen> hmm, ok
<marsilainen> so what, run vlc on the disc, then close vlc and dd?
<marsilainen> or leave vlc running the whole time?
<MartijnVdS> I don't know, try several permutations and see which one works :)
<marsilainen> I tried that and it got further - it got up to 1.2GB this time instead of failing soon after starting
<marsilainen> but it still failed in the end :/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Fun and a bit weird - Only in Sweden: http://t.co/Dns7Q82
<diplo-> dirty disc marsilainen ?
<marsilainen> diplo-: I don't think so, I keep my discs well, and I've tried with 2 discs from the same box set now with same result
<marsilainen> the distributor is Sony Entertainment which makes me wonder if copy protection issue...
<marsilainen> I can watch these discs fine if I use vlc direct on the disc to watch
<daubers> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-13874049 <- That is ace!
<daubers> Spongiforma squarepantsii ftw \o/
<diplo-> I've had a few issues with a few discs copying them marsilainen ended up using dvdshrink with wine worked in the end
<diplo-> But i rip most of mine to mkv's to keep chapters but loose the menus
<marsilainen> diplo-: ok, sure, thanks, will bare that in mind
<marsilainen> I'd still like to keep the extra features etc
<marsilainen> I literally want a copy of all my discs in a more convenient way to watch them
<marsilainen> dd seems like it will work for some at least
<diplo-> yeah I debated that, but I thought the amount I ever watch extras is that I get the dvd out if i ever wanted that, saves loads of space then
<marsilainen> yeah, everyone is different I guess :)
<marsilainen> for me, I don't have so many discs and disk space is cheap so I'd rather have everything on tap
<marsilainen> YMMV
<diplo-> :)
<diplo-> #600-700 dvd's
<diplo-> So yeah space is an issue for me :)
<marsilainen> yep, fair enough :)
<marsilainen> I guess I've only bought ~50 DVDs so far, so it's not a big deal for me :)
<marsilainen> I only buy things I really like
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
<directhex> popey: i think that was the plan. i no longer develop the plugin, canonical people do
#ubuntu-uk 2011-06-23
<shauno> wow.  finally got around to watching that terry pratchet right-to-die piece.  heavy stuff :/
<cola_kid> #ubuntu
<AlanBell> morning all
<popey> Morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> moo popey
<popey> right thats the wife and kids packed out the door
<TheOpenSourcerer> Early?
<nigelb> Morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> Mine are still screaming and shouting at each other ;-)
<popey> heh
<popey> nah, 8am is usual leaving time
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hi nigelb how are you?
<popey> Wifey has a new job at the school where the kids go, which makes life a lot easier :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> Handy.
<popey> means I pretty much never have to do the school run again
<nigelb> TheOpenSourcerer: Just getting to start a busy busy day :)
<nigelb> And ew, I'm going to be working on windows servers.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ewww.
<TheOpenSourcerer> nasty
<TheOpenSourcerer> Prepare for lots of reboots then ;-)
<popey> we have exactly one app that runs on windows at work
<popey> it's the biggest pile of crud ever
<nigelb> I already terminated the isntance once.
<nigelb> Recreating now.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I just heard about Ross Gardler and Steve Lee's new venture.
<popey> who?
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://osswatch.jiscinvolve.org/wp/2011/06/20/all-change-please-situation-normal/
<TheOpenSourcerer> OSS-Wiatch
<TheOpenSourcerer> Watch
<TheOpenSourcerer> Cheap tablets are coming... http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/22/archos-unveils-bare-bones-arnova-7-android-tablet-priced-at-99/
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning TheOpenSourcerer
 * brobostigon has coffee number 1.
<oly> hi, anyone able to tell me if you still need the ubuntu alternative cd for raid setups in the latest iteration.
<popey> you do
<popey> well
<popey> technically you don't
<popey> you can manually setup raid from the live cd
<popey> but ubiquity doesnt prompt for it
<oly> oh, did not know that using fstab ?
<popey> using mdadm
<popey> boot from live cd, open terminal, sudo apt-get install mdadm
<oly> fstab, what am i saing i mean fdisk
<popey> fdisk and mdadm, yes
<oly> aha, cool never thought about doing it that way useful to know :)
<popey> i have done it that way before
<popey> once you have the array up, then start ubiquity and do the install onto it
<oly> will save downloading another iso at least, cheers most helpful as usual :)
<popey> np :D
<diplo> Morning all
<popey> suppose I better take this hire car back
<bigcalm> popey: make a few doughnuts along the way
<popey> hah
<bigcalm> Isn't that what hire cars are for?
<popey> The car we bought for wifey is an ex-hire car
<popey> when she heard that she instantly went off it
<bigcalm> I would too
<popey> meh
<popey> you can't know what kind of driver the person who had the car before you is like
<popey> whilst thats x1000 when it's a hire car, it's the same thing
<bigcalm> No, but there's more chance of a hire car being treated badly
<AlanBell> then it will have had a variety of drivers, not one boy racer
<popey> yeah
<popey> swings and roundabouts
<popey> or roundabouts and sharp corners
<bigcalm> This is why I drive a 407 estate. Not likely to be driven by a boy racer ;)
<popey> heh
<popey> well, this is only a corsa
<popey> which wifey will have with the kids
<popey> and means I get my volvo back!
<bigcalm> I learnt to drive in one
<popey> my volvo needs some tidying up
<popey> scrapes and scratches
<bigcalm> Due to your wife's driving?
<popey> not exclusively
<popey> it has a big scratch/scuff on one side because she scraped it against a roof support in a car park
<popey> and the petrol flap came off
<popey> although that came off when I drove to Lugradio live about 3 years ago :D
<bigcalm> Heh
 * popey buys one on ebay whilst he thinks about it
<bigcalm> My car has 2 scrapes on it, both due to multistory carparks
<bigcalm> There is a carpark next to The Imperial (chinese buffet) in Woverhampton (lugradians will have visited it many times). NEVER go there in a long car with poor turning circle!
<ging> i was going to say how the hell do you scrap a roof support with the side, but i'm guessing that means a pillar not a beam
<popey> I know it well
<popey> "roof support"
<popey> yeah, pillar
<TheOpenSourcerer> My Volvo is rather scratched and dented - mostly by SWMBO
<TheOpenSourcerer> And we are missing one rather large gatepost. Also due to SWMBO
<popey> also, need to sort the gearbox issue I have with it
<TheOpenSourcerer> On a different note - my eldest son goes to Charterhouse School this afternoon.
<popey> Godalming?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yep.
<popey> I know it
<TheOpenSourcerer> Big place#
<popey> round the corner from some relatives
<TheOpenSourcerer> Since 1611.
<popey> They haven't been there as long as that
<AlanBell> cricket or something?
<bigcalm> Hehe
 * popey rummages on the volvo forums
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's year of Chemistry apparently. And 8 kids from my son's choll were selected to and spend an afternoon there.
<TheOpenSourcerer> s/choll/school
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: is yours a D5?
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.charterhouse.org.uk/
<TheOpenSourcerer> V70 2.4Turbo
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: don't let popey nick your petrol cap
<popey> heh
<popey> wont fit anyway
<popey> mine's diesel
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: auto or manual?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Blimey: http://www.charterhouse.org.uk/admissions/Fees.aspx
<TheOpenSourcerer> Auto popey
<popey> does yours ever slip when changing gear?
<TheOpenSourcerer> no
<TheOpenSourcerer> And you can't have my gearbox
<popey> going from 1st to 2nd mine revs up like it's in nutral
<popey> then clonks into gear
<bigcalm> Eugh
<popey> only from 1st to 2nd
<bigcalm> Gearboxes are costly even to look at, let alone fix
<popey> well, i have seen some posts that suggest it's easily fixed sometimes
<popey> like via gearbox fluid change
<popey> or going through the gears 30 times or so
<popey> (sat still)
 * popey starts a new thread on the volvoforums
 * popey hates forums
<popey> actually, will post this after I take hire car back
<MooDoo> morning al
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning MooDoo
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<bigcalm> I dislike them as well. But I had to join one last night becuase the freenode channel were very off putting. I forget that not all channels are as nice as this one
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: brobostigon morning
<popey> http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?p=933190
<popey> there we go
<oimon> i know little about cars, but sounds like sloppy gear changes have left 2nd gear a bit worn down, so it can't exchange properly?
 * popey shrugs
<popey> hehe, hire company just called asking when I was bringing the car back
<popey> suppose I'd best get dressed then :D
<oimon> i complained of a similar issue (except mine is a stiff 2nd gear) to my knowledgable friend and he told me 2nd gear is always the one with problems. people often don't exchange the clutch fully between 1st and 2nd
<popey> its an auto
<oimon> oh lol
<popey> :D
<popey> yes, "lol" â¹
<nigelb> popey: Is that why you have a rental for now?
<nigelb> s/rental/hire
<popey> no
<popey> rental is because wifeys car got trashed
<popey> by a neighbour
 * oimon is having bopiler repaired today...Â£400 :(
<popey> ouchh
<nigelb> popey: what!?!
<popey> pulled out in front of me
<popey> we collided
<popey> wrote my car off
<nigelb> ouch :(
<popey> hey ho, it happens :D
<MooDoo> popey: all to often :(
<oimon> half-way into the road seems to be the new give way line in london
<oimon> hey ho i'll just pull out into the road and look when i get into the middle
<danfish> morning
<dwatkins> hiya
<dwatkins> glad you're ok, popey
 * bigcalm writes an email to a client called Lala and can't help but giggle
<danfish> to quote Prof Brian Cox - "things can only get better"
<oimon> once my sister had a client called Mrs Tomato
<popey> Dell have someone called Demis Dememis
<popey> (say it aloud)
<popey> sounds like Denace the menace to me
<bigcalm> :)
<oimon> i wonder if he's friends with the dell SAN guy i met called  Del Lunn
<popey> ttfn
<oimon> hope popey turns off the webcam while he gets dressed
<brobostigon> lol
<bigcalm> popey gets dressed in the garden?
<oimon> bigcalm: i didn't want to check lol
<dogmatic69> anyone used a synology box? trying to install stuff but dont know the command :/
<dwatkins> http://forum.synology.com/wiki/index.php/Basic_commands_to_get_around_the_Synology_Box_using_the_CLI might help, dogmatic69 - although I imagine you've seen this already
<dogmatic69> ah thanks, no ive not
<dogmatic69> just been looking at the terminal after <tab><tab> :)
<dogmatic69> hmm, they say ipkg ... if its installed already :/
<dogmatic69> can i install apt-get ?
<dogmatic69> or should i use something else maybe
<oimon> http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/23/the-acorn-a7000-portable-mod-is-what-your-macbook-looks-like-in/
<dogmatic69> man, this is one lean version of linux :/
<dogmatic69> no installer, download yum, no make, download make, no c compiler ...
<oimon> didn't daubers do a 30 days with windows...nothing updated since day 2...getting worried :D
<MooDoo> oimon: i'm sure he's doing fine :)
<DJones> oimon: Probably still got a BSOD
<MartijnVdS> he was assimilated
<oimon> if he came from KDE4 he might be OK
<oimon> just don't click on anything
<gord> i'm going to do 30 days with a ZX Spectrum one day
<MooDoo> oimon: windows isn't that bad :)
<MooDoo> lol
<DJones> zx spectrum, 30 days of Manic Miner :)
<oimon> MooDoo: i find it a productivity nightmare
 * popey returns
<oimon> and that's without my friends calling me about the latest viruses
<MooDoo> oimon: each to their own i gues
<danfish> nah - daubers is now on the #windows-fanbois channel ;)
<oimon> ihihihih
<MooDoo> oimon: i'm sorry but anyone that gets a virus is either not runing the latest definition or is visiting some site and not watching what they are clicking on......
<MooDoo> ner ner ner ner ner
<oimon> mcafee doesn't detect the viruses that most people seem to get
<MooDoo> danfish: fanbois?  never seen it called that before :)
<oimon> had to assist a friend remotely to fix "Win 7 Antispyware 2012Â " which installed itself on a pc and didn't allow any use until it gets registered with a CC
<DJones> oimon: I've seen that as well, its a pig to get rid of
<MooDoo> oimon: DJones yeah had to do it last week, registry hack in the end to fix it
<MooDoo> but at the end of the day it was my friends fault for clicking links he shouldn't of.....
<MooDoo> i did try to put ubuntu on his machine though lol he spotted me putting the cd in ;)
<dogmatic69> ok, if i need gcc to install make, and gcc needs a compiler to install... how do i install gcc?
<oimon> dogmatic69: ah, reminds me of CS101
<dogmatic69> pita
 * oimon glances over at the compilers book on the shelf
 * dogmatic69 has given up
<MooDoo> dogmatic69: don't give up
<TheOpenSourcerer> dogmatic69: Read the linuxfromscatch.org book to find out how to make a clean compiler from a compiler.
<dogmatic69> :S
<MooDoo> dogmatic69: can't you just install build-essential?
<dogmatic69> MooDoo: i was trying to get yum on
<dogmatic69> how would i install that?
<dogmatic69> only useful command i have is wget
<MooDoo> install yum? or build-essential
<dogmatic69> well yum requires make, which requires gcc, which requires gcc ..
<dogmatic69> see the problem :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> sudo apt-get install build-essential
<dogmatic69> lol
<MooDoo> so install build-essential and then install yum after
<dogmatic69> its not ubuntu
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh
<TheOpenSourcerer> Then read LFS.
<MooDoo> dogmatic69: what os then?
<dogmatic69> its a synology box
<diplo> redhat/centos doesn't have a build-essential package
<diplo> So would have to download all seperately
<MooDoo> ah
<dogmatic69> its linux, some custom stripped down arm version i think
<TheOpenSourcerer> You need what is called a toolchain.
<TheOpenSourcerer> There are some recursions in that there toolchain
<MartijnVdS> There's gcc in them there toolchains!
 * BigRedS swears at sorbs
<bigcalm> Found that I can add my own DNS settings to the android tablet if I tell it to use a static IP address. Though I don't really want to run a DNS server just for the tablet :(
<nigelb> dogmatic69: there's always a compiler
<nigelb> not necesssarily gcc.
<nigelb> but getting it to work might involve hair pulling
<oimon> you can probably stick debian on those synology boxes
<nigelb> We recently worked with SCO Unixware.
<nigelb> It was like a blast in the past.
<BigRedS> We had to build a Woody box the other day :)
<popey> Wooodeeeeeeee!
<czajkowski> Aloha
<MooDoo> czajkowski: hello
<nigelb> After SCO suing everyone (wasn't it them?) you'd thin they have good enough packages/software.
<nigelb> They have a really old UI, 1993 versions of perl, and such madness.
<BigRedS> nah, they've been famed as a lawyer rather than a software outfit for about a decade
<AlanBell> they just gave up and ran it into the ground, whilst trying to make as much legal mischief as they could on the way down
<AlanBell> and still not quite entirely dead
<JamesTait> Morning all. :)
<JamesTait> Can anyone suggest a good VPS provider? I want to get my e-mail back online if nothing else. Bytemark seem to fit the bill, but I'm interested in other recommendations too.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Bytemark or Bitfolk.
<MooDoo> memset
<TheOpenSourcerer> For a small VPS either are fine. Bitfolk probably a bit cheaper.
<TheOpenSourcerer> We also use Hetzner
<TheOpenSourcerer> for big boxes.
<davmor2> morning all
<MooDoo> davmor2: morning
<davmor2> MooDoo: Sunday dude, I hope you know a pub that does decent food in bakewell :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: i'll ask the father in law.....he's been around those parts for years....but yes there are a few :)
<JGJones> Hetzner - they're cheap but don't rely on them for support
<AlanBell> it is fully automatic, never spoken to anyone
<davmor2> MooDoo: nice
<MooDoo> davmor2: hmph why aren't you in my phone contacts list....how very dare you
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski to remind her it's morning :)
 * czajkowski glares at davmor2 
<MooDoo> davmor2: czajkowski double poke.....
<davmor2> MooDoo: I haven't put my number on FB or twitter
<jpds> JamesTait: Linode's an option.
<MooDoo> davmor2: that explains it then :D
<DJones> About time, one down, countless thousands still to go http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13887152
<czajkowski> MooDoo: oi!
<MooDoo> czajkowski: i was being gentle......
<MooDoo> davmor2: think i'll tease czajkowski all day about eating bakewell pudding all weekend :p
<davmor2> MooDoo: I am now :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: No play fair, tease her about plotting her demise when we get together :D
<BigRedS> I've just come across the 'rename' tool. It's awesome
<JamesTait> TheOpenSourcerer: Ah, bitfolk was the other I was trying to remember.
<davmor2> for some unknown reason I've got the whole gnome rawness experience going on, on my desktop this morning
<JamesTait> jpds: I looked at linode, but they seem to be more-or-less identical to Bytemark.
<sohaib> ?
<AlanBell> !
<JamesTait> Ah well, bitfolk are out of capacity, so Bytemark it is.
<AlanBell> wow
<JamesTait> I always forget - is Bitfolk the one run by "the Alans" or something similar, who were at LRL and OggCamp?
<popey> JamesTait: Bitfolk is run by Andy Smith
<AlanBell> not us
<AlanBell> Andy does turn up to lots of stuff
<sohaib> Hey guys, can anyone help me please?
<AlanBell> sohaib: sure, ask a question
<JamesTait> I get them and Bytemark mixed up - but Bitfolk does sound familiar, I'm sure they were at one of the events I went to.
<sohaib> thanks AlanBell
<dutchie> JamesTait: they sponsored both oggcamps
<sohaib> AllanBell: I have just installed latest ubuntu now when i right click to an ntfs partition and select permission tab, it says permissions could not be determined for that partition.
<dutchie> and andy was at both
<JamesTait> dutchie: That'll be it then.
<MooDoo> JamesTait: i'm using memset, they do appear cheaper....at first glance
<AlanBell> sohaib: yeah, ntfs permissions are going to be for users that Ubuntu doesn't know about
<JamesTait> MooDoo: Oh, I thought that was a tool or a system call - I didn't realise it was in response to my question. :)
<MooDoo> JamesTait: lol sorry i should of been more clear :) memset.com
<sohaib> AllnBell: what should i do then? because i want to create a home network of uuntu and MS and i am afraid if anyone will be able o access those shared ntfs partitions
<AlanBell> !tab| sohaib
<lubotu3> sohaib: You can use your <tab> key for autocompletion of nicknames in IRC, as well as for completion of filenames and programs on the command line.
<JamesTait> Thanks folks - I knew I could rely on you. :)
<AlanBell> sohaib: so you have a drive in an ubuntu machine with an NTFS partition on it?
<AlanBell> sohaib: or an ubuntu machine accessing a windows share over the network?
<sohaib> AllanBell: yes, i have two ntfs partitions which i want to share over a network. no, ubuntu machine is not accessing a windows share over the network.
<TheOpenSourcerer> sohaib: To control individual user access I would probably use Samba (Windows Networking) instead of NTFS mounted shares
<TheOpenSourcerer> Then you do not need NTFS and can use EXT4 partitions on your server.
<AlanBell> yeah, not sure why you want NTFS partitions
<sohaib> TheOpenSourcerer: i am going to use Samba for home network setup but the reason is i have lots of data to be shared on ntfs partitions so i want them to share over the network.
<BigRedS> if you're sharing over the network, it doesn't matter what the filesystem is
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'm unsure of the capabilities of NTFS for user-based block allocation. EXT4 is a superior file system http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/230527/ubuntu_linux_day_16_ext4_vs_ntfs.html
<AlanBell> well it does matter a bit, best to use a filesystem that can store permissions in the right way for the operating system
<sohaib> BigRedS, i understand this i have tried this in previous version of ubuntu i was able to create network but when i used to access those partitions it always said me you have no permissions to acess this directory
<popey> I have some prawns, in shells, uncooked. Pondering what to do with them for lunch
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Give them back to the sea :-)
<popey> hah
<AlanBell> cook, add mayo, make sandwich, bring round to me
<popey> not sure the sea will want them
<popey> hah
<hamitron> my cat likes prawns
<popey> my cat loves ham
<popey> and cheese
<BigRedS> sohaib: that's down to the filesystem permissions, not what filesystem you're using
<MooDoo> ham and cheese toastie, yum
<sohaib> AlanBell, so what should i do now to make them accessible over the network?
<BigRedS> you'll have fewer permissions issues using unixy filesystems in linux than using windowsy ones
<hamitron> with baked beans \o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> A spicy tomato/coconut type curry sauce would be good - Perhaps with tamaring to sour it up a bit.
<TheOpenSourcerer> s/tamaring/tamarind
<AlanBell> !samba
<lubotu3> Samba is the way to cooperate with Windows environments. Links with more info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MountWindowsSharesPermanently and https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/serverguide/C/windows-networking.html - Samba can be administered via the web with SWAT.
<sohaib> BigRedS, is it possible to make a specific folder accessible over the network which is located on an ntfs Partition?
<TheOpenSourcerer> sohaib: Samba is pretty much the de-facto server based solution for windows shares - it works. You just have to configure it right.
<BigRedS> yeah, but you'll need to work around the fact that NTFS permissions are not supported by Linux
<TheOpenSourcerer> Why do you need to use an NTFS partition?
<BigRedS> It will be easier to set up if you don't use an NTFS permission
<AlanBell> sohaib: maybe ask in #samba if you really want to share NTFS parititons from linux http://www.samba.org/samba/irc.html
<sohaib> TheOpenSourcerer, is there any way to resize my ubuntu partitions so i can move that data from ntfs to ubuntu?
<TheOpenSourcerer> gparted
<TheOpenSourcerer> !gparted
<lubotu3> gparted is a !GTK/!Gnome !GUI partitioning program. Type Â« sudo apt-get install gparted Â» in a console to install it - A GParted "live" CD is available at http://gparted.sourceforge.net/livecd.php
<hamitron> I hate it when you have data stuck somewhere, and you have nowhere to move it :/
<TheOpenSourcerer> MOAR disk space.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Or delete old stuff.
<hamitron> TheOpenSourcerer: yeh, I get more and fill it
<hamitron> ;)
<sohaib> TheOpenSourcerer, is there any step by step instructions to configure samba correctly
<TheOpenSourcerer> There are loads - all over the internet.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Correctly is entirely your choice.
<sohaib> :)
<hamitron> the smb.conf file is heavily commented
<hamitron> so the lazy can just modify that for basic setups
<hamitron> perfect for me ;)
<popey> \o/ lazy
<sohaib> TheOpenSourcerer, BigRedS, AlanBell: thank you so much guys, i try to cope with this and if i culdn't go nowhere, i'll get back to you. Cheers
<AlanBell> computing is all about applied lazyness
<hamitron> time for fish and chips
<hamitron> bbl o/
<JGJones> Nokia's N9 look fantastic...if it came out 2 years ago. Pity
<directhex> JGJones, i don't know what to think about it.
<JGJones> I liked the N900...but nothing since then was killing meego. shame, it had potenital, but today up against Android and iOS, it's a huge mountain
<JGJones> anyway it doesn't have a future, Nokia laid off 7000 staff from two depts - symbian and meego.
<popey> yeah, friend of mine works there, she's got one year left
<popey> they just promoted her too (after the closure announcement) which is odd
 * selinuxium is waiting for his Galaxy S II to arrive.... 
<JGJones> shame...I actually want a N9, it look nice, but I won't get it.
 * diplo wants a smartphone but doesn't want a contract
<diplo> If anyone wants to sell one cheaply :)
<popey> I'm on the blag for hardware to review on the podcast. have tapped up a couple of laptop manufacturers, other suggestions?
<popey> ubuntu-centric would be handy :D
<daubers> lo
<AlanBell> popey: fancy keyboards http://keyboardco.com/
<popey> ooo
 * daubers loves leftovers for lunch
 * popey wonders if they do model-m like ones
 * AlanBell wonders what a model-m is
<BigRedS> awesome
<popey> WHAT!>
 * popey deducts some geek points from AlanBell 
<popey> only the greatest keyboard known to man
<popey> (and woman)
<daubers> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_M_keyboard
<popey> want one of them, USB, with a "windows" key
<BigRedS> you can usb it with a usb to ps/2 adaptor and some ingenuity
<AlanBell> talking to keyboardco.com about doing a CoF on the super key
<AlanBell> you want PS/2 actually
<AlanBell> it does N-key rollover better
<bigcalm> I have a spare Unicomp keyboard if anybody wants it
<bigcalm> US layout sadly
<AlanBell> (can I have my geek points back now please)
 * MooDoo is vexed, ok admit it who mentioned fish and chips
 * bigcalm <3 his Unicomp keyboard. Hayley does not
<bigcalm> MooDoo: it was danfish
<bigcalm> That, or you just looked at his nick
<popey> why would ps/2 do n-key better than USB?
<MooDoo> bigcalm: damn him, now i want chich and fips
 * TheOpenSourcerer has left-over macaroni cheese for lunch. Avec something hot like chilli sauce...
<bigcalm> "Unicomp has had difficulty making them profitable because they rarely break, and most retailers will not stock such an expensive keyboard."
<bigcalm> Heh
<AlanBell> the Filco keyboards are *very* nice
<bigcalm> Even less proffit from me as they sent me a US layout when I ordered a UK one
<AlanBell> http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_details.asp?PRODUCT=688 those are nice too, a roller mouse is interesting and but it really works rather well
<popey> i worked with someone who had one of those
<popey> horrid things
<popey> she had bad rsi which is why she used it
<AlanBell> we appear to be having a weather failure here :(
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] Planet Ubuntu Ireland  Lets get chatting - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/06/23/planet-ubuntu-ireland-lets-get-chatting/
<MooDoo> AlanBell: no rain yet but it's looking bleak here to....although sunday is supposed to be warm
 * BigRedS is being attacked with ubuntu stickers again
<AlanBell> popey: the USB protocol only allows for 6 simultaneous keypresses apparently
<AlanBell> PS/2 you can address every key on the keyboard
<BigRedS> oooh
<BigRedS> that helps me justify my preference for ps2
<BigRedS> sort-of
<MartijnVdS> Except PS/2 can't address more than a given total number of keys
<AlanBell> and doesn't supply power
<AlanBell> but high end keyboards all have PS2 connections
<TheOpenSourcerer> But many PCs now do not have PS2 connectors
<AlanBell> this is true
<JGJones> PS2 to USB convertors
<AlanBell> yes, but that means you are back to 6 key rollover
<JGJones> Aye...I want one though...
<JGJones> I had a few...
<JGJones> then dug out my old keyboard as fed up with laptop keyboard, it's a PS2
<JGJones> and now I can't find any of my convertors. bah
<oimon> "We particularly welcome applications from black and minority ethnic candidates as they are under-represented within the university at this level" << why would a job advert include this line?
<oimon> are they suggesting that the best person for the job might not get picked due to race?
<MooDoo> oimon: sounds standard to me to be honest
<JGJones> they call it "positive discrimination"
<AlanBell> oimon: it is OK to "welcome applications"
<oimon> AlanBell: then the line is irrelevant surely? other institutions say "we are equal ooprtunities employer so welcome everybody"
<AlanBell> yeah, well they are being a bit more encouraging
<oimon> sucks IMO
<AlanBell> meh IMO :)
<AlanBell> anyhow, are you going for a job in a uni?
<oimon> i work in a uni now
<oimon> looking around
 * AlanBell thinks we need to do some installfests in university computing societies
<oimon> +1
<AlanBell> where are you at now?
<oimon> check my IP :)
<AlanBell> and does anyone else here (such as dutchie) have contacts?
<oimon> a lot of science staff use linux
<daubers> AlanBell: I still know people at Swansea
<daubers> (as does Alan Cox I suspect)
<oimon> maths/physics/comp sci are EE are all v linux friendly in general
<AlanBell> oimon: I am totally up for coming to qmul with a box of free CDs
<oimon> AlanBell: have you done any at a uni? interested to know how it went
<AlanBell> not yet
<dutchie> AlanBell: oxford is too big and varied to do anything uni-wide i think
<dutchie> would be best to target individual depts/colleges imo
<dutchie> or OUCS, i suppose
<AlanBell> dutchie: yeah, just want a room for an hour in an evening
<dutchie> would be lovely if they could ditch exchange
<AlanBell> OUCS would be ideal
<oimon> would the uni arrange the publicity too?
 * popey awards AlanBell his geek points back
<AlanBell> just want to get CDs out to students
<dutchie> apple seem to be allowed to spam us all with their marketing rubbish
<dutchie> so there must be an "in" for advertisements of that sort
 * popey consumes prawn wraps
<oimon> summer is good at uni's because seminars and stuff close down or are less frequent
<oimon> therefore rooms are free
<oimon> on the downside, a lot of students go home
<davmor2> MooDoo: Sometimes I worry about you I send you a text and a ping on irc both with the same message and the penny doesn't drop, there's no hope for you ;)
<dutchie> undergraduates here at least are supposed to stay to the end of 8th week
<MooDoo> davmor2: sorry took my brain our to poke czajkowski never put it back in to speak to you
<oimon> another thing is supplying CDs to computer societies for freshers week
<andylockran> hey guys - I've added the objectClass: hostObject to a few users and can sucessfully limit access per-user to different hosts using the host: attribute.  I'd like to be able to do this by group instead - any ideas?
<oimon> interesting that compsocs at uni's seem to have died a bit
<andylockran> quiet here today
<JGJones> Nah, it wasn't quiet just a few minutes ago...giant flamewar, Godwin's law broken within second and all that.
<JGJones> something to do with lager vs ale.
<oimon> ponytails vs neckbeards
<JGJones> The comeback of mullets
<MooDoo> lager spit....pah!   and off we go :)
<andylockran> I quite like perry
<andylockran> as an aside, anyone good with OpenLDAP?
<diplo> Nope andy, but if you get good with it pass on the knowledge, really really want to set a ldap server up but keep failing even with the tutorials :/
<oimon> i find ldap a bit clunky
<oimon> diplo: for home?
<andylockran> diplo: more than happy to answer any questions..
<oimon> andylockran: i only recently discovered that babycham is in fact perry
<diplo> Nope, want to integrate into work oimon
<diplo> Phone system and the Assett database that I want to write for all our customers hardware etfc
<diplo> So we have one place to update customer info
<diplo> andylockran, what do you use your ldap server on ? Ubuntu/RH ?
 * daubers really wants to setup an asterisk system in the office
<diplo> I also want to try that daubers
<diplo> 2 projects I have on my list to test
<daubers> diplo: Main thing stoppign me is apparently ISDN cards are some kind of voodoo magic
<MartijnVdS> daubers: always have been
<andylockran> diplo: I run it on debian, gentoo and CentOS
<andylockran> diplo: got it n-way replicated across multiple sites too :)
<daubers> The fact that ISDN cards seem to cost $extortionate always puts me off too
<bigcalm> ISDN is still used?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: ISDN30 is in heavy use by companies
<bigcalm> Fair enough
<dwatkins> Can anyone please tell me if the FHS defines that subdirectories should be created within /usr/local - I can't see any mention in the docs...?
<BigRedS> my redhat mug just broke :( Wonder if I've a support contract on it
<daubers> bigcalm: ISDN30 is used for generic telephone services instead of POTS in most companies
<daubers> we have 8 ISDN lines, and a POTS line for the ADSL :)
<Laney> dwatkins: http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#USRLOCALLOCALHIERARCHY ?
<diplo> Sorry guys phone/work
<diplo> andylockran, I may call on you at some point in the near future then
<diplo> My company mainly runs CentOS and I run Ubuntu servers
<diplo> Will get a dev box up, find a decent tutorial and when I get stuck I will shout  :)
<oimon> our zimbra server manages our ldap
<diplo> How do you find Zimbra ? Tried the client.. not had chance to test the server yet.
<oimon> fantastic
<diplo> Does it install it as a dependancy ?
<diplo> I'm guessing community edition ?
<oimon> i use the paid version
<oimon> for active sync and support
<oimon> but the free edition is v similar
<oimon> will be sad when the IT bullies impose exchange upon us
<diplo> heh, it happened where i worked
<diplo> I'm back on a linux mta now though at new job
<diplo> Wondering about implementing Zimbra here
<diplo> Only 20 ish of us
<diplo> Instead of 700+
<oimon> we have about 250 users on ours
<oimon> but is very scalable
<dwatkins> thanks Laney
<Laney> np
<dwatkins> I'm trying to find something that specifically says to create a subdirectory, but all the stuff I find only implies it, obvious as it is to me.
<andylockran> Zimbra! is pretty cool - I've used that otoo
<andylockran> Zimbra! + Samba FTW..
<andylockran> :p
<andylockran> all your office needs on one box
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Paul Mellors] Why work for Canonical? - http://paulmellors.blogspot.com/2011/06/why-work-for-canonical.html
<brobostigon> afternoonings everyone,
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: afternoonisms :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: afternoonings :)
<AlanBell> an
<AlanBell> oops
 * AlanBell is on a phone keyboard
 * brobostigon is impressed, google maps can do route planning on busses.
 * popey wonders how often brobostigon drives a bus
<bigcalm> Hehe
<popey> hows the tablet bigcalm ? :D
 * brobostigon never drives a bug.
<brobostigon> bus*
<bigcalm> popey: the hash tag is appropriate
<popey> indeed
<bigcalm> Found that holding down the tiny reset button did the trick
<davmor2> popey: I've driven a few buses
 * popey offers bigcalm a link to http://store.apple.com/uk/browse/home/shop_ipad/family/ipad
<bigcalm> I guess it's a physical connection of the battery
 * brobostigon needs to plan, to go to oxford, via bus and train, to see his orthopedic doctor, concrning his osteoporosis.
 * bigcalm offers popey a choise of fingers from his right hand. Sadly the thumb, index, ring and little fingers are in use
<bigcalm> :P
<davmor2> popey: not too different to Lorries only allowed to go faster on the motorway which I never really got
<popey> :D
<bigcalm> choice
<popey> davmor2: momentum?
<popey> not sure I'd want to be behind a lorry with a full load at 70MPH
<popey> s/behind/infront of/
<davmor2> popey: Nope they aren't limited as low as Lorries
<popey> well, either
<bigcalm> If you're towing, you aren't meant to be doing 70mph either
<popey> thats the point I was making
<davmor2> popey: a full bus and a lorry aren't hugely different in weight Lorry is 32 ton bug 23-25 ton  the bus however is full of people surely it should be going slower :D
<davmor2> s/bug/bus
<popey> thats ~10T difference
<popey> hey ho, off to the dump
<BigRedS> or 30ish%
<davmor2> popey: either of them hit you at 70 you car is a small box :D
<BigRedS> you're not likely to do much beter at 54mph either...
<hamitron> if you are behind it, it is unlikely ;)
<Myrtti> meh, tomorrow is midsummers eve, I've just spend 120â¬ on food for it, and here I am, unable to unwind...
<Myrtti> can someone please turn my brain off for 30 minutes atleast
 * hamitron turns the dial to 0
<hamitron> no movement? :-o
<JGJones> Too much methinks
<JGJones> try 0.5 next time.
<ikonia> popey: ping
<popey> ikonia: pong
<gord> Myrtti, i find http://rain.nxe7.com/ nice and relaxing
<popey> apparently we're the 12th largest channel on freenode :D
<MooDoo> yaya
<DJones> Who are the top 10?
<DJones> 1) Ubuntu, 2) ?
<popey> 15:51:34 < szal> useless trivia -> the 5 largest *buntu channels on Freenode by user count: (1) #ubuntu; (2) #ubuntu-server; (3) #ubuntu-devel; (4) #ubuntu-offtopic; (5) #kubuntu
<popey> 15:52:54 < szal> then on (6) and (7) follow the 2 largest non-English *buntu channels, #ubuntu-fr and #ubuntu-de
<JGJones> largest ubuntu related channels or out of all channels?
<popey> oh, *ubuntu ones :D
<JGJones> #ubuntu is pretty big though...I don't really read it anymore, too fast
<gord> i stay in #ubuntu mainly because its lurkers like me who will eventually push it over the 2k mark!
<bigcalm> 1,562 users in there
<bigcalm> Sheesh
<Laney> it used to be a good stress test of IRC clients
<popey> heh
<popey> its a good stress test of piespy
<Laney> joining it used to crash whatever it was I used a few years ago
<gord> it was pretty good at stressing my ssd until i turned off logging :)
 * Laney needs to find a man with van for next week
<AlanBell> looks like another ex-chicken
<bigcalm> Tea?
<danfish> AlanBell: oops - what's the problem with it?
<AlanBell> the passage of time mostly
<AlanBell> none of us are getting younger
<danfish> true - we all have an eggspiry date ;)
<danfish> ....tumbleweed.........
<MooDoo> tumbleweed.popey.com
<MooDoo> in brand new html5 :)
<daubers> danfish: That's just rotten. You'll make them all over eggcited.
<MooDoo> i'm getting eggsaperated with all these egg yolks
<bigcalm> Nothing html5 about that
<MooDoo> oh thought it was html5 lol
<bigcalm> As it is, it has syntax errors
<bigcalm> View the source
<MooDoo> bigcalm: tell popey ;)
<bigcalm> Just an animated GIF that has been flipped horizontally
<AlanBell> http://oo00.eu/
<danfish> MooDoo: you always over egg things
<daubers> danfish: Stop egg-ing them on!
<MooDoo> danfish: i'm just an eggcitable guy
<MooDoo> danfish: eggcuse me
<danfish> why, what have you done eggxactly?
<davmor2> you must be yolking
<MooDoo> i can't cope my brain is scrambles
<davmor2> eggstreemly fried brain
<MooDoo> roll on weekend when i'm at BAKE well....hmmmm beer
<danfish> hhmmmmmmmm......BRAINS
<AlanBell> I was expecting more of a parrot sketch themed conversation
<MooDoo> AlanBell: nah that's a dead end
<AlanBell> maybe I should nail it to the perch
<davmor2> AlanBell: Nah that would be a tasteless gag and it isn't blue and in a cage
<MooDoo> don't listen to AlanBell he's not the messiah he's a very naughty boy
<bigcalm> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigcuthy/5863158335/
<MooDoo> bigcalm: fab :)
<bigcalm> MooDoo: silly ;)
<MooDoo> bigcalm: yeah silly, but fun from the doldrums of work
<bigcalm> Yep!
<danfish> yikes - been looking into (open source) video conferencing solutions (like big blue button) for our local dr's to use - the NHS-Internet net connection is only 33Mbps in either direction, meaning we'd gobble up most of that with one meeting :(
<oimon> danfish: i've used tandberg in the past which supports standards e.g. ekiga can connect to it
<oimon> works well over 256k or 2mb for HD
<AlanBell> danfish: how many endpoints? 33MB sounds like quite a lot
<danfish> AlanBell: oimon : I thought that as well, but going through the FAQ on big blue button with say 40users gives...
<AlanBell> 40 users is a lot
<danfish> oops - faq now gone down http://code.google.com/p/bigbluebutton/wiki/FAQ
<AlanBell> http://www.openmeetings.de/
<danfish> if everyone is at home connecting to a service on the external internet, we should be at fine, but if we have users within the N3 connection, we'll start to use up a lot of the available bandwidth
<AlanBell> oooh you mean the main N3 outlet
<AlanBell> I thought you meant your surgery uplink
<danfish> yes - main N3 uplink - but that's also our surgery uplink
<AlanBell> so you might be a bit unpopular if you gobble it all up
<danfish> a tad, yes. How would all those managers update their facebook statuses?
<danfish> mind you, we've been thinking of getting a second internet connection for a while and switching to voip while we are at it
<AlanBell> http://www.n3.nhs.uk/News/N3boostsNHSInternetGatewaytoprovidefasteraccesstokeyhealthcarewebsites.cfm
<AlanBell> they are about to move from 3Gbps to 5Gbps for the main uplink
<AlanBell> and london has a 10Gbps backbone
<AlanBell> so the facebook updates should be safe
<danfish> heh - I'd missed that one. Looks like some traffic shaping will be happening.
 * oimon remembers to slap the uupc on his mp3 player before leaving for the day
<popey> Dont forget to enter the competition!
<bigcalm> I can't actually remember what the question was
<bigcalm> Or what the prize was
<popey> prize was an audio book
<popey> non-drm mp3
<bigcalm> Ah, yes
<AlanBell> oimon: I can't find a computer society http://www.qmsu.org/sportsandactivities/societies/
<AlanBell> dutchie: o/
<AlanBell> http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=181466028575187
<popey> http://www.manolution.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/history-of-computing-full.png
<popey> fun
<ali1234> popey: what is wrong with that pie chart?
<ali1234> the pie has colours not in the legend
<ali1234> and the shading makes it impossible to tell which is which anyway
<ali1234> also windows 7 0.8% market share, and vista not even visible? there's no way that is correct
<popey> isnt 7 going to be the 36.5?
<directhex> ali1234, i think the correct colours are on the outer edge of the pie, not the top
<directhex> ali1234, yes, this makes it hard to read
<popey> linux is 0.8
<popey> oh, no linux is 5.1
<popey> 0.8 is mobile??
<popey> that cant be right
<directhex> popey, is that mobile?
<popey> ah ok
<directhex> popey, because of the broken colouring, it's impossible to tell the blues apart
<popey> so linux _is_ 0.8, mobile is 5.1?
<popey> yeah, bonkers
<bigcalm> From reading most of the items, sounds like it was made by an Apple fanboi
<shauno> none of the sources appear to cover his market share numbers.  that makes it rather awkward
<daubers> Lo
<davmor2>  ___________________
<davmor2> < popey is a muppet >
<davmor2>  -------------------
<davmor2>         \   ^__^
<davmor2>          \  (oo)\_______
<davmor2>             (__)\       )\/\
<davmor2>                 ||----w |
<davmor2>                 ||     ||
<Adriannom> lo
<davmor2> Adriannom: hello
<davmor2> daubers: hello
<Adriannom> got a i have a hp g61 running 10.04.  it has a hdmi port, which i'm using to connect it to a tevion tv.  the picture comes up ok other than the fact the colours are all screwed (white comes out pink, black comes out green, etc.).  any idea how i could find out what's wrong?
<Adriannom> the g61 is a laptop btw
 * Adriannom rereads the first line and frowns at "got a i have a"
<AlanBell> tried a dvd player or something on that hdmi port?
<Adriannom> nope, good point
<AlanBell> it is the computer, the tv, or the cable, see which you can rule out
<AlanBell> though I think hdmi cables either work or don't, I don't think there is anything inbetween
<Adriannom> right, well it appears there's nothing else in the house that can connect with hdmi :|
<Adriannom> there are two ports on the tv, tried the other one and it's the same
<AlanBell> it probably is the computer, but I have not come across that issue before
<AlanBell> ruling out the TV one way or another still sounds like a good thing to do
<AlanBell> can you try different resolutions?
<Adriannom> yeah all the same
<ali1234> popey: that puts "mobile" as the 0.8%, even though on the legend mobile is lighter colour and on the chart it is darker colours
<ali1234> popey: also what does "mobile" even mean? windows phone? iphone? if it's apple vs ms, why are they lumped in one category?
<shauno> because MS's mobile presence is a rounding error ;)
<AlanBell> bug 751735 | Adriannom
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 751735 in linux (Ubuntu) "[intel 82G35] HDMI color issues" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/751735
<ali1234> just the first chart on the image has so many problems i'm not even going to bother looking at the rest of it
<shauno> the pie chart sorely lacks sources.  makes it very difficult to take seriously
<AlanBell> Adriannom: can you type lspci in a terminal and paste in here the line that relates to your video card (it will say VGA in it somewhere)
<ali1234> shauno: here is some sourced data: http://www.indopost.com/blog/2011/06/worlds-smartphone-operating-system-market-share-in-2011-39-google-android-apple-ios-18-rim-blackberr.html
<Adriannom> 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Mobile 4 Series Chipset Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 07)
<davmor2> Adriannom: the issue might be the 10.04 drivers to be honest 10.04 is now a year old and the intel drivers have come a long way in that time
<Adriannom> hmm
<Adriannom> that bug does seem to fit
<Adriannom> davmor2, is there a way of installing older drivers?
<davmor2> AlanBell: g61 is intel gfx
<AlanBell> Adriannom: I would maybe try a live CD of 11.04
<Adriannom> AlanBell, ok i'll give that a go, cheers :)
<Adriannom> thanks for your help, byee :)
<JGJones> grumble...I always have expensive things breaking just after paying for bills, so I still have to shell out more...
<JGJones> wifey's Canon 18-200mm IS lens got jammed and is being repaired.
<MartijnVdS> ouch
<gord> managed to try out gnome-shell for a bit tonight, it does not like my gpu at all
<gord> sooo slooow
<MartijnVdS> gord: You should try unity
<MartijnVdS> !jpc
<gord> umm ok, i'll do that
<daubers> The great deku tree was somewhat dumb in acting against ganon so late
<daubers> also, 14 year old graphics on a brand new tv aren't very spectacular
<MartijnVdS> daubers: Try a ZX or BBC Micro on a 55" TV some time
<MartijnVdS> daubers: it's GREAT
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Still only 80 lines (or so) deep?
<hamitron> definately a ZX ;/
<MartijnVdS> daubers: of course
<hamitron> oh noes
<hamitron> my new tv doesn't have an analogue tuner
<hamitron> :/
<MartijnVdS> it doesn't?
<MartijnVdS> mine does
<MartijnVdS> DVB-{T,C,S} and analog
<hamitron> I hope the signal power booast lets me watch tv
<hamitron> :D
<MartijnVdS> ?
<hamitron> can't get decent reception
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> it is ok in the daytime sometimes, when no cars drive by
<hamitron> so fingers crossed :D
<hamitron> bbl, F1 2010
<daubers> Twenty three is number 1!!
<MartijnVdS> daubers: 25 or 6 to 4?
<daubers> also, wasn't there a meeting tonight>
<Core_UK> Hello ubuntu UK!
<daubers> Meeting 22nd June 21:00 BST #ubuntu-uk-meeting <- last night then
<Core_UK> Meh it was the same time as the debian meeting ><
 * jacobw wasn't aware debian had IRC meetings
<MichealH> AlanBell: Could I point the topic out to you? :P
<AlanBell> you could
<MichealH> AlanBell: The "meeting" was yesterday, It never took place so Uhh... The topic is old :P
<AlanBell> yeah, anyone seen cyberjacob?
<MichealH> I could be the next meeting chair if you wish
<MichealH> Heck, I could do it tommorow If you like
<AlanBell> bit soon
<AlanBell> monday or tuesday?
<MichealH> Tuesday
<MichealH> Please
<MichealH> Im out on Mon
<AlanBell> ok, if cyberjacob resurfaces then he can chair, otherwise MichealH
<AlanBell> shall we do an earlier one perhaps
<AlanBell> 8PM?
<MichealH> Yeah
<MichealH> Tue 8PM
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 28th June 20:00 UK time #ubuntu-uk-meeting http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | Libraries, SciFi and Geeknicks 24th July!
<AlanBell> thanks MichealH
<AlanBell> lets also make tuesday a bit of a day to do the reapproval application
<MichealH> AlanBell: np
<popey> I wont be around on tuesday â¹
<daubers> I'm probably not either. Got to go to a potential customer in wantage
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
<Deedle-dah> hey there
<popey> hello Deedle-dah
#ubuntu-uk 2011-06-24
<AlanBell> morning all
<dogmatic69> o/
<DJones> Morning
<DJones> AlanBell: Do you know if #ubuntu-accessibilty is the right channel to point a disabled person to who wants to ask some questions about facilities for disabled users
<DJones> AlanBell: its ok, got the info & passed it on
<AlanBell> DJones: it is
<DJones> Thanks, that was my first thought anyway, & was confirmed when I looked at their website, passed the info on anyway
<AlanBell> Pendulum is the accessibility team lead
<DJones> Right, there was somebody asking about problems with certain key combo's in unity that were very helpful for them with a disability
<force> HEllo
<MooDoo> morning
<popey> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<MooDoo> morning popey
<bigcalm> Morning peeps :)
<popey> greetings mr calm
<bigcalm> Howdy popey
<bigcalm> Now I remember the down side to running Eclipse
<bigcalm> My machine sounds as though I'm playing Mincecraft
<bigcalm> Damn Java
<AlanBell> Mincecraft sounds tasty
<bigcalm> Hehe, oops
<popey> unless it has a green plastic back poking out of it
<bigcalm> Minecraft
<popey> *bag
<AlanBell> I still prefer to just use gedit rather than eclipse
<popey> http://twitpic.com/3i6gfy
<MooDoo> that reminds me not looked at the minecraft map in ages
 * bigcalm shudders
<MooDoo> not done your ant attack map yet then popey
<popey> MooDoo: not finished yet
<popey> whenever I go there I am reminded of the film I was watching at the time I made it
<popey> Shallow Grave
<bigcalm> Creepy
<bigcalm> For some reason I never saw the whole film
<diplo> I use netbeans, would prefer to use Gedit but I really like the project part of Netbeans
<diplo> Only downside as bigcalm says is it kicks the fans in ALL the time :/
<bigcalm> What I need from an IDE is the ability to view more than one file editor at the same time. Eclipse does this and is a resource hog. PhpEd is a better editor but doesn't do it
 * MartijnVdS has several vim windows open
<bigcalm> I need an IDE though that understands classes
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: ctags + vim + magic-completion
<daubers> Morning
<MartijnVdS> uhr, "omni-completion" it's called
<bigcalm> Eg, you start typing a class name and it suggest the full name. And further you do the classname plus :: and it offers public methods/variables/etc
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: yes, omni-completino
<bigcalm> Hummmm
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: ta, I'll look into it
<MartijnVdS> it has plugins for most languages :)
<daubers> Which IDE is this?
<MartijnVdS> vim
<MartijnVdS> (+ omni-completion)
<MartijnVdS> (+ ctags)
<daubers> Ahhhh
<daubers> I went off vim once I realised my laptop was now more than powerful enough to run eclipse
<MartijnVdS> My laptop is powerful enough to run eclipse. But I want to have a web browser open as well...
<bigcalm> Heh
<TheOpenSourcerer> With 6GB of RAM Eclipse is fine. I also usually have Hotot, Firefox, Chrome, Thunderbird and plenty of terminals open at the same time with no issues.
<bigcalm> It still a resource hog and very slow to refresh projects over a network
<bigcalm> Though that bit could have something to do with samba
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh I have local workspace but use subversive and remote svn repo over ssh
<daubers> I run eclipse on 4GB of RAM, all my projects are local though, and then pushed to remote places using bzr
<bigcalm> Does eclipse have svn support yet or is it still limited to cvs?
<TheOpenSourcerer> svn support is subversive
<bigcalm> I see
<bigcalm> Hummmm
<daubers> There is a bzr plugin :)
<diplo> bigcalm, netbeans supports SVN
<TheOpenSourcerer> there is aslo subclipse although I think that has been superseded by subversive
<daubers> (though I tend to just have a bash terminal open in the bottom pane of eclipse and do it through there)
<bigcalm> diplo: does netbeans work in windows?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I need to get more familiar with bzr/git etc.
<diplo> Yep, I run it on both windows and ubuntu
<diplo> Same here TheOpenSourcerer
<bigcalm> Hummmz
<diplo> Going to move from SVN to BZR on our web apps
 * daubers loves bzr
 * daubers shoves the podcast on his mp3 player and goes to build some servers
 * popey tickles aquarius 
<popey>  _____     _     _             _
<popey> |  ___| __(_) __| | __ _ _   _| |
<popey> | |_ | '__| |/ _` |/ _` | | | | |
<popey> |  _|| |  | | (_| | (_| | |_| |_|
<popey> |_|  |_|  |_|\__,_|\__,_|\__, (_)
<popey>                          |___/
<AlanBell> kicking in the back seat
<aquarius> .me is tickled
<bigcalm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzfQwXEqYaI # best version
<andylockran> Howdy
<popey> howdy howdy howdy
<andylockran> All chance :)
<krimzon2> yay friday
<bigcalm> My hand is a dolphin :)
<JamesTait> bigcalm: Have you been on the shrooms again?
<bigcalm> JamesTait: bit early for that, might have a coffee though. Watch the youtube video I pasted
<JamesTait> I can't be watching music videos when I'm supposed to be working. ;)
<JamesTait> At least I'm not paying by the megabyte though.
<JamesTait> And I'm not sure how I knew what that link was without clicking though. Maybe I have a youtube index stored in my brain.
<bigcalm> JamesTait: in reference to 'Friday'
<JamesTait> bigcalm: Oh yeah, I get it. :)
<andylockran> eww. AlanBell that mince pie photo has just make me sicky..
<popey> andylockran: you didnt eat it!
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<bigcalm> Morning
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm
<davmor2> morning all
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<Multivitamin> morn'n
<BigRedS> is there a tool that's likely to be on most systems for converting month names into numbers? (not 'perl' or 'bash', I'm trying to optimise a one-liner)
<davmor2> brobostigon: morning
<davmor2> czajkowski: morning prod
<czajkowski> bleugh
<kazade> morning all
<brobostigon> same i915 gpu lockup as in natty, now in debian sid.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: if the drivers are buggy, you'll see it on every OS
<MartijnVdS> uhr distro
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i reckon they are.yes.
<brobostigon> partly kms, and the intel drivers.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: which chip do you have?
<MartijnVdS> an "old" i915 or a new on-CPU one?
<brobostigon> 00:02.1 Display controller: Intel Corporation Mobile 915GM/GMS/910GML Express Graphics Controller (rev 04)
<brobostigon> old one.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: it might be an unfixable hardware thing
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: maybe,
<d3ngar> iknoia: that's just plain rude!
<d3ngar> erm, wrong channel
<windaub> lo
<davmor2> morning kazade
<TheOpenSourcerer> hah - real-time tweet-map using html canvas: http://n96.org/#lat=51,92*lon=-1,6*dist=355,08
 * brobostigon is thinking about pulling xserver-xorg-video-intel from debian experimental, but very risky,
<popey> nah, if it doesnt work, revert back
<BigRedS> yeah. at worst you'll only break X
<brobostigon> quite,yes, simpleenough,
<brobostigon> let me compae the drivers.
<brobostigon> problem solved,newest is in sid, which is the version i have,
<brobostigon> interesting, the bytemark advert, on linuxjobs ML.
<davmor2> MooDoo: Yay you're online Happy Friday!
<Laney> I quite like reading 'X' as a kiss
 * Laney winks at BigRedS
 * BigRedS blushes
<bigcalm> How sweet
<AlanBell> get a room
<BigRedS> We did, it's just that you're in it
<BigRedS> you bunch of pervs :)
<Laney> #ubuntu-voyeurs
<oimon> anyone know why "mencoder -vf rotate=1 -oac pcm -ovc lavc VIDEO0046.3gp -o out.avi -fps 25 " on lucid comes out without audio?
 * popey grrrs at the mailing list
<popey> "What would be really good is to just brainstorm, get a bunch of ideas,
<popey> NOT debate each one into the ground, just come up with ideas, the
<popey> details can follow later."
<popey> ffs
<popey> thread ends up being long and winding and nobody then offers more suggestions
<daubers> popey: Where'd you get that from?
<popey> my first mail to the thread
<BigRedS> I was just reading that thread
<popey> I wanted to have a bunch of mails with ideas not people debating the minute detail of _one_ idea
<BigRedS> I've a draft of "go to the pub more" minimized somewhere...
<MattJ> popey: You really thought...
<popey> send it
<popey> yeah, stupidly
<BigRedS> yeah, I'm trying to find it :)
<MattJ> How long have you been on the internet now? :)
<BigRedS> I conceded that it wasn't hard to rewrite
<daubers> ping AlanBell
<AlanBell> o/
<bigcalm> Oh my
<oimon> i know canonical don't really go in for advertising at this stage but maybe a loco could arrange for ubuntu adverts on the tube (paid for by sponsorship cash)
<bigcalm> A client just phoned me to find out why their website wasn't available. After scratching my head, I tried the hosting company's website. That's not available either!
<MattJ> Is their phone system available? :)
<bigcalm> I doubt my support email request will have reached the relevent persons
<bigcalm> I can't remember the number :)
<bigcalm> Firstserv
<MattJ> 0800 138 9220
<MattJ> Thank the Google cache :)
<bigcalm> And horay for twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/firstserv
<AlanBell> oimon: go research the costings
<oimon> i am already :0
<oimon> :)
<AlanBell> I suspect it will cost quite a bit, and you might struggle to put forward a convincing business case for sponsorship
<oimon> AlanBell: tube panel cards are quite cheap , but may require a minimum spend which is not specified http://www.cbsoutdoor.co.uk/Our-Media/London-Underground/Tube-Car-Panels/?t=0
<BigRedS> oimon: we need someone to make the advert, too :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> OT but a great post: http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/06/dear_emma_b.php
<daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: I like that :)
<oimon> is the word liberal there supposed to be sarcastic or not? i can't figure it out
<BigRedS> 'liberal' is one of those words that now means approximately everything
<BigRedS> I've seen 'liberal authoritarians'
<MartijnVdS> "Liberal" in American is a swear word, like "communist" or "socialist"
<daubers> BigRedS: Yes, it does seem to be used a bit too liberally these days
<oimon> most of the most spiteful and hate-filled people i know call themselves liberal
<oimon> mind you, some countries called themselves the Peoples' Republic..and they aren't really either
<oimon> so now when i see the word liberal as a self-penned description, i usually interpret that as "troll"
<oimon> it helps filter the information
<danfish> apparently we've a political party in the Uk called the "Liberal Democrats" - anyone heard of them :P
<oimon> danfish: except they don't know what they stand for
<AlanBell> !politics
<lubotu3`> Please take political discussion to ##politics-uk. Thank you!
<danfish> !cake
<hamitron> !cake!
<MartijnVdS> !lies
<lubotu3`> Mostly just statistics and factoids, but also windicators!
<oimon> just finished some lovely cake
<oimon> shared it among my colleagues of course
<hamitron> I got no cake, just bread
<hamitron> :/
<danfish> please take cake-based discussion to ##ohwhatalovelycake ;)
<hamitron> :D
<daubers> I like cake :(
<daubers> Also, cake is a very family friendly topic.
<hamitron> at least, on the face of it....
<danfish> Ok, we'll keep the cakes, but not fruitcake - that's just wrong
<hamitron> but cake can be so much more
<hamitron> ;)
<daubers> But!! Fruitcake is amazing with a nice cuppa on a cold day
<oimon> http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=ubuntu%20cake
<oimon> there, back on topic
<daubers> I had a housemate who used to eat fruitcake with cheese
<Guest96855> How can I verify that a CD I've just burned actually matches the original .iso file?
<hamitron> daubers: that works :)
<MartijnVdS> daubers: so he bit you? :P
<daubers> MartijnVdS: .... no
<MartijnVdS> daubers: .. sorry ;)
<daubers> Guest96855: Have a look at md5
<davmor2> Fantastic track "Wave your hands in the air like you don't care!" ....."Word up it's the code word".....ahhhhhh :)
<oimon> actually i have a question - anyone else seeing slowness in chromium opening a site? not sure if it's at the dns resolution stage..i'm on a really fast link here
<Guest96855> daubers, I can md5 the ISO .. but what about the CD?
<daubers> Guest96855: You can md5 that too by running md5 over /dev/cdrom or whatever your dvd drive is
<Guest96855> daubers, ah, ok.
<bigcalm> Is there a server setting that might stop domain_path cookies from working between servers?
<bigcalm> I meant cookie_domain
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: yes, by setting cookie_domain to only one server :)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: i.e. the full hostname of one
<bigcalm> I have cookie_domain set to ".example.com"
<bigcalm> So that www. and assets. can both share the cookies
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: then everything in .example.com gets your cookie
<bigcalm> It works locally, but not on live
<MartijnVdS> try *.foo.com?
<bigcalm> A client's asset server is a physically seperate machine
 * bigcalm tries
<MartijnVdS> wait.. no
<MartijnVdS> the separate machine bit shuoldn't matter
<bigcalm> Damn it. Cookie information is exactly the same between servers. Maybe it's a DB record issue
 * bigcalm tinkers like the wind
<AlanBell> top tip, don't tinkle upwind
<bigcalm> :D
 * bigcalm makes a note
<bigcalm> Maybe it's time for an afternoon coffee
<davmor2> bigcalm: don't tinkle in the wind do it in a toilet like the rest of us :D
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v620/theweaselking/main6/20c3e92a.jpg
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: that guys just a show off
<bigcalm> davmor2: don't you wish you could do that?
<bigcalm> Not that I would want to touch the floor in a men's bog
<BigRedS> anyone know what the premissions openssh actually wants for a chrooted sftp are? It's doing that wonderful thing of saying I've got them wrong, but not what they should be
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/590 ?
<BigRedS> yeah, it wants more than just owned-by-root it seems
<BigRedS> It's happy with the user being unable to write to the chroot dir
<BigRedS> which seems normal, except I'm sure the user used to be able to write there...
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: yes, so the user can't drop a .ssh/authorized_keys
<BigRedS> I *thought* it used the user's ~ for ssh bits and bobs for precisely that reason?
<BigRedS> docs seem either to be scarce or to be hiding from me though
<MartijnVdS> apt-get source... :)
<BigRedS> yeah, that's rapidly looking like the simplest way :)
<BigRedS> oh
<BigRedS> it just worked
 * BigRedS logs out 
<BigRedS> still with no write access to the chroot dir, but I'm going to assume that's how it's expected to be
<BigRedS> it was way easier when it was a right pain to set up and look after but still predictable when it failed...
<davmor2> hey ebo ebo ebonettes
 * MooDoo yawns, 
<bigcalm> Is there a simple way of pushing changes in a svn repo out to multiple servers at the same time? I'm getting tired of SSHing into 3 machines, sudoing and svn upping
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> Poor emma
<popey> my poor disk space
<bigcalm> Â¬.Â¬
<bigcalm> What does df -h say?
<popey> /dev/sda1              30G   28G  989M  97% /
<dogmatic69>  /dev/sda1             447G   30G  395G   7% /
 * dogmatic69 wins
<bigcalm> popey: 28GB of logs?
<bigcalm> :P
<BigRedS> logs in /?
<popey> everything in /
<MooDoo> well em is back in ubuntu-meeting :)
<popey> not here tho
<MooDoo> well no :)
 * bigcalm naps on the kb
<bigcalm> dddddddddddddddfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
<davmor2> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xo74Dn7W_pA enjoy
<dogmatic69> lol
<dogmatic69> in #cherokee
<dogmatic69> <Zathraz> ah. ty. I am running ff over ssh with X forwarding: the save button was blue on a blue background. I kind had missed it .... :P
<dogmatic69> sounds like a production server...
<dogmatic69> i thought i was bad, never needed to actually install the GUI though :D
<danfish> CURRY
<newboyintown> tuGood afternoon i need some help would anybody be able to help me please as i have just installed this sofeware and i have a problem?
<danfish> !ask
<lubotu3`> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<danfish> :)
<newboyintown> like i said i am new to ubuntu......!!!!!!!
<newboyintown> have a acer laptop model number (5736Z), running ubuntu 10.10, Update manager informed me that there is a upgrade to the latest stable version of 10.04 , I upgraded and the installation went like clockwork,until the laptop rebooted. The display is so dark that you can hardly see the screen.  I made the mistake of contacting acer and all they wanted to do is say that my laptop is faulty.....ACER YOU DON'T HAVE A CLUE WHAT YOU 
<newboyintown> this laptop to talk to you now!!
<X3N_> newboyintown: looks like a known issue http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=10740136&postcount=3
<newboyintown> thankyou X3N..
<JGJones> Hmm...quick question ladies and gentlemen - I have a Sony VAIO laptop that I want to sell, but on the point of selling it now display a SMART message that the HDD is going to die on me. Do I either: a) buy a new HDD, reinstall Windows etc or b) just sell it with the message that the HDD is on its last legs - which would be better on eBay? thanks
<X3N_> JGJones: I'd offer to replace the hdd or sell it with none
<brobostigon> afternoonings everyone.
<newboyintown> X3N thankt could you but could you explane what grub is?
<newboyintown> thankyou^
<X3N_> It's a small worm that is often used for fishing, but that's not important right now
<X3N_> (It's a small program used to boot up the main operating system)
<newboyintown> ok.....how do i use it to try and sort out my prob.......
<Azelphur> how do I stop ssh always asking for the passphrase for .ssh/id_rsa?
<Azelphur> I have the passphrase, I just don't want it to ask every time xD
<shauno> JGJones, I'd be real wary of just stating on the auction that the drive is dying.  I've found in the past that buyers are illiterate, and paypal's on their side
<chris99> Guest96855: something like: cmp thingy.iso /dev/cdrom       - may have to run it as root though
<Azelphur> popey: TF2 is free now :o
<popey> hah
<Azelphur> it's madness, all my servers are completely full
<Azelphur> 96 online right now...my servers kinda struggling haha
<Azelphur> few people in the sourcemod channel whining that they can't take the load too, rofl
<popey> is it free for the weekend or forever?
<Azelphur> forever
<bigcalm> O M G
<bigcalm> There's a sequal to Alice
<Azelphur> they make enough revenue off hats, so TF2 is free now xD
<bigcalm> Somebody needs to hide my credit card from me
<Azelphur> lol
<bigcalm> Any of you play American McGee's Alice?
 * davmor2 snaps bigcalm's cc into tiny ickle pieces
<bigcalm> davmor2: erm, ta
<davmor2> bigcalm: well hopefully now by the time the new one has arrived something shiney will of distracted you from looking at alice II
 * BigRedS apologises to popey 
<JGJones> Not just that, Valve make more than enough off Steam, they can afford to give away TF2 and also continue updating it :)
<dwatkins> how about the hosting though?
<popey> haha
<TheOpenSourcerer> Have a jolly fine weekend all - it should be hot too!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Off to Cricket practice in a sec.
<popey> ooo
<popey> School ball for us tomorrow :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> Move away from your computers and go OUTSIDE for a change.
<popey> yup
<dwatkins> good calll, TheOpenSourcerer \
<dwatkins> :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Laterz.
<popey> o/
<Core_UK> sup
<BigRedS> g'morning
<czajkowski> popey: what's School ball ?
<davmor2> czajkowski: it a ball at a school quite obvious when you think about it :D
 * czajkowski stabs davmor2 
 * czajkowski goes back to studying 
<davmor2> czajkowski: What you asked I told you,  it's probably just a dance at the school to raise funds for the school
 * czajkowski hugs davmor2 
<davmor2> man Peter Falk has died bummer
<zleap> who
<brobostigon> the actor that played columbo, most famously.
<davmor2> zleap: Princess Bribe story teller, columbo and others
<davmor2> Bride even
<zleap> ah
<zleap> i know who you mean
<davmor2> zleap: http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-peter-falk-obit,0,7288457.story
<JGJones> Burp...I'm drinking coke. Ubuntu Cola to be specific :D
<JGJones> Fairtrade cola from www.ubuntu-trading.com - look like they use the Ubuntu font too for the Ubuntu logo...wondering about copyright or whatever for Ubuntu (the OS)?
<popey> czajkowski: a piss up
<davmor2> popey: let me guess raises money for the school and has dancing
<popey> yes
<davmor2> told you czajkowski
<popey> all the girlies at the school in their prom gowns
<popey> and all us dads getting drunk
<popey> and the mums saying "don't they look lovely"
<popey> etc etc
<davmor2> popey: Hammered I think is the word you're after
<windaub> lo
<zleap> how do I get an event added to here http://ubuntu-uk.org/category/events/
<czajkowski> zleap: one of the team admins;/contacts can add it for you
<czajkowski> zleap: so ask AlanBell
<zleap> ok thanks
<AlanBell> o/
<AlanBell> JGJones: they have been doing that for ages, I have had some
<daubers> \o/ Star Trek
<brobostigon> ?
<zleap> star trek - where
<brobostigon> ST 12 ?
<daubers> DVD :) Just watched the most recent film
<zleap> ok
<brobostigon> ST 11,
<brobostigon> a disaster, as a startrekfilm,
<zleap> ah the prequel
<brobostigon> yes.
<brobostigon> allthat is ST  about it, is some St elements, and that is it,
<brobostigon> otherwise it is simply a modern non trek action film.
<zleap> problem with all the prequels like enterprise and the new film (not seen the new film) is that the ships look far far more advanced than the simplicty of the original series
<brobostigon> zleap: and continuity goes out of the window.
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> like the star wars films
<brobostigon> quite.
<zleap> in fact star wars prequels leave big continuity errors
<brobostigon> zleap: the wholeof ST 11, is a continuity error,
<zleap> ah
<zleap> they should really go sideways maybe make a film involving klingons or something
<brobostigon> zleap: other than leonard nimoy appearing as spock,  as he was after TNG.
<zleap> ah
<zleap> Nimoy was in the tos
<brobostigon> zleap: so contiuitly accurate, as he was in late tng.
<zleap> original series
<brobostigon> yes.
<brobostigon> aswell.
<zleap> oh yeah unification pt 1 and 2
<zleap> i think
<brobostigon> yes,
<brobostigon> you are right,
<zleap> that is kinda geeky but sad really eh
<brobostigon> it isnt, it is just remembering information,
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> i remember doing something like that on the dclug channel for st voyager
<zleap> describe an episode and i can name the episode
<brobostigon> zleap: i hang out in #memory-alpha, :)
<zleap> ohh is that a trek channel
<brobostigon> yes.
<MartijnVdS> only a little ;)
<zleap> cool
<brobostigon> :)
<MartijnVdS> m-a was the star trek wiki before all those wikias existed
<brobostigon> yep.
<zleap> ah
<zleap> i have the star trek fact files here
<zleap> take up a whole shelf,  they are in the way but i don't want to give em away they cost enough
<brobostigon> irl, people reckon i am a big ST geek/nerd.
<zleap> yay
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: do you walk around in the suit etc.?
<zleap> ok i admit going to a convention in 1997
<daubers> I quite enjoyed it. It keeps with Rodenberry's original idea of an almost Utopian civilisation as a stark contrast to the fark natured side of the rest of the universe
<daubers> and it's a lot of fun
<zleap> or was it 98,
<MartijnVdS> I have this on DVD: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120370/
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i have that in my cloethes drawer, it doescome out in-frequently. and not inpublic.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: ah, only when a lady is present ;)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: haha, :)
<zleap> at conventions they have people dressed as everytrhing hirogen,  klingon, star fleet officers,  even got uniforms for babies
 * daubers considers throwing on DS9
<MartijnVdS> daubers: Galaxy Quest!
<MartijnVdS> BY GRABTHAR'S HAMMER!
<daubers> MartijnVdS: I don't own that on DVD :( Keep meaning to pick it up
<zleap> i like space balls, but that is a spoof of star wars
<MartijnVdS> daubers: don't you have some sort of on-line movie rental service in the UK?
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Probably, but as it's the end of the month, I have no money
 * zleap also has a signed piccy of robert beltran :)
<daubers> also, it's like Â£3 in the HMV sale occasionally, so that makes more sense to me!
<gord> Martinp23, lovefilm, but its subscription based
<MartijnVdS> daubers: ah, St. Salaries' day is the 23rd here :)
<MartijnVdS> (usually)
<gord> MartijnVdS, ^^ even
<zleap> what is st salaries day
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Technically it's the last day of the month here, but as work uses the same bank as me, it's generally 3 days before :)
<gord> new rule, if you sharethe first two letters with someone else, you should change nicks :(
<MartijnVdS> zleap: it's a catholic holiday, celebrated every time your employer gives you money ;)
<zleap> ah
<MartijnVdS> zleap: (usually, St. Something's is once a year, this one is more often :))
<zleap> as we were talking star trek i thought it may have been star trek salaries day lol
<daubers> Could watch the Fifth Element instead of trek
 * zleap = duh
<MartijnVdS> I have that on DVD, VHS and Blu-Ray
<MartijnVdS> though the Blu-Ray version is _BAD_
<daubers> It's ace
<MartijnVdS> (some scenes are 16:9, others 21:9 with frame counters at the top/bottom)
<daubers> I do enjoy the occasional evening when the wifes out :)
<MartijnVdS> special effects scenes are not colour-corrected
<MartijnVdS> i.e. a bad blu-ray transfer
<gord> of course it is
<gord> its a sci-fi show
<gord> first transfer is always terrible, so you can get everyone to buy it again later ;)
<MartijnVdS> on-screen framecounters count as beyond terrible imho
<zleap> brobostigon, do you have star trekkin (song) by the firm
<gord> right yeah i would of taken it back
<daubers> \o/ Kettle on, Fifth Element in the DVD player
<brobostigon> zleap: i dont, no.
<gord> \o/ pizza on, ghibli on the xbmc
<daubers> Which ghibli?
<czajkowski> gord: all set for a nice trip
<gord> daubers, the cat returns
<gord> czajkowski, nope not at all, i'll do all my stuff the night before as always ;)
<ali1234> hamitron: eve incarna caused huge amounts of rage and now everyone is rioting in jita :)
<Azelphur> ali1234: I caused a huge amount of rage in bukkit and got banned :D
<ali1234> http://www.justin.tv/dnah_pmip#/w/1381128752
<ali1234> Azelphur: they've pretty much shut down the whole economy of the game
<Azelphur> haha
<Adriannom> anyone like using gedit for coding?
<ali1234> yes i do
<Azelphur> Adriannom: yea
<ali1234> gedit is great
<Adriannom> agreed
<Azelphur> using it right now
<Azelphur> :)
<ali1234> the only thing it can't handle is files with really long lines
<Azelphur> indeed, I've bumped into that
<Adriannom> http://www.fossfactory.org/project/p286 <-- if you think it's a good idea do chuck some $ into the bounty :)
<Azelphur> I've also bumped into a weird issue where my cursor is in one place, and when I paste, it'll paste somewhere else totally random in the document
<Adriannom> the link is for Super Git Senses (Gedit Plugin).  shame that's not in the url
 * BigRedS wonders if there's a vi plugin for gedit
<BigRedS> if there is, I want that
<BigRedS> too
<popey> my cat is on twitter
<popey> http://twitter.com/salempope
<Adriannom> i won't be claiming the bounty, i don't code in python, just want it to happen
<Adriannom> good grammar for a car
<Adriannom> a car or a cat
<Adriannom> both have terrible grammar in my experience :|
<ali1234> wait, i can write it in python? how much is the bounty?
<Adriannom> so far $14
<ali1234> :/
<Adriannom> ;)
<Adriannom> but if it's not a stupid idea maybe people will contribute
<ali1234> seems reasonable
<Adriannom> if they're not too lazy :o
<Adriannom> everyone who uses git & gedit should throw at least $2 at it right now! :P
<ali1234> how do i send monies?
<Adriannom> Sign up, it's pretty painless
<Adriannom> i think i'll put a comment to that effect on it actually
<ali1234> then what?
<Adriannom> looking
<Adriannom> "sponsor this project"
<ali1234> i dont have paypal
<Adriannom> there's another option
<Adriannom> "Pay with your debit or credit card as a PayPal guest"
<Adriannom> that's on the paypal website after you say how much you want to sponsor
<Adriannom> i'm new to the site myself, it could be more user friendly
<Adriannom> seems like a noble idea though, dunno why there aren't any alternatives
<zleap> can someone explain why a webcam can work properly with cheese then closing cheese and trying to use the same webcam with skype fails
<zleap> or even loading cheese up while skype is running results in cheese + webcam working fine
<zleap> and yes both configs are pointing to /dev/video0
<zleap> or seem to be
<Adriannom> ali1234, $16.58 :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] Making contact with Team contacts should be easy - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/06/24/making-contact-with-team-contacts-should-be-easy/
<kvarley> How can I run a command in a new terminal window and then keep it open? This: gnome-terminal --command="echo Hello World!" Runs the command but immediately exists
<popey> blimey, hard blog post
<zleap> kvarley, i think you can put a & at the end and it runs in the background
<zleap> then use fg to bring it to the fore ground
<kvarley> So gnome-terminal --command="echo Hello World!" &
<kvarley> Then from the terminal I  type fg?
<zleap> i think it needs to be run inside a terminal
<BigRedS> xterm has a --hold option that'd do that
<BigRedS> xterm --hold -c "command"
<zleap> thanks BigRedS
<BigRedS> and it'll run command then leave you with an open xterm window
<BigRedS> oh
<BigRedS> I just tested it and it didn't work :(
<zleap> hmm
<BigRedS> oh
<zleap> if you do joe & in a xterm it works
<BigRedS> -e "command"
<BigRedS> not -c
<zleap> then type fg joe it brings it to the foreground
<BigRedS> I think, though, that with -hold you do lose the terminal when the command finishes, just not the window
<kvarley> I'm trying to do this cos the gedit script plugin doesn't show terminal output until after the script terminates, is there a way to fix that?
<BigRedS> so you get the (end of) the output but no way to interact with it
<BigRedS> er, not sure without faffing with the plugin myself. is the problem that the script runs, produces a bunch of output and then immediately exits?
<BigRedS> just running it from a terminal should mean you can stilll see all the output in that instance
<kvarley> Well with gedit I tell it to run the current file with python, it does it fine but it doesn't show any output until I close the gui and then it terminates and then I see the output
<BigRedS> ahh
<BigRedS> hmm
<zleap> i am off,  chat later all thanks 4 your help tonigt
<BigRedS> kvarley: I'd expect there to be a setting in gedit to not close the terminal
<kvarley> Another question lol
<kvarley> How can I execute a file in ~/directory/
<richard> hi
<Guest35183> i have a challenge, every time i start firefox it default to a proxy connection
<Guest35183> any idea why??
<BigRedS> kvarley: ~/directory/somefile
<BigRedS> just give the shell the path to it
<BigRedS> Guest35183: at a guess, it's broken your profile
<BigRedS> try creating a second profile and seeing if it still does the seame?
<Guest35183> how do i do that??
<BigRedS> Gnome has a DE-wide proxy setting which used to break most apps that aren't native gnome
<BigRedS> Guest35183: alt+f2 to get a run command thingy
<BigRedS> then    firefox -ProfileManager
<BigRedS> in it and hit enter, you'll get the option to create a new one
<Guest35183> ok this is what it connect through
<BigRedS> uncheck the 'don't ask at startup' box else you'll need to do that again to go back to the old profile
<Guest35183> abine://auto-conf.js
<Guest35183> how do i get rid of  abine://auto-conf.js
<BigRedS> ooh, not sure what that is
<Azelphur> is there anything like top for networking?
<BigRedS> ahhh
<BigRedS> abine is a firefox add on for privacy
<BigRedS> so perhaps tor-like?
<Guest35183> it is what in the automatic config proxy url
<BigRedS> Azelphur: per-process? or just general usage?
<Azelphur> either would be good
<BigRedS> Guest35183: try disabling that plugin. do you want it?
<Azelphur> just curious to see how much bandwith my servers using right now under 100% load :P
<Guest35183> yes i had tor, but i uninstalled it
<BigRedS> Guest35183: Ah, this might be a remnant
<Guest35183> meaning
<BigRedS> Azelphur: iptraf?
<Guest35183> how do i get rid of it
<BigRedS> Er, tools->add ons in firefox
<BigRedS> and then click 'disable'
<Guest35183> ER?
<BigRedS> ignore that bit
<Guest35183> ok let me paste in the bin so you can see what i have as extension
<Guest35183> what is the paste bin url
<BigRedS> Azelphur: i've just remembered the cryptically-named 'ntop' :)
<Azelphur> fun
<popey> Azelphur: iftop
<Azelphur> my servers using 11mbit flat out
<Azelphur> for the past 14 hours :o
<popey> nic
<popey> +e
<Guest35183> bigreds  how do i paste a screenshot in the ubuntu pastebin
<popey> Guest35183: imgur.com is useful for that
<popey> bed
<popey> nn
<BigRedS> Azelphur: there's another handy one I saw the other day, but I can't find it now
<BigRedS> Shows a scrolling graph
<BigRedS> Guest35183: sorry, I was just typing when popey replied :)
<ali1234> Adriannom: i won't use paypal, not even as a guest
<Guest35183> ok thank you here it is http://i.imgur.com/jgnFvl.jpg
<Guest35183> as you can seethere is nothing such as proxy addon
<BigRedS> Guest35183: hm, not sure
<BigRedS> It's possible that it's a component of one of those plugins, or that something went wrong in the removal of the plugin and it's left that default behind somewhere
<BigRedS> I'm not sure how to fix it further, though
<BigRedS> Azelphur: ethstatus was the one I saw
<BigRedS> It's likely not what you want, but I've now remembered to install it where I wanted to, cheers! :)
<Guest35183> thk you
<BigRedS> Guest35183: it may be worth trying here again when the channel's a bit busier - it is 11pm UK time :)
<hamitron> ali1234: riot?
<hamitron> :D
<Adriannom> ali1234, that's fair :) i guess a comment would still be worth something, if you wanted to contribute anyway.  activity is always good
<BigRedS> even if it's just "please support $paypalAlternative"
<Adriannom> when i have less to do i think i'll make a better open source bounty site
<BigRedS> it's open sauce - contribute to that one! :)
<Adriannom> could do, i think i'll suggest they implement google checkout
<brobostigon> good night, sleep well everyone.
<Adriannom> nn
<brobostigon> good nigiht Adriannom
<Adriannom> there... http://www.fossfactory.org/project/p145 :)
<ali1234> hamitron: well as close to a riot as you can get with spaceships
<ali1234> they're clogging all the tradehubs and attacking the stations
<exobuzz> AlanBell, interesting discussion on the podcast regarding accessibility. perhaps as you are connected with the accessibility stuff, you could find out whether https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+source/mousetweaks/+bug/762806 is likely to be actioned soon? it is a simple fix, and it seems strange that 2 months after release, all mouse accessibility is still broken :(
<lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 762806 in mousetweaks (Ubuntu Natty) "[regression] shipped mousetweaks (3.0) does not work with shipped control-center (2.32), needs downgrade" [High,Triaged]
<hamitron> ali1234: you can destroy empire space stations now?
<hamitron> :D
<hamitron> god damn
<hamitron> a riot sounds like my sorta thing
<hamitron> :/
 * AlanBell looks at the bug
<exobuzz> AlanBell, ta
<AlanBell> exobuzz: ok, confirmed here too
<AlanBell> exobuzz: ok, that is a bit of a mess isn't it
<exobuzz> yeh
<AlanBell> I doubt upgrading control-center is a safe thing to do
<AlanBell> I have no idea if it is even possible to roll out a downgrade
<ali1234> hamitron: no, they're just attacking it pointlessly
<AlanBell> I don't think I agree with your statement that it is a simple fix
<hamitron> :/
<exobuzz> AlanBell, sorry i crashed.
<exobuzz> AlanBell, the easiest fix is to downgrade mousetweaks to gnome 2.x version (it will have to have a fake version number like 3.0.0+really2.3. or something i guess)
<AlanBell> yeah, that is nasty
<exobuzz> AlanBell, but temporary
<exobuzz> until next ubuntu
<AlanBell> oneiric has 3.1.2-0ubuntu1
<AlanBell> Gerd and Francesco are the Gnome maintainers and have commented on the bug
<AlanBell> exobuzz: I would add the suggestion of uploading it with a fake version number and see what they say to that
<exobuzz> k thanks
#ubuntu-uk 2011-06-25
<diplcm> join #oplss
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] As It Occurred To Him - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2011/06/24/as-it-occurred-to-him/
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> Can someone please guide me to understand memtest86 ?
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: what's there to understand?
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: if it shows lots of errors, your memory (or memory controller) is bad
<MartijnVdS> if it doesn't it's probably good
<AlanBell> morning all
<Myrtti> kaushal: run it overnight, if it doesnt show errors, your rig is probably ok
<Myrtti> kaushal: overnight ~= several passes
<popey> Morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o popey
<MartijnVdS> how's things on your side of the sea?
<popey> oddly my desktop dropped off the network just now
<safiyyah> got errors again!
<safiyyah> morning all
<MartijnVdS> popey: hmm.. oneiric? :)
<popey> no
<safiyyah> the fsck command to find errors
<MartijnVdS> I'm running Oneiric on my desktop.. it's.. flaky
<safiyyah> I think I am entering it wrong
<safiyyah> isn't it sudo fsck -l?
<popey> heh
<popey> rebooting modem has fix0r3d it
<MartijnVdS> strÃ¤nge
<safiyyah> guys?
<MartijnVdS> safiyyah: Why are you running fsck by hand?
<safiyyah> i am on live disk
<MartijnVdS> safiyyah: you can do filesystem checks using a graphical tool, so you don't have to remember the command line :)
<safiyyah> i got the samekernel panic error I has last week
<MartijnVdS> safiyyah: System -> Administration -> Disk utility, or start "palimpsest"
<safiyyah> okay, right, we tried all that last week and none of them worked
<safiyyah> the only thing that worked was a fedora live disk
<safiyyah> and the fsck command
<safiyyah> which I forgot to write down in my notepad
<safiyyah> would you be kind enough to give me the command?
<MartijnVdS> man fsck
<AlanBell> can't see a -l flag
<AlanBell> fsck /dev/sda1 is I guess the most likely way to call it
<safiyyah> AlanBell I was just about to say the same thing
<safiyyah> thanx AlanBell
<AlanBell> however all the GUI tool will do is call that command in the background
 * AlanBell hugs czajkowski 
<czajkowski> AlanBell: *hugs*
<czajkowski> what I do....
<AlanBell> nothing really
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<bigcalm[mob]> Morning peeps
<bigcalm[mob]> That is if there are any peeps awake in here :)
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm[mob] :)
<bigcalm[mob]> Life indeed
<bigcalm[mob]> Bored in a barber shop queue
<bigcalm[mob]> What brings you to irc on a Saturday?
<brobostigon> bigcalm[mob]: my byobu session on my vps, really.
<bigcalm[mob]> Hehe
<bigcalm[mob]> Other than that? A busy day?
<brobostigon> pottering around really.
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm[mob]: you're in the mob now?
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS :)
<MartijnVdS> \o
<brobostigon> o/
 * MartijnVdS is trying to figure out a way to light LEGO for photos
<MartijnVdS> daylight is unreliable
<popey> coal and sticks âº
<bigcalm[mob]> MartijnVdS: irc from my mob
<MartijnVdS> popey: Good idea, except I want to prevent burning (part of) my house, if at all possible
<bigcalm[mob]> MartijnVdS: make it out of cobblestone the
<bigcalm[mob]> Then
<bigcalm[mob]> Bloody phone keyboard is a paid
<MartijnVdS> it's a-paid :P
<MartijnVdS> Bunch of minecrafters. Should have known... :)
<bigcalm[mob]> See?
<bigcalm[mob]> Is there any other way of life?
<MartijnVdS> I was actually thinking of using these: http://www.p4c.philips.com/cgi-bin/dcbint/cpindex.pl?slg=en&scy=gr&ctn=6913255PH
<MartijnVdS> they give off a boatload of light
<MartijnVdS> all I need now is a way to hold them while I work the camera
<bigcalm[mob]> Duct tape, glue gun and staple gun
<sohaib> Hey guys, I have shared two folders on network via samba now the problem is whenever I restart my host, I need to configure the sharing via samba again. Is there any way to make it permanent?
<phonex01> Im using facebook chat using Pidgin XMPP and everything is ok BUT how can i join group chat ??
<directhex> does facebook use MUC for group chat? i don't know the answer to that
<Karti> sohaib, I have a network drive that I just bookmark in Nautilus and have no problems when its down (although they have fixed IP addresses)
<BigRedS> sohaib: is hte problem that the server stops sharing hte file, or that the client stops connecting to it?
<JGJones> I have to love Google for doing this - http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=google-youtube-auto-caption
<BigRedS> oh, awesome
<sohaib> BigRedS: whenever server restarts client is unable to access the shared stuff.
<StevenR> hrrm. what's "mumble" (in the context of team meetings)
<MartijnVdS> StevenR: it's "voice IRC"
<MartijnVdS> StevenR: multiplayer voice-chat
<StevenR> ahhh
<StevenR> thanks :)
<popey> Dear GTK people
<popey> http://static.arstechnica.com/1010review/Screenshot-Install.png
<popey> what are the GTK elements on that page that have ticks in them
<popey> I want to do something similar, showing status of something in an app
<MartijnVdS> popey: checkboxes?
<popey> no, the things above
<popey> with the ticks in them
<popey> green
<MartijnVdS> popey: they're probably custom thingys
<MartijnVdS> popey: you'll have to look at the installer source to check
<popey> ah
<popey> yeah, i grabbed the source, and tried to open the .ui file in glade
<popey> but it barfed
<MartijnVdS> grep for the text next to it
<popey> Failed to load /home/alan/Development/ubiquity-2.6.10/gui/gtk/stepPrepare.ui.
<popey> The following required catalogues are unavailable: gtkwidgets
<popey> ok
<MartijnVdS> ...
<popey> ubiquity/gtkwidgets.py:               'that you are plugged in to a power source',
<MartijnVdS> "StateBox"
<MartijnVdS> (in Oneiric)
<MartijnVdS> ubiquity/gtkwidgets.p -> class StateBox
<popey> hmm
<popey> I'd rather use standard stuff
 * popey wonders how else to render this
 * popey makes some boxes
<danfish> afternoon a;;
<danfish> oops s/a;;/all
<danfish> I just mounted an S3 bucket under fuse and run "df -H"
<brobostigon> afternoonings danfish :)
<danfish> s3fs      282T      0   282T   0% /mnt/s3
<danfish> brobostigon: o/
<danfish> I think that's enough backup space ;)
<brobostigon> yes :)
<danfish> how's is going brobostigon?
<brobostigon> danfish: not bad, upand down, and interesting experiences and information. and you?
<danfish> much the same really
<brobostigon> :)
<danfish> main problem is not enough time in the day
<brobostigon> :(
<brobostigon> i need more useful time,where  mymind isnt destracted.
<brobostigon> with more importent things, and focus on less importent things.
<shauno> ugh.  why do work have to block 22.  making my morning a lot more difficult than it should be
<popey> heh
<popey> ssh on 443 ftw
<shauno> yeah.  I do that for hosts I control
<shauno> for trying to restart my vps via bitfolk's xen shell, I'm kinda stuffed until I go home
<shauno> usually if I really need 22, I jump off from this one.  doing that to restart this one would be problematic
<shauno> odd one that I want to run again to get a copy of the error.  they moved me from one machine to another.  the kernel I was using on the previous machine apparently didn't boot on this one
<shauno> 2.6.32-31-generic booted, -32-generic didn't.  be curious to know why  (stands to reason that if I was on this hardware originally, a kernel update would have rendered an unbootable system)
<BigRedS> different modules? depends on the definition of 'didn't boot'
<shauno> that's why I want to try it myself.  that's all the definition I got :)
<shauno> "it didn't boot so we tried the next kernel in the list, which did"
<BigRedS> ahh
<jacobw> haa
<jacobw> </partridge>
<Azelphur> haha this is so epic, it's like my server got slashdotted or something xD
<Azelphur> gone from 4000 hits/day to 8000+hits/day, 60GB/day 6.5mbits avg to 140GB/day 13mbits avg \o/
<Azelphur> getting loads of donations, loads of adsense, so fun \o/
<shauno> good to know there's positives to the extra traffic.  free to play, not free to Azelphur :p
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> I'm actually going to make a profit this month if it keeps going like this
<shauno> score
<Azelphur> I have a feeling the email I'm going to get tonight informing me of players it's decided are regulars and thus invited them to the steam group is going to be epic too
<Azelphur> (I run a magic gadget that detects if a player has been playing for more than 5 hours, and invites them to the steam group on the basis that they are probably interested / a regular)
<shauno> so maybe you won't have to sell a kidney to pay for your electricity bill now ;)
<Azelphur> haha
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: don't tell people you get adsense money, or Google'll drop you
<Azelphur> why?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: read their T&Cs, you can't do anything that raises click-rates (no pointing them out, etc.)
<Azelphur> yea, I don't
<Azelphur> I occasionally get players that click the ads just to give me money, I tell them not to
<MartijnVdS> just making sure :) I've seen several high-profile accounts be deactivated
<Azelphur> yea
<Azelphur> but saying I get money from adverts is kinda obvious, lol
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Read the T&Cs, you shuold report such people to Google so they can keep your click->sale stats OK
<MartijnVdS> yes it's a pain
<Azelphur> *shrug* my click to sale stats are probably terrible because I specifically positioned the adverts so people would accidentally click them
<Azelphur> :x
<MartijnVdS> ...
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> It's a common tactic
<hamitron> saying it in a public logged channel maybe isn't clever though ;)
<Azelphur> *shrug*
<hamitron> hehe
<Azelphur> it's not against the T&Cs to do that
<Azelphur> positioning adverts where people will see it / click it, there are no rules against it XD
<shauno> making them 100% tall & wide, and 99% transparent, is probably bending it a bit tho :p
<Azelphur> yea they arn't, it's perfectly legit
<Azelphur> shauno: http://game.azelphur.com/fastdl/motd/
<Azelphur> shauno: it's designed to show up in game, so it uses the games font (you probably won't see that in your web browser) and also the advert drops right to the bottom left, next to the continue button :p
<Azelphur> designed to target the embedded browser in the game and nothing else :p
<shauno> tricky
<shauno> I'd assume that's a little irritating if you actually click it, and get whisked out of your game and back into a browser
<Azelphur> shauno: nah, the browser is entirely embedded into the game
<Azelphur> so if you click it, it loads inside the game, and you can still click continue if you want to
<shauno> ah
<Azelphur> shauno: I specifically opt against stuff that's invasive
<Azelphur> I recently turned down $1.50/1000 views for video adverts
<shauno> apparently your site isn't famous enough, it's escaped whoever we outsource our nannyfilter to
<Azelphur> haha, web of trust don't like me
<Azelphur> http://www.mywot.com/en/scorecard/game.azelphur.com
<Azelphur> no idea why :(
<shauno> I think it's because on your article about the fps delusion, you've spelt max_vsync wrong
<shauno> no-one trusts typos
<Azelphur> it's not a typo
<Azelphur> :p
<shauno> it's meant to be mat?
<Azelphur> yep
<Azelphur> azelphur.com has a good wot rating, it's game.azelphur.com they hate for some reason
<shauno> never heard of web of trust before
<Azelphur> it's a popular firefox addon that protects you from phishing websites
<Azelphur> 21.7 million users
<JGJones> a bit like PhishTank?
<Azelphur> sounds like that sort of thing, yea
<Azelphur> shauno: I'm probably gonna have to buy a second server though lol
<Azelphur> http://reliablesite.net/v4/dedicated-servers.aspx I'm currently on the i7 860, I'm hoping to get 7 servers on it but I think it will struggle
<hamitron> you could buy a few servers and rent rack space
<Azelphur> I might switch to 2 Q9550s
<hamitron> :)
<Azelphur> yea or that, but then I'd need to ship it to NY
<hamitron> or have some UK servers
<hamitron> ;D
<Azelphur> NY is fine from UK, I get like 90ms
<Azelphur> that's why I chose it, NY seems pretty good from most places
<hamitron> "now expanded to the EU"
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> yeh
<BigRedS> Azelphur: I used to run a game server for my brother for EU/UK people, we went with Strato in Belgium who came fairly highly recommended
<Azelphur> yea, most of my players are US though
<Azelphur> http://game.azelphur.com/hlstatsxce/hlstats.php?mode=countryclans&game=tf_surf&sort=nummembers
<Azelphur> also wow, I've wasted 1,011 days of americas time
<Azelphur> haha
<BigRedS> ahh, by quite some margin!
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> it's quite funny because most of the active members in the community are english
<Azelphur> but most of the actual players are american
<BigRedS> In your position, though, I'd be paranoid and get the second server with a different company in a different DC etc.
<BigRedS> ahh, peculiar
<Azelphur> I like reliablesite tbh, they are the cheapest you can get in "NY"
<Azelphur> (dark fiber direct from NY to a datacenter in NJ, yay for cheating)
<MartijnVdS> it's not dark if it's got bits going through it
<Azelphur> well, it was dark
<Azelphur> they bought it hehe
<Azelphur> but yea reliablesite are good, they gave me a deal when I was starting up and have been generally useful and rather stable
<Azelphur> in the ~8 months I've been with them there has probably been around an hour of network downtime
<Azelphur> and I had a RAM failure where they somehow performed time travel to replace the RAM
<BigRedS> Ah yeah. There are benefits to being in the same DC, too, especially if you'd like the servers to talk to each other
<Azelphur> oh yea, they absolutely need to talk to eachother
<Azelphur> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/May%202011/2011-05-03-031958_570x498_scrot.png <-- time travel
<BigRedS> haha, not bad, <60s shutdown,swap,boot
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> we actually looked at the time stamps and they sent the reply 1 second before I sent the email
<Azelphur> so they detected I'd shut it down, and emailed me before I could email them telling them it was shut down
<BigRedS> though I have in the past forgotten to send out the "I've shut it down" email until I've gone to write the "it's back" one
<Azelphur> hehe
<popey> Azelphur: that server is good value
<popey> less than 90 quid a month!
<Azelphur> indeed, I spent a while shopping around
<popey> or is that the price with no disks and ram :D
<Azelphur> I even haggled with them :D
<Azelphur> nope, it's a fully working server and works great
<popey> how much disk/ram do you get for that?
<Azelphur> I pay $147/mo for the i7 860 because I wanted extra IPs
<popey> right
<popey> and how much traffic?
<Azelphur> 10TB
<popey> golly
<Azelphur> yea, they don't mess about
<Azelphur> it's blazingly fast too
<Azelphur> as I say been with em 8 months and I got no major complaints
<popey> nice
<Azelphur> there's the odd couple of second network hiccup (but that seems to have stopped now), they had a couple short outages, the ram failure as I say was replaced really fast
<Azelphur> at the end of the day whatever dc you go to you'll get hardware failure at some point though it's all about how fast they respond, and these guys respond time travel fast xD
<popey> heh
<Azelphur> but yea, totally recommend them if you want a dedi they've been great
<popey> I'm probably going to get a VPS and use EC2 for my next project
<Azelphur> hehe
<popey> not gaming of course
<Azelphur> yea :)
<popey> need to play with ec2 more
<Azelphur> I may well switch from my i7 860 to 2 of the Q9550 units
<Azelphur> ...funny enough, I need the extra bandwith
<Azelphur> (awesome problem to have is awesome)
<popey> heh
<popey> right, off out, ttfn!
<Azelphur> cya :p
<shauno> I finally figured out what gmail is useful for
<shauno> I don't get kicked off the wifi if I leave gmail open, because it's making near-constant requests
<shauno> :D
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> shauno: is that android that your getting kicked off with?
<shauno> nah.  the 'guest network' here is a captive portal that has an uncomfortably short idle timeout
<Azelphur> oh, annoying
<shauno> and I don't like putting my own laptop on the proper network because then they know who it belongs to :)
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> shauno: I always carry my android phone with me and tether to it
<Azelphur> never have to bother about other peoples useless internet
<shauno> I have 3g, but o2 have been utter pants lately
<Azelphur> :(
<Azelphur> shauno: have you seen giffgaff?
<Azelphur> they use o2's network, but they are awesome
<shauno> o2.ie != o2 ;)
<Azelphur> o.O
<shauno> giffgaff get charged full international roaming here
<BigRedS> I sometimes tether with mine, but it's always achingly slow :(
<shauno> yeah.  that's the other benefit of hopping on work's network
<BigRedS> Though my dad got a BTOpenzone sub with his net connection, to which I have the passphrase, and most places I'd otherwise want to tether has openzone
<shauno> especially on the weekend, when I'm 33% of the people in the building, wifi limits me before the internet does
<shauno> so , I wonder what the grand plan is going to be, with firefox ditching security updates in such short cycles
<jacobw> good question
<shauno> that's going to be rather awkward for LTSes
<Azelphur> yea, IE has been jumping on the bandwagon telling everyone to switch to IE for LTS haha
<shauno> heh
<shauno> I think I'd like to see movement towards a gnome-native gtk-webkit browser as the 'sensible default'
<shauno> something that can be beat into a sensible release schedule, while firefox & chrome race around whatever this new fetish for major versions is
<BigRedS> how close to that is epiphany?
<shauno> no idea.  last time I used epiphany it was mozembed
<BigRedS> it's webkit and I'm pretty sure it's part of Gnome proper
<shauno> neat
<shauno> so .. erm .. why don't people use it ?
<BigRedS> Er, people do :)
<BigRedS> But FF has more marketshare so is default more frequently
<shauno> is it in the default seed?
<BigRedS> and it's got more extensions and the like.
<BigRedS> I've lost track :) I know I've had to manually install it a couple of times, but I don't know which distros those were
<shauno> I think ff & chrome have enough mindshare that people can find them if they want them
<jacobw> its not as fast as FF
<shauno> I mean, they manage on windows, without the help of the software store
<shauno> really?  I use ff on mac & xp, where it feels like the bloated pig I drag out when I really need the kitchen sink
<BigRedS> yeah, and there'd be no reason necesarily to not ship with them
<BigRedS> I'm pretty sure ubuntu comes with both ff and chrome but only one as default...
<BigRedS> Or have I only got FF 'cause this install dates from it being default?
<shauno> well, that was my original query.  does shipping them mean we're going to start to see a browser that's difficult to support over a whole LTS
<shauno> I mean, when 10.04 came out, 3.5.x was current.  now it's 5.0 and they want to drop security updates for 4.x
<BigRedS> ah yeah. if the upgrade's not automatable, but the support ends also, that's a tricky situation
<BigRedS> heh. just got told off by a friend for grumbling about being on call
<BigRedS> she's just graduated as a doctor...
<shauno> heh, well who's great idea was that ?
<jacobw> haha
<BigRedS> haha, nah, I've just had a "you don't know the meaning of on call", 'cause sitting around waiting for servers to break is apparently less arduous than trying to stop people dying
<jacobw> i complained to a friend who works as a nurse on a dementia ward about my job being the same thing over and over again :|
<BigRedS> haha!
<jacobw> speaking of doctors.. i'm watching house season 7
<jacobw> best season yet
<BigRedS> Aw man, I've been meaning to watch that since it started
<BigRedS> I keep not starting in order to start from the beginning
<BigRedS> well, that's my excuse anyway. Really, I'm just awful at watching tv...
<jacobw> i downloaded half it, watched it, was hooked and had to wait two days for the other half to download
<BigRedS> haha
<pete_> hey all
<BigRedS> good morning
<pete_> anyone know how to get ubuntu to pick up the hostname from dhcp
<pete_> and set it
<jpds> pete_: As in, set the system's hostname from DHCP?
<pete_> yes
<pete_> i have an NFS diskless booting environemnt
<pete_> and I want the hostname to be set by what is sent from the dhcp server
<jpds> You can tell the DHCP client to send its hostname to the DHCP server and have it set up DNS from that.
<pete_> i don't really mind about ddns at this point
<pete_> the difficulty is getting ubuntu to change it's hostname
<pete_> it's just using the one that was in /etc/hostname
<jpds> Yeah, it just sounds wrong.
<zleap> s you want it to dynamically assign a host name
<pete_> yes
<zleap> is there not a file that lists ip addresses and hostnames
<pete_> ie I add a stanza in the dhcp server to give it a hostname, boot the machine and off it goes
<hamitron> option host-name?
<pete_> well yeh
<pete_> i did that
<pete_> :)
<zleap> have a look here http://linux.die.net/man/8/dhclient
<zleap> The Internet Systems Consortium DHCP Client, dhclient, provides a means for ... the client sends can be set using the -g flag, followed by the IP address to send. ... The -H <host-name> option allows you to specify the DHCP host-name ..
<zleap> abiove bit is from the google search
<zleap> ah -H
<pete_> that's the wrong way round
<pete_> I don't want to "request" a hostname
<pete_> as a client
<zleap> ok sorry
<pete_> I want the DHCP to tell me what hostname I should be using
<pete_> heh
<pete_> no worries
<hamitron> can't you specify it in the dhcpd config file?
<pete_> well i have
<pete_> but the client isn't accepting it
<pete_> or is ignoring it
<daubers> lo
<BigRedS> hi
<pete_> may have found something - looking now
<BigRedS> oh, that actually works
<dmtarmey> hello ?
<pete_> hmmm well it now uses localhost - and not what was set in something else
<hamitron> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=71587
<Myrtti> hohum
<zleap> anyone here,
<brobostigon> o/
<zleap> good that means i am still connected
<brobostigon> :)
<zleap> i seem to be subject to my router disconnecting and irc not telling me for ages (time out)
<brobostigon> i see.
<MartijnVdS> http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/5869967197/
<MartijnVdS> Fun with Lego :)
<BigRedS> haha
<zleap> lego rocks
<MartijnVdS> These guys are â¬2 each
<MartijnVdS> (scientist, hazmat guys)
<MartijnVdS> you don't know which one (out of 16 possibilities) you'll get though
<penguin42> does the hazmat guy clean up after the scientist?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: look at the next picture :)
<penguin42> bananans can be dangerous
<MartijnVdS> exactly!
<dragonkeeper_> hi   how do i boot a iso file from grub     i tried  http://paste.ubuntu.com/632616/   in the grub.cfg file    but when i try to load it  all i get is a constant  white _     what am i doing wrong ?
<Mat__> Hi
<Guest80908> I can't log into ubuntu any more after it shut down, I was hoping someone could help.
<MartijnVdS> Guest80908: do you get the login screen?
<Guest80908> Yes, it accepts my passwords, goes to a black screen, then back to the password screen.
<Guest80908> I can log in from the recovery console
<MartijnVdS> Guest80908: if you select "recovery mode" (or something) from the graphical login menu, you should be able to get a terminal
<MartijnVdS> Guest80908: then type "gnome-session" and tell us any error messages
<MartijnVdS> !pastebin
<lubotu3`> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<Guest80908> I'm currrently using a live usb
<Guest80908> Nothing works from the graphical login menu
<Guest80908> I can only get the recoery console if I access it through grub
<MartijnVdS> if you select your username (before typing your password) from the login menu
<MartijnVdS> you should be able to select a "recovery" option
<zleap> nite all
<MartijnVdS> y0 zl
<MartijnVdS> hm
<MartijnVdS> he left
<Guest80908> ok, I will do that from the recovery console and be back shortly - thank you
<MartijnVdS> Guest80908: no you should do that from the "normal" graphical login screen
<Guest80908> If I change options from the normal graphical log in screen, to any of the other options (such as recovery/ gnome clasic etc) then it does the same thing - just goes back to the log in screen
<MartijnVdS> hmm
<MartijnVdS> did you remove packages?
<Guest80908> No
<brobostigon> do you have gnome-team ppa?
<brobostigon> gnome3-team ppa?
<MartijnVdS> evening brobostigon
<brobostigon> evening MartijnVdS
<brobostigon> ie,faulty gnome-session.
<Mat84> Hi again, sorry, I was guest80908, but have switched to my gf's laptop as the live usb wasn't liking my wireless card that much
<Mat84> heh, quite good timing!
<Mat84> brobostigon - I'm not sure about gone3-team ppa, if it is something I had to manually add then no, I wouldn't have had it.
<brobostigon> Mat84: yes, you will have had tomanuallyadd it, but there was anissue,similer to what you desribe, within gnome3's gnome-session fromthere.
<Mat84> ah ok, no, I was using unity
<brobostigon> ok, no, you wont have that issue then.
<brobostigon> well, that ppa'sissue.
<Mat84> I have tried to log in from recovery using fail safe graphics, but it is the same issue
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
<Mat84> sleep well
<Mat84> Does anyone have any suggestions for things that I could try?
<brobostigon> good night Mat84 , thank you.
<MartijnVdS> Mat84: if the "safe mode" doesn't work, I have no idea
<Mat84> ok :(
<Mat84> I can get to recover mode from grub though
<Mat84> and I can log into the console
<Mat84> Maybe I will have to reinstall
<penguin42> Mat84: What's the last thing you did when it was working?
<Mat84> Shutdown
<penguin42> erm did you make any changes before that?
<Mat84> nope, but skype had crashed
<Mat84> no updates, no new packages or anything like that
<Mat84> I can log in to the console via grub (loading recovery mode) - but not from the graphical interface from a normal boot
<penguin42> skype crashing isn't too odd
<penguin42> Mat84: OK, so what exactly happens if you try to boot normally?
<Mat84> yeh, I certainly wasn't expecting this!
<Mat84> so I get the normal Ubuntu logo
<Mat84> the little noise, then the log in screen
<penguin42> good
<Mat84> click my name, put in my password
<penguin42> then?
<Mat84> it's accepted
 * penguin42 waits in anticipation
<Mat84> black screen, back to logon screen
<penguin42> ok
<Mat84> with the little noise again
<Mat84> sometimes, there's a brief flash of console text in the black screen
<penguin42> Mat84: What session type had you got selected on the login screen?
<Mat84> it doesn't make a difference, they all do the same
<penguin42> ok
<penguin42> Mat84: Can you logon with the console?
<Mat84> yeh
<penguin42> good; can you do a graphical login that fails, then switch to the console and see if there is a /var/log/Xorg.0.log.old and see if there is an error at the bottom?
<Mat84> ok, will try for you (you may have to be patient with me, not to great with the console yet)
<Mat84> not that I can see
<penguin42> hmm
<penguin42> can you issue the command ls -l /var/log/Xorg.0.log.old  and see what it says
<Mat84> it says /var/log/Xorg.0.log.old
<Mat84> and I meant the file was there, but I couldn't see any errors (not that it wasn't there)
<Azelphur> up to 13mbit/sec average on my dedi now >.<
<BigRedS> #
<Mat84> Hm, have read through the whole log, couldn't see any errors
#ubuntu-uk 2011-06-26
<penguin42> Mat84: OK, so if it's not the X server that crashed it must be something else, can you pastebin the output of dmesg ?
<Mat84> wow that's long
<penguin42> Mat84: There's a command you can install called pastebinit
<Mat84_> hm, not sure how I'd get it from my laptop to this one
<penguin42> Mat84: Other than not starting graphics is the other laptop connected to the net?
<Mat84_> I don't know
<Mat84_> haven't used the internet from the console before
<Mat84_> sorry :(
<penguin42> Mat84_: No problem; issue the command sudo apt-get install pastebinit
<Mat84_> "WARNING: The following packages cannot be authenticated!"
<penguin42> It shouldn't do that
<Mat84_> python-configjobj pastebinit
<Mat84_> yeh, does that mean it's not online?
<penguin42> no
<penguin42> does it carry on and ask if you want to install it?
<Mat84_> yweh
<Mat84_> "install these packages without verification"
<Mat84> sorry, got disconnected, back now
<penguin42> Mat84: OK, so I think you can now do sudo dmesg | pastebinit
<Mat84_> yeh, the laptop isn't online, it failed to resolved gb.archive.ubuntu.com
<jpds> Cool.
<penguin42> Mat84_: Bah ok, erm what's the last few lines of the dmesg say
<Mat84_> it's all stuff about the wireless card
<Mat84_> cycling through the channels
<penguin42> Mat84_: hmm that's boring; hmm - well look, what you can try and do is move all the config files out of your user directory and see if that lets you loging
 * penguin42 eats that last g
<Mat84_> ok I'll give that a try
<penguin42> Mat84_: So, logged in on the console try something like     mkdir   baddotfiles;   mv .g* .c* .X* .x* .m* baddotfiles
<penguin42> Mat84_: Then logout of the console and see if you can login on X - I may have missed some
<Mat84_> ok, and that will leave all my work stuff alone yeh?
<Mat84_> is says "mv: cannon stat .m* : No such file or directory"
<Mat84_> what folder do I want to be in when I run the command?
<penguin42> your home directory; just leave the .m* off
<Mat84_> is says it for all of them
<penguin42> Mat84_: It'll only move the files into the 'old' directory, it should leave work files etc - but even if it doesn't it'll dump them in old
<penguin42> odd - you really should have some dot files
<Mat84_> this is from user@computer:~$
<penguin42> yeh
<Azelphur> haha, my brother was messing around with the 3 site trying to get it to send him the 3 skype android app, messing around changing the URL and stuff to trick it
<Azelphur> and three just sent him a text message, "No."
<penguin42> haha
<hamitron> :D
<Mat84_> there are some .files, but nothing starting with those letters...
<Mat84_> could it be that be the problem?
<Mat84_> ok, ignore my blatent disregard for English
<Mat84_> *could that be the problem
<GaryLittlemore> I'm running Ubuntu 11.04 x64 I've install program and then removed it but when I go into 'Application' the icon is still in there. But when I click it nothing happens. How do I remove the icon?
<Mat84_> penguin - should I maybe try creating a new user and see if they can log in?
<penguin42> Mat84_: Yes that's definitely a good idea
<Mat84_> *crosses fingers*
<Mat84_> ok, they've logged in fine...
<penguin42> Mat84_: Cool; so one or more of the . files in your old users directory is probably broke
<Mat84_> ok
<Mat84_> so for this user there is a .config folder
<Mat84_> but there was not for me
<Mat84_> would it be a stupid idea just to copy that directory?
<Mat84_> I just created the empty directory .config
<Mat84_> and it now works!!
<Mat84_> can log in
<Mat84_> thanks so much for your help penguin
<penguin42> Mat84_: I wonder where the heck your .config directory went?!
<Mat84_> no idea
<Mat84_> but it's a pretty big thing to have gone wrong!!
<Mat84_> and why, if ubuntu didn't find one, it didn't create a default one?
<Mat84_> all my application configurations have gone, but that's not a problem
<Mat84_> maybe a few saved passwords in firefox I won't remember, but that's hardly the end of the world!
<Mat84_> all my data is there which is the important thing
<Mat84_> (and to be fair it was mostly backed up anyway)
<penguin42> Mat84_: Actually youre mozilla stuff probably is still there
<Mat84_> nope :(
<Mat84_> even though that was in a different dictory
<penguin42> Mat84_: Are you using encrypted home directory?
<Mat84_> yeh
<penguin42> ok, keep an eye out to see if anything else has disappeared - sounds like ecryptfs had a bad day
<Mat84_> hm, so you think some of my files might be corrupted/missing?
<penguin42> well, if .config disappeared who knows what else did
<Mat84_> man I hope not
<Mat84_> everything looks fine...
<Mat84_> files I've checked all open ok, and anything important is backed up
<Mat84_> I was thinking of installing gnome3, but I might leave it, had enough issues with ubuntu for this week!
<jacobw> gnome3 has bigger controls than gnome2
<penguin42> yeh, you should only install it if you know how to dig yourself out of the whole it might create
<jacobw> other than that.. the differences are minimal.
<Mat84_> and as you can tell penguin, I can't ;)
<jacobw> ?
<Mat84_> jacob, I am not a strong enough linux/ubuntu user to fix any problems that switching to gnome3 might result it
<Mat84_> *result in
<jacobw> i wouldn't bother with gnome3, unity is better
<jacobw> apps>paradigms.
<Mat84_> I'm not a big fan of unity
<jacobw> it has its cons
 * jacobw thinks 12.04 will be great :D
<Mat84_> I'm just happy to not be using windows7, ubuntu broke last Sunday, and tonight was the first chance I've had to fix it
<jacobw> what's up with it?
<Mat84_> nothing now :D
<Mat84_> thanks to penguin
<jacobw> :D
<Mat84_> but as it turned out, after a normal shutdown, couldn't log in, and the .config folder had gone!
<jacobw> i've also had trouble with ecryptfs
<Mat84_> nothing I have is super confidential, maybe I should turn it off?
<jacobw> i'm sure its possible
<jacobw> sorry..
<jacobw> not sure
 * jacobw is silly with negations
<Mat84_> ah ok
<Azelphur> http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/ATT-No-Longer-Wants-Kevin-Mitnick-As-A-Customer-104035
<Azelphur> hahahaha
<Mat84_> :)
<Mat84_> hm, one thing that doesn't work, is evolution
<jacobw> mitnick is awesome
<Azelphur> indeed
<jacobw> the guy who inspired me to learn about computers :|
<jacobw> in a time lapse however.
<^aDaM> Morning all :)
<AlanBell> morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
<danfish> ahoy hoy saveloys!
<danfish> gonna be a scorcher in the UK :)
<MartijnVdS> danfish: what, with 15C and clouds?
<danfish> MartijnVdS: heh - nah, already 24C in my garden :)
<MartijnVdS> danfish: Sounds good :)
<MartijnVdS> "Deep South"? ;)
<danfish> just call me Bubba ;)
<danfish> (apologies to any Americans from Louisiana for that gross generalisation)
<danfish> local resident's association BBQ today - I'm wearing my Natty T-Shirt and have a few CD's in case asked :)
<kvarley> Is there a gnome app which will let me shrink a dvd9 to dvd5?
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: there's dvd95
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: which should help :)
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: Thanks :)
<MartijnVdS> never tried it though
<kvarley> conversion error with dvd95 lol
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<daubers> Morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
<brobostigon> morning daubers and MartijnVdS
<alexcockell> HI all, I'm a little worried on the Firefox front with what I'v eread..
<brobostigon> why?
<alexcockell> At least I trust Ubuntu devs will shim it to not lose too much in usability...
<alexcockell> I'm an LTS-LTS user - I am not looking forward to having to relearn or yank more and more per-user addons to regain functionality..
<alexcockell> Major releases every 6 weeks?!
<AlanBell> alexcockell: it is a browser. URL bar at the top, content below, click on the links to go other places. What could possibly go wrong?
<alexcockell> Status bars?  Adblocker, Noscript version handling...
<alexcockell> Citrix plugins...
<alexcockell> Even the handling of site login info, cookies, histry, cache...
<alexcockell> How the hell am i supposed to verify that plugin x isn't going to bork my browser?
<AlanBell> hmm, dunno, how do you do that now?
<AlanBell> the only plugin I use is firebug
<alexcockell> I use Adblocker (ok, from the repos)
<alexcockell> Noscript..
<alexcockell> But I also have a lappie running XP that I use to remotely work..
<alexcockell> And that's still on 3.6.18... as are the Lucid client..
<AlanBell> I am missing the part where it is going to lose functionality or break cookies etc.
<alexcockell> But it seems crazy that Mozilla haven't thought of the enterprise.
<alexcockell> Yeah - but a tab-bar which scrolls?  Rather than being able to tell at a glance all the tabs you have open?
 * daubers sorts out his workspaces
<alexcockell> Apparently there are *all kinds* of usability own-goals..
<AlanBell> yeah, it has a tab bar that scrolls when the tabs get unreadably small
<AlanBell> there is a little dropdown to the right of it which gives you a menu list of all the tab names
<alexcockell> The problem is - there is no easy way for a nontechie to revert that behaviour in Edit/Prefs (or Tools/options inm Win version)
<AlanBell> why would a non-techie care/notice?
<alexcockell> You'd be surprised.
<alexcockell> I now do capacity planning - but I used to do support..
<popey> people should be beaten until the stop getting annoyed by the littlest changes
<popey> or something
<alexcockell> As in "user blindly accepts update - functionality is apparently broken without warning"
<AlanBell> user blindly accepts update, sees facebook still works, shrugs, continues pretending to work
<alexcockell> Hmm - however most of the user community have learned through "monkey see monkey do" processes.
<alexcockell> But reverting this behaviour apparently requires a developer-level change.
<alexcockell> Rather than a check-box on the Appearance tab.
<AlanBell> well it is just a UI improvement for people who have more than 14 tabs open
<AlanBell> 20 tabs on my other screen before it scrolls
<alexcockell> Yeah... but the methods for chaning/reverting requires the modification of a stylesheet...
<directhex> mozilla don't really care about long-term support models. and their enterprise support generally is pooey
<alexcockell> Which, if a user got it wrong, could bork the browser (effectively)
<directhex> still no group policy stuff on windows
<alexcockell> Yup - they're just handing it back to MS on a platter..
<AlanBell> you could write a plugin to change the tab behaviour
<alexcockell> Yeah - but another 3rd-party app.. another potential security issue.. another app to maintain...
<AlanBell> in general I think there should be more ldap/policy stuff in open source software, that is a fair point
<Myrtti> its nice to see that the world still rotates and the problems stay so small especially on IRC...
<daubers> problem is.... ldap is both hard and sucks
<AlanBell> yes, ldap should suck less
<alexcockell> Agreed...
<AlanBell> I never entirely got my head round it, everything seems to want a totally different and conflicting schema
<popey> friend of my /2
<popey> bah!
<daubers> Gah
<daubers> Wifes laptop stops responding to the network, she pulls the router power, I lose a half completed 4.3GB download
<MartijnVdS> wget -c :
<daubers> server doesn't like you doing that
<daubers> I think it upsets the sources load balancer
<MartijnVdS> Get a better server ;)
<daubers> MartijnVdS:  Not mine! Apples
<popey> wifey tells me one of her friends (who is a windows-hater) wants to get a 'netbook' for her daughter. but doesnt want windows on it.
<popey> dunno what apps she'll need but this is 'for school work' (hah)
<alexcockell> So she might need a Windows VM wayway?
<alexcockell> *anyway?
<popey> I wouldn't put a Windows VM on a netbook
<alexcockell> Yeah - point taken.
<popey> it's also two OSs to manage rather than one
<AlanBell> http://chrome.angrybirds.com/ works on firefox too \o/
<AlanBell> smoother in chromium
<popey> heh, just opened firefox on this computer, last time I used it was december last year
<daubers> Ooooh new phones week next week \o/
<daubers> Need to ask O2 for my PAK code
<popey> ITYM PUK code
<daubers> thats the welly
<daubers> Getting a Nexus S from work as my new work phone and a galaxy s 2 on my personal contract \o/
<AlanBell> popey: sometimes things open in firefox, sometimes in chromium, mostly I don't know which I am using
<AlanBell> so for messing about with compiz plugins I decided I needed two computers, so I can ssh into the one I will be breaking
<AlanBell> should I install oneirirc on it I wonder
<popey> tempted to switch to SSD on all my computers now
<popey> just lack of storage space that's annoying
<MartijnVdS> popey: you could use a NAS for that (like my Synology.. â¥)
<popey> yeah
<popey> i have a server with lots of space
<popey> but right now its..
<popey> Directory inode 2848245 has an unallocated block #3452.  Allocate? yes
<popey> doing a fsck...
<popey> â¹
<MartijnVdS> oops?
<popey> i shrank the volume
<popey> now fsck is reporting lots of those
<BigRedS> shrinking volumes is essentially playing russian roulette with your data :/
<daubers> popey: I have a NAS in the office thats stuffed with SSDs \o/
<daubers> Do want one for my mac mini and one for my laptop though :(
<BigRedS> AlanBell: smartphone ssh client?
<AlanBell> irssi connectbot
<BigRedS> yeah
<BigRedS> ah, I missed the beginning of that conversation :)
<penguin42> hmm last nights xorg-edgers seems to be very unhappy for me
<MartijnVdS> what happened?
<penguin42> black screen on kde, but some stuff running; when I did a kwin --replace form a console I got streams of errors 'this is a driver bug' out of it - unfortunately didn't remember the rest of the message - pre-breakfast bug
<penguin42> I'm a bit surprised actually to ind xorg-edgers contains a rebuilt kdebase-workspace
<penguin42> only noticed it while doing a purge
<penguin42> hmm breakfast is a good idea
<AlanBell> anyone use unetbootin? it just comes up with Boot Error for me
<BigRedS> I've used it several times without that error
<dwatkins> I've used unetbootin many times without problem, both using a manually downloaded ISO and the ones it downloads for me.
<BigRedS> In fact, once I've got over it's weird insistence upon my having already mounted the volume, I don't think I've ever had a problem
<daubers_> AlanBell: IIRC I get the boot error with the server CD
<AlanBell> ah, think it is because the usb was formatted to fat32
<BigRedS> thinking about it, it's been a while since I did a ubuntu with it
<BigRedS> Ah, or anything other than ext
 * AlanBell reformats to ext3 and tries again
<popey> uh
<popey> it _should_ be fat32
<popey> or vfat or whatever you call it
<dwatkins> I was about to say what popey said.
<AlanBell> http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-general-1/unetbootin-always-boot-error-upon-reboot-704042/
<daubers_> Mac Minutes are rubbish
<gord> for all the things i dislike in gnome shell, there are a few nice things - its nice that when you open activities all your windows are there - never really used expose ever
<AlanBell> well it doesn't seem to work with ext3 either, but different error
<BigRedS> gord: I _love_ the empathy integration in gnome 3
<AlanBell> with fat32 I get Boot Error, with ext3 it says missing operating system, then boots from hdd
<penguin42> AlanBell: I'm confused - I thought unetbootin did everything needed to the drive; I don't think you need to format anything
<BigRedS> or gnome shell or whatever it's called
<penguin42> AlanBell: You are telling unetbootin to use /dev/sdx not /dev/sdx1 ?
<AlanBell> penguin42: I didn't either
<gord> the main thing that bugs me about shell is how damn slow it is
<AlanBell> penguin42: I did tell it to use /dev/sdb
<BigRedS> I really dislike how it removes my workspaces just 'cause there's nothing on them
<BigRedS> I've no idea who thought that was a sane idea
<penguin42> gord: Javascript - what else do you need to say?
<gord> i mean, it took us six months of effort to get away from mutter, but it was worth it. you just can't stall the rendering pipeline in the window manager like clutter does
<gord> i can't figure out how to get it to launch a second instance of some application without it going to a new workspace, but i assume i'm just using my computer wrong
<BigRedS> there's a lot of htat in gnome3. "No, that's not what you want to do, so I did this for you"
 * AlanBell gives up on unetbootin and tries startup disk creator
<AlanBell> boot error
<AlanBell> yay, fixored
<AlanBell> that is worth writing up somewhere
<AlanBell> the bios was set to treat small USB devices as removeable disks and large ones as fixed disks
<AlanBell> tell it to stop that auto detection and treat it as a fixed disk and it boots
<brobostigon> interesting,
<AlanBell> now to plug in speakers for an eyes-free install
<mfraz74> is this the new netbook?
<AlanBell> no, it is an atom 230 desktop
 * AlanBell debugs sound issue and plugs speakers into power for enhanced audio performance
<daubers_> Hmmm, new version of xcode integrates git into the ide
<daubers_> Also, my chair needs oiling
<BigRedS> I think mine needs new seals
<BigRedS> I'm about 2" lower than I was this morning :/
<daubers_> people complain about eclipse being memory hungry, at least it doesn't freeze the whole desktop like xcode does!!!
<hamitron> lets just..... complain
<hamitron> ;)
<shauno> rabble rabble
<hamitron> after watching that last Grand Prix, I don't think my brain is active enough to think of stuff to complain about
<shauno> I've been finding xcode relaly quite strange.  I'm used to vim.  I'm not used to it constantly whining about how sloppy I am
<hamitron> hehe
<BigRedS> shauno: and "Syntax error: unexpected :w" all over the place?
<hamitron> "but I wanted it like that damn it!"
<hamitron> :D
<shauno> hitting cmd-s I'm used to.  having it constantly inject little threats about uninitialised vars is funky
<hamitron> how do you remove a new line in vim?
<BigRedS> backspace?
<hamitron> I can never get that working
<BigRedS> or s/\r//
<BigRedS> or \n
<BigRedS> yeah, \n
<BigRedS> s/\n//
<hamitron> hmmm
<hamitron> it is removing the new line in vi on debian now
<hamitron> I swear I've had problems with it before
<BigRedS> well, it depends what the newline is
<BigRedS> that wont match a dos newline
<AlanBell> yay, oneiric installed and working
<BigRedS> whoo!
<AlanBell>  just wish unity would play nicer with other compiz plugins
<BigRedS> oh yeah, any unity-on-a-laptop users fancy confirming whether bug 685338 is in unity? I can't see it not being so...
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 685338 in gnome-power-manager (Ubuntu) "Cannot ignore pressing of hibernate button" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/685338
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I wonder if "a compiz plugin" is the right place for it
<directhex> i repeat, this time when not knocked offline: argh
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: I don't object to it being one, but it has some silly dependencies and settings which really shouldn't matter to unity
<AlanBell> like it depends on largedesktop, which is provided by wall, and cube, and someone chose wall as the one it would insist on
<AlanBell> try to turn on cube and it gets all in a fluster and you end up with no desktop no nothing, so have to ssh in and do unity --reset
<AlanBell> which breaks all the other settings you changed
<MartijnVdS> ah yes, things like that
<DanielRM> Hello all.
<Azelphur> havn't seen you around in a while DanielRM :P
<brobostigon> DanielRM: good afternoon, long time no speak.
<DanielRM> I've been feeling the IRC itch recently. :P
<DanielRM> Plus I have a decent phone now so I can use IRC on the go.
<DanielRM> How are you all?
<brobostigon> DanielRM: not bad, interesting things have happened. and you?   also we have been looking after ##politics-uk.
<DanielRM> I'm fine thanks.
<brobostigon> :)
<DanielRM> Who thought of the current topic there incidentally? I owe them a drink, it made me laugh. :)
<brobostigon> DanielRM: i think that was AlanBell.
<penguin42> what is it?
<DanielRM> 'Current topic: AV Yes, No, or a quantum entanglement of Maybe?'
<DanielRM> AlanBell: should I ever meet you then I owe you a drink, be sure to remind me. :P
<brobostigon> :)
<alexcockell> Hmm - how to really cane an ADSL connection.. outside lots of Linux maint work..
<alexcockell> ... lots of video or audio streams from BBC servers...
<alexcockell> Oh - was meaning to ask - when 12.04 is being approached... are there plans to offer definitive hardware compatibility info based on actual systems?
<alexcockell> Considering Mark Shuttleworth's intention to go after consumers...
<MartijnVdS> people aren't really thinking on that level about 12.04  yet
<alexcockell> Not so much "will this or that component behave, but more akin to the netbook maint list...
<alexcockell> As in - "Will the upgrade take on my Lenovo Ideapad S12"
<MartijnVdS> alexcockell: there's the Ubunty Friendly program
<alexcockell> But offering lookups based on complete systems.
<MartijnVdS> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFriendly
<alexcockell> Yeah - OK - I bypassed that by buying my machines preinstalled from Linux Emporium - but I am a little concerned with all the issues around Unity and how much of a relearn it might be..
<MartijnVdS> it's not that hard :)
<MartijnVdS> and as long as the machine is not older than ~2-3 years and has hardware acceleration, you're fine wrt. 3D support
<alexcockell> Going from Windows to Hardy to Lucid on my Thinkpad R61 was only a little incremental... but muscle memory was usable.
<MartijnVdS> Unity is the same, as long as you turn off the global menu bits
<BigRedS> All the keyboard shortcuts remain, as far as I can tell
<alexcockell> Yeah - but maybe that ought to be sensed - so if someone is upgrading from Lucid it switches it off by default and gives you the option of turning them *on*?
<BigRedS> but the global menu is seen as a feture
<BigRedS> *feature
<BigRedS> by that logic, if you're upgrading to 11.04 it should notice and leave gnome 2 as the default DE
<alexcockell> Maybe if you're a Mac user coming across - but not coming in from Windows.
<BigRedS> Surely a feature is a feature, irrespective of what other things you might've used?
<alexcockell> Yeah - ease people in - cos they might be concerned if they;'re upgrading and maybe the WLAN card craps out.. or the display plays up.. they don't really want to be mucking about with a new UI as well.
<alexcockell> Question - have you wirked in 2nd line support?
<BigRedS> but then you'd never change anything by default
<alexcockell> *worked
<BigRedS> and then you'd be running Debian
<BigRedS> (which, incidentally, is why I'm running Debian)
<alexcockell> Hmm - yeah -- I can kind of see where you're coming from...
 * brobostigon is on debian right now, with gnome3/gnome-shell, and it is pretty much perfect.
<alexcockell> But I'm thinking of people tracking LTS-LTS on a machine they've bought preinstalled..
<BigRedS> still, at some point they'll get given unity
<MartijnVdS> they bought it 2 years ago! time for a new machine! :P
<DanielRM> Argh, apparently IRC doesn't like staying connected.
<BigRedS> and were it believed by canonical/ubuntu that unity was confusing enough that you don't want to risk using it, they'd not ship it at all
<BigRedS> the problem is that canonical disagree with several vocal users :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yep, netbook-remix.
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: and common sense
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: have you been watching those MS ads? :)
<alexcockell> Netbook-remix makes sense... on a netbook.
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: no, and I don't work for a hardware company either ;)
<BigRedS> haha
<MartijnVdS> I just like the shiny -- waiting for Intel to release Ivy Bridge i7s so I can upgrade :)
<alexcockell> Unity probably makes sense on a display up to about 11 or 12in...
<BigRedS> ms's current ad is basically "This woman's running an old PC and that makes her an idiot. You wouldn't want to be an idiot, would you?"
<popey> i use it on a 23" screen alexcockell
<popey> 1920x1080
<BigRedS> Unity works as fine for me on this biggy screen as gnome2 or kde or whatever did
<MartijnVdS> Ooh look, popey has more inches :P
<DanielRM> Apparently I just got 'outed' as a member of LulzSec. 0_0
<BigRedS> 23" or something, it's vast
<alexcockell> OK..
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: "Staggeringly vast" </Coupling>
<popey> wow, coupling.. blast from the past
<BigRedS> hah, yeah, that took a moment or two to register
<MartijnVdS> popey: Moffat has always been good :)
<alexcockell> I would, however, like to suggest that maybe easing people into the more jarring parts of the UI would be a good idea for the next LTS..
<BigRedS> easing people in? So supporting not just two UIs but several degrees between them?
<popey> MartijnVdS: was that his work!?
<DanielRM> What's Unity like for day-to-day use now?
<alexcockell> Maybe have it detect that it's being upgraded rather than clean-installed...
<MartijnVdS> popey: yes :)
<BigRedS> DanielRM: I find it absolutely fine. But I don't use menus and that's where most of the dislike appears to come from
<popey> blimey, news
<BigRedS> alexcockell: still, that's another setup, so more support & more bugs
<popey> DanielRM: in my experience the vast majority of hatred for unity comes from three camps:-
<MartijnVdS> popey: (also, "Steve" and "Susan" vs "Steven" and "Sue" irl)
<popey> a) people who have used it and don't like it
<popey> b) people who don't use it and don't like it
<popey> c) people who will never use it and don't like it
<popey> b) and c) are bizarrely quite vocal
<BigRedS> Those could all be the same person :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: because they want to keep the option to not use it
<MartijnVdS> popey: and that option is becoming harder to find by the day
<popey> that option has never not been there
<popey> pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffft
<BigRedS> it's as easy as it always has been
<MartijnVdS> popey: no but it's been cleverly hidden :)
<popey> ^ professional opinion
<popey> hidden on a fedora cd
<DanielRM> popey: I think that's always the same really.
<DanielRM> The most vocal ones are those least affected.
<popey> the rest of us who just use it seem not to be very vocal
<BigRedS> well, I'm quite vocal about my dislike of gnome 3 despite not using it currently
<alexcockell> All I'm suggesting is that group B could be people who are non-technical users using 10.04 as a tool and are worried that they'll come to update in about June next year then get thrown completely.
<alexcockell> The ones who will trustingly accept updates.  End-users.
<BigRedS> yeah, and rather than that you'd like to upgrade them to something that nobody else is using - some halfway-house between gnome2 and unity?
<BigRedS> _every_ ubuntu upgrade (IME) breaks at least one default
<BigRedS> this is just a bigger one than usual
<popey> heheh
<alexcockell> but a hell of a lot more visible this time..
<alexcockell> It's basically going from something akin to Windoes Classic to Mac without warning, from what I understand
<BigRedS> so at least it's obvious rather than the browser just not having any bookmarks in it any more
<BigRedS> it's nowhere near as big as that
<popey> "without warning"
<popey> lolwut
<alexcockell> Brwoser no longer has bookmarks?  WTF made Mozilla do that?
<popey> I think you're _somewhat_ over dramatising for comic effect here alexcockell
<BigRedS> no, when the default changed
<MartijnVdS> alexcockell: "people don't use them"
<popey> I never use bookmarks, I don't care
 * MartijnVdS uses the bookmark bar all the time
<BigRedS> when on upgrade sensible-browser went from FF to chrome (or whatever) people probably logged in, opened the browser and found no bookmarks
<MartijnVdS> as a "quick links" bar
<alexcockell> Maybe.  But I also remember where a "minor" change has meant hell on a Monday morning..
<popey> so set you infrastructre up better
<popey> dont let users update their own machines
<alexcockell> Yeah - but I'm not talking corporate...
<jane_> #tog /join
<popey>  /join #tog
<popey> i think you mean
<MartijnVdS> jane_: other way around :)
<jane_> thanks I am a bit stupid
<popey> alexcockell: oh, sorry I thought your main point was corporate. my bad
<popey> no more than MartijnVdS
<popey> :D
<MartijnVdS> popey: :(
<alexcockell> I'm referring to some who, say, bought their machine from Linux Emporium...
 * popey hugs MartijnVdS 
<MartijnVdS> popey: I'm Dutch, not stupid :P
<popey> haha
<popey> I like that
<popey> get that as a tattoo
<alexcockell> Come June - they see the Upgrade Distro option - they click on it.. "WHAT?"
<popey> alexcockell: LTS users only see that in LTS
<popey> so they wont see it for 2 yearas
<popey> *years
<alexcockell> 1 year.
<popey> 10.04 to 12.04 is 2 years
<alexcockell> 2012 is next LTS, right?
<BigRedS> alexcockell: but your intended solution isn't ot just not upgrade, it's to invent yet another WM and upgrade them to that?
<popey> ok, 1 from now, yeah
<alexcockell> Not quite.
<alexcockell> Per-app menus are still available by removing a package?  Something?
<BigRedS> per-app menus?
<alexcockell> Can't remember it - but saw it in passing when people were complainign about scrollbars etc..
<shauno> non-global
<popey> !info indicator-appmenu
<BigRedS> oh, having the menu bar in the app window itself
<lubotu3`> indicator-appmenu (source: indicator-appmenu): Indicator for application menus.. In component main, is optional. Version 0.2.1-0ubuntu2 (natty), package size 23 kB, installed size 136 kB
<alexcockell> Menu bar on the app window as opposed to a Mac-llike menu
<BigRedS> I don't think that confounds users that much, perhaps it does, though. It's not what most people complain about from what I gather
<BigRedS> It irks me, though...
<alexcockell> Scrollbars was the biggie..
<bigcalm> Humm?
<bigcalm> Oh, not me
<shauno> the global menus aren't awful.  you drag the widget off the toolbar and everything goes back to normal
<BigRedS> scollbars?
<BigRedS> All the complaints I've seen are about the main menu
<BigRedS> well, >90%
<alexcockell> That as well..
<BigRedS> there's a guy here whose desktops keep magically realigning themselves which is hilarious
<alexcockell> .. but a bastard to work with...
<BigRedS> oh, probably. But I find it amusing when there's a sudden tirade of expletives behind me
<MartijnVdS> it's hidden by default, that's broken already
<BigRedS> I think he's back on gnome 2 now, though
<BigRedS> got bored of spending several minutes finding the right xterm window or something
<alexcockell> GIMP was also one that came up again and again - multiple subwindows - and with no minimise option...
<alexcockell> Dunno whether, if a bar at the bottom wasn't wanted, borrowing somethign from maximus might have been an idea?
<alexcockell> (running 10.04 UNR on this Ideapad)
<BigRedS> are ideapads the thinkpads with rouded edges?
<alexcockell> The netbook range.
<BigRedS> ohhh
<alexcockell> Which of course is another question - will Unity behave on a Atom+NVidia ION?
<BigRedS> all I can find of maximus is a gnome 2.x theme
<shauno> personally, I'm convinced no-one actually uses unity.  they sit on gnome2 and claim there's nothing wrong with unity.  it's the only way any of this makes sense to me :)
<BigRedS> I use unity on my home pc and my work pc
<BigRedS> but I also don't use windows or do very much with the mouse
<BigRedS> so, er, it feels almost exactly like gnome 2
 * TheOpenSourcerer hasn't moved to 11.04. Still on 10.10. My brief experiences with Unity were not very encouraging...
<BigRedS> don't use windows? Don't use menus
<BigRedS> Lies. You installed 11.10 earlier! :)
<alexcockell> Considering that most Wintel users coming in are more likely to be using Win Classic at work...
<alexcockell> Just thought I'd bung that in...
<BigRedS> If they're looking for windows classic, they should probably carry on using windows classic
<BigRedS> if they're not, then it doesn't much matter that unity's not a lot like it
<alexcockell> S'pose so... but if they're using Citrix off a home linux box to remote into work?
<BigRedS> then...
<BigRedS> I don't see the question there
<JGJones> alexcockell, I've got Unity running off a rather old Celeron laptop with Intel graphics and about 756MB of RAM - it's pretty smooth - I would imagine an Atom with NVidia ION should be fine.
<gord> ugh O is in such a  bad place today, i can barely install anything
<MartijnVdS> gord: it's been like this all week
<gord> okay shell threw up a notification because i started playing a new track, obscuring the bottom line of text on my screen, thats it, experiment over!, i need that line of text for my terminal!
<brobostigon> new topgear, bbc1, 8pm,
<MartijnVdS> yes
<brobostigon> :)
 * BigRedS wonders how long this series will be...
<Azelphur> wtf why did my servers load average just jump from 0.5 to 12
<Azelphur> 1.5MB/sec read and 200KB/sec write isn't bad for pretty much any modern drive right?
<hamitron> what sort of drive?
<penguin42> Azelphur: Depends the IO pattern
<penguin42> Azelphur: A drive shoul;d be able to do ~125MB/s
<penguin42> Azelphur: But random accesses all over the drive can probably only do ~150 a second
<penguin42> and a 150 wkb accesses is less than 1MB/sec
<Azelphur> 150 > 125? o.O
<penguin42> Azelphur: 150 accesses - not MB
<Azelphur> oh right
<Azelphur> my server just jumped to 14 average load and I have no idea why
<Azelphur> I couldn't even ssh it, whatever it was doing
<penguin42> Azelphur: move over there, read 4kb, move over there, read 4kb, etc - the moving takes ages
<Azelphur> yea
<zleap> How do you spell the 11.04 code name thing is it natty narwhal
<BigRedS> yeah
<zleap> thanks
 * zleap is trying to make my poster for 11.04 better, 
<zleap> have put a direct link on there to the uk ubuntu loco team
<marxjohnson> Can someone recommend me a decent UK-based VPS provider?
<AlanBell> hi marxjohnson
<AlanBell> bitfolk or bytemark
<marxjohnson> hi AlanBell
<marxjohnson> cool, those are the two I'm looking at :-)
<zleap> hi AlanBell
<marxjohnson> do you have a particular leaning?
<AlanBell> to the left
<marxjohnson> haha
<AlanBell> not really, they both seem good
<marxjohnson> cool, thanks
<AlanBell> there is a console on both to reboot your vm, but really they just never go down
 * AlanBell enjoyed being stunt double for marxjohnson
 * zleap is listening to latest podcast
<shauno> bitfolk have been fantastic, but I haven't used bytemark, so can't make a fair comparison between the two
 * marxjohnson enjoyed being able to listen to UUPC and not know what was going to be said
<czajkowski> Aloha
<popey> pip pip
<bigcalm> Hey czajkowski
<BigRedS> g'morning!
<bigcalm> It appears to be rather warm
<BigRedS> exceedingly so
 * AlanBell suggests ice cream
 * BigRedS would very much like some
<BigRedS> middle of nowhere, sunday evening = everywhere closed :(
<brobostigon> monty pythons,meaning of life, itv4 now.
<emorris> hi, occasionally I want to start an addition X server to run a particular application. From a VT, i can do something like startx /foo/bar -- :2, but attempting this from my existing X session gives "X: user not authorized to run the X server, aborting.". Is there any way I can give myself permission to start an X server from an existing X session?
<BigRedS> ooh, good call
<zleap> how do i edit the ubuntu south west loco team wiki page
<daubers> lo
<zleap> i clicked login,  logged in then didn't get taken back to the page to edit it
<popey> zleap: wiki is probably still broken
<zleap> AH
<zleap> why what is wrong with it
<popey> its broken
<bigcalm> Just copied a 77mb .tgz from FirstServ to RackSpace at 7mb/s
 * bigcalm wants that bandwidth at home
<popey> heh
<shauno> emorris: there's an option for that somewhere.  by default, it'll only let you start X from a local terminal.  trying to remember where the option lives :/
<gord> i downloaded a file from the internet to my laptop over 3g at 400kb/s today
 * gord wants that bandwidth at home
<emorris> shauno, I know you can do some xhost stuff, but I'd rather not
<bigcalm> gord: heh
<shauno> emorris: if it's what I think it is, man 5 Xwrapper.config and dpkg-reconfigure x11-common
<shauno> most likely your existing config (/etc/X11/Xwrapper.config) has allowed = console, so you can only start it from a VT
<emorris> shauno, bingo, thanks!
<shauno> iirc it stops startx from working inside screen too
<emorris> probably
<shauno> xhost controls who can connect to a running server; xwrapper controls who can *start* a server.  it's a much rarer fiddle
<emorris> shauno, good to know, thanks
<shauno> :)  feels good when people actually want to know arcane stuff from 10+ years ago.  it's all this modern stuff I'm useless with
<zleap> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/SouthWest
<zleap> i have updated this a little and the wiki seems to be working now
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
#ubuntu-uk 2012-06-18
<MooDoo> morning all
<directhex> oh, how unexpected
<directhex> latest bastion build seems to work happily on my laptop (intel graphics)
<ali1234> gamepad works for me too
<directhex> well, "happily". performance sucks, but intel.
<ali1234> but it has an unexpected side effect: it doesn't disable the screen saver
<directhex> oh? hah!
<ali1234> so when you use gamepad, you have to push the muse every 10 minutes or the monitor turns off
<directhex> i'll bring it up
<ali1234> gamepad is much better to play with anyway. it's almost impossible to run diagonal with wasd and you fall off the map all the time :/
<directhex> how's the rest of the bundle treating you, bugwise?
<ali1234> pretty good
<ali1234> only lone survivor seems to have anything seriously wrong with it
<ali1234> it is at least playable though with a fast computer
<ali1234> the only other thing that gave me any trouble at all was limbo, that was fixed by using distro wine instead of the packaged up version
<directhex> couldn't get sword & sworcery to work at all :/
<ali1234> really? works fine for me
<directhex> just garbage on screen instead of textures
<ali1234> odd. it's SDL and all the textures are PNG
<ali1234> and it uses opengl... so i don't really see how they could mess that up
<ali1234> meh, just listen to the soundtrack
<ali1234> if you watch the trailer for it you've seen the whole game anyway
<directhex> lol
<directhex> wouldn't bother with psychonauts until bug 5544 is closed
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 5544 in gnome-sudoku (Ubuntu) "[PATCH] gnome-sudoku absolute icon path" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/5544
<directhex> er, icculus bug 5544, not launchpad
<ali1234> er... actually, i haven't
<ali1234> is it a bad one?
<directhex> psychonauts? no, it's great. and the only AAA title in the bundle. but the linux port is... a bit premature
<ali1234> no i mean the bug
<ali1234> basically "missing cutscenes"
<directhex> missing textures.
<directhex> they're used heavily in that entire level
<ali1234> that means i get to download another 4GB .deb from launchpad
<directhex> but most noticably right at the start
<directhex> ali1234, this is why real packages have -common and -bin separately!
<ali1234> i know, i said as much myself!
<directhex> partly because debian lacks binary package diff support
<ali1234> or maybe i just thought it
<ali1234> there's loads of minor packaging bugs... like the giant meat boy icon aand the typos in limbo description
<ali1234> but they're trivial really
<ali1234> not worth putting out a new package for them
<ali1234> and even after the recent update for limbo it still won't run with the packaged wine
<daubers> Morning people of the interwebs
<AlanBell> morning all
<dwatkins> a perfect day for cycling
<daubers> Or roasting raw flesh over burning hot charcoal
<MartijnVdS> hmmm
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<daubers> AlanBell: I think we're missing a trick with Amateur Radio Rallys and promoting FOSS
<daubers> Did one in Newbury for the Reading Hackspace yesterday and we had more interest then their radio station
<diplo> Morning all
<bigcalm> Ahoy
<dwatkins> daubers: I assume you've seen the applications for RTLSDR TV tuners with radio signals
<czajkowski> aloha
<dwatkins> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software-defined_radio for the curious/uninitiated
<dwatkins> and good morning czajkowski :)
<czajkowski> how are we all this lovely sunny monday morning
<AlanBell> awesome!
 * AlanBell is using gnome-session-fallback today
<bigcalm> Sun burnt!
<DJones> bigcalm: In the UK? Can't be, are you sure it isn't rust
<bigcalm> I'll see if it'll wash off later
<czajkowski> bigcalm: eh how are you sun bburtn!
<czajkowski> *burnt
 * Laney zzzzzzzz
<czajkowski> Laney: know the feeling! :/
<Laney> last night my girlfriend and I found a drunk guy passed out on the street, in the pouring rain
<Laney> cue an hour trying to get him home
<bigcalm> czajkowski: I went on a ramble with the Disabled Ramblers that my parents are members off. Equal parts drizzle, grey skies, heavy rain and sun shine
<AlanBell> it wasn't me
<Laney> he looked a bit like Jamie Oliver!
<czajkowski> Laney: aww that was nice of ye
<Laney> well, in the end he ran away in the opposite direction :(
<bigcalm> Really you were trying to kidnap drunk people
<czajkowski> Laney: still at least you tried
<czajkowski> he probably wasn't used to people being nice to him
<czajkowski> bigcalm: again it wsn't that sunny how did you get burnt!
<gord> there was like 15 minutes of sunshine over the weekend
<gord> i ninja'd out the lawn mower and got the lawn done, but still not enough to get sunburnt
<bigcalm> czajkowski: I think I was unlucky :)
<czajkowski> indeed
<daubers> dwatkins: No.....?
<Laney> it is sunny right now :-)
 * czajkowski is in Canonical HQ their new office
<czajkowski> rather nice
 * AlanBell will have to come visit that soon
<diplo> At 2004 F1 GP it was cloudy the whole weekend, my face basically turned into a blister because i thought like you czajkowski
<diplo> Still can get burnt if it's cloudy, don't need bright blue skys
<czajkowski> what is F1 GP in english ?
<diplo> I have hidden the photos I was that bad, a blister on my nose the size of a 50p peice
<diplo> Formula 1 Grand Prix
<diplo> So what ever the weather now, always take sun cream out if we are on walks
<diplo> :)
<czajkowski> well mate wears factor 50 always as she's so fair she burns far too easily and there is skin cancer in her family
<czajkowski> me on the other hand needs temperatures of over 30+
<diplo> I think I just shy away from it now :(
<czajkowski> https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-BNaVG9DoVOc/T97n7nrcQSI/AAAAAAAAEOM/-tOa670NozU/s928/Screenshot+from+2012-06-18+09%3A32%3A33.png  todays desktop :) oh so cute
<mattt> diplo: i'm paranoid too, always wear sun screen
<diplo> 2 x young boys seems to have brought me more with it as well
<mattt> where is the new canonical office btw ?
<diplo> 5th Floor, Blue Fin Building
<diplo> 110 Southwark Street
<ahayzen> diplo: Behind Tate Modern?
<bigcalm> Ooo, the sun has brought out the freckles on the back of my hands
<bigcalm> I'm turning into my mother
<BigRedS> oh, I used to work across the road from there!
<BigRedS> the building that currently has no walls on Lavington Street, that's where I was
<JamesTait> Morning all! :)
<diplo> Anyone know of finding out what encoding has been used on a video from the CLI ?
<ali1234> mplayer
<diplo> kk, taking a look ta
<Guest89192> what
<diplo> Cheers ali1234, obscure command I found but worked.
<MartijnVdS> diplo: ffmpeg -i can tell you
<MartijnVdS> diplo: or mplayer -identify
<MartijnVdS> diplo: or exiftool
<MartijnVdS> diplo: if you want a less obscure command next time :)
<mgdm> 'file' generally isn't too far off
<mgdm> and works for more than just video
<diplo> File didn't show anything really
<diplo> Sorry was making teas etc :)
<diplo> I didn't try identify on it's own..
<diplo> Though exif was just for pics, shows how much I know
<Flashtek> o/
<davmor2> morning all
<diplo> exiftool didn't work but ffmpeg/mplayer did ta
<diplo> Morning :)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: Eaten many Israeli spy/assassins recently
<davmor2> MooDoo: morning dude, just playing catchup with twitter/FB
<MartijnVdS> diplo: exif is usually for pictures, exiftool can read lots of metadata from lots of formats (not just EXIF)
<mattt> BigRedS: i love that area
<mattt> but glad i don't work there, i'd spend too much at that market :)
<BigRedS> Yeah, used to love being able to wander over to the tate for lunch
<BigRedS> I didn't go to the market much, thinking about it. Used to go to the weekly bike meet there but that was in the evening when it was closed
<MooDoo> davmor2: nutter ;)
<bigcalm> 1.5 hours left to my day \o/
<davmor2> MooDoo: if I'd of caught that post I'd of gone through the whole gambit of "I'm dying here......" not surprised if you're trying eat a member of hammas
<davmor2> bigcalm: Sciving git
<MooDoo> lol
<czajkowski> davmor2: HELLO!!!
<bigcalm> davmor2: off to Telford Crematorium
<BigRedS> Hummus?
<directhex> humerous
<davmor2> BigRedS: you'd need to see his post
<davmor2> bigcalm: Ah I don't envy your sciving then
<bigcalm> davmor2: though that would be the case
<bigcalm> The sun is shining at the moment, maybe it'll stay like that
<davmor2> czajkowski: Hello 'Ow be you
<bigcalm> I should iron a shirt
<davmor2> bigcalm: big red sky last night, though that seems to mean nothing nowadays
<czajkowski> davmor2: not bad now yerself?
<bigcalm> davmor2: I'm no shepherd
<davmor2> bigcalm: You must be I'm sure I heard you say get the flock out of here several times ;)
<davmor2> czajkowski: not too bad
 * bigcalm tuts
<davmor2> bigcalm: well you're a shepherd or a seamstress and you said frock I could be wrong though
<AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1824/detail/
<bigcalm> Ooo
<BigRedS> Oooh
 * BigRedS warns the chickens
<bigcalm> I shall tease Hayley with it, but our fun budget is rather stretched at the moment with RAT and oggcamp
<czajkowski> hide the iron
<bigcalm> :D
<bigcalm> Maybe we should move to the south and be closer to all the fun and excitement
<ahayzen> czajkowski: Don't let popey near the iron and trampoline again
<bigcalm> But it was fun
<ahayzen> :)
<AlanBell> that video got some tips from a "Pro" extreme ironer
<ahayzen> the iron to board ratio was quite poor lol
<AlanBell> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5smhy9OB-CM
<bigcalm> Staple Fabian?
<davmor2> popey: that pink hat is most becoming
<diplo> Should all email modules be in ubuntu for Python as default
<diplo> Just teaching myself some python and importing email/smtplib comes with different errors on most basic email script
<diplo> Bah, found it...
<davmor2> diplo: I know there is a python-mailer iirc the name that make sending mail easy but I though it was mostly in the core modules
<diplo> yeah it is
<diplo> New to python, don't know names etc.. import smtplib imports email
<diplo> And my filename was email.py
<diplo> So it broke it
<diplo> :(
<davmor2> haha
<diplo> I wasn't feeling very good at naming things this morning I guess :(
<davmor2> diplo: I always add test_ to the front of any script I'm playing with and then name it the thing it does afterwards
<diplo> testmail.py now :)
<diplo> I normally name mine quite well, kids up last night and then still got up at an ungodly hour this morning
<diplo> Brain takes till early afternoon to kick in
<davmor2> diplo: so sending_emails.py, reading_emails.py for example
<BigRedS> davmor2: version control! :)
<diplo> yeah I'd say most of mine are as well
<BigRedS> I have git repos all over my filesystems...
<diplo> socket.error: [Errno 111] Connection refused
<diplo> lol
<davmor2> BigRedS: shockingly I use bzr
<diplo> I swear I shouldn't be doing this today
<diplo> Might give up and come back to it
<davmor2> AlanBell: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151046562652619&amp;set=a.493702077618.299966.645502618&amp;type=1 this just had me in stitches and seeing you're BBQ post at the same time I thought you might want to have a look too :D
<BigRedS> davmor2: ah, yeah, I just meant any sort of version control, though. I try to not get into those sorts of arguments :)
<AlanBell> davmor2: I can't see that
<davmor2> AlanBell: hang on
<davmor2> AlanBell: http://ubuntuone.com/6gt0itZ5myMlzyHSZvQPwD
<AlanBell> yeah, thats about right :)
<diplo> Was BBQ weather yesterday!
<diplo> Well apart from the odd few spots of rain :D
<AlanBell> how do I get people to take any notice of bugs I file and attach patches to?
<AlanBell> bug 930783 for example
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 930783 in compiz-plugins-main (Ubuntu) "mouse poll is jerky at the default setting of 40ms" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/930783
<gord> AlanBell, don't attach patches, create merge requests
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Won't 1ms polling loops hog the battery though?
<MartijnVdS> </n00b>
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: apparently not
<gord> 1ms doesn't make any sense, it should be 1000/refreshrate
<AlanBell> well I don't really know, the compiz people told me there was no performance hit
<AlanBell> gord: I originally suggested 15ms as that is just below 1000/60 but the compiz people said it wouldn't actually poll more than once per frame loop anyhow
<AlanBell> anyhow 40ms is horrid, less than 15 is smooth as a cashmere codpiece
<ali1234> heh, bzr fails at handling patches
<ali1234> honestly, expecting someone to jump through the hoops of setting up a full launchpad account and bzr for a one line patch really takes the cake
<BigRedS> surely there's some fancy-pants web-ui for it on launchpad?
<ali1234> there is, after you have set it all up
<BigRedS> oh
<BigRedS> it's not that hard to set up an account, though?
<ali1234> basically what happens is
<BigRedS> I did it ages ago, seemed no worse than any other bugtracker
<AlanBell> well I am fine with it being in bzr
<gord> using a merge request just gets more visibility
<ali1234> alanbell would have to sign up for launchpad, then register his machine with launchad access, upload a ssh key, create a fork of compiz
<AlanBell> creating the patch was lots harder than doing a bzr thing
<gord> bugs are not a good method of submitting code.
<ali1234> then apply this patch to his fork: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/92637773/smoother-mouse.patch
<ali1234> notice it only changes two characters
<ali1234> then he can bzr push his change to his private compiz repo
<ali1234> then he goes to lanchpad website and makes a pull request, filling in all the same information he already wrote in a bug report
<ali1234> then finally gord (or whoever) sees that and just clicks merge
<ali1234> alternatively that person could just change those two characters themselves
<BigRedS> yeah, that's not what I meant by 'fancy-pants web-ui' :)
<ali1234> the merge request is all handled by the web ui on launchpad
<ali1234> basically gord is telling alanbell to do a tonne of extra work so that the maintainers only need to click a button on a web ui rather than actually edit the two characters themselves
<BigRedS> I meant more a form where you upload a patch and fill in a form saying what and why
<gord> no, i'm saying doing a merge request is more visible
<ali1234> yeah that exists
<BigRedS> 'cause most of those steps are the sort of tedium computers are supposed to do
<ali1234> BigRedS: but you can't just upload a patch, you have to upload an entire bzr fork of the code
<gord> you can upload a patch
<gord> no one is saying you can't upload a patch
<AlanBell> https://code.launchpad.net/~alanbell/ubuntu/quantal/compiz-plugins-main/fix930783/+merge/110785
<ali1234> BigRedS: see that URL ^
<ali1234> it has a "proposed branch"
<AlanBell> the merge request thing does require you to know which branch to branch from and put back to, which I *think* is the quantal one
<gord> AlanBell, wrong branch, you are proposing against the ubuntu packaging branch
<AlanBell> woot
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> this totally isn't a load of pointless extra work
<AlanBell> so what should I do?
<AlanBell> the precise branch?
<ali1234> send the patch to the person who actually knows which branch it is supposed to go on
<ali1234> oh wait you already did that
<ali1234> it's almost as if you *don't want* people to fix things
<gord> ali1234, lp:compiz
<gord> AlanBell,
<AlanBell> huh
<AlanBell> why not lp:compiz-plugins-main ?
<gord> there was some work a few weeks back to merge all the different compiz branches
<TheFred> hello
<ali1234> so is compiz 0.9 now officially only maintained on launchpad?
<AlanBell> https://code.launchpad.net/~alanbell/compiz/fix30783/+merge/110791
<popey> ali1234: i dont think anyone other than us is working on compiz
<ali1234> that's not true, i got a patch in to compiz stable the other day
<popey> i mean, the 0.9 series
<ali1234> um well nobody else is working on that because... nobody else is using it
<ali1234> however that's not the point
 * SuperMatt nods at this
<ali1234> 0.9 is officially hosted on compiz.org git
<SuperMatt> I wouldn't be surprised if compiz is gone by the next lts
<ali1234> the work done in launchpad is supposed to be mirrored there according to the project updates
<oimon> SuperMatt, replaced by what?
<SuperMatt> well, why is compiz actually required? can't most of the features be coded into unity?
<ali1234> let me put it another way: has canonical forked compiz and not bothered to rename it?
<popey> no, we're using 0.9
<oimon> i thought compiz was actually re-written from scratch, so not even a fork :P
<SuperMatt> I mean, the most I use it for is a hotspot for scale, but gnome shell has that, I don't see why unity can't follow
<popey> it was ported to c++ in 0.9
<oimon> i'm using xcompmgr atm.
<oimon> haven't experienced the lockups or crashes that i had under compiz
<AlanBell> so with that compiz thing, I did a merge request for lp:compiz, that isn't the thing that is in Ubuntu, it isn't the upstream, it isn't Debian. Why did I do it there?
<popey> it effectively is the upstream
<AlanBell> so a merge will sync back to http://gitweb.compiz.org/?p=compiz/plugins-main;a=summary ?
<ali1234> "maybe"
<ali1234> see eg http://lists.compiz.org/pipermail/dev/2012-January/001536.html
<ali1234> http://lists.compiz.org/pipermail/dev/2012-January/001537.html
<ali1234> AlanBell: hence my question about forking
<ali1234> only canonical works on 0.9. but all the upstream compiz developers are still working on 0.8 because it's much better
<ali1234> now there is supposed to be regular pushes of 0.9 to compiz.org but a) that seems to have stopped happening and b) since it's a total rewrite it's a totally different repo anyway
<ali1234> so we have two totally different code bases in totally different revision control systems on different websites, worked on by a totally different set of people
<ali1234> and the only thing the two projects has in common is they both have the same name
<ali1234> which means 0.9 is now effectively a fork
<AlanBell> nice
<AlanBell> what does debian use?
<ali1234> of course it doesn't matter because SuperMatt is right. compiz is dead because of wayland
<ali1234> debian uses like 0.4 or something
<brobostigon> !info compiz unstable
<lubotu3> compiz (source: compiz): OpenGL window and compositing manager. In component main, is optional. Version 0.8.4-5.1 (unstable), package size 29 kB, installed size 55 kB
<ali1234> there you go. 0.8
<ali1234> distrowatch can tell you what compiz every distro uses on one handy page...
 * AlanBell observes other people doing merge requests to packaging branches https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+source/compiz-plugins-main
<ali1234> how can you even tell?
<AlanBell> I do see your points about launchpad being confusing compared to github
<AlanBell> well maybe they were intentionally done against those branches
<ali1234> i don't really see any problems with launchpad, i mean having loads of branches is always going to get confusing
<AlanBell> it is confusing having multiple places to file bugs and submit patches and merge requests
<AlanBell> with nobody looking at it when you get the wrong one
<ali1234> yeah that is poor
<ali1234> but you know the reason nobody is looking at bugs is because everyone files bugs and nobody files merge requests
<ali1234> if it were the other way around, you'd have to file a bug to get noticed
<ali1234> of course nobody files merge requests because it has a significantly higher barrier to entry - namely the need to use bzr and ssh keys
<popey> AlanBell: where is your change? and what is it?
<ali1234> "it's on launchpad"
<popey> (my team work on compiz)
<AlanBell> https://code.launchpad.net/~alanbell/compiz/fix30783/+merge/110791
<AlanBell> and a patch on the related bug
<AlanBell> and I did some patches on other bugs relating to compiz
<AlanBell> bug
<AlanBell> Low
<AlanBell> Triaged
<popey> feel free to throw them my way
<AlanBell> bug #930786
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 930786 in compiz-plugins-extra (Ubuntu) "show mouse could use Ubuntu orange colour" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/930786
<AlanBell> I will do more now I know about lp:compiz
 * lazarus_ wants toget rid of xbox
<dogmatic69> how can I see what the launcher icon is running?
<popey>  /usr/share/applications/*.desktop
<popey> look in that
<dogmatic69> popey: thanks, that is it
<diplo> http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Main/Player.aspx?meetingId=10923
<diplo> Blimey : Linux users: please see the help pages for installer links.
<diplo> :)
<diplo> At least they notice now
<diplo> But using Silverlight sucks :)
<Flashtek> life ?
<edd_> irc.semantico.net
<dogmatic69> I have a server that has ~/ encrypted
<dogmatic69> for the last few days while I am logged in it unmounts
<dogmatic69> how is this possible / what is happening
<dogmatic69> look at the strange things it is doing http://bin.cakephp.org/view/1914950397
<diplo> I know nowt about Encryption, It's why I steer clear at the moment
<diplo> But something does look kinda odd, checked through any lofs to see if any errors are in any of them ?
<AlanBell> anyone got an opinion on trac vs redmine?
<diplo> I've not used either, but when i was looking I'm sure i preffered Redmine.. but can't remember reasons
<diplo> So really I should have just not responded :D
<christel> AlanBell: what's the ubuntu uk bbq date
<AlanBell> 28th July
<christel> also did you see that the SLUG BBQ coincides with the RAT date? (but finishes at 5 so before RAT departure)
<AlanBell> I didn't, where are they doing that?
<AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1824/detail/
<christel> at that johnw guys house
<BigRedS> Redmine's RoR isn't it?
<AlanBell> I believe it is, but I don't need to care about that as it is in the repos
<diplo> yeah i think it is BigRedS
<diplo> Sure someone in here recommended it to me
<diplo> AlanBell: Did you decide on Nagios / Icinga etc ?
<christel> also, are you coming along to the HSS pub-meet thingie tomorrow?
<AlanBell> diplo: using nagios
<AlanBell> christel: probably
<diplo> heh, 'just works' for me pretty much did it
<diplo> But may try Icinga sometime soon, guys are really helpful/active in irc channel
<AlanBell> I am a bit stuck with installing nagios-nrpe-server on a few centos machines
<AlanBell> centos doesn't seem to package anything useful
<BigRedS> no, you generally need to use external rpm sources
<BigRedS> I can't remember the big one. rpmfind?
<christel> cool
<BigRedS> 'cause anything in the centos repos is from the RH ones, which is what RH provide commercial support for
<BigRedS> (is the reason normally offered)
<AlanBell> yeah, something like that BigRedS, it seems very limited in terms of the core repos
<BigRedS> yeah, it's another thing that annoys me about RH-flavoured servers
<AlanBell> so you end up adding repos that are not in any way trusted and are just installing random code on your servers :(
<AlanBell> me czajkowski and christel coming to the BBQ so far
<czajkowski> I am going to a BBQ even if it's raining
<mattt> BBQ!@
<christel> \o/
<mgdm> OMGBBQFTW
 * mattt puts a burger roll on his head and yells BEEBEEQUEEEE
<ahayzen> Hi, I was wondering if there are any requirements for an application before it can become default in Ubuntu...for example does it have to use GConf/GSettings, be accessible, translatable etc...if there are requirements, is there documentation or a wiki that i can refer to? Many thanks, Andy
<AlanBell> ahayzen: oh wouldn't it be nice if things had to be accessible to be in Ubuntu :)
<ahayzen> :)
<AlanBell> ahayzen: basically the decision gets made at the Ubuntu Developer Summit and on various mailing lists
<AlanBell> there is a default applications session
<diplo> AlanBell: CentOS recommends you use djweers repos
<diplo> I've been using them for years
<AlanBell> who is djweers?
 * mgdm uses EPEL
<diplo> heh AlanBell wrong name
<mgdm> Oh, dag.wieers.com
<mgdm> aka repoforge
<mgdm> his packages have some very odd dependencies
<ahayzen> AlanBell: so even if an application wasn't using GConf, accessible, translatable ...but was deemed 'better' it could then be set as default?
<diplo> http://dag.wieers.com/rpm/
<gord> ahayzen, does need to be translatable
<AlanBell> ahayzen: it could indeed
<diplo> yeah, they have all combined now
<ahayzen> interesting
<AlanBell> of course that might not help it to be deemed "better"
<ahayzen> wasn't Canonical trying to employ someone to create a HIG last year?
<ahayzen> Ok... one more question... what things do i, as a Python Gtk developer, have to do to make my application accessible? ... I mean where does Orca etc actually get its information from?
<AlanBell> generally GTK applications should work pretty well by default as long as you don't abuse widgets to do unnatural things
<AlanBell> in glade you can set accessible strings and hints on bits of user interface if needed
<ahayzen> AlanBell: Ok that makes sense.... thanks for your help :)
<gord> ahayzen, you need to use python gettext to create translatable strings, its unlikely that all your strings will be in glade files http://docs.python.org/library/gettext.html#gnu-gettext-api
<ahayzen> gord: Thanks
<ahayzen> gord: Should any extra accessibility strings also be translated? I guess yes?
<gord> ahayzen, define extra
<ahayzen> eg Hints
<ahayzen> that you can define inside GLADE
<gord> if you define them inside glade i *think* though don't quote me on it, they will be translatable
<ahayzen> gord: i will probably be manually coding it... but i use glade for designing.... it for example the option 'Accessible Name'... this would also have to be translatable correct?
<gord> ahayzen, if its a user facing text string, it should be translatable
<ahayzen> gord: Ok thanks :)
<kvarley> Which renaming tool can I use to do the following: I want to strip a substring from a filename. I.e. filename.hello.jpg -> filename.jpg
<mgdm>  /usr/bin/rename
<mgdm> kvarley: if you speak regex, that'll do it
<kvarley> mgdm: Some things are too easy =]
<kvarley> Thanks
<jacobw> ok, stupid question time
 * AlanBell lines up a stupid answer
 * popey lines up an incredible answer
<jacobw> i have 4 disks that used to be in raid10, i want to identify two stripes and access them from a machine with 2 drives
<daubers> jacobw: mdadm?
<jacobw> well, i want to boot the machine with 2 drives as if it was the machine the raid10 came from
<daubers> jacobw: was it an mdadm raid?
<daubers> (i.e. was it software raid or HW raid?)
<jacobw> mdadm
<daubers> You should be able to just shove in 2 drives in each machine and run it as a degraded raidset
<daubers> (as long as grub was installed correctly on the various disks)
<jacobw> i don't which disk was what in the historical raid
<daubers> jacobw: Doesn't matter
<daubers> they where mirrored
<daubers> (the raid 1 bit)
<daubers> so it'll start as a degraded raid 10
<daubers> (theoretically anyway, try it one way, then change a disk and try again!)
<daubers> it won't damage the raid if it can't assemble it
<daubers> or assemble one half of the raid 10 anyway
<jacobw> so i think that i need both stripes, from either mirror
<daubers> yes. But you can do that with trial and error quite quickly, mdadm --detail might give you more info
<jacobw> i guess i could just install the disks and try to boot until i hit that combination
<daubers> but I've done it in the past using trial and error, with a 4 drive RAID10 you will only need to make one chang
<daubers> e
<daubers> (at worst)
<jacobw> i understand how i can do this now
<jacobw> but i don't understand 1 change at worst
<daubers> you have 4 disks, that are 2 sets of two (a1 a2 b1 b2) a1 is a mirror of b1 a2 is a mirror of b2, so you need to make either a1 a2 or a1 b2 or b1 b2
<jacobw> oh, AA, AB, BA, BB change AA || BB to AB || BA and retest
<jacobw> yeah, i see now :)
<jacobw> math fail
<daubers> :)
<ali1234> how do you know you dont have a1 and b1 or a2 and b2
<daubers> ali1234: It won't boot
<daubers> or won't start the raid
<ali1234> so basically you try it, if it doesn't work you reverse them, and if it still doesn't work you give up?
<daubers> ali1234: I'd be surprised if it still doesn't work
<daubers> If thats the case then your metadata is out of sync.... which bad
<daubers> s/bad/is bad
<ali1234> why? if you pick 2 disk at random you have 33% chance of getting 2 copies of the dame data
<jacobw> yes, without the give up part, there's two cases where it doesn't work and two where it does, the latter two cases can be made in to the one of the former two cases with a single change
<daubers> which won't start, so you change one disk in the pair you picked and you should have both parts of the stripe
<ali1234> o i see
<ali1234> but then you still need to figure out which one is 1 and 2
<daubers> mdadm is clever enough to deal with that itself
<daubers> (it's in the metadata)
<daubers> mdadm --assemble --scan <- normally does the trick
<jacobw> i'm going to boot it with a live image to scan until i know what i'm looking at
<daubers> jacobw: Sounds like a safe idea :)
 * Azelphur is buying this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227706
<MartijnVdS> OCZ?
<Azelphur> yup
<MartijnVdS> scary
 * daubers goes home
<MartijnVdS> I heard those fail the most
<Azelphur> I compared the reviews to the corsair and they have much the same issues
<MartijnVdS> I love my Intels
<Azelphur> yea but the intels arn't very fast
<MartijnVdS> fast enough for me
<Azelphur> afaik the intels are like 160MB/sec or something
<Azelphur> that OCZ is 500MB/sec
<AlanBell> if your controller can handle it
<MartijnVdS> Sustained Sequential Read: 500 MB/s
<MartijnVdS> Sustained Sequential Write: 450 MB/s
<MartijnVdS> Random 4 KB Reads: 22,500 IOPS
<MartijnVdS> Random 4 KB Writes: 33,000 IOPS
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: on an intel? nice
<kvarley> Azelphur: I hear the Intels are more reliable, but there are slower and more expensive. The OCZ gets the best overall review in terms of price and performance. It may fail, but you'll get a warranty. AFAIK they aren't that terrible with fails, there are higher failure rate ones out there.
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: intel 330
<Azelphur> kvarley: fair enough :)
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: but hard disk! data! scary if it breaks
<kvarley> Azelphur: Only other hyped brand out there is the Crucial m4 - that seemed to get a lot of attention.
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: SSD  should be for your OS only and backed up onto a HDD IMO =]
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: I only keep / on the ssd, if it fails it's meh
<Azelphur> I accidentally wiped my SSD the other day, the pain of having to reconfigure rsnapshot was about all that annoyed me
<AlanBell> directhex: what happened to the kittyview patch?
<directhex> don't remember.
<directhex> Unity3D 4: with Linux support
<directhex> the single most popular mobile game engine will have a button to ship a version for Linux. this is huge!
<directhex> "The most requested feature from our community has arrived! Port your standalone desktop indie game to Linux with Unity 4. Linux games are thriving even though the platform is comparatively underserved. The success of distribution initiatives, such as the Humble Indie Bundle and the Ubuntu Software Center, prove that Linux users are happy to pay for games. Linux standalone publishing will be available for all Unity Desktop users at no addi
<directhex> tional cost. Take your game to Linux, and an audience eager for high-quality entertainment."
<AlanBell> that sounds quite good
<ali1234> isn't the most popular mobile game engine "whatever was used to make angry birds"
<ali1234> wikpedia says that is SDL and box2d
<davmor2> ali1234: Stop already, It is a AAA game engine rather than a port of individual game we could look at loads of games being port across with a minimum fuss to the developers
<mgdm> :D
<mgdm> errr
<AlanBell> ali1234: angry birds was made with the same thing that the flame malware was used as some incompetent journalist pointed out
<AlanBell> http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/05/30/powerful-flame-cyberweapon-tied-to-powerfully-angry-birds/
<AlanBell> quality reporting from Fox news
<Azelphur> hehe I linked that in here the other day
<davmor2> AlanBell: did you just use the words Quality and Fox in the same sentence and miss the <sarcasm></sarcasm>! Shame on you, go on hang your head in shame
<AlanBell> I figured anything containing the words "fox news" would automatically be considered a joke
<davmor2> AlanBell: Shame on you, you know there are new people to the channel they might think you were serious, typing from the floor isn't fun I'm gonna stop laughin' now and sit in my chair ;)
<diplo> evening all
<mattt> yo diplo
<kane1309> hello people
<kane1309> who can help me
<AlanBell> kane1309: hello
<kane1309> do u no how to install minecraft ?
<AlanBell> you don't need to install it
<AlanBell> just run java -jar minecraft.jar
<mattt> bonus
<kane1309> ok ty
<kane1309> it wont let me
<kane1309> it said The file '/home/kanes/Downloads/minecraft.jar' is not marked as executable.  If this was downloaded or copied from an untrusted source, it may be dangerous to run.  For more details, read about the executable bit.
<AlanBell> so launch a terminal
<AlanBell> then "cd Downloads"
<kane1309> what do i type in the terminal
<RaycisCharles> AlanBell, I trust you're watching the Euros?
<mattt> RaycisCharles: who's playing now ?
<AlanBell> kane1309: one sec, I am surprised by that message
<kane1309> ok
<kane1309> :s
<mattt> kane1309: how did you try running it?  "java -jar minecraft.jar"?
<RaycisCharles> mattt: Crotatia vs Spain now, Italy vs ROI later.
<mattt> CROTATIA!
<kane1309> right clicked minecraft.jar and clicked java running time6
<AlanBell> kane1309: so type "cd Downloads" then on the next line "java -jar minecraft.jar"
<kane1309> ok
<AlanBell> that should not give you that error message and should open a window asking for username and password
<DJones> I can confirm that "java -jar minecraft.jar" works for me
<kane1309> worked fine thanks guys
<kane1309> do i have to do that every time ?
<DJones> kane1309: I normally just right click on the file and select open with sun java 6 runtime or Open JDK Java 6 runtime
<kane1309> ok
<kane1309> is there a way to see my ram and cpu usage ?
<brobostigon> top is maybe the simplest.
<kane1309> what
<brobostigon> or htop
<brobostigon> kane1309: open up a terminal. :)
<kane1309> ok now what ?
<DJones> You can also click the icon in the top left and start typing sysinfo that will bring up a gui app that gives memory info etc
<brobostigon> top or htop
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] What are the chances of that? - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2012/06/18/what-are-the-chances-of-that/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=what-are-the-chances-of-that
<directhex> ali1234, [cite]: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/169846/Mobile_game_developer_survey_leans_heavily_toward_iOS_Unity.php
<kane1309> whats some good stuff to do on ubuntu
<directhex> kane1309, the same stuff you'd do on another OS, i.e. look at pictures of naked people on the internet
<danawar2> Hey ubuntu UK if i am sharing internet through this computer and want pepeople to login before using the internet how would i go about doing that?
<Azelphur> danawar2: is "this computer" a dedicated router, or are you using it as a computer too?
<directhex> danawar2, what did you have in mind? a shared password, per-account WPA passwords (may not be supported on many devices), or an unencrypted connection with a captive portal?
<directhex> (i.e. like they have at coffee shops)
<kane1309> whats some good stuff to do on ubuntu
<danawar2> I use it as a computer
<kane1309> ops wrong button
<kane1309> i ment lol
<Azelphur> that makes it a world more difficult :p
<daubers> directhex: pictures? That's so 1990
<daubers> 's
<kane1309> lol
<danawar2> I just want to return a page instead of port 80 traffic
<danawar2> And nice to see you again Azelphur you got a job yet? :D
<directhex> danawar2, okay, captive portal then
<Azelphur> nope :)
<danawar2> Captive portal sounds like the ideal solution! :D
<danawar2> Just fixing my computer after unity broke every thing lol
<directhex> danawar2, doing it on the same system you use as your regular computer looks hellish though
<Azelphur> ^ my thoughts exactly
<jacobw> danawar2: what kind of NICs do have?
<Azelphur> if you want fancy stuff like captive portals, it's pretty much time to go the way of a dedicated route
<danawar2> Internet is shared on the lan i get internet over wirless
<jacobw> where's your default route to?
<danawar2> Dont know what you mean by default route
<Azelphur> lol, virgin media are using success kid for advertising. http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/421457_3239518704428_1160606287_33453700_464762643_n.jpg
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: OAG made a new video
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: speaking of memes :)
<Azelphur> OAG?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xujhimh5eWs --  you'll recognise her
<Azelphur> oh noes, overly attached girlfriend
 * Azelphur runs
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: the song she sings today is pretty stalkery
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> creepy song is creepy
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: We live in a time of great memes ;)
<Azelphur> indeed
<MartijnVdS> heh: http://i.imgur.com/stlNf.png
<Azelphur> hehe
<danawar2> http://77.100.69.178/pics/creepy
<danawar2> i paused it and got that O.o
<MartijnVdS> danawar2: that's nothing :)
<MartijnVdS> danawar2: check out the gallery here: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/overly-attached-girlfriend
<MartijnVdS> (some might not be suitable for family viewing, etc.)
<danawar2> hehe
<kane1309> how do u guys remember what to type in the terminal
<mgdm> I think it has a large amount to do with being not quite normal :P
<kane1309> ?
<mgdm> (more seriously - I do most of my work in terminals, you get to remember things you do a lot)
<kane1309> ohh
<kane1309> whats some good things to do in ubuntu
<jacobw> kane1309: vim coolnewapp.py
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: the OS comes "batteries included", you mean?
<kane1309> jacobw do i put that in terminal
<MartijnVdS> kane1309: that's "vim" (an editor) with one argument (a file: coolnewapp.py -- that probably doesn't exist yet)
<MartijnVdS> kane1309: but yes, it's one thing you'd type into a termianl
<kane1309> oh
<jacobw> kane1309: vim is just a command line text editor, you can also use gedit or something similar
<MartijnVdS> it's all "verb noun noun noun" :)
<jacobw> kane1309: .py is the file extension typically associated with python
<MartijnVdS> (ls -l = l;ist files, long mode)
<MartijnVdS> ("man ls" for possible options and their meanings; man = manual)
<jacobw> kane1309: python the language most assoicated with ubuntu
<MartijnVdS> "man man" for a manual on the manual
<jacobw> `woman man` for a man on the man without out man :P
<MartijnVdS> à² _à²  @ jacobw
<kane1309> i have a old pc i found in my loft and it had no os system on it so i put ubuntu on it how do i found out if its any good or if its shit
<jacobw> i think i scared off davmor2 :o
<jacobw> kane1309: linux is just fun, if you like to learn how things work and make new things
<kane1309> what u mean jaco
<jacobw> kane1309: if you want to learn about programming or networking, then linux is the OS for most hardware
<davmor2> Final super hub has arrived and my network is so blisteringly fast it must be going at the speed it was :( grumble grumble shuggin fashin shuggin fashin virgin :D
<andylockran> hey guys - where' sthe best places to edit the network connections in ubuntu 12.04
<andylockran> I used to use /etc/network/interfaces - but seems like NetworkManager is the best place to do it?
<daubers> andylockran: Desktop?
<davmor2> andylockran: on what desktop or server
<andylockran> davmor2: I've installed Desktop
<davmor2> andylockran: network manager anywhere else and you break the system
<andylockran> davmor2: ok, is there a network manager on server?
<davmor2> andylockran: nope on server it is manual or auto
<daubers> andylockran: server is still in interfaces
<andylockran> that's a bit frustrating.. can I remove network manager from desktop?
<davmor2>  andylockran why?   you can do all the same setting in network-manager
<daubers> andylockran: http://superuser.com/questions/9720/disabling-networkmanager-for-a-specific-interface
<bigcalm> Evenin' all
<davmor2> hey bigcalm my superhub finally made it 5 days late
<daubers> andylockran: If you set it as static from the interfaces file nm should ignore it
<popey> pip pip bigcalm
<andylockran> davmor2: writing configuration that I expect to be used on a server installation
<bigcalm> davmor2: Heh, VM as reliable as ever
<bigcalm> davmor2: now set it to be in modem only mode and use your own wifi router
<bigcalm> Hola popey!
<davmor2> bigcalm: not vm's fault it was stuck at the depot
<bigcalm> Where's the fun in not blaming VM?
<davmor2> andylockran: so you can do that it's just the desktop won't work as expected cause most things work from dbus that they in turn get from NM
<daubers> andylockran: If you're just testing, stop network-manager
<davmor2> daubers: you don't need to once you add an interface nm stops functioning anyway
<andylockran> ok, kewl
<andylockran> thanks
<bigcalm> popey: what's new?
<davmor2> bigcalm: my shiny shiny superhub
<popey> stuff and ting
<bigcalm> davmor2: happy with 60mb now?
<bigcalm> popey: ya mon
<davmor2> popey: you thinkz thatz realz streetz talkz mon youz needz toz addz zzzzzzzzzz toz stuffz 'n' tingz man
 * popey wonders when his connection will be upgraded
<davmor2> bigcalm: I'd be happy if it was it seems to be the same speed :D
<bigcalm> popey: http://doublespeed.virginmedia.com/
<popey> october 2012 to july 2013!
<bigcalm> popey: same as me :(
<bigcalm> That's quite a window
<czajkowski> popey: you still have *that* shirt!
<popey> czajkowski: hmm?
<popey> of course!
<czajkowski> lol
<czajkowski> :)
<gord> really need to upgrade my broadband... 2mbit is starting to annoy me, but hard to get somewhere else that doesn't have dumb limits
<Monotoko> anyone here dealt with Squid before? The official room seems dead
<czajkowski> Monotoko: late at night
 * AlanBell books flights to ireland
<diplo> Monotoko: What do you want to know, set up a few squid boxes for work
<diplo> but not touched it in a few years
<Monotoko> diplo, it's alright I got it ^_^ I wasn't aware you had to add the incoming IP as well /facepalm
<Aud1o> This is completely fucking retarded.
<Aud1o> (grinding noises.)
<AlanBell> well I am off to bed in a sec, but we can't have that kind of language in here and I am not up for discussing it right now
<AlanBell> night all
<dogmatic69> lol
<dogmatic69> gn AlanBell
<dogmatic69> cleaning up before heading off
<AlanBell> yeah
<dogmatic69> :)
<ali1234> harsh
<ali1234> lol
<Azelphur> ali1234: happen to know if physically blocking the fan blades on a card could do any damage to the card, ignoring overheating?
<Azelphur> and ignoring the fan breaking, since it's already broke
<ali1234> i dunno
<ali1234> why would you want to do that?
<Azelphur> ali1234: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/November%202011/IMG_20111108_160010.jpg
<Azelphur> stock fan broke :<
<Azelphur> it tries to spin up occasionally, makes loud buzzy noises, then stops
<ali1234> putting another fan in front of it like that won't do much
<Azelphur> yea, but the inside fan is blocked from spinning too
<ali1234> fix it properly
<Azelphur> how so?
<dogmatic69> I am having some issues with php-fpm. tried using nginx and cherokee now and the problem remains. every few minutes the server will die and after a while comes back up
<ali1234> get an after market cooler
<Azelphur> I suppose I can perform some open heart surgery on it xD
<dogmatic69> I cant find anything in the logs and started with php-fpm in debug and seems normal (no errors)
<dogmatic69> anything I can look for?
#ubuntu-uk 2012-06-19
<mattt> morning
<daubers> morning
<AlanBell> morning all
<DJones> Morning
<MooDoo> morning all
<czajkowski> morning
<Flashtek> merning
<dwatkins> hiya
<popey> morning
 * directhex reaches inescapable conclusion: Qt is bloated
<diplo> Morning
<popey> http://www.ubuntuvibes.com/2012/06/finally-unity-3d-game-engine-adds-linux.html golly
<popey> thats good isnt it?
<BigRedS> I was very confused at all these "unity support for linux" headlines I was seeing
<directhex> popey, depends.
<directhex> popey, it's good if you want more games on linux. it's bad if you hate mono
<gord> i didn't think unity used mono
<directhex> the unity3d game engine is all mono. that's what makes it funny that microsoft used unity3d to make ipad games
<gord> ha, neat. mono is cool
<directhex> and i'm just waiting on a review to upload monogame (bastion's engine) to debian
<gord> though i get the feeling most people building the games for linux will just build once before releasing in the humle bumble and it will be a buggy mess
<BigRedS> yeah, I'm generally wary of anything cross-platform until the developer is, too
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<AlanBell> morning bigcalm
<oimon> anyone know how to create separate rsyslog logs based upon source host when colecting logs centrally?
<bigcalm> AlanBell: as predicted, Hayley would love to go to the BBQ. But we both agreed that we can't justify the expense right now. She's looking forward to catching up with you guys on the RAT though :)
<AlanBell> yeah, RAT will be fun
<AlanBell> so will the BBQ http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1824/detail/
<JamesTai1> Good morning all! :)
<JamesTait> AlanBell: I think your predicition for when summer will be is off - it started yesterday and ends today. ;)
<gord> anyone here happen to be a zen customer? or have any opinions on them as an isp?
<diplo> gord: I am not a customer but we have lots of customers of ours who use them and are happy. Also a guy in the office here also uses them and says he has had good service, not heard awful things is probably where I am going with this :)
<gord> they look a bit expensive, but it looks like they don't do dumb things like traffic shape, hard to find a good fibre isp
<diplo> I think costs are probably helping them with maybe not doing shaping ?
<diplo> That's why I don't go with the cheapest for customers
<gord> maybe, though they do have limits which i don't like at all. hate that feeling
<diplo> I'm with Sky, not hit any limits yet
<dwatkins> gord: my dad's with Zen, he is quite happy with them despite only getting 6 MBit a mile from the exchange (small village)
<ikonia> Zen are golden
<gord> 6mbit on fibre?
<ikonia> I get 70MB
<dwatkins> I'm with BeThere - no limits, and consistently fast unencumbered internets
<dwatkins> gord: no, copper
<ikonia> well 69.8
<gord> i'm on Be, but they started blocking websites and don't have a fibre plan at all, so shopping about
<dwatkins> I was tempted to choose BT's fibre-to-the-cabinett 'infinity' offering, but by then I was fed up with their idiocy.
<gord> zen basically resell that
<gord> so its bt infinity, without the idiocy
<ikonia> Zen will do that for you with zero idiocy
<dwatkins> I suspect my dad's village doesn't have that quite yet, though.
<ikonia> I can't speak well enough about Zen
<dwatkins> Line enabled for Fibre Broadband:	No
<gord> ikonia, have to use their router?
<dwatkins> sadly the equivalent tool on BeThere's website is still down
<bigcalm> Is there a site one can use to see if fibre is coming to one's area?
<bigcalm> We're in a VM cabled area, so think it unlikely
<dwatkins> bigcalm: this might be useful: http://www.zen.co.uk/business/broadband/fibre-broadband/bt-exchanges-scheduled-to-be-fttc-enabled.aspx
<AlanBell> BT infinity through a reseller is the way to go, I use plus net
<bigcalm> dwatkins: ta
<bigcalm> Wow, it is coming to the local town
<dwatkins> I'm surprised my dad's exchange isn't on there
<diplo> bigcalm: I'm in cabled area and we already have Infinity
<AlanBell> openreach are putting posters on street cabinets when they get FTTC
<bigcalm> On google maps, our village looks to be part of the local town. So maybe we'll get it
<diplo> yeah thats what made melook AlanBell
<diplo> Noticed it on one near me
<bigcalm> If we ever lose our Mates Rates from VM, I'll be shopping around
<diplo> Yet the place I really want it ( this office ) doesnn't have it yet, but on initial release of Infinity it was supposed to be done before my estate :(
<diplo> Site doesn't work that well for checking, set to unknown at the mo
<directhex> i'm on Infinity. not via a reseller as BT are uncapped and resellers are capped.
<gord> if you are in a cable area, is infinity really that attractive?
<directhex> i'm not in a cable area, sadly
<daubers> gord: More attractive than the fail that is VM
<diplo> I was with Blueyonder then Virgin for about 12 years or so
<diplo> Service went downhill over the last 2 years or so
<DJones> Argh, why do I spend 30 minutes checking the broadband connection, restarting the router, making sure the servers are powered up and running, only to find that the reason we've lost all internet & server access is beacuse somebody turned a mini switch off
<diplo> Any sort of torrents and the line would come to a halt
<diplo> DJones: Nagios or something to monitor switches / routers
<diplo> :)
<DJones> diplo: What have can you suggest that monitors people moving their bin/handbag to knock the power switch though? 6 inch nails to nail their hands to teh desk
<bigcalm> Sounds reasonable
<AlanBell> DJones: gaffer tape should be sufficient
<BigRedS> put things with power switches in boxes?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<BigRedS> g'morning!
<DJones> AlanBell: But not as much fun
<brobostigon> morning BigRedS
<DJones> BigRedS: Getting a box to put something in would be harder than getting some rocking horse manure for the weeds outside the office, for a business that can't work without its computers, IT spending is none existant
<diplo> DJones: But you would have at least known it was the switch that had gone down ?
<directhex> today's blogging flamebait is gonna be fun <3
<diplo> And you can buy secure covers for power sockets, we sued them at my last place
<diplo> http://www.pluglock.co.uk/
<diplo> Cleaners used to unplug things at night, including servers at branches :)
<DJones> I would love to get things like that, I can't even get the owners to replace the server, which has failed twice in the last year, power supply died & took 4 days to get a replacement via a junk shop (Yes, the server is that old)
<DJones> 2nd time, the 40Gb drives on the server were full and need replacing or the server needs replacing, managed to free up 500Mb space so that it'd keep running for now
<diplo> heh, we have customers like that
<ikonia> gord: I use Zens' router for fiber, yes
<diplo> One where someone broke some setup on a CentOS box, GLIBC_2 errors not found etc
<diplo> That was probably a year ago, won't let us reinstall.. we just fix things as they break
<DJones> Our IT support firm told the directors 2 years ago that the servers were held together with stick tape & hope
<BigRedS> This opera-alike new-tab screen that just arrived in an update; is it part of the Ubuntu firefox modifications or are Mozilla drunk?
<diplo> heh, I miss those days DJones
<BigRedS> DJones: telling them never works. You need to engineer downtime
<ikonia> BigRedS: mozilla
<BigRedS> :(
<diplo> I don't have to deal with these people anymore, I just fix the stuff the other guys can't now adays
<BigRedS> it's incredibly poorly done
<DJones> BigRedS: I don't need to "engineer" downtime, it happens often enough on its own
<diplo> lol
<BigRedS> DJones: if they still don't want the fixes, clearly not enough :)
<DJones> BigRedS: They want the fixes, they just want them for free
<directhex> ikonia, you're about a lot today. things calmer at work?
<DJones> My attitude now is, if it doesn't affect me, I leave it, if I did anything, nothing would happen anyway.  I back my stuff up locally so & can keep working, I leave the rest to the people who don't know enough about it, but know enough that they won't pay for fixes
<BigRedS> ah yeah, I was broadly in that position by the time they made me redundant. I went through a long phase of working quite hard to make it obvious that we needed upgrades or changes in policy and much of it did work, but it was _so_ much extra work, and on top of the work I was supposed to be doing
<diplo> DJones: I moved to pretty much the same mindset before I left the last company... they stopped paying for stuff, they stopped paying ANY overtime etc so I just looked after myself after that
<BigRedS> oh yeah, when I started needing to prearrange overtime I stopped doing anything unneccesary
<diplo> I think it seems we all go through the same **** but at different comapnies :)
<BigRedS> even got asked to stop fixing the mailserver 'cause it was 5pm once.
<diplo> Well the company that has taken over the place I worked at refuses to let me colleague fix stuff out of hours
<diplo> and the people who use the software/hardware during the day refuse to let him do anything during the say
<diplo> day*
<diplo> So he is now doing nothing
<diplo> :)
<DJones> At least you work in IT, its not even my job
<DJones> When you do get to fix things, you have the tools/support/advice etc you need
<diplo> I forget that people in here are not in IT Aswell :)
<diplo> What is your job DJones ? If you don't mind ?
<DJones> Accounts
<DJones> I'm the finance manager at a luxury holiday firm
<diplo> oh right, know where to get some deals now then
<diplo> Slip in some discounts as the invoices go through
<DJones> Heh
<BigRedS> ah yeah, I keep making the same mistake as diplo
<DJones> diplo: Just checked the price list, I can do Barbados (subject to availability) for about Â£45,000 per week, that does include a house manager, chef, butler, maid, laundress, boatman & a night watchman, you pay extra for food
<bigcalm> DJones: after all of the costs of employment etc, what's the margin?
<DJones> We aim to make about 15% on each booking, the villa's are owned by 3rd parties, we just act as an agent
<bigcalm> I see
<bigcalm> DJones: sounds like one of my main clients who rent out apartments in Paris
<bigcalm> And Italy and London now
<DJones> To me, what some people are prepared to pay is silly money, but I guess they've got the money and can afford it out of their loose change
<bigcalm> Yup
<bigcalm> I've set up vtiger and civicrm for my Father to play with. Still on the look out for a web app to manage club membership. Anybody got any suggestions for off the self, open source, Linux based apps?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jo Shields] Enormity - http://apebox.org/wordpress/rants/416/
<directhex> aha
<diplo> DJones: Sorry was away... I'll book 2 weeks at that price please!
<DJones> Do you have your own transport/plane/boat, or do you want flights as well :)
<diplo> heh, LearJet please
<DJones> :)
<diplo> heh directhex, still trying to get people to believe you I see :)
<diplo> I think the people that don't listen are the ones you won't change there minds with proof or not
<BigRedS> I don't remember the last time I was particularly concerned about the amount of diskspace a particular install would require
<BigRedS> partculary not when it's tens of MB
<diplo> I don't think they mean it like that, well not how i take it
<diplo> I feel it meant bloated as in deps etc to do anything
<diplo> Or it could be i got the wrong end of the stick :D
<BigRedS> yeah, that's still what I meant
<BigRedS> if AppA requires 100MB and AppB requires 6MB I'd still be more interested in how good each is than that 90MB of disk space
<diplo> Same here, but I think what I put earlier is what the others bitch about
<diplo> Pointless.. but yeah
<oimon> why do people on this youtube video have blue faces?
<oimon> hint: it's not avatar or the smurfs
<AlanBell> because you are using flash
<oimon> did they break it?
<BigRedS> flash *is* them breaking it
 * oimon has no sound too :-\
<AlanBell> yeah, they announced their final version for linux and broke it on nvidia as they did so
<oimon> since logging into lxde i think that issue was
<oimon> how long has it been broken?
<AlanBell> https://bugbase.adobe.com/index.cfm?event=bug&id=3109467
<oimon> i think i didn't notice because i was usually logged into chromium which is using html5 when i'm logged in
<AlanBell> bug 967091 has a workaround (disable accelleration)
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 967091 in adobe-flashplugin (Ubuntu) "Wrong tint in flash when it uses video acceleration" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/967091
<oimon> no sound in lubuntu ...any ideas anyone?
<oimon> all i hear is hiss
<czajkowski> #lubuntu
<oimon> alsamixer headphone setting is 00
<czajkowski> ask in #lubuntu perhaps
<oimon> it's probably related to installing lxde on top of ubuntu..i'll try them tho
<BigRedS> if you install lubuntu-desktop then it's no excuse for breaking
<oimon> i agree
<oimon> installing lubuntu-desktop =/= installing lubuntu though
<oimon> lots of quirky theme issues i woulnd't otherwise see
<popey> lubuntu doesnt use pulse i think
<popey> oimon: you seem to change desktop a lot!
<oimon> only since unity :s
<oimon> lxde +xcompmgr + docky + gnome do is good for me atm and stable
<oimon> maybe if elementary get round to releasing i'lll be happy with that.
<oimon> i was on gnome-fallback and happy but had odd issues with the systray and performance issues
 * AlanBell is using gnome-fallback at the moment
 * diplo is waiting for oimon to come together with a good solution before reinstalling
<diplo> Takes the hassle out of playing with lots of DE
<AlanBell> annoyed at how much I like it compared to unity
<diplo> 's
<oimon> :D
 * BigRedS uses Gnome3
<oimon> lxde as presented by lubuntu is very nice
<BigRedS> well, gnome-session
<diplo> AlanBell: same here, partially familiarity but for me it's more becuase it's more stable
<oimon> stock lxde is not so pretty
<oimon> i am amazed at the speed of lxde , and functionality is equal to gnome2
<BigRedS> I tried XFCE the other day, it feels _so_ dated now I'm used to gnome session and unity
<BigRedS> even the ubuntu one which is basically Gnome2 prettiness
<AlanBell> I do like lenses as a concept and I am OK with the launcher and quicklists
<AlanBell> just wish the nux stuff worked better
<dogmatic69> encrypted home was the biggest mistake ever :/
<BigRedS> I think I'd like lenses if they didn't take so long to start working
<AlanBell> having an alt-tab that does what I expect is nice
<BigRedS> and, generally, they just take a while. which is great if you're searching, but I'm normally not
<BigRedS> so I type what I want and hit enter, and it's still got the search result from the first four characters so it runs that...
<BigRedS> I've reverted to the old alt-tab, and when I use unity it's with only one workspace
<BigRedS> it seems a lot like that's what it's designed for
<AlanBell> yeah, I tend not to use additional workspaces with unity, but I did loads when I used the cube
<Myrtti> I just configure the workspaces to be side by side rather than a grid
<BigRedS> yeah, i just find that it's a lot less surprising on a single workspace
<oimon> i hear synapse uses zeitgeist too
<oimon> the moment i get a spare hour at work i'm installing lubuntu from fresh
<TheFred> hello
<MartijnVdS> I've removed zeitgeist
<MartijnVdS> too much disk i/o
<gord> MartijnVdS, is that based on any statistics?
<BigRedS> well, *any* I/O supporting something I don't use is too much :)
<gord> zeitgeist is explicitly designed to minimise disk i/o, it relies on outside sources to inform it of changes to the disk
<gord> thats the point, it doesn't. gedit says "hey Zeitgeist, i saved a file!" and Zeitgeist goes "okay, recording that!"
<BigRedS> oh, so it only gets data from things that are aware of it?
<gord> pretty much, though i don't know all the in's and outs and there are extensions that do random stuff, but that is the general idea
<BigRedS> ahh
<daubers> 3I thought zeitgeist did some inotify type magic too?
<gord> the idea is not to have to do that, because it causes wake-ups
<gord> i think we might do something like that explicitly for unity, to watch ~/Downloads or something
<daubers> Ah. I know it did at one point, because I kept running out of notify handles :) Not had that recently though
<AlanBell> UbuntuOne kills your notify handles
<daubers> Haven't noticed that too much... but don't have much in U1 anyway
<gord> surely u1 should be just putting a watch on each shared directory?
<AlanBell> yeah, I put my projects directory in U1 then did a few things like branching unity and compiz there
<AlanBell> 100% CPU for a few hours and a couple of days to sync and inotify broke
<gord> fun, filed a bug? u1 shouldn't make that many handles
<AlanBell> I now don't use U1 for that kind of area where I could suddenly create a few thousand small files
<popey> wfm â¨
<BigRedS> surely all that was under some other version control anyway?
<AlanBell> BigRedS: sure, I just pointed U1 at my projects folder because it would be nice to have it sync to other machines
<MartijnVdS> gord: it's based on my experience
<MartijnVdS> gord: system slow. Purge zeitgeist, kill zeitgeist. System fast.
<AlanBell> what php performance tweaks are good to do? I have installed php-apc, is there other magic stuff to make it fast?
<BigRedS> AlanBell: depends on the site generally. There's some tuning of APC you can do but it's rarely needed
<BigRedS> generally, the biggest problem with running PHP is the programmer
<BigRedS> most tweaks we make are to send MySQL query stats to the programmer and get them to not do such stupid things with the database
<AlanBell> yeah, I think this could use some optimisation
<AlanBell> pushing bigish data into vtiger
<bigcalm> AlanBell: my dad finally got to play with vtiger. Well, he looked at the site I set up for him. Haven't heard anything for a few days. I feel for his safety
<AlanBell> heh
<AlanBell> is memcached as exciting as it sounds?
<mgdm> it's nto exciting, but it really works
<diplo> Guys use it at my work place, not had any need to touch it myself yet
<diplo> Don't FB use it in a big way
<diplo> ?
<AlanBell> yeah, I think they wrote it
<mgdm> yeah, they have a couple of hundred terabytes of it
<mgdm> AlanBell: No, LiveJournal did
<AlanBell> oh, ok
<mgdm> APC is the obvious PHP tweak. Memcached is not something you can just drop in, unless your app is built for it
<AlanBell> BigRedS: how do you get the mysql query stats?
<bigcalm> Take cakephp 1.1 app that works on php 5.2. Upgrade to PHP 5.3 and find the cakephp 1.1 app doesn't work. Install APC. Cakephp 1.1 app works!
<bigcalm> APC is magic
<mgdm> bigcalm: that's just weird, there is no reason for that to happen
<mgdm> AlanBell: there are tools like xhprof which can show you really detailed things about the guts of your app
<bigcalm> mgdm: I agree
<mgdm> but that might be a little low level
<mgdm> New Relic is *really* nice, but $$$
<bigcalm> http://www.amazon.co.uk/-/dp/B003BIFSFK Â£47 quid to add traffic fun to my satnav. Is it worth it I wonder?
<balor> czajkowski, Are you honestly trying to convince people to move from git to bzr?
<czajkowski> balor: hello there :)
<czajkowski> balor: I dont need to convience was meerly pointing out a useful document
 * AlanBell wonders if launchpad will support git code hosting at some point
<balor> czajkowski, ah.  I have used bazaar since before its tla days, and even I've switched to git.
<AlanBell> to be honest what I want it to do is render documentation like github does with the README.md stuff
<czajkowski> balor: yes but you're not normal now are you :)
<balor> czajkowski, probably not.  I prefer darcs to either bzr or git.  But the rest of the world uses git, so I have to conform.
<czajkowski> hah you conform
<czajkowski> now there is a first :)
<balor> czajkowski, They're making me use Windows in work
<czajkowski> balor: and you haven't stomped your feet
<czajkowski> for shame! :)
<czajkowski> call yourself a geek :p
<BigRedS> AlanBell: slow query log
<BigRedS> it's in the my.cnf, then there's a mysql slow query log analyser which was from maatkit and I think is now offline
<BigRedS> I can send you a copy though. The guy who wrote it went to percona and stopped being so freely useful :)
<BigRedS> 99% of the time you can just check the logs yourself and sneakily add indexes, but sometimes you can see that four million rows are being selected and the page is only showing the first five or something
<balor> czajkowski, I've been stomping for years.  It's now time to give them what they want, and then see if they actually want it.
<czajkowski> balor: hehe
<AlanBell> BigRedS: that would be cool, I just turned on slow query logging and non-indexed queries, doesn't look like it makes any unindexed queries
<AlanBell> just rather a *lot* of small queries I expect
<daubers> I'd forgotten how much better my sennheisers where than my logitech USB headphones
<bigcalm> AlanBell: I had this same problem last week. Logging didn't show me what was wrong. Ended up using micro timers in the PHP around functions until I found the one taking up the most time
<BigRedS> AlanBell: what is this you're running? If it's a 'proper' project (i.e. OSS) it's probably fine
<BigRedS> but custom-written things seem to almost always completely misuse the db
<bigcalm> Yep :D
<bigcalm> Dealing with code from 2001 isn't healthy
<AlanBell> BigRedS: vtiger, it is open source
<BigRedS> you can profile the php, too, but it's less easy. The old adage of not optimising until you've run the code, have detected that it's slow *and* defined 'acceptable' holds, though :)
<BigRedS> AlanBell: ah, yeah, that's likely to be fairly well behaved, then :)
<AlanBell> the web services API to it is kinda sluggish (in fact the whole thing is underperforming a bit)
<mgdm> xhprof \o/
<BigRedS> yeah, I was just going to say that there's proper tools for profiling these things, and mgdm will know what they are :)
 * diplo takes a look at xhprof
<diplo> Might have to have a play with that xhprof
<AlanBell> logging sql queries is quite instructive
<diplo> Looks quite good, never bothered profiling any of our stuff before
<AlanBell> using web services to create one contact record causes 118 sql queries to happen
<diplo> jeesh, thatvtiger?
<diplo> My space bar sucks! :(
<AlanBell> yeah, viger
<AlanBell> t
<diplo> Seems a quite good package, took a look the other week after you mentioned it
<diplo> czajkowski: Any ideas on pay on that job you just posted?
<czajkowski> diplo: nope sorry
<AlanBell> yeah, it is OK for a PHP application, and performs fine most of the time, I just think it can go faster
 * AlanBell always used to take toys apart to make them go faster
<diplo> heh, why not if it's there to be tinkered with tinker away
<diplo> But as you say 118 queries
<diplo> !
<diplo> We have had to catch our developers on simialr issues with our in house app AlanBell
<diplo> They were loading every .js .css file on every page loaded
<AlanBell> it does 112 selects and 6 inserts
<AlanBell> I am thinking of getting my import routine to generate those inserts and cut out the other junk
<diplo> It was putting 2+ sec time on loads
<czajkowski> diplo: you can always ask HR or talk to them they know  tbh
<diplo> yeah, wasn't 100% interested in the job.. peeked my interest a little
<diplo> thanks, will keep it in mind
<diplo> Are Canonical quite flexible on hours ?
<diplo> So say i started at 8am and finished at 5pm, but one day a week i couldn't start till 9am..
<diplo> Do they allow for stuff like that ?
<diplo> Been interested in a few jobs on the site, but in my situation now I need to be able to sort my kids out
<diplo> *From your experience ( Not asking for a definitive answer )
<diplo> AlanBell: Lot's of tables to have that many inserts/selects ?
<AlanBell> yeah, it is a full tablefest
<diplo> heh, nothing ever prepared me for SAP's structure and I don't think anything can ever be as bad
<directhex> davical is ~40 tables
<TheOpenSourcerer> vtiger ~ 500
<czajkowski> diplo: very kid friendly
<diplo> \o/
<diplo> thanks
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, davical is just a calendar server
<czajkowski> some folks start later to do school runs
<czajkowski> others finish early to do schools, and others split it really depends on the team but it is very flexible
<gord> that reminds me, need to fabricate some children so i can have "emergencies".. "oh no, timmy ran into the chainsaw in the garage again, gotta go take him to the video games. i mean hospital. hospital not video games"
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - I know directhex
<diplo> SAPs initial install for the DB was 120GB empty.... i think
<diplo> from memory
<diplo> That's exactly my issue czajkowski, thanks, drop them at school @ 8:30 and pick up at 3:30 on amonday and once every other friday
<czajkowski> gord: Tim.. Tim..... TIMMY!!!
<diplo> Worried that will cause me issues in other companies, currents one is flexible but I'm really not enjoying my job :(
<czajkowski> diplo: pretty standard from what I can see, I dont' have kids, but most of my team does and nobody bats an eyelid
<diplo> heh gord, just read yours
<TheOpenSourcerer> we are [will be] a child friendly employer
<diplo> Must send you my CV at some point :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Feel free to do that diplo
 * AlanBell thoroughly approves of child labour
 * mgdm has a talk he has done on occasion about making websites fast
<mgdm> I'll dig out the slides if anyone wants
<diplo> I really think my 5 year old wants to do more, I'm scared to let him on to the PC's to much
<AlanBell> oh, does child friendly not mean that?
<diplo> mgdm: I'm interested
<mgdm> diplo: email me your address - mgdm@php.net - it'll help me remember :-)
<mgdm> whe I say 'address' I mean 'email', clearly :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> My son is beating me up - he wants MOAR SPEED on his PC - to play Minecraft... And do stop-motion videos
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's pretty old now so I do feel for him... An AMD 3400+ IIRC
<diplo> Done, as I'd forget otherwise
<diplo> TheOpenSourcerer: How old ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> 11
<TheOpenSourcerer> This is the kind pof thing he's into: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOqT711zQWo
<diplo> Ah mines only 5, turning 6 in Sept. But about 9 in his head :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have a 7yr old too.
<TheOpenSourcerer> he's also needing moar speed.
<diplo> So clever, the 4 year old was on the laptop I have for them the other day trying to swipe the screen to change pages, wasn't sure whether to laugh or cry
<matti> diplo: Hahah
<diplo> Wouldn't have had  a clue at their agge
<TheOpenSourcerer> I introduced them to Scratch a few weeks ago. gave them a 1/2 hr run through then left them to it. They made a simple Pacman type game in a few hours.
<diplo> mgdm: Guessing that would explain some of the php knowledge from the email address :)
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: what video card does it have?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Some (very)old nvidia thinggy
<TheOpenSourcerer> with 4 stream processors running at 30Hz IIRC.
<popey> find out what it is, I may have a better one you can have
<TheOpenSourcerer> PCI
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not PCIe
<mgdm> diplo: possibly :-)
<popey> ah
<TheOpenSourcerer> or anything later
<TheOpenSourcerer> Mobo is an Asus asus A8N-SLI Delux IIRC
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh - So it will be PCIe
<popey> yeah
<popey> i have one in my old desktop
<popey> i may have something, lemme look when i get home
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'll do a lspci on it. I can WoL it from here.
<popey> ok
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation NV37GL [Quadro FX 330/GeForce PCX 5300] (rev a2)
<jacobw> TheOpenSourcerer: scratch is used by the open university
<ali1234> scratch is app inventor renamed right?
<jacobw> i don't think so
<jacobw> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scratch_%28programming_language%29
<ali1234> the "programming language" part looks identical
<Flashtek> damnit.. why can't i change my V5c addresses online...
<AlanBell>  ali1234 scratch pre-dates app inventor by some margin
<ali1234> yeah i saw that. they are closely related though. makes sense that google gave the source to MIT too
<ali1234> also: submitted merge request with spelling fixes. maintainer merges it, and spells my name wrong :)
<AlanBell> http://ronaldbradford.com/blog/last_insert_idexpr-the-lesser-known-usage-2007-09-12/ this is the slowest query that mysql does
<AlanBell> update vtiger_crmentity_seq set id=LAST_INSERT_ID(id+1);
<diplo> evening all
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: I get that all the time
<diplo> 10.10 dual screen, I have a 24" 2407 and 20" 2007, 20" on the left and landscape
<diplo> Can't get nvidia settings to change on the left screen
<diplo> Any tips / tools any one can recommend ?
<ali1234> change what?
<MartijnVdS> diplo: buy intel :P\
<mgdm> AlanBell: there's no way on earth that can be the slowest query
<diplo> The orientation ( missed that bit )
<diplo> Got intel on board, this is a 8800GTX
<ali1234> i didn't know nvidia settings could do that
<AlanBell> mgdm: thats what I thought too
<mgdm> t might have been in that particular run
<diplo> It can't that I can find ali1234
<mgdm> the important thing about profiling is don't get hung up on the outliers
<diplo> Trying to find something else if possible
<mgdm> look at the 95% time
<AlanBell> really, it is that
<AlanBell> pt-query-digest mysql-slow.log    ->    http://paste.ubuntu.com/1049546/
<AlanBell> so, that is two cold runs of inserting 100 contacts through the web services interface
<AlanBell> the PARTITIONS and TABLES queries don't count as they only happened once per restart of mysql
<mgdm> weird
<AlanBell> yeah, I am trying to understand the side effects of LAST_INSERT_ID
<diplo> I use it on my sites AlanBell probably for similar reasons, as it's for my contact info i use it on mine
<AlanBell> it does a vast number of queries on the vtiger_ws_entity_fieldtype table which mostly return nothing, but they return fast
<AlanBell> I am not sure if this measures all of the overhead for doing a query
<AlanBell> mgdm: I am seeing lots of places to download xhprof from but it isn't in the repos, which installation method would you recommend?
<mgdm> AlanBell: github.com/preinheimer/xhprof
<mgdm> AlanBell: that variant makes the UI somewhat less insane
<mgdm> AlanBell: you can compile the extension as long as you have 'php5-dev' installed - go into the extension directory and do 'phpize', './configure', 'make', then 'sudo make install'
<mgdm> AlanBell: it only puts one file into the PHP modules dir, and then you need to put 'extension=xhprof.so' into /etc/php5/conf.d/xhprof.ini
<AlanBell> great
<directhex> http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2011/12/08/kingston-hyper-x-240gb-review/1 for Â£132 delivered.
<diplo> Before I pick a random scrolling banner like this one, can anyone recommend anything ?
<diplo> http://www.mclelun.com/labs/#jqbanner
<mgdm> directhex: nice
<mgdm> diplo: I used jQuery Cycle for that
<diplo> ta, taking a look now
<diplo> Well me and js still don't get on :)
 * diplo goes watch telly for a bit and come back to it
<diplo> Could be the hacking I'm doing to Joomla, and breaking something there though :)
<mgdm> eep
<mgdm> I don't get on with Joomla
<diplo> heh, a few people recommended it
<diplo> Been asked if I can replace http://www.peopleagainstpoverty.com site
<diplo> And I want mainly styling with a few added extras
<diplo> I knew if i came back to it I'd fix it :)
<MartijnVdS> Pendulum: Aw.. you're splitting up? http://www.supajam.com/news/story/Pendulum-to-split-up?tr=6190795
<DJones> diplo: If you do replace that website, run a spell check on the trustee's page before it goes public
<diplo> heh, never looked at it. It's a charity where I work.. I like one of the girls in there :)
<diplo> Will do though, and will advise them.
 * diplo looks now actually
<DJones> Heh
<DJones> Which charity do you work for?
<diplo> Not me, the PAP website people are a charity, I've done some work for them recently
<diplo> Helping out to get in a girls good books :)
<DJones> Right, I'm with you
<diplo> I said I'd have a look and see how much work is involved
<diplo> Seems ok so far
<mattt> tv advertisement for the macbook pro
<mattt> don't recall seeing those before
<diplo> So the Majority of this is going to be CSS
<diplo> A little hacking
<diplo> Might say I will do it :)
<mgdm> I redid my website recently, wrote the CSS using LESS instead
<mgdm> which is like CSS, but you can nest things and use variables
<mgdm> so instead of remembering your link colour is #33f you can define @linkcolor = #33f and use @linkcolor everywhere :-)
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: they're adding support to Webkit for variables
<mgdm> MartijnVdS: aye, but it's not quite the same thing
<diplo> Might take a look at that mgdm, done a lot less web deb stuff in last few months
<mgdm> the variables in LESS are a little more like #defines in the C preprocessor
<AlanBell> yeah variables in CSS make a heap of sense
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: aren't the webkit/css variables mostly the same?
<mgdm> Hmm, actually, disregard that, i'd mixed them up with something
<mgdm> MartijnVdS: I was thinking of something else
<AlanBell> even if they were *just* for colours they would be really useful
<popey> http://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/ \o/
<MartijnVdS> ooh it's public
<MartijnVdS> lots of very basic questions
<MartijnVdS> to be expected of course :)
<ali1234> i see lots of questions that are exact dulicates of questions on other sites
<popey> thats not surprising at all
<mcphail> the only question I'm interested in is "when will mine pop through the letterbox?"
<MartijnVdS> it's a whole new group of people discovering Linux
<MartijnVdS> and not the most polished distro either
<MartijnVdS> so questions like that are to be expected
<diplo> mcphail: +1
<diplo> :/
<diplo> My work colleage has had his 2 weeks and it's still sat on his desk doing nothing :(
<MartijnVdS> I have mine on my desk
<MartijnVdS> in a nice case
<mcphail> mine will be getting sellotaped to the back of the tv
<MartijnVdS> I've installed Raspbian
<diplo> I'm going to get a few eventually, I want 2 xbmc ones, and one as a low powered server to monitor stuff and maybe house automation eventually
<ali1234> the quality of answers is really poor too :(
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: that you can fix
<diplo> ali1234: I'd agree with that, people answering with more questions really :)
<ali1234> again, i'm not going to answer the same questions here that i've already answered on other sites
<mcphail> diplo: i can recommed a sheevaplug as a low power arm server. I'm not sure the rasp pi is quite up to the task
<ali1234> which is why the answers are so poor, probably
<ali1234> this site shouldn't exist, all these questions should be asked on the main SE sites, where they will be instantly marked as duplicates of the questions with existing good answers
<BigRedS> it does seem a little over-specific, but then there is the thinkpadlinux thing...
<ali1234> here is a classic example: http://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/258/how-to-program-a-usb-device-with-debian-python?rq=1
<ali1234> that question has nothing at all to do with raspberry pi
 * mgdm never got into stackoverflow
<BigRedS> Is that notably different from a question about bash scripting on a Ubuntu forum?
<mgdm> I search it, but have never asked or answered a question
<ali1234> no, it isn't
<ali1234> but stack exchange isn't a forum
<BigRedS> well, a ubuntu stack exchange thing then
<ali1234> many people believe ask ubuntu shouldn't be a separate site either, and when it comes to thing like prgramming questions, they often get moved to main SE sites
<ali1234> if you ask a questionthat somehow involves ubuntu-specific APIs (like unity integration, or using quickly) then that's one thing
<ali1234> but if, for example, you ask a question like "how do i write a usb driver for my webcam?" then the question will at best be moved somewhere else, or at worst receive only bad answers (or no answers at all)
<ali1234> this is also why stack exchange discourages sites aimed at "beginners" and also dumped the tag for "beginner" questions. it's because if you make a site like that only beginners will use it and you won't ever get good answers.
<BigRedS> yeah, beginner forums only work if you've already got a big community with experienced people who specifically want to help them
<BigRedS> and even then they don't really
<kane1309> helllo
<BigRedS> good morning
<kane1309> hello how do i get my minecraft in termial i forgot
<BigRedS> er,   java -jar <minecraft jar file>   I think?
<BigRedS> It's been a long time since I've played Minecraft; didn't it say it on the downloads page?
<DJones> kane1309: java -jar minecraft.jar (I think)
<kane1309> thanks
<AlanBell> mgdm: I am struggling to get xhprof to do anything :(
<mgdm> AlanBell: :/
<AlanBell> I have installed it and referenced it in /etc/php5/conf.d/xhprof
<AlanBell> php -m shows it is loaded
<mgdm> OK
<mgdm> did you set up the UI and add the header and footer include files?
<AlanBell> I tried to
<AlanBell> not entirely clear where the header and footer includes go, it says in a vhost
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1049899/ not sure if that is right, just sticking them at the bottom
<mgdm> that's fine
<AlanBell> restarted apache, there doesn't appear to be any output happening in /tmp
<mgdm> Hmmm? It should go into MySQL
<AlanBell> oh
<AlanBell> how does it know to go there?
<mgdm> when you set up the UI stuff there's meant to be a config file to tell it how to store it
<mgdm> thought that was in the instructions somewhere, evidently not
<AlanBell> ah, and the footer and header reference that, ok
<mgdm> yeah
<AlanBell> ok, so I set up an empty database, with an xhprof user and added that to the config
<mgdm> ok
<mgdm> there's a file somewhere with the table structure
<mgdm> sorry, this is a little vague, i'm doing two things at once
<AlanBell> mgdm: ok, getting there I think :)
<mgdm> AlanBell: *phew* :)
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/callgraphs/ comedy callgraphs
<diplo> bloomin eck
<diplo> Big graph
<mgdm> xhprof is great for having a comedy big black line going 'this is where you screwed up'
<mgdm> glad you got it working :)
<mgdm> there's nothing really obviously wrong there, though
<BigRedS> oooh
<keir_> my tab autocomplete in terminal emulators (xfterm, xterm) seems to have stopped working, any ideas on what might be going wrong/how i could get it back?
<mcphail> keir_: have you changed shell? are you using bash?
<keir_> mcphail, am using bash, havent changed shell, recently upgraded to 12.04 which I assume is what broke things...
<keir_> when I ssh in it works fine
<popey> uhm
<popey> gedit some file
<popey> in the terminal press ctrl+\
<popey> it core dumps here
<ali1234> what is ctrl+\
<popey> the key next to z âº
<popey> I dunno, i hit it by accident
<popey> and the editor crapped itself
<ali1234> yeah it segfaults here too
<popey> its not just gedit
<popey> tried gcalctool
<ali1234> so what signal is that sending?
 * popey straces
<ali1234> maybe it sends sig11?
<ali1234> ie SEGV
<ali1234> which would be handy for testing crash handlers
<ali1234> no, that does something different
<ali1234> aaah
<ali1234> well i was close
<ali1234> behaviour is intended
<ali1234> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control-%5C
<ali1234> "Under most UNIX based operating systems control-\ is used to terminate a running process from a command shell and have it produce a memory core dump by sending it a SIGQUIT signal."
<popey>    golly
<dubac0> http://www.canon-europe.com/Support/Consumer_Products/products/printers/Laser/i-SENSYS_LBP7200Cdn.aspx?DLtcmuri=tcm:13-846492&page=1&type=download would this work with ubuntu?
<ali1234> no
<dubac0> cannon i-sensys lbp7200cdn         ubuntu 12.04
<dubac0> how to get that working as a network printer?
<ali1234> oh wait it's driver version 2.4 not linux version 2.4
<dubac0> ali1234: so it may work?
<ali1234> i don't know
#ubuntu-uk 2012-06-20
<Azelphur> grr, my cursor keeps disappearing in gedit
<Azelphur> annoying :(
<ali1234> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/12/06/19/1347212/apple-patents-polluting-facebook-google-profiles
<ali1234> i actually came up with this idea earlier today!
<Azelphur> xD
<dogmatic69> ali1234: what you doing on slashdot? all the cool kids are on reddit :P
<ali1234> er, no
<ali1234> that's precisely why i don't go on it
<dogmatic69> :D
<ali1234> it's full of kids who think they are cool
<ali1234> so today's rejected idea for the ubuntu app showdown was an app that fills zeitgeist with fake data
<ali1234> because if you leave it on it tracsk everything you do, but if you turn it off it looks like you're hiding something
<ali1234> so the only workable solution is to generate fake innocuous data... but it seems apple already patented that idea
<ali1234> here's an idea for you: why hasn't anyone ever made a tablet with the touchscreen on the back?
<dogmatic69> lol
<ali1234> that way you can use it without your hand covering most of the display
<dogmatic69> possibly the issue of not seeing what you are touching
<ali1234> that's irrelevant
<ali1234> when you use a mouse do you look at your hand? no
<ali1234> you don't even look directly at the mouse point
<ali1234> you look where you are clicking
<ali1234> when you point at something in real life, do you look at your hand? no, you don't
<ali1234> in fact with a normal tablet you can't see what you are touching, because your hand is in the way. this is the problem that my idea solves :)
<ali1234> ok maybe it's a bad idea
<dogmatic69> hehe
<MooDoo> morning all
<diplo> Morningall
 * diplo smashes his space bar :(
 * AlanBell is on a boat
<DJones> diplo: Itwasbrokenbefore,noneedtobreakeverybodyelsesviatheinternet
<mattt> AlanBell: why ?
<AlanBell> London Eye to Canary Wharf
<mattt> oh nice :)
<mattt> AlanBell: btw, i meant to show you something the other week
<AlanBell> put it away quick, here comes the nurse
<mattt> i follow @LinuxFreelancer on twitter, and there was a tweet about someone needing help w/ openerp
<AlanBell> oh cool
<mattt> yeah, meant to mention it, but it slipped my mind :(
<mattt> brb
<diplo> DJones: It's been broken since new, I was to lazy to get it fixed :(
<christel> AlanBell: there was an impressive turnout of 19 people last night!
<AlanBell> nice
<christel> yeah!
<popey> Morning
<daubers> christel: What for?
<mattt> daubers: the secret party you weren't invited to!
 * mattt has no idea either
<christel> daubers: the surrey/hants hackerspace meeting
<christel> popey: you'll be pleased to know that we changed every other meeting to be on thursdays and that we volunteered you for the Looking at Venues team! ;)
<MartijnVdS> Looking at Venus!
<popey> uhhhhhh
<popey> ok!
<daubers> christel: One day I'll get down to one of those, see if there's anything at Reading we can do to help
<christel> awesome, we had a few people from the reading one turn up
<mattt> daubers: there's one in reading ?  got details ?
<daubers> mattt: http://www.readinghackspace.org.uk
<nperry> morn o/
<daubers> mattt: and #reading-hackspace :)
<daubers> though it tends to be a bit quiet
<Guest40145> Why do some ISOs only burn on CD-R or DVD-R
<Guest40145> why isn't it universial?
<nperry> Guest40145: You can only fit 700mb iso or less on CD-R
<Guest40145> yeah but why do some vendors only recommend -R and not +R
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
<DJones> From memory, weren't -R and +R differing technologies by different manufacturers so they were all promoting their own version
<daubers> Guest40145: That's more to do iwth the dyes and drives than iso images
<directhex> -R and +R applies to DVD, not CD
<directhex> also -RAM
<bigcalm> Good mornings peeps :)
<andylockran> morning peeps
<andylockran> and peepesss
<andylockran> how goes things?
<nperry> popey: isitoutyet?
<DJones> Grr, stupid Nat West, broken online banking systems isn't a good thing
<czajkowski> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2012-June/035387.html
<AlanBell> that doesn't appear to be wildly informative
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<BigRedS> what's the this-century version of dpkg --get-selections?
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: that :)
<BigRedS> Oh, good :)
<popey> bye bye always connected irssi
<dwatkins> sadface
<bigcalm> What are we to do without a popey in here?
<dwatkins> wait until he comes back?
 * bigcalm bites his nails
<gord> make snide remarks about him behind his back obviously
<bigcalm> What if he doesn't come back!?
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: we can all 'hangout' on g+
<dwatkins> I'll pester him on Google+ until he does?
<gord> can we hang out behind the bike sheds on g+? only the cool kids allowed
<diplo> :P
<bigcalm> Not me then
<czajkowski> why no popey :(
 * czajkowski peers at gord 
<czajkowski> whatcha do
<bigcalm> One assumes that he needs to reboot a server
<bigcalm> Or he's had enough
<nperry> He may have deleted the internet.
<bigcalm> We have only moments left
<nperry> I'm spending the last minutes of the internet watching leweb :(
<gord> we can all stay safe in the knowledge that given that we still exist, we are not all just figments of popeys imagination
<bigcalm> Deep
<diplo> Too Deep for this early in the morning
<bigcalm> Need more coffee
<diplo> :)
 * dwatkins is trying tea without milk for a change
<AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1824/detail/ looks like we need a few more chaps to balance things out a bit
<dwatkins> I felt like saying to the kettle 'tea, earl grey, hot'
<diplo> Where abouts are you Alan ish ?
<bigcalm> AlanBell: if I were to come, so would Hayley. We would cancel each other out
<bigcalm> There, I'm tentative
<BigRedS> AlanBell: could I sleep in your garden again?
<AlanBell> yes, no problem
<BigRedS> Coool!
<BigRedS> ta!
<DJones> As if twitter wasn't enough for people to say that they're just getting up, now another copy/clone http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18518162
<gord> don't the chickens mind?
<nperry> DJones: "only available in the us"
<DJones> So far
<DJones> I like this comment in the article " "This is an idea that I've had since Christmas. I've been a passionate user of social media since the days of AOL chatrooms, and that was the inspiration really.""
<DJones> Inspired by AOL chatrooms :)
<nperry> "Discussion on Menshn has initially been restricted to the US election but Ms Mensch says it will expand to reflect users' interests."
<nperry> Awesome, a chinnese social network.
<gord> new social networks always survive, i'm sure we will be hearing more from this particular one
<davmor2> morning all
<nperry> I can imagine, "You are not allowed to post about Ubuntu, we want you to talk about apple today"
<DJones> Next thing you know, it'll be confirmed it will only work as long as you use Netscape
<nperry> Netscape > *
<an0key> ie IE6
<an0key> *or
<AlanBell> wonder if it is based on status.net
<diplo> Anyone know what RH/CentOS used for udisks equivalent before implementing in Cent6 ?
<DJones> You can register for it if you use megaproxy to get around the Non-US eligibility
 * diplo guesses it was HAL
<DJones> Maybe not, its disabled by the proxy then
<bigcalm> DJones: what if you're in Canada?
<AlanBell> http://menshn.com/nopage it is running apache
<BigRedS> X-Powered-By: PleskLin
<BigRedS> ew
<DJones> You can log in with facebook if you so desire
<DJones> Give a politicians website access to your facebook account, its one way of getting your personal info for the security services & tracking
 * DJones gets out a foil hat
<BigRedS> Haha
<BigRedS> I love the idea of a politician working that bit out
<DJones> Conversation in the office is about parents spying on their kids at school, they can check what they've had for dinner via the schools website, parents have to put credit on an account, the kid has to sign for whatever they'd picked using a fingerprint reader
<diplo> Good idea imp
<diplo> imo*
<diplo> Look forward to it at my kids school
<DJones> Seems a bit too much like big brother
<DJones> I can understand why they do it though
<hamitron> doesn't that add extra expense? surely be money better spent on better food
<diplo> Well for me, I used to give my kids money to get lunch
<diplo> I found out he was having 3 portions of different chocolate
<diplo> No thanks to the school
<BigRedS> depends how the parents handle it
<diplo> Now he has a fruit starter, some sort of sandwich type main and a fruit/yoghurt for pudding
<DJones> I used to go to my Grandad's for my dinner and had things like fried lambs heart, black pudding, liver etc :)
<BigRedS> judging by stories I hear of internet barring, frequently badly
<bigcalm> AlanBell: what was the PHP profiler you used on vtiger?
<hamitron> how much are school meals now?
<diplo> I couldn't believe they let them have chocolate for all three courses
<diplo> bigcalm: xhprof
<diplo> Was looking myself earlier :)
<bigcalm> Easy to use?
<diplo> Seems so, not used yet but AlanBell put a link up last night of what it generated
<diplo> 22:37 < AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/callgraphs/ comedy callgraphs
<diplo> Was that it, can't remember now
<hamitron> Â£2 for a school meal? :|
<diplo> Yep :)
<hamitron> same problem as when I was at school then
<diplo> He rarely has one from me, normally packed lunch
<diplo> Think his mum does it quite often though
<hamitron> cheaper to run out of grounds and go to bakery ;)
<diplo> Depends if i was organised or not
<diplo> :)
<AlanBell> bigcalm: xhprof
<bigcalm> Ta :)
<bigcalm> AlanBell: easy to use?
<AlanBell> non trivial to install
<AlanBell> or I am incompetent
<bigcalm> Hehe, aww
<bigcalm> Oh my, popey came back!
 * hamitron steps in line
<popey> bigcalm: yup âº
<dogmatic69> anyone seen the Gooseberry (competition for Raspberry Pi)
<dogmatic69> Seems like a smartphone without the screen
<diplo> dogmatic69: After reading up about it, the guy is selling the board which comes in the cheap tablets
<diplo> and is basically selling it with a psu
<MartijnVdS> so yes
<MartijnVdS> it's a phone without a screen :)
<dogmatic69> diplo: ah
<diplo> Good on him tbh, I could have done with thinking that up
<diplo> :D
<bigcalm> My intertubes are so slow recently. What are VM up to?
<dogmatic69> the shape of the board is a give-away
<dogmatic69> it has all those funny cut outs and one rounded corner
<diplo> bigcalm: Why I left a couple of years ago :/
<diplo> Along with having a friends and family deal with sky
<diplo> :)
<bigcalm> diplo: it's ok mostly, just recently a bit iffy
<dogmatic69> 6 days till 75mb/s line \o/
<bigcalm> Might not be VM
 * bigcalm shrugs
<gord> is mostly okay really good enough these days?
<diplo> My main issue was with downloading anything torrent related
<diplo> if i downloaded a torrent I would get good speeds but i couldn't do _anything_ else
<bigcalm> Traffic shaping :)
<diplo> And afterwards I had to reboot the modem every time
<bigcalm> Heh, that sucks
<bigcalm> And sounds iffy
<diplo> Downside was that it wasn't for pirated material
<diplo> :(
<bigcalm> You can limit the download speed of torrents
<diplo> yeah it was, wasn't speeds... it was just using torrents that caused it
<hamitron> does it help tunnelling the torrent traffic?
<diplo> never tried, not been with them the last 2 years
<diplo> moved to sky, only get 6mb max but it's sooooo much more stable :/
<hamitron> tbh, stability I consider a lot more important
<hamitron> I was tempted to sign up to bt infinity
<hamitron> but read bad things, so stayed on slow dsl
<gord> you can get a reseller for infinity that is.. well, not BT
<bigcalm> Still waiting for the PECL site to load
<hamitron> yeh, but didn't really see anything I liked
<hamitron> I refuse to pay more than Â£30 per month
<gord> i'm looking at zen right now, no traffic shaping, just a so many gb limit
<hamitron> I just signed a 12 month contract with demon internet, they gave me a nice discount
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> then will re-assess after the year
<gord> doesn't seem like you can get anything good for less than Â£30 a month with an infinity reseller. you'll get 20gb limit on zen
<hamitron> exactly
<hamitron> :(
<gord> 100gb for Â£35 though
<hamitron> there are some good packages if you sign a deal for calls on your phone line when I looked
<hamitron> but we are still locked into a contract with bt for that
<hamitron> so after the year...... ;)
<hamitron> I fancy giving plusnet a go
<hamitron> unless demon offer bt infinity resale
<DJones> If you're with Sky, you can get Sky Fibre Unlimited for Â£20
<hamitron> do they offer a static ip yet?
<gord> do they still require a tv contract too?
<DJones> gord: Yes
<gord> meeeh
<DJones> hamitron: Don't know about fibre, normal isn't static
<hamitron> atm I got a block of 8 :)
<AlanBell> hamitron: plusnet only do static IP on the big package
<hamitron> yeh, plusnet do everything I want
<bigcalm> There he goes again!
<DJones> Somebody get him a new carrier pigeon
<hamitron> and Yorkshire broadband is good broadband
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> I'd need a new usb stick to use pigeon :/
 * bigcalm gets out the crazy glue
<diplo> bigcalm: On virgin here and pecl seems fine here so a regional issue i guess
<bigcalm> diplo: aye
<diplo> ooh DJones I didn't know that sky were offering that
 * diplo wonders whether I try that
<bigcalm> diplo: currently trying to load my.virginmedia.com to check their status
 * bigcalm twiddles his thumbs
<davmor2> bigcalm: you want to glue yourself to crazy??
<diplo> lol, well that's not loading very quickly here bigcalm  :D
<DJones> diplo: I'm waiting fore fibre to announced in my area
<diplo> It has been here \o/
<bigcalm> davmor2: I keep losing my crazy, so that might help
<diplo> Wonder if sky will make me sign another 12 months though
<diplo> ?
<DJones> Probably
<diplo> I've loaded but i need to login bigcalm and don't know the details sorry
<diplo> meh, may cancel total package
<diplo> see if that works
<bigcalm> https://my.virginmedia.com/faults/service-status
<diplo> if i don't have it, i can't watch it
<bigcalm> That doesn't need a login
<diplo> heh, can't see any details for a VM at this address
<davmor2> bigcalm: it only does you know :P
 * davmor2 thinks virgin poached bigcalm s crazy
<bigcalm> :O
<popey> phew!
<bigcalm> Is faun the firewall?
<popey> guess so
<czajkowski> davmor2: Herrrro
<Myrtti> hohum
<Myrtti> yet another day
<davmor2> czajkowski: Prodington Prod morning
<bigcalm> Would somebody please stop drinking my tea!
<davmor2> bigcalm: I blame virgin they seem to be getting the blame for everything else today ;)
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> So it's true that the internet is a series of tubes
<davmor2> bigcalm: we just need someone to implement boip now
<bigcalm> davmor2: No`
<davmor2> bigcalm: why no beer over ip?  how about coip and toip then :D
<bigcalm> Daviey: you silly man :P
<bigcalm> davmor2: do you not know No`?
<davmor2> bigcalm: was the Daviey comment for me
<bigcalm> davmor2: yes, but he's a silly man as well ;)
<Myrtti> czajkowski: http://twitter.com/myrtti/status/215401537130872833 :-P
<czajkowski> Myrtti: oh nice
<czajkowski> there does seem to be a lot of interest in that role
<czajkowski> Myrtti: harass aquarius
<czajkowski> :)
<bigcalm> Myrtti: fingers crossed :)
<czajkowski> aka bbuy him beer
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> Buy him late night pizza
<czajkowski> or chargers for travel
<bigcalm> A passport locating device
<Myrtti> pack of smokes and earplugs for pubnights
<bigcalm> :D
<Myrtti> so Mr. Brightside doesn't infiltrate his eardrums
<czajkowski> ah yes
 * gord looks around his office for elves
<czajkowski> and also if you could provide a DJ with decent music that may also help
<Myrtti> gord: have you noticed your ears and the fancy bow and arrow you have?
 * Myrtti cuddles everyone â¥ 
<gord> but i don't wanna be an elf :( </seinfeld>
<gord> thats a lie, i totally do
<davmor2> Myrtti: Yay, good luck!
<aquarius> Hmph. I see I am being caricatured again
<Myrtti> aquarius: but we love you anyway â¥
<bigcalm> aquarius: do you deny any of these traits?
<aquarius> the whole is, I sincerely hope, more than the sum of the parts
<aquarius> also, I know precisely where my passport is. :)
 * DJones is a DJ (maybe the wrong sort) but the music choice would probably be annoying
<bigcalm> Slowly everybody in this channel gets swallowed by Canonical
<czajkowski> aquarius: see you do now, but I do look froward to the tweet where you go looking for it again when needed
<davmor2> bigcalm: you this isn't canonical-uk darn it
<aquarius> czajkowski, ah, the passport I'm careful with, since if I lose it getting another one is a nightmare. Adaptors, less so.
<aquarius> Myrtti, can you say which role you applied for? By PM is fine if you prefer :)
<Myrtti> aquarius: the support one :-)
<Myrtti> aquarius: btw did you decide where to spend the windfall?
<aquarius> ah, gotcha. The role's not under me, but I know who *is* the hiring manager. :)
<aquarius> windfall: no. I need a bunch of new clothes, though, so that might be it. No Boxster for me :(
<Myrtti> Did you have a particular one in sight or just a Boxster?
<hamitron> doesn't it require a fair amount of buying clothes, to spend the money what a boxster costs?
<directhex> how about clothes, plus a new pc for directhex?
 * hamitron is not greedy, and would be just as happy with only a new pc
<christel> ooh yes! someone should hire Myrtti
<bigcalm> I wonder if popey is making up for all the times that he hasn't quit IRC
<christel> so it would seem!
<Myrtti> /mode +b popey!*@*$##fix_your_connection_or_use_irssi_damnit
<popey> shut your noise
<Myrtti> â¥
<popey> :p
<Myrtti> aw. You're ruining my fun. I'm having a good day for a change
<popey> can't seem to get xchat to join all the channels I need
<bigcalm> Channel connection limit?
<davmor2> popey: I can :D
<bigcalm> You're connected here, what more do you need?
<popey> bah, I'll go elsewhere for help
<popey> :(
<bigcalm> Though you seem to be missing from a MC channel
<bigcalm> Aww
<davmor2> popey: I have 36 channels open on 2 networks currently
<christel> that's just greedy
<czajkowski> 4 networks and 34 channels
<davmor2> s/on/over
<czajkowski> more than enough
<czajkowski> but some do refuse to autojoin which is kinda poo
<bigcalm> Maybe they expect you to be registered with nickserv before allowing you to join
<popey> davmor2 not helping
<popey> it's invite only channels I'm having issues with
<popey> but have found /timer so will use that
<bigcalm> popey: I was about to suggest a race situation might fix it
<czajkowski> popey: ah likewise I have to have identified before I can join so it never autojoins, if and when you figure this bit out let me know
<jpds> bigcalm: No, a race situation is the problem.
<davmor2> popey: it was more that it can handle that amount of channels so you knew what I had open as an example
<jpds> czajkowski: irssi right?
<czajkowski> jpds: yarp
<jpds> czajkowski: Under chatnets, you need a autosendcmd = "wait 200";
 * popey tries again
<czajkowski> ahh
<jpds> wait 2000 might be better, wait 2 seconds before joining.
<czajkowski> nods
<czajkowski> it's suually I just need to identify with chanserv
<czajkowski> to log into council channels
<czajkowski> popey: boo welcome back
<popey> found out how to do it, timer not long enough it seems
<Myrtti> in theory if you are using SASL to identify, you're identified before you join any channels no matter what connection settings you've got
<czajkowski> popey: did you see jpds suggestion of 2000
<Myrtti> if I've understood things right
<popey> http://forum.xchat.org/viewtopic.php?t=4286
<popey> is what i am doing
<bigcalm> I do believe that it's lunch time \o/
<diplo> Sorry coming late to the convo, I had the same issue popey
<diplo> Wasn't authing soon enough, that was the windows version of xchat
<AlanBell> popey: any interesting reason for the xchattieness or just wanted a change?
<diplo> use irssi now though :/
<popey> lunctime!
<davmor2> popey: I thought you were a irrssi man why the move to xchat?
<AlanBell> lunchtime for me too. Wonder if I can get away early and go bother people in bluefin today
<diplo> daubers: Our local B&Q used to
<diplo> not got one local ?
<daubers> diplo: 3 week lead time
<diplo> that sucks
<diplo> Don't know anyone with a van, or roof rack
<diplo> ?
<daubers> annoyingly if you buy paint from the B&Q website you can get it delivered in a few days
<daubers> diplo: Know a man with a van... but borrowed it not so long ago for plasterboard...
<diplo> Luckily my sister has horses, so my delivery of stuff like that is sorted
<diplo> last job i could use a van/lorry when ever i wanted
<diplo> So horse box is good fall back
<diplo> Tried places like Wickes ?
<daubers> Â£25 if you're within 5 miles of the store (more than the cost of the panel)
<diplo> Seems best bet is to buy man with a van some beer and ask nicely again :)
<daubers> Yeah... or buy a trailor and do the trailor test
<diplo> Buy a cheap roof rack ?
<directhex> :D my first ever SSD has shipped :D
<Myrtti> daubers: what are you looking for?
<dwatkins> directhex: which capacity did you order, I'm curious - I was looking for the sweet-spot in pricing a while ago
<directhex> dwatkins, 240G for Â£132
<directhex> so i'll give 60G to ubuntu and 180 to windows, with /home and c:\users on a different drive
<dwatkins> I bought a hybrid disk as it was about the same price but 750 GB
<daubers> Myrtti: Need to get 2 fence panels, strugglign to find somewhere that will deliver
<daubers> (in a reasonable time frame)
<davmor2> daubers: wickes
<daubers> davmor2: I'm more than 5 miles from the store, so the delivery is extortionate!
<daubers> "Delivery Cost - Â£42.00."
<daubers> I could rent a van for less than that!
<davmor2> daubers: try garden centers or local builder merchants
<Myrtti> :-/ we just get a fencing guy to do it :-/
<daubers> Myrtti: I'd rather do it myself..... It's only 2 fence panels
<Myrtti> we had the whole wall come down last spring I think, the guy replaced the wooden posts by concrete and leveled the edges a bit as apparently the previous tenants brought in too much soil and our plot is about a halffoot to foot higher than neighbours or surrounding areas
<Myrtti> s/the/a/
<Twinkletoes> I read somewhere that is was a bad idea to redirect mail for root by changing its alias, and to put a .forward file in root's homedir instead.  I can't remember where I read it, but why is one better than the other?
<BigRedS> I can't think why it would be
<BigRedS> we use an alias on all our servers
<BigRedS> I think ~/.forward fails more gracefully
<BigRedS> if something's wrong the email  ends up in a mailbox rather than disappearing into the ether
<dwatkins> root might get mails from failed cronjobs
<andylockran> dwatkins: what's a hybrid disk?
<dwatkins> andylockran: normal hard disk with a caching SSD in front of it - http://www.ebuyer.com/321969-seagate-750gb-momentus-xt-ssd-st750lx003
<andylockran> aye, looks cool
<dwatkins> yeah, I fitted mine in my Macbook Pro, has worked great.
<nperry> dwatkins: Do you not get better performance out of ssd + hdd then a hybrid?
<andylockran> nperry: not for the stuff on the hdd
<andylockran> I like the idea
<andylockran> I went with a 120GB SSD just over a year ago
<andylockran> 18 months
<andylockran> Â£1 per GB
<dwatkins> nperry: I honestly don't know - I restored my backup onto the disk, so the fact it feels faster could just be due to less fragmentation.
<popey> down to 50p/GB now!
<popey> fragmentation is only usually an issue with linux filesystems if they're full
<popey> or nearly full
 * bigcalm waddles back in
<gord> if it wern't for ubuntu one, i'd live on just ssd's everywhere + nas
<dwatkins> popey: this is HPFS, or whatever my Mac uses for its OS system partition, but may well be the same
<nperry> I may get one of the hybrid to put into my laptop, which seems to be failing SMART at the moment..
<nperry> However it has been for the last couple of weeks but fsck was able to 'block' the bad sectors.
<popey> meh
<popey> I'm not going back to spinning rust
<popey> SSD all the way
<dwatkins> if it's using up spare sectors because there are failing ones, it'll eventually run out
<directhex> my ssd should arrive tomorrow :)
<dwatkins> I gather SSDs are a lot better nowadays, but presumably they fail over time still
<bigcalm> popey: even in the proliant?
<popey> yes :p
<bigcalm> Ooo, money bags :P
<directhex> 180G for windows, 60G for ubuntu, and repurpose current main rust drive for /home and d:\users
<nperry> I have never taken a HDD out of a laptop before, as mobos have died before the hdd, how hard is it to do?
<dwatkins> depends on the laptop nperry
<nperry> I'm assuming it is depandant on the laptop itself and where it is placed.
<dwatkins> some are really easy, others are a right pain, there should be tutorials with pictures etc. online if it's a common enough model
<directhex> easy on a thinkpad
<directhex> one screw, then pull the tab
<bigcalm> popey: I bought 3 2.5" to 3.5" drive converters to put some USB disks into the server. They don't work because they centralise the drive rather than putting the connectors into the same location 3.5" drives use
<directhex> bigcalm, nice
<bigcalm> popey: so let me know how you plan on putting SSDs into the Proliant
<nperry> And pretty much any HDD or SSD would fit, as long as its 2.5", which I believe all laptops are now-a-days
<mgdm> gaffer tape
<bigcalm> Haha
<popey> bigcalm, i dont plan to, i already have
<directhex> bigcalm, the Â£130 240G ssd i just bought also comes with a 3.5" converter with appropriate placement, and a usb caddy to use it as an external disk
<bigcalm> popey: how?
<popey> my hp microserver has ssd for /
<popey> in the top bay
<bigcalm> Ah, not in the 4 removable bays though
<popey> no, i have rust in those
<bigcalm> directhex: oh, which one?
<popey> i dont care about rust on old slow servers
<directhex> bigcalm, kingston hyperx
<bigcalm> Gah, going to any site for the 1st time today is taking forever to connect
<bigcalm> What do I blame for that?
<directhex> DNS caching
<bigcalm> If I esc and then f5, things load quickly
<gord> switch to google dns?
<gord> 8.8.8.8
<bigcalm> gord: as far as I am aware, I'm already using google for dns
<bigcalm> I should check
<bigcalm> directhex: http://www.ebuyer.com/168671-kingston-2-5-to-3-5-hard-drive-bracket-and-screws-sna-br-35 ?
<gord> virgin does a bunch of proxying for content right? maybe on their side?
<bigcalm> gord: 8 is one, is the other 4?
<directhex> bigcalm,  http://www.amazon.com/Kingston-SandForce-Technology-SH100S3B-240G/dp/B005C95NCY
<bigcalm> I forget which is the primary and which is the secondary
<davmor2> bigcalm: I use 208.67.222.222, 208.67.220.220
<gord> i think the secondary is 8.8.4.4
<gord> this is off the top of my head though
 * diplo agress with gord 
<bigcalm> Not 4.4.4.4?
<gord> no
<bigcalm> Ok
<diplo> 8.8.4.4
<bigcalm> Changed in my router, hopefully will see a change now
<bigcalm> directhex: I see.
<dogmatic69> I an doing 'for file in `ls /some/path`' command in terminal. how can I do echo "Some$varThing" that is like "Some<var>Thing"
<dogmatic69> actual command: for plugin in `ls Core`; do cake test $plugin "All$pluginTests"; done
<dogmatic69> so it should run cake test $plugin "All<plugin>Tests"
<andylockran> dogmatic69:
<dogmatic69> :/
<andylockran> TEST='andy'; echo 'test' $TEST ' test'
<dogmatic69> ah
<dogmatic69> cool, thanks
<jacobw> meowth
<gord> jacobw is a pokeman now?
<diplo> Rather quiet this afternoon, everyone taking a siesta?
<diplo> Beautiful outside, went out to read at lunchtime, very nearly didn't come back in
<diplo> Dropped off twice :)
<jacobw> gord: that's right
 * jacobw is watching 'castle' right now
<diplo>  I love the show jacobw :)
<diplo> What series ?
<kvarley> What does "depmod -a" do?
<diplo> From what I've just read up it compiles a list of dependancies from /etc/modules.conf
<kvarley> diplo: Ok ty
<diplo> which modprobe uses to load modules
<kvarley> diplo: Ah that'll be it. I'm looking to enable my wifi and its on a guide I'm reading
<diplo> :)
<diplo> Never had to use it, but seen it mentioned here a few times before
<kvarley> diplo: :) me neither. This is for my MK802, weirdly it can see wifi networks but it won't let me connect
<diplo> Probably like an issue i used to have on older laptops having issues with wpa/wpa2
<diplo> unless i updated them
<directhex> i have paid out for a crashplan subscription.
<directhex> ALL MY MONEY :O
<gord> crashplan?
<diplo> I just don't think im important enough for that :)
<directhex> gord, cloud storage thingy
<gord> aha
<bigcalm> Having one of those days
<bigcalm> Wifi router stopped supporting wifi traffic
<bigcalm> After a reboot, it stopped supporting cabled traffic as well
 * bigcalm shakes fist at Linksys
<diplo> :P
<bigcalm> (Says cisco, but it's linksys)
<bigcalm> Now back to using the VM superhub as a router again
<davmor2> bigcalm: I now feel your pain
<bigcalm> :)
<bigcalm> Oh look, the superhub is in no rush to support wifi traffic either now
<davmor2> bigcalm: apparently on 20meg they used a different network stack to the 30+ so now I have a super hub I've been switched over for my 60meg and it's pig slow and completely unreliable
 * bigcalm wonders if an EMP was allowed into the house
<bigcalm> davmor2: I thought you said it had improved since you got 60mb?
<davmor2> bigcalm: no it improved on the 20meg
<davmor2> bigcalm: this is the first day of using the 60meg
<bigcalm> Ah
<davmor2> bigcalm: after 5 calls to them they now realise that there is a fault
<bigcalm> \o/
<davmor2> bigcalm: I got a notice call off them saying it was fixed I had 60meg for 2 seconds at least and then back on the phone to them :D
<andylockran> ouch
<davmor2> andylockran: why the ouch?
<dogmatic69> found out how to stop recruiters sending spam
<dogmatic69> */1 * * * * /var/www/frameworks/cakephp2/app/Console/cake -app /var/www/sites/aqua.dev/public_html email
<bigcalm> How does that stop spam?
<dogmatic69> wrote a little cake script to send out some mails. after 15 minutes I got a reply saying 'I can remove you if you wish', after 35 minutes I got one saying 'I have removed you from our list'
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: the script sends out a mail
<dogmatic69> back to the offender
<bigcalm> How sweet
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: http://bin.cakephp.org/view/389329614
<ali1234> damn, why does it always fall to me to actually go and do the research before spreading loads of FUD?
<bigcalm> Because you care?
<andylockran> davmor2: re: you having to spend more time on the phone to VM
<davmor2> andylockran: ah right yeap when it works it is fantastic
<andylockran> ta ra all
<andylockran> catch you tomorrow!
<andylockran> :D
<AlanBell> anyone got multitouch gestures like pinch working on a laptop touchpad?
<AlanBell> would it be good if that worked and was plumbed in to compiz enhanced zoom?
<nperry> AlanBell, I have got twofinger scroll working..
<AlanBell> yeah, that works fine
<gord> AlanBell, iirc you need a properly utouch supported multitouch laptop. which i think is maybe just apple ones and a few select others
<AlanBell> mine did at one point do three finger window dragging
<AlanBell> and I know the hardware supports more stuff
<popey> asus ultrabook does it
<popey> and the magic trackpad
<gord> might be able to get that working then
<AlanBell> it occured to me that if super+mousewheel for zoom isn't allowed then pinch might be sufficiently intuitive that it would get in
<popey> its not that it isnt allowed
<popey> it's just been disabled to prevent accidentally getting stuck in it.
<AlanBell> yeah, poor phrasing
<gord> i think utouch enabled applications would want pinch all to themselves
<popey> could it not be enabled in the same screen as speech etc?
<issyl0> Hrm.
<issyl0> grub error on 12.04 (a clean install): hd0 out of disk.
<MartijnVdS> "out of disk"?
<MartijnVdS> nothing elsed?
<MartijnVdS> -d
<issyl0> No.
<MartijnVdS> StrÃ¤nge
<issyl0> :-)
<MartijnVdS> what kind of hw is this?
<issyl0> Laptop, about three years old...
<MartijnVdS> nothing else on it?
<issyl0> Nope.
<MartijnVdS> hmmm
<MartijnVdS> hmmmmmmm
<popey> google says you're not alone
<issyl0> No.  :-(
<nperry> issyl0, have you chrooted in and re-ran grub-install?
<MartijnVdS> popey: do the googles have a workaround?
<issyl0> nperry: No?
<issyl0> nperry: What does chroot mean?
 * issyl0 ignorant.
<MartijnVdS> issyl0: it changes the root fs :)
<issyl0> Ah.
<MartijnVdS> issyl0: only for the process you're starting and its children, of course
<MartijnVdS> so you could do:
<MartijnVdS> chroot /target
<matti> Hi MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> (it starts a shell by default)
<MartijnVdS> matti: hi
<MartijnVdS> issyl0: everything that's "/" in that shell is actually /target
 * issyl0 confused.
<matti> Hi issyl0
 * issyl0 might reinstall and see if that fixes it.
<matti> issyl0: grub confuses everybody
<issyl0> (It has booted twice before with this install!)
<issyl0> At least twice...
<MartijnVdS> matti: except maybe mjg59
<issyl0> matti: Hehe.  How are you?
<matti> MartijnVdS: No, he just pretends.
<matti> issyl0: Good, you? :)
<issyl0> matti: Stressed.
<matti> issyl0: Oh, dear. Why?
<issyl0> matti: Life.
<MartijnVdS> issyl0: all the diodes down your left side?
<MartijnVdS> </lame>
<issyl0> MartijnVdS: Hmmmm?
<MartijnVdS> issyl0: Marvin (the paranoid android) said that :)
<issyl0> I have no idea... :-)
<matti> issyl0: :/
<bigcalm> issyl0: a Hitch Hiker's Guide To The Galaxy reference. Good book :)
 * christel tickles issyl0 
<issyl0> bigcalm: Ah.  I've never watched it or seen the book.
 * issyl0 decides to reinstall.  :-)
<issyl0> christel: Hello.  :-)
<MartijnVdS> issyl0: http://open.spotify.com/user/martijnvds/playlist/2UHNlhHRMcziirEn188343
<MartijnVdS> issyl0: background music
<christel> hai hai :)
<bigcalm> issyl0: originally a bbc radio 4 play. Then a series of 5 books. Then a TV series. Then a film
<issyl0> Ahh.
<issyl0> A bit like War of the Worlds then.
<bigcalm> issyl0: hopefully you'll bump into it in some form or another one day :)
<bigcalm> Time for me to play mr taxi driver
<bigcalm> Toodles :)
<MartijnVdS> issyl0: except it's a complete spoof of all SF that ever was :)
<issyl0> OK.
<MartijnVdS> so it's meant to be funny, not scary (like WotW)
<MartijnVdS> at least, I hope it was.. or I might have read it all wrong.
<BigRedS> Is there a page I can go to to see what the latest version of Wordpress I can run on a given version of PHP is?
<BigRedS> Ah, never mind, I can go as far as 3.1 apparently
<MartijnVdS> heh http://fakescience.tumblr.com/post/25506679258
<bigcalm_xoom> Hey peeps :)
<MartijnVdS> \o
<bigcalm_XOOM> Right, should be all registered to use this nick now
 * bigcalm_XOOM tickles pope
<bigcalm_XOOM> davmor2: connection any better yet?
<davmor2> bigcalm_XOOM: Nope just disconnected me it's going so slow
<DJones> bigcalm_XOOM: Have you registered bigcalm_ipad or bigcalm_kogan ?
<bigcalm_XOOM> Im spending the evening in the car park of the Queen Elizabeth hospital in Birmingham
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm_XOOM: hmm.. in the car park?
<bigcalm_XOOM> Thankfully have a really good H signal here
<DJones> Everything ok?
<davmor2> bigcalm_XOOM: erm that's not good
<bigcalm_XOOM> Hayley is visiting a friend. I am playing taxi man for the evening :)
<DJones> ah
<bigcalm_XOOM> The building is _huge_
<bigcalm_XOOM> DJones: not registered. Not much point until I put irc on them. And I've given the kogan to my mum :)
<bigcalm_xoom> Silly T-Mobile
<mcphail> bigcalm_xoom: bet I'm getting more lag on O2 than you are
<bigcalm_xoom> Our thrones of diamonds are too pointy ;)
<ali1234> hmmmmmmmmmmm uefi
<andatche> anyone any idea what EC2 metadata I need to prevent cloudinit growing the root partition/filesystem on first boot?
<andatche> the documentation is woeful
<ali1234> does anyone want to help me puzzle through setting up UEFI/OVMF in KVM and then actually try signing a bootloader with multiple certificates and booting it on two systems with different platform keys?
<ali1234> see http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/tianocore/index.php?title=OVMF and http://sourceforge.net/projects/edk2/files/General%20Documentation/SigningUefiImages%20-v1dot0.pdf/download
<AlanBell> go ali1234 \o/
<ali1234> i said help not encourage :/
<ali1234> i have no idea what i'm doing
<AlanBell> I just want to be a cheerleader
<AlanBell> with pompoms
<ali1234> *\o/*
<AlanBell> I am led to believe that Daviey knows a thing or two about UEFI/OVMF
<AlanBell> and mhall119 seems keen to poke about in this area
<ali1234> if you look at that second link it gives actual screenshots of how to enroll keys and stuff. it's a good indication of how these bioses will probably work
<ali1234> of particular interest is that it's more tha "yes or no" when running a particular piece of code
<ali1234> it can also be cnfigured to ask the user if the code isn't signed
<ali1234> which is nice
<ali1234> basically the point where we're at is that the spec should in theory allow this, but the implementation doesn't
<ali1234> now i'm not entirely convinced that the implementation doesn't allow it, mainly because two hours ago we all thought the spec didn't allow it either
<ali1234> and also because without multiple chains/roots the whole thing seems unworkable and pointless
<ali1234> but if i'm honest, two hours ago i didn't know anything about it at all
<AlanBell> yeah, I was *very* surprised to see Matthew Garrett not knowing that bit of the spec backwards
<AlanBell> and you would think that if the spec did it but the implementation didn't then they would file a bug against the implementation
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> and first step to filing a bug is... steps to reproduce!
<ali1234> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=BF2CCE9263284D428840004653A28B6E6E90DC%40SHSMSX102.ccr.corp.intel.com&forum_name=edk2-devel
<AlanBell> yup
<ali1234> possibly related? ^
<mhall119> AlanBell: pong
<AlanBell> hi mhall119
<mhall119> hiya
<AlanBell> meet ali1234 (you already met on G+)
<AlanBell> we are talking UEFI
<ali1234> i think we already "met" on OMG ubuntu... probably got off to a bad start :)
<mgdm> I hate that site soley based on its name
<mhall119> hi ali1234
<ali1234> hello. :)
<mhall119> Alistair Buxton I presume?
<ali1234> yes
 * mhall119 says with his best fake British accent
<mhall119> which has improved significantly thanks to a season of Dr. Who on Netflix :)
<ali1234> so, i was reading about OVMF, which is a UEFI implementation you can run in KVM, based on tiano
<ali1234> or tianocore... not sure how they are related
<mhall119> ok
<ali1234> anyway it supports secure boot with enrollment UI and everything
<andatche> the documentation for cloud init really is terrible :(
<andatche> worse than upstart
<ali1234> http://sourceforge.net/projects/edk2/files/General%20Documentation/SigningUefiImages%20-v1dot0.pdf/download for an overview
<mgdm> secure boot... of a VM?
<ali1234> mgdm: yes, it's for testing of course
<ali1234> so i'm inerested in actually trying to test out the concepts of multiple platform keys and trust chains in a single executable, but basically i have no idea what i'm doing
<mhall119> btw, is there a Tony Whitmore in here?
<mgdm> mhall119: occasionally
<mhall119> ali1234: that's cool, I have slightly less idea of what you're going :)
<AlanBell> Tonytiger when he is
<mgdm> mhall119: 'tonytiger'
<mhall119> cool, thanks
<ali1234> ah i think last time i saw him he was saying "i don't like IRC, i prefer the ML"
<AlanBell> he is totally online right now :)
<mhall119> ali1234: basically everything I know about SecureBoot I learned from reading the various specs and coverage in the past few days
<ali1234> mhall119: yes, me too
<AlanBell> mhall119: that doesn't put you as far behind the red hat gurus as one might hope
<mhall119> in my younger days, that would have been enough to convince me that I understood something
<ali1234> i know if i bash my head against this for long enough then eventually i will get a result, but there's a lot of peripheral stuff... for example, i've never used KVM before, nor PKCS in general
<mhall119> I've done PKCS stuff before, with openssl, but not enough to really understand it
<ali1234> i once set up a CA for self signing some certificates to use in openvpn, but i used the easy_ca script and followed a guide and didn't know what i was doing
<ali1234> so yeah
<mhall119> there's an easy_ca script?
<mhall119> I spent weeks learning openssl's command line
<ali1234> http://www.openssl.org/docs/apps/CA.pl.html
<ali1234> actually that's not even it
<ali1234> easyCA is part of penvpn and is even easier than that
<ali1234> anyway before even worrying about that, first step is to get OVMF running
<bigcalm_x00m> I think I've fallen asleep twice so far
<bigcalm_x00m> Should have brought my laptop, not just a tablet
<AlanBell> virtualbox has an EFI tickbox
<bigcalm_x00m> Ooo, time to go :)
<ali1234> AlanBell: yeah but i don't think it's "comlete"
<ali1234> +p
<AlanBell> I have a VM with an efi shell running
<ali1234> does it look like the one in OVMF pdf?
<ali1234> virtualbox would probably be easier, what with it's simple USB support
<AlanBell> it looks a *lot* like the one in the pdf
<ali1234> ok, got it too
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ubuntu UK Podcast] S05E09  The Hitch Hikers - http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2012/06/20/s05e09-the-hitch-hikers/
<ali1234> whenever i google for secure boot stuff all i get is people arguing about whether it will or won't break linux, and no actual hard facts :(
<ali1234> maybe i should use bing instead
<tonytiger> Hello?
<ali1234> i don't see any commands in this to enroll keys or set anything involving security, so i don't think this supports secure boot emulation
<ali1234> otoh: http://www.virtualbox.org/svn/vbox/trunk/src/VBox/Devices/EFI/Firmware2/VBoxPkg/VBoxPkg.fdf
<AlanBell> o/ tonytiger
<AlanBell> mhall119: meet tonytiger :)
<mhall119> o/
<czajkowski> mhall119: see pm
<directhex> backin' up for ssditude tomorrow :)
<AlanBell> "Secure Boot is configured from setup by selecting Device Manager and then Secure Boot Configuration from the Devices List."
<AlanBell> any idea what that means ali1234
<ali1234> context?
<ali1234> Device Manager as in Windows Device manager?
<AlanBell> I want to get from the shell with the yellow shell> prompt to the ncurses style blue screens for configuring secure boot stuff
<ali1234> well
<AlanBell> page 24 of the PDF
<ali1234> i'm just setting up qemu... then i'll see what happens
<directhex> but what key is the emulated firmware of the emulated pci devices signed with?
<ali1234> whut
<ali1234> the efi firmware isn't signed
<AlanBell> directhex: you mean the emulated graphics device?
<directhex> AlanBell: and networking, but yes
<ali1234> hmmmm
<AlanBell> how much of a driver does text mode boot require?
<ali1234> virtually none
<ali1234> pretty much you write characters into a standard address (same as serial)
<ali1234> ok, got this working in qemu
<AlanBell> nice
<ali1234> it just dumps you at the same shell as virtualbox
<AlanBell> did you do build âD SECURE_BOOT_ENABLE
<ali1234> no?
<ali1234> i used the binary release
<AlanBell> ah, exit from the shell
<AlanBell> then you get to the menu system
<ali1234> ah!
<ali1234> nice one
<ali1234> are you still using virtualbox?
<ali1234> so... my "devices list" is empty. i guess i need to recompile
<AlanBell> mine too
<ali1234> also i had to -no-kvm to make this work... so it's incredibly slow
 * andatche sigh
<andatche> damn cloud-init
<Azelphur> lol, Linux torvalds comments on nvidia now in gif form \o/ http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/files/2012/06/v40g6.gif
<zleap> you mean Linus
<Azelphur> oops, yup
<ali1234> lol he looks really mad
<ali1234> edk2 is huge
<dwatkins> Azelphur: I do that every time I go to type his name...
<dwatkins> in other news, Edinburgh now has tiny police cars: http://i.imgur.com/YjMTh.jpg
<Azelphur> dwatkins: haha
<ali1234> edk2 building.....
<ali1234> i get the feeling this will take a while
<ali1234> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UEFI-howto hmm
<ali1234> that pretty much has everything i've read so far in one handy place
<ali1234> the only thing missing from that is the extra build command to get secure boot support
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UEFI-howto?action=info so who is manjo I wonder
<AlanBell> currently in #ubuntu-server and #ubuntu-devel
<ali1234> anyone know how i get bold on ubuntu wiki?
<bigcalm> Ahoy! I have returned
<bigcalm> ali1234: do something daring?
<ali1234> well i think this whole project is pretty daring given my (lack of) experience on the subject
<BigRedS> ali1234: if it's mediawiki then with 's
<BigRedS> ''emboldened text''
<ali1234> '' is italic, ''' is bold
<BigRedS> Oh yeah
<BigRedS> Gah
<ali1234> cheers anyway
<BigRedS> Mediaiwki syntax is rapidly getting to the same state as bash syntax in my mind
<BigRedS> where I just keep trying likely arrangements of characters until something sticks
<ali1234> damn it says right under the edit window how to do it as well :)
<AlanBell> BigRedS: it is moinmoin
<ali1234> um, ok, that doesn't work :(
<ali1234> File/directory not found in workspace
<ali1234> 	/home/al/uefi/build/edk2/CryptoPkg/Library/OpensslLib/openssl-0.9.8w/e_os.h
<ali1234> oh ok, you need to manually put openssl in there
<ali1234> seems to be working now
<ali1234> well that's interesting
<ali1234> the required fv image size 0x524828 exceeds the set fv image size 0x500000
<ali1234> it builds correctly without secure boot :(
<ali1234> http://feishare.com/efimail/messages/20110324-1024-Re__edk2__Error_about_building_OVMF_on_Fedora_8-Bei_Guan.html
<ali1234> ok it built!
<ali1234> yay i have Secure Boot Configuration
<AlanBell> \o/
<AlanBell> screenshots or it didn't happen of course :)
<mgdm> ali1234: in the time between you saying you wanted to do something I was certain nobody could be bothered with, and actually doing it, I have been in the pub
<mgdm> ali1234: I'm impressed that you got it :)
<ali1234> i'm not anywhere near done yet
<ali1234> i still have to figure out how to make two platform keys, enroll them in two virtual machines, and then somehow sign an executable with both of them
<ali1234> but this is a start anyway
<ali1234> ok so the wiki now has everything you need to reproduce everything i've done so far
<ali1234> "UEFI Secure Boot must be configured for each invocation of OVMF since variables are not currently persistent across OVMF invocations."
<ali1234> argh
#ubuntu-uk 2012-06-21
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Create Your First App For Ubuntu - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/06/21/create-your-first-app-for-ubuntu/
<christel> good morning
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Accomplishments 0.2: One Week Later - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/06/21/ubuntu-accomplishments-0-2-one-week-later/
<soreau> Can anyone else confirm clicking on any experiment here http://www.chromeexperiments.com/webgl/ goes to a broken page of errors?
<AlanBell> soreau: yeah, that looks broken
<soreau> AlanBell: ok thanks
<DJones> soreau: Testing on chrome in windows seems to be ok, no errors showing that I can see
<DJones> This is what I see http://imagebin.org/217311
<soreau> DJones: Maybe you didn't get what I said.. 'clicking on any experiment here.. broken..'
<AlanBell> DJones: click a thingie like Chaos to Perfection
<DJones> Ah yes, definately broken
<soreau> alright, thanks for checking
<diplo> Morning all
<kaushal> Hi
<popey> morning
<daubers> o/
<diplo> Busy in here this morning
<diplo> :)
<bigcalm> Hey kids :)
<Gary> I drove into work today, felt so lazy
<bigcalm> Gary: you came!
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
<oimon> morning, why does installing ubuntu-restricted-extras fail due to an authentication error?
<oimon> (from the sw centre rather than apt-get)
<JamesTait> oimon: If it's a package authentication error, you might try apt-get update first.
<BigRedS> as in an http 4xx?
<andylockran> morning
<bigcalm> BigRedS: that sounds like a drink
<bigcalm> 404 Beer not found
<oimon> hmm , i've done it by hand on command line instead...
<nperry> Morn o/
<JamesTait> IIRC, and I might not have the stack quite right, but Software Centre is a front-end for aptdaemon, which is a service layer on the same dpkg back-end as apt-get/aptitude/synaptic/wajig.
<JamesTait> Something like that, anyway.
<oimon> SC complains about untrsuted sources but has no way of saying yes, please go ahead
<oimon> (on a fresh install, no additional repos added)
<JamesTait> I rarely use SC myself, so I guess it's not surprising that I haven't seen this.  Sounds like something other people must have seen though, so there may be a bug report about it.
<bigcalm> Got this in some change yesterday. Apparently retailing for around 32 quid :D http://www.thelondoncoincompany.com/coinimages/1338676889-2011_Capital_Cities_of_the_UK_Cardiff_One_Pound_Proof_Coin_R.jpg
<diplo> I'd be selling that then bigcalm :)
 * bigcalm adds it to his collection of in circulation coins that look slightly different
<bigcalm> diplo: the face value of my collection is about 35 quid now I think. Guess I could get more if I was like that
<oimon> bug 705988
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 705988 in software-center (Ubuntu) "[master] Untrusted packages can not be installed" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/705988
<oimon> bigcalm, humans are sentimental
<oimon> sell the quid for 32 quid and then you have 32 shiny things to look at
<diplo> Not sure if any of you are up on laptop hardware, but anyone recommend any laptops for the Â£300-400 mark
<diplo> no ubuntu going on it as of yet, for my sister
<oimon> got mine from dell outlet at around 450 and still feels new after 4 years
<diplo> More recommendations of something you may have bought
<diplo> Ive debated the outlet oimon but when i last looked the warranty sucked on there ?
<oimon> i got a 3yr warranty on mine
<oimon> a lot of machines on there are business ones
<diplo> oh and the other thing, was looking for myself
<oimon> it's treated the same as normal warranty
<diplo> it said you may not get 100% of what is on the site
<diplo> I was looking at a Lattitude E58* Series i think
<diplo> Said it may or may not come with this or that
<oimon> i've bought many from outlet for a stingey employer , they've been fine
<diplo> Cool, will take a look
<diplo> And you are talking about my employer
<diplo> :P
<diplo> Funny thing is, they wouldn't spend hardly anything on a laptop for me, but a few weeks/month later we went to visit HO for a 2 day stay over and we spent more money out drinking on the company in one night than they would spend on a laptop for me?!?!?
<BigRedS> diplo: night out benefits everybody, laptop only you
<diplo> This is the same everytime we go up though
<diplo> I think everyone ( only 15 of us ) would prefer a year of not going out at all and all get decent hardware :)
<BigRedS> haha, yeah
<BigRedS> but management would prefer to get drunk :)
<diplo> Oh aint that the truth, think the MD is close to alcoholic
<diplo> I have had thejoys of making RPM's the last couple of days for CentOS 4/5/6
<diplo> Why can't we move :(
<bigcalm> A new Soap Box ep! Yay!
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<bigcalm> Howdy brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi bigcalm
<oimon> when stuff crashes in ubuntu now, we don't get feedback on the bug id , how do you find out if it's a known bug?
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> Any way to add multiple users on linux server using bash script?
<diplo> Using a for loop and loading from a file or array ?
<BigRedS> for i in <list of users>; do useradd -m $i; done
<bigcalm> Which will use defaults and not set passwords
<bigcalm> You might want to flesh out the useradd command a little more
<BigRedS> yeah, I wrote a ridiculous oneliner the other day for parsing passwd and shadow on one server and sshing in to another and adding all the users
<oimon> anyone know the web page that lists the most common ubuntu crashes?
<oimon> ah https://errors.ubuntu.com/
<diplo> :)
<kaushal> BigRedS: Any example?
<kaushal> diplo: Any sample script?
<BigRedS> I can only find it before I fixed it and I can't remember what it needed...
<popey> oimon, you don't basically
<popey> oimon, you can unpack the crash and manually file a bug though
<BigRedS> kaushal: http://paste.debian.net/175607/
<BigRedS> note that it neither works nor is particularly robust, though :)
<kaushal> BigRedS: so that will add user and set password?
<BigRedS> wait, that's when I only just started looking at getting passwords
<BigRedS> no, it wont
<BigRedS> about half an hour later that started doing that
<BigRedS> when I fixed it, but I can't remember how and it's not in my history
<oimon> popey, shame :( i would like to know if my crashing issue is being worked on or resolved somewhere
<popey> oimon, what's crashing/
<popey> ?
<oimon> openbox
<oimon> every 15 mins
<popey> if you install apport-retrace then when it crashes it will prompt you to retrace it which you can attach to a bug
<popey> or it could be one of them https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openbox/+bugs
<popey> or run "sudo ubuntu-bug /var/crash/crashfilename.crash
<popey> which is easier
<popey> and lets you file a new bug
<oimon> it's either ubuntu software center or thunderbird mail causing it...
<oimon> i mean notifications
<MooDoo> hello all
<dogmatic69> I have encrypted home on a server, and when ssh'ing into it, the encrypted folder is unmounted while still logged on
<dogmatic69> how can I fix this?
<dogmatic69> its only started happening recently
<davmor2> Morning all
<dogmatic69> o/
<bigcalm> Morning
<AlanBell> I should boot back into a unity session at some point
<AlanBell> gnome-session-fallback is so nice though :(
<dogmatic69> Just found this bug 691237
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 691237 in sudo (Debian) "Encrypted home gets unmounted after each sudo operation." [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/691237
<dogmatic69> sure enough, sudo is causing it :/
<diplo> dogmatic69: I guess that's why I don't encrypt things, just in case something goes wrong :/
<diplo> AlanBell: Let me know how that goes :)
<diplo> :D
<dogmatic69> this home encrypted stuff is the biggest mistake ever
<dogmatic69> now that bug was marked as fixed
<diplo> I understand the reasoning behind it, I guess i don't trust it enough or myself to make sure that I have backups of stuff if it all goes wrong :)
<BigRedS> yeah, I have found the priorities as regards linux-on-the-desktop downright hilarious recently
<BigRedS> encrypted home, two brand-new DEs, really quick boot
<BigRedS> but still we're using network mangler and resume from hibernat takes about three weeks
<gord> i thought we as a world had agreed that hibernate was useless by this point?
<BigRedS> Oh, good
<BigRedS> well, I'd like to use it sometimes, but if we're all agreed that we're not using it any more that's a close second :)
<gord> we don't even offer it as an option in ubuntu iirc
<BigRedS> Oh, cool. The only thing I'm likely to hibernate is running Debian
<bigcalm> It's there in xubuntu
<BigRedS> I think it's still in the 'what to do when I press the power button' options in gnome3 there
<BigRedS> bigcalm: yeah, the mechanism'll still be there, just no button for it in Unity
<bigcalm> Ah
<davmor2> bigcalm: Hey dude
<davmor2> czajkowski: Prodington Prod Morning
<Pendulum> davmor2: she's on holiday
<matti> issyl0: :)
 * bigcalm reboots his parents' server and hopes that they aren't actually home and using it
<davmor2> Pendulum: Well she'll come back to a bruise from all the prodding ;)
<bigcalm> The server came back, that's good :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: it should drop if a user is logged in anyway and it warns users to save work and log out :P
<bigcalm> davmor2: yeah, you think my parents use their server for more than CIFS ;)
<Myrtti> *humdidum*
<popey> bug 1015969
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1015969 in overlay-scrollbar (Ubuntu) "scrollbars inside windows aren't grabbable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1015969
<popey> anyone fancy confirming?
<popey> (btw you're famous) (see screenshots)
<davmor2> popey: again is there a reason you started using xchat I thought you were a irrssi man through and through?  You might of answered yesterday and I missed it though
<popey> i am an irssi fan
<popey> fancied a change
<bigcalm> Just checked my coin collection. I was wrong in my previous estimate of face value. It's actually Â£55.99
<bigcalm> Oh what I could do with that...
<nperry> popey, I will confirm for you.. Doesn't happen when not full screen.
<popey> it does here
<popey> i am trying to drag left and right
<popey> not up and down
<Myrtti> what's the eggtimer app people use nowadays?
<Myrtti> I tried to install the one that's in the repositories but it refuses due to a dependency problem
<Dave2> I use my microwave.
<Dave2> (It's all I use my microwave for)
<dwatkins> I use my phone.
<dwatkins> I also have a little timer I can carry around and clip on to things or use the magnet to put it on the fridge, radiator etc.
<bigcalm> I use 'Stopwatch & Timer' on my phone
<Myrtti> well I'm more interested because there's a game that requires action every six hours, three hours or half an hour
<Myrtti> and I'd want several of these alarms
<Myrtti> and I know the old gnome applet did that, but it seems uninstallable
<AlanBell> popey: you never could drag left and right on internal scrollbars, you have to sneak up on them from the left and grab the panel bar when it isn't looking
<popey> is there an existing bug?
<AlanBell> bug 999982 but I thought there was a better one
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 999982 in ayatana-scrollbar "gtk pane should be resizable by dragging overlay scrollbar" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/999982
<AlanBell> might be in unity or something rather than overlayscrollbar
<AlanBell> or ayatana-scrollbar
<AlanBell> or it might be that way by design
<oimon> popey , there might be a dupe on that xchat one somewhere since i had that issue too, and either reported it or me too'd it. however, me too'ing history isn't stored in lp is it ?
<popey> i have reported it as a dupe
<popey> and contacted the upstream dev to find out who can fix it
<oimon> :D
<oimon> popey seems to be the way to get bugs fixed
<popey> not really, I just looked up who to poke and poke them
<popey> anyone else could do that
<gord> can we start calling it a bug that xchat copies anything you select? single most annoying thing it does
<gord> need to paste something into irc? best not click on the xchat chat window first, it'll get wiped
<directhex> gord, paste buffer is regular X behaviour
<oimon> gord, never noticed that issue
<directhex> saving PRIMARY's contents into CLIPBOARD, now that's nonstandard... probably a cheap workaround for OSes with only one clipboard
<gord> i really don't care what is regilar X behaviour, almost all regular x behaviour is really annoying
<oimon> can't the clipbaord to break with xchat
<AlanBell> sounds like a bug, selecting stuff should just be what middle click paste does
<oimon> select on webpage, copy, click xchat and then paste or middle click - works
<directhex> AlanBell, indeed. freedesktop.org says CLIPBOARD should only be set with explicit edit/copy action
<gord> as far as i am aware its by design, there are windows builds that only exist to get rid of this thing. but no linux builds
<directhex> oimon, that's also wrong behaviour :)
<oimon> gord you mean double click in xchat copies it?
<AlanBell> directhex: not entirely wrong, just two different things surely
<gord> i mean you click on the main text window
<directhex> AlanBell, goes against the FDO spec
<directhex> AlanBell, highlighting text should fill in PRIMARY. edit/copy should fill in CLIPBOARD. middle click should paste PRIMARY. edit/paste should paste CLIPBOARD. there shouldn't be any overlap
<gord> it might be a selection in the main text window, irc moves so tis easy to accidentally select
<directhex> i.e. middle click should not paste CLIPBOARD
<directhex> and highlight should not populate CLIPBOARD
<directhex> and nobody has a clue what SECONDARY is for, even Xorg developers
<AlanBell> directhex: yeah, but if you select something (and populate PRIMARY) then copy your selection (populating CLIPBOARD) then go to xchat and discover that middle click and ctrl+v have a similar effect then that is OK
<directhex> AlanBell, the problem cited by gord is that if you go to firefox, and copy the url (into CLIPBOARD), then click on your xchat window, if you accidentally highlighted any text, then paste pastes that new text, because xchat incorrectly populates CLIPBOARD with highlights
<directhex> you should never be able to "accidentally" overwrite CLIPBOARD.
<AlanBell> agreed, I was saying oimon's scenario was normal
<AlanBell> 13:28 < oimon> select on webpage, copy, click xchat and then paste or middle click - works
<oimon> works for me. if i don't click copy, then primary and secondary are different, as expected
<directhex> you're not using SECONDARY. that's the third paste buffer :p
<oimon> except if you double click/highlight a word in xchat
<AlanBell> ooh, there is something wrong gord
<AlanBell> oh, no there isn't I was failing to copy with ctrl+shift+v from a terminal
<AlanBell> s/v/c/
<popey> it was fixed in 2006
<directhex> http://standards.freedesktop.org/clipboards-spec/clipboards-latest.txt
<AlanBell> ah, selecting stuff in xchat does populate the clipboard
<popey>         /* If the entry owns PRIMARY, setting the new text will clear PRIMARY;
<popey>          * so we need to re-set PRIMARY after setting the text.
<popey>          * See bug #345356 and bug #347067.
<popey>          */
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 345356 in darkroom (Ubuntu) "typo in description " [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/345356
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 347067 in udftools (Ubuntu) "package udftools None [modified: /var/lib/dpkg/info/udftools.list] failed to install/upgrade: subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 1" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/347067
<popey> that bit
<popey> stupid bot
<BigRedS> aw, you'll hurt its feelings
<gord> there is something wrong because its bleeding annoying, whatever the rationale :P
<diplo> Seems a massive outage of 21CN :/
<MartijnVdS> popey: that vim clutch is COOL
<popey> its something
<popey> not sure it's "cool" :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: I have a few coworkers who want to build/try it
<popey> hah
<nperry> If only sublime text didn't exist.. I would go back to using VIM.
<BigRedS> I keep being pointed at sublime
<BigRedS> but apparently it doesn't work in a terminal
<nperry> BigRedS, it works for me in terminal.
<BigRedS> Oh! Every time I ask I'm told it's a gui app
<directhex> sublime? i want something better than limes, not worse.
<nperry> BigRedS, it is a gui app - I thought you meant it couldn't be ran from terminal to "gksu sublime /etc/apt/sources.list" for example
<BigRedS> oh!
<BigRedS> no, I can't ssh somewhere and run it
<nperry> No you can't
<BigRedS> directhex: hohoho
<BigRedS> Actually, I'm blatantly going to reuse that
<diplo> nperry: Have you bought it ?
<nperry> diplo, No I havne't
<diplo> Seems quite a nice UI, just giving it ago now
<nperry> Kind of regret not doing the summer solstice this year :<
<BigRedS> 'doing'?
 * Monotoko hears the audible sound of /dev/null
<bigcalm> nperry: it happened without you having to do anything
<nperry> Yeah, but the whole going to stonehenge thing to see the sunrise.
<BigRedS> Ah
<BigRedS> do it in the winter
<BigRedS> Summer solstice is for not doing things :)
<Monotoko> plus you have the added benefit of the possible armageddon during the winter... should be fun to watch from stone henge :)
<Monotoko> (I was joking - I don't believe anything is gonna happen... just to clear that up :P)
<AlanBell> there is a car henge next to tower bridge at the moment
<popey> there is?
 * popey is going that way for dinner
<AlanBell> south bank, saw something about it on TV and saw it from the boat yesterday
<directhex> i have an ssd :D
<AlanBell> doctor should be able to sort that out fairly easily directhex
<directhex> 240G sata3 SSD, screwdriver, USB drive caddy, 3.5" adapter, and cables: Â£132.
<Monotoko> AlanBell, that's a bash moment :P
<nperry> directhex, that is a deal, ebay?
<directhex> nperry, nah, some tiny welsh parts vendor
<directhex> nperry, current "next best" is 256gb samsung for Â£144
<diplo> Anyone use jquery UI datepicker in here on website stuff
<nperry> We use it on our internal data management system.
<nperry> But from looking at the demo on http://jqueryui.com/demos/datepicker/ we are just using that source there.
<diplo> Can't get date to display after selecting in picker on IE9 32bit running on 64bit
<diplo> Ever seen that ?
<bigcalm> diplo: yes, I do, quite a bit
<diplo> Seems fairly common error, wondering if anyone has got around it
<bigcalm> diplo: not seen it, but I don't test in IE :D
<diplo> Neither do I/we
 * bigcalm wonders if his windows server has woken up yet
<diplo> normally, but we thought we better see if it works
<diplo> And the only issue so far is datepicker
<diplo> Win7 64bit with 32bit IE9 it breaks.. seen loads of posts but no fixes apart from installing 64bit IE
<nperry> Who tests there website for IE anymore....
<diplo> Not us for the last year or so, I thought I better had
<nperry> Just tell them to use chrome or firefox and mention about god killing cats every time IE is loaded
<diplo> heh, tbh we rarely touch IE.. brand new product and didn't want someone complaining that's all
<nperry> You could go the whole hog and have a story about a poor cat that got killed by god for IE usage.
<bigcalm> VM's SuperHub restarts itself every time you add an IP address to be assigned to a MAC address
<bigcalm> Not optimal
<diplo> Right, I give up searching / trying to fix that
<diplo> IE sucks :)
<diplo> We all knew it, I'm just saying it again
<bigcalm> My windows server doesn't like me visiting websites in IE. Too much hassle to make it otherwise
<diplo> :)
<bigcalm> !ping
<lubotu3> another contentless ping... sigh...
<bigcalm> Oh cheer up, lubotu3
<diplo> bigcalm = bored?
<bigcalm> diplo: maybe a little, but more concerned for my connection
<bigcalm> It's very iffy recently
<diplo> Hasn't it been dodgey for months, remember you complaining about it months ago
<popey> can someone hilight my nick pls?
<Gary> why popey
<popey> hmm
<popey> no notifications
<bigcalm> popey: no notifications?
<popey> correct
<popey> oh, late
<pythoniscodeman> I feel confortable with my way around the terminal bash prompt
<pythoniscodeman> in terms of file nav
<pythoniscodeman> but..how about hard links?
<pythoniscodeman> would they be of any use to me/.
<diplo> AlanBell: Did you think it was the time / setup of xhprof the other day, thinking about giving it a go in the morning
<diplo> it was worth the time*
<AlanBell> yeah, it is really interesting the output of it, but it does take time to understand it
<AlanBell> and then you may or may not be able to do anything about it
<diplo> heh, we have an in house app and I think it maybe worth it as we seem to have quite a few issues where it's either slow or overly heavy usage when it shouldn't be
<diplo> Like to see if i can track it down, but don't want to waste time
<diplo> :)
<daubers> Urgh.... some mass mailing company the high ups decided to use wants me to point a domain at their domain servers... not particularly comfortable with that I have to admit
<diplo> I had to do something like that at my last place daubers
<diplo> Used SPF text records to say it wasn't spam etc
<diplo> I wasn't overly happy, but I was instructed to do so, just took me a long time :)
<daubers> diplo: yeah, really not happy as I was told this wouldn't be necessary
<diplo> Marketing companies suck, give them they are good at selling to the right/wrong people
<diplo> even after being told not to by there own people
<diplo> Run your own dns server daubers, or got to have someone else change for you ?
<daubers> diplo: It's run through the domain provider, but it's all controlled by us here.
<daubers> I like to know that the domains aren't being used for nefarious purposes
<BigRedS> surely they can let you axfr their servers and you can just keep tabs on what's in teh zonefile?
<daubers> considering it took their support people 20 minutes to turn around and say that it needs to point to them or they'll buy the domain of us instead... I'm not sure they're that aware
<diplo> Mine were the same daubers, had what they wanted on paper but didn't know much else
<daubers> diplo: Wasn't dotmailer was it?
<diplo> Honestly can't remember now, been a couple of years since I left
<kvarley> How can I diagnose why I have a "Internal Server Error" on my apache2 install on Ubuntu 12.04?
<BigRedS> kvarley: check the Apache error logs
<BigRedS> /var/log/apache2/error.log unless you put them elsewhere
<BigRedS> what sort of script is it? Perl, PHP, Python, something else?
<BigRedS> (you put them elsewhere with an ErrorLog directive in teh vhost)
<kvarley> BigRedS: How can I force apache to regenerate a default config?
<kvarley> BigRedS: Reinstalling did nothing
<nperry> Hmmm... I wonder if i can plug my 5.1 speakers into this work laptop... The speakers are her are crap
<MartijnVdS> you only have 2 ears
<BigRedS> kvarley: you could purge and then install I suppose
<BigRedS> but if you're getting a 503 error it's probably that Apache works and the script doesn't
<BigRedS> else Apache would simply not run
<BigRedS> or that a setting in apache is wrong, but you might be asking it to do something it doesn't do by default
<BigRedS> what did the log say?
<kvarley> BigRedS: I've got it to work now. I wiped the configuration file and got the default one and it now seems to work
<nperry> Humm it seems if I plug one of the cable it kind of works
<nperry> And the bass works... That'd do me
<BigRedS> kvarley: aha, cool
<davmor2> bigcalm: So 2 hours on the phone to a Virgin tech for him to say yes it's not working correctly sorry I can't help you we'll send you a new hub
 * BigRedS remembers his VM days
<bigcalm> davmor2: this is my 2nd hub as well
<bigcalm> davmor2: seemed to fix a lot
<davmor2> bigcalm: well mine currently on a fresh hardware reset will do 60meg for all of 3 seconds then I'll get anything from 61k to 1meg or a complete stop,  It died on him a total of 8 times
<davmor2> bigcalm: switched it to modem only mode an windows could detect no network
<directhex> well this is a bad start. windows installer won't start
<BigRedS> it's trying to tell you something
<ball> Two questions: 1) What was the last version of Ubuntu that was available (as in .iso image) for PowerPC Macintosh?  b) Are there any other Linux distributions that might suit an old i3 Mac?
<ball> erm... 1) and b)  ;-)
<BigRedS> There is a commuinity-driven PPC Ubuntu port I think
<BigRedS> Debian still does PPC, is an i3 a G3?
<popey> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ports/releases/10.10/release/ 10.10 ppc
<popey> oh, 12.04 too
<directhex> hm, not totally broken, just hella slow
<popey> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/precise/release/
<popey> ^^ ball
<ball> BigRedS: G3
<popey> that directory has an image for G3
<ball> popey: Downloading it now, thanks!
<popey> np
<BigRedS> ball: yeah, I know Lenny ran on G3s, but if Ubuntu's what you're after that's probably better
<ball> I don't know what a Lenny is.
<ball> Ubuntu's probably not what I would choose ideally, but I'm willing to give it a try.
<BigRedS> ah, it's an old version of Debian
<BigRedS> Debian's codenames are Toy Story characters
<ball> I can't picture Lenny.
<ball> Ah, okay, the binoculars.
<BigRedS> yeah
<BigRedS> took me months to work out who squeeze was
<davmor2> directhex: it's windows and you seem surprised it's slow
<ball> I'm impressed that the same .iso worked for Mac and POWER5 boxen.
<ball> Oh dear.
<jacobw> lol @ months to work out squeeze
<MartijnVdS> itym wheezy?
<jacobw> wheezy is obvious
<MartijnVdS> I hope we upgrade faster than we did the squeeze upgrade
<MartijnVdS> (at work)
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<pr0ph3t> how do I connect through a proxy from ubuntu?
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: by configuring it in the proxy preferences?
<pr0ph3t> yes MartijnVdS, that would be the best option I think :-P
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: it's in "System settings" -> Network
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, I'm blind, sorry
<mgdm> so Precise is the first Linux distro I've used on this laptop where the display applet doesn't crash X
<mgdm> but hotplugging a screen *does* crash X
<mgdm> bah :-)
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: as in "you didn't see it before" or "you can't see at all, ever"?
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: cool :)
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: which graphics chipset is that?
<mgdm> MartijnVdS: Radeon X300, IIRC
<pr0ph3t> I was in network settings, but I was looking for proxy preferences under Wireless
<pr0ph3t> but if I'm behind a router I should configure the proxy on the router settings and not on the single linux box right?
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: my Radeon (at work) puts random garbage in windows sometimes
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: unfocus/refocus fixes that.. but till
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: if it's a laptop, I'd do that
<jacobw> i'm not sure how regular debian's releases are now
<jacobw> i've read about the two year cycles, but it took a long time for squeeze to freeze
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, set it up from the router? I have a linux, a windows and a mac box at home, best option is router I guess
<jacobw> does the router have a proxy?
<mgdm> MartijnVdS: actually, scratch that. It shut down the DisplayPort connection, hence is useless
<mgdm> 'DisplayPort link status failed', which doesn't happen in Windows or with the binary driver
<mgdm> Hence, it's useless :(
 * mgdm tries gnome-fallback
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: no you can set it up per "wired" or "wireless" network I think
<MartijnVdS> on the lcient
<pr0ph3t> should I take particular precautions when connecting to a proxy server? Am I risking?
<MartijnVdS> you should trust the proxy's admin, imho
<MartijnVdS> Every website you visit might be seen by the proxy admin
<MartijnVdS> and if they're really evil (and have a trusted CA certificate) they could even read your SSL traffic
<MartijnVdS> so.. only use a proxy if it's really necessary (like on a corporate network where the admins have decided)
<pr0ph3t> it's a free proxy, I don't know the admin unfortunately
<AlanBell> they can also tamper with the traffic and insert adverts and malware if they want to
<pr0ph3t> thanks for your help by the way MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: then don't use it :)
 * AlanBell will be installing quantal tomorrow to test Bug 1010179
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1010179 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "orca reads "replace windows with Ubuntu" when windows was not installed" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1010179
<diplo> Evening all
<directhex> i am on my ssd :)
<directhex> on windows still though
<directhex> ssdbuntu is next
<diplo> Seeing the speed difference already directhex  ?
<nperry> http://changelog.complete.org/archives/7562-i-introduced-my-5-year-old-and-2-year-old-to-startx-and-xmonad-theyre-delighted
<nperry> diplo, you don't see a speed difference from HDD and SSD on Windows :p
<diplo> heh
 * mgdm hugs gnome-fallback
<mgdm> this is just like the old days
 * jacobw is looking at MATE 
<mgdm> jacobw: what's that again? I recognise the name
<ali1234> gnome 2 fork
<mgdm> Ah yes
<ali1234> gnome-fallback is better
<mgdm> I tried Cinnamon, which was nice enough, but this fallback mode is even better
<BigRedS> I tried cinnamon at fosdem
<jacobw> i've come to the conclusion that fallback was all i needed before
<BigRedS> it felt like 2001 :)
<diplo> I was using cinnamon for a few weeks
<diplo> But it would crash out of nowwhere for me
<ali1234> cinnamon does not actually fix any of the problems with gnome shell
<ali1234> it just throws a task bar and start menu on top of it
<brobostigon> i am happy with stright gnome-shell, yes, some bits need some adjustmment, abd alot of things have been improved on, since early development. but overall, i have few complaints.
<nperry> Its all about unity :/
<ali1234> no.
<ali1234> at least gnome shell isn't buggy
<brobostigon> ali1234: it is 99% perecent stable here, i agree.
<diplo> I've not tried it for a while, had issues with that as well
<diplo> Maybe time to try again, I think the issue was installing it ontop of 11.10 install
<AlanBell> mgdm: yeah, I am on fallback too, it does work rather well!
<diplo> 12.04 is defo more stable, main issue i have with it is dual screen
<diplo> Fallback here as well
<diplo> Keep trying others and coming back
<AlanBell> I think I will update to quantal and try unity there
<ali1234> fallback will never die
<mgdm> Long live fallback!
<ali1234> i highly recommend fallback users to install human-theme as well
<nperry> AlanBell, I'm on quantal on this laptop...
<ali1234> you can actually tell which window is focussed then
<diplo> Will remember that tomorrow
<nperry> Unity is still unity.
<brobostigon> well, i think evetually, once things have advanced enough, fallback will be redundant, it is only there, to support gnome3 on older non-opengl capable hw.
<ali1234> no, that isn't true
<ali1234> fallback will never be redundant until gnome shell goes away
<ali1234> and i would put money on that happening first
<brobostigon> i am just looking at the problem logically, as to why it exists, and the problem it solves, and the reason it is there.
<ali1234> why it exists?
<ali1234> it exists because the majority of users do not like gnome-shell
<brobostigon> yes, and logic tells me, my above reasoning, to be correct.
<mgdm> ali1234: shoudl I be able to add launcher icons to the top bar like I could in GNOME2?
<brobostigon> ali1234: because, if all hw, was opengl capable, then there would be no point really, in fallback.
<ali1234> mgdm: in fallback? yes
<ali1234> brobostigon: no, that's what the gnome-shell developers said about the very early gnome-fallback which no longer esists
<brobostigon> ali1234: think back, the argument you made above, was made at the start of gnome2 development aswell, and what happened.
<ali1234> now that gnome-shell runs on llvm-pipe (or will soon) that thing no longer exists
<AlanBell> early gnome-fallback was unuseable, but it is now rather good
<mgdm> ali1234: right-clicking it does nothing, which was how I did it before
 * mgdm will play later
<ali1234> now gnome-fallback means gnome panel running on gtk3
<ali1234> mgdm: you add shortcuts to top panel by dragging them from start menu...
<AlanBell> mgdm: for me the panels are not as fully featured as they used to be, which is totally fine
<ali1234> mgdm: also all the old stuff you did on gnome-panel, now you have to hold alt+windows and right click
<ali1234> the panels do absolutely everything that they used to
<mgdm> wooo
<AlanBell> oh, didn't know that
<mgdm> perfect!
<ali1234> they didn't in the old crappy fallback that was "just a temporary solution until gnome-shell is done"
<diplo> I'm still on 10.10 on this PC \o/
<ali1234> but as i said, that thing is dead cos everyne hated it
<diplo> Work PC is 12.04
<AlanBell> gosh, right click on a launcher and *see what it does*
<ali1234> AlanBell: what does it do?
<AlanBell> "firefox %u" in this instance
<brobostigon> ali1234: that is not accurate, i talk to many people who like it in many ways, and use it everyday, and like its simplicity.
<ali1234> brobostigon: well i talk to many+1 people who hate it. anecdotes are useless
<AlanBell> you can set launchers to be arbitary commands without tying yourself in knots
<brobostigon> ali1234: agreed, it is a matter of choice. and that is what it is all about, and what works better for everyone individually.
<ali1234> AlanBell: it's just backed by a .desktop somewhere, same as unity
<ali1234> would be nice if right clicking supported unity quicklists... :)
<AlanBell> ali1234: yeah, but you can get to it
<ali1234> yeah that is a bonus
<ali1234> also right clicking "applications" lets you get to the menu editor
<ali1234> basically it all works exactly like it used to
<ali1234> isn't it amazing how using unity and then coming back to a proper desktop, and you're amazed at how easy everything is?
<AlanBell> yeah, and I used Unity for at least a year
<ali1234> same here
<diplo> All what you guys are saying is what is annoying about unity for me, I like lots of parts of unity, but the crashing/dual screen issues are a no goer
<AlanBell> diplo: I use unity with dual screens normally, it is fine for me
<diplo> :(
<AlanBell> apart from randomly going back to mirrored screens on occasion
<ali1234> yes most of the dual screen problems were fixed, except for the retarded insistence of the launcher *always* being on the left side of every screen
<diplo> yeah well that's exactly what i mean
 * AlanBell upgrades to quantal
<diplo> it's a LTS, it's just to buggy to be a lts
<ali1234> and note launcher-on-left isn't a bug, it's a design requirement
<ali1234> that's not to say there aren't plenty of bugs in unity... but they don't generally involve dual screen mode
<AlanBell> except for rtl languages where it is on the right
<ali1234> is that really true?
<AlanBell> You have to download a total of 966 M. This download will take about 9 minutes with your connection.
<ali1234> screenshots?
<ali1234> and does it also flip the window controls?
<diplo> I also don't like on dual screen that you have to have dual launchers, i set mine to hide but it used to catch moving between screens
<ali1234> you can turn that off
<AlanBell> you don't have to have dual launchers
<AlanBell> and you don't have to have the annoying stickyness between screens
<ali1234> but i can't do without a launcher on every screen
<AlanBell> I normally have a launcher on the left of the leftmost screen
<ali1234> if i run something fullscreen on the primary monitor there must be a way to launch applications from monitor 2
<diplo> AlanBell: that's what i wanted but couldn't get it to do it
<AlanBell> I would also like a launcher on the right of the rightmost screen, but design says no
<AlanBell> diplo: it is in the displays dialog, click a monitor and I think it is a checkbox to display a laucher on each monitor
<diplo> Been out since initial release ? As i didn't see that before
<ali1234> for 12.04 yes
<ali1234> in fact the default is "not on all monitors"
<AlanBell> it changed a few times in the dev cycle for 12.04
<ali1234> actually putting a launcher on every monitor has not been default behaviour in any release
<AlanBell> it was default at around beta 1 I think
<ali1234> yes, it was default for a while during development
<ali1234> but not in any release
<diplo> Well for whatever i tried i couldn't stop the second
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> they had a poll on OMG ubuntu to decide what the default would be
<diplo> I had mine from beta, so wonder whether a config issue
<diplo> yeah saw that
<ali1234> and "only on one monitor" won
<ali1234> yes it's a config issue
<ali1234> compiz config is a huge mess of stuff that gets turned on and off all the time because it is suspected of triggering some bug in some other plugin
<ali1234> at least during dev cycle it does
<ali1234> and they reset it totally from time to time as well
<diplo> Keep on meaning to try lxde/xfce again as lot's of people say to
<ali1234> don't listen to those people. gnome-fallback is better
<diplo> As I say I am running that already
<ali1234> i've tried every desktop there is over the past year and they all suck
<diplo> Waiting for oimon to try them all :)
<ali1234> xfce is like using ubuntu from 2006
<ali1234> lxde is like using kde from 2002
<diplo> :D
<ali1234> of course using kde 4 is like using windows 3.1 except everything is shiny transparent gradients
<ali1234> did i mention that i love the windows 8 metro flat panel look and hope that kde copies it as faithfully as they copied the incredibly ugly aero?
<mcphail> Bah. The only desktop you need is "screen"
<ali1234> i agree. unfortunately ubuntu decided tmux is better (spoiler: it isn't)
<ali1234> i can see how they arrived at that viewpoint though
<mcphail> haven't tried tmux. What does it offer?
<diplo> I really don't like Win 8 Metro, will defo use something else
<ali1234> it offers the ability to split terminal windows
<mgdm> which screen can do?
<ali1234> screen can do it but it can't remember it
<mgdm> admittedly the key combo to do it looks like line noise
<mcphail> oh well. competition is good
<ali1234> now if you're like me you're probably thinking "but i can just open two gnome terminals and put them side by side, and then i can even select the temrinal i want with the mouse instead of an obscure string of keyboard shortcuts"
<popey> choo choo!
<ali1234> but if you're like me you're not using unity either, which makes dealing with multiple gnome terminals all but impossible
 * diplo uses terminator and seperate screens in each :/
<mgdm> I'd like to see terminator get the same integration with tmux that iTerm2 on the Mac has
<mcphail> i've never cared for split windows
<popey> 1. join irc
<mgdm> iTerm2 is brill
<mgdm> terminator is only very slightly less brill
<popey> 2. see unity moaning
<popey> \o/
<ali1234> lolz
<BigRedS> haha, well if you will join a channel with ali1234 in it :)
<mgdm> arf
<mgdm> actually now that I've discovered the keyboard shortcuts for splitting windows, iTerm2 is back down to second place \o/
<pr0ph3t> I want games on linux, now
<pr0ph3t> steam, skyrim and all the rest of them
<pr0ph3t> native
<ali1234> skyrim is dumb
<ali1234> why did they record that same line of dialogue in 100 different voices?
<pr0ph3t> ehehe
<ali1234> or do they just record once and then process it?
<mcphail> "i used to play games on ubuntu like you...
<Azelphur> but then I took an arrow to the knee"
 * Azelphur runs
<pr0ph3t> then you took a windows in the knee?
<Azelphur> xD
 * mcphail hates himself for writing that
<pr0ph3t> well one can only hope
<pr0ph3t> at least I can only hope as I wouldn't know where to start to port games to linux etc
<mcphail> pr0ph3t: just let wesnoth take over your life
<pr0ph3t> I play linux native games as well
<ali1234> you should have bought humble indie bundle 5 last week
<Azelphur> Gabe Newell says Steam for Linux before the end of the year, if anyone didn't hear that already btw
<ali1234> yeah but what about the games?
<Azelphur> L4D most likely will be the first
<ali1234> if it only has L4D2 in it i don't care
<mcphail> the only humble bundle game i've really enjoyed is VVVVV
<ali1234> that game sucks
<Azelphur> tbh the most important thing is the platform - once we have the platform people will start porting
<pr0ph3t> well Unity3D is also working for linux native games
 * dwatkins wonders if this will make NVidia less likely to incurr Linus' wrath
<ali1234> no, because nvidia is the only way to make games work properly anyway
<pr0ph3t> http://unity3d.com/unity/
<mcphail> I think the nVidia rant was just an extension of the previous rant about ARM support in the kernel
<pr0ph3t> you need an engine like that
<Azelphur> ali1234: there was a guy on #winehq running L4D2 with noveau yesterday
<ali1234> we already have an engine like that
<dwatkins> ah i see, mcphail
<ali1234> a couple in fact
<ali1234> Azelphur: hilarious
<ali1234> i can't even run a 2D desktop with nouveau
<pr0ph3t> ali1234, the more the merrier
<Azelphur> :)
<Azelphur> clearly he could :P
<Azelphur> I got some stuff running on the open AMD driver too, although not properly
<pr0ph3t> it's just that like many other people, games are the only reason why I run Windows
<ali1234> the only reason why i run windows is: adobe creative suite
<pr0ph3t> adobe is not a great linux fan though is it
<mcphail> the only reason i run windows is: internet explorer 6. (unfortunately true...)
<ali1234> you can run that in wine
<dwatkins> or a virtual machine
<mcphail> pr0ph3t: adobe are open source friendly - just not free software friendly
<ali1234> in fact there is a tool for specifically for web developers for multiplexing all IE versions in wine
<mgdm> ies4linux
<mgdm> IIRC
<mcphail> ali1234: ie6 under wine can't run the apps i need at work
<ali1234> fiar enough
<AlanBell> right, time to reboot into quantal
<AlanBell> back \o/
<AlanBell> and in unity again
<AlanBell> thing seem squarer
<ali1234> hmm if i dlopen xlib and call a function that returns a pointer that must be freed with XFree, can i just free it with free() instead, so that i don't have to dlload XFree as well?
<bigcalm> Is it possible to find out the health of a RAID 1?
<Azelphur> random question, why do people buy NAS's instead of a small PC with lots of drive slots
<Azelphur> isn't the PC cheaper?
<ali1234> because PCs are LOOOOUUUUUUUD
<hamitron> can get a NAS for Â£50?
<ali1234> and because NAS unit is incredibly easy to set up. you plug it in and turn it on
<ali1234> not with drives
<hamitron> no, not with drives
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> but then you can't get the drives alone for Â£50 either
<hamitron> well, I like my Netgear ReadyNAS
<hamitron> so small and just work
<hamitron> s
<ali1234> yes you can get an empty one for about Â£50
<ali1234> seriously NAS unit is too easy
<ali1234> most of them basically are PCs anyway
<ali1234> good one will have micro atx power supply you can replace etc
<hamitron> I do have 1 complaint with my NAS
<hamitron> it is simple and works, and I just want to modify it.... but feel like I shouldn't :/
<hamitron> frustrating! ;)
<ali1234> why play around with modifying things that already work perfectly well, when there is so much broken things you could work on instead?
<hamitron> indeed
<hamitron> I know that is the logical thing
<hamitron> just feels wrong somehow
<hamitron> feel the same about my wrt54gl too
<ali1234> https://github.com/ali1234/fullscreenhack/blob/master/fullscreenhack.c
<ali1234> i am working on this today
<ali1234> i think i can fix the screen selection problem. maybe even force it
<ali1234> some comments on my blog gave me some ideas
<ali1234> out of everything i have ever coded, this one gets more comments and emails than any of them
<ali1234> i want to add a fix for the smurf bug too but i don't know how. vdpau is C++ and i can't figure out how to override funtions in a C++ library
<ali1234> it should be possible though
<hamitron> I never got into C++
<ali1234> C++ could be considered an amusing abuse of C pointers...
<ali1234> C++ classes are really C structs stuffed with function pointers, and the compiler just hides it all from you
<ali1234> unfortunately it doesn't hde it very well. i prefer Qt's MOC
<hamitron> I think it was because I did some work that only had a C compiler, and was just too lazy to learn new stuff, when stuff I already used worked
<hamitron> no real reasoning for me
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> anyways
<hamitron> better sleeps
<hamitron> o/
#ubuntu-uk 2012-06-22
<ali1234> i managed to make a X.509 certificate and enroll it as PK
<ali1234> then i made a sub-certificate and signed it, then used it to make a software publisher certificate
<ali1234> then i signed HelloWorldSigned.efi with the spc and my sub-certificate private key
<ali1234> and............. it doesn't work
<ali1234> enrolling both the PK and the Kek manually doesn't work either
<AlanBell> thats a shame ali1234
<AlanBell> is it a bug in the tiano stuff?
<ali1234> i don't know
<ali1234> i suspect it's because i signed with sha1 hash instead of sha256 but the linux tools only support sha1 or md5
<ali1234> so i have no idea how i'm supposed to sign with sha256
<ali1234> googling suggests EFI is supposed to support sha1 though
<ali1234> so i don't know
<AlanBell> openssl should support sha256
<ali1234> yes but signcode is some mono thing
<ali1234> maybe it does support sha256 and they just didn't mention it in the man page
<ali1234> [ERROR] FATAL UNHANDLED EXCEPTION: System.ArgumentException: Invalid Authenticode hash algorithm
<ali1234> that would be a no then
<MooDoo> morning all
<AlanBell> so if it is a mono thing, why is it a different tool on linux to windows?
<ali1234> good question
<ali1234> makecert is identical
<ali1234> there is no SignTool.exe for linux afaict
<ali1234> i suspect that signcode is out of date, replaced by signtool, but makecert was never updated
<AlanBell> ah right, signcode is deprecated, signtool is the new hotness
<ali1234> signcode uses these spc files
<AlanBell> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/8s9b9yaz%28VS.80%29.aspx doesn't mention sha256
<ali1234> and signtool uses the other thing ...
<ali1234> PFX
<ali1234> but i bet they do a similar thing
<ali1234> SPC at least allows you to specify multiple certificates, so i think that is the key for getting multiple trust chains to work
<ali1234> so i need pvk2pfx.exe and SignTool.exe
<ali1234> AlanBell: that's a broken link
<ali1234> AlanBell: my notes so far: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UEFI
<AlanBell> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/770711/whats-the-main-difference-between-signcode-exe-and-signtool-exe
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> i already knew that :)
<ali1234> .spc can contain multiple certificates though
<DJones> Grr, stupid Natwest online banking
<ali1234> maybe they had certificate problems :(
<Seeker`> hey
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: If you're having cert problems I feel bad for you son. I have 99 problems but a key ain't one :P
 * Seeker` groans
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: is it Friday yet? :)
<Seeker`> YES!
<MartijnVdS> then it's allowed :P
<Seeker`> not going to work today though
<MartijnVdS> I wonder how many more holes my upstairs neighbor can drill before his appartment crashes down on him
<Seeker`> 6
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: I sincerely hope so
<MartijnVdS> He's been drilling holes almost 24/7 for years now
<DJones> If anybody here works for NatWest, please hurry up and fix your banking systems
<Seeker`> heh
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: gotta get down on friiiidaaaaaay, everybody's looking forward to the weekend weekend
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: *\\o o//*
<dwatkins> ali1234: I read a conspiracy theory recently that that particular song is about the late US president JFK.
<ali1234> have you ever actually heard it?
<ali1234> it's not about anything
<ali1234> it's not even about friday
<dwatkins> ali1234: yeah, it's just a frivolous song about the weekend, I imagine
<dwatkins> I suspect the lyrics are about as deep as what remains of my coffee
<nperry> morn all o/
<christel> morning
<dwatkins> hiya
<popey> morning
<AlanBell> morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
<bigcalm> Gooooooood mornings :)
<bigcalm> Morning mrevell
<mrevell> Hi bigcalm
<bigcalm> mrevell: have you installed the stable release of CM 7.2 on your phone?
<mrevell> bigcalm, I'm not sure what version I had on the Desire. It wasn't particularly stable, though. Gave up and bought an iPhone instead :)
<bigcalm> Haha
<popey> \o/ iPhone club!
<mrevell> :)
 * bigcalm shakes his head
<bigcalm> It's 4 bins popey!
<mrevell> Haven't looked back
<popey> yup
<gord> fed up of my android phone but don't want an iphone, fear i may have to get a windows phone :(
<MartijnVdS> what's bad about android?
<mrevell> Crumbs, isn't that a bit "bite off your nose to spite your face" gord? :)
<AlanBell> gord: they are asking for people to test ubuntu for android
<bigcalm> "Out For Delivery" I wonder what that could mean ;)
<gord> android just has a whole bunch of small things that bug me and i've found that i don't care if there is a large amount of apps available because i barely use any anyway
<bigcalm> gord: maybe those small things would be fixed if you tried CyanogenMod 7.2 on it
<popey> AlanBell, we are?
<popey> I completely agree with gord
<bigcalm> popey: again, AlanBell knows more than Canonical employees ;)
<popey> guy next to me here has a galaxy nexus
<nperry> bigcalm, Samsung Galaxy S 3?
<bigcalm> nperry: oooo, maybe :D
<popey> the video playback app is awful
<ali1234> but the android youtube app is flawless
<AlanBell> popey: http://webmink.com/2012/06/20/help-test-ubuntu-for-android/
<nperry> bigcalm, enjoy it - my girlfriend has one.. I've gave up trying to convince her my samsung galaxy s 2 is better and she can have my s2 while I have her s3..
<gord> i do enjoy that from android opening a youtube link i can choose to open in xbmc and it shows up on my tv :)
<bigcalm> nperry: haha
<popey> ooh, hadn't seen that
<bigcalm> nperry: what makes the s2 better than the s3? (apart from looks)
<AlanBell> bigcalm: it is slightly cheaper and has the words "don't panic" written on it in big friendly letters
<nperry> The screen is so much better outside.
<nperry> The S2 I struggle to see a lot when its sunny. Thank god I live in England though.
<bigcalm> AlanBell: bwuhahaha
<mrevell> A quite practical consideration put me off the S3 and many of the other hot Android phones. It probably hasn't escaped the attention of those who've met me that I am not a large bloke. I want a phone that fits in one hand comfortably.
<bigcalm> nperry: yeah, don't really see that being a problem in the UK ;)
<nperry> mrevell, get some steroids injected into your hand..
<bigcalm> mrevell: having a big heart makes up for your diminutive stature
<mrevell> One freakishly muscular hand might actually make that harder.
<mrevell> bigcalm, Who said I had a big heart? :)
<Daviey> Would be a good experiment.
<nperry> Google Plus has just told me it is no panty day...
<nperry> I'll brb.
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<diplo> Morning all
<nperry> popey, Doesn't everyone have four bins :S
<popey> seems not
<nperry> Ah, Wiltshire has had four for the last year or so.
<MartijnVdS> nperry: what? no panty days?
<nperry> MartijnVdS, seems that way.
<MartijnVdS> nperry: what does this tell us about Wiltshire?
<nperry> They are infront of the times.
<nperry> Wiltshire lead the way.
<diplo> nperry: Running out of room like me
<diplo> :(
<diplo> Some of my neighbours have 5+ bins
<diplo> I have same amount of children and get by with 1 grey bin, some have 2 to 2 1/2
<nperry> We have five bins, one normal, one garden, one plastic & cardboard, one paper box and one glass box.
<ali1234> i have SIX bins
<bigcalm> Damn, I was hoping not to have to ask this year - Emergency help required - What do I get my sister for her 35th birthday?
<diplo> nperry: Glass box?
<diplo> Our paper/glass go in the same one
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: a cake.
<nperry> They started off wanting paper/glass in seperate boxes then stopped that.. So we have two black boxes
<diplo> All depends what she is into, my sister rides / owns horses and pretty much always get her a gift to do with that
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: she lives 150 miles away
<nperry> Council said they'd pick them up.
<nperry> bigcalm, a card then.
<diplo> Oh, I'm in Trowbridge.. still collect both in one here
<bigcalm> nperry: well, a card will happen anyway
<nperry> diplo, I local person o/
<bigcalm> Annoyingly she doesn't have an amazon wishlist
<nperry> *hi
<nperry> bigcalm, amazon giftcard then :D
<diplo> Let me guess, Swindon area?
<nperry> diplo, No Warminster
<diplo> That's what my brother always goes for, and ah right... bloody close then :)
<bigcalm> nperry: trying to avoid vouchers
<bigcalm> Her birthday is on the 27th June, but we'll be visiting her after the RAT on 15th July. Could I get away with a late gift
<diplo> yeah bigcalm
<nperry> If its big, yes.
<diplo> My family are months late on giving gifts, doesn't matter at this age really does it
<diplo> I didn't get anything this year from my brother/sister
<bigcalm> Ug. Why can't Farnham be a little closer to Salisbury?
<diplo> heh
 * AlanBell things Farnham is in the right place and Salisbury should come closer
<bigcalm> Hotel booked for 2 nights in Farnham (RAT related). Visiting sister in Salisbury on the Sunday afternoon and then back to the hotel
<bigcalm> Ah well, I grumble too much ;)
<AlanBell> RAT ticket is an ideal 35th birthday present :)
<bigcalm> Haha
<AlanBell> problem solved
<Daviey> hmm, i am yet to purchase RAT ticket
<bigcalm> As far as I can tell, neither her or her boyfriend are into ale
<bigcalm> Daviey: cutting it a bit fine...
<AlanBell> Daviey: erk, they are now sold out to September
<Daviey> bigcalm: with the 6X brewery piratically on their doorstep, i am most disappointed
<Daviey> AlanBell: bugger.
<popey> \o/ I have a ticket
<Daviey> popey: super, do you want to give it to me on the day, post it, or meet up sooner?
<popey> :D
<Daviey> Unrelated, i'm liking these http headers .. X-Country: GB , X-Population: 1
<bigcalm> popey: not coming to the RAT?
<popey> <popey> \o/ I have a ticket
<mgdm> Daviey!
<bigcalm> popey: good :D
<Daviey> mgdm: !
<mgdm> Daviey: ltns :)
<Daviey> mgdm: thankfully :)
<AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1603/detail/ you can add a comment to say you are going
<Daviey> AlanBell: care to arrnage me a ticket, kkthnx :)
<AlanBell> and those who failed to take my advice to book tickets well in advance can still come to the BBQ http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1824/detail/
<AlanBell> no tickets required :)
<Daviey> 3 Alan's are going?!
<AlanBell> yep
<Daviey> 3 popey's!
<Daviey> golly
<AlanBell> is christel coming on the RAT?
<bigcalm> AlanBell: I believe so, yes
<mgdm> Daviey: :P
<bigcalm> AlanBell: and Byrn_S
<popey> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1603/detail/  \o/ comment left
<AlanBell> https://code.launchpad.net/~alanbell/compiz/fix930783/+merge/110791 approved \o/
<dwatkins> popey: for a moment there I thought you'd insitaged a Linux-based games console project ;)
<dwatkins> are you going to Didcot, popey?
<popey> no
<dwatkins> we used to go to the steam museum there when I was little
<diplo> popey: Breakage!
<christel> AlanBell: I AM!
<AlanBell> yay
<selinuxium> Hi all, I appear to be having some issues with U1... Anyone know how to clear a PC and start again?
<christel> i must find my tickets
<diplo> I would just really like to reiterate how poor IE is :(
<bigcalm> christel: yippiee :)
<christel> because i dont think i have Unpacked them since moving
<popey> selinuxium, #ubuntuone
<gord> i think i'm going to start calling my steam games list the "steam museum", if only to validate the redonkulous number of games on it...
<selinuxium> cheer popey
<christel> i have so many boxes still to unpack :(
<JamesTait> Happy Friday, people! :-D
<bigcalm> JamesTait: it will be when I take delivery in about an hour :D
<JamesTait> bigcalm: Dare I ask what?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<JamesTait> bigcalm: Is it fruit-themed and pastry-based?
<diplo> christel: I've been in my current house 5 years in July, last month I got rid of the last box from moving 5 years ago \o/
<bigcalm> JamesTait: actually, an apple pie would trump what I'm expecting
<christel> haha
<nperry> diplo, I moved into this house about 1 month and a week ago today... On the saturday the last box was out of the house.
 * bigcalm ponders going to the bakery later
<christel> how on earth do you manage to unpack in just a month!
<christel> that is IMPOSSIBLE
<bigcalm> I agree with christel
<diplo> I did have a new born when I moved in and the wife was preggers again
<bigcalm> Which craft!
<diplo> So I just chucked 50% up in the loft
<diplo> :)
<bigcalm> Witchcraft!
<diplo> I took the brave step of emptying my loft last month
<diplo> 3 days!!!!!
<christel> haha
<diplo> I do not recommend it
<bigcalm> Hehe
<diplo> 4 car loads of stuff dumped, I don't have a small car either
<christel> oh good point.. i do have a number of boxes that can go straight up in the loft actually
<diplo> Zafira, front to back top to bottom
<christel> (mainly christmas decorations)
<diplo> If it goes in the loft get rid of it :)
<christel> i probably do not need to leave them in the dining room
<christel> tho.. it is nearly christmas..
<diplo> My new mantra, apart from Xmas decs
<christel> isnt it?
<diplo> sssh!
<diplo> :)
<diplo> My kids may hear
<christel> hehe
<bigcalm> Xmas decorations and camping equipment live in our loft
<diplo> oh yeah and camping stuff ( forgot that )
<christel> i have several lofts
<diplo> I've dumped pretty much every thing else
<christel> this house is so weird
<christel> the kitchen is an extension, which has a loft (which is handy)
<christel> and then upstairs in the older part of the house there's also a loft
<christel> and i have this enormous (awning? is that the word?) space just off the main bedroom
<christel> in the slopey thingie bit of the roof
<christel> which is probably bad for a hoarder like me as i will just fill them all rather than ever chuck anything away
<bigcalm> :D
<davmor2> morning all
<diplo> It's awful outside :(
<diplo> Morning
<davmor2> MooDoo: me awld mucka, 'Ow am ya
<bigcalm> Hi davmor2
<davmor2> morning bigcalm how's sunny sunny TF10?
<bigcalm> davmor2: overcast, bit windy. Expecting rain :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: perfect summer weather
<nperry> christel, We managed to do it becuase we threw away a lot before we moved.
<davmor2> bigcalm: I blame this http://ubuntuone.com/6gt0itZ5myMlzyHSZvQPwD
<nperry> "Temporary maintenance"
<bigcalm> davmor2: Temporary maintenance?
<nperry> I DO BLAME THAT TEMPORARY MAINTENANCE!!!
<bigcalm> I blame aquarius
<davmor2> bigcalm: D'oh it's hardware upgrade day
<davmor2> bigcalm: remind me to show it you latter
 * Laney scowls at natwest
<davmor2> natwest closes Laney's account and keeps all his money as punishment for scowling
<ali1234> should've gone to barclays
<Laney> brown envelope under the mattress
<dwatkins> I've not considered switching to Natwest, they used to charge students for going a penny over their overdraft limit, just to send them a letter to inform them.
<BigRedS> Charge customers for goign over their overdraft limit? How rude!
<BigRedS> :)
<Daviey> dwatkins: hen i was a student, they sent me a default notice for being in my agreed overdraft limit... that is rude :)
<nperry> I think Halifax's charges are bad...
<dwatkins> yeah, I can understand them charging and so on, but if it's by a single penny, that's a bit petty - HSBC have a 50 quid buffer-zone
<nperry> Â£1 for being in agreeed and Â£5 for being outside of agreed... per day!
<dwatkins> also, it's 25 quid to just tell you you've gone overdrawn, which makes the problem much worse if you were only over by a little bit
<dwatkins> well, this was the case in 1995, at least.
<mattt> that's why they want ot bring back banking fees
<mattt> so they don't have to rip you off w/ those other charges
<mattt> personally, i'd rather let them keep ripping people off and not pay banking charges :P
<mattt> (fees rather)
<nperry> I just make sure I always have enough money in the bank
<nperry> With a buffer
<MooDoo> did someone want me?
<hoover_> hi folks
<dogmatic69> o/
<ali1234> ok, i FINALLY have the windows 7 SDK installed so i can sign PE objects with signtool
<ali1234> remember when they said you'd be able to self-sign things to use secure boot?
<ali1234> turns out that doing so requires a copy of windows
<davmor2> ali1234: No shock horror, Microsoft make it so you need one of their products to sign one of their products with their product key who'd of thunk it
<ali1234> no, you need a microsoft operating system to sign anything with any key
<ali1234> so for example, suppose you want to use secure boot on your redhat server
<davmor2> ali1234: yes that would be their range of products and all the keys belong to microsoft that was kinda my point
<ali1234> and for some reason you need a custom kernel module
<ali1234> well, now you need a copy of windows to do that
<directhex> for now
<directhex> the signing format is known. there's no reason a free signing tool can't be written
<ali1234> yes, the specification is known
<ali1234> but allegedly the implementation does not match the specification
<davmor2> ali1234: oh shock horror, microsoft fail to stick to their own spec
<ali1234> ok, got a pfx file now
<ali1234> oh great, signtool doesn't even work
<ali1234> "Either the file being signed or one of the DLL specified by the /j switch is not a valid Win32 application."
<andylockran> hey guys, just found a site that's been compromised, with this JS at the bottom of the page: http://pastebin.com/dt1QYfJs
<andylockran> any clues?
<ali1234> clues?
<andylockran> westcountry.ru
<dogmatic69> andylockran: http://bin.cakephp.org/view/586610874
<andylockran> thanks
<ali1234> https://github.com/vathpela/pesign/ hmm
<ali1234> looks like there is a linux tool, although it's still under development
<nperry> Hmm dogmatic69, you have now made me want to make a PHP turn based name using cakephp... :(
<dogmatic69> nperry: how so?
<nperry> Just seeing the cakephp... I was going to attempt to hack one up about six months ago.
<bigcalm> Why with cakephp?
<nperry> Lazy writing.
<dogmatic69> cakephp is awesome
<bigcalm> So are other PHP frameworks ;)
 * MartijnVdS cries about PHP being called awesome
 * MartijnVdS hands out free copies of python
<davmor2> bigcalm: sorry php and awesome in the same sentence did you just bang your head?  I've heard you cussing it to hell and back don't forget :D
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: alcohol is a hell of a drug
 * bigcalm shakes his head
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: I agree, thus going to the pub with Hayley tonight :D
<nperry> bigcalm, would you recommend something else then?
<MartijnVdS> nperry: for what?
<bigcalm> nperry: no recommendations, just wondered why cakephp instead of other frame works
<bigcalm> nperry: I use Symfony 1.4 a lot
<nperry> I have only ever used Cake once, only instance of using a php framework.
<Daviey> it's good, but it's not quite django.. amirite?
<diplo> We use CodeIgniter
<diplo> heh, been meaning to try Django after a few people here mentioned it
<andylockran> I'm looking at syfony
<nperry> Daviey, django would some fun...
<Daviey> justifying any other legacy framework is indefensible </bigot>
<gord> django had suuuch a nice database model, i loved it. its been years since i used it though
<nperry> Humm... This is torture. http://www.glastonburyfestivals.co.uk/news/missing-glastonbury-watch-the-guardians-live-stream
<MartijnVdS> haha :)
<Daviey> gord: database schema migrations really make me cry with joy.
<diplo> I didn't know it was used on pinterest etc
<ali1234> looks like i'm going to have to download windows 8 preview, then use that to download windows 8 sdk preview - probably to get the exact same result
<ali1234> i'll also have to download visual studio 12 RC
<diplo> What I don't understand is where all these companies make money
<ali1234> what, pinterest?
<ali1234> it's simple: they don't
<diplo> That's my thoughts :)
<diplo> Costing them about  $35 an hour to power it
<nperry> I'm really feeling a chip lunch..
<diplo> ah, so they do have a plan of make money... see if it works
<nperry> They do?
<AlanBell> get lots of users, approach venture capital funding source, point to lots of users and business plan that shows profit prediction for about a year after the founders cash out
<diplo> heh that awsmy thought AlanBell
<diplo> But it seems that companies are making use of pinterest already for there products
<diplo> And it seems that companys doing it direct will maybe be charged
<diplo> Selling user data as well
<diplo> Affiliate links etc
<BigRedS> yeah, user data is pretty valuable
<BigRedS> especially if you can do it well
<BigRedS> also, even if you don't sell it you can sell incredibly well-targeted ad space
<lazarus_> http://giffgaff.com/orders/affiliate/lazman121212
<diplo> :D
<AlanBell> irc spam :(
<AlanBell> lazarus_: don't do that
<lazarus_> aww i sowwie
<mattt> and while you're at it, stop saying sowwie
 * mattt hides
<MartijnVdS> soiree?
<lazarus_> nowwie
<DJones> nicekiwi: I would give the adding the /whois lazarus_
<lazarus_> am i in trouble
<DJones> I doubt it :)
<MartijnVdS> https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=60758
<BigRedS> Oh! That's grown!
<BigRedS> Wait, no, different bug :)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: reddit.com/r/lolphp
<bigcalm> ?
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS:
<bigcalm> I don't read reddit
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: wrong big<tab> :)
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: yeah, I spent about a day in there a little while ago
<bigcalm> Strikes again!
<BigRedS> so I declined to subscribe :)
<BigRedS> I guess you've seen https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=50696 ?
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: bug 1016430 is a go for me
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1016430 in unity (Ubuntu) "launcher is not refreshed after user session switch" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1016430
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: yeah. :|
<dogmatic69> mousing over the unity bar clears it up though
<AlanBell> dogmatic69: why me?
<dogmatic69> wrong one :/
<dogmatic69> too many Alans :)
<ali1234> i keep testing 987485 and forgetting to clear print jobs and so now my printer just starts printing at random times every couple of days
<MartijnVdS> It's ALIVE
<ali1234> it works perfectly as long as you don't mind waiting 36 hours between jobs
<ali1234> +/- 12 hours
<dogmatic69> lol
<dogmatic69> ali1234: you just need to schedule your life around that
<ali1234> meh. it's not like i ever print anything
<ali1234> except that i've printed about 100 pages of tests while testing various non-working fixes
<oimon> anyone know any good vmware irc channels?
<oimon> specifically for vsphere?
<MartijnVdS> they're all virtual
<ali1234> that's probably more than this printer has seen in it's 15+ year life
<oimon> ali1234, sounds like you have the same printer as me
<oimon> laserjet?
<ali1234> yes
<oimon> think mine's a 4M or 4plus
<ali1234> this is a 4L
<oimon> i have 2 spare toner still
<bigcalm> I freecycled my 4M to a very grateful student
<ali1234> but this bug seems to be to do with the specific USB to parallel adapter i'm using
<oimon> i drove to portsmouth a few yrs ago to pick up 2 from an ebuyer who was mystified that i would be excited to get them
<ali1234> you can still buy new ones for the 4L
<ali1234> and they have a shelf life... the light sensitive roller thingy goes bad
<oimon> :-\
<ali1234> then you get print outs that have vertical black streaks all down the page
<oimon> a common issue..
<oimon> with all this rain, i'm stocking up on paint and new brushes for a airfix-a-thon while on holiday
<oimon> don't think i'll be going out much
<ali1234> yeah... the reason these laserjet 4L are still going is cos the cartridge has everything that can wear out in one thing that costs only Â£15
<oimon> when hp made good printers
<oimon> got some awful ones at work lately
<dwatkins> I wish I hadn't thrown away my laserjet 4M.
<dwatkins> (well, I wish it hadn't failed etc.)
<bigcalm> When my 4M failed, I repaired it :D
<oimon> the rubber on the rollers tends to perish but they can be replaced
<oimon> ubuntu thinks it's a PS printer when it's a PCL one
<oimon> i thought my printer had died for about 9 months until i realised what was happeining
<bigcalm> oimon: that's what I had to replace. The paper would concertina otherwise
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan-fold
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: it's not a dotmatrix printer
<bigcalm> I miss printing with one
<bigcalm> A rather comforting sound
<MartijnVdS> you can still buy them
<MartijnVdS> also, USB to parallel port converters
<bigcalm> I don't miss them enough to actually need one though :P
<MartijnVdS> we had one of these: http://www.recycledgoods.com/product_images/e/436/s_p_8242_1__38726_zoom.jpg
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: we had one of those too :D
<oimon> me too
<oimon> connected to my acorn
<MartijnVdS> We had it connected to our 8MHz XT clone
<MartijnVdS> from "G2 computer systems"
<MartijnVdS> my dad still has the manuals :)
<oimon> " SSD prices have dropped an average of 46% since early 2011." : slashdot
<dwatkins> considering how much flash storage has increased in capacity and dropped in price, I expect that trend to continue, oimon
<oimon> they break a lot though
<oimon> a colleague was getting only 6 mo's use out of some in a server
<directhex> some brands break more than others
<dwatkins> Moore's law, hard at work
<dwatkins> oimon: an SSD? I've heard you can utterly destroy one in 9 months, i.e. make its capacity zero
<dwatkins> that's from constant reading and writing, as you would experience in a RAID array, but the test was done a couple years ago.
<oimon> yeah, he's using them in a high i/o server
<ali1234> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2012-June/035445.html
<oimon> what are MS trying to stop by having secure boot anyway?
<oimon> i mean, what's the official reason?
<awilkins> Rootkits
<awilkins> Probably
<ali1234> oimon: the malware attack where the windows kernel is replaced by a patched version which will load unsigned device drivers
<oimon> rootkits run inside the OS tho
<awilkins> I suspect the real reason is as ali1234 says, not loading unsigned drivers
<awilkins> Which means "protected media path" gains more armour
<ali1234> "Ubuntu will not require signed kernel images or kernel modules." - this completely defeats any security that secure boot provides
<ali1234> all you need to do is make a windows bootloader that ignores signature and looks like a linux kernel
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: it will not _require_ them
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: that could also mean "There is a switch to turn signature checking off hidden deep in the bowels of some config"
<Daviey> slowly, slowly catchy monkey.
<AlanBell> hello Daviey
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: please read the whole post
<Daviey> hullo AlanBell
<ali1234> argh how do i even use windows 8?
<nperry> You dont.
<ali1234> no, you don't. i have to
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: you pick it up and throw it at a wall
<nperry> sudo rm -rf /media/windows8
<nperry> If you keep touching your screen it will soon become a touchscreen
<nperry> As Microsoft thinks PC's are so last year.
<Seeker`> eughfingerprints
<directhex> ali1234, well, first you drag the lock screen away, to log in.
<directhex> this may suck with a mouse
 * dwatkins boots a virtual machine to see what all the fuss about Windows 8 is
<ali1234> argh this is the stupidest OS ever
<ali1234> how do i get explorer?!?!?!?
<MartijnVdS> you don't
<ali1234> how do i get command prompt?
 * awilkins hasn't tried Win8 yet
<MartijnVdS> you don't
<awilkins> win-r ?
<ali1234> how am i supposed to run signtool.exe without command prompt? this makes no sense
<MartijnVdS> telnet into it?
<ali1234> awilkins: you win the prize
<dwatkins> lol telnet
<awilkins> Don't think telnet has shipped with windows since 2000 or before
<ali1234> easiest way to get windows 8 not to suck: press win+r on the metro home screen
<diplo> awilkins: Still there, you just have to enable it in control panel
<diplo> add/remove
<s-fox> Hi, anyone here familiar with glade?
<dogmatic69> s-fox: the air freshener?
<awilkins> diplo, Ah, so you have to actually install it..
<nperry> glade makes things smell nice.
<s-fox> dogmatic69,  no, the user interface designer.  i am having an issue with a button ;)
<diplo> yer, but still available
<nperry> You have the plugin one..
 * awilkins detests all forms of "air freshener"
<dogmatic69> nperry: I find oust better
<diplo> needed it for something a few months ago
<awilkins> They might as well label them "air toxifier"
<nperry> dogmatic69, fabreeze is good as well :D
<dwatkins> telnet ships with Windows Server 2008, it's just not installed by default.
<dogmatic69> awilkins: oust removes xyz smell, and does not actually have a smell its self
<dwatkins> [the client, that is]
<nperry> I still can't believe they changed the name of Jif.
<awilkins> dogmatic69, Yes, they are not quite so bad
<dwatkins> and then there's Snickers...
<awilkins> Opal Fruits
<awilkins> "Starburst"
<awilkins> I mean, WTH. Let's change a fruity sweet name from something with "fruit" in it, to "Starburst".
<dwatkins> the advert was awful, too
<awilkins> Not a patch on "Opal Fruits! Made to make your mouth water!"
<MartijnVdS> Have they renamed Walkers to Lay's yet? :)
<dwatkins> indeed, such a good slogan it sticks in my head even now
<dwatkins> I believe they're separate com[panies, I have a bag of Walkers' crisps here
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: the logos are identical
<diplo> dwatkins: It was the same with Vista/Win7
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: "Walkers is now owned by PepsiCo with the current logo as a derivative of the North American Lay's logo"
<MartijnVdS> Lay's (known as Walkers in the UK and Ireland, Chipsy[1] in Egypt, Poca in Vietnam, [2] Tapuchips in Israel,[3] Sabritas In Mexico) is the brand name for a number of potato chip varieties as well as the name of the company that founded the chip brand in 1932. Lay's chips has been marketed as a division of Frito-Lay, a company owned by PepsiCo since 1965.
<dwatkins> oh wow
<awilkins> "Lay's" is a lame name even for the USA
<MartijnVdS> It used to be "Smith's" in the Netherlands
<diplo> http://www.occupymonsanto360.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/who-owns-what-infographic-food-companies.jpg
<diplo> Quite interesting
<dwatkins> I thought Lay's were busy putting very little food in crisp bags.
<awilkins> "Hey, I got me some real nice Lay's in the car". *snurk snurk*
<em> Frito Lays
 * nperry gets in awilkins car.
<awilkins> Hah, Quaker oats giving everyone the impression they are owned by Quakers and they're owned by Pepsi
<awilkins> Whereas Cadbury WAS owned by Quakers and now it's owned by Kraft. Ick.
 * em Leis awilkins 
<awilkins> (actual Quakers, not the oat guys. Who were probably originally owned by real Quakers too)
<em> http://site.blackpearldesigns.net/images/lei-greeting.jpg
<awilkins> Nice to have an updated list of what Nestle own. Our household has a total embargo on Nestle goods
<em> why are you boycotting them?
<em> Is this all coming from some master list?
<awilkins> Principally for the whole evil baby milk thing
<em> oh i see diplo's link
<dwatkins> there's an ancient boycott of Nestle due to some baby milk thing they did
<em> Milk from evil babies?
<nperry> Ha oyster fail.
<dwatkins> em: heh
<awilkins> They'd give out samples of baby milk in developing nations, and when the mothers milk dried up they'd stiff 'em for loadsa cash
<Daviey> No, they took all the natural milk from African babies mothers.. leaving none left for the baby.
<IdleOne> nestle is one of the biggest fresh water/community destroying companies in the world. They move in, buy up rights to water and when the creek runs dry they leave the community jobless and waterless
<awilkins> Plus of course, powdered baby milk is a dumb idea in places without reliable clean water supplies
<nperry> A couple of weeks back I had a trip register as a no check in. So got overchagred... Phoned up and got a refund and just had an email saying they are refunding me. I forgot I sent them an email asking about it.
<nperry> So now I have two refunds.
<dwatkins> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nestl%C3%A9_boycott explains
<awilkins> Well, powdered baby milk is a dumb idea in any place, should only be a last resort
<dwatkins> awilkins: precisely
<em> I did not hear about the baby formula thing. :(
<em> that really sucks.
<dwatkins> em: yeah, it's a long-standing boycott
<em> I thought Nestle was a Swiss or Swedish company
<awilkins> Swiss
<MartijnVdS> em: maybe originally
<em> is it a personal boycott or a national one?
<awilkins> As much as any company can be "anything-ish" now
<em> awilkins: yeah
<popey> awilkins, do you have children?
<awilkins> em : personal, in our case. Wifelet is a paediatrician
<awilkins> We have an 8 year old
<popey> ok
<awilkins> Large companies like to think themselves above nationality now, I'm sure
<em> One thing that irritates me a bit is that our global corporate masters want us all to buy into the idea that a world without borders is a utopian future whenever it is about them moving and doing business where they like, and making money how they like, but with the next breath the same global corporate masters remind us that we better well remember where we live when it comes to sharing movies and music with our friends in other countries.
<awilkins> Oh, they are all very much in favour of one law for them, etc
<em> awilkins: its a bgood boycott
<dwatkins> yeah, that's just them trying to make the movies scarce artificially
<dwatkins> controlled timed released to maximise profits
<awilkins> Was reminded of this fact recently when the Tories started this whole "Back to O-levels" thing
<awilkins> Oddly for them, they were railing against an instance where competition was bad for the quality of the product (exam papers)
<em> It's pretty sad when you want to share a song with someone on IRC who is in another country so you give them a youtube link and they are told the content is blocked in their country
<awilkins> Just so uncharacteristic of the Tories to admit that competition could be BAD for something
<em> what sort of exam papers? Like end of year standardized tests>?
<awilkins> em, Our end-of-secondary-school tests
<awilkins> GCSE : General Certificate of Secondary Education
<awilkins> They're basically a total joke
<em> Those sorts of tets are the death of education
<awilkins> (IMHO)
<awilkins> O-Levels were tough
<awilkins> I did the 2nd year of GCSEs ; they weren't too bad
<em> diplo: the chart is kind of confusing some places. Like it looks like Cadbury sends money to DrPepper but also sends money to Kraft
<awilkins> I saw a paper from 3 years later and it went from "A goat is tethered in a triangular field to a square post with a rope N units long, calculate the area of grass the goat can eat"
<awilkins> To "You have a calculator, feed in these numbers, push these buttons, and give the answer you get"
<awilkins> NOT a joke
<awilkins> This was two different exam boards (Dad was a maths teacher) but still..... utterly mental
<AlanBell> awilkins: I think I was about the second year of GCSE too
<dwatkins> we were encouraged to not use calculators at school.
<em> the first problem is very difficult depending on how exact the answer is supposed to be.
<em> Also Im not sure where the post is within the triangular field, or the dimensions of the triangle.
<awilkins> I believe the post was situated such that the border of the field clips the circle that the rope can rach
<em> Even if it is not inside of a triangle it is a difficult problem because as the goat moves around the post the rope gets shorter.
<awilkins> I think you're overanalysing it
<awilkins> These are exams for 16 year olds
<awilkins> But I agree with that to a degree
<awilkins> Some of the homework questions my daughter comes home with are rubbish
<em> So we will assume that the rope is able to pivot around the post.
<awilkins> Vague, multiple different answers, etc
<em> How did Western Society arrive at this point?
<awilkins> I'm going to sound cliched but it's ... "Political Correctness Gorn Maaad!!!"
<em> We are the ones who brought analytic thinking to its sharpest and now we teach our children to consult their feelings while doing algebra to give the answer that seems most right to them.
<awilkins> No Child Left Behind has to be one of the stupidest ideas ever
<em> I thought that was only in the USA
<awilkins> I got into my school through competitive examination
<awilkins> And was setted based on my ability
<awilkins> They still do this in my daughters school I think, but it's a Church school (and makes up for it with teachers who claim that there is actual archaeological evidence of Adam and Eve because they found two people frozen in a block of ice with no belly-buttons)
<Seeker`> 11+ FTW
<em> No Child Life Behind (or similar strategies) are foolish because they treat every person as if they were infinitely flexible, unlimited, and equal. Furthermore, and most of all, it fails to consider the reality of marginal utility and the extra costs of getting the last 20 percent over the arbitrary absolute hurdle.
<awilkins> That particular one nearly sent me into the headmistresses office with my ranting hat on
<awilkins> To Each, His Own is more my opinion
<awilkins> I think the "No Child Left Behind" thing is a combination of envy and fear
<em> envy of what and fear of what?
<awilkins> Clever people
<awilkins> If we start claiming clever people are "better", then where would it stop !?!?!?!1
<awilkins> Ridiculous
 * Daviey wonders if he just walked into #dailymail
<awilkins> They're better at being clever. Not necessarily better at being happy, or good, etc
<oimon> i thought i was in ubuntu-uk?
<IdleOne> fear that a child might not succeed if they aren't automaticaly given a pass grade. Why bother sending them to school at all. just give them a diploma at birth and stop making me pay school taxes
<Seeker`> awilkins: not sure its that exactly. Sure it isn't parents who don't want to believe that their child isn't a special snowflake who is better than everyone else?
<em> I have a more charitable guess at the reasons for it. I think the intentions were probably from a basically okay place.  People don't want to see minorities or underprivildged people falling behind.
<oimon> !offtopic
<lubotu3> #ubuntu is the Ubuntu support channel, for all Ubuntu-related support questions. Please use #ubuntu-offtopic for other topics (though our !guidelines apply there too). Thanks!
<Seeker`> in other news, I have home made cheese straws
<Seeker`> ZOMG GOOD
<oimon> i have never actually looked in offtopic tbh
<nperry> Go there then :P
<AlanBell> it is an interesting place
<oimon> might be too much stimulation for me
<oimon> if i wanted politics i'd watch the telly
<nperry> I blame awilkins
 * awilkins blames himself too
 * MartijnVdS blames it on the boogie
<Seeker`> I think its Daviey's fault
<oimon> i must be the only person running ubuntu software center in lubuntu :(
<awilkins> I'm a Synaptic / apt-get person
<MartijnVdS> oimon: or at all
<oimon>  i like it, but it causes openbox to crash
<awilkins> I only use Software Centre by accident when I download a .deb and can't be bothered to open a terminal
<oimon> its a very nice app and offers recommendations..good for window shopping
<oimon> saw a game today called enternal circle or something, ever seen it?
<oimon> circular chaos unlimited
<gord> i use synaptic/apt-get when i know what i want, software centre when i know what i want to do, but have no idea what app to do it with
<em> I use aptitude
<dwatkins> here comes the downpour...
<em> lucky duck
<em> I need a downpour
<Seeker`> don't think the d in dwatkins stands for 'duck'
<davmor2> Heres a shock I abuse Software Center a lot
<nperry> oimon, do you feel this is more ontopic?
<ali1234> well this sucks. if you install virtualbox additions on windows 8, it won't boot
<dwatkins> em: yes, I will be floating home at this rate
<ali1234> so i can't get file in or out of the vm, and i probably have to reinstall and download the sdk again, then upload it to U1 or something
<dwatkins> ali1234: thanks for the warning
<awilkins> Lovely
<ali1234> U1 is 1GB right?
<awilkins> U1 is 5GB
<ali1234> ok, plenty of room them
<awilkins> Yup, shame about the client
<ali1234> it works on windows 8 right?
<awilkins> Well, there's the web interface
<ali1234> or i have to upload 500MB file through the web interface?
<awilkins> Dunno
<ali1234> i hate windows so much
<awilkins> The client for Windows is .NET so it should work
<awilkins> I meant "Shame about the client" for Ubuntu as well as Windows though
<ali1234> well this VM is screwed
<awilkins> Partially it's "Shame about Ubuntu's proxy support"
<ali1234> unless there is some secret boot command for safe mode
<awilkins> ali1234, Try holding control as the machine boots
<awilkins> Or repeatedly hammering F8
<ali1234> awilkins: you win the prize again
<ali1234> why you know so much about win8?
<directhex> the windows u1 client is Qt iirc, not .net
<awilkins> It's just a windows thing
<awilkins> directhex, Ah, I had a look at the .NET one
<ali1234> i don't think "preparing automatic repair" is helping :(
<awilkins> directhex, They re-implemented it ; I even applied for the job
<ali1234> if this wasn't a virtual machine i would have smashed it by now
<awilkins> directhex, And I confess I've not had a proper try with it because Dropbox works OK for me (just OK ; not as good as it could be)
<awilkins> What they are both missing is support for PAC scripts
<awilkins> I have this idea that Ubuntu should run a system level proxy that presents itself as HTTP / SOCKS  as desired and connect to whatever (HTTP / SOCKS / SSH) at the back
<awilkins> And understand PAC scripts
<ali1234> my ubuntu does do that
<awilkins> And when you put a PAC script in the config, instead of just passing the PAC script to clients asking for the proxy address, it passes the local server address and then your app can use a proxy even if it doesn't understand PAC scripts
<ali1234> i just have an autossh that makes a socks proxy to a vps
<ali1234> i got no idea what a PAC script is tho :)
<awilkins> Proxy Auto Config
<MartijnVdS> a bit of javascript
<awilkins> Yeah, it's just Javascript with some standard functions defined
<awilkins> The problem with that is that most apps don't have a Javascript interpreter in them
<awilkins> Fine for browsers, probably fine for Java 7 (Rhino!) but not for most things
<awilkins> Hence the opinion that the OS should have a small proxy server that does understand it and that when you configure one in the network panel it should direct clients to that instead of just handing them the script file
<awilkins> Winding back a bit, it's one of my big gripes with U1, Empathy, etc, that they don't understand PAC scripts
<awilkins> Or SOCKS proxies configured manually in some cases
<awilkins> A little proxy server that served the whole OS would therefore be great - most things that even understand proxies work OK with HTTP proxies, so it could adapt those to a SOCKS proxy
<awilkins> Things that don't understand proxies AT ALL could be socksified and tunneled through it that way
<MartijnVdS> tsocks \o/
<dogmatic69> how can I list multi processes, been trying various forms of ps aux | grep 'proc1|proc2' but cant seem to get it right
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, Yes, this is the very reason I run tsocks
<dogmatic69> it works with either or, just not both :/
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, But it doesn't work (for me) with Empathy because it's difficult to get it to start in the wrapper, so I install Pidgin as well so I can tsocks it.
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: I only use a socks proxy when ssh -D'ing somewhere
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, Conversely, I ssh -D most of the time to provide a socks proxy  :-)
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: I use it to do remote management of network hardware (*cough*and iplayer*cough* :))
<awilkins> I use it to get around the fact that NTLM auth'ed proxies are stoopid
<awilkins> ntlmaps also works, I suppose
<MartijnVdS> :(
<awilkins> Although you have to fiddle with the default config to get it to work with obligate NTLMv2
<awilkins> I honestly wish I'd never wired our SVN repositories in using mod_sspi as well
<awilkins> Now we want to move them to Ubuntu and it's a right PITA to find a solution that still just transparently auths them on their Windows logins
<awilkins> mod_sspi calls the win32 API so that's a non-starter
<awilkins> It was never very good anyway
<MartijnVdS> Good thing I work in a proxy-free environment
<awilkins> Just another MS monopoly moment
<awilkins> ISA supports NTLM because it locks you into Windows
<awilkins> No earthly reason why they couldn't just transparently proxy port 80 and log your sessions via your DHCP lease if they really must have a per-user log of your web activity
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: they must be sure!
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: multiple users could be logged on on a single IP
<awilkins> Spank them ALL!!!!!
<awilkins> Our DHCP leases have something to do with Windows Auth too
<awilkins> Had to boot some of my systems into Windows once a week to get a DHCP lease inside the network. Once I had it, could go back to Ubuntu...
 * MartijnVdS cries a little
<AlanBell> if 992293200000 is a timestamp, what time is it?
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: Sun, 10 Jul 33414 00:00:00 GMT
<AlanBell> hmm
<AlanBell> how did you get to that?
<dogmatic69> php -r "echo date('Y-m-d H:i:s', 992293200000);"
<dogmatic69> http://www.epochconverter.com/
<dogmatic69> 992293200 is in 2001
<ali1234> "file sync in progress"
<AlanBell> dogmatic69: thanks, that looks about right
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: doubt you have to worry about what ever is happening then :P
<AlanBell> it was a mystery field in a file call "fSub", dates in 2001 are quite a plausible content for it
<dogmatic69> ye, / 1000 gives the 2001 date, which could indicate microtime / ms in the time stamp
<diplo> Any of you guys ever do CyberSEcurity Challenge stuff
<diplo> ?
<Gra_> I have
<diplo> Just trying the Turing Cipher atm
<Gra_> Tried the 1st 3 challenges
<Gra_> but no time anymore
<diplo> Me either, I only do it for fun.. one of my old work colleages came first in a few of the challenges
<diplo> But he spends hours/days/weeks on stuff
<Gra_> Best bet is to look at previous answers to challengers
<diplo> I spend an hour a week if that :D
<diplo> I normally get so far and think i cant be arsed
<diplo> Worked out the morse code now
<Gra_> Remember http://canyoucrackit.co.uk/
<diplo> http://dc3.mil/
<diplo> I'm doing that one atm
<diplo> Friends doing it properly, I'm just seeing if i can do any of it
<ali1234> U1 has sync 3.8/500MB so far... in half an hour
<popey> Whooooooooooooosh!
<gord> zooooooooooooooooom
<davmor2> brrrdupudeboo
<gord> i don't think davmor2's motor is running correctly
<davmor2> gord: that was a fantastic text rendition of R2D2 I think you'll find
<matti> gord: Bio diesel ;d
<ali1234> my U1 is making this noise: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jk2t2hIATCU
<bigcalm> Kill it, kill it with fire!
<MartijnVdS> Ooooh
<MartijnVdS> lots of Bowie on BBC Four tonight
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: ^
<MartijnVdS> Lots and lots*
<davmor2> bigcalm: cheer yourself up with this
<davmor2> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGCEHMT1O0w&feature=related
<andylockran> hey guys, doing a fairly simple python run to read a url, one line at a time from a pubs.txt file, and then check the status code of that url
<andylockran> however, I need to somehow 'escape' the urls I think, and when they contain ? or & it breaks the loop
<bigcalm> andylockran: I know how to do it in PHP ;)
<nperry> urllib.quote() should do it, right?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: eeek. when?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: huh, when?
<brobostigon> woops.
<brobostigon> sorry
<brobostigon> 9pm, :)
<ali1234> ooo 14mb transfered
<AlanBell> did you put a lot of files in the U1 directory?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> i put all of the windows 8 sdk in it
<AlanBell> U1 doesn't seem to like doing lots of work, it sulks for a few days before getting on with it
<ali1234> it;s 500MB
<AlanBell> aquarius or some people in #ubuntuone might be able to explain why it is sulking
<ali1234> probably just horribly overloaded?
<AlanBell> it isn't a server side overload, it is the client just not trying hard
<AlanBell> or spinning the CPU at 100% for hours calculating hashes of files
<ali1234> also the fact i'm syncing between a VM and the host machine probably isn't helping
<AlanBell> could you zip it up and serve it up over http from host to guest?
<ali1234> no cos i'm syncing the other way
<ali1234> i'm trying to get the files out of a windows 8 VM
<AlanBell> ah, so you need to post it from the vm
<AlanBell> ftp?
<ali1234> vbox guest utils destroys windows 8
<ali1234> actually i wonder if the guest can see my NAS
<ali1234> i could just drop it on that
<ali1234> nope
<AlanBell> so what do you have running in the guest? a browser?
<ali1234> U1 client
<ali1234> and a web browser
<ali1234> and the sdk net setup.exe, but that finished ages ago
<AlanBell> http://stackp.online.fr/?p=28
<ali1234> ah it can see my NAS if i type the IP
<ali1234> i'm not uploading 500MB with IE, that's insane
<ali1234> files are now screaming to the NAS
<ali1234> the copy dialog is pretty cool
<ali1234> it's done :)
<AlanBell> yay
<ali1234> er... how do you shut down windows 8?
<AlanBell> with a brick
<ali1234> you press the power button
<ali1234> and it immediately shuts down without asking what you want to do
<AlanBell> gosh, that will confuse people who have been conditioned to press start to stop
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> hmm U1 doesn't preserve file modification dates
<ali1234> ffs it still wants a newer .net runtime
<ahayzen> http://www.ubuntu.com/ is down =-O ... for me anyways
<ali1234> OK! signtool from windows 8 sdk works!
<ali1234> and by works i mean it says it signed the file
<davmor2> ahayzen: up here
<ahayzen> just went back up now :)
<ahayzen> it was down though.. cause the countdown banner wasn't working on my site either
<ali1234> it works!
<ali1234> i managed to get to a situation where the signed code runs but the unsigned code won't
<AlanBell> cool
<ali1234> so he trick is you HAVE to use the windows 8 signtool - nothing else will do
<ali1234> next i need to study what PK and KEK actually mean - it appears you need both of them enrolled for the signed efi to work
<em> ali1234: what are you trying to do?
<ali1234> em: i'm trying to understand UEFI from a layman's perspective
<ali1234> UEFI secure boot that is
<ali1234> since there is so much FUD and very little concrete information
<ali1234> so i'm jumping in at the deep end and setting up a EFI firmware inside a virtual machine, and then making certificates and signing bootloaders to see what works and what doesn't
<ali1234> my notes are here if you are interested: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UEFI
<em> ali1234: wow that's impressive
<ali1234> i spent most of today fighting windows because the only clear documentation of how to sign efi is with windows tools
<ali1234> but apparently alternatives exist, so tomorrow i'll try those
<ali1234> now that i have some idea of how it should go...
<brobostigon> thank you MartijnVdS bowie, bbc4.
<RaycisCharles> MartijnVdS: RIP Oranje.
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Harassment vs. Offense - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/06/22/harassment-vs-offense/
<directhex> http://www.it-buy.co.uk/Harddisk_drives/External_Hard_Drives/Solid_State_HDs/MTFDDAC256MAM-1K1.htm
<directhex> (synchronous nand). it's the OEM version of the crucial m4
<MartijnVdS> RaycisCharles: meh
<RaycisCharles> MartijnVdS: Snjeider out, Van der Vaart in the middle.
<gebbione> anyone knows what this port is used for commonly? 9000/tcp open  cslistener
<MartijnVdS> cslistener! :)
#ubuntu-uk 2012-06-23
<MartijnVdS> cool - the Google Doodle for today is a working turing machine
<MartijnVdS> not as cool as it could have been (i.e. fully programmable) but they turned it into a nice game :)
<ali1234> they solved the halting problem as well
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: that's google for ya ;)
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: They use Linux, which does infinite loops in under 5 seconds
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: the halting problem can't be much harder
<jacobw> morning
<nperry> morning o/
<jacobw> what do to with the weekend?
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: watch david bowie on iplayer/
<jacobw> i am a bowie fan
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: there was 4.5 hours of him on TV last night
<MartijnVdS> \o/ BBC Four :)
 * jacobw works out the vpn details
<MartijnVdS> you're not in UK-land?
<jacobw> i moved to bavaria about a month ago
<MartijnVdS> ah yes you said
<jacobw> ich kann nicht sprache deutsche jetze
<jacobw> aber.. ich learnen
<MartijnVdS> DEUTSCH *bleep*, SPRECHST DU ES?
<MartijnVdS> I wonder if they really did dub Pulp Fiction like that
<jacobw> hehe
<jacobw> i'm supporting germany in the soccer
<MartijnVdS> Are they still in? I don't follow it really
<jacobw> yeah, they've just knocked greece out of the euro ;)
<jacobw> i'm not optimistic oabout england vs italy
<jacobw> i don't think they'll be an england vs germany match
<MartijnVdS> they kicked "our" behind
<MartijnVdS> but Oranje sucked anyway
<jacobw> (which would be the case if england beat italy)
<jacobw> i watched netherlands vs denmark a few weeks ago
<jacobw> somewhat suprising
<MartijnVdS> they missed _every_ shot
<jacobw> i wasn't expecting england to beat sweden
<jacobw> it's inconistent with the ukraine performance :|
 * jacobw thinks that rooney breaks the dynamic
<MartijnVdS> I have no idea
<jacobw> i'm not usually interested in football
<jacobw> people here keep talking to me about it, so i've formed some opinions :|
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: ear plugs ;)
<jacobw> and i have a colleague here with a 60" TV
<jacobw> which is bloody huge :p
<MartijnVdS> I have a 48" one which is huge already
<MartijnVdS> so 60" ... wut
<jacobw> it's crazy, SD looks so bad on 60"
<jacobw> you have to have HD at 60"
<MartijnVdS> yay satellite ;)
<MartijnVdS> also yay bluray
<jacobw> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/de/2005-05-15-raisting_900x460.jpg/800px-2005-05-15-raisting_900x460.jpg
<jacobw> this is the place where i live in bavaria
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: you should get good reception on those :)
<jacobw> :D
<jacobw> satellite has alot of mind share here
<MartijnVdS> yeah, they just switched off analog TV and got a bunch of new HD channels
<MartijnVdS> and they're free-to-air (like the BBC/Freesat)
<MartijnVdS> so _I_ get new HD channels as well
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<jacobw> morning
<brobostigon> morning jacobw
<jacobw> euro gp this afternoon :)
 * jacobw is looking forward to watching paul di resta
<AlanBell> oh look, here is my Terry Pratchett book :)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm :)
<bigcalm> Aha, there is life :)
<bigcalm> And a brief popey
<nperry> At least he visited.
<bigcalm> There he is again. Do you think he's real?
<popey> morning
<nperry> bigcalm, poke him and find out!
 * bigcalm tickles popey
 * popey giggles
<bigcalm> Spooky
<popey> hows everyone doing? :)
<bigcalm> I have a new toy :)
<bigcalm> How's you popey?
<popey> great :D
<popey> oh?
<nperry> Ohhh, http://www.ebuyer.com/222310-seagate-500gb-momentus-xt-2-5-hybrid-ssd-st95005620as
<nperry> Looks like I'm going to get a new toy
<popey> ahh, nperry got the ebuyer spam too
<nperry> popey, nope I just checked hotdealsuk
<nperry> Â£0.12 per/GB is fine for me.
<popey> bigcalm, what did you get?
<popey> AlanBell, did you get compiz built ?
<AlanBell> popey: no
<popey> can I help?
<AlanBell> hope so :)
<AlanBell> so I have a compiz tree based on lp:compiz with some new bits in it
<AlanBell> it does build using the instructions in the INSTALL file
<AlanBell> by creating a subdirectory called build and doing cmake -i ..; make
<popey> i wouldn't do that
<AlanBell> sure, but that confirms that it does compile
<popey> ok
<AlanBell> so I pull a fresh copy of that and the packaging branch from didrocks into a directory next to each other
<AlanBell> I have bzr-builddeb installed
<AlanBell> my directory is called compiz, the didrocks thing is called ubuntu
<popey> same here
<AlanBell> I want to compile the compiz directory using the packaging of the other one
<popey> cd ubuntu
<AlanBell> I can go into the ubuntu directory and do bzr merge ../compiz and it pulls in the stuff I would expect
<popey> bzr bd
<AlanBell> but then it won't build
<AlanBell> bzr bd does something, but which one is it building?
<AlanBell> isn't it building the ubuntu tree without my stuff?
<bigcalm> popey: https://twitter.com/bigcalm/status/216473741734064129
<popey> let me test here
<nperry> bigcalm, it is sexy - isn't it?
<bigcalm> nperry: veryily :)
<popey> guy at work has one of those, i had a play with it
<popey> not impressed, android still sucks
<bigcalm> :)
<AlanBell> yeah, I want my Ubuntu phone based on python
<AlanBell> or a boot to gecko image on my S2
<popey> i see the raspberry jam in london happened last week at the moz place
<AlanBell> yeah
<popey> so is your patched compiz in the compiz dir AlanBell ?
<popey> and do dch -i in there to update the changelog
<AlanBell> yeah
<popey> and debuild -S -sa
<AlanBell> whut
<AlanBell> how is there a debian directory in there now?
<popey> oh duh
<AlanBell> ls]
 * AlanBell is confused
<bigcalm> This isn't the terminal you are looking for
<Daviey> if it's a bzr tree, bzr bd -S .. is what i would do.
<MartijnVdS> bzr: ERROR: unknown command "bd"
<Laney> apt-get install bzr-builddeb
<popey> alan@deep-thought:/tmp/test/build-area$ ls -l *.deb | wc -l
<popey> 17
<popey> \o/
<AlanBell> sure, but which tree did it build?
<AlanBell> I can build didrocks tree
 * MartijnVdS has set up cowbuilder + cowpoke at work
<MartijnVdS> \o/ 32 core buildboxes with tons of RAM
<AlanBell> I don't want to build that, I want to build my tree that doesn't have packaging in it
<MartijnVdS> (and clean chroots)
<AlanBell> do I copy the /debian directory from didrocks compiz tree into my compiz tree? if I do that it complains that it isn't committed but I don't want to add it and commit it or I won't be able to submit a merge proposal
<AlanBell> or do I do some kind of bzr merge ../ubuntu to get the packaging across?
<AlanBell> or is there some other magic command to build one tree based on the packaging in another?
<MartijnVdS> just commit locally and don't push/send a merge request
<MartijnVdS> ?
<MartijnVdS> then after the build, undo the commit?
<MartijnVdS> </guessing>
<AlanBell> maybe, I have tried going down that route but got in a bit of a mess
<MartijnVdS> is building manually (not using bzr-builddeb) an option?
<AlanBell> well that works, but then I don't know how to install and uninstall it and work out whether packaged compiz is running or my new compiz is running
<AlanBell> and also 11:14 < popey> i wouldn't do that
<MartijnVdS> I'd just change the version, add "~alanbell1" or something to the end and rebuild
<MartijnVdS> (in debian/changelog)
<MartijnVdS> it might not be beautiful, but at least you'll know what's running :)
<popey> so you have the source you modified in compiz
<popey> and the packaging branch in ubuntu
<popey> side by side, yes?
<AlanBell> yes
<AlanBell> bzr branch lp:~alanbell/compiz/texttracking compiz
<AlanBell> bzr branch lp:~didrocks/compiz/ubuntu/
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Bzr
<popey> see the "updating a package" and the bit above " building a source package"
<AlanBell> always good to see "Don't cry" on a wiki page
<AlanBell> I don't really follow what it is trying to do :(
<AlanBell> is this the first update?
<AlanBell> I am guessing not, other people have updated it, just because it is the first time I have done it that isn't the initial commit
<AlanBell> Ensure that debian/watch is looking at unstable version if available. Otherwise, update it. (uscan --verbose --report to see what is the latest version corresponding to debian/watch regexp)
<AlanBell> that probably means something
<AlanBell> so this goes on to tell you how to make a patch with quilt, which are the things you attach to bugs and nobody looks at them because you should have done a merge proposal instead :(
<AlanBell> I don't want to do that, I just want to compile my code into a package (or source package I can put in a PPA to build)
<AlanBell> the step after that is # do the traditional hack (One change!)
<ali1234> you should give up on bzr and use compiz upstream instead
<ali1234> it's much much easier to contribute that way
<AlanBell> bzr is compiz upstream
<AlanBell> git is abandonned
<ali1234> well, that depends who you ask
<AlanBell> true
<ali1234> it's more accurate to say that bzr is a fork that has the same name
<ali1234> since nobody has officially announced that compiz is now officially hosted on launchpad
<AlanBell> but I feel I have a better chance of getting a deb file if I use the infrastructure that everyone uses to make deb files
<ali1234> that may be true, but what is so good about a deb file?
<AlanBell> so If I just build this thing and install it, I don't know the relationship between what I have just done, and the packaged compiz I also have installed
<AlanBell> do I apt-get remove compiz first?
<ali1234> so remove the packaged compiz
<ali1234> no, you apt-get purge compiz first
<AlanBell> oh, ok
<ali1234> actually compiz-core
<ali1234> of course unity will then refuse to install because of dependencies
<ali1234> but that's ok, unity doesn't work with compiz upstream anyway
<AlanBell> yeah, do I have to rebuild all of unity whatever I do?
<ali1234> no, it won't work even if you do that
<AlanBell> I am thinking at this point of just throwing in the merge proposal without testing it (other than confirming it builds)
<ali1234> that's what most people do lol
<AlanBell> explains a lot
<popey> thats not true
<popey> AlanBell, speak to sil2100 in -unity on monday
<AlanBell> ok
<popey> he will be happy to help you
<popey> and we can test your change
<popey> what is it?
<AlanBell> text cursor tracking for enhanced zoom
<AlanBell> zoom in, type stuff, it follows you about
<AlanBell> https://github.com/gloob/gloob-Ezoom-fork
<AlanBell> https://github.com/gloob/compiz-accessibility-plugin
<AlanBell> those work as an externally built compiz plugin, I want to get it into Ubuntu
<ali1234> there's no need to put it in compiz core to do that
<ali1234> just package it
<popey> if you put in a merge proposal we can look at it
<popey> we're about to ship a new compiz release
<AlanBell> then it would conflict with the ezoom plugin that is in the base package
<ali1234> why didn't they rename it if it's a fork?
<AlanBell> because it was intended to be merged back in
<AlanBell> which is what I am trying to make happen
<ali1234> renaming it wouldn't preclude merging back the changes
<AlanBell> well, they didn't, and it has been sat on github for ages not getting into anywhere people can actually use it
<AlanBell> https://code.launchpad.net/~alanbell/compiz/texttracking/+merge/111710
<popey> AlanBell, is there a bug filed to request this inclusion?
<AlanBell> bug #727290
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 727290 in Compiz "Allow enhanced zoom to follow text." [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/727290
<popey> I've added it to our list to track
<popey> but ping sil2100 on monday and let him know you'd like to see it in 12.10
<ali1234> i might attempt to backport that to 0.8 just for laughs
<AlanBell> thanks popey
<popey> we'll be a bit busy on monday with SRUs for 12.04, but be good to get it on the radar
<popey> i didnt think anyone was still working on compiz 0.8x
<ali1234> popey: http://gitweb.compiz.org/?p=compiz/plugins/ezoom;a=log;h=refs/heads/compiz-0.8
<AlanBell> what happened to
<AlanBell> Quinn Storm
<popey> lol, so "no"
<popey> AlanBell, quinn is still around it seems
<popey> http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=79158
<kane1309> hello how do i fine out everything about my pc ramp cpu graphics card etc ?
<popey> kane1309, you using ubuntu 12.04?
<ali1234> hmmmmmmmmmm
<popey> kane1309, in a terminal you can do "lshw --html > ~/hardware.html" and then you'll get an html formatted report you can open in a browser
<ali1234> argh this is some grade A microsoft stupidity
<MartijnVdS> Cool, the GPG key for Spotify's apt repo expired.
<ali1234> so you can make a chain of trust within your exe by adding additional certificates
<ali1234> but you can't do it with spc, pfx, or cer files
<ali1234> you have to import all the certificates into MS certificate store
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<MartijnVdS> lock-in is your friend, ali1234
<ali1234> then use a pfx file with the private key and certificate used to sign, and then also specify another command line option for the *root* certificate you want to use. but not the name of it in the certificate store. you have to have it has a .cer file as well
<ali1234> then it will pull all the intermediate certificates from the cert manager and include them
<ali1234> so it is possible, it is just extremely long winded
<ali1234> and this does work in OVMF too
<ali1234> but now, the command to pick a root certificate for chaining... you can only supply it once to sign tool, even though the specification clearly states there can be MULTIPLE chains in the signature
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: Is it better or worse than openssl?
<ali1234> i dunno, can openssl do authenticode signing?
<MartijnVdS> well there's http://sourceforge.net/projects/osslsigncode/
<MartijnVdS> http://wiki.cacert.org/Authenticode ?
<MartijnVdS> https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Signing_an_executable_with_Authenticode ?
<MartijnVdS> oh wait
<MartijnVdS> the last one uses the MS thing
<MartijnVdS> oh it uses mono
<MartijnVdS> at least you won't have to boot Win8 :)
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: the mono code signing tools are too old to sign for EFI
<ali1234> hmm wait a minute...
<ali1234> ok someone on stack exchange is really confused
<ali1234> making a pfx from a spc file does result in all certificates going into the binary
<ali1234> so... no need t mess with the certificate store
<ali1234> and no need to use /ac like this guy is saying
<mattt> mm
<ali1234> and no limitation on the number of chains (in theory, i need to test that)
<mattt> just back from the west berkshire brewery tour, good fun if you can book for the next tour
<ali1234> hmm that's not it either
<ali1234> basically spc files work but it will only process certificates that can be traced back to a certificate in your certificate store
<ali1234> ah, no!
<ali1234> it will only add certificates if it can see the certificate of the issuer
<ali1234> so however much of the chain you put into the SPC file, it always cuts off the first one
<ali1234> that makes absolutely no sense at all
<ali1234> but - whatever
<ali1234> and confirmed with a real test
<danawar2> Hey ubuntu UK i have a live disk that has files on it i want to copy to how do i read these files?
<danawar2> I have a filesystem.squashfs file
<nperry> mount filesystem.squashfs dir_you_want_to_mount_to
<nperry> That should work, irc.
<nperry> Oh, You may need to install squashfs-tools danawar2.
<danawar2> indeed i have just isntall them
<danawar2> trying your mount method first ^^
<kane1309> how would i use a . bat ?
<danawar2> woops
<danawar2> i just mounted it to /media
<danawar2> and unmounted all my other drives
<kane1309> ???????????'
<danawar2> Batch files are not for linux
<danawar2> As far as i am aware
<kane1309> i no is there a way to convert them
<danawar2> hrmm not relly because a .bat is a load of windows commands
<nperry> kane1309, You can port the commands to linux commands..
<danawar2> nperry
<danawar2> It now says i have no permission to make a copy of the mounted file :/
<danawar2> as root
<danawar2> how to i force ownership of an item
<kane1309> what do u mean ?
<danawar2> kane1309:  you would need to rewrite the file as a bash script like change commands dir to ls
<danawar2> that was just an example
<kane1309> in the bat file it has
<kane1309> @echo off title Client java -jar -Xmx512m "play.jar" pause
<kane1309> now what do i do
<nperry> danawar2, give this a go.. Not sure if it will work though. mount -t squashfs-o uid=1000  filesystem.squashfs dir_you_want_to_mount_to - I've got to pop out for 20mins.
<danawar2> ive lost the original now ;/
<danawar2> because it unmounted my other drives haha
<nperry> kane1309,  java -jar -Xmx512m play.jar
<kane1309> thank you
<nperry> As long as play.jar exists and you have java installed.
<nperry> !java | kane1309
<lubotu3> kane1309: To just use java you need a "Java Runtime Environment" (JRE) and/or a browser plugin. If that is not sufficient you will need a "Java Development Kit" (JDK) aka "Software  Development Kit" (SDK).  Please see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Java about how to install one of three current implementations.
<danawar2> What is the damn harddrive manager called un unity xD
<danawar2> unity ruined my life > . >
<ali1234> me too
<ali1234> when you say hard drive manager, do you mean file manager, or partition manager?
<danawar2> partition
<danawar2> sorta
<AlanBell> hit super, type disk
<danawar2> i just wana mount my harddrives lol
<AlanBell> or drive or partition
<danawar2> disk utility
<AlanBell> you might want to install gparted
<danawar2> na it ok disk utility was what i wanted :)
<danawar2> ty
<danawar2> gona just reset machine
<danawar2> i think it is easier xD
<danawar2> than finding out why it wont mount
<kvarley> Can my CPU really be running at 10 degrees Celsius? Or is that a problem with the lm-sensors package?
<ali1234> no it can't
<kvarley> Hmm
<kvarley> Temperature sensor monitoring in Linux is weaker than in Windows
<dogmatic69> kvarley: You most likely have a strange setup, I would think lm-senors works with more hardware than windows
 * bigcalm returns
<dogmatic69> o/ bigcalm
<bigcalm> o/
<bigcalm> popey: free?
<AlanBell> popey: well just slinging in a merge proposal on untested code seems to have worked rather well
<AlanBell> https://code.launchpad.net/~alanbell/compiz/texttracking/+merge/111710
<AlanBell> lots of great feedback
<AlanBell> just wish I knew C++ a little bit :(
<ali1234> oh god the tab formatting
<ali1234> why? why?
<ali1234> seriously i had no idea anybody could be insane enough to mix tab and space indentation in the same file
<ali1234> but i guess it makes sense that if anyone were it would be X11 devs
<bigcalm> It happens when you have more than one dev working on the same files
<ali1234> not like this
<bigcalm> Why vim has the default tab depth set to 8 chars, I have no idea
<ali1234> the indentation levels are: 4 spaces, tab, tab + 4 spaces, 2 tabs, 2 tabs + 4 spaces - and tab stop is 8 characters
<bigcalm> Tasty
<AlanBell> ali1234: yeah, that is an entertaining convention. On the plus side I have the skills to comply with that bit
<ali1234> it;s the worst possible way to do it
<ali1234> all tabs or all spaces will always be indented correctly regardless of tab stop
<ali1234> and considering that it's a scratch rewrite... i can't possibly imagine why you'd pick that convention on purpose for a scratch rewrite
<bigcalm> I don't think that it's intentional
<ali1234> it has to be
<penguin42> ali1234: That actually kind of makes sense
<penguin42> ali1234: It means it's aligning to 4 character boundaries under the assumption that tabs are 8 character alignment and using tabs when it can
<ali1234> yes i know
<penguin42> ali1234: I mean I don't like it, I just can see the reasoning
<penguin42> the only sane alignment is of course 2 sparces
<ali1234> it's still incredibly stupid because it enforces a tab size
<AlanBell> it is kind of the worst of all worlds
<ali1234> the only thing it has going for it is you save 3 byte per indentation level per line
<ali1234> well, actually 1.5
<penguin42> don't you just hate losing half a byte
<ali1234> not in the source code
<ali1234> you could same more by notUsingObnoxiouslyLongCamelCaseNamesForEverything
<penguin42> wellAtLeastCamelCaseUsesLessSpace_Than_obnoxiously_long_underbar_separated_names
<nperry> long camel case method names are fun..
<ali1234> yeah but it is much harder to read
<penguin42> nnnnahhhh
<ali1234> but it's the obnoxiously long part i am against
<penguin42> nod
<penguin42> (although have you ever had to work on an entire project with 1 char variable/function names - it's not fun)
<ali1234> does decompiled machine code count?
<penguin42> no
<nperry> Surely after a while they run out of numbers and letters,
<penguin42> nperry: I ended up printing out a table of all usable letters and characters allowed for eachof the different variable types
<nperry> a = 1; b = 2; function c () { d = a + b; }
<ali1234> what i don't like is when functions have names that describe what they do and also what the arguments are
<penguin42> nperry: oh come on; get rid of the excess spaces
<nperry> penguin42, It makes for easier reading.
<penguin42> It was a BBC Basic project (for schools) on Beeb Micros, so about ~12kB usable RAM
<ali1234> so instead of add(int a, int b); you get addIntegerToIntegerAndReturnTheValue(int the_first_value, int the_second_value);
<MartijnVdS> how java
<bigcalm> Damn you WordPress for using serialised arrays to hold multiple options in your database. Making replacing strings (like URLs) tricky.
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: there's a whole class of C programmers who write code like that too
<directhex> bigcalm: it's easier than XML!
<webpigeo1> If they're storing serialised arrays their database isn't normalised
<bigcalm> directhex: but a serialised array has the char count at the beginning of each value. Eg: ;s:8:"filename";
<bigcalm> I've been trying my best to use replace() within mysql to move a database from one domain name to another. But sometimes it's just not enough. Will have to write a PHP script to handle the arrays, which I didn't want to do
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: Those people deserve pain
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: or at least a stern talking-to
<ali1234> they should be forced to work only on projects where people write functions called add which have exactly two integer arguments and that do something other than add them together and return the result
<ali1234> that way we can get all the terrible coders into the same project and just not use that software
<ali1234> if we're really lucky the two types of awfulness might cancel each other out in a huge flash of pure energy
<penguin42> ali1234: No, that's what operator overloading is for, so you can redefine + to do something arbitrary
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: You'll love the ACME:: namespace of Perl modules :)
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: https://metacpan.org/search?q=acme%3A%3A
<penguin42> oh - haven't seen that?
<MartijnVdS> https://metacpan.org/module/Acme::Nooo
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Wow, that's some of the clearest, most useful, most readable Perl code I've ever seen
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: https://metacpan.org/module/Acme::Bleach
<bou> trying to install ubuntu on a windows machine. two options, install from an installer, while using windows, or a longer process involving a usb installer. windows installer seems easier, what advantages in using the longer process?
<nperry> popey, cute kitten!
<bou> not sure if my post was complete so i'm going to start again ...
<bou> trying to install ubuntu on a windows machine.
<bou> two options, install from an installer, while using windows, or a longer process involving a usb installer
<bou> windows installer seems easier, what advantages in using the longer process?
<bigcalm> Gah, time to descale the kettle
<jacobw> that's a chore
<bigcalm> Not really, just unexpected scale in my tea
<jacobw> it ruins the tea experience
<penguin42> we don't have that problem up here
<bigcalm> Scotland?
<penguin42> Manchester
<nperry> water filters ftw.
<directhex> but soft water tastes yucky
<bigcalm> It's whatever you're used to
<bigcalm> We have Yorkshire tea for hard water, makes a big difference
<bigcalm> Odd, my phone appears in airdroid and my car's bluetooth as a Samsung GT-19300
<penguin42> what is it really?
<bigcalm> Samsung Galaxy S III
<nperry> Hmmm...
<penguin42> is that just the part number for one variaton of the S 3 ?
<penguin42> bigcalm: Yeh, http://phonecomputerreviews.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/samsung-galaxy-s-iii-gt-19300.html#.T-Xt8hUlg3g
<bigcalm> Don't think I'll ever find a more useful app than AirDroid
<nperry> The model number for the S III is the i9300...
<bigcalm> It's an i not a 1, did wonder
<directhex> so where does USC log to?
<directhex> urgh. has anyone successfully installed psychonauts via USC? it gets to 2.1G downloaded then stops progresses, for me
<directhex> extra stupid: aptd doesn't cache partial downloads
<AlanBell> 2.1G !!!
<directhex> huh, apparently USC just isn't updating the progress bar at all. stopping at 2.1G smells like 32-bit failure
<directhex> bloody python
<directhex> i got aptitude to do the install instead
<directhex> 80% [1 psychonauts 3,540 MB/4,426 MB 80%]                                                                                                                                            1,777 kB/s 8min 18s
<directhex> oh jesus, the download's fubar
<directhex> 100% [1 psychonauts 4,843 MB/4,843 MB 100%]
<directhex> er, no
<directhex> redo from start :(
<directhex> finally worked.
<directhex> thankfully it seems psychonauts package was split, so patches to the executable don't mean another 4.4G
<Darael> I'm using Precise, and I can't switch keyboard layouts.  The indicator shows up when more than one layout is set up, and the icon will change if I select another layout from its menu, but the item with the dot in the menu doesn't change and nor does my effective keyboard layout.  I can't change even if I remove the one I'm in from the list, and the extra options don't work.  (mentioned this a few weeks ago, but no harm ...
<Darael> ... trying again, right?)
<jacobw> Darael: that's odd, i'm using Precise and can switch keyboard layouts
<Darael> jacobw: I've had the same problem on several machines.  It seems to be user-account specific, and is happening only on accounts whose default layout before the upgrade was Programmer Dvorak (but the other accounts all had normal UK, so I haven't tested many things).
<ali1234> directhex: do you happen to know if mono will ever include the new signing tool work-alikes from .NET 4.5?
<directhex> what's new in 4.5?
<hamitron> a new signing tool is one feature
<hamitron> ;)
 * hamitron is guessing
<ali1234> directhex: ability to sign HelloWorld.efi. don't ask me why but the signtool.exe from 4.0 won't do it
<directhex> i don't know the difference between the existing signing tools in .NET and in Mono
<ali1234> but really i want to know if mono is ever gonna reimplement signtool.exe the way they reimplemented signcode and chktrust
<ali1234> er... the difference is microsoft deprecated signcode and chktrust and signtool is the replace ment and it is slightly incompatible (for one thing it does sha256 signing while signcode only does sha1 and md5)
<directhex> ali1234, i honestly don't know - a tool to sign EFI binaries isn't really mono's remit as-is, but i'm sure sn.exe could be adjusted
<ali1234> EFI binaries are PE/COFF
<ali1234> signcode from mono can already sign them
<ali1234> it just doesn't sign them "properly"
<ali1234> where "properly" = however microsoft chooses to interpret it's own spec this week
<directhex> file a bug? seems like a great prospect for something to re-use for this job
<ali1234> i have no idea where
<ali1234> i actually tried googling this
<directhex> bugzilla.xamarin.com
<ali1234> and i found a ML post from 2008 that linked to ... ^ that website and when i clicked it it just timed out
<ali1234> so then i gave up
<directhex> xamarin didn't exist in 2008...
<directhex> ximian?
<ali1234> ah could have been yes
<directhex> ali1234, https://github.com/vathpela/pesign is what RH are using for testing
<ali1234> yes, i know
<ali1234> i haven't tried it yet, i'm still figuring out all the idiosyncracies of signtool
<ali1234> specifically i'm trying to figure out why people keep citing "you can only sign a binary with one key" as a reason for doing what they are doing
<ali1234> since while it's technically true, it can always be worked around if you have two keys - you just make a certificate for one of them with the other one
<ali1234> then put both certs in the signature
<directhex> i think the bigger issue is whether EFI instances will parse two sigs correctly
<ali1234> well that's what i'm about to find out
<directhex> and the killer for all this stuff isn't the boot loader or kernel anyway - it's firmware. your GPU needs a signed firmware...
<ali1234> well, actually no - there is only ever one signature - that's the point
<ali1234> but the signature can contain multiple certificates and EFI certainly handles the case where the key that signed the binary needs more than one cert to chain back to a trusted key
<ali1234> and according to the spec is should handle redundant certs and multiple chains back to different root keys
<ali1234> i assume anyone who uses the MS service will get their own signing key and certificate
<ali1234> otherwise they couldn't revoke a single company's key if it was stolen or something
<directhex> ali1234, which efi binary are you signing?
<ali1234> directhex: HelloWorld.efi from tianocore
<ali1234> er... edk2
<directhex> ali1234, compiled with what?
<ali1234> compiled with gcc4.6
<ali1234> for 64 bit
<ali1234> in fact all the instructions you need are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UEFI-howto
<directhex> so gnu-efi. apparently the problem is that it puts gaps between PE-COFF sections, which most signing tools bork on
<ali1234> signtool doesn't
<ali1234> works fine :)
<directhex> indeed. but signcode does
<ali1234> i'm sure there are alternatives that do work, or workarounds
<ali1234> but at this point i'm still trying to determine if there are problems with the standard reference implementations
<ali1234> though i don't really believe there are
<ali1234> ok, signtool actually refuses to sign if you provide it with multiple trust roots
<ali1234> that's pretty lame since it's allowed by the spec
<ali1234> well, i must be doing something wrong, because i just don't believe this can't be done
<nperry> Thats my deed done for the evening... I've passed the corsix-th onto laura cowen... rather than using Virtualbox :D
<bubba> Bubba83
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
<dogmatic69> is there any use for gconf on ubuntu server?
<nperry> dogmatic69, I wouldn't think they'd be much call for it.
<dogmatic69> ye same here
<dogmatic69> I installed inkscape and figured it was from that
<dogmatic69> removed it now, need to use it for .ai -> .svg conversions
<Azelphur> Anyone know where a good place to get distilled or deionised water would be?
<Azelphur> Nobody seems to sell it D:
<dwatkins> Azelphur: I vaguely remember seeing it in a supermarket
<Azelphur> which one? tesco doesn't seem to sell it
<dwatkins> ...for everything else, there's amazon
<Azelphur> yea
<Azelphur> shipping water tends to be expensive though
<mgdm> Azelphur: chemist?
<dwatkins> how about a health food shop?
<Azelphur> mgdm: maybe, will check some :D
 * penguin42 would agree - a chemist should have it; they sometimes use it for making up stuff from powder
<Azelphur> hmm yahoo answers says boiled water = deionised water, sounds scammy :p
<hamitron> Azelphur, garage?
<Azelphur> tried the local garage today, nope :(
<penguin42> yes, well a garage doesn't need something that clean
 * penguin42 guesses Azelphur is putting together a water cooling rid
<penguin42> g
<Azelphur> penguin42: flushing my existing one
<penguin42> ah
<Azelphur> prefer finding a decent supply somewhere cheap
<Azelphur> rather than having to keep shipping it xD
<shauno> if you're looking for it to pure pure / nonconductive, boiling isn't what you're after.  unless you move up to distilling, boiling just kills bio
<Azelphur> yea
<Azelphur> I'm not /too/ worried about leaking, I've reassembled this loop twice now and never had a leak
<hamitron> and if you are doing that, should be using that equipment for something more "useful" ;)
<Azelphur> haha
<AlanBell> Azelphur: a model shop might have some for steam locos
<Azelphur> don't think we have any around here :(
<Azelphur> there's like 3 chemists though so I'm sure one of them will have one
<hamitron> I'm supposed to use deionised water in my steam models?
<hamitron> :/
<AlanBell> yup http://www.hornby.com/shop/live-steam/r8207-live-steam-distilled-water/
 * hamitron facedesks
<directhex> if you don't, you trains will EXPLODE
<shauno> it helps if boiling doesn't leave residue accumulations.  I can imagine a miniature engine looking like the inside of my kettle would be less productive
<hamitron> yeh, I got something to flush it
<Azelphur> gotta clean it all out as my loop has been growing things, http://www.overclock.net/t/1273331/my-water-cooling-loop-seems-to-be-growing-things T:
<Azelphur> D:*
<mgdm> algae of some sort?
<Azelphur> not unless it's super immune to biocide algae
<Azelphur> I sprayed biocide at it, nothing happened
<nperry> Azelphur, have you been to you're local motor factor?
<Azelphur> what's a motor factor? o.O
<nperry> like unipart
<shauno> that doesn't look like bio to me.  sharp corners look like no infection I've ever had (that's not what it sounds like).  bio prefers round clusters
<nperry> or partco
<Azelphur> nperry: never heard of anything like that *shrug*
<nperry> or if all else fails halfords.
<Azelphur> :D
<nperry> They don't sell deionised waters anymore in supermarkets
<nperry> As irons don't really need it anymore.
<Azelphur> hehe
<shauno> I found out boots don't sell homebrew equipment either.  and you really can't buy most chemicals at a chemists anymore.  what is the world coming to
<nperry> Â£3.99 for 5l of water.
<Azelphur> there's more picture of the life forms I'm growing further onto the thread btw
<penguin42> Azelphur: I agree, that doesn't look biological
<penguin42> mind, you I guess nice does curding cheese, but still
<shauno> the structure looks more like flakes than growths.  if it is bio, you've got something much bigger growing inside
<penguin42> you mean those are only the babies and you don't want to see it's dad?
<shauno> well flakes tend to flake off something ;)
<Azelphur> haha
<penguin42> Azelphur: Is it possible a rubber seal or the like has failed and that's what those bits are?
<Azelphur> penguin42: I think it could be, MacG32 on that forum is relatively convinced that it's leeched plasticizer from my tubing, and has photos from my exact tubing to back it up
<penguin42> oh, hadn't thought of plasticizer
<Azelphur> seems like a bad batch of pipe perhaps
<penguin42> or maybe normal behaviour for cheap piping?
<Azelphur> penguin42: could be
<Azelphur> penguin42: I'll buy some decent XPSC piping this time round
 * penguin42 wonders if the stuff they use for medical liquid pumps works
<penguin42> probably not designed to work in as warm an environment as a computer
<shauno> I dunno. most the machines we built basically were computers
<dogmatic69> AAHH!!!
<dogmatic69> I have been having endless issues with my box, web server keeps dropping off the radar
<dogmatic69> I think it is related to 'wpa_supplicant[553]: last message repeated 61 times'
<StevenR> dogmatic69: well, what was the actual message?
<dogmatic69> that seems to show in the logs right around the time server goes down
<dogmatic69> StevenR: that is it, 'wpa_supplicant[553]: last message repeated 61 times'
<dogmatic69> hold...  blade wpa_supplicant[553]: Failed to initiate AP scan.
<dogmatic69> its late :P
<StevenR> dogmatic69: can you pastebin a bit more of your logs please?
<dogmatic69> StevenR: k, give it a minute to log some more
<dogmatic69> StevenR: http://bin.cakephp.org/view/696643950
<dogmatic69> tail -f /var/log/* ^
<dogmatic69> it has not dropped now for 5 minutes... longest in about a week :/
<StevenR> dogmatic69: need to see /var/log/syslog in much more detail please.
<dogmatic69> StevenR: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1056699/
<shauno> probably unrelated, but I'm curious why the wpa lines don't include a hostname? I thought syslogd added those
<dogmatic69> shauno: i previously hacked the wifi in, most likely did not do it properly
<dogmatic69> now using cat5
<dogmatic69> would be good to turn it off but not bothered / dont know how
<StevenR> dogmatic69: if you no longer need wifi, then you could do sudo /etc/init.d/wpa_supplicant stop and then use update-rc.d to remove it from the startup process
<StevenR> dogmatic69: or if you're using network manager to manage your network config, just disable it in that.
<dogmatic69> sudo: /etc/init.d/wpa_supplicant: command not found
<dogmatic69> no network manager, its ubuntu server
<StevenR> dogmatic69: can you disable the wireless interface in /etc/network/interfaces then?
<dogmatic69> I have commented everything in there out
<dogmatic69> well, everything to do with wifi
<dogmatic69> it is now http://bin.cakephp.org/view/1624004382
<dogmatic69> the rest of the config was ssid etc, but commented out now
<dogmatic69> is there somethign to reset?
<StevenR> dogmatic69: you'll need to restart networkin (or reboot) to apply it
<dogmatic69> $ sudo service networking restart
<dogmatic69> restart: Unknown instance:
<StevenR> dogmatic69: try sudo  /etc/init.d/networking restart ?
<dogmatic69> hmm
<dogmatic69> * Running /etc/init.d/networking restart is deprecated because it may not enable again some interfaces
<dogmatic69> it killed it, now cant access the box
 * dogmatic69 goes to kill the power
<StevenR> dogmatic69: it'll come back in a moment.
<dogmatic69> its already rebooted
#ubuntu-uk 2012-06-24
<bigcalm> Boo Beep
<christel> morning
<bigcalm> christel: my darling :) *hugs*
 * christel hugs bigcalm 
<bigcalm> \o/
<christel> IT IS NOT THAT LONG UNTIL RAT! \o/
<bigcalm> Sunday morning hugs are the best!
<bigcalm> Sweeeeeet
<bigcalm> I look forward to getting drunk with you :D
<bigcalm> Remind me to buy your train tickets, I still owe you
<bigcalm> Mmmmm, tea
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<bigcalm> Howdy
<brobostigon> hi bigcalm
<christel> :D
<bigcalm> Poptarts munched, tea slurped. Shower time!
<popey> morning
<brobostigon> morning popey
<daubers> How
<christel> omnom
<christel> popey: your new kitty is very cute
<popey> :)
<MartijnVdS> Nyancat!
<daubers> christel: Did you just eat the popeycat?
<christel> haha
<christel> sssh! ;)
<Neoti_Laptop> hey peeps... can anyone recommend a good SIP Router, what i mean by router is something like opensips thats takes the SIP messages and routes them to an asterisk server based on load etc.... i have asterisk set up in the back end but on the front end i want some thing to load balance requests to differant servers.... i dont want the router to get involved in media just sip set up etc.....?
<bigcalm> I want a kitten!
<MartijnVdS> Neoti_Laptop: so.. a SIP load balancer?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: talk to popey :)
<Neoti_Laptop> <MartijnVdS> Yes. :)
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: I have a feeling that he won't want to give up the kitten he's just aquired
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: he might be able to hook you up with a kitten provider
<MartijnVdS> a purveyor of felines
<SuperEngineer> nomnom - kitten & chips!
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: kittens aren't hard to find
<SuperEngineer> bigcalm: but they are hard to cook!
<SuperEngineer> [morning peeps]
<christel> they are? i can't say i've tried
<MartijnVdS> christel: they won't stay put
<christel> ah yes.. weigh them down perhaps?
 * SuperEngineer imagines popeycat now running to a hiding hole
<gord> getting replacement keys for my thinkpad is really tricky... i thought i'd be able to go on amazon and get a bag of random keys for a few quid or something
<MartijnVdS> gord: replacement keys? you locked yourself out?
<gord> of my thinkpad house?
<MartijnVdS> well a "pad" is a name for a house
<MartijnVdS> "This is my think-pad"
<MartijnVdS> "But I misplaced the keys"
<gord> this joke isn't really working is it? ;)
 * gord sounds the abandon joke alarm
<MartijnVdS> :(
<SuperEngineer> darn! just as I was about to do the "lost private key" becoming a "found public key" front door joke!
<MartijnVdS> :)
 * SuperEngineer cancels facebook party invite to gord's house
<AlanBell> morning all
<AlanBell> oh come round to my house instead then
<AlanBell> no failed jokes here
<jacobw> morning AlanBell
<AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1824/detail/
<Seeker`> AlanBell: careful, someone might turn up!
<AlanBell> yes, please do!
<Seeker`> AlanBell: you're one of the crazy hampshire people?
<AlanBell> nonononono
<AlanBell> surrey
<AlanBell> and crazy, yes
<Seeker`> thats no closer :P
<SuperEngineer> AlanBell - "still crazy after all these years"
<gebbione> what is a good way to see if a program is running and with what options?
<MartijnVdS> gebbione: 'ps' can do it
<gebbione> true i ll run a watch
<MartijnVdS> but programs can change the string ps shows
<gebbione> yea the string is plain :/
<MartijnVdS> gebbione: what are you trying to do?
<gebbione> MartijnVdS, as a linux user i have problems with silverlight streams on akamai, and most important dont know a way to save the streams into a file for later viewing
<gebbione> one of the sites that uses silverlight is rai.tv
<MartijnVdS> that's sort of the point of using silverlight -- making saving harder :)
<gebbione> there is a firefox plugin that uses mplayer
<gebbione> but it does not give a save option
<gebbione> sure, i agree with that only if the streams worked well natively
<gebbione> the problem is that they dont
<gebbione> and i have to look for workarounds for watching them and with these workaround sometimes they dont work
<MartijnVdS> gebbione: do you have the URL of the stream? (mms probably?)
<gebbione> the html that builds the video object is not so straight forward to read
<gebbione> in the network i see. ..
<gebbione> http://adlev.neodatagroup.com/ad/sipra.jsp?loc=rtv_societa^rtv_ballaro_3_1_rect^300x100^^jquery&bt=n&wt=n&jsfuncno=bf1340534699705523(true)&jsfunc=bf1340534699705523(false)&rnd=901161413710&_=1340534699706
<jacobw> ~500ms latency today :(
<jacobw> hey hamitron
<hamitron> hi :)
<SuperEngineer> see you all later folks.  Formula1 brmmm brmmms coverage started ;)
<hamitron> ty for reminder
<hamitron> bbl
<hamitron> :)
<SuperEngineer> hamitron: np enjoy
<MartijnVdS> F1!
<Seeker`> HD F1!
<MartijnVdS> yay
<mattt> afternoon
<Seeker`> MartijnVdS: see that pit stop? 2.9 seconds?!
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: when? :)
<MartijnVdS> I saw a 6.x second one
<Seeker`> MartijnVdS: Hamiltons
<MartijnVdS> ah
<MartijnVdS> yeah McLaren are quick
<MartijnVdS> whoa
<Seeker`> MartijnVdS: whoa at senna?
<MartijnVdS> yea
<MartijnVdS> can someone bring some valium to the commentary box please? :P
 * nperry waves bye to Vettel.
<MartijnVdS> Grosjean winning would rock :)
<nperry> He'll come with the white flags soon.
<MartijnVdS> who? Teflonso?
<nperry> Grosjean.
<MartijnVdS> Incident #5232
<nperry> He has the white flags out there :D
<MartijnVdS> What's up with cars breaking
<MartijnVdS> Vettel, Grosjean
<nperry> Alternator failed on Grosjean
<nperry> Vettel, we prob wont hear until after the race.
<MartijnVdS> nperry: well BBC have Lee, she gets news out of everyone :)
<MartijnVdS> nperry: See?
<nperry> The stewards are being kept busy...
<nperry> HAHAHAHAA
<nperry> That would teach him
<MartijnVdS> Bye bye Hami
<Seeker`> ouch
<Seeker`> that wasn't his fault
<nperry> Seeker`, Hamilton forced him off the track..
<Seeker`> nperry: no he didn't
<Seeker`> Maldinardo tried to go round the outside of him in to the corner, and ended up off the track, and then turned in to hamilton
<nperry> I believe he did. Hamilton had some room to move over.
<Seeker`> He could have moved over, but he didn't leave the racing line
<nperry> But then again I'm not a fan of Hamilton.. I don't like his driving attitude.
<Seeker`> He has no obligation to move off the racing line to let someone else in
<Seeker`> Hamilton has been far more mature this year
<nperry> Yeah but i still remember last year, I give him that this year has been better.
<Seeker`> he's been a different person this year imo
<s-fox> Hi :)
<jacobw> hey fox
<jacobw> lo SuperEngineer
<SuperEngineer> lo2u jacobw
<SuperEngineer> Microsoft Blocks FSF Donation Website As a 'Gambling Site'
<SuperEngineer> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/12/06/24/1325241/microsoft-blocks-fsf-donation-website-as-a-gambling-site?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Slashdot%2Fslashdot+%28Slashdot%29
<SuperEngineer> [sorry - should have short-url'd that]
<penguin42> haha
<gord> more realisticly, automated bot makes mistake, slashdot puts another layer of tinfoil on their crazy hats
<RaycisCharles> SuperEngineer: another example of how Slashdot trolls for pageviews.
<RaycisCharles> gord, exactly.
<RaycisCharles> Accidentally blocking sites happens all the times when maintaining content filter blacklists.
<SuperEngineer> slashdot = slashtrot ;)
<SuperEngineer> keep an eye on newsfeed few the occasional gem tho - like that little foopah
<RaycisCharles> Also, who cares about the FSF anyway? It's like finding out the cops busted a lemonade stand.
<SuperEngineer> RaycisCharles: now who's the troll!!!
<SuperEngineer> RaycisCharles: u?
<RaycisCharles> I'm a Windows/VMWare sys architect, what do you expect?
 * SuperEngineer guffaws
<SuperEngineer> [& passes on his pity]
<RaycisCharles> Yes, I wish I knew how to architect technologies as usable, capable and popular as Ubuntu and KVM.
<s-fox> Hi jacobw , sorry didn't see ping because missed the s on my irc nick :)
<s-fox> How is everyone?
<AlanBell> hi s-fox
<s-fox> Hi AlanBell  :)
 * penguin42 is rather sleepy today
 * bigcalm returns
<mgdm> o/
<daubers> Lawn mowed with only one medical incident!
<penguin42> to whom?
<mgdm> the grass :(
<daubers> Me. Burnt myself on the exhaust while changing the cutting height
<mgdm> eep
<penguin42> daubers: You know the problem there don't you?
<daubers> penguin42: No?
<penguin42> daubers: You've got a mower with an exhaust
<daubers> penguin42: Heh :) I borrowed one as it was a bit of a jungle! Leccy mower would have struggled
<bigcalm> mgdm: ta for the single char last night. It allowed me to write a script for updating a WordPress database after it has been moved to a new domain (bloomin' serialised arrays as table variables)
<mgdm> bigcalm: cool - glad it helped
<DJones> Afternoon all
<alexcockell> Hi all...
 * bigcalm throws his code onto his ranty blog for people to mock :)
<DJones> Hows the new phone bigcalm
<mgdm> bigcalm: show me :)
<bigcalm> mgdm: http://www.myrant.net/2012/06/24/updating-a-wordpress-database-with-new-domain-details/
<bigcalm> DJones: very pleasing :)
<DJones> I'm jealous, probably going with that one in November, unless something better comes along
<bigcalm> mgdm: it requires a lot of refactoring, but it works :)
<bigcalm> Afternoon, popey
<bigcalm> DJones: Hayley doesn't like me having a new phone. She's now looking to replace hers
<popey> hello
<DJones> bigcalm: We're the same, Emma has been looking at phones for the last 6 months despite our contracts running until November
<mgdm> afternoon popey
<bigcalm> mgdm: no mocking? :P
<mgdm> bigcalm: not reafd yet, on the phone :)
<bigcalm> Fair enough :)
<bigcalm> Yikes, it's gone 7pm
<mgdm> every time I go to write a blog post I end up fiddling with the CSS instead
<mgdm> bah
<bigcalm> Hehe
<bigcalm> One of the reasons why I use an existing CMS and theme
<mgdm> Mine's all custom now
<bigcalm> I started out that way
<mgdm> well, the HTML is - it's generated by Jekyll, which I didn't write
<mgdm> it entertains me to have to type 'make' to rebuild my blog
<bigcalm> o.O
<alexcockell> Curious as to why IRC throws me out..
<bigcalm> Maybe it wants you to have a productive life ;)
<mgdm> Yeah, that 'peer' guy is big on productiviy
<bigcalm> Question
<mgdm> Answer
<bigcalm> Retort
<mgdm> Counter Retort
<bigcalm> Which will make me more productive tonight? a) ale, b) wine
<mgdm> Observation that you create a vacuum
<bigcalm> I'd have to trawl bash.org to find more of that conversation
<mgdm> hehe
<mgdm> and as to your question, I have no idea
<bigcalm> Och
<mgdm> Aye the noo?
<bigcalm> If you insist :)
 * bigcalm goes to eat left over enchiladas instead
<bigcalm> Old Elpaso make it look as though I'm a really good cook
<alexcockell> LOL
<alexcockell> Oh - who else is unaffected but watching the Natwest debacle?
<DJones> alexcockell: I'm affect at work, can't access info on our accounts for the last 2 working days
<alexcockell> Ah.
<alexcockell> Been reading the followign Register thread about it - http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/4/2012/06/22/rbs_natwest_outage_fourth_day/
<penguin42> someone there must have been having an awful week
<alexcockell> yup..
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Iain Cuthbertson] Updating a WordPress database with new domain details - http://www.myrant.net/2012/06/24/updating-a-wordpress-database-with-new-domain-details/
<DJones> Has the wendyball finished yet?
<penguin42> don't think so yet
<DJones> Damm
<penguin42> TV this summer is mostly going to be complete balls
<penguin42> footballs, tennis balls, and various types of olympic balls
 * bigcalm returns
 * DJones wonders at times if he's the onle male in the UK that couldn't give a monkey's about football
<DJones> s/onle/only/
<penguin42> DJones: Well, there are at least 2 of us
<Seeker`> a monekys about what?
<Seeker`> never heard of this 'football' :P
<DJones> yay, I'm not alone
<alexcockell> BBC4's got a Julius Caesar variant running
<MartijnVdS> alexcockell: set in "a modern African state", according to the website
<ali1234> the UEFI specification makes no sense and contradicts itself :(
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: it was written by a committee and Microsoft. What did you expect?
<ali1234> i didn't expect any different
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: what's your complaint specifically?
<ali1234> section 27.5 says that "The authenticated UEFI variable that stores the key exchange keys (KEKs) can always be read but
<ali1234> only be written if: The platform is in user mode and the provided variable data is signed with the current PKpriv;
<ali1234> or if The platform is in setup mode."
<mgdm> 'KEKs' *snigger*
<ali1234> but section 7.2.1 says "If the variable is the global PK variable or the global KEK variable, verify that the signer's
<ali1234> certificate chains to the Platform Key."
<penguin42> most security docs are like that
<ali1234> additionally
<ali1234> 27.7.3 says "authenticated UEFI variables that store the signature databases (db, or dbx) can always be read but can only be written if: The platform is in user mode and the provided variable data is signed with the private half of a previously enrolled key exchange key (KEKpriv), or the platform private key (PKpriv);"
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: assume the most restrictive one is true
<MartijnVdS> or whatever windows does
<ali1234> windows does not have PK or KEK keys
<ali1234> it just has certs that are trusted
<ali1234> and revoked certs that are not
<MartijnVdS> then good luck with this :)
<MartijnVdS> don't expect bios builders to build this
<penguin42> ali1234: Looked at the code?
<ali1234> wait i understand it. "global KEK variable" means the KEK database as a whole
<ali1234> yes, i've looked at the code. it follows the less restrictive interpretation
<daubers> fds
<daubers> stupid ssh sessions
<Azelphur> ali1234: did you see ASIC just hit
<MartijnVdS> hmm
<MartijnVdS> if I watch TV on the same transponder/sat as I'm tuned to from my PC, the PC loses 5% signal strength
<alexcockell> Ummm - ASIC???
<Azelphur> alexcockell: tis bitcoin stuff
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: mining asic?
<alexcockell> Ah; never been anywhere near that stuff.
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: yea
<Laney> can someone try www.nwolb.com please?
<Laney> I don't think it is down, but there is something up with SSL here.
<Azelphur> Laney: wfm
<Laney> on which browser?
<Laney> "Error 107 (net::ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR): SSL protocol error."
<Azelphur> chromium
<popey> chrome is fine here
<Laney> hmmmmmmmm
<mgdm> WFM
<Laney> broken on both FF and chromium for me
<Laney> quantal.
 * Laney sees a ca-certificates update
<popey> fine in chromium on quantal here too
<Laney> [5674:5695:101097611225:ERROR:ssl_client_socket_nss.cc(1534)] handshake with server www.nwolb.com:443 failed; NSS error code -5938, net_error -107
<Laney> get it on both of my machines :(
 * Laney fires up a vm
<Laney> O_O
<MartijnVdS> o_O
<popey> O_O
<mgdm> à² _à² 
<MartijnVdS> (â¯Â°â¡Â°)â¯ï¸µ â»ââ»
<dogmatic69> how can I run tcpdump on a remote machine and not have all the stuff showing from the ssh connection streaming the tcpdump
<popey> :)
<popey> http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/linux-monitor-all-network-traffic-except-ssh-port-22/
<popey> first hit for "tcpdump exclude ssh" on google :)
<dogmatic69> eh
<dogmatic69> that site comes up for anything linux related
<Daviey> ettercap is another tool that supports regex style limiting
<MartijnVdS> tshark/wireshark++
<MartijnVdS> capture everything, then ignore the ssh strea
<MartijnVdS> m
<Daviey> Laney: confirmed, FF and Chrome, up-to-date Quantal.. works here.
<Laney> yeah I tried loading it in The Cloud and it worked, but broken on both of my machines
<Laney> weird eh
 * Laney remembers there is a cheeky macbook air running precise
<Laney> â¦ which is also broken in the same way â¦
 * Laney gets suspicious
<Daviey> "The Cloud"... i love it.
<Daviey> Laney: do a proxy check..
<Laney> how?
<Laney> I do indeed now suspect skulduggery from vM
<Laney> VM
<Daviey> Laney: google for "proxy check" :)
<Daviey> I've started VPN'ing all my traffic, as i don't really trust my ISP.
<Daviey> </paranoid>
<Laney> Daviey: I see, you mean like that. Apparently not. I did think that virgin had one, but this site is SSL.
 * Laney should do the VPN thing
<Daviey> Laney: Squid recently added support for SSL MITM'ling.. whic freaks me out.
<Daviey> http://wiki.squid-cache.org/Features/SslBump
<Laney> Huh, that is scary
<Laney> I wonder if employers would have to inform you if they're doing that
<ali1234> you can just look at your certificate store
<ali1234> if you see "FooCorp certificate for SSL snooping" then you know they are doing it
<Laney> yes, most people definitely know to do that
<ali1234> if you don't, and they try it, you'll get a big fat "untrusted certificate" warning on any SSL website
<ali1234> most people don't understand https to start with and either assume all traffic is secure by default no matter what, or all traffic is insecure by default no matter what
<Laney> oh, that's ok then
<ali1234> if people don't understand certificates, then they wouldn't understand if the employer told them either
<ali1234> so yeah it would be nice of them, but largely pointless
<Laney> wtf
<Laney> you think it is impossible to express it in a simple way?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> it's impossible to make it simple enough that people would understand it in combination with all the other "simple" guides to internet security out there
<ali1234> ie it's impossible to simplify it without making it contradict everything people have previously been told about security
<ali1234> the only way to understand it is to actually really understand it properly
<Daviey> "To maintain corporate internet useage policy (filtering), and to make best use of our bandwith; we intercept https connections.  This means that we can technically see your 'secure' content - such as online banking"
<Daviey> sans typos
<dogmatic69> ok, my issue I have been having with server dropping out all the time seems to not be the server but rather my pc :(
<ali1234> Daviey: "but the help screen in internet explorer says that https connections cannot be intercepted"
<dogmatic69> Tracking traffic with tcpdump, when its breaks there is nothing being sent at all.
<daubers> Daviey: YOU'RE screening my interwebz?
<Daviey> daubers: Indeedy
<daubers> Daviey: So thoes Ninjas... I didn't mean to send them to you....
<Daviey> daubers: And i'd share with the rest of the channel what you had been recently looking at.. but it's not family friendly.
<Daviey> Those poor goats, is all i can say.
<daubers> Daviey: That's your browser history! Not mine
<Daviey> daubers: next you'll be saying it was for 'research purposes'.
<daubers> Daviey: Maybe it was.....
<daubers> Bah, why can't all circuit boards have 0.1mm seperated headers. Would make my life a lot easier
<daubers> or 1mm even
<daubers> ****OUT OF TEA ERROR****
<ali1234> because the standard is 0.1 inched
<Daviey> Laney: TBH, if it's a 'work maintained' machine.. i'd expect them to have vnc (or equivalent).. making https almost as insecure.. so it's no massive change.
<daubers> ali1234: In this house we respect the laws of thermodynamics and the metric system
<Laney> Daviey: Indeed (and that does have to be in a computer code of use AFAIK). It just makes it easier to automate.
<Laney> (and to process the results)
<ali1234> http://al.robotfuzz.com/playing-with-uefi-secure-boot-part-2-basic-authenticode-signing-with-ms-tools/
<em> aren't you guys watching the football?
<Laney> sure am
<ali1234> NO
<daubers> Whatball?
<popey> cricket without bats daubers
<daubers> popey: Surely that's not legal?
<daubers> (although it's been some time since I listened to the cricket I have to admit)
<bigcalm> Git people who run private local repos! What's your favourite web interface?
<ali1234> gitweb
<bigcalm> ali1234: for personal use only, or do you protect bits for members to view stuff?
<ali1234> i don't share proprietary code
<ali1234> let me put that another way
<ali1234> i only share code publicly or not at all
<bigcalm> OK
<bigcalm> I'm sure I can lock things down with a .htaccess file
<jacobw> and england are out :)
<diddledan> true to form
<diddledan> so is that hodgson out of a job now? :-p
<popey> looks like bed time
<bigcalm> Is there a web interface to manage merge requests in git?
<AlanBell> like github?
<bigcalm> AlanBell: yes, like it for privately hosted git repos
<AlanBell> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/438163/whats-the-best-web-interface-for-git-repositories
<bigcalm> AlanBell: just been there
<AlanBell> I was looking there the other day
<bigcalm> I have gitweb running, but it only lets you view. Doesn't offer management tools
<AlanBell> went with redmine which isn't quite the same thing
<bigcalm> gitorious looks nice
<bigcalm> Ug, getting tired
<ali1234> hmm you know i just noticed that tiano doesn't actually follow the EFI specification
<ali1234> quote "If the imageâs signature is not found in the authorized database, or is found in the forbidden database, the image will not be started and instead"
<ali1234> that isn't true. OVMF will run an image if it is signed with the KEK certificate, even if it's signature is not present in the authorized database (DB)
<ali1234> however, it won't run it if it is signed with PK
<ali1234> either PK or KEK should allow signatures to be added to the DB
<ali1234> the spec says nothing about allowing an image to run if it is signed by an enrolled KEK
<ali1234> it also says nothng about disallowing an image that is signed by PK but not KEK
<ali1234> it does however say that DB updates may be signed with either KEK or PK
<ali1234> so if signing the image with KEK implicitly allows it to run because the signer could have added the sig to DB, then signing it with PK should have the same effect
<ali1234> but in the implementation it does not
<AlanBell> ali1234: I think it might be a good thing to send some of your investigations to the ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com list
<ali1234> i will do, when i've got everything straight
<AlanBell> great
<ali1234> i'm building a set of batch files to automatically generate the keys, certificates, and binaries for the tests
<ali1234> you can help by following along and checking i have not made any obvious mistakes
<AlanBell> great, but now I am off to bed. Night all o/
<bigcalm> Beddybies time :) o/
<ali1234> LOL
<ali1234> so on page 40 of the efi signing document they attempt to show what happens if you try to run an unsigned efi binary with a screenshot
<dogmatic69> Ok, I keep getting something like '192.168.0.3 > 192.168.0.2: ICMP 192.168.0.3 udp port 2032 unreachable'
<ali1234> except that the screenshot clearly gives the "command not found error" rather than the "access denied" error you get when you actually try it
<dogmatic69> after that I can not load web pages from the box via chrome
<ali1234> dogmatic69: that's crazy
<dogmatic69> anyone know what ICMP is?
<ali1234> yes
<dogmatic69> :/
<dogmatic69> what?
<ali1234> it's the packet type used to establish a connection
<dogmatic69> ah ok
<ali1234> like if you try to connect to an unopen port, the server sends back a "connection refused" message, right?
<ali1234> well that message can't be sent over tcp or udp because those require a port
<dogmatic69> 192.168.0.2 is a blade server I use for web dev at home, its running bind9 catching *.dev and passing anything else
<ali1234> and since there is no port, that won't work
<dogmatic69> every now and then the site is unavaiable
<dogmatic69> and that seems to happen at the exact moment
<ali1234> so it is sent using ICMP instead
<dogmatic69> ok
<dogmatic69> once this connection drops no amount of F5 does anything. there is no tcp traffic at all
<dogmatic69> or udp, tcpdump is just quiet
<ali1234> i don't use chrome
<dogmatic69> then it seems I get http://bin.cakephp.org/view/2003453668
<dogmatic69> and it works again
<dogmatic69> well the bit after un reachable
<ali1234> look at that ARP stuff
<dogmatic69> its normally down for 10 20 seconds
<dogmatic69> ARP?
<ali1234> your blade server is disappearing off the netwrk for no good reason
<dogmatic69> well ssh still works
<ali1234> who knows?
<dogmatic69> I can ls in another terminal
<ali1234> also why do you have a blade server in your house?
<dogmatic69> for dev
<ali1234> what's wrong with just using a normal computer?
<ali1234> btw if ARP goes away for some reason established connections persist, just new ones break
<dogmatic69> takes up much more space, blades are cheap and its closer to the real deal come deploy time
<ali1234> there's a lot of ways that can happen
<dogmatic69> hmm
<ali1234> and they all involve misconfigured networks
<dogmatic69> I have been apt-get removing everything possible
<ali1234> for example, mac address conflict or ip address conflict can cause weird stuff like this to happen
<ali1234> it won't be caused by a package
<dogmatic69> I have mostly everything on a fixed IP
<ali1234> it will be caused by something specific that you did, either that or the hardware is faulty
<dogmatic69> will look for some conflicts
<dogmatic69> Ill try reboot the router then
<ali1234> i doubt that will help
#ubuntu-uk 2013-06-17
<knightwise> mornin !
<knightwise> hey TheOpenSourcerer !
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning
<knightwise> how are you today
<TheOpenSourcerer> Fine thanks. In the office already. Coffee #2 underway
<knightwise> I should probablu look into that too
<popey> morning
<knightwise> popey: are you familiar with reports that 13.04 is considered "slower to beoot" then 12.04 ?
<popey> knightwise: nope
<knightwise> hmm .. must be me then. i'll give it another try tonight (running ubuntu on the macbook air)
<czajkowski> aloha
<Gary> hey everybody!
<Gary> My name is troy McClure, you may know me from other documentries such as "how to tame your trouser snake" and "what to do in the case the zombies take over"
<popey> knightwise: is this a machine which has had 12.04 and 13.04 on it ?
<popey> i.e. comparing apples with apples (lol)
<knightwise> correct
<kvarley-work> 13.04 64 bit - Dell Inspiron 14z - On some boots the audio stops working and just lists "Dummy Output". I think it may be related to me using HDMI. Any ideas on how to fix this?
<popey> kvarley-work: i have seen that sometimes
<popey> can you restart pulseaudio, does it then work? "pulseaudio -k"
<kvarley-work> popey: Doesn't appear to fix it. I've seen some threads suggesting it's a kernel issue
<popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/294016/no-sound-in-ubuntu-13-04-only-dummy-output-device-listed
<DJones> kvarley-work: popey: I've had the same issue on my laptop using internal sound on a HP laptop, a reboot seems to fix it
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Eat Your Vegetables Day! :-D
 * DJones eats bacon as its a fruit of the pig
<diplo> Morning all
<diplo> Oooh I had that issue kvarley-work / popey
<diplo> I have a bug open, not been in my pc recently though to look at it.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<diplo> Morning bigcalm
 * bigcalm can smell the coffee!
<bigcalm> But will it wake me up?
<diplo> Irssi users, in my channels I have letters/numbers assigned to channels, so t = 15 and so I do alt t to show that window
<diplo> Channel # 20/21 don't have a number / letter assigned to them so I can change
<hd5770> god damn ubuntu
<SuperMatt> diplo: you can do /win <number>
<SuperMatt> of course, you could also alias /w to /win
<SuperMatt> or what I've done in the past /1 goes to window 1, /2 window 2, etc
<SuperMatt> so create an alias of /20 which runs /win 20
<diplo> kk ta, will look up aliases shortly
<SuperMatt> I don't know how you can cope to be in so many channels though
<diplo> :D
<diplo> I used to be in 5/6
<SuperMatt> I start closing down everything I'm not looking at at least a couple of times a day
<diplo> I don't read in others that often, but what I've found is I've found out loads of useful stuff by idling in some
<christel> diplo: you can just alias them to whatever shortcuts you want
<christel> i just do /number for 1-500 :s
<diplo> Never needed it till now :) ta
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<brobostigon> hey knightwise
<bigcalm> Can an alias be a regex? Like /\d?
<SuperMatt> huh, there was a fix in fail2ban which hasn't been sent downstream yet
<SuperMatt> oh, it's hit saucy, but not precise
<diplo> Any LDAP experts/knowledgable people in here ?
<mungbean> not very
<mungbean> just working knowledge
<diplo> I'm basically just trying to set up a system at work
<diplo> But want advice on how to structure it
<diplo> My googling seems to be confusing me more than enlightening me :)
<mungbean> you might save time to setup a zimbra server and see how it does it for you :)
<diplo> Will take a look at that as well then I guess
<diplo> What do you store in your ldap db mungbean  ?
<mungbean> passwd , nfs mounts
<mungbean> autohome info
<mungbean> e.g. desktop user can type /misc/mathematica and auto mounts that dir and runs the application
<diplo> OK, more than I was going to use ours for :)
<mungbean> just passwd then?
<diplo> More going to be for contact information/logins etc for internal systems
<diplo> And storing customer info etc
<diplo> So I want to point our phone system at the ldap, our bug software/faq software etc
<diplo> So that data is consistent across all of our applications etc
<mungbean> ah ok, there's some howtos out there for it
<mungbean> did that abotu 10yr ago though
<diplo> yeah, they're all a bit different, no real consistency.. my main Q is how I should structure it I guess
<mgdm> I stopped doing LDAP stuff right around when OpenLDAP moved all its config inside the LDAP tree
<diplo> Can't think of any other way for the phone to interact.. can get round all the other issues apart from that
<advancedgarde> For anyone who is aware of my earlier post (or interested) I let badblocks run in read only-mode, no errors detected. Smart still shows 65535 sectors pending remapping - so I feel this strengthens the case for a firmware but. I'm going to run a low level format using WingDLG and I'll post back on here if I have any success.
<Darael> mgdm: (a little late) There's a reason there was a post in the Monastery a couple of years ago with subject "LDAP" and (entirety of) body "can [sod] off."
<mgdm> :D
<Darael> Well, there are several.  One of them is that the Scary Devil Monastery is inhabited by grouchy sysadmins, but that isn't what I meant.
<mgdm> That became my assessment, too. I know enough to build a mail server with it, and perhaps some Asterisk stuff, and the entire time I did it I was thinking "Why can't I just use a DB with SQL?"
<mgdm> I'm not aware of this Monastery, but i suspect I'd get on with some of their opinions
<Darael> Few are who don't frequent Usenet.  And how many do that, these days?
<mgdm> It's been more than a a couple of years for me sadly
<DJones> Right, its officially summer, just had a dodgy looking white van driven past the office with "Whigfield - Saturday night"  blasting out of the speakers & windows
<mgdm> oh my
<mgdm> </takei>
<DJones> To complete the sentance, 'Oh my aching head' :)
<popey> watched Star Trek II the other day. When I saw Takei on screen my gut reaction was to lower my voice and say "Oh myyyyyy!"
<mgdm> \o/
<mgdm> I need to watch the original ST II again
<mgdm> not seen it since the new one
<brobostigon> yes, 2/3/4 are definatly the best ones.
<brobostigon> wrath,search,voyage.
<mgdm> I like 6 too
<brobostigon> undiscovered country?
<mgdm> Yeah
<brobostigon> my favorite of the TNG films, is certainly first contact.
<popey> yeah, i liked first contact too
<mgdm> aye
<brobostigon> jonathen frakes injected some good humour into it, like nimoy did in voyage home.
<advancedgarde> Oh cool, star trek fans ^^
<advancedgarde> I've been watching TOS films in order prior to watching into darkness
<advancedgarde> I'm on generations at the moment.
<popey> I'm going the other way, i watched Into Darkness recently, now going back over the old ones
<advancedgarde> Not many of my friends seem interested in watching into darkness - so that's one of the main reasons I've not seen it yet.
<advancedgarde> Seeing Man of Steel tonight.
<popey> i watched Into Darkness with daviey while waiting for my car to be fixed
 * popey notes daviey isnt here
<bigcalm> We all know that the film of 2013 will be Despicable Me 2
<advancedgarde> I'm new on ubuntu-uk IRC so I don't know many people here.
<popey> advancedgarde: welcome â»
<bigcalm> advancedgarde: then stay longer :)
<popey> we dont have many in real life meet ups
<popey> but a few here and there
 * popey pokes AlanBell 
<bigcalm> Mmmmmmmmm, ale
 * popey wonders if the team needs a kick in the butt
<knightwise> popey: did you like into darkness ?
<bigcalm> RAT then oggcamp and my wedding. what else do we need?
<advancedgarde> Thank you ^^ I will attempt to do so. I want to get more failure with ubuntu over the summer. I switched to ubuntu from BSD in ... 2008 for the home server. I also use it to fix my (and friends) windows machines when they die, but I'm not currently using is as a day to day desktop OS/
 * bigcalm notes that tickets have sold out for the RAT in September
<popey> knightwise: yup
<popey> bigcalm: my tickets finally arrived
<popey> after i got them to send me reprints
<bigcalm> popey: phew!
<bigcalm> popey: The rotters
<advancedgarde> I need to go now, I have to go to uxbridge to drop off my old house keys.
<christel> popey: we should do a brewery tour!
<christel> (she says, inspired by spending friday evening at the hogsback brewery)
<christel> (they were very generous with their ale...)
<christel> (and i presume alan will do an ubuntubbq soonish)
<bigcalm> Distillery tour of Scotland!
<christel> bigcalm: ok, you're driving the minibus so we can all drink between distilleries!
<christel> <3
<bigcalm> christel: you think we'll have the proper british weather for a bbq?
<popey> advancedgarde: ttfn
<christel> rain? yeah, i am sure we will!
<christel> :P
<bigcalm> :D
<bigcalm> I wonder if it would be worth my while getting minibus added to my driving licence
<davmor2> bigcalm: but then you can't drink :P
<bigcalm> davmor2: ever again?
<davmor2> bigcalm: no if you are driving the minibus
<bigcalm> I thought drinking while driving a minibus was a requirement
<davmor2> bigcalm: just bribe me to drive it :D I already have the license and I don't drink :)
<bigcalm> What shall I get my soon to be 36yo sister?
<christel> a minibus!
<bigcalm> o.O
<bigcalm> christel: have you been on the gin?
<bigcalm> I'm already on the wine
<bigcalm> It's a very recent vitage
<bigcalm> vintage
<bigcalm> They are still grapes *munch*
<christel> bigcalm: nej. i had some milk earlier, does that count?
<bigcalm> christel: "milk" eh? ;)
<christel> yus, ice-cold semi-skimmed cravendale, went perfectly with my pancakes for breakfast!
<hd5770> man how do you install ubuntu alone side windows and both OS's happy
<DJones> hd5770: In what way do you get unhappy OS's?
<davmor2> hd5770: what version of windows?
<hd5770> win 7 i lose boot load for or the other
<DJones> hd5770: For Win 7, all I did was to use Win 7 to resize the Win partition, and then boot with a liveUSB letting that partition the freespace & install with grub on the single drive
<davmor2> hd5770: what DJones said,  Install win7, reduce it's partition size, then install Ubuntu into the free space,  you will then see an ubuntu and windows listing in a grub menu just point to the one you want to run
<bigcalm> Or, if you have 2 harddrives, use one for windows and the other for ubuntu. Saves faffing about with resizing partitions
<DJones> Must admit, I can never bring myself to trust a linux installer to correctly shrink an NTFS partition without issues, I'd rather trust Windows (as a native format) to do that
<DJones> As bigcalm said, use two drives where possible, just make sure you put grub on the right boot drive
<popey> I've never had a problem resizing an NTFS partition in Linux
<DJones> I'm not saying I would have an issue, its not something I've tried, just a case using a native tool at the time, haven't needed to do it for a few years anyway
<ali1234> i have seen linux ruin a NTFS partition just by mounting it
<bigcalm> But I've never seen an elephant fly
 * bigcalm lunches
 * DJones passes bigcalm a Disney's Dumbo video
<hd5770> damn i used ubuntu to do the resize
<hd5770> now i got bad blocks on my ssd
<hd5770> win7 loader is at /devb/sdg1 when i install grub there windows loader no longer works
<mungbean> how did it come to this? firefox regularly taking out my desktop for 15 mins due to disk trashing
<mungbean> and out of mem
<dubaco_1> hi android not connecting via usb can anyone help?
<ali1234> gimp layer groups are broken to the point of being useless
<ali1234> since they merge down their contents and then blend then with one operation
<dogmatic69> GTX 550 Ti is not plug and play :/
<redtape|renegade> Double Click-ing makes 13.10 a Double-trouble O/S for Unity dash in Ubuntu.. http://news.softpedia.com/news/Ubuntu-13-10-Wants-Users-to-Double-Click-Everything-in-Unity-s-Dash-361544.shtml
<redtape|renegade> leaves
<AlanBell> hmm, uninformed reporting on the development version
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Well that's never happened before
<AlanBell> hey look, today this happened! Is this a bug, is it a new feature? We have no idea, lets hit the publish button.
<MartijnVdS> alt+f2 is broken again too
<MartijnVdS> if you press Enter too quickly after typing a command, a random other command will run
<MartijnVdS> (well it seems random to me anyway)
<czajkowski> best client to use for gmail talk
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: the Chrome extension
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: otherwise you won't be able to use the group chat bits
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/hangouts/nckgahadagoaajjgafhacjanaoiihapd?utm_source=chrome-ntp-icon
<mgdm> the chrome extension is catastrophically annoying
<mgdm> (at least on OSX)
<popey> eats cpu
<popey> its common in hangouts to share one window, xsensors, showing 98 degrees
<mgdm> what do you call the thing that used to be in Crunchbang that shows various info on the desktop background?
<mgdm> Conky, that's it
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: an app that monitors all kinds of stats about your machine and puts it in a window
<MartijnVdS> and/or your background
<MartijnVdS> ah wait
<MartijnVdS> you already know that
<mgdm> Yeah, I know what it is, I was asking its name
 * MartijnVdS fails reading
<mgdm> hehe
 * MartijnVdS will be going to the Spa GP \o/
<MartijnVdS> f1
<mgdm> nice
<bigcalm> I used to use gkrellm for sensors and other graphs
<czajkowski> bah yeah I need it for group chats
<popey> surely you already had it installed?
<directhex> MartijnVdS, considering how close i live to silverstone, and most of the uk motorsport headquarters, i should care more about f1
<czajkowski> boo This application is not supported on this computer. Installation has been disabled.
<czajkowski> brb
 * brobostigon is equally in proximity, but cares for c++ and controller programming,
<brobostigon> interesting thing about north oxfordshire.
<knightwise> evening all
<knightwise> does anybody know their way around the grub rescue menu ?
<knightwise> I moved some partitions around and now my Ubuntu won't boot any more :(
<SuperEngineer> erm - reinstall grub from live cd [or use boot-rescue live]?
<SuperEngineer> knightwise ^
<knightwise> do I need the 12.04 live cd for that ?
<SuperEngineer> any live cd with relevant version of grub
<knightwise> looking for one now, holdon
 * SuperEngineer once resorted to using a copy of boot-rescue live cd... worked a treat]
<SuperEngineer> but any relevant live cd with relevant grub
<knightwise> ok , got a linux mint live cd here
<knightwise> booting from it now
<SuperEngineer> should do fine
<knightwise> Thing is , i'm on a mac (dual booting osx and Ubuntu) and I resized (and moved around some partitions .
<knightwise> and now my ubuntu partition no longer boots
<SuperEngineer> ooooo
<knightwise> ok , i've booted up into the mint live cd
<SuperEngineer> never done this on a Mac
<knightwise> shouldn't make a difference , it boots with REFIT first and then chainloads to grub
<knightwise> and its jst the grub part thats broken.
<SuperEngineer> ok, but maybe wait for an answer from a mac user?
<knightwise> i've booted up into Linux Mint (live cd) .. now what do I do to reinstall grab
<knightwise> SuperEngineer: nono, not and issue , the issue at hand is a pure linux issue
<SuperEngineer> if you say so..
<SuperEngineer> in which case...
<SuperEngineer> open a terminal
<SuperEngineer> ....
<knightwise> terminal open
<SuperEngineer> sudo grub-install /dev/sda  ... but is that ok on a mac?
<knightwise> yep , thats ok
<SuperEngineer> cool!
<knightwise> i'll open up gparted first to see on what partion linux is installed
<SuperEngineer> wise
<knightwise> its on sda3
<SuperEngineer> so /dev/sda it is
<knightwise> failed to get canonical path of /cow
<SuperEngineer> surely  you don't install grub to a partition?
<knightwise> path /boot/grub is not readable by grub on boot installation is impossible
<knightwise> I install grub on the / partition mostly
<SuperEngineer> ermmm
<knightwise> no ?
<SuperEngineer> need advice from others really, personally I wouldn't install it to partition
<SuperEngineer> unless mac needs things that way?
<knightwise> the odd thing is , this used to work fine untill i did a resize with some partitions
<SuperEngineer> anyone watching this and able to confirm/deny?
<SuperEngineer> did the resize appear to go ok
<knightwise> yep ,
<SuperEngineer> in which case...
<SuperEngineer> anyone watching this and able to confirm/deny install to disk v. install to partition
<knightwise> wel .. /sda3 is a disk right ? or a partition
<directhex> for dual booting on a mac, you should install grub to a partition header
<SuperEngineer> partition
<directhex> i.e. to sdaX, not sda
<knightwise> I installed it to sda3
<SuperEngineer> directhex: thanks
<knightwise> I just used gparted to take a look at the partition and i remember it did give me an error that things could go pearshaped if you move the root partition
<knightwise> it also says there is a way to fix it , it just doesnt elaborate
<ali1234> what's a program that works exactly like make, but is more powerful?
<ali1234> specifically i need regular expression rule matching
<mgdm> ali1234: I like 'waf', in Python
<mgdm> as it's Python you can do what you want with regexes, i guess
<Goshawk> Hi guys, my CD drive wont open. Just comes up with 'Inappropriate ioctl for device'. Any ideas?
<Darael> Goshawk: Hast tried it with the button that's presumably on it, or art using right-click/eject from the launcher? (Just trying to find out whether it's a pure software issue here)
<Goshawk> Darael: Have tried both ways
<Darael> Hmm.  That *is* odd.
<mgdm> Oooh, hello
<mgdm> never had the MBA fan fire up before, until I started compiling GTK+
<Darael> Oh, GTK+...
<bigcalm> I appear to have lost the audio notification icon
<bigcalm> How irritating
<diplo> Recommendations of where to get SSL certs from ?
<diplo> Cheap* :)
<diplo> Personal site
<MartijnVdS> startssl
<MartijnVdS> they have a free tier
<MartijnVdS> cheap enough :)
<MartijnVdS> ?
<diplo> https://www.startssl.com/ ?
<diplo> Not worried about free, just don't want to spend Â£100 a year
<MartijnVdS> that's the one
<bigcalm> What's wrong with self-signed? ;)
<diplo> Don't want friends / family to have to accept the old not verified
<bigcalm> Get them to import the cert into their web browsers
<MartijnVdS> hence startssl :)
<bigcalm> Bah, too easy :P
<MartijnVdS> A few registrars also give 1 year free SSL cert with a domain
 * MartijnVdS uses gandi.net for all
<diplo> I've just moved a domain to them, hadn't checked their site yet
<diplo> Hmm, free for the first year when i transfer to gandi, can't remember them offering that when moving my other domain
<diplo> Can I move certs from servers to servers easily enough? Never used certs properly
<MartijnVdS> yeah, server to server is fine, as long as the hostname is the same
<diplo> So basically I want to test on a local server and then move to a VPS when I get some more cash
<diplo> yeah will be set up the same
<diplo> Cool ta
<MartijnVdS> np :)
#ubuntu-uk 2013-06-18
<advancedgarde> I just had a look at the stats for this channel, they're really cool!
<advancedgarde> I've never seen anything like that on a IRC before.
<Azelphur> haha, afaik they are generated by a tool called pisg, it's open source and you can run it on any channel.
<popey> Good morning
<SuperMatt> morning
<dwatkins> yeah, I run pisg on another channel, all you need is constant logs
<diplo> Morning all
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> Yes!
<bigcalm> Well, I'm glad to be so right for a change
<mungbean> anyone know how to change keybindings in non-unity distros?
<popey> http://tumbleweed.popey.com/
<bigcalm> It amuses me that the image is flipped
<mungbean> need to try to remap the super+L command
<bigcalm> To lock the system?
<bigcalm> Aka windows
<mungbean> yesh
<mungbean> gnome-screensaver is buggy so i had to replace it with sxcreensaver
<mungbean> but now super+L no longer works
<bigcalm> I think I did it when I used to use xubuntu (xfce)
<bigcalm> Now idea how though :)
<neuro> send it back and get a refund
 * popey ponders breakfast
 * neuro has already pondered
<popey> poached eggs on a toasted bagel I think
 * popey wanders off
<neuro> 2x rolls with square+links sausage
<neuro> + le tea
 * bigcalm looks at his waist line and hears his tummy grumble
<neuro> heh
<SuperMatt> Rice Krispies is what I had
<dwatkins> I had a cup of tea.
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Autistic Pride Day! :-D
<mungbean> anyone running gnome3?
<neuro> happy autistic what now?
<mungbean> ubuntu one "a file is no longer published" when trying to publish a screnshot :S
 * popey points mungbean at JamesTait 
<popey> (for u1, not g3)
<JamesTait> Where do you see that message, mungbean?
<mungbean> in the indicator
 * neuro has googled (or more accurately has duckducked) and is wondering why 18th June ...
<mungbean> usually says "file puslibhsed at url"
<popey> I didnt think this whole "poached egg on a dough product with a hole in the middle" thing through
<mungbean> i can try killing some daemons
<neuro> puslibhsed ... has someone gotten their translations for English (UK) in a twist? :>
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<mungbean> re my keyboard issue,wonder if other peope are missing the optino to add custom shortcuts: http://i.imgur.com/nucW7Km.png
<neuro> WHAT'S GOOD ABOUT IT
<popey> poached eggs are good about it
<neuro> my cup of tea is depleted, no more good can come from this day
<popey> i have double-size mugs here for daytime cofee
<popey> thinking they should make triple size mugs
<neuro> they're called "jugs"
<brobostigon> or buckets.
<neuro> or barrels
<JamesTait> popey, I think I'm with you on that.
<JamesTait> mungbean, I don't really know about the indicator, but I imagine it just uses our REST API.  You're best off asking in #ubuntuone when the desktop guys arrive in a couple of hours.
<mungbean> ok, not a common error then i guess, i'll try later ta
<mungbean> is the free limit 4 or 5 gb?
<JamesTait> 5GB
<mungbean> i was using exactly 4.0gb so was suspicious
<mungbean> publishing does work via teh website
<neuro> i didn't even notice that google had gone a bit generous and effectively bumped up storage limits for gmail by unifying gmail+drive storage
<neuro> which was nice, as my gafyd mailbox was pushing up against its 10 gig limit; it's now 15 \o/
<JamesTait> mungbean, what about via the cli?
 * JamesTait is looking at the indicator-sync source now.
<JamesTait> "It's a UNIX system - I know this!"
<mungbean> i should state that i'm using elementary with plugin for ubuntuone
<mungbean> cli does the same problem
<mungbean> u1sdtool --publish-file Ubuntu\ One/Screenshot\ from\ 2012-12-17\ 13\:54\:57.png
<mungbean> indicator pops up
<mungbean> command hasn't returned yet
<Myrtti> porridge â¥
<JamesTait> mungbean, as a test, do you have a file without spaces in the filename that you can try?
 * popey stabs that filename format for screenshots
<popey> it's _mental_
<popey> spaces _and_ colons
<SuperMatt> I've always thought it was a bit odd
<neuro> it's like someone thought you'd be using a more friendly interface to access the files!
<SuperMatt> fix bug, push upstream?
<JamesTait> Mind you, unpublishing a file via the cli gives me "A share link is no longer available" from the indicator, which is different from what mungbean reported. I might not be the best tester, given that I almost certainly have the nightly PPA.
<JamesTait> Command still hasn't returned, either.
<neuro> and people ask me why i don't use u1 ... ;)
<neuro> well, they don't, actually
<neuro> bah, i keep forgetting Fleetwood Mac's "Rumours" is only 45 mins long
<neuro> need a choon suggestion
<mungbean> offline gmail = win
<SuperMatt> Iron Maiden: Brave New World
<neuro> too late, found some freezepop
<SuperMatt> freezepop?
<neuro> freezepop
<SuperMatt> is that a band? genre?
<neuro> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=freezepop
<SuperMatt> http://www.socwall.com/desktop-wallpaper/342/freezepop-by-valerie/ so not this then?
<neuro> actually yes
<neuro> that's from their 2004 album
<neuro> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fancy_Ultra%E2%80%A2Fresh
<SuperMatt> oh
<mungbean> JamesTait: just saw the message
<mungbean> hold on
<JamesTait> I've got as far as "it calls the change_public_access method on the public_files DBus interface" and now I'm not sure.
<mungbean> so it's not just me breaking things?
<mungbean> i'm happy to wait
<mungbean> noticed it the other day
<mungbean> haven't rebooted since though
<neuro> you're more patient than i'd be ;)
<mungbean> its a free account so meh
<mungbean> or are we all supposed to act autistic on APD?
<neuro> oooooooh *handbag* :)
<neuro> http://handbag.popey.com/
 * mungbean ducks
<neuro> yay, i finally got to use that
<SuperMatt> does popey have a subdomain for everything?
<neuro> if he doesn't, he should have
<mungbean> maybe we should get lubotu3 to do ascii art of tumbleweed
<neuro> "Oops! Google Chrome could not find felgerkarb.popey.com" ... seems not
<JamesTait> mungbean, well, I don't really know. :)  I can publish a file from the cli here, even with spaces in the filename.
<JamesTait> But "Works For Me" isn't a solution.
<JamesTait> mungbean, your patience and assistance in diagnosing the problem is appreciated. :)
<neuro> your reward is FEELING AWESOME
 * mungbean sings greensleeves
<mungbean> http://askubuntu.com/questions/309448/publish-a-file-fails-cannot-access-web-link-a-file-is-no-longer-published
<neuro> well at least you know it's not just you
<mungbean> interestingly its new
<mungbean> probably since my last update
<popey> hehe, i haven't shared anything for a while.. just picked a random pic and shared it http://ubuntuone.com/2WZJ0aZMVc3Gh8il3ZEB3H
<popey> *rando
<neuro> it's loading sideways
<neuro> what black magic is this?
<popey> its rotated
<popey> so it's loading normally, but rendered sideways due to exif data I suspect
<JamesTait> Oh my! popey, that's disgusting!
<mungbean> https://twitter.com/ghalfacree/status/344763611991908353
<popey> it is? oh
<JamesTait> :-P
 * JamesTait chuckles as the rest of the channel suddenly clicks the link.
<popey> it belongs to sam
<popey> i think it's for holding a pair of glasses
<neuro> JamesTait: and you know this, how?
 * neuro sniffs for scents of NSA or GCHQ
<JamesTait> neuro, I have CCTV installed in all your houses?
<neuro> aaaaaaaaaah
 * neuro runs for the underwear drawer
<neuro> HAHAHA I'm kidding
<neuro> because when would I run anywhere, amirite?
<JamesTait> I know. :-P
<neuro> aaaaaaah!
<neuro> earlier joking aside, i'd actually use ubuntu one more, but i find the mac client too kludgy, and the headless mode is mad
<JamesTait> neuro, if you could expand upon the deficiencies of the Mac client in the way of bug reports, our client team would like to hear about it.
<neuro> it's nothing that demands a bug per se
<JamesTait> Or even via the feedback form.
<neuro> it's just not ... Mac enough
<neuro> which i know is a tad unfair
<JamesTait> https://one.ubuntu.com/help/contact/
<neuro> the mac clients for dropbox and gdrive are much more integrated, and thus i prefer those
<neuro> and there i shall leave it :)
<JamesTait> I'm not a mac user at all, you see, so I'm not much use in that department.
<neuro> sure, don't worry about it
<neuro> i'm a bit of an oddity in here, i don't run ubuntu desktop at all
<neuro> i'm mainly mac here with a couple of sadly necessary windows machines
<brobostigon> any ideas, of a phone, that preferably has a hw keyboard, android, and is around Â£100/Â£150 mark. ?
<mungbean> hw keyboard can't be many to choose from
<brobostigon> exactly. thats why i am asking advice.
<brobostigon> but it isnt as crucial, there are some good sw keyboards around now.
<popey> amusingly if I go to orange website and look at the filters "hardware keyboard" isn't even an option
<popey> in fact the only ones i can see are blackberry or cheap dumbphones like the Nokia Asha 300, and they only have numeric keyboards
<brobostigon> interesting,
<popey> I'd love a modern day Nokia N950
<popey> still know a fair few people who have them
<neuro> brobostigon: when you say "android" ...
<brobostigon> neuro: android 4.2 and above or flashable.
<popey> http://www.androidauthority.com/best-keyboard-qwerty-android-phones-2012-55315/
<neuro> good luck with that
<brobostigon> 4.1*
<brobostigon> thank you popey
<popey> that was the result of "android phone hardware keyboard" into google
<neuro> actually, i take it back
<neuro> http://www.expansys.com/samsung-galaxy-chat-b5330-uk-black-241632/
<neuro> http://theunlockr.com/2012/12/29/how-to-root-the-samsung-galaxy-chat-b5330/
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-Galaxy-Andoid-Simfree-Mobile/dp/B009URTKWI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1371548259&sr=8-1&keywords=B5330
<popey> better pic
<popey> i used to be adamant that hardware keyboards were the way forward
<popey> then bought an htc hero and haven't had a hardware kb device since
<neuro> brobostigon: and apparently samsung is pushing kosher 4.1.2 updates for the chat
<neuro> popey: i thought the same til i used an iphone
<popey> loads of phones linked from that amazon page
<brobostigon> neuro: interesting.
<neuro> brobostigon: yeah, it looks like a not bad phone if you desperately want the hw keyb and don't care too much about performance
<mungbean> i used to type really fast on my psion revo
<neuro> it's only got an 850Mhz apu
<popey> loving this device btw http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00BQ5KHJW
<neuro> but pricewise it's in line with what you're after
<popey> yeah, i used to type one handed on my Nokia N82, in my pocket â»
<brobostigon> neuro: as i said, it would be nice, but not crucial, as there are some good sw kayboards around now.
<neuro> popey: i have two of these little guys: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B003F5WEMO
<popey> twee
<neuro> fits nicely into one of my car phone holder thingies
<popey> i found I could put the anker in one back pocket, phone in the other back pocket with usb cable between to charge â»
<popey> â NERD
<neuro> for drives down to engerland, i swap it out when i get to norton canes on the m6 toll
<neuro> lol
<neuro> then wonder why your cheeks are getting toasty
<neuro> incidentally, bought these in the same amazon order
<neuro> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B005IHLHCA
<neuro> probably the best speakers of that size i've ever bought
<bigcalm> Does anybody else here get a crackle when skype plays system sounds?
<popey> cheapo
<neuro> and i paid 32 quid for them; at 20 quid they're a bloomin' steal
<popey> i turn of system sounds in skype
<bigcalm> popey: so you don't like to hear it ringing?
<neuro> skype's sounds are aaaaaaanoooooooyyyiiiiinngg
<popey> i dont like hearing anything from skype
<popey> blip-bloop
<popey> neuro: what batteries does that take?
<neuro> bloop-blip-bluup
<neuro> popey: the speakers?
<popey> oh, charges over usb?
<popey> neato
<neuro> yeah
<neuro> it has an on-off switch
<neuro> which is cutely reversed
<neuro> it pops *out* for on, and pushes in for off
<popey> is it a usb audio device too?
<popey> or just power over usb?
<neuro> no
<neuro> power over usb, audio over 3.5mm
<popey> ta
<neuro> only downside is the cable lengths are a touch short
<neuro> i can't clip the speakers to my mbp screen
<neuro> but then i'm going outside the scope of the product, i guess
<neuro> so i just put them on top of the keyb when watching stuff
<neuro> comes with a cute little bag to put them in when not using them
<neuro> and the cables have pathed ducts in the speaker casing to tuck them away when not being used
<bigcalm> Why is Amazon telling me that they have 20% off nappies?
<mungbean> handy to know
<neuro> because they're pimping their Amazon Family thing
<neuro> i'm getting it too
<mungbean> you can subscribe to nappy deliveries
<bigcalm> Ewww
<neuro> it's basically Prime with 20% off nappies
 * popey apt-get upgrades his phone
<popey> \o/ checkers
<neuro> lol
<neuro> as much as i'm currently unimpressed with ubuntu phone, and as much as i think it's pointless ssh'ing into a phone ... that's still pretty cool :)
 * DJones hopes that hardware & software for Ubuntu phones will be publicly available by the time he comes to replace his phone next year
<mungbean> neuro: phones are computing devices
<neuro> i know, i know
<popey> DJones: target is april next year
<mungbean> calling things phones is a bit silly nowadays
<mungbean> might as well call it a camera
<popey> 13.10 should see software release you could put on phone and "use"
<popey> what other devices have a GSM stack in them?
<neuro> as far as i'm concerned, if it has a cellular modem, a speaker+mic and software to make calls on it, and is in a "phone"-like form factor, it's a phone
<DJones> popey: That'll be good, not due to upgrade until autumn anyway, should be plenty of time for bugs/issues in 'real world use' to be sorted outr
<popey> other devices have cameras in them (tablet, camera) but only "phones" have a gsm stack
<popey> +1
<popey> mungbean is taking international autism day too seriously ã
<neuro> some cameras have gsm stacks
<popey> true â»
<popey> "but my TV has a PVR so it's not a Tv anymore" etc
<neuro> and the samsung galaxy camera is basically an inverted galaxy S2
<neuro> instead of being a phone with a touchscreen that happens to have a camera
<neuro> it's a camera with a touchscreen that happens to have a phone
<popey> who was the US leader who put a youtube video out to ask what we call them instead of phones?
<neuro> or at least an android-compatible APU with cellular radios
<popey> it was someone recently
<neuro> oh it was thingy
<DJones> popey: If you find that Canonical look for people to beta test the hardware/software and have demo phones to give out, let me now, I'll put my name on the list of volunteers :)
<neuro> republican bloke
<popey> heh DJones after me ã
<neuro> that's the bunny ... Newt Gingrich
<DJones> Definatly after you
<neuro> http://youtu.be/jmKVRVX4q-k
<neuro> "We're Really Puzzled"
<neuro> no Newt, you are :)
<neuro> well, you and mungbean
<popey> http://what-if.xkcd.com/50/ is delightful
<dogmatic69> hi all. having problems with two GTX550 Ti's. I got 13.04 running with one, but if I connect the other it completely died (had to reinstall ubuntu :/)
<neuro> ohhhh it's tuesday
 * neuro hugs popey
 * popey hugs AlanBell 
<bigcalm> It's great how authorising Facebook as an Online Account doesn't work :)
<davmor2> Morning all
<neuro> why aye
<neuro> popey: yes, delightful
<neuro> the alt/title tags are, as always, genius
<neuro> "The mercury one was going to be the least deadly, wasn't it"
<neuro> this one is currently my favourite: http://what-if.xkcd.com/35/
<neuro> "One more notch."
<popey> i need to show these to Sophie
<neuro> oohhh, i have never read the alt tags on that one
<popey> i might print one out and put it in her school bag and see if she finds it
<neuro> "this one has expressed concern that rogue states may gain access to hair dryer dial labelling technology"
<DJones> http://what-if.xkcd.com/40/ Is a bit dodgy given what happened in Boston
<neuro> that's a bit like saying the episode of The X-Files-spinoff The Lone Gunman where they had to avert a plane crashing into the World Trade Center was a bit dodgy given what happened on 9/11
<bigcalm> TerminalIDE seems to be a bit of an overkill for me using it just as an SSH client. Any recommendations for a standalone SSH client on android?
<neuro> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.connectbot
<davmor2> bigcalm: you can get the irssi client for your phone/tablet  it does ssh + irssi connection :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: that's a connectbot product too
<bigcalm> davmor2: x y
<bigcalm> davmor2: I want an ssh client, not an irc client
<bigcalm> neuro: ta
<davmor2> bigcalm: it is the connectbot ssh client + mods for irssi to make that useable
<bigcalm> davmor2: have you considered that I might want to use SSH for something other than IRC?
<davmor2> bigcalm: it is the ssh client plus things like swipe left and right to change channel etc, I found I didn't need both when the one did everything I needed
<davmor2> bigcalm: it is the same ssh client + mods
<popey> juice is also a good irc client
<popey> which does mosh
 * popey now uses mosh instead of ssh directly
 * bigcalm stamps his foot - I don't want to do IRC over my phone
<davmor2> bigcalm: if it's there you'll use it though :P
 * brobostigon also uses mosh, perticulerly useful on my sometimes unstable phone connection.
<mgdm> I think popey meant 'ssh' when he said 'irc', perhaps?
<popey> oops, yes
<popey> i dont mean irc at all â»  just ssh
<mungbean> weatherman promised 25 degrees today
<mungbean> liar
<BigRedS> I think, technically, he only *forecast* that
<mungbean> whos side are you on?
<mungbean> http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2343790/Call-centres-BBC-Three-programme-hit-225-000-fine-nuisance-PPI-calls.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
<BigRedS> well, I'm in an air conditioned room all day, this is an argument I'm not having :)
<bigcalm> My goodness, that was an odd game
<mungbean> incredipede bigcalm ?
<popey> heh
<mungbean> on level2 , am i supposed to be able to use the mouse to stretch legs etc?
<mungbean> seem to be stuck using a and D keys only
<mungbean> muller do a fruit corner type thing that is in fact a big after eight mint.
<popey> i managed to get through about 6 levels
<mungbean> could you make new legs etc?
<popey> no
<mungbean> bug?
<popey> didnt try
<popey> didnt know you could
<mungbean> thats the point
<popey> i just got through the levels with what I had and a/d
<mungbean> that would be lame
<popey> another game I really like is pax-britannica
<popey> !info pax-britannica
<lubotu3> pax-britannica (source: pax-britannica): one-button multi-player real-time strategy game. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.0.0-2 (quantal), package size 149 kB, installed size 383 kB
<mungbean> run incredipede and click the cogs and click help
<christel> popey: we have a press screening for our latest movie netx week, the ubuntu podcast should go see it and interview ian livingstone and our main producer
<christel> it is clearly ubuntu related seeing how i am an ubuntu user
 * christel nods
<christel> (i saw your "we need people to interview" thing) :)
<christel> (and it would be a bit cool of you to have ian livingstone on air because i am sure you're all old enough to have enjoyed his fighting fantasy books in your youth... and he is a bit of a geek and totally cute)
<popey> hah
<popey> never heard of him â»
<christel> he was the founder of games workshop...
<mungbean> Â£Â£
<popey> heard of that â»
<mungbean> popey: surely you read fighting fantasy?
<christel> and is the presiident of uh eidos interactive
<popey> nope
<mungbean> he is lara croft's dad
<christel> he holds an OBE and a CBE for "services to the computer gaming industry" ;)
<christel> he's a lovely man :)
<christel> i enjoy working with him, it is tres fun :)
<aquarius> ha! Ian Livingstone. He was at the first LugRadio Live :)
<aquarius> no he wasn't.
<aquarius> Ian Bell was. From Elite :)
<popey> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1937035674/leadwerks-build-linux-games-on-linux
<popey> pondering backing that
<aquarius> I saw that
<aquarius> but I basically have no interest in making 3d games. Or the skill to do so...
<popey> ditto â»
<popey> i like t-shirts though
<popey> http://www.cocos2d-x.org/ also looks interesting
<mungbean> browsers seem to create so much i/o . i wonder what they are doing
<davmor2> mungbean: do you have an add blocker in place?
<mungbean> yes
<davmor2> mungbean: I'm wondering if that is partially responsible i/o here and memory and cpu is really low, my email client is the thing using the most
<mungbean> sounds strange
<davmor2> mungbean: I have 4 chromium windows open with a minimum of 5 active tabs in each,  thunderbird is using 3 times the memory and twice the cpu
<mungbean> maybe webistes are just a lot richer than before
<mungbean> facebook regularly kills my pc
<davmor2> mungbean: try disabling the add block and see if it lowers the high utilization for you
<mungbean> think i'll need to close browser first to unload stuffs
<mungbean> i have 40 tabs open atm
<davmor2> mungbean: that might be why then :)
<popey> i seriously doubt disabling adblock will improve things
<mungbean> (although on my laptop at homei can have 2 tabs and still disk wakes up)
<popey> more likely to make things worse
<mungbean> i just farted audibly in the office. embarassing
<popey> i have 80 tabs open
<mungbean> mem usage?
<mungbean> iotop doesn't show much going on
<popey> KiB Mem:   8057840 total,  6937944 used,  1119896 free,    77780 buffers
<popey> KiB Swap:  8267772 total,  2795716 used,  5472056 free,   792316 cached
<mungbean> top -b | grep firefox ?
<popey> i dont use firefox, chromium â»
<mungbean> i think its cos the PC is now on the desk, i can hear disk inkling
<mungbean> i've tried them all
<mungbean> jbd2/sda6-8
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5777091/
<mungbean> it all adds up
<mungbean> i only have 4gb ram
<mungbean> should i always choose a windows 64-bit version when loading windows 7 onto a well specced laptop?
<mungbean> why doesn't sed -i 's;GtkScrollbar::slider-width                      = 6;GtkScrollbar::slider-width                      = 10;' gtkrc
<mungbean> work?
<popey> never used s; before, only s/
<mungbean> i tried that too
<mungbean> sed -i 's/GtkScrollbar::slider-width                      = 6/GtkScrollbar::slider-width                      = 10/g' ./gtkrc
<mungbean> must be the spaces
<mungbean> you can shorten but i've forgotten anything i ever knew
<aquarius> popey, it's not s; specifically. You can use any character you like after the s and it becomes the delimiter. So sXpopeyXsilX works. It's dead useful if you're replacing something with / in, such as a path. sX/home/aquarius/X/home/popey/Xg
<popey> i never knew that
<popey> thanks
<aquarius> I guessed not, hence telling you. It's one of those little things which is incredibly useful about once every six months ;)
<popey> heh, yeah
<mgdm> that works in various scripting languages too - dead handy
<mgdm> (once every six months, as you say)
<mungbean>  sed -i 's/slider-width.*6/GtkScrollbar  ::slider-width                      = 10/g' ./gtkrc
<mungbean> works
<mungbean> i think there's more elegant way though
<mungbean> who's near hastings? http://www.hastingsobserver.co.uk/news/local-news/legendary-bomber-set-to-make-a-noise-1-5185870
<mgdm> I'm guessing that's XH558?
<mungbean> yes
<mgdm> \o/
<mungbean> https://twitter.com/XH558
<mgdm> Bruce Dickinson is setting up an aircraft maintenance company?!
<mgdm> http://loudwire.com/iron-maiden-bruce-dickinson-8-million-investments-aircraft-maintenance-company/?trackback=twitter_top
<mungbean> This Saturday 22nd June at Manston in Kent -
<mungbean> i like how they say "manston, then weston super mare"
<BigRedS> Ooh, what's that in aid of?
<mungbean> south east air show
<mungbean> http://www.heritage-events.co.uk/South%20East%20Airshow%202013
 * mgdm hopes to see it north of the border some time
<mungbean> i'd say the BBMF are more popular
<mungbean> seeing the lanc gives you shivers
<mgdm> I've stood under the Lanc at its hangar, but never seen it fly
<BigRedS> I was thinking about that at duxford
<BigRedS> it's this tool built to bomb the women and children of Germany
<mungbean> not really
<mungbean> thats not the chief intention
<BigRedS> Well, no, but it is what most people go on to think of when they picture WW2 bombing raids
<BigRedS> to be fair to the bbmf, I don't think their lancaster did any combat at all
<JamesTait> mungbean, did you have any joy with your file publishing problem?
<mungbean> no i forgot to ask in 'buntu-one
<mungbean> this one certainly saw action http://www.flickr.com/photos/oimon/8522213006/
<mungbean> 2nd highest number of operations of the RAF Heavy Bombers during WWII
<BigRedS> Is that the one at RAF Hendon?
<mungbean> yes
<mungbean> join #ubuntu-one
<JamesTait> mungbean, #ubuntuone (no hyphen)
<mungbean> seemed to put me in the same place \/o
<BigRedS> and /join, not join :)
<JamesTait> Ah, you're already there. :)
<mungbean> my fathers inheritance to be split among my siblings is stored in a coop bank account. scary :S
<mungbean> ah, finally its made it into my current account
<mungbean> don't think coop was really at risk but you never know
<popey> \o/ http://www.ubuntu.com/phone/carrier-advisory-group
<Gary> I'd love to run ubuntuphone on my mako
<diplo> mungbean: Just saw your message at 16:20, your old nick oimon ?
<AlanBell> ooh that is a big announcement
<AlanBell> a bit shy of a commitment to launch it, but some good names there
<popey> slowly slowly
<MartijnVdS> .uk?
<MartijnVdS> http://lego.cuusoo.com/ideas/view/3431
<AlanBell> everything everywhere is a UK carrier
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I thought you meant this announcement: http://domainnamewire.com/2013/06/18/nominet-reconsiders-second-level-uk-domains-and-it-may-be-good-for-domainers/
<AlanBell> ah, nope
<AlanBell> the carrier advisory group
<MartijnVdS> I see
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: though there ARE some good names to buy in .uk :)
<NET||abuse> hummm, ssh is faling, i think it's trying to offer too many public keys negotiating the connection
<NET||abuse> how do i stop ssh offering all my possible public keys during auth?
<daftykins> i think i met my match on laptop disassembly tasks
<daftykins> broken screen in a tiny Samsung 5 series AMD based laptop
<daftykins> only way to take it out, pull off the foil-like sheet of metal on the front - which now looks like this: ~~~~~~~
<daftykins> in hindsight, perhaps something like a hot air gun to soften the glue would've been best XD
<popey> NET||abuse: yeah, i had that recently too
<popey> NET||abuse: http://superuser.com/questions/187779/too-many-authentication-failures-for-username
<daftykins> do you always use keys over passwords for systems you own?
<mgdm> NET||abuse: could you tell it which key to use in a Host entry in ~/.ssh/config ?
<daftykins> the above link covers exactly that
<popey> daftykins: mostly, yes
<popey> especially publicly accessible machines
<daftykins> i feel like that'd be a pain because if i'd just setup a new system or wiped an old, if i were away from home and needed to get in i'd be knackered
<popey> there's ways around that
<popey> like having one machine which allows ssh with a strong password and from there you can hop to others, or having a key on your phone or something
<daftykins> true
<daftykins> i feel as though a non-standard port and a good user+pass is fairly decent
<popey> yeah, works for me
<dwatkins> also, denyhosts will ban an IP address if it has too many login failures
<daftykins> i use err
<daftykins> fail2ban for the same
<dwatkins> I also use a non-standard port, which has the advantate I don't need to jump through hoops to get to my ssh server. Suffice to say that my work network thinks I'm making a connection to a different application.
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> the auth.log is quite amusing when you use standard port 22 and leave a box internet facing
<daftykins> just sort of, lower case first names get tried
<davmor2> popey: humble android bundle did you get it yet?
<davmor2> bigcalm: ^
<popey> I didn't, but I do now. Thanks â»
<ali1234> another one already?
<davmor2> popey: can you see if the USC links work please :)
<davmor2> ali1234: yeap android one
<DJones> popey: Did I see you mention that polly was no longer being updated
<popey> organ trail, yes
<popey> DJones: not i
<ali1234> time to dig up some bitcoins then i guess
<bigcalm> davmor2: save me from loading the screen with irssi in. What did I miss?
<popey> 19:12:57 < davmor2> popey: humble android bundle did you get it yet?
<popey> that
<DJones> popey: ok
<bigcalm> Ah
<popey> well, specifically 19:13:46 < davmor2> bigcalm: ^
<popey> that
<davmor2> bigcalm: humble android bundle
<bigcalm> Yes, I got emailed that line
<davmor2> popey: comedy gold
<bigcalm> davmor2: I haven't been emailed about it yet if there is a new one
<brobostigon> has anyone around tried Blackberry OS 10 yet, i wonder whats its like, being QNX basis.
<ali1234> hey do you think they email the people who pay more first so that beating the average is harder? that's what i would do lol
<davmor2> bigcalm: and you see how useful irssi on your phone would be now :D
 * davmor2 awaits the sound of bigcalm 's head exploding
<bigcalm> Frozen synapse looks like Die Hard on the PlayStation from the 90s
<bigcalm> None of the games appeal to be other than broken sword
<ali1234> it's nothing like that
<ali1234> it's like laser squad nemesis or robosport
<ali1234> if it is the game i think it is
<bigcalm> I did dsu 'looks'
<bigcalm> dsu = say
<popey> davmor2: stealth bastard deluxe is installing too..
<bigcalm> Left hand needs to shift one to the left for a change
<ali1234> i'm pretty sure die hard on playstation wasn't abstract wireframe graphics in primary colours...
<popey> USC has asked for my password 3 times now
<davmor2> popey: yeah it's polykit I think ends on the completed install but I could be wrong
<bigcalm> I have no idea what it reminds me of then
<popey> davmor2: fractal too
<davmor2> popey: ta
<popey> np
 * popey claims humble bundle on expenses
 * bigcalm ponders buying it just to have something he might play with in the future
<bigcalm> Â¬.Â¬
<popey> thats what i do mostly
<popey> mostly
<ali1234> i still haven't finishes adding all the previous bundles on steam
<popey> i tend to do them piecemeal
<popey> doesn't take long but the UI in steam is horrid for doing it
<ali1234> does it cost HiB extra if i add them btw?
<popey> have to keep pressing enter, and then wait
<popey> pass
<ali1234> i don't know why i think you'd know that
<popey> he
<ali1234> right i'm off to not play any of these games
<bigcalm> Bah, broken sword is broken
<diddledan_> evening
<popey> pip pip
<diddledan_> games? am I missing a humble bundle?
<bigcalm> The email will be sent out soon enough
<popey> about 20 mins after you  buy it usually
<diddledan_> ok, euromillions, make me a meeleonaire
<popey> 3 mins for me
<diddledan_> lol @ stealth bastard
<diddledan_> not only that, but it's deluxe
<diddledan_> a deluxe bastard of stealth
<daftykins> i thought it was already freeware/shareware that one
<ali1234> nah it's on steam
<ali1234> i hope they get mcpixel in one of the bundles soon
<bigcalm> 9 mins after buying the games the email comes in. Nice work
<davmor2> bigcalm: :D
 * bigcalm goes back to work
<davmor2> bigcalm: work you should be finished now man :D
<bigcalm> davmor2: nothing better to do
<davmor2> bigcalm: you just bought games
<diddledan_> they've got a pay with bitcoin thingy on there now
<bigcalm> davmor2: doesn't mean I want to play them
<davmor2> sbd is good fun
<bigcalm> davmor2: and broken sword isn't installing on steam
<ali1234> maybe the steam version isn't on linux?
<ali1234> about half of them aren't
<bigcalm> In time I guess it will be
<bigcalm> Out of the list of steam keys I copy/pasted, only 2 games didn't install
<ali1234> i have 50 games on steam that i got from HiB and 18 of them have linux ports
<popey> fractal is fun
<neuro> sadly mostly not linux-compatible, but GOG are running a summer sale until 9th July: http://www.gog.com/NoDRMSummer
<ali1234> but do they accept bitcoins?
<neuro> well, no
<neuro> but some of the games can be coerced into running on linux: http://www.gog.com/mix/linux_native_source_ports
<neuro> i.e. scumm-based games
<ali1234> wow syndicate
<ali1234> that game really hasn't aged well
<diddledan_> they've (gog) pretty much got their entire catalogue on offer
<ali1234> interesting populous is older and has aged very well
<neuro> I HAS HB EMAIL
<diddledan_> that's a phrase I thought I'd never see on a modern app: "reticulating splines"
<diddledan_> on the hib android app
<neuro> what, you mean like on the latest version of Sim City?
<diddledan_> really? sim city still does that?
<neuro> yup
<daftykins> The SIMS always did too
<neuro> and stuff about llamas too
<daftykins> it's one of their things.
<MartijnVdS> diddledan_: it became a bit of an in-joke after SC2K
<ali1234> when i saw that on the HiB downloader i had to go and look where it was from because i knew i had seen it before
<MartijnVdS> http://sims.wikia.com/wiki/Reticulating_splines
<daftykins> aww
<daftykins> those linguistic abusers
<neuro> jumpin' jiminies
<neuro> http://speedtest.net/result/2782014998.png
<neuro> my best speedtest off speedtest.net, ever
<neuro> (the "~100 mi" bit is utterly fallacious btw)
<MartijnVdS> neuro: http://www.speedtest.net/result/2782025082.png
<neuro> bloody dutch
<MartijnVdS> neuro: I'm getting an upgrade to 500/500 soon
<neuro> bloody dutch
<MartijnVdS> neuro: yw ;)
<neuro> :)
<diddledan_> 500/500? what tech is that running on?
<neuro> uncapped?
<MartijnVdS> neuro: yes no limits
<neuro> no fup/shaping?
<MartijnVdS> none
<neuro> good grief
<MartijnVdS> diddledan_: fibre
<diddledan_> fttp?
<MartijnVdS> FttH, yes
<diddledan_> yeah, p/h they both mean the same
<MartijnVdS> Gigabit media converter (just plain ethernet)
<diddledan_> that's not fair
<MartijnVdS> diddledan_: premises/home
 * diddledan_ wants to be dutch now
<diddledan_> fscking BT dragging their heals
<diddledan_> heels**
<neuro> they're not really
<neuro> fibre is expensive to roll out
<MartijnVdS> they're rolling out fibre across the country here, 30-50% coverage now I think
<neuro> fttp (instead of fttc) is happening, but it costs
<diddledan_> neuro, yes, but it should have happened a decade ago
<neuro> and who would have paid for it?
<MartijnVdS> neuro: investment company + incumbent telco (KPN) pay for it here
<MartijnVdS> expected ROI of 20-30 years
<neuro> i mean who would have paid for it in 2003 in the UK
<MartijnVdS> neuro: banksters
<neuro> and remember
<neuro> nl = flat
<neuro> uk = not
<neuro> all uk bankers care about is latency to ny
<neuro> which is why we have tons of low latency transatlantic fibre
<MartijnVdS> neuro: Dutch roads are also very uniform
<neuro> that too
<MartijnVdS> which helps when you're opening them up
<neuro> exactly
<MartijnVdS> you can probably thank the germans for that
<neuro> heh
<diddledan_> "what did the germans ever do for us?"
<diddledan_> s/germans/romans/
<neuro> diddledan_: so my question would be, what can you get just now?
<neuro> can you get 80mbps fttc? 120mbps virgin?
<MartijnVdS> symmetric? :P
<neuro> na
<diddledan_> neuro, I'm paying a lot for 80Mbps with a 100GB cap
<neuro> almost all uk broadband is adsl or vdsl
<MartijnVdS> no DOCSIS/cable internet?
<neuro> diddledan_: cap?
<daftykins> neuro: no, tonnes of cable.
<neuro> how much is a lot, if you don't mind me asking?
<diddledan_> including the phone line around 60Â£
<neuro> daftykins: well, metres is probably more accurate a metric ;)
<neuro> diddledan_: you're getting screwed
<daftykins> Virgin Media is all over the place with their cable network
<diddledan_> neuro, I'm trying to get a MAC code now
<neuro> sky and bt do uncapped vdsl2 for 45-50 quid a month with the line
<shauno> I pay about â¬90 :/
<neuro> which is what i have
<neuro> (both of them)
<neuro> sky is my primary egress, bt my failover and bulk traffic line
<neuro> all tied together with pfsense
<diddledan_> nice
<daftykins> such overkill :(
<neuro> my homehub and whatever crap sky gave me are switched off and disconnected :D
<diddledan_> pfsense is awesome
<neuro> daftykins: i work from home, so, no
<neuro> worst case scenario is a power cut, where i can break out 3g if need be, and in dire straits my parents live about a mile away, so i can work from there, albeit with 3Mbps ADSL2+
<neuro> trying to get them to upgrade to vdsl
<mungbean> diplo: yes, and my friend mungojerry :)
<MartijnVdS> neuro: no wifi at the local starbucks? ;)
<neuro> MartijnVdS: my local starbucks is about 10-15mi away
<neuro> and i don't really like working from coffee shops
<shauno> my cable seems to stay up during power cuts, which is handy
<neuro> if you UPS the router, there's no reason it should go down
<MartijnVdS> shauno: yay upses ;)
<neuro> same with DSL
<MartijnVdS> neuro: well, if the other end has a power cut as well...
<neuro> that's on my list of Stuff to Buy
<neuro> MartijnVdS: the exchange is on a different substation, unlikely
<MartijnVdS> neuro: that's not guaranteed though
<neuro> odds of the exchange going completely down are slim
<shauno> heh, yeah, I have a few.  a UPS meant for a desktop keeps router&modem up for hours
<neuro> they'll have redundant supply from diverse suppliers, and generators
<neuro> and tbh, touch wood, power cuts here are rare
<diddledan_> neuro, how did you get the sky username and password for the pppoe?
<MartijnVdS> neuro: true, remnant of 'the old days' when they had to be up in case of bad stuff
<neuro> i've had 2 power cuts in the 13 years i've lived here, one about 12 years ago and one in april
<neuro> both due to emergency work required
<neuro> diddledan_: errr there's a calc that grabs it from the ssid and wpa2 key
<MartijnVdS> last power cut I experienced was during a 70mph storm in Sennen Cove a few months ago :)
<diddledan_> aah
<neuro> and it's not ppoe, it's something else
<MartijnVdS> one month, to be exact
<shauno> I haven't had a proper outtage, but plenty of "bumps" that are enough to drop the NAS
<shauno> they tend to reboot my lights too, which is annoying
<diddledan_> serialz?
<diddledan_> so it all goes dark because they reboot and then colour cycle the rainbow to indicate boot processes? :-p
<diddledan_> that'ld be .. weird
<neuro> diddledan_: aha ... MAC Encapsulated Routing, MER: http://wiki.ph-mb.com/wiki/MER#MER_Settings_for_Sky
<shauno> nah, they just reset to the default profile (closely matches a regular lightbulb)
<neuro> google for sky vdsl login or sky adsl login and you'll find calculators
<neuro> it's basically DHCP
 * MartijnVdS wrote a HOWTO for my fibre connection
<neuro> BT was easy, pppoe user of bthomehub@btbroadband.com with a blank password (or a space, IIRC)
<shauno> it's mostly annoying when they're meant to be off, and every light in the house comes on
<MartijnVdS> neuro: yeah, I use PPPoE as well, they don't check username or password at all
<MartijnVdS> so I taunted the person who reads logs
<neuro> bt do that most likely as they use the same router for ADSL2 and VDSL2 users
<neuro> with VDSL2 being provisioned using a separate VDSL modem, which then bridges over to the router
<neuro> so the auth is probably being done on the MAC layer
<neuro> i still have my old Alcatel green frog USB modem round here somewhere ...
<neuro> going from 56Kbps to 512Kbps was amazing
<MartijnVdS> haha, I had 64/128kbit in between (ISDN)
<MartijnVdS> and then 8mbit ADSL (yay working for ISPs)
<neuro> i thought about isdn, but settled on a second line + 24/7 dialup
<MartijnVdS> they were giving away ISDN here
<neuro> MartijnVdS: took me ages to coax free 8Mbps out of my ISP employer in 2006 ;)
<neuro> 24/7 dialup was interesting ... thousands of minutes on my phone bill with cost of Â£0.00
<MartijnVdS> how?
<shauno> heh, we did that with freeserve
<MartijnVdS> cpt crunch?
<neuro> BT SurfTime
<diddledan_> shauno, ditto
<MartijnVdS> dialup was always $expensive on this side of the water
<neuro> 25 quid a month to BT to enable the Surftime Anytime service, and another 20 quid a month to Demon for a Surftime compatible tariff
<diddledan_> problem with freeserve was the 2hour disconnect
<mungbean> great, baby entering pukey phase
<neuro> i had to do all sorts of shenanigans when living at home
<shauno> yeah.  if you paid for the isp, but not the calls, they'd drop you.  if you paid for the calls but not the isp, they didn't
<neuro> my dad wouldn't give me an extension in my room, or let me buy my own line
<diddledan_> neuro, ditto
<MartijnVdS> http://i.imgur.com/VvEyavQ.png
<neuro> so i bought a Nokia NK402 (basically a GSM1800 5110 on Orange)
<shauno> it would just be a nuisance, but we had that bt voicemail thing on our line, and it pulsed the dialtone to tell you you had a message waiting.  my modem wouldn't find a dialtone when it did that :/
<diddledan_> neuro, so I just tied up the family line 24/7
<neuro> got Orange Everyday 50 or whatever it was called
<neuro> and BT Openworld for tenner a month
<neuro> used BT Openworld on the 0800 number until midnight
<neuro> then used 50 minutes 0845 to Freeserve
<neuro> the phone was connected to a 486 running NT4 workstation with some random routing sw i can't remember the name of
<neuro> signal was crap, but it worked
<diddledan_> wingate?
<neuro> YES
<neuro> that's the fella
<MartijnVdS> oh man, wingate
<diddledan_> yeah, wingate was evil
<neuro> oh totally
<diddledan_> left open proxies all over the shop
<MartijnVdS> I'm so glad I discovered Linux in '97 ;)
<neuro> but it did the job
<MartijnVdS> slackware woo!
<neuro> oh how i miss slackware
<MartijnVdS> I broke my install in the libc5->6 upgrade
<shauno> heh, I started on slack 3.3 too
<MartijnVdS> so then I tried Red Hat, Debian, and several other distros.. so I picked Debian
<neuro> downloading the floppies in 1994 from uni
<neuro> then getting home and finding out one of them was corrupt
<diddledan_> ouch
<neuro> so had to wait to go back into uni the next day and reimage the floppy
<neuro> and go back home and start aaaaaall over again
<neuro> best day of my life was doing a debian netinst cd install and pulling the packages down over the 2Mbps link at work
<neuro> oh bliss
<neuro> look, the cd iso, it's TINY
<neuro> actually, that wasn't the *best* day of my *entire* life, but it was a good day
<daftykins> :D
<MartijnVdS> Uni had 10 mbit (10base2), so downloading was easy
<daftykins> not having broadband used to be a real lock on the door of Linux learning + use
<neuro> loser ;)
<daftykins> i kind of envy kids today for that
<neuro> i seem to recall gla.ac.uk having epic bandwidth
<MartijnVdS> neuro: in '97-8 10 mbit was a LOT
<neuro> downloading netscape from sunsite northern europe in ridiculous time
<MartijnVdS> oh sunsite, wow
<MartijnVdS> I remember that :)
<shauno> it didn't hold me back much, used to get debian on CD from thelinuxemporium
<neuro> MartijnVdS: in the UK, SuperJANET had already been deployed by the time i started uni in 94
<neuro> 34Mbps ATM
<neuro> 1995 it was 155Mbps
<neuro> 2001, 155-2.5Gbps
<MartijnVdS> neuro: yeah, Surfnet also had something like that.. but our "play room" just got a 10base2 wire, so we had that limit
<neuro> our little spodbox was on 10/100 \o/
<neuro> shauno: i loved the linux emporium!
<MartijnVdS> neuro: we had a big HP/UX box that you needed to kick when it was down
<neuro> blimeh, it's still going
<MartijnVdS> because the disks sagged
<neuro> although (and ahhh i remember this now), john sold it to chygwyn in 2003
<shauno> getting a full set of debian potato (binary & source) on CD was pretty epic when I was on dialup with the 2hour disconnect
<neuro> then it got sold onto thyme/clockwork in 2005
<neuro> shauno: nice
<diddledan_> shauno I used windows with getright for spanning multiple 2hour blocks
<brobostigon> watching bbc2, it seems heathrow airtraffic control use MS windows xp.
<shauno> I knew winters doesn't do it anymore, but didn't know where it'd gone.  not that I recognise any of the names
<neuro> MartijnVdS: we had a 486 frankenstein box hidden away in the water tank room of the students representatives council building :)
<neuro> chygwyn i vaguely recognise, but only with respect to them buying TLE
<neuro> and i see their registered address isn't far from my uncle's house :)
<neuro> randoM!
<MartijnVdS> neuro: we had a proper Pentium 1 233MHz (with MMX)
<neuro> noice
<MartijnVdS> and we had our own "play room" full of old Suns and X terminals and a big HP/UX fridge-sized machien
<shauno> odd name though, it's something-head in welsh?
<neuro> we had to figure something out when we all left uni, so we managed to get a PII under someone's desk at a hosting company ;)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: chygwyn? cygwin!
<neuro> then we went "kosher" and shoved a sun ss20 in a hoster's dc in nottingham
<neuro> then dual pIII in telehouse, and now some weird ESXi thing i've never seen in the same place
<neuro> shauno: well gwyn is a welsh name ...
<MartijnVdS> neuro: I never went to classes, so I got kicked out after a year.. so I joined my local (as in, in my town :)) ISP
<neuro> nice
<neuro> see, you guys are lucky, you don't have to route over hundreds of miles just to get to landing points
<neuro> or exchange points
<mungbean> yggdrasil
<neuro> if i want to connect to the linux box in my parents house, 1mi away, i have to go via london to get there
<neuro> ahhh yggdrasil, never used it
<mungbean> officially the first distro i think
<mungbean> i was rh5 in '99
<mungbean> solaris since 93 tho
<mungbean> i never touched windows until 96
<mungbean> risc os ftw
<neuro> i was all over the place
<neuro> win3.x and AIX in college 92-93, win3.x, mac os 7.whatever, sunos in uni 93-94, then the long march of win 3.x, 95, 98, 2k, win nt 3.5, 4.x, netware 3-4, debian, red hat in my first real job
<neuro> (oh and dos 5-6 in there as well)
<neuro> diddledan_: anyway, my point long ago was, you're on 80Mbps, but there are still some people in the UK who struggle to get 1Mbps, or even better than dialup.
<mgdm> +1
<mgdm> (not me, personally, but people I know)
<neuro> this is why crazy stuff happens like white space trials to use gaps in UHF 600-800Mhz for wireless backhaul to people up here in Scotland who refuse to move out of their idyllic cottages in remote places for some mad reason
<MartijnVdS> http://labs.spotify.com/2013/06/18/creative-usernames/
<MartijnVdS> neuro: We use 800MHz for 4G here..
<neuro> yeah, that's the plan here too
<MartijnVdS> neuro: but our remotest areas are parts of Groningen.. and they're close to Germany
<neuro> pain in the arse really, it's all about a cash/land grab
<neuro> they could have used the freqs freed up from analog tv to add more digital DVB-T/T2 muxes, but noooooo
<neuro> Ofcom wantee ze cashee goodness
<mungbean> http://i.imgur.com/EottKzr.jpg
<mungbean> tux caterpillar
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: does it run Linux? :)
<neuro> aaaaaaaaaaah kill it with fire
<MartijnVdS> neuro: it's not a spider
<neuro> it's a crawly thing
<neuro> and i mashed cmd+q instead of cmd+w to get rid of the tab
<neuro> Chrome's "Warn before quitting" option, ftw
<mungbean> did you see the penguins though neuro ?
<diddledan_> genetic engineering?
<mgdm> neuro: https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/6153751552/hC85366D2/
<neuro> all i saw was CRAWLY THING and mashed on keys
<neuro> mgdm: i need that
<mgdm> here's a tip, by the way
<neuro> nice akira references in there too
<neuro> mgdm: what, don't click on stuff?
<mgdm> if you're not a fan of crawly things, make sure you don't do a Google image search for 'NOPE'
<neuro> see, now i want to
<mgdm> No, you don't
<neuro> despite the obvious painful repercussions
<mungbean> some images cannot be unseen
<mungbean> i think of 2 or 3
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: http://mindbleach.org/
 * mungbean catches up with watching the inbetweeners
<mungbean> series1-3 in about 1 week
<neuro> mgdm: actually, ratio of creepy pics to image macros is pretty good
<mgdm> yeah, but the presence of the former makes me shiver, still
<diddledan_> so my humble bundle email arrived an hour after I bought it
<MartijnVdS> *\o/* going to Spa
<MartijnVdS> for F1
<MartijnVdS> everything is actually booked now
<diddledan_> \o/
<brobostigon> personally, i like to pop down the road, and visit some F1 engineers, and learn abit of controller programming.
<neuro> gits
<diddledan_> If they'd let me I'd pop over to the Williams headquarters for a chinwag
<diddledan_> about 20 miles?
<brobostigon> now that sounds fun.
<neuro> you're in oxfordshire?
<brobostigon> yes.
<diddledan_> north hampshire to be exact, but close
<neuro> blimeh
<neuro> i was there a fortnight ago
<mungbean> i drive past mclaren in woking a lot
<brobostigon> how the world is such a small place,
<neuro> http://4sq.com/13R4uut
<MartijnVdS> is that "aahhhhh" as in a relieved sigh, or as in "AAAAAAAAAGH SUNLIGHT TURN IT OFF"
<MartijnVdS> neuro: ^
<neuro> former
<neuro> i had had a pretty crappy day travelling the day prior
<neuro> ~ 10-11 hrs to go door to door
<bigcalm> Take a door with you
<neuro> ba dum tsh
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: That could end up like Neverwhere though
<neuro> would have been charged a fortune to check it in though
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: \o/ Neil Gaiman
<bigcalm> :)
 * MartijnVdS bought his new book.. it's next on my to-read list
<bigcalm> Last I read by him was Good Omens with Terry Pratechett. That was some time ago
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Ocean-End-Lane-Novel/dp/0062255657
<bigcalm> I have no experience of his novels other than Good Omens, so have no idea if I want to read that or not
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: I haven't read that one either.. you could start with Neverwhere, or American Gods, I guess
<MartijnVdS> I *know* those are good :)
<AlanBell> Good Omens is very good, but it was a lot Pratchett
<AlanBell> Gaiman isn't anywhere near as funny on his own
 * bigcalm goes to watch last night's Mythbusters
<MartijnVdS> I've tried to read Discworld.. but I can't
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: he might not be funny, but his stories are good :)
<AlanBell> I have rather a lot of discworld books
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I finished 2.5
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: then I gave up
<brobostigon> so does my dad, i prefer hitchhikers.
 * mgdm considers buying HHGTTG for the Kindle
<mgdm> as my dead-tree copy is about 200 miles away
<brobostigon> which one?
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: that's probably very meta ;)
<mgdm> all of 'em :-)
<brobostigon> :)
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: "the guide" (in the book) is a lot like a Kindle
<mgdm> MartijnVdS: the thought had crossed my mind :)
<mgdm> I've read it many times, just not for about 3 years
<brobostigon> i have the whole lot, read it all once, on a long coach journey.
<daftykins> mgdm: let's abuse tech - i'll put a laptop on my book and face it at pages with a webcam
<daftykins> XD
<mgdm> haha
<diddledan_> was this a kickstarter? http://www.fairphone.com/
<mungbean> i got the hhgtttg complete set on kindle for 2.19Â£
<MartijnVdS> wut
<mungbean> although i own in paper format, it made space in my house
<mungbean> must have been a special offer
<MartijnVdS> I can only use the US store :(
<mungbean> kindle daily deals
<MartijnVdS> Ultimate H2G2 = $18
<mungbean> thats the one
 * MartijnVdS has http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dining-With-The-Doctor-Unauthorized/dp/1481153684
<MartijnVdS> it was free when I got it
<mungbean> daily deals has been lame lately
<mungbean> thats a good thing
<mungbean> = less money spent on books
<popey> evening all
<MartijnVdS> \o popey
<popey> successfully turned home town from blue to green on ingress this evening
<MartijnVdS> you're green?
<MartijnVdS> my coworkers are blue
<MartijnVdS> apparently, my town is green.. so I heard
<diddledan_> o_O
<diddledan_> am I missing something?
<naderp> z
<MartijnVdS> diddledan_: http://www.ingress.com/
 * popey has a bunch of invites...
<diddledan_> sweet. that looks cool
<popey> want an invite?
<popey> (and do you have an android device)?
<diddledan_> I do, and I do
<diddledan_> :-p
<popey> gimmie your google account address (pm if you want)
<popey> sent
<diddledan_> done
<diddledan_> thankeee :-)
<popey> np
<Darael> ...anybody know of a set of programs that work like mh but can use a maildir instead of MH-format messagestores?
<mgdm> Darael: http://www.jeenyus.net/linux/mdmh.html ?
<Darael> mgdm: If that's the mdmh I've seen before, it's incomplete, explicitly inefficient, and hasn't had an work done since 2011.
<Darael> But yes, something very much like that is what I'm looking for.
<mgdm> Then, pass
<Darael> s/11/04/ (!)
<mgdm> I've not done anything that was CLI-based for mail in about 8 years, unless you count mutt
<mgdm> (this makes me happy)
<Darael> I like the idea of mh but the messagestore format is... ew.
<diddledan_> thank god for qmail
<diddledan_> (maildir is from qmail iirc)
<Darael> It is, yes.
<diddledan_> yey for dan bernstein then
<Darael> Although that the original spec doesn't provide for nested directories is something of an oversight.
<Darael> Still, no matter.  maildir++ may technically be a violation but it's a widely-supported one and one that doesn't cause problems with fully-compliant implementations.
#ubuntu-uk 2013-06-19
<knightwise> morning
<diplo> Morning all
<knightwise> hey diplo
<popey> morning all
<czajkowski> ello popey
<Gary> morning sexy people
<diplo> How's the states czajkowski ?
 * popey tickles Gary 
 * Gary makes a mess
<czajkowski> diplo: nt bad, been kinda busy to do sightseeing
<diplo> :(
<Gary> O_o  I mean by knocking stuff about with flailing arms and legs caused by the tickling, honest
<diplo> I'd love to visit the states at some point
<Gary> me too, if it wasn't for the americans
<popey> heh
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's nice to visit but sheesh I couldn't live there.
<popey> parts of it I could
<popey> the bits around the edges
<TheOpenSourcerer> Canada ;-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Boston is almost agreeable.
<TheOpenSourcerer> West Coast is just weird.
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: indeed
<czajkowski> I'm in NYC again nice to visit, but I'd never live here. nor would I raise a family here.
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<dogmatic69> anyone tried windows 8?
<dogmatic69> I think it is quite nice :D
<SuperMatt> D:
<SuperMatt> I'll be honest: once you disable to mordern-ui, it is indeed a very stable OS
<dogmatic69> even the funny blocks are quite good tbh. I thought it would be complete crap...
<diplo> Hated it myself, doubt I'll try again anytime soon
<mungbean> dogmatic69: about to replace win8 with win7 for mother-in-law
<dogmatic69> Only tried it because I got my GF a new laptop and that is what was on it.
<mungbean> there is trying and using
<SuperMatt> I'm sure on a laptop the modern ui isn't too bad, but I have dual 24" screens. I don't want to see only 5 options at a time
<BigRedS> I don't care how many options I see, I like the idea that MS is switching to a search-based desktop
<DJones> BigRedS: Canonical should sue them for copying the dash interface/idea (as a desktop search idea)
<BigRedS> was it canonical's idea?
<DJones> Probably not, but everybody seems to be sueing everybody else for things just as frivolous
<DJones> eg round corners..Surely the chickens should sueing over that (assuming the chicken really did come first)
 * DJones debates whether to instal the KDE desktop to have a play with
<BigRedS> I've been wondering that recently
<BigRedS> trying to work out what the best debian-based KDE experience is likely to be
<DJones> I'm also contemplating give slackware another go (in a virtualbox) to see how its changed since I last used it (6-7 years should have seen some considerable improvements)
 * popey notes that windows 7 had search, along with osx, ios and android, long before ubuntu did
<popey> on windows 7 I press the windows key and then type what I want - just like ubuntu
<brobostigon> just like in gnome3.
<diplo> yeah always liked that feature
<diplo> Used to have a plugin on windows before they had that option to do it
<DJones> Must admit, I've not used Win 7 long enough to find that out
<diplo> If ubuntus dash was faster I'd be happier, defo better now in 13.04
<knightwise> I use Kupfer as a launcher .. faster then dash and the launcher
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<AlanBell> did windows 7 not have an applications menu on the start button like XP then?
<AlanBell> I am using gnome fallback at the moment and my "other" bit of the applications menu is 5 1/2 screens tall
<diplo> It does AlanBell, but not very easy to navigate imo, I rarely used it.. just typed the app I wanted to start
<AlanBell> bit like unity then
<AlanBell> just give up and type it
<AlanBell> which isn't really an option on the phone, that has to be navigable graphically
<diplo> yeah pretty much
<popey> uhm
<popey> no
<popey> phone has dash search and hud
<popey> on my iphone I search for apps rather than hunt around for an icon on some random page in a folder somewhere
<popey> same on ubuntu phone
<diplo> I can do that on android, can't say I ever have though
<diplo> I always launch from the icon
<diplo> Where as PC/lappy I always type to search, prefer that
<popey> i have less on my android phone so easier to find stuff
<popey> iphone is full of stuff
<diplo> :)
<popey> 156 apps on my iphone (just counted)
<diplo> bloomin eck!
<diplo> I've only had my 'new' GS2 for a couple of months, my Wildfire I couldn't install more than about 10-15 apps before it ran out of space..
<popey> 113 on android
<diplo> So it's quite new to me to be able to install more apps :)
<brobostigon> according to google play, i have 186 apps on my nexus7.
<dogmatic69> anyone know how to use variables in /etc/fstab ?
<dogmatic69> seems like the usual bash way does not work.
<dogmatic69> [mntent]: line 15 in /etc/fstab is bad
<BigRedS> usual bash? What does line 15 look like?
<dogmatic69> var="foobar";
<BigRedS> does that normally work? I don't see why it would...
<dogmatic69> yep, how else do you define variables then?
<BigRedS> I never have in an fstab
<BigRedS> But I've never really wanted to
<dogmatic69> ye, i will just move it
<dogmatic69> I am mounting a bunch of things so instead of repeating just use variables.
<dogmatic69> eg: $address/backups /home/dogmatic69/Backups $config
<dogmatic69> instead of //<ip>/path /local/path cifs uid=dogmatic69 credentials=/home/dogmatic69/.smbpassword,iocharset=utf8,sec=ntlm 0 0
<dogmatic69> they all the same besides the paths, no point duplicating it all over imo
<BigRedS> man fstab doesn't seem to say it supports variables
<BigRedS> and it would seem weird to - it's a pretty static file and most text editors can replicate the use of a variable :)
<dogmatic69> ye, I will just make a .sh file and put /some/path/file.sh in rc.local
<BigRedS>  :%s/defaults/defaults,ro/g   rather than editing the value of $options or something
<BigRedS> yeah, that seems the more normal way of doing it
<dogmatic69> I was following this btw https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MountWindowsSharesPermanently
<dogmatic69> it says in fstab
<BigRedS> that doesn't seem to use any variables
<dogmatic69> ye
<dogmatic69> man, the command does not even work...
<popey> yay, my home server has 3 9's uptime! :D
<popey>    %up               99.926 | since                     Sat Nov 10 06:34:31 2012
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5779882/
<JamesTai2> Good morning all - have a happy, relaxed World Sauntering Day. :)
<brobostigon> 23c this afternoon, can i spend the day in the fridge, will help me and my eeepc to not overheat aswell.
<knightwise> brobostigon: what eeepc do you have ?
<brobostigon> knightwise: 900 ssd.
<dogmatic69> does 'mount -t cifs' not work with ip addresses?
<mungbean> its not warm at all here in london
<Laney> i so love being on hold to east midlands trains
<mungbean> dogmatic69: you mean smbmount?
<Laney> their "all our agents are busy" recorded man sounds pleasantly gruff
<dogmatic69> mungbean: smbmount is no more, hence my problems...
<dogmatic69> update to 13 and its gone. got it working with mount -t now
<popey> bigcalm: gimmie a gmail account you want inviting
<TheOpenSourcerer> I've never heard of it. What are you supposed to do exactly? Am looking at the website but that tells me zilch as far as I can tell.
<popey> bigcalm: sent
<popey> you install the app and login, then it shows a map like screen around your area
<popey> you get notified of "portals" near you
<christel> is it like geocaching but with pubs?
<popey> these could be statues, pubs, or other significant buildings / structures
<bigcalm> popey: ta :)
<mgdm> Oh, i knew someone who played that
<mgdm> or, something very similar. It was probably in 2011 in Montreal, though...
<TheOpenSourcerer> And what are you supposed to do then?
<popey> you walk towards them and you will see they are "owned" (or not) by a team - there's two teams, Blue (Resistance) and Green (Enlightened)
<popey> (I am green)
<popey> (and so should you be)
<popey> when you get within range you can "hack" the portal
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'm getting bored already.
<mungbean> lol
<mungbean> sounds boring
<popey> nvm then
<TheOpenSourcerer> No offence
<popey> it isnt
<popey> but its hard to explain
<popey> forget it
<mungbean> 4sq for boys
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'm playing Golf on Friday :-D
<TheOpenSourcerer> A proper game.
<mungbean> umm
<popey> hey ho
<mungbean> golf is linkedin before computers
<TheOpenSourcerer> yay
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOAy-_GUQ1Q explains it better
<popey> and with video so people dont get bored reading text
<bigcalm> That's a well produced app
<mungbean> bet it eats battery
<popey> spent the evening out walking last night doing it and most people had battery extenders or external battery packs
<popey> so yeah, it eats battery
<popey> a guy I was with had full charge when we started, it was near dead after 2 hours
 * brobostigon also has 5 invites.
<mungbean> uses all functions of phone all at once
<mungbean> screen is worst though i guess
<brobostigon> or tablet.*
<popey> 3g/gpu
<bigcalm> Well, I have a glass of orange juice and a bowl of grapes and raspberries. I win!
<popey> one guy had a nexus 10 with him
<popey> tethered to his phone
<mungbean> i was reading the n7 thread on reddit about how it sux because the wear on the SSD is causing slowdown
<popey> link?
<mungbean> http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/1gkiuv/one_year_later_the_nexus_7_has_gone_from_the_best/
<popey> interesting
<popey> one guy had a galaxy s3 out with him, the colour on it was unnaturally bright, made my nexus 4 look really washed out
<Laney> yeah i have noticed my n7 slowing down
<Laney> bet phablet-flash is doing a number on the work one ...
<mungbean> anything about the n7 hardware in particular though i wonder?
<mungbean> or just lots of owners who say me too
<popey> cant say I have noticed it slowing down, it's slow anyway probably the multi-user thing doesn't help
<popey> takes ages to switch to another user
<mungbean> "Yes, and both are caused by IO waits in the kernel from the eMMC controller locking and trying to deal with degraded flash."
<BigRedS> Whoo! I have a Galaxy S3
<bigcalm> BigRedS: just as the S4 comes out. Nice timing
<BigRedS> I'm not sure how long this attempt to stick with vendor Android is going to last, though. This feel sinister in the same way as all those installers that quietly install IE toolbars
<BigRedS> yeah, I didn't find any particularly good reason to get the 4 over the 3
<BigRedS> and otterbox make an indestructible case for the 3
<bigcalm> BigRedS: I've been quite happy with the vendor install on my S3
<BigRedS> bigcalm: yeah, it just feels really low on features and config options
<BigRedS> I can't work out how to make the app drawer thing behave like I thought it always did, for example. It wants me to swipe sideways through pages...
<directhex> i still don't like android
<BigRedS> It's not that bad
<BigRedS> it's a lot like the Linux desktop in that it feels like it's not-quite-finished and nobody's decided to treat it as a product yet
<diplo> BigRedS: That's a Samsung thing I believe, probably an 'app' for that :D
<BigRedS> diplo: I've been using the Go launcher for ages which does work that way. But if I'm going to install that I might as well just stick a working image on :) Think I'll give it more than 20 mins before I conclude my judgement :)
<BigRedS> well, I'll try :)
<Laney> I immediately de-samsungified my S3 :-)
<diplo> I need to do my S2, but everytime I look at rooting it I find about 20 different options and decide I cba to look
<diplo> Different way for different kernels etc
<diplo> And last time I couldn't find it correctly, unless someone has a better way of rooting / flashing :)
<BigRedS> my S2 was pretty straightforward I think
<mgdm> I want a current Android phone - my main phone is an iPhone 4S, and my gf has my old HTC Desire, but it's on its last legs
<Laney> I just followed the CM instructions
<BigRedS> 'cause I got it a while after release, so everything had calmed down and I just followed the cyanogen howto
<Laney> get clockwork from here, do this, get CM from get.cm, ???, profit
<BigRedS> That's generally the best way - wait 'til it's been out for six weeks or so and teh instructions are down, and then it's a trivial install
<diplo> I'll look again, it was the rooting part I think was the issue, I did my wildfire which was a PITA but found it simple enough to follow, last time I looked at the S2 I thought bah
<BigRedS> HTCs need some specially-formatted microsd card IIRC
<diplo> heh yep
<diplo> A goldcard or something from memory
<BigRedS> yeah
<BigRedS> Ooh, should probably stick Ubuntu on my S2...
<diplo> I was going to try it aswell, but not completed yet last time i checked
<BigRedS> Yeah, no phone-function support - GSM, 3G etc.
<diplo> OK, found a good wiki for use with heimdall
<BigRedS> so I'd end up with a tablet that's smaller than my phone :)
<diplo> Will try in my lunch
<DJones> Out of interest and non computer related, has anybody here had a new boiler fitted recently? Just getting some quotes and wanted some comparisons if possible
<diplo> Fitted my own, so probably don't count, but it does seem a bit of a rip off after what it took to fit mine
<DJones> I wouldn't take the risk of fitting my own, knowing little about wiring up/connecting gas etc, it'll probably be my cousin installing it, so its mostly going to be the cost of the equipment
<diplo> Well mine was about 6/700 quid a few years ago
<diplo> But I have a friend who works at a plumbing supply place, wasn't cost, but was cheaper
<diplo> And yeah, father in law and me fitted it so that makes it cheaper for you as well
<DJones> That sounds about similar to what he saying, I'm also getting a couple of thermostatic valves for radiators and a hand held remote control/thermostat
<diplo> yeah, I did the whole house whilst fitting the boiler, new radiators throughout and thermostatics on all
<diplo> Including pipes etc I think I spent ~2k ish
<diplo> Which is still cheaper than a boiler being fitted by an external person, let alone the rest
<diplo> I'm sure my sisters 1 bed flat, they wanted 3/3500k to fit radiators ( 2 ) and a boiler!
<DJones> That doesn't surprise me, one bloke quoted around Â£1500 for the boiler & fitting alone, not including valves & remote
<diplo> I would have got my father in law to do it if I was still married :)
<DJones> I priced up the boiler one the web and that was under Â£750, so was doubling the price for labour
<diplo> It's really wrong, but they have the market so you're screwed..
 * diplo recommends doing a course and doing it yourself
<diplo> Then pay someone to sign it off
<DJones> Heh
<diplo> Still be cheaper!
<DJones> I'm sure it would, but more stressful afterwards....Is that gas inlet joint I soldered really safe...
<DJones> Specially with a nagging wife asking questions
<diplo> Bottle of testing guess to test that :)
<diplo> lol, there is that :D
<DJones> Knowing mine, she'll stood in the shower saying is it done yet, as soon as I start taking the packaging off the new one
<diplo> heh
<mungbean> http://www.psmag.com/blogs/news-blog/dim-lighting-sparks-creativity-60437/
<diplo> So virtualbox or KVM peeps? As we have the all evil Oracle :)
<mungbean> vmware?
<diplo> Could do I guess, whats the free version like ?
<mungbean> good
<mungbean> well good enough for most
<mungbean> depends if u wanna use shared storage and vmotion
<mungbean> whats the use case?
<diplo> Just local VM's for CentOs/Ubuntu/Debian for testing
<diplo> Keep meaning to try KVM, but VBox I've gotten used to, but it's not the end of the world. Just thought I'd ask other peoples thoughts
<mungbean> i'd prob use kvm
<mungbean> but i use vmware in case i ever need to transfer to the office VM environment
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: watch out.. next thing you know you'll be saying "I'd totes use kvm"
<diplo> mungbean: I saw you post a link last night, were you oimon before ?
<mungbean> yes
<mungbean> and mungojerry
<mungbean> i change about once per year to shake off google
<diplo> hah, wondered where you disappeared to a few months ago
<mungbean> :D
<diplo> I've not changed my nick in about 10 years, started off as the_diplomat or something I think
<diplo> And everyone shortened it to diplo
<mungbean> cloudstack is now an apache project btw
<diplo> Not sure what cloudstack is, will google later
<mungbean> like openstack
<jpds> mungbean: Still written in Java.
<mungbean> :(
<mungbean> The current release of CloudStack supports pre-packaged enterprise solutions like Citrix XenServer and VMware vSphere, as well as KVM or Xen running on Ubuntu or CentOS.
<jpds> diplo: What's there to 'try' with KVM?
<mungbean> as yoda would say "do or do not, there is no try"
<jpds> It's just another virt technology.
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: try {} catch {}
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: or maybe Yoda prefers Perl, where "try" is written as "eval {}"
<diplo> jpds: Setting it up I guess, the differences of
<jpds> diplo: sudo apt-get install kvm virt-manager libvirt-bin
<jpds> diplo: Done.
<mungbean> virt-manager is grim
<mungbean> typical redhat creation
<diplo> :)
<diplo> Installing as I type
<jpds> mungbean: It does the job for a test VM environment.
<diplo> That's all I require really
<diplo> Used KVM a few years ago, but not touched it since
<BigRedS> mungbean: it could be worse
<jpds> MartijnVdS: http://devopsreactions.tumblr.com/post/50153934733/try-catch
<davmor2> popey, bigcalm: broken sword should now be available for download
<diplo> heh jpds, I've had to catch my kids like that more than once.. I've never had to do it carrying another though! Skills!!
<popey> davmor2: i see it in the list
<davmor2> popey: woohoo!
<bigcalm> davmor2: not in Steam yet
<davmor2> bigcalm: Y U SWEAR AT ME! ;)
<bigcalm> davmor2: keep with the times man!
<bigcalm> Found it to be quite suited to being played on my tablet
<popey> http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/google-create-a-native-linux-google-drive-application
<popey> someone pointed me at that
<popey> 0 signatories
<popey> i thought that had been around ages, would have thought someone would have signed it by now
<TheOpenSourcerer> "with 9,114 supporters"
<popey> "with 0 supporters
<popey> "
<popey> hah, must be adblock or something
<mungbean> WFM with adblock
<popey> ah no, its because i block google analytics
<mungbean> 9114 now
 * popey hugs ghostery
<mungbean> 886 needed
<mungbean> until nothing happens
<popey> +1
<mgdm> popey: did you see the thing the other day about how Ghostery sends tracking data to the ad company that owns it?
<popey> that is an option
<popey> which I switched off on install
<mgdm> Ah; the article I had read suggested that wasn't simple to do
<popey> tickbox
<mgdm> I've not tried it myself though
<popey> i like it
<mungbean> what's the longest uptime on any of your servers right now?
<mgdm> 377 days
<directhex> high uptime is fancy talk for "does not apply kernel patches"
<mgdm> that's a dev VM, though
<mungbean> 606 atm
<mungbean> i managed > 1111 days on a solaris box
<mungbean> only turned it off to decommision
<mungbean> most vulnerabilities are local exploit
<mungbean> not remote
<mgdm> did you see the video of the SunOS box that was turned off after 3000+ days of uptime?
<mgdm> It was like a wake
<mungbean> happy or sad one?
<popey> also seen elsewhere today.. "Uptime is just a measure of the number of known kernel bugs you have on your system."
<mgdm> mungbean: sad
<popey> i liked the netware one too
<popey> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/03/epic-uptime-achievement-can-you-beat-16-years/
<popey> 6030 days
<mgdm> popey: blimey
<AlanBell> impressive power reliability
<mungbean> or generator
<mungbean> more impressive hardware reliability :D
<mungbean> receiving Spam from SAP
<mungbean> not welcome
<mungbean> especially when a chat window opens on the unsub page
<popey> hahah
 * popey looks out the window and remembers SAP
<davmor2> popey: you remember being a what?
<redtape|renegade> OT : Not sure if Doctor Wholy is on in an hour but here's a vidz off a tweet I got today from Bosnia .. seems to travel ! :::: | http://youtu.be/eRm8qmM-DTg?t=4m18s | ::::  http://www.tvguide.co.uk/episodeguide.asp?title=Doctor+Who&  :::: Apologies if I have posts the vid. before...
<redtape|renegade> leaves.
 * brobostigon captured an ingress portal, man.
<mungbean> that redtape guy..what's all that about?
<popey> dunno, I personally find it irritating
<mungbean> whats the point dumping a OT link and running away?
<mungbean> its just noise
<christel> is that all he ever does
<christel> drive-by spam that is
<popey> mostly, yes
<mungbean> does he do it on other chans too?
<christel> i noticed it a couple of times before
<BigRedS> yeah, he seems to keep doing that
<BigRedS> or she...
<christel> he wouldnt appear to be in any other channels, i have no idea if he joins and does that and immediately parts elsewhere too or just here
<DJones> Occasionally he does talk for a bit
<mungbean> at night
<mungbean> when the moon is bright
<Gary> but only on a full moon
<mungbean> Out of the night, when the full moon is bright, comes a horseman known as Zorro. This bold (redtape)renegade carves a Z with his blade, a Z that stands for Zorro.
 * Laney just did a huge burp and a child outside screamed at the "loud noise"
<mgdm> \o/
<mungbean> lol
<BigRedS> haha
<DJones> One for cat lovers amongst you http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/17/us-mexico-cat-idUSBRE95G17820130617
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<dosagima> Evening
<mungbean> lego  movie? i supppose it was inevtable
<mungbean> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1490017/#lb-vi3947800089
<daftykins> http://imgur.com/P4RfyeM,6ge6fjv,JbOlygV,dAmT9wq,if8WI0P,TSOT2x7
<daftykins> new LCD for my friends' sisters laptop hasn't quite worked D:
<neuro> yay, youtube is b0rked
<daftykins> oh?
<neuro> 503ing like a boss
<daftykins> ooh yes
<daftykins> 502 that time for me \o/
<daftykins> aren't i speshul
<SuperEngineer> UUPC time folks!
<daftykins> who, what?
<SuperEngineer> daftykins: ububtu-uk-podcast
<daftykins> oh that still goes on
 * neuro installs ububtu
<SuperEngineer> no comment
 * neuro is uninstalling ububtu
<neuro> it's rubbish
<neuro> obviously just a lame rip off of ubuntu with a different name
<zleap> neuro, in what way,  granted i am using Lubuntu
<neuro> zleap: it's a joke from earlier
<zleap> ok sorry
<neuro> np :)
<mungbean> just watched les revenants
<zleap> k
<mungbean> anyone watching it?
<neuro> i'd be a bit of a wazzock to come into an ubuntu channel and say "ubuntu is rubbish"
<mungbean> it happens
<neuro> mungbean: no
<neuro> and yes, i know it happens
<mungbean> just before kicked off
<neuro> but i'm in here all the time
<daftykins> neuro: and yet it really does happen :(
<neuro> so if *I* was to do that ...
<neuro> i mean i make snipey comments about things occasionally
<neuro> but those are just opinions
<daftykins> well i'd certainly think less of you :>
<neuro> the thrill of trolling aside, i never understand the need to bash other people about why their choice of X is rubbish
<Azelphur> http://uk.insight.com/apps/productpresentation?product_id=0001792065 this looks kinda interesting, has Â£100 cashback, so works out at like Â£78
<Azelphur> says it's RHEL certified too
<neuro> unless your choice is clearly wrong, in which case, you suck and i rule
<Azelphur> pondering getting one :P
<neuro> wow, cheapest N54L i've seen in a while
<neuro> Azelphur: if you need grunt, they're crap
<neuro> the CPU is comparable to an Atom
<Azelphur> neuro: ah, atm my home server is using a sempron 140
<neuro> yeah for a storage box, it's el neato
<Azelphur> I wonder how the power would be on that thing though
<neuro> shame the sata ports aren't hot plug
<neuro> neuro@saratoga:~$ cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep -i bogo
<neuro> bogomips	: 2994.91
<neuro> bogomips	: 2995.07
<Azelphur> wonder if it'd take a full size PCIe gpu too
<neuro> iirc no
<Azelphur> aww
<Azelphur> then yea, think I'll pass, my current box is probably ample
<Azelphur> case only takes one hdd though which is a bit shit
<neuro> your current one?
<Azelphur> yea, my current home server box
<neuro> and watch your language :)
<Azelphur> hehe
<neuro> in theory you could boot the n54l off of a usb stick
<neuro> and use the 4 bays for RAIDy goodness
<neuro> i say in theory, i know people who have done it
<neuro> i just use mine as a general purpose odds-and-ends storage box
<neuro> 2 USB drives for backups and 1 internal 2TB for "stuff"
<neuro> and whatever it came with for the OS
<Azelphur> yea, it'd be really cool at that no doubt
<neuro> it is
<Azelphur> like a NAS on steriods for cheap :)
<neuro> pretty much
<neuro> i use rsnapshot, so it's not exactly nippy
<Azelphur> oh me too, does it not perform well for that?
<neuro> then again if i swapped out the 2GB for 8GB, it might cache better
<neuro> well to be fair i have a lot of stuff being backed up
<Azelphur> yea, I backup a lot too, from my server
<neuro> at least 10 gig of maildirs, which is the real pain in the bum
<neuro> lots of tiny files + hard link creation = slooooooow
<Azelphur> hehe
<neuro> my hourly backups take about 70 minutes
<neuro> where "hourly" = the default every 4 hours
<Azelphur> I always loved that, it confused me for so long.
<Azelphur> scumbag rsnapshot eh ;)
<neuro> 30 mins is taken up with the initial cp -al, and the last 20 minutes is expiring out the old backup
<neuro> well yeah :)
<neuro> but it works oh so well
<Azelphur> indeed it does
<neuro> i have 6 months of backups from loads of sources in a nice tidy half terabyte chunk of hard linked disk
<Azelphur> yea, I have 2x 3TB plugged into my home server at the moment...via USB2
 * Azelphur cringes
<neuro> been there, done that
<neuro> it'll bite you in the backside at some point
<Azelphur> no doubt
<neuro> i had 6x 1TB USB2 on my old server
<neuro> lost the whole smash (RAID5) when i lost two drives in quick succession
<Azelphur> haha, ouch
<neuro> yeah
<Azelphur> I'm not raiding at all, this is just for movies mostly
<Azelphur> so, the internet is my backup \o/
<neuro> i now have 2 readynas boxes, 11TB of RAIDy goodness
<neuro> ha
<Azelphur> nice
<neuro> and i just mount stuff over nfs or afp
<neuro> one of them has my homedirs on it too, which is handy
<neuro> since i run a few ubuntu instances in the house
<Azelphur> cool :)
<neuro> and they get backed up to mr rsnapshot on the N45L
<Azelphur> would be nice to move my backups onto
<neuro> pretty sure this lot won't fit on a 1TB RAID1 array
<neuro> root@saratoga:~# du -sch /data/cargobays/*/Video
<neuro> 3.6T	/data/cargobays/0/Video
<neuro> 2.1T	/data/cargobays/1/Video
<neuro> 5.6T	total
<Azelphur> atm I do backups on my desktop, which has the problem of whenever my desktop gets modified, I stop taking backups.
<neuro> i have backups all over the place
<neuro> all linux stuff and sysconfigs from desktop macs go to rsnapshot
<neuro> macs go to timemachine using various sources (mainly fw and usb drives)
<neuro> windows ... meh
<neuro> all i use those for is vsphere and steam/origin
<neuro> if they break i'll just reinstall vsphere and the steam/origin clients and redownload games :D
<Azelphur> happen to know how much power it pulls?
<neuro> gawd knows
<Azelphur> I'm tempted to get it to use as a NAS to get the storage away from my HTPC frontend
<neuro> a lot
<neuro> my leccy bill is ~ Â£1Kpa
<Azelphur> haha
<directhex> i have games which don't run on steam/windows but run on steam/linux
<directhex> which is runny
<neuro> which reminds me, i must be due a meter reading soon
<directhex> funny
<Azelphur> I'll sleep on it and see if I still want it in the morning ;)
<neuro> watch out, they tend to sell out
<Azelphur> ah
<neuro> ebuyer had a run on them last week
<Azelphur> spose I'm not going to find anything better/cheaper to plug a bunch of HDDs into
<neuro> rpi?
<neuro> :)
<Azelphur> does that have satas?
<neuro> no but it has usbs
<Azelphur> yea, that's bad ;)
<neuro> usb + powered hub + usb sata cradles :)
<Azelphur> that's what I'm doing atm, just piling USB hdds
<neuro> yeah, don't do that
<neuro> in all seriousness
<Azelphur> indeed, it's bad
<neuro> i am the cautionary tale
<neuro> i went from 8 IDE drives piled up inside a P4 server to 6 USB hanging off a Pentium D to PROPER NAS BOXES :)
<neuro> guess which is more reliable
<Azelphur> hehe
<neuro> but yeah for storage, that N40L is a pretty good deal
<neuro> N54L, soz
<neuro>  Timing buffered disk reads: 416 MB in  3.00 seconds = 138.46 MB/sec
<daftykins> that sounds like burst
<daftykins> yip
<Azelphur> lol I broke gedit
<Seeker`> Azelphur: you break everything :P
<Azelphur> indeed
#ubuntu-uk 2013-06-20
<diplo> Morning all
<popey> Morning
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Dump the Pump Day and happy World Refugee Day! :-)
<Laney> dump the pump!?!?
<mungbean> wonders if JamesTait does this manually or there's a web scarper for him
<mungbean> s/ar/ra
<dogmatic69> mysql workbench on 13.04 is a bit broken. http://i.imgur.com/QS6pdxd.png
<JamesTait> mungbean, I really should script it, but no, I just check the two web pages myself and pick one that looks interesting.
<dogmatic69> any idea what is going on there?
<dogmatic69> I have tried a few versions now and all doing the same.
<mungbean> obligatory xkcd about scripts
<dwatkins> this one, mungbean? http://xkcd.com/974/
<diplo> Learning bzr at the mo, so basically I've created a repo on my local PC using init-repo called python-scripts/trunk
<diplo> Decided I want to have a main server that's always on in headoffice to host
<diplo> I've installed bzr on there, want to push my initial commits from my local PC to there
<diplo> Do I need to init a repo on the remote box, or bzr clone from the remote box from my repo ?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<davmor2> Morning all
<czajkowski> davmor2: *pokes*
<davmor2> czajkowski: I got something here for you...../me digs around in his pocket for bit..................................../me produces a  PROD! from his pocket
<Gary> a prod, umm sure
 * Gary prods davmor2 
<Gary> giggity
<MartijnVdS> cattle prod?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Who said "Cattle Prod"? https://twitter.com/opensourcerer/status/347667649204994048/photo/1
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: no I'm not that cruel, well not currently anyway, I'll wait till she really annoys me for that :)
<mungbean> its funny to see people from this irc channel commenting on reddit with the same names
<mungbean> seems out of place
<popey> hah
<mungbean> notice BigRedS_  and directhex there
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: Reddit names tend to be more.. vulgar
<mungbean> potato_in_my_anus
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: that's you?
<mungbean> no lol
<directhex> why's it odd? directhex is my identity on the webs.
<mungbean> dunno why, i expect reddit to be more anonymous
<MartijnVdS> directhex: but it's not vulgar and/or offensive!
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: "back in the day" reddit was just like any other site you need a username for..
<mungbean> suddenly by associating it with a known nom-de-plume gives it connections to other sites
 * MartijnVdS dusts off his "5 year club" trophy
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: I think I know your reddit username though ;)
<mungbean> i have a lot
<mungbean> i do have one connected with this irc , yes
<mungbean> (theyreby negating my argument) but i have 3 others,
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: you're cationbot! :)
<MartijnVdS> (not the lack of 'p')
<mungbean> seems to have only UPPERCASE letters
<directhex> mungbean, i never said it was my *only* reddit account
<directhex> mungbean, there's also the one i use for posting naked pictures...
<mungbean> of course, we all have that
<popey> o/
<popey> I don't
<mungbean> *doesn't either
<directhex> you post naked under yoiur main popey account? :o
<popey> popeydc
<mungbean> dc stands for?
<popey> dot com
<popey> its what i use when popey is unavailable
<popey> my nickname was in fact popey dot com before it was popey, oddly
<Gary> popey, where are these pictures you tempt me with?
<mungbean> eww
<directhex> lol
<mungbean> i haven't been out in the garden for a couple of weekends and the grass is > 3ft high
<dwatkins> popey: broken link on there to http://uk.linkedin.com/in/popey
<mungbean> changed some cleartype settings on my laptop and can't reverse them or reset to defaults :(
<mungbean> turning off is terrible too
<popey> dwatkins: where?
<dwatkins> popey: IT professional, iirc
<popey> dwatkins: no, i mean where is the link?
<dwatkins> oh, on your homepage eluded to above
<dwatkins> the one with the dictionary-like display
<popey> ah
<popey> ta
<dwatkins> welcome :)
<popey> \o/ fixed
<dwatkins> I like your fix, too.
<popey> â»
<dwatkins> not sure if unicode circle or some other character
<popey> smiley
<dwatkins> I blame iTerm2 for getting it wrong.
<mungbean> WFM
<dwatkins> ...or possibly OS X
<shauno> it works here, it just looks like a solid dot at most sensible sizes
<MartijnVdS> ð
<shauno> âº seems to work better because it has an empty fill instead of a solid fill
<popey> the woman behind the ouya has freaky coloured eyes
<dwatkins> interesting, if I copy & paste the character into TextWrangler, it displays correctly as a face.
 * dwatkins unhibernates his Ubuntu vm
<shauno> WFM in iterm, just the features are barely perceivable
<popey> 40 quid for another ouya controller
<mungbean> how much is the device
<mungbean> 99Â£?
<MartijnVdS> popey: PS3 controllers are â¬60 here
<MartijnVdS> ð
<dwatkins> popey's original smiley looks fine from Ubuntu terminal/ssh/irssi, of course
<shauno> http://cl.ly/image/122s3M1V0Y1s   it's there, it's just useless at that size :(
<mungbean> i have small text in this sesh
<mungbean> ctrl - 2 or 3 times from a normal terminal for irc
<popey> yes mungbean
<popey> http://www.game.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/HubArticleView?hubId=214785&articleId=214786&storeId=10151
<popey> 99 in game
<popey> inc one controller
<mungbean> oh, they sell them in shiops?
<mungbean> if i had a proper telly i would get one
<popey> starts selling next week
<mungbean> only scart in mine
<popey> so I hear
<mungbean> cool
<mungbean> at the casual end of gaming
<mungbean> what video out , only hdmi?
<popey> yes
<popey> not a great selection of launch titles
<popey> the fact that it runs N64 emulator is nice though â»
<mungbean> so it can run standard android market games?
<mungbean> and if i've bought them on my tablet already?
<popey> not that i can see so far
<popey> unless you get the apk and "side load" (ick)
<mungbean> no to 1) or 2)?
<mungbean> or both :(
<popey> same question phrased differently really
<popey> however, it has a micro-usb port
 * popey looks for a cable and adb
<dwatkins> I hate the phrase "side load", but I hear it all the time in relation to iOS
<popey> i hate the phrase
<BigRedS_> what is side loading? It was all over the comments for an app I was looking at the other day
<mungbean> can you browse the regular android market from ouya and install apps?
<dwatkins> http://www.itworld.com/personal-tech/358540/how-side-load-apps-ouya-console for anyone not already on this page
<popey> no
<mungbean> BigRedS_: popping the apk onto the device , bypassing app store
<mungbean> liek what you do if you wanted to run asus supernote on a non asus tablet
<ali1234> is this ouya?
<popey> yes
<mungbean> has anyone released ouyabunu?
<ali1234> does it run the humble bundle android stuff?
<popey> hah
<mungbean> ouyabuntu
<mgdm> that reads like you've just stubbed your toe
<ali1234> ubuntu port should be pretty easy with libhybris
<popey> the standard android settings screen is somewhat limited
<popey> can't even turn on usb debug it seems
<ali1234> wat
<ali1234> how do you develop games for it then?
<popey> oh, no
<popey> i didnt scroll far enough â»
<Gary> popey, when are you going to release a version of ubuntuphone for the mako? :p
<popey> its already out Gary
<Gary> O_O  isitwootwhereiwantit
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install#Supported_devices_and_codenames
<popey> the preview anyway
<popey> hmm, how do you make "adb devices" show it?
<popey> its in about device, then tap the jellybean isnt it?
<BigRedS_> mungbean: oh. The tone of the comments made it sound like something rather more complex than that. Ta!
<ali1234> make sure to accept the key
<ali1234> tapping the versions enables developer mode which enables usb debugging etc
<Gary> oh balls, I need a second mako
<ali1234> a few of the versions unlock different things but i forgot which one does what
<ali1234> just keep tapping everything in that menu
<popey> hmm
<popey> doesn't seem to do it the same as on my nexus devices
<ali1234> well probably not
<ali1234> just wait for someone to make a custom firmware for it?
<Azelphur> Ended up buying that HP Microserver I mentioned yesterday :)
<ali1234> http://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/F2OfDQWwAuJGNtWh.huge
<ali1234> i bet J3 is a serial debug port
<Azelphur> by the time you add up the cashback, selling the internal HDD/RAM, it almost costs nothing
<popey> http://forums.ouya.tv/discussion/1380/recovery-mode
<popey> lengthy discussion about it
<ali1234> yeah confirmed
<ali1234> RX doesn't work? there will be an empty SMT pad nearby where you solder in a 0 ohm resistor
<popey> i haven't opened it up
<popey> interesting that most of the games that are at launch are made with the free version of unity, rather than the paid version
<ali1234> where can i buy one for bitcoins?
<popey> wonder if there is a correlation between that and the low quality of tha games
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> the games are low quality?
<ali1234> but can't you play any android game on it?
<ali1234> like GTA 3?
<popey> maybe, i see no way to install that
<popey> it has its own storefront, not play store
<popey> and the device doesn't "know" my google account
<ali1234> what is the deal with the free version of unity? what's the licensing on that?
<popey> most of the games seem modded for ouya, they mention ouya buttons or show a picture of the controller
<ali1234> or, why does anyone pay for it if there is a free verion?
<popey> there's more features in the pay one
<popey> there's a comparison on their site
<ali1234> i see
<popey> also, the free one shows a splash screen, which gives it away they used the free one
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> are these third party games then
<popey> yes
<popey> they're almost all limited
<popey> time limited or number of runs limited
<popey> so you have to pay to continue to play
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> but they're not very good anyway?
<popey> most, yeah
<popey> a few are fun
<popey> there's some usual ones like canabalt
<popey> ..which only lets you play 5 times
<dwatkins> I think I have that on pretty much every device I own.
<popey> ahh, 5 goes per day
<popey> it told me to upgrade or come back tomorrow
<dwatkins> does it do Netflix, Lovefilm or anything similar, though?
<popey> not yet
<popey> well, not figured out how yet
<dwatkins> well, if it officially does Netflix (which shouldn't be difficult, assuming Netflix allow this) that will be a major selling point
<mungbean> just tried that game
<mungbean> killed my eyes
<ali1234> that's the building jumping game right?
<mungbean> yes
<mungbean> its like we've gone back to 1984
<mungbean> with mars lander on acron electron
<ali1234> i had that game
<ali1234> it was really hard
<dwatkins> mungbean: I still have a working BBC Micro ;)
<dwatkins> (in fact, I have two, one's a B+)
<mgdm> \o/
<popey> i really like that game
<ali1234> ah, the starter pack
<mgdm> I know someone who had one with a dead motherboard, she was busy building a gizmo to convert the original keyboard to PS/2 so she could put an Atom board inside it
<mgdm> wonder if she finished it
<popey> although I have paid for it at least twice I think
<popey> so ruluctant to pay again on ouya
<ali1234> well sideload the HiB app then?
<dwatkins> I'm waiting for the DataCentre from RetroClinic to be available again so I can start using the B+
<dwatkins> http://www.retroclinic.com/acorn/datacentre/datacentre.htm
<mungbean> i have a acorn a3000 and electron somewhere
<popey> yeah, should do
<ali1234> you know what HiB reminds me of
<mungbean> MiB?
<mungbean> play it again sam?
<ali1234> you know when they used to send those book club leaflets to schools every few months
<mungbean> chip club
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ChX5s4Qy3Kw
<popey> pc games on ouya via remote control
<mgdm> ali1234: heh, yes
<ali1234> and the books rotated each time, but then they had the most popular old ones on the back
<ali1234> so if you missed it you could get it still
<ali1234> i got those type-in game books from that
<ali1234> never managed to type in the whole game
<mungbean> typed them in regularly from electron user
<mungbean> my sister reading and me typing
<ali1234> these were loooooong
<mungbean> the 6502 assembler ones were fun
<ali1234> and my nan never understood you have to read exactly what it says like capital letters and punctuation
<ali1234> lol
<mungbean> debugging typos took 2x longer than the first pass of typing
<mungbean> i never had them working perfectly
<mungbean> ok its drawn the grand prix circuit but where are the cars
<mungbean> i learned a lot about coding from that
<popey> i remember typing in something from a CPC magazine. It said there was a BASIC compiler inside the ROM and you just needed some machine code to bootstrap it, and make your BASIC run faster as machine code..
<popey> typed it all in, saved to tape, loaded it, ran it, it asked for a BASIC thing to compile, then spat out a binary on tape
<popey> took ages
<popey> then when you load the resulting machine code you get..
<popey> "APRIL FOOL!"
<mungbean> argh
<mungbean> april fools shold never be more than 10 lines
<dwatkins> lol
<mgdm> popey: hah! gits
<mungbean> i remember the acron user one was getting colour on your b/w TV
<popey> hah
<popey> sinclair user did one of them for the zx81 too
<mungbean> i was about 8, told my dad, he was sceptical
<mungbean> learned a lesson that day
<mungbean> typed it out, dad was right
<mgdm> popey: got a minute for a PM?
<ali1234> does anyone remember a children's book series about pirates?
<mungbean> hmm
<popey> mgdm: of course
<ali1234> there was probably about 20-30 books, each one fairly short, like 20 pages
<mgdm> popey: OK - 2 mins
<mungbean> not captain pugwash?
<ali1234> no.
<ali1234> and not the one where the kid enters a painting of a pirate ship
<mungbean> they had a lot of books, 32pages
<ali1234> this was a continuing story across all the books
<ali1234> each one ended on a cliff hanger
<popey> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ouya_software
<ali1234> but the catch is they were graded for reading level
<popey> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griffin_Pirate_Stories
<ali1234> YES
<popey> â»
<ali1234> that's it, nice one popey
<popey> My google skills are strong.
<ali1234> from the same person as roger red hat et al
<popey> https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=pirate+children+book+1980
<popey> â»
<ali1234> i suspected as much
<popey> pics on ebay
<popey> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/The-Stolen-Ship-Griffin-Pirate-Stories-1974-/390609437091?pt=Pre_School_Picture_Books&hash=item5af22301a3
<popey> that looks familiar
<ali1234> hmm i recognise the design of the title but not sure about that cover
<ali1234> "The Breaking of the Chain" that sounds *really* familiar
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raid_on_the_Medway ?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: we have lots of streets named after Michiel de Ruyter (who "broke the chain") ;)
<ali1234> nah this was a literal chain that the pirate had to break... with a magic knife iirc
<ali1234> but yeah obviously inspired by this event
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: this was also a literal chain, blocking the harbor
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: or the river, or whatever
<ali1234> this was a chain that had chained him to somehting... like a rock on an island where he was stranded after the mean pirates stole his ship or somehting
<MartijnVdS> ah
<ali1234> but hey this was like 25 years ago... i could be totally misremembering
<ali1234> "the griffin" also had a literal griffin in it ... on the cover even iirc
<ali1234> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Griffin-Pirate-Stories-Breaking-McCullagh/dp/0560005520
<ali1234> yup
<ali1234> oh wow, the pirate books with the silver pirate ship are also by the same person
<ali1234> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buccaneers_%28series%29
<ali1234> pretty much every book i ever read in infant and primary school was written by this person. crazy
<ali1234> http://thumbs2.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mucjCI7zx7ooUSHjjgCzQiw.jpg dat griffin...
<mungbean> bodes well for getting my colleagues to turn main lights off in here, as there's a couple of mac users
<mungbean> strip lighting + mac = glare
<mungbean> no lighting = relaxed mungbean
<dwatkins> I don't switch on the lights in the morning in the office, as it's much nicer when it's a bit dark
<shauno> I like doing that when I have early shifts.  letting sunrise happen on its own seems to hurt less than flooding the floor with fluorescent lights
<dwatkins> sunrise is currently at about 5am here, though
<shauno> heh, yeah, it doesn't work so well at the moment.  but it won't be long :/
<dwatkins> I wish I lived nearer the equator sometimes, but then I look out the window and see the hills around here.
<neuro> WHAT'S UP DUDES!
<mgdm> THE SKY
<dwatkins> Your capslock key certainly isn't ;)
<neuro> \O/
<neuro> it never really gets dark up here this time of year
<neuro> i was out at midnight last night and there was still a tinge of blue in the sky
<dwatkins> whereabouts are you, neuro?
<neuro> sky starts getting light at about 3-3:30am
<neuro> dwatkins: just NE of glasgow
<dwatkins> I'm in Edinburgh
<neuro> and it's proper daylight by 6ish
<neuro> dusk doesn't really start happening until about 10pmish
<dwatkins> most days I get woken by the sun at 5am
<dwatkins> yeah, it's still warm untii then, too
<neuro> my lounge and upstairs bedrooms are south facing
<neuro> so you can see the light through the curtains by about 4am
<neuro> well, i say south facing
<neuro> more like SE-facing
<neuro> and of course in six months it'll be equally mental
<dwatkins> I'm considering putting solar panels on my bedroom window, or next to it
<neuro> hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
<neuro> *breathe*
<neuro> hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
<neuro> solar panels
<neuro> in scotland
<neuro> you're a funny guy :)
<dwatkins> you've seen the weather we're having
<dwatkins> it's superb
<ali1234> it's raining here
<neuro> yeah, we get this for like maybe 10-20 days
<neuro> a year
<dwatkins> I don't need much power for my phone, anyway
<neuro> and in the winter when the sun is out, it's only out for about 15 minutes, then it smegs off again
<dwatkins> I reckon a 20 Watt panel will charge a battery that'll charge at least one phone, if not more.
<neuro> *rises* "oh hello everyone, blimey, bit parky today, innit, right, my work here is done, see you tomorrow" *sinks*
<neuro> scumbag solar body
<dwatkins> how dare it... oh wait, it's not the sun's fault
<neuro> it is, you know
<neuro> if it adjusted its gravitational field to permit our orbit to become perfectly circular ...
<neuro> and gave us a wee poke to stabilise our rotation ...
<neuro> mind you, if our rotational axis was straightened, in this country we'd be screwed
<dwatkins> ...most of the animals would be confused
<neuro> we'd end up getting charbroiled
<neuro> 18 URLs active,  7436 URLs queued, 160507 URLs checked, runtime 1 hour, 5 minutes
<neuro> 20 URLs active,  7447 URLs queued, 160612 URLs checked, runtime 1 hour, 5 minutes
<neuro> scumbag linkchecker, where the queued URLs just keep goin' up
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Network_Video_Interface_Forum
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: did you know about that one?
<MartijnVdS> a standard to talk to ip cams \o/ :)
<dwdorig> Ah, "Open" to anyone willing to shell out large sums of money.
<MartijnVdS> still
<MartijnVdS> multiple vendors using one standard beats having to implement each vendor's custom protocol
<dwdorig> Only if you're allowed to implement that one standard...
<MartijnVdS> you might have to reverse-engineer it, but (a) it's a web camera, how hard can it be (possibly h.264, too)
<MartijnVdS> (b) it's what we've been doing to talk to network cams forever
<MartijnVdS> dwdorig: also http://www.onvif.org/specs/DocMap-2.3.html
<MartijnVdS> dwdorig: spex!
<MartijnVdS> byzantine specs, but specs
<twager> Anyone know if an ISP can read mails in a clients maler
<twager> .........Mailer..
<Azelphur> twager: whoever owns the mailserver can, yes
<Azelphur> if you want safety, the only answer is PGP.
<diddledan_> or S/MIME
<diddledan_> the advantage of S/MIME is more clients support it
<diddledan_> and there's a hierarchy of certificate authorities
<Azelphur> S/MIME?
<diddledan_> the downside is there's a hierarchy of certificate authorities
<twager> Thanks for the info..
<diddledan_> Azelphur, S/MIME uses a certificate issued by verisign or some such
<Azelphur> I see
<diddledan_> so it's less peer-to-peer
<diddledan_> there have been extensions proposed for GPG-based S/MIME however, but I don't know whether that got standardised at all
<diddledan_> the main issue with pgp/gpg is that it still hasn't become widespread - most clients feature it as an optional extra often developed by a third party
<AlanBell> humans don't appear to want it
<AlanBell> Lotus Notes had a completely integrated public key infrastructure, pretty seamless and solid. Most common request was to ditch the private keys and just have username/password logon and if encryption and signatures were the price to pay then fine
<diddledan_> well fooey
<AlanBell> I still see people describing a .jpg scan of a signature pasted on to a document as being a "digital signature"
<diddledan_> well they're right twice, but still missing the point
<diddledan_> it's both a signature and digital
<diddledan_> but hardly a "digital signature"
<MartijnVdS> With the previous version of Outlook, people kept asking why I sent "empty emails"
<MartijnVdS> \o/ PGP/MIME
<diddledan_> joy
<MartijnVdS> diddledan_: I told them to fix their mail client, still sign my mail
<diddledan_> unfortunately I don't have that luxury - I have to deal with governmental types, so I have to not use gpg
<MartijnVdS> :(
<directhex> Crusader Kings 2 is half off this weekend. I'd be surprised if it's not 75% off for one day between now and monday, though
<directhex> it's a half off publisher sale, with game-specific 75% off 1-day sales
<MartijnVdS> what kind of game is it?
<directhex> i dunno, some strategy nonsense. that's pretty much all Paradox publishes
<diddledan_> is susan boyle still recording?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan_: probably, why?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan_: need a birthday present for an ex?
<diddledan_> (she just came on my randomiser)
<diddledan_> lol
<shauno> my roomba's stuck under my rack.  do I rescue it, or let it learn a lesson?
<MartijnVdS> shauno: yes.
<diddledan_> I really have too much rubbish on the floor to even consider an autonomous vacuum cleaner
<shauno> that was actually my motivation. lil dude's training me
<diddledan_> I have a path from here to the bathroom - that's all I need, right?
<shauno> it helps if you can answer the door before the pizza dude figures he's got the wrong address
<diddledan_> :-)
<diddledan_> pizza dude
<diddledan_> good idea
<diddledan_> :-p
<MartijnVdS> diddledan_: have you been featured on the "Hoarders" TV show? ;)
<diddledan_> MartijnVdS, not that I'm aware, but they could easily hide in here without me knowing :-p
<shauno> but if we do have any crazy inventors, I would suggest the next leap in autonomous housekeeping would be a robot that can track down cutlery and deliver them to the dishwasher
<diddledan_> the laundrobot would be awesome, too
<diddledan_> picks up random discarded clothing from wherever it landed
<shauno> havint rescued socks from the roomba, I'm not sure I'd be an early-adopter on that one
<diddledan_> lol
<mungbean> someone do me a favour, go to www.google.co.uk while signed in to google
<mungbean> type a word, e.g. arsenal
<mungbean> look at url
<mungbean> what's all that gubbins?
<AlanBell> mungbean: same as it does on maps now
<AlanBell> it updates the location to a url with all the information to retrieve the page you are on, bit odd
<mungbean> its much longer via the webpage
<mungbean> than via ctrl-k
<mungbean> #sugexp=crnk_timediscountb&gs_rn=17&gs_ri=psy-ab
<mungbean> etc
<brobostigon> /win 1
<mungbean> apparently a bearded lady is appearing on question time
<popey> it's always done that for me
<diddledan_> popey, the bearded lady?
<popey> google
<popey> url is always had guff in it
<mungbean> LOL
<mungbean> http://www.thatvideosite.com/v/9531/drunk-girl-ruins-wedding
<mungbean> you know whats gonna happen
<mungbean> but i still LOLled
<mungbean> ah,,,scrap that...it was fake
<mungbean> i'll never trust the internet again :(
<popey> directhex: is monogame used much in commercial games?
<directhex> popey, pretty much any XNA game nowadays is really using monogame.
<directhex> you can't publish xna games to the win8 app store, but you can publish monogame games, as an example
<directhex> also playstation vita/ps4 games
<dogmatic69> Anyone seen apps that show all text like blocks â¡â¡â¡â¡â¡â¡ (13.04)
<dogmatic69> I have mysql workbench doing this and could really do with it working properly :(
<daftykins> sounds like character set / locale issues
<dogmatic69> so far this is the only one I had a problem with
<dogmatic69> tried various versions
<dogmatic69> I don't know anything about locale settings being English and all :D
<dogmatic69> never used them
<dogmatic69> its only parts of it...
<dogmatic69> the important parts though.. menus are displaying ok
<daftykins> i don't know the program nor use desktop ubuntu sadly
<daftykins> it's a GUI program i take it?
<dogmatic69> yes
<dogmatic69> http://i.imgur.com/ChWfBiC.png
<dogmatic69> that is the problem
<dogmatic69> you can see the lower panel has the correct text, along with the pop up thing
<daftykins> wowzer!
<daftykins> perhaps it could even be a missing font
<daftykins> although weird that the program wouldn't be consistent
<dogmatic69> maybe. I did try change all the fonts in the config to helvetica or whatever
<daftykins> and that didn't change a thing - or?
<dogmatic69> did nothing
<daftykins> i take it helvetica is present? :D
<daftykins> was your 13.04 install an upgrade or clean?
<dogmatic69> clean
<daftykins> what happens if you open a terminal and run "locale | pastebinit" ?
<dogmatic69> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5785291/
<daftykins> alright well at least everythings in English XD
<dogmatic69> hehe
<daftykins> i wonder if it's worth running this sql workbench from a terminal to see if it gives away any errors?
<daftykins> though tbh it's probably fair to say i'm too inexperienced for this one and it might be worth just trying in the more active #ubuntu main channel
<dogmatic69> Fontconfig warning: "/etc/fonts/conf.d/50-user.conf", line 9: reading configurations from ~/.fonts.conf is deprecated.
<dogmatic69> interesting...?
<daftykins> does seem a bit, yeah
<dogmatic69> that line it references
<dogmatic69> <include ignore_missing="yes" deprecated="yes">~/.fonts.conf</include>
<daftykins> how did you install sql workbench?
<dogmatic69> apt-get install and download
<dogmatic69> various versions, all the same
<dogmatic69> it was working on 12.04 before I upgraded
<dogmatic69> ha
<dogmatic69> fixed it
<daftykins> mm?
<dogmatic69> this is the file of the error
<dogmatic69> http://bin.cakephp.org/view/182432270
<daftykins> ooh how handy
<dogmatic69> I bought the future forward a bit...
<daftykins> so you edited the path? or that's a replacement?
<dogmatic69> deleted below the comment
<dogmatic69> those two lines
<daftykins> ah
<dogmatic69> I wonder what else uses that stuff
<daftykins> hrmm, it might be handy if you could find someone to contact about that issue
<dogmatic69> ubuntu-bug ...
<daftykins> no idea ^_^
<dogmatic69> daftykins: thanks for pointing me in the right direction
<daftykins> my pleasure ^_^
<daftykins> not bad considering XD
#ubuntu-uk 2013-06-21
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning diplo
<MartijnVdS> hey, the G+ indicator changed!
<MartijnVdS> it's no longer a number but a little bell
<diplo> A few days ago I think
<MartijnVdS> diplo: it just happened for me. Yay gradual rollouts ;)
<diplo> I still don't understand that, why it takes so long to roll out but Iguess I've never played with an infrastructure that large
<MartijnVdS> diplo: if there's a bug, you don't want it to affect everyone at once (you want to be able to roll back :)
<MartijnVdS> diplo: so you do it over the course of several days
<MartijnVdS> while monitoring all kinds of statistics to see if it's actually working
<MartijnVdS> (improving click-throughs, etc.)
<popey> heh, i have a bell on one account, and not on the other
<popey> damn you google and your slow rolloutts
<popey> -t
<MartijnVdS> popey: maybe you logged in as the wrong Alan (Bell)
<MartijnVdS> (jpc)
<brobostigon> lol
<diplo> MartijnVdS: I understand a few days, theirs can take a lot longer though at times
<popey> morning btw
<brobostigon> morning his popey'ness.
<mungbean> realised that if i put salt on this chocolate eclair then i get in the red zone for all categories
<JamesTait> Good morning all, Happy Friday and Happy World Music Day! :)
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U1D100.pdf
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, very topical!
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: exactly :)
<ali1234> warning: delegating constructors only available with -std=c++11 or -std=gnu++11 [enabled by default]
<ali1234> what does ths mean?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: it means delegating constructors are a feature of the 2011 standard of C++
<ali1234> i know
<MartijnVdS> which is enabled by default
<ali1234> but what is a delagting constructor
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: http://www.stroustrup.com/C++11FAQ.html#delegating-ctor
<ali1234> oh i see
<ali1234> i'm surprsed it took until 2011 for something so obvious to be supported
<MartijnVdS> I'm surprised they haven't run out of ways to expand C++ yet
<ali1234> does anyone know how to expand the comments stream on sound cloud?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: click on the "comment count" number, on the right side of the song's page
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: under the waveform
<ali1234> ok and now how to sort them by track time?
<MartijnVdS> http://developers.soundcloud.com/ :)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<mgdm> C++ is 'orrible
<bigcalm> Has anybody here put CM onto their SGS3?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: I guess people must have.. but I don't know anyone who has
<bigcalm> I'm getting fed up of my phone freezing on me which causes me to reset the phone by taking the battery out
<mgdm> MS Office for the Mac is also 'orrible
<MartijnVdS> the Mac is also 'orrible
<shauno> heretics!
<mungbean> have a legit visio key but no media :(
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: you can download those from MS I guess
<mungbean> MS don't let you download do they?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: they will, if you register the key to your "Live" account
<mgdm> MartijnVdS: That's a matter of opinion, Office being 'orrible is a fact
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: true
<mungbean> top link is TPB so i guess no
<shauno> http://www.microsoft.com/office/downloads/  looks promising (for 2007 values of promising)
<mungbean> visio aint office, but nice try
<davmor2> Morning all
<mgdm> It's part of office, so it's a reasonable place to look
<mgdm> Hungarian notation is also 'orrible
<shauno> was curious if it'd break out the part you're entitled to when you feed it your key  (they chomp on your key before the d/l stage)
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: you can log in on office.microsoft.com I think, then add the product code to your account
<MartijnVdS> and THEN download the ISO you need
<MartijnVdS> or .ex
<MartijnVdS> e
<mungbean> i think they are for office apps, and visio is not part of office pro plus
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/products/download-back-up-restore-microsoft-office-products-FX103427465.aspx ?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: at the bottom, enter the 2007/2010 product key
<mungbean> visio was not part of office :(
<MartijnVdS> it was and is!
<MartijnVdS> (or: what happened when you tried? :)
<mungbean> trying now
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: the sidebar claims "Applies to: [lots of products, including Visio 2010]"
<mungbean> The Office 2007 Product Key provided is not recognized as an eligible product for free download. Please re-enter your Product Key and try again, or check the list of eligible products.
<MartijnVdS> ah it's 07
<MartijnVdS> no idea :(
<mungbean> my code was for 07
<mungbean> looks again
<MartijnVdS> \o/ free software
<ali1234> mungbean: you need MSDN subscription to download media
<mungbean> yeah, dreamspark etc
<mungbean> i could go and rummage in my old office but that will end in frustration
<ali1234> someone actually asked me to find office 2007 iso for them but i could not find a verifiable one
<directhex> which office 2007?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: I might have MS Works (for DOS!) on floppies around here somewhere
<directhex> pro? ultimate? home & student?
<ali1234> yeah i have that
<ali1234> i found it in a box the other day while cleaning out junk
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> We have around 100 Servers which are colocated. Any open source software to draw rack elevation diagram and populate it with all asset details viz IP, hard disk and memory sizes?
<diplo> There are I believe but all a bit ahem, not very good
 * diplo trying to remember names
<diplo> Visio is still much better at it :/
<ormiret> If you're looking for something visio like then possibly dia (though it is a bit primitive by comparison).
<mungbean> yeah, they all suck a bit
<diplo> Yep :/
<mungbean> cannot install 64 bit visio because 32bit office was oinstalled on your pc
<diplo> Sounds like you're having fun mungbean
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: mug for you: http://www.zazzle.com/say_raah_mugs-168783956030796784
<AlanBell> ooh I like the weather integration in Saucy unity
<AlanBell> err, whut, maybe I don't
<shauno> now that's what I call divisive
<MartijnVdS> shauno: left brain/right brain
<AlanBell> ah, it shows you the weather in "termoloi, italy" if you type term in the search box
<AlanBell> I thought itwas going to be 32 degrees tomorrow, which had me all excited
<popey> you running saucy?
<AlanBell> so you have to search for london to find weather here
<popey> or farnborough?
<AlanBell> yes, I got unity running on a spare laptop, my upgraded saucy laptop won't start unity properly
<MartijnVdS> oh I disabled on-line searches
<MartijnVdS> so no weather for me \o/
<MartijnVdS> I only use Alt+F2 anyway ;)
<popey> yeah, i have disabled all online stuff on mine
<ali1234> firefox has a bug where it just stops making connections
<MartijnVdS> fd leak?
<ali1234> requires a restart before it will load any web page
<AlanBell> 17 degrees tomorrow
<ali1234> that will be annoying for anyone trying to use webapps
<AlanBell> "weather in a city that sounds like the application you are trying to launch" is an interesting feature
<ali1234> AlanBell: well that could be more accurately summed up as "a load of irrelevant rubbish that you don't care about every time you try to do anything"
<ali1234> that way it covers gnome shell too
<Laney> unfortunately for me the weather comes below files, music and amazon results so I can't see it without scrolling
<AlanBell> well in theory the smart scopes should figure that out and eventually realise that nobody typing "weather" wants to scroll down to find the weather in weatherford, US
<ali1234> yeah, not gonna happen
<MartijnVdS> it's "smart scopes" though, not "SkyNet Scopes"
<Laney> I suspect it only learns when people click on stuff, not when they scroll down to look at it
<ali1234> basically the only way you could make the dash even slightly good is to give control of the entire thing to google and let them decide what should appear in it
<Laney> if I could get the server to never enable More suggestions for me I might leave that option on
<mungbean> synapse seems to get it right for me
<mungbean> local search , but has plugins
<ali1234> google gets it right about 40% of the time for me
<MartijnVdS> Google Now gets it right for me
<ali1234> everything else is so bad that i end up having to specifically modify queries just to get what i want
 * Laney is getting an "at800 filter" because of 4G
<MartijnVdS> Laney: why though?
<ali1234> because 4G interferes with DVB frequencies in the UK
<Laney> https://at800.tv/press-releases/at800-updates-estimate-of-likely-impact-of-4g-at-800-mhz-on-freeview/
<MartijnVdS> oh, they cleared those frequencies of DVB here
<mungbean> only some areas affected
<mungbean> allegedly
<ali1234> they only just cleared them *for* freeview here
<ali1234> the corporate branding on that site is awful
<ali1234> someone decided that the site needs to be clear
<ali1234> they have ensured that this is the case by using the phrase "let's be clear" every third sentence
<popey> heh
<AlanBell> what is a fast way of transferring lots of stuff over gigabit ethernet?
<AlanBell> 100GB or so of stuff between two laptops
<ali1234> tar | nc
<dogmatic69> not quite right http://i.imgur.com/zADSnKX.png
<dogmatic69> icon counter things are skew ^
<dogmatic69> left / right monitor
<mungbean> realised that pencil app is better than any dia, etc
<AlanBell> mungbean: yeah, but PNG export is a bit busted at the moment
<AlanBell> it drops a .svg in /tmp but fails to convert it to a raster png image
<AlanBell> I was debugging it the other day, but lost the will to live halfway through
<mungbean> AlanBell: http://askubuntu.com/questions/270836/pencil-export-page-as-png-does-not-work
<mungbean> easy fix
<mungbean> revert to 2.0.2
<mungbean> or manually use xulrunner
<AlanBell> that isn't a fix
<AlanBell> I was going to fix it
<mungbean> s/fix/workaround
<mungbean> ah ok
<mungbean> there's a few dupes for that bug, i wonder if it's been patched unofficlally
<AlanBell> I don't think so (I did look)
<mungbean> it's certainly easier than other alternatives to use, so you'd be doing a service to the community :D
<AlanBell> somewhere in /usr/share/pencil/content/pencil/common/svgRasterizer.js
<AlanBell> I think
<AlanBell> I couldn't figure out quite how to debug xul applications
<AlanBell> heh, going out on a limb here, but a hard coded export path of     var path = "/home/dgthanhan/Desktop/tmp.png"; might not help
<AlanBell> can't quite figure out where that gets used but line 164 of /usr/share/pencil/content/pencil/common/svgRasterizer.js looks very very wrong
<mungbean> png export has a black baground..weird
<AlanBell> oh, he commented out the wrong line
<AlanBell> lulz
<AlanBell>     //this.saveURI(dataURL, path); shoudl not be commented out
<mungbean> must have been drunk
<mungbean> doesn't fix the prob though
<AlanBell> nope, it doesn't
<mungbean> i have it working with v16 of xulrunner but not v22
<AlanBell> hmm, how would it work with xulrunner if that was the bug . . .
<AlanBell> must be going through some other codepath because that one can't work
<mungbean> androidSupports.js:    var output = "/home/dgthanhan/Desktop/foo.png";
<mungbean> has a habit of it
<AlanBell> heh
<mungbean> has anyone heard of xCAT?
<directhex> mungbean, ibm xcat?
<bigcalm> Feline species realignment?
<mungbean> yes directhex
<directhex> i used it around... 2005, i guess?
<directhex> on a cluster of dual pentium 3's running red hat 7
<mungbean> it appears to do mass deployment of VMs and nodes etc
<directhex> yes. although i expect it's changed a bit in 8 years
<mungbean> so what can't it do vs open/cloudstack?
<directhex> mungbean, in 2013? i have no idea. when i last used xcat, the cloud didn't exist
<directhex> hell, nobody was talking about "grid" yet either
<mungbean> allegedly it (now) stands for xtreme cloud admin toolkit
<mungbean> our workplace gets a lot of IP infringement emails to the security team
<mungbean> e.g someone downloaded star trek into darkness via BT
<aquarius> gnaaaah. Virtualisation makes no sense to me. Every guide in the world assumes that you know what you're doing :(
<mungbean> From: paramount@copyright-compliance.com
<dwdorig> aquarius, You don't *actually* do anything, you only *virtually* do things. I think that's the idea, anyway.
<aquarius> hahaha. Funny. :)
<dwdorig> aquarius, Indeed. I'll bet your virtually laughing.
<popey> aquarius: whats the goal?
<davmor2> aquarius: what's up dude
<dwdorig> popey, Thing with a net at the end of the pitch.
<aquarius> popey, run a downloaded IE8+WindowsXP OVA virtual machine with virt-manager (not VirtualBox).
<davmor2> dwdorig: a driving range?
<aquarius> popey, I'm not trying to do anything complex here ;)
<popey> uhm, okay
<popey> so kvm, right?
<popey> (i.e. kvm, not virtualbox)
<aquarius> this OVA file seems to be a tarball of an OVF file (a definition file for the VM) and a vmdk disk image. So I started virt-manager and told it to create a new VM and pointed it at the VMDK as the disk image, and... it says it's not bootable :(
<aquarius> yep, kvm.
<aquarius> well, I think so
<aquarius> I do not understand this stuff. Am I running kvm? qemu? qemu-kvm? I don't think I get it ;)
<popey> does kvm support vmdk these days?
<popey> (I don't think it can)
<aquarius> the internet seems to think that it can
<popey> ok, I bow to the Internet's superior knowledge
<aquarius> but I think maybe it is full of lies
<aquarius> and i need to convert it to this qcow thing
<popey> yes
<popey> and that is hassle
<aquarius> I am trying to avoid converting an 800MB vmdk file if I can avoid it, because I am really short of disk space ;)
<popey> use virtualbox then?
<popey> (which does support vmdk files)
<shauno> qemu-img is getting pretty good at vmdk, I don't believe kvm is natively
<aquarius> virtualbox just flat doesn't work :( It hangs the whole machine, or it won't boot the Windows VM except in safe mode and *then* hangs the whole machine.
<aquarius> that's what the previous two hours were about :)
<AlanBell> it can do vmdk, just not the multiple chopped up 2gb vmdk things
<mungbean> aquarius: just install vmware player
<AlanBell> because FAT
<mungbean> file -> open OVA
<mungbean> job done
<davmor2> aquarius: you could just install vmware viewer  it should be in the partners repo
<aquarius> orly?
<aquarius> I never thought of that
 * aquarius checks USC
<MartijnVdS> *sigh* neighbors who can't drive
<mungbean> also there's command line apps for it if you want to start them from CLI without a console running
<mungbean> so you can rdp into it instead
<aquarius> can't see vmware player in USC :(
<aquarius> there is a VMware View Open Client but that seems to not be it
<mungbean> nope
<popey> aquarius: out of interest where did you get virtualbox from?
<aquarius> popey, the repo.
<popey> right, the one from virtualbox.org may be better
<popey> (I use it daily)
<aquarius> I do not like installing things from random third parties which require compiling some sort of kernel module
<popey> it doesnt
<aquarius> becuase I don't understand wtf I am doing :(
<MartijnVdS> dkms does it for you, I guess
<popey> its a deb, you install, job done
<aquarius> virtualbox needs kernel modules for, like, everything
<popey> i found vmware on ubuntu to be pain
<popey> shush
<popey> its a deb
<popey> you install it
<MartijnVdS> kvm + virt-manager works fine though
<MartijnVdS> it's a bit bare-bones, but for dev work it's fine
<popey> kvm doesn't support vmdk MartijnVdS
<aquarius> MartijnVdS, well, that's what i planned to use, because it's all there in the repository. So: I have an OVA file. How do I use kvm+virt-manager to run it?
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://opentox.github.io/installation/2012/08/02/converting-ova-images-to-kvm/
<popey> thats convert, not open
<popey> read upwards
<MartijnVdS> popey: after conversion, you can open it
<popey> 14:35:32 < aquarius> I am trying to avoid converting an 800MB vmdk file if I can avoid it, because I am really short of disk space ;)
<MartijnVdS> ah, that above ;)
<MartijnVdS> not top of the web page
<shauno> everything converts ova, it's a tarball
<AlanBell> it *can* use vmdk, just not splitted vmdk
<aquarius> I will convert if I have to. However, as far as I can tell, qemu-img can convert vmdk files by itself. Which suggests that that page, MartijnVdS, is out of date. I mistrust out of date pages.
<AlanBell> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KVM/FAQ#Using_and_Converting_VMWare_Virtual_Disk_Files
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: good point
<aquarius> AlanBell, I used virt-manager to create a new VM, and told it to use the existing VMDK disk. When I then boot that VM, it says that the hard disk is an unbootable device.
<shauno> ova is an archive format, it's a tarball containing config files, vmdk, manifests, etc.  so unpacking it is going to demand disk space no matter what route you choose
<AlanBell> did you change the type to vmdk in the xml file?
<aquarius> AlanBell, I have no idea whether that's because I've done something wrong, or because whatever i'm doing doesn't read vmdks, or because this is a weird vmdk. And the documentation all assumes that you know what you're doing, hence original complaint.
<aquarius> AlanBell, er! no.
<aquarius> AlanBell, what xml file?
<aquarius> shauno, right, and I have unpacked it to a vmdk file and an ovf definition file.
<shauno> ah, gotcha
<AlanBell> xml file in /etc/libvirt/qemu aquarius
<aquarius> AlanBell, I saw that, but... it seems to be owned by root ;(
<AlanBell> erm, yeah, they will be
<aquarius> ahaha1
<aquarius> there is an advanced disk option in virt-manager!
<aquarius> which I have now used to set the type to vmdk. Victory.
 * aquarius watches machine start to boot.
<AlanBell> woot
<MartijnVdS> *\o/*
<aquarius> hrm.
<AlanBell> (that will change the xml file in /etc/libvirt/qemu)
<aquarius> now, it does a text boot for a bit, then you get a windows textual BSOD for a microsecond, and then it restarts :)
<aquarius> but this is progress!
<aquarius> perhaps the vmdk got screwed by my earlier attempts to use it in virtualbox. I'll unpack it again :)
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: are these the MSIE tryout images?
<AlanBell> sounds like the authentic windows experience
<aquarius> MartijnVdS, they are
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: is this a*
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: I've spend 2 days getting those to work in KVM, somehow Windows doesn't like the (virtual) hardware
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: Never got them to work though :(
<MartijnVdS> spent*
<aquarius> oh really?
<aquarius> hrm
<aquarius> I'll give it a brief try, then, and then I'll download virtualbox from the site as popey suggests.
<MartijnVdS> I *think* it's the disk controller driver
<popey> if you do that, remove all trace of virtualbox first
<aquarius> popey, I have tried to do so
<AlanBell> aquarius: there are an assortment of virtual graphics cards it can present, cirrus is the default bit vit-manager can do several others
<aquarius> which should I choose?
<AlanBell> no idea which is better/worse, but that is something I would tinker with if you are not getting a desktop
<MartijnVdS> try each one in turn
<aquarius> ok
 * aquarius tries with clean disk and cirrus
<aquarius> bsod.
<aquarius> :)
<dwdorig> aquarius, Always wondered how to get one of those on Linux. Now I know what virtualization is for.
<ali1234> the bluescreen probably isn't caused by the graphics card
<ali1234> it is more likely to be caused because you did/did not enable io-apic
<popey> yeah, windows should have drivers for the base cirrus stuff
<popey> its well old
<mungbean> purple screen on vmware i see a lot
<mungbean> gonna try and ask the bank about paying off my mortgage \o/
<aquarius> oh, brilliant. I changed the video card from cirrus to qxl (which also failed) and now I can't change it away again because virt-manager put a "ram" option in the xml and doesn't know how to take it away. Sigh.
<aquarius> AlanBell, um, what is an io-apic?
 * AlanBell directs aquarius to ali1234 :)
<ali1234> io-apic is a piece of hardware found on motherboards
<ali1234> it is something to do with plug and play
<popey> yeah, you do need that turned on.
<ali1234> in virtualbox you can enable or disable it
<aquarius> OK. This is a thing that I need to turn on in the virtual machine configuration?
<ali1234> yes
<aquarius> or a thing that I need to turn on on my actual computer?
<ali1234> or turn off if it is turned on
<popey> it needs to be on
<AlanBell> overview, machine settings
<AlanBell> in virt-manager
<aquarius> enable APIC is ticked.
<aquarius> have now tried booting with apic ticked and not ticked, and with all the different video cards, and I get the same thing: textual progress bar, followed by bsod, followed by automatic power cycle.
<aquarius> oh well. so much for kvm, then.
 * aquarius downloads virtualbox.
<ali1234> this is why nobody uses kvm
<MartijnVdS> lack of working apps?
<ali1234> no, because it is just impossible to make it work for anything other than an incredibly small number of specific set ups
<mungbean> :-|
<popey> or servers
<directhex> virtualbox has never worked right for me
<directhex> well, that's a lie. it worked as packaged as part of the webos sdk
<AlanBell> virtualbox on the desktop, kvm on the server for me
<directhex> but i've had every imaginable issue with virtualbox, right down to hand-editing /var/lib/dpkg/status to obliterate it from my system
<ali1234> i once tried to use kvm and it not only didn't work, it also made virtualbox not work
<directhex> aquarius, virt-manager is pretty dumb
<AlanBell> virt-manager is pretty good for remote management of VMs
<AlanBell> somewhat poor if it is local
<davmor2> ohhh update to torchlight means your character has a head still when he has a headgear on
<ali1234> lol they finally fixed that one eh?
<Laney> why is it poor?
<aquarius> directhex, yeah -- but ideally I wouldn't need smartness. I don't need clever things, I just want to run this existin vmdk of a Windows XP image in a window on my Ubuntu desktop. Now, I'm sure there's all sorts of clever things that *can* be done, and reasons why this is more complex than I would like it to be...
<popey> aquarius: http://popey.com/~alan/vm.png worked first time in virtualbox
<popey> aquarius: https://gist.github.com/magnetikonline/5274656 followed those steps
<aquarius> ali1234, er... I now have kvm installed. Is having that installed going to sod up virtualbox?
<mungbean> if you are a noob then vmware player is v friendly
<ali1234> yes, it will if you don't unload the kvm kernel module
<ali1234> although ironically it will only affect windows guests
<aquarius> ali1234, oh. Should I uninstalll kvm, then?
<ali1234> linux guests will run correctly in virtualbox whether kvm module is loaded or not
<popey> i would unload the module
<aquarius> popey, that's *really* useful. Thank you. not sure why I didn't find that in searching!
<popey> sudo rmmod kvm-intel
<popey> np
<ali1234> kvm-amd in my case
<ali1234> or something
<aquarius> popey, well, I should uninstall whatever package provides it, right? (I'm not using it, and I don't want to have to remember to rmmod it on every boot?)
<directhex> i use kvm for my desktop virtualization, since my experiences with virtualbox are dreadful and vmware doesn't support your kernel version ever
<directhex> plus, kvm works fine for me to run a company's it on it
<directhex> incl. windows
 * aquarius installs virtualbox
<popey> aquarius: sure, uninstall if you're not using it
<aquarius> yeaaah, and it starts
<aquarius> nice one popey. thank you :)
<popey> yay
<bigcalm> My SGS3 is freezing on me randomly several times a week. Do I take to t-mobile or put CyanogenMod on it?
<bigcalm> If I take it to t-mobile, I imagine that I'll have to pay them something and be without a phone for weeks if it goes off for repair
<aquarius> blimey XP is weird and annoying.
<mungbean> AlanBell: i also can't seem to do curvy lines in the 2.0.3 pencil
<mungbean> i also didn't realise you can use it for mockups
<mungbean> has gtk widgets etc
<directhex> xp is 11 years old at this point, i don't know why anyone would expect it to behave like a modern os
<popey> so is GNOME â»
<ali1234> i don't know why anyone would want it to behave like a modern OS. i mean, have you seen them?
<popey> comedy gold, he's here all week ladies and gentlemen
<scott_> bigcalm: mine was doing the same. I took it back to my provider (three) and they ""fixed"" it for free because it was in its two year warranty. First day it came back it crashed.
<scott_> When asked what was done, they said updated the software that was not available to us. To which i though "Bull!". Ive had Cyanogen on it since and its running fine.
<directhex> smartphones suck and the software is terrible
<mungbean> everyone's grumpy today cos of the weather
<MartijnVdS> nah directhex is always like that ;)
<mungbean> i thought that was ali1234
<directhex> ali1234 is differently grumpy
<Laney> he hasn't said anything about bees yet so it can't be that bad
<directhex> ali1234 pines for a byegone era, much like http://xkcd.com/1227/
<MartijnVdS> directhex & ali1234: the new Waldorf & Statler
<directhex> whereas i just think everything is terrible now, and was terrible before, and will likely be terrible in the future
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:StatlerAndWaldorf.jpg
<ali1234> y'know, just because it took from 1871 until now for letter writing to completely die doesn't mean every quote in that comic isn't absolutely correct
<DJones> Hmmh, twitter spam email, Do you know.....  Er, yes I do, I blocked them and reported them for spam some months ago
<daftykins> i keep getting automated phone calls on my mobile from 0845 and swansea numbers of late =/
<diplo> evening all
<daftykins> diplo: hi o/
<diplo> How's things daftykins ?
<daftykins> not bad ty sir
<daftykins> i've started getting all these small flying brown/black bugs in my house
<daftykins> no idea what they are
<diplo> Still working, or at home now ?
<daftykins> but other than that ok :>
<diplo> :(
<daftykins> i'm at home yep
<daftykins> how are thee?
<diplo> Not had many bugs luckily, and one big benefit since the wife left... I never have spiders anymore, we used to be overrun when she was here
<diplo> They followed her to her new house \o/
<daftykins> lmao
<daftykins> that's weird
<diplo> Not to bad thanks, just picked my kids up and they went straight out so thought i'd do some web work
<diplo> :)
<daftykins> sounds like a win win!
<daftykins> actually not requiring pick-up probably would've qualified as that
<diplo> Well would be nice to see them.. but if they're happy
<daftykins> :D
<diplo> I always seem to do drop off/pick up but it's not that bad
<diplo> Been playing with ISPConfig 3 today, it's not that bad tbh
<daftykins> how far is it from home to the schools?
<daftykins> ah yeah? i've got a BigV VPS from bytemark, their 'symbiosis' system is pretty neat for simple admin
<diplo> Ah yeah, was going to try that as well
<diplo> Will have to get some vm's set up to test other ones
<daftykins> :D
<diplo> Ah it's pick up from the ex's house at 5 after work, not school, only pick up/drop off to school monday and tuesday morning
<daftykins> ah right
<diplo> and about 1/4 mile from the house but 3 /12 miles from work
<diplo> Suppose I better find them actually, getting a little late now :D
<daftykins> i feel kinda proud of always getting myself to and from school cycling since primary school over the years
<daftykins> i'd want to force the same on any blighters i might have - perish the thought XD
<diplo> I'll let the boys walk in a year or so
<diplo> defo more dodgey now
<daftykins> ah
<daftykins> i still remember the funny things my parents would say to try and keep you away from harm as a youngster
<daftykins> in the local park 'don't go in the hedges back there, strange people are there that will hurt you'
<daftykins> mmk
<zleap> diplo, take em to basic self defence classes,
<diplo> zleap: Just about to sign eldest up to karate lessons, biggest issue is the ex... lazy :)
<diplo> So have to find something running when I have them to take them
<diplo> But self defence won't stop someone in a van picking up one of the boys, only 5 & 6
<directhex> as predicted, 75% off crusader kings 2
<popey> wossat
<zleap> diplo, i guess,  but isn't 5/6 kinda young for walking to school on their own anyway
<popey> yes
<diplo> I was replying to daftykins about walking to school since primary :)
<diplo> They don't walk anywhere on their own atm
<popey> although our kids school is miles away so that would be hard
<daftykins> he's easing them into society
<popey> well 3.3 miles
<diplo> They're allowed to play out the front, all the houses point in on grassed walkway on my estate so kids are fairly safe out the front
<diplo> It's why I moved here
<popey> ours play in the road
<daftykins> with the cars
<daftykins> Guernsey style, that :)
<daftykins> are there any log files worth looking in after a server's seized up? granted it'd be impressive for an OS to write about its' own failure before curling up into a ball, but i figured it worth asking :)
<diplo> syslog/kern.log are the only two I guess, grep -i error * ? :)
<diplo> Might have some noticed of something happening before it locks up
<daftykins> ty sir
<daftykins> Austrian guy reckons the weather's hotting up so who knows how he lost his 1U beastie :)
<diplo> :)
<diddledan_> WEEEE FRIDAY
<popey> +1
<popey> "Like"
<daftykins> -1 "Social Media"
<diddledan_> lol
<daftykins> i had to hop on facebook to message a friends sister about laptop fixing i was doing for her
<daftykins> saw my brother and his wife having a publicised domestic
<daftykins> i didn't know such things had gone multiplayer
<DJones> daftykins: Isn't that called IRC
<daftykins> if married types are on it i suppose, yes
<daftykins> right time to depart and get some things done i expect
<diplo> Not a great fan of social media, but I do like G+, more for news / info
<daftykins> i've not tried
<diddledan_> I like facebook for randomly useless memes
<MartijnVdS> diddledan_: you need more reddit in your life
<MartijnVdS> diddledan_: it's WAY better for useless memes ;)
<diddledan_> :-)
<diddledan_> I have never read reddit in earnest
<diddledan_> I've occasionally been there as a result of a search but quickly found dross and left
<MartijnVdS> it is full of rubbish
<MartijnVdS> but you can just disable the "subreddits" that suck the most
<zleap> i use g+ but gnu social looks interesting
<MartijnVdS> zleap: except nobody will ever use it
<zleap> well we are looking at setting up a gnu social page for the dclug mainly to play around but it could be useful
<MartijnVdS> ooh - http://googlesystem.blogspot.nl/2013/06/google-mine.html
<popey> that makes no sense to me â»
<popey> I need to read it 3 more times
<MartijnVdS> popey: Google is adding sharing of real-world things to G+ :)
 * DJones puts on his tinfoil hat and thinks its a way of google finding out what 'stuff' you have at home/to hand so they can target adverts based on non-web based information
 * AlanBell wonders if it works for chickens
<MartijnVdS> DJones: you mean like census data, what kind of people live in what areas etc.?
<MartijnVdS> DJones: "Oh you live in a rich neighborhood, better advertise expensive things"
<MartijnVdS> "Poor neighborhood? Lots of loans!"
<DJones> MartijnVdS: That probably sounds believable
<MartijnVdS> DJones: "Ooh lots of families with young/newborn children in your area. *ad for diapers*"
<brobostigon> or if you live in bachelor towers it advertises other kinds of stuff.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: "single women in your area"?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yeah, that kind of thing.
<DJones> MartijnVdS: I thought they were advertised on business cards in phone boxes
<MartijnVdS> DJones: sure but if you live in an area full of potential clients.. why not have google advertise?
<MartijnVdS> DJones: who uses phone boxes!
<DJones> I was just trying to think where my nearest phone box is... And can't think of any
<MartijnVdS> Cornwall is full of them
<MartijnVdS> every town has one
<brobostigon> concept, now that would be an interesting google glass app, "google glass, launch gooogle plus dating app please."
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: the real-world sharing bit isn't out yet
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yes, but some ideas, like that at a singles party, or a speed dating party, could be interesting.
<brobostigon> copyright brobostigon, 2013.
<mungbean> AlanBell: happened to notice there is a 2.0.4 version of pencil
<mungbean> just no deb for it.
<mungbean> might have those bugs fixed
<AlanBell> interesting
<mungbean> i think fedora has it OOTB
<mungbean> have a baby in one hand so let me know if u try it :D
 * AlanBell is baby free
<mungbean> i'm preferring to visio atm
<mungbean> if only the page creation was a bit easier, but it has nice features like fit to diagram+padding
<diplo> Never tried it, will have to take a look
<mungbean> has features for mockups too
<mungbean> like balsamiq
<diplo> Installing now
<mungbean> version?
<diplo> 2.03 from the website
<mungbean> beware of the png export bug
<mungbean> haven't got enough hands free to look at whats involved wuth installing from the 2.0.4,tar,gz
<diplo> heh, something just locked the laptop right up, had to unity --reset
<diplo> :P
<diplo> Hmm, still not right I don't think
 * diplo gets work laptop out 
<mungbean> about to blow away a win8 laptop - will win7 installer ask me about keeping original partitions?
<mungbean> i.e the factory reset one
<directhex> mungbean, yes.
<diplo> You can go through disk partitions with win7
<diplo> Need to click a link first though
<diplo> From memory
<directhex> mungbean, when you load the installer, you can do an upgrade or a custom. it will likely grey out the upgrade option in this instance since it's a downgrade
<directhex> then it'll ask you which partition to install onto, allowing you to delete existing ones and create new ones
<mungbean> sweet ,ta
<mungbean> dont have win8 disk so in trouble if the drivers on win7 dont work
<directhex> yeah, annoying that you can't just download a win8 iso easily
<directhex> win7 isos are downloadable by all
<directhex> fwiw, MSDN win8 media works with OEM keys
<mungbean> there's a win8 iso at work but i'd have to wait
<mungbean> and its a full on fail either way :D
<mungbean> shame cos mother in law only uses for gmail and openoffice, but not really my place to offer ubuntu
<mungbean> this laptop is massive
<mungbean> 17inch+
<mungbean> first time looking at win8,within 1 sec i accidentally moved a tile somwhere
<diplo> :P
<mungbean> help me out guys - how to get to desktop?
<mungbean> ah, win-D
<diplo> aobut to say, not tried it but it used to be win-d
<mungbean> no start menu tho
<zleap> there is in 8.1 aparently
<mungbean> touchpad clicks seem unrepsonsive
<mungbean> weird
<mungbean> this is hideous
<mungbean> its going
<mungbean> in the bin
<directhex> start menu you press the windows key, or move the cursor to the bottom-left corner and left click
<directhex> there's no start *button*, but there is a start menu
<mungbean> directhex: brings the tile display up
<mungbean> no way to actually run notepad
<mungbean> ok, started tpying blindly
<mungbean> pops up with a thing
<directhex> mungbean, typeahead find exists in the start screen
<mungbean> yep, was expecting a launcher, but just type
<mungbean> even gnome3 is better than this tripe
<directhex> well, if you want to get technical, you can get the full apps list without typing by bringing up the start screen, then clicking on the search charm
<mungbean> have two pages of complaints about this
<mungbean> gmail not working in firefox, etc ,etc
<mungbean> seems to work but she's probably not doing what i'm doing (win-D run firefox)
<mungbean> no reboot button..
<mungbean> gonna stop making obvious observations now...
<mungbean> except that the win7 installer has hung :(
<mungbean> http://imgur.com/a8jVy02
<mungbean> could be a bad dvd/iso..
<diddledan_> mungbean, methinks you're doing it wrong
<diddledan_> here: www.ubuntu.com/download
<diddledan_> :-p
<diddledan_> </troll>
<mungbean> definitely agree
<mungbean> hate windows with passion
<mungbean> HA!
<mungbean> "I ran into the same problem with a Toshiba laptop that had Windows 8 on it. I had to change a setting in the BIOS under Boot Mode from UEFI Boot to CSM Boot. As soon as I did this, I could boot from any of my CD/DVDs and USB devices.
<mungbean> "
<mungbean> btw ubuntu would have been same
<diddledan_> ubuntu supports uefi boot
<mungbean> "Wouldn't boot off the USB, wouldn't boot Ubuntu with the cd.
<diddledan_> windows 7 _should_ support it
<mungbean> Was going to try and format the drive with Linux but couldn't get it to boot."
<mungbean> tosh hobbled it
<diddledan_> hmm
<diddledan_> sounds like my half-assed BIOS from gigabyte - hybrid-efi my arse!
<mungbean> gonna tackle this tomorrow
<mungbean> too hot and sweaty for windows
<diddledan_> sexytime with a hot sweaty ubuntu?
<diddledan_> ooh yeah baby!
<diddledan_> uuuu .... buuuuuun .... TUUUUU :-p
<mungbean> gonna create a forum account to thank that internet stranger
<diddledan_> must have been an awesome post :-p
<dogmatic69> oh man, what has happened to rhythm box in 13.04?
<dogmatic69> Tried playing music on my NAS and now my HDD is full :/
<dogmatic69> though it was strange it was taking long to load the songs, in 12.04 it took around 30 seconds to load 8k songs
<dogmatic69> now it literally imports them
#ubuntu-uk 2013-06-22
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<AlanBell> morning
<AlanBell> ooh, I am using llvmpipe :(
<AlanBell> that will be my CPU useage problem then
<AlanBell> [ 99452.162] (EE) Failed to load /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/intel_drv.so: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/intel_drv.so: undefined symbol: xorgMir
<AlanBell> Mir. hmm.
<mungbean> no drivers on this windows machine work OOTB
<AlanBell> yeah, that is the thing about windows, nobody sees the hardware enablement and driver problem so they think it doesn't exist in Windows
<AlanBell> Ubuntu is massively better at just working
<mungbean> yeah, most def does
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: is that saucy?
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: yeah
<AlanBell> and possibly ppa of mir stuff that I thought I had removed
<mungbean> if you aren't getting vendor support for your windows machine, you're screwed
<MartijnVdS> So.. X apps won't work anymore?
<AlanBell> X works fine (because it isn't using the intel hardware driver)
<MartijnVdS> so it's slow?
<AlanBell> just a bit sluggish and high CPU/battery use
<AlanBell> and I get hot fingers
<MartijnVdS> objdump -x /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/intel_drv.so | grep -i mir
<MartijnVdS> nothing found
<MartijnVdS> it's your PPA :)
<AlanBell> returns nothing for me
<MartijnVdS> hmm
<AlanBell> Mir
<MartijnVdS> strings ?
<MartijnVdS> grep -i == case-insensitive
<MartijnVdS> strings /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/intel_drv.so | grep -i mir
<AlanBell> yeah, just spotted that, still returns nothing
<MartijnVdS> hmm..
<AlanBell> strings  /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/intel_drv.so | grep -i Mir
<AlanBell> that returns stuff, 10 lines or so
<Laney> stuck on a train at grantham station
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5789187/
<jacobw> Grantham isn't the place to be
<jacobw> What's going on with Mir?
<Laney> indeed
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I have 2:2.21.9-0ubuntu2
<AlanBell> xserver-xorg-video-intel 2:2.21.9-0ubuntu2+xmir5862~saucy1
<MartijnVdS> so anyway
<MartijnVdS> Mir runs on top of X now?
<MartijnVdS> I thought it was supposed to *replace* i?
<MartijnVdS> t
<mungbean> ahhh ninite ftw
<AlanBell> I have no clue
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: for Windows, yes!
<AlanBell> I think it is more X running on top of Mir
<MartijnVdS> as long as everything is accelerated
<MartijnVdS> and steam keeps working
<Laney> the passengers are turning
<Laney> we've been here for 25 minutes already
<MartijnVdS> Laney: ?
<MartijnVdS> ah.. train
<Laney> aye
<AlanBell> yay \o/ I have a fast cool desktop
<AlanBell> and low CPU in both unity and gnome-shell
<AlanBell> and cooler fingers \o/
<brobostigon> :)
<MartijnVdS> *\o/* *\o/* *\o/* *\o/* *\o/*
<DJones> Heh, just watching the Lions v Australia prematch comments, the ususual crowd of well known sportspeople etc wishing them good luck, as far as I remember, only one of them said their name before wishing them good luck, Hi, I'm David Beckham and I'd like to wish the lions good luck.
<MartijnVdS> DJones: have to promote your brand, man!
<DJones> Why the need to to tell people who he is?
<DJones> MartijnVdS: He has a brand?
<MartijnVdS> DJones: lots of things are sold with his name on it
<MartijnVdS> DJones: sports goods, perfumes, etc.
<AlanBell> hmm, well of all the things that make me think Beckham is a bit of a prat, that comes fairly low on the list :)
<DJones> MartijnVdS: I guess it teaches people what products to avoid then
<DJones> AlanBell: Yeah, but the list of things that make people think he's a prat is very long
<AlanBell> unity is looking pretty nice in saucy at the moment (now that it runs fast)
<jacobw> Hi, I'm David Beckham and I approve of this commerical
<jacobw> AlanBell: Is that with Mir?
<jacobw> I'm considering testing Saucy and F19 today
<AlanBell> no, not with mir
<AlanBell> top bar shadow disappears when you zoom in \o/
<AlanBell> which is considerably better than getting detached and wandering down the screen
<funkyHat> haha
<jacobw> That bug has been around in 12.04 at least
<AlanBell> I still want the top bar to match the launcher and dash with chamelion colours
<AlanBell> and menus and indicators
<MartijnVdS> it's now harder to disable the global menu
<MartijnVdS> :(
<AlanBell> I am a bit disappointed that there are not innovative menu renderings
<MartijnVdS> I've also disabled the dash, because it hurts my brain
<AlanBell> I thought that getting everything to publish menus through one api would mean that we would have circular right click menus and voice control and touch enhanced menu thingies
<MartijnVdS> uh not the dash
<MartijnVdS> the HUD
<AlanBell> which might happen on the phone at some point
<AlanBell> ah, lets test the hud bug #1
<lubotu3> bug 1 in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<MartijnVdS> ?
 * AlanBell starts virtualbox . . .
<AlanBell> :( single press of alt or super when in a guest gets trapped by the host still
<jacobw> MartijnVdS: It only affects Malaysia now
<MartijnVdS> sure but what is "hud bug 1"
<lubotu3> bug 1 in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<MartijnVdS> ...
<AlanBell> I think the first bug of hud is that it steals alt from VMs
<mungbean> i forgot the HUD existed
<czajkowski> Myrtti: you about ?
<AlanBell> I really like the HUD for web applications
<christel> she may still be in tallin
<AlanBell> well actually I would like full dbusmenu integration for web applications
<czajkowski> christel: oh you're here also
<christel> she went off for some midsummer celebrations, im not sure if she has returneth yet or whether she is still partying it up in estonia :)
<Myrtti> czajkowski: intermittently, I'm on a boat
<czajkowski> Myrtti: tis ok will poke christel
<czajkowski> was re freenode :)
<Myrtti> can still see the coast
<czajkowski> nice
<Myrtti> christel: puss och kram
<christel> PUSS OCH KRAM! \o/
<mungbean> touchpad driver for windows...guess how many MB
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: 25
<mungbean> 98
<MartijnVdS> w.. t.. f..
<mungbean> i dunno whats in it
<mungbean> i just want scroll area
<MartijnVdS> the largest Xorg input driver is 100k
<MartijnVdS> add in the configuration panel is 30k
<MooDoo> hello all
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<bigcalm> Good afternoon peeps :)
<alistair> can i get help here regarding a wifi issue? thanks
<AlanBell> what is the problem?
<ali1234> à² _à² 
<AlanBell> heh, I am guessing a very short lived connection :)
<MooDoo> lol
<bigcalm> Maybe it's the issue that caused the client to quit
<popey> pIP PIP!
<popey> WELL THIS IS ODD
<popey> bah
<popey> turn caps lock on, on laptop, plug into docking station, internal and external keyboard now out of sync
<ali1234> yeah this is one of the many reasons people hate X11 and want to replace it
<pr0ph3t> ubuntu embarassing moments: you're showing off your ubuntu box to your mates. You go into the lock screen and the showoff is over, it looks horrible!
<ali1234> what do you mean?
<pr0ph3t> someone suggested I should not use it, but I do so
<ali1234> what is wrong with the lock screen?
<pr0ph3t> ugly and not customisable
<ali1234> well you can blame gnome for the latter part of that
<ali1234> i think it looks ok though
<popey> the lock screen?
<ali1234> i mean what do you want it to look like?
<popey> the grey box asking for your password?
<AlanBell> with your wallpaper in the background?
<popey> ya
<pr0ph3t> yes popey, more like the gnome-shell one for instance ali1234
<pr0ph3t> AlanBell: the wallpaper is there at least! :-)
<ali1234> for me it looks exactly like the gnome shell one?
<popey> i didnt realise there was a difference
<ali1234> even down to the bar at the top which looks exactly like it's from gnome shell
<pr0ph3t> gnome-shell uses a dsark grey background with a cool design and to unlock the screen you have to pull-up the window from the bottom (for touch devices I guess, but works with pointer too)
<ali1234> ugh that thing
<ali1234> i forgot about that
<popey> not seen that
<pr0ph3t> I'm not saying it should be like that necessarily
<pr0ph3t> but a grey box with a white line across?
<AlanBell> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBmZeZTb5tQ
<ali1234> i assume by "white line" you mean the place where you type in the password?
<pr0ph3t> ali1234: exactly
<ali1234> failure to follow the system theme for text input boxes should be a capital offense
<pr0ph3t> indeed
<pr0ph3t> to use the one on AlanBell's link you'd have to install gnome-shell and gdm and lots of other stuff you never use, just so the lockscreen is different
<ali1234> probably just gdm actually
<pr0ph3t> ali1234: I tried some time ago and you do need gnome-shell at the very least
<pr0ph3t> for the thing to look like on the video
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/screenshots/lock.jpg is what yours looks like right?
<pr0ph3t> yes AlanBell
<AlanBell> I imagine it will stay like that until the phone swirly thing arrives with Mir
<Laney> yeah we just use gnome-screensaver for that
<pr0ph3t> fair, I'm on 13.10, so I'm looking forward to trying Mir
<AlanBell> Laney: for the current one? not the phone thing?
<Laney> right
<Laney> unity 8 Changes Everythingâ¢
<AlanBell> again \o/
<pr0ph3t> eeheh
<Laney> well, I'm not actually sure that it does this particular thing but I assume so
<popey> s/unity/lightdm/
<AlanBell> the swirly thing is lightdm?
<pr0ph3t> AlanBell: it might be something different altogether
<pr0ph3t> utouchdm or similar
<pr0ph3t> touchscreen changes everything tm
<AlanBell> still waiting for my cheap high resolution ARM powered touchscreen laptop
<pr0ph3t> it'll be sometime before I get a touchscreen device I think. Apart from my gnote II that is. Can't wait to try utouch on it!
 * popey looks around at all the touchscreen devices
<popey> not sure I'll get a touch laptop anytime soon
<MartijnVdS> even if I'm getting one, I doubt I'll be using the touch bit
<MartijnVdS> I like my screen to be clean
<pr0ph3t> popey it looks like they'll all be touch screen soon enough
<MooDoo> I think I'll stick with a non touch laptop, can't see me ever using a touch one.
<pr0ph3t> MooDoo: what if it is a laptop that becomes a tablet if you detach the screen
<AlanBell> I would be quite tempted by a Nexus 10 plus keyboard if it ran Ubuntu
<MooDoo> pr0ph3t: i wouldn't buy one like that.
<AlanBell> chromebook pixel looks nice but is Â£Â£Â£
<pr0ph3t> AlanBell: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install
<AlanBell> yeah, Ubuntu Desktop though
<pr0ph3t> MooDoo: ok, but they are coming up with so many different solutions that eventually you'll find one to suit you, and it will likely be a touch device
<MooDoo> pr0ph3t: we'll have to see :D
<pr0ph3t> AlanBell: I quite like what I'v
<AlanBell> at some point I suspect that the Nexus 10 will run normal applications, but that probably requires the gtk/Mir integration
<pr0ph3t> *what I've seen of ubuntu touch so far
<AlanBell> and I am not entirely convinced that is going to happen, Gnome don't want it, Canonical don't need it if core apps are QML
<AlanBell> should work via xmir though
<pr0ph3t> as anyone tried Mir and Unity 8? Are they even available at the moment? I have seen a video of a guy trying them, but I think it was only a demo
<AlanBell> there is a weekly status report https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2013-June/037377.html
<AlanBell> I tried it when it was announced, it didn't do much
<AlanBell> as far as I know it isn't in use on the phone platform yet
<ali1234> soooooooooo
<ali1234> has anyone ever tried to use SDL2 GameController API with steam big picture on linux?
<ali1234> it looks like it would make my life about 10 million times easier, if it actually works that is
<ali1234> sam lantinga says "The easiest way to do this is to run Steam and configure the controller  in Big Picture and then poke around the config files to find the  configuration string and add it to SDL. "
<ali1234> does anyone have any idea what he's talking about?
<pr0ph3t> ali1234: I do not play games that need a controller unfortunately, I only ever use mouse and keyboard
<pr0ph3t> although the belkin/razer nostromo is tempting and I might buy it one day
<ali1234> well i found the joystick config pages so thats something
<ali1234> in big picture mode
<ali1234> no idea how to add it to SDL though
<ali1234> pr0ph3t: how do you play arcade games?
<pr0ph3t> ali1234: I never do, I'm into rpg/mmo games
<pr0ph3t> hence the nostromo
<pr0ph3t> do you reckon BitchX will become popular again?
<pr0ph3t> since they restarted development I mean and dealing with the security issues
<ali1234> hmm SDL reads this gamecontroller stuff from an environment variable... which is nice
<ali1234> i wonder if it supports multiple joysticks at the same time though
<mungbean> is there anything dodgy about an amazon seller selling an old wii game for 43p+Â£2p&p?
<mgdm> I can't think what it'd be
<Azelphur> in bash, if I run a command like "sudo top", will $! be the PID of top, or the PID of sudo?
<mgdm> sudo
<Azelphur> ah, how do I make it get the pid of top instead?
<mgdm> All I can think of would be pgrep
<Azelphur> fun
<mgdm> though I wonder if there's a way to get sudo to output that somehow
<mgdm>        Upon successful execution of a program, the exit status from sudo will simply be the
<mgdm>        exit status of the program that was executed.
<mgdm> ooops
<mgdm> irrelevant paste \o/
<mgdm> Azelphur: Apparently, $! will be the PID of sudo, and you can feed that to 'ps --ppid' to find out about its children?
<Azelphur> fun
<ali1234> cool i have multiple joypad support working
<ali1234> hmm with SDL 2.0 it should be really easy to make rumble work
<penguin42> anyone else use Npower - they've sent me a letter saying they're having problems and can't send me a bill at the moment
<pr0ph3t> unformat: myth or reality?
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: in DOS? that sometimes worked, if you quickformatted the floppy disk
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS: unfortunately I might need it now, in Ubuntu, after 2 formats though I think the stuff is long gone
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: you can sometimes rescue files with photorec
<penguin42> pr0ph3t: It depends what you meant by 'format'
<penguin42> pr0ph3t: If you just nuked the partition table it's probably rescuable, if you did something more then - well.... it depends
<pr0ph3t> thank you MartijnVdS. penguin42 I used gparted to rewrite the partition table joining several other partitions first. Then after a few weeks I rewrote the partition table from scratch and created one ext4 and one swap partition
<MartijnVdS> mkfs is the breaker
<MartijnVdS> also mkswap
<penguin42> yeh that's likely to have nuked it
<MartijnVdS> but it shuold be possible to recover some of the data
<MartijnVdS> (the bits that aren't in the same spot as superblocks)
<penguin42> pr0ph3t: It depends on your new/old partition layouts - if you can find the old partition layout (there are some tools) then you might have enough left of the superblock to rescue stuff - but it's much less likely after making an fs on top
<MartijnVdS> heh: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1Zc1rsGFJI
<pr0ph3t> he old partition layout was a mess
<MartijnVdS> (SFW)
<penguin42> pr0ph3t: Possibly good :-)
<penguin42> pr0ph3t: There's some things that search the entire disk for superblocks of filesystems
<pr0ph3t> sounds promising then
<pr0ph3t> penguin42: do you know where I could start? As in what program
<penguin42> pr0ph3t: 'testdisk' sounds promising - not tried it
<mgdm> testdisk is great, though I'm not sure if it can do the superblock thing
<penguin42> pr0ph3t: http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk_Step_By_Step
<penguin42> pr0ph3t: seems to be in the repo
<pr0ph3t> penguin42, mgdm, MartijnVdS thank you!
<Azelphur> Hmm, did a ubuntu update and now my bumblebee has broken, any ideas?
<Azelphur> I did replace the old config files, but I thought they don't have to be changed from the defaults
<Azelphur> I get odd behaviour, if I run an application using primusrun, I get a black screen which goes away if I switch tty, but gl apps crash
<marsilainen> hi all; just installed 13.04 ubuntu-gnome onto my machine (clean install, had previously been running 12.04) and for some reason my keyboard is mapped wrongly
<marsilainen> it auto-detected UK keyboard during install (and that's what it is set to in the settings) but the keys are all mapped as though it's a US keyboard
<marsilainen> not sure what to try?
<marsilainen> my keyboard worked fine with12.04
<marsilainen> keyboard is Logitech K520
<marsilainen> hmm, if I switch to a text console (Ctrl+Alt+F1) then the keys are mapped correctly there
<marsilainen> so maybe this is a gnome-shell problem?
<marsilainen> keys are mapped wrongly gnome-shell login as well as when logged in
<penguin42> I guess it might be the x mapping, that's pretty separate from the console mapping
<marsilainen> yeah
<marsilainen> any idea how to check/debug ?
<penguin42> hmm
<marsilainen> in Xorg.0.log I see some lines like:
<marsilainen> [    19.986] (II) XINPUT: Adding extended input device "Logitech USB Receiver" (type: KEYBOARD, id 13)
<marsilainen> [    19.986] (**) Option "xkb_rules" "evdev"
<marsilainen> [    19.986] (**) Option "xkb_model" "pc105"
<marsilainen> [    19.986] (**) Option "xkb_layout" "gb"
<marsilainen> which sounds reasonable...
<MartijnVdS> marsilainen: sure, but what is it set like in your session?
<penguin42> I assume some part of Gnome has decided you wanted to select something else
<marsilainen> MartijnVdS, how can I tell?
<MartijnVdS> marsilainen: go to the keyboard preferences screen?
<marsilainen> it's set to UK in there
<marsilainen> it's the only keyboard layout listed
<marsilainen> and clicking on it to show the keyboard diagram shows a normal UK layout
<penguin42> marsilainen: What happens in the guest session?
<marsilainen> I'm not sure, but I would imagine it will be the same, since it is like this even at the gdm login screen
<marsilainen> if I type @ in the username field I get " instead
<penguin42> I think I'd try another desktop environment and see if it followed it
<marsilainen> sure...
<marsilainen> I only have gnome-shell installed at the moment
<marsilainen> I guess I could install unity and try that
<marsilainen> how do I install unity from ubuntu-gnome?
<marsilainen> apt-get install unity ?
<penguin42> I think probably install ubuntu-desktop
<marsilainen> ok, will try that
<marsilainen> it definitely seems to be an X thing - if I run "setxkbmap gb" then it all starts working fine
<penguin42> yeh it sounds like the gnome gui or something around it that should set  it but isn't
<marsilainen> I think this might be it: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Gdm#GDM_always_uses_default_US-keyboard
<penguin42> yeh but that looks more like a fudge around it
<penguin42> are you using lightdm or gdm?
<marsilainen> gdm
<marsilainen> on ubuntu 13.04 I don't have /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d that it talks about there
 * penguin42 would have expected gdm to work with gnome
<marsilainen> is it somewhere else on Ubuntu?
<penguin42> marsilainen: /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d
<penguin42> marsilainen: But I'd look to see if you can fix it from gnome rather than hacking that
<marsilainen> ah, thanks
<marsilainen> sure
<marsilainen> my googling hasn't turned up much yet
<marsilainen> I'm going to give this a try for now at least
<marsilainen> brb
<marsilainen> ah well, that didn't work anyway...
<ali1234> bug report it
<penguin42> nod
<marsilainen> if I login to unity it is the same problem
<penguin42> what if you swap to lightdm?
<marsilainen> but now I've switched the login to lightdm instead of gdm
<marsilainen> and that seems to work
<marsilainen> for gnome-shell too
<penguin42> :-)
<marsilainen> so it seems to be a gdm issue
<marsilainen> I'll just use lightdm for now...
<marsilainen> thanks for the help
<penguin42> possibly bug 546785 (heck that's old)
<lubotu3> bug 546785 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "Changing keyboard layout in control-center should update default gdm layout in .dmrc" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/546785
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
<penguin42> hey BC
<mgdm> 'lo bigcalm
<bigcalm> Hi kids :)
<bigcalm> What's happening this evening?
<bigcalm> mgdm: are you talking at phpnw13?
<mgdm> bigcalm: no
<mgdm> bigcalm: leaving that line alone for a bit while I pursue other things :-)
<bigcalm> Still attending though?
<mgdm> maybe
<mgdm> I want to, just not sure if I can yet
<bigcalm> Ah
<bigcalm> Work has bought me a blind bird ticket. Will leave getting a hotel for a few months
<penguin42> a what?
<bigcalm> I want to attend oggcamp, but it's the weekend before my wedding. Might be a struggle
<bigcalm> penguin42: heard of early bird?
<mgdm> penguin42: blind bird is a very cheap ticket which you can get before the schedule is announced
<mgdm> it's like a really early early bird
<penguin42> ah I see
<bigcalm> Though at 95 quid, is that's _very_ cheap?
<mgdm> for a conferece of that calibre, yes
<bigcalm> Fair enough :)
<popey> evening all
<mgdm> Hi popey
<christel> bigcalm: sok, just move the wedding!
<bigcalm> christel: why didn't I think of that :)
<christel> that would be handy since you banned me from attending, move it to a better date for me/oggcamp!
<bigcalm> Hi popey
<christel> :D
<bigcalm> :O
<christel> hayley wont mind :D
<bigcalm> Didn't ban you
<bigcalm> :P
<christel> you so did!
 * bigcalm tuts
 * christel tickles bigcalm 
<popey> ban her!
<bigcalm> Heh
 * bigcalm tickles christel with puppies
<christel> nah, i'll let you get away with it, i guess you picked your wedding date before i "picked" my due date, etc. it was very inconsiderate of me! :P
<AlanBell> bigcalm: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01n8ltp
<bigcalm> AlanBell: LOL
<popey> thought that might be My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding ã
<bigcalm> AlanBell: what's worse is that Hayley's ex husband is an Ian
<popey> didnt know she was previously married
<popey> or I did and forgot
<popey> minecraft O'clockl
<popey> -l
<bigcalm> \o/
 * popey plays on home server for a bit
<SuperEngineer> BBC News [freeview 80] now folks
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: what about it?
<SuperEngineer> [lulsec v. anonymous]
<MartijnVdS> ah
<MartijnVdS> Channel 307 here 8-)
<MartijnVdS> I've seen an interview with topiary
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<MartijnVdS> last month I think, when I was in the uk
<MartijnVdS> when he was charged(I think)
<SuperEngineer> yup - yhis was before he was imprisoned
<SuperEngineer> *this
<MartijnVdS> heh, mr antivirus
<MartijnVdS> NYANCAT
<MartijnVdS> ON TV
<Wobbo> Any tips? 'AMD Catalyst Control Center (Administrative)' won't work. I am using 'amdxdg-su -c amdcccle' true terminal, then i get a new terminal minal asking for my password. Then it doesn't matter if I put a richt password or not, that terminal wont show any AMD Catalyst...
<Wobbo> I have used the logical way, 'sudo amdcccle' but that won't save any installations or anything.
<SuperEngineer> hmmm.. that interview was intersting
<pr0ph3t> exit
#ubuntu-uk 2013-06-23
<MooDoo> morning all
<popey> yo
<MooDoo> :)
<christel> good morning prettycakes!
<MooDoo> morning christel <3
<popey> ooh http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1267261/snowden-leaves-hong-kong-commercial-flight-moscow
<shauno> heh, as if China didn't make them antsy enough.  he's going for the whole fan club
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<hd5770> morning guys
<hd5770> today i will install ubuntu
<brobostigon> good luck.
<brobostigon> always recommended, take backups all that normal stuff, beforehand, incase, play safe.
<MooDoo> backup?  what are these backups of which you speak ;)
<popey> was at a kids party yesterday and was quizzed about backups â»
<MooDoo> anyone know how czajkowski is going in NYC?
<MooDoo> popey: what fun....
<MooDoo> although I am paranoid about backups lol
<popey> she flys back this weekend
<MooDoo> popey: jelly and backups party eh?
<popey> no jelly, but beer and hot dogs
<popey> and water baloons â»
<MooDoo> even better
<MooDoo> was this extreame water balooning popey ?
<popey> â»
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: that's when  you fill some of the balloons with toxic chemicals?
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: It's ok, I'm just picturing popey on a trampoline throwing water baloons.
<popey> there was no tramopline, but there was a bouncy castle â»
<MooDoo> :)
<popey> directhex: Dead Island is a bit fun
<popey> bizarre that random people on the internet join in my games though
 * popey switches that off
<alistair> can i get help here regarding a wifi issue?
<MooDoo> alistair: just ask, if anyone can help they will
<AlanBell> and stay online for more than a few seconds ;)
<alistair> i have a realtek 8188ce b/g/n controller and i am running ubuntu 13.04, the connection keeps dropping every 3 minutes but it was working fine for a few months before that, how can i fix?
<AlanBell> Bug #1171708
<lubotu3> bug 1171708 in linux (Ubuntu) "Unreliable wireless connectivity with Realtek 8188ce - Solved" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1171708
<AlanBell> hmm, not sure what exactly is solved about that
<AlanBell> alistair: looks like someone else had the same problem and resolved the issue by downloading the vendor latest drivers, which you could try doing
<AlanBell> but really the right package in Ubuntu needs updating
<AlanBell> I would suggest downloading the driver and installing it as per that bug report (you will need sudo in front of the make install line)
<AlanBell> and add a comment to the bug saying whether or not it resolved your issue
<alistair> many thanks for your help :-)
 * SuperEngineer awoke this morning to the realisation that he had done 1st compile on a *nix system since the days of Unix system V!
<SuperEngineer> ...better be carteful - be coding again if I'm not careful ;)
<SuperEngineer> *careful
<MooDoo> SuperEngineer: stop that now lol
<SuperEngineer> :D
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: proper Unix? :)
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: or do you count compiling on Linux as well?
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: I used to work on proper Unix [even had to do the dreaded the course supplied by ICL] - manual as thick as a bible on my desk at all times.
<SuperEngineer> ...that was however a few days ago [sub days/decades but don't tell!]
<SuperEngineer> yesterday was 1st compile on Linux
<SuperEngineer> thinking of which... bbs - gonna do a full restart & check all still works
<SuperEngineer> hmmm - so far, so good
<dogmatic69> hi all
<MooDoo> hello dogmatic69
<dogmatic69> having so much problems with 13.04 :/
<MooDoo> boooo i'm just installing it now on my laptop
<dogmatic69> was a real pain making GXT550 Ti work, then was ok for some days.
<dogmatic69> started up this morning, was no longer using nvidia driver and unity was dead
<dogmatic69> managed to make the drivers work again, and now have title bars from unity but no main bar thingy
<dogmatic69> cant <windows-key> anything
<dogmatic69> MooDoo: my thoughts, its like some amateur alpha version. Really thinking about switching now, have read that others like kbuntu / xbuntu are much better these days
<dogmatic69> Since clean install of 13.04 +- 3 days ago, I must have had 50 -> 100 'this xyz has died, report problem / restart'
<dogmatic69> just 5 minutes ago apport died
<MooDoo> booo
<dogmatic69> biab, another reboot...
<alistair> icecast
<dogmatic69> MooDoo: hope you have better luck. I now have unit stuff working again, but lost all my personal changes...
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: what kind of hardware are you running on?
<MooDoo> dogmatic69: seems ok at the moment.
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: Ausus P5N-D mobo, Q8800 (or something) quad core cpu, 2x GTX550 Ti, SSD hdd
<dogmatic69> anyone know where the side bar config is stored (icon size / sticky / icons etc)
<MartijnVdS> gsettings, I think
<dogmatic69> I backed up and deleted the .config/ folder
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: just want to copy the files / lines. not re do it all again.
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: I think it's in ~/.config
<MartijnVdS> but I can't find where
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: its def in .config, I know that much as that is the folder I removed.
<dogmatic69> seems like there are some bin configs there, could be one of them
<MartijnVdS> it's the dconf/gsettings one
<MartijnVdS> I don't know why that has 2 names
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: that is the one. mine is corrupt :(
<Azelphur> Anyone here happen to know what kind of range you can get on a wireless qi charger, and whether it'd work through cloth?
<Azelphur> random questions :P
<daftykins> i actually have one
<daftykins> for charging my Nexus 4
<daftykins> thin cloth'd work yeah, but it seems to get unhappy after a few millimetres
<Azelphur> I see
<Azelphur> so I'd definitely get away with a piece of card, if not cloth :)
<daftykins> yipyip
<daftykins> i'm eventually going to get a proper set of custom shelves made up for my TV gear
<daftykins> amp, consoles, etc
<daftykins> my mate had the genius idea of recessing the Qi charger into the top panel then putting thin glass over the top
<daftykins> then it'd be kinda invisible to just place the phone down on :O
<Myrtti> Someone has done it with ikea nightstand
<daftykins> oh?
<Myrtti> http://www.slashgear.com/wireless-charging-nightstand-mod-injects-nokia-qi-into-ikea-30279904/
<daftykins> haha, so it is
<daftykins> ty Myrtti
<Myrtti> yw
<Azelphur> nice
<Myrtti> I'd use Nokia or some other quality make charger for that mood though
<Myrtti> not entirely convinced el cheapos would manage through wood that well
<daftykins> Azelphur: what device are you going to be charging?
<Azelphur> daftykins: same as you, nexus 4
<daftykins> i saw lots of comments on the Nokia chargers allegedly not working
<daftykins> it might have mostly been down to how slippery the phone is though, sliding around on it preventing a charge
<daftykins> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wireless-Charging-Powermat-Standard-Charger/dp/B00BS8BJ7Q/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1372000674&sr=8-3&keywords=nexus+4+qi+charger
<daftykins> i have that one
<Azelphur> daftykins: my crazy plan was to get this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LG-WCP-300-Wireless-Charging-Pad-QI-standard-charger-LED-indicator-Black-colour-/300912734521#vi-content and put it in my coat pocket, connected to a USB charger.
<daftykins> coat pocket 0o
<Azelphur> yea, gotta admit that'd be awesome.
<penguin42> and what were you going to power that off?
<daftykins> so is the idea it always charges when you pocket it whilst out and about?
<Azelphur> penguin42: I have one of these http://www.amazon.co.uk/Battery-World-Universal-External-Li-Polymer-Compatible/dp/B008AS55O0
<penguin42> Azelphur: heavy coat
<Azelphur> penguin42: my coat breaks people, I carry around a laptop, phone, tablet, that battery, and a bunch of other stuff.
<daftykins> O_O
<daftykins> a coat with pockets for such things!?
<Azelphur> Yup
<penguin42> the nuclear power source in his back pocket....
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> i just have a lovely laptop bag from crumpler
<Azelphur> hehe
<daftykins> but i need to cycle with my toys too
<penguin42> odd that Youtube still has the old notification header
<alistair> hi i am trying to get the rlt8188ce to work on ubuntu 13.04 i uninstalled linux firmware to enable me to install firmware-realtek and the connection is shown in the network connections window but there is no option to enable wifi, what do i need to install to get this option?
<daftykins> hmm
<daftykins> not much patience
<daftykins> penguin42: how do you mean?
<penguin42> daftykins: Still has the little redsquare with the number at the top
<MartijnVdS> Wow.. that was a big BigV outage
<penguin42> oh? The older bytemark stuff is fine
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: i only by chance found mine seized the other day :(
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: https://forum.bytemark.co.uk/comments.php?DiscussionID=4551&page=1
<MartijnVdS> also, https://forum.bytemark.co.uk/comments.php?DiscussionID=4546&page=1#Item_2
<MartijnVdS> but yes, you have to look for it yourself :(
<daftykins> i'd be happy if they auto reset them
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: some of their disk servers ("tails") went to go cry in a corner, I guess
<daftykins> phew redtape lurks in other channels now
<MartijnVdS> yay.. uh.. I mean
<MartijnVdS> does he now?
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Ah yeh just looked at the forums - my VM is pre-BigV
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: I moved mine a few months ago
<penguin42> mine was UML some years back
<MartijnVdS> mine was kvm with an external kernel
<MartijnVdS> which was annoying
<penguin42> yeh that's how mine is still
<MartijnVdS> now it's just bare KVM, so I boot a proper Ubuntu in it
<daftykins> i'm using wheezy with their symbiosis thing
<daftykins> it's pretty neat
<penguin42> looking at the dates in the fileystem I think it was created about 2005
<penguin42> (running wheezy)
<MartijnVdS> Everyone is rebooting their VMs now.. disk access is SLOOOOW
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> mines still serving a site so i'm sure it's alright
<daftykins> although i still can't SSH in since i changed the default port =|
<MartijnVdS> haha, oops
<daftykins> yeah their auto firewall thingy seems to be breaking things
<MartijnVdS> Is anyone else going to Spa for F1 in August? :)
<daftykins> hah, yip their firewall thingy is opening port 22 but not the port i changed it to
<daftykins> silly bigv
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: must be your own firewall
<daftykins> no
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: because I can connect on lots of ports just fine
<daftykins> i think you misunderstand, my BigV VM is running symbiosis which has automated firewall config
<daftykins> i changed my SSH port, but their rules statically consider SSH to be on the default port alone
<daftykins> weirdly it worked once i set it up, as i changed what my SSH port is in their config files too
<daftykins> yet somehow it's now broken
<MartijnVdS> ah, symbiosis' firewall ;)
<daftykins> yip
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: at least the console works, right (bigv -> vm connect:)
<daftykins> yeah that's what i'm using
<daftykins> the way it doesn't give you the login prompt confuses sometimes :D
<daftykins> having a blank line and just having to start typing your user
<popey> Evening
<MartijnVdS> \o popey
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> ugh this woodworm business really isn't pleasant
<daftykins> keep finding them about the house and have to grab them for disposal
<SuperEngineer> a mincraft question [just in case anyone here knows about minecraft lol]...
<daftykins> i helped setup a Linux server once, that's about as far as it goes XD
<SuperEngineer> ...why is thgere a mionecraft.net, minecraft.org [and what is minetest on software ceentre like].
<SuperEngineer> daftykins: why "grab them for disposal" - surely, a frying pan with bacon!  nom nom
<daftykins> they're like 2mm long XD
<penguin42> daftykins: Hmm never seen them; we get some silverfish every so often, and some carpet beetles
<SuperEngineer> oooo -chewy woodworm with bacon! that needs a good lard to enjoy them at their best!
<daftykins> -_-
<SuperEngineer> ...and are you sure there's no locusts?  Then, with that lot you could do a pealla!  ;)
<daftykins> you're kinda pushing that one a bit far
<mungbean> star wars ep II is dull
<mungbean> feels more like lame fan fiction
<daftykins> i find the entire Star Wars franchise overrated tosh personally :(
<mungbean> iv-vi are part of my childhood
<daftykins> i'm sure it was different when they were new
<daftykins> http://raspberrycolocation.com/
<daftykins> oh-emm-gee
 * popey notes daftykins may be watching LAS â»
<MartijnVdS> Amsterdam they say?
<daftykins> popey: yeah redtape linked me, i'd never heard of it
<daftykins> popey: in another chan i might add, he hides from you
<popey> twat
<popey> (I am in that channel too)
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> he is a weird one ;x
<daftykins> i quite like this rasp-pi colo for free idea
<popey> yeah, neat
<penguin42> daftykins: I wonder whether they've just got a fast x86 somewhere running qemu
<daftykins> and they keep the pi's? :)
<popey> heh
<popey> we use qemu based arm builders for ubuntu
<popey> https://launchpad.net/builders see the bottom of that list
<daftykins> heh that dudes using a quake console style terminal emulator with irssi in it, isn't he?
<daftykins> hackintosh lappy, oddness
<popey> his system76 machine?
<daftykins> yeah i assumed that he was saying it's a hackintosh, earlier
<popey> ah
<daftykins> or maybe that was just about a home system
<popey> i thought his hackintosh was another machine, desktop class
<daftykins> probably then yeah
<popey> photo he posted was a giant monitor
<daftykins> ah didn't see that
<daftykins> just when he's got his laptop up i couldn't tell the OS
<popey> i think his hackintosh is old
<popey> been around a while
<popey> https://plus.google.com/u/0/108668411027851722546/posts/gaFXJ44EJe4
<daftykins> ooh
<daftykins> nice bit from Cheney there
<popey> heh
<popey> never seen this show
<daftykins> i switch off at politics
<popey> heh
<popey> me too mostly
<popey> especially us politics
<popey> ooh http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRivx-wEaiE
<popey> might have to go and see that
<daftykins> zomg ex star trek matey
<daftykins> doesn't even look like he's aged a day in the last 12+ years
<popey> oh thats what he was in!
<daftykins> yip!
<daftykins> TNG then a bit of DS9
<shauno> I've been watching Enterprise over this weekend's shifts.  I almost feel guilty for getting past the first episode
<daftykins> the first was pretty bad
<daftykins> Q and court shenanigans? ugh
<popey> I quite liked Enterpise
<popey> more so than TNG
<AlanBell> I watched the first several
<popey> never got into TNG or DS9
<daftykins> i've still yet to give it a go
<popey> but then I quite like Scott Bakula from Quantum Leap
<daftykins> i was trying to watch DS9 back to back 'recently' but it's tough going
<daftykins> haha yeah :D
<AlanBell> I was quite interested in the various bits of backstory they were giving the technology like transporters and replicators
<daftykins> i tried to watch all of Quantum Leap too but my word is it samey
<popey> oh very much so
<popey> but most american stuff back then was
<popey> where there was no season story arc
<popey> like you get now with programmes like Dexter
 * brobostigon wont get inveolved as an inparital memory-alpha editor.
<daftykins> there were some proper plot episodes in Quantum Leap
<daftykins> but yeah quite rare
<daftykins> i'd heard how the very ending went but i just couldn't get there :D
 * popey has no idea what "memory-alpha editor"
<popey> *is
<daftykins> memory alpha is a star trek wiki i think
<shauno> star trek wikia
<popey> ahh
 * AlanBell hums Piggy Sue
<brobostigon> yep.
<popey> googling piggy sue is interesting
<daftykins> is that some kind of Muppets cover of Peggy Sue? :>
<AlanBell> it was a rather good twist at the end of a Quantum Leap episode
<AlanBell> http://www.sheilaomalley.com/?p=7857
<daftykins> oh yes :)
<daftykins> Sam's morals got pretty frustrating throughout that series too
<daftykins> :D
<mungbean> didn't QL become quantum shag?
<popey> because he wanted to get home
<mungbean> bit like a frustrated teenager waking up from a dirty dream too early, sam would jump just at the wrong time
<popey> and just shagging his way through history wouldn't have resulted in that
<daftykins> XD
<popey> i dont recall the piggy sue ep, but it was a loooong time ago
<popey> i had them on VHS at one point
<mungbean> so did he ever get home?
<popey> there was a last episode
<daftykins> i saw an ep where he was back in his own time briefly
<popey> no spoilers!
<popey> ã
<daftykins> i think he might have been in someone elses body though
<mungbean> i always think its like"how i met your mother"...nonsense wrapper around a basic programme
<popey> never seen that either
<mungbean> wife watches it, i ended up watching
<mungbean> into the returned atm,
<mungbean> its on now
<mungbean> but recording it
<mungbean> really atmospheric
 * popey checks to see if QL is on netflix
<mungbean> returned itson 4od
<popey> YES!
<daftykins> i'm not sure i could deal with TV sharing
<mungbean> also baby is unwell
<daftykins> i'd have to get a 3D one that you can show two sources on at once XD
<mungbean> and i don't like advers
 * popey watches QL S1E1
<mungbean> waits for tldr in 1hr
<popey> haha, the woman in the opening scene has LEDs in her shoe heels
 * mungbean has been lookng at dioramas. wish i had an excuse to make one
<shauno> on a completely unrelated note, I've been enjoying Kerbal Space Program.  very nerdy.  on steam, on linux, has a free demo
<shauno> surprised I hadn't heard of it
<daftykins> popey: that's just the totally accurate future ;)
<mungbean> except only 5yr olds wear them
<popey> its not far off
<popey> you can buy them now
<mungbean> life imitating art?
<mungbean> ugh i need to try and sleep now in case i dont sleep later
 * popey hugs netflix
 * daftykins pats locally stored media
 * brobostigon hugs his pink floyd records.
<daftykins> *crack crack shatter*
<daftykins> D:
<brobostigon>  ihave them on cd's now, :)
<popey> Yes, S03E01 he leaps back into himself as a kid
<popey> I used to have a TDK tape with loads of TV themes on, recorded directly off the telly â»
<daftykins> indeedy
<popey> including QL
<daftykins> haha
<popey> pip pip hamitron
 * hamitron runs out of the way of popey's path
<bigcalm> Hola peeps :)
<popey> pip pip
<bigcalm> Humf, too many ubuntu-uk channels open.
<popey> "too many"?
<bigcalm> 3 last count
<hamitron> do you guys still play minecraft?
<bigcalm> The channel list is partly obscuring the list, so I see "#ubuntu-uk" 3 times
<bigcalm> Anybody's guess as to which one I was talking in :)
<popey> hah
 * popey hugs irssi
<popey> hmm, minecraft just gives me a black screen
<hamitron> I haven't played for ages
<popey> my kids play most weekends
<hamitron> you still running a server?
<popey> yeah, for the kids to play on, but publicly we play on the bitfolk one
<hamitron> ok :)
<brobostigon> any interested people around, to write NDA's for something?
<popey> can you not use a pre-written one?
<brobostigon> i am just looking at.
<popey> never had to, but sounds like the kind of thing you can find online
<brobostigon> yes, you can.
<brobostigon> only NDA i ever signed, was in 2001 with BE, to design machines based on BeOS, which as i didnt know t the time, wasnt long before there collapse.
<brobostigon> when i was at collage.
<brobostigon> their*
<daftykins> that's where you were going wrong, you were studying at a type of artwork!
<brobostigon> i was studying a form pf computer engineering.
<brobostigon> of*
<hamitron> didn't include typing classes? ;)
<brobostigon> no, it did not, otherwise i would have became a secretery.
<brobostigon> great song, random choice, from my sd card on my new tv, weird thing.
<brobostigon> dads*
<brobostigon> brothers in arms.
#ubuntu-uk 2014-06-16
<andreas> daftykins: Do you have any idea on what I could do that may be able fix my problem?
<diddledan> the disconnections all state they're "user requested"
<daftykins> andreas: i've glanced and have been thinking, but i've also been divided between two users in another channel :)
<andreas> No. The fact is that at most of the times, I had no connection at all, but the wifi symbol on my internet manager showed that I was connected to my hotspot.
<andreas> diddledan: Therefore, the only thing I could do, was to disconnect and connect again
<diddledan> ok, standard networking diagnostics then. connect and run in a terminal "route -n" then "ping -c4 8.8.8.8" and paste the results
<andreas> diddledan: manually. this thing worked again for a couple of minutes, and then again I had no internet access. But my wifi symbol showed that I was connected to the hotspot.
<andreas> Ok, I will have to remove the wire then for a while, to connect to my hotspot, and I will be back again :)
<diddledan> yeah, connect and wait until you have no access before running those two commands. also might be worth doing the same for ip6: "route -6 -n" and "ping6 -c4 2a00:1450:400b:c02::8a"
<andreas> diddledan: OK, thanks a lot. I am doing that now.
<diddledan> also might be worth a traceroute and traceroute6 to those two ip addresses
<diddledan> if neither of the pings or traceroutes yeild anything helpful let's try pinging the university: ping -c4 10.43.223.254
<diddledan> wow, I found an IP that nobody knows who the owner is
<diddledan> (according to whois)
<diddledan> (discovered from that syslog dump from andreas)
<diddledan> 163.1.2.1
<diddledan> it's one of the university's chosen forwarding dns servers
<diddledan> I was trying to discover which university it was :-p
<diddledan> aha, the other name server responds - oxford
<daftykins> you know his hostmask is ox.ac.uk? :)
<diddledan> that woulda been too obvious for an idiot like me
<daftykins> hey you're talking to someone who couldn't see an = sign
<diddledan> that's because there was no = sign :-p
<diddledan> I love this on the oucs website: We want to use cookies to collect data on how people use our site. Click here to accept, and dismiss this notice. For more information, and to change your preferences later, see our cookie policy. If you prefer not to accept them you may disable them (this sets a cookie).
<diddledan> we want to use cookies. do you accept? no? then we'll use a cookie.
<daftykins> LOL
<diddledan> shows that politicians shouldn't legislate when they don't understand what they're legislating
<diddledan> the whole EU cookie law is stupid
<diddledan> last I heard the enforcement agency in the uk have gone on record to state that they won't prosecute anyone who doesn't abide by the law
<diddledan> which makes the whole law pointless
<diddledan> like the french law that you need a breathaliser in your car at all times
<diddledan> the law failed to appreciate that once you've used the one required breathaliser you no longer have a breathaliser and are thus breaking the law
<diddledan> the law now carries zero penalty but is still a legal requirement
<diddledan> farcical. the whole eu is a joke
<diddledan> it started off well-meaning but then decended into politics
<diddledan> the problem is I actually think the eu could do so much good
<diddledan> instead they tell us we're not allowed to set cookies
<diddledan> and.. wb andatche
<diddledan> andreas:
<diddledan> you wandered-in right in the middle of my ranting and raving
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> i agree with you there
<daftykins> and you know, down on the islands, though we're not part of the EU we have to meet most EU directives on things in order to be allowed to trade and cooperate with those in the EU around us
<andreas> hi again. For a very weird reason, my wireless is working fine in the past 20 minutes. I'll post the results now
<andreas> http://tny.cz/4ff3d72f
<daftykins> Jersey just had to drop 60 grand on cow testing facilities i believe in order to be allowed to export beef to England again
<diddledan> oh joy
<diddledan> grr
<diddledan> daftykins: surely a better option would be cow-tasting facilities! :-p
<andreas> http://tny.cz/3a7eb577
<diddledan> andreas: maybe the network itself was having issues - it being a sunday night meaning that nobody will have been watching it  :-p
<andreas> No, I was having that for the past 4 days...
<diddledan> I know at work the servers ONLY go down when I'm not available to fix them
<andreas> both at Eduroam and Residential network
<diddledan> oddness
<andreas> hahaha :p
<diddledan> tho they're both backed by the same backhaul as far as I can tell
<daftykins> diddledan: om nom nom
<andreas> diddledans: No, it's a problem with Ubuntu. I was using windows in the past 8 months here, and I never had problems...
<andreas> http://tny.cz/78573730
<daftykins> andreas: is there a webpage for the resnet service?
<daftykins> just in case you know where to look off hand
<daftykins> i wonder if they offer any kind of support
<andreas> http://tny.cz/a82faa93
<diddledan> luckily with it being a big university they're probably not going to dismiss you for using ubuntu like a commercial isp would
<daftykins> :D indeed
<andreas> daftykins: As far I know, there isn't any website yet...
<daftykins> http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/network/addresses/ipv6.xml?ID=devicenets
<daftykins> hmm not as useful as the result looked
<diddledan> I love IP6
<diddledan> that page is a proposal AFAICT
<daftykins> yeah
<diddledan> but.. IP6 makes subnetting so much cleaner than IP4
<diddledan> it's entirely CIDR-style
<andreas> I will ask for support, but if they do not succeed they will just blame my wireless drivers I guess :p
<diddledan> IP4 with the dotted-quad netmask callowed for some evil setups
<diddledan> if they're really good they'll help you formulate a bug-report for the network driver if that is indeed the issue
<diddledan> uni-techs are usually pretty good chaps
<diddledan> tho they might just say "plug it in" :-p
<daftykins> yeah, i'd bet it depends on the kind of department
<daftykins> Windows admins -> hands instantly thrown up in the air
<andreas> the fact is that while I have this very annoying problem all the time, very few times the network works as expected...
<andreas> like now...
<andreas> therefore, I cannot reproduce the problem
<andreas> and it would be very hard for me to explain, and for them to fix the problem...
<daftykins> andreas: do you have any friends/coursemates with normal rented accomodation with wireless networks you can try, or any holidays soon to head home and see how it works off of campus wireless?
<diddledan> that's a good plan
<andreas> unfortunately no... Almost everybody at oxford lives either at College accommodation or University accommodation...
<andreas> I might try that tho, in a coffe shop I guess
<diddledan> if we can isolate it to specific to the laptop vs specific to the network that would help a lot
<diddledan> another thing to test is whether a friend's different laptop with ubuntu 14.04 has similar issues
<andreas> yes, this is a very good idea. I will go tomorrow to starbucks to check that..
<diddledan> starbucks ftw
<diddledan> is starbucks' wifi free these days?
<diddledan> I can't remember whether they opened it up or not
<diddledan> it's been a while since I've been in one
<diddledan> used to go regularly
<diddledan> !enter | diddledan
<diddledan> no !enter?
<andreas> yes, it's free :) However, ssl is disabled :p
<andreas> and you can connect for a limited time (I guess 1h ) at least in oxford...
<diddledan> nice
<andreas> :) yes
<diddledan> they really should know better than to actively prevent ssl tho
<diddledan> it's already a public network, they could at least allow people some chance of privacy protection
<daftykins> i'm getting major deja vu with this conversation now.
<diddledan> oh?
<diddledan> did I rant over that already?
<andreas> Yes, I agree. I have no idea why they do that.. Maybe to monitor that people do not use their network for "bad things"
<daftykins> probably just us two helping someone late at night
<diddledan> hehe
<diddledan> nightowls ftw
<andreas> haha :) thanks a lot guys for your help
<andreas> I'll check if I can connect without any problems at starbucks
<diddledan> maybe we should get the bot to change the topic after midnight
<andreas> and I'll also seek some help from the support
<ali1234> wlan0: deauthenticating from 40:18:b1:74:5d:54 by local choice (reason=3)
<andreas> Thanks a lot. you have been very helpful
<diddledan> allo ali1234
<ali1234> this usually indicates CRDA problems
<diddledan> CRDA?
<ali1234> did you buy your wireless card in another country by any chance?
<diddledan> oooh
<andreas> I bought my whole laptop from another country.
<diddledan> frequency tables are listed
<andreas> but I haven't changed the card
<diddledan> could be related
<diddledan> ali1234: aren't wifi chips supposed to cope with moving regulatory domains by locking to the regdom announced by the first wifi beacon it receives after powering on?
<ali1234> no
<diddledan> I was sure that was what I'd read elsewhere
<ali1234> what CRDA does is only allow you to connet if the wireless card and the access point both agree that the channel is allowed
<ali1234> so if you have a UK card, it won't connect to a misconfigured router in HK using channel 13
<diddledan> http://wireless.kernel.org/en/developers/Regulatory/CRDA#Changing_regulatory_domains
<ali1234> it looks like the card connected briefly though
<diddledan> that suggests it might be possible to switch
<diddledan> yeah it connects sometimes
<diddledan> and just now he remained connected for 20 minutes
<diddledan> but.. the resnet uses multiple access points with roaming between
<diddledan> so I would also surmise they use multiple frequencies
<ali1234> that could be it...
<diddledan> there are mentions in the logs of switching between BSSIDs
<daftykins> that might be through legitimate movement though?
<daftykins> a driver would have to be pretty dumb to keep dancing between APs when they're rankable by signal strength
<ali1234> what does "iwlist wlan0 channel" say?
<ali1234> daftykins: it might be legitimate, but the different APs might be on different channels and one of those channels might be disallowed by CRDA, causing the drops
<diddledan> if this is the problem the easiest fix will be to get a cheapo uk-licensed wifi-usb-thingy
<daftykins> ali1234: ah i see
<diddledan> (after checking it'll work with linux!)
<ali1234> that would also probably fix it if the problem is a bad driver
<daftykins> but then, surely a fine University campus would be configured to only operate the european channels? :D
<diddledan> does the uk have any channels available that the rest of europe doesn't?
<ali1234> 12 and 13 are the usual troublemakers
<diddledan> ali1234: if this really is the issue (and it sounds like a strong candidate) then somebody needs to get network manager to understand the problem and alert the user with helpful text when it strikes
<ali1234> yeah that would be nice
<diddledan> just dying isn't helpful at all
<ali1234> this might not be the problem though
<diddledan> http://gaspull.geeksaresexytech.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/cap-tech.jpg
<ali1234> it took me forever to figure out when this happened to me
<ali1234> more useful error messages would have been great
<diddledan> indeed
<ali1234> did anyone ever try inkjet refilling with the syringes and stuff?
<diddledan> I decided it was a bad idea and didn't try
<ali1234> i just ordered a kit
<ali1234> it looks really easy in the video
<ali1234> and so cheap... it was like Â£7 for enough ink to refill 20 times
<diddledan> I suppose it depends which printer you have as to how easy it is
<ali1234> and the cartridges are like Â£30
<diddledan> HP inkjets, e.g. include the print-head in the cartridge which I would assume makes refilling a nightmare
<diddledan> the advantage however, is you get new heads everytime you replace the cartridge
<ali1234> well, that's what i have :(
<ali1234> the problem is that the heads always get blocked up when the cartridge dries out
<diddledan> yeah
<ali1234> so i figure just print out a test page every month and keep refilling
<diddledan> I found I don't use a printer enough for inkjet to be suitable - they cartridges are always dead when I come to print something
<ali1234> yeah
<diddledan> I bought a chepo samsung colour laser instead
<diddledan> no good for photos tho
<daftykins> low dpi?
<daftykins> lol laser dpi, you know what i mean.
<diddledan> oh no, dpi is fine
<ali1234> yeah it's more about colour reproduction
<diddledan> just that the finished result isn't as good as inkjet on photopaper
<ali1234> lasers work by melting plastic dust onto the paper, basically... it's just not the same as ink
<ali1234> it doesn't mix the same way cos it's relatively large particles rather than liquid, and it tends to cake as well
<daftykins> yeah
<daftykins> i've done IT support
<daftykins> haha, reminds me of a time actually when a secretary at a place of education went to pick up a toner cartridge and spilt a load of toner all over her white shirt
<ali1234> "no problem i'll just hoover it up..."
<daftykins> where technically she shouldn't have been handling it as it wasn't her department, but eh...
<ali1234> lol
<daftykins> i actually did have to go and fetch the toner vac from the IT lecturing department :)
<diddledan> that's why I went with a laser - dry powder just cannot dry out any more
<ali1234> yeah it's far more economic if you rarely print
<daftykins> i wanted to sneak this cute little samsung mono laser scanner network combo from someone, but they ended up finding a use for it ;_;
<andreas> I will have to sleep I guess :) Once again, thanks a lot for your help. I appreciate it a lot :)
<daftykins> good luck o/ and do keep us updated
<daftykins> i love hearing the end to these tales
<andreas> Thanks. I will :) Goodnight guys
<diddledan> welcome here anytime
<daftykins> more so if you bake
<daftykins> i like brownies and cheesecake
<diddledan> cheesecake ftw
<daftykins> \o/
 * diddledan watching the original matrix in hd
<diddledan> <3 the wachoskis
<diddledan> +w
<knightwise> morning
<MooDoo> hello all
<knightwise> mornin moodoo
<psichas> mornin' you too
<MooDoo> happy birthday AlanBell
<popey> anyone here use LUKS on 14.04?
<TwistedLucidity> popey: Is that what 'buntu encrypts the home folders with?
<popey> no
<popey> thats ecryptfs
<bashrc> morning
<bashrc> what is LUKS used for?
<Myrtti> encryption
<popey> full disk encryption..
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
 * popey falls off his chair
<bashrc> well I'm using full disk encyption on home and work machines, and they're running 14.04
<bashrc> so perhaps I am using LUKS
<popey> I'm re-installing my laptop, tempted to use LUKS, but never have used it before, only used ecryptfs home directory encryption
<Myrtti> I find it less hassle than ecryptfs
<Myrtti> I used it for several years
<Myrtti> not now though, because this laptop came OEM installed
<bashrc> these days I would recommend that everyone use full disk encryption. Even if it wouldn't stop GCHQ it probably would stop a laptop theif from getting to your email/accounts/banking stuff.
<Myrtti> ^^ yup
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday and happy Fresh Veggies Day! :-D
<bigcalm> It's Baz from the Happy Mondays!
<MooDoo> twisting my melon man.
<JamesTait> popey, I use LUKS on 14.04.
<foobarry> somebody is deleting 2000 emails click by click
<foobarry> the clicking is gonna make me go insane
<bashrc> it is if its a mechanical keyboard
<foobarry> doing mouse clicks
<foobarry> not sure i dare mention shift-end delete
<foobarry> enforced reboots after windows has decided to run updates clearly sends a mesasge they don't expect people are doing real work on a windows pc
<foobarry> especially as my laptop boots linux by default
<bashrc> I dual booted with Windows for quite a number of years, but now I don't bother since I don't use Windows at all
<foobarry> need it on my work laptop for vsphere client
<foobarry> the web client doesn't have feature parity
<foobarry> so i use it few times a week maybe
<foobarry> get spammed with update notices every time i boot it
<foobarry> somehow the 40gb SSD partition is full too
<foobarry> win7+vsphere client :S
<dwatkins> I don't get why VMWare don't make a fully functional web-client that's built in to ESXi.
<MooDoo> that's the thing that annoys me about vsphere, only a windows client.
<dwatkins> I guess if I ran a server, I'd have to run at least one virtual Windows instance for the vSphere webserver, but it's less than ideal.
<dwatkins> I assume the Windows client has more functionality, though.
<foobarry> no, just different
<foobarry> you need both atm
<foobarry> one can't do certain things , the other can't do certain things
<foobarry> the web client has generally more features at this point
<foobarry> but also sucks to use
<foobarry> and is slow
<awilkins> We were annoyed for a long time with certain server vendors Lights-out remote desktop clients
<awilkins> They only worked properly on Windows / IE. Which was annoying because you were usually mounting an ISO of a Linux distro and installing it.
<awilkins> I still can't quite believe that people still fall into the trap of implementing things for IE
<directhex> low-bid contractors doing the work
<directhex> IE6 is still king in china
<foobarry> really?
<foobarry> http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser_version-CN-monthly-201202-201302
<bashrc> IE is a muggs game
<diddledan> morning
 * diddledan needs cola
<foobarry> ie6 reminds me of 640x480
<diddledan> (cola is my version of coffee :-p)
<diddledan> foobarry: mobile? :-p
<foobarry> its the only time u ever saw it, on a machine with no drivers and no updated s/w
<brobostigon> morning boys amd girls.
<awilkins> IE is still my nemesis even in version 10
<awilkins> Will have to revise some page transforms because their output works perfectly well in Firefox or Chrome
<diddledan> 10?! you're allowed to target that recent?
<awilkins> But IE doesn't support :before and :after psuedo-elements
<diddledan> really?
<diddledan> I didn't know that
<diddledan> awilkins: http://caniuse.com/#search=%3Abefore
<diddledan> awilkins: partial support in 8, full support in 9+
<awilkins> Weird, because it just doesn't want to work for me
<awilkins> Is there some kind of special voodoo you have to do to get IE to turn that feature on?
<awilkins> Like telling it to pull it's socks up and be a better browser?
<awilkins> Maybe it's something else like the selectors I'm using
<awilkins> Aha
<awilkins> IE sez : Document mode = "IE5 Quirks"
<diddledan> eek
<foobarry> windows is refusing to accept my page file settings
<diddledan> your html is evil old then :-p
<foobarry> silently ignores
<awilkins> Apparently it's gone from being the most presumptive browser in the world that guesses your mime-type to the most persnickity and prudish
<diddledan> awilkins: to force it to standards mode change your <!DOCTYPE to read "<!DOCTYPE html>"
<awilkins> You put it in standards mode and it works fine
<awilkins> Still not quite right but an improvement
<TwistedLucidity> Myrtti: Does hibernate etc work with LUKS? It doesn't with ecryptfs (you have to enter a common secret before log-in to mount the swap partition).
<Myrtti> I only do suspend so I wouldn't know
<TwistedLucidity> Myrtti: OK - ta
<Myrtti> I've not had anything than trouble with hibernate and I don't really see the reason for using it so I've just not used it :-D
<foobarry> Myrtti: was discussing spinning wheels with wife's friend in case i want to surprise her with one
<foobarry> she has the http://www.winghamwoolwork.co.uk/kromski-wheels/39-kromski-sonata.html
<foobarry> looks similar to yours
<foobarry> feel out of my depth, like a granny buying a laptop
<mapps> hi all
<mapps> anyone here use twitter much?
<foobarry> mapps: did u lose loads of Â£Â£ on the spain match?
<mapps> no because i didnt do my favourite tactic
<diddledan> your favourite tactic being "bet on the loser"?
<mapps> LOL
<mapps> very funny
<mapps> thats not the plan:P
<diddledan> lol
<MooDoo> oh is football on the telly?
<diddledan> ooh post
 * diddledan wanders off
<mapps> no..being that i prefer to want wel nothing to happen...so im under..under in football..bseballi..ice hockey....basketball
<mapps> ALWAYS under
 * foobarry is hit by a grue
<mapps> lol
<mapps> then after 1st goal i consider backing the next higher unders so like uder 3.5
<mapps> but ive been burnt by it too many times
<foobarry> i thought you were betting on spain to win big
<mapps> I did bet spain
<mapps> but i bet on well..every atch
<mapps> match
<mapps> i bet over 2.5 goals in yesterdays games (didnt want to) but every game is going over
<foobarry> so how much did u lose on the spain match?
<mapps> total?
<foobarry> yeah
<mapps> probably like 1500 GBP
<mapps> noone thought spain would get battered
<mapps> dont make out im the only one;p
<mapps> cant wait for this weeks 24....anyone else been watching
<foobarry> after RVP goal i thought they could pump a few more in
<foobarry> they= NED
<diddledan> mapps: I been watching it
<diddledan> it's getting exciting
<Myrtti> foobarry: sure, I have no experience on it though. I know a person who sold hers to get a Schacht Sidekick. I personally would be anxious over the main wheel being so exposed but for the price it seems good, a lot lighter than mine (obviously - less wood). Get two extra bobbins though. I ordered more almost immediately.
<mapps> you liking it diddledan ?
<foobarry> they were so lifted by a great "sensible soccer" style header
<mapps> yea totallt man
<diddledan> are they gonna turn the girl?!
<mapps> i thought it might be a let down when they talked about it..and the fact its ..12 eps?
<mapps> 100% yes
<foobarry> Myrtti: your friend had the sonata ?
<diddledan> yeah, it's still 24 hours apparently so they're gonna have a jump or two
<Myrtti> yeah
<mapps> because she finally saw what her mum was gonna do after the air strike
<foobarry> hmm
<mapps> ahh ok
<mapps> deff turn her diddledan
<mapps> the bit where they chopped her finger off...
<mapps> ;[
<foobarry> not sure what others do that the kiwi doesn't
<diddledan> mapps: that's what I thought - especially after she saw the aftermath of mummy trying to assassinate her
<mapps> i think she's kinda hot tbh
<diddledan> sshhh
<Myrtti> foobarry: maybe solid wood
<mapps> not as hot as agent walker
<diddledan> she's a bad guy!
<mapps> pah
<mapps> doesnt mean she cant be hot;p
<diddledan> yeah, agent walker is awesome
<Myrtti> foobarry: although it's not a sign of quality by any means. Mine is made of ply too
<mapps> yep
<mapps> loved her in chuck and dexter
<mapps> 100% stunning
<diddledan> me too
<Myrtti> foobarry: well, the main casing is ply, wheel is solid wood
<mapps> cant believe she's single..or i couldnt see any mention of a partner ec
<diddledan> hmm, maybe we're in with a chance :-p
<mapps> lol
<mapps> me..i doubt it..you welll who knows
<mapps> :D
<diddledan> lol
<TwistedLucidity> Myrtti: I find it handy to simply close the lid, enter a zero power state, and then resume later. As I'm on an SSD, coming back from hibernate is faster than restarting applications.
<diddledan> there's rumour that she might lead a renaissance of 24 or a spinoff without jack
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> hang on
<diddledan> the producers didn't rule it out
<mapps> you mean continue 24 without jack?
<foobarry> made of European alder and birch
<diddledan> there's thinking along those lines yes
<mapps> man NO NO NO
<mapps> jack == 24
<mapps> a spin off..sure
<mapps> but not 24 without jack
<diddledan> I lost the link but I read an article last night with the producers about potential avenues to pursue if they felt they had a decent story
<mapps> see what gets me right..people say it isnt as good as it used to be yea
<mapps> well
<Myrtti> TwistedLucidity: yeah, the only difference for me with that is that it's not zero power, but I don't usually keep my laptop off the leash that long
<mapps> its still better than eastenders/emmerdale and MILLIONS watch that rubbish
<diddledan> bollards!
<Myrtti> foobarry: the care instructions on Kromski's website are confusing
<diddledan> I think it got better as it went along
<foobarry> i'm watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgTDEDYYoyA
<mapps> always shocked when i speak to people at work and theyve NEVER seen it
<diddledan> as the characters grew you could see more of their motivations and such making the story more compelling in latter seasons
<foobarry> mapps: seen what? football?
<mapps> 24!
<foobarry> never seen it
<mapps> or ..well most tv series
<mapps> omg
<diddledan> :-o
<mapps> ok but wait youll have seen some of the shows i loved
<foobarry> never watched even 1 second of it
<mapps> the wire...sopranos..breaking bad ...prison break?
<foobarry> no, no , no ,no
<foobarry> none of them
<diddledan> foobarry: definitely not 7 seasons of 24 hours?
<mapps> omg
<bashrc> I don't watch tv
<MooDoo> suits, i'm addicted to that at the moment.
<mapps> :[
<mapps> yes
<mapps> suits is GREAT
<foobarry> US tv generally sucks
<mapps> and rachel === STUNNING
<mapps> no way
<foobarry> because its made for profit not story
<MooDoo> mapps: I'm more into donna
<TwistedLucidity> mapps: Rachel + more pies = stunning
<Myrtti> foobarry: kiwi does come with the sliding hook flyer, which makes it a bit nicer than the traditional multiple hook setup
<mapps> lol
<mapps> really? i dont see it with donna at all
<mapps> noit saying she's ugly..but just dont see much
<diddledan> I always preferred willow to buffy :-p
<foobarry> Myrtti: i would need a windfall or payrise to afford this for mrs foobarry
<TwistedLucidity> Gabriel Macht has had a few roles. Always plays the same cock-sure character. Worked well in Suits.
<foobarry> i think i'll ask her to try her friends one out
<diddledan> TwistedLucidity: are you allowed to say the C-word in here?
<Myrtti> foobarry: yeah, sounds like a good idea
<foobarry> she doesn't like surprises much anwya
<mapps> 24 /crisis / continum / enlisted / colbert report /orphan black/ gang related /melissa and joey/ fargo/major crimes/criminal minds /motive/veep/the americans
<mapps> thats just some of what i watch at
<foobarry> nope
<mapps> atm
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: It's a verb (to cock a gun; where cock-sure comes from), a male chicken and an item of plumbing. Why would that be banned?
<foobarry> then again they aren't on UK telly
<mapps> anyone else watch graceland o fargo those are great!
<Myrtti> yeah I'd get mad for any surprise purchase over the value of Â£75 pounds done without my knowledge to 'surprise me'
<diddledan> TwistedLucidity: nono, character
<foobarry> Myrtti: yeah, esp an engagement ring :P
<foobarry> which is why i gave haribo rong
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: Heh
<TwistedLucidity> Sure I've seen Rick Hoffman in something else too
<mapps> someone getting married?
<foobarry> no, was long ago
<mapps> oh
<Myrtti> ... I proposed with a jubilee clip and then we went to the jewellers and it was a bit more expensive than I totally felt comfortable with, but I plan to wear it the rest of my life and it reflects geekyness in both of us, so...
<Myrtti> (I proposed on Leap Day, obviously)
<mapps> i dunno what that is
<mapps> jubilee clip?
<Myrtti> (or of course)
<Myrtti> https://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/6941119761/
<diddledan> mapps: a ring used to secure pipes together
<mapps> oh
<Myrtti> hose clamps or jubilee clips, have heard both used for those
<mapps> whys that greeky
<foobarry> had to speak to 1500+ people yesterday :S
<mapps> ;[[
<foobarry> twice
<foobarry> don't like public talking
<mapps> what were you doing?
<mapps> and me too
<diddledan> what geek does?
<mapps> i go into my speak really quick mode
<mapps> talk really quick and that makes it worse lol
<TwistedLucidity> mapps: Go to a speaking club.
<mapps> if i talked at a normal pace people prob wouldnt think much but when i speak quick..oh oh
<mapps> its a combination..like ....also get hoit and bothered then standing there sweating and talking like im in a race
<mapps> luckily dont have to do any now
<foobarry> chatting at church about my dad on fathers day. who passed away jan 2013, so a bit more stressy for that reason too
<directhex> i'm better with public speaking than talking on the phone
<TwistedLucidity> mapps: Don't go to a soeaking club then. :-)
<Myrtti> https://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/tags/engagementring/ - it's got binary engravement and a ruby for geeky reasons :-D
<directhex> god i hate phones
<mapps> heh
<Myrtti> directhex: oh yes.
<Myrtti> phones are the invention of the devil.
<mapps> no
<mapps> i love my iphone ...is that ok to say here?
<Myrtti> (for voice communications)
<foobarry> http://i.imgur.com/AoRr2cV.jpg
<Myrtti> the device itself is fine. The voice communication sucks
<TwistedLucidity> Myrtti: One month's salary >.<
<Myrtti> TwistedLucidity: half.
<mapps> ruby for ruby on rails?
<mapps> nah cant be
<TwistedLucidity> Myrtti: BARGAIN!
<Myrtti> mapps: yeah, he used it as a pickup line
<directhex> i feel trapped by the phone, i hate talking on it
<mapps> what did he say? :)(
<Myrtti> first date he gave me a Vim pocket book as a present, second one I wore a pink emacs cheat sheet t-shirt
<diddledan> I'm fine on the phone provided it's not a machine
<diddledan> answermachines are the invention of the devil!
<Myrtti> "If I'd give you a Ruby, would you throw it back?" I replied "no, but I might slap you with LaTeX"
<diddledan> Myrtti: kinky
<Myrtti> innit
<mapps> LOL
<mapps> ]i assumed you're a guy
<mapps> but judging by the 'he gave me' i guess you're the woman
<Myrtti> one of the invisible pink unicorns yes
<Myrtti> the existance of us is a matter of faith
<mapps> just a habbit..i assume everyone on irc is a guy
<foobarry> i went to oggcamp and there were lots of women, Myrtti was one of them
<mapps> and everyone in a tech/nerd channel deff guy
<mapps> i see
<mapps> its just my own assumptions
<mapps> at uni there was like 2 girls in my lectures
<diddledan> mapps: in modern society it is dangerous to 1) assume X is a guy, 2) assume X and Y are the standard gender roles
<mapps> agree
<foobarry> most women were  flanked by a male geek, looking proud
<mapps> but still what i think a first;p
<mapps> lol
<Myrtti> foobarry: :-D
<Myrtti> snerk.
<mapps> Myrtti,  i guess you do some kind of tech job?
<Myrtti> oggcamp is one of the rare occasions where most people knew me beforehand so knew not to ask me "so who are you here with"
<foobarry> somehow i managed to snag a really hot wife. but thats my own opinion ..and thats all that matters.
<mapps> heh
<diddledan> foobarry: lucky get
<mapps> so what do you all do to be able to come on irc at (i assume work)?
<foobarry> work
<mapps> pah
<mapps> well clearly not on a checkout;p
<diddledan> mapps: I'm working from home
<Myrtti> mapps: open source developer community manager for a school offering education in Finnish equivalents of GCSE/A-levels/community college stuff, most of it online but some as boarding school
<mapps> ahh ok cool diddledan
<foobarry> had a really busy few weeks at work, so this is a bit of downtime so as not to burnout
<mapps> ah
<mapps> working from home sounded cool and i did want it..but I live on my own so i dont think id see anyone
<foobarry> can't maintain the same high work rate without a part failing
<mapps> id be 'the hermit at the end house'
<mapps> :D
<Myrtti> we do development of our own school management system and learning platform
<foobarry> mrs foobarry thinks i would go insannce working at home
<foobarry> insane*
<Myrtti> and yes, I'm working from home in UK to Finland.
<mapps> why?
<mapps> kids/wife foobarry ?
<foobarry> i'm  introvert but i stil like contact
<mapps> yea
<mapps> i guess im the same..im quite happy to go to work and sit in a booh on my own or with my mate
<foobarry> even tho most others annoy me some how in their office habits
<foobarry> open plan sucks
<mapps> and barely move from my booth
<foobarry> booths are cool
<mapps> but working from home id see NOONE
<mapps> yep 100% agree
<foobarry> its just good to know people are there if needed
<mapps> open plan is so so crap..especially with where i work..we all have sport on and its crap have to have the volume low..can hear others audio and then can hear them talking etc
<foobarry> you need occulus rift virtal office app
<diddledan> google talk ftw
<diddledan> though only the text side
<diddledan> http://www.hotforsecurity.com/blog/hacked-restaurant-chain-goes-back-to-the-1970s-to-protect-itself-from-hackers-9248.html
<mapps> im kinda excited for ios8 ..am i the only one:D
<bigcalm> I thought that popey was the Apple fanboi
<mapps> hah
<diddledan> nope that crown goes to shauno
<mapps> i love my iphone..and my ipad :D had the 3gs/4s/5 now got the 5s
<mapps> had the ipad2/3 and now the air :)
<foobarry> i like my hp touchpad..cos i got it cheap
<mapps> i like my nexus7 for the price and fact i can watch films on it that i play of usb
<mapps> but im sold on iphone for sure :)
<mapps> i find android hard work
<diddledan> I'm excited for the ios8 keyboard replacement functionality - maybe lastpass will build an enhanced keyboard which allows password entering without switching apps (like they do on android)
<mapps> not sure what you mean
<mapps> password enterring without switching apps?
<diddledan> on ios you need to switch to the lastpass app, copy the password into the clipboard and then switch back and paste the password from the clipboard (that is unless you're using bad passwords that you can remember)
<mapps> ah
<mapps> i can and am ythen
<diddledan> if you're using a bad enough password that you can remember it then type it manually :-p
<mapps> thats why i was kinda wondering what you meant
<mapps> on an ios related issue...i cant connect to the wifi in the restaurant at thew hotel..full signal and ive got the pass..but it just sits on the enter pass screen doesnt even say incorrect pass?
<diddledan> odd
<mapps> yea no error..nothing so i dont really see what i can do
<diddledan> http://www.hotforsecurity.com/blog/us-government-to-auction-18-million-of-the-silk-roads-bitcoins-9253.html
<bigcalm> sudo: add-apt-repository: command not found
<bigcalm> Well that's a bit silly
<awilkins> Need to install a package
<diddledan> python-softwareproperties?
<diddledan> something like that
<bigcalm> diddledan: aye
<foobarry> somebody gave me a telly, they don't want anything for it , for its a decent telly they could have sold. quandry :S
<bigcalm> Surprised that it's not installed by defaulty
<bigcalm> -y
<foobarry> do u give the full market price as per ebay, or some other abitrary amount
<foobarry> defaulty = something thats broken out of the box?
<diddledan> foobarry: take the thing then run and hide
<foobarry> its from my sis
<foobarry> they didn't need it any more, but could have sold it for Â£100 maybe
<diplo> Just help them out with no questions asked next time they need something?
<foobarry> i do that anyway
<awilkins> If the US gov is auctioning bitcoin, this presumably implies that they consider them a legitimate form of property
<foobarry> is popping 50 quid in their account although they don't want anywthing a bit tight?
<foobarry> wow. 32 inch samsung LED is 219 brand new
<foobarry> 199
<awilkins> Tempting
<foobarry> http://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/tv-dvd-blu-ray/televisions/large-screen-tvs-32-and-over/samsung-ue32f5000-32-led-tv-21255337-pdt.html?gclid=CNao6rmf_r4CFQEUwwod-YcAXw&srcid=198&cmpid=ppc~gg~~~Exact&mctag=gg_goog_7904&s_kwcid=AL!3391!3!50677667244!!!g!81182829924!&ef_id=UsvQCgAAAEV5HFxc:20140616110240:s
<foobarry> stuff is cheap nowadays
<awilkins> I have an old CRT still
<foobarry> so did i
<awilkins> Cost me 4 times that
<awilkins> Now I'm wondering how much 'leccy it consumes
<foobarry> extra Â£15 per year
<foobarry> but you do get heat.
<awilkins> And my MythTV box is ancient
<awilkins> And also energy inefficient
<awilkins> But SD
<foobarry> hidden cost of new telly is the chromecast etc you will inevitably buy
<mapps> seems that way awilkins  how are the auctioning them/
<diddledan> mapps: it looks like a sealed auction
<diddledan> you need to pay 200k$ to be granted the privilege of bidding
<mapps> ah
<mapps> lol
<mapps> really?
<awilkins> As a deposit
<awilkins> Presumably refunded if you don't win
<mapps> still dont think i can manage that:)
<awilkins> If you do win, you get a visit from a black helicopter and a copy of President Obama's autograph
<mapps> i thught it'd be open to all
<awilkins> (on your Gitmo 2 detention certificate)
<mapps> :D
<NET||abuse> hi guys. anyone got opinions on which irc bouncer to use, and what gui to connect to it with?
<NET||abuse> i'm using weechat, but i keep getting into a too many channels to manage with an ncurses interface situation.
<NET||abuse> So i'm resigning to going back to a gui frontend
<Myrtti> I personally would find a gui too cumbersome with a lot of channels :-D
<NET||abuse> but i see bnc and znc as two bouncer options.
<NET||abuse> znc says it's a multiuser system, bnc is a "simple to use" version.
<mapps> hii NET||abuse
<directhex> i use bip as a bouncer
<mapps> xchat? or hexchat is that what the free ones called?
<NET||abuse> mapps: not sure, i've used xchat in the past, but not for a few years now.
<NET||abuse> i've lived in irssi and weechat now for the last 3 years i think.
<mapps> http://www.psybnc.at/
<mapps> psyBNC is ok
<davmor2> NET||abuse: I use irssi as my remote client and connect to it with xchat
<NET||abuse> you can do that too ca't you.
<NET||abuse> weechat or irssi as the bouncer in effect.
<davmor2> NET||abuse: yes you jusr fire up irssi and then do /LOAD proxy http://www.irssi.org/documentation/proxy
<davmor2> works well for me I have 50 channels currently
<davmor2> on multiple networks
<mapps> i just use xchat and leave my machine on 24/7
<NET||abuse> mapps: i've only got a laptop and i work in 3 different locations
<mapps> ah]
<NET||abuse> but i have a digitalocean box which i use as my persistent connection.
<foobarry> ok, i've loaded screen_away
<foobarry> supposed to mark me away if sscreen is detached
<foobarry> can someone test it pls?
<davmor2> NET||abuse: /!\ xchat isn't fond of changing wifi networks so you are best closing it and reopening it
<davmor2> foobarry: test what
<NET||abuse> oh that's not even a concern
<foobarry> davmor2: test if i have an away message
<foobarry> if i detach my screen and you pm me
<foobarry> detaching...
<mapps> GAH
<mapps> STILL cant get this wifi to work
<Myrtti> foobarry: works
<davmor2> mapps: what up
<foobarry> yay thanks
<mapps> not too sure davmor2
<mapps> got the pass for wireless..strong signal but it doesnt connect
<mapps> no error..no incorrect pass just shows me the pass box again
<davmor2> mapps: try forgetting the network and try again
<foobarry> do away mesages work if i even mention a name in a chan?
<davmor2> foobarry: pass
<foobarry> by work, i mean "tell the other person"
<mapps> thats what i did :( then i diud the turn it off and back on
<davmor2> Go away again I'll tell yoou
<mapps> and getting nowhere...cant think what it could be
<davmor2> foobarry: muppet
<davmor2> anyone see an away message I forgot I have them switched off
<foobarry> try again
<foobarry> i wasn't away yet
<davmor2> foobarry: muppet
<foobarry> don't think so
<foobarry> prob not the intended functionality tbh
<foobarry> whois will show the status
<diddledan> I need feeding time
<foobarry> things looking better for schumacher
 * popey pokes bigcalm 
<Myrtti> foobarry: I wouldn't necessarily say that
<Myrtti> just that they're moving him from one hospital to another
<foobarry> he's out of coma though allegedly?
<mapps> schumacher yea
<mapps> communicating with his family it says
<Myrtti> well that's old news to a certain extent
<mapps> wasnt it a monh or so ago papers said he had almost no chance to get out of the coma?
<Myrtti> http://formerf1doc.wordpress.com/2014/06/16/good-news/
<foobarry> my bad for thinking tabloids might even report this 10% accurately
<foobarry> i really should block all tabloid from my internet
<Myrtti> it's not even about tabloids, it's about the fact that the language used in the press release was probably purposefully ambivalent
<foobarry> the quote from the manager " 'Michael has left the CHU Grenoble to continue his long phase of rehabilitation. He is not in a coma anymore.'"
<foobarry> not really sure who i believe now
<Myrtti> not being in a coma doesn't really mean that much though. People can be out of coma but not have awareness of their surroundings
<foobarry> hopefully he is improving
<Myrtti> let's hope so
<MooDoo> popey: is this something you're looking for ? http://lowtek.ca/roo/2012/how-to-add-second-drive-to-luks-ubuntu/
 * bigcalm prods popey 
<popey> nice one MooDoo
<MooDoo> popey: yeah just seen your g+ post, yw!
<MooDoo> rats my dell r200 cpu doesn't support VT pah!
<diplo> Aren't the R range supposed to be designed for Virtual ?
<MooDoo> diplo: not with the process I've got in it.
<diplo> Been a while since I looked at Dell prods mind, they were just coming out as i left
<MooDoo> oh it's at least 6 yrs old
<diplo> :)
<MooDoo> still it works and it's a server at home for me to play with :)
<bigcalm> Yes it's OEL, but where might I find an archive for Karmic?
<popey> old-releases.archive.ubuntu.com
<bigcalm> Oh, it is there. Phew. Thanks
<foobarry> is there a mibbit type app for accessing freenode?
<foobarry> ah, webchat
<MooDoo> http://webchat.freenode.net/
<Myrtti> mibbit, kiwiirc
<Myrtti> eh.
<Myrtti> webchat, kiwiirc
<Myrtti> brain went a gear too fast
<foobarry> didn't mibbit block freenode?
<MooDoo> foobarry: http://blog.mibbit.com/?p=306
<MooDoo> wow 2009 lol oops
<diddledan> I just pointed a colleage at RFC 1216 and RFC 1217
<diddledan> colleague**
<bigcalm> popey: am I going mad? I thought that Karmic was on old-releases.archive.ubuntu.com - now I can't find it
<popey> bigcalm: what are you looking for? an iso?
<bigcalm> A repo
<diddledan> isn't that classed as necrophillia?
<MooDoo> bigcalm: http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1895629.html
<bigcalm> I don't expect ubuntu.com to keep everything forever, I know karmic is EOL
<popey> oh, maybe not
<MooDoo> it's here -
<MooDoo> http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/
<MooDoo> well there is a karmic folder there
 * bigcalm scratches his head
<bigcalm> It is there!
<popey> so basically just edit sources.list and change gb.archive.... to old-releases.ubuntu...
<bigcalm> Humm, the 'archive' in the URL is the killer
<Laney> because old-releases.archive is the wrong host
<popey> my bad, sorry.
<MooDoo> bigcalm: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7653078/
 * bigcalm kicks things
<bigcalm> No worries :)
<MooDoo> can you add this to the sources.list or shoudl I just shut up?
<MooDoo> lol
<bigcalm> MooDoo: hah, thank you. I will be using that :)
<MooDoo> I'm on a roll today, now to install ubuntu server lts and play with nic bonding :)
<diddledan> http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7169
<MooDoo> ok who's applying :) https://ch.tbe.taleo.net/CH03/ats/careers/requisition.jsp?org=CANONICAL&cws=1&rid=851
<foobarry> fred ham
<foobarry> joe cheese
<popey> oooh!
<MooDoo> popey: you going for it.....hint hint
<popey> Don't think that's something I want to comment on.
<MooDoo> hehe
<diddledan> well that's an answer if we want to read into it :-p
<MooDoo> he'd only apply so he can org more sprints in exotic places ;)
<diddledan> hmm, English fluency is a requirement. that puts me out
<diddledan> I don't suppose there'll ever be a need for an idiot incumbant. that would totally suit me
<Laney> you could manage me! https://ch.tbe.taleo.net/CH03/ats/careers/requisition.jsp?org=CANONICAL&cws=1&rid=847
<diddledan> dammit, again with the English fluency! are you all descriminating against me?
<foobarry> yes, because you can't spell discriminating
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> I knew it was wrong because the red squiggles told me so
<foobarry> desirable skills: working in a bedroom or shed
<diddledan> I couldn't be bothered to fix it
<diddledan> ooh I can do that
<Laney> shedroom
<foobarry> will maybe get a shedroom if the extension comes under budget
<daftykins> oh my my, just got paid for a small laptop job in coins
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ypx21iw33wi4hry/IMG_20140616_144857.jpg
<diddledan> oh joy
<diddledan> heavy pocket day
<daftykins> indeed!
<daftykins> just lucky we have our fine Guernsey Â£1 notes
<directhex> british coins?
<directhex> stop stealing our money, foreigner!
<daftykins> what ever do you mean, only that Â£1 coin is yours :>
<daftykins> oh there was an English fiver too
<foobarry> go to sainsburys , buy food, throw it all in the coin tray
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> normally i'd point out we don't have mainlander supermarkets, but my local co-op (different to the UK ones) have those automated tills now \o/
<daftykins> pretty neat being able to get in and out and keep the headphones in, no need for social interaction \o/
<diddledan> gerroff my lawn!
<diddledan> social interaction is for kids
<daftykins> ;)
<foobarry> and needy people
<foobarry> extroverts and the like
<diddledan> once you reach a certain age you wish the whole world would ignore you yet will they ever?!
<diddledan> it would help if they paid you for the privilege of ignoring you
<diddledan> it's amazing the number of people on public transport during rush hour that have headphones jacked-in
<daftykins> indeed
<daftykins> i think there was an image a bit ago that had the past, where people would meet those at the bus stop - then now where everyone's in their own bubble
<diddledan> if I'm doing the rush hour thing then I'm usually one of them too
<daftykins> why would anyone ever commute away from amazingstoke?!
<daftykins> surely it's the place to be
<diddledan> I only go across town - it's about an hour bus ride tho
<daftykins> O_O
<daftykins> that'd be a lap of the island
<diddledan> followed by the dreaded 3/4 mile walk over a huge-ass hill
<foobarry> does it have a big bum crack?
<diddledan> I'm not sure the residents of cliddesden would like their pokey posh-knobs' village referred to as a big bum crack
<davmor2> diddledan: but apparently posh and knob is fine
<daftykins> he's referring to their door dressings
<davmor2> diddledan: I think you mean the la-dee-da residents ....
<diddledan> davmor2: the jolly hockey-stick brigade
<davmor2> haha
<diddledan> the stiff upper lip, what what
<MooDoo> flash by name and flash by nature. huzzah!
<davmor2> HUZZAH!
<diddledan> is that a kayak in my pocket or am I pleased to see you?!
<diddledan> gotta love Bob
<diddledan> and slack bladder's inability to say the name
<MooDoo> diddledan: you mean the bob which is short for kate?
<diddledan> yup
<Myrtti> Bobcats?
<Myrtti> http://theoatmeal.com/comics/bobcats_monday
<Myrtti> bobcats.
<diddledan> apparently the way slack bladder says Bob was entirely by accident because Rowen Atkinson has a speach problem when it comes to B's and Bob having two made him think very hard about how to say it clearly each time he said it resulting the weird delay
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> that's hilarious
<foobarry> i foudn the female bob rather attractive
<diddledan> I'd marry him to prevent his demise into male prostitution
<foobarry> worth a course of leeches
<TwistedLucidity> What's a good tool for editing PDFs? (Extracting pages and masking content)
<foobarry> there's a cli tool for extractig pages
<diddledan> that link, Myrtti , I wonder if there's really a johnson@boydtech.com
<foobarry> and oo draw lets you play with objects on page
<TwistedLucidity> What I need to do is pull one page from my phone bill, and mask private numbers. This is so I can claim company expenses.
<foobarry> export the page as a png using ht ecli tool
<foobarry> pdftk
<TwistedLucidity> Oooo-nice idea
<foobarry> http://askubuntu.com/questions/221962/how-can-i-extract-a-page-range-a-part-of-a-pdf
<foobarry> pdfshuffler is cool
<TwistedLucidity> I used to use something - can't remember what it was for the life of me. Might have been shuffler.
<foobarry> choux-fleur
<Armag3dd0n24> im bored :/
<foobarry> Armag3dd0n24: have you finished reading the internet yet?
<foobarry> the whole internet.
<Armag3dd0n24> yes! twice now. :p
<foobarry> i just saw a new page
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: imagemagick is awesome. "convert -density 300 in.pdf out.png" Spits out as indiviual pages. Just what I want.
<foobarry> computers are awesome*
<foobarry> *when they do good things
<awilkins> Good software is awesome
<tecma> hello
<daftykins> hi
<tecma> hi daftykins
<davmor2> bigcalm: did you figure out how to make irssi-proxy load by default?
<bigcalm> davmor2: how do you mean?
<bigcalm> davmor2: starting irssi to start irssi-proxy?
<bigcalm> If so, yes
<davmor2> bigcalm: yes
<davmor2> bigcalm: as in autostarting irssi-proxy
<Myrtti> echo "load proxy" > .irssi/startup
<bigcalm> echo "/load proxy" >> ~/.irssi/startup
<Myrtti> well, yes.
<Myrtti> bigcalm got it better
 * bigcalm hugs Myrtti
<davmor2> bigcalm: Myrtti: spent ages trying to figure that out.  LOAD proxy is the one that worked for me /LOAD PROXY failed dismally which was the only reference I found online
 * bigcalm shrugs
<bigcalm> it's what is in my ~/.irssi/startup
<Myrtti> well, the proxy thing is a plugin, not a script
<Myrtti> so it needs a bit of extra love
<Myrtti> I'm trying to fight the need to get a nap so bad
<Myrtti> blaar
<mapps> a nap at this time?
<mapps> wont that make it hard to sleep later
<Myrtti> there is a reason why I'm fighting the nap
<mapps> heh
<mapps> some people can have naps and still sleep later..i cant tho bu i only sleep 6-8 hrs a night
<mapps> my friend can sleep for 12-15
<daftykins> i'm like that :/
<mapps> really/
<mapps> ?
<mapps> damn how
<mapps> my friend will go for a nap say 5pm-9pm then skeep 9-10 hrs
<daftykins> sleeping 12hrs straight?
<mapps> yea
<daftykins> oh well i never nap, i consider it wrong
<daftykins> i'm either up or down :>
<daftykins> the only thing that messes with my sleep is the alearm clock effect
<mapps> heh
<daftykins> mapps: did you see my many different disk and SSD benchmark pic? :>
<mapps> nah lets see
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/p59zslb8e7wy9ms/drives.png
<daftykins> HDD, 2 x HDD in RAID 0, then 4 x SSDs
<mapps> will check at ht
<[ENG]mapps> hi
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
<popey> Yo!
<bigcalm> What's happening?
<bigcalm> That much eh?
<foobarry> popey: u know that discussion t'other day about facebook
<foobarry> and commenting on groups
<foobarry> a friend's comment on an open group appeared in my main feed on my phone
<dogmatic69_> Anyone know of a tutorial on setting up a new raid 1 for existsting system?
<popey> foobarry: an open group you're in?
<awilkins> Holy shit. No Man's Sky .... 7 man dev team
<awilkins> Ooops, wrong channel
<awilkins> Apologies for offensive language
<popey> awilkins: I agree though
<popey> it does look amazing
<popey> their trailer is one of the videos I use to test media playback on ubuntu phone â»
<dogmatic69_> this seemed to do the tick with raid, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1687994
<diddledan> oh this isn't going to stir the hornets' nest any: http://www.theguardian.com/money/2014/jun/16/british-public-wrong-rich-poor-tax-research
<Hornet> a wild ping appeared!
<diddledan> Hornet: ponbg
<diddledan> pong*
<awilkins> No Man's Sky reminds me of Outcast, visually
<bigcalm> When merging 2 branches in git and there's a conflict. How would I get it to discard the version in the branch I started with and use the version from the incoming branch?
<diddledan> bigcalm: you would need to resolve the conflicts individually AFAICT
<bigcalm> diddledan: by hand?
<bigcalm> Ho hum
<bigcalm> I might as well just grab the file I want from gitlab
<diddledan> alternatively discard one branch and work off a fork of the other
<awilkins> I use `git mergetool`
<bigcalm> Na, I'm in the process of merging test into master for a deployment tomorrow
<awilkins> My preferred tool is Beyond Compare (one of the few softwares I pay for on Linux)
<diddledan> then the question I have is why has master changed independantly of test?!
<awilkins> Something else merged into it?
<diddledan> so why didn't you merge that something else into test at the same time to remain baseline?!
<bigcalm> diddledan: it was a hot fix that was needed on production but would be replaced when this version was deployed
<diddledan> http://nvie.com/posts/a-successful-git-branching-model/
<bigcalm> I hate live hot fixes
<bigcalm> That image follows what we do already
<diddledan> note the hotfix 0.2 on that chart
<diddledan> the hotfix is applied not only to live BUT ALSO into all future development brances
<diddledan> branches
<bigcalm> The hot fix that was deployed had no use in development
<diddledan> that's besides the point, you still need it to prevent this situation
<bigcalm> Quite so
<diddledan> merge it in and then immediately create a commit which removes it again
<diddledan> this will then maintain the order of activity when you merge a dev branch into live
<diddledan> as it is your dev branch which you're merging has a different baseline to the live branch which causes this kind of issue - following that guide you could have prevented it
<bigcalm> Fair enough
<diddledan> as it is you need to now manually clean up because the merge has thrown a wobbly (otherwise you'd not be asking the question :-)
<diddledan> git does a nice job of highlighting merge conflicts with <<<<< and ====== and >>>>>> delimiters
<diddledan> which also happily break the code if you don't sort them so that it's easy to spot when you go QA
<diddledan> (or if you miss one)
<diddledan> syntax errors are awesome for spotting missed merge conflicts (unless they make it into the live version :-p) ::-)
<dogmatic69_> I made a raid 1 and I cant get it to auto mount or whatever it needs to do on boot.
<dogmatic69_> When I boot I just see the two drives
<diddledan> dogmatic69_: did you do it with a motherboard's raid functionality?
<dogmatic69_> no, softraid
<dogmatic69_> mdadm
<diddledan> then that is indeed odd
<dogmatic69_> ye
<diddledan> fakeraid aka motherboard raid causes that kind of issue - linux has got a lot better at it though over the last few years
<dogmatic69_> basically formatted both drives, made on big ext4 on each, done the mdadm --create and added 'ARRAY /dev/md0 level=raid1 num-devices=2 metadata=1.2 name=optimus-prime:0 UUID=8d21bbe8:37956ed9:16fd12e6:eef7b2f5' to the config
<dogmatic69_> created with: mdadm --create /dev/md0 --level=mirror --raid-devices=2 /dev/sda /dev/sdb
<diddledan> what does `cat /proc/mdstat` say?
<dogmatic69_> md0 : active raid1 sdb[1] sda[0]
<dogmatic69_> md0 : active raid1 sdb[1] sda[0]
<diddledan> then your raid is active
<dogmatic69_> yes, it is
<dogmatic69_> but when I reboot its gone
<dogmatic69_> that /proc/mdstat also says [>....................]  resync =  0.2% (7502336/2930135360) finish=1651.2min speed=29497K/sec
<dogmatic69_> is that good/bad/normal?
<dogmatic69_> idk why its got to sync, both brand new drives
<diddledan> normal - it needs to sync the two discs before it can safely replicate
<dogmatic69_> ok
<dogmatic69_> but restarting at this point should work?
<diddledan> even if that means syncing efectively blank data
<diddledan> it'll only work off one of the drives
<diddledan> but the raid should initialise
<dogmatic69_> hmm
<dogmatic69_> also I added something in fstab
<dogmatic69_> /dev/md0 /raid ext4 defaults,nobootwait 0 2
<bigcalm> /dev/md3	/media/RAID1_3/	auto	defaults	0	0
<dogmatic69_> auto sounds good...
<bigcalm> That's the 2nd raid1 on my home server
<Hornet> anyone used sshfs much? having mental issues trying to get files to move between remove drives. mv as the user in ssh works, but not via sshfs in either nemo or other file managers
<dogmatic69_> oh, that is just ext4/auto
<diddledan> dogmatic69_: is this your root partition or an ancillary data partition?
<dogmatic69_> bigcalm: you know what the 0 0 is?
<dogmatic69_> ancillary
<Hornet> permissions seem right, but it just fails with 'operation not permitted'
<dogmatic69_> got a ssd for boot
<Hornet> well clearly permissions are right, as mv works
<bigcalm> dogmatic69_: never really looked into what it all means, sorry :)
<dogmatic69_> no prob
<dogmatic69_> I coppied this from a tut :/
<diddledan> dogmatic69_: the first 0 is "dump" which is used rarely, and I'm not entirely sure what for but it's advised that your root fs has it as 1, and the second 0 is "pass" which defines the weight of each filesystem for ordering in-boot-time fsck (i.e. before remounting root read-write)
<bigcalm> dogmatic69_: I think I followed https://help.ubuntu.com/12.04/serverguide/advanced-installation.html when I set-up my server the 1st time and then cherry picked some bits when adding my 2nd RAID
<dogmatic69_> diddledan: tx, just found a doc with that :D
<dogmatic69_> bigcalm: ye, this is existing setup so doing it manual
<dogmatic69_> when I boot, I just run the mdadm create and then mount -a and it works again,
<dogmatic69_> seems it just needs to mount
<dogmatic69_> sounds like it could be the nobootwait option I got there
<diddledan> nono, don't run "create" once it's already created
<diddledan> you want to "assemble"
<diddledan> (I think that's the write verb)
<diddledan> right**
<dogmatic69_> I read that
<dogmatic69_> yes, it is --assemble
<dogmatic69_> bigcalm: that 0 at the end of your config disables any disk checks btw
<bigcalm> Tag v1.4.0 successfully pushed to origin, ready for tomorrow's deployment
<diddledan> \o/
<bigcalm> dogmatic69_: I see
<bigcalm> Now I get to compare against tag names, not hash strings I have to hunt for :)
<diddledan> hehe
<diddledan> tags are good!
<diddledan> #hashtag #ftw
 * bigcalm hugs gitlab
<bigcalm> code.client.co.uk/project-foo/compare/v1.3.2.1...v1.4.0
<dogmatic69_> bigcalm: normally you can just use 4 or 5 chars, depending on the number of commits
<bigcalm> dogmatic69_: sure, still a matter of finding them
<dogmatic69_> ye
<bigcalm> Tags are sensible for humans
<dogmatic69_> also, not sure if this would work in the url but does in cli, git diff HEAD~10
<dogmatic69_> compare HEAD to 10 commits back
<dogmatic69_> something like that
<diddledan> time for me to get some shuteye methinks
<bigcalm> Wish I could remember why I opened the diff in gitlab - what was it that I was looking for?
<dogmatic69_> bigcalm: the difference ;)
<bigcalm> :P4
<bigcalm> -4
<bigcalm> I should get a live db dump
<bigcalm> The import might take some time
<dogmatic69_> figured out how to make this sync faster \o/
<dogmatic69_> down from 27 hours to 270 minutes
#ubuntu-uk 2014-06-17
<MooDoo> hello all
<Myrtti> foobarry: for what it's worth, an ex-Ubuntuite did have (don't know if she still does) a Sonata
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> yo
 * popey is enjoying a clean install
<bigcalm> Gave up trying to add full disk encryption to a 2nd drive?
<MooDoo> bigcalm: he sorted it
<bigcalm> Oh
<bigcalm> By doing a clean install? ;)
<MooDoo> I found a url that explained how to do it
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> brobostigon: no, i did it
<brobostigon> huh?
<popey> er bigcalm
<popey> nvm
<popey> alan@deep-thought:~â« df -h | grep map
<popey> /dev/mapper/ubuntu--vg-root  205G  5.3G  189G   3% /
<popey> /dev/mapper/data_crypt       235G   87G  136G  40% /home
<popey> \o/
<bigcalm> Well done
<popey> very happy
<popey> re-installing everything bit by bit
<brobostigon> are the stats still working fine?, i havent managed to check on them recently.
<bigcalm> popey: this will have dire consequences for your uptime ;)
<Myrtti> I'm still pondering would it be safe to nuke the current install on this laptop and install 14.04 on my own
<Myrtti> apparently the new kernel might support the touchpad without much problems
<popey> brobostigon: can you not just click the link?
<popey> bigcalm: actually I'm hoping it will improve it, as I wont have to reboot all the time
<popey> hoping this reinstall magically cures things
<brobostigon> popey: i will, i was just curious also if anybody has used it, within my question.
<bigcalm> Looking at uprecords, seem that I have my machine on for about 15.5 hours each day
<popey>    %up              100.000 | since                     Tue Jun 17 10:03:18 2014
<bigcalm> popey: ah, magic
<popey> \o/
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> Ex-cow-orker has sent me his HP Proliant microserver that is slightly (few years) more recent than my own. Wonder if I can pop the disks out of mine and put them into the new one and have things just work
<popey> lucky you!
<popey> I'm still rocking the old N36L
<directhex> I HAVE A BIG FLUFFY CAT ON MY DESK
<popey> could do with an update
<Myrtti> put a bow on it.
<bigcalm> Update the cat with a bow tie?
<Myrtti> yup
<bigcalm> :)
<bigcalm> popey: I'm thinking of replacing my parents' revo with my now spare proliant
<Myrtti> http://www.boredpanda.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/guinea-pig-booboo-lieveheersbeestje-23.jpg
<awilkins> Bah, was hoping that was a great recipe for South African style guinea-pig biltong
<bashrc> directhex: is that a codephrase?
<directhex> YES. IT MEANS I HAVE A BIG FLUFFY CAT ON MY DESK
<directhex> UNBREAKABLE CODE
<popey> hmm, can't install google talk plugin here
<popey> this is annoying
<popey> the deb installs but chrome doesn't see it
<popey> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 35 Jun  7 23:48 /opt/google/chrome/pepper/libppgoogletalk.so -> ../../talkplugin/libppgoogletalk.so
<popey> exists though
<bigcalm> Chrome or chromium?
<bigcalm> Works for me with chromium
<popey> i _always_ type chrome when I mean chrome, and chromium when I mean chromium â»
<popey> i dont have chromium installed.
<bigcalm> Just checking
<davmor2> popey: Ohhhhh new shinies  have a look at contacts, dialer and messaging
<popey> ooh!
<awilkins> Contacts dialler and messaging for Ubuntu Phone?
<popey> yes
<popey> ffs, broken in chrome and chrome-beta
<bashrc> does it have OTR?
<popey> eh?
<awilkins> Off The Record
<awilkins> ?
<popey> no, "it"
<bashrc> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Off-the-Record_Messaging
<Myrtti> which it?
<bashrc> messaging for ubuntu phone
<popey> its SMS, not messengering app
<bashrc> ah
<popey> \o/ working in chrome-unstable
<popey> well thats 30 mins of my life I'll never get back. jeez
<dwatkins> I think it's time I took the plunge and got an SSD for my main machine at home
<bigcalm> SSD all the things
<dwatkins> indeed, bigcalm
<popey> \o/ SSD
<popey> i was tempted to RAID0 the two SSDs in my laptop, but figured that might be overkill â»
<dwatkins> Crucial drives seem to be on offer on Amazon, is there any reason I should avoid them?
<funkyHat> Super Silly Disk
<popey> they have had a bad reputation in the past
<funkyHat> Seriously Spurious Data
<dwatkins> A colleague of mine put SSDs in a RAID array when they first came out, the drives lasted 9 months of constant reading and writing.
<popey> Super Speedy Data-transfer
<dwatkins> Crucial get good reviews.
<directhex> the M4 series of crucial drives had a bad firmware
<dwatkins> M500 is what I'm looking at (960 GB)
<popey> i have an M4 in my laptop â¨
<dwatkins> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Crucial-CT960M500SSD1-960GB-Internal-Solid/dp/B00BQ8RGL6/
<popey> Device Model:     OCZ-VERTEX3
<popey> Device Model:     M4-CT256M4SSD3
<Laney> hrm
<Laney> looks like bigger SSDs are becoming affordable
<dwatkins> indeed, Laney
<funkyHat> Somewhat Sarcastic Description
<popey> heh, never noticed "Rotation Rate:    Solid State Device"
<Laney> that's nice
<Laney> I had yet another ENOSPC yesterday
<directhex> M4 is fixed by recent firmware
<directhex> OCZ never really fixed the firmware on drives before vertex 4
<popey> nice, smartmontools tells me where to get it!
<Laney> "pop down to your local argos"
<dwatkins> well, we shall see how it performs, SSD ordered
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7657848/
<popey> cock, needs windows
<popey> no updates for me then
<MooDoo> 5184 hours lol
<mgdm> Rotation rate: â
<popey> ooh, can be done on a usb stick
<MooDoo> so as long as you reboot ever 215 days, you'll be ok :)
<dwatkins> not even a DOS installer... oh cool
<funkyHat> I should get a Solid Stake Disk for my PC really
<funkyHat> Still wouldn't be as fast as the laptop though â¢(
<popey> fancy that, their firmware thing uses isolinux
<popey> thanks for the tip directhex, will do that later when i next reboot
<directhex> the m4 bug is once it hits 5200 hours of uptime (iirc), the drive restarts instead of incrementing to 5201, every time
<directhex> sorry, google says it's 5184 hours
<bigcalm> popey: do you remember what that one liner was to generate an epenis measurement?
<popey> I have no idea what you're talking about â»
<bigcalm> :|
<bigcalm> Bother. Can't google the irc logs well enough
<bigcalm> Just wanted to measure the performance between current proliant and the one I'm about to replace it with
<bigcalm> bogomips	: 6784.93
<bigcalm> That'll have to do
<Myrtti> aw
<Myrtti> just when I found the script he meant
<Laney> link?
<Myrtti> http://ham.zmailer.org/oh2mqk/vpenis.pl I think
<Laney> 36.1cm :(
<Laney> grrrrifferzzzzzzz
<foobarry> got a quote for my extension = Â£28.5k :(
<foobarry> how realistic is the first quote from a builder?
<diplo> foobarry, I'd say you need at least 2, maybe 3 quotes to get a general idea
<diplo> I know a couple of builders, they rarely rebid if someone comes in cheaper as business is tight they go in at their best first time
<diplo> To try and win the job
<diplo> If you get a ovepriced quote ( this is what my builder does ) is because they don't want the work and make it more expensive, if someone still wants it done theyre quids in, if not they didn't want it in the first place :)
<awilkins> They can probably subcontract it to someone else too if they overprice it and genuinely can't do the work because of load.
<awilkins> I'm sure they all know each others rates and scratch each others backs
<diplo> czajkowski, Just saw your tweet, don't you have issues with seeing the screen
<diplo> I keep debating moving outside
<awilkins> Just had a lovely repeatable Xorg crash from using rdesktop
<diplo> Not so sure, my neighbour reckons it's free for all
<diplo> Fell out with some of his friends over pricing
<awilkins> But I'm stuck behind a firewall and don't think apport uploaded it
<awilkins> Have changed to Remmina for the time being since I need to do the thing that provoked the crash again
<awilkins> But I dislike Remmina since it's not as flexible as rdesktop for my needs (even if rdesktop is now obsolescent because it doesn't do NLA)
<czajkowski> diplo: nope cna see it just fine
<diplo> Hmm, may drag my lappy out later and give it a go
<czajkowski> current work set up :) https://twitter.com/czajkowski/status/478871378935177216/photo/1
<czajkowski> nice to get fresh air and some sunshine
<popey> 633.1cm
<bigcalm> bogomips	: 4392.76
<bigcalm> Haha
<bigcalm> It's gone down
<bigcalm> More RAM though
<bigcalm> Might be an on-demand thing
 * bigcalm goes to lunch
<bigcalm> System survived moving the 4 HDDs from one machine to the other
<awilkins> bogomips are vulnerable to CPU scaling, no?
<bigcalm> Except that eth0 moved to eth1
<bigcalm> That confused me for a while
<bigcalm> awilkins: indeed
<dwatkins> I remember having to find out how to tie an ethX number to a specific MAC address many years ago.
<Myrtti> bigcalm: right when you left I was about to paste this to you: http://ham.zmailer.org/oh2mqk/vpenis.pl
 * awilkins has a mere 316.1cm
<dwatkins> Four foot eight and a quarter.
<bigcalm> Myrtti: that's the one, thanks :)
<bigcalm> Bit more than a one liner then :)
<TwistedLucidity> Unfortunate link.
<foobarry> directhex: still use your touhcpad?
<directhex> foobarry, sold it a while ago
<foobarry> :P
<foobarry> trying to use the tptoolbox that removes webos
<daftykins> foobarry: ##cyanogenmod-touchpad
<daftykins> i own one too
<daftykins> oops, single #
<foobarry> thanks, i was in the wrong chan
<daftykins> it's pretty idle but the main guys are around at times
<NET||abuse> boy oh boy, i'm somewhat upset that sublime text is just not moving anywhere. i said i would give it till june, welll, it's here now
<NET||abuse> I see more adn more plugins putting "holding development until sublime's abondonware status is resolved" notices on their github pages
<dwatkins> there's always Brackets
<NET||abuse> I think i'll still use sublime, until i find something better, but i would also like to identify an alternative
<NET||abuse> Brackets... hmmm
<dwatkins> http://brackets.io/
<directhex> edlin
<mgdm> ed
<directhex> edd the duck
<mgdm> ed is the standard editor. what more reason do you need? http://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed-msg.html
<mgdm> though linking to anything in 'fun' on gnu.org makes me wonder slightly :-)
<bigcalm> That's depressing
<foobarry> anyone ever used claycrete?
<foobarry> instant papier mache
<foobarry> a bit like smash mash
<bigcalm> o.O
<NET||abuse> hmm, Atom and Brackets seems to be the two choices out there.
<popey> sublime is abandoned?
<NET||abuse> popey: well,, we dont know for sure,
<NET||abuse> last beta release for ST3 is Dec 2013, last ST2 is over a year now.
<NET||abuse> last communication from jon is Dec 2013, last communication from his sales guy is march
<NET||abuse> they said it isn't over,, but they've not done anything in so long, most plugin dev's are walking away until some kind of update is forthcoming
<NET||abuse> there is also limetext,
<MartijnVdS> I have vim with "vim-airline" these days
<NET||abuse> a straight golang clone of sublime, but not feature complete by the sounds of it.
<MartijnVdS> https://github.com/bling/vim-airline
<bigcalm> Security Deposit Charging Incorrectly
<bigcalm> Humm, bad middle mouse button, bad
<bigcalm> Actually, I think there's something wrong with pasting into Chromium
<bigcalm> A tab will freeze up if I try to paste into an input box. But this appears to happen inconsistently
<NET||abuse> that is mental, i've never managed to get a grip on the vim plugin managers
<NET||abuse> ^^ refering to vim-airline
<bigcalm> A thing of beauty http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/IMG_1481-Version-2-980x517.jpg
<DJones> Nice storagae box for your spare parts :)
<diddledan> morning
<diddledan> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/vocore-a-coin-sized-linux-computer-with-wifi
<daftykins> ali1234: remember that red Sony laptop motherboard with the blown MOSFET I showed you?
<ali1234> sure
<daftykins> diddledan hey, you may remember it too
<diddledan> yup
<daftykins> so i got the board back today, Â£35 charge to do the solder job
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/gewunyzpgintm95/IMG-20140617-WA0001.jpg
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> she lives \o/
<diddledan> ooh, windows. awesome!
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> i even managed to glue the built-in speaker connections as i had accidentally broken them on doing the disassemble
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/awbs5f5re7b5nbf/IMG_20140617_180723.jpg
<daftykins> they are so tiny >_<
<ali1234> so did they do a good job for Â£35?
<diddledan> nice
<daftykins> yeah, the new MOSFET was perfectly laid out
<daftykins> i had a quick glance before i paid for it
<daftykins> it seems the mouse buttons aren't working on the palmrest right now, but other than that the whole machine is back solid... i even stress tested it
<daftykins> in fact, i first booted ubuntu 14.04 but i couldn't find the package cpuburn anymore... perhaps the live session just doesn't have universe enabled
<ali1234> for Â£35 not including any shipping or parts you should absolutely expect it to look like new
<daftykins> yeah it was a pretty steep quote really
<daftykins> but i didn't have many options
<ali1234> Â£35 is reasonable if they do a proper rework job
<ali1234> but they'd better actually do that for that price :)
<daftykins> they had it easy, as i took the board in already disassembled
<daftykins> in fact i have a shot of what i took in
<ali1234> yeah seen it
<daftykins> oh this one? https://www.dropbox.com/s/s1cvcal0tjkfpor/IMG_20140609_154414.jpg
<daftykins> i made it quite obvious which bit was busted ;)
<ali1234> this guy does repair videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZlc6tiL1gk
<ali1234> given the size of the part i'd expect them to do as good a job as that for the price
<diddledan> ali1234: that shipping package is evil
<daftykins> haha
<shauno> hah, that's pretty bad
<shauno> and pretty much the opposite of what I'm getting used to - they seem to send me everything in esd bags, whether it needs it or not
<jussi> sigh....
<jussi> it didnt work, and its all my fault :(
<jussi> serves me right for attempting to repair hardware...
<daftykins> jussi: what've you been dealing with?
<daftykins> this video is interesting, i had no idea this kinda gear is used
<jussi> daftykins: I tried to replace the glass on my note 2. accidentally cut the ribbon cable
<diddledan> daftykins: that gear is totally OTT for that kind of chip
<diddledan> daftykins: really that kind of gear is for BGAs
<ali1234> daftykins: his amiga repair videos are good too
<diddledan> it does make removing a chip nice and easy tho
<daftykins> diddledan: ah reflowing gear
<daftykins> ?
<daftykins> i don't even have a clue what flux is
<daftykins> nor why he applied it prior to removing the old chip
<jussi> daftykins: so the phone works, everything is perfect, except the bottom 3rd of the screen is non responsive :(
<diddledan> applying flux before soldering the chip onto the board will cause the solder to not bridge as easily with nearby solder - i.e. it'll only apply to each pin and it's pad
<ali1234> yeah cos he's going to drag solder it. without flux it would just solder every pin together into a huge blog
<daftykins> jussi: :( is it expensive to get another?
<jussi> daftykins: means I nees to replace whole screen... about 140â¬
<diddledan> wow, he repairing a TV?!
<diddledan> I missed the viera mentino in the title
<daftykins> that vid was neat :) glad he showed the result
<daftykins> jussi: :(
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/cxep07nl4dsn6e9/battery.png
<daftykins> love my laptop :)
<diddledan> wow
<popey> "Cool stuff but Unity doesn't look professional or attractive to businesses in my opinion.
<popey> They could sell it better and shorten the training a bit if they focused on something like XFCE or any other desktop environment that is productivity oriented."
<popey> lol.
<daftykins> hehe
<ali1234> yeah, very true
<d3ngar> Hi, I'm experiencing problems with my Amazon EC2 instance. After updating it's no longer booting up.
<d3ngar> The server log points to this: xc_dom_probe_bzimage_kernel: kernel is not a bzImage
<d3ngar> Googling this brought up some results, but I do not understand them
<diddledan> d3ngar: that's more an amazon question than an ubuntu one - but I believe you can specify the kernel to use in the admin console
<diddledan> WHEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeee
<diddledan> don't you love when canonical employees do webcasts about ubuntu tech, but they're running OS X?
<diddledan> I'm watching this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJPdH8xmOWg
<diddledan> in, out, in, out, shake those users all about
<popey> diddledan: meh, works both ways. I met a guy from Red Hat who ran Ubuntu on his laptop â»
<diddledan> popey: lol
<diddledan> popey: luckily I was only trollin' :-p
<popey> â»
<popey> i know a few canonical people run osx
<popey> mainly because they like nice hardware and osx works really nicely on apple kit
<popey> most run ubuntu in vmware or parallels
<diddledan> popey: obviously canonical is a company with varied users and varied projects besides the os so it makes sense that there's a variety of systems in use
<popey> well, also, a major factor is people buy their own kit
<diddledan> aah
<popey> the company doesn't provide machines, so people buy whatever they want and support themselves
<diddledan> that makes sense
<diddledan> I like the concept of BYOD
<popey> yeah
<popey> although you look around at a canonical sprint and you see many of the same machines
<diddledan> I've seen reports that most linuxy events have a large percentage of apple gear represented
<diddledan> it's well built equipment
<diddledan> persoanally I run an apple laptop, too
<diddledan> http://www.imdb.com/rg/s/3/title/tt1109624/?ref_=ext_shr_fb_vi#lb-vi3550981145 <-- paddington
<psichas> sveiki
<daftykins> ?
<psichas> srry
<diddledan> http://grahamcluley.com/2014/06/truecrypt-hidden-message/
#ubuntu-uk 2014-06-18
<MooDoo> hello all
<Myrtti> moin
 * nigelb yawns
 * diddledan agrees
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning diplo
<diplo> How's things MooDoo ?
<MooDoo> diplo: yeah ok thanks, madness to be up this early, but I'm cracking on with things.
<diplo> Early?!?
<MooDoo> diplo: ok not so much now, but was as work for 6:30
<Myrtti> oh man.
<Myrtti> meh
<nigelb> I was up at 0550. Not sure what I did after that. Only started work at 0900.
<diplo> Ah right, I was awake at 6 but don't start till 8
<DJones> 10 days off and I come back to 100 emails, at least looks like 80% of them are spam
<awilkins> Workspam or spamspam?
<DJones> monty python spam
<diplo> 100 emails in 10 days, that's really not that bad
<DJones> mostly viagra, other medication & "build your website & online presence" spam
<awilkins> I remember the days of a  < 1 ham to spam ratio
<awilkins> I thought this was a conquered problem, but clearly not for private email systems
<awilkins> I guess it's something easier to solve at a larger scale. Both the email systems I interact with have a large number of users (NHS mail, around 1 million, and GMail, billions, I expect)
<DJones> Yeah, I use 3 email accounts at work, a gmail one which gets 0 spam, an accounts@work address which gets 2-3 spam per week and and enquiries@work address which gets 5-10 spam a day, the last two are on a small work related domain
<awilkins> GMail leverages a vast spam identification engine of terrible power, of course (billions of users clicking "this is spam")
<dwatkins> I saw this on slashdot yesterday, it might be quite an interesting read: https://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?doid=2590296.2590302
<dwatkins> "The Harvester, the Botmaster, and the Spammer: On the Relations Between the Different Actors in the Spam Landscape"
<dwatkins> It always baffles me when I get spam without a link in it.
<bashrc> morning
<diplo>  I'd love a way to use Gmail spam engine and pay a small fee
<dwatkins> diplo: you can have gmail forward all mail to another account, and thus use it as a spam filter
<diplo> Yeah I mean connect postfix/qmail etc from our company email via their spam servers, they do such a good job at it
<diplo> Like BitFolk offer remote spam servers
<dwatkins> yeah, I imagine if you use their mail servers for your corporate mail, the spam blocking is quite effective
<dwatkins> we use postini, it seems to work reasonably well
<DJones> Ooh, found a spam for a new voicemail, click this link to listen "http://en8jmq93pm.ljygoyh.com/*********".... Yeah as if that looks like a safe and well known domain
<diplo> dwatkins, is it easy to integrate to mta's ?
<dwatkins> no idea, diplo - I didn't do the integration
<diplo> postini that is, isn't that owned by google now anyway? I may have remember wrong
<diplo> Ah ok
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy International Panic Day! :-D
<awilkins> What are we panicing about?
<awilkins> Ah well, it will be a great meeting icebreaker
<dwatkins> spam?
<awilkins> It being International Panic Day
<awilkins> Who decides these things?
<awilkins> Is there a committee that gets together and decides that a given day will be devoted to Panic (and picnics).
<awilkins> Picnic Day sounds much nicer
<awilkins> I may find a scotch egg and go and eat it by the river
<bashrc> is there an ubuntu day?
<dwatkins> there was in 2012
<awilkins> Only reference I can find is a video of Desmond Tutu supporting a National uBuntu Day in SA
<dwatkins> https://www.facebook.com/events/424963100880647/?ref=5
<dwatkins> 'Ubuntu: 'I am because we are' in Swahili. A day to celebrate youth leadership with our friends from Maai Mahiu, Kenya.'
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> yo
<bigcalm> ho ho and a bottle of rum
<davmor2> bigcalm: oh is it international talk like a pirate day then :P
<dwatkins> it's September already?
 * Myrtti does a sensible chuckle
<Myrtti> http://entertainment.guardianoffers.co.uk/i-dd-rm001699/g-c-h-q-always-listening-to-our-customers/
<dwatkins> nice, Myrtti
<nigelb> 23
<nigelb> (gah)
<foobarry> ed balls
 * dwatkins is in beepy hell with really cheap hold music which can only play one note at a time
<dwatkins> The circuit that makes this music is probably less expensive than my lunch
<foobarry> greensleeves
<dwatkins> surprisingly not, foobarry - I don't recognise the tune
<dwatkins> it has 20 notes, though
<selinuxium> morning all  o/
<selinuxium> Having an issue with Trusty... ran    sudo apt-get install build-essential linux-header-$(uname -r)     and got    Unable to locate package linux-header-3.13.0-27-generic
<selinuxium> Doh...
<selinuxium> linux-headers-$(uname -r)   missed the 's'
<selinuxium> Quiet in here today?
<bigcalm> Shhhh
<Myrtti> ssssshhhhh
<selinuxium> *creeps quietly into a corner*
<popey> heh
<MooDoo> selinuxium: tumbleweed.popey.com
<selinuxium> :)     (smiling is quiet - no LOL here)
 * foobarry pulls a book off the shelf and peruses quietly
<mapps> hey LL
<mapps> ALL
<mapps> back in uk.and my sky routers here:D gotta go collect it in a min..so fibre soon yay
<MooDoo> czajkowski: just seen a tweet you're involved with re mongodb meetup :)
<czajkowski> I am indeed
<mgdm> czajkowski: OH
<mgdm> czajkowski: I owe you an email about that, don't I
<czajkowski> mgdm: indeed :)
<czajkowski> but tis ok I know you're busy
<mgdm> czajkowski: writing it now ;-)
<mgdm> czajkowski: (PM your email again?)
<czajkowski> first dot surname at the place I work dot com :)
<mgdm> nae bother
<bigcalm> I hope somebody does a talk on mongodb at oggcamp so that I can find out if I should actually use it or not
<mgdm> There'll probably be one at PHPNW... :P
 * bigcalm tuts
 * bigcalm pouts
 * bigcalm wants to go to both!
 * mgdm got his ticket for PHPNW yesterday \o/
<bigcalm> I'll miss seeing you in a kilt and Jen in top hat and tails
<mgdm> :D
<bashrc> afaik mongodb doesn't run well on ARM
<Myrtti> I have now seen it all. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwX0mhPfE-g
<Myrtti> Boris and Paxman on a tandem bicycle
<bashrc> the establishment at leisure
<bigcalm> That's amazing
<Armag3dd0n24> I like eggs.
<bigcalm> I can imagine them being drinking buddies
<dwatkins> Shouldn't Boris be on a Boris Bike?
<bigcalm> You mean a Ken Bike?
<dwatkins> that too
<bigcalm> ;)
<bigcalm> Sorry, just being a pita
<daftykins> just re-done the thermal interface material on that red Sony
<daftykins> hitting 70 deg C max load with an i5 2410M
<daftykins> so the only thing that doesn't work... is the right mouse button
<daftykins> i'm sure someone with a multimeter and some patience could isolate that fault, but i'm not going to go that far :>
<shauno> just put osx on it and they won't need that button ;)
<daftykins> i always use right click on macs ;_:
<dogmatic69_> How can I make all the home folders move? is it best to just mount something to /home
<daftykins> what are you trying to do?
 * daftykins nudges dogmatic69_ 
<dogmatic69_> daftykins: I got a new shiny raid with 3TB of space, and a SSD (which currently has /home) complaining that its full
<daftykins> ah right
<dogmatic69_> so, need to move /home -> /raid/HomeDir
<daftykins> that's an idea, but the best way to handle an SSD is a little different
<dogmatic69_> my raid is mounted to /raid
<dogmatic69_> why would ssd be different?
<daftykins> instead of moving the entire /home, be aware that your software configs are in ~/.config and so on as well, so leaving them on the SSD would be best
<daftykins> so instead, make /raid/username then move all your folders of data, e.g. music, documents, pictures over
<daftykins> then symlink those folders back to /home/username/
<dogmatic69_> I see, for speed... well raid 1 should be pretty snappy
<daftykins> hehe, nowhere near as good as SSD
<dogmatic69_> ye, I have done that a bit, but now my ~/Downloads is 20gb
<dogmatic69_> ssd is 60 :/
<daftykins> so move that to /raid/username too and then symlink it back so it still looks like it's in /home/username/
<dogmatic69_> ok
<dogmatic69_> symlinks are pretty good at staying put?
<dogmatic69_> dont want to make a bunch and they keep disappearing
<daftykins> they're permanent yes
<dogmatic69_> daftykins: what about swap?
<dogmatic69_> i just upgraded to 16gb ram, currently have 8gb swap on the ssd
<daftykins> depends if you ever use sleep or hibernate i guess
<dogmatic69_> nope, just on or off
<daftykins> probably no reason to change that then
<dogmatic69_> ok
<dogmatic69_> ok, sound on my new mobo is crappy :/
<dogmatic69_> Realtek ALC1150
<dogmatic69_> bug 1330546
<lubotu3> bug 1321421 in linux (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1330546 8086:8ca0 Sound output distorted/unusable with Intel Z97/H97" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1321421
#ubuntu-uk 2014-06-19
<MooDoo> morning all
<knightwise> morning everyone
<Myrtti> morn
<dwatkins> allo allo
<TwistedLucidity> dwatkins: Weell you say dix only wance?
<dwatkins> listen very carefully
<MooDoo> I shall say thig only wernce ;)
<dwatkins> I won't quote the guy with the terrible accent ;)
<TwistedLucidity> I waz jist pissing by
<dwatkins> Productivity increases significantly across Europe, as Facebook goes down...
<MooDoo> or stops it even more with people pressing refresh :D
<MooDoo> https://plus.google.com/u/0/+PaulMellors    just in case you've forgotten what I look like with FB being down lol
<jpds> http://www.buzzfeed.com/lukelewis/37-things-only-british-people-will-find-amusing
<dwatkins> MooDoo: that's you?
 * dwatkins adds MooDoo 
<MooDoo> dwatkins: if I owe you anything ...no no it's not, if I don't then yes it's me :D
<dwatkins> MooDoo: hehe, no debts outstanding
<dwatkins> http://www.product-reviews.net/2014/06/19/facebook-down-today-not-working-say-users/
<MooDoo> dwatkins: adobe?
<dwatkins> MooDoo: yeah
<MooDoo> dwatkins: cool, watched the live stream last night adobe 2014 release
<dwatkins> yeah, lots of updates
<MooDoo> dwatkins: need to upgrade my version tonight, liking the look of the new blur features.
<foobarry> how can i regain ops in a channel i made?
<foobarry> i lost it and there's no ops. (freenode)
<MooDoo>  foobarry is it registered to you?
<foobarry> no .. i was getting round to that
<foobarry> now i can't register it because i'm not ops
<foobarry> and there's ppl in there
<MooDoo> you can't then untill everyone leaves the channel and you re-open it
<foobarry> ok meh
<foobarry> should be ok
<Myrtti_> I was just reading buzzfeed about 37 things only Britons can find funny
<Myrtti_> and almost choked on my toastie
<Myrtti_> http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/2014-06/17/6/enhanced/webdr07/enhanced-6446-1403000460-1.png
<TwistedLucidity> "fell under the breaks". Really?
<Myrtti_> oh crikey these are awful
<Myrtti_> some are definitely NSFW
<TwistedLucidity> NSFW toasties?
<Myrtti_> "hospital dash for Steve after corn snack binge"
<ali1234> badgers?
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Juneteenth and happy Sauntering Day! :-D
<awilkins> I think I preferred Panic Day
<TwistedLucidity> JamesTait: Happy Setting Orange, the 24th day of Confusion
<JamesTait> TwistedLucidity, only the 24th?  I'm sure I've been confused for longer than that.  Or maybe I'm just confusing dates....
<TwistedLucidity> Open terminal, run: ddate
<popey> Morning all
<popey> What a lovely day
<daubers> Morning popey!
<daubers> It's a horrid day for vampires
<TwistedLucidity> popey: Not if you are a facebook network engineer it isn't
<awilkins> What happened to Facebook?
<MooDoo> it went down for about 30 mins the world  blew up
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<awilkins> Oh dear. I'm so sad.
<popey> meh
<popey> probably the 20 pictures I uploaded last night, must be â»
<awilkins> I see their new intelligence gathering effort is to promote people to gather more visual intelligence
<awilkins> ie - that new Snapchat app where you pay to see your friends astounding pictures by uploading your own
<MooDoo> I guess they must have just installed their steganography code into FB this morning then which is why  it went down ;)
<awilkins> The notion that Facebook is somehow not a joint venture of NSA / GCHQ continues to be eroded
<jpds> awilkins: You're suggesting Facebook are doing a truecrypt?
 * awilkins waves at the SigInt techs monitoring this channel
<awilkins> jpds, Naah, I don't think Facebook ever had any kind of notion of privacy, unlike TC devs
<awilkins> Facebook ENCOURAGE you to give them more intelligence.... "Mark your friends in these photos! (to train our facial recogniser)"    "Enjoy our new app that only lets you see your friends photos if you upload your own! (so we can increase the amount of photos we can process - we delete them all, promise! After we store all the metadata!)"
<ali1234> if two people each have a secret number, is it possible for them to compute the bitwise-AND of their numbers, without either of them revealing their number to the other, and without a trusted third party?
<foobarry> somebody coding in mono on the HPC cluster :S
<foobarry> ali1234: sounds like you need a computationally difficult hash key too?
<directhex> foobarry, there are worse things
<directhex> foobarry, like matlab
<foobarry> no, matlab is better for HPC
<foobarry> well it lets users easily do things on the cluster ..
<foobarry> and can use GPUs too
<ali1234> hmm ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anonymous_veto_network
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> Morning
<TwistedLucidity> That's a bit discriminatory.
<TwistedLucidity> http://www.cscyphers.com/blog/2012/06/28/falsehoods-programmers-believe-about-gender/ :-)
<ali1234> TwistedLucidity: i don't understand the last point
<ali1234> why does it link to a PDF about fish stocks?
<TwistedLucidity> ali1234: An example of non-human genders?
<ali1234> do catfish have different genders to humans?
<TwistedLucidity> Although I see no listing of any kind of gender
<TwistedLucidity> Amphibians would have been better - some can change theirs
<dwatkins> Give it time, and we'll be able to do that.
<TwistedLucidity> All the examples in that "series" are basically failing to consider the possibility of edge cases. Everything gets complicated when you look hard enough, but after a certain point you can consider those cases to be beyond scope.
<TwistedLucidity> e.g. M/F is prolly good enough for general use, but not for a medical context.
<Myrtti> some doggies for lunchtime: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3Gl6T0CC2I and https://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_1264266791&feature=iv&src_vid=s3Gl6T0CC2I&v=VEQXeLjY9ak
<TwistedLucidity> Myrtti: The mongrel is now very confused
<foobarry> mini bars bars after eating blue extra cheqing gum are super tasty
<foobarry> hint of mint
<dwatkins> mini mint bars
<davmor2> bigcalm: oh looks like virgin gave me an update last night  http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/3573241141 :)
<foobarry> mars not bars
<popey> davmor2: yay
<popey> http://www.speedtest.net/result/3573245761.png
<popey> amusingly the _difference_ between your speed and mine is faster than I ever got on ADSL â»
<davmor2> popey: I got a few browser open maybe :D  You know when chromium looks like a castle at the top rather than a browser and it has to expand the tab to fit the close x in :)
<popey> I have been reigning in my tab usage
<MartijnVdS> *gasp*
<Myrtti> I honestly didn't know one can get a bruise on the sole of foot
<bigcalm> Treading on lego?
<bigcalm> davmor2: lucky man, I'm still stuck down here http://www.speedtest.net/result/3573256499.png
<Myrtti> I stepped on a teapot shard we had missed to clean up and it lodged into my foot. Plenty of blood, lightheadedness, pain and inarticulate screming, panic sweats and tears.
<Myrtti> this was yesterday
<bigcalm> And I'll drop to a lower speed once I move to FTTC. But upload will be waaaaaaaaaaaaay faster
<davmor2> popey: I opened every app in the apps queue and am slowly working through them there were a few.  About 10 tabs ago I finally got it so the tabs didn't move off the edge of the screen :)
<davmor2> popey: and that is only Browser 1 there are then 2 other Chromium browser windows and 2 Firefox ones too :)
<ali1234> the ink cartridge refilling went perfectly
<ali1234> i didn't dye blue anything except my hands a bit
 * awilkins boos ink cartridges
<awilkins> I became a Laser Printer person and feel much better for it
<ali1234> yeah we had this discussion already. some things you can't do with a laser like photos
<MartijnVdS> you can do them fine
<MartijnVdS> not great
<MartijnVdS> but fine
<davmor2> ali1234: depends on that laser printer.  There are some very expensive ones that do a wonderful job of printing pictures :)
<JohnRobert> hello
<foobarry> do most childminders accept childcare vouchers?
<foobarry> registered ones
<davmor2> foobarry: up to the childminder I guess
<diplo> foobarry, depends who they're registered with from memory
<diplo> Been a few years for me now
<foobarry> is it socially acceptable or aanoying
<foobarry> we only do 1 day a week but paying less would be nice
<diplo> Acceptable and expected at the 2 nurseries we used, a lot of people used them
<diplo> my ex used to work for one
<foobarry> its a childminder from home
<foobarry> works from home
<diplo> Sorry was on the phone, foobarry - I'd just ask her if she is registered if she supports them.
<diplo> Easiest way, if she wants the business, she'll get the money back from the goverment
<foobarry> yeah
<dogmatic69> I am running incron with a root file that should be executing a file but I get permission denied. Any idea why root can not execute a file?
<dogmatic69> this is from syslog http://pastebin.com/c3vXtKjk
<awilkins> dogmatic69, at a guess, the file doesn't have the x bit set
<dogmatic69> awilkins:  its being sourced
<awilkins> dogmatic69, You mean it's in a VCS?
<dogmatic69> (. /foo/bar/script.sh)
<awilkins> Ah
<dogmatic69> and the actual script is just doing things like "composer update"
<dogmatic69> I can source the file as root, but its only when "root" does it through incron it seems
<bigcalm> directhex: Mirror's Edge in flash sale for Â£2.49?
<popey> oooh steam sale!
 * bigcalm grabs Mirror's Edge and Beatbuddy
<bigcalm> For a grand total of Â£3.88
<bigcalm> Disk space available: 5404 MB
<bigcalm> Um. Oops :)
<bigcalm> Time to buy a larger SSD
<popey> or delete something?
<bigcalm> Filesystem                   Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
<bigcalm> /dev/sdb1                     51G   44G  4.5G  91% /
<bigcalm> Delete what? It's only a little 'un
<bigcalm> I should set-up a dedicated gaming machine
<bigcalm> Maybe once I've moved house
<diddledan> mornin
<ali1234> all the good games don't run on linux :(
<diddledan> steam stream ftw
<diddledan> stick a *cough*dows*cough* box in a cupboard with a meaty gfx and play games on your lappy with integrated gfx at max settings
<ali1234> but i don't want to
<directhex> bigcalm, i love ME, but it's not for everyone
<directhex> ali1234, xcom released today & is excellent
<directhex> and civ5 a week or two ago
<ali1234> not really bothered about xcom, i can just play openxcom instead and it's better
<popey> blimey, didnt know about openxcom
<ali1234> they released 1.0 about a week ago
<popey> has gollup spoken about it?
<ali1234> i've played it through t completion and found two bugs, which they fixed before release
<popey> seems a bit cheeky ripping off the gfx
<ali1234> you need to get the game files yourself
<popey> ah okay
<ali1234> i believe it works with the version on steam
<ali1234> they fixed all the bugs and annoying things too. like openxcom remembers your loadouts so you don't have to equip everyone at the start of every mission
<ali1234> and objects stack on the floor, and there's no 80 item limit bug where everyone has a rifle and no ammo
<MartijnVdS> Steam sale!
<diddledan> WHEEEEEEE
<daftykins> i received a processor today!
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: what kind?
<daftykins> a free LGA775 core 2 duo E6750
<diddledan> freebies?
<MartijnVdS> isn't E6750 like.. 5ish years old?
<diddledan> that's not fair
<daftykins> sure is
<daftykins> everything i have in desktop form is LGA775 :)
<daftykins> however my file server is currently on a 2GHz pentium dual core E2180...
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/t50j9taoxabambb/IMG_20140619_173921.jpg
<diddledan> love this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmPM-LZ-6y8
<daftykins> only thing about that c2d is it came out of a machine that died apparently, so it's unknown as to whether it works
<daftykins> i'm kinda umming and arring about whether it'd do any harm to my gear by testing it in the target system
<daftykins> i'm sure it'll be fine ^_^
<diddledan> I wouldn't expect a faulty cpu to damage the mobo
<diddledan> but that's just my theory, I have no evidential proof
<diddledan> I found that LGA775 mobos are hard to find these days
<diddledan> even more so the cpus
<daftykins> indeedy
<daftykins> i think last time i looked i saw two or three LGA775 mATX boards on ebuyer
<diddledan> yeah they don't seem to do full-sized lga775 boards now
<daftykins> my gear is pretty old school :)
<daftykins> Q6600 LGA775 desktop with 8GB DDR2, then that current E2180 pentium dual core in the server with 4GB DDR2
 * diddledan watching 24 from last night
<diddledan> hah, England lost their match
<diddledan> whodathunkedit?
<daftykins> excellent, perhaps the pubs will calm down now
<daftykins> ;)
<diddledan> does that mean the team can't go through to the finals?
<diddledan> I hope so
<diddledan> two losses for two so far
<diddledan> there's gotta be only one more match for them in the group?
<daftykins> i have no idea, i've not followed anything :D
<daftykins> i didn't even know there was a world cup on this year
<diddledan> heh
<shauno> I think they still get through if italy completely mess up their next game
<shauno> but basically, yes, they're coming home
#ubuntu-uk 2014-06-20
<mapps> yay new graceland ep
<directhex> shauno, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJqimlFcJsM ?
<diddledan> directhex: you bad bad man
<knightwise> mornin dudes :)
<diddledan> narf
<directhex> is it? :'(
<dwatkins> snarf
<diddledan> jee, brain what are we going to do tonight?
<diddledan> with a room full of geeks the answer to that question probably isn't that far from the truth ;-)
<dwatkins> we already took over the world, it's just getting out of control
<diddledan> hmm
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<davmor2> morning bigcalm
<bigcalm> Hi davmor2
<bigcalm> Early start for you
<davmor2> no I have a 09:30 call every morning :)
<davmor2> I'm just gonna stay on tonight :)
<foobarry> is stackoverflow dead?
<foobarry> been offline for maintenance both times i've tried going to the site in 2 days
<davmor2> foobarry: looks up to me
<foobarry> oh!
<foobarry> Stack Overflow is currently offline for maintenance
<foobarry> ctrl-refresh ugh
<foobarry> refresh wasn't sufficient
<davmor2> foobarry: http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/stackoverflow.com
<foobarry> well it was up buit showing mainteance page.
<foobarry> why the main page doesn't expire so easily is strange
<foobarry> maint
<diddledan> www.php.net was down earlier
<davmor2> foobarry: I checked the site first and saw a display
<foobarry> apparently the internet went down for many yesterday
<foobarry> since facebook wasn't working for 15 mins
<diddledan> 15 minutes is forever
<diddledan> imagine the things you could do if facebook were operational for those 15 minutes
<diddledan> btw, whatever happened to the good ol' "poke"?
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday and happy Dump The Pump Day! :-D
<bigcalm> You're getting rather obscure
<JamesTait> I'm completely operational, and all my circuits are functioning perfectly.
<foobarry> happy rumpy pumpy day? must tell the wife
<bigcalm> She won't believe you. Wifes are good at doing that
<DJones> Somebody will have a headache as well
<TwistedLucidity> Joyous Sweetmorn, the 25th day of Confusion
<TwistedLucidity> (What's "Dump the Pump" all about?)
<JamesTait> Alternatives to fossil-fuel driven transportation, generally.
<TwistedLucidity> So...feet and push-bikes then.
<DJones> Could try the electric Harley Davidson
<TwistedLucidity> Can't. Electric is fossil-fuel unless you can guarantee it was only charged by nuclear or renewable. :-)
<TwistedLucidity> And you can't wear shoes. Plastic is fossil derived too. All leather ones would be OK.
<TwistedLucidity> No polyester items of clothing.
<TwistedLucidity> See....it gets hard.
<bigcalm> Will need to extract the fillings from my teeth and pins from my bones as fossil fuel will have been used to in their production and transportation
<drussell> bigcalm: not to mention all the food you've consumed through your lifetime, the majority of which was transported using fossil fuels
<popey> Morning all
<drussell> g'morning
<bigcalm> o/
<bigcalm> drussell: most of that food has been and gone though
<DJones> drussell: On roads constructed using fossil fuels in production
<dwatkins> can we start recycling all the plastic now?
<drussell> bigcalm: but your body is still here, the thing that was built using that food ;o)
<popey> We can fix that.
 * diddledan prepares the DIY fake suicide kit
<bigcalm> :O
<diddledan> ACME FTW
<bigcalm> Beer!
<bigcalm> Is it 2nd August yet?
<diddledan> nope
<diddledan> what happens then?
<diddledan> RAT?
<bigcalm> Chuff chuff
<bigcalm> !rat
<lubotu3> rat is The Real Ale Train. A yearly Ubuntu UK loco event to celebrate friends, trains and ale. Saturday 2nd August 2014 Hampshire, UK: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2745-real-ale-train-2014/
<diddledan> I'm not going :-(
<bigcalm> I guess I should enjoy 5th - 12th July first
<TwistedLucidity> That sounds awesome.
<bigcalm> TwistedLucidity: there will likely be another one next year. Keep an eye on the mailing list and me spamming this channel ;)
<TwistedLucidity> Ah, now I read "Sold out".
<TwistedLucidity> I'm a dirty Kubuntu-using heretic though. It'd probably get flogged and strapped to the front of the train unless I repented and declared Unity the one ture DE. :-P
<bigcalm> I think people are a little more open than that :)
 * TwistedLucidity books for next year, starts printing Gentoo pamphlets.
<diddledan> GENTOO!!! :-D
<awilkins> Oooh
<awilkins> RAT... may be able to actuall ygo
<foobarry>  any given Docker image someone is asking you to run in your Docker setup can access ANY file on your host, e.g. dumping hosts /etc/shadow or other sensitive info, compromising security of the host and any other docker VM's on it
<MartijnVdS> yay security
<bigcalm> awilkins: it's sold out this year
<bigcalm> awilkins: unless you can find somebody to sell you a ticket
<awilkins> Oh well
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: things like that don't really instill trust in "containers" vs "full VMs"
<diddledan> really?!
<diddledan> how is that possible?
<bigcalm> awilkins: there are usually people selling their spare tickets on the gate of the evening. But there's no guarantee
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: I thought the whole poinit of a Container was "chroot with bells on"?
<awilkins> Are we saying that Docker in LXC can access /etc/shadow ?
<awilkins> (forgive me if I'm mixing cloud thingies, I'm not entirely up to speed)
<foobarry>   http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/06/19/docker_security
<foobarry> sorry for reg link, i feel like reg=dailymail
<awilkins> Hehehe, yeah, so do I now.
<awilkins> So : it's fixed
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: I wouldn't say "Daily Mail", but they're rarely "hard tech". At least they don't seem to take themselves too seriously.
<popey> http://store.steampowered.com/app/227300/
<popey> ooh, cheap
<bigcalm> ...
<bigcalm> Not sure what the hook is
<diplo> I was thinking the same, but reviews seem good bigcalm :)
<bigcalm> I like the music though
<TwistedLucidity> Goat Simulator isn't on sale. Rats.
<MooDoo> hello all
<directhex> bigcalm, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOvcNMNQv2Q
<bigcalm> directhex: perfect!
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls
<popey> I like the train sim games
<popey> i like open world games too
<popey> and ones where you can crash â»
<Seeker> o/
<popey> Looking forward to No Man's Sky
<popey> looks proper bo
<foobarry> guildford massive
<popey> Jungle is massive.
 * popey is taking the day off next week.. to work on ubuntu stuff ;D
<popey> ooh, octodad on sale
<TwistedLucidity> You are taking the day of to do work. I think you fail to comprehend the meaning of "day off"
<popey> i know â»
<foobarry> euro truck sim 2 is Â£2.24
<dwatkins> I went to school in another country once during my half-term.
<foobarry> how can i find out which process is bound to which cpu/core
<MartijnVdS> are they bound?
<popey> ooh, steam has "Remotely install" option.. is that new?
<foobarry> or using
<davmor2> popey: Oh you mean steam testing on Ubuntu right
<dwatkins> foobarry: in "top", press f then j then return, it's the penultimate field
<popey> davmor2: installing for later
<foobarry> dwatkins: clever, cheers
<popey> j doesnt work here
<foobarry> WFM
<foobarry> * J: P          = Last used cpu (SMP)
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7673697/
<dwatkins> this is the version I have: ii  procps                                                1:3.2.8-11ubuntu6.3                                   /proc file system utilities
<foobarry> choose P field
<foobarry> top right
<popey> right, but j doesn't work
<foobarry> i'm on 12.04 still
<popey> 1:3.3.9-1ubuntu2
<popey> interesting
<foobarry> 	top: procps version 3.2.8
<foobarry> yours has more awesome
<dwatkins> Description:    Ubuntu 12.04.4 LTS
<popey> heh, Euro Truck Simulator coming down the pipe at 11.5MB/s!
<popey> HONK HONK!
<foobarry> runs on linux?
<popey> yes
<MartijnVdS> ETS 2 too
<popey> well,. 2 is what i got
<MartijnVdS> Also.. X-Com now being available on Linux
<MartijnVdS> Such awesome
<foobarry> did you see the ETS2 gold bundle
<foobarry> 2.99
<foobarry> includes "going east"
<diddledan> ooh, lotsa messages since I last looked
<awilkins> Oh hooray, the HTML5 player on YouTube fixes the stupid "Focus goes to window on other screen so I stop being fullscreen" bug
<bigcalm> I think flash still suffers from it though
<awilkins> Whatever the last flash update did, the performance went back to being extra-sucky on Linux
<awilkins> Noticably jerky
<awilkins> And Firefox doesn't support HTML5 on Youtube....
<awilkins> Which is a little sad
<awilkins> But that means Chromium is now my browser for .. i) Youtube and ii) Spotify   because they don't work on Firefox (Spotify / Firefox doesn't work for me behind a SOCKS proxy, Chromium does)
<foobarry> office365 kills firefox
<foobarry> is it worth me learning how to do the rubiks cube?
<foobarry> does it take long to learn?
<dwatkins> I recently bought myself a 3x3x3 cube so I could learn how to solve it, foobarry.
<dwatkins> There are a few simple techniques to learn, there's an excellent tutorial on youtube about it.
<dwatkins> the techniques all boil down to the same movements, though: http://www.wikihow.com/Solve-a-Rubik's-Cube-(Easy-Move-Notation)
<awilkins> I learned as a kid but I've forgotten most of the algorithms
<dwatkins> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsQIoPyfQzM
<awilkins> The ones I learned were pretty slow
<dwatkins> I think that's the one.
<awilkins> They concentrated on formulae that moved a single cubelet
<bigcalm> Spotify client is for Spotify ;)
<diddledan> there's some really funky stuff in the kindle firephone
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w95kwXy_MOY
<awilkins> Thing that vexes me about the spotify client is that it wants to be your only music player, but doesn't support local OGG files
<awilkins> The majority of my local music is encoded as OGG Vorbis... and so are Spotify's streams!
<awilkins> But it won't play them
<davmor2> diddledan: yeah but do you really want a phone that is on fire?
<bigcalm> Spotify is my only music player these days. Ever so rare that I listen to oggs or mps3. When I do, it's with VLC
<bigcalm> I pay the subscription, I use it pretty much constantly
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> is it possible to get replacement p60s?
<mapps> ive paid my student loan back but they wont stop taking every month without my p60..and work never gave me it..but im sure they'll say they did
<mgdm> I believe you can
<mgdm> might depend on HR being cooperative, though
<MooDoo> I think if you contact your tax office you can get one.
<MooDoo> aren't all the details you need on the p45 they gave you ?
<MooDoo> mapps: - http://www.taxfix.co.uk/forum/articles/ow-to-get-a-copy-of-your-p60.html
<mapps> hah p45 is end of employment?
<mapps> so no:P
<mapps> very funny ;] so email payroll
<diddledan> my last p60 said that I am unable to get replacements if I lose it
<mapps> oh
<mapps> i didnt lose mine..never got given it ;[ and p45 is end f employment aka being sacked?
<mapps> mean MooDoo
<mapps> :)
<MooDoo> I was just saying if you had your p45 then most of the details you need if you want a p60 are on it as far as i remember, so if it's just numbers then look at that.
<mapps> MooDoo but isnt a p45 only got when you leave or get fired? thats all i mean - why would i have one:D
<popey> you generally dont hae one
<popey> *have
<mapps> yea thought so
<popey> you get given one when you leave your employment, and then give it to the next place
<popey> so unless you're between jobs, you rarely have one, unless its a mistake
<MooDoo> it: marcushaslam]
<MooDoo> huh what?
<mapps> so hot outside
<mapps> sweating buckets after walking to sainsburys;/
<dwatkins> simple solution: don't go to Sainsburys ;)
<wheatley_ind_> There is that... oh... and open the windows!
<dwatkins> sometimes opening the windows makes it worse
<mapps> i was outside..!
<mapps> yea
<wheatley_ind_> Helps in a hot stuffy office :)
<wheatley_ind_> Although now looks like rain here!!
<dwatkins> reminds me of a joke about a genie in the desert who grants a wish of a car door so the guy can wind the window down when it gets hot
<mapps> get flys  when i open windows too
<foobarry> icedtea seems to fail for loads of remove viewer apps provided by vendors
<foobarry> remote*
<wheatley_ind_> foobarry, which vendors? I know some you can run the Java applet directly
<brobostigon> http://pastebin.com/a5JE2qum anyone recognise this error, i cant find much information on it. please.
<MooDoo> brobostigon: http://techblog.tgharold.com/2013/08/tls-sslread-failed-error14094418ssl.html
<brobostigon> it only happens when i try and use roundcube to connect to dovecot, using k9-mail, no error.
<foobarry> wheatley_ind_: APC, IBM, etc
<foobarry> have an APC IP KVM switch
<MooDoo> brobostigon: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2177726
<brobostigon> MooDoo: thank you,
<MooDoo> no sure if any of them are relavent though
<foobarry> net.sourceforge.jnlp.LaunchException: Fatal: Application Error: Unknown Main-Class. Could not determine the main class for this application.
<TwistedLucidity> Dear ubuntu-type super-peoples; can I install from a live CD/USB when I have no keyboard or monitor on the target machine?
<TwistedLucidity> I don't want to have to rearrange the office to do an install....
<mapps> hmmm
<mapps> i think yes but notusing the defaut
<mapps> youd prob have to do some kinda config file
<TwistedLucidity> mapps: I was afraid of that. Hmm....this monitor doe PIP, I wonder if the cables are long enough......
<mapps> http://askubuntu.com/questions/122505/how-do-i-create-a-completely-unattended-install-of-ubuntu
<TwistedLucidity> About 5cm too short...rats
<mapps> this might help TwistedLucidity
<mapps> https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/installation-guide/i386/automatic-install.html
<mapps> ah bit old may apply tho
<TwistedLucidity> The config file stuff looks interesting. Might need that later. For now I'm going to see if I can shoogle this thing 5cm to the right
<TwistedLucidity> Shoogle achieved!
<mapps> so how you going to do it?:D
<mapps> found out?
<foobarry> mapps: what's your net profit losson the world cup so far
<foobarry> anyone near a redhat 6 server please cat /etc/redhat-release please?
<TwistedLucidity> mapps: Yeah, I moved some furniture and shifted in 5cm to the right. Now have a monitor connected. Spare keybaords etc located.
<foobarry> ah, think i got one
<dwatkins> TwistedLucidity: do you have a serial cable? ;)
<bigcalm> Nooooooooooooo
<bigcalm> My elephpant just threw itself off of my monitor
<bigcalm> It's Friday, be happy wee elephpant
<popey> phablet-shell
<popey> bah!
<dwatkins> bigcalm: pics or it didn't happen!
<bigcalm> https://twitter.com/bigcalm/status/480009498116247553
<dwatkins> hehe, a php elephant :D
<bigcalm> An elePHPant
<dwatkins> indeedly
<dwatkins> bigcalm: where can you get them? my brother wants one
<bigcalm> Not sure if they are available any more
<dwatkins> ebay, then ;)
<bigcalm> There are occational different colour ones from events or kickstarter
<bigcalm> I'm currently waiting for a purple one from supporting PHPwomen
<diddledan> I want a elephpant!
<dwatkins> diddledan: http://www.elephpant.com/content/latest-available-elephpants
<diddledan> I placed an order - they're gonna email me or so they say
<dwatkins> good luck!
<bigcalm> Is Octodad playable/enjoyable?
<bigcalm> Or just plain weird
<popey> it is both
<popey> its playable, controls are hard, like surgeon sim
<bigcalm> Eugh
<TwistedLucidity> Anyone used devstack? Any ideas on why it's impossible to login with the correct user/pass? No errors, just doesn't leave login page
<bigcalm> I found I sucked beyond belief with surgeon sim
<bigcalm> I want it to be 6pm so I can knock off and play beatbuddy
<Laney> spotify's "gapless playback" is a filthy lie
<popey> +1
<Laney> it doesn't even try to buffer the next song before getting onto it as far as I can tell
<TwistedLucidity> I give up. Declaring devstack "unfit for purpose".
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/zjzrob9svavbxca/IMG_20140620_142706.jpg
<daftykins> woop woop, time to do the ghetto LGA775 upgrade ^_^
<bigcalm> Dats the sound of the police
<daftykins> ;)
<Laney> first sustained use of fan this year
<Laney> achievement unlocked
<Laney> rocking out to the four seasons might have had something to do with it
<diddledan> lol
<popey> Tempted to light the bbq
<popey> yes, screw it, lighting
<davmor2> popey: I think you missed the n there dude, Lightning !  It's what you'll doom us too if you fire up the BBQ :D
<popey> lit!
<popey> well, lighting
<mapps> world cup on
<diddledan> grr
<popey> chicken on bbq \o/
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> beer o'clock
<popey> indeed
 * popey resists checking on the chicken
<bigcalm> Anybody played Rage?
<bigcalm> Video looks a little gory
<mapps> <foobarry> mapps: what's your net profit losson the world cup so far -- not sure
<mapps> but +about 800 on this match
<mapps> layed Italy/backed unders and backed costa rica at 1-0
<mapps> free yen
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/9nci6hn5xlea1dj/serverpi.png
<daftykins> aww yeah that's a nice little speed boost for an aged machine
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/jb42jrnp0zah91q/AACk5S6aAf8kfQM-nl7OG0uUa
<MartijnVdS> hmm.. steam servers are hjaving a hard time
<MartijnVdS> I'm only getting 1.4MB/s instead of the usual 11
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: silly billy, buying steam sales is to collect, not to actually *play* ;)
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: But.. X-Com!
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: looked a bit basic to me
<mapp> gah its so hot
<daftykins> mapp: hehe
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: it's a bit basic but it's so good
<MartijnVdS> as in.. lots of the exciting
<diddledan> mapp: unzip and stand in front of an open freezer
<diddledan> when did I become an expert at PHP? I don't recall being good enough to be referred-to as such
<diddledan> 'nother network: [19:38:36] DP110	is rusty n had to check with an expert
<mapp> heh diddledan
<mapp> i was paying like 2.62 a pack of marlboro in cz
<mapp> and here 8.50
<mapp> lol
<diddledan> ouch
<diddledan> gotta love the cancertax
<mapp> seems like everyone smokes over there
<mapp> every single hot girl is always lighting up
<diddledan> heh
<mapp> its totally diff tho..can smoke anywhere..even the staff behind bars smoke whilst serving you
<mapp> can smoke in the airport etc lol
<mapp> that and the fact we were paying 80p-1.50 a pint
<mapp> id be dead by 40 ! :)
<daftykins> i don't think i'd like that
<mapp> i wouldnt be able to help myself..if i earnt my wages now and lived there
<daftykins> hehe
<mapp> there's a 24hr sports bar 2mins from another 24hr bar 5mins from where my mate lives..my mate went to watch the nba finals at 2am ..i couldnt be bothered..too tired
<mapp> he gets home 830am LOL
<daftykins> >_<
<daftykins> that's something that sucks about the channel islands, stuff wraps up very early
<daftykins> there's still no sunday trading too
<mapp> i can imagine some bad nights out if we had a 24hr sports bar
<mapp> bad enough the casinos serving till 630am;p
<mapp> wakeup feeling horrendous
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> pubs are done by midnight here
<mapp> no 24hr supermarkets?
<daftykins> no sir
<daftykins> the big ones that got bought by Waitrose aren't allowed to open on Sunday due to their size
<daftykins> ones by me in the town centre close at 10pm every night
#ubuntu-uk 2014-06-21
<foobarry> good morning
<ali1234> (10:17:37) ali1234: if two people each have a secret number, is it possible for them to compute the bitwise-AND of their numbers, without either of them revealing their number to the other, and without a trusted third party?
<ali1234> i just figured this out
<ali1234> well, a weaker form. i don't need the actual result, just need to know if the result is true or false
<ali1234> have each person commit to a random number, rotate their secret by the random number and then send it to the other person. the other person then rotates it by their random number and sends it back. then both people have both secret numbers rotated by an unknown number of steps. AND'ing it will produce the same number of one bits, but you can't get back the original numbers
<ali1234> the application here is implementing line-of-sight in a networked game with no central server
<ali1234> hmm wait that won't work, you can discover the other person's random number by re-rotating your own input
<MartijnVdS> are you trying to re-invent DH?
<ali1234> probably
<ali1234> what is DH?
<directhex> diffie-hellman?
<ali1234> oh. no, i don't think so
<MartijnVdS> yes that one
<MartijnVdS> "The DiffieâHellman key exchange method allows two parties that have no prior knowledge of each other to jointly establish a shared secret key over an insecure communications channel."
<ali1234> that's not what i am trying to do at all
<ali1234> so i can fix this if there is a way to deterministically shuffle the bits in a binary string that can't be reversed without knowing the input...
<foobarry> use a one way hash?
<ali1234> that won't preserve the ability to do a bitwise AND and get the same answer
<ali1234> unless it's a specially designed hash function
<foobarry> have you asked stackoverlow?
<ali1234> i've found they're not very helpful with this kind of question
<ali1234> actually such a hash should be quite easy to implement... (famous last words)
<foobarry> even the mathmeticians?
<ali1234> especially the mathematicians
<foobarry> i implemented one and two way hashes in C a long time ago but can't remember much
<foobarry> much/anything
<ali1234> hmm i think this should work
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<ali1234> does ubuntu touch qml have a messaging api?
<ali1234> (instant messaging)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
 * penguin42 yaaawwwwnnns at bigcalm
<mapps> afternoon all
<daftykins> heya
<tiiiiiirnot> FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U
<tiiiiiirnot> FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U
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<daftykins> oh my, here too
<tiiiiiirnot> FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U
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<tiiiiiirnot> FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U
<tiiiiiirnot> FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U
<tiiiiiirnot> FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U
<tiiiiiirnot> FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U
<tiiiiiirnot> FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U
<tiiiiiirnot> FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U
<tiiiiiirnot> FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U
<tiiiiiirnot> FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U
<tiiiiiirnot> FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U
<tiiiiiirnot> FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U
<tiiiiiirnot> FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U
<tiiiiiirnot> FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U
<tiiiiiirnot> FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U
<tiiiiiirnot> FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U
<tiiiiiirnot> FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U FUCK U
<daftykins> how wude
<popey> indeed!
<daftykins> you know i can understand abuse toward say, channels for Windows, but it's kinda weird toward the FOSS communities
<daftykins> kinda biting the hand that feeds
<popey> people are dicks
<popey> film at 11
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> i wonder where that phrasing came from
<foobarry> bit early in the day to be drunk/teenager
<mapps> No Foreign Transaction Fees (typically 2.95% when using your card abroad).
<mapps> so if i use my card abroad they wont charge me anything extra at all?
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> sounds too good to be true
<penguin42> mapps: That the Halifax clarity?
<mapps> nah penguin42 Lloyds Amex
<mapps> http://www.lloydsbank.com/credit-cards/avios-rewards.asp
<penguin42> ah
<mapps> you get 2 cards for 1 ac lol
<penguin42> mapps: The Halifax is advertising the same claim
<mapps> a mastercard and an amex
<mgdm> Not much in the UK seems to use Amex
<mapps> yea i saw that
<mapps> yea i noticed that mgdm
<mgdm> ah, I see, if you get an MC that makes it useful
<mapps> thing is its handy to have a card with no fees abroad...ive never used my cards abroad because im sure they charge
<mgdm> (thr reason is that Amex puts far more of the risk onto retailers rather than themselves, and is quite expensive to handle IIRC)
<mapps> yea a mastercard for when they dont take amex
<penguin42> mapps: I'm not sure, but I suspect one of the tricks is that since they don't actually have to move currency around it's cheaper for them to do currency exchange
<mapps> what do you mean?
<penguin42> mapps: If I'm in the UK and I pay a EU vendor on my card, then Mastercard doesn't actually have to do a sterling/Euro conversion as long as they have some EU people wanting to buy some stuff from the UK - it's only the amount they settle with the merchants
<mapps> ah
<mapps> but most credit cards still charge fees for use abroad
<mapps> which is mad lame
<penguin42> yes
<mapps> so im happy to have this amex/mc from lloyds
<mapps> handy to have when im abroad..i took a cc with me when i was in czech rep..but didnt wanna use really
<mapps> hard remembering all the pins tho
<mapps> 4 debit cards/7 credit cards
 * penguin42 hasn't used one abroad yet, but in the UK I use it for everything
<mapps> all diff pints
<mapps> pins
<mapps> only time i use debit card is when they say theyre gonna charge more
<mapps> like expedia charge 5% if you book on a credit card
<mapps> ;[
<mapps> and jet2 charge..so clearly not gonna pay that
<ali1234> i heard expedia takes bitcoin now
<daftykins> anyone own an internet connected xbox 360 and fancy trying something for me? :)
<popey> daftykins: i do have such a device
<popey> but I can't be arsed to move â»
<daftykins> ;D
<daftykins> popey: isn't that what kids are for? ;)
<popey> heh, they're in bed â»
<daftykins> oh yeah it's late, heh
<daftykins> not to worry, got at least one other confirmation that dashboard videos don't play, very disappointing Microsoft!
 * bigcalm nabs Skyrim before bed time
<bigcalm> And Duck Tails
<bigcalm> People keep going on about Papers, Please. Guess I should get that as well
#ubuntu-uk 2014-06-22
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> afternoonings bigcalm
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> the buttons on my laptops pad thing are broken
<mapps> can they be replaced? im guessng no
<penguin42> pad thing?
<ali1234> touchpad
<ali1234> and i've repaired those before
<ali1234> depends what type they are though
<mapps> samsung r520 laptop
<mapps> its the buttons not the actual pad..the click buttons
<penguin42> are they real buttons or just a thing on the pad?
<mapps> just the left one works but its as if a clip or something broke inside
<mapps> real buttons
<mapps> penguin42 http://imagebin.org/314191
<mapps> See the left button
<penguin42> oh yeh, not an electrical issue :-)
<penguin42> mapps: It might be easy to bodge something if it's just a broken support
<penguin42> I don't know if it's possible to get replacment mouldings etc
<penguin42> our microwave had a problem with it's stop button being broken; solved with a bit of glue on the button where  a notch had broken off it
<mapps> yea it looks like support broken
<mapps> i did look for replacements..couldnt see anything
<mapps> i mean it still works..its just a bit annoying7
<penguin42> as I say, if you're lucky a bit of glue/plastic in the right place might do it
<mapps> hm
<mapps> gonna do a repair and lone for my 5s
<mapps> i take it to the ee store they send off and replace battery for free
<mapps> cant be right losing 26% charge in an hou
<mapps> r
<penguin42> depending what it's running and how duff it's battery is
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> why isnt https://frogs.zapto.org working https://192.168.1.75 is
<mapps> and ive redirect ssl port
<penguin42> mapps: Firewalled? It's not responding to a telnet to port 443?
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> cant ssh in either
<mapps> what has happened :<
<mapps> cant ssh in locally
<ali1234> sweet, sgdq has started, and there's a humble bundle to go along with it
#ubuntu-uk 2015-06-15
<shauno> the unladen european diddledan?
<daftykins> :D
<shauno> I should be in bed, but my butt and the couch are getting on so well, it seems like a shame to split them up
<shauno> I was out on that bloody contaption again.  it doesn't seem to be working, I'm still fat
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> annoying not getting instant results isn't it :/
<daftykins> tell you what though, post hospital i could do maybe 5 pushups, now i can hit 19 or 20 back to back
<shauno> yeah.  I think I need a faster processor
<daftykins> collapse immediately after though :D
<shauno> I had a really silly planning error today though
<shauno> I cycled until I hurt.  and then turned around and cycled home again :/
<daftykins> hehehe
<shauno> I honestly thought I was cleverer than that
<daftykins> well at least you can say you fought through the pain!
<shauno> it was more of a whine than a fight :/
<daftykins> a whimper!
<mapps> hi all:)
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<mapps> hmmm
<mapps> sundays are good
<mapps> silicon valley and american odysey
<MooDoo> hello all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> how are you brobostigon ?
<brobostigon> not too bad, all loved up, and you?
 * brobostigon is back together with his ex fiance.
<bujji> my load avg for 15m is 10.44 what should i do
<bujji> intrbiz:hello
<popey> bujji: why is that a problem?
<bujji> i dont know..no zombie
<popey> no, I'm asking why you're concerned about it
<bujji> load avg is greater 4 and all
<popey> so the box was busy.
<popey> what's the 1m and 5m load average?
<popey> maybe you had a cron job running on the hour which has now finished.
<bujji> 3.45 5.34 8.34
<popey> so it's something that's passed then
<bujji> how can i  identify?
<popey> well, those processes have now ended or calmed down
<popey> It's not necessarily a problem.
<bujji> does cronjob will take heavy load on the syatem.
<popey> Depends what your cron jobs do
<bujji> before that ,i did set cronjob for every minute delete text files in specified location.
<SuperMatt> load can be so many things
<SuperMatt> is there high io on the box?
<popey> it was high ~15 minutes ago, things may have changed since then
<bujji> SuperMatt:few can you list?
<popey> leave "vmstat 5" running
<popey> look at the "wa" column
<popey> https://www.linode.com/docs/uptime/monitoring/use-vmstat-to-monitor-system-performance
<bujji> popey:for every 5 seconds virtual memory status
<popey> yup
<popey> top and vmstat are useful for identifying problems when a machine is busy
<SuperMatt> if top is taking a long time to load though, just reboot ;)
<SuperMatt> also, iotop is quite good
<bujji> if which value increasing  the sytem get problem
<popey> eh?
<directhex> one of the things that contributes to a high load average is "iowait", i.e. the cpu not doing anything because it's waiting on slow disk activity.
<directhex> if "iostat" shows a high iowait percentage, then that's the issue - basically only fixable by replacing spinning rust with SSDs
<popey> or moving work
<bujji> directhex:how can i observe these tings in vmstat and make it things normal
<bujji> things*
<directhex> second to last column, iirc?
<SuperMatt> also, type "free -m". If the swap usage is anything above 0, you're simply using too much memory
<directhex> yes, the "wa" column, second to last, is iowait.
<directhex> and SuperMatt isn't wrong, you really don't want to be using swap
<SuperMatt> I have to tell our cloud customers off all the time for hitting swap
<bujji> wa 0
<knightwise> morning everyone
<SuperMatt> I'm going to be very pedantic here, and employ an old techie staple:
<SuperMatt> Have you tried turning it off an on again?
<brobostigon> morning knightwise
<SuperMatt> if the problem persists, you have a hardware issue, if it goes then it's all software
<bujji> SuperMatt:me  on/off
<bujji> SuperMatt:okey
<bujji> SuperMatt:how can i delete specific job in crontab -l
<SuperMatt> of course, if it's a production server, you may not wish to reboot
<SuperMatt> run crontab -e and put a # at the start of the line
<bujji> SuperMatt:that means its a comment right..if i want to remove that one
<SuperMatt> yes, just comment it out - at least that means you won't lose it forever
<bujji> sed will work for that?
<bujji> beacuse i dont find any option for removing specific line.
<bujji> SuperMatt:i may not wish to reboot,what all the thins i need to do apart from reboot.
<SuperMatt> wait, you're using cron -e and you're struggling?
<SuperMatt> https://www.rackspace.com/knowledge_center/article/multi-user-task-scheduling-with-crontab
<SuperMatt> you run crontab -e, and then it will load the editor of your choice (nano, by default), and then you put a # at the start of the line
<SuperMatt> bujji: what is your first language, out of interest?
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<bujji> SuperMatt:regional here
<bujji> SuperMatt:nice at atq,i got
<bujji> SuperMatt:hindi language
<davmor2> http://speedof.me/show.php?img=150614180933-86825.png not too bad :)
<TheGeek> mornin
 * Laney swears
<Laney> can't get my mortgage calculator spreadsheet to give the same numbers that I get on the statement
<SuperMatt> the answer is "more than it really should be"
<Laney> it's like Â£4 out
<Laney> but over 24 years 5 months that will probably amount to a big difference :P
<bujji> SuperMatt:bye
<bujji> bye
<baas_> how to make one service as system start up(on reboot) using script....like  (service httpd start)
<popey> baas_: what version of ubuntu?
<baas_> :14
<popey> thats not a version number I recognise
<zmoylan-pi> it was released in smarch? :-P
<popey> Septober I think.
<baas_> 13.04
<popey> I remember a Viz calendar had an extra month
<davmor2> Laney: are you taking a yearly amount dividing it by 365 and timesing it by the number of days in the month or are you taking the yearly amount and diving it by 12?  as there are closer to 13 months in 4 weekly payments
<popey> baas_: 13.04 is no longer supported
<Laney> davmor2: I'm trying to compound the interest daily
<Laney> I have the balance on two dates and I'm trying to come up with a calculation that makes the second number match up
<baas_> give me any idea to doing that one.
<foobarry> are you including leap days
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Nature Photography Day! ð
<davmor2> Laney: then you would need to know how the bank round up?  ie does 12.32 become 12.32, 12.33, 12, 12.40 or 12.35 etc
<davmor2> that could be the difference
<Laney> don't know!
<popey> baas_: http://askubuntu.com/questions/9382/how-can-i-configure-a-service-to-run-at-startup
<shauno> perhaps your bank are lying.
<popey> NO WAI!
<shauno> only half-kidding .. I think if I couldn't figure out how to make my numbers match theirs, I'd ask them
<knightwise> nature photography day : Is that "public snapchat" day ?
<Laney> It might be that I don't know exactly when the payments are applied
<davmor2> shauno: you are confusing banks with layers, Banks will always try to rip you off, but only marginally, Lawyers will try to rip your arm off and beat you with the soggy end and then charge you for the privilege
<Laney> so I have to calculate interest up to some mid point and then subtract the payment, then calculate it for the rest
<davmor2> theres a w in there too
<JamesTait> knightwise, it's every day for me, pretty much. ð
<Laney> I made an overpayment on the 1st but didn't get a letter until the 11th
<shauno> hm.  my bank do all of that but beat me with the soggy end.  I think they've figured out that the more I forget they exist, the more they can get away with
<Laney> who knows when it actually got applied to the account
<davmor2> Laney: check your statement
<Laney> this is all the info I have
<Laney> they have no online system either :(
<foobarry> i think my mortgage accoutn is in credit
<foobarry> not sure if i get interest
<Laney> what does it mean for a mortgage to be in credit?
<Laney> doesn't it just end?
<foobarry> i overpayed a bit
<foobarry> they kept the account open. i'm not sure. but i don't have to do anything with title deeds if the account is open
<foobarry> and i could borrow aagainst my house easily without poening a new mortagage
<baas_> foobarry: all is well
<ne2k> I wanted to p2v a remote a server to logged into it and remounted the root filesystem readonly so that I could get a consistent image. Unfortunately, I got logged out and now cannot log in again. ssh takes my password and then just immediately closes the connection. is there any way I can recover this remotely or am I going to have to make a trip to the server?
<baas_> ne2k:rsync
<ne2k> baas_, how is this an answer to my question?
<foobarry> doesn't soudn promising ne2k
<MooDoo> ne2k: not a vm i'm gussing?
<baas_> it syncroniize data of two folders
<baas_> nfs?
<MooDoo> baas_: he can't login to the box, what's nfs and rsync got to do with anything
<baas_> does he have any key?
<baas_> ne2k:execute a remote command what you want to do(it will execute and come out)
<ne2k> baas_, it does not
<baas_> you told that ssh takes my password?
<shauno> have you tried ssh -vvvv to see what the last few things it complains about are?
<ne2k> shauno, yes, it says "sending passowrd packet, waiting for reply" and then "connection closed"
<baas_> ne2k:ssh <ip> <your task>
<MooDoo> there isn't an exit command in your .bash_profile is there?
<ne2k> baas_, ssh user@host, ssh user@host "echo blah", ssh -T user@host "echo blah" all have the same effects -- password is taken, then immediately connection is closed
<MooDoo> ne2k: http://askubuntu.com/questions/349631/why-is-my-ssh-connection-dropping-immediately-after-i-enter-my-password
<ne2k> MooDoo, I have read that, this is different. I don't get the MoTD
<MooDoo> ah ok
<baas_> ne2k:did you set any firewalls
<ne2k> baas_, have you reboot the modem router?
<shauno> yeah, if you don't get "Authentication succeeded (password)" after sending password packet, sending different commands isn't going to help
<baas_> ne2k:no
<shauno> you should get that, then channel new session, and then the command/shell become relevant
<ne2k> baas_, you need to reboot teh modem router and then you can try again ok?
<baas_> ne2k:okey))
<shauno> I suspect it needs to write to /var or /tmp or something and you've ro'd a little more than you needed to
<shauno> I'm not willing to try right now, since this box is in germany heh, but not being able to write to eg, /var/log/secure may be enough to confuse it
<shauno> or wherever utmp goes these days
<ne2k> righto, it's fubared, I'll need to power cycle. fairy nuff
<diplo> I believe it's secure too
<shauno> well, it's secure now ;)
<shauno> quick, schedule audits while it's impossible to login
<diddledan_> morning
<shauno> wasn't me
<diddledan_> something broke then?
<knightwise> Yeeey ! XPS13 should arrive later on this week.
<diddledan_> ooh
<diddledan_> you finally succumbed?
<Myrtti> http://www.uniqlo.com/uk/store/list/basic/femobile/uut/moomin
<knightwise> diddledan_: i ded :) ordered it about a week ago.
<knightwise> the HD version , I5
<knightwise> not the QHD one
<knightwise> no touchscreen
<zmoylan-pi> that will keep the screen cleaner :-)
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: and i don't "realy" need it.
<knightwise> Ubuntu and touch .. it aint quite there yet. and I for one am not willing to run into a bunch of terrible scaling issues from a bunch of legacy apps
<knightwise> Currently using the surface pro 3 to take with me on meetings and stuff. The xps will make a great companion device
<zmoylan-pi> i just use a phone with qwerty keyboard, currently a second hand symbian e5 i got for â¬50
<diddledan_> zmoylan-pi: yeah, but you're still using VHS thinking it's God's Gift
<zmoylan-pi> i do keep meaning to recycle my vhs and dvd players.  no tv since 2009 or so
<zmoylan-pi> but it is a region free dvd player and i do have one dvd box set that is region 1... :-)
<davmor2> Charley says meow meow meow..meow meow meow.
<diddledan_> charlie bit me!
<zmoylan-pi> reply for charley. *bark*
<davmor2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5sCKCN6Uw4
<diddledan_> davmor2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrJjcCnd9O0
<davmor2> diddledan_: you need help
<diddledan_> :-p
<davmor2> popey: admit it you want one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gs8Ze4g6wec
<popey> directhex: you watching the e3 stream on youtube? is it pausing for you every so often?
<directhex> yeah. really janky
<popey> ok
<daftykins> xbox event?
 * daftykins is watching
<popey> cuphead looks amazing
<daftykins> does :>
<daftykins> neat style
<popey> yeah, really looks authentically old
<popey> oooh
<popey> the RARE bit
<popey> knight lore!
<popey> my son will love to see that minecraft demo
<davmor2> popey: just start saying I know something you don't know until he cracks
<daftykins> evil!
<diddledan> what am I missing?
<popey> youtube.com/e3
<davmor2> daftykins: You have to train your kids that the real world sucks :)
<davmor2> daftykins: the single role of parents is to prepare their kids for the eventual flight from the nest
<davmor2> popey: more important have you got OTA4 yet?
<diddledan> that look skeery
<popey> no :(
<popey> wonder how they're doing the 360 on xbone compatibility
<popey> dynamic recompilation? full system emulation?
<daftykins> that's what interests me
<daftykins> a very moany friend was going on about "boo hoo why can't we play 360 titles" a while back and i tried to explain architecture differences, but hrmm
<diddledan> cloud acceleration :-p
<diddledan> OMGZOR FLUFFY CLOUDS!
<popey> I wonder if it's cloud based
<daftykins> well it said it'd support retail discs, so hrmm
<popey> maybe just for checking license
<popey> he did say it was only 100 or so games at launch
<popey> and that there's zero effort, publishers just flip a switch
<popey> which makes me think it's in the cloud and not local.
<daftykins> time'll tell
<daftykins> quite a lot of time to wait, too
<popey> heh
<daftykins> i wonder how big the Windows 10 base for the xbox one will be to download, too
<daftykins> would rather a disc image download really :>
<directhex> there was a list of ~100 for xbox original on 360 too
<directhex> whitelist
<brobostigon> has anyone got a nexus 4 with ubuntu touch, who can confirm something for me please.
<popey> wassup?
<popey> I don't have a nexus but I may know the answer anyway
<brobostigon> with gps and network location on, things like the nearby and weather scopes and other location elements, arent picking up the correct location.
<popey> even after pull-down refresh
<popey> ?
<brobostigon> yes.
<sebsebsebb> hi from Sweden
<davmor2> brobostigon: open the browser and goto maps.google.com what location does it give you?
<brobostigon> one moment davmor2
<brobostigon> davmor2: it says, maps could not determine your location.
<davmor2> brobostigon: that'll be why, You obviously don't have here maps agps so you will need to get an initial fix at a guess, that can take up to 15 minutes
<brobostigon> davmor2: so what do i do?
<davmor2> brobostigon: go outside or prop it up at the window. Open terminal app and type "powerd-cli display on" then open a mapping app or leave google maps open and eventually it will get a gps fix
<brobostigon> davmor2: ok, thank you.
<davmor2> brobostigon: but keep the mapping app in the foreground till you get a fix
<awilkins> Doesn't it have agps?
<diddledan> random, but related, the here-maps thingy that ubuntu contracted a while back (agps et al) - is that from the nokia that microsoft did or didn't buy?
<awilkins> That's usually a lot quicker than 15 minutes
<davmor2> awilkins: the commercial phones do the nexus device don't
<diddledan> i.e. which of the two nokias is the contract with
<awilkins> davmor2, I thought the "assisted" part was in software?
<brobostigon> davmor2: does it need to be ran as root?
<davmor2> awilkins: it's the contract with here
<awilkins> Ah
<awilkins> Is it standard?
<davmor2> brobostigon: maybe
<awilkins> When I had an N900
<brobostigon> davmor2: ok,
<davmor2> brobostigon: it's been a while
<awilkins> They killed the AGPS coordinate server for the N900
<brobostigon> davmor2: ok, ty.
<awilkins> But you could reconfigure it to the main Nokia one
<diddledan> noone?
<davmor2> diddledan: the bit not owned by MS
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> the "real" nokia :-0p
<diddledan> I believe ms are rebranding away from the nokia name per the agreement they signed when they bought the mobile business
<diddledan> also I believe the "real" nokia are soon allowed to re-enter the mobile handset market
<awilkins> Would something similar to this work on the Ubuntu phone ? http://www.littlegreenrobot.co.uk/hackerzone/make-your-phone-get-a-gps-lock-quicker/
<ali1234> i doubt that works anywhere
<ali1234> those instructions are stupid
<popey> davmor2: showed sam the minecraft hololens video - he now wants a hololens :)
<davmor2> popey: foolish mortal your soul is mine
<popey> hah
<brobostigon> davmor2: is powerd-cli meant to output anything?
<davmor2> brobostigon: no it just keeps the screen active so you don't have to keep tapping it
<brobostigon> davmor2: ah i see.
<davmor2> brobostigon: if you don't the battery saving kicks in and turns off gps when the screen blanks and you have to start again from scratch, the same is true if the mapping app isn't in the foreground
<brobostigon> davmor2: interesting, i see,
<diddledan> turning off gps when the screen is blank sounds like a bug to me
<diddledan> that's akin to turning off gsm because it's in your pocket
<MartijnVdS> sounds like powersaving to me
<davmor2> diddledan: if the screen is off you are not using gps right
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: maybe you have the thing in your pocket, and are using audio-only walking navigation?
<diddledan> davmor2: I want gps to retain accurate position information ready for my usage. I don't want to wait 15 minutes for a lock because I just turned off the screen 5 minutes ago
<davmor2> diddledan: once you have an initial fix it is pretty quick, but it is designed for battery saving and agps which gets you an acurrate fix by the time the app is open on the whole
<diddledan> davmor2: if it's turning off the gps system then I will lose the initial fix
<davmor2> diddledan: it keeps the data it's just the hardware it turns off
<diddledan> davmor2: and while the hardware's turned off I move 5 miles. now my fix is 5 miles out of date
<davmor2> diddledan: the issue comes if you reboot then you have to start again
<davmor2> diddledan: and? don't use a nexus device then
<diddledan> so your answer to "it doesn't do this right" is "well don't bother then"
<diddledan> or rather "don't try then#"
<awilkins> I even have the screen off when I use GPS in the car sometimes
<davmor2> diddledan: it does do it right, it just there is no agps that is not something we can do anything about
<awilkins> Voice directions good enough, and the 3D rendering and backlight are enough to push the power consumption over what the charger can squeeze into it - so my battery actually discharges
<diddledan> davmor2: my in-car gps navigation devices doesn't have agps and that manages fine
<awilkins> Plus it gets really warm (Nexus 4 without the heat spreader mod)
<awilkins> diddledan, Suspect the dedicated units have a much larger antenna tuned specifically for GPS
<diddledan> awilkins: I think it's more likely that they don't randomly reset things
<ali1234> why is there no a-gps?
<davmor2> ali1234: there is on the commercial products, it's under contract with here maps
<davmor2> diddledan: there difference is turn off hardware and have a battery that lasts days or leave it all on and have a battery that last 4-8 hours. we went with the former.
<MartijnVdS> PWM it :P
<ali1234> i thought a-gps was provided by the mobile network?
<davmor2> ali1234: no,  google has its own, ms uses nokia and apple uses apple maps.
<davmor2> ali1234: the agps providers know where the towers are
<ali1234> knowing where the towers are isn't useful, that's not what a-gps is
<davmor2> anyway I'm off enjoy your evenings
<ali1234> a-gps is just a faster way to get the almanac without having to wait 12 minutes to receive it from the satellite
<diddledan> TBH I don't get why the almanac needs to be downloaded every time myself
<diddledan> I guess the satellites aren't truly static?
<ali1234> because of satellite drift and ionosphere disturbances
<ali1234> the satellites aren't even kind of static, they're not geosynchronous
<diddledan> oh?
<diddledan> I figured they were
 * diddledan googles gps
<ali1234> the almanic is like 30kb, but it takes ages to receive it from space
<diddledan> gps-iiiA is being planned for service "from2016". hmm /me clicks wiki link
<awilkins> Must be like downloading software via Ceefax adapter
<awilkins> You'd think any old almanac would work though ; are there not open sources of it online?
<awilkins> Or is the bit to download it just left out of that version of the software?
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: old almanac data gets useless *fast*
<MartijnVdS> as in, a few days
<awilkins> Yeah, but is this data no good : http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=gpsAlmanacs
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: you'd need specs of the hardware to know how to tell it about that data
 * awilkins grows at proprietary firmware
<awilkins> *growls
<MartijnVdS> grows, eh ;)
<awilkins> I unequivocally state that I do not have a fetish for any GPS receiver
<awilkins> (GLONASS on the other hand.... sweet sweet GLONASS)....
<MartijnVdS> :P
<MartijnVdS> what about Galileo?
<awilkins> Are there actually any receivers that work on it yet?
<MartijnVdS> nah they don't even have 1/3 of the network up
<MartijnVdS> they're supposed to have enough for basic positioning soon though
<MartijnVdS> http://download.esa.int/docs/Galileo_IOV_Launch/FOC_factsheet_20111003.pdf
<Myrtti> And this my friends, is the reason I keep my passwords in Keepass2 instead of LastPass.
<Myrtti> ho-hum
<daftykins> Myrtti: what is? :)
<shauno> ali1234: any advice on finding optical mice that'll work with the amiga?
<popey> Myrtti: wool related game on http://youtube.com/e3 now!
<Myrtti> daftykins: lastpass was hacked
<daftykins> heh nice
<daftykins> haven't looked at my news feeds today
<ali1234> shauno: best bet is to by or build a ps/2 to busmouse converter
<shauno> I've tried three different adaptors :/
<shauno> mouse just doesn't light up at all
<ali1234> optical mouse probably needs more power
<shauno> hm.  I wonder if I can bust out the kynar without frying anything
<diddledan> Myrtti: :-o
 * diddledan googles
<shauno> hm, yeah.  pinouts.ru says that port is max 50mA.  the mouse has 100 written on its bottom
<diddledan> their password reset system is broke
<shauno> hm.  tried jumping the 5v on the mouseport (50mA) to the 5v on the floppy port (250mA).  still nada.
<daftykins> are you fully power cycling the machine between tries?
<shauno> heh, yes
<shauno> like killing the psu before I poke wires in it :)
<diddledan> shauno: I got el capitan installed
<shauno> diddledan: sorry
<shauno> I thought I told you not to?
<diddledan> the most obvious change I noticed is new beachball :-p
<shauno> yes!  it's now flat
<shauno> learn to love the new beachball.  you'll be looking at it a lot :/
<diddledan> lol
<shauno> I beta'd all the things.  total regret.  it's not a good first round
<diddledan> :-(
<shauno> I got the "south atlantic ocean" bug on my watch
<diddledan> ooh?
<diddledan> I don't know what that is
<shauno> if the gps fix isn't good enough it's meant to keep using the last known
<shauno> it now goes to 0,0
<diddledan> oops
<shauno> so half the time my weather is for the 'south atlantic ocean'
<zmoylan-pi> windy with a chance of penguins...
<diddledan> TUX FTW!
 * zmoylan-pi taps barometer...
<daftykins> shauno: in the PSU o0
<zmoylan-pi> so just how of course does google think you're going to get on your yacht? :-P
<shauno> on the plus side, I did manage over 75,000km on my bike this weekend
<daftykins> shauno: how is it, down there?
<zleap> hi
<zleap> does anyone know what size sd card ubuntu mate needs for the Pi2 (or ideal size)
<shauno> 4gb or moar
<zleap> ok
<zmoylan-pi> moar is better
<zleap> so 8 is fine
<zleap> thanks
<zleap> same for snappy i take it
<zmoylan-pi> the longer it's running the more updates which will take space plus your files
<shauno> I tend to stick <64 just because I don't know if the pi does sdxc cards yet
<shauno> it may, it may not, I've not needed more than 32 to care yet
<zleap> ok
<zleap> i have sent a message to the list asking if anyone can come to the torbay tech jam and talk about snappy core
<zleap> at some point
<zmoylan-pi> my original pi b running raspian on 4gb card is down to half a gig free...
<shauno> daftykins: not wires in the psu, no.  but I do make sure the psu is off before I poke things anywhere
<daftykins> :)
<zleap> i know there is an alternate raspbian that can fit in something like 512
<shauno> I've solder a wire to the 5v pin on the adaptor, and shoved it in the floppy port
<zleap> as it is seriosly cut down
<shauno> lessbian is about 750
<shauno> (and have fun googling that)
<zleap> lol
 * diddledan sniggers
<zleap> hmm i have a pic of my local ladies rugby team,  that would make apt desktop wallpaper
<zleap> so is class 4 or 10 more suitable
<zleap> for the pi
<zleap> well pi2
<daftykins> the faster the better
<zleap> ok
<zleap> we are getting 3x pi 2s donated to the tech jam
<zleap> these prices are crazy,  same product different prices and where they have said it is for a specific phone / tablet they charge more
<daftykins> you definitely want to stick to known brands and not be too cheap, lots of fakes out there
<zleap> like kingston
<zleap> they seem pretty good so far
<daftykins> yeah or sandisk etc
<zleap> ok
<zleap>  http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0036V9AGU
<zleap> seems pretty good
<zleap> 16b class 10 for 4.75
<zleap> gb
<daftykins> yip
<daftykins> GB ;]
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> daftykins: so does that look good ?
<zleap> ok also found info on lessbian,  barebones jessie for servers but it should be fine for other stuff too
<zleap> like install python or just X + Scratch
<shauno> I'd just stick with raspbian to be honest, unless there's a genuine need for it
<daftykins> zleap: yep, should be legit from amazon direct
<daftykins> (no funky marketplace sellers)
<zleap> hmm
<zleap> looking at the lessbian site
<zleap> To setup wifi, edit the wpa_supplicant.conf file in /boot directory (also editable from windows)
<zleap> i thought the wpa_supplicant was in /etc
<zleap> not /boot
<shauno> usually.  I think they've misplaced it intentionally so you can set it up without needing access
<shauno> ie, write the card under windows, edit the wifi config under windows, then stick it in a pi and be ready to roll
<zleap> sounds like a good plan
<zleap> i guess it can actually be anywhere so long as a path environment variable can point to it
<shauno> I think that's why I prefer to stick with raspbian; you'll match up better with the billion tutorials for things online
<zmoylan-pi> it's optimised for the hardware
<zleap> raspbian is fine but if all you want to do is stick pi in a robot and use python there is a lot of disk overhead or use for say datalogging
<zleap> you need that extra space i guess
<zleap> it is just nce to have options
<zleap> i wonder if there is a command line tool to set up wpa_config
#ubuntu-uk 2015-06-16
<daftykins> Sony E3 briefing, hmm
<daftykins> this No Man's Sky looks fun
<diddledan> hmm, not sure about jupiter ascending. an interesting concept but I think it's more a prelude to a sequal than a movie in it's own right
<diddledan> very procedural
<diddledan> fun watch if you don't think about it tho
<diddledan> it's got some nice music however
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> that's on my list
<diddledan> next-up methinks will be "kite"
<diddledan> ref: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2044801/
<diddledan> this looks intriguing: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3244512/
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls
<knightwise> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning knightwise
 * brobostigon has a funeral to go to this morning, so is getting his suit ready.
 * knightwise wears a suit allmost every day 
 * brobostigon doesnt get to wear one that often. it feels abit strange.
 * brobostigon also needs to find out a way, of pushing irssi notification to ubuntu touch in real time.
<knightwise> hmm.. still need to go "full ubuntu phone" for a week and see how that works out for me
<knightwise> but i'm a bit scared to do so Âµ
<knightwise> I run my company off my phone
<brobostigon> similerly, there are some curcial features required, like i mentioned above, most of my communication run through irssi.
<brobostigon> crucial*
<knightwise> Calendar , mail , contacts
<knightwise> those are the three most important ones
<brobostigon> yes.
<brobostigon> pebble support would be good too, :)
<knightwise> + i cant always rely on a data connection. Sometimes i'm abroad
<knightwise> then some "offline syncing" would be nice
<knightwise> cant always lean on html5 apps
<brobostigon> definatly.
<knightwise> But i love the battery life. and perhaps the absence of all those (mostly distracting) apps is not such a bad thing after all.
<knightwise> Counting down the days untill my Dell XPS gets here
<brobostigon> :) hehe
<knightwise> been playing on the Surface Pro I use for my meetings; Also not a bad machine
<MooDoo> morning all
<knightwise> hey MooDoo
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<brobostigon> now heres an idea, integrate xmpp/fb-messenger/hangouts/etc into messaging on ubuntu touch?
<diplo> brobostigon, pidgin or jitsi can do that? Then again fb messenger and hangouts don't have public apis anymore ?
<brobostigon> diplo: ok, let me see if they have ports to ubuntu touch.
<diplo> I've seen people talking about it, that was a few weeks/month ago
<diplo> But not seen any code
<brobostigon> ok,
<awilkins> diplo, Google chat still works for me from bitlbee (which I think is using XMPP)
<awilkins> Although I'm told this is because there is a bridge from Google Talk to Hangouts
<davmor2> Morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Fresh Veggies Day! ð
<MartijnVdS> ewww veggies
<JamesTait> Funny that I just spent an hour in the garden.
<davmor2> JamesTait: sunbathing isn't anything to do with fresh veg, nor is a water fight with the kids :P
<JamesTait> Awww. :(
<MartijnVdS> ð
<popey> Happy birthday AlanBell
<davmor2> Hippo Birdy Indeed Mr Bell :)
<SuperMatt> http://devopsreactions.tumblr.com/post/121661216099/the-new-kernel-is-here
<foobarry> SuperMatt: every post on that tumbler is brilliant
<foobarry> http://devopsreactions.tumblr.com/post/118933329057/bash-ls-command-not-found
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<SuperMatt> foobarry: I've had that one. not fun.
<SuperMatt> it generally means that someone has done something remarkably messy
<SuperMatt> as someone did the other day "mv / /home"
<directhex> http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2015/06/16/ouyas-been-bought-out-by-razer
<popey> indeed
<davmor2> bigcalm: hey dude, how's life
<bigcalm> Hi davmor2. Today it is noisey. Workmen are installing a pod of 6 desks at our office
<davmor2> bigcalm: you expanding or something?
<bigcalm> davmor2: looks like it
<bigcalm> Hotdesking I believe
<foobarry> what do lego call it?
<foobarry> found some of that programme a bit :-|
<foobarry> i suppose when you hire fans it can get rather cult-ish (google, lego, apple, etc)
<foobarry> and then when you control staff begaviour...
<foobarry> directhex: before you bin your touchpad..i heard 5.x is out for it
<directhex> ebayed that ages ago
<foobarry> heh
<foobarry> get anything for it?
<foobarry> mine has damaged case where i replaced the screen
<foobarry> and is really slow for some reason
<neeetz> I get this error everytime Processing was halted because there were too many errors. E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1) , looks like there is some python package reoved from the system
<directhex> neeetz: sounds like an issue with your package database. fixable, but hard to do remotely. if you can pastebin *complete* messages, and obey instructions *precisely*, it can be fixed
<neeetz> directhex:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/11724293/
<directhex> hm. python-minimal missing
<directhex> 14.04
<directhex> 32 or 64 bit?
<neeetz> directhex:  64
<directhex> download http://es.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/p/python-defaults/python-minimal_2.7.5-5ubuntu3_amd64.deb and try installing it with "dpkg -i python-minimal_2.7.5-5ubuntu3_amd64.deb"
<neeetz> directhex:  dpkg won't work
<directhex> remember what i said about complete messages?
<neeetz> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11724293/
<neeetz> directhex:  i posted it
<neeetz> :/
<neeetz> directhex:  when i run dpkg
<directhex> that's the output from "dpkg -i python-minimal_2.7.5-5ubuntu3_amd64.deb" ?
<directhex> because to me, something beginning "Reading package lists... Done" is output from apt, not dpkg
<neeetz> directhex:  done
<neeetz> directhex:  i did dpkg , it installed
<neeetz> directhex:  but when i do apt-get update , same error
<directhex> update or upgrade?
<directhex> i'm going to go and do my exercise in about 5 minutes. you have until then before i disappear for an hour
<knightwise> damn. I just upgraded mps-youtube on my raspberry and now i'm getting a bunch of errors :(
<knightwise> http://pastebin.com/iKkiv9wS
<popey> maybe install python-requests
<knightwise> giving it a try
<knightwise> nope :( same error
<knightwise> hmm. i did the upgrade via pip install so .. it should work
<popey> oh, no idea then
<popey> you probably need to pip install some other nonsense then
<knightwise> hmmm.. i'll check again.
<knightwise> Found it. Needed to install newer version of pip
<knightwise> pip-3.2 instead of "regular" pip
<diddledan> quiet in here today
 * zmoylan-pi waters the tumbleweed and listens to coyotes in distance...
<diddledan> so I want a 4k display
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> hidpi ftw
<zmoylan-pi> then get mame running and play space invaders in 4k...
<diddledan> does mame do upscaling?
<zmoylan-pi> it's not about the res it's about doing something silly to annoy others :-P
<diddledan> lol
<zmoylan-pi> make sure to point out the dolby system... :-D
<diddledan> dolby +adlib
<diddledan> i.e. adlib card emulation ouput on a dolby surround system
<zmoylan-pi> bonus points for getting zx spectrum games running on that rig... :-)
<daftykins> just unboxed a Lenovo X1 carbon :O
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/e83vhve5shdm93f/AADzIc9NZrlUiK-Oer-nBlkCa?dl=
<diddledan> win7?
<daftykins> yeah it shipped with a downgrade
<daftykins> Lenovo won't ship to us down here, so i had to go to dabs - they and most etailers seem to sell the win7 downgrade models
<diddledan> well that's silly
<diddledan> win8.1 is the new shiny :-p
<daftykins> it's a turd and business knows it
<diplo> Anyone tried Win10 preview ?
<daftykins> but it will be better for this machine, given this is one of the WQHD models :o
<daftykins> diplo: yep been using it for a long time
<daftykins> been through 3 or 4 builds
<diddledan> I'm on it right now
<diddledan> I've been using it since the first release
<diplo> Just debating whether to get the upgrade on work laptop or just leave it on 7
<daftykins> no point taking action now, it'll be available for a year
<daftykins> i suspect the upgrade installs will cause some drama for some :)
<diddledan> and rtm will be out in 6 weeks
<shauno> anyone in / overly familiar with southampton?
<diplo> Not overly but can drive around it and through parts of it.. if you want street names no
<diplo> :)
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i've flown in a few times over the years!
<shauno> trying to figure my chances of getting from the airport to hamble in ~30 minutes
<daftykins> well the train station is right beside, if that's any good to you
<shauno> so mostly "how bad is the m27 at 10am on a friday"
<shauno> yeah I was looking at that, but the train out from there is every 20 minutes
<shauno> so it could be perfect, or I could be quite late, depending on which end of "every 20 minutes" I hit
<diplo> shauno: M27 is fine at that sort of time imo
<diplo> Any time between 7:30~ and 9 it's awful
<shauno> hm.  I may chance it then
<shauno> trying to decide if a taxi that morning will be quick enough, or if I have to arrive the night before and find somewhere to crash.  and it's close
<ging> is there a way to get newer intel graphic driver on ubuntu 14.04 without upgrading to 14.10 ?
<diddledan> why?
<diddledan> you can install the HWE
<diddledan> that's about it
<ging> there is some drm problem which keeps shutting down the screen on my laptop
<diddledan> drm as in digital restrictions management?
<daftykins> ging: have you confirmed it's resolved in a newer mainline kernel?
<ging> daftykins: no am just hoping new drivers would fix it
<daftykins> ging: well that's what you'd get by throwing a newer kernel on to test :)
<daftykins> !mainline
<lubotu3> The kernel team supply continuous mainline kernel builds which can be useful for tracking down issues or testing recent changes in the Linux kernel. More information is available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/MainlineBuilds
<daftykins> maybe do a backup, try one... see if it solves anything
<ging> daftykins: i've done nothing, it's a standard install
<ging> there was a tool from intel which installs the latest drivers, except for some reason they only do it for the lastest distro
<diddledan> DON'T DO THAT
<ging> they have withdrawn the 14.04 one
<diddledan> hardware drivers direct from the manufacturer invariably mess-up ubuntu - only use drivers provided by the ubuntu repos
<daftykins> ging: never run any of those intel installers :P
<directhex> i know who writes the intel installer
<directhex> he's a good dev
<ging> do you know why they revoke the old ones?
<ging> seems a bit odd, unless they become redundant because the latest working driver gets build in
<daftykins> directhex: does that change it being wise to apply to an ubuntu installation?
<directhex> it should be harmless if it's not helpful
<directhex> ging: bingo
<daftykins> just gets peoples systems into a mess when trying to help in #ubuntu
<diplo> https://letsencrypt.org/2015/06/16/lets-encrypt-launch-schedule.html
<TwistedLucidity> diplo: Woo!
<diddledan> nice that "A cross-signature from IdenTrust will be in place for general availability, so that our certificates will validate automatically for the vast majority of consumers." - means they don't need to wait for beaurocracy of the various browsers
<bujji> how i can build my won distro?
<directhex> if you need to ask...
<diddledan> bujji: www.linuxfromscratch.com
<diddledan> or maybe .org
<bujji> .com is not working
<diddledan> if you mean "spin of ubuntu" then that's not creating your own distro
<bujji> spin of ubunntu ?
<directhex> diddledan: is steamos a distro? where's the line?
<directhex> bujji: what do you *actually* want to achieve, exactly?
<diddledan> directhex: I guess the line is if you're providing custom packages or not
<directhex> diddledan: add one PPA to the defaults, you count as a distro?
<diddledan> directhex: no
<bujji> directhex:how i can build my own distro.?
<directhex> bujji: what do you think that actually means?
<directhex> bujji: what is your understanding of what a distro is, and what it contains?
<directhex> and in what way do you want to deviate from what already exists?
<bujji> directhex:how i can build this ubuntu dtribuion
<directhex> what would you like to do to ubuntu? add things? remove things? change existing things?
<diddledan> directhex: I think the line is somewhat blurry - I suggest that the difference between spin and distro is 1) philosophical and personal, 2) dependant on how much you change from a base distro if you're subclassing
<shauno> LFS actually isn't a bad suggestion for bujji I think
<diddledan> shauno: \o/
<directhex> shauno: you don't know that. they haven't made it even slightly clear what they want to achieve
<diddledan> directhex: he's a regular offender
<bashrc> Donald Trump running for president, apparently
<shauno> I've been talking to him on and off for days now.  I'm pretty convinced he's not actually trying to achieve anything, just trying to understand as much as he can
<diddledan> at least this time it's actually on-topic rather than random financial questions
<daftykins> lol.
<daftykins> i missed those
<bujji> diddledan:offender..am  did anything wrong?
<diddledan> bujji: no, it's just a turn-of-phrase
<bujji> shauno:yes,i am knowing things...if i know then  can apply..you people already did some of the things you can suggest me the way to achieve ))
<bujji> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9K-iUJgFhWA
<daftykins> and off he goes
<directhex> "what exactly are you trying to achieve" is *such* a hard question for beginners @_@
<shauno> I genuinely thing he's not trying to achieve anything
<shauno> we spent *hours* going over hardlinks and symlinks without the slightest hint of practical application
<diddledan> I suggest that sometimes it's important to work out what you can get away with not knowing
<diddledan> i.e. I've never looked at kernel development because I don't need to know about it
<diddledan> that "i.e." would probably read better as an "e.g." :-)
<brobostigon> ok, question, form my research, messaging in ubuntu touch uses telepathy, so why not just add the telepathy xmpp modules, could work?
<diddledan> could you try rephrasing that?
<brobostigon> sudo aptitude install telepathy-gabble
<davmor2> brobostigon: are you in the right window or are you losing the arguement with yourself ;)
<brobostigon> davmor2: wouldnt that work though, because if messaging picks up on telepathy, adding that, would give it that ability?
<davmor2> brobostigon: we have no idea what you want to do. Yes you can add it you then need a client to use it ie empathy, then you need to talk to accounts to use it which means you need to install accounts-gabble or something like that
<davmor2> the telepathy stuff is just backend
<diddledan> I'm surprised xmpp isn't availble in empathy already
<diddledan> afaict it should be default
<davmor2> brobostigon: APT-Manual-Installed: yes on apt show telepathy-gabble
<brobostigon> davmor2: good point, i am aiming for xmpp to show, ie, you add an xmpp acount like the other, and then messages from said xmpp to show in messages.
<davmor2> brobostigon: so open empathy
<brobostigon> others*
<davmor2> brobostigon: add your account and done
<davmor2> brobostigon: it's installed by default
<davmor2> brobostigon: right next :)
<brobostigon> davmor2: so i can run empathy on ubuntu touch?
<davmor2> brobostigon: you said nothing about ubuntu touch
<brobostigon> 17:18:34 < brobostigon> ok, question, form my research, messaging in ubuntu touch uses telepathy, so why not  just add the telepathy xmpp modules, could work?
<brobostigon> i did,
<ali1234> it was literally the first line ^
<davmor2> brobostigon: oh sorry my mistake misread it
<brobostigon> davmor2: no worries.
<davmor2> brobostigon: no you would still need a client.  there is no chat client
<ali1234> so a more interesting question, is can we rip the excellent skype/empathy libraries from an N900 and use those on ubuntu touch?
<davmor2> ali1234: possibly
<brobostigon> davmor2: thats what i am trying to solve, and make it consistant with the rest of the messaging.
<ali1234> in theory that's the whole point of empathy
<ali1234> makes all the different chat services appear in one place
<davmor2> brobostigon: so theoretically it's possible
<brobostigon> davmor2: thats what i thought, and am thinking of ways to achieve it.
<ali1234> wait
<ali1234> i'm getting them mixed up
<ali1234> telepathy is the lib, empathy is the ui?
<diddledan> ali1234: yes
<ali1234> so does ubuntu touch have a telepathy UI by default?
<brobostigon> because, it would be better, to not have a seperate xmpp client, but have everything consistantly together, rather than to seperate apps for the same job.
<ali1234> maybe empathy, maybe something else?
<diddledan> grr @ putin - gonna ADD 40 additional nuclear ballistics
 * brobostigon is making a list, of issues he needs to file.
 * brobostigon likes making lists.
 * diddledan adds brobostigon to "the list"
<diddledan> (people I'm going to murdorise)
<diddledan> :-p
 * brobostigon is all sad now, he dont want to be murdered.
<diddledan> well it serves you right for making lists :-D
<brobostigon> eh, :)
<diddledan> everyone who makes lists gets on my list of people to bump-off
<brobostigon> does that include david cameron?
<diddledan> defo
 * brobostigon approves.
<diddledan> he's the worst list-maker
<shauno> just make sure to put yourself at the bottom of your own list.  if you're at the top it doesn't work so well
<diddledan> oh.
<diddledan> hmm.
<diddledan> dammit.
<diddledan> ffs. der spiegel is reporting that websites are responsible for insults made by their users
<daftykins> :/
<diddledan> http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/netzpolitik/gerichtshof-urteilt-zu-beleidigungen-in-nutzerforen-a-1039058.html
<daftykins> that's ridiculous
<diddledan> it's also germany that's insisting that copyright means that if I want to link to der spiegel I've got to pay der spiegel for the privilege
<diddledan> so I owe them monies for the link I just popped above
<diddledan> o_O graham clueless is suggesting emoji passwords as a solution to someone guessing your password
<diddledan> (beware, I am about to owe someone else monies for linking!): http://www.tripwire.com/state-of-security/security-data-protection/could-emoji-passwords-be-safer-for-online-bank-users/
 * knightwise thinks what the emoji for "piece of sh*t-pizza" would look like
<diddledan> surely that's just a combo of the "pizza slice" emoji with the "pile of poo" emoji?
<shauno> ð©ð?
<diddledan> >.<
<diddledan> I can't read that
<diddledan> windows ftl
<shauno> that's okay.  you have no functional requirement to read my passwords :)
<shauno> (and emoji passwords don't need some fantastic tech someone has to announce.  just handle utf properly)
<intrbiz> i'd be interested if by people constructing a story would introduce a statistical bias and thus weakness
<diddledan> I really don't understand why websites and such don't just pass the raw data into the encyprtion routines instead of insisting that they be valid ascii
<shauno> my theory is the harder systems try to be clever, the harder they go wrong
<shauno> like claiming my 22-digit passwords aren't secure because they don't contain letters.  or worse, that they're too long
<intrbiz> shauno: isn't that just restating systems theory
<diddledan> I hate those systems that claim for a secure password I must not use symbols and be less than 15 characters
<intrbiz> cough verified by visa
<intrbiz> banning non-alphanumerics irritates me the most
<MartijnVdS> 7-bit ASCII only!
<davmor2> ali1234: telepathy and mission-control are on the phone and desktop by default
<davmor2> brobostigon: in theory you could include telepathy-gable and make a basic chat client window that talks to it
<brobostigon> davmor2: thats what i had in mind as well.
<davmor2> brobostigon: there is talk of adding functions to the messaging app as a kinda all in one chat client and the same for telepathy-sofiasip and the dialer app but I have no idea how far off that is
<brobostigon> davmor2: thats an interesting idea.
<brobostigon> davmor2: do us normals humans, have a chance to look at all this?
<brobostigon> normal*
<Azelphur> Hey folks, I created /etc/init/deluged.conf and now sudo service deluged start says unrecognized service, any ideas?
<Azelphur> is there something Ihave to do to make upstart aware of it?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: yes... I think so
<MartijnVdS> but I'm on a systemd machine atm so I can't really check
<diddledan_> chris evans is the jeremy clarkson replacement?
<daftykins> *entire
<brobostigon> yep.
<brobostigon> apparently.
<awilkins_> WELCOME TO GINGER TOPGEAR
<brobostigon> lolx v.x~
<brobostigon> ~ = infinate.
<daftykins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11727205/ - what's making grub-mkconfig trip up on each of the functions within /etc/default/grub ? http://paste.ubuntu.com/11727153/
<daftykins> (i refer to line 27's return code 127)
<diddledan_> daftykins: what's in /etc/default/grub?
<diddledan_> daftykins: it should be bash script
<daftykins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11727153/
<daftykins> this apparently :S
<diddledan_> yeah that looks wrong
<diddledan_> hang on, let me boot an ubuntu
<daftykins> yeah somehow this user has had the file substitute the normal looking 'grub'
<diddledan_> somehow being they either did something wrong or followed incorrect advice
<diddledan_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11727334/
<diddledan_> that's mine
<daftykins> *nod* gonna throw in a default and run sudo update-grub i think
<diddledan> dangit
<daftykins> diddledan: yep replace and update-grub sorted it
<daftykins> diddledan: Lenovo X1 Carbon clean install - https://www.dropbox.com/s/ddj93shalr5m9v5/IMG_20150616_223246.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> jaybers
<diddledan> hmm: http://www.novatech.co.uk/products/monitors/4kuhdmonitors/210-acok.html
<daftykins> if it's TN - don't touch, if it's IPS - go ahead
<daftykins> ah hit spec page
<diddledan> TN?
<daftykins> yep that's TN, that'll suck
<daftykins> Twisted Neumatic, a type of LCD
<daftykins> they're the ones where the colours invert very quickly at different viewing angles
<daftykins> so they're only good when looking straight on
<daftykins> In Plane Switching (IPS) are way better from all angles
<daftykins> heh was just looking up videos of this French telco to find out how you pronounce it
<daftykins> off the islands here you can sometimes see "FR Bouygues"
<ali1234> "bogeys"
<daftykins> no :P
<daftykins> though that's what a client was claiming XD
<ali1234> yes, but it annoys them
<daftykins> seems they just say 'Bwee'
#ubuntu-uk 2015-06-17
<daftykins> hrmm video on the xbox about the backwards compatibility, they've basically written an emulator that has a slimmed down version of the 360 dashboard...
<daftykins> so then you download every title as a package
<zmoylan-pi> does it emulate the red rings of death? :-)
<daftykins> such pessimism
<zmoylan-pi> will there be an addon pack to scratch discs? :-)
<daftykins> never had that
<diddledan> so it seems osx 10.11 (el capitan, beta) can't erase optical discs via the UI
<diddledan> and therefore telling it to "burn image" from the right-click menu on a .iso file just tells you that you need to erase the media first (when you're reusing a previously burnt disc)
<diddledan> and.. it must be summer.. there's brightness in the sky already and it's still only 4:20
<zmoylan-pi> the birds will start tweeting soon enough, how they pay for internet access is another story...
<diddledan> they use wireless
<zmoylan-pi> then why are they always perched on phone wires?
<diddledan> http://www.drzvrs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/wifi-bird.jpeg
<diddledan> so. bq e5 is launched on the 22nd without a queue. the meizu is undated yet, and will have a weird origami thing to solve to get access to the queue, but is a beast of a phone. do I wait for the meizu or order the bq?
<diddledan> we need popey to do some secret espionage things to give us advice on such matterws
<zmoylan-pi> he can typo once for yes and twice for no... :-)
 * diddledan tpyos there temis
 * diddledan tpyos there temis again
<mapps> yello
<mapps> ;D
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<mapps> playing paddle tomorrow
<mapps> ;]
<mapps> im rather rubbish heh
<diddledan> mornin all
<knightwise> hey diddledan
<MooDoo> hello all
<diddledan> m00
<MooDoo> :)
<TheGeek> morning
<popey> hello
<ne2k> is it possible to see the contents of a print job that's on the queue, i.e. an image showing what will be printed? I've googled for "show contents of print job on queue cups OR ubuntu" and similar things but the results are all just about viewing the list of jobs, not the contents
<TwistedLucidity> ne2k: I may well be wrong, but I am going to go with "No". To show an image, something would have to render it and I doubt the queue manager would be able to do that from the data it has
<TwistedLucidity> Be a really neat feature to have though
<ne2k> TwistedLucidity, so, by the time it hits the print spool directory, it's been converted into a format specific to that printer, and the generic data before that has been discarded? so to view it, you'd need to have an emulator for /that/ printer.
<TwistedLucidity> ne2k: Was a total guess on my part. *Something* has to know what it's going to look like (the printer needs to print it!) it's more a case of whether or not that "something" can be asked to show page 1.
<TwistedLucidity> I guess it's possible in theory, but the fact it isn't done makes me thing the API etc simply doens't exist.
<TwistedLucidity> But I'd wait for an expert. I'm probably talking out my hat.
<diddledan> there might be a .ps file somewhere in /var while it's in the queue
<ne2k> TwistedLucidity, seems there's a PDF file in /var/spool/cups/d*<jobno>*
<diddledan> probably something in /var/spool/cups
<diddledan> ^ that
<ne2k> diddledan, try... every job ever printed is still there
<TwistedLucidity> Really?
<diddledan> hmm, that could become a diskspace sinkhole then :-p
 * TwistedLucidity goes to check
<TwistedLucidity> Yowzah!
<diddledan> how many?
<ne2k> thirty-eight
<ne2k> (I'm not a heavy printer user, as you can possibly tell)
<TwistedLucidity> I've got the dirs, but they all appear to be emtpy...
<ne2k> I just have lots of d* and c* files
<TwistedLucidity> Anyway, there's the PDF/ps in there - guess it's a case of getting it on the screen. Could the print manager hook the "preview" feature than many file managers have? Or could the driver/whatever genrate a raster for the queue manager?
<ne2k> TwistedLucidity, that would be handy
<TwistedLucidity> I actually deal with similar problems in my day job, just not with printers.
<TwistedLucidity> Yeah, I seem to have some PDFs, some ps files and some...goodness knows whats
<davmor2> Morning all
<diddledan> allo
<TheGeek> howdy
<TwistedLucidity> ne2k: Seems I only get previews for image files, not PDFs/ODTs etc. Guess there would a big performance hit in constantly calling the relevant apps unless they generated a raster at save time and that was (somehow) linked in a known way to the native.
<TwistedLucidity> Out of curiosity, does anything clean-up /var/spool/cups ? I would have assumed the files got deleted once the job had been run.
<foobarry> are they successful print jobs
<foobarry> i expect anything sitting in spool has not printed (yet)
<awilkins> Nope, my /var/spool/cups is full of files
<awilkins> Not printed anything in months
<foobarry> how old are the files
<foobarry> oh yeah, i have tiny files
<foobarry> going back to install date
<foobarry> "2) PreserveJobHistory No is not in my 8.04 cups.conf; it had to be added.
<foobarry> "
<foobarry> i think thats the answer TwistedLucidity
<foobarry> vi /etc/cups/cupsd.conf.default
<foobarry> woops
<TwistedLucidity> Ahhhhhh.....
<foobarry> how id that autocomplete from irssi :S
<TwistedLucidity> I'll check the GUI in a moment...just out of curiosity
<awilkins> There's an option
<awilkins> "Advanced server settings"
<awilkins> Default is "preserve job history but not files"
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Eat Your Vegetables Day!
<davmor2> JamesTait: what is it with you and vegetables recently
<JamesTait> Must be something in the water, davmor2.
 * davmor2 bans JamesTait from drinking the water so we can either have meatier days or geekier days
<JamesTait> Apple Strudel Day?
<davmor2> JamesTait: that'll do
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> brobostigon: I logged off when you asked your question last night, the chat stuff I don't think is on the tickets at all yet, too many things to get right with what we have :)
<diddledan> hmm, methinks my old lga775 mobo's sata is dying
<JamesTait> brobostigon, o/
<diddledan> getting "ATA bus error"
<brobostigon> davmor2: very true, yes, however it is something, one of us can work out how to do, and then pass it onto them, less work for them as well.
<brobostigon> morning JamesTait
<davmor2> brobostigon: indeed there is nothing that I know to to stop a person contributing to the project at all
<brobostigon> davmor2: thats my thinking as well, :)
<diddledan> ok, moving the drive to a different port seems to have sorted it
<Myrtti> well it is a good vegetable season
<Myrtti> I've already had first veggies from our Hozelock boxes
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bashrc> morning
<foobarry> whats a hozelock box myrrti?
<foobarry> Myrtti:
<Myrtti> http://www.hozelock.com/wateringsolutions/flower-vegetable-waterer-2811-1970.html
<Myrtti> they've got a growbag version too
<Myrtti> it's a bit dear but spares from good amount of stress
<Myrtti> the knitting machine is turning out great fun.
<Myrtti> I've ordered the Arduino parts for it now
<bashrc> knitting machine?
<Myrtti> yeah. Brother Electroknit KH-910, originally using Mylar sheets and an optical reader to electronically control the needles for doing different knitting patterns
<Myrtti> take the original control board off and it can be modified to be controlled on any computer by the help of an Arduino Uno and a specific shield made for it
<Myrtti> works a treat in Ubuntu :->
<davmor2> Myrtti: did you ever get your sound issue fixed by the way?
<Myrtti> I complained hard enough to DellCares on Twitter, I think the "I've tried it now with LiveUSB of Ubuntu and problem persists, also, if this were Developer Version of XPS13 9333, how would you treat me then" did the trick and they've apparently scheduled something to happen, I assume a phone call
<davmor2> Myrtti: :(
<intrbiz> I always hate stupid tech support and having to pull the line, that I know what I'm talking about, so stop with the bs
<directhex> most people who pull that line... don't
<Myrtti> well I just didn't want to reinstall Windows just to run a diagnostics test...
<TheGeek> alrighty
<Myrtti> kek http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/jun/17/kitchen-gadgets-review-ikettle-boil-phone
<popey> czajkowski: is that the kettle you have!?
<popey> it looks familiar
<popey> his reviews are very funny!
<popey> http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/jun/10/kitchen-gadgets-review-immersible-egg-timer-yolk-burstingly-good
<popey> "There was also a slight smell the first time I used it, which kind of reminded me I was boiling a lump of plastic with my breakfast"
<bigcalm> Eugh, I had one of those egg timers. Didn't work well and stank
<popey> yeah, someone gave me one of those, never used it
<popey> i just use the timer on the oven
<popey> we use that for timing _everything_
<awilkins> The basic clock app in Android is really good if you have multiple things
<awilkins> Because you can add multiple labelled countdown timers
<awilkins> An android wall surface in the kitchen would be great if you could set them via voice commands
<awilkins> You can set timers by voice but I can't get it to set the labels
<popey> or that amazon thing
<zmoylan-pi> <unrecognised command arrrrrrghhhh my hand> :-)
<czajkowski> popey: nope sage
<daftykins> hrmm never used apt in place of apt-get before, nice progress bar
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/zwn5vy0zczoosxt/apt-progress.png?dl=0
<popey> yeah, i have to keep reminding myself to use apt
<daftykins> doesn't seem to have auto-remove so it doesn't appear to do it all?
<daftykins> lol "apt remove package+ " will install instead of remove, why would you even...
<zmoylan-pi> to flush out the ocd folk who say it's perfectly logical? :-)
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/e83vhve5shdm93f/AADzIc9NZrlUiK-Oer-nBlkCa?dl=0
<daftykins> my set of pics and a video of a clean setup on that Lenovo X1 Carbon i have here
<daftykins> i'm gonna try an ubuntu live session out on it today i think
<daftykins> http://i.imgur.com/JJcq37s.jpg - ubuntu unity on this 2560x1440 Lenovo X1 Carbon, 1.25x scaling
<daftykins> http://i.imgur.com/0X3yocv.jpg - 1.00x scaling
<bigcalm_> Hummf
<Myrtti> awwwww http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/jun/17/stephen-elop-leaves-microsoft-nokia-smartphones
<daftykins> http://i.imgur.com/Ew2Sj46.jpg - CentOS 7 to keep my mate happy ;)
<daftykins> no scaling, 3.10 kernel, wifi doesn't work out of the box - poor :>
<davmor2> daftykins: but servers don't user wifi ;)
<daftykins> heh, my physics PhD mate uses it for all his sciencey software
<jpds> daftykins: https://d1rktuf34l9h2g.cloudfront.net/7/75/75c1b58a_3trz9o.jpeg
<daftykins> jpds: fail to see the relevance but ok
<jpds> daftykins: Last line of your last screenshot.
<daftykins> meh
<foobarry> anyone bought from tinydeal? seems cheaper for chinese tat than ebay/amazon
<foobarry> for same product
<davmor2> foobarry: try it and let us know
<MartijnVdS> is it like dealextreme?
<foobarry> davmor2: i just did
<foobarry> http://www.tinydeal.com/fashion-new-xiaomi-miband-smart-bracelet-silicone-band-watch-p-139192.html
<foobarry> looks like an ebay seller has just set up a massive store outside of ebay
<daftykins> foobarry: probably cheaper as a customer would have less recourse when things go wrong, as opposed to with ebay
<diddledan> who's next for the elopalypse, then, now that microsoft has given him the boot
<awilkins_> Hah, all as planned
<awilkins_> Elop delivers Nokia into MS hands
<awilkins_> Paid off. Gets to retire comfy.
<zmoylan-pi> they've just released the trojan horse again
<awilkins_> No-one would hire him again
<awilkins_> Not unless they like the climate in Redmond
<zmoylan-pi> never underestimate the stupidity of management
<diddledan> he doesn't just do it for redmond tho - he did exactly the samemaneuver with adobe and macromedia IIRC
<diddledan> brb, reboobing
<zmoylan-pi> brb, rebooting.  the 'i may be gone for some time' of our era...
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> well we have cars able to drive to the north pole these days
<zmoylan-pi> only if they float, and he went walkabout at the southpole
<diddledan> southpole, minor detail. and you've not watched topgear
<diddledan> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Gear:_Polar_Special
<zmoylan-pi> i've seen it.
<shauno> (that was magnetic north)
<shauno> eg canada
<m0nkey_> winning!
<diddledan_> windows doesn't like me
<m0nkey_> i dont like you!
<m0nkey_> nah, just kidding
<m0nkey_> diddledan_, WHY U NO USE ZNC?
#ubuntu-uk 2015-06-18
<mapps> hi all;D
<knightwise> heya mapps
<MooDoo> morning
<diplo> Morning
<popey> f/78
<popey> oof
<popey> hello :)
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> bigcalm: you and your firm might want to have a look at this http://arstechnica.com/security/2015/06/serious-os-x-and-ios-flaws-let-hackers-steal-keychain-1password-contents/
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> morning brobostigon
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<brobostigon> morning davmor2 and MooDoo
<davmor2> morning MooDoo me owld mucka
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: ta
<TwistedLucidity> XARA attack. Nice name.
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy International Picnic Day! ð
<zmoylan-pi> picnic... on a thursday... well that's well thought out...
<zmoylan-pi> would be better as floating holiday.  3rd saturday of jun sort of thing
<davmor2> JamesTait: again with the trying to make us eat cold vegetables
 * davmor2 is thinking JamesTait is on a diet or something with all this health food crap ;)
<zmoylan-pi> nah, cheese is best.  you can hike anywhere and drop it in lake, burn your rucksack, drop it, squash it and it might still be edible :-)
 * zmoylan-pi makes mental note to get some cheese for weekends gaming...
<JamesTait> davmor2, sausage rolls, pork pies, cheese rolls - all veggies! ð
<JamesTait> zmoylan-pi, cheese is the way forward, I agree.
<zmoylan-pi> well the cow the sausage roll was made from was a vegetarian so that counts, right? :-D
<JamesTait> Definitely!
<Myrtti> Dell onsite just called and they're coming between 11 and 12
 * zmoylan-pi starts taking bets
<Myrtti> had to clear out a lot of plant repotting kit, soldering station, yarn scraps, discarded pieces of single core wire and resistors and sewing machine away
<davmor2> Myrtti: wow so no phone call they are actually turning up
<Myrtti> yeah
<zmoylan-pi> optimism... raises the odds of them turning up... :-P
<Myrtti> keeping in mind this is a refurb bought from eBay
<Myrtti> so I'm surprised I got this far
<Myrtti> although it seemed a very reputable refurb company
<zmoylan-pi> maybe the original owner logged a ticket and now years later it's going to happen? :-)
<Myrtti> the speakers worked fine before, so it's a new fault
<Myrtti> OF COURSE it's doing a FULL BACKUP now.
<Myrtti> sweet jebus
<Myrtti> grrr
<mapppps> :)
<mapppps> Urgh why is ot always such a chore going to doctors or hospital
<mapppps> Almost an hour after the time i was told!!
<zmoylan-pi> because you're not well when you go there?
<mapppps> I mean the waiting
<mapppps> I waa told 11:10 local time
<mapppps> Now 11:57
<diplo> Because they allow 5~ mins per appointment and if each person before you takes 8mins~ it all adds up
<diplo> Although I agree it sucks :/
<Laney> scary massive bang on the window
<Laney> forgot the window cleaner was here
<mapppps> Almost an hour over
<mapppps> Gah
<mapppps> Am i ever going to be seen
<foobarry> #firstworldproblems amazon delivery has been delivered to a neighbour 3 doors down. thats outside my usual talking range
<mapppps> Hahaj
<mapppps> I had like three parcels delivered to me by amaaon not fot me but s diff street luckily the guy came back and realises
<mapppps> Realised when he still had my stuff :)
<mapppps> If i left this and jist go to a&e in uk tomorrow surely theyd sort it for me ?
<bashrc> foobarry: could you use a megaphone?
<diplo> mapppps: at my docs, if you wait over 30 mins I think, you're supposed to go see the receptionist
<foobarry> at the walk-in clinic at A&E i waited 4hrs will a swollen face and then went home
<directhex> a&e works on a triage basis. you may wait a long time because an ambulance just brought in a person in multiple pieces
<directhex> doctor's appointments... exactly as diplo said
<directhex> it's frustrating as hell, but "efficiency" means keeping the pipeline stuffed, means booking in more people than can be seen in the time, to ensure the doctor is never sat twiddling their thumbs
<directhex> "eliminating wastage" is what causes delays for appointments, by removing any kind of buffer to timing
<foobarry> we have an urgent care centre now, its better
<directhex> tl;dr: bloody tories
<foobarry> if you aren't in pieces
<mapps> yay all done
<mapps> diplo she just cae out and said anyone waiting for dressing
<mapps> took like 1min to have 3 stitches removed;p waited 1hr10
<foobarry> ubuntu sysadmins..
<mapps> so basically dont get hit over the head with a bottle
<mapps> or expect a wait
<foobarry> can i ask ubuntu to only auto install kernels with security updates ?
<jpds> foobarry: Yep.
<jpds> But there only really is a concept of a 'kernel upgrade'.
<Myrtti> oh sweet jebus. android backup?
<Myrtti> 5Gigs
<foobarry> http://askubuntu.com/questions/194/how-can-i-install-just-security-updates-from-the-command-line
<mapps> head has a bi old scab tho now;/
<jpds> foobarry: You want: /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/10periodic and /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50unattended-upgrades
<mapps> hopefully wont repeat this incident ..ever again
<foobarry> thanks jpds looks like security only is already checked :_|
<jpds> foobarry: Which is potentially a bad thing as things from -security move to -updates after a few hours.
<kjvarley> My linux server is pinging 8.8.8.8 and I'm not sure why. Over 3000 sessions to it. Any ideas how I can find out what application is making the connections ?
<foobarry> netstat -plant
<foobarry> hmm, that doesn't register icmp
<kjvarley> It's weird cos netstat isn't showing the sessions but the router is
<foobarry> you sure it's pinging?
<kjvarley> Well - 3000 sessions to 8.8.8.8
<kjvarley> It keeps going up
<foobarry> "sessions"
<foobarry> are you sure its not dns requests?
<foobarry> use tcpdump or iptraf to inspec teh traffic
<popey> kjvarley: you're saying "pinging", do you really mean "ping" or do you mean "talking to"?
<kjvarley> Sorry yes I mean talking to
<kjvarley> I've just got IP Traf installed
<popey> 8.8.8.8 is google dns
<popey> if that's your dns server then expect this
<kjvarley> How come it is doing so many DNS lookups? And why isn't it closing the sessions afterwards?
<kjvarley> Seems to be doing about 1000 checks within a 5 minute period
<kjvarley> How can I further diagnose this ?
<foobarry> tcpdump host 8.8.8.8
<foobarry> ugly way could be to start killing processes until tcpdump stops showing stuffs. (it may not stop if networkmanager is polling dns for some reason)
<popey> kjvarley: what is running on the box?
<kjvarley> foobarry: that shows nothing which is weird
<kjvarley> foobarry: Oh okay, it's started showing now
<kjvarley> popey: ZoneMinder CCTV box. But I have stopped zoneminder, apache2 and mysql
<kjvarley> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11734866/
<popey> is it looking up mail server dns records?
<popey> is there a mailserver on that box?
<popey> or is it sending a lot of mail
<ujjain> I have a quesiton about hangovers and beer. Is it normal that your legs feel a bit less useful/strong next morning after beers? walking stairs sometimes crappy
<ujjain> also, I want to make a claim of compensation to a money, where could I find a template/sample? google for which terms?
<Myrtti> TURNS OUT, the left speaker wasn't plugged in to the mobo and it didn't even have the male terminal on it to click it to anywhere, just the two hanging wires.
<popey> hah
<popey> ujjain: compensation for what?
<ujjain> ah, demand letter sample
<popey> ah
<Myrtti> and I could've sworn I've heard music in stereo before
<ujjain> for my time, for my money for telephone hours, etc.
<popey> good luck
<ujjain> haha thanks
<foobarry> ujjain: however if you hurt yourself when drunk, its probably your own fault :D
<ujjain> hahaha :D
<ujjain> I have been fine lately with drunk escapaes
<ujjain> escapades
<Myrtti> the onsite repair bloke was happy, I offered him coffee from our Angry Birds mugs and he said this was about the easiest gig he's had the whole week
<TwistedLucidity> ujjain: I just made a basic one up myself.
<TwistedLucidity> There's a few template about, but they're all terrible IMHO
<ujjain> ah, I just finished mine, but if you could share some of yours
<ujjain> I'm not an English native
<ujjain> I just want to see if they are offering any compensation, I really spent too much time on it
<ujjain> it* getting things right with this organisation, they ended up closing my bank account lol, without informing me, after many hours phone calls etc.
<TwistedLucidity> Ah...compensation in that sense. OK, no. I have no file for that.
<TwistedLucidity> I'd just create a simple table listing your costs and time.
<ujjain> Yeah, but I called my phone company, they have no list of my phone calls, meh
<ujjain> so my administration is pretty crappy anyway
<ujjain> but I've written a letter, we'll see, I'm not going to have any expectations
<ujjain> Last time I played on a casino, rented a car, did anything, I didn't expect the company to screw me for Â£1k, but still happened
<ujjain> starting to dislike firefox, meh, performance sometimes really horrible
<knightwise> hey everyone
<TwistedLucidity> ujjain: https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/39q6xt/some_useful_firefox_tips_to_fix_choppy_scrolling/
<ujjain> sometimes it becomes unresponsive for a while these days, no way to find out which add-on, but add-ons seem even fine
<Myrtti> sweet.
<ujjain> hey, I want to postsomething on reddit and need english help
<ujjain> Pilsner Urquell at the Vltava River in Prague http://i.imgur.com/mJDDfns.jpg
<ujjain> is "at" the right word here?
<ujjain> "near to" "next to"
<ujjain> which preposition would be best
<ujjain> maybe just Pilsner Urquell by the Vltava River in Prague, makes sense to me.
<ujjain> prepositions are difficult.
<TwistedLucidity> I'd use "beside". e.g. "Pilsner Urquell beside the Vltava River..."
<TwistedLucidity> "next to" works as well
<kjvarley> popey: You were right. The issue was with Nullmailer. This guide helped me fix it http://bigbrus.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/lots-of-dns-requests-from-ubuntu-1204.html Thanks for all your help :)
<popey> sweet!
<moreati> Request for a sanity check. On 15.04 please install silversearcher-ag; then run ag foo. Do you get the error "ERR: error in pthread_setaffinity_np(): Invalid argument"?
<popey> (on 15.10 I don't)
<ujjain> ah besides
<ujjain> should positive balances be on my credit report?
<ujjain> my lloyds shows as Â£0 for the last 15 months
<moreati> FTR that error is peculiar to my laptop. Best guess is it's because I'm running kernel 4.1rc1
<intrbiz> ujjain: credit report should just show how much you owe I think
<ujjain> ah ok, I owe nothing, still nobody wants to give me a cc
<popey> moreati: oh, likely yes. probably some kernel option we have in our kernels which aren't in the default kernel
<moreati> The gory details https://github.com/ggreer/the_silver_searcher/issues/695
<popey> out of interest, why that kernel?
<moreati> It's a Macbook Pro (bad idea), I was getting unexplained freezes. They went away after I upgraded the kernel.
<popey> ahhh
<popey> reasonable
<daftykins> telco support amuses me
<daftykins> my client dropped his phone in the water again beside his boat
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/rgjgw5ilnensuq1/o2support.png?dl=0
<daftykins> already mentioned this but then O2 support is like "dial this to tell us your IMEI"
<daftykins> lul
<MartijnVdS> oops
<daftykins> he's now one dropped in water phone per boat trip!
<daftykins> +t
<daftykins> *+at
<zmoylan-pi> my brother had a drain unblocking business.  for ages they took his word that a phone dropped in a cesspit was lost.  but eventually they refused a replacement till he returned the 'damaged' phone.  so he cleaned it off as best he could and returned it.
<zmoylan-pi> after one stinky phone was returned they never questioned a loss again :-)
<daftykins> XD
<popey> hah
 * DJones wonders whether to report a bug against launchpad for spamming him with bug reports for a bug he didn't subscribe to, but because somebody marked it as a duplicate of a big he was interested in years ago, he now gets these bug emails
<daftykins> :D
<DJones> Even more frustrating is that the bug I was subscribed to was marked as closed
<diddledan> DJones: I've got manymany emails from one particular bug that people keep insisting on commenting to say "it's still broke. fix it."
<DJones> At least there's a link in the emails to unsubscribe ... thankfully
<diddledan> lol "if anyone wants their vocons neuralised..." <-- love the linux voice guys
<diddledan> so apparently people are upset that apple are using articles provided free of charge without paying for them: www.macrumors.com/2015/06/17/apple-news-publishers-opt-out
<diddledan> my response is "you publish an rss feed but insist that nobody uses it?"
<daftykins> whole lotta butthurt huh?
<daftykins> that was a dead link for me btw o0
<diddledan> if the publishers don't want apple using their data then perhaps the publisher should not publish it or at least not include it in a machine readable format
<diddledan> oopsiedoodle
<diddledan> bsod
<diddledan> here's the correctified macrumors link: http://www.macrumors.com/2015/06/17/apple-news-publishers-email-opt-out/
<diddledan> I missed -email
<diddledan> it was handtopyed
<daftykins> ty sir
<daftykins> ah i love using this 'livestreamer' thing so i don't have to watch e.g. twitch feeds in horrible flash anymore ;D
<daftykins> instead i can view it in the wonderful hardware accelerated player of my choice
<diddledan> m0nkey_: having internet problems?
<daftykins> seems so O_.
<zmoylan-pi> âª you put the wifi in range â«
<diddledan> I say the next version of ubuntu should be free. Lets start a petition to FREE WILY.
<diddledan> http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/news/heinz-forced-to-apologise-after-qr-code-on-ketchup-bottle-linked-to-hardcore-porn-site-10327313.html
<diddledan> WHEEEE
<diddledan> netsplitftw!
#ubuntu-uk 2015-06-19
<diddledan> this is a fun video: https://ind.ie/the-camera-panopticon/
<DJones> Heh, Jono throwing a cat amongst the pigeons, http://www.jonobacon.org/2015/06/19/rebasing-ubuntu-on-android/
<MooDoo> hello all
<diplo> Morning all
<nucc1> bonjour
<foobarry> DJones: doesn't talk about convergence
<bashrc> morning
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Sauntering Day! ð
 * bashrc will be sauntering later
<Sebsebseb> Intrbiz ping
<Sebsebseb> Popey ping
<popey> wassup
<Sebsebseb> Popey pm?
<foobarry> finally i'm adding bookmarks again after chrome improved the bookmark manager
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<foobarry> can finally close some tabs
<JamesTait> foobarry, "close some tabs"? What is this?
<foobarry> took me 30 mins
<foobarry> but i am down to < 20 tabs
<JamesTait> foobarry, sourcery. Nothing good will come of it, I assure you.
<foobarry> i just installed tab suspender too
<foobarry> my pc is so slow
<foobarry> and no more ram is possible
<foobarry> have 8gb already
<awilkins> Virtualbox is the CPU hungry thing here
<nucc1> even though i have "the great suspender", i still find my tabs unweildy
<awilkins> Although it has Windows 7 in it
<nucc1> occasionally, i just close as many windows as i can
<nucc1> and start with a nearly clean slate browser-wise
<nucc1> that's my tab management strategy.
<awilkins> Yeah, I find that helps MY stack space as well as the computer
<awilkins> "Are you using this window for something productive? No? BYE."
<nucc1> usually i leave a window open because i want to get to it "later"
<nucc1> and "later" can run into weeks.
<nucc1> since there is no seamless way of stashing a window as a todo item...
<nucc1> hmmm, i wonder if i can submit this as feedback for gnome-shell
<NET||abuse> hi guys. i'm being asked to setup an ubuntu desktop machine in ec2. tightvnc access somehow is one method, anyone know any other good ways to arrange remote desktop to ubuntu within aws?
<foobarry> is the "core" of a chocolate orange the best bit or the worst bit?
<popey> best
<popey> its bonus chocolate
<foobarry> doesn't taste as nice as a slice though?
<foobarry> nucc1: do you restore automatically the tabs upon click? default setting is not to
<foobarry> been into magnums lately
<nucc1> foobarry: yes, i restore upon click. I'm not complaining about the suspender, my computer has plenty of resources, just that i get lost in the glut of open tabs
<foobarry> choc+caramel one, and the pink raspberry, v nice
<nucc1> foobarry: and so suspending or not doesn't really make a difference for me.
<foobarry> i usually run at aroudn 50
<foobarry> but it kills my machine
<foobarry> esp when some take 500-800mb
<nucc1> i count mine in the low 100s
<popey> I am up to 60 tabs, which is good for me
<foobarry>  sudo swapoff -a
<foobarry> aaaaah breathe
<nucc1> i understand why Apple pushes for PCiE SSDs.
<nucc1> it makes swapping irrelevant.
<foobarry> until your SSD dies of overuse
<nucc1> at 2GBps of throughput, it makes no difference if a process is swapped or not.
<nucc1> well, i'll just have it replaced under apple-care.
<foobarry> Â£+Â£=Â£Â£Â£Â£
<nucc1> paid for when the cmputer was bought
<foobarry> its still money
<nucc1> worth it for the performance and peace of mind
<directhex> http://techreport.com/review/27909/the-ssd-endurance-experiment-theyre-all-dead
<popey> foobarry: swapoff -a is fun when you're using a fair amount of swap
<nucc1> currently using 2.5GB of swap and not even noticing it
<popey> i was using 1.6G but that's falling as it's now swapping it all back in
<popey> interesting, the size of swap is shrinking as it swaps in
<popey> KiB Swap:   705680 total,   705680 used,        0 free.  3678032 cached Mem
<popey> KiB Swap:   692852 total,   692852 used,        0 free.  3656256 cached Mem
<popey> etc
<foobarry> Swap:            0          0          0
<foobarry> swapped in 1gb
<nucc1> interesting article, foobarry
<nucc1> my chrome reports 127 tabs across 7 windows. time to do some reaping.
<foobarry> usually 80-20 rule
<foobarry> 20 tabs eat 80% of RAM
<NET||abuse> is OpenNX no longer maintained?
<NET||abuse> Is there something more useful out therenow?
<foobarry> x2go
<Myrtti> should DHL's tracking in general work?
<Myrtti> coz it's not.
<popey> KiB Swap:        0 total,        0 used,        0 free.  3140080 cached Mem
<foobarry> doin't forget to swapon again :P
<awilkins> DPD is the best courier for tracking
<foobarry> my shuttle disk fell off the PC and died :(
<awilkins> I wish all the couriers would do what they do
<awilkins> THey have an online map that shows their courier van location and tells you where you are in the queue and how long it's probably going to take
<awilkins> DHL : the best innovation from them is they will put your parcel in a local "parcel hotel" if you ask them to.
<Myrtti> cconvergence convergence convergence. Convergence convergence convergence.
<Laney> ccccccoooooonnnnnnvvvvvveeeeeerrrrrrggggggeeeeeennnnnncccccceeeeee
 * Laney converged the words
<foobarry> dumb colleague opens his window whatever weather
<foobarry> its freezing in here
<zmoylan-pi> maybe he just wants you to suffer...
<ujjain> is richmond nice to go out?
<popey> richmond park, yes.
<popey> or richmond the town, for evening drink/eats?
<foobarry> or richmond the goth
<foobarry> http://giphy.com/gifs/funny-it-crowd-PjBoEmdCWIAE0
<Laney> FENTON
<Myrtti> FEEEEEENNNNTTOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNN
<Myrtti> I'm going to drown the universe into knitted Moomin things. I just realised the little characters on moomin.com are svg files, so I'll relentlessly use this opportunity to transform them into knitting patterns on my knitting machine.
<zmoylan-pi> some sort of self replicating moomin creator...
<zmoylan-pi> oh no, moomin perpetual..
<foobarry> moomin are loomin'
<foobarry> on my loom
<Myrtti> https://instagram.com/p/4FSt7DoE0P/ and https://instagram.com/p/4CXesLoE2j so far
<Myrtti> I've got high hopes
<Myrtti> the original sheets and their patterns are only 60 stiches wide but the Arduino upgrade allows me to use the whole 200 pins on the needle bed for fair isle patterns
<Myrtti> but stupid DHL doesn't show where my board is
<foobarry> doesn't it take the fun out of kmnitting?
<foobarry> wow its massive machine
<Myrtti> foobarry: depends on how much fun you're having doing a massive nonrepeating knitting pattern of 200 stiches
<Myrtti> I tried do knit myself a jumper. It got boring before I got into armpits when knitting down from the collar.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bashrc> morning
<bigcalm> Looking for a WAP that will let me serve two SSID for two networks. Any thoughts?
<foobarry> i thought my brothers VM one did it
<foobarry> is it a feature in openwrt?
<nucc1> ithink it's a pretty common feature now, just can't remember any particular one
<foobarry> you can set your kids on one network and you on the other
<intrbiz_cr> bigcalm: aerohive
<bigcalm> DHCP and routing will be managed by a separate server. Just need to give the networks wifi
<nucc1> for instance, most AC capable APs by nature have to serve 802.11n in one AP and 802.11ac in another.
<bigcalm> intrbiz_cr: thanks. At the coffee shop I take it?
<intrbiz_cr> bigcalm: yup, just in the village
<popey> bigcalm: my WNDR3700 running openwrt or dd-wrt can do that
<popey> but they'd be on different channels, one on 2.4, one on 5
<bigcalm> popey: good point. The one I bought off you did that too
<intrbiz_cr> bigcalm: remember you'll need something which can split the virtual APs onto different vlans
<nucc1> i'm thinking you might be better off just buying two cheap wifi routers.
<bigcalm> intrbiz_cr: good point. Might be easier to have 1 device with two cables or two devices with 1 cable each
<bigcalm> I'll rummage though the boxes of bricks in the office. Bound to be something we can use. Just won't look very good imo
<foobarry> mint chewing gum and vimto, not nice
<NET||abuse> foobarry: you said x2go then? Sounds like a plan. Thanks for that.  Eeverytime i take a second to be on irc today i'm called away :P
<bigcalm> 6 zombies on a server. Should I be concerned?
<bigcalm> Now down to 3 zombies. I guess they sort themselves out?
<nucc1> i think you don't need to worry
<nucc1> a zombie iirc, is just a process whose parent has died without releasing it or somethingâ¦
<nucc1> https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Zombie_process
<nucc1> anyway, you only worry about them if you are concerned abut resources, or if you think there's a bug somewhere causing a high volume of them
<intrbiz> a zombie is a terminated process where the parent has not read its exit status, a parent failing to reap the children indicates a bug
<bigcalm> Thanks for the clarification
<foobarry> hows the ostrich pillow popey
<nucc1> or it has simply not got around to it yet
<foobarry> what happens when you drool on it
<popey> your mouth isn't inside the pillot
<popey> *pillow
<foobarry> i really want one atm
<foobarry> been awake for too long today
<foobarry> 2yr old throwing things at me while i lay on her bed
<bigcalm> Get your own bed then
<foobarry> its not v comfy either
<foobarry> i was in my own bed til 5am
<popey> my daughter wants a new bed
<popey> she has one of those ones where you climb a ladder
<foobarry> i bought  a cabin bed
<foobarry> for boy
<popey> she wants a "normal" bed which is a good idea, then I can borrow it when she's away :)
<foobarry> will sam get the bacin bed?
<foobarry> cabin
<foobarry> mmm baco
<foobarry> n
<popey> he has one too
<foobarry> my sons one has a den underneath
<foobarry> you can go all the way round the back. mine never had that
<popey> yeah, same here
<popey> but they just dump their crap under it
<ali1234> why is firefox showing twice in top?
<ali1234> once as "firefox" and once as "Media D~ode #72"
<Myrtti> is DHL really as useless as it seems or am I imagining things?
<nucc1> i think Royal Mail is by far the best courier. Followed by UPS.
<nucc1> DHL is big in some countries, but not quite so in the UK.
<nucc1> didn't they merge with Yodel or something?
<bigcalm> DPD is grand :D
<nucc1> DPD's tracking is good, and they work well if you live at a well-known address.
<nucc1> my address is hard to find, and only Royal mail reliably gets it.
<nucc1> I literally got into a quarrel with DPD last year because they returned too many of my parcels without even bothering to give me a call
<nucc1> or even leaving a "sorry we missed you" card.
<nucc1> they claimed they didn't leave a card for security purposes (it was in an apartment complex with controlled access, and they'd have to leave the card in the lobby)
<nucc1> i had to tell them on the phone at another time "use Google maps, it knows where my house is"
<Myrtti> wohey, the parcel has moved!
<Myrtti> took two days for it to do anything
<Myrtti> still in Germany, tho
<diddledan> yey?
<bigcalm> intrbiz: just found this in the box of bits: http://www.draytek.co.uk/products/legacy/ap-800
<bujji> rsync use case...?
<daftykins> the name kinda gives it away
<daftykins> synchronise data between points A and B
<daftykins> also read "man rsync"
<diddledan> daftykins: nowai
<daftykins> diddledan: https://www.dropbox.com/s/0lnzf119gp2242u/IMG_20150619_171038.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> the decking staining has commenced!
<diddledan> *click*
<diddledan> hmm, I think you spilt something - it's all stained
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> \o/
<daftykins> just got word the client who dunked his UK + world travel mobile now has his local one not power on
<daftykins> XD
<bujji> if i modified same file in A and B...what happen if we use rsync
<diddledan> >.<
<daftykins> bujji: the man page will tell you.
<daftykins> you get to choose!
<diddledan> so I used to play this. the rebirth promised never happened: https://web.archive.org/web/20030606170203/http://www.empirequest.com/
<diddledan> it was an MMO before the term was invented
<daftykins> it's either in a really grimy bath tub or green space
<diddledan> yes
<diddledan> there wasn't any graphics - it was purely html
<diddledan> that image is a depiction of someone's imagination rather than a representation of the game
<daftykins> ah i see
<diddledan> wow html from that era is evil
<bujji> nice one
<bujji> skipping non-regular file "hello/file1.txt" when i do rsync
<diddledan> "that's nice"
<daftykins> ^
<bujji> diddledan:why it's skipping non regular files?
<diddledan> for reference as to why I say "that's nice" see: https://youtu.be/JddNDtC-Yrs?t=21
<diddledan> note, swearwords included in that link
<daftykins> dat's nice Mrs. Brown
<diddledan> I went for electrocution lessons once. Wasn't quite what I had planned.
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> was pretty shocking, I can tell you!
<daftykins> I bet you've never felt so a-live
<diddledan> well it reminded me of a band, ac/dc
<daftykins> I'm sure you felt thunderstruck
<diddledan> my eyes lit-up
<diddledan> now, unrelated, is it acceptible to set a filesystem label on an hdd as "BigNHard"?
<daftykins> i think that belongs in the same category as people who call their PC's "beast"
<bujji> crw-rw----   1 root tty       7, 128 Jun 15 18:45 vcsa i copied this file to /opt it become regular file like this-rw-rw----   1 root tty       7, 128 Jun 15 18:45 vcsa
<bujji> why.../
<diddledan> because cp copies the contents of files
<diddledan> it doesn't care what the file is. it will just open it, read the data, and write that to a NEW file with default settings
<diddledan> although block device files may be treated differently
<diddledan> it's best to not try copying block devices tho
<bujji> its changing the type of file.
<diddledan> no it's not
<diddledan> it's making a new file
<bujji> contents is there but its not readable..
<daftykins> what even is that file?
<daftykins> why did your messy paste begin with 'c' ?
<diddledan> daftykins: it's a character-device
<daftykins> o0
<diddledan> similar to a block-device file but is unbuffered
<daftykins> how odd!
<bujji> idk
<diddledan> looks like major number 7 is for the VCS subsystem which is apparently "virtual console memory"
<daftykins> bujji: so sounds like your first attempt at using rsync was a bad one, only you didn't tell us what you ran so you're expecting us to guess
<diddledan> why you feel the desire to copy device-files is another question entirely
<daftykins> :D
<bujji> i did,there was a linked file while performing rsync
<bujji> copying that device file is odd one.
<bujji> diddledan:why its not copying that link file.
<diddledan> huh?
<bujji> rsync
<diddledan> what link file?
<bujji> it's a normal link file
<diddledan> that's nice
<diddledan> I've got a few of those too
<daftykins> bujji: you don't make any sense
<diddledan> esr's how to ask questions might be required
<diddledan> it's a bit trolly tho
<bujji_> daftykins:rsync -rv ./hello /opt/sample/
<daftykins> it's not very useful to give a relative path in an example when you don't know your cwd
<bujji_> hello contains lined file..but its not copying that file remaining copied
<daftykins> yeah still impossible English.
<bujji_> )
<bujji_> pwd--->/opt
<bujji_> lrwxrwxrwx   1 root root    8 Jun  6 23:28 file1.txt -> file.txt* this is the linked file.
<bujji_> daftykins:https://bpaste.net/show/2d98698b0a8e
<bujji_> diddledan:o/
<diddledan> bujji_: the manpage will explain
<bujji_> -l ..i used copied
<diddledan> here's a grep of the relevant options: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11741591/
<diddledan> well this is just silly: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2015/06/should-ubuntu-phone-ditch-debian-for-android
<brobostigon> oh dear.
<daftykins> someone in another channel posted a jono bacon one which was mostly in jest
<daftykins> so i don't know if that's piggy-backing off the same
<brobostigon> yes, its because of the blog post of his.
<daftykins> so it's not really serious then :>
<brobostigon> he makes a serious point, about application availability on smaller platforms.
<brobostigon> observation*
<diddledan> the poll on the omgubuntu page is evenly split between "don't be an android system at all and don't even run android apps" and "run android apps but be an android system"
<diddledan> don't be an android system*
<diddledan> that second one is the "middle ground" option
<ali1234> well luckily running android apps is pretty easy
<diddledan> Middle ground: Ubuntu Phone should support Android apps  44.33%  (539 votes)
<diddledan> No, Ubuntu Phone should stay as is: one codebase, all the things  41.61%  (506 votes)
<brobostigon> the other option is have an optional android runtime, like in sailfish os, that you can use if you want to.
<brobostigon> without actually using android at all.
<ali1234> yeah. they could even license the very same one
<brobostigon> however the better is native app, without the overhead in a system of emulation like that.
<brobostigon> apps*
<ali1234> theres no such thing as native apps any more
<ali1234> it's either java, or html5/javascript, or QML/javascript
<brobostigon> or c++
<ali1234> NDK, yeah. but not many people use it
<brobostigon> any platform, not just ndk on android.
<ali1234> you know what's really silly? this stupid monster game
<diddledan> monster game?
<ali1234> steam summer sale event
<ali1234> it's like multiplayer cookie clicker
<diddledan> aah
<ali1234> the metagame is brilliant though
<ali1234> people are losing it just to get a badge
<ali1234> the whole thing is set up to be completely impossible without using scripts to cheat
<ali1234> now people are counter scripting to try to make the scripters fail
<ali1234> this much be absolutely hammering valve servers too
<ali1234> 1M people are sending like 100 clicks per second to this game
<directhex> ali1234: as long as nobody thinks the metagame wasn't intentional
<ali1234> of course it was
<ali1234> as i said, it's impossible to get any of the badges without coordinated scripting
<directhex> "boss nuker" is now the cruellest insult known to gamerkind
<ali1234> no way, WH on _99 is worse
<ali1234> nobody does that accidentally
<ali1234> btw, do you have anything to do with this YeOldeWH?
<directhex> no
<diddledan> WH?>
<ali1234> diddledan: it's complicated
<directhex> i think someone just unplugged my car while it was charging @_@
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> at home or?
<directhex> daftykins: yeah. i still don#t have a proper charge point, so i have a bs1363 extension hanging out of the letterbox.
<diddledan> lol
<directhex> daftykins: car started emitting a warning alarm, went downstairs & plug was just sat there next to the charger
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> interfering blighters!
<diddledan> so, remote X11.. running `ubuntu-sdk`: QXcbConnection: Could not connect to display localhost:10.0
<diddledan> that's a really helpful message because the shell I'm running the ubuntu-sdk command is a gnome-terminal running on the same DISPLAY
<ali1234> diddledan: :10.0 doesn't sound right at all
<ali1234> what exactly you trying to do?
<diddledan> ali1234: remote X11 <-- as I said
<ali1234> nothing unusual? no nested servers or multiple servers on same machine?
<diddledan> no. I've got an ssh with X11 forwarding turned-on. in that ssh session I ran gnome-terminal (run as a command passed directly by ssh rather than via bash in a controlling pseudo-terminal). in the gnome-terminal I try running "ubuntu-sdk"
<diddledan> it seems running xterm doesn't work either
<diddledan> (running xterm from the gnome-terminal session)
<diddledan> so something's wonky in my x11-forwarding?
<ali1234> ah
<ali1234> gnome-terminal probably broke everything
<diddledan> oh
<ali1234> try running an xterm as the ssh command
<diddledan> yeah that seems to be not dying immediately when executing "ubuntu-sdk" but no window is appearing
<diddledan> there's two libGL messages
 * diddledan pastebins it
<diddledan> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11742032/
<diddledan> time was that remote X11 was easy
<diddledan> I hate to think what I'll do when mir and wayland eschew X11 entirely
<ali1234> that is probably a Qt error
<ali1234> don't use them?
<diddledan> glxgears works, though not locked to my display framerate assumably because it's remote and can't detect the refresh of the display so it just dumps 2000fps down the wire
<ali1234> right but Qt uses render backends
<ali1234> you probably don't have the software based one which is needed for X11 remote
<ali1234> more than that I don't know
<diddledan> hmm
<ali1234> try asking in #qt maybe
<diddledan> interesting, I've found a thread on qt-project.org's interest mailing-list which says "the X11 paint engine is gone. When working with remote desktops Qt5 is almost a no-go."
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> suggest writing a stern complaint
 * diddledan writes a blog about it and hopes that a random developer will randomly read it and randomly fix it :-p
<diddledan> "what do you mean you've never been to alpha centauri?"
 * brobostigon has another bug to write up.
<ali1234> diddledan: if it's any comfort, x11 remoting really is rather bad in this day and age
<ali1234> GPU assisted h264 streams will absolutely destroy it
<ali1234> it's just a matter of waiting for that stuff to be implemented
<diddledan> yeah but I don't want to have "my local system" and "my remote system in a window"
<ali1234> you won't need to
<diddledan> they're working on window-level h264 streams?
<ali1234> wayland is designed such that each surface can be a separate stream
<ali1234> nobody is working on any of this stuff yet, but they will
<ali1234> the thing about wayland is it doesn't care where the pixels come from or where they go
<ali1234> it doesn't even have a concept of windows
<ali1234> only surfaces
<ali1234> the downside to this is it's a lot harder to work with than the developers claim, if your goal is a traditional desktop
<diddledan> microsoft: "The Insider community is truly an international community, we have Windows Insiders from all over the world, and that diversity is what makes the Windows Insider Program so valuable to us. There are only 4 countries on the planet that donât have a Windows Insider running Windows 10!"
<ali1234> iraq, afganistan, north korea, ???
<ali1234> cuba probably
<diddledan> the only one of those that I'm sure probably doesn't have an insider is NK
<diddledan> iraq and afghanistan do have some savvy peapolobes that might be interested to contribute, and they don't have totalitarian regimes preventing such
<ali1234> cuba, iran, NK, sudan, syria - all in the highest level "terror supporting" embargoed countries
<diddledan> I would guess the 4 non-participating countries will be out of that list then
<diddledan> cuba might be the odd-one-out methinks becasue america is talking with them again these days
<ali1234> yes, plus they love to send them internets
<diddledan> popey: your tv is awesome!
<daftykins> o0
<diddledan_> and my system hangs as I say that last line
<daftykins> your 10 box?
<diddledan_> yup
<daftykins> i doubt it's the OS making it so :D
<diddledan_> 10 is my daily driver
<diddledan_> I'm a sucker for punishment :-p
<daftykins> Myrtti: heh i totally predicted it re: the disconnected speaker, how crazy
<diddledan_> haha! http://community.spiceworks.com/topic/1016273-brilliant-things-users-have-done-that-caused-it-headaches
<ali1234> in school we had eudora. we all set up filters to forward all emails to each other and filled the server in about 10 minutes
<ali1234> i think it was 4GB
#ubuntu-uk 2015-06-20
<daftykins> diddledan_: have you seen 10 insider preview will stay activated after being updated to RTM? http://blogs.windows.com/bloggingwindows/2015/06/19/upcoming-changes-to-windows-10-insider-preview-builds/
<diddledan_> daftykins: provided you have a microsoft account added
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> which seemed to be a prereq for insider anyway
<diddledan_> yeah
<diddledan_> but I guess some folk acquired it by other means
<diddledan_> http://www.avclub.com/article/david-tennant-joining-felicia-day-steven-yeun-comi-221132
<diddledan_> cibopathy sounds.. disgusting
<m0nkey_> wait, what?
<m0nkey_> so if i'm running Windows 10 pro preview, I get to keep it?
<daftykins> ja
<m0nkey_> it's like mircosoft is giving away their software!
<diddledan_> nevar!
<diddledan_> they aren't gonna do that!?
<m0nkey_> MS really want people to use Windows 10
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> and it's actually good too
<m0nkey_> so it's good for daily use?
<m0nkey_> hmm, now what if I upgrade my 8.1 box?
<m0nkey_> which is running the home edition
<daftykins> depends what you run
<m0nkey_> games mostly, probably netflix
<diddledan_> the netflix app isn't bad
<diddledan> oops
<diddledan> bluescreen
<daftykins> what are you up to causing that :P
<diddledan> no idea
<diddledan> "CRITICAL_PROCESS_DIED"
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> hrmm
<daftykins> er hey diddledan
<diddledan> o/
 * daftykins walks up and whispers
<daftykins> your HDD ok? ;)
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> I would hope so
<diddledan> it's a surface pro 3 so ssd
<daftykins> oh i was gonna talk to you about that
<daftykins> that client seemed to want one, but i said since it's not upgradable there wasn't much point, plus no mobile data
<daftykins> so went the Lenovo X1 Carbon route instead
<diddledan> mobile data is a pain
<diddledan> or lack of it is
<daftykins> odd that the original or the 2 had it
<diddledan> I think the "surface 2" had it? (note the lack of "pro")
<diddledan> I'm unsure whether the 3(not pro) has it or not
<daftykins> mmm that one's too rubbish anyway
<daftykins> i was looking at a minimum of i5, 256GB 8GB for a 3 Pro which bumped the price a fair chunk
<diddledan> aye. I went cheap and regret the lack of the extra 4gigs
<daftykins> :<
<daftykins> i should play with the Lenovo more before i have to give it back
<diddledan> I'm regularly using 95% of system ram
<diddledan> I wonder if that's why I keep getting BSODS
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> aaah, blows my mind every time i pick this thing up
<ali1234> x220/x230 is best lenovo
<daftykins> based on?
<ali1234> based on me using on ethe other day, they're great
<ali1234> everything works perfectly, and they're built just like a classic thinkpad, but without being huge and heavy
<daftykins> it's funny, i'd always pegged you as being far too calculated for such sensational remarks :)
<daftykins> works as in with Linux?
<ali1234> also you can get one for like Â£200
<ali1234> yep
<ali1234> they're not ultrabooks for sure, but they're not far off
<ali1234> fingerprint scanner/3g not tested :)
<daftykins> this one worked great with 14.04.2
<ali1234> same
<daftykins> though the physical mouse buttons above the touchpad didn't, though that wasn't really a showstopper
<diddledan_> ergh
<diddledan_> another one
<daftykins> :<
<diddledan_> what have I missed? some church shooting...?
<daftykins> if you have i've missed it too
<diddledan_> http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/charleston-suspect-appears-in-court-hearing/ar-AAbQO3v?ocid=spartanntp
<daftykins> Charleston just makes me think of the dance :/
<diddledan_> lol
<daftykins> hmm weird crime that one
<daftykins> odd to think you get people with these thoughts
<diddledan_> I don't get the whole "you rape our women" bit
<diddledan_> he said that to a woman
<diddledan_> and to be fair the white man has raped black women historically more than vice versa
<diddledan_> britain be like "hi africa! mind if we rock-up and sex all your ladies? yes? tough, we got boomboom sticks with gunpoweder"
<diddledan_> am I still here?
<diddledan_> my internets are broke
<diddledan_> daftykins: can you fire-up a windows and tell me what the default system PATH is?
<diddledan_> mine got nuked somehow
<daftykins> ouch! i'm only on 7 atm but that should do
<daftykins> system or user?
<daftykins> oh you said system
 * daftykins facepalms
<daftykins> C:\Windows\system32;C:\Windows;C:\Windows\System32\Wbem;C:\Windows\System32\WindowsPowerShell\v1.0\;C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\Adobe\AGL;C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\Acronis\SnapAPI\
<daftykins> i suspect those last two are junk
<diddledan_> ta
<daftykins> np :>
<diddledan_> internet breakage was my freenas box decided to die - it was hunged, so as it is my dns server I couldn't resolve any addresses
<diddledan_> and to diagnose I tried `ping` in the cmd.exe window which failed saying ping didn't exist - hence the discovery that my PATH was buffered
<diddledan_> ping now works
<diddledan_> reference for boomboom sticks: https://youtu.be/PWSYiGpLrHY
<daftykins> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouv1Un1F36A
<daftykins> haha oh dear
<daftykins> wonky path is wonky
<diddledan> that video hunged my surface
<daftykins> XD
 * diddledan_ tries again
<daftykins> you want the highest res device you have ideally
<diddledan> yep that killed it again
 * diddledan tries it on this mac instead
<diddledan> can you repaste the link?
<diddledan> (different system means no clickie)
<daftykins> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouv1Un1F36A
<diddledan__> what's that at 17 seconds?
<diddledan__> the whispy smoke-like thing
<daftykins> genuinely don't know
<diddledan__> is the atmosphere escaping perhaps?
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> perhaps it's some propulsion remnants from that spacex capsule coming up
<diddledan__> odd that my mac can't play it smoothly at full res
<diddledan__> although I'm playing it in chrome
 * diddledan__ tries it in safari
<daftykins> retina model?
<diddledan__> yup
<daftykins> hrmm
<diddledan__> seems better in safari
<diddledan__> that's impressive footage
<daftykins> sun's up
<diddledan__> must be time for bed then :-p
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> i kinda want to go admire my decking
<daftykins> decking admired.
<mappps> hmm
<mappps> anyone know what my last gib ip was
<mappps> cant find in logs
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperEngineer> brobostigon, I refuse to recognize that until your normal 10 o'clock announcement time ;)
<brobostigon> lolz 2.4.1 :)
<SuperEngineer> morning brobostigon :D
<SuperEngineer> 3.4.1
<brobostigon> morning SuperEngineer :)
 * SuperEngineer goes shopping [yuk]
<foobarry> morph was on cbbc this morning
<foobarry> the kids will love it
<foobarry> watched a few on youtube already
<mnrbig> irc://irc.freenode.net/2600hz
<popey> O_O
<knightwise> yeeyz :)
<knightwise> I have gotten my Dell XPS13 :)
<diddledan__> \o/
 * diddledan__ drools all overit
<diddledan__> oops, short-circuit
 * knightwise towels up diddledan__'s drool ...
<knightwise> it is pretty rad . very glad I went with the standard HD matte screen version
 * knightwise inhales the smell of "new computer" :) 
<diddledan__> did you get the ubuntified one or the windows one?
<diddledan__> I love the smell of new magazines
<diddledan__> I'm sure I look crazy when I get a new mag and bury my head inhaling deeply
<knightwise> lol :)
<knightwise> My wife used to work in a printshop
<knightwise> she would come home smelling like magazine every single day :)
<diddledan__> nice
<knightwise> hmm.. not the healthiest smell you know. Ink and chemicals
<diddledan__> did she mind you sniffing her as she comes in the door?
<diddledan__> :-p
<diddledan__> yeah, but luverly smeel nonetheless
<knightwise> Lol :) I always sniff her when she comes to the door :p
<diddledan__> I like the smell of petrol, too
<diddledan__> some people hate that smell, and I'm like "how?"
<daftykins> that's like unleaded petrol - and new electronics smells
<daftykins> mmm :>
<knightwise> hmm.. new electronics smell :) Smelling that right now.
<diddledan__> mmm
<knightwise> must say , the unboxing reminded me of unboxing my macs
<diddledan__> what about the smell of electronics that you've accidentally overpowered to the point of a puff of elf-smoke
<Myrtti> check both speakers work lol
<knightwise> Check !$
<knightwise> Now doing an apt-get update  - upgrade
<daftykins> Myrtti: amazing how it managed to jump out all of its' own accord :O
<diddledan__> (elf smoke is when the elves in the circuits get too many electrons they send out smoke-signals to let you know they're having trouble)
<Myrtti> all computers work on smoke
<Myrtti> if the magic smoke escapes, then they don't work anymore
<knightwise> and ill do a sudo apt-get install linux-generic-lts-vivid after that
<knightwise> and THEN i"ll make a system recovery disk.
<diddledan__> Myrtti: I like that
<knightwise> This little machine is gonna be my open source workhorse. no fancy hacks
<knightwise> For those the lord createth the VM !
<daftykins> :)
<knightwise> touchpad is acting a little funny out of the box. i think the kernell upgrade will fix that
<foobarry> quite a lot of rain we just had
<knightwise> foobarry: they tell me its heading our way on monday
<foobarry> my day off: https://goo.gl/photos/iZ3roSNN8FXrLA319 https://goo.gl/photos/kpx9g1AiQrEqtzdF7
<foobarry> and much garden and b&q activity
<SuperEngineer> -formattedfeeling good = formating the disk on external drive to allow a fresh /home backup
<daftykins> =]
<SuperEngineer> formattredfeeling good bad = forgetting hoe much time that completely new backup would take
<daftykins> USB 2 huh?
<SuperEngineer> nah... 3 actually, but y'know.... borrriiiinnnnnggggg
<daftykins> ah, write speed?
<SuperEngineer> but, daftykins, now feeling smug :)
<SuperEngineer> write speed btw = "pp" [pi** poor]
<daftykins> hrmm
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<daftykins> a nice modern laptop was writing to my 1.5TB seagate USB 3.0 external at no slower than 75-80MB/sec the other day :O
<daftykins> that was very neat
<SuperEngineer> tempted to write a rude comment re boasting... but I'll just congratulate you instead ;]
<SuperEngineer> ... #jealous
<daftykins> well the interesting thing is that was a broadwell laptop
<daftykins> but my ancient sandybridge laptop which uses a third party controller is way slower
<SuperEngineer> [I'll take your word for "interesting"]
<SuperEngineer> seems we both need a flock of magnetic carrier pidgeons!
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> tbh i'd normally just plug into wired LAN for the laptops and have the file server to throw things onto at gigabit \o/
<SuperEngineer> #jealous [again]
<daftykins> ok i'll stop ;)
<SuperEngineer> ...on the other hand - I bet you're paying for your link to the outside world [#smug]
<daftykins> :D you've got me there
<daftykins> although what speed does free get you? ;)
<SuperEngineer> don't care... it's free ["borrowed"] ;)
<SuperEngineer> social engineering is a wonferful thing when you help the landladty resolve her own wi-fi probs :D
<daftykins> i find it enough of a struggle to share a connection with myself
<SuperEngineer> lolz
<daftykins> roll on xbox one supporting 360 games! then i'll never have to hear its' nasty power supply whine again :D
 * SuperEngineer sends daftykins virtual earmufflers to help in the meantime
<daftykins> hehe, ah i just turn it off at the individually switched power strip \o/
<SuperEngineer> [& suggests some air duster!]
<popey_> hmm
<popey> 23:07 < Aciid> you forgot to paste the cleartext password
<popey> oops
<penguin42> that would be a more fun oops if you had pasted the cleartext password
<popey> true
<bashrc> password123 :)
<popey> hunter2
<zmoylan-pi> 1234,  must watch spaceballs again...
<popey> ooh, good call
<popey> was looking for something to watch
<zmoylan-pi> may the swartz be with you...
<popey> bah, desktop just crapped the bed
<popey> :( nouveau
<daftykins> :(
<popey> also, got a disk on the way out
<popey> relatively new 4TB
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11747951/
<popey> could be cable of course
<penguin42> says Media error, much more likely to be the drive
 * daftykins 's ears prick up
<daftykins> how's the smartctl -a /dev/sdX look?
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11747962/
<popey> started a long test some hours ago
<popey> should be finished by now
<daftykins> ooh yeah 14 sectors found wonky
<popey> this isn't that old
<daftykins> disks aren't what they used to be :(
<penguin42> yeh and the error shown as Error: UNC 8 sectors at LBA = 0x0b507e50 = 189824592
<popey> january
 * popey looks into warranty
<daftykins> https://westerndigital.secure.force.com/ind/?lang=en
<daftykins> there y'are :)
<popey> wat
<popey> no warranty
<penguin42> how can you have no warranty?
<popey> it says it was sold to a system integrator
<daftykins> D:
<popey> I bought from amazon
<daftykins> uh oh that happens a lot lately from marketplace sellers
<daftykins> flogging on non-legit drives
<popey> no, amazon
<daftykins> oh?
<daftykins> how rude
<penguin42> they should sort that for you unless it was sold as 2nd hand
<popey> WD
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00EHBERSE
<popey> luckily I bought 2 :)
<popey> so I have a spare I can put into service, but this is annoying because it's the D: of my windows partition
<popey> so has lots of stuff (including my entire steam collection) on it
<penguin42> Wheresmy-Data
<popey> "Warranty : 3 years"
<daftykins> eh but that's all easily redownloadable
<popey> sure, but the software installs are going to make windows go silly
<penguin42> popey: Yeh, so as OEM that's Amazon's problem, return it to Amazon
<popey> right, will open a thing with them
<popey> wonder if I could dd the entire thing and how much fun that would be
<daftykins> maybe ddrescue
<penguin42> well if you've got 4TB to put it on then, you should be able to with dd-rescue
<daftykins> it's gonna have a fit when it finds one of those currently unremapped 14 sectors
 * penguin42 bets it becomes more
<daftykins> *nod*
<popey> I have another identical disk
<daftykins> if it were under 5 it could've maybe stayed the same, but 14...
<popey> I bought two the same day
<penguin42> same batch?
<popey> probably, identical drive
<penguin42> see whether it fails at the same time as well then
<popey> its never been turned on
<daftykins> i got those nice ~Â£4 vouchers to add an extra year warranty to my WD Reds, which is neat
<popey> wonder what amazon will do though, might want to try and dd the thing before i try rma
<popey> in fact if I hook it up I could leave it DDing overnight
<popey> (hope I get the if= and of= round the right way)
 * popey will use ddrescue I think
<popey> better stats etc
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> yeah that's gonna take a looooong while
<daftykins> that 8 x 4TB RAID6 i have for someone on a 3ware card has been taking about 15-16 hrs to verify each week D:
<penguin42> popey: Be a little careful; you'll end up with a partical copy with some junk in the bad places; you wont easily find that junk
<popey> hmm
<popey> i think i know where some of it is!
<popey> inside GTA5 :)
<daftykins> ooh, been crashing on you?
<popey> I have had to re-download that a couple of times, which was probably the early sign
<daftykins> ah ha
<popey> yeah, corrupted textures
<popey> then "please re-download"
<daftykins> that's tedious
<zmoylan-pi> can't you just get it off a magazine cover floppy? :-)
<daftykins> hehe
<zmoylan-pi> that's where i got doom and lemmings... :-P
<daftykins> if people still bought those i wonder if they'd have to transition to flash drives :>
<zmoylan-pi> bluray discs and poor sods with dvd disc version...
<zmoylan-pi> you could get all of wikipedia on a cover disc for offline emergencies...
<popey> on of these days I'll make a live usb stick, label it, and leave it somewhere sane
<popey> and not overwrite it
<zmoylan-pi> to quote big bang theory.  what happens if there's a disaster and there are no usb ports anymore?
<penguin42> popey: or give them out to people?
<popey> ooh the one I found has a full install on it
<popey> not a live cd
<popey> yay
<popey> sweet, boot directly to desktop \o/
<popey> this one is a keeper!
<ali1234> that's the problem with USB sticks
<ali1234> you can't organise them
<ali1234> because they are funny shapes
<popey> these ones have loops
<ali1234> not like floppy disks that you can label and put in a box and they stay in order
<popey> so you can hang them round your neck or whatever
<popey> true
<popey> I should just stick bluetak to the wall and organise them that way
<daftykins> :D
<ali1234> or magnets
<daftykins> mine live in the same zipped section in my laptop backpack
<daftykins> i took them out for a holiday once, but never again
<ali1234> http://www.lakeland.co.uk/12481/Stellar-Magnetic-Knife-Rack?gclid=CjwKEAjwnpSsBRDH3pT2-7q55R4SJABRiNyT0XG4dY-OOaGS0jNKGiJ4plJC-zRXLPQW1MTsr89yJhoCaSbw_wcB&src=gfeed&s_kwcid=AL!49!3!66287827829!!!g!42886884744!&ef_id=U@AT9gAABfE2NTPp:20150620230453:s
<daftykins> there's always someone that i end up fixing something for
<ali1234> sorry about horrible URL, but get one of those
<ali1234> shouldn't affect flash memory :)
<penguin42> nice idea
<popey> yeah
<ali1234> *i accept no responsibility if it actually does wipe your flash drives
<popey> ddrescue running
<popey> 5MB/s
<daftykins> :S
<penguin42> http://unicode.org/emoji/charts/full-emoji-list.html    well, the good thing is that there's now an official unicode character for a Unicorn face
<daftykins> :)
<popey> Phew!
<popey> I can sleep well now
<daftykins> ^_^
<popey> thats a comprehensive page
<ali1234> trollface should be put in unicode
<daftykins> the guy that came up with that earns a fair chunk of money 0o
<daftykins> his mum even drew it on the side of their house XD
<popey> right, bedlington
<penguin42> go to bed, wake up and sweep the bits out from under the drive
<popey> heh
<daftykins> :)
<m0nkey_> grr. why is there no way to export playlists from google music?
<m0nkey_> I can see myself going through the entire list and making note of each one manually :/
<ali1234> m0nkey_: i just googled it
<ali1234> it turns out that the android app stores playlists in a SQLite database
#ubuntu-uk 2015-06-21
<m0nkey_> yup, tried that
<m0nkey_> doesn't apply to the latest version
<m0nkey_> there is no music.db
<popey> ... 185GB done...
<knightwise> Hey popey  :) Mah Dell arrived yesterday !
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<knightwise> how are you today
 * SuperEngineer bites tongue & withholds comments re punctuality etc.  ;)
<brobostigon> mornng knightwise
<brobostigon> knightwise: not bad, and you?
<knightwise> doin ok :) Just updated the bios on my XPS13 :)
<brobostigon> :)
<knightwise> its working very very well. better then I expected. popey , if you still haven't decided on a laptop , this one comes highly recommended
<brobostigon> comes highly recommended from our residant tech journalist.
<knightwise> Moi ? Tech journalist  ? :)
<knightwise> I am but a meager poor humble podaster.
<brobostigon> :) blogger etc.
<knightwise> Perhaps .. but as a user i'm also very pleased with it.
<brobostigon> :)
<knightwise> After i allmost melted my mac mini last time i was kinda fed up on running ubuntu on non supported hardware (not ubuntu's fault) and I was looking for something small to take with me
<knightwise> gonna give it a run for its money next week , taking it with me on the field
<brobostigon> i find something similer on my nexus4, with android it tends to get extremly hot, however with ubuntu touch and sailfish, it tends to run much cooler.
<popey> knightwise: worth knowing, thanks!
<popey> you got the non-touch one though?
<knightwise> popey: correct. The matte screen is gorgeous, the "scaling" is just right and the battery life is like this thing is running on plutonium pallets
<popey> yeah, i want touch
<knightwise> That is gonna eat into your batterylife... the extra resolution is pretty awesome .. but a lot of open source apps have a hard time with upscaling
<popey> battery isn't important to me
<popey> my laptop spends more than 99% of its live on my desk
<knightwise> I got the extra power companion with it (1200mamp)
<popey> i saw someone take a thinkpad x1 carbon and put a proper touchpad on it with real buttons
<popey> which appeals to me
<knightwise> That I do miss , real buttons :(
<knightwise> Hated the ones on type cover of the surface pro 1
<knightwise> and the one one the type cover for the Surface pro 3 ... just arent there .. at all
<knightwise> I should be used to it by know. Havent had buttons on the macs for years but ... i donno , feels different on a pc
 * popey fiddles with ddrescue parameters
<popey> that's a LOT faster
<popey> 135MB/s vs 5MB/s
<knightwise> popey: Coolz
<knightwise> tweaky-weaky can give you some huge performance increases
<knightwise> there :) Surface pro 1 and Chromebook put up for sale.
<popey> \o/ ddrescue already approaching in 10 minutes what it took 10 hours to do last night
<penguin42> oh god, they're teaching AIs to read by training it on the Daily Mail: http://www.technologyreview.com/view/538616/google-deepmind-teaches-artificial-intelligence-machines-to-read/
<ali1234> tr -d [:punct:]  <- how do i say "all punctuation except for ' (apostrophe)"
<penguin42> have you tried something like [^':punct:] ?
<penguin42> hmm, doesn't work
<moreati> penguin42: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/21294466/tr-utility-add-exceptions-to-bracket-expression-punct but it's the ugliest regex I've seen in some time
<ali1234> let's step back a bit
<moreati> I meant ali1234 ^
<ali1234> what i actually want to do is take unicode on stdin, replace any number of characters which aren't a-zA-Z0-9' with a single newline, and write result to stdout
<moreati> ali1234: stdin and stdout are only bytestreams. Unicode in what encoding?
<penguin42> moreati: Somewhere between interesting and YEUCH
<ali1234> moreati: utf8 of course
<penguin42> hmm, there are some tools that work in whatever lang is dont they?
<moreati> ali1234: you'd be surprised how often people don't understand that question
<ali1234> actually i wouldn't
<ali1234> even more generally, i want to split a long text file into "words"
<ali1234> but filter out punctuation and unicode smilies
<ali1234> for example: ã½à¼¼àºÙÍàºà¼½ï¾ã½ is not a word
<ali1234> the only punctionation i want to keep is apostrophes eg "it's"
<moreati> ali1234: Could you tighten your definition of word. Do you care about internationalisation at all? Some of the characters in your example are part of a word, according to the Unicode standard.
<ali1234> my definition of a word is anything an american teenager might type that represents a word
<moreati> What about: CafÃ©? ÑÑÌÑÑÐºÐ¸Ð¹? æ±è¯­?
<moreati> okay
<ali1234> CafÃ© = yes, but unlikely
<ali1234> the others = no
<penguin42> ali1234: I'm thinking word is probably defined in the locale but I'm not sure
<ali1234> but it has to also match stuff like "lolz"
<penguin42> ali1234: Does fmt  handle utf-8 ?
<ali1234> i dunno, what's a fmt?
<penguin42> ali1234: Old Unix command
<moreati> lets be lazy then: regexp's \w in ASCII mode
<penguin42> ali1234: try piping some text through  fmt -1
<ali1234> kinda works
<ali1234> so fmt works pretty well
<ali1234> it splits words reliably at least it seems to
<ali1234>  LOL....Dude, <- this is two words
<penguin42> ali1234: Yeh it's mostly used for splitting lines at say 70-80 character formatting, but using fmt -1  is an old trick, I just didn't know how well it worked on utf
<penguin42> (and when I say old trick, I'd bet at least 20 years old, probably 30)
<moreati> ali1234: how close does this get https://gist.github.com/moreati/d0b950b6594d4a4b9b58 run it with python split.py <infile >outfile
<moreati> ali1234: oops,I missed the negation. Corrected now
<ali1234> moreati: what python version?
<moreati> ali1234: python 2.x
<ali1234> sre_constants.error: unbalanced parenthesis
<ali1234> line = re.sub(line, r"\s+", "\n")
<moreati> ali1234: try revision 5 https://gist.github.com/moreati/d0b950b6594d4a4b9b58
<ali1234> seems pretty good
<diddledan> eben ink
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/g2dkz62z6jpgkuu/IMG_20150621_180043.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> huzzah to a full covering at last \o/
<daftykins> have to screw 'em back down again soon
<diddledan> daftykins: porn?
 * diddledan actually clicks the link
<diddledan> daftykins: yup, that's porn alright! :-p
<directhex> hooray for porn
<diddledan> gardener's porn
<diddledan> directhex: he gave it a good seeing to
<diddledan> directhex: he covered it all-over
<diddledan> directhex: I hear he's gonna screw it down tomorrow
<daftykins> i knew that was coming :P
<diddledan> daftykins: any such utterances with me around is likely to invoke double ententre and innuendo
<daftykins> indeed!
<daftykins> g'night mr.dan et al (:
#ubuntu-uk 2016-06-20
<MooDoo> morning all
<zmoylan-pi> be careful out there, it's a monday
<MooDoo> i'm well aware, :(
<foobarry> can i get inkscape to show guides while moving an obecjt around? i want to align them
<ali1234> you mean only when moving an object around?
<foobarry> yes ali1234
<ali1234> i don't think so
<ali1234> you could just learn the keyboard shortcut for show/hide guides
<foobarry> ewww. thats kind of basic
<ali1234> what exactly do you mean by guides?
<foobarry> like when i'm using pencil app or visio, when i drag something
<foobarry> horiz/vert dotted lines show me if i'm lined up with other objects
<ali1234> no it's still not clear
<ali1234> do you mean the blue lines that you drag out from the ruler?
<foobarry> not permanent lines, but ones that appear during dragging/moving only
<ali1234> okay i know what you mean
<foobarry> so i know i'm putting the object in line with another
<foobarry> otherwise i can't tell when i'm lined up
<ali1234> well firstly, use align and distribute
<ali1234> i think what you are asking for is called smart guides
<foobarry> ah ok, do u know if they exist in inkscape?
<ali1234> they don't
<foobarry> surprising
<foobarry> thanks anyway
<ali1234> apparently the KDE equivalent has it
<foobarry> inKscape?
<ali1234> kivio
<ali1234> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk_wf1heHF4
<ali1234> lol that's terrible
<foobarry> pencil does this trivially
<foobarry> "it's currently asleep while I work on the inkscape website and various other things"
<ali1234> ah hang on
<ali1234> you can do some basic stuff
<ali1234> like you can snap to object centres
<foobarry> i've learned to use the align and distribute, but its labourious
<foobarry> its only for one poster i'm doing, so no biggie
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Monday, and happy Summer Solstice! ð  â¼
 * foobarry shakes fist at rain gods
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> ð  foobarry, brobostigon
<BigRedS> Goood Morning!
<brobostigon> morning JamesTait and BigRedS
<JamesTait> I can tell it's the height of summer, my roof is leaking.
<zmoylan-pi> at least the drip on back of your neck is warm
<popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAgKHSNqxa8 is fun #brexit ã
<popey> John Oliver ^
<BigRedS> He needs to get off YouTube and back on the Bugle
<foobarry> reddit still down :(
<foobarry> at lunchtime of all times
<zmoylan-pi> on a monday...
<zmoylan-pi> https://voat.co/ is still up which is just a more loony right version of reddit
<Newman101> There are plenty enough of loonies and fruitcakes in Reddit too though.
<foobarry> what is that site>
<zmoylan-pi> when reddit banned a bunch of sub reddits they seemed to have all gone to voat
<zmoylan-pi> so it often has a lot of the front page of reddit on it
<foobarry> phew reddit is back
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: How very dare you! We are all quite normal and civilised on Reddit
 * TwistedLucidity flings poo
<czajkowski> aloha
<diddledan_> hiya
<foobarry> got my pi zero working as a usb slave
<foobarry> that means i can ssh to it over usb without wifi
<foobarry> ethernet over usb
<TwistedLucidity> That's pretty awesome
<foobarry> anyone know why gparted on a .img file mounted as /dev/loop1 doesn't remember changes?
<daftykins> what kind of changes?
<foobarry> resizefs to resize smaller
<foobarry> reduce free space
<daftykins> mmm never done that
<foobarry> as soon as it completes successfully, it "forgets"
<daftykins> Pis and SD cards or something?
<daftykins> http://softwarebakery.com/shrinking-images-on-linux - that any use?
<foobarry> yeah, strangely not working for me
<daftykins> not as daft as permissions on the file, or the file being on a different file system or some such?
<foobarry> don't think
<foobarry> so, might try start again from scratch
<foobarry> iosetup on ubuntu not showing options on the other tutorials such as partitioning
<foobarry> losetup*
<daftykins> did anyone got their Amazon UK password changed recently? i just this second got an email that mine had
<daftykins> "At Amazon we take your security and privacy very seriously. As part of our routine monitoring, we discovered a list of email address and password sets posted online. While the list was not Amazon-related, we know that many customers reuse their passwords on several websites."
<daftykins> ah their online support chat tell me it was based on having had the same password for a long period of time and not having been discovered online o0
#ubuntu-uk 2016-06-21
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> #ubuntuspotting - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwklfIbSAgA
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<foobarry> any idea how to find out what is using a module? lsmod says 1 thing is using it, mmfs26               1833577  1
<foobarry> cannot remove the module cleanly as something is using it
<popey> foobarry: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/448999/is-there-a-way-to-figure-out-what-is-using-a-linux-kernel-module ?
<foobarry> heh i was on that page
<foobarry> --force is scary with gpfs
<foobarry> trying to fathom the language in the second answer
<TwistedLucidity> popey: So I checked that minidlna thing and it was installed for...no reason whatsoever. Laptop has been upgraded from 14.04...so could have been just about anything I guess.
<TwistedLucidity> Actually looks like a useful enough wee thing, just needs a bit more control (which can probably be configured I assume)
<popey> hah
<foobarry> ah, my colleague noticed autofs was loading stuff. restarted autofs and was able to shutdown gpfs
<foobarry> anyone use pocket or instapaper?
<foobarry> i have evernote for permanent stuff. wondering if i'd benefit from pocket too for tablet/kobo reading on the train
<popey> i use pocket just for collecting news for the podcast
<popey> i never use evernote plugins, just use that for text
<popey> tried the evernote browser plugin and found it too intrusive
<foobarry> i turned off the searchy stuff
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: I keep meaning to install Wallabag (a F/OSS alternative to Pocket)
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Tuesday, and happy Go Skateboarding Day! ð
<TwistedLucidity> Remember to wear your pads & helmet
<JamesTait> TwistedLucidity, I make a point of doing that daily anyway, it can be a dangerous business in software development. ð
<TwistedLucidity> JamesTait: The best form of defence is attack, I have a big stick
<TwistedLucidity> 1.75m of solid oak as it happens.
<JamesTait> I have 14.6cm of cherry wood?
<TwistedLucidity> Got some impact grade hickory here as well.
<foobarry> i have my old brand-X skateboard inthe loft
<foobarry> any comments on https://solus-project.com/2016/06/20/solus-1-2-shannon-released/ ctrl-f optimizations
<diplo> as ub whether I'll use it foobarry ?
<diplo> in*
<diplo> I like the look of solus, I use Budgie as my WM, not sure I'd use it as my desktop OS, but may give it a go in the future, I use my desktop as my dev machine so I need something I know for now :)
<foobarry> over how they get the speed improvements
<foobarry> and if they legitimately amke desktop faster at expense of 1% use case havnig worse experience
<ali1234> they are using processor specific optimizations. so the 1% don't have a worse experience. it doesn't work for them at all
<foobarry> unclear what is affected
<foobarry> they don't say.
<foobarry> elementary are 64-bit onl;y, so i wonder if they are doing it too
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> it has nothing to do with being 64 bit only
<foobarry> its like the FAST compiler option etc?
<ali1234> i dunno. but it can't be anything to do with 64 bit
<ali1234> because all 64 bit distros are 64 bit only
<ali1234> because 64 bit code can't run on a 32 bit processor, ever
<foobarry> we use intel compiler on the cluster and AMD nodes aren't working because it needs similar cpu to what it was compiled on, unless you use more broad options
<foobarry> i know that, but there is a mentality that says "lets focus on newer hardware", that fits with ditching 32 bit too
<ali1234> eh, no
<ali1234> intel compiler targets intel extensions regardless of what system you run it on
<ali1234> yes, but dropping 32 bit support does not make your 64 bit binaries run any faster
<ali1234> it's like saying your distro runs faster because you don't compile it for ARM
<foobarry> intel had to drop the intel specific stuff due to a court case i thought
<ali1234>  find that almost as unlikely as the idea that a compiler generates different code based on the system you run it on, rather than say, command line switches
<diplo> Well ikey works for Intel and works on the intel os project which I cna't remember the nsame of
<diplo> name*
<diplo> https://clearlinux.org/
<diplo> thnk that's it
<foobarry> yep
<ali1234> i remember there was a scandal about the intel compiler generating sub-optimal code paths for AMD chips
<ali1234> but that's a bit different
<foobarry> heh
<foobarry> evil intel
<ali1234> what this will be is targeting specific CPU extensions that aren't available on all 64 bit processors
<ali1234> and possibly using the intel compiler to do that
<ali1234> or maybe just writing the assembly code
<diplo> Probably yeah, debated about trying it on my optiplex but pretty sure its too old :)
<ali1234> or even just picking the right compile flags
<ali1234> this is the same thing that they did with meego
<ali1234> it required a cpu extension that wasn't available on any AMD chip at the time
 * popey notes the guy who runs solus works for intel
<popey> also, I'm not sure those graphs are all of the graphs in the set
<popey> http://openbenchmarking.org/result/1606039-HA-1606036KH29 yes, some other graphs have them level
<popey> or even solus being slower
<popey> lies, damn lies and benchmarks :)
<daftykins> eww Mint
<ali1234> does anyone really even use XZ compression?
<foobarry> the slower ones are not much slower...more data required.
<foobarry> xz, yes they do
<popey> It makes for a good press release, which is fine of course.
<foobarry> xz is supposed to be better than bz2
<ali1234> yeah but it's like 10x slower
<foobarry> no
<ali1234> and 5% better compression
<foobarry> imagine you have lots of genome data
<foobarry> they would take many terbaytes
<ali1234> i have a very large dataset... it's over 2TB decompressed
<foobarry> decompression time for xz is alltgedly faster
<ali1234> it took a couple of days to bzip it all
<ali1234> xz would have taken months
<foobarry> HPC
<foobarry> which is where you would find the genome data
<foobarry> also if you store public datasets for consumption
<ali1234> HPC where you have gigabit links between each node?
<foobarry> then a one time long compress for faster decompress and lower size is gotta be a benefit
<foobarry> or infiniband
<ali1234> xz is so slow that it takes longer to compress data than it does to upload it on my broadband which has like 50kB upload speed
<foobarry> actually bzip compresses genome sequences better than xz, but there are other cases where it is better
<ali1234> also decompressing isn't faster either... its much slower than bzip
<foobarry> [citation needed]
<ali1234> i tested it myself
<foobarry> depends on the dataset
<foobarry> tried pocket on https://git-scm.com/book/en/v2/Git-Branching-Rebasing but it doesn't play nice
<foobarry> might have to stick to everscrote
<awilkins> ali1234, genetic data compression?
<awilkins> Main problem is the dictionary size of normal compression programs AFAICT
<awilkins> ali1234, I've got some links somewhere
<awilkins> http://sun.aei.polsl.pl/REFRESH/index.php?page=projects&project=gdc&subpage=about
<awilkins> It also does differential compression (because genomes are so similar)
<awilkins> I had this notion that you could just compress a reference genome and only punt around the compressed differentials
<foobarry> maybe ali1234 was trying xz level 9
<awilkins> Never got around to implementing that but it should be able to copy a full human genome across a T1 line in less than 15s after compression
<daftykins> what's 1.544Mb in this day and age :)
<awilkins> More than a floppy
 * zmoylan-pi waits for the box of 2.88mb floppies to double in value...
<damien> does anyone know how to delete an empty folder in ubuntu?
<lopta> damien: Have you tried from the command line?
<damien> no what should i do
<lopta> Does it not go away if you drag it to the rubbish bin?
<damien> no it does not
<lopta> Is it a folder that you created?
<damien> it was a game actually i went to uninstall it as it did not work, now there is an empty folder left
<popey> click on it and press delete?
<lopta> damien: Where is the folder?
<damien> it is in other
 * lopta doesn't know where "other" is.
<damien> other is in the launcher menu
 * lopta shrugs
<lopta> Sounds like an Ubuntu-specific (or at least Linux-specific) thing.
<lopta> Sorry I'm not able to help.
<damien> I thought as much
<popey> i dont actually understand where you're talking about
<lopta> popey: I was about to suggest that you might know ;-)
<damien> popey: do ypou have any idea how to remove an empty folder in ubuntu?
<brobostigon> rm -r
<damien> is that all
<brobostigon> and the folder name,
<damien> it is saying that it doesnt exist
<brobostigon> does ls show it?
<diddledan_> brobostigon: you should specify with a variable name and a suffixed / after the variable so that unsuspecting copy pastas unwittingly, but amusingly, destroy their system
<brobostigon> diddledan_: true, yes, sorry.
<damien> no
<diddledan_> something like "-rf $moo/"
<diddledan_> :-p
<czajkowski> popey: you about ?
<damien> diddle dan that did not work either
<m0nkey_> Yeah diddledan_ you suck :-P
<damien> lol
<daftykins> buuuurn!
<damien> he said aww chucks
<damien> aww chucks im speechless
<damien> im sure things should be a doddle with diddledan
<damien> :-)
<popey> czajkowski: hello
<diddledan_> m0nkey_: I try
<popey> diddledan_: please, do NOT do that.
<diddledan_> popey: that's why I also neutered my utterance to be non-copy-pastable
<popey> plenty of people don't copy paste but type what they see, especially if they're on a second computer fixing the first
<popey> so please, don't
<daftykins> hmm that minsky character is bouncing in this channel too
<zmoylan-pi>  
<daftykins> ban o'clock
<diddledan_> zmoylan-pi: I feel your presence but I can't hear you
 * diddledan_ bops daftykins 
 * daftykins is bopped
 * zmoylan-pi mimes person stuck in a box...
 * daftykins seals the box airtight and watches how zmoylan-pi mimes it
<daftykins> 8D
<diddledan_> yey @ silly oversights on government sites: http://cl.ly/2k0X2Y2w2O0o/o
<diddledan_> you@your.address
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> well you don't think anyone is gonna fix that right?
 * zmoylan-pi mimes opening backpack and extracting battery powered angle grinder to make air holes
 * diddledan_ stabs the box again (that zmoylan-pi is miming being inside)
<diddledan_> this is a magic trick, right? the one where I stab the box with 15 swords and you stay alive?
 * zmoylan-pi nips out to the chemist using the escape tunnel from the box
<daftykins> oh dear the mime has gone quiet
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan_> I'd be more worried if the mime was noisy
<diddledan_> mimes are supposed to be quiet aren't they?
<zmoylan-pi> everybody laughs when you mention you prepare an escape tunnel... they're the people you add to the list of 'not allowed in my escaoe tunnel'... :-P
<daftykins> diddledan_: http://goo.gl/teY5
<diddledan_> oh
<diddledan_> aren't jokes always funnier when someone explains it in minute detail?
<zmoylan-pi> they're funny when you explain them with a 2 hour powerpoint presentation
<zmoylan-pi> AND a laser pointer
<diddledan_> powerpoint. please. I use interpretive dance
<zmoylan-pi> ah but with powerpoint you get to annoy people for 30 minutes while you connect your laptop to the over head projector which doesn't want to
<diddledan_> when you see a large whale-like me oozing around wearing a leotard in front of an audience you'll wish for powerpoint
<zmoylan-pi> i'll sell harpoons to the audience...
<diddledan_> you can't beat Mr Pointy
<diddledan_> https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRKjfe3_r0FkAxcpjnhUzg9LJHJpnC3sWlED75DACoiBIoa_lKbMA
<diddledan_> this is a more descriptive one: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/81/d4/3d/81d43da332e1a6eff580511c54744a3b.jpg
<diddledan_> someone kill minsky !
<zmoylan-pi> we have harpoons... :-P
<diddledan_> perhaps the IrCOPs need informing over in #freenode?
<zmoylan-pi> and my unfeasibly large nerf collection...
<diddledan_> I've got my bopping thing
 * diddledan_ bops daftykins 
<daftykins> skippity beep-bop and Christopher Reeves ~
<daftykins> that was a line in some Eminem i believe
<czajkowski> popey: can you help me figure out libre office before I go grey please :)
<czajkowski> popey: open up libre office
<czajkowski> and do you see a left hand pane where you can add slides underneath each other
<czajkowski> and then to the right you see the slide
<czajkowski> what is the name of the left hand panel, mine is gone and trying to readd it
<daftykins> must be something like thumbnails/outline ?
<zmoylan-pi> it's just called slides...
<zmoylan-pi> or side pane?
<zmoylan-pi> slide pane rather
<zmoylan-pi> View, Slide Pane
<czajkowski> https://plus.google.com/u/0/+LauraCzajkowski/posts/1j1WYasa8UC?pid=6298721254376402514&oid=102921374554385564572
<czajkowski> so I got view slide pane in there
<czajkowski> but it's just showing blanks and the slides to my right are not blank
<czajkowski> :(
<czajkowski>  libre office why do you hate me so
<daftykins> YOLD!
<daftykins> that's pretty weird
<czajkowski> I'm not old :(
<daftykins> haha that's not what that means
<czajkowski> what does it mean so ?
<daftykins> year of the Linux desktop! my little tease line :)
<czajkowski> ah gotcha
<czajkowski> which is in fact OLD ! :)
<czajkowski> slides should do it
<daftykins> the phrase? :)
<czajkowski> yet cannot for the life of me make it display
<daftykins> maybe you have to close and re-open for some unknown reason o0
<czajkowski> aye
<czajkowski> daftykins: oh for the love of jack daniels!
<czajkowski> https://goo.gl/photos/AsoZeidjsjxhe1uU7
<czajkowski> so closing and reopening kinda fixed it
<czajkowski> now if I could just the side pane to dock!
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i just Windows'd your problem
<zmoylan-pi> now you just need to move it around till it snaps in... i think...
<czajkowski> narp
<czajkowski> grumble
<foobarry> my system utterly locks up during i/o copy from usb->local disk
<foobarry> need to find the cpu scheduler to stop that
<bittin> you should not work when you are tired and deppresive almost made something wrong but brain woke up and helped me in last second :P
<foobarry> didn't help me, just did a bad
<daftykins> :<
<zmoylan-pi> may all your recoverys be little ones...
<foobarry> also, i've been doing a dd for 25mins
<foobarry> surely there's a problem
<foobarry> only 4gb
<zmoylan-pi> sounds... wrong...
<foobarry> ah, just as i do a strace, it finished
<daftykins> forget a blocksize parameter to speed it up?
<daftykins> heh
<foobarry> maybe that woke up
<foobarry> my dog keeps eating feathers
<zmoylan-pi> can smell the bird from the feathers so has a nibble
<foobarry> had to extract it from the back of his mouth
<foobarry> like sticking a head in a croc mouth
<zmoylan-pi> dogs jaws aren't as strong as crocs
<xnox> finished watching the #BBCDebate....
<xnox> oh i hope we will remain
<xnox> =(
<lopta> hello xnox
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<daftykins> lo
#ubuntu-uk 2016-06-22
<m0nkey_> Do I want a 19 cents .xyz domain?
<zmoylan-pi> wait for the price to drop to 18c
<zmoylan-pi> then you'll feel like you got a bargain...
<m0nkey_> 19c is a bargain.. that's like 1c US!
<zmoylan-pi> penny for your blog...
<m0nkey_> ok, done
<m0nkey_> m0nkey.xyz :)
<zmoylan-pi> no expense spared... :-)
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Wednesday, and happy Chocolate Eclair Day! ð
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<TwistedLucidity> JamesTait: I'm on a diet you insensitive clod!
<JamesTait> TwistedLucidity, I'll have yours then. ð
<ujjain> I spoke to a girl and she said something about rebirth called constellations ... any idea what that is?
<foobarry> ?
<popey> also. "wat?"
<popey> sounds like astrology
<foobarry> or http://store.steampowered.com/app/250900/
<popey> binding of issac?
<popey> hah, yes.
<TwistedLucidity> Fund game. Utterly deranged.
<TwistedLucidity> "Fun"
<foobarry> actually think its some mumbo jumbo reincarnation theory
<TwistedLucidity> I've finsihed with reincarnation. I clearly perfect. :-P
<popey> oh look, yougov eu referendum survey o'clock
<foobarry> i don't understand. surely the undecided should vote for the status quo?
<foobarry> why are people swinging their decision based on emotional swing over the last few weeks rather than the years preceding it when they were happy in the EU
<foobarry> and barely thought about it tbh
<SuperMatt> morning all
<popey> yo
<Newman101> morning
<BigRedS> Gooodd Morning!
<diplo> hah, just read a tweet "If Britain leaves the EU, do I no longer get these annoying cookie warnings on every website? This changes everything."
<TwistedLucidity> It always amuses me how there is no way to refuse the cookies
<diplo> Refusing = leaving site?
<TwistedLucidity> That's would be one option but as I understand it, it wasn't what the law intened. You were meant to be able to refuse and continue
<foobarry> i think that law got canned already anyway
<foobarry> or certainly reinterpreted
<diplo> They don't enforce it I think is more to the point
<foobarry> ah...that moment where you think you broke it all. then relaised it was somebody else
<diplo> I've had a afternoon / mornin glike that, thought I'd broke code
<foobarry> running a scary change saw some horrific messages
<diplo> Nope, missing php-gd package
<foobarry> http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/mark-zuckerberg-seen-covering-up-his-webcam-in-picture-celebrating-instagram-milestone-a7094896.html
<zmoylan-pi> and as i asked in a different channel why do no manufacturers offer a sliding cover or a hardware switch for cameras in laptops or for microphones too
<popey> because most people aren't paranoid?
<zmoylan-pi> i *knew* you were going to say that... :-)
<foobarry> lol youtube is down
<foobarry> 500 Internal Server Error
<foobarry> Sorry, something went wrong.
<foobarry> A team of highly trained monkeys has been dispatched to deal with this situation.
<zmoylan-pi> crikey, were will the dregs of the internet go to comment??
<foobarry> still broked
<popey> it fixed for me after a refresh
<zmoylan-pi> someone needs to wiggle a few cables...
<foobarry> get a white csreen now
<foobarry> yesterday reddit, today youtube. somebody conspiring to make me do other things for lunch
<DJones> foobarry: Such as eating?
<BigRedS> yeah, I turned to ebay yesterday for lunchtime. That was expensive
<zmoylan-pi> break out the emergency 64gb usb drive of cat videos
 * zmoylan-pi wonders if there's a market for large outages were you can sell torches for stupid amounts on the street if there's now a window for usb drives filled with internet meme videos and pics...
<daftykins> yay new nvidia 1070 card on the way \o/
<zmoylan-pi> a warm winter ahead for daftykins :-)
<daftykins> haha, it's low power!
<Seeker`> saw four 1080s lined up in the office today
<daftykins> o0 what for?
<Myrtti> sweet, new Spotify client!
<tpe> Here I am sticking with a 750 Ti until I do a new system build...
<daftykins> that's not even vaguely sticking, i'm replacing a 560Ti from 2010/2011 :P
<daftykins> this 1070 will be a 6 fold improvement XD
<tpe> The 750 Ti was a forced replacement for a dead HD 4870. I'd probably still be on that if it hadn't fried itself. :)
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> i think that AMD is in legacy status now
<tpe> Has been for more than 5 years I think... I was relying on improvements to the r600g driver.
<daftykins> nah the fglrx driver would only drop given ranges here and there
<daftykins> at least that's my meaning for legacy
<diplo> I'm still using a 8800GTX, it struggles quite badly now
<daftykins> even my 560Ti does! 18fps on low in the new Hitman, @ 1920x1200
<Seeker`> I'm sticking with my GTX970 for now
<daftykins> i almost got one of those a while back, were it not for the RAM controversy
<halt> Hi guys, I have an old Blackberry phone, and few ubuntu desktop/ laptop all around is there any way to sync that to ubuntu ? on the BB site I found only windows drivers and apps
<daftykins> with what kind of content? sync means a different thing to different people
<daftykins> really though given the company is a walking zombie they should be abandoned
<halt> I'm intrested about the contacts only, and not keep in sync just download
<SuperMatt> pen and paper might be quicker ;)
<halt> really it's that bad ?
<diplo> Last time I did something for a friend, I believe you can sync contacts with Google halt
<diplo> Twas the easiest way I found
<diplo> Has been a while though
<halt> so I need to register a google account login on both the phone and ubuntu and then expect the magic, well that's something
<SuperMatt> that sounds like the best way
<daftykins> halt: what are the contacts in right now?
<daftykins> yeah in fairness before my first smartphone arrived i sorted all my contacts out on my gmail account and when it arrived, i had just to add the account then BAM all imported and also, online - so never again would i have to hear of the woes of contacts "on SIM" or "on phone"
<halt> on that one phone and on few of my old laptop where I used to have windows
<daftykins> the source of the contacts is that blackberry?
<halt> I don't use neither phone or windows anymore
<halt> daftykins: it's few years of collection on that phone yes that's the source
<diplo> I expect you can export to csv on the blackberry? then bluetooth to a laptop ?
<daftykins> yep i'd just type 'em out :P
<halt> I might take it into the office and give it to one of the intern
<daftykins> that's the spirit!
<daftykins> circle of life complete :)
<halt> never mind I found an free bb app for export all contact in vCard  format I saved it to sd card so now I just need to import it
<daftykins> you might have some fun with those :)
 * zmoylan-pi remembers the good old days transferring a lot of data between phone, palm and psions with good old vcards and infrared :-)
<daftykins> :D
<popey> I wish palm os was still a thing
<daftykins> i remember asking a volunteer sixth-former in the library if i could install PsiWin on the library computers
<daftykins> \o/
<marshmn> I loved Palm OS
<zmoylan-pi> the most convuluted complicated working application ever written in vb6 was psiwin...
<zmoylan-pi> if they made a palm still with graffitti 1, not 2 and had wifi or even just a bt bridge to a smartphone they'd still be selling.
<popey> Yeah, Palm was delightful
<marshmn> Graffiti was great!
<marshmn> I'd forgotten how good that felt
<zmoylan-pi> simcity on palmos... happy memories...
<marshmn> and I probably had more fun writing programs for Palm than any other programming I've ever done
<zmoylan-pi> avantgo for offline news...
<popey> beginning of the end of palm for me was when my Palm T|X wouldn't do any better than WEP for wifi security
<daftykins> that remained the case for the Nintendo DS :| very daft
<zmoylan-pi> some companies think the universe should revolve around their hardware
<marshmn> wow, just saw that Linode double the amount of RAM you get (for those who had 4GB or less)
<marshmn> nice.
<daftykins> i thought Linode always had very high prices
<foobarry> can i transfer multiple ISAs into one ISA in one year?
<foobarry> hmm provided you only pay into one active ISA per year and you're not locked into a fixed account).
<marshmn> daftykins: I think they're pretty reasonable? I pay $20 for 4GB VPS now
<daftykins> $5 for a 1GB at DO i think
<daftykins> (digital ocean)
<marshmn> OK, so that's about the same?
<marshmn> actually, DO is $5 for 512MB by the looks of it
<daftykins> only if you multiply directly
<daftykins> ah my mistake
<marshmn> it looks like the DO prices are pretty much the same as what Linode were prior to the recent upgrade
<marshmn> so now Linode is half the price
<marshmn> but I'm not really trying to convince anyone to use Linode
<marshmn> I've used it for a couple of years and has been good for me
<marshmn> YMMV
#ubuntu-uk 2016-06-23
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diplo> Morning all
<knightwise> morning peeps
<brobostigon> morning knightwise and diplo
<foobarry> /join #europe
<diplo> :P
<diplo> !politics
<lubotu3> Please take political discussion to ##politics-uk. Thank you!
<diplo> :D
<SuperMatt> ðªðº ðªðº ðªðº ðªðº ðªðº ðªðº ðªðº ðªðº ðªðº ðªðº ðªðº ðªðº
<MooDoo> morning all
 * awilkins thinks he will Remain... within the channel
<diplo> :P
<foobarry> justin
<diplo> bieber?
<MooDoo> take your politics elswhere :p
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | G+ Community: http://tinyurl.com/uukgplus | MeetUp: http://bit.ly/1RZE6X4 | VOTE!
 * Seeker` votes for more chocolate
<zmoylan-pi> vote chocolate hobnob, vote mug of tea
 * popey pops out to vote
<diplo> !vote chocolate!
<diplo> <lubotu3> Sorry, I don't know anything about 'vote chocolate!'
<diplo> :D
<zmoylan-pi> !up the kitkats \o/
<lubotu3> zmoylan-pi: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<foobarry> actually voted 2 weeks ago
<foobarry> which makes this whole horrible thing more unpleasant
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Thursday, and happy EU Referendum Day! ð
 * diplo just hasn't had telly on, although Europens on G+ are saying more about it than UK people i follow
<diplo> And I try to keep away from FB as much as poss
<zmoylan-pi> also the anniversary of the battle of plassey when in 1757 clive of india beat up some locals...
<MooDoo> I'm old, so I'll vote non of the abovr
<zmoylan-pi> no to chocolate??
<MooDoo> no to snything lol
<knightwise> Mate vm running in a tiny window on my Surface Pro in Win 10 :)
<knightwise> Best integration of the Linux Shell in Windows you can want :Ã
<zmoylan-pi> can't stop the linux mal
<TwistedLucidity> What's all the "Vote chocolate" about?
 * TwistedLucidity is out of the loop and chocolate is vital to life
<diplo> Exactly, so vote to keep chocolate :)
<JamesTait> Remember the story about the Belgians wanting us to rename our chocolate to "vegetable-based confectionary" or something, because they claimed the cocoa content was too low?  I assume it's a reference to that.
<TwistedLucidity> But is that in or out?
<zmoylan-pi> vegelate
<TwistedLucidity> The UK doesn't make much good chocolate
<zmoylan-pi> uk chocolate is poor, but also cheap, so plentiful
<foobarry> milk chocolate is so meh
<foobarry> except for eurpean ferrero rocher etc
<zmoylan-pi> kinda how we all look down on american chocolate
<knightwise> American chocolate is NOT chocolate
<JamesTait> And beer.
<foobarry> trying to decide if i prefer 70% cocao or 85%, i think 70% i slightly nicer
<zmoylan-pi> it's also a small % of cockroach
<TwistedLucidity> knightwise: Candlewax
<diplo> French beer is sooooo much smoother than the same branded stuff here
<TwistedLucidity> Beer + Picon = Win
<JamesTait> I had a bar of 85% G&B here in the office with me when we had the hot weather a few weeks ago.  It melted, then solidified, and it was amazing.
<Seeker`> 99% chocolate is good
<TwistedLucidity> Picon is a bitter orange liquer, can also be called Amer
<zmoylan-pi> the great thing about the strong chocolate is a tiny piece leaves the taste in you mouth for ages
<TwistedLucidity> Seeker`: Problem is, too much of that and your eyeballs vibrate out of your skull!
<foobarry> also. high cocoa content means you need to eat less
<TwistedLucidity> Hmm...I wonder if you could eat enough 99% for it to become toxic? (Theobromine poisoning)
<awilkins> Had some Green and Blacks last week
<awilkins> COuldn't decide whether Mondelez have ruined it or no
<awilkins> Will have to get some of the Milk and see
<awilkins> The ginger has too many wee bits in it to gauge mouth feel properly
<TwistedLucidity> LD50 is ~1g/kg; so 80g for an 80kg human. Dark chocolate can have >14g/kg. So you'd need to eat ~5.7kg of the good stuff to be at risk.
<diplo> Can tell what sort of channel we're in when you get answers like that
<diplo> Albeit we *are* on IRC :)
<TwistedLucidity> The TDLO is only 26mg/kg though; so 2.08g for an 80kg human. Or about 140g. That's doable.
<TwistedLucidity> I said chocolate was important
<TwistedLucidity> That and cheese
<zmoylan-pi> so if you sent someone 20kg of chocolate would that be considered a crime...
<TwistedLucidity> Only if they ate it all at once
<TwistedLucidity> If you want to kill someone with 50kg of chocolate, just hit them with it
<TwistedLucidity> s/50/20
<zmoylan-pi> death by kitkat...
<zmoylan-pi> no wait that has wafer... death by wispa
<TwistedLucidity> That has air and not enough cocoa
<foobarry> i think only dogs suffers from theobromides
<zmoylan-pi> death by bournville
<zmoylan-pi> cats too
<foobarry> my dog ate 2 easter eggs and cost us 250Â£ to get stomach pumpage
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: No, humans too. We can tolerate *much* more though
<TwistedLucidity> Onions, grapes...it's a wonder dogs have made it this far!
<zmoylan-pi> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theobromine_poisoning#In_other_species
<popey> \o/ voted
<popey> Nothing like a brisk walk to the voting booth in the rain
<zmoylan-pi> throwing up and pooping the rest clears out a lot of bad stuff
<TwistedLucidity> I shall be voting at luncheon
<MooDoo> tonight for me
<foobarry> my dog keeps picking up bird feathers. the other day i had to extract one from the back of his throat like a guy putting his head inside a crocs mouth
<foobarry> the last little end bit was visible and i retrieved it
<foobarry> he just loves those feathers
<TwistedLucidity> "LEAVE!"
<TwistedLucidity> Our Sib Husky caught a sick rabbit...took three of us to make her let it go. She has no "leave", yet
<foobarry> DROP DROP DROP
<foobarry> you have to swap with something of equal or higher value
<foobarry> like a sausage
<foobarry> or chicken
<zmoylan-pi> or harsh language
<TwistedLucidity> The mutt was a street dog and would hoover up anything. One of the first things he learnt was "leave"
<Seeker`> popey: do we get to blame you when everything goes wrong?
<foobarry> worst thing it cities is fried chicken
<foobarry> bones
<TwistedLucidity> Seeker`: Only if he voted the wrong way
<Seeker`> TwistedLucidity: I'm not sure that comes in to it
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Yup. Why people can't use a bin....
<TwistedLucidity> Seeker`: LOL
<foobarry> because teenager
<foobarry> and chavs
<popey> Seeker`: sure
<Seeker`> popey for president?
<popey> I'd rather "remain" in my current role thanks Seeker`
<foobarry> if REMAIN wins then farage shold go to the tower for the division he has caused this country
<foobarry> or send him back home
<Seeker`> popey: remaining in your current role sounds like a good idea
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: The fact his wife is German always cracks me up
<foobarry> racists are full of contradictions
<foobarry> like that EDL guy who had a black wife
<TwistedLucidity> Yeah, I think he likes the "right kind" of immigrant
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Whut?
<popey> or the people who are immigrants who say "close the border, no more immigrants"
<popey> "I'm okay though"
<foobarry> that happens every day on the train
<foobarry> move down the carriage, let me on. when they are on they get to next stop and tell the people on platform to F off, we're full
<foobarry> lifeboat mentality
<Seeker`> popey: you mean like 99% of the people in the US who say that?
<TwistedLucidity> We're all immigrants if you go back far enough. That's what I'd like to know, where do they draw the line?
<popey> heh
<diplo> The last years is my ffeeling TwistedLucidity
<diplo> 2 years*
<popey> "since I got in"
<diplo> heh
<popey> i think is the benchmark
<popey> foobarry: totally right
<TwistedLucidity> Have a revolution, make me your leader for life and I'll ensure I'm fine.
<popey> Be interesting to see what the BBC / YouGov / Whoever exit poll at 10pm will be.
<TwistedLucidity>  /\ At least I'm honest
<zmoylan-pi> vote for zmoylan-pi i'll ban mondays...
<foobarry> i'll ban eastenders
<MooDoo> how many people vote with pencils ;)
<TwistedLucidity> You can be vice-leader for life. foobarry can me culture secretary for life
<zmoylan-pi> and bring in a voted of the island once a year to banish the person who gets the most votes...
<Seeker`> popey: it'll be more interesting to see if the polls have been as wrong as the general election ones
<foobarry> a few weeks ago i though t65/35 due to not knowing anyone voting brexit. certainly nobody decent
<foobarry> the polls have surprised me
<Seeker`> I've seen people saying that they'll vote to leave because they don't like Cameron
<Seeker`> and they think that leaving will get him to step down. Worst reason to vote ever.
<TwistedLucidity> I know maybe 1 or 2 people voting Leave, everyone else is Remain. There again, most of the folks I know are highly educated and in IT
<foobarry> the rule of referenda seems to tend towards 50/50
<foobarry> as time goes on
<foobarry> general elections are good for that, not generational referenda
<popey> https://www.buzzfeed.com/chrisstokelwalker/faster-than-a-speeding-ballot?utm_term=.ye3w5YYyVq#.orKr9JJ8zM is a fun read
<Myrtti> I've heard of someone saying that they voted out because they want to see Boris as a pm, because 'it would be fun'
<foobarry> eejits
<TwistedLucidity> So....someone just to the right of Atilla the Hun would be "fun"?
<foobarry> its not the vehicle to do any of that
<Myrtti> UK election system fogs up the meaning of election to so many
<TwistedLucidity> We had the chance to fix it, but the odds were stacked against and the public choked
<Myrtti> yup
<Myrtti> I'm just worried that outside EU Tories or whatever idiots are in at the time are allowing themselves to be led into bad trading deals because there's no oversight
<Myrtti> like pigs to slaughter
<Myrtti> TTIP isn't much loved in any EU country as far as I can tell
<foobarry> i stand by my statement that i don't know any decent people voting out
<TwistedLucidity> Myrtti: Apart from the UK. I'm pretty sure the Tories love it because their paymasters tell them to
<Myrtti> yeah
<foobarry> the EU does good work against mega corp anti competition too
<foobarry> although i'm not sure where the $500M MS fine went to
<Myrtti> who knows, maybe that's the real reason for the referendum
<Myrtti> to get UK out from European oversight and to be ripped to shreds by multinational companies for their shareholders profit
<TwistedLucidity> Well, that's the plan for the NHS
<TwistedLucidity> So that Â£140m per week we save will go to some company from the BVI
<Myrtti> anyway, this is politics and I should know better
<TwistedLucidity> Surely we're allowed a pass today of all days?
<Myrtti> I wish I could vote :-(
<TwistedLucidity> The g/f gets all the In/Out stuff addressed to her, she can't vote. I, who can vote, don't get sent a thing. Odd.
<popey> my daughter had a debate at school a few weeks ago about it
<popey> they had to take sides, do research and then debate it.
<popey> she really enjoyed it
<Seeker`> popey: which side did she take?
<popey> Seeker`: remain
<TwistedLucidity> popey: Good, and thanks
<TwistedLucidity> And I totally misread that; sorry
<popey> I did wonder
<TwistedLucidity> The deed is done, now the trepidation can begin
<diplo> Me too, leave the TV off tonight, wake up to whatever has happened tomorrow
<foobarry> is the football having a day off?
<popey> awww, I'm staying up to watch the nonsense
<popey> fun thursday night telly
<foobarry> really? speculation and garbage all night from numpties?
<diplo> Really?!? It drives me insane
<diplo> Yeah exactly how I feel foobarry
<foobarry> 1 min after polls closed "well we don't know the result and can't change it now, how do you think it went"
<foobarry> i've only seen 1 thing on TV or internet about it
<foobarry> i've ignored it all but watched newsnight last night because my friend was on the panel
<DJones> foobarry: 2 days of from the football
<foobarry> :(
<foobarry> at least england are still in it
<foobarry> and wales
<DJones> And Ireland & Northern Ireland
<foobarry> what pos did NI finish?
<DJones> I think 3rd, but got through as a better loser
<foobarry> i watched SWE BEL yesterday, surprised to see ROI beat ITA
<DJones> Wales play NI
<foobarry> heh
<foobarry> 20 yrs of quake
<DJones> So at least 1 UK team will be in the next round
<foobarry> arsene wenger predicted a good showing from wales in this tournament, he's been proved very right
<DJones> Wonder if the footballers have voted by post, or will they allcome home if the vote is "Out"
<foobarry> judging by all their tattoos, i think they would all vote the same way, in a herd
<foobarry> they even all have the same hair
<SuperMatt> !football
<SuperMatt> darn, the bot doesn't recognise that
<foobarry> its lunchtime so its job hunting time
<foobarry> experiencing post-pastie regret
<foobarry> pasty
<SuperMatt> surely there's no such thing?
<foobarry> feel all greasy and meh
<foobarry> need an apple to cleanse my palate
<SuperMatt> or maybe some ginger
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Whut? ROI beat ITA? 8-O
<TwistedLucidity> Iceland Vs Hengalund will be fun
<DJones> Go Wales :)
<TwistedLucidity> Or, as the T-shirts North of the border say "A.B.E. Anyone But England" :-P
<popey> yay, yougov survey o'clock
<popey> http://imgur.com/KF4ijXc
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> it doesn't go high enough!
<daftykins> perhaps the question should be flipped in this modern age; "How often do you not use the internet?"
<Seeker`> never not use the internet
<dwatkins> "whilst I'm conscious"
<dwatkins> "sometimes whilst I'm not..."
<daftykins> nothing worse than that sleep IRCing
<dwatkins> I was apparently laughing in my sleep the other night, perhaps I'd had a dream about something I found on reddit.
<foobarry> my dog started humping in his sleep
<TwistedLucidity> Nice
<brmbrmcar> ooh
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p03xpwbw/professor-green-dangerous-dogs <- Very interesting
<directhex> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRxcSNaVCPA
<popey> haha
<popey> thats excellent
<popey> can't believe I've never seen it
<popey> "The Steam Store is experiencing some heavy load right now. Please try again later."
<popey> fany that
<daftykins> if only they had preempted a sale they pick the date for and somehow beefed up a nice HA site
<MartijnVdS> Ooh the new Citation Needed episode.. about "a Pope Infestation"
<MartijnVdS> popey: ^
<popey> hah
<popey> not seen that podcast
 * popey adds it to podbird
<MartijnVdS> it's a youtube series
<MartijnVdS> or do they do audio versions too?
<popey> seems like it
<foobarry> just realised the neighbours theme tune is actually about the referendum
<zmoylan-pi> i thought it was about making the rest of the world suffer for all those convict jokes... :-P
<foobarry> spent the whole evening last night moving to a new ISA. tedious
<diddledan_> evenin
<daftykins> hello chap, how goes it?
<diddledan_> not bad ta
<diddledan_> heading home tomorra
<diddledan_> wales will have to suffer my absence
<daftykins> the valleys will not be the same, i'm sure
<diddledan_> aye
<diddledan_> they are lush tho
<daftykins> my trip there for the bike park gave me the feeling it's a tough place to find work in? that anywhere near the truth?
<diddledan_> yeah I believe so
<diddledan_> especially in the north and the south. and the bits inbetween
<diddledan_> WHEEEE
<diddledan_> daftykins: do the islands get to vote in this eu nonsense?
<daftykins> wholly separate government, i don't know if anyone would get refused if they were in England... i don't know if they'd be checking ID or what have you
<daftykins> we're already outside the EU so it probably wouldn't fit
<diddledan_> I don't actually know what the political landscape is between the british and the islands
<daftykins> to be blunt, we're the UK gov's whipping targets
<diddledan_> still, at least you're thought-of :-p
<daftykins> any deal is bound to make us suffer one way or another :P
<diddledan_> yeah. sucky nuts.
<daftykins> haha, only for what we might be doing wrong... i had to calm myself when i saw some idiot parroting the 'tax haven channel islands' rubbish the other day
<zmoylan-pi> daftykins can't light his cigars with Â£50 notes anymore and has had to cut back to using fivers... :-P
<daftykins> good ol' Sark over there (*points*) wasn't long ago still feudal :)
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: preci... hey wait a minute!
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan_> wait, they're not feudal anymore?
<daftykins> don't think so
<diddledan_> ooh. progress
<daftykins> 'tis a simple land, over thar :)
<daftykins> gotta get yourself booked into a hotel for the annual sheep race!
<zmoylan-pi> no more watery bints handing out swords? :-)
<diddledan_> that silly woman would give a sword to any tom frank or harry
<daftykins> i'd imagine they can still be punished with a thin cane in local law, shuold they step uot
<zmoylan-pi> but the violence inherent in the system hopefully is still there... :-P
<daftykins> out, ugh it really is well past new keyboard time
<diddledan_> I mean Arthur of all people. why should he get one?
<popey> not long now brexiters!
<popey> welp, day one of steam sale, only bought one game
<popey> I call that success
<diddledan_> popey: I hope not
 * diddledan_ wants to be firmly inside
<popey> we'll soon see
<popey> I predict the BBC will do an exit poll and it will be accurate
<zmoylan-pi> was the game minecraft and you intend to build functional versions of all the other games in it? :-D
<daftykins> pixel by pixel
<diddledan_> I like pixies
<zmoylan-pi> then build a functional minecraft in minecraft and get a refund...
<diddledan_> perhaps there should be a market for selling creations made in minecraft
<daftykins> and a free copy of Inception on blurry
<diddledan_> then we need a steam inside minecraft
<diddledan_> isn't it interesting how the word inception has changed in meaning from "creation" to "recursion" since the movie?
<daftykins> indeed!
<zmoylan-pi> words change all the time... i have one ocd mate who is slightly upset that the dictionary definition of literally is no longer literal...
<zmoylan-pi> that and they removed gullible from the dictionary...
<daftykins> >:)
<daftykins> i bet the Welsh dictionary is a delight
<zmoylan-pi> hard to get past L in it...
<daftykins> must be costly to print :)
<zmoylan-pi> they leave it blank after the L's and no one has noticed so far...
<popey> booo
<popey> no exit poll
<zmoylan-pi> might need an hour or two for last numbers to be punched into lotus 123 and fiddled with...
<daftykins> db errors fixed by hand ;D
<zmoylan-pi> damn that bobby drop tables!!
<daftykins> diddledan_: Louis is the man - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qM6EO7_5cho
<zmoylan-pi> guardian has a page ready for when the numbers start coming in... http://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2016/jun/23/eu-referendum-live-results-and-analysis
<diddledan_> popey: what happened to it?
<diddledan_> gibraltar got to vote, but the channel islands don't!
<diddledan_> they had turnout of 84% apparently on the rock
<zmoylan-pi> they'd just eat the polling cards...
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> http://guernseypress.com/news/2016/06/23/islanders-stock-up-on-euros-before-referendum/
<diddledan_> daftykins: are you all morons as zmoylan-pi suggests?
<daftykins> hahaha
<zmoylan-pi> i didn't suggest they were morons, just hungry...
<daftykins> i thought that was a pizza i just ate
<diddledan_> zmoylan-pi: you're backtracking now :-p
<diddledan_> zmoylan-pi: you should have a stronger backbone :-D
 * diddledan_ giggles
<daftykins> i'm still watching the jagermeister repair
<diddledan_> swapping devices. brb
<diddledan> Moo
<daftykins> wouldn't want the mac to see the repair video, very wise
<ali1234> will 16.04.1 release before 15.10 goes out of support?
<diddledan> It's supposed to
<diddledan> I think?
<ali1234> i ask because i have a mix of 14.04 and 15.10 machines and i want to upgrade them all at the same time
<ali1234> 16.04.1 is supposed to release on july 21st
<daftykins> that does remind me that i feel there was a time where there was a delay between o0 not sure if i'm imagining it though
<ali1234> well 13.10 has 2 years support didn't it?
<ali1234> had*
<ali1234> no, it didnt
<ali1234> 13.10 EOL on july 17th
<ali1234> 2014
<ali1234> 14.04.1 released on july 23rd
<daftykins> yeah there's the gap
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> that's mildly annoying
<daftykins> seem to remember some #ubuntu types whinging at the time, i suggested many a refund be requested those few days
<daftykins> ;)
<ali1234> one time i asked if i could buy single user support that would actually guarantee my bugs get fixed, or at least someone assigned to them
<daftykins> how'd that go?
<ali1234> they said no?
<daftykins> d'aww, i don't have a clue on the paid support options from Canonical
<diddledan> Shut up and take my money
<ali1234> they have paid support options... but i don't need that kind of support
<ali1234> "have you tried turning it off and then on again"
<diddledan> Ooh, good idea
 * diddledan tries
<zmoylan-pi> but because it's linux you do it backwards by turning it on and off again
<diddledan> Nope it's still broken
<diddledan> Wait, it's supposed to display an image?!
<diddledan> Ooooooh
<diddledan> Has anyone won, yet?
<awilkins> No returns yet
<popey> haha, unsurprising 19k of 20k votes in Gibralta are remain
<czajkowski> only anbother 381 more to declare :)
<diddledan> Newcastle about to declare
<zmoylan-pi> they prefer wine over ale
<diddledan> Lots of thumbs are being twiddled right now
<daftykins> i'm not fussy, i'll have a small wale please
<diddledan> Whale?
<zmoylan-pi> mmmm, battered whale and chips...
<diddledan> Poor Whale getting battered. That's animal cruelty
<diddledan> Call the RSPCA
<zmoylan-pi> it was coming right at us...
<diddledan> I'm swipey typey using SwiftKey. Funky
<diddledan> Gotta love tablet IRC
<daftykins> tough dose to swallow ;)
<diddledan> Aye
<diddledan> Close
<popey> here we go
<popey> 129,072 / remain 65,404 / leave 63,598
<popey> wow, thats stupid close
<czajkowski> very very close
<czajkowski> 49.3% leave 50.7% remain - not much in it
<Filbert> need to change my host mask...
<Filbert> lest I get burned at the stake
 * popey gets the matches
<czajkowski> Orkney also are remain
<czajkowski> but still not a massive remain there
<Filbert> no cameras in Orkney
<Filbert> they're all in bed
<diddledan> Silly delay on the TV from Sunderland
<daftykins> my folks asked if i want a 17" CRT kept, from their place :D
<diddledan> Err
<daftykins> that'd be a blast from the past!
<diddledan> Methinks burn it with fire
<daftykins> it'd implode!
<czajkowski> John Curtis is not seeing the funny side of the chatter on the BBC
<popey> hah, i like the meter at the top of http://www.theguardian.com/uk
<Filbert> getting rid of the miserable woman on the beeb
<Filbert> the woman who can't do 382-3
<czajkowski> angry lady is back on
<Filbert> good man dave, pointing out her inability to do maths
<daftykins> there'll be a backlash later on social notworking
<czajkowski> hmm
<popey> 134,400 / remain 51,930 / leave 82,394
<popey> hm
<popey> who are all these imbeciles who mark both boxes?
<czajkowski> numpties
<Filbert> people deliberately spoiling the ballot?
<popey> people are weird
<Filbert> hence we have people voting leave ;)
<popey> well indeed
<Filbert> I wanted to go to bed :(
<popey> think i might and put telly on in bed
<czajkowski> Pound has already had a knock from the Dollar :(
<Filbert> big uptick in the pound and FTSE today
<Filbert> much volatility tomorrow I suspect
<Filbert> wow, just seen... pound taken a huge knock
<zmoylan-pi> remain it does well, exit and it tanks
<czajkowski> grand job, at least hotel check out tomorrow is at 12, so I can in fact stay up all night to watch the results
<popey> where u?
<czajkowski> london - waterloo in fact
<czajkowski> speaking tomorrow at an event
<diddledan> Wow the pound is being pummelled
<Filbert> czajkowski: https://dwq4do82y8xi7.cloudfront.net/x/YWZZA5Ie/
<czajkowski> really do we actually need to have the news during this, nothing has changed and we're all watching the results come in so covering them again seems rather pointless
<czajkowski> Filbert: doesn't look goo d
<Filbert> yeah they need to fill the airtime some how
<Filbert> only so long that david can carry on without suffering a stroke
<daftykins> yay for the â¬35 on my desk XD
<Filbert> (seriously though, news is a good way to let the presenters have a bog/cigarette/etc. break)
<popey> dimblebot is a machine
<diddledan> daftykins: is that your contingency fund?
<czajkowski> dimblebot?
<daftykins> diddledan: yep, i shall buy a kingdom
<popey> how can you not know dimblebot!
<popey> https://twitter.com/dimblebot
<daftykins> not everyone twatters!
<diddledan> Twits
<ahayzen> omg the website http://dimblebot.com/
<popey> worth following during Question Time
<Filbert> what's this mad woman on about?
<Filbert> good on you bbc, not showing what the mad ukip woman is talking about
<popey> never seen a ukipper who didnt come across as a loon when pressed
<popey> carswell is about as sober as they get
<Filbert> fair point
<Filbert> crumbs, now it's the academic that makes other academics look like proles
<czajkowski> this guy looks like death warmed up
<diddledan> I've got some Welsh bit currently
<popey> nice blue rinse that chap has
<Filbert> channel 4 logo!
<Filbert> ah, alas not
<czajkowski> the referrendum looksjust reminds me of Google
<Filbert> oh, a forrin person
<czajkowski> *logo
<Filbert> she doesn't sound polish
<czajkowski> Filbert: well neither do I!
<Filbert> it's very confusing, all these people with strange surnames but non-matching accents
<LauraFautley> Good Day
<Filbert> no.
<popey> wat
<popey> cztab no longer works
<popey> this will not do
<diddledan> I'm still getting used to your new surname LauraFautley
<Filbert> popey: she did this on the other network a few days ago, it's rather annoying
<Filbert> diddledan: nor am I!
<LauraFautley> Filbert: your face is annoying
<LauraFautley> popey: it confuses me at times as it's similar to Filbert sister first name
<LauraFautley> keep thinking she;s doing similar stuff!
<LauraFautley> popey: lau tab works
<popey> bah
<popey> we dont like change
<LauraFautley> lol
<diddledan> Czajkowski is too recognisable to lose :-p
<LauraFautley> bah
<czajkowski> are you all happy now
<diddledan> :-p
<Filbert> much better
<Filbert> hm, I have run out of scotch
<Filbert> (well, this bottle...)
<diddledan> Drunkard
<czajkowski> Filbert: try the birthdat port!
<Filbert> nah
<Filbert> its not a port sort of evening
<popey> hah
<czajkowski> Filbert: honey mead?
<popey> i had half a bottle of port earlier
<czajkowski> or the new gin
<czajkowski> do not touch my honey cider!
<popey> ooh, milliband
<popey> pass the bacon sarnies
<czajkowski> his mouth just moves weirdly
<Filbert> popey: marginally more forgivable than half a bottle of scotch!
<diddledan> You'll drunkards
<Filbert> at least I'm being patriotic (sort of)
<diddledan> Spellcheck
<popey> smashing cheese grommit
<diddledan> Was supposed to be ya'll
 * Filbert remembers he has work tomorrow :/
<Filbert> but depending on the result, perhaps not for much longer...
<popey> hah
<popey> i mean :(
<czajkowski> :o
<czajkowski> Filbert: ok you cna stay at home and tend to the pets and do the housework so
<Filbert> hmm
<Filbert> no.
<popey> house husband?
<Filbert> I'll move to Dublin
<Filbert> with my new found citizenship
<czajkowski> Filbert: you need me to move there with you to get that and I'm not budging from here, I've invaded and planted my flag!
<Filbert> I don't think I do - I just need to demonstrate that I've been there for 3 years
<daftykins> hehe
<czajkowski> http://bit.ly/28P310v  my slide for tomorrow!
<Filbert> czajkowski: at least you got the flag the right way up!
<czajkowski> Filbert: yes I do remember you saying something about the flag recently
<Filbert> fat stripe top left
<popey> https://twitter.com/darrenh1/status/746107541717934080
<Filbert> popey: olde.
<popey> oh
<czajkowski> Swindon!
<Filbert> here we go...
<diddledan> K, I'm gonna have to get some sleep
<czajkowski> diddledan: dont leave us!
<czajkowski> wos didn't see that coming
<Filbert> expected
<Filbert> it's a shithole
<daftykins> diddledan: back to the grind 'pon the morrow?
<Filbert> (sorry to any Swindonites here)
<diddledan> Travelling tomorrow
<daftykins> ah
<daftykins> true, many Guernseys to be driven
<diddledan> :-D
<daftykins> gl sir!
#ubuntu-uk 2016-06-24
<czajkowski> where on earth is ketterling
<czajkowski> *kettering
<Filbert> the grim north
<popey> also an olde hale & pace joke
<daftykins> not nearly as warm as kettling
<czajkowski> Not gopd
<m0nkey_> I have a four letter word in mind. Rhymes with duck.
<m0nkey_> 52% leave vs 48% remain
<m0nkey_> GBP has already tanked
<m0nkey_> Down $1.50 to $1.30
<popey> :(
<m0nkey_> Canadian dollar took a hit too.. $0.78 to $0.76
<m0nkey_> Economically, we're screwed.
<m0nkey_> 249K votes required for leave to win
<czajkowski> ant believe it's happened
<m0nkey_> Seems BBC is calling it.
<m0nkey_> http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36615028
<czajkowski> aye only 37K votes needed to have it offical
<m0nkey_> 37K votes required for leave to win
<m0nkey_> Leave has won
<m0nkey_> :(
<Myrtti> feeling physically sick now
<m0nkey_> Arun voted 62.5% leave to 37.5% remain
<m0nkey_> Arun was my district
<m0nkey_> However, it'll be at least two years before it actually happens.
<apt-get-moo> (
<m0nkey_> I'm disappointed because I never received my postal vote.
<m0nkey_> So I never got my say
<Myrtti> I think my Internet today is done
<m0nkey_> Me too
<m0nkey_> It's happening already: http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36611512
<m0nkey_> That's enough internet for me tonight.
<m0nkey_> Cya
<knightwise> Just some more proof that the media is the sheppard of the simple minded sheep
<diplo> Morning all
<diddledan> Duck
<diddledan> Just seen the news
<diplo> Cameron standing down too
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning popey
<knightwise> popey: I realy thought that Mycroft was YOU in the beginning of the podcast
<knightwise> I thought : WOW , popey is making fun of HPR by doing an HPR style intro to the podcast .. and he is REALY good at it
<popey> lulz
<popey> we weren't "making fun" btw :)
<knightwise> So were you the voice-model for mycroft or is this a freak coÃ¯ncidence ?
<popey> I was
<knightwise> So what did ou have to do to "enable" mycroft to talk ? Read every word known to man out loud into a mike ?
<popey> https://www.vocalid.co/  - I visited that site and recorded around 3700 sentences
<popey> they analyzed them and turned them into a voice file
<knightwise> And immortality is now within your grasp !
<popey> haha
 * TwistedLucidity imagines a Glaswegian vocalid.....
<TwistedLucidity> "Mycroft, what's the weather like?" "Dinnae fash pal, it's nae bad."
<diplo> I'd use that !!!
<diplo> :)
<TwistedLucidity> I'd do one, but I'm not a Weegie.
<TwistedLucidity> So you'd a have some weird Norn Iron, Scots, other mash-up. Not pleasant.
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/scottsweather.mp3
<popey> doesn't sound right
<diplo> Will get my gran to do one, that would be hilarious :)
<TwistedLucidity> Aye, braw.
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Friday, and happy Swim a Lap Day! ð  ð
<popey> Swim the channel day.
<SuperMatt> lawls
<foobarry> throw farage in the channel day
<foobarry> slow clap day
<popey> I really hoped this would be the day we say goodbye to Farage
<SuperMatt> so had I
<foobarry> democracy is only good if your country aren't numpties
<daftykins> wow graphics cards got big https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8iiftw23glst03v/AAAD3QXUYgpmkNdK2LYNVJqca?dl=0
<diplo> Tis huge!
<diplo> Late it flat and it's probably ove rhalf the size of the mobo :P
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> lovely nvidia 1070 \o/
<diplo> lay it*
<diplo> I'd love one, need the rest of the machine though too
<TwistedLucidity> daftykins: Is the GNU/Linux compatibility good?
<daftykins> mmm, i did that back in April
<daftykins> TwistedLucidity: haha, yeah i'm going to drop Â£360 on a graphics card and then castrate it by running an OS that hamstrings it
<TwistedLucidity> I kinda thought that would be the case.
<daftykins> sorry, i just find it a funny commonality in Linux channels :)
<daftykins> i might boot a distro for fun later, but i don't think it'd work very well from nouveau :D
<daftykins> this is my first time using displayport too o0 my lovely 2008 Dell LCDs have had v1.1 support all this time, first time i've owned hardware with it though
<TwistedLucidity> Now that SteamOS seem to be basically dead, I don't hold out much hope for nvidia getting their act together
<TwistedLucidity> All my kit is too old to have new fangled things like displayport.
<daftykins> although AMD are allegedly turning things around with their new open driver, i have read rumours that their new Radeon RX480 has driver issues in the hands of reviewers... on Windows :|
<brobostigon> it seems my fiance voted out, so disappointed.
<TwistedLucidity> brobostigon: Oh dear.
<brobostigon> exactly.
<TwistedLucidity> People have a right to their opinion. If there is a coherent argument behind is (even one you disagree with), at least you can respect that.
<diplo> brobostigon: you voting her out now ? :D
<popey> friend of mine posted on fb... "Can anyone who's friends with me who voted leave please identify yourself."
<diplo> Although I do agree with TwistedLucidity :)
<popey> made me chuckle
<foobarry>  TwistedLucidity , started watching that dog porgramme
<diplo> Seen quite a few of those posts now popey
<brobostigon> diplo: vote out my fiance? well, no.
<foobarry> first scene was a tunnel i had walked thru in bethnal green earlier that day
<foobarry> i know where the dog hideout was
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Yikes
<foobarry> and the caravan site thing
<foobarry> i would not bring kids up in e london
<brobostigon> TwistedLucidity: yes, i respect her decision.
<foobarry> i always thought 50% were below average intelligence. turns out its 52%
<TwistedLucidity> I think a big problem was the low Remain turn-out and the poor Remain campaign (which Crobyn has to carry a lot of blame for)
<TwistedLucidity> Anyway... !politics
<popey> I agree. Corbyn was worse than useless.
<foobarry> because he is an outy
<TwistedLucidity> Did you see him on "The Last Leg"?
<popey> no
<foobarry> but his lips said inny
<popey> can't watch that programme
<TwistedLucidity> Oh, it can be quite funny. Nick Clegg came across really well. As in, a decent person. Corbyn...err...damp facecloth
<TwistedLucidity> Depends on your humour I guess
<popey> Yeah, I quite like Nick Clegg as a human
<TwistedLucidity> I won't repeat why my g/f said about Farage....
<TwistedLucidity> "what"
<diplo> Does this mean we can no longer enter the EuroVision content?!?
<daftykins> XD
<diplo> Friends daughter laid off by German logistics co in UK who announced they are closing, effective this morning. And so it starts. < emeacludguy on twitter
<diplo> Didn't think things would happen so quickly
<daftykins> pff
<daftykins> the sensationalism will, yes
<diplo> I guess it's also an excuse to be able to do it as well
<daftykins> totally, i'm sure there's some substance to it but maybe someone is just throwing their toys out
<diplo> :)
<popey> diplo: given Australia are in Eurovision....
<diplo> hehe I did think about it after i typed it :)
<popey> diplo: no such twitter account...
<popey> ah, dick
<daftykins> bit rude ;)
<popey> it's his name
<diplo> Yeah, lives down the road from me
<daftykins> yeah that's what the wink was
<popey> https://twitter.com/EMEACloudGuy/status/746294717655158784
<popey> kk
<popey> for the logs, clarifying :)
<daftykins> :D
<diplo> Couldn't link from my client and was too lazy to open up browser :D
<daftykins> i was over at a clients + friend of my dads Dick the other day, who was working in the house with his colleagues husband Dick just to keep it simple
<diplo> heh
<daftykins> hehe xe.com is getting trashed with everyone looking at currency stuffs
<zmoylan-pi> time for people to check their holiday money jar for all those foreign coins...
<popey> this is handy...
<popey> https://dwq4do82y8xi7.cloudfront.net/dailyfx/widgetembed/?symbol=FX%3AGBPUSD&interval=D&hidesidetoolbar=0&symboledit=1&toolbarbg=f4f7f9&studies=&hideideas=1&theme=White&timezone=exchange&studies_overrides=%7B%7D&overrides=%7B%7D&enabled_features=%5B%5D&disabled_features=%5B%5D&locale=en&utmsource=www.dailyfx.com&utmmedium=www.dailyfx.com/gbp-usd
<popey> realtime
<popey> shows the long view too
<daftykins> ooh thank ye, i was trying to find something to support the whole 'crash' news but couldn't find anyones that was loading
<daftykins> definitely not as good as $1.50 to the Â£1 was, it's going to sting a bit more if i go to the US this year now!
<zmoylan-pi> someone will be sitting somewhere with a white cat thinking, i could buy uk now...
<diplo> Got fairly low in March as well then
<daftykins> i take it somewhere, someone did a Python parody scene "What did the EU ever do for us?"
<zmoylan-pi> today is not over yet
<popey> yes daftykins, Patrick Stewart
<TwistedLucidity> It was a good read too
<popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptfmAY6M6aA
<popey> tis fun
<TwistedLucidity> Oh, didn't know he'd done a vid too
<diplo> What a day, now a non-confidence proposal put on Corbyn :/
<popey> Good.
<TwistedLucidity> Apparently the Little Englanders are now beginning to wonder what leaving the EU means (according to Google search requests)
<zmoylan-pi> let me guess no one concensus?
<TwistedLucidity> I don't think the concensus can be stated in a family-friendly channel. But is does rhyme with "Tucked"
<zmoylan-pi> mucked up, yup
<TwistedLucidity> Yeah, mucked up. Ahem.
<popey> :)
<popey> ALL CHANGE! Everybody out!
<daftykins> popey: hehe knew someone had to!
<TwistedLucidity> diplo: He has been a waste of space. Which is a shame as it was nice to have a different voice in British politics for once.
<popey> +1
<popey> different voice, no backbone
<diplo> Ed Miliband was also bad, if his brother had been voted in I'd have probably voted for labour as would a lot of people I know
<Laney> Interesting isn't it
<Laney> The expected coalition would have ditched the referendum promise
<TwistedLucidity> popey: So...different voice, same backbone (i.e. none)
<popey> Laney: really, didnt know that.
<TwistedLucidity> Yup, Lib Dems were against it
<popey> That Nick Clegg, he had his faults, but he was a nice chap :)
<Laney> So you can blame this on the pollsters in the last parliament
<Laney> :P
<foobarry> nick who?
<knightwise> Yet another perfect example of : He who owns the media , ownes the world
<ali1234> http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/coinbaseGBP#rg2zig15-minztgMzm1g10zm2g25 :D :D :D
<popey> So, Tom Watson for Labour leader?
<diplo> Didnt even know who he was till I googled him :/
<foobarry> i used to like tom w, but realised he was a douche too
<foobarry> douche about Iraq war, subsequent investigation, expenses and the leon brittan thing was horrific
<TwistedLucidity> Is there an MP worth supporting? Seems that by the time they gain power, they've become tainted
<ali1234> we'll probably end up with chris leslie
<ali1234> he's basically a clone of tony blair
<ali1234> he's the unofficial leader of what remains of new labour
<Myrtti> let's try this getting up from bed thing again
<Myrtti> maybe with chocolate and ice cream
<Myrtti> and orange soda, and chicken.
<foobarry> this pi zero was never meant to be networked
<foobarry> get to choose keyboard or wifi
<foobarry> need to find my usb hub
<popey> do both usb ports function as usb?
<popey> can you thus power it from the gpio pins?
<foobarry> don't think so, but gonna check
<foobarry> One is a Power only, the other is Data only
<foobarry> have an issue where i need to configure the wifi device
<foobarry> think it needs the nonfree firmware package
<foobarry> might try a non powered hub but suspect it wont work
<popey> yeah, i had this issue
<popey> had to use a hub
<popey> powered one
<daftykins> who knows that feeling when you pick up low fat cheese because it's 50% in the supermarket, you convince yourself to get it and it's never as good :(
<daftykins> 50% off, even
<diplo> It's 50% off for a reason :P
<daftykins> beware people, this is what island life outside the EU is ;)
<TwistedLucidity> I messed up in Lidl, but in reverse. I like their low fat Greek yoghurt as part of breakfast. Grabbed the full-fat by mistake...soooooo rich. Soooo fatty. Bleurgh.
<daftykins> haha, fight through!
<TwistedLucidity> A small bit dolloped on top of cereal would have been fine, but I had a bowl of the stuff!
<daftykins> D:
<ali1234> i just sent 6 laserjat cartridges back to HP. post off ice man was not happy
<diplo> . /usr/bin/byobu-reconnect-sockets
<diplo> . /usr/bin/byobu-reconnect-sockets
<diplo> . /usr/bin/byobu-reconnect-sockets
<diplo> . /usr/bin/byobu-reconnect-sockets
<diplo> . /usr/bin/byobu-reconnect-sockets
<diplo> . /usr/bin/byobu-reconnect-sockets
<popey> uh-huh
<diplo> dunno what happened there :D
<diplo> Ah another keyboard slipped on f-keys I think
 * Seeker` reconnects diplo's sockets
<TwistedLucidity> Is this the channel for that sort of thing?
 * TwistedLucidity summons the spirit of Whitehouse
<arsenip> How's the mood on the isles of taxinium, daftykins ?:D
<daftykins> hrmm dunno! i don't even follow local news :)
<daftykins> arsenip: how's life in arsenipland? :>
<arsenip> not bad not bad! apparently the world has ended but i see blue sky here :s
<daftykins> i've heard some very odd comments from UK folks yeah, one mate up in Brighton acting all down about things
<daftykins> s'like er, i don't see what's gonna change your life :P
<arsenip> indeed, we'll see!
<ali1234> is there any point buying a 6700K if i don't want to overclock?
<daftykins> ali1234: i chose a 6700 vanilla since it's 65W instead of 91W TDP and includes a nice retail heatsink
<ali1234> but isn't the 6700K only 91W if you only overclock it? otherwise it is exactly the same?
<daftykins> buying the K, you've got more power then... need to source a heatsink too i'm pretty sure - and then it's only a bit faster
<daftykins> nah that's its' set TDP
<daftykins> it's probably down to whether you run more single or multithreaded workloads
<ali1234> i run exclusively multithreaded
<daftykins> so you'd benefit from the consistent higher clocks of the K
<sebsebseb> hi
#ubuntu-uk 2016-06-25
<mapps> hi
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<knightwise> morning
<foobarry> pi zero behaving oddly: http://imgur.com/ALmon9s
<foobarry> video corruption
<SuperEngineer> checked temperature?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<foobarry> yeah, only just turned it on
<foobarry> have a mini hdmi adapter, could be that
<foobarry> no way to test though
<foobarry> background of terminal screen is the same. just for the blacks
<foobarry> maybe res is too high for my tv
<foobarry> could be EDID related
<SuperEngineer> Any Goat Simulator players here?  I'm considering buying  getting the "Waste of Space" add-on [in Steam Sale]. Question: is it a good DLC or not worth Â£2.99  / disk space etc.???
<diddledan_> afternoon
<ali1234> does the asus z170-a have good linux support?
<MooDoo> evening all
<penguin42> hey
<daftykins> \o
<diddledan_> m00
<daftykins> \o
<diddledan_> o/
<diddledan_> o/\o <-- high five!
<diddledan_> or.. bignose
<daftykins> did you see my graphics card porn?
<steveplenty> Hi Everyone
<daftykins> o/
<daftykins> :(
<zmoylan-pi> you have to wonder if it's their first time on irc or something
<daftykins> mmm!
<diddledan_> nope, didn't see the porn
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8iiftw23glst03v/AAAD3QXUYgpmkNdK2LYNVJqca?dl=0 !
<daftykins> much faster now >8)
<diddledan_> nice
<daftykins> diddledan_: you flashed that card of yours yet ;)
<diddledan_> not yet
<diddledan_> been in wales land
<daftykins> it's been months XD
<diddledan_> shush
<diddledan_> :-p
<penguin42> daftykins: Does it double as a quadcopter?
<daftykins> maybe a pair strapped together :)
<diddledan_> daftykins: judging by that cooler it both sucks and blows :-p
<diddledan_> brb. reboobing
<diddledan> m00
<diddledan> Was in tesco earlier and the cashier asked a foreign couple if they needed help packing their bags. Jeesh, we only voted out yesterday!
#ubuntu-uk 2016-06-26
<daftykins> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MSI-MS-7507-VER-1-0-945GCM7-F-LGA775-Motherboard-CPU-Memory-and-Back-Plate-/112034555316
<daftykins> hahaha, look at this pic!
<penguin42> hmmm
<daftykins> my poor old desktop setup needed some love to POST again after reuniting it with my old graphics card, CMOS reset wasn't enough... but removing ATX power did the job
<zmoylan-pi> nice to see them stored in such good condition....
<daftykins> absolutely
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan> morning
<penguin42> hey
<daftykins> \o
<diddledan> o/
<zmoylan-pi> \o\
<diddledan> HBO's westworld looks fun
<diddledan> cominb to sky atlantic (if you get that) in octember
<diddledan> coming*
<zmoylan-pi> i remember the original movie... it was alright
<zmoylan-pi> i think i preferred both rollerball and planet of the apes over it
<diddledan> there's a trailer at http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0475784/
<zmoylan-pi> and silent running
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/bv469wvscnd4ttf/20160626231140_1.jpg?dl=0 pew pew
<daftykins> nothing like a good bit of assassination in Hitman land
<SebthreeBQM10HD> daftykins, what do you think of brexit hmm ?
<daftykins> i don't want to touch that topic, i'm not English
<SebthreeBQM10HD> daftykins, your not from the UK you mean or?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> I thought you were
<daftykins> i'm from Guernsey, we've been outside the EU from the start :)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> oh right Guernsey I see
<SebthreeBQM10HD> and yeah that sort of goes under Britian
<SebthreeBQM10HD> sort of
<daftykins> no
<SebthreeBQM10HD> well it's a British ISle isn't it, that's what I mean really,
<daftykins> slight pet peeve of mine is folks trying to tell me what my own home is ;)
 * diddledan assasses daftykins
<SebthreeBQM10HD> ok what do you think your own home is then ?
<diddledan> oh myy
<SebthreeBQM10HD> daftykins, what's Gurenese actsaully like by the way, apparnatly quite nice, but I have never been there
<ali1234> they have a webpage to answer this exact question: https://www.gov.gg/guernseyandtheworld
<ali1234> i find that slightly amusing
<ali1234> like they must get asked so often they made a FAQ
<diddledan> daftykins: were there a load of boats blocking the harbour the past day or so. my brother was on a minicruise and they had to skip guernsey for some reason
<daftykins> ali1234: well it's a bit like when idiots start calling us a tax haven, too much misinformation out there - so might as well answer it once :D
<daftykins> diddledan: o rry, i know we get a lot of cruise ships so that's a surprise - yeah perhaps there were too many between the rocks
<daftykins> that's a shame, he could've had a nice little tour on this thing! https://www.dropbox.com/s/4coy4brk01uolkb/IMG_20160530_164439.jpg?dl=0
<diddledan> yeah I wanna go on that train (bournmouth calls theirs âthe noddy trainâ so I use that term for all such things)
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> regarding tax haven, I donât actually understand that term in itâs entirety
<diddledan> I think most people don't
<diddledan> they heard someone say it once and so they repeat it
<daftykins> i think you're right there
<diddledan> Iâm annoyed at the new name for the apple computer operating system. I liked that I could mistype OhSeX
<diddledan> macOS is boring
<daftykins> i know someone with the nick 'Sierra' in another channel, so i suspect might irritationg highlighting will be going on
<daftykins> oops mighty irritating
<diddledan> dang
<diddledan> thereâs a dog or two shouting at themselves in the distance
<daftykins> arr arr arooooooo
<diddledan> thatâs an annoyance of summer when the windows are open
<diddledan> of course we prefer Gnome
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> âWindowsâ as a name for a GUI OS is pretty epic in terms of mindshare for what it does
<diddledan> âyouâre running Windows? OK open a windowâ¦"
<daftykins> "now i'm cold, how will this help?" - zmoylan-pi's clients of old :)
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> reminds of the tech support call about the PC that wouldnât connect to the internet. because there was a power cut
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> that raises too much confusion, are they staring at a blank screen shouting "INTERNET, GO!"
<diddledan> hey siri
<daftykins> this twitch streamer i know that lives in Brighton, he's forever shouting "shut up Siri" :D
<daftykins> "i'm not talking to you Siri, shh"
<zmoylan-pi> my boss did once spend a week training a windows pc to use a sound blaster and voice control software to do a lot of tasks by voice command...
<zmoylan-pi> of course if he tried to show people the extra bodies in the room ruined the acoustics
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> a likely excuse ;)
<zmoylan-pi> so he trained it with extra samples and added pillows to the room to alter the acoustics so it was like extra people...
<zmoylan-pi> he gave up when the software activated when a motorbike courier went past the building...
<diddledan> haha
<diddledan> hey, cortana. make me a sammich
<diddledan> hey, cortana. sudo make me a sammich.
<daftykins> "Sorry Dan, maybe try again with as Administrator?"
<daftykins> oops -with
<diddledan> I can't believe BSG started 13 years ago!
<diddledan> finished 7 years ago
<diddledan> I'm old.
<daftykins> oof, you doing a rewatch/watch?
#ubuntu-uk 2017-06-19
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightw0rk> morning peepz
<brobostigon> morning knightw0rk
<knightw0rk> hey brobostigon
<knightw0rk> how are you doing today
<brobostigon> suffering in the hot weather, my body doesnt cope with it very well, and you?
<SuperMatt> I've come to realise that the best things to wear in this weather are trousers and polo shirts. Any skin that is touching, not matter for how long, will make you sticky and horrible. The trusty polo neck also catches any sweat from the hair
<diplo> Morning all
<diplo> If it makes you feel any better, my office is has like corrugated iron side panels, so I got in at 8am this morning (no aircon ) and it's already 30+ inside the office :(
<brobostigon> :(
<zmoylan-pi> a nice pair of shorts and a gianormous fan...
<diplo> 2 fans on full blast, all windows open
<diplo> frozen bottles of water
<zmoylan-pi> it may be time to break out the cornettos....
<zmoylan-pi> and spare a thought for phoenix arizona were they're forecasting 48c? later in the week...
<Dave> yeah but they have air conditioning
<popey> yowzer
<zmoylan-pi> and what colour iphone do you want... white... the black ones burn my hands when i put them down in sunlight for 2-3 seconds...
<popey> i had an iphone a few years ago which powered itself down when in sunlight for being too hot
<SuperMatt> I still chortle at raspberry pis rebooting when you take a picture of them with a flash
<brobostigon> my nexus 4 has one that a couple of times before in very hot heat.
<brobostigon> even when just in my pocket or bag.
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: that's just the jesus phone </el-reg> trying to purify you!
<zmoylan-pi> which is why i live in ireland were purification by fire is extra difficult
<daftykins> ah, cleaners came this morning - no more builders dust around my place
<daftykins> cat will be retrieved this afternoon!
<zmoylan-pi> who will be confused by all the changes made to the place... and will have to poke around all their old haunts
<daftykins> oh absolutely
<daftykins> give them a thorough sniffing
<zmoylan-pi> and test the scratching of new paintwork
<daftykins> and i'm now on tablets for the dust and lath and plaster inhalation
<zmoylan-pi> a hazmat suit might be cheaper long term... :-P
<daftykins> i'd say i've seen the last of it, buuuuut yeah i keep getting lucky
<daftykins> sadly i can't make space in the office here from all the junk since the roof leak works is yet to begin up in the bedroom corner, so that's holding up normality from returning
<daftykins> plus some guy is sat IRCing instead of painting *cough*
<Seeker`> c'mon, own up, who left the oven on last night
 * Seeker` melts
 * daftykins whistles
 * brobostigon normally has a beer with his friends monday afternoon, aint gonna happen today, *melts*
<daftykins> ooh yes the beer would evaporate far too quickly
<brobostigon> and i would melt before i could even take a sip.
<daftykins> mmm, alcohol is the last thing on my mind when it's an effort to stay hydrated to begin with :)
<brobostigon> agreed, :)
<brobostigon> https://lifetime.justapply.uk/114183-customer_service_apprenticeship_-_bannatyne_health_club.html?s=ujm  isnt this illegal as in below minimum wage, 40 hours a week at Â£140 a week, thats makes it Â£3.50 an hour.
<zmoylan-pi> i think there are exceptions involved were apprenticeships are concerned... at least there seems to be here in ireland
<zmoylan-pi> https://www.taxguideforstudents.org.uk/volunteering-training/how-are-apprentices-taxed/what-is-the-national-minimum-wage-for-an-apprentice
<brobostigon> there seems to be here too, apprenticeship national minimum wage, national minimum wage only applies after one year.
<diplo> hey all
<diplo> We have a bash script that displays screen sessions and allows customers to select one of the running ones or create a new screen session
<diplo> Issues with this bash script and not displaying certain things
<diplo> Does anyone know of any bash / ncruses type front end to screen - spent ages trying to resolve the issues with this one then thought someone may know of something that already exists
#ubuntu-uk 2017-06-20
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> hello all
<brobostigon> afternoon
<MooDoo> :)
<popey> yo
<MooDoo> :)
<knightwise> hey guys
<knightwise> how you doing
<zmoylan-pi> sitting in the shade with windows open and fan humming away...
<Azelphur> well, I'm loosing the will to live
<Azelphur> Got a council tax reminder notice, even though I have a direct debit set up. Call the payments line listed on the letter, get a disconnected dialtone. Call the countil number directly, their call routing system is broken, no matter what you press, it just continually loops
<Azelphur> so I call the emergency number listed on their website, apologise for calling the emergency number and explain that their entire call center is down, no matter what you select it doesn't respond
<Azelphur> they inform me they are the emergency number for a completely different council and shouldn't be listed on my councils website \o/
<zmoylan-pi> my personal best trying to contact an organisation was something like 5 dials as they had 1) changed the phone system to add a digit to the start of the number, 2) moved, 3) reoganised their departments 4) changed our companies status from small to medium so needed to contact a different department. 5) profit
<knightwise> this is strange, i'm trying to reimage my dell xps13 and for some reasons none of the distros i tried (Ubuntu 16.04.2 and Mate) recognise the wifi card anymore
<knightwise> this used to work out of the box.
#ubuntu-uk 2017-06-21
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
#ubuntu-uk 2017-06-22
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> moaning
<brobostigon> morning
<zmoylan-pi> fi fi fo fum i smell the whiff of a daftykins...
<daftykins> :o
<zmoylan-pi> must resist... https://twitter.com/angryearthling/status/877994972720410624
<daftykins> dooo iiiiit!
<zmoylan-pi> stop foul demon!! or i'll cast you out with a glancing blow from my current nokia... :-P
<zmoylan-pi> ... or at least till i find a nicer colour...
<daftykins> snake is calling you
<zmoylan-pi> no apps in opera app store for nokia 3310 2017... not good
<zmoylan-pi> i was hoping since they included opera mini and whatsapp app that it would take more java apps...
<daftykins> ;)
<zmoylan-pi> coz i like my ereader (albite) and google maps with street view and a few others would be nice to blow peoples minds... :-)
<daftykins> *pow*
<daftykins> no street view here
<zmoylan-pi> especially when they see how much easier street view was to use on my old nokia 301 with the hardware buttons
<zmoylan-pi> *302
<zmoylan-pi> google banned from streetviewing the place or didn't bother... you could always do a sheepview like the ?faroes
<daftykins> they came over, the chavs slashed their tires, then i think the local gov told them not to release it
<daftykins> wow expansys.com won't touch consumers anymore
<zmoylan-pi> well they've been driving off customers for years...
<daftykins> oh?
<daftykins> was quite a good source for VAT free handsets shipped to the Channel rocks
<zmoylan-pi> _was_
<daftykins> ooh-err OpenVPN server security vulnerability
<zmoylan-pi> in last few years i saw more and more complaints about them on any news story that popped up about them
<daftykins> ah
<zmoylan-pi> that vpn thing must be why vpn just got a patch on my distro...
<daftykins> could be!
<daftykins> time for bed, toodles \o
<zmoylan-pi> o/
 * zmoylan-pi moseys off for a shower...
#ubuntu-uk 2017-06-23
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<Laney> put too many soily weeds dug out of the allotment in the garden waste bin this week
<Laney> they refused to take it :(
<zmoylan-pi> leave in front garden with sign, these are not marajuana plants... :-P
<brobostigon> lolz v.1000
<zmoylan-pi> human stupidity, make it work in your favour just for once :-)
<Laney> hmmmmmmm
<Laney> problem is they are the weeds of something really invasive
<Laney> best to treat them like nuclear waste
<Laney> erm, that sentence is weird english but you know what i mean
<zmoylan-pi> are bonfires allowed?
<Laney> if I had a fire bin I could use that
<Laney> or could transport it all back to the allotment ._.
<Laney> would then have to somehow get all the soil off them which is going to be a pain in the bum
<Laney> thinking I might remove half of them and see if the council takes it next time
<zmoylan-pi> when's bob a job? make some poor scout earn his quid :-D
<Laney> or ask a neighbour to borrow theirs and split it
<Laney> hmmm there's an idea
<zmoylan-pi> kids have to learn about exploitation at some point... :-)
<Laney> ah bob a job
<Laney> hour of poor quality lawn mowing for a quid
<Laney> memories
#ubuntu-uk 2017-06-24
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> a slightly cooler morning...
<brobostigon> thankfully, :)
<brobostigon> i repurposed my old kindle case into a flay swat.
<zmoylan-pi> been a bit hard on yourself or a typo? :-)
<brobostigon> lolz, yes. :)
<brobostigon> typo, fly swat.
 * penguin42 found a HP elitebook in a Cash Generator for #120 - nice dual core i7 laptop (low res LCD but other than that)
<daftykins> first gen i7?
<penguin42> daftykins: No!
<penguin42> daftykins: i7-3520M
<penguin42> daftykins: Radeon HD6xxx as well in it
<daftykins> ah ha ivybridge
<daftykins> AMD, boo :D
<penguin42> yep
<daftykins> pretty good score though, toss in an SSD perhaps and you're laughing
<penguin42> daftykins: Open drivers, can't argue
<daftykins> well that's ok if your needs are basically drawing a desktop and not much else
<daftykins> about all 'radeon' is good for ;D
<penguin42> (which actually all I do) but why? The HD6xxx is pretty decent isn't it ?
<daftykins> nah pretty much everything HD 7xxx and below is EOL now
<penguin42> true, but it's a lot better than the HD4xxx in my current machine!
<daftykins> amusingly that could be both an intel or AMD model
 * hamitron is stuck on Ubuntu 14.04 because of his old AMD GPUs
<penguin42> hamitron: Which one?
<hamitron> 5870
<hamitron> x2
<penguin42> that should be fine on newer
<penguin42> I'm running a 4250 on Fedora 26
<penguin42> (open driver)
<hamitron> it can run steam and games?
<penguin42> ah, not tried, I don't game
<hamitron> I've also read the open driver does not support crossfire
<hamitron> although tbh, 1 card is enough
<daftykins> dump 'em and get something that outperforms by 10x for 10th the power :)
<hamitron> I have better in other machines
 * hamitron is a hoarder and loves to keep old hardware going
<daftykins> heh :)
<daftykins> i get a bit attached to mine too
<hamitron> 1 problem I find... being a gamer, I tend to have windows on my best machine
<hamitron> then use linux on my "main" old rig
<daftykins> wisest idea really
<daftykins> what i don't get is when someone calls themselves a gamer but then cuts themselves out of the market by staying Linux only :>
<hamitron> aye
<hamitron> gotta use what is best for the task... for me that is linux for everything apart from gaming
<daftykins> :>
<hamitron> what I find frustrating, is when you have stats for game sales on linux looking poor, so that is used to justify not bothering publishing the newer games on linux
<hamitron> when my purchase was originally on windows, but I benefit from the linux binaries
<daftykins> bit of an egg and chicken sorta problem there ja
<penguin42> I think you mean a chicken and egg ....
<daftykins> egg and penguin! :>
<penguin42> true
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> do the AMDGPU drivers on older card like mine support opencl well?
<hamitron> I suppose I could live without games and harness the power of the gpu that way
<daftykins> you won't get amdgpu supporting anything EOL, so some 7xxx gen cards and below
<hamitron> even without amdgpu pro?
<daftykins> don't think much of anything is supported, but i haven't read any news for some time
<daftykins> http://phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=AMDGPU-VRAM-D-Games
<daftykins> o0
<daftykins> not even HDMI audio in yet XD what a laugh
<zmoylan-pi> huzzah \o/ :-P
<m0nkey_> Louis is trolling.
#ubuntu-uk 2017-06-25
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperEngineer> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<daftykins> a wild daubers bounces! :D
<zmoylan-pi> their volcano lair has spotty wifi coverage... you just can't get the henchmen these days...
<daftykins> keep getting hired by Dr. Evil!
<zmoylan-pi> even with improved work conditions... a comfy stylish black top with space for their blood group and emergency contact number on the label...
<zmoylan-pi> a lot cheaper now that steve jobs isn't hogging them all...
 * zmoylan-pi watches spacex launch... https://spaceflightnow.com/2017/06/24/iridium-next-mission-2-mission-status-center/
<daftykins> that was a nice landing :D
<daftykins> no hiding the barge side this time ;)
<zmoylan-pi> for sale one rocket slightly scorched... still has new rocket smell...
<awilkins> arrrrgh why why why the progressive attempts to ape OS X
<awilkins> Just upgraded to 16.10 through to 17.04
<awilkins> Touchpad scroll : now it's "Natural" or nothin;
<awilkins> Overrode my preference, no checkbox to put it back
<awilkins> It's not natural when you've been doing it the other way for ... well, as long as touchpads have existed (and you had to use hotzones for scrolling because multitouch didn't exist)
<zmoylan-pi> i hate touchpads almost as much as i hate guis
#ubuntu-uk 2018-06-18
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<mgdm> morning
<brobostigon> morning
<lopta> Mornin'
#ubuntu-uk 2018-06-19
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning
<Knight_Wrk> hey brobostigon
<Knight_Wrk> hey diplo
<brobostigon> hi Knight_Wrk
<diplo> Any of you guys Mac users here ?
<mgdm> o/
<mgdm> diplo: ^
<diplo> Just having an issue with Mac mail, smtp server settings keeps removing / changing port or hostname on its own
<diplo> There is a setting saying Automaticaly detect and maintain account settigns which we untick
<diplo> But it still changes
<mgdm> Hmm. What do they change to? Have you got any SRV records which are incorrect?
<diplo> From say 465 -> 25
<diplo> So I take it that it needs autodiscover records to work, we've never used them... always manually enter ( only a very small company )
<diplo> But I did suggest that as what could be the problem
<mgdm> I'm not sure if you provide your email yourselves or use someone else, but it wouldn't hurt to check those and maybe update them if you can
<mgdm> something like `dig _submission._tcp.example.org` might tell you what it thinks they are?
<diplo> We provide mail ourself, so we just normally enter mail.domain.tld - ssl with 993/465 but since a recent update ( this has been working for 5 years ) the mac keeps changing just the SMTP details
<diplo> ok, will take a look ta
<diplo> All the references I find for autodiscover etc are for use with 365 which was why I guessed it wasn't used by default, may add some records to try it
<mgdm> 365 use the same mechanism as the RFC, you can add your own if you like, it's described here https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-daboo-srv-email-05.html#rfc.section.3.1
<diplo> OK, well I've added the record, wait for it to propogate and see if that makes a difference
<mgdm> cool
<mgdm> hope it helps :-)
<diplo> Thanks, should have just tried it earlier, will add imap as well even though it already works :)
<daftykins> sounds like it's trying to change from SSL to plain?
<diplo> Yeah, but not sure why
<daftykins> one of the many reasons i don't like macs, so little feedback in UIs to tell you what's going on.
<diplo> Yup exactly, apparently there is a log, but it shows nothing :)
<daftykins> what's changed about the one today? is it a newer OS than the usual ones?
<zmoylan-pi> maybe you're logging it wrong? :-p
<diplo> Only our boss has a mac, last week it just started changing SMTP details, be it hostname or ports
<diplo> Waiting to hear back from bosses, they went on a lunch date, so that can be anywhere from an hour to three
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> bah i had an amazing deal desktop system from the Dell Outlet but they've cancelled it due to 'technical reasons'
<zmoylan-pi> an absent boss is a boos that doesn't get in your way as smuch
<diplo> I'mm not in their office anyway, about 200 miles away
<diplo> But always the one who has to fix stuff :/
 * zmoylan-pi loans diplo my long handled hammer... :-)
<diplo> heheh
<daftykins> can always toss on Thunderbird for mac i suppose, mozilla are meant to have finally put a dev on it again
<diplo> Just installing the tmnations snap on my work PC \o/ hope it runs, graphics are rubbish on here
<daftykins> though i find it so nasty to extract data from that i regret ever putting it in for anyone
<zmoylan-pi> some day it will do email! :-P
<diplo> My boss was doing that just before I left to prove it was the mac mail software and not the server
<diplo> Albeit, 17 other members of staff aren't affected
<daftykins> but they're non-mac?
<daftykins> oh i get what you mean
<diplo> heh yep, sorry,trying to multi task and failing
<daftykins> nah i missed the obvious train of thought
<diplo> It appears the autodiscover did the trick, apparently been working since lunchtime
<diplo> Which is when I amended it
<daftykins> neat, i know you need that for MS Outlook on mac, but didn't think it was required for the Mail app on standard setups too o0
<diplo> You didn't
<diplo> Stopped working last week
<zmoylan-pi> for any b5 fans knocking about... https://i.imgur.com/IE2uXow.gifv
#ubuntu-uk 2018-06-20
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<marshmn> so, snaps... I understand the idea and it makes a lot of sense... but boy oh boy can they end up with ugly UI (the dialogs etc)
#ubuntu-uk 2018-06-21
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<Laney> quiet in here!
 * brobostigon looks around, yep, pretty quiet.
<diplo> Always quiet :)
<diplo> They're all in telegram now
<Laney> psssssssshhhhhhhhhh
<Azelphur> This fancy new battery optimisation stuff in 4.17.2 is awesome, I bought myself an XPS 13 9360R which arrived yesterday. Decided to torture test the battery, left it running overnight playing video with the display on max brightness, 6h30m later it's still going strong with 39% remaining
<Laney> oh god I need more battery
<Laney> my older XPS 13 sux
<Laney> I'll get a low battery warning after like 2.5 hours
<Laney> hidpi screen though, had to expect it to be not great
<brobostigon> similarly i think my laitude only has something like 50 odd percent battery capacity.
<brobostigon> latitude*
<diplo> My HP lasts 20mins :)
<brobostigon> when i moved 5 weeks ago, i digged out my old psion series 5 as my portable computing device, :)
<diplo> One of my kids turned on one of my old bricks the other day, still had battery in it.. booted up!
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> wih there was better documentation though for opl, the programming language for it.
<brobostigon> wish*
<diddledan> yikes, brobostigon , how _old_ was that brick?!
<diddledan> psion.. 90s?
<brobostigon> diddledan: 98, yes.
<diddledan> I had a friend who owned a psion. I didn't understand what he got out of it.. glorified calculator
<zmoylan-pi> it's a psion, the rolls royce of the pda world... of course it was ok
<brobostigon> :D
<zmoylan-pi> i used a psion as my main home pc for years...
<brobostigon> and it still works beautifully.
<zmoylan-pi> /upgrading/ to a pc was such a let down :-)
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: but WIMP!
<zmoylan-pi> but i don't want to even know if anyone ever started ripping cds to mp3 on a psion.... :-P
<diddledan> eep
<diddledan> did they have enough storage for more than one mp3?
<zmoylan-pi> when i swapped to pc it took my amd-k6-2 with 32mb of ram running win95b 8 hours to rip one cd...
<zmoylan-pi> sure you could put the ibm microdrive 340mb of minature hard drive in cf slot...
<zmoylan-pi> an actual hard drive in cf card format...
<zmoylan-pi> i don't think there's a piece of hardware half as cool as that right now... :-)
<daftykins> brobostigon: aww my folks found my psion 3c, but on flapping it open the hinges snapped :( still haven't cleaned up the rubber that's gone all sticky and unpleasant, too
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqW5ynwFxas
<zmoylan-pi> there's a place still going that fixes them...
<daftykins> also, thinking they'd never find it again, i think i binned my floppies of PsiWin - so now i have a psion and the serial sync cable but no software
<zmoylan-pi> or selling them... so so tempted...
<daftykins> heh i wouldn't spend a single penny on that old thing though really
<brobostigon> daftykins: oh well, :(
<zmoylan-pi> now if it had of been a psion ii you could have driven a land rover over it and it would still be fine... :-0
<zmoylan-pi> * :-)
<diddledan> surely you're confusing it with a nokia?
<daftykins> all zmoylan-pi's stories are starting to run together ;)
<zmoylan-pi> no no, i think every psion ii user i knew back then had run over their psion with a land rover... sometimes they had to borrow the psion AND the land rover to do it...
<zmoylan-pi> they'd be super careful until they put the psion on the roof of the land rover to open the door and then forget it... and one more psion run over by a land rover story...
<daftykins> xD
<zmoylan-pi> one psion was run over at least 3 times...
<zmoylan-pi> 'why are their tyre tracks on the case'?
<daftykins> and now you just have to look at glass built 'phones for them to crack
<zmoylan-pi> accidently bounced my nokia asha 302 of tiled floor over the weekend... a bad one. case opened and battery fell out
<daftykins> this is pretty fun, with help from my ol' volunteer pals from #ubuntu i wrote a BASH script which takes a DVD ISO, ignores all the menu and trailer rubbish, spitting out a matrosk container (.mkv) with just the video, english audio, subtitles and chapter markers
<daftykins> lst night i kicked it off against a clients collection of over 900 of the things :O
<daftykins> as an example, it reduced 12 James Bond films from 95GB to 55GB
<zmoylan-pi> i aimed for ripping dvds to arounf 300mb each.  they look great on mobile screens
<zmoylan-pi> next time i go to hospital my 128mb usb drive has a tonne of movies to watch
<daftykins> this is keeping them 1:1 since storage doesn't really matter, very fun task though
<zmoylan-pi> took me about 18months to rip my dvd collection on my mac mini. 1-2 per day... more on the weekend. ruined the mac mini optical drive mind
<daftykins> at his place we have a few PCs in bedrooms and TV areas etc for discless library playback from Kodi
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> we hired a kid to do it for cheap
<daftykins> also redid his music collection to FLAC at the same time, now i handle the new stuff
<zmoylan-pi> and hopefully backed up off site so you don't have to do it again if asteroid hits the house?
<daftykins> gotta rip to FLAC, transfer to the 3 different homes he has to keep them all up to date, oy
<zmoylan-pi> that's 1 busy pigeon... :-D
<daftykins> yep! got a copy of the whole library on a NAS in the London pad now, 2 x 10TB disks in there
<daftykins> mmm we still haven't trained it to plug it in at the other end though
<zmoylan-pi> do you get a call out everytime they release a new bond movie? :-)
<zmoylan-pi> you'll need a tux for onsite calls :-P
<zmoylan-pi> an not a onsie penguin suit...
<daftykins> the man drives me insane for having a super expensive AV setup in 3 homes, yet buying standard DVDs still >_<
<daftykins> i asked if he wanted to borrow my Dad's VHS collection to go further still xD
<zmoylan-pi> dvd is good enough, especially if the movies you want are made pre blu ray
<daftykins> mmm not on a 4K TV
<zmoylan-pi> getting a film made in 40s or 50s on blu ray won't add much to image
<daftykins> quite amusing opening a DVD in a player on a PC connected to a 4K TV, it looks like a thumbnail at 1:1
<zmoylan-pi> and if he's rich enough to afford it his eyesight might no longer be good enough to appreciate it :-)
<daftykins> whilst i agree with that, even getting a 720p source for older stuff will scale nicer
<zmoylan-pi> he needs 8k :-D
<daftykins> yeah i did notice he doesn't put his specs on to watch so no wonder he couldn't notice the difference with a bluray
<daftykins> but it's also about the audio of course, the newer fancier formats that he's spent to be able to make use of... then doesn't
<zmoylan-pi> a gamer i know was asking if he should upgrade to 4k cable tv. he wears glasses like coke bottles.... i told him to watch it in shop before buying as his eyesight was so bad it would be wasted on him
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> the resolution component is rubbish, but HDR is ace - super bright vibrant colours
<zmoylan-pi> i watch my movies on tiny screens. as long as i can read the sub titles on seven samurai it's good enough...
<diddledan> a properly re-scanned film (i.e. celluloid) looks amazing in high def compared to dvd
<daftykins> indeed
<zmoylan-pi> wait till you're older and your eyesight is knackered :-)
<daftykins> sadly on some levels i'm already there due to a pesky condition that causes my eyelids to swell up with the normal eye lubricating fluid
<daftykins> the ducts block resulting in the above - and making my vision pretty sub-par
<zmoylan-pi> switch to nvidia... the tears of anguish will help... :-P
<daftykins> i always use nvidia \o/ whilst they may do some evil things at times, since i don't use desktop Linux everything is fine for me :>
<knightw0rk> heya
<daftykins> and i think even if i did, i wouldn't get my underwear in a twist over silly things like wanting to use Wayland before it even reaches feature parity with X.org
<daftykins> knightw0rk: hey \o all well?
<zmoylan-pi> seems nvidia has a bit of glut atm with crypto currency tanking a little
<knightw0rk> hey daftykins yeah , i'm ok :) home working today so that always nice
<daftykins> :D nice
<daftykins> same here, although that's the norm with self employment
<zmoylan-pi> so... who's computing commando? :-P
<daftykins> i've a feeling my cat didn't get dressed this morning
<daftykins> i'm on Dell live chat right now trying to find out why my 'Outlet' orders keep failing :(
<zmoylan-pi> and where do you live again?
<daftykins> totally not Terrorism central
<zmoylan-pi> and how many ways have they tried to deny that their deliveries are handled by vampires who can't cross water?
<diddledan> bastids
<daftykins> hehe, sadly it doesn't even get that far
<daftykins> i just never see an order confirmation
<daftykins> i lost out on 1, possibly 2 really good spec systems for cheap already :(
<diddledan> bah
<diddledan> that's annoying
<zmoylan-pi> check your family for a relative on mainland who can reship it?
<daftykins> i'd pay the VAT then, unthinkable
<zmoylan-pi> fair point...
<daftykins> what with my tax dodging location the first was a 7th gen i5 with 8GB RAM and 250GB SSD for Â£280 :O
<zmoylan-pi> how much would vat be on that?
<diddledan> wow
<diddledan> 40Â£ vat
<diddledan> no 56
<zmoylan-pi> still a bargin
<diddledan> 20%
<daftykins> well i also had a 10% voucher too :>
<zmoylan-pi> you had a coupon and they stopped you?! sods!
<daftykins> i know! thankfully i moaned quick enough that i'll be able to get the 10% again on a next order
<daftykins> hmm they think my account is 'on hold' but don't know why, how irritating
<zmoylan-pi> computer says no...
<zmoylan-pi> don't you just love algorithms...
<knightw0rk> zmoylan-pi: computing commando ? :) hahahaha
 * diddledan removes his frillies
<daftykins> put it away, man! D:
<knightw0rk> Listening to KEBU on youtube , great synth composer/artist
<knightw0rk> very 80's feel , ideal for hacking away at a keyboard in the meantime
<marshmn> happy Steam sale day/Steam's website not coping with load day
<daftykins> marshmn: haha so it is!
<marshmn> a chance to buy all those games on your wishlist at cut down prices... and then never get around to actually playing them
<marshmn> then wait for the next Steam sale and buy some more
<marshmn> repeat as required
<daftykins> thankfully i have seen others turn Steam into a collectathon, so reigned myself in from repeating the same - but even those games i have bought i barely touch xD
<daftykins> in fact i seem to buy PC titles but then ignore them and play the free bi-monthly titles on the xbox one instead
<daftykins> have been playing a crossplay title between PC and xbox with a couple of mates, both local and England based though
<daftykins> once a week tops that is
#ubuntu-uk 2018-06-22
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> greetings carbon based lifeforms
<brobostigon> :)
<diplo> Moaning all!
<brobostigon> morning
<diddledan> kill all humans
 * zmoylan-pi signs up to diddledan's newsletter
<diplo> I've been told I'm not human, so feel safe!
 * zmoylan-pi examines diplo and reaches an executive decision 'close enough, what the hell' :-P
<diplo> hah
 * diddledan fondles zmoylan-pi 
<diddledan> wait, that's not what we mean when we say "examine"?
<diplo> diddledan: I run solus on my work machine, but want to play with snaps, should I beable to build ?
<diplo> Sure I've had errors saying I can't on it before
<diddledan> to build on a non-ubuntu or an ubuntu that isn't 16.04 (ideally always) you should use LXD
<diplo> OK, will see if I can get that running on here
<diplo> Thanks
<diplo> I use LXC on one of my servers, using it before LXD and never moved over
<diplo> Not available on it
<diplo> only lxc
<diplo> Wonder what ikey did
<diddledan> ikey created his own runtime called `solus-runtime-gaming` when he built his steam snap
<diplo> yeah but he would have built on Solus directly though ?
<diddledan> I expect so, yes
<diplo> Not sure I have the inclination to do to much work, may just set up a ubuntu VM :)
<daftykins> someone came in #kodi running solus the other day, they gave up after a few hours trying to build the PVR packages since it didn't have the package for them natively
<daftykins> sometimes i think folk let their distro of choice get in the way of just getting things going :)
<diplo> Definitely, not that fussed about doing snaps, I prefer Solus tbh over ubuntu for packages etc but
<diddledan> .. says the person running winders
<diplo> But I'd like to develop natively though
<daftykins> i'm typing to you from one of my main Loonix servers though :P
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> desktop Linux is lol
<diddledan> lol haha, or lol weird?
<daftykins> well, laughable :P
<daftykins> now here's something that's a break from the norm, my chef mate from the hotel next door has given me this big box of manuals for this fancy computerised oven he has in the newly refurbished bar - and sorta asked if i could cast an eye over it to understand some functions more
<daftykins> https://www.rational-online.com/en_gb/SelfCookingCenter%C2%AE/SelfCookingCenter%C2%AE/
<daftykins> these things can go YUGE
<diddledan> I wonder if there's such a thing as a "non-deterministic lossless compression"? i.e. when extracted all the data is correct and identical to the pre-compression copy, but two runs of the same compression may not result in identical compressed files
<mgdm> you could randomise the compression level option to gzip, etc :P
<diddledan> that uses different algorithms tho
<diddledan> or variants
<diddledan> haha. in telegram: https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/NBVztiPG/image.png
<diddledan> aah, it's from here: http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~ballard/bofh/bofhserver.pl
 * zmoylan-pi awaits the genius who plugs the ups into itself to ring...
<diddledan> oh dear: https://www.macrumors.com/2018/06/22/bethesda-westworld-fallout-shelter-lawsuit/
<diddledan> hmm: https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/xuuqkKTD/image.png
<diddledan> to click or not to click
<zmoylan-pi> have you got a 10foot mouse? :-P
<zmoylan-pi> the famed capybara... :-)
<diddledan> "good news everybody, I improved out site's latency by 10x!" https://twitter.com/esten/status/1010286558291750912
<daftykins> welp my LG Nexus 5x just began bootlooping, must've been jealous of my ice cream... as i took a pic of one out and about, next thing i know it was off and now won't start
<diddledan> :-(
<diddledan> booo!
<daftykins> *but* it has a 2 year warranty since LG admitted the fault across many models \o/
<daftykins> i already logged a ticket to get a repair arranged :D
<diddledan> shame that warranty doesn't cover putting mine through the wash
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> probably have those water stickers inside so they'd point and scream at you on opening it up
#ubuntu-uk 2018-06-23
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> salutations o/
<brobostigon> morning o/
#ubuntu-uk 2018-06-24
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
