#ubuntu-motu 2005-09-26
<koke> Nafallo: I don't even find it in packages.d.o
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> bad :-P
<tseng> doko:   rrdtool: Depends: librrd2 but it is not going to be installed
<tseng> doko:   librrd2: Depends: ttf-dejavu but it is not installable
<doko> tseng: it's beeing handled -> see main inclusion queue
<tseng> doko: rock on, thanks.
* ajmitch stabs internet explorer for good measure
<koke> ajmitch another one from koke ;)
<ajmitch> :)
<koke> when I try to recover my pass on REVU I get "None"
<koke> python error, I guess
<koke> any idea on that?
<koke> siretart: around?
<bddebian> Do we still not have the myth plugin stuff?
<tseng> bddebian: compile it with gcc 3.4 from mdz repo
<tseng> bddebian: and i bet it will work fine
<bddebian> tseng: Well fix em man :-)
<tseng> bddebian: that would be like work.
<tseng> bddebian: ajmitch has a guy that says he is working on it
<bddebian> Oh good, then I won't :-)
* tritium has not laughed so hard in some time: http://ubuntulinux.nl/quotes?minid=3
<lathiat> hahaha
<bddebian> hehehe
<bmonty_laptop> doh, did I miss the meeting?
<bddebian> Yep :-(
<bmonty_laptop> :(
<bddebian> Egads, do we still have gcc3.3?
<bmonty_laptop> why not?
<lathiat> gcc-3.4 we have
<lathiat> i think 3.3 is there too
<bddebian> Hmm, ghc-cvs build-deps and deps on gcc-3.3
<bddebian> python (>= 1.5)??  I'd have to say ghc-cvs is a little old?? :-)
<bmonty_laptop> can I get the latest released source from upstream to fix a package with unmetdeps?
<bddebian> How do I fix:  "dpkg-deb: control directory has bad permissions..." ??
<bddebian> bmonty_laptop: Upstream, upstream or Debian upstream? :-)
<bmonty_laptop> upstream upstream
<bmonty_laptop> :)
<crimsun> if that's the only way to fix it, and it doesn't break anything, I don't see why not
* bddebian either
<LaserJock> bddebian: did you see the mozilla-locale stuff I updated?
<bddebian> LaserJock: Aye, thx
<LaserJock> is that ok?
<bddebian> Yep
<LaserJock> It looked like  mozilla-locale-zh-tw would be easy to fix and I don't think the Debian packages will be updated anytime soon so would it be good to make an ubuntu package?
<bddebian> ajmitch: You around?
<bddebian> LaserJock: It probably can't hurt
<ajmitch> nope
<bddebian> ajmitch: Aren't you the zope-meister?
* Tonio- is away: Away at the moment
* Tonio- is back.
<bddebian> Fuck, I give up, I'm going back to video games and pr0n :-)
<ajmitch> I do some zope..
<lathiat> you do dope?
<bddebian> Well I thought I "fixed" zope-popyda but it doesn't install.  failed deps on python2.4-popy
<bmonty_laptop> gee....you couldn't see that one coming
<ajmitch> bddebian: and..? :)
<ajmitch> you want me to look at it instead?
<bddebian> You gonna fix python2.4-popy? :-)
<ajmitch> maybe
<bddebian> Well then I will upload zope-popyda ;-P
<ajmitch> if you want to take the blame
* Burgundavia hugs ajmitch for gobby
<bddebian> ajmitch: Blame?
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: it got through NEW?
<Burgundavia> ajmitch, not yet
<Burgundavia> ajmitch, but it is there, which is good
<ajmitch> ok
<Burgundavia> ajmitch, ok, building now by the looks of it
<ajmitch> so it got accepted, so it's through NEW
<ajmitch> oh goody, he synced my other stuff :)
<bmonty_laptop> hey, I think 2423 should get rejected
<bddebian> ajmitch: Take the blame for what??
<ajmitch> bddebian: for zope-popyda
<bddebian> What blame?
<ajmitch> whatever is coming for you :)
<LaserJock> where do you guys go to find out what stuff is being synced or uploaded?
<crimsun> breezy-changes
<bmonty_laptop> the breezy-changes mailing list
<LaserJock> ok, cool
<bddebian> ajmitch: Do you enjoy talking in circles? :-)
<ajmitch> yes
<bddebian> bmonty_laptop: I agree reject or close 2423.  It works for me too
<ajmitch> you said you thought you fixed it, but it wasn't really fixed
<ajmitch> bddebian: the other thing is that zope products need python 2.3
<bddebian> Well I'm not going to "upload" it until it does work.  But I would need python2.x-popy anyhow
<bmonty_laptop> I'd like to know why gcrontab segfaults on his system, but without debug symbols his stacktrace is useless
* ajmitch woudl vote to morgue zope-popyda
<tritium> good night
<bddebian> Well it builds and installs now.  Not that I know that it "works"
<ajmitch> it won't
<ajmitch> or at least it won't work well
<bddebian> *sigh*
<ajmitch> it's been removed from debian
<ajmitch> it was meant for python 2.1, and zope 2.6
<bmonty_laptop> bddebian: do you have a crontab file your user on the box you tested gcrontab with?
<bddebian> bmonty: No
<bddebian> ajmitch: OK, what about zope-cmfpgforum?  Same deal?
<ajmitch> probably
<ajmitch> it's been sitting broken for > 6 months
* ajmitch hasn't checked the zope team lists for it though
<bddebian> Hey, our bug numbers are going up not down.. :-(
<bmonty_laptop> that is what always happens
<ajmitch> bddebian: I just closed 2
<bddebian> ajmitch: Good man :-)
<bmonty_laptop> can we close a bug as unreproducable?
<marcin_ant> hi guys
<marcin_ant> I got a pretty strange problem
<marcin_ant> 1. my CPU is Athlon
<bddebian> That's strange ;-)
<Burgundavia> marcin_ant, #ubuntu for support
<marcin_ant> 2. and the strange thing is that when I want to build some package
<marcin_ant> then I get i486-linux-gnu
<ajmitch> that's perfectly normal
<bddebian> What would you expect to get?
<marcin_ant> as DEB_HOST_GNU_TYPE (dpkg-architecture)
<marcin_ant> ajmitch, well i386? i686? k7 ? but definetly not i486....
<marcin_ant> ajmitch, sorry it was for bddebian
<marcin_ant> bddebian, I would expect to get i386 or i686 but not i486...
<ajmitch> I would expect to get i486
<marcin_ant> ajmitch, why?
<ajmitch> because that's the architecture that things are built for
<ajmitch> i386 just didn't have a couple of things needed
<marcin_ant> ajmitch, ok but afaik k7 cpu is not related with i486 at all
<ajmitch> yes it is
<ajmitch> it's i486 compatible, so packages are built for that arch
<marcin_ant> ajmitch, on almost every distro you get things compiled for i386 for compatibility or i586 like in mandrake or i686 on most modern distros
<marcin_ant> ajmitch, so k7 packages are compiled for i486?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> can you imagine the amount of diskspace required if each package was compiled for i486, 586, i686, P3/P4, K7, etc
<marcin_ant> ajmitch, hmm I didn'
<marcin_ant> t
<marcin_ant> know about it
<Amaranth> ajmitch: 8 or so times what they use now?
<ajmitch> there was a conscious decision not to build for i386 for compatibility
<ajmitch> Amaranth: probably more, given other variants :)
<marcin_ant> ajmitch, sure but there are packages that are compiled for k7 (in fact kernel only)
<ajmitch> sure
<ajmitch> but they're the exception
<ajmitch> packages can have autodetecting code themselves if they need it
<marcin_ant> ajmitch, anyway if I rebuild packages on my machine I could expect some optimalization for my cpu
<marcin_ant> ajmitch, and I thought that athlon is more i686 compatible.. but if it is i486 then ok
<ajmitch> well the instruction ordering, etc is done for a modern cpu
<hypatia> ajmitch: I'm sorry to nag... but (of course there's a but) what's the status of python-nevow?
<Amaranth> yeah, ubuntu packages are built to work on an older CPU but tuned to run better on modern CPUs
<ajmitch> hypatia: elmo didn't reply with details of my key, but I'll try & upload again :)
<ajmitch> marcin_ant: it's a question that comes up quite often :)
<marcin_ant> Burgundavia, btw don't send ppl away - please listen the question first ;)
<marcin_ant> ajmitch, about optimalization?
<hypatia> ajmitch: how annoying for you :(
<ajmitch> marcin_ant: yes
<ajmitch> hypatia: not really
<ajmitch> hypatia: I'll put it on my todo list for things to look at after work tonight
<marcin_ant> ajmitch, propably questions from gentoo users ;) they love it
<marcin_ant> ajmitch, in fact all these cpu/arch/dpkg things are pretty weird
<ajmitch> like why we don't compile everything with -O9 -fultra-fast, etc?
<marcin_ant> ajmitch, for example I build package with libraries compiled to i486 subdir but packages are *i386.deb
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> hysterical raisins
<marcin_ant> ajmitch, pretty weird but I'm too tired to talk about it today
<ajmitch> sure, and I'm not the best person to answer
<marcin_ant> ajmitch, it's 5am here and I need to go to bed
<marcin_ant> ajmitch, night
<ajmitch> night
<bddebian> Heh, if I change LIBS="-L$x_libraries" to LIBS="$LIBS", prokyon3 builds fine.  WTF?
<bddebian> Gnight folks
<hub__> hi
<hub__> launchpad sent me a message to validate my GPG jey
<hub__> key
<hub__> I can't decrypt it :-(
<siretart> morning
<dholbach> brb
<hub__> hi
<dholbach> good morning hub__ :)
<crimsun> boy am I glad there's a copy of udev ubuntu12 in /var/cache/apt/archives/
<mvo> hi all! if someone has a bit of time, it would be cool if he would have a look at efax-gtk. we have 3.0.2, debian 3.0.4. I got a mail asking if we would consider updating to 3.0.4. it would be nice if someone could have a look.
<\sh> mvo: hmmm...i can't test it...
<sivang> morning all
<\sh> or is it only a frontend to some fax backend?
<\sh> btw...heise.de reports about skubuntu and edubuntu
<\sh> http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/64089
<mvo> \sh: AFAIK it's only a frontend for efax
<\sh> mvo: ok..I'll test the compileness ,-)
<mvo> \sh: looking over the changelog would be nice as well :) but I guess universe is not quite that deeply frozen yet?
<shawarma> \sh: It turns out vpnc isn't a broken as it seemed... I just fixed the ref to vpnc-script. All the other weird errors kind of went away.
<\sh> mvo: no...but u fixed some g++-4 issues in 3.0.2 so I think it should be fixed..if not..I will fix it
<\sh> shawarma: can u provide me the patches as debdiff?
<\sh> shawarma: so i can fix it directly in the package
<dholbach> i take the dog out... bbl
<shawarma> \sh: Er... I don't know. How do I do that?
<\sh> shawarma: apt-get source vpnc
<\sh> and incorporate the changes
<\sh> add your changes to debian/changelog
<shawarma> Done
<shawarma> And then?
<ivoks> hello
<shawarma> \sh: right, I've made a debdiff of it... Should I mail it to you?
<shawarma> hi, ivoks.
<\sh> shawarma: yeah...sh@sourcecode.de
<shawarma> Ok.. I'm curious... Why is that easier than going through revu?
<shawarma> I was under the impression that the people with upload privileges could just click a button i revu and magic would happen..
<\sh> shawarma: not now :) it will be integrated in the future ;) ,-)
<siretart> shawarma: revu should be an improvement to putting links to your packages on the wiki
<\sh> but I would like to do it manually...cause I'm responsible when I sign other packages
<shawarma> \sh: Ok. The thing is that I've already uploaded it to REVU... Can you remove it from there?
<\sh> shawarma: oh...the package? i will grab it from there...np
<siretart> shawarma: make a comment under your upload, every revu admin can nuke uploads then
<siretart> morning, sh, btw ;)
<\sh> hey siretart :)
<\sh> but first I need a cup of coffee and a smoke ;)
<\sh> brb
<siretart> coffee, good idea, brb ;)
<\sh> back
<hub__> good idea
<\sh> mvo: ok with u to sync from debian (efax-gtk) and overwrite the ubuntu changes? (it's only your g++-4 patch, but this went upstream)
<hub__> but I should get sleep first
<mvo> \sh: sure, if 3.0.4 looks good
<\sh> install tests are running now ;)
<hub__> dholbach: you run amd64, don't you?
<\sh> looks ok
<\sh> but I can't test it with efax.
<\sh> i'll request a sync
<\sh> shawarma: can u make dpatches from your changes and put them in debian/patches? please adjust as well 00list in debian/patches thx :)
<shawarma> \sh: What's the point of the 00list file?
<shawarma> \sh: It should just contain the filename of my patch, right?
<\sh> shawarma: yes :)
<\sh> please use dpatch-edit-patch to get the other patches as well inside your change...dpatch-edit-patch <your patch name> <last-dpatch-filename-to-apply>
<shawarma> Hmm.... I didn't add the last-dpatch-filename-to-apply argument, but it looks ok..
<shawarma> I've uploaded it to revu. I'm behind this annoying proxy, so it's kind of hard for me to send e-mail, but ftp is ok.
<dholbach> hub__: yes, i do, but i have a problem with that box atm - do you want me to check something?
<hub__> dholbach: just wondering if I was not mistaken with the error you got with my package :-/
<dholbach> ah, hm :/
<\sh> shawarma: ok...grabbing it :)
<shawarma> \sh: What's the point of that last argument to dpatch-edit-patch?
<hub__> if only I had an amd64
<dholbach> hub__: you may want to talk to Mithrandir
<hub__> why does he have?
<\sh> shawarma: it takes the last patch which should be applied in the row..
<shawarma> \sh: And why wouldn't that always be the last one?
<\sh> shawarma: honestly..I was thinking all the time, that dpatch-edit-patch is using 00list..to get the patch queue
<\sh> shawarma: but I don't know..I dislike dpatch
<shawarma> ....then why did you tell me to use it?
<\sh> shawarma: because I used it all the time ;)
<\sh> shawarma: or better to say...if u want to integrate a patch in bettwen the start and the end..u can use this ;)
<\sh> shawarma: u r whitelisted for  katie and -changes?
<shawarma> \sh: I have no idea what that means.
<shawarma> \sh: Who or what is katie?
<dholbach> the buildd
<dholbach> it will send you a receipt mail
<shawarma> I see.. and being whitelisted for katie and -changes mean to be able to throw stuff at buildd and have it build stuff for me?
<\sh> shawarma: uploaded :)
<\sh> shawarma: no..but u see the katie mails that the source is accepted
<\sh> and on -changes we can read your name
<\sh> well...it's accepted and u r not whitelisted..please send a mail with your email address from changelog files please check wiki.ubuntu.com/Uploads how to be whitelisted
<hub__> dholbach: ok
<hub__> off to bed now
<dholbach> hub__: good night
<\sh> siretart: IOError: [Errno 13]  Permission denied: '/srv/revu1/removals.txt'
<\sh> siretart: when I want to nuke ;)
<shawarma> \sh: I can't add myself to the whitelist.. I get an error from Ubuntus mail server. Who should i bug about this?
<\sh> shawarma: no..u have to send it to upload or uploads@ubuntulinux.org...
<shawarma> \sh: That's what I did.
<\sh> shawarma: ping elmo and ask him what happened..he is the whitelist manager :)
<shawarma> \sh: The address is apparantly rewritten to archive@durville.ubuntu.com which in turn is unknown.
<shawarma> \sh: Great. Thanks.
<siretart> \sh: damn. permission problems..
<siretart> -rw-r--rw-  1 siretart www-data     426 Sep 17 06:54 removals.txt
<siretart> wtf? somethings weird going on..
<\sh> siretart: hmmm
<\sh> who changed this
<siretart> fixed
<\sh> siretart: thx :)
<shawarma> \sh: Do you happen to know where elmo is? Geographically, that is.. If he's in the US there's not much point in trying to reach him now.
<Nafallo> UK, London
<shawarma> Nafallo: Hehe.. His away message says "sleep".. It's 10:54 in London right now. :-D
<Nafallo> I believe he's sleep-pattern have crashed then ;-)
<ogra> shawarma, he is usually up until 3 or 4 am
<shawarma> ogra: Oh, that explains.
<Nafallo> s/he\'s/his/
<Tonio-> hi everyone
<ivoks> hi
<\sh> back from lunch pause
<ajmitch> evening all
<ivoks> hi
<ivoks> i just did fresh install
<ivoks> and... usb doesn't work, mouse doesn't work... hm...
<Treenaks> ivoks: udev is b0rken
<ivoks> ah, ok
<Treenaks> let's do some fingerpointing ;)
* Nafallo added that udev is broken to #ubuntu.se's topic ;-)
<\sh> hmm...wasn't there a new upload?
<Nafallo> \sh: ubuntu13 is broken :-)
<ajmitch> \sh: I've booked my UBZ flights ;)
<Treenaks> ajmitch: cool :)
<Nafallo> ... and that was the "new" upload :-)
<Nafallo> or newest
<\sh> oh...
<\sh> hm...will see it this evening when I reboot my laptop ;)
* ivoks will not be going to UBZ :(
* ajmitch already has issues - indeterminate as to which package is causing X to go wonky on lid close
<Treenaks> ivoks: :(
<ajmitch> ivoks: that's a shame
<Treenaks> I found a really cheap hostel :)
<Treenaks> see foodfight.org/log :)
<ajmitch> even cheaper than the one we know about already?
<ajmitch> ah, same one
<Treenaks> ajmitch: yeah, same one probably
<ivoks> yeah, well... money is problem
<Treenaks> ivoks: where are you from then?
<ivoks> Treenaks: croatia
<Treenaks> ivoks: hmm
<ivoks> but i have to pay universty next year
<ivoks> 1000euros
<Treenaks> ivoks: hmm... too bad :(
<ivoks> yeah, i know :(
<ivoks> i hope i will join you guys on 6.04
<Treenaks> ivoks: I missed UDU because I couldn't get the time off :(
<Treenaks> ivoks: so not everything's lost
<ivoks> i don't think it's lost, just won't be joining you in conversations
<\sh> ajmitch: rock man :)
<ajmitch> ivoks: why not? we have irc :)
<ivoks> ajmitch: sure on irc :)
<Treenaks> ajmitch: you think there will be bandwidth?!
<ajmitch> Treenaks: more than at UDU, I bet
<Treenaks> ajmitch: UDU had 0 ? :)
<ajmitch> something approximating 0 ;)
<ajmitch> hmm
<ajmitch> my DSL bandwidth monitoring at my ISP has only been functional 4 days this month ;)
* ajmitch doesn't have to worry about the 10GB quota when it's broken like that
<Nafallo> much easier to not have quota ;-)
<ajmitch> :P
<ajmitch> not all of us live in such countries
<Yagisan> anyone here testing the ltsp feature in breezy ?
<zyga> Yagisan: ltsp?
<Yagisan> linux terminal server project
<ogra> Yagisan, #edubuntu ;)
<ogra> its built around that
<Yagisan> I just won a few pentium 2's off ebay
<Yagisan> thought I'd give them to wife and kids
<Yagisan> and power them off my amd64 beast
<Yagisan> ogra: thanks
<ogra> Yagisan, thanks as well, i search eagerly for testers :)
<\sh> lamont: u r in germany? Greetings to Martin 'Joey' Schulze ... from a former #linuxger@ircnet member ,-)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<lamont> \sh: he says hi back to you.
<\sh> lamont: I hope u enjoy your stay in germany :) actually u will have cold nights and warm days this week ;)
<bddebian> Heya \sh
<\sh> hey bddebian :)
<dholbach> slomo_: what do you think about bugzilla #9093?
<slomo_> hmm... probably can be included... but do we have someone to test it with xmms? i don't use it anymore ;)
<slomo_> from a quick view over the patch it looks good
<dholbach> you should have a media mailing list, i could assign the bug to ;)
<slomo_> there is one ;)
<slomo_> motumedia@tauware.de
<dholbach> oh wow
<bddebian> So who is the autoconf/automake foo Master?
<slomo_> bddebian: nobody is... but why don't you just ask your question? :P
<dholbach> slomo: grmbl, bugzilla doesnt like motumedia@tauware,de yet :)
<slomo> shawarma: hi... i think you should promote the libmms main inclusion a bit more as it's now finally in universe and people can begin to look at it ;)
<slomo> dholbach: just assign it to me so i don't forget it ;)
<mgalvin> hi all, long time no see
<dholbach> slomo: right
<slomo> dholbach: oh wait... xmms is main... forget it ;)
<bddebian> Well in prokyon3 right before it does AC_CHECK_LIB(z, main, [] , ...)  it does $LIBS="-L$x_libraries" and I cannot figure out where x_libraries comes from.
<shawarma> slomo: Like bitch about it on ubuntu-devel mailing list?
<dholbach> slomo: if you discuss it, i'll sponsor the upload
<bddebian> In fact, right now it's blank.  If I change that line to $LIBS="$LIBS" it compiles fine.
<slomo> shawarma: no... like replying to your own mail and saying that it is in universe now ;)
<shawarma> slomo: Good point.
<\sh> Oh well...
<slomo> bddebian: look at configure --help... there should be something like --with-x-libs or something... give it /usr/lib as parameter... and /usr/include for the x includes
* \sh doesn't like the internet anymore
<slomo> dholbach: i have not enough time for such stuff currently ;) for dapper maybe...
<slomo> \sh: why? what happened?
<\sh> slomo: I found on www.linuxger.de on the ex-members of this irc channel my old NickName
<dholbach> slomo: i can imagine
<slomo> \sh: and what's so bad about it?
<\sh> lamont: Tell 'Joey' to change the nickname in front of "Stephan Hermann" into '\sh' please ... the ones standing there is too old ,-)
<slomo> dholbach: do you know someone who still uses xmms?
<\sh> slomo: "FlirtMan - Stephan Hermann"
<dholbach> slomo: mvo does ;)
<\sh> it all started 1993
<bddebian> \sh: :)
<\sh> my past kills me sometimes...oh well
<slomo> dholbach: ok, i'll try to keep it in mind and ask him when i'm bored ;)
<mvo> slomo: what's wrong with xmms?
<slomo> \sh: luckily nothing like this exists about me ;) at least i found nothing
<slomo> mvo: nothing... but bugzilla #9093 may be worth a thought :)
<\sh> slomo: the good thing from those times were: we didn't need any dating portal sites to meet girls ;-)
<bddebian> heh
<\sh> slomo:  we just met and had s*x
<\sh> i mean not in this linuxger channel...
<slomo> \sh: hmm, why were the old times always better than today? :P
<\sh> slomo: oh...those statements are "old farts" behaviour..when I was young my father was telling me this and I said: "Go away, u fool" ..but today...I'm the "old fart" and ah completly OT ;)
<bddebian> Hey, don't talk about us old farts ;-)
<mvo> slomo: #9093 is already fixed. debian-xmms got the patch some months ago and we synced it
<mvo> slomo: but thanks for telling :)
<slomo> mvo: ok, good to know :)
<dholbach> slomo: s
<dholbach> slomo: do we have mms gstreamer plugins?
<slomo> dholbach: seb128 tries to get libmms in main for breezy... then we have them ;)
<dholbach> i see
<dholbach> #10050
<dholbach> is all about it
<slomo> dholbach: we agreed that g-p-m should only contain multiverse stuff that will never be in debian as otherwise conflicts may happen and he has to add conflicts/replaces to the gst-plugins package instead of just taking the debian version
<dholbach> i see
<dholbach> what about gstreamer0.8-plugins-universe? :-p
<dholbach> where stuff can be tested
<slomo> and we already have such problem :P i want to have wavpack in debian when it matured a bit
<slomo> dholbach: same problem ;)
<slomo> otherwise i would do it instantly
<dholbach> want to be on the CC list for 10050?
<slomo> already added me there ;)
<slomo> python comments are started with #?
<dholbach> yes (if they're not the hashbang line :))
<slomo> haha... i got launchpad karma for nothing ;)
<slomo> (except translations upstream...)
<slomo> how does LP verify that this was me and not someone else with my name?
<bddebian> slomo: Well I got a karma of 378 for nothing ;-P
<slomo> what did you do?
<bddebian> Just closed a bunch of random bugs ;-)
<slomo> doko: where is the filebrowser in spe? and why does it nothing when i select default as webbrowser and works when i select for example firefox? ;)
<slomo> hmm... insane version number... openoffice.org2-amd64 (1.9.129-0.1ubuntu1-0ubuntu1)
<slomo> dholbach: you know something about python? can you tell me how i can do "printf-debugging" in python? ;) i added a print to the relevant part of the sources and it doesn't print anything :(
<doko> slomo: don't know ...
<slomo> doko: ok, i'll try to fix the browser stuff... but you don't know where the filebrowser is? hmm... maybe there isn't one? ;)
<\sh> slomo: what du u want to do?
<slomo> \sh: i want to have the contents of one variable... print variableName doesn't work
<shackan> it should..
<\sh> print "%s" % variable?
<\sh> slomo: variable must be a python string for "print variable" to work
<slomo> it is a string
<\sh> slomo: u sure?
<\sh> a python string or something else?
<shackan> oh well, you can print also numbers, there's some implicit conversion
<slomo> i hope ;) it should contain a filename
<shackan> str(variableName) converts to a string, if it's not one already
<\sh> shackan: truwe
<\sh> true even
<slomo> but it should print some kind of error when it's no string...
<jamessan|work> \sh: actually, it can be anything that has a __str__ method. Python will do the conversion for you
<shackan> slomo, but you're that that line gets executed ?
<shackan> *you're sure, sorry
<slomo> shackan: yes... but i have to leave now for some minutes ;) brb
<\sh> jamessan|work: QString bla; is as well a string, and I can do what ever i want..but print doesn't work..without a str() conversion
<jamessan|work> QString?
<\sh> PyQT ;)
<shackan> argh
<shackan> so you have to explicitly cast to a python string first ?
<\sh> yepp
<jamessan|work> \sh: well, my simple class of: class Foo(object): def __str__(self): return 'foo'   works fine when I print an instance
<\sh> jamessan|work: the problem is, if the value is not complying to the python string standard (utf8 bla) it won't print...try it with pyqt...it's quite annoying...
<shackan> so what strange format are qt strings ?
<\sh> shackan: utf8 converted c-strings
<\sh> actually it's more a bytestream ,-)
<shackan> if they're utf8 internally, they should work out of the box...
<\sh> shackan: not at all..as i said it's something else..but not a normal string..
<shackan> ok I don't understand english, sorry, anyway, I like pygtk and wanted to try some pyqt but what you say makes me change idea :)
<mbreit> hi everyone
<bddebian> Heya mbreit
<mbreit> lamont: did you look at the scons/ardour-problem on the buildds?
<lamont> mbreit: I think I did, but don't remember any more... will look again
<mbreit> lamont: thanks.... i have now a second package that does not build on the buildd but works fine in my pbuilder... and guess what build-system it uses ;)
* lamont executes sbuild -dbreezy -A ardour_0.9beta29-5ubuntu1 on his laptop, so that he can see the error
<bddebian> Heya ivoks
* ivoks will compare his laptop after windoos installation and same laptop after ubuntu installation
<lamont> mbreit: most strange... works for me... scheduled rebuilds for a few minutes hence
<mbreit> where is the difference in building it with pbuilder or sbuild?
<bddebian> OK, is it --with-x-libraries=/foo/bar or --x-libraries=/foo/bar ?
<spayne> hey all
<bddebian> Heya spa
<lamont> anyone working on fixing prokyon3?
<bddebian> Err spayne
<bddebian> lamont: Right now
<bddebian> lamont: I think I just figured it out
<spayne> right
<spayne> i wouldl like to become a MOTU
<spayne> or a universe package maintainer
<spayne> if they are the same thing
<bddebian> spayne: Go for it :-)
<bddebian> lamont: Why, you need something?
<lamont> well, it's FTBFS
<bddebian> lamont: I know.  It built fine here for me before I uploaded.  I will re-upload here in a minute.
<\sh> re guys
<lamont> bddebian: in a clean chroot?
<bddebian> wb \sh
<\sh> ogra: ping
<ogra> pong
<bddebian> lamont: Probably not :-(
<spayne> where is the best place to start?
<spayne> i have never package before
<spayne> but keen to learn
<bddebian> I had some whacky pbuilder stuff going on
<\sh> ogra: it looks like that i can't attend at tomorrows motu meeting...we get visitors from iesy..and I have to play the clown aeh host
<lamont> bddebian: in a clean chroot, we wind up with LIBS='-L', which then causes gcc to bitch beacuse -L expects an argument.
<lamont> appears that x_libraries=""
<bddebian> Yep
<ogra> \sh, no porb...
<bddebian> I'm gonna pass --x-libraries=/usr/lib and --x-includes=/usr/include/X11 to configure
<lamont> so anyway, it's not a -build upload that is needed, of course.
<ogra> prob too
<\sh> ogra: i will fill u in with the important infos in a query..so u can jump for me in
<siretart> spayne: have you had a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources?
* spayne goes there
<siretart> spayne: it has some interesting links under the 'new to packaging' section, espc. the new maintainer guide
* siretart heads home, cu!
<\sh> ogra: better i put in on the agenda :)
<lamont> bddebian: if a package has 'failed' logs on all the architectures, please don't upload a -build to trigger a rebuild attempt
<ogra> \sh, yup..
<lamont> bddebian: -build is for when the version in question already exists in the archive (binary), and you need to rebuild it.
<spayne> where is the best place to start for a new guy
<spayne> a.) new package
<spayne> b.) rebuild a debian packe
<mbreit> lamont: ardour has failed again, same error
<lamont> mbreit: woot
<lamont> mbreit: have I mentioned that I hate it.
<bddebian> lamont: I know, I was only working from the libqt3c102-mt-dev depends
<mbreit> lamont: for some reason it does not find alsa/asoundlib.h which is in libasound2-dev
<mbreit> i guess it's a scons problem
<bddebian> spayne: Probably pull an existing package and poke around and see if you can "fix" it. :-)
<spayne> any suggestions?
<lamont> mbreit: yeah, kicking things around a little bit more to get more info
<mbreit> lamont: could you look at cheesetracker as well? seems to be the same problem... builds fine here but not on buildd and uses scons ;)
<bddebian> spayne: Look at the UniverseUnmetDeps wiki page or MOTUTodo
<lamont> file SConstruct,line 341:
<lamont>         Configure( confdir = .sconf_temp )
<lamont> Checking for C header file alsa/asoundlib.h... .sconf_temp/conftest_0.c <-
<lamont>   |
<lamont>   |#include "alsa/asoundlib.h"
<lamont>   |
<lamont>   |
<lamont> gcc -I. -c -o .sconf_temp/conftest_0.o .sconf_temp/conftest_0.c
<lamont> scons: *** [.sconf_temp/conftest_0.o]  Error 1
<lamont> no
<lamont> mbreit: ^^^
<mbreit> lamont: is there no gcc-output (error-message) or does gcc succeed and scons just thinks it failed?
<lamont> that was the entire chunk of config.log
<mbreit> lamont: that looks like the cheesetracker error... there is also a gcc call with no error message but scons saying it failed
<spayne> there are two packages i know of
<spayne> which are not in universe
<spayne> vnc2swf and wv-dev
<spayne> i could build these but i'm not sure i'f it will be too hard
<ogra> spayne, i thought \sh had packaged vnc2swf as his first package...
<zyga> hello, is there anyone that could help me dbus wise? :)
<\sh> spayne: vnc2swf its on my todo
<\sh> ogra: yes...quite horrible..i will push it for dapper...cause there are a lot of updates
<spayne> oh well :-(
<spayne> all these ToDo packages seem difficult
<ogra> \sh, rather rewrite it as vnc2ogg :)
<\sh> spayne: vnc2swf is a bitch..it needs an old lib
<spayne> the new python ones doesn't
<\sh> ogra: it works as well on amd64 with the gplflash lib
<spayne> \sh: pyvnc2swf kicks ass
<spayne> it doesn't need ming 0.2
<\sh> spayne: oh...u see..then u can package it :) but i hope it works on amd64 as well :)
<spayne> \sh: i am new remember - never packageed before ;-)
<spayne> any thoughts upon this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowToBuildDebianPackagesFromScratch
<\sh> ogra / siretart / bddebian: please have a look on the motu agenda for tomorrow and check if i forgot something, thx
<\sh> spayne: it was me
<spayne> \sh: it must be good then :-)
<\sh> spayne: my first 18 hours of packaging...but I have to finish it, with something easier...TIME I NEED TIME
<spayne> \sh: the only deps seem to be Python 2.3 and PyGame 1.7
<spayne> \sh: the only deps seem to be Python 2.3 and PyGame 1.6 even
<\sh> spayne: our rule: python2.4
<spayne> yeh
<\sh> and wth is pygame
<spayne> well, here i go
<spayne> obviously, i'm on Breezy
<\sh> spayne: yes..good..so python2.4 has to be standard...but you can provide python2.3 packages as well..no 2.2/2.1 packages please
<spayne> i will see what i can do
<spayne> is it ok to ask here if i get stuck?
<\sh> spayne: for this reason we're here :)
<spayne> any other Wiki pages i should take a glance at?
<\sh> DeveloperResources, PbuilderHowto, check the CDBS Manual (there is a link on DeveloperResources), get familiar with gpg, devscripts debhelper dpatch etc. pp.
<spayne> obviously, i need DebootstrapChroot?
<bddebian> \sh: I'll check it out
<\sh> spayne: u need pbuilder
<\sh> bddebian: thx
<spayne> not DebootstrapChroot?
<spayne> \sh: not DebootstrapChroot?
<\sh> spayne: only when u have serious troubles with the source..then u can check it out with fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage in a chroot
<spayne> \sh: so i set up pbuilder and then have a bash at getting it working?
<\sh> spayne: pbuilder is always clean, a debchroot isn't
<\sh> spayne: check PbuilderHowto :)
<\sh> spayne: and man dh_make
<\sh> or was it dh-make?
<spayne> so, if i make a pyvnc2swf, what happens next?
<spayne> also, when i start to make it in chroot, do i run dchroot
<spayne> or something else for pbuilder?
<\sh> it's written in the pbuilder document...u create the source package with debuild -S (or -S -sa for new upstream version package) in the debianized source tree
<\sh> then cd ..
<\sh> sudo pbuilder build package.dsc
<\sh> sudo pbuilder build <package>.dsc is better
<slomo> or instead of debuild use pdebuild
<\sh> or pdebuild ,)
<spayne> \sh: you tutorial says to run dchroot -c mychroot -d
<bddebian> Do none of you ever test around in a pbuilder login first?
<spayne> \sh: is that pbuilder or not?
<\sh> spayne: forget my tutorial..that was a tutorial of a n00b ,)
<spayne> this is confusing
<\sh> spayne: thats debchroot
<slomo> bddebian: i sometimes work in a pbuilder login ;) when something needs harder fixing
<spayne> following two HOWTOs
<spayne> HowToBuildDebianPackagesFromScratch
<spayne> and PbuilderHowto
<\sh> spayne: forget this howto
<\sh> the HowToBuildDebianPackagesFromScratch..i renew it, when I'm sitting in the plane to UBZ
<spayne> \sh: so, what should i follow for making a new package then?
<slomo> spayne: debian new maintainer guide or how it was called... and look at existing similar packages (made by someone sane ;) )
<\sh> spayne: http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/
<\sh> PbuilderHowto
<\sh> DeveloperResources in common
<spayne> how confusing is http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/?
<slomo> not confusing imho ;)
<spayne> http://women.alioth.debian.org/wiki/index.php/English/PackagingTutorial looks better
<bddebian> How do I change configure options for a cdbs package?
<\sh> spayne: but this is only a short excerpt of debian maintainer guide..so read the two :)
<\sh> bddebian: DEB_CONFIGURE_EXTRA_FLAGS := --with-ipv6 --with-foo
<slomo> bddebian: rtfm ;) https://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml#id2501301
<slomo> bddebian: DEB_CONFIGURE_EXTRA_FLAGS
<\sh> bddebian: https://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml
<slomo> lol
<bddebian> slomo, \sh: that document sucks
<slomo> bddebian: hmm... why?
<\sh> bddebian: it gives u everything ,)
<bddebian> I find it very difficult to read/comprehend
<\sh> bddebian: it's cdbs
<bddebian> No, it's broken English ;-P
<slomo> bddebian: maybe only for native english speakers ;)
<Shufla> hello
<slomo> hi Shufla
<Shufla> hi slomo
<Shufla> bye :>
<slomo> hm
<bddebian> slomo: :-)
<bddebian> Hello shuf
<bddebian> Err
<slomo> :)
<bddebian> For example: That document says "Just add DEB_CONFIGURE_EXTRA_FLAGS" blah blah.  But to where?  The rules file?
<slomo> bddebian: yes
<bddebian> slomo: Thx man, you ROCK :-)
<slomo> everything cdbs related belongs in the rules... except control file managment but this is evil anyway ;)
<bddebian> Heh
<bddebian> lamont: OK, prolyon3 uploaded ;-)
<slomo> :)
<dholbach> re
<dholbach> spayne: it IS in the archive :-)
* spayne is attempting to make his first package
<dholbach> ROCK
<dholbach> super
<dholbach> be sure to let me have a look
<spayne> oh bugger
<spayne> i just realised i downloaded the sources
<bddebian> wb dholbach
<spayne> i just realised i downloaded the binary
<spayne> not the source
<dholbach> looking at REVU is a good thing to do - since 1) you see other packaging (attempts) 2) you see the comments
<slomo> wb dholbach :)
<dholbach> hey barry, hey sebastian
<ivoks> hi
<bddebian> Heya ivoks
<spayne> the debian guide
<spayne> is VERY VERY confusing
<ivoks> http://www.grad.hr/~ivoks/winVSubu.pdf if anyone interested
<bddebian> spayne: Aye :-(
<slomo> spayne: why?
<spayne> i'm stuck
<spayne> i've ran dh_make
<spayne> but what am i meant to do next
<ivoks> hard part :)
<ivoks> enter debian and do some editing
<dholbach> spayne: dh_make and looking at other packaging helps A  LOT
<spayne> what about another python project which is small i can look at?
<ivoks> spayne: wifi-radar :)
<spayne> is that simple?
<ivoks> yes
<ivoks> 30kb
<slomo> ivoks: cdbs or dh_python stuff?
<ivoks> slomo: none :)
<ivoks> slomo: cp
<spayne> i have no idea what i am meant to be doing?
<slomo> ivoks: but dh_python is important for getting the dependencies automatically... and instead of cp you should use dh_install imho
<ivoks> slomo: that will I do in next revision
<\sh> ivoks: NICE
<slomo> ivoks: hmm... is this already in universe? and who advocated it? ;)
<spayne> this is a python app
<ivoks> \sh: what?
<spayne> is that making it more difficult
<slomo> spayne: no... sometimes this makes it even easier ;)
<dholbach> spayne: look at some packages on   http://revu.tauware.de
<dholbach> spayne: look at the .diff.gz and you see what they added to the original upstream tarball
<dholbach> spayne: and especially look at the comments :)
<ivoks> slomo: :p
<spayne> help!
<slomo> ivoks: it wasn't me... good ;)
<\sh> ivoks: the pdf
<\sh> ivoks: is it available for publishing it on the planet???
<ivoks> \sh: sure
<ivoks> \sh: but it needs lecturing :)
<ivoks> too many mistakes
<slomo> ivoks: want a third review for wifi radar? ;)
<ivoks> slomo: no, i will repackage wifi-radar soon
<ivoks> slomo: beofre breezy goes out
<ivoks> slomo: so, no worry :)
<slomo> ivoks: ok :) was this your first package?
<ivoks> slomo: yes
<slomo> ivoks: ah... then it was even better than my first one :) but i've rewritten it too ;)
<ivoks> :)
<bddebian> Well I've tried: DEB_CONFIGURE_EXTRA_FLAGS and COMMON_CONFIGURE_FLAGS := --x-libraries=/usr/lib and it still isn't picking them up.. :-(
<slomo> spayne: look in the debian directory that was created by dh_make... look at each file and compare it with some existing packages until you understand what everything does (by asking or using google ;) )
<slomo> bddebian: it's the DEB_* variable... show me the package :)
<ivoks> slomo: or man ;)
<\sh> ivoks: forget it :) published
<\sh> ivoks: http://linux.blogweb.de/archives/102-Laptop-Installation-Windows-vs.-Ubuntu.html
<ivoks> hehe ok
<ivoks> man, you are fast :)
* ivoks doesn't have time for seriuos blogging :/
<dholbach> bddebian: you have to be sure you don't add those FLAGS before include-ing the cdbs/*.mk files :)
<spayne> what is emacsen-install.ex about?
<slomo> spayne: it's probably useless for you... all the .ex files are examples... and this one is for emacs stuff
<spayne> emacs?
<dholbach> it's crack, apart from packages wanting to install some emacs related stuff
<spayne> and the uwatch thing?
<slomo> hmm, isn't it called watch nowadays?
<spayne> yeh
* bddebian vomits on emacs
<spayne> do i need the watch thing?
<slomo> it contains the url (with some regexp) for the upstream tarball... so you can just run uscan for updating to a new upstream version
<slomo> it fetches the tarball, unpacks it and adds your packaging to it
<spayne> do i need it though?
<slomo> no... but it is useful imho
<bddebian> w0000t, thanks dholbach, slomo!!
<dholbach> de rien :)
<dholbach> i ran into that too
<spayne> what about the menu file
<dholbach> and blamed upstream for having wrong auto-foo :)
<bddebian> hehe
<\sh> ivoks: me neither...but I writing/typing what i'm thinking at the same time..look at the mistakes
<spayne> i've made a *.menu desktop entry
<slomo> spayne: exactly how it sounds... debian menu system... similar to the desktop files and afaik it isn't used anymore
<spayne> how do i tell the package to install it into the right place?
<ivoks> \sh: i have ivoks.blogspot.com, but didn't post anything new... :/
<slomo> spayne: put something to install it in debian/rules... dh_install debian/bla.menu path/where/it/should/be
<\sh> ivoks: tell jdub u want to have it added to the planet...give him the url, the feed url and a hackgotchi...well...ogra is making nice ones ,)
* spayne wonders if he will have every packaged enough to be added to Planet Ubuntu
<bddebian> KICK ASS, torcs builds!!!
<\sh> spayne: u have to be a member
<spayne> what do you have to do to be a member?
<slomo> oh i could also be on p.u.c... hm... but i don't want yet ;)
<\sh> spayne: do some work here, or for ubuntu whatever, document the work on your personal wiki page on wiki.ubuntu.com...if u don't have one...create one
<bddebian> spayne: Or just annoy people like I do ;-P
<dholbach> spayne: yeah, bddebian is a great example for that :-p
<spayne> bddebian: where is your wiki page?
<bddebian> :'-(
<dholbach> just kidding :)
* dholbach hugs bddebian 
<bddebian> spayne: My wiki page sucks but it's BarrydeFreese
<ivoks> firefox looks ugly on fresh ubuntu :/
<\sh> i have to update my wiki page..
<dholbach> bddebian: MAN - it doesnt
<dholbach> i guess i found the first apt-get.org package that is ready to go :)
<slomo> dholbach: which one? ;)
<dholbach> jpeg2ps :)
<slomo> dholbach: are you trying to get the apt-get.org packagers to work with us... or just take the package?
<dholbach> slomo: both - i will make notes and write them mails shortly before release
<dholbach> slomo invite them to become part of the crew
* bddebian was hoping to get to apt-get org stuff but is focused on UniverseUnmetDeps
<dholbach> bddebian: don't worry
<slomo> bddebian: unmet deps is important too
<bddebian> Important to who?  No one cares.. ;-P
<bddebian> *sniff, sniff* poor me.. ;-)
<slomo> bddebian: i care :P and i would do the unmet deps stuff... but i'm to busy atm :(
<dholbach> somebody should write all the old MOTU farts a mail to invite them to join your efforts, bddebian :)
<chillywilly> ?!?
<chillywilly> hi
<dholbach> hey chillywilly
<slomo> bbl
<dholbach> see you slomo
<bddebian> chillywilly: !!
<bddebian> dholbach: What are you trying to say?? :-)
<dholbach> bddebian: re-recruit the old MOTUs :)
<bddebian> Are there old MOTUs like me? :-)
<dholbach> wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU has some of them :)
<bddebian> Maybe I start a SOMOTU Team? :-)
<bddebian> SO == Soggy Old ;-P
<ogra> heh
<dholbach> ogra: what do you think about that? get the old crew together again? :)
<ogra> why not :)
<spayne> how does my page look: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SebPayne
* spayne thinks he still stick to documenting
<dholbach> looks nice
<bddebian> spayne: Nah, if I can do some of this stuff, ANYONE can :-)
<dholbach> spayne: bddebian likes his little jokes, he  R O C K S !
<dholbach> spayne: and we all are proud to have him in the team
* dholbach hugs bddebian again :)
<bddebian> pshaw
<bddebian> :-)
<zyga> could someone help me with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU
<zyga> I need to send my keyid but it does not say on which server that key should be stored...
<dholbach> send a signed mail to siretart, afaik
<dholbach> any "normal" keyserver having your key will be fine
<dholbach> they autosync from each other every now and then
<siretart> zyga: did you mail me already an request do get your key added?
<zyga> siretart: no I'm just planning to
<siretart> zyga: ok
<siretart> zyga: whats your keyid?
<zyga> siretart: I'm not a gpg guru so the thing is a little not-obvious to me :)
<zyga> B3020F9C
<zyga> I'm using seahorse to export the key but I guess seahorse is broken... it hangs the application
<siretart> zyga: try http://tauware.de/content/view/26/52/ ;)
<siretart> zyga: I cannot find your public key on the keyserver. did you upload them? is your key signed?
<siretart> zyga: use gpg --export -a B3020F9C
<dholbach> siretart: why is your blog not on planet.u.c yet?
<dholbach> :)
<zyga> siretart: I think I used to when I created it; I don't think it's signed by anyone :)
<zyga> http://pgp.surfnet.nl:11371/pks/lookup?op=vindex&fingerprint=on&search=0xB3020F9C
<siretart> zyga: ok, your key is added. please try to get your key signed
<zyga> siretart: okay so I put the result of gpg --export  in the mail and signed it, is that enough?
<zyga> siretart: signed by who? (do I seem lost ;-) ?
<siretart> zyga: signed preferably by a Ubuntu or Debian developer
<dholbach> zyga: where do you live?
<zyga> in Poland, Warsaw
<dholbach> there should be a couple of debian maintainers in warsaw
<dholbach> *has a look*
<siretart> zyga: you will definitly need this, if you want to get your key in the ubuntu keyring, which is a prequisite if you want to upload packages to ubuntu
<dholbach> zyga: Warszawa: Lukasz Jachowicz <honey@debian.org>
<siretart> fEnIo is a DD and for sure from Poland, not sure where exactly, though
<dholbach> zyga: you may want to mail him to get your key signed
<dholbach> zyga: meet him, bring your fingerprint and your passport/ID
<dholbach> maybe http://www.biglumber.com/x/web?qs=warsaw too
<zyga> dholbach: I'll try, thanks
<dholbach> zyga: super
<zyga> okay, I've mailed him... this may take some time I guess :-)
<zyga> all I'm trying to do is to put a very very popular package into universe
<zyga> it's already debianized, it works people need it :)
* dholbach hums "the girl from ipanema" ... again
<ogra> ARGH !
<dholbach> ogra: i very much look forward to meet you again :-p
<bddebian> dholbach: :)
* ogra looks for his earplugs to put them in the trunk for UBZ
<dholbach> :-D
<ogra> :p
* dholbach hugs ogra
* ogra hugs dholbach 
<zyga> umm....
<ogra> zyga, ?
<zyga> no no ... go on ;-)
<ogra> GROUPHUG !
<dholbach> haha
<bddebian> heh
<zyga> arghh
* ogra hugs zyga and dholbach 
<ogra> and bddebian indeed
* zyga got cought in a cross hug :-)
<dholbach> ogra:  you never played multi user dungeons, did you?
* bddebian hugs ogra, dholbach, zyga, siretart, et al
* zyga wields shield
* zyga wields sword
<bddebian> heh
<ogra> heh
<dholbach> haha
<ogra> dholbach, ages ago in another life
<dholbach> i know a german mud, where you could "grouphug" too
<dholbach> the text that went with it, was very funny
<dholbach> but i haven't been there for 3-4 years or something
<zyga> dholbach: hug-side question, eventualy my key will be in the universe keyring?
<dholbach> zyga: if you become a member and then a motu, then yes
<dholbach> (are you a motu already?)
* dholbach lost track
<zyga> no...
<dholbach> so that will be the first "station"
<zyga> I'm a debian/ubuntu newbie with background in programming
<dholbach> i daresay you already did some work for ubuntu :)
<dholbach> zyga: you'll manage, i'm quite sure
<dholbach> zyga: it all comes down to teamplay and involvement
<dholbach> :)
<zyga> I'm a karma whore ;] 
<dholbach> woohoo! :)
<zyga> https://launchpad.net/people/zkrynicki
<zyga> not much but I'm working on it ;-)
<zyga> hmm
* zyga notices his public key on lanuchpad is different 
<zyga> ah... sorry, my mistake
* dholbach didn't know about  debian/compress  - wow
<zyga> dholbach: enlighten us
<dholbach> it seems that it may contain a list or a shell-portion that generates a list of files that are compressed (in the resulting package)
<dholbach> it's in one of the apt-get.org packages
<dholbach> not that i'd use it, but even so
<ogra> ist that what dh_compress does anyway ?
<ogra> isnt even
<dholbach> debian/rules calls dh_compress
<ogra> yes, for compressing changelog etc...
<dholbach> *scroll*
<dholbach>        If a debian/package.compress file exists, however, it will be ran as a shell script, and all filenames that the shell script outputs
<dholbach>        will be compressed instead of the default files. The shell script will be run from inside the package build directory. Note though
<dholbach>        that using -X is a much better idea in general; you should only use a debian/package.compress file if you really have to.
<dholbach> learning with apt-get.org! YAY! :)
<zyga> hmm :)
<\sh> dholbach: in which package is it?
<zyga> \sh: yodaspeak you do
<dholbach> \sh: ewb-handbook on debian.or.jp
<\sh> zyga: yeah.i'm old, green and a little gnome
<\sh> ,)
<bddebian> heh
<dholbach> but watch him go with his light sabre :)
<\sh> ah well...I'm a computer simulation too
<\sh> 7nick lisa
<zyga> hehehe
<ogra> http://www.h.shuttle.de/mitch/stuff/kenny.html
<ogra> http://www.h.shuttle.de/mitch/stuff/kenny_1.7-3_all.deb
<ogra> ;)
<ogra> better than yodaspeak
<dholbach> ogra: could you put the repository on AptGetOrg ? :)
<ogra> heh
<\sh> dholbach: is apt-get.org your page?
<dholbach> \sh: you're welcome to assist me :)
<dholbach> hey fabio
<thesaltydog> \sh, I made some test with bluetooth.
<\sh> dholbach: hehe...bringing those repositories into ubuntu>
<\sh> ?
<\sh> no problem...
<dholbach> \sh: not entire repository, just carefully review packages that might be included
<zyga> ogra: check the source of http://www.namesuppressed.com/kenny/ for nice easter eggs
<dholbach> \sh: license, {pre,post}{inst,rm}, security stuff, ...
<ogra> http://www1.apt-get.org/search.php?query=kenny&submit=&arch%5B%5D=i386&arch%5B%5D=all
<\sh> dholbach: I think i will join u during the weekend :)
<ogra> added
<\sh> i will leave u early today, cause tomorrow i have to play the clown well the host for some managers of iesy
<\sh> I love it
<dholbach> super :)
<\sh> dholbach: this is really not "super" :( we have to catch the knowledge of our resigned teammate and then those suite guys are coming and sniffing around...
<bddebian> ack
<\sh> dholbach: the square with the redcross means no valid repos anymore, the single square means not checked, and the rest with the green arrow means: checked and ok?
<dholbach> \sh: i did some work on AptGetOrg (the wiki page) already
<dholbach> (including a test build)
<\sh> dholbach: this is not much to go...but it's only build on amd64...
<dholbach> \sh: you can be sure, that those packages that FTBFS did not FTBFS because of amd64-brokenness
<dholbach> they are broken themselves :)
<\sh> dholbach: that's what i thought....
<slomo> dholbach: build on sparc64 when you want to know if it's broken because of 64bit or big endian ;)
<dholbach> haha :)
<bddebian> :-)
<\sh> ok...dudes...i whish u a good night, day, afternoon whereever u are..)
<\sh> cu tomorrow
<slomo> hmm... is launchpad dead?
<thesaltydog> slomo, it seems to be...
<thesaltydog> it was working 2 hours ago. then...stopped.
<ajmitch> morning all
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<dholbach> hey andrew
<dholbach> how's it going?
<ajmitch> alright :)
<dholbach> super :)
<ajmitch> how is everything in MOTU land?
<dholbach> guess what i started working on? :)
<ajmitch> Hubuntu! ;)
<ajmitch> nah, you wouldn't take that joy off bddebian..
<dholbach> nooo :)
<ajmitch> AptGetOrg!
<dholbach> yeah :)
<ajmitch> great
<dholbach> i found yet another funny copyright file
* ajmitch needs a drink
<dholbach> not as funny as the one packaging old sierra games, which stated "this software was downloaded from: the internet - copyright: yes", but even so...
<slomo> lol
<slomo> paste it please :)
<dholbach> And SPICE3f5 (not installer) is distributed under the following licence.
<dholbach> "Free for people friendly to the U.S.A."
<ajmitch> ouch
<slomo> lol
<dholbach> hahaha
<ajmitch> nasty ;)
<dholbach> i will file that under "license questionable", right? :)
<ajmitch> certainly not DFSG-free ;)
<bddebian> ajmitch: Ha ha :-)
<ajmitch> I really hope they have power & wifi in some of the airports I'll be stuck in :)
<ajmitch> hm, looks like vancouver does..
<ajmitch> so I'll be able to stay on irc there ;)
<dholbach> man.... you're a maniac :)
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> I'm not that bad
<dholbach> no, you're not :)
<ajmitch> what I meant to say was that I could still upload packages from the airport :)
<slomo> like a new f-spot release? ;)
<ajmitch> slomo: if it's out
<dholbach> ajmitch: if dapper is open then
<dholbach> and another one:   Copyright:
<dholbach> At present, it is written in Japanese only, please see copyright.ja
<dholbach> and note that it is not allowed to use these fonts for commercial
<dholbach> purpose and also you can not modify these fonts unless you contacted
<dholbach> to gt@l.u-tokyo.ac.jp
<ajmitch> dholbach: breezy was open at UDU
<dholbach> true
<slomo> ajmitch: i bet it's already out but they again forgot to publish it ;)
<ajmitch> slomo: probably
<ajmitch> hm, not yet :)
<ajmitch> ok, I have to get off to work
<ajmitch> I'll be back online soon :)
<slomo> gn8 everybody :)
<bddebian> GNight slomo
<dholbach> where are all those crazy MOTUPython guys?
<dholbach> how do i package stuff that wants X, gtk and everything else working in a braindead setup.py?
<dholbach> neglect setup.py?
<dholbach> daniel "there must be an easy option" holbach :)
<dholbach> oh cool, it even wants to install schemas *grmbl*
<shackan> what's that?
<ajmitch> dholbach: sounds easy enough
<dholbach> i see, so drop python-distutils and use debhelper only?
<ajmitch> no real need to do that
* ajmitch uses distutils together with cdbs
<dholbach> yeah, i normally do too
<dholbach> but this case is different, hrm
<bddebian> Time to head home, later gang
<dholbach> bye barry
* bddebian hugs dholbach ;-)
<dholbach> :))))
* ajmitch wonders at the amount of hugging & affirmation going on here
#ubuntu-motu 2005-09-27
<dholbach> good night... i'm off to bed
<Shufla> hello
<Shufla> zyga: check email.
<zyga> Shufla: hey
<zyga> Shufla: I just replied :)
<Shufla> grt - prv
<sivang> Shufla: you dance a lot of rueda I suppose? :)
<Shufla> sivang: yes... indeed... Rueda de Casino...
<Shufla> huh...
<sivang> Shufla: your nick is like when you Shuffle your partner in it :)
<sivang> "Inshufla"
<Shufla> heh :>
<Shufla> En Chuffala
<sivang> or , "Di Le Keno"
<sivang> lol
<sivang> now I Now how to write it
<sivang> or "Da Me"
<Shufla> heh.
<Shufla> well, my nick wsa given to me before I started to dance salsa
<Shufla> http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Dancing:Salsa:Rueda_de_Casino
<siretart> Burgundavia: still having problems with londonlaw?
<siretart> Burgundavia: if yes, make sure you have libwxgtk2.6-0 installed. if londonlaw still uses 2.4, please contact me
<dooglus> is it worth making a bug report for typos in manual pages, or should I just ignore it?
<ogra> dooglus, make a bug report in malone but note that we wont handle it with high priority
<dooglus> ogra: ok, thanks.
<dooglus> ogra: is malone down at the moment?
<ogra> thanks as well :)
<ogra> might be, i heard there are problems wih launchpad
<bmonty> anyone having trouble accessing launchpad?
<sladen> bmonty: it's been hanging for several hours
<bmonty> :(
<bmonty> anyone been able to figure out why x utilities can't find the app-defaults folder?
<ajmitch> hi jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> morning ajmitch
<hub__> gah
<ajmitch> ?
<hub__> my package only put the /usr/doc crap in the sub-package
<ajmitch> eww
<ajmitch> you should never have /usr/doc
<hub__> the debian stuff
<hub__> it is not ine
<ajmitch> you said 'my package'?
<hub__> usr/share/doc
<hub__> libmylib-dev
<hub__> libmylib
<hub__> libmylib-bin
<hub__> libmylib-doc
<hub__> I'm packaging something for upload to REVU
<hub__> a new package
<hub__> libiptcdata
<ajmitch> ok
<hub__> :-)
<hub__> I have libiptcdata-dev.files
<hub__> i debian/
<hub__> but the files aren't compied over :-/
<ajmitch> package.files is deprecated
<hub__> ah
<ajmitch> you should be using dh_install
<hub__> damn
<hub__> I use cdbs
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> which uses dh_install
<hub__> ok
<hub__> so I mv *.files to *.install
<Lathiat> rename 's/files$/install' *
<Lathiat> im not sure mv *.files *.install will do what you want :)
<ajmitch> syntax is generally the same
<hub__> Lathiat: yeah. don't worry
<hub__> I know mv :-)
<ajmitch> the master MOTU Lathiat can help you out with it :)
<Lathiat> just checking :)
<hub__> I got bitten enough by using * and forgetting the dest dir
* Lathiat nods
<Lathiat> i've done silly things
<Lathiat> like tab complete a dir
<Lathiat> expected it to fail
<Lathiat> typed *
<Lathiat> and hit enter
<Lathiat> came back 10 minutes later
<ajmitch> ouch
<Lathiat> noticed that 90% of my homedir was no more
<Lathiat> it was about 80% through my ubuntu mirror
<Lathiat> unfortunately u is at the end of the alphabet
<hub__> Lathiat: I did a mv over the oringal file
<Lathiat> next time i name by ubuntu mirrror aaa_ubuntu
<hub__> Lathiat: I used e2fs_debug recover
<hub__> was my guadec paper
<Lathiat> heh
<hub__> ah crap
<hub__> dh_install -plibiptcdata-dev
<hub__> cp: cannot stat `./usr/lib/pkgconfig/libiptcdata.pc': No such file or directory
<ajmitch> hub__: as I said, syntax is similar :)
<hub__> but debian/tmp/usr/lib/pkgconfig/libiptcdata.pc exists
<hub__> ajmitch: yeah, I got that
<ajmitch> it might need some extra flags passed
<hub__> :-/
<ajmitch> DEB_DH_INSTALL_SOURCEDIR = debian/tmp
<Lathiat> try takign the ./ off
<Lathiat> and maybe putting debian/tmp/ at the start
<Lathiat> or that
<ajmitch> in debian/rules
<hub__> ah
<ajmitch> Lathiat: always go for the quickest hack ;)
<Lathiat> i dunno
<Lathiat> if you nee dot install fiels from debian/
<Lathiat> its not good
<Lathiat> :)
* ajmitch tries to parse
<Lathiat> yeh just forget about it ;p
<hub__> it is part of the source tree
<hub__> ajmitch: that works
<hub__> thanks
<hub__> maybe a new upload on REVU :-)
* hub__ should be coding instead of packaging
<hub__> ajmitch: btw, if one want to update a package already in ubuntu, we just need to upload a new version?
<ajmitch> yes
<hub__> ok
<Burgundavia> siretart, it appears to be still depending on python-wxgtk2.4, but installed 2.6 makes it work correctly
<hub__> a perl module, shall I use CDBS or let dh-make-perl do the rules file
<hub__> I'll use CDBS
<dholbach> good morning
<Burgundavia> ajmitch, you are going to UBZ?
<jsgotangco> hi Burgundavia
<Burgundavia> salut jsgotangco
<hub__> hey Burgundavia
* hub__ will be there
<hub__> unless there is un imprvu
<Burgundavia> ajmitch, you aren't swimming are you?
<hub__> does the order of Packages depend in the control file?
<dholbach> hub__: not really
<dholbach> only for a  bla | blubb
<hub__> dholbach: I was thinking for a split package
<hub__> dh_install -pexiftool
<hub__> cp: cannot stat `./usr/bin/exiftool': No such file or directory
<hub__> dh_install: command returned error code 256
<hub__> grrr
<hub__> and if I set
<\sh> moins
<dholbach> hi \sh
<hub__> DEB_DH_INSTALL_SOURCEDIR, it doe snot work either
* hub__ should go to bed again
<dholbach> hub__: what do you have in the bla.install file?
<dholbach> do you have it up on REVU?
<hub__> usr/bin/exiftool
<hub__> usr/share/man/man1/exiftool.1p.gz
<hub__> not yet on REVU
<Lathiat> hub__: put debian/tmp/...
<hub__> Lathiat: I did
<Lathiat> no go?
<hub__> ah in .install?
<hub__> ok
<Lathiat> ya
<dholbach> yeah, you have to first mention the files that have you in the build tree
<hub__> make sense
<hub__> dholbach: I uploaded libiptcdata earlier on REVU
<hub__> my first library package
<dholbach> excellent :)
<hub__> :-)
<dholbach> will have a look tonight, ok?
<hub__> sure
<dholbach> super
<dholbach> now i need to take murphy for a walk
<hub__> I'll queue them :-)
<hub__> murphy: the dog?
<dholbach> yep... http://murphy.gplan.info
<dholbach> :)
<hub__> I'm accumulating a collection of tools for digital photography :-)
<hub__> question now: the package dcraw comes with a tarball that is made by the debian maintainer, as upstream give a few .c
<hub__> what shall I do if I update the tarball with a new .c upstream?
<dholbach> you want to add the changes by a debian maintainer to the upstream tarball?
<hub__> there is no upstream tarball
<hub__> just that upstream come as a single .c
<hub__> actually a couple for a couple of programs
<hub__> the debian maintainer made a tarball and considered that as upstream
<hub__> the package is dcraw
<hub__> it is in universe
<hub__> but out of date
<dholbach> i see
<dholbach> you 'd have to add copyright notices for both parts of the package
<hub__> they have them
<dholbach> it's a bit cumbersome you have to "make up" your own tarball
<hub__> yeah
<hub__> this program has a lot of drawbacks
<hub__> I'll try that then
<dholbach> if you were really anal, you could take the upstream .c file, consider it as the "upstream orig tarball" and put the debian maintainers' changes into a dpacht/cdbs-patch
<dholbach> that'd be completely right thing to do
<dholbach> but it's a weird corner case
<hub__> yeah, but since the pacakge is in debian....
<dholbach> *nod*
<dholbach> you could do it the other way around too
<dholbach> thanks for doing the work on photography related stuff, hub__ - people will love that
<hub__> yeah
<hub__> I have to code too
<hub__> I have a patch pedning for libexif
<hub__> and libopenraw to continue
<hub__> (I need that patch)
<dholbach> sounds like you hardly sleep :-p
<hub__> I have had insomiae lately
<dholbach> you will need to give me an autograph at UBZ or something :-p
<jsgotangco> will a gpg sig do?
<dholbach> that would be a start :)
<hub__> I have business cards with that :-)
* \sh needs businesscards as well
<hub__> \sh: I made mine with gLabels
<\sh> but businesscards are not kewl enough anymore...I think I will tatoo my fingerprint and keyid on my bum
<\sh> u know..something special ;)
<hub__> eh
<hub__> ok
<hub__> another question
<hub__> how to force to put stuff to debian/tmp ?
<dholbach> it should be there
<dholbach> debian/tmp/packagename
<dholbach> binarypackagename that is
<hub__> it is in debian/packagename
<hub__> perl class in CDBS
<dholbach> oh, maybe i'm wrong
<hub__> trying to override DEB_DESTDIR in rules
<\sh> u have destdir honoring in the makefile?
<hub__> \sh: it is a perl module
<hub__> \sh: it works fine until I split the perl module from the perl command line tool
<\sh> so it should have it..
<hub__> that use the module
<hub__> everything is put in debian/libimage-exiftool-perl
<hub__> and things get copied to debian/exiftool living  debian/libimage-exiftool-perl with them
<hub__> so the tool package to not install :-/
<\sh> ah...
<\sh> so it's not in debian/tmp
<hub__> nope :-(
<\sh> it's already in the right placew
<hub__> well, unless I want to split the package
<hub__> perhaps I should just keep all in one, simply
<\sh> hub__: it's in universe..why don't u uupdate it?
<\sh> oh exiftool
<zakame> hello all
<jsgotangco> dholbach, ping?
<hub__> \sh: libimage-exiftool-perl is not in universe
<hub__> \sh: I checked first :-)
<dholbach> jsgotangco: pong
<jsgotangco> dholbach, meet zakame a friend of mine, debian user as well (very good packager)
<dholbach> hi zakame
<jsgotangco> dholbach, i'm pimping him to motu
<dholbach> ROCK :)
<dholbach> zakame: did he persuade you yet? :)
<jsgotangco> (im not really MOTU, but im one of the pimps)
<hub__> jsgotangco: is that sollicited?
<siretart> morning
<zakame> dholbach: ei
<zakame> sorry, stepped out a bit
<Burgundavia> dholbach, did the MOTU's ever get a logo?
<siretart> Burgundavia: since londonlaw works with both wxpython2.4 and 2.6, it has an alternative on both packages. it should prefer 2.6 on new installs, though
<zakame> dholbach: how does MOTU work?
<dholbach> Burgundavia: not yet, unfortunately
<dholbach> zakame: i'm on the phone, i'll get back to you, ok?
<jsgotangco> i'll make a logo with daniel's photo on it
<dholbach> in the mean time the rest of the MOTU crew will give you the tour :)
<Burgundavia> siretart, you talking fresh installs of londonlaw?
<zakame> dholbach: sure =)
<Burgundavia> siretart, I purged londonlaw and all versions of wxwidgets and it still wanted to install 2.4
<hub__> gah: https://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml#id2501583 <-  Install path defaults to '<first_pkg>/usr' where <first_pkg> is the first package in 'debian/control'.
<hub__> I can't seems to override that
<hub__> I think I get it
<hub__> yay
<hub__> the override must be done after include
<hub__> which is logical
<zakame> CDBS!?!
<hub__> yes
<siretart> Burgundavia: whops. my fault. in alternative dependencies, the preferred must be mentioned first. I overlooked that
<hub__> zakame: or dh-make-perl
<Burgundavia> siretart, ok
<zakame> hub__: or debian-dir :))
<siretart> Burgundavia: I just uploaded version ubuntu6, which should fix that
<siretart> Burgundavia: before, it took 2.6 only when no other alternative, now it prefers 2.6 if it is installed. and with ubuntu6, it should really install wxpython2.6 by default
<hub__> zakame: apparently the policy is CDBS
<hub__> uploading
<zakame> hmmm
<Burgundavia> siretart, hey, isn't debugging fun?
<zakame> debian-dir's actually not that far off from cdbs... i remember Manoj saying that cdbs was the inspiration...
<siretart> Burgundavia: ;)
<ivoks> let's crush those bugs
<\sh> the_bughunter: hey..I think your pdf was really good :)
<\sh> Current karma: 4, 2 vote(s) 156 hits
<hub__> is there a tool to request a debian sync
<hub__> for a package
* Burgundavia wonders is hub__ should be calling elmo a tool...
<hub__> Burgundavia: nope. but more like a bug tracker or something
<jsgotangco> "hey tool, please sync..."
<Burgundavia> hub__, you have to ask elmo to sync it for you
<hub__> Burgundavia: would be usefull
<Burgundavia> hub__, suggest it for LP
<hub__> thinking about it
<Burgundavia> LP already does everything but take out my garbage..
<hub__> and make coffe
<hub__> later
<hub__> bye
<the_bughunter> \sh: thanks :)
<the_bughunter> doko: ping
<doko> ivoks: pong
<ivoks> sec
<ivoks> back
<ivoks> doko: about j2re1.4-mozilla-plugin... it build-depends on j2re1.4... why?
<doko> ivoks: to extract the Recommendations for the libraries
<ivoks> ah... ok
<ivoks> but it fails to build :/
<ivoks> since j2re1.4 installation is interactive :/
<doko> yes, you're not looking at the recent version
<ivoks> hm...
<ivoks> i'm looking at ubuntu4
<ivoks> Errors were encountered while processing: /home/buildd/build-breezy/chroot-breezy/var/cache/apt/archives/j2re1.4_1.4.2.02-1ubuntu3_i386.deb
<doko> ivoks: sorry, forgot to upload -5, done now.
<ivoks> ah, ok
<ivoks> np
<\sh> can it be that the unmet deps list is getting bigger?
<\sh> LC_ALL=C apt-cache -i unmet
<fabbione> hi guys
<fabbione> anybody alive?
<\sh> fabbione: see -devel ;)
<Yagisan> nah - we're all dead :-P
<fabbione> ok
<ivoks> ?
<ivoks> what was that?
<Yagisan> what ?
<ivoks> fabionne
<ivoks> fabbione 
<\sh> it's ok...
<\sh> he asked for a NEW package regarding http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15897
<ivoks> nah... i hate this
<zyga> hey everyone
<slomo> \sh: unmet deps is now down to 92 packages... that's less than before iirc ;)
<slomo> and only two are really high priority imho... wesnoth and mozilla
<slomo> only mozilla... wesnoth solved itself ;)
<\sh> slomo: 110 for me
<\sh> 109 now after update
<slomo> 88 after my latest update ;)
<slomo> LC_ALL=C apt-cache -i unmet | grep ^Package | cut -d' ' -f2 | xargs apt-cache showsrc | grep ^Package | sed 's/Package\://' | sort -u | wc
<\sh> do only the first one
<\sh> LC_ALL=C apt-cache -i unmet | grep ^Package|wc -l
<slomo> 119
<slomo> hm
<\sh> see
<slomo> that's the number of broken binary packages
<slomo> nothing interesting imho
<xerxas_> hi
<xerxas> xchat-systray has dependance on xchat but not on xchat-gnome
<xerxas> is this correct ?
<ajmitch> possibly not, but I don't know if it works with xchat-gnome :)
<ajmitch> btw, hi all
<xerxas> ajmitch: seems so
<xerxas> but I'm rebuilding the deb right now to test
<xerxas> I mean I apt-get sourced xchat-systray
<xerxas> now I'm changing the debian/control
<xerxas> testing it , and will get back here when it's working
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> lucky xchat-systray is universe, rather than main like xchat is
<xerxas> so ?
<xerxas> so motu can upload ?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> and main packages can't depend on universe
<ajmitch> so you're safe there
<xerxas> ajmitch anyway, I can change xchat-gnome to provide xchat , no ?
<ajmitch> hmm
<ajmitch> you could, but I'd possibly check with seb128 (or dholbach)
<xerxas> where is seb128 ?
<xerxas> i know him
<xerxas> :
<xerxas> :)
<ajmitch> maybe in #u-devel
<xerxas> ajmitch why ask seb128 ?
<xerxas> he is a devel so has access to main ?
<ajmitch> those 2 are the main gnome team ;)
<ajmitch> and he packaged xchat-gnome
<xerxas> ok
<ajmitch> hm, I guess I've got to stay up another couple of hours
<ajmitch> Lathiat: going to turn up to the next MOTU meeting?
<Nafallo> ajmitch: there's been another one?
<Nafallo> gaah! I'll _have_ to fix my calendar
<Nafallo> oh
<ajmitch> Nafallo: there's one in 90 minutes
<Nafallo> that plugins actually works again
<ajmitch> :)
<Nafallo> aha. and it will be an hour? :-)
<Nafallo> I'll have to go and beg on my bare knees for money today see... :-P
<Lathiat> ajmitch: thanks for reminding me :)
<Nafallo> where have all my jeans gone?
<ajmitch> Nafallo: you don't need jeans if you're going to beg on bare knees
<ajmitch> is launchpad still acting crap?
<Nafallo> hehe
* Nafallo grumbles about self-resetting modems
<ajmitch> :)
* Nafallo grumbles over launchpad not coming up
<Nafallo> it's _clearly_ not my day today
<ajmitch> yeah, launchpad has had some issues recently
* Nafallo gives up and goes to bed
<Nafallo> or no... but I should get out of the door :-P
<Nafallo> hmm, when will we have our daily xorg? :-)
<slomo> shawarma: just tell seb128 to add libmms support to gst-plugins (just read your mail on -devel)
<\sh> ok...I will be attending the meeting...those guys left early..
<ogra> \sh, did you scare them away ?
<ajmitch> \sh: I'm glad you will :)
<ajmitch> heh
<\sh> ogra: well...I think they're lazy, that's how they looked..and duke explained the shit of NOC work ,-)
* ajmitch is just sitting waiting for UBZ ;)
<sistpoty> hi folks
<slomo> hi sistpoty
<ajmitch> hi sistpoty
<sistpoty> is motumeeting now?
<slomo> 4 minutes afaik
<\sh> in 4 minutes...stay tuned..need coffee and a smoke
* sistpoty runs to make a coffee as well
* ajmitch needs something stronger than coffee
<xerxas> how do I generate a gpg key sign ?
<markuman> xerxas, a person how have a signed key have to signed your key. search for persons with a signed key in your local area
<xerxas> in my local area  ?
<markuman> hm ....i mean where you live
<markuman> where are you from?
<xerxas> france
<markuman> do you have a signed gpg key or you want a signed key?
<xerxas> I have nothing
<xerxas> I probably want a gpg signed key
<markuman> if you want one, search for people in france who have a signed key
<xerxas> ubuntu people ? or just people ?
<lifeless> xerxas: ubuntu or debian or other gpg aware people
<markuman> just people
<xerxas> k
<xerxas> and then ?
<xerxas> when I found someone that have a signed key I must ask him to sign my key ?
<markuman> gpg --gen-key
<markuman> with that you make your own gpgkey
<markuman> if you have them! save it/remember the output!!!
<markuman> for example this output http://paste.debian.net/2002
<markuman> if you have done, contact the person - try to find a person in the same town ;-) or near to you
<markuman> oh yes. sry i have not read your question correctly :-/
<xerxas> why someone near me ?
<xerxas> someone that knows me for real  ?
<markuman> yes!
<zakame> hello all
<xerxas> k
<markuman> or if there is no person with a signed key who know you, just contact somebody and ask for gpgkey sign meeting
<dholbach> markuman: are you going to meet with mvo?
<markuman> yes dholbach, on saturday
<dholbach> markuman: his signature will be fine
<zakame> is launchpad down?
<ogra> zakame, #launchpad
<ajmitch> after their meeting :)
<zakame> hmmm
<Mithrandir> dholbach: can you still reproduce 7916?  I can't.
<dholbach> Mithrandir: i can
<dholbach> Mithrandir: did you install swh-plugins and reinstall gstreamer*plugins
<Mithrandir> Preparing to replace gstreamer0.8-plugins 0.8.11-0ubuntu3 (using .../gstreamer0.8-plugins_0.8.11-0ubuntu3_amd64.deb) ...
<Mithrandir> Unpacking replacement gstreamer0.8-plugins ...
<Mithrandir> Setting up gstreamer0.8-plugins (0.8.11-0ubuntu3) ...
<Mithrandir> : tfheen@golem ~ >
<Mithrandir> ii  swh-plugins    0.4.7-1        Steve Harris's LADSPA plugins
<dholbach> hrm
<dholbach> i tried it 2 days ago
<Mithrandir> can you try today?
<dholbach> Mithrandir: sure
<dholbach> Mithrandir: did you install the whole bunch of plugins?
<Mithrandir> dholbach: not now, no.  I don't see why that should be relewant
<Mithrandir> relevant, even
<Mithrandir> hmm
<Mithrandir> now I got it
<Mithrandir> theora shows it
<dholbach> Mithrandir: instlal just one plugin, the plugins package is a meta package which doesnt have that gst-compprep in postinstall
<dholbach> upstream marked it as critical
<dholbach> so i hope they come up with a fix soon
<xerxas> Help ! How do I become a memeber ? I read some pages , but don't understand everything
<xerxas> I should begin be being a member, than I'll eventually become a maintainer or a MOTU or whatever , that's it ?
<dholbach> xerxas: yeah, that's it
<dholbach> xerxas: just play with the team and it'll all magically happen :)
<xerxas> so to become a member, I just need to create a page about me in the wiki ?
<dholbach> yeah and you can also start working in any team you'd like to be part of
<dholbach> so you can illustrate your activities on your wiki page
<xerxas> dholbach:  thanks
<dholbach> de rien
<xerxas> to create a page in the wiki, I need to register a user ?
<dholbach> yeah
<xerxas> that will be my ubuntu username ?
<xerxas> "de rien" :)
<dholbach> but on the plus side, it'll be your account for 1) bugzilla, 2) launchpad, 3) the wiki, ...
<dholbach> register once - have fun all the time :)
<xerxas> ok
<ajmitch> and your ubuntu.com email address once you're a member..
<xerxas> si if i created a launchpad account , I already have a wiki account
<dholbach> yep
<xerxas> ajmitch: already dreaming about it :)
<Mithrandir> dholbach: well, make swh-plugins build first, then .
<dholbach> Mithrandir: hm?
<Mithrandir> dholbach: I can't bloody debug the gst-compprep problem when I can't build swh-plugins.
<dholbach> grmbl
<dholbach> i tried a new upstream version of swh-plugins, didnt build either
<xerxas> launchpad is down
<xerxas> sucks
<zakame> indeed
<markuman> just relax and wait xerxas ;-)
<xerxas> markuman:  :)
<dholbach> get cracking on bugzilla.ubuntu.com instead :)
<zakame> dholbach: what else do I need to know about MOTU? =)
<dholbach> you read the MOTU pages on the wiki? asked all your questions already?
<dholbach> :)
<dholbach> zakame: do you have any questzions?
<sistpoty> hm... anyone to look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=620 (the new debian package really *is* a native package... should i fix this?)
<zakame> dholbach: I'm a bit unclear about the adoption of packages...
<dholbach> zakame: that's because we do everything in team maintenance
<dholbach> zakame: but surely respect the areas of experties of other folks
<zakame> dholbach: is this basically `grab an adoption, package it and go find a sponsor'? like debian-mentor's RFA/ITA?
<zakame> dholbach: ah, I see
<dholbach> zakame: if you want to fix a random package in universe, we are all happy to see your fix
<dholbach> we're quite happy with that solution
<dholbach> so we don't have "uploaders:", NMUs, ...
<zakame> dholbach: ah
<dholbach> but sure the Maintainer field (if set by ubuntu folks) indicates a point of contact :)
<dereks_> anyone here use lighttpd instead of apache?
<ajmitch> sleep time, night all
<slomo> gn8 ajmitch
<siretart> sistpoty: I'd say convert it to non native
<siretart> sistpoty: this makes group maintenance easier, the dd will quickly upload a non native version, if he is interested in ubuntu fixes
<sistpoty> siretart: sorry, was afk... i'll do that
<ogra> siretart, but if he isnt... you'll have to care for it for eternity
<sistpoty> ogra: i already did minor changes to the debian package... so we'll have to take care for it during the next merge
<ogra> sistpoty, if you want to do that, fine... i just wanted to poit it out :)
<sistpoty> hehe, i know... that's why i was asking ;)
* sistpoty needs to buy some food now... cya later
<zakame> ei, launchpad is back =)
<markuman> great
<Yagisan> Nalfallo: ping
<Yagisan> Nafallo: ping
<Nafallo> Yagisan: pong
<Yagisan> I'm just trivially backporting the prelink sec fix from breezy
<Nafallo> nice :-)
<Yagisan> do I need a link to something like this http://eyagi.bpa.nu/~jamie/wip/research.html
<Yagisan> (my business website work in progress)
<Nafallo> Yagisan: rather write a good changelog-entry and link the CAN :-)
<Yagisan> there isn't a CAN
<Yagisan> I didn't send it in yet
<Nafallo> oh, yea. something like that then :-)
<Yagisan> no worrys. can you upload to hoary-sec ?
<Nafallo> ehm, take it to the mailinglist I mentioned so pitti can have a word on it. most likely he will be the one that uploads it to.
<Nafallo> he prefer debdiffs :-)
<Yagisan> sure
<Yagisan> I'll get on to it after I put the little one to bed then
<Nafallo> :-)
<sistpoty> re
<zakame> should I put into my wiki.ubuntu.com entry about my previous work with debian packages?
<siretart> zakame: sure. tell us everything about you
<siretart> zakame: the technical board needs to get a picture of you
<zakame> siretart: i see... thanks! =)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sistpoty> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi sistpoty
<zakame> hello
<bddebian> Hello zakame
<Yagisan> good night all
<zakame> good night! =)
<bddebian> Heya \sh
<\sh> re bddebian
<\sh> bddebian: congrats for being admin of tiber ,)
<sistpoty> yeah, congrats ;) (\sh did you add him already?)
<\sh> no
<bddebian> Uhm, I am admin of tiber?
<\sh> will do it after dinner
<sistpoty> ' \sh: ok, you take care of it ;)
<sistpoty> bddebian: yep, we discussed this on motumeeting today ;)
<\sh> sistpoty: explain it to barry please
<\sh> i have a lamacun in my hand
<sistpoty> hehe
<bddebian> I missed MOTU meeting????
<sistpoty> bddebian: to put it short: since tiber is currently only used for revu, we came up with the idea that it might be useful for other motu tasks as well
<bddebian> sistpoty: Cool
<bddebian> How did I miss the fscking meeting?? :'-(
<dholbach> bddebian: and you're in the admin team :)
<\sh> bddebian: today 12UTC
<sistpoty> bddebian: we agreed, that there should be a small admin team to handle all the admin stuff..
<\sh> all over the world...to cover all timezones
<bddebian> \sh: Shit, I missed that part on the Agenda ;-) :-(
<bddebian> So I got "volunteered" since I wasn't there? ;-)
<sistpoty> bddebian: exactly ;)
<\sh> bddebian: ajmitch for .au/asia ,) u for the us and siretart, sistopy, myself for eu ,)
<\sh> bddebian: blame me, friend :)
<\sh> i said, bddebian can do it as well...and if we don't push him, he will say again: "no, i'm a n00b for that"
<sistpoty> yep
<sistpoty> <- not a good admin btw. ;)
<bddebian> \sh: Heh, touche
<\sh> bddebian: and ajmitch said: bddebian has a lot of exp of admin. servers...so
<bddebian> :-)
<\sh> welcome on board dude :)
<bddebian> Remind me to kick ajmitch in the nuts ;-P
<sistpoty> hehe
<\sh> bddebian: kick me :)
<bddebian> \sh: Nah, you're nice to me ;-)
<bddebian> Honestly I'm happy to help, I'm just pissed that I missed the meeting.
<\sh> bddebian: it's not much to do actually...we only wanted to be sure, that we have backups all over
<bddebian> NP
<\sh> so let me smoke a cigarette, let me change to my powerful hp...and i'll grab your gpg key..create the accounts and i'll send u an email encrypted.
<bddebian> Coolio
<bddebian> I think I'll have a smoke too :-)
<\sh> ok..chaging computer
<\sh> bddebian: i need your gpg id pls :)
<bddebian> \sh: 4B394F7E
<\sh> bddebian: 0xC098EFA8 is mine...please add my key
<\sh> bddebian: mail send
<\sh> bddebian: and add a .forward file with your real email address to forward admin mails to you :)
<siretart> \sh: bddebian needs root, yes?
<\sh> siretart: yeah adding the admin group...moment
<bddebian> I still don't even get my @ubuntu.com e-mail :'-(
<\sh> siretart: admin group or direct entry in sudoers...how do u like it?
<siretart> \sh: admin group, I think thats the 'ubuntu' way ;)
<sistpoty> we used admin group so far, iirc
<\sh> I see it...done
<siretart> bddebian: btw, did you already see this: http://revu.tauware.de/cgi-bin/trac.cgi/wiki/Revu1Building
* sistpoty is off for today... cya
<\sh> re lamont
* \sh needs to repair something
<\sh> brb
<dholbach> what happened to all the (HEART) uploads in REVU?
<dholbach> did they get uploaded?
<bddebian> Suffered a massive heart attack ;-P
<siretart> dholbach: Sorry, I don't know
<bddebian> siretart: That URL looks great, thanks :-)
<\sh> bddebian: did u receive my email ?
<bddebian> \sh: Yes thanks but I can't do anything with it here at work :-(
<\sh> ok..write down my gpg keyid ;)
<bddebian> \sh: OH, I imported that already :-)
<\sh> oh ok ;)
<\sh> so u can't ssh ;)
<bddebian> OH, yeah I can ssh, I just can't decrypt the e-mail from here. :-)
<bddebian> Well I guess I could but I'm lazy :-)
<\sh> u imported the key, but u can't decrypt? ,-)
<\sh> copy the mail text ; gpg -d <<EOF
<\sh> paste the mail text
<\sh> EOF
<\sh> voil
<bddebian> I know, that's why I say, I'm lazy ;-P
<\sh> bddebian: hehe
<bddebian> \sh: OK got it, but what am I logging into? ;-)
<\sh> tiber.tauware.de ,-)
<\sh> via ssh ,-)
<bddebian> Ohh
<siretart> revu.tauware.de is CNAME tiber.tauware.de btw
<thesaltydog> siretart, Processing of uploads is done every 5 min. So, if your upload doesn't show up, please contact [MAILTO]  siretart@tauware.de or siretart in #ubuntu-motu
<thesaltydog> siretart, so I am contacting you...
<markuman> someone of you know why there is now a seperate kubuntu forum? or does a user made it?
<siretart> thesaltydog: yes, but i'm quite busy right now
<\sh> which one?
<thesaltydog> siretart, ok. doesn't matter. I have uploaded rubygems. When it is on, I will put a comment..
<\sh> markuman: which one?
<siretart> thesaltydog: yes, it is in ~ftp/incoming/rejected
<thesaltydog> why?
<markuman> \sh: kubuntuforums.net
<siretart> unknown key: A5663FFA
<thesaltydog> it's mine!! I already did other uploads..
<siretart> strange
<thesaltydog> siretart, this is the first upload to the new site.
<\sh> Administrative Contact: Brantley, Zack  zackman@hotpop.com 511 South Elm St. Apt. # 11 Champaign, Illinois 61820 United States (630) 440-7769
<siretart> \sh: do you know how to add keys to revu?
<\sh> siretart: no
<siretart> ah, now I see the page: http://revu.tauware.de/cgi-bin/trac.cgi/wiki/KeyImport
<siretart> \sh: could you please try it?
<siretart> I want to see if that wiki page is sufficient ;)
<\sh> k
<\sh> which key?
<thesaltydog> A5663FFA
<\sh> hmmm...
<Treenaks> We need a way to tell n00bs to create swap partitions
<Treenaks> you don't want to know how many people who did manual resizing don't make swap partitions
<\sh> why doesn't gpg --keyserver wwwkeys.eu.pgp.net --recv-key 0xA5663FFA > bla.key work?
<Treenaks> \sh: because gpg --recv-key imports in the local keyring
<\sh> grmpf
<\sh> its working
<siretart> cool. then the page is indeed usable ;)
<thesaltydog> siretart, should I have to upload again, or it will go by itself?
<siretart> thesaltydog: no need
<\sh> moment
<thesaltydog> what?
<siretart> \sh: if you want to  requeue an upload, just move the .changes file from rejected/ one dir above
<\sh> how do i get an ascii file out of the keyring for a special key
<\sh> siretart: yepp..
<\sh> argl..--armor --export
<\sh> grmpf
<bddebian> I don't get this, anyone have a clue? :
<bddebian>                  from /devel/gnat-gps/gnat-gps-2.1.0/widgets/cschtml/cschtml-embedded.c:25:
<bddebian> /usr/include/gtk-2.0/gdk/gdkcolor.h:30:19: error: cairo.h: No such file or directory
<bddebian> cairo.h is in /usr/include ??
<\sh> siretart: siretart:www-data or www-data:www-data? ,-)
<siretart> siretart: well, it's an ssh checkout
<siretart> argl
<siretart> \sh: well, its an svn checkout, down know how happy svn will be on the next up
<siretart> \sh: I should have checked that out as www-data, right..
<\sh> siretart: doesn't matter...key added, changes moved...now we wait 5 mins
<\sh> and I'm writing a small script to import a key and export it to ascii and add it to revu ,-)
<\sh> I'm a lazy bastar
<\sh> d
<siretart> \sh: that would be very great!
<thesaltydog> \sh, still waiting for you for a visit to St.Peter
<thesaltydog> \sh, with the "pizza"
<\sh> thesaltydog: hehe :) well it will take some time until I have holidays again :)
<thesaltydog> \sh, I am very patient, don't worry...
<thesaltydog> siretart, it's up!
<thesaltydog> thank you, mates, for your kind assistance!
<siretart> thesaltydog: thank \sh, he did such maintenance tasks the first time :)
<thesaltydog> \sh is a meister!
<\sh> siretart: svn url again? svn://revu.tauware.de/trunk/ ?
<siretart> URL: file:///srv/svn/revu
<siretart> or use svn+ssh
<\sh> grmpf
<\sh> wrong permissions for the file version
<siretart> sorry
<siretart> need to go now :(
<bddebian> Later siretart
<siretart> \sh: add yourself to group revu!
<siretart> bye bddebian
<\sh> k
<siretart> happy revu-build'ign ;)
<siretart> ing
<bddebian> heh
* bddebian has no clue wtf he is doing
<\sh> svn: Commit failed (details follow):
<\sh> svn: Can't create directory '/srv/svn/revu/db/transactions/99-1.txn': Permission denied
<\sh> svn: Your commit message was left in a temporary file:
<\sh> svn:    '/home/shermann/revu/revu/scripts/svn-commit.tmp'
<\sh> siretart: gnarf...permissions: siretart:www-data for the svn db ;)
<siretart> \sh: add yourself to group www-data, too ;)
* siretart *away*
<siretart> sorry for the permissions mess. I/we need to rething the groups on tiber
<\sh> siretart: yes I see ,-)
<\sh> done
<\sh> commit
<thesaltydog> \sh time to talk about bluetooth?
<\sh> thesaltydog: not right now..I'm just jumpstarting my other laptop again for testing the new kernel tomorrow
<\sh> at least a new breezy install tomorrow
<\sh> and windows installation is crap
<thesaltydog> \sh, ok. we will discuss another day.
<thesaltydog> \sh, thank you for revu! bye
<\sh> thesaltydog: np
<ivoks> i just noticed netapplet...
<ivoks> um... what does this app lacks when compared to nm-applet?
<ivoks> it looks much nicer and easier to use IMHO
<ivoks> bye for now :) will be back later...
<\sh> hmmm
<\sh> should I take an "request to package" bug and package it?
<\sh> starting to work for debian as well? ,-)
<slomo> \sh: sure... when the package is worth the effort ;)
<ogra> \sh, send it to utnubu-devel
<\sh> ogra: no I mean, walking the way of a DD ,-)
<ogra> heh
<ogra> go ahaead :)
<dereks_> \sh: how easy is ejabberd and openldap (slapd) integration?
<\sh> dereks_: honestly I don't know...I would say easy if you know the ldif format of what ejabberd needs
<\sh> dereks_: but for public servers is ldap a pain in da ***
<dereks_> heh ok
<dereks_> we are considering making an email/im/forum/etc network for my friends and i
<dereks_> and want a unified login
<\sh> dereks_: but for internal things..integration in a already existing directoy..why not
<dereks_> so i figured openldap would be the way to go
<\sh> dereks_: oh...:) nice :) then ldap is state of art
<dereks_> right.... we are just playing around
<dereks_> abusing google
<dereks_> *google ads
<dereks_> to make a revenue
<bddebian> OK damnit, how do I tell this package that cairo.h is in /usr/include/cairo/cairo.h ??
<ogra> shout at it ?
<slomo> bddebian: -I/usr/include/cairo maybe
<bddebian> Heya ivoks
<ivoks> hey
<ivoks> netapplet rulz
<zooko> Funny that gcc-2.95-doc and gcc272-docs docs are in universe, but the corresponding compilers aren't...
<dholbach> zooko: what are their source packages?
* ivoks feels like we are about to loose few -docs :)
<\sh> gcc-2.95
<dholbach> then the binary binary packages ftbfs, the arch-independent packages built
<\sh> apt-get install gcc-2.95 g++-2.95 works for me
<dholbach> "built"
<\sh> The following NEW packages will be installed: cpp-2.95 gcc-2.95
<dholbach> i guess source is there, packages are there, but they don't build anymore
<slomo> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/g/gcc-2.95/2.95.4.ds15-22/
<slomo> yes, everything failed
<dholbach> they might be useful for some guys
<dholbach> so i wouldn't vouch for their removal
<dholbach> although it's a bit braindead
<dholbach> *bit*
<ivoks> BIT :)
<zooko> Oh, for some reason my apt-cache search didn't turn out gcc-2.95...
<\sh> oh no..no fixing of old redhat-ish stuff
<slomo> hmm... they build-depend on themselfes ;)
<ivoks> :))
<zooko> No, I can't apt-get gcc-2.95.
<slomo> should be no problem to compile them with gcc 4.0... someone wants to try? ;)
<dholbach> zooko: which architecture are you on?
<zooko> x86-64
<dholbach> that might be a reason :)
<zooko> Ah.  Duh.
<zooko> Thanks.
<bddebian> grrr gnat-gps is pissing me off
<\sh> Get:1 http://archive.ubuntu.com breezy/universe cpp-2.95 1:2.95.4-22 [114kB] 
<\sh> Get:2 http://archive.ubuntu.com breezy/universe gcc-2.95 1:2.95.4-22 [937kB] 
<\sh> Fetched 1051kB in 3s (348kB/s)
<\sh> (breezy-chroot)shermann@shermann-laptop:~/packages/breezy/clamav$ gcc-2.95 -v
<\sh> Reading specs from /usr/lib/gcc-lib/i386-linux/2.95.4/specs
<slomo> \sh: x86 built at first... but the other architectures failed
<\sh> gcc version 2.95.4 20011002 (Debian prerelease)
<ivoks> ok ok
<\sh> ??
<\sh> I see ghosts?
<ivoks> \sh: no, only cache :)
<slomo> someone just change the build-depends to the plain gcc stuff (without 2.95) and try to build it... it should need a plain ansi c compiler for bootstrapping
<\sh> slomo: trying on ravel
<slomo> \sh: thanks :) otherwise i would try tomorrow afternoon
<ivoks> ahm...
<ivoks> lp and wiki aren't synced
<ivoks> i have two diff usernames
<\sh> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/
<\sh> THE FRIDGE!
<\sh> but pssst
<ivoks> :)
<bddebian> heh
<ivoks> who did this?
<ivoks> :)
<ogra> thats planned since nearly 6 months ;)
<ivoks> can we close 2246?
<ivoks> since acroread works...
<ivoks> and 2297 isn't universe stuff, right?
<ivoks> that's main...
<dereks_> \sh: how easy is it to virtual host on ejabberd?
<dereks_> is it just that one line in the config?
<\sh> dereks_: easy :) just a oneliner
<dereks_> \sh: so i could make a script to allow people to add their domains to my ejabberd server pretty easily
<\sh> dereks_: ?? to add their domains?
<\sh> dereks_: the domains ip must show to your server and your server serves...but they have to implement in their dns servers as well special dns entries
<dereks_> yeah, so my friends and i make an intranet, and say they own their own domain. i can easily make a script for them to make their own virtual server
<Nafallo> \sh: isn't that A-record requirment solved with SRV-records?
<\sh> Nafallo: yes..but SRV records are not supported for some really old shiddy dns servers ;)
<dereks_> Nafallo: i can easily add the appropriate records to a dns server
<Nafallo> dereks_: I just hate to add A-records for domain.name. I rather use host.domain.name :-)
<Nafallo> \sh: baah :-P
<dereks_> :)
<\sh> Nafallo: and it's solved only for those clients who are complying to xmpp 1.0
<\sh> psi isn't solved
<\sh> gaim i don't know
<\sh> gossip isn't solved
<dereks_> \sh: but what i am looking to do is possible right?
<Nafallo> \sh: who cares about those? I use gajim :-).
<\sh> dereks_: well...the problem is only, that for all domains u r creating a new db of users
<\sh> dereks_: leave it to one or two domains
<\sh> maximum 5
<dereks_> \sh: why is that a problem
<\sh> dereks_: u don't want to add other domains to your server :)
<dereks_> \sh: why, i would obviously approve them all
<\sh> dereks_: u have to secure them, if your server shouldn't be hitted by the public
<\sh> securing the vhosts is more difficult then to add
<\sh> after adding a vhost u have to add quite a lot of stuff
<\sh> and...only N admins for all vhosts
<\sh> they're not separated
<\sh> means: admin@domain1 == admin for all vhosts
<_tonio> hi everyone :)
<dereks_> \sh: what do you mean secure?
<\sh> dereks_: default == everybody can connect and create accounts
<dereks_> \sh: true, can't i make admins per vhost?
<dereks_> instead of global?
<\sh> dereks_: no..not in this version in breezy, and I don't think it's possible as well in the "new new new" version
<dereks_> what if i handle all that through ldap?
<dereks_> i am clearly looking into all this before I start...
<\sh> dereks_: even then :)
<dereks_> do any other jabber servers allow admins per vhost instead of global?
<\sh> dereks_: hmm..in what way vhosts admin...
<\sh> ejabberd configuration via web == not possible per vhost as I explained
<\sh> jabberd2 can only have admins per vhost to set MOTDs etc.
<\sh> jabberd1 is quite difficult to setup for vhosting at all...so a nono
<dereks_> i basically just want the vhost admins to be able to add/remove users
<\sh> dereks_: u can set more admins for the whole server...but this is no security or u trust those people, cause they can do whatever they like with the server...even shutting down
<dereks_> hmm, but if i regulate it via openldap i should be fine, right?
<\sh> dereks_: it doesn't have anything to do with ldap..in ldap only the login credentials are stored, eventually the rosters...but the admin jids are in the config file of ejabberd as I remember
<dereks_> \sh: right, so if my ldap directory handles adding and removing of users and allows users to add to their domains, jabberd2 or ejabberd should be able to pick that up
<dereks_> right?
<\sh> dereks_: I think the domains have to be in the config file as well..
<\sh> the ldap is only for the login credentials...actually never played with ejabberd and ldap..*tststs*
<\sh> check ejabberd website..there must be an example
<dereks_> ok
<dereks_> thanks for your help
<\sh> dereks_: /join #ubuntu-im :) so we can talk about it there...
<dereks_> \sh: i think i need a little more research first.... once i start implementing a test box (not on a network) i will talk to you
<dereks_> more
<dereks_> about it
<dereks_> thanks for letting me pick your brain :)
<\sh> dereks_: np
<\sh> hmmm...
<ajmitch> morning
<dsas> morning
<dsas> well, evening, here :)
<\sh> ajmitch: hey
<dsas> as packages are supposed to be source uploads, what happens with python programs? the install script that comes with the program (scribes) compiles the python before moving it to the correct place...would there be any difficulty in packaging this?
<\sh> it's bytecode
<\sh> right?
<\sh> or is it something like python-apt?
<dsas> i presume so - it compiles to pyc files
<ajmitch> that's fine
<\sh> no..no problems....cdbs or dh_python handles this correctly..it's python bytecode...
<ajmitch> we've got lots of stuff that does this with distutils
<dsas> so I'd just need to package the python source and not need to include the install.py file, and ubuntu buildds would automagically make it work?
<shawarma> Er... Is searching b0rken in Malone?
<\sh> shawarma: #launchpad to answer this question..what are u searching?
<shawarma> Well, anything, really. "vpnc" in this particular case.
<\sh> dsas: u have to package the source, means all files nescessary to compile it
<dsas> \sh: ok, I think i've got myself a first project then :)
<\sh> https://launchpad.net/malone/distros/ubuntu?field.searchtext=vpnc&search=Search&advanced=&status=10&status=20&assignee=all
<\sh> -> error...#launchpad
<crimsun> oh boy, new vlc in Sid!
* crimsun sighs and wgets
<crimsun> at least it fixes ppc ftbfs
<shackan> crimsun, just wondering, mantaining two "universes" (debian and ubuntu) duplicates a lot of work, I'm _completely_ ignorant, but what's the point in doing so (copying packages from debian to ubuntu and vice-versa ) ?
<crimsun> shackan: Debian and Ubuntu are very rarely synced
<shackan> and that's a good thing ?
<crimsun> shackan: in terms of package states, that is. The ideal situation, of course, is that packages can be just synced from Debian into Ubuntu (as opposed to merged, which is when you'll see the ubuntuX suffix)
<crimsun> shackan: well no, it's neither a good thing nor a bad thing; it's just how the development cycles differ. Ubuntu can't necessarily use Debian packages unchanged due to differing build dependencies/names and the like
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<bddebian> Thanks for volunteering me in absentia ;-P
<crimsun> shackan: for instance, I can't just ask for a sync for vlc from Sid because there will be arch-specific fixes (amd64 ftbfs)
<shackan> but ubuntu could have gone another way, maybe, like take some debs->package them better->put them back into debian, and we'd have a single, central repo to manage and everyone would be happy, maybe...
<\sh> shawarma: utnubu project is for this...and debian is free to take our changes as well ;)
<crimsun> shackan: we can't do that for the reason I just outlined. We can't mix pools due to differing dependencies.
<crimsun> shackan: for instance, about a year ago Ubuntu transitioned to X.Org. We couldn't have just stuck those packages back into Debian's pool.
<shackan> can't this 'differing dependencies' be worked out ?
<shackan> ok
<\sh> shackan: keybuk and others are working on a "solution to upgrade from sarge to ubuntu"
<\sh> shackan: but this is non-critical and not a top prio
<shackan> I just want to learn packaging, but first I wanted to know why, when time will allow, I will package my software twice, one for debian AND one for ubuntu
<crimsun> no, that's the wrong way to think of it.
<crimsun> always package for Debian and make modifications necessary to make it compile and install on Ubuntu.
<\sh> shackan: if you inject your package into debian, it finally makes the way into ubuntu..or u inject it into ubuntu first, and the utnubu team of debian will take care about your package in ubuntu
<\sh> the latter is the worst way...
<\sh> regarding the debian community
<shackan> \sh, great, I see you work hard, and you rock, but I don't see the point in those deb<->ubuntu transition yet
<shackan> maybe some experience will teach me
<\sh> shackan: debian is our "main delivery agent" for packages...so, a plain sync from debian -> ubuntu is cheaper for us
<\sh> if something is not fitting in the debian package, like unmet build-deps which are not in ubuntu but in debian, or ubuntu has higher versions of special packages, then we have to touch those packages
<shackan> why not put the changes back into debian without forking everything off ?
<\sh> thinking of MOTU team, all team members are, well with some exlusions, all volunteers, and the work you have to do for this touching, you have to calculate this into time, and time is expensive
<\sh> shackan: all our diffs are public...and debian can get them...many of the patches we're doing are reaching as well debian bts
<shackan> I completely understand, but, maybe, this approach will be destructive on the long run...
<\sh> shackan: and also debians upstreams directly.
<crimsun> shackan: it's only destructive if Ubuntu doesn't cooperate with Debian, which will not happen.
<shackan> ok, I tried to mix deb and ubuntu a while ago and messed everything up, maybe(surely) things changed in the last years
<ajmitch> shackan: we can't just push changes into debian where we feel like it
<crimsun> shackan: that's due to dependency skew, like I've been mentioning
<\sh> shackan: problem is, we don't have the time to speak to every debian maintainer, and convince them to take our patches
<shackan> I see
<bddebian> Bah, gotta head home.  Later gang
<ajmitch> shackan: there's > 1000 DDs, and a lot of non-DD maintainers
<\sh> shackan: and sometimes those discussions are long.
<\sh> cu bddebian
<\sh> shackan: so...giving back is one thing, explaining why, is another, and then it's always the package maintainers decision if he takes the changes
<ajmitch> but we have the pressure of getting as much stuff working within our own schedules
<shackan> crimsun, I'm getting the impression this "dependency skew", whatever it may mean, is a serious flaw in ubuntu
<crimsun> shackan: no. it's simply the differing release cycles of Debian vs. Ubuntu.
<\sh> shackan: so..being a team of 25-30 ppl (MOTU) and being responsible for a huge amount of packages...it's quite difficult to send everything to debian..it's easier for us and also for them to grab the patches from ubuntu or s/ubuntu/any other debian based distribution/
<shackan> ajmitch, yes, I've been here for a couple of months and I've seen the pace at which ubuntu goes, very impressive :)
<crimsun> shackan: Would you say that the transition to X.Org in Ubuntu about 8 months ahead of Debian was a flaw?
<shackan> uhm, yes, a flaw in debian this time :D
<crimsun> There's no possible way to push those packages directly into Debian, since Debian's packages would have been incompatibel.
<shackan> ok, I'm starting to get it
<crimsun> incompatible, rather
<\sh> shackan: did u see sabdfls speak at debconf? he explained the interaction between debian and ubuntu quite understandable...even for non-technical people...:)
<ogra> crimsun, nope, thats was fine german :)
<crimsun> ogra :)
<\sh> hehe
<shackan> \sh, sabdfl == Mark the BO$$ ?
<\sh> shackan: sabdfl == Mark Shuttleworth yes
<shackan> uhm, unfortunately not
<\sh> the BO$$ is a favorite singer in the US ;-)
<shackan> haha :D
<ajmitch> shackan: his talk is online
<\sh> http://linux.blogweb.de/archives/64-Marks-Speech-at-DebConf.html
<ajmitch> for all of us who couldn't get to debconf :)
<\sh> I mirrored the video
<shackan> yay, thanks
<shackan> ouch, 200 megs, I'm killing your bandwidth :\
<shackan> no torrents ?
<\sh> shackan: i think I have enough bandwith
<shackan> ok :)
<shackan> since I'm at it, what does the suffix *ubuntu[1-9]  mean ?
<crimsun> those are all Ubuntu-specific changes to Debian packaging
<ajmitch> it's when we make changes
<ajmitch> so that -1ubuntu1 is still less than -2
<\sh> shackan: I made 200GB in 1 1/2  days when I first released this..and my NIC was only half way to 50MB/s
<shackan> so you change something and it becomes -ubuntu1, then you change your changes and it's -ubuntu2, then debian make their own changes, and make another version, at that point you eventually take it back from debian and the walzer starts again ?
<shackan> wow :D
<\sh> shackan: if debian is 1.2.3-1 and we change something then it becomes 1.2.3-1ubuntu1
<\sh> another change on ubuntu packages and it becomes -1ubuntu2
<\sh> a new package in ubuntu but not in debian is -0ubuntu1
<shackan> ok, that's what I said, I'm starting to get your naming convention, thanks
<\sh> so if it hits debian somehow, we can sync in debians package without hassles
<\sh> so last cigarette for today
<shackan> ah, 5m0k3 1s b4D !
<Surak> Hello,
<shackan> but, you all volunteer or someone gets paid from canonical or something ? I mean, I've seen you at work on #ubuntu-devel, you're 24/7 at work before a release
<shackan> kudos to you if it's all 'freiwillig'
<crimsun> most of the MOTUs are volunteers
<ajmitch> nearly all, in fact
<Surak> I did a small package from the conexant module, which was available only to 2.4 kernels. I would like to apply it to ubuntu.
<Surak> the conexant hsf modems does not have free drivers to 2.6 kernels. A guy called Rafael Spinola ported it from the last open source version, and I packaged it to ubuntu/debian. What do I do now?
<\sh> shackan: we have fun working on OSS in general and ubuntu as a distro
<\sh> shackan: and I never saw a bunch of people working so hard and so close as a team then these people here in -motu and in -devel
<Surak> the package source, dsc, etc is at http://laa2.unifacs.br/preview/conexant/
<Surak> Is there any interest of this? The company I work for sells about 1200 of those modems per month. We are shipping it on computers with 2.4 kernels up to now, because the lack of this module.
<Surak> the package builds cleanly with debuild. Haven't tried it yet with pbuilder.
<Surak> anyone?
<ajmitch> Surak: is it distributable? :)
<ajmitch> you said it's from the last open source version, but I can't recall what license that was
<Surak> ajmitch: there are three files which I had to grab from the modem's cd. They are the firmware, and are the same that 2.4 kernels used to ship.
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> *maybe* they can go in multiverse, I don't know
<Surak> not kernels, i mean 2.4 kernel module
#ubuntu-motu 2005-09-28
<\sh> Surak: let elmo know about your package...he can have his "legal" look over it ,-)
<Surak> Thanks
<Surak> What's the best way to contact elmo? A post at ubuntu-devel-list?
<crimsun> e-mail or message on irc
<Surak> Is elmo's name James?
<crimsun> James Troup, yes.
<tseng> yes.
<tseng> oh
<Surak> Hum... sent. Let's wait for him.
<zyga> dholbach: hey :-)
<zyga> I'm getting my key signed tommorow
<zyga> one of debian developers agreed to help
<Surak> \sh: is the process for applying a package for multiverse different than to universe?
<\sh> Surak: no same rules
<\sh> universe/multiverse is motu area :)
<\sh> damn..I wanted to be in bed at this time..
<\sh> but now...
<\sh> good night folks :)
<dsas> good night
<\sh> cu later today :) happy hacking :)
<dsas> i'm off for the land of nod too :)
<Surak> night
<_tonio> stupid question but what will happen to pending for revuing packages while breezy is out ? lost job ?
<hub> dholbach: here?
<dholbach> yep
<bddebian> Holy crap, the new axiom in Debian is 40Mb source.. Sheesh
<hub> for dcraw, 2 question:
<hub> where do I put the reason for new upstream?
<hub> remove dirs make the build fail :-/ is it really not needed or shall I replace it by a .install
<hub> s/.install/something/
<dholbach> hub: ok, 1) talk to us, 2) forget it - i seem to have been wrong :)
<hub> dholbach: I put a comment for the reason
<dholbach> hub: super
<dholbach> hub: for a one-time change, you don't have to change the maintainer field
<dholbach> hub:  only if you REALLY REALLY REALLY want to take care of the package
<dholbach> "for now and for ever" or something
<dholbach> apart from that, i'd approve it
<hub> I don't min maintaining it
<hub> I'm writing a replacement :-)
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> hub: will oyu upload it with a changed maintainer line?
<hub> dholbach: you mean reverting?
<hub> I can do that
<dholbach> ok
<bmonty> hi everyone
<tseng> yay dholbach
<ajmitch> hi bmonty
<tseng> hi ajmitch bmonty
<ajmitch> good evening tseng
<bmonty> hey ajmitch
<dholbach> hi tseng, bmonty, ajmitch :)
<ajmitch> how goes the reviewing, dholbach ?
<dholbach> atm i'm reviewing bugs :)
<dholbach> but yesterday's session was quite ok :)
<tseng> oooh
<tseng> cacti with rrdtool 1.2
<hub> dholbach: just uploaded
<hub> sorry for the delay
<dholbach> hub: don't worry :)
<dholbach> hub: you will need to write     Hubert Figuiere <hub@figuiere.net>   (for both changelog and control file)
<dholbach> hub: erm, i mean name and mail adress
<dholbach> hub: it's late already :)
<jsgotangco> dholbach, working hard eh, you should sleep
<dholbach> jsgotangco: i took a nap some hours ago :)
<jsgotangco> dholbach, nice...
<dholbach> jsgotangco: i helped a friend moving today, that's why i was tired earlier
<dholbach> jsgotangco: she said "it's only the bulky parts" - sure ... we moved most of the flat
<jsgotangco> she!
<dholbach> so? :)
* jsgotangco keeps mum
* tritium grins
<dholbach> it's a girl, i went to school with, 7 years ago, now i met her in berlin again :)
<dholbach> hey tritium :)
<tritium> Hi Daniel :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: ah, we see... :)
<bmonty> grrr....trying to add a simple desktop file and the package fails to compile
<ajmitch> ouch :)
<hub> dholbach: what's wrong with the changelog/control?
<dholbach>  you just list the name
<dholbach> not the mail adress
<hub> ?
<hub> I just checked
<hub> I have both
<dholbach> -Maintainer: Hubert Figuiere
<dholbach> +Maintainer: Steve King
<hub> dholbach: HTML
<hub> dholbach: <> get striped
<hub> :-/
<dholbach> hmhmhmhmhm :)
<hub> REVU bug
<dholbach> sorry for the noise then
<hub> it's ok
<hub> it is late for you
<dholbach> hub: approved, uploaded.
<ajmitch> great
<dholbach> hub: you should write a mail to elmo (wiki.ubuntu.com/Uploads) and get your mail adress whitelisted, so you'll receive ACCEPTED mails from katie
<crimsun> hmm, I'm not sure Ian Jackson meant to version firefox at 1.0.7-0ubuntu15, but who am I to ask? :)
<tseng> sigh
* tseng says nothing at all
<hub> dholbach: ok. thanks a ton
<dholbach> hub: de rien
<dholbach> good night
<Surak> night people
<bddebian> ajmitch: You up?
<chillywilly> openwrt is way too much fun
<chillywilly> let me tell ya
<bddebian> :-)  Heya chillywilly
<chillywilly> hi dude
<ajmitch> bddebian: yes?
<ajmitch> since it's about 3pm, you'd think I'd be awake
<bddebian> Ya never know ;-P
<bddebian> ajmitch: Are you waiting for something for the merges that you took?  I only ask because I'm trying to clear off that list. :-)
<chillywilly> no one pays attention to what time it is in upside down land ;)
<bddebian> chillywilly: ;-)
<chillywilly> ajmitch: I've known you or all these years and I STILL don't know what time it is over there ;)
<ajmitch> bddebian: which ones?
<chillywilly> s/or/for/
<chillywilly> bddebian: my poor Green Bay Packers...they're going to get shallacked this weekend because they suck
<bddebian> ajmitch: boa-constructor, libccrtp, and snacc
<bddebian> chillywilly: Heh
<ajmitch> bddebian: so you have checked the versions before asking me, right?
<bddebian> ajmitch: No since I figure you'd close the bugs :-)
<ajmitch> hah
<bddebian> chillywilly: Tell me why ajmitch hates me :-)
<ajmitch> because you think that everyone hates you
<bddebian> I don't think chillywilly hates me :-)
<bddebian> I don't think marco_g hates me
<ajmitch> new debian versions came in after snacc was dealt with
<ajmitch> I merged in changes that were current when that bug was
<ajmitch> libccrtp is new upstream now
<ajmitch> boa-constructor is done
<bddebian> D00d, you don't have to tell me.  Like I said, I'm just trying to tidy up :-)
<bddebian> Do any work that I CAN do to help
<ajmitch> well I'm at work
<ajmitch> so I don't have time to do stuff like this right now
<bddebian> OK, sorry to bug ya
<chillywilly> bah
<chillywilly> ajmitchie be nice or else! ;)
<chillywilly> I need to sleep
<bddebian> Yeah, I should too
<ajmitch> chillywilly: this is me being nice :P
<bddebian> Well gnight folks
<crimsun> evenin', mike
<tritium> hi Daniel
<lifeless> anyone here work with wxwindows ?
<lifeless> upgrade hoary-breezy bug
<lifeless> j-a-meinel> lifeless: ubuntu fails to upgrade wxpython, because it complains that /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/wxversion.py exists in both versions
<lifeless>                     (which it does, but they should be okay together)
<crimsun> lifeless: I presume since (s)he stated wxwindows that (s)he meant 2.4?
<crimsun> (as opposed to 2.6)
<lifeless> kkhe
<lifeless> uhhm,  let me ask
<ajmitch> fun
<ajmitch> wxversion.py should be in python-wxversion now, which probably needs to Replace wxpython 2.5.3
<crimsun> that would be sensible. Debian doesn't have to worry about it since wxwidgets2.5.3 was ripped out of the archive due to licensing issues.
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> but 2.5.3 was somehow in hoary
<crimsun> we didn't ask for it to be removed in time :/
<ajmitch> hmm
<ajmitch> I don't see wxversion.py in the 2.5.3 deb
<ajmitch> ah no
<ajmitch> -rw-r--r-- root/root     14397 2004-11-13 00:00:07 ./usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/wxversion.py
<ajmitch> in wxpython2.5.3
<ajmitch> I think Conflicts & Replaces is needed there
<siretart> morning
<ajmitch> morning siretart
<siretart> hi ajmitch
<Burgundavia> ajmitch, odd error the start to muine
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: in english, please?
<Burgundavia> ajmitch, ah yes. I speak that
<Burgundavia> ajmitch, normally it just segfaults. What surprised me was that it spat out errors, just a sec
<ajmitch> :)
<ajmitch> ppc? amd64?
<Burgundavia> i386
* ajmitch uses muine daily on i386
<Burgundavia> so did I, until recently
<ajmitch> I don't think I've seen many segfaults in it
<ajmitch> last upload of it was 2 weeks ago
<Burgundavia> this is not recent stuff, but I am trying to debug the error
<ajmitch> ok
<Lathiat> anyone know what the status of all the haskell stuff is?
<ajmitch> needs love
<Lathiat> what kinda love
<ajmitch> package fixing love
<ajmitch> it was mentioned in the motu meeting
<Lathiat> yeh i missed that part, i'll read the backlog
<ajmitch> hi \sh
<\sh> moins :)
<\sh> argl...enhancement for xterm
<Burgundavia> ajmitch, if you see dholbach, can you tell him that sabdfl/the LP team is considering an LP solution to UniverseCandidates
<ajmitch> interesting, where'd you hear that?
<Burgundavia> I proposed it and sabdfl liked it
<Burgundavia> they are going to talk about it at UBZ
<ajmitch> great
<Burgundavia> something that has been trickling through my brain for awhile now
<jsgotangco> ahhh Burgundavia delivers again...
<ajmitch> heh :)
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: we've got a few ideas to propose as well :)
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia is very much our 'ideas' guy at the moment
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia, like a REVU in LP?
<Burgundavia> no
<Burgundavia> for proposing stuff to be packaged
<Burgundavia> think wnpp done right
* Burgundavia would like to be known as the guy who delivers as well
<Burgundavia> ajmitch, https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/RequestingPackages
<Burgundavia> ajmitch, edit at will, it is mostly a brain dump from me right now. I don't really have any idea what you guys need from it
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, ideas are cheap. Code and docs are not
<Burgundavia> you know our wiki is slow when it is slower that Wikipedia (currently the gold standard for driving servers to their death)
<Treenaks> Burgundavia: oh wikipedia took over from slashdot? :)
<ivoks> khm...
<Burgundavia> Treenaks, wp passed slashdot sometime in 2004
<ivoks> apt-file search nvidia.ko - 0 points
<ivoks> nvidia-glx doesn't have that file too
<ivoks> linux-restricted doesn't have it either
<\sh> Burgundavia: is it open to be edited?
<Lathiat> apt-file isn't updated ivoks
<Lathiat> hasn't been for a *long* time
<Lathiat> (e.g. the Contents files
<Lathiat> unless it started workign sometime in the last few weeks anyway
<Burgundavia> \sh, RequestingPackages? go ahead
<Lathiat> ivoks: also
<Lathiat> ivoks: nvidia.ko is built at startup
<Lathiat> ivoks: note /lib/modules/2.6.12-6-386/volatile
<Lathiat> ivoks: theyre linked on boot
<Lathiat> some redistribution thing
<Lathiat> cd /lib/linux-restricted-modules/`uname -r`
<\sh> done
<Burgundavia> \sh, my thoughts about voting are to simply merge it into the actual request
<Burgundavia> thus if someone else requests it, it is simply counted as a vote
<\sh> Burgundavia: well..a nice graphical page to show the users is a good thing sometimes ;)
<Burgundavia> ya
<Burgundavia> the UI will need to be beat out
<\sh> Burgundavia: but how do u know if someelse is requesting the same package? ,-)
<Burgundavia> you don't need to, that is a beauty
<Burgundavia> you just request it, and the system figures it out
<Burgundavia> we can manually merge the typos
<Lathiat> voting on what?
<Burgundavia> Lathiat, people asking for programs to be packaged
<Lathiat> ah
<\sh> Burgundavia: sounds ok to me..but i wanted to add it to the brainstorming :)
<Burgundavia> \sh, yes
* Burgundavia considers an WipeMyArse LP spec
<Burgundavia> or a KitchenSink one
* Lathiat ponders
<Lathiat> i can't find mythmusic on packages.d.o
<\sh> guys u know about the fridge?
<Burgundavia> \sh, yep. Long awaiting, not yet delivered
<\sh> Burgundavia: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/
<Burgundavia> holy shit!!!!
<\sh> Yes, It's Real
<\sh> thank jdub for it ;)
<Treenaks> \sh: whoa!
<jsgotangco> WHOA
* \sh is only the messenger, jdub the messias
<Burgundavia> \sh, can I blog about it>
<Burgundavia> ?
<\sh> Burgundavia: ask jdub :)
<\sh> Burgundavia: I think he wants to improve a little bit before a real public release...but mouth propaganda is ok he said yesterday
<ivoks> y
<ivoks> back
<ivoks> Lathiat: no nvidia.ko on my system any more :)
<Lathiat> ivoks: what was the problem?
<ivoks> Lathiat: nothing... i just did update
<Lathiat> sure
<Lathiat> no l-r-m for 2.6.12-9 yet
<Burgundavia> \sh, does mouth propaganda included blogging?
<ivoks> ah..
<ivoks>  right
<Lathiat> does 'nvidia' break if it can't load the kernel module?
<\sh> Burgundavia: I don't think so :)
<Lathiat> fglrx is kinda nifty in that it still works just you lose 3d
<jsgotangco> whoa fridge has a calendar
<Burgundavia> \sh, nor do I
<Lathiat> iirc nvidia fails to start X
<ivoks> Lathiat: yes, x fails to start
<jsgotangco> Lathiat, yeah
<ivoks> well, no problem..
<Burgundavia> ivoks, is the blackdown stuff ppc and amd64 as well?
<ivoks> Burgundavia: huh?
<ivoks> Burgundavia: i386 afaik
<ivoks> Burgundavia: maybe amd64 too
<Burgundavia> ivoks, ok
<ajmitch> dholbach!
<dholbach> hello!
<dholbach> hey andrew
<\sh> dholbach: moins...
<ajmitch> how are you? :)
<dholbach> hey stephan
<dholbach> fine, thank you :)
<ajmitch> 19:58 < Burgundavia> ajmitch, if you see dholbach, can you tell him that sabdfl/the LP team is considering an LP solution to UniverseCandidates
<ajmitch> https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/RequestingPackages
<dholbach> will read immediately
<ajmitch> I think this is something we discussed at UDU :)
<\sh> morning lamont :)
* ajmitch remembers stuff on the whiteboard about voting
<dholbach> it's imho not a UDU spec
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> but it was part of our expanding universe discussions
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> and we "impletmented" that wiki page
<Tonio-> hi
<ajmitch> the implementation was a little fragile & needs love :)
<dholbach> yeah, i'm perfectly happy with it
<dholbach> Tonio-: sorry for not replying to your mails
<dholbach> Tonio-: i had some quite busy days
<dholbach> Tonio-: nice to have you here :)
<Burgundavia> dholbach, what do you think of the LP idea for UC?
<dholbach> i'm perfectly happy with it
<Burgundavia> sounds good
<dholbach> if it has a comment system, it's all good
<dholbach> let's suppose we have an "ITP" for years and another motu asks, if he ca help with it - or requests for help, ...
<Burgundavia> sabdfl said they would talk about it at UBZ
<dholbach> super
<Tonio-> dholbach: no problem, we all are very busy;)
<Tonio-> dholbach: I have a little question about breezy release....
<dholbach> Tonio-: fire away
<Tonio-> dholbach: what will happen to all pending uploads ? simply lost work or ?
<dholbach> no, it's not lost work
<dholbach> but breezy will be frozen after release
<dholbach> we will only be able to push security/important fixes
<dholbach> so all what remains will be material for dapper
<dholbach> but i will do some review runthroughs and urge other to do the same
<dholbach> there's no point in not getting excellently maintained software in, when we face apt-get.org
* ajmitch will try & dedicate some time to reviews in the next week
<ajmitch> since it's one of the few things I can do :)
<Burgundavia> morning
<Burgundavia> or make that night, I am headed to bed
<dholbach> ajmitch: come of it, you ROCK :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: I mean with my limited time at the moment
<dholbach> ok :)
<Tonio-> dholbach: I should try to get a motu access to validate packages before breezy then....
<dholbach> motu access?
<dholbach> i don't quite understand?
<Tonio-> dholbach: I think to get a login/password you need to have a signed gpgkey no ?
<Tonio-> this is what I call "motu access", not clear sorry ;)
<\sh> Tonio-: for revu?
<Tonio-> yes
<Tonio-> I have eard in the past it was a requirement I think.....
<dholbach> Tonio-: you already can upload to it? and you now want to be able to comment?
<\sh> Tonio-: for becoming a MOTU yes..but for revu? I don't think so
<Tonio-> exactly, to help revuing before breezy's release
<Tonio-> ah.... I just would like to post comments to help ;)
<Tonio-> not necessary become a motu if that's not a requirement ;)
<dholbach> Tonio-: you need to be a MOTU to "approve" packages, but comments are welcome - so if you can help other MOTU hopefuls to get their packages up to scratch, that's cool
<dholbach> and i daresay you should show up at a CC and TB meeting soon, to become a MOTU
<dholbach> you did excellent work on a million packages now
<dholbach> (at least that's how it seemed to me) ;)
<\sh> Tonio-: give me your key id please
<Tonio-> damn pm are blocked ;)
<Tonio-> can you give me your email \sh ?
<\sh> Tonio-: only the id...I need to fetch your key from a keyserver
<Tonio-> C80644C88A303107
<\sh> Tonio-: u uploaded your key to a keyserver?
<Tonio-> dholbach: so a non-motu can advocate but not upload is that correct ?
<Tonio-> yes
<Tonio-> let me tell you....
<\sh> Tonio-: please do a gpg --list-key <your main id> and give me this value: pub   1024D/C098EFA8 2005-03-20
<\sh> so c098efa8 is my key id...I don't find your id on the keyservers
<\sh> Tonio-: no..a non-motu can't advocate
<Tonio-> okay
<Tonio-> \sh: pub   1024D/8A303107 2005-09-17
<ajmitch> sigh, the battery latch for my old laptop is broken
<Tonio-> \sh did you find the key?
<\sh> yeah..moment
<Tonio-> dholbach: a bout pwmanager, you commented that it was okay and uploaded, but I don't find it in universe, is that normal ?
<dholbach> Tonio-: emr
<dholbach> erm
<dholbach> hm
<dholbach> dunno
<ajmitch> did it get on breezy-changes?
<Tonio-> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=316
<dholbach> aparently not
<dholbach> hrm
<dholbach> i will re-upload
<ajmitch> hopefully this wxwidgets fix will work.. but I don't have a hoary box to upgrade from at the moment
<Tonio-> dholbach: ^^ okay
* ajmitch might need to setup a hoary chroot for upgrade testing :)
* dholbach 'll do a quick test build
<ajmitch> I think it's the one area that we've overlooked in testing, is upgrades from hoary
<ajmitch> something to do in the dapper cycle :)
<dholbach> i did two upgrades
<ajmitch> dholbach: for example, installing python-wxgtk2.6 doesn't work if you had wxpython2.5.3 installed
<ajmitch> which I'm fixing now :)
<dholbach> ROCK
<\sh> Tonio-: which is the correct one?
<\sh> pub  1024D/F25E74CD 2005-07-25 Mercatante <anthony.mercatante@laposte.net>
<\sh> sub  1024g/28E2DD3A 2005-07-25
<\sh> pub  1024D/8A303107 2005-09-17 Anthony Mercatante <anthony.mercatante@laposte.net>
<\sh> sub  1024g/6FEB01E7 2005-09-17
<Tonio-> last one
<\sh> eeks..
<Tonio-> pub  1024D/8A303107 2005-09-17 -> correct one
<Tonio-> lost the sub key for the one one due to HDD crash and corrupted backup (no mercy.....)
<ajmitch> ouch
* ajmitch feels like playing with zope3 :)
<Lathiat> so what is zope all about anyway
<ajmitch> pure crack
<Lathiat> like, how does it compare to other things
<Lathiat> say, *nuke, a wiki, rails, django
<Tonio-> Lathiat: it is a CRM
<ajmitch> it does way more
<Tonio-> to refer something well know it can be compared to a kind of phpnuke
<ajmitch> a CRM? why do you say that?
<ajmitch> Tonio-: plone would be closer to phpnuke, rather than zope
<ajmitch> zope is the underlying appserver & framework for building those apps
<Tonio-> ajmitch: I agree, it was to give a very global idea
<Lathiat> plone uses zope right
<ajmitch> launchpad is done on zope, to indicate the levels of crack ;)
<ajmitch> Lathiat: yes
<\sh> grmpf
<Lathiat> right
<\sh> siretart / sistopy: HELP
<ajmitch> \sh: problems?
<Tonio-> Zope is oriented to companies, intranet etc... not especially disigned to websites
<dholbach> Tonio-: done
<Tonio-> dholbach: thanks :)
<dholbach> Tonio-: are you whitelisted on katie already=
<dholbach> ?
<\sh> ajmitch: did u play with the userdatabase of revu? normally, I need to provide  the keyid to the user, and alter the user to reviewer somehow, and he should get his password in encrypted form from the webpage
<ajmitch> well, zope wouldn't be used for any small websites :)
<Lathiat> http://bur.st/~lathiat/cheesetracker.debdiff anyone
<ajmitch> \sh: no, I haven't had a look round tiber yet
<dholbach> Tonio-: if not, could you visit wiki.ubuntu.com/Uploads and write a mail according to get your mail adress whitelisted
<\sh> ajmitch: but somehow this is not working correctly...
<\sh> grmpf..
* ajmitch sits in for a long compile of wx
<\sh> have to wait for siretart...there is a need of explanation ,-)
<ajmitch> :)
<ajmitch> siretart was around 4 hours ago :)
<ajmitch> I wonder if I'll be able to upload to main before breezy release :)
<\sh> wow...
<\sh> siretart is god
<\sh> good even
<ajmitch> haha
<\sh> Tonio-: sorry...no account without a signed key...I have to revoke my statement
* ajmitch will need to write that down on a quotes page :)
<dholbach> Tonio-: where do you live again?
<\sh> gpg: checking the trustdb
<\sh> gpg: no ultimately trusted keys found
<dholbach> sebest, jinty, StrikeForce: hellas! :)
<StrikeForce> dholbach, hi
<sebest> hello!
<dholbach> how are you?
<ajmitch> hi
<StrikeForce> yeah good
<sebest> fine thx
<StrikeForce> ajmitch, hi how are you
<ajmitch> good
<StrikeForce> I upgraded my work computer to breezy :(
<StrikeForce> then I killed it
<ajmitch> sebest: how goes the avahi work?
<StrikeForce> I'm pretty wrapped at how good it looks
<dholbach> you killed it?
<sebest> ajmitch: really well!
<jinty> hoi dholbach
<ajmitch> sebest: panel applet is about ready for a first release?
<StrikeForce> dholbach, yeah
<StrikeForce> I accidentaly deleted something
<StrikeForce> and for some reason I can't download xserver-xorg anymore
<ajmitch> sebest: do you think it'll be ready for breezy?
<sebest> ajmitch: i think it's ready for the most part, i'm working on details
<sebest> ajmitch: for universe i think it will be soon
<\sh> StrikeForce: apt-get install ubuntu-desktop helped me
<ajmitch> I haven't heard back about avahi 0.5 debs from Lathiat, but hopefully we can get an UVF exception for them :)
<StrikeForce> \sh, I tried that
<StrikeForce> \sh, unmet deps
<\sh> StrikeForce: hmmm..u don't have the packages left in your local apt archive?
<ajmitch> sebest: we're running out of time before release :)
<StrikeForce> nope
<StrikeForce> which is got me stumped why I can't re-download them
<sebest> any way i could help?
<ajmitch> sebest: with breezy work?
<dholbach> i never quite understood what avahi was
<ajmitch> dholbach: the shining jewel of breezy's universe ;)
<\sh> StrikeForce: they should be in the archives still...archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/x/xorg/
<sebest> ajmitch: yes
<StrikeForce> \sh, I thought so as well
<ajmitch> dholbach: you know of apple's bonjour (formerly rendezvous)?
<Lathiat> dholbach: network service discovery
<StrikeForce> \sh, wasn't when I checked it
<StrikeForce> \sh, not sure why though
<dholbach> ah ok i see
<\sh> 6.8.2-69?
<ajmitch> sebest: we've still got plenty of packages to fix, to get installable, or just bugfixing
<ajmitch> eg https://launchpad.net/people/motu/+assignedbugs is a list of bugs we've got :)
<StrikeForce> \sh, not sure which version since I'm not at that computer
<StrikeForce> \sh,  it was on my laptop so I'm going in to check it
<\sh> 6.8.2-69 is latest ;)
<StrikeForce> cool
<StrikeForce> well assuming I can download them it should work
<StrikeForce> but it looks very nice
* ajmitch shoul check why sshd has fallen over on his old breezy box :)
<dholbach> Richte avahi-daemon ein (0.4-0ubuntu1) ...
<dholbach>  * Restarting Avahi mDNS/DNS-SD Daemon: avahi-daemon Failed to kill daemon: No such file or directory
<dholbach>  *                                                                                                                                      [ ok ] 
<StrikeForce> ajmitch, same as me
<StrikeForce> hence I can't check it :(
<ogra> dholbach, looks like the lsb-init implementation isnt done right in the initscript
<StrikeForce> lol helps if I remember the ip :(
<Lathiat> dholbach: just means it wasn't running to start with
<dholbach> restarting worked
<dholbach> tough
<StrikeForce> With that package that I uploaded rufus lintian complains that they aren't executible which is fine but I can't figure how to make them executible?
<StrikeForce> dh_fixperms sets them to 644
<ogra> Lathiat, it shouldnt spill an error or should use the lsb-init function for throwing out errors then
<StrikeForce> am I able to change that?
<Lathiat> ogra: well, its not really an error at all i gu ess
<Lathiat> just we aren't supressing that message
<Lathiat> (avahi-daemon -k will be spitting that out)
<ogra> then use the lsb-init warning function
<ogra> or just /dev/null it
<StrikeForce> \sh, after a re-update its found the files again
<Lathiat> well, like i said
<Lathiat> the script doesn't spit it
<Lathiat> so we just nee dto /dev/null it
<ogra> yup
<\sh> StrikeForce: see...everything is working ;)
<StrikeForce> \sh, it looks so nice hey
<siretart> \sh: you had a question before?
<StrikeForce> \sh, any suggestions btw towards that package
<siretart> sry, /me busy here
<StrikeForce> \sh, that question that I had?
<siretart> \sh: ah, about adding users to revu?
<StrikeForce> siretart, I'll have to change the bash script under /usr/bin to redirect it to /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages or whatever it is :( as per the python policy
<siretart> \sh: well, first, I had the idea of adding users by hand.
<StrikeForce> however the python policy states that I'm allowed to not make the files executible as long as the first lines of the python files have /usr/bin/python so I'm not sure but lintian still complains?
<siretart> \sh: now users are added automatically on first upload, password is generated by pwgen(1)
<siretart> StrikeForce: this is strange
<siretart> StrikeForce: perhaps someone in #debian-mentors knows more?
<StrikeForce> yeah
<Tonio-> dholbach: living in paris
<dholbach> Tonio-: WOW
<Tonio-> \sh: okay for the keysigning ;)
<dholbach> i love paris... if only my french was better :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: you'll get to practice some french in montreal :)
<Tonio-> haha, do you talk a bit of french ?
* ajmitch would love to visit europe
<dholbach> Tonio-: i manage to understand it quite nicely i found out, i just read harry potter 1-3 in french :)
<Tonio-> according to me paris is nice to visit, but to live in.......... pain in the ass, to much parisians here ;)
<ajmitch> dholbach: that's pretty good :)
<dholbach> Tonio-: but if i'm supposed to do form french sentences it's a nightmare
* ajmitch would be struggling to understand that much
<dholbach> Tonio-: seb128 said: "did you use some automatic translation? it's barely understanadable" :)
<Tonio-> dholbach: starting now you will onlu get french emails from me, and I expect french response ;)
<dholbach> Tonio-: sure :)
<dholbach> Tonio-: bien sur :)
<\sh> ok...all replys are like this: "Oui"
<Tonio-> you learned me how to package correctly, I will help you in the french understading in return lol
<\sh> "No"
<dholbach> \sh: non :)
<\sh> dholbach: "oui"
<ajmitch> heh
* ajmitch cannot speak/read/write german though :(
<Tonio-> dholbach: do you have the link for this website that gives local contacts for keysigning depending on where you live ?
<Tonio-> I lost the link ;)
<dholbach>     Paris: Pierre Habouzit <madcoder@debian.org>
<dholbach>     Paris: Jean-Michel Kelbert <kelbert@debian.org>
<dholbach>     Paris: Ralf Treinen <treinen@debian.org>
<dholbach> those are debian types
<\sh> dholbach: C'est plus facile  dire qu' faire.
<dholbach> Tonio-: and: http://www.biglumber.com/x/web?qs=paris :)
<\sh> and yes..this was dict.leo.org
<dholbach> \sh: dico.leo.org?
<\sh> dholbach: yepp..they have a french dictionary...
<\sh> http://dict.leo.org/?lp=frde&lang=de&searchLoc=0&cmpType=relaxed&relink=on&sectHdr=on&spellToler=std&search=Was+hast+Du+gesagt%3F
<dholbach> yeah, that's the "dico" part of it
<Tonio-> okay i'll take contact and see what about.... I just hope it'll not be so long to have time to help before breezy....
<dholbach> Tonio-: the deian keys should be good enough
<dholbach> Tonio-: i'm not quite sure you'll be a motu before breezy release
<dholbach> Tonio-: but the good gpg key is a requirement
<Tonio-> okay, I'll take contact today for this and will let you know...
<StrikeForce> siretart: I've been told to ignore the lintian errors for the files not being executible? but I still have to put them in /usr/lib/pythonx.y/site-packages
<siretart> StrikeForce: install a lintian override, then
<StrikeForce> siretart, yeah thats what was suggested
<StrikeForce> can someone point me to how to create a lintian override
<siretart> StrikeForce: look in /usr/share/doc/lintian/*
<StrikeForce> yeah just found it
<StrikeForce> siretart, they all suggested because the patch for rufus is 1 line I don't need to use dh_patch but just edit the source and it'll auto patch it
<StrikeForce> also
<StrikeForce> not re-compile the source but just edit it and go from there
<ogra> StrikeForce, look at the bibshelf package to see how lintian overrides work
<ogra> (its even a funny override ;) )
<xerxas> how do I find a member by it's irc nickname on the wiki or launchpad ?
<StrikeForce> ogra, thanks I'll look at it now
<StrikeForce> ogra, I think I've figured it out however I'll double check
<xerxas> where can I learn stuff on packaging ?
<xerxas> should I use fakeroot ? pbuild ?
<xerxas> what's the syntax of debian/control ... ?
<siretart> xerxas: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
<siretart> xerxas: read the links in section 'new to packaging'
<xerxas> thanks
<xerxas> to become an active memeber, I must subscribe in the launchpad, make my wiki page, and then start working  ?
<xerxas> packaging, translating ... ?
<StrikeForce> ogra, I've followed exactly the same layout as bibshelf however its still not getting rid of the errors?
<StrikeForce> siretart, if you have some time I've uploaded it I'm not saying now but later :)
<StrikeForce> ajmitch, ding
<ajmitch> yes?
<siretart> sry /me busy
<StrikeForce> ajmitch, if you have a few moments rufus will be up on revu if you can look at it :) please
<StrikeForce> siretart, when your not busy :)
<ajmitch> *if* I have a few moments ;)
<StrikeForce> ajmitch, please :)
<havoc> ok, to put ubuntu on my promary workstation today, or not?
<ogra> havoc, its always ok to put ubuntu on workstations :)
<xerxas> :)
<xerxas> does ubuntu provides some debs for firefox extensions ?
<havoc> ogra: not sure if I want to do it *today* though
<ogra> not to my knowledge
<ogra> havoc, why not ?
<havoc> ogra: the downtime
<ogra> ah, ok..
<havoc> (during install and config)
<xerxas> ogra:  <ogra> not to my knowledge
<xerxas> was it for me ?
<havoc> although I have to do it *sometime*
<ajmitch> some extensions are packaged
<dholbach> havoc: on one of the lists, it took somebody 45min to install it
<xerxas> ogra: friefox translations are extensions
<ogra> xerxas, yup
<Tonio-> xerxas: It doesn't provide any extension actually
<ogra> xerxas, ah, ok, these are packaged indeed
<havoc> dholbach: the *install* is the easy part
<dholbach> havoc: what's the *hard* part?
<havoc> it's the restoration of files and configs that's time consuming
<xerxas> is it harmfull to provide firefox extensions as deb ?
<havoc> xerxas: why would you need them as debs?
* havoc is just curious
<xerxas> (and google just got out it's google toolbar for firefox, depending on the license, it might be interesting to package it)
<xerxas> havoc: system wide
<havoc> ah
<havoc> yeah
<xerxas> not really usefull though
<xerxas> debs are easier to install then xpis
<xerxas> apt-cache search myextension ; apt-get install myextensions is faster than googling
<ogra> but you cant install debs as a user
<xerxas> right :)
<havoc> so chillywilly says I should just go right to breezy now
<xerxas> breezy is stable :)
<ajmitch> ogra: there are a few already like tabbrowser extensions :)
<xerxas> breezy works fine for me
<ogra> havoc, i'd be careful, there was a lot breakage today in breezy
<havoc> ack
<ajmitch> unless that's been removed..
<xerxas> mozilla-venkman
<ogra> ajmitch, sure, but i think leaving it up to the user to install other extensions he wants is fine
<xerxas> if I'm correct it's a firefox extension
<xerxas> but providing 2 way to install extension is also fine
<xerxas> isn't it ?
<havoc> what about KDE;  I had heard that it's not part of the main distro?
<dholbach> if you take UBUNTU it doesnt get installed by default, but you can install it afterwards
<StrikeForce> ajmitch, I found some bugs which I've fixed and re-uploaded it :)
<dholbach> if you take KUBUNTU, GNOME doesnt get installed by default (kde does), but you can install it afterwards
<havoc> dholbach: but it *is* packaged?
<dholbach> of course
<havoc> that's fine then
<ogra> havoc, and its in main :)
<havoc> ogra: cool
<xerxas> ubuntu is a distro not a shit :)
<havoc> xerxas: blame chillywilly for the misunderstanding ;)
<xerxas> I won't blame anyone :)
<havoc> I pretty much only use kde, openoffice, galeon, konsole, kontact
<xerxas> galeon  ?
<havoc> gnome web browser
<xerxas> kaleon ?
<havoc> no, galeon
<havoc> http://galeon.sourceforge.net/
<xerxas> I now galeon , but seems strange with konsole, kontact kde
<xerxas> ...
<havoc> xerxas: yeah :)
<xerxas> havoc:  I know galeon , but it's strange
<havoc> I use what I like
<xerxas> and you're right
<havoc> I don't use everything kde/gnome just cuz it's kde/gnome based
<xerxas> I do
<xerxas> with gnome
<xerxas> but I don't use galeon , I use firefox
<havoc> ah
<havoc> I use firefox/thunderbird on win32
<xerxas> I don't use win32 :)
<havoc> so, should I try breezy, or just use hoary?
<havoc> xerxas: consider yourself lucky then ;)
<havoc> I was doing C# development just last month :(
<xerxas> havoc:  you're Havoc Pennington ?
<havoc> nope
<xerxas> we never know :)
<xerxas> havoc:  here , my breezy works fine
<xerxas> I installed it with colony 3 or 4 don't remember
<xerxas> and since i updated
<xerxas> and almost everything works fine
<havoc> *almost* everything?
<xerxas> because I can't say everything
<xerxas> even if I don't see a point
<xerxas> it's unstable
<xerxas> but just works
<havoc> what was the "breakage" that ogra was talking about?
<xerxas> don't know
<ogra> xorg, linux-restricted-modules...
<xerxas> ask him
<xerxas> he is a developper
<xerxas> ogra: xorg isn't much broken anymore , is it ?
<havoc> hmm, xorg seems like pretty major breakage ;)
<ogra> its fixed now, but its broken on the recent CD build
<StrikeForce> ogra, can you have a look at the package in revu?
<xerxas> ogra:  colony 5 ?
<ogra> is it out alerady ?
<xerxas> maybe not
<xerxas> :)
<havoc> so I should use 5.10 "The Breezy Badger" ?
<xerxas> havoc: if you want to be sure it works, to do sage you should install hoary
<ogra> havoc, i'd take the last colony and upgrade...
<xerxas> if you like playing , risk , and have a bit of free time, you can try breezy and make bug reports if it doesn't work
<ogra> havoc, and be careful with that upgrade...
<havoc> ogra: so ubuntu-5.10-preview-install-i386.iso and then upgrade?
<ogra> wasnt there a colony after preview ?
<ogra> if not, then that...
<Surak> havoc: there are daily builds.
<havoc> what is a "colony"?
<havoc> Surak: ah
<ogra> another indicator for a good daily is to look at the report.html file in the doenload dir
<Surak> I download the live build every day.
<xerxas> someone uses rhythmbox here ?
<havoc> where are the daily builds?
<Surak> havoc: at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/
<havoc> thanx
<havoc> Surak: so today's daily is good?
* havoc reads report.html in the meantime
<ogra> havoc, if its empty the build should be fine
<Surak> havoc: hum, I can tell you in about one hour, it's the time I'll be working :-)
<havoc> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/report.html
<havoc> looks ok I guess
<havoc> Surak: ah
<havoc> well, I still have another linux server and a winxp box here I can use
<Surak> There were issues with libart these days. I don't know if someone reported it.
<havoc> *if* this goes badly
<xerxas> rhythmbox 0.9 doesn't support vfs anymore ?
<havoc> what is libart for?
<havoc> isn't libarts sounds stuff for kde?
<Surak> havoc: no, thats arts
<havoc> right, so what's libart?
<Surak> havoc: libart is a superset of postscript. it's used for the gnome-canvas
<havoc> ah, no probs for me then since I'll be using KDE :)
<havoc> ok, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/breezy-install-i386.iso it is then
<Surak> havoc: I don't know if kde uses it. Don't use kde since 1.x :-)
<havoc> Surak: heh, big changes since 1.x ;)
<Surak> havoc: yes, this one or the live are ok. I prefer live, I can see if it's ok before I install. By the way, I did a installer for live.
<havoc> cool
<havoc> I set up a debian server yesterday too :)
<havoc> (1st one of *mine*)
<havoc> moving away from mandrake/redhat/rpm based systems
<Lathiat> nifty
<havoc> I;ve been meaning to do it for a while now, but it takes time :(
<StrikeForce> I still haven't on my servers
<StrikeForce> I'll be doing it on my backup server slowly
<StrikeForce> just want to wait till I upgrade it then I've got 2 sets of hardrives
<StrikeForce> If anyone wants to REVU rufus please do :)
<dholbach> ajmitch: still there?
<ajmitch> sort of
<dholbach> anyone else familiar with grep-dctrl
<dholbach> ah super
<ajmitch> :)
<dholbach> i can't seem to use the --not operator properly
<dholbach> i want packages that depend on xlibs but not on libx11-6
<ajmitch> ok..
<ajmitch> pass the output through grep -v then
<ajmitch> this doesn't work..?
<ajmitch>  grep-dctrl -FDepends xlibs < /var/lib/apt/lists/10.18.1.1\:9999_ubuntu_dists_breezy_universe_binary-i386_Packages | grep-dctrl --not -FDepends libx11-6
<Mithrandir> grep-dctrl -F Depends  xlibs --and --not libx11-6 /var/lib/apt/lists/archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_breezy_main_binary-i386_Packages seems to work for me
<ajmitch> or your equivalant..
<ajmitch> ah
<ogra> like tcpdump :)
<ajmitch> makes sense
<ogra> just more dashs
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> anyway, really time for me to sleep :)
<havoc> night night
<StrikeForce> night mate
<dholbach> bye ajmitch
<dholbach> sleep tight
<StrikeForce> well time to upgrade to breezy on my main comp :)
<havoc> 15min till brezzy :)
<jaldhar> 16 minutes till dapper? :-)
<havoc> 'dapper'?
<jaldhar> dapper drake is the next release after breezy badger
<havoc> ah
<havoc> don't think I wanna try that just yet ;)
<ogra> you cant there is no dapper yet
<havoc> then there is no problem :)
<StrikeForce> 15 mins till dapper?
<StrikeForce> I would have thought that would start after breezy is officially released or soon after
<Nafallo> StrikeForce: no. 21 days+
<Nafallo> and breezy is 19 days :-)
<StrikeForce> so there is a break :P
<ogra> there is UBZ :)
<StrikeForce> UBZ?
<ogra> the conference
<StrikeForce> ahh k
<Treenaks> wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBelowZero
<jaldhar> I finally got around to installing breezy on my laptop so I should start working for MOTU membership now
* Treenaks can't wait :)
<ogra> Treenaks, :)
<StrikeForce> I'd like to get membership although I've got a long while to go yet
<dholbach> jaldhar: that's excellent news
<jaldhar> why thankyou Treenaks.  Oh you were talking about the conference
<dholbach> jaldhar: you can help us to fix up universe for the release - YAY!
<Treenaks> 42!
<jaldhar> dholbach: I was mainly planning to maintain the packages I already maintain for Debian but if I can help in other ways, I'll try.
<dholbach> super
<StrikeForce> dholbach, is there much wrong with universe
<dholbach> StrikeForce: we have a couple of lists with br0ken packages, they should all be linked on MOTUTodo
<dholbach> (along with the bugs in malone)
<StrikeForce> ok I'll have a look as well
<dholbach> the test-rebuild of the whole archive is still running, but i suspect, we'll get some work from there too
<bddebian> Heya gang
<dholbach> hey barry
<shawarma> Hi, bddebian!
<bddebian> Hello Daniel, shawarma
<slomo> shawarma: good work with the mms stuff :)
<slomo> hi bddebian
<dholbach> sebastian!
<shawarma> slomo: Thank you!
<bddebian> Heya slomo
<bddebian> OK what time is it in New Zealand? :-)
<slomo> somewhere in the middle of the night probably ;) i would say maybe 5:00 am
<desplesda> it's around 00:28
<bddebian> Ah thx
<bddebian> Hmm, I hate being like partially finished in a bunch of tasks.. :-(
<Yagisan> no, it should be 1:30am in NZ
<desplesda> Yagisan:  i did say *around* 00:30 :D
<Yagisan> (its 11:30pm in Sydney so I just add 2 hours)
<bddebian> So anyone an AC_SUBST(FOO) expert? :-)
<shawarma> Yagisan: There's two hours difference between Oz and Kiwiland? I thought they were right next to each other..
<desplesda> shawarma:  separated by a big bit of water, yes :P
<slomo> bddebian: what problem? ;)
<shawarma> desplesda: And yet they're two hours apart? Odd.
<bddebian> slomo: I still can't get gnat-gps to find cairo.h which is in /usr/include/cairo/ not /usr/include
<zyga> dholbach: after signing the key is --send-keys  all that I have to do?
<dholbach> zyga: sounds good, yes
<slomo> bddebian: want a hack or a solution? ;)
<dholbach> zyga: does it get uploaded?
<dholbach> bddebian: did you try to change configure.ac?
<dholbach> bddebian: and the  Makefile.am s?
<zyga> dholbach: beats me
<zyga> dholbach: subkeys.pgp.net, B3020F9C
<Yagisan> shawarma: well it is a few timezones (depends on where you are, daylight saying etc)
<dholbach> zyga: it beats you?
<dholbach> zyga: it doesnt work?
<bddebian> dholbach: It's not an autoconf package
<bddebian> slomo: A solution of course ;-)
<zyga> dholbach: sorry I need to go now - bbl
<slomo> bddebian: well... AC_SUBST(FOO) is autofoo stuff ;)
<dholbach> zyga: see you
<bddebian> slomo: I know, that's why I was a little suprised he had be do it
<slomo> bddebian: but... when it's no autofoo... just add -I/usr/include/cairo or `pkg-config --cflags cairo` to the CFLAGS in the relevant makefile
<bddebian> Hmm, OK, I'll try that thanks slomo
<slomo> bddebian: but i'll take a look at that package now ;) AC_SUBST and no autofoo sounds interesting
<bddebian> slomo: Oh sure, steal my "glory" ;-P
<slomo> bddebian: don't worry... just a look :) and it is autofoo :P you have configure.in and a bunch of Makefile.am
<bddebian> Well there is configure.in but no Makefile.am
<slomo> i cound 41 Makefile.am in the whole sourcetree
<slomo> but toplevel is none... correct
<bddebian> Oh, hmm
<bddebian> It's the gdk stuff that looks for cairo.h
<slomo> hm, gnat seems to be interesting ;) C and ADA IDE ;)
<slomo> bddebian: where?
<bddebian> slomo: In the source I don't know but that's where it errors on build
<xerxas> I'm a new member and want to regenerate a package with a dependancy change.
<xerxas> I made it work on my computer
<xerxas> but I didn't change the version and didn't upload it
<xerxas> how should I process ?
<bddebian> xerxas: Do you have upload rights?
<xerxas> bddebian: don't think so
<xerxas> don't know , but there is no reason I have it
<slomo> bddebian: what header file includes cairo.h? gdk.h or gtk.h?
<bddebian> xerxas: Then the best thing is probably to either post it to one of the wiki pages or bug one of us MOTUs :-)
<bddebian> slomo: It comes in from one of the gdk headers
<bddebian> Hang on I'll get it
<xerxas> bddebian: I repacakged xchat-systray which is a plugin for xchat
<xerxas> it also works on xchat-gnome
<xerxas> but xchat-gnome don't provide xchat
<bddebian> xerxas: Was it just a dependency change?
<xerxas> yep
<bddebian> For a build failure or just for the additional functionality?
<xerxas> additional functionality
<slomo> bddebian: try the following...
<bddebian> xerxas: In that case, I hate to say this but you are probably best off posting a wishlist bug on Malone
<slomo> bddebian: add CFLAGS="-I/usr/include/cairo" before the configure call in debian/rules
<slomo> bddebian: (same line... CFLAGS="...." ./configure.....)
<xerxas> bddebian: why so ?
<xerxas> and upload my package ?
<bddebian> In file included from /usr/include/gtk-2.0/gdk/gdkcairo.h:23,
<bddebian>                  from /usr/include/gtk-2.0/gdk/gdk.h:30,
<bddebian>                  from /usr/include/gtk-2.0/gtk/gtk.h:31,
<bddebian>                  from /devel/gnat-gps/gnat-gps-2.1.0/widgets/cschtml/cschtml-embedded.h:26,
<bddebian>                  from /devel/gnat-gps/gnat-gps-2.1.0/widgets/cschtml/cschtml-embedded.c:25:
<bddebian> /usr/include/gtk-2.0/gdk/gdkcolor.h:30:19: error: cairo.h: No such file or directory
<slomo> bddebian: try if the error disappears that way... it's just a bloody hack but should work ;)
<bddebian> xerxas: Just attach a debdiff along with the bug report.  I say a bug report is probably better only because it affects other users and someone smarter than me can make that determination :-)
<slomo> and requires no patching
<slomo> bddebian: works?
<xerxas> bddebian: how do I use debdiff ?
<dereks_> http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Gnome
<dereks_> i thought that was funny
<Yagisan> debdiff old.dsc new.dsc > outfile.debdiff
<bddebian> slomo: No worky :-(
<slomo> bddebian: ?
<chillywi1ly> why is there a firefox 1.0.7 in the archive?
<xerxas> Yagisan: thanks
<bddebian> slomo: Still didn't build :-(
<bddebian> bbiab
<slomo> bddebian: hmm, i'll take a look tomorrow maybe... to tired atm
<xerxas> what are you trying to build ?
<Nafallo> chillywi1ly: well... what is the usual arguments for breaking UVF? ;-)
<chillywi1ly> UVF?
<chillywi1ly> I was just curious because there's is no 1.0.7 release on mozilla.org...AFAICT
<Nafallo> chillywi1ly: yes, upstream version freeze. in effect since july IIRC.
<chillywi1ly> oh, yea there is
<bddebian> slomo: NP, thx
<chillywi1ly> security fix
<chillywi1ly> nevermind then :)
<xerxas> bddebian: where is malone ?
<xerxas> it's in my launchpad ?
<ogra> yup
<bddebian> xerxas: Yes
<bddebian> xerxas: Oh and I'm trying to build gnat-gps
<xerxas> gnat is ada stuff ?
<xerxas> ada compiler ?
<bddebian> Yep
<slomo> and this seems to be an IDE ;)
<xerxas> I can't attach a debdiff patch to a bug ?
<xerxas> it must be in the description ?
<bddebian> xerxas: No, I believe there should be an attach option?
<StrikeForce> beautiful qdvdauthor is in revu
<StrikeForce> marillat has uploaded it
<xerxas> bddebian: found it :)
<xerxas> thanks
<xerxas> reported
<slomo> StrikeForce: marillat doesn't have upload rights for ubuntu ;)
<StrikeForce> sladen, marillat@debian.org ?
<StrikeForce> same person?
<StrikeForce> slomo, woops
<slomo> StrikeForce: was just synced probably
<StrikeForce> slomo: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=617
<StrikeForce> I'm just happy thats all :)
<slomo> yes, synced from marillat's repository =)
<slomo> i wonder why this is on revu
<StrikeForce> don't know
<slomo> ok, anyway... it is there :)
<StrikeForce> yeah good I've wanted it for awhile now
<StrikeForce> but could never get it to compile
<StrikeForce> now if I could just get xvidcap in there I'd be happy :)
<bddebian> xerxas: Thanks, I'll try to take a look at it
<ivoks> hellou
* ivoks is spreading ubuntu :)
<ogra> bah
<ogra> spread edubuntu !
<ivoks> ogra: hi
<ogra> hi ;)
<ivoks> ogra: will do, next release
<ogra> heh
<Surak> :-)
<ogra> you dont trust my skills eh ?
<ogra> :)
<ivoks> i hope i would be able to help you with next one
<ogra> would be cool
<ogra> i'd love to not build it as one man show
<ivoks> ogra: no, but it doesn't have some things i would love to see
<ogra> ??
<ivoks> ldap for one :)
<ogra> yup thats a dapper feature
<ivoks> i know
<ivoks> now i'm just teasing employes here to try ubuntu
<ivoks> 2 allready said they will :)
<ogra> GO !
<ivoks> we have a great thing here...
<ivoks> only our 20050923 snapshot is broken :)
<ivoks> i should've know that :/
<bddebian> Heya ivoks
<ivoks> hey bddebian
<ogra> ivoks, thats what the report.html file in the download dir is for ;)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> i'm MOTU, i don't read reports.htmls :)
<ivoks> i realy on my instinct :)))
<Surak> :-D
<ivoks> omg!
<ivoks> i just locked root's password
<ivoks> and... i didn't put user in admin group :/
<Surak> this is because you rely on your instinct :-)
<ivoks> easy to fix, but... eh..
<ivoks> installer died in the middle of instalation
<ivoks> so i had to do it by hand to the end
<ivoks> no problem..
<ivoks> nada: zdravo :)
<nada> zdravo :)
<nada> inace, ja nisam nada.
<ivoks> speek english only, please
<nada> soory
<nada> sorry
<ivoks> np, everybody should understand us, so... it's unpolite :)
<nada> ok
<nada> I'm just setting up the computer for my friend
* ivoks had few drinks, since he passed one exam today :)
<StrikeForce> grats ivoks
<ivoks> thanks
<bddebian> w00t, congrats ivoks
<StrikeForce> how many more you got?
<ivoks> StrikeForce: let's change subject :)
<StrikeForce> lol fair enough
<ivoks> we have different system for exams..
<StrikeForce> ahh fair enough
<ivoks> we have to pass 7-8 exams every year to be able to listen next year
<StrikeForce> yeah thats the same as us
<Surak> nada: ivoks: what language is that? never heard it
<ivoks> Surak: croatian
<StrikeForce> we have 4 subjects per semester and exams either through the semester or at the end of each semester
<ivoks> we too
<ivoks> but we have 8 per semester :/
<StrikeForce> ouch
<ivoks> or 6
<ivoks> depends on semester
<StrikeForce> is it specific to the course you are doing or is that generic
<sistpoty> hi folks
<ivoks> i think it's generic
<StrikeForce> ahh k we have that if you are studying law, medicine and or pharmacy and a few others
<ivoks> medicine has it different
<StrikeForce> but simple degrees like business, finance, accounting and things like that you only need to do 4
<ivoks> nada: do you have problems setting up your friends computer?
<ivoks> 4 semesters?
<StrikeForce> 4 subjects per semester
<ivoks> ah...
<StrikeForce> and major exam per subject
<ivoks> i'm on civil engeeniring...
<StrikeForce> 1* goes int here
<StrikeForce> ahh yeah
<StrikeForce> I used to study Mechanical
<ivoks> if only i knew it would be so hard...
<StrikeForce> gave up after I had to go through thermodynamics
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> i have hydrodynamics :)
<StrikeForce> I would definately fail all of htat
<ivoks> we can fail 3 times
<StrikeForce> my lecturer decided to dervice formulas and expect us to do the same thing :(
<StrikeForce> we can only fail 1 times then we have to explain why they should let us back
<ivoks> :)
<StrikeForce> same for the 2nd time then 3rd time you have no more excuses
<ivoks> we do that if we fail 4. :)
<StrikeForce> it doesn't have to be the same subject its any subjects :(
<StrikeForce> hence I gave up
<StrikeForce> went on to accounting and finance
<StrikeForce> a lot easier
<ivoks> we are applying that model starting this year
<StrikeForce> yeah pretty hard
<ivoks> lucky me, that doesn't count for me :)
<StrikeForce> definately not fun
<ivoks> i'm still... old school :)
<StrikeForce> your lucky then
<ivoks> yeah, but we have hard exams...
<StrikeForce> can anyone tell me what version the nvidia driver is in ubuntu?
<ivoks> one mistake and you fail
<StrikeForce> ivoks, I think everyone does
<ivoks> but i guess you don't do exam 3,5 hours and than fail cause of one single mistake
<StrikeForce> yeah thats true
<ivoks> eh... you see :)
<sistpoty> StrikeForce: nvidia-glx: 7667
<StrikeForce> we have 3-4 hour exams but we have 4 questions
<StrikeForce> each worth 25% each most of the time
<StrikeForce> sorry we have 6 questions but we can pick any four
<StrikeForce> sistpoty, thanks thats what I wanted I dont' have to build it from source :)
<ivoks> so as we, but for example, question 1 and 3 are must-have, no mather how good 2 and 4 are
<StrikeForce> ahh yeah don't think we have that although I haven't done it in awhile
<ivoks> if you do mistake in 1 question, you fail
<StrikeForce> they seem to want to make you suffer through university which is wierd?
<ivoks> even if you did good all other questions
<StrikeForce> yeah thats very different
<ivoks> StrikeForce: well, when you look at it...
<ivoks> we are going to build buildings
<ivoks> and we are going to be responsable for that buildings
<StrikeForce> ivoks, yeah thats true but its not going to be just one person building them.  There are checks and balances along the way
<ivoks> i know...
<ivoks> well, some teachers really look like their only job is to make you suffer
<StrikeForce> yeah dont' we have at least 1 of them :(
<ivoks> on my faculty you have people that went crazy... :/
<StrikeForce> thats not good ;(
<ivoks> s/you/few
<ivoks> 300 of us was on first year
<ivoks> now... maybe 15 on last...
<StrikeForce> yeah thats about the same as us
<ivoks> avragge is 7-8 years
<ivoks> to finish it..
<StrikeForce> really
<ivoks> avrrage
<ivoks> or whatever :)
<StrikeForce> ours is 4 - 5 years
<ivoks> we can listen same year few times
<Surak> I got into university with 150 more people. 8 graduated.
<StrikeForce> ahh fair enough
<ivoks> couse most people can't do all those exams in time
<StrikeForce> bloody hell
<StrikeForce> yeah sounds bloody hard
<ivoks> to get in 2 year, you have to pass on 8 exams
<Surak> only three in the minimum time :-)
<ivoks> if you do that, you are brining 2-4 exams from first year
<StrikeForce> yeah
<StrikeForce> so they group up?
<ivoks> and on top of that you have to give another 8 exams from 2 year to get to 3rd
<ivoks> so you can see The Hell :)
<StrikeForce> oh really you can't do it at your own pace
<ivoks> it's worse than dependency hell in debian :)
<StrikeForce> as long as we do a minimum of 2-3 subjects per semester we are considered full time and we get assistance from the governement
<StrikeForce> lol so true ivoks
<ivoks> oh..
<ivoks> that's great
<StrikeForce> our government give us loans to study at university
<ivoks> well...
<ivoks> we have free study
<StrikeForce> the interest rate is the CPI index which is only 2.5-3.5 % atm which is pretty good
<ivoks> for 5 years
<ivoks> then they too give up on us :)
<Surak> StrikeForce: where do you live?
<Yagisan> Australia
<StrikeForce> ivoks, we used to except government decided to change that
<StrikeForce> yeah Australia
<havoc> does everyone ehre run gnome, or do some run kde?
<Yagisan> he's talinkg about hecs
<Yagisan> talking
<StrikeForce> I used to run kde havoc but I had issues
<StrikeForce> Yagisan, yup
* Yagisan doesn't like his hecs bill
<StrikeForce> Yagisan, how big is it?
<StrikeForce> I had mine at about 20k
<Yagisan> StrikeForce: two semesters so far, but they failed me because I proved the teacher was an idiot so I have to do it again
<StrikeForce> someone else I know had theirs at about 60 k
<Yagisan> :(
<StrikeForce> Yagisan, :( gotta love Australian lecturers
<StrikeForce> yeah I just agree with them cause then they pass you :)
<Yagisan> I don't care if they are the lecturer - I run the business - I am in the marketplace - this is how it works in the real world
<Yagisan> lecturer (who has never been in the real world) I don't like you - fail
<StrikeForce> Yagisan, oh yeah I agree but unfortunately you are in their world and thats how they want it to work
<StrikeForce> what do they say if you can't do it in the real world you may as well teach it
<Yagisan> if I paid up front I could get away with anything
<havoc> ok, workstation is backed up
<havoc> now to install brezzy
<StrikeForce> you reckon that makes a difference Yagisan ?
<Yagisan> well - we proved the full-fee peaying O/S student was cheating (he got his assignment from google groups)
<Yagisan> and he was passed - an me failed
<Yagisan> :(
<StrikeForce> Yagisan, why didn't you bring it up with the Dean?
<Yagisan> the head teacher ?
<StrikeForce> yeah
<Yagisan> he's the one that passed the cheat and failed me
<StrikeForce> the school head then if something doesn't happen then the overall head
* Yagisan will wipe my arse with my degree when it's done
<StrikeForce> lol
<StrikeForce> what are you studying?
<Yagisan> Bachelor of Information Technology at CSU via distance
<Surak> Yagisan: keep a copy, just for proving for people :-)
<StrikeForce> ahh yeah fair enough
<StrikeForce> Surak, yeah take a photocopy at least
<StrikeForce> but you already work out in the real world anyway don't you Yagisan ?
<Yagisan> we'll I'm the boss now - I don't *need* it
<StrikeForce> Yagisan, same as me :)
<Yagisan> but clients would like me to have it
<StrikeForce> yeah just adds to it
<StrikeForce> clients only care about it while you are a small to medium business then its completly a different set of rules
<StrikeForce> interesting just found a bug in my upgrade
<Yagisan> StrikeForce: I *am* a small to medium business.
* Yagisan is happy today
<StrikeForce> Yagisan, thats what i mean.  The degree matters
<Yagisan> prelink sec fix was accepted
<StrikeForce> brb
<StrikeForce> gotta reboot for new kernel and hopefully some fixes
<havoc> ack
<havoc> linux-386 can't be installed
<havoc> that's not good
<havoc> ok, so don't use today's build if you have x86
<havoc> ok, I guess I'll download the preview release then
<chillywilly> I think the ati xorg drivers has some issues..I just switched to fglrx and I don't have any problems (3D stuff was locking things up)
<bddebian> Damn axiom takes FOREVER to build
<bddebian> tseng: You around?
<shadoi> Hello, I currently maintain the e17 debian packages.  Is anyone interested in including them with ubuntu officially?  Should I put the effort into building them for dapper, or hoary?
<zyga> shadoi: I know that users would be interested
<zyga> shadoi: and building them on breezy and breezy + 1 would be very useful
<shadoi> Yes, I see that from the forums.  :)
<ogra> shadoi, you dont mean the 20 netive packages i can et from a external ressource but real debian packages in debian ?
<ogra> *native
<zyga> ogra: ?
<shadoi> ogra: I haven't gone through the debian developer process yet.  But I may if I can get someone to sponsor me.  :)
<vrln> ogra: it's those packages I told you about last week
<vrln> ogra: the ones hosted on soulmachine.net
<ogra> shadoi, can you repack them non native (with a orig.tar.gz and a diff.gz ?)
<vrln> if you still remember
<shadoi> My repository is here: http://soulmachine.net/debian/unstable
<shadoi> ogra: they're there.
<ogra> #yup these are the ones i talk about
<ogra> ionly see native packages
<zyga> hmmm
<zyga> is having a native packagea bad thing?
<ogra> yup
<slomo> and we already have imlib2 packages iirc
<ogra> you need to upload the whole package if you made a one line change
<shadoi> ohh.. I know what you mean now.
<shadoi> I suppose I can build them that way.
<ogra> thats quite odd with 50MB source packages like e17
<zyga> ogra: and you don't need to upgrade the whole package on non-native packages? did I miss something
<ogra> shadoi, can you make it during the next eek ? we are very near release
<ogra> *week
<shadoi> ogra: I may be able to work on it this sunday.
<zyga> ogra: while we're at it ;-)
<ogra> zyga, for a non native package i dont need to upload the orig.tar.gz, only the diff.gz with the one line change
<zyga> ogra: could you sponsor my small package into universe?
<slomo> hm, our imlib2 packages are even in main... shadoi: try to use them instead of yours when possible
<slomo> zyga: upload it to revu
<zyga> ogra: I understand now, it's for the backstage stuff, not the user's point of view
<shadoi> slomo: ok
<zyga> hmm I guess I could since I got my key signed today
<shadoi> slomo: it was outdated for a while
<shadoi> that's the only reason I was building it.
<\sh> slomo: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUIM/DesktopIntegrationSIPIM -> go correct errors ,-)
<slomo> shadoi: the package in main is 1.2.0
<slomo> \sh: when i finished eating... :P
<shadoi> slomo: yeah 1.2.1 is in CVS.
<ogra> shadoi, make them non native, make sure they build with our available packages and dont introduce any breakage for other package, then we can include them, i'll happily vouch for inclusion if the packaging is right
<ogra> note that packages in main wont change or recieve upgrades at this point in the release cycle
<shadoi> ogra: ok, I'll setup breezy this weekend and build them.
<ogra> (only bug fixes)
<ogra> so if you cant make it work with imlib2 1.2.0, we chant help
<ogra> cant even
<shadoi> yeah I think it'll work.
<slomo> shadoi: notify me when your packages seem to be ready and i'll take a look too... so when everything is right you already have your two needed votes ;)
<shadoi> slomo: cool :)
<ogra> shadoi, and mak sure they are lintian clean, that speeds up stuff a lot ;)
<shadoi> ogra: so I just need to do a debian version increase, ie add -2 to the version and dpkg-buildpackage will automatically do a diff right?
<shadoi> ogra: yeah, they currently have debugging enabled and lots of other things I'll clean up.
<ogra> you need to have a orig.tar.gz available at source package build time, the dpgk will produce a diff.gz additionally ...
<ogra> s/the/then
<havoc> ok, installing 5.10 now
<sistpoty> havoc: you have 5.10 already??? ;)
<chillywilly> the preview release most likely
<havoc> sistpoty: I have 6Mbps downstream
<sistpoty> wow
<havoc> yeah, preview
<sistpoty> hehe
<Nafallo> 6Mbps can download from the future. wow.
<havoc> heheh
<Nafallo> I wonder what I can do with my 24Mbps when I get that :-P
<sistpoty> dl from _far_ future?
<havoc> I thought sistpoty meant that it had finished downloading already
<\sh> sistpoty: hey dude...we have to add one more role for revu ;)
<havoc> hopefully the preview release can at least install the kernel
<sistpoty> hi \sh.. what do you mean?
<StrikeForce> well that took way to long
<StrikeForce> got 2-3 bug reports from the install
<\sh> sistpoty: the uploaders doesn't have the rights to login, when I saw it right...
<StrikeForce> hey does anyone know what the situation with hal is?
<StrikeForce> everytime I shutdown I get an error message with hal saying it hasn't shutdown?
<sistpoty> ' \sh: uploaders may log in... but comment only on their on stuff... this will change with revu2
<\sh> sistpoty: ok..can we build it into revu1 in an easy approach?
<sistpoty> '\sh that uploaders can comment on other but their own uploads?
<sistpoty> that might be possible... but i haven't seen revu1 code for some time ;)
<\sh> sistpoty: on their own uploads
<bddebian> Heya \sh, sistpoty
<sistpoty> ' \sh: this is working already
<sistpoty> hi bddebian
<sistpoty> ' \sh are there problems with a new account?
<\sh> sistpoty: i wanted to add Tonio today, that he can login..but he doesn't have a signed key
<\sh> sistpoty: this we have to change as well...cause he can upload
<\sh> but not comment on his uploads
<sistpoty> hm... i suppose the problem is somewhere else... i'll try to check
<\sh> sistpoty: I added his keyid in the db
<\sh> sistpoty: because his keyid was "0" ,-)
<bddebian> heh
<sistpoty> hm... there is some deeper magic behind that, but i don't know the right spells :/ (siretart was always doing the keyring stuff)
<bddebian> heh
<sistpoty> '\sh: i guess you used the revu-key-script?
<\sh> sistpoty: he was added already
<\sh> sistpoty: ( i didn't do it ;))
<\sh> sistpoty: but his keyid in Users table was "0" .. so I added his keyid by hand...I have to adjust the alter_user.py thx for reminding me ;)
<sistpoty> hehe... imo his entry is created when he does the first upload, but you still have to add his key to the keyring file
<\sh> sistpoty: he actually has two keys in the keyring ;)
<sistpoty> hm...
<sistpoty> <- has no clue about this key-stuff *g*
<\sh> k
<\sh> I have to find out by myself..no prob ;)
<sistpoty> ' \sh what's his email? (i'm just looking at the revu-db)
<\sh> anthony.blasomething ;)
<sistpoty> hm... entry looks good
<sistpoty> sh:  anthony.mercatante@laposte.net? (i just checked this account, everything is working)
<\sh> yepp
<\sh> I couldn't recover his password from the webpage...
<\sh> and when I checked it on the commandline, it told me, this key's not signed
<sistpoty> you could take a look into the db (pw's are currently stored plaintext)
<bddebian> Nice :-)
<\sh> sistpoty: yeah..but what if he forgets his password and wants to recover?
<sistpoty> then he *should* get his pw sent by mail, afaik (but i have neither coded nor tested this)
<bddebian> wb ivoks
<ivoks> funny thing happend right now :)
<ivoks> i started synaptic
<ivoks> and got response
<ivoks> "malicius attacker could be evesdropping"
<ivoks> ??
<ivoks> :)
<sistpoty> hehe, i guess ajmitch owns your machine now *g*
<ivoks> can't grab your mouse and keybord, it said :)
<ivoks> and then started gksudo :)
<sistpoty> lol
* sistpoty is AWAY at 19:32:46 : fetching cigarettes
<havoc> bah
<havoc> ubuntu is not cooperating
<spstarr_work> erm, network-manager build is broken in breezy
<spstarr_work>  there's no NetworkManagerInfo binary in the packaging
<spstarr_work> 0.4.1+cvs20050817-0ubuntu
<dholbach> spstarr_work: it's a univer package and j^ is the one you might want to talk to
<spstarr_work> yes
* sistpoty is back after 0 d 0 h 29 m 48 s
<j^> spstarr_work its called nm-applet
<j^> in case you are looking for the applet
<spstarr_work> NetworkManagerInfo
<spstarr_work> it wont run without it
<j^> thats from nm 0.3 in NM 0.4.x its called nm-applet
<havoc> so is there a 'refered' way to mess with X in ubuntu?
<havoc> since it failed to detect my card and has me stuck at 640x480
* spstarr_work checks dbus wants org.freedesktop.NetworkManagerInfo
<spstarr_work> hmm?
<spstarr_work> gah
<spstarr_work> NetworkManager daemon coredumps
<\sh> havoc: sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
<spstarr_work> ok, well that wont help nm-applet
<spstarr_work> it finds my eth0 (e1000), but eth1 ipw2200 crashes it
<havoc> \sh: thanx
<spstarr_work> hmm
<havoc> too bad it locked up
<\sh> havoc: reboot and edit the kernel line in grub and add single
<havoc> what's 'single' do?
<spstarr_work> single user mode
<havoc> ah
<j^> spstarr_work what does syslog say?
<havoc> no ssh either?
<spstarr_work> j^ looking, but the ipw2200 is spewing lots of log info too
<spstarr_work> ah
<\sh> havoc: single user mode...u can fix stuff, or boot into maintainance mode..to not start the x server, but to fix the xserver conf
<spstarr_work> dhcdbd
<spstarr_work> message_handler: message handler not found under /com/redhat/dhcp/eth0 for sub-path eth0.dbus.get.reason
<j^> spstarr_work i get that too
<j^> thats not the problem
<spstarr_work> the segfault is occuring after it tries to look at eth1
<j^> you could start NetworkManager --no-daemon
<spstarr_work> that shows the crash
<j^> and use strace or gdb
<spstarr_work> gdb shows garbage :( no symbols
<j^> spstarr_work could you find any hint?
<spstarr_work> malloc_trim
<spstarr_work> but no symbols from NetworkManager itself
<spstarr_work> just GNU libc
<j^> hm, can you try to restart dbus
<dholbach> does network-manager crash a lot?
<dholbach> if so, you may want to introduce a -dbg package
<j^> dholbach it did not crash here for the last months, nautilus does
<spstarr_work> that would be helpful, i'll pull the package if you have it :)
<dholbach> ok
<spstarr_work> j^: Crashed still, no daemon running after dbus restarts all the Network* daemons (2)
<dholbach> spstarr_work: this should help too: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash
<j^> dholbach its the first time someone reports a crash
<spstarr_work> first time?
<spstarr_work> wow
<j^> spstarr_work like this, its the first time yes, there was one deadlock but no crash
<spstarr_work> I am using the 0.4.1+cvs build in breezy
<spstarr_work> but aptitude finds no debug symbol stub package
<dholbach> spstarr_work: there is none, i was merely suggesting it as an idea
<spstarr_work> or can I build the package and produce symbols
<dholbach> spstarr_work: this should help too: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash
<spstarr_work> you mentioned that ;)
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> that's the answer
<dholbach> again ;)(
<dholbach> ;-)
<spstarr_work> er
<spstarr_work> sec gonna build it
<dholbach> rock
<spstarr_work> hrm, missing dpkg-source
* spstarr_work investigates
<spstarr_work> dpkg-dev
<dholbach> you want devscripts and dpkg-dev
<spstarr_work> yeah never installed those
<dholbach> yeah, you need them for proper package building
<sistpoty> yippieh... i think i finally fixed hmake :)
<\sh> sistpoty: wooot?
<spstarr_work> feh, dependency hell
<sistpoty> ' \sh: well, it still has to go thru pbuilder
<spstarr_work> -2 is newer than -1 and thus it wont build
<markuman> im on amd64, i can build amd64 deb packages. but is it possible to build x86 package too? so are there any ./configure options ?
<havoc> does 'single' mode have networking?
<\sh> havoc: for what? u only have to fix the bugs and reboot ;)
<sistpoty> grrr... hmake builts, but it's postinst fails :( damn beast!
<\sh> or enter `init 3`
<mitsuhiko> can someone explain me why there is a "moin" package in the repo, as well as a unsupported "python-moinmoin" package with a newser version?
<havoc> \sh: ok, so I *can* pass init args
<\sh> havoc: from the commandline yes
<zyga> dholbach: ping
<dholbach> zyga: pong
<zyga> dholbach: how can I continue my revu process having a signed key now?
<dholbach> wow, you're fast
<Mario___> Hello people
<dholbach> wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU has the solution
<dholbach> hi Mario___
<\sh> zyga: u uploaded your key to a keyserver?
<Mario___> I need to register a username, I know :p
<zyga> \sh: only the unsigned key
<\sh> zyga: write a mail to siretart or to me or to sistopy with your keyid (it must be uploaded to a keyserver) and ask for add to the keyring
<\sh> zyga: update your key
<zyga> \sh: k
<spstarr_work> fixed
<\sh> so it takes at least 24h that all keyservers are updated
<spstarr_work> odd, i had a newer package that shouldn't exist
<mitsuhiko> hm. about the moin thingy. i've posted a bug report. maybe someone can review it: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16164
<spstarr_work> libxrender1-0.9.0-2 when ubuntu needs -1
<\sh> mitsuhiko: wrong tracker ;) malone u want to use ;) or is moin in main?
<mitsuhiko> \sh: in main
<mitsuhiko> \sh: a bit tricky. half of it is in main ^^
<\sh> mitsuhiko: ok..then it's correct..main devs are looking at it..no worries
<spstarr_work> j^: building network-manager now...
<spstarr_work> done
* \sh stopped working for today..no main/universe bugfixes with alcohol in the system
<sistpoty> hehe
<bddebian> \sh: Awe come on, that should be your best work. ;-P
<\sh> bddebian: no :)
<dsas> does anyone know any names of simple packaged python programs I could download to take apart the deb?
<Surak> apt-python?
<bddebian> I'd better stop uploading then. ;-P
<\sh> ;)
<\sh> who was on the motu security team?
<dholbach> astharot
<\sh> trying to get infinity into the team ;)
<spstarr_work> found crash
<spstarr_work> j^
<spstarr_work> #2 nm_dispose_scan_results
<spstarr_work> #3 nm_device_supports_wireless_scan
<spstarr_work> #4 nm_device_new
<spstarr_work> NetworkManagerUtils.c: Line 367\
<spstarr_work> yes it tries to probe the wireless card
<spstarr_work>  /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/net_macaddress
<spstarr_work> DEVICE_TYPE_DONT_KNOW
<havoc> how would I disable the screen saver from the commandline?
<havoc> as it locks up everytime I load the control panel thing for it in gnome
<dsas> Surak: I can't find apt-python "https://www.nochex.com/nochex.dll/account/forgotpass"
<dsas> whoops
<dsas> sudo apt-get source apt-python "Unable to find a source package for apt-python"
<spstarr_work> num_net_devices = 2
<spstarr_work> iface eth1
<spstarr_work> found eth0, eth1 as expected
<spstarr_work> memory leak!
<spstarr_work> tmp = tmp->next;
<spstarr_work> free(tmp2);
<spstarr_work> wireless_scan *tmp2 = tmp;
<spstarr_work> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
* spstarr_work adds some check
<spstarr_work> j^
<spstarr_work> it breaks on free(tmp2);
<spstarr_work> in NetworkManagerUtils.c: Line 367
<spstarr_work> debugging why if something in tmp2 is not freed
<spstarr_work> dangling pointer will be left
<spstarr_work> #2 nm_dispose_scan_results <-
<j^> so something does wrong while scanning
<spstarr_work> yeah
<j^> iwlist eth0 scanning
<j^> works?
<spstarr_work> yes but warns
<j^> that might be the problem
<spstarr_work> driver = v0.19, userspace = v0.18
<spstarr_work> ubuntu's wifi userspace tools are older
<j^> NetworkManager needs working scanning support for wireless devices
<spstarr_work> nonetheless, scanning shows me APs all over
<spstarr_work> it just warns this message
<spstarr_work> Warning: Driver for device eth1 has been compiled for version 19 of Wireless Extension, while this program supports up to version 18. Some things may be broken...
<spstarr_work> and continues to display
<spstarr_work> eth1: Scan completed:
<spstarr_work> Cell 1...etc
<j^> hm
<spstarr_work> what next? :)
<j^> you might file a bug at bugzilla.gnome.org or write a mail to networkmanager-list@gnome.org
<j^> since i do not have a ipw2200 i can not test it right now
<j^> anyone with a ipw2200 using NetworkManager around?
<j^> or you could try to compile http://ipw2200.sourceforge.net/ yourself
<spstarr_work> emailed
<spstarr_work> did
<spstarr_work> im using 2.6.14-rc2 with ipw2220 1.0.6 / ieee 1.0.3 (external to kernel)
<j^> ah so you are not using the ubuntu kernel?
<j^> can you try that?
<ogra> meh, no wonder its out of sync with the userspace tools
<spstarr_work> cant use ubuntu kernel, hardware on laptop is dependent on mainline
<j^> that is most likely the problem
<spstarr_work> should still not break
<spstarr_work> if running iwconfig scanning works NetworkManager should not crash
<j^> no
<j^> you might need a newer version of libiw-dev
<j^> the wireless framework was reworked quite a bit in 2.6..13
<spstarr_work> and newer version of libiw
<spstarr_work> and iwconfig/iwlist
<spstarr_work> ubuntu only has 0.27, 0.28
<spstarr_work> intersting
<spstarr_work> commenting out the free() i get the warning from the lib
<spstarr_work> then a glibc exception realloc()
<spstarr_work> i could.. just bump the version in wireless.h ;-)
<spstarr_work> 18 -> 19 ;p
<spstarr_work> let's see...
<spstarr_work> IT WORKED
<spstarr_work> hahahahahahahaha
<spstarr_work> ok well
<spstarr_work> that was easy
<spstarr_work> now let's try to restart gnome to see the applet
<spstarr_work> dbus wants org.freedesktop.NetworkManagerInfo
<j^> changing the version from 18->19 fixed the crash?
<spstarr_work> yes
<spstarr_work> NetworkManager is now running
<j^> org.freedesktop.NetworkManagerInfo is in nm-applet.conf
<j^> /etc/dbus-1/system.d
<spstarr_work> i see that
<spstarr_work> but its not able to connect to :1.8
<spstarr_work> due to security policies in the configuration file
<spstarr_work> grr
<spstarr_work> isn't that what SELinux was supposed to do?
<spstarr_work> dbus should let SELinux handle the security
<j^> spstarr_work so all in all you are not using ubuntus base system
<ogra> guys can you take that elsewhere ? thats neither motu nor packaging related
<spstarr_work> originally debian unstable
<ogra> and quite offtopic for this channel
<spstarr_work> j^: #ubuntu-devel? :)
<ogra> do it in a query ;)
<j^> spstarr_work what about #NetworkManager
<sistpoty> ogra: I'd like to request an UVF-exception for hmake (current is broken and FTBFS)
<slomo> sistpoty: where did you get a working version? i didn't find one :( btw, new upstream will also fix c2hs but you have to change the packaging because they changed their buildsystem to cabal
<sistpoty> slomo: actually from the place in the watch file of the old version
<slomo> sistpoty: hmm
<ogra> sistpoty, can it break anything else ?
<sistpoty> slomo: i had to tweak some things however (this was this afternoons work)
<slomo> sistpoty: maybe i was drunken ;) iirc i found nothing working
<sistpoty> ogra: i don't know yet... as quite many haskell stuff which might depend on it is currently broken, but i'm quite sure it can't break stuff currently working
<dholbach> have a nice evening, i'm out for a beer
<sistpoty> cya dholbach
<slomo> sistpoty: it can't break stuff currently broken... should be save
<sistpoty> slomo: it didn't build with just the old debian-stuff copied ;)
<slomo> sistpoty: iirc it didn't even build when building by hand... or that was another package ;)
<sistpoty> hm... it didn't make any problems if you forced it to use ghc6 instead of haskell-compiler
<ogra> sistpoty, sounds sane, if the packaging is ok, go ahead, but let someone look over the package (preferably slomo, since he seems to have worked on i already a bit)
<ogra> s/i/it
<sistpoty> k, thx
<sistpoty> slomo: it's on revu
<slomo> sistpoty: hmm *shrug* i'll take a look
<slomo> maybe i mix this with c2hs or something
<sistpoty> btw.: there are two cvs-files in the orig-tarballs... should these be removed (which imo corrupts the orig) or be left in there
<slomo> all the haskell stuff is annoying ;)
<sistpoty> hehe
<slomo> sistpoty: i would keep them... they don't hurt
<sistpoty> apart from the lintian-warnings you are right ;)
<ogra> keep them or removen them in rules...
<ogra> -n
<sistpoty> ogra: they aren't installed
<slomo> sistpoty: what is with your other revu update-uploads?
<slomo> \sh_away: what is with the vpnc upload in revu?
<sistpoty> slomo: what do you mean? haskell-utils/rscheme?
<ogra> sistpoty, nope, but to get lintian quiet you can remove them through rules...
<slomo> sistpoty: yes
<ogra> slomo, the nm-vpnc ?
<slomo> ogra: removing in rules doesn't help with lintian... the files will still be in the source package
<sistpoty> ogra: ah, i c
<slomo> ogra: nm?
<ogra> slomo, network-manager
<slomo> ogra: no... http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=618
<sistpoty> slomo: haskell-utils was a quick shot... it should rather be synced than this package
<slomo> sistpoty: then please request a sync from elmo :)
<ogra> slomo, true... sistpoty just leave them there
<slomo> \sh_away: ignore me... it was the other sh ( shawarma )
<sistpoty> slomo: however iirc we have a newer version than debian... is syncing possible then?
<slomo> sistpoty: we have a NEWER version? why do we want to sync then? ;)
<ogra> slomo, warma.dk ? are you sure thats our \sh ?
<sistpoty> it was some fiddling with build-deps only, no real changes
<slomo> ogra: no... it's the other sh... see above ;)
<ogra> ah
<ogra> thats quite yonfusing
<slomo> sistpoty: so debians version is... lets say x.y.z-1 and we have x.y.z-1ubuntu1? and the -1 is ok now?
<ogra> con even
<sistpoty> slomo: imo it is, but i need to check this before
<slomo> sistpoty: ok... but a sync will not work then... we need a higher version ;)
<slomo> sistpoty: just upload -1ubuntu2 or whatever that would be
<slomo> sistpoty: do you already have upload rights?
<sistpoty> slomo: no, i'm no motu yet
* sistpoty missed last tbmeeting :(
<slomo> sistpoty: ok... give me the debdiff and i'll upload it :)
<sistpoty> ok
<sistpoty> slomo: but imo this has no high prio, as the current version actually is working. a synced one would have the only difference, that there are binaries instead of interpreted haskell progs
<ogra> slomo, what i approved already as exception was http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=541 , but it seems to need some packaging work...
<slomo> sistpoty: well, give me the debdiff ;) even small improvements are worth an upload imho
<sistpoty> oke
<sistpoty> ogra: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=635 would also break uvf (rscheme)
<slomo> sistpoty: what is rscheme? scheme stuff?
<sistpoty> yep
<slomo> sistpoty: err... scheme, the lisp stuff ;) or scheme as in one of the many other meanings
<sistpoty> the things with lambda's ;)
<slomo> ok... the good thing :)
<slomo> what does it do? is it a interpreter or compiler?
<sistpoty> i needed to pull the source, and was the 7th person who dl'ed it according to the webpage
* slomo is too lazy to look at the package ;)
<sistpoty> actually an interpreter... it shall be a compiler as well, though i did test the interpreter only
<sistpoty> (i found out, that i wasn't able to program a simple function any more *g*)
<slomo> sistpoty: (display bla) =)
<sistpoty> hehe
<slomo> at least guile accepts it
<slomo> but i'll take a look at it later :) then we only need ogra to approve it ;)
<ogra> slomo, if you are confident, i'm fine ...
<slomo> ok
<ogra> :)
<slomo> sistpoty: do you like weird languages? ;)
<sistpoty> not really... but i held lessons in scheme on university ;)
<slomo> for dapper we should try to get ghc working with gcc 3.4 or 4.0...
<sistpoty> for 1st term students
<slomo> hmm, we learned some sml a few weeks ago ;)
<slomo> and prolog
<sistpoty> yes, we should... probably then a new version will be out
<slomo> but scheme is nicer imho :) not useful but nice ;)
<sistpoty> oh, never did anything with sml/prolog yet
<sistpoty> hm... for scheme the brackets suck
<sistpoty> you end up counting brackets imo *g*
<slomo> why does everybody hate the brackets? ;) get an editor that shows which brackets belong together :P
<sistpoty> hehe
<slomo> but sml is interesting too... just that we don't have a working compiler/interpreter anymore :(
<sistpoty> is this s.th. like caml? or a completely different thing
<slomo> smlnj ist complety broken upstream and in debian... and mosml is debian incompatible... but i think we can have this in universe ;) so when someone wants to package it
<slomo> should be similar to caml
<slomo> let's see *googles*
<sistpoty> ah... quite nice (though i can't program it)
<sistpoty> muahaha, there is a newer debian-version of haskell-utils, which actually is (apart from the changelog) the very same we have
<sistpoty> seems like utnubu is working
<slomo> hehe
<slomo> or the debian maintainer looked at packages.qa.debian.org for his package ;)
<sistpoty> it was a nmu
<slomo> ok... then maybe just sync?
<sistpoty> will this be helpful to reduce syncing work in the future?
<slomo> yes
<slomo> it will be synced automatically in the future
<slomo> ah... i forgot hmake ;)
<slomo> builds on ppc and looks fine... uploaded :)
<sistpoty> :)
<slomo> so just tell elmo to sync... when the package really works for us ;)
<sistpoty> i don't object to a sync... (even if this won't change anything)
<slomo> why?
<sistpoty> because we have this version already in the archive ;)
<sistpoty> apart from reduced syncing business in the future
<slomo> yes... but that's imho a good reason ;)
<slomo> otherwise it will be handled by MoM
<slomo> and will cause work ;)
<sistpoty> oke
<slomo> just tell him what todo... by mail or in irc ;)
<sistpoty> i'm just trying to ping him ;)
<slomo> i'll archive haskell-utils then?
<sistpoty> yes
<slomo> don't ping him... he will pong when you're asleep or something ;)
<sistpoty> oh
<sistpoty> then i'll write a mail
<slomo> hm, why is the rscheme package native in debian?
<sistpoty> i don't have the slightest clue
<sistpoty> perhaps this was packaged a little too fast (the control file had some minor errors)
<sistpoty> apart from that it's a really good packaging work from the dd imo
<slomo> hmm
<slomo> well, the original tarball contained temporary autofoo stuff
<slomo> but that's no reason for native packages ;)
<sistpoty> oh, did it? haven't looked really well at it then ;)
<sistpoty> btw.: i just wrote elmo a mail, and cc'd you
<slomo> sistpoty: elmo synced something a few seconds ago... and i asked just before you joined -devel ;)
<sistpoty> oh
<slomo> what are this mcf and mif files which rscheme builds?
<siretart> ogra: requesting UVF exception for tvtime: 0.9.15-1ubuntu2 -> 1.0.1-2ubuntu1. rationale: fixes ftbfs on x86 + enables xinerama/dual head setup. tested on my machine on amd64
<siretart> hi folks, btw
<sistpoty> huhu siretart
<siretart> hi sistpoty
<sistpoty> siretart: sorry, had no time to meet you today
<bddebian> Heya siretart
<ogra> siretart, go ahead, ftbfs fixes dont need UVF exception
<siretart> sistpoty: I was also quite short on time, did join johannes quite late
<siretart> ogra: noted. thanks :)
<ogra> (aslong as they dont break anything else)
<sistpoty> slomo: not quite sure on this... but imo one of this is c-files translated from scheme
<siretart> huhu bddebian
<siretart> sistpoty: but we stayed until 20:00 at uni ;)
<sistpoty> wow
<bddebian> Catch you in a few gang
<slomo> sistpoty: http://www.rscheme.org/rs/
<slomo> sistpoty: look at the box at the top
<slomo> sistpoty: it builds fine on ppc :)
<Surak> is this a correct time to ask for help on polishing a modem module package so it can get into multiverse some day?
<sistpoty> slomo: cool :) imo the webpage is a little bit outdated
<Surak> the package is fine, however I would like that one of the MOTUs take a look at it.
<sistpoty> slomo: apart from that i've seen a patch for ppc from the dd
<slomo> sistpoty: which you probably dropped?
<sistpoty> slomo: no, they applied just fine
<slomo> ok, so they were not in the native package outside debian?
<sistpoty> no, the dd used dpatch ;)
<slomo> wonderful :)
<slomo> uploaded
<sistpoty> cool :)
<ivoks> just when you think you saw it all...
<ivoks> i was in professional sport for 10 years
<ivoks> i mean, i saw judges judging everything...
<ivoks> but what i saw today...
<siretart> damn
<siretart> I missed the -v parameter to debuild -S :(
<ivoks> i say, hell with EU
* sistpoty is just afk for a smoke
<slomo> sistpoty: got the accepted mail for rscheme?
<siretart> before I make more mistakes, gn8 folks
<ivoks> 'night
<slomo> gn8
<sistpoty> gn8 siretart
<sistpoty> slomo: yes, got the mail
<slomo> ok, fine :)
* sistpoty is off as well... cya
<slomo> gn8
<Surak> good night people.
<_tonio> nite
#ubuntu-motu 2005-09-29
<sebest_> anyone using beagle?
<sebest_> it seems to need a lot of memory...
<sebest_> sebest   14786 27.4 40.3 378832 208092 pts/1   Sl   00:21   9:47 mono-beagled --debug /usr/lib/beagle/BeagleDaemon.exe --bg
<sebest_> running for only 30 minutes
<slomo> yes beagle eats memory ;)
<ogra> but it stops after it has indexed everything (after a running a week or so) :)
<ogra> then it only needs space for the delta
<sebest_> in a week?! lol, i must go buying extra ram and hotplug it!
<slomo> lol
<Burgundavia> sebest_, it is getting better
<sebest_> Burgundavia with beagle?
<sebest_> i mean with 0.1
<Burgundavia> sebest_, beagle is getting less memory hungry
<havoc> are there any plans to allow package selection during install?
<ajmitch> morning
<havoc> ajmitch: hola
<ajmitch> havoc: no
<havoc> :(
<ajmitch> why complicate the install?
<havoc> ajmitch: if you allowed package selection during install then you could customize and save an install for many systems
<havoc> it can't be automated right now
<havoc> at least not as far as I know
<ajmitch> there's stuff to do that now
<ogra> there is kickstart
<havoc> which makes ubuntu wholey unsuitable for large shops
<havoc> ogra: what's that?
<ogra> you dont know redhats kickstart for mass deployments ?
<havoc> oh, it's a redhat thing
<havoc> I've been using mandrake
<havoc> which allows you to save the package selection, settings, etc.. for doing mass rollouts
<havoc> but I'm trying to switch my whole business over to debian and ubuntu
<ogra> kickstart hooks into the installer
<havoc> so I'm just trying to find equivalent procedures for what I already do
<ogra> yuo can do your customized config and deploy it everywhere
<havoc> but I still have to install gnome, then install KDE afterwards?
<havoc> (I use that as one example)
<havoc> Firefly rules
<bddebian> Hey folks
<ajmitch> hello
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<phlaegel> pida looks pretty neat... thanks to whoever packaged it
<bddebian> Jesus, does anything build anymore :'-(
<arzajac> flashplugin-nonfree recommends gsfonts-x11. flashplayer-mozilla does not.  This package is needed to let flash display fonts.  Can it be made a depends?
<arzajac> For both packages?
* lamont curses mpg123's continued ftbfs
* ajmitch notes that flashplay-mozilla was fixed by infinity, according to breezy-changes
<lamont> iz possible that mpg123 now builds...
<lamont> iz needs-build atm
<lamont> and -20 still has bogus dpkg invocations
<lamont> g'night all
<bddebian> Damn it's quiet in here
<jond> hi
<bddebian> Hello
<jond> mediawiki in breezy has dependency issues
<jond> which is in universe
<jond> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Diff according to this site 1.4.x of mediawiki can't use version 5.0.4 of php but that is exactly what it depends on
<jond> either mediawiki needs to be upgraded or php needs to be downgraded
<bddebian> Did you check the changelog?  Maybe someone fixed it?
<jond> where can I find the changelog?
<jond> I will look
<bddebian> You can look on packages.ubuntu.com or apt-get source :-)
<jond> well I recently apt-get update if thats what you mean
<jond> i'll do it again just in case
<bddebian> No, I mean you can download the source with "apt-get source mediawiki", then look at the changelog :-)
* ajmitch would bug ogra about it :)
<bddebian> Hey ajmitch, you bored? :-)
<jond> http://packages.ubuntu.com/breezy/web/mediawiki I am looking here and it is still version php5 and actually it looks like someone changed it to depend on that in august
<ajmitch> bddebian: no
<ajmitch> jond: file a bug in malone about it
<jond> ajmitch, ok
<bddebian> Heya tritium
<tritium> Hi bddebian.
<bddebian> How's life?
<tritium> Not bad.  I was getting ready to throw my harmony remote out the window a minute ago
<tritium> You?
<bddebian> There's about 3 or 4 packages I'd like to throw out the window :-)
* tritium opens the window
<bddebian> heh
<tritium> bddebian, I'm watching the NMSU football game.  Tonight is the first official radio broadcast of a football game in Navaho.
<bddebian> Hmm, interesting.  You speak Navaho?
<tritium> Nope
<ajmitch_> yay for overheating
<bddebian> Am I exciting you again ajmitch_ ?? ;-P
<ajmitch_> hah funny
<pef> hello
<\sh> moins
<ajmitch> hi \sh
<\sh> ajmitch: I'll send an email to elmo tomorrow for some syncs, and clamav will be updated then as well...but for dapper, we  should consider a move to main for this piece of software
<ajmitch> \sh: even then it'll need constant engine updates
<ajmitch> something to BOF :)
<\sh> yes...
<ivoks> ah, getting ready for canada? :)
<ajmitch> debian has its volatile archive now, or at least soon :)
<ivoks> did anyone worked with dh_python?
<ajmitch> sure
<ivoks> well, it goes in build or install? :)
<ivoks> install, i gues
<ivoks> so, what else beside ${python:Depends} should I do?
<ivoks> i substitutes that with nothing
<ivoks> s/i/it/
<ajmitch> pass the right parameters to dh_python :)
<ivoks> it needs paramateres? :/
<ajmitch> and make sure you're calling it in the right place
<ajmitch> you have read the manpage, right?
<ivoks> yes
* ivoks is still under impression of last game on european champ. in basketball
<\sh> where is mez?
<\sh> where is jdong?
<StrikeForce> can someone point me to where I need to log to find the log of why I get errors on shutting down?
<StrikeForce> its not showing up under /var/log/messages
<crimsun> the console output or the kernel ring buffer?
<StrikeForce> console output
<StrikeForce> as I shutdown one program generates an error
<StrikeForce> in the console outside of X
<crimsun> afaik that's not logged
<StrikeForce> gotta learn how to write faster then :(
<StrikeForce> I think its hal though
<StrikeForce> it comes up with an error
<StrikeForce> foudn it /etc/dbus-1/event.d/20hal: line 50: kill: (7295) - No such process
<pkern> ajmitch: Thanks for your efforts to bring Gobby into breezy. :D
<ajmitch> pkern: sorry, was going to notify you when it happened :)
<pkern> ajmitch: ;)
<ajmitch> how goes utnubu?
<ajmitch> you've tagged the remaining RFP/ITP bugs?
<\sh> does anybody know if this jdong is coming to ubz?
<ajmitch> \sh: I haven't heard, but mez is
<siretart> morning, folks!
<pkern> ajmitch: I tagged all which were on the missing packages list.
<ajmitch> morning siretart
<siretart> hi ajmitch
<siretart> morning \sh,  are there remaining questions about revu?
<pkern> ajmitch: I hope to get started with Utnubu as soon as I have got more time again. I'm too busy with school currently to backport Ubuntu packages to Debian
* ajmitch needs some more music to listen to
<pkern> ajmitch: We should start to write scripts similar to yours for semi-automatic syncing ;)
<\sh> siretart: I had problems with recovering the password for one user without a signed key ;)
<ajmitch> pkern: sure
<ajmitch> pkern: we'll be putting our scripts on the server that hosts revu
<pkern> ajmitch: They aren't /yet/ publically available, right?
<siretart> \sh: password recovery should work after his first accepted upload
<ajmitch> pkern: anything I've written is a bit messy, as it was hacked up for my own use :)
<\sh> siretart: well...he uploaded already many packages...
<siretart> then password recovery should work
<pkern> ajmitch: (:
<ajmitch> pkern: what sort of things are you looking for?
<\sh> siretart: I tried password recovery from commandline and it told me: no signed key ;)
<\sh> siretart: I wanted to give this guy comment functionality for his own packages
<ajmitch> the missing packages one I'm planning to rewrite & use grep-dctrl & a bit of shell
* ajmitch is on the utnubu-discuss list if you're wanting to coordinate there
<pkern> ajmitch: Well, Utnubu is about letting Ubuntu maintaining the packages. So we need something semi-automatic which merges our little build-dependency changes into the latest Ubuntu update to the package. Currently we have only one package under the hood of ut
<pkern> utnubu, and that one is manually managed by nomeata
<ajmitch> so a ubuntu->debian MoM
<pkern> jo
<pkern> Would be nice (:
<\sh> pkern: ask scott ;)
<siretart> keybuk told me that the mom functionality will be part of HCT
<pkern> HCT?
<siretart> the hypothetical changeset tool.
* ajmitch would have loved to have seen more people maintaining in debian instead of solely in ubuntu
<siretart> it is vaporware up to now, and hasn't been advertised or annouced.
<ajmitch> it's quite dependant on launchpad
<pkern> ajmitch: Same here. But I don't think that this would happen. Getting all to deal with Debian sponsors... (Well, Utnubu Devs would be available for this task...)
<ajmitch> and is switching to using bzr for branching
<ajmitch> pkern: it's ok for some of us who can upload :)
<pkern> ajmitch: It was about the non-DDs. (:
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> and we'll have some who'll get their package uploaded but go MIA
<ajmitch> I think it'll be more important during dapper's cycle
<pkern> ajmitch: Do you think the maintainers care about Debian when they're targetting Ubuntu? (This probably sounds too harsh, sorry |:)
<ajmitch> pkern: often they don't care beyond what they use, imho
<pkern> ajmitch: I thought the same...
<ajmitch> not really a harsh question
<pkern> ajmitch: Even in my social net I sense much hostility against Debian because it's "too old" and "sucks for C++ developers". They like Ubuntu more but don't understand they both need to coexist.
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> I don't get the 'sucks for c++ developers'
* siretart don't get it either
<ajmitch> since we got the pain of g++ 4.0 transition a couple of months before debian started
<Treenaks> ajmitch: c++-developers-who-consider-MSVC-to-be-c++?
<siretart> the compilers are mostly in sync in both debian and ubuntu, thanks to doko
<ajmitch> the MOTU team during breezy has been more of a firefighting team, trying to get everything in shape
<ajmitch> for dapper I think we'll see more new stuff
<pkern> Treenaks: Nope, C++ developers who don't get the problem with binary packages because they're mostly using Gentoo.
<pkern> ajmitch: 8 months of C++ transition is evil.
<Treenaks> pkern: UGRGRHHR
<pkern> ajmitch: Or how long is it?
<pkern> ajmitch: Nothing flowing into testing etc.
<Treenaks> pkern: for Debian it's normal, because there's the NMU taboo
<ajmitch> pkern: we're pretty much done with C++ transition here
<siretart> pkern: what does gentoo feature to c++ devs what debian doesn't?
<pkern> Treenaks: It's leaved for the transitions.
<ajmitch> siretart: everything gets built at once, no long dependency chains that get broken by renamed packages/incompat ABI
<Treenaks> pkern: then it can be done in a few days
<Treenaks> pkern: except on m68k
<pkern> Treenaks: Everybody could do 0-day NMUs during the BSPs, and I think 2-day NMUs for transition issues over the whole time.
<ajmitch> Treenaks: you really think that it could be a few days?
<pkern> Treenaks: The problem is more the "all dependencies need to be built on all architecture before you compile more"
<Treenaks> ajmitch: yes, 2 weeks max
<ajmitch> there are some deep dependencies there
<pkern> Treenaks: Which needs days per package
<ajmitch> Treenaks: it takes longer than that for some single packages
<ajmitch> this is C++, people write broken code
<pkern> siretart: They just don't get the problem that we need something like an ABI transition. Ignorant people are out there. Gentoo also features newer version of libraries much, much sooner.
<siretart> well, the c++ transition is mostly complete, so the time of the big transition is over, afai understand..
<pkern> ajmitch: Look at packages like sigc++ which do not enter testing ):
* ajmitch sees that one of his packages has never entered testing
<ajmitch> pkern: I think we'll try & discuss some solutions for getting our work into debian at UBZ
<pef> siretart: hello
<pkern> ajmitch: Would be nice. Please report the results to utnubu then (:
<ajmitch> pkern: certainly
<pef> siretart: what is the problem in GLUTransiton with boson-base ? not yet uploaded ?
<siretart> pef: The last time I looked at it, it failed to build
<pef> siretart: ohh ok :)
<siretart> pef: looking at http://bugs.debian.org/boson-base, I don't have much hope with it :(
<Cimmerian> is it possible for opera to end up in multiverse?
<siretart> Cimmerian: depends on the distribution term, did you check them/
<pef> siretart: ok, will look
<siretart> pef: looking at the maintainer record, I suspect the maintainer lost interest in the package :(
<pef> siretart: so why he didn't orphans the package .
<siretart> pef: ask him via email. perhaps lack of time/interesst
<siretart> interest
<pef> siretart: I try to build it, and I have different error that the error on bugs.debian, error with Arts library
<pef> and you ? ;)
<vrln> is there a chance something can still be upgraded before universe is frozen?
<vrln> the gtkpod version is a bit too old for at least some revisions of ipod mini
<vrln> and it should be fixed in the latest release (0.94, ubuntu has 0.93)
<vrln> http://packages.debian.org/unstable/sound/gtkpod <-- unstable has 0.94 packaged
<siretart> pef: I don't remember. If you really want to get it fixed, check if there is a new upstream version and try that
<siretart> pef: and contact the maintainer
<pef> siretart: ok :)
<vrln> I'll try the debian package to see if it works (according to one forum it should fix it)
<siretart> vrln: only if the new version fixes important bugs
<siretart> vrln: check the changelog/diff
<vrln> siretart: just tried it - I can confirm that the ubuntu 0.93 gtkpod does not work at all with a second revision ipod mini
<vrln> the debian unstable version works - just read the itunesdb
<vrln> but I'll search for the changelog, it should be there
<siretart> vrln: how can you be sure that it don't introduce new bugs?
<vrln> siretart: I can't :)
<vrln>  BUGFIX: Some iTunesDB files written by iTunes could not be read because of an error in the parse code (gtkpod would attempt to read beyond the end of the file).
<vrln> BUGFIX: Fixed compatibility issue with new firmware 3.1 and iTunes 4.9 (only 256 tracks were shown on the iPod, iTunes removed the majority of the tracks from the iPod). Podcasts are still not supported, however, and will be lost when handled by gtkpod.
<vrln> but it does contain the critical bugfix
<siretart> vrln: we will have the package in dapper then
<vrln> http://www.gtkpod.org/news.html <-- it does indeed have a few new features
<vrln> yeah, the package from debian works fine in ubuntu (the dependencies seem to be the same), I just thought I'd let you know
<ajmitch> siretart: this might be a case for breaking freeze, if the breezy package is useless on a lot of hardware
<\sh> siretart: check this http://www.ubuntuusers.de/viewtopic.php?t=11932
<siretart> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=317701 is the bug
<siretart> and it is important *grin*
<siretart> \sh: there seem to be 2 maybe unrelated probles
<siretart> problems
<tseng> after confirming the issue
<tseng> buh.
<siretart> hi tseng!
<\sh> siretart: well...they installed 1.0.6 from backports and now i think there is a new update from ubuntu
<tseng> hi siretart
<siretart> shadoi: yeah, known issue :(
<\sh> we should have a talk with jdong ;)
<siretart> ajmitch: after reconsidering, the gtkpod update might really be a good idea
<siretart> need to go, will anyone request a sync from elmo?
<siretart> bye!
<\sh> siretart: yes...doing it
<\sh> I make a list with all syncs
<siretart> we have MOTUToSync
<\sh> siretart: but I'm writing a mail to elmo ;) that he can do his job next week ;)
<\sh> siretart: I have more packages ;)
* ajmitch feels like watching some classic Peter Jackson films :)
* \sh just eats 
<\sh> and watching people breaking their systems
<ajmitch> heh
* tseng installs colony 5
* ajmitch needs to grab colony 5 for testing
* \sh is waiting for an install iso with 2.6.12-9.18
<\sh> because I just reinstalled windows on this r200...and I need to test 1. sk98lin and 2. resizing
<vrln> siretart: thanks by the way, this is really what I'd call listening to user-feedback :)
<pkern> Why is 1. the powerpc kernel broken with xfs and 2. lilo broken with root on LVM (it worked two times just fine, but now it refuses to write a new mbr)
<pkern> (broken with root on xfs anyway |:)
<\sh> going to visit my son..laters dude
<StrikeForce> evolution broken in breezy?
<StrikeForce> nm desktop icon read evolution-2.2 instead of 2.4
<slomo> jbailey: ping?
<tseng> fabbio fixed mythplugins :)
<Yagisan> colony 5 is out ?
<tseng> yes.
* Yagisan should test it in vmware 5 for jbailey
<Riddell> what's the best way to make libtunepimp/musicbrainz pacakges that compile against libmad?
<Riddell> so that people can use them as alternatives against existing ones?
<slomo> Riddell: i would make packages which provide and conflict with the packages without mad support
<Riddell> slomo: from the same source or different sources?
<slomo> Riddell: different source probably... the packages without mad support are in main?
<Riddell> yes
<slomo> and libmad is in main or universe?
<Riddell> it's in main
<slomo> hmm
<slomo> why is it compiled without mad support then?
<Riddell> because the packages are on the kubuntu CDs and we can't have mad on the CDs
<jbailey> slomo: I'm here for a couple minutes then I'm away again.  'sup?
<slomo> ok... but you can make them in the same source in that case
<Riddell> I suspect it would be pretty fiddly to make them from the same sources
<slomo> then make them from different source ;) wouldn't hurt imho
<slomo> jbailey: did you already read my newest comment to the ppc initramfs bug?
<jbailey> slomo: Nope.
<slomo> jbailey: kamion had the same problem when using xfs with colony 5... with ext3 it worked
<slomo> jbailey: on ppc
<jbailey> Joy.
<jbailey> I'll poke him about it then and see if he can give me one of each initramfs to see what's different.
<slomo> thanks... i can do it next weekend when he don't have enough free time
<jbailey> Well, Kamion sort of spends his life reinstalling Ubuntu
<jbailey> So if he's going to do a cycle anyway, I'll get it from him.
<jbailey> Other than that, I have an extra ppc box here I can do a format on.
<jbailey> It's just not wired up to a monitor atm.
<slomo> ok... sounds good ;)
<slomo> hi bddebian :)
<slomo> bddebian: want to look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=562 ?
<bddebian> Heya slomo
<bddebian> slomo: You don't need reviews do you? :-)
<slomo> bddebian: only one review ;)
<bddebian> :-)
<slomo> bddebian: will you do? ;)
<bddebian> Yep, sorry, just waiting for my machine to finish an update
<bddebian> s/update/upgrade
<slomo> no need to be sorry :P
<siretart> slomo: still not revu-built? ;)
<siretart> re, btw
<slomo> siretart: no... to many other things to do atm :( for example i'll be in denmark next week... but they have wlan everywhere ;)
<siretart> slomo: oh
<siretart> :)
<slomo> siretart: i'll be there: http://www.jaoo.org
<tseng>  anyone know how to debug why a usb2 device is running at 1.0 speeds
<tseng> on a usb2 port..
<slomo> tseng: no idea
<bddebian> slomo: You want me to build it on tiber, is that what you want?
<slomo> bddebian: no... i want you to review the package and give me a vote when it's ok ;)
<Yagisan> tseng: did it connect to the ehci driver ?
<bddebian> slomo: But don't you already have upload rights? :-)
<tseng> [4294889.641000]  usb 1-2: new full speed USB device using uhci_hcd and address
<tseng> Yagisan: i guess not.
<slomo> bddebian: sure... but it is a NEW package
* bddebian is confused
<bddebian> slomo: Oohh, gotcha
<siretart> slomo: w00t. sounds grat :)
<siretart> great
<Yagisan> tseng: try mod probing ehci_hcd and hotplug the device again
<tseng> Yagisan: trying exactly that :P
<Yagisan> tseng: I'm a slow typist
* Yagisan wishes he had voice control
<tseng> hm that might be a bit faster
<tseng> but nothing crazy
<tseng> [4600023.412000]  usb 1-2: new full speed USB device using uhci_hcd and address 8
<tseng> yeah
<tseng> i guess it really isnt usb2 or something
<Yagisan> tseng: nope is only 12Mbps usb1
<tseng> the ports i mean.
<tseng> on my motherboard
<Yagisan> tseng: how old is the m/b ?
<tseng> maybe 2 years tops
<tseng> and it was high end
<Yagisan> tseng: what chipset ?
<tseng> intel something or other
<Yagisan> tseng: try this http://support.intel.com/support/motherboards/desktop/sb/CS-009024.htm
<Yagisan> tseng: it seems usb2 isn't enabled by default for some intel boards and perhaps non-intel as well
<bddebian> OK, I really have to start keeping my machine more up to date.  This 200-300 packages stuff sucks :-)
<chrissturm> whats the command to update a source deb to a newer version? i have the sourcedeb to mkvtoolnix 1.5.5 and i would like to make a deb for mkvtoolnix 1.5.6 with it. i think it was something debxxx -S
<slomo> chrissturm: uupdate or uscan... depending on whether there is a watchfile
<chrissturm> slomo: what is a watchfile? is this documented somewhere?
<slomo> chrissturm: does debian/watch exist?
<chrissturm> nope
<slomo> then download the new upstream tarball and run uupdate on it
<chrissturm> cool, thx
<chrissturm> does that work with a bz2 compressed tarball?
<slomo> test it
<chrissturm> now i get uupdate: could not find diffs from version 1.5.5-1 to apply!
<slomo> jbailey: btw... the incomplete write message seems to be caused by xfs as well when i understood kamion right... maybe that's the point to look at... maybe yaboot loads more then just the initrd when it lies on xfs
<bddebian> OK, WTF is up with my account on REVU??
<siretart> bddebian: ?
<bddebian> I can't login in anymore
<siretart> does pw recovery work?
<bddebian> Nope
<bddebian> They all decrypt to None
<siretart> then you most probably used the wrong login name
<bddebian> I have tried all three
<siretart> also this one? http://revu.tauware.de/lostpw.py?email=bddebian@comcast.net
<bddebian> Weird, when I did a recover on that before it came back as none.. Hmm. Thx siretart
<bddebian> Holy crap, we're up to 527 bugs again.. :'-(
<slomo> sebest: when can we expect a release of your avahi panel applet? or do you have objections against using current svn?
<slomo> sebest: and please make your licensing clear... LICENSE says GPL, some sources say LGPL... and afaik COPYING is the "standard" file to contain the license... autogen.sh gives some warning about it
<Snadder> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<Snadder>   smlnj: Depends: smlnj-runtime (>= 110.42-3) but it is not installable
<Snadder> E: Broken packages
<Snadder> been like this for some weeks atleast.
<Snadder> anyone in here able to fix this?
<Treenaks> what is it?
<slomo> Snadder: smlnj is completly broken... it's unlikely that we can fix it before the release
<Snadder> some error with the package "smlnj
<Snadder> hum.. it works in debian
<Treenaks> slomo: c++-breakage?
<slomo> Snadder: it's also broken for debian... it's unbuildable atm because it needs itself for bootstrapping
<Snadder> I installed it 4 days ago at my debian box
<Treenaks> Snadder: installing != building
<Treenaks> Snadder: ubuntu rebuilds everything, but apparently it can't be rebuilt (even in debian)
<slomo> Snadder: yes, it's installable... but we can't build it anymore (and debian has older binaries on their ftps... the new ones doesn't build for them too iirc)
<Snadder> ah... understand
<Snadder> any idea when the release will be?
<slomo> Snadder: sadly the debian maintainer has no time to fix it somehow :(
<slomo> Snadder: breezy? october 13th afaik
<bddebian> WTF is up with Malone?
<Snadder> ok.. but why not build it from source?.. and not depend on debian?
<bddebian> Snadder: It needs itself to build
<Snadder> cross compile?
<Snadder> I hardly doubt its not possible to compile the source package from theire website
<Snadder> this package have been around for ages
<bddebian> Snadder: So go for it ;-)
<slomo> Snadder: i have a working version for x86 and ppc here... but it's a really bad hack
<slomo> Snadder: it uses the binaries you can get on their homepage to build itself again
<slomo> Snadder: but imho this package is just broken upstream... it needs itself to build and they provide no easy way to get a bootstrap compiler
<Snadder> okay.
<slomo> but as someone cares about this package i'll see whether i can upload my hack later...
<slomo> i thought nobody cares because it was broken for ages
<Snadder> abit sad.. since i've recommended ubuntu to some friends I got at school.. which needs to work with ml.. maybe they have to switch over to debian now
<Snadder> ah. ok
<slomo> would mosml also work for you?
<Snadder> if it works to run ml programs..
<Snadder> let me see
<slomo> there is no package atm
<slomo> i have one on my hdd ;)
<slomo> the license is a bit suspect
<Snadder> what kinda license?
<Snadder> whould it be possible to add it to ubuntu?
<slomo> it is partly non-free
<slomo> so it would be in multiverse
<Snadder> O_o.. then it whould rock.. if you'd manage to add that package
<Snadder> well.. if it works just like smlnj tho.
<slomo> do you have some time to test?
<chrissturm> what kind of programminglanguage is ML?
<slomo> chrissturm: functional
<chrissturm> like erlang?
<Snadder> like lisp
<slomo> but without that many brackets ;)
<tseng> i like brackets
<tseng> thats why i use tcl
<bddebian> heh
* tseng hides
<slomo> me too... but many people hate them ;)
<Snadder> slomo, I got time.. but I first need to install ubuntu on my laptop
<slomo> Snadder: ok... can you test the package today for me? otherwise it will be unlikely we get it into breezy as i'm in denmark next week
<Snadder> since I dont got it installed myself.. only some friends at school got it...
<Snadder> yep. i'll do that
* Snadder fires up the install right away..
<markuman> is ubuntu using the debian-installer ?
<vrln> markuman: yup - a customized version I think though
<slomo> Snadder: and for smlnj... seems to work still... so maybe i'll upload it later... but mosml feels better ;)
<Snadder> cool.. thanks alot:)
<bddebian> slomo: You ROCK!! :-)
* bddebian SUCKS :'-(
<slomo> bddebian: you don't
<bddebian> slomo: I do. :-(  I have been fighting with gnat-gps and axiom for three days and they should be fairly simple fixes :-(
<slomo> axiom is evil afaik ;)
<slomo> and gnat-gps was big
<bddebian> I think the new axiom from Debian would be fine, it's just looking for the X libs and includes in the wrong places.  It defines /usr/X11R6/lib and /usr/include/X11R6
<bddebian> But it takes FOREVER to build
<slomo> bddebian: ask Nafallo about his pbuilder ccache magic
<bddebian> Well it specifies them in the Makefile but after changing all them, it blew up on tetex for some strange reason :-)
<slomo> Snadder: ok, i can upload smlnj later... but it would be perfect if you can test my mosml package later :)
<bddebian> slomo: Can you please take smlnj off the UnmetDeps list when you do? :-)
<slomo> bddebian: sure
<bddebian> Thx
<sebest__> slomo: where?
<slomo> sebest__: look at the query ;)
<sebest__> ok
<sebest__> yes i should fix the licencing issue
<sebest__> if i put only COPYING is it enought?
<slomo> sources and COPYING should be consistent... i.e. not GPL in COPYING and LGPL in sources
<slomo> but otherwise... yes
<sebest__> what is the difference between COPYING and LICENCE?
<slomo> no idea... but COPYING is the filename where the autotools look for the license
<sebest__> slomo: what are the implication of making a release now? will i be able to make a new version that can then also enter breezy, or is it freezed?
<slomo> sebest__: i could upload the package for review and we probably get it into breezy... there were enough people interested in it... but i could also package a svn snapshot
<sebest__> for example if i branch 0.1 now, i will be able to make a 0.2 release in one week or so and have it reviewed also?
<sebest__> or is review a slow process?
<markuman> what are you preffer to build deb packages? dh_make, pbuilder oder CDBS ?
<sebest__> slomo i fix the licencing issue, if you think it's ok , i can tag 0.1
<slomo> sebest__: depends... should be fairly fast as many people were interested in that applet ;)
<slomo> sebest__: but one week may be too late... but we'll see :)
<slomo> Yagisan: you used a lintian override?
<Yagisan> slomo: where ?
<Yagisan> I have them in various packages
<slomo> ok, wait... maybe i've got it right now ;)
<sebest__> slomo: could you test le last svn, and create a tar.gz using make dist? and if it is ok, i take it 0.1
<slomo> Yagisan: hm no... how do you install it to the correct location?
<Yagisan> slomo, just a sec
<slomo> sebest__: please give me the svn url again and i'll make it
<dholbach> hello
<sebest__> hello dholbach
<slomo> Snadder: smlnj uploaded... please pray that it builds ;)
<slomo> hi dholbach
<Snadder> :-)
<Yagisan> slomo: install -o root -g root -m 644 debian/deng-jdoom-pwad-2002ado.lintian debian/deng-jdoom-pwad-2002ado/usr/share/lintian/overrides/deng-jdoom-pwad-2002ado
<ogra> slomo, pray ?
<ogra> didnt you testbuild it ?
<sebest__> slomo: svn checkout svn://svn.0pointer.de/service-discovery-applet/trunk service-discovery-applet
<slomo> ogra: sure... it built fine here :) but i don't like this package...
<bddebian> Heya dholbach
<ogra> heh
<slomo> sebest__: thanks
<Snadder> slomo, i'm soon finnished with the install
<slomo> sebest__: licensing stuff is fine now... just release it and i'll take your tarball
<slomo> Yagisan: thanks
<sebest__> slomo, you can issue ./bootstrap.sh && make dist
<Yagisan> slomo: glad I could help
<sebest__> it will create a tar.gz
<slomo> sebest__: yes i know... but then i have a tarball with other md5sum than yours later ;)
<sebest__> ah...
<sebest__> i've nowhere to put it :s
<slomo> sebest__: ask Lathiat to host it for you somewhere ;)
<sebest__> wait a second, i ask on #avahi
<bddebian> Heya \sh
<slomo> Snadder: i hope my mosml package is ready by then
<\sh> hey bddebian
<slomo> Snadder: do you have some larger sml code?
* \sh should sleep 1 1/2 hours...the soccer game with my little one was very exhausting ;)
<bddebian> OK, ghc-cvs in now also on my list of hated packages :-)
<sander> slomo, i'm snadder.. from my laptop.. with an ubuntu installation
<sander> mlton didnt work out
<slomo> sander: ok... wait some seconds for the package ;)
<slomo> mlton?
<sander> ops.. what was the name of the package again?
<slomo> mosml
<sander> ok
<slomo> but it isn't on the ftps
<sander> ok.
<slomo> you can test mine and when it's ok i'll upload it for review ;)
<sander> okok:)
<sander> where can I get it?
<slomo> wait
<sander> ok.
<slomo> http://slomosnail.de/~slomo/
<sander> in 2 min my upgrade of security packages is done.. then i'll give it a shot
<slomo> ok
<slomo> i hope it works ;)
<slomo> small stuff works for me
<sander>  mosml depends on libc6 (>= 2.3.4-1); however:
<sander>   Version of libc6 on system is 2.3.2.ds1-20ubuntu14.
<sander> did you had the other package as well?
<ogra> sander, thats ancient...
<markuman> dholbach, what are you preffer for building packages? dh_make, pbuild or CDBS ?
<ogra> (both)
<ogra> 2.3.5-1ubuntu1 is the current libc6 version
<dholbach> markuman: none of them exlude each other :)
<sander> ogra, I installed 5.04.. from the original cd
<ogra> sander, err, we develop for breezy here :)
<ogra> (5.10)
<sander> lol..
* sander is clueless.. didnt know that.. i'll do an upgrade
<markuman> ok
<sander> maybe someone can post me the sources.list line.. to a mirror which gets updated at once..
<\sh> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu breezy main restricted universe multiverse
<sander> thx
<sander> I dont have time to wait for this atm..
<sander> i'll test it later.. in some hours
<sander> ok?
<sander> need to go out for a while.. upgrade is finnished in 20 min
<slomo> sander: ok
<mbreit> hi guys
<mbreit> lamont: ping
<bddebian> Heya mbreit
<mbreit> hey bddebian
<dcraven> Gah.. These package version numbering conventions make me crazy...
<Yagisan> good night all
<bddebian> @#$%^&#$% ghc-cvs
<slomo> bddebian: don't worry... this package should be morgued anyway
<bddebian> Well it still pisses me off :-)
<bddebian> Who is Corey Burger?
<ogra> bddebian, Burgundavia
<arzajac> Hello.  Flashplugin-nonfree recommends gsfont-x11 and flashplayer-mozilla does not even mentionit.  That package is neccessary to allow flash to show fonts.  Can it be a depends for both package?
<Treenaks> arzajac: flash will show fonts without it
<Treenaks> arzajac: it's just that most flash people don't bother to specify fallbacks
<Treenaks> arzajac: and flash doesn't have a built-in list of those
<Treenaks> but that's what you get for non-free software
<arzajac> So how do you get flash to show fonts, then?  What do you mean by fallbacks?
<bddebian> ogra: Ah, OK, thx
<arzajac> I think I understand what you mean.  Fallbacks are dont aliases created by the person who wrote the flash applet.  Well, many flash sites are improperly made, then.  Installing gsfonts-x11 makes those sites work.  I do not think it has any repercussions anywhere else on one's desktop.
<arzajac> I meant "font aliases" and not "dont aliases"
<bddebian> Burgundavia: ping?
<bddebian> Shit, gotta go.  Later gang
<ivoks> hey ;)
<UbuntuOne> Hi
<UbuntuOne> I guess everybody are working on fixing transitions
<dholbach> herzi, markuman, mbreit, mitsuhiko, ogra, siretart, slomo and all you other lazy germans, could you please join #ubuntu-magazin?
<dholbach> :)
<mitsuhiko> dholbach: jep
<slomo> dholbach: would be easier without the '?' :P
<markuman> ok
<herzi> dholbach: yet another irc channel...
<dholbach> herzi: just for a short time
<dholbach> herzi: don't worry
<mitsuhiko> \sh_away: when comming back join #ubuntu-magazin
<sander> slomo, mosml works very nice..
<slomo> ok... good :) now i only need someone else to review it and it will go up ;) smlnj compiled for x86 so you can install it maybe tomorrow
<sander> nice
<sander> slomo, is it easy to fix that mosml package for hoary too?
<sander> I mean.. just the deb file
<slomo> you mean smlnj?
<sander> I mean that package I tried..
<sander> so my friends dont need to upgrade ubuntu
<sander> to get it working
<slomo> sander: i can make you a hoary version... but it won't be in hoary... hoary only gets updates for security problems
<sander> yep.. thats what I was thinking
<mbreit> slomo: you could submit it to backports, hoary-extras...
<sander> that whould be even better
<slomo> mbreit: ok, i'll talk to mez when he's back ;)
<slomo> sander: for the time beeing you'll get a hoary deb from me... just one minute please
<mbreit> slomo: don't you have upload rights for backports yourself?
<sander> slomo, okok. thanks alot:)
<slomo> mbreit: sure... but i don't know if they changed their policy for -extras etc... i know nothing about the backports status atm ;)
* mbreit wonders if the backports team is still active
<sander> slomo, whould be cool of smlnj will be fixed before next ubuntu version.. but if mosml will be added.. then its np:)
<slomo> sander: smlnj is already fixed for ppc and x86... amd64 will not work because of braindead upstream ;)
<slomo> sander: and mosml will possibly be in breezy
<slomo> sander: the smlnj just need some time until they are on the ftps... seems like they're in binary NEW atm
<mbreit> slomo: can we morgue smlnj on amd64?
<mbreit> i don't think we should ship a non working package...
<slomo> mbreit: why morgue? there is no smlnj for amd64
<mbreit> slomo: bh... forget about that ;))
<slomo> mbreit: but you'll get mosml when you really want to bother again with sml ;)
<mbreit> slomo: i hope that i'll never need that again ;)
<slomo> sander: http://slomosnail.de/~slomo/mosml_2.01-0ubuntu1_i386.deb
<dholbach> good night everybody, sleep tight
<havoc> no v4l in ubuntu's default kernel?
#ubuntu-motu 2005-09-30
<bddebian> Anyone alive? :-)
<ajmitch> hi
<ajmitch> bddebian: seems to be very quiet here today
<bddebian> No shit man.  How are you?
<ajmitch> half alive
<bddebian> :-(  How come?  Too much partying? :-)
<ajmitch> nah, not enough partying ;)
<bddebian> Heh
<_tonio> hi everyone
<siretart> morning
<ajmitch> hi
<siretart> w00t. finally a fixed lyx in unstable :)
<siretart> actually still in incoming..
<ajmitch> now is the orig.tar.gz the same as what we have in breezy?
* siretart checks
<slomo> siretart: we already have a fixed lyx ;)
* ajmitch would prefer to use debian's lyx
<siretart> slomo: I wanted to wait for the debian version. the debian version fixes many bugs
<siretart> plus: away from yada
<slomo> ok, sounds good
<slomo> yada is annoying
<ajmitch> if the orig.tar.gz is different, we may have some troubles
<slomo> then let's hope he used the upstream tarball and nothing else
<siretart> puh. md5sums matches!
<ajmitch> good
<ajmitch> so it'll be easier to sync & drop ubuntu changes
<siretart> I think \sh maintains the tosync list, doesnt he?
<slomo> ajmitch: service discovery applet is uploaded :)
<siretart> perhaps we should establish 'sync managers' ;)
<ajmitch> slomo: good :)
<slomo> good idea... this way elmo didn't get 100000 mails by 100 people who want to sync something but only one mail per day or something
<ajmitch> siretart: bddebian already does that fairly well ;)
<ajmitch> besides, syncs should just matter in the time after UVF
<ajmitch> it'll be open season for auto-syncing once dapper opens
<_tonio> little question, does anyone know a QT based email client that can connect to MS Exchange like evolution does ?
<slomo> ajmitch: infact it was in NEW before it was on revu ;) uploaded to the wrong server first :( but i sent elmo a mail to remove it, he didn't yet so it should be fine ;)
<ajmitch> slomo: heh
<ajmitch> slomo: why ask him to remove it?
<slomo> ajmitch: because it wasn't approved in revu yet
<ajmitch> so?
<ajmitch> just causes more hassle for elmo
<siretart> ajmitch: we should definitly sync debian lyx for breezy
<ajmitch> we can forgive some slip-ups like that, slomo
<slomo> ajmitch: now it is and i send him a mail to keep it...
<siretart> really, I had closer look at lyx, and from what I see from the changelog, the debian one is a must have
<ajmitch> yep
<slomo> siretart: so get it :)
<ajmitch> thank bob2 :)
<siretart> yepp :)
<ivoks> ahm... hr.archive.ubuntu.com - connection refused
<ivoks> us. too
<ivoks> is this only me or something is going on?
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> broken servers
<ajmitch> so i think elmo won't care about s-d-a for awhile ;)
<ivoks> this is bad publicity
<slomo> ajmitch: it's not the only upload in NEW by me ;) and tomorrow will come another
<slomo> ajmitch: and i have some stuff in binary NEW it seems
<ajmitch> slomo: hehe, yeah
<ajmitch> I've hardly done any uploads recently
<slomo> btw... please look out for similar bugs like this one here: https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/2471
<slomo> i think some packages should have same problems
<ajmitch> oh fun
<ajmitch> crack-laden software :)
<zyga> hello
<siretart> ajmitch: what is s-d-a?
<slomo> siretart: service-discovery-applet
<ajmitch> what slomo uploaded
<siretart> ah
<siretart> does anyone know whats going on with us.archive.ubuntu.com? I ask, because it also hosts security.ubuntu.com :/
<aquarius> Where should I file bugs on universe packages? And how can I know whether a package is in main or universe?
<ajmitch> aquarius: https://launchpad.net/malone
<aquarius> ah, malone is all ready and working? I wasn't sure.
<ajmitch> and apt-cache madison <packagename> will tell you if it's universe or main
<\sh> moins
<ajmitch> we've been using it for a few months for universe
<ajmitch> hey \sh
* \sh will never say again: "sleeping 1 hour"
<\sh> my body needed actually 13 hours of sleep *sigh*
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> I had that a couple of weeks ago
<ajmitch> fell into bed & went straight to sleep
<\sh> hehe..yeah..I just wanted to take little timeout and wake up again..but i didn't hear my alarm and this morning I thought.."wow..1 hour sleep and there is daylight" ,-)
<\sh> hu..archive.ubuntu.com is not available?
<vrln> is the breezy security server down? I'm getting a connection refused
<\sh> vrln: archive.ubuntu.com is down
<vrln> oh ok, was just wondering if it's a known issue
<aquarius> ajmitch: I'm confused now; I've tried filing a bug against python2.4-gnome2-extras in malone, but it says that that's an "invalid value".
<ajmitch> aquarius: because it's a package in main?
<slomo> ok... see you later :) bye bye
<aquarius> ajmitch: apt-cache madison says it's in hoary/universe
<ajmitch> ah, hoary..
<aquarius> Oh. Can I not use malone until breezy?
<ajmitch> no, it's just that you're very unlikely to see the bug fixed in hoary
<ajmitch> and malone was setup for universe use for breezy
<aquarius> I agree, and that's fine, but I don't want to file the bug against breezy because I'm not *running* breezy :-)
<\sh> aquarius: so u have to check first, if the bug still exists in breezy ;)
<aquarius> \sh: I can't do that, afaict, without upgrading to breezy, which is a massive no-no for my main machine :)
<aquarius> If someone here would like to test a Python one-liner for me to see if it segfaults in breezy, that'd be really handy :)
<\sh> aquarius: so file the bug at all, tell that u r using hoary, and then someone must confirm the bug for breezy...or it's fixed in breezy ;)
<\sh> aquarius: give me the one liner ;)
<ajmitch> \sh: product isn't loaded in malone, I guess :)
<\sh> ajmitch: doesn't matter...
<\sh> ajmitch: fill in nothing and metion the name in the subject ;)
<aquarius> \sh: yep, but I can't file it anywhere, beccause, I think, it's in universe in hoary but in main in breezy, so I can't file it in bugzilla.ubuntu.com or in malone.
<aquarius> \sh: python -c "import gtk,gtkmozembed;m = gtkmozembed.MozEmbed();m.destroy();g2 = gtk.Window();m2 = gtkmozembed.MozEmbed();g2.add(m2);g2.show_all()"
<aquarius> \sh: you'll need python2.4-gnome2-extras
<\sh> aquarius: segfault
<aquarius> ha. So it's still a bug in breezy, then :)
<aquarius> OK, so where should I file the bug?
<siretart> morning \sh
<\sh> aquarius: bugzilla..it's in main
<\sh> hey siretart
<siretart> \sh: yesterday you said you had a list of packages to sync, right?
<\sh> siretart: yepp
<aquarius> \sh: cheers.
<siretart> \sh: I assume it is not MOTUToSync
<\sh> aquarius: give me the bug-no when u done...and I confirm
<siretart> \sh: could you please add lyx to that list?
<aquarius> \sh: 16281
<\sh> siretart: no...it's in my tomboy note...I'll write a mail to elmo with all packages
<siretart> okay
<siretart> then we should take of the MOTUToSync list. it seems outdated anyway
<\sh> hmm..who checked out gtkpod to sync?
<\sh> have to check the logs
<siretart> hm. lyx does not build in ubuntu, wrong gcc version
<siretart> so adaptions will be necessary anyway. *sigh*
<\sh> siretart: so merge then sync
<\sh> siretart: did u checked gtkpod? if it builds correctly?
<siretart> not yet
<\sh> and works?
<siretart> sorry
<siretart> lyx wants  g++-4.0 (>= 4.0.1-8)
<siretart> ubuntu has 4.0.1-4ubuntu8
<siretart> hmpf
<\sh> siretart: merge it :) and don't lose the changelog entries ;)
<siretart> hm. ubuntu changes can be dopped, so no change necessary
<siretart> it is only about to get the debian version building
<aquarius> \sh: cheers for the confirmation.
<\sh> siretart: ok...
<siretart> gnarf. us.archive.ubuntu.com beeing down is now quite annoying :/
<\sh> siretart: ftp://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu is working
<siretart> \sh: I dont want to fiddle with the pbuilder settings on tiber
<\sh> ah
<siretart> lets hope http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=328684 does not affect ubuntu
<\sh> siretart: doko is the maintainer he has to know :)
<siretart> jupp
<siretart> ajmitch: where did you take the deb of bzr for tiber?
<ajmitch> siretart: look in sources.list
<siretart> ah. thanks
<ajmitch> I put in jbailey's snapshot repository there
<siretart> thanks. I thought he had only daily
<ajmitch> it is
<ajmitch> 0.0.8+20050922-0 is installed
<\sh> siretart: check /home/shermann/getkey.sh please...it should help to add unknown keys to revu
<\sh> siretart: we could distribute it via /etc/skel
<siretart> \sh: has the side effect, that the key ends up in your personal keyring, but is generally fine. I think /usr/local/bin/getkey is a better place than /etc/skel, though
<siretart> hey, archive is back!
<\sh> siretart: well...or we should try to search a solution that it's included directly in the revu key...
<\sh> siretart: so revu-key add 0xkeyid or something
<siretart> I think that including it in the personal keyring first is perfectly acceptable
<\sh> lets see for revu2 ;)
<siretart> revu-key import would be a solution..
<siretart> :)
<siretart> will hack something for revu-key.. lets see
<\sh> siretart: hehe :)
<siretart> \sh: ok, revu-key import 0xdeadbeef should work now
<\sh> siretart: wow..that was fast
<siretart> check the diff, though. keyserver.ubuntu.com is hardcoded
<\sh> siretart: ist keyserver.ubuntu.com irgendwie verbaendelt mit den anderen keyservern?
<siretart> \sh: yes, it syncs with other keyservers
<\sh> *sigh*
<\sh> sorry ;)
<siretart> no problem for me ;)
<siretart> I'm not sure how fast it is, but it sould sync rather quickly
<siretart> wow: gpg: key D70AAFF9: "Matthias Urlichs <smurf@smurf.noris.de>" 956 new signatures
<xerxas> hi
<xerxas> someone using rhythmbox in breezy ?
<xerxas> I don't seem to have gnome-vfs support anymore
<zyga> xerxas: I do
<zyga> xerxas: I'll check the vfs
<zyga> xerxas: nope
<xerxas> zyga: it works ? ,
<siretart> \sh: whats up with jdong?
<bddebian> Heya siretart
<bddebian> Burgundavia: ping?
<\sh> his ubuntu-backports.mirrormax.net should be closed down...more problems then anything else
<\sh> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Hi \sh
<siretart> huhu bddebian
<siretart> \sh: this we keep telling since it existed ;)
<\sh> siretart: yes...but now we have official backports..and he is still fcking around there and breaks the systems
<bddebian> Grr, I'm gonna kill my wife.. :-(
<siretart> \sh: but in general, he seems to read ubuntu-backports@lists.ubuntu.com
<siretart> perhaps you can catch him there
<siretart> bddebian: don't do anything you'll regret later! we still need you, you know
<\sh> siretart: he should read the planet
<bddebian> siretart: I started ANOTHER axiom build before I went to work and she shut-off my machine this morning!!!! :-)
<\sh> bddebian: rotfl
<\sh> bddebian: no point to kill her ;-)
<bddebian> ;-)
<bddebian> D00d, that thing takes HOURS to build :-)
<siretart> bddebian: build on tiber ;)
<\sh> bddebian: dude...this was a sign of her
<\sh> bddebian: start the build and produce one more baby ;-)
* siretart often uses tiber for building packages which need a lot of time..
<bddebian> hahaha, No thanks.  Three is plenty :-)
<\sh> bddebian: when it takes hours...produce 4 new babies ;)
<bddebian> Wouldn't mind "practicing" though ;-)
<siretart> \sh: btw, no need to sync lyx, I'll upload a version with looser dependencies in a minute
<\sh> siretart: k
<\sh> siretart: I'm testing the other syncs
<\sh> bddebian: see...this is the correct solution ;)
<bddebian> Is /usr/X11R6/include still valid?  I only see two .h files in there
<\sh> bddebian: sudo pbuilder build axiom -> WIFE, LET'S PRACTICE ;)
<bddebian> heh
<\sh> ogra
<\sh> OGRA!
<\sh> ok...sync of sylpheed-claws-gtk2 -> denied
<_tonio> \sh: did you have any news concerning amarok 1.3.2 in breezy ? The actual version is really crappy :(
<_tonio> hi evryone ;)
<\sh> _tonio: no...mdz didn't say a word..and he is off now
<\sh> weekend
<_tonio> arf.....
<\sh> _tonio: what is crappy with 1.3.1?
<_tonio> with gstreamer, alsa is unavailable, artsd uses 90% cpu, ands only oss seems to work fine.....
<_tonio> with xine it is ok, I admit
<siretart> okay, lyx uploaded
<_tonio> \sh: but oss......... well if you don't have a card that performs hardware mixing, oss su*** really !
<\sh> _tonio: let's be glad, that 1.3.1 is in breezy after UVF
<_tonio> \sh: UVF ? I don't understand ;)
<\sh> Upstream Version Freeze
<\sh> _tonio: and amarok is main..so it was a risk anyways
<_tonio> I know that ;) but really the gstreamer plugin causes many problem with version 1.3.1
<\sh> _tonio: what problems? only because there is no alsa?
<_tonio> no alsa and arts uses 90% cpu.....
<\sh> _tonio: no..not on my computer, not on riddels
<_tonio> ah ?
<_tonio> strage really !
<\sh> _tonio: are u using beagle?
<_tonio> \sh: absolutly not
<_tonio> \sh: nothing special at all...
<\sh> 10974 shermann  16   0 89352  50m  25m S  6.0 10.0   8:20.35 amarokapp
<\sh> even gnome-terminal uses more cpu-time then amarok
* Lathiat laughs
<_tonio> \sh: hu ???? damn artsd works fine now...
<_tonio> I had the problem last week, we saw that with Riddell and..... well it works ;)
<\sh> _tonio: hmm..infinite loops in your mp3 ? ,-)
<_tonio> \sh: ;) It seems I had a personnal issue last week or something ;)
<\sh> _tonio: btw..amarok-1.3.2 uses more ram then 1.3.1 strange I know
<_tonio> \sh: I have seen that when Riddell asked me to test yes..... but anyway on my computer it was really better ;)
<\sh> _tonio: but 1.3.2 has a nicer volume slider
<\sh> Lathiat: nothing to laugh about ,-)
<_tonio> \sh: I have seen that indeed :)
<\sh> bah..for sylpheed-claws-gtk2 i need a new sync of libetpan
<\sh> _tonio: http://www.last.fm/user/shermann/ <- have a look...it runs and runs
<bddebian> Anyone see a problem with syncing a new zipios++ ?
<\sh> bddebian: u checked it and it has no other rdepends on it?
<tseng> wesnoth and enigma
<\sh> hmmm
<\sh> wesnoth is not working right?
<tseng> i am just posting the depends
<siretart> wesnoth was the first package igor built for sparc ;)
<bddebian> \sh: enigma.. oh
<bddebian> \sh: There is a Malone bug about it
<bddebian> tseng: Did you happen to look at grep-dctrl for any build-deps on libzipios...-dev?
<\sh> siretart: i requested the syncs (gtkpod is ok, so don't ping elmo ;))
<tseng> bddebian: no.
<zyga> is it still possible to add a package to universe once breezy ships?
<tseng> no
<\sh> zyga: no
<zyga> darn... I need to get going then...
<zyga> \sh: will dapper have the same restriction
<zyga> \sh: (I mean... 5 years?)
<tseng> yes.
<zyga> but new releases are still going to happen every 6 months?
<tseng> yes..
<zyga> :-)
<\sh> zyga: main is 5 years on server installs / 3 years for desktop
<\sh> zyga: but universe/multiverse is frozen
<\sh> ogra: moins :)
<ogra> \sh, hey..
<ogra> do you read the ubuntu-de ML ?
<\sh> no
<ogra> lucky you... i'm slowly going mad...
<\sh> ogra: sylpheed-claws-gtk2 doesn't build without a newer version of libetpan
<\sh> ogra: I requested the sync of libetpan first..then sylpheed
<\sh> ogra: link to the archives?
<bddebian> Grrr, I'm beginning to really hate axiom
<ajmitch> just beginning to? :)
<bddebian> ajmitch: Heh
<bddebian> Anyone happen to know why Burgundavia got assigned all the missing .desktop bugs on Malone?  Does he want to do something with them?
<ogra> bddebian, he once started to collect the packagelist for the missing .desktop files...
<bddebian> Well I "fixed" one last night and I want to make sure I'm not stepping on any toes :-)
<havoc> so you guys are all paniced trying to get brezzy out on time?
<ogra> nope... just hard working
<havoc> ok :)
<havoc> when is the official release date?
<ajmitch> oct 13
<havoc> cool, not far off at all
<havoc> I finally have ubuntu on my workstation, but it is far from setup yet :(
<havoc> is there a way to update the menus in gnome/kde after package installation?
<bddebian> Does apt-get.org not keep source packages?
<j^> apt-get.org is not a repository itself, it only provides an index for repositories.
<bddebian> Well aye.  I found babytrans on one if their repos but can't find a source package
<eruin> anyone familiar with building banshee here?
<tseng> yes
<eruin> do you know whether gtk-sharp2 in breezy provides what's needed for ipod-sharp?
<tseng> huh?
<ogra> bddebian, thats common, yo often find only binary packages in the apt-get.org repos, thats why we need to sort and review them before using anything from there
<tseng> eruin: apt-get build-dep banshee;
<tseng> eruin: if there is some reason you cant use our package
<bddebian> ogra: Well babytrans is already in the archive but it depends babytrans-common which is not, nor is the source package.  Morgue it?
<eruin> tseng, the current breezy package crashes badly on connected ipods
<tseng> not mine
<eruin> supposedly fixed in svn
<tseng> yes.
<ogra> bddebian, yup
<eruin> it has something to do with itunes5 db handling/gtkpod db
<bddebian> ogra: OK, thx
<ogra> bddebian, it comes from marillat afaik
<bddebian> Aye
<tseng> oh, you screwd up your ipod
<tseng> yes
<\sh> gtkpod is requested for a sync...
<bddebian> Damnit, gpac is the same problem..
* bddebian starts to fall asleep waiting on axiom build.... 
* havoc is faling alseep reading a *long* RFI :(
* hubW patch pmount *again*
* havoc hates state contracts
<havoc> although it is an oportunity to get ubuntu on *up to* ~600,000 k12 machines
<bddebian> Nice
<havoc> bddebian: yeah, but it's only at the RFI stage right now
<havoc> these things progress *sllllooooooooowwwly*
<zakame> hello all
<bddebian> havoc: I know that feeling :-)
<bddebian> Hello zakame
<havoc> and my company is only a sub
<havoc> for the bidder
<zakame> bddebian, hi! :D
<havoc> if you've ever worked on a state contract you get a very good idea where all of your tax dollars go :(
<_tonio> \sh: http://www.last.fm/user/shermann/ -> I had a look, works nice ;) But really slow for me ;)
<bddebian> ogra: Hmm, I did find source for babytrans-common
<bddebian> Hmm and ffmpeg2 which provides libavcodec2
<bddebian> ajmitch: Hey Mr. Policy, what's your opinion on bringing babytrans-common and ffmpeg2 into multiverse at this stage of the game? :-)  (If they even build of course)
<ajmitch> you're asking me why?
<bddebian> ajmitch: Because you were concerned with UVF and such recently
<bddebian> and because you're smarter than me :-)
<ajmitch> bah
<\sh> bddebian: babytrans-common...there is something why it's not in our repos..
<\sh> bddebian: elmo is the right person...or check the license
<ogra> bddebian, i never looked at babytrans, but i know the package we have is from marillat
* ajmitch is just a lowly MOTU
<bddebian> ogra: Well I have a similar problem for gpac which build-deps libavcodec2-dev wich also comes from marillat from ffmpeg2 source package
* bddebian still wonders why he tries to help
<ajmitch> bddebian: it's 3am here, don't expect any coherent advice from me
<bddebian> Well go to bed homey
<ajmitch> I am  :)
<ajmitch> laptops are great
<\sh> ajmitch: u should sleep .. u r much more worse then me
<ajmitch> \sh: nah
<ajmitch> I'll sleep later in the week :)
<spayne> lo all
<\sh> ajmitch: hehe
* ajmitch is subjecting the laptop to the ultimate dishonour at the moment, running XP
<bddebian> Heya spayne
* spayne is going to have another bash at packaging for Ubuntu
<bddebian> spayne: Awesome
<bddebian> Heya ivoks
<ivoks> hey
<spayne> i have been fiddling with SUSE RPM packaging
<spayne> how does it compare?
<spayne> it seems easier to me
<ivoks> with ubuntu? :)
<spayne> no
<spayne> i chucked openSUSE this morning
<ivoks> ah...
<spayne> all it seems you need to do is write a .spec file
<\sh> spayne: RPMs are lame packages...
<spayne> very true
<spayne> but is it harder/easier on ubuntu in your opinion \sh?
<ivoks> it's harder
<\sh> spayne: debian packages are of higher quality
<ivoks> but it gives better results
<spayne> :)
<ivoks> deb is supirior to rpm
<\sh> spayne: RPMs are just "write here write there and break this"
<spayne> i agree
<ivoks> superior
<ivoks> rpm has some fine features that deb lacks, but when you look it, deb is much more advance
<zakame> yep
<\sh> but beros kde rpm packages for redhat were the high standards of packaging ever ;)
<\sh> We certainly didn't rename
<\sh> ugh
<zakame> many debian pkgs are strictly following debian-policy, which carries over to ubuntu pkgs
<\sh> copy & paste buffer + cleaning the touchpad is evil ;)
<spayne> what were the links to the tutorials on the Wiki for packaging
<ivoks> spayne: google -> debian maintainer guide
<ivoks> hm...
<\sh> spayne: wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
<ivoks> check out this :)
<ivoks> i have wrong time on my comp
<ivoks>  11:42AM
<ivoks> when i do ntpdate
<\sh> need to do some real life work
<ivoks> i get:
<bddebian> \sh: Nahh :-)
<ivoks>  timestamp too far in the future: Sep 25 17:40:38 2005
<ivoks> question. how can i change time then? :)
<zakame> debian-newmaint
<\sh> date ?
<ivoks> \sh: i know, but... ntpdate should work
<\sh> bddebian: of course...I need my pants for tomorrow ;)
<bddebian> heh
<\sh> ivoks: hmmm....
<ivoks> \sh: time-admin freezes
<\sh> strange
<ogra> ivoks, file a bug
<ivoks> ogra: will do
<\sh> use htdate
<ivoks> date doesn't work either :)
<ivoks> major problem, or?
<zakame> how about translation errors on the date?
<\sh> ivoks: hmm..did u installed your ubuntu with the wrong date somehow?
<ivoks> \sh: no
<ivoks> i changed time now
<\sh> hmmm
<ivoks> wanted to test syncronize
<zakame> in Tagalog, September is `Setiyembre', not `Septiyembre'
<spayne> is the debian/rules anything like the .spec fil
<spayne> *file
<spayne> where it defines patches, install, make, distclean etc..?
<ogra> rules isjust a makefile
<\sh> spayne: yes
<zakame> spacey, yep
<zakame> oops, spayne , not spacey
<ogra> rmp spec files are makefiles to ?
<ogra> rpm even
<zakame> ogra, just a bit of it has some make rules, iirc
<bddebian> Aaaaaahhhh I HATE AXIOM
<siretart> ah, jdong is alive :)
<ogra> rules files comply fully to the make standard and syntax, it actually is a makefile, i'm not very familiar with rpm, but i think spec is a mix from rules, control and other stuff in the debian dir
<zakame> true
<ogra> siretart, seems like, he broke a lot of systems recently
<siretart> jupp
<\sh> ogra: no...but it's a bit like it
<ivoks> guess i'll have to restart
<ivoks> :[[[[[[
<siretart> is jdong funny or not?
<ogra> not funny at all
<\sh> ogra: Sep 24 21:02:25 ogra dholbach, der pennt *grmpf*
<ajmitch> siretart: hm? he's alive where? :)
<ogra> i'm very annoyed that there still is a unofficial backports repo, even it was a requitement from us that they shut it down to get their official repo bandwth and buildd access
* spayne wonders if he should be using LVM when installing Breezy
<spayne> ogra: isn't the extras going stay unoffical?
<ogra> spayne, do that only if you use a /boot partition
<siretart> spayne: extras is gone!
<spayne> well, i just choose the LVM option
<ogra> spayne, where is the point for hoary-extras  if they cant ship the illegal stuff anymore ...
<spayne> siretart: has it?
<siretart> spayne: it has some reasons why these 'extras' cannot be included in ubuntu,
<siretart> spayne: do you see them somewhere around?
<ogra> spayne, they apparently were asked by some lawyer to shut it down
<spayne> sirestart: so how do i install RealPlayer then? from .bin?
<marcin_ant> hi all
<siretart> they had realplayer? intersting
<siretart> spayne: I would try the packages from http://debian-unofficial.org rather than jdongs archive. serious
<ogra> so it might have been real's lawyer then :)
<marcin_ant> could someone tell me - or give url to some 'dumb' tutorial how to create patches for dpatch ?
<spayne> the main reason i used it was for RealPlayer. w32codecs, libdvdcss2 and Sun Java
<spayne> but Java is in Multiverse :). How did you get away with that?
<siretart> spayne: sun java is in breezy/multiverse
<ogra> siretart, i doubt they are complied with gcc4
<siretart> ogra: realplayer does not need to be compiled with gcc4
<ogra> siretart, nope, its blckdown and its only 1.4 for 1.5 there is no blackdown package
<siretart> ogra: he did not say java5, just java ;)
<ogra> siretart, it needs to work with our libc, doesnt it ?
<spayne> is it better to use http://debian-unofficial.org or marillat?
<ogra> spayne, neither
<siretart> ogra: we carry libstdc++5 around with us, don't we?
<spayne> how do i install RealPlayer then?
<ogra> siretart, oh, its linked againsa that one ? then i'll shut up now
<siretart> if in doubt and available, I'd rather look if they are in ubuntu, if not then debian-unofficial, and as least choice marillat.
<siretart> ogra: I'm not sure, but there aren't much more possibilities
<spayne> well, RealPlayer is in debian-unoffical
<siretart> well, then try that ;)
<spayne> but it is great than Adobe Reader and Java have made it into multiverse
<siretart> spayne: feedback to the debian-unofficial mailling list is highly appreciated, I read that list
* spayne will install RealPlayer and feed back
<siretart> thanks
<spayne> it installed
<spayne> but no menu icon
<\sh> ogra: but I will complain now towards john...read my mail ;)
<siretart> \sh: already done
<ogra> about the missing support i guess :)
<siretart> I just sent a mail, I hope it is not too harsh
<ajmitch> ah, jdong is alive on the -devel list :)
<siretart> on -devel?
<siretart> you mean on -backports
* ogra mailed backports
* siretart too
<bddebian> ajmitch: I thought you were supposed to go to bed? ;-)
<marcin_ant> spayne, you propably need to restart your panel to have this menu entry
<ogra> bddebian, he already is in bed
<ajmitch> bddebian: I said before, I am :)
<bddebian> Oh hehe
<ogra> marcin_ant, he shouldnt need to
<ogra> gamin cares for it
<ogra> (except realplayer installs its .desktop file in some weird place)
<\sh> siretart: you mail is ok...mine is at least a bit harsh
<siretart> okay
<\sh> siretart: but I mean it...they have the infrastructure now,and they didn't shut it down...this is crap
<siretart> spayne: does it work at all?
<siretart> \sh: he mentioned that he needs his old repo for some left packages. I offered him help for the remaining ones
<siretart> so lets see what happens
<siretart> brb
<marcin_ant> ok guys... please tell me how to create *.dpatch files for debian/patches?
<bddebian> marcin_ant: dpatch-edit-patch is one way
<\sh> siretart: he had the time to backport them from breezy...and we are here as well to help...if he doesn't want to communicate, he should open up his own support base, and get the blame for those issues he made
<ogra> marcin_ant, http://tseng.ath.cx/log/?p=7
<spayne> it works
<spayne> and yes, i have restarted the menu
<\sh> now I'm feeling better ;)
<spayne> siretart: there is a .desktop file in /usr/lib/realplayer10
<spayne> but it isn't installed
<spayne> and doing no good in there :)
<marcin_ant> bddebian, thanks
<marcin_ant> ogra, thanks too
<bddebian> marcin_ant: NP
<ogra> marcin_ant, thanks tseng for writing it :)
<ogra> s/thanks/thank
<marcin_ant> hmm just one thing....
<marcin_ant> I need to patch configure file
<marcin_ant> question is - should I patch configure.in or configure?
<spayne> brb
<marcin_ant> (if configure than I propably should run autogen - right?)
<spayne> has anyone managed to get Skype installed on Breezy?
<\sh> spayne: yes, before the cxx trans
<\sh> spayne: and no after
<\sh> spayne: this is packaging bug of skype
<spayne> i have a dep. problem with libqt3c102-mt
<\sh> yes
<\sh> this is the old qt lib from before the cxx trans
<\sh> the new one is called libqt3-mt
<spayne> the package depends upon libqt3c102-mt
<spayne> \sh: if i grab the tarball, where is a good place to put it? /opt?
<\sh> yepp
<spayne> can it be packaged independtly do you know?
<ajmitch> no distribution allowed, iirc
<\sh> well..you can distribute it after getting the permission
<ajmitch> \sh: which is hardly ideal :)
<spayne> well, could it go into Multiverse?
<\sh> spayne: no
<\sh> spayne: same reason
<spayne> you can't get permission?
<\sh> spayne: for what? skype? hey, use kphone ;)
* spayne is an avid GNOME fan and everyone he knows uses Skype
<spayne> \sh: well i never
<spayne> \sh: the ubuntuguide package works! http://frankandjacq.com/ubuntuguide/skype_1.2.0.11-1_i386.deb
<alisher> Hi guys, can somebody tell me who is responsible for the last version of Lyx 1.3.6-1(breezy), uploaded today?
<\sh> alisher: siretart
<ajmitch> alisher: problems?
<alisher> thank you, it cant be installed, since lyx-common depends on "python (<2.4) but 2.4.1-0ubuntu2 is to be installed"
<ajmitch> ah, should be a quick fix then
<alisher> 1.3.6-0 was ok
<alisher> Ok, I send him an email
<alisher> thk you
<bddebian> Damn, I thought axiom took a long time when it failed.. Sheesh
<siretart> alisher: I just read your email, I'm currently looking into it
<ajmitch> siretart: should be simple fix, since debian has default python at 2.3 still :)
<ogra> still ?
<siretart> ajmitch: yepp, just seen it.
<ajmitch> ogra: sure
<siretart> I know it works with python 2.4
<ogra> sigh
<ajmitch> ogra: not sure if it'll have 2.4 as default or go to 2.5 when it's out
<ajmitch> I know they're about to start mass drops of 2.1/2.2 packages
<ogra> err, how long should etch take ?
<ajmitch> a year or two
<ogra> or three ?
<ajmitch> depends :)
<siretart> ogra: they target 18 months
<bddebian> You know you're pretty sad when you get excited when you have a new e-mail and you think it's from elmo.. ;-P
<siretart> imo it highly depends on how good the agreement about the SCC architectures will be, and how much work the release team will have
<\sh> wow..now I'm fully community integrated ,-)
<ogra> and how good the teams play together and if a developer is responsive and if the weather is bad or good ...
<bddebian> doh
* ogra wont belive it if he doesnt see it
<ajmitch> ogra: cynic :P
<ogra> yup..
<tambaqui> :)
<ogra> in this case i happily admit my cynism
<siretart> hehe
<siretart> I really wish that etch will release before the security support for hoary ends ;)
<\sh> ogra: it works when someone is responding or is available...but if you don't see those people, don't read them etc. pp. it's not working
<ajmitch> siretart: why do you wish that?
<ogra> \sh, exactly ... and thats why debian releases are hard to predict
<ajmitch> siretart: since hoary will be supported for another year & ~ 3 weeks :)
<ajmitch> (for main)
<siretart> ajmitch: well I tried just this week to install sarge on modern hardware. didn't work :(
<siretart> and this really isn't fun
<siretart> :(
<ogra> i heard something similar from Keybuk who wanted to try sarge->breezy
<ajmitch> sarge's base was frozen quite early
<ajmitch> including the kernel
<ogra> yes, etches ago
<ogra> :)
<ajmitch> sadly it's debian's problems that have helped contribute to the growth of ubuntu
<siretart> ajmitch: its not just base. its also the kernel
<ajmitch> siretart: as I said :)
<siretart> ajmitch: the newer kernel was neglected, mainly because of porting problems, read: problems on non main arches, iirc. They had the choice, and choosen the older one
<siretart> which is not bad itself, but this drops support for really modern hardware
<siretart> this sadens me, because I really enjoy using debian!
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> as do I
* siretart having chat via email with jdong about firefox
<ogra> why doesnt he just drop it *sigh*
<siretart> ogra: because he does not understand what a transition package is
<ogra> as Mez doesnt
<siretart> I just explained that to him
<siretart> lets see what he anwers
<ogra> remember that i said that i'd only approve Mez for motu if he'd be capable to create empty packages ?
<ogra> he didnt understand me...
* bddebian hides
<siretart> hm
<siretart> lets see what he answers next
<\sh> ogra: yes
<\sh> damn...I wanted to trim my beard today...now it's dark...
* \sh has to hurry
* ogra imagines \sh trying to shave in candle light
<bddebian> hehe
<ajmitch> uh oh, starting to get light outside
<siretart> quick, vampires, quick! :)
<bddebian> heh
<ogra> \sh, hurry up, if you visit ajmitch now, yu got light for shaving soon ;)
<siretart> oh
<siretart> poor old igor was building gcc-snapshot all the day :(
<tseng> what is this igor business
* ajmitch is starting to feel low on caffiene
<siretart> tseng: igor is a sparc donated to ubuntu for building universe
<ogra> tseng, you never read pratchett ?
<tseng> no
<tseng> i read o'reilly
<siretart> lol
<bddebian> Bill O'Reilly?
* bddebian ducks
<tseng> he's ok
<ogra> in the discworld novels the igors are persons assembled from dead bodyparts, they mostly are servants and live for aloong loong time...
* ogra has had several servers called igor in his life
<siretart> hehe
<ogra> mostly proxys and routers
<siretart> in this case, igor is 'just' a humble buildd
<siretart> if I understood fabionne correctly, he setup one of his private sparc to build breezy main only, and would need more hardware for the rest
<ogra> oh, and igors are good in sewing and fixing themselves ;)
<ajmitch> :)
<\sh> ogra: don't be funnny...i don't have light in my bathroom...only this strange handlight ;)
<ogra> \sh, call the girl from the other side of the street if sh can make some light for you ;)
<\sh> ogra: yuck
<\sh> never
<ogra> heh
* \sh thinks about visiting ogra every time he has to trim his beard...so every 4 weeks ,-)
<ogra> lol
<siretart> ogra has a beard?
<\sh> after 12 weeks I could go as alan cox ,-)
<siretart> lol
<\sh> no I have ;)
<siretart> ah :)
<ogra> siretart, only untils its long enoug to start itching
<ogra> but in fat i shaved the last time when \sh was here... its about time again
<\sh> ogra: lol...only for me? u r so sweet ;)
<ogra> since i got that job i never leave the village... no need to shave
<ogra> ;)
<bddebian> heh
<ogra> \sh, *smack*
<\sh> ogra: hehe ;)
<siretart> I cannot await UBZ to see you folks! :)
* ogra looks forward to it
<\sh> siretart: u will see me before :)
<siretart> hehe :)
<ogra> even if i'm not really after "below zero"
<\sh> siretart: and then I will show you photos of ogra ;9
* ogra HATES snow
<siretart> do you really think it will snow?
<ogra> it will be below zero... pretty sure
<\sh> HILFIGER TIME ;)
<ogra> tere they go
<ogra> *there
<\sh> means I have to dig out my hilfiger jacket and wash it :)
<ogra> heh
<\sh> I'll discuss the interview questions in the meatime with the other folks ;)
<ogra> i'll wear leather as usual :)
<\sh> ogra: jeans rocks ;)
<ogra> to thin
<\sh> ogra: btw...I read the log from your session with the ubuntuusers guys :)
<ogra> :)
<Burgundavia> bddebian, feel free to fix any bugs I have assigned to myself, I am unlikely to get to them
<\sh> ogra: quite interessting :) sitting right now there and discussion some ideas...
<ogra> great
<bddebian> Burgundavia: OK, thanks, I just didn't want to step on your toes :-)
<\sh> ogra: you should get a continous page for writing about your workday as motu and main dev ,->
<ogra> meh
<\sh> ogra: just joking :)
<\sh> ogra: btw...they found a name now..or two...Ikhaya or "Ubuntu Ibhuku"
<bddebian> Damnit, axiom has literally been building for over 4 hours.. :-(
<bddebian> Heya tritium
<tritium> Hi bddebian
<\sh> k guys..good night cu tomorrow :)
<dholbach> hi
<ivoks> 'evening
<dholbach> ivoks: hi ante
<ivoks> hi daniel
<tritium> hi ivoks
<ivoks> hi michael
<ivoks> hi everybody else :)
<dholbach> ;)
<bddebian> Heya Daniel, and ivoks
<ivoks> barry
<bddebian> I'm starting to think that the axiom build is just running in a loop
<dholbach> barry! :)
<dholbach> hm?
<dholbach> does it get killed in the end?
<dholbach> by the don't-run-longer-than-2-hours-thing?
<bddebian> It used to puke on me finding X libs.  I fixed that, now it just keeps on running.
<ivoks> lol
<bddebian> No it's been going for like 5 or 6 hours
<ivoks> openoffice loves that thing :)
<ivoks> oh
* ivoks is in love :)
<ivoks> http://bigbrother.rtl.hr/Uploads/resident/88/Image/182x297.jpg
<dholbach> oh my, big brother in world invasion
<ivoks> hehe
<ivoks> show is stopid
<ivoks> but this girl is cute
<bddebian> OMG it finished!!
<bddebian> And it even built, AND installs.. w000t
<dholbach> bddebian: ROCK ON! :)
<bddebian> Now I just hope I can remember the changes I made so I can upload it.. ;-P
<bddebian> xfree86-common should be xorg-common now right?
<ivoks> too bad firefox can't save on gnome-vfs :/
<bddebian> dholbach: What's your thought on NEW apt-get.org packages?  I have two that I would need to fix some depends on existing packages?
<dholbach> bddebian: that's super, if you'd kindly add the link to your debdiff, it should be alright
<dholbach> just move them to the GO!-section
<dholbach> (with your debdiff)
<dholbach> now i'm curious - which packages are those?
<zyga> hey everyone
<zyga> I'd like a piece of advice
<zyga> I'm about to repackage an existing package for an IM program
<zyga> that's a pure gtk application with rich plugin system
<zyga> I was wondering how would you recommend creating separate packages
<zyga> it supports three im protocols, gadu gadu, jabber and tlen (similar to gadu gadu)
<zyga> it supports sound via esd and arts
<dholbach> repackage?
<dholbach> what do you want to recommend?
<zyga> the package already exists but it compiles one big package + icons package
<zyga> how to split the package
<bddebian> dholbach: ffmpeg2 (probably multiverse) builds libvcodec2-dev which is a build-dep for existing gpac.  babytrans-common is a build-dep for babytrans.
<dholbach> you need to edit debian/control for that and have a couple of <package>.install files
<dholbach> bddebian: i thought we'd chuck out babytrans?
<bddebian> dholbach: That's fine too
<bddebian> We can chuck gpac too for that matter :-)
<dholbach> i thought that's what the guys agreed on
<dholbach> haha :)
<bddebian> I guess I'm not "one of the guys" :-)
<dholbach> we'll have a SLIM universe, when we're finished
<dholbach> but a maintainable ;-p
* bddebian just continues to work on useless shit and hopes axiom doesn't choke out the buildds
<dholbach> bddebian: you rock
<bddebian> Yeah right :-)
<phlaegel> so what's with the mythplugins update yesterday that apparently built but hasn't shown up to actually get installed?
<bddebian> Hmm, fix more crappy unmet deps or easy bugfixes??
<bddebian> Anyone know the status of caudium?
<bddebian> phlaegel: The buildd just says uploaded.  Was it NEW?
<ajmitch> mm, morning people ;)
<bddebian> Morning ajmitch .  Did you ever actually sleep? :-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: sure, probably almost 2 hours
<bddebian> Nice
<siretart> yay. 2 more breezy boxes today :)
<phlaegel> bddebian: it was on the build log as a success
<bddebian> phlaegel: You might want to try to ping lamont or infinity
<bddebian> OK, I know how to add a .desktop file.  What do I do about an icon?
<\sh> bah...I wanted to sleep and office called me
<bddebian> :-(
* bddebian loves talking to himself
<\sh> hehe
<bddebian> Icons just go in /usr/share/icons?
<dholbach> /usr/share/pixmaps?
<bddebian> Hey, you are supposed to be the expert here :-)
<\sh> pixmaps
<\sh> should i try to go to bed again?
<bddebian> Sure
<bddebian> Thx btw
<\sh> phone
<siretart> gn8, \sh
<bddebian> Heya mbreit
<\sh> jesus
<mbreit> hey guys
<\sh> in less an hour two phone calls
<siretart> hi mbreit
<\sh> the week's starting crazy
<siretart> \sh: turn it off ;)
<\sh> siretart: per call 80? no ;)
<bddebian> mbreit: What's up with cheesetracker, does it have build problems?
<mbreit> bddebian: yes, it has
<bddebian> OK
* bddebian is UnmetDeps slave driver ;-)
<mbreit> bddebian: lamont wanted to look at it because it works everywhere but not on buildds :(
<bddebian> mbreit: Ooohh, that's that one
<mbreit> bddebian: ardour has the same problem ;)
<\sh> smoking one last cigarette
<bddebian> OK WTF is going on with axiom on the buildd?  I built it locally fine, now it's dep-wait on gcl
<bddebian> Heya slomo
<slomo> hi bddebian :)
<slomo> bddebian: say lamont to remove axiom from depwait
<slomo> or infinity
<mbreit> bddebian: better tell infinity... he is around more often ;)
<bddebian> slomo: It's a correct dep-wait but I don't have it here locally and yet in built/installed.
<bddebian> It wants gcl (>= 2.6.7-6) and we have 2.6.7-3ubuntu1
<slomo> ok... but in your upload the dep is right?
<bddebian> I didn't change it
<slomo> hmm
<bddebian> It shouldn't have worked in my pbuilder either
<slomo> do you have -6 locally?
<bddebian> Nope, -3ubuntu1
<slomo> ok... so it's maybe -6 in an old upload
<slomo> just tell him to remove it from depwait
<slomo> :)
<bddebian> No I just looked at my source
<\sh> bddebian: could be an old dep-wait status
<\sh> so now..let me try again to go to bed ... night guys
<mbreit> night \sh
<siretart> gn8
<bddebian> Later \sh
<slomo> gn8 siretart
<slomo> err.. \sh_away :)
#ubuntu-motu 2005-10-01
<mbreit> good night everybody
<dholbach> good night everybody, i'm off to bed
<crimsun> cya daniel
<dholbach> bye daniel :)
<xerxas> hi
<xerxas> some using rhythmbox on breezy ?
<xerxas> remote vfs seems to have disappeared
<xerxas> anybody confirms this ?
<bddebian> Anyone use/play falconseye?
<blueyed> Does anyone know who maintains the kimdaba package? Seems to just be converted from debian? Because I'd like to see version 2.1 in breezy. Can I help there out?
<bddebian> blueyed: You might want to try Riddell becuase it rdepends on kde-extras
<bddebian> If he OKs it, I can try to build it
<bddebian> Heya seth_k|lappy
<Riddell> blueyed: go ahead
<seth_k|lappy> hey bddebian
<blueyed> Riddell: so bddebian can build it?
<Riddell> blueyed: if he wants, or you can do it
<blueyed> Riddell: I think it's better if he does, because I've not much experience with building, neither am I a motu.. :)
<Riddell> blueyed: kimdaba 2.1 is in debian, needs a sync
<bddebian> Riddell: Do you already know that it builds OK?
<Riddell> I do not
<bddebian> OK, I'll try it
<blueyed> bddebian: thanks!
<Riddell> very good of you, I'd have just told blueyed to test it :)
<Riddell> I'm off to bed, let me know if you need me
<bddebian> It makes me feel like I"m doing SOMETHING ;-)
<bddebian> Gnight Riddell
<blueyed> night Riddell "!
<blueyed> bddebian: has it worked out with kimdaba?
<bddebian> blueyed: I was in the middle of another build.  I'm pulling the build-deps for kimdaba now.
<blueyed> Is there some docu on what you're doing now?
<bddebian> blueyed: It's pretty similar to this process: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUMergeTips
<blueyed> Will catch up on this someday. Thanks again. I hope it works without problems, cause kimdaba is a really nice app. Good night.
<bddebian> Gnight
<bddebian> blueyed: Well it built successfully, let's see if it installs
<bddebian> Looks OK, I'll ask for a sync
<blueyed> bddebian: Are you using pbuilder on hoary?
<blueyed> bddebian: Great :)
<bddebian> blueyed: No I'm all breezy ;-)
<blueyed> bddebian: I've tried this directly after hoary came out, but it was difficult.. ;) cu
<bddebian> Later
<bddebian> Riddell: You still up?
<bddebian> Damn it's been quiet in here the last couple days
<ajmitch> yeah, I decided it's not the life for me ;)
<bddebian> Heh
<shadoi> ogra: hey, if I have all of our debian files included with the upstream source doesn't that make making a non-native package redundant?
<bddebian> ajmitch: Hey, we need another bug day.  Our list is growing not shriking :-(
<ajmitch> bddebian: so call for another bug day
<ajmitch> bddebian: I'm not worthy for such a task :)
<bddebian> Since when?
<ajmitch> for quite awhile
<ajmitch> interesting visitors in -devel
<Lathiat> heh
* ajmitch needs another decent shot of caffiene
<bddebian> Damnit why to people make comments that bugs are fixed but not close the bugs?
<bddebian> And better yet, why do I keep talking to myself?
<ajmitch> because you don't want to talk to us
<bmonty> bddebian: I just rejected a bug to make you feel better :)
<bddebian> bmonty: :-)
<bmonty> the meeting I have to be at to get accepted as an MOTU is the technical board meeting, right?
<phlaegel> bddebian: falconseye could use a Comment in the .desktop, the tooltip on the menu is blank
<ajmitch> bmonty: and then the MOTU initiation
<bmonty> ajmitch: but the next step in the process is the technical board meeting?
<bddebian> bmonty: Yep
<bddebian> phlaegel: Are you watching me? :-)
<bmonty> do they have they meeting at any other time than 2000?
<phlaegel> bddebian: be afraid
<phlaegel> bddebian: does falconseye work for you?
<phlaegel> bddebian: it just hangs after character selection for me and I have to kill it (makes for a pretty predictable game ;-) )
<bddebian> phlaegel: Hmm. I had a problem exiting but yes I have the same problem after character creation
<bmonty> night all
<bddebian> Gnight bmonty
<bddebian> Heya tritium
<tritium> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Gnight gang
<abarbaccia> hey all - anybody know when the mythtv 0.18.1 plugin packages are going to be updated?
<crimsun> they've already been updated, and they've built successfully
<crimsun> they just need to be moved into the archive
<abarbaccia> crimsun, alright, great
<abarbaccia> thanks!
<\sh> morning
<ajmitch> hi \sh
<Yagisan> siretart: ping
<siretart> Yagisan: pong
<siretart> morning
<Yagisan> siretart: Is the revu recover password script broken ? I didn't get anything to paste into gpg
<siretart> oh. lets see
<siretart> hm. youre right. wait
<siretart> Yagisan: should work again now
<Yagisan> thanks siretart - I wanted to help clarify the raven license issues you mention for deng
<siretart> sorry for the inconvinience
<Yagisan> siretart - no worries
<siretart> ah. great!
<siretart> Yagisan: the problem with the packages is, that, from what I see from the package in debian/licence as well as from source files inside, that those packages are clearly not redistributable
<siretart> I'd really like to see them in ubuntu, but with that raven license, that's not possible :(
<Yagisan> while I agree the raven license is a mess
<Yagisan> it is redistributable - but it can't be commercially redistributed
<Yagisan> their lawyers added that crap standard eula to it
<Yagisan> I can disable the heretc and hexen shared objects
<ajmitch> you'd need to cut out the source, too
<Yagisan> as the seem to be the only parts covered by the raven license atm
<Yagisan> ajmitch - yeah .dfsg the source
<Yagisan> most of the heretic and hexen parts have been or currently are being re-written - but upstream needs a license cluebat
<ajmitch> a rather solid one
<siretart> yeah! jdong asking for help how to do transition packages *g*
<Yagisan> at least they had enough of one to keep the raven code in a seperate module
<siretart> but thats in the same source package, right?
<Yagisan> same tarball yes
<Yagisan> I think it's suitable for multiverse/non-free but if you think it should be repacked - no worries
<siretart> lets see again
<Yagisan> I have until dapper to fix it
<Yagisan> I'm just glad it's not as bad as doom-legacy
<siretart> where is Ravenlic.txt in the source tree?
<Yagisan>  /Docs
<siretart> ah
<siretart> LICENSE CONDITIONS.
<siretart> You shall not:
<siretart> *  Make copies of this Program or any part thereof, or make copies of
<siretart> the materials accompanying this Program.
<Amaranth> wtf
<siretart> I think this one is pretty clear that it's not suitable even for multiverse :(
<siretart> there is even more bullshit in http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/deng-0508231655/deng-1.8.9+1.9.0beta2/Doc/Ravenlic.txt
<Yagisan> Yep - the lawyers were smoking something when they wrote that
<siretart> well, then the further action is clear
<Yagisan> if you have any activision games
<Yagisan> run a diff over the license - it's amusing
<siretart> Yagisan: please repackage deng so that there is no code with this crap licence left. sorry, I don't see any other way
<siretart> yes? what did they change?
<siretart> I assume nothing
<Yagisan> when you run a diff - the only bit left is the source terms
<Yagisan> but activision doesn't seem to repond to emails about the license
<Yagisan> I'll repackage it
<siretart> sure, they don't understand that whole thing about free software and redistributing source
<siretart> but one time, if ubuntu is even more successful, they will haunt lawyers at canonical, because they think canonical (or we) have the money to pay them
<siretart> sorry, we can't play that game
<Yagisan> siretart: please delete  deng-jheretic-ujhrp, deng-jheretic-ui, deng-jheretic-tp,  deng-iwad-heretic-installer,
<Yagisan> deng-iwad-hexendd-installer, deng-iwad-hexen-installer, deng-jhexen-ui, deng-jhexen-xccp  from revu
<Yagisan> as they depend on the soon to be removed heretic and hexen parts - I'll re-add them when upstream fixes their source
<siretart> okay
<siretart> Yagisan: and btw, does it really make sense to split them at that granularity?
<siretart> and you mean deng itself, no?
<Yagisan> I was going to add a note to deng
<Yagisan> and reupload later this week
<siretart> ok, I'll archive that too
<siretart> http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/deng-jdoom-awp-0508180200/deng-jdoom-awp-3.03/debian/copyright
<Yagisan> re: splitting - I think yes because a) multiple upstreams, b) slow machines can't use the models, c) the users emailed me and asked for it
<siretart> btw, this is not enough in any way
<siretart> this copyright file does not state that this files are even distributable
<siretart> distributable is a must requirement for multiverse. and when it comes to license files, we have to assume that anything is denied what not otherwise stated true
<siretart> Yagisan: I'm not really convinced that those reason really justify to split. if you are concerned about this, you could pack all upstream tarballs in a new 'orig' tarball, and extract them at buildtime
<Yagisan> I'll fix the copyright notices on the data packs - but some of the data pack authors are against putting anything more then what is already stated
<siretart> that would make handling and reviewing of these packages easier
<Yagisan> over here it is anything that is not explicitly forbidden is allowed
<siretart> Yagisan: that is sad, because that results then in undistributable :(
<siretart> Yagisan: sorry. this does not work for me, and I don't think for ubuntu/canonical either
<Yagisan> I'll hunt down the forum links that state redistributable
<siretart> perhaps ajmitch can comment on this
<siretart> he is more experienced about license terms
<Yagisan> no worries - it's nothing worth arguing over
<Yagisan> 1st - fix deng - then look at data packs
<siretart> okay
<siretart> good idea
<Yagisan> sorry its 1st - fix network - 2nd fix deng
<Yagisan> one of my pc's isn't turning on anymore :(
<Yagisan> and siretart - thanks for reviewing deng
<siretart> no matter
<siretart> I know that it is a PITA to package comercian games/stuff
<Yagisan> yeah - many of them need cluebats because of stuff like this
<\sh> grpmf
<Treenaks> morning sh
<\sh> morning Treenaks
<dholbach> good morning
<\sh> moins dholbach ... nice post btw :)
<jsgotangco> hi
<dholbach> morning \sh, post?
<\sh> dholbach: your blog post :)
<dholbach> ahh :)
<dholbach> you see, i'm in love :)
<jsgotangco> wow
<ivoks> anyone played with clearlooks-cairo?
<siretart> morning \sh, hi dholbach
<dholbach> morning reinhard
<\sh> hey siretart
<siretart> yay. first upload to hoary-updates :)
<siretart> do we have a defined policy what can go to {warty,hoary,breezy,dapper}-updates?
<\sh> siretart: how did u do it?
<\sh> set release to hoary-updates?
<siretart> \sh: pitti told to do so. yes
<\sh> siretart: hmmm...so we are able to update as well security related packages like clamav?
<siretart> yes, but they need to be reviewed on security-review@lists.ubuntu.com
<\sh> siretart: good to know :)
<siretart> what was again the tool to create empty dummy packages?
<siretart> I know how to use it, but I always forget its name :(
<dholbach> siretart: apt-get source meta-gnome2 :)
<ogra> there is a tool to do that ?
* dholbach didn't know either
<dholbach> please make a note on PackagingTips if you find out again :)
<ogra> (me always uses dh_make on a epmty dir and cleans up /debian)
<dholbach> siretart: equivs-build?
<ajmitch> hi ogra, dholbach
<dholbach> hey andrew
<ogra> hey ajmitch
<siretart> equivs. thanks!
<dholbach> siretart: zgrep -i empty /usr/share/man/man1/* | grep -i package :)
<Tonio-> hi everyone :)
<sistpoty> hi folks
<sistpoty> ping ajmitch
<ajmitch> pong
<sistpoty> ajmitch: did you get my mail regarding motuminutes?
<ajmitch> yes, sorry I haven't replied yet
<ajmitch> minutes look good
<sistpoty> ah, cool... just thought i might have used a wrong email-addy ;)
<ajmitch> nah..
<ajmitch> I've just been rather busy with work
<sistpoty> ok
<sistpoty> does anyone know if gcc is different on the buildds? (like using compiler-cache or s.th.)
<\sh> dholbach: ping <- use kubuntu-team for assigning kubuntu bugs ,-)
<dholbach>  kubuntu-team?
<dholbach> right
<dholbach> will do
<ajmitch> can your team handle the flood of bugs? ;)
<tseng> dholbach: man
<dholbach> tseng: what's wrong? :)
<tseng> dholbach: how many of these beagle defunct process bugs will you assign me :P
<dholbach> tseng: all there are :)
<tseng> if someone searches first it will be a miracle
<dholbach> tseng: i assign them to the "mono team" :)
<dholbach> i guess search is too slow for them :)
<\sh> dholbach: WAIT !!!!!!!!!!!!!
<\sh> dholbach: I have to confirm the mail address *argl*
<dholbach> i assigned a couple of bugs already :-p
<\sh> yeah...u spammed my inbox ;)
<dholbach> tell me when you're ready
<\sh> well...this is not so easy ;)
<\sh> dholbach: how did u add the launchpad address to the mailinglist?
<dholbach> i was the mailing list admin
<dholbach> that made things easier :)
<dholbach> i guess i simply whitelisted it
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> dholbach, the man behind the curtain
<\sh> dholbach: hehe...I'm trying to fix it with riddell
<dholbach> super
<\sh> dholbach: which address is used by launchpad? or just whitelisted bugs.launchpad.net?
<dholbach> let me check
<tseng> *@bugs.launchpad.net
<tseng> it starts with the bug #
<dholbach> yeah, something like that
<ajmitch> oh man, I see dholbach has been very busy on malone
<dholbach> sorry for that
<ajmitch> no, that's good :)
* ajmitch should register the zope team on launchpad
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> i was looking for it already
<ajmitch> for those bugs like 2359
<dholbach> \sh: ^(.*)bugs.launchpad.net
<dholbach> \sh: in privacy options -> accept these nonmembers
<tseng> * $ ${HDR_FROM}.*@bugs.launchpad.net
<tseng> :)
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> * Created missing second .dzproduct file for dzhandle
<tseng> HDR_FROM="^(From[ ] |(Old-|X-)?(Resent-)?(From|Reply-To|Sender|Cc):)(.*\<)?"
<tseng> H_TOCC="((To|Cc):)"
<ajmitch> but that bug says it's not there
<ajmitch> probably a hoary bug then :)
<dholbach> tseng: you're a perfectionist
<tseng> dholbach: :)
<dholbach> \sh: i will re-assign riddell's and amu's bugs to that list, right?
<dholbach> \sh: once you managed it
<\sh> dholbach: yeah...riddell has to fix mailman ;)
<sebest> hi all
<dholbach> hey sebest
<Riddell> \sh, dholbach: done
<\sh> Riddell: thx
<\sh> dholbach: try
<dholbach> did so :)
<\sh> dholbach: so i can delete the old bugs...did u reassign them?
<dholbach> delete bugs?
<\sh> dholbach: I have a bunch of assign kubuntu-team bug mails now, directly address to me (cause I was the team creator)
<\sh> dholbach: these bugs ;)
<dholbach> some didn't get through to the list
<dholbach> because you hadn't managed it yet
<\sh> dholbach: ah sht I forward them to the list
<dholbach> but *shrug* that's life
<dholbach> in malone there's a "view bugs of this team" view
<sebest> dholbach, i read your mail about the "desktop team"
<\sh> dholbach: yeah...but when the contact address is not confirmed, malone send all mails to the team creater, which is me ,--)
<\sh> dholbach: and now I'm searching the *censored* bounce function in evolution
<\sh> don't tell me evolution doesn't have a "bounce to" function *grrrr*
<ajmitch> :)
* ajmitch mutters - looks like the supposed fix for zope-ldap didn't really work
<sebest> dholbach: how does the  "desktop team" fit with gnome usability problem. For example when a user report a usability problem, he should assign it to the "desktop team" and the DT should fix it, or report the bug upstream?
<dholbach> sebest: depends
<dholbach> sebest: these are always cases for discussion
<dholbach> sebest: we don't want to divert from upstream too much, but in case we have a majority of users complaining, ...
<dholbach> sebest: you think the announcement text is alright?
<sistpoty> ' \sh: do you know what package the run-command (alt-f2) belongs to?
<torkel> \sh: Message->Redirect
<ogra> sistpoty, gnome-panel afaik
<sistpoty> ogra: in kde actually ;)
<ogra> heh
<ogra> kde-panel ? *g*
<ajmitch> sistpoty: kdesktop iirc
<ajmitch> sorry, that's the program..
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> ok, looks like it's the package name too :)
<\sh> torkel: yeah...but not 20 of them...this is not possible somehow
<ajmitch> \sh: use mutt ;)
<\sh> oh shit
<\sh> oh shit
<\sh> moderated list
<ogra> oh shit ?
<\sh> and I pushed now >10 mails towards
<ajmitch> you realised that your life has been wasted & you have to switch back to GNOME?
<ogra> *g*
<\sh> ajmitch: no..kmail is much more usable then evolution today
<tseng> hide
<sistpoty> woohoo, another kmail user out there... i thought i was the only one *g*
* tseng wonders where mythplugins is
<tseng> it built
<dholbach> \sh, Riddell: does the mail thing work now?
<\sh> sistpoty: well...actually I'm trying to live with evolution
<ajmitch> binary NEW
<tseng> oh
<dholbach> \sh, Riddell: did you get some mails from malone already?
<\sh> Von: 	Daniel Holbach via Malone <968@bugs.launchpad.net>
<\sh> Antwort an: 	Daniel Holbach via Malone <968@bugs.launchpad.net>
<\sh> An: 	kubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com
<\sh> Betreff: 	[Bug 968]  File conflicts during upgrade
<\sh> yes
<dholbach> right :)
<Riddell> dholbach: plenty
<ogra> dholbach, spammer :p
<\sh> I love my cyrus imapd with sieve
<dholbach> yeah :)
<sebest> dholbach, about the announcement, i think it's fine, but maybe it's just me but the limit between things related to desktop and things related to ubuntu is not clear, because i think that for a lot of people ubuntu is the desktop, for example does things like exa, looking glass, xgl, belongs to goals of the desktop team?
<dholbach> sebest: that's a valid question - i think that's something we should discuss in there
<ajmitch> sebest: announcement?
<sebest> yes, i think we should try to clarify our perimeter
<sebest> ajmitch: the annoucement of the ubuntu desktop team
<ajmitch> ah
<dholbach> sebest: we should have a meeting within dapper release cycle to clarify this
* ajmitch must have missed that one :)
<dholbach> ajmitch: it's not out yet
<dholbach> Riddell, \sh: done
<\sh> dholbach: zjx
<\sh> aeh thx
<dholbach> de rien
<Riddell> dholbach: thanks
<tseng> dholbach: still here?
<havoc> does canonical host archive.ubuntu.com on their own, or is it a round-robin mirror system?
<tseng> its a single host
<havoc> ack
<tseng> in the UK data center
<tseng> there are many unofficial mirrors
<havoc> means single connection, which I assume they pay for themselves
<havoc> not cheap :(
<tseng> canonical has millions of dollars in the budget
<havoc> I suppose
<tseng> dont worry yourself too much about it.
<havoc> still doesn't make the bandwidth any cheaper ;)
<siretart> havoc: you want to host a mirror? ;)
<havoc> siretart: would if I could
<havoc> I was just curious
<havoc> I imaging that as ubuntu grows in popularity it will have to be mirrored
<havoc> I want an ubuntu mirror at mirror.cs.wisc.edu :)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bddebian> Anyone feel like doing me a quick test?
<siretart> havoc: there are <..>.archive.ubuntu.com
<siretart> havoc: de.archive.ubuntu.com != us.archive.ubuntu.com, e.g.
<siretart> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya siretart
<havoc> siretart: ah, so it's not all on a single amchine
<siretart> no
<havoc> that makes more sense :)\
<Nafallo> havoc: those CC.a.u.c that haven't applied for being THE mirror for that country points to archive.ubuntu.com :-).
<havoc> ok, time for meeting, bbl
<siretart> bddebian: what quick test? how quick?
<Nafallo> hmm, CC is tomorrow. what meeting then? :-P
<bddebian> siretart: Just install wings3d and start it from a command line and see if it pukes on libsdl-erlang
<siretart> bddebian: so, no breezy at hand atm
<siretart> sorry
<bddebian> siretart: NP, thx
<bddebian> "Nobody loves me, everybody hates me, I'm gonna eat some worms" :'-(
<bddebian> ;-P
<bddebian> Hey WTF is up with you MOTU types? It's been too damn quiet in here lately :-)
<Yagisan> bddebian: they've tired themselves out fixing bugs. perhaps we should poke a few of them awake
<bddebian> Yagisan: Aye ;-)
<Yagisan> bddebian: so whats up ? I'm having a shit of a day myself. I've had two pc's break
<bddebian> Yuck. :-(
<bddebian> I'm at "work" ;-)
<Yagisan> I'm always at work
<Yagisan> either I'm fixing the customers systems - or I'm fixing mine
<Yagisan> brb - baby
<bddebian> Heh
<dholbach> re :)
<bddebian> wb dholbach
<Riddell> bddebian: how was kimdaba?
<bddebian> Riddell: I'm waiting for sync from elmo :-)
<bddebian> Riddell: I meant to ask you why you dropped kdelibs4 from the existing package though?
<Yagisan> bddebian: the only good thing that happened today was the email confirming the updated prelink packages for hoary
<bddebian> Ah :-)
<bddebian> dholbach: sabdfl just said he thinks we should bring in babytrans-common and ffmpeg2 if we "can".
* bddebian doesn't do licensing crap
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> license-wise
<dholbach> mjg59 and elmo are experts there
<bddebian> Grrr :-)
* bddebian thought dholbach was expert on EVERYTHING ;-)
<dholbach> bddebian: far from it
<bddebian> dholbach: If you ever get a sec I'd like to talk to you privately
<dholbach> sure
<bddebian> Now?
<Riddell> bddebian: because build-dep shouldn't use kdelibs4, it should use kdelibs4-dev
<dholbach> bddebian: yeah
<Riddell> bddebian: and that broke when kdelibs4 changed to kdelibs4c2
<bddebian> Riddell: Ohh, I missed that part ;-)
<Riddell> bddebian: so did the debian packager :)
<bddebian> Riddell: Well the sync just came in so we'll see if I missed it in the sync too :-(
<Riddell> "Build-depends cleanup. Thanks to Ubuntu developer Jonathan Riddell"  hopefully that means he included my change
<bddebian> Aye :-)
<bddebian> Can anyone with a current breezy setup do me a quick test???
<sivang> bddebian: I have a chroot?
<sivang> bddebian: can it help?
<bddebian> If it can do X :-)
<sivang> bddebian: it can
<bddebian> sivang: Awesome, could you just install wings3d and start it from a terminal and see if you get an error on sdl_driver.so?
<dholbach> bddebian: i'll do it too
<sivang> bddebian: in progress
<sivang> bddebian: ETA 8Minutes
<sivang> 2
<bddebian> dholbach: Thx.  It should be pulling the latest libsdl-erlang I uploaded last night (ubuntu1 version)
<dholbach> it did
<bddebian> Did it work?
<dholbach> just a sec
<bddebian> Oh sorry
<sivang> dholbach: how do you have such a quick network connection?
<sivang> The following NEW packages will be installed:
<sivang>   erlang erlang-base libsdl-erlang tcl8.4 tk8.4 wings3d
<sivang> bddebian: okay?
<bddebian> sivang: That should be fine, but libsdl-erlang should be x.x.x-xubuntu1 ;-)
<dholbach> sivang: i'm quite happy the download is quite fast on my new connection
<dholbach> sivang: the upload unfortunately isnt
<sivang> oh whee
<sivang> a nice one,
<sivang> http://live.gnome.org/JhbuildOnUbuntu
<sivang> bddebian: hmm,
<sivang> =ERROR REPORT==== 26-Sep-2005::15:44:00 ===
<sivang> Error in process <0.31.0> with exit value: {"No suitable OpenGL mode found (are OpenGL drivers installed?)",[{wings_init,video_mode_failure,0},{wings_init,init,0},{wings,init,1}] }
<sivang> dholbach: how much downstream?
<dholbach> 450K/s
<bddebian> sivang: Hmm, that's new :-)
<sivang> bddebian: maybe it's a chrrot thingy?
<bddebian> sivang: Could be.  At least you don't get the sdl_driver.so error which was the bug.  So thanks.
<sivang> bddebian: no prob
<sivang> bddebian: glad to be of service when I'm at work and longing for my Ubuntu activites :)
<bddebian> ;-)
<siretart> \sh_away: ping
<xerxas> some knows how to run NetworkManager in debug mode ?
<blueyed> bddebian: have you uploaded kimdaba 2.1 to breezy? I cannot apt-get source it.
<xerxas> can someone on breezy help me ?
<xerxas> I'm trying for 5 days to know if I have a problem of my own or if I hit a "bug"
<bddebian> blueyed: Yep
<dholbach> don't ask to ask, go ahead, xerxas and you'll see
<dholbach> :)
<bddebian> blueyed: It just synced this morning so give it a bit to hit the archive.
<xerxas> dholbach: I have nothing to sa
<xerxas> say
<xerxas> seb128 answered me :)
<dholbach> i see
<xerxas> and It's a reported bug :)
<dholbach> yeah, he knows bug numbers by heart
<dholbach> he's incredible
<xerxas> dholbach:  :)
<xerxas> is there something I can do right now ?
<xerxas> dholbach:  do you easly understand launchpad ?
<xerxas> it's interface is special , I never know where I am , where I should go to find something
<dholbach> xerxas: you should ask bddebian - he's the MOTU workload coordinator :)
<xerxas> I don't get the concept right now
<dholbach> xerxas: you should file bugs about malone itself then
<xerxas> dholbach: launchapd is zope / cmf / plone based ?
<dholbach> that might make it easier
<xerxas> dholbach:  why not
<dholbach> or talk to the guys in #launchpad
<xerxas> if it's zope based I can do some code
<xerxas> I have already worked with zope
<dholbach> they take care of it
<xerxas> dholbach:  right now I'm using xchat-gnome , I found translations , but it's not tranlated at all
<xerxas> howcome ?
<xerxas> not merged yet ?
<bddebian> dholbach: Heh
<dholbach> xerxas: hm, i have no idea
<dholbach> bddebian: :)
<xerxas> bddebian:  what should I work on ?
<bddebian> dholbach: Yeah, I'm coordinating with me, myself, and I ;-P
<dholbach> bddebian: that's a not trivial piece of work :)
<xerxas> dholbach: on launchpad there are a lot of links that says permission denied
<bddebian> xerxas: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseUnmetDeps or bug triaging on Malone would be nice
<xerxas> would be better if links don't show  I think so
<xerxas> bddebian: k
<siretart> bddebian for president! :)
<bddebian> shiite :-)
<xerxas> :)
<siretart> :)
<bddebian> xerxas: How's your C/C++ foo?
<abarbaccia> anybody here use fspot with breezy?  the rotate feature gives an error
<bddebian> xerxas: Or if your script foo ROCKS, I'd love to get a shot of what packages we have source sitting in the archive but don't have the binaries for? :-)
<bddebian> Hey ajmitch, what's your bugcount now?? ;-P
<xerxas> bddebian: not too good in c , c++ but I have some knowledge in shell and python
<xerxas> bddebian: how should I do this ?
<bddebian> xerxas: Do what?
<xerxas> how can I find source packages sitting that don't have binaries ?
<xerxas> ftp ? http ?
<bddebian> That's a darn good question :-)
<xerxas> or apt ?
<bddebian> You can use apt-cache dump |grep Package: to get a list of packages
<xerxas> how can I find all sources packages , all binary packages
<bddebian> I'm not sure how to get a dump of source packages
<xerxas> a list of binary pacakges ?
<xerxas> ok
<xerxas> will look at that
<xerxas> is there some ressources for this on any wiki ?
<dholbach> bddebian: i'm sure ajmitch is counting bugs in his sleep :)
<xerxas> so that we can gather information to do it?
<xerxas> s/?//
<bddebian> dholbach: ;-)
<bddebian> xerxas: No, afaik, it doesn't exist yet.  It's just a pet project of mine ;-)
<bddebian> xerxas: If you'd rather help with UnmetDeps, that's great too
<jamessan|work> /var/lib/apt/lists might help
<xerxas> bddebian:  I'm looking on both right now
<xerxas> but I don't have a lot of knowledge
<xerxas> what's the difference between unmet and source packages that don't have binary packages ?
<xerxas> probably those binary package don't have any package that depends on them ?
<bddebian> xerxas: UnmetDeps are binary packages that are built and in the archive but cannot be installed because of a dependency on anoher binary package
<bddebian> Heya ivoks
<ivoks> hi
* ivoks wants to be a part of Desktop Team :)
<ivoks> i tried xcomposite and cairo today...
<bddebian> xerxas: My thought on the source vs binary list is that there are some source packages just sitting out there that never built successfully and therefore are not in the archive.
<bddebian> ivoks: brownoser ;-P
<xerxas> bddebian:  ok
<xerxas> bddebian: there are no reports of builds ?
<ivoks> bddebian: ?
<bddebian> xerxas: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs
<bddebian> ivoks: I'm kidding you :-)
<ivoks> ah...
<bddebian> xerxas: Or another handy thing might be a wiki page that shows packages that are broken on X architecture.  I think you could get that from the link I just posted there too. :-)
<bddebian> Of course I'm just spouting thought.  I may be totally full of shit :)
<bddebian> s/thought/thoughts
<abarbaccia> do breezy extra repos exist yet?
<ogra> abarbaccia, ??
<abarbaccia> you know the hoary-extra and hoary-backport repositories
<abarbaccia> do they exist for breezy yet
<dholbach> no
<dholbach> because breezy isnt released yet
<ogra> abarbaccia, ask that at the backports team
<abarbaccia> dholbach, alright thanks
<ogra> we are not related to the -extras stuff at all
<dholbach> how can there be backports for something that's not there yet? :))))
<abarbaccia> lol - so true
<abarbaccia> but extras....
<ogra> thats from the unofficial backports
<dholbach> extras contain stuff we can't ship, due to license problems
<dholbach> and won't likely ever ship
<ogra> and since they got legal problems with hoary-extras now, i think they wont go on with them... lets see :)
<ogra> (they already had to wipe w32codecs and decss2 so -extras is somewhat pointless, since we ship all the rest in multiverse now)
<thesaltydog> how can I add an attachment to a comment in malone?
<markuman> hi, ive got some problems $PKG_CONFIG --exists --print-errors "gnome-bluetooth >= $BLUETOOTH_REQUIRED"
<markuman> Package gnome-bluetooth was not found in the pkg-config search path.
<ogra> abarbaccia, but jdong is in -devel i think, you can ask him directly, its his private repo
<dholbach> markuman: you have libgnomebt0-dev installed?
<thesaltydog> is there any way to attach an strace (as an attachment) to a malone bug?
<dholbach> markuman: config.log should maybe help too
<thesaltydog> soory... found!
<dholbach> thesaltydog: i never attached files to it, but i saw some links in there already
<thesaltydog> dholbach, yes, gotcha!. Sorry again
<markuman> dholbach, thx a lot
<xerxas> <bddebian> I'm not sure how to get a dump of source packages
<xerxas> bddebian: you have any idea ?
<bddebian> xerxas: No unfortunately :-(
<bddebian> Ohh, wait
<xerxas> bddebian:  can we set a wiki page that gather informations about that ?
<xerxas> which says what is it, what is it for, how we can do it ?
<bddebian> xerxas: We should be able to grep the Sources file.  Maybe with grep-dctrl?
<dholbach> what are you trying to find?
<xerxas> the Source file ?
* bddebian is a clueless (l)user
<bddebian> dholbach: All source packages
<dholbach> what do you exactly want to do?
<dholbach> a list of all source packages available?
<bddebian> See if we have source packages in the archive with no corresponding binary
<bddebian> Or version differences, such as I ran into with libsdl-erlang yesterday
<dholbach> sounds like a case for python-apt :)
* bddebian doesn't know python-apt
<dholbach> if you look at /usr/share/doc/python-apt you find a couple of examples which should be cool to modify and change
<bddebian> xerxas: There ya go ;-)
<xerxas> dholbach:  I had already an ipython opened
<xerxas> with an import apt written
<xerxas> :)
<dholbach> :)
<xerxas> thought I don't know python-apt
<xerxas> and googling for docs
<xerxas> /usr/share/doc/python-apt is a good advice
<dholbach> yeah
<xerxas> bddebian:  I have a problem while rebuilding euro-support (from unmet.txt)
<dholbach> we should probably drop euro-support :)
<xerxas> a problem with gpg keys
<bddebian> xerxas: So fix it ;-P
<xerxas> :)
<xerxas> bddebian: I don't know nothing about gpg and debs
<\sh> xerxas: a problem with what?
<siretart> \sh: ah, there you are :)
<xerxas> gpg: skipped "Javier Fernandez-Sanguino Pen~a <jfs@computer.org>": secret key not available
<xerxas> gpg: [stdin] : clearsign failed: secret key not available
<siretart> \sh: did you request a sync of gtkpod?
<\sh> I'm not here...I'm still asleep
<\sh> siretart: yep
<\sh> siretart: u asked me to do so ;)
<xerxas> \sh:  can you help  ?
<dholbach> xerxas: that's normal (if you didnt do the last changelog entry)
<\sh> xeras: debuild -S -k<your key id>
<siretart> \sh: aah, thats the reason I appear in the Changed-By: Field
<dholbach> xerxas: you are not javier and dont have his gpg-key
<\sh> siretart: yepp
<xerxas> I don't have a gpg key
<bddebian> xerxas: How are you trying to build?
<\sh> xerxas: create one :)
<xerxas> I can generate one but it's not signed yet
<siretart> \sh: ok, then everything is okay. I was just a bit confused
<dholbach> you should create one
<\sh> siretart: hehe :)
<dholbach> xerxas: zyga is the new GPG master
<xerxas> \sh|dholbach: I must be signed ?
<xerxas> it
<\sh> siretart: i checked it before I requested the sync..so elmo synced it to my request ;)
<dholbach> xerxas: if you want to upload it yes, else no
<siretart> ok, then everything is clear now
<zyga> dholbach: :-)
<zyga> xerxas: do you need help with GPG :-)
* dholbach hugs zyga 
<zyga> BTW: someone could help me to understand how to configure dput so that I can finally upload my precious package and use my precious signed key :-)
<zyga> I *did* read the wiki
<bddebian> zyga: To REVU or Ubuntu?
<zyga> bddebian: REVU
<bddebian> zyga: What problem are you having?
<zyga> bddebian: I'm sure the package has some rough edges though
<zyga> bddebian: nothing that I could simply ask for yet, I have to work on darn job stuff now, I'll ask real questions when issues are verbalized
<xerxas> zyga:  yep
<xerxas> where should I start ?
<bddebian> zyga: OK
<xerxas> zyga: gpg --gen-key ?
<zyga> xerxas: I wrote a wiki about that ;-) I should help you
<zyga> yes, you need a key
<xerxas> zyga: where is it ?
<xerxas> zyga:  I must get it signed , or I can use it without it being signed ?
<zyga> just a second :)
<xerxas> np
<zyga> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GetYourKeySigned
<zyga> :-)
<xerxas> k
<zyga> xerxas: if you have any issues just ask, I'll update the wiki with your suggestions
<xerxas> zyga:  grat
<xerxas> zyga:  It must be signed by a ubuntu-dev so that I can upload ,right ?
<zyga> not really
<zyga> it must be signed by someone whos identity is not questionable
<xerxas> ok
<zyga> a known debian developer will do
<xerxas> but I must meet him
<zyga> yes, that is absolutly required
<xerxas> I can sign it later and work with an unsigned one ?
<zyga> the idea about signing is so that others will know that you are the person you claim to be
<zyga> yes, but things like REVU will require a signed key
<xerxas> k
<xerxas>    (1) DSA and Elgamal (default)
<xerxas>    (2) DSA (sign only)
<xerxas>    (5) RSA (sign only)
<xerxas> 1 ?
<zyga> One moment
<zyga> there is an excelent page that will guide you through this
<xerxas> I'm updating you're wiki page
<zyga> http://www.gnupg.org/documentation/howtos.html
<zyga> check the mini howto in your preferred language
<zyga> you can probably skip the first two chapters
<zyga> but I recommend reading about the concepts later
<xerxas> I'm not really interested in cryptography and gpg signing and botherring with that
<xerxas> sure it's important, but I want to work for ubuntu
<xerxas> I'll update the wiki page with generic informations
<xerxas> so that people don't spend time
<zyga> okay but it's useful to know *how* signing helps, what it does and does not do
<xerxas> I think I have a general vision of what it does and what it doesn"t
<xerxas> not sure
<xerxas> I allows to be sure of someones identity
<xerxas> and It probably can also encrypt mail content
<xerxas> right ?
<zyga> it can make sure the content was not tampered with
<xerxas> zyga:  key does not expire, is it ok ?
<zyga> IMHO yes
<zyga> but that depends on your setup
<zyga> I set my work key to expire after 6 months as I didn't know if I'll ever be employed there again
<xerxas> and then ?
<xerxas> you generate new one ?
<siretart> no, you can extend an existing key
<xerxas> k
<siretart> I personally find non expiring key less trustworthy
<siretart> but YMMV
<\sh> siretart: u can revoke it every time
<siretart> \sh: jepp. but only my own keys ;)
<zyga> \sh: as long as you have the certificate - some people can loose them or don't have them at all
<xerxas> I don't have a passphrase
<xerxas> need to find one I'll remember
<zyga> xerxas: set it to anything you like, you can change it later
<xerxas> ok
<xerxas> zyga:  ?
<xerxas> should I save the output ?
<zyga> xerxas: output of?
<zyga> gpg --gen-key?
<xerxas> yep
<zyga> hmm I don't remember... I don't think so
<xerxas> I have done it in case ...
<dholbach> no, you don't need it
<dholbach> gpg --fingerprint <yourmailadress> should give you all you need
<dholbach> but for my first key, i saved it too :)
<dholbach> (just in case)
<xerxas> zyga:  the upload with hkp:// is done with /bin/gpg ?
<xerxas> or manually ? on the site ?
<xerxas> dholbach:  :)
<dholbach> gpg --send-key <keyid>
<zyga> with gpg
<dholbach> or send-keys?
<zyga> :-)
<zyga> gpg --send-key
<xerxas> what's my keyid ?
<zyga> gpg --send-keys, sorry
<zyga> xerxas: your name is fine
<xerxas> it's written in the output ?
<xerxas> ok
<zyga> gpg --send-keys your name
<Evaso> any news about the totem crash with gst-ffmpeg when playing divx?
<markuman> dholbach, my key is now signed :-) now i have to contact sireart for revu and have to get on whitelist?
<zyga> xerxas: source /etc/bash_competion
<zyga> that helps with all the --commands
<xerxas> yep
<xerxas> should be done by default in ubuntu :)
<dholbach> markuman: yeah http://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU and http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Uploads for whitelist
<zyga> markuman: hmm does that mean you are now the GPG master? ;-)
<xerxas> zyga:  what's a key id ?
<dholbach> zyga: or edit ~/.bashrc and enable it :)
<siretart> for having your key added to revu keyring, please mail requests to keyring@tiber.tauware.de
<xerxas> or /etc/bashrc |/etc/profile
<xerxas> :)
<markuman> zyga :-)
<xerxas> how do I find my keyid ?
<zyga> xerxas: --list-keys
<xerxas> gpg --list-keys don't give it
<xerxas> zyga: don't seem to find it
<zyga> I'll show you mine
<xerxas> pub   1024D/BC083C5A 2005-09-26
<xerxas> uid                  xerxas <xerxas@gmail.com>
<xerxas> sub   2048g/D60A4283 2005-09-26
<zyga> ah
<zyga> then your key id is BC083C5A
<xerxas> ok , thanks
<zyga> well strictly speaking...
<zyga> your key id can be specified in a number of ways - the manpage will help here
<zyga> that's a part of the fingerprint
<dholbach> we should have a HOWTO on the wiki :)
<spayne> yo all
<dholbach> i once wrote a german one, maybe i'll find the time to translate it soon
<dholbach> hey spayne
<bddebian> Heya spayne
<bddebian> blueyed: Still here?
<dholbach> spayne: i just fixed nautilus-sendto for bluetooth :)
<spayne> nice
<spayne> new package?
<dholbach> it's been there for ages
<dholbach> but the functionality nautilus-send-to-bluetooth had travelled from gnome-bluetooth to nautilus-sendto
<xerxas> zyga:  nevermind
<xerxas> works
<xerxas> gpg --send-keys `gpg --list-keys |head -n3 |tail -n1  |cut -d' '  -f4 |cut -d'/' -f2`
<xerxas> will write that on the wiki
<zyga> xerxas: gosh!
<zyga> xerxas: no no ;-)
<xerxas> if output of gpg doesn't change
<xerxas> this will send the 1st key
<ogra> xerxas, it will with every key you add...
<xerxas> not the good one ?
<xerxas> ok
<ogra> you need the username in there to get only your own
<xerxas> but for user who never generated any key this will work
<ogra> yup
<zyga> xerxas: just describe what a key id is
<zyga> an output of your --list-keys with bold/strong part of the keyid is far better
<zyga> as the user will now know what keyid is, not just some longish cryptic command
<xerxas> zyga:  you're right
<xerxas> my output is fine or therer are some security concerns ?
<xerxas> will change my mail so I won't receive spam
<zyga> it is fine, the only stuff there are the public parts
<xerxas> what I saw , but never sure
<blueyed> bddebian: pong
<xerxas> can I have some <pre> or <code> in the wiki ?
<zyga> xerxas: no, you need to use wiki markup
<blueyed> Someone tries to create a .deb for a web application, which depends on php. Can you take care of when php is installed from source in the package's depends?
<bddebian> blueyed: Yes
<bddebian> blueyed: Has kimdaba shown up yet?
<xerxas> zyga:  I have a conflict with you on the wiki , did I remove some information that just put in  ?
<blueyed> No..
<dholbach> xerxas: there is already UnsignedGpgKey on the wiki :)
<zyga> xerxas: I added links section
<zyga> xerxas: I didn't know you were already editing, sorry
<dholbach> xerxas: {{{ }}} is your friend
<zyga> dholbach: hmmm
<blueyed> bddebian: I use "apt-cache showsrc kimdaba" and grep for "Version", after apt-get update.
<\sh> blueyed: if it's a php application, you need php as install dependency, not as build-dep
<zyga> dholbach: those two pages could be merged
<xerxas> dholbach: UnsignedGpgKey ?
<blueyed> \sh: but that would require to have php packages installed, wouldn't it?
<dholbach> yeah http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UnsignedGpgKey
<dholbach> and we should link them from all the MOTU pages we point people to
<\sh> blueyed: no...php apps are only source files which are installed somewhere...but when they're installed, php is installing as well, as interpreter of those pages...
<\sh> blueyed: have a look on phpmyadmin
<bddebian> blueyed:
<bddebian> kimdaba:
<bddebian>   Installed: (none)
<bddebian>   Candidate: 2.1-1
<bddebian>   Version table:
<xerxas> dholbach: can I have bold inside {{{}}}
<xerxas> ?
<dholbach> '''{{{$ cryptic command --bla }}}''' :)
<blueyed> \sh: sure. But it is rather common IMHO to just install php from source (not deb-src). Isn't it? So the web app requires the packages, though the server already can interpret php (without php .deb packages).
<xerxas> dholbach:  and if I want bold text in the cryptic command , I simply can't , right ?
<dholbach> xerxas: try, there's a preview button - i don't know for sure
<xerxas> it prints '''
<xerxas> nevermind
<\sh> blueyed: Idon't understand...if you're packaging only .php files, u don't need php to be installed via build time...you need it installed via install time, means, it's a install dependency for the binary package and no build-dep
<xerxas> will do without it
<\sh> blueyed: where "binary package" == something-version_all.deb
<blueyed> \sh: I'd like to avoid this install dependency. Without having "broken packages" afterwards. Because you don't want to install php packages (php is compiled from php.net source).
<xerxas> zyga:  looks better like that ?
<blueyed> bddebian: I've now apt-get updated without a mirror and it's there.. :)
<havoc> what's the apt command to view a package's headers, like maintainer, date, files, etc...?
<zyga> looks good, but remove the ''' in the {{{ }}} unless you can get it working
<\sh> blueyed: don't think about your installation..if you want to package it for ubuntu you have to install depend on php
<ogra> blueyed, that will break for all people that dont install php from source... thats not the way you do it in ubuntu
<Mithrandir> havoc: apt-cache show ?
<blueyed> ok, I understand. Just thought there was a possibility.
<havoc> Mithrandir: thanx, and least now I know what to man :)
<ogra> blueyed, make the package depend on php and its fine
<\sh> blueyed: but so to say, it's quite crappy to install webapps via .deb packages right now, cause there is a discussion on debian side, how to do it the right way ;)
<xerxas> zyga:  you're not looking at the last version
<blueyed> ogra: "php" or "php4 | php5"?
<ogra> i doubt ubuntu users will insall php from source and i'd highly discourage them to do so
<ogra> blueyed, php5
<\sh> blueyed: it depends on the webapp...does it work with php5 flawlessly?
<blueyed> why not both?
<blueyed> yep
<\sh> so php5
<blueyed> And if someone just has php4 it fails..
<ogra> blueyed, nope... then php5 will get installed for him
<\sh> blueyed: php5 is in main (ogra?) so it's ok
<ogra> you can indeed also do "php4 | php5" if you think thats necessary
<ogra> \sh, yes
<\sh> what the heck
<blueyed> it's a debian package. I think it should be the admins choice to go with php4 when he wants. because other apps might need it. "php4 | php5" sounds very reasonable to me.
<ogra> i'd only take php5 ...
<ogra> but your choice
<zyga> xerxas: I am
<zyga> xerxas: maybe you did not commit the change
<blueyed> Is it still possible to sync webapps from Debian? And if yes, until when? - to get them into breezy?
<\sh> blueyed: which ones?
<blueyed> \sh: a blog app. b2evolution.
<\sh> blueyed: try s9y (http://www.s9y.org/) first, before u request this thing ;)
<blueyed> I'm a dev of it.. :p
<\sh> blueyed: u should change ;)
<blueyed> Thought about it.. ;)
<\sh> blueyed: does it come with a xmlrpc lib?
<blueyed> yep. Are you asking because of security issues?
<\sh> blueyed: yes :)
<blueyed> \sh: this might create extra-work for someone then, which is not the package maintainer, yes?
<\sh> blueyed: yes
<\sh> can it be used with the php pear xmlrpc lib?
<blueyed> not atm.
<\sh> that's why I don't like to package webapps at all, especially not blog apps :(
<blueyed> ok, I understand. IMHO it does not make that much sense anyway. What's the debian way that's being discussed?
<\sh> blueyed: first of all, there is the problem where to install, cause many hosters are using different aproaches..like chrooted apaches and wwwroots
<blueyed> bddebian: kimdaba built fine!
<bddebian> blueyed: You suspected something else? ;-P
<blueyed> \sh: specify a path..
<\sh> blueyed: the other way is the gentoo way, installing it into /usr/share/webapps/<app>-<version> and copy it on demand into someones webroot
<blueyed> bddebian: of course not.. :)
<\sh> blueyed: or symlink it into someones webroot
<\sh> blueyed: so while updating any instance of it is updated
<abarbaccia> hey guys - theres an error with the fspot package
<\sh> blueyed: debian-webapps@lists.debian.org is a ML for this discussion
<abarbaccia> well, actually the error is with the mono package i believe
<blueyed> \sh: yep, I've seen this (/usr/share/-approach) also with ubuntu packages I think. Thanks, I'll join it.
<abarbaccia> Received error "libMonoPosixHeper.so" while attempting to rotate
<blueyed> \sh: how to subscribe? subscribe in subject?
<\sh> blueyed: List-Subscribe: <mailto:debian-webapps-request@lists.debian.org?subject=subscribe>
<\sh> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:debian-webapps-request@lists.debian.org?subject=unsubscribe>
* \sh smokes last cigarette and goes to bed...hard working day :(
<bddebian> Gnight \sh
<ogra> \sh, night
<\sh> g'night folks..I hope tomorrow is a better day and I hope no outages of our bloody SI server :(
<ogra> \sh, :(
<\sh> ogra: java software...and not developed properly...
<ogra> yup, i know
<\sh> anyways..off to bed...I'm tired :(
<dholbach> re
<bddebian> wb dholbach
<dholbach> hi bddebian :)
<shadoi> ogra: I've been building packages for the e17 stuff straight from CVS checkouts.  Do you want me to build from a dist tarball instead?  Does that make sense if they aren't "released" yet?
<dholbach> depends, you can either package a tarball and add the necessary patches in debian/patches or package a cvs export
<shadoi> dholbach: well since I'm the upstream maintainer it doesn't matter to me.
<shadoi> no patches will ever be necessary.
* ogra is in a RAGE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<dholbach> i was talking from the package maintainers perspective
<tseng> ogra: :/
* tseng hugs ogra 
* shadoi hides
<dholbach> ogra: share your feelings with us
<ogra> tseng, see my last mail to -users
<tseng> ogra: ok
<bddebian> ogra: What's the matter?
<ogra> obviously jdong broke all kubuntu desktop installs with a backported k3b in his personal playground repo
<crimsun> victory!
<tseng> "all"?
<ogra> read mirrormax
<bddebian> w00t
<ogra> after i spend my whole weekend supporting people with their broken ff (and i talk about more than 12h a day this weekend)
<tseng> what is the subject
<ogra> tseng, no idea if itsall... but hoary users using mirrormax shit cant install kubuntu-desktop
<ogra> switching hoary ubuntu -> kubuntu
<tseng> ogra: everyone knows how i feel about mr. dong, so ill try not to get fired up with you :P
<tseng> its not productive
<crimsun> I'd tape a backports sign to a dartboard and have at it
<ogra> i'm soo ANGRY !!!!
<tseng> crimsun: no way
<ogra> he steals my time !
<tseng> crimsun: we love mez and slomo
<crimsun> ok, "unofficial backports"
<slomo> why me?
<slomo> i haven't done anything for the backports since i become member ;)
<tseng> hm oh
<tseng> so
<ogra> it was a requirement for giving them the ressources that they sut down this shit...
<tseng> how do i start X stuff in a chroot
<ogra> shut even
<tseng> do i need a full x server inside?
<tseng> ogra: i dont like that they talk about restricted/illegal stuff on our mailing list servers
<ogra> yup that too
<tseng> as part of the official project
<tseng> or at least very confusing
* ogra goes smoking a cigarette to calm down a bit again
<Treenaks> ogra: aren't those "cigarettes" illegal in Germany? :P
<Treenaks> ogra: (the calming kind)
<ogra> not *those*
<Treenaks> ;)
<dholbach> Treenaks: man... what did you learn in berlin? "those cigarettes" are a public matter, it's perfectly alright over here :)
<slomo> ogra: just let jdong clean up his mess... and imho we shouldn't be responsible for 3rd party repos breaking something... and the mirrormax stuff is 3rd party
* ogra thinks about moving to berlin
<dholbach> ogra: !!! :)
<Treenaks> dholbach: yeah, I got offered more hash there then I get offered in Amsterdam :)
<ogra> slomo, whats to clean up there ?
<ogra> slomo, it should get shut down immediately...
<dholbach> :-p
<ogra> today if you ask me
<slomo> ogra: yes... or under another name and completely disconnected... sure
<slomo> ogra: but i meant because of the k3b breakage
<ogra> nope
<ogra> shut down now !
<ogra> and the firefox breakage
<ogra> i fear the stuff that will come up tomorrow
<slomo> ogra: we can't forbid jdong to make some 3rd party repo... it just have to be completely disconnected from the official stuff imho
<ogra> slomo, doesnt help
<ogra> people will use the crap he builds...
<ogra> nearly every sources.list posted to -users has this repo in it
<Nafallo> we need something like NotOurBug for Malone then :-)
<ogra> the crappy ubuntuguide suggests people to add it etc
<slomo> ogra: why? isn't it the users fault when he uses that stuff then? when someone installs something from marillat and everything breaks it isn't our fault too... and marillat's repo was in many sources.list which were posted everywhere
<slomo> ogra: then we should get people to not recommend that
<ogra> slomo, if the user gets advised by the community to use it ?
<Treenaks> we  "Comment on this translation" and "Translation policy" pages for rosetta
<bddebian> Nafallo: :-)
<Treenaks> so you can explain WHY you translated X as Y, and people don't keep changing it back
<Treenaks> mis-informed as they are
<slomo> ogra: then we should get these guides to not recommend these repos or just with a big warning
<ogra> slomo, i asked the guy who does the guide several times to fix the errors in the guide, i even gave him the right commands... he never added them
<slomo> i can understand your anger... but imho we shouldn't feel responsible about breakages caused by other repositories
<slomo> hmm
<ogra> if it steals developer time 3 weeks before release its an issue
<ogra> and i feel like helping desparate users, probably thats my fault...
<Nafallo> if the user is desperate for version numbers, there is no hope anyway ;-).
<slomo> ogra: no... it's good... but i would first fix real bugs caused by something we broke
<bddebian> slomo: Yeah, so get fixing bugs!
* bddebian hides
<slomo> bddebian: :P
<slomo> bddebian: i'm on holidays currently... but i will after i'm back and after my exams
<bddebian> slomo: I was joking.  You ROCK man :-)
<slomo> bddebian: i currently have 3 ugly bugs assigned to me which probably all need more than an afternoon ;)
<slomo> bddebian: sorry, i'm a bit tired atm ;)
<bddebian> NP
<havoc> so I have a mostly working breezy install working now
<bddebian> Nice
<bddebian> "mostly working" ? :-)
<havoc> menus are messed up, and more importantly I can't get xawtv working
<Nafallo> hmm, "mostly working install working"
<Nafallo> intresting :-P
<havoc> yeah, bad grammar
<havoc> I think the xawtv prob may be xorg related though
<havoc> some DGA thing
<havoc> worked fine in mandrake on the same machine
<havoc> I need my TV :)
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> who needs TV?
<Nafallo> there are internet out there.
<ogra> hmm, did debian already do the gcc4 transition for unstable ?
<dholbach> parts of it i guess
<dholbach> doko resynced some packages
<ogra> kdelibs ?
<dholbach> dunno
<dholbach> a couple of packages
<ogra> there is another foreign repo in this guys sources.list but that contains only original debian packages... i wonder if i was wrong...
<mbreit> good evening everyone!
<ogra> mbreit, dk ?
<ogra> on holiday ?
<dholbach> sun conference :)
<dholbach> with slomo
<ogra> ah
<mbreit> ogra: yes, i am at jaoo
<slomo> dholbach: not just sun
<mbreit> sun is one of the main sponsors (as well as ms)
<bddebian> Heya mbreit
<ajmitch> bddebian: fyi, I'm hardly doing any bugfixing or uploads these days :P
<bddebian> ajmitch: Well WTF d00d? ;-)
* ajmitch can't do such tasks
* bddebian thinks ajmitch lies
<tseng> bradb: clicking "Ubuntu Tomboy" to edit the status of the big is still silly
<bddebian> the big? ;-)
<tseng> the bug
<ogra> big bug ?
<bddebian> hehe
* bddebian breaks out the large fly swatter
<bddebian> siretart: You still around?
<bradb> tseng: it is indeed. / i fixed that by adding a "Edit Assignee/Status Details" link in the actions portlet,  but i was told to remove it.
<bddebian> bradb: Who told you to remove it?
<bddebian> That confused the crap out of me at first :-)
* ogra guesses mpt :)
<tseng> sigh, mpt
<ogra> he was the glorious inventor of the "Someone else..." button in the screensaver :)
<ogra> i had a ton of flame mails after i added that :)
<bradb> tseng: heck no. the sab.
<Nafallo> haha. that's the most silly button I've seen in Ubuntu yet ;-).
<tseng> he seems awfully crackful for a "usability expert" is all
<ogra> Nafallo, http://www.grawert.net/xss.html
<ogra> just reworking the crap :)
<bradb> tseng: who, mpt?
<tseng> bradb: yes.
<bradb> why do you say that?
<tseng> ogra: much better!!
<ogra> yup
<ogra> thats from sab as well ;)
<Nafallo> ogra: yay! upload dude! :-)
<tseng> bradb: i dunno, i get the idea he is supposed to be full time usability work on LP
<tseng> bradb: and launchpad LP is full of issues
<ogra> Nafallo, thats a mocup i'm only half way done
<ogra> mockup indeed
<tseng> is Switch User better than Account?
<ogra> i think it will end up with "Switch User"
<Nafallo> well, atleast it's done for breezy :-P
<ogra> thats an ongoing argument between jdub and mpt
<bradb> tseng: yeah, he is full-time usability love. a lot of the major malone usability issues that need addressing are, in some cases, out of our control to make the call on, unfortunately.
<tseng> bradb: i think thats crap too
* tseng is not afraid to say what is crap :P
<bradb> tseng: even though you guys may complain, and be very right to complain, user input often isn't enough to change something :/
<ogra> tseng, he does a good job, but sometimes he's just a bit to creative ;)
<Nafallo> ogra: who is for Account? :-)
<ogra> Nafallo, guess
<Nafallo> ogra: mpt?
<ogra> :)
<Nafallo> baah. should be User :-)
<ogra> it will most likely be user... but i'll wait until the dust settled between the two ;)
<bddebian> Time to head home. Later gang
<dholbach> see you, bddebian
<havoc> bddebian: later
<havoc> so now I have MDK 10.2, 10.1, 9.0, FC4, breezy, and debian 3.1 machines
<havoc> what a mess
<Nafallo> what a waste :-)
<havoc> justa  mess for the time being
* Nafallo runs Ubuntu ;-)
<havoc> in the process of converting everything to debian and ubuntu
<havoc> just takes time :(
<havoc> I'm converting all my clients' machines too
<havoc> debian on the server and ubuntu on all workstations
<havoc> for *now* anyway
<Nafallo> here we run breezy on both clients (me and my girlfriends) and hoary main on the server.
<havoc> unfortunately I've needed some debian stuff that was a pain to get into ubuntu for some of the servers :(
<havoc> like netatalk from deb testing
<havoc> for a few Mac networks
<havoc> base-ubuntu (or whatever it is) is a meta-package, right?
<havoc> I'd like to put ubuntu on my vaio, but I need a new hdd for it first
* ajmitch waves good morning to all
<Nafallo> ubuntu-base is a dummy package ;-)
<Nafallo> ajmitch: morning :-)
<havoc> ah
<havoc> ajmitch: it's miller time here :)
<Nafallo> ubuntu-standard is a meta-package
<havoc> wwell, Leinenkugels time anyway
<havoc> Nafallo: I'm just trying to figure out how to make an automated install
<havoc> with a set list of packages
<ajmitch> dholbach: I see your desktop team announcement now :)
<dholbach> yeah :)
<ajmitch> getting all the fame & glory (& bugs) ;)
<Nafallo> havoc: then I'm not the right man to talk to :-P
<havoc> Nafallo: ok :)
<havoc> there's no rush on it anyway yet
<ajmitch> havoc: this channel isn't really the place for it either, since we just work on universe devel :)
<havoc> ajmitch: isn't is a packaging thing though?
<havoc> wouldn't I have to make my own meta-package or something?
<havoc> not that I want to bug anyone right now though
<havoc> I know you all are very busy right now
<havoc> I figure I have to learn how to packe stuff sooner or later though
<Nafallo> havoc: IIRC no. ask google. should be something about this on ubuntu-devel AFAICR
<havoc> Nafallo: ok
<ajmitch> dholbach: GNOMEExperts is just for main stuff?
<dholbach> it's for GNOME/Desktop stuff
#ubuntu-motu 2005-10-02
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> there's plenty of that in universe :)
<dholbach> :)
<ajmitch> how about those apps that aren't part of the desktop, but are like f-spot, beagle, etc?
<ogra> heh, the announcement produced a incredible long thread...
<ajmitch> already?
<dholbach> i guess it'll grow a BIGBIGBIG list
<dholbach> ogra: goswin's law
<ogra> unfortuantely not about the announcement :)
<ajmitch> ogra: of course not
<ogra> humans are silly :)
<ogra> sometimes
<dholbach> godwins law...
<dholbach> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwins_Law :)
<ajmitch> can someone ship me some spare time?
* ogra looks....
<ogra> sorry... got none over here
<ajmitch> :(
<ajmitch> surely dholbach will have some to spare
<dholbach> of course
<ajmitch> great
<dholbach> i'm just sitting around... bored, with too much time
<ajmitch> that's a shame
* ajmitch wants to spare a week or two to get selinux beaten into shape for UBZ
<slomo> dholbach: can you please look at mosml? i splitted it now... so when you're ok with it i can upload :)
<dholbach> how long will you still be here?
<slomo> dholbach: one hour maybe
<dholbach> ok
<ajmitch> silly me, i forgot to upload my wx 2.6 fix to smooth upgrades from hoary
<dholbach> slomo: it's not up yet, is it?
<slomo> nope...
<slomo> maybe at 00:20
<slomo> i uploaded it 3 minutes ago... so maybe i just missed the cronjob
<slomo> and i tested the package with this split and everything works... the stuff in /usr/lib seems to be all needed
* ajmitch sighs
<slomo> dholbach: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=659
* ajmitch wonders if it's worth fixing zope-ldap
<ajmitch> considering its last upstream release was in 2000
<ajmitch> and it's orphaned in debian
<dholbach> slomo: advocated, made a note to it
<bmonty> ajmitch: thats a good point, shouldn't there be a policy on how long universe will support non-developed packages?? especially if they never had a 1.0 release!
<dholbach> slomo: advocated, made a note to it
<ajmitch> bmonty: this is one for me to discuss with the zope team :)
<ajmitch> but it's something we have to talk about
<ajmitch> maybe at the next MOTU meeting
<ajmitch> or UBZ
<slomo> dholbach: the dependencies are that way for other -dev and -doc packages too ;)
<slomo> dholbach: uploaded
<bmonty> yeah, right now I just use the common sense test....how long has the package been unmaintained, and is it important, or is the functionality provided better by some other package
<dholbach> slomo: the versioned dependencies :)
<dholbach> but it's ok
<slomo> dholbach: this mosml (= ${Source-Version}) ?
<bmonty> off topic question: is anyone using a "single sign-on" solution on their network (i.e. kerberos, NIS), I'm looking to implement one and I'm interested in hearing recommendations
<dholbach> yep
<slomo> dholbach: that's afaik standard for such packages
<dholbach> slomo: and the -doc package depended on the -dev package?
<slomo> dholbach: ok, so now we have perfect sml support ;)
<slomo> dholbach: the doc package doesn't make sense without the dev package
<ajmitch> bmonty: for zope, we have to consider if the packages work with the supported zope versions (2.7, 2.8)
<dholbach> slomo: i sometimes install doc packages just to be able to have a proper look at them
<dholbach> slomo: but that's your choice
<slomo> dholbach: hmm... so maybe a recommend is better?
<bmonty> ajmitch: I agree with that...I'm not a zope expert, but what if ldap is something that nobody uses with zope, should universe continue to support it?
<dholbach> slomo: yeah, i think so
<dholbach> slomo: but it's OK the way it is
<slomo> hm, next upload :)
<Nafallo> slomo: -doc on the client when I'm configuring the server most often :-).
<dholbach> good night everybody
<slomo> gn8 :)
<slomo> good night everybody
<mbreit> night everybody
<phlaegel> anybody around who works on php4 packages?
<slomo> _the_ php4 packages or just some php4 packages?
<phlaegel> _the_
<slomo> infinity
<tseng> infinity doesnt want them
<tseng> aiui
<phlaegel> who would? ;-)
<tseng> not me
<tseng> i ported to php5
<slomo> hmm... he told me to not touch the php4 packages without asking him ;)
<phlaegel> I just need it for mythweb
<tseng> slomo: oh
<tseng> phlaegel: it cant work with 5?
<phlaegel> dunno, it depends on 4
<slomo> well... good night ;)
<tseng> most stuff should depend on 4 | 5 now if we can
<tseng> please submit debdiffs
<phlaegel> ok, it seems to work on php5
<tseng> right
<phlaegel> ok, how would I make a debdiff for this (I'm new to packaging, but would like to learn)
<phlaegel> I've installed debdiff and wdiff and that works
<phlaegel> but I'm not sure how the dependencies should work
<\sh> debdiff package_old.dsc package_new.dsc > <name of diff>
<\sh> but officially I'm sleeping
<phlaegel> heh
<\sh> apt-file (2.0.7ubuntu5) breezy; urgency=low
<\sh>  .
<\sh>      The "Don't read eMail after you woke up" Fix
<\sh>    * Fixed a spelling typo (see Malone #2502)
<\sh> eeks
<ajmitch> \sh: impressive :)
<\sh> it is *eg*
<\sh> back to sleep...my nightmare doesn't come back I think
<crimsun> night, sh
<Riddell> once I've uploaded a package how can I remove it from revu?
<ajmitch> hello bddebian
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<abarbaccia> hey is anybody here in control of the mythtv-themes package
<Lathiat> Whats up with it
<ajmitch> hi Lathiat
<ajmitch> Lathiat: got avahi?
<abarbaccia> Lathiat, its not there!
<abarbaccia> its referenced but not there - one of those ya know - but its needed because i only have 2 of my themes now that i upgraded
<tambaqui> :)
<abarbaccia> can someone create that package and upload it?
<abarbaccia> or if somenoe wants to tell me how to i would love to help out
<Lathiat> abarbaccia: Does it exist in debian?
<abarbaccia> um, not sure - probably does
<abarbaccia> i mean, the package depends on nothing
<abarbaccia> it just moves folders into appropriate places
<abarbaccia> no changing files or anything
<abarbaccia> it just needs to be there to get the other 5 themes
<Lathiat> You mean, the themes are there but they are in the wrong spot?
<abarbaccia> no
<abarbaccia> before the themes were all in the main package
<abarbaccia> they took them out to save space and made a theme package
<abarbaccia> which has the majority of them
<abarbaccia> in the main package it only has like 2
<abarbaccia> the other 5 official ones are in this theme package
<ajmitch> Lathiat: mdz' package probably has them
<ajmitch> if I can recall the url for his packages :)
<ajmitch> ok, google worked
<abarbaccia> i mean, it should be in the official repos right?
<ajmitch> http://dijkstra.csh.rit.edu/~mdz/debian/dists/unstable/mythtv/binary-all/
<abarbaccia> NO
<abarbaccia> i hate that repo
<ajmitch> looks like we can grab it
<abarbaccia> well, we can take that one package
<ajmitch> abarbaccia: get over it :P
<abarbaccia> but he has stuff in there thats  all wrong
<ajmitch> he's the debian packager
<abarbaccia> well, you can tell him he compiled the transcode daemon without transcode on his system and i answer emails all the time from my site about "why isnt it working"
<ajmitch> what do you think is wrong there?
<abarbaccia> lets just grab the package - i like sticking to official ubuntu repos
<abarbaccia> just a lil pet peeve of mine
<ajmitch> considering he's one of the main ubuntu developers..
<abarbaccia> hahaha
<abarbaccia> i apprecaite his work a lot - its just funny
<abarbaccia> i knew that was the repo u were talking about
<abarbaccia> i run a site on getting mythtv running on ubuntu
<abarbaccia> and people ALWAYS email me about that - and in the site i tell them that's what's wrong and why to stick to the sources i outlined
<abarbaccia> but they dont listen
* ajmitch notes that transcode is in multiverse for breezy - stuff that depends on it should be in there too
<bddebian> ajmitch: I thought you didn't do any of this stuff?? ;-P
<ajmitch> bddebian: I don't
<ajmitch> I just lurk on irc & be a nuisance
<bddebian> Heh
<ajmitch> you didn't think I was actually useful, did you?
<bddebian> I don't think, I KNOW :-)
<ajmitch> you know that I'm not? you'd be right there ;)
<bddebian> NO, I KNOW that you ARE!  beeatch
<bmonty> anyone here?
<bddebian> Nope :-)
<bmonty> I've got a debdiff on #2518, but check out the comment on the page where you can change the bug status
<bmonty> bddebian: can you check out the debdiff?
<bddebian> bmonty: Sure give me sec
<bmonty> thanks
<bddebian> bmonty: OK.
<bddebian> Oh, wait
<bddebian> You mean from siretart about uploading with another bugfix?
<bmonty> bddebian: yeah, but I can't find the other bug
<bddebian> Have you pinged him?  Or checked the current changelog? :-)
<bmonty> siretart is marked away, but I can check the changelog
<bmonty> he did two uploads on 25 Sep to fix gcc 4.0 and python dependencies....I would guess he forgot about the desktop file
<bddebian> Aye, kinda looks that way :-)
<bmonty> I'll probably have another one in a couple minutes.....
<bddebian> bmonty: OK.  I probably won't be able to upload until morning though
<bmonty> no problem...the other one will be #738, I'm testing the package with a desktop file right now
<bmonty> bddebian: #2518 and #738 have debdiffs ready for upload
<bmonty> night everyone
<bddebian> Gnight bmonty Good work
<xerxas> bood night
<\sh> moins
<ajmitch> morning \sh
<ajmitch> more apt-file fixes to do? :)
<\sh> lol..no..just woke up..
<ajmitch> well the last comment was that you should use wget, not curl :)
<\sh> and got my first flash when I saw the new kernel and infinities fixes to libetpan which I don't understand
<\sh> ajmitch: which is now the default and it pulls in the right deps
<ajmitch> ok good
<\sh> the last comment of the reporter was because of a spelling typo of "prefere" instead of the correct "prefer"
<ajmitch> heh
<\sh> ok..I think it's time to have a shower now and leaving for office
* ajmitch has just returned from office :)
<\sh> the magic of TZs in our world
<\sh> cu a bit later from work :)
<ajmitch> uh..
<ajmitch> I wonder why my bug comment seems to be held for moderation now?
<ajmitch> I guess malone has changed the from address now
<siretart> morning
<sivang> morning siretart
<ajmitch> hi siretart
<siretart> hi folks! :)
<\sh> re
<ajmitch> wb \sh
<Treenaks> backslashsh
<ajmitch> \sh: ready for another day of work^Wbreezy hacking? :)
<Treenaks> ajmitch: where can I get a job like that? :)
<ajmitch> Treenaks: ask \sh  ;)
<Treenaks> \sh: ^^
<\sh> what?
<\sh> what's the request?
<ivoks> hi
<siretart> hi ivoks
<ajmitch> \sh: a job that lets us work on ubuntu all day long :)
<ajmitch> hi ivoks
<\sh> ajmitch: hehehe :)
<ivoks> so, everybody knows..
<\sh> ajmitch: not all day long ;) as you saw yesterday :)
<ajmitch> ivoks: we know?
* ivoks is working on gdeb and gnome-apt
<ivoks> to use sudo, instead su
<ivoks> instead of su
<ivoks> argh... it's still morning :)
<ajmitch> heh
<\sh> gnome-apt? gksu ?
<ivoks> yeah..
<\sh> desktop file?
<ivoks> nope
<ivoks> C
<\sh> eeks...I have to call the tax department :(
<ivoks> it creates functions inside program
<ajmitch> \sh: they want everything you own?
<\sh> ajmitch: sure ;)
<ajmitch> well that's the purpose of tax departments ;)
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> someone saying they asked 'many times' in here for something to be synced, which hasn't been released yet?
<jsgotangco> yeah
<ivoks> :)
<jsgotangco> bad bad MOTU
<jsgotangco> :)
<ajmitch> :P
<ivoks> argh
<ivoks> i can't do this :)
<jsgotangco> OT: does anyone have a clue how may ports BSD has
<ajmitch> \sh: you are listed as having tested gcfilms?
<ajmitch> dholbach!!
<dholbach> hi!
<\sh> ajmitch: can be..I don't remeber ;)
<ajmitch> \sh: you didn't ask for a sync of it? ;)
<\sh> ajmitch: no not that I know of...
<ajmitch> \sh: I see it's been on that page for almost 2 months
<ajmitch> no wonder he wrote to ubuntu-devel about it :)
<\sh> ajmitch: who?
<ajmitch> infinito, I think
<\sh> ajmitch: wait
<\sh> gcfilms had issues when I would be synced from debian...I tested it and it failed to build...I told infinito about this
<ajmitch> ah ok
<\sh> after that I didn't care about it anymore
<ajmitch> heh
<\sh> well..u know my age and the other work
<ajmitch> yes, we can't help the elderly ;)
<\sh> I have to make a mind-note to remind elmo to NEW libetpan3
<\sh> which replaces libetpan1
<ajmitch> tomboy is quite good
<\sh> ajmitch: yeah using it..quite slow somehow
<ajmitch> you just need a dual-core box :)
<\sh> ajmitch: oh yes...please send me one ;)
<infinito> excuse me... you were talking about gcfilms
<ajmitch> haha
* ajmitch would like to get a dual-core box before sending one to \sh  :)
<ajmitch> infinito: we ewre
<ajmitch> were, that is..
* ajmitch hits keyboard
<\sh> argl
<infinito> i filled to MOTUToSync entry 'cause \sh told me problems we're solved with latest update (5.3)
<infinito> but that was on july
* siretart just tries to build gcfilms in breezy
<infinito> 5.2 was missing a build-dep on debian/control, it's fixed now (in fact in july)
<\sh> I told you it has problems...
<\sh> but did i told you the problems were fixed? oh man...I'm old and mentally sick ;)
<infinito> \sh: yes, you told me to fill te MOTUToSync entry with ++
<zyga> morning :)
<\sh> infinito: sorry about it...I will put it on my list of syncs for today, ok?
<infinito> \sh: thank you very much
<ajmitch> it'd need resynced once 6.0 was out anyway :)
<ajmitch> assuming that you get it released in the next week or so
<\sh> infinito: you are whitelisted?
<infinito> \sh: whitelisted? umm, dont know... maybe not
<siretart> infinito: can you please comment on http://tiber.tauware.de/
<\sh> infinito: wiki.ubuntu.com/Uploads <- section about whitelisting yourself for breezy changes
<siretart> infinito: can you please comment on http://tiber.tauware.de/~siretart/gcfilms.buildlog
<ajmitch> hm, doesn't look good :)
<\sh> siretart: oergs
* ajmitch gets the same in pbuilder here
<ajmitch> siretart: btw I think LVM snapshots for the builds could be good :)
<\sh> infinito: and your realname I need
<\sh> I mean it's just postponed the sync
<infinito> \sh: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AdolfoGonzalez
<siretart> ajmitch: sure, that was suggested on debian-devel I think, too ;)
<ajmitch> siretart: sure
<ajmitch> siretart: I saw people talking about it in #d-d today also
<siretart> oh. :)
<ajmitch> and I know the pbuilder author was considering support for it
* \sh is frightend to join #d-d
<\sh> ;)
<ajmitch> \sh: hah
<\sh> markuman: ping did u upload your key to the keyservers?
<ajmitch> no CoC to maintain the peace there ;)
<\sh> ajmitch: well...I think some mainainers of debian don't like me
<siretart> \sh: it's a quite busy channel. imo way more busy than #u-devel
<ajmitch> \sh: quite probably
<ajmitch> \sh: MOTUs do quick fixes :)
<\sh> well...anyways..brb cause of real life work :)
<ajmitch> ok :)
<infinito> siretart: the problem it's that we have a _ugly_ hack on install script to check permissions before installing
<infinito> siretart: if you don't have permission to write on /tmp, the .png file wont get installed, so the build fails
<infinito> i think
<infinito> but i got a question, why it works on debian (sid and etch) and doesn't work on ubuntu?
<ivoks> i give up
<ajmitch> infinito: sorry, but it doesn't work on sid for me either
<ivoks> what?
<ajmitch> infinito: although my sid is a chroot setup
<ajmitch> infinito: which could possibly be what is causing it (it would cause it to break on buildds as well)
<infinito> ajmitch: maybe (just maybe) in buildds, user have no permission to write in /usr/share/pixmaps, which i think is the problem
<ajmitch> infinito: umm
<ivoks> ??
<ajmitch> packages should *never* install stuff into /usr
<ajmitch> when building
<ivoks> bad packaging, bad... :/
<infinito> the install script just checks for permission there, but doesn't install anything, i think
<ajmitch> that's why makefiles respect DESTDIR & install there
<ajmitch>        copy 'share/gcfilms/icons/gcfilms_logo128.png', '/usr/share/pixmaps/gcfilms.png'
<ajmitch>                 if (-w '/usr/share/pixmaps');
<infinito> our install script, not the debian packaging
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> that's your install script
<ajmitch> which the debian packaging uses
<infinito> we just wanted a clean way to add the .desktop file for the application, if you have permissions, the .desktop file will be installed
<infinito> but maybe we should remove that...
<ivoks> infinito: $(prefix)
<ivoks> you should use $(prefix)/share/pixmaps/
<ivoks> if someone wants to install it in /opt
<ivoks> you can't put anything outside /opt
<ivoks> that's why building fails on every debian system
<ajmitch> it would succeed if you built as root
<ivoks> yes :/
<ajmitch> this is why building as root is unsafe :)
<ivoks> but it wouldn't install where I want
<ajmitch> a simple misplaced rm in a makefile could be very dangerous :)
<infinito> i know
<ivoks> :>
<siretart> infinito: debian allows binary uploads. in ubuntu, we only have sourceful uploads. and we cannot include/update your package if it does not build
<ivoks> gr..
<ivoks> pida has transparent icon :/
<infinito> i just thought adding a .desktop file to /usr/share/applications was good to the final user, but i was wrong
<siretart> infinito: this is gernerally a good idea, but better let this do the packaging scripts
<infinito> siretart: i know, but our .tar.gz was downloaded more times that the pkgd versions, so we wanted people to have an easy way to access gcfilms when it was installed
<siretart> infinito: this is not a problem. The packaging script can patch this call out and replace it with a 'safe' call/version
* ajmitch thinks we should 'talk' to the debian packager ;)
<infinito> siretart: anyway, i thought the debian packager had fixed those problems....
<\sh> infinito: the right way to install your .desktop file or your png should be in your makefile like this: $(INSTALL) share/gcfilms/icons/gcfilms_logo128.png $(DESTDIR)$(PREFIX)/share/gcfilms/icons/gcfilms_logo128.png
<ajmitch> infinito: no, there's a release-critical bug in debian about this as well
<ajmitch> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=326229
<\sh> $(INSTALL) share/applications/gcfilms.desktop $(DESTDIR)$(PREFIX)share/applications/gcfilms.desktop
<ajmitch> \sh: it's a perl script, rather than make
<\sh> ajmitch: eeks
<ajmitch> :D
<\sh> ajmitch: perl packages are honoring DESTDIR with MakeMaker or what the bloody module is named ;)
<infinito> ummm, anyway, if you don't have permission to write at /usr/sshare/pixmaps, the script wont fail
<\sh> infinito: which is wrong...
<\sh> infinito: when I'm installing into another $(PREFIX) there is no /usr/
<\sh> infinito: installing a package means, via root normally when "root" is installing it systemwide
<\sh> infinito: installing the package as user means: no systemwide, no root, no permissions for /usr/
<infinito> ok, what we do is, if you're allowed to write at /usr/share/applications, then the .desktop file goes there
<\sh> and this is no debian packaging bug..:)
<infinito> if not, the .desktop file goes to ~/.local/sahre/applications
<\sh> infinito: when you compile gnome or kde looking for .desktop files in /opt/bla/foo/desktopfiles ?
<\sh> infinito: how are you fulfilling this request
<\sh> ?
<ajmitch> infinito: the install script really should honour prefix
<infinito> yes, i see, i'm gonna change it and commit it to cvs
<\sh> ok...datacenter work...bbl
<ivoks> but the worst thing about debian's #326229
<ivoks> is that packages says everything is ok :)
<ivoks> packager
<ajmitch> yeah..
<ivoks> i'll send him an email
<ivoks> :)
<infinito> so.... what is the best way to fix it?
<siretart> infinito: make your install script honor $DESTDIR
<infinito> ummm, i think it fails not for the .desktop and .png installing...
<infinito> it fails when checking permissions on $PREFIX
<ajmitch> hah nice, zope upstream is using rosetta for translations :)
<siretart> perhaps it is a confusing error message that the specified dir does not exist (yet)?
<siretart> in this case a mkdir would help
<siretart> perhaps calling install -D helps, too
<infinito> we do this:
<infinito> eval 'mkpath $dir' if (! -e $dir);
<infinito>     if (-w $dir && !$@)
<infinito> and there build fails
<infinito> not sure why...
<siretart> strange
* siretart no perl guru
* infinito neither ;)
<markuman> siretart, i have send you an email because revu, but the mail arrived at sebastian d. (slomo?)?
<infinito> buildds try to install on /tmp/buildd/gcfilms-5.3/debian/gcfilms/usr, and it should have write perms there, so dont know what's happening
<dholbach> anyone wants to investigate if it's worth getting a new mergeant in? Malone 2383?
<ivoks> if it's a year old...
<ivoks> and builds/works ok...
<ajmitch> dholbach: how many libs would it pull in?
<ajmitch> ivoks: new package, not the one in debian
<dholbach> i think it want libgnomedb and libgda
<dholbach> which are in main
<ajmitch> they're the right version?
<dholbach> so we'll have to have a look what is possible
<dholbach> there was an announce of 1.99 or something
<dholbach> 1.9.99
<ajmitch> mergeant 0.62 is latest
<dholbach> they'll hit 2.0 soon (the libs)
<dholbach> libgda / libgnomedb
* ajmitch is fetching mergeant source now
<ajmitch> dholbach: yes, but they're frozen in main :)
<ivoks> :)
<ajmitch> PKG_CHECK_MODULES(MERGEANT, libgnomedb-2.0 >= 1.3.90 \ libgda-2.0 >= 1.3.90 \
<dholbach> yeah, so we have to check
<ajmitch> we have 1.2.1
<ajmitch> so you'd have to give a *great* reason for upgrading those :)
<ajmitch> even though gnome has a general uvf exception, I think caution is good :)
<dholbach> absolutely
<ajmitch> although the only rdepends in breezy is mergeant
<dholbach> hm?
<dholbach> then why is it in main?
<ajmitch> libgda2-3 has far more rdepends
<koke> humm, I was checking the changelog and I've find a patch from me that I can't remember :)
<dholbach> yeah
<ajmitch> hey koke
<dholbach> koke, nice to see you
<ivoks> :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: including libgnome-cil, so if you break mono stuff you'll get the wrath of the mono team ;)
<dholbach> i see
<dholbach> :)
<dholbach> GDA BREAKAGE! :)
* ajmitch sends tseng & slomo after dholbach 
<ivoks> hm
<ivoks> meld: Depends: python (< 2.4)
<ajmitch> eh?
<ivoks> old one doesn't work
<ivoks> new one depends on <2.4 :)
<ajmitch> ivoks: new one being the one in sid?
<ivoks> yes
<ajmitch> then of course it'll have that depend :)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> can we repackage it to depend on python2.3?
<ajmitch> no
<ivoks> ok
<ajmitch> we repackage it to depend on python (>= 2.4), python (<< 2.5)
<ajmitch> once it is tested to work ok on 2.4
<ivoks> ah, ok
<ajmitch> ivoks: no open bugs in gnome bugzilla about failure with 2.4, so it should be safe
<ivoks> ok
<ivoks> ok, this needs only sync from debian
<ivoks> hm..
<ajmitch> why?
<ivoks> but it has the same bug :/
<ivoks> *** glibc detected *** free(): invalid pointer: 0xb798cd80 ***
<ajmitch> lovely
<ivoks> hm.........
<ajmitch> yay for upstream bugs
<ivoks> but this bug is easy to spot
<ivoks> just start new, open source and - crash
<ajmitch> heh
<ivoks> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/rhythmbox-applet/+bug/2564 - hm
<infinito> siretart: so there's no way to get gcfilms on ubuntu right now, right?
<ajmitch> infinito: currently it's not in the archive
<ivoks> ah...
<siretart> infinito: sure it is
<siretart> infinito: we need a fixed package, then we can upload
<ivoks> or we could fix package ? :)
<infinito> siretart: so how can we do it?
<ivoks> oh LOL!
<ivoks> check this out
<ivoks> http://www.mrbass.org/linux/ubuntu/scim/
<ivoks> udo chmod 646 /etc/X11/Xsession.d/74custom-scim_startup
<ivoks> wtf? 646? :))
<infinito> siretart: how can i set up a build env like yours to try to see what is the problem with gcfilms install script?
<ivoks> fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage
<siretart> infinito: I tried it in a pbuilder
<ivoks> dpkg-buildpackage shoud generate error too, since you run it as a user
<siretart> infinito: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto for instructions how to setup
<infinito> it's kinda strange 'cause it fails to check write perms on --prefix
<siretart> btw, does anyone know what happened to pbuilder-uml?
<siretart> some docs are referring to a package called pbuilder-uml, but I cannot find it :(
<dholbach> uml stuff was removed, because it didnt'  work at all
<dholbach> that was before hoary release
<ajmitch> dholbach: #ubuntu-desktop looks like it could be useful :)
<sivang> pbuilder under uml, cool :)
<ivoks> that's it...
<ivoks> no more bugfixing today :)
<crimsun> ogra, I'm heading to bed soon, but please ping elmo regarding promoting libpostproc-dev (src:ffmpeg) from multiverse to universe, which would allow me to drastically reduce vlc's diff.gz
<ogra> oki
<crimsun> thanks!
<ogra> :)
<ogra> sleep well
<crimsun> danke
<dholbach> i suppose i'll make universe-bugs non-moderated
<dholbach> people are already replying to bugs via mail and regarding the new mail header of malone bugs, that seems to make more sense
<dholbach> hope we don't ge tspammed
<ajmitch> we will
<\sh> hmmm...are those reports via mail going back to LP?
<dholbach> \sh: yes
<dholbach> and i don't want to be flooded in "approve mail a,b,c" requests
<dholbach> ajmitch: spam mail?
<dholbach> #2505 is such an example
<ajmitch> dholbach: I'd say so - it's a fact of life on the net :)
<dholbach> argl
<\sh> ogra: read a comment to http://linux.blogweb.de/archives/107-Please-shutdown-.....html
<ogra> \sh, go ! offer decss!
<ogra> :)
<\sh> ogra: no I won't :) but now they're complaining...but even Thomas Janssen saw the problems now after upgrading to breezy ,-)
<ogra> yup
<siretart> a similar discussion is on -devel (mailinglist)
<siretart> package has version 20050207. whats the correct ubuntu1 version?
<siretart> 20050207ubuntu1? or 20050207.ubuntu1?
<ajmitch> 20050207ubuntu1
<siretart> okay
<siretart> just wanted to be sure
<ArneCas> I am looking for a virtual package that has all the dependecies to develop a GTK+ application. Ideally it would install gcc, gtk2-devel, make, libtool, pkg-config by selecting a single package. Is such a thing available?
<infinito> im trying to set a breezy pbuilder, but it fails with update-notifier error, can anyone tell me howto fix this?
<siretart> ArneCas: `aptitude install build-essential gnome-devel` would be my first try
<ArneCas> siretart: someone at ubuntu-desktop said this seems to be a debian package that might depend on the wrong version of gnome
<sistpoty> hi folks
<siretart> huhu sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi siretart
<ivoks> hi
<sistpoty> hi ivoks
<ivoks> \sh: i see you are having nice converstaion with Pete :)
<ivoks> \sh: and over 400 hits! wow! it's even on http://www.nitwitz.be/ :))
<ivoks> did anyone tried ipod with breezy?
<bmonty> siretart: are you still working on the lyx package? I added a debdiff to #2518 that adds the missing desktop files.
<siretart> bmonty: lyx is missing /usr/bin/lyx currently
<dholbach> oh nice :-)
<siretart> bmonty: I'm waiting for this bug to be fixed, too, and upload a fixed package along with your .desktop file
<bmonty> siretart: you get lyx-qt and lyx-xforms
<siretart> bmonty: sorry?
<bmonty> siretart: depending on which package you install you get lyx-qt or lyx-xforms as the binary
<siretart> bmonty: yes. and /usr/bin/lyx should be an link to /etc/alternatives/lyx which itself links to /usr/bin/lyx-qt or -xforms
<siretart> bmonty: which is missing currently. bug against debian already filed, I wait for response on the debian side
<bmonty> makes sense to me :)
<siretart> bmonty: short: I did not forget you and lyx ;)
<bmonty> just wanted to make sure you new the debdiff was there so effort wasn't duplicated
<bmonty> gotta go...time for work
<siretart> bmonty: just make sure the malone bug has the latest file
<siretart> I'll take it from there
<bmonty> done!
<siretart> thanks!
<persia> I've a question about Malone bugs: there are a couple bugs with the same solution, but different reported problems.  Should they be marked as duplicates, or left separate (only one package needs adjustment)?
<siretart> just make a comment mentioning that
<persia> Already done: just that someone closed one of them without applying the fix, so I thought I'd ask whether consolidation made sense.  Thanks.
<siretart> oh
<ivoks> dholbach: trolltech video is... OMG :)
<sebest> ivoks, which video?
<ivoks> lol, firefox crashed
<ivoks> sebest: sec...
<ivoks> sebest: http://www.trolltech.com/video/qt4dance.html
<sebest> ivoks: thanx
<ivoks> be aware
<ivoks> this guys burned out :))
<sebest> you also have a lot of crash with firefox?
<ivoks> no, this is firt one
<sebest> for me it crashes really often since 2 weeks
<ivoks> i don't use any extensions
<sebest> it seems to be related to the video plugin mplayer or totem
<ivoks> and do the qt4 dance :))
<ivoks> sebest: this one was related to totem
<ivoks> sebest: i clicked on mpeg, it started totem plugin
<ivoks> i hit back and it crashed
<sebest> i'm using mplayer-plugin, and also some crash
<xerxas> Hi everyone
<xerxas> can I reopen a fixed bug in malone ?
<ivoks> xerxas: sure
<xerxas> ivoks: don't find where
<ivoks> xerxas: wich bug?
<xerxas> ivoks: 2530
<xerxas> ivoks: I made bad work
<xerxas> I reported a simple bug , that had a simple fix, but it breaks others things :)
<xerxas> didn't tested enough, but found some patch which fixes it in gentoo.
<havoc> ivoks: heh, I have the same LCD as the guy in the video
<ivoks> havoc: :)
<ivoks> havoc: but checkout the dance :)
<havoc> freaks :)
<xerxas> ivoks:  ?
<xerxas> are you looking the bug ?
<ivoks> xerxas: sec...
<ivoks> xerxas: well, you didn't do anything :)
<ivoks> xerxas: new version is in archive
<xerxas> ivoks: but new version breaks stuff
<xerxas> if I load the plugin , it works
<ivoks> xerxas: like what?
<xerxas> then I quit xchat-gnome
<xerxas> restart xchat-gnome
<xerxas> segfault
<xerxas> but I have a patch that fixes it
<ivoks> reopen the bug
<xerxas> there is no status "reopened"
<xerxas> or didn't found it
<ivoks> click on Ubuntu xchat-systray
<ivoks> and change status to New
<segfault> me?
<xerxas> nope :)
<xerxas> just segfault
<xerxas> not u
<xerxas> ivoks:  ok
<ivoks> xerxas: and comment how this all happend
<ivoks> i mean, crashing :)
<xerxas> yep
<xerxas> I have some diff that fixes it
<xerxas> must try before
<ivoks> ok
<ivoks> well, motu that uploads it should test it too
<xerxas> :)
<xerxas> nevermind, will get fixed
<xerxas> I can't know who's the MOTU that fixed it ?
<ivoks> dholbach :)
<sistpoty> cya
<ivoks> sebest: did you saw the movie?
<sebest> yeah :) funny movie!
<dholbach> ivoks, xerxas: what did i fix?
<xerxas> dholbach: you fixed thet xchat-systray stuff ?
<xerxas> hi dholbach
<ivoks> dholbach: you just uploaded new version
<ivoks> dholbach: ales clar :)
<\sh> ivoks: alles klar ,-)
<xerxas> ivoks: a new version of hat ?
<xerxas> what
* \sh needs definitly a new job
<ivoks> argh...
<dholbach> xerxas, ivoks: i never made an xchat-systray uploac
<xerxas> don't understand anything at all , nevermind
<ivoks> \sh: thanks, it's been a while..
<dholbach> xerxas, ivoks: you can have a look at /usr/share/doc/xchat-systray/changelog.Debian.gz for that
<\sh> ivoks: nafallo uploaded the last xchat-systray
<ivoks> dholbach: sorry, not you :)
<ivoks> ah, my mistake
<\sh> Von: 	Christian Bjlevik <nafallo@ubuntu.com>
<\sh> Antwort an: 	ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
<\sh> An: 	breezy-changes@lists.ubuntu.com
<\sh> Betreff: 	Accepted xchat-systray 2.4.5-2ubuntu1 (source)
<\sh> Datum: 	Mon, 26 Sep 2005 10:55:02 +0100 (BST)  (11:55 CEST)
<ivoks> Christian Bjalevik
<xerxas> yep
<xerxas> saw it
<ivoks> dholbach: i'm sorry
<dholbach> don't worry
<dholbach> i just wanted to know, what i was supposed to have done :-p
<ajmitch> dholbach: i will get you pwlib (libpt) fix in the morning, is that ok?
<dholbach> ajmitch: yeah
<dholbach> ajmitch: thank you
<ajmitch> remind me about it then - it's compiling now ;)
* ajmitch is off to bed now
<dholbach> sleep tight :)
<ivoks> ajmitch: 'night
<\sh> I'm going shopping...buying linksys router....
<\sh> later dudes until CC
<ivoks> ah, i'll go now too..
<ivoks> see you! bye
<bddebian> Heya gang
<havoc> hello
<bddebian> Heya havoc
<bddebian> bmonty: You here?
<bddebian> Why does the search function on Malone suck so bad?
<mvo> wdm is broken (if someone is interessted). may only be a matter of fixing the init script
<StrikeForce> dholbach, ping
<StrikeForce> dholbach, just to tell you debian will have a new version of istanbul soon
<bddebian> mvo: Broken how?
<StrikeForce> someone has just uploaded it to mentors looking for a sponsor
<StrikeForce> and supposedly the bugs that are listed in the debian bug list are fixed. :)
<mvo> bddebian: it dosn't start a display manager when it's installed
<bddebian> mvo: OK
<bddebian> Heya \sh
<\sh> moins barry :)
* \sh <--- lunch ;)
<bddebian> bmonty: 738 and 2518 are uploaded so go ahead and close those bugs. :-)  Thanks.
<ivoks> interesting idea for security messure
<ivoks> noexec on /home
<\sh> noexec on /tmp is a must ;)
<ivoks> \sh: NO!
<ivoks> i see you never installed debian  :))
<\sh> ivoks: YES if you run vulnerable php software ;)
<jamessan|work> noexec on /home is evil
<ivoks> jamessan|work: no, that's good stuff :)
<bddebian> Heya ivoks
<ivoks> \sh: noexec on /tmp - no preinst, postinst, prerm or postrm
<\sh> ivoks: this must be changed...
<ivoks> \sh: all those scripts fail
<ivoks> \sh: to what? /var/tmp? :)
<jamessan|work> ivoks: what about all the little scripts I write and throw in ~/bin ?
<\sh> default install of php says /tmp for http put/post uploads and this can be evil
<ivoks> jamessan|work: i'm aware of that
<ivoks> jamessan|work: and i look at my ~/bin
<ivoks> jamessan|work: nothing :)
<ivoks> jamessan|work: if they are scripts
<ivoks> jamessan|work: perl my_script.pl
<ivoks> but don't exec them
<jamessan|work> that's a lot more typing for little convenience scripts
<ivoks> jamessan|work: i know, that's why it's secure
<ivoks> trojans/worms will come to linux
<ivoks> and we need better security aproach
<ivoks> if user can download file, run it, then he/she gets same thing as with windows
<ivoks> http://linuxtoday.com/security/2005092601926OPDTMS
<ivoks> kde4 promisses really great stuff
<jamessan|work> the better solution is to worry more about security when writing software, so there aren't as many bugs/exploits.  you can't train the average user to not look at every thing that gets sent to them and inconveniencing the users won't attract a user base
<ivoks> you don't need bug/exploit to start a rm -rf *
<ivoks> you need online shell script
<ivoks> one-line
<ivoks> linux isn't like windows, users don't download executables and run it from home
<jamessan|work> yes, and setting noexec doesn't prevent that from being run
<ivoks> jamessan|work: it does
<ivoks> jamessan|work: it requests that user runs sh delete.sh
<jamessan|work> no, it just changes how it is run
<ivoks> people will never write secure software
<ivoks> we can't do that
<ivoks> so we have to protect our selfs from our selfs
<jamessan|work> yes, secure software can be developed, but people don't focus on security because it's not as glamorous as features X, Y, and Z
<ivoks> i think noexec on home is unusuall idea that would be quite good to investigate
<markuman> ive got 3 questions to dput. :-/ first: http://paste.debian.net/2087 is the .dput.cf correct?
<ivoks> jamessan|work: ah, but there is so much software
<ivoks> jamessan|work: you can't expect everybody to follow some guidelines
<ivoks> jamessan|work: and we can't go trough every single line of every source
<bddebian> Heya slomo
<slomo> hi bddebian
<jamessan|work> ivoks: I can expect it. I just know that people won't.
<dholbach> StrikeForce: oh cool - i'll have a look at that
<ivoks> jamessan|work: that's the problem, people won't develope secure soft
<ivoks> jamessan|work: so, we can say "eh.." or do something about it
<ivoks> :)
<mvo> bddebian: the wdm problem looks like something more general. xdm dosn't start either
<mvo> (but the init script pathes are still wrong)
<bddebian> ack
<ivoks> markuman: it's ok
<markuman> ivoks, ok thx. the 2nd question: "please only do signed uploads". how to sign an upload?
<bddebian> debuild -S -sa
<bddebian> Or sign the changes after a build
<markuman> ok thx.
<ivoks> http://img396.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kdemockup7sj.swf
<ivoks> checkout new KDE stuff
<slomo> hi markuman... so you got your account now? ;)
<markuman> and the 3rd question. i have to upload *.changes , *.diff *.dsc and the *.orig.tar.gz ?
<markuman> slomo, i think yes ;-)
<slomo> markuman: dput on the changes will upload everything
<markuman> ok thx
<jamessan|work> ivoks: that article really comes down to "Stupid users will do stupid things" and I say, let them do that and suffer the consequences.  You can't build foolproof software, because there will always be someone more foolish.  I've had a Windows system running for 5+ years without getting a single virus, worm, etc.
<jamessan|work> ivoks: the types of users that are going to get into that trouble are the same ones that will complain they can't run programs they've downloaded into their home directory.
<ivoks> jamessan|work: maybe
<ivoks> anyway... see you
<abarbaccia> hey all - a few things real quick - the package mythtv-themes is missing from the repositories, we can grab it from mdz's personal repositories and use that one - but it should be in the universe
<ivoks> howdy
<abarbaccia> secondly, theres an error somewhere in the mono packages or something because when using fspot it gives a mono error when trying to rotate
<abarbaccia> the error is libmonoposixhelper.so
<slomo> what error?
<abarbaccia> hold on - i'll get it exact for you
<abarbaccia> received error "libmonoposixhelper.xo" when trying to rotate <filename>
<slomo> abarbaccia: ok, should be a problem in f-spot then... hm best would be to file a bug against f-spot in malone
<tseng> uh
<tseng> that doesnt sound like the real error
<abarbaccia> slomo, how do you know its an error with fspot not the mono packages
<tseng> if it threw an exception it would have given at least several lines
<abarbaccia> well
<abarbaccia> i just ran it in the terminal, and it doesnt give any more extra output
<abarbaccia> wait
<abarbaccia> yes it does hold on
<tseng> its not even spelled right
<tseng> so you just typed stuff in here instead of the real thing
<slomo> abarbaccia: because the libmonoposixhelper.so seems to belong to f-spot... at least it doesn't belong to mono ;) so f-spot would be the best candidate
<tseng> can you please post it on pastebin.ca
<tseng> slomo: um
<tseng> slomo: it does belong to mono
<slomo> tseng: ?!
<tseng> /usr/lib/libMonoPosixHelper.so
<abarbaccia> http://pastebin.ca/24040
<tseng> its libmono0
<slomo> ah... wrong case ;) that's why i didn't find it...
<tseng> yeah he retyped it
<tseng> abarbaccia: did you just upgrade from hoary?
<tseng> or
<tseng> do you have libmono0 installed at all
<abarbaccia> fresh install of breezy
<tseng> f-spot doesnt depend on libmono0
<tseng> ajmitch: ^
<abarbaccia> i do not have libmono0 installed
<tseng> install it and it will work
<abarbaccia> well, then the fspot package needs to be updated
<slomo> abarbaccia: and for the future paste the complete error somewhere ;)
<tseng> i dont appreciate the attitude
<tseng> but that is why i pinged ajmitch, the maintainer
<tseng> to look at your issue
<abarbaccia> tseng, no attitude - just a statement
<abarbaccia> thank you though - another question - theres a package missing from the universe for mythtv
<abarbaccia> its called mythtv-themes -> theres one compiled for debian already that we could grab that works and just put it in the universe from mdz's soucres
<slomo> abarbaccia: when it's in mdz' personal repository he probably has a reason why he didn't upload it to universe (yet)
<ivoks> um... mono just took 300MB :/
<slomo> ivoks: ram?
<abarbaccia> slomo, i thought it was more on the lines of it was forgotten, because the transition to the new mythtv made the main package into a main package and a theme package
<ivoks> slomo: yeah
<slomo> ivoks: beagle? ;)
<slomo> abarbaccia: where's the package?
<ivoks> slomo: could be
<ivoks> slomo: happend after sharing folder over smb
<slomo> ivoks: sounds like beagle ;) how do you know that it was mono but not what package it really was?
<ivoks> couse top showed mono took 30% RAM :)
<ivoks> and my computer started swaping - it never did that before :)
<slomo> just look at the ps aux output :P
<abarbaccia> slomo, deb http://dijkstra.csh.rit.edu/~mdz/debian unstable mythtv
<slomo> abarbaccia: hmm... probably just ask mdz about it
<abarbaccia> i will one of these days...
<tseng> mdz said he wants that stuff in universe
<tseng> but is probably too busy
<abarbaccia> well, he got all the packages on there
<abarbaccia> except that one
<abarbaccia> and mythgame and mythphone
<tseng> thats fine, did you test them?
<abarbaccia> both of which i think are pointless....
<abarbaccia> yes
<abarbaccia> well
<slomo> tseng: then let's take a look at it and when we both think it's ok we can upload it...
<abarbaccia> i tested mythtv-themes
<abarbaccia> that would be great!
<tseng> as a rebuild on breezy?
<xerxas> I've generated my gpg key
<xerxas> what should I do to upload it to ubuntu world ?
<bddebian> xerxas: There is a place on Launchpad to put it
<slomo> xerxas: and probably upload it to a public keyserver
<ivoks> slomo: yep, beagle
<ivoks> slomo: beagled and best are taking 22% of my RAM :)
<tseng> beagle sucks ram
<tseng> news at 11
<ivoks> :)
<xerxas> slomo: already upload to a public keyserver
<xerxas> hi slomo
<tseng> ivoks: its pretty well known
<bddebian> Heya mbreit
<ivoks> tseng: i know
<tseng> ivoks: indexing lots of large files is expensive
<mbreit> hi everyone, hey bddebian ;)
<ivoks> tseng: i was surprised to see swap over 300MB filled :)
<markuman> the find and import function on launchpad dont work here: Sorry, a system error occurred
<bddebian> markuman: I get the same error when doing text searches :-(
<ivoks> it's time to join planet
<tseng> im off for lunch
<tseng> bye
<bddebian> bon apetite
<slomo> ivoks: good idea ;) i'll talk to jdub on friday about it
<ivoks> i'll do that now :)
<slomo> i'm too lazy ;)
<arzajac> Anyone here I can discuss flashplayer-nonfree with?
<xerxas_> is there anyone who's using gpg on gmail ?
<slomo> arzajac: what's the problem with it?
<xerxas_> to decode gpg messages I need to access my mail via pop with a gpg enabled clients ?
<xerxas_> or I can simply copy the content of the message ?
<arzajac> May sites do not have fonts properly set up.  The gsfonts-x11 fixes the problem, but it is only a reccommends.  Any chance of making it a depends?
<arzajac> "Many sites' and not May sites....
<bddebian> Anyone have a clue on this:
<bddebian> /usr/include/X11/Xlib.h:3575: error: syntax error before '_X_SENTINEL'
<dholbach> what is before it?
<blueyed> Is there a way to debug-enable a build when using debuild to create .debs from "apt-get source"'d source code?
<bddebian> Looks like it's pulling bad headers to me
<bddebian> blueyed: There should be a nostrip option
<dholbach> blueyed: DebuggingProgramCrash on the wiki knows
<bddebian> gcc -O3 -g -I/usr/X11R6/include -I../../include   -c -o Cache.o Cache.c
<bddebian> In file included from /usr/include/X11/Intrinsic.h:56,
<bddebian>                  from /usr/include/X11/IntrinsicP.h:54,
<bddebian>                  from Cache.c:28:
<dholbach> erm in the code ( /usr/include/X11/Xlib.h) before it
<bddebian> Oh, hehe, sorry
<d2dchat> who manages the Ruby package?
<dholbach> dont worry
<xerxas_> woohoo , uploaded my gpg key
<xerxas_> need to get it signed
<bddebian> xerxas_: Nice
<xerxas_> If i get it signed by a someone that made a lot of patch for gnome and have a signed key, is it enough?
<xerxas_> this guy is vuntz
<xerxas_> he is relatively known
<bddebian> dholbach:
<bddebian> extern char *XSetOMValues(
<bddebian>     XOM                 /* om */,
<bddebian>     ...
<bddebian> ) _X_SENTINEL(0);
<xerxas_> Nafallo: r u here ?
<dholbach> bddebian: another missing header? you should search for the values in /usr/include
<bddebian> It's defined in XfunProto.h
<bddebian> Err Xfuncproto.h
<Surak> Hello, I need assistance on making the way to multiverse to my conexant module package.
<Surak> I suppose this is the correct place to ask it.
<dholbach> bddebian: you might have to include that additionally (since the X stuff split up)
<bddebian> WTF is a Makefile.conf?
<slomo> bddebian: maybe just a makefile with variables which gets included everywhere
<slomo> look at it
<Surak> The package is fine, just needs to be reviewed by a MOTU.
<dholbach> Surak: wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU is what you're looking for
<dholbach> Surak: wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU is what you're looking for
* dholbach pipes innocently
<bddebian> slomo: It's wrong but when I change it, it has no affect.  Do I have to re-run autmoke or something?
<ogra> Surak, has it approval for redistribution from the license holder ?
<slomo> bddebian: depends on the package
<Surak> ogra: 1.   Permitted use. Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without modification, are permitted under the terms set forth herein.
<ogra> what are these terms ?
<ogra> can you put up the license anywhere ?
<Surak> Sure
<ogra> its a requirement for universe that the redistribution through us is allowed
<ogra> s/universe/multiverse
<Surak> I already did, http://laa2.unifacs.br/preview/conexant/conexant-192/
<ogra> elmo will look vers deeply into it..
<ogra> *very
<Surak> Ops, http://laa2.unifacs.br/preview/conexant/conexant-192/LICENSE
<ogra> looks good :) put it on revu ;)
<bddebian> WTF is /usr/X11/app-defaults ?
<ogra> hmm, shoudlt that be in /etc ?
<ogra> *shouldnt
<Surak> ogra: dholbach: thanks!
<ogra> bddebian, doesnt exist here
<dholbach> Surak: for what? :)
<Surak> For answering me. I'm asking the same thing here for about a week in different times :-)
<dholbach> you should have pinged each and everyone on the channel list :-p
<bddebian> ogra: I know, for me either :-)
<Surak> One more week and maybe this would be the case!
<bddebian> But I have a configure blah --x-defaults=/etc/X11/app-defaults  ??
<ogra> bddebian, where did you see it ?
<bddebian> ogra: felt   debian/rules on configure
<dholbach> Surak: if you have ideas for iumprovement of the MOTU documentation of the wiki, be sure to tell us about it
<dholbach> Surak: it's always good to hear from somebody, who doesnt know all the places yet
<ogra> bddebian, --x-defaults=/etc/X11/app-defaults sounds ok... the package doesnt rspect this ?
<bddebian> I don't know it FTBFSs and I'm just looking for problems :-)
<Surak> dholbach: I reached a place completely different than those wiki entries when I was looking for information. Two minutes and I can tell you where
<bddebian> ogra: This is the line I'm trying to affect: gcc -O3 -g -I/usr/X11/include -I../../include   -c -o Cache.o Cache.c
<bddebian> Ohh, wait, it did fix it
<bddebian> Hmm
<ogra> :)
<bddebian> Same FTBFS though :-(
<bddebian> Oh, wrong path again...
* bddebian kicks himself
<Surak> dholbach: hm, the new member appointment.
<dholbach> Surak: which page is it?
<bddebian> Hmm, still b0rked
<dholbach> bddebian: missing build-depends?
<bddebian> dholbach: NO, that _X_SENTINEL error
<dholbach> yeah
<bddebian> Ohh, yeah it could be but I don't know what
<dholbach> you include the header file, but it's not in the build-depends?
<bddebian> All the headers it fails on are there afaict
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> hm
<dholbach> what package is it?
<bddebian> felt
<dholbach> iwll have a look
<bddebian> Thx
<bddebian> It's probably something stupid that I am just missing
<dholbach> mightbe not :-p
<Surak> dholbach: https://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/processes/newmember/
<dholbach> Surak: ah ok
<dholbach> Surak: yeah, there's a bit of discrepancy, but http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU IS the starting point :)
<bddebian> Fsck, I'm getting nothing accomplished today either at work or with MOTU :'-(
<dholbach> bddebian: you do, i got some malone mails from you
<bddebian> Today?
<dholbach> bddebian: and you do a hell lot more than many other motus :)
<bddebian> Ohh, yeah
* bddebian has a goal to have bugs < 500 and all UnmetDeps cleaned
<ogra> bddebian, wow
<bddebian> Oh and GL/GLU transistions
<ogra> you deserve a golden medal if you make that...
<bddebian> Well since the number of bugs keeps growing, I think I'm screwed ;-P
<ogra> if you make the other two goals i'd vote already for this medal :p
<bddebian> Well everything left on UnmetDeps and GL/GLU are FTBFS as far as I know now.. :-(
<bddebian> Who is working on/with beagle?
<tseng> not me
<bddebian> I think bug #1859 is bunk.  I don't see a build-dep for wv anything in beagle ??
<bddebian> tseng: Damnit, ogra says its YOU :-)
<tseng> haha!
<ogra> tseng, who cares for beagle now ? if not you ?
<ogra> anyway, libwv2-dev is there
<bddebian> Yeah but it's not a build-dep
<tseng> beagle can use libwv
<tseng> but we dont build with it
<bddebian> Ohh
<bddebian> Should we?
<ogra> hmm, but i thought there was another package responsible for MS docs...
<tseng> do I care about searching MS docs on my linux box?
<tseng> not really
<tseng> if someone wants to build and test it, great
<tseng> i dont even have a copy of word
<ogra> what was the package schweeb did ?
<tseng> gsf-sharp
<ogra> wasnt that for MS office stuff ?
<tseng> is ppt or something
<ogra> i thought it was more general
<tseng> libgsf-1 - Structured File Library - runtime version
<tseng> whatever that means
<ogra> lol
<ogra> yay for descriptive descriptions :p
<bddebian> heh
* bddebian just ignores the bug I guess
<tseng> http://directory.fsf.org/iface/GNOME_apps/libgsf.html
<tseng> this page says it all
<bddebian> rbelem-amd64: Ahh, good can you test Wesnoth for me? ;-)
<tseng> 'libgsf' is a simple i/o library that can read and write common file types and handle structured formats that provide file-system-in-a-file semantics.
<tseng> right..
<tseng> tbh i dont know what it does
<rbelem-amd64> bddebian: yes =)
<rbelem-amd64> bddebian: i bought this machine yesterday ;-)
<bddebian> rbelem-amd64: Nice.  I want to get one :-)
<rbelem-amd64> bddebian: i was without machine, one friend give me a amd-k6-ii 500 for some days, then he take it back 2 days ago
<bddebian> :-(
<rbelem-amd64> bddebian: i was forced to buy this :(
<dholbach> bddebian: sorry, no luck
<dholbach> bddebian: but the debian maintainer should have a look around if there's a new upstream release
<dholbach> the code is VERY broken
<bddebian> dholbach: Well that doesn't help me clean up my list :-)
<bddebian> dholbach: Thanks for taking the time to look
<dholbach> if we could sync it, it would
<dholbach> don't worry
<rbelem-amd64> bddebian: but now i'm happy, full of debt, but happy :)
<bddebian> :-)
<rbelem-amd64> bddebian: i'll test Wesnoth now ;-)
<bddebian> dholbach: No newer version on sourceforge :-(
<dholbach> bddebian: cvs fixes?
<bddebian> What do I look like a developer? :-)
<bddebian> I don't understand how we can have all this broken code around :-(
<\sh> re
<dholbach> bddebian: that's a procedure we all have to go through
<dholbach> trust me
<\sh> now the wlan test
<ogra> the wlan test ?
<\sh> yes
<ogra> \sh, you were at saturn ?
<\sh> i'm sorry only with windows first, and after that with a usb dongle under linux
<\sh> ogra: yeah..but no linksys anymore in cologne
<ogra> heh....
<\sh> not at all saturns, no mediamarkts, no karstadt no nothing
<ogra> i know the feeling... thats how i ended up with all the wlan crap here
<\sh> yep...but this guy at saturn recognized me ;)
<\sh> he's using ubuntu :)
<\sh> and he promised me to order a linksys wrt54-gs ;)
<\sh> wlan works...unsecured
<spayne> i have a day off school tomorrow
<spayne> so i want to have another bash at packaging
<bddebian> spayne: Great
<\sh> ok...wpa connect works as well with the to r200
<Tonio-> hi everyone
<bddebian> Heya Tonio-
<bddebian> rbelem: Did Wesnoth kill your machine? ;-P
<rbelem> bddebian: yes :(
<bddebian> REALLY?
<rbelem> bddebian: when the instalation process begin the machine freeze
<rbelem> :/
<bddebian> Hmm
<rbelem> bddebian: i'll try again
<bddebian> Sheesh, I swear every line of code with ncbi-tools6 has a warning :-)
<dholbach> ouch
<bddebian> Yeah, I'm thinking I'm not going to meet my goals :'-(
<dholbach> bddebian: shortly before the hoary release i realised that my own code wasnt that bad :)
<bddebian> dholbach: ;-)
<dholbach> (after having seen millions of bug logs)
<bddebian> Heya crimsun
<crimsun> heya bddebian
<dholbach> hey daniel
<crimsun> hey daniel :-)
<bddebian> crimsun: Oh, hey, have you ever gotten anywhere with vlc?
<bddebian> Doh I scared him away.. :-)
<spayne> dholbach: what package is needed to get the debi command>
<dholbach> devscripts
<spayne> thanks
<crimsun> (I hate my connection)
<crimsun> bddebian: yes, I have. It builds on i386 and ppc, still working on amd64.
<ogra> crimsun, i havent seen elmo today yet...
<ogra> but i guess he'll be around for the CC meeting in 30min
<crimsun> bddebian: I'm trying to reduce the size of our diff.gz by using the -dev packages from ffmpeg, so we're waiting on libpostproc-dev to be promoted to universe
<crimsun> ogra: all right, thanks
<crimsun> ogra: it would be nice to ask for a sync of ffmpeg from Sid while we're at it, since the newer vlc b-ds on it
<ogra> sure
<ogra> but dont we have a ffmpeg from marillat ?
<ogra> (which has a epoch afaik)
<ogra> that will generate probs i guess
<crimsun> oh! so _that_'s why the 3: epoch exists...
<ogra> we'll at least need to add the epoch to the debian package
<crimsun> ok, then we'll need to merge it in
<crimsun> yeah, we can skip asking for a sync then. Thanks. :)
<ogra> actually i dont even think the current package is from amrillat, but we once had one from there which brought the epoch in
<ogra> (in warty i think)
<ogra> epochs are sooo evil !
<crimsun> yes they are
<cevizoglu> the same elf binary will work on ppc and i386, right?
<spayne> brb
<bddebian> I was told I couldn't bring in ffmpeg2 ... :-)
<crimsun> ffmpeg2? :-)
<bddebian> From Marillat
<bddebian> Source package
<bddebian> builds libavcodec2
<crimsun> ah
* crimsun scoots, will try to make it to CC. Later folks!
<ivoks> this channel gets bigger every day :)
<ogra> thats its intention ;)
<markuman> ivoks, when i watched first time here, there were ~120 people i think...
<dholbach> markuman: when i was here there was 1 guy, or two maybe :)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> i camed when here was maybe 15 people :)
<markuman> :-)
* zyga does have some family photos if anyone is in a mood ;-)
<ivoks> :)
<dholbach> hehe
<markuman> my first packages is upload allready....
<zyga> 'here I am with other # friends'
<ivoks> look... this is my first q with dholbach :)
<markuman> i hope it will be everything right with it
<dholbach> your first Q with me?:)
<ivoks> query :)
<rbelem> bddebian: now it worked well ;-)
<dholbach> ah :)
<ivoks> dholbach: family photos :)
<ivoks> markuman: what package?
<markuman> ivoks, xfce4-taskmanager
<rbelem> bddebian: nice game :)
<ivoks> we didn't have that one before?
<markuman> ivoks, no. in debian packages wasnt it too
<ivoks> ah, great!
<bddebian> rbelem: Uh oh, now I have you. ;-)  Thx for doing that
<ivoks> guys
<ivoks> we worked hard today
<ivoks> it's time to play some network game
<markuman> ivoks, but ive build it only for amd64 :-/
* bddebian doesn't feel like he's worked hard :'-(
<zyga> 'our first group-hug'? ;-)
<rbelem> bddebian: =)
<bddebian> Heading home, later gang
<ajmitch> morning
<dholbach> hi ajmitch
<\sh> evening ajmitch :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: sorry, just got to add the Replaces line onto pwlib, will you be around for much longer? :)
<ajmitch> hey \sh  :)
* ajmitch is glad he'll soon be in the same timezone as you all ;)
<dholbach> ajmitch: a bit, yes :)
<dholbach> ajmitch: replaces? no conflicts on older version? (not sure)
<ajmitch> it was just 1.8.7-1 that had symlinks in the wrong package
<ajmitch> I've got the packages here to upgrade from
<ajmitch> will test soon :)
<ajmitch> bbiab
<ivoks> ah, time for bed
<ivoks> see you guys...
<dholbach> hey zakame !
<dholbach> :)
<dholbach> welcome
<zakame> hello all
<dholbach> you're just right here - 2 weeks to fix the universe :)
<\sh> hehe
<ogra> hi zakame
<zakame> I hope I'm not too late
<zakame> ogra: hi! =)
<dholbach> no, surely not
<ogra> its never to late to join MOTU ;)
<zakame> :) I'm reading MOTUGettingIntoIt now... so, I gather that I start packaging first then I put these packages for review, like debian-mentors?
<dholbach> zakame: wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU is for the review part
<zakame> ah
<dholbach> zakame: we're currently working on wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo and wiki.ubuntu.com/Transitions
* ajmitch wanders back in
<dholbach> the big difference to the debian maintainer world is that we do team maintenance
<zakame> dholbach: yes, I am looking at MOTUTodo right now
<dholbach> so if you happen to have a fix for a problem, you're welcome to get it in :)
<zakame> dholbach: cool!
<infinito> \sh: excuse me... the gcfilms problem of this morning on debian seems to be fixed now
<infinito> maybe someone can try to sync it now....
<\sh> infinito: we have to check it first...do it tomorrow...
<\sh> have it on my todo
<infinito> \sh: ok, thanks
<ajmitch> 'some patch for stupid pbuilders'? heh..
<infinito> hehehe
<ajmitch> what an attitude :)
<infinito> the debian packager told me in his pbuilder there was no problem
<infinito> he wrote the changelog... ;)
<ajmitch> yet everyone else can reproduce it :P
<zakame> stupid pbuilders?!?
<infinito> i'm still not sure what was happening... we just disabled the write permissions check
<zakame> hello bddebian
<bddebian> Heya zakame
<dholbach> bddebian: zakame is here to beat you in the upload statistics soon :)
<nybble> i salute all of you. brave souls you are :D
<dholbach> hey nybble
<nybble> hello dholbach
<nybble> whats shakin?
<dholbach> BUG TRIAGE :)
<bddebian> dholbach: Oh yeah?
<dholbach> absolutely
<bddebian> Hmm, I better get to work then eh? :-)
<zakame> hehe
<ajmitch> dholbach: schedule more bug days thx ;)
<bddebian> Yeah, we want < 500!!
<dholbach> ajmitch: everyday's a bug day
<ajmitch> dholbach: I know, but some days are extra special
<dholbach> yeah, like christmas :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: it helps motivate people when you know that others are going to be around to help triage on a particular day
<dholbach> absolutely
<dholbach> we hope to achieve a bit of it in the desktpTeam
* ajmitch has to get bug fixing asap
<ajmitch> otherwise my karma will slip & I will die :)
<bddebian> It does?  Who was there for the last one?
* bddebian ducks
<ajmitch> they were all scared off by your smart comments :P
<bddebian> :'-(
<bddebian> :-)
<ajmitch> dholbach: so the desktop team needs some clear direction & leadership if it's going to succeed :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: got a list of tasks that people can easily help out with?
<dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam
<bddebian> You mean like the clear direction we all get?
#ubuntu-motu 2006-09-25
<imbrandon> see i wish i had the time to monitor the forum and spot "bug reports" and lock/delete the thread and ask them to file a bug report
<imbrandon> that would help sigifgantly
<Fujitsu> See, I wish forum users were sane and didn't use it as a bug tracker.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: exactly
<Fujitsu> Oh look, it even says up the top:
<Fujitsu>  Please note developers are not very active here. If you wish to file a bug report please do so here.
<Fujitsu> Where `here' is a link
<imbrandon> but a good modirator that would stiffle it a few times and it would become the norm
<imbrandon> but its not
<imbrandon> instead there posted there, ignored by us and given "hacks" to "fix" it that later becomes a big problem
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: they ignore that repeatedly
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, I noticed :P
<ivoks> maybe if they add an icon for "here"...
<ivoks> :)
<imbrandon> or a big RED <h1>here</h1>
<ivoks> nah... malone is iconless
<ivoks> it wouldn't work
<Fujitsu> Maybe if they took up half the posting window with a big, red, flashing `DON'T POST BUG REPORTS HERE, DIMWITS'
<Fujitsu> Then, and only then, will they see it.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: and ignore it
<Fujitsu> Probably.
<LaserJock> shesh
<LaserJock> :-)
<ivoks> :))
<LaserJock> the thing is, I confess, I was a forum person. That's how I got introduced to Ubuntu
<ivoks> just imagine how many forum posts you would need for this type of conversation...
<LaserJock> heh
<ivoks> well, it was fun, now it's time to kill the eye
<ivoks> i wish you happy flaming and ranting
<LaserJock> hehe
<Fujitsu> Hah.
<imbrandon> heh
<ivoks> try to do some work while taking a break :)
* Fujitsu looks for more bugs to fix.
<Fujitsu> Anybody got any ideas?
<LaserJock> heh
<imbrandon> nah we're all just voicing our opinions, i think we all adult enough to know its nothing personal
<ivoks> 'night
<imbrandon> gnight ivoks
<Fujitsu> 'night
<imbrandon> brb food time
<LaserJock> maybe it's just me. I just feel these community interaction issues are pretty important
<LaserJock> maybe I should just vent to jono ;-)
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, they are very important.
* Fujitsu taps packages.qa.debian.org.
<Fujitsu> Wakey wakey..
<LaserJock> heh
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: lists.d.o is awol as well
<LaserJock> does packages.qa.debian.org work well in CLI browsers?
<zul> maybe it got hacked again
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, I noticed.
<LaserJock> :(
<ajmitch> hm, that's master..
* ajmitch gets asked for a password
<ajmitch> and it should have my ssh key on there
<LaserJock> heh, DDs get to have all the cool stuff
<Fujitsu> Yeah, those evil evil uber-privileged things :P
<ajmitch> " master accounts temporarily disabled"
<ajmitch> from #d-d topic
<LaserJock> yikes
<Fujitsu> Fantastic.
<ajmitch> yeah
<Fujitsu> Master accounts, though? What are they?
<LaserJock> could that be a normal thing? or does that indicate a hack?
<Fujitsu> `APT IS BORKED!!!'
<ajmitch> LaserJock: it's not particularly normal, could be hardware
<Bazzi> ohnoes!
<Fujitsu> What is a master account?
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: master.debian.org
<Fujitsu> That's not very useful, as connection is refused... What is master.debian.org?
<imbrandon> heh would help if it came up
<LaserJock> ok, so out of lynx, elinks, and w3m which do you guys prefer
<Fujitsu> elinks.
* LaserJock is trying his best to keep us OT ;-)
<imbrandon> i like elinks
<imbrandon> hahaha
* imbrandon is the master of -motu OT
<LaserJock> I'm not really
<LaserJock> I'm trying to work on better development efficiency
<LaserJock> as I have decided that I must be the slowest MOTU alive
<imbrandon> lol
<Fujitsu> No you're not. I haven't seen all 53 MOTUs in this channel at all, let alone recently. :P
<tseng> there are 53 now?
<tseng> holy crap
<tseng> im going to stop vouching for people
<tseng> once it was like me, ajmitch, ogra, dholbach
<LaserJock> mhm
<tseng> dholbach did all the work
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: just becosue someone wasent on irc dosent mean they arent active ;)
<ajmitch> tseng: I don't bother supporting people unless I worked with them a bit
<LaserJock> ahh, the good old days
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, true... But I haven't seen uploads from most of them either.
<zul> ajmitch: you never supported me ;(
<ajmitch> tseng: don't forget crimsun
<tseng> yeah
<ajmitch> makes us feel old, and ubuntu has only been round awhile
<Fujitsu> Ooh, nice.
<LaserJock> the interesting thing is you guys still to much of the work
<tseng> I am old
<LaserJock> s/to/do/
<Fujitsu> I can tell Thunderbird to order by sender, and then group by sender, so I get a list of all the people who have uploaded packages.
<ajmitch> tseng: 41 people in core-dev now
<ajmitch> zul: yeah well..
<zul> hehe..
<tseng> ajmitch: well
<tseng> ajmitch: jdub is still in there for example
<imbrandon> jdub quit canonical , not core dev
<tseng> lamont, mako
<ajmitch> chmj
<tseng> imbrandon: he wouldnt be in there if not for working at canonical at the begining
<tseng> nor mako
<ajmitch> chris halls hasn't done anything on ubuntu for a long time
<tseng> i dont even remember that name
<ajmitch> haggai
<tseng> oh
<ajmitch> was around very early on
<LaserJock> he worked on Kubuntu, no?
<tseng> not since wart
<tseng> y
<Fujitsu> Never heard of him.
<tseng> he was doing openoffice at the begining
<tseng> and was supposed to lead motu
<imbrandon> haggai was kubuntu guy way way back
<ajmitch> no wonder he's gone
<tseng> yeah
<LaserJock> he's around, just not active, I think
<ajmitch> we probably have more inactive MOTUs
<ajmitch> like people that haven't been seen for a year
<imbrandon> that and memberships are only 2 years, so alot will expire soon if they dont renew
* ajmitch checks his coredev membership
<tseng> in another year
<tseng> there were no motus in warty
<tseng> mdz and seb128 uploaded for me
<ajmitch> and membership is from when they started using launchpad
<imbrandon> yea it might be good to have them yearly instead of 2 years, but honestly i dont see it hurting anything
<ajmitch> 2005-09-07
<tseng> imbrandon: gpg keys floating around is hurting something
<tseng> see Debian
<ajmitch> well, so I've been core dev for more than a year & I didn't realise
<imbrandon> tseng: true
<tseng> ajmitch: how do you check that
<ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-core-dev/+members
<ajmitch> yours is dated from the start of using LP
<tseng> oh
<nixternal> ajmitch: sign me up! haha, i couldn't dev/package my way out of a wet paperbag ;)
<tseng> clever
<Fujitsu> I think yearly might be a better idea, as a lot can happen in two years...
<tseng> expires 2007-06-06
<LaserJock> nixternal: lol
* imbrandon expires  2008-09-10
* Fujitsu doesn't expire, as hasn't been approved yet. Win.
<tseng> nice
<Fujitsu> I
<Fujitsu> *I don't expire! Yay.
<imbrandon> lol
<nixternal> Brandon Holtsclaw   	2006-09-09  	2008-09-10  	Approved
<nixternal> that is scarey
<nixternal> i think there is a typo there ;)
<imbrandon> yup a whole 15 days as core now
<Fujitsu> After one month in -dev, that was really impressive.
<imbrandon> ok time to do some RL stuff, bbiab
<nixternal> im done with RL, it just isn't as satisfying as FL
<Fujitsu> FL?
* ajmitch needs to find some spare time before freeze
<Fujitsu> Fake Life?
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, why?
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: to get stuff done, of course
<Fujitsu> Ubuntu stuff?
<Fujitsu> Who needs spare time..
<ajmitch> yes, ubuntu stuff
<ajmitch> that's why I said freeze
<Fujitsu> True.
<Fujitsu> It could have just been NZ freezing over :P
<ajmitch> fwiw, I was right about master.d.o
<ajmitch> just had a hardware upgrade
<tseng> ajmitch: beagle is beating f-spot on bugs now, btw
<tseng> :P
<ajmitch> yay
<tseng> about the same number of "zomg crash!!!!1"
<tseng> my favorite is still bug 34074
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 34074 in f-spot "Dapper becomes unstable when disk full after f-spot import" [Low,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/34074
<ajmitch> oh yes
<Fujitsu> Thanks, crimsun.
<ajmitch> about the only valid part of that is that f-spot could check for free space
<tseng> so could 'touch'
<tseng> or 'xuath'
<tseng> xauth
<tseng> got bit by that the other day
<Fujitsu> Hahah, yes.
<LaserJock> does importing create a copy?
<tseng> yes of course
<tseng> off a camera
<ajmitch> except that f-spot tends to copy a few hundred MB of photos
<ajmitch> so it'd be 'friendly' to warn
<tseng> it can also copy to its own dir
<LaserJock> tseng: but if you had it somewhere else on you drive
<tseng> ala itunes
<tseng> LaserJock: it can
<ajmitch> hence why the bug is low priority
<ajmitch> should probably be wishlist
<LaserJock> yeah, I noticed that in iTunes the other day
* ajmitch retitles bug
<LaserJock> I was wondering why I seemed to have twice the diskusage I should have
<LaserJock> and then I found I had 2 copies of all my music
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, I love that, although I haven't used iTunes in years.
* imbrandon hugs iTunes
<ajmitch> bug 34074
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 34074 in f-spot "F-Spot does not warn user if the free space is low before importing photos" [Low,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/34074
<ajmitch> long title
<Fujitsu> Good, good.
<crimsun> I dislike the fact that I have to jump through hoops to listen to songs I buy from iTMS.
<imbrandon> crimsun: heh true, burn to cd-rw , re-rip
<crimsun> ick, no.
<LaserJock> I don't get music online so I've never had to worry about that
<LaserJock> what does it do?
<crimsun> while I was still able to purchase using iTunes 5.0.1, I used jHymn 0.9.2 to strip the DRM. With the introduction of iTunes 7, Apple locked out previous versions. Now I have to use QTFairuse6 2.4+.
<Fujitsu> Or you could just not use iTMS.
<crimsun> true, but paying 3x the amount for CDs doesn't seem very economical either
<imbrandon> exactly
<Fujitsu> True...
<imbrandon> itunes isnt all bad, they had to do the drm to get the riaa off their ass, now it bit them ( the price wars )
<imbrandon> but itues and itv are very nice
<crimsun> (and again, I made that tradeoff, so I'm willing to live with its "shackle" ramifications)
<imbrandon> crimsun: what do you use to purchase itms songs on linux ? anything?
<crimsun> I don't. I reboot into Windows.
<crimsun> iTunes doesn't need to pollute my Linux partition kthx.
<joejaxx> imbrandon: well i found out my packages does not allow you to upgrade lol
<imbrandon> to teach myself pyqt i started making a itunes clone ( not that we need another music player etc etc etc , its a learning experince )
<joejaxx> crimsun: haha :P
<imbrandon> so i was just curious
<Fujitsu> What does `Pending' as a package release status mean?
<imbrandon> no idea
<Fujitsu> Hm.
<Fujitsu> It's `Published' now, so I presume it just means that Publisher has seen it, but hasn't actually looked at it.
<Fujitsu> 'cause it had no date/time either.
<crimsun> bah, I can't be arch-specific with dh_install -si --fail-missing . :(
<Fujitsu> What does the number in brackets after `Pending' in the to-be-built list mean?
<Q-FUNK> Fujitsu: packages in the queue before that one?
<Fujitsu> I don't believe so, as there aren't that many in the queue.
<Q-FUNK> where is the queue visible, btw?
<Fujitsu> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+queue
* Q-FUNK is wondering what's takign so long with the sync
<Fujitsu> Gah. There are ~328 buildd-minutes of language packs in the queue... And since they're only building on the two i386 buildds, they're going to be blocking things for ages :(
<Fujitsu> Q-FUNK, Tuesdays and Fridays are archive days.
<Q-FUNK> indeed
<Q-FUNK> and it was acked a while back already
<Fujitsu> Yes, they can wait for up to a week or so.
<Q-FUNK> when is it that edgy is expected to release?
<Fujitsu> October 26th.
<Fujitsu> Beta on the 28th, same day as UniverseFreeze.
<Q-FUNK> ah.  still 1 month then. :)
<Q-FUNK> oh
<Q-FUNK> that's a bit too close
<Fujitsu> Yes, it is.
<Fujitsu> Only important bug fixes after UniverseFreeze unless you get an exception approved.
<Q-FUNK> well, this fixes something that actually prevented usage.
<Fujitsu> Which package?
<Q-FUNK> cups-pdf
<Q-FUNK> user priviledge separation prevented usage.
<Fujitsu> Ah, that one.
<Fujitsu> Well, all outstanding syncs will be processed before the freeze.
<Q-FUNK> fixed since cups 1.2 allows using permissions on the back-end as a way to control this.
<Q-FUNK> so I adjusted that in postinst.
<Q-FUNK> hopefully :)
<Q-FUNK> I would just like to finally put this one behind me. That issue has been a showstopper on Ubuntu for ages and I'm glad a solution was finaly found.
<Nafallo> is anyone picking up audacious from revu?
<Nafallo> seems the packager gave up
<Fujitsu> I'll have a look.
<Nafallo> yay :-)
<Nafallo> people requested it on #ubuntu-se ;-)
<Fujitsu> Yes, I lot of people do.
<Nafallo> :-)
<Fujitsu> Stupid 64kbps... This'll take about 10min to download...
<Fujitsu> Woah.
<Fujitsu> That's a huge .diff.gz.
<crimsun> Q-FUNK: what's the bug #?
<Nafallo> hmm, there is no link to the REVU wikipage from REVU ;-)
<Nafallo> where do I file a bug? :-)
<Fujitsu> crimsun, are you good for the TB meeting this week?
<imbrandon> Nafallo: https://launchpad.net/products/revu/+filebug
<imbrandon> ;)
<Nafallo> wow. I didn't even think there might be a product there :-
<Nafallo> :-P
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: finaly going for MOTU ?
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, yes, with LaserJock's (and hopefully crimsun's) support.
<imbrandon> great ( i'd be happy to come cheer too as i've caught the few crimsun dident get ) heh
<Fujitsu> Ooh, yes please :)
<imbrandon> whens the TB ?
* bddebian will come and heckle
<imbrandon> hehe
<Fujitsu> 0600 Wednesday here...
<crimsun> Fujitsu: unlikely. Tuesdays are very bad days. I will attempt to be present, but unfortunately I can't guarantee I'll be able to make it. I'm happy to send an e-mail in my stead, though.
<Fujitsu> So 2000 UTC Tuesday
<Fujitsu> crimsun, OK, an email is fine :)
<imbrandon> ugh vista rc1 all over the internet
<imbrandon> when will people learn
<Fujitsu> Yeah.
<crimsun> there's some publicly available build that's newer than rc1, no?
<Fujitsu> bddebian, you can support me?
<imbrandon> crimsun: yea
<bddebian> Sure
<Fujitsu> Yay :)
<crimsun> well dang, if bddebian is supporting you, then I doubt you'll need anyone's support
<imbrandon> crimsun: but its not a "true" rc , as in this might be what gets burned , etc etc etc
<Fujitsu> Yeah, I love that misnaming.
<bddebian> crimsun: Yeah, like my opinion means shit around here
<Fujitsu> crimsun, heheh.
<crimsun> your karma belies you, bddebian
* Fujitsu points bddebian to BddebianIsAGod.
<LaserJock> 'nough said
<imbrandon> ms == beta = alpha , rc == beta , rtm == rc
<bddebian> crackheads
* Fujitsu wonders when Soyuz karma will be implemented.
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, rc = alpha, rtm = beta.
<Fujitsu> Have you seen the RC?
<imbrandon> lol
<Fujitsu> I hear it's terribly buggy.
<imbrandon> no i dont have any boxes i would install it on
<Fujitsu> Neither do I.
<imbrandon> everything here is osx 10.4 or kubuntu ( and one dapper server )
<Fujitsu> I didn't think I'd have so many supporters :)
* Nafallo passes bddebian the pipe :-)
<imbrandon> lol
<Q-FUNK> crimsun: you already ack'ed it :)
<bddebian> *puff* *puff*
<crimsun> Q-FUNK: I've acked a few hundred, so that's not saying much ;-)
<imbrandon> puff puff give puff puff give, dont mess up the rotation
<Q-FUNK> oh
<Q-FUNK> just a sec
<Q-FUNK> bug #61626
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61626 in cups-pdf "Please sync cups-pdf (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61626
<Fujitsu> Gawd, Audacious is shocking.
<Nafallo> MOTUs should be MOTCs :-). Masters of the Crackpipes :-)
<Q-FUNK> heh
<imbrandon> lol
<crimsun> Q-FUNK: should be processed on Tuesday (wasn't acked til 9/23)
<Nafallo> Fujitsu: in a good or a bad way? :-)
<Q-FUNK> crimsun: purrrrrrrrfect :)
<Fujitsu> Nafallo, I think I'm about to choke to death on it :P
<Nafallo> ehrm... that's bad then :-P
<Fujitsu> Yeah, but I'm not going to give up.
<Nafallo> that's the spirit! :-)
* Nafallo wonders if he has a REVU account or so :-P
* Nafallo logged in :-)
<Nafallo> whoever did that recover password thing made it just right :-)
<Nafallo> I wish all those damn e-mailproviders could pick the solution up ;-)
<Nafallo> s/the/that/
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> it seems to have a bug, but it's really pretty cool
<Nafallo> wfm :-)
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> has anyone permission to the _source.changes on revu? :-P
<Nafallo> if not, why are they kept? ;-)
<Lathiat> no
<Lathiat> because they are gpg signed
<Lathiat> if they were publicly available anyoen could just go and upload them
<Lathiat> (the package in revu, if they were in the keyring)
<Nafallo> eh? so mv the damn things to /dev/null then? :-)
<minghua> many admins want to look at the .changes?
<minghua> but I agree not showing them in REVU is a good idea
<ajmitch> Nafallo: why does it bug you? :)
* Nafallo finds them to just clutter the interface atm ;-)
<minghua> it's damn confusing
<Nafallo> ajmitch: I'm a minimalist ;-)
<ajmitch> Nafallo: don't look at a package that has been built on tiber then
<ajmitch> you get about 20 other files listed
<Nafallo> oh?
<ajmitch> build logs, file lists, shlibs, postinsts, etc
<Nafallo> I can look at those files, right? :-)
<ajmitch> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3036
<ajmitch> for example
<Nafallo> why show a file I actually _can't_ look at? :-)
<Nafallo> woha
<ajmitch> code is in bzr, go hack it
<Nafallo> hehe, will someday :-)
<Nafallo> we have a freeze coming up now though :-P
* Nafallo looks at nm-stuff :-)
<ajmitch> please do, plug is waiting patiently for his pptp package to be reviewed & uploaded :)
<Plug> actually
<Plug> my PPTP package is still broken
<Plug> (the currently uploaded one, rather so)
<Plug> but I do have a fix in the pipeline
<Plug> and a day off
<Plug> so maybe after lunch! :)
<ajmitch> yay
<Nafallo> :-)
* Fujitsu 's mind explodes at the Audacious build system.
<Fujitsu> What... the... fricking... hell... were... they... thinking?
<Fujitsu> And what were the Soyuz people thinking when they decided that all arch-independent builds should go the the i386 buildds?
<LaserJock> i386 is the only arch that matters, right? ;-)
<Nafallo> Fujitsu: I think that predates soyuz actually. they just ported the existing brokeness to the new system ;-)
<LaserJock> oh I forgot, nobody runs i386 anymore
<Fujitsu> Because we've got over two hours of language pack building, which could be less than 30 minutes if all the buildds were involved.
<Nafallo> LaserJock: feeh :-P. it's more a waste of power not to use the more often idling amd64 machines for it :-)
<Fujitsu> It'd also not be as bad if security was handled by Soyuz, so there'd be 3 i386 buildds.
<Nafallo> aha
<Nafallo> that's where the others went
<ajmitch> yes
<Nafallo> I've wondered that a _looooong_ time now :-)
<Fujitsu> I've known that for a _looooong_ time now :P
<Nafallo> hehe
<Nafallo> my wondering predates soyuz ;-)
<LaserJock> known what?
<Fujitsu> That the buildds are missing because they're doing -security.
<Nafallo> where one buildd from each arch went :-)
<Fujitsu> Anybody know any Audacious developers? I want to murder them.
<Fujitsu> This build system is seriously BAD.
<LaserJock> all they do is -security?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, yes, exactly.
<LaserJock> oh, that's odd
<ajmitch> LaserJock: using the old system of dak
<Fujitsu> 'cause Soyuz can't do it yet.
<bddebian> Fujitsu: So fix it ;-P
<bddebian> Fujitsu: Oh and are you going to do azureus too? :-)
<Nafallo> bddebian: murdering devels? :-)
<Fujitsu> They use autoconf, but not automake.
<imbrandon> dak ? ick
<Fujitsu> bddebian, you little...
<Fujitsu> No Java for me, thankyouverymuchyouevilgod.
<LaserJock> so the other archives are totally done in soyuz, no dak or similar?
<bddebian> heh
<Nafallo> soyuz is like dak-ng :-)
<Fujitsu> Azureus is mess-say.
<Nafallo> Fujitsu: ey! you're switching package? ;-)
<Fujitsu> No!
<Nafallo> ah, good :-)
<Nafallo> not that I will use it... but... :-P
<Fujitsu> I love it how the distclean target doesn't actually remove the Makefiles.
<bddebian> Especially since doko has ideas about it and I can't ever catch him :-(
<Fujitsu> Good, good.
<Fujitsu> We don't want no azureus here.
<slomo_> Fujitsu: better than distclean removing Makefile and Makefile.in ;)
<Fujitsu> slomo_, maybe.
* Nafallo looks at pbuilder-ssh
<Fujitsu> What is it?
<Nafallo> some frontend for remote pbuilding :-)
<minghua> well, my package's distclean removes some of the files the tarball ships
<Fujitsu> Which package, minghua?
<Fujitsu> Nafallo, I think I've got a sane audacious package now.
<Nafallo> nice :-)
* Nafallo downloads
<Fujitsu> Not uploaded yet :P
<Nafallo> yea, noticed ;-)
* Fujitsu pbuilds.
<Fujitsu> It was a very quick change once I worked out what was going on...
<bddebian> Gaaahh, frickin' RL work :'-(
<Fujitsu> He was removing all the files that make distclean didn't clean...
<bddebian> Heya Hobbsee
<Nafallo> oh :-P
<Fujitsu>  /Then/ he ran make distclean, which detected the Makefiles weren't there, and regenerated them all!
<Nafallo> hehe
<Fujitsu> The .diff.gz is now stuff just in debian/, which is looking more promising...
<Fujitsu> Hey Hobbsee.
<ajmitch> Hobbsee!
<Nafallo> yay Fujitsu! :-)
<Hobbsee> hey bddebian , Fujitsu
<Hobbsee> ajmitch!
<Nafallo> people will love you for that :-)
<minghua> Fujitsu: oh, it's scim
<Fujitsu> Fun fun fun.
<Kyral> This is why I'm not on the MOTU track anymore
<minghua> the distclean deletes scim.spec among others
<Kyral> much easier to crank out sourcecode and let you guys handle the packaging :P
<minghua> as I need none of them, I didn't bother (not like I have enough autotools-fu to bother, though)
<Fujitsu> At least you didn't orphan the package at the sight of autotools.
<Kyral> You're right! I ophaned packages at the sight of college! :P
<Fujitsu> Har har.
<Nafallo> Fujitsu: still no source code? I can try to pbuild it here as well and put the source+i386 into my personal repo for #ubuntu-se testing ;-)
<Fujitsu> I'm pbuilding at the moment, and I need to check a couple of things with the source.
<Fujitsu> THis isn't leaving me without a sanity check.
<Nafallo> okidoki :-)
* minghua goes home
<minghua> see you guys later
<Fujitsu> Bye.
<Toadstool> heya everybody
<Fujitsu> Hey Toadstool.
<Toadstool> hi Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> Toadstool, were you wondering about one of my changes in galternatives yesterday>?
<Toadstool> yep
<Toadstool> python-dev -> python in Build-Deps-Indep
<Fujitsu> OK, I'll look at that in a sec, currently attacking audacious.
<Toadstool> packaging it?
<Fujitsu> Finishing somebody else's attempt at packaging it.
<Toadstool> hmm Maxence's attempt
<Fujitsu> Yes.
<Toadstool> Fujitsu: have you seen http://mentors.debian.net/cgi-bin/sponsor-pkglist?action=details;package=audacious ?
<Fujitsu> No, I haven't. Nafallo just told me to have a look at the one on REVU.
<Toadstool> ok :)
<Nafallo> audacious-locales - Translations of audacious
<Nafallo> what the heck :-P
<Fujitsu> Hahah.
<Fujitsu> OK, this is at least partly sane. I've got no idea about packaging libraries, but this doesn't seem too bad.
<Fujitsu> (Maxence's with my changes)
<Toadstool> good luck with audacious, afaik Maxence had a lot of trouble trying to package it
<Fujitsu> Yes, it looks that way.
<Fujitsu> Gah, I'm really nervous already :(
<Toadstool> hmm?
<Fujitsu> About the TB meeting.
<Fujitsu> (currently dputting, Nafallo)
<Nafallo> nice :-)
<Toadstool> hoho, /me missed something
<Toadstool> Fujitsu: you're running for MOTU at this TB meeting?
<Fujitsu> Toadstool, yes.
<Toadstool> ok, let's join the meeting then ;)
<Fujitsu> :)
* ajmitch wonders when the next meeting is
<zul> i thought it was this week
<ajmitch> oh nice & early for Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> 8am Wednesday for you, ajmitch.
<Kyral> The answer is 42
<Fujitsu> 6am, I'll get up about 1.5 hours earlier than normal, nothing special.
<Toadstool> alright, 20h UTC was fine when I was in France...
<Fujitsu> Kyral, but of course
<Fujitsu> Toadstool, ouch.
<Fujitsu> France is + 3 or 4?
<Toadstool> hmm never mind, I'll be at work
<Toadstool> +2
<Hobbsee> 6am meetings are great :P
<Toadstool> heh
* ajmitch wonders if he should support Fujitsu 
<zul> 3am meetings are even better
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, if you want :)
* Toadstool was going to do something smart but totally forgot what...
<bddebian> heh
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: it's not whether I want to, it's whether I should :)
<Fujitsu> I've got quite a number of MOTUs supporting me now... I'm surprised.
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, obviously.
<Fujitsu> If you should, then :P
* LaserJock marks his edgy spec "review"
<LaserJock> I wonder if mdz will look at it
<Fujitsu> Ah, that one.
<Toadstool> Fujitsu: you'll have to bribe ajmitch ;)
<Fujitsu> I didn't realise that was yours.
<zul> heh it better not be like the others LaserJock
<zul> LaserJock: url? :)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: hah, good luck
<LaserJock> https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/edubuntu-dynamic-menu
<Fujitsu> That will be very useful.
<LaserJock> it was already approved
<LaserJock> once
<LaserJock> and it's implemented
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, noted.
<LaserJock> so I'd think it'd be ok to mark it approved
<Fujitsu> I'd presume so.
<Fujitsu> 160 language packs to go...
<LaserJock> sometimes I really dislike how great (internationalization) Ubuntu is ;-)
<ajmitch> patience...
<Fujitsu> Why oh why can't it build them on all the buildds...
<LaserJock> I suppose that'd be more complicated, but it seems like a good idea
<zul> heh open office is a bitch to build apparently as well
<Fujitsu> I don't see how it could be much more complicated.
<Fujitsu> zul, of course.
<Toadstool> this package is a buildd DoS...
<Fujitsu> Ja.
<LaserJock> heh
<Fujitsu> The language-packs aren't great either.
<Toadstool> heh
<crimsun> hmm, LP is crawling. Hope that isn't my end.
<Fujitsu> Once we have the security buildds back, it should be harder to DoS them with anything.
<Fujitsu> crimsun, I don't think it's your end.
<Fujitsu> It's not using up my entire 64kbps of bandwidth, less than half of it.
<Fujitsu> Whereas other things use up the whole lot.
<imbrandon> crimsun: its crawling here to on my fast cable
* minghua is back
<imbrandon> bbiab
<Fujitsu> It's been slow for ages, but particularly slow just now.
<crimsun> thanks, kinda difficult to tell on this pokey 28.8 ;)
<LaserJock> seems fast to me :/
<Nafallo> Fujitsu: the *.install files look wrong. you should strip of debian/tmp
<Fujitsu> Nafallo, will do... I didn't look at them.
<Nafallo> thought so :-)
<Fujitsu> That does look wrong.
* Fujitsu revamps his wiki page.
<LaserJock> I should do that too :/
<Fujitsu> But you're already a MOTU, and don't have to impress the TB in less than 48 hours :P
<LaserJock> soon enough though
<Nafallo> :-)
<minghua> TB meeting in 48 hours?
<Fujitsu> minghua, about that.
<Fujitsu> 42 hours.
<minghua> yeah, see it in #ubuntu-meeting
<LaserJock> I need to find some main packages to fix
<LaserJock> which is a bit hard this late in the cycle, I suppose
* minghua thinks Fujitsu doesn't need his support though
<Nafallo> WTF
<Nafallo> configure in clean?
<Fujitsu> Nafallo, in audacious?
* Nafallo checks.
<Nafallo> yea, it started to run configure on dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -S -sa
<Nafallo> :-P
<Fujitsu> The Makefile will be doing that, I believe.
<Nafallo> wow
<Nafallo> that's just... wrong :-)
<Fujitsu> It is.
<Fujitsu> See why I wanted to murder them?
<Fujitsu> And it doesn't clean up properly.
<Nafallo> yea
<Nafallo> it won't have much luck on this system finding stuff :-P
<minghua> has http://blog.scorpionworld.it/2006/09/23/ubuntu-releases-evolution/ been mentioned here?
<minghua> that is handy for me as I didn't know what that animals in the codenames are
<minghua> (and drake is a duck :-)
<Nafallo> woah! kewl
<imbrandon> minghua: yea did you see my last blog post on the planet ?
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> minghua: http://planet.ubuntu.com/ ;)
<minghua> imbrandon: yeah, I know where the planet is (reading now)
<Fujitsu> Horay Hedgehog, ey, imbrandon?
<imbrandon> whoops
<imbrandon> fixed
<imbrandon> hrm , sounds like a good time to eat
<minghua> imbrandon: so you think drake is a duck too?
<Fujitsu> minghua, of course it is. I believe SABDFL confirmed it a while ago
<minghua> oh good, I must have missed that
<minghua> (at least is wasn't sent to ubuntu-devel-announcement :-P)
<Nafallo> well, I'm not sure the list existed on that time :-P
<Toadstool> <Fujitsu> And it doesn't clean up properly. <-- haha, audacious... :p
<Fujitsu> Yup :'(
<Fujitsu> I'm off to lunch now, be back shortly.
<zakame> hi all
<LaserJock> hi zakame
<Toadstool> hey zakame
<Fujitsu> Back.
<zakame> hi LaserJock Toadstool Fujitsu :D
<zakame> seen dholbach?
<Fujitsu> Hey zakame.
<Fujitsu> Not today, no.
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia, ping.
<Burgundavia> Fujitsu: pong
<Burgundavia> Fujitsu: issues?
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia, I can't ssh in any more.
<Fujitsu> Can't connect to port 22.
<Burgundavia> Fujitsu: hmm
<Burgundavia> looking
<Fujitsu> Thanks.
<Burgundavia> looks like my desktop machine went down
<Burgundavia> wonder why
<Fujitsu> Good question.
<Burgundavia> given I am in a hotel room in Glenwood Springs, CO, there isn't much I can do about it
<Fujitsu> OK, I'll live without it :)
<Burgundavia> the webserver is still up
<Fujitsu> Yes, I noticed that. I presume port 80 is forwarded to a different machine...
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> the funny thing is, my desktop machine is in my room and the server is in teh public area
<imbrandon> heya zakame , Burgundavia
<ajmitch> hi Burgundavia
<ajmitch> & zakame :)
<Burgundavia> hey imbrandon, ajmitch
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: it's always the way - as soon as you leave, your box goes down
<Fujitsu> Hi again, imbrandon.
<imbrandon> but if your in the same room/building it will stay up for months
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> its like unwritten law
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> bloody murphy
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> I think each time I've gone to australia I've had my system fall over
<imbrandon> heh figures
<ajmitch> at least both times I went this year :)
<zakame> yo imbrandon ajmitch :D
* imbrandon wonders if vista has irssi preinstalled
* imbrandon ducks
<zakame> hopefully
<imbrandon> anyone here ever tried co-linux ?
<joejaxx> imbrandon: no i have not
<joejaxx> are you able to run any linux distro on it?
<joejaxx> or only certain ones
<minghua> joejaxx: from what I heard co-linux has its own distro
<minghua> or rather, co-linux IS a distro
<joejaxx> minghua: oh alright
<minghua> joejaxx: Hmm, apparently I am wrong
<minghua> joejaxx: in co-linux you can run different distros, in their terminology called "coLinux OS", and Debian, Ubuntu and Gentoo are mentioned
<joejaxx> minghua: nice
<joejaxx> i should do that on this laptop
<joejaxx> right now i use vmware + fluxbuntu
* joejaxx is looking at the project right no
<joejaxx> w
<joejaxx> minghua: they have debian
<imbrandon> co-linux is just the kernel
<imbrandon> brb
<Lathiat> is backports working yet?
<ajmitch> are we there yet?
<Lathiat> heh
<Lathiat> i saw mention of some backports stuff somewhere
<Hobbsee> yes
<ajmitch> afaik it should be
<ajmitch> amazing how many users are screaming to grab the latest crack nvidia drivers on the forums
<Lathiat> asifn't have the latest crack
<ajmitch> hm?
<Plug> I want the crack
<Plug> that means I can ditch Xgl
<Plug> and still have 'bling'
<ajmitch> Plug: you want pain, suffering & beta drivers
<Plug> Well, not really
<Plug> which is why I havent changed yet
<ajmitch> I'm surprised that I haven't seen a bug on malone about it
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: give it time.
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: or you just havent looked hard enough
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, you're a nice recently-crowned MOTU... What, if anything, can you recommend in preparation for or during The Meeting?
<Plug> Malone #12345: "Ubuntu developers hate me and wont let me have crack drivers" Unconfirmed, Untriaged
<ajmitch> it's been out for hours!
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 12345 in isdnutils "isdn does not work, fritz avm (pnp?)" [Medium,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/12345
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, I saw one a couple of days ago.
<Hobbsee> it's likely filed under Ubuntu
<Plug> :)
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: oh that's alright then
<Lathiat> hahaha
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: have a few packages that you've done yourself :)
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: know your stuff, know the answers to what they want to ask, and prepare your three-liner
<Fujitsu> Hm, a three-liner...
* Fujitsu works on that.
<Hobbsee> bah.  they didnt mention that for MOTU for me :P
<Fujitsu> But you're Hobbsee!
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: oh yeah, have an awesome cheersquad, so that they feel like they'll get screamed at if they dont let you on board
<Hobbsee> true that
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, I've got a few on my cheer-squad already :)
<Hobbsee> :)
<joejaxx> its Hobbsee! :)
<Fujitsu> Hey LaserJock.
<Fujitsu> Is there any reason Bochs would be built without debugging enabled?
<zakame> back again
<zakame> :D
* keescook waves to zakame
<zakame> yo keescook ! :D
<zakame> how's everything?
<keescook> good, spent the weekend up'ing stuff to REVU.  :)
<zakame> ooh! packaging! :)
<zakame> joining the MOTU very soon? :D
<keescook> yeah, I had to find stuff to package; you got all my other stuff already.  ;)
<zakame> lol
<LaserJock> that's bad when crimsun said oh crap
<ajmitch> accidental freeze-breaking
<LaserJock> still Beta Freeze?
<Fujitsu> Ja.
<crimsun> what's messed up is that I typed apt-cache madison boost before actually doing the merge work
<crimsun> I think I'd better get some sleep before I do that again
<Fujitsu> Quite possibly.
<Fujitsu> Sleep is generally a good idea.
<ajmitch> crimsun: I'm sure they'll be forgiving, as it's not on the cd (afaik)
<ajmitch> they'd be less forgiving if I uploaded f-spot 0.2.1, for example
<Fujitsu> Hahahah.
<zakame> lol
<ajmitch> well I only got approval to upload it post-peta
<ajmitch> s/peta/beta/
<zakame> ajmitch: that's a long time
<dholbach> good morning
<Fujitsu> Morning, dholbach.
<LaserJock> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hey Fujitsu, hey LaserJock
<ajmitch> hi dholbach
<dholbach> heya Andrew
<Kagou> morning
<Fujitsu> Hi Kagou.
<imbrandon> moins dholbach and  Kagou
<imbrandon> ajmitch: how do you turn off join/part messages for a channel in irssi ?
<lastnode> imbrandon, got a wee sec?
<imbrandon> lastnode: sure
<dholbach> hi imbrandon
<dholbach> Fujitsu: you're going for MOTU! Great to hear that!
<lastnode> imbrandon, isnt it /ignore -channels #channel1, #channel2 JOINS PARTS
<dholbach> can somebody look at qgo - somebody requested a merge of it - not sure if I manage it before universe freeze
<lastnode> ?
<lastnode> i think it's something like that
<ajmitch> lastnode: /set default_window_level
<minghua> dholbach: what does qgo still need before getting merged?  (I requested it)
<ajmitch> ah no
<ajmitch>  /set activity_hide_level JOINS PARTS QUITS MODES NICKS
<imbrandon> ajmitch: thanks
<dholbach> minghua: I got a mail by Loc Martin, who requested a merge because a certain issue in Debian was fixed already.
<Fujitsu> dholbach, thanks :)
<dholbach> minghua: I didn't look at it, I was just notified about it and am too busy.
* Fujitsu takes a look at it.
<minghua> dholbach: my request is bug #62101
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62101 in qgo "Please sync qgo (universe) 1.5.1-1 from Debian (main)" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62101
<dholbach> ah super then
<dholbach> thanks minghua
<minghua> dholbach: so it's all set, we just need to wait the archive masters then?
<ajmitch> minghua: if they're subscribed
<ajmitch> lp is taking an age to load the page
<minghua> ajmitch: they are (I subscribed u-a)
<Fujitsu> Anybody got any hints for bugs to fix or new versions to package?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: hehe, looking for more stuff?
<Fujitsu> Of course :)
<Fujitsu> I need something to do :(
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: http://tiber.tauware.de/~laserjock/motuscience/all.html#outdatedinB
<LaserJock> have at it ;-)
<Fujitsu> Hm. I generate my own one of those daily. I didn't realise you did too.
<Fujitsu> And I attacked the first 20 or so a few days back.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: shesh, I've been doing that list since dapper ;-)
<Fujitsu> Aha!
* ajmitch has access to another secret list..
<Fujitsu> I knew about unimultiverse.html, but not the science one :(
<minghua> now LaserJock and Fujitsu both know why packages always disappear from the top of their list :-)
<Fujitsu> Haha.
<LaserJock> hehe
* ajmitch should file syncs to get the zope packages into ubuntu that we're missing
<LaserJock> my list just keeps getting bigger
<LaserJock> but that is to be expected
<ajmitch> http://people.debian.org/~kobold/ubuntu-diff/zope/ <-- looks pretty good after the last round of syncs
<ajmitch> the ones not in ubuntu are in NEW
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, yeah... You can expect a lot of help with science stuff in the future :)
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: I also have it broken down by section and a list of the Ubuntu-Debian diff to see which packages are in one but not the other
<LaserJock> there are an alarming number of new Debian packages that aren't in Ubuntu yet :/
<ajmitch> LaserJock: that's expected
<Fujitsu> Are there!?
<Fujitsu> 35k...
* ajmitch sees zope-securemailhost on the list of outdated packages
<LaserJock> well, I didn't really expect much from science apps
<ajmitch> * Fixed a few typos in the package description. (Closes: #387695)
<ajmitch> big change..
<Fujitsu> 32 packages, owy.
<Fujitsu> I'd check those and file sync requests, but I've got no access to a machine with a fast 'net connection. :(
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: I counted 16 the other day that are new in Debian
<Fujitsu> 32 now :(
<LaserJock> you have to be careful though
<LaserJock> because some of them are not in Ubuntu for a reason
<LaserJock> non-free
<Fujitsu> I'd presume so, yes.
<LaserJock> but there's a decent number that are just new
<Fujitsu> Only stuff in Debian main is suitable in general, right?
<LaserJock> and afew that have gone from non-free to main
<Fujitsu> OK.
<LaserJock> anyway, I just look at the packages.qa.debian.org page to see what section it is in now in Debian
<LaserJock> hmm, did somebody sync/merge libghemical?
<Fujitsu> No, doesn't look like it.
<LaserJock> I think it's a good idea to match libghemical and ghemical versions :-)
<LaserJock> let's see
<Fujitsu> Probably.
<LaserJock> I had python-* on my list
<LaserJock> the big ones you took care of
<Fujitsu> I believe so.
<Fujitsu> Hm.
<Fujitsu> New ghemical and libghemical two days ago.
<LaserJock> really?
<Fujitsu> Yes.
<Fujitsu> Oops.
<LaserJock> we need to tell azeem to stop uploading so much ;-)
<Fujitsu> Oops, 13 days ago,
<Fujitsu> Entered testing two or three days ago...
<Fujitsu> So we just need the new libghemical.
<LaserJock> ah yes
<Fujitsu> There's already a sync request..
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<Fujitsu> It's even a request by me :P
<LaserJock> I was thinking if I had any time I'd look at the tex packages :/
<LaserJock> haha
<Fujitsu> Filed 9 days ago, hasn't been acked yet, though.
<Fujitsu> Bug #60676.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 60676 in libghemical "Please sync libghemical 2.10-1 (universe) from Debian Sid (main)" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/60676
* Fujitsu works on another script thing for MDT to mail upon new versions of a package in the specified set.
<LaserJock> yeah, I sure wish lucus would finish that thing
<LaserJock> and get it in Universe
<Fujitsu> 22 new packages in Debian main.
<LaserJock> it's very handy for this sort of thing
<Fujitsu> It is, yes.
* ajmitch is obviously insane
<Fujitsu> And it'll be more useful once Launchpad gets a sane, filterable, text bug listing.
<LaserJock> mhm
<ajmitch> for some reason I decided to hack a patch into upstart..
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, you're silly.
<LaserJock> oh no
<ajmitch> I agree
<LaserJock> that is rather insane
<Fujitsu> Filtering by Debian/Ubuntu component would also be useful... Hm..
<Fujitsu> How do you do unimultiverse? Manual lists of packages in both?
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: I use mutt for that :)
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: you talking to me?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, yes, oops.
<imbrandon> ajmitch: so what did you do to upstart ?
<ajmitch> imbrandon: hacking in an selinux patch :)
<imbrandon> ahh ;)
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: if you promise not to laugh I'll post you my script ;-)
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, please do.
* Fujitsu stifles giggle.
* Hobbsee prepares to laugh anyway
<LaserJock> :(
<LaserJock> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/24751
<ajmitch> they're so cruel
<Fujitsu> Hm, 20 new packages to attack.
<LaserJock> although I'm not worrying about getting just universe anymore
<Fujitsu> I'd already filed a request for one of them after a bug was filed from a user about it.
<imbrandon> ok wait a sec
<LaserJock> I figured we might as well at least keep track of the few Main science packages
<imbrandon> can someone explain why bug 62243 was requested and says no changes etc etc etc but then it was just uploaded by someone else with gobs of changes ( via the edgy-changes ml ) ?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62243 in boost "please sync boost 1.33.1-7 from Debian unstable (main)" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62243
<Fujitsu> Yes, I suppose so. How many are there?
<LaserJock> probably less then 20 totall
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, there's an extra patch which fixes a crasher that crimsun just uploaded.
<LaserJock> some tex
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, that's rather pathetic... :(
<LaserJock> calutators
<LaserJock> nothing that exciting
* Fujitsu loves TeX.
<LaserJock> I love tex too, I just hate tex packages
<imbrandon> ah ok so that bug needs rejected
<minghua> imbrandon: and it seems the patch is mentioned in that bug report
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: there is no Ubuntu TeX maintainer :/
<Fujitsu> :(
<LaserJock> even though it's in main
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: ask crimsun
<Fujitsu> That's not good.
<ajmitch> Fujitsu can be that person!
<Fujitsu> I'm not a core-dev :P
<ajmitch> so?
<Hobbsee> doesnt matter
* Hobbsee is the maintainer of kopete, effectively
<minghua> Fujitsu: sounds a good path to become one! :-)
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, stop lying. You're the maintainer of /everything KDE/.
<Fujitsu> minghua, maybe...
<Hobbsee> hah, nope
<LaserJock> I tried to do a little as ubuntu-science got "yelled" at by Debian
<imbrandon> hehe
<Fujitsu> OK.
<LaserJock> but the packaging is pretty intense
<imbrandon> yea Hobbsee , fix KDE kthxbye
<imbrandon> ;)
<Hobbsee> :P
<Fujitsu> How woefully out of date is our tetex-* at this time?
<LaserJock> -common is 0.25 in edgy and 0.29 in sid
<minghua> maybe a better question is how out of date are our texlive-*?
<LaserJock> -base and -extra are within a few debian revisions
<Fujitsu> Yes, I just ended up looking...
<minghua> LaserJock: tex-common or tetex-common (I don't remember the latter exists)
<Fujitsu> Identical, minghua...
<minghua> LaserJock: ?
<LaserJock> texlive is up to date
<Fujitsu> Yes, just tex-common.
<minghua> weird
<LaserJock> tex-common is common ;-)
<minghua> new texlive-* should depend on a quite new tex-common
<Fujitsu> Now, to get tex-common and tetex-* up to date.
<minghua> let me check now
<Fujitsu> Ah fsck. They're going to be huge, aren't they?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> and complicated
<Fujitsu> Noted.
<minghua> oh, texlive-common only depends on tex-common (>=0.12)
<minghua> well, tetex is dead upstream anyway
* Fujitsu attacks the smaller new packages.
<LaserJock> tetex-* and tex-common are Main packages
<Fujitsu> Ah, true.
<minghua> and texlive-* are in universe, I suppose?
<LaserJock> so -common would require a UVF exception I believe
<LaserJock> minghua: yep
<Fujitsu> Yes, it would.
<LaserJock> however
<LaserJock> mainly what Debian was griping about was our bug fix/security response
<LaserJock> or lack therof
<Fujitsu> OK.
<LaserJock> we had a Debian RC bug in Dapper for >3 months I believe
<minghua> LaserJock: then it means the stable releases?
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> mainly the time between UVF and release
<LaserJock> they wonder why we had packages from Jan. in Dapper
<minghua> I see
<LaserJock> when security fixes were done a couple weeks after
<imbrandon> ok i'm falling asleep at the keyboard, gnight all
<minghua> do we have any TeX experts around?
<LaserJock> and the bug report sat on LP for 3 months
<minghua> night, imbrandon
<LaserJock> minghua: not packaging wise
<LaserJock> I asked mdz about it
<LaserJock> and he more or less said I could do it :/
<minghua> too sad, maybe I should try to pick that up for edgy+1
* minghua has always been interested in TeX
<LaserJock> pitti does security fixes when he can
<LaserJock> and they get merged once a release
<minghua> and since I'm not going to touch much scim in Ubuntu anyway
<imbrandon> someone could teach me how to use it for my book ;)
<minghua> TeX maybe a good place to look at
<imbrandon> hehe
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, TeX is /great/!
<Fujitsu> And not too hard to use.
<LaserJock> haha
<minghua> imbrandon: so what are you using now?
<imbrandon> neooffice on osx ;)
<minghua> Fujitsu: TeX is hard!  (LaTeX is probably more sane)
<LaserJock> I once made a 4ftx4ft poster in latex
<Fujitsu> Well, I meant LaTeX is sane.
<Fujitsu> Nobody in their right mind uses TeX raw.
<LaserJock> it took forever,but man it was beautiful
<imbrandon> LaserJock: hehe
<minghua> maybe except Dr. Knuth?
<Fujitsu> minghua, maybe.
<LaserJock> my advisor uses latex for everything
<imbrandon> well when i get closer to being finished with it i'll poke Fujitsu or LaserJock to LaTeX it ;)
* Fujitsu runs.
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> its only about 130 pages ;)
<imbrandon> well ~130 neooffice pages, who knows properly layed out
<minghua> my advisor uses MS Office for everything :-(
<LaserJock> uggggg
<minghua> well, plus EndNote
<imbrandon> ok really gnight, c-yall
<LaserJock> my advisor, until this year, only used fvwm, emacs, acroread, and firefox
<Fujitsu> 'night.
<LaserJock> cya imbrandon
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, what does he use now?
<LaserJock> OS X
<LaserJock> with emacs, acrobat, and firefox ;-)
<Fujitsu> Haha.
<LaserJock> he used to even run fvwm on it
<LaserJock> as he couldn't figure out how to use OS X itself
<LaserJock> but he's gotten the hang of it now
<LaserJock> stupid FC1 is what turned him to Apple
<LaserJock> he had been a *nix user all his life
<LaserJock> hard core Linux fanatic
<Fujitsu> :(
<ajmitch> but everyone knows that fedora is so great
<LaserJock> would debate students in our instrumental analysis class about the evils of MS
<LaserJock> and now it's all about the joy of Apple and OS X
<Fujitsu> Fsck, that's bad.
<ajmitch> the shiny has appeal
<LaserJock> he couldn't care less about shiny though
<Fujitsu> Just like this lag...
<minghua> OS X _is_ good
<imbrandon> the stable shiney has appeal
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, you're meant to be in bed!
* imbrandon ducks
<minghua> it's simple to use, so a good choice for scientists, I wold say
<LaserJock> yeah
<minghua> s/wold/would/
<LaserJock> he bought the whole lab iMacs to replace our linux boxes
<ajmitch> it's enough like unix to satisfy many
* minghua 's iBook is broken :-(
<LaserJock> didn't want us to "waste our time" messing around with Linux
<LaserJock> little did he know he created a raging Ubuntu-holic MOTU ;-)
<imbrandon> ;)
<ajmitch> who spends all his waking hours putting the rest of us to shame
<LaserJock> bah
<ajmitch> international superstar LaserJock!
<LaserJock> no such thing
<LaserJock> I try to do what I can, just  like everybody else
<LaserJock> unfortunately I'm not nearly as good as most of you guys when it comes to packaging
<ajmitch> unlike me :)
<ajmitch> so no, not 'everyone'
<LaserJock> I'm working on it though
<minghua> no, no, some MOTUs just try harder
<minghua> (unlike me)
<LaserJock> shesh, I'd swear bddebian was somewhere around here
<ajmitch> no, I said that I don't do work
<ajmitch> not that I can't :)
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> so bddebian is stupid
<LaserJock> and ajmitch is lazy
<LaserJock> got it ;-)
<ajmitch> yep
<LaserJock> and LaserJock is inefficient
<LaserJock> man, we are a bunch of messed up MOTUs :-)
* imbrandon wonder where he fits in the motley motu's 
<ajmitch> imbrandon: you're no mere motu
<imbrandon> oh yea
<Fujitsu> Silly imbrandon.
* imbrandon headdesks
<Fujitsu> I'm no MOTU either, so I'm allowed to do work :P
<imbrandon> but but but .....
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: haha
<LaserJock> ok guys
<LaserJock> I've *got* to get to bed
<imbrandon> yea me too its like 3am
<ajmitch> night LaserJock
<imbrandon> REALLY gnight
<LaserJock> my eyes have been  killing me for 2 weeks almost
<Fujitsu> Bye, LaserJock.
<Fujitsu> Bye imbrandon.
<LaserJock> too much stupid irc
<Fujitsu> Get some sleep, LaserJock :(
* ajmitch agrees
* ajmitch gets back to doing pointless dev tasks
<ajmitch> imbrandon:
<ajmitch> 19:41 < phxheat> is kde4 going to be in the final release of edgy?
<ajmitch> ;)
<Fujitsu> ...
<imbrandon> ajmitch: the development libs will be , but kde4 wont be released in time for even edgy+1
<ajmitch> I know, I thought it was funny though
<imbrandon> but everything needed to build kde4 ( and even the current binarys of kdebase and kdelibs ) are in universe
<imbrandon> ahhh okies
<imbrandon> hehe
* imbrandon is tired and dident catch it at first
<imbrandon> heh
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, not even Edgy+1? I thought it was meant to be late this year...
<imbrandon> well /possibly/ edgy+1 afaik the first "rc/alpha/beta/something" is december
<imbrandon> ( not counting the svn snapshots of "krash" right now ( 3.80.1 )
<ajmitch> and 4.0 will probably be dripping & bloody anyway ;)
<zakame> dholbach: ping
<xerxas> Hi guys !
<zakame> yo xerxas
<dholbach> zakame: just about to leave for a run
<zakame> dholbach: oh, just to say thanks for the greeting :D
<dholbach> zakame: hehe, anytime ;-)
<zakame> dholbach: :)
* dholbach runs - see you
<zakame> dholbach: just wondering, are you related to baron holbach?  as I read somewhere you lived ina castle :P
<zakame> oh, ok, save that for later then :D
<dholbach> zakame: ahahaha - not really ;-)
<dholbach> zakame: I know that in the 1700es the Holbachs lived in France, but that's all I know, sorry :)
<zakame> ah
<zakame> well I ran across that guy in my classes on Philo, hehe
<azeem> Laser_away: well, I planned to merge them myself at some point, but didn't get around yet :-/
<azeem> gchempaint should be there RSN, then I'll take a look, what was the deadline?
<crimsun> thursday (9/28)
<azeem> thanks
<Fujitsu> It's going to be really really useful maybe being a MOTU as of Wednesday, isn't it? :P
<crimsun> by Wednesday we need to shift from new->critical bugfixes
<Fujitsu> True.
<Fujitsu> Thanks crimsun :)
* ajmitch sighs
<ajmitch> too much that I need to get done
* dredg does the dance of manager approval to go to mountain view
<ajmitch> lucky for some
<dredg> we are hosting the summit ;)
<ajmitch> hm
* minghua wish he could go
* ajmitch also
<minghua> it is finally in US
<crimsun> I couldn't score time to go, either
<ajmitch> oh I've got time
<dredg> worst location ever though :)
* minghua wonders when the developer's summit will go to asia
<ajmitch> I just don't have $$
<ajmitch> dredg: any idea where people are going to be able to stay?
<dredg> ajmitch: not a clue
* Fujitsu makes a note to get another MOTU to approve all those syncs.
<dredg> Mountain View is hardly the centre of activity - you pretty much need a car to get around anywhere
<dredg> thoguh there is a caltrain to SF
<ajmitch> that's what I fear
<ajmitch> other summits have been good, being in the hotel
<ajmitch> less time wastage getting around
<dredg> it's about 3 miles from castro to the campus
<ajmitch> a bit far to walk :)
<dredg> i've walked it. like fun, but subtly different.
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> I'm sure that something would be sorted
* ajmitch will just have to wait another week for sponsorship info
<dredg> depends where people are staying. i'll either be staying in an apartment in mountain view or in a hotel in SF
<ajmitch> hi spacey
<ajmitch> dredg: coming from .ie?
<spacey> hi there
<Fujitsu> Can <insert MOTU other than crimsun> please second crimsun's approval on Bugs 62261->62273, excluding 62264, 62267 and 62270?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62261 in Ubuntu "Please sync amap-align 2.0-1 from Debian Sid (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62261
<spacey> how is it hanging?
<dredg> ajmitch: yeah
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: why is it required, when they're in debian already?
<crimsun> Fujitsu: you don't need two acks
<Fujitsu> Oh.
<crimsun> (that's why I've already subbed u-a)
<Fujitsu> Just for packages outside Debian?
<Fujitsu> OK.
<Fujitsu> Oops.
<ajmitch> I *only* heard of this 2-ACK requirement for syncs this morning
<ajmitch> crimsun: when was it announced?
<Fujitsu> Why'd I have to get LaserJock's as well for treeviewx, then?
<crimsun> ajmitch: it wasn't; it's only for REVU (new and not in Debian)
<Fujitsu> Dinner now.
<Fujitsu> OK.
<crimsun> Fujitsu: sorry, I misinformed you.
<ajmitch> crimsun: right, and why should there be two ACKs needed on syncs in that case?
<dredg> ajmitch: there are hotels in MV itself but it really is a pain in the ass to get to google
<ajmitch> I'd assume that I'd be able to request new packages into edgy still by myself
<crimsun> ajmitch: there doesn't need to be two for syncs from Debian. I was wrongly aligning the policy with REVU's.
<dredg> if I'm staying in MV I'll have a car. If not, I'll be getting a shuttle from SF
<ajmitch> crimsun: good, so it sounds like business as usual then :)
<crimsun> ajmitch: yep
* minghua reminds himself to write the wiki page about sync procedures...
<dredg> but as a rule, public transport around mountain view is non-existant
<dredg> it's 45min walk or so to the nearest fry's
<ajmitch> attendees will get fit..
<dredg> cars for some, tiny american flags for everyone else! ;)
<seaLne> has anyone packaged any ruby stuff? i'm having problems trying to get it in /usr rather than /usr/local
<crimsun> what build system does it use?
<seaLne> autotools
<seaLne> i think i have found the problem
<Fujitsu> Back.
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: fixed the universe yet?
<Fujitsu> Oh yes, it's all fixed. Not a single bug or old version remaining.
<Fujitsu> I'm using my uber-leet nothing-powers.
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: good to hear
<iapx8088> hi alle
<seaLne> DESTDIR with make install install is a built in thing?
<iapx8088> mhmmh
<iapx8088> I have a little OT
<iapx8088> for a package I want to push in REVU
<iapx8088> It's an automake question
<iapx8088> I have four dirs
<iapx8088> mmh maybe I sorted that one
* ajmitch is bring driven mad
<iapx8088> mmhmh
<xerxas> can I suppres a bzr branch ?
<xerxas> suppress
<ajmitch> what do you mean by that?
<xerxas> https://launchpad.net/people/telepathy/+branch/pymsn/ubuntu
<xerxas> precisely: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~telepathy/pymsn/ubuntu
<xerxas> the code in this branch is for package telepathy-butterfly and not for pymsn
<xerxas> I maybe spletted something ...
<xerxas> I'm restarting to package pymsn from scratch
<ajmitch> you'd have to ask #launchpad
<ajmitch> I don't know if you can delete a branch at all
<xerxas> ajmitch,  ok , thanks
<xerxas> I don't need a "Provides" field in control , right ?
<ajmitch> not unless you're providing a virtual package
<xerxas> ajmitch,  a virtual package is let's say "webserver" ?
<xerxas> then I can do apt-get install webserver
<xerxas> and this installs apache2 ? (just as an example)
<xerxas> dholbach,  ?
<ajmitch> httpd, rather than webserver, but yes
<iapx8088> hi all
<xerxas> ajmitch,  cool
<iapx8088> I have an issue with my package
<iapx8088> at the final step, some .a libs complain about function in other .a libs
<Hobbsee> hey all
<iapx8088> but I have put a LIBADD in those makefiles
<zul> hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> :)
<ajmitch> Hobbsee!
<Hobbsee> ajmitch!
<Mithrandir> hi Hobbsee
* Mithrandir runs off before he's poked
<Mithrandir> (or stomped or similar)
<crimsun> what the heck is Joel Bryan Juliano smoking? [https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2006-September/095156.html] 
* Hobbsee bashes Mithrandir over the head with a saucepan
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: careful, he's the one approving any updates to main
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: right....good point that, i do have an upload i need to make.
<Hobbsee> need to fix it first though
<Hobbsee> crimsun: something very strange
<ajmitch> crimsun: I want some!
<jsgotangco> crimsun: he's always something really crackful
<jsgotangco> smoking that his
<ajmitch> he considers that a branding move? wow
<jsgotangco> he's ok in person, if a bit too quiet but i dunno what he's smoking when he makes posts
<iapx8088> mmh
<tseng> With these things, I'm wondering, is this really open source...
<tseng> clearly not
<iapx8088> how it was an unified patch between dirs
<iapx8088> diff -urN?
<tseng> yes
<iapx8088> thanks
* ajmitch goes off to sleep
<tseng> wow -users is awful
<zul> tseng: how so?
<tseng> eh
<zul>  tseng> wow -users is awful
<tseng> yes, it is
<Hobbsee> it must be worse than kubuntu-users then
<tseng> but I guess it is not for me
<tseng> and I will happily ignore it
<seaLne> anyone have time to look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3243
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sharms> howdy
<bddebian> Heya sharms
<sharms> bddebian: finally became an official member, thanks for the vote of confidence way back
<bddebian> sharms: Great, welcome!
<Toadstool> heya everybody
<bddebian> Heya Toadstool
<Toadstool> hi bddebian
<phanatic> good afternoon
<bddebian> Heya phanatic
<phanatic> heya bddebian
<jblack> ogra: Ping. :)
<ogra> jblack, pongedipong
<ogra> hikenboot, how are you ?
<ogra> oops
<jblack> Hey buddy! What's shaking?
<ogra> lots of work ;)
<jblack> I bet. :)
<ogra> just came back from detroit ...
<jblack> What were you doing there?
<ogra> ltsp hackfest
<jblack> The company went to _detroit_? Or just you?
<ogra> http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/Ltsp5
<ogra> only me for some days
<ogra> but i must admit i like your country :)
<jblack> Don't hold detroit against the US. Its one of our dirtiest cities.
<ogra> even though i dont like homeland security :)
<jblack> come out here to pennsylvania some time. I'll take care of you.
<jsgotangco> you liked the USA?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> was my first time ...
* lupine_85 hides from teh USAborg
<ogra> jsgotangco, the country is nice ... most people i met were as well ...
<jsgotangco> well yeah
<jblack> ogra: Come out here to pennsylvania. We'll chain smoke on the porch all day.
<ogra> (i'm not talking about politics ;) )
<jsgotangco> be in the right place at the right time and you'll definitely enjoy it
<ogra> jblack, yay ... we'll be in mountainview in november ...
<ogra> and i'll probably go to maine before
<jblack> Yeah. I have some idea of what you went through. With all the travel I did, I got on to the "not-so-random" random list. Pain in the rear.
<ogra> yeah
<jsgotangco> haha
<jblack> Maine? I might be able to swing a trip up there for a couple days to say hi.
<ogra> if i go (undecided yet) i'll be there from nov 1st to 4th
<jblack> Its probably an 8 hour trip each way, but I miss seeing you.
<ogra> dunno exactly which city yet
<jblack> You know its cold in main in november, right?
<jblack> maine, I mean.
<ogra> like in germany i suppose
<tseng> jblack: he wants a big thanksgiving turkey
<jblack> I'll look over my finances when its closer, and I'll come up to say hi if I can swing it. Ok?
<ogra> well, thanksgiving is over in nov, isnt it ?
<tseng> ogra: that was in Canada
<ogra> sure, i'll mail you with details :)
<jblack> Its on the other side of Nov. Thats when we celebrate slaughting idigenous people by eating over fed birds.
<tseng> ogra: the real thanksgiving is in November
<ogra> oh
<jblack> *slaughtering.
* ogra is so ignorant against US culture :)
<tseng> ogra: Canada is like the Bizzaro US
<jblack> Don't worry. I'm ignorant against US culture too.
<jblack> Yeah. Please mail me.
<jblack> So, anyways, I was wondering if you could kick the mythtv guys for me?
<ogra> if i knew who that is :)
* tseng points at imbrandon 
<jblack> I don't know either. Its a team email address.
<ogra> since mdz gave up maintainig it i'm not sure who cares
<jblack> Its neither fish now fowl right now. The core is 0.20 and all the fun stuff is still at 0.18. Probably stuck in download or build.
<ogra> and since tseng is the rather active -motu guy i suppose he's right pointing to imbrandon
<tseng> haha rather active
<ogra> well, there are still 3 days for upgrading it
<slomo_> a sync from debian/multimedia was requested
<slomo_> but nobody wants to sync from there
<jblack> Nah. Its not in Debian.
<slomo_> so someone feel free to do a fakesync now
<tseng> jblack: thats not what he said
<jblack> mdz moved the packages from debian to ubuntu.
<slomo_> jblack: no not in debian... but debian/multimedia
<jblack> The section listed here is multiverse/graphics
<slomo_> www.debian-multimedia.org
<jblack> bleh.
<jblack> I did an in place upgrade from Debian to edgy just to get mythtv on the box when I couldn't find marillat. :)
<jblack> btw, in place upgrades are not fun.
<ogra> rebuilds are more proper ;)
<tseng> from  unstable to edgy is a weird upgrade path indeed
<jblack> Yeah. A reinstall would have been more sane. The filesystem has a certain nostalgia for me though.
<jblack> That filesystm has been with me through thick and thin for about a decade. I couldn't just kill it off.
<jblack> tseng Its somthing to not advise unless the person considering it has a very solid understanding of both debian and ubuntu, and has the time to do it.
<tseng> jblack: sounds about right
<tseng> jblack: luckily you qualify
<bluefoxicy> how do I tell cdbs not to run ./configure
<xerxas> bluefoxicy:  what are you trying to package ?
<xerxas> how does it build ?
<bluefoxicy> xerxas: http://north.one.pl/~kazik/pub/LZOlayer/
<xerxas> bluefoxicy: how does it build ?
<bluefoxicy> you type make
<Gloubiboulga> use the makefile.mk class the
<Gloubiboulga> n
<bluefoxicy> got it.
<bluefoxicy> section:Utilities?
<Gloubiboulga> 'utils'
<bluefoxicy> dpkg-source: error: source package name `LZOlayer-fs' contains illegal character `L'
<Gloubiboulga> you can't use capital letters in a source package name
* bluefoxicy messes with some stuff.
<bluefoxicy> gpg agent is terminally broken in seahorse
<bluefoxicy> and fuckin' dpkg-buildpackage is asking me for a passphares
<bluefoxicy> which I give it
<bluefoxicy> and it says "oh well I can't connect to seahorse anyway so I don't trust you still" and fails to sign
<tseng> bluefoxicy: settle down please
<bluefoxicy> I have to e-mail this guy.
<bluefoxicy>     Copyrights reserved, blah blah
<bluefoxicy>     Use it at your OWN RISK
<bluefoxicy>     Absolutely NO WARANTY
<bluefoxicy> ^^^ That's his copyright statement... I don't think it fits in with the guidelines
<joejaxx> anyone here know about generating isos from seeds?
<joejaxx> probably not since this is the repository maintainers channel :)
<ajmitch> morning
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<LaserJock> hi guys
<zul> hey LaserJock and ajmitch
<givre> Hi guys, i have a problem uploading a package :Uploading via ftp ntfs-3g_20070920-BETA-1ubuntu1.dsc: Error '553 Could not create file.' during ftp transfer of ntfs-3g_20070920-BETA-1ubuntu1.dsc
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<givre> What can i do ?
<ajmitch> givre: I'll clear the queue
<robitaille> q/quit
<givre> ajmitch: thanks
<ajmitch> givre: make sure you upload a source-only package
<ajmitch> (debuild -S -sa)
<givre> yeah, i forgot that in a first attempt, that's why i wanted to cancel it
<ajmitch> try again now, it should work
<givre> That works. Thanks
<imbrandon> moins
<LaserJock> imbrandon: isn't it like 3 or 4 pm there?
<tseng> LaserJock: moins has nothing to do with time of day
<imbrandon> LaserJock: yea but i slept late, rember i dident goto bed till after 4am ;)
<ajmitch> crazy people
<imbrandon> heya ajmitch
<imbrandon> looks like all the mailing lists are picking back up some steam, after a weekend of nothing
<LaserJock> sometimes binary NEW is just a bummer
<ajmitch> LaserJock: so is source-in-NEW :)
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> but I get all excited when my source package makes it past source NEW and builds
<ajmitch> heh
<LaserJock> and then it sits in NEW again
<LaserJock> :/
<ajmitch> I would have thought they'd approve source+binary
<LaserJock> apparently not
<ajmitch> ah well
* ajmitch is happy that keybuk gave some useful tips on the selinux+upstart problem
<ajmitch> now I'll just need to cut up some code & test it
<LaserJock> it's been there since the 22nd
<LaserJock> and ouch, there are 92 packages in the NEW queue
<LaserJock> wow, mutt has increased my ML posting considerably
<LaserJock> I've written 2 emails today already ;-)
<LaserJock> hiya Q-FUNK
<Q-FUNK> howdy
<ajmitch> hello Q-FUNK
* Yagisan waves hello
<LaserJock> hi Yagisan
<Yagisan> man - I feel odd. I'm up at the right time for my timezone
<LaserJock> :-)
<LaserJock> I was going to say
<ajmitch> morning Yagisan
<Yagisan> I suppose I should have breakfast of something
<Yagisan> G'day ajmitch
<Yagisan> ajmitch, I taught my pbuilder how to use distcc yester :)
<Yagisan> s/yester/yesterday
<ajmitch> that's a recipe for disaster
<Fujitsu> Hey ajmitch.
<ajmitch> hi
<Yagisan> ajmitch, edgy pbuilder and edgy systems.
<Yagisan> was fun anyway
<Fujitsu> So, what are out almighty MOTUs doing today (other than going crazy because there's only two days left)?
<Q-FUNK> good evening y'all
<Q-FUNK> erm... going crazy because there's only 2 days left, mostly
<Q-FUNK> ;)
<Q-FUNK> brb
<lupine_85> My package hasn't been accepted yet :'(
<ajmitch> lupine_85: which package, and where?
<lupine_85> rutilt, on REVU
<lupine_85> it had a few silly errors but I think it's all OK now
<ajmitch> you mean that it hasn't been reviewed & advocated?
<lupine_85> erm, I think so :)
<ajmitch> ok..
* ajmitch thought you meant that the upload had failed
<lupine_85> ah, sorry
<lupine_85> had plenty of hassle getting it up there, but it is there now
<Fujitsu> What do we do with universe security vulnerabilities (tor, in this case) that affect hoary, breezy, dapper, and current edgy (but edgy will be fixed when my sync is requested).
<Fujitsu> *?
<LaserJock> imbrandon: "Fierce Falcon" you gotta be kidding me ;-)
<lupine_85> I'm assuming that if it doesn't get in before the freeze, it won't get in at all until edgy+1.. is that right?
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: you prepare & submit debdiffs to the security team
<Fujitsu> Fierce Falcon is /boooring/.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: package up a fix and get it off to pitti
<imbrandon> LaserJock: its was really justa  joke
<LaserJock> ajmitch said it better, as usual
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityUpdateProcedures
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I'm just kidding ya. I think I like falcon better than fierce
<ajmitch> getting the changelog & versioning right is important
<imbrandon> ;)
<Fujitsu> Hm. I thought that was for main only...
* Fujitsu looks.
<lupine_85> Free Falcon? ;)
<Fujitsu> Bug #58605, security advisory at http://archives.seul.org/or/announce/Aug-2006/msg00001.html... It doesn't meet the guidelines on SecurityUpdateProcedures, I don't think.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 58605 in tor "Upstream reports security flaw: clients will relay traffic" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/58605
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: it doesn't matter, the only difference between Universe and Main for security is MOTUs have to do the work ;-)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: s/MOTUs/usually crimsun/
<Fujitsu> OK, but it says the only updates will be for permission circumvention or data loss...
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: package it up and ask pitti about it
<Fujitsu> OK.
<LaserJock> if he doesn't want it then he'll reject it
<LaserJock> no biggy really
<ajmitch> he's less likely to reject something where someone has put in the work
<Yagisan> ah - speaking of packages, after the freeze when you guys are less busy, I'd like to some packaging help with something that's probably edgy + 1.
<Yagisan> Fujitsu, debdiff your patch, and send it too the list. pitti crimsum and some others (like me, and probally ajmitch) will eyeball it and you'll get a go/no go for it
<Fujitsu> They've got 0.1.0.18, which is fixed... The others all have older versions of 0.1.0.x, shall I locate the specific fix and attempt to backport it?
<Yagisan> that is more work for you, but more likely to be accepted
<Fujitsu> I realise that, yes, that's why I asked.
<Fujitsu> Brb.
<LaserJock> grrr, why does edgy eat my /etc/resolv.conf?
<LaserJock> and my gateway
<LaserJock> that's not fun
<LaserJock> anybody got a clue? :/
<lupine_85> dapper did that too
<lupine_85> to do with dhclient, IIRC
<LaserJock> dhclient?
* lupine_85 sets dns-nameserver in his /etc/network/interfaces
<lupine_85> DHCP
<LaserJock> I don't use DHCP
<lupine_85> hmm, strange then#
<LaserJock> I fixed this once
<lupine_85> maybe #ubuntu+1 ?
<LaserJock> but every time I reboot it resets my network
<lupine_85> are the settings in /etc/network/interfaces ?
<LaserJock> yeah
<lupine_85> hmm
* lupine_85 would set up something in rc.local , but he's lazy
<lupine_85> is it possible that something Xy is overriding them?
<lupine_85> network-manager (spit) etc?
<LaserJock> I don't have network-manager
#ubuntu-motu 2006-09-26
<LaserJock> what happens if I delete /etc/network/interfaces? will the network GUI recreate it for me?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: should do, I think
<LaserJock> nice, that didn't work either
<azeem> what is the best practise format for mentioning closed bugs in changelogs? * Foo. (Closes Malone #123)?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 123 in rosetta "There's no direct way to see the project info when translating it" [Medium,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/123
<azeem> Ubugtu: thx
<ajmitch> LaserJock: so what's the issue?
<LaserJock> ah well
<LaserJock> no dns or gateway
<LaserJock> grr
<zul> hola
<LaserJock> ok, so the GUI network configuration is totally screwed up for me
<imbrandon> heya zul
<LaserJock> I can get eth0 up
<imbrandon> LaserJock: ouch
<LaserJock> but I don't know how to add dns servers from CLI
<Lathiat>  /etc/resolv.conf
<zul> you edit /etc/resolv.conf
<imbrandon> LaserJock: one per line in resolve.conf
<LaserJock> yeah, but ....
<LaserJock> things are really weirded out there
<LaserJock> resolv.conf seems to get overwritten on reboot
* Fujitsu slays Tor-people.
<Lathiat> lathiat@chiana:~$ cat /etc/resolv.conf
<Lathiat> search lathiat.net
<Lathiat> nameserver 203.59.132.30
<Fujitsu> They don't actually mention the 0.1.0.18 changes in 0.1.0.18...
<Lathiat> LaserJock: is resolvconf installed (the package)
<imbrandon> means something is your interfaces is set to dhcp probably
<Lathiat> or that
<Lathiat> or do you use pppoe?
<LaserJock> Lathiat: yep
<LaserJock> no ppoe
<LaserJock> I'm on a school network with static ips
<Lathiat> resolvconf can fiddle with your file depending on things
<Lathiat> check /etc/network/interfaces
<Lathiat> for some dns-* lines
<LaserJock> done that
<LaserJock> I have dns- lines
<LaserJock> but it doesn't help
<imbrandon> iface eth0 inet static <-- correct ?
<LaserJock> yep
<Lathiat> what are they beign changed to?
<imbrandon> hrm and no other interfactes have dhcp enabled ?
<LaserJock> no
<imbrandon> hrm , yea whats it being changed to ?
<LaserJock> Lathiat: nothing is being changed I don't think
<Lathiat> well whats 'going wrong' ?
<LaserJock> no DNS
<LaserJock> I think my gateway might be ook
<Lathiat> as in dns 'doesnt work'
<LaserJock> but maybe not
<LaserJock> right
<Lathiat> whats in /etc/resolv.conf
<Lathiat> when its not working
<Lathiat> and what do you have to do to fix it
<Lathiat> ?
<LaserJock> well, there is no /etc/resolv.conf exactly
<LaserJock> it's a sym link
<Lathiat> yeh thats the resolvconf stuff
<Lathiat> try purge the resolvconf package
<LaserJock> to /etc/resolvconf/run/resolv.conf
<Lathiat> and see if that helps
<Lathiat> resolvconf always drives me nuts
<Lathiat> that measn yoru dns-* lines in e/tc/network/interfaces wont work but you can set it manually
<LaserJock> can I run without resolveconf?
<Lathiat> yeh
<Lathiat> just set the file manually after you purge it
<Lathiat> its just a convenience thign
<Lathiat> if it scausing problems remove it and see if it helps
<LaserJock> >:(
<LaserJock> it is?!!
<LaserJock> I had a perfectly fine running system
<LaserJock> I've had that resolve.conf forever
* LaserJock counts to 10 ;-)
<Lathiat> heh
<imbrandon> whop looks like netwrking got reset
* ajmitch waves farewell to laserjock
<Lathiat> heh woops
<Lathiat> wow php4 security isa mess
<Lathiat> no wonder its in universe
<Fujitsu> Hahah.
<Lathiat> i set out on a task of securityt updating it, i think i'm goign to be here a while ;)
<ajmitch> Lathiat: infinity will love you, I'm sure
<Fujitsu> I'm currently almost finished with a Tor security flaw in Breezy and Dapper, but Hoary is another question entirely.
<Lathiat> is that supposed to be funny or serious? I'm not sure if theres a joke in ther eim missing.. ;p
<imbrandon> php security peroid is a mess out of the box
<imbrandon> heh gl
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, horay eol is soon isnt it ?
<imbrandon> hoary*
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, a month, yes.
<Lathiat> but i run php4 on a breezy and a dapper server so i'd definitely like to fix it :)
<azeem> so if I want to have a package foo_1.2-1 from Debian NEW in edgy, should I upload foo_1.2-1ubuntu1 or foo_1.2-0ubuntu1 or what?
<imbrandon> not php5 ?
<Lathiat> nope
<Lathiat> php5 has compatability issues
<Lathiat> so on large customer focused servers its a no go
<Lathiat> main one is domxml
<ajmitch> we still use php4 at work
* lupine_85 likes php5
<Fujitsu> azeem, as in not in Sid yet?
<lupine_85> OOP ++
<Fujitsu> PHP OOP --
<azeem> Fujitsu: yes
<Lathiat> hahaha
<Fujitsu> azeem, -0ubuntu1.
<imbrandon> azeem, i would say -1ubuntu1 if its in incomming etc , not sure
<azeem> I wonder what the changelog should be
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, but that's newer that -1.
<Fujitsu> azeem, see my last upload of soundconverter...
<lupine_85> well, I suppose my "OOP" app right now uses C-style functions to display the actual page text ;)
<imbrandon> azeem, but if its based of that package
<lupine_85> but it's OK
<Fujitsu> Like, I did a preemptive sync of soundconverter, and just said `Preemptive sync from Debian Sid, this is actually 0.9.1-1'
<azeem> Fujitsu: how will you manage the changelog on the next sync?
<imbrandon> exactly heh
<imbrandon> thus i say if its based on the same package -1 that WILL be in sid then it should be -1ubuntu1 IMHO
<imbrandon> wb LaserJock
<Fujitsu> azeem, by syncing the next version.
<LaserJock> phew
<LaserJock> well that was interesting
<azeem> well, I maintain it in Debian as well, so I don't care about the "must be lower than next Debian release" rule a lot in this case
<LaserJock> as soon as I fixed the other computer my main computer lost it's network
<Fujitsu> azeem, like, if it comes to Edgy+1 and Sid is still on 0.9.1-1, then I can sync 0.9.1-1.
<LaserJock> had to reboot
<Fujitsu> azeem, I maintain soundconverter in Debian as well.
<azeem> Fujitsu: heh, ok, so you'll drop the 0ubuntu1 entry?
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, yea but that makes a mess of bug reports
<Fujitsu> azeem, in the sync it will naturally be dropped.
<azeem> I keep Ubuntu changelog entries in my Debian packages, if possible
<azeem> ok, I'll think about something, not a big deal
<LaserJock> what package are you talking about?
<Lathiat> ah wb LaserJock ;p
<azeem> gnome-chemistry-utils
<Lathiat> i must head off to work now, enjoy your network settings..
<LaserJock> Lathiat: yes, stupid resolvconf
<Lathiat> ah ti was that?
<LaserJock> oh yes
<Fujitsu> azeem, ah, great! I was hoping we'd get a new one of those :D
<Lathiat> heh resolvconf always drives me nuts :)
<LaserJock> between that and gnome-system-tools not being able to handle static IPs
* LaserJock has never used DHCP
<LaserJock> I guess I'm in the minority
<lupine_85> me neither :)
<lupine_85> I CBA integrating it with my DNS server
<LaserJock> hmm, can a Desktop CD be used to dist-upgrade?
<Fujitsu> My integration works nicely...
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, no.
<LaserJock> that's what I thought
<LaserJock> that kinda stinks
<LaserJock> I've never set a server either so ...
<LaserJock> *set up
<LaserJock> my dsl router can do DHCP I guess, but I don't want it to because of some port fowarding
<lupine_85> I'm just lazy, and don't see the point of it for 4 PCs
<lupine_85> radvd is also a bit of a joke
<Fujitsu> I do DHCP with a static entries for port forwarding.
<Fujitsu> IPv6 FTW!
<lupine_85> no doubt I'd feel differently if I were dealing with 10+ PCs though :)
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: right, but I only have 2 computers so once I have a static entry for one ...
<Fujitsu> Ah, 2 computers.
<Fujitsu> That's different.
<LaserJock> here at school  though we have 100+ computers
<LaserJock> static
<LaserJock> but I guess we have wireless on top of that that is DHCP
<LaserJock> but I rarely use it
<LaserJock> but I like having it static
<LaserJock> because I can log in to my computer from home
<LaserJock> easily
<LaserJock> anywho, my network crisis is solved thanks to Lathiat
* LaserJock kicks resolvconf around  a few times
* Fujitsu kicks Hoary's woefully old Tor around a few times.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<imbrandon> heya bddebian
<bddebian> Hi imbrandon
<lupine_85> hi
<lupine_85> btw, did you get that package yet?
<bddebian> Hello lupine_85
<lupine_85> erm, "package" comment was to imbrandon :)
<bddebian> I figured that :-)
<imbrandon> lupine_85, what package ? ohhh no
<imbrandon> not yet
<lupine_85> it's on it's way, never fear :)
<imbrandon> hehe yea, honestly i had forgen about it, would have been a nice suprise when it comes ;)
<lupine_85> sorry for spoiling it ;)
<imbrandon> heheh no worries ;)
<Q-FUNK> gmbl
<keescook> anyone have time to review a crash-fix I made a debdiff for?  bug 62309
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62309 in abuse-sdl "abuse segfaults on exit" [Low,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62309
<Fujitsu> Hm.. I should have probably applied the security fix to the Breezy package before pbuilding it >_>
<Fujitsu> Which list should I send the tor security fix debdiffs to? security-review?
<tseng> yes
<crimsun> keescook: looks sane to me
<keescook> crimsun: cool.  Can you upload it?  (I don't have perms to upload.)
<crimsun> sure (though I suspect you'll have privs tomorrow :-)
<zul> oooh...freshmeat :)
* ajmitch wonders if keescook will get coredev in a day
<crimsun> I would presume so :-)
<zul> ajmitch: didnt you? :)
<ajmitch> bah
<ajmitch> took me months of bribing the right people
<keescook> I'm not sure I want coredev that quick!  ;)
* ajmitch will be back later
<crimsun> keescook: uploaded, queue's in manual accept so it may be a bit before you get the ACCEPT
<keescook> cool, thanks.
<crimsun> np
* lotusleaf raises sword "I have the power!"
* Fujitsu nervously posts to security-review.
<bddebian> So, what should be be focusing on coming up on freeze?
<lupine_85> me me me me me :D
<crimsun> bddebian: newer upstream versions that fix considerable bugs, imo
<crimsun> I think I've pretty much uploaded my last new upstream version of whatever package
<Fujitsu> I've only done the two, and they were both to eliminate gstreamer0.8.
<crimsun> I think Fujitsu and geser have the syncs/merges under wraps, and I anticipate Fujitsu getting universe privs tomorrow, so that shouldn't be a stopper
<Fujitsu> Unfortunately, I need to find somebody to sign my key in the very near future.
<bddebian> Fujitsu: Come to Philadelpia, I'll sign it ;-P
<Fujitsu> :P
<bddebian> Err Philadelphia eve
<bddebian> n
<bddebian> Oh so Fujitsu and geser did azureus? Sweet
* Fujitsu hits bddebian.
<Fujitsu> I am NOT going near that abomination.
<geser> I didn't touch azureus, didn't even look at it
<bddebian> That's it, no vote for you ;-P
<Fujitsu> geser, that's a good policy.
<crimsun> azureus is solely for deities
<bddebian> crimsun: Ah great, tell me how it goes then :-)
<Fujitsu> geser, don't look at it, you'll immediately begin to burn.
<Q-FUNK> is this #ubuntouch ?
<tseng> aha
<crimsun> hah
<tseng> nice
<Q-FUNK> ;)
<geser> I looked once on the merge report for it and stopped after a few lines in the concflicts section
<Fujitsu> geser, good, good. I'm suprised you're still alive, though.
<crimsun> Fujitsu: the standard practice for security debdiffs is to mention the CVE if available. Here it's CVE-2006-4508.
<Fujitsu> OK, oops... I'll add them and reupload the debdiffs...
<Fujitsu> I can't delete attachments, can I..
<crimsun> I don't think so, but it's not that big a deal
<crimsun> (pitti and keescook will likely only consider the most recent debdiff)
<Fujitsu> Just mention it under References?
<crimsun> yep
<zul> heh is keescook my new kernel-security master? :)
<keescook> maaaybe....
<crimsun> :)
<keescook> :)
<keescook> I'll wait until pitti says I'm a master of anything.  :P
<imbrandon> zul, is there a meta package ( or will there be ) for the latest xen domU kernel
<imbrandon> s/U//
<zul> argh!! working on it..
<imbrandon> now worries, just wondering bro ;)
<imbrandon> s/now/no
<imbrandon> ;)
<crimsun> hmm, benh posted to ubuntu-users. I think he meant ubuntu-devel or kernel-team
* ajmitch returns..
<Fujitsu> Hi ajmitch.
<ajmitch> imbrandon: don't hassle the xen master at work :)
<imbrandon> ajmitch, hehe wasent trying to ;)
<ajmitch> I don't think I've hassled him about xen yet today
<zul> good dont
<imbrandon> hehe
<ajmitch> would I do that?
<zul> umm...yes..
<ajmitch> it's more of a gentle encouragement
<imbrandon> yea ;)
<zul> is it done yet is it done yet...how about now :)
<imbrandon> ugh , all the lastfm feeds image things suck
<imbrandon> zul, is it ......... umm never mind i value my life ( and fingers )
<ajmitch> zul: I just wanted to help out :)
<zul> hehe..
<imbrandon> hrm one of my sata drives is makin funny noises, i hope it dont decide to die soonish
<imbrandon> that cant be good
<imbrandon> better check my backups are good , just in case
<imbrandon> ugh that would suck , i dont have the cash for a new hdd right now either ;(
<lotusleaf> you could always have a bake sale
<imbrandon> lol
<lotusleaf> ;)
<lotusleaf> or a lemonaide stand
<imbrandon> hahah
<ajmitch> imbrandon: yeah, I always worry at the slightest noise from my box :)
<imbrandon> this one just started acting funny the last hour or so
<lotusleaf> don't forget to use some frosting on the cookies to add the url to shipit
<ajmitch> what sort of funny?
<imbrandon> sounds like its randomly seeking
<imbrandon> not like a normal read/write
<imbrandon> but nothing is going on but irc
<ajmitch> hm
<imbrandon> ( check ps ax )
<crimsun> remapping bad sectors?
<imbrandon> checked*
<ajmitch> vmstat
<ajmitch> crimsun: that's more likely
<lotusleaf> imbrandon: doesn't hald always spin the hdd like a drunken dj?
<imbrandon> brandon@horatio:~$ vmstat
<imbrandon> procs -----------memory---------- ---swap-- -----io---- -system-- ----cpu----
<imbrandon>  r  b   swpd   free   buff  cache   si   so    bi    bo   in   cs us sy id wa
<imbrandon>  0  0  18240  29292 125296 506424    0    0     8    40   53   58  4  1 95  0
* ajmitch should get another drive & make everything RAID5
<imbrandon> no idea how to read that output
<ajmitch> imbrandon: sorry, vmstat 1
<ajmitch> it prints out a line every second
<ajmitch> watch the bi & bo columns
<lotusleaf> can a hdd ever be put to sleep like on winders or does it always spin with activity
<imbrandon> bo keeps going from 0 to ~100
<imbrandon> bi is always 0
<imbrandon> http://pastebin.ca/182458
<ajmitch> so basically very little activity
<imbrandon> well my "important" stuff is all on a raided server , but still , i dont wanna loose this drive if i can help it
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> ajmitch, yea hardly any, just my irc client and a web browser
<imbrandon> nothing running in the background
<imbrandon> hrm , i guess i'll just have to watch it close the next days and make sure i have good backups
<crimsun> if your drive is SMART-aware, then you can check its output
<crimsun> (smartmontools)
* ajmitch has had 1 drive die already this year
<imbrandon> umm afaik it is , the drive is a semi new ( last 6months ) 160gb sata
<ajmitch> far too early for a drive like that to die
<ajmitch> smartctl -d ata -a dev/sda
<imbrandon> oh wow tons of output
<imbrandon> lemme pastbin
<imbrandon> arg its doing it again, strange
<imbrandon> http://pastebin.ca/182464
<ajmitch> oh joy, a western digital
<ajmitch> the FAILING_NOW is a big sign :)
<lotusleaf> in soviet russia, western digitals you
<imbrandon> shit
<ajmitch> the drive I had die was a 160GB WB (non-SATA)
<ajmitch> s/WB/WD/
<ajmitch> I got everything off it with dd a few days before it died
<ajmitch> when it died, it made a nice noise :)
<Fujitsu> Failing early, I love it.
<crimsun> it really should have a big sad face
<imbrandon> man that just sucks , heh yea i just checked the backups , their good , but still
* imbrandon wonders if he still has the reciept for it
<Fujitsu> Hi Hobbsee.
<bddebian> Heya Hobbsee
<imbrandon> ello Hobbsee
<crimsun> bah, silly client
<crimsun> keescook: sorry, my client wasn't identified, so the last few responses didn't go through. Sec.
<Hobbsee> hey Fujitsu
<Hobbsee> hey bddebian
<Hobbsee> hey imbrandon
<lukaswayne9> Could someone take a look at my simple package upgrade?
<lukaswayne9> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3214
<LaserJock> :/
<Fujitsu> ?
<LaserJock> sorry
<LaserJock> just frustrated
<LaserJock> I don't know what my problem is
<Fujitsu> :(
<LaserJock> I must be cracking under the stress
<LaserJock> ;-)
<LaserJock> last night it was forums
<ajmitch> uh oh
<Fujitsu> So it was :P
<LaserJock> tonight it's the magical ML where nothing is on topic ;-)
<zul> forums are so much fun though :)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: just let it drift by...
<LaserJock> I know I know
* ajmitch restrains himself from commenting on the forums again
<Fujitsu> Which ML in particular?
<LaserJock> don't worry
<Hobbsee> -users, i expect
<LaserJock> hehe no
<Fujitsu> -devel?
<LaserJock> mhm
<zul> sounder?
<Fujitsu> The 686 kernel one?
<joejaxx> does anyone know what ubuntu uses to handle svg+xml mime types?
<LaserJock> mhm
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, I thought that was a bit odd. It's very very close to on topic, if not on topic.
<LaserJock> I've been on -devel for over a year now
<ajmitch> LaserJock: delete thread
<ajmitch> or mark as read
<zul> or ignore
<ajmitch> whatever avoids you having to look at it
<LaserJock> and I've just come to the realization that it is more "developer disscusion" rather then "development discussion"
<LaserJock> which makes me a little sad
<LaserJock> but I don't make the rules, thankfully ;-)
<Fujitsu> So let's change the description, and start another flamewar about changing the description without consulting the user.
* Fujitsu rolls eyes.
<lotusleaf> lol
<LaserJock> hehe
<lotusleaf> break the dishes crack the plates
<lotusleaf> that's what Bilbo Baggins Hates
* Hobbsee wants a "kill topic" button, which makes it not allowed to be discussed again
<zul> electrical shocks would be good
<LaserJock> I'd like to have a good, healthy, constructive discussion
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, that'd be nice... But not going to happen.
<LaserJock> but it seems I'm only dreaming ;-)
<joejaxx> i want to ask a question in #*-devel but i am afraid i whould meet ridicule once again
<joejaxx> was going to*
<LaserJock> joejaxx: ask it here then
<joejaxx> LaserJock: i did :)
<LaserJock> oh, good
<Fujitsu> Yeah, we're unlikely to eat you.
<Hobbsee> much
<joejaxx> i need to find out what handles svg+xml mime types
* Fujitsu hastily pushes the partial disembodied limbs out the door.
* Hobbsee spears Fujitsu with her long pointy stick of doom, roasts him over the fire, and eats him.
<joejaxx> because right now icons are not working on fluxbuntu
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: lol
<Fujitsu> Thanks, Hobbsee.
* joejaxx makes a note to watch out for the Stick of Doom
<Fujitsu> But I'll hopefully have some MOTU powers in less than 24 hours too!
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: motu powers?
<Fujitsu> joejaxx, that's one thing you need to watch out for in here.
<Hobbsee> :P
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: haha
<lotusleaf> joejaxx: she-ra +5 sponge of supple bathing
<joejaxx> lotusleaf: lol
<zul> she-ra rocks
<zul> that or jem ;)
<joejaxx> LaserJock: i accidentally broke the image handler in Fluxbuntu
<joejaxx> when removing packages
<joejaxx> because it worked in Rev1 but not Rev2
<joejaxx> which is why i need tofind out what handles the svg+xml mime type in Ubuntu :)
* zul is watching a movie
<minghua> LaserJock is indeed a conversation invoker in this channel :-)
* joejaxx goes back to idling
* ajmitch could go back to fighting FDS, but it's depressing :)
<ajmitch> hi Burgundavia
<Burgundavia> hey ajmitch
* imbrandon go's back to his self python class
<imbrandon> heya Burgundavia
<LaserJock> minghua: sortty :(
<Burgundavia> hey imbrandon
<LaserJock> sorry
<LaserJock> jeeze, tty everthing ;-)
<minghua> LaserJock: I didn't mean to blame you at all :-)
<ajmitch> FDS is made up of lots of nasty components with weird & colourful build systems
* minghua goes home
<minghua> be back soon
<imbrandon> FDS ?
<lotusleaf> most underrated bill murray movie of all time: The Razor's Edge: http://imdb.com/title/tt0087980/
<ajmitch> fedora directory server
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: including the evil one?
<imbrandon> ahh yea i could imagine, all Directory type systems are magic to me still
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: sorry?
<imbrandon> i tried to setup a simple nis server here and failed ( after only 2 hours ) , maybe some other day
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: yada
<ajmitch> no, not packaging systems
<ajmitch> build systems
<ajmitch> this isn't packaged yet
<Hobbsee> ah
<imbrandon> i supose they all dont have the same build system ?
<ajmitch> haha no
* imbrandon hugs autotools and cdbs
<imbrandon> ;)
<ajmitch> and it's old netscape source
<imbrandon> ahhhhh /that/ one
<ajmitch> with a good lump of java thrown in there as well
<imbrandon> its been through like 3 companies hands
<imbrandon> and then gpl'd
* ajmitch needs to go & buy a big bottle of whisky or something 
<imbrandon> haha
<imbrandon> tequela
<Burgundavia> FDS is sadly the best we have
<joejaxx> fds?
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: best, at least until you try & build it
<ajmitch> joejaxx: see above
<imbrandon> joejaxx, read up about 15 lines
<imbrandon> ;)
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: I am talking about features
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: I was carving the LDAP C SDK out of firefox sources last night to try & get it built
<Burgundavia> interesting
<ajmitch> fairly self-contained, except it wants to symlink everything rather than copy
<ajmitch> I should fix that quickly tonight
<ajmitch> & then I can get back to fixing up some of the other components
<joejaxx> oh ok
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: with any luck, I could have something going by edgy+1
<Burgundavia> cool
<zul> night..
<Hobbsee> night zuq
<Hobbsee> night zul
<imbrandon> night zul
<Hobbsee> q != tab
<Fujitsu> 'night, zul.
<imbrandon> yea Hobbsqq
<LaserJock> how is Ubuntu's LDAP support
<LaserJock> cya zul
<Hobbsee> e!=q either
<ajmitch> LaserJock: still crap
<imbrandon> hehehe
<ajmitch> night zul
<joejaxx> nice i think i found the problem
<joejaxx> YES!!
* joejaxx is happy and cries
<joejaxx> librsvg2.2
<joejaxx> and librsvg2-common
<joejaxx> LaserJock: that fixed the problem
<joejaxx> now i can release Fluxbuntu Revision2
<ajmitch> sigh
<joejaxx> apparently i removed those packages but they are not in the documentation of me removing them
<ajmitch> over an hour building this package, and it fails
<joejaxx> ajmitch: which one?
<LaserJock> even on your speedy machine?
<ajmitch> xen, from a git checkout
<ajmitch> so it's most likely a local issue in my checkout, probably something I touched
* ajmitch starts it again
<ajmitch> at least I have ccache :)
<joejaxx> ajmitch: i like building packages even though it takes me time to build them and i receive warnings from lintain
<joejaxx> ajmitch: :)
<joejaxx> ajmitch: i built my first nonmeta package yesterday
<LaserJock> cool
<joejaxx> LaserJock: i still need to fix some things like the fact that it tries to remove /etc/X11/fluxbox
<LaserJock> heh
<joejaxx> LaserJock: but i am getting there
<joejaxx> LaserJock: what does it take to become motu?
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> you need to work on packaging and help MOTUs and other MOTU Hopefuls
<LaserJock> and become an Ubuntu Member
<joejaxx> oh ok
<joejaxx> well i am 1/5 the way there
<joejaxx> :)
<LaserJock> and show that you can be trusted to work without supervision on the Universe repos
<LaserJock> gotta start somewhere :-)
<joejaxx> LaserJock: ah ok
<ajmitch> that rules me out
<imbrandon> me 3
<joejaxx> LaserJock: yes i have submitted my application for membership already :)
* ajmitch just isn't the raging MOTU-holic that some people are
<LaserJock> bahh
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> i think every time he gets called that we have to pitch in and buy a guiness for him ( the MOTU-aholic )
<LaserJock> no thanks
<imbrandon> like the swearing jar
<imbrandon> heheh
<ajmitch> oooh, guinness
<LaserJock> I'd take a Pepsi though
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> guinness + killians red + mt dew , are the only /good/ liquids ;)
<lotusleaf> all I wanted was a pepsi!
<imbrandon> just one pepsi ?
<lotusleaf> you.. can't.. bring.. me.. down
* imbrandon rembers limp bizkit song from the 90's
<imbrandon> ^the
<lotusleaf> suicidal tendencies
<lotusleaf> Such positive lyrics: "They stuck me in an institution Said it was the only solution To give me the needed professional help To protect me from the enemy, myself It doesn't matter I'll probably get hit by a car anyway."
<lastnode> imbrandon, ping?
<imbrandon> lastnode, pong
<lastnode> imbrandon, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Upstream/Screenshots , just fyi.
<imbrandon> cool can the last one return the url of the submition and i would rename "standard" but that lookin rockin
<lastnode> imbrandon, the options are completely configurable via a .conf file. those who deploy it can change it easily
<imbrandon> cool
<lastnode> and regarding the return of url, yes, that will happen, but we're working on a modular ouput architecture so that each pastebin plugin will return relevant data
<lastnode> i.e - some might be able to return more than just a url
<imbrandon> right
<lastnode> anyway, thanks for your time, just keeping you informed
<lastnode> ;-)
<imbrandon> cool
<lastnode> imbrandon, another gentle reminder re: ubotu/Ubugtu btw, but mainly the log bot. the mailing list on sf is being a pita (slow relay and sometimes _no_ relay), so channel logs will be sweet.
<lastnode> (no hurry, just a wee reminder, i know you must be very beeze with beta freeze et al.)
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, I presume you pasted that in -au to scare him from using Xen?
<ajmitch> nah
<ajmitch> I'd rather scare him off breaking his system with alien
<Fujitsu> True.
<Fujitsu> Alienised Xen... I wonder how nastily that would break things...
<ajmitch> badly enough
<imbrandon> hahahah omg , thats worse than alien oo.o
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, yeah.
<Fujitsu> OOo doesn't mess with your kernel :P
<imbrandon> heh oo.o isnt the kernel ( eg xen is )
<imbrandon> hum i wonder if there is enough docs for me to convert some ini scripts to upstart jobs without poking scott too much
<ajmitch> should be easy enough
<imbrandon> ajmitch, you were patching it a bit, do you know ? or have you tried it ?
<ajmitch> I was patching the C code, not the scripts
<imbrandon> right
<imbrandon> hum i might look at the docs and see if i can get a feeel for it, as i have a feeling it will be mentioned a time or two at UDS ( plus its good to konw the new woprld order hehe )
<imbrandon> world*
<ajmitch> yeah, I've got packages that have initscripts
<ajmitch> so I'd better get converting
<lotusleaf> "OpenSSL Hit by Forgery Bug" http://it.slashdot.org/it/06/09/25/222250.shtml
<imbrandon> i was just looking for a non-essential ( to my system ) one to play with
<lotusleaf> is slashdot still news?
<ajmitch> was slashdot ever news?
<imbrandon> was slashdot ever news ?
<imbrandon> hahaha
<lotusleaf> lol
<lastnode> sacrilege!
<imbrandon> the saint are stompin the falcons
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> saints*
<Fujitsu> Fierce Falcon!
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> american football ;)
<Fujitsu> Pfft, silly thing.'
<micahcowan> If I create package A that is essentially useless without package B, should B be in A's Requires or Recommends? In this case, it's a preprocessor that generates .c files that depend on libcheck; but operating the preprocessor itself doesn't technically require libcheck.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, have you requested a sync for scribus-ng that you recall ? ( searching LP now )
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, no, I haven't...
<imbrandon> kk , i'll finish the search incase someone else has
<rideout> anybody know good way to "make -j2" when doing local builds for testing without modifying the debian/rules file? a make wrapper?
<imbrandon> nope, you /can/ with a hack in the pbuilder hooks but it breaks alot of packages
<joejaxx> does anyone know who made the ubuntu usplash?
<minghua> joejaxx: there is a #ubuntu-artwork channel
<minghua> micahcowan: sounds like a recommends to me (if I understand correctly that using the package won't require libcheck, but using the _output_ of the package requires libcheck)
<LaserJock> joejaxx: I think Frank Schoep might have done it
<joejaxx> LaserJock: oh alright
<Fujitsu> minghua, I believe that Recommends is for things that aren't absolutely required, but there might be a very obscure use-case where that package isn't required.
<micahcowan> minghua, Fujitsu, thanks. That's pretty much what I suspected.
<lotusleaf> how large is the universe repo for edgy?
<rideout> What is the policy on Recommends for apt. There was some discussion the mailing list a while ago, that apt would install Recommends automaticaly. Is that not the case?
<Fujitsu> lotusleaf, about 16000 binary packages.
<imbrandon> rideout, it dosent /yet/ but will
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, iirc its over 20000 now
<lotusleaf> Fujitsu: thanks, and in MBs?
<rideout> imbrandon: in the RC stage?
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, there are 21000 binary packages in the whole distribution, so there's not 20000 in Universe.
<Fujitsu> lotusleaf, x86 binaries for universe are...
* Fujitsu checks.
<lotusleaf> Fujitsu: thx
<Fujitsu> (I've got a local mirror, but du -ch takes a while)
<Fujitsu> About 10GiB.
* lotusleaf gasp
<lotusleaf> Fujitsu: thx
<Fujitsu> Why gasp?
<ajmitch> not bad, I thought it would have been more
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: think he's become confused by xen yet?
<imbrandon> my local mirror of source+i386+ppc+amd64 == 30gb for edgy universe
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, it certainly looks like it. You're doing a great job!
<lotusleaf> imbrandon: thx not bad
<minghua> Fujitsu: only i386, or i386+all?
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, that's strange... It should more
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: I didn't mean to
<Fujitsu> minghua, oops, i386+all.
<ajmitch> but it's not a simple topic
<lotusleaf> Fujitsu: gasp b/c I had other d/l's going at the moment :)
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, you did a good job anyway, although it would have confused him anyway.
<ajmitch> :P
<minghua> Fujitsu: yes, I agree with your explanation of Recommends
<Fujitsu> I've got source mirroring at school at the moment, I'll grab it when I get there tomorrow :)
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, i got another du running to check again
<imbrandon> i thought it was about 30 gigs last i checked
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, I've realised that mine is going to be i386+all, so the other archs won't be quite as big.
<imbrandon> what do you use to mirror it ?
<Fujitsu> minghua, and Suggests is just for things which are probably useful.
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, debmirror.
<imbrandon> ahh
<minghua> Fujitsu: very true
* imbrandon hugs apt-mirror ;)
<Fujitsu> Aha.
<imbrandon> 24G     universe/
<imbrandon> 24G     total
<imbrandon> brandon@enterprise:/storage/mirror/ubuntu/mirror/us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool$
<lotusleaf> I found some cool scripts for using debmirror then generating dvd/cd isos with results
<imbrandon> thats everything but amd64
<imbrandon> ^^
<Fujitsu> lotusleaf, debpartial is very useful for that.
<lotusleaf> Fujitsu: yeah thx ;)
<imbrandon> so 24gig without amd64 about 31 with irrc
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, ^
<imbrandon> iirc*
<Fujitsu> OK.
<Fujitsu> Including source
<Fujitsu> *?
<imbrandon> yea source+i386+ppc+all
<Fujitsu> OK.
<imbrandon> thats what i have apt-mirror mirroring
<lotusleaf> the script I found included "--ignore-release-gpg" without quotes in the debmirror line, why?
* minghua is curious how much of Fujitsu's 10G is all, how much is i386
<minghua> I remember that adding a binary arch for Debian is a little bit over 10G for both testing and unstable
<Fujitsu> To work that out, I'd need to recursively list all the files, and filter out *_all.deb, then add their sizes up... Hmm.
<minghua> since universe should be smaller than Debian main, I figure 6-7G for i386 would sound right
* Fujitsu cleans up his Firefox window... it's a little messy, with 67 tabs.
<lotusleaf> the edgy daily dvd iso only contains main and restricted?
<minghua> Fujitsu: just curious, no need for you to go through the trouble
<lotusleaf> or just main?
<imbrandon> 41G     total  <--- for my whole pool
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, wow.
<minghua> Fujitsu: do you have a mirror for main too?  I figure running a du there should be easy?
<Fujitsu> minghua, I do, yes.
<imbrandon> hrm i bet i could ls -lR|grep *.deb|wc and find the packages hehehe
<Fujitsu> fujitsu@irranat:~/ubuntu-mirror/edgy/pool$ ls -lR universe/ | grep \.deb | wc -l
<Fujitsu> 14849
<Fujitsu> Main is 3.8GiB.
<Fujitsu> fujitsu@irranat:~/ubuntu-mirror/edgy/pool$ ls -lR main | grep \.deb | wc -l
<Fujitsu> 4849
<Fujitsu> That can't be right.
<minghua> don't be superstitious
<Fujitsu> That seriously cannot be right.
<imbrandon> brandon@horatio:/media/server/mirror/ubuntu/mirror/us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool$ ls -lR | grep \.deb | wc -l
<imbrandon> 34930
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, you could always use find, rather than ls -lR.
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> i was really just jokin till you did it
<imbrandon> heh
<Fujitsu> Hah.
<Fujitsu> It is OK if I get my key signed shortly after the TB meeting, isn't it?
<Fujitsu> 'cause I can't get it signed until tomorrow afternoon.
<ajmitch> maybe
<imbrandon> haha someone just left a comment on my blog about the ubuntu names , quote "firey fox, just to get at mozilla and thier damn firefox trademark."
<Fujitsu> Hah.
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, he's /still/ trying!>
<Fujitsu> *?
<ajmitch> yes
<Fujitsu> He is truly persistent (or stupid).
<ajmitch> persistent, please
<Fujitsu> Maybe..
<lotusleaf> in soviet russia, keys sign you
<Fujitsu> Or keys hopefully sign random Debian maintainers around Melbourne tomorrow.
<imbrandon> Average successful requests per day: 22,521 <-- not to bad, no idea i had that many hits
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: yes, I've been seeing your desperate attempts on the debian-melb lists ;)
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, what're you doing there?
<Fujitsu> And attempt, singular, I think.
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> well I've met up with debian people on previous trips to melbourne as well
<imbrandon> ajmitch has even helped out people in teh KC Lug ;)
<ajmitch> and I've never been to KC!
<imbrandon> i didnt say that
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> btw thats for that the other week if i dident tell you then
<imbrandon> ;)
<ajmitch> gah
<ajmitch> massive .wmv video forwarded to me in email
<imbrandon> bwhahaha
* ajmitch sighs
<rideout> testing dcop
<imbrandon> dcop works in konvo ;)
<rideout> yep
<imbrandon> cept you spit it out in all channels not just this one
<imbrandon> ;)
<rideout> I did
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, fun.
<imbrandon> look in #k-devel
<imbrandon> ;)
<rideout> at least all that i am in
<imbrandon> right
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: I'll let you continue helping him :)
* Fujitsu blocks his ears and starts saying loudly `Nanananana I'm not listening', repetitively.
<ajmitch> be nice
<Fujitsu> I don't do Xen.
<ajmitch> so?
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> I guess I didn't reply in time
<ajmitch> yay, networking going in xen again
* ajmitch fetches ubuntu-standard
<Fujitsu> Yay :)
<ajmitch> it was not playing nice with multiple interfaces, setting up bridging on the wrong one
<ajmitch> hi raphink
<raphink> hi ja
<raphink> ajmitch:
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: on the livecd the bin directory is not needed correct?
<Fujitsu> I don't know, joejaxx.
<joejaxx> all it has in it are dll's and executables
<Fujitsu> Ah, that's just the Windows stuff, so it's not needed.
<Fujitsu> I presume.
<TheMuso> Hey all.
<Fujitsu> Hi TheMuso.
<imbrandon> heya TheMuso
<joejaxx> hello
<joejaxx> imbrandon: do you know?
<TheMuso> Hey Fujitsu, imbrandon.
<TheMuso> I'd like something clarrified by the gurus in here if I may.
<imbrandon> joejaxx, no the windows stuff isnt nessessary
<joejaxx> imbrandon: so i can rm -rf bin/
<LaserJock> those are opencd files
<joejaxx> LaserJock: ah ok good another 12mb off that system
<LaserJock> you might get rid of the contents rather then the dir as a whole
<rideout> is listening to Yankee Bayonet (I Will Be Home Then) by The Decemberists [amarok] 
<TheMuso> I am working on a package update, and for various reasons I have to split out some data files from the main package, into its own package, so that both the main package, and another package can depend on them.
<Fujitsu> OK...
<TheMuso> Do I need any of the conflicts/replaces magic to make things safer? Or have I still missed the point of those two control fields? :)
<imbrandon> ko..
<minghua> TheMuso: my understanding is that's exactly what Conflicts/Replaces are designed for
<imbrandon> hrm well it depends, if you dont then the data file could be tried to be installed solo ( as a dep of the other new package ) and still have files provided by the old one
<imbrandon> TheMuso, so in short yes
<TheMuso> Ok, then it comes down to which one. :)
<TheMuso> I have data files in /usr/share that were originally part of package1 in previous versions. I now have a need to move these to their own package, so that package1 and package2 can depend on those data files.
<imbrandon> package1-data shoudl conflict with package1 < 1.0 if i'm understanding you correct
<minghua> TheMuso: pacakge2 should both Conflicts: package1 (<= old-version) and Replaces: package1 (<= old-version)
<TheMuso> But package2 does not replace anything from package1
<TheMuso> package1-data are the data files. Package1 and package2 both depend on package1-data
<Kagou> morning
<imbrandon> right only the -data would need to do this with package one since packe1 and package2 can be installed side by side
<TheMuso> imbrandon: You mean -data would need a conflicts?
<imbrandon> so with the -data nned to conflict with <= old version package1
<imbrandon> right
<TheMuso> Right.
<imbrandon> other than that you should be good
<imbrandon> that way if package2 pulls in package1-data and there is an old version of packa1 on the system it will conflict
<Mithrandir> C+R, not just C.
<minghua> TheMuso: I was wrong, s/package2/package1-data/, sorry for not reading carefully
<imbrandon> Mithrandir, well it only R part of it , so should it R also ?
<Mithrandir> package2 needs to depend on p1-data, p1 depends on p1-data, p1-data C+R on old-version of p1.
<imbrandon> exactly
<Mithrandir> imbrandon: yes.  Replaces means "may overwrite files from this other package"
<imbrandon> ok
<Mithrandir> it does not mean "obsoletes this other package"
<imbrandon> ahh ok
<minghua> Mithrandir is definitely experts on this area
<Mithrandir> it's a very common misconception. :-)
<minghua> s/experts/expert/
* minghua sighs
* Mithrandir gives minghua a bucket of coffee
<TheMuso> Ok thanks all. Much appreciated.
<minghua> thanks, but given it's 1:00 a.m. here, I'd rather go sleep than drinking coffee :-)
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> minghua, where are you , might be semi close ( same timezone heh )
<imbrandon> well possible tleaste
<imbrandon> atleaste*
<imbrandon> gah
<minghua> imbrandon: Houston
<imbrandon> ahh only a few hours away ;)
<minghua> imbrandon: you need to go to bed as well :-)
<imbrandon> minghua, heh from 8pm to 8am is my "ubuntu" time ;)
<imbrandon> i got a good 7 hours left ;)
<minghua> :-)
<imbrandon> just calls for another bucket of coffee^Wmt dew
<imbrandon> ahh finaly got lastfm tracks to show up correctly , well how __I__ wanted them to on my page
<imbrandon> ;)
<rideout> I just installed acroread in edgy, (i've been using kpdf) and I just get a loop where "expr: syntax error" is printed repeatedly
<rideout> is this a known thing, just me, should I investigate?
<imbrandon> probably investigate BUT isnt acroread binary only, e.g. not open source ?
<imbrandon> moins siretart
<minghua> rideout: interesting.  what does your "file `which acroread`" say?
<rideout> it is/usr/bin/acroread
<rideout> it is: /usr/bin/acroread
* minghua suspect it's related to input-method setting
<minghua> rideout: what does "file /usr/bin/acroread" say, then?
<rideout> i just did an strace, it seems some child process keeps dieing
<rideout>  /usr/bin/acroread is shell script
<rideout> wc -l /usr/bin/acroread : 761
<minghua> rideout: add "set -x" at beginning of /usr/bin/acroread and run acroread from a terminal?
* minghua knows Ubuntu did some hacking on acroread's startup script
<crimsun> rideout: it's a multiply duped bug
<crimsun> I can't reproduce it at all, but apparently a lot of people can
<rideout> expr: syntax error
<rideout> + base_version=
<rideout> ++ expr length
<rideout> expr: syntax error
<rideout> + len_base_version=
<rideout> + '[' -gt '] '
<rideout> ++ expr substr 0000000000 1
<rideout> is repeated ad nauseum
<rideout> crimsun: any known reason?
<rideout> <7.08 worked fine
<crimsun> bug 60928
<rideout> ahh, a bungled regex
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 60928 in acroread "Acroread 7.0.8 does not start" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/60928
<imbrandon> wow lagbugu
<LaserJock> heh
<crimsun> rideout: can you confirm that adding the asterisk at least masks the symptom?
<crimsun> It doesn't make sense for it to work on my system but fail for everyone elses'
<crimsun> else's
<rideout> yes, that worked
<crimsun> ok, I'll apply it and upload
<rideout> well, the astrix is for a library, it looks like if the version has 1 digit your fine, but if you have two it misses it
<crimsun> it should have failed on /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0.1000.3 for me, then
<minghua> crimsun: are you using bash as /bin/sh?  (assuming that script is using /bin/sh)
<rideout> i have usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0.800.17
<crimsun> no, I'm using dash, though I created a new user defaulted to bash to test
<crimsun> I'm pretty sure the sh is irrelevant here
<rideout> does it just use usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0?
<Hobbsee> boo.
<crimsun> no
<crimsun> ah, you're on Dapper?
* minghua blames the author of the original script
<minghua> crimsun: apparently so (sounds GTK+ 2.8 to me)
<rideout> I'm on edgy
<minghua> rideout: what's your libgtk2.0-0 version then?
<crimsun> that really doesn't make sense, then
<crimsun> libgtk2.0-0 should have /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0.1000.3, not /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0.800.17
<rideout> 2.10.3-0ubuntu1
<minghua> any regexp longer than 5 characters should have a comment with it
<minghua> that can't be right
<rideout> minghua agreed
<crimsun> that really can't be right
<rideout> that version is from apt-cache show libgtk2.0-0 | grep Version
<crimsun> dpkg -S /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0.800.17
<crimsun> heck, ls /usr/lib/libgtk-x11*
<rideout> usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0.1000.3
<crimsun> that's more like it
<rideout> i got the erroneus version from dpkg -L
<rideout> i did an apt-get --reinstall and now dpkg -L works
<rideout> i think my apt-get dist-upgrade from dapper might not have upgraded this package
<crimsun> this is a recent dist-upgrade from dapper
<rideout> I've been on edgy for about 3 weeks, doing another dist-upgrade every few days
<minghua> sounds somebody should check the upgrade path from dapper for beta
<minghua> if libgtk2.0-0 can be left un-upgraded things will really mess up
<crimsun> I just did. Can't reproduce it.
<minghua> crimsun: good then
<crimsun> rideout: I presume, then, that you don't have libgtk2.0-dev installed?
<rideout> i do
<crimsun> mmm
* Lathiat laughs at #ubuntu-devel
<Lathiat> need. latest. crack. now.
<rideout> i think i installed it more recently though
<crimsun> rideout: please remove it temporarily
<rideout> done
<crimsun> ok, does acroread still spin?
<rideout> no spinning but it gets stuck
<crimsun> err?
<crimsun> meaning does it still flood the above error?
<rideout> it actually continues after the error, but looking back it reports one on line 491
<crimsun> man, this script is SICK
<rideout> which is if [ $version -ge $base_version ] ; then
<rideout> the line is "if [ $version -ge $base_version ] ; then"
<minghua> Lathiat: now its "need latest crack. now. for dapper."  :-)
<crimsun> I'm just going to patch the regexp
<Lathiat> heh
<rideout> hah
<imbrandon> LOL
<rideout> this is the same reason why abobe is taking forever on flash, they ported to 9 long ago, it just making one binary that works on a dozen distros with a half dozen version that taks forever
<lotusleaf> I liked the post on the adobe linux flash blog about our lady of adobe and the blog being a virtual shrine to post petitions in hopes a miracle tear squeezes out
<crimsun> oh stabbity
<Fujitsu> crimsun, what's this?
<crimsun> have to extract the upstream tarball inside debian/rules to generate a diff
<Fujitsu> Is this one of those tarball-within-tarball packages?
<crimsun> yep
<Fujitsu> I never did like them.
<Fujitsu> crimsun, have/will you send an email to the TB?
<crimsun> I will, yes
<Fujitsu> OK, thanks.
* Fujitsu finds an alarm clock.
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> yeah, you'll need it
* Hobbsee woke up befor eher alarm when going for MOTU
* Mithrandir picks up Hobbsee's letters and shakes them about
* Hobbsee 's letters are shaken.
<Fujitsu> Knowing me, though, I'll wake up at like 3am. I always wake up really early when I know there's something on a bit early that morning.
<Hobbsee> hehe
<rideout> Fujitsu: what part of the world are you in?
<Fujitsu> Eastern Australia.
<Fujitsu> Same as Hobbsee.
<rideout> i've always wanted to get out there
<Fujitsu> 'tis good, rideout.
<Fujitsu> Innit, 'obbsee?
<Hobbsee> yep
* Hobbsee hands Fujitsu a "H"
<Fujitsu> Maybe..
* Fujitsu decides that now is the right time and disintegrates from nervosity.
* rideout puts wort in carboy
<Fujitsu> ...
* rideout likes to home homebrew his stout
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: dont be nervous
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, why not?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: @ tomorrow.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: they're not *that* big and scary
<Hobbsee> much
<Fujitsu> Much, I guess.
* rideout sigh, aussies...
<Fujitsu> Darn, no LP for an hour in 15 minutes.
<imbrandon> for those that dident see -devel , [01:54]  <stub> Launchpad will be going down in 15 minutes for a regular code update. Estimated down time is one hour. This is longer than usual to perform some extra database maintenance.
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, I was about to do that :)
* rideout is listening to Yankee Bayonet (I Will Be Home Then) by The Decemberists [amarok] 
* Fujitsu is annoyed at such scripts.
<imbrandon> rideout, thats kinda frowned uppon in the -devel chans ;)
<Fujitsu> Yeah, there's no need for a broadcast over every single channel you're in.
<rideout> sorry
<Hobbsee> oh lovely.
<rideout> i thought I turned it off, it was a test i was running
<Hobbsee> guess i wont fix bugs then.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, yeah, it is annoying.
<imbrandon> only for aussies ;)
* imbrandon ducks
<Fujitsu> Taking down Ubuntu's primary piece of infrastructure for an hour, two days before UniverseFreeze... Not good.
* Hobbsee attacks imbrandon with her long and pointy stick
<Hobbsee> point
<Hobbsee> i wonder if soyuz still works then
* Fujitsu clones Hobbsee's stick, and attacks imbrandon.
<Fujitsu> I'd hope it would...
<Hobbsee> hehe
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, well hopefully some bd maint will make it faster ;) just think of it that way
<imbrandon> db*
<Fujitsu> I doubt it :P
<imbrandon> well the buildd's will still probably process whats in the que already but not que any new builds , as soyuz is part of lp
<Fujitsu> Remember that Soyuz only processes every hour, so it shouldn't have much effect.
<imbrandon> processes new archive stuff but it queues new builds that are processed all the time
<imbrandon> its the scheduler
<imbrandon> also that means no wiki edits for the next hour, as the wiki auth is done by LP
<imbrandon> etc etc etc
<Fujitsu> So Soyuz replaces wanna-build as well?
<imbrandon> soyuz is the /whole/ system , yes
<Fujitsu> I really wish that LP auth caching spec had been implemented :(
<Fujitsu> Ah, I presumed it still used wanna-build for queueing.
<Fujitsu> Yay, another netsplit.
<lastnode> Fujitsu, were there more today?
* lastnode was not online earlier
<Fujitsu> No, but a couple about 24 hours ago.
<lastnode> hmmm
* Fujitsu kicks LP a bit.
<ajmitch> be patient
<Fujitsu> Sorry.
<Fujitsu> I think I'm a little too nervous.
<Hobbsee> you'll be fine
<Hobbsee> i'll eat you instead of htem :P
<Fujitsu> That's not going to stop me being nervous :P
<Fujitsu> Oh, terrific.
<Fujitsu> At least it'll go to a good cause (ie. an Aussie).
<Hobbsee> i dont think they've been fed anything in a while
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Fujitsu> They've got a couple to eat before me, fortunately.
<ajmitch> dunno what you're worried about
<ajmitch> you haven't been giving people horribly broken patches or anything
<Fujitsu> True.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Is your key signed by someone from a strong set?
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: imbrandon's isnt, and he's in core now.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso, I've got a meeting set up for 2pm tomorrow with another DD.
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: I know that.
<Hobbsee> so obviously they dont care
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: they really *really* should
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, yeah... That's dangerous.
<Fujitsu> Hm, the wiki does odd stuff when the authentication DB is missing.
<Fujitsu> Like displaying the first portion of the hostname as the editor when showing revision history.
<Fujitsu> It is /really/ dangerous that they allow uploads without verified keys... :(
<Hobbsee> on imbrandon's machine, it thinks i'm uploading without a verified key
<Hobbsee> i'm not - i imported StevenK's, but none of his signers are imported
<Fujitsu> Hey dholbach.
<ajmitch> daniel!
<Hobbsee> hey dholbach
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> hey Fujitsu, Hobbsee, ajmitch!
<Hobbsee> :)
<AnAnt> anyone knows when LP will be back online ?
<Hobbsee> an hour or so
<Fujitsu> AnAnt, about 10 past.
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: thanks
<ajmitch> hopefully earlier than that
<AnAnt> k
<Fujitsu> Hopefully.
<Fujitsu> Wow.
<ajmitch> imbrandon obviously had too much to say
<Hobbsee> lol
<Fujitsu> Haha.
<lfittl> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey lfittl
<imbrandon> ugh x2
<Fujitsu> Noted.
<imbrandon> i give up
* Hobbsee thumps LP
* Fujitsu transforms into ajmitch:
<Fujitsu> Be patient!
<imbrandon> be patient
<Fujitsu> :P
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, i give up on the konversation python script, i just got killed twice trying to workon it
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: right, oay
<imbrandon> so we're without for now
<imbrandon> lol
<Fujitsu> Silly Konversation.
* Fujitsu ducks.
* Hobbsee kicks and stomps Fujitsu 
* imbrandon looks for the /op button, yup thats still works 
<imbrandon> ...
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, aw... I didn't do that to ajmitch... :(
<Hobbsee> hehe
<imbrandon> he dident diss konv either ;)
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> its scripts really do suck though
<Fujitsu> Hm, ture.
<Fujitsu> *true
<ChaosFan> y/wg 31
<realist> Is there a list of packages needing work, if so, can someone point me towards them?
<Fujitsu> Ooh, another Aussie MOTUing-person. Yay :)
<Fujitsu> I don't know of a list.
<ajmitch> sigh, it's being taken over by australians
<Fujitsu> Poor sole little NZer... :(
<ajmitch> sole?
<ajmitch> Plug is still around
<Fujitsu> Hm, true. Oops.
<realist> ajmitch: sure, why not, the debian project leader is also Australian
<realist> Fujitsu: pending other commitments
<Fujitsu> And LP is back :)
<Fujitsu> Terrific:
<Fujitsu> <stub> soyuz is still down - I'll wait a tick until malcc shows up and he can confirm it should still be running with the old code.
<AnAnt> is it possible that a NEW source package be accepted, yet the binaries not get accepted ?
<AnAnt> and how do I know the reason of rejection (in case it gets rejected)
<realist> Time for me to head home... I'll ttyl about motu Fujitsu
<realist> AnAnt: you'd want to hope not
<AnAnt> also there is something I don't understand, I have a new package (called acon) it's binaries are on the new queue, yet on https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/acon it says that its status is published, what does that mean ?
<AnAnt> realist: hope not for what ?
<ajmitch> AnAnt: source is published, binaries not
<AnAnt> oh
<ajmitch> so yes, they need to be approved as well, apparantly
<ajmitch> the glorious new world order of soyuz
<AnAnt> ajmitch: btw, you were answering which question ? "hope not for what ?" or the longer question ?
<ajmitch> it was all the same question
<AnAnt> ok
<realist> AnAnt: I was merely saying that you'd hope that the source packages were consistent with the binary, or vice versa
<AnAnt> oh
<AnAnt> why does it take so long for binaries to get approved ?
<AnAnt> compared to source package that iis
<Plug> realist: I got drunk with the DPL in Dunedin, NZ
<ajmitch> Plug: coming to LCA next year?
<realist> Plug, cool - perhaps I will get an opportunity at the next debconf
<AnAnt> ?
<Plug> ajmitch: unsure, I'll decide nearer the time
<Plug> a question I had
<Plug> is it OK to run autoconf/automake in debian/rules?
<Plug> (would minimise patching if I could do it to configure.in rather than configure)
<ajmitch> Plug: yeah, it can be done, if you have them in build-depends
<ajmitch> there are varying opinions on that of course :)
<saracen> Is there anyone working on getting mpd in before universe freeze?
<saracen> they finally released... after 2 years!
<Fujitsu> Is there a package of it?
<thom> Fujitsu: i guess saracen just means a new version
<thom> it's long since packages
<thom> packaged
<Fujitsu> Aha, OK.
<saracen> ya
<saracen> version 0.12
<Fujitsu> I'll grab the RC packages from experimental and see if I can update them quickly.
<saracen> great
<Fujitsu> I'll also grab mpc...
<saracen> There's also a great new client that's not yet in Debian
<saracen> http://sonata.berlios.de/index.html
<Fujitsu> That'll have to wait for Edgy+1... Not going to happen with 48 hours to go.
<saracen> Even with an existing package?
<Fujitsu> They produce a Debian package?
<Fujitsu> So they do.
<Fujitsu> Still unlikely.
<Fujitsu> For one thing, they don't provide a source package.
<saracen> http://download.berlios.de/sonata/sonata-0.6.tar.gz
<saracen> That's the source
<Fujitsu> No, the Debian source package.
<Fujitsu> They only provide binary .debs, not the corresponding .diff.gz nor .dsc.
<saracen> right.  I could look around - is it worth trying?
<saracen> might just be too late...
<Fujitsu> It really is leaving it a little late. The chances of it getting in are miniscule.
<Fujitsu> OK, I've updated mpd, working on mpc.
<Fujitsu> Brb.
<saracen> great, thanks Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> Back.
<Fujitsu> Any related bits other than mpd/mpc that you want updated?
<Fujitsu> saracen, ^^
<slytherin> Can someone help me with bug 62212 ? I mean although I have files a bug, should it be a support request?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62212 in gtkpod "Confusing packages in edgy" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62212
<lionelp> slytherin: in fact, this is not the same source package
<lionelp> gtkpod-aac for the binary package gtkpod-aac
<lionelp> and gtkpod for gtkpod binary package
<Fujitsu> lionelp, they are in fact from the same upstream tarball, but one of them is compiled with aac support, and they're in different source packages for some reason.
<lionelp> Fujitsu: yes but the Debian source packages are different
<lionelp> that's why the packages are out of sync
<lionelp> (-aac seems to come from REVU)
<Fujitsu> Yes, I know, but it's strange that they're seperate.
<Fujitsu> It would, yes.
<Fujitsu> I looked at merging it a while ago, but stopped for some reason.
<slytherin> lionelp: Fujitsu: I don't know exact reason. But it is still issue that versions are different. Low priority may be.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: oh to-be-motu, when does the freeze come in?
<Fujitsu> slytherin, I'll look into getting that new version in in the next few hours.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, start of the dev team meeting, I believe.
<Fujitsu> Which is...
* Fujitsu checks.
<Fujitsu> And it's just maybe-to-be-motu :P
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> sept 28th, according to this
<Fujitsu> Hm
<Fujitsu> It can't be... THere's no dev team meeting this week.
<Adri2000> slytherin: i added a comment, i hope i'm not wrong
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Checked https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyReleaseSchedule?
<Fujitsu> Oh, I knew it was the 28th.
<Fujitsu> I was unsure of the time.
<slytherin> Fujitsu: I am in no hurry. But I hope you are aware that UniverseFreeze is schedules on 28th
<Fujitsu> Our almight release-manager says 1400UTC.
<lupine_85> boo hoo :(
<Fujitsu> *almighty
<Fujitsu> slytherin, noted.
<slytherin> Adri2000: Thanks for your explaination. I don't know why I failed to note the separate source package.
<zakame> hi all
<Kamping_Kaiser> how long untill universe freeze?
<zul> thursday
<Kamping_Kaiser> ok, thanks zul
<Fujitsu> Kamping_Kaiser, 1400UTC is the current expected time.
<Kamping_Kaiser> ta.
<Fujitsu> Why?
<Kamping_Kaiser> Fujitsu, not entirely sure. i just had this urge to ask
<Fujitsu> Hah.
<Kamping_Kaiser> :|
* Kamping_Kaiser vanishes in a puff of randomness
<seaLne> would there be any where that a package could install .o files?
<lupine_85> ...?
<pygi> seaLne, why exactly would you want to install object files?
<seaLne> i'm trying to find a solution to another package trying to use ar on them
<seaLne> installing the .o dosen't sound right but this is a bit beyond my knowledge of libs and things
<keescook> seaLne: which package is that?
<seaLne> new sleuthkit runs ar on libewf and afflib stuff
<seaLne> ar rv ../../lib/libt
<seaLne> sk.a src/*.o
<keescook> that sounds right, -dev packages install .a files and generally .h files too.
<keescook> (like, look at libpcap0.7-dev) Or did I misunderstand the concern?
<seaLne> keescook: libewf-dev installs .h and .a but i'm not sure how that relates to how sleuthkit is trying to use ar to statically link stuff
<keescook> seaLne: after a quick glance at the Makefile, it looks like it's just building the .a file during the build so the later tools can find all the .o's in one place.
<seaLne> yeah
<seaLne> so i can just ignore that?
<keescook> I think so; it just looks like it's part of the normal build process.
<seaLne> cool
<cbx33> hey people
<cbx33> any motu-ers in the UK?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<pygi> hey bddebian
<cbx33> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya pygi, cbx33 :_)
* lupine_85 isn't an motu-er... yet ;)
<Riddell> cbx33: yes
<cbx33> Riddell: where abouts ;)
* cbx33 is going for MOTU tonight...but unfortunately I don't have a signed key
<cbx33> yet
<tseng> I imagine you could be approved w/o a key if you have a good track record of sponsored work
<Hobbsee> cbx33: you're going for MOTU?  neat.
<azeem> cbx33: where are you located?
<tseng> just get added to the keyring afterwards
<Hobbsee> tseng: we have a core-dev without an unsigned key.  they really should police that a bit more :P
<tseng> Hobbsee: im not sure you said exactly what you meat
<cbx33> southampton UK
<tseng> meant
<Hobbsee> probably
<tseng> but I don't see why that would be a problem
<tseng> unless its in the keyring that is
<StevenK> Hobbsee: To be honest, Launchpad should.
<tseng> sponsored uploads are fine
<thom> Hobbsee: i think you meant "with an unsigned key", although i hope you don't mean that it's in the keyring
<Hobbsee> gah.  iv'e used a double negative too.
<cbx33> ogra sponsors my uploads at the moment
<tseng> hopefully ogra will be at the meeting for you, th e
<tseng> then
<ogra> sure he will :P
<cbx33> he will ;)
<Riddell> cbx33: Edinburgh
<cbx33> heh, ah.......not really likely then ;)
* pygi ignores his "no package uploads" and applies for motu :)
<Hobbsee> StevenK: indeed.
* pygi is ofcourse just joking around :)
<cbx33> anyone know why my gisomount package in universe is not on my LP page?
<fdoving> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+source/gisomount/+changelog
<fdoving> https://launchpad.net/people/petesavage-ubuntu/+packages
<Riddell> cbx33: sladen is in southhampton quite a lot (not just now though)
<cbx33> fdoving: ahh....hmm
<lupine_85> :'( https://launchpad.net/people/lupine/+packages
<Hobbsee> cbx33: you probably want to hit https://launchpad.net/people/+requestmerge?field.dupeaccount=petesavage-ubuntu
<cbx33> thanks fdoving - https://launchpad.net/people/petesavage/+packages
<cbx33> yup just done it ;)
<cbx33> bbl guys
<Toadstool> hi everybody
<bddebian> Heya Toadstool
<Toadstool> hi bddebian
<Adri2000> hello
<Adri2000> what tool can i use to patch a package ?
<tseng> dpatch?
<tseng> cdbs?
<Gloubiboulga> simple-patchsys.mk :)
<tseng> thats an open ended question
<tseng> there are half a dozen ways
<Adri2000> the package already exists, i want to edit a file in it to fix a bug
<tseng> I recommend at least learning dpatch
<Adri2000> i know dpatch
<tseng> but don't add it to existing packages for no reason
<tseng> it makes people very fussy
<Adri2000> dpatch is not what i need
<slomo_> quilt? ;)
<tseng> you'll have to be alot more specific than
<Adri2000> ok: there is a bug in launchpad, seems very simple to fix, i want to create a patch with the fix to send it on launchpad
<tseng> so you mean 'diff'?
<Adri2000> s/simple/easy/
<Adri2000> just diff -uNvr (something like that) ?
<tseng> diff -ruN brokenpackage/ fixedpackage/ > mycoolpatch
<Adri2000> yep, no -v
<Adri2000> ok
<bddebian> Hmm, a package called beast with a version 0.6.6-6  Should I be scared? :-)
<pygi> elkbuntu, !!! :)
<pygi> bddebian, ofcourse :P
<imbrandon> bddebian, hehe only if it has something to do with X ;)
<bddebian> heh
<imbrandon> ahh finaly a thread on -devel thats worth something ( development wise )
<imbrandon> heya elkbuntu
<bddebian> Anyone around here care about / deal with gnustep?
<lfittl> evening everybody
<imbrandon> heya
<bddebian> Heya lfittl
<lfittl> hey bddebian
<LaserJock> thank zul I was trying to come up with something good to say
<zul> yargh...xen-3.0.3rc1 has been released
<Fujitsu> Hi LaserJock.
<LaserJock> hi Fujitsu
<LaserJock> well, I guess Keybuck has opened the flood gates
<Fujitsu> It looks like it :S
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: nevrous yet?
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, I have been for just under 24 hours now :P
<Adri2000> Fujitsu: candidate to MOTU ?
<bddebian> The floodgates for what?
<Fujitsu> Adri2000, yeah.
<Adri2000> good luck :)
<Fujitsu> Thanks :)
<LaserJock> bddebian: he just suggested on -devel ML that we should use DVD by default for edgy+1
<bddebian> Ahh
<Fujitsu> DVD?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: well, that'd be quite a change
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> edubuntu has this discussion almost every meeting
<LaserJock> it's virtually impossible to do what we want to do on 1 cd
<ajmitch> & a massive download
<LaserJock> the problem is, I don't see how we can get out of it without creating several .isos
<pygi> good luck Fujitsu :)
<LaserJock> and that will make the release process more complicated
<Fujitsu> Thanks, pygi :)
<ajmitch> yay, let the grilling begin!
<bddebian> heh
* LaserJock smells the burning Fujitsu already ;-)
* lupine_85 thought one of the design goals of ubuntu was to have a distro that fit on one "cd"
<AnAnt> bddebian: thanks for freedict
<bddebian> AnAnt: NP, sorry I haven't gotten to tss yet :(
<lupine_85> IMO, *-desktop depends on too much already
<LaserJock> lupine_85: not excplicetly I don't think so
<AnAnt> bddebian: nevermind, it prolly has license issues
<bddebian> OK
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: you're lucky, they're being gentle..
<lupine_85> hmm, OK
<lupine_85> single-CD is one of the great strengths of ubuntu, though
<LaserJock> so is haveing a good desktop experience by default
<lupine_85> even with the fastest ADSL in the west, downloading a DVD is a pita
<LaserJock> those 2 goals kinda clash sometimes
<lupine_85> indeed
<LaserJock> well, I think the idea is people shouldn't really be downloading DVDs much
<LaserJock> that's what shipit and the alternate CD are for
<lupine_85> the answer, of course, is to have a "main install" CD, then release various themed CD/DVD packages which one can't install from, and aren't needed by the installer
<lupine_85> add one well-supported iso builder for the community, and all needs are catered for
<ajmitch> back to debian..
<LaserJock> I think the DVD idea is a good one
<ajmitch> or fedora, or any other multi-cd distro
<LaserJock> as long as we can have a good alternate cd system
<pygi> lupine_85, actually LP is supposed to have a mechanism to create "customized ubuntu version" or "packages cd"
<lupine_85> it's only really important in the context of people without internet access, of course, as they're basically a repository substitute
<lupine_85> LP?
<pygi> and it will have that in the future
<pygi> Launchpad
<lupine_85> edgy+1?
<lupine_85> oh, ok
<pygi> that might happen someday in the future
<lupine_85> falcon can do it now ;)
<AnAnt> bddebian: btw, I see that the source package for freedict is in the repos, and the binary package is in NEW QUEUE , is that correct that it is in new queue ?
<lupine_85> obviously, without all the dependency resolution etc that's so important
<bddebian> AnAnt: Yes unfortunately because the binary has changed
<geser> LaserJock: how should someone get a DVD throuth shipit after this announce https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue14?action=show&redirect=UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter%2FCurrent#head-1e3555bea7bd06018bbadcf89ed23281e09d78f1
* lupine_85 is panicking about his package in revu now :(
<AnAnt> Indo ubuntu community ?
<AnAnt> hmmm, do I know if there is a ubuntu community in my country ?
<LaserJock> geser: we'll have to see ;-)
<lupine_85> .ar ... a new one on me ;)
<beuno> what's wrong with .ar?
<lupine_85> nothing, I just have no idea where in the world it is
<LaserJock> hehe
<LaserJock> this is hard
<AnAnt> what is .ar ?
<LaserJock> I'm trying not to feed answers here ;-)
<beuno> really?
<beuno> no idea?
<Fujitsu> Noted, noted. I'm just really nervous and tired.
<ajmitch> LaserJock: yes, let Fujitsu sweat it out for himself :)
<beuno> Argentina
<ajmitch> poor Fujitsu is getting pushed into the background by side arguments
<AnAnt> oh
<AnAnt> bddebian: the universe will freeze on thursday, right ?
<lfittl> AnAnt: yep
<AnAnt> hmmm
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: well done
<pygi> congrats Fujitsu :)
<Fujitsu> Thanks for that, LaserJock :)
<minghua> congratulations Fujitsu
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: no problem, not get to work!
<LaserJock> *now
<bddebian> heh
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I think it's more like 'get to school!'
<bddebian> Fujitsu: Maybe I should be glad you are LaserJock's bitch now ;-P
* minghua can't help noticing Fujitsu gets harder questions than him
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, school holidays now :P
<minghua> what about "get to bed"? :-)
<ajmitch> lucky
<ajmitch> bddebian: umm.. don't
<bddebian> ?
<ajmitch> your last comment
<bddebian> Aye, what about it?
* ajmitch sighs
<Fujitsu> Why, ajmitch?
<bddebian> Fujitsu: ajmitch hates me :)
<LaserJock> he does not
<LaserJock> I don't think anyway ;-)
<LaserJock> his point being, I would think, that the CoC might have been better observed in your commentary
<LaserJock> Fujitsu is only my willing slave ;-)
<Fujitsu> ;-)
<bddebian> Oh yes, I forget we are all "sensitive" in here
<AnAnt> what is composity ?
* LaserJock gives bddebian a hug
* Fujitsu gives bddebian a bug.
<bddebian> Fujitsu: haha, touche
<Toadstool> ...
<Toadstool> I missed the meeting :/
* Toadstool was stucked working in the lab
<Toadstool> Fujitsu: congrats :)
<Fujitsu> Thanks, Toadstool :D
<minghua> wow, so ubuntu desktop CD doesn't have packages now but copy a file system instead?
* minghua didn't know that
<Fujitsu> minghua, same as always.
<minghua> Fujitsu: always, as in "since warty"?
<Fujitsu> Yes.
<Fujitsu> There's no other way to do it.
<minghua> somehow I remember seeing dpkg messages in hoary installation, I must be wrong then
<Fujitsu> Er, Hoary had a normal installer, not a live one.
<minghua> let me check what "desktop CD" mean...
<Fujitsu> The Live CD always copied the filesystem.
<LaserJock> Desktop CD = LiveCD sincd Dapper
<LaserJock> we didn't always have the livecd
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, the Live CD has been around forever, you mean we didn't always have the Desktop CD?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> we didn't have a Live Cd forever
<pygi> Fujitsu, true, we didnt had it
<minghua> Fujitsu: we definitely didn't have live CD for warty
<LaserJock> I think it was LiveCD for Breezy
<LaserJock> and Desktop CD for dapper
<minghua> that sounds right
<LaserJock> and <= Hoary was d-i
<Fujitsu> Er, I have both Warty and Hoary CDs from ShipIt here with Install and Live CDs.
<LaserJock> hmmm
<LaserJock> installable Live CDs?
<LaserJock> I think not
<Fujitsu> No, they're not.
<LaserJock> perhaps there were LiveCDs but they were just LiveCDs
<Fujitsu> Dapper had the first installable one.
<LaserJock> I can't remember
<LaserJock> well, whatever
<LaserJock> Dapper started the Desktop CD which is an installable live cd
<Fujitsu> Yes.
<minghua> "Ubuntu 5.04 introduces the new Live CD infrastructure that allows for a Live CD for all officially supported Ubuntu architectures"
<minghua> so I think I was wrong and Fujitsu was right
<minghua> but I somehow never remember warty live CDs
<Fujitsu> 4.10 had the Live CD for x86 only.
* ajmitch has warty live cds on the shelf somewhere
<tseng> i have ONE warty cd
<tseng> snatched it up at UDU
<tseng> for posterity
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> I started with Hoary
<LaserJock> and didn't have it all that long
<tseng> i started with sounder 7
<Fujitsu> Hahah.
<tseng> or whatever the hell the first secret release was
<tseng> to community people
<tseng> no-name-yet.com
<Fujitsu> I got Hoary first, but managed to grab some Warty off a friend.
<Fujitsu> I had to have the complete set.
<minghua> Fujitsu: however Desktop CD only existed since dapper (so not forever :-)
<Fujitsu> <Fujitsu> LaserJock, the Live CD has been around forever
<Fujitsu> minghua, ^^
<Fujitsu> Live CD, not Desktop CD.
<minghua> yeah, I heard somebody was trying to collect all shipit CDs of every release for every architecture and every flavor
<minghua> Fujitsu: true, thanks for the clarification
<Q-FUNK> hm
<LaserJock> hi Q-FUNK
<ajmitch> hi Q-FUNK
<Fujitsu> Hi Q-FUNK.
<Q-FUNK> I'm really begining to wonder what's going on with sync requests.
<Q-FUNK> hoedy
<Q-FUNK> howdy, even
<LaserJock> archive-admin seems pretty busy
<LaserJock> there's a decent NEW backlog
<ajmitch> Q-FUNK: it's not as bad as it used to be
<Q-FUNK> ah
<LaserJock> and Kamion is moving houses, it seems
<ajmitch> when the only way of getting syncs was bugging elmo on irc or by mail
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, fun.
<ajmitch> oh yes
<Q-FUNK> elmo. *shock* *horror*
* LaserJock remebers the good ole' days
<LaserJock> the answer to any questions was "ping elmo"
<azeem> Q-FUNK: not as bad as neuro, eh?
<Q-FUNK> azeem: they are equally bad
<azeem> ah, ok
<LaserJock> azeem: do you have any idea how long it would take to get g-c-u through NEW?
<azeem> LaserJock: longer than thursday for sure
<ajmitch> Q-FUNK: oh good, I forgot you knew elmo ;)
<azeem> LaserJock: I'd upload it to edgy but it B-D to chemical-mime-data which is pending a sync request
<geser> I'm trying to build php4 from debian unstable but have problems with the build-deps
<ajmitch> LaserJock: we have a team for universe freeze exceptions
<azeem> s/to/on/
<Q-FUNK> ajmitch: I know elmo since... about 1996.  he used to go by the nick jamest, back then, on ircnet.
<Fujitsu> azeem, aha. That's not good...
<geser> it depends on apache-dev (which depends on libdb4.4-dev) and apache2-prefork-dev (which depends on libdb4.3-dev) and both can't be installed at the same time
<joejaxx> does anyone know where firefox keeps the defulat homepage settings at? file waise?
<azeem> I know elmo since 2003 and he's one of the nicest people to hang out with you could imagine
<LaserJock> ajmitch: do you have an idea who's going to be doing that this time?
<LaserJock> seems like all the good people are busy ;-)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: yes, we discussed it last week
<ajmitch> you need 2 approvals, from the team of dholbach, slomo & siretart
<LaserJock> last week?
<LaserJock> where?
<ajmitch> on irc
<LaserJock> k
<ajmitch> sorry, no democratic processes here, we just go with what works :)
<LaserJock> I don't like it too well, but I guess it's what we got
<ajmitch> I trust they'll make sane choices, we can revisit it if they're not availble often anough
<Q-FUNK> azeem: in person, he is.  had a ball grabbing lunch with him at debconf5.  however, online... ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!
<ajmitch> heh
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I don't doubt the saneness, I doubt availability
<ajmitch> LaserJock: as I said, we can discuss it if it happens
<LaserJock> I know
<ajmitch> I think siretart is mostly moved in now
<ajmitch> & should be around more soon
<LaserJock> and I don't really know who to add
<ajmitch> slomo is always around
<LaserJock> other than crimsun but he needs a much deserved break
* ajmitch isn't qualified
* lupine_85 thinks his package won't be reviewed and accepted by thursday
<lupine_85> ah well
<ajmitch> sorry, I've been too busy trying to get other stuff done by thursday
<ajmitch> I'll try & get some reviewing done
<Q-FUNK> seems that we need more than 2 archive masters.
<LaserJock> well, if only our archive masters were just archive masters ;-)
<Q-FUNK> *sigh* this feels like Debian all over again :(
<LaserJock> of course, where do you think we got the idea? and people? ;-)
<tseng> Q-FUNK: we suck less
<tseng> Q-FUNK: (usually)
<LaserJock> haha
<tseng> :D
<lupine_85> well, if you're desperate for recruits...
* lupine_85 shaves his head
<LaserJock> well
<lupine_85> erm, probably not but you get the idea ;)
<Q-FUNK> LaserJock: same thing at Debian.  elmo and joey having last dibs over to many teams.
* lupine_85 has long hair
<tseng> Q-FUNK: elmo isnt an archive admin
<tseng> (in Ubuntu)
<tseng> since 6 months ago perhaps
<tseng> keybuk, kamion, mdz has all powers
<ajmitch> Q-FUNK: except that we do have recourse to the TB, and they do listen
<Q-FUNK> tseng: indeed not, but the same issue over having a handful of people wearing too many hats and not wearing any particular one well repeats itself.
<ajmitch> Q-FUNK: that springs up in any organisation
<tseng> Q-FUNK: well there is much less bottleneck
<tseng> Q-FUNK: and alot more room for someone to step in if work isnt happening
<Q-FUNK> ajmitch: I disagree.
<LaserJock> well, there are only so many people that can do the job
<tseng> we rarely have a long backlog in NEW
<lupine_85> ajmitch: I can appreciate you're busy :). If it doesn't get in, it doesn't get in - I can host it outside still
<Q-FUNK> ajmitch: I have worked in companies where bottlenecks were noticed and workloads immediately rearranged to adjust.
<ajmitch> lupine_85: I'm not the only reviewer :)
<lupine_85> hehe
<LaserJock> Q-FUNK: hence why elmo is no longer archive master
<lupine_85> I had a couple of comments, fixed them within a couple of hours, nothing since
<LaserJock> and was replaced by a team
<lupine_85> no advocates yet
<Q-FUNK> LaserJock: that team should have at least 5 or 6 active people without any other responsability within ubuntu, to be efficient.
<LaserJock> Q-FUNK: sure, but we don't have that many qualified people, IMO
<Q-FUNK> yes you do
<ajmitch> Q-FUNK: that team currently requires direct access to the launchpad database
<tseng> Q-FUNK: there isnt that much work to do whne people are on the payroll at a 10 hour day
<geser> should the security-team be informed about unfixed CVEs in universe?
<geser> for edgy
<LaserJock> Q-FUNK: I'm with you about needing more people
#ubuntu-motu 2006-09-27
<ajmitch> geser: universe security is primarily our responsibility
<LaserJock> I just don't know who
<tseng> LaserJock: not really dude
<tseng> its fast enough
<tseng> better things to do
<tseng> etc
<minghua> I remember CVEs are tracked in a special place
<LaserJock> well, I think Kamion and Keybuk have better things to do most of the time
<tseng> http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/ubuntu-cve/
<Q-FUNK> LaserJock: as I said a number of times:  there's plenty of people with a good understanding of the arhcive and of what consttutes good packages.
<Q-FUNK> same thign at debian
<tseng> LaserJock: mark isnt going to pay someone just to man the archive
<LaserJock> it's hard with this fast of a dev cycle when you have to wait weeks for things
<tseng> LaserJock: and any person with such skills can do something more useful
<LaserJock> tseng: I'm not talking paid
<tseng> sigh
<tseng> impossible
<geser> ajmitch: i'm trying to rebuild php4 from debian unstable (for security fixes) but fails as it needs both libdb4.3-dev and libdb4.4-dev
<LaserJock> tseng: I know what you mean
<Q-FUNK> that only 1 or 2 new guys per decade get trusted enough to get the root they need to act is a whole other issue.
<tseng> LaserJock: ask for a login to davis
<tseng> LaserJock: good luck
<LaserJock> that's what I'm saying
<geser> ajmitch: have you an idea how to proceed?
<LaserJock> tseng: what I'm saying is I'd like to see more time put into archive admin but I don't really see that happening
<ajmitch> geser: no, I haven't touched php4, infinity may know when he's around tomorrow
* ajmitch gets back to work
<Q-FUNK> LaserJock: and it so happens thta kamion and keybouck indeed are better at less boring tasks, so why not have someone else e.g. not internested in reinventing sysvinit handle NEW?
<tseng> LaserJock: we could also have an art team
<tseng> LaserJock: yay fantasy land
<Q-FUNK> there is an art team
<LaserJock> Q-FUNK: like who?
<LaserJock> I'm not seeing anybody
<Q-FUNK> i was subscribed to the list until a few months ago
<tseng> Q-FUNK: there is a group of people who think that brown gradients are art
<LaserJock> anyway...
<tseng> yeah sorry
<Q-FUNK> people got tired of jdub and jane silber constantly butting in and calling the shots, despite not contributing anything artistic.
<tseng> had to do it
<LaserJock> it'd be nice if archive admin'ing was faster
<LaserJock> but it'
<lupine_85> brown--
<LaserJock> it's not as bad as it used to be
<LaserJock> and from my limited experience in Debian it's about on par
<LaserJock> at least for NEW Ubuntu seems a bit faster
<tseng> loads faster
<Q-FUNK> i also used to subscribe to ubuntu-marketing.  same issue.  every time we were about to figure out a solution to something, jane silber butting in out of nowhere.
<LaserJock> but debian doesn't have the sync thing
<LaserJock> but right now most syncs take a couple days tops
<LaserJock> I think
<Q-FUNK> nope
<Q-FUNK> at least not on my packages
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, mine regularly take a week.
<Q-FUNK> it indeed was worse back when one had to nag elmo, but I cannot say it got any better now.
<crimsun> Q-FUNK: these are all valid points, and I wish you could have raised them at the TB meeting today (for which you applied for ubuntu-dev membership but didn't show)
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: oh really?
<LaserJock> yeah, a week is tough when we're up against a freeze
<Fujitsu> Yeah.
<LaserJock> it's not bad if you are doing single packages
<Q-FUNK> crimsun: I'll eventually show up :)  I just cannot be everywhere at the same time.
<crimsun> Q-FUNK: understood :)
<LaserJock> but when you have packages that depend on others ...
<crimsun> Fujitsu: congrats
<Fujitsu> Like, my oldest one now is from a week ago.
<Fujitsu> THanks crimsun :)
<Fujitsu> And thanks for sending in an email :
<Fujitsu> *:)
<crimsun> np
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, exactly, like gnome-chemistry-utils.
<lotusleaf> I was using debmirror and went to sleep and woke up and it stopped midway, is there any way to continue where I left off without starting all over again?
<Fujitsu> lotusleaf, just start it up again.
<lotusleaf> Fujitsu: it won't remove directories or anything?
<minghua> I think crimsun is right, we (MOTUs) should mention this on TB meeting
<Fujitsu> No, unless they've been removed from Packages.
<Q-FUNK> crimsun: I'm working on a project whose website just opened today (albeit with filler content, for now).
<lotusleaf> Fujitsu: thanks! :)
<Fujitsu> minghua, I agree too.
<Fujitsu> lotusleaf, otherwise I'd not have a mirror, mine often fails.
<minghua> (maybe too late for edgy though, but at least make sure this doesn't happen again before edgy+1 freeze)
<lotusleaf> Fujitsu: whew, that's a relief to hear. ;)
<Q-FUNK> crimsun: my blog on the debian planet says a bit about it.
<crimsun> cbx33: congrats, too
<Fujitsu> I do find it a little strange that two of the absolutely key developers are the ones spending the time doing syncs etc., when they can (and do) do better things.
<crimsun> it seems to be a trust issue, which I can understand
<Q-FUNK> keybuck's work on startup is a reason to rejoice.  as to why he ends up doign what others withotu inspiratin to code but who can tella bad package from a good one ciuld do is beynd me.
<minghua> Q-FUNK's blog entry sounds just like teasing to me :-)
<Q-FUNK> ;)
<crimsun> it was actually discussed either in #ubuntu-devel or at a TB meeting a while ago. There's soyuz work for a sync (LP) button iirc
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I think that's the solution that they are waiting on
<Q-FUNK> whne is soyuz going to orbit?
<Fujitsu> crimsun, they mentioned in a TB meeting in January that that was coming `soon'.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: good, that means by this Jan. it might happen ;-)
<Q-FUNK> free software and (lack of) deadlines.  *sigh*
<Fujitsu> Q-FUNK, ah, but Soyuz isn't Free.
<LaserJock> heh
<Fujitsu> If it were, this would have been implemented months ago.
<Fujitsu> As it'd be incredibly useful.
<LaserJock> I doubt it
<Q-FUNK>   
<LaserJock> I don't think this stuff would go that much faster as open source
<LaserJock> but I could be totally wrong
<LaserJock> have been in the past ;-)
<Fujitsu> Having it open would allow much greater participation, I'd assume.
<Fujitsu> But that's not going to happen.
<LaserJock> assuming be want/would work on it
<Q-FUNK> i mean, what is the point of motu team being called _master_ of the universe if we have to pss thru the keybuck/kamion bottleneck?
<LaserJock> s/be/people/
<LaserJock> Q-FUNK: hahaha
<LaserJock> well, we proposed a Universe archive admin team once
* Fujitsu points out planet.ubuntu.com, top post.
<Q-FUNK> what is it that the team masters, exactly?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, in the TB meeting in January, I believe.
<Q-FUNK> and?
<LaserJock> Q-FUNK: uploading, and screwing up peoples computers ;-)
<Fujitsu> But that can't happen, 'cause they access the DB raw, so no permissions.
<Q-FUNK> not acceptable to the lose canons that be?
<LaserJock> I do think there's a trust issue
<Q-FUNK> fix the db, not the process.  how is that hard to get?
<LaserJock> well placed or not
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, there is certainly a trust issue.
<LaserJock> well, the thing is they already have a solution planed (via LP)
<Fujitsu> Q-FUNK, the web frontend hasn't been developed yet... It's coming `soon'.
<cbx33> thanks crimsun
<Q-FUNK> that's why i said that it's similar to debian putting everythign in the hand of ganneff and elmo.  bottleneck.
<tseng> to address that, I was told the "trust issue" was data center policy
<tseng> not sure if that is canonical DC policy or the DC itself
<LaserJock> but again, who would be doing the admin'ing
<tseng> but i know that the same DC has all of AOL's European equipment
<tseng> and other high priority things
<LaserJock> the same issue arises, I think
<tseng> they are happy to give boxes outside that DC
<tseng> like tiber
<LaserJock> good people who know what they are doing are going to be developing
<tseng> and boxes for LOCO teams
<LaserJock> not admining
<Q-FUNK> I would gladly admin.
<Q-FUNK> I onyl got into packaging by accident.
<Q-FUNK> and don't code at all.
<Fujitsu> Anyhow, it needs to be brought up at the TB, as one-week delays in syncing a week before the freeze is really not good.
<crimsun> it's really not as critical; exceptions for these bugfixes are normal
<Q-FUNK> especially when the case is a debian maintianer who when thru the trouble f merging a fix onyl beneficial to the ubuntu side, imho.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: but it only matter like one or two weeks a release, which makes it difficult to be pursuasive
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, true.
<Fujitsu> crimsun, dependencies are also problems.
<crimsun> surely. I imagine things will be a bit better after Thursday (beta).
<LaserJock> except Universe Freeze is Thursday
<Fujitsu> That's the problem, though. We're in freeze after beta.
<crimsun> we have freeze exceptions, too
<Fujitsu> Having UniverseFreeze and beta on the same day is silly.
<LaserJock> that's the other thing too
<crimsun> and bugfixes that are as critical as the one Q-FUNK mentioned go through
<Q-FUNK> exception are had to come by, unless we fix an RC bug.
<LaserJock> Dapper's freeze was hardly a freeze
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, rather slushy?
<LaserJock> Q-FUNK: heh, not in Universe
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: rather
<Q-FUNK> I'm not even sure if mine qualifies as RC fix.  it does solve a long-standing issue preventing cups-pdf from being usable on ubuntu, but that's about it.
<LaserJock> Q-FUNK: I don't think it'll be a problem
<crimsun> "not being usable" sounds critical to me
<Fujitsu> I don't think having universe frozen and the beta released on the same day is a good idea, because in the time leading up to that date, the core-devs are busy doing that, which means little/no archive-adminning just before freeze.
<Fujitsu> Which is right when it's needed most.
<LaserJock> yeah
<minghua> isn't there some rule like "existent sync requests before freeze will be processed"?
<Q-FUNK> since universe packages tend not t end up on the cd anyhow, why can't universe be a neverneding backport repository then?
<Fujitsu> minghua, I'd bloody well hope so.
<LaserJock> minghua: I really don't know
<LaserJock> I know some of my stuff got dropped in Dapper's UVF
<azeem> when exactly is the freeze?
<crimsun> Fujitsu: I agree that it would have been nice to shift it to a week before Beta (my original suggestion), but we'll have to live with it now
<LaserJock> 28th
<LaserJock> some time
<azeem> heh, ok
<Fujitsu> azeem, some time on the 28th, estimated by Mithrandir last night to be around 1400UTC.
<Fujitsu> crimsun, noted, but it needs to be looked at for Edgy+1.
<Fujitsu> Speaking of Edgy+1, shouldn't the name be released at some point!?
<LaserJock> I was at the edgy release schedule BOF a couple times
<Q-FUNK> bleeding eft
<LaserJock> I think UniverseFreeze was a little bit of an after thought ;-)
<nictuku> can I expect that all packages installation and upgrades work fine non-interactively?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: it always is
<Fujitsu> nictuku, no.
<ajmitch> LaserJock: generally up to us to decide
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, LaserJock: That's not good...
<LaserJock> not really
<Q-FUNK> LaserJock: but why freeze something that doesn't end up on the cd in the first place?  that part i really don't get.
<lifeless> Q-FUNK: quality control
<lifeless> Q-FUNK: the cd's are -not- why main freezes
<LaserJock> look, my impression (this is only my opinion) is that mdz doesn't really care a whole lot of Universe is doing
<ajmitch> hey lifeless
<LaserJock> so we can more or less do what we want with it
<ajmitch> LaserJock: he's quite easy-going with universe
<azeem> lifeless: bummer about opensync-0.19
<lifeless> hi ajmitch
<LaserJock> we did, IMO, have a fairly solid leadership structure
<LaserJock> which we no longer have
<Q-FUNK> lifeless: and yet universe truely is unsupported on ubuntu.  might as well make it a perpetual backport then.
<lifeless> azeem: about upstream sitting on arse for 6 months and not releasing ?
<LaserJock> which has made these issues harder to deal with
<ajmitch> LaserJock: then we'll change that
<azeem> lifeless: sort of, they're talking about releasing for a month now
<LaserJock> we need some leadership to step up
<azeem> or rather not talking
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, who used to lead?
<LaserJock> dholbach and ogra
<lifeless> azeem: yahuh. actually about 3 months abauer has been saying 'when the xyz branch is merged'
<ajmitch> LaserJock: fine, let's do it :)
<LaserJock> when was the last time we had a MOTU meeting?
<LaserJock> we used to have those all the time
<azeem> lifeless: apparently things is sort of tagged or committed in svn
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, not since Edgy opened, AFAIK.
<azeem> s/is/are/
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I've got some lists of packages (unmet deps), I'll get some build logs from fabbione soon
<Q-FUNK> actually, speaking og dholbach and ogra, why don't they get right s to process new/universe?
<lifeless> azeem: thats a start, but wow a bit late.
<ajmitch> LaserJock: even the last revu day we had to prod people to get going
<LaserJock> Q-FUNK: they are too busy doing dev work
<LaserJock> ajmitch: exactly
<LaserJock> we are, IMO, a rudderless ship
<Fujitsu> I think we need a meeting.
<lifeless> LaserJock: so organise a meeting
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, yes, all working independently.
<Fujitsu> Some structure needs to be organised, I think.
<LaserJock> we used to be more of a well-oiled machine
<Q-FUNK> idea:  since universe is not supported, assign all paid canonicals to only catter to main and leave absolute free reign over universe to motu team?
* ajmitch hasn't seen that many problems with how we've been going
<LaserJock> Q-FUNK: that is more or less done with the exception of archive admin'ing
<Q-FUNK> yet archive admin is the bottle neck.
<Q-FUNK> back to # one
<LaserJock> I don't think it is, honestly
<Q-FUNK> keybuck and kamion should spot two unpaid peeps from motu and give them access.  there.  sorted.
<LaserJock> it's *a* bottleneck, probably always will be
<LaserJock> Q-FUNK: heh, easier said then done since they don't let other paid devs do that
<LaserJock> It's an issue
<LaserJock> and maybe we can solve it that way, that'd be up to the TB
<Q-FUNK> the solution to this sounds similar to the enverending dilema is similar to debian and non-free packages: put it in a separate archive with its own team and own new queue.
<minghua> I don't think archive-admin is the only bottleneck either
<minghua> the thing is universe means completely different thing to different people
<LaserJock> mhm
<Q-FUNK> let's have a www.apt-universe.org
* minghua suspect that some people see lack of REVU reviewers as the biggest bottleneck
<LaserJock> yes, that's a big one
<LaserJock> I'd say our biggest bottleneck is the lack of MOTU hours
<minghua> I also know the Chinese Xubuntu derivative has their own repo
<LaserJock> either having more hours/MOTU or more MOTUs
<Fujitsu> Well, in a month I'll have literally every hour of my time for 3 months, that'll hopefully do something.
<LaserJock> anyway
<minghua> they don't push their changes into ubuntu proper because (1) some changes are just dirty hacks (2) there are just fewer experts on Chinese-specific issues, and it's hard to explain
<Q-FUNK> LaserJock: chicken and egg.  again, a typical debian dilema.  too huge distro to release in atimely fasion yet NM and especially DAM slowing the arial of more volunteers.
<LaserJock> things maybe haven't been so bad, as ajmitch has suggested
<minghua> I wonder what they see the bottleneck is
<ajmitch> LaserJock: where do you think the MOTU hours could be better spent then?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: not better spent hours, we just need more of them
<LaserJock> the thing is, we have a huge amount of work to do
<LaserJock> this isn't just about packaging
<minghua> I agree with ajmitch that we are doing fine as is
<LaserJock> minghua: without meetings, or organization?
<LaserJock> leadership
<minghua> however I wasn't really involved in the days of strong leadership
<LaserJock> well, I though even dapper was better
<minghua> LaserJock: leadership.  meetings are still necessary, IMO
<LaserJock> thought
<LaserJock> yeah
<crimsun> can we at least agree on shifting away from bringing newer packages (syncs, merges) in unless they fix /critical/ bugs?
<minghua> the problem is who to organize them
<LaserJock> minghua: of course
<LaserJock> I think one of the problems
<LaserJock> is that MOTUs tend to get sucked into other things
<crimsun> we're about a month away, so we really need to be concentrating on making things at least installable and runnable
<Q-FUNK> we need people to sift thru new packages and syncs.
<LaserJock> being a MOTU isn't neccessarily the stoping point
<Fujitsu> crimsun, yeah.
<Fujitsu> Q-FUNK, not at this point in the release cycle.
<Q-FUNK> it's a question of dividing the workload.
<minghua> crimsun: I agree with you, but I am not sure other users do, they just want their new/most up-to-date software
<crimsun> minghua: they'll have edgy-backports
<ajmitch> LaserJock: certainly - I've not done as much on universe this time round
<lifeless> mmmm
<crimsun> "as much crack as possible!"
<LaserJock> well, there is another issue here
<lifeless> I think that its important to recognize that there are two groups of users of universe :
<LaserJock> regarding merges/syncs
<LaserJock> not all merges/syncs are created equal
<Q-FUNK> LaserJock: being a motu helps, just as being a fully empowered DD at debian does.
<lifeless>  *) bleeding edge testers. These users want to track universe in the current development version.
<lifeless>  *) end users / corporates etc. These users want the universe that matches a release of main to be as stable as possible
<LaserJock> what we don't have is any system (I don't think) to prioritize and organize merge/sync
<LaserJock> so we just attack the whole thing
<lifeless> universe is not 'supported' -> does not mean 'universe is unused' or 'universe should be unstable'
<crimsun> lifeless: agreed. I think we need to shoot for the latter, since edgy-backports should open after freeze, and at least core-dev can upload to it directly.
<ajmitch> apt-cache -i unmet |grep Package |wc -l
<ajmitch> 213
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, a MoM-type thing with a feature like that would be nice.
<crimsun> ajmitch: let's attack that wiki-style
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: we used to have that
<ajmitch> crimsun: that got painful real fast
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, why don't we any more?
<ajmitch> wiki has been slow lately
<crimsun> ajmitch: true, better suggestion?
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: nobody organized it/got it going
<Q-FUNK> lifeless: then again, several years of helping users on #debian @ircnet shows that users do want the latest of $favorite_desktop_app without aving to upgrade everything.
<ajmitch> crimsun: revive the old merge tracker on tiber?
<LaserJock> I loved the merge tracker on tiber
<lifeless> Q-FUNK: indeed they do, and backports is the route we offer to do that.
<crimsun> ajmitch: sounds feasible
<LaserJock> much better than the current MoM
<ajmitch> something I can tackle tonight
<Fujitsu> Why'd we move off the tiber one?
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: nobody got it going again
<Q-FUNK> lifeless: so it sounds t me that we need two universes:  backports and moving target.
<Fujitsu> OK.
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: because it required more manual work to setup & keep in cync
<ajmitch> s/cync/sync/
<LaserJock> *read* lack of leadership, organization, time
<ajmitch> it was offered when edgy opened
<Q-FUNK> lifeless: what you describe is what I would call, in debian terms, unstable and backports.
<lifeless> Q-FUNK: I was trying to show that there are different populations of users. some users want different things
<LaserJock> Q-FUNK: or what we have now, universe and -backports ;-)
<lifeless> our role is to try to strike a balance between the huge space of requests and what we can deliver
<minghua> I am really not sure about the quality of ubuntu's -backports
<Q-FUNK> hm.. how hard would it be to have a builder infra that can turn universe into a perpetual universe/backports?
<LaserJock> minghua: well, that's an issue in itself
<LaserJock> Q-FUNK: why would be want to do that?
<minghua> it seems the backports admins also lacks man power to check the package carefully
<Q-FUNK> as in e.g. gnome packages within minro releeases subsequent to whatever made it to the last ubuntu being always backported.
<minghua> and my understanding is that ubuntu's -backports doesn't work like debian's backports.org
<minghua> i.e., you don't have choice between packages, you either stay at dapper or upgrade everything to dapper-backports
<Q-FUNK> at debian, releases take too long to do it, but at ubuntu, it would be easy to have e.g. gnome 2.14.x always straight to backports
<Q-FUNK> ..until edgy is released, at which point backports offers the latests 2.16.x
<azeem> Q-FUNK: gnome is in main, not universe
<Q-FUNK> azeem: hence why i said that we need two backports repo too.
<minghua> Q-FUNK's words actually raises a question: what will happen to dapper-backports once edgy is released?
<LaserJock> Ubuntu's got main restricted universe multiverse -security -updates -backports -proposed
<Q-FUNK> azeem: remember when bruce perens prosed hosting contrib and non-free completely outside debian servers?
<LaserJock> I think we have enough repos
<LaserJock> we just need to do the work
<Q-FUNK> we need to be empowered to do the work
<LaserJock> minghua: people can still upload to dapper-backports
<LaserJock> probably until it's done being supported
<minghua> LaserJock: who can upload to -backports right now?  my understanding is only core-devs?
<LaserJock> core-devs and backports team?
<LaserJock> still MOTUs
<minghua> LaserJock: I only see backport team requesting sync-like backports, not uploading
<LaserJock> +1 ;-)
<LaserJock> minghua: right, I think that might go into effect for edgy's backports or something
<Q-FUNK> yikes!  2am.
<minghua> anyway, as none here is involved in backports (and they don't seem to have a channel here), not much point to discuss too much
* Q-FUNK hits the sack
<Q-FUNK> 'night y'all!
<minghua> night, Q-FUNK
<LaserJock> minghua: they are MOTUs
<LaserJock> minghua: https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-backporters
<minghua> oh, I didn't know crimsun is in backporter team
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> he does a lot
<nixternal> he is in everything and everywhere
<LaserJock> waayy to much to be healthy I think ;-)
<nixternal> i agree
<nixternal> never seen anyone whose shrink fired them...
<nixternal> anywho, im grabbin' pizza, who's in?
<nixternal> bbiaf ;)
<Fujitsu> azeem, ping.
<azeem> pong
<Fujitsu> Note that you can specify /distros/ubuntu/sourcepackage when you're filing a bug by email, so you don't have to do it manually.
<azeem> right, I figured that out now
<azeem> the first two I filed weren't in Ubuntu, and used them as template for the others, so :)
<pygi> night
<Fujitsu> Ah, OK.
<Fujitsu> 'night, pygi.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: do you use email a lot for bugs?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, yes.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: hmm, I'll have to have you show me some time
<Fujitsu> UsingMaloneEmail on help.launchpad.net describes a bit, I believe.
<nictuku> what do you think of "widy" for the name of a software?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, did Debian tasks always appear as seperate bugs, up the top of subscribed bug listings? I don't remember those being at the top of MOTU Science's list before...
<lotusleaf> I never realised how big the universe was
<LaserJock> heh, really?
<lotusleaf> yup
<LaserJock> it's everything in Debian - Main
<lotusleaf> it's mighty big!
<LaserJock> mhm
<LaserJock> and then you think of how many people are working on it
<lupine_85> heh
<minghua> oh, no, not this stupid compression format discussion again
<keescook> anyone familiar with the buildds around?
<keescook> oh, good.  I'm not going crazy.  the version prior to my upload didn't build on sparc or ppc either.
<LaserJock> keescook: what do you need?
<keescook> LaserJock: crimsun uploaded a crash-fix for "abuse-sdl" that I made, and today I saw that the builds on sparc/ppc failed.  (my change was trivial)
<keescook> but I see that the build on the version prior failed also
<keescook> not mine: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/abuse-sdl/1:0.7.0-4ubuntu1
<keescook> mine: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/abuse-sdl/1:0.7.0-4ubuntu2
<crimsun> to note, the latest patch hasn't been integrated yet
<keescook> crimsun: yup, that's fine.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<keescook> what's the normal situation when a package doesn't build across all archs?  (i.e. should a bug have been opened against 1:0.7.0-4ubuntu1?)
<keescook> hiya bddebian
<bddebian> Hello keescook
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<bddebian> Hi Hobbsee
<LaserJock> hola Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey bddebian, LaserJock
<LaserJock> hmm, maybe I've been doing to much computer work
<LaserJock> my boss just asked me if I had pink eye
<bddebian> Doh
<zul> LaserJock: you been reading the forums again havent you? :)
<LaserJock> nope just irssi and mutt
<LaserJock> anybody know what shift does?
<LaserJock> it's in a shell script
<tseng> http://www.scit.wlv.ac.uk/cgi-bin/mansec?1+shift
<tseng> its a built-in
<tseng> you can find it in man bash as well
<LaserJock> ah, I was doing man push without luck
<minghua> LaserJock: help shift (in bash shell)
<LaserJock> thanks
<minghua> bascially it manipulates command line arguments
<minghua> and tseng is right, bash(1) man page has more information
<minghua> it's just that bash's man page is a bit daunting
<tseng>  /shift works
<zul> happy joy joy..
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> what's up, zul?
<zul> not much
<zul> ummm...who will be handling uvf requests for universe? ;)
<ajmitch> slomo,siretart,dholbach
<Toadstool> re
<bddebian> wb Toadstool
<ajmitch> hi
<Toadstool> hey ajmitch, bddebian
<crimsun> theCore: please provide a URL to the 1.15 orig.tar.gz for #62416
<crimsun> theCore: sorry
<crimsun> TheMuso: please provide a URL to the 1.15 orig.tar.gz for #62416
<Hobbsee> bug 62416
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62416 in espeak "espeak: Request review/upload of new package." [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62416
<imbrandon> ugh
<lupine_85> ?
<imbrandon> something has totaly bored my ibook
<imbrandon> borked*
<imbrandon> on thsi last update
<lupine_85> new kernel?
<imbrandon> i'm not sure what it is tbh , still trying to debug , but its kinda hard without a keyboard
<imbrandon> well my keyboard dont work in X anymore, dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg dosent show the debconf screen , eg it all go's black
<imbrandon> grrr
<imbrandon> ouch infact on reboot kdm dont even start
<imbrandon> ......
<imbrandon> ok fixed, yay \o/ for manual hacking of trhe xorg.conf
<LaserJock> hola Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> Hey LaserJock.
<imbrandon> oh wow LaserJock check this http://www.intel.com/research/dpr.htm
<imbrandon> now thats incredable, too bad i will be an old man before its mainstream
<superm1> Brandon, I uploaded a fix for both the mythtv and mythplugins package a little bit ago.  if you have a moment
<imbrandon> superm1, sure. i'll look here in a sec
<superm1> ok
<imbrandon> ajmitch, you busy ?
<ajmitch> I didn't do it!
<imbrandon> hahaha
<ajmitch> oh, sorry
<ajmitch> yes, imbrandon?
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> can you eyeball superm1's merge of mythplugins with me, there are alot of changes and i dont wanna miss anything this close to freeze
<imbrandon> if you have the time
<ajmitch> in ~6 hours, maybe
<imbrandon> i'm looking it over now too ( i dident run revu-tools on it just doing it localy )
<imbrandon> ok
<ajmitch> I'm not really available for anything indepth right now
<superm1> imbrandon, my only worry with it was if I still missed some files like you had mentioned.  I found two xml files that weren't getting added
<superm1> but beyond that I didn't see anything missed
* ajmitch just saw irc highlight in the background
<imbrandon> ajmitch, ok no worries when you have time
<imbrandon> superm1, cool, yea i just have to check this really well as there are alot of changes from 0.18 to 0.20
<imbrandon> ( mostly becouse of the ubuntu deltas from before )
<superm1> makes sense.  I figure at this point, its better to get the version in at least by the freeze, and if something is missing, make a minor version bump right by freeze time
<imbrandon> the mythtv looks ok though, i'll upload that after bit
<superm1> k
<superm1> k good
<superm1> and I think I finally understand how to increment versions :)
<imbrandon> heh yea dont increment them every time when you upload to revu
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> i ment to explain that to you better when i had time
<superm1> yea I've been gone for a bit, forgot to leave IRC when I left town too
<superm1> if you tried to ping me this weekend
<imbrandon> basicly it boils down to <package>_<upstream_version>-<debianvr_reversion><ubuntu_revision>
<imbrandon> and we only change the ubuntu ones
<imbrandon> before you bumped the debian 0.2 to 3
<imbrandon> so like a debian package of blah_1.0-1 would end up blah_1.0-1ubuntu1 then blah_1.0-1ubuntu2 etc
<superm1> now what about those cases that you are syncing from a repo like debian-multimedia, and they make a few small changes, and bump the debian version, but you already backported those changes?
<superm1> should you still only bump ubuntu version?
<imbrandon> syncs dont get version bumps, merges do
<imbrandon> and i think you mean a merge
<superm1> yes I do
<Fujitsu_> I like it how Linux XChat is still better than the Windows version, even running through Cygwin/X :)
<imbrandon> Fujitsu lol
<imbrandon> superm1, like umm.... ok give me an example
<imbrandon> oh ok ....
<superm1> well in the mythplugins package.  I had fixed some mythweb packaging related things that marillat didn't have right.  he fixed it in a later version of his, but I already had it covered
<superm1> so should I have adopted his new version number for the debian version?
<imbrandon> so you mean if we have blah_1.0-1ubuntu3 and it has changes , then debian makes blah_1.0-2 and incorperates those changes ?
<superm1> right
<imbrandon> then we just sync , overiding our changes and blah_1.0-2 gos into the archive
<imbrandon> assuming everething was covered, if they only incorperated part of it then we
<superm1> have to put our patches back on
<superm1> that are missed, irght?
<imbrandon> make blah_1.0-2ubuntu1 with the remaining changes
<Fujitsu> Then we merge, and keep the delta. Yay, more Ubuntu delta. What fun.
<imbrandon> superm1, right
<superm1> okay that makes a lot more sense then.
<imbrandon> yea the versioning can be hell if you dont understand it , but once you catch on its easy ( assuming everyone plays by the rules )
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, which they often don't, although it's generally a mistake.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: congratulations - uploaded all your new merges yet?
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, yea ;) yay for epocs
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, thanks :)
<Fujitsu> 4 or so, I think.
<superm1> well and it clearly starts to become a bit messy if the maintainer doesn't watch closely at what changes between upstream patches and their own
<imbrandon> oh yea Fujitsu congrats man ;)
<Fujitsu> superm1, they have to, or things explode :)
<Fujitsu> Oh yes, that reminds me...
<crimsun> I look forward to not having to ACK every single thing coming through u-u-s
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, Hobbsee says you have a machine that you let MOTUs build on...
<Hobbsee> crimsun: *grin*
<Hobbsee> crimsun: yeah
<Fujitsu> Yeah, thanks for all the sponsorships in the past, crimsun :) They're much appreciated.
<crimsun> np
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, yea select friends, not nessesarly MOTU's ;) want access ?
<Fujitsu> Ah, if you want to give it to me, yes please :)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: I'm not your friend? :)
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, sure, give me a littlebit to finish up some stuff
<imbrandon> ajmitch, haha you never asked for access ;)
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, take your time, I'm in no big rush.
<Hobbsee> he doesnt need access :P
<ajmitch> imbrandon: probably since I have a fast box anyway - just no ppc to build on
<imbrandon> yea i need to get a ppc box setup , i promised Seveas i would set one up for him
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, you want a x86 account or x86_64 ?
<ajmitch> imbrandon: if you or anyone can provide one for MOTUs to build on, it'd be great
<ajmitch> I have x86 & amd64 already at home
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, good question...
<crimsun> ppc would be most appreciated.
* ajmitch was lookign for a cheap mac mini or similar for building on
<imbrandon> ajmitch, yea i will likely open up a "small" build farm shortly for motu's once i find a good way to secure it so its semi automated accounts with ubuntu-dev access etc
<Fujitsu> I've got an OKish x86, so I might grab x86_64, if you please.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, ok
<ajmitch> I've opened my amd64 box up to others in the past if they need access
<imbrandon> i just picked up 2 ppc 400mhz boxes with 256mb ram i plan to do it with, and i have 2 vm's on the amd64 ( that only Seveas takes advantage of atm )
<ajmitch> imbrandon: xen ftw
<imbrandon> yea i'd like to find a way to make the accounts semi automated etc
<imbrandon> yea the amd64 is a a xen setup , it WAS vmware
<ajmitch> there's a 400MHz ppc at home, with 512MB RAM
<ajmitch> but it gets used for OSX all the time
<ajmitch> so I can't reboot it for building
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, :(
<imbrandon> heh i got these from a guy at the lug for 25$ each
<ajmitch> yeah, this is ex-university
<imbrandon> they dident have monitors or hdd's but i threw a cheap 20 gig in each , probably will ahve to up that if i give semi-public access
<imbrandon> but headless should be fine
<ajmitch> headless is preferable
<ajmitch> less things to go wrong :)
<imbrandon> superm1, one thing i did notice ( havent looked 100% is your changelog entries are past 80 chars long ) not a big deal, just fyi
<imbrandon> ajmitch, exactly
* LaserJock thinks of "The headless Pbuilder"
<imbrandon> hahaha
<superm1> so they should be less then 80 chars most the time then?
<Fujitsu> superm1, which?
<imbrandon> yea just wrap them to the next line if needed with 4 spaces indent
<superm1> changelog entries
<superm1> k
<imbrandon> like i said not a real big deal but its nice for those on 80x25
<superm1> I work off a 1600x1200 display on my thinkpad, so I'm used to long lines for things in nano :)
* imbrandon uses a high res also , but not everyone can or does ;)
<superm1> hehe
* ajmitch uses high-res, but doesn't maximise all the windows
<imbrandon> yea thats why i use a high res is to get more windows on the screen(s) at once
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> not nessessarly more from each window
<imbrandon> i want to konw how some do those consoles ON the desktop like i see in some screenshots
<imbrandon> like as if the console was the wallpaper
<superm1> well you can run some apps as a root window
<superm1> xscreensaver comes to mind
* LaserJock has a Gentoo flashback
<imbrandon> that would just rock for irssi
<imbrandon> LaserJock, hahaha
<superm1> I think I actually did that once just to show someone what it was like to have a cool screensaver as a background in fluxbox once, and then never used it again
<imbrandon> yea i did the screensaver thing when i tried xgl
<imbrandon> but never used it past that
<superm1> well if you really wanted to just have a terminal on bottom, you probably could hack together a devilspie script to guarantee its always below other windows and it doesn't show up in the task list
<imbrandon> ;)
<jldugger> there's no "always on bottom" option? ;)
<imbrandon> heya jldugger fancy seeing you here ;)
<jldugger> hey
<jldugger> im digging down into my laptop
<imbrandon> cool
<jldugger> and nobody on #ubuntu-laptop is alive
<jldugger> so how high up on the motu totem pole are you, that people are asking you to look at their packages? ;)
<imbrandon> heya i was gonan ask the guys too ( next meeting i made it to ) about a ubuntu loco team for us, i kinda been piecing togather the stuff for it
<ajmitch> jldugger: he's *beyond* motu
<imbrandon> jldugger, i'm core-dev now ;) past motu per se lol
<ajmitch> we all sit at his feet & bask in his wisdom now
<crimsun> (no, MOTU with main privs)
<jldugger> does that mean you work for canonical, or just motu with MOAR POWAR?
<lifeless> all haill imbrandon
<imbrandon> hahahah ajmitch /me baskes in ajmitch and crimsun's dietyness
<LaserJock> teach me, oh wise one
<lifeless> jldugger: working for canonical and being core-dev/moru are orthogonal
<crimsun> no, I'm basking in bddebian's and LaserJock's
<LaserJock> bah
<imbrandon> jldugger, MOTU with "moar powar" hehe
<ajmitch> crimsun: the deity & raging MOTU-holic?
<crimsun> aye
<imbrandon> basicly instead of breaking 50% of peoples systems i can brake them all
<LaserJock> lol
<ajmitch> lifeless: are you doing more QA stuff yet?
<LaserJock> and in mor interesting ways
<imbrandon> LaserJock, yea ;)
<lifeless> ajmitch: some
* ajmitch has plans to break upstart
<ajmitch> but don't let keybuk hear that
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> jldugger, havin laptop probs ?
<jldugger> more like tablet problems
<imbrandon> ahh
<jldugger> its so wierd
<jldugger> when i convert it to tablet mode
<jldugger> nothing happens
<jldugger> not even an acpi event goes into the log
<jldugger> i open it back up and i get one
<imbrandon> oh wow, sounds harwareish
<imbrandon> erm
<jldugger> i can close the lid the regular way
<imbrandon> that is strange
<jldugger> does whatever you set it up to
<jldugger> i was really hoping i could hack up lid.sh, but the events never come in
<imbrandon> yea
<jldugger> i wonder how windows does it
<imbrandon> does it do anything else like a keyevent or ANYTHING ?
<jldugger> i forgot how to check keyevern
<jldugger> event
<jldugger> but i got nvidia binary drivers to suspend
<imbrandon> heh lucky
<jldugger> just followed the directions
<jldugger> on the wiki
<jldugger> err
<jldugger> hibernate
<jldugger> not suspend
<jldugger> suspend is a pile of poo anyways
<imbrandon> run xev and see if it outputs anything when you
<imbrandon> goto tablet mode by some weird chance
<jldugger> nothing on xev that i can tell
<imbrandon> hum
<jldugger> what i was hoping to do was tie the conversion to a xrandr
<imbrandon> and rotate the screen ?
<imbrandon> heh
<jldugger> pretty important unless you want to draw upside down
<imbrandon> true
<imbrandon> with all the "new crack" alien posts about xen and oo.o i'm suprised no one has tried a 2.8 kernel
* LaserJock obviously doesn't know how to make shell scripts
<ajmitch> imbrandon: 2.8?
<imbrandon> erm 2.7 working branch stuff
<jldugger> what?
<ajmitch> there is a 2.7 branch?
<jldugger> this is news
<imbrandon> should be , i thought
<ajmitch> nope
<ajmitch> they don't work that way anymore
<imbrandon> well that would be why there is no new crack stuff
<imbrandon> ahh shows how much i follow the kernel dev
<jldugger> there is
<jldugger> tickless kernel
<jldugger> they just use like -mm branch now
<imbrandon> ah so its not an odd even thing anymore? lol
<imbrandon> its been a while since i touched kernel source
* imbrandon waits for LaserJock to have another gentoo flashback
<jldugger> kerneltrap had a excerpt from lkml about  how to proceed
<LaserJock> imbrandon: sorry, fighting with a simple shell script
<imbrandon> heh
<jldugger> http://kerneltrap.org/node/7164
<imbrandon> ahh i have no desire to , was just a passing thought
<imbrandon> i try not to rool my own unless there is an ABSOLUTE need to
<imbrandon> s/rool/roll/
<jldugger> its still fun to read kernel trap and see what's going on
<imbrandon> i leave that to the deities like zul and such
<LaserJock> grrr, I'm really trying not to use python
<jldugger> man, i hope all these people automatically subscribed to my wiki page don't mind all these edits to it
<imbrandon> most of the time they filter on words/pages and are subscribed to them all but on that note you can tick the box that says "trivial change" and it wont email anyone
<jldugger> the other thing i'll probably have to file / find bugs about is using the pen as a mouse
<imbrandon> ;)
<jldugger> cuz theres no way i can hack that up on my own
<jldugger> but getting the wiki page done and nvida+suspend is a good nights work
<imbrandon> ;)
<jldugger> i guess to bring this closer to motu topic, what's the policy on open source software written in a language that doesn't have an open source compiler yet?
<joejaxx> imbrandon: how do i list all the current process along with their pid's other than top
<jldugger> ps aux
<imbrandon> jldugger, i'm looking at getting ubuntu-kc loco team togather to for all us ubuntu peeps from kclug ( and some from ks too htat arent in kclug have already contacted me )
<imbrandon> joejaxx, ps ax
<imbrandon> or ps aux
<imbrandon> heh
<jldugger> or just dig through /proc ;)
<imbrandon> jldugger, well it would be kinda hard to bootstrap i source package into the archive without a compiler
<jldugger> imbrandon, interesting, but are there many ubuntu-kc people?
<imbrandon> jldugger, 3 of us so far, but i havent asked the lug yet
<jldugger> i wonder if i count as KC
<jldugger> its like a 2 hour drive from here
<imbrandon> i kinda wanted to make it a subset of the current kclug incorerating other people that arent part of the lug ( nor wanna be )
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> crweb is in IL lol
<jldugger> yes
<jldugger> and you're counting him?
<imbrandon> soo i think 2 hours is ok ;)
<imbrandon> no
<imbrandon> i meant he is part of kclug and in IL
<jldugger> i have no idea why he's in kclug
<imbrandon> lol me either, i think he is lonely most of the time, and thats not a bad thing, he seems harmless
<imbrandon> and jbroudhard is in st joe ( 1 hour away ) soooo , maybe ubuntu-midwest ;)
<LaserJock> imbrandon: can I come? ;-)
<jldugger> heh
<imbrandon> heh
<jldugger> cowboyntu
<imbrandon> hahahaha
<imbrandon> LaserJock, well that would make it ubuntu-usa
<imbrandon> sides LaserJocki think the colorado loco team is closer to you ;)
<LaserJock> there's a Utah one
<LaserJock> and a California one too
<imbrandon> LaserJock, you been makin it to the rlug's ?
<LaserJock> I made 1
<imbrandon> ;)
<LaserJock> then missed 2 I think
<imbrandon> hehe
<LaserJock> they keep doing them on bad days
<imbrandon> yea that was my problem when i was in reno
<LaserJock> I was in Mt. View giving a presentation at Ubucon for one
<LaserJock> so I don't feel bad
<imbrandon> the problem i have in KC is its WAY down town
<imbrandon> and normaly i dont have a ride ( as i dont drive )
<imbrandon> soooo
<lotusleaf> cars are evil
<LaserJock> I drive everywhere
<imbrandon> heh my last one was, well it got me lots of speeding tickets
<imbrandon> so i sold it and got a motorcycle, but that dosent work well in KC, did in NV
<imbrandon> KC weather is too unpredictable
<lotusleaf> if you slide an F in between the K and C it's lunch
<imbrandon> ( plus my lic is revolked atm for speeding )
<imbrandon> soooo
<imbrandon> shhh dont tell anyone ;)
<imbrandon> jldugger, going for membership ? or just keeping your wiki updated ?
<ajmitch> alright..
* ajmitch needs a drink now
* lotusleaf hands ajmitch whipped guacamole, chilled, with habanero juice
<ajmitch> I'll pass on that thanks
* lotusleaf flaps arms in feather suit
<ajmitch> strange..
<lotusleaf> ajmitch: like Jim Morrison said, people are strange
<imbrandon> hum the more i look at this , this might work out good
<imbrandon> ( building a MOTU farm )
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: just teach them about debsign -r
<imbrandon> oh definately
<imbrandon> ;)
<Hobbsee> :P
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: oh, that's cool
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: indeed :)
<imbrandon> i'm wondering how much of it will be incorperated into personal repos on LP though
<imbrandon> when/if that ever comes to be
<ajmitch> imbrandon: nearly all of that, and REVU functionality as well
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: yes, it's good not having your key on other  people's computers, isn't it? ;)
<imbrandon> i liked the idea of sf.net build farms and suse build farms
<imbrandon> seems alot of compnies are doing it
<Hobbsee> :P at ajmitch
<Hobbsee> just wait till i see you next...
<ajmitch> and what will you do? :)
<imbrandon> tickle you with a pointy stick
<Hobbsee> ajmitch knows perfectly well what i'll do to him
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: i dont need to use my stick.  i can just tickle him so that he glares at me :P
<ajmitch> stamp her foot & put hands on hips with an angry glare? ;)
<imbrandon> lol
<Hobbsee> no, and i dont think you ever saw that
* Hobbsee lunches
<ajmitch> lunch? it's 4pm!
<Hobbsee> and?
<ajmitch> slacker
<jldugger> imbrandon, i donno. at the moment, i figure i'll move up the tree as I need to. there's plenty one can do without being approved
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> oh jez, suse makes the deb but provides the source in an rpm
<imbrandon> *rolls eyes*
* minghua wonders if SUSE's debs are made by dpkg or not
<lfittl> morning
<imbrandon> heya lfittl
<lfittl> hey imbrandon
<imbrandon> minghua, http://software.opensuse.org/download/openSUSE:/Tools/xUbuntu_6.06/
<imbrandon> thats what i was talking about ^^
<siretart> LaserJock: ajmitch: right, I've now moved in, and now I'm around way more often. I'm not that active in this channel, but I'm available
<ajmitch> hey siretart
<LaserJock> siretart: hi!
<imbrandon> heya siretart
<siretart> there is a deadline for a scientific paper this friday, this has priority, but I'm here
<siretart> huhu ajmitch, LaserJock, morning imbrandon
<ajmitch> siretart: I'll probably have a pile of universe freeze exceptions for you, since I won't get them done by thursday
<siretart> (its 8:11am for me now)
<ajmitch> siretart: depends on how willing you are to trust some of us MOTUs :)
<imbrandon> amsterdam times ;)
<siretart> ajmitch: I myself have one. FAI. Thomas Lange (debian maintainer and upstream) suggests to have fai 3.0 in edgy, since it may be easier to get running
<minghua> imbrandon: there is "# Automatically added by dh_python" in the postinst", so looks like the .deb is built quite professionally
<siretart> but he won't release it before weekend
<minghua> hi siretart
<siretart> huhu minghua
<minghua> imbrandon: but it seems there is no source for osc
<minghua> (the srpm is for kiwi, which has binary rpm packages, but no debs)
<imbrandon> yea i noticed
<imbrandon> no source, no install
<imbrandon> heh
* ajmitch has a kiwi update here to fix up & get in
<imbrandon> but i DID finaly find where they his the SaX2 branch
<imbrandon> https://svn.berlios.de/svnroot/repos/sax/sax-head
<Q-FUNK> http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=linux-hotplug-devel&m=115926521015750&w=2
<Q-FUNK> prety neat
<Q-FUNK> could work well in LTSP
<LaserJock> Q-FUNK: for supporting local devices?
<joejaxx> does anyone know how much space it whould take to download all of the main and restricted repos?
<LaserJock> a fair amout
<LaserJock> I can't remember
<LaserJock> all archs and source too?
<Q-FUNK> LaserJock: mostly that it's a super tiny replacement for udev, which would be perfect on thin clients with low resources.
<joejaxx> uh
<joejaxx> LaserJock: i guess
<LaserJock> Q-FUNK: I think the edgy LTSP will have that
<LaserJock> not that specifically
<joejaxx> LaserJock: yes i whould include all archs and source
<LaserJock> but those features
<LaserJock> joejaxx: it's proably less than 10 GB
<joejaxx> LaserJock: wow really?
<LaserJock> for Main
<joejaxx> how much whould universe and multiverse taken up
<LaserJock> only 4,000 packages
<joejaxx> LaserJock: what about restricted though
<LaserJock> restricted doesn't have much in it
<joejaxx> ah
<joejaxx> so now i need to know how much universe and multi verse whould take up
<LaserJock> raphink: ping?
<LaserJock> joejaxx: significantly more then Main ;-)
<joejaxx> LaserJock: interesting
<joejaxx> LaserJock: what whould you said whould be ample enought bandwidth for a mirror of main and restricted
<joejaxx> enough*
<LaserJock> really not sure
<joejaxx> oh ok
<LaserJock> depends on how much traffic you get
<joejaxx> oh ok
<joejaxx> LaserJock: thank you for the information :)
<ajmitch> dholbach!
<dholbach> good morning - HAPPY HUG DAY!
<dholbach> hey ajmitch
<LaserJock> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hi LaserJock
<ajmitch> dholbach: it ought to be another REVU day, imho
<dholbach> absolutely
<dholbach> nobody stepped up to write an announcement :-(
<dholbach> we agreed on it before
<ajmitch> sorry about that
<dholbach> no - I didn't mean to blame oyu
<LaserJock> sure ;-)
<lfittl> morning dholbach :)
<imbrandon> heya dholbach
<imbrandon> hug day today ?
<dholbach> yeah
<imbrandon> cool
<dholbach> what do we do about REVUing?
<dholbach> tomorrow will be universe freeze
<imbrandon> i've been revuing as i have time
<imbrandon> and afaik all the active motus in here have been
<imbrandon> even without a "set day"
<imbrandon> heh
* ajmitch still has a pile of packages to get into edgy that won't make it by freeze day
<dholbach> ok, what I suggest now is: if there are easy fixes to do, attach a debdiff to fix them an do it
<dholbach> it doesn't make sense to go through n iterations at this point
<imbrandon> yea
<dholbach> if the package maintainer disagrees, he can still roll back
<ajmitch> dholbach: will you still consider new packages after the freeze?
<dholbach> i wouldn't like that - because I already discussed it with Matt
<ajmitch> hm
<dholbach> UniverseFreeze is much later than UpstreamVersionFreeze this time
<dholbach> you can try to talk to him
* ajmitch will have to drop a couple of things then
<dholbach> I will do UVF exceptions, yes - but for NEW packages - talk to him instead
<ajmitch> some xen-related stuff I'm doing, and a couple of others from debian
<dholbach> talk to Matt :/
<dholbach> you might not have to drop it yet
* ajmitch also has some stuff in NEW that's been stalled there
<dholbach> me too
<imbrandon> yea NEW is getting backed up
<dholbach> I hope that stuff gets processed
<dholbach> everybody's busy with beta
<ajmitch> and another few authentication-related packages I didn't get round to tidying up & uploading
* ajmitch sighs
<ajmitch> too many loose ends I haven't tidied
<imbrandon> ajmitch, anything i can help with ?
<ajmitch> I'd have to dig through it & see
<imbrandon> kk well if you run accross soemting lemme know
<ajmitch> & it's usually nothing major to do, the time it takes for me to grab it all, I'd be able to update it
* ajmitch has packages for things like gtickets for handling kerberos tickets
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> maybe I can stick it on revu now
<ajmitch> hm, empty debian/copyright, I didn't fill that one in
<LaserJock> bah, ubuntu-archive won't mind ;-)
<imbrandon> lol
* ajmitch adds GPL boilerplate
<LaserJock> tell them you'll do it on the next upload ;-)
<imbrandon> hahah
* LaserJock will never make core-dev
<superm1> hey guys, I just debianized another package in hopes of fitting it in before the freeze tomorrow.  I threw up "backstep"
<imbrandon> bah compiling suse stuff on ubuntnu just plain sucks /me gives up on sax untill edgy+1
<imbrandon> the deps are all nuts
<ajmitch> ok, gktools updated
* ajmitch hasn't checked the package for months
<ajmitch> so pick over it on REVU :)
<imbrandon> anyone have some sugestions about what i can do with bug 59534  ( my main problem is libvisual-0.4-plugins isnt in main )
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 59534 in libvisual "Libvisual autoinstall by demand" [Low,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/59534
<ajmitch> I have no idea how rough it still is :)
<imbrandon> hum i guess a review and MIR would be the best way
<ajmitch> probably
<ajmitch> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3259
<ajmitch> pick that over, I have to head out in ~10 minutes
<imbrandon> kk
<ajmitch> no idea if it still builds ;)
<imbrandon> i can run revu-tools now , hehe
<ajmitch> thanks
<joejaxx> does anyone know why webmin was removed?
<imbrandon> np, umm why dosent revu just nuke the changes file instead of making it unreadable
<imbrandon> joejaxx, webmin is evil, they ignore cve stuff
<imbrandon> its in the blacklist sees , qoute :
<joejaxx> imbrandon: ?
<imbrandon> # mdz, 2004-06-14: upstream deliberately obfuscates vulnerabilities
<imbrandon> # mdz, 2004-06-20: CAN-2002-0757, CAN-2003-0101, SNS 74, SNS 75
<imbrandon> webmin
<imbrandon> ^^ from the blacklist
<imbrandon> this a no no
<joejaxx> oh wow
<Q-FUNK> would anybody know when janimo is online usually?
<imbrandon> ajmitch, looks to ftbs , messed up desktop file?
<imbrandon> desktop-file-install created an invalid desktop file!
<imbrandon> make[3] : *** [install-data-local]  Error 1
<ajmitch> how special
<ajmitch> fedora crap, I'm sure :)
<imbrandon> yup
<imbrandon> something about X-Fedora
<imbrandon> not sure
<ajmitch> it hates X-Fedora & Application
<ajmitch> will patch that
<imbrandon> looks liek the "actual" build went fine though
* ajmitch shrugs
<ajmitch> I'll sort it later
<imbrandon> want me just to remove those two from the rules ?
<imbrandon> e.g.
<imbrandon> 		--add-category X-Fedora \
<imbrandon>                 --add-category=Application \
<imbrandon> oh yea now that Fujitsu is a MOTU he can revu ;) hahaha
* imbrandon jabs Fujitsu ;)
<Fujitsu> Oh $*#$ :P
<LaserJock> imbrandon: shouldn't you be asleep?
* Fujitsu stabs Hobbsee with his long pointy stick of I'm-a-MOTU-too-DOOM!
<Fujitsu> Hi imbrandon, LaserJock.
<imbrandon> LaserJock, probably, but i got up late today
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: fix universe, kthnksbye!
<Hobbsee> and it's MY POINTY STICK!
<Fujitsu> Long done, Hobbsee.
<imbrandon> hahaha
<Fujitsu> Universe is absolute perfect in every single way.
<Fujitsu> Not a single flaw.
<Fujitsu> *absolutely
* LaserJock looks around and flicks an electron
<imbrandon> heh
<Fujitsu> :O
* Fujitsu slaps away LaserJock! Noooooo.
<imbrandon> LaserJock, question is shouldnt /you/ too ;)
<imbrandon> ( sleep )
<LaserJock> imbrandon: yes, but you are +2 hrs
<Fujitsu> I've only made 4 uploads today :(
<Fujitsu> But I have been at school.
<imbrandon> well i was/am glad to see someone else from my lug getting into the ubuntu community other than just installing it ;)
<Fujitsu> Yay :)
<Fujitsu> Who?
<imbrandon> jldugger ^^
<Fujitsu> Aha, I saw him on earlier :)
<imbrandon> most of the lug /uses/ ubuntu but very few participate in the community much
<imbrandon> we have like one token gentoo guy and one token slack guy , all the rest use ubuntu or kubuntu
<Fujitsu> 'tis the same worldwide, I'd presume. If everybody participated in the community, Freenode would have exploded years ago :P
<imbrandon> haha
<imbrandon> well not just irc, email, forums , etc etc etc
<imbrandon> i can count the messages on our ML on my hands this last month hehe
<imbrandon> but we have something like 40 members
<imbrandon> or thereabouts
<LaserJock> hmm, anybody use mini-dinstall here?
<imbrandon> woot i'm a level 38 idler
<imbrandon> heh
<lotusleaf> imbrandon: crawl has more of a challenge ;)
<imbrandon> [02:37]  <NewdleBot> imbrandon, the Digital_KDE_Blasphmey, has attained level 38! Next level in 1 day, 22:54:30.
<imbrandon> crawl ?
<lotusleaf> !crawl
<ubotu> crawl: Dungeon Crawl, a text-based roguelike game. In component universe, is optional. Version 1:4.0.0beta26-7 (dapper), package size 619 kB, installed size 1512 kB
<lotusleaf> imbrandon: the most addictive game in the world
<imbrandon> heh idlerpg i dont have to do anything though
<imbrandon> my kinda game
<lotusleaf> well, true. ;)
<Fujitsu> O_o
<LaserJock> hmm, somebody must be looking at TeX
<Fujitsu> I don't see changelog entries like this often:
<Fujitsu>   * Sync with Ubuntu.
<Fujitsu> (in Debian)
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, why?
<LaserJock> I've seen a few
<Q-FUNK> *blink*
<LaserJock> my email has all of a sudden gotten a few tex emails
<LaserJock> hmm, that's a rather stupid sentence
<Fujitsu> Not really, it's a little odd, but not too bad.
<Fujitsu> I uploaded a galeon merge about 7 hours ago... It appeared on my +packages, but the version doesn't exist yet, it gives a 404.
<Fujitsu> Wow, yeah... 10 TeX emails.
<Fujitsu> 11, then.
* crimsun pokes Fujitsu 
<Fujitsu> Hi crimsun.
<crimsun> thanks for clarifying 62422
* Fujitsu unpoke.
<Fujitsu> *unpokes.
<Fujitsu> Yes, oops. Sorry.
<Fujitsu> I think I must have copied the description from the mpd one, and changed all the details except the name.
<Fujitsu> Now I see why you suggested I grab it from experimental :)
<Fujitsu> O_o
<Fujitsu> Another 10 or so closings of TeX bugs.
<Fujitsu> Somebody has been having fun...
<LaserJock> did Debian just upload new TeX?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, looks like it... I got like 30 emails about it to -science...
<LaserJock> mhm
<Fujitsu> We're about to get growled at by them, aren't we?
<LaserJock> not if we are prompt about it I don't think
<LaserJock> i.e. we should look into it before edgy is released
<Fujitsu> But that'll mean a UVFe...
<LaserJock> not necessarily
<LaserJock> if they just bumped the Debian revision
<Fujitsu> True..
* Fujitsu checks.
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> 3.0-22 with a high importance
<LaserJock> for tetex-base
<Fujitsu> There's also tex-common yesterday, new upstream.
<Fujitsu> (it's native)
<Fujitsu> 0.29 -> 0.30.
<crimsun> Fujitsu: (btw, you can mark that one in progress since you've already got a source package ready to upload, or you can just upload and mark it fix committed)
<Fujitsu> crimsun, true, I shall upload it, but I couldn't last night :P
<Fujitsu> And another 8 or so mails...
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, ping.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, pong
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, did you get around to creating me an account?
<crimsun> and did you get me a pony?
<imbrandon> oh , no i got sidetracked with some amarok bugs, will do now
<Fujitsu> Ah, thanks.
<imbrandon> crimsun, no pony for you
<imbrandon> ;)
<crimsun> bah
* Fujitsu hands crimsun a pony, for all his sponsorships. :P
<imbrandon> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/files/no-pony-for-you.jpg
<Fujitsu> Do packages often vanish into the Soyuzian void?
<crimsun> what sort of packages?
<Fujitsu> I uploaded galeon, it appeared on my +packages about 7 hours ago, but the new version is still yet to be seen.
<crimsun> you'll get two separate ACCEPT e-mails, actually
<crimsun> the first is for the upload, the second is for the source
<Fujitsu> crimsun, noted, and one to the list, I think I got both, but I'll check.
<crimsun> (since the queue is in manual processing mode)
<Fujitsu> Ah, so there's no option for just main freezing at this time?
<crimsun> not afaict
<Fujitsu> I did note that the first ACCEPT email said it was waiting distro manager approval, but I presumed it always did that, and was automagic.
<Fujitsu> And the new galeon isn't in any of the queues... Should it be?
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: How did the meeting go this morning?
<imbrandon> not till the source is accepted afaik
<Fujitsu> TheMuso, OK :)
<TheMuso> Congratulations then!
<crimsun>     galeon | 2.0.2-1ubuntu1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com edgy/universe Packages
<crimsun>     galeon | 2.0.2-1ubuntu1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com edgy/universe Sources
<Fujitsu> Thanks :)
<imbrandon> TheMuso, him and cbx33 got in ;)
<Fujitsu> Nope -2ubuntu1 is mine.
<TheMuso> Cool.
<Fujitsu> (although that's also mine, it's an old one)
<crimsun> are you using dput?
<Fujitsu> Yes.
<crimsun> hmm, you already got the ACCEPTs
<Fujitsu> I can't see the second one here.
<crimsun> oh, you just got one accept?
<Fujitsu> Yes.
<crimsun> ah, then it hasn't been source accepted yet
<Fujitsu> OK.
<Fujitsu> It'd be nice if it appeared somewhere.
<Fujitsu> Thanks for explaining that.
<crimsun> once it's source accepted, it'll appear on edgy-changes
<Fujitsu> Noted.
<Fujitsu> Are there normally two emails, or just because it's frozen?
<crimsun> the latter
<Fujitsu> OK.
<crimsun> if the source package name already exists doesn't generate any new binary packages, you'll get the one source accept
<crimsun> exists and ^
<Fujitsu> Yup, that's what I thought.
<imbrandon> LaserJock, here is what you need for your next notebook http://static2.instructables.com/pub/FL7/YG8X/FL7YG8XV3WEP27T6EB.medium.jpg
<LaserJock> imbrandon: oh, that is impressive
<Fujitsu> Hah.
<jblack> Dear santa: All I want for christmas is my two front teeth and for the mythtv pacakges to not be 1/2 0.20 and 1/2 0.18. :)
<Fujitsu> Is there a REVU admin around?
<Fujitsu> Or somebody who can obliterate my accidental galeon upload from this morning?
<crimsun> jblack: should be fixed next week
<imbrandon> jblack, i'm working on the other half right now
<Fujitsu> Because I forgot dput was defaulting to REVU for my first upload >_>
<jblack> imbrandon: You rock.
<crimsun> Fujitsu: hah, that was the dput question ;)
<imbrandon> should be done in the next day or two like crimsun said
<Fujitsu> crimsun, aha.
<Fujitsu> Hm
* Fujitsu is bored.
<Fujitsu> Any MOTU tasks anybody can suggest?
<jblack> imbrandon: Your work has made a change in my day to day life.
<crimsun> you probably shouldn't ask that within reading distance of LaserJock, bddebian, or Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> fix the archive.
<Hobbsee> write my assignment for me
* Fujitsu runs away, then.
<Hobbsee> there's a start.
<jblack> within two days of 0.20 I put my phone company and satellite dish company that their services were no longer required. :)
<crimsun> (toldya)
<jblack> (of me trying 0.20).
<Hobbsee> :P
<Fujitsu> What a MOTUish task the latter of those is, Hobbsee.
<imbrandon> heh
<Hobbsee> hehe
<jblack> Thats like $80 a month you're saving me. That's a lot for someone between jobs. :)
<Hobbsee> it's only part of my uni degree, yes
<Fujitsu> Aw, why are there no new members of motu on LP? It's got a cool emblem :'(
<Fujitsu> Ah, so /that's/ where my mpd upload went. I left out `ubuntu' from the command-line as well. Fortunately, I've changed the default now :)
* Fujitsu kicks self a bit.
<crimsun> it's actually safer initially to set the default to some nonsense one
<imbrandon> like local
<imbrandon> ;)
<crimsun> that way you /have/ to type 'dput ubuntu ..'
<Fujitsu> Brb,
<cbx33> mornin all
<imbrandon> heya cbx33
<imbrandon> contrats btw
<cbx33> thank you
<imbrandon> congrats*
<cbx33> you know I didn't even see that was missplet
<cbx33> must be tired
<cbx33> s/missplet/misspelt
<LaserJock> looked good to me too :/
<Fujitsu> Hi ogra.
* jblack waves to ogra
<ogra> hey
<cbx33> boo ogra
* Hobbsee attacks ogra with a feather duster
* Fujitsu uploads a new version of Hobbsee, without the sticks and feather dusters.
<Hobbsee> hah
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: just as long as it's not a new upstream release
<LaserJock> we only want a patched Hobbsee
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, she's officially supported?
<LaserJock> no telling what havok a new upstream release might do
<LaserJock> oh yeah
<crimsun> I think I'm going to keep mum on those ramifications
<LaserJock> crimsun: what are you doing up?
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: and how would a patched Hobbsee work?
<crimsun> huh? I'm always awake at this hour
<LaserJock> really?
<crimsun> (besides, I need to convert this assignment to Python from Java)  Yeah.
<TheMuso> crimsun: Re espeak: http://www.themuso.id.au/ubuntu/espeak_1.15.orig.tar.gz
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: bionic woman
<crimsun> TheMuso: excellent, thank you
<TheMuso> np
<Fujitsu> crimsun.... TO Java!/
<Fujitsu> *!?
<crimsun> Fujitsu: (I think you misparsed that)
<LaserJock> crimsun: dude, you seriously need a break
<Fujitsu> Oops.
<Fujitsu> True.
<crimsun> remember, I don't need more insanity
<Fujitsu> Come on crimsun, take a break :)
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: yes, well, obviously...
<cbx33> crimsun: do you rememebr you helped me out a little while back when my usb-audio  midi device was being cpicked up as hw0
<crimsun> cbx33: vaguely, hopefully you're not offended if I don't say it's crystal-clear
<cbx33> i recently setup a new machine .... can you remember what we did?
<cbx33> heheh np
<crimsun> cbx33: what was the original issue?
<cbx33> when I boot with my USB midi box plugged in
<cbx33> it steals hw0
<cbx33> so JACK throws a fit
<crimsun> oh, this must be a dapper box
<cbx33> if I plug it in after booted up
<cbx33> it's fine
<cbx33> yes it is
<cbx33> will hopefully be edgy soon
<crimsun> ok, I 'fixed' that in #31109, #46996, and #46998 by placing the following in /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base:
<crimsun> options snd-usb-audio index=-2
<cbx33> thank
<crimsun> np
<cbx33> crimsun: on the ubuntustudio.com setup page....they have it written as  options snd-usb-audio index=1 which didnt work, should I notify them?
<crimsun> well, you should tell them this:
<crimsun> index=1 is valid only if you also explicitly specify index=0 for another card (via an options line)
<LaserJock> btw, they are going to start working on mubuntu
<cbx33> ah i see
<cbx33> LaserJock: cool
<Hobbsee> cbx33: congratulations
<Hobbsee> cbx33: fix all of universe with Fujitsu.  kthnksbye!
<cbx33> thanks Hobbsee
<LaserJock> I was talking to them about getting metapackages in Universe
<Fujitsu> Mubuntu?
<cbx33> LaserJock: it's funny I had actually written a short spec about meta packages for an ubuntustudio subdistro
<cbx33> and a few weeks later mubuntu popped up
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: multimedia ubuntu
<TheMuso> cbx33: Where can one find out more about mubuntu?
<LaserJock> well, one of the guys was wanting to write an Automatix script to do it
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, you said the forbidden.
<LaserJock> mhm
<cbx33> TheMuso: I don;t know
<LaserJock> so I helped straighten some things out
<Fujitsu> That's just wrong wrong wrong... And I hope they do eventually get their metapackages in.
<Fujitsu> Good, good.
<cbx33> I just hope it's going to include things like ardour
<LaserJock> TheMuso: you could ask on #ubuntu-studio I think
<LaserJock> the question was how to handle Multiverse packages
<LaserJock> so I suggested making mubuntu-desktop and also mubuntu-multiverse metapackages
<cbx33> LaserJock: good plan
<Fujitsu> Yeah.
<Fujitsu> What multiverse stuff do they use?
<LaserJock> lame
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Thanks.
<LaserJock> anyway, I encouraged them to get things into Universe/Multiverse and go the packaging route as opposed to the Automatix route
<LaserJock> so hopefully something will come of it
<cbx33> LaserJock: ++
<cbx33> if not, I may pick up the interest ;)
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, I hope you succeed. The less Automatix in the world, the better.
<LaserJock> dolson is a cool dude and knows how to package
<LaserJock> so I think it'll work out
<TheMuso> The biggest problem with something like mubuntu for audio etc is a realtime kernel.
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> but then I havn't had a problem with it
<TheMuso> I have decided that when I get things set up here, I will be using another distro for audio stuff, for a few reasons.
* TheMuso likes to use the realtime patch.
<crimsun> well, the -rt kernel itself isn't that big an issue; it's integrating -rt with the other Ubuntu patches
<TheMuso> crimsun: Indeed.
<crimsun> I looked at it for Breezy, ran away, then looked at it again for Dapper and ran away again, so I didn't bother for Edgy
<TheMuso> -rt is so damn intrusive.
<TheMuso> crimsun: It may be easier starting vanilla, applying -rt, and then putting the other stuff on top of that.
<TheMuso> But I don't know a hell of a lot about it.
<crimsun> that's the plan
<crimsun> although honestly I'm not sure the approach is worth the go
<TheMuso> Right.
<crimsun> most people aren't going to be buying exotic hardware, ala bigiron, for their setups
<cbx33> crimsun: ++
<cbx33> it seems to work fine with my setup
* LaserJock puts on some 92kbs .mp3-converted-to-.ogg stuff for the audiophiles
<TheMuso> crimsun: I have found the -rt patch when I have used it to be really nice however.
<cbx33> maybe I shoul dbuy a delta1010
<crimsun> TheMuso has 3 of those iirc
<TheMuso> cbx33: I have a 1010LT and love it.
<TheMuso> crimsun: A Delta 66, a 1010LT, and a DMX 6Fire 24/96.
<crimsun> ah
<TheMuso> All synched toghether.
<TheMuso> together even
<cbx33> oooh
<cbx33> lovely
<cbx33> I had a small studio whilst at uni
<crimsun> three synced is damned impressive
<TheMuso> And with a little patch to alsa-lib to one of teh plugins, it works with jack.
<cbx33> akai DPS12i - logic gold - spriti folio
<cbx33> JACK rocks
<cbx33> I'd like to get more into it again
<TheMuso> With 3 synched cards, damn right it does.
<cbx33> I hope I get to work on the sounds for edgy + `
<cbx33> 1
<Plug> right, ajmitch
<Plug> have I got a deal for you!
<TheMuso> cbx33: Were you the one who did the sounds for edgy?
<TheMuso> If so, I have some ideas for edgy+1.
<LaserJock> I want a seasonal sound theme selector for edgy+1 ;-)
<crimsun> that's crazy talk
<TheMuso> Hey thats not a bad idea. :)
<crimsun> next thing you know they'll be wanting seasonal ponies
<LaserJock> crimsun: well, like I ever listen to sound in Linux
<LaserJock> but still, if I did, that's what I'd want
* TheMuso turns off sound also.
<crimsun> sound? pssht, what's that?
<TheMuso> Although I quite like the sounds for this release.
<crimsun> tbh I think Edgy is more polished than Dapper
<LaserJock> crimsun: that thing that never works
<LaserJock> ;-)
<cbx33> TheMuso: yes it was me
<crimsun> don't make me invoke the pointy stick o' doom
<cbx33> I have a change to make to the shutdown one yet though
<TheMuso> Ah right.
<cbx33> it's too darn long
<TheMuso> Agreed.
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> TheMuso: want to move to a pm?
<cbx33> I'm interested in hearing your ideas
<LaserJock> I'm my P I it's not too long, j/k
<LaserJock> s/I'm/on/
<LaserJock> shesh, lack of sleep
<TheMuso> cbx33: WHy did you choose a plain key of C major? :)
<cbx33> it's just right on my Athlon 3200 here as well
<TheMuso> cbx33: sure
<cbx33> TheMuso: I dunno.....just seemed to work i guess
<Plug> ok, preparing for release
<Plug> should I remove my changelog of all the cruft between versions on revu?
<Plug> (ie can it say -10 Initial release)
<Plug> or will people wonder where 1-9 went
<crimsun> 0.1-0ubuntu1
<crimsun> or rather, 1.0-0ubuntu1
<imbrandon> Plug, you shouldent bump the version each time you upload to revu ;)
<LaserJock> REVU is rather interesting that way
<Plug> Erm, I'd think you should do excatly that
<crimsun> the only thing that's necessary is that it should be something-0ubuntu1
<LaserJock> not exactly the true packaging experience
<Plug> so you can tell builds apart somehow!
<LaserJock> always including the source tarball, for instance
<Plug> crimsun: I am currently up to -0ubuntu10
<imbrandon> they are seperated by date on REVU
<Plug> so I can regress, or use an epoch, or something
<Plug> imbrandon: packages built from REVU aren't
<crimsun> Plug: from a maintainer's perspective, it makes more sense to have the initial Edgy upload be foo-0ubuntu1
<imbrandon> REVU wont care if its an older version uploaded
<crimsun> I'd avoid epochs
<LaserJock> the packages on REVU are sperated by date
<LaserJock> so you can upload the same version over and over without problems
<crimsun> Plug: besides, with whichever vcs you're using, the changes are already tracked
<Plug> I'd be worried that people will build the package to test, and how can you tell one -0ubuntu1 version from another, easily, as a tester
<imbrandon> yea what laserjock said ( if dput complains remove the .upload file )
<Plug> so the consensus appears to be, go back to -0ubuntu1 :)
<imbrandon> Plug, by date on revu
<crimsun> Plug: for the initial Ubuntu upload, that's my suggestion
<Plug> imbrandon: harder when I've build a binary package from the source I downloaded, but people using REVU have to be careful I guess
<LaserJock> why?
<imbrandon> from what ive been told, the version should always stay at what is targeted for upload to the archives on REVU
<LaserJock> most of the time they aren't going to be grabing 5 different versions
<Plug> I quite often build binaries of versions of something I'm working on, for people to test
<imbrandon> only the latest
<LaserJock> ah, well that sort of makes sense
<imbrandon> sure , just tag something like ~test1 etc on it ( just dont upload that to revu )
* Plug uploads a version that might be construed as 9 versions old ;)
<crimsun> TheMuso: out of curiosity, does libespeak1 not contain anything that was formerly in espeak?
<TheMuso> crimsun: Versions prior to 1.15 did not have a shared library. libespeak1's contents is entirely new.
<crimsun> TheMuso: ok. And espeak-data is entirely new for post-1.11?
<TheMuso> crimsun: espeak-data is stuff that was in espeak from version 1.11 and before. Espeak-data was created as the shared library as well as the binary executable need the data it contains. Have I used the conflicts/replaces stuff incorrectly?
<crimsun> (i.e., checking if it makes more sense to C+R < 1.15)
<crimsun> no, your intent is correct
<StevenK> TheMuso: Stupid question, if I may.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Fire away.
<TheMuso> crimsun: I did that because there weren't any versions that were made as packages between 1.11 and 1.15
<StevenK> TheMuso: Well, it depends if you have used Orca.
<TheMuso> StevenK: If I've used orca, hell yes I have!
<crimsun> TheMuso: right, I'm trying to cover the case where someone [perhaps overzealous]  has taken your prior packaging infrastructure and generated his/her own debs, say for 1.14
<StevenK> TheMuso: Bart likes it, except for one niggling thing. If he is moving down a list, when he moves the next element, it should stop saying the previous element - which it doesn't.
<StevenK> TheMuso: Is there some way to set that behaviour?
<TheMuso> StevenK: What prog?
<StevenK> It seems to occur for everything.
<StevenK> Even icons on the desktop, for example.
<TheMuso> Is he using flat review mode, or just the arrow keys?
<TheMuso> And what version of orca?
<Plug> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3262
<Plug> go go go! :)
<StevenK> TheMuso: 1.0.0-0ubuntu1
<StevenK> TheMuso: However, for the other question, I couldn't say.
<TheMuso> Right.
<TheMuso> What synth?
<StevenK> Emacspeak
<TheMuso> Right.
<TheMuso> Because I haven't had such weird problems. I'll have another play later, but I can't remember such behavior happening.
* StevenK wonders if Bart followed through with his threat of posting to the mailing list.
<Fujitsu> Bart, StevenK?
<TheMuso> I haven't seen any posts yet.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Bart Bunting.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Bart Bunting, a vision-impaired co-worker of mine
<Fujitsu> Aha.
<StevenK> TheMuso: Any help/pointers would be cool.
<sivang> does someone know how to make scp skip already existing files?
<TheMuso> StevenK: I'll see what I can find.
<StevenK> TheMuso: Thanks muchly
<TheMuso> StevenK: No problem.
<TheMuso> COming to SLUG on Friday?
* StevenK writes out a sticky note, "I owe TheMuso one upload"
<StevenK> TheMuso: Not this month.
<TheMuso> RIghto
<TheMuso> StevenK: DOn't mention it.
<givre> dholbach: I apply your patch, and it seams now good for revu. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3253 .Thanks
<dholbach> givre: rock and roll
<dholbach> (to upload you can do this:           debuild -S -sa -k<mail address>          )
<dholbach> so I could do    debuild -S -sa -kdaniel.holbach@ubuntu.com
<dholbach> that's when I sponsor uploads for somebody else
<dholbach> but good work on the package
<dholbach> somebody else to review it, so we can get it in?
<LaserJock> ok, time for bed for me
<cbx33> nn LaserJock
<imbrandon> gnight LaserJock
<dholbach> night LaserJock
<cbx33> hi dholbach
<Fujitsu> 'night, LaserJock.
<LaserJock> 16 hr Ubuntu day
<Fujitsu> dholbach, that'd be nice.
* dholbach hugs LaserJock
<dholbach> Fujitsu: hm?
<dholbach> Fujitsu: you review it too?
<Fujitsu> Getting it in :)
<Fujitsu> dholbach, I could...
<dholbach> cool
<Fujitsu> I can't actually advocate it, though.
<dholbach> because we need a revu admin for that?
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, poke ajmitch about that later , he can fix you up
<Fujitsu> OK, will do :)
<dholbach> Fujitsu: just add your comment then
<dholbach> that's good enough
<dholbach> ;)
<crimsun> sire.tart is active now
<Laser_away> bah, don't let mere formalities get in the way of raging Ubuntu-holic MOTU action
* dholbach high-fives Laser_away
<dholbach> that's the spirit
<Fujitsu> Can I use dget or something on REVU?
<imbrandon> on the dsc file yes
<imbrandon> dget <url to dsc>
<Fujitsu> OK, good.
<Fujitsu> Thanks :)
<imbrandon> dholbach, is that dh@ you ?
<dholbach> imbrandon: yes
<imbrandon> cool ok
<imbrandon> Plug, looking at yours now
<Plug> imbrandon: thanks!
<givre> dholbach: great, thanks for the tips, i'll remember it
<dholbach> givre: cheers
<Fujitsu> My connection to imbrandon's server has just become really laggy :(
<imbrandon> hum
<Fujitsu> Is ntfs-3g meant to have a large number of changelog entries?
<Fujitsu> I don't think so...
<Fujitsu> Especially some with the distro set to unstable.
<Fujitsu> Or was this in Debian first?
<Fujitsu> It can't have been.
<Plug> Nothing is in Debian first any more :)
<Fujitsu> givre, dholbach: The changelog is iffy.
<givre> Fujitsu: the thing is that i use it in my own repo since the first version
<Fujitsu> givre, the changelog is not right...
<Fujitsu> For one thing, the version should be -0ubuntu1.
<Fujitsu> Not -1ubuntu1, as it's not in Debian yet.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, upstream can use the debian changelog too  ... but it should be -0ubuntu1
<dholbach> sed -s 's/unstable/UNRELEASED/' debian/changelog    - probably
<dholbach> :)
<Fujitsu> dholbach, yeah.
<Fujitsu> And drop the latest version to -0ubuntu1...
<crimsun> TheMuso: in the future you might find the library-maintenance portion more manageable with dh_install and using *.install
<imbrandon> unless like some upstreams use -N also then its say 0.4.4-2 becomes 0.4.4-2-0ubuntu1 right ?
<imbrandon> crimsun, ^^
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, yes.
<Fujitsu> And do we really want:
<Fujitsu> Conflicts: ntfs-3g (<=20070811-BETA-1)
<Fujitsu> There?
<crimsun> in that case you get Hobbsee and poke upstream til upstream makes the version sane
<imbrandon> hehe
<TheMuso> crimsun: The makefile for the source doesn't create symlinks, and does not have an install target.
<Fujitsu> Because the version wasn't released, it seems a little odd to label it as a conflict.
<crimsun> TheMuso: understood, just looking over debian/rules atm
<TheMuso> Right.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, yea so like 20070920-BETA-1-0ubuntu1
<imbrandon> ugh that ugly though
<Fujitsu> Ah, so the 20070920-BETA-1 is upstream?
<imbrandon> he is upstrream afaik
<Fujitsu> Aha!
<Fujitsu> Nice.
<imbrandon> erm maybe not
<imbrandon> wow ok looking at the upsream version numbers this package is actualy all wrong ( versioning wise ) ..... *looks*
<givre> Fujitsu: conflicts was due to a change inthe packaging in 20070811-BETA-1, so it was important to put it for my repo
<givre> imbrandon: i'm not upstream, but i'm in contact with
<givre> Fujitsu: i think the best should be simply to do a new version with only the edgy version in changelog
<Fujitsu> givre, yes, and eliminating the Conflict.
<Fujitsu> And I don't see the point of README.Debian.
<imbrandon> hrm looks like it needs to be ntfs-3g_2006.09.20-0ubuntu1
<givre> Fujitsu: right i'll  do that
<imbrandon> http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/mlf/ezaz/ntfs-3g-download.html going by upstream
<Fujitsu> Thanks, imbrandon.
<Fujitsu> So, to summarise ('cause I can't comment on REVU):
<Fujitsu>  * Version number is wrong
<Fujitsu>  * Changelog wants redoing
<Fujitsu>  * Remove Conflicts from debian/control...
<Fujitsu>  * README.Debian is a little pointless.
<Fujitsu> I think that's about it.
<imbrandon> yea if this package isnt native ( its not ) the cahngelog only needs to be "initial release "
<imbrandon> changelog*
<givre> imbrandon: the thing is upstream version is  ntfs-3g-20070920-BETA
<Fujitsu> givre, will upstream every have a non-date-based release?
<imbrandon> all of them are beta, they ahvent come out of that phase, they version by date ( your going off the tarbal name )
<Fujitsu> *ever
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, if they ever release a non-date-based one, 20070920 is going to be greater than it.
<givre> Fujitsu: he want to change that in the future, but not yet
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, they havent so far, but thats where epocs come in
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, I've never looked into epochs myself.
<Fujitsu> Any REVU admins around?
<imbrandon> givre, btw that tarbal is misnumbered ( its not 2007 yet )
<crimsun> Fujitsu: (perhaps siretart)
<cbx33> Fujitsu: I could comment but I don;t have my login details
<cbx33> not here anyway ;)
<Fujitsu> siretart, ping.
<Fujitsu> Thanks, imbrandon.
<Fujitsu> Oops, crimsun.
<imbrandon> fujitsu basicly the shor story is 1:1.0 > 20060927
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, I realise.
<Fujitsu> Otherwise there'd be no point to them :)
<imbrandon> ;)
<givre> imbrandon: i'm not sure but i think he made a mistake in the first release and don't want to change it back to not conflicts with older version
<cbx33> Fujitsu: I can get my pass for REVU did you want me to add those comments
<imbrandon> anyhow givre they misnumbers the tarbal and http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/mlf/ezaz/ntfs-3g-download.html on that page but the actualy program number is the date in 2006
<Fujitsu> cbx33, don't bother, I've given them to givre here, so it's not important.
<cbx33> ok np
<imbrandon> i already did it cbx33
<imbrandon> err Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> Thanks :)
<givre> imbrandon: so do you think i should name it 20070920-BETA-1-0ubuntu1 20060920-BETA-1-0ubuntu1 or 20060920-1-0ubuntu1
<imbrandon> 2006.09.20-0ubuntu1
<Plug> 1.0+20060920-0ubuntu1  ?
<cbx33> imbrandon: is there a way we can change out REVU passwords?
<Fujitsu> Plug, I think that might be better.
<imbrandon> cbx33, no ;(
<Fujitsu> At least, the dots in imbrandon's shouldn't be there.
<imbrandon> Plug, no becouse it might not be released as 1.0
<imbrandon> it might get released as 0.5
<imbrandon> you have to follow upstream
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, that's a good point.
<Fujitsu> So 20060920-0ubuntu1
<Plug> True, another number than 1.0 might also suffice then
* cbx33 plans to commit his to memory
<imbrandon> why any at all, follow upstream IF they release a numbered version use an epoc , thats what they are made for
<cbx33> now I am a MOTU, does this mean I can advocate pacakges?
<Fujitsu> cbx33, once an admin enables it.
<givre> imbrandon: so i have to follow upstream but correct his mistake ( wrong date) ?
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, yeah.
<Plug> if you can, look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3262 ;)
<imbrandon> cbx33, if you have spoke to a revu admin yes ;)
<crimsun> TheMuso: done, thanks.
<imbrandon> Plug, yes i have it building now
<TheMuso> crimsun: Thank you.
<Plug> imbrandon: indeed - thank you - but I believe I need 2, and the more feedback the better!
<imbrandon> givre, yea thats just a mistake in the TARBAL NAME, if you look at the actual release numbers on the downloads page and the changelog
<imbrandon> thats what to go by
<cbx33> imbrandon: so do you mean...for every package....once a REVU admin is happy then I can advocate...or just to tell a revu admin I am a motu now?
<imbrandon> cbx33, the latter
<givre> imbrandon: ok, thanks
<imbrandon> once you have been "upgraded" on revu you can, its not automagic /yet/
<cbx33> thanks imbrandon
<Plug> Is Launchpad mooted to have revu-like capacity at any stage in the future?
<imbrandon> someday ;)
<xopher> How does apt handle version numbers, which is considered newer: linux-restricted-modules-2.6.17-10-generic-2.6.17_2.6.17.5-5 or ..5-5.1 ?
<Plug> dpkg --compare-versions iirc
<Plug> "man dpkg" tells you
<xopher> ok, thanks
<Plug> hmm, that tells you how to test, but doesn't say why
<Hobbsee> what are the two version numbers?
<xopher> 2.6.17-10-generic-2.6.17.5-5 and 2.6.17-10-generic-2.6.17.5-5.1
<cbx33> imbrandon: for some reason I already have the advocate capability
<Hobbsee> xopher: the latter is greater
<imbrandon> xopher, " dpkg --compare-versions 2.6.17-10-generic-2.6.17.5-5 gt 2.6.17-10-generic-2.6.17.5-5.1 && echo yes "
<xopher> allright, thanks
<TheMuso> Wow. Another kernel.
<Plug> imbrandon: thanks!
<Fujitsu> motu: O
<Fujitsu> *:O
<siretart> Fujitsu: pong
<Fujitsu> siretart, hi. I'm a MOTU now, can my REVU account please be modified to exhibit such capabilities?
<Fujitsu> (william.grant@ubuntu.com.au)
<StevenK> Fujitsu: When did you get MOTU?
<Fujitsu> StevenK, this morning at about 6:20 :)
<cbx33> siretart: mine too if you have time
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Nice! Congrats.
<Fujitsu> Thanks :)
* StevenK ponders reading the logs to see what crack Keybuk and mjg59 were on.
<siretart> Fujitsu: cbx33 congrats!
<siretart> cbx33: your revu id?
<Fujitsu> Thanks siretart :)
<cbx33> petesavage@ubuntu.com
* Fujitsu attacks StevenK.
* StevenK wards it off easily.
<Fujitsu> True, with your uber-DD powers.
<siretart> done (both)
* StevenK buggers out into the repainted big blue room.
<Fujitsu> siretart, thanks :)
* siretart wants DD powers as well!
<imbrandon> me 3
<cbx33> thankx siretart
<StevenK> siretart: I know a good plastic surgeon...
<siretart> StevenK: oh. sounds promising
<imbrandon> lol
<Hobbsee> hmm?
<givr1> imbrandon, Fujitsu : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3263 ;)
<Fujitsu> givr1, noted, I'm about to advocate.
<Fujitsu> givr1, I hate to say it...
<Fujitsu> But it looks fine!
<givr1> Fujitsu: thanks
<givr1> Fujitsu: why hate ?
<Fujitsu> Who knows :P
<Fujitsu> Advocated on REVU. Now you just need to find somebody else.
<givr1> Fujitsu: ok, many thanks
<Fujitsu> No problem :)
<givr1> dholbach, imbrandon : ^^^  ;)
<imbrandon> givr1, sorry was afk, looking now
<Plug> Fujitsu: you can advocate now! Maaaaaaaaaaate! :)
<Fujitsu> Plug, true. I'll have a look at -pptp.
<Plug> cheers
<imbrandon> givr1, uploaded
<Plug> (cutting it rather fine!)   I'm off to bed
<givr1> imbrandon, Fujitsu :great. Many thanks guys :)
<Fujitsu> No problem, givr1. Thankyou for putting in the work to package it!
<imbrandon> givr1, thanks for the package, ok i'm off to bed soon gnight fellas
<Fujitsu> Goodnight, imbrandon.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, and btw , shiney new kernel just for you ( -10-generic )
<imbrandon> heh
<Fujitsu> :P
<dholbach> imbrandon: rock on
<dholbach> givr1: way to go!
<imbrandon> hehe gnight dholbach
<lastnode> can someone point me to the MOTU python packaging policy?
<lastnode> (i've seen the deb py policy, i was wondering if MOTU has other requirements)
<Fujitsu> lastnode, nope, just the Debian one.
<lastnode> Fujitsu, thanks a lot.
<Fujitsu> No problem.
<lastnode> Fujitsu, just reading the policy doc here, and is it necessary to bytecompile py modules? or is that just an option?
<lastnode> (using python-support/central)
<Fujitsu> lastnode, I believe it's optional, but I couldn't be sure.
<lastnode> ok, much thanks again, Fujitsu
<phanatic> good afternoon
<Fujitsu> Hi phanatic.
<phanatic> hey Fujitsu
<phanatic> Fujitsu: congrats for -dev ;)
<Fujitsu> Thanks :)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Fujitsu> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya Mr. MOTU :-)
<Fujitsu> Heya Mr. Hon. God :-)
<bddebian> Hon?
<Fujitsu> Honourable.
<bddebian> Ahh :-)
<\sh> moins
<Fujitsu> Hey \sh.
<Hobbsee> hey \sh
<bddebian> Hi \sh
<Riddell> \sh: have you heard from amu at all recently?
<\sh> Riddell: he is behind me
<Riddell> oh, cool :)
* ogra waves at \sh and amu
<\sh> I told him to come
<Riddell> \sh: can you ask him if he got my e-mail, I'd like to sort out the issue with his shop before someone gets upset
<\sh> done...he will connect in a few
<\sh> hey ogra
* Hobbsee waves at ogra 
<\sh> did I already say that I dislike SLES10?
* ogra waves at Hobbsee :)
<Hobbsee> :)
<dholbach> any other good candidates for getting uploaded?
<dholbach> I added some comments to gnomescan yesterday
<dholbach> some of them should be easy to fix
<cbx33> dholbach: thanks for the comments on grasynco
<cbx33> I'll get that fixed up for edgy + 1
<dholbach> can't we get that fixed for edgy? :)
<cbx33> not much point really
<cbx33> or
<cbx33> hmm no
<dholbach> ok
<cbx33> because it would need to update the latest edgy +1 cd isos
<ogra> dholbach, its a tool to download milestone releases :)
<dholbach> and i looked at firefox-launchpad-ingetragion
<dholbach> or whatever it was called
<dholbach> it'd be nice to get it renamed, to not clash with LPI
<dholbach> but apart from that it was good to go
<dholbach> ok
<ogra> dholbach, not much point fixing it one day before beta i guess :)
* Fujitsu runs off to bed.
<dholbach> edgy users could download edgy+1 isos
<dholbach> bye Fujitsu
<cbx33> hmmm true
<Fujitsu> See ya, dholbach
<cbx33> but we don;t know what format the edgy + 1 archive will take
<cbx33> could be some name changes
<lionelp> dholbach: I renamed my firefox-launchpad-integration
<dholbach> lionelp: ROCK ON
<dholbach> lionelp: will look into getting it uploaded later
<dholbach> i'll be out for lunch now
<dholbach> but the packaging looked good
<lionelp> np
<dholbach> so bribe somebody else into lookint at it in the meantime ;-)
* dholbach hugs lionelp
<dholbach> see you later!
<lionelp> thanks
<dholbach> anytime
<lionelp> somone to have a look on http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3254 ? (firefox-launchpad-plugin)
<lionelp> bddebian ?
* pygi looks
<pygi> lionelp: is this some kind of firefox plugin?
<lionelp> yes
<lionelp> it adds in quick search fields search on launchpad
<lionelp> this is not an extension (in Firefox words)
<pygi> hm, perhaps you should note the depend on firefox by version because firefox sometimes breaks compatibility?
<pygi> ah
<pygi> lionelp: thought it was regular extension, sorry
<pygi> homepage seems non-reachable :P
<lionelp> It is a blank page
<lionelp> I have to change it (my own website)
<lionelp> I'll do it :)
<pygi> seems nice otherwise :)
<lionelp> cool :)
<pygi> at least by quick looking over it :p
<lastnode> im trying to wrap my head around packaging. if im packaging an app that uses an interpreted language like python, i dont need /debian/rules do i?
<Adri2000> how debdiff should be named ?
<Hobbsee> Adri2000: doesnt matter
<Adri2000> ok
<Adri2000> Hobbsee: W: gtodo source: changelog-should-mention-nmu
<Adri2000> W: gtodo source: source-nmu-has-incorrect-version-number 0.14+cvs20050820-2ubuntu1
<Adri2000> can i ignore or not ?
<ogra> you can
<Hobbsee> you can ignore both of those warnings - they're debian specific
<ogra> ubuntu has no NMUs
* Hobbsee sneaks more MB onto ogra's cds while he isnt looking, again
<ogra> gah
<ogra> evil you
<ogra> :)
* Hobbsee flashes her evil red eyes around
<Hobbsee> ogra: muhahahha.  that's definetly me.
<sivang> lastnode: you do need one. all packages require this file.
<lastnode> sivang, ok, thanks
<Adri2000> http://adrishost.homeip.net/~adri2000/ubuntu/gtodo_0.14+cvs20050820-2ubuntu1.debdiff < does it look good?
<Adri2000> i don't know where these two lines come from:
<Adri2000> only in patch2:
<Adri2000> unchanged:
<ajmitch> evening all
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
* ajmitch shouldn't go on irc just before bed
<crimsun> hah. Just converted this Java assignment to both Python /and/ Ruby.
<ajmitch> well done crimsun
<Hobbsee> hey ajmitch
<ajmitch> hi Hobbsee
<Adri2000> can someone check my debdiff please?
<seaLne> can someone remind me how to do a sync request?
<Adri2000> report a bug
<Hobbsee> seaLne: use the request sync script on DeveloperResources
<Adri2000> but universe freeze is tomorrow
* Hobbsee wonders if the sync requests have to be in by then, or the syncs have to be done by then.
<pygi> Hobbsee: well, after tommorow, you'll need Universe exception I take it
<Hobbsee> hmmm
<StevenK> Correct.
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: afaik they'll try & clear backlog of syncs that were filed beforehand
<ajmitch> going from what happened with dapper
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: oh good
<ajmitch> if not, you'll find out :)
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> then i'll whinge
<seaLne> Hobbsee: the script dosen't try to use your local mailserver which seems strange and breaks therefore for me
<Hobbsee> seaLne: the new one uses the ubuntu default one, yes.
<Hobbsee> seaLne: you can change it though
<Hobbsee> or just do it manually
<seaLne> just send a mail with that content?
<seaLne> does a motu need to confirm it?
<seaLne> Bug #62615
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62615 in sleuthkit "Please sync sleuthkit (universe) from unstable (main)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62615
<seaLne> it builds fine
<Tonio_> Hobbsee, seaLne, fancy revuing this http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3264 ?
* pygi will also look
<lupine_85> ooooooh does that work? ;)
<ajmitch> no way I'm reviewing anything right now, it's way past my bedtime :)
<lupine_85> hehe
* Hobbsee wonders what the star in debian/control is for
<lupine_85> it's half 2 in the afternoon here
<lupine_85> so... the magical incantation: "fancy revuing this http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3211 ?" ;)
* lupine_85 is more or less resigned to it not getting into universe until edgy+1
<seaLne> Hobbsee: *?
<pygi> seaLne: ah, nothing, in the description :)
<Hobbsee> seaLne: yes
<seaLne> where?
<pygi> Tonio_: you have probably un-needed "*"  in description in debian/control :)
<seaLne> oh found it
<pygi> http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/knetstats-0609270920/knetstats-1.6/debian/control
<seaLne> Hobbsee: do sync requests need a motu ack?
<Hobbsee> seaLne: yep
<pygi> seaLne: two acks I take it
<Hobbsee> no, just one
<pygi> Hobbsee: ok, oki :P
<Hobbsee> and to follow the policy
<Tonio_> pygi: humyeah true, I'll change before upload
<dholbach> how's the REVUing going?
<Hobbsee> posted on ubuntu-devel-announce
<seaLne> Hobbsee: fancy looking at Bug #62615 ?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62615 in sleuthkit "Please sync sleuthkit (universe) from unstable (main)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62615
<pygi> Tonio_: otherwise seems fine for me (Disclaimer: I'm NOT motu)
<Tonio_> pygi: thanks
<seaLne> pbuilding knetstats just now
<Hobbsee> seaLne: builds and installs fine?
<seaLne> yep
<Hobbsee> Tonio_: looks good to me too, apart from the aforementioned star.
<pygi> Tonio_: the "." should probably be at the end of sentence, and not in new line also :P
<seaLne> that is a formating thing for control files
<pygi> ergh,right
<pygi> sorry :)
<Tonio_> Hobbsee great, can you comment on revu ? I'll fix the start before upload
<pygi> me has some problems with his system :(
<Hobbsee> seaLne: done
<pygi> Tonio_: just ignoreme :)
<seaLne> ta
<Hobbsee> Tonio_: done
<Tonio_> pygi: hehe :)
<Tonio_> Hobbsee thanks, I'm just waiting for sealne
<seaLne> i'm not a motu
<Tonio_> argh....
<Tonio_> okay
<seaLne> sorry
<Hobbsee> hehe
* Hobbsee didnt ack it.
<seaLne> but i can confirm it works well for me
<Tonio_> Hobbsee just reuploaded so that you can advocate
<lupine_85> *ooooh a bug in rutilt
* lupine_85 fixes
<seaLne> i wonder how it decides what bw is the top of the applet
* Hobbsee waits for it to hit
<Adri2000> Hobbsee: can you look at bug #48628 and see if the debdiff is good
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 48628 in gtodo "gtodo.desktop: Missing Encoding Directive" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/48628
<Hobbsee> er, you've just moved the encoding bit up?
<Adri2000> yep :p
<Adri2000> not really difficult to did but it fixes the problem
<Hobbsee> hmmm okay
<Adri2000> you can pbuild it to check, it is not very long to build
<Tonio_> Hobbsee: just waiting for a "yes" ;) http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3264
<Adri2000> Hobbsee: then is it ok to upload?
<Hobbsee> Tonio_: done :)
<Hobbsee> Tonio_: i just refreshed it
<Hobbsee> Adri2000: poke Tonio_, i'm not uploading at this time of night :P
<Hobbsee> unless i absolutely have to
<Adri2000> Hobbsee: heh :p i didn't realized, it's afternoon here
<Adri2000> Tonio_: ? ;-)
<Hobbsee> oh gosh, i love bugs like this.  https://launchpad.net/bugs/62618
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62618 in kdeartwork "edgy default purple color ugly" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
<pygi> Hobbsee: lol
<Hobbsee> a) it's in the wrong package.  b) it's a design issue, not everyone likes everything c)  it's very easy for the user to change d)  see point b)
<Hobbsee> can someone else reject that?
<lupine_85> purple ++ ;
<lupine_85> * ;)
<Hobbsee> exactly :)
<lupine_85> brown -- though
<\sh> Hobbsee: why don't you reject it?
<Hobbsee> \sh: i did.  i was trying to think of a way to do it diplomatically
<Tonio_> Adri2000: yep ?
<lupine_85> oh, my. revu + F5 is bad
<Adri2000> Tonio_: bug 48628, look at the debdiff i posted, if it's ok for you, can you upload ?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 48628 in gtodo "gtodo.desktop: Missing Encoding Directive" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/48628
<Tonio_> Adri2000: yep, look okay, but I will not upload for dapper, only edgy.
<Tonio_> Adri2000: I'm building and if it is ok, uploading
<Adri2000> ok
<Tonio_> Adri2000: you should ping the debian maintainer to add the patch, since this package is synced
<Adri2000> Tonio_: ok, i will email him
<Adri2000> Tonio_: hum are you sure the problem occurs also in debian? because the adding of "X-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain=gtodo" seems ubuntu specific
<Tonio_> hum indeed :)
<Tonio_> Adri2000: uploaded
<Adri2000> :-) thank you
<Tonio_> Adri2000: de rien :)
<Adri2000> ah ! franais ;)
<Tonio_> Hobbsee: you like stupid bugs ?
<Tonio_> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kdebase/+bug/62291
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62291 in kdebase "Image from removable device set as background not kept" [Unknown,Confirmed] 
<Tonio_> this one is *very* stupid too :)
<Hobbsee> Tonio_: ooh, lovely.  i vaguely remember seeing that.  we really do need a response for "your bug is stupid.  try "no"." - but i havent seen one that's diplomatic
<lupine_85> oooh, I don't know.
<lupine_85> suppose <someone> could add a dialogue box that asks them if they want to copy to ~ if the path is /media
<seaLne> maybe we should have a special list of bugs that we keep for when we are in a bad mood to answer :)
<lupine_85> but yeah, a bit silly ;)
<Hobbsee> seaLne: the list would get far too long.
<Hobbsee> seaLne: and my patience isnt that good.
<fbond> anyone know:
<fbond> using cdbs-edit-patch, whitespace in my debian/rules file is causing diff command to fail
<seaLne> anyone fancy looking at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3268 ? i'm not sure about the last thing in lintian
<fbond> I can remove whitespace: DEB_TAR_SRCDIR := snd-8    =>    DEB_TAR_SRCDIR :=snd-8
<fbond> But it seems like the situation shouldn't be that fragile?
<fbond> Is this a bug in cdbs-edit-patch?
<fbond> Or a bug in (gasp) make ?
<lfittl> seaLne: sleuthkit should be in Build-Depends-Indep
<seaLne> lfittl: with the others as is?
<lfittl> yep, although I am not completly sure about dpatch
<seaLne> lfittl: actually can yu clarify what you just said as i misread it and now it dosen't make sense to me, did you mean the other way round?
<lfittl> sure :)
<seaLne> Build-Depends-Indep: debhelper (>> 5.0.0), dpatch
<seaLne> Build-Depends: sleuthkit
<seaLne> ?
<lfittl> exactly
<lfittl> argh
<lfittl> no
<lfittl> swap Build-Depends-Indep and Build-Depends ;)
<seaLne> then it complains with a different error
<lfittl> hrmm
<seaLne> http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/autopsy-0609271015/lintian
<lfittl> mom, will take a closer look at it
<lfittl> Build-Depends: debhelper (>> 5.0.0), dpatch
<lfittl> Build-Depends-Indep: sleuthkit
<lfittl> seaLne: ^
<lfittl> works for me
<seaLne> lfittl: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3271
<seaLne> lintian still seems unhapy
<lfittl> seaLne: because you have dpatch and debhelper in build-depends-indep, they should be in build-depends and sleuthkit should be in build-depends-indep
<Adri2000> Tonio_: the new release should appear in launchpad first ?
<seaLne> lfittl: arrrggggg :)
<Tonio_> Adri2000: yeah, you should see the source package before it gets built
<Adri2000> ok
<seaLne> lfittl: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3272
<lfittl> :)
<lfittl> seaLne: you should also mention that change in debian/changelog
<seaLne> lfittl: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3273
<lfittl> seaLne: looks good, will upload in ~ 10 min
<seaLne> lfittl: thanks for your help
<lfittl> no problem ;)
<lfittl> seaLne: uploaded
<lionelp> lfittl: could you review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3254 ?
<lfittl> lionelp: sure
<lionelp> thanks :)
<lfittl> lionelp: why are you removing *.old and debootstrap-dir on clean?
<lionelp> lfittl: should be the result of a copy-paste
<lionelp> it is useless, that's true
<lfittl> ah, ok, removing the useless stuff from debian/rules is still nice ;)
<lfittl> also, .PHONY lists the checkroot target, which doesn't exist, and the build-stamp target is not creating the file build-stamp
<lfittl> and build should not depend on install, instead binary-indep should depend on build and install
<lionelp> lfittl: ok, modified
<lfittl> :)
<lionelp> What the .PHONY line used for ?
<lfittl> normally each target is used to create the file that corresponds to its name, .PHONY says that all the targets it depends on have nothing to do with files
<lionelp> Oki, thansk !
<lfittl> -> http://www.gnu.org/software/make/manual/html_node/Phony-Targets.html for further information ;)
<lionelp> lfittl: something to add before I upload it again ?
<lfittl> no looks good, but haven't tested it yet, will do a quick build + test
<dholbach> lionelp, lfittl: I'll give my ok later on, after a quick walk
<dholbach> bbl
<lfittl> lionelp: one last thing, maybe Section: web fits better than base
<lionelp> lfittl: changed :)
<lfittl> :)
<lfittl> lionelp: works, and is useful too, nice work
<lionelp> lfittl: thanks, but it was not a lot of work :)
<lfittl> yet another thing I just saw, the description has a Homepage listed, but the page seems to be empty
<lionelp> lfittl: yes, this is my homepage, I will add something ASAP
<lionelp> at least a link to the sources
<lfittl> ah, ok
<lionelp> or you prefer I delete it ?
<lfittl> no, if you add something soon its no problem
<lionelp> Ok, uploading with your remarks
<lionelp> lfittl: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3274
<lfittl> lionelp: build-stamp should not be in .PHONY, debootstrap-dir shouldn't be removed on clean and install target should depend on build, sry to be so picky, but getting debian/rules right is always a good thing to have
<lfittl> *install should depend on build instead of build-stamp
<lfittl> but after fixing these little things, it is ready to be uploaded :)
<lionelp> lfittl: no pb for beeing so picky, it like that I will learn !
<lfittl> good
<lionelp> lfittl: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3275
<lfittl> lionelp: uploaded :)
<lionelp> \o/
<lionelp> thank you very much lfittl
<lfittl> no problem
<lfittl> anybody else in need of a package review?
<sivang> lionelp: going to install this once it built
<superm1> yes
<superm1> i uploaded backstep last night
<superm1> and looking for revu
<lionelp> sivang: cool :)
<lfittl> superm1: will take a look
<lupine_85> lfittl: me :)
<superm1> Thx.
<mario_> superm1: I can help you with looking over package, link pls?
<mario_> sivang: how goes db2? :)
<lfittl> lupine_85: revu link?
<superm1> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3258
* mario_ looks
<lupine_85> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3266
<lfittl> lupine_85: will review it after being finished with backstep
<lupine_85> ok :)
<lupine_85> my first package btw so be gentle ;)
<sivang> mario_: not using your nick anymore? :)
<mario_> sivang: I'm getting dc'ed every several seconds due to this damn adsl connection!!!
<sivang> mario_: I see
<mario_> sivang: so no point in killing ghosts :)
<sivang> mario_: right.
<mario_> I know it'll be good :)
<lfittl> superm1: debian/dirs is not needed, as the directories should be created by $(MAKE) install
<superm1> k
<lfittl> superm1: newest standards version is 3.7.2, and if you don't intend to backport the package to dapper, you should use debhelper level 5
<pygi> when is universe freeze exactly?
<lfittl> tomorrow, approx. at 1400 UTC
<superm1> okay.  i can take care of those things then
<superm1> anything else?
<lfittl> not finished yet ;)
<superm1> :)
<lfittl> superm1: please include the full license header that is written in the header files in debian/copyright, also you should mention the Copyright
<lfittl> s/header files/source files/
<superm1> so i should just copy it verbatim from the license shipped with the package then?
<lfittl> if all files have the same license, just copy the license header from one of them, for example src/daemon.c
<superm1> Ok. Yes, they should all be under GPLv2
<lfittl> just format it a little bit nicer, e.g. remove the * comment markes at the beginning, but keep the text
<lfittl> why?
<lfittl> the source files seem to mention gplv2 and later
<superm1> oh, and later?
<superm1> i'll have to double check then
<lfittl> yep, debian/copyright is important, there should be no errors there
<dholbach> lionelp: congratulations on firefox-launchpad!
<dholbach> lfittl: thanks
<superm1> using "head -n 7 *.c | more", it looks like the headers for all the source files are identical.  I'll just copy one of them then.
<lfittl> dholbach: no problem, getting at least those who are interested in their packages done before UniverseFreeze seems important to me
<dholbach> to me too
<lfittl> fine, then you can continue with reviewing http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3266 :P
<lfittl> mmh, if only my own todo list before freeze would be shorter (ogre update, glest upload, and some debian syncs)
<dholbach> glest!
<dholbach> gelst!
<dholbach> glest!
<lfittl> heh
<dholbach> we sitll have time for syncs
<lfittl> really? :=
<lfittl> :)
<dholbach> we can consider uvf exceptions for those
<dholbach> sure
<dholbach> that depends of course, but still
<lupine_85> hehe, 3266 is tiny :)
* dholbach looks at runtilt
* lupine_85 looks happy
<lfittl> glest is easy, the debian pkg-games team has finished the work started on REVU, so it was just a matter of fixing a little automake problem, now I just have to do a quick test build ;)
<dholbach> that's cool
<dholbach> glest-data is already approved
<lfittl> yep, I know
<dholbach> rock and roll
<lfittl> but first, 2 package reviews, then glest ;)
<bddebian> w00t, we are going to get glest?
<dholbach> join the REVU crew ;)
<LaserJock> what the heck is glest?
<bddebian> A game
<LaserJock> doh
<bddebian> dholbach: Right, I haven't done anything for REVU..
<dholbach> bddebian: kidding :)
<lfittl> :)
<bddebian> :-)
<bddebian> Though my RL work is kicking my arse so I am behind :'-(
<LaserJock> bah, forget about RL, Ubuntu is all that matters ;-)
<lionelp> thanks dholbach, and thanks for your help
<dholbach> lionelp: not to worry
<dholbach> lionelp: i enjoyed it :)
<lfittl> superm1: how did you create the orig.tar.gz? (as upstream only provides .tar.bz2)
<superm1> extracted it, and recompressed it
<superm1> as tar.gz
<lfittl> run bunzip2, then gzip -9, don't extract it and recompress
<superm1> wasn't really sure what to do in cases that tar.gz wasnt avail
<lfittl> if its a tar.bz2 simply decompress it, and recompress the tarball
<lfittl> in case of a zip you would have to completely extract it
<superm1> ok
<lfittl> superm1: if you fix all the things mentioned, well done, and it also works here :)
<lionelp> dholbach: me to :)
<superm1> Ok, i'll have it up in a little bit
<dholbach> lfittl: commented on rutilt
<lfittl> k, just tell me when it is ready ;)
<lionelp> does someone with an AMD64 could do a build test for me ?
<lionelp> on this : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3207
<superm1> I can do it for u after I fix up backstep and upload it if you'd like
<lfittl> dholbach: ah, good, now I can work on glest, as you already did the first step :)
<lfittl> * with reviewing rutilt
* lupine_85 looks
<dholbach> tsssssss :)
<dholbach> lfittl: thanks Mr. Manager
<lupine_85> ah, ok :)
<dholbach> lfittl: we needed a new MOTU Manager for ages
<dholbach> lfittl: thanks for taking up the challenge
<lfittl> hehe
* lupine_85 would need to look up debian/patches
<lupine_85> apart from that, seems simple enough :)
<lfittl> dholbach: a new one? who was the old one?
<lupine_85> thanks - I'll get it done ASAP
<dholbach> good question :)
<lfittl> :)
<lfittl> MOTU manages itself, there is no need for a single manager ;)
<pygi> dholbach: have a sec for me?
<dholbach> pygi: fire away
<lionelp> lupine_85: are you talking to me?
<pygi> dholbach: when exactly tommorow is freeze? I need to get at least one package done (and possibly 6 more if I can get sources in time)
<lupine_85> to dholbach :)
<dholbach> pygi: dunno yet
<lfittl> pygi: somewhere I heard 1400 UTC
<pygi> dholbach: aha, oki
<dholbach> lupine_85: dpatch is what you probably want
<pygi> thank lfittl
<lupine_85> ok
<lionelp> dholbach: could you do another build test on your AMD64 for http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3207 when you have a little time ?
<superm1> lonelp i just kicked it off on mine
<superm1> it built fine
<lionelp> superm1: great !
<dholbach> lionelp: sure
<superm1> only one thing didnt look so good, but its not amd64 specific
<superm1> docbook2x-man debian/nagcon.1.docbook
<superm1> I/O error : Attempt to load network entity http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/xml/4.2/docbookx.dtd
<superm1> lfittl, uploaded the changed package.  it juts upadted on the revu page, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3276
<dholbach> lionelp: builds nicely - doing a review of the rest
<lionelp> dholbach: cool
<lfittl> superm1: just noticed, the version number is wrong, 0.3-0ubuntu1 is the correct one
<superm1> oh even though its not coming from debian upstream?
<dholbach> lionelp: looks SUPER
* dholbach hugs lionelp
<dholbach> if somebody wants to pick up nagcon - go!
<lionelp> thanks again dholbach!
<dholbach> lionelp: anytime
<lfittl> superm1: we need ubuntu versioning so that debian people can package it too, and their package can update ours, that would be impossible if both Debian and Ubuntu would use 0.3-1
<superm1> ah makes sense
<superm1> should i reupload with that version number then, or can you make that minor change when commiting it?
<dholbach> lfittl: i'll upload gmult and change dapper -> edgy myself
<lfittl> dholbach: k, same thing with cdpr, will update the standards version and upload ;)
<dholbach> lfittl: ROCK
<dholbach> i'll just do a quick edgy testbuild
<lionelp> lfittl: you will have time to review nagcon ?
<lfittl> lionelp: maybe later, have to do some own packaging work before the freeze ;)
<lionelp> lfittl: sure !
<dholbach> gmult uploaded
<lupine_85> hmmm....
<lupine_85> how does one use dpatch to modify a file, when both the original file and the patch to be applied changes every build?!
<lupine_85> no wait, the target (how I want the file to look) is always the same...
<lupine_85> question - can I use debian/rules to edit debian/patches/blah ?
<dholbach> lupine_85: just add the dpatch runes to debian/rules (explained in /usr/share/doc/dpatch), then run   dpatch-edit-patch 01-my-patch-that-fixes-the-world
<dholbach> then do your changes (in a subshell)
<dholbach> then hit ctrl-d
<dholbach> then add the patch name to debian/patches/00list
<dholbach> done
<dholbach> :)
<lupine_85> but the file to be patched changes every build
<LaserJock> how is the file generated
<lupine_85> by the configure.sh script
<LaserJock> out of nothing or from a .in file?
<lupine_85> out of nothing
<lupine_85> it just uses echo
<lupine_85> I was using sed to edit the generated file directly; I was considering pointing it at the patch file
<lupine_85> don't know if that'd be "allowed" though (seems a bit pointless ;) )
<lupine_85> the file gets removed every make clean
<LaserJock> why not patch the configure.sh to make the file you want?
<lupine_85> hmm...
<lupine_85> that could work :)
<dholbach> wb hub
* dholbach looks at gpixpod
<lfittl> superm1: sry, totally forgot to answer you, yes please upload again with the correct version
<lfittl> superm1: another thing, Depends: libgtk2.0-0 is not necessary, $(shlibs:Depends) automatically inserts it
<azeem> LaserJock: hey
<azeem> LaserJock: do you have an edgy desktop?  Can you tell me whether xmakemol still works fine?
<azeem> LaserJock: also, I tried to quickly have a look at the bkchem python stuff last night but failed
<LaserJock> hmm
* azeem successfully evaded the new python policy so far
<LaserJock> doh
<LaserJock> I didn't
<LaserJock> azeem: xmakemol looks fine to me
<LaserJock> I loaded a .xyz and moved it around
<azeem> great
<azeem> cause the current Debian version FTBFS
<LaserJock> bummer
<azeem> well, we could merge the dapper Ubuntu changes I guess
<azeem> Ubuntu doesn't support OpenGL'd motif/lesstif
<superm1> lfittl, Sorry, stepped out of the office.  I fixed the version and changed that dependency, and re-uploaded. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3279
<superm1> LaserJock, do you know if anyone else got a chance to look at mythplugins this morning after brandon did?
<LaserJock> nope, sorry
<superm1> do u remember who he had asked?  I don't have my log from last night on me
<gnomefreak> is there any plan to include the new beta nvidia drivers in edgy or sticking with the version thats there?
* gnomefreak has strange feeling its gonna be too late when they are released and people are assuming they will be in edgy
<LaserJock> superm1: it was ajmitch I believe
<superm1> Ah okay.  I'll watch for when ajmitch unidles then and ask him.
<superm1> Thanks.
<lfittl> I need someone to test glest packages (3d accel is not working for me atm): http://www.ixios-software.com/~lfittl/ubuntu/glest/ / http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3278
<Lutin> Hi
<Lutin> please, how can I write a debian/control file that allows two pacakges to remove each other ?
<LaserJock> Lutin: how do you mean?
<Lutin> LaserJock, having foo1 and foo2 removing each other. installing foo1 removes foo2, and install foo2 removes foo1
<Lutin> how can I do that
<LaserJock> Conflicts:
<LaserJock> or Replaces: perhaps
<LaserJock> check the Debian Policy
<Lutin> ok
<LaserJock> Lutin: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html#s-binarydeps
<Lutin> LaserJock, thanks
<phanatic> anybody having time for a quick check? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3281 (just a new upstream version)
<ajmitch> morning
<lionelp> morning ajmitch
<superm1> lfittl, thanks for the advocating.  Just need one more MOTU to approve and its in right?
<superm1> ajmitch, did you get a chance to look at mythplugins after imbrandon did?
<ajmitch> no, was I expected to?
<superm1> I thought he had asked you if you could at some point...could have been someone else last night.
<superm1> i dont have the log with me here
<ajmitch> right, he did ask me, and I ended up being very busy again :)
<superm1> hehe
<superm1> well if you get a chance at some point today, can you take a look then?
<ajmitch> um
<ajmitch> that could be a challenge to find time
* ajmitch is just waking up for the morning before going off to work
<superm1> Ok.  Well I'll keep an eye out for another free MOTU then.
<ajmitch> ok, sorry about that
<superm1> Not a big deal, just trying to beat the UVF and have time to fix anything wrong before that :)
<lionelp> ping Toadstool
<Toadstool> lionelp: quick pong, I am working
<lionelp> arf, I was looking for a MOTU to review my package...
<lionelp> no time now ?
<Toadstool> not for a review, sorry
<Bazzi> lionelp: try cbx33 he's motu since today
<phanatic> Toadstool: for an upload maybe? :)
<Toadstool> :)
<lionelp> yeah, thanks Bazzi !
<cbx33> sorry I can't uplaod yet
<lionelp> ping cbx33
<Bazzi> heh
<lionelp> arf :)
<cbx33> my key needs to be signed ;)
<Toadstool> phanatic: I don't upload without reviewing and pdebuilding :p
* Toadstool &
<cbx33> phanatic, neither do I
<superm1> cbx33, would you be able to at least do a revu, and let another MOTU revu and upload later?
<cbx33> I can do a quick scan, but I'm currently in the edubuntu meeting
<cbx33> and try ing to sort out a few last minute changes
<phanatic> Toadstool, cbx33: of course, of course...
<superm1> haha... Ok.  Looking for a look at mythplugins
<cbx33> looing now
<cbx33> superm1, I'm afraid I havn't got the amoutn of time I hoped
<cbx33> I'm not toign to be able to loook at it tonight
<superm1> Oh ok.
<cbx33> sorry dude
<superm1> Not a big deal.  I'll grab another MOTU when they pop around asking what needs to be looked at
<cbx33> first scan looks ok
<superm1> k, well thats good at least then
<superm1> congrats on becoming a motu btw
<cbx33> thanks superm1
<cbx33> superm1, have you pbuilt it yet?
<superm1> yes
<ajmitch> hi Burgundavia
<cbx33> good good
<superm1> brandon took a look last night, and wanted to get another MOTU opinion about it before giving it another look and committing
<keescook> can someone upload my latest debdiff attached to bug 3616?  this solves a crash and the compile failures on sparc and ppc.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 3616 in abuse-sdl "Abuse segfaults immediately on start (amd64)" [High,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3616
<crimsun> sure
<keescook> crimsun: sweet, thanks.
<pygi> Hobbsee_: ping
<cbx33> crimsun, can I pick you brains
<crimsun> cbx33: sure, though I will be lagged in response (phone)
<cbx33> ok....my sound card....currently a crappy onboard NForce2 - seems to only be able to use 48000, JACK is unable to chaneg it
<cbx33> is there a way to change this as all my recordsing for the ubuntu sounds are at 44 in ardour
<cbx33> and are suffering from chipmonk syndrome
<crimsun> so -r 44100 fails?
<cbx33> well in qJACKctl I do th drop down to 22 or 44 and it still starts at 48
<cbx33> crimsun, apparent rate = 44100
<cbx33> creating alsa driver ... hw:0,0|hw:0,0|1024|2|44100|2|2|nomon|swmeter|-|32bit
<cbx33> control device hw:0
<cbx33> configuring for 44100Hz, period = 1024 frames, buffer = 2 periods
<cbx33> but then in qjackctl it runs at 48000
<crimsun> well, the short answer, then, is "maybe". You can try setting up a custom ~/.asoundrc with a rate parameter and then telling [q] jack[ctl]  to use it, but that's not recommended. It actually looks like your hardware is locked to 48000 (quite common for via82xx and intel8x0, as in your case)
<cbx33> grrr
<cbx33> ok
<crimsun> hmm
<crimsun> so qjackctl is displaying two different sampling rates?
<cbx33> well in the messages it says it's running at 44
<crimsun> try passing the values to jack directly
<crimsun> jackd, sorry
<cbx33> but the actual hardware monitor says it's at 48000
<cbx33> ok
<LaserJock> pygi: how's your packaging going?
<cbx33> crimsun, I never ran it manually before ;)
<cbx33> will try now
<pygi> LaserJock: erhm...how do I put that....
<pygi> LaserJock: very bad? :)
<LaserJock> pygi: what's happening?
<cbx33> crimsun, pete      9670  0.4  3.4  36068 36096 ?        SLsl 22:17   0:00 /usr/bin/jackd -R -dalsa -r44100 -p1024 -n2 -D -Chw:0,0 -Phw:0,0 -i2 -o2
<cbx33> i guess that's a no
<pygi> LaserJock: well, other then the fact I lost the touch and I'm useless? :)
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> what package are you working on?
<pygi> LaserJock: brasero
<pygi> LaserJock: the debian folks have some problems:
<pygi> 1)the version is outdated
<pygi> 2)the debian Brasero(Bonfire) maintainer sucks a lot
<pygi> But seems we won't have that package for edgy after all :(
<cbx33> nope it still runs with 48000
<crimsun> cbx33: ok, just to check, what's the output from ``grep VRA /proc/asound/card0/codec97#0/ac97#0-0''?
<LaserJock> you are trying to package a new upstream version?
<cbx33> hang on
<pygi> LaserJock: yup, we dont have that app in Ubuntu
<LaserJock> pygi: but it's in Debian?
<pygi> LaserJock: read above two facts :)
<cbx33> crimsun, nothing
<crimsun> cbx33: bingo.
<superm1> Laserjock would you be able to do a second revu on something lfittl revud/advocated earlier?
<pygi> LaserJock: package is outdated (old version) and trust me, you dont want that package in Ubuntu
<crimsun> cbx33: if the dsp supports it, you'd have something like this:
<crimsun> Extended ID      : codec=0 rev=1 AMAP DSA=0 VRA
<crimsun> Extended status  : VRA
<cbx33> looks like I need a new sound card then
<cbx33> hoo freakin ray
<crimsun> unfortunately, yes
<LaserJock> pygi: right, I'm just trying to understand the package history
<crimsun> (on the other hand, you didn't want that onboard anyhow!)
<cbx33> with like only a few days before release
<cbx33> crimsun, true
<cbx33> but I can't afford a sound card at the mo
<LaserJock> pygi: so why not do a better package and then submit that upstream when you are done?
<pygi> LaserJock: I'm trying to create a better package, you know :) I'm just plainly useless and lost the touch as said above :P
<geser> I'm trying to rebuild gaim-encryption against libnss from firefox. the package builds but doesn't have a depends on libnss
<crimsun> cbx33: where do you guys in the UK normally buy computer hardware online?
<geser> http://www.ubuntuusers.de/paste/3872/ shows the warnings from dh_shlibdeps from pbuilder log
<geser> how do I fix this?
<cbx33> crimsun, I just used scan.co.uk
<LaserJock> pygi: well, don't hesitate to ask here
<cbx33> and sometimes cclonline.com
<pygi> LaserJock: trust me, today nothing can help :)
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> you need more MOTU faith ;-)
<pygi> What I believe that I need is more sleep :)
<cbx33> then sleep my friend
<pygi> cbx33: can't :)
<cbx33> y?
<pygi> wouldn't get anything done then :P
<LaserJock> superm1: what's the URL?
<superm1> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3279
<ajmitch> pygi: sleep? nah, just fix packages
<pygi> ajmitch: As I said, I WOULD if .....
<ajmitch> you shouldn't let yourself get out of touch :P
<pygi> ajmitch: and then you will develop libburn instead of me if I get more up to speed with packaging, right? :)
<ajmitch> of course..
<pygi> LaserJock: it's supposed to be quiet trivial actually if I could just get all the build-deps
<pygi> correctly, ofcourse :)
<pygi> LaserJock: I'll try early morning tommorow, but I doubt it
<pygi> ah well :)
<ajmitch> pygi: should only take a few minutes :)
<pygi> ajmitch: few minutes what?
<ajmitch> getting all the build-deps right for a package
<pygi> you get them then for me pls :)
<adolso1> LaserJock: ping
<LaserJock> adolso1: pong
<adolso1> hi..
<adolso1> do you have a minute to give advice?
<LaserJock> sure, what do you need?
<adolso1> is there a better place to discuss this? I don't wanna pollute the motu guys' environment here
<LaserJock> adolso1: if you nick is registered you can pm me
#ubuntu-motu 2006-09-28
<adolso1> LaserJock: (dolson is me)
<LaserJock> adolso1: join #dolson ;-)
<adolso1> crimsun: do you think that the line "options snd-cmipci mpu_port=0x330 fm_port=0x388" should be added to the /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base file?
<crimsun> adolso1: is there documentation illustrating that it simply won't work across a broad range of boards without it? I'm not aware of any such documentation or bug reports.
<Fujitsu> Yay, my security fix got released :)
<adolso1> crimsun: it just enables the mpu port for CMI cards, that's all. it's documented on the alsa site that it's disabled by default (I didn't see a reason why)
<Fujitsu> And isn't it great... We've now got no time for UniverseFreeze :(
<crimsun> adolso1: if you don't mind, I'd like to postpone it til Edgy+1
<crimsun> please file a bug against alsa-driver
<adolso1> doesn't bother me, just thought I'd mention it. someone in #ubuntu-studio had no MIDI going and I worked through it with him and that was the solution, so thought I'd ask. I'll file a bug for it, sure
<crimsun> thanks. I'm much more comfortable changing it post-release.
<adolso1> yeah, it's pretty late, I understand
<adolso1> it's the first time I've run into it so far anyhow.. who buys CMI cards these days? :)
<crimsun> :)
<adolso1> I'm so hungry
<adolso1> I typed lunchpad.net instead of launchpad.net
<sivang> hehe
* sivang ROTFLS at this late hour
<Fujitsu> sivang, where are you?
<sivang> Fujitsu: GMT+2
<Fujitsu> sivang, aha. Not toooo bad.
<sivang> Fujitsu: sort of, is getting late as we speak :)
<Fujitsu> Yup.
<LaserJock> adolso1: I do that all the time
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, have you had a look at bug #62688? I think it warrants a sync, even at this stage.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62688 in sdcc "Out of sync with debian" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62688
* ajmitch has some keyword bookmarks in firefox
<ajmitch> so I usually just type something like 'lp f-spot/+bugs'
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: I haven't
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: I just commented on it
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, when? There's another comment after yours...
<ajmitch> yes, and they're all within a few minutes of each other
<Fujitsu> Yeah, I just noticed...
* ajmitch might as well not bother looking at incoming bugs then :)
<Fujitsu> Better hardware support, extra stuff for PICs..
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: you're a motu, you can file a sync request if you want
<Fujitsu> I'm planning to, just test building.
<superm1> LaserJock, did you take a look at backstep?
<LaserJock> superm1: yeah, got a few comments
<LaserJock> will have them on revu shortly
<superm1> k
<lionelp> LaserJock: can you have a look on a package on REVU that dholbach advocated for me ?
<geser> how are the chances to get a new upstream version (sync from debian and fixing several cve's) into universe after the freeze?
<crimsun> geser: quite high
<Fujitsu> geser, if it's fixing CVEs, very high.
<superm1> what are CVEs?
<Fujitsu> Common Vulnerability Esomethings
<superm1> ah
<geser> it's php4, the debian changelog mentions 4 cve's
<geser> but it fails to build as it build-depends on libdb4.4-dev and libdb4.3-dev
<Fujitsu> Aha: `Common Vulnerabilities and Exposures'
<superm1> so what qualifies something to be a CVE then? a security team finds it?
<Burgundavia> superm1: CVEs are issed by MITRE
<superm1> and MITRE is who?
<Burgundavia> another org
<Burgundavia> google it
<LaserJock> lionelp: what's the URL?
<LaserJock> superm1: comments sent
<superm1> k thx.
<lionelp> LaserJock: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3207
<joejaxx> LaserJock: do you know the symlink and path of the firefox homepage for ubuntu?
<joejaxx> LaserJock: it is /etc/alternatives something
<joejaxx> LaserJock: and /usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/homepage/index.html?
<LaserJock> joejaxx: I believe that's it
<superm1> firefox-homepage -> /usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/firefox-index.html
<LaserJock> it's handled by update-alternatives
<joejaxx> LaserJock: what is the symlink though
<joejaxx> LaserJock: i have to do it manually
<joejaxx> superm1: i am talking about dapper also
<LaserJock> joejaxx: update-alternatives should do that
<superm1> joejaxx, i was saying that is what my dapper machine has.
<LaserJock> take a look at the postinst script for ubuntu-docs
<joejaxx> LaserJock: so should i just do sudo update-alternatives --all manually?
<joejaxx> superm1: oh alright
<LaserJock> joejaxx: what are you trying to do?
<joejaxx> LaserJock: set the firefox homepage to something else
* rideout is listening to And She Was by Talking Heads [amarok] 
<joejaxx> LaserJock: right now it is looking for that html file which does not exist
<LaserJock> joejaxx: but is this in a package or just on your computer?
<joejaxx> LaserJock: chroot'd into a cd filesystem
<LaserJock> and you have an .html file to give it?
<joejaxx> LaserJock: yes i do
<LaserJock> joejaxx: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/25019/
<joejaxx> LaserJock: thanks
<Fujitsu> lionelp, I've commented on it.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: :p
<joejaxx> LaserJock: wait
<LaserJock> I was just going to ack it
<joejaxx> LaserJock: why is the ubuntu-artwork directory in there?
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: ahhh good point
<LaserJock> joejaxx: because that's where firefox looks
<joejaxx> LaserJock: i see that is the way it is compiled i presume?
<LaserJock> yeah
<lionelp> LaserJock: I am going to correct the first point
<Fujitsu> lionelp, you need to get upstream to correct the second point.
<lionelp> for the second one, I'll contact upstream
<Fujitsu> Yes.
<lionelp> so not for Edgy probabily...
<Fujitsu> Otherwise, it looks good.
<Fujitsu> When I had this same issue, upstream released a new version in 8 hours :)
<lionelp> :)
<lionelp> thanks for your help
<lionelp> sending a mail right now :)
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: do you have time to sync sdcc?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, I've requested it...
<Fujitsu> I've got the next 12 hours or so at my disposal, so I can do basically anything.
<LaserJock> fix Universe kthxbye ;-)
<Fujitsu> Yeah, I'm sorta looking for bugs to fix.
<joejaxx> LaserJock:
<crimsun> rideout: (you probably want to disable that public announce, cf 13 mins ago)
<joejaxx> update-alternatives: unable to make /usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/index.html.dpkg-tmp a symlink to /etc/alternatives/firefox-homepage: No such file or directory
<rideout> crimsun: already have, i forgot the script was enabled in in amarok when i opened it
<LaserJock> joejaxx: what did you run?
<joejaxx> LaserJock: that commandline you gave me
<LaserJock> what was the path to your index.html?
<joejaxx> LaserJock: /usr/share/fluxbuntu-artwork/home/index.html
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> so does /usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/ exist?
<joejaxx> LaserJock: nope
<joejaxx> LaserJock: that was wiped along time ago
<joejaxx> LaserJock: should i recreate it and run the commandline once again? or just copy the index to ubuntu-artwork/home/*
<LaserJock> nah, just do mkdir -p /usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home
<joejaxx> LaserJock: ok it worked
<joejaxx> LaserJock: what is the default resolution for the ubuntu-usplash do you know?
<joejaxx> LaserJock: well the vga= flag?
<LaserJock> not sure
<joejaxx> oh ok
<joejaxx> LaserJock: may i pm?
<LaserJock> joejaxx: sure
<ala1> Does anyone know if enlightenment is being developed?
<crimsun> upstream, certainly
<ala1> I haven't seen any dev files...are there any?
<crimsun> what do you mean by 'dev files'?
<ala1> source code
<crimsun> as in ``apt-get source enlightenment'' or what's linked from www.enlightenment.org ?
<ala1> oh ok cool...
<ala1> got it thanks
<azeem> why did goffice got synced from experimental rather than unstable?
<Fujitsu> azeem, because some asked, I suppose...
<Fujitsu> *someone
<Fujitsu> Some packages will be synced from experimental sometimes, but only with good reason.
<minghua> maybe goffice is good to go but just waiting for GTK 2.10 in debian?
<minghua> (not that I know anything, just a wild guess)
<azeem> the changelog says "Merge with debian unstable"
<Fujitsu> Somebody stuffed up somewhere along the line.
<minghua> that sucks, then
<minghua> I didn't find anything in malone either
<minghua> no sync request
<azeem> I further wonder why goffice's lib got renamed from libgoffice-1-2 to libgoffice-0-3
<azeem> but oh well
<slomo_> azeem: ask Gloubiboulga when he's back... iirc he did it or at least should know about it
<azeem> only gnumeric needs it anyway
<slomo_> or dholbach
<azeem> (and gnome-chemistry-utils=
<slomo_> criawips will need it too after it finally built again ;)
<minghua> azeem: that is a Debian thing
<azeem> probably in order to get gnumeric_1.7 in
<minghua> * [debian/*]  Follow upstream versioning change for the development version.
<azeem> uh-huh
<azeem> are they going to rev back to -1-3 once stable?
<minghua> and 0.3.x series are the development releases, it seems
<azeem> yeah
<azeem> thus experimental
<azeem> well, at least I don't to worry about gnome-chemistry-utils anymore, it needs libgoffice-1-dev
<azeem> +have
<minghua> yeah, I don't understand the -dev package name change either
<azeem> minghua: it's probably to make people *not* use it in production :)
<azeem> so PKG_CHECK_MODULES fails already
<minghua> azeem: :-)  very possible
<Fujitsu> Bye, Laser_away.
<Laser_away> Fujitsu: we have a new Science Talk subforum on ubuntuforums.org
<ajmitch> yay
<Fujitsu> :/
* Fujitsu looks.
<ajmitch> he always manages to go away & then still talk
<Laser_away> I see a post today asking why Mathematica doesn't work with XGL
<Fujitsu> I might have to visit the forums now... I think I might have an account.
<ajmitch> some skill he has :)
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, I know, it's amazing.
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: don't, please
<ajmitch> keep your sanity here
<Laser_away> ajmitch: dude, I try, it takes me like 3 of 4 tries to actually leave
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> a sure sign of addiction
* Laser_away won't mention he just started a new thread an mentioned Fujitsu's MOTUship
<Laser_away> oh wait, I just did ;-)
<Fujitsu> :O
<Fujitsu> I got my password right.
<Fujitsu> I haven't logged in in like 7 months.
<Laser_away> oh man
<Laser_away> don't look too closely
<Laser_away> it's nasty in there
<Fujitsu> ?
<Laser_away> the forums
<Laser_away> you don't have to go very far to find something totally absurd
<Fujitsu> Hehe, I know.
* Laser_away is really away now
<Laser_away> honest
<ajmitch>  whenever I need demotivation, I look on the forrums
<ajmitch> bye Laser_away :)
<Fujitsu> Bye, Laser_away.
<Fujitsu> Hi Burgundavia.
<ajmitch> hi Burgundavia :)
<Burgundavia> hey Fujitsu, aj
* ajmitch wonders where Burgundavia is now
<Fujitsu> Hey, he's not aj.
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: still colorado
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: I'm not?
<Fujitsu> No, you're not!
<Fujitsu> Anthony Towns' nick is actually aj, so you can't be shortened to it :P
<ajmitch> close enough
* Fujitsu hopes that Science Talk will stay sane.
<Fujitsu> Although it's absolutely impossible.
<imbrandon> oh wtf i give up, this packages is driving me batty
<imbrandon> why on gods green earth would a package call "ccache g++ ..." and i cant find ccache ANYWHERE greping the files
<imbrandon> i'm not about to make this thing depend on ccache
<crimsun> which package?
<imbrandon> mythplugins ( from debian-multimedia.org ) , its newer than superm1's from revu
<imbrandon> i was gonna try to sqeeze it in
<imbrandon> but the one on revu does it too
<crimsun> 0.20-0.4?
<imbrandon> yea
* crimsun waits for it to down via wget
<imbrandon> but .20-0.2 does it from revu for me also
<imbrandon> so its something they have in common
<imbrandon> i'd like to get it in before tomarrow to match the mythtv package
<crimsun> I wouldn't worry so much about UF for it
<crimsun> you basically /have/ to have matching versions for it to be functional
<imbrandon> right
<imbrandon> well its functional but realy realy limited
<imbrandon> with out
<crimsun> do you have ccache installed?
<imbrandon> no
<imbrandon> it was building in a pbuilder
<imbrandon> but i dont have in installed since i reloaded
<imbrandon> hrm actualy i do have it installed localy, but i was building this in a pbuilder
<imbrandon> so it shouldent effect it right ( since its NOT installed in the pbuilder )
<crimsun> if you're not scrubbing environment variables, it's quite possible it's affecting it
<crimsun> I don't normally build with ccache
<imbrandon> hrm ok lemme purge it and start a new build, afaik the env is scrubbed with pbuilder , or so i thought
<ajmitch> not always
<ajmitch> most variables are
<nixternal> anyone have some time to revu a couple of packages, or is it to late?
<ajmitch> this is why we need to magic of xen :)
<ajmitch> s/to/the/
<nixternal> hehe
<imbrandon> ;)
<ajmitch> nixternal: how much are you offering?
<nixternal> a case of virtual beer, of your choice ;)
<nixternal> 2 cases?
<ajmitch> haha
<imbrandon> ok so short of a reboot , after i purged removed ccache from my local install how can i be sure the env is clean of it
<nixternal> fine, i will give you imbrandon's wig collection
<imbrandon> wig?
* ajmitch doesn't have much time until tonight anyway
<nixternal> ;)
<imbrandon> is there a bash command to list all set env vars ?
<nixternal> env | more
<nixternal> is that what you were looking for?
<imbrandon> makin sure all traces of ccache are gone before i rebuild something
<imbrandon> nixternal, shoot the urls in here for the packages, i'll look them over if i finish this mythtv stuff
<imbrandon> if not that gives someone else the chance to
<crimsun> imbrandon: looks like qmake is generating it
<imbrandon> hrm so you get the ccache stuff too, its not a locacl issue but something with qmake ?
<imbrandon> local*
<crimsun> correct
<imbrandon> i have another build running but its still considering --> trying ... etc etc etc
<crimsun> yeah, it takes 8 minutes to resolve all those deps here
<crimsun> build-deps, rather
<imbrandon> yea thats nuts, i wish we could speed that up, it often takes longer to do that then actualy build
<minghua> who did I talk with about my "dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg" doesn't work here a few days ago?
<minghua> I think I have some idea now (BTW I am talking about Debian)
<imbrandon> minghua, we spoke of it about in sid a week or so ago
<minghua> there is this ridiculous business in xserver-xorg.postinst:
<imbrandon> we as in me and you ( i think ajmitch even chimed in about talking aobut debian iirc heheh )
<minghua>   if [ "$(readlink "$SERVER_SYMLINK" | md5sum)" = \
<minghua>        "$(cat "$SERVER_SYMLINK_CHECKSUM")" ]  || \
<minghua>      [ "$(echo "/usr/X11R6/bin/Xorg" | md5sum)" = \
<minghua>        "$(cat "$SERVER_SYMLINK_CHECKSUM")" ]  || \
<minghua>      [ "$(echo "/usr/bin/X11/Xorg" | md5sum)" = \
<minghua>        "$(cat "$SERVER_SYMLINK_CHECKSUM")" ]  || \
<minghua>      ! [ -e "$SERVER_SYMLINK" ] ; then
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about e "$SERVER_SYMLINK" ] ; then - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<minghua> imbrandon: good, now let me show you my discovery
<imbrandon> wow
<imbrandon> pastebin might be good for something that long
<minghua> and in all my testing/unstable systems, my /etc/X11/X (which is the $SERVER_SYMLINK" the postinst talks about) links to /usr/bin/Xorg
<imbrandon> k
<nixternal> REVU ->  http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3142 | http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3148 | http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3168 | http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3147 | http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3164
<nixternal> there you go imbrandon ^^
<crimsun> sure glad I'm not imbrandon.
<nixternal> if there is something up. let me know and when i get home i can fix them up..actually i can fix them up now
<minghua> so whenever I dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg, I got "xserver-xorg postinst warning: not updating /etc/X11/X; file has been customized"
<imbrandon> hahaha
<imbrandon> @ crimsun
<ubuntu-es> imbrandon: Error: "crimsun" is not a valid command.
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o imbrandon]  by ChanServ
<nixternal> haha
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+b %ubuntu-es!*@*]  by imbrandon
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o imbrandon]  by imbrandon
<imbrandon> +q works wonders
<minghua> imbrandon: still, after fixing that md5sum, my dpkg-reconfigure still doesn't work (but it doesn't give out warning anymore, so we can call it progress)
<imbrandon> minghua, true
<minghua> oh BTW, above those lines in xserver-xorg.postinst, I found this comment:
<imbrandon> minghua, although i know very very little about X , i just know it DOES work in ubuntu, so you might look at the diffrences
<minghua> "# why, why, why, why, why, why, why are we md5suming this? -daniels"
<minghua> :-)
<imbrandon> lol
<minghua> imbrandon: yes I will, and when I am sure I understand things correctly, I'll report bugs
<imbrandon> ;)
* imbrandon tries to find something else that builds with qmake
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, you're back already?
<imbrandon> its not 5am , he's still here ;)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: hm, what'd I say?
<imbrandon> ajmitch, dont rember exactly, something to the tone of " and if we were talking about ubuntu in a debian channel ...." as a joke
<ajmitch> oh right
<ajmitch> that you'd be flamed to a crisp, etc
<imbrandon> yup yup ;)
* ajmitch gets back to fighting sql & php
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> $result = mysql_query ("select * from admin")
<imbrandon> done ;)
<ajmitch> no, more nasty joins & the like
<LaserJock> I'm always here
<imbrandon> ouch heh
<imbrandon> ahhh i think i might have found the issue crimsun, comfirming now
<LaserJock> crimsun: do yo run Xubuntu generally?
<crimsun> it's more a mutt than anything
<crimsun> sometimes it's KDE, others Xfce, others GNOME, others larswm, others fluxbox, etc.
<LaserJock> WM of the day
<crimsun> well, normally I just switch wms to try and reproduce certainly usability issues for alsa
<LaserJock> ah
<crimsun> then I get busy and forget to switch "back"
<minghua> I assume alsa can't be tested in vserver/xen/vmware/etc. then
<crimsun> not the backend but the config stuff
<crimsun> a VM would be slight overkill
<minghua> I used to switch between GNOME/KDE to test scim
<minghua> which I really hated to do
<LaserJock> I'd like to find a lighter desktop that I don't have to manually add menu items too
<LaserJock> I like openbox except for that
<crimsun> xfdesktop4 does adhere to the fd.o spec.
<imbrandon> well i thought i had it grrr
<imbrandon> also you can use like fluxbox with kde/gnome , kwin and metacity are REQUIRED for the DE
<imbrandon> so you get a good mix
<imbrandon> s/are/arent
<minghua> oh, that makes sense now
<imbrandon> Seveas, you rock ( for the {faster,cleaner} pastebin )
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> hmm, I wish xfce4 was a little easier to install
<imbrandon> apt-get install xubuntu-desktop ;)
<crimsun> as in 'apt-get install xfce4'
<crimsun> (I don't use xubuntu-desktop, only xfce4)
<LaserJock> well now, as in I'm not sure if I'll want to keep it
<crimsun> so you really meant you wish it was a little easier to uninstall?
<LaserJock> hehe
<LaserJock> I guess so
<imbrandon> ;)
<crimsun> edgy's apt-get does that with autoremove
<lastnode> why not use aptitude?
<lastnode> removes deps no?
<crimsun> you could use aptitude, too
<LaserJock> yeah, I'm a little wary of autoremove and aptitude
<imbrandon> aptitude == tried to be too smart for my tastes
<crimsun> apt-get does not default to installing Recommends
<crimsun> sorry, does not /yet/
<LaserJock> doesn't it now?
<crimsun> no
<lastnode> imbrandon, heh, i know what you mean. :-)
<LaserJock> I thought it do already
<LaserJock> *did
<imbrandon> not /yet/
* imbrandon will miss they day when it finaly does ;'(
<crimsun> - currently Install-Recommends defaults to "False"
<crimsun> Wed,  9 Aug 2006 23:38:46 +0200
<imbrandon> ugh i'm begning to hate qmake, there are like 5000000 qmake.confs installed
<crimsun> no, you love it. Go Qt!
<imbrandon> heh
* minghua likes aptitude but always turns Install-Recommends off
<lupine_85> sorry, can anyone point me towards a semi-decent introduction to dpatch?
<crimsun> System> Help> System Documentation> Packaging Guide
<minghua> lupine_85: dpatch(1) man page is not decent enough for you?
<lupine_85> nope :( and <-- KDE
<lupine_85> F1...
<imbrandon> lupine_85, i got the tv card today , but i'm a little puzzled about the tv input heh it must be a pal thing
<crimsun> no excuse, https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
<lupine_85> imbrandon: they don't usually look like that over here - IIRC there was a little dongle that got lost in the mists of time
<imbrandon> lupine_85, kde is " f1 , kubuntu docs, packageing guide "
<imbrandon> lupine_85, ahh thats why i have the confusion, i was like wtf heh
<imbrandon> looks like a single rca input
<lupine_85> the dongle didn't do anything clever - it was just co-ax in
<imbrandon> ohh rain, and thunder
<lupine_85> thanks for the linky :)
* lupine_85 is trying to slip this one in before universe freeze.. thinks he'll fail
<LaserJock> lupine_85: are you running edgy?
<lupine_85> yes
<nixternal> imbrandon: it is storming there?
<imbrandon> yea just started
<nixternal> great, so no mowing the lawn for me tomorrow
<imbrandon> hum i wonder if i could hack a cable togather for this
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, horatio going down for about ~20 minutes, you dont have any builds going do you ?
* LaserJock makes aptitude happy and install xfce
<imbrandon> oh nice
<imbrandon> brandon@horatio:~$ sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
<imbrandon> Reading package lists... Done
<imbrandon> Segmentation faulty tree... 0%
<imbrandon> someone please tell me this is a known issue
<LaserJock> what the heck ?
<ajmitch> imbrandon: recent apt update?
<imbrandon> ajmitch, yea about an hour ago
<ajmitch> right.. may wish to bring it to someone's attention if you're sure that you have the right versions installed
<imbrandon> brandon@horatio:~$ apt-get --version
<imbrandon> apt 0.6.45ubuntu14 for linux i386 compiled on Sep 27 2006 23:43:26
<imbrandon> whats your say ? just to check
<ajmitch> and libapt?
* ajmitch hasn't updated today
<minghua> there is debian bug #388708, but probably unrelated
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 388708 in apt "apt: Upgrading to this version makes status file unparseable" [Grave,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/388708
<ajmitch> minghua: probably quite unrelated
<imbrandon> brandon@horatio:~$ dpkg -l |grep ii|grep libapt
<imbrandon> ii  python-apt                                 0.6.19ubuntu5                        Python interface to libapt-pkg
<ajmitch> hi Hobbsee
<imbrandon> brandon@horatio:~$
<imbrandon> no libapt
<ajmitch> you will have a libapt-pkg-something
<imbrandon> heya Hobbsee
* ajmitch updates apt
<imbrandon> umm i cant search for the package name
<imbrandon> atm
<imbrandon> lol
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch
<Hobbsee> hi imbrandon
<ajmitch> imbrandon: no segfault for me
<imbrandon> hrm
* imbrandon kicks his system for good mesure
<imbrandon> yea on my ppc no issue either
<imbrandon> strange
<ajmitch> phew
<ajmitch> not something to hold up the beta then :)
<ajmitch> try gdb
<lupine_85> sorry, no doubt I'm being annoying... but tired. in rules I have build: build-stamp ... can I change it to build: build-stamp: patch ?
<lupine_85> or just get rid of build-stamp?
<minghua> I am pretty sure build: build-stamp: patch won't work
<minghua> you can only have one colon there
<lupine_85> I was thinking that too
<lupine_85> makefiles are my nemesis
<minghua> lupine_85: I suppose it depends on what you want to do
<lupine_85> right now build-stamp does the build work, and depends on configure-stamp. build just depends on build-stamp
<lupine_85> I want to patch after configure-stamp, but before build-stamp
<imbrandon> ajmitch, wow looks like i might not be the only one http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=266566&highlight=apt-get+segfault
<imbrandon> *thinks*
<minghua> lupine_85: I still don't understand why /usr/share/doc/dpatch/examples/rules/rules/rules.new.dh.gz is not good enough for you
<lupine_85> ...I haven't seen that...
<minghua> lupine_85: in that case build-stamp should depends on patch (as the example above shows)
<imbrandon> ugh ok reboot , brb
<minghua> lupine_85: I take back what I just said
<minghua> lupine_85: apparently you want to apply patch _after_ configure, which is not what the example shows
<lupine_85> erm, sorry. I'm half asleep and still have the old method I wanted stuck in my head. It should be before configure, yes
<lupine_85> the script looks like it does what it should do - I'm just getting my head around it
<LaserJock> ohhh, this is nice
<lupine_85> ah... so I can do "configure-stamp: patch" and "clean: unpatch"...
<lupine_85> don't suppose anyone can take a peek at http:///ubuntu.lupine.me.uk/rules ?
<lupine_85> I "think" it's right
<LaserJock> lupine_85: build it and see if the files go where you want them to
<minghua> lupine_85: the dependency looks good to me, but are you sure "./configure.sh --prefix=$(CURDIR)/debian/rutilt/usr" is correct?
<LaserJock> lupine_85: and then remove the commented out dh_* lines
<lupine_85> the files will always go to the right places :)
<lupine_85> the prefix is defintiely correct
<ajmitch> lupine_85: that prefix doesn't look correct
<ajmitch> you'd usually want configure --prefix=/usr
<ajmitch> and make install DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/rutilt
<lupine_85> if I specify prefix=/usr, it will create a dir in /usr
<lupine_85> DESTDIR doesn't exist
<joejaxx> LaserJock: http://shots.fluxbuntu.org/nbuild1-rev2/ :)
<lupine_85> instead we have > 20 environment variables which are dynamically generated by the configure script, and which depend on --prefix
<ajmitch> that is not nice
<lupine_85> yep :(
<lupine_85> two main targets - where it puts the files, and the paths compiled into the kernel
<lupine_85> erm, binary
<ajmitch> which is generally why there's the prefix/DESTDIR split for other packages
<minghua> lupine_85: okay then.  but that definitely sounds a broken upstream build system to me
<lupine_85> it is very cr*p ;)
<ajmitch> so that you don't get bad paths in the resulting binary or configs
* lupine_85 didn't write the program :(
<lupine_85> IMO, compiling paths into the binary is broken anyway
<LaserJock> joejaxx: way cool
<lupine_85> so... can I use sed on a file in debian/patches?
<joejaxx> LaserJock: :)
<lupine_85> oh, wait. I don't have to
<minghua> how do you use sed in a patch?
<lupine_85> still stuck in the 'old' way
<lupine_85> on, not in ;). but it's irrelevant
<LaserJock> lupine_85: my first package had the exact same problem
<lupine_85> (the original idea was to patch the file created by configure.sh, btw)
<minghua> oh, I think I understand what lupine_85 means now
<minghua> something like debian/patches/patch-xxx.in, I suppose
<lupine_85> a static patch of the configure.sh should work fine
<lupine_85> now... if I get the manpage working, I should be done
<lupine_85> woohoo, the patch works :)
<Fujitsu> :O
<LaserJock> hehe
* LaserJock notices that ragingubuntuholic.com is available ;-)
<lupine_85> cor
<Fujitsu> Hahah.
* Fujitsu purchases :P
* Fujitsu donates to bddebian.
<lupine_85> so... I've got the manpage gzip -9'd; debian/manpages was mentioned - do I just put the name of the file (rutilt.1.gz) into it?
<Fujitsu> BddebianIsAGod gets a proper website!
<lupine_85> some of these guides are incredibly vague ;)
<imbrandon> ragingubuntuaholic is LaserJock ;)
<Fujitsu> I guess so, bddebian did exceed godliness a while ago, so it's not suitable for him
* ajmitch wonder what title Fujitsu has earned
<imbrandon> hum
<imbrandon> master of the universe ? hehe
<Fujitsu> Little not-quite-so-nothing Fujitsu?
<ajmitch> imbrandon: too common
<imbrandon> true
<Fujitsu> I'm not even in the motu group on LP :(
<imbrandon> hehi dont think i am either
<Fujitsu> Last additions were in May.
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: so?
<ajmitch> nobody uses the motu group there
<imbrandon> why is there a motu group on LP anyhow
<ajmitch> originally for bug assignments
<imbrandon> ahh
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, and indeed still used for bug assignments.
<ajmitch> with bug contacts, it's not so needed
<minghua> lupine_85: do you use debhelper?
<lupine_85> never heard of it
<minghua> lupine_85: http://ubuntu.lupine.me.uk/rules is your debian/rules file, isn't it?
<lupine_85> dh_installdocs?
<lupine_85> yes
<minghua> in that case you should read dh_installman(1) man page
<minghua> my package doesn't gzip the man page manually, dh_installman is supposed to do that
<lupine_85> ok... I'm still getting to grips with all this makefile wizardry ;)
<lupine_85> thanks for being patient with me
<imbrandon> lspci is supose to list all pci cards weather a driver is loaded or not correct ?
<minghua> I think dh_compress does the gzip rather than dh_installman, but either way
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: yeah, else it jus tshows as unknown, iirc
<lupine_85> ok
<minghua> lupine_85: oh and FYI, the dh_* programs comes from a package called debhelper
* minghua wonders which packaging guide lupine_85 is reading
<minghua> hope not LaserJock's
<lupine_85> bits and pieces scattered all over - debian.org, primarily
<Fujitsu> Hey Hobbsee.
<minghua> !packaging-guide
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about packaging-guide - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<minghua> hmm
<Fujitsu> !packaginguide
<Fujitsu> Oops.
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about packaginguide - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<Fujitsu> I left out a g.
<Fujitsu> !packagingguide
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
<Fujitsu> There we go.
<lupine_85> yes, that one too :)
<Hobbsee> hi Fujitsu
<minghua> Hmm, the debhelper chapter in packaging guide doesn't seem very good
<Fujitsu> What's this? Do I hear somebody volunteering to improve it?
<Fujitsu> :P
<lupine_85> ok... hopefully the final build...
<lupine_85> then I can get on with building amd64 binaries for beryl ;)
<minghua> Fujitsu: too much work, too little time :-)
<LaserJock> haha
<lupine_85> bwahahahah! we have a manpage
<Fujitsu> Which package, lupine_85?
<lupine_85> rutilt
<lupine_85> signing and uploading any time now
<LaserJock> hmm, I'm a little confused by mdz's -devel email
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, it needs more context, and is incredibly random, but I get the drift.
<LaserJock> do we have a Beta or no? it looks like no to me
<crimsun> not yet.
<crimsun> it's a status update
<Fujitsu> Not yet, no.
<Fujitsu> crimsun, a very partial and random one.
<lupine_85> ok... uploaded
<lupine_85> I will brb, I have to boot into amd64
<TheMuso> Hey all.
<Fujitsu> Hi TheMuso.
<imbrandon> ello TheMuso
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: crimsun who does the acking for ubuntu-universe-sponsors team, apart from myself?
<Hobbsee> it occurs to me that we have at least 3 non-MOTU's on that list.
<crimsun> although I'm pleased Fujitsu is dipping his toe into the water as far as u-u-s
<LaserJock> on ubuntu-universe-sponsors?
<lastnode> imbrandon, let me know when you've got a moment?
<Fujitsu> crimsun, am I?
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: yep
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: your team *was* an open team that random people were joining
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: ahhhh....
<Fujitsu> So kick 'em out :)
<Hobbsee> hehe i'm thinking about doing that.
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: I set it to modaerated, but haven't dropped the non-MOTUs
* ajmitch cannae spell today
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: yeah, fair enough.  clearly my launchpad-team-management foo isnt good.
<nixternal> anyone else having issues with hplip?
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: you should deactivate the non-MOTUs
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: that's what i'm doing now
* Fujitsu grabs the team and hits Join.
<Hobbsee> done :)
<ajmitch> you scared off bddebian
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: ack'd
<Fujitsu> That was quick :)
<Hobbsee> hehe - i was there
<Hobbsee> the only reason i was there was that i just approved mez
* Hobbsee notes that she isnt actually in MOTU or motu-reviewers
<Hobbsee> ewww...you have to be added by one of the admins.  dodgy.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, none of the new people.
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: of which team?
<Fujitsu> (I brought that up a while ago)
<Hobbsee> https://launchpad.net/people/motu
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: hmmm?
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: is that a problem?
<Hobbsee> no
<Hobbsee> i was just surprised
<Hobbsee> *wonders why we have a MOTU team and a ubuntu-dev team
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, I brought that up earlier this morning.
<crimsun> the former is historical (bug triaging)
<ajmitch> historical reasons - motu team was created before we had ubuntu-dev
<Hobbsee> ahhh
<Fujitsu> But the ubuntu-dev icon is so boring :(
<Hobbsee> hehe
<ajmitch> and they had to use ubuntu-dev because it's controlled by the tech board
<ajmitch> and membership grants upload rights
* Hobbsee nods
<Hobbsee> yeah
<ajmitch> we were the first users of malone
<LaserJock> MOTU is da bomb ;-)
<ajmitch> which was quite confusing for awhile - main bugs in bugzilla, all others in malone
<crimsun> ah, I remember the days when attempting to log into LP caused an OOPS
<Fujitsu> crimsun, hahah.
<ajmitch> or even just looking at it funny
<ajmitch> which we did a lot of
<ajmitch> it was rough
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, it still can be, at times.
<ajmitch> now it's smooth & polished compared to what it once was
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: hehe, point
<ajmitch> you kids don't know how lucky you are
* lupine_85 guesses a 5:26am revu is too much to ask ;)
* crimsun hobbles around with his cane
<ajmitch> lupine_85: yes
<Fujitsu> I'm not quite a kid, but not far off, ajmitch :P
<lupine_85> np then :)
<ajmitch> lupine_85: however it's not 5:26AM for everyone hwere
<Fujitsu> 2:27pm here :)
<ajmitch> Hobbsee & Fujitsu want to review stuff
<Hobbsee> no i dont!!  :P
<crimsun> tehe
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, oh yes, of course.
<lupine_85> hmm
<Fujitsu> I'll do it, if you want.
<lupine_85> where's it gone?
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: you offered earlier
<lupine_85> it's not on revu any more
<lupine_85>  /panic!
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: yes, get to it
* Hobbsee steals ajmitch and crimsun's canes
* Fujitsu hits Hobbsee with those canes.
* Hobbsee attacks Fujitsu with her long and pointy stick
<Fujitsu> :O
<Fujitsu> Not again.
<Fujitsu> I should have expected that.
* LaserJock grabs Fujitsu and Hobbsee by the ears and points them to REVU ;-)
* Fujitsu easily evades it with his MOTU powers.
* Fujitsu squirms and yells `gerrof'
* Hobbsee roasts LaserJock over a bonfire.
* Fujitsu joins in.
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> I'm a raging ubuntu-holic MOTU, fire doesn't hurt me ;-)
<Fujitsu> Darn, of course.
* Fujitsu forces LaserJock away from Ubuntu.
<TheMuso> Is it just me or is the publisher not running/has not been running etc?
<Fujitsu> There, fixed.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso, we're frozen for beta, so everything has to be approved manually.
<TheMuso> Right.,
<TheMuso> Just haven't seen a package that crimsun uploaded for me yesterday
<TheMuso> built k but not on mirrors etc
<TheMuso> ok
<crimsun> TheMuso: furthermore, any source package generating new binaries won't pass binary NEW until post-beta release
<TheMuso> crimsun: Ah right.
<TheMuso> Thanks
<Fujitsu> Ah, it's NEW.
<lupine_85> so is there any particular reason why rutilt might vanish from revu ?
<LaserJock> somebody ate it
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: the source package isn't, but there are new binary packages
<Fujitsu> It's archived, lupine_85.
<lupine_85> is that good or bad? ;)
<Fujitsu> But it should automagically unarchive when you upload a new release.
<lupine_85> hmm, I thought I'd just done that...
* lupine_85 re-uploaded
<lupine_85> ^H^Hs
<imbrandon> haha i hate to poke fun at debian too much but i just read a hilarious comment about intels new 80 core processors they are promising over the next 5 years, quote " I hope it dosent work in 'committie' mode like debian and slow down to a crawl ... "
<minghua> that's not fair
<lupine_85> hope all 80 CPUs don't share the same memory bus
<imbrandon> lupine_85, i'm sure the bus issues will be taken care of by then hopefully
<lupine_85> hehe
<imbrandon> with that laser stuff , who knows
<minghua> debian doesn't have committee, it only has cabal :-)
<imbrandon> minghua, yea but the point of the snide remark was funny
<minghua> well, it's easy to have cheap shots on Debian these days
* minghua was not happy to see a Debian BTS ping-pong on planet.gnome.org yesterday
<Fujitsu> There we go, lupine_85.
<minghua> s/a/a remark on/
<lupine_85> woo :)
* lupine_85 thinks he fixed everything in the last revu
<Fujitsu> lupine_85, is there any reason you don't just set $helper_prefix, $ip_script_prefix and $icon_prefix, rather than removing the references to them entirely?
<lupine_85> yes
<lupine_85> they are used by the install script, AFAICT
<lupine_85> via Makefile_cst
<lupine_85> since the paths in StaticSettings.h never change, it's much easier to make them static than it is to unpick the rather nasty web around those variables
<Fujitsu> OK, it all looks pretty good, except for the changelog. It's generally a good idea to have the changelog have a line like so:
<Fujitsu>  * XX_whatever.dpatch: Does whatever.
<lupine_85> ok
<lupine_85> you want me to edit?
<Fujitsu> rather than just saying `Patch 01: does whatever' in that line.
<Fujitsu> Yes, that'd be good.
<lupine_85> ok, 1 second...
<Fujitsu> Makes it easier to read the changelog.
<Fujitsu> Otherwise, it looks OK...
<Fujitsu> Hm.
<Fujitsu> But it doesn't build.
<Fujitsu> I suspect it's because I'm running an old kernel, while the pbuilder has the new headers...
<lupine_85> I was told to add linux-kernel-headers as the dependency to fix that...
<Fujitsu> Wait a sec, testing it on another machine.
<lupine_85> it builds here, but I already have all the headers installed
<lupine_85> is the actual description OK, or should I add some explanation about why the patch is fixing the paths?
<Fujitsu> It might be a good idea to add that in the description inside the patch itself. There's a field for it.
<Fujitsu> A description of why it does it isn't really necessary in the changelog.
<lupine_85> ok
<lupine_85> is it building? or is linux-kernel-headers wrong?
<Fujitsu> I'll be able to tell you in about 40 seconds...
<lupine_85> ok :)
<Fujitsu> Nope, still broken.
<lupine_85> aargh
<Fujitsu> It's because the header version in the pbuilder doesn't match that on the build system.
<lupine_85> should I add a dependency for linux-headers-2.6.17-10 ? or is it going to be more involved than that?
<minghua> are we talking about a kernel module or a userspace program?
<minghua> from what I understand, kernel module should user linux-headers-*, user space program should use linux-kernel-headers
<lupine_85> it's a userspace program, but it builds against the WEXT stuff
<ajmitch> minghua: linux-libc-dev, not l-k-h now
<minghua> ajmitch: oh, I see, that's a so much better name
<ajmitch> less confusion
<lupine_85> hmm
<lupine_85> well, it builds if the headers match the running kernel
<lupine_85> presumably something needs patching
<superm1> imbrandon, ping
<imbrandon> superm1, heya
<superm1> hey there, just wanted to check in with you about the two myth packages
<imbrandon> superm1, there seems to be a qmake issue with ccache making it ftbs , also -0.4 is out with some of the cahnges intergrated
<imbrandon> did you test build this in an edgy pbuilder ?
<superm1> making it ftbs?
<imbrandon> fail to build from source
<superm1> i did, but the pbuilder is about a week old
<superm1> so was this qmake thing a recent thing?
<superm1> and more importantly then, did it make the new mythtv package itself fail?
<imbrandon> hum must be something with the new qmake, if you want to check on the changes in -0.4 ( they intergated a bit of the stuff we did ) i'll check on the qmake
<superm1> k.
<lupine_85> Fujitsu: aha
<lupine_85> with linux-source installed, they build fine
<Fujitsu> lupine_85, what?
<lupine_85> ^^
<Fujitsu> Ah!
<lupine_85> so add that as a dependency?
<Fujitsu> I suppose so.
<Fujitsu> It's strange that it does that.
<Fujitsu> I'll run a test build with it added...
<superm1> well, i guess do this too then.  libmyth-0.20-dev installs a file to /usr/include/mythtv/mythconfig.mak.  if qmake messed up on it too, then it will include a ccache there in the CC variable
<lupine_85> it's been a strange package in general
<superm1> and thats probably what killed this
<lupine_85> Fujitsu: uploaded
<imbrandon> superm1, ahh yes it is, ok i'll fix that up , if you would remerge with 0.4
<superm1> sure will do.
<superm1> so then this is qmake's fault right :)?
<imbrandon> superm1, thanks for spotting that
<imbrandon> well its /usr/include/mythtv/mythconfig.mak's fault for using ccache by default
<imbrandon> but i'm patching that out right now
<Fujitsu> lupine_85, I tried to build with linux-sources, but still:
<Fujitsu> Your kernel sources cannot be found.
<Fujitsu> Kernel headers found...
<Fujitsu> They does not match your running kernel.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, s/sources/headers
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, actually s/sources/source/
<lupine_85> no, sources
<imbrandon> why would you need the kernel source vs the headers ?
<superm1> imbrandon, that file mythconfig.mak should have generated during the compile of mythtv.  is there something about a edgy pbuilder that would make it seem like ccache was avail?
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, some things (very few, though) do.
<Fujitsu> However, this isn't one of them.
<lupine_85> 'cos this package is annoying ;)
<imbrandon> superm1, yea i'm workin on it bro , give me a sec
<lupine_85> I can't even find where it's detecting the kernel
<superm1> imbrandon, sorry, just a little antsy
<imbrandon> ;)
<lupine_85> ah...                 kernel_sources_path=$arg_value'/include/'
<imbrandon> lupine_85, yes its a symlink to /usr/source/linux/include thats is installed with linux-headers
<lupine_85> even worse, it uses the /usr/src/linux symlink
<lupine_85> yes, we spotted it at the same time :)
<imbrandon> that correct not worse
<imbrandon> the symlink is always right
<lupine_85> no, wait... /usr/include/linux/wireless.h
<lupine_85> that's not kernel headers
<lupine_85> (/usr/src/linux, incidentally, should not point to your current kernel headers. See http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Kernel/usr-src-linux-symlink.html )
<lupine_85> so... we can go with the sources and specify the path to them; or the headers and another patch?
<lupine_85> quick hack testing time...
<Fujitsu> 'nother patch.
<Fujitsu> Sources are gigantic.
<imbrandon> crimsun, ping , if the universe frozen yet ?
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, no.
<crimsun> not yet.
<TheMuso> Wasn't it 14:00 UTC?
<superm1> tomorrow 14:00 UTC I thought
<imbrandon> good, ok superm1 , fixes to mythtv uploaded , when you have the -0.4 ready i can test/upload from here untill the buildd's fix it
<Fujitsu> TheMuso, superm1, that's what Mithrandir/tfheen said a couple of days back.
<TheMuso> Right.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: FOr us at least, we have till midnight.
<Fujitsu> Yep.
<TheMuso> As far as I have worked out.
<imbrandon> superm1, /me hugs --disable-ccache ;)
<superm1> okay cool.  it'll take a few minutes for me to go through all of the stuff he has done and compare to how i did it. i'll be back in a few
<Fujitsu> Anybody need any upload sponsors or anything?
<superm1> ah, awesome fix :)
* TheMuso heads to the merge list.
<imbrandon> superm1, probably the easiest is to
<imbrandon> err nevermind
<imbrandon> go ahead
* Fujitsu presses various buttons on Hobbsee|Remote, and wonders why the TV won't turn on.
<TheMuso> heh
* Fujitsu hits Hobbsee|Remote on the table.
<imbrandon> lol
<Fujitsu> Why don't you work?
<Hobbsee> haha
<imbrandon> needs batteries ?
<Hobbsee>  /nick Hobbsee|EnergiserBunny
<imbrandon> lol
<TheMuso> hehe.
* TheMuso has found a bug report from bdebian from a couple of days ago that is not correctly written. :p
<Fujitsu> Which?
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: for fnorb
<Fujitsu> Yeah, I saw that a while ago.
<LaserJock> oh stink
<Fujitsu> ?
<LaserJock> I don't suppose inkscape has like a recovery thing
<imbrandon> is there a "I-know-about-limewire-already" list kinda like the DoNotCall list so i can stop this "100% free music downloads" spam !?!
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, hahaha.
* TheMuso focuses on new merges
* ajmitch focuses on sleep
<TheMuso> hehe
<imbrandon> ;)
<Fujitsu> At 5:30pm, ajmitch? I don't think so.
<Fujitsu> No sleeping before UniverseFreeze.
<ajmitch> too bad
<TheMuso> heh
<ajmitch> I'm sure you'll manage fine without me
* imbrandon waits for the "sdfsdfastertwery " to come from ajmitch's keyboard as his head hits it
<LaserJock> darn it
<imbrandon> LaserJock, delete a file ?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, what were you doing in it, and how much time had you spent?
<LaserJock> no inkscape froze
<imbrandon> ouch
<LaserJock> and I'd done a lot of work, although not long enough that I thought I'd need to save yet
<LaserJock> my artistic abilities are very bad
<LaserJock> so it's too bad when I loose something :/
<LaserJock> oh well
<Fujitsu> :(
<lupine_85> ok... for some reason I don't understand, it is now building
<Fujitsu> When was the new science forum created?
<lupine_85> no idea what i've done this end
<lupine_85> -headers and -sources are removed
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: last day or 2
<Fujitsu> OK.
<LaserJock> totally lost :/
<Fujitsu> :(
<LaserJock> ah well, it was a sucky figure anyway
<LaserJock> one of these days we're going to create an OS that doesn't crash
* lupine_85 does pbuilder create
<Fujitsu> Aw, LaserJock... Can't we turn Xgl on by default?
* Fujitsu ducks.
<Fujitsu> lupine_85, good idea.
<lupine_85> I will get this working :)
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: of course
<Hobbsee|Remote> LaserJock: bah.  that's no fun at all.
<lupine_85> Fujitsu: did you try to compile it in edgy or dapper? or is that a daft question?
<Fujitsu> lupine_85, Edgy.
<lupine_85> ok
<superm1> imbrandon, will i have to re-upload the orig.tar.gz, or can you do without that 17.5 meg upload (my measily cable will thank you if you say you have a copy and dont need it)
<imbrandon> i ahve a copy, i dunno if revu will like it though, you can put it on some other {web,ftp}site
<superm1> i'll try without and see if revu yells at me for it :)
<Fujitsu> superm1, it will, I believe.
<superm1_> well revu let it fly in the sense that the diff and dsc are there now
<superm1_> just couldnt unpack it by itself
<superm1_> and run linda/lintian
<Fujitsu> Ah, OK, goodo.
<lupine_85> ok, I think I've tracked down the problem. If it can't find the linux source, it instead grabs the headers in /usr/include/linux - which is wrong, since they're always well out of date. Including linux-headers-generic as a build dep, and specifying the directory to configure.sh, lets it build.
<lupine_85> does that sound acceptable?
<imbrandon> s/-generic// they might have a diffrent kernel installed
<imbrandon> eg -386
<TheMuso> What does the 1: mean in a package version number?
<lupine_85> the package "linux-headers" doesn't exist
<imbrandon> TheMuso, an epoc
<Fujitsu> TheMuso, it's an epoch...
<Fujitsu> Nasty nasty things they are too.
<Fujitsu> lupine_85, it's a virtual package.
<TheMuso> Where can I learn more about them?
<Fujitsu> TheMuso, I'm not quite sure, but what I am sure about is that you don't want to learn about them.
<Fujitsu> They're evil.
<LaserJock> TheMuso: debian policy of course
<lupine_85> so an error like "E: Package linux-headers has no installation candidate" is OK ?
<LaserJock> and they aren't evil
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, why are they evil?
<LaserJock> you just don't want to use them if you don't have to
<imbrandon> they arent
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, I guess.
<TheMuso> LaserJock: bah of course.
<TheMuso> thanks.
<LaserJock> they are an added layer of versioning
<LaserJock> in case upstream does something wierd
<LaserJock> etc.
* lupine_85 tries it out
<imbrandon> TheMuso, short story is ... 0.9 in in the archives , 1.0 go's to be uploaded and somoen boo boo's and uploads 10.0 , well naturaly 1.1 couldent be uploaded so 1:1.1 > 10.0
<lupine_85> hmm... that seems to work (pbuilder selects the appropriate dep)
<imbrandon> lupine_85, exactly ;)
<lupine_85> but...
<lupine_85> it doesn't compile
<imbrandon> then fix the reason it dont compile linux-headers will grab the headers for the running kernel and symlink them to /usr/src/linux
<imbrandon> thats the "right way"
<minghua> LaserJock: necessary evil is still evil ;-)  (about epoch)
<LaserJock> perhaps
<lupine_85> ah... it grabs 2.6.17-10, but --kernel_source  is still specifying -10-generic (uname -r hack). the 'linux' symlink isn't created afaict, but I'll try that
<superm1_> LaserJock, I cleaned up backstep as indicated earlier this afternoon.  could you take another look? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3290
<lupine_85> ok.... let's see if this works
<lupine_85> fugly hack #2 ;)
<LaserJock> superm1: looks good, I'll upload
<superm1> wonderful.  Thanks
<lupine_85> oooh... we have compilation
<lupine_85> "it compiles - ship it!"
<imbrandon> lupine_85, hehe
<lupine_85> uploading...
<lupine_85> it is a fairly fugly hack though
<lupine_85> since we can't assume -generic, we install a less-specific linux-headers with a name which doesn't match "uname -r"...
<lupine_85> despite the ideological constraints, I'm starting to miss /usr/src/linux ;)
<LaserJock> superm1: have a look at https://launchpad.net/people/superm1/+packages
<lupine_85> Fujitsu: given up on it? ;)
<superm1> cool :) my first package that i'm a maintainer on
* lupine_85 wants that honour :)
<Fujitsu> lupine_85, was AFK...
* Fujitsu looks.
<lupine_85> np
<LaserJock> superm1: you can see it's in the NEW queue at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+queue
<LaserJock> superm1: and also track it from https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/backstep
<superm1> very good info to know.  i do get lost around launchpad looking for stuff like that
<LaserJock> yep, just learn the URLs
<LaserJock> its easy to just type in the url rather then clicking around
<superm1> so until i become an official ubuntu member and eventually a motu, how would i handle if a bug was filed?  Just submit to revu and such
<imbrandon> superm1, no attach a debdiff to the bug report
<imbrandon> and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<LaserJock> superm1: attach a debdiff to the bug, subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<imbrandon> revu is for NEW packages
<LaserJock> imbrandon: darn you ;-)
<imbrandon> hahaha
<Fujitsu> And one of us will come and look at it, and if it's fine we'll upload it.
<superm1> okay sweet
<imbrandon> man when the new queue gets processed -changes will be bombarded
<LaserJock> man, ajmitch has got quite a LP team collectoin
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, you don't say.
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> i'm only on 11
<LaserJock> about as bad as dhobach
<imbrandon> lol
<LaserJock> dholbach, rather
<imbrandon> ajmitch, haas over 1 mil karma too ;)
* imbrandon only has 300k
<Fujitsu> I've got 950k :)
<LaserJock> sabdfl has 6mil+
<superm1> now by chance can I get one or more of you folks to join at the CC meeting Wed?
<imbrandon> going for membership ?
<superm1> hoping to :)
<imbrandon> cool
<LaserJock> bddebian's got 1.7 mil
<superm1> at the last meeting they just wanted me to come back with testimonials, and said i'm set elsewise
<imbrandon> superm1, when is it ?
<superm1> i think noon cst. i'll double check
<robitaille> 10 pacific time
<robitaille> next tuesday...
<superm1> 3 October 2006, 17:00 UTC.  so yea noon CST
<superm1> tuesday
<superm1> yes
<imbrandon> sure, i'm not normaly awake yet, but i can get up a bit early
<imbrandon> ;)
<superm1> awesome
<LaserJock> If I'm around ping me superm1
<LaserJock> I'm not sure if I'll be in to work yet at that time or not
<imbrandon> heya robitaille
<superm1> Ok will do
<robitaille> Hi imbrandon
<imbrandon> hows it going? busy nuff ? hehe
<robitaille> yeah...been busy.   Slowly getting into Ubuntu stuff this week.  Even did some bug triage yesterday.
<robitaille> I have to try to keep my karma up :)
<imbrandon> ;)
<LaserJock> hmmm, the top Ubuntu contributor has 10.3 mil in support tracker karma points
<imbrandon> wow
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, yeah, support tracker karma is vastly overscaled at the moment.
<robitaille> I don't like these inflated scores (I'm at 1.7 mil)
<robitaille> all of it in bug triage
<imbrandon> yea i'm at 300k and its all bugs save one spec
* minghua missed the days when the karma is usually a three or four digit number
<Fujitsu> minghua, yeah, good old days.
<Fujitsu> I was around back then, for a while.
<LaserJock> I thought the log scale idea was good
<LaserJock> so it's easy to get karma at first
<imbrandon> any of you catch that new show "Heros" ?
<LaserJock> and then it get's tougher
<LaserJock> imbrandon: most of it last night
<imbrandon> LaserJock, http://www.eikehein.com/kde/heroes/
<LaserJock> oh yeah, I was going to check that out
<imbrandon> hehe
<LaserJock> oh that's funny
<LaserJock> KDE's in the stripper scene ;-)
<imbrandon> i'm gonna blog about it soonish ( and my linux daap adventures tonight )
<imbrandon> hhahah yea
<LaserJock> I always knew you KDE guys would do anything for money ;-)
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> "it'll cost you another 39 bucks"
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> too bad it wasent kubuntu
<imbrandon> lol
<LaserJock> I really can't believe they spotted that
<LaserJock> geeks
<imbrandon> lol
<LaserJock> one of the cool molecules from my department was on CSI
* lupine_85 should sleep
<LaserJock> although the prof didn't even make the credits
<LaserJock> they interviewed him and everything
<imbrandon> yea it was Sho from the konvo team that spotted it
<imbrandon> lol
<Fujitsu> lupine_85, ping.
<Kagou> morning
<superm1> imbrandon, if you see nothing much more with mythplugins, i think i'm going to hit the sack for the night
<AnAnt> how much time is left till universe be freezed ?
<imbrandon> nope looked ok, if i spot anything else i'll fix it up
<imbrandon> AnAnt, few hours
<AnAnt> imbrandon: so, what will happen to packages who sources are in the repos but binaries are still in queue ?
<imbrandon> they will get processed
<superm1> okay.  thanks for helping getting this going.
<superm1> night all.
<lupine_85> pong
<AnAnt> k, good
<lupine_85> 'sup Fujitsu? :)
<lupine_85> do we have a build? :)
<Fujitsu> lupine_85, yes we do :)
<lupine_85> w00t
<lupine_85> uploaduploadupload :)
<imbrandon> lol
<lupine_85> once it's uploaded I can get some sleep
<lupine_85> 3 hours till I have to be at work
<Fujitsu> Just checking the debdiff now, then I'll advocate.
<lupine_85> okies :
<lupine_85> :)
<Fujitsu> Gah.
<Fujitsu> REVU is doing funny stuff...
<AnAnt> Fujitsu: you're a REVUer now ?
<Fujitsu> It cloned my comment 3 times.
<Fujitsu> AnAnt, I'm a MOTU, so yes.
<AnAnt> Fujitsu: since when ?
<lupine_85> hitting F5 does that :(
<Fujitsu> AnAnt, early yesterday morning.
<Fujitsu> lupine_85, yeah.
<lupine_85> it seems to use GET everywhere, which is a bit daft
<Fujitsu> It's breaking web standards by doing that.
<AnAnt> Fujitsu: cool
<lupine_85> mind you, I'm guilty of doing the same thing
<Fujitsu> It should be using POST for stuff that makes modifications.
<AnAnt> Fujitsu: you won't hide from me in Edgy+1 would you ?
<Fujitsu> AnAnt, no.
<Fujitsu> :P
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: the REVU code is on LP ;-)
<AnAnt> LaserJock: where in LP ?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, I know, I was looking at it earlier :)
<Fujitsu> lupine_85, that's questionable... (the uname -r | cut)
<lupine_85> I know
<Fujitsu> If the ABI version changes in length, you're stuffed.
<lupine_85> it won't do until -8-1 though
<LaserJock> AnAnt: hmm, somewhere. probably around launchpad.net/products/revu or something
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, yes.
<AnAnt> k
<lupine_85> erm, -18-1
<Fujitsu> lupine_85, use cut -d="-", with some other stuff.
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, is REVU2 the current one on Tiber?
<LaserJock> what do you mean
<LaserJock> revu.tauware.de is REVU 1
<Fujitsu> Ah, OK.
<Fujitsu> That branch seems invalid at the moment.
<Fujitsu> Oops, it's the REVU2 branch that's exploded.
<lupine_85> `echo $(uname -r)| cut -d- -f1`-`echo $(uname -r) | cut -d- -f2`
<lupine_85> that works
<Fujitsu> echo $(uname -r)| cut -d- -f1,2
<Fujitsu> That also works, and it's cleaner.
<TheMuso> Does Emmet Hikory frequent IRC? If so, whats his nick?
<lupine_85> ah, I was just working towards something like that...
<lupine_85> (I didn't know about -f1,2)
<LaserJock> TheMuso: not much and he's persia
<lupine_85> pbuilder, here we come...
<Fujitsu> lupine_85, neither did I, but the manpage alluded to it.
<lupine_85> hehe
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Thanks.
<Fujitsu> That's an... impressive... SQL statement.
<lupine_85> hmm... that's not playing. gets translated to  "/usr/src/linux-headers-" (--kernel_sources=/usr/src/linux-headers-`echo | cut -d- -f1,2`)
<lupine_85> AHA!
<Fujitsu> ?
<lupine_85> it compiles with a field-based cut
<lupine_85> the makefile doesn't seem to like nesting ` & $(
<Fujitsu> Does anybody here know why REVU doesn't offer a password changing facility?
<Fujitsu> lupine_85, ah, probably not.
<Fujitsu> Try $$(
<lupine_85> linux-headers-`uname -r| cut -d- -f1,2` works
<lupine_85> uploading...
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: what did you fix?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, re -devel?
<LaserJock> yeah
<lupine_85> hopefully that should "be it" :)
<Fujitsu> Backported a tor security fix from 0.1.0.18 to the Breezy and Dapper versions... It didn't correctly check if it was configured as a server or not, so the first server in a path could route abitrary data through it.
<LaserJock> I see
<Fujitsu> Upstream actually came and reported it in LP.
<lupine_85> and it's up :)
<minghua> good tor upstream
<imbrandon> okies i'm off for a few hours, time for some sleep , rember , go fourth and pimp the KDE ( ala http://www.imbrandon.com/2006/09/28/pimping-kde-style/ ) , gnight folks
<Fujitsu> Bye, imbrandon.
<lupine_85> sleeeeeeeeeeeeeep
<Fujitsu> Test building again, lupine_85...
<Fujitsu> You may want to ask somebody else to review it.
<aboe> can someone help me with building a package, I'm a translator for bmpx and want to build a good ubuntu package of this program
<lupine_85> is anyone else around?
* lupine_85 must nap
<Fujitsu> See ya.
<lupine_85> well, I guess we're nearly there :/
<Fujitsu> It's compiling this time, I'll advocate shortly.
<lupine_85> ooh, cool :)
<lupine_85> thanks
<lupine_85> I thought to myself, "choose something easy..."
<Fujitsu> Now just need a seconder.
<lupine_85> nobody seems to be about :'(
<lupine_85> understandable at this ungodly hour
<Fujitsu> OK, the package contents seem sane, and it hasn't exploded, so it must be good :)
<lupine_85> hehe
<lupine_85> thanks for sticking with me
<Fujitsu> No problem.
<azeem> so if I want to have a package which is only in Debian be in Ubuntu universe as well, should I do something other than requesting a sync from Debian?
<Fujitsu> azeem, no, just file a sync.
<Fujitsu> *sync request
<azeem> ok, I got irritated by https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/62468
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62468 in Ubuntu "Please sync maloc_0.2-1 from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Rejected] 
* Fujitsu hits that person.
<Fujitsu> Fixed.
<azeem> thanks!
<Fujitsu> I also had him assigning ubuntu-archive to a few of my bugs earlier.
<LaserJock> haha
<LaserJock> I love Fujitsu's comments
<Fujitsu> Well, I'm annoyed at him.
<Q-FUNK> hm
<Q-FUNK> sync day
<minghua> Fujitsu: that's probably a her
<Fujitsu> minghua, I just noticed...
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: truly, please don't use that Linus quote about him telling people to use KDE
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: it was sent to the desktop-architects list, not the gnome-usability one
<Burgundavia> he thought it was a private list, all you are going to do is make GNOME people like myself angry by bringing it up
<dholbach> good morning
<lfittl> morning dholbach
<Fujitsu> Hi dholbach.
<dholbach> hey lfittl, hey Fujitsu
<imbrandon> Burgundavia, edited becouse i dident quote it to start a fite, but 1) its only one persons opinon , nothing to make "gnome users mad" and 2) if that is the wrong list you need to contact the gnome.org admins as thats directly where i linked it from
<imbrandon> s/fite/fight
<lionelp> morning dholbach
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: it was later linked to the usability list as the story grew
<Hobbsee> hey dholbach
<dholbach> heyA lionelp, HOBbsee
<dholbach> how are you?
<imbrandon> okies ;)
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: useless negative opinions about one desktop or the other are totally useless and just fan the "GNOME vs KDE" crap in the press
<Burgundavia> you see, I loved everything else in your blog post and it is cool to see more KDE in the world
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> its edited, only been up an hor, most will have never seen it ;P
<imbrandon> hour ...
<Burgundavia> thanks
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: be careful, the nz idiot is around again...
<imbrandon> no worries, like i said it wasnt to start a war, thus i dident quote the bad part
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, that guy was NZian?
<imbrandon> but edited anyhow
<Fujitsu> So he was.
<imbrandon> Hobbsee hahaha ok
<imbrandon> Hobbsee i'm actualy in bed with the laptop anyhow
<imbrandon> so i'm semi afk ;)
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: yeah, look at the hostmask.  he comes in and tries to create trouble every once in a while
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, I looked after you mentioned it... Why isn't he banned?
<Hobbsee> oh here we go again....
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: because i was feeling nice.
<Fujitsu> Yup...
<imbrandon> he tries to imprsonate mark alot
<Hobbsee> now he's just....well, you can go read it :P
<Fujitsu> Yeah...
<imbrandon> what chan ?
<Fujitsu> #-devel
<Hobbsee> *!*@219-89-*.dialup.xtra.co.nz
<Hobbsee> is the hostmask you want to look out for - it's the same guy.
<Hobbsee> tends to pose as different people
<Fujitsu> Yeah, I think I've seen that hostmask a bit over the past couple of months.
<imbrandon> but we cant ban that as its the largest isp in NZ
<imbrandon> heh
<Hobbsee> we can ban that section of it.
<Fujitsu> Was he MarkShuttleworth?
<imbrandon> yes
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: that's the one
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: he's also in #ubuntu
<Hobbsee> you do at least have ops there
<lionelp> Fujitsu: upstream uploaded all the fix i required for nagcon !
<Fujitsu> lionelp, yay :)
<Fujitsu> I thought they might be quick.
<Fujitsu> If you upload the fix, fixing those issues I mentioned, I'll advocate.
<lionelp> yeah, only 9 hours after my e-mail
<lionelp> Fujitsu: I do it right now !
<Fujitsu> Gimme a link once it's there.
<imbrandon> Hobbsee i got my finger on the button if he dont stay mum
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: good.  he's tried once already, but didnt get much of a response, it seems.
<imbrandon> hedgemage is also in there , she is freenode staff iirc
<imbrandon> ( and active )
<Hobbsee> indeed
<imbrandon> okies , i'm really of to sleep now, Burgundavia sorry for the mishap ;)
<Fujitsu> G'night, imbrandon.
<Hobbsee> night imbrandon
<lionelp> Fujitsu: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3293
<Q-FUNK> say, are Kamion an dKeybuck both doing archive work today to complete the beta?
<Hobbsee> Q-FUNK: you didnt make it to the dev meeting.
<dholbach> Q-FUNK: I'd say they're busy doing CD stuff and testing CDs
<Q-FUNK> Hobbsee: what? when? where?
<dholbach> fridge.ubuntu.com has all the dates
* Hobbsee thought Q-FUNK was going for motu, for some reason
<Q-FUNK> someone else sould be doing CDs.  archive maintenance already is a big job.
<Q-FUNK> Hobbsee: indeed, but currently running for a deadline in real life :)
<Hobbsee> ah
<dholbach> everybody is aware of that, but it's important the whole team works on getting the beta release out
<Fujitsu> dholbach, while Universe freezes in a less-than-complete state?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: yes.  if hte cds dont work, nothing works.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, these are beta CDs, but pretty much final universe.
<dholbach> and I doubt the things that are "incomplete" can not be fixed by bug fixes and uvf exceptions
<Q-FUNK> we all agree that the CDs should work.  we're only saying that keybuck and kamion already have their hands full.
<Hobbsee> there are exception requests....
<dholbach> final?
<azeem> Q-FUNK: it's keybuk
<Fujitsu> The archive admins should spend their time on beta, yes, but beta and UniverseFreeze shouldn't really be on the same day.
<Hobbsee> apart from that, neither seem to have been talking much on irc today.
<dholbach> relax guys, really - we have a months for bug fixes and we have the uvf exception process
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, beta release dosent depend on universe
<dholbach> there's nothing we cannot fix until release
<imbrandon> ;)
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, obviously.
* imbrandon .oO( is really asleep , its the ubuntu bot talking ) ZzZZzZZ 
<Fujitsu> dholbach, but it's a whole lot easier before it's frozen.
<dholbach> ...
<dholbach> that's life
<dholbach> honestly - we all knew that the cycle was going to be short
<imbrandon> yup yup
<imbrandon> we'll make it
<imbrandon> it will be O.K. ;)
<dholbach> and one month before release is a good time to "sort of freeze" universe
<Fujitsu> Yes, but it wouldn't have been as bad if beta and universe freeze were not on the same day.
<Fujitsu> Because there's an enormous backlog of sync requests.
<Hobbsee> yeah well.  we cant change it now.
<dholbach> i'm sure they will be processed
<Fujitsu> We can't, true.
<dholbach> relax
<Hobbsee> and they'll just have to process the current sync requests as is.
<dholbach> I'll try to make sure that everything that is important will be considered for a uvf exception
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, by the time the cd's are released , and people have time to download and install them the archive will have been processsed ;)
* imbrandon will only have one forseeable uvf for universe
<Q-FUNK> ah.  infinity laso does archive work.
<dholbach> imbrandon: that's fine - I'm waiting for a telepathy fix myself
<Q-FUNK> and kamion just said he barely is gettig setup at his new place, but he's gonna get around archive work today.
<imbrandon> yea we're still working out the kinks of the second half to mythtv ( but i think between superm1 and me last night we got it , just needs to be tested , built and uploaded , so next day or so after release )
<imbrandon> Q-FUNK, have faith brother, those guys are really good ;)
<imbrandon> dholbach, yea i cant wait to play with telepathy stuff
<imbrandon> its lookin sweet from what i've read
<dholbach> yeah, it's great to see all the bits slowly come together
<dholbach> of course it's all fairly fresh an new still
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> jono was really pimping it from the jokosher / gstreamer side talking to the llts guys
<imbrandon> seemed really cool
<dholbach> he tried to explain it two or three times already how jokosher fitted in there
<dholbach> but I still didn't understand
<imbrandon> hehe , think skype and podcasting only free and easy
<TheMuso> Does jokosher support jack?
<imbrandon> thats just one small part ( the part i like )
<imbrandon> TheMuso, it supports anything gstreamer does afaik
<TheMuso> Right.
<TheMuso> Gstreamer did have a jack pluginat one point
<TheMuso> It doesn't seem to exist any more however.
<imbrandon> heh
<Fujitsu> lionelp, advocated.
<lionelp> Fujitsu: thanks
<lionelp> dholbach: could you do a last check on nagcon (updated with Fujitsu remarks) and eventually advocate ? :)
* Fujitsu is ready to upload it, if seconded.
<dholbach> looks good
<dholbach> go ahead
<Fujitsu> Will do.
<TheMuso> jokosher really needs jack support to truely be powerful.
* dholbach tests CDs
<Fujitsu> Good idea :)
<dholbach> TheMuso: jokosher rocks already ;-)
<TheMuso> But it would rock more with jack support.
<Fujitsu> Uploaded, lionelp.
<lionelp> \o/
<lionelp> Fujitsu, dholbach: thanks !
<dholbach> de rien
<lionelp> :)
<TheMuso> hmmmmm
<TheMuso> Not sure if I like jokosher just yet.
<TheMuso> Give it jack support, and thats another story.
<Q-FUNK> ok, just had a long chat with keybuk over what is the real roadblock over adding more archive maintainers.
<Fujitsu> Q-FUNK, I could have told you, I believe.
<Q-FUNK> in a nutshell:  they would have to sign an NDA, because archive admins get root, which gives them access to e.g. the source code for non-free canonical projects.  most free software guys refuse that.
<Fujitsu> Q-FUNK, that's what I thought.
<Fujitsu> That's the state at the moment, at least. Once Soyuz gets a sane web frontend, it should be easier.
<Q-FUNK> the dilema:  people _willing_ to sign an NDA tend to be more laxed on the free software principles.    meanwhile, people NOT willing to sign an NDA cannot do archive work.
<Fujitsu> <Kamion> anyway, time to clear up universe syncs
<Fujitsu> :)
<siretart> Q-FUNK: one naive approach could be to avoid the requirement of needing root on those machines for archive work
<azeem> siretart: that is what Fujitsu was talking about WRT a sane web frontend I guess
<Fujitsu> azeem, yep.
<siretart> oh. yes
<Fujitsu> siretart, you're a REVU person... Is there any reason we can't change our passwords? Or is it just that nobody has implemented it?
<siretart> Fujitsu: it's just a matter of implementing it
<Fujitsu> azeem, you should probably set the status and importance of your sync requests, or they're liable to be ignored.
<Fujitsu> siretart, I shall aim to do so.
<azeem> ok, thanks
<Fujitsu> Hey \sh.
<siretart> Fujitsu: sure, the source for revu is on launchpad, just tell me the url of your branch
<Fujitsu> siretart, I've branched it here already, and am looking at it :)
<\sh> moins
<siretart> huhu \sh
<siretart> \sh: are you using fai for edgy oder only dapper machines?
<\sh> siretart: right now only dapper and sles9
<pygi> morning
<Fujitsu> Hey pygi.
<\sh> siretart: we need to change some things on FAI for the installation of Ubuntu (in general)
<\sh> siretart: I have to test now the new FAI 3.0 packages which were released yesterday
<siretart> \sh: yes, I have FAI 3.0 on my todo list for edgy. that's why I ask you
<siretart> \sh: but I won't get to it before (or more likely after) this weekend
<siretart> local LUG event the whole weekend, you know
<\sh> siretart: hehe....more important then packaging work ;)
<siretart> \sh: I give one workshop in cfengine and one talk about version control systems
<siretart> but I think we have uplink there
<pygi> ajmitch: ping?
<\sh> siretart: the problem right now with installation of dapper with FAI 2.x (and obviously for 3.0), is that during bootup dapper needs /var/lock and /var/run created before mounting the other filesystems...I do this, right now, in instsoft.<CLASS> hook
<siretart> \sh: this is also an issue for debian soon. the package with that semantics is already in experimental for testing. unsure if it makes it for etch
<TheMuso> Is there an upstream bug tracker for jokosher?
<\sh> siretart: we should think about this change for the ubuntu fai packages...so thomas can use our patches then
<siretart> \sh: I will talk about that to him as soon as we have the patches
<siretart> anyway, lunchtime here, see you later
<TheMuso> found it
<azeem> Fujitsu: I guess I cannot change the Status/Importance, or I cannot figure out the web interface
<Fujitsu> azeem, click on the link in the orange bar at the top.
<azeem> there's no link, only for the "Affects"
<Fujitsu> On the product name, at left.
<azeem> euh
<azeem> talk about discoverability
<azeem> Fujitsu: thanks again
<Fujitsu> Yeah, that's confused a number of people.
<Fujitsu> No problem :)
<minghua> what is the problem with -devel list recently...
<Adri2000> today it's universe freeze, i hope archive admins will build/upload the 141 packages in the queue
<Q-FUNK> siretart: indeed
<ajmitch> evening
<ajmitch> pygi: pong
<cyberix> Package gaphor is broken in Dapper. :-(
<Q-FUNK> yee!
<Fujitsu> ?
<Fujitsu> Hm.
<Fujitsu> I've got 27 new emails.
<Fujitsu> That can only mean one thing.
* Fujitsu checks.
<Fujitsu> Ooh, yay :)
<ajmitch> NEW queue or syncs?
<Fujitsu> Syncs.
<Q-FUNK> syncs
<Q-FUNK> what is the crrect procedure for closing the bugs, now that the upload is done?
<Q-FUNK> the only bug hat got auto-closed was the sync request.
<Fujitsu> Q-FUNK, the archive admin will close them.
<Q-FUNK> ok
<ajmitch> Q-FUNK: if you mean closing bugs that the update fixed, you close them yourself
<ajmitch> the archive admin closes only the original sync request afaik
<Q-FUNK> yes, bugs that the update fixed
<Fujitsu> Oh, OK.
<Fujitsu> I presumed you meant the sync request, but I see you mentioned that now.
<Q-FUNK> status should be what?  fix released?
<Fujitsu> Q-FUNK, yup.
<Q-FUNK> done
<Q-FUNK> hub! :D
<lfittl> I need a quick +1 for http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3278, otherwise glest will end up in edgy + 1
<lotusleaf> cool, I've heard glest is nice
<lfittl> dholbach: ping
<dholbach> lfittl: pong
<lfittl> dholbach: could you give a +1 for glest, then I can upload it, although I have not been able to find testers
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> you sitll have some time
<dholbach> i'm just testing a cd and filing a bug
<dholbach> but i'll do it after that, asap
<lfittl> k perfect, do we have a exact time for the freeze now?
<Fujitsu> 23:59UTC, wasn't it, dholbach? :P
<dholbach> we'll se about that
<ajmitch> then we can start bugging the team for freeze exceptions
<ajmitch> I may have a few, sorry
<ajmitch> mostly for my debian packages which I haven't had time to update properly yet
<ajmitch> so up to you on if you trust that I won't break things there :)
<pygi> lionelp: poke?
<phanatic> good afternoon
<ajmitch> hi phanatic
<pygi> morning phanatic
<phanatic> hi ajmitch and pygi :)
<phanatic> universe freeze already passed, or there is still a chance to upload a package?
<pygi> phanatic: still chance to upload package :)
<phanatic> aye, i just need a sponsor then ;)
<phanatic> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3281 - just a new upstream version
* pygi looks
<ajmitch> phanatic: looks fine by me
<phanatic> ajmitch: could you upload please?
<ajmitch> phanatic: sure, just grabbing source
<phanatic> ajmitch: thanks
<ajmitch> libburn 2 libburn2 (>= 0.2.2)
<ajmitch> that's what the shlibs should look like :)
<pygi> ajmitch: don't tell me =)
<pygi> you know who to poke ;)
<ajmitch> pygi: are you able to test libburn packages?
<ajmitch> I want to check upgrades
<pygi> ajmitch: nop, no edgy here since a week earlier
<ajmitch> ok, slomo_ will do
<slomo_> ajmitch: slomo_ is busy ;)
<ajmitch> slomo_: you want me to just upload? ;)
<ajmitch> I added the conflicts/replaces on libburn-1, but dpkg took 2 goes to get them installing properly
<ajmitch> don't worry, bddebian is willing & ready
<slomo_> ajmitch: libburn-1 is not even in the archive
<slomo_> oh, it is
<ajmitch> slomo_: the old old version is
* ajmitch checked that
<pygi> ajmitch: the very very very very old version
<pygi> :)
<ajmitch> phanatic: ok, I was wrong, a build test shows that it doesn't like it
<phanatic> ajmitch: what's the problem? :(
<ajmitch> phanatic: you removed Changelog, but kept the dh_installchangelogs line
<phanatic> ouch, i'll correct and reupload to revu
<ajmitch> the orig.tar.gz looks to be missing the changelog
<phanatic> thanks for the note
<ajmitch> thanks
<phanatic> yeah, it was removed
<ajmitch> why?
<phanatic> there is now a NEWS.txt for important changes and the smaller ones can be retrieved from the bzr history
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> keep dh_installchangelogs, just drop the ChangeLog argument
<phanatic> ok
<dholbach> lfittl: no powerpc?
<phanatic> ajmitch: i also added NEWS.txt to docs
<dholbach> lfittl: but apart from that fine - read to go
<dholbach> ready :)
<ajmitch> phanatic: great
<lfittl> dholbach: big endian is IMHO not supported
<dholbach> lfittl: read it in TODO
<phanatic> ajmitch: uploaded, should appear on revu soon
<dholbach> lfittl: looks good to go
<lfittl> perfect, will upload glest-data as well :)
<ajmitch> within 5 min
<dholbach> ROCK ON!
<ajmitch> dholbach: you like glest? :)
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> :-)
* ajmitch grabs nm-pptp for upload as well
<lfittl> glest & glest-data uploaded, hopefully remaining stuff in NEW will be processed
* dholbach hugs lfittl
* lfittl hugs dholbach back
<phanatic> ajmitch: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3294
<ajmitch> phanatic: yes, I'd grabbed it & it's uploaded ;)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<phanatic> ajmitch: great, thanks :)
<lfittl> hey bddebian
<phanatic> heya bddebian
<bddebian> What am I ready & willing for?
<bddebian> Hi lfittl, ph
<bddebian> err phanatic
<ajmitch> Plug: not entirely happy with -pptp package, just a couple of extra files, but I'll upload now anyway
<ajmitch> bddebian: testing packages
<bddebian> Ahh
<ajmitch> Plug: you can fix those minor issues up before release :)
<phanatic> if a tarball hasn't got a license (no COPYING file, nothing mentioned in the source headers, etc.), it cannot be uploaded right?
<Fujitsu> phanatic, correct.
<Fujitsu> Well, it can be uploaded, but it'd be rejected :P
<phanatic> Fujitsu: of course :)
<phanatic> that's why i hate lazy upstreams :P
<pygi> phanatic: :P
<phanatic> see bug 59378 - there is a new mono-based version of sysinfo, which runs perfectly on edgy, but the upstream didn't include any copyright info in the source, and he hasn't responded since weeks...
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 59378 in sysinfo "[edgy]  Couldn't start sysinfo, kept crashing to apport" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/59378
<lotusleaf> I just ate 5 heaping tablespoons of powdered sugar
<Q-FUNK> Mono. *shivers*
<ajmitch> Q-FUNK: I'm sure you can get over it
<\sh> siretart: ping did you ever configured a vlan with dapper?
<lotusleaf> "god gave Noah the rainbow sign, then he said, 'it's the fire next time'"
* Fujitsu runs off to bed now.
<Fujitsu> Happy UniverseFreeze, everybody!
* Fujitsu ducks/
<siretart> \sh: god thanks, no. not yet
<ajmitch> hi siretart
<siretart> huhu ajmitch
<bddebian> hu hu siretart ;-)
<siretart> \sh: did you ever had a look at the package ifupdown-scripts-zg2?
<siretart> \sh: I read somewhere that it could help you in this case
<\sh> siretart: I just managed it without marcs scripts
<siretart> \sh: blog about it :)
<\sh> auto eth0 \n iface eth0 inet static \n address 0.0.0.1 \n netmask 255.255.255.255 \n post-up vconfig add eth0 <vlan id> \n pre-down vconfig rem eth0.<vlan id> \n\n auto eth0.<vlan id>\n address <...> netmask <...> broadcast <....> gateway <...> :)
<\sh> siretart:  I'll do that
<gardengnome> hey guys. i've just seen bug 61332 - the mythtv plugins (0.18.x atm) need to be synced against the current version of mythtv (0.20 in edgy). i don't know the development process to well so i'm wondering if this will happen for edgy.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61332 in mythplugins "Needs a sync for mythtv 0.20" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61332
<AnAnt> did Ubuntu remove the ability to set hardware clock to GMT while system clock to some timezone ?
<ajmitch> gardengnome: it's known, it's being worked on
<gardengnome> ajmitch: thanks a lot! i was afraid ubuntu would ship with a broken/old version of mythtv again.
<StevenK> \sh: I've seen someone include a for loop in post-up and pre-down to add the buggers.
<lionelp> \sh: I am not sure you need to do that
<lionelp> I read somewhere (I can not find out where) that the /etc/network/interfaces is able to manage VLAN
<lionelp> if you use eth0.vlan_id it would set the correct vlan id and the interface
<lfittl> anybody against updating openscenegraph to 1.1.0?
<\sh> lionelp: hmmm...i will test this with the next machine
<ajmitch> night all
<bddebian> Laterz ajmitch
<xerxas> Hi guys
<bddebian> Hello xerxas
<xerxas> bddebian,  do you know how can I help ?
<bddebian> Fix bugs? :-)
<xerxas> don't know what I want to fix :)
<bddebian> So install Edgy and see what breaks :-)
<Nafallo> lol
<lotusleaf> Edgy for me has been more stable than kubuntu dapper
<lotusleaf> but I'm using gnome edgy so...
<lupine_85> wooo! my packagwe got uploaded
<lupine_85> thanks guys and gals :)
<dholbach> lupine_85: which one was that?
<lupine_85> rutilt
<dholbach> ah super
<lupine_85> !info rutilt edgy
<dholbach> good work on that!
<ubotu> Package rutilt does not exist in edgy
<lupine_85> awwwwwwwwwww
<lupine_85> when does it get updated? :'(
* dholbach hugs lupine_85
<dholbach> lupine_85: you can subscribe to its bugs now ;)
* lupine_85 hugs back
<lupine_85> mmmmmmm hugz
<superm1> congrats lupine_85
<superm1> feels like 8 hours ago when you were just hoping to finish up :)
<lupine_85> so... bugs in launchpad?
<dholbach> hangon, finding the link
<dholbach> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/rutilt/+subscribe
<dholbach> there you go
<lupine_85> superm1: I started what I thought would be the 'last' upload, around 4am
<superm1> hehe
<lupine_85> finally got it finished at 8.30am, so I went to bed - and got up at 9am to go to work
<lupine_85> worth it in the end though
<lupine_85>  /snore
<dholbach> woah
<dholbach> that's DEDICATION :)
* lupine_85 subscribes
<lupine_85> so do I get a medal?
<superm1> haha, as long as you beat UVF.  I could barely stay up last night when I conked out.  so good luck staying up today
<dholbach> lupine_85: "Thanks for your contribution to Ubuntu."
<lupine_85> I was just desparate to avoid universe freeze, yeah
<lupine_85> np :)
<lupine_85> I was also desperate to avoid maintaining the package myself
<lupine_85> But whoever wrote that makefile should be slowly cooked over a warm bonfire
<lupine_85> hehe... it must be bug-free, there aren't any bugs!
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> there are multiple maintainers who that should happen to
<lupine_85> well, I can think of one bug off-hand, but it's minor
<superm1> lupine_85, last night did imbrandon mention anything else about mythtv or mythplugins after I left?  I'm a bit worried I don't see it in the edgy build queue
* lupine_85 greps...
<Nafallo> hm, how many network-manager-* is in?
<Nafallo> and have people archived uploaded stuff? :-)
<lupine_85> this? [Thu Sep 28 2006]  [09:53:08]  <imbrandon>        yea we're still working out the kinks of the second half to mythtv ( but i think between superm1 and me last night we got it , just needs to be tested , built and uploaded , so next day or so after release )
<superm1> that looks to be what i'd be looking for.
<superm1> okay so he probably will be able to make an exception for it
<superm1> what time zone is that?
<lupine_85> BST
<lupine_85> so GMT+1
<lupine_85> I think, anyway! /me can never keep track
<superm1> oh wow, way ahead of me.  okay i'm GMT-5
* lupine_85 loves CDT
<superm1> hehe
<lupine_85> I got many more hours to work on packaging than you ;)
<superm1> well i'll try to hang around IRC tonite and make sure there are no other gotchas left to it
<superm1> yea you do.
<superm1> does this channel log to any particular server ever? so I could easily check if i'm not in the channel in the future?
<lupine_85> http://www.irclinux.org/freenode/ ?
<lotusleaf> superm1: yes I have the logs url linked: http://lotusleafslinks.tuxfamily.org/linuxdistributions.html <-- look for ubuntu irc logs
<lupine_85> ah, doesn't track this one
<lupine_85> searching for lupine_85 on google gets me stroking stuff... :/
<lupine_85> (IP addresses)
<superm1> lotusleaf, wow that is a lot of archived logs
<superm1> do you have bots that sit in all these channels?
<lotusleaf> superm1: well, ubuntulog is one
<shawarma> Is UVF in effect yet or is it at midnight or something?
* lupine_85 spams ubotu
<Nafallo> I just hope it isn't before midnight in the last timezone :-P
<superm1> its in an hour I thought. 1400 UTC
<lupine_85> oooh, maybe I could do fpc and lazarus before then. since I'm now so 1337... ;)
<shawarma> 1400 UTF was two hours ago.
<shawarma> Er... UTC, of course.
<shawarma> Nafallo: That was kind of what I was hoping as well. :-)
<Nafallo> dholbach: have any insight on the subject discussed? :-)
<shawarma> Nafallo: Darn it! "Freezes normally happen at the start of the given date, UTC time. So last minute changes need to happen the day before."
<superm1> oh... I should look at my clock when saying these things shouldnt i :)
<dholbach> it will be later today
<Nafallo> yay
* Nafallo kicks network-manager-{vpnc,openvpn}
<shawarma> Nafallo: Erhm... those are my packages. What's up with them?
<Nafallo> I'm building them locally :-)
<Nafallo> I should have said "kicks them off in pbuilder" ;-)
<shawarma> Nafallo: Any particular reason why you feel they need kicking?
<shawarma> Nafallo: Ah.
<shawarma> Nafallo: Ok. :-)
<Nafallo> :-)
<Nafallo> someone already uploaded network-manager-pptp it seems...
<shawarma> Nafallo: Probably ajmitch
<shawarma> Nafallo: He and Plug worked on getting it in..
<Nafallo> I thought he would advocate it on revu then :-P
<shawarma> Nafallo: Oh... How can you tell it's been uploaded?
<shawarma> Nafallo: I can't seem to find it on launchpad.
<Nafallo> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=network-manager
<shawarma> Nafallo: Oh, right. Well, the .changes file is signed by ajmitch, so it's definitely him.
<Nafallo> ah, good
<Nafallo> advocate and archive would have been a nice gesture though :-P
<shawarma> Nafallo: Sure. I actually thougt that was required for a new package..
<bddebian> Do we not have python-distutils.mk?
<slomo_> cdbs has it
<bddebian> Not that I can find :-(
<bddebian> Not on my local install or on packages.ubuntu.com
<slomo_> /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/python-distutils.mk
<bddebian> Hmm, weird
<bddebian> Thx slomo_
<superm1> inbetween UVF and edgy release, what else is there to help out with around these parts - at least for a MOTUHopeful like me?
<bddebian> Bugs
<hub> are we in UVF?
<superm1> later on today we will be
<Nafallo> shawarma: you might want to check a bit on how the pptp-plugin does it. you install /usr/{,s}bin which isn't needed for instance.
<crimsun> bddebian: http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_contents.pl?word=python-distutils.mk&searchmode=searchfiles&case=insensitive&version=edgy&arch=i386
<superm1> bddebian, what specificially - looking to confirm and such?
<shawarma> Nafallo: Hmm... Yes. I should just remove debian/dirs altogether.
<Nafallo> shawarma: well, the pptp-package have etc/NetworkManager/VPN/ in there :-)
<bddebian> superm1: Fix them ;-)
<superm1> hehe
<bddebian> crimsun: Aye, I had the freaking path wrong, I was looking in rules/foo.mk :-(
* bddebian is an idiot
<bddebian> Heya Gloubiboulga
<Gloubiboulga> hello bddebian
<shawarma> I need a sponsor for http://www.linux2go.dk/edgy-merges/asterisk-merge.diff
<shawarma> Come on. You know you want to!
<lupine_85> !info rutilt edgy
<ubotu> Package rutilt does not exist in edgy
<lupine_85> awww
<crimsun> you know you really want to file a bug on LP so we have context!
<crimsun> (not necessary now, of course, since I'm looking at it)
<shawarma> crimsun: who? me?
<crimsun> well, yes
<shawarma> crimsun: Er.. ok. This is the way I usually get merges done.
<shawarma> crimsun: So I should just create a bug report about the merge and bug someone here to do it (UVF is dangerously close)?
<crimsun> shawarma: subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<crimsun> no need now, of course, for asterisk
<shawarma> crimsun: Ok.
<superm1> shawarma, are you the one who has been running the famous "linux2go" repo with network-manager-openvpn support?
<shawarma> crimsun: I'm not opposed to doing it, I'm just puzzled. I was told to do it this way, and it's been working fine so far.
<shawarma> superm1: Yup.
<superm1> shawarma, well props to you.  i've used your packages for a while, and i'm very appreciative.  so thanks for that repo :)
<shawarma> superm1: No problem. I was quite surprised one day when I looked at my web server logs. Those packages really ARE popular. :-)
<crimsun> shawarma: we've migrated to using u-u-s for a bit over 2 months
<crimsun> maybe longer; I lost track of how long I've been punting fujitsu's requests
<shawarma> crimsun: ah, that explains. I've been working on another project since end of July. :-)
<crimsun> uploaded.
<crimsun> (doesn't matter ultimately, since I basically punt u-u-s, too)
<shawarma> crimsun: heh.. Thanks!
<superm1> shawarma, did you ever getting nm-openvpn into universe?  I saw some traffic about nm-pptp, but didn't pay much attention to it.
<shawarma> crimsun: ...but I still just attach a debdiff between most recent Debian package and the new ubuntu revision?
<shawarma> superm1: I uploaded it to REVU a week ago, I think. Haven't had time to look more at it.
<crimsun> shawarma: that will suffice
<shawarma> crimsun: but you'd rather have... ?
<superm1> shawarma, have you gotten any MOTU love for it within that wek?
<superm1> *week
<shawarma> superm1: Apparantly not.
<superm1> just gotta pester these guys a little bit ;)
<crimsun> shawarma: (that's fine)
<Nafallo> shawarma: well, I commented here. made any changes / compared to the pptp package?
<shawarma> crimsun: Ok. Will do. Thanks
<matid> Can anyone point me to some wiki pages about packaging stuff from CSV repositories?
<matid> I'd like to know how to handle it, since obviously, we have no .orig.tar.gz file
<shawarma> Nafallo: So you did. I'm fixing it right now.
<Nafallo> :-)
<jdong> motu poke
<jdong> bug 39076, patch is provided in bug report and works, can a motu upload a fixed package?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 39076 in acidrip "Encoding progress always zeros" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39076
<crimsun> welcome to crunch time, when everyone wants his/her pet bug fixed :D
<crimsun> I've received a half-dozen e-mails in the past hour asking for package updates, all new upstream versions. Um ok.
<LaserJock> haha
<LaserJock> or rather :/
* Nafallo looks at jdong's bug
<pygi> crimsun: are we already in a freeze?
<LaserJock> not exactly I don't think
<crimsun> pygi: not until dholbach sleeps tonight.
<slomo_> pygi: 2-3 hours from now
<pygi> slomo_: oh, not much time for packaging efforts anymore then :(
<LaserJock> quick, get some coffee!
<jdong> crimsun: well, I've waited patiently for 6 months for that bug to be addressed :D
<LaserJock> somebody get to dholbach's house and make sure he doesn't go to sleep for a couple more days
<jdong> just keep on pinging him :)
<crimsun> ugh, no, let him sleep. I've been awake for 70 hours myself
<LaserJock> crimsun: dude, seriously
<slomo_> crimsun: go to bed... now! :P
<LaserJock> I want you to stay alive
<LaserJock> we need you to stay alive
<crimsun> I'd love to sleep, but I think I need to make it through a 5 PM meeting
<dholbach> crimsun: are you serious?
<crimsun> it's actually not too uncommon, got lots of crunch, Ubuntu and otherwise :)
<jdong> crimsun: that's.... not healthy
<dholbach> crimsun: after the meeting you should go! :/
<crimsun> when UF takes effect, I'm taking a nap
<LaserJock> hmmm
<LaserJock> so crimsun gets to go to sleep when dholbach does
<LaserJock> dueling workaholics
<dholbach> ok guys, I go to bed now! UVF freeze NOW!
<dholbach> muhuhuahahahaha ;-)
<dholbach> just kidding
<crimsun> gah, vlc upstream wants today's snapshot in edgy
<shawarma> crimsun: Heh.. Yeah, how could that possibly go wrong? ;-)
<jdong> hehehe
<crimsun> this resurrects Very Bad Memories of Breezy's crunch
<adolson> come on crimsun, live life on the Edgy
<crimsun> oh I am, I am.
<jdong> unfrozen universe for edgy! yeah! anarchy!
<crimsun> well crap, I just wiped /tmp with grab-merge.sh. Time for a 10-min nap.
* LaserJock slips crimsun some sleeping pills
<LaserJock> mwuahahaha
* jdong hugs Nafallo
<jdong> thank you, Nafallo
<Nafallo> no problem :-)
<jdong> anyone know why on earth we have a yum package?
<jdong> other than to create rpm repositories on *buntu servers?
<crimsun> well, people wanted crack, so Ubuntu Edgy Eft presents...crack.
<jdong> crimsun: what could you possibly do with yum?
<jdong> it doesn't work with debs, does it?
<gnomefreak> jdong: no yum is for rpms it dont work at all on debs
<gnomefreak> we have yum in repos?
<jdong> yeah
<jdong> !info yum
<ubotu> yum: Advanced front-end for rpm. In component universe, is extra. Version 2.4.0-3ubuntu1 (dapper), package size 235 kB, installed size 1068 kB
* superm1 wonders if Edgy is crack - would that mean that if grumpy ever got turned on, it would be heroine?
<shawarma> Hmm... I'm wondering about this bug: #39256
<gnomefreak> oh yuck
<gnomefreak> bug 39256
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 39256 in hp-ppd "Typo in changelog" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39256
<shawarma> gnomefreak: Oh, thanks.
<gnomefreak> !info yum edgy
<ubotu> yum: Advanced front-end for rpm. In component universe, is extra. Version 2.4.0-3.1 (edgy), package size 197 kB, installed size 960 kB
<gnomefreak> damn
<jdong> debian bug 369770
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 369770 in mldonkey "mldonkey - FTBFS: Objective-Caml 3.09.1 is required" [Serious,Closed]  http://bugs.debian.org/369770
<shawarma> Yes, I made a type in the changelog, but would it be ok to fix it?
<shawarma> The changelog is kind of a historical document.. :-) It doesn't feel right to fix a typo in an old changelog entry.
<jdong> another motu nudge, package mldonkey, tune ocaml-nox build-dep down to 3.09.1
<jdong> 3.09.2 is not required, and backports needs 3.09.1
<shawarma> What do you guys think? Is it OK to fix a type in an old changelog entry?
<crimsun> shawarma: I usually leave them be
<shawarma> crimsun: That's what I'm leaning towards as well. Sure, the typo is stupid and annoying, but.. well, it doesn't feel right. :-)
<Nafallo> shawarma: reject with something like, we can't change history! ;-)
<superm1> haha
<micahcowan> Personally (and speaking as someone who hasn't yet created a source package of my own), I wouldn't have a big problem with fixing an obvious typo in a changelog (especially if I wrote the entry), but I wouldn't create a new release (or even build) for it, and I certainly wouldn't add a new changelog entry explaining that I fixed the typo...
<shawarma> Nafallo: *G* Good idea.
<shawarma> micahcowan: I see your point. Nevertheless, I decided to reject the bug and leave the changelog as is.
<micahcowan> Well, yeah. I'd imagine it depends quite a bit on personal taste. And I probably wouldn't feel comfortable if it were someone /else's/ entry, in which case I'd prefer to track the person down to get their okay, which I obviously wouldn't do because it's not worth it. :p
<strawtarget> crimsun: you're away, but are you really?
<lupine_85> Is it true that xvidcap isn't in ubuntu repositories?
<micahcowan> strawtarget, you calling him a liar? ;)
<strawtarget> micahcowan: bald-faced, even.
<Nafallo> strawtarget: he has a meeting AFAIK
<micahcowan> Heh. Yeah, I love how some people who use nicks to indicate their status will type as, say, Laser_away ( ;) ) for up to 10 minutes before changing their nick back. :)
<adolson> he'll see the messages later on when he's back
<strawtarget> I'll just come back in a bit.
<matid> I'm trying to build a package. What should I do if there's no configure file (only autogen.sh is present)
<matid> ?
<superm1> matid, why not just run autogen.sh in your debian/rules then?  No law says that you need to run ./configure
<matid> superm1: I'll try that out, thanks
<superm1> matid, also, i've seen autogen.sh produce a configure script that needs to be launched.  you'll have to look closely at what happens when you run it
<matid> superm1: I think I could also run ./autogen.sh --dont-run-configure prior preparing the orig.tar.gz (I'm building from CVS)
<superm1> I looked around the ubuntu wiki for stuff about CVS packaging, but I didn't really see anything about it btw.  I think your best bet is getting a knowledgable MOTU here after their stress from UVF goes down.  Either that, or grab a package that uses CVS
<superm1> and compare
<superm1> see how they did it
<superm1> and how they put together their orig.tar.gz
<superm1> and how they handled their versioning
<matid> superm1: Thanks, I'll try to analise it myselft and if still had no luck, I'd ask a MOTU
<superm1> but for sure, you shouldnt be running autogen.sh right on the checkout.  you should have the checkout put into the orig.tar.gz first thing.  thing make sure that any running of autogen.sh happens during your diff
<superm1> i'd say even on CVS checkout, its important to make sure to keep the original version intact from upstream
<matid> superm1: Ok
<LaserJock> ug, what's the question?
<matid> LaserJock: How should one package CVS snapshots
<matid> LaserJock: To be precise - should any changes be made to .orig.tar.gz file and how to handle the lack of configure (only autogen.sh present)
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> I can't remember exactly, but I think you might want to take you the CVS dirs from the source when you tarball it
<LaserJock> not sure about the lack of configure
<matid> LaserJock: I think you could run ./autogen.sh --dont-run-configure first, but I'm not sure if it should be done before tarballing the sources or after it
<matid> LaserJock: superm1 suggested doing it in my diff
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> I'd probably do it after the tarball
<LaserJock> try to keep the .orig.tar.gz as .orig. as possible ;-)
<matid> LaserJock: ok
<superm1> LaserJock, so how does he handle CVS versioning then? something like cvsCHECKOUTDATE-DEBIANREVISIONubuntuUBUNTUREVISION?
<LaserJock> probably
<LaserJock> there are a number CVS packages out there
<superm1> http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/g/gaim-otr/gaim-otr_3.0.0+cvs20060530-1/changelog
<superm1> There is an example
<superm1> so MAJORREV+cvsVERS-DEBIANREVISIONubuntuUBUNTUREVISION
<LaserJock> yep
<givre> Is universe already freeze ?
<LaserJock> not quite
<LaserJock> at least I don't think dholbach has gone to sleep yet
<LaserJock> I wonder if it counts if he just falls asleep at his computer?
<superm1> well but we haven't heard from him on this channel for a little bit..... so you never know
<superm1> :)
<dholbach> nope
<dholbach> doing some telepathy/galago stuff
<dholbach> and taking a looooooooong walk after that
<dholbach> :)
<matid> dholbach: I'm just in a middle of building CVS snapshot of Gossip just to see how telepathy works ;)
<dholbach> matid: NICE
<matid> s/a middle/the middle/
<matid> ;)
<dholbach> let me know how it works
<LaserJock> dholbach: hmm, but hopefully you will return from your walk ;-)
<dholbach> i never tried
<dholbach> LaserJock: hehe
<matid> dholbach: I had some problems with building a package from CVS, since there are no manuals around, but with some help from LaserJock and superm1 I think I somehow managed to get it to work ;)
<dholbach> nice
<matid> dholbach: At least the packaging stuff, not I'll have to wait for it to build
<matid> s/not/now/
<matid> dholbach: Are you possibly going to be present on next week's Community Council meeting?
<dholbach> matid: probably, I can't say for sure
* lupine_85 for president!
<superm1> lol
<lupine_85> I promise to spend the $10m wisely...
<lupine_85> ...on f00d and b33r
<lupine_85> :p
* lupine_85 should package something else
<matid> dholbach: Ok. I think I'll be applying for an Ubuntu Member and if possible, I'd like to get someone from the BugSquand or DesktopBugs present.
<lupine_85> xvidtune?
<lupine_85> I can't find it in the repos anywhere, but it builds relatively easily
<lupine_85> it's pretty useless for taking beryl vids though :'(
* crimsun wonders why he would set away when he's not actually away
<crimsun> anyhoo.
<dholbach> matid: nice
<matid> dholbach: I'm not really sure if I'm active enough to be accepted. I wrote an email to Benjamin Mako Hill and asked him to review my application, but I bet his really busy right now, with the release so soon
<dholbach> matid: you did some good work on the bug front already and I'm happy to have you there
<dholbach> matid: be sure to ping me before the meeting and I'll do my best to be there
<superm1> dholbach,  its at 1400 utc tues fyi
<matid> dholbach: Ok, I will. Thanks a lot!
<strawtarget> yo crimsun - there's a bug in alsa-lib 1.0.10 that's fixed in 1.0.11.  I saw a couple threads as results of google postings that indicated that a backport of 1.0.11 wasn't gonna happen, so I merged in the very small changes that fix the problem into 1.0.10-2ubuntu4 and created a bugfixed package so my libasound2 would work properly.
<crimsun> for dapper, I presume
<crimsun> send me the debdiff and/or file a bug against alsa-lib, attaching the debdiff, and I'll get it
<strawtarget> I can send you the source package (dsc and diff.gz)... I named it 1.0.10-2ubuntu4studio1 but if you approve you can just change the changelog to 2ubuntu5 right?
<crimsun> no, I can't just upload it. Dapper's already released; I would need explicit approval from a distro manager to upload it to dapper-updates.
<crimsun> what you can do is generate a debdiff by invoking debdiff against the two dscs
<dholbach> matid, superm1: thanks
<strawtarget> ah, okay.
<superm1> dholbach, I'm running too, if imbrandon or LaserJock can't make it, can you vouge for me as well?
<strawtarget> I can do that.  the changes are very minimal.  I just added one small dpatch.  seeing as how this is a very small code modification that fixes a bug, is there any hope that it might make it into dapper-updates?
<strawtarget> might the distro manager might approve since it's pretty trivial change isolated to just the bugfix itself?
<crimsun> strawtarget: if the dpatch is eyeballable, I don't see why not
<strawtarget> groovy
<dholbach> superm1: where did we meet? or work together? I'm sorry - I might have forgotten you
<adolson> it's a pretty major bug for some people by the sounds of it.. no audio capture in one of the two channels
<strawtarget> I've never used debdiff but I will give it a try and send it to the email address in the changelog in the package.
<dholbach> I remember Mateusz' mails from the dekstop-bugs list
<crimsun> adolson: then it really needs to be filed in LP
<superm1> dholbach, i haven't directly worked with you.  i'd assmed you had seen the chatter back and forth with me, LaserJock, imbrandon and lfittl
<strawtarget> yeah- it affects all AC97 interfaces and (I think) many more.
<superm1> the last two or three weeks
<adolson> strawtarget: isn't it already filed in Launchpad?
<superm1> related to mythtv, mythplugins, and backstep
<dholbach> superm1: I'm sorry - I guess I was too busy to realize... I saw your nick now and then, yes
<strawtarget> adolson: I read two bug reports, I'm not sure where they were.  they seemed like official ubuntu things.  IIRC, the context was a request for a 1.0.11 backport and it was rejected.
<superm1> imbrandon, said he'd try to get up early for it, and LaserJock said he'd stop by as long as he's on, just wanted to cover all ends in case something comes up.
<adolson> ah yeah, a ticket.. https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+ticket/1000
<strawtarget> that ticket includes lots of responders with a variety of problems.  this patch only addresses the broken audio capture bug, but it does related directly to that ticket.
<matid> I'll have to find someone else too, in case Daniel wouldn't be albe to come. I guess I can't convience the CC with as little as 211000 of karma...
<crimsun> that tickets makes me want to cry
<crimsun> ticket, rather
<crimsun> granted it's not immediately obvious to the casual user that HDA is completely unrelated
<strawtarget> crimsun, the responders that have "the problem" are Jesse Buchanan, Cimmo, and pancho
<crimsun> matid: karma isn't as important
<crimsun> strawtarget: right
<strawtarget> this is the dpatch.  straight out of 1.0.11 sources. http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/AYCqVH18.html
<matid> crimsun: I know. I rather ment that I won't be able to convince them only with the carma.
<matid> ;)
<strawtarget> the only other changes that might appear in any debdiff would be the changelog entry I made, which simply notes the addition of that dpatch.
<strawtarget> and here's that : http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/eX6oYo99.html
<strawtarget> of course the 1.0.10-2ubuntu4studio1 would need to be changed, but hey.
<crimsun> if you can break out the dpatch itself and attach it to the ticket or a new bug report, that would be most efficient
<strawtarget> oh crap and the 00list change, too.
<crimsun> just the dpatch will be sufficient
<strawtarget> yeah the dpatch itself is easy.
<crimsun> please attribute it, though (usually an hg changeset with the raw url will work)
<strawtarget> crimsun: this is the first dpatch I've ever made.  what's an hg changeset?
<crimsun> strawtarget: it's the upstream commit
<strawtarget> are you talking about a link to the CVS where this patch was actually applied in alsa-lib 1.0.11?  (sorry I'm such a n00b...)
<crimsun> sure, that would work, but cvs is defunct now, so you'll probably need to pull it from hg-mirror
<crimsun> (although you might just pull the cvs commit from the sourceforge commit log)
<strawtarget> I dug through the sourceforge CVS online browser thing and kinda came up dry, mostly because I'm really used to websvn and svn and not CVS and I couldn't figure out how to get the exact changeset corresponding to the exact log entry.  Truth be told, I couldn't even FIND the exact log entry I was looking for.  I made this patch simply by examining the changelog files between the 1.0.11 release candidate versions, fiding the
<strawtarget> right rc revision, and doing the diff on the mixer code myself.
<crimsun> http://hg-mirror.alsa-project.org/alsa-lib?cmd=changeset;node=71eb744cd5be42cd7ebd14edf5f3f2e2da6ba35d;style=gitweb
<strawtarget> you rock
<adolson> of course he does
<adolson> that's why he's paid the big bucks
* dholbach hugs crimsun
<adolson> who is dholbach?
<crimsun> who's paying me big bucks?
<adolson> some say he is He-Man
<dholbach> adolson: that's a good question
<dholbach> adolson: once I'm sure about the answer, I'll let you know
<ajmitch> morning
<adolson> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> crimsun is still awake? man...
<strawtarget> so, basically, I spent all damn day figuring out how to modify a debian package and pretty much for all for naught, right?
<strawtarget> :)
* dholbach -> dogwalk and thinking about adolson's questions
<givre> What'll happens to package which are still in the queue after the universe freeze
<crimsun> strawtarget: well, no, not for naught
<crimsun> givre: they explode, sorry, you lose
<adolson> strawtarget: no, now you can contribute packages to universe :)
<givre> there is still lot's of package in NEW
<LaserJock> givre: I think they'll get processed, but I"m not positive about that
<superm1> givre, they still build
<strawtarget> I suppose I did get to sucessfully test it and make sure it worked.  and I learned what a dpatch was and what dpkg-source and dpkg-buildpackage do.
<LaserJock> givre: lots of them are binary NEW
<superm1> question popped up yesteday
<LaserJock> givre: which means the source has already been approved so it's not as big of a deal I don't think
<LaserJock> hmm, nobody seemds to want the Beta server .iso :/
<strawtarget> okay.  I will 1. create an account on launchpad.  2. fix my dpatch to reference that changeset URL.  3. submit the dpatch or debdiff.
<crimsun> sounds good. Make sure you file it against alsa-lib and link ticket 1000 to the new bug
<strawtarget> will do.
<givre> LaserJock: right, but for exemple brasero (source) is still not accept. Does that means that they are implicitly rejected ?
<LaserJock> no
<ajmitch> hm, which version of brasero?
<ajmitch> did pygi update it?
<LaserJock> don't know, he was working on it but I thought he gave up
* ajmitch was working on it
<LaserJock> oh
<givre> ajmitch: no it seams to be an old version (2006-09-21)
<ajmitch> I ended up having a package that worked, but needed some small things like debian/copyright & descriptions in debian/control
<ajmitch> one that works with libburn, which had to be redone
<pygi> ajmitch: nop, haven't updated it
<pygi> and morning
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> morning pygi :)
<ajmitch> oldest package I have in NEW (source) is 10 days :)
<pygi> ajmitch: will you update brasero then and upload it?
<ajmitch> maybe, but it hasn't received any checking
<pygi> ajmitch: ah, it should be all fine
<pygi> and Kamion/Infinity will reject them if they are bad
<ajmitch> I really hate doing that
<pygi> hm, right
<slomo_> dholbach: hm, still alot of stuff on NEW
<slomo_> ajmitch, pygi: shall i upload you the brasero package from NEW somewhere?
<pygi> slomo_: ajmitch worked on 0.4.91 already
<pygi> poke him to check if the package is good, so he could upload :P
<ajmitch> slomo_: whatever, I don't really have time to work on this one
<ajmitch> I have to get to work soon
* slomo_ neither
<slomo_> but i would prefer a package based on the debian one
<ajmitch> so would I
<pygi> slomo_: Debian doesn't have Brasero I think
<ajmitch> instead of one which I threw together very quickly
<slomo_> but their's is on NEW, our's is on NEW
<ajmitch> http://ajmitch.dyndns.org/debuild/pbuilder/results/brasero/
<ajmitch> source+amd64 package for what I've done
<ajmitch> let me just rebuild it to update the source package
<slomo_> pygi: mine on http://slomosnail.de/~slomo/temp
<slomo_> do whatever you want with it but you know my oppinion about switching to libburn now ;)
<pygi> slomo_: yes, yes :)
<pygi> slomo_: you tried n-c-b with libburn? :)
<slomo_> pygi: maybe create your own "libburn-everywhere" repository for edgy to get wider testing and then we can possibly just take everything from there for edgy+1 ;)
<slomo_> nope, had no time :(
<Nafallo> pygi: if you do, I will test :-)
<slomo_> (and no cdr or money to buy some here)
<pygi> slomo_: oki, no worries :)
<pygi> Nafallo: hehe :)
* ajmitch really needed more sleep last night
<LaserJock> so what's libburn supposed to do?
<pygi> slomo_: I could create my own repo, right :)
<pygi> Don't know where tho :)
<slomo_> LaserJock: what the name says ;)
<slomo_> pygi: ask for an account on tiber :)
<LaserJock> CLI burning like cdrecord
<LaserJock> ?
<pygi> LaserJock: uh, uh, not really :)
<slomo_> LaserJock: "lib"burn :P
<pygi> slomo_: nah, won't bug decent people :)
<pygi> slomo_: will find place somewhere
<LaserJock> so for Nautilus
<LaserJock> et. al.
<pygi> LaserJock: no :)
<LaserJock> fine, I'm stupid
<pygi> LaserJock: not really :P
<slomo_> pygi: tell me where it is when you found a place, i will use it :)
<pygi> It's a library for burning cd's :P
<pygi> slomo_: will do :)
<LaserJock> sure, but don't we already have libraries for burning cds? or am I wrong
<bddebian> pygi: Hey, you aren't answering over there---> :-)
<pygi> LaserJock: we don't :P
<pygi> bddebian: you probably aren't identified, so I don't get nothing you know :)
<LaserJock> pygi: ok :-)
<bddebian> Oh shit, right I got disconnected
<pygi> slomo_: hopefully at least we can get proper libburn packages in archive for edgy :P
<pygi> otherwise I'll eat someone
<LaserJock> shesh, *another* iTunes download
<ajmitch> pygi: 'hopefully'? are mine not good enough? ;)
<LaserJock> at least apple has a blazing fast server
<pygi> ajmitch: well, I'm talking about yours ;)
<pygi> current packages are mess :(
<ajmitch> yay for binary NEW
<LaserJock> anybody torrenting the beta .isos?
* pygi is out of bandwith, heh
<LaserJock> I'm experimenting
<ajmitch> LaserJock: nope
<LaserJock> I rsynced the Ubuntu alternate and server .iso and the Kubuntu desktop and alternate .iso
<LaserJock> now I'm just seeding them (I think that's the right term)
* ajmitch wonders if libburn was on revu
<Nafallo> LaserJock: yes
<pygi> ajmitch: the old packages from ivoks?
<ajmitch> pygi: yes
<pygi> I wouldn't say so :)
<ajmitch> I should grab the server images for work..
<Nafallo> LaserJock: seeding i386 desktop and leeching amd64 desktop
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> well, leeching is so very slow for me most of the time
<LaserJock> so I just rsync and seed
<LaserJock> maybe I can help some people with bad connections out
<Nafallo> or with rather good connections ;-)
* ajmitch is fetching server image via http at 330K/sec
* Nafallo gets the amd64 desktop at 25.9 kB/s though :-P
<LaserJock> yeah, I'm rsyncing at about 420K/sec
<pygi> ergh, share some connection of yours :P
<LaserJock> if I had a better mirror I'd be > 1M/sec
<ajmitch> Nafallo: ouch, that's slow
<LaserJock> I used to get a gentoo mirror at 4M/s
<LaserJock> full CD .iso in 1.5 min.
<ajmitch> LaserJock: at uni?
<Nafallo> ajmitch: 1 seeder etc... ;-)
<LaserJock> ajmitch: yep
<slomo_> LaserJock: hm, i downloaded one daily a few days ago with 1.7 M/s ;)
<LaserJock> nice
* Nafallo usually apt-gets 10Mbps :-P
* ajmitch only has 3.5Mbps DSL
<LaserJock> slomo_: localish mirror?
<LaserJock> bah, I've got 1.5Mbps DSL
<LaserJock> at home
<LaserJock> I just burn everything at the uni
<LaserJock> and home doko doesn't keep uploading OO.o updates all the time
<LaserJock> s/home/hope/
* ajmitch lives in a poor little country a long way from anywhere :)
<Nafallo> ajmitch: baah! you guys have hobbits! :-)
<LaserJock> whatever
<LaserJock> and sheep!
<LaserJock> ;-)
<Nafallo> hihi
<ajmitch> LaserJock: you go on my ignore list :P
<LaserJock> well, I'm uploading the Ubuntu alternate at ~110k/s
<LaserJock> but kubuntu desktop is almost nothing
<ajmitch> probably because noone wants kubuntu
<LaserJock> all those KDE guys must be too snoby to use a torrent
<LaserJock> ;-)
<Nafallo> hm. only sparc and ia64 building it seems :-P
<LaserJock> hmm, Ubuntu came pretty close to being oversized
<LaserJock> right at 700MB it seems
<LaserJock> for the alternate
<LaserJock> poor edubuntu has to keep tossing things out
<LaserJock> do stay trim
<LaserJock> *to
<adolson> heh
<sistpoty> hi folks
<LaserJock> hi sistpoty
<sistpoty> hey LaserJock
<lfittl> hi sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi lfittl
<sistpoty> is universe frozen already?
<lfittl> not yet
<Nafallo> sistpoty: nope, dholbach is still awake ;-)
<sistpoty> hehe
<sistpoty> superm1: here?
<superm1> yea
<superm1> whats up
<sistpoty> superm1: I'm just taking a look at backstep...
<superm1> uh oh..... :)
<sistpoty> superm1: config.sub/config.guess shouldn't be part of .diff.gz
<sistpoty> superm1: you should copy these directly before you run configure, instead of the clean rule
<sistpoty> (or link)
<superm1> oh
<slomo_> sistpoty: well, a package should be in the same state after building and clean than before the build
<slomo_> sistpoty: so you should still copy the old ones somewhere else and restore them in clean
<sistpoty> slomo_: right, but having the old config.sub/guess lying around has no practical use (and it's more practical to just copy over instead of backup and restore)
<superm1> i'll see if i can remote home and fix quickly then
<slomo_> sistpoty: hm? i don't understand what you mean :)
<pygi> ajmitch: if you're still here what wasn't finished in brasero package?
<ajmitch> pygi: any & all testing, and descriptions
<slomo_> and merging with debian ;)
<ajmitch> and various little things that cdbs may not pick up
<ajmitch> yeah
<sistpoty> slomo_: while in theory it should be in the same state, it's just not really practical for config.sub/guess ;)
<mindcrime_> hey, whens the next lesson in the school?
<superm1> sistpoty, so then is it a big deal with config.sub/guess?
<slomo_> sistpoty: well, the rule for doing replace & restory is really easy...
<LaserJock> mindcrime_: when we have somebody available to teach it and a topic
<mindcrime_> oh ok
<LaserJock> mindcrime_: right now we are quite busy
<mindcrime_> so how do i go about learning stuff?
<ajmitch> slomo_: I'm really not attached to the packaging work I've done on it :)
<sistpoty> superm1: the way you do it right now makes the diff.gz unreadable, so you should copy it right before the configure call (don't listen to slomo_ :P)
<sistpoty> slomo_: no it's not, but it has no really practical use, at least none that I know of :P
<slomo_> sistpoty: you can still get it in the diff.gz otherwise ;)
<slomo_> sistpoty: 1) build the package from that source tree b) build a source package from the same source tree => config.{sub,guess} are in the diff.gz
<sistpoty> slomo_: harr... of course you should remove then in clean
<sistpoty> or superm1 even ^^
<slomo_> sistpoty: or that, yes... i still prefer the replace & restore solution ;)
<sistpoty> slomo_: sure, it's the real picky-stick-to-the-idempotency-rule-solution *g*
<pygi> are we in freeze already or not?
<LaserJock> not until dholbach goes to sleep
<pygi> LaserJock: ok, so he's still not sleeping? :)
<pygi> dholbach: you have a lot of coffee, right? :)
<dholbach> no, not really :)
<pygi> dholbach: hm, want me to bring you some? :)
<Nafallo> hehe
<superm1> so would it be feasible to jsut rm config.guess/sub during clean, and move the step that i'm normally doing to copy from /usr/share/misc/config.sub/guess to the build step?
<dholbach> sounds good ;-)
<slomo_> pygi: why do you ask? libburn or brasero? ;)
<pygi> slomo_: something third, edubuntu related
<slomo_> ah ok :)
<pygi> dholbach: will do, how many cups do you need?
<dholbach> I'm aiming at 22:00 utc
<dholbach> that's late enough for me :)
<pygi> dholbach: not enough for me :P
<sistpoty> superm1: I was trying to suggest that (actually directly before you call configure)
<Nafallo> 1h6m ;-)
<dholbach> there are still UVF exception etc
<superm1> ok
<superm1> i'll clean it up and resubmit
<superm1> considering it got actually put into the build queue, should i bump the version too?
* pygi puts dholbach in semi-sleeping state for next 10 hours
<sistpoty> superm1: has it been uploaded already?
<superm1> yes
<Nafallo> ajmitch: btw, did you forget about advocating network-manager-pptp before uploading it? :-)
<sistpoty> grml...
<Nafallo> ajmitch: and when to archive the thing? :-)
<ajmitch> Nafallo: I wasn't logged into REVU at the time so I didn't particularly care :)
<sistpoty> superm1: well, than there is no urge to fix it... and yes you'd need to bump the version too then
<Nafallo> ajmitch: hehe, do now then ;-)
<superm1> ok
<ajmitch> will do soon
<Nafallo> :-)
* Nafallo takes a look at the rest of network-manager-* :-P
<Toadstool> heya everybody
<sistpoty> hi Toadstool
<Toadstool> hey sistpoty
<pygi> dholbach: I might be able to present you something telepathy-related for edgy+1 hopefully
<dholbach> ahhhh nice!
<dholbach> I look forward to seeing it :)
<pygi> Yes, it'll be nice if I manage to pull it out :P
<matid> pygi: That'd be great
<pygi> two hours of sleep per night is not enough currently  :)
<matid> dholbach: By the way, I got accepted into Ubuntu QA team, so I'll be triaging more and more bugs from now on ;)
<superm1> sistpoty, what should I do with the debdiff at this point, should I throw it on REVU?
<pygi> dholbach: http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/6354/uishotnp7.png
<pygi> if you got a sec :)
<sistpoty> superm1: I propose that you wait until it's through the new queue (or at least until after universefreeze, to not add more confusion)
<dholbach> pygi: hmmm, that looks lovely
<matid> pygi: Wow, that's AMAZING!
<superm1> Ok. at that point, should i just make a bug for it and add the debdiff to that
<sistpoty> superm1: then you can also simply file a bug in lp and attach the debdiff (usually easier than a complete revu upload)
<sistpoty> hehe
<superm1> yea thats what i figured
<superm1> k
<superm1> thanks for the look at it and catching that
<pygi> dholbach, matid : glad you like it :)
<sistpoty> np
<LaserJock> superm1: sorry, I should have looked at that before I uploaded it
<matid> pygi: It's really slick, I'd love to see it in Edgy+1
<pygi> matid: I'd love to see it actually working first :P
<superm1> LaserJock, not a big deal, thats why there are so many eyes here :)
<matid> pygi: Is it written in Python?
<pygi> matid: no, sorry :)
<matid> pygi: Nothing to be sorry about, I don't know Python well ;)
<matid> pygi: It's just that more and more cool software is written in Python
<matid> pygi: What is it then?
<matid> pygi: C?
<LaserJock> OT: anybody know of a cheap place to register a domain?
<pygi> matid: yes, C
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, GoDaddy are cheap with everything.
<Fujitsu> And I have a friend with a few domains with them.
<matid> LaserJock: I register my domain names with DreamHost, since together with my hosting plan
* pygi thinks yahoo was selling domains at $2.99
<matid> Fujitsu: I don't really like they're interface, together with the registration process. It's quite cluttered.
<pygi> dholbach: o btw: do we have telepathy-butterfly in edgy?
<matid> s/they're/their/
<dholbach> it was accepted earlier
<dholbach> yes
<pygi> yay!
<dholbach> so it might still need to build
<pygi> as long as they'll be in archive, I'm happy :)
<ajmitch> morning Fujitsu, you're up unhealthily early
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, I always get up at 7am.
<matid> Ok, I'm going to get some sleep. See you guys tomorrow.
<pygi> laters matid
<Fujitsu> Bye, matid.
<matid> Good night, everyone
<LaserJock> yeah, I'm finding godaddy a little confusing/cluttered
<strawtarget> crimsun: you're quick!
<strawtarget> crimsun: hope I did the URL in the dpatch okay.  the URL wrapped, but I guess people will figure it out.
<crimsun> strawtarget: I need to prepare an e-mail according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates ; you'll be CCed
<strawtarget> thanks
<Plug_> I've had a -pptp bug reported already
<ajmitch> Plug_: special, it's not even in the archive
<Plug> so there will be other uploads required :)
<Plug> ajmitch: through my blog
* ajmitch looks
<ajmitch> Plug: fixes are fine
<chillywilly> hi
<Plug> ajmitch: which were the wrong files?
<Fujitsu> We're not frozen yet, are we?
<ajmitch> .la, etc
<givre> do you think i have enough time to make a little change in ntfs-3g package before universe freeze, i'd like to change the description title which is a bit short : 'ntfs-3g driver' to something more human understable
<ajmitch> dev files that wouldn't be needed
<Nafallo> ajmitch: are you going to check the rest of network-manager-* as well? :-)
<ajmitch> Nafallo: I cared most about -pptp since it was done by a different person who was gently encouraging me to review it ;)
<Plug> ajmitch: whats the magic in clearing them out before building?
<Nafallo> ajmitch: well, should be almost the same packaging requirements I guess. at least they look alike to me :-). but some stuff are in different places in -pptp than in those other, that's more to the point why I ask really ;-).
<ajmitch> rm
<ajmitch> :)
<Nafallo> hehe
<Nafallo> magic command that one :-)
<ajmitch> either that or stuff with dh_install
<ajmitch> but sometimes the basics are easier
<givre> anyway i'll do it
<LaserJock> givre: Universe Freeze doesn't affect that
<givre> LaserJock: ok thanks
<givre> LaserJock: i feal sometimes really stupid.
<LaserJock> me too
<givre> ok, that's upload, if somebody could gently review it. Thanks . http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3298 ;)
* pygi looks
<Nafallo> Universe has frozen :-P
<Nafallo> 2 minutes ago
<pygi> dholbach: I told you to wait for the coffee !
<pygi> :)
<dholbach> pygi: I'm too tired and it's the 29th here already ;)
* dholbach hugs pygi
<pygi> dholbach: same here, 7 minutes already :)
<pygi> dholbach: oki, night then ;)
<dholbach> you will find all the instructions for UVF exception requests in that mail
<dholbach> have a nice evening everybody
<pygi> I know instructions , don't worry
<pygi> night :)
<Nafallo> gnight dholbach :-)
<givre> night dholbach
<sistpoty> gn8 dholbach
<lfittl> gn8 dholbach
<dholbach> night guys :-)
<pygi> givre: was that your package from the start?
#ubuntu-motu 2006-09-29
<zul> dholbach: i might have to beg for an upload laer..
<givre> pygi: right
<dholbach> zul: no problem
<dholbach> seeya
<LaserJock> good night dholbach
<pygi> givre: if daniel thinks it's good if you apply that patch he mentioned, then it's good by me, tho perhaps it would be better if you didn't include patch system and just patched source directly
<pygi> ntfs-3g_20060920-0ubuntu2.diff.gz is kind of patch system for itself anyway
<pygi> but it's fine, just ignore me :)
<Toadstool> Maintainer: Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com> <-- this is new or I missed another improvement?
<Toadstool> (with the Original-Maintainer: field)
<LaserJock> ohhh
<ajmitch> Toadstool: recent change on launchpad
<LaserJock> Toadstool: where did you see that
<givre> pygi: what do you mean by patching source directly ?
<Toadstool> LaserJock: apt-cache show quicksynergy
<Toadstool> ajmitch: ok, cool :)
<pygi> givre: well, patching the source with a diff instead of including patch system?
<LaserJock> well, that's the implementation from that Debian decision, right?
<givre> pygi: for the ldconfig stuff ?
<pygi> givre: yup
<pygi> givre: but as I said, feel free to ignore me :)
<givre> pygi: ok, didn't know that there were an exception for that, i usualy follow the 'don't touch the source' religion
<pygi> givre: don't worry, it's fine this way as well, at least patch system related. I'm just telling you what I personally prefer:)
<pygi> givre: you applied that debdiff from daniel?
<givre> pygi: right, and then i follow the advice of Fujitsu (debian/changelog & README.Debian stuff...)
<pygi> givre: dunno what was Fujitsu's advice, but he's probably right whatever he suggested :)
<Fujitsu> I'm pretty sure I'm right :)
<pygi> Fujitsu: have I said anything wrong? :)
<givre> Fujitsu: of course you are right :)
<Fujitsu> Well, not wrong, but patching the source in the .diff.gz is a little against my policies, but it's OK.
<pygi> Fujitsu: hm, interesting :)
<pygi> Fujitsu: any reasons why? :)
<Fujitsu> It makes changes harder to weed out.
<Fujitsu> With stuff in debian/patches, the different patches are obviously seperated.
<micahcowan> pygi, ...than if you use a patch system that goes under debian/ .
<pygi> micahcowan: I know that ;)
<Fujitsu> Whereas with manual patching in the .diff.gz, you can't see the seperate changes.
<Fujitsu> And you have to run diff to actually see the changes.
<micahcowan> And you can't back out individual changes.
<Fujitsu> micahcowan, exactly what I said :)
<micahcowan> Er, yeah, I guess you did.
<pygi> micahcowan: if I know the package I maintain, don't see reasons why I couldn't remove the patch any time it's needed
<givre> pygi: the advantage could be when different people maintain the same package
<micahcowan> Yeah, but if you get to where you have perhaps 12 different patches (not at all uncommon), and decide you need to pull one of them back out, a patches system makes that a whole lot easier.
<pygi> givre: right, if you create a new package you can use dpatch or whatever, but I don't think it's recommened to add patch system to synced debian packages for example who don't already have it
<micahcowan> Even more important (imo), if you find there's a bug between the orig and patched versions, you can use the patching system to isolate which patch broke it.
<micahcowan> pygi, right, I wouldn't do that.
<pygi> givre: that's the reason why I said you can ignore my suggestions :)
<givre> pygi: ok, i'll ignore it :)
<pygi> micahcowan: in that case, better just to patch directly :)
<pygi> ok, I'll just stop now :)
<givre> pygi: but i'll remenber your advice about debian packages ;)
<Fujitsu> micahcowan, some people do do that, it's a trade-off.
<micahcowan> do what, switch the debian package to a patching system?
<pygi> Fujitsu: but would you say that's a good practice? I wouldn't :P
<pygi> givre: yes, that's one of rare good advices I give :)
<Fujitsu> But patching the source manually is /incredibly/ bad practice.
<micahcowan> pygi, I could see doing it in some situations. Like, when it's all gotten just too convoluted.
<Fujitsu> Adding a patch system increases divergence from Debian, but makes the divergence a whole lot easier to manage.
<Fujitsu> It's only a couple of lines of changes to add a patch system, anyway.
<micahcowan> So, it basically depends on which one will be harder to manage: the disparity between the Ubuntu and Debian versions, or the convolutions of all the patches being schlumped altogether, yes?
<micahcowan> (I'ma patent the use of the word "schlumped")
<Fujitsu> micahcowan, pretty much.
<givre> all that is really interesting guys, but it doesn't make my change uploading or even advocating :)
<micahcowan> also weighed against the psychological harm of having to deal with direct-patching the source :)
<Fujitsu> Yeah, I could never bring myself to direct-patch the source, it's just wrong wrong wrong.
<micahcowan> Not as wrong as direct-patching the source... that resides in .orig.tgz would be :D
<Fujitsu> Urgh urgh urgh.
* Fujitsu runs off to vomit.
<givre> lol
<pygi> hehe :)
<ajmitch> what an interesting reaction from Fujitsu
<ajmitch> I'd better not show him my packages
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, wouldn't you do that at the suggestion of patching the .orig.tgz?
<ajmitch> usually, yes
<zul> uh...better not see xen-tools then
<Fujitsu> zul, I don't plan to see it :P
<ajmitch> zul: protect his poor innocent eyes
<Nafallo> hmm, something is wrong. the buildds are idling :-P
<Fujitsu> Nafallo, impossible!
<ajmitch> Nafallo: yes, edgy needs unfrozen by a launchpad admin
<givre> stupid network
<givre> nobody to advocate http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3298 ?
<Fujitsu> givre, why did you change the download URL?
<givre> Fujitsu: i change nothing
<givre> (how can i)
<Fujitsu> -It was downloaded from http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/mlf/ezaz/ntfs-3g-download.html
<Fujitsu> +It was downloaded from http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/mlf/ezaz/ntfs-3g-20070920-BETA.tgz
<givre> a right
<givre> i though it was better since  http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/mlf/ezaz/ntfs-3g-download.html will not always redirct you to the 20070920 version but to the currant version
<givre> and i didn't know if i had to include that in the changelog
<Fujitsu> Remember that debian/copyright shouldn't have to change each time you make a new release.
<Fujitsu> So the original one is better.
<Nafallo> it's not really about where to find the source on the ever changing web. it's where YOU found the source :-)
* Nafallo wonders if he could write file:///tmp/ there ;-)
<Fujitsu> I was told it should be the URL of the download page, the not the tarball itself.
<Fujitsu> Nafallo, probably ;P
<givre> Fujitsu: ok, so i revert the change ?
<Fujitsu> givre, I believe so.
<sistpoty> Nafallo: maybe /dev/random?
<pygi> siretart: why not /dev/null then? :)
<givre> Fujitsu: i'll do that
<sistpoty> pygi: it won't give you anything :P
<Nafallo> sistpoty: hehe, I could not possible find a tarball there now, could I? ;-)
<pygi> siretart: anything is something, also
<pygi> sistpoty: *
<sistpoty> Nafallo: just try long enough ;)
<pygi> sorry sir-etart :)
<Nafallo> :-P
<pygi> sistpoty: don't discriminate nothing :)
<sistpoty> hehe
<givre> Fujitsu: done :http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3299
<Fujitsu> Can a more knowledgeable MOTU please tell me if I can just upload an updated package with the same version number of an existing one in NEW?
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: unlikely
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, OK... There's a small change in ntfs-3g, do I upload it now?
<givre> Fujitsu: ntfs-3g_20060920-0ubuntu2 is not in NEW
<Fujitsu> No, but -0ubuntu1 is.
<tuxmaniac> Guys.. Can I upgrade to edgy now? Any issues found in upgrading from Dapper to Edgy?
<givre> Fujitsu: ah ok, i understand
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: up to you
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, so things shouldn't explode if I do?
<ajmitch> you'll fine out - I'm fairly sure that it'll reject it if the version is the same as in NEW
<Q-FUNK> tuxmaniac: fire at will
<tuxmaniac> Q-FUNK> firing
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, why would you upload the same version number ?
<tuxmaniac> Has the beta been released?
<ajmitch> tuxmaniac: yes
<imbrandon> tuxmaniac, yes
<tuxmaniac> w0w0w0w0
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, it's just a very minor change, so I thought it would be better to be -0ubuntu1 if possible.
* tuxmaniac dist-upgrading
<Q-FUNK> YES
<Fujitsu> But -0ubuntu2 it is.
<tuxmaniac> see ya guys..
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: I could be wrong, of course
<Q-FUNK> dist-upgrade -u
<tuxmaniac> Its 5 in the morning here..
<tuxmaniac> Q-FUNK> whats -u flag for?
<Q-FUNK> 2:35 here and I really should be getting some sleep
<Fujitsu> Q-FUNK, I think -d wants to be thrown in there as well...
<Q-FUNK> tuxmaniac: to upgrade packages that need a new dependency too
<Fujitsu> (because it hasn't been released yet)
<Fujitsu> Oh.
<Fujitsu> dist-upgrade, not update-notifier thing.
<Q-FUNK> aye
<Q-FUNK> as in apt-get option
<Fujitsu> Yeah.
<Q-FUNK> aga nd ma peaksin nukkuma
* tuxmaniac starts and head to bed..
<Q-FUNK> 'night!
<Fujitsu> Bye, tuxmaniac.
* Q-FUNK goes too
<Fujitsu> Goodnight.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: You busy atm?
<Fujitsu> TheMuso, nope.
<Fujitsu> Well, I'm doing something else, but it can be temporarily stopped.
<TheMuso> COuld I give you a debdiff to review/upload for me please? The package you will need the source for is espeak.
<Fujitsu> OK, fine :)
<TheMuso> The debdiff is at http://www.themuso.id.au/ubuntu/1.15-0ubuntu1_1.15-0ubuntu2.diff
<TheMuso> Something I kinda missed when updating the package originally. :)
<Fujitsu> I'll fix up a spelling mistake or two in the changelog entry, if you don't mind :)
<TheMuso> no :)
<imbrandon> heya TheMuso
<TheMuso> Hey imbrandon.
<TheMuso> How goes it/
<Fujitsu> Anybody here know how to force mod_python into reloading a script?
* Fujitsu prods his local REVU installation.
<imbrandon> good, busy but good ;)
<sistpoty> Fujitsu: you can try with "PythonAutoReload On" in .htaccess/apache-conf
<sistpoty> Fujitsu: but it never seemed to work the way intended for me though
<Fujitsu> sistpoty, I did, it doesn't seem to work if the script dies. :(
<sistpoty> Fujitsu: the only thing I then do is to restart apache :(
<Fujitsu> Yeah, though even that sometimes doesn't work. mod_python is a strange being.
<sistpoty> definitely!
<Fujitsu> But it'
<Fujitsu> *it's great when it works.
<Fujitsu> Uploaded, TheMuso.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: thanks.
<Fujitsu> No problem.
* Nafallo > bed, gnight
<Fujitsu> TheMuso, espeak is quite impressive!
<TheMuso> You playing with it?
<Fujitsu> Yeah.
<TheMuso> Tis one of the best speech synthesizers around at the moment that is open source.
<Fujitsu> It's very good, and it's small as well.
<TheMuso> Yep,
<Fujitsu> A valuable and worthwhile addition to universe, I think.
<Fujitsu> But it uses OSS :(
<TheMuso> PortAudio actually
<Fujitsu> Which uses OSS, I suppose.
<Fujitsu> Yes, it does. That's unfortunate :(
<TheMuso> Yeah.
<lupine_85> aoss ++ :)
<TheMuso> But it can output wave files, which can easily be piped through to aplay
<sistpoty> does anyone know how I can push my local revu2 branch back to launchpad?
<imbrandon> sistpoty, cant you just bzr push ?
<imbrandon> and / or bzr push <url>
<sistpoty> imbrandon: yay, thanks... I just found out that I got the directory wrong :)
<imbrandon> hehe ;)
<sistpoty> it's doing s.th. right now (i hope the right thing *g*)
<Fujitsu> sistpoty, I noticed that REVU2 was missing from LP... I must have a look at it.
<sistpoty> Fujitsu: it's still a long way to go :/... https://launchpad.net/people/revu-hackers/+branch/revu/revu2-trunk
<Fujitsu> Well, I'm happy to work on any REVU-thing if you want.
<Fujitsu> http://theblight.net/misc/germany.jpg
<TheMuso> Cool Found out this morning about a newly open-sourced OCR engine.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso, nice... Which?
* TheMuso grumbles about it being after universe freeze. :)
<TheMuso> http://sourceforge.net/projects/tesseract-ocr
<imbrandon> TheMuso, always can go into F.... F.... ;)
<sistpoty> Fujitsu: sure, every help is welcome :)
<TheMuso> imbrandon: ?
<Fujitsu> sistpoty, I plan to help :)
<imbrandon> e.g edgy+1
<TheMuso> Thats the plan.
<imbrandon> ;)
<TheMuso> Just need to make sure all the code in it is licensed properly.
* Fujitsu looks.
<Fujitsu> sistpoty, that branch is broken:
<Fujitsu> `Launchpad could not mirror this branch at 2006-09-29 10:20:09 EST.  The error was: Not a branch: /srv/sm-ng/push-branches/00/00/05/61/;
<sistpoty> grml...
<sistpoty> I suck at bzr!
<Fujitsu> sistpoty, or LP could be the sucky thing.
<sistpoty> maybe... I'll retry pushing
<Fujitsu> Last revision on LP is r77...
<TheMuso> THis is weir.
<TheMuso> weird.
<Fujitsu> What is?
<TheMuso> Part of this code is said to be licensed differently, but I can't find exactly what license it is supposed to be under.
<Fujitsu> I'm downloading it, and I'll look at it...
* Fujitsu drums fingers on table.
<TheMuso> I don't mind packaging it, but I don't think it can be unless the license of one of the bits of code is clearly layed out.
<TheMuso> It is under the apache license
<sistpoty> Fujitsu: now this is weird... bzr checkout sftp://sistpoty@bazaar.launchpad.net/~revu-hackers/revu/revu2-trunk/trunk gets me the latest revision
<Fujitsu> TheMuso, is it clearly said which files are under which licenses?
<TheMuso> not really no
<TheMuso> The README/COPYING files say that the aspirin directory contents are licensed differently, but an exact license is not stated.
<Fujitsu> Yes it is.
<Fujitsu> And it's not compliant with the DFSG.
<Fujitsu> `If you wish to use it for commercial gain you must contact
<Fujitsu> The MITRE Corporation for conditions of use.'
<Fujitsu> I wonder how critical that file is....
<TheMuso> Yeah I saw that.
<TheMuso> but I sitll think it is a little vague.
<TheMuso> hmmm damn
<TheMuso> SO it is not entirely open source then.
<TheMuso> This stinks.
<Fujitsu> It is open source, just not DFSG-free.
<TheMuso> Yeah.
<TheMuso> What are the rules/guidelines for packages in multiverse?
<Fujitsu> I'm going to see what that non-free bit does.
<TheMuso> What is even more annoying is that the aspirin code is included in the final binary.
<Fujitsu> Oh, I think I see what it does.
<TheMuso> Wow thats quick
<TheMuso> How do you know?
<Fujitsu> It's something to do with a network...
<Fujitsu> OK, now I Google!
<Fujitsu> Neural network simulator...
<Fujitsu> OK, now just how critical is it..
<TheMuso> :q
<TheMuso> gah wrong console
<TheMuso> Whats more, they don't include the autoconf surce file for the configure script
<Fujitsu> That's true.
<TheMuso> Idiots
<TheMuso> Removed configure.ac
<Fujitsu> Yeah.
* TheMuso checks out cvs to see if its there
<TheMuso> Yes, cvs does have configure.ac
<Fujitsu> Ah, that's good.
<TheMuso> Yeah.
<Fujitsu> sistpoty, what's the latest revision you get when you checkout via SFTP?
<Fujitsu> (I think the SFTP and HTTP versions must be out of sync)
<sistpoty> Fujitsu: I'm just repairing the repository with the help of jamesh
<Fujitsu> OK, good :)
<Fujitsu> Ah, I see.
<Fujitsu> Damnit. Of course, I can't see the branch through SFTP, 'cause I'm not in the group.
<Fujitsu> That would be part of the reason it was exploding so badly.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: you sure you uploaded espeak?
<TheMuso> I can't see anything in edgy changes archives
<ajmitch> TheMuso: maybe it still had unstable in the changelog
<TheMuso> ajmitch: no
<TheMuso> It didn't.
<TheMuso> And it was a deps fix
<Fujitsu> Remember that Edgy is still frozen.
<Fujitsu> It needs to be manually approved.
<TheMuso> ah right
<ajmitch> right, forgot that they hadn't thawed it out
<TheMuso> same here
<Fujitsu> Yeah, 'tis annoying.
<Fujitsu> Now to wait 15 minutes for REVU2 trunk to mirror :(
<sistpoty> I'll better do a test-checkout to see if it's really all there
<Fujitsu> Yes, before 11:20 would be good :)
<Fujitsu> As I don't want to have to wait another mirroring cycle.
<Fujitsu> I don't see why they can't have commit hooks that automagically update the mirror.
<Fujitsu> That'd give a much better experience.
<sistpoty> Fujitsu: it's all there :)
<sistpoty> now I need a cigarette *g*
<Fujitsu> sistpoty, yay :)
* Fujitsu sleeps for 20.
<f4t4l`> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=267597
<imbrandon> f4t4l`, this isnt the place for support ( but i would image you need to hit f6 at the boot menu and add  acpi=off )
<f4t4l`> hmmmm
<f4t4l`> To add acpi=off?
<sistpoty> Fujitsu: should be on the mirror now (at least lp displays it now)
<Fujitsu> sistpoty, yes, I checked it out a few minutes ago.
<Fujitsu> r78 is the latest?
<sistpoty> Fujitsu: yes
<Fujitsu> Yay :)
<LaserJock> oh heck yeah
<Fujitsu> ?
<LaserJock> sorry
<LaserJock> I've got my own internet presence now ;-)
<Fujitsu> Yay!
<Fujitsu> What domain?
<crimsun> "now"?
<imbrandon> LaserJock, cool, but dident you have a blog before? or you mean a full domain
<LaserJock> http://laserjock.us/blog
<imbrandon> ;)
<Fujitsu> Haha, nice.
<LaserJock> imbrandon: yeah, I had a blog on wordpress
<LaserJock> but this is like full serverness
<LaserJock> with domain
<imbrandon> nice, my blog is wordpress ( self hosted etc etc etc ) so if you need a hand with anything lemme know, i've gotten prettyy good at hacking wp to do my bidding
<LaserJock> now I might even be on planet.u.c here pretty soon
<imbrandon> infact i just added a last.fm script to mine yesterday ;)
<imbrandon> rockin
<crimsun> hehe, all the deities on puc
<imbrandon> ;) speakin of crimsun where is your diety blog on puc ;)
<LaserJock> yeah
<crimsun> launchpad.net/people/me is my blog.
<imbrandon> hehe
<LaserJock> I don't get enough of your profound Ubuntu wisdom
<LaserJock> you must blog it to the world ;-)
<LaserJock> crimsun: I so wish people would do a bit more blogging there
<Fujitsu> revu-bot, ey....
<sistpoty> Fujitsu: well, that happens if I code with too many beer :)
<Fujitsu> Heheh.
* ajmitch goes & fanboys LaserJock's blog
<LaserJock> oh geeze
<LaserJock> non of that now
<ajmitch> but we must!
<imbrandon> awe i cant get an account on LaserJock's blog yet
<LaserJock> you didn't!
<Fujitsu> What a useful class LaunchpadInteraction is at the moment :)
<sistpoty> Fujitsu: yep... there are probably more stubs like this... revu2 is still a bit to go :/
<Fujitsu> Yeah, I know.
<Fujitsu> Any suggestions for stuff to work on?
<sistpoty> Fujitsu: hm...
<bddebian> *cough*bugs*cough*
* Fujitsu bugs bddebian.
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: lots of bugs in universe
<sistpoty> Fujitsu: what about launchpadinteraction? (there should be some stuff in revu1 to give some hints)
<sistpoty> Fujitsu: but anything else is ok as well
<Fujitsu> sistpoty, I was thinking of that :)
<Fujitsu> I've done some LP stuff before.
<sistpoty> Fujitsu: (apart from ChangesChecker... as I'm working on this one right now ;)
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I haven't even written anything yet :-)
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, so what?
<Fujitsu> We can still fanboy it, even if it's contentless :)
<Fujitsu> sistpoty, shouldn't LaunchpadUser's constructor take a username, not an email?
<sistpoty> Fujitsu: not quite sure about LaunchpadUser yet...
* ajmitch goes & adds LaserJock to planet ubuntu
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, hahah/
<Fujitsu> Good idea.
<sistpoty> Fujitsu: I'll need to get an LaunchpadUser by email (since the email is in the changes file), but apart from that LaunchpadUser is just s.th. I wrote in 5 minutes
<Fujitsu> A good point you have there.
<ajmitch> besides, launchpad tends to use email addresses to login with
<sistpoty> Fujitsu: feel free to change it as you seem fit
<ajmitch> it's a bit weird like that
<sistpoty> Fujitsu: that should be covered by launchpadinteraction, so lpuser is pretty much standalone
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, yeah, the username doesn't actually mean anything.
<Fujitsu> Now, I wonder if there is a sane way to get info about a user...
<Fujitsu> Knowing LP, definitely not.
<ajmitch> what info do you need?
<Fujitsu> Well, display name, the username of a user given an email address...
<Fujitsu> There's a machine-parseable (ie. RDF) method to get keys for a given user or group, but that's about it.
<ajmitch> ah right
<ajmitch> so you need to map the other way
<ajmitch> which means probably asking in #launchpad
<Fujitsu> I thought so, yes.
<ajmitch> waiting 6 months for code to land
<Fujitsu> I asked here first, just in case.
<ajmitch> and then getting confused
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, only 6 months?
<ajmitch> that's an optimistic guess
<ajmitch> sometimes it depends on what they have prioritised
<ajmitch> s/sometimes//
<sistpoty> Fujitsu: you can pretty much fill in anything for displayname right now... I didn't even think about what would be best use as displayname in revu2
<Fujitsu> Yeah, it's not critical, but it might be nice.
<sistpoty> hehe
<sistpoty> hm... don't we have a ticket still open for rpc access from tiber? *g*
<Fujitsu> sistpoty, I was wondering if you were looking into that.
<Hobbsee> morning all
<Fujitsu> Hey Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> hi Fujitsu
<sistpoty> Fujitsu: it's not very high on my TODO list  ;)
* Fujitsu angrily kicks holes in Launchpad, then sticks his hand in and grabs the data he needs.
<ajmitch> Hobbsee!!
<Hobbsee> ajmitch!!
<ajmitch> hi
<sistpoty> hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey sistpoty
<sistpoty> ok, I'll need to go to bed now... (and I hope I didn't destroy the archive again, I just pushed from the wrong directory and had to do a merge then, but I think everything is fine now)
<TheMuso> Hey Hobbsee.
<sistpoty> gn8 everyone
<Hobbsee> hi TheMuso
<crimsun> neat, new openssh 4.4p has optional selinux support
<imbrandon> cool
<imbrandon> i've never really understood the whole selinux thing
<ajmitch> crimsun: useful
<ajmitch> imbrandon: it's all fine :)
<imbrandon> heh
* ajmitch might walk home now, early weekend
<imbrandon> hey who is doing the universe uvf's ?
<ajmitch> see ubuntu-motu list
<ajmitch> motu-uvf team on launchpad
<ajmitch> dholbach, slomo & siretart
<imbrandon> k thanks
<ajmitch> back in a bit..
<imbrandon> ajmitch, since your a standin for the next few days can you poke bug 62901 when you make it home
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62901 in mythplugins "Universe UVFe for 0.20" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62901
<imbrandon> and siretart ^^ ( if your not afk )
<ajmitch> afaik slomo isn't away for a few days yet
<imbrandon> ahh ok i must have misread
<imbrandon> the email
<imbrandon> thast the only problem i see , all these guys arent on in the time i'm awake
<imbrandon> hehe
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<imbrandon> didja blog yet ? didja blog yet ? huh huh huh LaserJock , didja blog yet ?
<ajmitch> the celebrity blogger returns
<imbrandon> lol
<LaserJock> oh man
<imbrandon> ;)
<bddebian> LaserJock: Heh, now you know how I feel :-)
<imbrandon> heheh bddebian
<imbrandon> [22:44]  <eean> imbrandon: ping. how do you add a directory to the library search path in ubuntu? :)
<imbrandon> shouldent it just be set in LD_LIB_PATH
<imbrandon> eg export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/path/to/lib:$LD_LIBRARY_PATH
<LaserJock> hmm, anybody know anything about joomla?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, barely.
<Fujitsu> I use Drupal for a couple of things, but not Joomla!.
<TheMuso> drupal rocks
<Fujitsu> TheMuso, yup.
<imbrandon> ajmitch, do you touch banshee most of the time, or someone else ?
<ajmitch> slomo_
<imbrandon> kk
<ajmitch> he's debian maintainer
* imbrandon wonders why daap isnt working in it ( likely not compiled in )
<ajmitch> I just end up sponsoring it
<imbrandon> ahh
<ajmitch> you have banshee-daap?
<imbrandon> yup
<ajmitch> avahi-daemon installed & enabled?
<imbrandon> umm no idea
<imbrandon> i'm not a normal gnome user but i thought i would try it on the lappy
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> check /etc/default/avahi-daemon
<imbrandon> yea its set to 1
<imbrandon> and started via /etc/init.d
<ajmitch> and how do you see that it's not working?
<imbrandon> well i have mt-daap running on the server and my osx see's it , amarok on this computer see's it ( playing now ) but banshee dont
<ajmitch> interesting
<ajmitch> I'd ask slomo :)
<imbrandon> kk, yea not a real biggie, probably something i'm not doing right
<imbrandon> as i'm not real familiar with gnome
<joejaxx> imbrandon: i am building the education edition now :)
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: hey welcome back
<imbrandon> cool
<Fujitsu> Hi joejaxx.
<Fujitsu> Hm, I didn't realise I'd disconnected until you mentioned it...
<Fujitsu> Something's up with my connection.
<imbrandon> heh yea you were off about 3 mintes
<imbrandon> minutes*
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: blame telstra
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, I'm on Optus cable, so it's Optus' infrastructure :P
<joejaxx> imbrandon: tomorrow i am going to get started on the fluxbuntu-* metapackages for upstream to revu
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: blame telstra anyway
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, but of course.
<imbrandon> you know i really love kde and will always* stick with it but gnome is slick in some cases
<imbrandon> specialy on my slower lappy heh
* Fujitsu offloads lots of stuff from the second partition on the main family computer.
<Fujitsu> That partition is about to be Dapperised.
<LaserJock> not edgified?
<ajmitch> people still use dapper?
<Fujitsu> Not yet, it's a production machine.
<Fujitsu> I don't use this machine.
<imbrandon> whats a dapper ?
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, I haven't used it in months :P
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, who knows.
<joejaxx> imbrandon: :P
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, edgy is stableish hehe
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, I know, I'm using it now.
<imbrandon> sides theres a dev living in house, you can fix it if it breaks
<Fujitsu> I 'spose.
<imbrandon> ;)
<Fujitsu> But I haven't got an ISO here.
<Fujitsu> Hm, I am a dev now, yay.
<joejaxx> imbrandon: whould you say it is stable enough to upgrade Fluxbuntu to edgy?
<joejaxx> at this point?
* ajmitch wishes he could be a dev & be cool
<imbrandon> joejaxx, i wouldent have even started it on dapper
* realist ears prick up
<realist> What's fluxbuntu?
<joejaxx> imbrandon: wow ok
<imbrandon> realist, www.fluxbuntu.org
<joejaxx> i will upgrade then
<imbrandon> joejaxx, should just be a matter of where you germinate the seed from
<imbrandon> simple ;)
<joejaxx> imbrandon: i actually customize the livecd's because i do not know how to generate from seeds
<imbrandon> ohh
<imbrandon> ;/
<joejaxx> yeah :\
<LaserJock> hmm, well I don't own a "production machine" except if you mean my pbuilder machine
<LaserJock> and it runs edgy
<joejaxx> imbrandon: so every release of an iso you see i manually did them
<Fujitsu> joejaxx, ouch. You may want to work out how to deal with seeds.
<imbrandon> ouch
<LaserJock> joejaxx: you can combine the approaches
<LaserJock> you don't have to necessarily build the CD from scratch
<LaserJock> use seeds to make a fluxbuntu-meta package that will produce fluxbuntu-desktop and fluxbuntu-live
<joejaxx> LaserJock: i do not know how to generate from seeds
<joejaxx> which is the root of that problem
<imbrandon> joejaxx, good as time as any to learn ;)
<joejaxx> imbrandon: i have been trying to search for information on it
<joejaxx> but to no avail
<Fujitsu> joejaxx, it makes everything a whole lot easier :)
<imbrandon> learning is always good, i dont know /all/ the ins and outs but i do know thats the prefered way ;)
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: i know that is why i WANT to learn how to
<joejaxx> i can do things when i have documentation ;)
<Fujitsu> There's no documentation, AFAIK.
<imbrandon> have you read the germinte man page at all ?
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: yeah which is why i chose the manual way
<Fujitsu> Yeah, I was about to say man germinate
<joejaxx> imbrandon: never knew it existed
<imbrandon> plus you can always steal the kubuntu/ubuntu seeds and modify ;)
<imbrandon> man germinate ;)
<joejaxx> hmm /me goes to man germinate
* joejaxx goes to man germinate
<ajmitch> imbrandon: the mythplugins changelog diff, the UVF team wants upstream changelog diffs as well
<imbrandon> joejaxx, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeedManagement
<imbrandon> ajmitch, doh i probably did the wrong changelog in a hurry
<imbrandon> i'll grab the right one
<ajmitch> also if that's the debian changelog diff, then where're all the other entries?
<imbrandon> not a debian changlog diff the ubuntu one
<ajmitch> attach build log as well
<joejaxx> imbrandon: thanks
<imbrandon> ajmitch,  ok
<ajmitch> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Processes/UVF
* ajmitch should put that in the topic
<Fujitsu> Yeah, probablu.
<Fujitsu> *probablyh.
<Fujitsu> **probably
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:ajmitch] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Universe Repository Maintainers | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyReleaseSchedule | Have you Reviewed a package on REVU yet today?  | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation | [Edgy MoM]  https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html | Add yourself to http://tinyurl.com/fgpgy to upload to REVU | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Processes/UVF
<imbrandon> probably considering the main one we just did a changelog diff
<imbrandon> and that was it
<ajmitch> procedures can be discussed on-list, I can't change what is written now :)
<ajmitch> sigh
<ajmitch> zope-zms was just uploaded to sid
* ajmitch prepares report
<imbrandon> oh i dont mind, doing all this other i just was used to doing main UVF's
<ajmitch> this wiki page is unchanged from dapper
<imbrandon> ( but it is kinda sill y to do more work for universe )
<ajmitch> ask dholbach about it then
<ajmitch> since you'd need the consensus of the UVF team to avoid confusion
<LaserJock> ajmitch: did you ever get a unmet dep list?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: you mean did I ever have time to hook up a public list that we can manage?
<ajmitch> no, ENOTIME :)
<LaserJock> well no, I was just thinking of a list to start with
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> apt-cache -i unmet |grep Package
<Fujitsu> apt-cache -i unmet?
<Fujitsu> Yeah, that.
<ajmitch> nothing fancy is required
<LaserJock> that's it, huh? I thought maybe there was a little more processing
<ajmitch> that's it for a basic list
<ajmitch> more complex unmet deps can be done
* TheMuso has already found an unmet package to look at. :)
<imbrandon> ugh no upstream changelog in the tarbal, /me go's to look at the website
<imbrandon> ajmitch, yea i totaly understand about the consinsus and the ML etc etcetc , i wasent really bitching, just forgot
<ajmitch> imbrandon: it's good to get it clarified though
<imbrandon> ajmitch, but check this out, super simple UVF i filed for main reciently
<imbrandon> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/amarok/+bug/58973
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 58973 in amarok "uvf exception request amarok 1.4.3" [Undecided,Fix released] 
<imbrandon> i'll use that in my email to the list
<imbrandon> really just an upstream changelog diff
<ajmitch> I'm sure that dholbach doesn't love bureaucracy that much, he just wants to make sure that we don't introduce breakage
<imbrandon> yup yup
<imbrandon> anyhow lemme find a changelog since its not in the upstream tarball then i'll compose an email for clairfcation
<imbrandon> +asking for
<LaserJock> I had a decent chat with dholbach this morning
<LaserJock> I'm mostly the bureaucracy lover ;-)
<imbrandon> hahaha
* ajmitch probably annoyed dholbach a bit this morning
<LaserJock> I'll be emailing -motu soonish to set up a MOTU meeting
<ajmitch> great
<imbrandon> cool
<ajmitch> I might even be able to be there
<LaserJock> we need people on track, and on the same page
<Fujitsu> Especially at this time.
<imbrandon> i dident know MOTU's had meetings hhahahah
* ajmitch is on a completely different book
* imbrandon has never seen one
<LaserJock> ajmitch: you are allowed to be
<ajmitch> imbrandon: that's unfortunate
<imbrandon> it is
<ajmitch> we used to have a few of them for each release
<LaserJock> yeah, we used to have them at least once a month
<Fujitsu> There haven't been any for Edgy :(
<imbrandon> once a month wouldent be bad
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I am?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: yep, you and bddebian and crimsun
<LaserJock> supa MOTUs get their own books
<imbrandon> yea but i wasent doing MOTU stuff untill this time last cycle
<imbrandon> ajmitch, ^^
<Fujitsu> 'cause you three are supa-uber-deities.
<ajmitch> LaserJock: oh right, and you have your own library?
<imbrandon> ROFLMAO
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I get a pamphlet
<LaserJock> with pictures
<imbrandon> hahahahahaha
* ajmitch is barely a MOTU anyway
<LaserJock> I'm a comic book motu ;-)
<Fujitsu> Yeah, you're CORE, ajmitch!
* imbrandon gets a tiny print by a star at the bottom of LaserJock's pamplet
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: so is imbrandon
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, true.
* ajmitch is not worthy of the title
<Fujitsu> Yes you is.
<Fujitsu> You've got enough teams on your list :P
<ajmitch> doesn't mean I do any work
<LaserJock> yeah, he's just in it for the emblems
<ajmitch> I collect emblems
* Fujitsu hands some more to ajmitch.
<Fujitsu> I like the AustralianTeam one.
<ajmitch> NZTeam emblem >> AustralianTeam
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> i like the mushroom, i forgot what one thats for
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, main-sponsors.
<ajmitch> u-main-sponsors
<imbrandon> ahh yea
<Fujitsu> We have infinity to thank for that :)
* ajmitch should do an emblem for the zope team
<LaserJock> I personally think motuscience has the best emblem ;-)
* imbrandon has 13 emblems , yay \o/
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, it isn't bad :)
<Fujitsu> I think I've got 6...
<imbrandon> wow i got a motureviewers emblem but i'm not on the team , hrm
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, ubuntu-dev is a member of it.
<imbrandon> oh
<ajmitch> yay
* ajmitch adds another emblem to his list
<Fujitsu> Which?
<ajmitch> pkg-zope
<imbrandon> heh
<Fujitsu> I've tested my Palm m150...
* Fujitsu joins pda-testers.
<Fujitsu> :
<ajmitch> congrats :)
<Fujitsu> *:P
* ajmitch actually does zope stuff
<Fujitsu> :O
<Fujitsu> You admit it!
<Fujitsu> You DO SOMETHING!
<Fujitsu> Yay :)
<imbrandon> my palm VII died reciently
<imbrandon> i wonder if it can run a linux kernel
<imbrandon> hrm
<matid> Morning, everyone
<Fujitsu> Hey matid.
<imbrandon> died == dead batteries
* ajmitch should create ubuntu-xen
<Fujitsu> :(
<imbrandon> ajmitch, if you do add me , i'm always testing it etc etc etc but i dont know much about the internals *yet*
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> imbrandon: for packaging of xen stuff :)
<imbrandon> awe
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> don't try & collect teams :)
* imbrandon thought it was a zul fanboi club ;)
<ajmitch> nah
* ajmitch has helped him with a little bit of packaging
* ajmitch leaves a couple of teams
<imbrandon> i helped him un-pack it onto my machine ;)
<ajmitch> haha
<imbrandon> hehe
<ajmitch> he was using my box for a lot of kernel building
<imbrandon> yea the amd64 stuff
* ajmitch has been rearranging some of the xen-3.0 package recently, and libvirt/virt-manager
<matid> I'm still having problems trying to build a package from CVS. Anyone with more experience in this matter?
<imbrandon> really the only team i dont do anything for that i'm on is trinity
* ajmitch doesn't do anything for ubuntu-dev or core-dev
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> ok back to finding a changelog
<imbrandon> brb
<imbrandon> umm ok
<ajmitch> umm yes?
<imbrandon> anyone else get http://www.mythtv.org/ to come up ?
<imbrandon> all i get is a blank page
<ajmitch> blank
<imbrandon> shiznit
<Fujitsu> Zero sized reply from my proxy.
<ajmitch> you brokes it!
<imbrandon> lol
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, it doesn't like you. Go away, you've scared it.
<TheMuso> hahaha
* Fujitsu pats poor little mythtv.org...
<imbrandon> heh well all i wanted was a changelog
<Fujitsu> Don't let that big nasty imbrandon hurt you!
<imbrandon> :/
<TheMuso> error reading from socket
* ajmitch collects more stylish logos
<TheMuso> Logos shmlogos.
<joejaxx> imbrandon: i arn germinate it just downloads the seed listby dist/arch/etc
<joejaxx> ran*
<ajmitch> TheMuso: but.. but I've got a stylish X & a stylish Z on my emblems list now :)
<TheMuso> big deal
<ajmitch> it is!
<imbrandon> ajmitch, but can you spell ajmitch with your logos
<imbrandon> ;)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: ooh, now that's a challenge
<imbrandon> heh
<TheMuso> If all he logos were braille letters he probably could.
<imbrandon> ;)
* imbrandon watches a few fake teams get created on LP so ajmitch can upload new emblems
<TheMuso> hehe
<ajmitch> I would never do that
<imbrandon> i still say the MOTU one should be a HE-MAN sword
<joejaxx> imbrandon: may i pm?
<ajmitch> it used to be a he-man shield
<joejaxx> ajmitch: lol
<imbrandon> joejaxx, sure but i may not know the anser ;)
<imbrandon> ajmitch, or a mini castle grayskull
<ajmitch> ah, I think ubuntu-dev is meant to be the shielf
<ajmitch> shielf
* ajmitch hits keyboard
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, I always wondered what it was.
<Fujitsu> I want that MOTU fist :(
<Fujitsu> It looks good.
<ajmitch> so join the team\
<Fujitsu> It's restricted.
<ajmitch> then ask an admin
<Fujitsu> Ping ajmitch.
<Fujitsu> :P
* ajmitch mutters
<ajmitch> instead of dropping hints
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, Mr. Admin sir... Can you please add me to motu? :P
<ajmitch> no
<Fujitsu> Hahah.
<Fujitsu> Very good.
<imbrandon> wow everyone is an admin
* Fujitsu runs off now.
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, except the last two to be added.
<nixternal> imbrandon: you watching #ubuntu-offtopic?
<imbrandon> i wasent /me looks
<nixternal> there is a odd nick in there with stupid question
<Fujitsu> Hrm, that's meant to be on my autojoin list...
<imbrandon> hum
<siretart> morning
<imbrandon> heya siretart
<siretart> huhu imbrandon
<Fujitsu> joejaxx, worked out seeds yet?
* Fujitsu explodes.
* Fujitsu sees two brand new science sync requests.
<Fujitsu> Hm, or not.
<Fujitsu> The emails just came through very late.
<ajmitch> of course
<ajmitch> imbrandon: heh, see -ops
<ajmitch> as if he's going to get back in...
<ajmitch> morning siretart :)
<siretart> huhu ajmitch
<siretart> ajmitch: the revu branch is/was broken? my fault?
<ajmitch> siretart: I don't think it was your fault
<ajmitch> more likely mine
<Fujitsu> siretart, it's fixed now.
<siretart> I read something in the backlog, but I didn't get the problem
<siretart> ah, great
<ajmitch> from the initial import
<Fujitsu> And it looks a whole lot better than the REVU1 code :)
<siretart> there were some files missing, indeed
<Fujitsu> Am I to presume that development on REVU2 is going to start again at some point?
<ajmitch> once people have time to hack on it
<siretart> Fujitsu: both sistpoty and I are very busy with work and thesis for uni
* ajmitch is very busy with work
<Fujitsu> siretart, OK.
* Fujitsu isn't busy with anything, but doesn't know a whole lot about how it's written.
<siretart> Fujitsu: if you can, just start hacking, we'll merge your changes
<ajmitch> the spec is there, argued out at montreal last year :)
<siretart> the design is already there. most classes have been started. now its up for implementing and testing them
<Fujitsu> siretart, yeah, I've got a checkout here and have been looking at it.
<siretart> sistpoty's websites about assigning merges was based on the revu2 branch
<Fujitsu> I thought it looked similar.
<ajmitch> siretart: I was going to revive that for unmet deps this weekend, sound sane?
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, I like that idea :)
<siretart> ajmitch: sure!
* ajmitch *finally* has a free weekend
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: i have no idea on how to build the iso from the files germinate creates
<Fujitsu> joejaxx, neither do I, but I'm sure somebody does :)
<joejaxx> oh ok
<Fujitsu> Because we're post-beta, you should be able to ask whoever does it for {X,K}ubuntu.
<Fujitsu> I've forgotten who that is.
<joejaxx> oh ok
<Fujitsu> Sorry, {X,K,}ubuntu.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, {,x,k,ed}ubuntu ;) hahahaha
<Fujitsu> Oops, forgot Edubuntu, true.
<imbrandon> gmorning robitaille ;)
<robitaille> it's 11pm here...so good evening imbrandon
<imbrandon> ahh ;)
<ajmitch> evening robitaille
<robitaille> Hi ajmitch
<superm1> imbrandon, there?
<imbrandon> superm1, yes ?
<superm1> just wanted to check in and see if something went wrong with the myth related packages.  didn't see them pop into the edgy build queue
<imbrandon> they are awating one more uvfe ack
<imbrandon> siretart, did the first one but i need one more to upload
<ajmitch> imbrandon: you managed to fast-talk siretart ?
<imbrandon> hahaha ajmitch i started to and he had already done it
<superm1> ah ok
<superm1> lol
<imbrandon> superm1, if you wanna keep an eye on it bug 62901
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62901 in mythplugins "Universe UVFe for 0.20" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62901
<imbrandon> but i would say in the next few hours i'll have a second ack
* ajmitch probably isn't meant to speak up on those while slomo is still around :)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: our friend is in #ubuntu, btw
<imbrandon> wonderfull /me looks
<ajmitch> if you want to keep an eye on things there :)
<superm1> ah okay. just wanted to make sure everything was kosher with it and all
<superm1> cool
<Fujitsu> Which one, ajmitch?
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: mentholz
<ajmitch> our kiwi friend who's been trolling on & off for weeks
<Fujitsu> Oh, same guy.
<Fujitsu> OK.
<ajmitch> yeah
<Fujitsu> ... he left?
<imbrandon> guess so
<ajmitch> I'm sure he'll be back again sometime
* Fujitsu looks for MarkShuttleworth.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, nah sabdfl reg'd it after than incodent
<Fujitsu> Haha, nice.
* ajmitch needs some dinner soon
* Fujitsu hands some to ajmitch.
<ajmitch> not very helpful..
<superm1> imbrandon, one more thing.  on http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/multiverse/m/mythtv/mythtv_0.20-0.0ubuntu2/changelog, I didn't see a mention of the fix for the gnomescreensaver patch or the i386 fix that I had on revu.  Did those both sneak in there?
<imbrandon> not yet
<imbrandon> well the screensaver did
<imbrandon> but not the i386 thing /yet/
<superm1> well the "fixed" screensaver made it in?
<superm1> one of them did a --query and the other --version
<Fujitsu> THis brings back memories of when I used to help in #ubuntu for several hours a day... :/
<superm1> imbrandon, i'll make a bug with a debdiff for the screensaver and i386 thing then, k?
<imbrandon> sure
<imbrandon> superm1, infact since i'll have to make a UVFe bugreport if you just wanna email me the debdiff thats better
<imbrandon> one less report to close
<superm1> sure
<superm1> i'll make a debdiff really quick then
<imbrandon> just please make it against the latest source in multiverse so it applys clean ;)
<superm1> k
<shawarma> superm1: shit, you're still here?
<shawarma> superm1: You don't sleep either?
<superm1> haha
<superm1> well i have a 5:25 am flight today
<superm1> all nighter for tonite
<superm1> :)
<shawarma> Oh.. That explains.
<shawarma> What's your $TZ ?
<ajmitch> superm1: painful
<superm1> GMT-5
<superm1> (CDT)
<superm1> but normally I shoot for at least a "few" hours of sleep :)
<superm1> imbrandon, imbrandon@kubuntu.org right?
<imbrandon> yup
<superm1> there ya go, sent away
<imbrandon> k thank
<imbrandon> s
<superm1> shawarma, what you still doing up btw, you dont sleep either?
<superm1> yup np
<shawarma> superm1: Oh, I slept already.
<superm1> ah
<shawarma> superm1: I'm in CET. Here it's customary to sleep during the night.
<superm1> haha
<dholbach> good morning
<lionelp> hi dholbach
<imbrandon> heya dholbach
<Fujitsu> Hey dholbach.
<dholbach> hey guys - how's it going?
<ajmitch> good, how are you?
<Fujitsu> OK, dholbach :)
<Fujitsu> Less OMG-I-must-get-this-package-REVUed-now since the freeze :)
<imbrandon> heh no doubt, bug mode now
<dholbach> ajmitch: slowly getting ready for the day - even running this morning didn't help much ;)
<ajmitch> hehe
<imbrandon> ;)
<smurf> Does kino crash on startup for anybody (other than me)?
<ogra> smurf, works here (edgy)
<smurf> ogra: well, I have edgy too, and it doesn't. Investigating.
<rideout> python working fine for everybody? it can't import modules like gtk on my system
<rideout> they are there, but no luck
<pygi> morning all
<smurf> rideout: Works here. Can you pastebin what the problem is?
<rideout> smurf: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/25145/
<rideout> i'm not sure what else to show you
<rideout> that is repeatable with kde-guidence programs, galterntives and other python programs
<rideout> I've tried removing and reinstall and messing around with update-python-modules
<smurf> rideout: I don't know what might be broken on your system, works here; I'd ask doko for help
<rideout> doko: any thoughts?
<imbrandon> ajmitch, are our compiz packages based on those in unsable at all , and have you seen the new beryl ( compiz fork )
<rideout> imbrandon: i am running beryl on edgy as week speek and it is amazing
<rideout> s/week/we/
<imbrandon> rideout, got a url for it ? i'm off to sleep
<imbrandon> ajmitch, just fyi if you dident see it , new compiz in unstable if you care to look at them http://gravityboy.livejournal.com/30382.html
<rideout> imbrandon: svn co svn://metascape.afraid.org/svnroot/beryl
<imbrandon> wow no realeases / website ?
<rideout> not yet
<realist> imbrandon: beryl == quinns?
<rideout> but in the next week or so, yeah it equals quinns
<ajmitch> imbrandon: yes I've seen it, and yes I saw gravity talking about compiz in #d-d
<imbrandon> hum ok, i'll wait at poking at it then ( beryl )
<rideout> they have debian directories in the svn the build fine
<ajmitch> no, our packages predate by a long way those in unstable
<imbrandon> ajmitch, okies cool i know you put some work into ours , just makin sure
<ajmitch> 'build fine' & being release-quality don't always match
<imbrandon> heh i was just thinking that but wasent gonna say it
* ajmitch was thinking of a diplomatic way to put it
<rideout> rideout: true, but they are fully testable, is what i meant
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: that was very good :)
<ajmitch> not nearly as blunt as I can be
<imbrandon> hehehe
<rideout> and designed for edgy and sid, dependacy wise in the debian/control and debian/rules type stuff we wont' have to do much tinkering
<imbrandon> ok welp i'm off to never never land, btw hiya Hobbsee dident see ya sneek in
<Hobbsee> heya
<ajmitch> bye imbrandon
* ajmitch winces as he sees what crack is imported into the beryl svn repository
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: and this is why we have MOTU's :P
<Hobbsee> and this is why unofficial repos are very bad :P
<phanatic> good morning
<ajmitch> hi phanatic
<phanatic> hi ajmitch
<Q-FUNK> anybody here who is a DD?  I could use a sponsor to upload yet another cups-pdf fix... which then needs to be synced to Ubuntu.
* ajmitch hides
<ajmitch> let me update my sid chroot & I'll take a look
<lfittl> morning
<realist> ajmitch: is this the best place to find sponsors?
<ajmitch> realist: for where?
<realist> ubuntu packages, in general
<tseng> !revu
<ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<tseng> this is the process for sponsorship
<ajmitch> hi tseng
<tseng> hi
<tseng> 5:26am
<ajmitch> a bit too early for me
<tseng> me too.
<realist> tseng: thanks
<tseng> np
<mikhail^> who uses/maintains the boost libs for Ubuntu?
<azeem> Ubuntu is group-maintained in principle
<azeem> mikhail^: you can check the Debian/Ubuntu changelog to see who touched it in Ubuntu, though
<mikhail^> has anybody here used boostbook successfully with the packaged boost-build system ?
<mikhail^> hmmm... looks like boost-build is already in dapper...
<mikhail^> I might be asking in the wrong room...
<Q-FUNK> btw, any pygtk guru here? ;)
<Q-FUNK> http://bugs.debian.org/374997
<Q-FUNK> it's probably simple to fix, but I have no idea how.
<Q-FUNK> if we can fix this, it would be yet another peice of ubuntu-originated code contributed to debian.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<pygi> hey bddebian
<AnAnt> bddebian: hide
<AnAnt> anyone here ?
<bddebian> AnAnt: Sorry, what's up?
<AnAnt> bddebian: nah, just thanks, acon & freedict are on the repos now
<AnAnt> oh yes
<AnAnt> anyone heard of gaim-pt (paltalk addon for gaim) ?
<bddebian> AnAnt: Great.  No, haven't heard of it, sorry
<AnAnt> bddebian: I was wondering is it possible to add a binary package to Ubuntu if the source code isn't available
<Hobbsee> in multiverse
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: ok, the problem is that I got NO copyright info about it !
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: except NAMES of author
<AnAnt> s
<Hobbsee> ah
<Hobbsee> emailed them about it?
<AnAnt> no
<AnAnt> there wasn't an email
<AnAnt> but I JUST found an email now
<Hawkwind> The source code to gaim-pt isn't available ?
<Hawkwind> Surely it is, most other distros package it and include it in their distros
<AnAnt> Hawkwind: yup, I sent an email to who I think is the author
<AnAnt> Hawkwind: are you sure ?
<AnAnt> Hawkwind: in what distro did u find it ?
<Hawkwind> AnAnt: I'm positive.  I've built several versions of it in rpm format for Mandriva for my 3rd party repo
<AnAnt> Hawkwind: well, can you get that source code ?
<Hawkwind> AnAnt: It would be in a .src.rpm format
<AnAnt> Hawkwind: well, that can be unpacked , right ?
<Hawkwind> Yep.  I don't have the .src.rpm anymore unfortunately as I've just recently deleted all my old Mandriva repos from my home server :(
<AnAnt> Hawkwind: is it on internet ?
<Hawkwind> You'd have to search rpm.pbone.net as they mirror all of my rpms
<Hawkwind> It might not have been released to the public due to an issue though now that I think about it.  Though I know I've built it
<segfault> :-)
<Hobbsee> hey segfault
<segfault> Hobbsee: sup?
<Hobbsee> segfault: i think i've finally figured out my assignment :).  How did you intend to sponsor uploads, if you werent part of MOTU?
<segfault> Hobbsee: sorry, my bad!
<AnAnt> Hawkwind: do you remember its license ?
<Hobbsee> segfault: not a problem.  i found it amusing that we had three such people :)
<segfault> i just started looking for a mentor now
<Hobbsee> segfault: ahhh :)
<segfault> hope to back there soon :-)
<Hobbsee> yeah :)
<Hobbsee> we had three such people who were saying "yes, i can sponsor people's uploads" without actually having the power to do so.
<segfault> hehe, indeed
<segfault> at least no one contacted me :P
<segfault> brb.
<lastnode> Hobbsee, got a moment?
<Hobbsee> lastnode: yeah, what for?
<AnAnt> Hawkwind: was the package called gaim-pt ?
<AnAnt> Hawkwind: not found
<Hobbsee> lastnode: the quicker the better, if you've just seen -devel
<lastnode> Hobbsee, we're trying to build a http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Upstream .deb for REVU. We have two fronteds, one for Gnome and one for KDE, as well as a -base installation with all the python classes etc. We need to create a setup file and just wondering where to extract the files to? Obv the frontends go in bin, but the rest? Or is this not the place to ask? Sorry if I'm offtopic for the channel.
<lastnode> Hobbsee, shoot! forget it, forget it.
<lastnode> :o
<Hobbsee> hehe
<lastnode> Really sorry, I had already finished typing when I saw.
<Hobbsee> oh that's fine :)
<Hobbsee> uh...i currently dont remember
<Hawkwind> AnAnt: Yeah it was gaim-pt and it used to be available for download freely but now it seems it's not anymore
<Hobbsee> i have ideas, but....
<lastnode> Hobbsee, I used to get blackouts quite a bit when I rowed. Try putting your head between your knees. It's mostly about blood circulation to the brain, I think.
<lastnode> Hobbsee, ideas are fine, ill play around.
<Hobbsee> i'd try running locate kate or equivalent
<Hobbsee> or check p.u.c to see where they install to.
<lastnode> Hobbsee, right, gotcha.
<lastnode> Hobbsee, the thing is, this is python. Is kate a py app?
<Hobbsee> good point.  no
<Hobbsee> i'm not sure sorry
<lastnode> Hobbsee, np, ill hang around here for a while and see if python comes up
<xopher> If I get this error: dpkg-gencontrol: error: must specify package since control info has many - what should I edit?
<AnAnt> Hawkwind: may I ask you something ? since u used to package it before, why didn't you package it for Ubuntu ?
<Hawkwind> AnAnt: I wasn't running Ubuntu back then.  I've only been using Ubuntu for just over 2+ months now
<Hobbsee> lastnode: or ask other MOTUish type people
<AnAnt> Hawkwind: ic
<lastnode> Hobbsee, i will. thanks :-)
* lastnode looks around for MOTUish peoples
<matid> ./configure: line 23116: syntax error near unexpected token `0.35.0'
<matid> ./configure: line 23116: `IT_PROG_INTLTOOL(0.35.0)'
<matid> Does anyone know this error?
<xopher> matid, got intltool installed?
<jdong> argh, universe froze, didn't it
<pygi> jdong: yup
<jdong> pygi: grr, that means I actually have to find a good reason for wanting new WINE then
<matid> xopher: Just a moment ago I added it to the control file. We'll see if it works
* jdong frantically combs bugzilla.winehq.com
<lastnode> hi, im wondering if anyone knows the recommended location to unpack python classes to? obv bins go in one /usr/local/bin, but where do classes and other function modules go?
<pygi> jdong: does it fix a lot of bugs or at least one critical?:)
<jdong> pygi: trying to figure that out right now... so far I've got that it's shiny and new :D
<pygi> jdong: yay, but that won't help much I take it :)
<jdong> pygi: http://www.winehq.com/?announce=latest
<jdong> pygi: it does sound important... :)
* pygi looks
<pygi> sec
<pygi> jdong: yay, lots of bug fixes :)
<jdong> hehe
<pygi> jdong: that should be enough =)
* jdong pbuildering it right now....
<jdong> it works fine with our existing diff.gz, it appears
<pygi> that's even better
<jdong> yeah, no doubt :)
<jdong> pygi: woud I really have to file the full UVF for wine? it'd probably be huge and overly comprehensive...
<pygi> jdong: explanation of full UVF then I'll answer :P
<Toadstool> g'morning everybody
<matid> Toadstool: Morning
<Toadstool> hey matid
<pygi> jdong: you just need changelog mostly I take it
<pygi> and that url you gave me should suffice
<jdong> pygi: the last time I uvf'ed a package it was in main, and I was digging out diffs between svn revisions... it took me nearly half an hour to put it together
<jdong> pygi: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Processes/UVF
<jdong> pygi: arg, and I started my build without a logfile... would my word that it builds in a pbuilder suffice? :D
<pygi> jdong: lol :)
<jdong> heh
<pygi> jdong: build it again with a log file ;)
* jdong heads downstairs to his core duo T2600 :)
<pygi> jdong: sorry, gotta run now
<jdong> k
<pygi> jdong: good luck with getting uvf ;)
<jdong> thanks
* jdong pauses for a moment to consider becoming MOTU....
<jdong> nope, thought just passed
<jdong> :D
<Toadstool> jdong: it would not help for uvf exceptions anyway :p
<jdong> Toadstool: hehe, I know
<Toadstool> got to work now...
* Toadstool &
<Spec> heh
<jdong> alright, which daring soul here wants to try to compile Azureus? :)
<jdong> anyone? anyone?
<jdong> bddebian: take it back... please.... I'm begging you.... :D
<kallewoof> jdong: Will it screw up my current version? :)
<jdong> kallewoof: it's not supposed to?
<jdong> hehe
<jdong> kallewoof: my goal is to compile azureus a la fedora extras, from source via a purely GCJ toolchain
<kallewoof> Reassuring. :)
<bddebian> jdong: Has eclipse 3.2 hit yet?
<jdong> bddebian: nope :-/
<jdong> that's the missing link in the chain
<kallewoof> *nods* I'm willing. I'll back my config files up and such.
<kallewoof> Which version is it, btw?
<jdong> kallewoof: I'm aiming for 2.5.0.0
<kallewoof> Nice :)
<Lathiat> i started look at az and what 2.5 but there seems to be various changes to make it work on free java that seem quite extensive
<Bazzi> yeah eclipse 3.2 is sooooo needed :(
<kallewoof> Speaking of Java, actually, I'm working on trying to get a deb package set up that is based on Java. I've gotten pretty far, but pbuilder whines about sun-java5-jdk not being available. I presume sun-java5-jdk is in multiverse? Any ideas how to fix that?
<Bazzi> kallewoof: you can tell pbuilder to look at multiverse when setting it up
<kallewoof> Bazzi: Oh! I was hoping I could. Is it RTFM time or is there a simple answer? :)
<Bazzi> I don't know the answer by heart, sorry, but it was in the ubuntu packaging guide afaik
<kallewoof> Hm. I've read that (I thought). I'll look around. Thanks for the hint!
<jdong> kallewoof: sudo pbuilder login --save-after-login
<jdong> kallewoof: edit your sources.list, apt-get update
<kallewoof> jdong: I'm 100% new to this all, btw, so I have no idea how to compile your azureus. Oh, thanks! :D
<jdong> kallewoof: then exit your pbuilder before anyone notices ;-)
<Bazzi> sudo pbuilder create --distribution <distro> \
<Bazzi> 	--othermirror "deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu <distro> universe multiverse"
<Bazzi> there :) got it
<kallewoof> *cheers*
<jdong> Bazzi: pffft... my reckless way is so much simpler :D
<jdong> it looks like we just need SWT 3.2 / eclipse 3.2..... I'm gonna pretend that we do and see what else doesn't work
<jdong> what's our policy on using gcj-4.2?
<jdong> nvm
<bddebian> jdong: You're an animal :-)
<jdong> bddebian: when in doubt, newer java?
<jdong> bddebian: hey, when taking stuff from rawhide, you gotta build it like rawhide :D
<bddebian> or re-write in python ;-P
<jdong> AND WHY THE HELL ARE FEDORA PATCHES FAILING
<jdong> grr, wrong order
<zul> because fedora is evil
<Bazzi> jdong: I expect a working SWT/Eclipse 3.2 + Azureus 2.5 in edgy, then :P
<jdong> wow, javac is bombing out with heap overflows :)
<rraphink> #49959
<rraphink> bug #49959
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 49959 in sword "No packages for bindings" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/49959
<rraphink> bug 58059
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 58059 in ichthux "References to Kubuntu in Ubiquity still" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/58059
<lfittl> hmm forgot that, do I need an UVF exception for new debian revisions as well?
<ajmitch> no
<lfittl> good, so filing a sync request is ok if it's no new upstream version? :)
<ajmitch> should be fine
<lfittl> thanks
<givre> Since, the old version is no more in NEW, is there somebody gently enough to push this one  : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3299 ? (if it is possible) Thanks
<joejaxx> hello all :)
<joejaxx> if there was the creation of a special gnome menu for a ubuntu derivative
<joejaxx> whould it fall under *-desktop or *-default-settings
<imbrandon> ajmitch, is the universe freeze just a uvf freeze ? or all upload freeze
<ajmitch> uvf freeze
<imbrandon> ok good
<ajmitch> we still have the freedom to make bug fixes, of course
<ajmitch> which is new ubuntu & debian revisions
<imbrandon> right right, ok thats what i was wondering
<imbrandon> yea -XubuntuN , new N revisions ok
<imbrandon> well i guess tech X or N
<LaserJock> no NEW packages and no new upstream upstream releases
<Kyral> ..could someone with Ops in #ubuntu unban me? GnomeFreak banned me like 2 days ago for offtopic and he forgot to nuke the ban
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> ask in #ubuntu-ops, not here
<imbrandon> Kyral, i got it , one sec
<Kyral> Yanno I would if I knew beforehand that the channel existed :P
<Kyral> (Only reason I got in this time is because I somehow ghosted and got in on the reconnect..didn't hit me that I was still banned until I just now tried to answer someone's question and got the 404)
<imbrandon> give me a sec the ban list is long
<Kyral> np
<imbrandon> looking for your host
<Kyral> it should be my cloak
<Kyral> ..*wants to warn someone about the ext2 driver for Windows..*
<imbrandon> try now
<Kyral> I did :P
<imbrandon> what about the ext2 driver , i have used it many times in the past
<imbrandon> ( for windows )
<Kyral> My friend tried it and he was digging stuff out of lost+found for a week :P
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> ohh jpatrick was on ?
<imbrandon> wow i missed him
<Kyral> Actually I heard the new FUSE based implementation of Captive NTFS is really stable
<imbrandon> dunno i dont have ntfs partitions anymore, but when i did i used the ext2 driver for windows without issues ( as long as you dont enable ext3 support )
<Kyral> yah didja catch that the guy was saying enable ext3? :P
<imbrandon> i take that back i still have one ntfs partition on the amd64 box with vista on it, but i only booted it one or two times to check it out
<Kyral> frankly I just use FAT32 that I plan to share between XP and *Nix *unless its over the Net*
<Kyral> but yah...FUSE is awesome
<seaLne> imbrandon: got a minute? http://pastebin.ca/186340
<imbrandon> seaLne, sure, what would you like me to do about it
<seaLne> is the license just the bit about this was packaged by me etc?
<imbrandon> yea you packaged a source under GPL that wasent actualy gpl it looks like
<seaLne> and i'm a bit unsure about the lack of shared library comment
<imbrandon> and kamoin just wants you to clear it up
<seaLne> so packaging can't be gpl even tho i specified the license for the source code ok afaik?
<imbrandon> do you install all the files like .so .l and .la ?
<imbrandon> no the license in the packing needs to reflect that of the source, not the /packaing//
<seaLne> there didn't seem to be any just a .a
<seaLne> imbrandon: can you explain that again? sorry i still don't fully understand
<imbrandon> seaLne, well if upstream dosnet build a .so then thats the answer to the question as far as the lib, and for the lic issue ....
<seaLne> is it this part he is refering to in copyright:
<seaLne> The Debian packaging is (C) 2006, Kenny Duffus <kenny@duffus.org> and
<seaLne> is licensed under the GPL version 2 or (at your option) any later version,
<seaLne> see /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL.
<imbrandon> if the source is lic openssl then the debian/copyright file needs to say this, the debian/copyright file dosent pretain to the PACKAGEING, it pertains to the source
<seaLne> debian/copyright states the code is BSD
<imbrandon> hold on lemme grab it and see if i can see what he is talking about
<seaLne> i mention ssl advertising thingy
<seaLne> thanks
<ryanakca> who's can un-archive something on REVU?
<imbrandon> oh he is saying the openssl and gpl arent compatable
<seaLne> it is automatically unarchived with a new upload
<imbrandon> ryanakca, you can, just upload again
<imbrandon> #
<imbrandon> You've licensed the Debian packaging of libewf under the GPL, but that's
<imbrandon> #
<imbrandon> incompatible with the OpenSSL licence
<ryanakca> *cough* that's kindof part of the problem... I don't have the sources with me... and the guy who archived it didn't bother reading the copyright file... he said it couldn't be redistributed, and I have the original sources with me, stating that it CAN be redistributed
<imbrandon> ^^ that pretty much sums it up
<seaLne> isn't the ssl/gpl thing debateable?
<seaLne> and dosen't the packagin refer just to debian/ ?
<imbrandon> seaLne, i dont think so but i'm not a license expert, colin is kamoin in #ubuntu-devel you might just ask him
<imbrandon> yea but it cant be if the source isnt compatable with gpl
<imbrandon> as they are combined works
<seaLne> ok
<seaLne> thanks
<seaLne> now if only i could install from beta i'd have a machine to use rather than a live cd
<imbrandon> heh
<seaLne> i feel dirty thinking about licensing something non gpl :)
<seaLne> i can just change it to default BSD license?
<imbrandon> seaLne, to be very honest i dont know, i'm not that much of an expert on them
<imbrandon> someone else in here is welcome to chime in if they know lol
<seaLne> that is what the rest of the code is licenced under and sounds what kamion is suggesting
<seaLne> does rejecting mean code has to go through new again?
<slomo> no it means that it won't get in at all
<seaLne> i mean when it is fixed and reuploaded
<slomo> when the package wasn't in the archive before yes
<seaLne> k
<seaLne> should version stay at 0ubuntu1 and should the changelog mention the fix?
<slomo> probably
<slomo> how will you fix it btw? :)
<seaLne> change the bit at the bottom of copyright that says i license the packaging under BSD rather than GPL
<slomo> what's the license of the software itself?
<seaLne> BSD
<slomo> well, i never ever mentioned the license for the packaging in debian/copyright for my packages :)
<seaLne> bah
<imbrandon> is the openssl a bsd license ? and also about the advertising clause he mentions
<imbrandon> anyhow bbiab
<seaLne> check my debian/copyright
<imbrandon> heh i cant if its not in the archive bro
<seaLne> its on revu
<imbrandon> brb i'ma grab some food
<seaLne> slomo: so you would suggest removing the packaging copyright?
<imbrandon> must be archived, i dont see it on REVU
<seaLne> http://pastebin.ca/186370
<seaLne> imbrandon: ^
<seaLne> a .a is a library file isn't it?
<imbrandon> a static one , he asked about the shared one .so
<seaLne> yep
<seaLne> just confirming what i thought
<imbrandon> looks like that will work but tbh i dont see the need in licenseing the packaging
<seaLne> new maintainer recomends it
<seaLne> should UVFE be filed before or after getting uploaded to NEW?
<imbrandon> before
<seaLne> ok, i'll talk to kamion tommorow to confirm my changes are what he ment
<seaLne> what do you file a UVFE against for something that isn't in the archive?
<slomo> against nothing
<seaLne> ah, just don't select a package?
<slomo> yep :)
<seaLne> :)
<Adri2000> hi all
<Adri2000> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+source/giplet/+builds?build_state=all
<Adri2000> powerpc build failed
<Adri2000> because of a dependency problem
<Adri2000> what should I do ? wait until the problem is fixed and then how to re-run the build ?
<geser> check if the problem is fixed
<imbrandon> once the problem is fixed then ask an archive admin for a give-back
<geser> slomo just reported that a problem with gtk on ppc is fixed
<geser> check if this also fixes your problem
<slomo> Adri2000: wait ;)
<Adri2000> slomo: is there a bug reported about that ?
<slomo> Adri2000: that's no bug, only bad timing
<Adri2000> ok
<xopher> Hi! Where should I look for info on cross-compiling (from an amd64 to i386) with pbuilder?
<LaserJock> xopher: the pbuilder documentation ;-)
<xopher> I couldnt find any reference to cross compiling in the man but Ill keep looking
<Adri2000> slomo: you're sure it's fixed ?
<imbrandon> xopher, look for "setting up a 32bit pbuilder chroot"
<slomo> Adri2000: it's no bug... it will fix itself by waiting ;)
<xopher> imbrandon, will do
<jdong> slomo: if only all bugs worked that way... :D
<Adri2000> slomo: I understand, the question is: is it fixed or not? have the missing packages been uploaded?
<LaserJock> darn it, this 64bit thing is a mess
<slomo> Adri2000: there's nothing to be uploaded... it's only that the libgtk binaries for ppc are not in the archive yet
<imbrandon> LaserJock, hu ?!?
<LaserJock> imbrandon: ubuntu-devel and kilz
<imbrandon> LaserJock, ahh yea i've been reading that
<imbrandon> LaserJock, he is just bull headed and wont listen
<Adri2000> slomo: yes, that was the question, the missing packages are not yet uploaded / are not yet in the archive :)
<LaserJock> imbrandon: as are most people
<LaserJock> imbrandon: except he is decently popular on the forums
<Adri2000> s/missing packages/libgtk binaries/
<slomo> Adri2000: should be with the next publisher run, i.e.... now :)
<Adri2000> ok
<LaserJock> imbrandon: and regardless of whether you like the forums or not, a lot of misinformation can get spread quickly
<imbrandon> LaserJock, and their in lies the real problem, a _loud minority_ screaming about things they dont know aobut instead of helping the situation
<imbrandon> well that actualy is ironic becouse thats /why/ i dont like them
<LaserJock> sure
<imbrandon> i mean the idea of a forum and the tech of it i have no problem with, its the policing of it
<imbrandon> ;)
<LaserJock> maybe I'm all wrong
<imbrandon> allowing things/people like that to happen
<LaserJock> but I thought the responses were kind of off track though
<imbrandon> not for a development list, i thought they were 100% right
<imbrandon> myself
<imbrandon> basicly it boils down to he wants us ( developers ) to provide 32bit applications and create the infrastructure without helping it along any AND bitching about 64bit propitary software not working so the "platform is crippled"
<imbrandon> i use a 64bit system every day , sure it sucks without flash , but i either stepup and help gnash or stop whinging , that dosent make my system unuseable
<imbrandon> ( and very likely flash9 will have 64bit support ) if nothing else becouse windows vista is 64bit
<LaserJock> well, I thought they gave off a little too much "we don't care" vibe
<LaserJock> they *do* care
<imbrandon> as they rightfully should on a devlopemt list where he isnt helping the devlopment of it along
<imbrandon> that same thing should happen on the forums too where developemt is concerned
<imbrandon> thats my problem with the forums
<LaserJock> well, it's not just a development list though, it's often the public face of the devs
<imbrandon> well thats the problem, its really not
<imbrandon> people mistakenly take it for that and should be corrected
<LaserJock> it doesn't really matter what it's supposed to be
<imbrandon> sure it does
<LaserJock> not if it isn't
<LaserJock> that's what I've been saying all week
<LaserJock> anyway
<LaserJock> I can't believe some of what kilz said
<imbrandon> heh let me quote something real fast that sums up my whole standing on the thread
<LaserJock> but I do worry about what outside people think of devs because of it
<imbrandon> Not cutting the users from the developpers, but indeed cutting the
<imbrandon> users list from the developpers list.
<imbrandon> The problem you are complaining about is a user problem, really:
<imbrandon> plugins do not work on your platform. Same as 'my wireless card is not
<TheMuso> I always find myself starting to read these big threads, but stop after a while, since there are so many posts from people, and some people don't cut off emails from the original person when they reply etc. :)
<imbrandon> recognised'. Either you do something wrong, or the system does. First
<imbrandon> case: ask the users list. Second case: file a bug.
<imbrandon> Now, if you want to help improve Ubuntu (solve the bug), you are more
<imbrandon> than welcome to! That part indeed might mean writing a specification,
<imbrandon> and implementing it...
<crimsun> .oO( What, more forum drama? And I missed it? )
<LaserJock> yes, I thought that was the only email needed
<TheMuso> crimsun: I think they are referring to ubuntu-devel list
<LaserJock> but so far there hasn't been a followup to his reply to that thread
<LaserJock> s/thread/email/
<TheMuso> But could be wrong.
<LaserJock> yes, the "Devs don't care about 64-bit users" thread :/
<imbrandon> crimsun, not really a forum user complaining about no 64bit plugins on the -devel list
#ubuntu-motu 2006-09-30
<xopher> imbrandon, only thing I found was to make a new pbuilder image with the option --arch=architecture.. is this correct?
<imbrandon> xopher, looks to be also checkout /DebootstrapChroot
<imbrandon> pretty much does it step by step
<xopher> ok
<LaserJock> anyway, I don't have a 64-bit machine so I can't do much. maybe I should ask him if he'd donate one for development ;-)
<imbrandon> see i would try to help IF he wasent such an ass, if that is the stance of the developers , this his has to be the stance of the users, and i dont see most users acting like this .....
<imbrandon> Thanks for proving that all my points were true. It seems Ubuntu dosnt care
<imbrandon> about new users at all, or at least you dont. The next time someone tells me
<imbrandon> they do Ill remember these posts, and the link to them in the archives.
<imbrandon> They should be a hoot on my blog and on groklaw.
<imbrandon> ^^ that is totaly un called for
<imbrandon> but alas ubuntu wont be the favorite of everyone , to each their own, and i'll keep working on what i work on
* imbrandon is suprised he isnt "angry" at microsoft for not releasing a 64bit OS yet, would make as much since, even more since they are paid to do it
<Hawkwind> Windows has a 64Bit OS out already
<geser> imbrandon: http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/64bit/default.mspx
<LaserJock> I didn't know that was a 64bit OS ;-)
<imbrandon> yea but you cant get that on a new 64bit pc at compusa ;)
<imbrandon> they atill install 32bit windows xp
<siretart> imbrandon: microsoft has in fact 2 64 bit windows ports: one for itanium and one vor em64t/amd64
<geser> I don't know how the situation with 64bit drivers for win xp x64 is now but when I tried the beta versions I had to search them
<geser> I hope it has improved till now
<siretart> imbrandon: the main problem with the ports is, that all drivers need to be rewritten.
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> oh i feel the pain but i dont whinge about it unless i can or plan to help
<imbrandon> no one even things about these things on a ppc ;)
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I was going to mention ppc java on that thread but though better of it
<crimsun> oh man, that "64-bit users" thread on u-d is a great exercise for maildrop, yay
<Fujitsu> Yeah, it is.
<TheMuso> woooo
<LaserJock> maildrop?
<imbrandon> e.g. send to /dev/null
<crimsun> (or procmail or whatever; this shell just happens to run maildrop)
<crimsun> weeping and gnashing of teeth -->  'One of the 64bit users, kuja has started work on a automatrix type of program called simple64.'
<Fujitsu> Nooooooo.
<crimsun> I can't /wait/ til bug reports start hitting LP
<Fujitsu> Can we search out and stamp all over them, please?
<Fujitsu> That's just bad.
<slomo> crimsun: perfect, that will make everybody happy ;)
<Fujitsu> And the moral of the story is:
<Fujitsu> Appease the users or they'll go out and make shoddy scripts that break things and fill your bugtracking system.
<Fujitsu> So we must bend to our users' every whim.
<crimsun> It'd be nice if we could convince a few such users to join our ranks
<Fujitsu> Yeah.
<TheMuso> Agreed.
<Fujitsu> But no, they prefer to write shoddy breaking scripts.
<Fujitsu> Who is this Kilz_ character anyway?
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: he has a couple 64-bit howto's and almost 2,000 posts
<LaserJock> I've said my peace
<Fujitsu> So /that's/ why the forum is insane.
<LaserJock> I hope crimsun appreciates my pony reference
<imbrandon> hahaha yea i just seen that
<imbrandon> classic man, right on the money
<imbrandon> he dident pick up on my no flash for ppc either
<imbrandon> and ppc has been arround alot longer than x86_64
<imbrandon> oh well enough of that, time to get the 38 amarok bugs below 10 if i can today ( thats my self made goal )
<imbrandon> anyone here still have a dapper install ?
<LaserJock> but make sure nothing works on amd64
<LaserJock> ;-)
<imbrandon> LaserJock, hahah
<minghua> imbrandon: does pre-RC dapper count? ;-)
<imbrandon> heh , is it upto date ?
<minghua> imbrandon: no, haven't touched it for 4 months
<LaserJock> my home machines are both dapper
<LaserJock> work is edgy
<imbrandon> ahh okie no biggie, i just wanted someone to test the amarok backport, can you do that when you get home LaserJock ?
<LaserJock> probably
<imbrandon> it installed and ran fine in a chroot but i want a real world test
<imbrandon> cool thanks
<LaserJock> I'll let you know when I'm home etc/
<LaserJock> etc.
<imbrandon> kk
<imbrandon> its just a matter of enabling dapper-backports and installing amarok
<imbrandon> ( or upgrading it )\
<LaserJock> it's in dapper-backports already?
<imbrandon> yea
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> will do
<imbrandon> kk thanks
<ajmitch> LaserJock!
<chillywilly> hi
<ajmitch> hello chillywilly
<imbrandon> heya ajmitch and chillywilly
<imbrandon> foooooood time
<LaserJock> ajmitch: what?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: just saying hello
<ajmitch> and wading through u-devel threads
<ajmitch> I want a pony as well
<LaserJock> ajmitch: hello
<LaserJock> ;-)
<ajmitch> that 64-bit thread is just annoying
<ajmitch> more specifically, one demanding person on it
* ajmitch wonders why he hasn't been slapped down with the CoC
* minghua only read replies from the developers in that thread
<ajmitch> minghua: a wise decision
<imbrandon> minghua, thats ok you still get the whole picture asd he replys with the same thing over and over
<minghua> amazingly so many developers replied to him though
<ajmitch> Sadly I'm beginning to see that the whole warm fuzzy feeling of the
<ajmitch> community tends to disappear once off the forums."
<ajmitch> yes, forums are so warm & fuzzy
<imbrandon> lol
<ajmitch> and then he rants on about how ubuntu is lies, all lies, etc ;)
<LaserJock> yep, it is
<LaserJock> and we like it that way ;-)
<ajmitch> on this side of the fence, we're the mean & nasty community ;)
<LaserJock> I try to be mean to new people as often as possible
<LaserJock> so that I can control the Universe and rule the world!
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, yeah, very very fuzzy, those forums.
<LaserJock> mwuahahahaha
* imbrandon waits for someone to make a howto about installing the 32bit version from a 64bit rpm using alien
<LaserJock> checkinstall baby
<ajmitch> imbrandon: get out
<imbrandon> hahahaha
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Out! Now! You are forever shamed.
<TheMuso> autopackage
* Fujitsu puts in a request to the CC to have imbrandon banished from Ubuntu forever. That's wrong wrong wrong.
<imbrandon> it would fit right along with the oo.o one
<ajmitch> or installing xen from RPMs :)
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> hahah yea
<ajmitch> Fujitsu knows who I'm talking about :)
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, that was good.
<LaserJock> quick versioning question
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, we had a guy in -au wanting to install Xen using the RPMs from xensource.
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> nice
<LaserJock> is <version>ubuntuX ok for a native package
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, yes.
<ajmitch> LaserJock: sort of
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, how else would it be done?
<imbrandon> umm if its native why not just <version>
<imbrandon> if its not -0ubuntu1
<LaserJock> because what happens if Debian and Ubuntu aren't the same
<ajmitch> if it's definitely for ubuntu, then drop the ubuntu suffix
<LaserJock> it's Ubuntu but will probably go in Debian at some point
<ajmitch> if it's for debian also, the ubuntu version ends up higher
<ajmitch> LaserJock: should be ok then
<LaserJock> without the -
<LaserJock> 0.3ubuntu1 is what I'm looking at
<minghua> if it's not in debian yet, why not drop the ubuntuX
<imbrandon> i thought ifd it wasent in debian yet ( but could be ) it needed -0ubuntu1
<LaserJock> imbrandon: well, native packages are stupid that way ;-)
<minghua> I think it's wrong to add -anything to native package
<LaserJock> ah -0 would imply a non-native package to me
<Fujitsu> Native package is versioning is generally a little strange/stuffed. Like when somebody does an NMU and adds -0.1.
<imbrandon> LaserJock, -0 means not in debian
<LaserJock> imbrandon: it means a little more then that though
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, not in Debian, but also non-native.
<LaserJock> anywho, if 0.3ubuntu1 is ok I'll do that as I want to show it's an Ubuntu package and native
<minghua> but then the developer's reference seems to say NMU for native package should add -0.1, so whatever
<LaserJock> yeah, but what do they know? ;-)
<imbrandon> haha i can see it now 0.3ubuntu1-0.1debian
<LaserJock> haha
<LaserJock> maybe it could be backported
<crimsun> if it's a Ubuntu package and native, why add "ubuntu1"?
<LaserJock> 0.3ubuntu1-0.1debian~stable
<LaserJock> crimsun: because it might also end up in Debian
<LaserJock> with little modification
<LaserJock> but probably some
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, so don't add ubuntu1.
<minghua> LaserJock: then just bump the version number and upload 0.4 to debian
<ajmitch> we've already had issues with native packages getting autosynced
<LaserJock> they could use 0.4 or something
<ajmitch> eg initramfs-tools
<LaserJock> because of ubuntu1 ?
<ajmitch> because it didn't have ubuntuX
<ajmitch> and so got autosynced & overwritten
<LaserJock> oh
<LaserJock> good point actually
<minghua> but the package LaserJock is talking about isn't in Debian yet, is it, LaserJock?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> but if it does and we have just 0.3
<ajmitch> initramfs-tools wasn't initially in debian either, iirc
<LaserJock> it'll get auto synced
<minghua> I see ajmitch's point now
<minghua> so maybe 0.3ubuntu1 is better (if just ugly)
<LaserJock> mostly I just hate native packages, or at least that the versioning doesn't seem to be consistent a lot of the time
* ajmitch files urgent UVF exception 
<minghua> .oO( native packages by definition are not supposed to exist in two distros )
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> which is hard for Ubuntu
<ajmitch> minghua: theory & reality don't always see eye-to-eye
<LaserJock> since it's almost one distro
<LaserJock> but not exactly
<crimsun> you should checkinstall it for great forum justice.
* crimsun goes to wash out his brain
<ajmitch> troll
<LaserJock> me goes off to slit his wrists
<minghua> ajmitch: true, true.  but who cares about reality anyway? ;-)
<ajmitch> crap
<LaserJock> hmm
<minghua> just kidding.  that's what we sometimes say in a theoretical physics research group :-)
<ajmitch> heh
* ajmitch watches #d-d with interest
<Fujitsu> Hahah, yeah.
<imbrandon> oftc ?
<chillywilly> why did they move to oftc?
<Fujitsu> 'cause it's better.
<ajmitch> imbrandon: yes
* Fujitsu ducks.
<chillywilly> nah
<chillywilly> freenode is still the happening place to be :)
<imbrandon> well tbh they really dident move, they just opened another channel
<imbrandon> still more users on freenode
<ajmitch> all the devel action is on oftc
<imbrandon> true, but thats one reason i see not to move ubuntu ( as in its really not a move but more of a split )
<minghua> it IS a move, by pointing irc.debian.org to OFTC instead of freenode
<imbrandon> minghua, yea but look at the user count in #debian on both networks
<chillywilly> freenode rocks, no need to move :)
<minghua> imbrandon: that's unfortunate, but hopefully people can move eventually
<minghua> most channels moved completely though
<imbrandon> yup it would be unfortunate for me to as 99% of the upstream i deal with is on freenode to stay ( kde* )
<ajmitch> why would it be unfortunate?
<imbrandon> if ubuntu moved
<ajmitch> most clients can handle being on more than one network
<imbrandon> yea but it sucks
<imbrandon> heh
* ajmitch doesn't notice problems with it 
* chillywilly notices that levin.freenode.net revolves
<imbrandon> i'm on 4 networks atm , and hate every minute of it
<ajmitch> & i'm usually on 3 or more networks
* chillywilly is on 3
<chillywilly> er, 4
* ajmitch can't remember how many 
<crimsun> imbrandon: why so?
<ajmitch> freenode, oftc, gimpnet, undernet are the 4 I know I'm connected to right now
<imbrandon> freenode stratics oftc and bitlbee ( if that can be considered a network )
* Fujitsu informs imbrandon of /quit
<imbrandon> crimsun, mostly just a pain to me not to all be in one place
<chillywilly> freenode, our work ircd that I maintain, a freind's ircd, and irc.mozilla.org
<ajmitch> users, always complaining about something...
<imbrandon> hahaha true /me == user of irc
<imbrandon> wow ipv6 addr ?
<imbrandon> does freenode have a ipv6 server ?
<StevenK> Freenode has multiple
<imbrandon> nice , i never knew that
<imbrandon> i thought about trying to get a ipv6 network going here at home just to learn it
<ajmitch> has had it for years
* ajmitch goes through the aarnet tunnel broker 
<imbrandon> but i dont think my cheap router does ipv6
<Fujitsu> My cheap router does.
<Fujitsu> Of course, it's a Dapper server.
<imbrandon> heh
<StevenK> My cheap router is a Sarge Pentium II.
<Fujitsu> It was a Sarge PII 500 or something, now it's a Dapper PIII 800.
<imbrandon> mine is a netgear wireless something, i guess i could make the fileserver a router
<tseng> StevenK++
<tseng> but i have a linksys
<tseng> unhacked now even
<tseng> no patience for all the dicking around
<imbrandon> hehe
<ajmitch> StevenK: I have the same, iirc
<ajmitch> whay change what works?
* StevenK is pondering reinstalling his file server as Dapper.
<ajmitch> if I cared enough I'd probably upgrade as well
<StevenK> My file server is also my print server, running CUPS 1.1, which is quite useless for my Dapper desktop and laptop.
<imbrandon> hum ok i got an issue ( please dont make me search the forums LOL ) i have a huge osx partition ( hfs+ ) i want to oblitorate and have my reiserfs linux partion absorb the free space WITHOUT reinstalling linux, is this possible ?
<StevenK> Yes.
<imbrandon> hints ?
<StevenK> imbrandon: Reinstall using ext3
* StevenK smirks
<StevenK> imbrandon: gparted?
<StevenK> How to shrink and grow reiser filesystems, I have no idea.
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> i might just reinstall beta, i really dident want to though
<imbrandon> but stupid me put osx on a 25gig partition and linux ( with swap ) on a 5 gig or a 30 gig drive
<minghua> can you grow a non-LVM partition?
<imbrandon> s/or/on
<imbrandon> minghua, ext3 you can
<imbrandon> i just wasent sure about reiser
<minghua> imbrandon: that's growing a filesystem, isn't it?
<imbrandon> right but its trickery with ext2
<minghua> I've done growing a LVM-partition and then growing the ext3 fs on it
<imbrandon> you delete the partition table and recreate it larger but taking up the same spot
<minghua> but have no idea about non-LVM partitions
<minghua> oh okay
<imbrandon> its trickery but works
<imbrandon> for ext3 that is
<minghua> I think I've see FAT32 partitions worked that way
<minghua> I wouldn't dare to do that without a proper backup though
<StevenK> imbrandon: Or use gparted which has a resize command.
<imbrandon> StevenK, even for reiser ? or are you talking about ext3
<imbrandon> hum i guess i could just format it resier and move /home onto it
<imbrandon> that would save a reinstall
<imbrandon> have a 5 gig / and 25gig /home ;)
<imbrandon> or 5g / 10g /var and 15g /home , hum
<imbrandon> might be interesting trying to move /var though
<StevenK> imbrandon: That's what single-user mode is for.
<imbrandon> ;)
<TheMuso> ReiserFS can be resized using a utility from the reiserfsprogs package I think.
<TheMuso> It can even be resized while mounted.
<TheMuso> From what a quick google brought up for me at least.
<imbrandon> wow nice TheMuso i'll take another look at google
<TheMuso> imbrandon: man resize_reiserfs
<TheMuso> hmmm
<TheMuso> according to the manpage, the filesystem has to be unmounted
<TheMuso> IMO that would be safer.
<imbrandon> yea
<TheMuso> XFS and JFS have to be resized while mounted however.
<imbrandon> i have allt he inportant info backed up anyhow
<imbrandon> but still
<TheMuso> yeah
* TheMuso uses JFS
<Fujitsu> TheMuso, I use resize_resierfs very regularly when mounted.
<imbrandon> ahh the man page says the same way as doing it with ext3
<TheMuso> imbrandon, Fujitsu, what made you guys choose reiserfs?
<Fujitsu> TheMuso, I've just always liked it, dunno why...
<imbrandon> faster on my box than ext3
<Fujitsu> Well, it supports online resizing for one thing.
<imbrandon>  you wish to enlarge a filesystem, you must make sure
<imbrandon>        you expand the underlying device first. This can be done using cfdisk(8) for partitions, by deleting the partition and recreat
<imbrandon>        ing it with a larger size (assuming there is free space after the partition in question).  Make sure you re-create it with  the
<imbrandon>        same  starting  disk cylinder as before!  Otherwise, the resize operation will certainly not work, and you may lose your entire
<imbrandon>        filesystem.
<imbrandon> wont help, the partition is at the end of the drive ;(
<TheMuso> I tried reiserfs a few years ago, and was badly burnt by it
<TheMuso> imbrandon: You will have to re-create the filesystem then.
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, you can also always copy the entire filesystem off to another system, delete the partitions, recreate a big one, copy the filesystem back, and run grub.
<TheMuso> SO used ext3 until I found out what other filesystems were ok.
<TheMuso> Then I was told about jFS>
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, you mean ybin ;)
<Fujitsu> Well, yes.
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> hum i'm thinking a format / reinstall will do it some good anyhow , gives me an excuse to test a clean beta install
<Fujitsu> Yeah, that's true.
<Fujitsu> And it's not bad to do that on a *nix, because once you've got /home you've really got most of the important stuff.
<TheMuso> Yeah.
<imbrandon> my /home is normaly on a nfs share , but i keep a local account on the lappy just in case i'm on the road
<TheMuso> I reckon if Windows allowed one to mount Documents and Settings on another partition, things would be a lot better.
<imbrandon> TheMuso, well you /can/ its just a pita
<TheMuso> imbrandon: I know that, but it really should be possible from the word go.
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> but who would reinstall windows over and over ? </sarcastic>
<TheMuso> hehe
* TheMuso goes to see if a different netboot image will allow him to get debian re-installed on his alpha box.
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, who would install Windows full stop?
<imbrandon> heh
<TheMuso> I love learning about non-x86 hardware.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso, heehee.
<TheMuso> This alpha is a little old however.
<Fujitsu> HAHAH.
<Fujitsu> mdz's response to the warm-fuzzy-forums thin.
<Fujitsu> *thing
<TheMuso> Ah y eah. I saw that.
<TheMuso> Damn. Still panics in the same spot.
<imbrandon> forgive me father for i have sin'd http://www.imbrandon.com/misc/vista.jpg ( had to try it on the amd64 over the last weekend )
<TheMuso> heh
<imbrandon> its kinda funny how there is no start button though, just a logo ( kinda like ummmm the K logo anyone !?! )
<imbrandon> and the windeco is very kwin-style-crystal-ish
<bddebian> Egads it looks more like MockOS all the time
<tseng> har har bddebian
<imbrandon> bddebian, heh playing with it its more like kde all the time actualy ( in the way it works )
<bddebian> Heya tseng and imbrandon :-)
<tseng> hi
<imbrandon> heya
<TheMuso> imbrandon: THing about Vista is you probably had to go to much greater lengths to obtain it.
<Marsmensch> moin, is this  the right channel to suggest a package for the reps?
<TheMuso> Marsmensch: Unfortunately, we have just past universe freeze, so unless there is a good reason why the package should be included, it will have to wait till edgy+1.
<minghua> so in summary, right channel, but unfortunate timing
<Marsmensch> TheMuso: Yeah, i understand. I found the site https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates and will put it on. So doesn't matter at all :)
<minghua> Hmm, I wonder if any other MOTU read that page regularly?  I sure don't
<TheMuso> minghua: Nope I don't.
<Marsmensch> hmmmm, so you have any ideas where to put it on?
<minghua> Marsmensch: sorry, that's probably the best place if you don't want to work on it yourself
<minghua> Marsmensch: I am just saying putting it there doesn't increase much its chance to get into ubuntu
<Marsmensch> hmmm, ok, ... i'm to unskilled to work on it myself
<Marsmensch> so i can say it here any maybe and you make a notice about it?
<lritter> hey there. i can't find anything related to changes in the font rendering past 6.06, but i know it happened
<lritter> i can't seem to use bci hinting anymore, no matter how much i try
<lritter> i have pointed this out in the bugtracker but nobody seems to be interested
<lritter> i really wonder whats going on. it works with the live cd, for example.
<minghua> Marsmensch: sorry, that page is the place we make notice for such requests
<minghua> Marce: not much more I can do
<Marce> uh, hilight :>
<minghua> Marsmensch: ^^^
<minghua> Marce: sorry
<Marce> minghua: no problem :)
<Marsmensch> ok a few minutes ago i read in the benq mobile developer newsletter, that finaly the mobile phone mager for linux available is (LMPM). whis this software you can connect your siemens benq mobile phone to the pc and synchronise it. the software is available for ubuntu 5.10, suse 10 and madriva
<Fujitsu> Is it open source?
<Marsmensch> more detailed information about itnhttp://www.benq-siemens.com/cds/frontdoor/0,2241,hq_en_0_130289_0_xcp%253A140777_xcs%253A130989,00.html
<Marsmensch> no idea, why?
<Marsmensch> has it to be for adding to reps?
<Fujitsu> Marsmensch, it must be open source, and it's not.
<Marsmensch> ohhh ok :-(
<Marsmensch> thx for help
<jdong> Marsmensch: well, it doesn't HAVE to be open source
<jdong> Marsmensch: it has to have a license that would allow us to put it in the repos
<jdong> Marsmensch: and it has to be of high enough of "quality" package-wise that it doesn't threaten the existing system
<lritter> so
<lritter> nobody has an idea?
<Fujitsu> lritter, this isn't the right channel...
<lritter> what is the right channel then
<Marsmensch> thank you jdong, makes sense :)
<lritter> Fujitsu: what is the right channel then
<crimsun> lritter: you should ask in #ubuntu-devel on Monday. Most of the developers are off on the weekend.
<lritter> i see
<lritter> good point
<lritter> thank you
<minghua> lritter: what is bci hinting?
<lritter> byte code interpreted hinting
<lritter> some fonts contain information on how to correct pixels on lower resolutions
<lritter> such as the ms core fonts
<minghua> and other people are right, let's move to #ubuntu-devel
<jdong> lritter: isn't that what dpkg-reconfigure fontconfig-config asks?
<lritter> jdong: funny enough, it doesn't ask me anything.
<lritter> jdong: it just runs without any interactive dialogue.
<jdong> lritter: sudo dpkg-reconfigure -plow fontconfig-config
<jdong> lritter: it asks me just fine....
<lritter> plow :)
<lritter> okay, i guess its that.
<lritter> let me see.
<minghua> but IIRC the default debconf choice is bytecode hinting
<lritter> ooh :)
<lritter> okay, i turned it on, still no change
<lritter> anyway, i'm moving this to ubuntu-devel
<LaserJock> wow, 1444 packages to download
<LaserJock> this may take a little while
<ajmitch> that's quite a few
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, whatcha doing? Upgrading?
<bddebian> fool ;-P
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> good news is I'm downloading at 130k/s
<Fujitsu> Who has control over the Fridge.
<Fujitsu> *?
<Fujitsu> `If you are currently on Ubuntu 6.10 (dapper drake) and want to help test the new Edgy Beta'
<Fujitsu> `upgrade from Ubuntu 6.10/Dapper to Edgy Beta'
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: #fridge-devel
<Fujitsu> Ha, ha.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, its #ubuntu-fridge or the fridge-devel@l.u.c , but i have editor powers , whats up ?
<Fujitsu> The current first post is full of mistake.
<Fujitsu> *mistakes.
<minghua> LaserJock: do we have a #ubutnu-science?
<Fujitsu> minghua, we have #ubuntu-science.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, ok fixed a few mistakes i noticed
<imbrandon> refresh and see if you see any more please
* imbrandon notes that went through two people prior to us before publishing hehe
<crimsun> heh, do I need to proof it first or something?
<imbrandon> hehe we were just noting on the edgy beta story on the fridge
<imbrandon> if you want to once over it
<imbrandon> Fujitsu found a few mistakes after it was published by 2 fridge editors , hey we're all human right hehe
<imbrandon> mostly was s/6.10/6.06/ "Dapper" stuff
<Toadstool> heya \o/
<imbrandon> heya Toadstool
* Toadstool has just bought a laptop and is downloading an edgy iso
<crimsun> wealthy fellow in our MOTU midst
<Toadstool> :)
<theCore> I got a question
<Toadstool> theCore: don't ask to ask, just ask ;)
<theCore> if Debian has a package that Ubuntu doesn't, will it gets sync?
<imbrandon> eventualy yes
<crimsun> at this stage, not unless it's absolutely critical.
<imbrandon> ( ( eventualy == edgy+1 at this point )
<crimsun> we're past universe freeze; see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2006-September/000828.html
<theCore> I'm looking forward edgy+1
<theCore> crimsun, I know
<theCore> I just try to prepare myself, so I can be part of Edgy+1 development
<crimsun> the next autosync round is in the [couple]  week[s]  post-release
<theCore> so, it's all done automatically?
<imbrandon> yea probably arround begining of decemberish
<crimsun> I imagine it'll resume earlier than December
<imbrandon> theCore, in the begning of the cycle yes ( for packages that dont have ubuntu changes )
<crimsun> it normally picks back up in the week (or second week) after the most current stable release
<theCore> ok, thanks for the infos
<theCore> so, if I want to package something, I need to find a piece of software that isn't packaged?
<imbrandon> yea , to learn you can make patches for existing bugs and look at the current packaging
<imbrandon> that way bugs are squished AND you learn packing ;)
<theCore> imbrandon, I already know pretty well how to package, I often do packages for myself, but I never gotten into the real thing
<cmpalmer> howdy. I was thinking of packaging http://handbrake.m0k.org/
<cmpalmer> I'm looking at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/intro-chap.html
<cmpalmer> anything else I should be doing?
<crimsun> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New
<crimsun> have you signed my key?
<cmpalmer> dunno. have to check
<theCore> any examples of a good python package?
<crimsun> mutagen is my ready example
<theCore> crimsun, thanks
<crimsun> further, quodlibet uses mutagen if you need an additional example
<LaserJock> hmm
<Toadstool> theCore: mmpython :)
<LaserJock> theCore: and when your done with them write it up for the packaging guide
<Toadstool> hehe
<theCore> LaserJock, your a second ahead of me ;)
<theCore> I plan to write a Python packaging section for the guide, that why I was asking
<imbrandon> oh wow, mdz's replys are classic , really well done
<LaserJock> mhm
<Toadstool> imbrandon: where? u-devel@ ?
<imbrandon> yea
<Toadstool> haha, I hadn't seen LaserJock's pony mail :p
<LaserJock> I thought it added a little levity to the situation
<Toadstool> :)
<imbrandon> wow, i just got a call from my dad, seems my uncle just got home from basic training this week and instead of a "Welcome Home Scott" banner in the living room from his wife, he got a "I want a divorce + empty house" homecomming
<cmpalmer> ?!
<imbrandon> bummer
<cmpalmer> ow
<Toadstool> uhuh...
<LaserJock> imbrandon: bummer
<LaserJock> wahoo, over 1/2 way there
<LaserJock> hmm, anybody know if packaging firefox extentions is straightfoward?
<ajmitch> imbrandon: painful
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I doubt it
<imbrandon> probably not LaserJock
<imbrandon> as they have to be run to be "installed"
<LaserJock> hmm
<imbrandon> LaserJock, makin a 32bit + 64bit package ?
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> haha
<imbrandon> ;)
<LaserJock> no, a guy wants to package an extention for his first try at packaging
<ajmitch> crazy
<LaserJock> apparently he made a .deb, not sure how, but I have an idea
<imbrandon> hum extensions arent even installed that way on windows, you run the xpm from a webserver iirc
<minghua> honestly I can't see the advantage of packaging a firefox extension
<minghua> (at least on personal computers)
<minghua> it's easy and straight-forward to use firefox's extension manager
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> that can be said for a lot of things we package too
<LaserJock> you can also get automatic updates in Firefox
<Toadstool> gah... my $%@! bcm43xx wireless chipset is not recognized by the kernel on the desktop cd
<LaserJock> imbrandon: ping
<imbrandon> pong
<LaserJock> what do you want me to test in amarok?
<imbrandon> just that it installes and plays music ;)
<LaserJock> oh
<LaserJock> that's not hard
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> ( 1.4.3 from backports )
<LaserJock> installing now
<imbrandon> so you might have to enable backports and dist-upgrade if you havent already
<imbrandon> kk
<imbrandon> like i said worked fine in my chroot but i just wanted someone to test it realworld
<LaserJock> Hobbsee!
<Hobbsee> LaserJock!
<LaserJock> I didn't see you come in
<imbrandon> imbra....! errr
* Hobbsee snuck in
<imbrandon> hehe
<LaserJock> imbrandon: seems fine to me
<imbrandon> great , thanks
<LaserJock> np
<rmjb> hey room
<rmjb> need a little advice
<imbrandon> heya rmjb
<rmjb> I want to put together and submit a locale for en_TT (Trinidad and Tobago)
<rmjb> I emailed Martin Pitt since he's the maintainter of the language packs for Ubuntu
<imbrandon> it will cost you $0.02 for advice
<imbrandon> just teasin
<imbrandon> ok ....
<rmjb> oh... I was just working out the exchange rate
<imbrandon> haha
<LaserJock> you should call it en_GS
<LaserJock> mixture of GB and US
<minghua> lol
<rmjb> anyhow, I emailed Denis Barbier since he's working on locales for Debian
<rmjb> and I emailed the debinan glibc maintainers since that's where locales are maintained
<rmjb> but no response... (first email was a week ago)
<rmjb> should I submit something to a bugzilla somewhere or something?
<imbrandon> a week isnt long for debian ( nor ubuntu atm since beta craze )
<rmjb> yeah, en_GS might not be that bad
<rmjb> okay, busy times call for long waits then...
<minghua> rmjb: no, debian glibc maintainer is the wrong person to email to, as ubuntu doesn't use the locale data in glibc
<rmjb> ahh... what's the upstream project to look at then, is it indicated in launchpad?
<minghua> rmjb: Debian wise, Denis Barbier is the right person to write to
<minghua> rmjb: belocs-something
<rmjb> belocs-locales-bin, belocs-locales-data
<imbrandon> LaserJock, can we make a en_mUS ( Midwest US )
<rmjb> yeah, Denis' email is listed as the contact for those
<minghua> rmjb: yes, but that's the binary package name
<LaserJock> imbrandon: uhhh, I , ummm, sure thing
<rmjb> locales*, locales-all* then... I'm getting these package names from http://www.debian.org/devel/people
<ajmitch> imbrandon: I'd hate to think what it'd be like
<rmjb> imbrandon: what'll be different from en_US? the accent?
<imbrandon> rmjb, sure ;)
<imbrandon> soda vs cola vs coke , etc etc etc ;)
<rmjb> ah... I see
<ajmitch> very important distinctions
<rmjb> okay, looks like I dreamt emailing Barbier... no sent item in my email...
<LaserJock> imbrandon: it's "pop" darn it. soda is what you bakewith and coke is what people snort :-)
<Fujitsu> Hahah.
* minghua got confused by "pop" this summer when he went to minneapolis
<ajmitch> and 'pop' is what sad people listen to
<imbrandon> hahah
<minghua> damn americans can never agree on what they call coca-cola
<rmjb> pop... that's my dad!
<imbrandon> soda
<imbrandon> nother en_mUS would be to s/GNU\/Linux/Linux/ in all documentation
<imbrandon> ;)
* imbrandon wonders if there is a en_13 ( 1337 5p33k )
<imbrandon> 5p34k
* imbrandon go's back to amarok bugs before he is dis-owned 2 times in one day
<minghua> imbrandon: why midwest people won't say GNU/Linux?
<imbrandon> becouse ..... idealogicly ( sic ) {me,us} hate the whole GNU/ must be infront of anything that has gnu tools on it
<LaserJock> too many letter too ;-)
<Hobbsee> oh my head hurts now, at readign that 64 bit thread...
<LaserJock> hah
<LaserJock> a
* Hobbsee thought LaserJock's reply was very good
* Hobbsee just doestn get why the guy doesnt realise "no, there is no magic wand waving.  you actually have to put in the effort, or get another interested party to, or you dont get the feature you want"
<imbrandon> heh if i had an annonmous email account i would start a thread "How Long do PPC users have to wait?"
<imbrandon> no flash or wine or java for us either ;) and its been arround alot longer than x86_64
<ajmitch> "how long do m68k users have to wait?"
<imbrandon> bwhahaha
<LaserJock> do it!
<minghua> ajmitch: you are faster than I :-)
<Hobbsee> hahaha
<LaserJock> they don't even have "offical arch" status in Ubuntu
<minghua> I actually used a sparc machine this summer, and is grateful debian has a port for it
<imbrandon> no GNU/^WSolaris for you ?
<imbrandon> ;)
<minghua> I used gentoo for a month and eventually switched when I found the Chinese input method pacakge is masked off
<LaserJock> I'm sadly a i386 only guy
<LaserJock> I even tried buying a mac
<LaserJock> but it turned out to be the first week they shipped intels
<minghua> and still got an intel one?
<imbrandon> hahah
<minghua> yeah, poor LaserJock
<ajmitch> sadly I've only got i386 & amd64
<ajmitch> and I can't watch youtube crap on my desktop!!
<ajmitch> what will I do?
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> start a thread on the -devel list
<rmjb> LaserJock: you in US, UK?
<pianoboy3333> I'm trying to build the svn of libgphoto2 and I was able to do a checkinstall and only install libgphoto2-port0, but I can't seem to be able to then install libgphoto2 without the port package also. Help? You can checkout the source with `svn co https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/gphoto/trunk/libgphoto2`
<imbrandon> rmjb, biggest little city in the world
<imbrandon> gah checkinstall
<rmjb> I saw a US site that had factory refurbished g3 imacs for $65 if you still want a mac
<Hawkwind> rmjb: Where ?
<imbrandon> rmjb, where , i could use a few for a build farm
<ajmitch> pianoboy3333: why on earth are you using checkinstall anyway?
<Hawkwind> I'd love to have one myself
<Hobbsee> mind your language.
<minghua> yeah, I would like to have one too
<Hawkwind> Ewwwww @ check install.  I wouldn't tell my worst enemy to use that app :P
<rmjb> pianoboy3333: I got that to compile and install fine without checkinstall... there's make target for uninstall so you shouldn't need checkinstall
<pianoboy3333> ajmitch: because.... I don't feel like making a deb at 11:45 here, and I don't want to use make install
<ajmitch> so instead you ask about the use of checkinstall in a channel full of people who start convulsing when they hear of it? :)
<pianoboy3333> Hawkwind: ummm well.... if he's your worst enemy then you wouldn't help him....
<pianoboy3333> ajmitch: no
<pianoboy3333> ajmitch: it wouldn't matter if I ran make install
<Hawkwind> pianoboy3333: Heh, true that I suppose.  Which means he wouldn't use checkinstall either hopefully :)
<imbrandon> pianoboy3333, it dosent matter we dont like/use/support checkinstall
<pianoboy3333> ajmitch: I'm asking how to build libgphoto2 without the port part
<ajmitch> why?
<ajmitch> have you asked upstream?
<pianoboy3333> I have asked in #gphoto and everyone is idle basically.... so I'll stop bothering you guys and ask again tommorow...
* ajmitch sighs
<imbrandon> still never said why he needs a new version
<ajmitch> asking about build system of random package foo isn't always going to get an answer
<Hawkwind> Patient fellow he was
<minghua> no wonder he didn't get a reply in #gphoto
<ajmitch> and to think that I had recently been digging through that code & may have been able to help
<minghua> he probably stayed 5 minutes there altogether
<imbrandon> ajmitch, but i know how to install foo " ./configure ; make ; checkinstall "
<imbrandon> ;)
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o ajmitch]  by ChanServ
* imbrandon was kicked off #ubuntu-motu by ajmitch (ajmitch)
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o ajmitch]  by ajmitch
<imbrandon> :'(
<ajmitch> you should know better
<minghua> oh that was brutal
<LaserJock> rmjb: US
<rmjb> okay guys, here's the refurbished iMacs... cheap! http://www.geeks.com/products_sc.asp?Cat=810
<rmjb> took a while to find it back... might be handy for ppc maintainers
* ajmitch could probably pick some old ones up from uni
<minghua> rmjb: thanks
<imbrandon> i would give people access to my ibook but its not on the net all the time, nor setup for it security wise
<rmjb> delicious is actually a great search tool for links... better than google for something like this
<imbrandon> but hopefully i will get more soonish
<LaserJock> Apple PowerMac G3 400MHz 128MB 10GB CD-ROM w/OS 9 - B  $99
<imbrandon> personaly i would grab one of the 333 and shove ram into it
<imbrandon> for 49$
<LaserJock> I could throw Ubuntu server +pbuilder on one of those
<minghua> LaserJock: make sure you check what kind of RAM it uses first
<minghua> oh sorry, imbrandon ^^^
<imbrandon> minghua, yea i know
<imbrandon> ;)
<minghua> although 128MB is probably not good for pbuilder either
<LaserJock> what kind of RAM do they use?
* imbrandon stuck 512more in his ibook
<TheMuso> Standard SD RAM
<imbrandon> sdram
<imbrandon> 133 most of the time
<LaserJock> well, I'm using a 1.3GHz P4 with 256MB of rambus
<LaserJock> so it wouldn't be a total step down
<imbrandon> ouch rambus ?
<LaserJock> ;-)
* TheMuso has got 512MB of RAM in his PowerMac G3.
<imbrandon> i have 640 total in my ibook
<imbrandon> 128 + 512
<TheMuso> I used to have 768MB in the G3, but needed some of it elsewhere. :)
<imbrandon> hehe
<minghua> PC100 SDRAM according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Macintosh_G3_%28Blue_%26_White%29
<imbrandon> LaserJock, do they even make rambus anymore ?
<imbrandon> minghua, yea , thats pretty common
<LaserJock> imbrandon: not sure, but I know if you can find it it's really pricey
<LaserJock> I would take my home machine in to work put it is my printer server
<rmjb> articles about upgrades for those macs: http://www.lowendmac.com/imacs/tray-up.html and http://www.lowendmac.com/imacs/slot-up.html
<LaserJock> if I had time I could check out the old alpha that is sitting in the lab next to mine ;-)
<imbrandon> ;)
<LaserJock> but better yet, that lab also has a 5 node amd64 cluster
<imbrandon> those 50$ imacs woudl actualy make nice "give-aways" once loaded with the soon to be released eft ;)
<TheMuso> Maybe with xubuntu.
<TheMuso> I have found GNOME a little slow on my G3 300.
<TheMuso> Unless you are referring to G4 Imacs.
<imbrandon> for free most wont complain about a little slow
<LaserJock> I always wonder about the CRT going out on those
<TheMuso> Yeah.
<TheMuso> imbrandon: YOu have a point.
* TheMuso would love to update this G3 one day.
<LaserJock> imbrandon: of course they will complain
<imbrandon> i wanan get a g5 before they arent ppc anymore
* LaserJock points to ubuntu-devel
<imbrandon> LaserJock, hahah true, it wont run flash
<imbrandon> ;)
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Wait till they are only available second hand. A lot cheaper very likely.
<LaserJock> imbrandon: we've got 1 g4 and 1 g5 imac I believe in our lab
<TheMuso> I'd love a G5 powermac myself. :)
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> another theoretical group in my department is almost entirely macs
<imbrandon> TheMuso, yea thats how i got my ibook, its a 800mhz ppc 640mb ram 30gig hdd i picked up for trade on a 1800+amd semprion system
<minghua> it seems G5 imac only existed a very short period
<LaserJock> they built a G5 powermac cluster
<imbrandon> minghua, they still make powermac g5's just not "for the end user"
<imbrandon> thats the last of the ppc's
<TheMuso> imbrandon: lucky you.
<TheMuso> My G3 runs OS X quite well.
<imbrandon> yea its a g3 800 , runs osx 10.4 and kubuntu well
<imbrandon> just takes FOREVER to compile
<minghua> imbrandon: I was talking about iMac, the one-piece desktop machine
<minghua> imbrandon: are still making those, too?
<TheMuso> Heh if you think yours takes ages, you should see my G3 crawling along. :)
<imbrandon> minghua, the ibook's ? no they were replaced by mac books
<LaserJock> imbrandon: please read his sentence
<minghua> imbrandon: no, these ones: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imac#iMac_G5
<LaserJock> imbrandon: minghua> it seems G5 imac only existed a very short period
<imbrandon> ahh imac g5's yea i dont think so
<imbrandon> g5's are only in the powermacs iirc
<imbrandon>  /now/
<LaserJock> yeah, I think our lab got all their iMacs in the same year
<imbrandon> all the desktop and laptop computers are intel now
<LaserJock> and got g4 g5 and intell
<LaserJock> and all for the same price
<imbrandon> only the "server grade" are still g5's but wont be for long
<minghua> according to wikipedia iMac G5 was shipped for 16 months
<minghua> so not as short as I thought
<LaserJock> hmm, yeah
<LaserJock> I wonder if we got 2 g5's
<LaserJock> they are different anyway, the shape is different
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> hrm a rosetta type interface would be nice for ppc linux
<imbrandon> only reverse
<imbrandon> allowing intel code to run on the ppc
<imbrandon> s/code/binarys
<minghua> well, there is crossoffice for mac, so it's possible
<TheMuso> imbrandon: It is code, just machine code
<LaserJock> Apple PowerMac G4 733MHz 256MB 60GB CDRW/DVD w/OS 9 $319.99
<imbrandon> minghua, cxoffice for mac is only for intell macs
<imbrandon> ( /me works on cxoffice )
<TheMuso> The problem with macs on Ebay here in Australia is that people overprice them.
<minghua> imbrandon: oh, sorry, I thought they ported wine to ppc
* minghua goes check crossoffice site
<imbrandon> no they ported wine to osx ( intel only )
<imbrandon> quote : "Run popular Windows software on Intel OS X Macs."
<imbrandon> right on the front page
<imbrandon> ;)
<rmjb> why would you need to run intel binaries on ppc? this will be for pacakges that aren't available as source??
<imbrandon> exactly
<minghua> rmjb: flash, acrobat reader, etc.
<LaserJock> I'm just waiting for the kqemu stuff to hit OS X
<rmjb> it would have to be savvy to cross link native and none native binaries where needed... eg. native firefox and non-native flash
<imbrandon> bwhaha my developer login still works for codeweavers http://federation.imbrandon.com/ss106.png
<rmjb> personally, I'm dissapointed in acrobat7 for linux, I find the builtin document viewer in ubuntu much better
* imbrandon hasent done any codeweavers work since v4
<LaserJock> hmm, so it take me as long to install the packages as to download them in this dist-upgrade to edgy
<imbrandon> rmjb, yea it is that savvy , rosetta let things like itunes and quicktime for ppc osx run on the intel boxes before the software was ported ( rosetta is built into osx )
<imbrandon> to let old ppc binarys run seemless on the intels
<rmjb> LaserJock: you didn't use gksu "update-manager -c -d" ? if so why? (it's what I'm running now)
<LaserJock> rmjb: unfortunately evince doesn't handle a lot of the form filing I have to do
<LaserJock> rmjb: I'm doing update-manager, I just call it a dist-upgrade
<imbrandon> rmjb, one reason might be if he is not on ubuntu ( e.g. kubuntu xubuntu )
<minghua> and I always had problem with evince and Chinese (altough quite a lot of Chinese users claim otherwise)
<minghua> it's probably only a encoding map issue
<LaserJock> minghua: ah yeah, that hit the doc team quite a bit
<TheMuso> You gotta feel sorry for jdub being stuffed around by airlines... again.
<ajmitch> oh?
<rmjb> so what's needed is a attesor (rosetta backwards) for ppc linux... sounds like a good project
<TheMuso> ajmitch: Check planet Ubuntu
<imbrandon> ajmitch, yea he's headed to ohio for linux fest
<LaserJock> I still haven't figured out what he's doing
<ajmitch> poor jdub
<minghua> LaserJock: only evince?  you guys builds Chinese pdf fine?
<minghua> s/builds/build/
* minghua hates grammar
<imbrandon> [23:31]  <imbrandon> oh wow jdub is only like 3 hours from me , wish i had me license back, i would shoot over and see if could help ( or atleaste meet him F2F )
<imbrandon> [23:32]  <imbrandon> oh wow wrong channell too
<TheMuso> heh
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> LaserJock, he was spose to give the keynote at linuxfest
<LaserJock> minghua: yeah, mdke tried for a long time to get them to work in evince
<LaserJock> minghua: just building the Chinese pdfs took a while
<LaserJock> I current problem is Russian
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I was talking in general
<imbrandon> professional gnome hacker ?
<imbrandon> dunno
<minghua> LaserJock: hmm, I should look at how ubuntu doc team builds Chinese pdf then
<imbrandon> anyone know who andrew ash is ?
<minghua> debian installer still disable Chinese pdf for the manual now
<LaserJock> minghua: fop
<rmjb> well, it's been cool liming here with you guys
<rmjb> catch you all later
<rmjb> G'night
<minghua> LaserJock: sorry, fop?
<minghua> what is fop?
<LaserJock> we use fop to create the pdfs
<LaserJock> java xml to pdf
<LaserJock> thingy
<LaserJock> ;-)
<minghua> so fop is a software, hmm...
* minghua never heard of it
<LaserJock> minghua: http://xmlgraphics.apache.org/fop/
<minghua> LaserJock: yeah, google found it too, thanks anyway
<minghua> eh, fop was removed from debian ten days ago...
<LaserJock> it was in Debian?
<LaserJock> I'm sort of suprised
<LaserJock> must have been in non-free
<minghua> s/debian/debian testing/, sorry
<minghua> LaserJock: it's in contrib
<LaserJock> right
<minghua> be back later
<LaserJock> hmm, I sure hope my laptop doesn't melt before it's done upgrading
<LaserJock> hmm, people must be out on a friday night.. weird
* minghua is here
<minghua> but I can't cool your laptop down anyway :-)
<LaserJock> well, it's not as bad as when I had to put an icepack on it to boot
<LaserJock> but it's pretty toasty
<Plug> LaserJock: it's Saturday night! :P
<LaserJock> hmm
<imbrandon> heh
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: how hot is it?
<LaserJock> hot
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> that doesnt tell me much
<LaserJock> anytime I do a lot of IO and CPU stuff
<ajmitch> Plug: you'll be interested to know that I'm hearing bug reports for your package as well
<LaserJock> it gets hot
* Toadstool is going to bomb the local BroadCom building...
* imbrandon is listening to "Saturday Night's Alright" by Nickelback [Amarok] 
<ajmitch> Toadstool: black helicopters are on their way to your house now
<Toadstool> :)
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> Toadstool: remember what country you're in
<imbrandon> i was just thinking that, not a good thing to say in the USA
<Toadstool> too late anyway
<minghua> anybody with an up-to-date edgy give me a check for libxft2 version?  launchpad says its still 2.1.8.2
<Toadstool> cya in a couple of years guys
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> Toadstool: have fun in cuba
<Lathiat> says 2.1.10-1ubuntu1 here
<Toadstool> ajmitch: heh
<minghua> Lathiat: thanks
<Lathiat> i havent updated for a bit, tho
<imbrandon> brandon@horatio:~$ apt-cache madison libxft2
<imbrandon>    libxft2 | 2.1.10-1ubuntu1 | http://192.168.1.5 edgy/main Packages
<imbrandon>    libxft2 | 2.1.10-1ubuntu1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com edgy/main Packages
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch>     libxft | 2.1.8.2-0ubuntu2 | http://apt-proxy edgy/universe Sources
<ajmitch> you may have seen that one
<minghua> I see
<lastnode> imbrandon, we have a working qt frontend now. :-)
<imbrandon> cool
<imbrandon> qt or kde ?
<imbrandon> ( just curious )
<lastnode> imbrandon, er qt
<imbrandon> cool
<lastnode> is there a kde specific gui framework?
<lastnode> 0.o
<imbrandon> qt apps can be built or kde apps ( that in turn use qt ) can be built
<lastnode> anyway, it also submits to paste.ubuntu-nl.org now, and is easily extensible via pastebin 'modules'
<minghua> so libxft2 is built by source package xft now
<imbrandon> lastnode, cool
<ajmitch> minghua: yes
<lastnode> imbrandon, we're having some trouble packaging .py though. have a few questions so please ping when you're taking a breather. it wont take 2 mins.
<imbrandon> heh , well this is the channell for py packing ;)
<imbrandon> fire away i guess
<lastnode> the deb python policy doesnt really say where it prefers modules and classes to be unpacked. i asked in -devel last night and mdz said definitely _not_ /usr/local
<lastnode> (we understand that the bins should go in /usr/bin/)
<LaserJock> lastnode: I think it will depend on if you use python-central or python-support
<lastnode> LaserJock, ive been reading that bit in the deb py policy.  i guess ill just try and see
<crimsun> http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy  if you need additional hints
<LaserJock> lastnode: have you seen the Debian wiki page for py policy?
<LaserJock> heh
<lastnode> LaserJock, ive been reading - http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/python-policy/
<lastnode> much thanks crimsun
<Lathiat> ah awesome i just did a dist-upgrade
<Lathiat> i think it restarted kdm
<Lathiat> my X just went bang
<Lathiat> doh
<lastnode> imbrandon, would you like us to try and write a kde-frontend as well? or is a qt front ok?
<imbrandon> nah qt is fine
<imbrandon> i was just curious
<imbrandon> sides my pykde skills arent great ;)
<imbrandon> ( working on them though ;P )
<lastnode> also, what is MOTU's policy on pre-stable release code. that's a no no for REVU right?
<lastnode> imbrandon, actually a KDE dev volunteered, took our threading classes and wrote it in a jiffy
* lastnode is a little worried about the deps
<imbrandon> lastnode, i think by the time the universe repos open back up you will be ready to upload, when it gets closer to that time ( decemberish ) we'll take a closer look
<lastnode> oh right, universe is closed now until edgy+1 ?
<imbrandon> yea for NEW packages like yours
<lastnode> that last minute rush of MOTU hunters was because it was closing, rght?
<imbrandon> dont let that stop you from pushing ahead though
<lastnode> imbrandon, a fedora guy came in #upstream that day, and said he'd like to make a .rpm for FC6-Extras
<imbrandon> yup , we're in full bug mode now ( leaste I am )
<lastnode> so he co the code and said he'd get back to me. nothing since then
* ajmitch isn't in bug mode yet
<imbrandon> cool , go for it, i dont see any readon only to limit it to ubuntu
<imbrandon> reason*
* lastnode finds rpms icky, and will leave the packing to the dev himself :-)
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> awe its justa spec file ;)
<imbrandon> hehe
* imbrandon can do rpms in his sleep, but i hate them
* ajmitch has forgotten 95% of what he knew about building rpms
<LaserJock> me too
<LaserJock> since I knew 0
<imbrandon> true i havent made one in almost a year heh
<ajmitch> it's been about 5 years for me
<imbrandon> but i bet it wouldent take long to rember
<ajmitch> in that time I learnt debian packaging :)
<imbrandon> exactly heh
<imbrandon> actualy i can do suse rpm's from what i'm told they are a tad diffrent from the redhat ones
<imbrandon> never really looked though
<imbrandon> they might only be diffrent in the way sarge debs are diffrent from ubuntu's not sure, never payed that much attn
<Toadstool> checkinstall can do RPMs, no?
* Toadstool run
<Toadstool> +s
<imbrandon> hahaha
* ajmitch looks for a /ban
<Toadstool> :p
<imbrandon> we should make ubotu insta /kick on *checkinstall*
<ajmitch> I agree!
<imbrandon> s/we/seveas
<ajmitch> where is seveas?
<Toadstool> haha
<imbrandon> btw its alien not checkinstall for the rpms ;)
<Toadstool> right... I removed the "Vista ready" sticker from my new laptop and now there's glue all around the keyboard :/
<imbrandon> alcahol
<Toadstool> I think it's time for me to go to bed
<imbrandon> or put a ubuntu badge there
<Toadstool> and drink the alcohol! yay!
<givre> Fujitsu: Hi, if you have some time to look at it and if it's possible, could you push http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3299, 20060920-0ubuntu1 was accepted yesterday and so is no more in NEW. That's could be great :). Thanks
<Toadstool> ok... g'night everybody
<imbrandon> gnight Toadstool
<imbrandon> hum i wonder if gnash is useable
<imbrandon> hum ajmitch you ever used a cross compiler with pbuilder ?
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> and I don't ever plan to
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: stevenk does
<Hobbsee> but he's not here
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, cool
<ajmitch> StevenK is on crack then :)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> yeah, well
<imbrandon> i'm thinking its a mix with dpkg-cross etc etc etc
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: in what way does he do cross-compiling?
<Hobbsee> didnt we know that?  :P
<imbrandon> yea whats he cross compiling ? hehe
<ajmitch> imbrandon: possibly
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: er, well, assuming i'm getting your meaning, he can build i386 debs on his amd64 with a i386 chroot
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: ah, that's quite different than cross-compiling
<ajmitch> I do that frequently
<imbrandon> nah thats not real cross compile
<imbrandon> yea me too
<imbrandon> i mean building debs for ppc or arm , on a i386
* ajmitch goes & kills his flatmate to get the music turned down
<imbrandon> arm == ipod , and ppc , well that would just rock
<ajmitch> imbrandon: apparantly it's possible
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: ahhh
<imbrandon> yea i see bits and pieces on the web about it
<ajmitch> eg http://www.emdebian.org/slind/README
<imbrandon> but not a full "howto" so i might be stuck figuring it out
<imbrandon> nice, i think this might be the way to go on the ppc bulding as my ibook is SLOW building but ok to test
<imbrandon> and it would just rock to compile apps for my ipod
<imbrandon> dpkg and all
<imbrandon> ;)
<ajmitch> or you could do qemu :)
<ajmitch> there was a recent post on planet debian about setting up an arm install in qemu
<imbrandon> qemu ppc dont like 2.6.X kernels
<imbrandon> ahh yea arm
<imbrandon> nice , i'll have to dig that up
<imbrandon> i already have a 2.4 linux install running on the ipod, it would just be a matter of getting dpkg installed and chrooting in etc
<imbrandon> to add more apps and make it "idebian" or "ibuntu"
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> and at 4 gigs i shouldent have to worry about space
<imbrandon> the truely portable debian system ;)
<ajmitch> I'll have to try & dig it up, it's fallen off the front of planet
<imbrandon> cool that would rock, i'm gonna see if i can dig up some more dpkg-cross info too
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> google wins
<Lathiat> awesome firefox crashes all of X everytime i scroll down nearly to the bottom of my works horde webmail
<ajmitch> http://www.aurel32.net/info/debian_arm_qemu.php
<imbrandon> ajmitch, sweet
<Lathiat> to make life even better all gdb says is "Program exited with code 01"
<Lathiat> so im assumign that its makign X die
<Lathiat> and it sjust being killed after
<ajmitch> Lathiat: haha, excellent
<ajmitch> probably X driver bugs :)
<Lathiat> admittedly i am running nvidia
* Lathiat tries without
<ajmitch> signing the code of conduct on launchpad used to kill X for nvidia users
<Lathiat> haha
<ajmitch> since it was all on one line
<ajmitch> triggered some bug
<imbrandon> wow nice
<Lathiat> if this works i'll cry
<Lathiat> oh woo
<Lathiat> it does
<Lathiat> hrm 'all on one line' you say
<Lathiat> i have some emails with a reallllyy long subject
<Lathiat> that im guessing are beign cut off by the tbale possible
<Lathiat> yep
<Lathiat> i bet thats what it is
<ajmitch> lucky you
<Lathiat> yep
<Lathiat> the subjet is 10,000 characeters long
<Lathiat> incidentally
<imbrandon> ajmitch, wow thanks for that link, thats not exactly what i intended to begin with but it will get me started
<Lathiat> this e-mail which is 5M
<Lathiat> and is the reuslt of request tracker looping emails for a few hours
<Lathiat> make sclamav eat 70% of 2G of ram scanning it
<Lathiat> and when it tries to scan 5 at once your machine stops working
<Lathiat> and took our works mail cluster this morning
<imbrandon> wow
<imbrandon> looks like it bit your X too ;)
<Lathiat> indeed
<Lathiat> i nee dto keep this email
<Lathiat> good for killing nvidia and clamav users
<imbrandon> heh
* Lathiat tucks the e-mail away
<ajmitch> yay for OOo!
<ajmitch> just watching it kill X on my box
<imbrandon> heh night for X to die or what
<ajmitch> well, it's just pegging it at 100% CPU usage
<ajmitch> damn
<ajmitch> killing OOo didn't fix it
* ajmitch will have to kill X as well, what a shame
<ajmitch> nice, killing X frees about 1.3GB of RAM
<ajmitch> firefox & all :)
<minghua> oh, the OOo in ubuntu goes 100% CPU too?
<ajmitch> minghua: it caused X to do so, at least
<minghua> ajmitch: the newest one in Debian does, too
<ajmitch> excellent :)
* minghua suspect it's due to -O2 compiling switch (a wild guess though)
<ajmitch> hey raphink
<ajmitch> the apps I care about (firefox, galeon) save their session, so X dying isn't a big deal :)
<raphink> hi ajmitch :)
<ajmitch> & the 6 or so emacs windows that were open :)
<Fujitsu> givre, I'm looking at it now.
<givr1> Fujitsu: Thanks :)
<Fujitsu> givr1: Shouldn't that `linux' in the description of ntfs-3g be `Linux'?
<Fujitsu> Not really important, but I like nitpicking :)
<givr1> Fujitsu: right, i'll change that :)
<Fujitsu> I'll change it, don't worry :)
<givr1> Fujitsu: ok, thanks
<Fujitsu> Uploaded, givr1.
<givr1> Fujitsu: thanks for that ;)
<Fujitsu> No problem.
<imbrandon> whats the command to tell what package a file came from ?
<minghua> dpkg -S
<minghua> if it's installed
<imbrandon> or better yet can i tell whats in the contents of a package thats NOT installed with apt ?
<minghua> if not, look at apt-file package
<minghua> dpkg -S handles that if it's installed by dpkg
<ajmitch> dpkg-deb -c package.deb
<ajmitch> to look inside a package you have
<minghua> ah, it seems I misunderstood imbrandon
<imbrandon> ajmitch, yea but what about if you dont have the deb ( its installed on the system and the cache is clean )
<imbrandon> i knew about dpkg-deb -c
<ajmitch> as minghua said, dpkg -S to identify where a file is from
<ajmitch> or dpkg -L to list files in a package
<ajmitch> there's not really much more than that
<imbrandon> ahh dpkg -L is what i wanted
<imbrandon> thanks
<pirast> hi, i have gto a question... i would like to have bug 57360 solved for edgy so i'd have to make a uvf.. but on the link it says that I'd have to upload it. But I do not have upload permissions to universe. what shall i do?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 57360 in video-dvdrip "[debian-multimedia]  Sync dvdrip" [Low,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57360
<LaserJock> \o/
<LaserJock> pirast: get a MOTU to review it
<pirast> LaserJock, to review what? the uvf or the package?
<minghua> LaserJock: it's a sync from debian-multimedia
<minghua> I don't know how that works
<pirast> mhm
<LaserJock> pirast: have a MOTU Media person look at it
<pirast> LaserJock: mhm okay..
<Fujitsu> I'm glad somebody filed a new upstream version request for mp[cd] , otherwise I wouldn't have discovered them. They're really really nice.
<Fujitsu> It's actually useful to be a MOTU sometimes :P
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> I'm thinking perhaps I found out about them in a similar fashion
<Fujitsu> I did the new version a couple of days back, not thinking much of it...
<Fujitsu> Then this morning I realised that it actually looked quite useful.
<imbrandon> mt-daap is too ;)
<Fujitsu> Yeah, that looks good.
<Fujitsu> I think I'll write DAAP client support for mpd... Hm..
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: That makes sense actually.
<Fujitsu> The DAAP client support?
<TheMuso> Yeah
<Fujitsu> Exactly why I plan on writing it :)
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Do you know a lot of C?
* TheMuso assumes that mpd is in C.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso, I've been programming in C/C++ for several years, so yes.
<TheMuso> Ah right.
<ajmitch> Lathiat: btw, seen bug 62872? :)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62872 in avahi "Avahi not started" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62872
<ajmitch> initially filed on upstart, like every second bug is these days ;)
<imbrandon> TARGET=powerpc-linux-gnu fakeroot debian/rules binary-cross > ../binutils.build 2>&1 || echo 'Build error'
<imbrandon> gah
<LaserJock> hmm, I really really do need to stop looking at the forums
<imbrandon> lol LaserJock
<LaserJock> darn that new Science subforum
<imbrandon> gah ok i got to be missing someonth
<imbrandon> something
<imbrandon> ajmitch / LaserJock wanna check the sanity of this howto i'm following , its failing becosue it cant find ../configure blah blah blah
<imbrandon> i'm sure its something i'm overlooking
<LaserJock> "Ubuntu doesn't stick to the DFSG so it may choose to use both the logo and name from Firefox."
<LaserJock> learning something new everyday ;-)
<imbrandon> we do use the ff logo ( unless its a boo boo in the last update
<imbrandon> )
<LaserJock> imbrandon: URL?
<imbrandon> http://psas.pdx.edu/DebianCrossCompilerHowto
<LaserJock> imbrandon: but I don't think it's because we don't care about the DFSG
<imbrandon> i'm at Build binutils
<imbrandon> LaserJock, true
<imbrandon> and fyi i s/gcc-4.0/gcc-4.1
<imbrandon> but i'm not even to that part yet
<imbrandon> so it shouldent be effecting me
<imbrandon> here is the exact error
<imbrandon> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/25276/
<imbrandon> from the build log
<imbrandon> looks like a well done how-to i'm just missing something i hope
<imbrandon> becosue this would rock
<LaserJock> is there a ./configure in the source dir?
<imbrandon> no a tar
<imbrandon> brandon@horatio:~/devel/cross-toolchain/binutils-2.17$ ls -l
<imbrandon> total 13495
<imbrandon> drwxr-xr-x 15 brandon brandon     1240 2006-09-30 03:01 binutils-2.17
<imbrandon> -rw-r--r--  1 brandon brandon 13795751 2006-06-23 15:10 binutils-2.17.tar.bz2
<imbrandon> drwxr-xr-x  2 brandon brandon       48 2006-09-30 03:16 builddir-powerpc-linux-gnu
<imbrandon> drwxr-xr-x  4 brandon brandon      864 2006-09-30 03:01 debian
<imbrandon> -rw-r--r--  1 brandon brandon     1487 2006-09-30 03:02 patch-stamp
<imbrandon> -rw-r--r--  1 brandon brandon        0 2006-09-30 03:01 unpack-stamp
<LaserJock> oh, that's wierd
<tseng> imbrandon: you stole my username
<LaserJock> haha
<imbrandon> ahh yea i guess there is in the subdir
<imbrandon> brandon@horatio:~/devel/cross-toolchain/binutils-2.17$ ls -l binutils-2.17/configure
<tseng> also, it is 4:30 am wtf are you people doing
<imbrandon> -rwxrwxrwx 1 brandon brandon 236820 2006-04-06 16:49 binutils-2.17/configure
<LaserJock> that's why I just user mantha or laserjock
* ajmitch has alwats used ajmitch
<LaserJock> yeah, things are messed up there
<LaserJock> ajmitch: that's why I got laserjock.us ;-)
<imbrandon> huh ?
* imbrandon missed something 
<LaserJock> but I'm going to have to lock it down or you fanboys are going to use up all my bandwidtch
<LaserJock> *width
<ajmitch> that reminds me
* ajmitch goes & fanboys
<imbrandon> gah dont tell me that hehe
<LaserJock> imbrandon: does binutils-2.17/ have a configure
<ajmitch> LaserJock: added your blog to planet yet?
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> yes
<LaserJock> ajmitch: umm, no. I don't know how/who
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, see PlanetUbuntu on the wiki.
<ajmitch> alright.. let's show him :)
<LaserJock> and I need a hackergotchi too ;-)
<ajmitch> we need him on the planet!
<Fujitsu> Very easy, checkout and commit a bzr branch.
<ajmitch> you have one on launchpad, don't you?
<Fujitsu> (I did it for elkbuntu a while ago)
<imbrandon> and if i just "debuild" it it works, so its something screwy with the command paths i'm gussing
<LaserJock> ajmitch: umm, well
<imbrandon> yea very simple
<ajmitch> hm, not the photo of LaserJock which I've seen...
<imbrandon> LaserJock, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PlanetUbuntu or me or Fujitsu can do it for you
<imbrandon> but its easy
<Fujitsu> Ja, I think I've even got the checkout here still.
<LaserJock> I'll do it
<LaserJock> ajmitch: yeah, I wanted to put something better
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I don't want to lower the quality of planet with that bad pic
<LaserJock> ;-)
<ajmitch> heh
<LaserJock> how excellent, I can't figure out how to log into my blog :-)
<imbrandon> http://laserjock.us/blog/?feed=rss2
<ajmitch> LaserJock: where is your blog hosted?
<LaserJock> on my site
* ajmitch has nothing to blog about
<imbrandon> LaserJock, Wordpress ?
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> for some reason I think my theme doesn't show a place to log in
<imbrandon> you removed the meta link, hahaha laserjock.us/blog/wp-login.php
<Fujitsu> Yeah, the link is missing, yay.
<imbrandon> good thing all wp logins are at the same url ;)
<imbrandon> http://www.laserjock.us/blog/wp-login.php
<LaserJock> hmm, well that's weird
<TheMuso> Wow! Labels on tins of tuna are not lying when they say the flavour is chilli. :)
<TheMuso> chili
<imbrandon> ok ajmitch , deity guru, please help me, "debuild" works but from the howto " TARGET=powerpc-linux-gnu fakeroot debian/rules binary-cross > ../binutils.build 2>&1 || echo 'Build error' " dosent , e.g it cant find configure http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/25276/
<imbrandon> TheMuso, hehehe
<ajmitch> you looked at it funny
<imbrandon> chili flavored tuna ? wow
<TheMuso> imbrandon: yeah
<ajmitch> imbrandon: this is a stock binutils package?
<imbrandon> ajmitch, does debuild change dir and run it or something ?
<imbrandon> yup streight from edgy
<imbrandon> just apt-get sourced it like the howto said , no changes
<ajmitch> ok
<TheMuso> aah my lips. :p
<ajmitch> let me look
<ajmitch> figures..
<ajmitch> there is of course no configure
<imbrandon> if i could get past this one part i'm sure i could set up a ppc pbuilder on i386
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> the rest has gone incredably smooh and looks sane
<LaserJock> hmm, well I have a start of a hackergotchi
<ajmitch> ok, configuring
<LaserJock> but I can't figure out how to do the shadow thing
* ajmitch waits for crack
<imbrandon> there is in the subdir the tar unpacks
<ajmitch> line 627 of debian/rules
<ajmitch> 	    && env CC="$(CC)" ../binutils-2.17/configure --host=$(DEB_HOST_GNU_TYPE) \
<imbrandon> and it calls it correctly when "debuild" is used
<ajmitch> I inserted the source dir name in there
<ajmitch> debuild won't be doing the cross-compile targets
<imbrandon> just not.... fakeroot debian/rules ......
<lastnode> LaserJock, gimp has a filter
<TheMuso> imbrandon: What are you needing to work with binutils for?
<imbrandon> configuring with my command ?
<ajmitch> imbrandon: debuild uses different parts of the rules file for a standard build
<imbrandon> oh wow ok
<imbrandon> right
<ajmitch> my 'fix' may be completely crackful & wrong
<imbrandon> TheMuso, ppc cross compiler
<imbrandon> ajmitch, ahh
<TheMuso> oooo
<ajmitch> but it's built stuff
<ajmitch> so I'll see what the end result is like
<ajmitch> dpkg-deb: building package `binutils-powerpc-linux-gnu' in `../binutils-powerpc-linux-gnu_2.17-1ubuntu1_amd64.deb'.
<imbrandon> well its working , we'll see how it go's ;)
<ajmitch> dunno if it's useful or not
<imbrandon> very cool , thats exactly what i was wanting
<imbrandon> btw all serouisness couldent this be used to make a 32bit firefox in a amd64 deb ? i just thought about that
<ajmitch> hrwxr-xr-x root/root         0 2006-09-30 20:44 ./usr/powerpc-linux-gnu/bin/nm link to ./usr/bin/powerpc-linux-gnu-nm
<imbrandon> i mean thats not what i'm doing obviously
<ajmitch> you need 32-bit libs
<imbrandon> but ....
<ajmitch> that's what this whole flamewar is about
<slomo> imbrandon: in theory yes... you only need all libraries that it depends on...
<imbrandon> oh well once i get my ppc pbuilder on i386 going i'll much with that
<imbrandon> wow ok, nevermind, i'll just stick to my ppc cross compiler ;)
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> will make compiling debs for my lappy much faster i hope
<imbrandon> and give Fujitsu and Hobbsee access to a ppc pbuilder ;)
<TheMuso> imbrandon: What did you have to do? I would be interested in that also, and I also think it is worth writing up as I am sure many motus could benefit from that.
<TheMuso> A couple of times I have built stuff in an i386 pbuilder with no problems, but it has failed in ppc.
<TheMuso> But my ppc machine is somewhat slow.
<TheMuso> It would be nice to have a pbuilder on my P4 for ppc. :)
<ajmitch> i386 on amd64 is absolutely no problem, because it's basically the same arch, and the processor handles it
<ajmitch> cross-compiling is always harder
<imbrandon> TheMuso, definately , let me finish it up here then i'll modify the howto i'm following to work on edgy and post it
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Cool thanks heaps.
<TheMuso> ajmitch: Yeah I know.
<TheMuso> I have read about it a bit in the past.
<imbrandon> yea its a bunch of trickery but it dosent look hackish tbh
<Lathiat> ajmitch: yes this whole /etc/deafult thing is causign some fun
<Lathiat> has anyone made it handle upgrades yet?
<Lathiat> i havent looked
<imbrandon> oh man this is a pain
<ajmitch> imbrandon: you knew it wouldn't be easy
<imbrandon> heh yea
<imbrandon> i'm gonna keep at it this time though
<imbrandon> i've tried 2 or 3 other times and gave up
<Fujitsu> Is there any reason that mt-daapd hasn't been packaged?
<imbrandon> maybe becouse its fairly new, who knows
<imbrandon> runs fine on my dapper server though ;)
<slomo> Fujitsu: it's in NEW in debian
<Fujitsu> slomo, aha!
<slomo> Fujitsu: and it wasn't packaged before because of non-free code
<Fujitsu> OK, thanks.
<ajmitch> as is usual with this sort of thing
<Lathiat> ajmitch: interestingly whatever konq does vs firefox makes that long subject in horde not crash
<xopher> How should I name a package versioned 0.32.0 rc2 ?
<Fujitsu> 0.32.0~rc2, I believe.
<Fujitsu> I'm pretty sure, at least.
<xopher> ok, thanks
<Cimi> Hi all I need to talk with a manteiner please
<Cimi> it's important
<ajmitch> maintainer of what?
<Cimi> x11?
<ajmitch> if there's a bug, it's best handling by filing it on launchpad
<Cimi> it's a package to add
<ajmitch> main & universe are frozen for new packages
<ajmitch> what is this package?
<Cimi> gtk2-engines-murrine
<Cimi> http://www.mail-archive.com/ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com/msg03122.html
<Cimi> Mark shuttleworth said me to ask here
<ajmitch> as we've just gone into universe freeze, you'd need to get the approval of the UVF team
<Cimi> is mark in the UVF team?
<gnomefreak> ajmitch: your a motu?
<ajmitch> file a bug on launchpad requesting it, assign/subscribe motu-uvf
<ajmitch> explain your case in there
<ajmitch> gnomefreak: motu & core dev, why?
<gnomefreak> oh yeah
<gnomefreak> how would you feel about packaging a package :)
<Cimi> ajmitch, could you do it by me?
<ajmitch> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Processes/UVF
<imbrandon> gnomefreak, ajmitch is core ;)
<ajmitch> gnomefreak: what package are you wanting now?
<gnomefreak> lol @ now
<gnomefreak> canoe
<gnomefreak> and kanoe
<ajmitch> never heard of it
<gnomefreak> ajmitch: hold on
<Cimi> ajmitch, could you ask UVF team for me?
<imbrandon> Cimi, i just read the mail from mark, that was prior to the freeze
<lastnode> gnomefreak, here already
<ajmitch> Cimi: you can probably better explain your case
<gnomefreak> ajmitch: im grabbing the creator now
<ajmitch> http://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+filebug
<Cimi> was hours ago!
<gnomefreak> nvm hes already here :)
<Cimi> I was sleeping!
<imbrandon> ajmitch, thats those lastnode things
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, it was post-freeze.
<imbrandon> he has been working on
<lastnode> :-)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: right, so it's already packaged, I don't need to touch it?
<gnomefreak> ajmitch: lastnode made a package and i would like an easy way for people to test this so we can try to slip it in edgy+!
<gnomefreak> ajmitch: its svn
<imbrandon> gnomefreak, i told him when it got near time to add them ( december ) i would
<lastnode> ajmitch, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Upstream has a basic spec, https://svn.sf.net/svnroot/upstream/trunk is where the trunk is.
<ajmitch> Cimi: you have a package for it ready to go into universe?
<imbrandon> Cimi, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Processes/UVF
<lastnode> right now we have a base and two working frontends
<gnomefreak> iomi understand but i would like a pretty long testing period and now many people can do svn's
<Cimi> ajmitch, I'm not an ubuntu user
<imbrandon> still needs a uvf ;)
<ajmitch> ah, so you're requesting it be packaged first, and then get approval?
<Cimi> ajmitch, but it's not difficult since the steps for install it are the same as ubuntulooks
<gnomefreak> ajmitch: yes
<gnomefreak> this is to help with pastebins. making it easier for new users (new users cant install from svn)
<gnomefreak> maybe
<lastnode> ajmitch, gnomefreak suggested we try and get it maximum exposure and break it as much as possible, so by the time universe opens it'll be quite stable.
<imbrandon> ahh ajmitch the mail from mark was informing him to come here and poke someone to package it and put it in universe, he is upstream and has no time to do so
* ajmitch is sure he's seen some 3rd party package of gtk2-engines-murrine floating round
<ajmitch> imbrandon: yes, I just saw that
<lastnode> ajmitch, ive been working with imbrandon from the start, so it's pretty well modularized. (as in imbrandon has been giving design advice)
<ajmitch> lastnode: ok, so why ask me to handle it instead of imbrandon ?
<imbrandon> heh
<lastnode> ajmitch, gnomefreak just said he'd ask a MOTU. :-)
* ajmitch sighs
<ajmitch> Cimi: do you at least have an url to a tarball?
<gnomefreak> imbrandon: is kicking but on kubuntu stuff
<gnomefreak> butt.
<imbrandon> lastnode, i'll poke at it tomarrow and package it up for you , then we'll see about putting it in my personal repo on imbrandon.com to test it for universe un-freeze in december , OK ?
<imbrandon> lastnode, me and ajmitch are both MOTU and core-dev's ;)
<lastnode> imbrandon, that would be sweet. once you package it, if you give me the rules file etc, i can just package every internal release and send it over. thanks.
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> gnomefreak: if a MOTU is already helping, it's probably best that he keep doing so rather than jumping to me :)
<lastnode> imbrandon, yeah, i knew that. but gnomefreak said you'd be busy with kubuntu stuff.
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Hows the cross-compile happenin?
<lastnode> anyway thanks guys, cheers!
<imbrandon> but as i said its been a very long day and i have gcc compiling atm , so i'll do a svn checkout tomarrow and package it up for testing of the world
<imbrandon> we're all busy ;) but i'll make some time
<lastnode> imbrandon, sure, and after that i guess i can look at your rules and update deps accordingly and package? because there are some minor bugs that need to be fixed before we release this .deb
<imbrandon> TheMuso, still churing on gcc atm, if that all go's we'll theres only one more step
<lastnode> sure, i understand that
<imbrandon> ;)
<gnomefreak> imbrandon: how did koffice go?
* gnomefreak sorry got 30 things going on this morning
<TheMuso> imbrandon: cool
<imbrandon> TheMuso, i ran into a small hitch about 30 minutes ago but got it fixed up
<imbrandon> TheMuso, the howto i'm following is for woody so i'm having to adapt a bit ;)
<TheMuso> Right
<imbrandon> gnomefreak, it dident, i never got it totaly done ( as it take amost 6 hours to compile )
<imbrandon> lastnode, yup that will be fine
<gnomefreak> ack
<lastnode> sweet
<imbrandon> wow lots of red on the screen ( name hilights )
<imbrandon> ajmitch,  heeeeeeeeeellllp
<imbrandon> lol
<ajmitch> imbrandon: you'll live
<imbrandon> heh
* imbrandon wonders how long gcc will take to compile
<imbrandon> i wanna test it
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> ahh crap it ftbs
* imbrandon might need a nap and to relook at it in the morning
<imbrandon> ajmitch, any idea where its looking for this limits.h ? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/25289/
<ajmitch> linux-libc-dev
<ajmitch> which are arch-specific, I think
<imbrandon> yea i have libc6-dev-powerpc installed
<imbrandon> i think *looks*
<ajmitch> not libc-dev
<ajmitch> this is the old linux-kernel-headers package
<imbrandon> brandon@horatio:~/devel/cross-toolchain$ dpkg -l|grep powerpc
<imbrandon> ii  binutils-powerpc-linux-gnu                    2.17-1ubuntu1                        The GNU binary utilities, for powerpc-linux-
<imbrandon> ii  libc6-dev-powerpc-cross                       2.3.6-0ubuntu20                      GNU C Library: Development Libraries and Hea
<imbrandon> ii  libc6-powerpc-cross                           2.3.6-0ubuntu20                      GNU C Library: Shared libraries and Timezone
<imbrandon> ii  linux-headers-2.6.17-10-powerpc-cross         2.6.17-10.24                         Header files related to Linux kernel version
<imbrandon> iU  linux-headers-2.6.17-10-powerpc-powerpc-cross 2.6.17-10.24                         Linux kernel headers for version 2.6.17 on 3
<ajmitch> not linux-headers-* either :)
<imbrandon> hum
<imbrandon> ok so i need an OLD header ?
<ajmitch> don't ask me
<imbrandon> i'm missing something here , maybe cuz i'm tired
* ajmitch also
<ajmitch> and I'm trying to do a rush packaging job again
<imbrandon> hehe
* ajmitch sighs
<imbrandon> ohhhh wait  i'm missing a dep too , shiznit
<imbrandon> dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: libc6-dev-powerpc-cross (>= 2.3.6-7) libc6-dev-ppc64-powerpc-cross (>= 2.3.6-7)
* imbrandon fixes
* StevenK materalises.
<imbrandon> ajmitch, for ?
<ajmitch> ah, StevenK is here
<ajmitch> imbrandon: I'm looking at that murrine theme for some reason
<imbrandon> ahh
<imbrandon> heya StevenK
* StevenK waves to ajmitch and imbrandon 
<imbrandon> crap i was doing the wrong libc6 anyhow /me gets 2.4
<imbrandon> StevenK, cross compiling tool chains are FUN ;)
<StevenK> Oh no it isn't.
* StevenK twitches
<TheMuso> Hey StevenK.
* TheMuso is installing Ubuntu beta from the desktop CD using accessibility tools.
<TheMuso> And *that* is not fun.
<StevenK> TheMuso: No? The Desktop CD doesn't want to talk?
<TheMuso> I can get the installer to talk, but there are large chunks that are not accessible at all.
<TheMuso> Wow fun!
<TheMuso> When attempting to write the partition table, somethign happened which I can simply *NOT* get orca to read, and now the installer has frozen.
<TheMuso> I now know why I always chose to install using the alternate CD.
<TheMuso> At least the partition table got written.
<Hobbsee> hey all
<ajmitch> hello miss hobbs
<TheMuso> Hey Hobbsee.
<imbrandon> heya Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> :)
* TheMuso is just tempted to burn the alternate and be done with it.
<TheMuso> I'm going to see if the installer freezes at the same spot like it did before. I restarted, but it still froze, and that was with no partitioning done.
<TheMuso> Wondering if its accessibility related.
<imbrandon> ajmitch, ahhh much saner list this time with no build dep issues http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/25293/ , gcc compiling again , hopefully gonna work this time
<imbrandon> ;)
<TheMuso> aha!
<Fujitsu> 'tworks?
<TheMuso> Nope.
<Fujitsu> Died in the same place?
<TheMuso> I think I have an idea about what is causing the freezing problem.
<TheMuso> Something to do with the accessibility framework.
<TheMuso> Now I just have to work out what longs/etc I might need to report this bug.
<TheMuso> I am going to ensure I can reproduce from a fresh boot first.
<TheMuso> Yep, its accessibility alright.
<Fujitsu> That does seem to break a fair few things...
<Fujitsu> Is it gparted that's exploding?
<TheMuso> DOn't know exactly.
<TheMuso> It happens when I press on the forward button.
<TheMuso> I don't think it is partitioning specific, because earlier it saved my partition scheme and then froze when I told it to continue.
<imbrandon> hum whats the easiest way to check what package provides a file ( not one i have installed or i wouldent need the package heh )
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, look at apt-file, or use p.u.c.
<Fujitsu> (packages., not planet. :P)
<imbrandon> right ;)
<TheMuso> I think I'll just file a bug about what happens and take it from there.
<ajmitch> imbrandon: rush-job package being pushed to revu now
<ajmitch> just had to sort out some theme inclusions
* ajmitch should probably not put the metacity theme in there
<ajmitch> but whatever..
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> kk
<ajmitch> daylight saving starts tonight for us
<ajmitch> so 1 hour less sleep
<ajmitch> yay
<imbrandon> ajmitch, what ya make of this .... http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/25297/
<Fujitsu> Another month for us, I believe.
<ajmitch> imbrandon: I believe it doesn't like you
<imbrandon> ouch
<ajmitch> that should be provided by the appropriate libc6-dev-* package
<ajmitch> :1:> dlocate -S /usr/include/gnu/stubs-64.h
<ajmitch> libc6-dev: /usr/include/gnu/stubs-64.h
<imbrandon> hahah somehow i beleave you, this isnt a cakewalk
<imbrandon> haha but its NOT gonna beat me
<imbrandon> ;)
<ajmitch> you'll go home a broken man...
<imbrandon> yea it is , and installed
<imbrandon> see the ls below
<imbrandon> 13. brandon@horatio:~/devel/cross-toolchain$ ls -l /usr/powerpc-linux-gnu/include/powerpc64-linux-gnu/gnu/stubs-64.h
<imbrandon> 14. -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 594 2006-09-15 14:20 /usr/powerpc-linux-gnu/include/powerpc64-linux-gnu/gnu/stubs-64.h
<ajmitch> note that dir isn't in the list of directories to use for inclusion
<imbrandon> hum
<ajmitch> imbrandon: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3300
<ajmitch> go for it
<ajmitch> interesting, 64K .diff
<imbrandon> k
<ajmitch> that really does explode out a bit
<ajmitch> only 4k compressed
<ajmitch> sorry, 7k
<imbrandon> hehe
<ajmitch> oh, I should drop the echo in the rules file
<ajmitch> no big problem
<ajmitch> & usr/sbin from debian/dirs
<ajmitch> past midnight
<zul> meh..
<ajmitch> zul!
<zul> hey ajmitch how is it going?
<imbrandon> heh i was just about to say, late for us both
<zul> early for me
<imbrandon> heya zul
<imbrandon> ajmitch, yea other than the two things you mentioned look ok to me, although i dont know much about gnome themes ( as in where they go etc )
<ajmitch> it's in the right place
<ajmitch> I checked that before throwing them in
<ajmitch> themes work, etc
<imbrandon> auto cruft but thats normal stuff
<ajmitch> what autocruft?
<ajmitch> the .diff has no config.*
<imbrandon> cool yea looks good to me thne
<Fujitsu> Looks sane.
<imbrandon> then*
<ajmitch> someone beg for UVF then, I'm off to bed
<Fujitsu> As long as it actually installs in the right place, looks fine.
<imbrandon> the linda stuff
<Fujitsu> Oh dear, not a UVFe.
* Fujitsu runs.
<imbrandon> about maurine having autoconf files
<zul> heh i parsed that as ufie
<imbrandon> hum dunno what she is complaining about then
<imbrandon> slomoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
<imbrandon> ;)
<ajmitch> probably in the orig.tar.gz
<imbrandon> siretart, poke poke
<ajmitch> looks to be the case
* ajmitch sleeps :)
<Hobbsee> night ajmitch
<imbrandon> heh
<Hobbsee> and you're clearly *not* sleeping
<Fujitsu> Hey Hobbsee.
<Fujitsu> You snuck in again.
<Fujitsu> Bye, ajmitch.
<Hobbsee> yep
<imbrandon> yea me too, we might have to slip this one in tomarrow , unless Hobbsee wants to be kind
<Hobbsee> i'm not doing nothing.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: can do it.
<Fujitsu> I've not done a UVFe before...
<imbrandon> gnight all /me is ZzZzzZZzz time also
<Fujitsu> But it shouldn't be hard, with `Mark said so.' :P
<Fujitsu> See ya, imbrandon.
<Hobbsee> hah
<imbrandon> http://www.mail-archive.com/ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com/msg03122.html  is the mail url if you want it
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, ^^
<Fujitsu> Yeah.
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, I've had that open since it was last sent :)
<TheMuso> Ok. Bug filed. That was fun.
<Fujitsu> He really should get his facts straight.
<StevenK> TheMuso: What's the bug number?
* StevenK is half-tempted to subscribe to it.
<TheMuso> Bug #63162
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63162 in ubiquity "Ubiquity crashes after partitioning step with accessibility enabled." [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63162
<Fujitsu> :O
* Fujitsu hits Ubugtu.
<Fujitsu> That can't be right.
<Fujitsu> A useful bug summary.
<TheMuso> heh
* TheMuso wouldn't be surprised if the bug is a dupe of another bug against ubiquity.
<TheMuso> Trouble is, there are a lot of bugs, and most have summaries that are hard to work out without reading the description.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: and kamion prefers to see them all, and work with them himself
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Yeah I know that.
<Hobbsee> ah :)
<siretart> imbrandon: pong
<Hobbsee> siretart: imbrandon went to bed a couple of hours ago
<zul_> 09:53 < imbrandon> this isnt the place for that disscussion though
<tseng> good one
<tseng> 19:52 < Viper550> Noticed no one was responding in ubuntu-artwork, so I thought  I'd pimp my new Usplash theme here
<tseng> there you have it.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Kyral> its....him....the god....BDDEBIAN!
<Hobbsee> Kyral: bow!
<Kyral> I was already
<bddebian> Hi Kyral, not hardly :-(
<bddebian> Heya Hobbsee
<Kyral> oh Hobbsee check out KDE-Apps
<Hobbsee> Kyral: you've made more?
<Kyral> Someone actually went and patched my app and sent me it so I can include it
<Kyral> (Find "fuseisomount"
<siretart> Hobbsee: oh, I've just seen his highlight on me..
<Hobbsee> siretart: :)
<Hobbsee> Kyral: nice :)
<Kyral> Also got bored and submitted my URLPaste script for Konv to the site (for shits and giggles)
<Kyral> I am dev hear me roar
<sistpoty> hi folks
<Kyral> Hobbsee: I would say "feel free to package" but it is meant to be installed on a per user basis
<iXce> hi
<Hobbsee> Kyral: yeah, fair enough
<iXce> hmm when a package does not build, what should I do please?
<iXce> https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/249222
<Hobbsee> iXce: find why it doesnt build, fix the problem, then the fixed versoin uploaded.
<iXce> Hobbsee : i'm not the maintainer :o)
<Hobbsee> you dont have to be.   but i would leave that one to zul_
<Riddell> ubuntu doesn't have maintainers
<iXce> Maintainer: Chuck Short
<iXce> that's what i'd have called a maintainer, but maybe it's just launchpad internals :)
<sistpoty> iXce: he's the maintainer as in "created the package (and usually cares for it)", but anyone else can upload a fix for it as well
<iXce> oh ok
<sistpoty> (though I personally wouldn't exactly touch anything xen related *g*)
<iXce> i thought there were a kind of "sponsoring" like in debian, where normal guys can only send their fix to real maintainers
<Riddell> no
<iXce> okay :)
<Riddell> and maintainers can be "normal guys" too :)
<iXce> :)
<iXce> that's why ubuntu is great :)
<sistpoty> it has is drawbacks as well... like nobody being responsible for some packages ;)
<sistpoty> s/being/feeling/
<iXce> you can't have everything  ^^
<sistpoty> exactly
<iXce> xen-source-2.6.16 2.6.16-11.2 (tar) [117MB] 
<iXce> huge source :/
<iXce> oh yeah the problem sounds obvious
<iXce> Wireless LAN drivers (non-hamradio) & Wireless Extensions (NET_RADIO) [N/y/?]  n
<iXce> RaLinkTech Experimental drivers (RT_EXP) [N/y]  (NEW) aborted!
<Hobbsee> Riddell: they cant be green bug eyed aliens though :(
<iXce> lol
<iXce> hm it'll take ages to recompile that package :s
<phanatic> good afternoon
<iXce> hi
<iXce> zul ?
<Hobbsee> heya
<bddebian> Heya phanatic
<phanatic> heya bddebian
<ash211> anybody know where syncs from kcontrol-autostart come from?
<ash211> bug 44786 could be fixed with a sync
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 44786 in beagle "beagle.xpi should not be gzipped" [Low,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44786
<ash211> sorry, bug 44784
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 44784 in kcontrol-autostart "kcontrol-autostart removes "Type=Application" from every desktop file in ~/.kde/Autostart" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44784
<zul> iXce: yep
<iXce> zul : hi
<iXce> are you aware that the latest xen-source failed to build on i386?
<iXce> https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/249222
<zul> yes working on 2.6.17 right now
<iXce> oh ok :)
<iXce> so i can give up on debugging the 2.6.16 one?
<zul> yep
<iXce> okay :)
<iXce> any ETA? ^^
<zul> x86 is alrady done im trying to debug amd64 now
<iXce> okay :) great!
<LaserJock> hmm, this maxima bug really stinks
<bddebian> LaserJock: Yeah it does
<LaserJock> TeXmacs is also affected
<LaserJock> so we have at least 3 frontends rendered unusable in both Dapper and Edgy
<tseng> Suggests: vim
<tseng> that should fix things
<zul> or nano
<ivoks> ajmitch: thanks for taking care of libburn
<LaserJock> argg
<LaserJock> sometimes I hate FLOSS development
<zul> Lathiat: hmmm?
<zul> i meant LaserJock
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> 1 sentence on planet.u.c just got me in big trouble with KDE
<zul> heh well what did you say?
<LaserJock> it wasn't even me
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> LaserJock: well, i had jdub slashing on me :)
<LaserJock> "Travis, Pete, and some more people started their work on Gallium, replacement for Kalzium, and we can already see some usable results."
<zul> oh the edubuntu thing
<LaserJock> now it's on a blog and 2 MLs that I'm the devel
<LaserJock> devil even
<zul> heh
<LaserJock> this is the first FLOSS (or software period) project I've really tried to do
<LaserJock> We have a LP page and like 2 days of hacking
<LaserJock> I don't even know how to respond really, I'm in shock
<ivoks> LaserJock: lol, don't take it so harsh
<ivoks> LaserJock: this is quite normal...
<LaserJock> yeah, but I've got the creators of KDE-Edu and Kalzium all over me
<LaserJock> and I wasn't even trying to threaten them
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> blog comments are interesting sometimes as well
<LaserJock> ouch
<ivoks> LaserJock: what's your blog url?
<LaserJock> well, http://www.laserjock.us/blog/
<LaserJock> but it doesn't have anything on it really
<ivoks> i see :)
<Amaranth> LaserJock: What?
<LaserJock> Amaranth: we got slammed for gallium
<ajmitch> morning
<LaserJock> hi ajmitch
<phanatic> hi ajmitch
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<ajmitch> so did anyone bother to file a UVF bug as I requested last night?
<tseng> who me?
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> fujitsu, hobbsee, etc
<tseng> damn aussies
<bddebian> heh
<ivoks> hi ajmitch
<ivoks> ajmitch: thanks (libburn)
<ajmitch> ivoks: yes, I was wanting to talk to you about that one..
<ivoks> ajmitch: i was too busy these month (i even packaged that in couple of minutes :/)
<ajmitch> I could tell
<ivoks> heh
<ajmitch> at least try & use REVU next time so that you don't upload broken stuff
<ivoks> sorry, my mistake
<rmjb> hi, is there anyone on that worked on the packaging guide at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html ?
<rmjb> i want to know if there's a known error in chapter 4, because I think I ran through it correctly and debuild -S gives a warning
<LaserJock> rmjb: I'm the author
<LaserJock> rmjb: what warning did you get?
<rmjb> ah, okay
<rmjb> top o the page says to use dh_make to copy the source tarball and it gets copied to hello_2.1.1.orig.tar.gz
<rmjb> but when run debuild -S it says it expects hello-debhelper_2.1.1.orig.tar.gz
<rmjb> dunno if this is expected or I'm missing something
<rmjb> the page I'm working on is http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-debhelper.html
<theCore> oh, that my section
<bddebian> Anyone know of some decent C code that checks if a file is a gzip archive?
<rmjb> bddebian: the "file" command returns file types... there should be something in there
<theCore> rmjb, ok, I know what is the problem
<LaserJock> rmjb: ohhh
<theCore> rmjb, the package is named hello-debhelper
<LaserJock> yes
<rmjb> yeah, I changed it in the control file
<rmjb> as recommended
<theCore> rmjb, so, you need to rename the orig file to hello-debhelper_2.1.1.orig.tar.gz
<LaserJock> the orig.tar.gz. should be http://cniehaus.livejournal.com/27154.html#comments
<LaserJock> argg
<LaserJock> hello-debhelper_2.1.1.orig.tar.gz
<theCore> rmjb, mv hello-2.1.1.tar.gz hello-debhelper_2.1.1.orig.tar.gz
<rmjb> okay, I thought so, just making sure I didn't miss someting
<rmjb> yeah got that... thanks
<rmjb> gtg
<theCore> hmm
<theCore> not really true
<theCore> LaserJock, why `apt-get source hello-debhelper'
<LaserJock> to get hello-debhelper
<Q-FUNK> crimsun: thanks for the Ack's. :)
<theCore> LaserJock, yeah, but why?
<LaserJock> becuase I'm showing debhelper
<theCore> LaserJock, to compare the packages?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: yes, I saw that kalzium thing earlier :)
<bddebian> rmjb: Thx
<zul> wheee...
<zul> and there was much rejoicing
<zul> xen-image-xen0-2.6.17-1-generic-xen0_2.6.17-1_amd64.deb
<iXce> hm?
<ajmitch> congrats, zul :)
<iXce> yeah congrats & thanks :)
<zul> so who is handling uvf today?
<LaserJock> ok, well that's sort of done
<pygi> hey jdong
<rmjb> hey guys, thanks for the guidance on the packaging guide, catch you all later
#ubuntu-motu 2006-10-01
<pygi> jdong: ping_
<pygi> ?
<jdong> pygi: pong
<pygi> jdong: you wrote a UVF request for wine? :)
<jdong> pygi: no, not yet
<pygi> jdong: oki, just wanted to ask :)
<jdong> pygi: but further looking around shows that 0.9.21 is a buggy release, and we REALLY should get 22
<jdong> pygi: so you wanna UVF it?
<pygi> jdong: that is true
<jdong> I'm busy doing some prevu fixups right now
<pygi> jdong: but 22 isn't out yet if I'm not mistaken?
<jdong> pygi: yes it is :)
<jdong> winehq
<jdong> builds cleanly with our diff.gz
<pygi> the last one I see is 21 :P
* pygi is probably blind or something :P
<jdong> http://www.winehq.com/?announce=latest
<pygi> hm, right, snapshot date
<jdong> it's a fresh new release
<pygi> ergh, that isn't on their homepage :)
<pygi> well, we want 22 :)
<pygi> I'll leave you now to do the fixups and bug you again later :)
<Fujitsu> Our NZian friend is back in -devel... What fun.
<tseng> Fujitsu: oh
<Fujitsu> This guy was MarkShuttleworth, and comes back in every few days... He just won't give up.
<tseng> some day -devel will be +m
<Q-FUNK> odd guy
<iXce> no way to get rid of him?
<tseng> I just did
<tseng> but he will be back
<Fujitsu> Unfortunately, we can't ban him trivially, as he's on a dynamic IP, and it's the largest ISP in NZ, apparently.
<iXce> argh
<jdong> is there any way to manually give pbuilder some deb packages to use while resolving dependencies?
<jdong> i.e. I am backporting foo, but that needs a libbar/libbar-dev backport
<tseng> you can either --save-after-login and install them by hand
<tseng> or build an apt source and add it
<jdong> tseng: hmm, ok
<jdong> tseng: is pbuilder smart enough to automatically bind-mount, or do I need to do it for it?
<tseng> bind-mount what?
<jdong> tseng: i.e. othermirror "deb file:/var/cache/pbuilder/result"
<jdong> will it be able to find it?
<tseng> erm
<tseng> no.
<tseng> its a chroot
<jdong> ok, simple pbuilderrc modification then
<jdong> thanks tseng!
<lupine_85> bam the whole ISP? ;)
<lupine_85> ban*
<tseng> lupine_85: erm, no.
<TheMuso> Hey all.
<Fujitsu> Hey TheMuso.
<LaserJock> hi
<Fujitsu> Hi LaserJock.
<tseng> yay LaserJock
<Fujitsu> \o/ Ubuntuholic.
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> well, I think I managed to get my blog on planet
<LaserJock> now I need to blog something
<pygi> nice LaserJock :)
<LaserJock> but today hasn't been all that fun so I'm not sure what to do
<tseng> blog about lasers?
<LaserJock> tseng: I'd get kicked off planet
<tseng> LaserJock: ...?
<LaserJock> for just blabbing about lasers
<LaserJock> who cares about lasers
<LaserJock> ;-)
<tseng> the only person who should be kicked off planet is "Ubuntu Demon"
<Fujitsu> ?
<tseng> ?
<Fujitsu> Why>?
<tseng> because his "hackergotchi" gives me seizures, to start
<tseng> a few weeks ago he mistook planet ubuntu for digg.com
<tseng> corey burger straightened him out
<Fujitsu> ...
<LaserJock> the "Tell me what laptop to get" ones were interesting
<LaserJock> but whatever
<tseng> you must have missed the 3 posts a day with no content
<tseng> "I FOUND ANOTHER WEBSIGHT"
<tseng> etc
<Fujitsu> Terrific.
<tseng> I have a stricter idea of what a recognized memeber should be, I guess
<LaserJock> hmm, the network montior applet is reeealy wide
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, using wireless?
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> upgraded to edgy last night
<LaserJock> everything seems awesome
<LaserJock> it even resumes right now
<Fujitsu> Yay :)
<Fujitsu> I'm currently building 2.6.18 to see if it fixes some of my audio problems...
<LaserJock> X even worked the first time ;-)
<pygi> LaserJock: I had to chroot into my system to change users password, because the one I chosen on install wasn't correct :P
<Fujitsu> It has some nice Intel HDA fixes.
<tseng> intel hda fixes eh?
* tseng looks at his intel hda
<tseng> what problems, btw
<Fujitsu> Applications attempting to access the microphone hang, I've only got PCM and Master mixers...
<Fujitsu> (ICH6 is the chipset)
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> so maybe I should try hooking up my digital camera
<Fujitsu> Why?
<LaserJock> I've never tried it in Linux before
<Fujitsu> Wow.
<Fujitsu> Mine just appears as a USB Mass Storage device, so it works fine.
<LaserJock> remember, I don't *actually* use my computer ;-)
<pygi> night all
<Fujitsu> See ya, pygi.
<LaserJock> oh wow
<LaserJock> it just pops up a window
<LaserJock> "Import Photos", is that fspot?
<Fujitsu> No, still gthumb.
* LaserJock fires up f-spot for the first time
<Lathiat> i find the gthumb stuff works nice tho
<Fujitsu> Lathiat, yeah, I don't use F-Spot.
<LaserJock> I've never even seen an f-spot screenshot
<LaserJock> man I need to get a life
<LaserJock> wow, that was rather smooth
<LaserJock> but than windows
<LaserJock> Ubuntu stikes again
<tseng> LaserJock: f-spot rules
<ajmitch> hi
<tseng> hi ajmitch
* ajmitch sees people talking about f-spot again
<tseng> nice f-spot highlight
<ajmitch> nah
<ajmitch> I just came back
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I just tried it for the first time
<LaserJock> first time using my digital camera with linux
<LaserJock> ver cool
<LaserJock> *very
<ajmitch> yeah, it's quite a useful program
<minghua> are you guys talking about f-spot?
<tseng> yes
<LaserJock> I'm finally feeling like this laptop is a productive machine
<LaserJock> grr, except I can't get rid of vmplayer
<ajmitch> why can't you drop vmplayer?
<LaserJock> prerm bails
<ajmitch> ah
<ajmitch> I thought you meant that you had to have it for windows or similar :)
<zul> qualify software that vmware
<ajmitch> heh
<LaserJock> well, the prerm runs /etc/init.d/vmplayer stop
<ajmitch> hack the prerm
<LaserJock> which give fails on shutting down the virtual ethernet
<LaserJock> s/give//
<LaserJock> anyway, yeah, I'm going to hack the prerm
<LaserJock> I don't even remember why I had vmplayer on here
<imbrandon> fskin wonderfull, i think that 160 just died
<imbrandon> just what i needed
<LaserJock> hard drive?
<ajmitch> imbrandon: sounds about right
<imbrandon> yea
<Fujitsu> The one giving the SMART error?
<imbrandon> yup
<Fujitsu> ... you hadn't replaced it yet?
<imbrandon> dude i have no cash atm ( not for that anyhow )
<Fujitsu> Ah, OK.
<imbrandon> great, looks like i'm stuck on my lappy for a while ;(
<imbrandon> i have all the data , thats no biggie, its just no hdd in that computer now ;(
<imbrandon> heh anyone wanna buy an ipod , or trade for a new sata drive ? hehe
<crimsun> imbrandon: cf. query.
<LaserJock> "Sorry, the program "f-spot.exe" closed unexpectedly." - oops :-)
<zul> heh i think we are having a girl, it just moved when my wife mentioned the word shopping
<LaserJock> hahaha
<LaserJock> anybody got a sid chroot/box?
<zul> i use to
<tseng> i do on the other pc
<tseng> but i cant be arsed to get up
<ajmitch> LaserJock: yes
<LaserJock> ajmitch: can you madison if gnome-chemistry-utils
<ajmitch> let me update first
<zul> heh better ask later then ;)
<ajmitch> :P
<minghua> LaserJock: I don't think gnome-chemistry-utils is in debian
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> you'd think I would know these things better
<minghua> I don't have deb-src in sources.list, but my "apt-cache madison gchemutils" shows nothing
<LaserJock> since I'm part of the group maintaining it
<LaserJock> well, I thought it was supposed to be in Debian now but I couldn't find it in NEW
<LaserJock> so I thought maybe packages.debian.org just hadn't synced or something
<minghua> LaserJock: check http://<your-favorite-mirror>/debian/pool/main/g/
<minghua> and mine doesn't have gnome-chemistry-utils there
<LaserJock> hm, ok
<LaserJock> I guess maybe azeem hasn't uploaded it yet
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, it's in NEW.
<Fujitsu> Or it was two days ago..
<LaserJock> oh
<LaserJock> Debian NEW?
<Fujitsu> Yes, that's what I meant.
<Fujitsu> I believe there was a dependency issue with putting 0.6.0 in Ubuntu.
<LaserJock> yeah, goffice I think
<Fujitsu> Yep, that's the one.
<Lathiat> sweet beryl+aiglx with nvidia twinview now does dual head properly
<Lathiat> makes it usable
<LaserJock> ok, stupid question
<LaserJock> can I resend a message in Mutt?
<LaserJock> I messed up the To: address accidently on a lengthy email
<zul> bounce isnt it?
<Fujitsu> Hey Hobbsee...
<Fujitsu> That NZ guy has been back this morning, twice.
<zul> hey Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey Fujitsu, zul
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: great....
<Fujitsu> His hostmask is always something like:
<Hobbsee> why didnt someone ban him?
<Fujitsu> Wonton@219-89-*-*.dialup.xtra.co.nz
<Fujitsu> Who knows.
<Hobbsee> yeah
* Hobbsee would try a +d
<Fujitsu> Banning the entire subnet can't really be done, but by username as well should work.
<Fujitsu> +d?
* Hobbsee doubts he would get around it
<Hobbsee> real name ban
<Hobbsee> only problem is that i dont remember how to put it in
<Fujitsu> `Rootbeer' has been his real name on the past couple of occasions.
* Hobbsee nods
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: remember what his last nickname was?
<Fujitsu> ZigGaag.
<Hobbsee> hmmm, yeah
<Fujitsu> Before that was BloaSE.
<LaserJock> imbrandon: heh, nice post
<imbrandon> LaserJock: heh , thanks, real thanks to the kind souls ;)
<tseng> hello dudes
<imbrandon> heya tseng
<ajmitch> hi tseng
<ajmitch> imbrandon: lucky chap
<imbrandon> yea no doubt, very !
<tseng> imbrandon: woo new drive
<ajmitch> good thing I'd replaced my 160GB drive just before mine died
<imbrandon> oh man i just thought about something , the only thing i DIDENT have backed up was the ssh key
<imbrandon> crap, can you remove that from tiber please ajmitch
<ajmitch> I suppose I can
<imbrandon> many thanks
<ajmitch> cleared
<imbrandon> cool thanks
<imbrandon> heh you know the funny part is my laptop ( the machine i'll be on the next while ) is gnome
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> it's a sign
<imbrandon> ;)
<Toadstool> heya everybody !
<LaserJock> hi Toadstool
<Toadstool> hey LaserJock
<Toadstool> crap... now my wifi chip can associate with the AP but I can't get a dhcp lease :/ let's try with a fixed config
<Toadstool> (and welcome to Toadstool's BroadCom adventures...)
<Plug> Can I leave a patch in the patches dir for dapper, even if I'm building for edgy, to make backporting easier?
<Plug> (but not in the 00list, f.ex)
<ajmitch> sure
<LaserJock> darn it, I hate it when I start working on one machine when I was supposed to be working on another
<Plug> ajmitch: if you've uploaded -0ubuntu1, do I now need to increment version #s ?
<ajmitch> yes
<imbrandon> hum ubuntu should have a usplash correct ?
<imbrandon> e.g. not the test card
<imbrandon> for some reason i still have the test card on my laptop usplash
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Wow thats so cool, and very kind of that person to do so.
<imbrandon> yea it was super cool
<imbrandon> s/was/is
<imbrandon> ;)
<TheMuso> Hows the ppc cross-compilation coming? Or was that on your dead server?
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I think it still might have the test, at least I think mine does
<imbrandon> LaserJock, test ?
<LaserJock> usplash
<imbrandon> TheMuso, it was on the dead server , but fortunately i know how i did it and am writing it up now
<imbrandon> LaserJock, ahh ok
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Did you get that compilation problem solved?
<TheMuso> Cool. Looking forward to it.
<imbrandon> TheMuso, i should have a rudimentry howto in a hour or so
<imbrandon> TheMuso, yup yup
<TheMuso> Nice.
<imbrandon> TheMuso, yea most of it was dep issues
<LaserJock> imbrandon: btw, I think I've been Thunderbird free for a whole week ;-)
<imbrandon> LaserJock, nice ;)
<imbrandon> one sec i'm gonna grab a bite to eat
<rmjb> hey guys... what package should I file a bug against if my virtual consoles are wack?
<imbrandon> re
<imbrandon> heya jldugger
<jldugger> hey
<jldugger> i just installed knot 3
<imbrandon> cool , updated to beta ? heh
<jldugger> ?
<jldugger> i did a dist-upgrade afterwards
<imbrandon> beta was just released days ago, yup dist upgrade will do it
<imbrandon> ;)
<jldugger> some oddities
<imbrandon> moins Burgundavia
<jldugger> like the fn keys dont work
<imbrandon> hum
<Burgundavia> hey imbrandon
<imbrandon> laptop or deskrop ?
<Burgundavia> finally home
<imbrandon> and kde or gnome
<jldugger> laptop
<jldugger> wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/ToshibaTecraM7
<jldugger> im still working down the edgy list
<imbrandon> Burgundavia, nice, probably good from being on the road, how was ohio ?
<Burgundavia> colorado
<imbrandon> ahh
<Burgundavia> 1 - 100 of 1515
<imbrandon> my mistake i thought you were in ohio too
<Burgundavia> that is my inbox
<imbrandon> wow LOL
<jldugger> my gmail inbox has like 4000, but 0 unread
<tuxmaniac> Hello All. Should sudo apt-get dist-upgrade -u work?
<tuxmaniac> for getting upgraded from 6.06 to 6.10
<tuxmaniac> after changing sources.list
<tuxmaniac> :)
<tuxmaniac> Looks like xorg packages are not getting dowloaded :( But still let me wait till the download is done
<tuxmaniac> I mean the upgrade
<LaserJock> tuxmaniac: update-manager -c -d is the preffered method I think
* minghua sorted out some ubuntu-bitching in a Chinese debian channel
<LaserJock> hah
<NthDegree> did you say bitch?
<NthDegree> :p
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> those are 2 different words ;-)
<NthDegree> I swear by the end of this week I will have gotten either an edgy or dapper package submitted to universe
<minghua> bitch: to complain and make unkind remarks about someone or something
<minghua> so apparently I am using the right word :-)
<NthDegree> bitch: female dog, like my pet Star ;-)
<NthDegree> hehehe
* minghua wants to have a dog
<tuxmaniac> LaserJock> hmm.. I have already got some 400 MB dowloaded. Can I now change the command?
<minghua> and a pony, too :-)
<LaserJock> tuxmaniac: sure, if you want
<tuxmaniac> I mean abort it and type update-manager - -d
<tuxmaniac> err -c
<tuxmaniac> LaserJock> How did you guys do it?
<LaserJock> do what?
<NthDegree> i just noticed when i'm stupid it stays on the web for years to come lol
<rmjb> hey, it's me again, going through the packaging guide. I've never used GPG before, is there a page in the guide or somewhere that talks about GPG for packagers? Creating, transporting, publishing, backing up and restoring keys?
<minghua> rmjb: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto
<rmjb> thanks minghua
<Burgundavia> Fujitsu_: I found out why the access died. My roommates unplugged my desktop machine, thinking it was not needed as I was away
<Fujitsu_> I thought it might have been something like that.
<Burgundavia> we have 5 computers and a 4 port router
<Fujitsu_> That would do it.
<TheMuso> c
<Q-FUNK> crimsun: thanks for the link on how to request a UVF. :)
<crimsun> np
* ajmitch restarts into a new world of xen 
<ajmitch> well, I have sound but not wireless :)
<ajmitch> easy fix..
<Q-FUNK> erm... in that line about making the diffstat, do they mean against the unpacked tarball?
<ajmitch> afaik, yes
<Q-FUNK> the current line makes it sound as if it was against the tarball itself.
<ajmitch> I just unpack both into a clean directory & run diff against them
<ajmitch> probably needs changed then
<azeem> Laser_away: g-c-u got rejected because it used the deprecated mozilla-dev
<Q-FUNK> ajmitch: needs an extra step:  "unpack both upstream tarballs, then run:"
<Q-FUNK> here, I have never used diffstat and it never crossed my mind whether diff can parse inside tarballs.  hence my question.
<Q-FUNK> about the line to include build logs, of the new one only or both?  I'd assume new since the old log is already on the buildd, but better be safe than sorry. :)
<ajmitch> new one
<ajmitch> since that's the only one you're testing to get in
<ajmitch> what new upstream version are you trying to get in?
* ajmitch will be back soon
<Q-FUNK> cups-pdf 2.4.2.  upstream ran his source thru "splint" and remove extraneous COPYING files.
<Q-FUNK> otherwise, it's still the 2.4.1 codebase.
<imbrandon> heya Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey imbrandon
<ajmitch> Hobbsee!!!
<Fujitsu> Hi imbrandon.
<Fujitsu> And Hobbsee.
<tseng> woo
<Hobbsee> hey ajmitch, Fujitsu
<Hobbsee> hi tseng
<imbrandon> heya Fujitsu
<Adri2000> crimsun: ping
<gnomefreak> will the screansavers be updated under gnome-screensavers or another package?
<ajmitch> how annoying, I can't file a sync since it's not in the (debian) pool yet
<minghua> in the "ping elmo to sync" days, I remember it's possible to sync from incoming?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> but this package (libnss-ldap) has moved on from incoming as well :)
<minghua> oh I see
<ajmitch> I'm not entirely sure why it's not on ftp.d.o yet in that case
<minghua> the mysterious "on the way from incoming to archive" status
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> very irritating
<minghua> I've heard about that before, never know what it really is
<ajmitch> a source of annoyance :)
<sivang> do we have a top level meta package for an ubuntu-server ?
<sivang> or is it essentiall ubuntu-minimal ?
<lupine_85> !info ubuntu-server
<ubotu> Package ubuntu-server does not exist in any distro I know
<lupine_85> bah, i'm sure that used to exist
<sivang> yep, that is what I was aiming at
<sivang> seems to have vanished or removed
<lupine_85> there's edubuntu-server still
<lupine_85> very strange
<lupine_85> !server
<ubotu> Ubuntu Server Edition is a release of Ubuntu designed especially for server environments. The default install includes a server kernel and no GUI. The install CD contains many server applications. Current stable version is 6.06 LTS. For more info see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ServerFaq/
<AnAnt> how can I regenerate the splash screen ?
<welshbyte> good afternoon
<AnAnt> how do I this test [ "$1" == "text ]  in dash ?
<AnAnt> :s/"text/"text"
<minghua> that should work in dash AFAIK
<AnAnt> I get: == unexpected operator !
<minghua> oh I missed that
<minghua> use = instead
<AnAnt> minghua: thanks!
<AnAnt> minghua: btw, you got an idea how to regenerate the splash screen ?
<minghua> AnAnt: sorry, no idea at all
<AnAnt> k
<AnAnt> if $VAR is "foo bar ...
<AnAnt> if $VAR is "foo bar ...", how can I set $VAR1 to be "foo" ?
<lastnode> $VAR1=`expr substr "$VAR" 1 3`
<lastnode> er, nvm
<fbond> AnAnt:VAR=$(echo $VAR | sed 's/\([^ ] *\) .*/\1/') should do it
<fbond> or even easier:
<fbond> VAR=$(echo $VAR | awk '{ print $1 }')
<lastnode> fbond, he /parted
<fbond> oh
<Q-FUNK> slomo: thanks!
<slomo> Q-FUNK: for...? what did i do? :)
<slomo> Q-FUNK: ah, cups-pdf? np :)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<lfittl> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Hi lfittl
<welshbyte> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Heya welshbyte.  Whatcha been up to?
<welshbyte> too much stuff :/
<welshbyte> helping people move out, helping people move in, preparing for the new university year, being a computer society treasurer, helping out in fresher's week, signing up new members, fixing servers... etc.
<bddebian> pfft, no Ubuntu work? ;-P
<tseng> pfft, bddebian
<tseng> he doesnt do ubuntu stuff
<bddebian> He used to :)
<bddebian> Or do you mean I don't?
<tseng> I don't mean anything really
<bddebian> suuuure :-)
<jdong> bddebian: (azureus) hi (azureus). How (azureus) are you (azureus) doing today? (azureus)(azureus)(azureus)(azureus)(azureus)
<jdong> bddebian: no, there's no subliminal messaging at work here :)
<bddebian> haha, hi jdong
<jdong> :)
<jdong> grr, pdebuild doesn't work with democracyplayer....
<jdong> somehow building a *source* archive generates pyc files
<bddebian> What's wrong with that?
<tseng> and why would you build a source package with pdebuild
<jdong> bddebian: what's wrong with that is that debdiff doesn't like binaries :)
<bddebian> Oh, maybe I misunderstood that sentence
<tseng> you did
<tseng> :D
<slomo> what's democracyplayer?
<tseng> yeah i hear about it all the time
<jdong> slomo: some web 2.0 media player type of thing
<tseng> it looks just like totem
<tseng> oh
<jdong> it has a built in torrenter
<jdong> I guess its media is distributed via bittorrent
<slomo> totem + torrent client = web 2.0? :)
<slomo> do you have an url?
<jdong> tseng: pdebuild is a nice and lazy way of sending sources off to pbuilder after mangling the changelog for backporting :)
<tseng> well debuild -S will do just fine for sources
<jdong> tseng: also fails :)
<jdong> tseng: pyc's are made by the build script, which debdiff can't represent
<tseng> are you sure you had a clean source tree?
<tseng> or something else is f'd
<jdong> tseng: I just apt-get sourced it... I swear
<jdong> tseng: I blame it on the package
<tseng> ok then.
<tseng> feel free to fix it in edgy
* jdong investigates
* jdong loves the overly dramatic CFLAGS for libxine-extracodecs :)
* Hobbsee remembers libxine-extracodecs
* Hobbsee did the last couple of uploads to that :P
* slomo created it some time ago... and hates it :P
<jdong>  -O3 -fomit-frame-pointer   -fexpensive-optimizations -fschedule-insns2 -ffast-math -finline-functions
<jdong> now does that really make things any faster?
<tseng> most of those make a bigger binary
<jdong> exactly
<tseng> more chance of cache miss
<tseng> if you had a cache miss anyway
<jdong> and longer compile times
<tseng> its probably faster than before
<slomo> jdong: it's inherited from xine... and -fomit-frame-pointer is the best thing for debugging stuff on x86...
<tseng> slomo: haha
<jdong> slomo: I'm sure -fomit-frame-pointer does wonders in the debugging department :)
<jdong> democracyplayer, debian/rules, "rm -f portable/*.pyc" needs to be "find portable -name *.pyc -print0 | xargs -0 rm -f"
<jdong> otherwise it misses subdirectory BitTornado/
<jdong> would some kind MOTU soul with upload rights help me out? :)
<slomo> jdong: does this use xine for playback?
<jdong> slomo: I don't know... never used it
<givre> Do people know how uuid are set ?
<tseng> uuid of what?
<givre> because i have some strange ones for my fat partition
<givre> tseng: of device
<tseng> i think you are talking about libvolumeid
<tseng> from udev
<givre> UUID=43C0-343B
<jdong> givre: that looks like a typical DOS-style volume serial number to me
<givre> it seams to be a bit short compare to normal uuid
<jdong> what's wrong with it?
<jdong> is this another case of longer is better?
<jdong> well, my vol_id is 10 inches
<tseng> oh jeez
<givre> jdong: ok, my bad then
* jdong wonders if his xine backports breaks anything
<slomo> oh i guess on a system with a few million partitions it could easily break ;)
* jdong opens up a bunch of media players
<slomo> jdong: edgy and dapper xine are compatible iirc
<jdong> slomo: ok, if you say so... I'll do some testing to figure out
<jdong> would be nice if they were.... yay for properly working x264 :)
<jdong> yeah, looks nice
<jdong> damn do 1024 h264's use a lot of CPU
<Shan> i have a question...
<imbrandon> jdong, yes ( i thought i explained that a few days ago to you )
<Shan> i'm interested in putting up a ubuntu mirror server in my country... whom do i contact / where can i get more info?
<jdong> imbrandon: that won't stop me from complaining about it :)
* imbrandon rolls eyes at jdong once again
<imbrandon> Shan, one sec
<Shan> sure
<Shan> coulnd't get the info on the ubuntu site... where as other distro site's clearly state what to do to run a mirror
<imbrandon> Shan, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+newmirror  and talk to the guys ( and gals ) in #ubuntu-mirror
<slomo> jdong: with latest ffmpeg svn cpu usage of h264 became a lot better
<jdong> cool
<jdong> can't wait to see that benefit propagate down
<Shan> thanks for the link. nobody is there on #ubuntu-mirror
<imbrandon> hrm one sec
<jdong> already vlc /win32 beats the crap out of quicktime in terms of CPU usage :)
<imbrandon> ahh Shan #ubuntu-mirrors
<imbrandon> my mistake
<Shan> ok thanks
<imbrandon> np
<jdong> slomo: would you have any objections/concerns about a dapper backport of xine-lib + xine-extracodecs?
<imbrandon> might be better to catch them durring the week , most will be idle now Shan
<slomo> jdong: hm, don't use external ffmpeg for them... but otherwise it should be fine
<jdong> slomo: it uses external ffmpeg by default, doesn't it? :-/
<slomo> the package? yes... but dapper's ffmpeg is a bit... old
<jdong> slomo: if it did build against dapper's ffmpeg, would there be any regressions compared to dapper's original libxine?
<swj> anyone know whats going on with gnome-system-tools 2.15.5 and system-tools-backends 1.9.6 not installing?
<slomo> jdong: no but i wouldn't be surprised
* jdong puts libxine on the "needs manual upload" list
<lucas> http://blog.ekiga.net/index.php?p=32
<lucas> not really good press about edgy beta
<azeem> lucas: seb128 has blogged a response already
<lucas> ah, haven't found it
<lucas> (found it)
<Toadstool> good morning everybody
<Lathiat> Does UVF affect new packages?
<Lathiat> (ISTR it does but just want to check)
<BazziR> yes
<slomo> yes
<Lathiat> ok cheers
<Lathiat> can things be synced from experimental?
<BazziR> slomo: you might be able to help me, should bugs with software currently not in ubuntu be rejected? (I suspect yes), but what should I tell the bug reporter? to contact upstream?
<slomo> Lathiat: yes
<slomo> BazziR: if it's software really not in ubuntu and the bug is not something in one of our libraries reject it and tell the reporter to contact upstream, yes
<BazziR> it's about bug 63409
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63409 in xorg-server "beryl-manager (under Dapper with ati radeon 9600) refuses after some time to obtain/refresh configuration changes" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63409
<Lathiat> yeh unofficial package
<Lathiat> also woo at the tag list :)
<slomo> BazziR: yes, reject
<BazziR> done
<ajmitch> morning
<shawarma> ajmitch: good evening
<ivoks> morning
<Toadstool> hey ajmitch
<rexbron> is there some one here who can re-sync the REVU uploaders keyring?
<ajmitch> yes
* ajmitch does it quickly
<rexbron> nice
<Lathiat> ahh public holidays
<Lathiat> i love it when these come around
<rexbron> im curiouse, the wiki page does not state the web address so that we can log in and respond to comments, what is it ?
<ajmitch> revu.tauware.de
<Lathiat> http://revu.tauware.de
<ajmitch> first link on the wiki page
<rexbron> ty
<lophyte> hey rexbron
<rexbron> hey
<lophyte> what's up?
<rexbron> just got a package uploaded to revu
<lophyte> cool
<lophyte> what package?
<rexbron> ksynaptics
<rexbron> one of the error dialouges gave the wrong info to change your xorg.conf with
<lophyte> ahh
<rexbron> so i found out what the right stuff was
<rexbron> tested that it worked
<lophyte> I had my first package uploaded to universe a week or so ago
<rexbron> basically use Option "SHMConfig" "on" of what was there before
<rexbron> nice on the upload
<rexbron> what was  it
<lophyte> gaim-extendedprefs
<lophyte> a gaim plugin
<lophyte> I haven't found any more easy-fix packages yet
<lophyte> brb, the woman is home
<rexbron> lol
<rexbron> umm, was the key-ring updated, cause im getting auto rejected for lack of uploading rights
<ajmitch> it was
<ajmitch> you are in the launchpad group, and your gpg key is on launchpad?
<rexbron> Yep
<rexbron> ill confirm
<ajmitch> your name on lp?
<ajmitch> rexbron: make sure you're uploading to revu, and not to ubuntu
<rexbron> ill check that
<rexbron> that was the problem
<ajmitch> ok :)
<crimsun> Adri2000: pong
<Adri2000> crimsun: have you seen that in fact there are two different bugs in vlc?
<crimsun> Adri2000: that's not obvious
<crimsun> and in fact I'm fairly certain the earlier is related to the latter
<crimsun> later, even
<Adri2000> maybe, but as the crash is not reproducible, it won't be easy to know
<crimsun> in e-mail conversation w/ Jean-Baptiste, the segfault is supposed to be fixed in 0928
<crimsun> if it's not fixed in the backported fixes from 0925, I'll pull from 0928
<crimsun> I spent six hours last night stripping cruft just to backport those fixes
<Adri2000> ok
#ubuntu-motu 2007-09-24
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log
<ajmitch> hey jml
<jml> ajmitch: hi
<ajmitch> how's it going?
* ajmitch has yet to switch to the horde character & check out that guild :)
<jml> oh, right.
<jml> ajmitch: so, if you are online after 8pm tonight, look for either "Mumak" or "Raskolni" (my toons on Khaz)
* ajmitch only has alliance on there
<jml> sorry.
<jml> Frostmourne
<jml> my bad.
<ajmitch> right :)
<ajmitch> so when are you back to enjoy our stunning weather?
<jml> ajmitch: October, most likely.
<RAOF> Ah, OK, so I need to ask udev to add some rules for kvm.
<RAOF> Cool!  My webcam has a driver.
<RAOF> (Marking is so boring)
<ScottK> RAOF: When I was at University, I had a job grading programs in the introductory programming course.  I got so bored with it that I hired a guy I knew to do it for me.
<RAOF> Man, I'd totally do that.
<RAOF> Also, urgh.  That would have been worse than 1st year algebra & caluclus.
<pwnguin> ill take boring over the overwhelming agony and dread of grading NachOS projects
<RAOF> NachOS?  Apart from the pun, what is it?
<pwnguin> "Not another completely heuristic Operating System"
<RAOF> Right.
<pwnguin> nachos projects are like "add virtual memory"
<RAOF> Aaah.
<pwnguin> or "improve the filesystem to support single and double indirects"
<RAOF> "Touch a bunch of stuff.  Remember: hacks clever enough to confuse the grader score double!"
<pwnguin> oh no
<pwnguin> confusing me is a fast way to lose points
<RAOF> I would imagine that a number of people would go the awesomely performant obfuscation route, though?
<pwnguin> sometimes
<pwnguin> they fare poorly
<pwnguin> one clever group included ascii art, including ascii goatse
<pwnguin> in the comments naturally
<Fujitsu> O_o
<pwnguin> they're lucky the professor doesnt look at code
* RAOF cringes at the "use envy to get obsolete nvidia drivers" advice on ubuntuforums
* ScottK gives up on waiting for bacula to finish compiling and goes to bed ....
<ScottK> StevenK: I thought you might be interested to know that openssl097 only has one rdpend left in Gutsy....  If someone would teach vmware-player to know about openssl 0.9.8, then it could be removed...
* ScottK looked at vmware-player, got confused, and ran away.
* ScottK goes to be really this time.
<ScottK> Good night all.
<siretart> pkern: yeah, and bzr/bzrtools is rather outdated as well. oh well
<siretart> morning folks
<dholbach> good morning
<RAOF> Guten morgen dholbach
<dholbach> hey RAOF!
<dholbach> :-)
<TheMuso> Hey dholbach.
<TheMuso> dholbach: Can you tell me if we are planning on having a hard freeze for unverse, and if so, when it comes into effect?
<dholbach> TheMuso: best to ask slangasek, pitti and Mithrandir in #ubuntu-devel about that
<dholbach> TheMuso: I don't know
<TheMuso> dholbach: Ok will do
<dholbach> TheMuso: gracias
<norsetto> morning
<dholbach> hey norsetto
<dholbach> congratulations norsetto!
<norsetto> dholbach: hiya master :-)
<TheMuso> heh
* jussi01 wonders what the congrats are in order for...
<norsetto> jussi01: I just turned 86
<jussi01> lol
<jussi01> norsetto: how so...?
<pwnguin> should i be worried if top shows http as the most active process?
<minghua> http or httpd?
<pwnguin> http
<pwnguin> good point
<minghua> I would be worried.  But then again I don't run HTTP servers, so I wouldn't know.
<pwnguin> its aptget
<pwnguin> top just shows http
<pwnguin> but it's apt get downloading packages in the background
<pwnguin> neat. desmume is packaged.
<\sh> is anyone using gajim right now?
<\sh> moins btw
<pwnguin> ok, i think i found a package i'd like to push an upstream exception for.
<pwnguin> from a testing standpoint, the version's already in debian testing
<pkern> siretart: Apart from that it was quite intuitive on Ubuntu, thanks to the documentation.
<siretart> :)
<siretart> pkern: feel free to update bzr and friends on bpo. I think I've done it in the past, but its not that high on my todo list
<siretart> since I don't have an debian etch machine around atm
<pkern> siretart: Do you know if there are special dependencies to satisfy?
<siretart> no. the backport used to be very straightforward
<siretart> however I haven't looked at the new pyrex stuff yet. bzr is now arch:any (used to be arch:all)
<siretart> pkern: are you already in the bpo keyring?
<pkern> siretart: Sure.
<siretart> cool!
<pkern> siretart: Ages ago. Used it for Gobby backports. ;)
<siretart> :)
<pkern> siretart: Hm. Only 0.18-1 could possibly be backported because that's the version in testing. (New policy.)
<pkern> siretart: (bzr) But maybe it propagates in two days time.
<siretart> pkern: only if someone gets hold of neuro to fix the mips buildd chroot :/
<pwnguin> what's the command to automagically fix the maintainers field?
<pwnguin> upadate-maintainer
<pwnguin> thats what it was
<pkern> siretart: Maybe dato could place a hint? Strangely enough it does not list mips as outdated in excuses, probably because it's still `building' and not failed somehow.
<adamh> If a package *isn't* in Universe/Multiverse and nobody is responding to my clear bug report (which has included a solution for over 9 months), how do I go about making sure the bug doesn't become "Invalid"?
<adamh> (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/opensp/+bug/36005 by the way)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 36005 in opensp "Errors parsing XHTML DTD" [Medium,Invalid] 
<pwnguin> i suggest marching to canonical headquarters
<pwnguin> usually, i'd also recommend armaments, but the UK frowns on carrynig
<adamh> How can I at least remove its "Invalid" status?
<pwnguin> by clicking on invalid?
<adamh> Ooh fantastic. Thanks :)
<adamh> Should I mark it "New" then?
<pwnguin> i think you'd be better off reporting this upstream and linking in launchpad
<pwnguin> incomplete
<adamh> There already is a report in Debian. The bug isn't upstream, it's a packaging bug.
<pkern> How hard is it to join the Debian QA team to modify bug importances?
<dholbach> pkern: talk to bdmurray in #ubuntu-bugs (US timezone) about it (in case you mean Ubuntu QA ;-))
<dholbach> pkern: it should be fairly easy if you demonstrate your familiarity with distribution bugs :)
<pkern> dholbach: Ok. ;)
<pkern> dholbach: Is there s.th. I should read up before he questions me?
<dholbach> pkern: I believe there's some explanation on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuQA
<siretart> pkern: he could, but this would horribly break bzr on mips - so he rather waits for neuro
<proppy> hi
<jussi01> hi proppy
<norsetto> dholbach: since you got rid of me, what about taking up a new contributor (much better than me, so you gain in the swap)?
<jsgotangco> huh?
<proppy> norsetto: congratulations !
<norsetto> proppy: hey, thx
<pwnguin> how do i get pbuilder to generate a log for attaching to lp?
<TheMuso> pwnguin: sudo pbuilder build --logfile logfile.txt package.dsc
<dholbach> norsetto: talked to him :)
<StevenK> Or sudo pbuilder build package.dsc | tee logfile.txt
<norsetto> dholbach: :-) should I update the reception list?
<dholbach> norsetto: already done
<TheMuso> StevenK: Yeah that too.
<pwnguin> i see a few with I: Using pkgname logfile
<norsetto> dholbach: bloody german efficiency .....
<pwnguin> not quite sure how they managed that
* dholbach hugs norsetto
<proppy> norsetto: are you still a motu-mentoring-receptionist ?
<dholbach> norsetto: I'm so happy you're a MOTU now
* norsetto hugs the Master
<norsetto> proppy: of course, THEY won't get rid of me easily
<proppy> norsetto: Let's mail you so :)
<proppy> I'll be happy to have you as a mentor, but I guess that's not really my choice
<pwnguin> when anyone gets a chance, I'd appreaciate a look at bug 144389
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 144389 in desmume "Upstream version 0.7.3 available" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144389
<norsetto> proppy: well, let me get used being a motu first, and we have quite a number of good mentors already available
<proppy> norsetto: mailed
<proppy> norsetto: is ScottK a mentor ?
<nil> hi!
* nil is preparing a package with binaries and a common lib
* nil finally solved the soname problems
<nil> i still have a question....
<nil> should I install /lib/foo.so.1.2 and add the links? or is there an automatic tool for that?
<nil> I mean, a tool to rename /lib/foo.so to /lib/foo.so.1.2 accordinf to the soname, and add the links /lib/foo.so.1 and /lib/foo.so
<nil> (/usr/lib/, in fact....)
<pwnguin> is REVU still alive?
<TheMuso> pwnguin: Yes.
<pwnguin> some of the documentation suggests REVU2 is going to replace it
<TheMuso> Well this is why we are looking to clean up the docs.
<Fujitsu> That's a few millenia away, I suspect.
<pwnguin> fun
<pwnguin> well i should get some sleep
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Come now. You sound like ScottK.
<Kamping_Kaiser> is there any obvious reason this line causes a .config script to break?
<Kamping_Kaiser> RAW=`dpkg --get-selections mediawiki1.\* | grep -v math | egrep 'mediawiki1.7|mediawiki1.9'`
<Kamping_Kaiser> i cant see anything wrong per se, but thats the last line that executes
<Fujitsu> StevenK: He has largely replaced me for this cycle, but he's leaving, so I need to get back into gear.
<huats> I am having a look at packages with unmet dependencies...
<huats> I have spotted that a package called iceweasel-torbutton, is depending on iceweasel... and of course there is no iceweasel
<huats> can I simply make it depend on firefox ?
<pkern> There's a bug open about that.
<huats> pkern: I'll have a look...
<huats> pkern: thanks
<pkern> huats: 137513
<pkern> huats: You probably have to tweak the package to install the files into the correct directories, too.
<huats> pkern: I'll have a look
<fernando> moin all
<TheMuso> dholbach: /c
<TheMuso> dholbach: sorry, :)
<ScottK> Good morning all.
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi mate
<ScottK> Heya Kamping_Kaiser
<Fujitsu> Hi ScottK.
<Kamping_Kaiser> ScottK, how goes?
<ScottK> Could be better.  It could be worse.
<Kamping_Kaiser> the wikimedia install bug is driving me nuts. getting some good help from bash though.
<zul> morning
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi
<Kamping_Kaiser> might head back tomorrow, hopefully with a fix. later.
<highvoltage> how much of make should I learn for MOTU'ing? should I know and understand everything in http://www.gnu.org/software/make/manual/make.html ?
<Hobbsee> highvoltage: based on hte fact that i'm a core dev, and know almost zilch?
<Hobbsee> highvoltage: you can probably pick it up as you need it
<broonie> Unless upstream are doing so you probably want to avoid anything complicated anyway on the basis that other people need to be able to understand what you've written.
<highvoltage> Hobbsee: shew, I was just about to work through that
<highvoltage> Hobbsee: I guess I'll mark that for 'later' then :)
<Hobbsee> hehe :)
<highvoltage> from what I've read so far, it certaibly seems handy knowing a bit about make
<highvoltage> Hobbsee: do you know if becoming a motu has specific requirements? or is it still a bit fuzzy?
<Hobbsee> highvoltage: you need to know what you're doing, obviously
<Hobbsee> highvoltage: to have gotten a fair bit of stuff uploaded, to have your patches, debdiffs, etc, right
<Hobbsee> highvoltage: to not propose to upload crap during freezes
<Hobbsee> highvoltage: etc
<highvoltage> aah
<highvoltage> Hobbsee: thanks, that gives me a good idea
<Hobbsee> highvoltage: basically, i'ts that we have the impression that your'e trustworthy to upload, adn wont upload crap.
<highvoltage> I've been making packages for a while, not for Ubuntu,ut I haven't worked with patches and debdiffs before
<Hobbsee> and will actually follow freezes and such, so as not to break the archive.
<Hobbsee> the details of that, however, are somewhat fuzzy.  *shrug*
<Hobbsee> highvoltage: neat :)
* highvoltage respects freezes
<Hobbsee> you'll learn it
<highvoltage> Hobbsee: thanks for the pointers
<Hobbsee> no problem
<norsetto> evening Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hiya norsetto
<Hobbsee> welcome to u-u-s btw
<imbrandon> highvoltage: always good to look at the mailing archive and wiki pages for others that applied
<highvoltage> imbrandon: ah yes, good idea
<highvoltage> hey norsetto
<imbrandon> ;)
<zul> hey imbrandon
<imbrandon> heya guys
<norsetto> highvoltage: hi ghvoltage :-)
<proppy> hi
<hendrixski> Is there some good reading material on data-only packages?
<hendrixski> hello?
<Hobbsee> hi
<RainCT> hi
<hendrixski> I'm trying to figure out how to package some data stuff ...
* Hobbsee has no idea, sorry.
<RainCT> does somebody know where PGP keys are stored? :P
<Hobbsee> although i'm presuming something like foo-data packages would be a good thing to look at
<Hobbsee> RainCT: ~/.gnupg, most likely.
<hendrixski> Hobbsee, I thought the same thing... but they're all bundled packages... like miro has miro-data included, and I can't figure out what it is that makes it tick
<Hobbsee> RAOF: poke
<RainCT> Hobbsee: thanks :)
<ivoks> hendrixski: what's the problem?
<RainCT> hendrixski: there's a dependency to the data package
<ivoks> you want to package two packages?
<hendrixski> ivoks, RainCT, yeah in the one I'm looking at as an example : debian/control file hsa both the data and the regular package named in it
<hendrixski> one is miro... the other is miro-data
<ivoks> right
<hendrixski> and I was hoping to recreate a data-only package to suppliment something
<ivoks> well, it's easy
<hendrixski> but from just looking at the package itself, it's not apparent to me how to do that
<ivoks> there is miro-data.install file in debian/
<ivoks> all directories listed in that file go to miro-data
<RainCT> right
<ivoks> and all direcotries listed in miro.install go to miro package
<hendrixski> ivoks, yup, then what part of the script reads that miro-data.install and decides which files to isntall in those directories?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<RainCT> hendrixski: so you want a standalone -data package?
<geser> Hi bddebian!
<bddebian> Heya geser
<ivoks> hendrixski: debian/rules read that files
<hendrixski> RainCT, yeah, basically... something to suppliment another thing I'm doing... as a hobby
<geser> hendrixski: dh_install reads the the install files and gets called from debian/rules
<ivoks> hendrixski: if you haven't done any packaging till now, miro isn't the easiest one to learn on :D
<ivoks> miro uses cdbs, so it's kind of crypted for beginners
* hendrixski has done a very small amount of personal-hobby packaging
<hendrixski> ivoks, oh,  Ok... yeah, I probably wouldn't be doing cdbs :-/  is there an easier package you would recommend I look at?
<ivoks> um... wifi-radar?:D
<RainCT> hendrixski: If I undestand you correctly then you just need to call dh_install on the rules file and have a <packagename.install> listing all files (you can use *) and where they should go
<Lamego> I actually find cdbs easier for beginners
<RainCT> uh.. what's needed to do in order that debuild works with seahorse?
<StevenK> Use Gutsy
<ivoks> Lamego: but then you have people packaging packages without even knowing what they are doing
<hendrixski> RainCT, cool, so then is there somewhere else I have to specify which files go into which of the directores listed in packagename.install?
<geser> RainCT: or lookup that old bug in devscripts which contains a workaround
<Lamego> ivoks, not really, expanding simple makefile rules into some tens of lines to do a simple "file install" does not improve most people understanding
<RainCT> ok, thx
<Lamego> but well, this is my oppinion :)
* RainCT agrees with ivoks
<hendrixski> alrighty, well, I'll look through the wifi radar thing and if I don't figure it out I'll come back with more questions
<hendrixski> thanks
<Lamego> not to mention the differences for mentoring, if you provide me a 4 lines debian/rules I can check your packaging in a few minutes , if you do that with a 40 lines debian/rules, I will take much more, even if they do exactly the same :)
<RainCT> that's true, though :P
<Lamego> if you want to understand, you read, there is a cdbs documentation, and you can read the cdbs rules
<Lamego> what I agree with, is that, with cdbs, people which do not want to understand how a makefile works, can easily package
<Lamego> anyway, this is an eternal debate about education practices :)
<Hobbsee> long live cdbs!
<zul> boo
<hendrixski> isn't it better to lower the barriers to entry for new contributors?
<ivoks> Lure: looks like things are getting better on the installer front :D
<Lure> ivoks: have seen that bug was closed
<bddebian> cdbs should die a horrible death! :)
<ivoks> yeah
<Lure> ivoks: we got some negative feedback due to that bug in slovenia too
<imbrandon> hendrixski: untill the barrier becomes too low and no one understands the underlying system anymore
<ivoks> bddebian: and should be replaced with cdbs2? :)
<bddebian> hendrixski: Why so we can lower the quality too? :-)
<Lure> ivoks: btw, nice catch
<zul> imbrandon: then you would have ebuilds ;)
<ivoks> Lure: it took almost a year :/
<imbrandon> zul: hehe
<jussi01> CDBS ftw!
<Lure> ivoks: I know, but it is nice it will be in beta
<ivoks> yeah
<zul> imbrandon: not there is anything wrong with that
<hendrixski> lower barrier to entry != lower quality
<hendrixski> it means more eyes for Linus' law
<imbrandon> hendrixski: in theory yes, in reality more true
<Lamego> well, you need to find the balance
<Lamego> and the balance is not about "keep it hard" :P
<ivoks> Lure: from the start i knew the problem was with 'any', but didn't figure it out why it still builds with 'any', despite the fact there is no 'any' in symbols any more :D
<ivoks> turns out those symbols there are just to make source bigger :D
<Lure> ivoks: ;-)
<Kaleo> Hello
<bddebian> Lamego: It's not about keeping it hard but people still need to understand how things actually work.  I've been doing this stuff of a few years now and there is still TONS that I don't know.
<hendrixski> who started the entire difficult=educational myth anyways?
<hendrixski> documentation=educational, yes .... doing-it = educational,  yes... but difficult just equals difficult
<bddebian> hendrixski: Some things are difficult, that's life.  I can't tell you how many "VB Programmers" I know that make a living with VB without the slightest bit of true programming knowledge/understanding
<Lamego> bddebian, I agree, but if you introduce  people to a hard learning curve, you don't have much people willing to understand
<bddebian> Easy breeds complacency
<bddebian> No one reads documentation
<Lamego> is is like that those software approaches of "#Please remove this line to be able to start the program"
<Lamego> like it is some certificate that by removing a comment, you have read the configuration file, and will know how to use the software
<hendrixski> bddebian, even VB programmers read documentation... the rest of them become stories on worsethanfailure.com
<Lamego> sometimes they even provide some other lazy unsecure default, but what matters, is that the line was uncommented :P
<Lamego> hey, I have been a VB programmer :P
<RainCT> don't speak about VB, you remember that I've to learn it at school :(   lol
<bddebian> hendrixski: Usually only to steal the chunks of code to make something work :-)
<hendrixski> Lamego, and you probably read documentation then as well
<Lamego> sure, I just was able to develop faster (yes, I am not saying better)
<imbrandon> oop time for the dvr'd Dr. Who  i missed, bbiab
<Lamego> and I had to read a lot more to program in C/C++ :P
<Kaleo> Do you think it is still possible to get a package synced from Debian that is not yet in Gutsy at all?
<bddebian> Kaleo: Unlikely but you can file a UVFe for it if you want
<Kaleo> bddebian: I would rather save myself this cost if the probability of it being accepted is very little and come back for Gutsy+1
<RainCT> (and the teacher doesn't even know what a loop is xDD)
<Kaleo> bddebian: I am referring to two packages for which requests have been filed two months ago (bugs #128473 and #128205)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 128473 in elisa "import python-lirc depends from Debian" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/128473
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 128205 in elisa "import python-coherence depends from Debian" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/128205
<bddebian> Kaleo: Hmm, that's odd.  Were they ever confirmed by anyone or assigned to Ubuntu Archive?
<Lamego> elisa is an interesting package
<Kaleo> bddebian: I do not think so
<bddebian> Kaleo: Well that sucks.  It's pretty unlikely it would get in then but you could try a UVFe.
<Kaleo> bddebian: thanks for looking into it, I'll try.
<bddebian> Is there some quick and dirty way to get shlibs without pulling the source?
<ScottK> Can't you run dh_shlibs (or whatever it's called)?
<jeromeg> ScottK: thx for the ack !
<bddebian> ScottK: I mean I need to see what shlibs a package provides.  If that makes any sense
<ScottK> Ah.  OK.  I understand.
<ScottK> Nevermind
<geser> bddebian: is it ok for you to download the deb?
<bddebian> yeah that would be one way, I just thought ajmitch had shown me some way to do it
<geser> dpkg-deb -I <the deb> shlibs
<bddebian> aye, thx
<bddebian> OK another question. :-)  Is there a "packaging" tag?
<geser> needs-packaging
<bddebian> No, this requestor wants a -lib binary from an existing package :-)
<geser> ah
<bddebian> Well I guess that could be needs-packaging
<geser> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Tags
<geser> "packaging" doesn't match fully
<bddebian> Aye. Hmm
<ScottK> proppy: To answer your question from a while ago about mentoring: I don't participate in the formal mentoring program and so have no mentees assigned.  I'm glad to help anyone out and answer questions here as I have time.
<bddebian> Anyone want to tell me what this does and how I can make it work with dash? :-)  : > "${FILENAME/file/type_symlink}" ?
<ion_> bddebian: Does FILENAME always contain the string file?
<ion_> If that is the case, "${FILENAME%file*}type_symlink${FILENAME#*file}" comes to mind.
<ion_> If using sed is not a problem, "$(echo "$FILENAME" | sed s/file/type_symlink/)"
<pkern> soren: I did some bug triage on network-manager-openvpn. Do you have code available for pull support?
<soren> pkern: No. It turned out not to be quite as easy as I though.
<pkern> soren: Guessed so. Ok.
<bddebian> ion_: I'll try that, thanks!
<pkern> soren: Do you want to stay assigned to that bug?
<soren> pkern: You can have it, if you want it :)
<pkern> soren: I would rather unassign it first and then have a look at it later. (: But I will keep track of it.
<norsetto> scottK: hi scott
<ScottK> Hi norsetto
<proppy> ScottK: nice
<pwnguin> anyone know what time of day siretart is normally active?
<ScottK> pwnguin: He's in .de.  IIRC Usually evening his time.
<norsetto> proppy: did you get my message today? I'm not sure as I had some net trouble
<pwnguin> lets see, add seven hours....
<pwnguin> kinda wish that irc bot user analysis now =/
<pwnguin> so if i want to bring a package directly from debian to ubuntu with no changes, the big things to check are 1) changelog, 2) Section to universe and 3) maintainers field, right?
<zul> uh so who are the candidates re: sispoty's email
<Kopfgeldjaeger> what version should i choose for a svn version? package-2.4~svn20070924 ? or with the revision number?
<geser> package-2.4~svn20070924-0ubuntu1
<Kopfgeldjaeger> geser: ok. any change if that package neither exists in debian nor ubuntu? and if its already in the debian/ubuntu repos, but was rewritten? (like my avidemux package :d )
<geser> still the same
<Kopfgeldjaeger>  ok, thanks
<geser> -0ubuntu1 means that this is the first ubuntu change to the zero revision in Debian, which means that Debian hasn't this package or version yet
<Kopfgeldjaeger> ok, thats interesting.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> does ubuntu accept non-final packages (well, it did so with gaim beta in feisty for example)? and, let's dream, my packaging is ok, compiles under all architectures, how could i try to get it into ubuntu?
<ScottK> Kopfgeldjaeger: Yes.  RIght now though no as we are near release (not accepting new packages at all).
<Kopfgeldjaeger> yes, i know that with the newPkgsUniverseFreeze
<ScottK> OK.  Just making sure.
<ScottK> Generally it's not a problem.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> i think till heardyPackagesFreeze i will get this .svn/entries file out of the deb package *g
<bddebian> Hrm, what sudo command do we use for desktop files that could be KDE or gnome?
<Kopfgeldjaeger> any idea why this one .svn/entries file is in the changelog? or, how to avoid the svn files from going into the orig.tar.gz at all?
<bddebian> find ./ -name *.svn |xargs rm
<Kopfgeldjaeger> ah, ok, in the .svn/entries file is the last checkout timestaamp
<Kopfgeldjaeger> bddebian: is this the usual way?
<bddebian> If you are producing your own tarball it is as good a way as any
<Kopfgeldjaeger> ok, thanks to you all. good night
<tristanbob> what is the procedure for getting a new package (not in debian or ubuntu) accepted into universe?
<tristanbob> and of course debian as well
<ScottK> tristanbob: First thing is we aren't accepting new packages right now because we are near a release.
<ScottK> !REVU | tristanbob
<ubotu> tristanbob: REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<tristanbob> ScottK: of course - this will be 8.04
<ScottK> We are near release of 7.10 and so 8.04 is the next chance for a new package.
<cfalco> When do you plan to start again reviews of packages in the revu?
<ajmitch> morning
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<bddebian> cfalco: Never if we are lucky ;-)
<ScottK> cfalco: MOTUs are free to review anytime, but don't expect much at all until after Gutsy is released and the Hardy repositories are open.
<ScottK> Afternoon ajmitch
<cfalco> ScottK: just as I thought
<cfalco> I should stop lame Motus for reviewing until gutsy release, right? ;)
<ScottK> cfalco: If they want to, there is no harm.  No reason you couldn't have your package reviewed, advocated, and ready for upload the day the Hardy repos open.  Don't hold your breath though.
<cfalco> ScottK: when is gutsy due for release?
<norsetto> morning ajmitch
<ScottK> October 18 IIRC.
<ScottK> Usually the repos for the new release follow by a week or two or three.
<siretart> pwnguin: from time to time...
<norsetto> cfalco: in any case it seems your package is not far off the spot....
<ScottK> siretart: The reason he's looking for you is he filed a UVFe for desmume and since you set yourself as maintainer on the package, I thought he should see what you thought about it.
<siretart> oh, I haven't looked at desmume for quite some time, so I don't think I'm qualified to answer that at all!
<cfalco> norsetto: my congratulations, you're now a ubuntu developer, aren't you? :)
<cfalco> ScottK: thank you! :)
<bddebian> Oh yeah, congrats norsetto
<bddebian> Now, get to work ;-P
<norsetto> cfalco: yeah, so they say, one day I might believe it too :-)
* norsetto goes back to work
<cfalco> norsetto: now I know who to nag for help & hints ;)
<norsetto> cfalco: yes, bddebian is good for that .....
<cfalco> :)
<bddebian> hah, hardly :-(
<norsetto> cfalco: just don't mention the b word when he is around, or if you do be careful with your shoes .....
<bddebian> heh
<ajmitch> bread?
<cfalco> beer?
<norsetto> cfalco, ajmitch: no, its only 3 letters long, and has no vowels
<geser> norsetto: is the second letter a 'z' and the last a 'r'?
<bddebian> Anyone with KDE feel like doing a quick test for me?
* geser looks now for a hideout
* norsetto take off his shoes
<norsetto> bddebian: how quick is quick?
<ajmitch> bddebian: no
<cfalco> bddebian: sorry, gnome here :(
<bddebian> norsetto: Just need to see if the changes I made to guarddogs .desktop file work
<norsetto> bddebian: do you have a deb available already?
<bddebian> Yep
<ajmitch> geser: your upload won
<norsetto> bddebian: could I have a link then? (don't say yep, give me the link .....)
<bddebian> http://www.bddebian.com/packages/ubuntu/guarddog/
<norsetto> bddebian: hehe, give me the source then ;-)
<norsetto> bddebian: amd64 here ....
<bddebian> Doh
<bddebian> norsetto: There now
<pkern> soren: Could you review a new network-manager-openvpn upload? (The diff is not tiny, though.) http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=300
<norsetto> bddebian: what should I check once I finish building?
<bddebian> norsetto: If it installs and if it puts an menu entry in
<bddebian> I put the Category as Network
<cfalco> time to go... good night! :)
<bddebian> Gnight cfalco
<bddebian> norsetto: Any luck?  I gotta head home :-(
<norsetto> bddebian: installing right now
<bddebian> norsetto: Thanks man, sorry to be a PITA
<norsetto> bddebian: Unable to start guarddog firewall - /etc/rc.firewall does not exist
<bddebian> Hrm.  Was there at least the menu entry?
<norsetto> bddebian: yes, nice puppy, running now
<norsetto> bddebian: looks good
<bddebian> Thanks sir, appreciate the time!!
<norsetto> bddebian: np
<bddebian> norsetto: Thanks again
<bddebian> Later folks
<Mez> \sh something wrong with jabberme ?
<proppy> norsetto: did you ack my mail ?
<norsetto> proppy: didn't get it yet, when was it sent?
<proppy> norsetto: Date: 24 Sep 2007 12:54:18 +0200
<proppy> norsetto: maybe gmail qualified it as a spam
<norsetto> proppy: ok, must be in the spam box then, to which address was it sent?
<proppy> norsetto: cesare.tirabassi@gmail.com
<norsetto> proppy: unspammed, but the email was not really needed for that; can you tell us a bit more about you and what you want to do? If python is your field, I might have a mentor for you
<norsetto> proppy: still there? gotta go now.
<proppy> norsetto: yep
<proppy> norsetto: python is definitly my field
<norsetto> proppy: ok, I will get back to you soon
<proppy> norsetto: on the wiki mentor page I was missing a mail template for this mentor application thing
<proppy> norsetto: but I understand I should have been more specific
<proppy> norsetto: thanks
<norsetto> proppy: if you don't mind waiting a week or so I might have a very good mentor for you?
<proppy> norsetto: np I'm not in a rush at all
<proppy> norsetto: I just reminded about the process, once you were annonced as a new ubuntu developers
<proppy> norsetto: you are my model ! :)
<norsetto> proppy: I don't envy you then ....
<proppy> norsetto: me neither, I don't envy mysef
<proppy> norsetto: thanks for processing my request though
<proppy> norsetto: do you want me to send a new one with more details
<norsetto> proppy: duty obliges ;-)
<norsetto> proppy: as you wish, the mentor should decide on the basis of that, so the more he knows the better (usually) is
<norsetto> time to hit the pillow, g'night all
#ubuntu-motu 2007-09-25
<zul> evening
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bddebian> Gads, we need python-gammu synced from Debian but I'm way to over UVFe requests.. :-(
<StevenK> bddebian: Rationale?
<StevenK> bddebian: And are there any Ubuntu changes?
<bddebian> StevenK: wammu was brought in but needs python-gammu >= 0.21 and we currently have 0.20
<bddebian> No, no changes, straight sync
<bddebian> Though I haven't test built it yet
<StevenK> bddebian: Test build and install it, and I'll talk to pitti about it.
<bddebian> OK
<bddebian> Fruck, it needs libgammu-dev >= 1.12.. Grrr
<begert> anyone here use kubuntu?
* nixternal does
<begert> can you use the swarm screensaver?
<nixternal> dunno, let me try
<begert> I have fiesty on my desktop and gutsy on my laptop
<begert> I can select swarm and Test it in both, but it doesn't seem to actually work in either
<nixternal> yes I can...but I am on gutsy
<begert> I have that no my laptop, does the screensaver actually start for you though?
<nixternal> yes
<begert> *on
<begert> hmmm, strange....its odd that that is the only screensaver broke on both my installs
<RAOF> LongPointyStick: Prod
<ajmitch> dangerous move
<RAOF> Heh.
<RAOF> Anyway, today's alternate CD very nearly works :)
<Fujitsu> RAOF: What of it doesn't work?
<RAOF> LVM-on-crypt
<RAOF> pitti's bug is not restricted to auto-partition :)
<Fujitsu> Ah, well, I'm using yesterday's... it's not particularly difficult to stick break=mount at the end.
<tonyyarusso> RAOF: does gutsy support encrypted partitions from the installer?
<RAOF> Yes.
<tonyyarusso> yay
<tonyyarusso> I wonder why the spec for that didn't show any activity or status.
<RAOF> This laptop is running such a setup right now.
<tonyyarusso> I guess it wasn't necessary since upstream d-i had it?
<StevenK> tonyyarusso: It still required promotion of stuff from universe to main and other fun things
<tonyyarusso> StevenK: hmm, odd then
<pwnguin> ScottK: any work on desmume uve?
<pwnguin> err
<pwnguin> word
<pwnguin> freudian slip
<ScottK> Anything in the bug?
<pwnguin> is it waiting on siertart?
<ScottK> From my perspective yes, but there are other motu-uvf that might feel differently.
<ScottK> He was on earlier and I mentioned your interest.
<pwnguin> I saw that. He also said he was unqualified to answer =/
<ScottK> I'm inclined not to approve it then.  It's a big jump to make this late.  Others may feel differntly.
<pwnguin> fair enough
<pwnguin> what exactly is the worry though?
<pwnguin> neither version is close to perfect
<ScottK> It's a big version jump late in the game, so I worry about bugs causing regression from what Feisty had.
<pwnguin> the activity in the bug tracker is near empty, likely because nobody expects this to work.
<pwnguin> what feisty has barely works. what's in my ppa barely works better -- its sort of the start of emulators
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> That's good to know.
<ScottK> Please put that in the bug and then let me know.
<pwnguin> that it works better, or that console emulators are often buggy?
<ScottK> That it works better, but is still an early release that's not expected to be fully functional either, so regression shouldn't be a big worry.
<ScottK> That sort of thing.
<pwnguin> i see
<bddebian> Gnight folks
<RAOF> Night bddebian
<pwnguin> is popcon reliable at all?
<RAOF> Not as far as I've heard.
<pwnguin> in what way is it unreliable?
<pwnguin> actually, the changelog in the debian package has siretart mentioned as recently as september 4th
<minghua> It's voluntary, and not installed/enabled by default, so it's by no means representative.
<pwnguin> so its working as intended
<pwnguin> but people often use the results in unintended ways
<minghua> So we are talking about the reliability of the software instead of the data gathered?
<pwnguin> well, ive heard people tell me its _broken_
<pwnguin> i agree the data collected currently would be biased
<minghua> It won't surprise me if the package in ubuntu is broken.
<minghua> At least the website, popcon.ubuntu.com, is still half broken.
<pwnguin> orly?
<minghua> It surprises me that ubuntu's popcon site claims more than three times larger installation base than debian's, though.
<minghua> pwnguin: Yeah, click the README and FAQ link, for example.
<pwnguin> cute
<pwnguin> well, i recall one release asking people if they wanted to participate in popcon
<pwnguin> i dont think debian does that
<minghua> Debian does since etch.
<pwnguin> i havent installed debian since woody
<pwnguin> =/
<pwnguin> longest stable evar
<pwnguin> near the end people started making debian shirts that said "good things come to those who wait" -- I'll never know as i tried out ubuntu and never looked back about six months before sarge released
<minghua> pwnguin: Interesting story.  I think I started using Ubuntu roughly the same time as you did, but my main distro is Debian now.
<pwnguin> it was wierd, seeing xorg and gnome move quickly
<tonyyarusso> pwnguin: did you run stable releases or dev?
<pwnguin> heh
<pwnguin> i ran stable for a couple months
<pwnguin> then my friend enlightened me
<pwnguin> hellish upgrade though
<pwnguin> 1.4 -> 2.0 i think
<pwnguin> still, even unstable ran behind
<pwnguin> also, it's pretty nice to be able to run a relatively modern desktop without worrying who screwed up an upload to unstable
<pwnguin> now i run gutsy voluntarily, so it couldnt have been all that bad ;)
<StevenK> Where is KDE's Prefered Applications settings done?
<StevenK> I'm sick of Thunderbird opening Konquerer when I click on a link, when I have a perfectly good Firefox running.
<minghua> Why would thunderbird observe KDE's preferred applications setting?
<minghua> I would expect thunderbird can set that by itself.
<StevenK> I just thought that.
<RAOF> Oh.  There's a trap for the incautious (ie: me).  The rsync command I used to backup my $HOME didn't include any hidden directories.  Arse.
<TheMuso> RAOF: heh
<StevenK> IE: The ones that start with '.'? :-)
<jdong> RAOF: what kind of rsync command didn't?
<jdong> rsync -avx --progress ~/. /destination/. is what I always use
<RAOF> jdong: rsync -avxP * destination:Backup/
<jdong> oh.
<jdong> the * does you in.
<jdong> doesn't match dotfiles
<jdong> you should've used . instead
<jdong> that would've recursively did everything :(
<RAOF> Indeed.
<jdong> sorry you had to suffer through that
<RAOF> Eh, not much of a biggie.
<RAOF> Where's mr telepathy?  Is he aware that telepathy-butterfly just doesn't work?
<Amaranth> hrm, i think i messed up my finger
<RAOF> It's no longer scanning correctly?
<Amaranth> it was stiff so i popped it, now it's all tingly
<Amaranth> makes it weird to type
<RAOF> That's not a good prize.
<TheMuso> Wow. I seem to be getting a few timeout errors today with LP.
<superm1> me too.
<superm1> TheMuso, on edge?
<superm1> or production
<TheMuso> superm1: Edge, I am a beta tester.
<superm1> okay me too.
<superm1> perhaps just a lot of beta users right now then :)
<wintermu1e> can anyone offer some help as to how I would go about submitting a patch to the right people for the network-manager-vpnc package?
<superm1> hi wintermu1e file a bug against the source package
<superm1> and attach the patch to it
<wintermu1e> do I need an account to file a bug?
<superm1> yeah
<superm1> its a pretty quick and painless process to do though
<wintermu1e> where would the svn/cvs be for network-manager-vpnc?
<superm1> http://svn.gnome.org/svn/NetworkManager/branches/NETWORKMANAGER_0_6_0_RELEASE/vpn-daemons/vpnc
<superm1> according to debian/copyright, that is where its obtained from
<wintermu1e> oh nice, didn't think it would be in the copright
<lifeless> debian/copyright is really debian/metadata
<superm1> soren is the main person to talk about network-manager-vpnc i would gander though if you want someone experienced with its packaging to look over your patch
<wintermu1e> well, actually I haven't written the patch yet.  I wanted to see if its already been fixed in svn first and find out who to talk to
<superm1> oh okay
<superm1> well if its fixed in svn, file a bug still and note that its fixed in svn
<superm1> and one of us motu folk will be glad to pull the patch in
<pwnguin> but do make sure you look at the main branch
<pwnguin> and not the release tag we pulled for the current version
<superm1> yeah, that is just the branch we pulled from
<superm1> hi asisak
<pwnguin> "hmm, they havent done a damn thing in six months!"
<asisak> Good morning
<wintermu1e> not sure what you mean by "the branch we pulled from"
<superm1> hi asisak
<pwnguin> svn is often used to keep "branches" of code
<asisak> Hey superm1
<pwnguin> you branch the current development tree, and call it like version 0.6.0
<pwnguin> thats what the current version probably used
<wintermu1e> yeah, usually svn calls those tags
<pwnguin> ah yea
<pwnguin> well i noticed branches in the url
<wintermu1e> ahh, right
<wintermu1e> the version I have installed on my local system is 0.6.4svn2422-0ubuntu
<pwnguin> well if you're interested in finding patches, you should probably look for their main development branch / tags
<wintermu1e> hmm, so you're saying that ubuntu uses a branch of the 6_0_0 branch in gnome svn
<pwnguin> thats what id surmise from the url superm1 dropped
<superm1> well unless the person updating the package didn't update debian/copyright
<superm1> which is very possible
<superm1> reading the Changelog shipped with it, i see a Bump version to 0.6.4
<superm1> so it probably following the 6_4_0 tag instead in gnome svn
<superm1> and debian/copyright just needs to be updated
<wintermu1e> hmm, yeah, so if its fixed in the head of gnome svn what are the chances of it getting into ubuntu?
<pwnguin> depends on the severity of the bug, the size and quality of the patch,
<superm1> if its a fairly uninvasive patch, its still possible
<superm1> yeah and what pwnguin said :)
<superm1> mornin dholbach
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> hey superm1!
<pwnguin> and whether its in main or universe
<superm1> it is in universe
<dholbach> how are y'all doing?
<superm1> i'm a wee bit tired, but still trying to work on coursework for tomorrow, so sleep can wait :)
<ScottK> Good morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey ScottK
<dholbach> superm1: good luck with that :)
<ScottK> dholbach: I hope you considered my reply to your Wiki reorg mail yesterday constructive.
<dholbach> ScottK: yes, I do - thanks a lot for that; I'll reply to it later
<ScottK> No rush.  With any luck I'm going to be soon.
<asisak> Hey ScottK
<StevenK> ScottK: Would you mind replying to the UVFe for that emulator?
<dholbach> ScottK: you're going to be soon?
<StevenK> ScottK: The "What do I do now" mail.
<pwnguin> did i do it wrong?
<ScottK> pwnguin: What was the bug # again?
<ScottK> dholbach: I had some SSL certificates expire yesterday and the various CA cert signing options I currently beating me badly.  When I bend them to my will, I get to sleep.
<pwnguin> bug #144389
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 144389 in desmume "Upstream version 0.7.3 available" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144389
* ScottK looks
<dholbach> ScottK: ah ok... good luck with that then
<StevenK> openssl is a pain in the bum.
<ScottK> pwnguin: Did you see my question in the bug?
<pwnguin> I hadn't yet
<pwnguin> I assume it does
<ScottK> Why?
<pwnguin> i didnt touch rules
<pwnguin> just brought straight from debian
<ScottK> What did you touch?
<pwnguin> changelog and control
<pwnguin> specifically Maintianters and Section
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> Looks like it's a straight sync.
<pwnguin> was there a script i could have used to do that?
<ScottK> If you knew it was a sync, you could have used requestsync -s to ask for it and have all the needed info.  You'd have still needed to add the UVFe stuff manually.  dholbach has a ppaput script that I think might have simplified it for you.  These are in the ubuntu-dev-tools package.
<soren> wintermu1e: What's the patch (for n-m-vpnc)?
<wintermu1e> soren: well, I was checking to see if the issue was fixed in gnome, cvs but it doesn't look like it has
<wintermu1e> there's actually a couple issues I'm dealing with here, and it looks like I'll have to write my own patch
<wintermu1e> but I'm getting an odd log message which is making me think I don't have the write source
<soren> wintermu1e: Alright. I used to be fairly familiar with the code, so just ask if you need any pointers.
<wintermu1e> soren: perhaps you've seen in deamon.log the log message "NetworkManager: file nm-vpn-service.c: line 459 (nm_vpn_se
<wintermu1e> rvice_stage3_connect_cb): assertion failed: (service != NULL)"
<wintermu1e> the problem is that line 459 has no assertion
<wintermu1e> and ha nothing to do with the service code
<wintermu1e> ahh, nm, its in NetworkManager, they have the exact same file names, so I got confused
<soren> wintermu1e: :)
<wintermu1e> soren: how do I find what compile time options were used in the ubuntu/debian builds?
<soren> wintermu1e: You could look at the build logs on launchpad?
<proppy> hiya
* proppy hugs dholbach
* dholbach hugs proppy back
<wintermu1e> hmm, where are the build logs?
<minghua> wintermu1e: click "show publishing history", then click the version number you want.
<asisak> See you later
<wintermu1e> hmm, don't see "show publishing history", I'm looking at the project page
<soren> wintermu1e: Don't. Look at the package page.
<soren> wintermu1e: Which package is it?
<wintermu1e> NetworkManager
<soren> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager
<wintermu1e> hmm, ok I'm there, but I don't see where the logs are
<pwnguin> cuz that would make sennse
<pwnguin> click on show publishing history
<wintermu1e> yeah, did that and selected the version I wanted
<pwnguin> you now see a list of packages built and platforms
<pwnguin> click on your platform to retrieve the logs
<wintermu1e> yeah, selected the one I wanted from there too
<pwnguin> gutsy i386?
<wintermu1e> feisty, don't see anything about arch though
<wintermu1e> ahh, got it
<wintermu1e> thanks pwnguin, soren, and superm1.  I'll probably be coming back tomorrow, gotta get some sleep.
<superm1> night wintermu1e
<ScottK> I finally beat openssl into submission and got the certs tested/deployed, so I'm going to bed.
<ScottK> Good night all.
<pwnguin> good night and thanks!
<dholbach> night ScottK
<huats> night ScottK
<norsetto> morning all
<proppy> 'ning
<pwnguin> interesting. im not sure, but i think fedora's technical committee decided to drop all kernel modules not in the tree
<TheMuso> pwnguin: Do you mean the tree as in mainline kernel
<pwnguin> yea
<TheMuso> Interesting decision.
<pwnguin> im trying to find the discussion
<pwnguin> it was apparently voted 8-1
<TheMuso> I like what the Ubuntu kernel guys do. Stay close to mainline for the kernel itself, and have another package with extra drivers.
<pwnguin> https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-September/msg01949.html
<pwnguin> well
<pwnguin> the extra drivers package is pain and a half
<pwnguin> esp if you need it
<TheMuso> pwnguin: Yeah I am sure it could be annoying for some.
<pwnguin> they use the phrase "add-on"
<pwnguin> but im not sure if they mean "not installed by default" or "maintained out of linus' tree"
<pwnguin> likely the latter
<TheMuso> Getting it all into the mainline kernel certainly does make sense however.
<pwnguin> maybe
<pwnguin> their basic theory is that if mainline wont accept it then clearly fedora has no business shipping it
<TheMuso> Right.
<pwnguin> the impression i get is that they wont be pushing things into mainline as much as kicking things out of fedora
<Fujitsu> Has Canonical adopted enough DDs lately?
<pwnguin> they havent run out yet?
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: heh
<pwnguin> i figured by now they're down to people in "fuck ubuntu" shirts
<Fujitsu> pwnguin: Mhm.
<pwnguin> its a bit silly though
<Fujitsu> pwnguin: How?
<pwnguin> when linus rejects a patch
<Fujitsu> Oh, not related, I see...
<pwnguin> his rationale is "go find a distro willing to nuture it for a while"
<Fujitsu> Not Fedora any more, I guess.
<pwnguin> maybe they'll fix tifm
<pwnguin> and i can write to SD again
<pwnguin> how does something like that work in edgy, but not feisty or gutsy?
<Fujitsu> Mine has worked since Edgy, died for a while in Feisty, but came back fairly soon.
<pwnguin> I wonder if wacom is in the kernel
<minghua> gettext tools are PITA.
* minghua just lost some translation work.
<minghua> Apparently VCS won't save you if you don't check in.  :-(
* Fujitsu whispers `Rosetta'
<lifeless> so RH used to have the -ac atree
<minghua> Hah.  At least gettext tools don't have connection problems.  ;-)
<lifeless> *tree*
<huats> norsetto: Hey
<huats> norsetto: How are you ?
* norsetto bows to the Most Onourobale Trainer Uats
* norsetto always had a problem with the letter h ....
<huats> norsetto: LOL
<proppy> norsetto: ack my new mail ?
* huats always laught when he sees the funny ideas of norsetto
<norsetto> huats: so, how many bugs did you squash today?
<norsetto> proppy: yes, lets wait unitl the mentor is back from holidays
<huats> norsetto: unfortunatly none... I am ashamed... I had/still have to be the plumber in the appartement where we are moving on sunday :-(
<norsetto> huats: ah, a nice apartment with view on the Garonne I hope ....
<huats> norsetto: I see you know my place :-) but you know I know yours too
<norsetto> huats: or one in Ramonville .....
<huats> norsetto: amazing
<proppy> norsetto: thanks
<proppy> norsetto: Was afraid of your spam filter
<huats> norsetto: how many times did you went in Toulouse ??? In fact I was living near ramonville right now, and we are moving to a place next to the garonne (but without the view :-()
<norsetto> proppy: np, I think it got triggered by the lenght of the email
<norsetto> huats: quite a lot :-)
<huats> norsetto: I can imagine that... (ok I had a look at your wiki page)
<norsetto> huats: infact, we even thought about moving there once
<proppy> norsetto: hope the later one provide the information you expected
<huats> norsetto: oh really ? that is really a nice place to live
<norsetto> proppy: yes, spot on
<norsetto> huats: it is indeed, who knows, maybe one day
<huats> norsetto: :-)
<huats> norsetto: but you are lucky, Rome is also very nice (at least for holidays)
<norsetto> huats: yes, for holidays
<norsetto> huats: we are lucky to live in the outskirts, 20 km from downtown ;-)
<Nafallo> Fujitsu, \sh: are any of you working on gajim?
<Fujitsu> Nafallo: I was presuming you would.
<huats> norsetto: ok... it is true that the downtime is a little messy :-) but it is also so beautiful....
<Nafallo> Fujitsu: I got a new and damn fast laptop know :-)
<Fujitsu> Nafallo: Yay! What kind?
<Nafallo> Fujitsu: I think thats answer enough ;-)
<Nafallo> Fujitsu: Lenovo R61i (NA01FUK)
<Nafallo> Fujitsu: I auth sudo with my fingerprint :-)
<norsetto> huats: we go there quite often actually, so for us is like if we are on a permanent holiday, but to live there is next to impossible
<huats> norsetto: I can understand that... It is true that we also found it very noisy
<norsetto> huats: and then there are all the bloody french tourists going around and making a lot of noise complaining about the noise :-)
* huats hides
<Fujitsu> Nafallo: Ah, nice, I like the R series.
<huats> norsetto: and I was not complaining, I was noticing :-)
<norsetto> huats: you see, my wife is french so she hates to see french tourists while in Rome (she talks in Roman to me then ...)
<huats> norsetto: to be honnest, I hate to see French people abroad too...
<norsetto> huats: the funny thing is that she complains because she says French are always complaining when abroad (but I think they complain too when at home....)
<norsetto> huats: the exact word she uses is "raleurs" ;-)
<huats> norsetto: she is absolutely right....
<huats> but you are also right....
<norsetto> huats: its certainly true about her father :-)
<huats> :-)
<proppy> norsetto: is you wife "raleuse" as well ?
<proppy> s/you/your
<norsetto> proppy: not at all actually
<proppy> norsetto: she must be half french then :)
<norsetto> proppy: he, I'm not entirely Italian either (I hate football ....)
<norsetto> huats: just read your answer in bug 108746
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 108746 in efax-gtk "no icon in kde menu" [Wishlist,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/108746
<norsetto> huats: the entry in the menu should be Applications/Network/File Transfer
<huats> norsetto: ok that was my idea... but I'd rather have a confirmation
<norsetto> huats: "having it patched offline" means with a patch system, I think you are just patching inline (ie. the source directly)?
<huats> norsetto: yep, I've patch the source directly... So you would prefer that I use debian/patches ?
<norsetto> huats: I prefer it, its much cleaner and traceable yes, and its a good exercise for you too :-)
<huats> norsetto: ok
<huats> norsetto: I will redo it so
<norsetto> huats: the comment about ~ppa3 wasn't that ~ppa2 is missing, but rather that we should publish it without the ~ppa
<huats> oh ok
<huats> still the same pb
<huats> I haven't understood the correct way of using the ~ppa for publishing ....
<huats> once I am happy with my ~ppa, I should create one without the ~ppa ?
<norsetto> huats: or just correct the debdiff
<huats> norsetto: ok
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> oops
* dholbach hugs TheMuso
* dholbach hugs huats_ and norsetto too
* norsetto hugs back dholbach
<dholbach> how are y'all doing?
<TheMuso> So there is nobody here who has a MOTU meeting time suggestion? I can't believe nobody really cares.
<norsetto> dholbach: great!
<TheMuso> dholbach: Well thanks. Just doing some UbuntuStudio bug hunting. :p
<dholbach> TheMuso: I'd like something that's not too late in the european friday; as I'll be on the road on the WE
<TheMuso> Or should I say, bug fixing.
<dholbach> TheMuso: but I did not want to get the MOTU Meeting blocked on me
<dholbach> TheMuso: neat-o - saw a bunch of your uploads
<TheMuso> dholbach: I can understand.
<dholbach> TheMuso: if you want, I can mention that in a reply to stimulate discussion?
<dholbach> TheMuso: how are the ubuntustudio people shaping up when it comes to packaging?
<dholbach> TheMuso: do you think we can recruit a bunch of them? :-)
<TheMuso> dholbach: Well I have two of them as my pupils, one of which I've been working with already. I am trying to encourage them to start diving into the TODO and fixing bugs.
<TheMuso> dholbach: Eventually, our plan is to get all ubuntustudio packagers as MOTUs. (our, being the ubuntustudio team leaders.)
<TheMuso> I've just been appointed packaging lead, so theres a lot of things I want to get sorted out, particularly pushign them towards the MOTU community in general, so that they get more well known.
<dholbach> TheMuso: they should try to follow the SponsorshipProcess on their own
<TheMuso> dholbach: I'm actually being sponsored to attend UDS in October, and so are some others from the group, so we hope to participate in MOTU discussions, as well as planning of our own.
<dholbach> TheMuso: that way they get in contact with other MOTUs who will ask them to fix their stuff and they'll benefit from that
<TheMuso> dholbach: Yeah I know, but I'm just encouraging them to do so.
<dholbach> TheMuso: thanks a lot for that
<dholbach> TheMuso: if I can help with anything or you have any other ideas, let me know
<TheMuso> dholbach: np. I am well aware that the more wide-spread sponsorship they get, the better their chances.
<dholbach> it'd be nice to have the full ubuntustudio crew as MOTUs :)
<dholbach> also: the better their contacts into the ubuntu team and the better the more diverse their packaging knowledge
<TheMuso> Yep, no argument from me there.
* dholbach hugs TheMuso
<ajmitch> TheMuso: yes I do care about the MOTU meeting time
<TheMuso> ajmitch: I know you do. Recent regulars are excused.
<ajmitch> ok :)
<TheMuso> :p
<ajmitch> and you know that I support the time you suggested
<TheMuso> ajmitch: Yup.
<ajmitch> I was in the middle of replying to that email earlier when I got distracted by something
<TheMuso> heh I know the feeling.
<TheMuso> back in a bit
<ScottK> Good morning all.
<TheMuso> Hey ScottK.
<ScottK> Heya TheMuso
<geser> Hi ScottK
* StevenK waves
* geser waves back
<ScottK> heya geser.
<ScottK> geser: You're pretty good with GTK stuff, right?
<ScottK> In interest in seeing if you can figure out https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/120569
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 120569 in gtkspell "[gutsy]  gtkspell segfaults when trying to set the language on gtk.TextView" [High,Confirmed] 
* ScottK waves to StevenK
<geser> ScottK: rather not, all I know is how to fix the build failures with gtk 2.11
<geser> but I can look if I find the problem nonetheless
<ScottK> geser: OK.  I'm completely hopeless on GTK.  If someone doesn't get it figured soon, we'll have to patch spelling support out of Gramps before the release.  It'd be good to avoid that if we can.
<StevenK> What's the stack trace?
<pkern> Time for -dbgsym
<AnAnt> Hello, I'm creating a package which includes a python module
<AnAnt> this module is for use with apache, where should this module be installed ?
<pkern> soren: ping
<soren> pkern: Oui?
<pkern> soren: Si tu as temps pour une vrification... http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=300
<soren> I have no idea what that means, but I'll take a look at that link, shall I?
<ajmitch> heh :)
<pkern> soren: Jep :-P
<soren> Nghh....
<soren> I *really* don't like quilt :)
<ajmitch> quilt is fun
<pkern> quilt was nice to edit those patches. Really.
<ajmitch> I didn't like it much either, until I looked at it a little more
<pkern> I was glad to have it.
<soren> What was wrong with cdbs' own patch system?
<ajmitch> simple-patchsys?
<soren> Yeah.
<pkern> soren: I needed to edit the patches. Which is easier if they are known to quilt. It doesn't matter much which one is used.
<ajmitch> it was intended as a demo of a patch system in cdbs :)
<pkern> But if you have to wander through the patch stack and edit here and there... simple-patchsys only applies them for the build.
<ajmitch> being able to push the patches needed & edit in place really is quite good
<soren> I suppose I can suck it up. quilt and I just have a sort of a hate-hate relationship going on.
<ajmitch> dpatch is nice like that, too (even though it unpacks elsewhere)
<ajmitch> hehe
<soren> Then use dpatch :)
<ajmitch> what do you hate about quilt?
<soren> Its existence.
<soren> and proximity.
<soren> More the latter, actually.
<ajmitch> more details needed
<norsetto> hi scottk
<ajmitch> that doesn't tell me *why* :)
<soren> Simple: It's evil and never does what I expect it to.
<soren> I expect it to bloody work. Instead it gets in my way.
<ScottK> hi norsetto.
<pkern> I never touched quilt before this package. I was able to take it up within minutes and it worked fine for me. YMMV
<soren> pkern: As I said. It's ok. I just don't like it very much.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> hi
<pkern> soren: So do you have time to review this and to judge if this may still be suitable for release? (Apart from the timeout patch the fixes would be nice to have).
<soren> pkern: Maybe tonight. I've got at dentist appointment in half an hour and I need to get a few things done first.
<pkern> soren: Ok, thanks. (:
<fernando> moin all
<dfiloni> ciao a tutti
<pkern> ScottK: That's fun. The memory gets corrupted somehow.
<pkern> Does anyone know how to add a second source path to gdb?
<pkern> (From gdbs cmdline)
<pkern> Hm dir <dirname>
<pkern> It looks like delete_aspell_config is the culprit.
<geser> pkern: I guess it somewhere in gtkspell as I got now #0  0x00002b5081c0a500 in ?? () from /usr/lib/libcrypto.so.0.9.8
<geser> if I do "gtkspell.Spell(gtk.TextView()).set_language('en_GB')" it crashes in libaspell
<pkern> geser: The point is that `spell' gets corrupted through libaspell somehow.
<pkern> geser: http://paste.debian.net/37959
<pkern> Bah, where does gsynaptics store its settings.
<geser> pkern: I don't know if the backtrace is reliable
<geser> if I do "s = gtkspell.Spell(gtk.TextView())" and then "s.set_languange('en_GB')" I get an other crash
<pkern> geser: I'm stepping through.
<pkern> That's the same problem.
<geser> either in libgtk or libcrypto
<ogra> pkern, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/20070925/ gobby liveCD :)
<pkern> Somehow set_language_internal  fails.
<pkern> ogra: Yay :D
<pkern> ogra: So you got the size problem fixed without sacrifising Gobby?
<ogra> sure
<ogra> i'd never drop gobby now that we have it in
<pkern> geser: I suggest you installing the ddebs.
<pkern> But I also got a problem with an optimized gtkspell, so that probably needs to be recompiled anyway.
<geser> I have installed the -dbgsym packages for libaspell and libgtkspell but not the others ones
<pkern> Bah, the input to _set_language is already invalid.
<pkern> A pity I can't debug the python adapter.
<LongPointyStick> RAOF: prod back
<geser> pkern: python-gnome2-extras-dbg is currently broken
<pkern> Looks like it, yes.
<geser> seb128 wants to upload a fixed one soon
<pkern> Wah that depends on apache.
<geser> how did you found out that the input to _set_language is already broken
<geser> ?
<pkern> And tk. What a crap.
<geser> ah, I already had apache installed so I didn't notice
<pkern> http://paste.debian.net/37962
<pkern> new_attach creates a GtkSpell at 0xb050b0
<pkern> set_language receives 0x8f6f00
<pkern> There were other indicators in case this one looks corrupt. Like view in spell being 0x0
<geser> I want to build locally python-gnome2-extras with fixed debugging
<geser> are amd64 debs useful to you?
<pkern> I'm currently downloading the build-deps. ;) And yes, I am on amd64.
<pkern> Hey 38M of build-deps, that's crap.
<geser> I'm just updateing my pbuilder and will rebuild gnome-python-extras soon
<pkern> One should put up a testcase in plain C Gtk.
<\sh> dholbach, someone forgot to mention that we have now wine 32bit packages on amd64 arch ;)
<\sh> dholbach, in the motu team report
<dholbach> \sh: add it for next months report
<dholbach> everybody: add MOTU facts to it :-)
<Hobbsee> what reports where?
<pkern> geser: http://paste.debian.net/37967 works as expected.
<pkern> geser: ((PyObject*)self)->spell gets modified somewhere. I couldn't see where, though.
<dholbach> \sh, Hobbsee: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/ReportingPage
<zul> dholbach: can I add "I like cheese" to the report? ;)
<dholbach> \sh, Hobbsee: got rolled into https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TeamReports/September2007
<dholbach> zul: if you feel it's in a similar spirit as above: ^
<Hobbsee> dholbach: ah yes, what's happening to those?
<dholbach> Hobbsee: we add stuff to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/ReportingPage and it gets rolled into monthly team reports
<dholbach> that way we don't have to write our own motu report
<Hobbsee> dholbach: sorry, i meant to ask what was happening with the monthly team reports?
<dholbach> and it's a good overview over what happens inside various teams
<dholbach> Hobbsee: we'll keep them around and I'm sure they'll get syndicated in other places at some stage
<Hobbsee> dholbach: hm, OK.
<dholbach> Hobbsee: hm?
<Hobbsee> dholbach: just wondering where you'd syndicate it
<Hobbsee> unless the UWN or something
<dholbach> I think it's a good thing to have it on the wiki and to have it regularly and to have all teams' information in one place
<pkern> geser: Oh no.
<dholbach> editing the motu wiki should be easy enough for everybody working in the motu team
<pkern> geser: Found it. \:
<pkern> geser: The test case is bogus.
<pkern> geser: gtkspell.Spell is not enough to keep the TextView alive.
<pkern> geser: (i.e. it does not bump the refcnt which causes the textview to be destroyed after the attachment)
<pkern> So what does this bloody program do here.
<pkern> gramps is like... 17M big. \:
<\sh> now...end of business for today...looking for a new job ,)
<pkern> geser: Bah.
<pkern> geser: gramps just checks if a spell checker is available.
<pkern> geser: I'll do a patch.
<geser> pkern: good
<pkern> geser: Well, now I moved the crash into Python's GC. o_O
<pkern> geser: But at least the pointers are all correct now.
<geser> it still crashes?
<pkern> Py_Finalize() -> PyGC_collect() -> collect -> Objects/tupleobject.c, yeah
<geser> I'm still trying to build the python module with debug symbols
<pkern> geser: I did some CFLAGS="-ggdb -O0" ./configure --prefix=/usr and copied the resulting gtkspell.so over the one in usr
<pkern> Which is dirty, but dpkg won't notify that when I later uninstall it.
<geser> I'll see if I can fix the package, so one has a working package for the next time
<pkern> Well I don't know how to fix *this* crash.
<Hobbsee> mruiz: you havent mentioned all the reverse deps of the libraries that you're wanting to sync.  neither have you mentioned if the packages work flawlessly in gutsy.  pleasefix.
<Hobbsee> mruiz: and is it really necessary to update libs, when we release in undera  month?
<mruiz> Hobbsee, I was thinking about that...
<Hobbsee> mruiz: also, libxml2 is not in universe.
<mruiz> Hobbsee, yes is main
<Hobbsee> mruiz: dude.  "No Fucking Way".
<Hobbsee> sarah@LongPointyStick:~$ rdepends  libxml2 | wc -l
<Hobbsee> 887
<mruiz> :-)
<Hobbsee> sarah@LongPointyStick:~$ rdepends libxslt1.1 | wc -l
<Hobbsee> 103
<Hobbsee> i think not
<Hobbsee> mruiz: do you want to mark them as wontfix now, or do you want a tongue lashing on teh bugs?
* Hobbsee pastes the irc log
* Hobbsee notes that this will likely work against mruiz if he ever applies for MOTU
<pkern> o_O
<pkern> geser: It's possible that gtkspell's type table is busted, but I don't even see which object it acts upon.
<pkern> Anyone here familiar with Python debugging?
<mruiz> Hobbsee, no worries. I just *asked* about them as part of desktop-team weekly todo. I understood that isn't the correct moment to go ahead.
<Hobbsee> mruiz: right...
<mruiz> Hobbsee, thanks for your advices
<Hobbsee> mruiz: dont know when the correct moment will be - they'll automatically be synced/merged for hardy
<geser> pkern: doko perhaps
<ogra> Hobbsee, oh, come on, youre taking all the fun out of making beta releases :P
<Hobbsee> ogra: :P
<Hobbsee> ogra: i havent actually been doing much with the beta, actually
<ogra> so much fun to update an essential lib at dawn of beta :)
<Hobbsee> ogra: and i think we still want people like pitti and cjwatson to have hair at teh end
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> well, there is slangasek ...
<Hobbsee> ogra: yeah, but you want him to stay as RM, not run and hide.
<Hobbsee> ogra: otherwise you'[ll have to find another RM.
<ogra> heh
<Hobbsee> mruiz: btw, i dont know how you mutilated the debdiff...
<mruiz> Hobbsee, mutilated ?
<Hobbsee> mruiz: look at teh bottom o fit
<pkern> geser: I hardly want to bother doko.
<Hobbsee> mruiz: and usually, there are paragraphs in it
<pkern> geser: I don't think it's a bug in Python itself.
<mruiz> Hobbsee, strange ... I did it as always
<Hobbsee> yeah, i've got no idea what's actually happened
<mruiz> anyway, I'lll find out about it. Cya Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> cya mruiz
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I'm just reading the scrollback and I'm afraid you are being to subtle for me.  How do you really feel about the libxml2 and libxslt1.1 UVFe's?
<ScottK> ;-)
<Hobbsee> ScottK: *grin*
<pkern> geser: I attached a solution for gramps to the bug report. I lost too much time with this and won't put up a patch now. (If somebody wants to, it's documented in the report what to do.)
<pkern> ScottK: ^
<ScottK> pkern: Thanks for looking into it.
<ScottK> pkern: Would you at least pastebin a diff of what worked for you and I'll look into it from there?
* ScottK was up until 4:30 local wrestling openssl into submission and isn't in his best figure out a patch from the comments mind state today.
<pkern> ScottK: For gramps or for the Python module?
<ScottK> pkern: Gramps
<pkern> ScottK: gramps would be along the lines of tv = gtk.TextView() gtkspell.Spell(tv).set_language(...)
<ScottK> If I can make that work, as a MOTU my caring about gtk spelling issues goes way down.
<geser> ScottK: if you change "gtkspell.Spell(gtk.TextView()).set_language(lang)" to "t = gtk.TextView()" and later "gtkspell.Spell(t).set_language(lang)" it doesn't crash
<geser> that's for the example in the bug report for how to reproduce it
<geser> I haven't looked into gramps how it does it
<ScottK> OK.  Thanks.
<pkern> geser: Exactly like that.
<ScottK> If I can get enough brain cells rubbing together I'll take a look.
<pkern> geser: It just does that to test if the spell checker is available.
<pkern> ScottK: Oh well, should I prepare a debdiff or what?
<pkern> ScottK: If YOU do the install check
<ScottK> pkern: If you would do a debdiff that would be wonderful.
<ScottK> I'll do the install check.
<ScottK> I've got a 2nd hard drive for my laptop I use just for stuff like this.
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<geser> pkern: would you say that using gtkspell.Spell() like in the bug is ok and should be reported upstream?
<pkern> geser: It looks bogus. Maybe gtkspell should provide a way of looking up that information.
<pkern> geser: It probably shouldn't segfault on this, but it's still bogus at how it is called.
<geser> I'll file a bug upstream
<pkern> ScottK: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/9503542/gramps_2.2.8-1ubuntu1_2.2.8-1ubuntu2.debdiff
<ScottK> pkern: Thanks.
<ScottK> pkern: Looks splendid.  If it tests OK I'll upload it.
<pkern> ScottK: Are you sure that `high' importance is really justified?
<ScottK> pkern: Not now that I understand it better.  I don't think I set it that way to start with.
<ScottK> pkern: I just redid the status/importance in the bug.  What do you think?
<pkern> ScottK: I would say it's low for the core apps (i.e. gtkspell and gnome-python-extras) and medium for gramps. Because you could easily work around that issue.
<ScottK> pkern: I can see that, but I have a hard time seeing anything that causes a crash as low.
<ScottK> The only exception I tend to make for that is crash on exit bugs since you wanted out anyway.
<pkern> Hm ok, point taken.
<geser> pkern: reported upstream as http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=480281
<ubotu> Gnome bug 480281 in gtkspell "Segfault when gtkspell.Spell() is called with a temporary object" [Critical,Resolved: notgnome] 
<ScottK> pkern: One small issue with your debdiff (I fixed it): It's XSBC-Original-Maintainer, not X-Original-Maintainer.
<ScottK> pkern: Nevermind.  That wasn't you.
<pkern> ScottK: (:
<ScottK> pkern: Not your fault.  I'm cleaning up a couple of other things in the package while I'm there.
<pkern> geser: Hm I believe paste.debian.net pastes expire...
<pkern> ScottK: It would be nice if we were more strict as MOTUs when it comes to initial packaging.
<ScottK> pkern: That was just someone's typo and that sort of thing happens.  Most of the stuff I'm cleaning up is just because the Debian Maintainer hasn't updated for changes in how things are done.
<ScottK> It's not a matter of the initial packaging being wrong.
<pkern> It was more a general observation. I did not look into this package's packaging at all.
<ScottK> Ah. OK.  Actually we are stricter than Debian on some things and less strict on others.
<ScottK> In my experience packaging for both.
<pkern> Stricter than Debian? In which way?
<ScottK> pkern: We tend to push harder on having stuff fully, fully documented in debian/copyright.
<ScottK> And having a full copy of the license in the upstream tarball.
<ScottK> I've had New packages I synced from Debian get rejected by the Ubuntu archive for those kinds of reasons.
<geser> pkern: you are right: (expires Thu 27th Sep 16:50)
<pkern> Fun, as I happen to know how strict Joerg usually is.
<ScottK> What expires?
<geser> http://paste.debian.net/37967
<Baby> you're stricter than Ganneff? :P
<pkern> Baby: I can't believe it, unless somebody bribed him with milk.
<Baby> hmm yep... in that case, that could be :)
<ScottK> It could just be someone had a bad day, but I've seen a number of perl modules and such come from Debian with no license copy in the upstream tarball.
<Baby> hmm that might be, if upstream hasn't put it there
<Baby> as long as everything's well documented in debian/copyright
<pkern> .oO( Do never ever confuse Baby with mruiz... )
<zul> crud i have mc hammer stuck in my head
<ScottK> Well Ubuntu archive will insist you either get upstream to add it or repack the tarball to add it yourself.
<ScottK> zul: Argh.  My ears.  Me too now.
<Baby> pkern: yup, when I saw mruiz's  nick I also went :O
<pkern> geser: severity:critical sounds exagerated(+spelling)
<Baby> I have a clone :P
<pkern> s/clone/twin/
<Baby> yup :)
<ScottK> pkern: It didn't catch my laptop on fire, so I uploaded it.  Thanks for your contribution.
<geser> pkern: I used the guided bug reporting and selected it was a crash
<pkern> geser: Ok.
<Nightrose> pkern: wrt Bug #121386 - i know - just didn't yet get to fixing the problems the last upload torevu had and didn't want to upload the package again before fixing these
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 121386 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging]  krdm" [Wishlist,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121386
<pkern> Nightrose: Ok (:
<Nightrose> ;-)
<pkern> Nightrose: Maybe for Hardy. :-P
<Nightrose> jep probably
<Kopfgeldjaeger> can i use "Categories=Application;AudioVideo" although desktop-file-validate says that the "application" category does not exist?
<geser> any reason not to remove Application from the Categories?
<Kopfgeldjaeger> i do not know any.
<ScottK> pkern: It's published now.  Thanks again.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> do i just have to add this #DEBHELPER# line into my (post|pre)(rm|inst) script to mute lintian?
<asisak> Good morning
<geser> Hi asisak
<asisak> Hey geser
<Kopfgeldjaeger> i suddenly dont have a .diff.gz anymore! i guess this is because my orig.tar.gz is somehow wrong... how should i create the orig.tar.gz ( should it be *.orig.tar.gz/Makefile or *.orig.tar.gz/pkg-version...)? the version of my package is 1:2.4~svnFFFFFF, the source root directory is pkg-2.4
<ScottK> norsetto_limbo: The python-milter setup.py patch you helped me with has been incorporated upstream.  Thanks again.
<asisak> hey ScottK
<ScottK> heya asisak
<ScottK> asisak: If you have some time, there are a bunch of .desktop related uploades waiting for UUS attention.
<asisak> Cool
<asisak> If not right now, later this week.
<asisak> Do we have some list somewhere?
<asisak> Or a tag I can find these packages
<asisak> (in an easier way)
<ScottK> asisak: Getting you a link
<ScottK> asisak: https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-universe-sponsors/ is the best I know of.
<asisak> So I should look for desktop-related packages
<asisak> Thanks, ScottK.
<alvinc> siretart here?
<ScottK> asisak: You can look at any of those, but I thought the desktop ones in particular because that fits your focus.
<siretart> alvinc: in #ubuntu-meeting
<asisak> Sure. "Fix committed" is what I should look at?
<alvinc> siretart:  k
<ScottK> No.  I think those have been uploaded.
<asisak> Oh, I see
<ScottK> Anything on UUS should be ready for upload.
<asisak> I'll look into their contents then.
<ScottK> If you look at it and it's not, unsub it and comment that they should resub UUS when it's ready.
<asisak> Sure.
<asisak> If something has been fixed in Ubuntu but not yet in Debian, should I unsubscribe UUS?
<asisak> There is a Debian BTS bug associated to it
<asisak> So I guess we cannot help any more
<norsetto> scottk: no need to thanks, it was a pleasure
<asisak> Hey norsetto!
* norsetto bows to Master sisak
* asisak bows to Emperor Tirabassi
<norsetto> asisak: hmmm, master is better than emperor, so there
<asisak> 
<asisak> I am quite convinced Ceasare means Emperor :)
<Kopfgeldjaeger> geser: i think i fixed what you told me. i you have time, a little look at http://xeve.de/down/demux/ (again *g) would be really nice
<norsetto> asisaK; heck thats where kaizer and tzar are coming too ;-)
<asisak> Sure, I know.
<asisak> This means, you rule.
<norsetto> asisak: I wish I could at least debian/rules
<asisak> ScottK: sorry, can you answer if I should unsubscribe these bugs,
<asisak> ?
<asisak> OTOH I guess I have to join UUS first
<ScottK> Yes, you do.
<asisak> So I can ping ajmitch | slomo | StevenK :)
<pwnguin> arg. why does gnome authentication suck so much?
<sistpoty> hi folks
<asisak> hey sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi asisak
<slomo> asisak: about?
<asisak> slomo: I want to join UUS so that I can (un)subscribe their bugs
<asisak> OTOH I also want to clear the queue, of course :)
<sistpoty> hey slomo, haven't seen you around for a while
<sistpoty> slomo: how are you?
<slomo> sistpoty: good but rather busy :) atm i'm learning for a test, well... i should at least as it's tomorrow :/
<sistpoty> hehe
* sistpoty just finished correcting a test, not too much fun
<sistpoty> good luck then slomo!
<slomo> sistpoty: thanks :)
<asisak> So may I ask you to approve me, slomo?
<slomo> asisak: isn't that team unused nowadays anyway? but sure, if i can i'll do it ;
<slomo> ;)
<asisak> Unused? :)
<ScottK> soren: (from #ubuntu-meeting) I think that's a function of the dichotomy between is Universe a place for the latest crack or is this stuff actually supposed to work.
<ScottK> slomo: It's motu-sru that's unused.
<ScottK> UUS is definitely used.
<norsetto> slomo: hi sebastian, did you get my last email?
<sistpoty> whoa, slangasek is now employed by canonical?
<sistpoty> i.e. vorlon, right?
<alvinc> vorlon?  lol.
<alvinc> you don't mean the encounter suited vorlons, do you?
<sistpoty> alvinc: no, rather the encounter suited ftp-master of debian :P
<sistpoty> (or RM or both? not too sure right now)
<pkern> sistpoty: He wasn't ftp-master at all.
<pkern> sistpoty: "just" RM and wanna-build lord
<sistpoty> pkern: ok, seems like I need to learn the difference between wanna-build and ftp-master before applying for NM then ;)
<pkern> sistpoty: I don't think you *need* to do that before NM, depends on your AM. ;)
<sistpoty> hehe
<pkern> sistpoty: And most ftp-master work is done by "FTP assistants" anyway.
<sistpoty> right
<pkern> But that's nothing you *need* to now. What you need to care about is NEW, p-a-s and givebacks via d-release.
<pkern> (And requesting BinNMUs by mailing d-release.)
<sistpoty> pkern: hehe, and siretart showed me the NM questions today... interestingly I had asked at least one to the MC list w.o. knowing *g*
<pkern> MC?
<sistpoty> pkern: motu council, taking care to ack/rej new MOTUs
<pkern> Bah, doing the questions beforehand because there is the CVS repo. You should not know that one. :-P
<pkern> sistpoty: I want to apply as a MOTU, heh. ;)
<sistpoty> pkern: go ahead, you'll get DD bonus anyways ;)
<siretart> sistpoty: spooky up and running :)
<siretart> sistpoty: I'll create an account for you tomorrow
<pwnguin> what's the best way to push patches into debian?
<sistpoty> siretart: hooray!
<siretart> pwnguin: via 'reportbug -B debian'
<pwnguin> aha
<pwnguin> thats how to get reportbug to touch debian
* pwnguin wishes for a reportbug-gtk
<siretart> pwnguin: you can also edit /etc/reportbug.conf
<pkern> sistpoty: I should mail motu-council or what? ;)
<sistpoty> pkern: yes, including your LP id, what you contributed to ubuntu (or inderictly via debian) so far, and what plans you have for universe
<pwnguin> siretart: when exactly do i throw in the patch during the reportbug process?
<sistpoty> pwnguin: attach a file
<pkern> sistpoty: Will do, thanks.
<siretart> see the manpage
<pwnguin> ah. i didnt think it'd be a command line option
<sistpoty> pkern: np... you'll get grilled by my questions anyways (at least as long I'm still a member) *g*
<pkern> sistpoty: Are those mailed or realtime questions? :-P
<pkern> sistpoty: I should reactivate my AM account and request you, then, if you ever apply. :-P
<sistpoty> pkern: mailed. any yes, though that's not gonna happen before december (no vac until then), and yes, I take bribes ;)
<sistpoty> s/any/and/
<sistpoty> bigon: btw: did you recieve my last mail to the MC-list? (asking, because I might have sent it via local SMTP which is usually flagged as spam or not even accepted by the peer STMP)
<bigon> sistpoty: yep I do
<sistpoty> great :)
<bigon> :)
<pkern> sistpoty: I only need to skim the archives for answers? ;)
<geser> pwnguin: you can also add it to your .reportbugrc so you don't need to remember it
<pwnguin> geser: probably a good idea
<sistpoty> pkern: no, the questions I ask solely depend on my mood and on my level of drunkness (though the archives might give some clue)
<sistpoty> *g*
<erable> Hi, I have made 2 packages. Can somebody test them ?
<joejaxx> anyone else running kde4 beta 2? :P
<ScottK> joejaxx: #kubuntu-devel will find you several people doing it.
<pwnguin> hmm
<pwnguin> it seems i need to set up smtp rules to do this... =/
<joejaxx> ScottK: thanks :P
<joejaxx> :)
<pwnguin> hmm. the reportbug manpage suggests one can use an http proxy to submit. is this often used?
* Riddell pokes slomo into -mono
<norsetto> riddel: looks like slomo is in pre-testing frenzy .....
<pkern> sistpoty: Oh well. One needs to be goals! That's not the case when you join Debian!
<pkern> sistpoty: Almost nobody is asking you why you join. ;)
<erable> Hi, I have made 2 packages (qextserialport and qtsmbstatus). Can somebody check them ?
<sistpoty> pkern: hehe
<norsetto> erable: are they in revu?
<erable> yes
<pkern> sistpoty: "Why do you join Ubuntu?" "Fun!?"
<norsetto> erable: just paste the links and somebody will have a look at them
<pkern> Someone hand me a MOTU Council mail template. It can't be that you got no template for that! :-P
<sistpoty> pkern: that doesn't answer your goals for ubuntu (universe) until that's fun as well :P
<pkern> sistpoty: To put the fun back into ubfuntu... bah. Bad one.
<pkern> *cough* ):
<erable> norsetto: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=295 and http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=286
<erable> thanks
<pwnguin> "because i hate life, i work on universe"
<sistpoty> pkern: check the archives. unfortunately almost each application has the subject "MOTU application" which gave me great deals of pain looking for outstanding applications a few weeks ago
<pkern> pwnguin: That would be multiverse.
<pwnguin> pkern: paraphrased from mjg
<pwnguin> who hates life and makes linux work on laptops
<pkern> sistpoty: I saw that, yeah ;)
<pwnguin> i daresay its worse than multiverse
<pkern> sistpoty: The main point why I am hesitant is because I may not have contributed enough yet.
<sistpoty> pkern: but you contributed a lot to debian, did you? others than that merely knowing the community and motu processes is required
<sistpoty> (at least that's my POV)
<norsetto> erable: before we do anything else, can you make your packages lintian/linda clean?
<erable> lintian package.deb return no error. Why this question ?
<asisak> norsetto: the new Master "who you should better be frightened"(TM) of the universe
<norsetto> erable: they are not clean, check changes and dsc too
<norsetto> asisak: can't even frighten my 4 months old kitten ....
<geser> norsetto: kittens != MOTU Hopefuls :)
<erable> norsetto: OK. I test them (excuse me, I'm a newbies)
<norsetto> geser: yes, contributor's fangs are more scary :-)
<norsetto> come on guys, am I really scary? Now you scare me ....
<ScottK> norsetto: Old guys are scary.
<sistpoty> ScottK, norsetto: he, then I'm not scary yet *g*
<ScottK> sistpoty: AFAIK you are a genuine youngster.
<sistpoty> ScottK: as in 28, but I guess, yes :P
<ScottK> Yes.  Definite youngster.
* sistpoty feels charmed
<ScottK> I have a vague recollection of being 28.
<asisak> Hmm, define "old", please.
<_MMA_> ScottK: And you are? :)
* ScottK just focuses on norsetto being older than he.
<ScottK> _MMA_: 44
<_MMA_> pffttt..
<norsetto> _MMA_: he cheats ;-)
<_MMA_> Com on man. Im looking forward to 40s. :)
* pkern coughs.
<_MMA_> My kids will be gone then. (hopefully)
<ScottK> Well I messed that one up.
<ScottK> I have a 4 year old.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> good night
<ScottK> good night Kopfgeldjaeger
<ScottK> Thank goodness for tab completion.
<_MMA_> ScottK: Well a docs scissors took care of that problem for me after my 2. ;) Boy=3 Girl=5. Im 31.
<sistpoty> gn8 Kopfgeldjaeger
<pkern> ScottK: Kopfgeldjger would have been hard I guess. :-P
<sistpoty> not for me, unless I'm at uni (american keyboards *g*)
<pkern> Those Umlauts still look strange on Gutsy and the standard font in gnome-terminal.
<pkern> sistpoty: Compose FTW
<pkern> sistpoty: US English keyboard with Compose here. ;)
<sistpoty> pkern: I'm used to tex, so I'd rather/faster write "a
<asisak> \"a ?
<pkern> asisak: Not needed with german package.
<ajmitch> morning all
<asisak> Hey ajmitch
<geser> Hi ajmitch
<pkern> Evening ajmitch ;)
<ScottK> Good morning ajmitch.
<sistpoty> asisak: "{a}, uless you've got some package loaded which I always copy from other tech sources
<norsetto> morning ajmitch
<sistpoty> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> yay, new server seems to be working well enough
<asisak> ajmitch: Can I ask you to approve my UUS application?
<imbrandon> hrm anyone familiar with a console picture viewer like LxPic for {DR-,MS-,*}DOS ?
<ajmitch> asisak: if you ask nicely
<asisak> ajmitch: please to so :)
<ajmitch> nicely with $$ helps ;)
<ScottK> ajmitch: Please.  He's going to upload the seventy four hundred and two bugs sitting there with .desktop files so the rest of us don't have to feel guilty.
<ajmitch> oh alright
<norsetto> asisak: nz$ possibly .....
<pkern> sistpoty: I'm sure I did everything wrong with that mail, but well.
<ajmitch> norsetto: hey they're not that worthless
<asisak> ajmitch: are you from New Zealand?
<pkern> ajmitch: Gotcha. :-P
<sistpoty> pkern: well, might take a while 'till it hits me (-> ubuntu address, -> university server with big delay -> home */10)
<ajmitch> asisak: sure
<asisak> Wow.
* ajmitch has approved the application
<norsetto> ajmitch: don't think I ever seen one actually, and don't tell me they have a picture of a kiwi on it?
<asisak> I have never met a guy from New Zealand.
<ajmitch> norsetto: of course
<ajmitch> asisak: I have
<sistpoty> ajmitch: btw.: are you coming to UDS?
<ajmitch> sistpoty: no
<sistpoty> :(... as this time I'll be around
<asisak> ajmitch: thanks :)
<pkern> Erlangen... the home of J.B.O... o_O
<sistpoty> pkern: ha, used to hear that when I was young (nothing compared to other ppl. in here though :P)
<ajmitch> sistpoty: I went last time, and there was no way they'd sponsor me
<pkern> sistpoty: /me too. When I was young (about... uh... 14? 15?), too. :-P
<sistpoty> ajmitch: I guess I was lucky twice (and unlucky once, since I didn't have the time)
<ajmitch> sistpoty: and you've been doing work :)
<asisak> Should I unsubscribe Ubuntu-fixed Debian-outstanding bugs from UUS?
<ajmitch> (unlike me)
<asisak> I asked this before but got not clear answer
<sistpoty> pkern: hehe, i guess I still listened to it until 18 or so, but my excuse is that I'm coming from the country originally *g*
* asisak tends to behave dumb nowadays
<sistpoty> ajmitch: work != asking a few questions on MC list :P
<ajmitch> sistpoty: far more than I've done
<ajmitch> though I'll probably have to pick up on asking questions now
<sistpoty> ajmitch: probably, especially for pkern's application :P
<ajmitch> yeah...
<asisak> ScottK, ajmitch, sistpoty: any ideas?
<ajmitch> asisak: if you feel like it
<ajmitch> pkern probably knows far more than I do :)
<asisak> So you say I should not
<asisak> in general, at least
<pkern> ajmitch: Doubt that one.
<pkern> My mail awaits moderation, heh.
<sistpoty> asisak: having not looked at the sponsorship queue for at least 6 month, no idea
<ScottK> asisak: Yes.
<asisak> sistpoty: sorry :)
<ScottK> There's no UUS action, so there's no point in UUS subscribed.
<asisak> Okay. I'll do so, since we cannot fix Debian
<pkern> And my mail filter munged it into =.debian.motu-council. I guess I have to adapt that one finally. ;)
* ajmitch may have to search out the mc list password
<sistpoty> lol pkern, my debian bugs are in .ubuntu/debian-bugs *g*
<Lutin> bigon: ping
<bigon> Lutin: pong
<Lutin> bigon: I'm a little confused by bug #141015 .. isn't the --path option what you're looking for ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 141015 in ubuntu-dev-tools "Correctly pass path to dch" [Undecided,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141015
* ajmitch tries to think of some questions to ask pkern 
<bigon> Lutin: what's the problem?
* pkern is curious.
<ScottK> pkern: Why did you joing the IPv6 team and what do you hope to accomplish with that?
<Lutin> bigon: what is *your* problem ? :) I don't really understand the issue
<pkern> ScottK: I'm also the Debian maintainer of aiccu and I am actively pushing for IPv6.
<pkern> ScottK: i.e. I connected networks at university to IPv6, have it at home etc.
<pkern> ScottK: I did not yet actively work on IPv6 on Ubuntu apart from having aiccu synced from Debian.
<pkern> (I probably should have mentioned that, hm.)
<ScottK> You could still put it on your wiki page.
<bigon> Lutin: Well running the update-maintainer script in a directory that contains the control file and the changelog will not work unless the directory is named "debian"
<pkern> ScottK: Aye.
<ScottK> bigon: That's pretty well how it's supposed to work.
* asisak leaves now with the hope that pkern can get a MOTU soon, ajmitch earns some heavy nz$, and finally that norsetto does not ever get frightened by his kittens.
<bigon> ScottK: well the update-maintainer script correctly update the maintainer field, but failed on adding a changelog entry because dch is looking for debian/changelog
<norsetto> asisak: you should see it, its a LION ....
<sistpoty> ScottK: btw.: could you forward those direct questions to the MC list if possible? (as we're imho too short of input there, that's why I'm asking questions there all the time *g*)
<Lutin> bigon: oh, ok
<bigon> Lutin: I'm pretty sure my patch doesn't break anything
<mlind_> does syncing a native package from Debian need a UVF exception ?
<ScottK> mlind_: Technically no as it's not an upstream version.  Don't do anything insane though.
<mlind_> ScottK: okay, thanks. I've been eyeballing cowdancer as it doesn't work as expected in currently in Gutsy
<Lutin> bigon: yeah, looks sane. however I can't catch why Hobbsee said it was working even if it wasn't named debian/
<Lutin> shouldn't actually
<norsetto> lutin: I tried it also and indeed it doesn't
<mlind_> ScottK: but is fixed in Debina sid
<bigon> Lutin: I don't know
<ScottK> mlind_: Sounds like a good sync then.
<mlind_> s/Debina/Debian
<mlind_> ScottK: right, i'll file a bug about it then
<pkern> ScottK: Debian packages which are native are normally upstream versions. Either Debian is upstream directly or upstream maintains it in Debian.
<geser> or are mispackaged
<norsetto> geser: lol
<pkern> geser: ...
<ScottK> pkern: I guess it's a matter of perspective.  We don't consider Debian revisions of non-native packages as upstream versions.
<pkern> geser: Always looking for the bad? ;)
<Lutin> bigon: go for the change if you want, or I'll commit tomorrow. I'm perfectly fine it
<Lutin> and thanks :)
<pkern> ScottK: Exactly, I didn't say s.th. else.
<ScottK> So it's kind of hard to then say every single native package update needs a UVFe.
<bigon> Lutin: do it yourself, I'm not a MOTU (yet :)
<Lutin> bigon: ok :)
<pkern> ScottK: If it's a simple packaging change, then not, yes. ;)
<ScottK> So we don't have a hard and fast rule for native packages.
<pkern> ScottK: Ok.
<pwnguin> is there a definition for native packages?
<geser> pwnguin: yes, consists only of a .dsc and .orig.tar.gz (no .diff.gz and no Debian revision)
<mlind_> ScottK: I should have asked "UVFe's for native packages where Debian is upstream".
<pwnguin> so its a package thats entirely within debian/
<geser> pwnguin: no, more like apt and dpkg
<pwnguin> i see
<geser> software which doesn't have much use outside Debian
<ScottK> pkern: Any chance you could take a look at vmware-player and see if you can convince it to use openssl 0.9.8 instead of 0.9.7.  It's the last remaining openssl 0.9.7 rdepend.  It'd be nice to kill that off if we could.
<pwnguin> packages that debian is the only sensible upstream for ;)
<pkern> ScottK: Well it's multiverse.
<pkern>   vmware-player-kernel-modules: Depends: vmware-player-kernel-modules-2.6.20-15 which is a virtual package.
<pkern> ScottK: Broken in Gutsy.
<pkern> ScottK: i.e. unmetdeps
<ScottK> Hmm
<pkern> Will go over -source now.
<ScottK> What should we do with it then?
<ScottK> Thanks
<bigon> sistpoty: answered your mail :)
<pkern> ScottK: m-a breaks on the -kernel-source.
<pkern> ScottK: With `missing debian/control'.
<ScottK> That doesn't sound pleasant.
<sistpoty> bigon: :)... (might take a while untiul it hits me, and maybe I'll answer it tomorrow then)
<bigon> k
<sistpoty> s/untiul/until
<pkern> ScottK: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vmware-player/
<pkern> ScottK: I am not familiar with m-a yet. There are debian/control*in, but I don't know what would trigger a conversion to a debian/control.
<pkern> ScottK: Hm... Funny enough it installs module-assistant but README.Debian contains instructions which do not use it.
<pkern> ScottK: The 2nd point mentioned in README.Debian only won't work (no Makefile) and kernel-package as suggested in 1 with make-kpkg is no dependency.
<pkern> ScottK: That package is just broken.
<ScottK> It looks like it's a long time since it was touched in Debian too.
<pkern> Same in Ubuntu.
<pkern> http://packages.qa.debian.org/v/vmware-package.html is pretty current.
<pkern> And supports vmware player.
<ScottK> At a glance it looks like the source package for vmware player shifted.
<ScottK> Hmmm
<ScottK> I need to go play Daddy for a while.  Back later.
<ScottK> pkern: I'm curious what you'd recommend to straighten out the mess.
<pkern> ScottK: I don't know if Canonical's interests are involved here.
<pkern> http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu/pool/main/v/vmware-server/
<ScottK> pkern: We should just try to "do the right thing" and let them sort it out later if they have to.
<pkern> Hm, vmware-package says Please note that the resulting packages files are non-free and non-distributable.
<pkern> Did VMware change the licence from player 1.0 to 2.0?
<pkern> On a download I need to register.
<pkern> ScottK: Personally I would drop it and import vmware-package for those who need it.
<pkern> ScottK: The package is outdated and broken.
<pkern> Yay, there are even security issues with the version currently in the archives.
<tristanbob> who was the community member that was hired by canonical?
<tristanbob> recently... trying to find a post about it
<erable> I don't understand where is the problem : qextserialport source: substvar-source-version-is-deprecated libqextserialport-dev
<pkern> tristanbob: dholbach?
<RAOF> erable: That sounds like you've got the -dev package depending on libq...port (= $source-version), which isn't BinNMU safe.
<erable> RAOF: OK. Thanks
<RAOF> erable: You can check out the Banshee package for an example of a package that does this correctly (although with plugins, not -dev), I believe.
<erable> RAOF:  Ok
<ScottK> clamav is another one that does it correctly.
<RAOF> Ok.  Where is our udev policy?
<RAOF> Because it's different from Debian's.
<pwnguin> is it?
<pkern> ScottK: Will you file a remove request or does your opinion on this differ?
<norsetto> time flies ... good night all
<pwnguin> RAOF: i think our policy is crimsun must be pleased with offerings
<ScottK> pkern: I haven't had time to look at it in detail.
<ScottK> Sounds reasonable though.
<RAOF> pwnguin: Yes.  For example, packages are expected to install udev rules which set permissions, which is verboten in Debian.
<pwnguin> are they?
<pwnguin> because i got shot down on that
<pwnguin> by quoting debian policy
<RAOF> pwnguin: bug #127704
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 127704 in kvm "kvm: access to /dev/kvm should have a different group-ownership" [Low,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/127704
<RAOF> keybuk's comments, particularly.
<pwnguin> err
<pwnguin> huh
<pwnguin> who the heck is crimsun then
<RAOF> The (ex) ALSA god?
<pwnguin> Remnent is the one i meant =/
<Adri2000> pkern: dholbach has been working for canonical for a long time now :) tristanbob: Soren Hansen ?
<imbrandon> pwnguin: Scott
<imbrandon> ?
<pwnguin> i say we double team the guy and ask for a written policy :)
<pwnguin> imbrandon: yea
<pwnguin> sjr
<pkern> ScottK: Should I file it on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/vmware-player/ ?
<imbrandon> Scott is Keybuk not crimsun
<imbrandon> pwnguin ^
<pwnguin> imbrandon: this i have figured out
<pwnguin> just now
<imbrandon> lol kk
<ScottK> pkern: Let me have a look at this.
* RAOF checks out dh_installudev's README.Debian
<pwnguin> heh
<pwnguin> dont use that either
<RAOF> Well, not in Debian.  But how about Ubuntu? :P
<pwnguin> this might be something to put on the tech committee agenda =/
* RAOF boggles at Nautilus' move behaviour.  Is there a good reason why it's copy+delete, rather than directory editing??
<ScottK> pkern: I don't see that we have vmware-package in Ubuntu.
<RAOF> pwnguin: You know what?  #ubuntu-devel :)
<ScottK> RAOF: Maybe so if it crashes in the middle you don't end up with no file at all?
<pwnguin> what does directory editing entail?
<RAOF> Maybe.  Surely you can do that with directory editing, too?
<pwnguin> opening a directory file and editing that?
<RAOF> pwnguin: What "mv" does.  You just add a directory entry to the target, pointing at the file, then remove the existing directory entry.
<pwnguin> ok
<pwnguin> pretty scary to screw that up though
<pwnguin> more importantly
<pwnguin> cant always do that
<RAOF> Tru.
<pwnguin> as far as i can tell, it does use mv when it can
<RAOF> But it should be just as safe when it's possible (ie: target and dest are on the same filesystem)
<RAOF> Not for my Music directory, apparently.
<RAOF> Actually, it should be *safer*, since you'll never end up with half-files.
<pwnguin> moving between filesystems takes significant time, but at least for me, moving on the same filesystem is very snappy
<RAOF> Yeah, that's the behaviour I expected.
<pwnguin> thats what i get in feisty
<pwnguin> havent checked gutsy
<pwnguin> what's more aggrevating is
<pwnguin> move is copy and delete if it's within one FS
<pwnguin> otherwise, it's just copy
<pkern> ScottK: That's why I said `and import it'. It's a bad point of time indeed, but I don't see a point in keeping vmware-player neither.
<ScottK> RIght.
<ScottK> Missed that.
<pwnguin> RAOF: did you want me to look at something in ubuntu-devel?
<RAOF> pwnguin: No, just suggesting that we might want to hit that channel for this conversation.
<imbrandon> jez i'm fskin bored
* imbrandon mumbles
* Fujitsu points imbrandon to Malone.
<imbrandon> arg now i'm blind and bored
<imbrandon> but i guess its better than /.
<pwnguin> ive got some games in my ppa you can try :P
<pwnguin> they basically all came from debian-games though
<imbrandon> heh, well i guess i could turn that laptop into a picture frame tonight
* imbrandon ponders
<ScottK> imbrandon: You could pull boswars from NEW.  I heard it's a pretty good game.
* ajmitch ponders dist-upgrading to sid
<pkern> sistpoty: You didn't copy me, right?
<pwnguin> imbrandon: if you're still a motu, you could help me figure out this udev stuff
<ajmitch> 'if'
<ajmitch> of course he's a MOTU
<imbrandon> yea i'm still MOTU and core-dev
<imbrandon> heh
<pwnguin> i figure some people resign when they hit core
<imbrandon> what about udev?
<ScottK> pwnguin: That's not how it works.
<imbrandon> core is incluseive
<imbrandon> of MOTU
<ScottK> what imbrandon said
<pwnguin> ah
<imbrandon> so core is both motu is only motu
<pwnguin> i figured they were seperate teams, so core could up and walk away from problems ;)
<imbrandon> if that makes since
<pwnguin> anyways
<imbrandon> nah there are quite a few that are active in both
<ajmitch> pwnguin: some people may do that
<pwnguin> lets say ive got two packages that want uinput
* ajmitch hasn't *quite* given up on universe 
<pkern> ajmitch: Could you redirect me sistpoty's mail? I'll sign up to motu-council in the meantime.
<DarkSun88> Night
<pwnguin> one is a fingerprint reader, and the other is used to make a wiimote connected via bluetooth into a mouse
<pwnguin> is one able to seperate permissions on that?
<imbrandon> into a mouse? or via bluetooth as a mouse
<ScottK> pkern: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2007-September/000408.html
<pkern> ScottK: I don't want to break threading.
<pkern> ScottK: I read that one.
<ScottK> OK
<pwnguin> imbrandon: im not sure as i dont have a bluetooth mouse
<imbrandon> seperate permissions how ? as in who can connect/disconnect them ?
<pwnguin> but i think they're different
<pwnguin> imbrandon: as in, make one owned by root only, and the other owned by a group
<imbrandon> hrm never tried that personaly but i'm sure your right a udev rule would do it
<pkern> Heh, downloading the mbox works, downloading the gzip version from September did not.
<pwnguin> the fingerprint reader is authentication stuff, so i think you dont want to give people control over it =/
<ScottK> Ooh. And he's considerate of ML threading.  Another point in his favor.
#ubuntu-motu 2007-09-26
<pwnguin> psh. just make everyone use gmail ;)
<ScottK> pkern: I'm going to ask one of the archive admins how they recommend approaching it as they're the ones that'll have to New the package.
* pkern uses mutt and is glad about that.
<ScottK> pwnguin: Please. No. Not that.
<pwnguin> top posting for everyone!
<ScottK> Gah.
<pkern> ScottK: Aye. Well, it's kind of a hard decision. I don't know how well it performs and it still looks like a moving target.
<pwnguin> to be fair, top posting works great in gmail
<pwnguin> as does conversation threading
<ajmitch> 920 upgraded, 198 newly installed, 20 to remove and 7 not upgraded.
<ajmitch> Need to get 940MB/942MB of archives.
<ScottK> pkern: Right, but kind of maybe sucks beats completely broken.
<ajmitch> yay for etch->sid
<RAOF> pwnguin: No, gmail threading sucks.
<pkern> ajmitch: I wouldn't want sid ;)
* pkern prefers stable machines, no moving targets.
<pkern> ;)
<ajmitch> pkern: so you don't use gutsy? :)
* ajmitch wonders how pkern builds & tests his debian uploads
<sistpoty> pkern: I've CC'd you. did your MTA reject it (as I've not configured exim too well and am sending from a dynamic ip)?
<imbrandon> wow i dont think i have had a stable system for 2+ years
<pkern> sistpoty: Did you send it to pkern@debian.org? Then I couldn't check.
<pkern> ajmitch: Gutsy is almost stable :-P
<ScottK> Except of course when it's not.
<pwnguin> thats why i keep a seperate stable partition around
<pkern> ScottK: I fixed those bugs that annoyed me, but there still the bloody SLUB kernel.
<sistpoty> pkern: yes, I just hit reply-to-all (/me is a kmail user, since the days where I assumed I was the only one *g*)
<pwnguin> it'd be nice if someone fixed up the grub automagic kernel stuff to handle two installs
<pkern> sistpoty: You should not send from dynamic IPs anyway. But I did not configure dynamic RBLs per se on master, but you might be covered. And there is greylisting of course. ;)
<sistpoty> pkern, ScottK: gutsy refers to stable as unstable refers to {RedHat, SuSE, ...} releases *g*
<pkern> sistpoty: I didn't see the headers in the archives.
<pkern> sistpoty: Gutsy is almost frozen. I also use testing when it's almost frozen.
<sistpoty> pkern: I know, but it's convenient, and the wrong hostname is convenient as well (because I needn't touch exim settings *g*)
<pkern> ajmitch: I tend to use sid chroots for that and I never felt the need to update a chroot from Etch to Sid. I re-debootstrap in such cases.
<soothsayer> What packages do I need to debug nautilus + gnome-vfs?
<soothsayer> (Besides nautilus-dbg)
<pkern> sistpoty: Setting up SMTP AUTH isn't that hard, there are tutorials for that. But well, you aren't using postfix? ;)
<ajmitch> pkern: I generally use sid chroots for that as well, but I did run sid as my main desktop for a few years
<ajmitch> until I dist-upgraded from sid to hoary
<sistpoty> pkern: I know, but I have a (erm postfix MTA, to smtp to) for lost mails *g+
<pkern> ajmitch: Yeah, cross-distribution upgrades :D
<pkern> ajmitch: Probably failing badly on epochs
<ajmitch> lots of apt pinning fun :)
<ajmitch> this was just after hoary opened, too
<imbrandon> epochs are kept normaly in ubuntu
* sistpoty remembers pulling in X from unstable w.o. pinning during breezy development :)
<pkern> imbrandon: But when they are not made in Debian you get fun.
<imbrandon> yea *cough* amarok *cough*
<ajmitch> hi bigon
<bigon> ajmitch: hi
<ajmitch> sistpoty: start up the grill
<sistpoty> ajmitch: for whom? pkern?
<sistpoty> hi ajmitch btw  ;)
<ajmitch> nah, bigon :)
<bigon> :o
<ajmitch> hello to you too :)
<soothsayer> libglib2.0-dbg seems not to be available. Where can I get debug packages for glib?
<ajmitch> bigon: you seem to have some good answers on the list there
<RAOF> soothsayer: You can get -dbgsym packages for everything from people.ubuntu.com.  wiki.ubuntu.com/Backtrace I think.
<sistpoty> ajmitch: just writing the reply.
<sistpoty> ajmitch, bigon: and I'm almost in there for a +1... almost
<bigon> sistpoty: :)
<sistpoty> bigon: so I guess I skip the P.S.: almost... and just send the mail, ok?
<ajmitch> bigon: how many of these packages that you work on will move to main?
<soothsayer> RAOF: Sorry, I didn't quite understand any of that. Backtrace page doesn't seem to have any information that I need. And people.ubuntu.com?
<sistpoty> ajmitch: why don't you ask these questions on the ML? then I wouldn't need to think about questions all the time :P
<ajmitch> :P
<bigon> ajmitch: I really don't know telepathy is still under heavy development
<RAOF> soothsayer: Ah, sorry.  There's an archive on someone's people.ubuntu.com page which contians -dbgsym packages for everything.
<RAOF> soothsayer: It may be under "DebuggingProgramCrash" on the wiki.
<bigon> the empathy maintainer had asked to be part of the gnome desktop for version 2.22
<RAOF> bigon: Cool.  I like the idea of telepathy/empathy.
<bigon> :)
<RAOF> bigon: Oh, and are you aware that telepathy-butterfly doesn't work at all?
<zul> evening
<bigon> RAOF: yep :) a new version (rewritten from scratch should go out today)
<RAOF> Actually, that's not strictly true.  It works enough to repeatedly connect & disconnect :)
<RAOF> Well, that should be a shoe-in for a UVFe :)
<sistpoty> bigon: reply sent...
<soothsayer> RAOF: Thanks
<sistpoty> damn, need to go to bed in -2 hours. gn8 everyone
* pkern awaits a hard time when sistpoty replies back.
<ajmitch> he wouldn't ask any hard questions
<zul> hey ajmitch
<ajmitch> hello
<soothsayer> RAOF: Those repositories appear to be empty :(
<soothsayer> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/ddebs/dists/gutsy/main/
<RAOF> soothsayer: That's where I get all my ddebs from?
<soothsayer> RAOF: Do you have debug packages for libglib2.0?
<ajmitch> soothsayer: why do you say they'e empty?
<ajmitch> the packages live under pool, not under dists
<soothsayer> ajmitch: Ah, oops. Sorry
<ajmitch> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/ddebs/pool/main/g/glib2.0/
<soothsayer> ajmitch: Got it thanks
<RAOF> soothsayer: In short, yes :)
* pkern has the ddebs added to his sources.list
<ajmitch> as you should :)
<pkern> And the sourcedeps ;)
* RAOF has the ddebs in sources.list.d/ddebs.list
<ajmitch> rather than trying to get them individually
<pkern> Which were actually quite helpful today.
<soothsayer> If a program is invoked before I installed the debugging symbols package, will the debugging symbols not be available to me?
<pkern> Oh thanks update-manager... "gutsy-wallpapers: Feisty Wallpapers"
<pkern> Maybe that one should have been changed when the package was renamed. (=
<pkern> But the wallpapers were already installed but are not listed in Appearance Preferences.
<pkern> Hm, is it. nm
<bigon> good noght
<bigon> s/noght/night
<bddebian> Heya gang
<pkern> Hey.
<bddebian> Hello pkern
<bddebian> Anyone know what Lucas Nussbaum's irc nick is?
<ajmitch> bddebian: lucas?
<bddebian> Ah, OK, thx
<bddebian> I don't recall seeing him here, does he come here?
<bddebian> BTW Hi ajmitch :-)
<ajmitch> yes he comes here
<ajmitch> hello
<pwnguin> is there a description of the meaning of various groups?
<pwnguin> like what does plugdev allow?
<bddebian> Hmm, I think slash should probably be removed
<pwnguin> is there a description of the meaning of various unix groups?
<bddebian> Holy crap there are a lot of unmet deps for ghc6
<pwnguin> !info ghc6
<ubotu> ghc6: GHC - the Glasgow Haskell Compilation system. In component universe, is optional. Version 6.6-3 (feisty), package size 23676 kB, installed size 111708 kB
* bddebian just requests the removal of Universe, just for kicks :-)
* Tm_T removes bddebian from the Universe
<Tm_T> happy now?
<bddebian> Yep :-)
* jdong requests removal of universe from universe and watches LP grind to a halt
<ScottK> jdong: How would you tell the difference (in LP's speed)?
<jdong> ScottK: changelog view lag!
<jdong> ;-)
<ScottK> Don't get me started on the list of random entries from .changes files that may or may not relate to any particular release you happen to care about and almost certainly isn't complete.
<ajmitch> bddebian: look what you've done
<bddebian> Doh
<ScottK> ajmitch: You should know by now it doesn't take bddebian to get me bitter.
<ajmitch> yes, sadly
<ScottK> OTOH, I was bitter in #launchpad on Friday and Saturday and some stuff is getting changed as a result, so I'm happy about that.
<jdong> yay, bitterness fixes all :)
<jdong> at least that used to work in medicine
<bddebian> The squeaky wheel gets the grease :-)
<bddebian> Hmm, so libapache-filter-perl will build and install but the binary package should probably be renamed and I have no idea if it actually works with apache2..
<ScottK> bddebian: IIRC poker-network was having db-common-config trouble and they fixed it in the latest upload.  I don't remember how, but you may want to look at that.
<ScottK> IRC reply to your email....
<bddebian> ScottK: Heh, I'll check it out, thanks
<StevenK> bddebian: I'll look at libapache-filter-perl
<bddebian> StevenK: You rock :-)
<ScottK> Hello Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> hi ScottK
<RAOF> Hey Hobbsee!
<Hobbsee> RAOF!
<bddebian> Hi Hobbsee :-)
<ajmitch> hey Hobbsee
<RAOF> Hobbsee: There's been contextless pingage galore.  What's up :)
<Hobbsee> hiya bddebian, ajmitch
<ajmitch> good to see you're still with us
<Hobbsee> RAOF: hehe :)  lastlog miro, and you'll see
<RAOF> Hobbsee: I saw you suggesting miro-data as an example.  And my buffers don't go that far back :/
<Hobbsee> RAOF: that was it.
<Hobbsee> RAOF: thought if you were around to help, that would be good.
<bddebian> OK, f**k libapache-mod-limitipconn
<RAOF> Oh.  That's all?  Ah.
<bddebian> Shouldn't that be vista4halo2? ;-P
<Hobbsee> oh dear.  someone shoot him.
<Hobbsee> RAOF: yup
<StevenK> bddebian: Halo 3 is out. :-P
<bddebian> StevenK: Xbox only though, no?
<StevenK> Xbox 360
<bddebian> Aye, consoles are for children :-)
* StevenK pats his PS2
<bddebian> Hmm, there is an Apache 2.0 version of libapache-mod-limitipconn upstream
* bddebian hands that to StevenK too :-)
<TheMuso> StevenK: You run Linux on that right?
<StevenK> TheMuso: No, I run games on it.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Shame on you. :p
<StevenK> Just because Sony won't release Braille games. :-P
<TheMuso> At least its possible to get Linux running on the original Xbox, without needing some stupid kit to do it. :)
<TheMuso> StevenK: har har har. I actually have enough sight to play games believe it or not.
* StevenK rattles TheMuso's cage some more. :-P
* Hobbsee is reminded of StevenK's comment at LCA
<TheMuso> lol
<TheMuso> I am serious;
<RAOF> So close!  There's a driver for my laptop's webcam that turns the little LED on, but fails when I try to do anything with it because it tries to allocate some 10GB of buffer memory.
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Oh?
<Hobbsee> StevenK: "hey, we're following a blind man here!"
<StevenK> Yes, I just thought of that. :-)
<TheMuso> You guys crack me up.
* bddebian just does crack
<StevenK> bddebian: Keep talking, I have the FBI on the phone. :-P
<TheMuso> StevenK: You are very jovial today.
<StevenK> Okay.
* bddebian puts down the crack pipe and picks up his "Bomb making for Dummies" book
* StevenK has a flashback to Hoodwinked.
<StevenK> "Wood chopping for Actors"
<bddebian> heh
<bddebian> What the hell does Breaks: foo (<< 1.5) mean
<StevenK> If it's installed, and foo has a version of << 1.5, foo will break
<jdong> exactly what it says
<RAOF> And thus, the packages manager should do something about this state of affairs.
<StevenK> dpkg in gutsy is good. Breaks and triggers. Yummy
<bddebian> So why the heck does it show up in unmet deps?
<bddebian> Package python-gnome2-extras version 2.19.1-0ubuntu2 has an unmet dep:
<bddebian>  Breaks: glom (< 1.5.1)
<RAOF> Heh.
* bddebian really doesn't know why he tries to do anything
<Hobbsee> bddebian: yes you do - to make it better.
<bddebian> Yeah except most times I think I make it worse :-)
<Hobbsee> then change :P
<bddebian> I don't think there's a fix for stupidity ;-P
<ajmitch> caution, planning & testing
<pwnguin> http://boredandblogging.com/2007/09/25/aluminium-case-badges-coming/
<pwnguin> those look pretty sweet
<bddebian> ajmitch: That's my cure?
<ajmitch> bddebian: I would say to just be quiet & go fix stuff instead
<ajmitch> but that wouldn't be as much fun for you
<bddebian> Heh
<StevenK> Excellent, libapache-mod-filter can die
<bddebian> Heh
<StevenK> libapache2-mod-perl2 provides a Apache2::Filter, which from a cursory glance does the same sort of things
<bddebian> makes sense
<bddebian> I think it has an rdepends for libapache-asp-something
<StevenK> It does?
<StevenK> libapache-asp-perl
<StevenK> Gah
<bddebian> Which I'm sure is broken too :-)
<bddebian> Ah well bed time for bonzo, gnight folks
<soren> ScottK: Source backports?
<ScottK> Yes
<ScottK> If a backport can't be done without changing the package (due to dep issues or something) the changed package for backports needs to be uploaded by a core-dev.
<ScottK> A MOTU can't even do it for a Universe package.
<asisak> Hey ScottK, soren
<asisak> I get "waiting for approval" mails for universe. This is because of some freeze now, right?
<ScottK> soren: In fact, I'd like to get Bug #115269 done pretty soon, but it needs a review.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 115269 in ubuntu "[backport]  python-psycopg2 From Feisty to Dapper" [Undecided,Invalid]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/115269
* ajmitch looks at the new core-dev
<ScottK> asisak: Yes.  They'll get pushed through when an archive admin notices as Universe is not frozen, but the archive is on manual.
<asisak> Yes, this is what I was thinking of.
<asisak> So it is not a policy, but a mechanism (that is how the archive works now)
* Hobbsee does the ZOMG TOO MANY BUGS dance
<sladen> well just *complaining* about it won't help :-
<sladen> :-P
<ScottK> asisak: Yes.
<ScottK> You can't put one component of the archive on manual
<Hobbsee> sladen: yes, rm -rf'ing
<Hobbsee> does
* sladen grins
<soren> ScottK: I see. I didn't even know that :)
<ScottK> soren: There's all kinds of trouble I can get you in now.
<soren> ScottK: <g>
<ScottK> Good night all.  I'm off to bed.
<soren> ScottK: Good night!
<ajmitch> night ScottK
<RAOF> And that's why we don't use -accel glx:fbo, children.
<dholbach> good morning
<RAOF> Morning!
<TheMuso> Hey dholbach.
<\sh> moins dholbach
<dholbach> heya RAOF, TheMuso, \sh - how are you doing guys?
* \sh needs to search a new job...since combots will end on the 31.01.2008
<RAOF> dholbach: Eh, marking sucks.  Also, it's hard to find actual policy doucments about udev usage.
<TheMuso> dholbach: Well thanks.
<dholbach> RAOF: marking?
<RAOF> Of first year algebra tests.
<dholbach> RAOF: udev.... I guess you best ask Keybuk about that
<pwnguin> heh
<RAOF> Yup indeed :)
<pwnguin> i told you
<pwnguin> the udev policy is ask keybuk
<RAOF> Oh, yeah.  I just thought the udev policy might be contained in more than one brain :)
<dholbach> RAOF: you'll be the 2nd one then :)
<RAOF> Also, it's hard to find *Debian's* udev policy.
<pwnguin> if dh_installudev is broke, shouldnt there be a bug in debhelper about fixing or removing it?
<RAOF> Yeah.  It seems all the debian bugs on installudev have been fixed, and there are no launchpad bugs.
<pwnguin> but still
<pwnguin> its a landmine
<RAOF> We could just treat them as conffiles, and let dpkg magic do it's thing.
<norsetto> morning folks and folkessines
<RAOF> Evening norsetto
<pwnguin> i need to actually read the udev documentation
<RAOF> Welcome to #ubuntu-motu, your non-stop udev chat channel!
<norsetto> raof: lol
<pwnguin> because im pretty sure the rules upstream suggested are broke =/
<RAOF> pwnguin: For your package, perhaps.  KVM is a nice simple case :)
<pwnguin> i could bring up pam instead
<pwnguin> well, i dont like the idea of yet another group
<RAOF> Oh, you want thinkfinger to work, don't you?
<pwnguin> it does
<pwnguin> ive very nearly cleared most of the hurdles
<pwnguin> gnome-screensaver being the lone holdout
<pwnguin> but im not sure about the security implications of leaving it user readable
<huats> Hey everyone
<dholbach> hey huats
<norsetto> huats: hey, just looking at your patch
<huats> norsetto: ok thanks
<norsetto> huats: what do you mean by menu 2.1.35?
<norsetto> dholbach: morning Master
<dholbach> norsetto: !
* dholbach hugs norsetto and huats
<dholbach> how are you doing guys?
* norsetto feels better after the hug :-)
<huats> norsetto: http://people.debian.org/~terpstra/message/20070705.083355.0374f2de.en.html it deals with the version of menu
* huats things that a morning hug is essential for a good start in a day of labour
<norsetto> huats: ok, so that the menu version, its not the policy
<huats> I am happy, I have been able to solve the leak problems in my bathroom :-)
<huats> dholbach: what abot you
<huats> ?
<dholbach> huats: I'm great - thanks :)
<dholbach> had a nice and early breakfast in the sun this morning
<huats> norsetto: yes it is the menu version. but it is how I found it refered
<huats> dholbach: really, it was sunny ? you are lucky :-(
<norsetto> huats: yeah, bit lousy if you ask me
<dholbach> yeah, the weather is just gorgeous in Berlin today
<norsetto> dholbach: how's that called, indian summer?
<dholbach> norsetto: yeah, something like that :)
<pwnguin> how hard are the deadlines for gutsy?
<dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyReleaseSchedule
<huats> dholbach: same name in french
<pwnguin> like if i wanted to request a sync from debian of a package not in ubuntu at all at this stage, is that just impossible?
<dholbach> we can break freezes but you need to have very good reasons
<dholbach> we're in new packages freeze too
<norsetto> huats: was the icon in the tarball?
<dholbach> people are busy with other things, but if you have a good reason, ask for an exception
<dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
<huats> norsetto: in the original tarball ?
<pwnguin> ive already done one, so i wont bother anyone then
<norsetto> huats: yes
<huats> norsetto: no it was not
<norsetto> huats: where is it coming then?
<huats> norsetto: the package was relying on a gtk stock button... that is provoded by a big gnome package...
<huats> norsetto: so after asking around finally riddell tolm me to include the icon in the package
<dholbach_> pwnguin: what do you mean by 'I won't bother anyone then'?
<huats> norsetto: in order to remove the dependency on that big package
<norsetto> huats: ok, so there is no need to mention any copyright or author?
<huats> I don't think so...
<pwnguin> dholbach: you guys sound busy enough without me pestering about putting games into universe when they're already in my ppa
<pwnguin> freeze exists for a reason, after all
<dholbach> pwnguin: we'll automatically have it in hardy, but if you think it's worthwhile, you can always try
<pwnguin> i think i'll focus on getting thinkfinger into hardy
<pwnguin> in a working shape
<norsetto> huats: just to be sure, I think it is better to mention something in the changelog
<norsetto> huats: what was the package where you got that from?
<huats> norsetto: gnome-icon-theme-gperfection2 or gnome-icon-theme (they both provide it)
<norsetto> huats: I modified that line with: Add icon "stock_send-fax.xpm" from gnome-icon-theme in /debian
<huats> ok
<slytherin> Does anyone have enough time to test some theora packages? The packaging may not be very perfect, so I am looking for some feedback.
<norsetto> huats: I'm building right now and if everythin is ok I will upload it. I only reworded the changelog and the dpatch description. Thanks for your work!
<huats> ok
<huats> norsetto: looking to see the reword in orderto improve
<huats> :-)
<norsetto> huats: don't worry, its just me being anal retentive. btw, you will send this to debian, yes?
<huats> norsetto: of course
<huats> norsetto: but I will have a word with you about that
<norsetto> huats: there we go, I'm not a virgin anymore, my first upload (hope I didn't screw anything .....)
<huats> norsetto: hey hey
* huats hugs norsetto for this event
* huats also hugs dholbach because he deserves it
<dholbach> hehe... thanks huats
* dholbach hugs huats back
<norsetto> huats: champagne! gazeuse for the abstemious!
<huats> norsetto: I'll take one....
<dholbach> :-)
* norsetto is having a beer :-)
<huats> Hobbsee: if you have any problem/question with bug #121984, juste ask :-) I am the one who created the debdiff...
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 121984 in kdepim "kandy: no icon in kubuntu feisty's kde menu" [Wishlist,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121984
<Hobbsee> huats: OK.
<huats> Hobbsee: and hello by the way :-)
<Hobbsee> hiya
* norsetto gives a beer to Hobbsee too. Or she prefers a sherry (yuch)?
<Hobbsee> coke's good.
* Hobbsee doesnt drink beer.
<norsetto> huats: what was it you wanted to talk about?
<huats> norsetto: oh, that was about the procedure to send something to debian...
<huats> norsetto: I have to admit that I found it a bit blurry
* Hobbsee --> gone
<norsetto> huats: just send and email to the BTS (which is what I do) or use reportbug
<norsetto> huats: here a link that should help: http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting
<huats> I definitly have to give a deeper look at that link...
<huats> norsetto: but it is a way to report the bug, not to mention the fix...
<norsetto> huats: so the problem is the content, not the procedure?
<huats> let's say both :-)
<huats> if you keep in archive a mail you have already send to BTS can you forward it to me ?
<norsetto> huats: I don't think I keep copies of those, let me check
<huats> ok
<norsetto> huats: no, no local copies, but in this case is pretty simple, just forward them your dpatch patch, the icon and the menu files. Its really up to them how they use them
<huats> norsetto: not the changelog ? or the debdiff ?
<norsetto> huats: you can mention it to the maintainer, and it would be easier for us if they would use what we used, but more than asking we cannot do
<norsetto> huats: what will they do with it?
<huats> norsetto: don't know :-)
<norsetto> huats: of course you can add a link to the Ubuntu bug report
<huats> norsetto: ok
<huats> norsetto: I'll do that during lunch break (at least I'll try)
<norsetto> huats: please do, its important we keep in sync
<huats> of course
* dholbach likes the look of http://daniel.holba.ch/sponsoring very much - it's much cleaner now :-)
<norsetto> dholbach: if you are in a cleaning frenzy, you can as well upload the fix to bug 141015; lutin agreed to it
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 141015 in ubuntu-dev-tools "Correctly pass path to dch" [Undecided,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141015
<dholbach> lutin could upload it himself then, no? :)
* dholbach looks at the needs-packaging bugs now
<norsetto> dholbach: well, just wanted to profit from your cleaning momentum ;-)
<dholbach> hehehe :)
* StevenK sighs.
<StevenK> WoW 2.2.0 does not want to complete loading under Wine.
<pwnguin> sounds like a productivity boost!
<StevenK> pwnguin: Shush.
<ajmitch> StevenK: wfm
<ajmitch> however you're trying to load it at the prime lag time of the day
<pwnguin> besides, if you tell the world it even worked in ubuntu, my roommate would bug me to make it work and play with him
<ajmitch> and we just had the server go boom for outland on khaz, no npcs, portals back to azeroth, etc
<ajmitch> all in all, a quality patch
<StevenK> ajmitch: Yeah, but I've never had it just hang at the loading bar and not jump in before
<ajmitch> I have
<StevenK> And how did you fix it? :-)
<ajmitch> gave up & came back a bit later :)
<ajmitch> only 100k to go to level 62 :)
* StevenK had a plan to hit level 31 tonight
<ajmitch> pwnguin: oh it generally works very well in ubuntu :)
<ajmitch> it's usually blizzard that falls down
<StevenK> Mmmmm. I might blame it on Dath'Remar being broken
<ajmitch> I would
* StevenK tries to talk to Nagrand
<dholbach> no wonder there are so many open bugs in Ubuntu - WoW works far too well in Ubuntu :)
<StevenK> Which does the same thing. Ho hum
* ajmitch whistles
<StevenK> No NPCs must be fun.
<StevenK> Does that mean no mobs either?
<ajmitch> yeah, but also no ore nodes
<jussi01> dholbach: dont tell me you havent had a go at it yourself.... :P
<dholbach> jussi01: I seriously haven't
<ajmitch> dholbach: stay away from it
<dholbach> don't worry about me
<StevenK> ajmitch: Then what's the point? :-)
<jussi01> lol
<ajmitch> StevenK: all these people in shattrath, stuck there because they couldn't get back :)
<jussi01> dholbach: its more addictive than heroin
<StevenK> ajmitch: Heh
* StevenK notes that Dath'Remar is the only realm in the list that is listed as being Max (Queued)
<ajmitch> ouch
<TheMuso> Ok. About to test my code for ubuntustudio-menu and xdg symlinking stuff.
<TheMuso> woops wrong window.
<TheMuso> wrong channel even
<MenZa> Hi, I was wondering if anyone might be interested in packaging gelemental (GTK periodic table, far better than gperiodic which is currently in the repos) and sticking it in the repositories?
<MenZa> (one for the science team here)
<norsetto> Menza: why not rasing a [need-packaging]  bug in Launchpad?
<MenZa> norsetto: I suppose that's not a bad idea; I'll do so immediately
<MenZa> (I wasn't sure how you'd go about requesting packages)
<MenZa> norsetto: Under the MOTU team?
<norsetto> menza: what do you mean!?
<MenZa> Er, nevermind that
<norsetto> menza: this is a good example: bug 138761
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 138761 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging]  iTest" [Wishlist,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/138761
<MenZa> norsetto: I've reported it.
<MenZa> Thanks. :)
<norsetto> menza: thx to u
<MenZa> :)
<proppy> hiya
<norsetto> menza: next time pls. do not assign it to motu
<norsetto> proppy: Ola
<MenZa> norsetto: shall do
<Lutin> dholbach: I don't really feel like uploading ubuntu-dev-tools for a onliner patch ;)
<pkern> dholbach: I hope I had a point in my mail and that it's not too confusing. o_O
<huats> norsetto: I have a problem... I have unwillingly removed my efax-gtk working dir.... So I cannot find my patch, the icon, and the menu  anymore.. .Do you still have thata round ?
<norsetto> huats: just take it from the package, I think it has been published already
<huats> norsetto: ok, I have to recheck
<huats> norsetto: ok I have been able to get it thanks
<norsetto> huats: np
<ScottK> Lutin: I've been looking at the pbuiler-dist script.  I can possibly have a patch to make it work with Debian later today if that'd make ubuntu-dev-tools worth uploading?
<Lutin> ScottK: right
<ScottK> I'll see what I can do.
<Lutin> no need to hurry though
<dholbach> Lutin: at least we can commit the patch to the branch, so it'll be contained in the next upload
<dholbach> pkern: I'll have a look in a bit
<Lutin> dholbach: yep. will do :)
<dholbach> rock on
<Kopfgeldjaeger> hi
<pkern> Uh, thanks dholbach (:
<dholbach> pkern: you deserved it :)
<pkern> soren: ping
<soren> pkern: pong
<soren> pkern: I didn't get around to looking at your patch yet, sorry. My TODO list refused to shrink yesterday. :)
<pkern> soren: Ok. (:
* proppy hugs dholbach
* dholbach hugs proppy back
<dfiloni> ciao a tutti
<dfiloni> sorry
<dfiloni> hi to all
<ScottK> dholbach: Got a second to discuss packaging guide (rather than continue to fail to communicate via e-mail)?
<dholbach> ScottK: sure
<ScottK> The thing I'm trying to figure out is if you think the Ubuntu packaging guide (or whatever we call it) should be a complete guide to how to package or more of a here's the stuff that's different from Debian guide?
<dholbach> ScottK: I think we should go through step 1 first: aggregate everything we have and then decide from there on; I'd like it to be a well-rounded guide to get people started, that refers to debian policy, etc for things that we just can't afford to duplicate
<dholbach> ScottK: does that make sense?
<ScottK> I'm trying to understand where we are headed.  As step 1, that makes sense.
<ScottK> I think we should aim to duplicate as little as possible.
<ScottK> Which is at odds with your well rounded guide idea.
<dholbach> I think it should still be readable
<dholbach> and helpful to read it on its own (even if you might not get all the facts 100%)
<dholbach> but yeah, given that we're not 200 people who like writing docs, we should duplicate as little as possible
<ScottK> I agree there's a balance here.
<dholbach> it might not be easy to get the balance right between both goals, but I think that both are quite important
<ScottK> I'd suggest we should start with something like "Look at the Debian New Maintainers Guide, but skip sections X, Y, and Z as they don't apply to Ubuntu."
<ScottK> Then here's the extra Ubuntu stuff you need to know....
<ScottK> As an end goal.
<dholbach> I don't think that there's a lot of delta between "debian packaging" and "ubuntu packaging", what I feel we have a need for is having a guide that helps people get started quickly, by playing with the tools, etc
<dholbach> ScottK: what do you think about that?
<ScottK> I'd suggest something like that that gets people started with merging/fixing with New Maintainers Guide as the starting point for doing new packages.
<ScottK> One mistake I think we make is to try and have new packages be the first thing people do.
<pkern> Having it in the Wiki creates licence problems with the Debian guide. \:
<ScottK> pkern: We don't need to copy it, just link to it.
<pkern> i.e. one couldn't copy parts of the Debian guide.
<ScottK> One shouldn't
<pkern> ScottK: Yeah, ok, if that's clear.
<ScottK> Then we'd have to figure out how to stay in sync with updates which is the entire thing to avoid.
<pkern> Hm, yep.
<pkern> OTOH spreading information over various links disturbes too. Normally you want a continuous document, I guess.
<dholbach> ScottK: what problem do you think the UPGIAIW (ubuntu packaging guide in an ideal world) should solve specifically? :)
<ScottK> I think it should solve two problems:
<dholbach> apart from informing about differences between ubuntu and debian packaging?
<ScottK> 1.  Hi, I'm new where do I start to help out.
<ScottK> 2.  I want to make a new package for Ubuntu, what do I need to know.
<dholbach> ok, that sounds great to me
<ScottK> 1. should be pretty self contained.
<ScottK> 2.  Should be the read the DNMG - irrelevant bits + here's some Ubuntu stuff.
<ScottK> 1 should be about patching, debdiffing, merging, etc.
<ion_> Are there any REVU reviewers interested of reviewing my hardware-connected and apt-mark-sync packages online? Ive posted the URLs every once in a while, but theyve gone pretty much unnoticed.
<dholbach> ion_: you could ask mvo for the apt-mark-sync package
<dholbach> ScottK: I can agree with your ideas about it
<ion_> dholbach: Thanks, but why mvo?
<dholbach> ScottK: we should try to write a UPGIAIWPhase2 spec about it
<ScottK> OK.
<dholbach> ion_: he's quite apt with apt
<ScottK> ion_: Everyone is pretty much focused on getty Gutsy fixed and out the door right now.  This is not the best time to be asking for new package reviews.
<ion_> scottk: I see.
<dholbach> ScottK: to sum up the goals and re-review it once we have the merged PackagingGuide in our hands
<ScottK> dholbach: Sounds good.  I am still considering coming up for part of UDS, so maybe there we can have a draft.
<dholbach> woah nice
<_MMA_> ScottK: Md->Boston. 8hr drive or so. Not too bad. :) Or will you fly?
<ScottK> _MMA_: Dunno.  It depends on how long I will stay and how much it costs.
<pkern> Does anyone know where UDS+1 will be located?
<ScottK> Any suggestions for a US mirror that isn't in the Canonical data center?
<zul> us.archive.ubuntu.com or something liek that?
<soren> se.archive.ubuntu.com
<ion_> Yeah, since Sweden is a US state.
<soren> No matter where you're connecting from in the world, the Swedish mirror might very easily be faster.
<soren> ion_: Suuuure..
<ScottK> zul: us.archive.ubuntu.com is timing out for me right now.
<ScottK> Nevermind.  Worked that time.
<soren> ScottK: Dude. s/us/se/ ftw.
<ScottK> Yeah.  Got that.
<zul> ca.archive.ubuntu.com also
<soren> They've got a pipe the size of... umm.. a really big pipe!
<propp1> hi
<proppy> I'm having trouble with a cdbs patch I wrote which add autotools support
<proppy> the debian/patches remove the upstream Makefile and add configure.ac + Makefile.am
<proppy> autoconf/make generate a new Makefile file
<proppy> and thus the patch failed to reverse apply
<proppy> when calling debuild clean
<proppy> any ideas ?
<proppy> Maybe I should delete the autoconf generated Makefile in a target somehow
<proppy> +clean
<imbrandon> erm thunderbird is gonna be a spinoff company ?
<proppy> is reverse-config the first target called by debhelper when running debuild clean ?
<proppy> is there any target I can use to execute a command just before it ?
<StevenK> proppy: It depends on the debian/rules file.
<StevenK> proppy: The clean target is the first one run when you run debuild clean
<proppy> StevenK: http://unittestcpp.aminche.com/unittest++/debian/rules
<proppy> StevenK: when I override the clean target it says that I already got a clean:: ruesl
<proppy> are :: rules kind of override ?
<proppy> digging into dhelper.mk
<StevenK> Ahh. CDBS
<StevenK> proppy: There is probably a pre-clean-hook target or so.
<soren> StevenK: Nono, it's "Yay! CDBS!".
<proppy> StevenK: clean:: testdir testroot cleanbuilddir reverse-config
<proppy> found that in buildcore.ml
<StevenK> soren: :-P
<proppy> is reverse-config called in last or in first ?
<soren> proppy: Assume they're all done simultaneously. That way, you can't get it wrong.
<proppy> I should figure how to call make distclean or maintainer-clean
<proppy> *before* the patch is reverse applied
<proppy> soren: I have to figure how to change the order
<proppy> soren: cause If I call reverse-config *before* make distclean it fails
<proppy> soren: and if call make distclean after having the makefile removed it also failed
<soren> proppy: So reverse-config needs distclean to be called first?
<proppy> soren: yes i presume the package is build like this
<soren> proppy: Then state that in your makefile.
<proppy> patch
<proppy> autoreconf
<soren> reverse-config:: distclean
<proppy> ./configure
<soren> There.
<proppy> I guess is has to be cleaned it the reverse order
<proppy> distclean then revert the patch
<soren> Yes.
<soren> A makefile consists of two major things:
<soren> A list of dependencies
<soren> a list of ways to generate foo using bar.
<soren> What you have right there is a dependency.
<soren> reverse-config needs distclean to be done.
<soren> Hence..
<soren> reverse-config:: distclean
<soren> If you want to be able to make presumptions about the order in which anything at all in a makefile happens, you need to specify it in terms of dependencies.
<proppy> I see
<proppy> like cascaded dependencies?
<soren> You could call it that, yes.
<soren> A makefile is essentially logical programming.
<proppy> I must then figure out which debian rules call distclean
<proppy> soren: but I guess there will be some conflict
<soren> You tell the interpreter how certain things relate to each other in terms of dependencies and transformation rules.
<soren> the interpreter then uses that information to generate whatever you ask it to.
<proppy> soren: cause currently without the additionnal reverse-config rules, the clean rules called reverse-config -> then -> distclean
<soren> Where's this rules file?
<soren> I'd like to see it.
<proppy> so if you tell reverse-config :: clean
<soren> It makes it easier to explain stuff.
<proppy> it will make kindof circular dependency
<proppy> sure
<proppy> http://unittestcpp.aminche.com/UnitTest++/debian/rules
<soren> Ok.
<soren> You have two options:
<soren> a) Don't use cdbs's autotools magic. That's where the "clean:: distclean" rule is defined, probably.
<proppy> thanks for taking a look
<soren> b) (a.k.a. the solution you want) add a rule:
<soren> cleanbuilddir/packagename:: reverse-config
<soren> That ought to do it.
<soren> Somewhere in cdbs, there is a:
<soren> "clean:: cleanbuilddir" sort of dependency, I believe.
<proppy> yep
<proppy> (04:13:41 PM) proppy: StevenK: clean:: testdir testroot cleanbuilddir reverse-config
<proppy> in buildcore.ml
<proppy> mk
<soren> Uh... I thought reverse-config was your rule.
<proppy> nop it's a debhelper rules I guess
<proppy> I just noticed that is the rules which try to revert-apply my autotools patch
<proppy> during debuild clean
<soren> Ok... I've clearly missed something here.
<soren> e.g. the bit where you explain what you're actually trying to do, and what the problem is :)
<proppy> ok
<proppy> I've got a package with no autotools support
<proppy> I add autotools need files with cdbs-simplepatchsys and this patch
<soren> Why are you using /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/autotools.mk then?
<trunx> hallihallo
<proppy> http://unittestcpp.aminche.com/UnitTest++/debian/patches/01-autotools.patch
<soren> proppy: What does upstream use to build it?
<soren> proppy: A simple makefile?
<proppy> a simple Makefile
<soren> so... why don't you?
<proppy> which my patch do remove
<soren> https://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml#id2528304
<proppy> I was interested into providing autotools support
<proppy> but the upstream kinda ignored it
<soren> Ok...
<soren> Ok, let's go with that.
<soren> Go on.
<proppy> You mean drop the autotools support
<proppy> ?
<proppy> and go for the native upstream provided solution ?
<soren> I wouldn't bother, but if you do, that's fine.
<soren> As in: "I wouldn't bother adding autotools support."
<soren> ...but I don't know the package. It might make sense.
<proppy> I see
<proppy> I just though thing will be easier to package if I got autotools
<soren> Not necessarily, no.
<proppy> yep seems so
<soren> If the makefile system is sane, it's pretty easy to use that.
<proppy> by Go on you mean go on explain my problem ?
<proppy> or Go on and drop autotools ?
<proppy> :)
<soren> and then there's no point in adding the autotools maintenance overhead.
<soren> go on explaining your problem :)
<proppy> so once applied 01-autotools.patch
<proppy> remove the upstream Makefile
<proppy> and create configure.ac Makefile.am and other needed files
<soren> http://unittestcpp.aminche.com/UnitTest++/debian/patches/01-autotools.patch 404's
<proppy> back
<proppy> the the configure rules call autoreconf --install
<proppy> which generate ./configure file
<jussi01> Hmmm, here is the tail of a build error im getting, anyone got an idea on how to fix it? : http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/38643/
<proppy> and ./configure
<proppy> which generate the Makefile
<proppy> the package is built
<proppy> and when calling clean rules
<proppy> it try to reverse apply the patch
<proppy> and then call distclean
<proppy> which clearly failed
<proppy> cause it can't revert apply a patch which is removing a Makefile
<soren> proppy: Ah... Eeek.
<StevenK> jussi01: It looks like hydrogen is using the older FLAC API
<proppy> when another Makefile was generated
<proppy> so my guess it the operation has to be called in the reverse order
<proppy> they were call before building
<proppy> distclean
<proppy> then reverse-apply-patch
<proppy> does it make sense ?
<soren> proppy: Ok, now I see the problem.
<jussi01> StevenK: ok. how do I go about fixing it?
<proppy> soren: thanks for listenning
<soren> proppy: I'm on my way out the door right now, actually. I'll think about your problem until tomorrow.
<StevenK> jussi01: Fix the code to not use old include files and old API calls.
<soren> Do you have a source package for it I can play with?
<proppy> soren: oh thanks
<proppy> soren: and sorry for making you late :)
<jussi01> :(
<proppy> soren: yep sure
<proppy> soren: let me generate it
<proppy> and then follow instruction on http://unittestcpp.aminche.com/
<soren> proppy: Cool. /msg me the link
* soren wanders off
<proppy> then is a web page with the deb line
<proppy> just add -src to it
<proppy> soren: If you got a public ssh key
<proppy> soren: I'll give you root access to the vserver
<soren> proppy: Don't do that. I'm evil.
* soren really wanders off
<proppy> soren: thanks
<bddebian> Heya gang
<norsetto> bddebian: hey bd
<bddebian> Heya norsetto
<mody> hi all, I have problem mounting my USB flash memory of 1 G, can somebody help
<norsetto> would anyone know of a good example of a source package with the following binary packages: runtime, shared library and docs?
<bddebian> mody: Did you ask in #ubuntu?
<mody> bddebian, how to join this channel - should I type /joint @ubuntu - or what
<bddebian>  /join #ubuntu, yep :-)
<mody> bddebian, thanks - I will try there
<proppy> soren: dget http://unittestcpp.aminche.com/unittest++_1.3.0-1.dsc
<Kopfgeldjaeger> could someone review (tell me what i could do better) my avidemux package? http://xeve.de/down/demux/
<Kopfgeldjaeger> the today svn version does not compile (so it's not absolutely up2date, but from yesterday)
<leleobhz> im modifying a package
<leleobhz> an i need to fixup the menu entry
<leleobhz> change debian/app.desktop and debian/menu.in dont work
<leleobhz> how can i fix a menu entry of a package?
<ogra> define "fixup" :)
<bddebian> You need to modify or add the .desktop file.  We don't use the menu files
<ogra> what do you want to achieve, what exactly doesnt work
<leleobhz> the package actually create a menu entry
<leleobhz> the menu entry call /usr/bin/app
<leleobhz> i want it call /usr/bin/aoss /usr/bin/app
<leleobhz> let-me paste
<leleobhz> http://pastebin.ca/716132
<ogra> well, changing the Exec statement in the .desktop file should suffice
<leleobhz> but every time i modify the .desktop
<ogra> unless it uses a different .desktop file (one that upstream ships) instead of the one in the debian dir
<leleobhz> it comes back to original after dpkg-buildpackage
<leleobhz> leleobhz@zorg:~/TRABALHO/DEVELOPMENT/COMPILACOES/UBUNTU/pacotes/praat-feisty/praat-4.6.21/debian$ dpkg -L praat | grep desktop
<leleobhz> /usr/share/applications/praat.desktop
<ogra> is there a debian/praat.desktop.in file ?
<leleobhz> leleobhz@zorg:~/TRABALHO/DEVELOPMENT/COMPILACOES/UBUNTU/pacotes/praat-feisty/praat-4.6.21/debian$ ls
<leleobhz> changelog  control    dirs.in     manpage.xsl  NEWS     patches    praat.desktop   praat.xpm  watch
<leleobhz> compat     copyright  install.in  menu.in      patched  praat.dbk  praat.manpages  rules      What_s_new_.html
<ogra> how exactly do you proceed to change it ?
<leleobhz> edited praat.desktop directly
<ogra> you make your change, build a new source package and buid that ?
<ogra> *build
<leleobhz> make the change and build with pdebuild
<ogra> well, i'd check for another .desktop file in the upstream source
<leleobhz> ogra: i only use pdebuilder (dpkg-buildpackage)
<leleobhz> leleobhz@zorg:~/TRABALHO/DEVELOPMENT/COMPILACOES/UBUNTU/pacotes/praat-feisty/praat-4.6.21$ find ./ -iname "*.desktop"
<leleobhz> ./debian/praat.desktop
<leleobhz> ogra: have no other .desktop
<ogra> hmm
<leleobhz> the makefile original dont create anything about menus
<leleobhz> the strange thing is
<leleobhz> build/praat:: praat.1
<leleobhz>         for i in dirs install menu ; do                                 \
<leleobhz>                 $(SUBSTCMD) < $(DEBDIR)/$$i.in > $(DEBDIR)/praat.$$i ;  \
<leleobhz>         done
<leleobhz> it makes something with the menu.in
<bddebian> Are you looking at debian/rules?  More than likely it just installs the .desktop file that exists in debian/
<leleobhz> well
<leleobhz> this last line are from debian/rules
<leleobhz> i think is easy to copy a file to app dir
<leleobhz> but i dont understand why the content of praat.desktop are regenerated every time
<leleobhz> i compile
<bddebian> is this the current ubuntu source package you are using to build with?
<leleobhz> more or less
<leleobhz> bddebian: ive updated it a loooooooot
<leleobhz> today its in version 4.6.24 and the repos version is 4.5.anything
<leleobhz> almost 1 year old
<bddebian> Gutsy has 4.6.12
<leleobhz> its a unnoficial update
<leleobhz> bddebian: too old yet
<leleobhz> a new version is launched every 15 days or a little more
<leleobhz> 4.6.12 is from july 27
<bddebian> In the Gutsy source package the .desktop file is static and doesn't get touched.  Whatever is in debian/praat.desktop is what gets installed in /usr/share/applications/praat.desktop
<leleobhz> the .24 is from sept 24
<leleobhz> strange
<bddebian> If you are using an upstream tarball that has a debian/ dir in the original tarball, you are on your own :-)
<Kopfgeldjaeger> somebody here with too much time? ;) I'd like to have my avidemux package reviewed (tell me what i could do better)... *.diff.gz, *.orig.tar.gz and *.dsc at http://xeve.de/down/demux/
<leleobhz> bddebian: havent
<pkern> Kopfgeldjaeger: You should upload it to REVU and ping again (and probably explain what changes you introduced if you want it to be in Gutsy). (Didn't take a look at it, though.)
<bddebian> leleobhz: So how did you update from .12 to .24 then?
<leleobhz> bddebian: i say, the original tarball of app dont have the debian folder
<leleobhz> i aways do uupdate frol a old version
<leleobhz> i have some mine patchs, and these files dont change a lot...
<Kopfgeldjaeger> pkern: i think its too late for gutsy, but i'd like to see it in gutsy. @REVU: i thought this was only for new packages (i created the package myself, but an older version of avidemux is already in the repositories.)
<pkern> Kopfgeldjaeger: It's not only for new packages.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> ok :)
<ScottK> Kopfgeldjaeger: Did you check to see if Debian had a newer version than Ubuntu?  If so, you'd be well advised to base your work on that.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> ScottK: debian does not have avidemux in the repositories, as far as i could see
<ScottK> OK.
* ScottK didn't look.
<ScottK> You might work on getting it in there then.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> yes, this would be even cooler than only in ubuntu ;) but firstly, it should be reviewed per REVU. i read the packaging tips/other sites on packaging
<K0brik> are you publishing software which is not secure?
<ScottK> Why do you ask?
<K0brik> you're a bunch of crack-hoes if yes
<ScottK> If we were, would we admit it?
<K0brik> because I'm the big exterminator
<ogra1> K0brik, so you want to join the security team ?
<K0brik> aren't you enough already?
<K0brik> I mean on the team of distributers
<K0brik> ors lol
<ogra1> K0brik, indeed not
<K0brik> wouldn't it be stupid to distribute software which is not considered secure?
<ogra1> K0brik, there can never be enough people squashing security bugs
<ogra1> ask microsoft ?
<K0brik> I doesnt trust microsoft half as much as you
<K0brik> ogra1: I know. But arent the various projects giving green light when enough Ubuntu trusted developers has given the review OK stamp?
<ogra1> well, all software has bugs all the time ...  we surely wont release with known security holes, but you cant predict the undiscovered ones
<K0brik> yes you can
<ogra1> thats where help from the community is required to tet and find them
<ogra1> *test
<K0brik> you can predict it by looking at reviews from trusted developers
<ogra1> how would you predict it by that ? if they didnt find a security hole, how would i predict it `?
<ogra1> i'm talking about *undiscovered* security flaws
<K0brik> predict doesn't have to mean 100% sure but 99%
<Kopfgeldjaeger> avidemux does not have copyright statements in the source files... should i write a patch to add them, or...?
<ogra1> ask upstream to add them
<K0brik> one Ubuntu trusted developer / reviewer could cover anothers faulty OK stamp
<K0brik> or maybe it's just standart to publish insecure stuff
<K0brik> ard
<ogra1> what makes you think that ?
<K0brik> your statements about prediction
<Kopfgeldjaeger> could a REVU admin "re-sync the REVU uploaders keyring"? i just joined the U.U.C. group
<K0brik> not that I care much but bugs are so annoying to have in your face
<K0brik> especially fatal security bugs / cracks
<bluekuja> Kopfgeldjaeger: re-syncing it
<Kopfgeldjaeger> bluekuja: thank you
<K0brik> but I respect you for the great work I must admit!
<pkern> siretart: The REVU keyring sync is still once a day, right?
<bluekuja> Kopfgeldjaeger: np :)
<bluekuja> pkern: yup
<pkern> bluekuja: ;)
<siretart> should be, yes
<siretart> bluekuja can check, though
<bluekuja> yup, gonna check it after the sync
* K0brik just did a find -exec perl -pi -e 's///' {} /;)
<pkern> bluekuja: Also the point in time would be interesting and could be added to the documentation.
<bluekuja> pkern: yeah, you're right. A lot of ppl ask for it
<bluekuja> so why dont adding it to the wiki? :)
<pkern> bluekuja: Exactly. I mean `wait until tomorrow' doesn't work with different timezones. ;)
<bluekuja> eheh yeah :)
<bluekuja> pkern: gonna ping you in a while with result
<pkern> Is there a Debian-Ubuntu collaboration officer? ;)
<bluekuja> Kopfgeldjaeger: done
<bluekuja> siretart: where daily hour sync is stored?
<bluekuja> e.g which file
<pkern> In a cron tab probably.
<bluekuja> yeah
<bluekuja> was checking around
<pkern> Look in /var/spool/cron or /etc/crontab
<pkern> Or /etc/cron.daily
<joejaxx> Good Afternoon All
<pkern> Or /etc/cron.d fwiw
<bluekuja> pkern: cant see it inside cron.daily
<bluekuja> and /var/spool/cron is permission denied
<pkern> Yeah looking at other user's crontab needs root.
<bluekuja> yup
<pkern> And it isn't in /etc/cron.d nor in /etc/crontab?
<pkern> (I hadn't it expected in cron.daily anyway.)
<bluekuja> pkern:
<bluekuja> .placeholder
<bluekuja> cron-apt
<bluekuja> postgresql-common
<pkern> Oh please.
<bluekuja> on cron.d
<bluekuja> cant find it
<pkern> k
<bluekuja> we need siretart :)
<bluekuja> pkern: please ?
<pkern> No paste here, I expected more to come. ;)
<bluekuja> oh^^
<bluekuja> you wanted all of them?
<bluekuja> in all files?
<bluekuja> (cron files)
<pkern> No.
<pkern> (:
<bluekuja> k then
<pkern> I would have suggested a grep anyway instead of a ls ;)
<bluekuja> pkern: I love that! (:
<bluekuja> pkern: yea, was checking if everything was there
<bluekuja> before grep
<bluekuja> pkern: anyway lets wait him
<Kopfgeldjaeger> um.. it seems like only the header files of avidemux dont have a copyright statement. the c/c++ files do.
<bluekuja> pkern: do you know debarchiver?
<bluekuja> pkern: or well, are you familiar with it?
<zul> Kopfgeldjaeger: file a bug with debian please
<pkern> bluekuja: Nope, I use reprepro.
<bluekuja> pkern: gonna check that
<bluekuja> pkern: is that ok?
<Kopfgeldjaeger> zul: how do you mean that? debian doesnt have avidemux in the repos, i am creating one...
<bluekuja> pkern: it includes a build-machine on it (like a pbuilder)
<bluekuja> or just a repo?
<pkern> bluekuja: Just a repo.
<bluekuja> pkern: I'm trying to get a working build-system-repo
<pkern> Try dak ;)
<bluekuja> pkern: dak gives you the possibility to build and archive a package?
* pkern giggles.
<bluekuja> pkern: :)
<bluekuja> pkern: I know that dak is used on debian, I was unsure about the process build-repo
<pkern> bluekuja: You may want to ask in #debian-devel on OFTC. I don't know of such a solution. wanna-build/dak of course support that, but they are quite... hard to setup.
<bluekuja> yeah
<bluekuja> I know
<pkern> bluekuja: You could try to setup wanna-build with sbuild.
<pkern> bluekuja: But I guess that would be hard, too.
<pkern> Especially as sbuild is... strange at best.
<bluekuja> pkern: so in fact we havent a perfect solution for this
<pkern> Or write some kind of adapter for pbuilder to query wanna-build. Or just write a bloody build queue manager yourself. ;)
<pkern> bluekuja: PPA
<bluekuja> pkern: yea, needed it on my server
<bluekuja> for some tests
<bluekuja> pkern: I can use a build software and then sync the result on dak/ftparchiver dir
<pkern> Well I know that jd wrote rebuildd, but that's a sightly different target than a wanna-build replacement.
<bluekuja> pkern: checking rebuildd
<bluekuja> atm
<bluekuja> pkern: so is there a way to setup a repo with rebuildd then?
<bluekuja> I gonna check the documentation
<bluekuja> pkern: it looks pretty nice
<bluekuja> pkern: thanks for the hint on this
<pkern> I would suggest a different workflow.
<pkern> Like taking reprepro for the repo, and a dinstall script to process the incoming directory.
<pkern> (Which is called by dput/dupload)
<bluekuja> pkern: that looks nice too
<pkern> Then add hooks so that the packages are registered to build.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> bluekuja: i get an "access forbidden" error when trying to access on of my uploaded files (the others work). it's http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/avidemux-0709262020/avidemux_2.4~svn20070925-0ubuntu1_source.changes
<pkern> And a daemon regularly polls if there is s.th. to do.
<pkern> Builds and uploads the binary package.
<pkern> That's basically the wanna-build workflow.
<pkern> Kopfgeldjaeger: You can't access changes files.
<bluekuja> exactly
<pkern> Kopfgeldjaeger: Out of the simple reason that they might be signed.
<pkern> (Or they are certainly.)
<bluekuja> pkern: let me check some wanna-build stuff
<Kopfgeldjaeger> oh, ok ;) sorry, i didn't know that. but why is bad to publish the signature? i never heard that
<bluekuja> pkern: btw does cowbuilder works fine with rebuildd?
<bluekuja> e.g is it well integrated
<pkern> bluekuja: Well, when it's able to use pbuilder. I don't know it, I never tried rebuildd. I didn't come around to setup an autobuilding repo for my administration work, yet. Just normal ones.
<pkern> Kopfgeldjaeger: I don't know if revu checks the distribution but let's assume I upload a package with unstable in the changes and sign it and upload it to REVU. Then someone could take it and reupload it to Debian because my key is in the ring.
<bluekuja> ok, gonna test it for a while then
<pkern> (That's why I cripple the distribution field in private archives and prefix it.)
<pkern> Kopfgeldjaeger: And if a MOTU would use it to get a package reviewed that package could immediately be uploaded to Ubuntu.
<pkern> (So that one is probably nearer to reality.)
<Kopfgeldjaeger> ok
<Kopfgeldjaeger> the debian/dirs file is for entering needed directories, which will be created while "dpkg-buildpackage"ing it, isn't it? and i can add my files with debian/rules into debian/pkgname/usr/lib/do/not/know then?
<tormod> bryce_: why is there both a perlmagick and a libgraphics-magick-perl package?
<pkern> Kopfgeldjaeger: There are debian/*.install for that.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> pkern: do you have a keyword to search for for such files?
<pkern> Kopfgeldjaeger: man dh_install
<Kopfgeldjaeger> the examples are a bit short, but thanks. and i need to rename a file
<pkern> Kopfgeldjaeger: I would call them concise.
<ScottK> Focused even.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> pkern: it does not tell how to add, e.g., a desktop file - which is not installed my the upstream makefile - which is one of my 'problems'
<jetsaredim> is there a way to get a package that was on feisty brought forward to gutsy?
<bryce_> tormod: no idea; why do you ask?
<geser> jetsaredim: isn't it in gutsy anymore?
<jetsaredim> I'm looking for the vmware-server-kernel-modules package for gutsy
<jetsaredim> but she is na longer there
<tormod> bryce_: they are pretty much the same but only one works with inkscape
<pkern> ttp://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu/pool/main/v/vmware-server/ maybe?
<pkern> Hm, that's probably not gutsy.
<bryce_> tormod: hmm.
<tormod> bryce_: bug 145145
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 145145 in inkscape "ill2svg.pl uses Image::Magick instead of Graphics::Magick" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145145
<bryce_> tormod, well upstream we've dropped perl support, and even in feisty there really isn't much using it, so if it's an issue, you can drop the inkscape varient
<bryce_> oh that
<jetsaredim> pkern: that might help - does that just build against the running kernel?
<bryce_> that only works for old illustrator docs anyway
<bryce_> boy it's a shame we couldn't include a newer inkscape in gutsy; illustrator/pdf support has been completely reworked
<pkern> jetsaredim: The -source does, yes. But it's not guaranteed that it builds correctly against the kernel in gutsy.
<pkern> jetsaredim: We *may* be syncing vmware-package from Debian for gutsy, which would take care of that.
<siretart> bluekuja: pong
<tormod> bryce_: yes I tried it on newer illustrator files today :) which one is the "inkscape variant"?
<pkern> ScottK: ^
<jetsaredim> pkern: any ideas when that will be resolved?
<jetsaredim> i really need my vmware setup working - like last week
<jetsaredim> :)
<pkern> jetsaredim: No.
<pkern> jetsaredim: Well Gutsy isn't released yet, so that's no argument.
<jetsaredim> well
<jetsaredim> the kernel team is listed as the maintainer
<bryce_> tormod, according to what you put in the bug report, it sounds like perlmagick would be the inkscape variant
<jetsaredim> so i kind of figured that it would have been available on gutsy
<ScottK> pkern: I talked to soren about it and he was going to ask around to see what we should do.
<jdong> jetsaredim: vmware-server-kernel-modules is probably going to be done post gutsy release if at all
<pkern> ScottK: Ok.
<jdong> and IIRC it's a -commercial repo thing too
<pkern> jdong: It was in multiverse for feisty.
<jetsaredim> jdong: any ideas why?
<pkern> jdong: At least the modules according to packages.u.c
<jdong> it needs an any-any patch currently to bring it to sync with Gutsy's kernel
<jetsaredim> yea - the actual user-space package was in commercial
<jdong> and probably because it's low-priority for the kernel devs currently
<jetsaredim> any-any?
<jdong> yes
<jdong> they are semi-official external patches to vmware's kernel modules
<jetsaredim> ok
<jdong> they won't compile against 2.6.22 stock
<jetsaredim> ok
<ScottK> jdong: What do you think about backporting python-central to Dapper?  It didn't exist at all, so no regression risk.
<ScottK> It'd make some other stuff easier....
<jetsaredim> jdong: I've patched vmware modules before - maybe I can help
<jdong> contributions are welcome...
<jetsaredim> I really, really need my vmware setup back
<jdong> ScottK: sounds safe to me
<jetsaredim> jdong: not quite sure where to start tho?
<jdong> jetsaredim: #ubuntu-kernel is more appropriate
<jetsaredim> k
<tormod> bryce_: so we should drop the inkscape variant and fix inkscape to use the other? This is not so important, but I just want to file the bug to the right package for the moment.
<bryce_> tormod, if the two packages really are identical...
<bryce_> tormod, I would worry their API's differ, which would require significant rework, which would then get chucked out anyway if/when we get a new inkscape release
<tormod> bryce_: ok, I just leave the bug as it is on inkscape and close it once a new inkscape is out.
<bryce_> ok sounds good
<bryce_> maybe include a summary of our discussion about it, to remind us?
<bluekuja> siretart: about daily sync
<siretart> yes?
<bluekuja> is there a crontab file?
<bluekuja> did not find it
<siretart> hmmmm
<bluekuja> siretart: are you sure it exists?
<bluekuja> :D
<siretart> not anymore... hmm
<bluekuja> hehe
<siretart> bluekuja: did you resync an hour ago?
<bluekuja> siretart: yup
<siretart> ok
<siretart> added to revu1's crontab
<bluekuja> siretart: great, you rock
<bluekuja> siretart: which hour?
<siretart> @daily
<bluekuja> ok
<tormod> bryce, yes I left a comment in the bug report.
<bluekuja> siretart: sounds good, thanks for adding it
<bluekuja> :)
<erable> Hi, I put 2 packages on REVU : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=304 and http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=301
<erable> Can somebody check them ? Thanks
<pochu> jdong: could you please retry tracker backport after updating your pbuilder? re: bug 135171. thanks :-)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 135171 in feisty-backports "Please backport tracker 0.6.1-0ubuntu1 from Gutsy to Feisty" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/135171
<ScottK> pochu: Why don't you wait until they get the final upstream for Gutsy before you do that.  Lots of bugfix goodness coming soon.
<pochu> Hmm, right.
<pochu> jdong: forget it, following ScottK's good suggestion :)
<erable> Hi, I put 2 packages on REVU : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=304 and http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=301
<erable> Can somebody check them ? Thanks
<ScottK> erable: Most developers are focused on getting Gutsy bug fixed and shipped right now.  Focus won't shift back to new packages until after Gutsy release.  Someone may review, but be patient.
<erable> ScottK: ok, I understand. Excuse-me and good work ;-)
<ScottK> erable: No problem, just understand it may be a while.
<leleobhz> someone know the pdebuilder?
<leleobhz> how it works?
<pwnguin> pbuilder?
<leleobhz> yep
<leleobhz> im getting a strange problem with modifications on my package
<leleobhz> my package have a .desktop in the debian/
<leleobhz> if i compile it with dpkg-buildpackage
<leleobhz> the modifications on .desktop get untouched
<leleobhz> if i use pbuilder, it gets the original .desktop
<leleobhz> so, how can i "fix" it
<leleobhz> cypherbios: ehlo!
<cypherbios> hi leleobhz
<leleobhz> cypherbios: want package problems for you?
<leleobhz> :p
<cypherbios> leleobhz: actually I don't, but do I have any choice?
<leleobhz> cypherbios: i at least no :p
<leleobhz> pwnguin: so, did you know why this occours?
<bddebian> leleobhz: Back again eh?  So you update debian/foo.desktop update debian/changelog and bump the version, then do dpkg-buildpackage and then pbuilder build <new version>.dsc and the desktop is the same as before?
<leleobhz> bddebian: hmm, ive not atempt to change the version...
* leleobhz throw a stone on our head
<bddebian> Well I should qualify that.  Are you doing a source only build with dpkg-buildpackage?
<leleobhz> bddebian: (!) ;] 
<leleobhz> thanks
<leleobhz> can i know the cc flags used in a binary file?
<so1> hi
<so1> will gimp stay at rc2 or will it be updated when the final will be released?
<Kmos> so1: it will be updated
<Kmos> until gutsy final version
<Kmos> i'm pretty sure =)
<ScottK> Kmos: Why do you think that?
<Kmos> ScottK: gimp 2.4 is in rc3 and should be final soon
<ScottK> Right, but why do you think Ubuntu will update?
<Kmos> ScottK: I don't know any ubuntu release with gimp in RC
<ScottK> Do you know any Ubuntu release where gimp was RC this close to Ubuntu's release?
* Kmos dinner
<ScottK> so1: Just in case you can't tell, Kmos really has no idea if it'll be updated or not.  Neither do I.
<ScottK> Heh.  http://www.appscout.com/2007/09/excel_cant_multiply.php
<ion_> scottk: The OOXML standard probably contains a multiplyLikeExcel2007 tag. :-)
<ScottK> Ooh.  Good point.
#ubuntu-motu 2007-09-27
<pkern> ScottK: RCPT TO:<obby-announce@list.0x539.de>
<pkern> ScottK: Oops. \:
<pkern> ScottK: http://ubuntu-tutorials.com/2007/09/26/how-to-install-vmware-server-on-ubuntu-710/
<bsnider> when exactly is gutsy beta 1 being released? is it laster tonight or some time tomorrow?
<therethinker> They will release it as soon as you leave town for a week ;-)
<gnomefreak> bsnider: thursday or friday UTC
<therethinker> Away from the internets
<bsnider> how stable is it right now?
<gnomefreak> bsnider: its not hence the work alpha/beta
<gnomefreak> s/work/word
<gnomefreak> its more stable than the tribes before now
<bsnider> the livecd seemed ok as of a couple of days ago
<TheMuso> I haven't seen an announce for it yet.
<imbrandon> moins
<TheMuso> Hey imbrandon.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<ScottK> heya bddebian.
<bddebian> Hi ScottK
<bddebian> Frick', I'm so demotivated
* StevenK rips bddebian a new one.
<StevenK> Does that help?
<bddebian> StevenK: Sure, thanks :-)
<bddebian> StevenK: Now, how to get me a brain?
* StevenK has a flashback to the Wizard of Oz
<bddebian> Why Wizard of Oz?  "If I only had a brain.." type of thing?
<StevenK> bddebian: Yes.
<bddebian> Heh
<bddebian> Oh, did you have any luck with the libapache-asp-foo thing last night?
<StevenK> I stopped looking. I was going to dig again this afternoon.
<StevenK> It's still in my todo list.
<meteorman> anyone see me?
<_MMA_> no
<meteorman> oh, good, thought the cloaking device stopped functiong..
<meteorman> lol
<meteorman> so, does everyone here have private chats going?
<ajmitch> impatient
<ajmitch> hello jml
<jml> ajmitch: hi ho
<bddebian> ajmitch: !
<ajmitch> bddebian: yes?
<bddebian> ajmitch: Just an enthusiastic Hi :-)
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> hello
<bddebian> ajmitch: SHould Bug #104616 be fix released?  You said you uploaded it to debian but I don't see any updates in Debian or Ubuntu
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 104616 in gnue-appserver "[apport]  gnue-appserver crashed with ImportError in <module>()" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/104616
<bddebian> Gah, who the hell keeps marking all these bugs as Fix Comitted when they aren't..
<RAOF> bddebian: Any in particular?  Tracker seems to be a mass of "fix comitted, because it's fixed in SVN" bugs.
<pwnguin> committed isnt released
<bddebian> The fixes are not committed if it's not in the repos afai am concerned
<pwnguin> but id always figured it meant fix uploaded
<bddebian> Right
<pwnguin> repos?
<pwnguin> if its apt-gettable its released
<RAOF> Yes, that's my understanign of what it means too.
<bddebian> Ubuntu repositories.  If its in svn but not Ubuntu it ain't fix committed to me
<TheMuso> IMO fix released means built successfully, but it seems others think otherwise, i.e when using a bug number in a changelog.
<bddebian> Well that's a whole different issue :-)
<TheMuso> causes a bug to have a fix released change.
<bddebian> OMFG I give up
<RAOF> bddebian: if it's any consolation, I don't think anyone likes that fix comitted meaning.
<bddebian> It was fine when it meant it was uploaded to Ubuntu.  I don't know who keeps moving the meanings of everything anymore
<RAOF> AFAIK, that usage is actively incorrect, and it doesn't mean what the changer thinks it means.
<pwnguin> i thought lp autoupdated that stuff
<RAOF> Like "inconcievable"
<pwnguin> what?
<pwnguin> i guess
<RAOF> </princess bride>
<StevenK> RAOF: :-)
<Amaranth> RAOF: did laserjock ask you for an interview right after you joined too?
<RAOF> Amaranth: No, he hasn't.  Not yet, at least.
* RAOF considers filling bigon's RFP for libgnome-keyring-cil
<Amaranth> RAOF: huh
<RAOF> Amaranth: You're just special.
* ajmitch hasn't been asked
<Amaranth> Now that is surprising
<RAOF> Amaranth: Possibly as the person most likely to be thought to be already a MOTU.
* TheMuso hasn't been asked either.
* TheMuso remembers when he fronted the tech board to become a MOTU, and Amaranth thought I was already a MOTU.
<RAOF> .au & .nz just aren't interesting, apparently.
<Amaranth> TheMuso: Hey, that reminds me, you're an a11y guy, right?
* bddebian shouldn't be one
<RAOF> bddebian: Shush!
<TheMuso> Amaranth: Yes indeed. If I am not mistaken, you dropped into #orca on gimpnet the other day did you not?
<Amaranth> TheMuso: I did
<Amaranth> TheMuso: I need to make compiz talk
<TheMuso> Amaranth: As in the window manager part of things?
<Amaranth> TheMuso: apparently just using pango is not enough and i really don't want to subclass atk
<TheMuso> Amaranth: The only thing I can suggest is to see how metacity does it.
<Amaranth> TheMuso: alt-tab and such
<Amaranth> TheMuso: I think they use a GtkLabel
<TheMuso> Amaranth: Well unfortunately I am not entirely up on how the infrastructure works within GNOME.
<TheMuso> I am more an integration/end-user perspecitve person at this point.
<Amaranth> We use pango, snag the cairo context from pango, render it into a texture, and paint that on the screen
<Amaranth> TheMuso: does orca crash and take the app it's speaking with it on gutsy for you too? :)
<Amaranth> well, not crash, freeze
<TheMuso> Amaranth: Occasionally, yes. This is with metacity.
<Amaranth> Does it every 5-15 minutes here
<Amaranth> killing orca unfreezes the app
<TheMuso> Yep, same here.
<TheMuso> I don't think it happens that often for me, but it does happen.
<TheMuso> Usually close to the beginning of my session. Once its been started another time, it doesn't usually happen till I next log out/in.
<TheMuso> And today at least, its only been once, and that was early this morning. My session has been running for almost 5 hours now.
<StevenK> Yay, Amaranth might fix my bug
<Amaranth> it's funny, everyone always complains about metacity's code
<TheMuso> Amaranth: Is it a metacity problem?
<Amaranth> no no
<Amaranth> i just like reading metacity's code
<Amaranth> well, the recent additions to it, anyway
<TheMuso> right
<TheMuso> I've never tried compiz + orca actually.
<Amaranth> the core window management stuff is a mess, the alt-tab popup, window placement algorithm, edge detection, etc code is all very nice and easy to follow
<TheMuso> The window titles/alt tab doesn't speak more than likely however.
<Amaranth> TheMuso: window titles are fine, that's libmetacity
<TheMuso> Amaranth: Right.
<TheMuso> Amaranth: As it is, it would be nice to actually get this fixed at some point, as Orca may end up using the new ezoom plugin that was done as a soc project.
<TheMuso> at some point in the future.
<TheMuso> for magnification.
<Amaranth> right metacity uses a GtkLabel and pulls the Atk context out of it to do further tweaking
* Amaranth cries
* StevenK kills Kmos.
<Amaranth> i wonder if i can fake it
<Amaranth> put a GtkLabel somewhere invisible
<ajmitch> StevenK: why would you do that?
<StevenK> Amaranth: Does compiz already link against libgtk? Because adding a GtkLabel would make you grow one.
<TheMuso> Amaranth: I gather that thats a bad way to code it?
<Amaranth> StevenK: gtk-window-decorator draws the switcher
<TheMuso> Amaranth: as in what you said about what metacity does
<Amaranth> TheMuso: indeed
<StevenK> ajmitch: We are just about to release beta, and he privately mailed me asking me to put the RC of gimp in.
<ajmitch> ah, why would he mail you?
<StevenK> Amaranth: Ah, that's alright then.
<ajmitch> that's just a bit mad
<StevenK> ajmitch: Because I did the upload of rc1
<TheMuso> Amaranth: fun.
<ajmitch> he was promising someone in here earlier that the final release of the gimp would make it into gutsy
<Amaranth> uh, ha?
<bddebian> Heh
<StevenK> Really?
<ajmitch> 08:40 < so1> will gimp stay at rc2 or will it be updated when the final will be released?
<StevenK> That's very interesting, because I don't think it will.
<TheMuso> I think kmos has ruffled the feathers of all who are present. :)
<ajmitch> 08:53 < Kmos> so1: it will be updated
<ajmitch> 08:54 < Kmos> until gutsy final version
<ajmitch> 08:54 < Kmos> i'm pretty sure =)
<ajmitch> TheMuso: nah, he couldn't do that :)
<ajmitch> 09:08 < ScottK> so1: Just in case you can't tell, Kmos really has no idea if it'll be updated or not.  Neither do I.
<TheMuso> ajmitch: Oh I forgot, of course he couldn't. He reads all docs and processes, and follows the rules. :)
* StevenK will ask seb128 about rc3 when he surfaces.
<ajmitch> heh
<ScottK> Ruffled feathers is a VERY mild way of putting it.
<Amaranth> can probably get another release of gimp in, along with the general desktop exception for 2.20.1
<Amaranth> but if the final isn't out when gnome 2.20.1 is...
<StevenK> Amaranth: That's what I'm guessing - I'm happy to jump to rc3 if seb128 is okay with it
<ScottK> Speaking of GIMP, I'd like a 2nd opinion on if I was correct to attribute this bug to gimp-python?
<ScottK> Bug 145376
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 145376 in gimp "[apport]  sphere.py crashed with ImportError in <module>()" [Medium,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145376
<TheMuso> Oh lovely. Examining a package from the rc bugs list, which generates its debian/packagename.install file at build time.
<bddebian> Lucky you :-)
<TheMuso> Oh yeah.
<TheMuso> ScottK: You might want to take a look at codespeak-lib on the rc bugs list. The Debian bug is resolved by commenting out a command that seems to work on i386, but not on ppc, and the builds reflect that for the Ubuntu version. I'm wondering if the issue can be fixed a better way...
<TheMuso> I could apply the fix from Debian, but it doesn't seem logical to me, commenting out something that clearly includes useful material in the package.
<ScottK> Can you make the call arch specific?
<TheMuso> ScottK: Yes, I was thinking of that, but thought a better solution may be possible, and since as far as I know, you are good with python, I'd thought I would ask you.
<ScottK> TheMuso: I didn't realize it was python from the name.
<RAOF> Is there any *particular* reason we have a clearlooks-engine package, last touched in hoary, in Universe?
<ScottK> No one cared enough to write the removal bug?
<TheMuso> ScottK: Yeah it creates a python- binary package name.
<ScottK> Is it hurting anything?
<ScottK> TheMuso: Is codespeak-lib the source package name then?
<RAOF> ScottK: Not really, as far as I can tell.
<bddebian> Gnight folks
<Amaranth> RAOF: I can't find that
<RAOF> Amaranth: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/clearlooks-engine/
<Amaranth> RAOF: apparently it doesn't (never) built?
<TheMuso> ScottK: yes
<RAOF> Amaranth: No, builds successfully on all but lpia according to LP
<Amaranth> RAOF: but the binary was overrided by the gtk2-engines source package
<RAOF> Yes.
<Amaranth> so there is no binary package for clearlooks-engine in Ubuntu
<Amaranth> No wonder no one noticed it :P
<ScottK> Sounds like a good candidate for removal then.
<ScottK> TheMuso: I'll have a look in a minute.
<RAOF> Yeah.  Filing the removal bug now.
<RAOF> In fact, it's doubly obsolete; there was a clearlooks package, too, that got removed in dapper.
<Amaranth> wow
<TheMuso> ScottK: No hurry, but I thought you may be able to work out a better solution.
<ScottK> It's after midnight here.  I'll look at it tonight if I get this package I'm working on done before I run out of steam.  Otherwise I'll probably forget.
<TheMuso> ScottK: It only FTBFS on powerpc, for the reason I explained above, so if not, I just might make it arch specific on top of how it was fixed in Debian.
<ScottK> Theq
<ScottK> TheMuso: Have a look at Debian bug 439400.  Is it worth it?
<ubotu> Debian bug 439400 in wnpp "RFA: codespeak-lib -- The pylib library containing py.test, greenlets and other niceties" [Normal,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/439400
<TheMuso> ScottK: Thats the bug I was referring to...
<ScottK> The request for adoption?
<TheMuso> ScottK: Well it FTBFS on powerpc only, and since I have that arch, I can look at it.
<TheMuso> I didn't see that.
<ScottK> Is it a package you are interested in generally?
<ScottK> Maybe you want to adopt it?
<TheMuso> ScottK: No, I was just going through the rc list.
<ScottK> OK
<TheMuso> Meh probably worth leaving it. It will be synced next cycle, and only ppc misses out.
<ScottK> TheMuso: WIthout the details of what it died on in the build (which aren't in the bug), there's really no way for me to come up with a better solution.
<TheMuso> ScottK: As I said, it will be synced next cycle.
* TheMuso moves on.
<ScottK> I made a new package, built, tested it and added it to the Debian Python Modules Team repo for sponsorship in an hour.  That's kind of cool.
<ScottK> he says to himself idly ...
* RAOF thinks that's cool.
<TheMuso> Is it just me, or is the rc bugs list not showing comments fields for all packages?
<ScottK> It's a python datatype for CIDR matching.  Which, if you need to do CIDR matching seem like it would be handy.
<ScottK> TheMuso: If it's got a comment field under Serious, it won't have it again under Grave if it's in both.
<TheMuso> ah ok
<ScottK> If that's what you are seeing, I believe it's by design.
<ajmitch> due to incompetence of author
<TheMuso> ajmitch: It makes sense actually.
<ajmitch> I've had requests to change it to comments per bug
<TheMuso> ajmitch: I can understand people's thoughts on that, but still seems fine to me now I know how its set up.
<ajmitch> what needs fixed on it?
<ScottK> ajmitch: If you were going to change it, I'd put the grave bugs at the top so comments go next to those.
<ScottK> StevenK: If you are going to look at updating GIMP, I'd appreciate it if you consider Bug 145376 when you do so.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 145376 in gimp "[apport]  sphere.py crashed with ImportError in <module>()" [Medium,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145376
<ajmitch> ScottK: ok, done
<ScottK> ajmitch: Cool.  Thanks.
<ScottK> I see we lost the URL to that page out of /topic.
<ScottK> ajmitch: What's the URL again?
<ScottK> Sorry.
<ScottK> bddebian's gone to bed so I have to be hopeless now.
<ajmitch> django.ajmitch.net.nz/rcbugs
<TheMuso> Its on wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO
<ScottK> Thanks.
<ajmitch> initially setup just as a test, but then it stuck
<ajmitch> so I can't easily change URL now
<lifeless> lol
<ajmitch> afternoon lifeless
<RAOF> Good afternoon lifeless
<lifeless> hi guys
<ajmitch> maybe I can get something like motu.ubuntu.org.nz
* ajmitch finds the loco person
<TheMuso> heh
<ajmitch> well I see that catalyst registered ubuntu.org.nz a couple of years ago
<ajmitch> and the current loco coordinators happen to work at catalyst...
<ScottK> Anyone doinb websvn off the RC list?
<ScottK> doind/doing
<ScottK> If not, I'll get it....
<ajmitch> maybe I can convince them for server space as well
<ScottK> If a package depends on php5 | php4 do I need to merge it or can I leave it?
<ScottK> ajmitch: ^^^?
<soren> ScottK: As in what? Remove php4?
<ScottK> soren: Yes.  Do I need to remove the option to depend on php4 or can I leave it (it's a sync otherwise)?
<soren> ScottK: Just leave it.
<ScottK> OK.  THanks
<soren> :)
<TheMuso> Hey dholbach.
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> hey TheMuso
<ScottK> websvn is done.
<ScottK> Good morning dholbach
* ScottK is going to head to bed now.
<dholbach> hey ScottK
<dholbach> ScottK: good night :)
<ScottK> Hy.
<ScottK> Hey even
<ScottK> Hobbsee: If you are wanting to raise your blood pressure you might grep through LongPointyStick's logs and see what fun Kmos has been up to while you were away.
<ScottK> Good afternoon too Hobbsee.
* ScottK found out long enough ago that he can probably sleep.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: urgh.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: what's he done?
* Hobbsee notes that the sponsorship queue hasnt exploded.
<ScottK> No, the problem isn't volume this time
<ScottK> Just promising people that the final GIMP would make Gutsy and then emailing StevenK to ask him to make sure it did.
<Hobbsee> oh yay...
<ScottK> The only progress I'm noticing is the reduction in volume.  I'm still not detecting and increased (or extant) clue factor.
<dholbach> he shouldn't have promised it, but the release team should at least review the upgrade to rc3
<Hobbsee> dholbach: i'm sure we will, but him peskering about will only make it slower, not quicker
<ScottK> dholbach: Agreed, but he's raising people's expectation on stuff he's no idea about and distracting people from getting work done.
<dholbach> right
<Hobbsee> ScottK: well, then everyone will know that he's on crack.  which may not be bad.
<ScottK> Well the person in question was someone I don't recall seeing active here before.  He's not the first impression we want to make.
<dholbach> I'll talk to him
<Hobbsee> ScottK: true, but until people like dholbach and jono feel like chucking him out, rather than speaking to him and attempting to make him more clueful, we're stuck with his misinformation.
<ScottK> Right.  On my list of reasons for spending less time on Ubuntu after Gutsy releases.
<dholbach> come on now
<StevenK> I'm happy to look at rc3, I'd just prefer not to get Kmos mailing me saying "Debian already has it =)"
<dholbach> he's not wreaking havoc
<dholbach> and we had people badger us about new versions of *whatever* before
<ScottK> dholbach: I think the entire situation with him has been very poorly handled from the perspective of allowing us to get actual work done.
<dholbach> what do you think how many mails seb128 got about the newest pidgin etc?
<ScottK> dholbach: I don't mean today, I mean in general.
<StevenK> dholbach: The fact he mailed me isn't the problem - the fact that he told someone that GIMP 2.4 final would be in Gutsy is.
<dholbach> I'll talk to him
<dholbach> so you're saying is: remove him from the community, else I'll do less for Ubuntu?
<Hobbsee> dholbach: yes, but it's kmos.
<dholbach> how many people that have trouble understanding what we do will we face when MOTU gets more mainstream?
<Hobbsee> dholbach: sorry?
<StevenK> Yeah, parse error
<dholbach> I have concerns, when it comes to the point that this is 'the kmos problem'
<dholbach> all I'm saying is: this is not the last time that somebody misunderstands what we do and how we do it
<dholbach> and removing those people from the community is not what I call the standard way to deal with people
<ScottK> dholbach: I understand it very clearly which is why I despair that in a case as clear as this abusive/destructive behavior is tolerated.  It's only going to get worse.
<minghua> Isn't gimp in main?
<ScottK> Yes
<Hobbsee> minghua: oh yes.
<StevenK> dholbach: Of course. But other people tend to listen.
<ScottK> dholbach: There's a point where it's the only answer.
<dholbach> wouldn't you agree that things have changed?
<ajmitch> hey Hobbsee, dholbach
<StevenK> Or better, *actually ask questions*
<Hobbsee> my problem with this isnt the fact taht someone's misunderstood.  my problem with this is that the someone has *continually* misunderstood, and seems to be making little to no effort in actually attempting to undersatnd.
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch
<ScottK> dholbach: Only the volume.
<dholbach> I mean I'm not saying that the gimp was the right thing to do
<Hobbsee> dholbach: sure, he's changed. he's ogne from random closing of bugs, to sync floods, to removal floods, to saying things that he has no right to promise.  he keeps changing, but it doesnt seem to be an *improvement*
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: it wasn't a firm promise, just a 'yes' followed by "I'm pretty sure =)"
<ScottK> Each time we say don't do X he either does X anyway or picks Y and causes more trouble.
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: right.  i havent looked at the logs yet.
<dholbach> do you have the bug number for that?
<dholbach> I'll talk to him.
<ScottK> ajmitch: He had no way to be pretty sure.
<ScottK> dholbach: It was here on IRC.
<dholbach> oh ok
<dholbach> I'm not saying he did not cause a lot of trouble, but this gimp case is not really worth being outraged about it.
<dholbach> as I said, I'll talk to him
<ScottK> dholbach: Remember all the confusion he caused over the ddclient UVFe.  His presence just seems to make everything harder.  How much harder is a function of his activity level.
<ajmitch> I think it's more of a cumulative thing
<ScottK> ajmitch: Yes.
<StevenK> Agreed.
<ScottK> dholbach: He's way past out of 2nd chances in my book.
<StevenK> 6th, 7th ...
<dholbach> I'll talk to him and propose to him talking me through his changes before he does stuff
<ScottK> So, back to my earlier point, the fact that Ubuntu appears to be willing to tolerate an effectively inifinite (I'd imagine there is a limit, but it's undiscovered as of yet) degree of destructive behavior makes it a less fun environement for me to volunteer my time in.
<Hobbsee> dholbach: good luck.  iirc, you said that last time.
<dholbach> Hobbsee: he's been asking me much more since then
<Hobbsee> dholbach: still not enough, it seems.  but OK.
* Hobbsee wonders if dholbach has looked at the ddclient stuff yet
<dholbach> Hobbsee: I looked at it and am waiting for an update on it
<Hobbsee> dholbach: in all honesty, if it's a choice between using time to fix processes, and to help out other people, and to get more people into MOTU, with the mentoring, etc, vs going with kmos, and fixing every hairbrained thing that he does...i know which i'd pick.  But really, it's your call - because you'll be the one doing it.  And, of course, you'll be the one answering to Canonical about what's happened, and whether it was a good decision or
<Hobbsee> not.
<pwnguin> who is this kmos person?
<dholbach> right, if you don't want to deal with him because you've spent a lot of time on his mistakes already, that's perfectly ok
<Hobbsee> dholbach: so you're offering to deal with all his bugs on the sponsorship queue, and fix all the messes he does in here?
<ScottK> pwnguin: You don't want to know.
<Hobbsee> pwnguin: he's a guy who attempts to "help out" - but has a weird idea of what helping out is
<pwnguin> well, i might want to at least know how to avoid him :)
<pwnguin> heh
<pwnguin> "he helps all the time. people just misunderstand his help and end up running... or burning... or dying"
<dholbach> Hobbsee: there's nothing in the sponsoring queue of him right now
<Hobbsee> pwnguin: he's gone from random closing of bugs, to sync floods, to removal floods, to saying things that he has no right to promise.
<Hobbsee> dholbach: yes, for good reason.
<Hobbsee> dholbach: he's kept his promise to not sync-flood, at least for the moment
<dholbach> Hobbsee: but yeah, I'll ask him to work with me as a mentor
<Hobbsee> dholbach: OK.  so we'll shunt any bugs to you, presumably?
* TheMuso feels that kmos hasn't annoyed hi too much.
<TheMuso> I just deal with whatever he does as it comes.
<TheMuso> As much as he is frustratig, I don't let it annoy me.
<TheMuso> frustrating
<dholbach> Hobbsee: works for me
<TheMuso> Because if I do, then I'll get more frustrated, and then it adversly affects my work.
* dholbach hugs TheMuso
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: unfortunately, at some level, i know i'm the co-head of the sponsorship queue - so i do have to make sure that people are happy with the way it works, and fix it when it doesnt.  i cant just ignore it forever.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: and even more unfortunately, some of that involves kmos.
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: fine then, shunt some off to me as well if you want
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: great!  :)
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: I understand, and I'm sure if things from kmos get too much, I'll make suggestions where necessary, but I am doing my best to take the bad with the good.
<ajmitch> though I'd still have to pass any UVF-related ones to you
<dholbach> ok, I think we've talked about most points now - I'll catch him as soon as I can and keep you informed of how that goes
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: i'm happy to delegate them too - or at least, make sure a MOTU has gone thru and checked if the changes are sane.
<TheMuso> dholbach: I'm happy to help where I can, as I always try to give him a chance, but there are limits.
<dholbach> yes
<TheMuso> It could be that I'm not around enough to clean up after him or something. :p
* ajmitch wonders if we can try & avoid as many NEW packages as possible for hardy
<TheMuso> ajmitch: Sounds sane to me.
<ajmitch> we're going to have our hands full making sure you can upgrade from dapper or gutsy
<StevenK> That's going to make for some fun discussions in Boston
<TheMuso> Aye.
<ajmitch> bug 145467 looks interesting
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 145467 in ubuntu "compaq v3428 " [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145467
<StevenK> A what now? :-)
* RAOF wonders idly what changed his /dev/mapper symlinks so that Storage-gutsy_chroot -> Storage-gutsy_chroot . No wonder sbuild isn't working.
<StevenK> RAOF: Way cool.
<RAOF> StevenK: Totally!
<RAOF> I suspect the devmapper upgrade that just got installed.
<StevenK> That's like having /dev/sda1 -> / and then wondering why your machine panics at boot.
<ajmitch> unpossible
* StevenK is still pondering how to destroy his work machine tomorrow
<ajmitch> why would you want to?
<StevenK> Because it's my last day. :-)
<ajmitch> I see
<pwnguin> why destroy what you can subtly own?
<minghua> ajmitch: Which part is interesting?  The Chinese part? ;-)
<ajmitch> minghua: yes, I can't quite make sense of it
<minghua> ajmitch: I can.  But what should I do?  seb has said before that we should just outright close non-English bugs.
<minghua> And if we close the bug, where should we point him to?
<ajmitch> I thought there were (overworked) people who were translating some bugs
<minghua> It's a pretty poor bug report anyway...
<ajmitch> I assumed so, from the brevity of it
<ScottK> Mark it incomplete and LP will take care of it in time....
<minghua> Okay, let me phrase something.
* minghua is in a good mood today.
* StevenK updates bug 145467
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 145467 in ubuntu "compaq v3428 " [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145467
<ajmitch> thanks :)
<pwnguin> you gonna play translator the whole time?
<StevenK> Actually, a workmate just threw the text into Google, and it dealt.
<pwnguin> heh
<StevenK> He's about to paste it into the bug.
<minghua> Hmm.
<minghua> Does people really want to deal with that bug?  I can translate the report - but I honestly don't think it's worth the effort.
<ajmitch> not enough info to be very useful there
<minghua> I just put some words there to ask him not to submit bug reports in Chinese.
<pwnguin> do the locos have answers queues?
<StevenK> I saw that. I'm amused by the fact that I've managed to get 2 other people in the office looking at this bug.
<TheMuso> heh
<pwnguin> why?
<pwnguin> its no more unique than the random spanish language bugs
<minghua> IMHO Spanish speaking bug triagers should do the same thing to those bugs.
<pwnguin> i'd be comfortable with an answers queue for other langages
<minghua> (and then, if the bug is clear, maybe do a translation for the developers to look at)
<pwnguin> yes
* minghua would volunteer to monitor and deal with Chinese answers queue, too.  But we probably don't have that, do we?
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> oops
<pwnguin> ive got your password now!
<TheMuso> :)
<TheMuso> I'm not that careless
* TheMuso shakes his head at one of Debian's weird odoties, not moving a package into testing, just because it doesn't build on two obscure arches, that nobody is likely to use the package on anyway. :)
<TheMuso> Try running ardour on mips or mipsel.
<pwnguin> i thought they decided to move mips to a lesser priority
<pwnguin> what runs mips anymore?
<pwnguin> mipstations?
<TheMuso> pwnguin: I don't know. I'm just ona debian list where a question was raised about a package not being in testing, and an answer was given, with the mips/mipsel FTBFS as the reason.
<minghua> TheMuso: It's not oddity.  An arch is either supported or unsupported.  And if it is, a package can't entering testing if it's not up-to-date on that arch.
<ScottK> Any other way would lead to insanity.
<TheMuso> minghua: I know its not an oddity, but it seems odd for the package in question.
<minghua> TheMuso: Why?  If it's blocked from going into testing, it must have been built on mips/mipsel before.
<TheMuso> minghua: Yeah, I know.
<minghua> TheMuso: So it's a good argument that the FTBFS should be properly dealt with.
<TheMuso> minghua: Well from the message, it seems that ardour's deps need to be fixed, before ardour itself can be built.
<minghua> Then ardour is just a victim.  But such things happen all the time.
<pwnguin> still, im surprised mips is supported
<minghua> Sometime you don't even need the new features in the libraries you depend on, but since the shlibs version is bumped, you have to stay in unstable with the library and can't enter testing.
<pwnguin> ugg
<pwnguin> i really should have started my ppa with fiesty and then uploaded to gutsy
<pwnguin> instead of trying to backport stuff
<RAOF> Why must xgl crashes invariably fail to retrace?
<pwnguin> threading?
<RAOF> Maybe?  I'm not actually sure what can cause a retrace to fail, actually.
<pwnguin> im not sure what a retrace is
<pwnguin> sounds like a debugging stack thing
<RAOF> Yeah, apport automatically (tries) to re-backtrace the crash with debugging symbols installed, if I understand it right.
<pwnguin> all you'd have to do is mess with the stack
<pwnguin> user space threading libraries do that
<pwnguin> as do those super efficient nerds
<RAOF> Stupid darn Xgl.  It also lies about accepting the +xinerama option.
<pwnguin> the fun part is when people ask to attach an strace to authentication failures
<dholbach> we should go through another round of unmetdeps bugs - only ScottK suggested that we might be better off without bug lists, as people tend to block each other out by assigning bugs to themselves - hrm
<dholbach> I feel we should better try to block as minimally as possible
<TheMuso> dholbach: How else do we do it if not bugs?
<Hobbsee> dholbach: dont we usually do that with a bugflood, then just tag?
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: generate our lists ourselves, and keep uploading them
<dholbach> TheMuso: yeah
<Hobbsee> dholbach: if we do it via apt-cache unmet -i, then a) we may be doing stuff that others have found break, and b) it's dependant on our mirror
<TheMuso> Yeah that is an option.
<dholbach> Hobbsee: I could modify the old 'massfile' script to use py-lpbugs, check if the bug is already filed (?field.tag=unmetdeps) then file it
<Hobbsee> so i suspect bugs may still be the way to go there.
<Hobbsee> dholbach: that would be useful
<Hobbsee> dholbach: link in the topic, etc.
<dholbach> I'm writing a blog post, when I just had this idea
<Hobbsee> dholbach: the other thing is then - to make sure that people are sponsoring from non-MOTU's.
<Hobbsee> we had a few cases of MOTU's doing the work without checking for bugs, where the hopeful had already done it too
<dholbach> ah ok yeah
<dholbach> but that's a more general process thing
<dholbach> if we can codify that somewhere, we should do it
<dholbach> GOD, we need a merged wiki :-)
<Hobbsee> a merged wiki?
<dholbach> yeah, not a mess of 13967146 motu wiki pages that are in random places
<Hobbsee> ah
<dholbach> you'd end up adding a "please, when you're dealing with bugs, do 1), then 2) then 3)" to at least five pages
<StevenK> dholbach: I'll remove all of them leaving /MOTU, would that do? :-P
<Hobbsee> haha
<dholbach> StevenK: haha... welll - that's not what I proposed in the wiki clean up spec ;-)
<\sh> oh unmet deps..now where even the suggests and recommends are checked
<dholbach> I'll modify massfile to use pylpbugs instead of mailing, make it operate on a 'config file' that has a lookup-bug-url (?field.tag=unmetdeps in our case) and a standard text for description and title of the bug (also you need to give it a list of source packages)
<dholbach> does that make sense?
* dholbach should take the dog for a walk before that
<StevenK> dholbach: Does to me.
<StevenK> I've been looking for unmetdeps work to do.
<dholbach> rock and roll
<Hobbsee> \sh: not if you use -i
<dholbach> I'll get working on that script later
* TheMuso keeps on going through general universe bugs.
<\sh> Hobbsee, yeah, but we should fix the suggests etc. as well...it's bad when someone tries to install some suggests and it's not in the archives anymore or with another name
<dholbach> when you're all triaging universe bugs, please tag as 'bitesize', 'packaging' and so on :)
<Hobbsee> \sh: true
* Hobbsee tags all the bugs as bitesize.
<dholbach> super
<Hobbsee> the unmet deps should tend to be bitesize
* dholbach hugs Hobbsee and TheMuso
<dholbach> we have 'unmetdeps' too
* TheMuso just tends to fix them.
<\sh> well, in the upcoming months until end of december I think I have to have other responsibilites...searching new jobs ;)
<Hobbsee> yes, and they should be easy to fix
<Hobbsee> by the time we find the solution - as to whether it's easy or nto, i find it's easier to upload it
* dholbach -> dogwalk
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: I'm kinda the same.
<TheMuso> BTW, do we have good documentation to explain to hopefuls about bashisms?
<Hobbsee> ask persia.  he read the entire wiki.
<TheMuso> heh
<\sh> TheMuso: any idea how to fix them really...I mean setting /bin/bash is not a real solution ;)
<TheMuso> \sh: Depends on what the bashism is.
<TheMuso> THe most common one is using {} and putting comma separated strings between them.
<TheMuso> Well from what I've seen anyway.
<\sh> TheMuso, yepp...
<TheMuso> I can't think of any others atm.
<StevenK> Some of the unmetdeps I've seen are not bitesize
<\sh> and using == for "is equal" checks
<\sh> we need to fix tomcat5.5 btw
<\sh> it's old...
<\sh> but tomcat5.5 5.0.35 FTBFS because of a different eclipse version
<Hobbsee> StevenK: true that.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Agreed. Take sear for example.
<TheMuso> I was looking at that the other day. Fixing the deps is the easy part, but it also needs some c++ hacking love to get it to build.
<TheMuso> Yet to get it work with the deps in ubuntu, you need to edit configure.ac, and run autoreconf
<TheMuso> That certainly isn't bytesize.
<pwnguin> i love source code written in english by guys who cant bother to translate their website
<minghua> Maybe it's just English-speaking programmers and non-English-speaking web designers. :-P
<pwnguin> its clearly a one guy affair
<\sh> Hobbsee, do you have a linkedin account or something like that
<Hobbsee>  \sh i dont, no.
<Hobbsee> \sh: should i?  :)
<\sh> Hobbsee, good for job hunters to find you ;)
<SWAT> and spammers...
<Hobbsee> \sh: good point.
<Hobbsee> SWAT: my email is very public - it wouldnt matter, i dont think
<Hobbsee> \sh: i havent previously, with the whole point about using an alias, etc.
<Hobbsee> but i should perhaps rethink that
<pwnguin> i donno about linked in
<pwnguin> it sounds about as great as facebook
<pwnguin> or dice
<TheMuso> There is also OpenSkills.
<SWAT> social networking 'can' be addictive and 'can' be useful. Unfortunately most people just go bonkers over it
<\sh> SWAT, I don't get spam on linkedin or xing
<\sh> pwnguin, facebook is childrens stuff...linkedin or xing is business
<Hobbsee> SWAT: my myspace page finally got deleted.  that's the only social networking i was doing.
<StevenK> Hurray! Now my eyes won't bleed any more!
<Hobbsee> StevenK: i can recreate it.
<Hobbsee> and it was a *lovely* background!
<TheMuso> Oh sure it was.
<StevenK> Twitch.
<SWAT> Hobbsee, you said a bad word (myspace)
<pwnguin> speaking of lovely colors
<Hobbsee> SWAT: yeah, but you never saw it.
* StevenK is going anywhere near myspace
<Hobbsee> SWAT: i had a page pretty much saying how myspace is evil.  it was the only reasonable page on the entire myspace
<pwnguin> you know what would be neat? a set of filters to the color filter to SIMULATE being colorblind
<Hobbsee> SWAT: to give you an idea of what it looked like, it looked something like this...
<Hobbsee> with a fridge on it
<pwnguin> it's one thing to use color filter to make things potentially better for the colorblind
<Hobbsee> SWAT: http://www.klickibunti.org/buntibunti.php
<Hobbsee> pwnguin: i think there is, iirc.
<pwnguin> Hobbsee: not that ive seen
<pwnguin> just grayscale
<Hobbsee> ah
<\sh> I'm blind now
<Hobbsee> it bothers you less the longer you look at it.
<tonyyarusso> It's Hobbsee's MySpace reincarnated!
<Hobbsee> tonyyarusso: that was the original
<tonyyarusso> ah
<SWAT> Hobbsee, no brains no headache :)
* TheMuso ponders responding to the fsck thread on -discuss.
<Hobbsee> SWAT: :)
<pwnguin> is -discuss worth subscribing to?
<TheMuso> pwnguin: Theres not a lot of traffic if thats what you're worried about.
<pwnguin> well lets call it noise:signal
<Hobbsee> there's very occasionally useful stuff on -discuss
<TheMuso> There are some interesting threads on there, not stuff I always find interesting, but yeah the vast majority of what I've seen has been intelligent.
<Hobbsee> but it's usually on -devel too
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Not very useful, I agree, but certainly not crap
<Hobbsee> SWAT: i suspect someone reported it.  eventually.  i dont think it would have been good for epileptics
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Although seeing one of the latest posts to the list, it seems that people think tha developers will listen to their requests on that list.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: probably forums users.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: who are learning that the developers are not on the forums.
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Oh right, the forums.
<RAOF> Hobbsee: And thank the lord for that.
* TheMuso used to love forums, but now stays away whereever possible, as they are terribly inifficient.
<Hobbsee> RAOF: indeed.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: yes, them
<TheMuso> The only forum I don't mind visiting is whirlpool.net.au
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: still, the users believe that we're having trouble finding ideas, and so want all of theirs.
<RAOF> Hobbsee: Yes, the "idea pool" forum isn't really functioning usefully.
<Hobbsee> RAOF: it's only ever a place to shove all the requests
<TheMuso> I'm sure there are many users that say "I shouldn't have to file a bug"
<Hobbsee> RAOF: a black hole would be more effective, though.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: oh, indeed.
<RAOF> Hobbsee: Even better would be to try and use it to synthesise open source hackers from forum-goers, but that's a low-yield reaction.
<TheMuso> heh
<Hobbsee> RAOF: they're trying.
<RAOF> Maybe if we accelerated them to .99c, and collided them we could collect useful fragments :)
<pwnguin> when i was a novice
<pwnguin> one thing i liked about gentoo over debian was the forums
<RAOF> Hobbsee: Yeah, there actually seems to be some good stuff in there, along with the n+1 "please break everything by dropping the FHS" threads.
<pwnguin> irc was quite mean and difficult to pace with
<Hobbsee> RAOF: fhs?
<RAOF> filesystem-hierachy-standard?
<RAOF> "Let's put all application files in /Applications"!!!!!111111
<pwnguin> which works, if you have NeXT style fat binaries
<RAOF> pwnguin: AKA static linking?
<pwnguin> and brutal requirements on linking
<pwnguin> RAOF: im not sure. i hear next uses fat binaries, but then theres these frameworks
<pwnguin> and a heard a developer say on a podcast that apple would require you to not ship different framework versions
<TheMuso> SO much stuff on OS X is statically linked, its crazy.
<RAOF> TheMuso: Because they don't have a package manager.
<TheMuso> RAOF: Yeah, but believe it or not, there are dynamic libs on the system, known as .dylib files.
<RAOF> Dynamic linking *requires* a package manager to be remotely useful.
<TheMuso> Yeah.
<RAOF> TheMuso: Oh, I know.  It's just that each application will ship its own .dylibs, right?
<TheMuso> RAOF: Either that, or its statically linked. I think.
<TheMuso> Its a wonder that windows manages, as there is dynamic linking for that.
<RAOF> And shipping it's own libraries is static linking in all but name.
<RAOF> TheMuso: Windows apps by and large do the same.
<TheMuso> RAOF: Yeah, but they throw them in windows/system32
<RAOF> Not all the time.  Also, "dll hell" :)
<TheMuso> yep
<RAOF> TheMuso: Most games, for example, will ship any dlls they rely on in $bin_dir
<TheMuso> RAOF: I'm guessing thats usually "program files/programname"?
<RAOF> Yeah.  Which is why you end up with 50,000 copies of msvcrt_7.foo.bar lying around.
<TheMuso> Lovely.
<pwnguin> thats not so bad
<pwnguin> its like 12K
<RAOF> Basically, thank Debian for the ability to not suck at dynamic linkin.
<pwnguin> its the 50 copies IN MEMORY that kill
<TheMuso> Linux does rock in that regard.
<TheMuso> And the funny thing is, other OSs could do it to, given a bit of thought.
<pwnguin> not really
<TheMuso> s/to/too/
<pwnguin> "you cant ship a new version of that, it'd break our app!"
<TheMuso> pwnguin: If it was done right from the first go, and was given thought, it wouldn.
<pwnguin> MS bends over backwards to make sure ancient crap runs i hear
<RAOF> They could, if you trusted people not to break ABI.  Which you can't, basically.
<TheMuso> I know it wouldn't work now.
<TheMuso> pwnguin: Which IMO is the biggest problem with Windows.
<TheMuso> And a big security risk.
<RAOF> TheMuso: If it was done right & was given thought, they'd end up with something very similar to APT, I think :)
<TheMuso> RAOF: Agreed.
<pwnguin> vista has something like a software marketplace
<TheMuso> But that will never happen now.
<pwnguin> but dpkg and debian-policy is what counts, not apt
<RAOF> pwnguin: True.
<TheMuso> Yep.
<pwnguin> speaking of tight integration
<pwnguin> debian refused a patch i reported
<RAOF> I'm not sure how much the CLI helps, but that at least allows multiple libraries to be sanely installed.
<pwnguin> on the grounds that its not a bug in upstream and they refuse to accept workarounds
* TheMuso has found two packages that have a file conflict with bash-doc.
<pwnguin> gksudo makes some assumptions about the prompt it seems
<pwnguin> and pam modules do not
<RAOF> Right.  So, there's a gksudo bug lying around in there?  Possibly wishlist?
<pwnguin> libpam_thinkfinger prompts you at console to scan a finger
<pwnguin> gksudo wraps sudo
<pwnguin> and displays a popup when you get the Password: prompt im told
<RAOF> Urgh, really?
<pwnguin> its been confirmed by upstream
<pwnguin> in another bug, mvo tried pushing a bit on sudo itself
<pwnguin> im not sure why
<pwnguin> but basically, gdm, gnome-screensaver and gksudo all work differently
<pwnguin> gdm happens to work fine
<pwnguin> as far as i know
<RAOF> Ah, so it's kindof a meta-bug?
<pwnguin> basically, pam, sudo, and gksudo need to sit down and figure this out
<TheMuso> Using a fingerprint reader would be really really handy for lots of sudo work. :)
<pwnguin> yes and no
<pwnguin> sudo already has a timeout
<pwnguin> but if its not at the keyboard, its almost faster to just type the password
* RAOF sighs at -devel-discuss.  Can we please not have any option to turn compiz on or off as a part of install?
<TheMuso> RAOF: Hense my point earlier re users thinking they can make requests via discuss to developers.
* lifeless is glad not to be on devel-discuss
<RAOF> TheMuso: Ah, I mised the context.
<pwnguin> sounds like no, im not missing much on -discuss
* TheMuso wonders why he decided to subscribe.
<RAOF> Because discussion is fun.
<TheMuso> Probably because I was missing interesting discussions relating to posts to -devel as well as to -devel-discuss from core devs.
* TheMuso decides to respond to the fsck thread.
<RAOF> Aaah, a Gnome user has responded to the compiz thread.
* ajmitch returns
<TheMuso> Evening ajmitch.
<ajmitch> hi TheMuso
* ajmitch isn't exactly understanding what that mail about 'predict' is about
<TheMuso> You and me both.
<ajmitch> I'm glad
<RAOF> I *think* he's complaining that the version number of the package doesn't correspond to the version of his binary.  Why he cares is still a mystery.
* ajmitch shrugs
<RAOF> We should probably bump the version to 3.2.23, just to mess with him.
* ajmitch needs to find something to work on
<dholbach> StevenK: massfile committed to ubuntu-dev-tools - wanna try and file a few unmetdeps bugs? :)
* RAOF contributes something hopefully useful to -devel-discus
<ajmitch> if only I had something useful to contribute :)
<dholbach> try the massfile script
<dholbach> this time it shouldn't even file duplicates
* ajmitch will need to find out what is uninstallable
<dholbach> if you run massfile, it will give you a sample instructions file into cwd
<dholbach> that has the unmetdeps instructions :)
<ajmitch> yes, I may need to change sources.list
<dholbach> oh, you're still on feisty?
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> but I have my local debmirror stuff in there\
<dholbach> ah right
<dholbach> maybe somebody else should try to use it then; it worked OK for me
<ajmitch> I should just do it in a chroot again, worked for me in feisty
* ajmitch hunts for ubuntu-dev-tools
<dholbach> I uploaded it but it hangs in beta freeze
<dholbach> it should be in bzr though
<ajmitch> just getting the bzr branch
<ajmitch> before my hands freeze up completely
<dholbach> is it that cold?
<ajmitch> I have no heater in here
* ajmitch is making many typos :)
<dholbach> ugh :-/
<ajmitch> hm, I already had  http://daniel.holba.ch/bzr/massfile/
<dholbach> yeah, but this does not use email any more
<dholbach> and it's cleverer not to file dups
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> py-lp-bugs?
<dholbach> yep
<ajmitch> I'll need the latest package of that?
<ajmitch> python-launchpad-bugs is already the newest version.
<ajmitch> yay
<dholbach> rock and roll
* ajmitch wonders how much hate mail he'll get for massfiling
<ajmitch> bzr+ssh is so much faster...
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> :0:> ./massfile
<ajmitch> cp: cannot stat `/usr/share/doc/ubuntu-dev-tools/examples/massfile.instructions': No such file or directory
<dholbach> urg
<ajmitch> it really expects to be installed, doesn't it?
<dholbach> lalalala
* ajmitch builds
* dholbach adds to todo list
* ajmitch is going to try & see if he can move the rc bugs page off his hoome box
<ajmitch> or at least onto a more memorable url :)
<ajmitch> having a full mirror of main makes making a chroot so much faster as well
<ajmitch> dholbach: do we need to subscribe motu?
<dholbach> ajmitch: I talked to a mailman person to help us fix the universe-bugs thing, it's still on his todo list :-/
<dholbach> so for now, I guess we should do it
* ajmitch whistles
<ajmitch> need deb-src lines in chroot :)
<ajmitch> how does it file bugs?
<dholbach> using pylpbugs
<ajmitch> yeah, but how does that work? https login?
<dholbach> ah, it uses your lpcookie in ~/.lpcookie :)
<ajmitch> which I don't have
<dholbach> man ppaput      tells you where to find it
<ajmitch> all these new things :)
<dholbach> excusez-moi :)
<ajmitch> hah, no man in chroot :)
<dholbach> ah ok, sorry :)
<dholbach> I can paste it to you, han ong
<ajmitch> dpkg: considering removing devscripts in favour of ubuntu-dev-tools ...
<ajmitch> eek
<ajmitch> I need newer devscripts, obviously
<dholbach> ah ok, that was because requestsync moved from one to the other
<dholbach> ajmitch: example files bug fixed
<dholbach> pushed
<ajmitch> :0:> wc -l list
<ajmitch> 84 list
<ajmitch> not too many
<dholbach> nice
<dholbach> and some are already filed, I guess
<dholbach> which $arch are you on?
<ajmitch> amd64
<dholbach> great :)
<ajmitch> so I won't change the instructions file
<dholbach> so you can leave it as that :)
<dholbach> neat-o
<ajmitch> yay, fail
<ajmitch>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/launchpadbugs/html_buglist.py", line 146, in __init__
<ajmitch>     assert self.baseurl, "Invalid launchpad url %s" %baseurl
<ajmitch> AssertionError: Invalid launchpad url None
<dholbach> ugh
<ajmitch> will it matter that I'm in the beta-testers team?
<dholbach> no, it shouldn't
<dholbach> which URL do you have in the instructions file?
<ajmitch> then there's other breakage
<ajmitch> url? :)
* dholbach makes that a bit safer
* ajmitch sees no usage of an URL in there
<dholbach> hang on
<ajmitch> ok, just saw the code for it
<dholbach> fixing
<ajmitch> so I need buglist-url
<dholbach> fixed
<ajmitch> thanks
<ajmitch> <3 bzr
<dholbach> "ajmitch is now part of the dholbach-beta-testers team."
<ajmitch> hehe
<dholbach> :-)
<dholbach> hopefully I'll stop embarassing myself soon :)
<ajmitch> all software has bugs, including those to deal with bugs ;)
<dholbach> yeah, I think thekorn knows what you mean :)
<ajmitch> ok, running now
<dholbach> yeeehaaaaw
<ajmitch> and it hates my cookie file, I'll just copy it
* ajmitch retries
* dholbach hugs super-ajmitch
<ajmitch> I'm just running scripts, you did all the hard work
<ajmitch> 1 down...
<dholbach> nah, I just copied bits and pieces from scripts I had written before :)
<dholbach> and used thekorn's good work
<dholbach> which bug number is it?
<ajmitch> bug 145519
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 145519 in libapache-filter-perl "[UNMETDEPS]  libapache-filter-perl has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145519
* TheMuso should see if there are any ppc specific unmet deps, but doubts it.
<dholbach> TheMuso: that's going to be easy once ajmitch has filed those bugs
<ajmitch> bug 145520
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 145520 in khalkhi "[UNMETDEPS]  libapache-filter-perl has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145520
<ajmitch> uh oh
<dholbach> TheMuso: you'll just have to re-generate the 'list' file with packages, then re-run the script on ppc
<ajmitch> dholbach: your old bug is back!
<dholbach> interesting :)
* ajmitch ctrl-c
<dholbach> can you stop the script?
<dholbach> gracias
<TheMuso> dholbach: Right.
* ajmitch doesn't see anything obviously wrong in the massfile script
<ajmitch> except that config isn't reset to the starting value each time
<ajmitch> so $pack is no longer there
<ajmitch> you could have     config = read_config()
<ajmitch> in the loop each time, which is ugly
<ajmitch> or just work on a copy of config each time
<dholbach> ajmitch: hum - the file should not change
<dholbach> ah ARG
<dholbach> yeah, I know
<ajmitch> no, the file won't change, but the object will :)
<dholbach> ah, I know how to do it
<dholbach> I'll compose the strings in file_bug()
<ajmitch> for pack in pack_list: # refresh the subject & mailtext read_config() # generate bug report
<ajmitch> ok, that didn't paste well, but you used to read_config() for every bug
<ajmitch> yeah, doing it in file_bug will work, it should operate on a copy of config
<ajmitch> if it doesn't, pass in config[:] 
* StevenK appears
<ajmitch> hello StevenK
* StevenK waves
<dholbach> ajmitch: pushed - let me know if it makes sense now ;-)
* dholbach is away for a sec
<StevenK> config is a array, I'm guessing, why would you need to pass in config[:] ?
* StevenK sighs.
<StevenK> Let me log on, WoW!
<ajmitch> pass by ref?
<ajmitch> if file_bug is mangling config on every bug and replacing the text that I want to use, it makes it a lot harder to replace next time round
<dholbach> ajmitch: um... string.replace should replace a copy, no?
<dholbach> ajmitch: is it still wrong?
<ajmitch> trying to get it to file any bugs now
<dholbach> it doesn't any more?
<ajmitch> if it is, it's doing it rather faster than expected
<dholbach> hrm
<ajmitch> & never printing out "Successfully filed" nor "Bug for '%s' was not filed"
<dholbach> sorry
<dholbach> found the bug
<ajmitch> what is it?
<dholbach> pack -> config["sourcepackage"] 
<dholbach> lalala
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> yes, I see it now :)
<dholbach> pushed
* StevenK sighs.
<StevenK> Why WoW 2.2.0 seems to only give me 2 fps.... :-/
<ajmitch> works for me
<StevenK> Yes, but that doesn't help me. :-)
<ajmitch> bug 145528
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 145528 in libapache-mod-layout "[UNMETDEPS]  libapache-mod-layout has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145528
<ajmitch> yay, seems to have the right name & all
<dholbach> ajmitch: THANKS so much
<TheMuso> StevenK: I think ajmitch is talking about something else.
<ajmitch> np
<ajmitch> TheMuso: no, I was talking about WoW :)
<ajmitch> it's still quite playable for me, even on my cheap hardware
<TheMuso> StevenK: I know that, and I think ajmitch is talking about the bug stuff he's doing with dholbach.
* ajmitch is talking about both
<TheMuso> ajmitch: Ok, you are talking about the same thing. :)
<TheMuso> lol
<ajmitch> dholbach: it's about the only thing I can do right now
* dholbach hugs ajmitch
* ajmitch waits patiently & fades away
* proppy hugs dholbach
<proppy> soren: hi
* dholbach hugs proppy
<TheMuso> Has anybody thought of working out if packages have file conflicts with each other, other than packages that actually do conflict?
<ajmitch> TheMuso: yes, lifeless has
<TheMuso> I wouldn't be surprised if there are a few.
<TheMuso> ajmitch: Ah thats what conflict resolution or whatever its called is for.
<ajmitch> http://people.ubuntu.com/~robertc/possible-conflicts/gutsy/
<ajmitch> last update seems to be in june
<TheMuso> hmmm ok.
<ajmitch> I was going to try & process it into something readable, maybe I could do it this weekend
<ajmitch> bug #145527
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 145527 in hello "[UNMETDEPS]  hello has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145527
* ajmitch chuckles
<TheMuso> ROFL
<dholbach> testbug ;)
<StevenK> % uptime
<StevenK>  20:35:31 up 40 days,  4:08,  6 users,  load average: 5.69, 4.55, 3.01
<StevenK> Hrm.
<StevenK> Maybe I get my load average down, WoW would actually perform
<ajmitch> reboot time?
* ajmitch should reboot soon
<StevenK> Yeah, but that seems like a Windows solution. :-)
<ajmitch> it seems like a good idea when there's a security issue on amd64 :)
<StevenK> Meh, I have a firewall. :-)
* ajmitch will get around to rebooting sooner or later
<ajmitch> so inconvenient though
<ajmitch> ok, massfile finished
<dholbach> ajmitch: blogged about our TODO list :)
<ajmitch> ?
* ajmitch looks
<ajmitch> ok, rc bugs list not up there
<ajmitch> probably a good thing if I want to change url :)
<dholbach> you could file them into LP too, we'd just need to modify massfile to read from a csv file
<ajmitch> problem si the number of false positives there
<dholbach> hm
<ajmitch> & it's not a csv file, really :)
<dholbach> yeah, we'd need to change other bits too :)
<ajmitch> http://ajmitch.net.nz/~ajmitch/missing-fixes-rc.txt
<ajmitch> python file generates a txt file to be processed
<dholbach> don't you think we could try it and try to optimise the process from there? :-)))
<dholbach> that way it'd be off your page :)
<ajmitch> suggestions...
<dholbach> hm?
<ajmitch> considering that I have to update it nightly
<ajmitch> based on the latest bug data from debian
<dholbach> right
<dholbach> but at least the webpage thing would be off your site
<ajmitch> right, though the webpage isn't terribly large
<ajmitch> I'd have to get the whole list, file bugs if they weren't already filed, and attach a debian bug task
<dholbach> ajmitch: in an optimal world, yes :)
<ajmitch> in a non-optimal world, we get shot down before that happens
<dholbach> we could check if a bug is already open, then add a new comment
<StevenK> Gah. Still slow, after reboot.
<StevenK> And WoW *really really* doesn't like being strace'd
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> I know that they changed the sound code
<ajmitch> and many people are complaining that it royally sucks
<ajmitch> but I still get a reasonable framerate
<StevenK> Are you using ALSA or OSS?
<ajmitch> probably OSS
<ajmitch> yep, OSS, I'd had a number of problems with alsa
<StevenK> How do I switch to OSS?
<StevenK> (Or check?)
<ajmitch> winecfg
<StevenK> Duh, of course
<StevenK> Right, switched to OSS
<TheMuso> Ok, seems that there are some unmet deps bugs that are only on amd64, like dasher.
<ajmitch> that's usual
<ajmitch> arch:all vs arch:any
<ajmitch> amd64 is always treated 2nd best :)
<StevenK> Hah!
<StevenK> 42 fps
<ajmitch> much better
<TheMuso> ajmitch: Yeah I know, it just means that only people with amd64 can actually resolve those bugs.
<StevenK> ajmitch: $beers_owed++; Thanks
<ajmitch> StevenK: meh, I doubt I'll see you around to collect them anytime soon :)
<ajmitch> I don't know if I'll get time away for LCA
<StevenK> Yeah, I'm not sure either
<ajmitch> it'd be worth it
<ajmitch> night
<fernando> moin all
<proppy> hi
<norsetto> hiyall
<Hobbsee> norsetto!
<norsetto> hobbsee!!
<norsetto> Silly question of the day: anyone can tell me how to set your @ubuntu.com address?
<Hobbsee> norsetto: it's to the LP primary address
<norsetto> Hobbsee: ok, so there is no need to do anything?
<Hobbsee> norsetto: email <lpid>@ubuntu.com and see if it works yet.
<norsetto> Hobbsee: not even changing your gpg keys, etc.?
<Hobbsee> norsetto: nope
<Hobbsee> norsetto: although you can add that to your current gpg key if you wish
<norsetto> Hobbsee: ok, good to know :-)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<fernando> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Hello fernando
<Kopfgeldjaeger> hi
<norsetto> Hobbsee: my kitten thanks you VERY MUCH
<Hobbsee> norsetto: :D
<Kopfgeldjaeger> could a revu reviewer have a little look at my avidemux package? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=303
<white> anyone familiar with qt by any chance and knows, how I could easily iterate over a QButtonGroup and check the state of each QCheckBox?
<Hobbsee> white: try #kde-devel?
<Hobbsee> Kopfgeldjaeger: you know that we're in upstream version freeze?
<Kopfgeldjaeger> Hobbsee: i do
<norsetto> Kopfgeldjaeger: I can give you some comments but, as Hobbsee said, this will be for hardy
<Kopfgeldjaeger> i know that universe is frozen ;) and stated that 2 times before *g
<Hobbsee> Kopfgeldjaeger: oh cool, right :)
<norsetto> Kopfgeldjaeger: then why you have feisty in your changelog .....
<Kopfgeldjaeger> norsetto: because im running feisty at the moment :-) i do not think that dependencies cant be resolved in gutsy/hardy anymore, but i will check
<norsetto> Kopfgeldjaeger: you have to change that, and for the time being just make sure that your dependancies are in-line with gutsy and that it builds in a gutsy chroot
<Kopfgeldjaeger> i now some things are not absolutely correct to upload it (e.g., I am the maintainer, not ubuntu)
<Kopfgeldjaeger> ok, i will
<norsetto> Kopfgeldjaeger: which, for the time being, it doesn't :-(
<Kopfgeldjaeger> damn. what does fail?
<norsetto> Kopfgeldjaeger: E: Couldn't find package libsmjs-dev
<Kopfgeldjaeger> hmm. i will (try to) resolve that
<norsetto> Kopfgeldjaeger: also, you may look into using libsdl1.2-dev now
<Kopfgeldjaeger> then
<Kopfgeldjaeger> the old avidemux version cannot be built for gutsy. it also has libsmjd-dev as dependency
<Kopfgeldjaeger> but
<Kopfgeldjaeger> i think that this is not needed anymore (because the source for this is in avidemux)
<norsetto> Kopfgeldjaeger: btw, since there is already an avidemux, this is not a new package, but an update
<Kopfgeldjaeger> im currently pbuilding it with feisty while reading how to create multiple pbuilders
<Kopfgeldjaeger> norsetto: its not based on the old package, and there are some things that are not so good in the ATM-package
<norsetto> Kopfgeldjaeger: I don't think that matters much for the archivers
<Kopfgeldjaeger> ok. did i something wrong with uploading it to revu? i also firstly thought revu's only for new packages, but $(name here in 2 minutes) told me its not
<norsetto> Kopfgeldjaeger: the old one is in multiverse, btw, and you have a GPL in copyright. Was there such a change?
<norsetto> Kopfgeldjaeger: no, you did well, but in principle, since there is a package already, you should base your work on that package (with the new tarball of course)
<Kopfgeldjaeger> it is GPL! and there are gpl v2 statements in the c/c++ files (but not in the header files)
<Kopfgeldjaeger> i will check if maybe something is not gpl (codec for example)
<Kopfgeldjaeger> libmjpegtools-dev is in multiverse
<norsetto> Kopfgeldjaeger: ok, and that is a depend of avidemux? I can see that most sources are GPL. Two scripts are LGPL .....
<Kopfgeldjaeger> as liblame-dev is
<Kopfgeldjaeger> at least it gives avidemux more features (mp3 in case of lame)
<norsetto> Kopfgeldjaeger: no, they are not Lesser GPL, but Library GPL :/
<norsetto> Kopfgeldjaeger: I think you have a hell of work to do as well to collect all copyrigthers
<Kopfgeldjaeger> doesnt sound good :/ i wanted to fill bug reports yesterday (because of missing gpl statements in header files), but the bug tracker crashes when trying to register
<norsetto> Kopfgeldjaeger: take it easy, we have quite some months ahead of us :-)
<Kopfgeldjaeger> yeah :D
<Kopfgeldjaeger> does build without libsmjs-dev and with libsdl1.2-dev instead of just libsdl-dev (on feisty)
<norsetto> Kopfgeldjaeger: I must admit I don't understand this link business with avidemux2_gtk and avidemux.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> norsetto: avidemux does only create the avidemux2_gtk file, and my first try would be just "avidemux"... shall i change it (well, ill just remove the (pre|post)install scripts and change avidemux.desktop
<norsetto> Kopfgeldjaeger: if the ELF is avidemux2_gtk, why changing it....
<Kopfgeldjaeger> ok
<norsetto> Kopfgeldjaeger: just make sure the man page list the right ELF and the .desktop has it
<Kopfgeldjaeger> i did not write a man page yet
<Kopfgeldjaeger> and upstream avidemux does not have one
<norsetto> Kopfgeldjaeger: np, we have enough time to make one
<Kopfgeldjaeger> yes, thats rhight
<norsetto> Kopfgeldjaeger: do you install something in /usr/sbin?
<Kopfgeldjaeger> norsetto: i know
<Kopfgeldjaeger> norsetto: i changed that yesterday in my local environment, but didnt upload it yet (wanted some more changes, to keep the history a bit concise)
<Kopfgeldjaeger> i think dh_make added this itself. and i changed the "mkdir -p"  thing in debian/rules, too
<norsetto> Kopfgeldjaeger: sure, also, since you are using the dirs file, you should use that for /usr/share/applications and /usr/share/pixmaps and remove the mkdir from rules
<Kopfgeldjaeger> :-)
<norsetto> Kopfgeldjaeger: dh_make is evil ....
<norsetto> Kopfgeldjaeger: while you are at it you can also remove the cp from rules and use an install file
<norsetto> Kopfgeldjaeger: but if you change the name of the icon I don't think you can
<Kopfgeldjaeger> norsetto: in the manpage of dh_install its not described how to copy extra files into the package. do you have a word to search for? or just an example :)
<Kopfgeldjaeger> @icon: this was also my argument against *.install yesterday
<norsetto> Kopfgeldjaeger: yes, I don't think you can do that with an install file
<norsetto> Kopfgeldjaeger: do you have examples? Because you are using dh_installexamples
<Kopfgeldjaeger> nope, will remove that. and comment out dh_installdocs for now
<norsetto> Kopfgeldjaeger: you define CFLAGS but I don't think you are using it
<Kopfgeldjaeger> you mean line 17 to 21?
<norsetto> Kopfgeldjaeger: I'm looking at the diff; usually you pass them to configure with CFLAGS="$(CFLAGS)"
<Kopfgeldjaeger> i will replace it with that
<norsetto> Kopfgeldjaeger: a couple of easy ones as I have to go (wife is back)
<norsetto> Kopfgeldjaeger: Encoding=UTF-8 is deprecated
<Kopfgeldjaeger> removed.
<norsetto> Kopfgeldjaeger: Icon=avidemux.png no need to add the extension
<Kopfgeldjaeger> fixed
<norsetto> Kopfgeldjaeger: Categories=AudioVideo need to add a final ;
<Kopfgeldjaeger> fixed in local version
<Kopfgeldjaeger> (already)
<norsetto> Kopfgeldjaeger: Comment=A Simple Visual Video Editor should be changed to imperative (like, Edit your Videos)
<Kopfgeldjaeger> changed.
<proppy> soren: ping
<soren> proppy: pong
<Kopfgeldjaeger> i'll also add the german translation with *[de] 
<norsetto> Kopfgeldjaeger: can you add an homepage entry to the description in control?
<Kopfgeldjaeger> yes
<norsetto> Kopfgeldjaeger: a watch file could be nice to have too
<norsetto> Kopfgeldjaeger: the Maintainer field also need to be changed
<Kopfgeldjaeger> i do not think that would really work @watch-file, the files are mirrored on berlios and sf and are labeled unusually (avidemux-2.4-preview1.tar.gz for example)
<proppy> soren: I thought about what you told me yesterday
<proppy> soren: about the autoconf bloat vs a simple Makefile project
<norsetto> Kopfgeldjaeger: it may need some work then
<proppy> soren: I checked against the upstream Makefile, but it lacks an install: target
<proppy> soren: Is it fine to add it in a cdbs patch ?
<soren> proppy: It's much easier to just install it directly from debian/rules
<proppy> soren: the upstream also lacks ChangeLog and News file
<proppy> NEWS
<norsetto> Kopfgeldjaeger: btw, you do have a manpage already, its just a matter of installing it
<proppy> soren: directly override the install rules and cpying by hand ? or using dh_install and .install file
<norsetto> Kopfgeldjaeger: no wait, you commented that out
<Kopfgeldjaeger> youre right, shame on me
<proppy> soren: I see
<ScottK> norsetto: Why was the old one in Multiverse?
<soren> proppy: Alright.
<ScottK> Oops.
<norsetto> scottk: dependancies
<soren> proppy: You might want to look at the post-install stuff in the cdbs docs.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> hm, do i have to tell dh_installman where the file is?
<ScottK> norsetto: I was scrolled back and didn't realize it.  Sorry for the noise.
<proppy> soren: ok thanks
<norsetto> scottk: don't be sorry, I'm glad you check it out too
<norsetto> ScottK: btw, do you know if I have to do something to activate my ubuntu.com address? It seems it is not working yet
<ScottK> norsetto: I had to go bug someone, but I don't recall who.
<ScottK> IIRC I did it with a LP question.
<norsetto> ScottK: ok, maybe they know in #launchpad
<Hobbsee> norsetto: how long since you became a member?
<ScottK> Maybe.
<norsetto> Hobbsee: good question, I actually don't know, let me check
<norsetto> Hobbsee: 21/9
<proppy> soren: thanks for the hint
<Hobbsee> norsetto: if you get my email, give me a yell
* norsetto hopes austrialians use a decent data format
<Hobbsee> ok, it got rejected
<Hobbsee> norsetto: iirc, the email is somewhat botched.
<norsetto> Hobbsee: ok, let me ask in #launchpad (hoping there is somebody alive there)
<Kopfgeldjaeger> builds without problems in gutsy, i will try to get dh_installman working and then upload it
<simu> hello, trying to print with a laserjet using the recommended ppd driver but the printer doenst print and cups doesnt show an error
<Kopfgeldjaeger> simu: better try #ubuntu
<jdong> !support
<ubotu> the official ubuntu support channel is #ubuntu. Also see http://ubuntu.com/support and http://ubuntuforums.org
<simu> using pxlmono works so far that some garbage comes out of the printer
<simu> but sing the reccomended drivers nothing happens
<LaserJock> dholbach: ping
<dholbach> LaserJock: in the CC meeting atm
<dholbach> LaserJock: can you PM me, so I get back to you later on?
<LaserJock> dholbach: yep
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<norsetto> LaserJock: hi .... was that email real or a laserjoke?
<LaserJock> norsetto: real
<LaserJock> norsetto: please reply ASAP ;-)
<norsetto> LaserJock: oh :-(
<LaserJock> norsetto: you don't want to do it?
<norsetto> LaserJock: its just that I must be the most boring person here ....
<LaserJock> norsetto: no way, you've got such and interesting story
<norsetto> LaserJock: wait, I need to copy this and show it to my wife
<bddebian> norsetto: Nope, that'd be me :)
<bddebian> StevenK: You still around?
<norsetto> bddebian: boring de debian ;-)
<bddebian> Exactly :-)
<Kopfgeldjaeger> norsetto: so, just uploaded it to REVU. the manpage is now added correctly
<norsetto> Kopfgeldjaeger: cool
<StevenK> bddebian: Not for long
<bddebian> StevenK: Just a quickie.  libapache-asp-perl also depends libapache-ssi-perl but apache2 has mod_include.  Totally different?
<StevenK> Not sure.
* norsetto goes to have dinner
<mertiki> Hi, I created a source package for Gnucash 2.2.1 based on the Debian one to fix the bug #129759 and wanted to see if my work has any chances to be OK for Gutsy
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 129759 in gnucash "new upstream release 2.2.0" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/129759
<mertiki> I came speaking about it here because I know that the final Gutsy release is in few weeks
<mertiki> And if Gnucash isn't upgraded to version 2.2.1, there's risks that people will have incompatible gnucash files with the future releases
<mertiki> Does anyone can look at this?
<Hobbsee> please follow the instructions at !uvf
<Hobbsee> !uvf
<ubotu> uvf is Upstream Version Freeze.  For an exception, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess#head-9523bc4076ff011324d67cddc97969ec609618d6
<mertiki> Hobbsee : thanks, I will
<zul> you might or might not get one though
<mertiki> Hobbsee : I wasn't sure that I should use this method because I'm not the actual maintainer of the package
<Hobbsee> it's group maintainership
<mertiki> of course, because it's late in the Gutsy development phase
<mertiki> Ok good, thanks for these informations
<Hobbsee> then your chances are somewhat slim
<mertiki> at worst, it will be for Gutsy + 1
<ScottK> mertiki: 2.2.1 is in Debian, so it's possible.  I'd do the UVFe if you think it's important.
<mertiki> ScottK : I just did a Debian merged package, I just had to fix two little things, and I use the 2.2.1 version now, it's stable and all working
<ScottK> mertiki: Then include the debdiff from the debian version in your UVFe.  That'll improve your chances signficantly.
<mertiki> ScottK : When doing a UVF, it's asked to provide diffstats for the tarballs, should I do a diffstats of the orig.tar.gz AND the diff.gz tarballs?
<ScottK> Just the orig.tar.gz
<mertiki> OK, so I attach diffstats and debdiff?
<ScottK> changelog diff
<ScottK> build log
<ScottK> install log
<ScottK> All the stuff that's in the link Hobsee gave you.
<ScottK> Plus the debdiff since you have that.
<mertiki> ScottK : Ok, one last question, it's specified that the needed changelog aren't the debian/changelog one, so where do I find the needed changelogs?
<ScottK> It's the upstream changelog.
<ScottK> Often called CHANGES
<ScottK> In the orig.tar.gz
<mertiki> ScottK : Okay, I understand! I wasn't totally sure, thanks
<ScottK> No problem.
<mertiki> ScottK : It will take some time before I add the needed files to the bug report because it's the first time that I provide these files and I want to do a good job
<ScottK> Don't forget to subscribe motu-uvf to the bug when you are done.
<mertiki> ScottK : I won't forget :)
<Kopfgeldjaeger> is there a (not thaaaat big) application that needs packaging and i could try my luck on?
<bddebian> la la la la
<soren> bddebian: hear head
<soren> hear hear, even.
<soren> "hear head"... gah...
<ScottK> Well I got my package I made last night uploaded to Debian.
<soren> Which one was that?
<ScottK> 1 hour to make the package and ~30 minutes with a DD to get it reviewed and uploaded.  Who says it's hard to get stuff into Debian?
<soren> I do.
<soren> Well, gotta run.
<ScottK> soren: http://ftp-master.debian.org/~ajt/new/pysubnettree_0.1-1_i386.html
<bddebian> gads this apache and perl shit is confusing
<ScottK> Ahh. MY EYES!
<ScottK> Apache and Perl in the same line.  Arghh!!!
<DktrKranz> blueyed, around?
<geser> bddebian: cleaning up the apache modules?
<bddebian> geser: Trying but making an idiot out of myself in the process as usual :-(
<ScottK> But also getting it cleaned up too.  Keep at it.
<enyc> Hrrm
<enyc> widelands build-11 would be nice in gutsy but its a bit late now I think ;-)
<blueyed> yes, DktrKranz.
<DktrKranz> blueyed, any news on bug 135695 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 135695 in php-interbase "FTBFS: depends on php4-dev, which has been removed" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/135695
<bddebian> That's an ugly bug
<bddebian> I was looking at that last night
<blueyed> Have you tested the debdiff, DktrKranz?
<DktrKranz> not yet, but since I was after a similar bug (bug 110637), I would like to mark mine as dupe
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 110637 in php-interbase "php5-interbase missing in feisty" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/110637
<DktrKranz> bddebian, that package requires *a lot* of love
<DktrKranz> (or firebird in main...)
<blueyed> Can you test the debdiff, please?
<DktrKranz> blueyed, sure
<DktrKranz> it's huge, so it has to be reviewed carefully
<DktrKranz> but, at a first look, it seems identical to a package I uploaded to REVU some time ago
<blueyed> A new package?
<blueyed> Anyway, the most differences are because of removal of the php4 files.
<blueyed> I'll subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors, ok?
<bddebian> I still don't get why we are keeping it just for packages broken with the php-interbase from PHP5
<blueyed> Would be great, if you could test and confirm the bug, DktrKranz.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> should i just create a patch to change some little things in the avidemux (upstream) manpage or should i copy it to under debian/ and edit that file?
<DktrKranz> bddebian, B-D on a software in universe, doesn't fit good with PHP in main
<bddebian> DktrKranz: That doesn't make it any less stupid to me :)
<blueyed> bddebian: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/php-interbase/+bug/135716/comments/1
<DktrKranz> well, it has a rdepends, so we can't just drop it
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 135716 in php-interbase "Please remove php-interbase from Gutsy" [Undecided,Invalid] 
<ScottK> Kopfgeldjaeger: Make a patch with a debdiff.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> ScottK: what do you mean with debdiff? i do not want to patch the now-in-the-repos version, im creating a new package (for hardy)
<ScottK> Kopfgeldjaeger: Are you wanting to change the current package with the same upstream version or package a new upstream version?
<ScottK> For the former, a debdiff is what you want.
<ScottK> For that latter, add the patch and then upload to REVU.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> ScottK: new upstream version (im working with the svn version, but i think till hardy a new version will be out)
<ScottK> OK.  Then once you have it ready, upload it to REVU.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> i already uploaded it to REVU. so, just create the patch for the manpage and handle this as you usually do... hum, i will need a manual. ;)
<Kopfgeldjaeger> do you have a link that describes how to use patches (with debhelper)? i cant find anything :/
<ScottK> Kopfgeldjaeger: Look on the Ubuntu wiki in the MOTU School pages.  There's one there.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> aah :-)
<Kopfgeldjaeger> is it bad style to just call "patch -FoObAr < debian/patches/001_fix_raboff.patch" in debian/rules ?
<geser> why not use a patch system?
<geser> if you do it manually don't forget to undo the patching in the clean target
<Kopfgeldjaeger> i do not really look through it yet...
<Kopfgeldjaeger> it's just a 2 lines patch (ok, as patch it maybe would be 5 lines or so)
<DktrKranz> blueyed, debdiff seems good. I post a comment on the bug
<geser> Kopfgeldjaeger: what about not using patch, and patching the file directly and using the file in /debian/patches for documentation only?
<geser> this way you don't have the problem with patch/unpatch
<ScottK> Someone who cares may want to look into an evolution-python UVFe.  I new version was just uploaded to Debian.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> geser: so, do the change outside of debian/ ?
<geser> yes, it's not forbidden
<geser> if the package doesn't use a patch system and the change is small patch directly is an option
<Kopfgeldjaeger> ok, i will do it this way.
<pkern> soren: ping
<ScottK> I'll be AFK from now until Sunday night, so have a nice rest of your week everyone.
<_MMA_> You to Scott.
<geser> ScottK: did you upload websvn or was it synced?
<ScottK> It was a sync that I did.
<ScottK> I uploaded it after using syncpackage.
<ScottK> Did I mess up?
<geser> no, I only filed a bug for it, bug #139985
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 139985 in websvn "[Sync request]  Sync websvn (1.61-23) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/139985
<ScottK> Bah.  Sorry about that.
<geser> are we now supposed to use syncpackage to sync a package
<geser> ?
<ScottK> Not really most of the time.
<ScottK> I probably shouldn't have.
<ScottK> There's an issue if an orig.tar.gz is in a PPA where you have to, but other than that, no.
<ScottK> Gotta run.
<geser> ScottK: have fun
<pkern> soren: What I wanted to say everytime I pinged you: I could also subscribe u-u-s if you don't have time, no problem.
<ajmitch> good morning
<geser> Hi ajmitch
<norsetto> ajmitch: hi
<norsetto> geser: hi 2 u too :-)
<geser> norsetto: Hi
<norsetto> anyone has any idea where this libcairo2 version can come from? 1.4.10-1turner3~feisty0.1
<DktrKranz> norsetto, where is it?
<norsetto> DktrKranz: yes, thats the question :-)
<DktrKranz> ah, I imagined it was on LP somewhere
<DktrKranz> anyway, ask apt-cache policy
<DktrKranz> (if you got it through updates, of course)
<norsetto> DktrKranz: I don't think its from an ubuntu repository, thats why I'm asking (can't find it in archive.ubuntu.com)
<geser> have you some 3rd-party repos?
<norsetto> geser: no, its not a problem of mine, its bug 145786
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 145786 in gtk+2.0 "libgtk2.0-dev needs dependencies fails to install" [Medium,Invalid]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145786
<DktrKranz> "3rd-party repos", I'm starting to hate that. on italian forums some people completely destroyed python infrastructure for these kind of NON-repositories
<norsetto> in the changelog is this: Matti Lindell <mlind@cs.joensuu.fi>
<norsetto> apparently is some kind of font fix ......
<pwnguin> DktrKranz: maybe someone should write a "how to use open source" within the context of ubuntu and put it as part of Examples
<pwnguin> or rather, record
<norsetto> here is the archive: http://myy.helia.fi/~karte/feisty-font-fix/
<DktrKranz> norsetto, you are quicker than me :)
<DktrKranz> just for a couple of seconds...
<norsetto> DktrKranz: indeed he has these at the end of his sources.lst ......
<norsetto> DktrKranz: oh well, anybody wants the pleasure to answer to that bug report :-)
* DktrKranz looks at norsetto 
<geser> norsetto: seb128 already did
<DktrKranz> and, please, gift him with a huge, red poster saying "use 3rd-party repos at your own risk"
<geser> DktrKranz: that was already tried with a wallpaper
<DktrKranz> who should I bother to have it on a default installation?
<DktrKranz> to have it shown by default
<geser> the story was: there was an infamous list of 3rd party repos and someone who ended on this list put a package inside his repo which overwrote the wallpaper for everybody installing his package
<geser> soon some people complained about it and tried to get him out of the Ubuntu community
<Kopfgeldjaeger> so, uploaded new revision of avidemux... http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=312 feel free to test ;) for me, it builds without problems on feisty and gutsy
<pwnguin> hmm. it'd be neat if zoom triggered an xrandr setting
<pwnguin> so things like pdf rerender at high res
<norsetto> geser: hmmm, he is not by any chance portoguese?
<norsetto> DktrKranz: he, that was a nice solution you found for bug 145584
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 145584 in gambas2 "[UNMETDEPS]  gambas2 has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145584
<DktrKranz> norsetto, I asked a user if it was supported in other archs
<DktrKranz> he told me not, so I dropped them completely
<DktrKranz> as much as gambas 1 did
<DktrKranz> porting to other architecture is targeted in gambas 3, so it could be ok for now
<norsetto> DktrKranz: thats what they say in their home page about 64 bits: Gambas cannot work with 64 bits pointers at the moment..
<DktrKranz> yep
<DktrKranz> but they should have said "Gambas cannot work with nothing than a i386 dusty box"
<DktrKranz> since debian ftbfs too...
<norsetto> ajmitch: looks acceptable to me, what do you think?
<norsetto> DktrKranz: even though we could spare the doc package :-)
<DktrKranz> norsetto, let me see...
<DktrKranz> norsetto, it does not depends on other packages, but it looks strange to me have gambas2-doc on all ports without no binary packages available
<norsetto> DktrKranz: it depends on what is in the rules, most probably they have a binary-indep target which is specific to that package
<DktrKranz> no deps at all: http://packages.ubuntu.com/gutsy/doc/gambas2-doc
<norsetto> DktrKranz: beside, I could want (I'm strange, I know) to install it on my system just to read the docs
<DktrKranz> If you think so, it's quite easy to revert the change :)
<norsetto> DktrKranz: and we really don't save any compilation btw, is architecture: all
<DktrKranz> anyway, it looks weird to me, but I am surely wrok
<DktrKranz> *wrong
<DktrKranz> yep, it will be compiled using the same buildd :)
<DktrKranz> looking at lintian...
<DktrKranz> no, it doesn't report "too big for a binary target" error
<DktrKranz> (or similar, I don't remember the exact error...)
<norsetto> DktrKranz: here is the complete list of lintian tags: http://lintian.debian.org/reports/tags.html
<TheMuso> Hey folks.
<DktrKranz> norsetto, is this a full list or simply the ones recorded in debian packages? I'm unable to find that error...
<norsetto> DktrKranz: perhaps is only for current debian packages
<DktrKranz> np, I'm going to dig lintian to find it
<DktrKranz> norsetto, found: "arch-dep-package-has-big-usr-share"
<norsetto> DktrKranz: never seen that before ... what is the expanded version?
<DktrKranz> norsetto, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/483/
<norsetto> DktrKranz: ok, so its in line with our discussion
<DktrKranz> yep
<DktrKranz> I was worried not to issue that warning (an error, actually...)
<DktrKranz> and it didn't
<RAOF> Morning TheMuso
<blueyed> Do you expect "apt-get build-dep foo" to also do an "upgrade"?
<crimsun> no, and it shouldn't unless there are actually updated binary packages since last time update was executed
<blueyed> yes, there new/upgradable packages, of course. It does not matter, if I run apt-get update just before.
<blueyed> crimsun: see http://pastebin.com/m245fed60
<blueyed> This is annoying, because it causes apt-build to fail, when installing build dependencies.
<blueyed> (and is confusing anyway IMHO)
<blueyed> I'm about to file about it. Does this sound reasonable?
<crimsun> it's related to debian 358730
<ubotu> Debian bug 358730 in apt-build "apt-build: Builds anyway if builddeps aren't satisfied" [Important,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/358730
<crimsun> you may wish to add commentary there
<proppy> someone know a package using makefile.mk cdbs rules ?
<crimsun> proppy: apg
<proppy> Hope it will help me to figure out why I get dpkg-genchanges: failure: cannot read files list file: No such file or directory
<proppy> thanks
#ubuntu-motu 2007-09-28
<proppy> crimsun: nice one
<proppy> crimsun: thanks a lot
<proppy> crimsun: that was exactly what I was looking for
<blueyed> crimsun: build-deps are satisfied in this case. It's not the same bug.. (I've just built the new packages before). apt-get build-dep should not upgrade any pending packages, should it?
<proppy> I forgot to include dhelper.ml
<proppy> mk
<proppy> thanks a lot
<crimsun> blueyed: yes, it should.
<blueyed> why?
* norsetto goes to bed
<blueyed> Night, norsetto.
<crimsun> blueyed: it does what's necessary to satisfy having the build-dependencies present.
<blueyed> but, postfix does not depend on apache at all. Also the dependencies would be fulfilled then with the currently installed packages.
<blueyed> the new version is just "$VERSION+aptbuild".
<blueyed> crimsun: do you still consider this a non-bug?
<crimsun> blueyed: no, I don't
<blueyed> crimsun: hmm. that appears to happen on Feisty only. I cannot confirm it on my Gutsy system..
<jalvesaq> hi
<jalvesaq> I'm following the instructions from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU, and uploaded two packages to revu, but I don't know what to do now.
<jalvesaq> Can anyone help me?
<minghua> jalvesaq: Not much to do next, basically just wait until someone reviews you packages.
<jalvesaq> minghua: Thanks for the answer! One package is interesting only for Brazilian people. Is there any way of making Brazilian Motus knowing about the package?
<minghua> jalvesaq: Not sure.  You can always send them private emails if you know who they are.
<jalvesaq> I don't know them. So, I'll just wait. Thanks again. Theses were my questions, so, good by!
<bddebian> Heya gang
<RAOF> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Hello RAOF
<RAOF> Stupid frikkin nvidia screenflashing with opengl crap mutter mutter grumble...
<Amaranth> RAOF: wow, the iwl3945 driver causes a lot less wakeups
<slavi1> who would be the proper party to notify regarding package dependency breakage in gutsy?
<Amaranth> (i finally got it working)
<pwnguin> maybe not so much
<imbrandon> hrm
<ajmitch> yes?
<imbrandon> ajmitch: just getting fed up with licenses, considering using *bsd, was just looking at Debian GNU/kFreeBSD
<imbrandon> tis all
<ajmitch> I see
<imbrandon> but that still is the gnu toolchain
<ajmitch> and you want to avoid anything GNU now
<imbrandon> bah, probably just the mood i'm in after some blog posts etc
<bddebian> imbrandon: Debian GNU/Hurd baby :-)
<bddebian> Oh, NM :-)
<imbrandon> heh
<bddebian> There's always Windows :-)
<imbrandon> LOL
<ajmitch> from the sound of things, that's what he wants, except free in $
<imbrandon> well honestly here is my delima ( and has been for a while but its been bugging me more this release cycle ) I absolutely hate GPLv3 and and some other licenses etc but i love the tools Debian offers
<imbrandon> but BSD is almost as bad because it can just be stolen
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> and why do you absolutely hate gplv3?
<bddebian> Plan9? :)
<imbrandon> actualy i just am agrovated at the invaraint thang in gdfl and gplv3
<bddebian> Minix?
<imbrandon> ajmitch: mostly because of things that RMS tried to free us from like tvoization etc i think is un needed burdens
<minghua> If you don't like the GNU toolchain in Debian GNU/kFreeBSD, why not just use the real FreeBSD?
<minghua> Is there a invariant section in GPLv3?
<imbrandon> minghua: well thats the thing its not that i dont like GNU infact i LOVE Debian/Ubuntu
<imbrandon> i guess i would be happy with freebsd + apt + dpkg + debs etc etc etc
<imbrandon> but thats tons of work
<imbrandon> i dunno actualy i havent made a decision in months over this because i dont see a clear awnser
<imbrandon> just grumbling
<imbrandon> and no there is no invaraint section in gplv3 iirc
<minghua> Well, debian/rules requires GNU Make to work, so it's probably a long short to port Debian to anything without GNU toolchain.
<imbrandon> yup
<minghua> ... and who told you that APT or dpkg won't adopt GPLv3? ;-)
<imbrandon> i can only hope they wont
<minghua> Let me check...
<imbrandon> as i said i dont have a clear plan but the deeper i get the more unhappy i have become, just grumbling at this point i'm sure i'll be arround ubuntu for alot longer
<imbrandon> just clearing some thoughts
<minghua> Both APT and dpkg are licensed under GPLv2+, so v3 is a real probability.
<imbrandon> freebsd is too gentooish for me ( yes i know thats where ports came from , atleaste the idea )
<imbrandon> actualy you know linux ( kernel ) + bsd userland + apt (gplv2fork) + dpkg (gplv2fork) + deb would rock but highly highly unlikely
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> wonder if anyone has done any work on getting linux to compile with bsd tools
* imbrandon ponders
<pwnguin> i could have sworn nv can push 1440x900
<minghua> You need a non-GCC compiler first.
<minghua> And IMHO a non-GCC compiler that can compile Linux is not gonna happen.
<bddebian> imbrandon: Why not just write your whole own OS? ;-P
<imbrandon> bddebian: hehe
<slavi1> minghua: ICC
<slavi1> add a ? to that
<pwnguin> does ICC compile the kernel yet?
<imbrandon> intel's compiler?
<pwnguin> yea
<pwnguin> look on the bright side
<pwnguin> nobody can steal their source
<imbrandon> heh
<slavi1> dunno, don't see why I couldn't
<slavi1> why IT couldn't
<pwnguin> imbrandon: just switch to openSolaris
<pwnguin> imbrandon: Ian Murdock did
<imbrandon> pwnguin: hehe i already package for gnusolaris.org
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> but not a bad idea
<imbrandon> ;)
<pwnguin> its a horrible idea
<pwnguin> none of my hardware works with their CDs
<imbrandon> i havent tried a ton of hardware but the important things work
<imbrandon> for me
<minghua> slavi1: Good point, but I think I'll stick with GCC. :-)
<slavi1> minghua: was just a suggestion
<slavi1> also, anyone know how to get ut2k4 to work with alsa sound?
<imbrandon> slavi1: http://www.linux-gamers.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=363
<slavi1> hmm, I think the problem is because ut2k4 is 32bit
<slavi1> I get an error with aoss that libaoss.so cannot be preloaded
<RAOF> slavi1: Yeah, that'll be your problem (if you're running x86-64).  It needs to load a 32bit aoss, and we don't ship one.
<slavi1> RAOF: I read that there is a 64bit ut2k4, any idea where to get it?
<slavi1> I found a demo version for amd64 ...
<RAOF> slavi1: No.  Google might.
<slavi1> :(
* slavi1 is preordering ut3 collector's edition
* RAOF fights the urge to package libgnome-keyring-cil instead of marking.
<slavi1> RAOF: are you part of motu?
<RAOF> slavi1: Yes, although the plaque still hasn't lost it's shine.
<slavi1> because java packages are sort of messed up (6.0.3 java6 jre needs to be uploaded since other java6 packages depend on it)
* slavi1 tried building packages, but not successfully
<slavi1> also, may I request anjuta 2.2.1 with all plugins for amd64? ^^
* RAOF shudders.  Java is *not* my thing, and those packages were... complex, last I checked.
<slavi1> grr
<slavi1> anjuta then?
<slavi1> ^^
<RAOF> slavi1: Bug number?  Is it a bug with the current packages, or a request for a new upstream version?
<slavi1> new upstream version :)
<TheMuso> Upstream version freeze is in effect.
<slavi1> oh ... ok
<RAOF> Colour the archives frozen solid.  Blowtorches exist, but there needs to be a good reason to crack them out.
<slavi1> anjuta 2.x is still in dev and 2.2.1 is a bugfix release AFAIK
<slavi1> Anjuta 2.2.1 is follow up bugfix release to stable 2.2.x (Hurricane) series. It fixes several important crash bugs and improves stability.
<RAOF> slavi1: So, find a *whole bunch* of bugs open in launchpad that the new release fixes, check that the new release doesn't break anything, and follow the procedures for a UVFe.
<slavi1> http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?forum_id=733330
<RAOF> Please, not sourceforge!  NOOOOOOO!
<slavi1> what if the bugfixes were submitted to anjuta? (not on launchpad)
<slavi1> oh, come on ...
<slavi1> as in "people went to the dev and he fixed them"
<RAOF> slavi1: Well, they should have filed bugs on the Ubuntu packages, but I *suppose* the UVFe team may accept "it fixes bugs in Ubuntu that haven't been reported".  Maybe.
<minghua> slavi1: Somebody need to audit the code changes in the new upstream version.  If you care about anjuta, that "somebody" means you. :-)
<slavi1> where is the howto for UVFe (what it is and such)
<slavi1> minghua: what do you mean by audit?
<RAOF> It just seems to me that "hosted on sourceforge" correlates well with "is essentially unmanaged, and is a bugger to package".
<minghua> slavi1: Let me find the procedure page for you.
<slavi1> RAOF: how come?
<slavi1> RAOF: don't you compile the stuff from source anyway?
<minghua> ! info anjuta
<ubotu> anjuta: A GNOME development IDE for C/C++. In component universe, is optional. Version 1:1.2.4a-5build1 (feisty), package size 913 kB, installed size 2144 kB
<slavi1> !info anjuta gutsy
<ubotu> anjuta: A GNOME development IDE, for C/C++. In component universe, is optional. Version 2:2.2.0-1ubuntu2 (gutsy), package size 1782 kB, installed size 4324 kB
<minghua> Hmm, it surprises me that anjuta is not in main.
<RAOF> slavi1: Yeah, but there's source, and there's source.  It's very possible for code to work, but be difficult to package/maintain.
<slavi1> RAOF: I tried to compile anjuta, but for some reason it told me that it couldn't find libapr, libapr-utils, subversion and neon ... also, libapr is named "libapr0", is the zero necessary?
<minghua> slavi1: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess#head-1d28045481b8803d4815989e93edc4206f4848c4
<slavi1> thank you
<RAOF> slavi1: Yes, see the debian library packaging guide.
<slavi1> err
* slavi1 hasn't had luck in building packages
<slavi1> maybe I should wait for the backports team if there is one?
<slavi1> or until there is a debian package for it? :P
<pwnguin> there isnt one?
<minghua> There is.
<minghua> anjuta |  2:2.2.1-1 |      unstable | source, amd64, i386
<slavi1> ^^
<jdong> the mythical backports team
<slavi1> is it safe to use debian packages?
<pwnguin> source packages yes
<minghua> (if it builds)
<jdong> slavi1: it is safe to build debian source packages on Ubuntu, then use them
<jdong> slavi1: it is NOT safe to take a .deb file from Debian and install it onto Ubuntu
<slavi1> :(
<slavi1> I shouldn't have a problem building from the source package right?
<slavi1> should I get anjuta-common and anjuta source packages?
<slavi1> hmm, I remember seeing these original.tar.gz and stuff I just forget where the packaging guide is :(
<RAOF> !packagingguide
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
<slavi1> ty
<RAOF> Amaranth: How do people handle the screen-flashes with nvidia & compiz???
<Amaranth> RAOF: What screen flashes?
<StevenK> Amaranth: So, does compiz talk yet? :-)
<RAOF> Amaranth: Where, every now and then, there's a black flash for a frame or so.
<Amaranth> RAOF: I get that maybe once a day
<RAOF> I've only just noticed this because I spent a little time with Xgl disabled.
<ajmitch> RAOF: never seen that problem, but I haven't used compiz for quite awhile on my desktop
<RAOF> Happens multiple times a minute for me.
<bddebian> StevenK: No but it burps :-)
<Amaranth> RAOF: your refresh rate is set wrong in compiz?
<Amaranth> and/or vsync is disable
<bddebian> StevenK: Oh, btw, I hope you don't mind, I asked for libapache-asp-perl to be removed
<Amaranth> disabled*
<RAOF> Amaranth: No?  Set to 60, which is the LCD rate.
<Amaranth> RAOF: weird
<Amaranth> RAOF: restart X
<Amaranth> and/or the system
<RAOF> Amaranth: Oh, is *that* the cause?  nvidia-settings suggests that the refresh rate is *actually* 59.9something Hz?
<RAOF> Amaranth: Or use Xgl, which I am again.
<RAOF> No, if only wine wasn't totally broken...
<ajmitch> RAOF: how is it broken this week?
<RAOF> ajmitch: It doesn't work when it can't get a direct rendering context (ie: under Xgl).
<RAOF> Even though it's perfectly possible for it to work.
<StevenK> bddebian: Meh, file one for libapache-filter-perl too, saying that libapache2-mod-perl2 provides the same functionality for apache 2
<StevenK> I need to sit down and figure out why WoW hangs on exit with wine 0.9.45
<RAOF> StevenK: Because it's not a new wine release if it doesn't break something that was previously working.
<Amaranth> Yeah, like freelancer
* Amaranth loves that game
<Amaranth> been playing it in vmware, it actually runs too fast
* RAOF hates on Banshee
<RAOF> When you import a CD, please use the profile that I've told you to.
<RAOF> Also, when I say "remove from disc", I expect files to be deleted.
<StevenK> RAOF: Yes, well.
<StevenK> If I could find a 0.9.44 .deb, I'd see if it was broken with that
<bddebian> StevenK: I was thinking that too but I was starting to feel like an idiot when talking to Thom :'-(  What about libapache-ssi-perl?  I think perl2 has that too, no?
<RAOF> StevenK: It wasn't, that I remember.
<ajmitch> StevenK: that's not hard
<StevenK> bddebian: I've not looked at libapache-ssi-perl
* ajmitch tends to use winehq packages anyway
<StevenK> ajmitch: Meh, I haven't looked that much
<bddebian> Well get on it man.. ;-)
<ajmitch> 0.9.41 is the last one that works well for me :)
<StevenK> bddebian: Bite me, I have paid work to do
<StevenK> bddebian: :-)
<bddebian> I don't even know how it's different than mod_include to be honest
<ajmitch> Hobbsee!
<bddebian> mod_include in apache2 uses perl from what I understood
<bddebian> Do we really need a freakin' manpage for a gui-only package?
<RAOF> bddebian: Yes, so I can go apropos foo
<bddebian> pfft
<Amaranth> bddebian: Apparently everything needs a man page
<Hobbsee> ajmitch!
<bddebian> I know, I've been told that, it just seems so dumb
<Amaranth> alacarte has a man page, which is really stupid
* ajmitch hugs Hobbsee 
<Amaranth> It doesn't even have any documentation but it does have a boiler plate man page
* Hobbsee hugs ajmitch :)
<Amaranth> Last touched in 2005 :)
<bddebian> Hrm, do I try to get this in Debian first... Hmm
<ajmitch> yes
<TheMuso> Afternoonfolks
<TheMuso> Or should I say, good $Time_Of_Day
<ajmitch> hi TheMuso
<Hobbsee> hi TheMuso
<bddebian> Hello TheMuso
<bddebian> Holy crap does classpath take a while to build
<StevenK> It only took ten minutes to fail on the buildds.
<bddebian> Ah, well maybe I have "fixed" it then :)
* minghua finally built poedit to have a try.
<bddebian> If I stick the stupid man pages in debian/ will dh_installman pick them up or do I need to pass the files to dh_installman?
<StevenK> The latter, or in debian/manpages or debian/<package>.manpages
<bddebian> Duh, no shit, thanks StevenK
#ubuntu-motu 2008-09-22
 * Hobbsee wishes ember would test build *before* he files sync requests.
<asac> (win12
<jdong> Hobbsee: oh that's always fun.
<jdong> Hobbsee: like when people tell me a specific version of a backport builds and works fine and I get it and it fails on get-build-deps
<Hobbsee> jdong: unless he has an ia64, or hppa, that never built here.
<Hobbsee> jdong: ah yes.  well, backports == crack, so it's hardly surprising.
<Hobbsee> actually, no, loic's filed this.
<Hobbsee> ember's done the ftbfs fix.
 * directhex wishes Hobbsee would do exciting, magical things to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/monodoc/+bug/256853
<Elbrus> jdong: two days ago you fixed fp-units-gtk2 for me.
<Elbrus> jdong: I tested the patch on my own system before I filed it, now with the patch applied I see all different failures to build
<jdong> Elbrus: so the patch did not work?
<Elbrus> jdong: do you now of other packages closely related to fpc that migt have change in the mean time?
<Elbrus> jdong: well, the patch fixed my initial problem, but now I have a new one
<Elbrus> jdong: and I am just not sure how or against what to file a bug (if I am not doing anything wrong myself)
<jdong> ok can you pastebin the error or something?
<Elbrus> jdong: I am running again "clean" (have been trying fixing all day)
<Elbrus> jdong: http://paste.ubuntu.com/49118/
<Elbrus> jdong: I can work around this by including some extra paths (-Fu and -Fi), but then I get an other problem
<Elbrus> jdong: http://paste.ubuntu.com/49120/
<Elbrus> jdong: if I replace the fond on line 65 in gtkdef.pp I get one step further, but again, errors... that is somewhere where I stopped
<jdong> seems like similar errors to the earlier ones, but different place.
<jdong> hmm does Debian's latest version work any better?
<Elbrus> jdong: Debian Sid has worked for months
<Elbrus> and still does
<jdong> Elbrus: ok, so the debian sid version is good?
<Elbrus> winff is in the NEW queue at Debian
<jdong> well maybe we should just take that.
<jdong> any fpc gurus awake in here?
<jdong> does anything explode if we sync fpc from Sid?
<Elbrus> jdong: do you want me to test using only debian fpc binaries in an intrepid environment?
<Elbrus> if that is possible?
<jdong> Elbrus: well I'd rather you build fpc from debian in an intrepid pbuilder
<jdong> but first I need to know if I'll break anything else in Ubuntu by just pulling that package from debian
<jdong> as you can tell I have no experience in the fpc world.
<Elbrus> jdong: me neither, I was just building a package that uses it...
<Elbrus> I'll be back shortly, food is ready :)
<nhandler> I'm currently working on patching a .desktop file. The .desktop file contains multiple Comment fields for the same locale. These comments contain different values. What should I do about this? desktop-file-validate complains about having two comment fields for the same locale, and I am unable to read the actual comment to decide which one to keep
<RAOF> nhandler: Ask in a #ubuntu-translators?
<RAOF> Or ask the might google to translate it for you?
<nhandler> RAOF: Is there a way to figure out the language that the two letters symbolize?
<RAOF> Ask google to guess the language from the comment? :)
<RAOF> Or, post the actual two-letter-code here or in #ubuntu-translators and see if someone knows?
<Elbrus> RAOF: there appears to be no #ubuntu-translators
<nhandler> Well, Google detected the LO comment as Laothian. However, it is unable to translate it to English
<RAOF> Elbrus: What about the #ubuntu-translators channel that I just joined?
<nhandler> It detected the FA comment as persian, but is unable to translate that to English either. I guess I'll try the -translators channel
<Elbrus> RAOF: I don't get it, when I used the link to the channel in my IRC reader I got to an empty channal
<nhandler> Elbrus: Try doing '/join #ubuntu-translators'
<Elbrus> nhandler: at another try I got to the right channel..
<nhandler> If nobody in the -translators channel is able to translate the strings, what should I do? Should I keep the comment that occurs later in the file (which I believe is the one that will be displayed)? Should I keep the comment that occurs first in the file? Should I remove both comments? Should I do nothing (and ignore the warning from desktop-file-validate)?
<RAOF> nhandler: I'd probably do nothing to the desktop file, and file a bug upstream.
<RAOF> nhandler: Since you've got no way to choose between the two comments, the default action should be to do nothing.
<Elbrus> nhandler,RAOF: it's the same I would do.
<Steck> If anyone is available to answer a question, do motu maintainers consider any new upstream releases for inclusion in intrepid?
<Steck> Specifically, gnome-mud
<Steck> I'm unfamiliar with this process on a whole :)
<crimsun> at this point, we're in feature freeze (as stated in the topic), but you can read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess for the process to request an exception
<Steck> Thank you, for example.. if we were out of feature freeze, would this be an easy to accomplish request?
<crimsun> (up to) considerably easier
<Steck> Is that something that may be easier to request as a backport in intrepid once released?
<RAOF> Yes, assuming that it fits the backport criteria.
<RAOF> Also, it only gets into Intrepid backports if it's _already_ upgraded in Jaunty.
<Elbrus> jdong: building fpc in intrepid is not enough, it looks like lazarus has to be rebuild as well: lazarus-ide depends on fpc-abi-2.2 (the new fpc provides fpc-abi-2.2.2)
<CarlFK1> is there a qemu.deb of qemu's trunk?
 * RAOF wonders if the next abi for fpc will be 2.2.2.2?
<Steck> Thank you for your help crimsun and RAOF
<jdong> RAOF: are you a fpc expert?
<jdong> RAOF: I think I'm gonna regret the touched-it-last status
<RAOF> I don't even know what fpc _is_.
<RAOF> jdong: Welcome to the Miro experience!
<jdong> RAOF: lol
<Elbrus> Am I right you can use apt-cache rdepends to see reverse dependencies?
<jdong> yeah
<Elbrus> Then lazarus and fpc don't have much reverse dependencies
<jdong> I'm a bit nervous about touching fpc if it breaks the ABI
<Elbrus> seems I am nearly the first to use it for a package
<Elbrus> then I understand why there were so little bugs in Launchpad
<Elbrus> jdong: *if* all works well, I'll put the fpc and lazarus in my ppa (with winff)
<jdong> Elbrus: you might be the first person to try Pascal in Ubuntu :D
<Elbrus> jdong: I got that impression yes...
<Elbrus> but winff is really neat.
<Elbrus> so I am just trying
<jdong> yeah
<Elbrus> it's tough thou for my FIRST package
<tbielawa> soren, I am interested in working on the cobbler deployment.
<tbielawa> I'm reading over blueprints and mailing list archives now. But is there anything you can tell me specifically that should be mentioned?
<Nutzebahn> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/272210
<dholbach> good morning
<fabrice_sp> Morning Daniel
<dholbach> hi fabrice_sp
<iulian> Good morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hiya iulian, hi Koon!
<Koon> hello everyone !
<_ruben> grmbl .. apparently my local archive (as described in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto#Building%20With%20Local%20Packages) aint working properly .. when i apt-get update i get an Ign on the Release(.gpg) file, which is non-existent .. is dput/mini-dinstall supposed to create those files?
<geser> \o/ the u-u-s queue is now < 100 again
 * dholbach hugs geser! :)
<directhex> and u-m-s?
<dholbach> directhex: below 100 for quite a while
<geser> directhex: I can't do anything about u-m-s :(
<directhex> 1  â 75  of 141 results
<dholbach> directhex: that's including debian bugs
<dholbach> try these:
<dholbach>  - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-main-sponsors
<dholbach>  - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<geser> dholbach: thanks, those links are better then the ones I use usually
<dholbach> de rien :)
<geser> some more sponsoring and the u-u-s queue fits again on one page
<DktrKranz> 77 bugs, from my POV
<DktrKranz> quite lower than yesterday's 97 ;)
<dholbach> I think we should be a bit more rigorous about unsubscribing the sponsors' teams
<dholbach> in cases when there's still real work to be done
<directhex> dholbach, 71 then
<dholbach> right-o
<directhex> but order by least recently changed... and we have items in the list from 2005 O_o
<dholbach> maybe I should write a quick  unsub <bugnr>  script :)
<dholbach> directhex: the BUGS are from 2005
<directhex> oh, wait. my search broke
<DktrKranz> directhex, when I clear queue, I order bugs older touched first, so there's chances older contributions don't get lost
<directhex> 29 Confirmed bugs on the u-m-s list, the oldest being untouched since march
<directhex> where some guy named daniel holback commented
<directhex> s/ck/ch/
 * geser has finally the honour to sponsor crimsun after he sponsored me in the past
<dholbach> http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/unsub if anybody's interested :)
<james_w> dholbach: cool. Should it say "Please re-subscribe when ready"? Just so there can be no doubt, and so no fixes lost?
<dholbach> james_w: yeah, right, will add it
<dholbach> thanks james_w, done
 * james_w hugs dholbach 
 * dholbach hugs james_w back :)
 * tuxmaniac waves at dholbach 
<dholbach> hi tuxmaniac
<LucidFox> http://www.linux.org.ru/gallery/3106816.png <-- Ewwww...
<laga> what's so "eww" about that? firefox? or gnome?
<directhex> laga, the theme?
<nxvl> morging
<bddebian> Heya gang
 * directhex is still after a core dev to do fantastic magic things to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/monodoc/+bug/256853
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 256853 in monodoc "[FFe][merge request] Please merge monodoc 1.9-2 from Debian Unstable" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<iulian> Hi
<bddebian> Hi iulian
<iulian> Hello bddebian.
<geser> Hi iulian, bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser
<iulian> Heya geser.
<laszlok> hey dholbach
<dholbach> hiya laszlok
<dholbach> laszlok: release time? :)
<laszlok> yup :)
<laszlok> 0.10.1 tarball is on launchpad
<laszlok> a few bug fixes including the traceback you reported
<dholbach> laszlok: nice... I'll check it out in a bit
<directhex> something gstreamer related?
<dholbach> directhex: jokosher (yes, gstreamer related) :)
<laszlok> thanks a lot dholbach
<dholbach> anytime
<directhex> you know what would be silly? if ubuntu came with gstreamer0.8-doc despite shipping gstreamer 0.10
<dholbach> ?
<directhex> on a 101% unrelated note, have you ever heard mention of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/monodoc/+bug/256853 ?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 256853 in monodoc "[FFe][merge request] Please merge monodoc 1.9-2 from Debian Unstable" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<dholbach> laszlok: I'll give it a spin later on - thanks for your work on it!
<geser> DktrKranz: can you put your ~sru-verification hat on and check if bug 224077 needs more testing or can finally be moved to hardy-updats?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 224077 in gnumed-client "Outdated (buggy) GNUmed version (0.2.8.2) in Hardy " [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/224077
<bigon> is it me or there is an issue with flashplugin-nonfree on amd64?
<DktrKranz> geser, three users seem to confirm your update works as expected, so I guess it's safe enough to copy it to -updates
<sebner> huhu DktrKranz :)
<DktrKranz> guten abend sebner
<sebner> DktrKranz: thumps up
<geser> Hi sebner
<sebner> aloha geser :)
 * sebner is making a dance. gnome updates \o/
<slytherin> are daily cd builds stopped currently?
<Syntux> Good day
<directhex> does synaptic not use recommends by default?
<slytherin> directhex: it doesn't in hardy. in intrepid it does
<directhex> slytherin, and aptitude does already. is that all of them, then, in intrepid?
<slytherin> yes
<directhex> okay, cheers
 * directhex closes a bug
<okar_> if I start packaging a piece of software(for which I already filed a bug) and I am not part of the MOTU team, shall I assign this bug to me anyway?
<slytherin> okar_: yes, once you have packaged it and uploaded to revu you can unassign it.
<okar_> ok thank you
<CarlFK> what is the diff flags that should be used for creating patches?
<huats> does anyone has created an intrepid chroot lately ?
<huats> I cannot :(
<laga> i did it today
<huats> laga: did you have no pb ?
<huats> I have some with exim :(
<laga> if by "pb" you mean "problems", then no
<huats> oups
<huats> srry
<huats> yep :)
<directhex> with exim? ubuntu doesn't install exim by default does it?
<laga> in fact, i did it one hour ago or so
<huats> I mean problem
<directhex> iirc it's nullmailer?
<huats> :)
<huats> humw
<huats> weird
<huats> I'll check again
<huats> laga: can you give me the url you followed (if you followed something ?)
<laga> mkdir intrepid; sudo debootstrap intrepid intrepid
<huats> laga:  that is what I did...
<huats> I'll do it again right now...
<directhex> i wonder if my new office laptop will boot ubuntu
#ubuntu-motu 2008-09-23
<dholbach> good morning
<crimsun> hullo
<nxvl> dholbach: hi!
<dholbach> hi crimsun, hi nxvl!
 * dholbach hugs y'all
<nxvl> dholbach: we don't have a MOTU/TODO with a list of bugs anymore, do we?
<dholbach> nxvl:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO/Bugs ?
<nxvl> dholbach: yup, but we use to have a table in there with some bugs listed
<dholbach> ahhhh right... the "Weekly Bugs"
<dholbach> that was just 10 bitesize and 10 packaging bugs picked randomly
<nxvl> yup
<dholbach> I used to update it every week but there was not a lot of excitement about it
<nxvl> exactly those
<dholbach> and especially with harvest now it makes even less sense for me to update it every week
<nxvl> :D
<nxvl> just checking
<nxvl> dholbach: btw, wouldn't it be nice to at least link harvest from ubuntuwire?
<dholbach> nxvl: yeah, sure - I just don't have editing powers there :)
<dholbach> the more links to harvest, the better
<nxvl> :D
<ajmitch> wgrant would be able to change ubuntuwire for you
 * ajmitch doesn't have a checkout of the branch handy
<j-b> jdong: you are going to kill me
<wgrant> dholbach, nxvl: It seems to already be on http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/. I don't recall who added it, but it has been there for ~1.5 months
<dholbach> rock and roll
<dholbach> thanks wgrant!
<wgrant> np
 * wgrant returns to work.
<wgrant> It might want to be renamed on that page; please ask if you feel the same.
<dholbach> maybe "Harvest - Aggregated package opportunities"?
<wgrant> dholbach: Done.
<dholbach> the unstoppable wgrant!
<dholbach> gracias!
<wgrant> Unstoppable except for damn uni work, sure.
<crimsun> I miss uni work.
<wgrant> crimsun: But you're crimsun.
<j-b> siretart: ping
<siretart> j-b: in 30 mins. on the way to work
<j-b> siretart: just to tell you we are going to tag VLC 0.9.3 tomorrow or the following day
<j-b> to fix bugs
<iulian> Good morning.
<siretart> j-b: now I'm back!
<siretart> j-b: ah, do you have a link with a changelog mentioning the fixed bugs?
<j-b> siretart: yes, I do
<j-b> siretart: bigger is DTS-channel fix
<j-b> http://git.videolan.org/?p=vlc.git;a=blob;f=NEWS;h=221e1dd6e80549c04762ade78ad38ae28c76f031;hb=0.9-bugfix
<j-b> siretart: so, for linux port, it means a few crashes fixes, DTS 5.1 channel order, pausing subtitles and MMS behaviour regression fix
<didrocks> dholbach: is there a way/futur implementation on harvest to only see a subset of packages for preferences to the team? norsetto's work, for instance, did a very good for the desktop team: http://www.webalice.it/norsetto/
<dholbach> didrocks: team stuff is in progress, until then you can use URLs like http://daniel.holba.ch/harvest/handler.py?pkg=audacity,avahi,pulseaudio
<dholbach> using the script in https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2008-August/026027.html helps too :)
<didrocks> dholbach: great, thanks :)
 * didrocks hugs dholbach 
<dholbach> de rien
<el_ave> hi
<el_ave> i'm trying to play with making packages in ubuntu using pbuilder
<el_ave> but for some reason  dh_shlibdeps doesn't pick-up the deps
<RAOF> I presume that you've actually got a ${shlibs:deps} in your package's Depends: field?
<el_ave> yep
<el_ave> here is part of logs
<el_ave> dh_installdeb
<el_ave> dh_shlibdeps
<el_ave> dh_gencontrol
<el_ave> dpkg-gencontrol: warning: unknown substitution variable ${shlibs:Depends}
<RAOF> Are there actually shared library dependencies involved?  That seems somewhat odd.
<el_ave> i'm trying to modify an exisiting package, the initial package builds fine, the only things i
<el_ave> have changed so far are the names of the package
<RAOF> Does the unmodified package also exhibit that warning?
<el_ave> nope, it seems to pick up the deps just fine
<RAOF> Oh.  You changed the package name; did you also change the install files (if any)?
<RAOF> I'd _guess_ that you're now building an empty package, and so there aren't any shlibdeps.
<el_ave> i see
<el_ave> it look like the code gets compiled, but i guess you mean the install scripts don't copy it to proper place for a package to be made?
<directhex> .install files.
<directhex> Projects/pkg-cli-apps/packages/smuxi/trunk/debian/smuxi-frontend.install
<RAOF> Right.  The general flow of a multi-binary package build is "upstream build" -> "upstream install to $(CURDIR)/debian/tmp" -> "dh_install moves files from tmp to debian/$(PKGONE) debian/$(PKGTWO), etc"
<RAOF> Then, run the rest of the build process on the contents of debian/$PKGONE, debian/$PKGTWO, etc.
<RAOF> So, if the package you touched has a mypackage.install file, and you changed the name from mypackage to yourpackage, dh_install will no longer pick up mypackage.install, and won't move things into the right place.
<el_ave> thank you! let me digg into it a little more :)
<directhex> RAOF, was f-spot still hanging on exit, as far as you know?
<RAOF> directhex: Not that I've noticed, but I don't fire up f-spot very often.
 * directhex is going postal on mono bugs on lp
<RAOF> Seems to quit cleanly.
<directhex> hm, apparently problems persist on hardy
<directhex> silly 1.2.6
<james_w> does anyone have any tips about how to diagnose this? http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17859568/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-lpia.libcairo-ruby_1.5.1-1%2Blenny1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<james_w> ruby1.9 won't install as rdoc1.9 isn't going to be installed
<geser> james_w: get a lpia chroot and check why rdoc1.9 can't get intalled, you might need to do this recursively
<slytherin> please keep a watch on bug #272866. Once it is done, you can proceed with moving aspectwerkz2 to universe. I believe you already have a bug logged for that.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 272866 in javassist "Please move package to universe" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/272866
<_ruben> is a Releases file mandatory in a local apt mirror? my dput/mini-dinstall generated local repo doesnt have it, and apt doesnt seem to see the packages in it :/
<directhex> i use one.
<slytherin> _ruben: yes it is mandatory.
<slytherin> james_w: ruby1.9 has failed to build on lpia
<slytherin> james_w: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/ruby1.9/+builds
<_ruben> slytherin: figured as much .. probably related to the "has no (source|binary) override entry" ?
<_ruben> which rings a vague bell .. but dont recall the details :)
<directhex> _ruben, want an ultra-simple release file?
<directhex> _ruben, use 'apt-ftparchive release' - but you need some hand-crafted preamble before the output from that command
<_ruben> directhex: i'd expect it to be created for me .. or that a false assumption? .. there no mention of it on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto#Building%20With%20Local%20Packages
<directhex> _ruben, i'm afraid i've never used mini-dinstall
<_ruben> any clues wrt the "has no (source|binary) override entry" ? .. it sounds familiar, probably ran into smth similar years ago when i did some packaging when we used debian
<_ruben> aparently the Release file isnt really required for local usage .. i used the wrong the .changes file with dput (it only "uploaded" the source, not the binary)
<_ruben> great .. just got a request to provide a (virtual) server with php4 :/
<slytherin> _ruben: You are not supposed to upload binary.
<slytherin> _ruben: and if you say it is a mirror then why are you uploading packages manually?
<_ruben> slytherin: its stuff im packaging for internal use .. and this "mirror" is on the build system .. to fullfill package dependencies between our own stuff
<Laibsch> Hi there
<Laibsch> I'm Debian maintainer for the gourmet package (I think that is the best way to contribute packages to ubuntu, I don't even run debian)
<Laibsch> recently, because of an invalid bug report, somebody added a false dependency on python-metakit
<Laibsch> This package does not even exist past gutsy
<Laibsch> Can somebody please remove that dependency and upload a new package?
<Laibsch> bug 269963 for details
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 269963 in network-manager "[intrepid] network-manager should recommend or suggest dnsmasq" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/269963
<Laibsch> sorry, wrong number apparently
<Laibsch> bug 269936
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 269936 in gourmet "lacks dependency on metakit" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/269936
<directhex> Laibsch, absolutely the best way to 'contribute to ubuntu' is by being the best debian packager you can - ubuntu should be shipping bug fixes etc your way, not the other way round (in most cases)
<directhex> Laibsch, depending on a dead package is indeed broken
<Laibsch> directhex: exactly
<Laibsch> IF the dependency was indeed missing, I'd add it in a flash and be full of shame for forgetting it
<Laibsch> But that just ain't true
<directhex> let me try the debian package as-is
<directhex> unfortunately there's no way to revert the package right now to what we call syncing (just using diff.gz unmodified from debian) as the version in ubuntu is 'newer'
<directhex> right, fine, installed, works, where was the problem?
<james_w> it can be uploaded with the change reverted though, that's no problem
<directhex> yeah, like james_w said, we can do a ubuntu2 version
<directhex> to replace the broken ubuntu1
<directhex> james_w, whose approval do i need to get that into intrepid before release if i prep a debdiff?
<james_w> directhex: no-one at the moment
<james_w> directhex: you just need a sponsor
<directhex> nobody sponsors me. they go & hide when i appear
<james_w> if you prepare a diff and put a link here I'm sure someone will sponsor it
<james_w> though using a bug at this point is probably a good idea with the freeze in effect
<james_w> you can still ask on here though
<directhex> Laibsch, just revert the python-metakit binary depends:, yes?
<Laibsch> yes
<Laibsch> The other change from that commit seems to be correct for ubuntu
<Laibsch> although I wouldn't mind being listed as maintainer
<james_w> directhex: yeah, I think so, might as well leave the maintainer field change
<Laibsch> As I said, I use ubuntu myself as my main system
<directhex> Laibsch, it's normal to set the Mainteiner: to the motu thing. yeah, i know i know.
<james_w> Laibsch: that's cool, but it's easier to not have exceptions to that rule, as it would be a headache.
<directhex> Successfully signed dsc and changes files
<Laibsch> I'm familiar with how debian and sponsoring works
<Laibsch> but I think the ubuntu process changed recently
<Laibsch> or is it still tauware.de?
<directhex> jms@osc-franzibald:/tmp$ diffstat gourmet_0.14.0-1ubuntu1-to-0.14.0-1ubuntu2.debdiff
<directhex>  changelog |    6 ++++++
<directhex>  control   |    2 +-
<directhex>  2 files changed, 7 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-)
<Lutin> am I missing something, or should "dpkg-buildpackage: set LDFLAGS to default value: -Wl,-Bsymbolic-functions" should be rather set to -Bsymbolic-functions ?
<Lutin> as ld doesn't understand -Wl (assuming that LDFLAGS are to be passed to ld, that is)
<dholbach> directhex: I just replied to bug 269936
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 269936 in gourmet "Broken dependency on metakit" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/269936
<james_w> Lutin: LDFLAGS should go to cc I believe
<directhex> dholbach, the app starts fine for me, without metakit
<dholbach> directhex: there might still be an issue that the reporter is seeing
<Lutin> james_w: well apparently, that's not how some autofoo/configure does it then (http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17423602/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-i386.steam_2.2.31-4.2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz for example)
<dholbach> directhex: it's necessary we revert the addition of the depends, but we can't be sure that it fixes the issue
<directhex> dholbach, it fixes that particular bug, which was just saying "this package should depend on that package" (it shouldn't). he has a separate bug about the app failing to start (for him), and i wonder how much of that comes from his mix of every ubuntu release ever in sources.list
<dholbach> directhex: I'd prefer to find out before we simply close the bug, but still it's necessary to revert it
<directhex> i'll revise the debdiff then
<dholbach> directhex: apart from that, it should have been (LP: #<...>) (with the "#")
<dholbach> directhex: thanks a lot
<dholbach> I'm subscribed so I'll upload it in a bit
<Lutin> james_w: and there at least a couple others in the FTBFS list, iirc. anyway, seems there are people out there using ld $(LDFLAGS), and I was wondering how to deal with it
<dholbach> directhex: and the diffstat shouldn't be necessary - just the patch would be swell
<directhex> dholbach, i try to be complete when requesting sponsorship. not that it's helped the plight of monodoc
<dholbach> directhex: gracias
<dholbach> slomo: do you think you have a bit of time to look at bug 256853 and see if it's OK?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 256853 in monodoc "[FFe][merge request] Please merge monodoc 1.9-2 from Debian Unstable" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/256853
 * dholbach has no clue about mono stuff at all
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<Hobbsee> heya sistpoty|work!
<sistpoty|work> hi Hobbsee
<dholbach> directhex: uploaded - thanks a bunch
 * directhex counts it as a favour, will come a'callin' in future ;)
<dholbach> directhex: favour that I checked and uploaded the fix? no problem ;-)
<directhex> yeah, because nothing is important to me like python recipe manager apps
 * directhex tries it in ironpython \o/
<Laibsch> it's actually a really nice thing to have
<Laibsch> for those food lovers among us
<directhex> aw, it'd need porting
<Laibsch> ;-)
<directhex> Laibsch, i can't work out how to make it work
<jdong> directhex: to ironpython?
<Laibsch> what is ironpython?
<jdong> directhex: have you tried including all the site-packages? :D
<Laibsch> Some python torture tool?
<jdong> Laibsch: it's a .NET/CLR implementation of Python
<directhex> jdong, what's the command-line voodoo?
<jdong> directhex: what does the python app bork on?
<directhex> jdong, you sound clued up. you can't sponsor stuff in main can you?
<jdong> directhex: fortunately, no :)
<directhex> ImportError: No module named os.path
<Laibsch> directhex: Are you generically interested in getting it to work or are you just stating you can't understand its UI (which could see a lot of improvement, I agree)
<directhex> Laibsch, i don't really understand how to get ingredients into it, to make a new recipe
<Laibsch> We can chat privately if you are interested
<jdong> directhex: ah, you can't import dot stuff in ironpython
<jdong> directhex: i.e. importing os makes os.path accessible, but importing os.path itself seems to be illegal syntax
<directhex> Laibsch, i doubt i have the energy. unless it has a special mode for mixing cocktails! \o/
<jdong> directhex: actually... it works here
<jdong> WTF?
<jdong> directhex: /usr/lib/ironpython/Lib/site.py
<jdong> have fun tweaking that to your python site-packages dir :)
<directhex> jdong, i don't even *like* python! i just like there being multiple CLR languages to choose from
<jdong> directhex: CLR is quite neat
<jdong> I like python right now because it's a dynamic language that makes development simple
<jdong> though C# is also getting very close to there with Miguel's dynamic C# shell work
<jdong> can't wait for someone to hack that to the point that you can just run a .cs file with it
<directhex> that'll obviously get packaged up once there's a released tarball, and after the Mono20Transition is complete debian-side
<james_w> LucidFox: I'm not quite sure what the correct fix is. It may be possible to make it call gcc instead of ld.
<LucidFox> correct fix for what?
<james_w> bobbo: hey, you around?
<james_w> LucidFox: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17423602/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-i386.steam_2.2.31-4.2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz <- ld $(LDFLAGS) being called by the build
<LucidFox> james_w> What does this have to do with me?
<LucidFox> I don't even know what this package is
<james_w> LucidFox: ah, sorry, I meant Lutin
<geser> james_w: I usually export LDFLAGS similar to the default LDFLAGS but without the -Wl, in debian/rules
<james_w> Lutin: ^
<sistpoty|work> hi bddebian
<Laibsch> james_w: Looks like you were right on the money, there is an old auto-closed bug in the sf.net tracker for gourmet that has the exact strange error message from the other bug report when somebody upgraded from <0.10 to 0.12.  That "you-ship-broken-software" guy hasn't update for three years at least.
<geser> A bddebian!
<bddebian> Hi folks
<bddebian> Hi sistpoty|work, geser
<james_w> Laibsch: the encoding error?
<Laibsch> yes
<Laibsch> which might be another bug
<directhex> i wonder if he's even dist-upgraded after changing his sources.list
<Laibsch> because the error about encoding problems is incorrect
<Laibsch> directhex: he says he did
<arvind_khadri> hi, for packaging do i need to follow the debian manual?
<james_w> Laibsch: I can see the characters that it is probably complaining about, but I don't know why it doesn't complain for anyone else
<Laibsch> james_w: because they are declared
<Laibsch> or at least that is what I think why it works
<directhex> arvind_khadri, yeah, pretty much, but there are more user-friendly guides on the ubuntu wiki
<arvind_khadri> directhex, the things remain the same right ?? :)
<directhex> arvind_khadri, yes, ish. there are some tiny differences to bear in mind if you're packaging software for ubuntu main
<directhex> arvind_khadri, generally speaking though, the best way to get an app into ubuntu is by getting it into debian first
<arvind_khadri> directhex, i want to create a .deb from a tarball  basically and as of now i want to make it work in ubuntu
<directhex> arvind_khadri, a well-written source package will compile on either distro (usually) ;)
<arvind_khadri> directhex, :) ok so shall i go ahead with the debian manual?
<directhex> yes
<arvind_khadri> directhex, thanks
<arvind_khadri> directhex, the package has been written for fedora btw ...
<arvind_khadri> directhex, can i convert it into a .deb?
<directhex> arvind_khadri, don't. those conversions are very dangerous to users' systems
<arvind_khadri> directhex, ok so if i want to make that particular package be made as a .deb what shall i do?
<directhex> arvind_khadri, just follow the debian packaging guide. use the fedora specfile as a reference only for things like the ./configure flags and so on, but generate a clean debian/rules file
<directhex> arvind_khadri, in theory, dh_make is a tool to make a skeleton package automatically - but verify the output!
<arvind_khadri> directhex, hmm
<slytherin> arvind_khadri: which package are you talking about?
<bobbo> james_w: pong
<james_w> hey bobbo
<bobbo> hey :)
<james_w> bobbo: did you see Colin's comments on the bzr bug?
<bobbo> james_w: yeah, I have a freeze exception for 1.6.1?
<james_w> bobbo: I haven't done one for main yet this cycle, so I'm not up to speed on the process, but you have an ACK from one RM at least
<bobbo> james_w: cool, I'll look it up but i'm guessing either thats it or i'll only need one more (havent touched main for ages either)
<james_w> bobbo: yeah, they were my thoughts too. Are you happy with going to 1.6.1?
<bobbo> james_w: yeah it seems to make most sense at the moment as 1.7rc2 hasnt been released yet so it could be a while...
<bobbo> and im guessing the longer the release cycle, the more stuff gets changed which means less chance of it getting accepted by -release
<james_w> well once rc1 is out only a few things trickle in
<james_w> I think 1.7 may be today or tomorrow
<james_w> or is it 1.7rc2, I don't remember.
<bobbo> james_w: ah didnt know that..i'll have a look and decide soonish but im still leaning towards doing 1.6.1 tbh
<james_w> bobbo: I suggest we sync 1.6.1 from Debian after getting the exception, and then cherry pick those important fixes, what do you think?
<bobbo> james_w: yeah, makes sense to me, I'll have a look at it in a bit (got some homework to do now). Thanks for your help!
<Laibsch> coming back to gourmet, if I may.  The bug report is really a wishlist request to support importation from metakit based recipe collections
<Laibsch> Given the fact that the last metakit version of gourmet is about three years old and the apparently sorry state of metakit in general, my motivation to support the switching over from metakit-based recipe collections borders on 0.
<james_w> bobbo: great, thanks. Give me a shout if I can help with anything.
<james_w> bobbo: and Thursday is Beta freeze, so getting it in before then would be a good idea I think
<bobbo> james_w: ok, i'll try to get as much of it as possible done by tonight
<Laibsch> Should I leave the bug report open or set it to wontfix.  I guess the one to fix packaging would be me and I don't feel like doing it -> wontfix in that sense.  I won't prevent anyone else from supplying a patch, of course, this is not a conscious choice not to fix things -> not quite wontfix
<Laibsch> wontfix or leave open?
<azeem> I'd think wontfix mostly applies if you think it's NOTABUG or something, but the submitter disagrees; or have otherwise technical reservations against fixing it
<james_w> Laibsch: if Luis confirmed my suspicion I was going to suggest transforming the bug to be "fail more gracefully when metakit isn't available and the user has a metakit based database to import"
<james_w> Laibsch: then there could be a second request to re-instate metakit in Ubuntu to allow these people to import.
<Laibsch> Well, it seems importation can be done
<Laibsch> I collected that information but apparently did not write it here
<Laibsch> Let me pastebin it
<Laibsch> http://rafb.net/p/YBfPnO87.html
<Laibsch> We could fail more gracefully and that would be easy enough to do
<Laibsch> Agreed
<Lutin> geser: sounds sane, thanks :) (re: LDFLAGS)
<Riddell> Adri2000: ping
<Riddell> bug 127496 you uploaded to hardy-proposed?  it needs a debdiff on the bug and approval by motu-sru
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 127496 in ngircd "ngircd will not uninstall or update" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/127496
<sistpoty|work> Riddell: just from a glance, maybe the sru is at bug #85266?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 85266 in ngircd "ngircd refuses to start automatically through sysv init" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/85266
<Riddell> sistpoty|work: mm, seems to be yes, how confusing
 * sistpoty|work decides to head home. cya
<saivann> siretart : If you have time, can you review and upload debdiff in bug 269725 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 269725 in gnucash "gnucash: Obscuring windows after getting transactions with HBCI." [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/269725
<jdong> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ffmpeg-debian/+bug/93849/comments/16
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 93849 in ffmpeg-debian "ffmpeg does not have AMR audio support" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<jdong> grumble.
<jdong> now, how do we configure comment blocking in launchpad?
<jdong> this is the only good use of the digg style thumbs-up thumbs-down voting
<directhex> jdong, FIX MY BUG OR I'LL SWITCH TO YGGDRASIL LINUX INSTEAD!
<jdong> directhex: more like fix my bug or I will write a pointless update and ping everyone on motumedia every week.
<directhex> jdong, could be worse. i hear some relentless jackasses sit on IRC and insist 'merge my package or i'll spam you on irc'!
<jdong> directhex: oh I've already stopped paying attention to IRC pings from unknown people
<jdong> directhex: this is aggravating because I try to keep up on all my bugmail because I usually only subscribe to stuff I need to act upon
<directhex> jdong, i'm not spamming you, you're not a core-dev. not worth it ;)
<jdong> and it certainly doesn't help that I have to open up that e-mail chain once every 3 days to see that he posted a survey or questionnaire about the bug.
<Adri2000> Riddell: pong, yes sorry, I didn't make everything clear in the changelog. actually this .2 upload fixes a bug discovered during .1's testing in -proposed, so I just continued the sru process on the same bug. thanks for accepting the upload though
<fabrice_sp> Hi. Can someone review, and ack if correct, my debdiff for bug #272263? Thanks
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 272263 in icedove-dispmua "icedove-dispmua: Package has a Depends on icedove (<= 2.0.0.99) which cannot be satisfied in Intrepid" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/272263
 * directhex is sad, his new work laptop is gonna be too new for intrepid
<NCommander> soren, ping
#ubuntu-motu 2008-09-24
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Good morning Daniel.
<dholbach> hiya iulian
<geser> Guten Morgen dholbach
<dholbach> hi geser :)
<torkel> geser: any new comments on bug 264303? As it is not a new upstream version a FFe shouldn't be needed, right? Or would you still prefer to patch -3 over a sync?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 264303 in openafs "Please sync openafs (1.4.7.dfsg1-6) from debian" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/264303
<geser> torkel: no, a ffe is not needed, and with the changes in -6 it's worth syncing. thanks for letting my know.
<torkel> geser: thanks. :-)
<Hobbsee> !ffe
<ubottu> uvf is Upstream Version Freeze.  For an exception, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess#head-9523bc4076ff011324d67cddc97969ec609618d6
<Hobbsee> hm, microreleases aren't documented there.
<rulus> pereira@193.142.125.1] has joined
<rulus> roreleases aren't documented there.
<rulus> oops, sorry
<siretart> any ~motu-release members around? Could you please have a look at the vlc 0.9.2 exception request now that beta freeze is approaching? TIA!
<Koon> slangasek: you accepted cim-schema source in multiverse a few weeks ago, but for some reason the resulting binary package appears in universe. bug ?
<Koon> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/i386/cim-schema/2.18.1-0ubuntu1
<slangasek> Koon: bug or oversight; from this distance it's hard to tell
<slangasek> Koon: I accepted the source though, someone else would have accepted the binary (and set the section), I think
<slangasek> changed now
<Koon> slangasek: great ;)
<Koon> slangasek: fyi, I'm trying to push some licensing clarification upstream
<slangasek> that should prove interesting :-)
<siretart> slangasek: re your mlt rebuild: it currently FTBFS, see the lp report about that
<willem-toorop> Hi MOTU's! Would anytwo of you care for reviewing my Tetris for Terminals (tt) package?
<raphink> willem-toorop: I'm using konversation
<raphink> :p
<raphink> hi nxvl
<Adri2000> no one has any pending change for u-d-t? (I'm going to upload in some minutes)
<Adri2000> jpds: around?
<Adri2000> I recall some discussion in this channel about the versioning of u-d-t, but was any kind of decision made?
<Adri2000> imo we should return to simple native versioning, without the ubuntu1 bit
<geser> yes, that's what I proposed but someone told me that lintian will complain or something like that
<broonie> lintian does get it wrong sometimes.
<Adri2000> yeah, I don't think that is a very good reason :p
<Adri2000> lintian should be fixed to not complain about the missing "ubuntu" bit in the version, if the package is not in debian
<Adri2000> so I'll go without ubuntu1, and if indeed lintian complains, will file a bug
<Adri2000>   ubuntu-dev-tools_0.45_source.changes: done.
<Adri2000> and bug #273997
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 273997 in lintian "Incorrectly reports an Ubuntu native package as nmu" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/273997
<ThorstenSick> Hello
<ThorstenSick> Can anyone help me creating a patch for meld ?
<ThorstenSick> I am new to packaging and can not identify the patch system (if there is any)
<azeem> is there a debian/patches directory?
<jpds> Adri2000: Pong?
<ThorstenSick> Yes, there is, but files in there seem not to be included in a build
<ThorstenSick> At least the patch was not effective
<azeem> ThorstenSick: inspect the Build-Depends in debian/control.  Does it include either dpatch or quilt?
<Adri2000> jpds: was about u-d-t's versioning, I finally uploaded as 0.45, and filed a bug for lintian's false positives
<ThorstenSick> It depends on "patch"
<azeem> ThorstenSick: then inspect debian/rules for a "patch" target or similar; it looks like a hand-written patch system then
<jpds> Adri2000: re: any u-d-t work - not at the moment - I do not have my own computer anymore, so I have limited net time.
<azeem> if so, the list of patches to apply might be hardcoded somewhere in debian/rules
<ThorstenSick> include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/simple-patchsys.mk
<azeem> that's from CDBS
<azeem> so what do you mean with "files in there seem not to be included in a build"
<Adri2000> jpds: ok np, just wanted to ask you because that versioning was started in one of your uploads
<ThorstenSick> I am trying to learn from th devweek/fixingbugs
<azeem> I understand
<azeem> I don't understand the above in the context of cdbs though
<jpds> Adri2000: RainCT was complaining about NMU lintian errors (or something).
<Adri2000> ThorstenSick: when you don't know the patch system used by a package, you can use the what-patch utility from ubuntu-dev-tools, even though it may not know or be wrong
<ThorstenSick> azeem:A patch dropped in the patch dir did not fix the biug
<ThorstenSick> cool
<azeem> ThorstenSick: inspect the build log and make sure the patch got applied during bulid
<azeem> ThorstenSick: did you create a new source package?  How did you test-build it?
<Adri2000> jpds: yeah, that's what I recalled from a discussion here. I filed bug #273997 for that
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 273997 in lintian "Incorrectly reports an Ubuntu native package as nmu" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/273997
<ThorstenSick> pbuilder
<jpds> Adri2000: Great, thanks.
<ThorstenSick> It was yesterday, ...tracking back...
<Adri2000> TheMuso: mpd is failing in intrepid with "E: client-conf-x11.c: XOpenDisplay() failed". according to mpd's wiki, it's something wrong with pulseaudio. do you have any idea of what could be the problem?
<Adri2000> TheMuso: bug #273721, #273586, http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/PulseAudio
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 273721 in mpd "Segmentation fault when starting mpd" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/273721
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 273586 in mpd "package mpd 0.13.2-1ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 139" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/273586
<TheMuso> Adri2000: I'll have a look tomorrow, unfortunately I don't have time right now. Off the top of my head I have no idea so I'll have to dig and have a play myself.
<Adri2000> TheMuso: okay, thanks
<ThorstenSick> azeem: I think yesterday the filename was missing a .patch. At least the log looks a lot better with ".patch" attached.
<azeem> hrm, could be
<slangasek> siretart: why, so it does :/
<ThorstenSick> azeem: It works ! Now just add the debdiff as an attachment to the bug ?
<azeem> ThorstenSick: I'm not sure what you are trying to do and no expert in that kind of stuff, better ask the whole channel
<ThorstenSick> I just created my first debdiff. The bug is LP #203033. What to do now ? Attach it to the bug and wait for someone to review it ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 203033 in meld "html not escaped in search" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/203033
<ThorstenSick> Is a motu here who can please review my patch for LP #203033
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 203033 in meld "html not escaped in search" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/203033
<ThorstenSick> ?
<james_w> ThorstenSick: you should break your changelog line before 80 chars, but otherwise it looks good
<james_w> what patch system is in use?
<ThorstenSick> james_w: cdbs
<james_w> cdbs-simple-patchsys?
<james_w> then your change looks fine to me
<james_w> ThorstenSick: please subscribe the sponsors team
<james_w> "Subscribe someone else" -> ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<ThorstenSick> james_w: what-patch just says cdbs. this is myfirst debdiff...
<ThorstenSick> james_w: done...and they will review it ?
<james_w> yeah, someone will look at it in the next few days and either ask you to change something, reject it, or upload it.
<ThorstenSick> Thanks.
<ThorstenSick> CU
<slangasek> siretart: mlt fix uploaded
<NCommander> soren, good morning
<soren> It's 6 PM!
<sebner> soren: \o/ - Same timezone :D
<NCommander> soren, ok, good evening
<NCommander> soren, any issues beside the -dev one with the Xfce 4.6 packages?
<soren> NCommander: It seems the meta key was redefined..
<soren> NCommander: Sorry, i'm on a phone call right now.
<NCommander> soren, Oh, sorry. I can't reproduce that one (without lack of trying when you told me about it)
<NCommander> soren, what keyboard layout do you use :-)
<soren> Danish.
<liw> I guess he's using the Danish one
<NCommander> soren, I'll report a bug on the Xfce bug tracker that the meta key has been redefined (to what specifically?)
<iulian> Hi
<liw> would someone be willing to sponsor an upload of system-cleaner for me, from REVU? (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=system-cleaner); compared to the version in intrepid already, it fixes two bugs
<liw> release team (pitti) and doc team have said they're ok with the upload
<siretart> any ~motu-release members around? Could you please have a look at the vlc 0.9.2 exception request now that beta freeze is approaching? TIA!
 * jdong adds to the mounting pressure too :)
<jdong> DktrKranz: you're on ~motu-release right? ~motumedia would really like the VLC 0.9.2 FFe to be evaluated prior to betafreeze
<DktrKranz> jdong, yes.
<DktrKranz> I'll have a look at it in some minutes
<jdong> thank you very much
<jdong> (bug 270404 for reference)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 270404 in vlc "Please update VLC to 0.9.2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/270404
<siretart> DktrKranz: thanks for your vote on vlc. how many further votes do we need?
<DktrKranz> siretart, two motu-release ACKs. If I read it correctly, mine is first, so you need another one
<siretart> ah
<k0p> hi
<k0p> I have a patch in queue... someone can apply?
<crimsun> k0p: bug #?
<k0p> #264750
<k0p> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/umit/+bug/264750
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 264750 in umit "umit higwidgets conflits" [Undecided,New]
<k0p> wow
<k0p> #264750
<k0p> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/umit/+bug/264750
<k0p> hmm bot doesn't awser :(
<crimsun> k0p: is it intentional that debian/patches/{root,setup}.patch are also touched but are not mentioned in debian/changelog?
<fabrice_sp> Hi. Can someone review my debdiff in Bug #272263 and upload if correct? Thanks
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 272263 in icedove-dispmua "icedove-dispmua: Package has a Depends on icedove (<= 2.0.0.99) which cannot be satisfied in Intrepid" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/272263
<crimsun> fabrice_sp: looking in a sec.
<fabrice_sp> great! tks crimsun
<crimsun> fabrice_sp: I can't upload (anymore), but I'll certainly review the diff
<k0p> crimsun, did you see last patch?
<k0p> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17309092/higwidgets_issue-update.patch
<fabrice_sp> crimsun: ok. better than nothing ;-)
<crimsun> k0p: that's the one I applied prior to reviewing
<crimsun> k0p: ah, I see.  The references are there.
<k0p> yeah
<k0p> I update because I forget update changelog
<k0p> updated*
<crimsun> k0p: looks fine (just trivial whitespace matters in the changelog, but relatively unimportant)
<k0p> do you want a update again?
<k0p> I can do that but I didn't see whitespace. How people detect it? Many people from motus detects whitespace.. I forget take care with it
<crimsun> k0p: I suggest updating the debdiff, but that's really up to whomever uploads
<crimsun> fabrice_sp: looks good.  has asac looked at it, too?
<fabrice_sp> crimsun: asac put a comment in the bug report, but I don't think he had a look at the debdiff
<k0p> crimsun, where did you see whitespace?
<fabrice_sp> (I requested also review in ubuntu-mozillateam, but get no answer...)
<crimsun> k0p: the topmost (most recent) debian/changelog entry
<k0p> hmm
<crimsun> k0p: mostly alignment issues; see your bottommost (first) debian/changelog entry for the asterisk
<crimsun> (indentation, really)
<k0p> :\
<fabrice_sp> crimsun: I think that they had already a lot of work with this firefox 3.0 stuff, and too busy to review my debdiff
<fabrice_sp> (they = mozillateam)
<crimsun> fabrice_sp: (right, I'm also there)
<crimsun> fabrice_sp: perhaps wait a day or so; the u-u-s queue is processed consistently
<k0p> crimsun, I didn' see mistakes on identation
<crimsun> k0p: notice how both "- fixed ..." lines are placed closer to the leading edge (on a left-to-right orientation) than their parents
<k0p> grr
<k0p> yeah
<k0p> but not in my vi
<crimsun> yeah, I unset tabs and such when I review patches
<fabrice_sp> crimsun: Won't the beta freeze affect the upload of non 'high' importance bug?
<crimsun> fabrice_sp: UTC isn't quite at betafreeze yet
<fabrice_sp> crimsun: I must have mixed date, then. Thanks
<crimsun> fabrice_sp: well, betafreeze is "tomorrow" for me (currently only 1544 localtime)
<k0p> crimsun, updated
<crimsun> k0p: fair enough
<crimsun> k0p: thanks, someone from u-u-s will look
<k0p> u-u-s? universe?
<geser> ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<k0p> fine :)
<k0p> crimsun, btw I was waiting for it some weeks ago..
<fabrice_sp> crimsun: It's also tomorrow for me too (21:48 here :-) )
<k0p> I was thinking if I shoud annouce it in somewhere
<crimsun> k0p: sorry, but I can't help speed it along.  Just try to sit a while; the sponsors generally are overworked, too.  :-)
<crimsun> (that said, lag time normally isn't too long)
<k0p> ok :)
<k0p> thanks
<geser> fabrice_sp: I've just looked at your icedove-dispmua debdiff and it looks ok (on a first glance). Will try to look at it later and upload.
<sebner> ahoi geser, everything alright? :)
<fabrice_sp> geser: great! Thanks in advance ;-)
<fabrice_sp> Could you also have a look at Bug #257937?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 257937 in ebox-ntp "ebox-ntp depends on ntp-server metapackage, which does not exist" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/257937
<geser> sebner: yes, just busy
<sebner> geser: as usual :) so I won't interrupt your work. hf :)
<geser> fabrice_sp: does ebox-ntp also work with openntpd?
<fabrice_sp> geser: I have to check
<laga> DktrKranz: consider yourself hugged for verifying that mythbuntu-control-centre bug
<DktrKranz> laga, you're welcome
<sebner> laga: joing motu-release and make DktrKranz happy :P
<DktrKranz> sebner, motu-sru maybe
<DktrKranz> and why my shift key doesn't work........
<sebner> DktrKranz: argh, true
<sebner> DktrKranz: strg-alt-backspace is your friend :P
<DktrKranz> sebner, not when doing important stuff that deserves a better end than a kill -9 -1
<sebner> DktrKranz: ^^
<laga> sebner: i'm not a MOTU :)
<sebner> laga: become one!
<laga> yeah, i'm working on that, kinda.
<sebner> laga: \o/
<fabrice_sp> geser: at startup time, this package calls "exec /usr/sbin/ntpd -n -g", and this flags doesn't exists in openntpd, so I would say no, except if we modify the package to use it
<fabrice_sp> (about ebox-ntp package)
<geser> fabrice_sp: thanks for checking
<DktrKranz> sebner, shut up
 * sebner hides
<fabrice_sp> geser: it was an easy one ;-)
<sebner> DktrKranz: Y. R. B. :P
<DktrKranz> sebner, lucky you my shift is broken and i can make uppercase letters...
<sebner> DktrKranz: hrhr, black magic :)
<directhex> is there a written policy anywhere detailing driver backports to LTS releases?
<laga> ah, mono.ko?
<directhex> laga, no, i was more wondering for work
<directhex> laga, not mono-related for once! :o
<NCommander> siretart, ping
<dothebart> hy everyone...
<dothebart> who 'd be the right one to talk to for http://packages.ubuntu.com/intrepid/citadel-server
<dothebart> ?
<dothebart> i'd like to do the pulp fiction tomato joke about that...
<dothebart> catch up ;-)
<bobbo> james_w: ping
<asac> fabrice_sp|away: ?
<nxvl> pochu: ping
<pochu> nxvl: pong
<pochu> nxvl: hi
<nxvl> pochu: Bug #274173
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274173 in ubuntu "Please sync terminator 0.11 from debian sid" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274173
<nxvl> pochu: would you like to help me while i don't have my machine on hands
<pochu> nxvl: cool :)
<pochu> nxvl: sure, what does it need?
<nxvl> pochu: a diffstat
<pochu> nxvl: ok
<pochu> will add that in a second
 * nxvl HUGS pochu 
<nxvl> pochu: on your comment please include "no package depends on it" i forgot to add that comment
<pochu> sure
<nxvl> nellery: hi! how are you doing?
<nellery> nxvl, hi, alright i think
<nxvl> nellery: learning new things everyday?
<pochu> nxvl: done
 * pochu hugs nxvl back :)
<nellery> of course ;)
<nxvl> pochu: awesome! thanks, now cross your fingers and pray!
<james_w> hey bobbo
<bobbo> hey james_w
<bobbo> james_w: I saw that bzr 1.7 was released today and you talked about cherrypicking patches from it and adding them to our 1.6.1 package?
<nxvl> james_w: i send you an e-mail, did you got it?
<james_w> hey nxvl, I did, but I forgot to read it today, sorry.
<james_w> nxvl: but in principle I say yes
<james_w> bobbo: I think we should certainly check, but I believe there a couple of important fixes to grab
<bobbo> james_w: cool, is there anything in particular I could be taking a look at?
<james_w> bobbo: just read the NEWS file I guess and look for the things that sound important
<nxvl> james_w: ok, read it, and reply so i can make th announcment :D
<james_w> bobbo: I'll be doing it myself, but it would be good to get a couple of pairs of eyes on it
<james_w> nxvl: will do :-)
<bobbo> james_w: ok, i'll have a look at it tomorrow and see if anything jumps out :)
<james_w> nxvl: looks good to me
<pochu> good night folks
#ubuntu-motu 2008-09-25
<kirkland> persia: hey, i see you uploaded qemu last...  i'm trying to fix a bug  there, but i can even build the current package from source
<kirkland> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17939088/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-amd64.qemu_0.9.1-5ubuntu3_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<kirkland> persia: curious if you're familiar?
<jdong> is a ~motu-release online at this hour? We need a 2nd vote on bug 207404
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 207404 in gnome-panel "Blutooth Stopped Working" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/207404
<jdong> err what the heck? bug 270404
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 270404 in vlc "Please update VLC to 0.9.2" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/270404
 * jdong could care less about 2.4GHz transmitters ;-)
<persia> kirkland: Sorry.  No idea.  I only added lpia as a build target architecture.  I'd suggest soren or IntuitiveNipple as people who might know.
<persia> jdong: I heard j-d was preparing 0.9.3 to fix a couple last-minute bugs.
<jdong> persia: j-g but correct; though I'd hope to get 0.9.2 in by betafreeze for testing
<jdong> 0.9.3 should be simpler to approve on top of 0.9.2
<jdong> err j-b actually
<persia> Oh.  I thought I heard that 0.9.3 was coming out in the next day or two.
<jdong> that is true
<persia> (some voiced consonant, anyway)
<jdong> isn't betafreeze right at the corner though?
<persia> Ah.  Indeed it is.
<j-b> jdong: persia: I have some shitty windows bug to fix before tagging it
<jdong> j-b: those are always fun :)
<j-b> but there will not be any modification for *nix versions
<j-b> jdong: I hate windows
<persia> j-b: There are *nix changes between 0.9.2 and 0.9.3 though, right?
<j-b> persia: yes, minor ones
<j-b> persia: many crashes fix, some subtitles, some interface improvements
<persia> jdong: Perhaps a 0.9.2+vcs... branch, pulling in those?
<persia> s/branch/version/
<j-b> persia: I am tagging 0.9.3 in less than 10hours hopefully
<jdong> j-b: if that's the case then let's wait for it to come out :)
<persia> Oh.  Then it oughtn't matter much.  It's already past midnight UTC on the 25th.
<kirkland> persia: thax
<jdong> that could potentially mean I actually get some homework done
<j-b> jdong: I tagged 0.9.3-rc1
<jdong> j-b: cool; let's wait for final though because you and I know we'll start getting those "ZOMGZ BUT ITZ RC1!!!" bugs if we don't :D
<j-b> jdong: agreed
<davismj> i want to help! omg!
<j-b> jdong: biggest bugs where windows and OSX, though in 0.9.2, as expected
<jdong> understandable
<davismj> help me help you!
<persia> davismj: What do you want to do?
 * Hobbsee advises people about the upcoming closure of UDS sponsorship requests.
<davismj> UDS?
<nhandler> davismj: Ubuntu Developer Summit for Jaunty
<coppro> ok, I have a bug
<coppro> I don
<coppro> *do not maintain the package and don't know the status
<coppro> but how come libmudflap0 is outdated?
<coppro> huh, nvm, it seems to be working now :/
<coppro> oh wait, I see the issue now
 * coppro files bug
<nxvl> finally internet again \o/
<Hobbsee> coppro: bug #?
<coppro> haven't made it yet; trying to decide how to proceed
<RAOF> I don't suppose anyone else has got around to filing rebuild bugs against packages depending on libopenal0a?
<coppro> specifically, what to file against
<Hobbsee> coppro: what's the bug?
<coppro> since I'm pretty sure libmudflap0-dev is redundant
<coppro> and outdated
<coppro> it is in universe, and libmudflap0 is in main and appears to fulfill all the required functionality
<coppro> I'm just verifying that it does
<ajmitch> libmudflap0-4.3-dev, is the package to replace it, perhaps
<ajmitch> both are built from gcc
<coppro> ah, could be, if gcc is still installing 4.1 in intrepid
<coppro> no, gcc is at 4.3, but I'm building find without libmudflap0-dev, so I'm not quite sure what it's required for
<coppro> s/find/fine/
<persia> RAOF: Probably not.  We should rebuild them, as openal-soft fixes *lots* of bugs in openal
<bddebian> Whoa, ajmitch speaketh :)
<RAOF> persia: Right.  Also because it renders them uninstallable, because libopenal0a isn't in the archives anymore.
 * ajmitch shuts up
<persia> Hrm?  That shouldn't have happened unless everything was rebuilt, unless someone's not been following NBS guidelines.
<persia> Plus, the source for libopenal0a is available
<persia> So in the worst case, we could reinstate it, but rebuilding is better.
<wgrant> "(From Debian) Ro Release Team; superceded by openal-soft "
<wgrant> (that's from the binary)
<persia> RAOF: What do you see that depends on libopenal0a?  My apt-cache says nothing.
 * wgrant agrees with persia.
<persia> wgrant: "Removed from Debian" is now also used for *binary* removals?  That's very dangerous, if true.
<wgrant> persia: It might have just inherited it from the source... I hope.
<wgrant> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/i386/libopenal0a
<wgrant> (hooray for being able to see the whole deletion comment now!)
<RAOF> persia: I see python-pyglet, libhugs-openal-bundled, libcoin40c2, and boson as rdepends of libopenal0a
<persia> RAOF: which arch?
 * persia checks other arches
<RAOF> amd64
<wgrant> Ah.
<wgrant> libopenal0a is a Suggests.
<persia> That's the one I checked first.
<wgrant> Er, on libcoin40c2
<wgrant> libhugs-openal-bundled is a Depends, which means something is buggy.
<RAOF> As is boson
<wgrant> This is bad.
<wgrant> RAOF: What does apt-cache rdepends tell you?
<RAOF> "I see python-pyglet, libhugs-openal-bundled, libcoin40c2, and boson as rdepends of libopenal0a"
<persia> I'm confused.  apt-cache rdepends tells me *nothing* for libopenal0a on amd64
<wgrant> You didn't say that was through apt-cache
<wgrant> persia: Same on i386.
<coppro> ok, yeah, I see no purpose for libmudflap0{,-4.3}-dev
<wgrant> In both my normal installation and a chroot.
<RAOF> Oh, and libopenal1, but that's because it Replaces libopenal0a apparently.
<wgrant> apt-cache is buggy somehow.
<wgrant> Maybe the Replaces is interacting badly with something.
<persia> boson 0.13-4build1 FTBFS, which probably explains that one.
<wgrant> Hmm.
<wgrant> Maybe it's because libopenal0a doesn't exist any more.
<wgrant> But RAOF has it installed.
<wgrant> So his apt knows about it, but ours don't...
<wgrant> Seems a bit odd, but would explain it.
<RAOF> Could be it.
<RAOF> wgrant: Oh, while you're here... you've been doing the synaptics xinput work, right?  What info is useful if my System->Preferences->Mouse doesn't include a touchpad tab?
<wgrant> RAOF: Yay! I was hoping for someone like you.
<wgrant> A dev on IRC that has that problem is good news indeed, because no hardware I can find exhibits it.
<wgrant> RAOF: xinput list-props "SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad"
<wgrant> I need to know if it gives you an error, or a big list of properties.
<RAOF> wgrant: BadDevice
<RAOF> (That'd be the error, obviously)
<RAOF> But it appears under "xinput list"
<wgrant> RAOF: Can you pastebin the error and your Xorg log?
<RAOF> Yeah, why not.
<crimsun> \sh: do you have a git/bzr/.. tree for your current ia32-libs work?  I'm trying to preempt a Flash 10 debacle.
<RAOF> wgrant: There'll be a brief haitus while I fix the corruption on my usb stick by reformatting ext3
<wgrant> RAOF: Sure, I'll be here for 10 hours yet...
<RAOF> Hm.  gparted fails at text escaping.
<RAOF> wgrant: Oops, seems my usb stick is toast.  Anyway, have Xorg.0.log http://pastebin.com/f7c7474bd and error http://paste2.org/p/78426
<RAOF> Also, gnome-do + "selected text" + pastebin + "copy to clipboard" = love.
<StevenK> RAOF: Does gnome-do have a pastebin plugin? :-)
<RAOF> StevenK: Totally.
<RAOF> Do is pretty much made of awesome.
<Hobbsee> yay, awesomeness!
<coppro> what is gnome-do?
<RAOF> wgrant: Oh, and http://pastebin.com/f1067f136 is the boring xorg.conf.
<RAOF> coppro: A quicksilver-inspired graphical text interface.
<wgrant> RAOF: Have you tried it with an Alpha 6 live CD to check that it's no config issue? There's nothing obviously wrong...
<RAOF> wgrant: I haven't, no.  It was working previously at some point, though.  I'll give A6 a whirl later.
<wgrant> RAOF: Right, thanks.
<wgrant> RAOF: It probably only worked before I ported g-c-c and g-s-d to use XI properties.
<RAOF> Quite possibly.
<Hobbsee> jdong: when are you going to action http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/13674/ ?
<Hobbsee> no, not that.
<Hobbsee> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vlc/+bug/270404
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 270404 in vlc "Please update VLC to 0.9.2" [Wishlist,New]
<jdong> Hobbsee: well I do like to keep our old devs, but we need a 2nd ACK from -release to do so :)
<Hobbsee> jdong: you got it, i think.
<jdong> Hobbsee: are we reading norsetto's comment as an ACK given superm1's response?
<Hobbsee> jdong: ah, siretart didn't give an ack.  i'd say that's close enough.
<jdong> Hobbsee: siretart is on the release team?
 * Hobbsee waits for LP
<Hobbsee> oh, apparently not.
<jdong> Hobbsee: last time I talked to him he was waiting on a 2nd ack, so... :)
<Hobbsee> jdong: i'd consider norsetto's an ack, as the condition he wanted to not-ack with was proved false.
<jdong> Hobbsee: okay :)
<jdong> siretart: ^^ green light to upload VLC
<NCommander> hey jdong
<fabrice_sp> asac?
<siretart> jdong: Hobbsee: In case I get problems with that upload, I'll blame you! :P
<nxvl> \o/
<Hobbsee> siretart: well, i can ack it too, if you want...
<Hobbsee> siretart: u-r is still a part of m-r
<dholbach> good morning
<nxvl> dholbach: good morning
<Hobbsee> siretart: besides, i get blamed for all sorts of stuff anyway, so, meh :)
<dholbach> hi nxvl
<siretart> Hobbsee: ah, I think that counts pretty well. great, I'm on it
<siretart> hey dholbach! good morning! awake that early?
<dholbach> hiya siretart - yeah Mimi has to get up early a lot, so I'm supportive and get up myself... and I got used to it anyway now :)
<siretart> jdong: Hobbsee: vlc uploaded, will need binary NEW though
<StevenK> siretart: What does it build that will force binary NEW?
<siretart> StevenK: libvlc2
<siretart> instead of libvlc0
<siretart> no reverse depends though
<iulian> Good morning.
<NCommander> dholbach, you around?
<dholbach> NCommander: yes
<NCommander> siretart, the issue with kdebase-runtime was with xine :-)
<RAOF> Damnit!  Why are the nouveau drivers _more_ stable than nvidia's blob?
<Hobbsee> RAOF: because the nvidia blobs are trying to get you to switch back to windows, subliminally?
<didrocks> dholbach: sorry. I was surely tired (let's say that, I fixed the bug #273579)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 273579 in gnome-system-tools "Please sponsor gnome-system-tools 2.22.1 into intrepid" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/273579
<dholbach> didrocks: will take a look at it in a sec
<didrocks> dholbach: thx. I am going now for the second day of "Paris Capitale du Libre" with nijaba and huats. I will be away surely for most of the day (no IRC or ssh connexion from there)
<didrocks> dholbach: and sorry again :)
<dholbach> didrocks: enjoy the show :)
<didrocks> dholbach: thanks!
<siretart> NCommander: yes, sort-of, but agreed
<NCommander> siretart, so no issues with my fix?
<dholbach> didrocks: there's a 98_automake.patch.new in there - is that needed?
<dothebart> who's responsible for loading packages from lenny?
<dholbach> dothebart: can you elaborate? I'm not sure I understand
<dothebart> http://packages.ubuntu.com/intrepid/citadel-server
<dothebart> that one ;)
<dholbach> dothebart: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess (if you want a newer version in Ubuntu for some reason) and because we're near beta freeze: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
<dholbach> dothebart: so basically: everybody who cares can get it done, there's just a bit of paperwork involved because we're getting near release
<dothebart> the actual version is a good step behind, and there are a good number of bugfixes in there...
<dholbach> if it's a bugfix only release that makes things even more likely to get it done
<dothebart> lenny actualy has .37 with many patches.
<dothebart> upstream has .38, which is a maintainance release.
<dholbach> just check out the wiki pages I mentioned, they tell you how to file bug reports on which the teams will act
<dothebart> btw, i'm the first real person on the upstream maintainr list.
<dothebart> ok, bugreport filed.
<dothebart> tnx...
<iulian> Would someone like to have a look at bug 274276 please?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274276 in salasaga "Please sync salasaga 0.8.0~alpha4-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274276
<iulian> I didn't write an exception because I think that changing the build system is not considered a feature.
<iulian> Or should I file one just because it's a new upstream release?
<persia> Any KDE people around who might be able to chase the boson FTBFS?
<persia> Boson build-deps on libkdegames-dev, which depends on kdelibs5-dev, which isn't getting installed.
<soren> kirkland: Ah. QEmu fails to build because linux/dirent.h got removed. http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux-2.6.git;a=commit;h=cf6ae8b50e0ee3f764392dadd1970e3f03c40773
<kirkland> soren: yeah, that was poo
<soren> kirkland: You might be able to just use <dirent.h> instead, but what I'd do is look at what kvm did to overcome this change.
<kirkland> soren: i just did the former for my upload
<kirkland> soren: my qemu upload
<kirkland> soren: btw, slangasek sponsored the kvm on
<kirkland> soren: and i pushed the same patch to the qemu package
<kirkland> soren: and posted it on the qemu-devel list
<soren> Awesome!
<kirkland> soren: you might just sanity check all of that, please
<kirkland> soren: i tested all of my keys on my thinkpad
<kirkland> soren: probably would help to spread that out a bit
<kirkland> soren: probably safe since that patch has been riding in gtk-vnc for a few days now
<soren> kirkland: At a glance, it looks great.
<kirkland> soren: rockin'
<soren> Very :)
<quadrispro> dholbach: hi, bug 274299
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274299 in tk8.5 "Please sync tk8.5 8.5.3-3 (main) from Debian unstable (main)." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274299
<dholbach> quadrispro: I'm subscribed to it - I'll take a look at it in a bit
<quadrispro> dholbach: i didn't want request a sync with the upstream version, but with sid version
<quadrispro> ok thank you :)
<dholbach> tk8.5 (8.5.4-1) experimental; urgency=low
<dholbach>   * New upstream release.
<dholbach>  -- Sergei Golovan <sgolovan@debian.org> Sat, 23 Aug 2008 16:40:42 +0400
<dholbach> it says in the bug report
<dholbach> it also says "Changelog since current intrepid version 8.5.3-1:"
<quadrispro> dholbach: that changelog has been created by requestsync
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> so it should be 8.5.3-3 everywhere?
<dholbach> could you update it?
<quadrispro> it's a mistake, yes, 8.5.3-3
<dholbach> thanks
<quadrispro> sure
<quadrispro> done
<dholbach> ROCK
<quadrispro> :D
<asac> fabrice_sp|away: ping me when you are back
<directhex> http://blogs.computerworld.com/where_windows_is_2_to_linux
<stani> Would it be ok to mark Bug #70887 as invalid? See my last comment.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 70887 in wxwidgets2.6 "Crash when closing a simple program" [Medium,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/70887
<stani> pochu: ^?
<pochu> hi stani
<pochu> looking
<pochu> stani: yes, it makes sense
<pochu> stani: there's the option to convert bugs to questions too, see in the top right corner
<pochu> the "Convert to a question" link
<stani> hmmm... but normally there won't be wxpython gurus answering questions there
<stani> if he asks this on the mailing list he will be answered in no time
<pochu> so you can do both :)
<pochu> convert it to a question closing it as invalid, and tell him he may be answered quite fast in that list
<pochu> that's what I would do
<stani> ok
<stani> I'll do that
<stani> do I first have to make the bug invalid, as converting into a question does not work directly?
<pochu> doesn't it close it as invalid automatically?
<nhandler> Yes it does pochu
<pochu> hey nhandler
<pochu> bah
<nhandler> The only thing you need to do before converting a bug to a question is verify that the bug is for the correct package
<nhandler> Hello pochu
<stani> http://paste.ubuntu.com/50459/
<pochu> I can't type "^" with my keyboard anymore :-/
<pochu> I have to copy&paste it...
<stani> the bug is invalid already
<stani> ^ that was the problem
<stani> now it seems to work
<karooga> hi, anyone familiar with GQ?
<karooga> sorry, wrong channel.
<Lazy> Hi, has anyone checked this? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tor/+bug/261693
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 261693 in tor "version bump to 0.2.X" [Undecided,New]
<Lazy> Debian has already updated to that version..
<didrocks> dholbach: I think that now, it may be ok for bugs #273579. Thx for your patience :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 273579 in gnome-system-tools "Please sponsor gnome-system-tools 2.22.1 into intrepid" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/273579
<dholbach> didrocks: I'll take care of it later, need to rush out to a Bug Jam now :-)
<didrocks> dholbach: have a good bug jam event :)
<dholbach> thanks :)
<Hew> Can someone have a look at bug 189406? It seems to be getting ignored, even though it's a clear regression and an easy fix. I set this issue to medium importance a while ago, and it's just been changed to wishlist and had the milestone removed. Why?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 189406 in update-manager "Update Manager doesn't display package versions anymore" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/189406
<norsetto> jdong: no need to involve motu-release if its a bug fix only
<geser> Hew: please ask Keybuk in #ubuntu-devel as he made this status changes
<Hew> geser: Will do, thanks.
 * iulian is looking for a motu to ack bug 274276
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274276 in salasaga "Please sync salasaga 0.8.0~alpha4-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274276
<slytherin> geser: Do you think you can sponsor a small debdiff for libdvdread. The install-css.sh script is modified to use medibuntu packages and some other improvements to the script.
<siretart> jdong: vlc 0.9.3 would most probably need a new exception. read a new bug, new report, new list of fixed bugs and so on
<geser> slytherin: probably. Is beta freeze already?
<slytherin> geser: Will it need freeze exception? The bug in question is bug #105963
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 105963 in libdvdread "libdvdread3 on 7.04 64bit requires build-essential. " [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/105963
<geser> slytherin: that would be a question I'd need to figure out myself first
<slytherin> It doesn't add any new feature. Only fixes a problem.
<geser> slytherin: the question would be if every upload after beta freeze needs a exception from ~motu-release
<slytherin> Oh. I didn't know that. I thought such rule would apply to to RC.
<geser> slytherin: might be, that's what I don't remember exactly
<geser> I remember that after some point every upload needs an exception but not anymore when the point is
<bigon> great, nomore sound on my laptop running intrepid
<Laney> dholbach: Thought you might be interested in this - the latest Ubuntu UK podcast has a big segment on 5-a-day
<jdong> word of advice: Avoid trying to explain Little's Law and queuing theory to Subway's workers.
<geser> bobbo: re bug 274174 and debian bug 500090: do you know which desktop file the ubuntu package of fityk uses?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274174 in fityk "Please merge fityk 0.8.6-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274174
<ubottu> Debian bug 500090 in fityk "Desktop file does not validate" [Minor,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/500090
<bobbo> geser: sorry, still around?
<nxvl> DktrKranz: mi lovely sponsor
<nxvl> DktrKranz: need a favor
<nxvl> DktrKranz: Bug #274173
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274173 in terminator "[FFe] Please sync terminator 0.11 from debian sid" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274173
<bobbo> geser: I am not sure and dont have an intrepid installation to hand to test it out, but it looks like a sync of the next fityk upload should solve any problems
<DktrKranz> nxvl, I used to be your lovely sponsor, now I need to figure out to love from now on... :)
<nxvl> :D
<nxvl> DktrKranz: you can still love me :D
<geser> bobbo: I'm just asking if we perhaps patch an unused file and could sync right now
<bobbo> geser: ah yeah, makes sense, i'll try a testbuild with the file removed and see if anything breaks and get back to you
<DktrKranz> nxvl, I can grant you a love exception but I  guess it's not the exception you want, isn't it?
<geser> bobbo: thanks
<nxvl> heh
<nxvl> :D
<nxvl> DktrKranz: or you can grant me a lovely FFe
<nxvl> DktrKranz: :D
<DktrKranz> nice combo ;)
<geser> bobbo: I've just tested the desktop file from the fityk deb from Debian and desktop-file-validate doesn't complain
<nxvl> \o/
<nxvl> lunch time
<nxvl> bbl
<DktrKranz> give me a sec to discover why my favourite program crashes and I'm all yours
<DktrKranz> (well... FFe related only)
<bobbo> geser: just checked debian/rules and it installs the upstream .desktop file (in the source package root) and doesnt touch the one in /debian
<sebner> DktrKranz: you beloved sponsor you :P
<DktrKranz> sebner, shut up or send that mail, your choice
<DktrKranz> ;)
<bobbo> geser: looks like I can file a sync request now?
<sebner> DktrKranz: Silence! I. K. Y. :P
<DktrKranz> sebner, one of those days I'll send you Jeff, so you'll meet achmed
<sebner> \o/
 * sebner hides xD
<geser> bobbo: yes, just give a good description why the ubuntu changes  can be dropped
<bobbo> geser: Bug #274509. Thanks for pointing that out :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274509 in fityk "Please sync fityk 0.8.6-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274509
<geser> bobbo: ACKed
<bobbo> geser: thanks alot :)
<NCommander> wgrant, ping
<geser> NCommander: according to my clock it's 5 am there
<NCommander> darn, wgrant must require sleep, I forget het's human
 * NCommander runs
 * NCommander was simply looking towards reverse enginneering landscape-server
<Adri2000> norsetto: ngircd's sru should be fixed now (if you have time to test)
<norsetto> Adri2000: sure
 * sebner waves to norsetto :)
 * norsetto feels the air on his face
<sebner> xD
<norsetto> hi sebner
<sebner> :)
<sebner> norsetto: Everything fine so far in italy? :)
<norsetto> sebner: as fine as things can go around here
<sebner> good to here :)
<sebner> *hear
<pochu> 161 packages upgraded, 5 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
 * pochu prays for his desktop not to explode
<pochu> err
<pochu> 158 packages upgraded, 5 newly installed, 2 downgraded, 3 to remove and 3 not upgraded.
<norsetto> puchu: you beat me: 116 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 4 not upgraded.
<norsetto> puchu?
<norsetto> oh well ...
<pochu> heh
 * pochu waves at norsetto 
 * norsetto is gratefull for some more fresh air :-)
<norsetto> pochu: hey, this is cool:  xserver-xorg-core: Conflicts: xserver-xorg-video-2 E: Broken packages
<nxvl> i upgraded to intrepid without problems
<nxvl> well, almost
<nxvl> 1) aptitude safe-upgrade -> Xorg crash, not even able to stop it and go to the terminal, system hanged
<nxvl> 2) edit grub, single mode -> apt-get dist-upgrade -> w00t \o/
<norsetto> nxvl: stop using terminator, see what happens ...
<nxvl> nooo
 * nxvl runs screaming and holding his terminator
<compengi> is there any known pidgin 2.5.1 ppa package that was approved to be good?
<Adri2000> compengi: uh? it's in intrepid, what's the problem?
<Laney> compengi: Why not build+test a backport with prevu and comment on bug #271453 as to whether it works? (assuming you're on Hardy)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 271453 in hardy-backports "Please backport Pidgin 2.5.1-0ubuntu2" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/271453
<compengi> Adri2000, oh, already in intrepid. i checked the package site week ago it wasn't. thanks :)
<compengi> Laney, yeah i'm on hardy
<compengi> Laney, is that bug found in 0ubuntu1 too?
 * NCommander tries it
<NCommander> compengi, I'm test building the backport
<Laney> I would do it but I don't have a Hardy install
<NCommander> Laney, pbuilder is your friend
<Laney> for building
<Laney> but not for testing
<Laney> nothing beats a proper install ;)
<NCommander> Laney, pbuilder login, install the package, and run it
<NCommander> That's how I do every backport ack
<Laney> I prefer to do test runs in a VM
<NCommander> Laney, you seriously feel that a VM is needed?
 * NCommander considers that overkill
<Laney> It's really no trouble tbh
<verwilst> emgent: ping
<NCommander> Laney, well, I'll ack pidgin if it builds and works
<Laney> NCommander: Be sure to test the rdepends
 * Laney did the last pidgin backport
<NCommander> Oh *fun*
 * NCommander loves rdepends
<NCommander> I'm going to haphazardly guess that all the plugins need a binary rebuild or backport?
<Laney> They didn't last time
<NCommander> ok
 * NCommander waits for this to build
<NCommander> Laney, well, pidgin builds fine
<Laney> As it should ;)
<Laney> 'snot that different from 2.5.0
<NCommander> ok, pidgin installed
<NCommander> ;-)
<NCommander> so its installable
<NCommander> (pidgin:12292): Gdk-CRITICAL **: gdk_display_get_name: assertion `GDK_IS_DISPLAY (display)' failed
<NCommander> That's an issue
 * NCommander hates figuring out the required black magic to get X11 to work
<NCommander> Well, firefox now has an ad it seems that Mozilla is "free software"
<verwilst> i'm having dbconfig-common issues..
<verwilst> if someone has the time to install a ( non-intrusive ) package from my ppa and try it out? :$
<verwilst> i cannot remove the package because it fails in the uninstall phase
<NCommander> Why does it fail to uninstall?
<verwilst> let me give you access to my server so you can see for yourself :)
<azeem> verwilst: pastebin the error, rather
<NCommander> verwilst, makes life easier to pastebin it
<verwilst> http://pastebin.ca/1210917
<verwilst> any ideas?
<superm1> verwilst, well what's in the prerm script?
<verwilst> http://pastebin.ca/1210927 for some more info
<verwilst> oh i pasted the wrong script
<azeem> #
<azeem> No /usr/sbin/zabbix_server found running; none killed.
<azeem> #
<azeem> dpkg: error processing zabbix-server-mysql (--remove):
<azeem> # subprocess pre-removal script returned error exit status 10
<azeem> well, buggy
<verwilst> http://pastebin.ca/1210928
<verwilst> omg
<verwilst> just because it can't shut down zabbix-server?
<azeem> looks like the init script can't handle that
 * verwilst wonders why he didnt see this himself :|
<verwilst> you mean the init script should exit 0 when it wasnt running?
<superm1> that seems to make the most sense to me
<azeem> check policy, but yeah, I believe so
<verwilst> it exits 0..
<verwilst> just tried it manually
<verwilst> No /usr/sbin/zabbix_server found running; none killed.   root@test002:~# echo $?   0
<verwilst> the only step below that is dbc_go zabbix-proxy-mysql $@
<superm1> verwilst, i'd recommend putting in set -x
<superm1> in your prerm to debug it
<verwilst> superm1: ah, nice that you can just do it on the fly
<verwilst> No /usr/sbin/zabbix_server found running; none killed.
<verwilst> + dbc_go zabbix-proxy-mysql remove
<verwilst> wtf?
<verwilst> proxy?
<verwilst> the actual error is from + RET=10 zabbix-proxy-mysql/dbconfig-remove doesn't exist
<superm1> well there you go
<verwilst> how will it have gotten in there?
<verwilst> where does it fetch the pkgname?
<verwilst> hm
<verwilst> my zabbix-proxy-mysql.prerm has server, and vice versa
<verwilst> rebuilding :)
<verwilst> works!
<verwilst> jaj1
<verwilst> thanks a lot guys for your help :)
<verwilst> it's a lot easier when there are some people thinking along :)
<Adri2000> bobbo: re your mpd merge - I think it's unlikely that an init.d change fixes the segfault bug
#ubuntu-motu 2008-09-26
<RAOF> pochu: What, if anything, are you doing about bug #274485?  Do we know whether a simple rebuild of anjunta and python-gnome2-extras will strip the libgdl-gnome dependency, or whether we need to reinstate the libgdl-gnome package?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274485 in gdl "can't install listen 0.5-5ubuntu1" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274485
 * RAOF gardens that bug.
<dholbach> good morning
<didrocks> good morning o/
<dholbach> didrocks: I uploaded g-s-t - it's in the queue right now
<didrocks> dholbach: thanks a lot! Was your bug jam interesting? :)
<didrocks> (I reckon, yes, as usual ;))
<dholbach> it was great, we had around 15 people there, almost all pretty new to bug triage, so we didn't get a lot of bugs done, but everybody left very excited for the next jam :)
<dholbach> so I'd say "a success"
<dholbach> I'll blog about it in a bit
<iulian> G'morning.
<didrocks> dholbach: that's good news! I'll experienced an internal bug jam party in the Â« Ubuntu Party Â» for the next release (2 days event)
<dholbach> 2 days of bug jam?
<didrocks> dholbach: no, the party (conferences, install party, open talks, demos, beginner courses) will length 2 days. We have planned to make two bug jams (one each day), for a limited time, more to find/teach new bug triagers
<dholbach> nice
<dholbach> that sounds great
<didrocks> hope it will ^^
<geser> good morning
<dholbach> hi geser!
<geser> hi dholbach
<LucidFox> doko, are you here?
<iulian> I'm looking for someone to ack bug 274276.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274276 in salasaga "Please sync salasaga 0.8.0~alpha4-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274276
<iulian> I'd be more than happy to see this uploaded as the current version is pretty useless.
<huats> morning everyone
<dholbach> hi huats
<huats> hey dholbach
<huats> :)
<huats> how are you ?
<dholbach> good good - how 'bout you?
<huats> great too
<huats> I am just returning from an Open Source event in paris
<huats> it was nice to see all that known faces :)
<directhex> yeah, but french people? :o
<huats> (vuntz, nijaba, didrocks and more :)
<huats> sure....
<dholbach> cool
<huats> directhex: sure french people, but since I am also french :)
<directhex> tsk!
<didrocks> yep ^^
<directhex> they let anyone work on software these days...
<didrocks> directhex: :p
<directhex> coo, new stable rockbox release. i'll update from my svn build
<dholbach> \sh: are you going to take care of bug 239734?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 239734 in python-httplib2 "[Freeze Exception] python-httplib2 should be upgraded to 0.4.0" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/239734
<POX> a propos sync requests: is anyone using SQLAlchemy here? If yes, you probably want to sync 0.4.7p1-2 from Debian (Ubuntu has 0.4.6-1), I don't have time right now to check if it works on Ubuntu (it should, I didn't change that much in the package)
<directhex> feature freeze is in effect. is it a bugfix-only release?
<POX> directhex: well, it's new upstream but it's mostly bugfix release (+few minor features backported from 0.5 which is currently in experimental)
<POX> here's (very detailed) upstream changelog: http://www.sqlalchemy.org/trac/browser/sqlalchemy/tags/rel_0_4_7p1/CHANGES, my changes are
<POX> in debian/changelog
<POX> http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/s/sqlalchemy/sqlalchemy_0.4.7p1-2/changelog.html
<rulus> If someone has time for a small upload, I just filed bug #274722. It's a bugfix only release, so I don't think this needs a FFe?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274722 in gnuvd "Please merge gnuvd 1.0.9-1 (multiverse) from Debian unstable (contrib/text)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274722
<Laney> rulus: It might be nice to say that it is bugfix only (and paste the upstream changelog) in the bug to help the sponsors
<rulus> ah, sure, I'll change it :)
<zorglu_> q. what is the status of vlc 0.9 on hardy ?
<zorglu_> any motumedia around ?
<persia> zorglu_: There was an FFe for 0.9.2, which I think I heard was approved.  I've seen traffic implying the bugfixes from 0.9.3 are expected to be included, but I'm not sure what the version string will show.
<zorglu_> persia: what FFe mean ?
<persia> zorglu_: Feature Freeze Exception
<zorglu_> persia: ?? for hardy ?
<persia> For intrepid.
<persia> FOr hardy, I thought the plan was to stick with 0.8.x.x
<persia> For hardy-backports, I've heard nothing.
<zorglu_> persia: ok :) and for hardy ?
<zorglu_> persia: hmmm ok
<Laney> zorglu_: There's a bug on hardy-backports but I think it was rejected as the dependencies can't be satisfied
<zorglu_> so i will have to run vlc in a VM in my servers :)
<persia> zorglu_: There's no point looking for hardy-backports until it's in intrepid anyway.
<zorglu_> persia: ok thanks
<persia> Laney: Oh, did that already happen?  Thanks.
<Laney> persia: The Intrepid upload did, yes
<zorglu_> Laney: ok
<persia> Laney: I meant the -backports discussion, but that too :)
<Laney> Well, yes, both did ;)
<Laney> bug #274399
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274399 in hardy-backports "Add vlc in hardy backports ?" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274399
<pochu> RAOF: huats is working on it. I think we need to disable gdl support somewhere
<huats> I am working on something :)
<huats> pochu: I'll have a look after...
<huats> I am finishing anjuta first
<pochu> huats: sure
<pochu> huats: RAOF: I think eliminating libgdl-1-dev from gnome-python-extras' build-depends will solve it
<directhex> O_o @ user on launchpad answers correcting me
<directhex> i'm pretty sure a package I got into intrepid is X version, not the Y version you claim, y'know!
<directhex> someone's been smoking too much crack: https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mono/+question/44628
<bobbo> Adri2000: ping
<laga> directhex: rotfl
<directhex> this is what i get for getting involved in Answers
<Adri2000> bobbo: pong
<bobbo> Adri2000: what were your concerns about the mpd merge?
<Adri2000> bobbo: just that you mention it fixes a segfault bug, whereas your merge only changes the init script
<bobbo> Adri2000: ah, sorry, i meant to get rid of that one, thanks for reminding me :)
<directhex> laga, hit f5 Â¬_Â¬
<laga> directhex: hahaha
<laga> that's priceless
<bddebian> Heya gang
<kirkland> procedural question on a package that just got it's second +1 in REVU this morning....
<kirkland> am i correct in assuming it's too late to add it to the universe archive for intrepid?
<kirkland> since we're in beta freeze?
<geser> Hi bddebian
<dholbach> kirkland: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeatureFreezeException
<geser> kirkland: yes, unless you have an exception
<geser> kirkland: that's already since FF not just since beta freeze
<dholbach> excusez-moi... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeatureFreeze
<dholbach> arg
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
<kirkland> geser: dholbach: okay, i don't think this will get a FFe, so is it just a matter of waiting until the archive reopens?
<dholbach> kirkland: yeah and chaging "intrepid" to "jaunty"
<kirkland> dholbach: ah, good call ;-)
<bddebian> Heya geser
<superm1> persia, have you been experimenting much with that bluez-gnome 0.28 package off of that ppa?
<persia> superm1: I have been.  It works for comms, but I've not been able to get it to work with a keyboard (but I can't get my keyboard to work with 0.25 either).
<persia> I've also been working with crevette to look at the fedora patches, etc. and try to get all the fixes together in one upload.  I'm just *very* fearful of regresion for people with bluetooth keyboards and mice.
<superm1> persia, have you tried a mouse?
<persia> I don't have a bluetooth mouse.
<superm1> persia, i've gotten it to work with a mouse at least
<superm1> persia, i'll have to get some more batteries to experiment with a keyboard
<persia> You have!  That's excellent news.
<persia> Could you report that it works with a mouse in the bug?  That ought be enough we can ask for an upload.
<superm1> what's the bug number again, do you know off hand?
<persia> I'd really like to see 0.28 in beta if we're going to ship it in intrepid.
<persia> I think it's the right thing to do anyway, because we'll surely be looking at BlueZ 4 for jaunty.
<superm1> most definitely.
<directhex> i'd like to see monodoc 1.9, but sometimes life just doesn't go the right way
<superm1> i wanted to get mterry's patch for the nice pairing wizard too, but it didn't work properly when i rebased it to 0.28
<persia> But it works for 0.25?
<superm1> it works for what was in hardy. lets see what that was
<superm1> 0.25 it looks like i suppose yeah
<superm1> we're past UI freeze though
<persia> superm1: Well, which do you think is the better route?
<superm1> persia, that's a tough question, but i suppose since things appear broke right now, either are feasible solutions
<superm1> mterry, would you be able to look at the rebase on 0.28 i did (attached to your bug) and see if anything stands out about it?
<persia> superm1: Right.  I know 0.28 contains lots of bugfixes, but the UI leaves something to be desired.
<superm1> ideally doing 0.28 + that patch would be the best solution
<persia> Indeed.  Maybe 0.28 RSN, and the patch in a couple days?
<mterry> superm1: Yeah, OK.
<mterry> superm1: In what way doesn't it work on 0.28?
<superm1> mterry, the UI froze up when i tried to pair
<mterry> superm1: Guh, OK
<salutis> hello all, I have big problem - recently I moved my packages from my own server to ubuntu's PPA at launchpad. and now I can't build my packages anymore. I placed my log at 'http://www.salutis.sk/ppa-log.txt'. can anyone please help me? thanks!
<persia> Oh, and it's bug #256994
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 256994 in bluez-gnome "Please update bluez-gnome to 0.28 and rebase off Debian" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/256994
<superm1> persia, yeah i just found it and responded :)
<geser> salutis: the build target is always run as non-root on the buildds, just remove the dh_testroot from the build target and it should get farther
<rizobs> join irc.esylum.net #bishes-chat type !rizobs for access to our pre-channel & fast bots
<rizobs> join irc.esylum.net #bishes-chat type !rizobs for access to our pre-channel & fast bots
<rizobs> join irc.esylum.net #bishes-chat type !rizobs for access to our pre-channel & fast bots
<directhex> fascinating Â¬_Â¬
<salutis> ï»¿geser: aha!
<StevenK> Heh, I was about to call the ops
<StevenK> And then they left
<salutis> geser: I will try
<directhex> i'm asking a freenode staffer to intervene
<directhex> laga, f5!
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<Hobbsee> sigh
<directhex> something amiss?
<Hobbsee> rozobs
<Hobbsee> er, rizobs
<directhex> it appears my pet freenode staffer is MIA. so anyone wants to get the ip something-lined needs to follow conventional channels
<Hobbsee> directhex: not much point - nothing on that ip's on freenode now anwyay
<directhex> bleh
<Hobbsee> sending 240v down there might be more effective, though.
<directhex> 415 do you?
<Hobbsee> sounds good.
<directhex> did you get a chance to read my wonderful and life-changing blog entry then? \o/
<superm1> persia, i just verified with hardy and intrepid on live usb keys that keyboard pairing is not sticking with intrepid - either 0.25 or 0.28
<superm1> persia, but it works with hardy
<superm1> so i'd be inclined to believe it's caused by something different
<persia> superm1: That was my experience.  So, 0.28 isn't a regression, but it's broken for some other reason?
<superm1> persia, it "pairs" in the UI, and shows that it connects/disconnects, but doesnt work
<superm1> right
<persia> Right.  I think it's something with Xinput2 hotplug, but haven't figured out what.
<persia> I can force the pairing in intrepid with bluez-utils (no need for bluez-gnome), but I can't make it work in X.
<iulian> Hi
<superm1> have you looked if hal starts to see the devices in either case?
<superm1> hardy or intrepid
<persia> No :)
 * persia adds that to the list of things to do soonish like.
<superm1> okay well i'm booted into hardy right now, and it does show up in lshal
<superm1> so there's a first data point
<mterry> superm1: I tried 0.28 with your bluetooth patch (on a hardy machine, so perhaps invalid test), and I successfully connected/used a mouse and headphone with the wizard
<persia> mterry: That's excellent news.  I think you've demonstrated that bluez-gnome 0.28 isn't the source of the issue.
<superm1> mterry, interesting.  i'm wondering what the UI timeouts could have been on this end.  persia and i will get back to that patch after we get keyboards working in intrepid
<persia> superm1: It's showing in gnome-device-manager for me, but oddly my keyboard is considered a "pointing device".  It also automatically disconnects without having done anything.  This is 0.25 in intrepid.
<pochu> why is ~motu a subteam of ~universe-contributors?
<pochu> re
<pochu> my question still stands :-)
 * sistpoty|work heads home... cya
<persia> pochu: because all MOTU are also universe contributors.
<persia> OK.  A little history:
<persia> First, MOTU granted membership.  Then MC asked CC for the right to separate MOTUship and Membership, and CC asked for the creation of UC.  MOTU is now part of UC to gain membership.
<persia> (and maybe I forgot to press some buttons in LP, but that's the idea)
<pochu> persia: so ~motu is no longer a subteam of ~ubuntumembers, so ~motu has to be a subteam of ~u-c to be a subteam of ~ubuntumembers?
<persia> pochu: At least that's the idea.  I don't remember if I pressed all the right buttons.
<pochu> ok
<persia> (and if I haven't, I'm a little fearful of accidentally breaking some developers @ubuntu.com)
<pochu> I just wondered because I started to see MOTUs with the u-c icon
<superm1> persia, well it's not generating an input device in dmesg or /sys like it should
<superm1> at least for me
<superm1> an important data point is that in intrepid we are using the new "btusb" driver
<persia> superm1: How about a new entry in /dev/input/ or something with lsinput?
<persia> That is an important data point.
<superm1> persia, not for me at least
<superm1> the older driver is available in the kernel still, but you cant have them both compiled side by side
<persia> using bluez-gnome. or bluez-utils?
<superm1> i've been using the gnome applet
<superm1> hidd isn't supported upstream so i dont use it ever
<persia> I can't get bluez-gnome to connect at all, but have limited success with bluez-utils.
<persia> Ah.  hidd is kinda working for me.  I get the input device, I just can't use it.
<superm1> persia, from some searches i'm finding that people are running into troubles with suspend/resume on btusb too
<superm1> there is a patchset sitting on bluez.org at least for suspend/resume, but it's not in linus' tree yet
<superm1> so i'm thinking at this point, we need to compile the hci_usb driver again, and test with it
<superm1> if things are sane with it, we should just not go out the door with btusb
<superm1> wait for it to stabilize before making the switch
<persia> That sounds like a good plan.  I'm not so good with drivers, but I'm happy to be a tester.
<superm1> persia, lets pop in #ubuntu-kernel and see if we can just get one of them to put out a kernel on a ppa w/ hci-usb instead
<superm1> mterry, regarding your patch not working on intrepid, i suspect it's due to newer bluez-utils.  the patch times out regarding services (which i'd imagine was meaning dbus services).
<persia> And the newer bluez-utils fixes a *large* number of connectivity bugs with symbian devices, so we don't want to revert that.
<superm1> well is there a way to look at the registered dbus services?
<superm1> an equivalent to lshal in dbus form
<persia> dbus-monitor may help.
<mterry> superm1: OK, I'll update my bluez-utils
 * persia wonders what the GNOME equivalent to kdbus might be
<sebner> huhu persia :)
<superm1> persia, http://people.atrpms.net/~mlimonciello/hci_usb.tar.gz
<superm1> grab that, install kernel headers and type make
<superm1> you should get an hci_usb.ko  that you can experiment with
<superm1> i pulled it out of the 2.6.27 tree and adjusted header inclusions to let it compile
<persia> superm1: OK.  Then I just modprobe -r btusb, and mobprobe hci-usb?
<superm1> theoretically
<superm1> i couldnt rmmod btusb
<superm1> and it makes it difficult to blacklist it when i'm operating off a usb key
<superm1> and it wont modprobe unless you drop it somewhere in /lib/modules/`uname -r` and depmod -a
<superm1> you'll have to insmod ./hci_usb.ko instead
<sebner> persia: I think I already asked you but is bug #261986 valid to pass it to the archive admins?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 261986 in gnurobots "Please sync gnurobots 1.2.0-1 from Debian(Unstable)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/261986
<persia> OK.  insmod isn't an issue, and I've a proper install.
<persia> sebner: It was when it was acked.  I'm not sure about it now: it would need a review to see if it requires an FFe.
<sebner> persia: I'll subscribe u-u-s then?
<persia> sebner: No.  It has all the uus stuff done.  It just might need an FFe.  If it doesn't, you can subscribe the archive-admins.  If it does, you need to fill in the details, and subscribe motu-release.
<sebner> persia: well, you said it needs a review. by me or do you refer to a MOTU?
<persia> sebner: By someone.  You'd probably be a good person.
<sebner> persia: ^^, what points do I have to mind?
<persia> sebner: That we're in FeatureFreeze, UI Freeze, and Beta Freeze.  It needs to fix bugs, and not break anything.
<sebner> persia: well, we have no open bugs in ubuntu but I'll take a deeper look at it
<persia> sebner: Right.  It ought to have been subscribed to the archive admins a month ago.  This is probably my fault.
<sebner> persia: of course it's yours :P but nvm. ;)
<sebner> persia: bah ... UI changes. Seems not that worth it at this time of release cycle
<persia> sebner: Sorry :(
<pochu> who moderates ubuntu-motu-mentors@ ?
<sebner> persia: I don't use it and so far no one complained that we have this old version so please don't worry. I also could have asked you earlier :)
<pochu> norsetto: ping, do you moderate ubuntu-motu-mentors@ ?
<persia> superm1: As I'm testing this, I'm reminded of the massive package split.  Do we want to do some recommending whilst we're looking around at this?
<superm1> recommending of which?
<persia> bluez-input, bluez-network, etc.
<superm1> persia, latest bluez-utils should have recommends fixed
<superm1> persia, 3.36-1ubuntu2
 * persia upgrades *everything*
<superm1> persia, considering the quite broken state of things, i'm not sure it should be entirely out of the question to switch to the 4.x series if these problems are solved
<persia> Last I heard 4.x wasn't in great shape either, but having buggy beta software that might get fixed might be better than having buggy stable software that won't get fixed.
<superm1> yeah that's exactly what my thought process was
<persia> That said, I was getting useful stuff out of hci_usb.  I'm just waiting for update-manager to catch up (this was a fresh install of an image from the 23rd), and will fiddle.
<persia> If we can fix this with a kernel driver selection change, that seems the better choice to me.
<superm1> right
<persia> (and I'm very happy, as I've spent the last week kicking myself trying to figure out how to connect to the keyboard: at least now I know it's broken)
<superm1> persia, well i'm glad this is getting caught now, 8.04 went out with keyboard support that timed out after 30 minutes
<superm1> we tracked down a patch that made it into 8.04.1 luckily
<persia> Actually, credit belongs to slytherin and crevette who have been chasing this for the past month.  That's why we have such a good candidate available for 0.28
<persia> My initial impulse to upgrade was just for version tweaking, which is why I gave up so easily when we hit FF.
<superm1> interesting thing i'm reading in the changelog is that authentication and encryption for HID devices doesn't show up until bluez 4.6.  i wonder what the 3.x series was even doing then
<persia> broadcasting
<superm1> ah that's quite reassuring...
<superm1> but you're probably right
<persia> OK.  All upgraded.  All the services present.  No passkey input,  Authentication fails.
<persia> So, hci_usb gives me the same results as btusb
<superm1> it comes up behind the window sometimes
<superm1> and you also sometimes need to enter your passkey on the keyboard first (even though it doesnt tell you)
<persia> Tried both of those options.  No luck
<persia> So, what's next?  Package and patch 4.x in a PPA?
<superm1> ugh it's gonna be a big effort to do this package
 * persia expects it needs a *lot* of testing to be included.
<superm1> bluez-utils + bluez-libs == bluez now
<superm1> so NEW source package
<superm1> w/ a proper libbluetooth and bluez binary package
<persia> Yeah, it's very much not to be taken lightly.
<superm1> for now, i say lets put 0.28 in the archive
<superm1> to make beta
<superm1> and have broken keyboard
<persia> As much as anything the interesting question is: can this be fixed.
<superm1> its an improvement over the current situation
<persia> Under the assumption that a keyboard is broken anyway?
<superm1> well under the assumption that 0.28 didn't make it worse
<persia> OK.  I'm good for that.
<superm1> which it didn't since mterry tested 0.28 on hardy and was able to use it fine
<persia> Right, and 0.28 + the new fedora patches do fix a number of outstanding issues.
<superm1> i wonder if the debian bluetooth team started doing 4.x already
<superm1> if so that, might help out a little here
<superm1> at least on alioth
<persia> Maybe.  Last I chatted with them (August) they were sitting on 0.27 for lenny, working on other stuff, and planning to look at 4.x for squeeze.
<norsetto> pochu: no
<superm1> looking at their svn on alioth i dont see any indications that they've started 4.x packaging
<pochu> norsetto: ok. do you know who moderates it?
<persia> Nope.  Looks like work in experimental on bluez-utils 3.36
<norsetto> pochu: no idea, perhaps dholbach
<superm1> well i was hoping they did the packaging and didnt upload it to anything yet
<superm1> i know teams in debian that like to do that
<superm1> during freezes
<pochu> norsetto: ok, thanks
<persia> No.  filippo specifically wanted to do something else.  Too bad he got stuck cherrypicking stuff.
<norsetto> pochu: here: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu-mentors (dholbach, soren, nixternal)
<pochu> norsetto: thanks!
<norsetto> pochu: de nada
<pochu> soren, nixternal: "supravat paul" in ubuntu-motu-mentors@ is asking for a moderation...
<persia> superm1: Did you havea  version of mterry's patch that applied against crevette's 0.28 snapshot?  Do you want to add an updated debdiff to bug #256994 including that, and we can get someone to upload?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 256994 in bluez-gnome "Please update bluez-gnome to 0.28 and rebase off Debian" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/256994
<superm1> persia, mterry's patch doesn't work against the current dbus services i think.  go without it for now
<superm1> persia, it'd need some more testing anyhow
<persia> OK.  I'll poke crevette to get a final debdiff up, and try to get a sponsor then.  Do you know if we need ubuntu-release approval before or after sponsoring?
<superm1> persia, so the existing diffs that were ready for 0.28 should be sufficient
<superm1> persia, should need it before sponsoring
<soren> pochu: Nothing in the moderation queue.. Maybe someone beat me to it.
<persia> Right.  I'm to bed, but I'll add the diffs, etc. tomorrow if someone doesn't get to it whilst I sleep, and push to the release team.
<superm1> persia, okay sounds good.  i'll take a look at how bad doing 4.x will be packaging wise, but no guarantees
<persia> superm1: Understood.  Given the number of screaming intrepid testers complaining that bluetooth is terribly broken, I'm not sure it's worth going for the upgrade unless you run into a bunch of time.
<persia> I'd rather explain it's not working because it's not 4.x than that it's not working because we don't want to cherrypick anymore.
<persia> Mind you, if there were lots of people making noise, I'd probably not have that opinion.
<superm1> persia, well unfortunately i have 2x BT keyboards at home, and i was planning upgrading to intrepid soon :)
<persia> superm1: Oh.  Well.  Now you have an incentive to upgrade earlier in the cycle :)
<superm1> persia, both have fglrx, so aint gonna happen yet :)
<persia> Ooooh.  Those might just be good candidates to help troubleshoot the 8.04 -> 10.04 upgrade with 8.04 -> 9.04.
<persia> Anyway, in the interests of completing freeze exception documentation sooner, I depart.
<superm1> okay g'night
<pochu> soren: I mean, he's sent 7 messages with "Help" as subject asking for help on installing things, and someone already asked him to use ubuntu-users@
<pochu> soren: so it's rather the opposite, stop him from being able to post to the list (without reviewing by an admin, not neccessarily a ban)
<directhex> it might be soon to guess, but roughly when is jaunty feature freeze gonna be?
<pochu> directhex: likely in February
<directhex> pochu, i'm smiling sweetly at upstream & asking them to port some code to use a lib in main instead of one in universe
<pochu> directhex: to which upstream?
<directhex> pochu, mono. the final relevant ubuntu patch, post-intrepid, is some mangling of dependencies to not depends: on gda2, and suggests: on it instead
<directhex> laga, still got that window open? f5 power!
<laga> directhex: great :)
<directhex> laga, after all that, surprise surprise, i knew what the caress i'm talking about
<superm1> persia, well i've got 4.x packaged.. the UI is a significant improvement at least
<directhex> laga, that guy gets more & more epic :|
<wgrant> Which guy?
<directhex> wgrant, someone on answers is arguing with me that intrepid has mono 2.0
<stgraber>       mono | 1.2.6+dfsg-6ubuntu3 |         hardy | source
<stgraber>       mono | 1.9.1+dfsg-3ubuntu2 |      intrepid | source
<directhex> stgraber, it's wrong. intrepid has 2.0. apparently.
<stgraber> that's what is currently in the archive
<stgraber> rmadison never lies
<directhex> stgraber, it's wrong. intrepid has 2.0. apparently.
<stgraber> well, I'm on intrepid right now
<stgraber> stgraber@castiana:~$ mono -V
<stgraber> Mono JIT compiler version 1.9.1 (tarball)
<stgraber> Copyright (C) 2002-2007 Novell, Inc and Contributors. www.mono-project.com
<directhex> if someone was ignoring pkg-mono@alioth and packaging mono independently, i'd have heard the screams of anguish, tbh
<directhex> i'd also be administering slaps for ignoring a cross-distro active co-maintainer team
<slangasek> see, it says right here in the copyright line - intrepid has all the 2.0 versions of mono between 2.0.02 and 2.0.07
<slangasek> <g,d,r>
<directhex> slangasek, i think it's because some packages have 2.0 in the name
<directhex> slangasek, you know, the way they have since mono 1.1.8.1 back in 2005
<stgraber> yeah, we have packages for mono with .net 2.0
<stgraber> it's not mono 2.0 :)
<stgraber> so from my point of view, it's fine to have packages like mono-2.0-devel as their descriptions are correct "Mono development tools for CLI 2.0"
<directhex> mono 2.0 packages will appear when the package transition work is done
<directhex> which is pretty much waiting on lenny
<directhex> so fingers crossed for swift release from debian, since the 2.0 transition will shrink the ubuntu livecd by tens of megs
#ubuntu-motu 2008-09-27
 * pochu waves good night
<Hobbsee> ember: ping?
<Hobbsee> ember: please deal with https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/meta-gnome2/+bug/273015 - you should not be requesting syncs, when the synced packages do not install.  Thankyou.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 273015 in meta-gnome2 "cannot install gnome & gnome-office packages" [High,Confirmed]
 * Hobbsee advises that we're in a beta freeze, and should really not be having these sorts of errors this close to release.  These are simple errors, guys!
<Hobbsee> pochu: please don't sponsor sync requests, when the resulting packages do not build.
<Hobbsee> sorry, install.
<Hobbsee> or build.  either way.
<Hobbsee> (seeing as it appears to be you)
<ember> Hobbsee: thanks for the head up, i'm taking care of it
<Hobbsee> ember: cool
<Hobbsee> ember: how *did* you test install that?
<ember> Hobbsee: i did a manual install of the package, but mostly on a base system we only have gnome-core or gnome-devel
<ember> so gnome-desktop-environment ended up not beeing upgrade
<Hobbsee> ember: and gnome-office?
<ember> same as desktop-env, upgraded gnome-core gnome-devel and desktop-data
<Hobbsee> ember: how does that work?  it had a dependancy on a package that doesn't exist here.
<ember> i really don't understand, ive ended up filling&fixing at bug #273387
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 273387 in meta-gnome2 "meta-gnome2 have unmet deps" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/273387
<Hobbsee> ember: that won't install all the metapackages in meta-gnome2.
<Hobbsee> ember: try installing them all in a clean chroot.  Not an upgrade.
<ember> Hobbsee: i will try that, thanks
<Hobbsee> ember: that's how you should be testing *all* packages.
<Hobbsee> not just upgrades.
<Hobbsee> ember: pbuilder will do a lot of this for you, if you didn't know.  I'm sending a mail about it soon.
<ember> i usually test install&upgrades on a vm or on a my lap
<iulian> G'morning.
<siretart> morning
<siretart> jdong: so you mean green light for vlc 0.9.3? did you verify that it is really a bugfix only release?
<superm1> persia, i've been poking back and forth with bluez 4.x this evening, and should have a mostly functional solution on the ~bluetooth PPA at this point (including working keyboard support :))
<persia> superm1: Excellent.  Bits of documentaiton of your effort had completely destroyed my motivation to document the freeze exception issues for 0.28, and I'm glad the results are ready for testing so soon.
<superm1> persia, there is one point i haven't added to the bug yet (since i believe it is still solvable).
<superm1> it appears that obex might need obexd rather than obex-data-server
<superm1> but i haven't verified that yet
<superm1> otherwise this solution appears to work significantly better
<persia> Better is good :)
<persia> I'll check the UI in hildon in KVM in a few minutes, and get you an opinion on how badly it looks.
<superm1> i expect the main thing is that the new wizard is too tall, but i dont know that's for sure
<persia> How tall?  I don't have anything with Ubuntu with less than 600 vertical pixels, but I know some people are fiddling with things as low as 640x480.
<superm1> its really hard to gauge how tall it really is.  i'm operating on a 1920x1080 16" screen, so i'm not really sure
<persia> heh
<persia> One of my wishlists for the SDL kvm front-end is to have it take arguments to force a given resolution.  I know I can do this with VNC, but then I have to organise a VNC server, etc.
 * siretart ponders if he should upload vlc 0.9.3 to ~motumedia or interpid. opinions?
<persia> I'd say intrepid.  Changing between beta and release seems more risky than changing pre-beta, unless you expect significant regression.
<persia> From traffic I saw from j-b, it looked like mostly just bugfix work from responses to the 0.9.2 release.
<siretart> yeah. I was worried about beta freeze
<siretart> but its multiverse anyway, okay
<persia> Well, sure, you'll need to have a release manager approve the upload, but it's unlikely to affect much of anyone.  Just make sure to time the builds to not break superm1's images.
<superm1> well in theory all binaries would clear at the same time, so hopefully shouldn't be too much of a cause for breakage
<persia> superm1: Hrm?  I thought that binaries cleared as they built.  Is this not the case?  I've often seen arch: any / arch: all skew on amd64.
<superm1> ah that's right, amd64
<superm1> so yeah there could be cause for cd breakage - but i wouldnt say its that big a deal - we can just generate again if one gets times poorly
<persia> superm1: And I presume I want to unblacklist btusb for testing from the PPA, right?
<superm1> persia, yeah
<superm1> i did all my testing using btusb
<superm1> persia, rtg will be pulling in some suspend related quirks when we rebase to rc8, so btusb should be fairly stable at that point
<persia> Great.  bluez has a missing conflicts: on bluez-network
<superm1> yeah that....
<superm1> i forgot those were added in for intrepid
<persia> And bluez-input ...
<superm1> i talked to upstream today and they didnt want it done that way
<superm1> i'll put the conflicts in then
<persia> Great.  I'm discovering them one-by-one when trying to upgrade.
<persia> Upstream wants it as done for the candidate?
<superm1> well they'd like to see the packaging similar to how it is in F10
<superm1> so i renamed and put files how i saw them in the spec file
<superm1> probably also saw one on bluez-serial i imagine?
<StevenK> superm1: And ignoring what Debian are doing with Bluetooth?
<persia> Yep.
<StevenK> superm1: That's going to suck when Jaunty opens
<superm1> StevenK, the debian guy is in #bluez, but wasn't around atm
<persia> StevenK: Debian hasn't looked at 4.x yet.
<superm1> given he hangs out in #bluez, i'm thinking he'd listen to upstream's recommendations too for this
<StevenK> superm1: I'm hoping we aren't trying for BlueZ 4.x in Intrepid? :-)
<superm1> StevenK, well considering it - keyboard pairing appears to be broken in 3.x right now
<persia> StevenK: That's exactly what's being testing.  There is a significant regression with the current stack: keyboards don't work.
<StevenK> Hmmm
<persia> superm1: Well, the pairing wizard works at 600 vertical pixels, but I still can't type.
<superm1> persia, give it a sec, it took a moment for it to get connected on mine
<persia> OK.  Any suggestions on a reasonable waiting time?  It's been a couple minutes.
<superm1> oh, seconds for me
<superm1> it wasn't close to minutes at all
<superm1> then that's not good :(
<persia> Yeah.  I even set it to "trusted" in the preferences panel.
<superm1> i have a second BT keyboard here, let me grab that for another data point
<persia> Ah.  Found it.  I needed to set the "Other Devices can Connect" preference.  I can type now.
<superm1> oh good
<superm1> so perhaps setting that default in the packaging if possible would be a good idea
<persia> OK.  Now to reboot and try under hildon at 600 vertical pixels.
<persia> Yeah.  Don't set visible by default, but set connectable by default.
<superm1> persia, did you get bluez-gnome 1.4 or 1.5 installed?  I'm not sure at what point the publisher did 1.5
<superm1> (so as to see if it was a problem only in 1.4)
 * persia checks
<superm1> oh actually i just reproduced that in 1.5 myself too by clearing /var/lib/bluetooth
<superm1> it looks like you get a config file /var/lib/bluetooth/[mac]/config that controls it's behavior
<superm1> and it's made when you choose a mode of operation
<persia> I seem to have gotten 1.4.
<persia> Right, and if you don't choose a mode of operation, it doesn't work out of the box, which is probably not what we want.
<persia> superm1: Without the hildonisation patches it looks *very* cramped in hildon at 600 pixels.
<superm1> persia, could you adapt the hildonisation patches for 4.x?
<persia> Erm.  Not in a reasonable amount of time.
<superm1> it looks cramped, but that's just the preference tab that looks cramped?
<superm1> or the wizard?
<persia> The preferences tab.  The wizard looks OK, but there's not much content.
<persia> On the other hand, it works, which is kinda nice given the keyboards some some of my laptops.
<persia> I'm just reviewing the 0.27 interface now to see how much worse 1.5 looks.
<superm1> and in all honestly with the wizard there, you won't be spending much time in the preferences tab anyhow
<superm1> assuming there's a doable way to patch or script the pre-selection of connectable
<persia> It's the "bonded devices" list that is the main difference.  With the hildonisation patch, that moves to the right under hildon, so it can show more than one at a time.
<persia> Yeah.  The Connectable-by-default thing needs hinting, as a naive user (like me) won't look at the Preferences before trying to pair a device.
 * persia looks at the hildonisation patch to understand how much code would need to change
<persia> That's not much code, but it's UI fiddling, which always confuses me.
<siretart> did anyone miss a52 and faad support in ubuntu's ffmpeg and wants to test some packages for that?
<persia> superm1: It might not be so bad after all.  Much of the code looks mostly the same.  I'll fiddle a bit, and let you know if it's quickly portable.
 * siretart is also considering a patch for amr support provided by altlinux...
<superm1> persia, okay sounds good.  i'll keep trying to find a way to get this to start up discoverable, and then tomorrow see about the obex stuff
<superm1> persia, it'd be worthwhile to add your keyboard data point to the bug at least though
<persia> superm1: OK.  Are you sure this is easier than trying to fix keyboard support in 3.x?
<superm1> persia, well given how much delta there is from the latest 4.x to 3.36, i'm thinking it is
<superm1> but i'm not positive
<superm1> especially since the code changed API's so drastically
<persia> superm1: OK.  It just seems you're the only person with both a bluetooth keyboard and sufficient knowledge to hack this stuff.  Most of the people with whom I've chatted have not had keyboards or couldn't hack.
<persia> Ah, you think the massive API change is sufficiently reflected in the kernel that we'd have to revert lots of stuff there to make it work?
<superm1> persia, that's what i'm thinking at this point at least
<persia> OK.  I fear breaking stuff, or not having time to fix stuff.  At this point, it seems there are no good choices :)
 * persia starts porting the patch.
<superm1> well just need to keep in mind; it's already fairly broke
<persia> Right.  That's why there are no good choices.
<superm1> can't really break it much more
<persia> Well, we could make audio or comms stop working.
<superm1> ah right
<superm1> conveniently i've got a headset and can do rfcomm via my phone, so i can at least look at those too
<superm1> the branch is owned by ~ubuntu-dev - so if you get the hildonization patch together you should just be able to merge it in yourself
 * persia likes pastebins, but may look at the branch in a bit
<superm1> or if you see anything that you feel like !stab'ing about the packaging and all too :)
 * persia is unlikely to find time for a proper packaging review
<persia> Well, unless it takes a *very* long time to process, but that means we'd miss the deadlines.
<superm1> its mostly a merge of bluez-lib and bluez-utils, so it should be sanish
<superm1> and if there are things that stick out, they likely were artifacts from those previous packages too
<persia> Hrm.  I think maybe the changes to general.c are useless.
<superm1> okay i've got a patch that appears to set the default connectable now
<superm1> assuming that's a software setting and my BT chip doesnt need to be reset, it appears to work
<persia> Shouldn't be an on-chip thing, as booting off different USB keys re-breaks it each time for me.
<superm1> okay good
 * Hobbsee waves
<stefanlsd> What would be the best way of testing patches / software.  I have an intrepid system, so i normally install the old version - test to confirm the problem. I then use pbuilder to build my new version and then install the resulting .deb and check to see if the problem is fixed.   How should i be testing similair fixes for hardy and earlier?
<persia> stefanlsd: On a hardy system.  If you don't have one, and it's not a hardware-related issue, virtualisation is a good solution.  For CLI-only stuff, chroots work well.  Some people also have gotten X to work in their chroots: you might try that, but it's trickier.  For stuff that uses system services (e.g. dbus), you really want virtualisation or real hardware.
<stefanlsd> persia: i agree that the vm route works well, just bandwidth is pretty costly here still, and i dont particularly want to be keeping whole systems up to date...  are there any caveats to doing it via  pbuilder --login ?
<persia> stefanlsd: If you've a chroot already, there's no reason you can't use that to generate your virtual image.
<stefanlsd> persia: thanks. i will try using the chroot with pbuilder and see how it goes
<persia> stefanlsd: If you need a virtual environment, just copy the contents of the chroot into an empty virtual disk, add a kernel, and boot off that.
<persia> Anyone good with autoconf?  There's no configure.in with the new bluez-gnome, and I'm wondering if the patch fragment in http://paste.ubuntu.com/51200/ should work with configure.ac
<pochu> Hobbsee: which package?
<pochu> Hobbsee: sorry for that, I'll reply on the ML
<Burgundavia> is release.ubuntu.com dead for anybody else?
<Flannel> Burgundavia: its releases.
<Burgundavia> I kan spel, honest gov
<Burgundavia> hmm, intrepid folder is empty
<Flannel> they'd be on cdimage
<Flannel> wouldn't they?
<Flannel> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/intrepid/alpha-6/
<pochu> Burgundavia: it's releases, not release ;-)
<pochu> bah, Flannel already said so
<Burgundavia> yep, but previous alphas used to be on releases
<stefanlsd> Is a security update allowed to fix a bug? Or do i need to do an SRU and then the security update?
<directhex> laga, fun fact: due to the way launchpad works, mister "IT R 2.0 DAMNIT!" has 10x my karma, because he spends a lot of time on Answers giving answers of dubious value.
<laga> directhex: well, it's just karma.
<laga> directhex: or LP saw you yelling at people in #mythtv-users.
<directhex> laga, they deserve it! they're *SO STUPID* >_<
<Hobbsee> hm, only 76 packages which aren't installable.
<Burgundavia> Hobbsee: you have some work to do then. There are thousands more to put into that state
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: no, i'm on the release team.  i can't do that :)
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: i'm one of those who yells at people for uploading crack :)
<wgrant> Hobbsee: I see 79.
<wgrant> (well, http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/debcheck/ does)
<Hobbsee> wgrant: hmm.  amd64 specific ones, apparently.
 * StevenK blinks. gcc-4.2 ?
<StevenK> Right, debcheck is on crack
<RAOF> wgrant: I've managed to test my touchpad on an alpha 6 live usb - Sys->Preferences->Mouse has no touchpad tab there, either.  It doesn't look like a configuraiton problem.
<StevenK> lib{32,64}ffi4 aren't built by gcc-4.2
<wgrant> RAOF: OK, tjaalton thinks he's seen why.
<wgrant> RAOF: Maybe.
<Hobbsee> hmm, one i've uploaded to a ppa.  that won't be helping.
<RAOF> wgrant: Yay!  I'll be available to test, then.
<StevenK> wgrant: I question that 79 number.
<wgrant> StevenK: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/i386/lib64ffi4/4.2.3-2ubuntu7
<wgrant> "gcc-4.2 4.2.3-2ubuntu7 (source) in Ubuntu"
<StevenK> "i386 build of gcc-4.2 4.2.3-2ubuntu7 in ubuntu hardy RELEASE produced these files:  "
<StevenK> So why does that line say Hardy?
<wgrant> StevenK: Because it built in Hardy, probably.
<wgrant> Then was copied to Intrepid.
 * wgrant looks.
<wgrant> Yes, that's why.
<wgrant> StevenK: Why do you question the number? It seems quite clear to me.
<StevenK> It ought to have been killed, 4.2.3-2ubuntu7 is in Hardy, 4.2.4-3ubuntu2 is in Intrepid
<wgrant> StevenK: But the binary is still there.
<wgrant> StevenK: NBS, I presume.
<wgrant> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/i386/lib64ffi4 clearly shows that it's still published, so debcheck is right.
<StevenK> It isn't listed in NBS, though
<wgrant> Then NBS might be buggy.
<wgrant> Or Soyuz might be.
<wgrant> Um.
<wgrant> That's very strange.
<StevenK> wgrant: Hm?
<wgrant> How is the NBS list generated?
<wgrant> There's a bug somewhere, and it's not in debcheck.
<wgrant> Doesn't look like it's in Soyuz either.
 * Hobbsee files a removal request
 * StevenK is checking
<wgrant> Hobbsee: For?
<Hobbsee> oh dear.  this package has been kmos'd.
<Hobbsee> wgrant: kionjb
<StevenK> wgrant: I'm not sure how NBS is generated
<wgrant> StevenK: Buggily, at any rate.
<wgrant> Hm.
<wgrant> Might it be because it's only on some archs?
<StevenK> Hm, possibly, but lib32ffi4 should show up
<StevenK> W: Unable to locate package lib64ffi4
<StevenK> But my Intrepid chroot can't find it
<wgrant> I see lib32ffi4 in intrepid/amd64/universe's Packages.
<wgrant> And lib64ffi4 is in intrepid/i386/universe, as Soyuz says.
<wgrant> StevenK: ^^
<StevenK> I see that
<StevenK> I'll raise that with pitti
<wgrant> Thanks.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: can you fix ggz-grubby please?  looks like you've been one of the last people to touch it, and it doesn't install now.  Hopefully you can sync it?
<Hobbsee> (looks like you wrote the changes in the first place)
<StevenK> I did?
<Hobbsee> StevenK: i think so
<Hobbsee> StevenK: yep, you did.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ggz-grubby/+bug/230016 is for you to close when you do :)
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Requires an FFe
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 230016 in libb-size-perl "[intrepid] Rebuild with perl 5.10" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<Hobbsee> StevenK: even for stuff that does'nt build?
<StevenK> Latest source in Debian is a new upstream version
<Hobbsee> StevenK: meh.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: maybe ubuntu release should declare a standing FFe for stuff that doesn't build, and makes most sense to sync for, or something.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: i presume the changes *can* be dropped?
 * Hobbsee notes then we can boot libperl5.8 from the archive, too
 * StevenK hasn't checked yet
<Hobbsee> ah
<StevenK> Right, ggz-grubby is the last package
<Hobbsee> yep
 * wgrant would be in favour of getting things to build.
 * Hobbsee too.
<Hobbsee> preferably, stuff that has been known to debian for a while, and is fine there, rather than a rebuild of what we currently have, which may, or may not, work well.
<StevenK> The last uploader of ggz-grubby is \sh, and it needs a merge
<\sh> if that works, yes...
<StevenK> Perhaps the patch can be dropped, since it's from upstream SVN
<\sh> but ggz-grubby doesn't build on ubuntu anymore...
 * StevenK grabs the source from Debian
<\sh> nccommander wanted to take it
<Hobbsee> \sh: that's why it's on my list - it doesn't install, for one.
<\sh> Hobbsee: well, debian version doesn't build too
<\sh> and I don't have any clue how to fix it
<wgrant> Removal!
<jdstrand> stefanlsd: a -security update can only contain a security fix. other fixes need to go through SRU
<wgrant> Kill kill kill.
<wgrant> jdstrand: Unless you're Linux or Firefox...
<stefanlsd> jdstrand: thanks. you are subscribed.  Hopefully i've added enough info to the wordnet bug to get the fixes applied.
<\sh> wgrant: *eg*
<Hobbsee> StevenK, \sh: one of you file a removal request, the other remove it, then?  :)
<wgrant> \sh: Hm?
<Hobbsee> :P
<StevenK> I'll file the request
<StevenK> :-P
<\sh> Hobbsee: well....
<\sh> if I file the request, I'll be blamed again for removing a necessary package for kids or so...and then I'm named "you murder of my child" or so
 * wgrant murders \sh preemptively.
<\sh> ah that's good...now I don't need to play around with my new toys anymore...
<\sh> I can sleep now forever ... which is good... but then, I'm dead, which is bad...hmm
<jdstrand> stefanlsd: I also just read #ubuntu-hardened... is it possible that the patches were already applied inline? (this sometimes happens when people use patch/ or patches/ for showing what's applied)
<wgrant> jdstrand: Those people sound like they need... "reeducation".
<jdstrand> though the build-dep on cdbs suggests otherwise...
<jdstrand> wgrant: totally
<\sh> jdstrand: a build dep on cdbs doesn't count ,-)
 * Hobbsee wonders why hardy-proposed has later versions of packages than intrepid does.
<wgrant> Hobbsee: Because people are strange.
<\sh> because -proposed is more crackful then latest devel release?
 * \sh is missing sun-java{5,6}-plugin or ia32-sun-java{5,6}-plugin..without it, I can't even administer my server via ilo2 anymore
<stefanlsd> jdstrand: heh. they arent inline.  (shew)
<jdstrand> stefanlsd: it's a bit of an oddcase, but does sometimes happen
<jdstrand> stefanlsd: good work on bug #267067 btw :)
<stefanlsd> jdstrand: and they did build, i dont think it would of patched succesfully if they we're already in.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 267067 in wordnet "[CVE-2008-2149] wordnet 2.0, 2.1, 3 affected by multiple buffer overflows" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/267067
<jdstrand> stefanlsd: I'll take a closer look and likely push it out on Monday
<stefanlsd> jdstrand: thanks!  would be happy to get it closed.  was a lot more work than i anticipated.   :)
<stefanlsd> I have the gutsy patch ready, just need the SRU to go in first.
<Laibsch> Hi, I'm trying to build OOo3 for hardy in my PPA.  There is a build-dependency on libcups-dev so I took the files verbatim from intrepid and tried to recompile cups in the PPA first.
<wgrant> Laibsch: Try libcupsys-dev
<Laibsch> For some strange reason, it fails: https://launchpad.net/~r0lf/+archive/+build/724898
<Laibsch> OK
<Laibsch> Thanks
<Laibsch> Shoot, that means, I will have to reupload those 300MB again
<wgrant> No, not the .orig.tar.gz.
<wgrant> Unless you've done something very bad.
<jdstrand> stefanlsd: yeah-- but you'll be able to sleep better at night because of it
<jdstrand> ;)
<stefanlsd> jdstrand: hehe. yeah. i actually.  i hate having open bugs assigned to me.  I think part of the problem was i didnt really have a process. I think I have that now, so it should get easier.  (I also have the 4 different chroots!)
<jdstrand> stefanlsd: I have 18 chroots plus 20 virtual machines :P
<jdstrand> and that's just for Ubuntu
<jdstrand> actually that's not true-- 3 chroots are for Debian
<Laibsch> wgrant: Well, you are right.  But I already aborted the upload (at 75%).  Stupid mistake ;-)
<stefanlsd> jdstrand: heh. i have bandwidth issues.  (south africa).
 * jdstrand nods
<james_w> motu-release: for http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=496618 should we sync or remove the package?
<ubottu> Debian bug 496618 in viruskiller "viruskiller: Contains non-free sound and music" [Serious,Closed]
<jdstrand> stefanlsd: with the good work you've done, I recommend you take a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers
<jdstrand> stefanlsd: you'll need to demonstrate a sustained contribution, but definitely consider it :)
<james_w> bug 275131 if anyone wants to weigh in
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 275131 in viruskiller "Contains non-free data files" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/275131
<Hobbsee> james_w: i'd sync, personally.
<Hobbsee> james_w: assuming all the nonfree files are actually gone
<StevenK> So would I
<stefanlsd> jdstrand: yeah. thanks. I am working towards MOTU.   Will prob apply for U-U-C after Intrepid sometime :)
<james_w> Hobbsee: at this point I'm just trusting Debian and deciding what to do, but I would agree.
<Hobbsee> james_w: request away, then :)
<jdstrand> stefanlsd: great! keep up the good work and you can add me to your list of fans :)
<stefanlsd> jdstrand: thanks. might just CC you on my application request one day then :P
<jdstrand> great! (that's really what I was getting at ;)
 * StevenK blinks at ggz-grubby
 * Hobbsee glares at echelon
 * wgrant closes his eyes at .*
<StevenK> Way cool, ggz-grubby fail the same way
<StevenK> And now gnuradio fails with a C++ error I don't get
 * Hobbsee strikes another off the list
<Hobbsee> perhaps we need a 5-a-day for packages that don't install
 * Hobbsee wishes htere was a motu-hopeful around to help with this
<laga> i'm UUC-hopeful, but very busy ;)
<StevenK> Hobbsee: IE, "minion"
 * wgrant renames ~ubuntu-universe-contributors to ~universe-minions
<StevenK> Heh
<stefanlsd> Hobbsee: what do u need help with?
<persia> Umm.  Careful there.  Last time we tried something of the sort, there were complaints.
<Hobbsee> stefanlsd: a whole lot of 'apt-cache unmet -i'
<Hobbsee> stefanlsd: a whole lot of it is replacing ice* with the respective packages for ubuntu
<Nafallo> wgrant: you can be my minion when we meet :-)
<Hobbsee> iirc, it's replaced with webbrowser or something.
 * wgrant sends some minions after the complainants.
 * wgrant is intimidated.
<Nafallo> wgrant: in like... 3 months :-)
<stefanlsd> Hobbsee: wasnt it abrowser ?
<wgrant> abrowser | firefox
<Hobbsee> stefanlsd: probably :)
<wgrant> But they also need source changes, sometimes.
<stefanlsd> Hobbsee: ok, do you have any example debdiff up already? then i'll have a look and see if i can jump in.
<Hobbsee> stefanlsd: no - but it's just debian/control changes
<wgrant> Hobbsee: Not necessarily.
<Hobbsee> wgrant: well, normally is
<Hobbsee> anyone got any particular attachment to arpack++?
<StevenK> Ah ha.
<StevenK> I know why ggz-grubby fails to build
<StevenK> (intrepid)root@liquified:/ggz-grubby-0.0.14/games/guru-ttt# ls -lh /G*
<StevenK> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 254 Sep 27 22:50 /Guru Chess.module.dsc
<StevenK> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 257 Sep 27 22:52 /Guru TicTacToe.module.dsc
<StevenK> What is wrong with this picture?
 * persia loves whitespace
<wgrant> Um.
<StevenK> It isn't the whitespace
<wgrant> Why are they in the root?
<StevenK> Exactly
<wgrant> I smell a murder coming on.;
<persia> Oh my.
 * StevenK is sharpening his daggers
 * wgrant keeps some presharpened.
<StevenK> My daggers are fairly sharp, but that calls for some extra prep-work
 * Hobbsee die packages, die!
<wgrant> Red? Blue? Purple?
<StevenK> ggz-config, die in a large chemical fire
<wgrant> You have the power. Kill it. Kill it severely dead.
 * RainCT doesn't know what you are talking about but is getting scared *g*
<persia> RainCT: It's a package.
<RainCT> yea, figured that out
<StevenK> wgrant is trying to goad me into removing packages from the archive.
<persia> Is that not reason enough?
<StevenK> It's working.
<persia> StevenK: Are you removing packages that are in lenny, or just annoying ones?
 * wgrant can use the presharpened daggers on archive admins too.
<pochu> Hobbsee: hi, do you use B91dpkg-i to test installability? it seems to be a bit stupid and doesn't install run-time dependencies before calling 'dpkg -i', so it fails
<StevenK> persia: I've removed one so far, and it hasn't been in Debian since 2007
<persia> That counts as annoying :)
<Hobbsee> pochu: that, or another one, yes.
<Hobbsee> i think i was using another one
<persia> wgrant: I've heard a rumor that you know lots about synaptics.  Any idea why they might not be recognised at all?
<wgrant> persia: These dirty lies seem to spread well. I touched it a couple of times, and hope to care for it properly at some point.
<wgrant> persia: How undetected is it?
<pochu> Hobbsee: ah, likely B92test-pkg
<persia> Very.  dmesg shows it.  X doesn't register it.
<wgrant> persia: Pastebin your xorg log, please.
 * persia preps an affected system
<Hobbsee> pochu: that sounds familiar, yes
<pochu> Hobbsee: it seems to install dependencies and the packages, then remove the packages, and run some test suites
<Hobbsee> pochu: that's it, then.
<pochu> thanks
<stefanlsd> does anyone document these common changes?   like libkonq4 doesnt exist and you must use libkonq5 etc?
<james_w> anybody want to play a game?
<james_w> please test viruskiller from https://edge.launchpad.net/~james-w/+archive
<james_w> (or build the Debian version for yourself)
<persia> wgrant: http://paste.ubuntu.com/51251
<wgrant> james_w: The builds aren't published yet, but I'll hack URLs...
<persia> stefanlsd: Nope.  There's lots of them that nobody even notices when Debian does the work before we start autosync when a cycle opens.
<wgrant> persia: Does lshal see the touchpad?
<stefanlsd> persia: mm. just seems silly that one of us know a common answer, and i spend an hour trying to work it out kinda thing...
 * persia balks at parsing lshal output, but gnome-device-manager displays it, and is supposed to be a HAL gui.
<stefanlsd> Hobbsee: normal process for these umet dep problems?   File a bug, apply the debdiff, and subscribe sponsors?
<Hobbsee> stefanlsd: yes
<persia> The other two mice in the device work OK, just not the SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad.
<wgrant> james_w: It gives me a nice corrupt screen, just readable as asking me to press space, and hitting space causes it to segfault.
<StevenK> \o/
<james_w> wgrant: nice, thanks
<wgrant> persia: Pastebin the output of lshal, or relevant sections thereof?
 * persia tries to extract the useful bits
<persia> wgrant: http://paste.ubuntu.com/51255 Let me know if I cropped too much.
<wgrant> persia: Hmm, the difference from mine is:
<wgrant>   input.x11_driver = 'synaptics'  (string)
 * wgrant checks a few things.
<persia> So HAL is supposed to provide that?
<wgrant> I presume an FDI file is borked.
<persia> wgrant: Note that the hardware works: whether it appears seems to depend on the booted dpkg-architecture
<persia> Right.  Which package needs to be thwacked?
<wgrant> persia: Do you have /usr/share/hal/fdi/policy/20thirdparty/11-x11-synaptics.fdi?
<persia> I don't.  In that directory I only have 10-wacom.fdi
<wgrant> Erm.
<wgrant> Do you have xserver-xorg-input-synaptics actually installed?
<wgrant> 23:29:16 < wgrant> Do you have xserver-xorg-input-synaptics actually installed?
<persia> No.  It appears not to exist.  Thanks.  Now I can fix it.
<wgrant> Ah, not built on lpia?
<persia> No.
<persia> It appears that the attempt to not provide it for s390 hit me.  Thanks for the pointing.
<StevenK> How?
<wgrant> It's excluded in P-a-s, and the source's arch list, AFAICT.
<StevenK> I didn't see xserver-xorg-input-synaptics in P-a-s
<persia> Yep.  Since I have two devices that Intel claims to be lpia, and both have Synaptics touchpads, I think that's likely a bug.
<wgrant> StevenK: xfree86-driver-synaptics
<StevenK> Oh, right
<wgrant> There was a source by the binary name, and hopefully will be again soon.
<wgrant> But it's something else ATM.
 * persia is testing a build now, and will be *very* happy to have a working mouse on the D4, for which all the current mouse-like input devices don't work
<Hobbsee> darn, u-u-s is over 100 again.
 * Hobbsee kills a few
<persia> Hurrah!  Smaller UUS means better release and happier developers
<Hobbsee> wish i had removal powers, though
 * StevenK whistles innocently
<Hobbsee> StevenK: hush, lucky canonicalite :)
<Hobbsee> StevenK: besides, you have a list of bugs i'd like you to action - have you done them yet?  :)
<StevenK> Nope
<Hobbsee> aww
<persia> apt is ever so helpful.  Your network cable appears to have been knocked out.  Please try again with --fix-missing
<StevenK> AH HA!
<persia> wgrant.  That did it.  Thanks.
<StevenK> # /usr/bin/ggz-config --noregistry=/usr/share/ggz/modules/ggz-grubby --install --modfile=module.dsc --force
<StevenK> (line 476) /usr/share/ggz/modules/ggz-grubby
<StevenK> (line 478) /Guru TicTacToe.module.dsc
<wgrant> persia: Excellent.
<wgrant> StevenK: /Guru Stab.module.dsc
<StevenK> Sigh
<StevenK> sprintf(global_pathname, "%s/%s%s", global_pathname, fixedmodname, suffix);
<StevenK> Let me count why this is bad
 * wgrant eagerly awaits.
<StevenK> Isn't that going to screw up global_pathname?
<StevenK> My printf debugging shows it is
<wgrant> Um, yes.
<wgrant> Maybe.
 * Hobbsee finds another incorrect bug on the sponsorship queue
<wgrant> Depends what you mean by "screw up"
<StevenK> It seems to set global_pathname == ""
<wgrant> Not the behaviour that I would expect.
<wgrant> But I don't often do strange things like that.
<StevenK> I wouldn't either, it just reads wrong
<wgrant> StevenK: You haven't unleashed appropriate torrents of hate onto it yet?
 * Hobbsee knocks another bug off the queue
<StevenK> wgrant: I think I've fixed it, just testing it
<StevenK> (line 476) /usr/share/ggz/modules/ggz-grubby
<StevenK> (line 478) /usr/share/ggz/modules/ggz-grubby/Guru TicTacToe.module.dsc
<StevenK> HATE HATE HATE
<wgrant> Yay.
<StevenK> \sh: ggz-grubby fixed
<Hobbsee> StevenK: excellent!  You can kill libperl5.8 from NBS now, too!
<StevenK> I have to wait for the publisher, but yes
<\sh> StevenK: dude..you are a rockstar..how did you solve it?
<StevenK> \sh: I fixed ggz-config in ggz-client-libs
<\sh> grmpf.../me doesn't have a clue  about ggz-config
<\sh> but I have a clue  how to lb adobe fms edges via heartbeat and ldirector -)
<StevenK> EPARSE
<\sh> see
 * \sh is just playing with a bunch of hardware, all ubuntu powered...and I have to configure it to loadbalance...
<\sh> this is done via heartbeat and ipvs and ldirectord...with nifty workarounds
 * \sh needs to be finished with that monday morning
<pochu> Hobbsee: do you have the powers to reject meta-gnome2 which is in the unapproved queue? I missed James' comment about abiword, so you if you can reject it I'll reupload with abiword in depends.
<persia> superm1: On the bluez-gnome hildonisation patch.  It doesn't actually hildonise anything.  How do you think having the "Known Devices" list to the right of the rest of the Preferences panel would look on a high-resolution, moderate DPI screen?
<superm1> persia, just fine I think.
<persia> superm1: OK.  I'll fiddle the patch a bit more and push to bzr then.
<superm1> persia, sounds good
<persia> It should be something we can eventually upstream, which would make it even easier.
<superm1> persia, one we have this in a state we're ready to accept, definitely
<superm1> i dont see why upstream would be very critically tied to the shape of the preferences window
<persia> superm1: Right.  No point upstreaming until we know it works.
<persia> I have a fairly compelling use case too: I've two different computers on which the default applet layout is hard to view.
<nedko> how to use pbuilder with several chroots?
<leleobhz> o.0
<leleobhz> nedko: i have a script i use for use several roots
<leleobhz> ive made it for me, so have no doc :]
<leleobhz> let me paste it
<nedko> nice
<leleobhz> nedko: http://pastebin.com/f6980710a
<leleobhz> s/# Para criar as gaiolas:/# To create jails/g
<leleobhz> s/# Ooooooou/or/g
<geser> leleobhz, nedko: see also pbuilder-dist and pbuilder-dist-simple from ubuntu-dev-tools
<leleobhz> nedko: this code sucks, but can give you a idea how pbuilder can work
<leleobhz> o.0
<pochu> nedko: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto#Multiple%20pbuilders, and pbuilder-dist in the ubuntu-dev-tools package
<leleobhz> geser: i dont know this code
<leleobhz> its close of what i did
<leleobhz> but my script sucks a lot :]
<Laibsch> Does make-kpkg not work with the git sources?  After taking the debian dir from the latest intrepid package.
<nedko> i want to have several chroots for same distro and arch, can pbuilder do this?
<crevette> superm1: hello
<superm1> hi crevette
<superm1> so i'm sure you've been watching the activity floating on bluez 4.x?
<crevette> superm1: yeah
<crevette> I'm building gnome-user-share
<superm1> crevette, how are you feeling about it thus far?
<crevette> file sending and receiving doesn't not work but  it seems you're working on it
<superm1> yeah it looks like a newish obex-data-server is required.  i tried to just patch around it, but it's a bit complex
<crevette> okay
<superm1> other than that- anything else negative standing out?
<crevette> I'm don"t have input devices so I can't test that
<crevette> except wiimotes
<crevette> :p
<superm1> crevette, okay well persia and i have both tested input devices thus far, and they're looking better (after a patch to bluez-gnome to ensure it starts up in a connectable mode)
<crevette> okay
<crevette> superm1: how can I push g-u-share to your ppa ?
<superm1> crevette, it's a team PPA
<superm1> your in ~bluetooth right?
<crevette> let me check
<crevette> superm1: I joined it, but apprently approval is required
<superm1> crevette, okay for now then, just push it to your personal PPA, and i'll copy it into ~bluetooth when it finishes building
<superm1> crevette, poke Mithrandir to ack your joining
<crevette> oky docky
<crevette> superm1: https://launchpad.net/~bmillemathias/+archive
<crevette> superm1: I think the versioning of the package is wrong, right?
<superm1> of gnome-user-share?
<crevette> yep
<superm1> if it works properly on the first try, i guess that would be fine ....
<superm1> but if you've got some bugs then it will be troublesome
<superm1> you normally want a ~ppaX added
<crevette> yep
<crevette> I'll redo it
<superm1> crevette, are there any applicable patches on bluez-gnome 0.28's package on your PPA that make sense for 4.x?
<crevette> hum, let me look
<crevette> superm1: not from 0.28
<crevette> but fedora has a patch http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewvc/rpms/bluez-gnome/devel/bluetooth-sendto-ods-svn.patch?view=log
<crevette> hmm, it's for svn obex-data-server
<superm1> crevette, i was just looking for that - it's needed with these obex snapshots
<superm1> thanks :)
<superm1> crevette, i've got a few things i just pushed to the PPA re gvfs, obex-data-server and a new bluez-gnome
<superm1> should fill in the missing gaps regarding obex, but i cant verify with my phone atm
<superm1> crevette, i copied in your gnome-user-share stuff to the PPA too
<crevette> superm1: wonderful
<superm1> crevette, i you can check file sending now, hopefully it's better once all that stuff is published
<crevette> superm1: okay
<crevette> superm1: one thing ro consider is when file receiving between gnome-user-share and bluez-gnome are conficting, can we do like fedora and disable file-receiving in bluez-gnome and pull gnome-user-share as dependecy of bluez-gnome?
<crevette> s/when//
<superm1> crevette, there is no more file receiving in bluez-gnome
<superm1> so that's probably a sensible idea
<crevette> superm1: ah I didn't know
<superm1> crevette, it changed for 4.x
<crevette> you applied the fedora patch for that N
<crevette> ah
<crevette> there is a patch for bluez-gnome 0.28 in fedora to do that
<superm1> crevette, well the problem is that gnome-user-share is universe though
<superm1> so that would require some more paperwork here for the MIR
<superm1> this whole switchover is turning out way larger than i anticipated
<crevette> yeah :/
<gd515> is there a channel to help me with a linux problem ?
<uouou> hi, I was directed here after asking about installing a package with optional packages that aren't included in the .deb
<uouou> it's audacity, and I am trying to add the soundtouch libraries, specifically.. also on amd64, if that makes a difference.. did apt-get source audacity, and after ./configuring I got "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check
<crimsun> uouou: apt-get build-dep audacity
<uouou> libsoundtouch isn't in the debian/rules file though
<uouou> which is weird, because it used to be part of the main package.. I don't know if someone at some point decided that changing pitch and changing speed is the same thing? :P I do a lot of transcription, so slowing down speed while maintaining pitch is important for me
#ubuntu-motu 2008-09-28
<superm1> persia, any updates on that patch?  i'm fairly confident now on the rest of the stack (i had to write a few patches to make OBEX work again)
<persia> superm1: Sorry.  Been sleeping, and now rushing to an engagement.  Current state is http://paste.ubuntu.com/51475/
<superm1> persia, no worries.  just so long as its done sometime before !weekend, i was thinking it'd be best to have the whole suite read for ubuntu-release on monday
<superm1> ah messing with vboxes/hboxes.  i hate doing that outside of glade
<sistpoty> bddebian: oh, you're a DD now? congrats!
<LaserJock> sistpoty: that has to be the funniest blog comment I've seen in a long time
<sistpoty> LaserJock: heh... but I've only done 2 a day (I've added this to jono's blog as well *g*)
<wgrant> Hahahah
<LaserJock> lol
<sistpoty> I mean come on, I've always wondered who the "we" is in such dummy comments, and whether I consider myself part of it.
<bddebian> sistpoty: Thanks
<wgrant> I really hate the stock replies - if we need stock replies, LP should do them, and mark them specially so they don't fill the bug with crap.
<sistpoty> actually, I even think that stock replies might drive off possible contributors. it's just an unpersonal thing that's done, which neither states what you think about the bug nor where you need help from the reporter
<sistpoty> and sometimes it even sounds arrogant, like if there's an easily reproducable problem with a package and the stock reply is to check if that's still a problem with the newest version
<wgrant> Yes, that's just silly.
<sistpoty> ok, I admit that I've done this tonight as well, but that's because I *know* that the newer package did fix some segfaults and the bug was an apport bug
<wgrant> Sometimes it makes sense.
<wgrant> If it's in an uncommon situation or not normally reproducable, one often has little choice.
<wgrant> But in a lot of cases that I've seen, the bugsquader could have just installed the package and tested it right then.
<sistpoty> yes
<StevenK> Hm. I wonder if bugzilla does stock replies.
<StevenK> debbugs only does it for closing, which LP does too
<wgrant> LP does it for changelog-closes-bugs and expiry.
<sistpoty> btw.: bug #26998 and my response, and the follow-up on this *g*
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 26998 in linux-source-2.6.15 "ide-generic: load conflicts with IDE drivers (PORTS ALREADY IN USE)" [Medium,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/26998
<sistpoty> so much for bug triaging *g*
<LaserJock> sistpoty: wow
 * sistpoty heads to bed... gn8 everyone
<Hobbsee> pochu: i do have those powers.
<Hobbsee> pochu: did you test build and test install it before uploading?
<Hobbsee> hm, sistpoty..
<gaspa> slangasek: bug 269916... seems it shouldn't be removed, or am i missing something?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 269916 in libkexif "Please remove libkexif source and libkexif1, libkexif1-dev binaries from Intrepid" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/269916
<Hobbsee> gaspa: what's happening with kde3 packages, in a kde4-based archive?  Are they being kept, to run in kde4?
<Laibsch> dpkg-source does not accept -sd anymore?  How do I create .dsc and changes for upload while excluding the orig.tar.gz?
<Laibsch> I read all kinds of man-pages and googled, but I just can't find it
<persia> Laibsch: If you've an unpacked source, and an orig.tar.gz beneath, and you don't want the orig.tar.gz in changes (you always want it in the .dsc), just use debuild -S
<Laibsch> Yes, that works
<Laibsch> But I think it does a lot of unnecessary steps
<Laibsch> Can't I just use dpkg-source straight?
<Laibsch> I am trying to build openoffice.org3
<persia> Well, it does some extra stuff, but usually that stuff ought to have been done anyway, so it's just an extra check.,
<Laibsch> It overflows /tmp when using debuild -S
<Laibsch> That is the first problem I have with the extra steps
<persia> Hrm?  It oughtn't.  Could you post the source build log?
<Laibsch> The second one is that my computer is very slow where I run this
<Laibsch> Shaving off extra steps saves me time
<Laibsch> Sorry, I can't right now
<Laibsch> I'm almost out the door
<Laibsch> What does debuild -S do to build without inclusion of orig.tar.gz?
<persia> OK.  Post it when you can.  I'm fairly sure there's something odd going on in your package build that shouldn't be happening automatically.
<Laibsch> That is my question
<Laibsch> It must be possible
<Laibsch> I just don't want debuild, if possible, OK?
<Laibsch> I want to use the command straight away
<Laibsch> Whichever it is
<RainCT> 13
<persia> debuild calls dpkg-buildpackage.  dpkg-buildpackage calls dpkg-source
<RainCT> (oops)
<persia> dpkg-buildpackage also calls dpkg-genchanges
<xadzax> Uhh I fee stupid asking this here. but I could use some guidance in contricuting or being mentored by a MOTU..
<xadzax> please pm me
<persia> xadzax: Certainly not :)  This is the ideal forum for such questions, and there's no reason to hide in a pm.
<persia> xadzax: What interests you?
<xadzax> ok thanks. Well I guess I'd like to contribute in the development or packaging prcess in some way. My experience in linux/ubunut isnt the most expansive, but Im a proficient programmer in C, C++, php and such
<geser> Laibsch: use dpkg-source -b to build the new .dsc and .diff.gz and later dpkg-genchanges -sd to build the .changes file
<xadzax> I went through the packagin tutorials
<xadzax> but....now what? lol
<persia> xadzax: OK.  Well, the primary activities of MOTU are 1) fixing discovered bugs, 2) ensuring integration of selected packages (and sometimes updating these packages), and 3) occasionally packaging new stuff.
<geser> xadzax: either find something for packaging or better look at the existing packages and try fixing some bugs (there are plenty)
<persia> xadzax: So, I usually suggest someone interested in doing something find a bug, and fix it.  If you get stuck, ask here for help.
<Laibsch> geser: Thanks
<Laibsch> Just what I was looking for
<Laibsch> I figured -sd was an argument to dpkg-source
<Laibsch> which apparently it was in the past
<geser> you can pass -sd when calling dpkg-buildpackage but it get passed to dpkg-genchanges
<xadzax> hmm Well, I looked at the bytesize bugs and Im not sure what to attack. It looks like most are being addressed by others
<persia> xadzax: Well, are there any packages that you like that work particurlarly badly?
<persia> Also, release is soon, so a number of people are trying to make sure all the packages can install.  You can find some that don't with `apt-cache -i unmet`
 * sebner is wondering if Oo3 comes in time for intrepid. tentative release is now the 7th october. Though I think this release is important enough for it :)
<persia> sebner: check with calc.  I seem to remember seeing some traffic about it in #ubuntu-meeting, but don't remember the details.
<sebner> persia: kk, thx :)
<xadzax> Ahh That may be the best start with the unmet. All the apps Im using right now work fine, and I dont have enough exposure to know or install others
<xadzax> thanks perisa
<xadzax> persia
<xadzax> typing dyslexia
<xadzax> i'll start there
<persia> xadzax: Good luck, and ask here if you encounter anything with which you have questions, or need help.
<xadzax> okie dokie.
<xadzax> i can finally help. whew!
<persia> xadzax: You finally asked in the right place :)  Generally, everyone is encouraged to help, although the more you know, the more likely you will be successful.
<Laibsch> the good thing is, the more you help, the more you learn
<Laibsch> :-D
<xadzax> yeah thats how I plan to do it
<xadzax> trial by fire
<xadzax> lol
<xadzax> should I have intrepid installed to do the unment packages? I have hard 8.04
<xadzax> hadry
<xadzax> lol hardy
<xadzax> actually i dont see a development intrepid
<persia> xadzax: You'll at least want a chroot, if you aren't running intrepid either on real hardware or in a virtual environment.
<persia> For testing, having some hardware or a virtual environment running intrepid is mostly required.
<persia> (with the exception of some CLI tools that can be adequately tested in a chroot)
<xadzax> OK. Where do I dl it?
<xadzax> i see empty folders of intrepid all over
<persia> cdimage.ubuntu.com ought have the latest dailies
<persia> Alternately, you could upgrade a hardy system (update-manager -d)
<persia> For chroots, I'd recommend looking at one of the following systems
<persia> !sbuild
<ubottu> sbuild is a system to easily build packages in a clean schroot environment.  To get started with SBuild, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SbuildLVMHowto
<persia> !pbuilder
<ubottu> pbuilder is a system to easily build packages in a clean chroot environment. To get started with PBuilder, see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<xadzax> yup already have pbuilder
<ivoks> umm...
<ivoks> can we still upload to universe?
<persia> ivoks: For some of universe, and for some things.
<ivoks> i've added new features to impitool and would like to upload that :)
<ivoks> it's support for dell's servers
<persia> Specifically, be *very* careful if you're uploading anything that ends up on the images for Xubuntu, Mythbuntu, Ubuntu Studio, or Ubuntu MID.
<ivoks> hm... ipmitool? nah... :)
<persia> Also, any uploads at this point should be bugfix-only.  If you are altering UI or featuresets, it's a good idea to confirm with a member of MOTU Release.
<persia> (as otherwise they can be quite annoyed)
<ivoks> that's what i was wondering...
<ivoks> i'll contact them
<persia> ivoks: Easiest way is probably to file a freeze exception bug with all the details, and subscribe the team.  It takes two approvals for the upload.
<ivoks> thank you
<persia> ivoks: Good luck.
<persia> superm1: Patch finally cleaned up all the way, and pushed to bzr and ppa.  I've had some HW difficulties tonight, so haven't given it the testing it needs.  I'll probably be able to run through a sensible set of tests in 10-15 hours.  Apologies for the delay.
<superm1> persia, that sounds good.  given it's a UI patch testing shouldn't need to be too extensive.  i'll look this afternoon
<persia> superm1: Oh, I meant testing the entire suite against my various components, and saying something good about it in bug #274950.  You looking at the UI stuff would be great, as your display environment is probably the most different from mine.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274950 in obex-data-server "Look into switching to bluez 4.x" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274950
<superm1> persia, ah yeah, more feedback on the whole suite is indeed needed.
 * RainCT runs away from xdg-desktop-menu!! (it's manpage explains how companies can add their own menu entries o_O)
<RainCT> (*its)
 * persia still needs to get a mouse and printer some day, but should be able to hit most of the rest of the features
<superm1> persia, one thing that hasn't been but probably needs to be is an upgrade from hardy -
<superm1> since it's a third party repository, i'm not sure how to test such a thing
<superm1> dist-upgrade won't necessarily give the same behavior as update-manager wrg to Recommends i believe
<persia> superm1: Install hardy.  Add the ppa.  Run apt-get update (but don't install anything).  Run update-manager -d.
<superm1> persia, doesn't it disable third party repositories in the process though?
<persia> I think that should work, if I remember correctly.
<persia> Oh, right.  You could patch that bit out of update-manager on a one-time basis.
 * persia finds the offending bit
<persia> superm1: Just change the treatment of it around line 524 of DistUpgradeController.py
<superm1> persia, okay great thanks
<Syntux> Good day
<persia> Hmm.  Looks like ports.ubuntu.com repos get disabled by that :(  Probably needs a hook somewhere.
<persia> Anyway, time for me to recharge.
<jdong> O_o... is this the time for persia is a robot theories?
<jdong> *ducks*
<geser> nobody tried to prove or invalidate this yet? :)
<jdong> well I think the previous statement is fairly strong evidence :)
<superm1> persia, i tried it out and made some minor modifications to the patch that seemed sensible
<superm1> it'll be on the PPA & bzr to take a look
<nhandler> Is there a way to increase the size of a pbuilder chroot? I'm getting a bunch of "No space left on device" messages when I try to build a package with pbuilder.
<sebner> nhandler: do you have a seperate / partition? sounds like it gets full
<nhandler> sebner: It is in pbuilder. Does the pbuilder chroot have a set size? Or does it expand until it fills the partition?
<sebner> nhandler: /me thinks the latter
<nhandler> Ok, thanks sebner. I thought the pbuilder had a set size. I'll try and see what is filling up the partition.
<sebner> nhandler: np (if I'm right ^^)
<sebner> siretart: ahoi vlc hero :D
<siretart> sebner: hi
<siretart> sebner: vlc hero? ah 0.9.3 got accepted. great :)
<sebner> siretart: xD xD xD. of course
<james_w> huats: have you seen debian bug 500481?
<ubottu> Debian bug 500481 in wnpp "RFP: python-webkit -- python bindings for webkit" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/500481
<biz_den6140> join #ubuntu-mobile
<biz_den6140> oops
<huats> james_w: hey
<huats> james_w: yep I have seen it...
<huats> I was aiming to work on that
<huats> (in fact it is a dupplicate...)
<IntuitiveNipple> Has anyone ever experienced a buildd build where one of the package architectures (in this case, i386) misses out installing one file, but is installed for all other architectures (including the i386 package for other releases) ?
<comicinker> how do I create a dev package from the source of a library? Or how do I at least install the development files using autogen, make, make install?
<Milyardo> Dev packges would just contain library headers
<Milyardo> if its a program written in c or c++ that would mean the .h files
<IntuitiveNipple> prevu-init fails first time it is run, "tail: cannot open `debian/changelog' for reading: No such file or directory" - the wiki page doesn't offer any insights and there's no man-page. Anyone have a clue on this?
<IntuitiveNipple> solved: custom ~/.pbuilderrc commands.
#ubuntu-motu 2009-09-21
<lifeless> Laney: I'm trying to determine whats going on at the moment
<lifeless> I can't see a dup bug; I don't get a trace back
<lifeless> this is what I see: http://paste.ubuntu.com/274940/
<lifeless> I've hit Enter at the prompt
<lifeless> no browser windows start up, nor $EDITOR
<Laney> oh
<Laney> this looks like a regression
<lifeless> I'm on karmic, I have 0.78
<Laney> getDebianChangelog is breaking it
<Laney> returning nothing
<lifeless> I uploaded 0.0.2-1 to Debian last night
<lifeless> its what I want to sync :)
<Laney> it hasn't appeared on http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/s/subunit/ yet
<lifeless> latency ><
<lifeless> it was in binary NEW until 2 hours ago
<Laney> we should give a better error though
<lifeless> *an error*
<lifeless> :)
<Laney> no sync is an error ;)
<lifeless> actually, I didn't know what it was. I had to go and check the bug reports etc to be convinced it had gone wrong
<Laney> lifeless: pushed a fix to show an error in that situation
<lifeless> thanks!
<Laney> might look into the others tomorrow
<captivus> Does anyone know if Launchy has been packaged for Ubuntu yet?  If it hasn't I would like to package it myself.
<jmarsden> captivus: If apt-cache search launchy doesn't see it, and you have looked on REVU and can't see it there, then it probably isn't packaged for Ubuntu yet.
<hyperair> Zhenech: i don't think there's a way.
<Zhenech> hyperair, hmm, ok
<dholbach> good morning
<hyperair> could someone from motu-release look into bug #432900 please?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 432900 in ubuntu "[FFe] Please sync remuco (universe) 0.9.1.1+dfsg-1 from Debian Unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/432900
<micahg1> if one package replaces another, do you add conflicts as well
<Zhenech> hyperair, can you count my question as a feature request? :)
<Zhenech> I really dislike the GPL :)
<hyperair> Zhenech: well i'm not a geany developer. you should file a bug (preferably in the upstream tracker, i.e. the sf.net one)
<Zhenech> meh, ok :)
<Zhenech> hyperair, https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=2863311&group_id=153444&atid=787794
<ubottu> Error: <Bugtracker.plugin.Sourceforge instance at 0xe789e0> bug 2863311 not found
<hyperair> O_o
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<highvoltage> sistpoty | work > #ubuntu-motu :)
<highvoltage> hi sistpoty|work
<sistpoty|work> hi highvoltage
<sebner> ahoi sistpoty|work :)
<sistpoty|work> hi sebner
<sebner> sistpoty|work: would you mind helping me with a FTBFS?  https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/jesd/0.0.7-2/+build/1249011/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-i386.jesd_0.0.7-2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<sistpoty|work> sebner: hm... let me take a look
<sebner> sistpoty|work: initially it FTBFS because of missing b-d on gjdoc, so I synced new debian version but it fails. It seems to be: javahelper pulls in gcj which pulls in gcj-jdk which conflicts with gjdoc. This might be the problem
<sebner> sistpoty|work: builds locally though so I thought it's a temporaray build problem
<sistpoty|work> sebner: you could try replacing gjdoc with gcj-jdk (which also seems to provide it)
<sistpoty|work> sebner: ideally in the form gcj-jdk | gjdoc
<sebner> sistpoty|work: sounds great. I'll give it a try. thx!
<sistpoty|work> no guarantee that it'll work though :P
<sebner> sistpoty|work: better than nothing for now ;)
<sistpoty|work> heh
<wgrant> ~ubuntu-dev can now retry all builds in the rebuild test.
<sistpoty|work> \o/
<slytherin> wgrant: Does that mean there is no restriction on MOTU members? They can retry rebuilds for core packages as well?
<wgrant> Hm.
<wgrant> Apparently not.
<wgrant> There is a bug.
<wgrant> slytherin: That's the intention.
<wgrant> But it won't actually work.
<wgrant> Damn.
<slytherin> Well, we are one step closer. :-)
<slytherin> At least you intended the behaviour to be that way.
<sebner> sistpoty|work: it actually built in my ppa. not calling dh_javadoc -i though
<sistpoty|work> sebner: hm... I must admit that I've tried to avoid java packages in the past :P
<sebner> sistpoty|work: dito :P
<slytherin> sebner: do you still need help with that FTBFS?
<bdrung> persia, TheMuso: ping
<sebner> slytherin: sure :) any ideas?
<slytherin> sebner: first is that you should request for javatools sync. :-)
<sebner> sistpoty|work: things might change. Even "EinfÃ¼hrung in die Programmierung" uses Java :D (better than C in any chase)
<slytherin> sebner: second is more detailed. Someone will need to look at the package and make use of standard binaries (javadoc instead of gjdoc) so you can build using any JDK/JRE combo.
<sebner> slytherin: at least I can start with the sync request ^^ thx for your help
<RainCT> sebner: /me is doing C++ :)
<slytherin> sebner: Do you have any idea why is there a build dep on gjdoc?
<sebner> slytherin: where? javatools or jesp?
<sebner> RainCT: hahaha! poor you
<slytherin> sebner: jesd
<RainCT> (and the teacher rocks, he uses every change he has to laugh at MS/Bill Gates :P)
<sebner> slytherin: to fix FTBFS in debian:   * Add dependency on gjdoc; dh_javadoc is no longer in default-java
<slytherin> sebner: well, dh_javadoc is not part of jdk. I am checking if javahelper uses a specific javadoc alternative for dh_javadoc.
<sebner> slytherin: kk
<RainCT> lifeless: so what's the problem with bug 433706?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 433706 in ubuntu-dev-tools "upstream product 'does not use launchpad as its bug tracker'" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/433706
<Laney> you have to report bugs on the ubuntu packages
<Laney> and not on lp/u-d-t
<Laney> s/packages/package/
<lifeless> RainCT: so there is an upstream product
<lifeless> RainCT: which has bugs, code hosting etc
<lifeless> its using LP for hosting, it should accept bugs in LP
<lifeless> this is separate from bugs in the distro
<lifeless> e.g.
<RainCT> Yeah, the project is used for code hosting, but bugs are disabled because we do everything in /ubuntu/+source/u-d-t
<Laney> I don't know if it makes sense for native packages to have separate bugs
<lifeless> it does
<lifeless> if someone packages it in Debian, or RedHat
<lifeless> bugs there are not Ubuntu bugs but they are still ubuntu-dev-tools bugs :)
<Laney> they still work on ubuntu/u-d-t
<Laney> just seems like it would introduce more bookkeeping
<lifeless> Laney: no, they don't
 * RainCT agrees with Iain
<lifeless> if they're packaging it somewhere else [so that folk collaborating with ubuntu can do ubuntu tasks on their favourite os]
<lifeless> then the bugs they run into may not exist on Ubuntu at all
<RainCT> then they can fix it and file a merge request
<lifeless> I'm not suggesting 'every bug you get should be in the upstream product'
<lifeless> RainCT: but _where_ would they record the bug?
<slytherin> sebner: looks more complicated than that. javahelper from Debian uses dh_javadoc which is only present in gjdoc.
<Laney> lifeless: is there any precedent?
<Laney> what does (e.g.) devscripts doO?
<Laney> do*
<lifeless> devscripts is debian native
<Laney> exactly
<RainCT> lifeless: and ubuntu-dev-tools is Ubuntu native :)
<lifeless> so this problem exists there
<lifeless> there is nowhere that a bug in devscripts can be discussed that is 'in the upstream bugtracker' *if the bug doesn't also display on Debian native*
<Laney> I don't think people would reject such bugs
<Laney> we can put a link on the upstream product to the place to file bugs
<lifeless> shrug, I don't particularly care. I don't see having an upstream face as adding any daily bookkeeping - its not as if you'd need to shuffle every bug around
<lifeless> or any for that matter
<Laney> I suspect we'd just get bugs appearing randomly in both places
<lifeless> I think its extremely weird to have an upstream presence in launchpad, host code, and *not* use the bug tracker
<sebner> slytherin: yep, pretty annoying. We'll have to wait for our java expert geser ;)
<Laney> if I were doing it I'd probably have the branch under ~ubuntu-dev tbh
<lifeless> I suggest you move your branches to lp:~group/ubuntu/karmic/ubuntu-dev-tools
<slytherin> sebner: you can meanwhile file a bug against javahelper in Debian.
<lifeless> if all you want is codehosting
<lifeless> That said, i think it would be a mistake, upstream products are useful things to have; they let you separate out packaging issues and developmental issues, etc etc etc
<lifeless> if you want precedent, see upstart
<geser> sebner: hu? since when I'm a java expert? I try to avoid java when possible
<lifeless> gnight
<sebner> geser: really? I see so many java uploads from you
<Laney> geser: do you have time to look at bug 433715
<sebner> Seems that everyone tends to avoid java *haha*
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 433715 in ubuntu-dev-tools "requestsync -e <package> errors" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/433715
<Laney> ?
<geser> sebner: I justed fixed some java FTBFS
<RainCT> (As a side note, when I first looked at ubuntu-dev-tools I was also suprised that the upstream project didn't accept bugs, but as you can see I'm now pretty happy with how it's working, and not having two places to look at and subscribe to)
<geser> sebner: on that count you should be now a C++ expert :)
<sebner> geser: hahaha
<Laney> RainCT: Do you want to wontfix it?
<Laney> I think it's an interesting point, and we can reconsider if we run into problems
<Laney> but for now I'm happy with how it is
<RainCT> Laney: ihmo it's invalid because it isn't a bug in the software :P
<RainCT> and if sb isn't happy with it, the right place is the ML
<Laney> maybe edit the project description to point to bugs.lp/u-d-t
<lifeless> I would have filed it upstream... but I couldn't.
<Laney> lifeless: thanks for your report though
<lifeless> https://edge.launchpad.net/upstart <- precedent page :P
<RainCT> lifeless: that is actively used by other distributions, though :)
<lifeless> another really annoying thing about not having an upstream tracker is that you can't [easily] file bugs of a wishlist etc nature through the web now
<Laney> all bugs which you would file against an upstream product are suitable against the package
<slytherin> sebner: have you already tried simply removing gjdoc dependency?
<lifeless> Laney: you'll need to educate folk about that; its not going to fit the mental model folk have, I suspect ;) - see RainCT's comment about his first encounter.
<lifeless> You should at least disable all the bug tasks open upstream
<sebner> slytherin: it'll FTBFS since dh_javadoc is called
<Laney> Yeah this is why I've spoken for adding some explanatory text
<RainCT> I've added a line to the description pointing to the bugs page.
<lifeless> I really must go; tired - sorry.
<slytherin> sebner: jesd doesn't even build a -doc package, I am not sure why javadoc will be called.
<Laney> bye, and thanks for your input
<Laney> RainCT: You typoed ;)
<lifeless> my pleasure
<RainCT> cya lifeless
<Laney> urgh, weird
<ScottK> lifeless: If something in ubuntu-dev-tools is useful in Red Hat, then it shouldn't be in ubuntu-dev-tools.
<Laney> why are only some of the fields editable inline?
<lifeless> ScottK: requestsync is useful to an upstream that develops on red hat
 * lifeless is really really really gone
 * ScottK doesn't understand that a bit.  See you later.
<sebner> slytherin: ACK, but the resulting binary is half the size as with dh_javadoc (It builds with gcj-jdk | gcjdoc but doesn't call dh_javadoc)
<RainCT> uhm.. LP has "Bugs are tracked:" and "Remote project:" options
<Laney> it would be cool if it supported redirecting
<RainCT> why doesn't writing launchpad.net/ ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-dev-tools there work :/
<slytherin> sebner: Debian package looks faulty. Check this - http://packages.debian.org/sid/all/libesd-java/filelist There are no javadocs.
<sebner> slytherin: I'll check my binaries which one is the right one
<sebner> slytherin: http://paste.ubuntu.com/275236/
<sebner> slytherin: is your link the really really actual version one?
<sebner> slytherin: seems -2 is also b0rken in Debian. -1 version is http://paste.ubuntu.com/275238/
<slytherin> sebner: he he, so file bug against jesd. :-P
 * RainCT glances at sebner 
<sebner> slytherin: yep but for now I upload a jesd version that (at least) builds and the file content is still the same as Debian ;)
<moldy> hi
<sebner> RainCT: ~~~
<slytherin> sebner: That is find.
<slytherin> fine
<moldy> if my package requires a dbus configuration file in /etc/dbus-1/system.d in order to work, what is the correct way to install this file=
<moldy> ?
<sebner> slytherin: :), also thx for your help =)
<slytherin> sebner: welcome
<slytherin> moldy: is the file part of your package?
<moldy> slytherin: yes
<RainCT> moldy: if autotools/distutils/whatever doesn't install it, dh_install is probably the best/easiest option
<slytherin> moldy: dh_install
<moldy> RainCT: i don't if/how distutils can install stuff to /etc
<RainCT> I think it has an option to install stuff wherever you want
<RainCT> moldy: data_files
<RainCT> moldy: there you've got an example http://paste.ubuntu.com/275249/
<moldy> RainCT: does that work for /etc? how?
<moldy> RainCT: as far as i see, it uses some "prefix" which is usually /usr
<RainCT> moldy: look at the 3th item there, ('../etc/firefox-3.0/pref/',
<moldy> RainCT: ok, i see that, but is this really the right way of handling this?
<hyperair> 3rd!
<RainCT> hyperair: of course, sorry :)
<hyperair> ;-)
<sebner> RainCT: Am I still needed? xD
<RainCT> sebner: nah, I was just glancing *g*
 * sebner hides
<sebner> RainCT: git push :P
<RainCT> sebner: patches from you are also welcome, btw! :P
<sebner> RainCT: I'm sorry but the use of C and js doesn't really invite me :P
<RainCT> sebner: oh well, just JavaScript should be enough for most UI stuff
<sebner> RainCT: we need core stuff aka zeitgeist :P
<moldy> RainCT: i fear that this will break when installing the package in setups that don't follow the usual filesystem layout
<moldy> RainCT: e.g. buildout, to name just one example
<james_w> stochastic: hey, around?
<RainCT> moldy: Maybe ask in #python, I don't really use distutils much myself
<moldy> RainCT: ok, thank you
<moldy> slytherin: i'm sorry, but i don't quite understand how to use dh_install to install a single line into place -- can you give me a pointer?
<hyperair> moldy: man dh_install
<moldy> hyperair: i have read that, but i fear that i havn't quite understood it :(
<moldy> hyperair: the text says that each line should list a file and a destination directory, but the example seems to contradict that
<hyperair> ?
<sebner> moldy: what's the error message?
<moldy> hyperair: from the example: "usr/include"
<hyperair> moldy: the destination is optional
<hyperair> moldy: if the destination is unspecified, it means just copy the said path into debian/package/path
<moldy> hyperair: umm, so the example package actually installs the directory usr/include?
<hyperair> yes
<moldy> sebner: none yet, havn't run anything yet
<hyperair> and everything inside
<moldy> hyperair: hmm, ok.
<sebner> moldy: well, try it out and we'll help you then ;)
<hyperair> moldy: dh_install basically copies stuff $(CURDIR)/<path from .install> or $(CURDIR)/debian/tmp/<path from .install> into debian/package/<destination path, if specified or original path>
<bddebian> Heya gang
<moldy> ok, it seems to actually work, i was just confused by the documentation. thank you.
<hyperair> np
<hyperair> the documentation does seem a little vague
<moldy> it should maybe give a trivial example first before assuming stuff :)
<hyperair> hmm no.. the description is just vague
<hyperair> rather, it didn't mention that the destination is optional
<moldy> yep. still, an example like "some.file /some/dir" would have made it easier for me
<hyperair> well manpages usually have examples stuck at the bottom
<zookos> Morning folks! (UTC-6)
<hyperair> good night zookos (UTC+8)
<hyperair> ;-)
<zookos> :-)
 * hyperair wonders if any motu-release member is around
<sistpoty|work> hyperair: what's up?
<hyperair> sistpoty|work: bug #432900
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 432900 in ubuntu "[FFe] Please sync remuco (universe) 0.9.1.1+dfsg-1 from Debian Unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/432900
<sebner> sistpoty|work: we still need another one for mupen64plus btw
<sistpoty|work> sebner: yes, saw it ;)
<hyperair> sistpoty|work: and the bug #433813
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 433813 in tangerine "[FFe] Please sync tangerine (universe) 0.3.2.2-1 from Debian Unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/433813
<sistpoty|work> hyperair: remuco: see commenbt
<sistpoty|work> -b
<sistpoty|work> hyperair: regarding tangerine, can you ask seb128 for a statement? (this looks gnomeish to me ;))
<hyperair> okay
<sebner> sistpoty|work: I've read upstream that tangerine 3.0 is really pretty b0rken, so I'd give motu ack
 * sistpoty|work prefers to delegate what can be delegated *g*
<sebner> sistpoty|work: heh, I'm wondering where the java stuff moves. *HRHR*
<hyperair> sistpoty|work: i'll admit i haven't tested remuco intensively yet. nor reproduced said bug. however, remuco 0.9.0 has been removed from archive. i think you can't really get worse than not being present at all, acn you? =p
<hyperair> sebner: seb128 acked it. could you upload it then? =)
<sistpoty|work> hyperair: it could wipe all files when you install it? :P
<hyperair> sistpoty|work: okay, i'll guarantee it won't do that =)
<sebner> hyperair: nah, I can give MOTU ACK, second  -release ack is necessary and then sync
<Laney> no it's not
<hyperair> ?
<sistpoty|work> sebner: delegates have full authority to ack/rej the entire FFe
<Laney> seb128 can ack desktop FFes
<sebner> ah !
<hyperair> meaning?
<sebner> sistpoty|work: nice delegate ;)
<Laney> meaning go ahead
<hyperair> ah
 * hyperair updates pbuilder
<Laney> btw there was a package which could rm -rf / in its postinst recently ;)
<Laney> i'd say that is worse than nothing
<hyperair> heh. that *is* bad
<sistpoty|work> oh, nice
<hyperair> which package was that?
<Laney> dunno
<hyperair> and was anyone affected?
<Laney> DktrKranz dealt with the SRU
 * hyperair really needs to get round to switching to cowbuilder instead of pbuilder
<hyperair> the tarballing will drive me nuts someday =.=
<Laney> sbuild on lvm is pretty sexy
<hyperair> hmm
<hyperair> maybe i should look into that sometime
<hyperair> it looks quite hard to set up though
<Laney> nope, it's easy with mk-sbuild-lv
<Laney> you should use an apt-cacher though as it doesn't do that
<hyperair> meh damnit
<loic-m> Would a MOTU-release member ba able to ACK bug #434078 ?
<loic-m> s/ba/be
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 434078 in gmameui "[FFE] Karmic: Please sync gmameui 0.2.11-2 with Debian unstable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/434078
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, Heya!! Any news on the nginx issue?
<loic-m> (There's at least two things worth having since it will be Ubuntu users first contact with the package)
<v0lksman> can I ask general packaging questions here or is there a better channel?
<Laney> here's good
<v0lksman> cool...I'm using debuild -i -us -uc to build a package upgrade.  I set DEBEMAIL and DEBFULLNAME but lintian complains that changed-by-name-missing or is malformed...Did I miss something?
<stochastic> james_w I am now, what's up?
<sebner> v0lksman: post your changelog somewhere
<james_w> stochastic: I was slightly confused, so my question is no longer needed.
<sebner> v0lksman: pastbin even
<stochastic> james_w okay.
<james_w> stochastic: however, I'm still interested if you made any progress on getting jack in to main
<stochastic> james_w nothing recently, I've had my hands full with work, but the required steps are being made slowly
<james_w> cool
<DktrKranz> Laney: yup, it was "slack", funny :)
<v0lksman> sebner: ah ha!  http://dpaste.com/96360/
<sebner> v0lksman: problem found: <user@localhost>   ;)
<sebner> Laney: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/16624004/slack_0.14.1-2_0.14.1-2ubuntu1.diff.gz
<v0lksman> sebner: yep...so I changed my DEBEMAIL env var after running uupdate....would uupdate have used the DEBEMAIL value instead when updating the changelog or is there another step I need?
<sebner> v0lksman: either do a fresh uupdate or change it manually in your changelog
<v0lksman> sebner: cool..thanks for the help!
<sebner> welcome
<loic-m> Thanks a lot sistpoty|work!
<sistpoty|work> loic-m: you're welcome
<sebner> sistpoty|work: uhuhuhuhu, another gamy gamy to test :D
<sistpoty|work> heh
<loic-m> btw, for another bug (mupen64plus), if a sync from Debian is also a NEW, do I have to file a n-p or some other bug in addition to the sync FFE?
<v0lksman> hrm...tried a fresh uupdate with DEBEMAIL var set correctly and it still wants to put my localuser@localhost in changelog...
<sebner> v0lksman: where did you set DEBEMAIL?
<v0lksman> .bashrc then opened a new shell
<v0lksman> when I echo it it is set correctly
<sebner> v0lksman: did you do a source .bashrc?
<sebner> v0lksman: "source .bashrc"
<sistpoty|work> loic-m: no, the sync/FFe is all that's needed
<v0lksman> sebner: yep...still no go
<v0lksman> uupdate --upstream-version 0.15.7 ../tomboy-0.15.7.tar.gz
<v0lksman> that's the command I issue
<loic-m> sistpoty|work: thanks. So I just need to stalk an archive admin?
<sistpoty|work> loic-m: yes, and get another +1 ;)
<sebner> v0lksman: post your bashrc somewhere
<Laney> echo $DEBEMAIL
<v0lksman> $ echo $DEBEMAIL  $ v0lksman69@gmail.com
<v0lksman> http://dpaste.com/96367/  these lines are present in .bashrc
<sebner> v0lksman: write "export" before them
<Laney> you can also set them in ~/.devscripts
<v0lksman> uhg...palm to face...
<hyperair> sistpoty|work: remuco-rhythmbox works fine (doesn't crash rhythmbox) here.
<sistpoty|work> hyperair: that's good!
<v0lksman> that works a bit better... :)
<hyperair> sistpoty|work: also the banshee one looks fine.
<hyperair> sistpoty|work: could you ack it then? =)
<sistpoty|work> hyperair: already on it
<sebner> v0lksman: did you forgot the "export" and does it work now?
<v0lksman> sebner: yep...silly mistake...works like a charm now... thanks again!
<sebner> v0lksman: heh, glad to hear it's working now :)
<hyperair> sistpoty|work: thanks =)
<hyperair> sistpoty|work: do i need another ack after that?
<sistpoty|work> hyperair: yes
<hyperair> okay
 * sistpoty|work heads home now... cya
<loic-m> Thanks a lot sebner
<sebner> loic-m: welcome
<sebner> loic-m: you stell need another -release ACK though
<loic-m> sebner: you're not?
<loic-m> right, m-r is only 5 ppl
<sebner> loic-m: you normally need 2 -realease ACKs and a MOTU which sponsors it
<loic-m> ok, I understand now
<\sh> ScottK: we are going the way of opensuse buildservice....more packages, less quality and drive by uploader...
<\sh> and why the hell does mr. schily has it's own getline method...
<ScottK> \sh: I agree.
<\sh> anyways going home
 * hyperair wonders if anyone from motu-release is around
<fabrice_sp> Hey, I'm just looking for a MOTU to ack bug #416262 :-)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 416262 in aptoncd "Sync aptoncd 0.1.98+bzr112-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/416262
<fabrice_sp> this sync would solve bug #272509
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 272509 in aptoncd "APTonCD crashes" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/272509
<dhillon-v10> andv: hi how are you
<nicklas_> hello, are there any reposes you can add except philip5 s that has cutting edge software?
<bipolar> Whats the best way to request a package sync with sid? Specificly, sid has version 1.0.0 of KMyMoney2 vs karmic's 0.9.3
<JontheEchidna> bipolar: I'm working on 1.0.1. We can't sync the package since we no longer have aRts (we have to disable that in debian/rules) and KMyMoney has asked us to skip directly to 1.0.1 since 1.0.0 had a bad bug
<JontheEchidna> I'll finish up the feature freeze exception later today
<bipolar> JontheEchidna: ah! good to know! thanks!
<JontheEchidna> yup, no problem :)
<bdrung> persia, TheMuso: ping
<hyperair> fta: xulrunner-1.9.3 has been consistently segfaulting firefox-3.7 from all versions 0918 onwards
<fta> works for me
<hyperair> hmm =\
<fta> do you have a proper stack trace?
<hyperair> no i don't
<hyperair> what arch are you on?
<fta> please install ff/xul -dbg and try to get one
<fta> both 32 and 64
<hyperair> okay
 * hyperair will do that tomorrow
<funkyHat> I'm looking for a page about updating a package to a newer version (new version is not in debian)
<funkyHat> (I know the package probably won't get accepted for Karmic at this stage, this is for my own use/practice)
<micahg> funkyHat: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete#Creating%20and%20Using%20a%20debian/watch%20File
<funkyHat> micahg: thanks :)
<funkyHat> How do I remove a patch (this package is using quilt)?
<funkyHat> Can I just remove the patch from debian/patches?
<funkyHat> Or even just remove the line from debian/patches/series
<sebner> funkyHat: you can comment it out with "#"
<sebner> funkyHat: but if the patch is not needed anymore remove it
<funkyHat> sebner: not needed, as far as I can tell. Can I just remove debian/patches altogether?
<sebner> funkyHat: if this is the only patch, yes. mind also remove the stuff from control and rules file
<c_korn> how can I fix those warning with g++ ? passing -Wl,--as-needed to it did not help: http://pastebin.com/d59158253
<Davedan> is there a tutorial on how to write init script for daemon?
#ubuntu-motu 2009-09-22
<Darxus> Is this an appropriate place to ask for help on azureus from karmic giving me an error on "debuild -S" of: "You must specify a valid JAVA_HOME or JAVACMD!"  Google hasn't helped.
<Darxus> Impressively queit for 220 people.
<bdrung> persia, TheMuso: ping
<c_korn> Darxus: do you have a java jdk installed ?
<bdrung> Darxus: you could go to #debian-java and ask blackxored
<dhillon-v10> hi andv
<Darxus> Huh.  Maybe not.  Thanks.
<Darxus> Nope, I do have the jdk installed.
<Darxus> However, I had not done "apt-get build-deps azureus" :/
<Darxus> Er, build-dep.
<Darxus> Uploaded my first debdiff and subscribed ubuntu-universe-sponsors!
<c_korn> Darxus: what bug ?
<Darxus> c_korn: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/azureus/+bug/428514
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 428514 in azureus "Azureus crashes both openjdk and sun java." [Undecided,New]
<Darxus> It's a bug in both java implimentations, but my patch avoids the bug by using a command line option to skip JIT compiling of the problematic part.
<c_korn> Darxus: does the current package in karmic have a patch system ?
<c_korn> (run what-patch in the source tree)
<Darxus> c_korn: Thanks, I was wondering how to tell - the relevant docs don't say.
<c_korn> Darxus: oh, forget about it
<Darxus> c_korn: ?
<c_korn> I thought the wrapper was outside the debian directory
<c_korn> so you do not need a patch anyway
<c_korn> but your changelog file is wrong.
<Darxus> :/
<Darxus> How?
<c_korn> 1. explain what you change and why you did it (not only tell it fixes a bug)
<Darxus> Ah.
<Darxus> I was trying to mimic other changelog entries.
<c_korn> 2. Use (LP: #428514) to indicare that the bug was closed
<c_korn> the Closes statement is used by the debian BTS
<Darxus> Just those two changes to the changelog?
<c_korn> lintian may also complain that Darxus is not your full name (not sure about this one. it does at least complain if the maintainer is not a full name)
<Darxus> I saw mention that lintian was running.
<Darxus> With no error.
<Darxus> That's an annoying requirement.
<Darxus> -XX:CompileCommand=exclude,com/aelitis/net/udp/uc/impl/PRUDPPacketHandlerImpl\$5,runSupport
<Darxus> How should I refer to that?  Something other than "Commandline to prevent compliation of problematic thing."
<c_korn> Darxus: why does the application crash without that line ?
<Darxus> c_korn: It's a bug in the java implimentations.
<Darxus> When they try to JIT compile that bit, they crash.
<Darxus> It's not a bug in azureus.
<Darxus> It's not azureus that crashes.  It's java.
<c_korn> Darxus: ok, I do not know how detailed the motus want to have the changelog entry.
<c_korn> but it should at least mention that.
<Darxus> Mention that it's a bug in java?
<Darxus> What I want is a word to replace the word "thing".
<Darxus> What is "com/aelitis/net/udp/uc/impl/PRUDPPacketHandlerImpl$5"?
<c_korn> Workaround to prevent a crash caused by a bad java implementation. The workaround
<c_korn> grr, pressed enter too early.
<lifeless> so
<lifeless> wearing a MOTU hat
<lifeless> I'd want to see a bug report linked there
<lifeless> much more useful than handwaving
<lifeless> e.g.
<lifeless> 'Workaround JIT crash in openJDK6 <https://openjdk.dev.java.net/bugs/12345>'
<Darxus> Looks like the word I was looking for was "class".
<c_korn> Darxus: the crash is not limited to openjdk6 but also occurs in suns implementation, does it ?
<Darxus> lifeless: I submitted a bug report to sun, they didn't reply.  I also submitted a bug against open jdk (which shares the problem), and that's linked to in the bug that I'm going to mention as "(LP: #428514)".
<Darxus> Okay?
<lifeless> openjdk is suns implementation :)
<Darxus> c_korn: Yes.
<Darxus> Um.
<lifeless> bug 428514
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 428514 in azureus "Azureus crashes both openjdk and sun java." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/428514
<c_korn> lifeless: you know what I mean :)
<Darxus> It crashes the java in both  packages openjdk-6-jre and sun-java6-jre.
<lifeless> ok
<lifeless> so bug 380378 claims that sun-java6-jre doesn't crash it?
<lifeless> is that a stale comment or something?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 380378 in openjdk-6 "vuze crashes after upgrade on ubuntu 8.10 -> 9.04" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/380378
<lifeless> ok, so good work on the bug report in openjdk
<lifeless> I think you may want a similar one on sun-java6-jre
<lifeless> and they probably need to be forwarded upstream, but that is a separate problem
<lifeless> [one I encourage you to tackle]
<Darxus> lifeless: Does it actually say that (that sun-java6-jre doesn't crash it)?
<Darxus> I think it says I how I tried switching to sun-java6-jre, but not that I ever confirmed it worked.  Because it didn't.
<lifeless> Darxus: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openjdk-6/+bug/380378/comments/3
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 380378 in openjdk-6 "vuze crashes after upgrade on ubuntu 8.10 -> 9.04" [Undecided,New]
<Darxus> lifeless: Ah yes.  I don't know.  They both crashed on me.
<ScottK> RoAkSoAx: Not yet.  Sorry.
<Darxus> lifeless: I did submit a bug directly to sun via the url included in the crash log.
<Darxus> I'll add a bug against the sun-java6-jre package.
<lifeless> Darxus: did you get a url for the sun bug?
<lifeless> or was it some fire and forget thing ?
<Darxus> lifeless: I got nothing from them :(
<lifeless> the main point is to let someone else pick it up and run with it later
<lifeless> so if there is no url then they have to find you and ask to figure out whats going on
<Darxus> Yeah, well, I don't even have a way to follow up on it with Sun.
<Darxus> Somebody in #bittorrent said you basically need a contract with Sun for that kind of support :/
<lifeless> what url did you file the ticket at ?
<Darxus> lifeless: What ticket?
<lifeless> the one at sun that you got no response for
<Darxus> # If you would like to submit a bug report, please visit:
<Darxus> #   http://java.sun.com/webapps/bugreport/crash.jsp
<Darxus> I submitted it there.
<Darxus> It's in all java crash logs.
<Darxus> Huh, azureus does use quilt.
<Darxus> Finally uploaded a debdiff with the improved changelog entry.
<lifeless> did you end up at  http://bugreport.sun.com/bugreport/start_form.jsp  ?
<Darxus> lifeless: No, I clicked I am an end user, not a developer, so I ended up at http://bugreport.sun.com/bugreport/hotspot_enduser_form.jsp
<nicklas_> if i have added a ppa repos from launchpad, is it possible to remove that and go back to the package versions you had before updating?
<Darxus> nicklas_: Yes.  Everything is possible.
<lifeless> Darxus: ok; so is there perhaps a bug report in the azureus bugtracker?
<Darxus> lifeless: Perhaps.
<lifeless> or that the package on that you plan to forward upstream?
<nicklas_> Darxus: you dont happen to know how?
<Darxus> nicklas_: I don't think this is an appropriate channel.
<nicklas_> Darxus: oh
<Darxus> nicklas_: I could be wrong.  Download the .deb from the archive and dpkg -i it.
<Darxus> lifeless: What?
<nicklas_> Darxus: ouch, then you have to downgrade every package manually :-S
<Darxus> nicklas_: I didn't say that.  Check out apt pinning.  I think you should be able to coax it into doing a massive downgrade to only what's on the official archives.
<zooko> Good evening folks.  (UTC-6)
<Darxus> How do I add a package that a bug applies to on launchpad?
<Darxus> Doh, found it.
<Darxus> "There is no bug supervisor for Sun Java. This means that there is nobody upstream we can notify about this issue."  hah
<Darxus> Oh, hmm, I need an "also affects package" not "also affects project".
<Darxus> Ah, the "also affects distribution" link works.
<Darxus> So I added sun-java6 to the openjdk bug I created, attached the sun java crash log, and then decided that was totally the wrong thing to do :/
<Darxus> But It's my bed time.
<Darxus> Thanks for your help.
<nicklas_> ( . Y . )
<dholbach> good morning
<mruiz> hi dholbach !
<dholbach> hi mruiz
<mruiz> I'm getting the following error during the building process: configure.ac:1335: error: AC_SUBST: `libdir exec_prefix prefix' is not a valid shell variable name . Ideas ?
<quentusrex> Can anyone help me debug this error:
<quentusrex> dh_builddeb
<quentusrex> 	dpkg-deb --build debian/freeswitch ..
<quentusrex> dpkg-deb: building package `freeswitch' in `../freeswitch_1.0.4+repack4-0ubuntu14925.3_amd64.deb'.
<quentusrex> dpkg-deb: conffile `/opt/freeswitch/conf/vars.xml' does not appear in package
<quentusrex> dh_builddeb: command returned error code 512
<MTecknology> quentusrex: You still should have used pastebin - with the whole log
<MTecknology> ;)
<fabrice_sp> Hi dholbach. Hi mruiz
<mruiz> fabrice_sp, hi
<dholbach> hey fabrice_sp!
<fabrice_sp> mruiz, did you tried to regenerate the autoconf files?
<mruiz> fabrice_sp, can you guide me ?
<fabrice_sp> run aclocal, autoconf and automake
<mruiz> fabrice_sp, under the src directoy ?
<quentusrex> MTecknology: there is a simple explaination...
<quentusrex> the rest of the build process works...
<quentusrex> part of the builddeb isn't finding something...
<fabrice_sp> quentusrex, do you try to install a conf file?
<MTecknology> quentusrex: details help though :) - I can't really help you - just suggestions
<fabrice_sp> mruiz, in the root directory of the package (in general)
<mruiz> fabrice_sp, http://paste.ubuntu.com/275687/
<quentusrex> yes, I'm trying to install conffiles.
<quentusrex> I have that particular conf file listed in both the *.install file and the .conffile
<fabrice_sp> quentusrex, you should have it only in .conffile
<fabrice_sp> mruiz, it seems like a broken autoconf... It sometimes happens
<quentusrex> thanks fabrice_sp
<fabrice_sp> yw
<mruiz> fabrice_sp, then what I should do ?
<fabrice_sp> mruiz, directly patch the configure.ac file... Do upstream provide an update?
<fabrice_sp> sorry: no better idea
<fabrice_sp> have to run... Bye
<quentusrex> What is the largest package you guys can remember seeing?
<quentusrex> debian/ubuntu package...
<quentusrex> 300MB?
<_ruben> quentusrex: -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  595M 2009-08-07 13:05 ./universe/i/ia32-libs/ia32-libs_2.2ubuntu18.1.tar.gz
<quentusrex> _ruben: I'll have that beat soon...
<quentusrex> I'm at 450M with only 3 of the language prompts packaged, and there are 12 language sets
<quentusrex> for this phone system...
<quentusrex> I'm actually working hard to get it built into much smaller packages...
<_ruben> jikes
<quentusrex> about 105M per language set...
<quentusrex> plus about 75M for music on hold...
<quentusrex> check out 'freeswitch'
<_ruben> wouldnt one lang per package not be nicer? i doubt most ppl would need more than 1 or 2 languages
<quentusrex> it's a great telephony system.
<_ruben> i know it by name
<quentusrex> awesome...
<quentusrex> do you use it?
<_ruben> we use asterisk at work
<quentusrex> aah
<quentusrex> does that work for you?
<_ruben> usually ;)
<_ruben> its configs are nasty though
<quentusrex> take a look at the freeswitch configs...
<_ruben> luckily i dont have to mess with them that often (mosty done by a cow-orker)
<quentusrex> lol
<quentusrex> any idea what could cause this packaging issue?
<quentusrex> dh_builddeb
<quentusrex> 	dpkg-deb --build debian/freeswitch ..
<quentusrex> dpkg-deb: building package `freeswitch' in `../freeswitch_1.0.4+repack4-0ubuntu14925.3_amd64.deb'.
<quentusrex> dpkg-deb: conffile `/opt/freeswitch/conf/vars.xml' does not appear in package
<quentusrex> I've tried searching for the issue online...
<quentusrex> but haven't found any possible solutions...
<quentusrex> I know the file is in debian/tmp/opt/freeswitch/conf/vars.xml
<quentusrex> but can't figure out why it is refering to /opt/....
<_ruben> relative versus absolute paths was one the things i was gonna mention
<quentusrex> yeah... but I don't see anything pointing to that...
<quentusrex> I just did a: grep -r "/opt/freeswitch" ./
<quentusrex> and it turned up nothing...
<_ruben> probably make install isnt honoring INSTALLDIR variable properly or something similar
<quentusrex> hmm
<quentusrex> well, there is nothing in /opt/
<quentusrex> on my build machine...
<quentusrex> I g2g
<quentusrex> 'night
<quentusrex> I'll check back in the morning if you happen to think of something.
<_ruben> g'night
<bdrung> persia, TheMuso: ping
<dholbach> ttx is doing patch/package reviews in #ubuntu-reviews
<bdrung> dholbach: can you help me joining ubuntu-universe-sponsors?
<loic-m_> If a MOTU Release member has the time to spare, Bug #434078 needs another m-r ACK
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 434078 in gmameui "[FFE] Karmic: Please sync gmameui 0.2.11-2 with Debian unstable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/434078
<dholbach> bdrung: no, I'm sorry - I'm not an admin
<dholbach> persia, themuso: uus membership of bdrung please? :)
<dholbach> bdrung: you can still review and sponsors stuff, it's just that you can't unsubscribe the team
<dholbach> bdrung: if you  need somebody to unsubscribe uus from a but, please just yell in here
<dholbach> (for now)
<bdrung> dholbach: then bug 390580, 402174, 432564
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 390580 in gwget2 "[FFe] Please update gwget to 1.0.2 version" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/390580
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 402174 in fsl "fileno implicitly converted to pointer" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/402174
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 432564 in openerp-server "Please sync openerp-server 5.0.3-0-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/432564
<dholbach> bdrung: done - but usually you don't need to unsubscribe once they're uploaded
<dholbach> I mostly just unsubscribe when I say something like "patch is not ready, unsubscribing sponsors"
<dholbach> ... "please resubscribe when ready" :)
<dholbach> or for sync requests where there's nothing left to do for us
<bdrung> dholbach: yes, i know, but there are open debian / upstream bugs
<dholbach> that's why I use http://people.canonical.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/ :-)
<dholbach> it uses https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-main-sponsors so you don't get open upstream tasks :)
<strider> hi
<strider> so i've got these patches for bug #410267 and i'd like to learn to apply them the correct way so I can republish the package on my PPA
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 410267 in xorg-server "Pressure sensitive tablet: stylus paints off-cursor in Gimp and Inkscape" [Medium,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/410267
<strider> if i remember correctly I shouldn't touch the original sources
<bdrung> dholbach: do i need a ffe for bug 430658?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 430658 in lintian "Please merge lintian 2.2.16 (main) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/430658
<strider> should I paste the patches at the end of the .diff file ?
<dholbach> bdrung: try just asking in #ubuntu-devel - somebody from the release team should be able to tell you
<loic-m_> strider: usually you'd just add the patch in debian/patches
<loic-m_> strider: what's the name of the source package you need to patch?
<strider> libgtk2.0-0
<loic-m_> 27M, gonna take a while to dl...
<bdrung> dholbach: no response there
<dholbach> then ping specific members of ~ubuntu-release :)
<Laney> what's wrong with just subscribing them to the bug and asking for input?
<dholbach> that works too
<bdrung> would be a solution, too
<Laney> I see a lot of *-release pinging that probably isn't so urgent
<Laney> takes people away from what they are doing
<loic-m_> strider: there's a patches directory in debian/, sot it should be simple
<loic-m_> strider: the packaging uses quilt, so it should be straightforward. Just apt-get source libgtk2.0-0, then add the patches with quilt, dch -i update the changelog, then debuild/lintian/pbuilder and test
<loic-m_> strider: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems#quilt%20(example%20package:%20xterm)
<strider> ok thanks i will try this
<loic-m_> strider: document the patches afterwards, there's a spec for Ubuntu, that uses different keys than Debian, but I can't get a hold on it atm, forgot to bookmark it
<loic-m_> strider: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/PatchTaggingGuidelines for documenting the patches, and ping me if you need help at any point
<strider> ok, changelog updated, patches documented, trying to build the package
<bdrung> TheMuso: thanks
<TheMuso> np
<pan1nx> is loic-m_ same as lool?
<loic-m_> nope, whois would have told you ;)
<pan1nx> well, it is never accurate... and lool is loic minier... sorry to ask. I hope I didn't ofend any of you :D
<pan1nx> and I usually check via /nickserv info...
<strider> reading from launchpad : For example: you're creating an experimental version of the myapp_1.0-1 package. Your PPA package would be named myapp_1.0-2~ppa1.
<strider> do i only have to rename the source folder or is there a file to edit ?
<geser> just add a new changelog entry to debian/changelog describing your changes
<geser> you can use "dch" (from devscripts) to do it (dch helps with the formating)
<strider> yes that's done
<strider> i change the version number here ?
<loic-m_> strider: dch -i will put 2.17.11-1ubuntu2 for you, you can modify it to 2.17.11-1ubuntu2~ppa1 for example
<geser> yes, the version number of the package is the top-most entry in debian/changelog
<strider> ok got it
<moldy> on lp, can i change the bug status and comment in one step?
<moldy> ah, never mind, found it
<loic-m_> strider: your patches look good. The changelog entry shouldn't have "New upstream bugfix release:" though, since there's no new upstream tarball
<strider> oh right
<strider> it's a bit late now that the package's uploaded on Launchpad but i'll keep that in mind
<loic-m_> you don't need the same Closes: 3 times, just put it on the first line decribing the fact you added the 3 patches
<loic-m_> strider: don't you want to get it in the repos?
<jdstrand> I just noticed that https://help.ubuntu.com/community has tabs for 7.04 and 7.10, but not 8.10 and 9.04. Who should I report this to?
<strider> well yes it would be even better
<loic-m_> strider: debdiff gtk+2.0_2.17.11-1ubuntu1.dsc gtk+2.0_2.17.11-1ubuntu2.dsc > gtk+2.0_2.17.11-1ubuntu2.debdiff and you attach that to the bug report (just fix the changelog first, and be sure not to have ~ppa1 in the changelog)
<slytherin> jdstrand: #ubuntu-doc
<jdstrand> slytherin: thanks
<strider> does this look ok ? : http://paste.ubuntu.com/275841/
<loic-m_> Closes: #410267 > (LP: #410267) AFAIK
<loic-m_> Rest looks good, but 080 patch name ends without finishing the sentence... if-?
<loic-m_> l. 2, maybe describe more what the 3 patches are for, like "Fix off-cursor position in gtk applications when using a Tablet" or shtg like that
<strider> yes i noticed that too, Gnome's bugzilla might limit the number of characters in an attachment
<loic-m_> maybe Always_report_XI_events_to_the_grab_window_if_any ?
<directhex> NCommander, that was a brief appearance!
<NCommander> directhex, it was a wrong channel thing
<directhex> tsk
<strider> loic-m_, does this look ok ? http://strycore.com/files/gtk+2.0_2.17.11-1ubuntu2.debdiff
<strider> oh wait i forgot to save my new changelog
<strider> here, fixed
<Laney> can I get a list of packages I've sponsored easily?
<Riddelll> bdrung_: in what authority are you ACKing bug 432564 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 432564 in openerp-server "Please sync openerp-server 5.0.3-0-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/432564
<james_w> as a MOTU?
<james_w> MOTU
<james_w> Joined on 2009-09-10
<bdrung_> Riddell: yes, as motu :)
<loic-m_> strider: sorry, disconnection. Looking at your new debdiff, ll. 6, 13 trailing spaces, l. 11 : instead of / ; but more important l. 8 remove completely "Closes: #410267 > ", sorry I wasn't clear earlier
<loic-m_> strider: "Closes" is IIRC for Debian BTS
<Riddelll> bdrung_: and you're checking that such syncs don't have any new features?
<lifeless> closes: is debian BTS
<lifeless> lp: is launchpad
<slytherin> strider: loic-m_: 'Closes: #xxx' is Debian format. for Ubuntu 'LP: #xxx' is the correct format.
<loic-m_> strider: and ll. 7, 12, 14, Like/Block better not uppercase
<bdrung_> Riddell: yes, it is only a -1 -> -2
<hyperair> anyone from motu-release around?
<loic-m_> strider: btw the patch work, I'll comment on the bug report too when you'll put the debdiff. Thanks a lot!
<Riddelll> bdrung_: groovy, thanks
<strider> Well Carlos Garnacho did all the hard work, he's the one who should be thanked  :)
<loic-m_> strider: indeed, but porting it to Ubuntu is a good thing too
<sistpoty|work> hyperair: what's up?
<strider> yes and I learned a few useful things
<hyperair> sistpoty|work: not you. you already acked remuco ;-)
 * RainCT wonders why the archive rebuild pages have Colin's face on the top :P
<geser> RainCT: he watches us :)
<geser> it's because colin is the copy archive owner
<jpds> RainCT: Because he requested the rebuild?
<RainCT> jpds: so?
<hyperair> Riddelll: thanks for syncing tangerine
<geser> RainCT: bug 427051
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 427051 in soyuz "Copy archives show their owner too prominently" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/427051
<RainCT> Â«I call this high priority, as it means Colin is staring at me far too much. Scary.Â» LOL
<RainCT> ok, thanks
 * hyperair rofls
<loic-m_> strider: if you want the debdiff  reviewed, you should subscribe ubuntu sponsors for main.
<loic-m_> Then you might want to ask on #ubuntu-desktop since it's one of their packages, to check if you filled the bug well (might need to set the status to Confirmed or Triaged, I don't know what they use).
 * hyperair grumbles about firefox daily only working after installing debug symbols
<hyperair> hmm looks like it was starting before xulrunner got upgraded
<hyperair> oh well
<slytherin> hyperair: They do not want you to run firefox daily without contributing useful bug reports.
<hyperair> slytherin: heh
<hyperair> fta: http://pastebin.com/f1c2300b7
<hyperair> fta: there you go. full backtrace
<hyperair> hmm no wait, i can get a fuller one i think
<strider> loic-m_, ubuntu sponsors for main is a restricted team, I can't subscribe directly
<hyperair> fta: http://pastebin.com/f618b552f
<loic-m_> strider: I mean subscribe them to the bug ;)
<loic-m_> you can probably get better feedback on #ubuntu-desktop though
<RainCT> uhm.. what's the fix for C code using an "int_32" type but not declaring it?  "typedef int int_32;" or is there sth better?
<hyperair> int32_t
<RainCT> hyperair: thanks
<hyperair> it's C++, i'm not sure about C
<hyperair> or rather, c++0x
<RainCT> uhm, the package has:   buildlib/inttypes.h:  typedef int int32_t;
<hyperair> ah
<hyperair> then just #include it?
<RainCT> yeah, but just including won't do (as it's using "int_32" in some places)
<RainCT> ok, thanks hyperair
<hyperair> np
<blackxored> hello team, there's anyone running karmic which can reproduce this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/azureus/+bug/428514 ???
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 428514 in azureus "Azureus crashes both openjdk and sun java." [Undecided,New]
<hyperair> RainCT: find -type f -print0 | xargs -0 sed -i -e 's/int_32/int32_t/g'
<hyperair> azureus crashes *with* openjdk and sun java? or it seriously crashes both of those?
<hyperair> also i'm not an azureus user
<bddebian> Heya gang
<noodles775> Hi all, is there a way to get to revu packages when revu is itself down? (looks like there's no db connection there).
<imbrandon> noodles775: no and checking into it now
<noodles775> imbrandon: ok, thanks!
<doctormo> How would I backport a fix from karmic's nautilus to jaunty?
<doctormo> Or would it be best to just bite the bit and upgrade before the release?
<fabrice_sp> !sru|doctormo
<ubottu> doctormo: Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<fabrice_sp> and
<fabrice_sp> !backport| doctormo
<ubottu> doctormo: If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they may go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging
<doctormo> Thanks fabrice_sp, I guess I'll just wait.
<fabrice_sp> lol. ok
<jdong> doctormo: depending on how big the change in, it can be painful to isolate the change well enough to backport the fix
<jdong> change *is*
<doctormo> jdong: Aye, I figured nautilus would not be isolated enough to really bother with, I can wait.
<quentusrex> Can someone help debug a build issue? http://pastebin:freeswitch@pastebin.freeswitch.org/10450
<fabrice_sp> quentusrex, you still have this conf file issue?
<quentusrex> yup...
<fabrice_sp> is there a place where I can download your package?
<fabrice_sp> (REVU or similar)
<quentusrex> umm... it won't build...
<quentusrex> aah, you mean the source package...
<quentusrex> yeah
<fabrice_sp> the source, I mean
<quentusrex> just a sec
<fabrice_sp> yes :-)
<quentusrex> I'll build a source package and upload it to launchpad..
<fabrice_sp> ok
<fabrice_sp> your ppa is ok
<fabrice_sp> it will be easier to debug your issue :-)
<asomething> Hey all, I've got a FTBFS due to a package shipping empty PO files which pkgstriptranslations doesn't seem to like. But simply deleting the files doesn't show up in a diff.gz. Any idea how to best deal with this?
<asomething> Delete them in rules or is there something better?
<quentusrex> fabrice_sp: I'm going to start a new +repack of the package, then I'll upload that to launchpad..
<quentusrex> I'm sooooooo close to having this working.
<fabrice_sp> asomething, I would add a delete of empty po files in the rules file, or speak with upstream :-)
<fabrice_sp> quentusrex, np :-)
<LLStarks> hi.
<LLStarks> can anyone confirm that deluge is busted on karmic?
<quentusrex> freeswitch_1.0.4+repack5-0ubuntu14925.0 https://launchpad.net/~pbxbuntu-drivers/+archive/ppa
<quentusrex> fabrice_sp: give it a few minutes to finish uploading...
<jcastro> LLStarks: mine works
<LLStarks> jcastro. broken on fresh a6 install.
<fabrice_sp> quentusrex, ok
<LLStarks> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/deluge/+bug/434749
<asomething> LLStarks: no problem here either, what's your issue?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 434749 in deluge "Deluge freezes upon opening in Karmic" [Undecided,New]
<asomething> LLStarks, could you please re-report that with "ubuntu-bug deluge" so that it adds version and dependency info, ect...
<quentusrex> fabrice_sp: ok it's accepted.
<RoAkSoAx> persia, heya! can I be added to u-u-s please?
 * fabrice_sp is downloading freeswitch
<sebner> geser: aaarrrrggghh. http://launchpadlibrarian.net/32265767/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-i386.cdk_1%3A1.0.2-2ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<LLStarks> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/deluge/+bug/434757
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 434757 in deluge "Deluge freezes upon opening in Karmic (v2)" [Undecided,New]
<asomething> LLStarks, thanks!
<geser> sebner: I don't understand why. I've checked in my i386 karmic chroot that installing the build-dependencies as listed in the apt-get line from the build log works
<quentusrex> fabrice_sp: just a heads up. it takes about 20 minutes to build... :)
<sebner> geser: Yeah, As I told you, I testbuilt even in my PPA without problems
<geser> oh, that's the main archive?
<sebner> geser: hmm?
<fabrice_sp> quentusrex, ok: Let's see how long it lasts in mine :-)
<quentusrex> fabrice_sp: and I haven't been using the make clean portion. I just delete all of the data, and extract the tar again.
<geser> sebner: :) libjgrapht0.6-java |    0.6.0-8 | http://archive.ubuntu.com karmic/multiverse Packages
<fabrice_sp> quentusrex, by the way: the version is ugly
<fabrice_sp> :-)
<geser> sebner: go hunt an archive admin
<sebner> geser: omg.
<quentusrex> fabrice_sp: what do you mean about the version being ugly?
<quentusrex> fabrice_sp: can you think of a better way to do it?
<geser> sebner: I guess it's because the old version of that binary package was in multiverse
<sebner> geser: "Sind die denn komplett deppert?" xD
<fabrice_sp> quentusrex, ugly because of ubuntu14925.0
<geser> sebner: the new upload didn't probably need to pass NEW as it's a known binary
<quentusrex> fabrice_sp: I couldn't think of a way to add the svn revision to the version, in such a way that wouldn't effect the orig file...
<geser> only the -link packages needed NEWing
<sebner> geser: it did go through NEW, jdstrand managed that for me
<quentusrex> but would also let me have multiple shots at getting a particular revision packaged more than once... in case I run into issues.
<geser> hmm
<fabrice_sp> quentusrex, something like freeswitch_1.0.4+svn14925+repack5-0ubuntu1 (if repack still apply in that case)
<quentusrex> fabrice_sp: that'd be cool... but wouldn't that require a new orig for each svn revision?
<sebner> geser: It's a horror. The same problem again
<geser> sebner: you just need to find an archive admin who fixes the component
<fabrice_sp> quentusrex, each time you get the svn version, yes. How are you doing it now?
<sebner> geser: yep
 * fabrice_sp is downloading the build dependency of freeswitch
<quentusrex> fabrice_sp: I'm looking to build a nightly package for this one.
<quentusrex> but use the same orig for in between 1.0.* releases
<quentusrex> so that's why I put the svn where I did...
<quentusrex> it is ugly, but it works for my needs...
<quentusrex> the non dev packages don't have the svn version..
 * hyperair wonders if anyone from motu-release can look at bug #432900
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 432900 in ubuntu "[FFe] Please sync remuco (universe) 0.9.1.1+dfsg-1 from Debian Unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/432900
<fabrice_sp> quentusrex, as you want. The firefox team is doing it in another way: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-daily/+archive/ppa
<fabrice_sp> package building
<quentusrex> I'll take a look
<sebner> geser: /me retries cdk build
<quentusrex> fabrice_sp: is it starting to build for you?
<geser> sebner: wait on the next publisher run else you probably get an upload error
<ScottK> hyperair: Approved.
<hyperair> ScottK: thanks.
<sebner> geser: at every full hour?
<ScottK> You're welcome.
<ScottK> sebner: Starts at :03 and finishes at ~:45.
<geser> sebner: yes
<sebner> kk
<sebner> thx
<sebner> hyperair: I'll make MOTU review
<hyperair> sebner: thanks =)
<fabrice_sp> quentusrex, yes
<fabrice_sp> quentusrex, compilation got frozen :-/
<quentusrex> what?
<asomething> Anyone know of a way to set up pbuilder to use pkgstriptranslations so that it acts more like the buildds?
<quentusrex> it takes a while for some of the files
<ScottK> asomething: Install (IIRC) packagebinarymangler into your pbuilder chroot.
<fabrice_sp> quentusrex, has to upgrade/update my chroot
<geser> asomething: install pkgbinarymangler in your pbuilder and enable the parts you want in the config files
<asomething> geser, ScottK: thanks. It will run on its own? Doesn't need a hook?
<geser> asomething: it dpkg-diverts the standard tools
<asac> hyperair: what version of ffox do you get the backgrace?
<hyperair> asac: 3.7 daily
<quentusrex> fabrice_sp: darn it...
<hyperair> asac: the backtrace can be gotten from xulrunner 1.9.3 later than 20090914.
<asac> hyperair: forcing extensions?
<quentusrex> I build it for karmic... it should have been jaunty
<hyperair> hmm extensions eh..
<hyperair> yeah
<hyperair> should i try safe mode?
<quentusrex> fabrice_sp: I'll reupload....
<hyperair> hmph how strange. it works again
<hyperair> okay, it's intermittent
<quentusrex> fabrice_sp: I'm uploading the replacement...
<hyperair> hmm bad adblock
<fabrice_sp> quentusrex, you mean in the changelog? It's no problem (I'm building with karmic, anyway)
<quentusrex> fabrice_sp: ok...
<quentusrex> I uploaded a new one anyways with the correct release...
<fabrice_sp> asomething, I've just seen now that you are the one that put a comment on bug #416262. FYI, I tried to clarify the situation, if you want to have a look at it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 416262 in aptoncd "Sync aptoncd 0.1.98+bzr112-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/416262
<asomething> fabrice_sp: ok, i though that was the case, but wanted to make sure.
<fabrice_sp> asomething, I have to admit it was a mess :-) Thanks for asking :-)
<asac> hyperair: ok. so did you force adblock?
<asac> where is the current feature freeze for universe policy?
 * asac  checks topic
<asomething> asac: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess#Exceptions for Universe/Multiverse
<Davedan> in what part of a package I'm creating a user when packaging a server?
<fabrice_sp> quentusrex, I've the error :-) So now, I have to check what is installed where
<quentusrex> fabrice_sp: ok. thanks.
<quentusrex> fabrice_sp: I'm trying to set things up so that the configs are in a separate package...
<quentusrex> because some people don't want the configs, since they have already made their own.
<quentusrex> and these configs are more like sample configs.
<_ruben> such configs tend to go under /usr/share/doc/<package>/(examples/)
<quentusrex> _ruben: that's where we'd like to move them to
<quentusrex> but for now we are leaving all the files where they are now, and just getting it to package separately
<fabrice_sp> quentusrex, so in this case, you won't need .conffile
<_ruben> ah ok, didnt read scrollback :)
<fabrice_sp> just install them as example
<fabrice_sp> quentusrex, but what about someone that install the pacakge for ths first time?
<fabrice_sp> thanks for acking it asomething :-)
<asomething> fabrice_sp: np =)
<fabrice_sp> quentusrex, I think the /opt prefix is wrong
<quentusrex> ok... but where is '/opt' set? I did a grep and didn't see it in the package at all
<quentusrex> they are all 'opt/'
<fabrice_sp> in debian/rules
<fabrice_sp> ./configure --prefix=/opt/freeswitch --host=$(DEB_HOST_GNU_TYPE) --build=$(DEB_BUILD_GNU_TYPE) ${FEATURES}
<fabrice_sp> that's wrong for a Debian pacakge :-)
<fabrice_sp> s/pacakge/package/
<quentusrex> fabrice_sp: how should it be?
<quentusrex> fabrice_sp: I think I found the error....
<fabrice_sp> quentusrex, --prefix=/usr
<fabrice_sp> 8I think)
<quentusrex> oh, that kind of stuff will be fixed later...
<quentusrex> I just need it to build...
<quentusrex> This is why I'm still putting this in a development ppa...
<fabrice_sp> quentusrex, about the conf file. Do you want to install it as an example or as a conf?
<quentusrex> I'm changing it to be where it should be
<quentusrex> in opt/
<fabrice_sp> hmmm, not sure opt is the right place
<quentusrex> fabrice_sp: opt isn't the right place
<quentusrex> but that is where the software expects it to be
<quentusrex> so I need to put it there for now
<stani> pochu, ScottK, ScottK-desktop: I uploaded the phatch 0.2 release and POX is now busy with it. I will be back in one and half hour
<ScottK> pochu or stani: This will need an FFe approved.
<fabrice_sp> quentusrex, so for the moment, use only .install files
<stani> ScottK: I know
<ScottK> stani: OK.  Please ping me when the FFe is ready for review.
 * POX gave phatch 0.2 branch a hard time, that should count as "+1" for FFe ;)
<sebner> geser: cdk successfully build and accepted \o/ thanks for you help :)
<ScottK> POX: We'll get it in.  Thanks for all your work on it.
<POX> stani redirected me to nadia yesterday (sick of my bug reports probably ;)
<LaserJock> any MOTU SRU about?
 * fabrice_sp just discovered that dbs is not a typo of cdbs. How many build systems are there ?!
<LaserJock> a few ;-)
<fabrice_sp> :-)
<LaserJock> does anybody know what the status of a bug should be if it's waiting on MOTU SRU to approve it?
<Davedan> I have a server I want to package as .deb
<Davedan> It has a folder with sub-folders containing library files and script
<Davedan> it is all compiled so I only need to copy it to the files system
<Davedan> I also understood that it is best practive to create a system user for this server
<Davedan> I've been looking at db-helper but it seems it is more suitable for source packages
<fabrice_sp> LaserJock, New
<fabrice_sp> (if I understand correctly https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess)
<fabrice_sp> Davedan, debhelper is a serie of helper functions to build binary packages. The building part is done using the app building system
<fabrice_sp> so it should fit your needs
<LaserJock> fabrice_sp: hmm, I guess I could try it even though this is for an SRU and not a freeze exception
<fabrice_sp> LaserJock, arghhh: I must be tired: I read FFe :-/
<Davedan> fabrice_sp: what file do I need to edit to copy my server files to the file system?
<Davedan> what is the correct place on the file system for the server library files?
<fabrice_sp> Davedan, you can have a look at http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html
<fabrice_sp> but by packaging, you won't copy it to your file system. You will copy it in a temporary place, that get 'packaged' in a deb file
<Davedan> fabrice_sp: how does the deb file knows where to put my server files on the file system?
<Davedan> and what file of the template files created by debhelper do I need to edit to create a system user that will run the server
<fabrice_sp> Davedan, the deb file contains 2 gz file: one with controls files and the other with the packaged files. This second gz has the same directory structure as your 'sytem'
<fabrice_sp> Davedan, for the user, I would say postinst after install to create it and postrm, to remove that  user on removal
<fabrice_sp> anyway, if you don't know how packaging works, it will be hard to package that 'complexe' app
<Davedan> so if I want my server to be placed under /usr/local/myserver I should put it under temp_deb_folder/usr/local/myserver ?
<fabrice_sp> Davedan, yes, except that packages never installs on /usr/local. They install in /usr directly
<Davedan> my app is simple. I doesn't require compiling. just need to place a folder on the file system and create a user
<Davedan> thanks. I'll try that
<LaserJock> Davedan: you want to use the debian/install file to gett he files where you want them
<fabrice_sp> Davedan, except that this folder is binary content. It should really be compiled in some way
<LaserJock> Davedan: and debian/postinst and debian/prerm to add and remove the system user respectively
<Davedan> LaserJock: what is debian/install? is it part of the files created by deb_helper?
<LaserJock> Davedan: yep
<LaserJock> Davedan: it tells debhelper what files go where
<LaserJock> Davedan: but in the system context
<Davedan> fabrice_sp: it's an erlang application that has a VM so it is self consistent
<Davedan> LaserJock: so I don't need to touch the rules file?
<LaserJock> so if you have file foo/bar and you want it in /usr/share/foo then you would put foo/bar usr/share/foo in debian/install
<LaserJock> Davedan: you can if you want, but I like using debian/install better
<Davedan> that's the part I was looking for
<Davedan> LaserJock: what permissions will the foo/bar file get by default? who will be the owner?
<LaserJock> root I believe for all files in a .deb
<Davedan> do I need to set permissions for the new user just on the script that runs the server?
<LaserJock> that would be my guess but I don't know for sure
<Davedan> thank you two. that realy helps
<fabrice_sp> Davedan, if you need more hellp, you can have a look at the packaging guide
<fabrice_sp> !packaging
<ubottu> The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<Davedan> I read it but now I have some basis for reading it again and understanding more
<fabrice_sp> :-)
<zooko> Howdy folks.  Yay Karmic!  :-)
<stani> ScottK: would it help FFE if I assign all fixed bugs in https://bugs.launchpad.net/phatch/+bugs to the phatch(ubuntu) package?
<stani> ScottK: or does that create only more unnecessary work?
<bdrung_> will new source packages be automatically synced (after opening lucid)?
<sebner> bdrung_: yes
<bdrung_> sebner: thanks
<bdrung_> sebner: will they go through ubuntu's new queue?
<sebner> bdrung_: afaik yes
<irvingpop> MOTU team.  Just filed needs-packaging request 434883.   I know it's crunch time for Karmic and my needs-packaging request is a bit late.
<irvingpop> I'd like to help out and make the package, for a PPA or something.    Any pointers to where I can get started?
<Darxus> irvingpop: I don't think it's possible to get a new package in karmic at this point.
<Darxus> But, there's...
<Darxus> irvingpop: Start here:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
<irvingpop> Yeah, I know.   The thing doesn't even compile on Karmic,  I really need to get it running on Jaunty
<irvingpop> so I was thinking I need to make a PPA.   I was told this channel would be the best place for me to get some help
<Darxus> Other than that, the MOTU page seems to have lots of good pointers.
<Darxus> irvingpop: Well, what help do you need?  Building a package?  Uploading it to a ppa?
<irvingpop> Yeah.   I've been packaging for other OSes for a long time,  but I've never created a .deb package.   This tool (Flashcam) has no packaging infrastructure at all right now
<Darxus> irvingpop: Have you checked out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU ?
<irvingpop> Right now I'm just using "checkinstall" to package it for my own purposes.  But I think it's useful to others so I want to share
<Darxus> I actually don't know what checkinstall is.
<Darxus> I just uploaded my first debdiff yesterday.
<irvingpop> It's cheesy.   Instead of running "make install"  you run "checkinstall" instead, and it watches all of the install targets and makes a simple package for you.
<Darxus> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages is conspicuously missing a link on how to actually create a package.
<Darxus> irvingpop: Ah, nice.
<ScottK> stani: It's not needed.  Just list the bugs in the FFe.
<irvingpop> Yeah, so that's where I'm looking right now
<irvingpop> I'm trying to find a simple template or something for new packages
<ScottK> stani: They ought to be in your changelog anyway, so a copy of that in the bug should do.
<Darxus> http://blog.mypapit.net/2006/02/create-you-own-debianubuntu-deb-package.html
<stani> ScottK: ok
<sebner> !MOTU | Darxus
<ubottu> Darxus: motu is short for Masters of the Universe. The brave souls who maintain the packages in the Universe section of Ubuntu. See  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
<Darxus> sebner: Why did you do that?
<sebner> Darren: click that link -> To get started right away on your MOTU adventure, click here!
<sebner> Darxus: there is every information you need
<ScottK> irvingpop: Please don't recommend checkinstall.
<ScottK> !checkinstall | irvingpop
<ubottu> irvingpop: checkinstall is a wrapper to "make install", useful for installing programs you compiled. It will create a .deb package, which will be listed in the APT database and can be uninstalled like other packages. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CheckInstall - Read the warnings at the top and bottom of that web page, and DO NOT interrupt CheckInstall while it's running!
<superm1> ScottK, there are no warnings on that page
<irvingpop> I've been told its a big no-no
<ScottK> There aren't?
<ScottK> Grumble.
<sebner> irvingpop: true ;)
<Darxus> irvingpop: Yeah, the "To get started right away on your MOTU adventure, click here!" link on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU looks like exactly what you're looking for.
<superm1> it actually makes checkinstall look sound like a decent solution just glancing through it
<irvingpop> checkinstall is part of the RPM packaging process as well,  which is why I started there
<irvingpop> but that's it, I won't mention it again
<irvingpop> :)
<ScottK> superm1: And then when I tried to look at the page history I got an internal server error.
<Darxus> Yeah, checkinstall sounds quite lovely :)
<superm1> ScottK, what were the big reasons that were recommending against it?  looking at the history, it looks like some fo the big warnings that were related to permissions that got fixed in newer versions
<ScottK> superm1: I'm not sure.
<ScottK> It's not possible to automatically produce policy complaint packages.
<sebner> ScottK: not wondering, no script/app can do that
<Darxus> ScottK: Yeah but it seems like a great place to start.
<ScottK> So even if some of the more dangerous flaws have been corrected, it's fundamentally unsuitable.
<ScottK> Darxus: I disagree.
<ScottK> I think knowing what you are doing is a great place to start.
<Darxus> ScottK: Document your objections on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CheckInstall
<sebner> Darxus: well, if you want to do something, do it right. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete
<Darxus> sebner: I understand.  But somebody should document disadvantages on the checkinstall page.
<sebner> Darxus: true, as no one uses checkinstall here it might have been forgotten or people just don't care
<superm1> although i wouldn't recommend it's usage over learning to package, i would be interested to find out what about it's packaging is outside of policy too
<irvingpop> Two of the links (the blog from Darxus and the Packaging/Complete wiki page) seem to be enough to get me started
<sebner> superm1: just choose an application to package a) the right way b) checkinstall and then compare :)
<Daviey> it's not easily reproducible, including overwriting changelog on slight change.
<Daviey> i'm not even satisified it does much more than dh_make anyway.
<irvingpop> From what I gather,  checkinstall is not a sustainable way to build packages which integrate into a build system (like Launchpad),  but it is suitable for one-off "I just need this packaged quickly" jobs
 * ScottK marked on the page and prepares for wikiwar.
<sebner> irvingpop: something like that, yes
<irvingpop> OK,  I'm going to go make a package.   sorry if I rocked the boat :)
<sebner> irvingpop: hrhr, np. I do a make install if I need an app quickly though. Not used checkinstall since years
<sebner> go ScottK go
<ScottK> I tried to be low key about it.  We'll see.
<irvingpop> sebner:  I need it quickly on a dozen desktops,  otherwise I wouldn't bother
<sebner> ScottK: what was the name of this horrible application which installed stuff and did apt-get --force and that stuff
<ScottK> automatix
<ScottK> It's still around under a different name, AFAIK.
<irvingpop> Plus,  if anyone has tried to use a Webcam with Flash Player recently they would feel my pain
<irvingpop> bbl
<sebner> ScottK: write something like that: Checkinstall is the automatix for packaging. HAHA
 * ScottK just said don't us it for pacakges intended for distribution.
<sebner> bah :P
<Darxus> Does checkinstall even create a .deb?
<ScottK> If people want to blow up their own systems, that's really their business.
<sebner> Darxus: yes
<sebner> ScottK: hmm as long as they don't file bugs on LP then ....
<ScottK> Yep.
<ScottK> Back when automatix was popular I used to sometimes search in LP bugs for automatix and invalid any where it came up.
<Darxus> I used automatix :P
<sebner> Darxus: not surprising :P
<ScottK> So did I, before I knew better.
<ScottK> The real beauty of the way it was broken was that it would work, but would screw future upgrades, so they almost never got the blame.
<Darxus> Yeah, my video broke bad during an upgrade.
<Darxus> Drivers.  Nvidia.
<Darxus> But it provided useful stuff that ubuntu didn't.
<ScottK> If it'd been done in a sane way, it would have been fine.
<Darxus> Do I have to do anything else to get this debdiff into karmic?  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/azureus/+bug/428514
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 428514 in azureus "Azureus crashes both openjdk and sun java." [Undecided,New]
<Darxus> It's such a minor change, and it make azureus not crash :/
<zooko> Hey ScottK: you were so picky about licensing with pycryptopp that I've pre-emptively gone and cleaned up all licensing issues that I can think of for Tahoe-LAFS.  ;-)
<zooko> When I get off work today I intend to try uploading a new Tahoe-LAFS to REVU myself, which is just like the current one up there except with a bunch of grant of rights statements and the copyright file fully fleshed out and so on.
<zooko> Since the Beta Freeze is coming up, and since some people already advocated for an earlier upload of Tahoe-LAFS which is functionally identical to this one, can I somehow mark it on REVU as partially advocated or something?
<zooko> One person -- kirkland -- advocated Tahoe-LAFS.
<Davedan1> in what folder needs to place the script that start and stops a server ?
<Davedan1> and in what folder are the server library files
<Darxus> Davedan1: /etc/rc*
<Darxus> Davedan1: Server library files?  Something other than /usr/lib ?
<Davedan1> Darxus: /etc/rc* is for the init.d script?
<Darxus> Davedan1: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete  <- it should be in there.
<Davedan1> Darxus: I've read it but it doesn't tell you where to put the program files
<Darxus> Davedan1: You need to put a script in /etc/init.d/ and then simlink it to the various /etc/rc* directories corresponding to the runlevels you want it started and stopped for.
<Darxus> Does ubuntu really not document this?
<Darxus> Might be worth checking debian policy.
<Davedan1> Darxus: I know about the init.d script but sometime servers call a nother script from the init.d script
<Davedan1> so the init.d script just has the bare minumum and it excute commands from server_name_ctl script
<Darxus> Okay.
<Davedan1> so my question is were to put server_name_ctl script
<Darxus> Davedan1: Ah.  I don't know.
<Darxus> Davedan1: Probably /usr/sbin/
<Darxus> Davedan1: I was serious about checking debian policy.
<Darxus> Davedan1: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/
<Darxus> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-opersys.html#s-sysvinit  9.3 System run levels and init.d scripts
<Davedan1> thanks
<Darxus> You're welcome.
<stani> POX, pochu, ScottK: do I have to wait untill Phatch is uploaded to Debian to file a FFE?
<POX> stani: it will have to go thru NEW in Debian (new binary packages), so pochu should probably upload it to Ubuntu once I'll do it in Debian
<Darxus> Davedan1: Debian policy says file system hierarchy must comply with http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/fhs/
<Darxus> Davedan1: http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#USRSBINNONESSENTIALSTANDARDSYSTEMBI
<Darxus> Davedan1: Yeah, I think /usr/sbin would be right.
<Davedan1> I've read it
<Davedan1> ok. thanks
<ScottK> stani: What POX says makes sense.  Go ahead and file the FFe.
<stani> ScottK: thanks
#ubuntu-motu 2009-09-23
<LaserJock> MOTU SRU: please have a look at bug #367375 for me, thanks
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 367375 in userful-multiplier "SRU: cpu usage goes to 100%" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/367375
<LaserJock> jdong: ping
<jdong> LaserJock: sup?
<Darxus> If I modify azureus to be only less spammy, will it be accepted into universe?  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/azureus/+bug/434979
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 434979 in azureus "vuze just asked me for money" [Undecided,New]
<lifeless> seeking -release folk
<ScottK> You rang?
<lifeless> hi
<lifeless> I have a couple of FFe's I'd like approve
<lifeless> d
<ScottK> OK.  What bugs?
<lifeless> sec, evo being slow
<lifeless> 434927
<lifeless> 434943
<lifeless> bug 434927, bug 434943
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 434927 in ubuntu "FFe: Sync libgetopt++ 0.0.2-p22-3 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/434927
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 434943 in ubuntu "FFe: Sync config-manager 0.4-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/434943
 * ScottK looks.
<lifeless> huh, requestsync didn't use the right package
 * lifeless fixes
<ScottK> Which one is wrong?
<lifeless> both were on 'ubuntu'
<ScottK> Ah.
<lifeless> bug 434927, bug 434943
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 434927 in ubuntu "FFe: Sync libgetopt++ 0.0.2-p22-3 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/434927
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 434943 in ubuntu "FFe: Sync config-manager 0.4-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/434943
<lifeless> meh, anyhow fixed.
<lifeless> they are both low risk, packages that were incorrectly removed, which I've fixed and restored in Debian
<ScottK> OK.  Ack #1 from me.
<ajmitch_> that's probably why they were put against 'ubuntu' rather than the package
<ScottK> lifeless: What's pqm and why don't we have it in the archive?
<zooko> Yay for bzr 2.0!
<lifeless> ajmitch_: yes, I'm just filing a ubuntu-dev-tools bug :P
<zooko> ... which, by the way, supports storing your repositories in a Tahoe-LAFS grid (through its ftp interface).
<lifeless> ScottK: its very awkward to package; its a cron script for doing merges.
<zooko> Okay I need to go read bedtime stories to an 8-year-old and then I'm going to try to improve the licensing in Tahoe-LAFS in http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/tahoe-lafs .
<lifeless> ScottK: it may get packaged, but at the moment its much easier to drop it in a dedicated users homedir
<ScottK> OK.
<ajmitch_> do you still mostly drive PQM from procmail?
<lifeless> yes
<lifeless> zooko: ciao!
<zooko> Oh, one more detail: a user named Nils Durner is writing an article entitled "distributed revision control in the cloud" about how he uses bzr 1.18 with Tahoe-LAFS.
<zooko> Okay, back in a bit.
<zul> hey ajmitch_
<ajmitch_> hi
<LaserJock> hi ajmitch_ and zul
<ajmitch_> hey LaserJock
<zul> LaserJock! how is it going?
<LaserJock> going pretty OK
<LaserJock> been working
<LaserJock> but glad to have the PhD done
<lifeless> one more needed :)
<LaserJock> stupid thing took forever
<ajmitch_> Dr LaserJock, what a thought :)
<LaserJock> ajmitch_: yes, it's very weird to see a Dr in front of my name on the office door
<lifeless> Hobbsee: ping
<ajmitch_> you're doing a postdoc at the moment, or working outside academia?
<LaserJock> both
<LaserJock> postdoc'ing at the Air Force Research Lab
<LaserJock> I'm a rocket scientist now ;-)
<ajmitch_> RocketJock?
<lifeless> lol
<LaserJock> uhhh, somehow that doesn't quite sound as good
<LaserJock> didn't ogra once see a sign for a LaserRock concert?
<lifeless> StevenK: why aren't you in motu-release
<LaserJock> ajmitch_: I still work with lasers, I'm just using them for the Department of Defense ;-)
<ScottK> OK, checkinstall page complete with a new warning.  This one copied direct from the upstream README, so it ought to be hard to argue with.
<lifeless> 'dont use this' ?
<ScottK> I already put in don't use this on packages intended for distribution.
<zul> you suck if you use this?
<ScottK> If they want to explode their own systems, that's their business.
<captivus> Good evening, all.  I asked this question the other day, and it is likely that someone answered it while I've been idle and I can't seem to locate it in my buffer ...
<captivus> Does anyone know if Launchy has been packaged for Ubuntu?  If not, I'd be interested in packaging it myself.
<captivus> I can't seem to find it in the standard repos ...
<captivus> But I am, admittedly, a neophyte on this ...
<zooko> back
<zooko> ScottK: I am addressing the licensing questions listed in http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/report.py/legal?upid=6899
<zooko> Do I really need to add a copyright statement to every file?
<ScottK> Looking
<lifeless> I'm of the !citation perspective there
<lifeless> but I'm not an archive admin
<zooko> I don't really mind.  It's just a few minutes of work writing a script to do it or something...
<lifeless> if one considers the program as a 'work', then a full file is no more or less a part than a parapgraph is
<lifeless> so its rather odd to obssess about files
<lifeless> I think we've inherited this from RCS
<ScottK> zooko: They are not absolutely required, but they are a good practice.  What is absolutely required is that a full copy of all licenses used in the package be shipped in the upstream tarball.
<zooko> ScottK: how about in the copyright file which is included in the upstream tarball?
<ScottK> zooko: Does it have a full copy of the license?
<zooko> Yes on TGPPL1, no on GPL2, no on MIT
<ScottK> It's all got to be there.
<ScottK> On something like MIT which may have the complete license cited in a program file, that's sufficient.
<zooko> Hm, and there are also LGPL2 files.
<ScottK> There just needs to be a full copy, it's not required to be a separate file.
<lifeless> ScottK: what about asf 2, which explicitly wants a web reference?
<ScottK> lifeless: Then put a full copy of it in with the web reference.
<lifeless> heh
<ScottK> There's no other way to know the actual terms since web references can be changed.
<zooko> So, there is a file in Tahoe-LAFS which says "It will be released under the BSD license." http://allmydata.org/trac/tahoe/browser/src/allmydata/util/figleaf.py
<zooko> Subsequently new versions of that project have indeed been released under MIT: http://darcs.idyll.org/~t/projects/figleaf/doc/
<zooko> What should I do?  I think the best answer is: remove that file and break that feature for now.
<ScottK> No, I'd just add a copy of the BSD license to the tarball.
<ScottK> If you can reasonably figure out which one they mean.
<zooko> The modern version says "figleaf is available under the MIT license." in the announcements and "license='BSD'," in the python setup.py metadata.  :-)
<ScottK> Whats included in the package is what counts.
<zooko> What does "license='BSD'" mean in Python metadata?
<zooko> I suppose it means the same thing that "License :: OSI Approved :: BSD License" means in the Trove Classifiers.
<zooko> Which I guess is "BSD-new": http://www.opensource.org/licenses/bsd-license.php
<ScottK> How old is the old version of the package?
<Darxus> "BUILD SUCCESSFUL"
 * Darxus dances.
<Darxus> (azureus)
<zooko> ScottK: three years ago: http://allmydata.org/trac/tahoe/changeset/144/src/allmydata/util/figleaf.py
<ScottK> Then I think that's a reasonable assumption.  4 clause BSD was recinded in 1999.
<zooko> So, should I also include the text of GPL2 in the copyright file, or is that one specially excepted?
<zooko> The copyright file does say "On Debian GNU/Linux systems, the complete text of the GNU General Public License can be found in `/usr/share/common-licenses/GPL'/".
<zooko> Okay here is our new copyright file: http://testgrid.allmydata.org:3567/file/URI%3ACHK%3Ab4t7r43svbjrid2yaylg6bug5m%3Aacj7tzbq64us74rp2prg3okaptn6hnkhweupowp626o4wtsrw7kq%3A3%3A10%3A30075/@@named=/copyright
<lifeless> zooko: the upstream taball has to have the GPL
<lifeless> GPL2 I mean
<zooko> lifeless: it does.
<lifeless> zooko: the debian binary can reference it
<zooko> lifeless: okay
<zooko> Hm, okay now I'm trying to build a new package with these changes but I don't know how to use debuild...
<lifeless> debuild -i -S
<zooko> Hm, so before I can run debuild, I need to construct an ubuntuized directory out of .orig.tar.gz and the .diff from here, right?  http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/tahoe-lafs
<lifeless> dget http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/tahoe-lafs
<lifeless> uupdate
<ScottK> Except with the full url to the .dsc
<lifeless> if the package has a correct watch file and you've published your new upstream
<zooko> I haven't published my new upstream.
<lifeless> you should do that :)
<zooko> I want to apply these patches to licensing statements just to the Tahoe-LAFS which was already reviewed by kirkland.
<zooko> Our trunk has a few feature improvements that we haven't released yet.
<lifeless> so, conceptually the debian package has no business changing licence data from upstream
<lifeless> can you do a point release?
 * zooko reviews his project's recent history.
<zooko> v1.5.0 was released on 2009-08-01.  Since then, we've edited the docs...
<zooko> refactored a core component, updated the build scripts to build Debian/Ubuntu packages better,
<lifeless> zooko: btw
<lifeless> FTP is really slow; if Tahoe could offer SFTP or even a custom transport, the bzr integration would be orders of magnitude better
<lifeless> -> #bzr if you want more detail ;)
<zooko> I do, but not right now.
<lifeless> you know where to find me :)
<zooko> I actually think I need to give up on this project for tonight -- it is past my bedtime and I need to be patient while helping my boys get ready for school in the morning.
<zooko> I don't think the Tahoe-LAFS project wants to make a new release of any kind before Karmic's Beta Freeze (which is imminent).
<zooko> We've already committed these changes to trunk, but not made a release.
<zooko> So it isn't so much that the Ubuntu packaging is changing these things as that it is applying these patches from trunk and not taking the feature-improvements and refactorings that are also on trunk more recent than the most recent stable release.
<zooko> Anyway, thanks a lot for the help!
<lifeless> zooko: ok
 * zooko makes a note to ask lifeless about better Tahoe-LAFS bzr integration.
<zooko> By the way I'm not the author of the relevant patches, but I can learn.
<zooko> Aha I figured out how to debuild this thing I downloaded from revu...
<StevenK> lifeless: I'm supposed to be?
<lifeless> StevenK: no but if you were I could nag you
 * StevenK adds another reason to the list for not being in motu-release
<zooko> Dang, debsign says my secret key is not available.  However "gpg --sign $FILE" works.
<ScottK> zooko: Look that the name/email address in debian/changelog.  It likely doesn't match what's in your key.
<StevenK> This can also happen if your key has a comment on it
<ScottK> That too.
<zooko> Ah, it is probably that I have two uids...
<zooko> Yay!
 * zooko wonders what -i and -S mean.
 * ScottK hands zooko man dpkg-buildpackage
<ScottK> The -i you didn't actually need.
<zooko> Ah, for what it is worth I had already looked at man debuild before I said that...
<ScottK> Recall the debuild is essentially a wrapper for dpkg-buildpackage, lintian, and debsign.
<zooko> Thanks.
<zooko> Okay, now I'm going to try dput...
<zooko> Hm, does this mean it worked? http://codepad.org/U1lT29It
<zooko> Ah, I got a nice rejection letter in the mail.
<zooko> The signer of this package has no upload rights to this distribution's primary archive.  Did you mean to upload to a PPA?
<zooko> It said.
<StevenK> Where did you to dput to?
<zooko> dput ../tahoe-lafs_1.5.0-0ubuntu2_source.changes  http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/tahoe-lafs
<zooko> Upload package to host ubuntu
<zooko> Howdy doko_!
<StevenK> zooko: Ah. dput doesn't take a URL to upload to like that, so it uploaded it to the master archive, and got rejected. Read 'man dput'
<zooko> Thanks.
<StevenK> zooko: For further reference, you'll also get a message from the PPA system if your upload worked
<lifeless> and the mail address was right :P
<zooko> Thanks!  Darn, it looks like this failed attempt has left evidence of 0ubuntu2 already being there, so now dput says "Already uploaded" and won't reupload it.
<zooko> Aha, there is a .upload file locally that has that in it...
<StevenK> dput -f, or remove the .upload file
 * zooko waits for mail from the PPA system.
<zooko> Hm, this time I said to upload to "revu.ubuntuwire.com" and I got the same rejection letter: "The signer of this package has no upload rights to this distribution's primary archive.  Did you mean to upload to a PPA?"
<micahg> zooko: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<zooko> micahg: thanks.
 * jdong looks at bug 434979
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 434979 in azureus "vuze just asked me for money" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/434979
<jdong> do we have any Free-ness guidelines about money nagging?
<ScottK> It's distasteful at best.
<jdong> wholeheartedly agreed
<ScottK> I don't think we should hesitate a moment about removing it.
<jdong> furthermore looking at comment #2...
<jdong> apparently it nags you FURTHER if you decline
<jdong> and apparently loads ads?
<jdong> heh definitely borders on ridiculous
<jmarsden> Is this "nagging" not just a natural consequence of declaring bug #268447 invalid? :)   Someone is apparently trying to push the envelope... once you open that door, all kinds of bad stuff will come in.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 268447 in ichthux-meta "MOTD should not point to https://landscape.canonical.com if you are not a customer" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/268447
<zooko> Hooray for me!  I have successfully uploaded a package to REVU!  http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/tahoe-lafs
<zooko> Tahoe-LAFS has already been reviewed and advocated by kirkland, so it hopefully doesn't require too much work to confirm that the changes since he advocated don't invalidate his advocacy.
<zooko> Therefore, if I understand correctly, after such a review to make sure we didn't break anything, Tahoe-LAFS is ready to be uploaded into Karmic!
<ScottK> jmarsden: You'll notice MOTD doesn't do that anymore.
<ScottK> zooko: It takes two advocates.
<jmarsden> ScottK: In Jaunty?  Or in Karmic Alphas?  In Jaunty with full updates here it still seems to do that.
<ScottK> My Jaunty doesn't do that anymore.
<ScottK> I'm reasonably certain I didn't change anything.
<jmarsden> Well, mine doesn't because I added the appropriate lines to the config file to kill it off :)
<zooko> ScottK: Okay, I will ask iulian and rainct and pox if they can advocate for its inclusion.
<ScottK> zooko: POX is not a MOTU, so his wouldn't count here (unfortunately).
<zooko> Okay, I'll ask those other two.
<jmarsden> ScottK: And my Karmic Alpha6 Server VM does still have that ad in the MOTD... so I don't think it has been silently fixed.
<ScottK> jmarsden: If it'd just been "Buy my proprietary add-on", then I think that would have been an appropriate precedent.
<jmarsden> I think if I were the author/packager of vuze and you kill one and not the other, I'd declare that to be hypocritical...
<ScottK> I'm not a fan of either one, but the vuze one seems more in your face.
<zooko> Okay, I've emailed iulian and rainct asking if they will advocate for Tahoe-LAFS.
<zooko> Thanks for your help, folks.  Good night!
<jmarsden> ScottK: Definitely agreed... but the thing is, IMO if someone with authority declares the vuze one to be "bad" enough to kill it, either they must also declare the landscape-sysinfo one to be similarly "bad" too, or they are in effect setting some sort of hard to defend unwritten standard half way down a very slippery slope.
<dholbach> good morning
<fabrice_sp> Hey dholbach !
<dholbach> hola fabrice_sp!
<fabrice_sp> :-)
<fabrice_sp> Guten morgen Herr Daniel :-)
<dholbach> it's "Morgen"
<dholbach> but other than that it looks good :-)
<dholbach> I think I need another coffee before the "Morgen" is going to be "gut" :)
<fabrice_sp> No German in more than 15 years...
<fabrice_sp> Have a good coffee :-)
<dholbach> thanks muchly fabrice_sp :)
<zooko> Good night from UTC-6.
<wrapster> im trying to build sun studio 12 but dont have the source so no .dsc or such default files.. im looking at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete to learn how to do it.. but when i run dh_make -e maintainer@address after the next display i get this "Hit <enter> to confirm: Could not find sunstudio_12.orig.tar.gz Either specify an alternate file to use with -f, or add --createorig to create one.
<wrapster> how do i resolve this issue?
<wrapster> can anyone please help me.. Im a newbie to this.. just started off
<dholbach> best to download the .tar.gz from the homepage and rename it to sunstudio_12.orig.tar.gz
<wrapster> dholbach: i actually used the --createorig from the dh_make
<wrapster> is that good or should i redo it?
<wrapster> dholbach: would need help so please assist me in this..just starting to learn
<dholbach> just ask in here
<dholbach> download the source from the homepage
<dholbach> and rename the .tar.gz file to sunstudio_12.orig.tar.gz
<dholbach> or repack it if it's a .zip or whatever
<dholbach> and then go from there
<wrapster> done..
<wrapster> ok thanks will revert when i hit another bottleneck
<wrapster> thanks
<dholbach> rock on
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/devweek0909/PkgFromScratch might help too
<wrapster> dholbach: thanks.
<wrapster> dholbach: im using dh_make and asks me the type of pkg?(single/muti/....) what would it be..
<wrapster> im thinking its multi.
<wrapster> could you please let me know what needs to be filled in?
<dholbach> start with single to get something working, then you can start splitting out stuff later on
<wrapster> ok
<dholbach> the package will get more and more complicated on its own :)
<wrapster> ok reached the rule file.... :) and based on my logic.. How its tarball works is that you just need to extract it into a dir called /opt/SUNWspro and dump the contents into it thats all so Im assuming that i dont need the default rules file that has been created automatically.. could i just do by writing a purpose served rule file?
<mase_wk> Hi guys, I'm trying to learn how to package a kernel , following this guide https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel/Compile
<mase_wk> using the Alternate Build Method: The Old-Fashioned Debian Way
<mase_wk> since i need to do a new kernel from kernel.org
<mase_wk> i am hitting this problem http://pastebin.com/m4274f35b
<mase_wk> obviously not doing something correctly but i'm not sure what.
<mase_wk> any assistance would be appreciated.
<_ruben> mase_wk: if you just need a newer kernel, you could look in the kernelteam's mainline build 'ppa'
<mase_wk> _ruben: i tried that but i didn't have the wireless package in order to satisfy the deps
<mase_wk> and this is a hardy machine so it wasn't in the repos
<mase_wk> wireles-crda
<mase_wk> wireless-crda*
<_ruben> mase_wk: ah ok .. then i'd look at the kernelteam wiki instead of the community docs, they explain the latest and greatest methods
<mase_wk> oh ok cool will have a look
<freeflying> dholbach: ping
<dholbach> freeflying: pong
<freeflying> dholbach: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ibus-pinyin/+bug/431823
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 431823 in ibus-table-wubi "the dependent packages are too large" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<freeflying> dholbach: two fix are pending to be upload, both are in main, so I need your help :)
<dholbach> is ubuntu-main-sponsors subscribed?
<freeflying> dholbach: let me check
<dholbach> that's usually the way to get somebody to check the bug who can upload the fix :)
<dholbach> ... without relying on one person
<freeflying> dholbach: got you, thanks
<freeflying> dholbach: actually they were assigned to ubuntu-main-sponsors :)
<dholbach> ah good :)
<slytherin> TheMuso: Can you please look at bug #430937 when you get time and tell me what more information it needs?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 430937 in pulseaudio "Too low volume in fully updated karmic installation" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/430937
<wrapster> http://pastie.org/627139
<wrapster> what does this error mean?
<wrapster> i was able to come this far!! how do i resolve it?
<slytherin> wrapster: what are you trying to do exactly?
<wrapster> slytherin: im trying to build sun studio 12
<slytherin> wrapster: and what command did you use?
<wrapster> dpkg-buildpackage <with flags>
<slytherin> wrapster: you did that from inside the source package right?
<wrapster> yes
<slytherin> wrapster: Can you paste your rules file somewhere?
<wrapster> one moment
<wrapster> slytherin: http://pastie.org/627139
<wrapster> slytherin: im a beginner learning my way through packaging so please let me know if ive made mistakes and why it wont work as well
<wrapster> thanks
<slytherin> wrapster: in your rules file, binary target depends on binary-arch and binary-arch target doesn't have any commands.
<wrapster> oops
<wrapster> binary-arch: <\n\t> @echo "nothing to do here as well" should suffice
<slytherin> wrapster: Does sunstudio use ant to build the source?
<wrapster> this is not the source
<wrapster> and im not very sure either...
<wrapster> anyway i still get the same result
<wrapster> dpkg-genchanges: failure: cannot read files list file: No such file or directory  ; dpkg-buildpackage: failure: dpkg-genchanges gave error exit status 2
<slytherin> wrapster: I don't understand your comment "this is not the source"
<wrapster> at least to figure out from where its coming is there a way i can run the rules file one rule at a time
<wrapster> yes its a tarball of precompiled sources...
<wrapster> all you need to actually do is to extract the tarball .place it where you want and set $PATH and start using it
<wrapster> what im trying to achieve is to build a .deb around it and when you install it will just copy from the current location to /opt/SUNWspro
<wrapster> thats it
<slytherin> wrapster: I believe you are doing it wrong way. You should remove leading / from opt/SUNWspro/. Also don't use /usr/bin/cp, just use cp.
<wrapster> hmm ok
<geser> wrapster: can you pastebin your complete build log please?
<wrapster> geser: where is it located?
<wrapster> never looked at it thus far
<geser> wrapster: I mean the whole output from your attempt to build the package
<wrapster> ok
<geser> I assume what's wrong but want to check first
<wrapster> geser: ok one moment please
<wrapster> geser: http://pastie.org/627182
<wrapster> thats the entire pastie
<geser> thanks
<wrapster> geser: can you please help me...
<geser> as I assumed: during the package build the "binary" targets gets called (line 23) but when you look at your rules files you see that binary only depends on binary-arch which does nothing
<geser> your whole work to build the package is in binary-indep which isn't used
<wrapster> ouch.
<geser> btw: is your "link" target not used by purpose as a dependency somewhere?
<wrapster> it is
<wrapster> not as a dependency but a seperate rule
<geser> change the dependency for binary from binary-arch to binary-indep (or list both) and you should come a little further
<mok0> ubuntu keyserver is on its knees...
<wrapster> geser: yeah did that... hope it works now
<wrapster> ok thats resolved but ran into this.. http://pastie.org/627139
<geser> replace line 19 in your rules with what needs to be done to "install" the package
<geser> s/the package/the software/
<wrapster> ok
<wrapster> cp: cannot stat `READMEs:': No such file or directory ;;;dh_installdocs: command returned error code 256;;; make: *** [binary-arch] Error 1 ;;; dpkg-buildpackage: failure: debian/rules binary gave error exit status 2
<wrapster> are these error coming from installdocs
<slytherin> Does anyone know if fPIC flag is needed with GCC 4.4?
<mok0> slytherin: Why would it not be?
<slytherin> mok0: I am just asking. I searched on google and someone said it was present in old version of gcc (4.2).
<mok0> slytherin: you mean on by default?
<mok0> slytherin, better keep it around
<slytherin> There were failures in java3d on Debian buildd that were fixed by adding -fPIC flag. These failures were not seen on Ubuntu buildd. So I was wondering if it is because of gcc version difference.
<mok0> slytherin: oh I see
<mok0> slytherin: failures when running or failures during compilation?
<slytherin> mok0: FTBFS. :-)
<mok0> slytherin: Hm, weird
<mok0> slytherin: There can be many subtle differences in the compiler
<mok0> slytherin: and perhaps the optimization setting was different
<mok0> slytherin: Optimization might re-organize the code so it just fits within a segment
<slytherin> hmm, possible
<mok0> (or the other way around)
<mok0> slytherin: In that case, adding -fpic should be sufficient :-)
<mok0> WFT? Icons are gone from Launchpad's home pages
<mok0> I should say "branding"
<slytherin> mok0: LP 3.0 is being released today.
<mok0> slytherin: Don't they usually shut the thing down for upgrades?
<slytherin> they usually make it read only
<slytherin> any PHP experts here?
<mok0> !ask
<ubottu> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line, so others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<mok0> :-D
<slytherin> I am looking for some help in solving the error seen at the top - http://ubuntu-in.info/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
<mok0> slytherin: can you pastebin the code (relevant part)?
<mok0> Very nice hp btw
<slytherin> mok0: http://paste.ubuntu.com/276316/
<slytherin> hp?
<mok0> homepage :-)
<mok0> slytherin: I take it line 9 in the paste corresponds to line 78 in "Polyglot.php"
<slytherin> mok0: yes
<slytherin> I will be back
<mok0> slytherin: obviously, $GLOBALS['wgLanguageNames'] is not an array
<slytherin> mok0: Solved the problem. Language.php file which defines the array was not included in LocalSettings.php
<AnAnt> what's MIR ?
<geser> !MIR
<ubottu> mir is Main Inclusion Report - see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionProcess for more information.
<AnAnt> ah
<AnAnt> thanks
<`brandon`> hello, i have parallel plesk but it's .dev40.*
<`brandon`> i need to make it into a .deb file only can you help.
<Laney> wiggle wiggle
 * hyperair thanks cjwatson for syncing remuco
 * slytherin congratulates hyperair :-)
<hyperair> =)
<DktrKranz> hyperair: that was sponsored by me, be prepared to receive tons of bugs!
<hyperair> DktrKranz: are you saying my work is lousy? ;-)
<DktrKranz> hyperair: no, but who knows what I added to your code before uploading ;)
<hyperair> DktrKranz: hah. i can verify that. =p
<hyperair> you didn't add anything did you?
 * hyperair is lazy to check
<DktrKranz> hehe, joking :P
<hyperair> =p
<Laney> ha ha there's an rc bug already
<Darxus> My debdiff got sponsored into karmic!
<hyperair> Laney: that was before he sponsored it. and i can't reproduce it
<hyperair> i should probably ask for more information
<Laney> downgrade it and set the tag then
<Laney> you shouldn't leave rc bugs alone, looks bad
<hyperair> okay
<hyperair> er
<hyperair> what tag?
<Laney> unreproducible
<hyperair> ah
<Laney> that's hardly grave anyway even if it were a real bug
<DktrKranz> hyperair: ask him to reproduce with recent gnome, that could help
<Laney> one part of the package doesn't work
<hyperair> Laney: what should i set the severity to?
<Laney> important a bug which has a major effect on the usability of a package, without rendering it completely unusable to everyone.
<Laney> sounds right to me
<hyperair> ok
 * ejat pokes hyperair
 * hyperair pokes ejat back
<hyperair> hmm how do i send commands to control@bugs.debian.org in the same email as some other text?
<hyperair> do i indent the control commands or waht?
 * hyperair finds the debian bts confusing and unintuitive
<Laney> cc control
<Laney> put your commands at the top
<Laney> then "thanks"
<Laney> then your reply
<hyperair> aah
<hyperair> okay
<jtimberman> anyone able to look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libmixlib-config-ruby/+bug/420674 and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/chef/+bug/424576 and sponsor for sync (mixlib) and upload (chef) ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 420674 in libmixlib-config-ruby "Update libmixlib-config-ruby to new upstream version 1.0.12" [Undecided,New]
<zooko> Whoo-hoo!  Tahoe-LAFS is in the Karmic queue.  As soon as someone archives it and it becomes apt-gettable, I will ask Tahoe-LAFS users to test it out in Karmic.
<zooko> Okay off to my day job -- I'll lurk on this channel.
<directhex> is there a handy script to send an ubuntu bug to debian?
<geser> forward a bug or a patch?
<james_w> I've got the reverse, I wonder if run it backwards through python it will do what you want
<c_korn> hm, what package is missing when a tcl script fails with "can't find package Tk". I installed tk8.5 but this made no difference
<DaveMorris> via the control file, is there a way to specify that a package should be built with g++4.2 rather than g++4.3?  Since I'm guessing g++ is getting pulled in by default from one of my build depends
<DaveMorris> or do I have to patch the build system to called g++4.2 rather than g++ and just have g++4.2 as a build dependancy
<ubuntu_giant> I'm trying to follow the steps on [https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto].  This is what I did: http://pastebin.com/m77e749c3.  Anybody know the problem?
<ubuntu_giant> Thanks in advance.
<danbhfive> ubuntu_giant: just keep doing work
<danbhfive> eventually, it will complete once enough entropy is gathered (I don't know the exact details)
<ubuntu_giant> So I just ignore what it says and wait?
<ubuntu_giant> Okay, I see output now.  Thanks. :)
<danbhfive> well, in theory you need to follow what it says
<geser> DaveMorris: both, you need to add g++-4.3 to build-depends to get it installed and make sure that g++-4.3 is used (check if you can set an environment variable to the c++ compiler to be used else you need to patch)
<DaveMorris> thanks geser
<geser> don't remember right now if it was CPP or CXX which you need to set to g++-4.3 (depends also on the build system to honour it)
<phreestyle-work> hello....have a question. I'm interesting in bugfixing for Ubuntu, and I'm a Windows (C#) developer during the day, but I'm learning Python and already familiar with programming concepts. How would I go about getting the source of an application, changing it, building and testing it?
<chrisccoulson> phreestyle-work - you could perhaps start by taking a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/ :)
<phreestyle-work> well, I tried to packaging at one time, but it was too much to handle at once....and from what I've read, MOTU is basically just packaging, but I was directed here from #ubuntu-devel
<randomaction> get-modify-build cycle is described here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFix
<phreestyle-work> randomaction: why does that page go straight from "before fixing a bug, make sure you can replicate it", to "Here's an example of how to create a patch"? It's all the stuff between those two sections is what I need to know
<phreestyle-work> ok, nevermind, I just found the part about apt-get source
<fabrice_sp> phreestyle-work, look at the 'Generating a patch' section in that page
<randomaction> right, the "Generating the patch" section walks you through downloading source, appending the changelog, building etc.
<phreestyle-work> yea, sorry, I read the first line and thought it was already trying to tell me how to change the package
<dkurochkin> Hello. I have uploaded my first ubuntu package in REVU about a month ago: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/polygraph . No one has reviewed it since then. Is this a proper place to ask for REVU package review?
<fabrice_sp> dkurochkin, yes. I can a look later on
<fabrice_sp> How long will you be connected ?
<fabrice_sp> (just in case _I have questions)
<dkurochkin> Thanks! I am in russia, so I will go to bed soon. Feel free to send comments and questions to my email address from debian/control.
<fabrice_sp> I'll comment in review then
<fabrice_sp> dkurochkin, this is a quite huge package (3,5Mb). Isn't it possible to make several binary packages?
<fabrice_sp> better said: doses it make sense to do several packages
<loic-m> Where does one look to see past requests for removal in Debian?
<Laney> requests or actual removals?
<loic-m> actual ones
<loic-m> just to know the reason(s)
<fabrice_sp> loic-m, you can see it in the package page in launchpad
<loic-m> thanks fabrice_sp, I'll have a look
<fabrice_sp> loic-m, which package?
<loic-m> slim (just trying to answer a port in -devel-discuss
<Laney> in debian..
<Laney> ftp-master.d.o/removals.txt
<Laney> afaik
<fabrice_sp> this is what you ahve in launchpad: Deleted in karmic-release  (Reason: (From Debian) RoM; unmaintained)
<sharms> so can I pretty much take any packages that FTBFS and fix them, or is there a priority to them?
<loic-m> yes, indeed
<loic-m> i got a new maintainer/uplaod in August, that's what happened, and wasn't synced since past DIF
<loic-m> Is there a possibility to get it back in Karmic (since the package was in Jaunty, it would be preventing a regression)
<sharms> just apt-get dist-upgraded my kvm jaunty to karmic, no apparent issues
<sharms> that is good news
<directhex> Your account 'directhex' has just been created in the central LDAP
<directhex> database of the Debian project.
<sharms> directhex: congrats
<Laney> :D
<Laney> sign my key pls
<directhex> come to oxford!
<Laney> hmmmmmmm
<Laney> I'll be at LRL Â¬_Â¬
<sharms> I will be at Ohio Linux Fest
<sharms> this weekend actually
<directhex> i think i'm in san antonio during LRL
<geser> sharms: there is no priority in FTBFS fixing, you may fix any package you want
<fabrice_sp> I usually check with popcon, just to see if there is at least one user :-)
<fabrice_sp> One question: the general consensus is not to add a patch system to a package if Debian does not have one?
<geser> yes, as you easily end with patch applied directly and patches applied through the patch system
<fabrice_sp> thanks geser
<sharms> if I fix a FTBFS what should I tag it with
<sharms> or do we still do that
<geser> I don't know of any tagging
<jpds> sharms: Attach the patch, and subscribe the correct sponsorship team.
<toabctl> hi all
<toabctl> there's a problem with trac in karmic. the debian/rules file tries to chmod a file in debian/trac/usr/lib/... , but the file is in debian/usr/local/lib . can anybody help? see http://launchpadlibrarian.net/32316783/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-i386.trac_0.11.5-2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<sharms> if someone gets a chance can a motu review https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cryptonit/+bug/435477
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 435477 in cryptonit "Fix FTBFS" [Undecided,New]
<POX> DktrKranz: can you update stani's FFe bug (#434972) with build logs and whatever else is needed and sync it from Debian unstable?
<DktrKranz> POX: I haven't Ubuntu box hany ATM, I can build it in a pbuilder, though
<DktrKranz> *handy
<POX> heh, /me didn't think he's that good in stealing Ubuntu developers
<POX> pochu uses Debian these dats, same for DktrKranz....
<POX> s/dats/days
<POX> ScottK: you're next ;)
<POX> how's your NM process, btw
<jpds> directhex: Congrats.
<directhex> 8D
<DktrKranz> hey directhex! :)
 * jpds pinches directhex's ear and forces him in #ubuntu-uk
<directhex> more channels? :o
<Daviey> directhex: go'an
<jpds> Daviey: He has?
<Daviey> hmm.. ETOOMANYCHANNELS fail
<fabrice_sp> sharms, do not assign the bug to MOTU Reviewers Team, subscribe Universe sponsors
<geser> sharms: on a quick look (don't have time right now for more) it looks good, but as fabrice_sp said
<sharms> thanks, appreciate it
<geser> else your bug don't get reviewed by anyone
<mruiz> hi all
<fabrice_sp> hi mruiz
<mruiz> what is the difference between debian/control and debian/control.in ?
<fabrice_sp> sharms, not assign
<fabrice_sp> :-)
<mruiz> fabrice_sp, hello!
<fabrice_sp> sharms, on the right, you have the Subscribe someone else link
<sharms> haha ok got it
<fabrice_sp> :-)
<fabrice_sp> that's funny: I downloaded cryptonit yesterday, but didn't had time to work on it :)
<fabrice_sp> thanks for you contribution
<sharms> thanks for the help with the process, a bit rusty
<fabrice_sp> that's fine now ;-)
<geser> mruiz: control.in is a template to generate control, you should find there some placeholders
<geser> some packages use it to generate the correct build-depends on e.g. cdbs or put in the list of uploaders
<mruiz> geser, then ... what should I modify?
<geser> both to be on the safe side
<mruiz> :D
<micahg> do I have to do anything special to request a sync now after feature freeze?
<micahg> it's for a package with security updates
<micahg> I'm reading the FFe process wiki page
<micahg> since it's a sync, do I need an actual diff
<geser> micahg: it depends on the other changes: if it's a just a patch applied then a normal sync request is enough
<micahg> or is a link to the securtiy fixes enoug?
<micahg> no
<micahg> it's a version bump
<micahg> with bugfixes as well
<mruiz> I'm getting this error during a build "`Depends' field, reference to `epiphany-webkit': error in version: version string is empty"
<geser> then you need to check if it's only a bug fix release -> sync request as normal (noting that's it's only a bug fix release would be helpful)
<geser> else you need a FFe
<micahg> geser: only bug fix (i.e. minor revision)?
<geser> depends on the upstream, some are only bug fixes others not
<micahg> seems like they added one thing as well
<geser> look at the changelog from upstream
<micahg> ok
<micahg> geser: just says new upstream relase
<c_korn> how are spaces been escaped in an install file properly ?
<geser> micahg: :( then you need to look at the diff between the new versions
<micahg> geser: is there a debian site that'll show the diffs between versions like LP?
<geser> not that I know of
<micahg> thanks geser, I'll have to come back when I have more time
<irvingpop> MOTU team,  thanks for your packaging help yesterday.   I need one more bit of packaging advice
<irvingpop> I've created a package infrastructure for a program which has never been packaged for Debian/Ubuntu before,  but I'm stuck on one bit
<irvingpop> The package includes a kernel module for Jaunty.  this was fine until I moved it into Launchpad,  now it cannot build
<irvingpop> I'm guessing I need to split the kernel module bit out somehow, right?
<tisepti> i produced some .deb files by apt-get source;  applying some changes and then making it; the names however is a bit off - it should be package-7:4.3.5..suff...deb; what i got was package-4.3.5..stuff...deb; which basicly has the effect of making the 'bad' one 'newer'; can i simply rename my file to what it is 'supposed' to be and have everything work?
<Darxus> tisepti: Unlikely.
<Darxus> tisepti: The version is probably determined by debian/changelog.
<tisepti> Daraxus: hmm - the changelog this was generated from is long gone; i think ill just add (= version) dependencies on the other things
<tisepti> or regenerate - though that would be a bit difficult at this point
<Darxus> Er, I don't think a .deb will build without a changelog.
<Darxus> The command "dch -i" is used to update the changelog.  It might also generate one for you if it doesn't exist.
<Darxus> There's a --create option for that.
<tisepti> er no - the .deb was created; and the sources folder was deleted a bit ago
<tisepti> im not sure if this channel is even interested but its the 9.04 version of libmagick (and friends); if compiled with openMP (which they are in the repo) there are cases where you can get a deadlock; i think its resolved in 9.10; this simply redoes the package without openMP
<tisepti> im recompiling the libmagic 9.04 libraries with different options; however the produced .deb files are all of the form NAME_6.4.5.4...3.2; from the repository however the files are NAME_7:6.4.5.4...; that should just be part of the debian/changelog?
<tisepti> i duplicated an older changelog entry only altering the ..3.1 to ..3.2
<tisepti> how is the epoch set
<nicklas_> ( . Y . )
<lifeless> nicklas_: please don't, that is unnecessary and offensive to many
<nicklas_> sorry :-P just bored
#ubuntu-motu 2009-09-24
<nicklas_> i am sorry, that wasnt meant as an offense, just a joke, didnt know people would get so angry, wont do it again
<lifeless> thank you
<NoReflex> Hello guys! I'm looking for some information on how I could compile a source to be installed just as a version from ubuntu's repo. If I compile it using the default options it will use other folders for binaries, libraries and won't make menu shortcuts
<zooko> Hm, is there anything I can do to accelerate the process of getting tahoe-lafs popped from this queue -- https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+queue -- and put into the Karmic apt-repo so that I can ask Tahoe-LAFS users to test out the Karmic package?
<james_w> zooko: unfortunately for you the friendly archive-admin that would be on rotation right now is on vacation, so it might be a while before someone gets to it
<james_w> zooko: so accelerated processing requires asking someone nicely
<zooko> james_w: would *you* be so kind as to archive-admin that package?  I've been careful to document all the licensing.
<james_w> hey, you know my rule! ;-)
<zooko> I figured that we're going ...  Ah, yes I do.  :-)
<zooko> I'll ask you politely tomorrow morning after your coffee.
<james_w> but after I go and be horizontally in a dark room for 8 hours I'll try and remember to look
<zooko> I figure that we Tahoe-LAFS devs are going to be supporting the version that is in Karmic for many years, so I would like to give it a good workout before Karmic goes gold.
<james_w> you would focus on the karmic version over the LTS one?
<zooko> Tahoe-LAFS has thorough unit tests (TDDFTW!), but obviously "real world with users using it in strange ways" tests cannot be skipped.
<james_w> (nice attitude though :-)
<zooko> That totally depends on user demand.
<zooko> My perspective so far is that Hardy is super popular among servers, but that we still support edgy, feisty, and gutsy.
<james_w> given that support is 18 months for karmic, and 5 years for lucid on the server you can happily tell karmic users to upgrade before too long
<zooko> We dropped dapper finally.
<zooko> Hm, I hadn't really thought of it that way.
<james_w> well, *we* don't support edgy feisty and gutsy
<james_w> so it's probably better you don't
<zooko> The whole point, or most of the point, of Tahoe-LAFS is long-term storage and reliability and safety and so on.
<james_w> tell them to get on to hardy where they get security updates for the base packages
<zooko> So we have a general attitude that we have to maintain backwards compatibility as well as we can.
<james_w> cool
<zooko> Although now that you mention it, this attitude might not apply to the underlying OS.
<james_w> yeah, we limit the number of versions we will support people running for a long time
<zooko> As far as I know all of our actual current users are on Hardy or newer or a similarly new other OS.
<zooko> You make an excellent point about security updates of base packages.
<james_w> I guess most people don't run too much on their machines beside tahoe?
<james_w> but still, the kernel doesn't get support for longer than anything else
<zooko> There are two classes of Tahoe-LAFS user: the corp which runs hundreds of servers doing nothing but Tahoe-LAFS, and the "friendnet"
<zooko> a group of hackers who run Tahoe-LAFS on their personal machines or personal servers.
<zooko> There is only one element in the first set, so far.
<zooko> There are several "friendnets".
<zooko> Anyway, Karmic will be supported for 18 months, right?
<james_w> yep
<james_w> (I hope, or I look silly now)
<zooko> That's a long time that all the software we write will have to be fully bidirectional compatible with whatever is in Karmic.
<james_w> true
<zooko> So please remember to archive Tahoe-LAFS tomorrow so I can get more days of testing in before Karmic goes gold.  :-)
<james_w> I will!
<zooko> Thanks!
<james_w> no thank you
<zooko> See you later.
<NoReflex> For example I'm trying to compile postgresql 8.4.1 on Jaunty. If I do ./configure --help | more I get a section that' called "Fine tuning of the installation directories:". Is there  a general rule on which these directories should be in Ubuntu?
<azeem> depends on what they are
<NoReflex> init scripts in /etc/init.d/, config files in /etc/software_name/ and so on...
<azeem> NoReflex: see the File Hiearachy Standard
<NoReflex> azeem, does Ubuntu respect the standard guidelines from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_Hierarchy_Standard?
<NoReflex> I need to install postgresql-8.4.1 on Ubuntu Jaunty server and pgadmin3-1.10.0 in Ubuntu Desktop. Neither has been updated in Jaunty repository so I believe I must compile them manually and build a deb file with checkinstall. The thing is I want them to be configured as close as possible as the older versions from the repository.
<azeem> then just update the older version manually
<azeem> or simply try to rebuild the Debian package (for postgresql)
<NoReflex> azeem how do I update the older version manually? using uupdate?
<azeem> karmic appears to ship pgadmin3-1.10 so you could just try to rebuild that package on your target Ubuntu system as well
<micahg> NoReflex: you could try to backport the karmic version
<azeem> NoReflex: that'd be a starting point
<NoReflex> azeem how do I rebuild pgadmin3-1.10 from karmic? do I have to get the source and the compile on m jaunty machine?
<micahg> NoReflex: you can build the sources in a Launchpad PPA
<NoReflex> micahg, on Launchpad i see this "We will not accept uploads of packages that are unmodified from their original source in Ubuntu or Debian, only packages that include your own change"
<NoReflex> I believe I'm not eligible for a PPA and must compile the software on my own computer
<micahg> NoReflex: everyone can have a personal PPA
<micahg> they're free
<micahg> if you have a user account on LP, you can create a ppa
<micahg> you can even have multiple ones now
<micahg> NoReflex: you update the changelog
<NoReflex> micahg, I don't think I'm skilled enough to set up my PPA. I tried uupdate but that didn't retain the debian specific configuration options of the older version
<micahg> NoReflex: add the karmic deb src line, apt-get -t karmic source PKGNAME
<NoReflex> If I'll succeed compiling on my own computer I probably set up a PPA with postgresql-server and related tools
<wgrant> NoReflex: Why would you want a special version of postgresql?
<NoReflex> wgran, I want the latest version of postgresql not a special one. jaunty only has 8.3.7
<wgrant> NoReflex: There are already PPAs with 8.4
<NoReflex> wgrant I knwo that 8.4 is in karmic's repo and sid's repo but I've been told not to mix repositories between releases
<micahg> NoReflex: it's already been done: https://edge.launchpad.net/~pitti/+archive/postgresql
<NoReflex> micahg, it seems to work but now I need pgadmin3 1.10.0 which is compatible with postgres 8.4 and for that I didn't find a PPA on Launchpad. This is why I believe it's better if I learn how to compile the sources myself first.
<micahg> NoReflex: so you can backport it to a ppa
<NoReflex> micahg, I downloaded the source for pgadmin3 1.10.0 from karmic's source repository
<micahg> NoReflex: are you familiar at all with packaging?
<NoReflex> I used before ./configure, make, make install (or checkinstall) make uninstall
<micahg> ok
<micahg> well, if you use a ppa, you don't need to do that, but you do need to add a changelog revision set for the version of ubuntu you want it to compile for
<micahg> NoReflex: you need to pay attention to the version number as well
<micahg> so that if you upgrade to karmic, you get the karmic packages
<micahg> and any updates
<NoReflex> So basically the PPA compiles the sources I upload (./configure, make and checkinstall?)
<micahg> yep
<micahg> with the proper dependencies for that version (assuming they exist)
<micahg> if they don't you have to backport the dependencies
<micahg> you can also, add other ppas as dependencies for your ppa
<tisepti> I have created a new version of libmagick; how can i cause all of the dependencies of the packages produced to be the packages I am producing; there was a security patch which did this http://packages.ubuntu.com/jaunty/libmagick++-dev
<tisepti> in that patch all the dependencies are (= 7:6.4.5.4.dfsg1-1ubuntu3.1)
<tisepti> for my stuff my dependencies are simply stuff like 7:6.4.5.4.dfsg1-ubuntu3
<tisepti> which means that old stuff satisfies
<tisepti> that seems to be controled in the debian/control file with some things such as ${shlibs:Depends},
<NoReflex> On a more general level
<NoReflex> ...is the whole PPA idea a good thing?
<NoReflex> What if someone modifies the source and puts in some malware code (like a keylooger) and uploads it to his PPA? How can the users know that PPA is trustworthy?
<NoReflex> Does someone verify the sources or the generated binaries?
<wgrant> NoReflex: You need to trust the owner of the PPA, or verify the sources yourself.
<wgrant> You always know that the binaries are generated from the sources that you see, as Launchpad builds them itself.
<mase_wk> hi guys, i'm looking for a straight forward way to package a new kernel.org kernel with ubuntu. Is checkinstall ok for packages which will be used internally  only ?
<zul> mase_wk: check out kernel-package and the make-kpkg checkinstall is not a good idea at all
<mase_wk> zul: i tried using make-kpkg however that did not work with 2.6.31 on hardy
<mase_wk> at least not with the kernel from kernel.org
<mase_wk> zul: what are the disadvantages of checkinstall ?
<mase_wk> assuming i am only using the packages on my systems
<zul> mase_wk: it could break your system
<mase_wk> ok, in what particular way ?
<ScottK> POX: Progressing, but both my AM and I are pretty busy.
<mruiz> hi all
<porthose> Would someone from the release team please check bug #435626 to see if it needs an FFe.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 435626 in pylirc "Sync pylirc 0.0.5-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/435626
<Darxus> mase_wk: checkinstall is no worse than make install.  It just runs make install and keeps track of the files that get created so they can be easily removed.
<nixternal> porthose: is that even in the repos?
<porthose> yes :)
<nixternal> hrmm, i can't dl it
<nixternal> interesting
<nixternal> don't rely on 'apt-cache' I guess when looking for packages :/
<porthose> pull-lp-source didn't work either
<ScottK> nixternal: rmadison is better
<nixternal> derr, if I could only speeeel
<nixternal> pythn-pylirc isn't going to cut it
<Darxus> Heh.  Damn picky computers.
<Darxus> The "o" key on my phone is terrible, so that looks familiar :/
<zooko> Darxus: the way you describe checkinstall makes me think that the GNU stow approach is more robust.
<Darxus> zooko: stow?
<nixternal> Darxus: ya, I have an issue with 'i' on my phone
<zooko> GNU stow!  A beautiful piece of work.  One nice simple hack which is very useful.
 * zooko finishes singing the "Praise We Now GNU Stow" song
<nixternal> hehe, haven't used stow in probably 10 years
<Darxus> zooko: Okay, more robust how?
<zooko> Darxus: GNU stow never lets the installer script, i.e. the software's Makefile or whatever, write into your system.
<zooko> Instead it gets to write into a special-purpose empty directory created just for it, by telling it ./configure --prefix=$YOUR_INSTDIR
<zooko> for example.
<Darxus> Ahh.
<zooko> So that's the first way that it is more robust is that the installer script can't overwrite things.  It doesn't run under sudo.
<Darxus> Well, there's nothing keeping you from running ./configure --prefix before checkinstall, right?
<zooko> The next way is that you can safely and completely uninstall everything that it ever had permission to write, with the following command: "/bin/rm -rf $YOUR_INSTDIR".
<Darxus> Heh.
<zooko> And then there's the final piece, which is how GNU stow cleverly uses symlinks to make the previous two pieces convenient and useful.
<zooko> There's something I love about using an old, pre-existing, lower-layer tool like the filesystem and rm and symlinks to achieve a higher-layer goal like uninstallable software installation.
<Darxus> It sounds nice if you don't trust the make install, but if you don't trust the make install you shouldn't be installing the software at all.
<zooko> Obviously it doesn't do everything you might want, but when you need something like GNU stow, GNU stow makes a very good tool.
<zooko> Darxus: are you familiar with the notion of "Principle of Least Authority"?
<Darxus> If I didn't know about checkinstall I'd almost certainly use it the next time I had to install something from source.
<Darxus> zooko: I can infer well enough.
 * zooko nods.
<zooko> It applies to this case.
<zooko> The most common problems with installing software from source isn't malice on the part of the packager, but accident.
<zooko> Running "make install" without root privs helps a great deal against that problem.
<zooko> But even if you think of the malicious case, you can imagine installing and using some software from source without ever giving it sudo power, using GNU stow to install it.
<Darxus> True.  As long as the installed software isn't then run by root ever.
<Darxus> Hopefully checkinstall does something to prevent existing files from getting clobbered.  I don't know.  Never used it.
<ScottK> zooko: Where do I find the full copy of the BSD license in the upstream tarball?
 * wgrant yells out one final call for Launchpad Bugs/Soyuz priorities, before declaring that none can be submitted.
<ScottK> wgrant: How about the smarter retry stuff that we discussed?
<ScottK> I'd also go for put the old PPA page back.
<wgrant> What's wrong with the new PPA page?
<wgrant> Besides the hiding of useful information behind an extra layer of links.
<ScottK> That's it.
<ScottK> And doing it in a way that's totally unobvious how to get it back
<wgrant> I believe the front page will eventually display more user-specific information (eg. about the applications, rather than source packages), but it's not there yet.
<ScottK> I only eventually figured it out from reading bug reports
<zooko> ScottK: oops
<zooko> There is no full copy in the upstream tarball.
<ScottK> zooko: I'm going to reject this one.  Please fix that and ask your sponsor to upload again.
<zooko> The BSD licence applies only to this one file, which isn't even needed, so perhaps it would be easier to remove that file.
<wgrant> ScottK: That's a separate issue. Have you seen the new (admittedly far too small) link at the top right of the package list?
<wgrant> That was added recently.
<zooko> Will do, but please advise me on how to fix it.
<wgrant> ScottK: You use +queue to do that, I presume?
<ScottK> zooko: It needs to be added to the upstream tarball.  You can repack the tarball to do it.
<ScottK> wgrant: I saw the link after reading a bug report about it.
<wgrant> ScottK: Even after the second link was added later on?
<ScottK> wgrant: Whatever is there now.  Yes.
<zooko> Okay, so just add a file, perhaps named COPYING.BSD, with license text therein, and mention that file from the part of the "copyright" file that refers to the BSD licence, and reupload?
<wgrant> ScottK: Urgh.
<zooko> I'll have to be careful not to undo RainCT's fixes to my Ubuntu changelog when I do that.
<ScottK> zooko: Yes.  But it needs to be in the tarball, not patched in in the diff.gz.
<zooko> Hm.
<zooko> So, uh,
<zooko> Sorry, it is late.
<lifeless> there are two different issues under discussion
<lifeless> one is 'can we ship this code'
<ScottK> wgrant: On the archive management page whenever you accept or reject a package it always says OK:packagename.  It always throws me if I rejected and the response I get is OK.
<lifeless> the other is 'how we present metadata about the code to our downstreams and our users'
<wgrant> ScottK: Right, that UI sucks. That's known.
<ScottK> zooko: What lifeless says is exactly correct.
<ScottK> OK.
<zooko> So, is it that there is something about the current packaging that makes you not confident that you can ship it?
<ScottK> zooko: Yes.  The absence of a full copy of one of the licenses it relies on in the upstream tarball.
<ScottK> I'm confident that without that, I can't ship it.
<zooko> Okay, so you need a new upstream tarball to be created.  Now here's where I get confused: what version number, if any, should be in the filename of the new upstream tarball?  Does it matter?
<zooko> The current one is named tahoe-lafs-1.5.0.tar.gz
<ScottK> wgrant: Is the ability to explicitly unsubscribed from bugs one is implicitly subscribed to (e.g. via a team) on the list?
<lifeless> zooko: you could append .1; bump the 0 to 1, or call it 'muppets forever', we'll be happy.
<wgrant> ScottK: Ah, no. That's a good one.
<zooko> lifeless: Ok.
<wgrant> ScottK: That's on other lists already, but I'll add it to the MOTU one if nothing else comes up.
<zooko> Next question: RainCT uploaded something  to the Karmic Queue while fixing some bits over the "0ubuntu3" that I had uploaded to REVU.  Where can I get a copy of RainCT's version?
<ScottK> wgrant: The standard "too slow" complaint shouldn't be forgotten.
<ScottK> zooko: I've got it here locally.  I'll upload it to revu.
<wgrant> ScottK: That's not app-specific, unfortunately.
<ScottK> wgrant: soyuz u/i too slow
<zooko> ScottK thanks!
<ScottK> wgrant: Make the bug status AJAX stuff go away.  Far too many status changes with no comment now.
<ScottK> zooko: Uploaded to REVU.  It should be there in a few minutes.
<zooko> ScottK: thanks
<ScottK> wgrant: Where do I click to edit a bug?
<wgrant> ScottK: 'edit a bug'?
<wgrant> What aspect of it?
<ScottK> The description
<wgrant> The drunken exclamation mark in the tab at the top right of the description.
<ScottK> Where?  I don't see it.
<ScottK> The only one of those I see is connected to bug affects me.
<wgrant> Which browser?
<ScottK> Konqueror, of course
<ScottK> I'll try FF.
<ScottK> I see it.
<zooko> ScottK: you won't mind if I give you a tarball which just doesn't have the  BSD-licensed file in question, will you?
<ScottK> The little line that draws around it is present in Konqueror, but no icon to edit.
<ScottK> zooko: That's work too, but if you're rolling a new tarball, it seems it'd be easy enough to add.
<zooko> I mean if I upload a package containing such a tarball to REVU.
<zooko> Yes, I just started adding it but then I realized that I would be happier as upstream maintainer if I just did't have this file nor its licence...
<wgrant> There are a couple of missing icons in WebKit-based browsers. Looks like KHTML is the same.
<wgrant> Though that particular icon *is* there in WebKit.
<ScottK> WTF.  And that's release ready?
<wgrant> KHTML isn't widely tested.
<wgrant> WebKit is, and those bugs were fixed.
<Amaranth> People still use KHTML?
<wgrant> I thought most had moved on.
<wgrant> But Konqueror continues to use it, unfortunately :(
<ScottK> It's used in the default browser in Kubuntu.
<ScottK> We considered switching to Arora (webkit), but it wasn't enough better to be worth it.
<wgrant> Not being abandoned wasn't sufficient?
<ScottK> It's not abandoned.
<ScottK> It's not particularly robustly maintained, but enough web sites had problems with arora that it didn't get users past the need to install firefox.
<Amaranth> konq doesn't either
<Amaranth> Does gmail work with konq yet?
<ScottK> I don't recall.  It does at least in non-ajax mode
<Amaranth> Right, last I heard konq didn't support ajax
<ScottK> I see opera has problems in this particular area too.
<ScottK> It does, some.
<mruiz> asac, ping
<zooko> I've been using konqueror in Jaunty.
<zooko> Haven't tried with gmail.
 * ScottK too
<ScottK> wgrant: That's now 435648
<ScottK> wgrant: I guess "switch back to the LP beta tables based U/I to improve usability" hasn't much of a chance.
<wgrant> ScottK: Thanks.
<wgrant> ScottK: You mean LP 0.0?
<ScottK> Yep
<ScottK> That was the best one so far from a user perspective IMO.
<ScottK> I know the tables stuff was unmaintainable though
<wgrant> 3.0 is much better than 2.0, and possibly 1.0.
<ScottK> I liked the look at a glance.
<ScottK> So far I have a lot of trouble finding stuff.
<zooko> ScottK: our copyright file currently says: The files mac/fuse.py and mac/fuseparts/subbedopts.py are licensed under the GNU Lesser General Public Licence.  In addition, on 2009-09-21 Csaba Henk granted permission for those files to be under the same terms as Tahoe-LAFS itself.
<ScottK> zooko: I saw that.
<zooko> So, we don't need to include a copy of LGPL2, since those files are under the other licences, right?
<ScottK> A copy of the LGPL would be good too.
<zooko> Okay.
<zooko> Does the file containing LGPL need to be referred to from copyright or from anywhere?
<zooko> Or can I just drop it into the source tree.
<ScottK> Just drop it in.
<zooko> Ok.
<ScottK> wgrant: On top of it, I can't even actually edit the bug in FF.
<ScottK> Something in tiny, tiny print about not being well formed json.
<wgrant> ScottK: That affects some people some times with some types of input. It is under investigation.
<ScottK> wgrant: I didn't add anything, I just deleted text.
<wgrant> ScottK: Right. It's a very strange bug.
<ScottK> It's total crap.
<wgrant> That too.
<ScottK> wgrant: How about adding "Have it working before release" to the list.  Apparently that needs to be asked for special
<ScottK> Since I see opera bugs too, I guess they must just test with IE.
<wgrant> ScottK: It does mostly work! Sure, there are a few AJAX bugs, and some big big design issues with the new UI...
<ScottK> It works less than the previous release did.
<ScottK> That's generally considered not good.
<wgrant> Perhaps.
<wgrant> But it is a major new revision, and everyone knows they will never be perfect.
<wgrant> Particularly when it was as large a job as LP 3.0.
<ScottK> Editing a bug description is not an obscure function.
<wgrant> It's not.
<wgrant> Perhaps the AJAX should have been disabled.
<ScottK> Basic stuff like that should work.
<wgrant> Certainly. And in all but a few cases it does.
<ScottK> I'm zero for one so far.
<ScottK> And I tried it multiple times.
<wgrant> Yet I've not experienced the failure.
<ScottK> I can only form my impression of the release based on my experience.
<wgrant> Of course.
<ScottK> I do think the U/I is cleaner in some respects, but that is much more than offset by my not being able to find things.
<wgrant> Things should be in more obvious places.
<wgrant> Part of it was moving the actions that were semi-randomly scattered around the page into the global actions menu in the top right.
<wgrant> So if an action doesn't modify some value on the page, it should be in the top-right.
<wgrant> Otherwise it's next to the value, which should be fairly obvious.
<ScottK> But linking to a CVE does modify a value on the page.
<ScottK> So does linking to a branch
<wgrant> Ah, yes, those are a bit special.
<ScottK> So does marking as duplicate and converting to a question.
<ScottK> That's all the stuff in there.
<wgrant> Converting to a question does not.
<wgrant> Marking as a duplicate, linking to a CVE, and linking to a branch do not act on anything on the page if they haven't already been used.
<ScottK> I see, so making something blank, not blank doesn't count?
<Hobbsee> wgrant: I'm confused.  didn't they just try to do away with a global bar, and stick things around the page?
<ScottK> Hobbsee: They did.
<wgrant> Hobbsee: That was LP 2.0â¢
<ScottK> wgrant: Is the way the bug information on the right side is the same level as the navigation stuff (Overview/Code/Bugs/etc) on purpose?
<Hobbsee> wgrant: right
<wgrant> ScottK: That's only on the person page, and was a rather late (and unfortunate, in my opinion) addition.
 * Hobbsee pictures launchpad 4.0 in a complete tag cloud
<ScottK> wgrant: No.  It's on the bug page too.
<wgrant> ScottK: Note that the same sort of thing is used more appropriately on the project, distribution and source package pages.
<wgrant> ScottK: Maybe I'm not understanding what you're talking about?
<ScottK> The Bug number/reported by is at the same level as the navigation stuff
<wgrant> ScottK: 'bug information'?
<wgrant> Ah.
<wgrant> Right.
<wgrant> I disagree with that too!
<wgrant> That change was made less than 24 hours ago.
<wgrant> It doesn't make sense.
<wgrant> But it was previously below there, which meant it forced the bug summary to wrap.
<wgrant> That whole 'registered' line was only added a few days ago.
<wgrant> It was rather rushed.
<ScottK> wgrant: Make the U/I work again withough CSS would also be nice.  Unsubscribing without CSS has been broken since they ajax'ed it.
<wgrant> ScottK: It will degrade if you have JS off, but not sure about CSS.
<ScottK> On my phone I use neither.
<ScottK> It used to work fine.
<superm1> can you guys move this discussion to #launchpad or somewhere more appropriate?
<ScottK> It makes the U/I actually tolerable.
<ScottK> superm1: He was asking for input as MOTU rep for LP stuff.
<ScottK> If anyone else has inputs, they should give it too.
<zooko> ScottK: I gues 403 Forbidden on http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/tahoe-lafs-0909240639/tahoe-lafs_1.5.0-0ubuntu1_source.changes
<ScottK> zooko: That's correct.  You just need to dget the .dsc.
<zooko> Ah.
<ScottK> If you had the .sources file signed by me you could upload it to Ubuntu and it would be accepted.
<zooko> Nice.  :-)
<ScottK> That's why it's not available.
<ScottK> Good night everyone.
<wgrant> Night ScottK.
<zooko> ScottK: goodnight!
<zooko> Anyone else: can you help me debuild this package?
<zooko> I did it successfully (mostly) last night, but now I can't figure out how to make a package just like the previous one except with a different orig tarball.
<zooko> Oh, I think I got it...
<dholbach> good morning
<mruiz> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hola mruiz!
<mruiz> guten morgen dholbach
<dholbach> :-)
<dholbach> how are you doing?
<mruiz> fine, and you ?
<dholbach> good :)
<mruiz> upgrading my laptop to Karmic
<dholbach> good luck ;-)
<randomaction> good morning
<dholbach> hi randomaction
<randomaction> does BetaFreese affect universe?
<mruiz> dholbach, have you ever read something as "`Depends' field, reference to `epiphany-webkit': error in version: version string is empty" ?
<dholbach> randomaction: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess should clarify that
<dholbach> mruiz: where did you see that? can you pastebin a longer part of the log?
<mruiz> dholbach, sure ... wait a sec
<mruiz> dholbach, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/32146411/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-i386.epiphany-webkit_2.27.92-2ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<dholbach> I guess that (>= ${gnome:Version}) is not substituted
<dholbach> although I can't tell why it breaks there
<dholbach> "line 7 package 'epiphany-browser'" does not really exist
<mruiz> I found something related -> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=528777
<ubottu> Debian bug 528777 in epiphany-extensions "epiphany-extensions: FTBFS (hppa/unstable): `Depends' field," [Serious,Closed]
<dholbach> maybe it's about the "," at the end
<mruiz> I though the same
<mruiz> but the package was built in Debian
<dholbach> weird
<dholbach> maybe ask seb128
<mruiz> indeed
<mruiz> :D
<dholbach> he should know the /usr/share/gnome-pkg-tools/1/rules/gnome-version.mk stuff a bit better
<mruiz> dholbach, thanks :-)
<mruiz> dholbach, I've been fixing RC bugs on Debian :D
<gaspa> yawwwn
<stani> hi ScottK: thanks for the build log!
<ScottK> stani: You're welcome.  Thank you for your interest in making Ubuntu better.
<suji> hi
<suji> when i run pbuilder for my package it shows the following error http://pastebin.com/m6c269637
<geser> suji: you missing the build-dependency on pkg-config and probably libgtk2.0-dev too
<suji> geser: oh! ok, i will add them now
<suji> geser: after i add those packages in build dependencies again it shows this error http://pastebin.com/m64c66f18
<slytherin> suji: The error lies at the top of the text you pasted.
<suji> slytherin: what?
<slytherin> suji: E: Failed to fetch http://mirrors.kernel.org/ubuntu/pool/main/j/jasper/libjasper1_1.900.1-5.1_i386.deb: Size mismatch
<suji> slytherin: what to do for that? it happen because of Internet problem?
<slytherin> suji: I may be because of problem in the mirror you are using.
<slytherin> Or you can simply retry again.
<suji> slytherin: how to change that mirror?
<slytherin> suji: pbuilderrc file.
<suji> slytherin: in my ~/.pbuilderrc file i have this COMPONENTS="main universe multiverse restricted"
<slytherin> suji: after you modify the file, you will need to do sudo pbuilder --update --override-config
<suji> slytherin: what should add in that file
<slytherin> suji: Do you have something called MIRRORSITE ?
<suji> slytherin: no, i have that one line only in ~/.pbuilderrc file
<slytherin> suji: then add it, something like MIRRORSITE=http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu
<suji> slytherin: should i add this line which you gave here?
<slytherin> yes
<suji> slytherin : now also i got the same error like this
<suji> E: Failed to fetch http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/j/jasper/libjasper1_1.900.1-5.1_i386.deb: Size mismatch
<suji> E: Unable to correct for unavailable packages
<slytherin> suji: did you do 'sudo pbuilder --update --override-config' after updating the file?
<suji>  slytherin: ya i did
<slytherin> then I have no idea what the problem is.
<suji> slytherin: the output for that is here http://pastebin.com/m7129a4d4
<suji>  slytherin: can i add more than 1 mirror site in ~/.pbuilderrc?
<slytherin> I never tried that
<suji> slytherin: was the output of sudo pbuilder --update --override-config correct?
<slytherin> suji: Yes, it was correct. Looks like problem is not with mirror.
<suji> slytherin: Then what is the problem here?
<slytherin> I have no idea
<suji> slytherin: ok. Thank you for this much of help...
<c_korn> has the debian packaging always to be under gpl ? means that a package maintainer always has to provide the diff.gz when asked for ?
<c_korn> I ask because some projects create debian packages for themselves but the diff.gz is not available somewhere
<slytherin> c_korn: No it doesn't need to be available under GPL. But it will need to be available under some Free license. Usually it is available under same license as upstream.
<c_korn> fine, upstream license is LGPL. so I will ask for the diff.gz
<_ruben> if packaging is done properly by upstream or when its a native package (kinda the same), no diff.gz is avail
<c_korn> _ruben: there is no debian directory in the source tree if you mean that.
<slytherin> c_korn: which package is this?
<c_korn> slytherin: sip-communicator: http://download.sip-communicator.org/deb/binary/
<Laney> geser: + a million to your mail
<sebner> geser: great reply!
<slytherin> sebner: Laney: on which list?
<Laney> slytherin: ubuntu-devel
<sebner> Laney: Packaging help thread
<Laney> not me
<sebner> Laney: argh sry
<sebner> slytherin:  Packaging help thread
<AnAnt> DktrKranz, directhex: congrats
<directhex> thanks
<AnAnt> directhex: how much time did it take from being NM to DD ?
<directhex> https://nm.debian.org/nmstatus.php?email=directhex%40apebox.org contains all relevant dates
<slytherin> directhex: congrats
<directhex> ta
<nicklas_> hallÃ¥
<slytherin> geser: exactly what I had in mind for some time. :-)
<sharms> dholbach: thanks for looking over that bug for me
<dholbach> sharms: no worries
<DktrKranz> AnAnt: /me was a little bit older than today's mail, but thanks anyway :)
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: Would you please take a look at Bug 434972
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 434972 in phatch "Feature Freeze Exception: Please sync Phatch 0.2.1 from Debian Unstable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/434972
<sistpoty|work> *looking*
<ScottK> Thanks.
<sebner> huhu sistpoty|work ScottK =)
<sistpoty|work> hi sebner
<sebner> sistpoty|work:   	UniversitÃ¤t Erlangen grÃ¼ndet Open-Source-Forschungsgruppe  <--- wuhu ;)
<sistpoty|work> <-- different chair though. (computer achitecture) :D
<sebner> sistpoty|work: still great and you could change :P
<sistpoty|work> haha
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: ack'd
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: Thanks.
<sebner> ScottK: I'm about to leave but phatch FTBFS for me. I'll post the necessary stuff on the bug report
<jbernard_> sebner, ScottK: I'll be happy to take a look at Phatch's FTBFS if nobody else has
<sebner> ScottK: you have a FTBFS yourself and still give an ACK? I know it have to be fixed anyways but it seems to me you didn't notice that
<sebner> jbernard_: check with ScottK, I'm afk now
<jbernard_> sebner: will do
<POX> phatch FTBFS? can someone point me to build log?
<geser> POX: see https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/phatch/+bug/434972/comments/8 for the error
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 434972 in phatch "Feature Freeze Exception: Please sync Phatch 0.2.1 from Debian Unstable" [Undecided,New]
<jbernard_> yep, im getting the same error here
<geser> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/32344046/phatchlog seems to be the complete build log
<POX> damn, lat me guess /usr/*local*bin/
<POX> I will fix it after work
<geser> POX: correct: creating /tmp/buildd/phatch-0.2.1/debian/phatch-cli/usr/local
<mok0> It would be very useful to have those FTBFS'es mapped onto a dependency tree
 * POX didn't notice this bug as he fixed this cdbs' bug locally already
<POX> (and uploaded binNMU to DELAYED/7)
<POX> #537373
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sistpoty|work> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty|work
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, any news on the nginx issue?
<mok0> Hm, there's nowhere to make a comment that you've fixed a FTBFS on that test-rebuild page
<geser> mok0: no, but the package should move to the superseded section once the fixes package got uploaded (and the page updated)
<mok0> geser: ok, is that done often (page update)?
<geser> mok0: I'm not sure but it might be every 2h
<mok0> geser: alright, that's fair
<mok0> geser: would filing a lp bug for each FTBFS be a good idea?
<mok0> geser: I mean, it should happen automatically
<geser> mok0: as the problem might not be in the package itself but any other package it needs human investigation
<mok0> geser: yes that's right, but still it would be good to have the issue recorded IMO
<geser> it might even be a no bug at all e.g. if a build-dependency isn't installable because it's still in the queue on an other arch or failed there
<mok0> geser: that is also true of "ordinary" bugs
<mok0> geser: the culprit might be in another app
<mok0> geser: I've seen several bugs on the test-build list that are due to other packages failing, but there's no way to note down my findings
<mok0> geser: which means that someone else might waste time figuring out the same
<geser> mok0: yeah, a comment feature would be nice, so don't need to look at the same bugs several times just do find out that I can't do anything about it yet
<mok0> geser, also, history is lost. The same thing might happen to the same package next release
<geser> mok0: if it was a real bug then the changelog should tell it (as it was hopefully fixed) but would it really help you to know that a package ftbfs once in the past because of build ordering and one being faster then another?
<mok0> geser: well, not if the changelog tells it, but that info is often lost if the ubuntu package is superceeded
<mok0> geser: I also like to think of LP as a place where the Ubuntu dev work is documented
<geser> if you have good ideas how to improve our workflow without distributing infomations too much let us know it
<geser> e.g. it would be good to have the FTBFS list included into LP and not outside of it so it could be updated more often
<jbernard_> Laney: ive got a patch for pull-lp-source to make it work with the new LP api
<jbernard_> bug filed: Bug #436006, if anyone has a chance to take a look I'd greatly appreciate it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 436006 in ubuntu-dev-tools "pull-lp-source broken with new LP API" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/436006
<zooko> RainCT: could you please re-upload Tahoe-LAFS?  ScottK pointed out a licensing omission that I've fixed.
<tntcoda> hi, if ive made a .deb file for some software im releasing, can/how do i go about getting it in the ubuntu repos?
<kklimonda> !revu
<ubottu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<kklimonda> tntcoda: ^----
<mok0> tntcoda: you can also make a PPA on LP and distribute that way
<tntcoda> thanks alot
<tntcoda> if its a new piece of software, am i better of just advertising a link to the package on my sourceforge site? And look into repo inclusion further down the line
<mok0> tntcoda: It _will_ take a good while to get your software through review
<tntcoda> ah i see thanks, will avoid that route for now then :)
<mok0> tntcoda: ... and you need to be prepared to spend some time asking MOTUs to review it
<mok0> tntcoda: Once Karmic is out, we will restart "revu-day" each friday
<tntcoda> is there any kind of central community based package listing where i can submit it?
<mok0> tntcoda: that is the REVU site mentioned above... here it comes again
<mok0> !revu > tntcoda
<ubottu> tntcoda, please see my private message
<mok0> tntcoda: ubottu is our slave :-)
<tntcoda> thanks, sorry. I guess I will just stick to advertising in in non-mainstream package listings like forums until it gains some popularity
<mok0> tntcoda: if your users are on ubuntu, a PPA is not a bad idea
<tntcoda> ok thanks alot
<dkurochkin> hi! what is a proper section for universe network-related package? I thought it should be universe/net but lintian does not like it.
<mok0> dkurochkin: "network" probably
<mok0> dkurochkin: see what your choice is here:  http://packages.ubuntu.com/karmic/
<mok0> dkurochkin: in debian/control, you need to use one of the keywords listed here: http://people.canonical.com/~cjwatson/ubuntu-policy/policy.html/ch-archive.html#s-subsections
<mok0> dkurochkin: so yours would be "net" actually
<dkurochkin> mok0, thanks. I thought that universe is the segment. If universe is not mentioned in section, then it is not mentioned in control at all. Is this how it should be?
<mok0> dkurochkin: universe is not mentioned in the package at all
<dkurochkin> thanks@
<mok0> dkurochkin: it's defined in the archive itself
<jpds> jbernard_: Ping.
<jbernard_> jpds: shoot
<jpds> jbernard_: Just reviewed your patch for bug #436006.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 436006 in ubuntu-dev-tools "pull-lp-source broken with new LP API" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/436006
<jbernard_> jpds: did everything explode?
<jpds> jbernard_: It's usual to name the branch something like: lp:~jbernard/ubuntu-dev-tools/fix_api_change . :)
<jbernard_> jpds: ahh, good to know, thanks
<jpds> jbernard_: And then requesting a merge into the mainline with the branches equivilant of https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/ubuntu-dev-tools/trunk/+register-merge
<jpds> jbernard_: Anyway, thanks for the patch, works fine. ;)
<jpds> :)*
<Amaranth> nixternal: Hi, I can't seem to find anything on the wiki so I was hoping I could ask you about this. I used to be MOTU but let my membership expire. Should I go through the steps to apply again or is there some sort of faster route for former members?
<jbernard_> jpds: oh excellent, i was not aware of that workflow, but that makes way more sense then my approach
<jbernard_> jpds: thanks for the info
<nixternal> Amaranth: reapply, but let it be known that you were a MOTU and you are just tring to get reinstated...same process
<Amaranth> nixternal: alright
<jpds> jbernard_: No problem, thanks for the catch and fix.
<mok0> Amaranth: check out the ML archives, it happens now & then
<nixternal> unless of course I missed something recently where it changed :)
<jbernard_> jpds: No problem
<Amaranth> I don't have any recent packaging work to show, just a few commits to compiz packaging bzr
<Amaranth> I'm actually just trying to get upload access for compiz, to be honest :)
<mok0> Amaranth: write an email to ubuntu-motu@l.u.c and explain that
<Amaranth> Right, just wanted to make sure I wasn't going to get shot down right away :)
<mok0> Amaranth: oh, no
<Amaranth> mok0: Although it should be motu-council@l.u.c, no?
<mok0> Amaranth: if you prefer
<mok0> Amaranth: ... but you need advocates among the ordinary MOTU population :-)
<Amaranth> hmm, guess I can't rely on the Desktop Team there :)
<mok0> Amaranth: vorian recently rejoined
<mok0> Amaranth: if you check out the ML archive in june
<mok0> Amaranth: jcorbier rejoined march 09, imbrandon april 09, bluekuja july 09
<mok0> Gotta go see you later
<geser> Amaranth: to reapply, it's a light-weight process: write a mail to MC about it, add yourself to the meeting agenda, be there and ready to answer some questions :)
<Laney> jbernard_: I didn't know it was broken!
<Laney> infact I used it just last night
<jbernard_> Laney: well, it was only broken for a short time ;)
<jbernard_> at least for me, please feel free to verify
<Laney> I trust you :)
<Laney> I don't like that bit of the code anyway
<Laney> is there an API way to get the dsc?
<jbernard_> hmm, there may be, but im not sure
<Laney> never mind, that's another issue
<Laney> you are very free to fix it though
<jbernard_> it's fixed in trunk now, i would expect that to be released soon
<Laney> i'll upload it later
<jbernard_> awesome, thanks!
<Laney> thank *you*!
<geser> Laney: IIRC there is a bug about it (getting the files through the API) but it's still open
<ScottK> sebner: It's because I can't read (phatch FTBFS).  Thanks for catching it.
<geser> Laney: bug 394827
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 394827 in soyuz "export SourcePackagePublishingHistory.files via the webservice" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/394827
<jtimberman> can any MOTU take a look at LP bug 424576 and bug 420674 ? Chef debdiff is in former and libmixlib-config-ruby needs a sync from Debian sid.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 424576 in chef "Chef new upstream version 0.7.10" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/424576
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 420674 in libmixlib-config-ruby "Update libmixlib-config-ruby to new upstream version 1.0.12" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/420674
<juliux> hi tried to build a package from perlbal with some extra patches, for that i checkout the source from http://code.sixapart.com/svn/perlbal/tags/Perlbal-1.72/, then i created a debian/patches dir and put my patches in there, then i added the debian/rules file like founded in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems#Patching Without a Patch System is that the right way?
<juliux> i try to build the packe then with dpkg-buildpackage -S -rfakeroot  but my patches donÂ´t get applied
<fabrice_sp> juliux, is the package in Ubuntu?
<juliux> fabrice_sp: not yet
<juliux> fabrice_sp: but i need it for a ubuntu server setup;)
<fabrice_sp> juliux, in that case, you should use a patch system
<juliux> fabrice_sp: any favorites?
<fabrice_sp> hmm, I like quilt, but if you use cdbs, it's easy to use the 'native' patch system
<geser> juliux: the one you like best
<juliux> geser: one for a beginner;)
<juliux> geser: btw we have some free slots at ubucon-de left;9
<dkurochkin> hi, fabrice_sp. Thank you for reviewing polygraph package. Can we discuss your comments?
<fabrice_sp> dkurochkin, sure
<geser> juliux: all are pretty easy, although I prefer dpatch a little bit
<juliux> geser: is there a howto to read?
<dkurochkin> fabrice_sp, Is it ok to have a one placeholder man page pointing to the web site, and for all binaries man pages use .so macro to refer to it?
<fabrice_sp> dkurochkin, as a user, I prefer to have something that explain what the program do, or at least, in my system
<fabrice_sp> I don't know what polygraph do, and I only see a huge bunch of programs :-)
<dkurochkin> I understand that. But it would take much time to write proper man pages. I agree that this is a bug. But does it stop package from entering the archive?
<geser> juliux: are you using only debhelper or also cdbs?
<juliux> geser: only debhelper
<fabrice_sp> dkurochkin, is there some existing 'doc' that can  be reused?
<juliux> geser: that is the point where i start http://code.sixapart.com/svn/perlbal/tags/Perlbal-1.72/
<dkurochkin> fabrice_sp, online only. I do not think there is a simple way to convert it to man pages.
<sebner> ScottK: nvm =)
<fabrice_sp> dkurochkin, even a simple one? With just the program description and flags? Also, I don't know if it will prevent your package to enter the archive
<fabrice_sp> dkurochkin, anyway, no new packages will be added now that we are so close from the release date for Karmic, so you will have to wait for the next version
<dkurochkin> fabrice_sp, option list is available through --help.
<geser> juliux: in that case quilt should be probably the easiest to add (see /usr/share/doc/quilt/README.Debian, Using quilt in other packages or if you want to use dpatch adapt the examples from /usr/share/doc/dpatch/examples/rules/rules.dh.gz)
<fabrice_sp> dkurochkin, so a simple manpage can be description, and --help flag
<fabrice_sp> anyway, it's up to upstream to do ti :-)
<fabrice_sp> (maybe, you are upstream ? )
<dholbach> fabrice_sp, mterry, mdeslaur: welcome to the team - you're now in :)
<fabrice_sp> thanks dholbach :-)
<dkurochkin> fabrice_sp, yes, I do some upstream development
<mdeslaur> thanks dholbach
<fabrice_sp> is there a 'new motu' wiki page?
<mterry> dholbach, sweet
 * mterry goes mad with power
<fabrice_sp> dkurochkin, a simple manpage would help your user, and you can add a reference to --help and the url of the online help
 * fabrice_sp goes scared by the power
<dkurochkin> fabrice_sp, sounds like a good option.
<sebner> ScottK: POX: anyone around of you?
<ScottK> sebner: Yeah
<dholbach> have a great rest of your day! see you tomorrow!
<sebner> ScottK: I now testbuilt phatch -2 and it works now. But the applications is not usable /here. If I start it apport catches up. I'll post the message. Give me a sec
<juliux> geser: is there a howto online which explain how to work with quilt?
<sebner> gn8 dholbach =)
<dkurochkin> fabrice_sp, what is the correct maintainer field? You said it is wrong, but suggested the same address :)
<dholbach> bye sebner
<ScottK> sebner: We need stani to discuss that then.
<fabrice_sp_> dkurochkin, sorry. Got disconnected
<dkurochkin> fabrice_sp, what is the correct maintainer field?
<sebner> ScottK: kk, do you know when he is online? I'll be away for another hour in some minutes. Here the log when I start phatch up (the icon appears though), apport starts: http://paste.ubuntu.com/277300/
<POX> sebner: sebner did you install phatch-cli?
<POX> phatch depends on it
<geser> juliux: when I need to work with quilt (and didn't use it much in the last time) I use: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems#quilt%20%28example%20package:%20xterm%29
<sebner> POX: YES! as I said the phatch Icon appears,
<geser> POX: do you have a hilight on phatch?
<POX> sebner: /usr/share/phatch/data/geek.txt is provided by phatch-cli
<juliux> geser: that i have done but how should i add that to debian/rules
<juliux> ?
<POX> geser: no, I have one on "POX", though :)
<sebner> POX: sebner@ubuntu:~$ less /usr/share/phatch/data/geek.txt
<sebner> /usr/share/phatch/data/geek.txt: No such file or directory
<fabrice_sp_> dkurochkin, the one done by update-maintainer
<fabrice_sp_> Ubuntu Developers <ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com>
<sebner> POX: ./usr/local/share/phatch/data/geek.txt
<POX> damn, it needs --install-data as well?
 * POX is uploading -3
<sebner> POX: everything in /usr/local
<geser> juliux: the quilt readme file I mentioned show how to add it easily (include the quilt.make file, and modify the targets to get patches applied/deapplied)
<POX> well, I'll use --prefix instead
<POX> this shoud fix it for good
<POX> should
<sebner> POX: not everything. Half of it ^^
<sebner> POX: http://paste.ubuntu.com/277306/
 * POX will create Ubuntu env. first
<POX> sebner: could you replace --install-scripts=/usr/bin with --prefix=/usr and build it again?
<POX> (just to test it)
<sebner> POX: I can but I'm afk now for a hour :\
<POX> ok, hour should be enough to download all the ubuntu packages
<juliux> geser: i have followed the howto but the patches don't get applied :(
<chrisccoulson> congrats fabrice_sp!
<juliux> geser: ah don't read your last message
<fabrice_sp_> chrisccoulson, thanks :-)
<juliux> geser: btw i don't have the REAME.Debian file;)
<sharms> If anyone gets a chance to review this for me that would be great
<sharms> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/minicom/+bug/436082
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 436082 in minicom "Fix FTBFS" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<geser> juliux: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/karmic/quilt/karmic/annotate/head%3A/debian/README.Debian
<sebner> POX: do you still need testing?
 * POX is still creating base.tgz
<POX> so yes
<sebner> POX: kk
<POX> if you'll confirm that --prefix works fine, I'll upload
<POX> though
<POX> I'm 99% sure it will work fine
<POX> ok, downloaded
<sebner> POX: heh, anyways, I've discovered the main reason it can't work
<POX> building...
<sebner> POX: you are using cdbs instead of dh7 :P :P :P  yeah, /me testbuilding also right now
<juliux> geser: thanks for your help, it worked;)
<POX> sebner: I'm using everything (I'm a sponsor, so I have to know all the tools)
<POX> ;-P
<sebner> POX: but you are also maintainer :P
<POX> sebner: I even NMUed cdbs to fix this bug in Debian
<sebner> POX: bah, dealing with the devil and his black magic :\
<sebner> POX: Confirmed! Working now like a charm
<POX> ok, I'm uploading
<POX> sebner: test it for a while, Phatch is really nice :)
<sebner> POX: I'm trying out the actions and my image never changes *cough*
<sebner> aha
<sebner> folder on Desktop
<sebner> !
<sebner> ^^
<POX> you can change destination in the action
<sebner> POX: right, nice tool. Please tell me if -3 is in incomming. I want to give it a final testbuild and install before I give my ACK
<POX> should be already there
<sebner> POX: nope,
<sebner> POX: still no -3
<POX> I uploaded it long time ago (still waiting for DAK message, though)
<sebner> kk
<POX> http://people.debian.org/~piotr/phatch_0.2.1-3.dsc
<sebner> POX: Wondering why -3 doesn't override -2 in incomming
<sebner> POX: ACKED! :)
<POX> great
<sebner> POX: thx for your hard work :)
<POX> I have python2.6 isntalled (from experimental)
<POX> it's not the default one, though
<sebner> POX: haha. ubuntu bleeding edge ftw!
<POX> sebner: do you want to know how many packages you missed to fix for 2.6 in Ubuntu?  ;)
<ScottK> I think the original model for for Ubuntu to be with/behind Sid and ahead of Testing.
 * ScottK wishes to go back to that.
<POX> sebner: see debian-python for some details
<sebner> POX: hehe, nahh I'm normally not into pyhton
<sebner> ScottK: bleeding edge ftw! :P You are right for some components though
<POX> sebner: it's still better than what you did with python2.5 (over 100 broken packages for >2 years)
<sebner> POX: /me != ubuntu :P
<sebner> POX: the can top that with python3 IMHO *cough*
<sebner> *the = we
<POX> well, if you want, I can give you some examples how badly you do Python transitions in Ubuntu
<POX> I wanted to convince doko to do transitions in Debian, no luck
<sebner> POX: I don't touch python stuff, complain to DktrKranz and ScottK :P
<POX> both of them don't like how python is handled in Ubuntu
<sebner> POX: so doko is the culprit?
<POX> DktrKranz, ScottK: right?
<POX> yup
<sebner> POX: we (pkg-cli) do transition in Debian though, the best/softest solution
<Laney> yeah I'm not happy with the way the transition(s) went
<Laney> no management
<sebner> Laney: \o/
<Laney> hi there sebner
<zooko> ScottK: You suggested that I have my "sponsor" "upload" Tahoe-LAFS again.  Is my "sponsor" somebody like RainCT who kindly offers to move Tahoe-LAFS from REVU to the Karmic Queue?  And is that event what "uploading" is?
<maco> i can haz sponsor? bug 436145
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 436145 in hunspell-en-us "hunspell & aspell don't recognize "misandry" as a word" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/436145
<maco> zooko: that sounds about right to me...
<sebner> mterry: congratulations ;)
<mterry> sebner, :)  thanks
<maco> oh yeah, "plz?"
<ScottK> zooko: Yes
<ScottK> zooko: Or you could talk mterry into doing it.  He can do that now.
 * mterry pokes ScottK in the side
<ScottK> maco: hunspell-en-us is in Main, so you need a main sponsor for that.
<ScottK> mterry: It's good practice.
<maco> ScottK: james_w said he'd do it as soon as beta freeze is over
<ScottK> OK
<mterry> ScottK: :)  I don't what you're referencing, but I can certainly sponsor something
<maco> ScottK: and yeah i know, but i figure there *are* some core-devs here
<maco> example: you :)
<ScottK> mterry: Look at zooko's comment ~35 minutes ago
<ScottK> maco: Yes, but I'm not at a box that has any keys on it.
<zooko> mterry: will you please upload Tahoe-LAFS: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/tahoe-lafs
<mterry> ScottK: wasn't here for that.  Skipped out due to wifi issues
<maco> ScottK: its ok. theres a freeze anyway
<ScottK> mterry: I rejected it last night for lack of a full, verbatim copy of all the Licenses in the upstream tarball.  He says he's fixed that now.
<mterry> zooko, I'll look at it today.  Am busy this second.  If you need it faster, poke someone else.  Else I'll get to it
<zooko> mterry: thanks!  If I see someone else pokable, I will poke then, because I'm very eager to get this in an apt-gettable so that a bunch of my users can test it out in its new Karmic home.
<zooko> james_w: poke?
<james_w> hello zooko
<zooko> Hi there!  Are you drunk?
<james_w> not yet
<zooko> Good!  How would you like to upload Tahoe-LAFS: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/tahoe-lafs
<james_w> where do I find it
<james_w> aha!
<jcastro> tahoe looks interesting
<zooko> jcastro: have you seen this: http://allmydata.org/source/tahoe/trunk/docs/about.html
<jcastro> yeah, I was just waiting for it to go into ubuntu to play with it
<james_w> zooko: ./mac/10.4/fuseparts/_fusemodule.so
<zooko> Cool!
<zooko> james_w: :-(  Is that in there.
<james_w> yep
<james_w> and stuff like ./windows/winfuse/NeoGeo.Library.SMB.Provider.dll
<zooko> So, how about I build a new package by downloading the current package, /bin/rm -rf ./mac, repack the upstream tarball, build a new package.
<zooko> Is that a good str
<zooko> /bin/rm -rf ./mac ./windows
<zooko>  /bin/rm -rf ./mac ./windows
<james_w> that would work
<zooko> Was that always in there?  I wonder if I accidentally regressed the packaging work that Brian Warner and RainCT have already done...
<ScottK> It's generally OK if stuff for other OS is in the source, but it shouldn't go in the binary.
<james_w> yeah, it's not a blocker, providing that it is distributable
<zooko> Oh, fine then (although we really *shouldn't* have binary gunk in our tarballs...)
<james_w> and that if it is (L)GPL licensed the source must be there as well
<zooko> Those are distributable, under the same licences as Tahoe-LAFS itself.
<zooko> Hm.
<ScottK> zooko: But is the source to build them in there too?
<zooko> I'm not sure about where the source is.  :-(
<zooko> Better get rid of it.  Been wanting to anyway.
<ScottK> Best remove it then.
<zooko> But, I'm at work and don't have access to my Linux system for now, so it will have to wait til tonight.
<james_w> and I'm having trouble seeing the source for the fuseparts stuff, which appears to be LGPL
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, any news on the nginx issue?
<zooko> How do I find on REVU which is the upload that RainCT did?
<james_w> zooko: I could do it for you, but the more I do with it the more I will feel the need to get someone else to do the final review
<james_w> zooko: if I stand back from this bit I can review it from the queue tomorrow morning if it is still there
<zooko> Oh, I'll look at this one: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=6899
<zooko> james_w: thank you for the offer.
<zooko> Both offers.  :-)
<zooko> Okay I see that the one Brian uploaded also had this binary goop in it.
<ScottK> RoAkSoAx: Didn't get a chance to look.
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, ok.
<zooko> james_w: I added a comment to http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/tahoe-lafs . You might want to double-check that my thinking is correct.  I intend to work on this tonight.
<james_w> zooko: we only require source if the license requires source
<james_w> the main requirement is to have clear licensing that permits redistribution of the binaries
<james_w> the GPL grants that, but with a source requirement
<james_w> so fulfilling the main requirement sometimes requires source
<james_w> we can navigate this if needed, but if you want to rip it out then do so, it makes it much easier
<zooko> join #tahoe to see the automatic bot message saying that I just committed a patch to trunk to rip out binaries. :-)
<zooko> Okay committed patches to Tahoe-LAFS trunk to rip out the binaries so that the Tahoe-LAFS hackers can begin the healing process of fixing the build system to build from source.  :-)
<zooko> Tonight I'll try to build a new package for Karmic and put it on the revu ticket.
<mterry> zooko: (has been in and out) so I should wait then?  k
<zooko> mterry: yes, I don't have anything ready to upload.  :-(  Thanks!
<Laney> wow
<Laney> minicom has interesting packaging
<Laney> sharms: Can you convert your patch to a diff in debian/patches?
<geser> zooko: have you tried to use a watch file for tahoe-lafs?
<zooko> geser: not yet.  There hasn't been a new stable release of Tahoe-LAFS since we started the Ubuntu-packaging project anyway.
<geser> zooko: I've seen that your get-orig-source only download the tar.gz (and renames it) which could be replaced with uscan and debian/watch file (if it works with cheeseshop.python.org)
<zooko> geser: thanks.
<zooko> Oh, james_w, if that offer is still open, would you go ahead and generate a Tahoe-LAFS package on REVU just like the most recent one but minus these files: ./mac/10.4, ./mac/10.5, ./windows/winfuse .
<zooko> And since you would then be less comfortable uploading it to the Karmic Queue, perhaps mterry would do so.
<zooko> I committed these patches to Tahoe-LAFS trunk and watched the buildbots test it: http://allmydata.org/trac/tahoe/changeset/4064 http://allmydata.org/trac/tahoe/changeset/4063
<zooko> As expected, removing those binaries did not break anything except the build of the WinFUSE module on Windows, which by rights belongs to a different project anyway.
#ubuntu-motu 2009-09-25
<Laney> oh pants
<Laney> should have incremented the u-d-t version
<Laney> too tired to do it now
<sharms> Laney: I converted it and reassigned
<lamalex> Hey guys, how can I pass added configure flags to a package if I want to repackage it? It's using autofoo?
<lamalex> ah, figured it out but now it's failing :( guess I need to look at it more
<ripps> Is there a guide to help cdbs users to use dh7? I learned to package using cdbs, but now it seems that dh7 is superior to it and I want to learn how.
<zooko> Okay folks, there is a new package of Tahoe-LAFS at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/tahoe-lafs . It fixes all known licensing issues.
<lifeless> \o/
<mzz> ripps: I thought debhelper was actually used by cdbs? What's telling you using it directly is superior?
<lifeless> mzz: dh7 has much of the same 'magic' cdbs does
<mzz> man
<mzz> is there some document somewhere everyone but me is reading that explains what the best tools are right now
<lifeless> no
<mzz> bah
<ripps> It just seems I should learn how to actually use debhelper, instead of just relying on cdbs to do it for me.
<mzz> is that just because such a document would be too controversial, in an editor flamewar kind of way, or because nobody has gotten around to writing one, or what?
<lifeless> ripps: by that argument one should learn assembler rather than depending on  gcc :P
<lifeless> I'll grant its good knowledge
<lifeless> mzz: allof the above, I suspect
<ripps> Actually, I have learned some assembly...
<mzz> well, one thing about cdbs is that sometimes one of its steps did something bad to my package and it was hard to drop in some debugging before that step
<mzz> if my Makefile just ran a whole lot of dh_* helpers I'd have more obvious spots to put extra checks
<mzz> cdbs does have hooks, but figuring out what they all are is nontrivial, unless I missed yet another doc
<lifeless> man debhelper
<mzz> and yeah, debhelper's manpages are pretty good, at least the ones I've read so far
<lamalex> Hey guys, can anyone see what's failing here? http://paste2.org/p/436324 <-- output http://paste2.org/p/436325 <-- rules file
<ScottK> RoAkSoAx: Here is my advice:  Get a security update into Jaunty that adds the patch to 0.6.35-0ubuntu1 (presumably 0.6.35-0ubuntu1.1) and then backport that to Hardy/Intrepid.  You should also get a security update for the released versions in Hardy/Intrepid.
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, ok thanks! will do then :)
<fabrice_sp> Hi. What rights should I have to be able to unsubscribe  u-u-s ?
<fabrice_sp> Can some MOTU unsubscribe u-u-s from #417036 ?
<fabrice_sp> bug #417036
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 417036 in psi "Psi 0.13 in Karmic?" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/417036
<wrapster> what are the necessary files to build any pkg? coz after i apt-get source <pkg> i see a lot of files are all those necessary? since i've also seen pkgs being build without any of those files....
<mzz> please be more specific
<mzz> the files not in the debian/ directory are normally from the upstream source tarball, which may contain a few things that aren't actually necessary, depending on how tidy upstream is
<fabrice_sp> wrapster, all the ones in debian directory
<mzz> everything in debian/ should serve some purpose
<wrapster> fabrice_sp: no.. but one moment i'll do a pastie and you can understand better
<fabrice_sp> yes: build the package
<fabrice_sp> ?
<fabrice_sp> !pastebin | wrapster
<ubottu> wrapster: pastebin is a service to post multiple-lined texts so you don't flood the channel. Ubuntu pastebin is at  http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://tinyurl.com/imagebin | !pastebinit to paste directly from  command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic
<fabrice_sp> (just in case)
<mzz> "pastie" usually means they know that already, in my experience
<fabrice_sp> anyway: have to go. bye
<wrapster> http://pastie.org/630039
<wrapster> have a look at that.. i dwd the source into a dir called binutils under which i had another dir with the pkg name here can i delete all the files except changelog, debian/,copyright?
<mzz> I don't understand how your pastebin relates to your question
<mzz> your pastebin lists the stuff in the binutils source, not the debianization of that
<wrapster> mzz may be iwas not clear..one moment.
<wrapster> http://pastie.org/630039
<mzz> yes.
<wrapster> now .... my question is ,is it enough to just have debian/ changelog and copyright files within the "binutils-2.18.1~cvs20080103" dir and then yet run dpkg-buildpackage to generate the pkg?
<mzz> wait, where'd the debian.diff.gz go?
<wrapster> oops
<wrapster> that was not even downloaded
<wrapster> :(
<mzz> perhaps there isn't one
<mzz> (this may be a "native" package)
<mzz> anyway!
<mzz> you seem to be root. Stop being that. You shouldn't be root for most, if not all, of the packaging process.
<mzz> the stuff in the first "ls" is what I'd expect to get from apt-get source, although normally there's also a .diff.gz
<mzz> the stuff in the second "ls" is what's present in the binutils (upstream) source tree, plus a debian/ directory.
<wrapster> correct
<mzz> what's present in the upstream source tree obviously varies wildly between upstream projects.
<mzz> what's present here doesn't strike me as very unusual.
<mzz> so I don't understand what you don't understand.
<wrapster> hee hee
<mzz> (since your original question was something like "coz after i apt-get source <pkg> i see a lot of files are all those necessary? since i've also seen pkgs being build without any of those files....")
<wrapster> ok in that case.. what i wanted to point out was i see a lot of files in the upstream dir...
<wrapster> are all those necessary? except for the debian?
<mzz> depends on how tidy upstream is
<mzz> most of them tend to be
<mzz> there may be some things in there that aren't installed because they're only interesting to those working on the source package
<mzz> there may also be some things that are only necessary to rebuild the build system, which may actually be useful here since it seems to be a snapshot
<mzz> there may be stuff that's only used on other platforms
<mzz> there may be stuff that isn't built for whatever reason (experimental, dependency not packaged, etc)
<mzz> I think most of what you see here is indeed necessary
<siretart> do new packages require a FFe, or are they simply not acceptable? Opencore finally ended up in debian, and there are quite some very vocal bug reporters requiring amr support in ffmpeg
<siretart> siretart: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess#FeatureFreeze%20for%20new%20packages
<AnAnt> Hello, does ubuntu care about armel architecture ?
<AnAnt> LP 427562
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 427562 in tablelist "tklib already contain tablelist package" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/427562
<DaveMorris> I've previously generated some packages from a source package called opensg.  I want to rename the generated packages from this source archive, so that they can be installed alongside version 2 of opensg.  Do you simply create a new revision of the source package with the new package names and upload it?
<directhex> DaveMorris, yes.
<directhex> DaveMorris, but it'll land in the NEW queue due to the new binary packages. and you need to provide valid Replaces: etc lines in debian/control
<DaveMorris> directhex: I assume they are of the format Replaces: <package name> then
<directhex> with adequate versioning. read the debian nm guide
<slytherin> wgrant: ping, is it possible to add a category for java packages at http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/multidistrotools/ I believe section=java should be sufficient for now for filtering.
<wgrant> slytherin: Have a http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/multidistrotools/java.html
<slytherin> wgrant: Great, thanks.
<wgrant> slytherin: np
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<directhex> hyperair, thoughts on requesting a FFe for Banshee? since it's staying in universe for now, i see no benefit to sticking with the old stable version when the beta is more reliable
<hyperair> directhex: i wouldn't mind.
<directhex> hm. who's in motu-release & can give their informal opinion?
<randomaction> for those working of FTBFS, here's a list of problematic universe packages sorted by popularity: http://paste.ubuntu.com/277970/
<directhex> 681 ftbfs bugs? lawks
<sistpoty|work> directhex: https://launchpad.net/~motu-release/+members and at this point, I don't have an informal opinion about a banshee FFe yet, to be honest
<LucidFox> Hmm
<LucidFox> libtheora 1.1 is out
<slytherin> LucidFox: Great, But we won't get it in karmic. :-(
<slytherin> LucidFox: The 1.1 release is API/ABI compatible, so theoretically there should be no problem in pulling it in karmic. :-)
<lamalex> Hey, does anyone know anything about intltool? It's failing with a strange error  Ican't figure out
<lamalex> Invalid [] range "F-8" in regex; marked by <-- HERE in m/[encoding: UTF-8 <-- HERE ]
<lamalex> at /usr/bin/intltool-update line 321, <FILE> line 1.
<randomaction> apparently it thinks [encoding: UTF-8] is a regex, try escaping brackets with \
<lamalex> the weird part is it works on other files
<lamalex> which when I compare the hexdumps, are identical up until the point where files start getting listed
<lamalex> I can't figure out why it's trying to read that as a regexp
<randomaction> it must be confused by "m/" part which looks like a start of regex match
<lamalex> there's no m/ in the file
<lamalex> http://paste2.org/p/437195
<lamalex> randomaction: ^
<randomaction> i see
<lamalex> I thought maybe there was a hidden char or something, but hexdump says not the case
<AnAnt> Hello, how can I check if a package is in build-dep of any other package in Ubuntu ?
<zooko> Morning folks! (UTC-6)
<zooko> Good day over there in, I'm guessing, UTC-5, mterry.
<zooko> Would you please look at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/tahoe-lafs ?  I believe it is ready to be uploaded into the Karmic Queue.
<jmarsden> AnAnt: apt-cache depends PACKAGENAME
<jmarsden> AnAnt: Ah, wait, that is for depends not build-depends...
<geser> AnAnt: reverse-build-depends (from ubuntu-dev-tools) or using grep-dctrl
<Lichi> Hi, can someone help me with creating .deb files?
<Lichi> Hello?
<AnAnt> thanks
<Lichi> I was told to ask here, help would be nice
<AnAnt> geser: I need dpkg-src lines in sources.list for that ?
<sistpoty|work> AnAnt: yes
<sistpoty|work> !packagingguide
<geser> yes, as only the Sources.gz files contain this information
<ubottu> The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<sistpoty|work> Lichi: ^^
<Lichi> thanks
<AnAnt> LP 427562
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 427562 in tablelist "tklib already contain tablelist package" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/427562
<AnAnt> LP 436733
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 436733 in obextool "Depend on tklib instead of tablelist" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/436733
<AnAnt> I attached a patch to LP 436733
<AnAnt> should I set it to confirmed ?
<fabrice_sp> AnAnt, you should at least subscribe u-u-s :-)
<AnAnt> I don't have a Source.gz (and I have a low bandwidth internet), can someone run: "reverse-build-depends tablelist" for me please ?
<AnAnt> fabrice_sp: ok
<fabrice_sp> AnAnt, I've run it and it doesn't give any package
<fabrice_sp> should I download something first?
<AnAnt> fabrice_sp: thanks ! I just wanted to make sure
<AnAnt> fabrice_sp: can you mention this in LP 427562 please ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 427562 in tablelist "tklib already contain tablelist package" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/427562
<fabrice_sp> ok. I'll paste the result
<fabrice_sp> output, I mean
<AnAnt> ok
<AnAnt> thanks
<fabrice_sp> ;-)
<AnAnt> so should I set LP 436733 to confirmed, since I attached a debdiff patch to it ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 436733 in obextool "Depend on tklib instead of tablelist" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/436733
<AnAnt> bddebian: Hello
<fabrice_sp> AnAnt, better to confirmed, yes, but it doesn't really matter
<fabrice_sp> it matters for sync requests
<bddebian> Hi AnAnt, what do you need this time? :)
<fabrice_sp> Hey bddebian :-)
<fabrice_sp> TheMuso, persia could you add me to the u-u-s team please?
<AnAnt> bddebian: remember tablelist that was removed from Debian
<AnAnt> bddebian: it was removed because it was already included in tklib, so, I am trying to remove it from Ubuntu too, so I filed those bugs: LP 436733 & LP 427562
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 436733 in obextool "Depend on tklib instead of tablelist" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/436733
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 427562 in tablelist "tklib already contain tablelist package" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/427562
<fabrice_sp> Can some MOTU unsubscribe u-u-s from Bug #406574 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 406574 in gjots2 "please update gjots2 to 2.3.8 (complete patch included)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/406574
<Laney> done and done
<Laney> arent you in uus?
<wrapster> Guys I have a curious question... When i apt-get <pkg> supposing it says dependency1 is missing install it first.. is there anyway that I can actually hardcode it into <pkg> so that when i apt-get <pkg> it will first check whether the dependency is satisfied if not it will automatically download it and then proceed with the <pkg> installation?
<AnAnt> ?!
<fabrice_sp> Laney, no: it seems new MOTU are not automatically added to u-u-s (that's why I pinged persian and TheMuso before)
<Laney> yeah that's right
<AnAnt> wrapster: that's what apt-get does !
<wrapster> AnAnt: one moment ...
<wrapster> i'll give you a real world eg
<AnAnt> brb
<wrapster> AnAnt: what i wanted to say was... supposing i want to dpkg-buildpackage binutils.. it complains that tcl8.4 is necessary as some library that binutils checks for is a part of tcl8.4 ... so is there a way I can actually just say build bintuils and when the dpkg-buildpackage is running can it check and install tcl if not present?
<fabrice_sp> wrapster: this is what Build-depends is for in debian/control)
<wrapster> oh so supposing i put tcl in the control file that should do the trick?
<nicklas_> huj
<sharms> If anyone gets a chance can anyone review LP 436082 -- I added patch that resolves FTBFS
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 436082 in minicom "Fix FTBFS" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/436082
<joaopinto> wrapster, you don't apt-get <pkg>, you apt-get install <pkg>, and that should not tell you that a dependency is missing, if it does, then you are missing a dependency for that app on your repository
<joaopinto> so, presumably that dependency is already listed on debian/control
<wrapster> joaopinto: yeah your right.. i corrected my mistake.. the error was during the build-package
<joaopinto> ah ok
<wrapster> i meant when im building the pkg from source if i get an error saying a dependency is missing then if i add that into the control file... will that be sufficient?
<fabrice_sp> can some other MOTU have a look at Bug #406574. I don't know how to answer :-/
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 406574 in gjots2 "please update gjots2 to 2.3.8 (complete patch included)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/406574
<fabrice_sp> (to a pissed off contributor, I mean)
<ubuntu_giant> Grrr...I'm having a problem with updating a package given the following tutorial (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/PackageUpdate), but the error output tripped pastebin's spam filter.
<ubuntu_giant> Maybe I could paste the last few lines?
<ubuntu_giant> Is it okay if I paste the last few lines?
 * ubuntu_giant sometimes wonders if anyone is alive in these chat rooms. :(
<AnAnt> ubuntu_giant: so do I
<geser> depends on the day and the time of the day
<geser> don't forget that it's friday evening in europe so some people do other activities instead of IRC
<ubuntu_giant> I've been following the tutorial at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/PackageUpdate, and I'm having some trouble, but pastebin won't let me paste my error output because it's supposedly spam.  Would it be alright if I paste the last few lines?  Thanks.
<geser> based on the actual activity here I guess nobody would object
<ubuntu_giant> Cool, I got it...it's not all the output, but enough. http://pastebin.com/d7c9c47a2
<geser> did you use dch to edit the changelog?
<ubuntu_giant> Yes.
<geser> can you pastebin the changelog around line 13-15?
<ubuntu_giant> I followed the steps exactly (except for my name and email, of course).
<RoAkSoAx> fabrice_sp, congrats on your motuship :)
<ubuntu_giant> Sorry, I'm sort of new to this packaging thing.  What would the changelog be?
<geser> debian/changelog, and please pastebin around the first 20 lines (as it complains about line 13 and 15)
<ubuntu_giant> Sorry about that. :( http://pastebin.com/d50065e93
<geser> I assume it's about line 3: each line needs to be indented with at least 2 spaces (besides the header (like line 1 or 7) or the footer (like line 5 or 18)
<fabrice_sp> RoAkSoAx, thanks ;-)
<sebner> geser: evidently not us *cough*
<geser> sebner: I'm gaming now a little and only watch IRC now at then :)
<sebner> geser: heh nice, lucky you didn't write "go out or social activities" ^^
* Cut-R changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: BANDES DE PEDOPHILES VIOLEURS MANIPULATEURS MENTEURS FILS DE PUTES ENCULÃS TROUS DU CUL MAGOUILLEURS ABUSEURS D'ENFANTS !!!
<fabrice_sp> WTF?
* slangasek changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Karmic Feature Freeze is in effect now! | Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://is.gd/2y76G | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS/ | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/debcheck | latest rebuild failures: http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20090909-karmic.html
<Pici> I reported that guy earlier...
<sebner> slangasek: thx for changing it back
<fabrice_sp> thanks slangasek
<slangasek> sure
<ubuntu_giant> geser: Sorry, but indenting the lines seemed to make it worse. :(
<slangasek> somebody reported him to the freenode ops?
<geser> ubuntu_giant: worse? you only indented line 3, right?
<slangasek> (preventative measure; someone please remind me to remove the topic lock later)
<ubuntu_giant> Oh, no.  Sorry, overread the line 3 thing.
<ubuntu_giant> Read the rest of the post. :)
<ubuntu_giant> It says it's a gpg error, so I wouldn't think the changelog would have anything to do with it.
<geser> the gpg error you can ignore for now (unless you plan to upload the package somewhere)
<geser> it happens when your name in line 5 doesn't match one of your gpg key uid so debuild can't figure out itself which key to use
<geser> you can use the -k option to tell which key to use for signing
<ubuntu_giant> I redid the changing line 3, but I still get the error.
<geser> the same error?
<ubuntu_giant> No, a different error, actually.  I'll post it in a sec...
<ubuntu_giant> http://pastebin.com/d1e38bd5
<geser> I see only the signing error, which you can ignore untill you want to upload it somewhere
<tzafrir_laptop> hi, I'm trying to build -modules packages from zaptel-source in a pbuilder
<tzafrir_laptop> I made a dummy package that builds them. It basically works on Debian:
<ubuntu_giant> Cool...spam filter didn't trip: http://pastebin.com/d701ad710
<tzafrir_laptop> http://svn.debian.org/viewsvn/pkg-voip/tools/builder/zaptel-modules/debian/
<tzafrir_laptop> This package is a helper package. It builds, but does not get into the repository
<tzafrir_laptop> I'm trying to build it with hardy, and I see two errors when pbuilder tries to get dependencies:
<tzafrir_laptop> zaptel-source: Depends: module-assistant (>= 0.8.1) which is a virtual package
<tzafrir_laptop> pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy: Depends: linux-headers-2.6.26-2-all which is a virtual package.
<tzafrir_laptop> Now I figure that I'll have to adjust the kernel version, and maybe not even use the -all
<tzafrir_laptop> (right now I can live with that, as I build for i386 only)
<tzafrir_laptop> But why do I get that message about module-assistant ?
<CardinalFang> Hi all.  I'm trying to sort out splitting a package.  I have "foo" that I split into "foo" and "foo-bin".  "foo" must depend on "foo-bin", and it shouldn't be possible to install old "foo" and new "foo-bin" at the same time.  How is this done?  I hear "Breaks" isn't supported yet, is it "foo-bin  Conflicts (<< split_version)"?
<CardinalFang> "foo-bin  Conflicts: foo (<< split_version)"?
<sistpoty> persia: mind adding me to ubuntu-universe-sponsors? (finally, I find some time to do sponsoring at least here and then again :))
<tzafrir_laptop> hmmm.. NM.
<ubuntu_giant> Anybody on updating a debian package? http://pastebin.com/d701ad710
<sistpoty> ubuntu_giant: looks like you've got an error in debian/changelog (from a small glimpse only)
 * sistpoty reboots for new kernel
<Laney> haha
<Laney> I get a warning if XS-Python-Version is there
<Laney> change for pyversions, get another warning
 * Laney head in hands
<Laney> jbernard_: I just uploaded u-d-t
<Laney> thanks for your fix
<bdrung> do i need a ffe for theme packages?
<sharms> Laney: Can you look at LP 436082
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 436082 in minicom "Fix FTBFS" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/436082
<Laney> sharms: in a bit
<sharms> thanks
<lamalex> Hey guys, does anyone know about intltool? I'm still struggling with this regexp issue https://bugs.launchpad.net/intltool/+bug/436671
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 436671 in intltool "intltool fails on reportedly bad regexp" [Undecided,New]
<ScottK> Laney: Use XS-Python-Version.  It is at least common between both python-support an python-central.
<Laney> ScottK: Alright I should revert that in u-d-t
<Laney> cdbs shouldn't give that warning
<ScottK> Laney: Not a big deal.  Just put it in bzr for next time.
<Laney> yeah
<ScottK> Laney: Agreed.
<Laney> pushed
<jbernard_> Laney: awesome, no problmem
<Zhenech> hyperair, geany broken with new libvte?
<ScottK> I'm pretty well convinced that the design theory behind the most recent LP release was, "Making useful information harder to find."
<zooko> Any MOTUs who could look at Tahoe-LAFS? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/tahoe-lafs
<hyperair> Zhenech: is it? wfm
<Zhenech> hyperair, on sid it is
<hyperair> hmm is that so
<Zhenech> 0:03 evgeni@atae ~ % geany
<Zhenech> zsh: segmentation fault  geany
<hyperair> ouch
<Zhenech> gdb yells about libvte
<hyperair> hmm
<hyperair> i wonder if recompiling would work..
<Zhenech> I bet
<hyperair> iirc geany uses some dlopen black magic with libvte
<Zhenech> building :)
<Zhenech> this problem exists with gedit too :)
<bobbo> Hello everyone!
<Zhenech> hyperair, nope, rebuild does not help
<hyperair> Zhenech: figures.
<hyperair> Zhenech: file a bug with a gdb trace please
<Zhenech> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=548350
<ubottu> Debian bug 548350 in gnome-terminal "segmentation fault" [Grave,Open]
<hyperair> ah
<Zhenech> there it is
<hyperair> is it in geany?
<Zhenech> nah, libvte9
<Zhenech> geany just using it and crashing
<hyperair> no i meant is the bug set to affect geany?
<hyperair> no wait, libvte is the one that broke eh
<hyperair> not geany?
<hyperair> well then that's fine
<hyperair> wait for it to be fixed =p
<Zhenech> funnily bug speaks about broken xfce-terminal
<Zhenech> but mine still works XD
<Zhenech> memo: dont close it the next couple o daus
#ubuntu-motu 2009-09-26
<sistpoty> hey bddebian: I'll upload an ftbfs fixed version of gmult any minute. Please don't ask, why it does work with my patch, that was an epiphany and I have no real clue about the build system :(
<sistpoty> bddebian: hence I'd very much like to not file a but in unstable about that... but in case it works for you as well... ;)
<LaserJock> sistpoty: what are you doing up so late?
<sistpoty> hey LaserJock
<sistpoty> LaserJock: I'm waiting for my spouse to return home
<LaserJock> sistpoty: what TZ are you in? Seems awfully late/early for Europe
<sistpoty> LaserJock: utc+2 and, yes, it's quite late for me
<LaserJock> I'm tired and I'm -4 :-)
<sistpoty> hehe
<bddebian> Bunch a sissies! :)
<bddebian> sistpoty: Did you already post/upload gmult?
<LaserJock> bddebian: did I hear that you made DD?
<sistpoty> bddebian: uploaded: yes, but it's still in the queue
<bddebian> LaserJock: Yeah, a while ago.  Amazing eh? :)
<LaserJock> I can't believe it
<bddebian> Hey! :'-(
<LaserJock> ;-)
<sistpoty> LaserJock: you missed the bits about ftp-master, I guess
<bddebian> Heh
<bddebian> Well just ftp assistant
<LaserJock> ohhhhh!
<LaserJock> I think I did see that in my mail box
<LaserJock> and to think, we never thought he'd amount to anythin :p
<bddebian> I'm totally absent from Ubuntu these days though
<bddebian> LaserJock: Amen brother! :)
<sistpoty> well, I always new to cheat revu by reviewing only stuff that went through bddebian before :P
<LaserJock> heh
<bddebian> bah
<LaserJock> I'm sadly absent from Ubuntu these days as well
<LaserJock> I can't believe somebody actually gave me a real job
<LaserJock> I was starting to think I was going to  be a grad student forever
<bddebian> heh
<LaserJock> I had been there longer than all of the secretaries
<bddebian> You can have my "real" job! :)
<LaserJock> I'd been through 3 department chairs
<bddebian> dang
<LaserJock> and I'd seen 6 new faculty hired
<LaserJock> 2 of which I was on the hiring committee
<bddebian> sistpoty: Is it a small patch?
<LaserJock> you know you've been there too long when professors you helped hire are getting tenure :-)
<bddebian> hehe
<LaserJock> I like my new job, but I'm not sure about Boston/New England yet
<LaserJock> weather's been nice, but the traffic sucks
<sistpoty> bddebian: yep
<bddebian> Yeah Boston is about the worst traffic I've ever seen and I lived in California for 12 years :)
<sistpoty> bddebian: http://paste.ubuntu.com/278359/
<bddebian> wtf?
 * sistpoty hides under http://launchpadlibrarian.net/31703518/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-amd64.gmult_7.2-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<bddebian> sistpoty: I'm not doubting you, I'm just confused by that one :)
<sistpoty> heh
<sistpoty> well, usually I can tell exactly what went wrong, and I even believe that I'm not too bad with automake... in this case it still escapes me why the patch fixes the problem though
<bddebian> Aye
<sistpoty> ok, spouse just returned home... must leave now... cya
<bddebian> Later man, thanks
<LaserJock> you know
<sistpoty> cya bddebian and LaserJock
<LaserJock> we'd get so much more done on Ubuntu if it wasn't for spouses ;-)
<sistpoty> haha
<bddebian> Heh and jobs
<LaserJock> but don't tell mine I said that :p
<sistpoty> heh
<sistpoty> <- now really leaves, cya
<zooko> Hi folks.  Anybody interested in uploading Tahoe-LAFS to the Karmic Queue?  http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/tahoe-lafs
<ScottK> Note: It's a reupload due to a licensing issue.
<ScottK> So it's OK/desired even though it's late in the cycle.
<jdong> plus, it sounds like a pretty damn cool project :)
<ScottK> zooko:^^^^ There's your victim.
<jdong> ROFL
<jdong> ok let wrap up what I'm doing and take a look :)
<jdong> boy you think after these years I'd learn what speaking up means in IRC ;-)
<zooko> :-)
<ScottK> jdong: I'd do it, but then I couldn't be the archive admin to review it.  Thanks.
<jdong> ok, lemme look :)
<jdong> zooko: sponsored :)
<zooko> jdong: whoo!  :-)
<jdong> I'll keep my fingers crossed for you too ;-)
<zooko> Thank you very much!
<jdong> sure thing, anytime!
 * ScottK digs around.  Finds the remote for jdong's alarm clock and hands it over to zooko to make sure "anytime" is enforcable.
<jdong> well as long as it's not the 150dB one on Digg or my roommate's which is always in some foreign timezone, that's fine :)
<dtchen> git fetch
<dtchen> bah, sorry
<jdong> while you're here... ALSA on my 17" MBP
<jdong> kidding ;-) another time
<dtchen> you know the drill: ubuntu-bug alsa-base
<jdong> it's already got a fairly lengthy LP bug... *finds number*
<jdong> bug 337947?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 337947 in mactel-support "[Jaunty] No sound output by default with MacBook 5.1" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/337947
<jdong> idn what information it needs; with the latest posted patches and/or forcing model=mb5 I've got sound in everything, just no jack sense
<dtchen> jdong: right, that bug is pretty unhelpful for me WRT your specific issue, because i have no way of knowing if your codec matches the reporter's precisely
<jdong> dtchen: *nods* in that case I shall boot that machine up right now :)
<dtchen> jdong: it is more helpful to just post another bug report with that info attached (which ubuntu-bug alsa-base will do)
<jdong> will do, thank you sir
<zooko> Okay folks, I'm definitely about to fall asleep.  As soon as Tahoe-LAFS is apt-gettable I'll post about it on my blog and identi.ca and so on and invite Tahoe-LAFS users to install Karmic and test it out.
<jdong> whoo :)
<jdong> good night, man!
<zooko> Tomorrow I'm taking my children to aikido, then soccer, then having my father over for a visit, so at some point tomorrow night or Sunday I'll probably check for Tahoe-LAFS in Karmic...
 * zooko tries to fall asleep, but is having too much fun listening to http://radio1190.org/1190high.m3u
<jdong> whew, what a packed day
<jdong> kids these days are involved in so many things
<dtchen> headdesk. i hate brown paperbag bugs.
<jdong> dtchen: ok I filed bug 437034 regarding my issue
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 437034 in alsa-driver "Headphone jack sense doesn't work on MBP 17" unibody" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/437034
<jdong> thanks in advance
<dtchen> jdong: thanks
<Amaranth> Oh, should I file a bug for my laptop needing model=mb3?
<wrapster> im a beginner at packaging and wanted to clarify a few things... have a look at this http://pastie.org/631355... (as an eg ) i wanted to know if all the files present in the upstream dir are necessary.. or can we do without some?
<jmarsden> wrapster: You seem to have mixed source files with temp files from the build process in the same directory??  That's horribly confusing.  if you want to repackage flex, apt-get source flex and start from there.
<wrapster> jmarsden: yeah thats where i started from .. i had already built flex but guess i needed to pull the source then ask the question ... :)
<wrapster> sorry about that..
<wrapster> will get back in a while
<jmarsden> wrapster: Oh, then run make clean or make -f debian/rules clean    or both and try again :)
<wrapster> jmarsden: is this better to base my question on? http://pastie.org/631368
<jmarsden> Probably... but now you just have source files, so of course they are all needed... what makes you think otherwise?
<jmarsden> Well, you could consider config.guess and config.sub disposable... but... what are you really trying to do here?
<wrapster> jmarsden: when i looked at ways of packaging...(when my seniors were doing it) i thought i saw them remove files that ended with *.ex so was wondering what they are and why are they being removed.. forgot to ask then.. so troubing you.
<wrapster> how about in the debian dir? apart from control,rules,changelog,copyright are there any other files that are necessary? to build a pkg?
<jmarsden> Inside the debian/ dir if you use dh_make to generate a starting set of debian packaging files you can get that; but here you are starting from an existing package so there should not be any files around which are unnecessary.
<jmarsden> wrapster: To build "a" package, or to build this one in particular?
<wrapster> to build a pkg
<jmarsden> at minimum you should only need those 4.  See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete#Packaging%20from%20Scratch
<jmarsden> That guide also talks about removing the *.ex files, by the way.  Reading the whole guide is *strongly* recommended.
<sistpoty> hi folks
 * ScottK waves to sistpoty.
<sistpoty> hi ScottK
<diwic> hi there
<ScottK> zooko: What are the licensing terms for src/allmydata/util/mathutil.py?
<ScottK> sistpoty: IIRC maven is one of those things where you generally want the crack of the day, so while we'd need someone to shepherd through a set of updates, I'm don't think we need to be really picky about testing.
<sistpoty> ScottK: ok, but I'd at least like to see a rudimentary test though
<ScottK> OK.
<less11> Hi all, I need to know where to ask questions ubuntu boot process (more specifically, initrd related questions)
<ScottK> less11: I think there is an #ubuntu-boot channel.  I know there's a LP team with a mailing list.
<less1> ScottK: thanks.. :-)
<lamalex> Does anyone know about cdbs simple-patchsys?
<lamalex> how do I create a new patch? Do I edit the code then do a diff and revert the code?
<diwic> cdbs-edit-patch
<Darxus> If I created a new package today, which didn't qualify for karmic, what would happen to it?
<lamalex> Darxus: get it into debian and have it sync for lucid
<diwic> lamalex: if you have the choice, switching to quilt is generally recommended
<lamalex> diwic: yeah, but I don't have the authority to do that unfortunately
<pochu> diwic: is it?
<pochu> oh, generally
<diwic> pochu: I believe most people think so (myself included), but I'm not sure if it is an official policy.
<Darxus> Ohh, a name for what comes after kamric :P
<Darxus> Packages can't be added to lucid yet though?
<pochu> no
<Darxus> Heh, wikipedia is already updated.
<Darxus> Which event on the Lucid release schedule markes when new packages can be uploaded?
<Darxus> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidReleaseSchedule
<lamalex> diwic: thanks
<lamalex> Darxus: they can be uploaded at any point before feature freeze
<lamalex> but debian import freeze is where it won't be synced from debian
<lamalex> so I would try and get it uploaded into debian as soon as possible
<Darxus> lamalex: Well, since they can't be uploaded now, that's not true.  When is the soonest they can be uploaded?
<RainCT> (*automatically synced, you can still manually request syncs afterwards)
<lamalex> Darxus: idk, as soon as the repos open I guess
<RainCT> Darxus: as soon as the archive is opened, which is usually a few weeks after the previous release coming out
<lamalex> nov 5 maybe?
<Darxus> RainCT: Thanks.
<Darxus> That should be on the schedule :)
<Darxus> I just contacted the last person to edit the schedule and asked him to add it.
<Darxus> Can you give me an example of a package that only has a couple .h files?
<joaopinto> Darxus, .h are usually contained on -dev packages
<Darxus> joaopinto: I know, I'm looking through them, thanks.
<Darxus> $ for file in `dpkg -l '*dev' | grep ^i | awk '{print $2}'` ; do echo -n  `dpkg -L $file | wc -l` >> headercount.txt ; echo " $file " >> headercount.txt; done
<Darxus> I love linux.
<Darxus> libbz2-dev looks good.
<Darxus> Well, before I start trying to build a new package for the first time I should ask if this makes sense.
<Darxus> Nvidia has made hardware acceleration of video decoding available.
<Darxus> Support is included in the source of the karmic mplayer package, but it's not enabled.
<Darxus> Enabling it requires two .h files from nvidia.
<Darxus> So I should package these two .h files and make that a build-dep of mplayer, right?
<Darxus> (I have it working on my computer.  It's awesome.)
<joaopinto> Darxus, have you checked those .h files copyright ?
<Darxus> joaopinto: Just did.  It's good.
<Darxus> 'Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining a copy of this software and associated documentation files (the "Software"), to deal in the Software without restriction...'
<joaopinto> Darxus, if the copyright is compatible with mplayer, it makes more sense to add those 2 .h as a building patch
<joaopinto> i mean, to mplayer
<Darxus> Does it?  What about other players that might build against it?
<Darxus> Bah, trying to find somebody at nvidia to ask for a version number.
<joaopinto> there are some cases of .h files repeated on several sources, if those 2 .h are part of a library it makes sense to package the entire lib :)
<Darxus> joaopinto: I believe this support only exists as patches nvidia made to mplayer and these two .h files.
<Darxus> So.. should I be making a package of two .h files?
<Darxus> I don't think I got an answer to this before:  Do I need to use my real name when packaging/signing for upload to the archives, if I make it to that point?
<sistpoty> Darxus: it's highly encouraged to use the real name
<sistpoty> Darxus: header files belong to the package with the library that actually has the implementation, a standalone package with only two header files would be a little bit strange
<sistpoty> (i.e. to the -dev package actually, see the library packaging guide for details)
<Darxus> I finally had the sense to google to see what debian is doing with this.  There's an RFP bug:  http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=511555
<ubottu> Debian bug 511555 in ffmpeg "ffmpeg: Please support VDPAU" [Wishlist,Open]
<ScottK> diwic: Very few people are neutral on the subject of quilt.  I think saying it's generally recommended overstates the case.
 * sistpoty shoves more packages into ScottK's queue :)
<ScottK> Excellent
<Darxus> "Headers are alreay included in the nvidia source package"
<Darxus> Looks like those headers are already packaged in nvidia-glx-185-dev in karmic, heh.
<Darxus> Except they're not actually in there :(
<ScottK> kirkland: I'm going over Universe stuff and accepting it.  Your versioning of the sobby upload seems a bit odd to me.  Didn't you want 0.4.5-1ubuntu1?
<sistpoty> meh, no ftbfs bugs in the universe sponsors list... where's my whip? *g*
 * sistpoty is off again, cya
<hyperair> kirkland: i think i might have bugged you about this previously, but checking for $TERM screws up ssh sessions with byobu-launcher grandly.
<hyperair> kirkland: please, just check *anything* except TERM
<hyperair> what's wrong with just checking STY?
<hyperair> in fact, what are the cases where STY goes missing?
 * hyperair reads the bug report.
<hyperair> i take it that it's acceptable to have byobu *not* launch, and instead have "exec byobu-launcher" just exit the shell instead.
<hyperair> great. just great.
<hyperair> $ ssh 192.168.1.3
<hyperair> Connection to 192.168.1.3 closed.
<hyperair> whee. fun.
<hyperair> in the first place, what's wrong with having byobu-inside-byobu when you ssh to another machine that has byobu in it?
<hyperair> hmm byobu is in main. maybe i should have ranted in #ubuntu-devel instead.
<hyperair> oh well, what's done is done.
<ScottK> zooko: Did you see my ping from this morning about licensing?
#ubuntu-motu 2009-09-27
<zooko> ScottK: Hi there, I just checked IRC and saw your messages.  Investigating that file.
<zooko> ScottK: I'm the copyright holder, and the original licence was a simple permissive licence, and I gave allmydata.com full rights to re-license, and they re-licensed it under the Tahoe-LAFS terms (GPL2+|TGPPL1+).
<zooko> ... And I'm not updating the upstream Tahoe-LAFS trunk to reflect this...
<zooko> Oh, wait, it was true of an earlier version of mathutil.py that it was under a simple permissive licence.  A more recent version -- http://allmydata.org/trac/pyutil/browser/pyutil/README.txt -- is under GPL2+|TGPPL1+ .  I don't know which version was copied into Tahoe-LAFS, but I guess it doesn't matter for various reasons. :-)
<zooko> ScottK: s/I'm not updating/I'm now updating/
<zooko> off to sleep..
<sharms> wgrant: When will you run the ftbfs report again?
<wgrant> sharms: The rebuild FTBFS report should be running every two hours.
<sharms> wgrant: if it says superceeded then that means it can be safely ignored?
<wgrant> sharms: Not necessarily. You would have to check if the newer version built properly in the primary archive.
<wgrant> '(superseded)' just means that there is a newer version of the source in the primary archive.
<wgrant> Not necessarily that the new one built OK.
<sharms> thanks
<sharms> that is a rather large list so soon to release
<wgrant> It's not too much worse than normal.
<sharms> I am taking a look at procmail now, and I just got minicom fixed the other day, but I could imagine if those were broken at release the internet would cry
<sharms> this getline transition seems to be biting
<wgrant> Few would notice unless an SRU or security update was required.
<sharms> so we just ship the package as built before the ftbfs?
<wgrant> Yes.
<sharms> any idea how hard it would be to revert ncpfs to pre-jaunty for karmic?
<wgrant> Why?
<sharms> gcc changed its behavior of how it handles the packed attribute, so for all i386 users the only way to use it is to install the pre jaunty package
<sharms> I fixed it for amd64 but I cant figure out how to fix it for i386
<wgrant> Fix the struct definitions.
<wgrant> Upstream has no fix?
<sharms> I dont believe there is an upstream anymore
<sharms> last updates were years ago
<wgrant> Restoring the pre-Jaunty binaries is pretty much impossible. You'd have to rebuild it, in which case the benefit is probably lost.
<sharms> oh well, maybe I will get lucky and figure out the i386 issue
<wgrant> If not, ask around.
<wgrant> Debian hasn't fixed it?
<sharms> I think I am the only person who touched it in the last while
<sharms> the code is a mess
<sharms> I actually forked it and tried to fix all the compiler warnings
<wgrant> Urgh.
<sharms> then removed that fork after it was basically impossible
<sharms> anyway, thanks for all the info, very helpful
<wgrant> np
<wrapster> while trying to build i get an error saying that GNU m4 is missing.. but even after apt-get install m4 i still get the same issue.. i'm getting this issue while building flex?
<wrapster> is there a work around?
<jmarsden> wrapster: What are you doing exactly?  I can do  mkdir -p ~/packages/flex && cd ~/packages/flex && apt-get source flex && sudo apt-get build-dep flex && cd flex-2.5.35 && debuild
<jmarsden> Just works, here.
<wrapster> oh...
<wrapster> i did a apt-satisfydepends
<wrapster> well it says 0 upgraded and 0 installed
<jmarsden> All I know is that entire command set executed and build flex in under two minutes here :)  It "just works"
<wrapster> jmarsden: http://pastie.org/632162
<jmarsden> So, what does dpkg -l m4 |tail -1   output on your system?
<jmarsden> (In other words, what version of m4 do you have installed?)
<wrapster> 1.4.13-3
<wrapster> i opened up the configure file .. and i can see that m4, gm4 and gnum4 are all different
<jmarsden> Are you doing this in Karmic?  I see:
<jmarsden> ii  m4                                         1.4.11-1                                  a macro processing language
<jmarsden> In Ubuntu Jaunty 9.04 amd64.
<lifeless> what does /usr/bin/m4 --version
<lifeless> show
<wrapster> :(
<wrapster> usr/bin/m4 --version --> bad option
<jmarsden> wrapster: How exactly did you install m4 ?  And what version of Ubuntu are you running?
<wrapster> 9.04 and apt-get install m4
<jmarsden> ... does not compute :)  Show me the full line of output from   dpkg -l m4 |tail -1
<wrapster> http://pastie.org/632168
<wrapster> m4 is the only one under dpkg -l |grep m4
<jmarsden> wrapster: The initial r in your line means it is not actually installed...
<wrapster> oh hold on
<wrapster> yeah...
<wrapster> but an apt-get install says its already installed?
<jmarsden> And where on earth did you get 1.4.13-3 from, even Karmic only has 1.4.13-1
<wrapster> hee hee!!
<wrapster> this is a nexenta machine
<jmarsden> Then go ask in a nexenta forum, this is #ubuntu-motu
<wrapster> i know
<wrapster> forget that...
<wrapster> i think i can guess what the issue could be...
<jmarsden> You are just wasting your time and mine asking questions in the wrong place.
<wrapster> ok
<lifeless> wrapster: it looks to me like m4 isn't GNU m4 ;)
<lifeless> wrapster: you should file a bug on nexenta
<wrapster> ok... But thats exactly what my question was...
<wrapster> coz you open up the configure file you will see that there is a for $var in gnum4 m4 gm4
<wrapster> which obviously means it cannot be the same
<lifeless> gnu m4 can be installed under many different names
<lifeless> thats all that code is for
<wrapster> but i can only find m4 at packages.ubuntu.com
<wrapster> so could i just do by creating symlinks to m4 under these names?
<lifeless> wrapster: the nexenta m4 package is broken from the look of it
<lifeless> wrapster: you should get that package fixed.
<wrapster> hmm
<sistpoty> hi folks
<geser> Hi sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi geser
<iulian> Hey sistpoty, geser.
<sistpoty> hi iulian
<geser> Hi iulian
<sebner> huhu iulian sistpoty geser :D
<sistpoty> hi sebner
<geser> Hi sebner
<sebner> Another sunday with not that many people online but us *cough* :)
<sistpoty> hehe
<iulian> Hello sebner.
<wrapster> i was playing around with binutils and changed a few things to create symlinks.. now after dpkg-buildpackage i am able to see the symlink created in the debian/<pkg>/usr/sfw/bin/ but upon installation /usr/sfw/bin does not reflect it?
<wrapster> how is it possible?
<lifeless> check debc
<wrapster> lifeless: ?
<wrapster> ok
<wrapster> one moment
<wrapster> lifeless: what should i be looking for in debc?
<lifeless> your symlinks?
<lifeless> debian/$pkg has very litt;e to do with what will be installed
<wrapster> lifeless: no its not there
<lifeless> then you're not packaing the symlinks
<wrapster> the symlinks are not there
<wrapster> hmm
<lifeless> I thought nexenta was Ubuntu with Solaris kernel ?
<wrapster> yes you are right
<lifeless> so why are you changing the binutils package to install stuff in a nonstandard location?
<wrapster> lifeless: there are a few modules that directly search for executables from these locations(solaris stuff) so instead of changing them it would be advisable to get them into a pkg so that all these essentials can be just an apt-get install away
<lifeless> if you were to fix those modules, they would be more portable ;)
<lifeless> just a thought
<wrapster> i'll give you an eg... gcc actual path is /usr/sfw/bin/gcc(on solaris) but on ubuntu its in /usr/bin right!!!
<lifeless> yes. It should be in /usr/bin
<wrapster> so there are millions of pkg that search for gcc in /usr/sfw/bin/ and will fail how many can  you change?
<wrapster> so instead if you can change the underlying issue..it will always serve the purpose in a better way..
<wrapster> :)
<lifeless> uhm
<lifeless> ubuntu has 20K packages that look in /usr/bin
<wrapster> so be it..
<wrapster> a symlink wont harm either ubuntu or solaris right!!1
<wrapster> :)
<lifeless> if you fork such low level packages, you'll have more pain tracking Ubuntu
<lifeless> and more bug reports.
<wrapster> hmm.. let see when we encounter one.. coz till now there are no reports... no guarantees as yet though ..so hoping it wont turn out the way we dont want it to...
<wrapster> let wait and see before ppl start complaing
<lifeless>  shrug, its your time
<lifeless> I suggest adding a compatibility package though rather than changing toolchain packages thenselves
<sebner> sistpoty: du we have any agenda points regarding a MOTU meeting?
<sistpoty> sebner: not yet, I guess
<sistpoty> sebner: but maybe I'll add some during the week ;)
<sebner> sistpoty: sounds mysterious :D
<sistpoty> heh
<joaopinto> wrapster, waiting for complains about something you know you are doing wrong is a bad pratice
<joaopinto> like lifeless explains it makes much more sense to leave the base packages untouched, and introduce a -compat package as a dependency for the opensolaris specific modules
<wrapster> lifeless: good idea. will look into that as well.
<wrapster> joaopinto: well lets see about that but i liked lifeless's idea
<wrapster> will try talking to my seniors regarding that
<joaopinto> wrapster, also please note that you can use debian/links and just call dh_link on the rules
<wrapster> oh.. i didnt know that..
<wrapster> let me try.
<wrapster> joaopinto: so should i create a separate file called debian/link or how is it?
<wrapster> went through the man but it shows me the usage of the command
<joaopinto> wrapster, you should create a file debian/links
<joaopinto> yup, the manual is not clear about using a file
<wrapster> then specify the links destination and just call dh_link from rulens?
<joaopinto> If i am not mistaken on each line you do:source destination
<wrapster> rules!!
<joaopinto> yes, if is not beeing called already, it is called if you use cdbs
<wrapster> ok will test it out
<wrapster> so its like this... in the debian/links file --> <abs/path/to/source /abs/path/to/dest ;;;;; then in the rules file dh_link thats all
<zooko> Morning, folks! (UTC-6)
<Quintasan> zooko: hiho
<sebner> sistpoty: what do you think about a FFe for xmoto (0.5.1 -> 0.5.2), some small bugfixes, polished graphics, improved camera, new levelpack
<sistpoty> sebner: I'll take a look at it later... just about to leave and go voting ;)
<sistpoty> cya
<c_korn> how can I find out why dh7 decides to run automake ?
<c_korn> the Makefile.in files already exist
<c_korn> http://pastebin.com/d268b462c
<ChogyDan1> I am following this guide: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/PackageUpdate     but instead of downloading new source code, I am editing the source myself.  The problem is, after I do the pbuild, I don't get new .deb files in /result.  Do I have to repack the source code? or do I need to run a different debuild command?
<c_korn> ChogyDan1: what is the output ?
<ChogyDan1> c_korn: here is some of the end of the pbuilder output: http://pastebin.com/d6125746f
<ChogyDan1> I thought maybe the comments about not including source are important
<c_korn> ChogyDan1: no, looks fine
<ChogyDan1> hm, ok.
<c_korn> ChogyDan1: are you sure the deb is not created ?
<c_korn> dh_builddeb only prints a warning but does not fail
<ChogyDan1> c_korn: yeah, no debs are in pbuilder/result, and there isn't any gnome-session.deb s anywhere on my machine
<c_korn> ChogyDan1: you are sure this file does not exist anywhere ? gnome-session_2.26.0svn20090408-0ubuntu3_i386.deb
<c_korn> find / -name gnome-session_2.26.0svn20090408-0ubuntu3_i386.deb
<ChogyDan1> ah! that's it
<ChogyDan1> it's in /var/cache/pbuilder/jaunty-i386/result
<ChogyDan1> thanks!
<sebner> ChogyDan1: sure? run "locate gnome-session_2.26.0svn20090408-0ubuntu3_i386.deb"
<sebner> c_korn: regarding your problem, Have you tried to build the sources the old way (configure and make)? Doesn't it happen there too?
<sebner> damn wifi
<c_korn> sebner: no, I "fixed" the problem by removing the "missing" file and creating an empty one
<sebner> c_korn: bad solution, why not running autoreconf?
<c_korn> sebner: hm, would be better. I will do so and then add a autoreconf.patch to the build system
<c_korn> sebner: thanks
<lamalex> Hey guys. I still can't figure out why intltool is crashing, is there anyone around who can help me out?
<ScottK> zooko: Then document it in debian/copyright.
<zooko> ScottK: okay
<zooko> ScottK: please see the end of this file and tell me if that's all right: http://testgrid.allmydata.org:3567/file/URI%3ACHK%3Agsecbsotjbtzn5uvn6p5de5qeq%3Arg263f6omsfus3pbn6lexes7d6mpcx6nkynzvoalbi6ta7fwloxa%3A3%3A10%3A15318/@@named=/copyright
<ScottK> zooko: That's OK, but I'd add something about "The original author has stated that ..."
<zooko> ScottK: how about this: http://testgrid.allmydata.org:3567/file/URI%3ACHK%3Aj4av74jsuf5jayz6w4ptwxnxxm%3Actcz62gfoia4rt24fdx76st7fhukscuehz7usyopscfe56fdryqa%3A3%3A10%3A15437/@@named=/copyright
<zooko> ScottK: okay I uploaded a package with that addendum to the copyright file: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/tahoe-lafs
<ChogyDan> how do I get my ppa to build a package for more than one release?  ie, it builds for karmic but I would like it to build for jaunty too
<geser> ChogyDan: reupload with a different version targeting the other release (e.g. by appending the release name)
<ChogyDan> geser: ok
<ChogyDan> geser: ok, I don't think I understood that.  I thought maybe by changing the changelog?  but that didn't work.  How do I append the release name?
<ChogyDan> geser: oh!, nvm, I get it
<zooko> jdong: I fixed a licensing omission in Tahoe-LAFS and re-uploaded to REVU.  Could you please re-upload into the Karmic Queue?  http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/tahoe-lafs
<zooko> Hello iulian.  I read the interview with you in Full Circle Magazine.  :-)
<jdong> heh I wonder if it's worth trying to feature-freeze-except the new weechat
<zooko> jdong: did you see my request about Tahoe-LAFS?
<jdong> zooko: just saw it :)
<jdong> zooko: uploaded
<zooko> jdong: great!  Thanks!
<zooko> So what happened to the tahoe-lafs that had been sitting in the Karmic Queue until a minute ago, I wonder...
<jdong> I hope it gets overridden?
<zooko> Me too.  Unfortunately they had the exact same name and version number...
<jdong> well let's see what happens, if it gets rejected then we'll have to poke an archive admin to nuke the existing one
<zooko> Okay, thanks.
<jdong> zooko: got confirmation that it was accepted into the New queue; we should be good
<zooko> jdong: great!  Thanks!
<jdong> sure thing
<dupondje> i386  	5  	 1742 jobs (34 hours)
<dupondje> mmm :P
<ryanakca> Can anybody think of a source package that builds two binary package, one patched and the other unpatched, using CDBS?
<azeem> that's pretty tricky I think
<ryanakca> azeem: *nod*
<geser> I now only of mutt building a patched and a non-patched variant but it doesn't use cdbs, only debhelper
<zooko> ScottK: please reconsider Tahoe-LAFS now.
<andol> No xdialog in Karmic? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xdialog
<andol> (Recieved the question in the Swedish LoCo channel)
<Laney> Deleted in karmic-release (Reason: (From Debian) ROM; old gtk1.2 application; alternative exist)
<zooko> Laney: are you an Archive Admin?  Would you please consider moving Tahoe-LAFS from the Karmic Queue into Karmic?  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+queue
<zooko> Okay, time for me to take my children for a walk/bike-ride/something.
<Laney> I'm not
<Laney> just wait, it will happen
<zooko> Ah.
<zooko> Okay.
<andol> Laney: Thanks. Where would I have been able to find that information myself?
<Laney> andol: yes, it's on launchpad
<Laney> view full changelog on the right
<andol> Laney: Now I see, thanks
#ubuntu-motu 2010-09-27
<micahg> persia: I just discovered there's a bug already for the Java build-dep circle of hades
<micahg> \sh: good morning
<\sh> hey micahg :) Good morning to you too :)
<micahg> \sh: hi, I was wondering if we wanted to backport Doctrine and Dojo to the ZF PPA
<\sh> micahg: go ahead :) when it's needed for ZF why not :)
<micahg> \sh: k, dojo is in the archive, Doctrine will get into Natty on auto-sync and then I'll request and official backport to Lucid and Maverick
<\sh> micahg: sounds good to me :)
<micahg> \sh: k, now I just need to find time to do it :), maybe after Maverick is closed
<micahg> thanks tumbleweed
<tumbleweed> micahg: np
<highvoltage> moo2all
<hrw> hi
<RainCT> Hey didrocks. I see you've already noticed the bug :)
<didrocks> RainCT: sure I see everything :D
<didrocks> (strong laugh)
<didrocks> RainCT: just updating zg btw
<didrocks> RainCT: can't make it easily and reliably restarting in the session nevertheless, will have a look for natty
<hrw> are universe packages also frozen now?
<RainCT> didrocks: Yeah, 0.6 will be able to restart 0.5.2, but not now since the currently installed one doesn't support it. (if that's what you mean)
<didrocks> RainCT: yeah, that's what I meant
<didrocks> RainCT: just uploading now, thanks!
<RainCT> However for gnome-activity-journal it can force a ">= 0.5.2~" Zeitgeist dependency so that it can restart it to get the extension picked up
<RainCT> didrocks: Cool, you rock :)
<didrocks> RainCT: :)
<didrocks> RainCT: thanks for the release!
<tumbleweed> micahg: looks like that gnome-shell SRU still won't build: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/56582520/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-amd64.gnome-shell_2.28.1~git20091125-1ubuntu0.1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<micahg> tumbleweed: :(, I'll have a look later
<AnAnt> Hello, what's wrong with launchpad bug reporting ?!
<AnAnt> I try to report a bug against the kernel using: ubuntu-bug linux
<AnAnt> so after I get asked the apport questions, apport *decides* that my bug has already been reported as bug #<whatever>
<AnAnt> I'm not sure wether it's apport or launchpad that is messing up !
<Pici> Does the bug look like it matches?
<sladen> Use https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+filebug   and then run  apport-collect NNNNNN from the one you just filed
<SpamapS> hrm, not ScottK..
<SpamapS> s/not/no/
<sladen> angelabad: however, the apport rules are manually created to spot cases when an issue has already been reported
<AnAnt> sladen: thanks
<sladen> AnAnt: so in your bug report please mention /why/ you believe that it is not the other bug report
<AnAnt> sladen: so it is apport that decided that this is the same report ?
<sladen> AnAnt: based on the symptons (eg. a stacktrace)
<AnAnt> sladen: done: LP #649213
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 649213 in linux (Ubuntu) "Cannot hibernate since upgrade to Lucid" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/649213
<AnAnt> & thanks
<sladen> AnAnt: please can you explain in that URL why you believe that it is not the originally deteced bug
<AnAnt> sladen: does it need explanation ? I am not reporting kernel oopses
<sladen> AnAnt: what you are seeing "my machine doesn't hibernate" is caused by some low-level bug. "The butterfly in Africa flapping its wings causes a Hurricane in Japan"
<AnAnt> huh ?
 * AnAnt scratches his head
<SpamapS> ScottK: ping.. mtaylor is uploading drizzle to mentors.debian.net and expects relatively quick sponsorship into sid. I've built and tested it on a maverick ec2 node, all is well. Can we get it into maverick today if the sid upload goes well?
<ScottK> SpamapS: Sure, but since it's not on an ISO, the RC freeze stuff doesn't affect things.
<ScottK> There's not a huge rush.
<SpamapS> ScottK: I wasn't sure, so I figured we'd push for today. :)
<ScottK> Sooner is better.
<SpamapS> indeed
<ScottK> Correct is better than sooner for a small definition of sooner.
#ubuntu-motu 2010-09-28
<nhandler> I'm trying to build a source package using 'bzr bd -S --split'. The package use dpkg 3.0 (quilt) and has all of its patches applied (push'ed), but bzr bd always fails saying: Reversed (or previously applied) patch detected!  Skipping patch.
<nhandler> Any ideas on why/how to fix it?
<superm1> didrocks, cool just confirmed that your update work out properly thanks!
<didrocks> superm1: great! it was not as easy as planned :)
<superm1> didrocks, slight recommendation for the future after seeing how it works out - since there is no window manager available while the dialog is running, maybe run the dialog full screen so it doesnt get stuck up in the corner?
<superm1> or set it to always center or similar
<didrocks> superm1: not sure how it can behave on big screen. all others are small normally. centered can make sense but I hadn't the time for a proper look to how to do that without WM
<didrocks> patches welcomes of course :)
<didrocks> welcomed*
<superm1> yeah i'm not sure if that's doable without a WM either, which is why I thought fullscreen might be a better alternative
<superm1> but this is great for maverick, that can be something to sort out during natty
<didrocks> superm1: right
<oojah> Is there a recommended naming for packages of python wrappers of C libraries? I've seen both libfoo-python and python-foo.
<hrw> does it has any sense to request sync of vim (7.3 instead of 7.2) from Debian as "main" is now frozen?
<micahg> stefanlsd: hi, I was wondering what you think of the idea of dropping gears this cycle, Google, doesn't seem to want to update it
<persia> hrw, You'd need to review for new features, and potentially file a Feature Freeze request.  We typically avoid things like that at this point in the cycle unless there's some pressing need (current version fails to work at all, etc.)
<hrw> micahg: wasn't google gears officially eol?
<micahg> hrw: basically
<hrw> persia: will wait for natty with it. I have 7.3 rebuilt locally anyway
<geser> hrw: a rebuild only or a proper merge which you could get sponsored once natty is open for uploads?
<stefanlsd> micahg: yeah. agreed
<stefanlsd> micahg: i did get some interest from a dd, but after i pointed out google is dropping it, i think he abandoned that plan also
<hrw> geser: once natty will be open getting vim 7.3 will be a matter of requesting sync with debian
<geser> hrw: all our changes are merged?
<hrw> geser: did not checked yet
<geser> hrw: it has to be a merge because of dropping vim-lesstif and enabling the python interpreter on the basic builds (didn't check all changes yet)
<hrw> ok
<\sh> fbreader ftbfs fixed
<hrw> http://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu_ftbfs.cgi is up-to-date or more or less outdated?
<tumbleweed> hrw: lucas just posted a day or so ago, saying he'd updated it
<hrw> tumbleweed: ok
<\sh> hrw: it's the latest list of ftbfsing packages...I'm working down the list
<\sh> if someone is an adventurer, please take a look at enna and the new libecore world order
<\sh> it's a mess
<hrw> enna... I prefer to keep out of e17 world
<geser> \sh: as you fixed ecs, would the same fix work for code-saturne? replacing libhd5-serial-dev with the mpi variant?
<\sh> geser: good that you remind me, I wanted to try an rebuild of code-saturne...I think it was ecs which ftbfsed and code-saturne just failed
<geser> \sh: code-saturne has a B-D on -serial-dev
<\sh> geser: but reading the docs, it should work...there are some discussions on the BTS about that
<hrw> hmm.newlib_1.18.0-1ubuntu3_i386 built for me
<geser> and ecs pulls now the -mpi variant
<geser> \sh: I can test-build with -mpi and close bug 647427 if it works
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 647427 in ecs (Ubuntu) "Multiple FTBFS because libhdf5-serial and libhdf5-openmpi are not co-installable" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/647427
<\sh> geser: that would be great :)
<hrw> \sh: seabios bug is known: bug 648895
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 648895 in binutils (Ubuntu) "cannot move location counter backwards (from 0000000000118000 to 0000000000004000)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/648895
<tumbleweed> geser: I think I tried with -mpi and it built, can't remember...
<\sh> hrw: wanna fix? :)
<hrw> \sh: have it on a list but not maverick rather
<hrw> need to backport few my packages from maverick to lucid and hack a way to get it in ppa
<geser> \sh: are you working on the emerald FTBFS on amd64? (probably just a missing #include)
<\sh> didn't I upload emerald yesterday?
<geser> yes
<\sh> geser: the package build without any problems , the problems are in the last lines of the buildlog...I was confused yesterday....
<\sh> Function `gdk_gc_new' implicitly converted to pointer at main.c:3029
<\sh> oh this is ... so evil
<\sh> geser: if you can fix it quickly, go ahead
<hrw> \sh: http://pastebin.com/SYZLdT7S is part of cdebconf-terminal fix
<geser> \sh: it's just a warning in gcc so the buildd checks the log for it on 64bit
<\sh> geser: but it prevents it to be pushed to the archives
<geser> yes
<hrw> \sh: http://pastebin.com/ZeU02EsB is full patch to make cdebconf-terminal built. not tested does it run
<hrw> \sh: code taken from http://code.google.com/p/stjerm-terminal/source/detail?r=284
<\sh> geser: hmm...checking the decor_t struct, and the gc member it should be coorect...gdk_gc_new gives back a GdkGC pointer it seems, could be wrong, not that gtk specialist
<geser> \sh: gdk_gc_new is guarded by #ifndef GDK_DISABLE_DEPRECATED and emerald sets it
<geser> so I try the "usual" fix to not define it
<Laney> emerald still exists?
<geser> at least in our archive
<jpds> Laney: Haha; I asked that same question in -uk about two weeks ago.
<\sh> geser: I wonder if this is a good idea with emerald ;) how many more bugs we will find ;)
<geser> \sh: luckily emerald doesn't use -Werror
<Laney> is it still active upstream?
<Laney> I see there's no package in Debian
<geser> fixing FTBFS: code-saturne: done; emerald: done
<geser> Laney: was emerald ever in Debian?
<Laney> dunno
<\sh> geser: thx
<persia> I think last time we tried to remove emerald we got so many bugs and complaints, we put it back and declared that someone else could make it work.
<persia> Trick is "someone else" keeps changing.
<wgrant> I did remove emerald three years ago.
<wgrant> But it was revived.
<wgrant> It appears to have been updated for about six months after that.
<wgrant> Then nothing.
<geser> Laney: the last emerald release is 0.8.4 from 2009-10-14 (we have 0.7.2 from 2008-03-06)
<Laney> geser: Right, so we at least lack someone taking care of it (or alternatively there was a good reason not to update)
<Laney> There's a high number of bugs too.
<\sh> grmpf.../me needs to kick some devs
<Laney> However it does have quite some installs according to popcon
<geser> does somebody know takes care of compiz currently?
<Laney> #-desktop will
<persia> I think it has a lot of dedicated users, but little upstream development.
<geser> I could only find emerald at http://releases.compiz-fusion.org/ till 0.8.4
 * \sh <- meeting...BBL
<hrw> http://people.canonical.com/~hrw/ftfbs/ - can someone review cdebconf-terminal?
<persia> hrw, Do you have a diff handy?
<persia> hrw, Or are you looking for new-package-review?
<geser> hrw: a core-dev is needed for sponsoring, try #ubuntu-devel
<hrw> persia: this is on a ftfbs list so I just looked at it and got it built
<hrw> persia: http://pastebin.com/ZeU02EsB is full patch (does not include debian/changelog entry)
<persia> hrw, My recommendation would be to file a bug, attach a debdiff to the current version, and subscribe ubuntu-sponsors.
 * persia can't sponsor it anyway
<geser> hrw: does it really need to get linked to all those libraries in $(VTE_LIBS) instead of -lvte?
<hrw> geser: good question. probably not, fix on a way
<Laney> it probably
<Laney> oops
 * Laney has been doing that a lot lately
<persia> most likely :)
<hrw> bug 649810 is ok?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 649810 in cdebconf-terminal (Ubuntu) "fix for FTFBS" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/649810
<geser> Laney: there doesn't seem to currently be any strong reasons to remove emerald now as long as it still works
<Laney> geser: I'm not suggesting any course of action in particular
<Laney> just that someone should care for it
<geser> Laney: I just wanted to inform you of the "result" of my question in #-desktop
<Laney> ok, cheers :)
<persia> hrw, Looks about right to me.  Just waits on a sponsor.
<persia> hrw, You may have wanted to use a patch system, or if you did, you may have wanted to add a DEP-3 header.
<persia> Also, generally we include debian/changelog and debian/control changes in our sponsorship requests.
<hrw> persia: will have to learn more first
<persia> hrw, Do you want help or guidance doing so?
<hrw> persia: after 1.5h from now or tomorrow. conf call time is near
<persia> Just ask here.  I won't be around to help then, but lots of other folks will be.
<hrw> persia: I know ;) thats why I am here
<hrw> persia: by 'to use a patch system' you mean "quilt, stgit, dpatch" like tools - right?
<persia> Right, if one exists in that source package.  It may not.
<hrw> this is native package without patches
<hrw> so I just patched sources directly
<hrw> if it would use dpatch or quilt I would use it too
<persia> That makes sense then :)
<hrw> persia: "generally we include debian/changelog and debian/control changes in our sponsorship requests" - there was no control changes in package and one changelog entry just to bump version
<persia> hrw, Right.  I missed the (small) changelog entry.  If I wrote it, I'd probably add "(LP: #649810)" somewhere so that the LP janitor will close the bug with upload.
<persia> You will want to change the control file for an -Nubuntu1 upload, because you'll want to adjust the maintainer to be "Ubuntu Developers <ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com>" instead of whoever maintains the unpatched version.
<persia> I think the `update-maintainer` script in ubuntu-dev-tools does this.
<hrw> persia: right. bug was after I created source package
<hrw> ok, bb in few
<ari-tczew> hey, I added [natty] to bug topic to target fixing, but pedro_ has removed this one. what is right? bug 339169
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 339169 in Evolution "evolution crashed with SIGSEGV in strtoul() due to NULL flags column in folders.db" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/339169
<ari-tczew> Laney: ^^
<geser> IIRC it's not very liked to include the release names in bug titles
<geser> ari-tczew: have you talked to pedro about it?
<ari-tczew> geser: not yet. it's related to last discussion about reviewing main sponsorship by MOTU.
<ari-tczew> and I want explain there before talk to pedro.
<Laney> ari-tczew: Why don't you explain to him what it was about?
<Laney> ari-tczew: I suggest you try and sound a bit more constructive in your comments too. "This patch is obsolete" is a bit abrupt.
<ari-tczew> Laney: because I would get sure that right is mine. so I pinged you to my question. IIRC you would use [natty] in bug topic.
<Laney> I would thank the submitter for the patch, but sya that it's too late to include for Maverick at this stage, and indicate that I'm adjusting the title so that sponsors know to look in a few weeks.
<Laney> Did you check that the patch doesn't apply any more?
<ari-tczew> Laney: I've been suggested by karmic target in debdiff.
<ari-tczew> btw. pedro on #ubuntu-desktop suggest to use tags instead changing bug topic.
<Laney> It's easier for a sponsor to fix that than to bounce it back to the submitter.
<Laney> round trips are a large cost
<ari-tczew> Laney: well, what's the final of our discussion? tag or bug-title to targeting next release?
<Laney> I don't care about that, as long as people know to look at it
<Laney> and if you can fix the sponsoring overview to know about it
<Laney> I care more about bouncing bugs back to the submitter unnecessarily
<ari-tczew> Laney: now in Feature Freeze I'm testing the patch. if it fixes any bug, I'll update debdiff and give to ubuntu-release for review.
<ari-tczew> above case is strange, because there are not test-case, so I can't reproduce.
<Laney> I would err on the side of assuming correctness until you actually come to upload it
<ari-tczew> but I can agree with you Laney, that saying 'patch is obsolete' is a push work to someone else, which could discourage contributor.
<ari-tczew> in this case, author of patch is a canonical employee, so I think that he won't be discouraged. :P
<Laney> Right. It may be the case that it actually *is* obsolete, but it's still our fault for not reviewing it faster, and you should say what your investigations have revealed
<ari-tczew> Laney: btw. I think that adding a target patch should be a minimum, because searching a bugs with tag 'natty' is easier than looking for bugs with '[natty]' in topic. anyway, we should open a discuss about it via list-mail.
<ari-tczew> bdrung_: did you it? ^^
<Laney> as I said, I don't care, as long as the sponsor overview supports it
<ari-tczew> iulian: around?
<didrocks> no release in bug title
<didrocks> it's breaking thread discussionâ¦
<didrocks> and sorting in bug mail
<didrocks> so please, tag :-)
<micahg> stefanlsd: thanks, I'll file the bug
<ari-tczew> I used natty-sponsor tag.
#ubuntu-motu 2010-09-29
 * highvoltage sees ScottK is in e-mail mode :)
<\sh> moins
<ajmitch> hi \sh
<\sh> hey ajmitch
<micahg> I'm wondering if debian/copyright says the upstream software is under GPL2, do I need to add a GPL 2 header to a shell wrapper I have in the package?>
<RAOF> Is your shell wrapper copyrightable?
<micahg> RAOF: only sets library path and runs exec, idk what is copywritable
<RAOF> I don't think you need to worry; there's no sense in which your shell wrapper is going to be a derived work of the thing it's running.
<micahg> er, copyrightable
<RAOF> A simple rule of thumb: if the GPL header would be ~50% of the size of the file, it's probably not copyrightable :)
<micahg> RAOF: yeah, it's 7 lines including description and spaces
<\sh> a copyright header doesn't have anything to do with the GPL license header
<RAOF> The GPL header is an example of a copyright header.
<\sh> no it's not
<persia> copyright assignment != license arrangements
<RAOF> Yeah, fair enough.
<\sh> it includes a copyright statement, yes, but the majority of the text is a license explanation
<micahg> ok, let's get broader, do I need copyright assignment and or licensing in the shell script?
<persia> micahg, You need copyright if you claim copyright.  You don't if you think it's trivial enough to be part of the greater work.
<\sh> micahg: that depends on you, if you want that or not...copyright I would set (if it's important to you) the license things..I wonder if GPL + Public Domain is compatible
<persia> \sh, They are compatible (result is GPL) anywhere "Public Domain" has meaning.  Lots of jurisdictions don't accept the concept of "Public Domain".
<micahg> Who should it be copyrighted to
<RAOF> You.
<RAOF> Well, you wrote it, you have copyright.  You could assign your copyright to whomever you desire, I guess.
<persia> micahg, I strongly recommend not assigning copyright to a fictional figure.  If you don't choose to hold it yourself, please assign to some corporeal or statutory person.
<micahg> persia: k, well, I guess I could assign to myself, but I don't think I can add it in, since I"m doing a security update for a package and IIRC, it's best to just do the security update w/out any other changes?
<persia> micahg, Unless the security update consists of adding the wrapper... :)
<micahg> persia: actually, it's updating it
<persia> Is it updating it in a way that is sufficiently non-trivial that you want to worry about it?  If so, add the copyright also.  If not, don't.
<micahg> well, it's a simple change...
<persia> Also, copyright only applies to expression, not to the ideas expressed, so by claiming copyright (and licensing), you're only saying under what conditions your code can be copied verbatim: rewrites are always permitted (ignoring software patents as out-of-scope for this discussion)
<micahg> persia: I don't personally care if it's reused, I just don't want people worrying if they can use it as free software
<persia> Would you be willing to assign copyright for the modified code to the current copyright holders?  Are you comfortable with the current licensing?  If the answer to both is "Yes" then don't do anything to add headers.
<micahg> yes, I guess, if upstream felt they wanted to ship it, I'd have no issue
<\sh> persia: right
<persia> Then don't bother worrying about it.  This has a very slight chance of causing confusion in places like "France" where there is the concept of "natural right" limiting copyright assignment in certain ways, but in practice, nobody cares.
<persia> s/"//g
<micahg> persia: k, thanks
<micahg> persia: if I modify someone else's shell wrapper, what do I need to add to it if anything?
<persia> micahg, If you are willing to assign copyright for the modifications to them, and accept their licensing for your work, nothing.
<micahg> persia: k, yep, again, no big deal for me
<persia> If you aren't willing to so assign copyright, you need to list yourself as a copyright holder for the result (likely along with other folk).
<persia> If you aren't willing to distribute under that license, you can change the license, assuming the current license allows this, or not distribute the result.
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> morning dholbach & welcome back
<dholbach> thanks ajmitch
<dholbach> persia, can you readd ubuntu-universe-sponsors to ubuntu-sponsors and remove the expiry?
<persia> My plan is to remove the group entirely tomorrow.  Is there a reason I shouldn't?
<dholbach> persia, can we remove it?
<dholbach> please do if you can :)
<persia> I was just waiting for the end of September.  It doesn't have any members anymore, I think.  And it oughtn't have any bugs (I'll do a final push if I find any before removing the team).
<persia> Welcome back, by the way.  Also, I fell out of -sponsors, and got readded: would you mind making me an admin again?
<dholbach> persia, perfect, thanks
<dholbach> persia, done
<persia> Thanks.
 * RainCT is confused by the security updates info on the wiki
<RainCT> What do I have to do to get a fixed package into -security?
<nigelb> RainCT: I can't find much documentation, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures
<nigelb> Asking in #ubuntu-hardened might be a good idea.
<RainCT> Thanks nigelb
 * RainCT wonders why they make it so complicated. It's tempting to just ignore the problem in Ubuntu.
 * RainCT files a bug with a debdiff, subscribes ubuntu-security-sponsors and waits to see if something happens.   (Sorry for the previous comment btw, that was a too-many-confusing-wiki-pages-frustration :P).
<nigelb> RainCT: that is something that needs fixing then
<nigelb> i.e. the information not being up-to-date
<RainCT> nigelb: Yup. Although it's not about it being up-to-date, it's that as an existing developer I can't find any straightforward information on what to do.
<nigelb> RainCT: I know how that goes.
<ScottK> oojah: Use python-foo where foo is whatever you import in Python (i.e. import foo) for the binary package name.  The source pacakge name can be whatever you think best.
<jdstrand> RainCT, nigelb: we have strived to make the process for submitting security updates as close to regular updates as possible. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures is the proper page, which is linked off of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
<jdstrand> but if there is ever any question, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security (aka #ubuntu-hardened)
<RainCT> jdstrand: Hey :). I've seen that page but it doesn't say anything about how to submit the fix, other than a link to the SponsorshipProcess page which in the first line says it's for "prospective developers".
<jdstrand> RainCT: which page, UpdateProcedures?
<RainCT> jdstrand: SecurityTeam/UpdatePreparation#Submission which is linked to from UpdateProcedures
<jdstrand> hmm, yes I see what you mean
<jdstrand> I think SponsorshipProcess needs to be generalized
<jdstrand> may be we should link directly to SecurityTeam/SponsorsQueue
<jdstrand> s/may be/maybe/
<RainCT> jdstrand: Ah, that page is much better.    /me goes to change the status of the bug he filled to Confirmed
<jdstrand> the intent was to read the first and get to the second
<jdstrand> but I'll just go to the second and recommend reading the first, since that seems to be more straightforward
<jdstrand> RainCT: would you mind reading https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdatePreparation#Submission and letting me know if that should work better?
<persia> jdstrand, Should it recommend writing a Details section anyway, or are UUSNs no longer sent?
<jdstrand> persia: we've sent only 1 or 2 UUSNs. while planned, our tools don't support it yet
<jdstrand> persia: ie, that is still accurate
<persia> Oh.  I thought wgrant fixed that a couple years ago.  My mistake.
<jdstrand> I have a split infinitive
 * jdstrand fixes
<wgrant> I think the only UUSN was for ClamAV.
<ScottK> Yes, and IIRC it hurt to squeeze it out of the current system/tools.
<jdstrand> it did
<jdstrand> in fact, I jacked something up and had to come up with the procedure in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdatePublication#Removing%20a%20Published%20USN to fix stuff :)
<jdstrand> it was exciting for a few minutes though ;)
<persia> stefanlsd, Any nifty cool ideas on how we can have UUSNs?  Any time for it?
<jdstrand> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/security-m-community-usns is the bp
<stefanlsd> persia: jdstrand: heys! my initial feeling is that USN's and UUSN's should work with the same process
<RainCT> jdstrand: Yup, it looks better now. Thanks.
<persia> stefanlsd, That meshes well with my feeling that we shouldn't have a "universe" component :)
<jdstrand> hey stefanlsd! it's been a while :)
<jdstrand> RainCT: thanks
<jdstrand> the main thing is there are issues with usn-tool that need to be addressed
<stefanlsd> jdstrand: yeah. been a terrible cycle (for me anyways)
<jdstrand> that tool is used by landscape (and possibly other) consumers
<jdstrand> stefanlsd: very busy here too
<stefanlsd> jdstrand: is the plan to fix those tools, or do something else with uusn's (new name? uc|usn (community or unseeded?))?  might be nice to auto publish (or go to approve queue) for security bugs with cve's marked fixed released
<stefanlsd> jdstrand: not sure if im wrong, but is generating USN's currently a time consuming process?
<jdstrand> stefanlsd: the only part about generating a USN that is horribly time consuming is drafting the USN text
<ScottK> lfaraone: Would you please look at the sugar* packages on http://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu_ftbfs.cgi and propose update/removal as needed?
<jdstrand> stefanlsd: we figured we could pull that from the changelog for a community usn
<stefanlsd> jdstrand: yeah, was thinking similair (and maybe the CVE report text)
 * jdstrand nods
<jdstrand> it's been deferred to natty for now
<jdstrand> hopefully I'll be able to get to it. it is something we've wanted for a while
<stefanlsd> jdstrand: ok, cool. hopefully i'll be able to help with that
<jdstrand> nice
<persia> stefanlsd, Please avoid "community".  There's plenty of unseeded stuff supported by folks who consider it their job and plenty of seeded stuff supported by folks who don't.
<persia> (and both types of folks are part of our community)
<highvoltage> persia: surely people who are paid to maintain stuff or companies who contribute can be considered part of the ubuntu community?
<highvoltage> persia: I'm not sure I agree with some people who associate community strictly with hippies :)
<stefanlsd> persia: kk. guess people are just going to need education what 'unseeded' is
<ScottK> stefanlsd: The problem is that we are all (paid or not) part of the community.  So community maintained means precisely nothing.
<persia> highvoltage, Neither I, but I also object to anyone who suggests that "unseeded" implies "community" and "seeded" doesn't somehow.
<persia> stefanlsd, "unseeded" merely means not in any seeds.  Has no relation to "main" vs. "universe" or any other dichotomy of which I am aware.
<highvoltage> persia: ah, agreed
<stefanlsd> agreed!
<persia> \o/ consensus!
<ScottK> Would someone please have a look at xvidcap.  It's currently FTBFS and needs a rebuild for NBS.  From looking at debian/changelog, it looks like there is an update on Debian Multimedia that might fix it, so it probably needs a manual merge.  http://www.debian-multimedia.org/pool/main/x/xvidcap/xvidcap_1.1.7-0.5.dsc
<lfaraone> ScottK: will do, it probably just needs some dep fixes.
<ScottK> lfaraone: Thanks.
<ScottK> (note: that was for an earlier request, xvidcap is still up for grabs)
<tumbleweed> I looked at xvidcap it a while back and it wasn't just a trivial merge, enjoy :)
<\sh> ScottK: who will do syncs when we request some?
<ScottK> \sh: Standard archive admin work. We have time for Universe stuff.
<ScottK> YokoZar: Somehow we got two copies of gnome-exe-thumbnailer in queue, so don't be excited when you get a reject.  It's just for the duplicate.
<YokoZar> ScottK: did you also get a lucid-proposed one?
 * ScottK looks
<YokoZar> ScottK: maybe I uploaded the same .changes twice
<ScottK> YokoZar: I don't see one there.
<YokoZar> ok that's what happened then
<oojah> ScottK: Great, thanks.
<ScottK> oojah: You should consult Debian Python policy on this as we follow it.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: do you work on ubuntu-release bugs?
<ScottK> ari-tczew: When I have time and expertise, yes.
<oojah> ScottK: Sure thing.
<SpamapS> micahg: ping.. whats the status of mongodb and bug 557024 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 557024 in mongodb (Ubuntu) "mongo / mongod as packaged can't load libmozjs.so" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/557024
<micahg> SpamapS: is that updated with the changes that resulted in a successful build in your PPA?
<SpamapS> micahg: it should be.. let me verify that
<micahg> SpamapS: can I PM You?
<SpamapS> micahg: please do
<SpamapS> ScottK: I'm not finding a standard procedure to file for package removal. Is it somewhere in the wiki, or more informal?
<ScottK> It's in the wiki somewhere.  It's file a bug asking for source and binary removal (list the binaries), state the package has no rdepends (this needs to be true), get a developer to approve it and then they will subscribe ubuntu-archive.
<SpamapS> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/PackageArchive#Removing Packages
<SpamapS> found it
<ari-tczew> is there any wrong? I have in debian/rules: -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX=$(CURDIR)/debian/clementine/usr \
<persia> ari-tczew, Depending on various other factors, you might have wanted ${CURDIR}/debian/tmp/usr/ or similar.
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: generally you want INSTALL_PREFIX=$(CURDIR)/debian/clementine PREFIX=/usr
<tumbleweed> i.e. you want the program to look for data in /usr/... but you are instalning into a temporary root directory to generate the deb
<persia> CMAKE is odd though
<fabrice_sp> Hi! Are archive admin still processing sync requests for Universe? I have 3 of them waiting, but I was wondering if I shouldn't use the ack-sync script
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: Still being processed.  A bunch were done just yesterday.
<fabrice_sp> ok. good to know. Thanks!
<ScottK> fta: I'm finding that in KDE, setting Chromium to default browser no longer works (With rekonq, firefox, and chromium installed the system things it's firefox).  Do you have any suggestions on how I might troubleshoot this (It's find on Lucid).
<fta> ScottK, which build? maverick or one of the 4 ppas?
<ScottK> fta: Maverick.
<ScottK> It's been problematic on Maverick for some time, I just didn't focus on it before now.
<fta> ScottK, i made 1 change in the last upload last week. the desktop file now has a full path
<ScottK> That wouldn't be it.
<ScottK> It does back further than that and it's still there as of today..
<fta> it was supposed to help with chromium reporting it's not default, but it didn't work
<ScottK> I see.
<fta> in trunk, upstream landed a change for kde.. hold on
<fta> http://crbug.com/18106
<fta> i have that in the daily builds and in the -dev channel
<ScottK> fta: That looks like it.
<ScottK> Odd it works in Lucid then.
<fta> in gnome, none of this ever worked. and i have no clue why
<ScottK> Any chance we could have that in Maverick?
<fta> i have to check if it's just about shipping a fixed xdg-mime or if it involves back porting more patches
<ScottK> Cool.  Thanks.
<tyarusso> Is there a way to see what the delta is (if any) between an Ubuntu package and the Debian one easily?
<tumbleweed> tyarusso: ubuntudiff.debian.net
<ari-tczew> nice page! tumbleweed, is it included on wiki.ubuntu.com any page?
<highvoltage> tumbleweed: cool! is that new?
<ari-tczew> if not, I suggest to include to page about merging
<lfaraone> RAOF: re tmpfs, is there a configuration option to have sbuild use it with aufs?
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: no idea. Hmm, it seems abit broken atm
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew, highvoltage: there's also patches.ubuntu.com of course
<ajmitch> or pull-lp-source, pull-debian-source, debdiff
<ajmitch> or just grab the bzr branches, pray that they're up to date & bzr diff, which I find useful at times :)
<ari-tczew> or grab-udd-merge ?
<ajmitch> do you think we have too many ways to do something? :)
<ari-tczew> ajmitch: I think that merging bzr branches is not sense.
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: yip
<ajmitch> & doesn't grab-udd-merge use those same bzr branches?
<ari-tczew> ajmitch: tumbleweed is a father of grab-udd-merge
<tumbleweed> ajmitch: yes, it's just a wrapper around that (that also generates debdiffs)
<ajmitch> ari-tczew: yes I know
<tumbleweed> tyarusso asked for "easily" but yes, when one is looking at diffs it's usually because you are about to do something so you'll pull both source pkgs / branches and debdiff
<ari-tczew> after merging bzr you need to upload package to revu. it's not sense
<ajmitch> why would you do that?
 * ajmitch doesn't really like using revu for new upstream versions of packages
<ari-tczew> ajmitch: sorry, I mean dput
<ari-tczew> also 4 words phrase
<ajmitch> right, so you don't like the double up of having to push the branch changes & then dput as well?
<ari-tczew> ajmitch: yes. bazaar should build package automatically after push
<ajmitch> that will come in time, but there's a bit of work to get to that point
<ajmitch> since we expect all packages to have a signed .changes file, and the source package would need to be created on the server from the branch
 * ajmitch doesn't know the current status of it, but it's getting there
<tyarusso> tumbleweed: very cool.
<fta> ScottK, did you file a bug for the default browser thingy? (so i can close it in my d/changelog)
<ScottK> fta: I did not.
<ScottK> I kept hoping it would go away on it's own.
<fta> ScottK, ok, backported the patch. it's going 1st to the ucd-stable ppa (same version as maverick). could you please test that one (once it's built) so i can update maverick if it's fine?
<ScottK> fta: I should be able to.  Thanks.
<fta> ScottK, great. (https://edge.launchpad.net/~chromium-daily/+archive/stable) most probably in an hour or two
<micahg> if someone requests an update is it bad form to use requestsync and dupe the original request?
<persia> I usually just edit the bug, so they stay as submitter.
<micahg> persia: k
#ubuntu-motu 2010-09-30
<LaserJock> ok, so does anybody know if it's possible to remove packages (at least binaries) from stable releases?
<jpds> I doubt it personally.
<jpds> wgrant: â
<LaserJock> back in the day it was not possible, but I wondered if in the age of soyuzy scripty goodies it was maybe possible
<jpds> I wouldn't want something that is technically frozen to start changing.
<ScottK> LaserJock: I think the best practice where that's advisable for other than legal reasons is to SRU an empty package.
<LaserJock> ScottK: k, that's what I was thinking, but I thought I'd check
<ajmitch> that should at least effectively get rid of the package on users' systems as long as they have updates enabled (who doesn't?)
<LaserJock> this is my (in)famous Multiverse package, that the company finally wants to get rid of
<ScottK> If they don't, they've earned whatever they get.
<LaserJock> they don't mind an empty package, I just thought it'd be easier if there was a button to push :-)
<persia> That's probably best practice even when it's for legal reasons.
<persia> (although there might be an interim chmod 0 whilst the update is pending)
<LaserJock> wow, must be good time of the night, I got ajmitch, ScottK, and persia
<persia> LaserJock, Issue with button-push is that you break every single Packages file for every single user.  Remember that people never expect to redownload the base set (only -updates, -security, etc.)
<persia> If the user counts expressed are correct, that ends up being something like 40 petabytes of load on the Canonical DC.
<ajmitch> LaserJock: it's because of daylight saving time :)
<persia> (for removal of a universe package: make your own estimates and math for other Packages*)
<LaserJock> ohhh, right, because you'd have to change the main archive packages, good point
<ajmitch> uploading a package that overrides it is the only way I know of to be sure you'll get rid of the package on systems where it's already installed
<persia> That doesn't make sure, for the -security, -updates, etc. users anyway.
<persia> But it does mean most folk won't have it.
<persia> chmod +0 is the other alternative (when there are very strong reasons to stop distribution), which just causes 403 errors.
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> if somebody does an upgrade will they get -updates?
<persia> LaserJock, chmod+0 requires invocation of about 15 people to approve it, and *lots* of paperwork.
<ajmitch> updates has been enabled by default for quite awhile
<LaserJock> k
<persia> Depends on how one upgrades.  upgrade-manager will enable -updates, update everything, and then switch sources.list.  Other ways are more likely to vary based on user behaviour.
<LaserJock> I think the major reason for removal is that the package tends to break upgrades
<LaserJock> so obviously an empty package is only going to help people who upgrade with -updates
 * ScottK just downloaded updated chromium-browser debs of chromium-browser.  It feels almost cannabilistic.
<LaserJock> lol
<ScottK> fta: Works great.  Please upload.
<ajmitch> LaserJock: have you got the package removed from maverick yet?
 * ajmitch can't remember if it was in there or not
<LaserJock> ajmitch: yep, Riddell got rid of it for me
<LaserJock> so that's good
<LaserJock> now I'm trying to advise upstream
<LaserJock> they decided to put an empty .deb up in the bug report this evening
<LaserJock> so I may need to get my hands dirty :/
<ajmitch> heh
<wgrant> LP will refuse to update the release pocket Packages files.
<wgrant> There are about a dozen guards at various levels to stop it from making changes to the Release pocket.
<persia> This is a vastly good thing.
<wgrant> Indeed.
<wgrant> Since bugs have let some publications through a couple of those layers...
<persia> Oh my.  That must have been exciting.
<persia> Would it actually saturate the DC for a week to update the universe Packages file, or would there be a way to restore it if it ever happened?
<wgrant> Backups are good.
<ajmitch> it'd depend on how often people would run apt-get update
<persia> Oh, heh, I meant from LP, but yeah, I suppose that would work (and might get applied quickly)
<persia> ajmitch, By default, every install runs once a week or so.  Given bandwidth rumours that happen around release times, and rumours of user numbers, I'm not sure that even with a perfectly flat distribution there wouldn't be issues.
<wgrant> persia: Once a week? Isn't it daily?
<persia> Mind you, it's just the once that the update would have to be pulled, but...
<wgrant> Non-security updates are only installed once a week.
<wgrant> But indices are updated daily, AIUI.
<ajmitch> persia: & how many use mirrors?
<ajmitch> I'm sure dapper-updates's Packages file is only a fraction of the size, but it'd be interesting to see the bandwidth usage from something like that
<persia> dail;y means nobody would ever finish, even at >85% mirror usage (assuming my wild guesses have any relation to reality)
<ajmitch> as a comparison, hardy-updates'
<ajmitch> hardy-updates's Packazges.gz for main is 625kB
<wgrant> persia: The default is daily.
<persia> ajmitch, maverick/universe is 28MB
<persia> Since my wild guess was 2MB, only one tenth the users need to try to break things, or the DC can have ten times the bandwidth I assumed.
<persia> So, yeah.  Bad.
<ajmitch> persia: that must be uncompressed, I'm looking at the .gz file
<ajmitch> so hardy-updates for main is about 10% of the size of lucid universe's Packages.gz
<wgrant> And what about bz2?
<ajmitch> not much different
<wgrant> :(
<ajmitch> 486k compared to 625k
<wgrant> In my optimised publisher, bzip2 compression takes most of the time.
<ajmitch> enough to matter, but that could still be a fair bit of data being downloaded each day
<persia> Packages.bz2 : 5.5M Packages.gz: 7.1M so I still didn't guess high enough, but at least within the correct order of magnitude.
<persia> (assuming base-10, etc.)
<ajmitch> wgrant: you're saving about 20% with bzip2 by the look of things
<AnAnt> Hello, what is the process to backport a package to Lucid ?
<RAOF> !backports | AnAnt
<ubottu> AnAnt: If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they may go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging
<AnAnt> RAOF: thanks, the package is actually foo2zjs, the maverick package adds support for printers that weren't supported into lucid. So now my question will be: should I try to get that into -updates or -backports ?
<RAOF> If it's possible to get into -updates, that's where it should go.
<RAOF> Whether it's possible to get there depends on how alarming the changes required are.
<AnAnt> it's a new upstream release
<RAOF> For which the answer is *generally* ânoâ, but is not necessarily so.
<persia> AnAnt, If you haven't yet, you might want to coordinate with tkamppeter
<AnAnt> persia: is that a package or a person ?
<nigelb> that's probably a person :)
<persia> AnAnt, person.  Tends to do most of the printer package management.
<AnAnt> ok
<AnAnt> thanks
<AnAnt> persia: btw, still no hope that this OpenJDK sound problem be fixed in maverick ?
<persia> AnAnt, I don't know of anyone working on it.  Do you?
<AnAnt> no
<persia> Well, it's unlikely to get fixed unless someone works on it :)
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> morning dholbach
<AnAnt> dholbach: welcome back
<nigelb> 2
<dholbach> hey ajmitch, hey AnAnt
<ari-tczew> dholbach: ping
<dholbach> ari-tczew, pong
<ari-tczew> dholbach: what do you think about split components on sponsoring overview? bug 629210
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 629210 in ubuntu-sponsoring "Can't identify component from sponsorship page" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/629210
<dholbach> ari-tczew, you can sort by component already
<dholbach> ari-tczew, but I'm not opposed if somebody writes a patch
<dholbach> I'm too busy to do it myself right now
<dholbach> Harvest will make this easier once it's deployed
<ari-tczew> dholbach: how can I sort?
<dholbach> click on the top of the table
<ari-tczew> bdrung_: maybe you can patch it? ^^
<dholbach> ok, I need to go for a bit
<dholbach> bbl
<dholbach> sorry, not component, packageset
<dholbach> in any case bbl
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: do you want a column component?
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: gimme 10 mins ;)
<Laney> what you really want is "stuff I can upload"
<ari-tczew> bdrung_: thanks :)
<bdrung_> Laney: this is not easy to implement with a static page
<Laney> sure
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: changes made. now i have to test if it works.
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: 5 mins to make the change, 10 mins to run the script * number of bugs introduces
<ari-tczew> bdrung_: ok :) awesome
<ari-tczew> bdrung_: what do you think about separate a table: main and second table: universe
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: do we really need that? why not sort the table?
<ari-tczew> bdrung_: for looking better. it's only my suggestion :)
<tumbleweed> random thoughts: we already have a few too many columns. I was thinking having different row background colours or something, but one can't sort on that
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: then I suggest to replace current 'Origin' column with 'Component'
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: that's probably useful to MOTUs but not to Desktop / server / xubuntu etc team members
<ari-tczew> and what about columns 'Status' and 'Importance'? necessary?
<tumbleweed> personally I don't find them that necessary, but I'm sure busy core-devs do (how else do they pick one to sponsor). Lots of columns could be reduced to a single character, though (debbugs style)
<bdrung_> my idea was to split the script into two parts: one to fetch the data (needs ~10 mins) and the second part that generates the web page. the multiple pages: one with all, one for every team, ...
<tumbleweed> bdrung_: works for me :)
<tumbleweed> (I don't know how anyone does any development on that script, given the long runtime and sensitivity to network stability)
<ari-tczew> merge-o-matic needs some love btw :)
<bilalakhtar> Where can I find the M-o-M source?
<paissad_> hi all
<bilalakhtar> ah, got it
<paissad_> which of the chans is for packages developing support ? here or #ubuntu-devel ?
<bilalakhtar> paissad_: both, and #ubuntu-packaging as well
<paissad_> ok thanks
<paissad_> well, i have this warning during packaging --> out-of-date-standards-version 3.8.4 (current is 3.9.1)
<ScottK> paissad_: Don't worry about it.
<paissad_> "apt-cache policy debian-policy" shows me 3.8.4 at most !
<paissad_> ScottK, i prefer avoid warnings as much as i can ^^
<paissad_> we never know
<ScottK> paissad_: Then you could change the standards version in debian/control, but also check debian policy to make sure you make other needed changes to the package.  Generally if a package is also in Debian, we don't change the standards version.
<ScottK> paissad_: 3.9.1 is in Maverick, not Lucid.
<paissad_> oh i see
<paissad_> so i should upgrade to Maverick beta 1st .. but i'm scared
<ScottK> No, you can also read the current debian policy on the debian web site.
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/merge-o-matic/trunk/changes
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: I got it
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: http://people.ubuntu.com/~bdrung/sponsoring/
<ari-tczew> bdrung_: Nothing new here. Go to http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/  instead.
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: refresh the page. i just updated it.
<ari-tczew> bdrung_: nice! thanks. I'm still convinced to remove 'Origin' column.
<Laney> shouldn't the summary be more important (left) than that?
<ari-tczew> Laney: summary?
<Laney> the right most column
<bdrung_> Laney: please suggest an order
<ari-tczew> I'm abstained for this.
<Laney> next to the bug number I guess
<Laney> you could maybe even merge the two
<Laney> summary text (bug number)
<Laney> It's just that on my monitor which has a reasonably low resoltion this column is off the side
<bdrung_> Laney: next to the 'item' column?
<Laney> bdrung_: yes
<ari-tczew> bdrung_: do you have a permissions to uploading m-o-m branch?
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: dunno
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: where is the branch?
<ari-tczew> bdrung_: ubuntu-core-dev
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: then i have
<ari-tczew> bdrung_: are you interested in tweaking m-o-m?
<ari-tczew> there are some patches proposed
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: give me the links, i may look at them (if i find the time for it)
<ari-tczew> bdrung_: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/merge-o-matic/trunk
<ari-tczew> bdrung_: I'm very interested to test RainCT changes. how can I run it using ftp @ people.ubuntu.com like you with sponsoring overview?
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: did you get it working locally?
<bdrung_> Laney: file:///home/skipper/devel/sponsoring/index.html ?
<Laney> bdrung_: ??????
<bdrung_> Laney: wrong link. --> http://people.ubuntu.com/~bdrung/sponsoring/
<Laney> bdrung_: cool, that's better â thanks
<ari-tczew> bdrung_: how can I check it? download branch to public_html ?
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: download the branch and look at the documentation how to use it.
<ari-tczew> bdrung_: could you show me your lintian command which you use for REVU?
<Laney> lintian -iIE --pedantic
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: ^
<bdrung_> ari-tczew: on the changes files from the binary build
<bilalakhtar> bdrung_: BTW, Why do you have a _ at the end of your nick? Why not bdrung?
<bilalakhtar> this is there since you have come back from vacation
<bilalakhtar> oh
<bdrung> bilalakhtar: that's due to reconnects
<bilalakhtar> bdrung: http://blog.expatsinksa.com/?p=43
<bilalakhtar> See this ^^
<bilalakhtar> But works only on Irssi
<bdrung> bilalakhtar: i am using znc + xchat
<bilalakhtar> oh
<bilalakhtar> but this thing works for me
<bilalakhtar> now I don't care about reconnects
<bilalakhtar> its all automated
<bilalakhtar> my nick gets ghosted, and my nick then gets changed back automatically
<kklimonda> does it really matter? bdrung is bdrung even with a bar
<bilalakhtar> kklimonda: I am curious about even the smallest of things
<bdrung> bilalakhtar: my new ISP doesn't have a 24 h reconnect. i don't know how often i will get a new ip.
<ari-tczew> bdrung: we got a problem. from sponsoring overview:  universe git-core ; but git-core is in main
<bdrung> ari-tczew: file a bug. that's probably because git-core isn't in maverick any more.
<geser> git-core the source package got renames to git
<geser> but there is still a git-core binary package (build from git)
<geser> for transition
<ari-tczew> geser: ok, but why universe?
<geser> ari-tczew: without to much digging into the code I assume it's because git-core isn't in maverick anymore and universe is used as default/fallback
<ari-tczew> how can I set my @ubuntu.com alias to use it in evolution when I send a message?
<ari-tczew> bdrung:  I have updated clementine. It's available @REVU for review. :)
<kklimonda> ari-tczew: create a new account and don't set any server for receiving emails.
<bdrung> ari-tczew: that doesn't look good: http://paste.debian.net/92600/
<bdrung> (wrong idention)
<ari-tczew> bdrung: I think that upstream author has added this change due to hosting clementine on google code. I'll talk to him.
<bdrung> ari-tczew: 2.) three spaces as indention for the bullet point in long description?
<bdrung> ari-tczew: what does that have to do with upstream? just change the indention: http://paste.debian.net/92601/
<ari-tczew> bdrung: ah, I thought that this license is not good
<ari-tczew> bdrung: well, how many spaces I need to delete? There are 5
<bdrung> ari-tczew: the license is fine. only ISC is better than BSD.
<bdrung> ari-tczew: four. "<space>*<space>"
<bdrung> ari-tczew: and use three spaces for the indented next line
<ari-tczew> what a odd rules
 * ari-tczew is preparing a fix
<bdrung> ari-tczew: i don't know if that is a rule.
<bdrung> ari-tczew: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s-f-Description
<bdrung> ari-tczew: i have to change my previous comments. always use only one leading space. two or more spaces indicates a verbatim copy, which is not our intention.
<bdrung> http://paste.debian.net/92603/
<ari-tczew> bdrung: now is it okay? https://code.launchpad.net/~ari-tczew/clementine/REVU
<bdrung> ari-tczew: point 1 yes, point 2 (long description) still open
<ari-tczew> btw, what do you think about support bzr for revu?>
<bdrung> ari-tczew: that would be nice
<ari-tczew> wgrant: I guess that you are a master in these cases :D ^^
<ari-tczew> bdrung: ok, there are 3 spaces. how many I have to remove? 2 spaces?
<bdrung> yes
<ari-tczew> bdrung: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ari-tczew/clementine/REVU/revision/17
<kklimonda> which reminds me - tumbleweed: wrt to me using UNRELEASED in debdiff - when you use dch --release or even sponsor-patch it shouldn't really change the maintainer line of changelog so it's not 10 second work for sponsors (yeah, I realize that the comment you made were few days ago but I've just recalled it ;) )
<ari-tczew> kklimonda: I don't understand where are you going to?
<kklimonda> ari-tczew: tumbleweed has commented on one of my bugs saying that changing UNRELEASED to the pocket you are interested in makes a work for sponsors easier - I don't see how when sponsor-patch should take care of changing it for sponsors.
<ck2010> where do I start to become a motu after reading MOTU/GettingStarted?
<ari-tczew> kklimonda: I think that it's not related to sponsor-patch. Changing manually target from UNRELEASED to maverick (example) taking 10 seconds of sponsors life.
<kklimonda> ari-tczew: then don't change it manually, use available tools
<ari-tczew> ck2010: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment
<bdrung> ck2010: to become a MOTU you need to contribute to ubuntu through an sponsor before (point 9)
<kklimonda> ari-tczew: dch --release -m -D lucid-proposed doesn't take additional 10 seconds
<ari-tczew> kklimonda: wait, I'll check it with stoper. :D
<bdrung> kklimonda: if you want that sponsor-patch checks or sets the target, please file a bug report.
<ari-tczew> kklimonda: huh, 7,7 seconds!
<kklimonda> bdrung: I can even prepare a patch ;)
<kklimonda> ari-tczew: and that's without any aliases :)
<bdrung> kklimonda: i'll review it
<kklimonda> k
<bdrung> ari-tczew: remove README.source
<bdrung> ari-tczew: "override_dh_auto_test: ;" should work too (one liner)
<tsmithe> hey; i don't really have enough knowledge of the translation system to understand the origin of this bug - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/musescore/+bug/633501
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 633501 in musescore (Ubuntu) "MuseScore Translation problem on Ubuntu Lucid" [Undecided,New]
<tsmithe> (i posted in -translations, but it's a bit quiet)
<ari-tczew> bdrung: README.source is already removed in REVU, but I didn't remove it @bzr.
 * ari-tczew is merging both sources.
<ari-tczew> bdrung: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ari-tczew/clementine/REVU/revision/18
<ari-tczew> bdrung: any issues yet?
<bdrung> ari-tczew: no. it's fine from the technical point. things needed to be done: license check and install & using test
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: Aiming for natty, I hope
<ari-tczew> bdrung: are you going to do it?
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: I'd get it into maverick...
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: THIS late?
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: I want to give 10.10 users a good music player.
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: Did you get an FFe?
<bilalakhtar> You will break so many freezes!
<kklimonda> it's a ne package, targeted for universe so it's not that bad if he got a FFe
<kklimonda> bilalakhtar: remember that the freezez for unseeded packages aren't that strict as for seeded ones
<bdrung> ari-tczew: do you have a FFe?
<kklimonda> freezes* (is it even a word? ;) )
 * sebner is wondering if we don't have good music players already ;-)
<ari-tczew> bdrung: no, because I'm waiting for REVU ACK.
<kklimonda> sebner: only about around dozen or so ;)
<iulian> sebner: Heh.
<bilalakhtar> kklimonda: That doesn't mean that you go ahead and upload a new upstream version of linux an hour before release
<bdrung> ari-tczew: use xmms2 :P
<sebner> bdrung: audacious ftw! :P
<kklimonda> bilalakhtar: I don't see a problem *if* he gets a FFe for it.
 * iulian goes back in his cave now.
<sebner> iulian: ^
<ari-tczew> bdrung: no ;) I like amarok 1.4, so clementine is a placeholder
<bdrung> sebner: you like audacious? do you volunteer to make audacious the best player?
<bilalakhtar> kklimonda: So getting a person to ACK your FFe is not all, you _NEED_ to be responsible
<sebner> bdrung: nah, the best player (which I use 99% of time) is banshee :P
<kklimonda> bdrung: oh, you are no longer interested in audacious? how's that? I thought you were really close to its upstream developer :)
<bdrung> ari-tczew: upload your latest revision to revu and i will comment it
<ari-tczew> in Poland, we have a phrase: tastes is not discussed
<kklimonda> bilalakhtar: do you suggest that ari-tczew isn't responsible and the package is going to bitrot in archive?
<bilalakhtar> kklimonda: You meant that getting an FFe is all one needs
<bilalakhtar> You are breaking a freeze and you need to be responsible
<bilalakhtar> I know ari-tczew will be responsible, for sure
<bilalakhtar> but your approach is 'Get an FFe and just upload without caring about anything else'
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: it's not a library, so nothing will be broken. :)
<ari-tczew> and I use this package, so I'm sure, that it works fine.
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: hmm, yes
<bilalakhtar> The case with clementine is different, though
<bdrung> kklimonda: i'm in the multimedia team and touch many sound apps (audacity, audacious, xmms2 + ~5 clients). if there is someone else who wants to maintain audacious, i will give it right away.
<bilalakhtar> bdrung: You maintain audacious?
<bdrung> bilalakhtar: yes (for a half year)
<bilalakhtar> bdrung: ah, did I tell you I became MOTU?
<ari-tczew> bdrung: do you will give an ACK?
<bilalakhtar> do you will give ^^ :D
<bilalakhtar> bigon: Stop reconnecting!
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: ?
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: nothing, just a grammatical error
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: btw. turn off showing who log-in or log-out.
<kklimonda> bilalakhtar: my approach is "if you get a FFe you are all set" and that does not include any work you are supposed to do before or after getting FFe - I assume that package that gets a FFe is ready to be uploaded and that person responsible for it is going to be responsible.
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: sorry, I'm not a perfect person, like other.
<ari-tczew> s/like/than
<bilalakhtar> 'kay
<bigon> mmm some trouble with my ipv6 connexion
<bdrung> bilalakhtar: yes. i did read the dmb meeting log. did i welcome you in the team?
<bilalakhtar> I have gone to poland, and I can see that ari-tczew knows much better english that other pols!
<ari-tczew> I remember that bdrung sent congrats to bilalakhtar.
<bilalakhtar> bdrung: no, but you just did
 * bilalakhtar re-checks the log
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: do you planning visit our country?
<bilalakhtar> bdrung: hmm, nope, probably I was away at that time, but thanks a lot anyway
<bdrung> bilalakhtar: ok, then this got lost in the big backlog after my holydays
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: I visited in 2007
<bdrung> bilalakhtar: where do you come from?
<bilalakhtar> bdrung: Indian by origin, living in Saudi Arabia
<bdrung> wow
<bdrung> bilalakhtar: you want to maintain audacious?
<bilalakhtar> bdrung: will answer that tomorrow :) I will definitely
<ajmitch> you're brave
<bilalakhtar> bdrung: haven't looked at the code yet, but I will be happy to
 * ajmitch stabs nz2.a.u.c again
<kklimonda> bdrung: you should tell anyone that they are going to have to work with an.. opinionated upstream developer
<bilalakhtar> bdrung: I have always wanted to maintain packages in Debian, and am currently talking to pkg-grass-devel about transferring 2 packages to me
<bdrung> bilalakhtar: i must warn you. there are upstream guys that violate our CoC in every conversation.
 * bilalakhtar is strict on the CoC
<bilalakhtar> bdrung: really? Well, that shouldn't be a showstopper bug :D
<bdrung> bilalakhtar: you can only "enforce" the CoC in our channels and in Launchpad
<bilalakhtar> bdrung: In know that
<bilalakhtar> *I
<bdrung> bilalakhtar: for example bug #647859 or this commit: http://hg.atheme.org/release/audacious-plugins-2.4.x/release/audacious-plugins-2.4.x/rev/6a8df459ccce
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 647859 in audacious-plugins (Ubuntu) "LOL THE NEW AUDACIOUS PLUGINS PACKAGE IS NO LONGER DFSG COMPLIANT" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/647859
<kklimonda> bilalakhtar: well, if you are being called names for patching software to conform to debian policy it may get a little tedious to work on it
<bilalakhtar> 'I am strict' means I somehow get other guys to follow CoCs. Just ask the people on #omg!ubuntu! how I got a CoC in effect
<ajmitch> kklimonda: like the recent rant about ruby that's come up?
<Nafallo> haha. srsly. LOL in the bug title?
<bilalakhtar> Thi is hell
<bilalakhtar> *this
<kklimonda> ajmitch: heh, or the one about ion3 in debian..
<bilalakhtar> bdrung: Is this the reason why you want to give up? :D
<ajmitch> kklimonda: ah yes, the joerg schilling award for free software :)
<bilalakhtar> bdrung: That commit is so bad!
<bilalakhtar> bdrung: I have to sleep now, will tell tomorrow
<bilalakhtar> bye guys
<bdrung> bilalakhtar: it's sometimes hard to stay calm. one tip: get the patches upstream first and then cherry-pick them from their VCS. then they can't complain about the patches.
<kklimonda> ajmitch: yeah - the award for FLOSS project managment.. ;)
 * ajmitch thinks today is a good day to upload packages to debian
<bdrung> upstream is not the reason for giving the package away. i maintain too many packages and that consumes too much time.
<directhex> could be worse
<directhex> let me find the bug number
<ajmitch> directhex: it could be evil tainted mono stuff?
<kklimonda> :D
<directhex> bug 220907
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 220907 in quodlibet (Ubuntu) "source code heavily insulting" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/220907
<ajmitch> directhex: was that the one where it insulted slomo directly?
<ajmitch> ah yes, it is
<directhex> ajmitch: mais oui!
<kklimonda> directhex: nice one :)
<ari-tczew> bdrung: clementine uploaded. when you will give an ACK, then I'll sign my comment as 2nd ACK. then I'm going to open FFe request.
<ari-tczew> iulian: what do you think about it? ^^
<kklimonda> ari-tczew: can MOTU ack his own uploads? Isn't it the same as confirming own bugs?
<bdrung> kklimonda: for new package this is allowed.
<sebner> ari-tczew: I think the point is that at this time of the cycle people tend to fix stuff instead of introduce new packages, especially since we have tons of good players already but if you are happy with it and it gets accepted .. fine
<ari-tczew> sebner: I am stubborn.
<sebner> heh
<ajmitch> we've noticed that :)
<bdrung> ari-tczew: comment given
 * ajmitch had taken a look at clementine but no indepth review
<ari-tczew> what is hard with approve new package? I'll give buildlog, installog and feedback from using.
<ari-tczew> and it's target to universe.
<kklimonda> we are talking here and I've missed the premiere of Sintel :/
<ajmitch> the tedious parts are usually things like the license check
<bdrung> ari-tczew: find a motu who has the time for a full license check.
<kklimonda> yeah, the life of ftp master is a boring one ;)
<ari-tczew> who is a mastermind in licenses? :)
<ajmitch> you'd also have to hope that there'll be an archive admin with time to process a new package in the next week or so
<bdrung> sintel has a strange resolution (2048 x 872)
<ari-tczew> ajmitch: would you like to check license for clementine? ;)
<ari-tczew> bdrung: (not advocating) :(
<bdrung> ari-tczew: it's just the missing license check. otherwise you have my advocation.
<kklimonda> bdrung: yeah, 720p isn't yet ready
<ajmitch> ari-tczew: at the moment, no, since I'm at work (yay for timezones)
<ari-tczew> ajmitch: later?
<ajmitch> possibly
<ajmitch> I see that debian/copyright looks fairly complicated
<ari-tczew> :(
<ari-tczew> ajmitch: so I'm counting on you. if you will process it, you have beer from me. I'll start FFe tomorrow.
<ajmitch> don't count on me, I had about 4 hours sleep :P
 * ari-tczew is going to prepare a raport about stock management.
<ajmitch> sounds really exciting
<ajmitch> almost as exciting as my evening updating data due to tax changes here
<ari-tczew> heh :P
<ari-tczew> see you later
<kklimonda> bah, way too short :/
<lfaraone> ScottK: can you ACK bug 649994? chrisccoulson from mozillateam okayed as not needing trademark approval, and I'm keen to have this in the release.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 649994 in Ubuntu "FFE: [needs-packaging] sugar-firefox-activity" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/649994
<ScottK> lfaraone: If it's a sync from Debian, I'm ok with it.
<ScottK> (feel free to copy/paste that in the bug)
<lfaraone> ScottK: it's a new package, you can't have packages in Debian with the word 'firefox' in them :)
<lfaraone> ScottK: I'll post a deb in a few minutes, it's soooo trivial anybody should be able to follow the code.
<ScottK> lfaraone: Then alternately find another archive admin who can review it for New as I don't have time to look at it from scratch.
<lfaraone> ScottK: okay, I'll get that. But don't I need a FFe first?
<ScottK> lfaraone: I'll give you the FFe conditional on an archive admin to review it.
<ScottK> (Close enough)
#ubuntu-motu 2010-10-01
<Laney> ScottK: what do you think of he latest revision in http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/g/gnome-do/current/changelog ? Would it need freeze approval?
<Laney> (and consequent removal of the gnome-do-docklets package)
<persia> bdrung, ari-tczew : please don't split sponsoring by component again: we recently spent months *undoing* the split.  If working as a MOTU, one should only be working on "unseeded".  If there is something in that category which cannot be uploaded, please file a bug, as it ought be uploadable (or be seeded).
<persia> Split by packageset is the correct split.
<persia> kklimonda, The two-ACK guideline is to encourage peer review.  It gets confusing because so much of the documentation is now written with the assumption that the person working on stuff is not a member of ~ubuntu-dev.  The entire point of all the "two ACKs" and "don't confirm your own change" rules throughout Ubuntu is to have two qualified sets of eyes on major or significant changes.
<persia> Ideally we'd do that for every change, but it would slow workflow down too much for most uploads.
<achiang> hello, quick question on ubuntu practices... i just filed: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=30527
<ubottu> Freedesktop bug 30527 in Lib/Xlib "XKB keygrabs broken" [Normal,New]
<achiang> should i also open launchpad bugs as well and point that one as upstream?
<achiang> it affects both lucid and maverick
<achiang> i didn't check older releases
<persia> Either way works.
<achiang> persia: erm, sorry? :)
<persia> The goal is to get it fixed upstream, really.  If lots of folks are noticing or reporting, it's useful to have in LP as a reference.  If it's in LP and not upstream, needs go upstream (if it isn't the result of an Ubuntu patch).
<achiang> ah, makes sense. in that case, i won't open an LP then
<persia> If it's in the upstream tracker and not LP, and there isn't a bundle of users complaining about it, it's fine to just leave upstream (although you might want to also have an LP bug if necessary for discussing a potential fix, etc.)
<achiang> I don't think this issue is widespread enough to have lots of folks complaining about it. It's rather esoteric, afaict.
<persia> If there's a fix, and it's sensibly backportable to Lucid or Maverick, and it would qualify for SRU (would need a use case showing how it can cause apps to crash, data loss, etc.), then it's worth opening a bug for the SRU review.
<persia> But, yeah, for the regular run of esoteric upstream bugs, best to just fix them upstream and let distributions (including Ubuntu) inherit the fix when it becomes available.
<achiang> nod, ok. i'll continue to track upstream and see how they respond to see whether it warrants a backport
<achiang> an OEM customer discovered this because their workaround for another bug broke (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/flashplugin-nonfree/+bug/224475)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 224475 in flashplugin-nonfree (Ubuntu) "[MASTER] Volume/brightness/eject key briefly changes window focus (e.g. makes Flash exit full screen)" [Low,Triaged]
<achiang> see comment #32 if you're interested... i haven't checked to see if Flash still suffers from the same papercut
<persia> Ah, yeah, there's another reason to open a bug in LP: if you're doing commercial support of some sort and want somewhere to point your customer :)
<achiang> well, they originally opened a private LP bug, but we decided to close it after they figured out another workaround. so sending this test case upstream is just trying to be a good citizen, because in practice, the customer has a [different] fix
<achiang> anyhow, thank you for the guidance, persia
<ScottK> Laney: Do we have the Dockey package it mentions?  If so, I think it's all clearly bugfix.
<RAOF> We do.
<dholbach> good morning
<bilalakhtar> bdrung: around?
<AnAnt> Hello
<kklimonda> hmm, is it possible to disable network in pbuilder? basically recreate, in a cheap way, a buildd? removing/replacing resolv.conf isn't enough obviously.
<tumbleweed> kklimonda: my hack is: iptables -A OUTPUT \! -o lo -m owner --uid-owner 1234 -j REJECT
<kklimonda> tumbleweed: hmm, interesting
<kklimonda> tumbleweed: have you had any problems with that?
<kklimonda> if not I'll steal that idea :)
<tumbleweed> no, it seems to work pretty well (assuming you have no users with that ID)
<kklimonda> do you use hooks for that or do you have a local mirror?
<tumbleweed> kklimonda: the apt-getting happens as root, not the pbuilder user
<persia> kklimonda, It's a far better thing to patch the code not to try to access the network during build.
<persia> Otherwise it makes it hard for folks who don't have the replicated environment to testbuild, etc.
<kklimonda> persia: yes, I know - but it's a good idea to catch such a code earlier then later
<persia> It's usually obvious from build-logs, but OK :)
<tumbleweed> persia: I do that to help catch such broken builds before they get to buildds
<kklimonda> persia: well, some of django tests require network connection and fail when it's not available.
<persia> kklimonda, Why on earth do they need network connection?
<kklimonda> persia: so you risk uploading a package that builds just fine on your machine but fails in buildd
<kklimonda> persia: for example URLField checks if the url is proper (working and existing domain, an existing file etc.)
<persia> kklimonda, I believe the buildds to have DNS, although I don't know if they have full DNS.
<bilalakhtar> Does anyone over here know how to get pbuilder to log builds? --logfile doesn't seem to work, it doesn't create any file
<persia> Also, the test should be rewritten to create sufficient local environment to verify things.
 * persia bugs sbuild more
<persia> s/bugs/hugs/
<kklimonda> persia: sure, either that or not failing with errors (just warnings)
<kklimonda> persia: and creating a sufficient local environment to test it would be a lot of work.
<tumbleweed> bilalakhtar: my pbuilder logs just fine
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: How do you actually use its --logfile option?
<tumbleweed> bilalakhtar: err I have PKGNAME_LOGFILE=yes
<bilalakhtar> okay
<persia> kklimonda, Not failing, just warnings makes the test useless.
<persia> It's work to get testing right, but it's worth it: users expect that we provide them with reliable code.
<kklimonda> persia: gah, it's ran by developers and maintainers anyway.
<kklimonda> persia: your solution, while obviously superior, is just way too complicated to implement - upstream wouldn't be interested in doing this work and there are so many packages to work on.. :/
<persia> kklimonda, Think broader: consider, for example, a dicoweb installation done by someone completely unfamiliar with python.
<persia> kklimonda, You'd be surprised.  Most upstreams are happy to look at that sort of thing, especially if you can tell them things like "I'll make sure the updated testsuite is run daily against your codetrunk if you do this", which you can do with an LP recipe.
<persia> But, yeah, lots of packages.  If you have only passing interest in this one: leave that discussion for someone else.
<kklimonda> persia: well, it's not that I'm not interested in either package or the discussion per se
<persia> kklimonda, the rationale behind my objections would be satisfied if you disabled the tests and filed a bug on the package about the tests being disabled.  Extra points for filing upstream and explaining why they are disabled.
<kklimonda> persia: but what you are describing is a long-term solution that would involve at least 3 sides - sure, a great project but not something I can do this week. I'll have to think about it and ask django-devs
<persia> Right, which is why I suggest filing a bug about it (for tracking) and disabling the tests :)  If it was something you could do quickly, I'd hope you'd just do it, but if you can't... :)
<kklimonda> persia: the upstream is aware of this problem, so is Debian and so are we - a few of tests have been disabled during django MIR process and now, in 1.2.3 a new one has been added - that one I've missed.
<kklimonda> (I've missed it because it didn't fail in my pbuilder ;) )
<kklimonda> so the whole discussion has been more about finding such problems early in process and not how to disable tests and hide the fact
<kklimonda> persia: you are thinking about a specific "Django tests that require internet connection fail" bug?
<persia> kklimonda, Yes, and that broad: list all the tests you had to disable there.
<kklimonda> (I actually agree that we could probably help Django developers to run those tests on a daily basis - last release has a few failing and I had to backport fixes from the trunk.
<persia> Point being that we know we aren't testing that, and should track the problem: even if we can't fix it right away, it remains a defect in the software we provide.
<kklimonda> persia: makes sense
<persia> Right.  Getting a whole continuous-integration environment up and running, as well as setting up all the tests to do full mocks, is a project larger than between now and maverick release :)
<kklimonda> well, that's for sure
<kklimonda> It would be nice if we at least got a 1.2.3 before release.
<bdrung> bilalakhtar: hi
<bilalakhtar> bdrung: hi
<bilalakhtar> bdrung: What is the main reason why you want to give away audacious?
<bdrung> bilalakhtar: as i wrote yesterday (you went offline too soon): upstream is not the reason for giving the package away. i maintain too many packages and that consumes too much time.
<bilalakhtar> bdrung: Do you maintain it in Debian? ah, you are uploader there
<bilalakhtar> bdrung: okay, I agree
<bdrung> bilalakhtar: yes, it's maintained in debian. our ubuntu version is the same with the version we have in the git experimental branch
<bilalakhtar> ah
<bilalakhtar> so the git experimental branch is hosted on alioth, right?
<bdrung> (only the debian/changelog file differs for obvious reasons)
<bdrung> bilalakhtar: yes
<bdrung> bilalakhtar: http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-audacious/audacious.git;a=summary
<bilalakhtar> ah
<bilalakhtar> bdrung: so what's the process of taking over? Can you upload to this package?
<dholbach> thanks bdrung
<bdrung> dholbach: you're welcome
<bdrung> dholbach: btw, we have a bug in sponsors overview.
<dholbach> bdrung, aha?
<bdrung> bilalakhtar: get upload rights to the alioth git repository. i can't upload the package in debian (only ctaylor can do that).
<bilalakhtar> bdrung: and how to do that?
<bdrung> dholbach: SponsoringItem.get_components -> "self.components.add('universe') # let's assume universe" is wrong in some cases like git-core.
<bdrung> bilalakhtar: get an alioth account.
<bilalakhtar> bdrung: done
<bdrung> bilalakhtar: now request to join the pkg-audacious group.
<bilalakhtar> argh, alioth is so slow
<bdrung> bilalakhtar: only sometimes
<bilalakhtar> angelabad: get your client to wait a bit before joining channels
<bilalakhtar> bdrung: requested
<bilalakhtar> Why does alioth add -guest at the end of my name?
<bdrung> bilalakhtar: because every DD gets an alioth account and the names shouldn't clash
<bilalakhtar> bdrung: ah
<bilalakhtar> bdrung: It would have definitely been better if such a thing existed in LP. I need the LP account name ~bilal but someone has taken it, and now I have the long ~bilalakhtar which creates a long e-mail alias bilalakhtar@ubuntu.com
<bdrung> bilalakhtar: now write a mail to ctaylor (CCing me) that you want to co-maintain the package
<bdrung> bilalakhtar: alioth is only for debian, but launchpad is not only for ubuntu
<kklimonda> bilalakhtar: it's a different thing - alioth is mostly (if not only) a debian service and LP hosts hundreds of projects
<bdrung> kklimonda: :)
<bilalakhtar> lol
<bilalakhtar> and ~bilal has 0 karma
<bilalakhtar> mailing
<bilalakhtar> s/mailing/mailing ctaylor/
<bdrung> bilalakhtar: you could ask if you can get the launchpad name
<bilalakhtar> bdrung: unresponsive
<bdrung> bilalakhtar: the LP admins :)
<bilalakhtar> bdrung: that would be rude :)
<kklimonda> I'm not sure it's worth an effort at this point
<kklimonda> bilalakhtar has PPAs on his account, it's linked to various projects, he's using his alias already. It may not be that easy to migrate all that to another account
<bilalakhtar> kklimonda: I migrated from a longer one to this just before becoming UM
<kklimonda> bilalakhtar: it's woth asking LP admins if its possible then. I'm not sure if they can keep your current @u.c alias though.
<bilalakhtar> kklimonda: forget it, I have too many sites that have this address
<bilalakhtar> bdrung: sent
<bdrung> bilalakhtar: do you want to know what's on the todo list?
<bilalakhtar> bdrung: yes, please, what is there?
<bilalakhtar> bdrung: too many bugs in maverick?
<bdrung> bilalakhtar: 1) get these extension work with 2.4.0: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS/libmowgli1
<bilalakhtar> hell!
<bdrung> bilalakhtar: 2) debian/copyright needs an update (in squeeze 2.3-2 and maverick). a complete license check is required. one big question: are the files licensed under GPL2 only (GPL2 and GPL3 are incompatible)?
<bdrung> bilalakhtar: debian bug #594519
<ubottu> Debian bug 594519 in audacious-plugins "multiple copyright problems make software non-redistributable as currently packaged" [Serious,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/594519
<bilalakhtar> oh
<bdrung> after these things sorted out, you can start working on getting bug fixed. ;)
<bdrung> bilalakhtar: if you find licence problems, check if upstream trunk branch is affected, too
<bilalakhtar> right now, I am working on an empathy bug, will see today evening
<ScottK> ScottL: There is s new musescore in the queue: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/56895273/musescore_0.9.6.2%2Bdfsg-1ubuntu1_0.9.6.3%2Bdfsg-0ubuntu1.diff.gz - Do you all want it in (It's in the Studio package set)?
<ScottL> LP: #652276
<ScottL> but 652276
<Rhonda> bug #652276
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 652276 in musescore (Ubuntu) "Freeze exception and upload of new bug-fix release" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/652276
 * Rhonda helps ScottL :)
<ScottL> too early in the morning ;)
<ScottL> ScottK, this has a lot of bug fixes so it certainly is desirable but i would like to test it first
<ScottL> ScottK, i should be able to test it within the next 8 hours, is that an acceptable time frame in which to have an answer?
<ScottK> ScottL: That should be fine.  Thanks for looking into it.
<ScottL> ScottK, my pleasure, thank you
<ari-tczew> where can I find a source code of qa.ubuntuwire.org ?
<ScottK> ari-tczew: You can join #ubuntuwire and ask wgrant or geser.  They would both know.
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: Do you want to be a reviewer on REVU?
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: huh, today I've looked on some packages. why you aks?
<ari-tczew> ask *
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: I mean, REVU doesn't recognize a person as ubuntu-dev until an admin marks it
<ari-tczew> then I have to be marked
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: who is an admin?
<RainCT> ari-tczew: Done.
<RainCT> (patches welcome, btw.)
<ari-tczew> RainCT: thanks.
<ari-tczew> RainCT: patches to revu?
<RainCT> ari-tczew: Yup, for example to automatically set people as reviewer
<ari-tczew> RainCT: I think that wgrant, tumbleweed or bdrung could help.
<RainCT> ari-tczew: Yeah, there's enough people capable of writing this (me included). I'm just mentioning it in case someone is bored enough and wants to do it ;).
<ari-tczew> ScottK: could you look at this one? bug 636277
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 636277 in cdbs (Ubuntu) "cannot quickly package if spaces in parent folder name" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/636277
<ScottK> ari-tczew: We aren't changing cdbs this late in the cycle.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: oh, I missed bug number. bug 470550
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 470550 in coreutils (Ubuntu) "uname -p and uname -i reporting `unknown'" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/470550
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Too late for that one too.
<bdrung> ari-tczew: it's too late and i don't think that this patch should be applied.
<ari-tczew> bdrung: why?
<bdrung> if(!strncmp(cinfo, "vendor_id", 9))
<bdrung> if(strstr(cinfo, "AuthenticAMD"))
<bdrung> it's not universal enough
<bdrung> and instead of applying the patch, it should be accepted by upstream first.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: so I think that I'm wasting a time if I want a prepare FFe for new package to universe?
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Yes.  You are.
<bdrung> ari-tczew: try to get it into debian
<bilalakhtar> RainCT: I can contribute patch to make it set reviewers automatically
<ari-tczew> bdrung: patch or new package?
<bdrung> ari-tczew: the new package.
<bdrung> ari-tczew: and for the uname patch: get it accepted by upstream before adding to the ubuntu package
 * ari-tczew is driving crazy due to tons of procedures.
<bilalakhtar> BTW, does ari-tczew need advocation to upload a new package? He is MOTU, right?
<bdrung> ari-tczew: general rule: we don't have enough man power to maintain a bunch of patches. so try to get the patches accepted by upstream or debian.
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: 2 ACK are needed for approve new package. As MOTU, 1st ACK is mine. Then I need 2nd ACK, which is granted by bdrung.
<tumbleweed> and: new packages need approval from archive-admins, and post-freeze from release team too.
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: That is of course needed
<bilalakhtar> and a new package a week before the release is too late
<bilalakhtar> there was a discussion on this yesterday
<tumbleweed> way too late
<ari-tczew> the one possibly way is backport from natty
<bdrung> tumbleweed: the approval from archive-admins is after the upload (so it doesn't count as procedure burden)
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: one cannot backport new packages
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: or give ARB a spin
<tumbleweed> bdrung: yeah, but you don't do an upload that won't get approval
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: ARB?
<bdrung> tumbleweed: Chicken or egg dilemma
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: application review board (see the recent flamefests on ubuntu-devel and the planet)
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: which way do you preffer? backport or this ARB?
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: as an Ubuntu developer, you probably prefer backports
<ScottK> bilalakhtar: Why do you spread misinformation.  You can backport new packages.
<bilalakhtar> ScottK: really? I never playes with -backports, so sorry
<bilalakhtar> *played
<ScottK> bilalakhtar: Then don't make statements about things you don't know about.
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: ARB is outside the normal development process (and also requires different package layouts)
<bilalakhtar> ScottK: If this was the case, then why was I barred a few months ago to get my new package backported to Lucid?
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: I think that I'm too lazy to get knowledge about ARB.
<bilalakhtar> Others said 'too late'
<ScottK> bilalakhtar: What bug?
<bilalakhtar> ScottK: just a discussion here, no bug
<ScottK> bilalakhtar: You weren't barred from getting anything backported.  Please don't make stuff up.
<bilalakhtar> ScottK: I am not
<ScottK> bilalakhtar: OK.  Who told you you can't backport a new package?
<bilalakhtar> ScottK: Probably why it wasn't backported was because of its name, since the package has a misleading name, which was a major problem in getting the package in as well
<ScottK> bilalakhtar: I ask again: Who said you couldn't backport it?
<bilalakhtar> I guess it was someone whose nick started with s, don't remember, it was 5 months back
<ScottK> bilalakhtar: OK.  Claiming something can't be done because someone you don't know who it was said you couldn't half a year ago and you never even made a proper request is not much of a basis for anything.
<bilalakhtar> ScottK: okay, sorry then
<tumbleweed> bilalakhtar: when you are unsure about something like that, it's best to find the policy and read it for yourself
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: Things that happen once with a person are like engraved stones inside him/her. I try to avoid backports, and since that was the only case in which I thought of it, I thought that might be the case, which isn't, so I apologise .
<tumbleweed> bilalakhtar: no worries (ScottK was being quite hard on you :) )
<bilalakhtar> No, ScottK wasn't hard, he just thought I might be making up. OTherwise, he said fine
<ScottK> bilalakhtar: It's fine.  Now you know and we'll move on from here.
<bilalakhtar> hmm
<bilalakhtar> yes
<ari-tczew> heh, very culturally discussion, instead "if you don't know, STFU" ;)
<bilalakhtar> !language | ari-tczew
<ubottu> ari-tczew: Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family friendly.
<ari-tczew> omg...
<ScottK> ari-tczew: In a global project that involves people from many cultures, you have to bend over backwards not to offend or the project just doesn't work.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: sure, I understand. I said what I've noticed. but bilalakhtar took it too seriously.
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: I am serious when it comes to offensive words. Just ask Rhonda about it!
<tumbleweed> can we just call it a day and end this conversation? it isn't going anywhere useful
<ari-tczew> +1 ^^
<blueyed> If a package depends on libboost-filesystem1.34.1 can I make it work with libboost-filesystem1.42.0 ? I am about to edit the binary deb, but I would have to change the package name rather than some version only.
<blueyed> It's about amazonmp3.
<Bachstelze> blueyed: try to build it against 1.42 and see if it works
<blueyed> Bachstelze: it's a binary deb from amazon.. :P
<Bachstelze> well, same idea, try with 1.42 and see if it works
<blueyed> I have changed DEBIAN/control in the binary package (accroding to http://daniel.hahler.de/binaeres-debian-paket-manipulieren)
<Bachstelze> hard to tell beforehand
<blueyed> It will work prolly.
<blueyed> But I wonder why boost has the version in the package name?!
<Bachstelze> so that different versions can be installed at the same time
<Bachstelze> if a program requires a specific version
<Bachstelze> all libraries have the API number if the package name
<blueyed> well, but that makes a package depending on 1 fail if only 2 is available.. amazon.de provided amazonmp3 for 8.10, I have 10.10 - not working!!
<blueyed> And I cannot rebuild.
<blueyed> Obviously, changing only deps for the binary package will fail.
<blueyed> Great. downloaded digital music, but cannot install.
<Bachstelze> you can try to extrac the deb to e.g. /opt (sudo dpkg -x foo.deb /opt) and run the binary from there
<Bachstelze> extract*
<blueyed> % amazonmp3
<blueyed> amazonmp3: error while loading shared libraries: libboost_filesystem-gcc42-1_34_1.so.1.34.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
<Bachstelze> ouch
<blueyed> so how do I get 1_34 now ?!
<Bachstelze> you can install it from the Hardy repos
<blueyed> oh well.. might be worth a try, but I need a break now.
<blueyed> Bachstelze: are you sure it's hardy? at least the download was not for hardy (8.04), but intrepid (8.10).
<Bachstelze> IIRC Hardy has 1.34 too
<Bachstelze> and Intrepid is not supported anymore
<blueyed> Yes, I've added the hardy repos and could install the the deb for 8.10.
<blueyed> They must have a very high failure ratio on amazon though: nobody is using intrepid or hardy currently on a desktop anymore.
<blueyed> Thanks, Bachstelze! - it worked.. currently downloading the album.. but nevertheless; the Amazon MP3 download process could get improved..
<c_korn> is there some template which can be pasted into debian/rules to make it use multiple cpu cores automatically? like passing the correct -j value to make?
* You're now known as ubuntulog
<tumbleweed> c_korn: if you are using dh, pass --parallel, then it will build with the parallelism specified in DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS
<c_korn> tumbleweed: ah, so I have to define the DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS first ?
<tumbleweed> c_korn: no, the person building specifies that, see http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-source.html
<c_korn> ok, thanks
<Rhonda> I don't get what bilalakhtar is refering to when he hilighted me, but then I guess I shouldn't care too much. :)
<devildante> hello everybody :)
<devildante> I want to apply for universe-contributors, but I never did any syncs and I'm not experienced with them. Is it still okay? :)
<Rhonda> What does the wiki say about the role? I guess you did read it, didn't you?
<iulian> devildante: Take a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers and scroll down to Ubuntu Contributing Developers.
 * Rhonda . o O ( Actually, this question means that I haven't read it, or rather not know it by heart  ;) )
<devildante> "merge new versions from Debian"
<devildante> I'm doomed then :p
<Rhonda> As job or as requirement?
 * Rhonda goes and scans herself :)
<devildante> as job
<devildante> at least, it's not in requirements :p
<iulian> OK, I'm definitely confused now.  What job and what requirement, Rhonda?
<Rhonda> Right. Usually the roles as I understand it are meant top-down. So if you are familiar with the Prospective Developers role and how it works, and started to read the documentation for the Contributing Developer's things, that should be fine as prequesite.
<devildante> Rhonda: great, thanks :)
<Rhonda> iulian: job as in what people in that position usually do
<iulian> Ah-ha.  That makes sense now.
<ScottK> UCD just means "made enough of a contribution to become an Ubuntu member via packaging/development work".
<devildante> ScottK: I think you'll have to determine that via my application
<devildante> :)
<ScottK> Yep.
<ScottK> The requirements are broadly defined, but since I'm not on the DMB, it's not me who has to determine it (fortunately)
<kklimonda> yeah, we would have a shortage of developers at our disposal with ScottK in the DMB ;)
<ScottK> kklimonda: I doubt it would be much worse.
 * iulian nods.
 * devildante looks at the word "worse"...
<devildante> it's already bad then :p
<ari-tczew> ajmitch: around?
<ScottK> devildante: Certainly.  We could definitely use more qualified developers.
<kklimonda> ScottK: would -backports be a good way to prepare new upstream releases for all supported ubuntu versions once it can be set to install packages from it only on request?
<ScottK> kklimonda: Defiintely.
<ScottK> I think it's already a good way to do it, but it'd be better then.
<ScottK> You can ~ do that now with pinning. It's only a problem when you need to pull an updated depends via backports.
<kklimonda> ScottK: hmm.. so as long as we consider the leaf packages there is nothing preventing as from using -backports right now? As -backports aren't pinned right now by defualt would enabling them update all packages?
<kklimonda> preventing us from*
<ScottK> It would, but you can set the pinning locally too.
<kklimonda> damn, where are my glasses :)
<ScottK> I don't think we want it not automatic by default until the apt resolver can deal with this situation, but for individuals, pinning is already a good solution.
<kklimonda> right
<kklimonda> it's just harder for new users to set up pinning (even by copy-pasting) then to enable ppa at the moment.
<ScottK> Yes.  That's where Canonical has chosed to invest it's engineering resources.
<kklimonda> ScottK: btw, I was under the impression that -bacports are completely understaffed and that it's the main reason for not backporting all the stuff but from a brief look at the ML there aren't that many requests.
<ScottK> kklimonda: We are looking for more volunteers.
<kklimonda> ScottK: well, sure (and I'm going to help you once I have rights as I find -backports really important) - but it looks like whole idea isn't that well known to the community.
 * kklimonda finds the current state when new version of software has to be pulled from completely untrusted sources.. wrong
<ari-tczew> bdrung: ping
<ScottK> kklimonda: Backports has atrophied a bit.  It used to be more used.  I'd like to get help reinvigorating it.
<paissad_> is there a way to build a package for i386 from an amd64 arch ?
<kklimonda> paissad_: using chroot
#ubuntu-motu 2010-10-02
<bdrung> ari-tczew: pong
<ari-tczew> bdrung: does ack-sync/syncpackage support noticing fakesync?
<bdrung> ari-tczew: syncpackage detects and creates fakesyncs and therefore ack-sync does it too?
<bdrung> ari-tczew: otherwise it's a bug
<ari-tczew> bdrung: I'm only asking. I'll try ack-sync/syncpackage in natty.
<Laney> ScottK: I'll talk to you about that at UDS since we have failed to have a voip chat about it ;)
<ScottL> ScottK, sorry, i've been a bit delayed working on musescore, having back problems and doctor prescribed muscle relaxers today, we should get it built and test by tomorrow morning
<sladen> by heck, they're breeding
<highvoltage> /nick ScottJ
 * highvoltage is bored and archive is frozen
<ScottL> lol highvoltage and sladen  :)
<ScottL> ScottJ was FTBFS
<ScottK> ScottL: That should be fine.
<superm1> ScottK, i want to say i saw a bug from you at some point that server is getting extra.ubuntu.com without the keyring package
<superm1> what is the current plan to resolve that?  I noticed the same behavior in the mythbuntu RC just now
<superm1> i'm expecting it's probably happening with xubuntu too
<sladen> superm1: -> Launchpad -> File Bug -> High/Critical
<superm1> sladen, he had an existing bug, i was hoping to piggy back off that but having trouble finding it
<superm1> actually if i just look at recently filed bugs, here it is.  bug 653200
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 653200 in apt-setup (Ubuntu Maverick) "extras.ubuntu.com added to server installs" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/653200
<nigelb> bug 653200 or
<nigelb> superm1: ah, beat me to it by a sec :)
<nigelb> there is also bug 650525
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 650525 in livecd-rootfs (Ubuntu Maverick) "Failed to fetch http://extras.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/maverick/Release ; missing key" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/650525
<superm1> i think the first one is more appropriate for this particular problem
<nigelb> :)
<ScottK> superm1: You need to decide if you want Mythbuntu to support extras.ubuntu.com or not.  ScottL probably needs to do similar.  Then either seed the keyring if you do or coordinate (via that bug probably) with mvo and cjwatson to make sure it does/doesn't get added to your sources.list.
<ScottK> mr_pouit probably needs to consider it for Xubuntu, although for that one I think it's more likely the keyring should just be seeded (if it's not, I didn't check).
<ScottL> ScottK, can you tell me more about extras.ubuntu.com and why we might want it included in our sources.list
<ScottL> ScottK, btw, i'm building musescore in pbuilder upstairs right now
<ScottK> ScottL: It's the repository for packages approved through the new Application Review Board.
<ScottK> Since you're providing what is essentially a desktop system, I think you probably want it.
<ScottK> (If you depend on ubuntu-desktop (I didn't check), then you already have the keyring)
<ari-tczew> what are the ways to apply changed to Debian through DD?
<ari-tczew> 1. NMU with ACK from maintainer ?
<ari-tczew> 2. if it's QA, DD can do upload alone?
<coolbhavi> ari-tczew, both are also right but if you want to fix a RC bug for example you do a NMU with permission from debian maintainer
<ari-tczew> coolbhavi: so, I'm thinking about create a list Merge-o-Matic based on QA packages
<ari-tczew> then DD who contributes to Ubuntu can see what it's possible to apply
<coolbhavi> ari-tczew, hmm
<ari-tczew> coolbhavi: this way we can create a tool, which will help to reduce a delta
<mr_pouit> ScottK: bwarf, thanks, I'll seed it. Was the package name announced somewhere (e.g. on ubuntu-devel?), or was I supposed to guess that or grep through maverick-changes and all lp bugs?
<coolbhavi> ari-tczew, a small doubt though, are you referring to a DD getting to know about patches present/applied in ubuntu?
<ari-tczew> coolbhavi: yes.
<mr_pouit> it exists already
<coolbhavi> ari-tczew, then its already present in DDPO I think
<coolbhavi> mr_pouit, exactly
<ari-tczew> coolbhavi: what is DDPO?
<coolbhavi> ari-tczew, Debian developer packages org I think
<coolbhavi> ari-tczew, I suggest you look at ubuntu column in pts of a debian package
<ari-tczew> coolbhavi: cold you give me a link? I'm a lazy  a bit :P
<coolbhavi> ari-tczew, sure just a second
<coolbhavi> http://packages.qa.debian.org/m/mobile-broadband-provider-info.html ari-tczew look at right hand bottom corner in ubuntu column
<quidnunc> Is there a way to get changelog entries from installed packages?
<coolbhavi> quidnunc, a simple way via synaptic is here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SynapticHowto#View the Changelog of a Package
<quidnunc> coolbhavi: I meant from the cli
<iulian> aptitude changelog <pkg>?
<mr_pouit>  /usr/share/doc/<package name>/changelog.Debian.gz
<coolbhavi> quidnunc, apt-listchanges maybe?
<coolbhavi> quidnunc, http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/hardy/man1/apt-listchanges.1.html
<quidnunc> mr_pouit: Thanks
<quidnunc> coolbhavi: Thanks, that's useful though not exactly what I wanted right now since it requires the deb
<coolbhavi> quidnunc, hmm okay
<ScottK> mr_pouit: It may be in desktop-common already.  Not sure.
<ScottK> mr_pouit: I just accepted xubuntu-meta, so your updates are in.
<ScottK> If someone wanted to fix http://launchpadlibrarian.net/56434966/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-powerpc.quik_2.1-9.1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz the solution is to add -fno-stack-protector to CFLAGS for powerpc.
<ScottK> I just didn't have a chance to do it.
<ScottL> ScottK, musescore-0.9.3 tested and if we still have time it would be nice to include it in maverick
<ScottK> ScottL: OK.  Will do.
<ScottK> ScottL: Accepted.
<ScottL> thank you ScottK
<ScottK> ScottL: You're welcome.  Thanks for testing.
<ScottL> ScottK, you're welcome as well :)
<ricotz> ScottK, hi, could you have a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/docky/+bug/653662
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 653662 in docky (Ubuntu) "Sync docky 2.0.7-1 (universe) from Debian experimental (main)" [Undecided,New]
<ScottK> I was just reading it in my inbox.
<ricotz> ok ;)
<ScottK> Laney: ^^^ What do you think?
<ScottK> (He's the last one to touch it and familiar with the package)
<hyperair> afaik ricotz was the one who made this release of docky in debian though.
<ScottK> Yes, which is good, but I'd like to get a second opinion from Laney.
<ricotz> ScottK, it is a bug-fix only release and i will prepare a sru for lucid at some point
<ScottK> ricotz: OK.  If it's bug fix only and not on any ISO images, it doesn't need release team approval.
<ScottK> It just needs approval from an Ubuntu developer.
<ricotz> ScottK, ok, sorry, i just want to do this right
<ScottK> ricotz: Certainly.  No harm in asking.
<ScottK> Trusting developers to upload a week before release without RT review is a little different than Debian does it ;-)
<mr_pouit> ScottK: thanks!
<ScottK> mr_pouit: You're welcome.
<crimsun> bdrung: is audacious/util.h deliberately missing in maverick's audacious-dev?  (looking at xmp's FTBFS)
<bdrung> crimsun: probably. i found src/libaudtag/util.h and src/audacious/util.h, but they are not installed.
<bdrung> crimsun: i checked it again: upstream does not install the util.h file.
<bdrung> crimsun: most functions defined there are removed. you probably have to include an other file in xmp.
<bdrung> crimsun: i'll be away in 5 mins
<crimsun> bdrung: sure, I'll take a look when I chunk through my backlog of 15.000 e-mails
<bdrung> crimsun: have you been on holiday for one or two weeks? ;)
<crimsun> bdrung: I have very infrequent Internet access because of my work location
<bdrung> ok
 * RainCT waits for someone to react to the "We've been doing this for 6 years and it's not working." comment (UDS brainstorm app devs thread)
<kklimonda> RainCT: heh, maybe ScottK's question is importent - should we switch to the BSD (or similar model) where we disitrbute only the core.. but then, what is the core of the Desktop-oriented distribution? questions, questions..
<kklimonda> important*
<ScottK> If we want to change the distribution model, then we should consider it and do it on purpose, not just back into it.
<kklimonda> right
<sladen> mmmhmm, incremental transition/adjustment/experimentation tends to me functional that dropping everything and going in a different direction
#ubuntu-motu 2010-10-03
<shadeslayer> coolbhavi: ok so the patch was done, but i cant seem to be able to use it in my package :(
<shadeslayer> i have this rules file http://paste.ubuntu.com/505094/
<shadeslayer> anyone else have a ideaa?
<persia> shadeslayer, I can't find enough context to understand what to suggest.  If you're still about, could you provide some?
<shadeslayer> persia: ive added a patch to a 1.0 format package, with that rules file
<shadeslayer> but i dont see the patch being applied :(
<persia> shadeslayer, How did you add the patch?
<shadeslayer> persia: by following quilt section of packaging guide
<shadeslayer> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete#quilt (Example Package: xterm)
<shadeslayer> ive never worked with patches + 1.0 source format :(
<persia> quilt new, quilt add, quilt refresh, quilt pop ?
<shadeslayer> yes
<persia> OK, so that would be right.
<persia> Now, how isn't it working?
<shadeslayer> its not applying the patch during debuild -S -sa
<shadeslayer> or debuild even...
<shadeslayer> thats the part im having trouble figuring out
<persia> That's fine.  Format 1.0 packages don't apply patches at source build time.
<shadeslayer> uh.. alright, but i can still reproduce my issue that the patch is supposed to fix
<shadeslayer> persia: also... quilt uses -p1 right?
<persia> quilt doesn't set a -p level as such, it's more complicated than that.
<shadeslayer> hmm.. well.. what to do
<shadeslayer> persia: heres the patch http://paste.ubuntu.com/505135/
<shadeslayer> package is choqok
<persia> OK.  What happens if you call `debian/rules patch` in the source directory?
<shadeslayer> it seems to have patched the file
<shadeslayer> patching file microblogs/twitter/twittereditaccount.cpp
<persia> and `debian/rules unpatch` ?
<shadeslayer> Removing patch kubuntu_01_consumerkey.diff
<persia> Well, that's expected output.
<persia> So, if you do a binary build, do you see similar entries in your build log?
<shadeslayer> yeah, but when i install the deb file i created with debuild, it doesnt use the consumer key i specified
<shadeslayer> maybe my patch is wrong.. who knows... ill talk with upstream
<persia> Aha!  So I think you want  /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/patchsys-quilt.mk instead of /usr/share/quilt/quilt.make (based on /usr/share/doc/quilt/README.Debian
<shadeslayer> ok lets see
<lucidfox> http://volatile-minds.blogspot.com/2010/10/re-elect-jesus-christ-vote-for-rick.html
<lucidfox> o_O
<lucidfox> What is this doing on Planet Ubuntu?
<persia> lucidfox, Are you complaining about the content or the poster?
<shadeslayer> persia: thanks, works now :D
<lucidfox> persia> Content
<persia> lucidfox, The common way to deal with that has been to firstly contact the poster, and ask for them not to post that, or if they must, please send only some tags to Planet Ubuntu.  If this is not received well, inform the Community Council that you find the content objectionable for some reason, and there will be discussion.
<persia> I think there's only ever been one case where it needed the second: most folk seem to post mostly related stuff *or* filter what hits planet.
<persia> (and the case in question was, potentially, on-topic, in some ways)
<juanito28> hola alguien habla espaÃ±ol
<crimsun> juanito28: por lo general inglÃ©s, por favor
<juanito28> no speak ingles
<zooko> I'm working on this wiki page: http://tahoe-lafs.org/trac/tahoe-lafs/wiki/OSPackages
<zooko> I seem to remember that ubuntu always had working https, but at the moment it appears not.
<zooko> Oh well, back to http.
<Mjiig> hi everyone, i'm not a motu (or good enough to be one :)) but i wanted to ask if anyone had any recommendations for projects i could do/help on as i learn C?
<geser> tumbleweed: I saw your commit to u-d-t (r767): have you checked that checkUpload returns True/False? see my comment regarding it in lpapicache.py: "checkUpload() throws an exception if the person can't upload"
<tumbleweed> geser: it returned True/False in my tests, but then so did isSourceUploadAllowed (I thought)
<tumbleweed> oh, I didn't test for false False with checkUpload, good catch
#ubuntu-motu 2011-09-26
<dholbach> good morning
<Rhonda> duh?  bug #850347
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 850347 in spl (Ubuntu) "Please sync spl 1.0~pre6-3 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/850347
<geser> went something wrong in this bug?
<Rhonda> Yes, the usual issue, non-communication.   %-/
<Rhonda> geser: My comment should be in there already.
<geser> Rhonda: saw it right now, looks like dtchen forgot to check other open bugs while working on the FTBFS. And unless you follow oneiric-changes there is no way to get notified about uploads
<Rhonda> geser: I like to differ, the PTS does/should mail out changes.
<Rhonda> I receive one for every irssi upload, and I received the mail for doko's upload. No clue why I didn't receive one for david's â¦
<geser> ah, I didn't know Debian's PTS can do it, LP can't (unless I missed something)
<Rhonda> And a "no way to get notified" is worrying to say the least, but I know the background why package maintainers aren't notified by default
<Rhonda> that is, Debian package maintainers :)
<Rhonda> But at least the multiarch patch could have been put into the BTS.
<Rhonda> I wonder why this multiarch path issue only lead to FTBFS in ubuntu but not in Debian? What would happen if I pull the patch into Debian, would Debian the FTBFS?
<geser> Rhonda: how far is Debian with multiarch compared to Ubuntu? I know there is also work ongoing in Debian but I didn't follow it closely.
<tumbleweed> geser: dpkg doesn't support it yet, and less libraries have been converted. But there are conversions happening
<Rhonda> Ah, then I take it Ubuntu aims to have multiarch support complete for oneiric, and thus has more pressure on the thing.
<tumbleweed> Rhonda: yeah, oneiric can run flash and skype without ia32-libs, already
<Rhonda> tumbleweed: actually, the benefit of that non-free reasoning eludes me :)
<tumbleweed> Rhonda: the simple benefit is that ia32libs is a monstrosity and should die :)
<Rhonda> that I can accept ;)
<cjwatson> Rhonda: there are plenty of free lines of reasoning for multiarch (e.g. has the potential to greatly simplify cross-compiling), but they don't provide the same kind of pressure and landmarks and such
<Rhonda> I understand, but having html5 and mumble, using flash and skype as reasoning for getting multiarch done only gives me a reason to yawn. Sorry for being ignorant in that respect. :)
<Rhonda> Though, granted, mumble requires a dedicated server. I really would like to have voice calls/conferences based on XMPP to lift off.
<cjwatson> the point isn't what we use, it's what our users use ...
<cjwatson> and making the support for non-free software be less of an imposition on free software developers' time is a good argument I think
<cjwatson> ia32-libs really is a nightmare ...
<Rhonda> "it sounded like a good idea at that time"
<Rhonda> *runsandhides*
<hrw> can someone help me with this dput error? http://paste.ubuntu.com/697245/ ppa upload
<hrw> worked earlier today
<hrw> nevermind - ppa started builds
<Rhonda> ignore it, it's common
<Rhonda> Hmm. What would people think if I ask for a FFe for gitolite? Useful? Not so?
<Laney> what's new?
<Rhonda> "hooklets" allow you to have any number of site-local 'update hook' scripts play nicely with gitolite, the "include" statement can now use globs -- makes some types of setups sooooo easy!, but most of all: self-service key management
<Laney> sounds like it would be nice to have, indeed
<Laney> backporting is also an option and should be easy as there are no rdeps
<micahg> geser: DMB meeting?
<Rhonda> Laney: Of course actually I should finally do a backport to lucid.
<Rhonda> But, past experience with backports doesn't convince me that I want to go through it for oneiric if I can do it through a FFe beforehand. ;)
<Laney> well, I can approve them if not make the upload happen
<geser> micahg: today 19 UTC, right? I'm sure I can make it today (some servers at work need to get hooked up on a UPS)
<micahg> geser: no, was 14:00
<geser> micahg: oh, I can't make the early meeting anyways as I can't predict if (and how much time) I can spare at work
<micahg> geser: ah, ok
<micahg> mdeslaur: there seems to be an issue with the last flashplugin-nonfree upload, could you take a look, bug 859225
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 859225 in flashplugin-nonfree (Ubuntu) "package flashplugin-installer 10.3.183.10ubuntu2 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/859225
<mdeslaur> micahg: argh, stupid mess...
<micahg> mdeslaur: yeah, but I'm talking about the packaging :)
<mdeslaur> /usr/lib/flashplugin-installer/libflashplayer.so is not a valid NPAPI plugin
<mdeslaur> I don't know how that could be
<mdeslaur> ooooh, I get it
<mdeslaur> ok, I'll upload a fix
<micahg> mdeslaur: thanks
<jtaylor> hm where should one direct people who open bugs to ask questions?
<micahg> jtaylor: askubuntu.com?  convert to question works as well, the greasemonkey script has a canned response which refers to askubuntu.com
<jtaylor> greasemonkey?
<jtaylor> mh some firefox thing ._.
<micahg> jtaylor: yeah, ppa:gm-dev-launchpad
<jtaylor> ah there is a button on lp to convert
#ubuntu-motu 2011-09-27
<ScottK> Rhonda: IA-32 libs didn't even sound like a good idea at the time, it was just something that could be done quickly.
<Rhonda> ssh, don't debunk my catch phrase :)
<ajmitch> don't let facts get in the way of a good argument? :)
<Rhonda> 'sactly!
<dholbach> good morning
<Rhonda> huhm
<Rhonda> I think I now saw the issue with packages.ubuntu.com myself â¦
<Rhonda> \o/ tumbleweed :)
<tumbleweed> Rhonda: lintian wasn't very impressed with it, though
<Rhonda> hmm?
<tumbleweed> E: gitolite: control-file-has-bad-permissions md5sums 0664 != 0644
<tumbleweed> E: gitolite: control-file-has-bad-permissions templates 0664 != 0644
<Rhonda> duh, how did that happen? Doesn't over here
<Rhonda> Ah, some umask probably playing into it on the build server
<tumbleweed> yeah, ubuntu changed umask recently
<Rhonda> but there is this "find $(TMP) ! -type l -print0 2>/dev/null | xargs -0r chmod go=rX,u+rw,a-s" in debian/rules which should adjust that?
<Rhonda> ah, wait, templates and md5sums, the control files
<tumbleweed> heh, I see Rhonda doesn't like packaging helpers :P
<Rhonda> which get generated _after_ the fixperms
<Rhonda> Hey, I wanted to know what kind of magic was going on in the background. Apparently not that much. :)
<Rhonda> tumbleweed: not liking is based on bad experiences where I had to do handstand coding to get rid of some annoyances, but that was years ago :)
<tumbleweed> it's a rather short rules for a no-helper package, I guess it helps that it's a nice simple one
<Rhonda> I tried to keep it short and simple so that it can be used as example :)
<Rhonda> Maybe I should throw in comments like "# this is the magic that dh_fixperms is actually doing"
<Rhonda> For more complex packages it though gets complicated and irritating. Don't look at spl's debian/rules.  ;)
<Rhonda> Hmm, not that overwhelming than I thought, but that might just be me and my experience with code â¦  226 lines
<Rhonda> tumbleweed: Should I fix the lintian issues you are seeing and request again, does that mean the package is now blocked, or is it even though it's an error acceptable?
<tumbleweed> I'd either suggest uploading 2.0.3-1ubuntu1 with that fixed, or just fix that in Debian and sync. If you made other changes in Debian too, I'd want to review it again
<Rhonda> I'd fix some other lintin output too
<tumbleweed> if that's manpages, that's fine with me
<Rhonda> debian-rules-missing-recommended-target
<Rhonda> out-of-date-copyright-format-uri
<Rhonda> Those three lines
<tumbleweed> fine
<Laney> the guy requesting the inkscape backport is my new best friend
<hrw> ok. I do not catch it. Package libc6-dev-armhf-cross provides libc6-dev-armhf-armel-cross but gcc-4.6-multilib-arm-linux-gnueabi depends on libc6-dev-armhf-armel-cross and complains on install that libc6-dev-armhf-armel-cross is not installed. Why "provides" does not solve it?
<Laney> is the depends versioned?
<hrw> Laney: package is 2.13 and depends is on >= 2.5
<Laney> versioned deps on virtual packages won't work http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html#s-virtual
<hrw> thanks
<hrw> will have to create dummy packages then
<hrw> let amd speeds up with buldozer cpus... I need to upgrade my machine
<Rhonda> tumbleweed: uploaded. :P
<Rhonda> hmm. Now I have gitolite_2.0.3-2_source.changes - what next? Never used syncpackage before, where to upload that to? :)
<Rhonda> And why did syncpackage re-sign the .dsc file while it already had a good signature?
<Laney> are you trying to do a --no-lp upload?
<Rhonda> No clue. :)
<Rhonda> So far I only did upload to my PPA, and did requestsync :)
<tumbleweed> oh, sorry Rhonda I should have been clearer when I suggested using syncpackage :)
<tumbleweed> I meant a new syncpackage that can do LP native syncing
<Rhonda> No problem, I want to learn. :)
<tumbleweed> >= 0.129
<Rhonda> ubuntu-dev-tools                          0.101
<tumbleweed> ah, we don't have a backport to debian stable
<Laney> I bet that's a rather small userbase :-)
<tumbleweed> although the PPA build for maverick might work on there
<Rhonda> Laney could do it, he got upload permissions to backports recently. :P
<tumbleweed> otherwise, it should run fine out of a bzr checkout
<Laney> it requires some other backports too
<Laney> since some scripts moved about
<Rhonda> Anyway, I let it rest for now, will try at home from my wheezy laptop
<tumbleweed> yeah, stuff moved to devscripts, distro-info, and lp-tools
<Laney> bdrung said a backport to natty would be too hard, so stable â¦
<tumbleweed> Laney: OTOH, backporting this specific feature anywhere wouldn't be that hard
<ScottK> I'm fine with that.
<bdrung> Laney: you can do it, if you backport devscripts, distro-info, lp-tools, and python-debian
<Laney> if [list of tiresome things]
<Laney> I wouldn't know enough about how cherry-pickable syncpackage is â didn't it require some changes in ubuntutools/?
<Laney> but, I support doing that
<tumbleweed> I'm happy to do some exploration into that
<Rhonda> Laney: I wouldn't accept a cherry-picked backport anyway. :P
<Laney> I was referring to natty-backports
<tumbleweed> this is a generally useful thing to backport in Ubuntu
<tumbleweed> probably less so in Debian
<tumbleweed> talking of which, I still need someone to review my u-d-t SRUs in Ubuntu. I don't like verifying my own SRUs
<Laney> Rhonda: btw, is there any plan for backports integrating with the bts? Like it learning about backports versions and so on.
<Rhonda> Laney: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2011/06/msg00247.html and following
<Rhonda> Laney: tl;dr - no version tracking in the BTS, but most important: No concept of different maintainers for a package
<Laney> well yeah, but that's not unsolvable
<Laney> if backporting, change the maintainer and let the bts know that different versions can have different maintainers
<Laney> but i will read it
<Rhonda> I'll tell don that we have a volunteer  \o/
<Rhonda> But that's exact the issue: The bts doesn't has the concept yet that different versions can have different maintainers
<Laney> or have backports bugs sent to some pts keyword that the maintainer isn't subscribed to by default
<Rhonda> There are loads of ideas how it could be done, but noone doing the actual code. The issue is known since a pretty long time now. (in this case) unfortunately there isn't a canonical behind Debian that would make sure that such things get done in a timely manner, and it didn't itch noone big enough yet to fix it
<Rhonda> I'd be more than interested in digging into it, but there are so much other tasks that I look after that otherwise would be lying around because they are also uninteresting to others
<Laney> :-)
<Rhonda> Heck, I haven't got to looking at the squeeze RC graph since a few months, and squeeze is meant to be a supported release.  %-/
<tumbleweed> Laney, bdrung: I did a quick and dirty backport in bug 860506
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 860506 in natty-backports "Backport native package syncing to ubuntu-dev-tools" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/860506
<tumbleweed> there is unecessary stuff included, but I don't think it's dangerous, and I preferred to backport whole files where possible
<Laney> cool
<Laney> it'd be good to test various types of sync
 * tumbleweed only did simulated requestsync and syncpackage
<hrw> why when I am dputting http://paste.ubuntu.com/697897/ to ppa I do not get orig.tar.gz uploaded http://paste.ubuntu.com/697898/ ?
<Zhenech> did you include it in "build"?
<hrw> good point. _source.changes lacks it
<Zhenech> -sa to debbuild
<hrw> Zhenech: thx
<Zhenech> it defaults to include it in -1 uploads and do not in everything else
<hrw> but there was no uploads of it previously and package is -1~linaro5 for a reason
<hrw> ok, /me -> code
<Zhenech> weill, -1~linaro5 isn't -1 ;)
<Zhenech> and debuild doesnt know that you didnt upload anything else yet
<hrw> yep
<SMJ> is Box2D going to be updated any time soon?
<SMJ> oh, feature freeze.
<tumbleweed> SMJ: yeah, it would require lots of jumping up and down to make it happen (and a good reason, and some testing)
#ubuntu-motu 2011-09-28
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hey ajmitch
<jamespage> morning all
<Laney> hiya!
<Ash-Fox> I have to ask, is there a better way of providing how to setup repository to other people? Right now I have to give a long string to copy paste into the terminal like: sudo bash -c "echo deb http://pkg.roadapp.internal/x86 ./ > /etc/apt/sources.list.d/roadapp" && wget http://pkg.roadapp.internal/key.asc -O - | sudo apt-key add - && sudo apt-get update; sudo apt-get install roadapp
<Ash-Fox> And that seems kind of obnoxious to me
<tumbleweed> Rhonda: still intending to sync gitolite yourself?
<broder> Ash-Fox: if you're using a PPA there's the add-apt-repository command; we generally focus on optimizing that route over 3rd party repositories because it establishes some (admittedly low) base-line level of trust about where the binaries are coming from
<Ash-Fox> broder, cool, that's a bit better than before.
<jtaylor> if someone merges this before final freeze I would be grateful: https://code.launchpad.net/~jtaylor/ubuntu/oneiric/meld/fix-two-undo-bugs/+merge/77387
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 77387 in phpWMS 1.8 "Retailers Manager Place Order page 1 line total rounding issue" [Medium,Confirmed]
<micahg> jtaylor: that's not affect by tomorrow's freeze
<jtaylor> mkay then no rush
<Rhonda> tumbleweed: Ah, around again, yes.
<Rhonda>   File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/lazr/restfulclient/resource.py", line 804, in __getitem__
<Rhonda>     raise IndexError("list index out of range")
<tumbleweed> what ubuntu-dev-tools do you have? that sounds like a bug I fxed in teh last upload
<Rhonda> syncpackage -d unstable -r oneiric -c main -k DD079461 -b 860326 --no-lp --simulate http://ftp.at.debian.org/debian/pool/main/g/gitolite/gitolite_2.0.3-2.dsc
<Rhonda> That was my commandline
<Rhonda> 0.131 that is
<tumbleweed> Rhonda: 0.132 fixes that, and don't use --no-lp
<Rhonda> syncpackage: error: .dsc files can only be synced using --no-lp.
<Rhonda> That's what I got when I didn't use --no-lp :)
<tumbleweed> Rhonda: syncpackage --simulate gitolite
<tumbleweed> err -b 860326
<tumbleweed> it can work everything else out
<Rhonda> syncpackage: error: .dsc files can only be synced using --no-lp.
<Rhonda> or without giving the URL
<Rhonda> syncpackage: error: No .dsc URL/path or package name specified.
<tumbleweed> Rhonda: don't provide a URL, it syncs from the copy in launchpad already
<bdrung> Rhonda: use 'gitolite' instead of the dsc file
<Rhonda> oh
<ajmitch> it all works like magic :)
<tumbleweed> heh
<Rhonda> It did put me out the changelog difference.
<ajmitch> at least when the right fixes make it into -updates
<tumbleweed> Rhonda: right, without the --simulate, it'll then ask you if you want to go ahead
<Rhonda> of course  *selfkick*
<ajmitch> see, it's doing exactly what you specify :)
<Rhonda> syncpackage: Please wait for the sync to be successful before closing bugs.
<tumbleweed> it could have said "I'm only simulating, ktxbye"... :P
<Rhonda> tumbleweed: Yes, would have helped me with being tired. :)
<ajmitch> tumbleweed: what do you need to get ubuntu-dev-tools out of -proposed & into -updates?
<ajmitch> just some WFM comments on the bugs now?
<Rhonda> So what should I wait for now?
<tumbleweed> ajmitch: someone to do some testing, it's pretty trivial, you can test it with requestsync
<Rhonda> Where do I see whether the sync was successful or not?
<ajmitch> tumbleweed: ok, I've got at least lucid, maverick & natty here to test with :)
<tumbleweed> Rhonda: you might be waiting all night, because the archive is in manual, and your sync might not be approved immediately
<Rhonda> ah, wait, it said email :)
<tumbleweed> so you can just go ahead and close them if you want
<Rhonda> So that I see what it will actually do, doing so.
<Rhonda> Was my own bug anyway.
<tumbleweed> ajmitch: thanks
<Rhonda> tumbleweed: Thanks for showing me. :)
<tumbleweed> np
#ubuntu-motu 2011-09-29
<dholbach> good morning
<Laney> hiya
<nigelb> ohai Laney :)
<Laney> alright?
<nigelb> Yep, you?
<Laney> aye
<Laney> we're in the middle of a mini heatwave
<Laney> which is always nice
<nigelb> Oh, heat wave here as well, but I won't call that nice ;)
<Laney> apparently we're in for a very cold autumn/winter, so I'll take it while it lasts...
<iulian> Laney: Exactly what I was about to say.
 * Laney knits iulian a jumper
<iulian> Oh, thanks. :)
<tumbleweed> and we've just had a couple of cold nights. Can't wait for summer (even though I know I'll be cursing the heat)
<ScottSanbar> hi
<jariq> i've accidentally deleted urls in my apt.conf could someone please provide me one?
<jariq> default one would be great
<jariq> just found http://en.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ thx for support :)
<lfaraone> persia: ping
<Chat2389> heeey
#ubuntu-motu 2011-09-30
<dholbach> good morning
<jtaylor_> ScottK: any opinions what to do with the numpy multiarch issue for oneiric? bug 818867, ugly patch in linked debian bug
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 818867 in python-numpy (Ubuntu) "numpy.distutils provides inaccurate system information for ubuntu-11.10" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/818867
<ScottK> jtaylor: I can apt-get install python-enable in a clean chroot with no issue, so I don't think the bug is correct.
<jtaylor> enable was fixed
<ScottK> OK.
<jtaylor> the issue is numpy
<jtaylor> btw you told me to ahve a look at that, besides what is in the debian bug I have no more input
<jtaylor> no idea what plans there are to upstream multiarch stuff
<ScottK> My opinion then is we should do what I always do with multiarch stuff.
<ScottK> I pass the buck to slangasek.
<ScottK> slangasek: Thoughts on http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?msg=5;filename=numpy-multiarch.patch;att=1;bug=640940
<jtaylor> btw installing was never an issue, its just about compiling stuff using numpy.distutils
<slangasek> heh
 * slangasek makes himself scarce and lets the remaining multiarch problems fix themselves ;p
<slangasek> well, that's not upstreamable of course
<slangasek> wasn't there a more-upstreamable multiarch search rule being pushed upstream for python itself?
<slangasek> http://bugs.python.org/issue12418 -ish?
<slangasek> ultimately, we need a non-Debian-specific runtime interface for querying the path, but we're not there yet
<slangasek> (config.multiarch or some such)
<lfaraone> slangasek: think you could ACK my recent upload of pitos to oneiric?
<jtaylor> so are there any objections to adding that non-upstreamable patch to numpy for oneiric?
<lfaraone> *pithos
<jtaylor> it doesn't break many package (non which havent been fixed via workaroudns to my knowledge) but who knows what user programs it breaks
<slangasek> jtaylor: uh... "it doesn't break many packages" is not the right standard for an upload during final freeze
<slangasek> lfaraone: looking
 * lfaraone is afk, airplane. 
<jtaylor> hm yes probably a bit late
<jtaylor> hopefully we'll have a proper fix for P
<slangasek> lfaraone: I guess support for proto 31 may be dropped some time during the o support cycle, then?
<slangasek> oh, I see v31 is already dropped - right then :)
<ScottK> slangasek: How about 0 day SRU for the numpy thing.  Then we have an easy backwards path if there are issues?
<slangasek> ScottK: that sounds saner to me.  what's the actual bug being fixed?  The patch doesn't enlighten me as to why it's needed
<ScottK> The bug is numpy can't find the X11 libs.
<ScottK> Which is a side effect of the bigger issue that it thinks it's required to care.
<slangasek> but then adding this change breaks other packages?
<jtaylor> it should only fix them
<jtaylor> its adding an extra library search directory
<jtaylor> can that be an issue if there is a possible library in both?
<jtaylor> gcc will ust pick the first in the list or?
#ubuntu-motu 2011-10-01
<pLp> Hey guys
<pLp> I have an Idea
<pLp> Bilal?
<pLp> Going to sleep
<pLp> Bye
<jbicha> I'm having trouble figuring out how to get pbuilder-dist to use a PPA as an additional source
<jbicha> I ran 'pbuilder-dist oneiric login --save-after-login' and did apt-key add to add the PPA key
<jbicha> pbuilder-dist oneiric update -udcar --othermirror 'deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/jbicha/dev/ubuntu oneiric main'
<jbicha> pbuilder-dist oneiric build gnome-documents_0.2.0-0~ppa3.dsc --othermirror 'deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/jbicha/dev/ubuntu oneiric main'
<jbicha> adding the PPA seemed to work but it won't satisfy the build-depends from the PPA
<ScottK> Just add the PPA to sources.list while you're logged in.
<Laney> I think pbuilder-dist overrides the sources.list inside the chroot
<jbicha> yeah, I don't think pbuilder-dist respects the sources.list :(
<Laney> I'm not sure of the machinations you need to fix that :( /me uses sbuild which does nothing so nasty
 * jbicha tries again with --override-config
<jbicha> nope, that didn't work either
<cjwatson> I think I brutally hacked pbuilder-dist here to stop overriding stuff
<cjwatson> ah yes, http://paste.ubuntu.com/700744/
<cjwatson> it's a bodge, I want to switch to sbuild at some point when I have time
<cjwatson> seeing as I'm already using schroot anyway
<stlsaint> sbuild better than pbuilder?
<Laney> the main annoyance with sbuild is needing to set up your own caching
<cjwatson> my general impression is that sbuild is more powerful but harder to set up
<stlsaint> aye ok
<lifeless> ScottK: I can barely parse the subject for bug 335913
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 335913 in Launchpad itself "Availability of a package to provide a virtual package not noticed to clear depwait" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/335913
<lifeless> ScottK: is a valid rephrasing 'virtual packages do not trigger retry of depwait builds' ?
<lifeless> or hmm
<lifeless> 'builds that provide a virtual package do not trigger retry of depwait builds depending on the virtual packakge'
<pLpB> Good Afternoon
<ScottK> lifeless: I think that either of those is ~correct.  I filed it a long time ago.
<Amigordinho> Hello
<lifeless> ScottK: thanks
<lifeless> ScottK: I used a third formulation as it happens, but should be within ||
<jbicha> Laney: ok, got it to work with sbuild, thanks
<Laney> no worries
<jbicha> now I just need to figure out why I hit this error "checking for gobject-introspection... configure: error: gobject-introspection-1.0 is not installed"
<Laney> missing libgirepository1.0-dev?
<jbicha> Laney: thank you!
#ubuntu-motu 2011-10-02
<ScottK> lifeless: Yes.  It was fine.
<lifeless> ScottK: thanks!
<shayonj> hello there. i am new to motu and ubuntu packaging. i kind of got done with packaging guide. and was browsing through the bitesize bugs and found one. wondering, do i just start working on it directly or is there something needs to be done before that
<shayonj> ?
<shayonj> for some reason i feel the guides are too confusing or less organized
<shayonj> but its fun :)
<ScottK> shayonj: Just dive in and ask questions if you have them.
<shayonj> ScottK, sure thanks man :)
<ScottK> It would be good if some MOTU could look into Bug 864095 and maybe updating gramps to 3.3.1.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 864095 in gramps (Ubuntu) "list index out of range in gettext.install(TransUtils.LOCALEDOMAIN, localedir=None, unicode=1)" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/864095
<shayonj> does anyone know what does this read - Located in obj-i686-linux-gnu/config/ui_qtcurveconfigbase.h:4191 rc.cpp:889 rc.cpp:889
<shayonj> or just this - 4191 rc.cpp:889 rc.cpp:889  ? For the rest i believe you will be needing to take a look at the source code
<ScottK> It's referring to line 4191 of ui_qtcurveconfigbase.h and line 889 of rc.cpp.  You need to look in the source.
<shayonj> okay i thought so, but there is no file like ui_qtcurveconfigbase.h in the config folder, infact the the file qtcurveconfigbase.ui has the bug (its typo) mentioned in here https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kde-style-qtcurve/+bug/852957
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 852957 in kde-style-qtcurve (Ubuntu) "typo in translation template qtcurve" [Undecided,New]
<jbicha> ScottK: I didn't think gramps 3.3.1 was released yet
<shayonj> ScottK, and there is no file like rc.cpp in the source code
<ScottK> jbicha: Not sure.  Just reading what's in the bug.  If there's a fix and it's not released, it might be worth cherrypicking it.
<jbicha> ScottK: I'm subscribed to the gramps mailing list and it sounds like the new release is imminent
<ScottK> shayonj: It's in config/qtcurveconfigbase.ui
<ScottK> jbicha: OK.  As long as someone is watching over it.
<shayonj> ScottK, okay
<shayonj> ScottK, thanks !.
<ScottK> shayonj: I did "grep -r cusom *" in the source package.
<shayonj> ScottK, oh right.. should have used that .
<shayonj> ScottK, so did you make the changes ?
<shayonj> or i can do ahead do that here :P
<ScottK> shayonj: No.
<ScottK> (I didn't)
<shayonj> ScottK, cool.
<ScottK> shayonj: I did look and see that there's a newer version on the upstream web site.  You might want to look and see if they've already fixed this.
<ScottK> (look in debian/control for the upstream homepage)
<shayonj> ScottK, okay!
<shayonj> ScottK, nope its not fixed.so is it a good idea to fix this bug or report the new version and then fix it ?
<ScottK> It's debatable.
<ScottK> We get this package from Debian without change and so in the long run, maintaining such a small diff for the package isn't a great idea.
<ScottK> OTOH, we are close to a release and it'd be nice to get it fixed.
<ScottK> So I'd see about doing both.
<shayonj> ScottK, okay !
<ScottK> Get a fix in Ubuntu and also let upstream know so that it's fixed.
<ScottK> We could also report the bug to Debian if we were being really thorough, but for this I think going upstream is enough.
<shayonj> ScottK, yeah i was going to ask that. how do i do that ? there are steps mentioned on that in so many places.but i am confused which one to go with
<shayonj> as in letting the upstream know about it
<ScottK> That varies based on the upstream.
<shayonj> i see
<ScottK> For this one, you go to http://kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=40492&forumpage=157 and leave a comment.
<shayonj> ScottK, okay. i got one more question, sorry to bug you. So after i make the changes, do i update the changelog, package it and let them know ?
<ScottK> for upstream, I'd just make a diff and give them that.
<ScottK> For Ubuntu that would also be good, but even better would be a good debian/changelog entry with a complete debdiff if you know how to do that.
<shayonj> ScottK, cool. thanks so much :0
<shayonj> :) *
<shayonj> ScottK, yep. i just got done with this - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/Debdiff
<ScottK> For Ubuntu, once you have something, attach it to the bug and subscribe ubuntu-sponsors to the bug.
<ScottK> someone will review it.
<shayonj> ScottK, what do i attach ?
<shayonj> the new package right ?
<ScottK> The debdiff from the old one to the new one.
<shayonj> okay
<shayonj> ScottK, i got one more question. The same typo is there in more than one file in the new release ? i can fix that, but do i report it first or leave a comment ?
<ScottK> I would fix all the templates too.
<shayonj> ScottK, i didnt get that.templates, as in ?
<ScottK> The other files it affects are translation templates (the PO files)
<ScottK> .pot/.po
<shayonj> oh right yes. i am doing that. i am just wondering, do i need to file a report first about this or just fix it and leave a comment in the upstream ?
<shayonj> and what ubuntu in this case?
<shayonj> what about ubuntu *
<ScottK> Fix them all.
<ScottK> (for ubuntu) and then list all the affected files in the upstream comment you leave.
<shayonj> cool
 * ScottK goes for a nap.
<shayonj> ScottK, thanks and have a good one !
<shayonj> i am trying to make the debdiff and it tells me "Can't check signature: public key not found" .
<shayonj> do i need to sign the .dsc file too along with the .changes ?
<shayonj> any help on this ?
<shayonj> oops it already, guess its just not able to verify
<shayonj> how do we create branch for the bugs we work on ?
<shayonj> the way mentioned here ?
<shayonj> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/Debdiff
<ScottK> shayonj: Just attach the debdiff to the bug.  You don't need a branch then.
<shayonj> yay ScottK is back :).. yep did that. thanks man
<ScottK> Then as long as you subscribed ubuntu-sponsors to the bug, you've done your bit.
<shayonj> oh yeah did that too. working on the newer version. and i upload the diff file in the comment there, right ?
<ScottK> If it's just that fix, all that's needed is the debdfiff.
<shayonj> okay !
<ScottK> Whoever sponsors the package will use the current package plus your debdiff to remake the new package.
<shayonj> i see. okay but this newer version, does not have a debian folder
<shayonj> so no control/changelog
<shayonj> sorry
<shayonj> my bad.. didnt let it extract :P
<shayonj> for some reason debuild is only building the debian folder, any help on this ?
<bwright> Hey guys package blogtk is broken, it doesn't have python gtkhtml2 library and fails to run.
<bwright> Please look into it.
<micahg> bwright: someone needs to package a new version
<xxxS> hi
<xxxS> people
<shayonj> need some help with packaging from scratch . this program does not have a make/install file, where as it runs by the shell script file (linux-install.sh). So i am wondering will the guide mentioned here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete#Packaging_from_Scratch be helpful ?
<shayonj> as the rules file is working with the make arguments
<shayonj> anyone ?
#ubuntu-motu 2012-09-24
<dholbach> good morning
<bkerensa> dholbach: so uhh one of the bug initiative packages does not have a depends line
<dholbach> bkerensa, that happens - in that case just add it
<bkerensa> dholbach: uhh ok then
<iulian> Laney: Everyone calls me Julian, even my family. But, the name Iulian is pronounced you-lee-an with a strong 'a', similar to the letter 'r'.
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
<bkerensa> dholbach: Could I pardon you for a PM?
<dholbach> sure
<lifeless> rly
<lifeless> bah
<Laney> what's the host for the lintian lab?
<Laney> tumbleweed: do you remember?
<Zhenech> Laney, lintian.d.o? :)
<Laney> Zhenech: doesn't help me grep for X-Ubuntu-Use-Langpack :P
<Zhenech> or do you have your own?
<Laney> yes
<Zhenech> ah
<geser> Laney: how about "lintian.ubuntuwire.org"? :)
<Laney> geser: that's syklone somehow, which isn't it
<geser> we have a second lintian somewhere?
<Laney> it must mirror or proxy its output
<Laney> nm, found it
<Laney> I could have sworn it was supposed to have unpacked source
<tumbleweed> Laney: erm, yes, I thought so
<Laney> tumbleweed: can you find it?
<Laney> I thought it at least had control files, which is what I want here
<tumbleweed> wow, I remembered the hostname
<Laney> all I remembered is that it was something weird
<tumbleweed> seems like it has full sources
<Laney> unpacked? where?
<Laney> I see dsc .debian.tar.gz .orig.tar.gz
<tumbleweed> unpacked/binaries/data ?
 * tumbleweed doesn't really know his way around lintian labs
<Laney> unpacked?
 * Laney is lost
<Laney> I'm in /srv/lintian/laboratory/quantal/pool/x/xmonad
<tumbleweed> oh
<tumbleweed> I was in 0ad-data
<Laney> oh yes
<Laney> creepy
<tumbleweed> something broken?
<cjwatson> there should be an unpacked directory up a few levels, yeah
<cjwatson> err possibly per-package
<Laney> can't see it
<tumbleweed> the xmonad source package only has symlinks to the source package
<tumbleweed> it hasn't been unpacked for some reason
<tumbleweed> (at all)
<cjwatson> mm, on lintian.d.o:
<cjwatson> cjwatson@lilburn:/srv/lintian.debian.org/laboratory/pool/x/xmonad$ ls
<cjwatson> libghc-xmonad-dev_0.10-4+b2_i386_binary   xmonad_0.10-4+b2_i386_binary
<cjwatson> libghc-xmonad-doc_0.10-4_all_binary       xmonad_0.10-4_source
<cjwatson> libghc-xmonad-prof_0.10-4+b2_i386_binary
<Laney> is it unpacked inside _source?
<cjwatson> there's *_binary/control/ with binary control files, and *_source/debfiles/ which is a copy of debian/
<Laney> yep, some packages on our one have that
<Laney> but a lot do not
<Laney> http://lintian.ubuntuwire.org/quantal/full/pkg-haskell-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org.html#xmonad however it does have output
<cjwatson> must've been cleaned up
<Laney> most unfortunate
<Laney> I wanted to find out what was affected by https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1048556
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1048556 in Launchpad itself "Language pack translations export needs to add universe packages to domain map" [Low,Triaged]
<Laney> X-Ubuntu-Use-Langpack: yes in control
<marga> Hey.  I've submitted a debdiff to launchpad, ubuntu-sponsors is subscribed to the bug, so I'm waiting for sponsorship of the change... How long does it usually take?  Is there anything extra I should do to make it go faster?
<tumbleweed> marga: you can see some graphs on the sponsorship queue page http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/
<geser> marga: you could try if some bribery works to speed it up :)
<marga> tumbleweed, ok, I see it.
<marga> geser, what kind of bribery?
<marga> I actually work for a paying customer of Canonical... But I dislike going through the bureaucracy related to that.
<geser> marga: depends on your sponsor, but it's usually fast enough even without bribery (was just joking)
<tumbleweed> cookies, beer, whisky, fixing RC bugs - all work well :)
<marga> Ok, I'll just wait then.  Hopefully it won't take too long.
<tumbleweed> you can ask on IRC if you're in a hurry. But generally, things takea week or two
<tumbleweed> marga: your debdiff seems to be against the backports version, but there is also the release pocket
 * tumbleweed has no idea how the backports team is going to deal with this :)
<geser> tumbleweed: it's correct in this specific case as myunity isn't in quantal anymore
<tumbleweed> yes
<tumbleweed> but we also need an SRU
<marga> I'm happy to do it against any other version.
<marga> From what I gathered last week I though precise-backports was the correct one.
<tumbleweed> some users will be using the version in precise, some in precise-backports
<cjwatson> I suggest ". /etc/lsb-release" rather than "source /etc/lsb-release", since "source" is a bashism
<marga> cjwatson, ok.
<cjwatson> pure drive-by though
<marga> cjwatson, ok, will change it, thanks :)
 * tumbleweed wonders if bug 1055435 is a good pre-release backport candidate (haven't looked at it in detail)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1055435 in Ubuntu "[FFe] Feature Freeze exception: new package classicmenu-indicator" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1055435
<Laney> I saw that, wondered who was going to maintain it, and closed the bug
<Laney> s/bug/tab/ to be less ambiguous
<tumbleweed> the guy who proposed it does care
<tumbleweed> (and I can twist his arm into caring more)
<Laney> doesn't appear to be him that created the package though
<tumbleweed> yeah, I hope he had a good look at it
<micahg> tumbleweed: Laney: at this stage of the game IMHO, backports is better since we can easily delete something from backports post release (also, as seen with myunity, people might not want to continuously port stuff forward)
<Laney> Well it automatically gets promoted to the next release, so ...
<micahg> right, but if there are bugs reported and/or it fails to build in the following release's test build, it'll get removed
<micahg> *RC bugs reported and not fixed
<Laney> I don't see how that's any different to what would happen if it were in the release proper
<Laney> either it works now in Q or it doesn't
<Laney> now I do think it would be fine to put it in backports, but it doesn't change my usual concerns about ubuntu-local packages at all
<Laney> if you want the other semantics, well, use extras
<tumbleweed> as something unity-specific, there's no escaping ubuntu-local, as much as we dislike it
<Laney> not saying there is
<Laney> you need to be sure that there is a person who will look out for it
<Laney> like, we'd expect them to be coming up for PPU before very long
<micahg> Laney: in the release proper, we can't delete post release
<Laney> so?
<Laney> It's not very likely to stop working post release
<micahg> so, if it's found to be RC buggy after release, we're stuck with it
<Laney> I don't find that a very good argument in favour of backports: "it's where you can put your crap software, because we're not stuck with it there"
<micahg> no, I'm just saying at this stage of the game (post FF, 4 weeks out from release) that backports is a safer bet in general that the release pocket
<Laney> we should be assuming that pre-release backports will continue to live on in the distro
<micahg> yes, of course
<micahg> I'm not saying backports is a dumping ground, but rather we do have more flexibility there just in case
<tumbleweed> we should re-define the new policy process - say that we expect bug subscribers, and the expectation of (future) upload rights for the proposer
<tumbleweed> s/new policy/new package policy/
<micahg> bug subscription, yes, PPU, I wouldn't mandate that
<Laney> but nobody ever checks on these things
<micahg> intention to provide sponsored updates, yes
<micahg> Laney: sounds like we have a topic for the next MOTU meeting :)
<tumbleweed> oops minutes
 * tumbleweed writes two sets of minutes
<Laney> hours
<micahg> hours can be days
<Laney> Centuries of the Developer Membership Board Meeting, 2012-09-24
<highvoltage> Like sands through the hourglass, so are the days of our MOTUs
#ubuntu-motu 2012-09-25
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hey iulian :)
<mitya57> good morning dholbach :)
<dholbach> hey mitya57
<dholbach> I'm doing an ubuntu development hangout in ~15m - would anyone like to co-host it with me? :)
<aboudreault> co-host?
<aboudreault> ha, you are the host speaking?
<aboudreault> (sorry for my english :P)
<dholbach> it's a public video stream where I want to talk about ubuntu development - if somebody who is also involved in ubuntu development wanted to be part of the hosts, so talking about ubuntu development, answering questions and the like, that'd be nice
<dholbach> if not, I'll present on my own
<dholbach> the last few times we had coolbhavi there, but I'm not sure if he can make it today as we moved the hangout an hour forward
<tumbleweed> Logan_: the debian bugs you mention in bug 1028761 don't seem to be mentioned in the quoted changelog
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1028761 in git-annex (Ubuntu) "FFe: Sync git-annex 3.20120721 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1028761
<tumbleweed> and the debian bugtracker says they were fixed in a different upload
<Logan_> oh god I fail
<Logan_> one sec
<Logan_> also, that sync can't happen yet
<Logan_> due to unresolvable dependencies
<Logan_> but let me fix the description
<tumbleweed> also: They are both about build failures due to test failures
<tumbleweed> but the version curretnly in quantal built just fine
<tumbleweed> (although I haven't tried rebuilding it)
<Logan_> fixed the description
<Logan_> hmm
<Laney> haha @ -ctte
<tumbleweed> lol
<tumbleweed> Logan_: and now I have - it builds fine
<tumbleweed> so, I'm not saying I'm against a new git-annex, but we need a better reason than "it failed to build in debian, and they fixed it"
<Logan_> hmm, okay
<Logan_> I mean, there are a bunch of bug fixes as well
<Logan_> it isn't just new features
<tumbleweed> right, then motivate it with those
<Laney> it built!?!?!?
 * Laney got:
<Laney>  sbuild-build-depends-git-annex-dummy : Depends: libghc-network-multicast-dev but it is not installable
<Laney>                                         Depends: libghc-network-info-dev but it is not installable
<tumbleweed> Laney: the version currently in quantal
<Logan_> tumbleweed is referring to theâ¦ yeah
<Laney> I thought we were talking about a synx
<Laney> c
<Laney> sphinx
<Logan_> tumbleweed: and I just requested an FFe for libghc-network-multicast-dev :(
 * Laney meows
 * Logan_ cries
<micahg> so, it'll fail in the rebuild in a few days :)
<tumbleweed> Logan_: that's what took me here
<Logan_> gah
<tumbleweed> micahg: no, it builds fine, now
<mitya57> tumbleweed: so there was a DMB meeting yesterday? :(
<Logan_> well, I unsubscribed sponsors from the git-annex sync
<Logan_> and I guess I'll unsubscribe sponsors from the haskell-network-multicast sync as well
<Logan_> pending a better reason to sync the new version of git-annex
<Logan_> since the current version apparently builds in quantal :P
 * Logan_ hates FFe
<tumbleweed> it's worth investigating whether debian's rc bugs are relevant to us
<Logan_> I usually do
<Logan_> slipped my mind with this package
<Logan_> even though it's painfully easy to check if it will build
<tumbleweed> think of FFes as a necessary evil :)
<Logan_> -necessary
<Logan_> more like just evil ;P
<tumbleweed> if we didn't make it hard, people would upload all sorts of crazy stuff
<tumbleweed> (actually, they do, but shh)
<jamespage> Laney, stop poking my Debian badness :-)
<Laney> happy to be of service!
<jamespage> Laney, I even filed the ITP - just got distracted
 * highvoltage can't help reading xnox's changelog entries and hearing it in his voice
<xnox> highvoltage: ubiquity?
<xnox> or code reviews?
<highvoltage> ubiquity.
<xnox> *sigh*
<xnox> it's not that bad, is it?
<highvoltage> no it's not bad at all
<Laney> aww
<Laney> I think he was being nice
<highvoltage> your written you and your real-life you is just very consistent and somehow when you say things like "*sigh*" I can already see how you're really doing it in real life already too
<highvoltage> (sorry for finding entertainment value in it :p)
<xnox> meh
<xnox> ;)
<xnox> will be doing ubuntu download & installation documentation review on thursday. Should be fun.... =)
 * highvoltage should do that too for the updated edubuntu docs
<highvoltage> (even though we'll pretty recommend that people stick to 12.04 LTS)
<highvoltage> s/pretty/pretty much/g
<Laney> :O
<highvoltage> Laney: with unity 2d gone ltsp is a bit more problematic on 12.10 and it doesn't bring any killer features so they're mostly really just better off on LTS this time
<Laney> I suppose most edubuntu deployments will be LTS anyway
<highvoltage> (and Edubuntu 12.04.1 is very solid, really)
<highvoltage> yeah. I guess for single-install laptops and home desktops, etc 12.10 would be ok
<highvoltage> we should really just start a campaign to get people involved in backporting educational packages in the archives
<highvoltage> and package a bunch of stuff that's not available in it, but that should be yet another campaign.
<highvoltage> there's just so much to do.
 * highvoltage caves a little more
<xnox> like mythbuntu?
<highvoltage> no like in the utopia that I imagine the world could be.
<Laney> I revise my lolling at -ctte down to sighing
<jtaylor> meh lost irc and thunderbird in quantal with yesterdays updates ...
<Laney> 'lost'?
<jtaylor> both apps won't start, smuxi even kills my X :(
<Laney> let me guess
<Laney> you're updating from proposed
<jtaylor> yes, a mistake apparently
<Laney> as has been repeatedly advertised
<jtaylor> really?
<jtaylor> I didn't enable proposed myself
<Laney> yeah, requires manual disabling currently
<dupondje> Somebody around here that knows alot of GTK+ ?
<geser> dupondje: you might have better luck in #ubuntu-desktop (or even better #gtk+ on irc.gnome.org)
<dupondje> geser: tried both :) seems quite silent :)
<Laney> gtk or gnome-hackers would be much better
<Laney> dead or no dead
#ubuntu-motu 2012-09-26
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Goooood morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hi iulian!
<bobweaver> Hello there I was just playing around with playonlinx when I noticed that a third of the programs will not install because it (play on linux version) Is too old. I am on 12.10  the version is 4.1.1 and I noticed on Play on linux's site that they are up to 4.1.8 so I installed 4.1.8  and this version is way better then the one in the ubuntu ppa I mean there is more features and way more tools. So I was thinking why does Ubuntu have such
<bobweaver> a old versions ? And is there anything that I could do to update the repo to be 4.1.8 and not 4.1.1 ?
<bobweaver> thanks for your time
<cjwatson> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=687207
<ubottu> Debian bug 687207 in playonlinux "playonlinux: New version available" [Wishlist,Open]
<bobweaver> cjwatson,  should I make debian package of 4.1.8 ?
<bobweaver> I do not know How to work with debian though they where real real real real real mean to mean on there channels when I was 1st starting out so I do not know if I care to either
<bobweaver> maybe someone can explain some stuff to me about there hosting and what not at UDS ?
<bobweaver> would any one like to set up a appointment with me at UDS to explain there hosting and tools that they use ?
<bobweaver> I have a question about debuild  I am so use to uploading my own packages that I have made from scratch that I do not know how to tell debuild not to include everything on upload, Example I always have ran  debuild -S -sa    what do I run to tell it that they source code is already uploaded and there is no reason to upload source code when running dput on the changes file
<tumbleweed> bobweaver: we (Ubuntu) care about debian, so please don't write off debian too easily
<tumbleweed> as I didn't see this myself, I have no idea about the specifics, but yes, happy to chat about it at UDS
<bobweaver> tumbleweed,  I will not tumbleweed  I also care about debian a bunch and use it all the time and Love the freedoom that it gives , But I just had a hard time with the community
<bobweaver> that is all
<bobweaver> it happens you know
<tumbleweed> of course
<tumbleweed> bobweaver: as to your debuild question: -sa means include the orig tarball even if it doesn't think it needs to
<bobweaver> I am also sure that they where not to impressed by me asking a bunch of question ;)
<tumbleweed> usually you don't need to specifiy -sd or -sa, it should get it right
<tumbleweed> bobweaver: being patient, respectful of others' time, and having a thick skin - all usually helps
<bobweaver> but you are right I am not going to let a couple bad eggs ruin my omelet . maybe they where having a bad day, we all do
 * bobweaver goes to medical cabinet and gets out vit B (think skin) 
<bobweaver> thick *
<bobweaver> tumbleweed,  PM ? about meetup at UDS
<tumbleweed> bobweaver: sure
<cjwatson> bobweaver: #debian IRC is often not desperately representative of Debian.  It works much more by e-mail.
<bobweaver> Thanks cjwatson  !
<bobweaver> I will keep that in mind for the future
<bobweaver> question: under the line Uploaders: in the debian dir can I have 2 people? example  Uploaders: Jose Doe <josedoe@email.com>, Jose Moe <josemoe@email>
<bobweaver> in the control file sorry
<cjwatson> Yes.  http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s-f-Uploaders
<bobweaver> cjwatson, I was just reading that and was wondering what folded means ? in the line "The Uploaders field in debian/control can be folded."
<cjwatson> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s-controlsyntax defines that.
<bobweaver> I see thanks again
<bobweaver> I am sorry to ask another question but I can not seem to get this control file right. error is line 37: first block lacks a source field   Here is the control file http://paste.ubuntu.com/1228959/
<bobweaver> thanks again for your time
<jtaylor> bobweaver: why not use the existing package as a starting point?
<jtaylor> bobweaver: in that control file you are mixing source and binary package
<bobweaver> you mean that the stanza is not correct and there needs to be two ? I tried that like this http://paste.ubuntu.com/1228973/ but it errors out on line 13 because of the white space
<bobweaver> I m sorry I dont not follow
<jtaylor> the first line should be Source:
<jtaylor> and installed-size is no key
<jtaylor> neither is Version
<jtaylor> apt-get source playonlinux for a working control
<bobweaver> Oh my I see what you are saying I am dumb sometimes line one neds to be Source not package
<bobweaver> Sweet it worked
<bobweaver> In the ppa ! https://launchpad.net/~josephjamesmills/+archive/beta
<bobweaver> Hello there as some of you know I was playing with play on linux and updating the version. Well I am done now. And Fixed http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=687207    Now  I am wondering how to upload to debian so it will make its way to Ubuntu ?
<ubottu> Debian bug 687207 in playonlinux "playonlinux: New version available" [Wishlist,Open]
<cjwatson> bobweaver: You can't - you offer a patch to the Debian maintainers and they decide whether to accept it
<cjwatson> bobweaver: However I noticed that you appeared to have repackaged playonlinux from scratch
<cjwatson> That's not good
<bobweaver> Yeah because the source upstream had changed
<cjwatson> That's not a reason to repackage from scratch
<bobweaver> I sould make it with the upstream tar ball ?
<cjwatson> When you update a Debian (or Ubuntu) package to a new upstream version, you don't start from scratch and run dh_make against the upstream tarball
<cjwatson> You update the existing packaging
<cjwatson> You appear to have taken things like the changelog but thrown away most of the rest of the packaging
<cjwatson> I'd actually suggest just leaving it to the Debian games team, TBH, as they likely know what they're doing here - they just said in the bug that they didn't want to bother with it until after wheezy's released
<cjwatson> Ah, it looks like upstream has their own partial debian/ directory now, or something
<cjwatson> We generally ignore those
<bobweaver> cjwatson,  could you point me to a tutorial for that ? I know that it is a large subject . I guess what I am missing is . do I go to Git and grab upstream or apt-get source POL  then run a diff on that tarball and change the files and the debian stuff ?  Yeah I think that must of the stuff that was in the debian/*
<cjwatson> Er, in general it is a creative task that involves knowing the package
<bobweaver> was old and not needed
<cjwatson> Things like uscan can help with the basics but the details of revision control and the like totally depend on the package and its maintainers
<cjwatson> I don't have a tutorial for you
#ubuntu-motu 2012-09-27
<dholbach> good morning
<blackz> hi!
<MohamedAlaa98> Can please someone explain me the error in this build? : https://launchpadlibrarian.net/117498874/buildlog_ubuntu-quantal-i386.gtk-nodoka-engine_0.7.5-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<tumbleweed> blackz: been a while
<tumbleweed> MohamedAlaa98: looks like it was #including gtimer.h rather than glib.h
<MohamedAlaa98> tumbleweed: I don't know but the build done succesfully on precise
<blackz> tumbleweed: heh yeah..
<MohamedAlaa98> tumbleweed: https://launchpad.net/~m-alaa8/+archive/ppa/+build/3804692
<MohamedAlaa98> any ideas?
<tumbleweed> MohamedAlaa98: something changed in gtk/glib?
<MohamedAlaa98> tumbleweed: maybe the version in precise differs from quantal
<MohamedAlaa98> tumbleweed: I don't know I came here for help
<tumbleweed> I'd be very suprised if it didn't
<geser> we had this same change also in precise but it was backed out again because it caused to much FTBFS and redone for quantal again
<tumbleweed> there are quite a lot still to be fixed: http://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/bts-usertags.cgi?tag=glib-single-include&user=pkg-gnome-maintainers%40lists.alioth.debian.org
<MohamedAlaa98> that means it's a bug in nodoka engine itself?
<geser> yes
<geser> glib upstream decided that only glib.h should be included and nodoka-engine didn't adapt to it yet
<MohamedAlaa98> Ok, Thank you very much geser, tumbleweed :)
<Laney> it would be good to do some build log analysis from the rebuild test and file tagged bugs on this
<Laney> quite a worthwhile bug fixing initiative
<AnAnt> Hello, B2 should be released tonight ?
<tumbleweed> yes
<xnox> AnAnt: tonight for you, tomorrow morning for some.
<xnox> 48 hours in a day after all =)
<highvoltage> there's something very wrong in the tone of the ubuntu coc 2 draft.
<highvoltage> it almost feels advarsarial or passive aggressive somehow, I can't pin the right word for it
<MohamedAlaa98> tumbleweed: I'm a beginer here :) I want start with package upgrading from upstream :) can you please give me a simple work to do? and a little advice :) thank you :)
<tumbleweed> MohamedAlaa98: now is not a useful time to be doing that
<tumbleweed> we are releasing beta 2 today. We really aren't going around looking for things to update
<MohamedAlaa98> Hmmm, what can I do now?
<tumbleweed> highvoltage: yeah, I'm feeling that attitude from sabdfl in general, atm
<tumbleweed> MohamedAlaa98: if you're a beginner, the most useful thing for you to do is learn some packaging skills. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/BugFixingInitiative
<tumbleweed> MohamedAlaa98: if you want to do something useful: find a neglected buggy package, and see if we can do something about it
<highvoltage> tumbleweed: I've seen that for a long time so I guess it's something that I've accepted, but I liked the overall simplicity and positiveness of the old CoC, it set a stern and positive tone. the new one seems like a big regression. I can see how someone new to the project can read that and think "hmm, maybe this isn't for me"
<tumbleweed> highvoltage: it certainly felt like something we should aspire to, in the past
 * tumbleweed isn't finding this draft particularly adversarial, though (but still reading it)
<MohamedAlaa98> tumbleweed: Ok :) thanks a lot
<freeflying> dholbach: ping
<highvoltage> tumbleweed: yeah that might have not been the right word, I'll have to think about it carefully before responsding
<tumbleweed> highvoltage: I suspect it's at least partially due to the shortening of teh CoC
<AnAnt> xnox: thanks
<highvoltage> tumbleweed: ah the new one seemed quite longer to me
<tumbleweed> highvoltage: I haven't diffed it for this revision. But in general, v2 added the leadership stuff, and removed cruft
<dholbach> freeflying, pong
<freeflying> dholbach: figured it out, thanks :)
<dholbach> alright :)
<geser> MohamedAlaa98: do you intent to try to fix the gtk-nodoka-engine FTBFS? I see that you reported a bug about it
<MohamedAlaa98> geser: I just reported the bug and let them handle it
<MohamedAlaa98> How can I fix it?
<geser> in short: grab the source package, fix it (the fix is trivial), create a debdiff, attach it to your bug, add it to the sponsoring queue
<Laney> geser: do you have a list?
 * micahg hopes we don't end up with >1k build failures since it's so late in the cycle
<MohamedAlaa98> hmm ok I'll try to fix it
<geser> Laney: no, I just go through the FTBFS page for the rebuild and check for easy (time-wise) fixes
<Laney> ok
<micahg> current projections based on src pkg #s would be around 400
<Laney> yeah, ideally we'd have had one earlier in the cycle
<Laney> DIF?
<micahg> AIUI we should've had 2 already :(
<Laney> I remember discussing it in a session but not what was decided
<geser> I try to get the quick fixes done first (better time usage) and focus on the time-consuming later (if I have available time left)
<micahg> DIF or FF were the test points for the first round mention, neither happened
<ogra_> micahg, did that planning take a DC move into account ?
<micahg> ogra_: DIF would've been fine as it was long before the DC move
<ogra_> oh, yeah
<geser> MohamedAlaa98: if you have any questions or get stuck, just ask here
<micahg> but it seems like a lot of the failures are gcc 4.7 and glib includes
<micahg> at least the ones I've peeked at
<Laney> that was an explicit reason for putting the glib include error back early in the cycle
<Laney> we'd find them early and then be able to fix them, since the fix is so trivial
<micahg> right, so that they would be fixed, but without a test rebuild they were blissfully forgotten about
<Laney> sadly do
<Laney> so
<Laney> I suppose we could revert that and try again for R :-/
<geser> do you think we will have a better success then?
<Laney> depends if the effort is invested
<Laney> we can leave it for a little while yet, see how we do now
<ogra_> aarch64 might land in R, that would require a full archive rebuild in any case
<geser> we would need an early test rebuild done to catch those but it's usually not done with the archive in flux due to auto-syncs (enough FTBFS from it)
<ogra_> (no idea about the timeline here, just guessing)
<cjwatson> I've got a month of +1 maintenance yet to use to attack these :)
 * micahg hopefully has a month of +1 as well
<cjwatson> ogra_: It wouldn't require rebuilding anything on existing architectures, surely
<cjwatson> micahg: Oh good
<geser> is there a quick switch to not have dch put UNRELEASED into the changelog or to have pass -D quantal everytime?
<ogra_> cjwatson, well, but it would make sense to do it on all arches if we do it for aarch64 anyway
<cjwatson> I vaguely remember that being controlled by DEBCHANGE_RELEASE_HEURISTIC
<cjwatson> ogra_: We never have before for new ports
<cjwatson> And a full rebuild is a big mirror hit
<ogra_> just saying its an opportunity to do it in one go
 * Laney never remembers what the release heuristics do
<geser> ogra_: do you volunteer to do a rebuild upload of every package for it?
<cjwatson> That isn't an opportunity, it's a risk :-)
<obounaim> Please I need sponsoring here can any body review my merge proposal?
<Laney> obounaim: is it really urgent?
<Laney> if not, as long as it appears in http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/index.html it'll get looked at :-)
 * Laney blinks at the swathe of misc:Depends branches there
<obounaim> Laney, no it is not urgent but It has a while in there
<Laney> ah, well I see them. Somebody will hopefully get to them soon
<obounaim> Laney, yes hopefully
<Laney> hmm, I should get on the pilot schedule really
<Laney> dholbach: ^ ;-)
<dholbach> laney: with pleasure
<TheLordOfTime> how can i force apt-get to install dependencies?
<xnox> Laney: yeah. But they are good to teach about packaging. E.g. mispelled (LP: #) or forgotten patches (direct modifications) or not updated maintainer field.
<TheLordOfTime> its not installing the openjdk-6-jre dependencies, so...
<Laney> xnox: I understand the idea.
<TheLordOfTime> is there an argument i can provide to *force* dependency resolution?
<dholbach> laney: added yourself - feel free to move it to some other day if that suits you better
<Laney> thanking you
<micahg> thelordOfTime: umm, there's -f, but that won't work if there's a real problem
<TheLordOfTime> micahg:  lemme pastebin the errors, perhaps there's something i'm missing...
<TheLordOfTime> or something dreadfully wrong with Precise
<TheLordOfTime> micahg:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/1230639/  <-- the errors i'm getting
<TheLordOfTime> there's also a pinning error according to apt, but i can't find it  :/
<TheLordOfTime> and it always shows up.
<micahg> apt-cache policy | grep ^0 ?
<TheLordOfTime> oh i see where it is
<TheLordOfTime> one moment
<micahg> thelordOfTime: you can use -o Debug::pkgProblemResolver=true to see what it causing the issue
<TheLordOfTime> micahg:  well, the apt pinning issue is unknown, its still showing up, and the grepped line from your command is not useful, just says this: W: No priority (or zero) specified for pin
<micahg> well, you can look over apt-cache policy to see if anything is unusua;
<TheLordOfTime> and now i'm getting update manager crashes because the "package system is broken"
<TheLordOfTime> what hell is happening here...?
<TheLordOfTime> ...
<TheLordOfTime> oh wait a sec
<MohamedAlaa98> Hello guys :) I've a notice
<MohamedAlaa98> in this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/PackageUpdate
<TheLordOfTime> well, that was... different...
<TheLordOfTime> micahg:  apparently someone tried to install a package here that broke everything
<TheLordOfTime> and apt was whining because on this system, there were apt pins for each repo (main, -updates, -security, etc.)
<TheLordOfTime> *shrugs*
<MohamedAlaa98> you forgot to add launchpad building part :)
<TheLordOfTime> removing the apt pinning prefs fixed that issue, and purging the attempted-to-install package fixed that issue
<TheLordOfTime> time for sourcebuilds :P
<MohamedAlaa98> sorry for interrupting
<TheLordOfTime> no problem, was just mostly me griping about apt not working and something related to apt not resolving dependencies
<TheLordOfTime> carry on, dude :)
<MohamedAlaa98> :D
<MohamedAlaa98> did you realize what i said?
<MohamedAlaa98> hello?
 * dholbach hugs laney
 * dholbach hugs laney
 * dholbach hugs laney
 * dholbach hugs laney
 * dholbach hugs laney
 * MohamedAlaa98 hugs laney too :)
<Laney> :-)
 * Laney hugs dholbach 
<ogra_> was that a hug for every donated dollar ?
 * MohamedAlaa98 is awaiting for anyone to respond him
<Laney> is it just me that can't boot recent dailies in vbox?
<Laney> 5 minutes to get a grub selection, 5 more minutes to see plymouth, 5 minutes later that goes away to show me the console with loads of service stopping, then it goes black
<Laney> 12.04.1 works well
<MohamedAlaa98> sorry for disconnecting
<MohamedAlaa98> I've done a fix, but I can't understad this step: http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/fixing-a-bug-example.html#getting-the-fix-included any ideas?
<MohamedAlaa98> tumbleweed
<MohamedAlaa98> sorrfor disconnecting
<MohamedAlaa98> *sorry for
<MohamedAlaa98> any ideas?
<tumbleweed> MohamedAlaa98: you haven't said what the problem is
<MohamedAlaa98> oh, connection problems
<MohamedAlaa98> I've done a fix, but I can't understad this step: http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/fixing-a-bug-example.html#getting-the-fix-included what should I do?
<tumbleweed> you haven't said what you don't understand
<tumbleweed> also, please don't highlite me if you are just looking for someone to ansewr a question
<MohamedAlaa98> ok, sorry
<MohamedAlaa98> I can't understand how to get fix included
<mitya57> MohamedAlaa98: that section is mostly for submitting the patch to debian/upstream
<tumbleweed> MohamedAlaa98: what did you fix?
<mitya57> MohamedAlaa98: Debian has already a bug report: http://bugs.debian.org/665549
<ubottu> Debian bug 665549 in src:gtk-nodoka-engine "gtk-nodoka-engine: Including individual glib headers no longer supported" [Important,Open]
<mitya57> you can submit the patch there
<MohamedAlaa98> homepage missing staff
<mitya57> ah, sorry, you are talking about another thing
<tumbleweed> MohamedAlaa98: the missing homepage bugs listed on that wiki page are ubuntu-only packages
<MohamedAlaa98> mitya57 np :)
<tumbleweed> they aren't in debian
<MohamedAlaa98> yes i know :)
<tumbleweed> so, follow the link to the ubuntu sponsoring process
<MohamedAlaa98> okay
<MohamedAlaa98> oops there's a added homepage in quantal https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/z3c.pt
<MohamedAlaa98> should I push my fix?
<tumbleweed> if it's already done, I don't see any point
<MohamedAlaa98> :( but you haven't marked it fixed here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/BugFixingInitiative
<tumbleweed> it's not *me* who hasn't marked it there :)
<tumbleweed> obounaim: ^^
 * MohamedAlaa98 want's to cry :(
<tumbleweed> well, now you know what to do :)
<obounaim> MohamedAlaa98, refresh your browser.
<MohamedAlaa98_> browser?
<MohamedAlaa98_> what do you mean?
<obounaim> MohamedAlaa98, I have marked them as fix proposed
<obounaim> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/BugFixingInitiative
<MohamedAlaa98> obounaim: can you please repost what you said?
<MohamedAlaa98> obounaim: sorry network problems.
<obounaim> MohamedAlaa98, Concerning the bugs listed in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/BugFixingInitiative that I have fixed they are now marked as fix proposed
<MohamedAlaa98> obounaim: ok :)
<MohamedAlaa98> obounaim: it's my mistake I should review all sections of a package before doing something
<tumbleweed> MohamedAlaa98: I think it's just bad luck (and something that will happen when everyone works from the top of a list)
<MohamedAlaa98> :D
<MohamedAlaa98> tumbleweed: obounaim hasn't let anythng in this page t fix
<MohamedAlaa98> *to
<MohamedAlaa98> I mean No homepage field bugs
<MohamedAlaa98> where I can find more?
<MohamedAlaa98> *can i
<jtaylor> MohamedAlaa98: you can check this list for useful syncs: http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/multidistrotools/universe.html#outdatedinB
<MohamedAlaa98> jtaylor: ok, thanks
#ubuntu-motu 2012-09-28
<dholbach> good morning
<micahg> dholbach: sponsorship queue appears to be out of control (I'm piloting next week a little early due to final freeze and whatnot)
 * micahg wonders why he's not listed as touching stuff in the past 2 weeks, will have to rectify that later
<micahg> dholbach: oh, and good morning :)
<dholbach> hi micahg
<dholbach> it is out of control
<dholbach> I'll write to the mailing lists later
<dholbach> EVERYBODY: PLEASE HELP OUT SPONSORING!
<iulian> Morning dholbach, micahg.
 * iulian should probably do some sponsoring too.
<dholbach> hi iulian
<dholbach> yes please :)
<micahg> hi iulian :)
 * iulian hasn't done that in a while. :(
<micahg> iulian: 2012-09-06 isn't that bad
<micahg> although that was the only one this year according to the sponsorship miner :P
<iulian> Hey! Don't spy on me!
<iulian> "Neat" tools these days...
<micahg> iulian: are you sure you want that coffee so close to your machine?
<micahg> :D
<iulian> Heh. :)
<obounaim> Hello everybody
<obounaim> How to fix inconsistencies when merging from Debian.
<Laney> example?
<geser> which inconsistencies?
<obounaim> patches inconsistencies
<obounaim> Ok, I am doing a merge from Debian for the qpid-cpp package
<obounaim> when I run "bzr bd -- -S" I get an error "bzr: ERROR: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/home/oussama/packaging/qpid-cpp/.pc/CVE-2012-2145.patch/src/CMakeLists.txt'"
<ubottu> ** RESERVED ** This candidate has been reserved by an organization or individual that will use it when announcing a new security problem.  When the candidate has been publicized, the details for this candidate will be provided. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2012-2145)
<obounaim> any idea how to fix this problem
<geser> is it normal that syncpackage (probaly more like python-keyring) asks everytime for a new password when I use it?
<geser> in a chroot if it's important
<obounaim> quilt push -av solved my issue
 * iulian is not sure what to do with those minor fixes from the unapproved queue after reading pitti's email.
<ricotz> debfx, hello :), is there a reason that there is no update for virtualbox to 4.1.22 or even 4.2?
<Laney> iulian: if someone's uploaded you might as well accept
<ricotz> Laney, hi
<Laney> howdy partner
<iulian> Laney: OK.
<ricotz> Laney, :) do you like to that a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libbluray/+bug/1053951 and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libaacs/+bug/1053949
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1053951 in libbluray (Ubuntu) "Sync libbluray 1:0.2.3-1 (universe) from Debian experimental (main)" [Undecided,New]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1053949 in libaacs (Ubuntu) "Sync libaacs 0.5.0-2 (universe) from Debian experimental (main)" [Undecided,New]
<Laney> ricotz: you miss explaining /why/ the syncs are needed
<Laney> upstream changes would also be good
<Laney> ah, that's in changelog
<Laney> (bonus points for that)
<ricotz> Laney, yeah, there are quite some libbluray fixes, the libaacs includes an unmentioned memleak fix :\
<Laney> would be good to put that in the report
<Laney> I'll look at them in a minute
<ricotz> Laney, thank you
<geser> hmm, does bug #1054979 and bug #1054983 need a FFe?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1054979 in intel-microcode (Ubuntu) "Sync intel-microcode 1.20120606.6 (multiverse) from Debian unstable (non-free)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1054979
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1054983 in microcode.ctl (Ubuntu) "Sync microcode.ctl 1.18~0+nmu2 (multiverse) from Debian unstable (contrib)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1054983
<Laney> iulian: ^ care to look?
<iulian> Laney: Already looking.
<Laney> â¥
<xnox> iulian: Laney: my opinion intrusive and needs testing.
<iulian> geser: Looks like they do. There are definitely more fixes than features so I think it's worth getting them in. Do you know if iucode-tool is affected by this?
 * iulian has to go to uni.
<geser> iulian: no idea. but as quantal has the same version of iucode-tools like Debian testing and unstable, it's either already is or not (the description already mentions that it can work with the intel-microcode package)
<iulian> geser: Please subscribe ubuntu-release and I will review them properly when I get home in the evening.
<iulian> Great, thanks.
<geser> done
<geser> (2 packages from the sponsoring done (sort of))
<iulian> Brilliant, got to go now. Ta-ta.
<iulian> tumbleweed: I was reviewing ddtp-translations in the queue and I've noticed that the 'native = True' change hasn't been documented in the changelog. Could you please take a look at it?
<tumbleweed> iulian: more simply, that file shouldn't have been in the upload
<obounaim> didrocks, thanks for your sponsoring.
<didrocks> obounaim: yw :)
 * didrocks has the queue theorically down to 97 now
<didrocks> (started at 128)
<obounaim> nice work
<didrocks> thanks, thanks for your patches! :)
<Laney> ricotz: both synced, ta
<Laney> ah, someone else beat me to libbluray
<Laney> rejected my one, accepting the other
<ricotz> Laney, thanks :)
<didrocks> Laney: ricotz: does it work?
<didrocks> I'm too old to have bluerays I guess :)
<didrocks> but just curious
<Laney> don't know, I can't play them :(
<ricotz> didrocks, Laney, yes it works
<ricotz> bd+ is a problem though
<Laney> I don't even have a DVD player at the minute
<Laney> #firstworldproblems
<didrocks> interesting :)
<didrocks> Laney: oh, you are worse than I am!
<ricotz> Laney, hehe
<Laney> I'm modern and use netflix directly from my TV :P
 * xnox doesn't have a TV
 * xnox reads books on kindle & listen to internet radio
<Laney> TV's got some alright stuff if you know where to look
<xnox> true
<obounaim> I am trying to do a merge from Debian everything is fine but when using "bzr lp-propose" I get the following error "Most recent Debian version: MISSING"
<maxb> That sounds more like an informational message than an error to me
<soniah> I've got a question about bzr branching, from http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/udd-getting-the-source.html#branching
<soniah> the webpage gives an example:
<soniah> bzr init-repo tomboy ; cd tomboy ; bzr branch ubuntu:tomboy tomboy.dev
<soniah> in this case would I be doing my modifications in tomboy.dev?
<xnox> soniah: you created a local personal copy of the tomboy packaging branch in the directory tomboy.dev.
<xnox> soniah: you do modifications in the directory, in your case tomboy.dev
<soniah> thanks @xnox
<soniah> I'm used to git, getting my head around bzr
<soniah> once I've made my edits and done commits, I'd then push to launchpad?
<Laney> oho
<Laney> I have a candidate for pre-release backports
<Laney> debian_debs_which_install_and_work_fine_on_ubuntu_so_i_dont_have_to_build_twice++
<Zhenech> Laney, you really should just use debian :)
<Laney> heh
<Laney> I'll repurpose this PC into a sid machine when I upgrade
<micahg> dholbach: as I commented on the merge proposal for  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/quantal/+source/brother-lpr-drivers-common/1.0.0-4-0ubuntu3, the solution is just wrong for multiarch regardless if it builds or not
<dholbach> micahg, slangasek used a similar tactic for one of the other brother* packages, which is why I thought it was good enough and suggested it to the submitter (Chris I think it was)
<micahg> orly?  hrm, ok then
<Laney> ScottK: can you do the bug mail dance here please? https://bugs.launchpad.net/quantal-backports/+subscriptions
<ScottK> Laney: How's that?
<Laney> Looks like it could be right, thanks
<slangasek> dholbach: hmm, what did I do now? :)
<dholbach> nothing bad
<slangasek> oh, I'm sure what I did was bad
<dholbach> I didn't think I would get pulled into one of those roleplaying conversations towards the end of my day
<dholbach> ... but if you insist!
<dholbach> slangasek, you've been very very bad
 * dholbach looks for spanking devices
<slangasek> haha
<Laney> oh god
<Laney> /query!
<dholbach> I referred to http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/quantal/brother-lpr-drivers-extra/quantal/revision/7 earlier
<MohamedAlaa98_> Hello :)
<MohamedAlaa98_> about this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk-nodoka-engine/+bug/1057456
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1057456 in gtk-nodoka-engine (Ubuntu) "gtk-nodoka-engine_0.7.5 failed to build on quantal" [Undecided,New]
<MohamedAlaa98_> I got the fix, But where should I apply it?
<micahg> MohamedAlaa98_: you can bundle it with the 0.7.5 update as a patch
<MohamedAlaa98> deop
<MohamedAlaa98> geser: any ideas?
<micahg> MohamedAlaa98_ you can bundle it with the 0.7.5 update as a patch
<MohamedAlaa98> micahg: where
<MohamedAlaa98> ?
<micahg> wherever you proposed the 0.7.5 update
<micahg> the patch goes in debian/patches
<micahg> (assuming it has a patch system)
<MohamedAlaa98> :/ I was trying to build a package https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk-nodoka-engine/+bug/803007
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 803007 in Baltix "Update Nodoka theme package to new upstream release 0.7.5 (adds GTK3/GNOME3 support)" [Undecided,New]
<MohamedAlaa98> but I faced this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk-nodoka-engine/+bug/1057456
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1057456 in gtk-nodoka-engine (Ubuntu) "gtk-nodoka-engine_0.7.5 failed to build on quantal" [Undecided,New]
<MohamedAlaa98> micahg: ok, sorry I got it :D
<MohamedAlaa98> micahg: excuse me I'm a beginner :D
<Laney> hmm
<Laney> do backports never announce to -changes?
<Laney> wait, I've had this discussion before
<Laney> I think it resulted in this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/873451
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 873451 in Launchpad itself "announce backports uploads *somewhere*" [Low,Triaged]
<micahg> Laney: correct, they don't go to -changes
<Laney> it came back to me
<Laney> you can read my four lines above as an internal dialogue
<Laney> micahg: did you see that I uploaded a pre-release backport earlier?
<micahg> Laney: yes, how did that go?
<Laney> seems to have worked
<Laney>      1.4-1~ubuntu12.10 0
<Laney>         100 http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ quantal-backports/universe amd64 Packages
<Laney> ajmitch: ^^^
#ubuntu-motu 2012-09-29
<jtaylor> can I query who moved something from main to universe?
<jtaylor> given the changelog gmm is obsolete in universe as we have getfem++
<jtaylor> but instead of removing it it was just dumped on us it seems
<cjwatson> err, we don't generally apply that much thought
<cjwatson> if component-mismatches says to move it and there are no reverse deps in main, we move it, pretty much
<cjwatson> we don't spend time seeing whether it should be removed first
<jtaylor> k
<cjwatson> I don't believe there's any audit trail of override changes except for the date; at any rate, back in January there was no way for Launchpad to know who did the move
<jtaylor> I just wanted to check if there might have been reason for why it still exists before I file for removal
<cjwatson> (because at that point removals were done from a shared account rather than over the API)
<cjwatson> but I think it's still true that there's no audit trail of that
<cjwatson> er s/removals/override changes/
<jtaylor> why do we have two glade sources?
<jtaylor> 3.8 and 3.14
<shadeslayer> hm, question, when upstream uses autotools, should they release a tarball after running autogen.sh  or is autogen.sh run during the build?
<shadeslayer> *supposed to be run during the build
<jtaylor> normally autogen or autoreconf is run by upstream
<jtaylor> and the output put into the tarballs
<jtaylor> then the user does not need autofoo installed to build
<shadeslayer> hm .. ok, then upstream's tarball is most certainly broken
<jtaylor> for packaging its often wise to run autoreconf during build
<jtaylor> dh-autoreconf helps with that
<shadeslayer> yeah, I was already looking at that :)
<shadeslayer> it's just that upstream released a tarball withour running autogen.sh
<shadeslayer> so I'll have to repack it
<jtaylor> repack?
<jtaylor> running autogen should be enough for the package
<shadeslayer> okay
<jtaylor> unless of course the tarball does not have the autotools files in it
<jtaylor> which makes the source tarball utterly useless
<shadeslayer> autotools files?
<jtaylor> configure.ac Makefile.am etc
<shadeslayer> ah, that it does have
<shadeslayer> the only issue is that upstream forgot to run autogen.sh
 * shadeslayer is from the CMake world
<shadeslayer> I've only used autotools extensively once, and that too worked in the first go, so don't have alot of experience ;)
<shadeslayer> jtaylor: btw when you said running autogen should be enough for the package, did you mean I should run autogen.sh inside the build using debian/rules ?
<jtaylor> autogen.sh normally just does autreconf + some flags
<jtaylor> dh-autoreconf does that too
<jtaylor> so with dh-7 rules its just --with autoreconf
<shadeslayer> actually, this autogen.sh has some other stuff as well
<shadeslayer> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1249416/
<jtaylor> dh-autoreconf can also execute a script
<shadeslayer> ah ok
<jtaylor> override_dh_autoreconf: dh_autoreconf -- ./autogen.sh
<shadeslayer> right :)
<shadeslayer> thanks :)
<shadeslayer> oh whee .. stupid autogen.sh also runs configure, and the only way to fix it is to patch it out
<jtaylor> don'T use autogen then
<jtaylor> autoreconf should be enough in most cases
<shadeslayer> actually, I need intltoolize --automake --copy --force || exit 1
<shadeslayer> for translations
<shadeslayer> I guess I could just run all of the commands manually via rules and skip configure
<jtaylor> autoreconf should include that, but I have to check
<shadeslayer> doesn't I think
<jtaylor> then the configure.ac should be buggy
<jtaylor> hm no it does not seem included
<shadeslayer> jtaylor: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1249498/ < does that look sane?
<jtaylor> the exit 1 is unnecessary
<jtaylor> else its fine
<jtaylor> please add a newline between the targets
<jtaylor> makes it more readable
<shadeslayer> yeah, fixed that locally :)
<cjwatson> shadeslayer: dh_autoconfigure -> dh_auto_configure in the diff above
<cjwatson> and really that override_dh_autoreconf is busted, because it won't allow dh-autoreconf to keep track of changed files correctly
<cjwatson> I would suggest writing a script called something like debian/autogen with the commands you need, and then dh_autoreconf -- debian/autogen
<cjwatson> or
<cjwatson> autogen:
<cjwatson>         autoreconf -fi
<cjwatson>         glib-gettextize --copy --force
<cjwatson>         intltoolize --automake --copy --force
<cjwatson> and then 'dh_autoreconf -- debian/rules autogen
<cjwatson> '
<cjwatson> which BTW are the two suggestions for this situation in dh-autoreconf(1)
<cjwatson> then you shouldn't need the override_dh_clean
<shadeslayer> oh hmm
<shadeslayer> cjwatson: thanks for the suggestions, I'll fix it :)
<ESphynx> awesome Ecere has been acceptd into Debian Experimental =) thanks everyone
#ubuntu-motu 2012-09-30
<ESphynx> Sync sync sync https://bugs.launchpad.net/ecere/+bug/394998 pretty please =) Quantal! :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 394998 in Ubuntu "Please sync ecere-sdk 0.44.01-1 from Debian Experimental" [Wishlist,In progress]
<jbicha> ESphynx: you'll need to apply for a feature freeze exception since it's late in the release cycle
<jbicha> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess#FeatureFreeze_for_new_packages
<xnox> hmm...
<xnox> it will need a sync in either case cause it's in the experimental and since the archive is frozen I can sponsor this into ubuntu as I did into debian and then let the release team decide =)
<ESphynx> jbicha: Should I still apply for a feature freeze exception? :)
<ESphynx> thanks again xnox :)
<jbicha> ESphynx: I don't know, it got accepted from the unapproved queue, but not the new queue
<ESphynx> what should I do then :P
<xnox> ESphynx: you should state the FFe reasons in the bug report.
<xnox> as it is an FFe.
<xnox> regardless of which queues it's stuck in.....
<ESphynx> so I should just post a comment saying 'Ecere is Awesome, please sync into Quantal?' ?
<xnox> ESphynx: sure, why not =)
<ESphynx> xnox: seriously, what's your recommendatino? :)
<ESphynx> tumbleweed: hey man you around? :) You got that FFe magic with you? :)
<ESphynx> there :)
<micahg> jbicha: new sources don't hit unapproved, they hit NEW regardless of freeze AIUI
<micahg> xnox: usually, we don't sync stuff into NEW without the FFe to avoid wasting the AAs tim
<micahg> *time
<ESphynx> how do we get that FFe? :P
<micahg> and there's always backports (which would show up in software center just the same AIUI)
<micahg> TBH, I'd rather have it in backports than in the release pocket with 3 weeks to go, but I think I'm alone in this opinion (and IANA release team member)
<ESphynx> but backport doesn't have the Gold feeling as much as making it into Quantal :P
<ESphynx> The SDK is so small it might just fill the annoying free 5mb onto CD1 :P
<micahg> with the backport, you can also keep updating it (as long as you install/run test it)
<ESphynx> (Ok I'm pushing it :P)
<ESphynx> Is that different from the regular Updates?
<micahg> you can do the backport afterwards anyways, but then people have to choose the initial jump to backports if they have the release version installed
<micahg> ESphynx: well, backports allow feature updates, regular updates pocket usually doesn't
<micahg> regardless, it would go into the release pocket for R
<ESphynx> right
<jbicha> micahg: quantal-backports isn't open yet, is it?
<Rhonda> hmm, how to block wesnoth-1.11 from getting synced?  File a bugreport against what specific?
<jtaylor> Rhonda: you want no autosync?
<jtaylor> that is off until R opens
<Rhonda> I don't want any sync at all, it's not a package targetted for a release.
<jtaylor> there is a sync blacklist maintained by archive admins
<geser> trying to remember how the sync blacklist now works
<Rhonda> Right, but it shouldn't get synced after R opens neither. :)
<geser> if it's on that sync blacklist it won't get synced before the entry gets removed first
<Rhonda> It just got accepted into Debian unstable, so it can't be on that list yet. ;)
<jtaylor> if its not suitable for release why is it in unstable and not experimental?
<Rhonda> Because it gets more testing that way.
<jtaylor> well R will be only for the brave too
<Rhonda> It will eventually turn into wesnoth-1.12.
<jtaylor> will it not stabilize in 6 month?
<Rhonda> Right, but 1.12 won't be out before R gets into release. :)
<jtaylor> k
<geser> Rhonda: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-archive/+junk/sync-blacklist; branch, patch, propose-merge
<Rhonda> yay, working on my rusty bizarre knowledge ;)
<geser> (I hope that the right process to get entries into that file)
<jtaylor> does someone know why we have two glades in quantal?
<jtaylor> 3.14 and 3.8?
<jtaylor> can we remove 3.8? it ftbs (with a simple fix)
<geser> what are the source package names?
<jtaylor> glade and glade-3
<jtaylor> the latter is old and in universe
<jtaylor> the former main
<jtaylor> looks to my like it was forgotten to remove glade-3 when glade3 went in main
<jtaylor> or do you need 3.8 for gtk2?
<geser> both packages are also in Debian
<geser> is there something depending/build-depeding on it?
<jtaylor> yes
<jtaylor> xfce
<jtaylor> I'll then just fix the ftbs
<jtaylor> Rhonda: the next wesnoth will get a new source package?
<Rhonda> Yes, the reason being that people can install 1.10 side-by-side with 1.12.
<Rhonda> Users complained that they can't finish their started campaigns after the upgrade.  The savegames are compatible, but the campaigns change between stable releases, mainly for balancing factors, and even units might change.
<geser> Rhonda: just got told by cjwatson in #ubuntu-devel that you should file a bug to get wesnoth-1.11 added to the sync-blacklist and subscribe ubuntu-archive
<Rhonda> So the approach was to be able to install the different stable versions side-by-side, and thus also the development release for those who want to give it a test early on.
<Rhonda> geser: bug against what?  :)
<cjwatson> doesn't matter
<cjwatson> wesnoth-1.11, conventionally
<cjwatson> but we work off our +subscribedbugs list so the target is irrelevant
<cjwatson> don't bother proposing a branch for the sync-blacklist or whatever; that's a waste of effort
<cjwatson> and merge proposals won't work there anyway because it's a +junk branch
<Rhonda> done. :)
<jtaylor> someone familiar with the tiff transition?
<jtaylor> tiff-dev is gone, now we should use libtiff5-dev?
<jtaylor> why is that? I though the recommendation is the opposite
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: libtiff5-dev provides libtiff-dev
<jtaylor> I don't understand this failure https://launchpadlibrarian.net/117813129/buildlog_ubuntu-quantal-i386.love_0.8.0-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<cjwatson> jtaylor: In general you should just use libtiff-dev - it only has one provider
<cjwatson> jtaylor: That kind of failure generally means that something in the (build-)dependency set conflicts
<cjwatson> jtaylor: love has an explicit build-dep on libtiff4-dev, which won't work.  Try s/libtiff4-dev/libtiff-dev/ there
<jtaylor> makes sense, thanks
<bobweaver> Hello there I have been trying to package up some C++ work for the last day and can not get it to package correctly. all dependency's are fine debian file is good. It is cmake that I am having trouble with
<JontheEchidna> bobweaver: anything in particular?
<bobweaver> do I do  cmake . -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX:PATH=/usr
<JontheEchidna> what does your rules file look like?
<bobweaver> JontheEchidna,  yeah It says that (on LP) that it can not change dir's to /home/joseph   and I can understand why
<bobweaver> JontheEchidna,  one sec
<bobweaver> slow neytwork today
<JontheEchidna> no rush :)
<bobweaver> https://launchpad.net/~josephjamesmills/+archive/beta/+packages   it is the package Unity-2d-nudity1
<bobweaver> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1252077/    << debian/rules
<jtaylor> bobweaver: you can pass arguments to cmake by running dh_auto_configure -- cmake-args
<bobweaver> I have a feeling that I need to tell cmake to install to $(DESTDIR) but I am not sure how to do this ?
<JontheEchidna> it looks like the packaging has cmake generated files local to your machine...
<jtaylor> dh_auto_configure should set the install prefix to destdir already
<bobweaver> correct should I get ride of all the cache ?
<bobweaver> cool
<JontheEchidna> yes, it is the cmake files that are confusing the build daemon
<bobweaver> maybe try presitine package ?
<bobweaver> meaning do not run cmake at all on local
<JontheEchidna> yes, you will not need to run cmake locally
<bobweaver> there is the troubles very cool and thanks JontheEchidna
<JontheEchidna> no problem. :)
<bobweaver> yeah I just ran cmake  before so that I could test package on 12.10 (fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage -F)
<bobweaver> package build and compile and I have unity 2d on 12.10 now
<bobweaver> now just to get it into repo's
<bobweaver> well my repo thanks again
<JontheEchidna> here's an easy way to clean stuff up: mkdir build; cd build; cmake ../ -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX=/usr; make; make install
<JontheEchidna> then when you're done: rm -rf build/
<jtaylor> I think dh already does out of source builds for you
<jtaylor> but its been a while sinece I dealt with cmake packages :/
<JontheEchidna> I think he was just trying to do a local build, without any packaging involved
<bobweaver> yeah local build works great
<JontheEchidna> but yeah, debhelper will create its own build directory and instruct cmake to use that when building the package
<bobweaver> had to remange libs but works (little buggy but not that bad )    to clean I can run  find -iname '*cmake*' -not -name CMakeLists.txt -exec rm -rf {} \+      ?
<bobweaver> nm I see what you said above ^^
<bobweaver> Is there a way to tell dh_automake  to run with -j4 ?
<bobweaver> like for make -j4  (because I have 4 threads )
<jtaylor> --with parallel
<bobweaver> but with-in the build (just to make faster )
<jtaylor> then uses DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS
<bobweaver> sweet thanks jtaylor
<bobweaver> sorry about all the questions but this should be the last of the day (I hope) When building a package what do I do with the .bzr stuff remove it ?
<bobweaver> litian warning me
<tumbleweed> it shouldn't be in the source package
<bobweaver> lintian *
<tumbleweed> if you bulid with bzr bd, it shouldn't be there
<bobweaver> thanks tumbleweed . never used bzr to build, Looks like I got more cool stuff to learn about :)
<bobweaver> you all are straight up AWESOME in this channel !  thanks again for the help. If you all ever need any qml QT or C++ javascript stuff done. dont be shy to call me out. (it is the least that I could do (not sure that I could be the best help but hey I have to offer ))
<bobweaver> thanks again !
<tumbleweed> btw, debuild -i will also ignore that stuff (I have -i as a default debuild argument)
<bobweaver> Cool tumbleweed  !!
<micahg> jbicha_: yes, quantal-backports is open
<MohamedAlaa98> raof: hello :) I've branch merging propose https://code.launchpad.net/~m-alaa8/ubuntu/quantal/gtk-nodoka-engine/fix-for-803007/+merge/127177 so can you please merge it after the ubuntu 12.10 release? thank you ;)
<MohamedAlaa98> * :)
#ubuntu-motu 2013-09-23
<dholbach> good morning
<ESphynx> 'morning dholbach
<ESphynx> (why am I still up again :P)
<dholbach> hi ESphynx
<ESphynx> how's it going? :)
<dholbach> good good - how about yourself?
<ESphynx> Good :) though I'm getting worried the new Ecere SDK won't make it into Saucy :P
<dholbach> because of being past feature freeze?
<ESphynx> well technically it was all bug fixes, but I haven't heart anything back on it :P
<ESphynx> not to mention we're still fixing more bugs  :(
<shadeslayer> hiya, I'm not very familiar with the autotools make files, but I'm trying to fix virtuoso-opensource and I am getting this error : http://paste.kde.org/p729b2a83/
<shadeslayer> any ideas ?
<shadeslayer> ( rules need to be edited to DEB_AUTO_UPDATE_ACLOCAL = 1.13 and DEB_AUTO_UPDATE_AUTOMAKE =1.13 )
<shadeslayer> nvm
<shadeslayer> fixed it
#ubuntu-motu 2013-09-24
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hi kul
<dholbach> hi iulian
<iulian> I know I'm cool. :)
<dholbach> haha
<dholbach> it seems I need a coffee :)
<iulian> Nah, you're fine. :)
 * iulian likes when people call him cool.
 * dholbach hugs iulian
 * iulian hugs back.
 * iulian off to uni.
<geser> bdrung: Hi, did pyhunspell sat that long in the Ubuntu NEW queue that the sync was faster than the direct upload?
<cjwatson> geser: The irony is that if it hadn't been parallel-uploaded to Ubuntu NEW then it would have gone straight through when it was accepted in Debian.
<geser> cjwatson: right now pyhunspell 0.1-1 is in saucy but 0.1-0ubuntu1 is stuck in saucy-proposed as it's older (UPLOAD_FAIL)
<cjwatson> geser: oh, that's on the todo in http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html (URL notwithstanding) for me to look at and clear up
<bdrung> geser: yes
<bdrung> cjwatson: i did the Ubuntu upload, because I wasn't sure if pyhunspell gets through Debian NEW before the Ubuntu feature freeze.
<bdrung> sorry for creating such a mess.
<cjwatson> bdrung,geser: I've cleared it up now, anyway
<bdrung> cjwatson: thanks
#ubuntu-motu 2013-09-25
<dholbach> good morning
<fale_> I've found a package (pdfsam) that is way out of date. I've managed to update it. How can I push it into the main repos?
#ubuntu-motu 2013-09-26
<dholbach> good morning
 * Noskcaj wonders just how many channels dholbach says "good morning" on. And it's 5pm ;)
<dholbach> Noskcaj, I just wanted to say "hi" to everyone :)
<Noskcaj> nothing wrong with that
<ESphynx> dholbach: good morning ;)
<ESphynx> Good night for me, 3 AM :P
<dholbach> hi ESphynx
<Unit193> Here too. \o/
<ESphynx> yet another very productive 40 hours work day.
<highvoltage> One day dholbach will be on holiday and we'll still get a good morning and then we'll know he's just a script :p
<smartboyhw> highvoltage, +1
<highvoltage> (just joking)
<smartboyhw> highvoltage, I asked him how he says good morning in many channels, he says that he justs copy and paste:P
<Laney> James Tait gives you a good morning /and/ tells you what "day" it is today
<Laney> BEAT THAT
<dholbach> haha
<dholbach> yeah, James Tait is awesome
<geser> smartboyhw: if he uses irssi, he could use http://scripts.irssi.org/html/hello.pl.html :)
<davromaniak> ,,
<davromaniak> sorry, I need to take off my boxing gloves :/
<ESphynx> xnox: ping :)
#ubuntu-motu 2013-09-27
<eyecreate>  I have been keeping an updated version of a package that seems to be unmaintained in the Ubuntu repos in a PPA of mine. I was wondering the process needed to get this package available to the greater Ubuntu community so that others can benefit from the updated software.
<Noskcaj> Has someone got time to see if the latest debian revision of blender will build on ubuntu? I lack the hardware and it would be nice if we could have a version that builds for saucy (i know it's late)
<Noskcaj> also, what is the process for syncing a debian revision that fixes FTBFS and nothing else? (the package is libswe)
<dholbach> good morning
<Noskcaj> dholbach, Is there any chance we could sync jwchat? It fixes a installation error. We are currently on -1.1, the current debian revision is -1.3http://ftp-master.metadata.debian.org/changelogs/main/j/jwchat/unstable_changelog
<Noskcaj> Or is it better to cherry pick?
<Noskcaj> Also, libswe needs syncing, although only one revision up, not the ~10 new ones
<dholbach> Noskcaj, for jwchat the changes don't look crazy huge to me
<Noskcaj> How do i request a sync since the archive is frozen?
<dholbach> just request the sync - whenever it's suitable to get uploaded it should be taken care of
<Noskcaj> ok
<Rhonda> whaaaaat
<Rhonda> Why is there an ubuntu patch in/for wesnoth-1.10 that I didn't notice  :/
<Laney> Rhonda: not forwarded?
<Rhonda> hmm
<Rhonda> Ha
<Rhonda> That's fixed in 1.10.7
<Rhonda> So a syncpackage should get rid of the ubuntu change, right?
<Laney> --force, but yes
<Laney> it'll tell you off otherwise
#ubuntu-motu 2013-09-28
<Noskcaj> xnox, Is it worth syncing the latest debian revision of blender since the current ubuntu proposed one doesn't build
<Noskcaj> (i'm asking you since you were the last ubuntu uploader)
<chilicuil> debian/manpages can only list man files under the /debian directory?
<Noskcaj> chilicuil, no, you use it to list all manpages (maybe only ones not installed by the makefile)
<Noskcaj> and it's debian/PACKAGE.manpages
<chilicuil> Noskcaj: alright!, so, if the manpage is not being installed by anything else, can I a get a debian/package.manpages with the following: ../src/program.1 ?
<Noskcaj> I think it's just src/program.1, but yes
<chilicuil> Noskcaj: cool!, thanks
<Noskcaj> trial and error is your friend (if it's a huge build time, ignore this)
<chilicuil> lol, it's a python pkg, it's done fast, I'll try the trial and error way
<Noskcaj> chilicuil, Are you using http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/ ?
<Noskcaj> The best info for packaging is there
<chilicuil> Noskcaj: of course not!, I'm reusing the youtube-dl debian dir as an example =D
<chilicuil> however I'll look at it.., eventually
<Noskcaj> chilicuil, It's good, even if it's just as a reference
<Noskcaj> what package is it BTW?
<chilicuil> Noskcaj: yt, https://github.com/rjw57/yt/ a lovely cli interface for youtube
<chilicuil> this will be my first .deb package from scratch and it already produces a .deb pkg =D, with a lot of lintian warnings, though
<Noskcaj> chilicuil, FYI: You should probably use https://wiki.debian.org/Python/Packaging to make the package, not just cloning youtube-dl
<chilicuil> Noskcaj: I already tried without sucess =/, however the youtube-dl pkg made it to debian, if the same logic works for yt, shouldn't it be easy to get accepted as well?
<Noskcaj> chilicuil, to an extent, but the scripts that make python .deb's are quite good to start from. not a requirement, but useful
<Noskcaj> And for packaging, you should use #debian-mentors on irc.oftc.net
<chilicuil> Noskcaj: thanks for your suggestions, I'll make sure to ask next time in #debian-mentors
#ubuntu-motu 2013-09-29
<henrique> hi
<Noskcaj> hello henrique
<henrique> hello! i am new here, just learning what to do  to develop
<smartboyhw> henrique, read http://community.ubuntu.com/contribute/developers/
<Noskcaj> henrique, Do you know any programming languages?
<henrique> i learned a little bit of c++
<henrique> on college
<henrique> and C
<henrique> but i dont have pratice
<henrique> so...  i am trying to find a place to train..
 * smartboyhw would have recommended Mir, but that is no good for training beginner C++...
<henrique> Mir?
<Noskcaj> henrique, fixing bugs would probably be the best thing. Or try and learn to package.
<Noskcaj> Plus you've got QML stuff at developer.ubuntu.com
<henrique> http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/fixing-a-bug.html
<henrique> i am here right now.. haha
<Noskcaj> mir is very complex, probably something you should ignore
<Noskcaj> :)
<henrique> where do i see what need to be fixed?
<Noskcaj> henrique, Depending on the UI you want to look at harvest.ubuntu.com or bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu
<henrique> on launchpad i cand find only the bugs related to me?
<Noskcaj> henrique, What packages in particular would you like to help with?
<henrique> dont know yet..   something  to recommend?
<Noskcaj> henrique, Whatever packages you use regularly or for something easier, click the tag "bitesize"
<henrique> tks for the Help @Noskcaj see ya
<Noskcaj> cjwatson, Is there any chance you could sync felix-latin since all the new release does is fix the ubuntu delta?
<xnox> Noskcaj: does it build now?
 * xnox thinks it depends on the new libav.
<Noskcaj> xnox, what builds?
<xnox> Noskcaj: re: blender sync from 04:32, no idea which day.
<xnox> and/or your vs mine timezone (UTC+1 here)
<Noskcaj> oh. My pc and internet are actually too slow to test that
<xnox> Noskcaj: right, well it still FTBFS, I think it wants the new libav, which we didn't take for saucy.
<Noskcaj> ok. I'll Have a look in the changelog to see what's the  highst we can go without libav9
<xnox> Noskcaj: why?!
<xnox> Noskcaj: just leave it as it is.
<Noskcaj> ok
<ESphynx> xnox: there you are =)
#ubuntu-motu 2014-09-22
<vincent_c> Noskcaj: upstream is pushing for it to get into utopic, see LP: #1356627
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1356627 in geary (Ubuntu) "[needs-packaging] Please package Geary 0.7/0.8 for Utopic" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1356627
<dholbach> good morning
<teward> can I assume that https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bitcoin/+bug/1170915 should be "Won't Fix" since (a) the package is blacklisted for syncing, and (b) removed from all future versions of Ubuntu?  (Any fix would require a package to be uploaded ocntaining the latest verison, and having said that, the package is blacklisted still from syncing, and si removed in all later releases)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1170915 in bitcoin (Ubuntu) "bitcoind in 12.04 LTS is obsolete and should be upgraded" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<rbasak> teward: there was talk of an SRU to render bitcoin unusable in Precise. I don't know what the status of that is. If there's not a bug to track it, maybe the bug should be renamed "bitcoin in 12.04 is obsolete".
<teward> rbasak: i heard from Upstream there is a bug to track it...
<teward> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bitcoin/+bug/1314616 i think?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1314616 in bitcoin (Ubuntu Precise) "[SRU] bitcoin to be maintained upstream in PPA: Replace distro archive "bitcoin" bitcoin with an empty dummy package" [Undecided,Fix released]
<rbasak> That's the one
<rbasak> Maybe mark the other as a duplicate now? They both cover exactly the same issue.
<teward> rbasak: ehhh already went and "Won't Fix" and linked back
<teward> rbasak: could do that though
<teward> for all the open bugs...
<teward> s/open/now-closedc/
#ubuntu-motu 2014-09-23
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2014-09-24
<dholbach> good morning
<debfx> Laney: tinyxml 2 != tinyxml2 ;)
<Laney> yeah >:(
<debfx> though I wonder why I got the rejection mail
<jtaylor> I forgot, is there a way to figure out who synced something?
<debfx> jtaylor: yes, for example https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/utopic/+source/meld/3.11.4-1
<jtaylor> thx
<Laney> I usually look on -changes
#ubuntu-motu 2014-09-25
<dholbach> good morning
<jtaylor> hm can someone try syncing python-scipy? its not working for me
<jtaylor> which is weird, other packages work
<Laney> not working how?
<mitya57> I've just synced it (waiting for a mail)
<mitya57> Laney: still no mail, probably it didn't work
<mitya57> It definitely did *not* work (though syncpackage reported that request succeeded).
<Laney> I forgot how to check the logs
<Laney> erm
<Laney> you guys https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/utopic/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=
<dholbach> can you all please help out review the incoming sponsoring items? there's 94 of them right now.
<dupondje> Hi. Small question. trying to build a package for etch (yea I know, crappy outdated). But I get 'E: Release signed by unknown key (key id B5D0C804ADB11277)
<dupondje> any idea how to say 'ignore that, just fetch it' :)
<dupondje> thats with pbuilder-dist btw
<dupondje> --debootstrapopts --no-check-gpg it was :)
<Rhonda> dupondje: You could add the key with apt-key?
<dupondje> but then I need a base already ?
<dupondje> anyway, base tgz created, but now it doesn't build:   pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy: Depends: autoconf but it is not installable
<wookey> talk plugin not working in friefox - switching to chromium
#ubuntu-motu 2014-09-26
<dodobrain> any idea when the eol patch applied bash-4.3-7ubuntu1.3 will be in the security updates?
<ajmitch_> it's showing up there now
 * dodobrain tries again
<dodobrain> yup.. just showed up
<dodobrain> thanks
#ubuntu-motu 2014-09-27
<soulhacker> hi, would this be the right place to ask for help with packaging? I am trying to package rubinius for a ppa and am facing difficulties
<sney> what difficulties
<soulhacker> the problem is the configure script downloads some gems
<soulhacker> I tried caching them but then I get issues like https://launchpadlibrarian.net/185923781/buildlog_ubuntu-trusty-amd64.rubinius-2.2_2.2.10-11_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<sney> I don't know much about ruby, but I would wonder about those permission denied errors around line 930
<sney> why is it looking for anything in /root, specifically
#ubuntu-motu 2014-09-28
<ESource5> ikonia, ALRIGHT
<ESource5> !OPS
<ubottu> Help! Hobbsee, Riddell, sladen, fbond, mneptok, gnomefreak, Seveas, dholbach, elkbuntu, PriceChild, or jpds!
<ESource5> !OPS
<sladen> mmm?
<ESource5> ikonia, ALRIGHT
<ESource5> The book of Hebrews was written to Jewish Christians since it begins by referring to "the fathers and the prophets" (v. 1) and then it jumps into quoting Psalm 2. In fact, there are more than thirty Old Testament quotes in the epistle with many more allusions (Hebrews 3:16; 5:10; 8:5; 9:11-22; 12:16-18, etc.,) which included references to the Old Testament sacrificial system (Hebrews 8:3; 9:9; 10:4). Also, it appears that thos
<ESource5> e to whom this epistle is addressed have been Christians for some time (Hebrews 5:12) and had suffered persecution (Hebrews 10:32-34). Therefore, we can confidently say that the book of Hebrews was written to the Hebrew-Christian community as a whole, which would consist of a mix of true believers and those still leaning on the Old Testament sacrificial system. In Hebrews, the author is demonstrating the superiority of Christi
<ESource5> anity over Judaism. This is important because it sheds light on Hebrews 10:26. Let's take a look at its immediate context.
<ESource5> In our immediate context of Hebrews 10:26 we see that many in the Hebrew-Christian community were still looking to the Old Testament sacrificial system (Hebrews 10:1-4) with its burnt offerings (Hebrews 10:6, 8), Temple work (Hebrews 10:19, 20), priesthood (Hebrews 10:21), and the Law of Moses (Hebrews 10:28). Obviously, many in the Hebrew-Christian community were still looking back to the Old Testament system and not dependin
<ESource5> g on the sufficiency of Christ's sacrifice. As stated in the opening paragraph, the writer is not addressing individuals but a larger group of people with a mix of believers and non-believers. Some who had received the knowledge of the truth of the complete sufficiency of the sacrifice of Christ had not yet fully trusted in it and were dabbling with returning to the Old Testament sacrificial system.
<ESource5> We cannot assert that Hebrews 10:26 is written only to those who are saved. After all, how could they be saved if they are looking back to the old sacrificial system? But, without knowing exactly who is and is not trusting in Christ, the writer of Hebrews would generically address everyone and give the proper warning that if you go on sinning willfully (i.e., abandon the truth found in Christ and his sacrifice), then there wil
<ESource5> l be no sacrifice for sins because Jesus' sacrifice is the only one that can take away sin (Hebrews 10:4, 12-18). That is why in verse 18 it says, "Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer an the offering for sin." He is telling us that when someone is forgiven, there's no longer a need for another offering as in the Old Testament type offerings. To reject Christ's sacrifice is to go on sinning willfu
<ESource5> lly by remaining in the Old Testament sacrificial system. For those who do that, there is no longer sacrifice remaining for sin because for them Christ is not a sacrifice.
<ESource5> Therefore, when the writer said in Hebrews 10:26, "For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins," he is talking about those who had received the knowledge of the truth but were rejecting it--not that they were saved and and lost their salvation. To receive the knowledge of the truth does not mean they are saved. It means they received the knowledge o
<ESource5> f the truth of who Jesus was and what he did as well as the truth that "it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins" (Hebrews 10:4), and that God does not take pleasure in "whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sins" (Hebrews 10:6).  The writer wants them to trust in the only sacrifice for sins, which is Jesus' sacrifice on the cross, and not return to the old sacrificial system.
<ESource5>  
<ESource5> Therefore, when the writer said in Hebrews 10:26, "For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins," he is talking about those who had received the knowledge of the truth but were rejecting it--not that they were saved and and lost their salvation. To receive the knowledge of the truth does not mean they are saved. It means they received the knowledge o
<ESource5> f the truth of who Jesus was and what he did as well as the truth that "it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins" (Hebrews 10:4), and that God does not take pleasure in "whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sins" (Hebrews 10:6).  The writer wants them to trust in the only sacrifice for sins, which is Jesus' sacrifice on the cross, and not return to the old sacrificial system.
<ESource5> Therefore, when the writer said in Hebrews 10:26, "For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins," he is talking about those who had received the knowledge of the truth but were rejecting it--not that they were saved and and lost their salvation. To receive the knowledge of the truth does not mean they are saved. It means they received the knowledge o
<ESource5> f the truth of who Jesus was and what he did as well as the truth that "it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins" (Hebrews 10:4), and that God does not take pleasure in "whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sins" (Hebrews 10:6).  The writer wants them to trust in the only sacrifice for sins, which is Jesus' sacrifice on the cross, and not return to the old sacrificial system.
<ESource5> Therefore, when the writer said in Hebrews 10:26, "For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins," he is talking about those who had received the knowledge of the truth but were rejecting it--not that they were saved and and lost their salvation. To receive the knowledge of the truth does not mean they are saved. It means they received the knowledge o
<ESource5> f the truth of who Jesus was and what he did as well as the truth that "it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins" (Hebrews 10:4), and that God does not take pleasure in "whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sins" (Hebrews 10:6).  The writer wants them to trust in the only sacrifice for sins, which is Jesus' sacrifice on the cross, and not return to the old sacrificial system.
<ESource5> Therefore, when the writer said in Hebrews 10:26, "For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins," he is talking about those who had received the knowledge of the truth but were rejecting it--not that they were saved and and lost their salvation. To receive the knowledge of the truth does not mean they are saved. It means they received the knowledge o
<kloeri> ESource5: stop
<ESource5> f the truth of who Jesus was and what he did as well as the truth that "it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins" (Hebrews 10:4), and that God does not take pleasure in "whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sins" (Hebrews 10:6).  The writer wants them to trust in the only sacrifice for sins, which is Jesus' sacrifice on the cross, and not return to the old sacrificial system.
<ESource5> Therefore, when the writer said in Hebrews 10:26, "For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins," he is talking about those who had received the knowledge of the truth but were rejecting it--not that they were saved and and lost their salvation. To receive the knowledge of the truth does not mean they are saved. It means they received the knowledge o
<ESource5> f the truth of who Jesus was and what he did as well as the truth that "it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins" (Hebrews 10:4), and that God does not take pleasure in "whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sins" (Hebrews 10:6).  The writer wants them to trust in the only sacrifice for sins, which is Jesus' sacrifice on the cross, and not return to the old sacrificial system.
#ubuntu-motu 2015-09-22
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2015-09-23
<dholbach> good morning
<jmacdonald> Hi. I'm so new I have no idea about what i don't know but I want to help fix a bug.
<jmacdonald> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/snort/+bug/1246952
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1246952 in snort (Ubuntu) "tools -- snort-control, u2boat, u2spewfoo -- aren't packaged" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<jmacdonald> could someone help point me in a direction?
<jmacdonald> I think perhaps this might be an upstream issue.
<jmacdonald> heh, looks like upstream fixed it. https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=770882
<ubottu> Debian bug 770882 in snort "snort: tools from source" [Wishlist,Fixed]
#ubuntu-motu 2015-09-25
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2016-09-28
<elopio> Hey barry, for this autopkg<->git thing, can I use a branch? On the request URL I see only build-git, so it seems the branch has to be the default of that repo.
<elopio> oh, from pitti's comment in the bug I think I can use #
<elopio> or space, I see there's a bug.
<barry> elopio: right, you'll be able to use url#refspec
<barry> elopio: where refspec can be a branchname or pr spec
<barry> elopio: and yep, i found and fixed that bug in my patch :)
<elopio> yes, nice :)
<barry> i was confused by the code and pitti confirmed it was a bug :)
<elopio> I need to wait for sergiusens break to finish, but I think we are ready.
<elopio> barry: how do I get access to wendigo?
<barry> elopio: sorry, i don't know.  pitti has to do some magic on his side to make it all work
#ubuntu-motu 2016-10-02
<Grou> Good evening
#ubuntu-motu 2017-09-30
<dibadov> hi
#ubuntu-motu 2018-09-25
<Rhonda> rotfl, https://bugs.launchpad.net/pkg-website/+bug/1762746   xD
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1762746 in pkg-website "Russian title ÐÐ°Ð²Ð°Ð½ÑÐ°Ð¶Ð¸ÑÐ¸" [Undecided,New]
<Unit193> Impressive.
<Unit193> UK, RU what's the difference really?  Both have a 'U', that's 50% right there!
<Rhonda> "English UK website has Russian text" - where did they pick up that an English UK website exist?
<Rhonda> That's ukrainian :)
<Laney> a web search for "ubuntu packages uk" returns https://packages.ubuntu.com/uk/ for me
<Laney> I guess it's kind of understandable :-)
<Rhonda> Duh.  Why â¦
<Unit193> Descriminates against us Americans, no 'us' :(
<Unit193> Discriminates, rather. >_>
<Rhonda> You know that thing that discrimination only works when there is power structures in place?  Sorry, but I don't see that a discrimination against Americans could work in any way.
<Unit193> :>
<Rhonda> Hmm.  Anyone involed with the changelogs extraction?  There seems to be some issue here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/pkg-website/+bug/1715640
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1715640 in pkg-website "Changelogs are missing for Ubuntu 14.04" [Undecided,Triaged]
<Rhonda> â¦ and I wouldn't know where to redirect this bugreport to.
