#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-08-15
<_stink_> damn, i like both little caesars and hungry howies.
<rick_h_> .ugh
<rick_h_> http://local.yahoo.com/info-61191578-renderoni-s-second-slice-goodrich only truly *good* pizza
<_stink_> see, i think all pizza is good.
<_stink_> except that cheap frozen stuff you do in your oven or microwave
<_stink_> rick_h_: hah, that CHC place is like 1.5 miles closer for me
<_stink_> rick_h_: 1.9 miles
<rick_h_> _stink_: oh shhh'
<rick_h_> _stink_: so cool then, I think most everyone is ok with it
<rick_h_> we'll meet normal this week, but after that CHC is moving
<_stink_> my attendance dilutes my vote, but yep
<rick_h_> I'll write up a blog post and try to post the hell out of it
<rick_h_> _stink_: ah true, but I'm hoping to look at doing some deeper things there, python meetup, web dev meetup
<rick_h_> maybe we can start to make it worth your while once in a while :P
<_stink_> oh psh
<rick_h_> since east side doesn't have groups for that stuff
<_stink_> rick_h_: is there a way to have sqlalchemy tell me about all python objects i have mapped to tables?
<_stink_> classes
<_stink_> eep, classses
<rick_h_> grep __tablename__ **/*.py
<rick_h_> ?
<_stink_> well, i want a view to do something with them
<_stink_> like give metadata
<_stink_> i guess i could do in project.models...?
<rick_h_> well, yea. I'd import the container modules
<_stink_> but i wonder if i'll grab more than i want.
<rick_h_> and then loop through their items, checking isinstance()
<rick_h_> and for each item of the right instance type, print metadata
<_stink_> cool, i think that's the way.
<_stink_> thanks.
<rick_h_> there might be some way to get the session and find all objects that are part of that session
<rick_h_> or maybe ever get the metadata from the session and get stuff there
<rick_h_> you can check the irc channel, but I'm don't know the magic without hacking through it myself
<snap-l> Good God, Voyager had some really crap writing.
<jrwren> terrible.
<jrwren> go watch the tuvix episode.
<jrwren> the go watch the Stargate Atlantis episode "Duet" and see what good writing does to a similar scifi plot.
<rick_h_> damn I wish I had some better functional tests of this chrome extension
<rick_h_> pita
<snap-l> jrwren: I think the big problem is Voyager relied too heavily on spirit / ESP / posession / near death bullshit.
<snap-l> And all I can tell from the Delta quadrant is it's the same crap in the alpha quadrant, but with different makeup
<snap-l> Sigh... waiting for a podcast to happen that isn't happening (Music Manumit)
<snap-l> was supposed to guest-host during August, but so far haven't recorded a lick. ;)
<snap-l> Ah, speaking of the devil
<Wolfger> Morning.
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> though I don't know for how long, I need to go back to bed...zzzzz
<Wolfger> :-p
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h_> http://www.forbes.com/sites/parmyolson/2011/08/15/google-buys-motorola-mobility-for-12-5b-revs-up-patent-portfolio/
<rick_h_> ummm, wow
<snap-l> Yeah.
<snap-l> That's all over the place.
<rick_h_> I mean holy crap that's a big one
<rick_h_> 12B, cash...I wonder what HTC is thinking this morning
<snap-l> Welcome to the patent wars.
<rick_h_> Xoom, droid, etc...all moto
<rick_h_> if Google wants to start making a phone, welcome to the production facilities needed
<brousch> HTC is pooping their pants, hoping MS buys them
<rick_h_> psh, sorry HTC has become the company they are because of android
<rick_h_> but I think they're still pooping their pants
<rick_h_> I mean, there's no way moto doesn't get more say in development, early releases, etc
<snap-l> HTC isn't pooping their pants.
<snap-l> Moto just becomes the reference platform
<rick_h_> http://techcrunch.com/2011/08/15/live-blog-the-googlemotorola-acquisition-conference-call/
<rick_h_> well, they're saying all the right things
<rick_h_> and the nexus details in there are interesting
<rick_h_> it really does sound like they bought just for patents and want moto to keep running on the side like they have been
<rick_h_> which is sad, would be cool to get a better/more reference hardware stuff out
<snap-l> That'll come later
<rick_h_> would rock is every moto phone was unlocked out of the gate
<snap-l> after Google fends off Apple
<rick_h_> I'd finally have an easy time picking a verizon phone
<snap-l> and every other patent troll
<rick_h_> I think this just shut up a few people.
<rick_h_> "psh, we don't need no nortel patents for 4B in a group of buyers...we'll just buy the first cell phone maker out there for 12B"
<snap-l> Well, they also bought fab
<snap-l> so if every other manufacturer deserts them, they still have the ability to make phones
<rick_h_> yea, but too many companies making too much $$
<snap-l> Now, buy T-Mobile, and things get REALLY intersting. ;)
<rick_h_> name the samsung smart phone before their android devices?
 * snap-l thinks the AT&T T-Mo deal isn't going to go through
<rick_h_> it has to, if it fails ATT writes a 3B check to tmo and gives them spectrum
<snap-l> Pfft
<snap-l> AT&T doesn't need spectrum. AT&T needs customers.
<rick_h_> it's going to be one of those "see, we gave it tons of careful thought, this was no push through deal...but it's cool"
<rick_h_> no no no
<rick_h_> att needs spectrum to get their 4g up
<rick_h_> that's the whole point of the tmo deal
<rick_h_> get everyone onto att's current spectrum, and then use tmo's for the 4g rollout
<rick_h_> they don't have enough to do the full rollout right now
<snap-l> http://www.slashgear.com/att-letter-damages-case-for-t-mobile-acquisition-12171486/
<rick_h_> it's more cost effective because they just go up tmo towers and replace the radios
<rick_h_> no need to land lease more, build new towers, etc
<rick_h_> But Ralph de la Vega, AT&T's head of wireless and consumer services, told the Associated Press shortly after the merger â and official AT&T documents on the merger reflect this â that AT&T is completely repurposing T-Mobile's 3G airwaves for LTE.
<rick_h_> A few years down the line, T-Mobile 3G phones will no longer receive 3G data after the merger once AT&T begins repurposing those towers. According to AT&T documents, the carrier will deploy âmulti-mode devicesâ for these T-Mobile customers and migrate them over to AT&T's 3G network.
<rick_h_> it's in the docs submitted to the fcc as the plan
<snap-l> I doubt they "need" t-mo to go through with that.
<rick_h_> well, they're using all of their spectrum right now, and it' can't do both 3g/4g at the same time
<rick_h_> so they'd have to reduce 3g capacity in order to deploy 3g, and att can't do that, they've already got a reputation sorrier than such
<rick_h_> /such/suck
<snap-l> I love how this deal has pretty much taken over all of my social media streams
<snap-l> between that and Warren Buffet saying he's OK with being taxed, I'm not seeing much else.
<snap-l> Oh, and Michelle Bachmann opened her corndog-hole, and words came out.
<Wolfger> :-)
<ColonelPanic001> again?
<rick_h_> heh, I don't know. I've got a good mix going
<Wolfger> and until now, I've been ignorant of all of that. Thanks, snap-l
<ColonelPanic001> someone needs to tell them to stop letting words come out
<rick_h_> all in your follows
<Wolfger> next time she opens her corndog hole, stick a corndog in it?
<ColonelPanic001> Â¯\ (ã·) /Â¯
<Wolfger> ColonelPanic001++
<rick_h_> ok, I'm not sure what that is, but it's scary
<Wolfger> that is an awesome ascii art
<Wolfger> well... unicode art, I'm sure
<snap-l> Is that the trollface?
<ColonelPanic001> (ã¥ï½¡ââ¿â¿âï½¡)ã¥
<ColonelPanic001> The best part of unicode was the possibilities presented for emoticons and other single-line character art.
<snap-l> and libreoffice got an update, and dhcp has a security bug
<snap-l> that's all for the morning's news.
<snap-l> Oh, and Bookie 0.3 nears release
<ColonelPanic001> snap-l should do a daily 10 minute podcast
<ColonelPanic001> I'd listen to it
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: Hell no
<ColonelPanic001> DO IT
<ColonelPanic001> I NEED MY NEWS
<snap-l> read a paper
<ColonelPanic001> You expect me to read dead trees? How primitive.
<snap-l> yes, yes I do
 * ColonelPanic001 goes off to read the news like a barbarian.
<ColonelPanic001> maybe for lunch I'll club a deer with a stick.
<snap-l> DO IT
<snap-l> I NEED MY VENISON
<ColonelPanic001> there are no deer in Detroit. Plenty of shooting though, so there's a chance.
<snap-l> Actually, could you club a sheep instead?
<snap-l> I NEED MY EWES
<ColonelPanic001> You won't want the sheep when I'm done with it.
<snap-l> TMI
<snap-l> I have noticed there's now a handful of OSS folks posting on identi.ca
<snap-l> most, if not all of the folks that I follow on identi.ca are on twitter.
<snap-l> and active on Twitter.
<ColonelPanic001> yeah
<ColonelPanic001> chromatic comes to mind, he's been on identica for as long as I was, at least. He's also on twitter too
<snap-l> I stopped following him on Twitter.
<snap-l> since he crossposts
<snap-l> (not that I don't do that either)
<ColonelPanic001> heh
<ColonelPanic001> I haven't been keeping up woth identica at all.
<ColonelPanic001> I am a bad FOSS user
<ColonelPanic001> they need someone like google or something to do an installation, so the protocol will pick up
<snap-l> I think the problem is all of the mobile clients suck
<snap-l> The statusnet client for iPhone is pretty poor
<snap-l> Problem is, I don't think there's a way to do things like push notifications, etc for identica like sites
<snap-l> since statusnet is supposed to be distributed.
<ColonelPanic001> ah, hadn't thought of that
<ColonelPanic001> think I just heard _stink_ come in
<brousch> you don't hear _stink_ come in, you smell him
<_stink_> indeed
<_stink_> you did
<_stink_> both
<ColonelPanic001> I have no argument against that
<Wolfger> best use of QR Code, ever: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/1108/did-you-see-that-0811/content.16.html
<ColonelPanic001> sfw?
<ColonelPanic001> I defied danger and just went anyway. Amusing
<Wolfger> Sports Illustrated is almost always SFW... I mean, it is available on every newstand, no ID required.
<ColonelPanic001> true enough
<snap-l> Downloading oneiric via torrent
<snap-l> going to give it a thorough once-over and file plenty of bugs
<brousch> snap-l: It being Monday isn't enough pain for you?
<snap-l> brousch: Har har
<snap-l> We're on hour 3 of the amazing news that Google has bought Morotola
<snap-l> Apparently the west coast just woke up, and is now shitting themselves silly.
<ColonelPanic001> that's always how I wake up
<jcastro> snap-l: it makes RSS, twitter, and g+ useless
<jcastro> it's like, thanks for resharing that dude, I DIDN'T KNOW.
<snap-l> Yeah, no shit
 * greg-g waves from Minneapolis
<snap-l> What's awesome are all of the people on one side saying that Android's Ecosystem will change
<snap-l> hey greg-g !
<snap-l> and the other side saying that Google did this for patent protection.
<snap-l> And like a reeses peanut butter cup, it's likely both.
<jcastro> easier to buy them than be stuck in court for 10 years with patents
<snap-l> but not as drastic as anyone would like to make it
<greg-g> mmmmm, peanut butter cups
<jcastro> and then you tell all the other android people you'll use them to protect all android partners
<snap-l> greg-g: You need to track down Iron Thrones and say Hi. ;)
<jcastro> which is why all their quotes are the same, lol
<jcastro> "thank you google for protecting android"
<greg-g> snap-l: hah :)
<snap-l> "Thank you Google for protecting your vested interests."
<greg-g> amazing, a business protecting its interests? NO WAY!
<snap-l> YA-WAY
<jcastro> I'd rather they spend that money on improving android tbh
<snap-l> That's OK. I heard that This American Life did a segment on software patents, so they'll be doing away soon
<snap-l> nobody messes with Ira Glass.
<snap-l> s/doing away soon/doing away with them soon/
<jcastro> heh
<_stink_> hah, heard some of that
<snap-l> It was a good piece.
<snap-l> But yeah, that went all over the place with the FLOSS community.
<ColonelPanic001> today's XKCD nearly made me lol (in the literal sense)
<snap-l> It's true, though
<rick_h_> bah, you know it's a crappy monday when you get in IM "do you remember your PHP?"
<_stink_> hah
<snap-l> woo hoo
<rick_h_> haven't touched the language in 18+mo
<rick_h_> but I supposed it might come back to me...ugh why?
<jrwren> hehehe... php.
<jrwren> IM from whom?
<rick_h_> boss
<jrwren> ewe
<rick_h_> oh it gets better. Originally written by a german with comments in german and there's a line referencing magic quotes
<rick_h_> i win!
<Wolfger> rick_h_: full of win
<Blazeix> wait until you find the section where he praises register_globals.
<rick_h_> Blazeix: you're not helping :P
<snap-l> rick_h_: That's awesome.
<rick_h_> gah this is horrible, looks too much like JS, the todo list is in english, but the html is all german, bah
<rick_h_> what did I do this weekend that pissed someone off lol
<Wolfger> Oh wow... news flash on Slashdot... ISP's don't reach their advertised speeds.
<Wolfger> I'm stunned
<snap-l> Also, have been downloading like a mad fool from Magnatune
<rick_h_> awesome
<snap-l> they've got a lot of awesome classical.
<snap-l> Definitely worth it if you like Baroque stuff
<snap-l> and romantic stuff
<snap-l> Wolfger: Gee, there's a surprise
<snap-l> If anyone wants some samples. let me know
<snap-l> <3 Magnatune
<snap-l> http://magnatune.com/info/give
<snap-l> Would love to see them record some bigger orchestral works.
<snap-l> Would love a Mahler cycle or two. ;)
<snap-l> http://magnatune.com/artists/sebastian_forster
<snap-l> http://magnatune.com/artists/lara_st_john <- The vivaldi album is awesome
<snap-l> unfortunately, it's only the Vivaldi Four Seasons. There's also a Piazzolla Four Seasons recorded on the SACD.
<snap-l> http://larastjohn.com/ <- Also uses Drupal
<rick_h_> phew, php mission complete
<rick_h_> that was scary, I miss my list comprehensions
<snap-l> Wow, taking a look at the new Status.net software.
<snap-l> 1.0 is going to rock.
<rick_h_> bah, appengine and it's stupid py2.5
<brousch> py2.5 is all you need
<brousch> that's the least of appengine's annoyances ;)
<rick_h_> oh...my...crap...
<rick_h_> the CHC website is a joke, ugh
<brousch> heh
<brousch> straight GAE, or something shoehorned in?
<rick_h_> https://gist.github.com/1147318
<rick_h_> http://coffeehousecode.appspot.com/locations/detroit.html is that
<snap-l> You're shitting me
<rick_h_> I was worried updating would be hard lol
<rick_h_> http://www.eclipse.org/orion/ along the lines of the firefox announcement today
<rick_h_> http://antennasoft.net/robcee/2011/08/15/scratchpad-can-haz-orion/
<rick_h_> http://blog.mitechie.com/2011/08/15/coffeehousecoders-is-dead-long-live-coffeehousecoders/
<rick_h_> waldo323_: snap-l _stink_ Blazeix widox ^^
<rick_h_> pass the word around to those I'm not thinking of
<rick_h_> and aaron if you run across him
<brousch> trying to break into my racket?
<rick_h_> heh, your racket?
<rick_h_> bow to the original :P
<rick_h_> well, I guess AA was the original, but they meet every blue moon so don't count
<snap-l> It's not dead.
<rick_h_> at the old location it will be
<rick_h_> I'll change the title if it makes a wrong impression
<snap-l> Yeah, I think it does
<snap-l> I mean, nothing died, we're just looking to expand
<rick_h_> http://blog.mitechie.com/2011/08/15/chc_moving/
<brousch> shouldn't that be chc_detroit is moving?
<rick_h_> probably, but I typed this, detroit is in the new page title
<rick_h_> consider it shock and awe to get you to read the post :P
<snap-l> Also, we're just rying this out to see if it'll work, right? :)
<rick_h_> well, everyone that are regulars says it won't prevent them from going
<rick_h_> so I'm not sure how it won't work out
<rick_h_> I'd rather just commit, this is the change. I guess if something comes up we can backtrack, but not planning to backtrack off the start
<brousch> it's still a 2.5 hour drive for me :(
<snap-l> OK
<waldo323_> its "on my way home"
<waldo323_> i just need to take a different way home
<rick_h_> waldo323_: awesome, good to hear
<waldo323_> with work in troy and home in livonia there are many ways to get home so it won't be much of a change for me
<rick_h_> cool, we'll be at the old location this week
<rick_h_> so will have a chance to remind everyone in person
<waldo323_> ok
<Blazeix> "whining about what that co-worker did to your code while you werenât looking." nice.
<rick_h_> :)
<ColonelPanic001> rick_h_: saw your "chc is moving" thing, but it doesn't say what the "new location" is
<rick_h_> ?? the blog post?
<rick_h_> has an embedded google map, the address, etc
<ColonelPanic001> last one I was at was a Caribou Coffee... did you guys move away from there for a while?
<brousch> it's way down at the bottom, where i would expect an ad
<rick_h_> no, we're moving to a new caribou coffee
<ColonelPanic001> oh, nevermind then.
<rick_h_> well, figured once people got the map they'd not read further down
<rick_h_> and want to be clear the dates/etc
<brousch> yeah, i'm just pickin on you
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: BTW: if you ever decide to sign up for FICS, my nick is snapl
<ColonelPanic001> fics
<ColonelPanic001> ?
<ColonelPanic001> ah. Not familiar with it
<ColonelPanic001> I'll poke at it later tonight if I remember
<snap-l> http://freechess.org
<snap-l> Goes for anyone else, if you're interested
<snap-l> eboard is a very good Linux interface.
<ColonelPanic001> as long as you promise to keep your comments about how much I suck at chess to a reasonable minimum
<snap-l> I'm horrible as well.
<snap-l> so never you mind. ;)
<ColonelPanic001> oh, yeah, everyone says that. Then I teach them what "horrible" means.
<ColonelPanic001> ;)
<jrwren> snap-l: status.net ?
<brousch> that's a great idea. chess over identi'ca
<brousch> everyone could watch your game
<snap-l> brousch: You'd likely need a special client for it
<snap-l> brousch: But it would be do-able.
<snap-l> jrwren: Status.net is the software running identi.ca
<ColonelPanic001> that'd be interesting
<_stink_> damn AT&T
<_stink_> i made a perverted joke and i don't think it got through
<brousch> and this is ATT's fault?
<_stink_> it dropped my broadband connection
<_stink_> must be their decency filters
<brousch> filters are good for some people
<snap-l> heh
<rick_h_> oh crap https://github.com/blog/905-edit-like-an-ace
<brousch> d00d
<snap-l> rick_h_: DOOOOOOOOD
<snap-l> THAT IS AWESOME!
<snap-l> ;)
<snap-l> I wonder if that's bespin behind the covers?
<brousch> getting close to being able to use the chromebook for everything
<snap-l> Nope, cloud9
<snap-l> which is the same thing, Google and Kevin Dangoor's blog tells me.
<rick_h_> bespin == skywriter == ace
<snap-l> http://mozillalabs.com/skywriter/2011/01/18/mozilla-skywriter-has-been-merged-into-ace/
<rick_h_> yep, was just asking kevin why that wasn't in this new scratchpad thing in FF
<brousch> damn, i need to try some of this out
<rick_h_> hah, awesome
<rick_h_> editing .rst docs on bookie from github
<brousch> how do you commit? is that built into github?
<rick_h_droid> Yea
<brousch> so you can brach, and edit, and merge all through their webui?
<rick_h_droid> well fork it commit and then pull request
<rick_h_droid> and then merging the pull request is one button in the web ui
<brousch> nice
<brousch> so i won't have to learn after all. i can do it all in my web browser O:-)
<rick_h_droid> will be cool for those small doc updates.. I don't have to git clone it locally to make the changes
<rick_h_droid> snapl podcast tomorrow?
<brousch> now it's easier to code from your phone, too
<snap-l> rick_h_droid: Possibly?
<snap-l> rick_h_droid: I should be free tomorrow to podcast.
<rick_h_droid> cool, and will get notes together
<snap-l> rick_h_droid: What time, roughly?
<rick_h_droid> 8?
<snap-l> kk
<snap-l> Anyone know who to escalate issues with Launchpad to?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-08-16
<Wolfger> morning
<rick_h_> http://www.clickondetroit.com/video/28876290/index.html wife made the news with a flash of the little techie
<rick_h_> and morning
<Duolos> Good morning, Ubuntites.
<rick_h_> party
<Duolos> Hey, brousch
<Duolos> Thanks for the approval :)
<brousch> heh, no problem. i must have been the first one awake this morning
<Wolfger> Learning Rails 3 pre-release on O'R DotD
<snap-l> Wolfger: pass
<Wolfger> rick_h_: congrats on being married to a TV star :-)
<rick_h_> Wolfger: heh
<snap-l> Bugger, I missed that last night
<rick_h_> I went to bed
<rick_h_> but saw it this morning
<rick_h_> she did good in it, a little bit of the willow tree waving effect going on
<rick_h_> but good
<brousch> willow tree waving?
<snap-l> http://www.clickondetroit.com/health/28873714/detail.html ?
<rick_h_> shen she talks she waves back/forth
<rick_h_> yea, that's the link she sent me this morning for it
<snap-l> Yeah, you can tell she's a little nervous
<snap-l> Love their edits
<snap-l> You can tell she was talking much more than they used
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> that's tv news spots I'd imagine
<Wolfger> film lots, edit down to "the good stuff"
<snap-l> Wolfger: You mean the soundbites.
<Wolfger> which is why it's dangerous for any fringe group to ever do a tv interview.... because "the good stuff" to the network is usually "what makes you sound batshit crazy"
<snap-l> "I... think it's OK... to vaccinate... children"
<snap-l> Every TV program is a narrative. The editing room makes things fit that narrative.
<rick_h_> well, yea they have to make it scary "OMG your kid might be missing stuff...and die!"
<rick_h_> at least the part about me having the whooping cough got cut out
<snap-l> of course.
<snap-l> Grateful they didn't put in that you had whooping cough
<snap-l> strategic edit. ;)
<rick_h_> yea, but makes for a great "See, even this Dr's moronic husband can fall prey to this crap"
<snap-l> rick_h_: Not moronic... you just happen to be a magnet for this stuff.
<snap-l> bbl
<brousch> hehe
<brousch> Duolos: where are you located?
<Duolos> Grand Rapids
<Duolos> Not a lot of meetings out this way :-/
<brousch> um, you're kidding right?
<brousch> weekly linux social
<brousch> tomorrow night
<Duolos> I didn't see anything on the official page.
<Duolos> Guess I didn't look hard enough :)
<brousch> ah, no ubuntu meetings, but plenty of linux
<Duolos> I see a lot of meetings for detroit.
<Duolos> ahhh
<brousch> tomorrow night 7-10 in jenison, beer if you want it
<Duolos> Honestly, I haven't looked into it too much.  I'd love to get together with other linux users, but would feel a bit out of place since they usually seem to be developers and I'm not.
<Duolos> Well, I'd love to, but I work 3rd shift.
<brousch> doh
<brousch> well sign up for the GRLUG mailing list to get announcements and such
<Duolos> Where would I go to keep up with when those meetings are happening?
<Duolos> Nevermind :)
<Duolos> alright, I'll find it
<brousch> http://grlug.org/mailman/listinfo/grlug
<brousch> There's a big geek conference coming up this weekend, BarCampGR
<brousch> friday evening and saturday, 30 minute talks on whatever people want to talk about
<Duolos> Hmm... the main GRLUG page redirects to a broken link; just in case you know the admin
<brousch> Duolos: yeah, i just saw that
<brousch> the grlug web page is a ghetto
<brousch> the mailing list is active though
<Duolos> Alright.  Just signed up for it.
<brousch> i may tackle it after i revamp the gr python page
<Duolos> Thanks
<Duolos> heh... I'm continually disappointed in websites for so-called "tech-savvy" people
<brousch> well to make it purty you need a designer
<Duolos> Yeah, I s'pose
<brousch> so you're an admin?
<Duolos> Noooo.  Just a desktop user.
<Duolos> Unless you consider providing unlimited tech support for anyone that hears I "know computers" an admin
<brousch> hah
<brousch> that's how it starts ;)
<Duolos> Oh, I know it.  Do it for free once and suddenly you're locked into it for life.
<brousch> There are a ton of tech meetings in grand rapids, unfortunately most of them are from 6PM - 9PM on week days
<brousch> http://conga-wm.org/group-list/
<Duolos> Oh, wow.  Yeah, I didn't think there'd be that much interest.
<Duolos> I do miss the days of BBS get together's, though, and have been itching to get back into that kind of community.
<Duolos> Anyway, thank you for the info!
<brousch> np
<brousch> hope to see you at one of the meetings
<brousch> even if you just drop by for a few minutes, stop in to say hi
<Duolos> I'll try to plan on it whenever I get the time off.
<Duolos> Is there like a secret handshake so I know I introduce myself to the right group of people? :)
<brousch> hah
<brousch> no, just find me
<brousch> or jump in to any conversation
<Duolos> So walk in and announce that I'm looking for Broush.  Got it :)
<Duolos> I'll think of some way to get there soon.  I assume you're in GR too, then?
<brousch> right
<Duolos> alright, then.  Hopefully I'll run into you soon.
<nullspace> rick_h_: in your woodworking ever run into a tool that required 20amps?
<rick_h_> nullspace: sure, all the time
<rick_h_> my table saw on startup can blow a 20amp breaker
<rick_h_> had to go to 40
<jrwren> snap-l: escalate issue with luanchpad??/ this is open source... you don't get to escalate.
<jrwren> or... go buy commercial support from canonical
<jrwren> brousch: zomg, you have 3 boys???
<brousch> jrwren: only 1 that i know of
<jrwren> lol, oh.
<jrwren> oh it was rick_h_'s dr. wife on the news, not your wife with the kids.
<jrwren> man... vaccines are a scam.
<jrwren> vaccines don't actually do what they say. they are actually docility drugs adn infertility drugs that the aliens controlling our government urge us to take.
<Wolfger> <roll eyes/>
<jrwren> lol.
<brousch> is that why the birthrate is falling and sales of Yanni's music are at an all-time high?
<rick_h_> jrwren: you'd be suprised how often my wife hears that
<rick_h_> nothing breaks a dr's heart like seeing a little guy with parents that refuse to get the shots
<nullspace> woah woah woah, Yanni sales are at an all time high?
<nullspace> rick_h_: I call it natural selection
<jrwren> i wish my wife had the balls to refuse the shots.
<Duolos> Hmm  I thought autism has been traced directly to vaccines.
<jrwren> Duolos: nope, that was all lies.
<rick_h_> Duolos: NO
<Duolos> In fact, it has been.
<jrwren> Duolos: no, it hasn't.
<rick_h_> and again NO
<Duolos> Lies?  In medical journals?
<Duolos> lol NEVER
<rick_h_> believe it
<jrwren> Duolos: Jenny McCarthy is just a nutter.
<Duolos> I... don't know anything about jenny McCarthy
<rick_h_> unless you have a stats degree you can't believe anything in a medical journal
<nullspace> Duolos: that's call quack science, studies take years to produce viable results
<rick_h_> welcome to the world of "must get published to show I did work/keep job"
<jrwren> Duolos: she was a huge proponent that vaccines cause autism. there is NO scientific evidence of this.
<rick_h_> casusation, correlation, etc
 * jrwren moves into serious mode.
<Duolos> jrwren: oh dear
<Duolos> Did I stumble into #liberalism? ;)
<rick_h_> yea, don't perpetrate the urban myth please
<jrwren> huh? certainly not.
<jrwren> but again: there is no evidence.
<nullspace> Duolos: no you stumbled in a room full of science nerds
<rick_h_> no, you stumbled upon people that watch the news and don't actually think about what they're told
<rick_h_> well, the oposite of that
<Duolos> eh... can't believe much of what's on the news anymore.
<jjesse> wow i look away from this channel and it goes all crazy :P
<jrwren> yeah, one of whom is married to a Dr.... the other of whom is married to a phd abt human geneticist who went to med school :)
<nullspace> jjesse: rawr!
<Duolos> I miss the days when anchors told the news instead of interpreting it for us
<rick_h_> then treat any medical journal article the same one
<rick_h_> /one/way
<Duolos> jrwren: I find that a lot of doctors and "experts" don't have a clue what they're talking about :)
<rick_h_> it's all about how the study was done, what the actual results show,
<jrwren> don't beleive ANYTHING on the news... if there was a new agency or a politician involves, its 99% lies.
<jjesse> i just believe what i read on the itnernet
<rick_h_> lol, that's perfectly safe
<rick_h_> :P
<brousch> i only believe jon stewart
<Duolos> rick_h_: Right.  Like evolution.  There haven't been any studies because there CAN'T be and we can't produce results...
<Duolos> :P
<jrwren> Duolos: agreed 100%.  doctors are just as dumb and incompetent as any other group of people.
<jjesse> that and what steven colbert tells me
<rick_h_> jrwren: amen!
<Duolos> jrwren: and biased... they'll distort anything until they're right.
<jrwren> "there haven't been any studies" <-- is false.
<rick_h_> working at a medical school will shatter any notions of the mightly dr
<jrwren> evolution has been studied since Darwin
<Duolos> jrwren: no no no.  No one has every studied evolution.  Because it happens to slowly to watch.
<jrwren> rick_h_: yup!  or going out drinking with med students :)
<rick_h_> Duolos: jrwren is still on vaccines
<jrwren> i am?
<jrwren> Duolos: i disagree.
<nullspace> rick_h_: going to the court house adn watching a medical malpractiice suit will do the same thing
<rick_h_> oh, figured you were :)
<Duolos> jrwren: Just saying that taking a conclusion and then finding evidence to support it is the OPPOSITE of the scientific method.
<Duolos> jrwren: And you're wrong :P
<jrwren> Duolos: no one has EXPERIMENTED with evolution... but STUDYING is what we ahve been doing since darwin.
<jrwren> to say no one has studied evolution is a very ignorant statement.
<nullspace> ok that's enough trolling
<Duolos> jrwren: again, ya can't study something that happens too slowly to watch.  You can study your IDEAS or BELIEFS about what is happening, that's all.
<Duolos> But I digress
<Duolos> :P yay linux and stuff!
<Duolos> I just think it's funny that "scientists" will find one bone and tell us all about how early human ancestors raised their children. :P
<rick_h_> yay for hyperbole!
<brousch> what about viruses? they evolve all the time
<jrwren> Duolos: you are wrong.
<jrwren> Duolos: you can study ANYTHING.
<Duolos> brousch: from one form to another, not one species to another
<Duolos> jrwren: I guess that all just comes down to how you define "study."  Maybe I'm using the wrong word for it, true.
<jrwren> you seem to be.
<jrwren> lab mice have evolved to their own species.
<Wolfger> being unable to observe evolution != being unable to study it
<Wolfger> jrwren: ??? citation?
<Duolos> jrwren: yeah... I didn't know there was a species known as "lab mouse"
<jrwren> http://www.nus.edu.sg/iacuc/files/The%20Laboratory%20Mouse.pdf
<Duolos> jrwren: on which page does it describe how it evolved from a different species?
<Duolos> It's a little too long for a quick read through
<jrwren> tl dr
<Duolos> Oh, wait.  First sentence says it was "derived from the common house mouse."  So... it was still a mouse before.  Got it.
<Wolfger> grr. Something in the work firewall is mucking with that PDF. I'll have to read it later
<Wolfger> Duolos: that's how evolution works
<Duolos> That was selective breeding and adaptation, not evolution.
<Wolfger> you don't get mice from snails...
<jrwren> now you are redefining evolution.
<Duolos> No... actually, I wasn't defining evolution at all
<brousch> new species don't just pop out of nothing they evolve, change from another species
<jrwren> you are eliminating selective breeding adn adaptation from its definition.
<Duolos> I was pointing out that the article you posted talks about selective breeding and adaptation, not evolution.
<jrwren> those two things are inherent in evolution
<jrwren> throw in some mutation and there isn't much left to evolution
<Duolos> Except that "selective" suggests a "selector" of which evolution has none (by definition)
<brousch> the ecosystem is the selector
<Duolos> oh wait. natural selection.  right.
<snap-l> And good morning again.
<Wolfger> Evolution: (Biology) change in the gene pool of a population from generation to generation by such processes as mutation, natural selection, and genetic drift.
<Duolos> haha
<brousch> the conditions in the environment
<Duolos> Wolfger: I get that.  I was referring to "macroevolution," everything from nothing.
<Wolfger> conservation of mass... you can't get anything from nothing :-)
<brousch> it's just evolution over a long time scale
<Duolos> Wolfger: exactly.
<Wolfger> nobody's every said that you do
<Duolos> But everything must have a beginning.
<Duolos> Wolfger: nobody's EVER said that?
<brousch> what's your beginning?
<Wolfger> everything must have a beginning? How do you figure that?
<Duolos> haha
<Duolos> Wolfger: physics
<brousch> in fact, everything is always changing
<Duolos> Energy, for example, can never be created or destroyed.
<Duolos> Same with mass.
<Duolos> err matter
<brousch> sure it can, its created in chemical and nuclear reactions
<snap-l> Please define energy
<rick_h_> lol
<Wolfger> I see no proof for the statement that "everything must have a beginning", and you seem to be grabbing things out of thin air to argue against....
<Duolos> snap-l: uhm... lemme google it for you lol
<rick_h_> careful, I see snapl getting jodee involved here in a sec
<Duolos> snap-l: The strength and vitality required for sustained physical or mental activity.
<snap-l> Oh yes, yes it will happen
<snap-l> No, it's the ability for something to do work
<Duolos> brousch: the energy isn't created in those instances... it just changes forms.
<rick_h_> Duolos: man, you cause a lot of commotion for your first day lol
<Duolos> snap-l: Email Google and tell them they lied ;)
<Duolos> rick_h_: I walked in on a controversial topic and boom, I'm in :P
<snap-l> I think you're looking at the Merriam Webster definition
<snap-l> which isn't correct for a physics debate. :)
<Duolos> snap-l: okay, email them then
<Duolos> Oh good grief, I just googled for a quick definition because you didn't know what "energy" meant lol if you already knew, don't ask
<rick_h_> oh geeze
<brousch> the big bang is the current leading theory for the beginning of everything. 13 billion years is a long time. long enough to go from an explosion to people
<snap-l> Well, I wanted everyone to be clear on the term Energy before using it
<Duolos> brousch: but still, something must have existed in order for it to explode.  so that still isn't the beginning... unless all the matter just always...was.
<snap-l> physicists get very irritated when people use energy as a synonym for other things.
<snap-l> ie: quantum energy
<brousch> Duolos: there are some things that scientists do not have an answer for yet. that's what makes it so interesting
<Duolos> snap-l: I was using energy more along the lines of Newton's laws
<snap-l> Duolos: You might want to update your understanding of physics, then. :)
<Duolos> An object in motion, an object at rest, etc.  Stuff I can't forget from junior high :)
<snap-l> Quantum / Relativity are fun. :)
<Duolos> snap-l: oh, you mean the physical laws of the universe have changed in the past 15 years?  Or our understanding of them?
<Wolfger> heh. Appropos for the current mood of the channel: http://shirt.woot.com/shirts/shirts/university-wikipedius
<Duolos> Yeah... not gonna put all my faith and belief in some "smart guys" that change their minds every year :P
<brousch> who else is there?
<snap-l> Please read up on General Relativity and Quantum prior to engaging in debates on Evolution.
<rick_h_> Wolfger: lmao
<Duolos> Wolfger: seems unavailable to me.
<Wolfger> Duolos: you'd rather put your faith in dumb guys who never acknowledge new information?
<snap-l> Newtonian physics is good as a broad brush for everyday activities, but it doesn't explain the cosmos, nor atomic phenomenon
<Duolos> Wolfger: New information that will be wrong the next time a science article is published?
<Wolfger> ok, that link appears to not exist yet. Until the end of the day: http://shirt.woot.com/
<brousch> that's how you build a correct model, by looking at the evidence as it comes in and debating what it means
<Wolfger> Duolos: you fail to grasp how science works
<brousch> and having the flexibility of though and belief to admit you were wrong
<Duolos> I'm not claiming to have all the answers at all, but I also don't want to say "evolution is an indisputable fact" when there's so little evidence to support it (and that evidence changes constantly)
<snap-l> Duolos: I think you need to understand what evidence and proof mean. :)
<snap-l> Evidence is not "shit that some guy made up"
<Duolos> brousch: Right, I get that.  The problem with most evolutionist scientists is that they interpret evidence against their conclusions, not the other way around.  They'll never change their conclusion regardless of what evidence shows.
<snap-l> Proof is not "conjecture some guy threw out there"
<snap-l> Evidence is observation with careful study, and repeatable results
<Duolos> So they change how they view the evidence.
<snap-l> No, they understand the evidence more with repeatable results
<Duolos> snap-l: I know what real science is and how the scientific method should be employed.  However, in the field of evolutionary science, they don't follow that method.
<snap-l> If I give you a phone, having never seen a phone before, and it rings, you'd tell me a phone is a device that makes sound
<nullspace> rick_h_: what kinda table saw do you have?
<snap-l> But, if I give someone else a phone, and they hit the button to pick up the call when it rings, they would say that it is a communication device
<Duolos> snap-l: Right... and if I hand you a bone, you'll tell me the original owner's daughter listened to Coldplay.
<snap-l> Duolos: Where do you find fault with Evolutionary science?
<brousch> you can tell a lot from a bone
<rick_h_> nullspace: cheap delta 10"
<Duolos> brousch: Oh, I'm sure you can.  But that's not an exaggeration of some of the crap I've read in scientific journals lol
<brousch> sometimes what the animal ate, how old it was, where it lived
<rick_h_> when I run it on 110 it pushed the 20a breaker
<Duolos> brousch: ...what it was thinking when it died?
<rick_h_> should be better on 220, but I haven't run any of that to the garage yet
<brousch> no
<Duolos> You can guess; you can't know.
<snap-l> Duolos: No, that's Psychics, not Physics. And Psychics is crap. ;)
<brousch> it's all educated guesses
<Duolos> snap-l: I have an issue with the way that most scientists go about interpreting the things they see.
<snap-l> Duolos: Example, please?
<brousch> well when you spend your life looking at the same sorts of things, you can get a pretty good idea of how a new one fits in
<brousch> there are car guys that can see the edge of a bumper on a car and know what make, model, and year it is
<Duolos> snap-l: Well, for example, and if you need the source it will take me a while to find it (read it several months ago)... scientists found a part of a hand bone and said that it indicated that early humans "may" have been more loving parents than originally thought
<Duolos> Their reasoning?  They found other bones nearby that were from a child, apparently.
<brousch> that sounds silly on the surface. did you read the whole article?
<Duolos> There's also an entire field devoted to "evolutionary psychology"
<Duolos> brousch: yeah, I did
<Duolos> brousch: they used the words "may," "could," and "might" a lot :)
<brousch> also is it really fair to throw out all of evolution because one scientist is extrapolating too much?
<Duolos> brousch: He asked for AN example, not all of them
<Duolos> How about the recent discovery that some species of frogs are growing teeth again.  Just like their ancient ancestors before evolution chose the teeth for removal?
<snap-l> Duolos: Have you heard of archaeology?
<Duolos> Sorry, I don't remember the name of the evolutionary law, but it basically states that once genetic information has been removed, it can not be added back.
<Wolfger> that's silly
<Duolos> These frogs are a direct contradiction of that law and the scientists called the frogs "the exception."
<snap-l> Duolos: Please give us the source. Right now you're just spouting conjecture.
<Wolfger> agreed
<Duolos> snap-l: Right now, you ASSUME I'm just spouting conjecture.
<Duolos> Give me a moment, I'll find the source for the frogs.
<snap-l> And you assume I'm not a tomato with conciousness
<jrwren> now I'm agreeing with Duolos
<brousch> so i "believe" in evolution because i think it's the current best explanation for what we see today. it hasn't explained everything, but it explains more than any other theory. when something more comprehensive comes along, i'll gladly "believe" it
<Duolos> snap-l: Is National Geographic a credible source in your eyes?
<snap-l> It'll do in a pinch
<Duolos> I need to ask before sourcing them because I know how people think when something challenges their beliefs lol
<Duolos> http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/02/110209-frogs-teeth-evolution-science/
<jrwren> evolution is bullshit. anunaki has been influencing our planet for mililions of years.
<jrwren> terraforming it.
<jrwren> not only did anunaki create man, but anunaki created EARTH!
<brousch> oh man, nationalgeographic set off my murdoch block
<Duolos> hahaha
<Duolos> how about the BBC?  They reported on it too
<Duolos> http://news.bbc.co.uk/earth/hi/earth_news/newsid_9365000/9365076.stm
<jrwren> just because you don't believe in a fact, doesn't mean that fact isn't still true.
<snap-l> Duolos: So, your point is that they found a "loophole" in what was previously considered a law?
<Duolos> Anyway, there are two examples
<Duolos> jrwren: wait, which "fact" do I not believe in?
<jrwren> evolution doesn't need you to believe in it.
<snap-l> Duolos: Congratulations, you're watching science in progress.
<jrwren> Duolos: that wasn't directed at you :)
<Duolos> jrwren: oh, sorry.  Figured I was ganged up on :)
<jrwren> Duolos: but the fact I'm thinking of... was... my lord adn savior, the prince of light. :p
<snap-l> Duolos: remember when they found the duckbilled platypus?
<jrwren> of course not.. he is too young for that.
<Duolos> snap-l: That's my point, though.  You can't trust anything they claim is fact because in a year or two, it won't be.
<jrwren> snap-l the old man :)
<snap-l> Previously unassailable laws that mammals don't have feathers were put to the test.
<Duolos> And yes, plenty of evolutionists claim it is irrefutable fact.
<snap-l> Duolos: I think you're mildly mistaken
<Duolos> snap-l: on?
<brousch> anyone who thinks they understand all of evolution is a fool
<brousch> ignore them and find smarter people
<snap-l> evolutionists can't be painted with such broad strokes much in the same way that Christianity can't be painted with broad strokes.
<Duolos> brousch: I don't know.  Richard Dawkins is a very smart guy...
<Wolfger> I cannot recall hearing any evolutionist saying that anything is irrefutable fact.
<jrwren> zomg.
<Duolos> Wolfger: Dawkins.  Hawking.
<jrwren> i hate richard dawkins.
<ColonelPanic001> and that's an irrefutable fact.
<jrwren> he is a fucking asshole. world would be better off without him.
<jrwren> i'm glad southpark tore him a new one.
<Duolos> some Chris guy... can't remember his last name.  Hitchenson, maybe?
<Wolfger> Duolos: ok, you're on. Show me where they said it.
<snap-l> So Dawkins is the spokesperson for Evoution, then?
<Duolos> oh good grief
<snap-l> I'm serious
<Duolos> this is why it's impossible to debate liberals lol
<Wolfger> omg, the subtitle of your article is "Mysterious re-evolution challenges evolutionary theory, scientists say."
<jrwren> well, yes... I think dawkins is a self-claiming spokes person for evolution.
<Wolfger> THEORY
<snap-l> That's like saying that Jimmy Swaggart is the spokesperson for Christianity.
<Wolfger> not fact
<Duolos> Did I say he was the spokesperson? Nope.  Did I say that the frog story was absolute proof against evolution?  Nope.
<snap-l> Duolos: WE'll debate anytime you're ready. :)
<jrwren> wtf does liberals have to do with anything? I have a very conservative view of science.
<Duolos> But you'll just twist everything I say
<snap-l> I'm not twisting it, I'm saying that you're cherrypicking.
<Duolos> snap-l: You're officially out lol
<jrwren> Wolfger: theories can be facts.  see the theory of gravity.
<Wolfger> <headdesk>
 * ColonelPanic001 is a supporter of Intelligent Falling.
<ColonelPanic001> Dawkins is an arrogant prick, but so am I, so I don't mind.
<Duolos> jrwren: Gravity isn't a fact.  We don't know there isn't SOMEWHERE that gravity isn't present :P
<snap-l> Duolos: Would it make you happier if someone said that Evolution is a body of scientific work in progress?
<Wolfger> jrwren: it's a "theory" because we don't understand exactly how it works
<snap-l> and that it's the prevailing scientific thought?
<jrwren> Duolos: zomg, that is the dumbest thign I've ever read.
<ColonelPanic001> nah, I've said dumber, I'm sure.
<Duolos> jrwren: uhm... you should read more?
<Wolfger> I love the way Duolos points to an article showing that a species has evolved in an unexpected way as an argument against believing in evolution....
<jrwren> Duolos: truth.
<snap-l> Wolfger: Well, you know, once you poke a hole in science, it flutters around the room expelling everything until it's just a limp shard of it's former self
<jrwren> imma throw you off a 20 story building... then we'll see if you think gravity is fact... or if you think at all.. MUHUWHAHAHAHAH   j/k of course.
<Duolos> Wolfger: bloody hell, man.  I was asked to show an article that is just one example of why I don't TRUST evolution or scientists.
<snap-l> then we can have our hovercars
<ColonelPanic001> you don't poke a hole in science by finding something unexpected, that *is* science.
<jrwren> ColonelPanic001: tada! you with the right prize.
<Duolos> wait
<Duolos> why I don't trust everything scientists tell me is true.
 * ColonelPanic001 wins. We can all go home now
<ColonelPanic001> nothing wrong with that
<ColonelPanic001> you shouldn't
<jrwren> i'm going home right now.
<Duolos> Have to clarify or suddenly I'll be pegged as believing the earth is flat
<snap-l> Duolos: Science is a process.
<jrwren> sick kid at shcool :(
<ColonelPanic001> that's also science
<Duolos> ...which it kind of is in Iowa
<snap-l> It's not a belief system.
<ColonelPanic001> the heart of science is saying "wtf you're full of crap, let me prove it"
<snap-l> It's like believing assembly lines.
<jrwren> evolution is an ever changing science. not a belief system.
<jrwren> i believe in yesterday.
<snap-l> I believe in nexterday.
<Duolos> jrwren: science, however, isn't supposed to "change."  It's supposed to be based on unchanging, and observable facts.
<Duolos> ...at least that's the science I grew up with.
<ColonelPanic001> pft
<ColonelPanic001> science always changes
<ColonelPanic001> otherwise we'd still be trying alchemy
<Wolfger> Duolos: so this new evidence (no facts have "changed" as you like to say) refutes a hypothesis proposed in 1893. And you now distrust science because some dude was wrong over 100 years ago?
<Duolos> NOW, however, it HAS to change to fit in with certain worldviews.
<snap-l> Duolos: Science is changing
<brousch> Duolos: then you had bad science teachers
<ColonelPanic001> no kidding
<snap-l> We used to believe that Mercury was safe. That was proven false
<Duolos> brousch: Actually, I did.  She got fired for getting students drunk and sleeping with them.
<Duolos> BUT... that's another story
<ColonelPanic001> haha
<jrwren> Duolos: you are wrong again. where did you get this crazy notion?
<ColonelPanic001> hell, all the major names in history of science are there because they changed our worldview - showed that we were wrong or just added to it
<jrwren> Duolos: science is a process. its use of the scientific method.  that doesn't change... the results from using the method IS SUPPOSED TO CHANGE.
<Duolos> Anyway, it's been fun.  Can't wait to meet you all over a beer :P
<jrwren> Duolos: you grew up with some fucked up science.
<snap-l> Duolos: Take it easy. :)
<Duolos> jrwren: And again... evolution changes the evidence to match the conclusion.
<Duolos> But... another time; I've got to run
<ColonelPanic001> I don't believe in beer. I'm faithful to Intelligent Inebriation.
<snap-l> Duolos: Looking forward to meeting you. :)
<jrwren> i'm not.
<brousch> They may teach you the current scientific best guess about something, but they should not tell you that it is absolutely correct and will always be correct. i think a failing of many scientists and teachers is to not emphasize that
<snap-l> Duolos: I was active in the GR BBS scene long ago
<ColonelPanic001> YOU'RE ALL TOO LATE
<Duolos> jrwren: I'll sit on the opposite end of the table from you :)
<Duolos> snap-l: As was I...
<snap-l> between 1989-1993
<Duolos> Yeah, early to mid 90s myself.
 * ColonelPanic001 scrolls back to see how this stuff all started
<brousch> of course the problem with telling people it's your best guess is that they have much less confidence in what you say
<snap-l> went by Permanent Waves back when. ;)
<Duolos> ColonelPanic001: Started when I got here and saw the word "vaccine" :P
<jrwren> Duolos: I've got some good reading for you between now and then: www.timecube.com
<snap-l> jrwren: JHC, God, no. :)
<ColonelPanic001> vaccines are a government conspiracy to implant us with tracking devices so we can be herded to Katy Perry concerts (the government is working for the RIAA)
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: Truth
<Duolos> ColonelPanic001: Doesn't surprise me.  I knew Katy Perry was just a pawn.
<Duolos> Anyway, off I go.  Tranquility may resume :) seeya
<snap-l> brousch: And this is why I can never return to West MI. ;)
<brousch> but you went to hope!
<snap-l> Oh, I'll visit, but man, living there would make my forehead veins pop. :)
<snap-l> Not to mention JoDee is about to explode. :)
<Wolfger> "you guys haven't said anything I can argue with, so I'll draw things up out of thin air that I can argue against, and oh btw I can't find my source on that right now"
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollo%27s_Law_of_Irreversibility
<snap-l> I should have pointed this out sooner.
<snap-l> "Dollo's law of irreversibility (also known as Dollo's law and Dollo's principle) is a hypothesis proposed in 1893[1] by French-born Belgian paleontologist Louis Dollo which states that evolution is not reversible."
<Wolfger> I also love the way he leapt to the conclusion we were all liberals because we believe in science...
<snap-l> Damn scientists for using the word "law" for "hypothesis"
<snap-l> Wolfger: Well, aren't we?
<Wolfger> snap-l: I did point that out earlier (paraphrased)
<snap-l> I know my Birkenstocks are just itching to be used.
<brousch> snap-l: we're getting better very slowly
 * snap-l notes that if anyone thinks for a second that I own any Birkenstocks, I'll go buy a pair to beat them to a bloody pulp, and then shove them into their orifices.
<brousch> yeah right. you keep them right next to your Apple keyboard
<snap-l> brousch: Oh, I'm sure, but it's definitely not prevalent.
<snap-l> I fear he may be one of the more calm ones. ;)
<snap-l> I've dealt with Young Republicans. ;)
<brousch> yes, he argued for a long time
<snap-l> and we both parted thinking the other side was crazy.
<snap-l> That's not terribly productive. ;)
<brousch> hopefully some of the insight got through to him, like science is not a static set of immutable laws, it's a process
<snap-l> Also, that anti-vaccine paper he was referring was so thoroughly discredited, I'm surprised it didn't ignite.
<jrwren> you realize "liberals" is just a code word for "non-born again christian jesus camp lovers"
<snap-l> jrwren: I thought it was code for "godless anarchists who want to take away our guns".
<snap-l> (No offense to the godless anarchists who want to take away our guns)
<brousch> some day i'll actually start Sunday Science so we have some place to go and socialize like the churchies
<jrwren> wait, gun control is in this too?
<snap-l> Also, Dawkins is smart, but he's not the spokesperson for athieism or evolutionary theory.
<jrwren> I'm all for using two hands, but any other gun control will not be tollerated
<Wolfger> snap-l: I don't want to take away your guns
<jrwren> i want to give everyone a gun.
<ColonelPanic001> I do. I don't have enough of my own
<Wolfger> jrwren++
<jrwren> ColonelPanic001++
<jrwren> i could use more guns.
<snap-l> jrwren: I think everyone should be given a box of rubberbands
 * ColonelPanic001 has no guns, probably never will, doesn't mind responsible reasonable gun owners
<brousch> ColonelPanic001++
<snap-l> I got to shoot guns on an outing at Chrysler.
<snap-l> Have no problem with folks being responsible gun owners
<Wolfger> I think guns should be taken away from people who can't pass simple science exams.
<ColonelPanic001> I do have a bat'leth, though...
<snap-l> funny thing is all of the years of playing gun-based video games made the real thing much easier to aim and hit targets.
<brousch> i have a Jo
<jrwren> rofl... i'm glad YOU didn't write teh second ammendment :)
<brousch> well it was written at a different time. pretty much everyone already had a gun for hunting and protecting themselves
<brousch> each family anyways
<ColonelPanic001> it's like it's debate day in here
<ColonelPanic001> Hey guys, how do you all like seat belts?
<brousch> i love them
<brousch> everyone should wear one all the time
<ColonelPanic001> I wear one while at my desk at work.
<snap-l> Next up: How science plans to take our guns and replace them with social programs.
<brousch> good man
<ColonelPanic001> science plans to take our guns and replace them with awesome rayguns
<jrwren> not just hunting and protecting themselves... dueling too. :)
<snap-l> Yes, duelling, the favored passtime of presidents, and noblemen everywhere.
<Wolfger> ColonelPanic001: seat belts are a good thing, and I'm happy they exist.
<snap-l> Wonder if it's still legal in some parts of the country to duel
<Wolfger> just don't ask me how I feel about fascist seat belt laws requiring people use them.
<ColonelPanic001> Everyone knows the Nazis gained power through required seat belt laws.
<brousch> but if you don't buckle up i could be killed by your body flying through my window
<Wolfger> if you do buckle up, I may die due to the slight increase to the mass of the collision
<Wolfger> I think either is equally likely
<ColonelPanic001> lol i might drown in a lake
<Wolfger> and see, we're still discussing evolution...
<ColonelPanic001> not using a seat belt does qualify as natural selection
<snap-l> States and territories which have statutory prohibitions on duelling for all citizens are Colorado,[49] District of Columbia,[50] Idaho,[51] Kentucky,[52] Massachusetts,[53] Michigan,[54] Mississippi,[55] Nevada,[56] New Mexico,[57] New York,[58] North Dakota,[59] Oklahoma,[60] Puerto Rico,[61] Rhode Island[62] and Utah.[63] California previously prohibited duelling, but this was repealed in 1994.[64]
<Wolfger> seat belt laws fight against evolution, by keeping bad genes in the pool
<snap-l> So, one more reason not to move to California
<Wolfger> one more reason to move to California!
<ColonelPanic001> heh
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duel
<brousch> you probably have to file paperwork beforehand
<snap-l> In San Francisco, you need a permit
<Wolfger> I'm curious what happened in 1994 to precipitate the repealing of that law...
<snap-l> followed by several town meetings, and a visit from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms.
<snap-l> Having a hard time finding chapter / verse for the repeal
<jrwren> seat belt laws and flouride in the water!
<jrwren> i'm surprised more gangsta's ain't into duelling in CA.  south central duel!
<Wolfger> what, a fight on fair terms? That's crazy talk.
<Wolfger> they all want to do drive-bys and surprise shootings
<snap-l> Duolos: wb. :)
<Duolos> ty
<Duolos> Can we just talk about linuxy things now?  I'm having a beer lol
<Wolfger> mmm... beer. I'm jealous
<snap-l> Me too
<snap-l> So, how about that Oneiric.
<jrwren> what kind of beer?
<Duolos> Hmm... trying to install a .deb but it's telling me I can't because it's 32-bit (I'm on Kubuntu 11.04 64-bit).  Any way around that?
<Duolos> jrwren: Miller Lite.  Cheap, tastes decent and gets the job done
<brousch> oh, you're a kde user?
<brousch> round 2!
<Duolos> brousch: Hey, nobody's perfect.
<brousch> j/k
<Duolos> I've always used gnome... just figured I'd try something new.
<Duolos> :)
<Duolos> Freedom FTW
<brousch> Duolos: you can try --force-architecture
<brousch> sudo dpkg -i --force-architecture your.deb
<Duolos> brousch: safe enough, I assume?
<brousch> i have no idea
<brousch> it worked for me on one program. that's all i know
<Duolos> well, if it goes pop! I'll know
<Duolos> Eh, no POP, but it did say no.
<Duolos> Thanks for the suggestion, though.
<brousch> did you install ia32?
<brousch> ia-32libs
<Duolos> brousch: of course no.  I assume I should?
<brousch> yeah
<brousch> then try to install it regular, and --force-architecture if that still fails
<Duolos> hmm... not seeing it in the repos
<Wolfger> jrwren: why do you need to start another fight? ;-)
<jrwren> ME???
<jrwren> I was just curious.
<Wolfger> LOL
<jrwren> I could go for a miller lite
<Wolfger> I'd drink anything right about now...
<snap-l> I need to get rid of the Arcadia Ales IPAs in my fridge.
<snap-l> MAybe do beer burgers or something
<Duolos> I have learned that no matter what beer I'm drinking, the asker will disapprove.  Friggin' hipsters lol
<brousch> Duolos: hm, it should be in there https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/amd64/ia32-libs
<Wolfger> snap-l: you on the Ocelot? What kernel is that running? I'm curious about the 3.1
<brousch> snap-l: i like beer brats
<snap-l> I'm not on it yet. Going to do a live disc to see how well it handles before committing.
<Duolos> brousch: ah.   You said ia-32libs.  I searched for all kinds of variants ;)
<snap-l> Wolfger: ^^
<snap-l> brousch: Oh, that gives me an idea.
<Duolos> brousch: but, it's already installed.
<brousch> well then i'm stuck
<brousch> what are you trying to install?
<Duolos> Amazon's stupid MP3 downloader.  Can't download my music from the cloud player without it.
<Duolos> But, they don't offer a 64-bit version, apparentlyu.
<Wolfger> Duolos: clamz
<jrwren> snap-l: i'll trade you arcadia ales IPA's for an Amiga 1000 :)
<Wolfger> not sure if it works now with the cloud drive... haven't tried it since that came out
<Duolos> Wolfger: And that works for their cloud player?
<snap-l> jrwren: Sure. Come on over.
<Duolos> ah
<snap-l> They're in the fridge.
<Duolos> Worth a shot, I guess.  Thanks.
<snap-l> Duolos: You can also use Banshee to download Amazon music purchases
 * Wolfger makes a note to try clamz out tonight
<snap-l> though I haven't tried with the cloud player.
<Duolos> snap-l: right, but they're not all purchases.  I think cloud player is probably a little too new for 3rd party support yet.
<Duolos> Only a month or two, I think.
<snap-l> Duolos: I'd put my money on Banshee or Amarok getting cloud drive support sooner than the others.
<Duolos> hmm... and as it's been ages since I've used linux, could someone please tell me how to increase the volume?  It's at 100% but a LOT quiter than my laptop has been capable of in the past.
<snap-l> Duolos: There's several volume controls
<snap-l> Main, and each application has a volume control
<Duolos> snap-l: right, but my main and application are at max.
<Duolos> Thought there'd be a way to increase the max volume
<snap-l> What laptop? and are you on KDE?
<Duolos> I have an HP G62-340US on KDE
<Duolos> The volume on this laptop was never the best, but better than it is at the moment.
<Duolos> ...with Altec Lansing speakers, you'd think they'd sound a little better
<Duolos> Maybe I should get Bose instead ;)
<snap-l> I <3 my JBLs (which are by the same company as Altec Lansing)
<Duolos> Honestly, I'm shocked at how quiet it is.  I honestly can't make out the words in the music if I sit back lol
<snap-l> Duolos: Did you check the connection? Might noy be plugged in all the way.
<Duolos> snap-l: built-in speakers
<Duolos> So no, I didn't check the connections
<Duolos> :P
<snap-l> Duolos: Oh, thought it might have been external speakers.
<Wolfger> kmixer?
<Wolfger> (or is it just kmix? I can't recall)
<Duolos> yeah... can't launch it.  No output in konsole either.
<Duolos> Linux rears it's ugly head again lol
<brousch> i blame kde
<brousch> blue-headed step-child
<Duolos> nah... always had issues with stuff just "not working" in gnome too
<Duolos> Surely an operator's error, I know.  But still.
<Duolos> I don't ALWAYS have time to diagnose and fix stuff :)
<brousch> there's always something broken or sub-optimal. that's the fun of it
 * Wolfger fights the urge to say the speakers just haven't evolved yet...
<Wolfger> XD
<ColonelPanic001> :P
<Duolos> Wolfger lost that fight.
<Duolos> Survival of the fittest claims another intellectual victim :)
<Wolfger> I like the way we use words to alter perceptions....
<Wolfger> article on the BART protests says the police are is "response gear". Looks like what has always been called "riot gear" to me....
<Wolfger> s/is/in/
<Duolos> They're not murderous aliens, they're the Civil Defense team :)
<jrwren> its why i still run win7 :)
<ColonelPanic001> jrwren runs windows 7 because police wear response gear and not riot gear
<Duolos> Isn't Microsoft up to their 9th iteration of Windows anyway?
<ColonelPanic001> they'll get it right eventually
<Duolos> 1.0, 2.0, 3.0, 95, NT, 98, ME, 2000, XP, Vista, 7... wait, that's 11
<Duolos> To their credit, XP and 7 are both excellent operating systems.
<Wolfger> uh????
<Duolos> Wolfger: I like Miller Lite...get off me.
<Wolfger> 7 is, xp most certainly is not
<ColonelPanic001> hah
<Duolos> Wolfger: Okay, not IS, but WAS
<Wolfger> must be the Miller talking
<jrwren> windows 7 is numbered based on NT releases, not the Windows 1,2,3,95... versions
<Wolfger> Windows has had 4 versions: Sucks, sucks less, sucks again, and finally-we-got-it-right
<Duolos> jrwren: ahhhh gotcha.  I never cared enough to research it.  Just figured this is NOT the 7th major version of Windows.
<Wolfger> xp being "sucks less"
<Duolos> Wolfger: Any operating system that ships with a puke green interface theme is awesome in my book!
<jrwren> XP was interesting.   no firewall in its release.. then a service pack with firewall, then a service pack with firewall on by default.
<Duolos> Personally, I miss GEOS :)
<Duolos> Can't believe the company actually still SELLS it...
<Duolos> Wait... should MS Bob be considered in the list of Microsoft OS's?
<Duolos> If so, Wolfger needs to add a WTF to his list.
<jrwren> i only ever used GEOS on a C64+4
<jrwren> I want to install Packard Bell Navigator as my shell
<Duolos> jrwren: ah.  I ran it in MS-DOS 3... my first exposure to AOL 1.0 :)
<Duolos> By the way... the volume issue... alsamixer fixed it.  My master was at 40
<brousch> Duolos: now you need to blog it so others can find your solution
<Duolos> brousch: nevermind.  running alsamixer may have increased the volume, but it made my laptop's physical volume controls completely non-responsive.
<Duolos> So in order to change the volume, I need to run alsamixer every time.  Ugh... so much more complicated than necessary lol
<Wolfger> Duolos: I think Bob is a myth invented just to make MS look worse than it already did.
<jrwren> you never saw bob?
<Duolos> Bob was such a happy fella!
<Duolos> I miss his puppy.
<snap-l> I clearly remember Microsoft Bob
<snap-l> it was the golden era of desktop metaphor when we pushed it way too far.
<snap-l> Good, if highly flawed, concept
<snap-l> I remember seeing a Magic Desk device and wondered who was smoking what when they came up with it.
<Duolos> I understood the concept of trying to relate everything in a computer to the real world, but they really didn't do it well.
<snap-l> I wonder if they might have more success now
<Duolos> I was about to say that they assumed everyone was too stupid to understand computers otherwise, but then I remembered I've done tech support.  They were right.
<snap-l> Though I think that's where a lot of designers are headed.
<jrwren> we need a better in-hand or palm-top metaphor :)
<Wolfger> woot-off mouse pads :-) http://www.woot.com/
<snap-l> I still have mousepads.
<snap-l> And I semi-collect mousepads.
<Wolfger> I would be all over that deal if it wasn't for the $5 s&h
<jrwren> remember when we were talking about give camp ann arbor last week or so?
<jrwren> I talked to the organizer, and he said he agrees...the FAQ is a turn off.
<jrwren> they are actually looking to use wordpress for nearly all their charities.
<jrwren> https://twitter.com/#!/mjeaton/status/103511891942440960
<snap-l> BTW: In case everyone else is working off of the same misguided notion that I had that there is more time before the global jam than there is:
<snap-l> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-michigan/1090/detail/
<jrwren> nope. 2 weeks.
<Wolfger> 2 weeks?
<Wolfger> I thought it was in September
<snap-l> And september is 2 weeks. :)
<brousch> i will not be attending
<jrwren> DateTime.Now
<Wolfger> holy carp
<snap-l> I thought there was more time. ;)
<Wolfger> September is only 2 weeks away!
<Wolfger> well, give or take 3 days
<snap-l> brousch: Are you planning a west-side shin-dig?
<brousch> no, i have a family thing
<snap-l> OK
<brousch> i sent out the call if anyone else wants to run it, but no one said anything
<snap-l> LMK if anyone over there gives the inkling that they might want to plan something
<brousch> jjesse is the most likely
<brousch> ptenhoopen is a suse-lover
<Wolfger> didn't greg-g move out west? Let him plan it. :-D
<snap-l> Heh
<brousch> actually we've never had a jam out here. i have always wandered over to the east side for it
<brousch> we only do release parties
<snap-l> No worries. Just tryin to update the wiki and schtuff.
<Wolfger> crack the whip, fearless leader
<snap-l> I really wish Team reports worked off the loco directory. :)
<snap-l> That would be so much nicer, frankly
<snap-l> set it, and walk away. ;)
<snap-l> Apparently Picasa is having some troubles.
<snap-l> Getting a 500 error
<jrwren> what do ya'll think of this?  http://www.thoughtworks.com/articles/technology-radar-july-2011
<snap-l> Initial thoughts: Who are these people, and why should I care?
<_stink_> i quickly got bored.
<snap-l> Second thought: Throw enough buzzwords in there, and you might get a bingo
<snap-l> Third thought: Looks like another group of people want to get in on the business-analyst snake-oil parade
<snap-l> "All too often caching is an afterthought used to address performance problems with a blanket approach and common cache lifetime. This leads to issues and workarounds. The âtime valueâ of information is inherently linked to the business purpose and hence needs to be captured at the same time as other requirements. We believe thoughtful caching should be addressed early in the project and not just treated as a last minute performance fi
<rick_h_> jrwren: I saw the original radar, thought it was cool
<snap-l> "All too often, brushing your teeth is regarded as an afterthough in your morning routine, but good oral hygiene is key to better health. Consider thoughtfully brushing your teeth every morning for at least three minutes".
<jrwren> rick_h_: this one?
<rick_h_> if only because I could hand it to my boss and go "look, these things I keep talking about are on here"
<rick_h_> I showed the actual radar pdf
<rick_h_> looking for the link
<jrwren> cool
<rick_h_> http://www.thoughtworks.com/sites/www.thoughtworks.com/files/files/thoughtworks-tech-radar-july-2011-us-color.pdf
<rick_h_> shared that with my boss, git moved to the adopt which I've worked the last year on getting into play
<rick_h_> node.js was in here somewhere
<rick_h_> db deployment automation was a good one
<rick_h_> devops
<rick_h_> anyway
<snap-l> I really don't like these trending papers.
<snap-l> Makes technology into a fad
<rick_h_> meh, but it helps the boss to see I'm not just saying we should check out this thing I just saw on /./hackerews/reddit
<rick_h_> /hackerews/hackernews
<snap-l> "Oh, look, Node.js just arrived on the carpet with a fab entourage of web socket APIs. Sweetie! over here!"
<rick_h_> if you want to change, have to sell it to the boss first
<snap-l> Right, I get that
<snap-l> I remember our CIO at Chrysler was on the cover of CIO magazine
<snap-l> She was dimmer than a failing 10 watt bulb when it came to tech
<snap-l> That's what these papers remind me of.
<rick_h_> at least this one isn't all EJB and etc
<snap-l> rick_h_: Oh, no doubt.
<rick_h_> it's got a heartbeat in real tech, see github, git, etc
<snap-l> Gartner is another one for publishing bullshit trending
<jrwren> snap-l: agreed.
<jrwren> but I also agree with rick_h_
<jrwren> you can point to it as something authoritative
<jrwren> and it comes from thoughtworks.
<snap-l> Yeah, I mean there's good reasons for these things to exist
<jrwren> one of the highest respected sources
<rick_h_> honestly, it's pretty. I don't know that my boss would point out thoughtworks
<snap-l> but they still irk me
<rick_h_> but the pdf is pretty :)
<brousch> what the ... firefox 6 is out?
<snap-l> brousch: Welcome to the abbreviated release cycles that everyone wanted. ;)
<brousch> they'll be at FF 10 by the end of the year
<snap-l> Yep. ;)
<snap-l> You can also blame Chrome for this.
<jrwren> look at teh changelog, its not TAHT interesting
<rick_h_> websockets back in, scratchpad/updated dev tools, and server hook api is about most of it
<jrwren> yup, none of that effects me AFAIK
<snap-l> How much of it affects you, though? ;)
<Blazeix> I think they added text-overflow:ellipsis support, which is nice
<Blazeix> at least they were supposed to, I haven't actually looked at the changelist
<rick_h_> I want to play with websockets at some point, and scratchpad will be cool for quickly doing some js code sharing with co-workers
<brousch> rick_h_: you're rubbing off on people
<brousch> my friend is threatening to chop off hands if people use raw sql in their code, and he says it's because of you
<rick_h_> awesome
<jrwren> damn shame.
<rick_h_> ssh jrwren
<rick_h_> hah, js unit tests, FF6 28s FF5 36s Chrome13 18s phantomjs 8s
<snap-l> heh
<jrwren> phantomjs?
<jrwren> rawsql in code is the right solution for a certain subset of problems.
<rick_h_> jrwren: true, and I had a slide for that
<rick_h_> http://www.phantomjs.org/
<rick_h_> headless webkit
<jrwren> awesome.
<jrwren> zomg, so awesome.
<rick_h_> yea, so can run my JS client side unit tests via command line and it's 2x as fast as running in chrome currently
<rick_h_> and 3x FF6
<snap-l> Updated the team reports to have the Ubuntu Hour / CHCs, and lococasts on them
<snap-l> If anyone has a blog post for the older release parties / jams, please feel free to add them. ;)
<rick_h_> go snap-l
<snap-l> These wiki pages are a real PITA>
<snap-l> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MichiganTeam/TeamReports
<snap-l> I know we have more release parties and what-not to report
<snap-l> Routing through the mailing lists, and noticing that the Monthly IRC Meeting was instituted in 2009
<brousch> i was putting them on our main wiki page
<brousch> the old moinmoin page
<brousch> i don't know where that went
<brousch> so i should go into the team reports and fill in crap that happened?
<snap-l> brousch: Yeah, anything you notice is missing
<snap-l> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MichiganTeam/TeamReports
<brousch> i swaer i did that once already. tell them to quit moving things
<snap-l> They very well might be there.
<brousch> yeah, mine are in there
<snap-l> OK, cool
<snap-l> Put out the call for anyone else who might have photos or recollection of what went on
<brousch> the flickr group is nice for photos
<snap-l> http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/pointofsale.html
<snap-l> I know what my next keyboard is. ;)
<TeamXlink> Anyone up for scrabble?
<TeamXlink> www.games.yahoo.com/lt
<TeamXlink> Another person and I are in the Social Lounge 8 we would like too play with at least 3 total people instead of just him and I.
<TeamXlink> Last call before we start the game.
<_stink_> i am going to murder AT&T
<snap-l> _stink_: Please don't.
<snap-l> I'm liking what I'm seeing of Oneiric thus far
<snap-l> seems slightly more stable on theUSB key.
<rick_h_> _stink_: what did they do to you?
<snap-l> http://askubuntu.com/questions/49348/how-do-i-set-a-theme-in-oneiric<- Seriously?
<snap-l> Also, can someone riddle me why Startup Applications gets a menu entry?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-08-17
<rick_h_> sweet, just got an email from someone doing the sqlalchemy homework from pyohio
<snap-l> Awesome!
<rick_h_> of course it's because I asked them to do an impossibly query, but still
<TeamXlink> Has anyone else noticed how Google Chrome opens up a new proccess for each tab?
<Wolfger> coffeetime!
<Wolfger> er, I mean, good morning!
<snap-l> Good morning
 * snap-l tired
<snap-l> But, on the plus side, I now know what we're doing Saturday Night.
<brousch> hot tub party?
<snap-l> TRUCK WARZ AT GIBRALTAR TRADE CENTER!
<snap-l> DOES YOUR TRUCK HAVE WHAT IT TAKES?
<snap-l> TRUCK WARZ TUG-O-WAR CONTEST AT 4PM
<snap-l> and BURNOUT CONTEST
<Duolos> G'mornin', happy people!
<snap-l> It's like it was tailor made for us.
<snap-l> http://www.gibraltartrade.com/bikenight.php <- Bike Night at Gibraltar
<snap-l> somewhat safe for work.
<brousch> i didn't know you were a gearhead
<snap-l> I'm not.
<snap-l> http://www.gibraltartrade.com/truckwarz.php
<snap-l> Not even remotely.
<snap-l> I'm just a fan of Gibraltar Trade Center, which is like a completely different world.
<brousch> So it's jodee that gets off on the powerful engines and shirtless beerbellies?
<snap-l> brousch: Oh, totally.
<snap-l> That's why she married Mr. Caliber driver. :)
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> http://www.gibraltartrade.com/cat.php?center=1
<snap-l> http://www.gibraltartrade.com/record
<brousch> geez
<brousch> that's a lot of stores
<snap-l> It's my go-to place to get a Velvet Elvis in a hurry.
<snap-l> Or a Scarface poster.
<brousch> or an oversized marijuana leaf blanket?
<snap-l> brousch: Or speaker cabinets for my car of dubious quality.
<snap-l> Also the home of the Fauch purse
<rick_h_> cool on the google doodle today: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/google/google-doodle/8706390/Pierre-de-Fermats-birthday-celebrated-in-Google-Doodle.html
<brousch> MURDOCH BLOCKED
<snap-l> Well lookie there. Firefox 6? Yes, please.
<snap-l> brousch: Eh?
<brousch> https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/moepiacmhnmbiilhpojodnaopndhddpg
<snap-l> Ah, that thing. :)
<Wolfger> cool Google doodle today: http://www.google.com/  <-- fixed that for rick_h_
<Wolfger> :-)
<rick_h_> sorry, I needed the cheat sheet to remember wtf it was
<rick_h_> I figured you all could find the doodle itself
<Wolfger> :-D
<snap-l> rick_h_: I needed the cheat sheet as well. ;)
<snap-l> I'm starting to formulate a post for Oneiric: Doubling Down on Dubious Design Decisions.
<Wolfger> oh boy
<Wolfger> is the ruckus going to be as bad as it was over the 11.04 changes?
<brousch> quintuple D?
<Wolfger> 5-D
<Wolfger> it's the next big thing in hollywood
<Wolfger> wait til you see what the glasses look like
<brousch> i was thinking more along the lines of cup size
<snap-l> Nah, I don't think it'll be nearly as bad
<Wolfger> brousch: are you implying the blogger is a big boob? ;-)
<snap-l> but I'd like to open some dialog with the designers on why they're doing what they're doing, and unfortunately this is the only forum I'm aware of for making such questions available.
<Wolfger> go ask in #ubuntu?
<snap-l> I think Apress doesn't quite understand their audience
<snap-l> Deal of the Day: Getting StartED with Windows 7 (inebook format)
<snap-l> If you need an book to get started with Windows 7, I'm sure making it available in eBook format isn't going to do you much good)
<snap-l> http://www.apress.com/9781430225034
<Wolfger> heh
<Wolfger> I sometimes wonder what the Founding Fathers would think of the modern world of communication. I mean, back then, "freedom of the press" basically was just freedom for anybody wealthy enough to own a printing press.
<Wolfger> In the modern world with laser printers, blogs, e-books, etc... literally anybody can publish anything.
<Wolfger> I wonder if the FF would be amazed or appalled.
<Wolfger> snap-l: that's pretty sleazy of LinkedIn...
<snap-l> Wolfger: Isn't it? :)
<snap-l> Looking to see if I can upgrade to Oneiric on my laptop
<snap-l> if you hear screaming and wailing and gnashing of teeth, you'll know why. ;)
<brousch> back up ur music
<snap-l> It's on another machie
<snap-l> but yes, I'm backing up my home dir on this machine
<snap-l> This is what rsync was made for. ;)
<rick_h_> wow, that good eh?
<rick_h_> going to update the live machine?
<brousch> snap-l is the bravest man i know
<snap-l> This is my laptop (CHC laptop)
<snap-l> so it's not my primary machine
<Wolfger> pansy
 * Wolfger goes alpha on his main box
<Wolfger> only box
<brousch> kubuntu alpha even
<brousch> ok, wolfer wins
<rick_h_> yea, but CHC is tonight
<rick_h_> brave man
<snap-l> And I figure I need to use it in order to talk about it
<Wolfger> true. and true.
<snap-l> Worst case, I'll bring a book. ;)
<rick_h_> lol
<Wolfger> so I know that if I have an IP like 53.236.50.255 with a gateway of 255.255.255.0, that is a broadcast address... but...
<Wolfger> if I have a gateway of 255.255.252.0, that should be an assignable address, yes? Or do we avoid it for the sake of standardization?
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enigma_Variations
<krondor> Wolfger:  I think that 53.236.50.255 would be assignable.  I think your broadcast address would be 53.236.51.255.
<krondor> 252 would give you 2 third octets basically to assign (excluding that last 255 for broadcast)
<Wolfger> 4, not 2, right?
<Wolfger> I'm on .49.x, .50.x, and .51.x for sure... not sure if I get .48.x or .52.x
<Wolfger> 255.255.254.0 would give me 2
<Wolfger> I was just wondering if I should be annoyed that while I'm configuring these addresses, that the person assigning IP's skipped 53.236.50.255 for no good reason that I know of. :-)
<krondor> you're right woops.. you'll get 48,50,51 up to 255
<Wolfger> ok, thanks for confirming my belief
<Wolfger> it's been too long since I actively practiced my network knowledge
<jrwren> holy shit, my linux-fu is weak... exim just kicked my ass and I gave up!
<rick_h_> heh, well it is email
<rick_h_> and email is always on the hard end
<jrwren> i used to be an email administrator.
<jrwren> and I still run postfix for xmtp.net
<jrwren> postfix makes things easier.
<jrwren> not easy, but easier.
<krondor> I've always been a fan of postfix
<rick_h_> yea +1
<jrwren> i just haven't lost at anything linux in a long time.
<jrwren> i want to do something, i go read the docs, adn I do it.
<jrwren> i guess I can say "if i don't fail, i'm not trying hard enough" as a positive.
<jrwren> but man this sucks.
<rick_h_> given enough time you could do it
<rick_h_> just a matter of "not worth time"
<brousch> email is a pain. that's why i let google handle it
<jrwren> indeed.
<jrwren> cursed time.
<jrwren> keeps on slippin
<snap-l> Seriously, unless you have a really good reason to use exim, I'd stick with postfix
<snap-l> really good reasons include: running high-volume mail servers
<snap-l> where high volume > 100 messages per second.
<snap-l> Otherwise, postfix should more thanhandle what you might need.
<krondor> even then there is some nice tuning that can be done in postfix for high volume http://www.postfix.org/TUNING_README.html
<snap-l> riddle me this: http://soundcloud.com/daniel-a-solis/the-no-nos-of-game-design
<snap-l> Is there a way to download this track, or is soundcloud essentially scribd for audio files.
<Wolfger> dunno... blocked by firewall :-p
<brousch> <div class="hidden download-options action-overlay" data-sc-track="21074366"><div class="action-overlay-inner">This track is not downloadable</div></div>
<snap-l> Sent a note to the author to rectify
<nullspace> home workbench nearing completion http://se7enlabs.org/bench.jpg
<snap-l> nullspace: Nice.
<brousch> http://media.soundcloud.com/stream/CjgkS1tij2jU?stream_token=cX6Fn
<brousch> then you can save the page as mp3
<snap-l> brousch: Thanks!
<brousch> ima 1337 h4x0r d00d
<nullspace> the more carpentry I do the closer I get to not sucking
<brousch> i can build things out of wood. functional, massive things. but i cannot build pretty things
<nullspace> I need more practice with a nail gun
<nullspace> I found a drywall square and a pencil help with limiting erronus nails
<jrwren> nullspace: it hangs? it has no legs!
 * jrwren sings the no legs song like Eddy Murphy in Trading Places
<rick_h_> nullspace: that's not a bench, this is a bench: https://picasaweb.google.com/112719704219936118281/Workbench#5383914169412338882
<rick_h_> cool on the new workspace
<jrwren> um....   I think the cost in wood alone there doesn't make them comparable.
<rick_h_> ash is cheap these days :)
<jrwren> fiber board v. solid wood
<jrwren> is it?
<rick_h_> yea, all the ash borer
<nullspace> rick_h_: I'm getting a 500 from that link
<rick_h_> but yea, $150 in word and aonther $150 for vice/leg bolt hardware
<rick_h_> nullspace: hmm https://picasaweb.google.com/112719704219936118281/Workbench#5383914164986943266
<rick_h_> http://uploads.mitechie.com/workbench.jpg
<nullspace> nice
<rick_h_> that should work
<rick_h_> just kidding though, too much "that's not a knife, this is a knife" as a kid
<nullspace> what's the dimensions?
<brousch> i would take a picture of mine, but it would take approx 3 days to dig it out from under all the other garage stuff
<nullspace> I'm 3'x8'
<snap-l> I trust Ikea to do all of my carpenteering. ;)
<nullspace> ahem my bench is 3'x8'
<rick_h_> 76 x 23 I think
<rick_h_> 3'? that's deep
<nullspace> I can easily reach across it
<nullspace> figured I'd get as much bench as it was comfortable for me
<brousch> it's not the size of the bench that matters. when we were house-hunting we went through a house full of beautiful wood work, which the owner had done himself. the house had no garage and his workspace was a 5ftx5ft area tucked behind the furnace
<nullspace> but I can take a nap on mine
<brousch> ah, now the real reason for a workbench comes out ;)
<snap-l> and when nullspace pissess off Mrs. nullspace, he'll have an option besides the couch for sleeping arrangements. ;)
<nullspace> nah, I just like lots of work space realestate
<jrwren> nullspace has those LONG ARMS for reaching across
<snap-l> About 9 minutes left of package downloads.
<jrwren> i just don't see nullspace pissing off mrs. nullspace. Maybe I've not spent enough time around 'em.
<snap-l> Then comes the fun part... installing the packages.
<jrwren> snap-l: packages?
<snap-l> Oneiric upgrade
<jrwren> upgrade?!?  yow!
<jrwren> its kinda early isn't it?
<snap-l> Alpha 3
<jrwren> i'm afraid to upgrade
<snap-l> Well, I'm looking to try to help stem the tide
<snap-l> and hopefully get some fixed shit (like my wireless card)
<snap-l> http://eclipsephase.com/panopticon-street-date-announced-preview-2-and-three-electronic-releases-tomorrow <- Can't wait for this to release as PDF.
<snap-l> https://twitter.com/#!/VanL/statuses/103849174990209024
<jrwren> snap-l: is that art?
<snap-l> jrwren: Which one?
<jrwren> panopticon
<snap-l> That's the art for the book
<snap-l> and they have a hack pack which shold have larger versions
<snap-l> so you can have an uplifted octopus getting attacked by a monkey as your desktop
<snap-l> About 29 minutes remaining on the upgrade
<snap-l> http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2011/08/best-buy-wants-to-give-up-on-hp-touchpad-has-sold-fewer-than-25000-units.ars
<snap-l> And thus was heard another nail in the Palm coffin
<rick_h_> sigh
<snap-l> I think Palm's WebOS has a brighter future in multi-function printers than in Tablets / Mobile.
<rick_h_> so now my only hope is for htc to get pissed, license webos, and ditch android
<rick_h_> if the damn thing just came out on good hardware it's be more popular
<rick_h_> pre3 announced almost a year ago
<rick_h_> just not hitting uk, us to come later *sigh*
<snap-l> Unfortunately, WebOS is much like the Foleo: usurped by everything else that came afterward
<snap-l> Foleo: Neat idea, but netbook market quickly quashed it
<snap-l> Neato, apport couldn't be installed.
<rick_h_> still can't get a decent real keyboard on an android/iphone
<rick_h_> no touchstone
<snap-l> Awesome, someone goofed the install script.
<rick_h_> oops
<snap-l> Java cacerts also looks goofed up
<snap-l> Banshee is the default media player? Oh this should be fun.
<rick_h_> thought it was last release
<snap-l> replaces totem as the default instead of totem
<snap-l> Wow, I fail English
<Wolfger> :-)
<Wolfger> yes, you do
<snap-l> BTW: The next time you use Musicbrainz, please thank them.
<snap-l> I've imported some entries from FreeDB into Musicbrainz, and the best I can say of FreeDB is "God-awful".
<snap-l> Ludwig van Bethoven
<Wolfger> s/e/ee/
<snap-l> And here's the problem with apport
<snap-l> def add_info(report, ui):
<snap-l>     add_installation_log(report, 'UbiquitySyslog', 'syslog')
<snap-l>     syslog = report['UbiquitySyslog']
<snap-l>     if 'Buffer I/O error on device' in syslog:
<snap-l>         if not re.search('Attached .* CD-ROM (\w+)', syslog):
<snap-l>             continue
<snap-l> Apparently someone fails at Python
<snap-l> Fucking piece of shit
<snap-l> replaced continue with return, and now things appear happier.
<snap-l> Going to attempt a reboot on this machine now.
<_stink_> does python even let you have continue outside the context of a loop?
<snap-l> Oh, even better, this No, which is why this crashed.
<_stink_> ah, ok, phew
<snap-l> Oh don't worry, it's still fucked.
<_stink_> heh
<snap-l> I swear, I don't know why I even trust upgrades anymore.
<brousch> because you love the pain
<ColonelPanic001> ubuntu upgrades? I just reformat and install, usually
<brousch> the same reason you wear wool panties
<ColonelPanic001> or backup and assume I'll probably do that anyway
<brousch> you're not happy without an itch to scratch
<snap-l> Hey, and my machine is slower than it was before
<snap-l> miracle of miracles.
<brousch> hm, i think i can get a slogan out of that
<snap-l> I can think of one too
<brousch> You use Linux for the same reason you wear wool undies. You're not happy without an itch to scratch.
<brousch> i'm tweeting it
<snap-l> Going to see if the package update fixes shit
<snap-l> and if it doesn't, going to try a re-install
<jrwren> i've upgraded successfully since 2005. I never reinstall.
<snap-l> jrwren: Might I recommend a change in strategy should you upgrade to any of the 11.x series.
<snap-l> I think the settings daemon is kerfuckled.
<snap-l> Yep, it's fucked.
<snap-l> HOO-FUCKING-RAY
<jrwren> 11.04 was fine.
<jrwren> 11.10, i shall see.
<Wolfger> snap-l: ++ on the new word in my dictionary
<brousch> it helps if you wait 2 months after release
<snap-l> Well, this is entertaining.
<rick_h_> snap-l: ok, so we started with 'brave' we now reffer to you as *#$@#'d
<snap-l> Interesting how that works, isn't it? :)
<snap-l> Going to try UNity 2D
<snap-l> Also, whomever thought removing the CTRL-ALT-BACKSPACE combo was a nifty keen idea? FUCK YOU IN THE FUCKING NECK!
<brousch> how do you fuck someone in the neck?
<_stink_> i can think of two ways
<snap-l> And now I'm Unity 2d, or as I like to call it: Ubuntu Tinkertoy edition
<Wolfger> _stink_: two? I'm frightened
<_stink_> already wrote them into the trashy romance novel i'm writing
<Wolfger> I'm afraid to even inquire as to what the second way is. I mean, the tracheotomy route is obvious...
<_stink_> you'll have to buy the book!
<snap-l> Well, that was loaded with fail.
<brousch> is it about a parapalegic women who can only move her head?
<snap-l> Can't wait for what sorts of nonsense the LTS will unleash
<_stink_> yes
<snap-l> It's funny, my dad is looking to get a new laptop
<snap-l> and he really wants to put Ubuntu on it as the primary OS.
<rick_h_> snap-l: did you see? http://twitter.com/#!/pumpichank/status/103581250064887808
<rick_h_> you mention ati in your G+ post
<snap-l> and I get a sick feeling in my stomach because he hasn't seen Natty yet.
<snap-l> Experienced it first-hand.
<rick_h_> ok, I guess I mean did you see it BEFORE you went installing/upgrading/etc
<rick_h_> and did you expect a different result?
<snap-l> rick_h_: Why would I let a fool thing like that get in the way? ;)
<rick_h_> lol, ok just checking
<snap-l> I didn't internalize it when I saw it initially, but yes, I'm remembering now.
<snap-l> Reinstalling Natty now.
<brousch> snap-l: just give him 10.04
<snap-l> brousch: at some point 10.04 isn't going to cut it anymore.
<brousch> yeah, in 2013
<brousch> by then natty should be sorted out or dead
<brousch> unity i mean
<snap-l> I'm not so certain anymore
<snap-l> OK< this is horseshit.
<snap-l> reinstalling natty locked up
<snap-l> I'll give you three guesses why more developers are showing up at conferences with Macintosh machines.
<brousch> ubuntu had a good showing at pyohio
<brousch> more than last year
<brousch> but the natty on projector gymnastics was painful to watch
 * Wolfger looks into getting a macbook
<Wolfger> no, that's crazy talk
<brousch> i'll sell you mine for $950
<snap-l> http://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/2008/06/evolution-of-ubuntu-user.html
<Blazeix> don't leave linux just because of ubuntu :(
<snap-l> I think it's just time I admit it... I use Ubuntu because I'm too cheap to buy a mac. :)
<Blazeix> er, hell, just use ubuntu alternate + xfce
<snap-l> Tried XFCE, and it's a little painful to use
<rick_h_> snap-l: you intentionally installed a alpha release and it borked on you and now you're linux hating?
<jrwren> i shouldn't have read the scrollback... because I jsut thought of 4 ways
<Blazeix> I think the linux hating is natty messing up
<snap-l> rick_h_: No
<rick_h_> ok, nvm then, carry on with the hating
<jrwren> use openbsd!
<Blazeix> snap-l: yeah, I chose xfce because you're a unity user. obviously you should switch to a tiling wm
<snap-l> I'm just getting cranky with the direction that things are heading
<snap-l> And I'm feeling powerless to change the direction
<brousch> snap-l: kubuntu is still there!
<brousch> but i feel your pain, which is why i'm on 10.04
<snap-l> Well, and worse, we're relying on third party developers to make good graphics drivers
<snap-l> and that's not happening
<snap-l> And I'm sorry, but Unity 2D is not the same.
<snap-l> Sorry, getting frustrated.
<jrwren> Windows starter edition is cheap *snicker*
<Wolfger> Free with the purchase of a new laptop...
<Blazeix> actually, is Gnome 3 / Gnome Shell available for Ubuntu? That might scratch your itch for something different.
<Blazeix> might end up making you more cranky, though...
<jrwren> unity is gnome3 just with a custom panel, right?
<Blazeix> oh, i thought it was completely different
<Blazeix> afaik gnome3 = gtk3, unity = gtk2, for one thing
<brousch> i thought regular gnome3 was going to be available for 11.10
<brousch> but it's as big a change as unity
<Blazeix> I heard plans of rewriting unity as a gnome 3 extension, at some point
<brousch> snap-l: have you seen this?http://dvice.com/archives/2011/08/worlds-fastest-8.php
<rick_h_> awesome
<nullspace> are we hating on unity and gnome 3.0?
<Blazeix> actually, I think the hate is for general bugginess in installation processes.
<brousch> i thought we were complaining about unstable alpha releases
<snap-l> My hate is for a stack that has weak links like proprietary drivers.
<brousch> ubuntu alphas should be as stable as google betas
<nullspace> talking to a guy who has a blacklisted gpu, seriously blacklisted?
<snap-l> Nothing more beautiful than watching rsync overload a framebuffer.
<jjesse> my update this morning blew up my VM good thing nothing serious was on it
<_stink_> just got this text from my mom: "We have IT guys here working on our phones. It's amazing how creepy some IT guys look!"
<_stink_> my response: "They make us put creepy costumes on before work. That, or it's evidence that most IT guys live in their parents' basement."
<rick_h_> grumble, no luck tuning any channels with this tv tuner stick/antenna
<rick_h_> even sitting outside o nthe upstair deck
<jrwren> :(
<jrwren> how far are you?
<jrwren> Clarkston is only like 40 miles.
<jrwren> I think I'm probably about the same.
<rick_h_> this site says 20ish miles from towers
<rick_h_> antennsa says it should work 35mi
<rick_h_> might have to go up an antenna level
<rick_h_> I'll try it at CHC tonight, will bring me close by
<rick_h_> if it works there, then I know it's just antenna reach I guess
<rick_h_> ugh, so close to getting cable cut
<jrwren> i cut mine.
<jrwren> do you use cable modem?
<jrwren> comcast still sends local stations down the analog cable if you have a cable modem, so you will have local channels.
<rick_h_> I'm on uverse rightnow
<jrwren> ah, nope. bummer
<rick_h_> so use their net connection with cable package
<jrwren> they might too, i just don't know.
<rick_h_> ah yea
<rick_h_> I want to get the antenna thing to work, seems like I should be able to easy enough
<rick_h_> but then again, nothing's as easy as it seems
<snap-l> btw: glad I backed up this machine prior to install
<rick_h_> :)
<snap-l> because I was seriously going to not do it, but better safe than sorrt.
<snap-l> Fuck.
<Blazeix> uhoh
<snap-l> Not sure how I managed, but apparently I installed i686 instead of amd64
<snap-l> and a-reinstall we go
<snap-l> closer to just bringing a damn book and being done with it for today. ;)
<snap-l> Anyone want to roll up some characters for CHC D&D?
<brousch> ug, i just poked at kubuntu for an hour. i have a headache
<brousch> i can't believe people use it every day
<snap-l> They say the same about GNOME
<snap-l> but yeah, having mouseovers the size of trees is not my idea of fun
<brousch> it's like they took win7 and said 'how can we make this uglier and more annoying?'
<jjesse> kubuntu?
<jjesse> really gave you a headache?
<krondor> brousch:  It's been awhile since I played in Kubuntu but in the past I never understood why they themed KDE the way they did.
<brousch> it's very "what can we do" and not "what should we do"
<brousch> sure you can make everything fade and slide and transparent, but you really shouldn't
<brousch> i suppose unity is going the same route
<krondor> maybe you just don't like the future ;)
<snap-l> I can agree to that.
<Blazeix> I think most terrible flashy desktops I've seen have been gnome, though. Courtesy of compiz/beryl
<brousch> Blazeix: i never turn on compiz
<snap-l> Blazeix: Yes, compiz can make a usability disaster
<snap-l> but Kubuntu ships as one.
<brousch> i used it for about 18 months back around 2007. i swear it wasn't this annoying back then
<jrwren> snap-l: wait... ubuntu let you upgrade amd64 to i686 ?
<jrwren> wobbly windows!
<snap-l> jrwren: No, I installed the wrong version when I reinstalled
<snap-l> I have a directory of iso images, and I must've selected the wrong one.
<snap-l> Should I be worried that JoDee is reading up on the Wikipedia articke on the Jewish tradition surrounding Lillith? :)
<snap-l> rick_h_: ping
<snap-l> http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/17/us-tmobile-att-lawsuits-idUSTRE77G59020110817
<snap-l> Seriously?
<rick_h_> snap-l: pong
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-08-18
<rick_h_> brousch: Have him search Monster for "Network Administration Brighton". All of the info is there from what I've been told. Thanks for passing it along.
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h_> sucky morning
<rick_h_> :)
<snap-l> Blergh. Have to take the trash out in this weather.
<snap-l> On the plus side, there is a bunny outside
<rick_h_> crabby, stupid client morons
<rick_h_> "how could we make this comlpetely worse and ask them to revert back to at least 3 things they originally had but we said we didn't like?"
<snap-l> rick_h_: I take it they're being quite creative. ;)
<brousch> manning deal of the day: half off http://www.manning.com/ceder/
<snap-l> brousch: It's not that good
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, they're trying very hard to piss me off. We had 6 "mockups" colored "make this crap"
<rick_h_> so I did, not 4th set of a dozen or more changes since then
<rick_h_> some backtracking on earlier items, every one of them making it more of an ass project than before
<snap-l> I picked it up. Unless you really don't know Python, it's not going to get you too far.
<brousch> ok
<rick_h_> I was more interestinged in oreilly's deal
<brousch> i haven't gotten that far
<rick_h_> but realized I want it on my web kindle reader and nothing I buy out of the kindle store can show up :(
<snap-l> brousch: Have you installed Python?
<rick_h_> which is another @#$@#% point of the day
<brousch> indeed i have
<rick_h_> brousch: tons of better books
<brousch> though i have not compiled it
<snap-l> That's part 1
<rick_h_> oh, and NC dude strikes again
<rick_h_> with a freaking book in IM this morning yay
<snap-l> rick_h_: "Why testing is hard, so I've decided to go shopping instead", by NC dude.
<rick_h_> "Designing code is hard so I'd rather just rewrite every app over and over vs put forth the effort to the fruitless task of making a decently flexible system"
<rick_h_> or there abouts
<snap-l> Rewriting vs. Repeating Code - Why I Repeat Myself Repeatedly Repeating My Repeating Code Repeatedly"
<rick_h_> only he took 358 words to get to it
<snap-l> rick_h_: Oh that's awesome.
<rick_h_> according to wc :)
<snap-l> Maybe he could beat his computer into a typewriter and take up freelance?
<nullspace> rick_h_: I feel like I'm out of the loop, who is NC dude?
<rick_h_> nullspace: you won't understand, you've missed half the effect by having the history
<snap-l> nullspace: NC dude is Rick's Lex Luthor programming co-worker
<brousch> no, lex luthor is a genius
<brousch> it's his solomon grundy
<nullspace> rick_h_: have you tried running an exploit against his box, get reverse shell and then rm -rf /usr ?
<brousch> does he run linux?
<snap-l> where rick_h_ stands for consistency, repeatable results, testing, and optimization, NC dude stands for lazy development, repeating code, and 2 hour non-productive bug fixing sessions that could have been handled via build servers.
<brousch> i thought NC guy was the windows user
<rick_h_> he's sinced gone dual boot
<nullspace> repeating code? as in he copy pastes the same thing
<snap-l> Honestly, if I was doing Linux / Windows, I'd use a VM at this point
<snap-l> Dual Boot = wasted time being in the wrong system.
<rick_h_> it is NC dude
<snap-l> rick_h_: Ah, now I understand.
<snap-l> "Yeah, I know that vim is awesome, but I don't have vim in Windows, so I'll have to boot into Linux when I get done with my Daily Show viewing in Windows"
<snap-l> Bah, Borders is now 40-60% off.
<nullspace> snap-l: what the company, a branch or are we talking books
<snap-l> nullspace: Welcome to 2011. :)
<snap-l> Borders Books is closing all of their stores.
<snap-l> so everything is being liquidated. They're now at 40-60% off of everything in the store
<nullspace> so amazon prices?
<snap-l> nullspace: Yes, but shipped directly to the store for easy pickup.
<snap-l> And if you can find a book / CD that's 40% off of retail on Amazon, please feel free. :)
<snap-l> mostly they're 33%
<Wolfger> snap-l: http://goo.gl/M7Ntt
<Wolfger> by my math, that's 45% off
<snap-l> And if you're not a prime member, you get to factor in shipping. ;)
<nullspace> and now I''m distracted by Bosch's l-boxx modular storage systems
<Wolfger> super saver free shipping, for the patient
<Wolfger> and no sales tax
<Wolfger> Amazon Prime is a tax on the impatient.
<snap-l> Wolfger: Yes. :)
<snap-l> nullspace: stackable toolboxes aren't that distracting. :)
<nullspace> snap-l: I disagree
<snap-l> Just be done with it and get a rolling toolchest. ;)
<snap-l> http://www.craftsman.com/shc/s/p_10155_12602_00981337000P?vName=Storage+%26+Garage&cName=Tool+Storage&sName=Chests&prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=L1
<snap-l> Also, craftsman's site sucks
<nullspace> snap-l: most corporate sites suck, welcome to 2011 :)
<Wolfger> touche
<Wolfger> on the other hand, that's hardly new to 2011...
<nullspace> well it seems that it has become common place in 2011, either that or I'm just now seeing all the horror
<snap-l> I think you're just more sensitive to it, having not been aware of it most of 2011. ;)
<snap-l> Welcome to 2011. ;)
<nullspace> well I have been spending a lot of time working on the house and avoiding popular culture
<Wolfger> zomg, you've been avoiding pop culture? How can you live without (uh, somebody help me out here, who's a current pop icon?)
<snap-l> Menudo
<brousch> justin beeper?
<Wolfger> rofl @snap-l
<snap-l> Shawn Cassidy
<brousch> menudo is back?
<brousch> awesome
<snap-l> brousch: Yeah, along with Dynamite Magazine
<Wolfger> dyn-o-mite!
<Wolfger> that's it... snap-l's new nick is Rerun.
<Wolfger> :-D
<snap-l> Nah, I'm Roj
<snap-l> Wolfger: You can be Rerun, and nullspace can be Duane
<snap-l> now we need Shirley, Ma, and the kid sister.
<snap-l> http://pygame.org/docs/ref/examples.html#pygame.examples.midi.main
<snap-l> Mmm... maybe I can write my Glassblower application after all
<snap-l> (Glassblower being my interpretation of Philip Glass as done by computer)
<Wolfger> snap-l: sorry... Rerun is the only name I could remember off the top of my head :-)
<nullspace> Wolfger: who is Duane?
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What's_Happening!!#Principal_cast
<snap-l> Dwayne, sorry.
<Wolfger> nullspace: Damned kid... get off our lawns.
<nullspace> Wolfger: you realize I have my lawn
<nullspace> my own lawn, sorry it's still kinda early
<Wolfger> I don't think you had your own lawn last time I visited you, so no. :-p
<nullspace> pretty sure that's not how it works
<Wolfger> ?
<Wolfger> how does realization work then?
<nullspace> hmm maybe I didn't tell your
<nullspace> you
<Wolfger> so you have your own lawn? Congrats!
<Wolfger> Want mine too? I hate mowing it.
<nullspace> I should just go back to my javascript, I seem to be doing a lot better with that language than english currently
<nullspace> Wolfger: mine is > 1/3 of an acre
<Wolfger> Then again, my dogs would not be happy if I didn't have it...
<snap-l> Wolfger: You could teach them how to use the potty.
<nullspace> not much if you ask me
<Wolfger> snap-l: I have 3 that would be pretty easy to litter-box train, and one that could easily sit on a toilet... though I don't think I want either of those things.
<nullspace> I just pictured a great dane on the pot, ha
<nullspace> http://img.skitch.com/20080807-8t49gh9g9pi5iymnd49piiiuw1.jpg
<Wolfger> Yeah. And unless I could teach her to flush... no thank you.
<nullspace> Wolfger: motion sensor!
<Wolfger> nullspace: good point
<Duolos> Anyone here use Eclipse, by chance?
<brousch> occasionally
<Duolos> brousch: Just curious because I can't get it to display my code properly.
<Duolos> #ubuntu kicked me out, basically, because I'm using the newest version lol
<brousch> i've only used it for python
<Duolos> ah okay.  I'm using java
<Duolos> Just seems like it's missing fonts.  Just displays empty boxes instead of the actual characters.  But only for parts of the code.  Very strange.
<Duolos> And, according to Google, no one else has ever had this issue.
<brousch> you have sun java installed, or the default opencrap java?
<Duolos> No, Sun Java.  Not going to use OpenJDK for Android development :)
<snap-l> Duolos: I've used Eclipse, but only under Maverick, and under extreme duress.
<snap-l> Duolos: Are you perchance using Unicode in your code?
<Duolos> snap-l: I haven't even gotten to the point of typing any code.  Just looking at the code that Eclipse generates when starting a new project.
<snap-l> And is it repeatedly showing the same blocks as hidden, or different blocks?
<Duolos> snap-l: It appears as though it's just the variables (color-coded blue).
<Duolos> values, rather
<snap-l> Would you take a screenshot of what you're seeing?
<Duolos> http://s891.photobucket.com/albums/ac115/nrossin81/?action=view&current=snapshot1.png
<Duolos> ...and if you know of a better, easier place to post screenshots, PLEASE let me know lol
<snap-l> Heh. :)
<Wolfger> Duolos: my Google says differently? Or is you problem unlike this: http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php/m/520247/
<snap-l> I use Ubuntu One, but that has varying degrees of success.
<snap-l> Wolfger: On the surface that looks similar.
<snap-l> and of course, no answers.
<Duolos> Wolfger: Fairly similar.  Except that tells about the entire interface being messed up.  My interface is fine, it's just part of the code.
<Wolfger> of course
<_stink_> sure does look like a font thing.
<snap-l> Duolos: You're not using Hebrew, are you? :)
<Duolos> Greek and Aramaic, actually
<Duolos> ;)
<brousch> Duolos: how did you install eclipse?
<snap-l> http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php?t=msg&th=203659&start=0&S=46d79d739b260b4e24e4127a10392656
<Duolos> brousch: That's the new version, just extracted.  I'm currently downloading the older version from the repos to see if that does it too
<snap-l> Duolos: You might have downloaded a different language version by mistake?
<brousch> so you downloaded it, extracted it to your homedir, and are running it from there?
<Wolfger> Duolos: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6629225/source-code-shows-as-rectangles-instead-of-charactars
<snap-l> That's the only thing I can think of that might cause that
<Duolos> brousch: correct
<brousch> good. the one in the repos is worthless
<nullspace> rick_h_: have you see this guys show? http://www.djmarks.com/woodworks.asp
<Duolos> brousch: #ubuntu wouldn't even discuss Eclipse unless I was using Galileo lol
<snap-l> Wolfger: Good find. That might be the cause.
<snap-l> Duolos: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6629225/source-code-shows-as-rectangles-instead-of-charactars/6953954#6953954
<snap-l> Worst case, you'll get a lot of fonts you don't need.
<snap-l> Best case, it'll solve the problem.
<rick_h_> nullspace: yea, seen them all
<rick_h_> he's pretty famous in the woodworkers circles for sure
<Duolos> snap-l: ahhh... looks to be it
<brousch> missing fonts makes sense. i mean, how thoroughly can eclipse be tested on a new kubuntu install?
<snap-l> wtf? Why is that including postfix?
<snap-l> Duolos: Be careful with those lines
<snap-l> I'd start with sudo apt-get install ttf-mscorefonts-installer
<Duolos> snap-l: Oh, I'll read them first lol
<Duolos> And probably install them one at a time.
<snap-l> Yeah, there's a bunch of crap in there that doesn't make any sense.
<Wolfger> my Google-fu is mighty. :-)
<Duolos> Looks like he just installed ttf*
<Duolos> :)
<Duolos> Wolfger: I guess I used the wrong keywords lol thank you
<Wolfger> took me a few tries, but I arrived after your clarification at: eclipse "missing fonts" in code
<Duolos> except... a lot of those are already installed
<Duolos> Grr... trial and error time.
<Wolfger> without quotes on "missing fonts" I got too much noise
<Duolos> Thanks for the help.  Gonna go grab breakfast and give it some more time when I get back.
<nullspace> woo hoo 1$ JJ sandwiches today!!
<brousch> nullspace: everywhere?
<_stink_> brousch: i think so\
<_stink_> maybe different times
<_stink_> on WSU's campus it's 11-3
<nullspace> _stink_: same here
<_stink_> o/o/
<_stink_> gonna head there in a bit, ofc
<Duolos> Just thought I'd report back on my Eclipse issue.  Turns out I wasn't missing any fonts, but the default font didn't support italics :) All fixed.
<nullspace> Duolos: nice
<snap-l> Duolos: Ah, good to know.
<snap-l> You might want to post that back on the Stack Exchange thread for the next time that Wolfger does Google Fu
<Duolos> snap-l: haha good call
<jrwren> how do you get $1 JJ?
<jrwren> just walk in?
<Wolfger> Duolos had italics in his source code? WTF?
<snap-l> rick_h_: http://www.bluemic.com/reactor/ MMmmmmmmm
<nullspace> jrwren: walking in the doors is the hard party what with the line
<The_Machine> anyone use clonezilla who knows how to get more entries in the mount /home/partimag ?
<The_Machine> it shows 4 that i don't want to use at all
<The_Machine> doesn't show the USB drive i would like to use.  :-/
<snap-l> The_Machine: Does dmesg show the drive as being recognized?
<The_Machine> actually, i just figured out that i don't think it is being recognized
<The_Machine> as you suggest
<The_Machine> :-/
<The_Machine> i hate this stupid old whitebox
<The_Machine> thanks for your response
<The_Machine> i'm just going to go shoot random people now.
<snap-l> I'd just recommend a trip to Microcenter and a party store.
<snap-l> but whatever works.
<The_Machine> er, i meant hug.
<rick_h_>  snap-l reminds me of the movie robots I think
<rick_h_> one day I'll save my pennies for one of those pr-40 mics I think
<rick_h_> I like how it kills sound once you're outside the mic
<snap-l> Yeah, I love Blue mics. :)
<snap-l> How dows redis compare with mongodb?
<snap-l> n/m, key value only vs. document
<snap-l> IN other words, another great way to lose data. ;)
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> redis == replace memcached
<rick_h_> makes a great cache layer, session handler, queue backend, etc
 * snap-l is going to write a k/v store called devnull
<snap-l> fastest around, with all the data integrity you've come to expect from NoSQL / Memcache
<snap-l> store whatever you want: documents, k/v pairs, your entire msuci collection
<Blazeix> went to JJ for $1 sandwiches, the line was out the door, looked to be about a 30 minute wait
<rick_h_> http://techcrunch.com/2011/08/18/google-maps-adds-a-weather-layer/ hah cool!
<rick_h_> should have asked them to deliver :P
<rick_h_> I want weather radar on my google map though :(
<The_Machine> JJ for $1 sandwiches what?!
<snap-l> rick_h_: Can do the same with Weather Underground's Wundermap, which also shows the radar
<rick_h_> right
<The_Machine> Blazeix, where did you hear about JJs for $1?  Can't find on website :)
<Blazeix> The_Machine: I heard it from nullspace at 11:31:32 :)
<The_Machine> hehe
<The_Machine> alrighty
<rick_h_> lmao http://brianhaveri.github.com/Underscore.php/
<snap-l> wtf?
<Wolfger> snap-l: what is with your long string of wtf's on Buzz? Man, you're killing the tattered remnants of my faith in humanity.
<nullspace> Wolfger: foolish of you to hold on to those remains
<Wolfger> they are gone after seeing nullspace buzz about the torture/murder of a Maybach
<snap-l> Wolfger: I live to sweve
<snap-l> and serve
<snap-l> man, what a typo
<snap-l> If you really want to lose faith in humanity, don't fire up Miro all summer
<snap-l> God, my database didn't get deleted, and I have a shit-ton of stuff downloading
<_stink_> gah, sqlalchemy question and no rick_h
<jrwren> is that what became of ipodder?
<_stink_> rick_h_: i'm trying to find a way to take a sqlalchemy object that inherits Base, and get all columns names AND all relationship attributes that sqlalchemy knows about.  i can get the columns with <class_name>.__table__.c, but i can't find a way to have it tell me about relationships it knows about.  any advice?
<rick_h_> _stink_: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/sqlalchemy/_wOvkh6xKss
<_stink_> rick_h_: thanks much.
<rick_h_> np
<rick_h_> _stink_: what are you doing that you need to pull the list?
<_stink_> rick_h_: i was playing with a sort of /metadata rest resource... like "give me JSON with all the objects i'm allowed to see and their attributes", filtered in some appropriate way
<_stink_> if this strikes you as "you're doing it wrong", let me nkow
<_stink_> obviously while only having to define the objects in the normal way, map them the normal way, and only specify the stuff to block from view.
<rick_h_> so then how are you getting all the realtion data?
<rick_h_> and how far down to you nest through them?
<rick_h_> so I'd rather build into base a to_json() method that could do some of what you're doing, but allow for a place to override where you need some custom/extras perhaps
<rick_h_> but understand what you're saying, making it universal requires some internals like that
<_stink_> well, not getting the data at all yet, ergo my question :) but i only want one level, i think
<_stink_> yeah
<_stink_> i made a table to hold the stuff to block, e.g., for each object
<rick_h_> ah, I'd just do a __no_json__ = [xxx, yyy[
<rick_h_> on each object
<_stink_> so there's an 'object_metadata' table that says whether a client can know about it at all, and if so, what columns to blcok
<rick_h_> so you can see when looking at the code if the property is blocked vs looking into the db in some table
<_stink_> see, that's a good idea.
<_stink_> yeah
<_stink_> i like it
<_stink_> so then i would have to have a to_json() on each that held column names and relationship attr names
<_stink_> but i guess at least it's all in one plcae.
<rick_h_> well you add to_json() to base and they all get it
<rick_h_> could even create a JSONBase(Base)
<rick_h_> and then your models that need to drop to json just User(JSONBase): __no_json__ == ['password']
<_stink_> and each would also need to be told specifically about its relationships too, right?
<_stink_> becusae in to_json() in Base I'd still need for blah in self.c:
<_stink_> ?
<_stink_> for the columns
<rick_h_> no, your code you're doing to that would be the way you're heading
<_stink_> i'm just trying to understand how the generic to_json can know about the attributes in each subclass.
<rick_h_> because each of those subclasses inherits from Base
<rick_h_> so it'll know the mapper/etc in that instance
<rick_h_> https://github.com/mitechie/Bookie/blob/feature%2Fapi/bookie/models/__init__.py#L80
<rick_h_> that's the code I use to make all my models able to be cast to dict
<rick_h_> User.get(13)
<rick_h_> return dict(User)
<rick_h_> and the json module can jsonify all dicts
<rick_h_> but that doesn't work for relations
<_stink_> right, so you loop through self.__table__.columns.  doesn't this leave out relationship attributes?
<rick_h_> so I handle that manually: https://github.com/mitechie/Bookie/blob/feature%2Fapi/bookie/views/api.py#L66
<_stink_> yewah, ok
<_stink_> i see, yeah
<rick_h_> I base that on extra url params
<rick_h_> so in bookie's case, if you want the readable content, you pass with_readable=true
<rick_h_> and it'll append it to the root object's dict
<_stink_> sweet, i see
<rick_h_> so yea, you're still in your boat for finding relations in an agnostic way
<_stink_> so i could just have __no_json__ to block columns, and __add_json__ to append relationship
<rick_h_> sure
<_stink_> i'm not sure there's an obviously better way, so that's cool with me
<rick_h_> just be aware that every one of those add_json is another query
<rick_h_> so don't do that in a loop
<rick_h_> that's why I use the with_content, it changes the query that pulls the records to do an eagerjoin on the extra realtion
<rick_h_> https://github.com/mitechie/Bookie/blob/feature%2Fapi/bookie/models/__init__.py#L508
<_stink_> not sure i understand.  if i just want to be able to return a JSON list of attr names when this view is hit, would that cause extra queries?
<rick_h_> hitting a relation for data causes another query to go out to go get it
<rick_h_> User.get(13) only queries the user table
<rick_h_> return User.addresses will then do another query to that user's addresses
<rick_h_> if you have phone, address, email
<rick_h_> that's three queries extra
<rick_h_> and if you're returning 20 users, that's 60 extra queries
<_stink_> ok, i see.  right
<rick_h_> so I'd not get too "automatic" building of a big object without a manual query with some eager joins
<_stink_> i think this view avoids that, but i have to be careful about that once i start retrieving these en masse
<rick_h_> right, start out with api calls for /user
<rick_h_> but eventually you want /users/all
<_stink_> ok, bookmarked those to look at when i start grabbing this
<_stink_> sweet.
<_stink_> this is very helpful, thanks much
<rick_h_> np
<rick_h_> http://thenextweb.com/insider/2011/08/18/hp-announces-it-will-discontinue-touchpad-stop-webos-device-development/
<rick_h_> man, what a day
<rick_h_> crushing blow after crushing blow
<jjesse> didn't they just reelease the touchpad?
<brousch> a few months ago
<jjesse> and they are going to spin off the pc busines?
<brousch> but best buy sold so few they wanted HP to take them back
<jjesse> wierd
<ColonelPanic001> any brave souls here know a bit of Java and mind having a look at a absurdly simple line to see why Eclipse says it's wrong?
<brousch> wimmwishes they could do the same, but they have nothing else to sell
<brousch> rimm
<brousch> ColonelPanic001: pastebin
<brousch> don't ask to ask! what's wrong with you, man?
<ColonelPanic001> I'M SORRY OMG
<ColonelPanic001> http://pastebin.com/bpRnYq3b
<brousch> i'm reporting you to The Leader
<ColonelPanic001> this seems too simple to mess up
<brousch> i don't think jave does the ' and " like python
<brousch> i think you have to use "
<ColonelPanic001> s/python/every other language ever/
<ColonelPanic001> heh
<ColonelPanic001> okay. lame.
<ColonelPanic001> I was hoping I wouldn't have to go through and escape all the "
<brousch> and then escape the inner "s
<ColonelPanic001> thanks
<ColonelPanic001> while I'm asking - what's ' do, then?
<jrwren> single char
<ColonelPanic001> ah
<ColonelPanic001> thanks
<jrwren> char c = 'c';<-ok  string s= 'c'; <<--compile err
<jrwren> rick_h_: what is ClarkstonUnion?
<snap-l> The union in Clarkston? It's a restaurant
<snap-l> rick_h_: I think HP wants to reconvene to see what WebOS will look like in the next few years
<snap-l> because tablet / mobile is pretty much a three-horse race
<rick_h_> jrwren: it's a great little place to eat
<rick_h_> best mac and cheese
<rick_h_> right in downtown
<snap-l> qualifier: best mac and cheese if you like the crock-style baked mac and cheese.
<rick_h_> yea, rich stuf
<rick_h_> rich stuff
<rick_h_> but mmmm so good
<snap-l> (had some folks recommend a pizza place as the best pizza in Chicago, but I didn't like that style of pizza)
<rick_h_> what?! no likey the chicago style deep dish?
<rick_h_> ok, closing this day out...I'm toast
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> rick_h_: I like Jet's style deep dish
<snap-l> and even Buddy's / Shields
<rick_h_> you sir...need new taste
<snap-l> but for whatever reason, this didn't do it for me
<snap-l> We need to get you over here for some Perry's when you can spare some calories
<snap-l> I won't claim they're the best, but they'll definitely make your top 10
<snap-l> top 5 even
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-08-19
<snap-l> I <3 UHF in Royal Oak
<snap-l> apparently someone got rid of some more King Crimson
<snap-l> Projekct 2 (sp)
<snap-l> (which is essentially KC)
<snap-l> and a crap-ton of Zappa
<brousch> what is uhf king crimson projekct?
<snap-l> brousch: King Crimson is Robert Fripp's main band
<snap-l> heavy-duty prog rock
<brousch> i do not know this robert flipp
<snap-l> brousch: Let me ask you a quick question before we go any further
<snap-l> Genesis: Phil Collins or Peter Gabriel?
<brousch> can i google it?
<snap-l> Oh for fucks sake
<brousch> wait, trick question, it was God
<brousch> i think peter gabirel
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdD6L4cKKU8
<brousch> is it worth shutting down my blasting poo armageddon to watch?
<snap-l> brousch: yes
<snap-l> but you have to watch the whole thing
<snap-l> no fast-forwarding
<snap-l> That's Gabriel-era Genesis
<snap-l> unfortunately the sound is a little wonky
<brousch> this is Hook's Drug Store music
<snap-l> No, it's not
<snap-l> Trust me
<brousch> damn boy needs a sammich
<snap-l> he gets one later.
<snap-l> You also get treated to a young Phil Collins on drums
<brousch> hey, you did trick me! they're both genesis
<snap-l> Now you know why a few people were less than happy with Invisible Touch. ;)
<brousch> i have no idea what that is either
<snap-l> Yeah, but Phil Collins took over the vocal duties later on
<snap-l> Oh FFS
<snap-l> Yes, yes you do.
<snap-l> brousch: We'll have to do a listening party next time you're over here.
<brousch> is torture really necessary?
<brousch> i'm not on enough drugs to enjoy this properly
<snap-l> OK, if you hit the part where Peter Gabriel plays the flute, it's all good
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOXqkC12Ix8 <- Onto King Crimson. :)
<brousch> i think king crimson is in a steven king book
<snap-l> brousch: I think Steven King is more an AC/DC fan. ;)
<brousch> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimson_King
<snap-l> Actually, that's a bad example
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBfCzhYbWBk
<snap-l> You've heard this song
<brousch> i have not
<brousch> ug, too jazzy
<brousch> it's kinda like later black sabbath, but not quite as hard
<snap-l> a little
<snap-l> just give it some time
<brousch> i don't want time. i want ARMAGEDDON POO BLASTING AT ME AT 300BPM
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3DppaXz4-o
<snap-l> brousch: Also got this album: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EckQt1bDOYE
<snap-l> (Front By Front)
<brousch> you paid money for that?
<snap-l> Yes
<snap-l> Both of them
<snap-l> Along woth Frank Zappa
<snap-l> Seriously, we're going to have a listening party. :)
<snap-l> Totally going to expose you to awesome music.
<snap-l> Zappa's Black Napkins
<snap-l> Front 242
<snap-l> King Crimson
<brousch> i am not convinced these are awesome
<snap-l> Oh yes, yes they are
<brousch> i have never done drugs
<snap-l> You trust me on OMC. Trust me, these are awesome
<snap-l> I never did drugs
<brousch> well i pick out 1 or 2 good songs each episode of OMC
<brousch> usually it's the singers that ruin the songs
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> jodee jst onformed me that prog rock is indeed hippie music
<brousch> pothead music
<snap-l> not my fault im attracted to misical talent
<brousch> how does jodee feel about your music?
<snap-l> she likes it
<snap-l> especially fabriel-era Genesis
<rick_h_> morning
<Wolfger> morning
<Wolfger> countdown to the weekend begins
<rick_h_> http://twitter.com/#!/agentdero/status/104341787035971584
<snap-l> rick_h_: Can't be worse than what HP did with it. :)
<rick_h_> I'm still in mourning
<rick_h_> was wat
<rick_h_> ching a dev presentation on youtube this morning
<rick_h_> bah, wtf lag
<snap-l> Don't worry, though; it'll be in every single multifunction printer before you know it
<snap-l> And you'll be able to play Angry Birds while you wait for your print job to complete.
<snap-l> as it should be.
<Wolfger> Blackberry Music Service? "It's what our competitors are doing, so we should do it too!"
<snap-l> Wolfger: Seriously?
<snap-l> Got into a discussion with Ron Miller on Twitter that BB was going to have the best polished brass of any sinking ship
<snap-l> BB Music is apparently the chrome plating on said ship
<rick_h_> I rally think I...I mean my son needs one of these! http://techcrunch.com/2011/08/19/sega-toys-dates-and-prices-its-r2-d2-homestar-planetarium-which-shows-the-death-star/
<rick_h_> _stink_: group buy? it's our fatherly duty
<brousch> very nice
<brousch> my wife would want it
<brousch> "runs for three hours on four AAA batteries"
<brousch> ouch
<rick_h_> yea, that part is crazy
<rick_h_> considering it's running a 1w led light?
<brousch> come on, give it a plug so it can be left on all night
<Wolfger> snap-l: seriously. Don't recall if I saw that on Ars or BoingBoing, but snarked here the instant I saw the headline (and proceeded to not read the article)
<jrwren> if snap-l and brousch have a genesis listing party, I'm gonna go Jason Batemen on them.
<jrwren> only snap-l could take a converstaion from phil collins to front 242 in 4 links.
<snap-l> jrwren: Heh. :)
<snap-l> jrwren: I can take that Front 242 and Phil Collins in two links. ;)
<jrwren> snap-l: paste those links
<snap-l> I think the real challenge would be to do that in one single link
<brousch> snap-l will need duct tape and a pistol if he wants to subject me to a genesis listening party :P
<nullspace> brousch: he's been waiting for the this moment all his life
<snap-l> jrwren: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EprQGmZ3Imw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIdpNPt3f30
<snap-l> brousch: That can be arranged. ;)
<Wolfger> snap-l brousch: I have both...
<snap-l> Wolfger: That coffeering article?
<snap-l> Some folks at OU were working on that as well
<snap-l> MIhgt have been in collaboration
<snap-l> they code-named it "Splat"
<Wolfger> heheheh. cool.
<Wolfger> I just hate the photo in that article. So misleading
<snap-l> Yeah, uPenn ? :)
<Wolfger> a photo of what they were talking about would have been much cooler
<jrwren> snap-l: do i have to listen to all of jesus he knows me to judge the appropriateness of the links?
<jrwren> snap-l: lol... i don't think i've ever seen this music video. that evangelist intro was funny
<Wolfger> it was a pretty good vid
<snap-l> jrwren: It's up to you. ;)
<snap-l> jrwren: It wasn't too buried. ;)
<jrwren> it was a good link.
<rick_h_> snap-l: some borders love for you http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-august-16-2011/borders-goes-out-of-business
<Wolfger> snap-l: You're welcome!
<gamerchick02> Happy Friday, everyone!
<rick_h_> party!
<gamerchick02> woot!
<gamerchick02> tonight i am going to a party.
<gamerchick02> sort of. an open house.
<rick_h_> awesome
<gamerchick02> yeah
<brousch> any of you lamers coming to GR for barcampgr?
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, I showed JoDee that.
<snap-l> brousch: Hell no.
<snap-l> And drive out to the west side of the state? Too far. ;)
<brousch> :P
<snap-l> brousch: Actually, I forgot it was this weekend.
<brousch> mulka and steindler came last year
<brousch> oostendorp is coming this year
<snap-l> I don't care if Pippy Longstocking came last year. ;)
<rick_h_> no, I'm conferenced out for now. Starting to get frowns from wife with olf/1devdaydetroit
<snap-l> Y'all can make fun of me for not coming out.
<Wolfger> and we will
<Wolfger> :-)
<Wolfger> we might photoshop your face onto a certain picture of Batman
<Wolfger> oh, I'm sorry, Gimp your face onto a certain picture of Batman :-D
<brousch> which sounds even better
<Wolfger> lunch!
<gamerchick02> i'd love to but i'm going to the Midland Fair on Saturday
<gamerchick02> lunch? it's. oh. 11 am.
<gamerchick02> yeah
<Duolos> brousch: Where is that?
<brousch> calvin
<snap-l> No good can come of that. :)
<brousch> well it keeps some of the more risque fringe element away, but we have to go off campus for the beer
<brousch> so it's kind of a wash. oh, and we can't do sunday
<Wolfger> brousch: and what's wrong with the risque fringe element? :-p
<rick_h_> snap-l: did you hit up the ohio loco?
<snap-l> Apparently a bus broke down in front of the house
<rick_h_> ouch
<snap-l> rick_h_: It's on my list to do today.
<rick_h_> cool
<snap-l> some schoolbus
<Wolfger> Firefox is going to remove version numbers entirely? Despite an initial negative reaction, I think it's a genius move, really.
<snap-l> But, luckily it appears to be up and running
<Wolfger> snap-l: so you have screaming school kids in front of your house?
<snap-l> not yet.
<snap-l> working on it.
 * Wolfger ponders what snap-l will do to make them scream
<Wolfger> Nobody needs to know their version number, since the first response to a bug report is: are you running the latest version?
<snap-l> I'm playing Frank Zappa right now
<Wolfger> if children go home singing Frank Zappa songs, you might have screaming parents on your lawn
<snap-l> Stinkfoot puts the hurt on my nose.
<snap-l> http://ubuntuone.com/p/1BZO/ <- This is awesome (ht jrwren )
<rick_h_> snap-l: did you check out the comments?
<rick_h_> links to other samples
<rick_h_> sorry, but that's a bit cheap/easy there for clickbait
<rick_h_> welcome to the sucker club
<snap-l> ?
<rick_h_> http://twitpic.com/67ykpa
<rick_h_> see the comments
<snap-l> Well, it's interesting that there were so many different variants, and now they all look like iPads
<snap-l> Someone might point out that Star Trek's pads look like iPads
<snap-l> It's just interesting how Apple finds something that works, and and the rest of the industry follows suit
<rick_h_> yea, funny how they can pull 15yrs of examples to prove that in the lsat 1.5yr things are similar
<snap-l> Saw that with Mac -> Windows 95
<jcastro> [citation-needed]
<snap-l> Saw that with iPhone -> just about every phone on the market.
<jcastro> you still owe me a steak wrt. market share sir. :)
<snap-l> jcastro: You want a citation?
<snap-l> Case of beer, sir
<snap-l> not steak
<snap-l> jcastro: Here's the citation you requested: http://ubuntuone.com/p/1BZh/
<ColonelPanic001> in Java, if I have a class OuterClass, and nested in there I have a InnerClass, is there a way to do so of "this", but referring to the OuterClass?
<jcastro> hahaha
<jcastro> awesome
<ColonelPanic001> nm, think I've got it.
<ColonelPanic001> OuterClass.this, fwiw
<rick_h_> hah, snap-l wasn't this from previous SF guys? http://twitter.com/#!/Simple_CV/status/103546883368173568
<snap-l> Yeah, Nate Oostendorp
<rick_h_> ah, that's right. Well he didn't hire me so :P then
<rick_h_> these are a great waste of time
<rick_h_> http://fuckyouyelper.tumblr.com/
<gamerchick02> restarting to update windows. bah. see everyone in a bit
<rick_h_> imagine being an owner of a place and getting one star reviews like that
<snap-l> I've seen it
<snap-l> There's a restaurant in Royal Oak that got a one star review because apparently they had a disgruntled employee
<rick_h_> did I mention I'm suffering from a case of the 'fridays'
<snap-l> I figure for every review like that, there's likely several that aren't nearly as voca
<snap-l> l
<snap-l> rick_h_: Noted.
<rick_h_> damn, ok now this is crazy
<rick_h_> so I was helping a dev on that simplecv with doing "fast pythonic" code the other day
<rick_h_> and she's working for that comapny
<rick_h_> or at least is a member of hte project
<snap-l> http://fuckyouyelper.tumblr.com/post/9010491088/i-ordered-the-broiled-crab-cakes-and-they-were
<rick_h_> so I'm training the employees of the guy that didn't want me to work for him lol
<snap-l> Hey, maybe we could go work for them. ;)
<rick_h_> hah
<snap-l> Sent a note to the Ohio Loco re: sharing a booth
<rick_h_> snap-l: ok cool, going to do a blog post later and we'll need to send a link/reminder to the discuss/loco mailing list
<rick_h_> to get our booth credit for lococast
<rick_h_> seems reasonable to me
<snap-l> Sure thing. I'll draft something up
<rick_h_> oh cool, thanks
<snap-l> Wow, HP leaves the mobile business and the PC business days apart.
<snap-l> And yet another IBM is born
<jjesse> i read that webos ran faster on an iPad then on the web tablet or whatever it was called
<snap-l> jjesse: I wouldn't doubt it
<snap-l> It's pretty much sounding the death knell for low-end hardware in this country
<nullspace> snap-l: hmmm nope don't care, bye hp
<nullspace> never liked the interior design of their pcs anyway
<snap-l> nullspace: yes, but seeing them leave the game once they attained the lead is a bit odd.
<snap-l> It's like BMW saying they're getting out of the car business to focus on interiors.
<rick_h_> https://ohiolinux.org/sponsors lococast is at the bottom
<snap-l> Awesome. :)
<rick_h_> ok, NC dude stikes, I think it's time to hit the weekend
<rick_h_> snap-l: I'll ping you later tonight on getting the blog/mailing list things in order to earn our spot on the sponsors page
<snap-l> Linux Journal just went 100% digital
<snap-l> rick_h_: Sure thing
<snap-l> Ouch: http://www.ohiolinux.org/talks#HPWEBOS
<snap-l> rick_h_: Sent out the mail
<snap-l_> Well, that was fun
<snap-l_> connection went down
<snap-l> Are we planning on pizza during the jam, or going out after the jam?
<snap-l> I'm thinking pizza might be easier, but if folks want to go out afterward, I'm OK with that.
<snap-l> Sent out e-mail for that as well.
<snap-l> Man, September is a busy month. ;)
<rick_h_> yes it is
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-08-20
<snap-l> http://micronaut.bandcamp.com/album/particulate
<snap-l> Read the story of this album. This is pretty cool
<snap-l> Definitely another one of those programming zen albums
<jrwren> howdy.
<jrwren> um... our bug jam day is the same day as umich opener... travelers beware.
<jrwren> the early noon time meetup should be fine though.
<jrwren> and we are north enough to avoid most of the traffic anyway
<snap-l> Ho boy
<snap-l> That's not good
<rick_h_> anyone up for coffee/code later today?
<snap-l> Heading to Metro Beach today to watch airplanes.
<rick_h_> ooh, fun
<greg-g> for a new Lenovo, the X220 looks good, right? :) CC is getting ready to buy me one, and I love my X200s
<jrwren> greg-g: yup, x220 is sweet.
<jrwren> greg-g: ONLY reason you might want to go t420s instead is that with the right display chip and dock, it can output to 3 ext monitors and use laptop display all at same time.
<greg-g> jrwren: yeah, don't think I need 3 ext + laptop display :) thanks!
 * greg-g waves from Wyoming
<rick_h_> greg-g: I'm going to be jealous
<rick_h_> but yea, 220 ftw
<greg-g> rick_h_: :) yeah and I'm making them buy me an SSD as well, since they pay about $1200 for new macbook pros for people, I can get a X220+SSD for the same price. It isn't my fault MBPros are overpriced :)
<greg-g> s/about $1200/at least $1200/
<jjesse-netbook> get a macbook air :)
<rick_h_> greg-g: awesome!
<rick_h_> I need to get an SSD for my desktop. It's such a difference that I cna't stand working on a quad core machine with 16gb of ram :/
<greg-g> wow, yeah
<greg-g> jjesse-netbook: :P
<jjesse-netbook> a 128gb Air is like 1200 bucks
<greg-g> oh, I guess those are cheaper than a mbp
<jjesse-netbook> yeah they are
<jjesse-netbook> brousch:  how is barcampgr going?
<jrwren> i was thinking I wanted a 420s... but after using a macbook air, I think maybe the x220 is for me too. I can't make up my mind.
<rick_h_> I love the 12", never going back
<rick_h_> the fact that I'm docked at home/work and hte only time I suffer a small display is traveling
<rick_h_> which is when I want small/light
<rick_h_> and the fact that you get 8+gb of ram and i5/i7 in there means performance doesn't suffer
<snap-l> hoqdy
<rick_h_> wow, is github down for anyone else?
<rick_h_> damn opendns at caribou messing wiht me I htink
<brousch> "Lococast podcaster and PyCon speaker Rick Harding with Python, PEP8, and Why Reading Code Matters"
<brousch> i didn't know you spkoke at pycon!
<rick_h_> brousch: lol, I better get that fixed
<rick_h_> I think pyohio must have turned into pycon somehow
<brousch> probably
<brousch> devday is 2 days now?
<rick_h_> yea, I guess friday is "keynotes"
<rick_h_> I don't really follow it
<rick_h_> ok, email away to get that corrected
<brousch> snap-l: one of your MUGgers was at barcampgr
<snap-l> brousch: Which one?
<brousch> http://www.flickr.com/photos/brousch/6063699004/
<brousch> i forgot his name
<rick_h_> duane
<brousch> he said they brought you in to fix up mug
<snap-l> Heh
<snap-l> Duane is a card. ;)
<brousch> nice guy
<rick_h_> brousch: so how did it go?
<rick_h_> blog post forthcoming?
<brousch> ug, so tired
<brousch> it went really well
<brousch> we used convore
<brousch> waznex and the grid splitter worked well
<brousch> people were amazed by it
<rick_h_> awesome!
<brousch> talks.barcampgr.org
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-08-21
<brousch> a couple still up there
<brousch> http://www.flickr.com/photos/brousch/6061216577/in/set-72157627350920995
<brousch> i will post tonight if i can get in the writing mood
<snap-l> OK, time to try a reboot.
<snap-l> bbl.
<snap-l> Evening, everyone?
<_stink_> man, Royal Oak has some touchy power.
<snap-l> Yeah, it can
<snap-l> Are you out of power again?
<_stink_> we're up in Saginaw, but i know we bliped out earlier
<_stink_> mostly because my home server is down *again*
<_stink_> did you lose it?
<snap-l> Yeah, my parents blipped out
<snap-l> Not sure. COffee pot is still on
<_stink_> heh
<snap-l> but I have a UPS just for such occasions. ;)
<_stink_> man, i should get one.
<_stink_> instead, i just moved my 'communication' screen session to the linode.
<snap-l> Yeah, I've been thinking of doing that.
<rick_h_> _stink_: yea, battery backup is worth it
<rick_h_> if only because I can run the router/model for an hour+ on the thing
<snap-l> If you have a desktop with PCI-e, and an onboard video card from AMD, you might want to head to Microcenter.
<snap-l> They have the ASUS HD5450 for $39.99 with $20 rebate
<snap-l> 512DDR3 memory
<snap-l> It's as low-end as you can get, but it still beats the pants off of the 3450 that was onboard. ;)
<rick_h_> awesome
<Duolos> Hey, is there a get-together in Grand Rapids at all this Thursday?
<brousch> Duolos: i don't see anything
<brousch> normally it would be the west michigan linux user group, but barcampgr sort of sucked up everyone's energy
<Duolos> ah ok
<brousch> this is the best place to check http://conga-wm.org/calendar/
<brousch> bookmark it or add it to your gcal
<Duolos> will do.  thank you
<snap-l> Gotta love WWJ blocking access ot their station on my Squeezebox.
<snap-l> What a bunch of tossing clowns.
<rick_h_> oh yea?
<rick_h_> how'd you figure they were blocking the squeezebox?
<snap-l> Used to have them as a favorite, but says "This station is no longer accessible"
<snap-l> Net result: They no longer exist.
<rick_h_> gotcha
<snap-l> I'm not going to their stupid flash playing piece of garbage.
<rick_h_> oh buy why not?! :P
<snap-l> Frankly, they can do whatever they want with their stream, but frankly I'm repulsed.
<snap-l> And I'd think in an era where every listener is precious, you'd be a little more accomidating.
<snap-l> Oh, they also pulled WOMC as well
<snap-l> Smooth move, Ex-Lax.
<snap-l> Considering that was the only way that I could have ever listened to their HD2 stream, that's brilliant.
<rick_h_> ruh roh
<snap-l> No, actually, that's brilliant
<snap-l> since their HD3 station was psychic crap, this keeps JoDee from accidentally hitting it and blowing up the radio.
<snap-l> "I wanted to know can I embed a video into a Scribus document and save as a PDF?  I want to make a brochure with a video in the brochure and all I can do now is have a link to a YouTube video."
<Thirtysixway> lol
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-08-18
<Blazeix> nice, rick_h_'s bookie reddit post is at the top of /r/python now
<brousch> Ooooh, on my front page
<Blazeix> d'oh, reddit just went down. I blame rick_h_ for his massively popular article.
<derekv> lol
<derekv> nice
<brousch> reddit was rick-dotted?
<Blazeix> i believe the preferred terminology is rick-razed.
<rick_h_> woot!
<rick_h_> back from the zoo, how'd we do
<rick_h_> what? reddit down? come on that's not helping me at all
<rick_h_> well, good comments, a bunch of blog post views, handful of new user accounts. but I submitted on a weekend
<rick_h_> and to /Python so limited audience I guess
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-08-19
<rick_h_> jcastro: how do you do a "Show HN"? I only see ask/jobs/submit
<Blazeix> rick_h_: pretty sure you prefix the title with "Show HN"
<Blazeix> http://www.hnsearch.com/search#request/all&q=SHow+HN&sortby=create_ts+desc
<rick_h_> ok yea, I found a big thread discussing making it a tab
<rick_h_> but looks like it's shot down
<rick_h_> well, don't want to submit and go to bed, so maybe for tomorrow
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> 499
<rick_h_> views on your busiest day, August 18, 2012
<rick_h_> lol, damn one short
<snap-l> rick_h_: Did the API url change or something?
<snap-l> I can't seem to bookmark
<snap-l> via the extension
<snap-l> I'm getting a 502 error when bookmarking from the site
<rick_h_> snap-l: no, 502 from the site? using 'add bookmark'?
<snap-l> Yes
<rick_h_> k, sec will look
<snap-l> bbl
<brousch> I found my old 1 gallon aquarium in the basement and got some fish for it
<rick_h_> wtf it works locally
<brousch> Hm, yeah 502 for me too
<rick_h_> ok yea saw the error that time
<rick_h_> whoosh file lock error because I've got import going I bet
<rick_h_> there's a huge import going on that's killing me
<brousch> so add doesn't go through celery?
<rick_h_> the import does
<rick_h_> but it's throwing new bookmarks at whoosh like no tomorrow
<rick_h_> and the web site gets locked out
<brousch> right, so the normal add doesn't get put in the same way?
<rick_h_> I just killed celery and got it to work
<rick_h_> still slow
<brousch> It seems like all adds would go through the same process to be added
<rick_h_> no, normal add happens in request. Because just saving a bookmark hits whoosh to index the page title, description, and extended description
<rick_h_> they do, sqlalchemy events, but two people are talking now
<rick_h_> the web site and the celery importer
<rick_h_> so they're fighting over who has lock access to the whoosh index
<rick_h_> and this is when you get fun with file based data stores
<brousch> Yeah, I'm probably just showing my ignorance
<rick_h_> so when the website is adding all is well. It's sharing a single lock for all of it's threads
<brousch> I figured the importer would throw each add into celery, then that add would be processed by whoosh as it has resources
<rick_h_> whoosh only lets one person hold the lock at a time
<rick_h_> so the importer starts up, and it's taking over 30min (keep having to kill/restart his import)
<rick_h_> and it grabs the lock
<rick_h_> and the website says "hey, I need that..."
<brousch> So the web site add would throw it's stuff into celery and it would be processed in the queue with the import
<rick_h_> but the web site doesn't toss a single new bookmark to celery, you want to have that stored now
<brousch> Sounds like maybe it should
<rick_h_> the proper thing to do would be to catch the whoosh index lock exception, and file a background celery process for later
<rick_h_> or move fulltext off to something that works with multiple users/locks
<brousch> That sounds like extra code. Why not just always do it in celery?
<rick_h_> most imports take 2min
<jrwren> i was afk until now. congrats rick_h_
<rick_h_> and most people aren't saving new bookmarks every 2min so it's not been an issue
<jrwren> excellent work.
<brousch> But as you scale
<rick_h_> jrwren: heh, well it's blowing up in places :)
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, as I scalethe right thing to do is move fulltext off of whoosh
<brousch> Onto what?
<rick_h_> every db actoin can't have to go through celery
<rick_h_> brousch: elasticsearch, lucense/blah
<brousch> Why not? I thought that was the new hotness
<rick_h_> heh
<brousch> async all the things!
<rick_h_> dammit, something is up. I don't get what.
<jrwren> bmark.us feels faster.
<jcastro> rick_h_: where you hosting this btw?
<rick_h_> jcastro: pair os ec2 instances
<rick_h_> /os/of
<rick_h_> I think the add new bookmark issue isn't all the whoosh as well. I shut down everything, restarted services, and still getting an issue.
<rick_h_> heh, guess I need an account delete button
<rick_h_> someone is going through and deleting all their imported bookmarks one by one
<rick_h_> yea, whoosh index is melted
<rick_h_> there goes that
<rick_h_> but adding should work again
<rick_h_> snap-l: brousch ^
<snap-l> rick_h_: Will check. Thanks!
<snap-l> "Xubuntu is not a refugee camp"
<snap-l> Oh, this is going to be a good blog post.
<rick_h_> .lol
<snap-l> http://open.knome.fi/2012/08/19/xubuntu-is-not-a-refugee-camp/
<snap-l> Evening (at least, in 35 minutes)
<rick_h_> party
<brousch> Ridiculous http://twitter.com/N165Mars
<Blazeix> brousch++
<brousch> It's kind of cool to send Shawn Powers a personal invite to BarCampGR
<rick_h_> lol
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-08-12
<nezsez> anyone home?
<rick_h> yep, home
<nezsez> oh sorry rick, got lost in an email response :)
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> Brought a fan to work. Feeling a little better about the world.
<rick_h> morning and heh
<brousch> A device for moving air, or a cheering person?
<snap-l> A device for moving air
<snap-l> There's low airflow in this cubicle
<snap-l> Finally did something about it
<snap-l> http://www.vornado.com/personal-circulators/-ZIPPI
<snap-l> I got the raindrop colored one
<brousch> I have 2 server towers 10ft away that circulate air for me
<snap-l> Lucky. :)
<snap-l> Also played a bit with the theme on my blog
<rick_h> vornado ftw!
<snap-l> Yeah, almost all of our home fans are vornado
<snap-l> nd by almost, I mean two.
<rick_h> yea, 3 here
<brousch> Kivy is higher up than Pyramid http://stg.pythonhackers.com/os/
<brousch> If you can't get a Chromecast, make your own https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=at.maui.cheapcast
<snap-l> Are we having fun yet?
<rick_h> oh yea
<rick_h> motrin kicking in
<jrwren> 2 ervers nearby is not lucky, its torture. How loud is it near you brousch ?
<rick_h> ervers?
<rick_h> oh servers
<rick_h> nvm, got it
<jrwren> typo, not enough coffee
<brousch> Not too bad
<brousch> They are tower servers, so there's more noise consideration
<jrwren> i like quiet.
<jrwren> i find laptops annoying when their fans spin up
<brousch> It's white noise to cover the ramblings of people in nearby cubicles too
<jrwren> ah, as long as it isn't the jet engine sound of my 1U servers.
<Blazeix> anybody have an opinion on grunt?
<Blazeix> having an issue figuring out why you'd use it over a makefile
<snap-l> God, there's a new version of Learning Python
<rick_h> Blazeix: because it's JS
<rick_h> other than that...nothing
<snap-l> It's like why you would use ant over make
<Blazeix> yeah, but seems weird to have js config for cli tools, which is what most of them are
<Blazeix> guess it's just the node community
<snap-l> or rake over make
<brousch> maybe more portable than make to Windows
<snap-l> make has a heavy C bias
<rick_h> yea, node community wants to use their node tools to do their node apps so that they don't have to learn shell, or anything else resembling something already installed on the system
<snap-l> so it makes sense for things that have a compiled state that can be updated whenever a file updates
<Blazeix> which fits perfectly for minification/compilation of coffeescript/sass etc
<Blazeix> ok, but i can accept that 'ant' and rake/fake/?ake exists, so i guess i'll be ok with grunt
<snap-l> Personally I feel like everyone is spending time reinventing the wheel, but then again if nothing changed we'd be using Turbo Pascal on DOS 3.3 machines
<snap-l> so I just suck it up. :)
<brousch> Screw that $600 for Ubuntu Edge thing http://gigaom.com/2013/08/12/firefox-os-for-the-world-zte-to-sell-80-open-smartphone-through-ebay/
<snap-l> http://arstechnica.com/business/2013/08/blackberry-announces-that-it-may-sell-the-company/
<rick_h> #toolate
<jrwren> Blazeix: i have strong opinions on grunt. have you formed your own yet?
<snap-l> It's going to be a patent grab at this point
<jrwren> Blazeix: grunt exists for 1 reason only: Windows.
 * rick_h sits back to listen to jrwren story time
<jrwren> Windows doesn't ship with make or bash, but nodejs installs from the Windows Platform Installer (WPI)
<rick_h> ah, that's interesting
<jrwren> so by using grunt you target all platforms on which nodejs runs.
 * snap-l gets his footie PJs on and a cup of hot cocoa
<jrwren> yes, it sucks, and it bullshit and make + posix shell
<jrwren> is better.
<rick_h> but at least it's a valid reason
<jrwren> yes, Windows is a valid reason.
<snap-l> Question: why not reimplement make in JS then?
<jrwren> however, if you don't care about windows, then you have no good reason to care about grunt, IMO
<jrwren> use make and shell
<rick_h> right, which is why I don't think much of grunt
<jrwren> snap-l: make does do very much, after dep resolution the interesting things it does is call shell commands
<nezsez> what are you ppl using js for in the first place, web dev, mongodb, admin scripting or what?
<rick_h> everything!
<rick_h> JS all the things!
<nezsez> LOL
<snap-l> http://blogs.msdn.com/b/mssmallbiz/archive/2013/06/28/almost-150-free-microsoft-ebooks-covering-windows-7-windows-8-office-2010-office-2013-office-365-office-web-apps-windows-server-2012-windows-phone-7-windows-phone-8-sql-server-2008-sql-server-2012-sharepoint-server-2010-s.aspx
<rick_h> web dev thuogh
<nezsez> ok, so you are using make to handle platform/arch conditionals ?
<Blazeix> jrwren: ah, interesting, thanks
<Blazeix> for windows dev i only ever do .NET stuff, which has "the MS way" like bundling
<rick_h> nezsez: yea, makefiles for automating/building/installing really
<Blazeix> but i suppose if i were trying to python or something like that i could see using grunt
<rick_h> nezsez: bookie's install it "git clone ... && make sysdeps && make install && make run && xdg-open http://localhost?6543"
<nezsez> I'm not a js guy, is why i'm asking
<nezsez> rick_h: yeah i use make, just not for js LOL
<rick_h> nezsez: ah, well grunt is just doing the file watching, css minifying, less processing, etc
<rick_h> jrwren: bookie sprint my place 31th 11am. I'm going to start writing up a block post and such but put it on the calendar :)
<Blazeix> in webdev there are a lot of processes that need 'compilation', like combining all your JS files for efficient downloading
<Blazeix> it's these sort of processes that you'd use make or grunt for
<nezsez> wtf is "bookie" ?
<Blazeix> rick_h's open source project
<nezsez> ah
<nezsez> so rick_h is an online gambling kingpin
<Blazeix> social bookmarking kingpin
<Blazeix> https://bmark.us/recent
<nezsez> LOL
<rick_h> hah, yea something like that
<brousch> I want something like grunt in python
<brousch> So I can use it on windows and Android
 * rick_h wonders if pake is still around
<brousch> Was dead when I looked
<nezsez> brousch: you code for android on linux, MS windows, both or what?
<brousch> fabric is close, but the openssl dependecy is annoying on windows and android
<brousch> I use Linux at home, and am trying Windows at work
<brousch> Working on Python on Android stuff
<nezsez> interesting
<brousch> I do a little of everything
<nezsez> yeah me too
<nezsez> just got the new edition of "Learning Python"
<nezsez> the biggest turn off for coding these days is the setup/maintenece of the friggin IDEs
<nezsez> eclipse, Visual Studio......egads
<brousch> I had weaned myself off of PyDev (eclipse) to vim on Linux, but now I'm back to using it because I can't get the hang of vim on Windows
<brousch> But really setting up PyDev is easy. Download Aptana Studio, install, done
<nezsez> ah, yeah i pretty much use vi for everything
<nezsez> once you get the buffers/windows/tabs thing down it's great
<nezsez> i have been thrown off with some of the default keybindings in gvim on MS win
<brousch> part of it is the windows console
<Blazeix> oh, definitely run gvim on windows
<Blazeix> console vim on windows is sad
<brousch> I try to go somewhere and I keep using the wrong \s and commands (ls)
<Blazeix> the cream project keeps up-to-date windows builds, much more up to date than vim.org: http://sourceforge.net/projects/cream/files/Vim/
<nezsez> LOL, yeah just yesterday i typed ":ls" and got the standard error
<nezsez> on gvim on win I mean :)
<Blazeix> if you install git for windows, it adds mingw environment, so you get 'ls'
<nezsez> sure, if you do the $PATH thing on the install of git
<nezsez> I of course did not do that
<Blazeix> oh, i do
<Blazeix> you get rxvt, too
<nezsez> i haven't heard of cream before
<Blazeix> yeah, i don't really know too much about the editor, but they keep vanilla vim builds as well as their cream builds
<nezsez> so it's not just another .vimrc thing?
<nezsez> but an actual build of the vim source with mods?
<Blazeix> i think so
<nezsez> Tim Pope's stuff is the best
<nezsez> but it's just vimrc and plugin stuff
<nezsez> brousch: what kinda apps are you doing for android?
<nezsez> brousch: you coding for split windows on tablets yet?
<brousch> Kivy
<nezsez> Blazeix: you don't use eric or idle or pydev at all anymore?
<Blazeix> i just use vim, though i'm not a master python programmer
<brousch> Eclipse really isn't bad. A bit slow to start up, but you only do that once a day
<nezsez> brousch: you work on the kivy project, or use for your own projects?
<brousch> Both!
<nezsez> brousch: a excellent
<nezsez> Blazeix: well try running an eclipse install on a multi user system for 100+ dev; believe me it's a nightmare
<brousch> Anything running for 100+ devs sounds like a nighttmare
<nezsez> sadly, most OSS userland projects are not coded for actual simoultaneous usage
<brousch> Do they not have their own computers?
<nezsez> brousch: sure they do, and that's a whole nuther can o' worms :)
<brousch> Then what's the  problem? They work in eclipse on their computer, commit via git
<nezsez> brousch: but for continous integration, build servers, and typically HPC stuff many run off servers for compatability etc
<brousch> I don't see what eclipse has to do with what happens on the servers
<nezsez> brousch: most companies, large institutions centralize for many things
<brousch> They're doing it wrong!
<nezsez> brousch: they run eclipse from a server
<nezsez> no they aren't
<nezsez> you cross compile for ppc, mips, arm, pi, cell/GPU and the setups get complex quick
<brousch> You don't just submit the builds to the build servers?
<jrwren> rick_h: thanks, its on the calendar
<nezsez> most of the ones I've worked with did, but only after testing on a server ya know
<nezsez> take a 1024 node beowulf, vs a 1024 node SGI Origin for example
<brousch> Still sounds wrong to me, but I have no experience with enterprise stuff
<nezsez> if you are writing code for both working on the same domain problem, well it don't pay to have dozens of eclipse setups all over the place
<nezsez> so they setup eclipse on a multi-user system, setup paths for the various arch/plat LIBS, etc, and then everyone runs eclipse off that server and remote displays
<snap-l> This sounds like a unique problem to have
<brousch> Sounds slow
<snap-l> Everywhere I've seen Eclipse / Rational, it's been installed on the local machine
<snap-l> And usually with the beefiest of beefy machines
<jrwren> its because they are using eclipse.
<jrwren> using eclipse as a build engine is the problem. now solve it.
<jrwren> you should always be able to do a build without starting an IDE.
<jrwren> if you do not share this value, then your values are out of whack. fix that.
<snap-l> jrwren: Ever built a Websphere WAR file from scratch?
<snap-l> I tried. it's not fun
<nezsez> jrwren: you obviously have not worked with faculty. fix that.
<jrwren> faculty?
<jrwren> I have worked with faculty.
<jrwren> if you mean university fools.
<snap-l> Was this for a lab?
<jrwren> PhDs are the worst.
<jrwren> its still wrong: fix it.
<jrwren> I didn't say fixing it was easy.
<nezsez> yeah, as in 100's or 1000's coding for HPC <sigh>  talk about herding cats :)
<nezsez> acutally, for me, phd *students* were great to work with :)
<jrwren> IME most PhDs wouldn't know a HPC if it hit them in their face.
<jrwren> yes, and even postdocs are great IMO
<snap-l> But yeah, I agree with jrwren; having some form of build server would be preferable to having everyone run eclipse and display remotely
<jrwren> once you get a professorship position something changes in you. your pre frontal cortex turns to mush
<snap-l> jrwren: You lose the "strive"
<snap-l> strife is what makes a postdoc bearable
<nezsez> jrwren: I had one guy in physics, actually the highest ranking faculty at a major statue univ, he wrote code for an SGI Origin 2000
<snap-l> once they lose the strife, they become ethereal cereal
<nezsez> jrwren: 57 Gig ram and 57 compute nodes (very impressive back then FTR)
<snap-l> and float up into the eternal asshole
<nezsez> jrwren: and he wrote a single threaded, single process program LOL
<snap-l> (Actaully, there were some great PhD folks who didn't become assholes where I worked)
<jrwren> nezsez: not surprising. was it fortran?
<nezsez> jwren: yup fortran of course
<jrwren> same here, all the PhDs i've worked with ehre are great.
<jrwren> they were spending their time getting PhD and profships, not spending time leanring to code. I don't hold it against hem.
<jrwren> the hard part is getting poeple to understand that PhDs are shitty coders, and helping them code better.
<jrwren> and yes, I mean compsci PhDs too
<nezsez> some of my best friends now are phd students I helped out years ago
<nezsez> I should point out at this point that I worked for Mathematics, CS, and Eng college over the years.
<jrwren> what school?
<nezsez> The CS coders were actually good, except for the really old ones
<nezsez> a major state univ, not in MI :)
<jrwren> no names eh?
<nezsez> well, I detest that school now
<jrwren> all the more reason to name teh evil.
<nezsez> LOL true
<nezsez> TTU
<nezsez> there, I said it
<jrwren> tennessee tech!
<jrwren> texas tech
<jrwren> talahasee tech
<nezsez> I almost applied for a position at tenesee with NASA about 10 yrs ago
<nezsez> glad i didn't
<brousch> The Technical University
<nezsez> Texas Tech
<nezsez> I hate that school, and I worked with the previous pres, provost, and a prev chancillor too
<nezsez> I must say that the faculty in the math and CS depts were really great ppl
<nezsez> but the sniveling middle management and beaurocratic hell were horrible
<nezsez> an no I never met Bobby Knight, altough two of my admin friends did
<nezsez> I never met Mike Leach either
<nezsez> did anyone go to univ here in MI?
<rick_h> lol, in another irc channel "hatch| your horrible terminalness is rubbing off on me:
<brousch> yes
<nezsez> grad or undergrad? how was it, the atmosphere in your area i mean
<nezsez> I'm thinking about applying to the univs here (employment not student) is why I ask
<brousch> It was the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor. The most universitiest place on Earth
<nezsez> did you like it there?
<brousch> Yes
<brousch> My only complaint is the cost
<nezsez> k, did the staff (not faculty) treat you pretty good or was it like anytime you interacted with them it was a nightmare?
<brousch> I don't remember any nightmares
<nezsez> LOL yeah I paid 12$/hr when i quite, 10 yrs later it was 120$/hr !
<greg-g> now that my work laptop was stolen and I want to manage my gpg/ssh keys in the best possible way (don't worry, I've deleted that laptop's ssh key from everywhere it could access), what is the best guide on "here's how to do it, this is the really secure/right way" (I'm thinking a guide that says "for your gpg signing key, do this, for your gpg encryption key that does automatic backups, do this." etc)
<brousch> stolen?!
<nezsez> ouch
<brousch> Don't they hand out macbook airs on the street corners for free in SF?
<nezsez> man i'm sorry to hear that
<rick_h> greg-g: :( and ping http://pthree.org/ for advice. He's all into this stuff
<ColonelPanic001> nezsez: fwiw, I did my B.Sc. in CS at Wayne State
<brousch> ColonelPanic001: Wait, don't you work there?
<nezsez> ColonelPanic001: ah, I had some friends that worked in the math dept there a long time ago, they liked it
<nezsez> Colonel: as a student, how did the staff treat you?
<ColonelPanic001> brousch: I do work here now, yeah
<ColonelPanic001> student from 2004-2008, employee in C&IT Jan 2011-present
<ColonelPanic001> nezsez: as in, were the professors nice? I'd say so
<nezsez> colonel: no not the faculty, the regular staff, secretaries, IT personel, etc
<ColonelPanic001> my intereaction with them was minimal at best as a student
<ColonelPanic001> I just showed up and went to class
<ColonelPanic001> but I have no specific complaints either, if that helps
<nezsez> colonel: I understand.  That's one of my objections to current colleges...they should be more involved with the students
<greg-g> rick_h: oh righ!
<ColonelPanic001> well, there's something like 100-200 student orgs here, etc
<greg-g> +t
<ColonelPanic001> but I didn't seek them out, etc until I helped re-start one
<ColonelPanic001> didn't do any of the orientations, etc
<rick_h> greg-g: and I'll be hoping a thinkpad lands your way :)
<nezsez> Colonel: I understand. It seems the Wayne State Linux group has been inactive for several years
<ColonelPanic001> if they had tried harder, I would have told to leave me alone so I could study. :)
<greg-g> rick_h: YES!
<ColonelPanic001> meh, it's semi-inactive
<ColonelPanic001> we exist in that there's a bunch of use that talk daily, etc
<ColonelPanic001> in fact, #waynestatelug
 * rick_h shudders at the idea of laptop stolen
<greg-g> rick_h: that was my second thought after "shit"... "oh, sweet, maybe I'll get a real laptop now!"
<ColonelPanic001> we live
<rick_h> greg-g: yea, I didn't want to start with that
<rick_h> greg-g: but can't say it didn't 'pop' into my head :)
<ColonelPanic001> but, we don't meet often because we're mostly employees, etc. We just need a couple students to take initiative and get it going
<greg-g> rick_h: :)
<greg-g> silver lining and all that
<rick_h> greg-g: but yea, hit up aaron, he's given talks and such and run encrypted HDD and such for a long time
<nezsez> colonel: I understand; I started a LUG at TTU in the early 90's as a staff memeber myself
 * greg-g nods
<ColonelPanic001> I should probably have this laptop with full disk encryption
<nezsez> yeah, I was a memeber, you know one who spreads memes <sigh>
<ColonelPanic001> next time I do a reinstall
<nezsez> Colonel: you do IT there now?
<ColonelPanic001> I does
<ColonelPanic001> but there are good things about WSU, too.
<nezsez> WSU and UofM both have very good reputations
<snap-l> WSU has a reputation. :)
<nezsez> one of our grad students became faculty in math for a while (he's gone now) at WSU
<ColonelPanic001> Â¬_Â¬
<nezsez> he like it there
<nezsez> WDET kicks ass FTR
<ColonelPanic001> I've known a few math grad students here, but I couldn't really say much about the department
<brousch> Stolen laptop is one reason I'm looking forward to chromebook-like things
<nezsez> colonel: you work for a dept, centralized IT, or a special center or what?
<ColonelPanic001> I'm just tired of all the stuff in the way of the NSA backing up my stuff for me. I figure with a chromebook it'd be wasier
<ColonelPanic001> nezsez: yeah, central IT, called Computing and Information Technology
<ColonelPanic001> http://computing.wayne.edu/
<brousch> Chromiumbook?
<nezsez> NSABackup, store your data AND have a luxury, ultra-secure, one room hotel visit
<ColonelPanic001> nezsez++
<nezsez> hey, you can't increment that way!!
<ColonelPanic001> ++nezsez
<nezsez> colonel: do you code, or mostly do addmin stuff
<nezsez> LOL
<nezsez> nezsez+= nezsez + 1
<ColonelPanic001> nezsez: both, but mostly code. My title is "systems integrator", so it's more like "just make this work k thx"
<nezsez> i've actually seen someone try to do that type o line <sigh>
<ColonelPanic001> my department of maybe 12 people or so is probably half admin-types and half programmer types
<nezsez> LOL yes i know what you mean
<nezsez> no DBA types?
<ColonelPanic001> so lately I've been tyring to get old order data into a new ecommerce site, for example. Lots of "hey this order looks screwed up, might want to fix that" and not as much code anymore
<ColonelPanic001> but it comes and goes
<ColonelPanic001> nezsez: whole other department of DBAs
<nezsez> ah
<snap-l> They're developer DBAs. :)
<snap-l> DevBA
<nezsez> you can just call em' Deva :)
<ColonelPanic001> Â¬_Â¬
<nezsez> you guys using cognos, Peoplesoft, Banner (or whatever it's name du jour is ) ?
<nezsez> AD or LDAP/kerb?
<snap-l> I haven't been in the same room as Cognos since I worked at Chrysler
<snap-l> never did anything with it
<ColonelPanic001> Banner. The horror, the horror.
<nezsez> I'd have to go thru hell with banner and cognos each semester
<nezsez> we had massive probs with the migration from techRIM/FIS to banner....made by the same damn company too <sigh>
<snap-l> I think just firing them up is enough to raise the ambient room temperature to mostly boiling
<nezsez> LOL, peoplesoft is just as bad FTR
<nezsez> I've seen secretaries literally screaming in a public place due to Banner
<nezsez> a faculty member once told me that he'd seen an actual fistfight break out about peoplesoft
<ColonelPanic001> haha
<nezsez> colonel: how many students does WSU have roughly?
<nezsez> snap-l: did you ever work at a univ?
<ColonelPanic001> nezsez: undergrad? not sure, probably 27,000-30,000 total
<ColonelPanic001> for the entire university
<nezsez> I didn't realize it was that big, I thought it was *much* smaller
<ColonelPanic001> is large.
<nezsez> TTU is 40k+
<ColonelPanic001> remember ours is the largest single-campus medical school in the country. Or so I'm told. For example
<nezsez> I did not know that
<ColonelPanic001> Founded in 1868, Wayne State University is a nationally recognized metropolitan research institution offering more than 370 academic programs through 13 schools and colleges to nearly 29,000 students. Wayne Stateâs main campus in Midtown Detroit comprises 100 buildings over 200 acres; its six extension centers offer higher education to students throughout Southeast Michigan.
<ColonelPanic001> http://wayne.edu/facts/pdfs/factbook2013.pdf
<ColonelPanic001> never saw this before
<ColonelPanic001> there's some other metrics in there
<ColonelPanic001> oh, sorry
<nezsez> LOL
<ColonelPanic001> I was way off
<brousch> Specializing in gunshot and stabbing victims
<ColonelPanic001> 2012 had 19k undergrads, 28.9k total
<nezsez> close enough :)
<nezsez> is the crime rate really high on campus?
<ColonelPanic001> on campus? no
<ColonelPanic001> we have our own police department which is pretty great, and 1984-like cameras that cover pretty much the entirety of Midtown
<nezsez> LOL it's like U of H in TX; campus is beautiful, nice, but cross the street and you better have kevlar
<ColonelPanic001> a fellow student and I used to jokingly call it "the green zone"
<ColonelPanic001> but yeah
<ColonelPanic001> WSUPD officers are all licensed as Detroit officers, too. None of that "oops he got away" because it's a little off campus. They patrol areas near but not strictly on campus, too
<nezsez> at TTU, the campus cops are actually state cops, they have jurisdiction everywhere
<ColonelPanic001> I've been told, but not researched it myself, that WSU has a lower crime rate than U-M Ann Arbor and many others
<ColonelPanic001> nice
<nezsez> well nice if they are good cops :)
<brousch> My brother in law is one of them
<nezsez> your brother in law works at TTU as a cop?
<brousch> Wayne State
<nezsez> or is a good cop?
<nezsez> ah cool
<ColonelPanic001> never really interacted with the police here, couldn't say much about them
<ColonelPanic001> other than if you're on the main campus, they're everywhere
<ColonelPanic001> not even counting the cameras
<nezsez> colonel: has your IT dept established policies/procedures for Incidence Response and legal issues?
<nezsez> as in tampering with evidence issues, ownership of data in case of death, those sorts of things?
<ColonelPanic001> I would expect so, but I don't honestly know
<nezsez> I ask because I've been stunned with the number of univs that have no actual procedures for IT to follow in such cases
<ColonelPanic001> "I just work here". heh
<ColonelPanic001> yeah, if asked, I would just go ask my boss. I don't know.
<ColonelPanic001> try not to die
<nezsez> well word of warning, if there is a breach, and you unplug the network cable (much less shut the machine down), you can be held accountable for tampering with or destroying evidence
<nezsez> if there is an investigation later
<ColonelPanic001> I do nothing of importance anyway, don't worry
<nezsez> brb
<nezsez> back
<nezsez> are any of the other local users groups like the ann arbor computing thing, or the python users group worth cecking into?
<brousch> nezsez: Are you in Ann Arbor?
 * nezsez just moved to MI
<brousch> There are makerspaces everywhere
<nezsez> I'm in Canton for the time being till I find a house
<ColonelPanic001> MUG, MDLUG, Omnicorp Detroit, etc, etc
<ColonelPanic001> WSULUG, I have to mention, too, of course
<nezsez> I passed the Wayne state lug cause it's info was so out of date I assumed it was defunct
<nezsez> I joined the mug, and mdlug maillists
<nezsez> they admin of the UofM lug told me today that they were still active
<nezsez> I missed the maker fair in Detroit the other weekend sadly
<ColonelPanic001> haha, WSULUG is in a state of "a lot of us all work here and talk in #waynestatelug, but don't officially meet much, until someone gets it going"
<ColonelPanic001> hopefully maybe this fall we'll get some meetings
<brousch> ColonelPanic001: Similar to GRLUG
 * nezsez wonders if the colonpanic nick is taken
 * WARNING ***Colon Panic imminent***
<jrwren> rick_h: have you looked into dokku ?
<jrwren> ColonelPanic001: do you work with Kevin Hayes?
<ColonelPanic001> in the same building, I've met him
<ColonelPanic001> but not really
<greg-g> jcastro: does your x230 wifi work? http://askubuntu.com/questions/109260/how-do-i-get-an-intel-ultimate-6300-n-working
<rick_h> jrwren: yea, looked at it, not used it
<rick_h> keeping an eye on it. <3 the idea
<jrwren> same here.
<greg-g> who has an x230 here?
<rick_h> greg-g: oh oh me me me me
<greg-g> rick_h: how's the wifi?
<greg-g> which card do you have?
<rick_h> greg-g: I don't have any issues with it
<greg-g> (mind doing an lspci?)
<rick_h> sec, it's upstairs and on a call
<greg-g> ah, sorry
<rick_h> greg-g: np
<_stink_> jrwren: do you know Kevin?  we like to leave him dns queries like kevinhayesforpresident.com
<ColonelPanic001> hah
<snap-l> nezsez: I worked at Wayne State for a while in the college of engineering
<snap-l> that was 20 years ago
<snap-l> And now I'm old
<greg-g> snap-l: not true
<greg-g> snap-l: you were before you said that.
<snap-l> greg-g: Thank you
<snap-l> greg-g: Please form an orderly queue where you may partake in placing your lips on my posterior
<jrwren> yes, I know kevin. I worked with him at ou when he was student employee there.
<greg-g> snap-l: :P
<jrwren> i turn 36 tomorrow. I'm just a young kid still.
<snap-l> Good lord, Carlo is still at WSU
<_stink_> jrwren: cool.  Kevin gives entertaining presentations too.
<jrwren> he was always a pretty fun guy.
<nezsez> doh, sorry snap, got lost in another channel :)
<nezsez> bbl
<brousch> jrwren: I thought you were about 5 years younger
<greg-g> man, how old do you think I am, brousch ?
<brousch> 35
<greg-g> and jrwren is 31.... odd
<brousch> The beard makes you look older
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> without the beard I look 18
<greg-g> rick_h: any word yet on your wifi chipset?
<rick_h> greg-g: will go look now.
<rick_h> greg-g: http://paste.mitechie.com/show/1001/
<greg-g> oh, huh, the option now is a centrino 6300
<greg-g> hope it still works in debian :)
<widox> greg-g: I have 03:00.0 Network controller: Intel Corporation Centrino Ultimate-N 6300 (rev 35)
<widox> not an X series, but it works ok
<greg-g> widox: ahh, and it works?
<greg-g> sweet!
 * greg-g tells work to buy him an x230 :)
<widox> woohoo
<snap-l> Evening
<snap-l> greg-g: Awesome! Hope you have better luck with this laptop
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-08-13
<nezsez> anyone going to the mug meeting tomorrow?
<rick_h> some people will be there. don't think I can make it out though
<nezsez> rick_h which distrib do you prefer?
<snap-l> rick_h: Bummer
<snap-l> Do you need a note from your dcotor to make it out?
<snap-l> ;)
<rick_h> nezsez: I'm a bit of an ubuntu fan though I've also run arch and enjoyed it :)
<rick_h> snap-l: yea, she's spent all day sick from 'food poisoning' collected at the kid rock concert with her 'girls' last night and we've got a weekend trip to cadillac to get ready for
<nezsez> yeah I should play with arch, and mint too I suppose
<rick_h> CHC is about all I can do this week me thinks
<rick_h> ugh on the whole mint thing
<snap-l> rick_h: Hope she feels better
<rick_h> snap-l: yea, she's getting better tonight
<rick_h> just raced the rain to get the lawn caught up
<snap-l> Heh
<rick_h> barely won that one, though the rain is coming down before I could spray off the mower and get it put away :/
<nezsez> what city you in rick?
<rick_h> nezsez: clarkston area, by DTE
<nezsez> DTE?
<rick_h> DTE music theater?
<rick_h> it's the only thing around people recognize usually
<nezsez> ah, well I just moved here I don't know where anything is really :)
<snap-l> Used to be called Pine Knob
<rick_h> ah, gotcha
<nezsez> ah by waterford
<rick_h> nezsez: rgr
<nezsez> how long does it take to drive from there to ann arbor?
<nezsez> you know in good weather/traffic
<rick_h> ugh, about 1.2-1.5hrs
<nezsez> ouch
<rick_h> yea, not a bad drive, but rough for school nights
<nezsez> so you didn't like mint?
<nezsez> you a student?
<rick_h> sorry, shorthand for 'weeknights'
<nezsez> ah IC
<rick_h> I don't like 'distros' that are installing a diff window manager
<nezsez> all the students i worked with were ditching ubuntu in favour of mint or arch
<rick_h> arch is put together differently and I respect that
<nezsez> diff from unity, or gnome-shell/gnome3, kde?
<rick_h> mint is more "I don't like unity...let's call it a new distro"
<nezsez> oh LOL yeah i know what you mean
<rick_h> I run ubuntu, I install and setup AwesomeWM, it's not a new distro
<rick_h> apt-get install cinnimon does not a distro make imo
<rick_h> but meh, whatever
<nezsez> there's a post on slashdot with some guys doing the same thing....one commented "yet another distro based on a distro distro"
<nezsez> I really don't like unity too much, or gnome3-shell either
<rick_h> I try not to talk that path too much. ubuntu is based on debian
<nezsez> yes it is
<nezsez> i'm trying to decide what to replace fedora 19 with
<rick_h> but when you use ubuntu you're not hitting debian repos, it's setup differently. The kernel is different, the tools installed are different, many packages are different.
<nezsez> LOL, yeah I know
<nezsez> i've run ubuntu since sometime before 9.04, on clusters, with hadoop/mahout, etc
<nezsez> i've run debian on sparc and instel
<nezsez> er intel
<nezsez> gentoo on sparc and intel
<nezsez> yellowdog on ps3 (clustered to another ps3 actually)
<nezsez> i'm tempted to go debian, but I thought I'd try something different
<nezsez> and mint/arch seem to have a bit of traction at the moment
<rick_h> Blazeix: run's arch in here
<rick_h> greg-g: is a debian guy, most of the rest are ubuntu folks
<nezsez> ah IC
<nezsez> i'm waiting to see what will happen with the ubuntu phone thing too :)
<nezsez> rick_h: sry if i forgot, but you code right?
<rick_h> nezsez: yes, I work on https://jujucharms.com/ right now
<nezsez> ah i've heard of that
<nezsez> are these charms as in win8 charms?
<nezsez> oh ensemble
<rick_h> umm, no
<nezsez> IC
<rick_h> juju/ubuntu stuff
<brousch> Ubuntu is the best. Install you favorite DE or WM
<nezsez> rick: have you played with Go?
<nezsez> hola brousch
<rick_h>  nezsez heh, so I've looked but just got through changing teams at work today to avoid Go
<brousch> Uh oh, what's the new team?
<nezsez> you changed teams just to avoid Go???
<rick_h> nezsez: well, little more complicated, but yea part of it
 * rick_h likes doing web dev stuff
<nezsez> LOL
<brousch> Py4life!
<rick_h> python + js + web
<nezsez> ah, no EAGAIN errno for you then!
<rick_h> nope
<rick_h> try: except: all the way
<nezsez> LOL
<nezsez> raise :)
<nezsez> my neighbor got switched to a new team a few days ago, to work on the graphics of a UI
<nezsez> today he asked them what he could do to help (it's a C++ shop)....they said..
<nezsez> "could you go through the code and find all the dead/unused stuff?"  LOL
<nezsez> I mean you know, they got tools for that <sigh>
<nezsez> so are you using juju in conjunction with ec2 and that sorta thing for scaling as well?
<rick_h> so we use juju internally for an openstack cloud, but the charms and such are tested against ec2 and hp public cloud
<nezsez> ah, i have a friend who's working on openstack at hp
<rick_h> cool, few of our folks went over there in the last year
<greg-g> nezsez: debian is the one true community ;)
<rick_h> <3 debian
<nezsez> yeah he was at Sun (glassfish), then Oracle, now hp
<rick_h> my first linux love
<nezsez> for the last few years, Debian has been my goto OS
<nezsez> they still have a sparc port :)
<nezsez> in the 90's, early 2000's i disliked Debian because it dragged so far behind
<nezsez> they were still using gcc 2.7.2 forever
<nezsez> nowdays, they are doing great
<nezsez> mandrake/mandriva made a come back not too long ago right?  What are they called now?
<nezsez> hrm, looks like they are mandriva again
<snap-l> Good morning
<brousch1> yes
<rick_h> morning
<brousch1> Someone brought in donuts today, but they taste like they were fried in fish oil
<snap-l> brousch1: Cod Liver FTW
<snap-l> Are you sure they're not actually battered shrimp?
<jrwren> GOOD MORNING
<snap-l> Happy Birthday jrwren
<brousch1> For the birthday boy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3a5pFbpjSY
<jrwren> thanks snap-l
<jrwren> thanks brousch1
<rick_h> well now I look like a copy cat...but happy birthday jrwren. Here's to cake and party time!
<brousch1> My Ting phone shipped yesterday
<jrwren> thanks rick_h
<snap-l> brousch1: Awesome!
<snap-l> http://www.freep.com/article/20130808/FEATURES01/308080174
<brousch1> Nobody is going to rub their boogers on those filling stations
<snap-l> Then bring your own water. :)
<snap-l> I think it's a pretty bold move
<rick_h> exactly, it's a great place because you can bring your own cooler
<ColonelPanic001> good. Bottled water is stupid.
<greg-g> ColonelPanic001++
<rick_h> ColonelPanic001: you have city water?
<ColonelPanic001> we have runnning water, yes
<greg-g> indoor plumping? whoa!
<rick_h> heh, yea running != city
<rick_h> but I do find more people that are anti bottled water are city vs well water
<ColonelPanic001> ah, yeah, city water
<rick_h> "I have access to lots of great filtered cleaned water so having that in a bottle is stupid" :)
<greg-g> yeah, carrie's parents who live in Chelsea, MI, who have well water, buy the big water bottles for their drinking water
<rick_h> greg-g: yep, we do it here as well
<greg-g> luckily, the majority of the us population lives near city water :)
<rick_h> rotate two 3gal containers that we fill at the store
 * greg-g nods
<rick_h> greg-g: I guess most of my family runs on well water so it seems more common to me
<greg-g> so, that's less expensive than buying a really good filter?
<greg-g> I always wondered that
<rick_h> greg-g: yea, .33c a gallon
 * greg-g nods
<rick_h> so $1-2 bucks a week?
<brousch1> We got a whole-house filtration and softening system. Showering anywhere else makes me feel sticky
<rick_h> we've got a basic filter and a new softening system, but I'm still not a fan of our water for drinking.
<rick_h> and to get a big r/o system would be pricey and require more maint.
<rick_h> we even take a nice 6L bladder out when we go camping as well, works out nicely
<brousch1> I love our home water
<brousch1> Everyone who visits us loves it too
<jcastro> jrwren: hey you tested that doc submission thing with juju/go on osx?
<rick_h> ahhh, must not get another freaking keyboard...butbutbut http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/p/sculpt-ergonomic-desktop/L5V-00001#details
<greg-g> rick_h: hey, you like your yubi key thingy?
<rick_h> greg-g: <3 yubi-key nano best thing ever
<snap-l> rick_h: Oh hell no
<rick_h> snap-l: :P
<snap-l> Also, this afternoon's playlist is all from 1992
<snap-l> or at least the 1992 year in the Squeezebox
<snap-l> Starting with The Art of Rebellion
<snap-l> brousch1: You gave me an idea to create a Subreddit for MUG
<brousch1> make it so
<snap-l> I have. It's private at the moment
<snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/michiganusergroup/
<brousch1> The name sounds like it's for people who use Michigan
<brousch1> Maybe drug users in MI?
<snap-l> Heh
<brousch1> bunch of potheads, most likely
<brousch1> Hey, man. Do you use?
<brousch1> (Actual quote from my upstairs neighbor in college"
<greg-g> I use.... deoderant
<snap-l>  is that what the kids are calling it?
<brousch1> Probably the next huffing fad
<snap-l> *sniiiiiiiiiiff* Riiiiight guuuuuaaard
<snap-l> Gooooood shiiiiiit maaaaaaaaaaaaan.
<snap-l> Artic Breeze FTW
<snap-l> I think I know who previously had my phone number
<rick_h> my bad :P
<snap-l> Someone just changed their phone number, and I got SMS messages to that effect.
<rick_h> ugh, this cancer dr story is hitting national attenion now :/
<snap-l> ?
<jjesse> ?
<rick_h> http://www.freep.com/article/20130813/NEWS03/308130110/Fata-bond-hearing-cancer
<rick_h> shows up under US news on google news with links to articles in st lous and out in california
<rick_h> erica's practice worked with this guy, she's got patients of hers as part of this mess
<rick_h> she's furious and now the story is getting national attention :/
<snap-l> Lovely
<snap-l> Is this guy a flight-risk?
<rick_h> no idea, I tried to stay out of it tbh
<rick_h> but just happened to see it on a quick news.google.com hit
<snap-l> Well, 9.4mil is newsworthy as a bond
<rick_h> some loved ones of patients that didn't make it are looking for blood. Some calling Erica asking about him. uncomfortable questions
<snap-l> usually that's reserved for pretty hardened folks
<brousch1> Nasty stuff
<snap-l> OK, riddle me this: Random Years shuffle on the Squeezebox
<brousch1> I hope you can stay out of it
<snap-l> can't pick the year to randomize things out of, it just essentially picks random songs from all years
<snap-l> which makes no damn sense.
<rick_h> brousch1: yea, unfortunately her practice worked with him a lot and wanted to bring him on board so there were enough relationships that it's hitting close to home
<snap-l> ouch
<brousch1> Portland is looking better!
<rick_h> lol
<snap-l> hush you
<rick_h> erica's been trying to convince me portalnd would be no fun
<rick_h> "Look at this weather, it's all drizzly, and grey, and chilly"
<rick_h> and all I can do is respond "isn't it great!"
<brousch1> I love that weather!
<rick_h> I've been so happy lately with the weather. Been a great few weeks
<brousch1> The sun doesn't burn my skin and hurt my eyes
<brousch1> Hm, I can put ubuntu touch on my old phone when the new one arrives, but no wifi will be a bit of a bummer https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices/i_vzw
<greg-g> man, flashback, just thought about compiz fusion's crazy ass animations
<greg-g> boy were we not taken seriously back then ;)
<snap-l> Yeah, now we're completely taken seriously
<greg-g> well.... I mean, we're at least not actively laughed at, right? right?!?
<brousch1> Heh, I looked all over github for my old project only to realize it's on Sourceforge, and uses Mercurial
<greg-g> brousch1: you poor soul
<greg-g> though, I do use bzr for my personal dotfile and scripts repos still
<snap-l> greg-g: Migrate
<greg-g> why?
<snap-l> Friends don't let friends use BZR
<greg-g> hey, I happen to like bzr
<greg-g> it's ui/commands just make fucking sense, unlike git, which likes to beat its users every chance it gets
<greg-g> but, you know, stockholm syndrome and all that
<snap-l> That's because git has one thing bzr doesn't have
<snap-l> enlightenment. :)
<greg-g> LINUS MIDDLE FINGER
<greg-g> +"'s"
<snap-l> That middle finger is pointing the way, my good sir
<snap-l> He's the fucking fuck-you Buddha
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h> I wrote two articles on bzr for python magazine (when there was a python magazine) and I say bzr ugh!
<snap-l> Listen to enlightenment's avatar
<snap-l> save for that ergo keyboard crap. he's full of shit on that
<brousch1> I forgot about Python mag. I subscribed and they never released another issue
<snap-l> but the rest is pure enlightenment
<greg-g> rick_h: :P
<rick_h> it was my one publishing experience so I hold onto it still
<snap-l> Well, the tiled window manager stuff is a bit naff as well
<snap-l> but the rest is pure enlightenment
<rick_h> snap-l: come on, just quit fighting it. You'll end up there soon
<rick_h> I've got one of the guys on my new team settings up zsh + tmux + vim over the last two days
<snap-l> two out of three is awesome. :)
<rick_h> and I've only been on the team 2 days! bwuhahahahaha, strike again
<brousch1> So what's the new team?
<rick_h> Juju UI
<brousch1> Isn't that the old team?
<rick_h> basically the team I was on loan to for hte last 6months
<brousch1> oh
<rick_h> so rather than moving on with the rest of my team, I'm staying put to make pretty things for jcastro
<rick_h> like pretty autocomplete boxes http://comingsoon.jujucharms.com/
<jcastro> MAN
<jcastro> that looks awesome
<rick_h> jcastro: yea, came out ok. Will be cool on the next release
<greg-g> but I can't arrow down and select one of the autocompleted items?
<rick_h> greg-g: arrow keys are evil!
<greg-g> mouse is more!
<rick_h> greg-g: hmm, will have to look at that.
<greg-g> you failed me, rick_h .
<rick_h> greg-g: but mouse is in the middle of home row
<greg-g> giving in to the mouse brigade ;)
<rick_h> thinkpad!
<greg-g> not on my kinesis
<greg-g> (gawd I want that on my kinesis)
<rick_h> hah, well good point. I would have said it would work, but didn't test it
<greg-g> you know, I do miss the days of being on planet.ubuntu.com ;)
<rick_h> greg-g: :) always able to come back you know. <3
<greg-g> awww
<greg-g> I should really get myself on planet.wikipedia.org
<mathomastech> Interesting and simple looking editor. Anyone use it?
<mathomastech> http://brackets.io/
<rick_h> nope, vim or bust
<snap-l> Howdy
<greg-g> what's the default disk encryption system in debian? trucrypt? ecryptfs?
<greg-g> or ubuntu, for that matter :)
<snap-l> nfc. I thought it was pgp
<Blazeix> mathomastech: that's from adobe, right?
<Blazeix> came out a while ago, adobe tries as hard as possible to downplay their involvement
<mathomastech> Blazeix: Yea, it is adobe. It's not clear on their website at all, but wikipedia has them listed. It's available for linux now, hence why it fought my attention.
<Blazeix> yeah, i wouldn't really trust adobe to do anything well
<snap-l> or longterm
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-08-14
<mathomastech> Blazeix: What was that javascript blocker that you were talking about at lunch?
<snap-l> noscript?
<Blazeix> ghostery
<Blazeix> mathomastech: ^^
<snap-l> rick_h: btw: Dream Cruise is on today
<rick_h> snap-l: ugh
<rick_h> snap-l: so yea, only problem is a fallback spot since our old place is closed up now.
<snap-l> Well, one thought was the Barnes and Noble on John R.
<snap-l> http://weedpecker.bandcamp.com/album/weedpecker-2
<rick_h> those still exist?
<snap-l> weedpeckers or Barnes and Noble?
<rick_h> B&N
<snap-l> Yeah, they're still around
<rick_h> well there's a starbucks down the street a bit
<snap-l> Yeah, and it's still on Woodward
<rick_h> and back up north a bit into downtown
<snap-l> aka Clusterfuck
<rick_h> yea, not been to it so can't say, but might as well try it I guess
<snap-l> Um, it was a complete stop and go traffic the last time I drove through the Dream Cruise
<rick_h> right, sorry what was I thinking
 * rick_h sips on coffee more
<snap-l> I was ready to kill people. :)
<rick_h> starbucks up on 16mi I've been to a couple of times
<rick_h> off I75
<snap-l> Yeah, I remember that one
<rick_h> that's farther than widox
<rick_h> farther for widox I mean
<snap-l> Over by Sommerset (or at least approaching it)
<rick_h> :/
<rick_h> right, between 75/sommerset
<rick_h> ok, well I'll go with that and just try to spread the word as much as possible. Sorry everyone, but battling the dream cruise sucks
<brousch> MCDonald's has coffee
<snap-l> Yeah, no kidding
<snap-l> brousch: So does Ram's Horn
<snap-l> and I think they'll make coffee at Russ'
<brousch> I have no idea what Ram's Horn is
<rick_h> brousch: it's a big-boy like place
<snap-l> It's like a greek restaurant greasy spoon with lighting
<brousch> Sounds good
<rick_h> ok, please spread the word. widox Blazeix https://plus.google.com/116120911388966791792/posts/5gKb9LAzV9J
<brousch> You should rent a van and have mobile CHC while you do the dream cruise
<snap-l> brousch: They have pie at Ram's Horn
<snap-l> In one of those desert thingies
<rick_h> brousch: heh, park my camper in the parking lot
<snap-l> maybe it'll shut your piehole. :)
<brousch> I'm just being helpful!
<brousch> See, now rick_h has a viable idea
<rick_h> ooh, my stickers have shipped. So for next week's CHC we'll have bookie stickers
<snap-l> rick_h: Really?
<snap-l> That's awesome!
<rick_h> yea, wanted them for the sprint, but will take them for CHC
<rick_h> lol https://twitter.com/Earth_Pics/status/367393918549127168
<snap-l> heh
<widox> ugh, Dream Cruise
<rick_h> widox: yea, sorry for the extra miles :(
<widox> maybe I'll do a downtown Detroit CHC branch
<rick_h> widox: cool
<widox> I was wondering when it was actually, felt like it had to be soon
<rick_h> widox: yea, some people were working on one. Wasn't ColonelPanic001 doing one?
<rick_h> thought he had a couple of people regularly for a while
<widox> he was apart of the Downriver one
<widox> iirc
<rick_h> ah, that's right.
<rick_h> downriver vs detroit proper
<widox> also, the new google maps is still slow as hell
<rick_h> widox: yea, and I couldn't find a way to get a good short link any more
<widox> had to switch back. wasn't even getting any map tiles loading :-/
<rick_h> oh, wasn't that bad for me
<rick_h> I do wish it would quit opening to the whole USA when I launch it
<rick_h> start where I'm at darn it, or my home location you've got stored
<Blazeix> thanks rick_h, also pinging lmorchard and trevlar for this weeks new CHC location: https://plus.google.com/116120911388966791792/posts/5gKb9LAzV9J
<rick_h> Blazeix: ah, good call. Thanks
<trevlar> cool thanks
<ColonelPanic001> yeah, we kinda-sorta have a Downriver CHC going
<brousch> What is downriver?
<brousch> Dearborn?
<ColonelPanic001> nein
<ColonelPanic001> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downriver
<snap-l> Allen Park is close enough to Dearborn to be considered Downriver
<snap-l> (swap around to make sense if needed)
<ColonelPanic001> yeah, Allen Park is downriver
<ColonelPanic001> Dearborn's kinda sorta
<ColonelPanic001> maybe
<snap-l> http://www.starbucks.com/store/18275 <- This Starbucks, right?
<Blazeix> snap-l: yep
<snap-l> kk
<_stink_> hah, "oven-warmed food"
<Blazeix> caribou isn't much better, unfortunately. "oh, you want a sandwich? let me open this shrinkwrapped sandwhich-like-item and stick it in the oven"
<Blazeix> s/sandwhich/sandwich/
<rick_h> yea, I can't eat food at coffee shops
<brousch> Well they're coffee shops, not delis
<rick_h> thankfully caribou has a sub shop next door
<snap-l> Yeah, the one for CHC has Potbelly which is A+
<snap-l> And the pretzels at Barnes and Noble will do in a pinch
<brousch> Is potbelly good? One just opened between the new chipotle and 5 guys by my house
<snap-l> I <3 Potbelly
<snap-l> It's a sub, but it's different than other places
<brousch> We tried to go to the new 5 guys last night, but it was crazy packed with a line out the door
<snap-l> so if you go there thinking you'll get Subway or Jimmy Johns you won't be impressed
<snap-l> yeah, the one out in Clinton Township was crazy busy when they opened
<brousch> So it's lower quality than jimmy johns?
<Blazeix> i wouldn't say that. it's like a subway that's been panera-ized
<snap-l> Yeah, it's different
<Blazeix> i like it more than jimmy johns
<snap-l> Me too
<brousch> toasted?
<brousch> website looks good
<rick_h> I like potbelly more than jimmy johns usually
<brousch> I don't care for chipotle. Everything is bland and there's no queso
<snap-l> Yeah, it's just different. It's easier to describe once you've been there
<snap-l> My personal favorite is the wreck on wheat with everything
<snap-l> Including the hot peppers
<snap-l> and the hot peppers are medium heat
<brousch> Now that I'm starving, time for lunch
<snap-l> same here
<greg-g> yay! I get to unsubscribe from this annoying bug! https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/954661 cc jcastro :)
<jcastro> NICE!
<greg-g> jcastro: because my XPS was stolen! (did you see that?) :) so I got work to get me a real laptop (x230)
<jcastro> hahaha man
<jcastro> that is awesome
<greg-g> :)
<brousch> "stolen"
<greg-g> brousch: yeah, mine and the guy's who sits next to me
<greg-g> they were remodeling all last week, so I worked from random coffee shops with my personal (x200s) laptop and left the work one on my desk. I got into the office on monday and they were missing
<greg-g> the door over here near the corner of the office was probably propped open all last week, and no one was really on this side of the office very often (they just repainted the columns)
<greg-g> there were probably tons of people in/out all week, who knows who it was
<brousch> nice
<brousch> http://raspberry.io/projects/
<brousch> Troll Poll http://raspberry.io/projects/view/raspberry-poll/
<snap-l> http://raspberry.io/projects/view/raspberry-pi-laptop/
<brousch> I have that. Almost the exact same setup
<snap-l> I really hate these "~$125 total" projects that are actually $250+ because the lapdock is a $250 device
<snap-l> $259.99
<brousch> $80
<brousch> I got mine for $80
<snap-l> Ah, I see
<snap-l> The used ones are $70ish
<brousch> They don't make them any more, haven't for like 2 years
<brousch> So new ones are what's left in stock somewhere
<rick_h> ok, someone else please tell me this is in slow-mo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNFnWH2-JyA
<rick_h> my video settings says I'm at 'normal' speed
<rick_h> bah, works in FF, chrome was confused
<rick_h> jcastro: typing too loud getting auto-muted lol
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> that's me!
<rick_h> we get that in stand ups all the time
<rick_h> gary tries to take notes and ends up muted for the whole bit
<greg-g> google hangouts, the best and worth thing to happen to distributed teams
<rick_h> yea
<rick_h> they have made it nice though <3
<rick_h> lot better than that mumble voice only crap
<brousch> Looking at Python formatted so badly it would make rick_h vomit https://github.com/brousch/WaznexServer/blob/master/gridsplitter/slice.py
<brousch> dat line length
<_stink_> oo, and look, parens in an if statement
<brousch> C programmer
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-08-15
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h> IE morning
<snap-l> Ugh
<rick_h> this made me laugh more than it should have https://twitter.com/_cz/status/368002985516736512
<snap-l> rick_h: Heh
<snap-l> Just goes to show that even the smallest project can have bugs
<greg-g> Fx morning
<greg-g> (is that the pattern?)
<rick_h> greg-g: heh, naw. It's not that slow or odd
<greg-g> IE?
<rick_h> IE is that broken
<rick_h> we're on a "Make IE10 work" bug rush this week
<rick_h> so yay me
<rick_h> though I had a fit when I read http://benjaminkerensa.com/2013/08/14/firefox-to-remain-default-very-nice especially "As you are probably aware Firefox is actually in most recent benchmarks showing superior performance over other browsers."
<rick_h> so many assumptions with so little data...gotta love how anyone can post anything
<greg-g> it's benjamin, after all. Run on sentences don't just write themselves, you know.
<rick_h> hah
<greg-g> sorry, he's a nice enough guy, just man, grammar.
<rick_h> one of these days I need to get on the planet
<greg-g> take my spot ;)
<rick_h> hah
<rick_h> "Hello, my name is greg rickmesser and today I want to talk about browser performance falacies"
<greg-g> hehe
<greg-g> w00t! I'm getting a fancy desk!
<rick_h> sweet
<rick_h> new toys for greg-g !
<greg-g> :)
<Blazeix> what's the current google apps account status? is it flawless integration with personal google accounts?
<Blazeix> or is still kind of iffy? I've heard people have all sorts of issues with it
<rick_h> huh?
<rick_h> goole apps status for what?
<rick_h> oh, the account switching stuff?
<Blazeix> there are two types of accounts, personal, and google apps, right?
<Blazeix> anything I'd need to watch out for if i'm making a google apps account?
<Blazeix> basically i don't want to hose my personal account if i make a google apps account
<rick_h> so basically I log into my personal account first, then switch accounts and login into work account
<rick_h> it works ok for me
<rick_h> I do run into issues once in a while and I use an incognito window to get around it
<rick_h> ctrl-shift-n and then login and not worry about it
<rick_h> I try not to leave both logged in/open in the same apps at the same time
<snap-l> I'm currently in the unsubscribed from planet Ubuntu phase
<snap-l> and in the "couldn't care less about Edge" phase
<snap-l> Huh, quick scan of the front page makes me think I should resub to planet Ubuntu
<snap-l> Doesn't seem to be the echo chamber that I've grown accustomed
<snap-l> (to seeing)
<snap-l> Would someone riddle me how someone can charge over $20 more for the eBook than they're charging for the hardcover book?
<snap-l> http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/artificial-intelligence-for-games-ian-millington/1100526673?ean=9780080885032
<snap-l> And I'm sure they'll be the first to bitch that the eBook isn't selling
<rick_h> hah
<rick_h> have to make up the $$ somewhere
<snap-l> I'm sure the brain trust was hot that night
<greg-g> snap-l: "publisher logic"
<snap-l> The only thing that makes some sense is I think the ePub isn't the same as the Kindle (which is essentially a scanned PDF)
<brousch> I'm famous! http://us2.campaign-archive2.com/?u=e2e180baf855ac797ef407fc7&id=34ad3af7d4&e=5f5a97549c
<greg-g> ugh, campaing-archive2.com urls
<greg-g> with the g in the right spot
<brousch> Sorry
<snap-l> For this we demand a sacrifice
<snap-l> You must give me $229 + tax
<greg-g> the tax is at a 98% rate, and payable to me
<snap-l> Sure, why not
<brousch> :P
<snap-l> That's 453.42
<brousch> Anyways, my Kivy talk is in there, and I didn't submit it
<snap-l> woo hoo
<snap-l> That puts me in a generous mood. I'll only give greg-g 96%
<greg-g> .......
<snap-l> greg-g is speechless with delight
<greg-g> that's it
<snap-l> well this is interesting
<snap-l> can't seem to get to google from home
<brousch> bing it
<rick_h> snap-l: that's one heck of a drive. No wonder you're having trouble
<snap-l> Can't get to bing
<snap-l> Using home as a SSH proxy
<greg-g> google is everywhere, maaaaan
<snap-l> something is wonky with the net
<brousch> yahoo it
<greg-g> ya-who?
<snap-l> Hm, name resolver
<rick_h> "502 Â· NewsBlur is down" :(
<brousch>  67.63.58.147 it
<snap-l> Wonder if Google's name servers went for a toss?
<rick_h> I'm using 8.8.8.8 w/o issue
<rick_h> but newsblur having a network issue means I'd suspect some big pipes went boom?
<snap-l> OK, now things are coming back up
<greg-g> rick_h: newsblur works for me
<rick_h> ah, it's back yay
<snap-l> Yeah, I'm wondering if there was a DNS issue
<snap-l> because I could get to my sites, but that's because I ping them every 15 minutes
<snap-l> strange
<brousch> Why did none of you tell me?! http://barnsyard.com/2013/08/14/ann-arbor-institution-krazy-jims-blimpy-burger-has-served-its-last-ground-beef-masterpiece-for-now-anyway/
<snap-l> We didn't know
<brousch> Damnit. You guys are my East side connections
<greg-g> I did, and I live in SF
<greg-g> sorry for not informing you, brousch
 * greg-g saw via someone's instragram of them waiting in line for their last blimpy burger
<brousch> My reasons for visiting Ann Arbor have just been cut in half
<widox> hehe. I knew. they were charging like $100 to get a table for the last day
<widox> pretty crazy
<greg-g> seriously? insane
<widox> yeah, not seeing how its worth it. but i guess folks were there
<greg-g> "to say you did it"
<brousch> Totally worth it. There might never be another one, ever!
<brousch> Eat it. Save the turd the next day. Bronze it. Sell it for $1000 on ebay in 10 years.
<snap-l> 10 minutes
<brousch> Why does this not exist for Python? http://technical.io/
<snap-l> I think there's some work to do something like this under Python
<snap-l> but it looks like a nodejs server running on an embedded platform
<snap-l> with some libraries to make things happy
<widox> brousch: heard they are planning to open another one, but not definite plans yet
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-08-16
<rick_h> come on 60k!
<snap-l> ?
<snap-l> Ah, jujst saw the G+ pos
<snap-l> t
<rick_h> yea, vague to get interest up :P
<rick_h> sad for 3 or 4 year old project, but cool from a 'sideproject' state. Would love to hit 100k soon
<snap-l> I <3 that the crash daemon under Ubuntu is called "whoopsie"
<brousch> My car blew a hose or something at my son's daycare. I had to nurse it to the mechanic and then go back and clean up the chemical spill
<rick_h> ouch
<brousch> Better than tomorrow when we would've been stranded in battle creek
<rick_h> hah, good point. Always better to go boom on a weekday than weekend
<snap-l> Definitely.
<snap-l> May all car boom happen on the weekdays, in light traffic
<brousch> Would have been fun 2 weeks ago too. Could've been stranded in middle of nowhere OH
<brousch> Crap. They think it's the water pump, but they have to tear everything apart to confirm. Might as well do timing belt too
<snap-l> Ugh
<brousch> Next weekend we're camping in Traverse City. http://touch.woodtv.com/10000/76602713
<brousch> Also, I just noticed woodtv's mobile subdomain. Whoever chose that deserves a bravo
<greg-g> brousch: :P
<snap-l> Buncha repressed deviants, the west side is. ;)
<brousch> So true
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-08-17
<rick_h> party party
<rick_h> woot, first bookie take down request
<Blazeix> post to hn with little-guy-vs-corporation-clickbait title, instant publicity
<rick_h> hah!
<rick_h> it's some marteting firm 'on behalf of our client'
<rick_h> heh, speed test from cadillac. First time upload was faster than down
<rick_h> 4 down 9 up
<jrwren> jcastro: lol, you caught me on vaca, days ago. Yes, I tested that doc submission thing with juju/go on osx. its how I'm running juju
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h> morning
<snap-l> Someone is attacking one of my sites with auth logins
<snap-l> Practically ddosed my site
<brousch> Ting phone arrived yesterday. Damn Fedex left it on the front porch amongst the piled of mulch instead of the side porch
<rick_h> brousch: doh
<snap-l> brousch: That was nice of them
<snap-l> It was so hidden even you wouldn't find it.
<brousch> Porting number
<brousch> family reunion time
<snap-l> have fun!
<rick_h> nap time is hacking time woot
<snap-l> Heh
<snap-l> Lucked out at the Salvation Army today
<snap-l> Picked up a Yamaha YST-SW45 Subwoofer for ~$20
<snap-l> Which allowed me to put my Realistic Minimus 7s into the den with that Pyle PFA-200 Class T amp
<snap-l> Sounds awesome.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-08-18
<rick_h> snap-l: woot, sound ++
<rick_h> updated bookie with 'days ago' vs timestamp. Let me know what people think. I'm not a fan of the placement for your own bookmarks :/
<snap-l> I think the timestamp is fine
<rick_h> snap-l: so you liked the old date icon?
<rick_h> snap-l: with the timestamp on hover?
<snap-l> No, I mean what is there is fine (currently)
<rick_h> snap-l: ah, gotcha
<rick_h> coolio
<snap-l> Though now I want to click on it and see whatever I bookmarked on that day. :)
<rick_h> ah, interesting
<snap-l> Not that it's particularly useful
<rick_h> well file a bug if you keep that reaction
<snap-l> Nah, I'm OK
<rick_h> yea, but sometimes you need to meet expectations
<rick_h> ok, well lots of changes today so let me know if anything acts quirky. Should be mostly invisible but to new users
<rick_h> the date thing is the only 'big' change that everyone sees
<snap-l> I'll be sure to make a 15 page diatribe on how it sucks and put it on Hacker News
<snap-l> ;)
<rick_h> woot!
<rick_h> went through marking bugs/etc for sprint-able material as well
<snap-l> I know. :)
<rick_h> will probably post another email next week with some links/notes to bring it up again
<rick_h> hah
<snap-l> My RSS feed / Email let me know
<rick_h> I didn't really hit breadability though for your own interests
<snap-l> Yeah, I need to take a look at it
<rick_h> ah, I never know how much other people see in my activity on there.
<snap-l> haven't made the effort yet
<rick_h> yea, all good
<rick_h> had a nice campground nap time to work today. <3 sitting on the picnic table under the awning on a nice day
<snap-l> Got to take advantage of those weird windows of time. :)
<rick_h> morning
<brousch> yes
<rick_h> hah, looks like the date stuff needs some work. 'in 3 hrs derekv will bookmark...'
<brousch> My god! Bookie can see the future!
<rick_h> yea, it's cool like that
 * rick_h thinks we need to fix that UTC -> local time in the JS bug
<brousch> Time to mow the lawn
<rick_h> wheee
<snap-l> Howdy
<greg-g> want a way to make greg completely stressed and despressed? have him look for housing in an area that discriminates against families.
<rick_h> greg-g: :(
<rick_h> greg-g: michigan is pretty pro-family :P
<rick_h> but sucks you've hit such issues
<jrwren> greg-g: leave that hell mouth
<jrwren> hellmouth?
<brousch> If you think it's hard now, wait until Starfleet moves in
<jrwren> i thought they were in new san fran, read: old oakland
<greg-g> really want
<greg-g> to leave
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-08-11
<cmaloney> skellat: That sucks.
<cmaloney> Unfortunately we're driving down on Friday so Ubucon is likely out for us.
<skellat> cmaloney: Yeah, people weren't even interested if we asked for travel & lodging cash to be paid out of Canonical Community Budget for them.  I would have pushed hard for that and even then bupkis.
<skellat> I get to hone my skills for apologizing tonight during the OLF planning meeting I think.  I've been doing such a great job as an apologist on the telephone for $FederalAgency until I hit furlough.
<cmaloney> skellat: It's a useful skill. :)
<cmaloney> btw: is Ohio planning on having a booth at OLF?
<skellat> cmaloney: I don't think so.  There are no free booths anymore and the cost for the booth alone is high along with how long it takes me to get to Columbus cost-wise.
<skellat> I'd have to get money out of Canonical Community Budget for it and I don't have enough people to staff it.
<cmaloney> skellat: Understandable
<cmaloney> That's partly why I wanted to offer our resources
<cmaloney> I know we're both hurting for people now that Ubuntu is no longer the cool kid in town. :)
<skellat> For me to go down is akin to a trip from Utica to middle of the mitten
<skellat> s/Utica/Rochester Hills/
<cmaloney> ROchester -> Lansing. :)
<skellat> I was thinking in terms of distance.  I've done the trip from Rochester up to Central Michigan University and back in...January 2002, I think
<skellat> That was back during undergrad at Rochester College
<skellat> Ashtabula to Columbus is not a fun trip
<skellat> cmaloney: I need to go take care of some things but I'll wing you an e-mail after the OLF planning meeting tonight
<cmaloney> sounds good. Take care and TTYL!
<PhillyMelt02> Good morning
<cmaloney> Hello
<PhillyMelt02> how  are you today?
<PhillyMelt02> brb, diaper duty...
<cmaloney> Enjoy. :)
<cmaloney> Having a less diaper-filled day so far.
<PhillyMelt02> Back.  That wasn't too bad.
<PhillyMelt02> I was wondering if any knows of a linux expo held in michigan?
<PhillyMelt02> I used to live in Los Angeles and attended SCALE
<PhillyMelt02> Was wondering if anything like that existed here?
<cmaloney> PhillyMelt02: Closest would be Ohio Linuxfest which is a regional conference.
<cmaloney> http://ohiolinux.org
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/ielN4 - Ohio LinuxFest 2014 - The Future of Free | Free and Open Software Conference and Expo - Columbus, Ohio - October 24-26, 2014
<PhillyMelt02> Thanks.  I'll have to check it out.  Was hoping one would be a little closer to home but it is doable.
<cmaloney> We do have a local Linux / UNIX users group in the area as well
<cmaloney> http://mug.org
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/XzBZ0f - Michigan!/usr/group | mug.org â A Michigan-based Linux and UNIX Free and Open Source Community
<cmaloney> August meeting is tomorrow night
<jrwren> PhillyMelt02: could you describe SCALE?
<PhillyMelt02> http://www.socallinuxexpo.org
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/IaJ5tP - SCALE 12x
<PhillyMelt02> It was a multi-day event with exhibitors and speakers covering a wide range of topics.
<jrwren> penguicon!
<PhillyMelt02> SCALE was cool because you were free to attend the sessions/speakers you wanted without too much hassle.  No additional fees/registration required.
<jrwren> sounds like you should start one here.
<PhillyMelt02> From what I saw at SCALE it takes a monumental effort of many dedicated people.  I unfortunately don't have the time to take on something that ambitious.
<cmaloney> Yeah, apparently MUG tried one back in the old days
<cmaloney> It is still spoken of in hushed tones.
<cmaloney> and regarded as a "we won't be doing that again"
<cmaloney> event
<PhillyMelt02> That is too bad.  Hopefully MUG may change its mind in the future.
<cmaloney> This is a long, long time ago. Back when big iron roamed the earth
<cmaloney> I'm one of the current MUG board members as well.
<PhillyMelt02> Cool.  Thank you for volunteering your time.
<jrwren> Mug has been around for a long time. I think MUG tried it in the mid 90s
<jrwren> MUG has evolved nicely too. I remember around '00 they really were a unix group wiht not much linux focus. Lots of SCO people there.
<cmaloney> jrwren: Funny enough they're cleaning out one of the storage closets at work. They unearthed a SCO box
<cmaloney> I asked if I could take it to the shooting range.
 * cmaloney doesn't even normally shoot.
<PhillyMelt02> I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with the term SCO
<cmaloney> SCO was one of the first and most successful PC-based UNIX distributions
<jrwren> PhillyMelt02: SCO was a popular unix in the 80s and 90s. Linux ate its lunch
<PhillyMelt02> Ahh.  I wasn't introduced to unix/linux until I attended college in 2002.
<cmaloney> Unfortunately someone bought the name and IP and decided the best way to compete was to litigate
<cmaloney> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Cruz_Operation#Asset_sale
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/MRpse - Santa Cruz Operation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
<cmaloney> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_SCO_Group
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/VH8mjF - SCO Group - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
<cmaloney> Which is sad because Caldera was pretty nice.
<PhillyMelt02> Are the MUG meetings open to non-members?  I see there is a scheduled meeting tomorrow in Farmington Hills.
<cmaloney> Yep. Free as in beer as well
<jrwren> PhillyMelt02: there are literally countless user group meetings in the area.
<cmaloney> Well, there's two major ones
<cmaloney> MUG and MDLUG
<jrwren> PhillyMelt02: tonight is SEMJS in Ann Arbor, even if you don't use JS much, 100ish smart people go there for meet and greet.
<PhillyMelt02> Thank you for the invitation.  Unfortunately with my work schedule and the time to get to A2 I won't make it.
<PhillyMelt02> I went to UM in A2 so it would be nice to get back there for a visit.
<PhillyMelt02> Does SEMJS have regular monthly meetings?
<jrwren> yes.
<jrwren> see SEMJS on meetup.com
<jrwren> Where is your work?
<PhillyMelt02> I work from my home about 1.5 hours east of A2.
<PhillyMelt02> I do data entry/update for an investment management firm
<PhillyMelt02> So my work begins at 4PM when the stock market closes
<jrwren> ah. There are many detroit area groups.
<jrwren> http://www.meetup.com/cities/us/mi/detroit/tech/
<jrwren> Mobile Monday and Detroit Craftsman Build are particularlly good AFAIK
<jrwren> oh, and API Craft - they meet Thursday
<PhillyMelt02> Thanks for all the info.
<PhillyMelt02> I have been wanted to get involved for awhile.
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - ÐÑÐ¾ÑÐ¶ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ðµ by Invisible Devastation on ID EP
<brousch> cmaloney: I think I need to study defense or opening moves next. I feel like I'm flopping around blindly with those
<cmaloney> brousch: You too? :)
<cmaloney> This is definietly a game that rewards patience.
<cmaloney> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_opening_theory
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/M0yuvR - Go opening theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
<cmaloney> Well, driving home was fun
<brousch> did you try it with your eyes closed?
<greg-g> back in 'merica
<cmaloney> brousch: No, but we drove in this wet mess down to Dearborn
<cmaloney> many flooded roads
<brousch> How does a wet mess compare to a hot mess?
<cmaloney> a wet mess has a lot more cleanup
<greg-g> Robin Williams died :(
<greg-g> I found out because I just got a text from a coworker "Cluster is having load issues, mostly under control"
<greg-g> got online to learn it was due to his death (and the resulting spike in usage on WP)
<greg-g> same thing happened for Michael Jackson
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-08-12
<cmaloney> :(
<greg-g> oh man, and I just drove by where his house was (just north of the golden gate bridge)
<cmaloney> depression is a bitch
<greg-g> no shit man
<greg-g> I kinda can't concentrate on the post-mortem, ugh, wrong word, going on in our -operations channel
<cmaloney> Yeah, no kidding
<greg-g> we had to protect (effectively lock editing to a smaller number of people) his page to deal with the load spike. Each edit invalidates the cache, so when serving millions of users...
<greg-g> https://ganglia.wikimedia.org/latest/graph.php?r=hour&z=xlarge&title=MediaWiki+errors&vl=errors+/+sec&x=0.5&n=&hreg[]=vanadium.eqiad.wmnet&mreg[]=fatal|exception&gtype=stack&glegend=show&aggregate=1&embed=1
<cmaloney> I wonder if he knew
<greg-g> http://gdash.wikimedia.org/dashboards/reqwiki/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/ErjP6v - WMF stats
<greg-g> http://ganglia.wikimedia.org/latest/graph.php?r=day&z=xlarge&c=LVS+loadbalancers+eqiad&m=cpu_report&s=by+name&mc=2&g=network_report
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/FIOwDx - image/png
<cmaloney> Well, we got hit pretty hard with rain
<cmaloney> our basement flooded
<dickweed> D:
<dickweed> all the roads in detroit closed
<cmaloney> There was only a little bit of water, but we had boxes on the floor
<cmaloney> so they got soaked
<dickweed> woodward, 696, 75, most of royal oak, all of ferndale
<cmaloney> yeah
<dickweed> my cousin took a video of 2 guys kayaking down his road
<dickweed> good to hear there wasn't too much water in your house though
<dickweed> not a finished basement i hope?
<cmaloney> It used to be finished. All but one room is unfinished.
<cmaloney> It's very damp down there.
<dickweed> used to be finished? not sure i've ever seen a basement become unfinished
<dickweed> seems the opposite direction most people take
<cmaloney> Previous owners "unfinished" it.
<dickweed> hmm
<dickweed> maybe they needed more storage
<dickweed> Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<cmaloney> http://www.metalinjection.net/video/meshuggah-soul-train
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/vvhPfW - MESHUGGAH Soul Train | Metal Injection
<brousch> cmaloney: Gah, flooding is the worst
<brousch> Gotta clean it up before it molds
<brousch> It looks like you East siders really got pounded
<cmaloney> Yeah, we got hit, but fortunately we didn't get a lot of standing water.
<_stink_> we got it too
<_stink_> but we only had 2 inches in the basement
<_stink_> we have neighbors like 4 houses down who had their basement windows blow out and fill up right up to the first floor
<rick_h__> what's up?
<rick_h__> flooding?
<cmaloney> _stink_: Holy shit
<cmaloney> thankfully we only got some puddles
<cmaloney> and a little poot backup
<cmaloney> rick_h__: Yeah
<rick_h__> :/
<cmaloney> https://www.dropbox.com/sc/u6om3pv9xwcrxhz/AADnPs5Vhea7tvPMyDpeIXEVa
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/Wupc0s - Dropbox - flooded_Basement
<cmaloney> UNfortunately the pictures don't show the water very well
<cmaloney> Though I stupidly left a power-strip on the floor. Fortunately the water didn't get that far or things could have been interesting
<cmaloney> moved it last night
<cmaloney> brb
<cmaloney> Of course the beauty of this is were assured by $previousowner that this place never floods
<cmaloney> of course we got some above-average rain last night
<cmaloney> but the whole time JoDee is saying "there's no sump pump. This is going to flood".
<cmaloney> I've come to learn via experience that JoDee is right more often than she is not
<cmaloney> she's almost pope-level infallability. :)
<cmaloney> rick_h__: Are you back on God's timezone?
<rick_h__> cmaloney: not yet, fly home tomorrow
<rick_h__> working on getting seats moved on the flight atm
<cmaloney> rick_h__: I take it no CHC for you tomorrow? :)
<rick_h__> cmaloney: no, think I roll in a couple of hours before CHC
<jrwren> cmaloney: did you find from where it is coming in?
<jrwren> cmaloney: oh, looks like you have finished walls, harder to find.
<cmaloney> jrwren: I have some suspects.
<jrwren> cmaloney: I just repaired my leaky basement wall. It is a very easy thing to fix if it is coming through old rod holes.
<cmaloney> jrwren: Yeah, though I think some is coming up from the floor.
<cmaloney> Which wouldn't surprise me as there's also some deterioration in one of the bathroom pipes.
<jrwren> cmaloney: that would be pretty terrible.
<greg-g> cmaloney: holy crap, flooding?
<greg-g> ah, not too terrible, at least
<greg-g> dangit, I need to re-stop using twitter, I just retweet jrwren's political tweets ;)
<jrwren> i don't tweet politics.
<greg-g> not sure what to call the police one then
<greg-g> "how our world is f'd up" tweets?
<jrwren> greg-g: current events.
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> thought you all might enjoy this: http://www.opensym.org/2014/08/11/inner-source-coming-to-a-company-near-you-soon/
<cmaloney> greg-g: We were fortunate. I'm hearing way worse reports from other folks.
<cmaloney> greg-g: I'd be interested to see what is consdered "inner-source"
<greg-g> cmaloney: probably only "you can actually, *gasp!*, share source between teams"
<cmaloney> Yeah, was wondering if someone discovered Agile or something similarly profound
<cmaloney> "if people take ownership of their code and have regular release cadences then you can achieve a more productive development cycle"
<cmaloney> "if you wash your dishes regularly then you won't have to spend as much time washing dishes at any one period"
<jrwren> I just found out that my wife cousins had to be rescued from their roof yesterday. Their house was almost entirely underwater, literally.
<cmaloney> OMG
<jrwren> They live along the clinton river in east macomb twp.
<jrwren> err, east macomb county. I'm not sure what twp.
<cmaloney> Over by Utica Road?
<jrwren> A few miles north of there.
<jrwren> True story: My wife watered the garden along our house on Sunday. It was the hotest day we've had in a long time. Her watering caused water to come into our basement a little.
<jrwren> I took this opportunity to pull out the hydrolic cement and patch that hole.
<jrwren> Monday's rain didn't get into the basement.
<cmaloney> jrwren: Yeah, that would have been a mess and a half
<cmaloney> Pretty sure there's a doom band that has a tempo so slow you'd need a week to play one measure.
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCfhdmC7oMY <- What the fuck?
<greg-g> Twitter is like smoking cigarettes to me. Every now and then you have to smoke one to remember "yeah, this is why I quit."
<greg-g> also, can someone else confirm that twitter.com (webview) is stealing ctrl+t and ctrl+k (new tab and search)
<greg-g> fucking javascript
<jrwren> I still say you just follow the wrong people.
<ColonelPanic001> greg-g: haha, sorry
<PhillyMelt02> I can confirm ctrl+t and ctrl+k do not open a new tab or search
<greg-g> jrwren: people I don't follow are responding to me
<ColonelPanic001> it's all my fault
<PhillyMelt02> I tried it using Firefox.
<PhillyMelt02> They still work on Chrome on a WIN7 machine though
<greg-g> weird
<greg-g> ColonelPanic001: Apology accepted. ;)
<jrwren> greg-g: ignore them or block them.
<jrwren> greg-g: set your twitter account to private.
<greg-g> I might
<greg-g> but, I'm also way more productive when i never look at it
<greg-g> alright, time to go make kombucha
<cmaloney> yeah I rarely look at my Twitter account
<cmaloney> G+ is my social crack
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-08-13
<jrwren> cmaloney: I found out that they don't live where I thought. They are at Utica Rd near Hayes Rd.
<cmaloney> Yeah, that's right by the river.
<jrwren> What sounds does a Linux machine make?
<jrwren> Only a spinning fan since the audio drivers don't work.
<cmaloney> Har har
<cmaloney> btw: Happy Birthday and all that, jrwren
<jrwren> thanks cmaloney
<jcastro> n0p_, I feel like bigalora tonite
<jrwren> jcastro: oh sure, the one night I can't crash :p
<greg-g> jrwren: happy birthday dude
<jrwren> thanks greg-g !
<jcastro> heh
<jrwren> jcastro: you might see me wandering around there trying beer anyway :p
<jrwren> greg-g: now THAT was a political tweet :)
<greg-g> jrwren: the "oops, we broke the router trying to spy" one?
<jrwren> greg-g: no, the Governor of New York.
<cmaloney> Fuck, 2016 PyCon is in Portland Oregon
<cmaloney> Now we'll never get rick_h__ back. :)
<greg-g> jrwren: I... don't remember that?
<jrwren> cmaloney: rick_h should leave pycon behind in favor of gophercon
<jrwren> greg-g: it was right when I wrote it here.
<cmaloney> jrwren: Bite. Your. Tongue. :)
<cmaloney> http://www.metalinjection.net/latest-news/guitarist-malcolm-young-reportedly-not-coming-back-to-acdc
<greg-g> jrwren: oh, misunderstood you, got it now :)
<cmaloney> which tweet is this?
<jrwren> cmaloney: I linked to a NYT article about how their Governor sucks.
<jrwren> cmaloney: I found it funny because yesterday I said I don't tweet politics :)
<jcastro> jrwren, I'm in tonight if you guys are.
<jcastro> I want pizza badly
<jrwren> jcastro: Its my birthday. My family is taking me out. We might end up going there for that. But I think we may hit Mani.
<jcastro> oh! happy birthday!
<jrwren> Thanks!
<cmaloney> jcastro: You should go to Royal Oak
<cmaloney> I hear they have restaurants there
<cmaloney> and then you could meet up for coffee at CHC
<cmaloney> I don't understand why people password-protect zip files.
<jrwren> why not?
<cmaloney> Because it's pointless?
<cmaloney> It's like securing your bike with zip-ties?
<cmaloney> no pun intended.
<cmaloney> It's not real encryption or protection
<cmaloney> It's at best an annoyance and at worst an inconvenience.
<skellat> cmaloney: Password-protected zip files -- US Treasury's view of securely moving data around via e-mail
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-08-14
<cmaloney> I'd believe it
<cmaloney> Sorry for missing another CHC, but decided to rip up the carpet downstairs since it wasn't drying all day.
<cmaloney> Good thing we did. It's jute under there. Shit never dries.
<trevlar> cmaloney: same situation here
<rick_h__> ooooh, pycon in portland? damn it's so hard to justify going though
<cmaloney> rick_h__: it's your favorite computer language and community? :)
<rick_h__> cmaloney: and in my fav city now :/
<rick_h__> and hey, a real TZ in a real house on a real network yay me
<cmaloney> rick_h__: Welcome back
<rick_h__> thanks, good to be back to the land of the living
<cmaloney> Oh that will still take time. :)
<cmaloney> Few nights sleep and I'll consider you back. :)
<wolfger> tada!
<wolfger> What's up, my long-lost people?
<cmaloney> Hey wolfger!
<cmaloney> Welcome back
<wolfger> Just realized that since I'm no longer on the Chrysler network, I can try logging in at work again.
<wolfger> :-)
<wolfger> We'll see how the new evil overlord feels about IRC sometime next week.
<greg-g> it'sa wolfger?!
<_stink_> a rare sighting in the wild.
<wolfger> It'll be frequently sighted at Michigan Homebrew Festival this weekend, though. ;-)
<cmaloney> nice
<wolfger> the subtitle of the event is (or should be) "Getting plastered, 4 ounces at a time!)
<wolfger> at least, that's how last year went
<cmaloney> http://www.bbc.com/news/business-28790807
<cmaloney> Yeah, that's how Brufest is for me
<cmaloney> At least it is when they have Black Note.
<cmaloney> Which they sadly neglected to bring this year
<wolfger> Nice BBC story. Let's all pay more to get an advantage over the poor.
<wolfger> ...which we soon will be for paying these stupid fees
<wolfger> unthinkable that a company might, you know, try to actually improve customer service to the level at which it used to exist.
<cmaloney> Well, what happens when everyone pays? ;)
<rick_h__> what are we paying for?
<rick_h__> moar toys?!
<cmaloney> support
<cmaloney> http://www.bbc.com/news/business-28790807
<cmaloney> like the times when the "limited edition" of something is more plentiful than the regular edition
<rick_h__> heh
<rick_h__> well, to be fair, if .50 gets me to the front of the line...
<rick_h__> now, the trick will be if they give that option when there is no line
<rick_h__> and just pocket .50 each time someone calls :)
<cmaloney> likely
<rick_h__> ah, so cynical...and probably right :)
<cmaloney> you're at the front of the line? Mission accomplished.
<greg-g> we never garaunteed there would be a line
<greg-g> just that you would be the front of it
<cmaloney> Only that you would be somewhere near the front of it
<cmaloney> I think they should have reverse auction priority
<cmaloney> front of the line starts at $50
<cmaloney> any takers? $45
<cmaloney> etc.
<cmaloney> Or perhaps a conference call
<cmaloney> That would be swell
<cmaloney> Here's the "down below" section of the call queue.
<cmaloney> You can pay a little more for some peace and quiet.
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<cmaloney> Bah, I missed Chc last night and forgot to tell Dan that his bot and he were AWOL
<cmaloney> http://www.last.fm/music/Christopher+Franke/_/Marcus+on+Death+Watch+%2F+The+Final+Strike+%2F+Scouting+Mars+Targets+%2F+Main+Title
<wolfger> There is no queue. If you pay extra, they'll take your call instead of letting you listen to the "on hold" recording. :-)
<wolfger> Now if paying extra guaranteed me somebody who speaks English as a first language *and* who isn't working off a script.... I might just pay that. Maybe. Except there's that whole principle that we should have that service *anyway*.
<cmaloney> wolfger: But that costs money
<wolfger> By the way, who was it in here that really talked up Ubuntu One all those years ago? Was that jcastro? WTH, man? They shut it down.
<cmaloney> Yeah, I was using it as well
<cmaloney> It made sense at the time, but unfortunately I think it was a big money sink
<cmaloney> not enough uptake
<cmaloney> and better services
<cmaloney> (competing)
<cmaloney> The whole U1 Streaming thing didn't excite me, though I put the blame on the stupid licensing of the music companies.
<cmaloney> The subscription fee on top of paying for the service was pretty redundant.
<jrwren> wolfger: where you been man? that was announced in February?
<cmaloney> jrwren: In case you hadn't noticed, wolfger has been living in another land
<cmaloney> was living in another land
<cmaloney> the great city-state of Chrysler.
<wolfger> Yeah, this was announced a long time back, and more recently went into final effect, but I just haven't been around to bitch about it til now ;-)
<wolfger> My Chrysler project ended, so I'm a little freer today. Working on in-house stuff and also a Ford project. Not sure yet if Ford banhammers IRC.
<wolfger> Ford seems to be a generally nicer place to work (after all of 2 days there), so I'm hoping.
<cmaloney> WEll, Ford hasn't had three disparate sets of owners.
<cmaloney> each more paranoid than the last
<wolfger> Heh. Yeah. Their latest move was to completely disable Outlook Web Access. VPN or no mail for you.
<jcastro> wolfger, you must be mixing me up with someone else
<jcastro> I've never talked up U1 file sync
<wolfger> OK, sorry about that. I guess I need a RAM upgrade.
<jrwren> jcastro: Did you go to bigalora? how was it?
<jcastro> delicious
<jcastro> how was your birthday?
<jrwren> jcastro: It was good. I'm glad to hear that the place is good.
<_stink_> is this old news? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cupsys/+bug/255161/comments/28
<cmaloney> I thought I remembered seeing something about it
<_stink_> pretty funny.
<cmaloney> _stink_: is it still an issue?
<_stink_> naw, just got a link from a very shady character
<cmaloney> Yeah, `file` is a precarious beast.
 * _stink_ glares at ColonelPanic001 
<cmaloney> Oh, you mean the guy who doesn't play Go? :)
 * _stink_ glares at ColonelPanic001 again
<ColonelPanic001> SHUSH YOU
<ColonelPanic001> I have no notification for it :\
<ColonelPanic001> BW go sucks, just less than all other alternatives
<cmaloney> There's a way to turn on email notification
<cmaloney> Though not 100% sure how to do that
<cmaloney> But that's how I keep notified.
<brousch> Just leave it open in a tab and check it
<brousch> And accept my challenge
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-08-15
<cmaloney> I <3 when Windows just up and decides "I'm doing some fucking updates so fuck you and whatever it was you were doing"
<cmaloney> "and just because you questioned my brilliance, I will now SHUT DOWN!"
<cmaloney> "You're fucking welcome"
<rick_h__> helpful stuff :)
<brousch> cmaloney: Windows updates are more critical than anything you could possibly be doing. After all, you're using windows, how critical could it be?
<dickweed> mornin fellas
<dickweed> i swear some week i'm going to be able to make it to CHC again
<dickweed> isn't someone here somehow involved in the Kivy project?
<brousch> I am
<dickweed> you know its on the front page of hacker news today?
<brousch> I don't read hacker news, but that was mentioned in #kivy
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> dickweed: Your bot is AWOL, btw.
<cmaloney> and so am I from CHC
<dickweed> hmmm
<jrwren> cmaloney: i hate it when I forget to change Windows Update to "Only when I say!"
<dickweed> .echo test
<bookiebot> test
<dickweed> there he is
<dickweed> when did he die?
<cmaloney> Couple days ago
<cmaloney> and wasn't sure if 'dickweed' was your moniker. :)
<mrgoodcat> oops
<cmaloney> np.
<mrgoodcat> that's my nick in the WMU computer club IRC
<mrgoodcat> one of those immature things you did a long time ago before you thought it would matter and now you can't undo it
<cmaloney> heh
<brousch> cmaloney undid his old nick
<rick_h__> ruh roh
<brousch> rick_h__: sup?
<rick_h__> party
<jrwren> who was asking about SCALE a few days ago. did anyone mention BarcampGR?
<brousch> What about barcampgr?
<jrwren> someone was looking for conferences in the area.
<brousch> ah
<cmaloney> feh
<rick_h__> meh
<jrwren> ugh
<greg-g> gah
<rick_h__> hah
<jrwren> ugh
<jrwren> .np evarlast
<bookiebot> evarlast's current track - Virgin by Legend on Fearless
<jrwren> \m/
<cmaloney> Whew.
<cmaloney> Copying files over
<rick_h__> cmaloney: computer go boom?
<cmaloney> Work computer went book.
<greg-g> nonfiction or fiction?
<rick_h__> 'based on a true story'
<rick_h__> or better yet 'inspired by true events'
<greg-g> Unsolved Mystery
<greg-g> loved that show as a kid :)
<rick_h__> 'why did the ram chip decide to kick the bucket, we may never know'
<rick_h__> greg-g: out your way in a week
<greg-g> cool!
<rick_h__> the boy is getting excited about getting on a plane
<greg-g> cool!
<greg-g> Carrie and Rowan will be in MI from 9/4 to 9/18
<greg-g> I'll be here, alone
<rick_h__> hah, well get on a plane man
<rick_h__> pics and moar pics https://www.flickr.com/photos/7508761@N03/sets/72157646076162287/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/fn5U0d - 2014-germany - an album on Flickr
<rick_h__> my wife is gaining a new appreciation for when I come back from sprints beat
<greg-g> yeah, saw in my flickr app that you uploaded more than 150 pics, I thought "too many, didn't see" ;)
<rick_h__> lol
<rick_h__> yea, well I was there for 10 days, that's hardly 40 a day :P
<greg-g> haha
<greg-g> I'll look later :)
<rick_h__> https://www.flickr.com/photos/7508761@N03/14921621492/in/set-72157646076162287
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/je3Nhn - P1050060.jpg | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
<rick_h__> hehe
<greg-g> preeeeety
<rick_h__> yea, sure we'll have a lot more from yosemite in a couple of weeks
<greg-g> I've been following this person doing the PCT this year, awesome freaking photos from just her phone
<greg-g> carrotquinn is her name, on instagram
<rick_h__> nice
<rick_h__> I've been jealous of http://just5moreminutes.com/blog/
<rick_h__> amazing amount of work goes into those posts
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/MGbSB7 - Just 5 More Minutes
<rick_h__> man, these shots make me miss backpacking
<greg-g> just5moreminutes looks great
<greg-g> and yeah, I should do a solo backpacking trip while carrie and rowan are gone
<rick_h__> yea, one of my fav airsteam blogs
<cmaloney> Bah, and the thing crashed again
<brousch> Can we blame Windows?
<cmaloney> no, but the video card fan is a brick
<cmaloney> so we can start there
<greg-g> no built in video on the motherboard?
<cmaloney> There is but was easier to get the card replaced.
 * greg-g nods
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-08-16
<mrgoodcat> http://osgameclones.com/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/pScZM - Open Source Game Clones
<rick_h__> party party
<cmaloney> Howdy
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> There's a new .xyz domain
<cmaloney> If they ever have a yyz domain I'm totally on that
<rick_h__> morning for a bit more
<cmaloney> Heh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-08-17
<rick_h__> party
<cmaloney> Party party.
<cmaloney> rick_h__: Apparently you and JoDee have something in common. :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-08-10
<jrwren> cscheib: nope.
<cscheib> jrwren: damn
 * DrDaemonEye drops a pin and listens to it hit the floor
<jrwren> ting
<cmaloney> <3 ting
<jrwren> did they derive their name from the only pin drop fiber optic ad campaign of the 80s?
<cmaloney> Probably.
<greg-g> huh, I never made the ting connection there
<cscheib> never heard of ting the fiber campaign from the 80's, or the ting company that's apparently a wireless provider
<greg-g> cscheib: you don't remember the "so good you can hear a pin drop" commercials?
<cscheib> don't think so
<cscheib> I'm not old like jrwren though
<cmaloney> Might have been before his time
<cscheib> I'm still a spring chicken at 31
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cih-B324A0A
<greg-g> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mu_8sYB8R2Y
<greg-g> the end of the one I pasted
<cscheib> ok, the one cmaloney posted almost made me ill, either it was jittercam, or v-sync was f'ed
<cmaloney> vsync was f-ed up
<jrwren> you see cscheib there wasn't always fiber all over the world. Someone had to put it there. That someone was telcos, mostly in the 80s. :]
<greg-g> it was also a really bad commercial :)
<cscheib> I do remember the Sprint pin drop commercials now, just don't ever recall hearing anything like "so good you can hear a pin drop"
<cmaloney> I think that was the first one
<cmaloney> Had that "Apple" vibe to it
<cmaloney> iirc
<cscheib> but, I was young, so probably just took the pin for granted
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnlqrMWVYCs
<cscheib> I remember the Little Caesars commercial with the caesar dude dancing and saying pizza pizza
<cscheib> *commercials
<cscheib> cmaloney, that one is probably a bit out of my remembrance range
<cscheib> I don't recall hearing them call themselves US Sprint, ever
<cmaloney> I just remember they weren't AT&T
<cmaloney> Or as we termed them: Ma Bell
<cscheib> I remember changing area codes to 810 from 313
<cmaloney> Yep
<greg-g> man, I hated St Louis for taking my area code from me
<cmaloney> 666?
<greg-g> heh
<greg-g> we were all 314, then St Louis got too big and made us go to 573
<cmaloney> I feel bad for the company that worked so hard to get 1-234-567-8 schlemiel schlimazel Hasenpfeffer Incorporated!
<cmaloney> ony to have the area code change. ;)
<greg-g> hah
<jrwren> 313 -> 810 -> 248 so much change. then moved back to 810 and it changed to 586
<cscheib> never lived in 248
<cmaloney> I've had all of those area codes
<cscheib> actually, I lied, I lived in Madison Heights and Ferndale... I guess I never lived in 248 when I needed to care what area code I was in
<cmaloney> Apparently the file-syncing code for Ubuntu One is being released
<cmaloney> (the server-side stuff)
<greg-g> cmaloney: ?!!
 * greg-g grumbles
<greg-g> stupid anti-pattern
<greg-g> "we don't care about this anymore, open source it!"
<greg-g> also, AGPL with a contributor license agreement is bullshit
<greg-g> oh, nvm!
<greg-g> yay
<greg-g> "Do I have to sign a contributor agreement to modify the code?
<greg-g> No. This is no longer an active project, we are providing the code for public to read and use on their own."
<jrwren> AGPL with contrib lic agreement just means you get to fork it ;]
<cmaloney> heh
<jcastro> man greg-g
<jcastro> you were already flaming us without even reading to the END!
<jcastro> cscheib: I'll call you back in a minute, I'm in a meeting
<greg-g> jcastro: yeah, I took back the AGPL+CLA thing, but you konw that's Canonical's standard and a shitty practice
<greg-g> also, a 1 rev dump of the source code... it's just so too little too late
<jcastro> shrug
<jcastro> we're one of the only OSS companies even using the AGPL
<greg-g> but you aren't really
<greg-g> it's AGPL+CLA
<jcastro> the worst license in the universe that we know actively prevents people from participating
<greg-g> very different thing
<jcastro> because we love copyleft. :D
<greg-g> no, because you don't want competition
<greg-g> that's what the CLA does
 * greg-g shrugs
<jcastro> plenty of OSS projects use CLAs
<greg-g> AGPL+CLA is terribly uneven
<greg-g> MIT+CLA wouldn't be
<jcastro> you can't contribute to openstack, or kubernetes, or docker without a CLA either.
<cscheib> jcastro: figured.  I'm free until 330
<jcastro> I don't expect people to really use the server side code anyway
<jcastro> syncthing and/or owncloud would be a better use of people's time
<cmaloney> Yeah, I'm thinking this is just clearing the decks more than useful code
 * greg-g nods
<cmaloney> Also an object lesson for not building your infrastructure on CouchDB. ;)
<jrwren> MIT+CLA is exactly the same. Mono uses it.
<jrwren> All apache projects, same thing. CLA.
<jrwren> what is wrong with couchdb?
<greg-g> man, it was all the rage there for a minute
<jrwren> greg-g: everything was the rage for a minute.
<greg-g> but really, U1 was the only thing I used that used it
<cmaloney> Honestly I don't think CLAs are overlty a bad thing. Just depends on what you're signing away
<cmaloney> CouchDB was MongoDB without the speed
<greg-g> the auto-syncing of gwibber post data was neat
<cmaloney> and without the scaling
<jrwren> greg-g: mongo, then backlash, couch, then backlash, redis, riak, rethink... I don't get it.
<jrwren> why not speed or scaling?
<cmaloney> Not (both had horrible reliability)
<cmaloney> Note:
<cmaloney> At the time CouchDB was slower
<cmaloney> Not sure if it kept up
<cmaloney> MongoDB was essentially data by prayer
<cmaloney> Throw it at the disk and pray it made it there.
<cmaloney> It's a Faith-based datastore. ;)
<jrwren> same as sqlite and mysql then?
<jrwren> same as oracle, db2 or sqlserver. its just you buy your faith in those cases.
<cmaloney> I have faith in fsync.
<jrwren> me too, faith that it makes things slow.
<cmaloney> I have faith in ACID
<cmaloney> I also have faith in anything that doesn't require a complete rebuild of the database when one of the nodes loses its shit.
<cmaloney> Note: This also means I don't have a whole lot of faith in MySQL. ;)
<jrwren> sqlite running on tmpfs is ACID
<jrwren> I'm faithless.
<cmaloney> sqlite3 is definitely ACID. It's not the DBs fault you dropped it on non-durable storage. :)
<cmaloney> you can ln -s /var/lib/mysql /tmp/mysql as well
<jcastro> greg-g: cmaloney: yeah it's clearly just an over the wall code dump
<jcastro> people wanted the code and we ended up promising it anyway
<jcastro> personally, the world would be a better place if it was systematically nuked from orbit, but shrug
<cscheib> jcastro: will call back in a sec - stupid phone isn't ringing properly or something
<jcastro> I am waiting for my new phone to get here too
<brousch> Ubuntu phone?
<jcastro> moto g
<brousch> You need a director of dogfooding at Canonical
<cscheib> does Shuttleworth even use one?
<jcastro> everyone who is not in the US dogfoods
<jcastro> Mark has two phones, his iphone and an ubuntu phone
<jcastro> the meizu doesn't have the right radios for US
<jcastro> so I can technically run one but it'll be like 2G or something
<jcastro> I really wish we had one for the US because android makes me cry
<jrwren> everyone who is not in the US is also like at least 80% of the company
<jcastro> but the moto g is like $220 so I can wait the year or however long it takes
<cmaloney> Android is quite good from where I'm sitting
<jcastro> I'm kind of tired of being a beta tester
<jcastro> My Nexus5 went from being the best phone I owned, to being worthless in Lollipop
<jcastro> lg won't fix it because it's too old
<jcastro> and google won't fix it because I'm supposed to buy a nexus6 instead of getting a working product
<cscheib> heh
<brousch> It worked for a while!
<jcastro> and now apparently it's impossible to get a phone that isn't the size of an xbox
<cscheib> the fact that iphone has a solid upgrade lifecycle is pretty nice
<cscheib> even though I'm generally at N or N-1
<jcastro> so now every phone is like a 7 inch tablet
<cscheib> the hueg phone thing is irritating
<jcastro> so like why buy a flagship device when it's going to be a POS soon anyway, might as well just get the cheaper ones
<brousch> Thank HD pr0n for that
<jcastro> rick loves his motos though, so I figured it's worth giving them a shot
<jrwren> 4" iphone7 in 1mo plz.
<brousch> jrwren: You think so?
<jrwren> brousch: I'm begging
<brousch> That might get even me to consider it
<cscheib> jrwren: I think that would be in their benefit, even if they didn't refresh it with every "S" release
<jrwren> cscheib: I agree
<cscheib> they've got us locked into the ecosystem anyway
<cscheib> wonder what the 6 to 6+ sales ratio nis
<cscheib> *is
<cmaloney> Big news everyone: Larry Page still uses G+
<cmaloney> Oh, and they started some umbrella company called Alphabet.
<greg-g> ?
<greg-g> link? I don't want to search for that ;)
<cmaloney> abc.xyz
<jrwren> we talk so much about the worlds largest advertising company.
<greg-g> makes sense though
<greg-g> you know, it's just an umbrella company/moving some "companies" (departments, whatever) to be independent from the GOOG. But to these people, that's really important. Management needs clean lines of reporting (accountability).
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-08-11
<cmaloney> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/3gks5d/oracle_blogger_no_you_cant_look_at_our_code/
<cmaloney> Yay hospital
<_stink_> man
<_stink_> :(
<cmaloney> Yeah, no worries.
<cmaloney> FIL was having some issues this morning
<cscheib> jrwren , aisrael: do either of you mess with juju on osx at all?  appears to not work on 10.11
<cscheib> the command line tool, that is
<jrwren> cscheib: i used to. i've not used it in a while. What are you trying to do?
<jrwren> cscheib: 1.22.1-yosemite-amd64 installed here.
<cscheib> jrwren: I was going to mess aroudn with juju, as I haven't actually yet
<jrwren> cscheib: oh! you are running the beta of macosx? Yes, I'd not be surprised if juju doesn't support that :(
<jrwren> cscheib: what is 10.11 called? ElCapitan?
<cscheib> yea
<cscheib> I'm guessing it's just a hard coded OS check, was pondering hard coding 10.11 in
<jrwren> cscheib: do you get: panic: osVersion reported an error
<cscheib> I'll probably just mess around with it on my other OSX laptop
<cscheib> yup
<jrwren> cscheib: file a bug, or tell me to.
<cscheib> file a bug, yo!
<cscheib> or tell me where to, I don't care
<jrwren> cscheib: can you paste me output of uname -a
<cscheib> Darwin arctistor.lan 15.0.0 Darwin Kernel Version 15.0.0: Sun Jul 26 19:48:55 PDT 2015; root:xnu-3247.1.78~15/RELEASE_X86_64 x86_64
<jrwren> cscheib: https://github.com/juju/juju/blob/master/version/osversion.go#L128  no 15: "elcapitan" in that map
<cscheib> oh man, this is a binary now?  I figured it'd be python
<jrwren> cscheib: its go
<jrwren> cscheib: juju hasn't been python for a few years now
<jrwren> cscheib: https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1483889  mark it has affects you
<cscheib> gracias
<cscheib> +1'd
<greg-g> heh, the same team member who had the curl | sh rickroll also still uses a .plan: https://github.com/thcipriani/dotfiles/blob/master/plan
<jrwren> greg-g: can i finger him?
<greg-g> not sure :)
<greg-g> jrwren: unrelatedly, don't get your hopes up about lessig :)
<jrwren> greg-g: its too late. They are already up.
<jrwren> greg-g: HOPE
<greg-g> keep 'em up them
<greg-g> then
<jrwren> greg-g: https://medium.com/@bucchere/lessig-2016-a-generation-s-defining-moment-643176837439  such excite!
<cmaloney> My hopes for Lessig / Sanders are way up
<cmaloney> But I'm bracing for Hillary / Donald
<greg-g> donald?
<cmaloney> Clinton / Trump
<greg-g> lessig vs sanders?
 * greg-g is confuzored
<cmaloney> I'm hoping Lessig or Sanders win
<cmaloney> the Democratic nomination
<cmaloney> though I'm fearing the final contest will be Clinton v. Trump
<greg-g> gotcha, different things
<greg-g> not a a:b::c:d
<cmaloney> Yeah, sorry
<cmaloney> Fuck no
<greg-g> lol
<greg-g> though, Trump be Clinton's VP would be the best thing ever
<greg-g> being*
<cmaloney> I just wish Trump would just buy a circus and be off
<cmaloney> be with his people
<cmaloney> (actually, I don't think I hate clowns that much)
<cmaloney> Unrelated: Plugging foreign shit into your car's computer is not a brilliant plan
<cmaloney> who knew?
<gamerchick02> so, uhm, mugorg... is the online meeting working or am i just super early?
<cmaloney> Not sure
<cmaloney> I'm not present either
<cmaloney> Joining online
<gamerchick02> ok
<gamerchick02> so it seems like we're on the call but there's no video
<cmaloney> Not yet.
<gamerchick02> apparently 6:30 is the time people are supposed to arrive. :-P
<cmaloney> Yeah
<cmaloney> They're likely doing MUG business at the moment
<gamerchick02> sorry, i'm in too many meetings at work that start late or go over
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> Yeah, I might make the start time later
<gamerchick02> that's ok
<cmaloney> but it's hard to gauge when the meeting itself will start
<gamerchick02> i was the one late today. my meeting at 9 went til 10:15
<gamerchick02> and i had a 10. so yeah
<cmaloney> They might be having trouble as well. They're playing with library wifi
<gamerchick02> oh ugh
<cmaloney> Dammit
<cmaloney> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/gseovdunnymfgn62hg2cgxv7y4a?hl=en&authuser=0
<cmaloney> For the time being
<cmaloney> Apparnetly the person running the camera isn't joined in using hte MUG account
<gamerchick02> ugh
<cmaloney> Yeah, that's the link for the video for now
<gamerchick02> there we go
<gamerchick02> i had to shut off my camera real quick. hahahaha
<gamerchick02> also thank you, i appreciate it
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> gamerchick02: Please mute. :)
<gamerchick02> shit i'm sorry
<cmaloney> np
<gamerchick02> probably from my typing. :(
<cmaloney> heh
<gamerchick02> i type heavily. whoops
<gamerchick02> AND it doesn't help that i have my dehumidifier going either
<gamerchick02> has there always been an online meeting for MUG?
<cmaloney> We've had about 6 or so
<gamerchick02> wow nice
<gamerchick02> usually i can't attend because of Nile
<cmaloney> We record them also
<cmaloney> That's via our Youtube channel
<gamerchick02> oooh nice
<gamerchick02> thanks
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-08-12
<gamerchick02> wait. the presentation is on a Windows 8 computer?
<gamerchick02> (yes i just noticed)
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> We allow all walks of computing life
<gamerchick02> :) very nice. even my menagerie of windows, mac, ubuntu, ios, and android? (I have a device ZOO i tell you.)
<cscheib> mramm seems to be having connectivity issues, heh
<aisrael> cscheib: I use juju on osx full-time. I haven't tried the public beta yet, but I have a spare machine I can try it on. What problems are you running into?
<cscheib> aisrael: well, it's not in the hardcoded support list, not sure if there'd be anything else that would prevent it from being used.  jrwren opened a bug, so it may be taken care of soon.  not a huge deal, since I have a second laptop, but thought I'd bring it up
<aisrael> cscheib: Gotcha. I assume you're not trying to use the local provider, right?
<cscheib> yea, I know better than that
<cscheib> the juju command just plain fails on 10.11 (el capitan) regardless
<aisrael> *nod* that should be an easy enough fix
<cscheib> I've got htings up and running on my digitalocean vps for the CLI
<cscheib> to AWS
<aisrael> Found where to patch it. We'll see what my weekend looks like, though.
<cscheib> is there a tool you're supposed to use to troubleshoot failed builds?  I tried a mediawiki bundle... mysql worked, mediawiki did not
<cscheib> <-- first time really playing around too much with it
<cscheib> or do you just log into the sys to resolve issues
<aisrael> every unit should have an individual log in /var/log/juju-*/
<aisrael> depending on the error, it may be a matter of sshing in, or running juju resolved unitname/0 -r
<cscheib> cool
<cscheib> thanks!
<cscheib> interesting.  the rails one failed too
<aisrael> jwren: cscheib: patch for el capitan submitted
<cscheib> ++
<cmaloney> Morning
<brousch> Yes
<cmaloney> Yay!
<DrDaemonEye> morning
<jrwren> good morning
<DrDaemonEye> how goes jrwren?
<jrwren> well enough, how goes with you?
<DrDaemonEye> It goes.  Quiet day in IRC World.
<greg-g> west coast is still waking up :)
<DrDaemonEye> that they are.  And the east coast is looking at the lunch rush soon
<cscheib> what rush... people dont' all work from home? :P
<jrwren> at home with wife and daughter. lunch rush consists of a line at the fridge.
<jrwren> tomorrow is my birthday.
<cmaloney> Morning / Afternoon
<cmaloney> Happy tomorrow-is-your-birthday jrwren
<cscheib> jrwren: congrats on your continued survival
<jrwren> thanks
<cscheib> I may be out in A2 for lunch tomorrow
<jrwren> cscheib: I'll be heading to west mi for vaca
<cscheib> gotcha
<brousch> jrwren: We're happy to have you visit!
<jrwren> brousch: I'll be down in 3 oaks.
<brousch> That's SW michigan, not West Michigan
<jrwren> brousch: thanks. I'll tell people that now.
<jcastro> cscheib: how's the juju/osx experience so far?
<jcastro> we punch you in the teeth enough times?
<cscheib> jcastro: I gave up on the OSX part of it
<brousch> gOOD MAN
<jcastro> cscheib: I want you to tell Ramm that exact thing.
<cscheib> oh?
<jcastro> well yeah, if someone like you can give up, normal people would have given up long before
<cscheib> juju was looking for brew, but I think it was looking in the wrong location, because I installed homebrew via boxen
<cscheib> so I just installed the juju command on my DO droplet
<jcastro> rick_h_: http://gizmodo.com/moto-x-style-hands-on-a-great-smartphone-with-a-price-1720576796/1723666356
<cscheib> my non-certified ubuntu cloud image droplet :P
<jcastro> cscheib: yeah, we have a vagrant box too
<cscheib> yea, pondered that
<cscheib> I may try it on my windows workstation.,
<cscheib> I got juju itself up and running, but the 2 bundles I've tried so far haven't come up properly
<jcastro> which ones?
<cscheib> I tried the single rails one, and the mediawiki one
<jcastro> ah
<jcastro> "nice"
<jcastro> aisrael: see ^^ it's shit like this
<jcastro> cscheib: I'm going to use your experience as an excuse to fix shit
<cscheib> the mediawiki one was in the juju-quickstart example on the site
<cmaloney> cscheib: You're in for it now
<cmaloney> jcastro is on the case
<cmaloney> HEADS WILL ROLL
<cscheib> the rails one was super simple looking, so I figured that'd be fine, too
<aisrael> jcastro: yep, tell me about it. A thousand papercuts.
<jcastro> the rails one is a fragile chef thing
<jcastro> which is unfortunate
<jcastro> the mediawiki one there's no excuse
<jcastro> that's just some php
<cmaloney> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/One%20Hundred%20Papercuts
<jcastro> cmaloney: that's only three digits though
<cmaloney> If that trend line continues it'll be four digits. ;)
<cscheib> I should probably mess with some charms/bundles that actually work
<cscheib> any good (small) examples?
<cscheib> I'm doing this on the "free" AWS tier, so it can't be too nutty
<aisrael> cscheib: wordpress probably works
<jcastro> juju-gui
<aisrael> That's a vanilla example, but one that's fairly-well tested
<cscheib> the juju gui comes up fine
<jcastro> and if that breaks at a minimum that's jrwren's fault
<jcastro> free tier is tough, because t1.micros are kind of shit
<cscheib> juju-quickstart deploys via juju-gui regardless of which bundle you install
<aisrael> jcastro: I've fixed the mediawiki charm more than once. I'd like to hunt down whoever keeps breaking it
<cscheib> er vice versa
<jcastro> aisrael: hasn't been touched since november last year afaict
<cscheib> unfortunately, I'm also reading a bunch of Ruby books (I know I know), so I'm not sure I have the mindpower to devote fully to learning all about charms (and consequently troubleshoot) at this moment
<cscheib> although, it would probably be to my benefit to learn how to build one
<jcastro> if it wasn't all crackrock ruby it's not that tough
<jcastro> they just run as root on the instance right at boot
<jcastro> so, they can be shell, python, etc.
<aisrael> jcastro: Might fall back to the automated testing, which seems to be a hot mess right now. We seriously need to do a spike to address this: http://reports.vapour.ws/latest-bundle-and-charm-results
<jcastro> I wish we had a decent puppet example one
<cscheib> I'd probably do em in Puppet, bash, or Ruby, as those're what I know best
<aisrael> I mean, mysql and postgresql are both failing right now, ffs
<jcastro> that can't be right
<jcastro> http://reports.vapour.ws/all-bundle-and-charm-results/cs%3Atrusty%252Fpostgresql
<jcastro> there's no way that's correct
<cscheib> you guys allow deploys to be released that fail?
<jcastro> I suspect the bundle tester is busted and we didn't notice
<cscheib> or is that in dev
<jcastro> this is dev
<jcastro> but like, for certain things it's more tested than others
<aisrael> jcastro: bunch of lint errors
<jcastro> yeah, I mean, that should be fixed but red across the board seems suspect.
<aisrael> Like, we only test when a new version is out, but that doesn't catch underlying library changes
<cscheib> after Ruby, test frameworks are my next thing to attack
<aisrael> jcastro: If you need a +1 about this focusing on this stuff, you have mine
<jcastro> aisrael: I'm kind of just going to call ramm right now
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-08-13
<jrwren> cscheib: don't hold me accountable for jujugui being borken. I'd be very surprised if it were broken
<jrwren> vacation time.
<jrwren> catch ya'll in a week.
<_stink_> enjoy!
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> Dammit, jrwren isn't on. ;)
<cscheib> cmaloney: well, *is* on vacation
<cmaloney> That's no excuse.
<rick_h_> vacation!
<cmaloney> woo woo
<cmaloney> Heh, my boss has a Pebble Steel now. :)
<brousch> cmaloney: Does it show him the bus schedule?
<cscheib> jcastro: well, there's been some activity on that bug at least
<cmaloney> brousch: Not yet
<brousch> In other news, my linkedin is almost complete enough to create a resume from. I've started looking for a new job
<cmaloney> brousch: PLanning on moving to Detroit?
<brousch> Oh hell no, but if you see anything remote work let me know
<cmaloney> kk
<cmaloney> Any particular reason to move on or just time?
<brousch> Ann Arbor is as far East as I'd consider, and it would have to be a really good job to move there
<brousch> It is time to move on
<cmaloney> Nothing wrong with that
<brousch> Crappy new cubicle. Preference being given to relatives. Low pay. and I don't want to work here for 40 years and retire
<cmaloney> Unless you burned the place to the ground. At which point it doesn't look too good on a resume.
<jcastro> cscheib: we've been on a mission today to fix our shit
<cmaloney> Why today? :)
<cscheib> lemme know how I can assist, within reason
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-08-14
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> party
<cmaloney> You back home now?
<rick_h_> yea, back to the fire
<rick_h_> time to get ready for the next one wheeee
<cmaloney> Next one? :)
<rick_h_> sprint end of month, at least it's in chicago
<rick_h_> road trip!
<cmaloney> Woo woo
<cmaloney> WHen in August?
<rick_h_> the 31st
<cmaloney> http://vcfmw.org/
<rick_h_> and then get to sit still for a month woot!
<rick_h_> hah!
<rick_h_> will get there the 30th
<brousch> I'm getting one of these http://www.amazon.com/Kingston-Companion-Expanded-MLWG2-64SD/dp/B00UAXN7BQ
<brousch> Could leave the laptop at home on vacations
<cmaloney> You'll still need to take a keyboard and hope they have a screen
<cmaloney> Ah, I'm misreading what this is
<cmaloney> it's a smart-phone docking station
<brousch> wireless docking
<brousch> with usb and storage and ethernet and hookers and blackjack
<brousch> I have a 1TB msata ssd and usb enclosure to really expand it
 * DrDaemonEye yawns
<DrDaemonEye> afternoon everyone
<cmaloney> afternoon and all that
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> yo yo
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-08-15
<derekv> i came across this https://github.com/Azulinho/ansible-jenkins-showcase/blob/master/group_vars/all.yaml#L35
<derekv> and then my eyes fell out and my whole head fell off and now I'm dead
<_stink_> haha
<_stink_> welp the matching pubkey does say "vagrant insecure public key"
<derekv> yea but i didn't see that until after the whole eyes falling out thing so it was hard to read
<_stink_> haha
<brousch> I applied for 2 Canonical jobs
<cmaloney> You're that good that you can hold down two canonical jobs?
<cmaloney> ;)
<cmaloney> brousch: ^^
<cmaloney> %Subscriber:Username%, $500,000 in Life Insurance Coverage. Rates less than $1 A DAY!
<cmaloney> Seems legit
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-08-16
<cmaloney> morning
<DrDaemonEye> morning cmaloney
<cmaloney> How goes?
<DrDaemonEye> It goes... slowly packing for a trip to Seattle and Portland.
<cmaloney> Hopefully not at the same time
<DrDaemonEye> nope
<cmaloney> Regardless,hope you have a great trip
<cscheib> rawr
<DrDaemonEye> cscheib: moo
<DrDaemonEye> thanks cmaloney :)
<cmaloney> Afternoon
<_stink_> yo
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-08-15
<cmaloney> zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
<ColonelPanic001> I also am not permitted to get to my gutters
<ColonelPanic001> mainly by laziness and a mild bit of acrophobia
<cmaloney> That is not a good combo
<shakes808> Scary_Guy: sorry, didn't make it downtown this weekend.  how was it?
<Scary_Guy> not a bad turnout, 85 people
<Scary_Guy> no where as good as it used to be, sucks that 85 is "good" now
<Scary_Guy> also, drama was minor so that was nice
<jrwren> do they post playlists?
<Scary_Guy> Charle's doesn't, but I do and my guest DJ actually kept one
<Scary_Guy> as soon as I get to it I'll copy it off the laptop and send it to him, he can fill in the blanks and send it back
<Scary_Guy> then I'll post itup
<Scary_Guy> it-up*
<cmaloney> \m/
<Scary_Guy> |m| {-_-} |m|
 * greg-g yawns
<shakes808> awesome! would love to hear what you played.
<Scary_Guy> fuck, my uptime is 54 days for my desktop system.  not my longest record but I'm still impressed when it happens
<hates_pierce> haha, so i guess this changes in all the channels that I am in :)  Disregard the name change.  :D
<gamerchick02> fsck fixed my laptop. woohoo!
<jrwren> love that
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-08-16
<shakes808> How do I copy a file from one account to another account on the same computer?  I tried ->  http://tinyurl.com/gqtm7ep Here is the command I am doing -> http://pastebin.com/XBfpNZsm
<shakes808> a text file gets put on user2's desktop
<cmaloney> shakes808: First: If you're going to chain two sudo commands you'll want to do the following:
<cmaloney> sudo -s
<cmaloney> [enter password]
<cmaloney> cp /path/to/source /path/to/dest && chown user2:user2 /path/to/dest
<cmaloney> chaining two sudo commands with && won't work
<jrwren> iirc there is a sudo flag which will pass the success of the subprocess through as success to sudo
<jrwren> shakes808: what you did should work. What is in this test file on user2'd desktop?
<jrwren> shakes808: make by the source file is also a text file. ;]
<shakes808> cmaloney: tried it that way and still just puts an empty file on the desktop
<cmaloney> Do you have enough disk space? :)
<shakes808> jrwren: nothing is in the file, just want to rename it over there
<shakes808> cmaloney: clean computer.  fresh install of ubuntu 16.04.01
<shakes808> wiped the laptop of any traces of window
<shakes808> windows*
<cmaloney> try this:
<cmaloney> rsync -avip /path/to/source /path/to/dest
<cmaloney> and see what that does
<cmaloney> (as sudo)
<shakes808> put over an empty file that had a lock on it.
<jrwren> i claim the source file is empty.
<cmaloney> agreed
<shakes808> http://pastebin.com/RvzNF1VV
<cmaloney> or the file has a lock that needs releasing
<jrwren> pastebin output of `ls -al $sourcefile` and `file $sourcefile`
<cmaloney> ^^
<shakes808> http://pastebin.com/gET5DTLx
<jrwren> and there it is. that is an empty file.
<shakes808> the source?
<shakes808> I just had it opened
<shakes808> let me try it again
<jrwren> the ls command says 0 bytes. read the output.
<shakes808> .... doing the same thing on the source one.
<jrwren> the file command says it is empty
<shakes808> jrwren: I see that.  But I had it opened after I downloaded it
<shakes808> let me download it again
<shakes808> alright, worked that time.  I don't know what happened.  I had the pdf opened and verifying that what I needed on this computer was there for my son :(  Redownloaded it and it transfered now
<shakes808> what would cause a pdf to do that?
<jrwren> i dunno... acrobat reader executes javascript embedded in PDF. mabye it was self destructive message.
<shakes808> hmmm interesting
<jrwren> i should have included a ;]
<jrwren> i doubt that is what happened, but i suppose its possible.
<jrwren> pro tip: don't use adobe reader.
<shakes808> is that the same thing as Document Viewer?
<cmaloney> No, the document viewer is "evince"
<shakes808> didn't think so
<greg-g> Today is Debian Day, 23 years old! We have 8 people on staff who are DDs. It feels good :)
<rick_h_> greg-g: <3
<jrwren> <3
<jrwren> I love DDs. debian-devel is such a great email list to lurk on. usually, high signal to noise, and great way to learn by following.
<cmaloney> <3 <3
<cmaloney> DS9 was awesome
<cmaloney> MOst of Benson made the jump to Trek.;)
<cmaloney> feh
<cmaloney> talk about mischan. ;)
<greg-g> I was like "DD is kiiinda like DS9" ;)
<jrwren> Benson? wtf?
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Listening to Back to Work live
<cmaloney> 5by5.tv
<Scary_Guy> https://www.facebook.com/events/1768174886795537/permalink/1776277639318595/ playlist is up
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-08-17
<cmaloney> https://plus.google.com/u/0/+CraigMaloney/posts/QvavtB5kGqq
<_stink_> what is that
<cmaloney> an idiot
<_stink_> haha
<cmaloney> morning!
<rick_h_> party!
<jrwren> pitty party
<rick_h_> naw, no pity
<jrwren> lol
<cmaloney> no pity in this party
<cmaloney> https://plus.google.com/+CraigMaloney/posts/fLJZCA2P8Ew
<ColonelPanic001> cmaloney: https://eneferens.bandcamp.com/album/the-inward-cold
<ColonelPanic001> fwiw
<ColonelPanic001> imho. bbq.
<cmaloney> ColonelPanic001: Will check it out. Thanks!
<ColonelPanic001> np. I'm near the end, really good stuff, imho
<Scary_Guy> I wonder if I can copy the pico image to a floppy and boot it off a USB flopy drive https://www.riscosopen.org/content/downloads/raspberry-pi
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-08-18
<Scary_Guy> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJqYzETOqEI&feature=youtu.be
<cmaloney> morning
<brousch> cmaloney: I finally have some friends by me who like Munchkin.
<brousch> Last night I got my wife to pay me to take a level from her. Totally worth sleeping on the couch.
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> expect more if that
<brousch> We have normal and Pirate. What flavor should we get next?
<cmaloney> Depends.
<cmaloney> I like Space personally. It has some interesting mechanics for adding weapons together
<cmaloney> Apocalypse might be fun as well
<cmaloney> Cthulhu is also a personal favorite but it's not to everyone's tastes. :)
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Somehow I think Lococast is going to be resurrected based on your last tweet. ;)
<rick_h_> cmaloney: man, it's just crazy
<cmaloney> [:(
<rick_h_> "have you thought about x, y, and z? After all, we've only repeatedly broken crap due to those three things and I'm sick of fixing it over and over"
<cmaloney> Yipes.
<greg-g> I could use a good Rick's Rants
<cmaloney> "Rick's Rants! Rick's Rants! Doin' it wrong. Excellent".
<rick_h_> what's sad is I am old enough to put together your last line with "wayne's world"
<cmaloney> you're welcome. :)
<Scary_Guy> if you like games you should consider finding a friend who goes to the game nights at #i3detroit and getting in on that
<cmaloney> That's on Monday, right?
<Scary_Guy> shit I just cleared the backlog
<cmaloney> Well, there goes my whole life there.
<Scary_Guy> alternatively, a linux/MUG game/social night might be fun too
<cmaloney> If only we knew someone that had games...
<cmaloney> and wasn't anti-social.
<Scary_Guy> y'all are more social than most of my friends.  going to a goth meetup tonight.  most we ever get is like 15
<cmaloney> heh
<Scary_Guy> also if anyone is on Steam /query me.  I have like three games on that, mostly single player.  Why does linux gaming have to be such a joke?
<Scary_Guy> http://www.bitfighter.org/downloads/ is fun though
<cmaloney> I have 178 games on Steam. :)
<cmaloney> and I only run Linux.
<Scary_Guy> I'm also cheap and only play the free as in beer ones
<cmaloney> Ah
<cmaloney> craigmaloney1 is what I'm on as
<Scary_Guy> my account does not meet the requirements to use the add a friend feature?  what in the actual fuck?
<cmaloney> Maybe you have to pay for games? :)
<Scary_Guy> to use the add a friend feature?  that's like basic functionality of any social network
<cmaloney> [heh
<cmaloney> Yeah, I don't know
<cmaloney> sometimes Steam is a black art to me
<cmaloney> staying logged in if you don't play within a week
<cmaloney> that's like magic or something
<Scary_Guy> I need to take off and get ready anyway, I'll try this later.  Also I have 16 friends on steam, so it didn't used to be that way
<cmaloney> Strange.
<cmaloney> TTYL!
<Scary_Guy> l8r
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-08-19
<cmaloney> rick_h_: http://www.commitstrip.com/en/2016/08/18/open-closed-reopen-repeat/
<rick_h_> cmaloney: :)
<shakes808> cmaloney: haha, nice
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-08-20
<Scary_Guy> well uptime went when I restarted hoping it would fix my multimon issue.  Turns out it did not and it just didn't like/support that monitor.  Swapped it with the original in the new location
<Scary_Guy> ten minutes shy of a day and I'm doing it agian to install a USB3 card
<Scary_Guy> l8r
<cmaloney> morning
<obscurehero> mrgoodcat, look who's on IRC again
<obscurehero> o7 cmaloney
<cmaloney> ?
<cmaloney> How's the morning so far?
<Scary_Guy> so far so good.  computer hasn't cought fire yet
<Scary_Guy> https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2016/08/18/nists-new-password-rules-what-you-need-to-know/ this came up in another channel
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-08-21
<cmaloney> morning
<Scary_Guy> hey
<cmaloney> How's the morning so far?
<Scary_Guy> sorting files...  downloaded a ton of audio off youtube with an android app called newpipe.  just used sound converter to switch it all from .m4a to .ogg
<cmaloney> Ah, neat
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-08-14
<cmaloney> goat-g: Not sure if you heard, but it looks like Obnam is going unsupported after this year
<goat-g> cmaloney: yeah :( I honestly haven't been using it (or anything!) recently. All my data is either in git-annex or puppetized for the most part, so I wasn't too worried. But I did leave a message for liw in #obnam after I saw his blog post on planet debian
<cmaloney> Yeah, that's a bummer
<jrwren> thanks rick_h
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-08-15
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> new OMC is up. :)
<rick_h> woot woot
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-08-16
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h> morning
<cmaloney> rick_h: Looking forward to tomorrow?
<rick_h> :/
<rick_h> yes and no
<cmaloney> Yeah, I can relate
<rick_h> yes because I want to move forward, but I've been really good about not getting the nervous stuff going but it's started this week
<cmaloney> Completely understandable
<brousch> Surgery?
<rick_h> brousch: yea, ACL rebuild is tomorrow
<brousch> I'm sure it will go fine. I've had 3 family members go through it in the last 6 years
<rick_h> yea, my brain knows it's ok. Had shoulder work done a few years ago that went well
<rick_h> but still have mental issues with it
<rick_h> I guess that doesn't make sense brain == mental...heart issues?
<cmaloney> brains sometimes have trouble braining ligically
<brousch> Do they put you under for it?
<jrwren> yay rick_h!  GL HF. you will be all better soon!
<rick_h> Yea go under
<jrwren> humans aren't logical, nor should we be. that is lessons of star trek and spock
<cmaloney> and yet Spock got more fan mail than Kirk
<cmaloney> go figure
<jrwren> anyone know where openssh bugtracker is?
<jrwren> https://bugzilla.mindrot.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2761
<cmaloney> Evening
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-08-17
<gamerchick02> howdy do.
<brousch> jrwren: openssh is bug free. They don't need a tracker.
<rick_h> "mindrot" oh wellni feel better about this software
<cmaloney> Yeah, openssh is batle-hardened
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-08-19
<Scary_Guy> I got klined, but no PMs at least
<cmaloney> morning
<jrwren> Good morning
<cmaloney> how goes
<rick_h> morning
<rick_h> err, guess afternoon, doh
<cmaloney> Morning
<cmaloney> ;)
<cmaloney> God, Reactjs's license pisses me off.
<cmaloney> (patent license)
<jrwren> +1
<jrwren> but I've been anti react & angular since I heard the aurelia arguments.
<jrwren> so the patent issue is icing on the cake.
<cmaloney> ?
<rick_h> https://youtu.be/BLs6C09rQbo
<rick_h> playing with the drone wheee
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-08-20
<rick_h> Morning
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> rick_h: Saw your drone footage. Very cool!
<cmaloney> Did you send a note to the FAA to let them know you were flying? (curious how that works)
<rick_h> cmaloney: so I call a control tower when I'm at home.
<rick_h> I'm in 5miles from Oakland airport
<cmaloney> Ah, OK
<rick_h> Up there on the lake there wasn't any aviation stuff to worry about
<cmaloney> Ah, got it
<cmaloney> Any strange looks from folks? :)
<rick_h> So I've got a series of drone apps that map out airports, helipads, etc
<rick_h> So some other boats I passed waved but no. No one really did anything.
<rick_h> I think it's off since it could be anywhere on the lake. They've got a > 3mi range
<rick_h> So not a lot of folks probably knew it was me sitting a long way away on a lawn chair
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Surprised I didn't see more hovering around the family
<rick_h> So was my way to have some lake fun
<rick_h> The family was the folks on the jetski
<cmaloney> (gives new meaning to helicopter parenting)
<cmaloney> Yeah
<rick_h> Have a lot more footage but tried to cut something to music for the first time.
<rick_h> Lol @ helicopter parenting
<rick_h> Not going to lie, lots of him on the kayak tracking how he did. First time he's taken it out on his own
<cmaloney> That's awesome
<cmaloney> I can see the schoolyear now:
<rick_h> Yea he had fun
<cmaloney> *whirrr* "I don't hear any cleaning in here, Michael; are you cleaning your room?" *whirr*
<jrwren> wow! out on his own in the kayak! how old is he now?
<rick_h> jrwren: 7
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-08-13
<cmaloney> Boop
<jrwren> Beep
<Scary_Guy> > Windows
<Scary_Guy> Well, I mean there's his answer
<cmaloney> GOod morning
<cmaloney> Happy birthday, jrwren !
<jrwren> Thanks! It looks to be a beautiful day out there.
<cmaloney> Definitely
<Scary_Guy> too bright :(
<jrwren> !bio Kaito
<jrwren> oops, wrong window :)
<jrwren> i like the bright. I'm a bad goth.
<Scary_Guy> https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/915/472/13e.jpg
<jrwren> i'm more of a farmer-tan rivet head.
<Scary_Guy> lol
<jrwren> i have unix shell challenge, if you want it.
<jrwren> i have a firehose of incoming data, TONS of data on a stream, so anything which waits until EOF is out of the question. I need something similar to uniq, but which remembers what it has seen and only displays new records.
<jrwren> easy peasy.
<jrwren> perl -ne 'if (! $seen{$_}) { print; $seen{$_}=true} '
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-08-14
<cmaloney> Whee
<cmaloney> saw flashes of light and heard fireworks-popping sounds by the electrical pole
<jrwren> and your power is still on?
<cmaloney> Yes
<cmaloney> Thankfully
<_stink_> don't worry sir, that's normal
<cmaloney> heh
<waldo323> everyone coming to mug tonight?
<waldo323> I'm thinking I'll go ;)
<Scary_Guy> I'm not making it, family dinner and then a concert at Small's
<Scary_Guy> but it does look really interesting tonight
<waldo323> hopefully we won't end up with the technical difficulties we had last month :-\
<Scary_Guy> hardware devices are neat too, but I think having one less device and using software TOTP TFA would be better.  downside is you can't really confiscate that if you fire someone,  unless you make it a company phone or something
<waldo323> the video is up and the slides worked better in the video than through the projector. https://youtu.be/tCV4KFgd_rM
<Scary_Guy> I remember working in a bar long ago and a cop forgot his RSA keyfob and it just displayed random numbers.  I thought it was the coolest crap ever
<waldo323> https://youtu.be/tCV4KFgd_rM
<waldo323> oops
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-08-15
<Scary_Guy> morning, how was the gig?
<cmaloney> Went well. We had about 35 folks last night
<cmaloney> will be cool to see if any return. :)
<waldo323> slides (Thanks cmaloney)and video appear to be up: http://www.mug.org/2018/08/august-14th-2018-regular-mug-meeting/
<waldo323> video: https://youtu.be/FVPhQYHP_Dc
<waldo323> slides: http://www.mug.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/hsm.pdf
<cmaloney> np. :)
<brousch> cmaloney: Did you know zareason is in Detroit?
<cmaloney> ?
<cmaloney> Headquarters: 333 N. Washington St., Lapeer, MI 48446
<cmaloney> I didn't know they were a MI-based company
<rick_h_> oooh, lapeer. been there done that
<cmaloney> Not sure I'd call Lapeer "Detroit"
<cmaloney> unless we're calling Toledo "Detroit" too. ;)
<cmaloney> But cool nonetheless
<jrwren> lapeer is detroit like flint is detroit. maybe they used to have the same water system?
<jrwren> What is zareason
<cmaloney> They load Linux on laptops / desktops and sell them
<cmaloney> 6. Governing Law. This Agreement and any sales hereunder shall be governed by the laws of the state of California, without regard to conflicts of laws principles, and excluding the United Nations Convention on the International Sale of Goods.
<cmaloney> that's interesting
<mrgoodcat> lapeer is close enough that lots of people work in detroit
<mrgoodcat> does that count?
<mrgoodcat> meeting people from flint that work in detroit is not unheard of but also uncommon
<jrwren> the foolishness of over-commuters doesn't count for anything more than it is.
<cmaloney> hear hear
<cmaloney> it always seems like someone wants a reward for their dedication
<jrwren> oh it was Marlon last night? last time I came to Mug was years ago when he talked about FB infrastructure.
<cmaloney> Yeah
<cmaloney> it was his two year return to MI. ;)
<jrwren> it was 4 yrs ago that I was there. :)
<waldo323> maybe zareason could sponsor us through the use of a machine for recording our meetings more reliably
<cmaloney> heh
<waldo323> I'd be okay with system76 doing that too
<waldo323> I think system76 has more options
<cmaloney> Or Purism.
<mrgoodcat> zareason sounds like a pizza place
<Scary_Guy> "What's Zareason it tastes so good?" "It's in the sauce, man!"
<Scary_Guy> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAG7pye0V1g
<brousch> The thumb is detroit
<brousch> flint is detroit. sagnasty is detroit
<brousch> ypsi is detroit, but ann arbor is not. We've been over this
<jrwren> lol
<brousch> Anyways, yeah, I thought zareason would be a good hook-up for mug
<brousch> Yeah, lets call Toledo detroit too. I'm OK with that
<jrwren> both toledo and detroit have their own zoos. that is how I know they can't be the same. :p
<rick_h_> michigan role okemos with canonical kind of different https://boards.greenhouse.io/canonical/jobs/1076278
<jrwren> wow, can you share who is the customer?
<jrwren> gotta be TechSmith
<rick_h_> I'm not sure tbh. I just got asked by our hiring person if there's any specific MI contacts she can reach out to around that
<cmaloney> Okemos?
<cmaloney> Whatever it is it's near Lansing
<cmaloney> so either govt or Michigan State
<brousch> This is the only Okemos company I've encountered. They used to come to the Open Source Group in Lansing many years ago. https://www.covenanteyes.com/
<brousch> NVM, it's owosso
<jrwren> you all haven't heard of TechSmith? they make really cool software.
 * rick_h_ has camtasia on this mac 
<waldo323> techsmith is from okemos as well right?
<waldo323> i should read further up heh
<waldo323> last company used their software and I think I got camtasia in a humble bundle not too long ago
<cmaloney> jrwren: I don't use Windows or Mac so I don't keep up with that sort of software. ;)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-08-16
<Scary_Guy> I'm not addicted, I can stop anytime I want to.  I just never want to :D
<Scary_Guy> also "let's shame people for being human" or let's not and mind our own damn business
<jrwren> non-sequitur or misdir
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> party
<jrwren> feels like it should be friday, but its only Thursday.
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> I'm not sure any day feels like they day it should be.
<Scary_Guy> feels like four Mondays, then a Friday usually
<rick_h_> teaching my wife what an "editor" is today...feels like a monday
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> which sort of editor?
<rick_h_> "I thought that was only there for taking notes"
<cmaloney> Oh nice
<rick_h_> she couldn't connect to starbucks wifi and found an askubuntu post using "sudo nano /etc/hosts"
<rick_h_> which she didn't have nano on the machine so it said command not found, though it might have been because she missed the space after nano and before the /
<rick_h_> so I told her to replace nano with gedit, I knew it was on there
<rick_h_> and that brought up "what is this doing, what's a 'gehdit'"
<rick_h_> anyway, now she thinks if she goes back to windows she'll be able to fix these things herself
<cmaloney> Woo hoo
<rick_h_> have at it
<jrwren> a mac would never have the issues. :p
<rick_h_> she went ubuntu because she was so mad at windows
<rick_h_> :P
<jrwren> it would just have other issues.
<rick_h_> all computers do
<jrwren> like... why is my kernel using 2.5GB of my memory?
<cmaloney> a mac would not want to connect to the wifi without a dongle
<jrwren> mac used to get better with every release. now it gets worse.
<rick_h_> it's just funny having "I should be able to fix these things myself" followed directly up by "I don't want to learn how all this works. I don't have time for that"
<rick_h_> had to do the "what would your parents do in this situation?"
<rick_h_> and her realize that's what folks do. Either learn or go to geeksquad once a month
<cmaloney> It's like a confirmation for computers
<cmaloney> Welcome to the congregation; now you get to know all of the dirt
<jrwren> hey, i feel like she does. shit should just work.
<jrwren> at least in the linux case, you haven't paid for anything
<jrwren> but with windows and mac, i've paid thousands over the years for shit that doesn't work quite right. its infuriating.
<rick_h_> yea, but I mean "this wifi thing doesn't work with the google wifi system starbucks bought and installed ..."
<rick_h_> I mean, at some point the various permutations/layers involved is untenable to always work
<jrwren> i literally never have problems connecting to wifi on my apple devices.
<jrwren> i realize that is only my experience and is annecdotal, and yet... it keeps be running this apple junk, because as bad as it is, I know its worse elsewhere.
<rick_h_> yea, they've narrowed down a layer of the moving parts on their end by dictating the hardware set
<rick_h_> linux/windows hasn't been able to do that
<rick_h_> meh, I just figure stuff won't always work
<rick_h_> so I asked her where the mifi was because that's known to work and she'd be off to the races vs looking up askubuntu stuff
<jrwren> lemme guess. its at home :)
<rick_h_> :)
<rick_h_> which is where she's back at now that she can't work from the starbucks
<rick_h_> anyway, very monday feeling
<jrwren> yeah. that sucks.
<rick_h_> with the rain to help give it that proper monday overcast
<jrwren> i just get so angry at macos kernel_task CPU and memory usage. its infuriating.
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Have you been to the Starbucks to see what they're doing?
<cmaloney> I mean, not today, but in the past?
<rick_h_> cmaloney: yea, they want you to create an account and sign in so I just mifi now. I refuse to do the account stuff
<cmaloney> Oh fuck that shit
<cmaloney> what's the point of going there then if they're going to try to track you
<rick_h_> yea, exactly
<cmaloney> I had my "I want to be a hermit and leave tech behind" moment yesterday
<jrwren> only just now?
<cmaloney> looked online at how to enable DnD on an individual cordless phone (Panasonic cordless. Yes. shut up).
<cmaloney> and found a video
<cmaloney> the video literally was just some cutesy animation oabout how thos woman twas frustrated that she would get calls in the night
<cmaloney> no instructions, no nothing.
<cmaloney> 2 minutes of animation saying that it was possible and nothing else
<cmaloney> and a list of model numbers of phones that support it
<cmaloney> https://channel.panasonic.com/contents/12462/
<jrwren> on youtube, right?
<jrwren> i click on that, click play, and my work macbook pro plays it at full audio now matter what audio adjustment I set it to.
<cmaloney> Oh that's nice
<waldo323> jrwren, it heard you talking about how it just works i guess
<jrwren> yeah, i dunno WTF.
<jrwren> its super crazy tech day. everything is broken.
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> I think it's karma saying "don't get cocky". ;)
<jrwren> oh no. i complain about EVERYTHING
<jrwren> i pretty much hate everything.
<cmaloney> Have you considered knitting?
<jrwren> i have!
<waldo323> rebooting is often a good option for our users, tends to fix things/finish applying patches
<jrwren> ;-;
<cmaloney> blergh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-08-17
<Scary_Guy> morning
<jrwren> good morning
<cmaloney> morning
<Scary_Guy> was playing with my avegant glyph.  I must have an older firmware or something because there is no head tracking and 3D has no overlap :/
<Scary_Guy> Probably just sell it for what I got it for and save up for a real set like OSVR, or maybe something even less proprietary.
<cmaloney> JoDee got me a 19x19 Go board for my birthday. :)
<cmaloney> It's really col
<cmaloney> comes with plastic stones as well. They're HUGE
<_stink_> do you both play?
<cmaloney> JoDee's agreed to learn
<cmaloney> I've played a little bit, but I'm not good at it
<brousch> I used to play online
<brousch> 2 jobs ago when I was super bored. I think cmaloney and I played quite a bit then
<cmaloney> Yeah, we did
<cmaloney> Haven't played online since hten
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-08-18
<cmaloney> Good morning
<_stink_> good morning
<Scary_Guy> afternoon
#ubuntu-us-mi 2019-08-13
<cmaloney> Happy birthday jrwren
<cmaloney> Also: Good morning
<jrwren> thanks!
<jrwren> i realized last night that 21yrs have elapsed since I was born... twice now
<cmaloney> Yeah, that's a fun realization
<cmaloney> I've realized that pretty soon the time since I was 30 will be able to buy cigarettes and vote.
<mrgoodcat> hbd jrwren
<jrwren> ty
<Scary_Guy> Congrats.  I'll have to make it out to Necto or something when my car is fixed.
<Scary_Guy> Also, sorry I missed tonight. Muffler fell off.
<cmaloney> Oof. No good
#ubuntu-us-mi 2019-08-14
<cmaloney> Hope you have some better lucj with your muffler
<Scary_Guy> Thanks
<rick_h> morning
<widox> mornin
<cmaloney> Good morning
<widox> its great outside. drinking some coffee with my laptop on the back deck, ftw!
<cmaloney> Ahhhh
<rick_h> nice
<rick_h> I had a nice door-less drive to the starbucks where I got my coffee
<rick_h> :( going to have to put the doors back on soon
<cmaloney> ?
<cmaloney> doorless?
<rick_h> https://photos.app.goo.gl/FQ9M84UdryKDhi5g9
<rick_h> https://photos.app.goo.gl/6BnRaLA2erdfMFh88
<rick_h> summertime funtime
<cmaloney> Reminder: We live in the Detroit Metro Area. ;)
<cmaloney> there are doors for a reason, good sir. :)
<cmaloney> (But that is kinda cool)
<rick_h> so much fun
<widox> nice
<widox> I'm also glad to see a dirty Jeep :)
<rick_h> oh well yea, actually that's one of the big :( on the soft top is I tried a touchless car wash once...it's only getting manual cleaning love
<cmaloney> Yeah, the current crop of touchless washers are just high pressure dirt shufflers
<rick_h> well it's most that the soft top feels like it's going to tear apart in a car wash
<cmaloney> Oh
<cmaloney> So get a car wash without the top
<cmaloney> problem = solved.
<rick_h> well in that case just leave it out in the rain :P
<cmaloney> hey, I don't make the rules. ;)
<jrwren> zomg, my friend had a baby last night... ON MY BIRTHDAY!!!
<cmaloney> The nerve
<_stink_> there can be only one
<jrwren> no way! one of my best friends for over 20yrs has same bday as me.
<jrwren> My neice turned 1yo yesterday, and now my friend has this baby last night
<rick_h> jrwren:  hah that's awesome
<mrgoodcat> One True Birth Day apparently
<cmaloney> That would be my birthday
<cmaloney> all other birthdays are inferior
<cmaloney> (save for Rick H's birthday, but that's because it's a whole month)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2019-08-15
<rick_h> anyone else get financial notifications from their retirement stuff?
<rick_h> it's really sad, every day wake up to a "what happened yesterday..." email
<rick_h> ugh
<mrgoodcat> sad that you get the email or sad the contents of the email?
<mrgoodcat> or sad that you look forward to it
<rick_h> sad that it's necessary
<mrgoodcat> fwiw no i do not get such emails
<mrgoodcat> i get one every once in a while (monthly? quarterly?) that is a summary of recent performance
<rick_h> yea, that's all I used to get
<rick_h> but with recent turmoil over the last few months I keep getting "don't freak out, here's what happened yesterday" emails lol
<mrgoodcat> ah
<mrgoodcat> mine has actually been surprisingly stable
<rick_h> "The markets saw a major dip as the S&P 500 closed on Wednesday with a loss of 2.9%. I wanted to take a moment and provide a brief summary of what happened."
<jrwren> rick_h: what brokerage? principal?
<rick_h> jrwren:  morgan stanley
<rick_h> jrwren:  funny for years never a peep and then this year these "don't be scared" emails lol
<jrwren> ha! too funny. I've definitely got them from others at other times, but not yet today about yesterday
<rick_h> jrwren:  yea, I guess I bring it up as I've had one nearly every day this week
<rick_h> Mondays dip, Tues surge, Wed dip
<rick_h> wonder what's in store today!
 * jrwren rolls the dice
<rick_h> https://photos.app.goo.gl/eHPBTfYF7Y9s69LL7
<rick_h> one or two a month and then Aug hit
<jrwren> OH WOW!
<cmaloney> yeah, i'm not counting on retiring
<jrwren> cmaloney: i thought you were already retired.
<cmaloney> i'll just xash out, take the tax hit, and open a banana stand
<cmaloney> no, freelance, not retired
<cmaloney> jesus, how old do you think I am?
<jrwren> 48
<jrwren> i thought you were leanfire :)
<cmaloney> fuck you, thsts accurate
<cmaloney> at least next month it is
<cmaloney> :)
<cmaloney> leanfire. hah
<jrwren> you class of 1989 people are easy for me to remember. I love you all.
<cmaloney> awww
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: there's money in the banana stand
<cmaloney> always
<jrwren> THERES ALWAYS MONEY IN THE BANANA STAND
<cmaloney> no touchibg
<jrwren> NO TOUCHING!
<jrwren> man... i haven't watched that in a while.
<rick_h> hah, my coworker and I think there's got to be something for us in the sheep herding business
<rick_h> at least you get to hang out outside
<rick_h> with some grass under your feet
<jrwren> i'd switch to farming if it paid anywehre close and i could keep the same lifestyle, but it doesn't and I can't.
<rick_h> hah, I'm willing to kill the lifestyle. I keep telling my wife that once my son goes off to college I'm taking the truck and RV and going mobile
<rick_h> she can keep the house if she wants to :P
<jrwren> while working or while retired?
<rick_h> both?
<jrwren> because yeah, i should definitely do that when the kid goes off to college while working.
<rick_h> I mean I've got 10years before then
<rick_h> and at this rate definitely not going to be retire worthy
<jrwren> I've got 5, and same :)
<rick_h> it's crazy, we're working to get my in-laws setup in assisted living care and such
<rick_h> crazy their pensions cover their costs for the most part
<rick_h> and for us it's all retirement income or bust
<jrwren> wow, that is really nice.
<jrwren> does medicare cover assisted living :)
<rick_h> heh they make enough that they don't get all the great features
<rick_h> so no idea
<rick_h> it's good now, but her mom will need memory care very soon and such so it'll get more $$ for sure
<rick_h> but crazy they don't work and have income that took me 6 years after college to get to
<jrwren> nice to hear about some well-off boomers. Most of hte boomers I know are social security and nothing else
<rick_h> yea, that's what the FIL gets, and the my MIL gets her pension.
<rick_h> anyway, top of mind with getting them settled these days
<rick_h> taking over on a lot of their accounts/etc to help them keep track and such
<jrwren> wow, how old are they?
<rick_h> I was curious if anyone else got scary retirement emails and such. Guess not
<rick_h> 70s
<rick_h> but her mom has dimensia (sp?) and her father isn't in great shape
<jrwren> good health? you mentioned MIL memory care, so I assume no. how about FIL?
<rick_h> so add a bonus 15 years or so
<jrwren> ah, ok, so declining.
<rick_h> mother is in good shape other than the memory issue, father in law is recovering from back surgery #5? and has has an ankle amputated with issues and such
<rick_h> so he's always been "old" for his age
<cmaloney> dementia is no fun. I'm sorry she's going through that
<_stink_> rick_h: my financial advisor has sent out a few emails in response to big market events... targeted mostly at close-to-retiring folks who may freak out
<_stink_> maybe 3 in the last couple of years?
<_stink_> i bet one more is coming
<rick_h> _stink_:  heh, yea definitely making the graphs looks interesting
#ubuntu-us-mi 2019-08-16
 * jrwren shakes fist at comcast
<cmaloney> morning
<Scary_Guy> Why do you use ConCast?
<Scary_Guy> Should move to an area with WoW.  I mean the best thing about them is they aren't ConCast
<jrwren> lol @ "you should move"
<jrwren> I think this one is the outage that will put me over the edge to move to AT&T
<cmaloney> Um, I'd rethink that strategy
<rick_h> I did the move to ATT, but then the speeds brought me bacl
<rick_h> couldn't get more then 5mb up on ATT
<rick_h> at least at my place
<rick_h> paid for more, but they couldn't deliver it
<cmaloney> that's like saying that you're going to show someone by jumping off of a cliff
<cmaloney> Yeah, AT&T hasn't really kept up last I've checked
<cmaloney> Comcast doesn't care, and AT&T's competitive response is to somehow care less
<jrwren> AT&T has fiber in my area. I can get gigabit for ~$70/mo for first year
<rick_h> nice
<jrwren> I've watched them lay the fiber for the past few months. Its been available for a month or so, but I thought it was more $$$$ than it was, and I like my cheap (but still too much $$$) comcast.
<cmaloney> https://www.dslreports.com/forum/uverse
<jrwren> that is just gonna be people complaining about problems.
<jrwren> no one is going to join in there and say, "I'm just so happy with my service"
<cmaloney> Right, but it might be a helpful barometer
<jrwren> i ask jorge, he is across town with att fiber and he loves it.
<jrwren> although, he did say he doesn't get full gigabit no more. lots of neighbors on it and so he says its more like 400Mbit now, lol
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> That's awesome. It's like Cable all over again.
<jrwren> most other end sites aren't configured to send you gigabit anyway. I don't know what speedtest tells him.
<jrwren> another buddy in another neighborhood has had his for a few months and likes it.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2019-08-17
<Scary_Guy> AT$T sucks just as bad as ConCast, just differently.  WoW at least pretends to care where the other two give absolutely zero fvcks until you threaten to leave or sue.
<Scary_Guy> If you do sue, lots of luck with that.
<cmaloney> morning
<Scary_Guy> hi
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-08-12
<cmaloney> CHC tonight if anyone is interested and around
<jrwren> https://developers.redhat.com/blog/2020/08/12/introducing-the-red-hat-flatpak-runtime-for-desktop-containers/
<cmaloney> We're recreating Mac applications, poorly
<jrwren> i dunno, i think it is well.
<cmaloney> What comes to mind for me is "how does this integrate with the DE"
<jrwren> but probably some room for improvement.
<cmaloney> eg: themes, hints, etc.
<jrwren> ah yup... "oh, sandboxed, it can't read your theme settings in your homedir"
<jrwren> "but it can talk to dbus no probably"
<jrwren> I'm guessing, I have no idea.
<cmaloney> Yeah, DBus is probably handling this
<cmaloney> as soon as I posted that's what came to mind
<cmaloney> Interesting times ahead
<cmaloney> also will be fun if there's a security problem in the container and not all of them get updated
<cmaloney> I never thought that the desktop of the future would be a rack of virtualized machines
<cmaloney> yet, here we are
<jrwren> not really any difference than a security update in a non-container.
<cmaloney> right, but the chances of an OS update making the fix are higher than the container making the fix
<jrwren> how so?
<jrwren> there is nothing that says flatpack gets updated separately from an RPM or DEB.
<jrwren> notice there is no flatpack separate store mentioned in the article.
<jrwren> this isn't that snappy b.s. ;)
<cmaloney> Ah
<cmaloney> "A runtime is a filesystem image with system-level libraries and other files. As shown in Figure 1, a system can contain a variety of runtimes, with each being used by multiple applications."
<cmaloney> "In addition to saving space, another big advantage of the runtime separation is handling security updates. If there is a security bug in a system library, we only need to update the runtime, and donât need to rebuild every application. A runtime canât possibly include every library that any application would want to use, so libraries can also be bundled with the application. An
<cmaloney> application typically uses a mix of libraries from the runtime and bundled libraries."
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-08-13
<cmaloney> jrwren: Happy Birthday!
<jrwren> thanks!
<greg-g> jrwren: have fun today!
<jrwren> I shall try. I just finished a book, so that is a good start.
<greg-g> ooo, day off then, too, I assume?
<greg-g> I try to take my birthday week off each year. Being July 2nd helps with that ;) But I failed this year, but only worked 2 days. Stupid fiscal year boundary and other conflating events.
<jrwren> yeah, CSCO give your bday off
<greg-g> good deal
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-08-14
<rick_h> always take your b-day off imo
<jrwren> smart.
<cmaloney> <3
