#ubuntu-discuss 2012-10-23
<moo_cow> biggest issue is with the Ubuntu Software Center. It is a good start, but needs alot of work
#ubuntu-discuss 2012-10-24
<guntbert> some remarks about the upgrade process: the user is asked (several times) if he want to keep/replace certain config files. There is no way to know when those questions will pop up - makes the upgrade last a lot longer than necessary unless I watch it all the time - against what package would I file a bug in this case?
<MrChrisDruif> I think there isn't a clear cut answer for that. I guess all packages which got new config files?
<MrChrisDruif> Then again, I'm no developer.
<MrChrisDruif> I think I'd go for update-manager, because you the "end-user" got a problem with the upgrade progress guntbert
<guntbert> MrChrisDruif: will do, thx for the advice (finding the right package is sometimes the hardest part of a good bug report :)
<MrChrisDruif> No probs.
<guntbert> on a totally different topic: what might be the right place/situation where the ubuntu gods (iow mark shuttleworth) would be really listening to the concerns about unity-lens-shopping being opt-out instead of opt-in (as it should be)
<guntbert> I read his blog and the discussion there, and he seems not to hear what many are talking about
<IdleOne> I don't think that his response would be any different if you wrote a letter or sent him an email.
<MrChrisDruif> He has his talks on IRC once a month I think. But talking to Canonical staff also worth your time.
<MrChrisDruif> jono_; ^
<IdleOne> guntbert: there is a Ask Mark session at 10:00UTC on the 25th
<IdleOne> tomorrow*
<IdleOne> I am sure he will get many questions about it then
<guntbert> IdleOne: MrChrisDruif: I was not so concerned about throwing my "very special" voice into the melee - and contacting him personally about this was mot my intention - where is that session held?
<IdleOne> in #ubuntu-classroom http://is.gd/8rtIi |
<IdleOne> the times on the calendar are UTC
<guntbert> IdleOne: thx, I'll have to read the logs - lesson time :-)
<IdleOne> same here, that will be at 6:00AM my time and i don't think I will be awake
<MrChrisDruif> Noon, I'm at work at that time ^_^
<jono_> guntbert, hey
<jono_> Mark is well aware of the concerns, I can assure youi
<jono_> he reads the blogs, discussions, and mailing list threads
<guntbert> hey jono_ : I am sure he is aware, but his responses didn't sound as if he really had listened
<jono_> guntbert, how so?
<jono_> I think he responded appropriately, he just disagreed with much of the concern
<guntbert> well in the blog he didn't adress the opt-out vs opt-in policy at all, and the "we have root" was just outrageous in my opinion
<jono_> guntbert, to be fair, his point about root was simply a point about trust
<jono_> Ubuntu developers do have root...packages run as root
<jono_> he was making the point that it is fair for our users to trust Ubuntu developers
<jono_> as we have always had root packages and this trust has always served our users well
<jono_> guntbert, in terms of the opt out thing, this was address in Cristian Parrino's post
<jono_> http://blog.canonical.com/2012/10/12/searching-in-the-dash-in-ubuntu-12-10-an-update/
 * guntbert hadn't seen that post yet
<IdleOne> The we have root comment was meant to be cheaky
<guntbert> jono_: to trust someone
<jono_> IdleOne, indeed
<guntbert> jono_: to trust someone not to mess my system is a completely different sort of trust than to trust them with my data
<IdleOne> it was not meant to be literal, language barriers can make it difficult to grasp the humour that was intended.
<jono_> guntbert, right, and I agree, but the point he made was that Ubuntu is built on a foundation of trust, and if we have managed to handle that trust well for eight years, it should provide some reassurance to our users
<IdleOne> guntbert: although you do have a firm grasp of the English language I believe that some of the more suttle humour may still escape you.
<jono_> guntbert, if you don't like the feature, switch it off
<jono_> there is a button
<jono_> it was definitely a tongue in cheek comment
<IdleOne> subtle*
<jono_> no doubt, and I think you raise a good point, IdleOne, about the subtlety sometimes being lost
<IdleOne> jono_: I think Mark is often misunderstood, he does IMO have a special sense of humour
<jono_> IdleOne, I agree
<guntbert> it is too late for me today to go into a deeper discussion - but jono_ you last remark (off-button) touches exactly my main concern: opt-out vs opt.in
<MrChrisDruif> IdleOne; subtle humour gets lost without the non-verbal part. =)
<IdleOne> guntbert: I agree that the shopping lens should be an opt-in, BUT that would mean less users would get to see it. making it an opt-out feature at least allows the user to see it one time.
<IdleOne> MrChrisDruif: true, text is not always the best medium for humour
<MrChrisDruif> =D
<jono_> guntbert, was nice chatting
<jono_> have a nice evening
<guntbert> IdleOne: true, but the standard rules for privacy and data protection require just that: "offer it", promote it - but let people opt-in
<guntbert> jono_: thx for listening - have a nice time too
#ubuntu-discuss 2013-10-22
<cyberalex4life> Hello!
<hrnz> hello cyberalex4life
<cyberalex4life> hello!
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-10-19
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<OerHeks> hey lotuspsychje :-D
<OerHeks> good-monday-morning
<lotuspsychje> hey OerHeks :p
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-15-10-wily-werewolf-release-candidate-images-out-now-494782.shtml
<OerHeks> one for you: FUD or True ? https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/valve-looks-like-its-removed-the-steamos-icon-for-games-that-work-on-linux-but-not-perfectly-on-steamos.6085
<lotuspsychje> lets c
<lotuspsychje> hmm evil java :p
<lotuspsychje> one of the future days something magic will happen for linux gaming youl see OerHeks :p
<OerHeks> jups, gamemakers should be sued not to bother linux gamers
<lotuspsychje> oh-oh..black screens comming to us : http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Ubuntu-15.10-Radeon-Issues
<OerHeks> not here, Nvidia.
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lordievader> Good morning.
<EriC^^> evening lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon EriC^^
<lotuspsychje> all ok here?
<daftykins> \o
<lotuspsychje> hi there daftykins
<lotuspsychje> https://insights.ubuntu.com/2015/10/19/tendering-with-ubuntu-2/
<daftykins> HP everywhere O_O
<lotuspsychje> !isitoutyet
<ubot5> Not yet!
<daftykins> :)
<lotuspsychje> :p
<OerHeks> RC is uit toch ?
<lotuspsychje> yess
<lotuspsychje> horrid netbook lol
<lotuspsychje> okay out for dinner fellas
<lotuspsychje> enjoy!
<daftykins> it's alright for some ;)
<daftykins> EriC^^: PanV has been waiting for you desperately ;)
<EriC^^> :)
<EriC^^> he couldn't boot yesterday, i think he has to fsck the drive
<daftykins> i was trying to suggest that earlier but got ignored
<EriC^^> his /boot was missing from grub yesterday or something
<daftykins> PanV is a self-confessed "oh i can't read guides" kind of user
<EriC^^> i wonder what his problem is, fsck was clean
<daftykins> pinkware, i think :)
<EriC^^> what's that? :D
<daftykins> same as "the problem exists between the keyboard and chair" :)
<EriC^^> lol
<HackerII> rectal cranial inversion ?
<daftykins> hmm, they seem to be ranking the cess pools of the internet
<EriC^^> 3.16
<EriC^^> is the utopic kernel right?
<daftykins> yeah utopic HWE atop trusty probably
<EriC^^> oh ok
<EriC^^> he says 15.04 :/
<EriC^^> isn't that 3.19?
<daftykins> should be
<daftykins> haha doesn't remember login
<daftykins> that guy... seriously.
<OerHeks> .. so any advise with sudo, he didn't do it?
<EriC^^> nah he was in a live usb
<daftykins> nah it was a chroot earlier so it would've been ok then
<EriC^^> admin admin
<EriC^^> sounds like a bad IT staff pass or something
<daftykins> yeah :(
<OerHeks> Yes, and yesterday and such ?... i believe a lot,..
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: IRT PanV ... HWE a factorr ? Maybe " xserver-xorg-lts-vivid " ?
<EriC^^> hmm good idea
<wileee> that is an antagonistic user always, heh, "no help for you"
<daftykins> the nug700 guy?
<wileee> yeah
<daftykins> mmm tough customer
<Bashing-om> wileee: Yep, what we do is difficult enough, we do not need someone standing on the brake when we push .
<wileee> no doubt, ;)
<wileee> I have volunteered on a crisis line, it was easier and more fun
<Bashing-om> It would be funner here is my knowledge base was up to the question(s) . However I limp along with what I have , It remains fun enough that I do this rather than that .
<daftykins> 'smb' = 'somebody' haha
<daftykins> i'm not sure i could help anyone on a crisis line, if i understand what that is correctly
<wileee> here I get a laugh at the mistakes I make, heh, the crisis line was a well funded comfortable org with good training, I was a psych major, place was full of soft science folks
<wileee> good computer setup with resources and emergency contact, reverse IP
<daftykins> ah neat
<wileee> surprising similar to irc really, I had not really thought about it
<wileee> on the phone is mall
<pauljw> hey...
<daftykins> hey \o
<daftykins> this guy trying to download a .tar and boot it by copying it onto a flash drive, i don't think there's enough cider in the house right now
<pauljw> lol
<daftykins> oooh those different distro folks really get my goat *shakes fist*
<daftykins> ok time to clock out, nn folks \o
<Bashing-om> NN. wee try and hold it together til ya return .
<daftykins> ^_^ you'll do just dandy!
<pauljw> :)
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-10-20
<pImPnUtS> What flavor of Ubuntu are you all running ?
<pImPnUtS> I am running Ultimate Edition 4.6
<pImPnUtS> If anyone likes Python come visit me over at pImPsoFPyTh0n
<pImPnUtS> We talk about everything from Python to Monty Python !!
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<pImPnUtS> Morning
<lotuspsychje> hi pImPnUtS
<pImPnUtS> What's up Ubuntu Lovers !!
<pImPnUtS> If anyone wants come visit my Chan pImPsoFPyTh0n
<pImPnUtS> We talk about Python and everything Monty Python
<lotuspsychje_> philipballew: morning
<philipballew> lotuspsychje_, hey there. How goes your morning?
<philipballew> its night here :)
<lotuspsychje_> fine tnx mate
<lotuspsychje_> and you?
<philipballew> no problems here. im just watching netflix
<lotuspsychje_> any series your following?
<philipballew> lotuspsychje_, currently watching a show called 30 rock
<philipballew> its good for me personally.
<lotuspsychje_> ok enjoy
<philipballew> do you have anything you are watching?
<lotuspsychje_> im a movie guy
<lotuspsychje_> all kind of types actually
<lotuspsychje_> bbl
<lordievader> Good morning.
<BluesKaj> 'Morning all
<Ben64> lol
<Ben64> i messed up my system, i'm leaving ubuntu!
<cfhowlett> "screw you guys, I'm going home."
<Ben64> because any other distro won't have the same problems if you cause them?
<cfhowlett> Ben64, if ever there was  a pebkas error, he was it.  I'd like to know how he brute forced 14.04 - 15.04 just out of morbid curiousity
<Ben64> 14.04 - 15.04 ?
<Ben64> i didn't see that
<cfhowlett> that was his claim.
<cfhowlett> that's why he was told repeatedly to reinstall
<Ben64> theonlyjoey?
<cfhowlett> ah, no.  sorry.  confused with stobix
<Ben64> ah
<Ben64> thought my logs were missing time
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> mmm Amy's ice cream in Austin was amazing
<daftykins> r...r...r...rage quit :)
<daftykins> working a Casablanca quote into IRC support --> IT level pro
<Bashing-om> daftykins: When you are good, YOU are good ?
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> this 'oncemeold' deserves the winter award for... well several unrepeatable expletives
<TJ-> :D
<Bashing-om> bekks deserves a hugh reward for exerting impressive patience with oncemeold !
<daftykins> indeed
<daftykins> perhaps cookies are in order
<TJ-> A stiff drink more-like
<daftykins> hehehe
<daftykins> perhaps we should start gauging helpees by quantity of drinks required
<Bashing-om> daftykins: What is the highest order of cookies ? Me thinks chocolate chip /// .
<daftykins> hmm, i'm quite fond of the belgian chocolate ones i can get here - they're probably pushing the ranks of cookies :)
<Bashing-om> ohhhh ... Belgian chocolate ! .. now I am jealous .
<wileee> I prefer my carmel ignore
<Bashing-om> I guess the IRC cookie bin needs to be extended .
<TJ-> Internet Real Cookies ?
<daftykins> i really want cookies now :(
<daftykins> i bought some werthers originals sweets today but i made a mistake, they're some kind of caramel filled ones instead of the standard hard ones
<Bashing-om> TJ-: I bet getting that " Internet Real Cookies " will really push your abilities .
 * wileee hits the local med dispensary, and leaves there special cookies on the back table
<wileee> ;)
<TJ-> Bulls Eyes we used to call them; As a kid used to carry bags of them in the farm lorry when we were out on trips
<wileee> they slow you down slightly, but the depth of thought is wide
<Bashing-om> wileee: After all is good, it is - I am told - the thought that counts .
<wileee> that is the idea, I like that there is a core o helpers that will help anyone all the way to the end, makes it easier for all of us.
<TJ-> Some users seem to be their own worst enemy, sometimes you've got to let them fail spectularly to get the message home
<TJ-> s/spectularly/spectacularly/
<wileee> Yeah and have the patience to do that, my theory is people who have famly'd up and have kids.
<wileee> I've heard that is the test, heh
<daftykins> usually is those that are refusing to do things right, yeah
<TJ-> I had a weird one on my Wily laptop earlier during a package upgrade... update-initramfs run via dpkg complained about not being able to find the modules for "initrd.img-v.2.0.14-lowlatency" - note the version string!
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> do you even use an LL kernel on there o0
<TJ-> Yes
<TJ-> always; its much more responsive for a desktop system
<daftykins> ah well at least that was close :>
<daftykins> interesting, i always thought it was just the Linux ricers doing that
<TJ-> "v.2.0-14" ... should be "4.2.0-14"
<TJ-> no; -generic is OK for servers but if you want user responsive behaviour lowlatency is much better - no weird lags in the GUI whilst something else is active
<Bashing-om> TJ-: Someone going where no man should go, and editing system files ?
<TJ-> Bashing-om: I suspect I must have mistyped a few days ago whilst doing an update but I don't see sign of it in the shell history; Made me scratch my head though :)
<TJ-> oncemeold is more like a Google pre-selection test :D
<Bashing-om> TJ-: How long did it take you to figure that out ? I have done boo boos and taken me days ( as it still happens ) to tumble onto what I had done .
<TJ-> Bashing-om: Well; first I assumed it had come from the packages being updated, but then I twigged the version had a 'v' in it, and was missing the '4' so started to suspect the user :D
<TJ-> I swear the auto-suggest on my Android phone has been teaching my fingers some tricks :p
<Bashing-om> TJ-: Uh huh .. loke we keep telling oncemeold .. pay attention to what the package manager is telling you . That said, I still miss lillte innuendos. Try'n to train myself to slow down look and read .
<TJ-> yeah, it's sometimes surprising how the brain will edit what the eyes see, based on expectations
<daftykins> mmm it's a pain that
<daftykins> cor, come back in and the cat's knicked my chair
<daftykins> yay my old RAID just rebuilt happily :) https://www.dropbox.com/s/m3isa56w8qkjnsj/IMG_20151020_172808.jpg?dl=0
<TJ-> You should try it with 3 dogs - they nick the entire sofa!
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> poor TJ- dragged into this sorry state of affairs
<TJ-> Wow, I've never seen someone go backwards so fast as oncemeold
<TJ-> Poor oncemeold... TJ- is off to bed in a few minutes :D
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> oh dear, that leaves all the encryption experience behind for #ubuntu
<TJ-> ecryptfs-recover-private will do 1 of 2 things: 1) search all mount points for the home/.ecryptfs/ directory and offer to mount any EFS found as home/.ecryptfs/<USER>/.Private or 2) unlock/mount a specific location given, e.g. "sudo ecryptfa-recover-private /mnt/home/.ecryptfs/<USER>/.Private" ... it will ask the user if they know the user password and if so, ask for it, and use it. If that fails,
<TJ-> it'll ask for the original master passphrase. If either works, it'll mount the user's unencrypted files in a mktemp dir-name under /tmp/ecryptfs.XXXX
<Bashing-om> If and when I leave this chair behind, we have a Shih Tzu that has the purpose to keep the captains' chair warm . Our devoted companions !
<TJ-> If the user accidentally uses it to mount e.g. /mnt/home/<USER> instead it'll just effective bind-mount that same directory (no unlocking done) under /tmp/ecryptfs.XXXX - which is what oncemeold did earlier
<daftykins> TJ-: nn sir o/
 * TJ- waves
<OerHeks> now wait for the pasteflood :-D
<TJ-> Have fun :)
<Bashing-om> back to the fun room / what ever to do with oncemeold .. Kinda glad it is out of my range .
<daftykins> same here, i have no clue with encryption
<daftykins> and this is a tough customer for sure
<Bashing-om> Going off in a tangent and NOT following advise, not condusive to getting resolution .
<daftykins> indeed :(
<OerHeks> a bot?
<daftykins> he might as well be, he listens that well ;)
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-10-21
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: o/ ... Is better now .. shift change !
<lotuspsychje> hi there Bashing-om :p
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: im early, so you cant run away yet lol
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Oh well .. I have 20 minutes yet befor I start think'n bout exit stage right .
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> lets see whats new in ubuntu land
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: We have had our dillies .. ask daftykins ! Seems settled down recently .
<lotuspsychje> hmmm
<lotuspsychje> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=R9-290-Ubuntu-15s
<lotuspsychje> seems like we gonna have screen issues on 15.10 also
<lotuspsychje> hi philipballew
<Bashing-om> Ok Me eyes is crossing, and mind doing unwonderful things . Time to exit stage right . Yall take care of my light work .
<philipballew> lotuspsychje, hey
<lotuspsychje> sweet dreams Bashing-om
<philipballew> lotuspsychje, up to anything fun in your part of the world?
<lotuspsychje> philipballew: im browsing softpedia linux news :p
<philipballew> anything good lotuspsychje ?
<lotuspsychje> http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/ubuntu-15-10-now-supports-steam-controllers-after-being-patched-494941.shtml
<lotuspsychje> reading randomly
<lotuspsychje> !isitoutyet
<ubot5> Not yet!
<lordievader> Good morning
<lotuspsychje> !wily
<ubot5> Ubuntu 15.10 (Wily Werewolf) will be the 23rd release of Ubuntu. Discussion in #ubuntu+1
<lotuspsychje> friday d-day
<TJ-> Apple pie day :)
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> bbl
<lordievader> That's odd, usually it is a thursday.
<TJ-> Impressive! OnceMe is still messing it up 12 hours later.
<OerHeks> :-)
<cfhowlett> TJ-, no he was here yesterday.  more like 24.  I THINK he's doing some fairly high level stuff with only a noob level of understanding. that's just like my opinion, man.
<TJ-> cfhowlett: I know, but I was telling him how to do the ecryptfs stuff 12 hours ago and left for bed with the joke tthat the way he was going I'd likely see him at breakfast-time still working on it :)
<cfhowlett> sometimes the best thing to do is ... back away.  at least he did his backups.
<Ben64> any of you fine people good at java/android programming
<TJ-> Depends what you mean by 'good' :p
<Ben64> trying to move bits around
<TJ-> literal, digital BInary digiTs ?
<Ben64> and write it to NFC tags. instead of the normal binary 1,2,4,8,16,32... it goes 262144...33554432,1024...131072,4...512
<TJ-> Big-endian?
<Ben64> uh... maybe?
<Ben64> http://hastebin.com/ipubivageg
<Ben64> thats the order, from right to left the bits represent
<TJ-> looks like it just needs to bit-shift to adjust from structure format to CPU
<Ben64> hm
<TJ-> e.g. 262144 >> 18 = 1
<Ben64> but that wouldn't work for everything
<TJ-> No; I assume the NFC structures have different elements, which require different shifts
<Ben64> nfc just gets raw data written to it
<TJ-> lines 1-8 look like they are 1 byte using >> 18, lines 9-16 a byte using >> 10, etc
<Ben64> at first i thought it was encrypted, because i couldn't find a pattern
<Ben64> then i found a way to write the raw data to the nfc using my phone, and put a 1 in every place and recorded the value
<TJ-> You need the tag specs for the tags you're working with. Maybe the NFC Forum has them, or you may need manufacturer/card specific specs
<Ben64> what do you mean specs
<TJ-> specifications for the tag data, usually NDEF
<Ben64> yeah it doesn't do that, its very basic
<Ben64> first two blocks are all that matter for this, just has 64 bits of information
<Ben64> and just a number in hex
<TJ-> http://nfc-forum.org/our-work/specifications-and-application-documents/specifications/nfc-forum-technical-specifications/
<TJ-> If you're working with something non-standard you'd need the manufacturer specs. that detail the data layout and meaning
<TJ-> Your data looks like, MSB first: 41-48, 49-56, 57-64, 1-8, 9-16, 17-24, 25-32
<Ben64> just need to change 1234567890(decimal) to 100100100101100000001011010010 to 1001000000000000000000000000010000000101101001000000001100101 to 1200000080B48065(hex)
<Ben64> took 4 minutes by hand :|
<Ben64> and i think i made a typo
<TJ-> LOL ... so split your decimal up into bytes, then bit-shift and insert the bits with an AND mask into the result
<Ben64> not sure i understand that
<lotuspsychje> oO
<TJ-> Ben64: something like this http://paste.ubuntu.com/12885228/
<Ben64> oooooh
<TJ-> Ben64: that was a bit too simplistic - after the bitwise AND the shift value needs to be adjusted to account for how far into 'input' the bits already are. you may need to move some bits right rather than left, too, to get tot heir absolute position in nfc_data
<Ben64> yeah
<TJ-> probably more like this, although these values seem to give the wrong result compared to what you gave earlier: http://paste.ubuntu.com/12885276/
<Ben64> yeah some are still not in the right position but looks tweakable
<TJ-> If you test with the value 3735928559 (0xDEADBEEF) you can see where the bits end up in the result
<Ben64> how did you come up with the mask
<Ben64> deadbeef = 3735928559 = 11011110101011011011111011101111 -> 0011011100000000000000000000000011000000101110110110111110101011 = 37000000C0BB6FAB
<Ben64> the java comes up with 6F0003000000BB, which is missing a lot of bits
<TJ-> yeah, as I said, you'll need to figure out the bit shifts correctly. I'm not sure you can do it that directly because NFC generally uses big-endian, although your pastebin seems to indicate byte-wise is little endian.
<TJ-> This might be closer, assuming it is using little-endian. http://paste.ubuntu.com/12885429/
<Ben64> 281474976710655 gives an output of -ff00fcc00001
<Ben64> should come out to FFFF3F00C0FFFFFF
<Ben64> closer than before for sure
<Ben64> not sure if the negative is avoidable
<TJ-> if its called with 1,2,3,4 in sequence you can see the way the input maps to the output, and it looks correct for that least significant byte
<TJ-> the -ve sign is because in Java all numbers are signed. You can ignore it
<TJ-> if you call the program with 1,2,4,8,16,32,64,128,256,... you can check each bit position translates correctly, and adjust the algorithm if needed
<Ben64> good idea
<TJ-> you've got to cope with the NFC data format not mapping directly to 8-bit blocks, it appears to take the first 2 LSbs out first, then takes blocks of 8 bits at a time
<Ben64> the nfc tag has 28 blocks of 4 bytes each
<Ben64> the first two are the only ones that get any data
<TJ-> Ben64: a bit of trial-and-error, but this seems to be swapping the bits correctly: http://paste.ubuntu.com/12885839/
<Ben64> oh thats a lot different from what i came up with
<TJ-> I realised the bits in each byte need order reversing, because it isn't true big-endian - can't just do a byte-order swap.
<Ben64> hmm, doesn't seem to work at least here
<TJ-> huh weird; the last 2 bytes of the result never get set. I only tested with the first 4!
<Ben64> http://paste.ubuntu.com/12885866/ this worked except for the very last test
<TJ-> ahh, no, just the last byte that doesn't get processed
<Ben64> yeah it turns into -8000000000000000
<TJ-> I thought the bit mapping had to match the original pastebin? in that, the bit-order is least-significant first for each byte, rather than little-endian where it'd be most-significant first
<Ben64> it does match
<Ben64> tried 2^0 through 2^47
<Ben64> only 2^33 is wrong, because of it being signed
<TJ-> I can't see how the sign would affect 2^33, long is 64-bit
<Ben64> because 2^33 gets moved over to 2^63
<TJ-> oh, I see what you mean
<TJ-> swap the System.out.println(Long.toString() ) to be System.out.format("%016x\n", nfc_data)
<Ben64> :o
<Ben64> works perfectly
<TJ-> without a bit-order-swap it doesn't make sense, at least, the bit-order doesn't match the original pastebin
<Ben64> how doesn't it?
<Ben64> oh maybe you saw it left to right instead of right to left? i thought i said right to left
<TJ-> the order of the bit-value increasing low-to-high. I assumed the first 'bit' (line) was the first bit on the wire
<Ben64> the order is 1 10 11 100 101 111 .... and so on in binary
<Ben64> scanned them into the system and wrote down what the output was from the system
<Ben64> oh wait no i did 1 10 100 1000 10000 100000
<daftykins> hey folks
<daftykins> did our favourite encrypted /home and broken install customer from last night come back?
<OerHeks> Yes, he did.
<TJ-> Oh yeah! was here at midday
<daftykins> oh dear Tux, was it painful?
<OerHeks> When finished, he was anxious about the backup drive, if it gets stolen
<daftykins> last i saw he asked if a clean install to his / partition would be ok
<daftykins> hahaha - we all know all he's got is cat pics like me ;)
<OerHeks> So i said, "ssd or hdd can both be encrypted"
<OerHeks> So how are you t'day, mightmares about encryption?
<daftykins> i think it would've gotten to that stage had i seen that user again today :)
<daftykins> all good here thanks, went out for a lunch with some friends then got to play with a new toy at a clients...
 * daftykins fumbles for a pic
<daftykins> how are we all doing?
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/zojfkvnxq744qxv/IMG_20151021_160816.jpg?dl=0
<OerHeks> wow 7"
<daftykins> yep ideal for their almost-2-year-old
<daftykins> hey i don't make much of what Apple are branching out into... https://www.dropbox.com/s/ndqwrjcjz8x3t31/IMG_20151021_185124.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> :D
<OerHeks> great ...
<OerHeks> MS makes openssh opensource .. http://news.slashdot.org/story/15/10/20/1925226/microsoft-publishes-openssh-for-windows-code
<daftykins> ooh!
<daftykins> oh Tux he's back...
<TJ-> Is this my new nickname!?
<OerHeks> TuxJ-
<daftykins> XD
 * TJ- rolls penguins
<daftykins> i prefer to sharpen them
<TJ-> Wow! OnceMe reminds me of my father - if something can be done opposite to common-sense, it is!
<daftykins> <OnceMe> TJ-, *I* am your father...
<daftykins> "nooooooooo!"
 * TJ- digs a big hole and sticks 'father' back in it!
<OerHeks> I remember, i was 8 years old, my father tried to fix the radio/cassette/recordplayer, when he was done, he had a pile of parts in his hand.. they weren't needed at all :-D
<daftykins> d'aww
<OerHeks> funny thing is, all worked
<daftykins> O_O
<daftykins> amazing
<OerHeks> Yes, so my logic got screwed up, now you know
<daftykins> is it me or have we particularly got some really stubborn users lately?
<daftykins> is winter bringing them all out of the woodwork somehow?
<OerHeks> i just looked at the full moon calendar .. 6 days to go
<TJ-> I think it's a conspiracy
<daftykins> oh no, not another full moon
<OerHeks> i wanted to reply: ijar, thanks, but i am not going to suggest that url.
<daftykins> we'll get all the other utopic (14.10) holdouts ;)
<daftykins> jpds: yay
<OerHeks> :-)
<daftykins> jpds: we were just discussing a coming full-moon which might bring all the rest of the 14.10 users out of the woodwork to be told they're EOL ;)
<jpds> sigh
<daftykins> but yeah, in just the last week i'd say the users are getting more awkward with us
<daftykins> "i won't follow your link i want you to check this one" is just pants-on-head retarded to me
<Bashing-om> daftykins: My attitude for those difficult: Like the Bible says, shake the dust from your feet, and just walk away .
<daftykins> *nod* i really do need to make some progress on letting those go :)
<jpds> Maybe we're just too nice as a community
<daftykins> well we all know i have my grumpy days!
<Bashing-om> Well, I say, as a "community" they need to learn/be taught to get along .
<daftykins> it must say something that people running all the other distros flock there :)
<daftykins> DosTuMai: wb
<DosTuMai> Thankies.
<DosTuMai> I have home-made duffnuts.
<daftykins> what be they o0
<DosTuMai> Doughnuts.
<DosTuMai> With apple filling stuff that was messy to make. So tasty. Not as awesome as muffins, though.
<EriC^^> i made doughnuts a couple times
<EriC^^> ( uploads mandatory pics )
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i'm always saying how we can't really get proper doughnuts here, no company that specifically does 'em
<DosTuMai> They're so easy to make!
<daftykins> meh, effort :P
<DosTuMai> Pffft, you're saying this to someone who bakes every morning before work...
<EriC^^> http://imgur.com/iIIuqvg
<EriC^^> they're real easy daftykins , but the part about dipping in oil and stuff sucks
<EriC^^> my favorite to do is muffins or cupcakes, they're really easy and you dont need to wait for them or dip in oil or anything
<DosTuMai> There is no bacon involved, so it's not that awesome...
<EriC^^> and you can eat them like couple days later even, the doughnuts go bad the other day
<EriC^^> lol
<EriC^^> that was the first time they worked
<DosTuMai> That's why my weight surprises my doctor... baked goods don't last even an ottosecond in my vicinity...
<EriC^^> i didn't make them that much though cause it takes a lot of time and stuff
<EriC^^> i tried lemon tart once it was pretty gross lol
<EriC^^> but somehow edible
<wileee> heh, more powdered sugar please. ;)
<DosTuMai> Use too much lemon? I usually add a little lime and more sugar than the recipe suggests.
<wileee> here is a local bakery, my fave is the bacon maple bar, about once every couple of years. http://voodoodoughnut.com/doughnuts.php
<DosTuMai> The company name gets my vote! =D
<wileee> it's a social cultural scene maaaan
<DosTuMai> Oregon or Taiwan... umm, too far away.
<daftykins> EriC^^: :D
<daftykins> DosTuMai: before work!? someone sounds like a morning person :P
<DosTuMai> Not really, insomniac is closer to the truth. o_o
<daftykins> oh nasty
<daftykins>  < OnceMe> I think my usb is corrupted from some reason but its a fresh win8
<daftykins> ^ even the flash drive wanted to get away :(
<DosTuMai> xD
<daftykins> from the user, not Windows ;)
<daftykins> (just for the record ;) )
<TJ-> Wow! we seem to be going for a record for awkward/misleading support requests
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> it's one of those days
<OerHeks> TJ-, i read that post earlier, but he was gone
<daftykins> i shall henceforth refer to this day as Wobbly Wednesday
<OerHeks> maybe i should have answered, so co-helpers knew
<OerHeks> :-(
<TJ-> It's been a wobbly week
<OerHeks> Yes, werewolf-week
<OerHeks> LoLz
<OerHeks> HAAAAAUUUUUWWWWWWLLL
<DosTuMai> Miaaaauuuuuuuu~~
<TJ-> OerHeks: yeah, me too, I left it because the user was obviously doing things that were bound to break the system, and not even realise it
<DosTuMai> I mean, hawooooo?
<OerHeks> Payday today, shopping tomorrow
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> what are we getting? :)
<DosTuMai> Ubuntu phone? xD
<TJ-> I don't believe it! Are those other channels deliberately feeding people to us!?
<daftykins> it's almost tempting to idle in them to find out
<OerHeks> TJ-, probably that Elementary guy was suggested to upgrade, so he took a chance on us
<OerHeks> or elementary is dead like #ubuntu-nl most of the time.
<TJ-> possibly; that's the thing with a fork/derivate; there isn't the mass of users to provide a round the clock IRC help cover
<TJ-> when you think how many millions use Ubuntu and yet the core helpers is probably no more than 25 ?
<OerHeks> TJ-, that is what i noticed back in 2009 too .. so i thought, i stick in here, maybe i am to any use.
<OerHeks> most issues are solved trough askubuntu and forum i guess
<daftykins> i genuinely think that most of our 'customers' are people who are unwilling to help themselves
<OerHeks> You might think that, hence the level of quality of the question.
<TJ-> sometimes I think the problem is more that they get lost in the wealth of reading they do, and quickly get confused. So many forum/blog/articles with random undated/unversioned instructions with no pedigree or rationale
<TJ-> It takes a LOT of experience to pick the good instructions from the bad
<OerHeks> True.
<daftykins> lol this guy
<daftykins> TJ-: i was going to suggest an fsck next for this one, any better thoughts?
<daftykins> fsck from live session that is
<OerHeks> i am so glad with askubuntu, with lettersize to important answers and the green icon to show a verified answer.
<TJ-> daftykins: to remount r/w the OS will do an fsck in initrd
<TJ-> daftykins: if it is constantly happening I suspect a memory fault, or a process/kernel module failing
<daftykins> so it would've already tried, or?
<daftykins> mmm memtest was gonna be another thought
<TJ-> Yes, it should have, else it wouldn't be possible to fully boot
<daftykins> ah ok
<OerHeks> Xenial Xerus
<OerHeks> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1479
<TJ-> what a load of pure tosh!
<daftykins> :S
<OerHeks> I like it.
<OerHeks> This werewolf thing is my most un-favorite one, i guess.
<OerHeks> Yes, i noticed nvidia-prime                                  0.6.2linuxmint1  too , from a mint ppa
<EriC^^> xenial xerus
<EriC^^> srsly?
<TJ-> How is it even supposed to be pronounced?
<TJ-> I'm just going to nickname it Little Porno
<daftykins> maybe we should say 'the release we can't pronounce' -> TRWCP
<EriC^^> i wonder what it means
<EriC^^> this is a xerus http://imgc.allpostersimages.com/images/P-473-488-90/40/4050/38ALF00Z/posters/james-hager-cape-ground-squirrel-xerus-inauris-grooming-kgalagadi-transfrontier-park-south-africa.jpg
<EriC^^> xenial means Hospitable, especially to visiting strangers or foreigners. friendly.
<TJ-> That's Genial surely?
<EriC^^> nope, https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/xenial
<EriC^^> it's pronounced ze-nial
<TJ-> and everyone familiar with Xen hypervisor will pronounce it XN-E-AL not ZeeeKneeAl
<Bashing-om> Where I come from that is pronounced "dinner" .
<EriC^^> lol
<daftykins> :D
<TJ-> Looks more like a rodent to me
<TJ-> We shoot them
<EriC^^> it's a squirrel
<TJ-> So, lets call it Squirrel Dinner
<daftykins> mmm, ubuntu squirrel dinner
<EriC^^> lol
<TJ-> Bets on how many "how to pronounce XX" guides appear?
<TJ-> That's a USD, not a USB :)
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> put your USD on a USB
<TJ-> as long as its an XX USB :p
<TJ-> I prefer the porno angle; more tongue-in-cheek :D
<TJ-> "Mark Shuttleworth, the Ubuntu XX poster boy" :)
<daftykins> wily's already bad enough, i'm sure someone had a factoid about 'willy'
<OerHeks> willy wonka
<TJ-> Willy was a watchdog, sitting in the grass, along came a snake and bit him on the ... ask no questions tell no lies, I saw a beggar-man doing up his... flies are a nuscence, bugs are even worse, and that is the end of my clean... verse!
<TJ-> wow! major bug in do-release-upgrade just fixed in time for Wily release
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> what did it do?
<TJ-> A bug I worked on/traced a few weeks ago where packages failed during install --configure (postinst script) stage with a particular permutation of systemd/upstart/sysv-init scripts, turns out it also affected do-r-u because it shipped a private copy of invoke-rc.d that had no awareness of systemd, so many package upgrades were failing with error 100
<daftykins> oh wow, private copy?
<TJ-> yeah, a copy of the script included manually ages ago, rather than pulling in the latest
<daftykins> i'm trying to imagine how annoyed jog1 would be if he/she came back with a clean install that still had issues ;)
<TJ-> it's going to need a 0-day SRU and a change to the meta-release config on the servers to get the fix out in time to not break the install images
<TJ-> I'm sure the jog1 issue is the API mismatch
<daftykins> we really have had a day of the other-distros
<daftykins> maybe i should pop into #debian with a question sometime soon... :)
<OerHeks> No, a mint ppa, i googled that issue. mint users suffer the same.
<TJ-> They won't let me in!
<daftykins> are you banned? :o
<TJ-> The chap with the mismatched gcc libs finally got sorted out in ##linux; and told not to mix .debs :)
<OerHeks> he comes in as root
<EriC^^> ~root is banned? :o
<OerHeks> ~root@2a02:bla bla bla
<TJ-> No... they auto-block any user with a hostmask that matches *!root*@*
<daftykins> ah
<EriC^^> that's stupid
<TJ-> Yup
<TJ-> Well, there loss! I used to help out in that channel a lot
<TJ-> s/there/their/
<EriC^^> that's silly, how should somebody be warned not to use root if he's a newbie
<OerHeks> I used to hang there, to see users switch from #debian to #ubuntu with the same issue but then provoking ubuntu
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> i remember you used to warn us
<OerHeks> or the way around, that is also funny
<TJ-> The thing is, it *isn't* even root, because most have the ~root which means it hasn't been confirmed by an identd, and even if it were, where's the proof the identd isn't using a mapping, and EVEN THEN... where's the proof 'root' == UID 0 ?
<OerHeks> TJ-, admit, you like to tease
<TJ-> Hell yes! I am challenging incorrect misconceptions and assumptions.
<TJ-> I log-in as root... but NOT as UID 0
<OerHeks> I like that too .. "oerheks" assumes i am a woman :-D
<OerHeks> but wikipedia is right.
<daftykins> so another username is the actual root user, your root is another non-root user? XD
<daftykins> s/another/a/
<TJ-> Yes, UID 0 has a randomly generated username
<TJ-> UID 1000 maps to 'root' and 'tj' :)
<daftykins> o0
<daftykins> is it truly so bad to warn users that come in as root@ in #ubuntu though, given it's more a new user ground?
<TJ-> no worries warning them; but pre-banning entry, especially to Debian, supposed a fully community oriented distro?
<daftykins> oh that case is definitely too far
<TJ-> Altering the username of UID is actually a good wau of smoking out some bad code that relies on username not UID
<TJ-> s/of UID is/of UID 0 is/
<daftykins> oh dear the "when's it out?" is beginning :(
<TJ-> it has been out for ages :D
<OerHeks> is it out ?
<OerHeks> :-D
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-10-22
<Ben64> :( tj left
<daftykins> i reckon his Huskies smuggled him away from the PC :>
<Ben64> i had another java question for him
<Ben64> stupid java and its signed everythings
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-16-04-lts-to-be-called-xenial-xerus-495026.shtml
<lotuspsychje> yessss
<lotuspsychje> XX is born
<lotuspsychje> !xenial
<ubot5> Ubuntu 16.04 (Xenial Xerus) will be the 24th release of Ubuntu. Announcement at http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1479 - Discussion in #ubuntu+1
<lotuspsychje> travnewmatic: morning
<bohemiandan81> greetings everybody
<bohemiandan81> new here
<lotuspsychje> hi there
<bohemiandan81> hi lotus
<lotuspsychje> wich ubuntu version are you on bohemiandan81
<bohemiandan81> I am on a fairly fresh version of ubuntu
<bohemiandan81> i will have to check the version
<lotuspsychje> bohemiandan81: lsb_release -a from terminal
<bohemiandan81> 14.04 i believe
<lotuspsychje> great
<lotuspsychje> bohemiandan81: welcome to the community
<bohemiandan81> thank you. happy to be here
<lotuspsychje> bohemiandan81: if you need anything or have questions, welcome to ask them in #ubuntu
<bohemiandan81> i am definitely a noob at this, but I will be going to school for net security and would like to have a firm knowledge of linux before i start classes
<lotuspsychje> !manual | bohemiandan81 start here :p
<ubot5> bohemiandan81 start here :p: The Ubuntu Manual will help you become familiar with everyday tasks such as surfing the web, listening to music and scanning documents. With an emphasis on easy to follow instructions, it is suitable for all levels of experience. http://ubuntu-manual.org/
<bohemiandan81> thank you. can I ask some more questions?
<lotuspsychje> sure mate
<bohemiandan81> once I have a grasp on the usage of linux, what would you recommend i focus on next in terms of useful skills for networking?
<lotuspsychje> bohemiandan81: it all depends what you wanna do mate
<lotuspsychje> bohemiandan81: many erea's to explore
<lotuspsychje> area
<bohemiandan81> that makes sense
<bohemiandan81> I would like to be in network security
<lotuspsychje> bohemiandan81: the ##networking guys are specialist for this..
<lotuspsychje> !security | bohemiandan81 or read here also
<ubot5> bohemiandan81 or read here also: Security Updates are dealt with here:  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Security - See also !root, !firewall and !server
<bohemiandan81> excellent, thank you.
<lotuspsychje> bohemiandan81: there is also ubuntu server, if you interested in the networking part
<lotuspsychje> bohemiandan81: #ubuntu-server
<lotuspsychje> bohemiandan81: join a few channels, idle and make up your mind where to go :p
<bohemiandan81> that sounds like a fair plan to pursue
<bohemiandan81> thank you for your assistance, i appreciate it.
<lotuspsychje> no sweat mate
<lotuspsychje> depo: welcome
<bohemiandan81> are there any etiquette rules in these rooms or is it just generally "don't be a turd"?
<lotuspsychje> !rules
<ubot5> The guidelines for using the Ubuntu channels can be found here: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines
<bohemiandan81> thanks again
<lotuspsychje> no prob mate, welcome to the ubuntu community
<lotuspsychje> bohemiandan81: this channel here, is more for ubuntu discussions
<lotuspsychje> bohemiandan81: ass #ubuntu-offtopic is for more far away chitchat
<bohemiandan81> okay. gotcha. i was recommended here by the people at #ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> yeah lol that was me
<bohemiandan81> nice. well, at present im not sure what all to ask, so I will start by reading the manual, then I will proceed to lurk a bit and get a feel for where I would like to focus.
<bohemiandan81> and while Im here I will be nice, helpful when I can be, respectful always, and not make a nuisance of myself in general.
<lotuspsychje> bohemiandan81: if you like networking and security, there's alot to learn and handy packages out there
<lotuspsychje> bohemiandan81: thats a great attitude
<bohemiandan81> thanks. it seems to just be a great way to be when around people.
<bohemiandan81> it's not as easy irl but im working on it.
<bohemiandan81> where would i find those aforementioned packages, so that I can make a note of it and do some research?
<lotuspsychje> bohemiandan81: i would start first wich way to go, what will you been doing
<lotuspsychje> bohemiandan81: when knowing, you will come to the right packages
<bohemiandan81> that also makes a lot of sense. I will stick with my plan then. Read, lurk, interact when ready. lol
<lotuspsychje> bohemiandan81: example: you want an own network with ubuntu-server and start tighten security=get network security tools
<bohemiandan81> that would be cool.
<depo> hello, is there any official page or smth "time left until 15.10" ?
<lotuspsychje> !wily | depo
<ubot5> depo: Ubuntu 15.10 (Wily Werewolf) will be the 23rd release of Ubuntu. Discussion in #ubuntu+1
<lotuspsychje> !releases | depo
<ubot5> depo: Ubuntu releases a new version every 6 months. Each version is supported for 9 months to 5 years. More info at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases & http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases
<lotuspsychje> depo: normally it will be during the day of 23
<bohemiandan81> hey lotus, thank you for your time and attention tonight. Im gonna get started on the reading right now.
<depo> because i'am in europe, its already 22 :)
<lotuspsychje> bohemiandan81: good luck!
<bohemiandan81> most of my free time is around this time so I am sure I will see you again.
<depo> thanks for the help :)
<bohemiandan81> thank you, im sure Im gonna need a bit of luck before this adventure is through. lol
<bohemiandan81> have a good night.
<lotuspsychje> bohemiandan81: this adventure never ends :p
<bohemiandan81> whew, i was afraid of what I would be doing if it ever did end.
<lotuspsychje> bohemiandan81: ive been on ubuntu for years and still learning every day
<bohemiandan81> i like that.
<bohemiandan81> do i need to announce afk as a courtesy when i go?
<lotuspsychje> bohemiandan81: better just idle and not too much advertising around
<bohemiandan81> gotcha. see you soon, im sure. night.
<lotuspsychje> nite nite
<lotuspsychje> Daekdroom: afrernoon
<Daekdroom> morning
<lotuspsychje> new lts is born
<lotuspsychje> !xenial
<ubot5> Ubuntu 16.04 (Xenial Xerus) will be the 24th release of Ubuntu. Announcement at http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1479 - Discussion in #ubuntu+1
<Daekdroom> I'm aware.
<lotuspsychje> hi eric
<EriC^^> hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: did you see new lts name
<EriC^^> haha yeah
<lotuspsychje> :p
<EriC^^> :D
<lotuspsychje> cfhowletttttt!!!!
<cfhowlett> spartaaaaaa!!!!!!
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> xeniallllllll
<lotuspsychje> !xenial | cfhowlett
<ubot5> cfhowlett: Ubuntu 16.04 (Xenial Xerus) will be the 24th release of Ubuntu. Announcement at http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1479 - Discussion in #ubuntu+1
<Ben64> not getting alpha for 2 months probably
<cfhowlett> xenial???!!!! seriously???
<cfhowlett> I is disappointed
<Ben64> what did you expect
<lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: what did you wanted ?
<Ben64> xylophonesque?
<lotuspsychje> looool
<cfhowlett> and what the hell is a xerus
<lotuspsychje> a groundhog from africa something
<Ben64> http://grammar.yourdictionary.com/parts-of-speech/adjectives/adjectives-that-start-with-x.html
<Ben64> which one would you have picked
<lotuspsychje> we have been discussing this before Ben64 was pretty good laugh :p
<lotuspsychje> ioriaaaaaaa
<ioria> lotuspsychjeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee,
<lotuspsychje> lol
<ioria> i wrote an instant message app ubu-win ....
<lotuspsychje> lol?
<ioria> in python
<lotuspsychje> what does it do?
<ioria> on win you have to install python and python gtk
<ioria> it send short message
<ioria> like "hello... have you done ?"
<lotuspsychje> to where ioria
<ioria> to your friend or collegue
<ioria> on a lan
<lotuspsychje> cool
<ioria> once you could use smbclient ... and net send on win xp ...
<ioria> now win 7 is different
<EriC^^> i taught my friend the net send thing on windows once in uni
<EriC^^> he went and sent it system wide to every body on campus
<EriC^^> lol, jackass
<ioria> lolllllllllllllllll
<EriC^^> they came and told him wtf and he got into some trouble, he thought he was being funny or something
<ioria> yeah
<EriC^^> he was pretty funny in a sense though
<EriC^^> he stole a telescope from uni and put it on his balcony
<EriC^^> lol, he was a physics major
<EriC^^> haha, he was like come over i want to show you mars or something
<EriC^^> lol
<ioria> "a beautiful mind"...
<ioria> there is water on mars....
<EriC^^> yeah i read once there's like 10,000 planets where there should be water
<EriC^^> they found water on mars though? for sure i mean?
<ioria> pity... but maybe there is beer
<lotuspsychje> lol
<EriC^^> lol
<ioria> stella artois, exactly
<cfhowlett> martian suds; the brew for when you're a long LONG way from home.
<ioria> ^,,^
<lotuspsychje> belgian beer is the best indeed
<HackerII> pilsner
<ioria> irish rocks, although
<ioria> pilsner... interesting
<HackerII> its smooth and will like tennessee moonshine, catch you with your pants down
<ioria> ^_^
<cfhowlett> ewwwwwwwwwwww
<lotuspsychje> http://releases.ubuntu.com/15.10/
<lotuspsychje> are these official or daily builds?
<ioria> seems official....
<lotuspsychje> tnx to google
<HackerII> UbuCon
<HackerII> Canonical Revives the Ubuntu Developer Summit Event, Calls it UbuCon Summit
<cfhowlett> !
<cfhowlett> really?  link?
<lotuspsychje> yeah readed that on softpedia
<HackerII> http://lxer.com/module/newswire/ext_link.php?rid=220999
 * cfhowlett English Teacher senses tingling ..."readed"?  
<ioria> read
<lotuspsychje> !party
<ubot5> Please remember that #ubuntu, #kubuntu, #xubuntu, #edubuntu, and #lubuntu are support channels. To countdown to !Vivid release and then party once it happens, join #ubuntu-release-party - For in-person parties, see http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/global/3075/
<lotuspsychje> for those who wanna pre-party
<ioria> Vivid ?
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> seems like someone needs to update trigger
<lotuspsychje> lemme report to ops
<ioria> werewolf is coming to turn you
<lotuspsychje> grrrrrr
<ioria> "An Ubuntu Werewolf in London"
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> bbl guys
<lotuspsychje> have a goog wily release!
<lotuspsychje> good evening guys
<daftykins> hallo \o how do?
<lotuspsychje> hey daftykins :p
<lotuspsychje> fine tnx mate
<daftykins> any fun customers out there in the real world of late?
<lotuspsychje> bashing-om said you had fun recently with some user?
<daftykins> hmm, there are so many i can't think of just one :)
<TJ-> It's the aliens :)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<daftykins> "In this test, the (Samsung) 950 Proâs sequential read and write speeds actually exceed Samsungâs claims: the 256GB model peaked at 2299MB/sec sequential read and 944MB/sec write; the 512GB model hit 2592MB/sec read and 1525MB/sec write."
<lotuspsychje> oO
<daftykins> ah, PCI-Express direct attached SSDs with the NVMe protocol :>
<lotuspsychje> so a sata version of 950 wont be possible right only nvm?
<daftykins> there wouldn't be any point, SATA has been rubbish for ages :)
<daftykins> if you look at any SSD benchmark sites, pretty much every single recently released one now just groups together at the maximum SATA 6Gbps speeds
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: so you think future pc's will ditch sata?
<daftykins> no, they already have :D
<lotuspsychje> lol
<daftykins> i did a build over a year ago now where there's a nice M.2 slot directly beneath the CPU socket on a cheap i3 haswell build
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: but i will have manu customers with 'older' pc's to upgrade to ubuntu + ssd +sata
<daftykins> the boot speeds are just crazy
<daftykins> well the 850s will stay around :)
<lotuspsychje> yeah and 10 years warranty
<daftykins> i don't think that'll matter much, 3D NAND is so much more tolerant
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: so you suggest i buy barebones with M.2 in the future
<daftykins> oh for the love of Tux, PanV is back
<lotuspsychje> +query ubottu
<daftykins> lotuspsychje: yep, at least when performance is in the criteria
<lotuspsychje> ok tnx for the hint daftykins
<daftykins> no problemo :)
<daftykins> you might want to read up on M.2, as not every socket was born equal
<daftykins> they all have different forms =|
<OerHeks> m2 is the future indeed, avoiding the SSD hog.
<daftykins> http://arstechnica.co.uk/gadgets/2015/02/understanding-m-2-the-interface-that-will-speed-up-your-next-ssd/
<lotuspsychje> does all m.2 have that nvm?
<OerHeks> especially MLC multilevel cel i understand
<daftykins> NVMe is protocol level so it'd be implemented by the systems EFI
<lotuspsychje> ok
<lotuspsychje> lemme read that brb
<daftykins> hmm these reviews seem to state there are still plenty of power management bugs to work out
<ioria> upgrading my external disk to wolfy ....
<lotuspsychje> good evening wileee
<wileee> morning
<lotuspsychje> wileee: wily is out and xenial is born :p
<daftykins> be nice once February is here and 15.04 is dead, then it's back to just 3 releases
<lotuspsychje> precise dies also soon right
<ioria> flash player is really having some big problems.... i keep it just to see how many  damages can do ....
<lotuspsychje> ioria: how do you test
<ioria> watching my firefox page graying out
<ioria> irresponsive ... some minutes ....
<lotuspsychje> ioria: system76 ditched flash player on their machines
<ioria> sometimes irrecoverable
<ioria> yeah
<ioria> especially when the page has that flash-advertising window
<lotuspsychje> ioria: i wonder if system76 still uses firefox then?
<lotuspsychje> ive also read some distro uses a tuned firefox with the peperflash from chromium
<ioria> well, there are wrappers for firefox and derivatives
<lotuspsychje> addons?
<ioria> no,    ppa  but they don't work very well, like Fresh Player
<ioria> they use pepper
<ioria> libpepflashplugin.... works only on youtube and few sites
<lotuspsychje> !info freshplayerplugin
<ubot5> Package freshplayerplugin does not exist in vivid
<lotuspsychje> ppa indeed
<ioria> basically they take pepper from chrome and adapt it for firefox ...
<lotuspsychje> would be nice to have something like that in repos
<lotuspsychje> and take flashplugin out of restricted-extras
<ioria> yep... still testing
<lotuspsychje> maybe in xenial..who knows
<ioria> http://www.webupd8.org/2015/01/fresh-player-plugin-sees-new-release.html
<lotuspsychje> ioria: ive also read canonical is thinking of default browser on future versions
<lotuspsychje> ioria: you know wich plugin webbrowser-app uses?
<lotuspsychje> flash or pepper
<ioria> really ? interesting .... no, sorry
<ioria> there is also adobe-flashplugin from Canonical Partner... you have to enable the repo
<daftykins> i think Google made a mistake pushing pepperflash, it's just allowing it to stay around longer
<daftykins> websites should start being shamed for having non-HTML5 players
<lotuspsychje> yeah very vulnarable
<ioria> html5 is very interesting ....
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/xexf5e5n0879ok8/IMG_20151022_171525.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> i just decided to virtualise Apples latest and greatest ;)
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: looks like docky :p
<daftykins> *shrug*
<lotuspsychje> w10 on the left?
<ioria> nice
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> don't worry the KiTTY session is to an ubuntu server ;)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> microsoft appologized for pushing w10 unchosen updates :p
<ioria> wow ... the 4. kernel ...
<ioria> cpu pentium t4500, usb drive - complete upgrade , 28  minutes
<lotuspsychje> ioria: nice1
<ioria> let's see ... now
<lotuspsychje> ioria: 4.2 OR 4.3 NOW?
<lotuspsychje> oops
<ioria> give me a sec ....
<lotuspsychje> sure
<ioria> 4.2.0-16-generic
<lotuspsychje> ok tnx ioria
<ioria> np
<ioria> ubottu is already working for wily...
<daftykins> mmhmm
<lotuspsychje> !info rar
<ubot5> rar (source: rar): Archiver for .rar files. In component multiverse, is optional. Version 2:5.2.1b2-1 (vivid), package size 547 kB, installed size 1486 kB (Only available for i386; amd64)
<ioria> !info rar wily
<ubot5> rar (source: rar): Archiver for .rar files. In component multiverse, is optional. Version 2:5.3.b2-1 (wily), package size 546 kB, installed size 1451 kB (Only available for i386; amd64)
<daftykins> hmm so it's not become the default yet
<daftykins> well, different bot
<ioria> lotuspsychje, test ubottu in pm
<lotuspsychje> ioria: yep shows docky for wily now
<ioria> weird
<lotuspsychje> ioria: maybe ubottu needs a restart or something first
<ioria> yep
<lotuspsychje> ioria: webbrower-app gets detected as chromium 35 and adobe flash doesnt get detected
<lotuspsychje> playing youtubes flawless
<ioria> !info chromium-browser wily
<ubot5> chromium-browser (source: chromium-browser): Chromium web browser, open-source version of Chrome. In component universe, is optional. Version 45.0.2454.101-0ubuntu1.1201 (wily), package size 53636 kB, installed size 197682 kB
<lotuspsychje> !info webbrower-app
<ubot5> Package webbrower-app does not exist in vivid
<lotuspsychje> !info webbrowser-app
<ubot5> webbrowser-app (source: webbrowser-app): Ubuntu web browser. In component main, is optional. Version 0.23+15.04.20150416-0ubuntu1 (vivid), package size 709 kB, installed size 1572 kB
<lotuspsychje> i used a browser/flash detect website
<ioria> !info  webbrowser-app wily
<ubot5> webbrowser-app (source: webbrowser-app): Ubuntu web browser. In component main, is optional. Version 0.23+15.10.20150929-0ubuntu1 (wily), package size 721 kB, installed size 1928 kB
<ioria> for adobe you have to enable the repo
<lotuspsychje> yeah i dont want adobe
<lotuspsychje> just wanted to test whats default in webbrowser-app
<lotuspsychje> trying to find peperflash detectors online now
<lotuspsychje> hi there Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: o/ Hey ! .. Release day .. how much of a pounding are we taking ?
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: 15.10 issues are very calm, the community very active discussing in channels
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: and !xenial is born :p
<ioria> oh... really ?
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje:  Good deal .. good news, I was and am expeccting a pounding for FGLRX  in 15.10 // NOT ! .
<lotuspsychje> ioria: born as in codename :p
<lotuspsychje> !xenial
<ubot5> Ubuntu 16.04 (Xenial Xerus) will be the 24th release of Ubuntu. Announcement at http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1479 - Discussion in #ubuntu+1
<TJ-> Not just as XX; toolchain upload tonight
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: but we have to wait to join #ubuntu+1 some more time right?
<TJ-> Well, it's development so -devel of course :)
<lotuspsychje> kk
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: #ubuntu-release is spamming xenial stuff all over :p
<TJ-> +1 is for when the alpha/beta ISO releases go out really
<lotuspsychje> ah right
<TJ-> I wonder why? Not like that channel would get lots of drive-by drop-ins; must annoy the regulars
<lotuspsychje> 161 users and active atm
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/ReleaseSchedule
<lotuspsychje> its gonna be a happy newyear
<HackerII> heh, lets hope it dont collapse beforehand
<lotuspsychje> ubuntu or the world :p
<HackerII> woohoo
 * HackerII is waiting for 16.04
<lotuspsychje> december 31 and lets do some heavy bug hunting :p
<lotuspsychje> then my next goal in life will be converting all machines in the worl to xenial
<lotuspsychje> and beat gill bates
<HackerII> we have enough bugs in the whitehouse, we need a professional terminex
<HackerII> ya
<HackerII> beat bill
<lotuspsychje> lol
<HackerII> he and hillary should get a room together
<ioria> http://shirtoid.com/52849/bug-hunters/
<lotuspsychje> lolz
<TJ-> Looks like kubuntu is going to peter out now, which is a shame
<lotuspsychje> howso?
<TJ-> Jonathan Riddell has stepped down as release manager. You recall the bust-up with Canonical earlier in the year, well he's had enough
<TJ-> He's 1 of only 2 majorly competent packaging devs for KDE/Kubuntu. The others are well-meaning amateurs but haven't yet built up the skill set to fill his place.
<HackerII> i can do it
<HackerII> in my sleep
<HackerII> el oh el
<lotuspsychje> lol
<HackerII> i have special tech meds
<HackerII> circuital, resisterol, and cputol
<lotuspsychje> rohipnol i know...
<daftykins> and so the masses are flooding in
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: yep, lucky us to solve :p
<lotuspsychje> hi philipballew
<daftykins> o/
<philipballew> lotuspsychje, hello. What are you up to?
<daftykins> we're battling the hordes of 15.10 upgraders.
<lotuspsychje> philipballew: wily is out and !xenial is born
<lotuspsychje> plenty to do :p
<philipballew> lotuspsychje, I ungraded last week for all my machines.
<lotuspsychje> nice
<philipballew> Tonight I am gonna hit askubuntu and try to answer as many questions as I can.
<philipballew> if I finish that, then the forms
<lotuspsychje> philipballew: didnt knew you also do support
<philipballew> lotuspsychje, I do everything I can for Ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> nice1
<philipballew> im not as skilled as some, but I do all that I can
<philipballew> lotuspsychje, where in the world are you now?
<lotuspsychje> philipballew: Bashing-om will be your mate then, he also support the ubuntuforums
<daftykins> i tried a few askubuntu ones once, but it's annoying not having realtime info
<lotuspsychje> philipballew: .be @ 20h23
<daftykins> plus you wonder if they go off and try things before they get to your reply ;)
<philipballew> daftykins, its a mind of its own for sure
<philipballew> its a good way if you already know the answer
<lotuspsychje> i like askbuntu answers as they get voted
<daftykins> yay fixed my first 15.10 issue
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: wich would that be?
<daftykins> guy with a Dell, synaptics touchpad didn't work despite this Xorg log: http://paste.ubuntu.com/12896069/
<philipballew> I once met a guy at starbcks who bought me coffee so I could install missing drivers on his laptop
<daftykins> so i found and suggested: http://askubuntu.com/questions/623598/dell-inspiron-7347-inactive-cursor-with-my-touchpad-on-ubuntu-14-04
<daftykins> philipballew: haha :D *buntu?
<philipballew> daftykins, totally was!
<lotuspsychje> ah yess, we seen this on 15.04 too quiet splash i8042.nopnp
<daftykins> maybe i'll write a blog post about it so folks find results online
<lotuspsychje> you have a blogger daftykins ?
<philipballew> I could write a blog post about daftykins writing a blog post.
<daftykins> well, i haven't written anything since like 2 years ago and i just run it from home so it's not very reliable (dynamic IP)
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> yay lets all blog circularly
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> would be nice to log all solved issues + what solved it
<daftykins> trouble is it all becomes obsolete so fast
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: ^ now we talking - build a data base !
<daftykins> weeding out the no longer relevant posts would be more work than keeping the already outdated wiki and help pages on ubuntu.com current
<lotuspsychje> true
<daftykins> that guide i linked uses "sudo -H gedit /file" is that really a safe way instead of gksu/gksudo ?
<daftykins> i checked the manpage and see -H is homepath changing
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: wb eric!
<EriC^^> thanks lotuspsychje
<EriC^^> did you try 15.10 yet?
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: im sticking to lts mate :p so no
<EriC^^> me too, just for a vm
<daftykins> http://www.techblo.gg/?p=301
<daftykins> simples
<EriC^^> ( basically just for the wallpapers and see how it feels like :D )
<EriC^^> i'm downloading now
<lotuspsychje> nice1 daftykins
<daftykins> hmm both my xbox and last.fm widgets are broken
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: ill grab xenial alpha at december 31
<EriC^^> nice writeup daftykins
<daftykins> hehe thanks, i mostly just copied the result on askubuntu.com and labelled it as 15.10 though - so any new users googling can find it :)
<EriC^^> why dec 31?
<EriC^^> oh ok
<EriC^^> the alpha
<EriC^^> i hope the wallpapers are nice
<EriC^^> lol
<EriC^^> it's almost done
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: how's the shop coming together mate?
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: were trying to find a proper house to buy first
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: it needs a room for home shop where i will place the showroom :p
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: daftykins and OerHeks suggested me M.2 machines for the future :p
<EriC^^> cool, what's M.2 machines?
<OerHeks> sure, apple got a version that has the highest speeds
<OerHeks> m2 flashmemory
<OerHeks> the folow up on ssd sata
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: <daftykins> http://arstechnica.co.uk/gadgets/2015/02/understanding-m-2-the-interface-that-will-speed-up-your-next-ssd/
<daftykins> "new" form factor SSDs that are PCIe 4x native with NVMe instead of AHCI :)
<lotuspsychje> so i will be hunting m.2 barebones
<OerHeks> next step will be no difference between ram and storage
<EriC^^> seems very cool
<EriC^^> when my current hdd explodes i'll get a ssd i guess
<EriC^^> never used one before
<lotuspsychje> the image i have in mind is ubuntu phone = ubuntu tablet = ubuntu netbook = ubuntu multimedia laptop = ubuntu home desktop = ubuntu gaming desktop
<lotuspsychje> all ssd powered and lts + ubuntu touch
<OerHeks> https://azerty.nl/8-5743-794909/addonics-m2-pcie-ssd-adapter.html + https://azerty.nl/8-5931-717161/kingston-ssdnow-solid-state-.html
<daftykins> no point using adapters really, if your BIOS/EFI can't boot PCIe devices with NVMe, you're knackered
<daftykins> ok for solely-storage of course
<lotuspsychje> its so hard to find barebones, not sure where to get them
<OerHeks> but this one is not 600 mbit, but 2150 mbit https://azerty.nl/0-5931-820994/samsung-sm951-series-ssd-solid-state-drive-256-gb-intern-m-2-2280-pci-express-x4-ahci-bulk.html
<daftykins> laptops or say, mini ITX things?
<OerHeks> creul
<daftykins> yeah SM951 is the older one
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: i will be needing them all
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: maybe ill do those mini for home desktops
<daftykins> i think the Intel NUCs come with M.2 as standard
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: yeah, but we had some ubuntu issues on those nucs also on users
<lotuspsychje> remember a few
<daftykins> mmm
<OerHeks> seeding ratio 1.5 in 4 hrs now
<daftykins> :)
<OerHeks> x 6 isos
<lotuspsychje> :p
<daftykins> how big is the 64-bit wily desktop image up to now?
<OerHeks> 1,18 gb
<EriC^^> it's 1.1gb
<EriC^^> well 1.0gib it says here
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/kubuntu-15-10-launches-with-the-most-advanced-plasma-desktop-495090.shtml
<daftykins> ouch
<OerHeks> 2248 x 512kb
<daftykins> soon a 2GB flashd rive won't cut it ;)
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2015/10/10-things-to-do-after-installing-ubuntu-15-10
<OerHeks> ubuntustudio 2.3GiB
<OerHeks> but that one i would expect 3.9 gb
<lotuspsychje> wow big
<daftykins> oh dear, is omgubuntu suggesting people trash their lovely installations with PPAs from the word go again?
 * daftykins glances
<OerHeks> oh, fonts and themes i presume?
<lotuspsychje> any speed improvements to dash on 15.10?
<OerHeks> I don't know, still on 15.04
 * daftykins pats his server VM
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2015/10/ubuntu-15-10-download-review-new-features
<lotuspsychje> steam controller added, nice
<lotuspsychje> !info telegram
<ubot5> Package telegram does not exist in vivid
<lotuspsychje> !info telegram wily
<ubot5> Package telegram does not exist in wily
<lotuspsychje> must be the telegram desktop they show https://insights.ubuntu.com/2015/10/22/whats-new-in-ubuntu-15-10-desktop-and-devices/
<OerHeks> maybe it is under social accounts pre programmed
<lotuspsychje> ah could be OerHeks
<EriC^^> the new prompt is colored
<EriC^^> wallpapers suck
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: can you check the social accounts for telegram please?
<EriC^^> doesn't seem to have telegram
<lotuspsychje> ok tnx
<EriC^^> you mean the settings > online accounts? facebook yahoo google etc?
<lotuspsychje> yep
<lotuspsychje> any new ones?
<EriC^^> no they're actually less
<lotuspsychje> ok
<lotuspsychje> i wonder why they didnt add telegram to official repos yet
<lotuspsychje> such a nice package
<lotuspsychje> you can try it from here for desktop: https://desktop.telegram.org/
<OerHeks> hmm https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ntp = ntp (1:4.2.6.p5+dfsg-3ubuntu8) and http://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Main/SecurityNotice#Recent_Vulnerabilities  says it is fixed in ntp-4.2.8p4
<lotuspsychje> seems like they add a telegram ppa here: http://www.tecmint.com/things-to-do-after-fresh-installation-of-ubuntu-15-10-desktop/2/
<lotuspsychje> nite nite all
<Ben64> those "x things to do after installing ubuntu" are dumb
<Ben64> because everyone is the same and wants the same things, right?
<OerHeks> 1000 steps to keep you buzy with ubuntu 15.10 until next release
<OerHeks> ( incl. eat & drink, sleep, walk instructions )
<daftykins> Ben64: agreed, plus it treats a new OS like a toy
<OerHeks> wow my compliments for the makers of this demo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoeCcCQuJrM
<daftykins> quite professional indeed
<wileee> like hypnotic man
<OerHeks> those loops can easily be made with ubuntu studio
<OerHeks> (music)
<OerHeks> ratio 2.2-2.9 x 6 isos in 6 hrs
<OerHeks> faster!
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-10-23
<Ben64> so does 15.10 do kernel updates without restarting yet
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/watch-ubuntu-convergence-teaser-running-gimp-on-a-nexus-7-tablet-495119.shtml
<lotuspsychje> i like new layout & strategy http://www.ubuntu.com/
<lordievader> Good morning.
<cupofjoecoder2> #msg alis ruby
<cupofjoecoder2> #msg alis list ruby
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
<cfhowlett> hey^3 lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey cfhowlett :p
<lotuspsychje> all ok?
<cfhowlett> no complaints, mate.  just sittin here, sippin tea and waitin for XX
<cfhowlett> OMG do you have any idea how many ubuntu + XX complaints we're going to get
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> im real curious about it aswell
<cfhowlett> I can hear the screeching now "Ubuntu = porn!!"
<lotuspsychje> lolz
<lotuspsychje> i like the new layout and strategy page: http://www.ubuntu.com/
<lotuspsychje> ubuntu on all platforms
<lotuspsychje> just like i have in mind for my shop
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: good afternoon
<OerHeks> Hi lotus
<lotuspsychje> afternoon travnewmatic and Daekdroom
<EriC^^> afternoon lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> heya EriC^^ :p
<EriC^^> :D
<lotuspsychje> the wily rush is pretty stable
<lotuspsychje> for now..
<EriC^^> yeah
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: i like the ubuntu on all of your things icons: http://www.ubuntu.com/
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: a bit same idea for my shop
<EriC^^> yeah pretty cool
 * lotuspsychje throws a xenial xerus into johnny_linux's neck
 * johnny_linux eats it and asks 4 more
<lotuspsychje> lol
<OerHeks> y, lotuspsychje, y?
<lotuspsychje> <-_->
<johnny_linux> the toothless terminator ?
<johnny_linux> poor arnie
<lotuspsychje> lol
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: kwerfguuto is Italian I think; and English isn't their best language
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> better feed him to the dogs :p
<lotuspsychje> the huskies are hungry
<lotuspsychje> bbl city walk
<daftykins> did anyone ever try that guys claim the other day, a while back, that "cp file.iso /dev/sdX" works in place of dd?
<OerHeks> only if you sync after that ?
<OerHeks> http://superuser.com/questions/620877/cp-command-to-make-bootable-iso-image-usb
<daftykins> hmm i might test this
<TJ-> Sure that will work, it's the same basic process
<daftykins> someone should write a 'dd' clone that shows progress as it runs :)
<TJ-> ddrescue?
<daftykins> does it? i figured that was more tailored toward data recovery
<OerHeks> with pv it shows
<OerHeks> dd if=/dev/urandom | pv | dd of=/dev/null
<OerHeks> Output
<OerHeks> 1,74MB 0:00:09 [ 198kB/s] [      <=>                               ]
<daftykins> o rly
<OerHeks> install pv first
<daftykins> hmm not so much something to instruct a new user through, then
<OerHeks> else ddrescue like TJ says, it has those scripts in it
<daftykins> !info ddrescue trusty
<ubot5> Package ddrescue does not exist in trusty
<TJ-> yeah, or you can do something like "dd xxxx & watch -n 10 kill -USR1 $(pgrep dd)"
<daftykins> mm, all pretty messy
<TJ-> !info gddrescue (GNU....)
<ubot5> '(GNU....)' is not a valid distribution: kubuntu-backports, kubuntu-experimental, kubuntu-updates, partner, precise, precise-backports, precise-proposed, stable, testing, trusty, trusty-backports, trusty-proposed, unstable, utopic, utopic-backports, utopic-proposed, vivid, vivid-backports, vivid-proposed, wily, wily-backports, wily-proposed
<TJ-> !info gddrescue
<ubot5> gddrescue (source: gddrescue): GNU data recovery tool. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.19-1 (vivid), package size 105 kB, installed size 373 kB
<OerHeks> !info pv
<ubot5> pv (source: pv): Shell pipeline element to meter data passing through. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.5.7-2 (vivid), package size 46 kB, installed size 169 kB
<daftykins> i think i'm out of my depth on this Nectar guy's query, i don't see why setting the displays with the 'monitor' settings program wouldn't remain after restart - unless a config file in ~/.gonf/ or wherever it lives perhaps is not user writable?
<EriC^^> daftykins: that makes sense
<EriC^^> find ~ ! -user $USER
<daftykins> ooh :>
<daftykins> although TJ- is the multi display professional now on the case ;)
<TJ-> Do any of you have Gnome/Unity running desktop? I use KDE and can't search the existing config files to identify where the config is stored
<TJ-> if you do "grep -rn '1920' .config .gconf" should help - assuming your monitor resolution has 1920x<something>. Change 1920 to a resolution used by your monitor
<daftykins> i could boot a VM
<daftykins> sec :)
<daftykins> .config/monitors.xml
<daftykins> "Binary file .config/dconf/user matches"
<TJ-> daftykins: can you pastebin monitors.xml ?
<daftykins> sure
<daftykins> ugh no pastebinit and i'd already kicked off an update, oh the pain of it all
<daftykins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/12904083/
<TJ-> thanks
<daftykins> any time :)
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<daftykins> hallo thar o/
<lotuspsychje> hi xerus
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: http://news.softpedia.com/news/kubuntu-release-manager-steps-down-says-canonical-defrauded-donors-495173.shtml
<EriC^^> evening lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^ :p
<lotuspsychje> DosTuMai: good evening
<DosTuMai> EvEning. o/
<daftykins> Friday night is here already
<daftykins> my my my
<lotuspsychje> :p
<OerHeks> Kubuntu amd64 ratio 4,2 Ubuntu amd64 ratio 3,8
<lotuspsychje> nice1 OerHeks !
<lotuspsychje> good seeding
<OerHeks> kubuntu wins
<Bashing-om> Looks like the weekend mayhem has begun .
<lotuspsychje> lol
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> i dunno, we haven't had any other distro users yet today i don't think? :)
<lotuspsychje> not me
 * daftykins facepalms
<daftykins> now we have a mac question asker
<daftykins> Â¬_Â¬
<lotuspsychje> looool
<OerHeks> one asks too early, grinn
<daftykins> ;_;
<DosTuMai> ['_o|', '\\o_', 'o/', '_o/', '_o-', '\\o-']
<daftykins> ASCII yoga
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> <Â°))))))-<
<daftykins> such is the desire for Apple gear these days, these folk falls over themselves in crazy attempts to get using it
<daftykins> *fall
<lotuspsychje> oO
<lotuspsychje> someones mad
<OerHeks> some spend $1500 on a bycicle, others on displayport
<lotuspsychje> lol
<OerHeks> Yes, have you ever met Alan? (popey)
<lotuspsychje> no, why?
<lotuspsychje> ive read many articles on him though
<OerHeks> he is a huge guy man, 2 meter or so. i sure make no troubles with him :-D
<lotuspsychje> linux magazine and such
<lotuspsychje> the higher you are, the harder you can fall to the floor
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> i wonder what his quit was about
<lotuspsychje> maybe a fight with some unfriendly co-op that randomly bans friendly volunteers
<lotuspsychje> ; )
<daftykins> hahaha
<lotuspsychje> shhhh
<lotuspsychje> :p
<OerHeks> you 2 are so lucky i have no clue.
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: your not an op either :p
<OerHeks> oh, you are double lucky.
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> got query off OerHeks ?
<OerHeks> I was trying to ruins someones usb with u3-stuff
<lotuspsychje> lol
 * lotuspsychje only uses windows...to look through a wall
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: Re: Jonathan Riddell - yes, I saw his draft text yesterday
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: ok thats the one you was talking bout right
<TJ-> Yes
<lotuspsychje> omgubuntu says kubuntu doesnt ends
<TJ-> " of the other main developers have, or are about to, move on, too
<TJ-> 2 of
<daftykins> heh islandmonkey sounds like he/she is using a stolen machine :P
<lotuspsychje> and the thief wants to run over ubuntu with it :p
<wileee> All this seems like standard stuff, we are interested so know more than we would on mirrored industries. Any big orgs are gonna have hierarchies and over sized ego's
<lotuspsychje> wileee: what are you talking about
<wileee> usual human behavior, heh, the whole canonical, kubuntu in general and now this person leaving.
<lotuspsychje> ahh
<lotuspsychje> true
<wileee> just generalized, I tend to not analyze the individual characters, no way in really knowing. ;)
<OerHeks> dramatic, if a community relies on one person.
<lotuspsychje> we are all ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> and its never gonna be big org ego from our side
<daftykins> i have no clue about what proprietary software development would be like, but the open source land definitely seems to be full of skilled people fighting amongst one another
<lotuspsychje> opensource communites are the future, also in daily life
<wileee> I'm biased but think ubuntu is probably one of the best overall from beginner to devel overall, support and a future that seems to be expanding, maybe the net cough redhat
<wileee> next*
<TJ-> wileee: the issue with/for Kubuntu was, J.R. was told to quit his post on the Kubuntu Community Council, by the Ubuntu Community Council, despite UCC having no control of KCC, and the other members of the KCC fully supporting Jonathan
<wileee> or that general model of providers
<wileee> TJ-, Ah, heh, not purdy.
<TJ-> wileee:  I know of many senior, former core devs, who have moved away from Ubuntu for similar reasons
<wileee> TJ-, Sure, I think this is standard procedure in the systems we accept as a free market and how this affects consumers and the devel here many working for free I suspect.
<TJ-> Folks seem to forget the word 'dictator' in shuttleworth's 'honary' title, SABDFL (self-appointed benevolent dictaotor for life)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<TJ-> Whenever the Ubuntu 'community' wants one thing and the dictator another - SABDFL gets his way
<wileee> the free market as nice as it is, is not really working for everyone is all, yeah shuttleworth just one of the minor demigods
<OerHeks> is there more behind this, mir ?
<lotuspsychje> maybe there's a hidden agenda to make us all pay one day $$$
<lotuspsychje> amazon, phones, internet of things
<lotuspsychje> its all getting closer and closer
<TJ-> OerHeks: the issues for Jonathan was Canonical publishing a licence that claimed derivatives could NOT re-distribute binary packages (they'd have to rebuild them from source), and issues over donations money not being accounted for fully (but spent by) Canonical
<daftykins> 14.04 doesn't go straight to 15.04 is someones upgrading, does it? with utopic dead
<daftykins> s/is/if/
<OerHeks> Those license issues were solved,no?
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: would not be reccomended
<TJ-> OerHeks: pretty good overview of the issues here, especially the licence/IP policy and why the UCC/Shuttleworth insisted on J.R. standing down http://www.itworld.com/article/2949217/open-source-tools/canonical-changes-licensing-terms-to-comply-with-gpl.html
<TJ-> OerHeks: FSF got Canonical to be more explicit this July - after 2 years - but it is still problematical. See that quote of Matthew Garret in that article, 3rd para of "There are still major issues with this policy"
<TJ-> "Strict reading of the policy indicates that you are distributing a modified version of Ubuntu and therefore must either get it approved by Canonical or remove the trademarks and rebuild everything. The strange thing is that this doesn't limit itself to rebuilding packages that include Canonical's trademarks -- there's a requirement that you rebuild all binaries."
<OerHeks> version number needs a trademark license, .. but any derivate should have its own unique ID
<TJ-> That's the thing; Trademark law requires no such thing. TM law only applies for 'passing of', not 'in the ordinary course of business'
<TJ-> s/of/off/
<TJ-> this tension - in the background for many years - is what has driven the talent like Matthew Garrett, Scott Kitterman, Jonathan Riddell and others I cannot recall, away from Ubuntu. Those last 2 were very active KDE/Kubuntu devs/maintainers.
<lotuspsychje_> nite nite
<Bashing-om> TJ-: ( laiek ) Always a pleasure to see your thought processes, and great you take the time to explain .
<TJ-> :D If I'm terse I get told I'm cryptic, so I try to ensure I only say things once :D
<TJ-> Bashing-om: but basically... my brain operates like the CPU... I trace each step mentally from power-on, and figure out which decision paths the software would take based on current info... and refine that to try to pinpoint where to focus attention
<Bashing-om> TJ-: Yeah .. I try to mean what I say and say what I mean .. In my simple mind re-stating only serves to confuse/take away from my focus .
<Bashing-om> TJ-: In my early days of learning to program .. I too applied those processes to life in general . helps a bunch .
<daftykins> anyone know the default paste expiration on paste.ubuntu.com ?
<EriC^^> never i think
<EriC^^> i uploaded my partition table there one day and have it on my cellphone
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> yay
<daftykins> of all things i just helped someone discover a bug in Kodi on OS X...
<daftykins> since i've got that VM of OS X now ;)
<EriC^^> yup still there! http://paste.ubuntu.com/8874720/
<daftykins> 8D
<EriC^^> cool
<Bashing-om> TJ-: ( laiek ) /proc/mounts >> gvfsd-fuse /run/user/1000/gvfs fuse.gvfsd-fuse rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=1000,group_id=1000 0 0 . Is this the one we are seeking ??
<TJ-> Bashing-om: That's the GVFS daemon, as I recall GVFS handles mounting in userspace under ~/.gvfs/ or /run/$USER/gvfs/. or similar
<TJ-> Bashing-om: this askubuntu gives some useful background on what to expect
<TJ-> Bashing-om: http://askubuntu.com/questions/61196/why-do-my-gvfs-mounts-not-show-up-under-gvfs-or-run-user-login-gvfs
<Bashing-om> TJ-: I also do not run gnome .. I think though in those days of unity I did have that mount point, just not sure of what to look at in this case .
<TJ-> Unity uses the gnome libraries and GVFS as I recall
<TJ-> I know it doesn't use QT/KDElibs :D
<daftykins> TJ-: still busy busy i see :)
<TJ-> Almost asleep on my feet... trying to get off to bed
<daftykins> oof where did midnight come from!?
<TJ-> I think english9090's install may have everything it needs for the sound device, but not configured correctly
<TJ-> but dealing with the poor English and fixation on installing from source some realtek drivers is wearing
<daftykins> doh :(
<daftykins> do realtek actually provide a better way?
<TJ-> I think he's got misled; read random forum posts rather than checking if the drivers are already there  - which they are
<daftykins> could it have been one of those alsa config ones of adding the err, snd hda thingy
<daftykins> can't even remember it myself now
<TJ-> It's there, and the outputs are all there as per aplay -L ... I suspect auto-mute or output aimed at the HDMI
<daftykins> hmm a guy in #ubuntu-uk had to disable HDMI as a device to get an optical stream working a bit ago, could well be fighting
<TJ-> The defaults in GUI can often be the cause
<TJ-> The worst thing that happened was when Gnome/Unity/KDE all decided to dumb-down the excellent PaVuControl so we lose a GUI view into the core of PA.
<daftykins> :(
<TJ-> hmmm, so on a clean install why would ALSA see and use 1 sound device, but PA not see that device, but see the other?
<TJ-> hmmm... is this really an Ubuntu flavour? "Cinnamon Volume Control Dialog" (pactl list client #3)
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-10-24
<Ben64> noo tj quit again
<Bashing-om> But the joy when TJ- returns .
<Ben64> still want him to look at my java and laugh
<Ben64> http://ben64.com/java/1.txt <---- TJ- pretty much wrote that for me..... me doing the inverse of the first one ---> http://ben64.com/java/2.txt
<DossieKielle> Getting late, stupid late. So I'm off to bed. Night, all. o/
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> cfhowlettttttttt
<cfhowlett> new ubuntustudio torrented, much speed ...
<lotuspsychje> nice!!
<lotuspsychje> gonna try it out?
<cfhowlett> vbox only.  My machines only run LTS.  I'm bald, so can't afford to lose neither hair nor sleep ...
<lotuspsychje> me too
<lotuspsychje> lts all the way
<lordievader> Good morning.
<Ben64> want to do the inverse operation
<Ben64> it works on the paste i showed you, just seems like a really hacky way to do it
<TJ-> inverse sounds like you want to take the NFC value and turn it into a long ?
<Ben64> yeah
<Ben64> http://ben64.com/java/3.txt was my first attempt, works great until it got too large
<TJ-> Let me tinker with my original code; should be possible to make it generic
<TJ-> OK, with some generic modifications: https://iam.tj/projects/misc/NfcRaw.java
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-10-25
<daftykins> oh, so that's popey's default quit message ;)
<daftykins> TJ-: you should be in bed, sir! (with my respect :) )
<TJ-> LOL is that an offer?
<TJ-> I'm about to start an overnight apple pipe making pipe-line... aiming for another 100 or so pies
<daftykins> :D
<TJ-> s/apple pipe/apple pie/
<daftykins> i just rode back from a friends house, who usually works on the larger island of Jersey, but is back over for the weekend for his birthday
<TJ-> That issue of Ownasarus is weird; only the single PC is refused WPA connection to the AP, all other are fine
<daftykins> MAC address restriction? i doubt anybody does that these days
 * TJ- recalls his only Jersey vacation :)
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> pff you should've come to Guernsey ;)
<daftykins> that island is just little England
<TJ-> That's the only thing that makes sense but its disabled according to the GUI. There was an IP address reservation for the MAC though, so I'm suspecting there's something screwy in the stock Netgear firmware
<TJ-> I was only 9 at the time!
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> sounds like a dualboot user?
<TJ-> I think I spent most of my time climbing the gun emplacements :)
<TJ-> He said he's at his parents house, and all other devices connect OK. That says to be its definitely an auth issue. The PC can connect to a 2nd AP in the place, too
<TJ-> The AP is actively refuses to associate
<daftykins> weird!
<daftykins> by the way don't forget the clock change ;)
<wileee> apple pie and guns, we are little england
<daftykins> i just did a double take on my clock, glancing back and forth between my laptop time
<daftykins> wileee: :D that's how they roll
<wileee> ;)
<TJ-> oh yeah, back to GMT isn't it. No wonder I feel tired
<daftykins> or we, rather - in the Channel Islands
<TJ-> wileee: no guns, just the bunkers the Germans left behind
<daftykins> apple pies, German occupation fortifications... yep
<TJ-> and the overarching smell of pee!
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> is that what you remember of the gun emplacements? :)
<daftykins> i met a young lady from Albania tonight who enjoyed speaking of cycling o0
<wileee> TJ-, Yeah I saw that, I used to chase around a state mental hospital that had tunnels as a kid "not a resident", among other cool places
<wileee> as of yet anyway
<TJ-> Really? You remind me of a 'Hamish & Dougal' sketch with Miss Monica Deisel
<daftykins> wileee: that sounds really cool
<TJ-> something keeps activating the CCTV but cannot figure out what it is. It's not moths, and the spiders haven't decided to spin a web in front of the lens!
<daftykins> did i link you guys to my video of the war tunnels down south?
<wileee> I don;t think so I have not seen
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/gxdwvfnftvl2nih/VID_20151013_140922.mp4?dl=0
<TJ-> tunnels are fab for kids; we've got several around the farm yards I would play in as a kid... and build massive long tunnels with bales in summer and block all the light holes up
<daftykins> here we are, you might have to download for it to play properly
<TJ-> they should rename dropbox javascript.box!
<TJ-> I'm sick of sites that require javascript just to send a bloody file!
<TJ-> pfft! and now "Install Adobe Flash Player to preview this video."
<Ben64> idk why flash hasn't been killed off forever
<daftykins> i blame Google for making pepperflash
<wileee> daftykins, Cool looks somewhat accessible.
<Ben64> btw, thanks for the java TJ-, looks good, but crashes on large numbers :(
<TJ-> Ben64: segfault?
<daftykins> wileee: yeah i think i just missed the open season, normally it's open in summer :D
<Ben64> doesn't say segfault
<Ben64> http://pastebin.com/mkxLC0AB
<TJ-> interesting, let me try it... it's probably the whole Java signed thing again, since ff x 8 is -1
<Ben64> yeah, and the mask seems a bit off too, or maybe some other problem relating to that
<TJ-> yeah, parseLong()
<TJ-> hmmm, really? I tested it with the original value you demoed initially and it flips it correctly in both directions
<TJ-> make that value 0x7f.... and it works, so yes, signed issue
<TJ-> shouldn't be a problem though because those initial bitmappings you showed indicated the highest byte is no used in the NFC data - one octet was zeroed
<Ben64> 0xffffffffffffffff should be 281474976710655, put in 281474976710655 and it returns ffff003f03ffffff
<TJ-> unless that was just incidental
<TJ-> Ben64: but no, because 281474976710655 can't be stored :) it'll truncate and flip it to a negative
<Ben64> it should be able to be stored
<TJ-> Ben64: this is why us REAL programmers that work with real machines get annoyed with the Java design decision not to support unsigned numbers
<Ben64> its 2^48-1
<Ben64> unless i'm doing something wrong
<TJ-> 281474976710655 == 0xffffffffffffff ... largest positive integer in a long is 0x7ffffffffffffff
<TJ-> the most-significant-bit is the sign flag
<Ben64> 0xffffffffffffff = 72057594037927935
<TJ-> how many f's are we talking ? :D
<Ben64> yeah its confusing
<TJ-> 16 f's is what I'm referring to
<TJ-> as in a 64-bit with all bits set is -1 in java
<Ben64> the highest number the rfid supports would be 281474976710655 = 0xf(12)
<TJ-> Hmm, that should work then. Let me check !
<Ben64> since it moves bits around and not all of them get used
<Ben64> oh whoops thats my mistake
<Ben64> ffff3f00c0ffffff is right, since it drops the bits that are unused
<Ben64> although the latest version returned ffff003f03ffffff
<TJ-> so i see: http://paste.ubuntu.com/12937580/
<Ben64> i think java 8 adds unsigned numbers
<TJ-> No, but there was some static parsing added to Integer and Long
<Ben64> how did minecraft get written in this?
<Ben64> how do people make stuff with android :S
<TJ-> I see why it fails, in the NFC representation the high bits are set even though the 'real' magnitude of the value represented is less, so parseLong() fails
<TJ-> Hmmm, what tricks can I pull to keep that code clean? I know, write the damn thing in C!
<Ben64> ha
<TJ-> I've fixed that by splitting the NFC hex value into 2 and parsing it as 1 separate 32-bit values. But the value is wrong in the end! I've uploaded the source to the same location
<daftykins> if you guys are ok with having your eardrums violated, my friend has shared an audio stream with me of an RTLSDR fan who is picking up a nearby bar's karaoke night wireless microphone: http://mixlr.com/atouk/
<daftykins> oh my dear Tux it's bad XD
<TJ-> Please don't torture me!
<daftykins> you have to :)
<Ben64> oh no
<Ben64> pink floyd
<Ben64> don't do it
<TJ-> Ben64: OK, I had the new split shift and substring offsets completely wrong! I'm fixing those but sitll losing precision due to the signed msb
<Ben64> D:
<Ben64> i don't think this guy has ever heard this song before
<TJ-> Fixed it for complete 16-character hex values, but a shorter hex value will die currently. pull the latest source code file and see what you think
<Ben64> the first bit still messing with things it looks like
<daftykins> you guys are missing out on this karaoke
<Ben64> i'm not actually
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i'm gonna find the bar and enter :)
<Ben64> its bad, you're a bad person for making me listen to it
<Ben64> is it in the uk?
<DosTuMai> Karaoke? Where? D=
<daftykins> lol nah my friend who linked me to it is from Kansas
<Ben64> oh
<daftykins> DosTuMai: http://mixlr.com/atouk/
<DosTuMai> Boooo.
<daftykins> he thinks it's from the east coast, somewhere
<Ben64> how does he not know
<daftykins> this is the trouble with software defined radio fans :(
<daftykins> DosTuMai: we're currently hearing the raw talent of "Yami"
<TJ-> Ben64: and again, sorted it, it builds the input value nibble by nibble
<TJ-> Ben64: latest is on my server now
<Ben64> oh wow i didn't even recognize this song at first
<daftykins> oh my god Elton John
<DosTuMai> FSM's Noodley Appendage...
 * daftykins sways
<DosTuMai> I need to stop this before my head implodes...
<daftykins> "haunting the horny-back toad" - i'm not sure that's the real line?!
<Ben64> Hunting the horny back toad
<daftykins> no thanks Rick
<daftykins> ok Tony, give us some gold
<daftykins> oh "Toni" :D
<DosTuMai> I'm cackling like she just did...
<daftykins> she just devolved to the na-na-na's
<daftykins> she's not drunk!?
<Ben64> maybe she should be
<daftykins> i'd buy her a round just to sit down :)
<DosTuMai> Britney, eh?
<daftykins> Britney, omw
<Ben64> i went to a karaoke bar thing once
<daftykins> never again? :)
<Ben64> dude went up and chose hank williams jr
<Ben64> i was like "oh no"
<Ben64> then he killed it, it was so amazing
<daftykins> is that country?
<DosTuMai> I've been kicked out of karaoke bars for obvious trolling.
<Ben64> yeah, like old school
<Ben64> really twangy and stuff
<Ben64> wait no he did hank williams
<Ben64> not jr
<TJ-> I remember seeing Hank at the theatre
<daftykins> DosTuMai: how does one troll an already offensive event?
<DosTuMai> By singing Kate Bush in the worst possible way.
<daftykins> zomg it died
<daftykins> ok we're back
<TJ-> Can't get any worse than Kate Bush!
<Ben64> don't like this song but she's not bad
<Ben64> gj britney
<daftykins> hmm to talk shop for a moment i can't think why this guy has mode setting disabled
<DosTuMai> You can get worse than Kate Bush if it's me singing Wuthering Heights.
<daftykins> pesky KMS is like an enigma
<Ben64> which guy?
<daftykins> "asdpoa"
<daftykins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/12938668/ - line 173
<daftykins> Britney i wouldn't want to meet you on a dark night
<Ben64> people do weird stuff
<TJ-> daftykins: but that would be expected as the VESA driver can't provide DRI
<Ben64> fleetwood mac
<TJ-> daftykins: the problem stems from the nvidia kernel driver not being loaded, I think.
<daftykins> oh wait i'm too drunk, i only just noticed the nvidia module didn't load
<Ben64> said so
<daftykins> we've had words with me before about assistance whilst intoxicated! that's a bad daftykins!
<Ben64> you should do karaoke and let us listen daftykins
<TJ-> :D
<Ben64> uh oh, bad start
<daftykins> there's an mp3 out there of me singing The Chauffeur by Deftones
<daftykins> i think i destroyed all evidence, though
<Ben64> ... don't do a song if you only know the chorus
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> i did get drunk with some friends in a local pub and try a Rage Against the Machine song
<Ben64> which song
<daftykins> we forgot just how fast 'Renegades of Funk' got :(
<Ben64> ha
<daftykins> our other friend said it was more 'Renegades of Pop'
<DosTuMai> I couldn't listen to any more of that...
<Ben64> wa wa wa wa wa
<daftykins> DosTuMai: call yourself a Canuck!?
<daftykins> MY DAWTAH
<daftykins> sounds like a Jersey thang.
<Ben64> boston?
<daftykins> oh that's true
<daftykins> i'm not hot on accents :(
<daftykins> i'm still learning the UK
<Ben64> maybe this is from kansas?
<Ben64> they sound generic
<DosTuMai> I'd say Kansas, too.
<daftykins> just to let me down ~
<Ben64> just need them to say the time or something
<DosTuMai> What the...
<Ben64> she just had a root canal
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> police forces should demand karaoke as a sobriety test
<Ben64> "no thanks" = sober ?
<DosTuMai> No, because I'd troll on the mic sober.
<daftykins> my something foooor a centrefold
<daftykins> Ben64: yeah :D
 * daftykins emails Ownasaurus the karaoke link
<daftykins> :D
<DosTuMai> xD
 * daftykins sways to more Elton John
<daftykins> despite the time change it's now already half 3
<daftykins> DosTuMai: what's your excuse!?
<DosTuMai> Insomnia.
<daftykins> oh yeah
<TJ-> Apple Pie
<daftykins> DosTuMai: i was talking downhilling with a young lady from Albania of all places, tonight o0
<DosTuMai> Awesome. =D There's some real nice mountains there.
<daftykins> she was telling me she never had a bike because of the way life was over there when she was young o0
<daftykins> now she's over on Jersey (bah!) and riding on the road
<TJ-> mainly cart horses and wooden trailers
<daftykins> kept asking me what kind of bike to buy, to ride road over there and also go to Wales for downhill
<daftykins> i was like, mmmm none? :D
<daftykins> TJ-: those infernal horseless carriages!
<DosTuMai> No, don't road on a DH rig, and - unless you're suicidal - don't DH on a road bike...
<daftykins> omg James Brown is coming...
<daftykins> Ricky!?
<DosTuMai> And Spice Girls...
<daftykins> _NO_
<daftykins> that's where i draw the line
<DosTuMai> So unprofessional...
<daftykins> they just said sunday night!?
<daftykins> are... are we on a stream with the future?
<DosTuMai> D=
<TJ-> It's a bar.. they, or you, or both, are pished!
<DosTuMai> Something to do with entangled particles?
<daftykins> more than particles are entangled right now
<DosTuMai> Tone, tempo, vocal abilities...
<daftykins> ooh, meanwhile in real life a couple are having a domestic outside my front door
<TJ-> Live stream!
<DosTuMai> And I'm trying not to wake my gf...
<daftykins> dafty, ruining your relationships, since 2015
<DosTuMai> She'll just tell me to STFU and try to laugh quieter...
<daftykins> that's the spirit
<daftykins> halloween!?
<daftykins> seriously this stream is from the future
<TJ-> there have been other Sundays :)
 * daftykins sings Boston - More Than a Feelin'
<DosTuMai> xD
<daftykins> i wonder if there's a good song that could be parodied with Ubuntu
<daftykins> i'd do that for you guys
<daftykins> but you have to have my back if the ops ban me again
<DosTuMai> Same Britney? D=
<daftykins> hasn't she done enough :(
<DosTuMai> Obviously not!
<daftykins> poor lass, born tone deaf
<TJ-> U boon to be free ?
<DosTuMai> B-b-b-bash to the kernel.
<daftykins> you just reminded me of the guy that refused to take advice from me because i didn't know "how to get bash from the liveCD"
<daftykins> which it transpired was this guy meaning how to run a terminal :D
<TJ-> Yeah, I remember him!
<daftykins> XD
<TJ-> We get all sorts!
<daftykins> "sorry daftykins you don't sound professional enough to me, you don't use the wrong terms for things like me!"
<DosTuMai> xD
<daftykins> alright i think that's my cue to head to bed, as much as Britney is entertaining me
<DosTuMai> Yes, I'm going to stop listening because this is making what's left of my brain ache...
<daftykins> maybe if we keep going we'll regress and try to install DOS
<daftykins> could be a happier life... who knows?
 * DosTuMai NP: Sometimes I see - Atomic cat
<DosTuMai> Much better.
<DosTuMai> Wish I didn't put 'dos' on my highlights...
<daftykins> Sometimes I see Fukushima?
<DosTuMai> Song title & artist...
<daftykins> too soon.
<daftykins> yeah i was just being... tipsykins
<daftykins> i'm so glad this channel is logged in public 8D
<DosTuMai> So no random hentai tentacle links? D=
<daftykins> logging doesn't exclude that :P
<DosTuMai> Awesome. Well, I'm going to try & sleep. Night all. o/
<daftykins> good morrow ma'am \o
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<wileee> ah another star trek with dueling good and bad kirk's, twice the overacting ;)
<lotuspsychje> wileee: :p
<lotuspsychje> sunday calmness :p
<lordievader> Good morning.
<lotuspsychje> good noon to all
<lordievader> o/
<lotuspsychje> hi lordievader and daftykins
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Ubuntu-Phone-Ex-Screen
<lotuspsychje> ioria: good afternoon mate
<ioria> lotuspsychje, Good Afternoon to all .....................
<lotuspsychje> hi tieinv
<tieinv> lotuspsychje, hello
<lotuspsychje> bll have a great sunday guys
<MonkeyDust> many steam questions, these last few days
<TJ-> I'm steaming already!
<cfhowlett> I steamed some buns ...
<TJ-> I'm doing an apple pie marathon :)
<TJ-> Trying to turn all the orchard apples into something tasty and frozen :)
<MonkeyDust> oddly, i'm unable to run in 15.10, wmware player guest ... i want to try lxd
<MonkeyDust> to run lxc*
<TJ-> Wow! Now Ubuntu is to blame for having to walk 10 blocks?
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<ioria> hi there
<lotuspsychje> hey ioria :p
<lotuspsychje> ioria: whats the time in italy?
<ioria> lotuspsychje, so and so.... usually it's still warm...  but nowdays  isfreezing
<lotuspsychje> ioria: and hows the weather :p ?
<ioria> oh...
<lotuspsychje> hahaha
<ioria> thetime is 17:35 :Ã¾
<lotuspsychje> 17h35 here and also freezing
<lotuspsychje> cool
<ioria> yes ... legal/solar time
<lotuspsychje> .be not so far away from you
<lotuspsychje> my friend travel to rimini with the car in 14hours
<ioria> wow....  rimini is  fun ....
<lotuspsychje> ioria: my friend has familly there
<ioria> Emilia-Romagna is oneofthe best  region in Italy
<MonkeyDust> why do so many italians say !list in #ubuntu?
<lotuspsychje> because many many italians like big warez channels :p
<ioria> MonkeyDust, really idk ...  i heard  of an italian programmer wrote something related to it ...
<lotuspsychje> they look at you MonkeyDust and think your a serving bot :p
<TJ-> I don't know why we just don't have ubottu respond with a list of useful links
<TJ-> Rather than the negative 'warez' reprimand
<MonkeyDust> lotuspsychje  i'm only a bot, please don't think i'm intelligent
<lotuspsychje> hahaha
<ioria> :P
 * lotuspsychje feels so n00b now
 * lotuspsychje throws a xenial xerus is MonkeyDust's neck
 * MonkeyDust strips its skin and makes it a pair of gloves
 * OerHeks is now known as OerHeks
<TJ-> So it's now XXX :)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: you thinking of latex gloves?
<TJ-> I think an "Ubuntu XXX" release would double user numbers
<lotuspsychje> hehe
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: I wasn't but now that you mention it...
<lotuspsychje> :p
<ioria> also KidUbuntu ...  dedicated  to  children
<lotuspsychje> lolz
<MonkeyDust> ioria  edubuntu is supported release, for kids
<ioria> with  HUGE icons ....
<ioria> oh yes
<ioria> i installed once
<MonkeyDust> grannybuntu would be something...
<ioria> i  meant   something simplified
<ioria> yep .... for my granpa..  icannot use a cell  phone
<ioria> *he
<lotuspsychje> bbl dinner
<ioria> bon  appetit
<MonkeyDust> è¯·äº«ç¨
<daftykins> i can see motaka is going to be one of those high maintenance question askers
<daftykins> demands explanations of every single command before running them *sigh*
<OerHeks> Yes, and ignoring full /tmp whatever
<daftykins> i thought it got cleared on every boot?
<daftykins> how is it that some people end up with a full one or having a strangely small one?
<daftykins> i seem to be using 500KB out of 37MB on mine, server install
<EriC^^> anybody worked in computer stuff, Bashing-om you've worked and programmed and or been a sys admin right?
<MonkeyDust> i also don't get why some people have the computer problems they have
<lotuspsychje> ioria: grazie
<ioria> Eric^^ what's up ?
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: Professionally, communications technical controller .
<lotuspsychje> daftykins, EriC^^ Bashing-om OerHeks good evening :p
<daftykins> heya, how's it going?
<lotuspsychje> fine fine tnx
<daftykins> EriC^^: i do support for a living?
<MonkeyDust> i don't want to do computing anymore, professionally
<Bashing-om> I looked when I re-joined the channel .. and I thought .. Hail hail, the gang is all here .
<daftykins> MonkeyDust: i think people are their own worst enemies, especially the ones we see on here :)
<EriC^^> i want to know how much the stuff learnt in uni is important
<daftykins> Bashing-om: :D
<daftykins> yeah full house today, is it the winter bringing us all in? :)
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: im hardware guy, but worked after hours not proeffsional and did back support for mediamarket
<EriC^^> would you say the stuff learnt in uni is mandatory for working in a professional position?
<daftykins> EriC^^: well i can certainly say my networking degree was useless, i learnt some theory of protocols... had lab sessions that forced me to learn more Linux usage... that was about it
<daftykins> nah i think you'd learn more on the job than in education
<TJ-> Always
<daftykins> but then i've always been self-taught so education for me was more getting that piece of paper than learning much
<TJ-> IT is more about intuition based on long experience
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: ICT titles are also very exagerated for jobs
<daftykins> TJ-: +1
<lotuspsychje> they ask a big list of capabilities
<lotuspsychje> wileee: good evening
<TJ-> Before I retired, when I was taking on new employees... graduate applications were marked down compared to slef-starters
<EriC^^> would you think a company would hire someone without a degree in cs?
<EriC^^> they all say degree in cs or equivalent at the bottom
<TJ-> EriC^^: I certainly would
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: depends on your backgrouns really
<daftykins> depends on your experience i guess, often they want you to have a degree for more than just the educational aspects
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: I did 5+ years @ university to support my professional knowledge . In my case, not a good thing . best done in-house through company assetts . MHO ! .
<TJ-> EriC^^: If someone can demonstrate they CAN do rather than just use lots of TLAs
<lotuspsychje> many companys also hire ex-hackers with no degrees
<TJ-> EriC^^: where Uni comes in, is if the person did Comp Sci so they have a glimmering of understanding of what goes on underneath everything
<EriC^^> yeah
<TJ-> I generally found with new graduates we had to retrain them for about 12 months
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: are you considering an ICT job?
<EriC^^> that's what i mean about the first question
<EriC^^> yeah lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: wanna share us what kind?
<TJ-> I'd always want someone who wants to take things apart to find out how they work. At my companies I had a playroom with Lego and Mechano and so on... and would ask applicants to build anything they liked in 10 minutes
<EriC^^> i'm getting pretty bored with no job
<lotuspsychje> butbutbut then we wont see you on irc anymore lol
<EriC^^> i like linux'y stuff, i'm not very keen on programming stuff, i'm finding alot of php/mysql/java jobs though
<EriC^^> and some linux admin jobs
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: with your hardware/uefi knowlegde you could repair pc as technician right?
<EriC^^> i guess yeah but there's no job like that here
<EriC^^> lol :D 1-800-eric-support
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: or maybe maintain a php website?
<lotuspsychje> webmaster
<EriC^^> yeah there's a lot of jobs in php java sql stuff
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: other jobs come in mind for eric?
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: Get your foot in the door, see what opportunities open up, and more importantly, what opportunities you can make .
<EriC^^> i got a job offer like 9 months ago from someone i met here, but i blew it away cause i thought i'm going to suck at it, it was a linux admin position
<TJ-> I'm racking my brains. I know the best way is to get in front of someone to showcase what you can do, without it being an interview situation. I've taken on my best people just through a fluke of seeing them do something clever/amazing/insightful and wanted their skills
<daftykins> :D
<TJ-> EriC^^: the best thing I can suggest is set yourself up a professional Local network at home, and practice managing/monitoring/securing it. Even if it is just lots of virtual machines/containers. Practice with the things that most SMEs will have
<EriC^^> he was someone i helped in #linux and became friends then one day he said their company needed another linux guy
<EriC^^> and he gave me a test, i did well on the linux stuff and bad on the windows and networking stuff (pretty much bombed those) he said it's ok he could get me in
<daftykins> i think Linux sysadmin could be fun, but i feel i don't know enough to do it
<DosTuMai> I'd love to go for an interview at your place, TJ-. I'd probably make a mechano trebuchet. xD
<EriC^^> but i thought i'm going to go there and no uni background so i'd suck
<daftykins> no idea on resources to learn more, either
<EriC^^> daftykins: yeah me too i tried the linux inode tutorials
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: alot of sql database jobs out there also
<DosTuMai> Loads in the UK, EriC^^.
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: not sure howto get jobs like hosting companys, but that could be an idea also 'work from home'
<TJ-> DosTuMai: Someone did!
<TJ-> DosTuMai: we spent 1/2 hour shooting gob-stoppers at the window
<DosTuMai> Person after my own heart, there. xD
<daftykins> DosTuMai: loads of what in the UK?
<TJ-> EriC^^: the first thing you need to do, is lose the inferiority complex vs a graduate. Most graduates I see do the minimum work, crib of others, and barely know more than a switched-on 14 year old
<DosTuMai> SQL DBA/Dev jobs.
<lotuspsychje> the problem is, alot of jobs are windows based...and they pretty s*ck on security
<TJ-> EriC^^: have you ever considered getting in the cybersecurity side of things?
<daftykins> blech SQL :P
<EriC^^> TJ-: i feel like i'm being an imposter or like reaching out to something that doesn't belong to me, if i go to a job
<EriC^^> i dunno if you get what i mean, it's stupid but i feel like that
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: in my country .gov asking cybersecurity guys
<ioria> Eric^^ you do what  you  love
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: i have the same feeling, many of your skillz dont belong to what jobs really ask
<TJ-> EriC^^: Right. And you need to lose that. You have talents way beyond what most graduates have, AND you have something more important too: life experience and patience
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: its like you have own special talents
<ioria> Eric^^ not what you're a genius to
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: yeah i get what you mean, i also feel that too
<TJ-> EriC^^: Are you in Lebanon?
<EriC^^> yeah
<ioria> marhaban  bika
<TJ-> EriC^^: Hmmm, that sort of makes things more challenging. Are you able/willing to relocate?
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: Pardon me. But, the 1st thing in any job .. does it interest you ? The 'want to know' is the more important aspect in a job relationship .
<EriC^^> TJ-: no, must be in a lebanon
<wileee> EriC^^, You have family there right?
<EriC^^> yeah
<TJ-> EriC^^: OK, so local, or remote working
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: http://www.itgholding.com/careers?page=9
<EriC^^> Bashing-om: yeah i love learning about grub and disk stuff and linux stuff and trouble shooting
<wileee> EriC^^, Cool, some of the nicest people I have known and worked for were Lebanese, interesting cultural history, I would want to stay as well. ;)
<lotuspsychje> bachelor degrees been asked everywhere these days...makes me sick
<lotuspsychje> wanna work in the wall market= bachelor degree...
<EriC^^> wileee: hehe ;)
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: Like TJ- advised. cyber security is where it is at now-a-days, CS touches every aspect of a operating system . IF one is familiar with cyber security, they know a system well !
<TJ-> EriC^^: with cybersecurity there are lots of organisations running competitions for you to hone your skills
<EriC^^> i really like the grub fixing stuff
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> EriC^^: you've become quite the boot pro!
<EriC^^> lol it's what i like the most
<wileee> it does feel good when fixed, heh, people are really happy
<ioria> Eric^^ you could write   a tutorial
<EriC^^> just need a company that needs a grub -fixer
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: repair pc's as technician, uefi,win,linux
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: macs
<EriC^^> nobody uses linux here lotuspsychje
<ioria> i think  companies  use redundancy
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: pc shops needs repair technicians in your area?
<EriC^^> i dunno about that though
<EriC^^> i suck at hardware and networking a lot
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: send your Cv to some ict stores localy
<ioria> Eric^^  the  Arab  Springs passed through social forums
<daftykins> i'd always be happy to answer any questions you have if i can
<EriC^^> and i'd be just formatting windows pc's and reinstalling windows
<daftykins> best way for Windows machines a lot of the time :D
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: yeah while you working, leave irc open and we all help
<EriC^^> they probably will give like $20 / format
<lotuspsychje> gonna do the same with ubuntu shop, you guys gave me alot of hints already
<daftykins> :)
<wileee> I think you're on the right track, reinstalls are what I've had to do for all my friends due to infections basically, user errors
<DosTuMai> Best way for fixing windows is reformatting and installing Linux. >_>
<wileee> all MS
<daftykins> i've never really done a flat rate service, just charge an hourly rate but only count it when i'm actually actively doing something
<daftykins> DosTuMai: bullshit
 * TJ- has been debating launching a security and quality focused Debian-derived distro :D
<daftykins> and that attitude really frustrates me :P
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: doesnt that exist already on distrowatch?
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: I've not seen anything that meets my standards so far - as in, developer who won't release code until there are ZERO warnings or errors in the log files, and actually write unit-tests, and run everything through test suites and continuous integration to avoid regressions!
<lotuspsychje> ive seen many distro's comming by on softpedia also
<TJ-> I've been keeping tabs on a handful of dev's that actually work professionally :p
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: yeah i understand your standards are pretty high
<wileee> TJ-, I think you would have a lot of support here if needed. ;)
<TJ-> wileee: thanks :) You never know what the New Year might bring :)
<TJ-> I'm trying to avoid becoming another Shuttleworth, that's the problem!
<lotuspsychje> the opensource thinking is the future
<lotuspsychje> we are born to follow a different way, beyound traditional thinking
<wileee> TJ-, Never met the big S, but you've showed a very fair model of help that gets to the issue with the user understanding if possible, that is a challenge of patience at the least.
<wileee> with a big tool set heh heh
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: sysadmin of a local school might be another idea
<EriC^^> yeah im thinking to apply to whatever computer fixing jobs i can find
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: lotuspsychje : ^^ Here in the US that is a great idea !
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: another important thing is to have an organized CV
<EriC^^> i dont even like programming that much to be honest, i was thinking more along the lines of what i should do whats in the paper and bullshit stuff
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: talk to someone with CV/recruitment knowlegde and let them help you setup your skillz
<daftykins> EriC^^: i've always been the same, i do home + small biz fixing but not enough to keep me busy
<daftykins> need moar work :D
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: ive quit my job at mediamarket (after-sale-support) because my teammember were very unproffessional
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: broken hardware==back in the box to the store ready to be sold to new customers
<EriC^^> that sucks
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: so new customers got used pc's with data on it..
<lotuspsychje> unbelievable methods
<EriC^^> i used to work at a job i didn't like, i studied mechanical engineering in uni cause at the time i was into cars a lot, and working sucked i dont like it
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: even the electronic part of car job dont like?
<wileee> I have been happiest as an owner operator overall self employed, you answer to yourself
<lotuspsychje> wileee: explain that abit mate?
<lotuspsychje> wileee: what do you dod practicaly
<daftykins> yeah i enjoy self employment
<lotuspsychje> did
<EriC^^> it's not really car stuff lotuspsychje , i thought it was entering uni and i kept saying soon i'll learn all these cool stuff about cars but it never happened
<wileee> lotuspsychje, I use to have a carpet upholstery and windows cleaning biz, about 100$ an hour, not 8 hrs a day is all.
<EriC^^> i used to work in a company that made food processing stuff, i used to draw and design food processing automation machines like a robotic cutter or whatever
<wileee> I dev epilepsy from an earlier head injury and lost my licensee to drive is all
<wileee> license*
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: same happened to me, learned car body operator in school, now more interested >IT jobs
<lotuspsychje> wileee: nice
<wileee> I think there is excellent money in the service industry room for self employment is all
<EriC^^> self imployment is awesome
<EriC^^> one thing i really didn't like about my old job was that i had to take it up the ass
<EriC^^> ( to be frank )
<daftykins> there are always going to be people that need our skills, or even tasks you'd think too simple on computers for anyone to need
<daftykins> or for my main client, he just doesn't have the time to deal with things
<EriC^^> like call this company who messed up a laser cutting job, after we've had it for 6 months, and it's just a $20 screw up and demand a refund
<EriC^^> wtf i'd commit suicide before doing that personally, and bosses are like i own you almost, it sucks
<wileee> be nice to make money at music, I play multiple instruments know theory am a high level jazz player, nothing except edu is really possible and very little available
<lotuspsychje> yeah company ownerships over the sheeps is nightmare!!
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: this should motivate us to find something different
<EriC^^> but what lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: take my shop example, the lost jobs from the past made me realize
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: we need to think out of the box
<daftykins> i need to get some biz cards made up or something to just get my name out there more
<EriC^^> yeah thats true i meant for me haha
<daftykins> though when i used to get asked to cycle the whole length of the island to go look at a non-functioning printer that was like, hah no thanks :P
<MonkeyDust> a lxc container in a vm, please tell me this is overkill
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: with your skillz, there's alot to think of
<EriC^^> yeah daftykins self promotion goes a long way i hear at least
<lotuspsychje> MonkeyDust: maybe lordievader knows alot of vm's
<daftykins> *nod* my regular clients are all from word of mouth
<MonkeyDust> lotuspsychje  it'w working, i simply have no use for it, but it's fun
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: start with a nice CV, tweaked with someone's knowlegde
<lordievader> MonkeyDust: We do that...
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: and start spreading around your interested places
<lordievader> MonkeyDust: Webserver vm where every website is its own lxc container.
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: even if they dont seek somebody, send your cv anyway
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: good idea
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: taking control is very important
<daftykins> does lxc just virtualise processes atop a single host kernel, so there's not a kernel per instance... or?
<MonkeyDust> lordievader  yes, but for a websierver, my computer should be always-on, that's not the case here
<TJ-> daftykins: yes
<daftykins> neat :)
<TJ-> daftykins: Linux Containers, makes use of the kernel's Control Groups and Namespaces
<daftykins> i'm a digitalocean fanboy though, super cheap VPSs are amazing
<TJ-> daftykins: I am using unprivileged containers to contain many things now, most interestingly, the web-browser
<daftykins> ah har
<TJ-> I've been with Linode since they started
<daftykins> :D
<TJ-> I used to have space in TeleHouse London but once I packed in that was too much overkill
<wileee> TJ-, In a sense I can relate to your concerns as a leader on a OS, even when self employed I had on occasion asked for help, but paid them way beyond a normal wage to be sure it was fair.
<MonkeyDust> nice   <-- talking to myself
<TJ-> MonkeyDust: :)
<TJ-> That's the first sign of Sanity
<daftykins> must be a hassle to drive out there to replace things if say, a disk dies?
<daftykins> if you still had it i mean
<MonkeyDust> halfway to sanity
<TJ-> daftykins: rarely happens and there are always several spares. I've always believed in deploying identical hot spares of all systems, which includes the laptops, so its quick and simple to swap to another
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> how do you manage that on a laptop? models with space for a secondary internal, or just using a caddy and regularly imaging over?
<TJ-> daftykins: I've always used some form of RAID with several spares. Even then, the only time we had a major incident was caused by a web-dev that tried to adminster a Windows server for a client, and messed up the registry
<TJ-> I spent a tiring 40 hours living in the data-center doing forensics and recovery because he'd also not had the backups running
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> oi what an idiot
<daftykins> mmm i do love my RAID setups
<TJ-> It took about 36 hours to do the forensics and figure out what had been done... and 2 minutes to fix it!
<daftykins> speaking of which, i allowed my old 6 x 1TB to rebuild and now all it's doing is wasting my electricity bill, those disks add about 45W to my server :)
<daftykins> gotta come up with something to do with it :/
<TJ-> Ouch.
<TJ-> I've trying to move everything here off-grid, looking at installing some big  solar panels, and a decent wind turbine since we are hit by the south-westerly wind hard year-round
<daftykins> that'd be fun
<daftykins> i only pay about Â£40/mo electric
<TJ-> Yeah; never enough time to do everything
<daftykins> the islands get their power from France these days, big cable link from Cherbourg
<TJ-> Our problem is with interruptions to the power because the lines to the farm and the sub-stations often have issues
<daftykins> used to have such regular power cuts when i was a kid
<daftykins> ah yeah
<TJ-> I'm slowly building out a 12V DC circuit around the house for lighting, monitors, and PCs. Using some big tractor batteries... just need to keep them charged
<TJ-> In #ubuntu is lrs comes back point him to the T520 service manual link, and tell him Bluetooth module is mentioned on page 86, at  http://emergent.unpythonic.net/01365079830
<ioria> diesel dynamo  ?
<daftykins> is longevity not an issue with those?
<MonkeyDust> brb
<TJ-> I have to do some real-world stuff now
<daftykins> TJ-: roger that
<TJ-> daftykins: longevity of... batteries?
<TJ-> s/T520/T530/
<TJ-> batteries are 120Ah, several strung together rather like an old submarine :)
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> funky
<TJ-> Feeding time at the zoo... Huskies only howl for food!
<lotuspsychje> bon apetit
<daftykins> hahaha, at full volume?
<TJ-> It's about the only time they howl... that and when I'm tardy in taking them out around the fields for a run
<TJ-> uhoh! here they come... mad race to get to the sofa first :D
<lotuspsychje> huskies in a sofa?
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> yeah TJ-'s shown a great pic before
<lotuspsychje> wolves in the bathtub
<lotuspsychje> scary
<TJ-> They are right soppy things :)
<TJ-> I came into the study this morning and found all 6 sofa cushions on the floor, looked like a whirlwind had hit
<lotuspsychje> oO
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: do you let em sleep in your bed also :p
<OerHeks> are you a sleepfighter?
<TJ-> they have their own beds
<TJ-> this sofa is for them, too
<lotuspsychje> aahh
<daftykins> i think TJ- would need a 12 foot wide bed to have them all in XD
<lotuspsychje> i loved that liam neeson movie the grey
<TJ-> This is them just now: https://iam.tj/photos/Sofa_Dogs.jpg
<daftykins> :D
<lotuspsychje> nice
<MonkeyDust> beautiful animals
<daftykins> note to self, when visiting TJ- take a folding chair
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: my gf asks whats that cloud on the wall is
<TJ-> Oh... my white-board
<lotuspsychje> what does that mean? to pin to-do's?
<daftykins> writable surface with pens, modern blackboard :)
<MonkeyDust> to do: get milk
<TJ-> Look at the Whiteboard photo at https://iam.tj/photos/
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: you can wipe the text afterwards on that cloud?
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: my gf also wants it she says :p
<daftykins> :D
<MonkeyDust> TJ-: leave his gf alone
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: Yes. instead of a flat rectangular board, you can buy paint-on stuff.
<MonkeyDust> (joke)
<TJ-> MonkeyDust: I'll make one for a 15% mark-up :D
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> tnx for the idea
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: see http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000PGBCOC?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s00
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: so you made the cloud pattern, and painted that stuff inside?
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: other way around, I painted the dry erase paint on first, then after a week or so when it was fully hardened painted around the edge
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: the whole wall?
<TJ-> No, just the cloud shape. with it being white on white for the sloped ceiling it needed a contrasting border so I thought blue would look good
<lotuspsychje> and it looks good too
<OerHeks> secure cloud, no ssh login
<TJ-> OerHeks: I only use the VPN :p
<daftykins> now i've got mine i consider using it when in public, got openVPN on my android phone too :)
<TJ-> I've always insisted on VPN for remote access; no public access to any remote admin services
<lotuspsychje> i got https access to his cloud: https://iam.tj/photos/Study_Whiteboard.jpg
<TJ-> LOL
<TJ-> this 'lrs' is determined that Linux is at fault for not miraculously detecting the missing Bluetooth device
<daftykins> indeed
<daftykins> definitely a high maintenance helpee
<OerHeks> some combochips need some work
<TJ-> At least he actually took the laptop apart and proved there is a device there. I recall a similar incident a few years ago and the user kept insisting for days the PC had BT since it said so on the advertising... a week later admitted defeat, opened it up... no BT module - it was optional
<TJ-> OerHeks: Yes, but they are almost always on the PCI bus and we can see the co-WiFi device
<OerHeks> hah, had that too, switch on the model, but no bt
<daftykins> TJ-: hehe that's always the scenario i have in mind when we get the bluetooth folk
<TJ-> :D
<TJ-> Amazing how long folks can have a PC before checking all the hardware is actually there
<daftykins> TJ-: not sure if you ever bother with TV, i typically don't, but i found an amazing add-on for Kodi that lets you jump on live BBC iPlayer feeds with super high quality
<daftykins> probably get shutdown at some point but for now ;)
<TJ-> I generally don't, although I did set up the HTPC and projector for it a long time ago. Only really use that for watching discs once in a blue moon
 * daftykins shakes his head at parapan
<daftykins> TJ-: yeah same :)
<daftykins> this guys attitude is terrible
<daftykins> "no i refuse to run commands, just throw the magical switch to fix it for me please"
<Bashing-om> ^^ My thoughts; You ask for our help, then follow our thought process - if you caould fix it yourself - you would not be here . Else, forget about it !
<daftykins> indeed :D
<daftykins> hey guys, Enya has a new album coming out that's named after one of the islands near me :)
<TJ-> Did you see that!? lrs - specifically told him to include the quote marks as I typed them, and he still repeated it wrong!
<daftykins> XD
<TJ-> it shows how our brains remember patterns not exactly what we see
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> i had to ignore english, guy kept PMing me even when i said not to.
<TJ-> I have /umode +g set
<TJ-> Have you noticed how you can almost tell the personality from a nickname? E.g.  'english9090' does not have 2020 english! and anyone with hax0r in their nick is clueless?
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: thats some deep stuff
<daftykins> oh my Tux that guy parapan pastebin'd himself installing pastebinit
<TJ-> daftykins: :D
<TJ-> It's silly season, winter is coming on
<daftykins> :)
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: I've scientifically proved over 20+ years on IRC!
<TJ-> s/proved/proved it/
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: what do you make out of my nick :p
<TJ-> well, aside from the fact that I always misread it as "lotuspie"
<lotuspsychje> lol
<TJ-> I assumed you're a relapsed Samurai that has seen the true path and been brainwashed by the SABDFL :p
<lotuspsychje> lotus= buhdism, universal compassion psychje= the digital age psyche
<lotuspsychje> a mix of both
<TJ-> haha, now I've figured out the religion of our visitors. You have buhdism, they have duh-ism :P
<lotuspsychje> lol
<TJ-> Dinner time. someone repeat my last LONG message to 'lrs' if he returns. Also check if he booted the system correctly with the setting active by doing "cat /proc/cmdline; dmesg | grep Windows" - we WANT to see ACPI _OSI(Windows 2012) as the active ACPI OS ID
<lotuspsychje> bon apetit
<lotuspsychje> alot of acpi firmware bugs on 15.04 lately
<lotuspsychje> had tons of acpi errors in syslog users
<daftykins> TJ-: *nod*
<lotuspsychje> trusty solves alot of acpi headaches
<lotuspsychje> nite nite all
<daftykins> ta-ra sir o/
<TJ-> Grrrr
<daftykins> that guy is a tad bad :)
<EriC^^> just tried an .iso in /boot didn't work
<TJ-> he's a whirlwind... like me really :)
<EriC^^> guess there's more to it
<TJ-> EriC^^: strange, update-grub reported found iso
<EriC^^> hmm tried a debian iso
<EriC^^> and a tinycore first didnt work
<TJ-> EriC^^: http://paste.ubuntu.com/12963315/
<Ben64> what
<Ben64> !enter is gone
<Ben64> why
<TJ-> yeah, I noticed that a while ago, annoying
<Ben64> i miss !work too
<wileee> drone does the 5 post ignore
<TJ-> Weren't those removed because the IRC Council decided they were too impersonal
<Ben64> yeah i think, but they were fun
<TJ-> I agree
<EriC^^> oh
<EriC^^> thanks TJ-
 * wileee dreams of an algorithm that covers this automatically, no personal spanking, just the bot
<Ben64> i miss floodbots too
<EriC^^> TJ-: installed grub-imageboot , copied an iso to /boot/images and it picks it up
<EriC^^> it's so cool
<TJ-> I think so too
<TJ-> If I put all my ISO images there, sym-link that to the virtual machine ISO directory, I can use them for both bare metal boot tests, and the VMs
<TJ-> lrs is suffering all for Bluetooth :)
<wileee> heh I use grml here, a multiboot usb, with supergrub amongst others, I'm in no matter what if open-able
<TJ-> I wish grub-core could do mountpoints!
<TJ-> wileee: I do a lot of daily ISO testing, and custom ISOs I'm developing, so making it streamlined with grub-imageboot will save me a lot of 'faffing' about
<wileee> TJ-, I will have to look at it more, I had not noticed it before, having usable tools, but goggled it immediately of course
<EriC^^> TJ-: i wonder how it works, it's not like the grub iso booting guide where it makes it a loop and then uses the stuff as usual, it has linux16 /boot/memdisk iso, and then initrd /path/to/iso
<wileee> I messed with custom iso's out of curiosity but really I'm short of the skills in the end
<TJ-> EriC^^: see "man grub-mkstandalone"
<EriC^^> ok thanks
<wileee> mmmm nothing like blah blah to make me wince
<wileee> we hardly communicate when we think we understand each other
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-10-24
<wafflejock> daftykins, if you see this and get back on try pinging me in the support channel still got that video problem, tried with the latest kernel too and see it's using the i915 from the 4.9 kernel but still no luck
<Bashing-om> wafflejock: daftykins is still under exile in the support channel :(
<wafflejock> Bashing-om, ah thanks for the heads up okay well daftykins ping me here then if you see this and have any ideas what else to dig into
<ducasse> morning all
<ilmaisin> hi
<ilmaisin> would it be possible for some developer to take a look on this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/1439771
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1439771 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "wpa_supplicant[874]: dbus: Failed to construct signal after 'suspend'" [Medium,Confirmed]
<ilmaisin> it's quite important as it does seem to apply to a wide range of hardware
<lordievader> Good morning
<ilmaisin> it looks like fixing bugs is not high priority for ubunutu
<ducasse> ilmaisin: this is the wrong place to ask, you might want to try somewhere like #ubuntu-devel
<ilmaisin> ducasse: okay, thanks
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<daftykins> hi all \o
<EriC^^> hi daftykins
<EriC^^> o/
<daftykins> :D what's new EriC^^ ?
<EriC^^> not much
<EriC^^> reading up on how to paint right now
<EriC^^> i want to paint the living room
<EriC^^> :D
<EriC^^> what about you?
<EriC^^> damn i'm too hungry for this right now
<daftykins> haha neat
<daftykins> well i just put 3 smartphones up for sale last night and sold the first one already :O
<daftykins> one of my screen repair successes :>
<Ben64> what phone and which are left
<EriC^^> cool
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> afty
<pauljw> o/
<daftykins> how goes it sir?
<pauljw> doing fine, you?
<daftykins> yeah good :) put up some phones last night for sale and got rid of one already!
<daftykins> Ben64: not sure if my replies got through btw, since Wilhelm died - Nexus 5 32GB and a HTC One X+ 64GB are what i have left
<daftykins> sold a Samsung Galaxy S3 16GB this morn
<pauljw> :)
<daftykins> oh i should call a telco and see if they still take old ones for recycling, got a tonne of junk age dumphones and mildly educated phones that can go
<daftykins> alrighty i should consider some other activities for the day, later folks \o
<pauljw> l8er
<BluesKaj> 'Morniing pauljw, notice how some vpn servers are recognized by IRC and others are masked
<pauljw> i've noticed that
<BluesKaj> PIA is a Freenode supporter, whether they do it with money or other methods seems to be a secret
<pauljw> :)
<BluesKaj> or other means would probly fit
<pauljw> i'm happy that they do support it, how doesn't matter to me, so long as i can connect while using vpn.
<pauljw> sites that block vpn tick me off
<BluesKaj> netflix is blocking some vpns the Canadians use to access programs that aren't available here...I checked out the US netflix programming and it still didn't do much for me  ;-)
<BluesKaj> but I'm an old fogey and alot of stuff on regular tv isn't my cuppa tea either
<pauljw> i know that's the excuse they're using, people just need to stop using or buying any form of music or movies for six months and all this would miraculously disappear.  they think they're losing money to illicit use of their material now?  let em go 6mos with zero income and see how they act towards their customers.
<pauljw> i don't care for much of what's on tv, that's why i am always online.  and i listen to my collection of CDs that i paid for.
<BluesKaj> well, it 's the rights to to different shows that various countries don't have, an antiquated legality in thei day and age
<BluesKaj> this
<pauljw> i agree
<pauljw> but many or most of these regulations are the direct result of industry lobbying and if the industry's bottom line were seriously impacted, they'd fix the problem.
<BluesKaj> it's just plain old greed setup by filmakers' lawyers and Congress in the US ,and Parliament in other countries 100yrs ago
<BluesKaj> lawyers is operative word
<pauljw> yep
<BluesKaj> speaking of cds , I noticed some the flac files I compressed from  collection sound crappy, so I rekonverted them to wav and the sound is a bit better ...less proicessing I guess.
<pauljw> interesting, i use ogg here.
<BluesKaj> oops reconverted even ...the kde influence is becoming embedded in me
<pauljw> heheh
<BluesKaj> think i'll reinstall my old maudio soundcard. I used to be a pita to switch audio outputs in VLC to watch movies due to my obsession with using the correct digital audio formats available, but now with kodi that problem is solved
<pauljw> nice
<BluesKaj> never really cared for the the "aidio suite" all in one appraoch to media , but after setting up and experimenting with kodi I became favorably impressed with it's capabilities and ease of use ...not totally convinced yet but it looks promising
<BluesKaj> audio suite
<BluesKaj> media suite is a better term
<pauljw> i know you've been messing around with it for a while, are you using your pi to run it?  i'm close to going that route here simply because the pi fascinates me and a media center would be a practical excuse to buy one.
<pauljw> i just want a low power, fanless setup for the living room or i could use a desktop in the basement and run a cable to the living room... :)
<BluesKaj> pauljw, kodi works well on the rpi3...but my wifi isn't up to handling full bown DD or DTS  and Hidef video simultaneously from my media server,...think a proper ethernet connection would probly work better
<pauljw> good to hear, ya, i imagine that ethernet would be best.
<BluesKaj> my router might not be upt to the wifi task
<pauljw> i stream bluetooth from my laptop to my stereo and that works great, but that's nothing like a movie.
<BluesKaj> but I have kodi on my media server directly connected to our tv for  the full movie experience. I don't notice any noise from the pc during movies etc
<BluesKaj> connected to our tv and audio system
<BluesKaj> but i think you're right about using ethernet instead of wifi if possible
<EriC^^> hey Bashing-om :D
<Bashing-om> My man ! EriC^^ Hoz eric in Beruit ?
<EriC^^> good good :D
<EriC^^> yourself?
<Bashing-om> Oh good for the most part .. Fighting with new gear on old hardware . Awaiting a replacement Bios chip see if then I can use the new nVidia GT 710 card and a Smasung SSD . It's been UnFun trying to get them to work .
<EriC^^> aha
<EriC^^> the bios doesn't like the ssd and nvidia?
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: Nope .. the card has no support in 14.04 (but the mesa driver is fine here ) .. freezes with nouveau in 16.04 .. and the SSD produces ATA errors when booting . Sure hope the newer version of Bios helps .
<BluesKaj> Bashing-om, odd I have samsung evo 850 ssd and nvidia 8400gs here on an 8yrold pc and it all works
<Bashing-om> BluesKaj: I had expected it all to just work ! .. running a 2007 dual core Athlon who's bios is 5 versions behind ( if it works do not fix it !) ..
<EriC^^> Bashing-om: cool, when do you receive it?
<Bashing-om> rtStill awaiting the Bios chip .. choose to replace rather than flash present chip .. easier and safer !
<BluesKaj> Bashing-om, wow, 5 versions behind ..understood, sounds like you have a grip on the problem at least :-)
<Bashing-om> BluesKaj: Oh just a proces to get the hardware to interface . I really do not want to have to discard this ole box .. kinda fond of it . Besides, I am cheap and do not want to afford the monies and time to build another box :)
<BluesKaj> Bashing-om, I read you loud and clear. gonna make this old pc run untill it gives up the ghost as well
<Bashing-om> Well, Yeah ! ... I installed 16.04 some time back prior to changing the graphic's card .. and was plased that this ole system even ran 16.04 ! Meant I was good 'til at least the year 2021 .... But but but the system just pukes on the new mVidia card .
<Bashing-om> pleased*
<BluesKaj> Bashing-om, did you have to replace your PSU for the new card, some require a power increase over the std PSUs that come with pcs
<Bashing-om> BluesKaj: No .. I have a 750 watt PS ( over provisioned for the future when I built this box ) .
<BluesKaj>  cool
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> i just got given some of the devil's hardware, an iPad 2 free o0
<EriC^^> lol
<EriC^^> i got screwed on the iphone
<BluesKaj> ok, a non std box ...often thought of building one, but my electronixs experience is mostly with audio kits etc, a bit leary about tackling a pc
<EriC^^> i wanted the 6s since half a year, and i thought i'll wait for the 7 cause it's almost out, then got the samsung when the battery was starting to inflate
<EriC^^> and then the iphone 7 came out, and here they want $1200 or so for the jet black one!
<EriC^^> so i'm waiting now
<daftykins> BluesKaj: yeah like with many things it's not even the 'lego' of putting it together but knowing all the gubbins to sort it out when it doesn't behave :D
<daftykins> EriC^^: ouch, although i've already seen articles of that devilspawn device losing its' markings to cases XD
<EriC^^> losing its' markings to cases?
<EriC^^> what's that mean? :D
<daftykins> yep all the logos on the back
<BluesKaj> daftykins, or doing a lot of research before ordering
<EriC^^> oh
<daftykins> you can't go too far wrong these days with parts :>
<Bashing-om> BluesKaj: Instructions are generally provided and with care can be followed . Just many times tedious and an act of devotion .
<EriC^^> i built a pc with my dad when i was about 16 i think
<EriC^^> it wasn't difficult (the guy had wrote the instructions on a piece of paper though)
<BluesKaj> Bashing-om, daftykins, ok that sounds encouraging
<Bashing-om> Just download th manual for your current motherboard. you will see the instructions ( wiring) are prerry thorough .
<Bashing-om> pretty*
<daftykins> i wouldn't buy AMD though.
<BluesKaj> no defintely intel i5 cpu at a minimum and nvidia gpu
<daftykins> new generation out in the new year of course (Kaby Lake 7xxx)
<BluesKaj> learned my lesson with amd
<BluesKaj> well, I'm cheap, don't overkill for what i do on a pc
<BluesKaj> not a gamer
<Bashing-om> What's wrong with AMD ??.. the are 2nd, and have to try harder and build better . IMHO .
<BluesKaj> Bashing-om, it's mostly their graphics aren't as linux friendly , driverwise
<daftykins> Bashing-om: what BluesKaj said but also they're miles behind, the new Zen chips might finally compete though
<daftykins> current AMDs on the desktop with a discrete graphics card is fine if you're on a real budget, but i tend to tell people they should do it once and do it right instead of giving into budget concerns
<BluesKaj> my laptop has an I3 cpu and it's wicked fast vs my desktop, even with a spinner hdd
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Was look'n - maybe have to replace this mother board - .. will be $500 USD for the new 8 core AMD board .
<BluesKaj> ok  bbl...local news
<daftykins> Bashing-om: lol ouch, that's a whole new build with 8 to 16GB RAM cost
<Bashing-om> daftykins: UH Huh .. But If that board were instaled be good for several years .. what ever the future might hold ( the time I bet is comming that 64 Gigs of ram will not be enough ) .
<daftykins> did you mean $50?
<daftykins> because 500 i would not even consider it :>
<EriC^^> 8 core or 8 thread?
 * EriC^^ core fetish
<Bashing-om> Well .. the board, CPU, and ram .. $500 all told .
<Bashing-om> But ! For what I do now-a-days ... this duial core does me well .. now if only I can get the nVidia card and the SSD to integrate well .
<daftykins> oh i see, thought you meant board only and the existing kit
<daftykins> AMDs are a bit weird so it's more like 8 x 0.5 than 8 core :D
<Bashing-om> I have looked just a bit at intel also ..just that I am the more familiar, and therefore the more comfortable, with AMD .
<daftykins> i used to be the same, but i abandoned them after the Athlon64 and never looked back
<daftykins> intel: chipsets that work
<daftykins> maybe not so much when it comes to on-CPU graphics in Linux, what with Linux being Linux ;)
<Bashing-om> Well, like you, I do have a preference for PCI graphic's cards . I do like options options options.
<ducasse> hi guys and bots
 * Bashing-om recognizes one ducasse // still up and functional ?
<ducasse> yes, just finishing up all i needed to get done today, working on some translations tomorrow.
<Bashing-om> You are a good man . Do what we can for our operating system ecosystem of choice :)
<ducasse> i can't code, so i do translation into norwegian for a couple of projects. new claws mail coming next month, so that's what i'm doing tomorrow. :)
<ducasse> (well, i _can_ code a little, but i wouldn't want to share it)
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> i debated that once
<daftykins> maybe i can make a Guernsey specific version, but then i was horrified how my bug about the wrong keyboard region took 8 years to be solved
<daftykins> so i was not best impressed at FOSS at the time ;)
<Bashing-om> Me. I devote the majority of my time to helping .. with the vindication that I help myself first .. in this for what I can learn :)
<ducasse> i filed a fedora bug (i've only tested it briefly in a vm, but found a bug) about 3 years ago, still don't think it's been fixed :)
<daftykins> heh, was it a showstopper?
<ducasse> no, far from - mostly cosmetic. i get bug triage, but it would probably have been a one-line fix.
<Bashing-om> No showstoppers for me, if the system ain't got the ram, ain't got the CPU power -- lubuntu ->> DSL here it comes !
<ducasse> as for fedora i just didn't really like it. these days i'm entertaining the idea of putting arch on my laptop...
<EriC^^> "the good thing in Lunix platform that your system is protected from pirates and spies"
<EriC^^> this is priceless
<daftykins> uh oh, got an #ubuntu special case on the go?
<EriC^^> ahoi me mates :D
<ducasse> 'it is based on command shells'
<ducasse> wow
<ducasse> aaaand matrix quotes :D
<EriC^^> daftykins: somebody new joined the channel and another person is explaining the lunix ways
<daftykins> i think Sylvester Stallone said those are kept beside the three sea shells
<daftykins> ah right :) blind leading the blind style
<EriC^^> "if you want to go to the hole of rabit you have to follow me"
<EriC^^> lol
<daftykins> if you give it 5 minutes and shout "CHANGE PLACES!" all hell with break loose
<daftykins> ;)
<EriC^^> had to paste that one
<Bashing-om> For some reason the nick Kaddouri rings a bad bell from the past .
<daftykins> i used to get such bell rings, i figure it's more #ubuntu PTSD ;)
<Bashing-om> Well possible that PTSD - gives the benefit of the doubt .
<ducasse> my first couple of jobs were tech support, i still get flashbacks and nightmares :)
<ducasse> "there's only two jobs that call their customers 'users'" :)
 * daftykins blinks
<daftykins> what's the second?
<ducasse> drug dealing.
<daftykins> hahaha
<Bashing-om> Back in the day .. SPC ( RailRoad) became SPRINT. I was a technician and one of the chores that was shared was customer support .. YUK ! when the duty fell to me .
<ducasse> some questions just make you want to go and smack them in the face, it's the same in #ubuntu.
<daftykins> oof!
<ducasse> "did you even *consider* googling this first?"
<Bashing-om> I tend to be very helpful .. so long as the 'user' is also trying to help themselves . I do recall the struggle to become PC aware .
<daftykins> have you folks noticed that the trend with the youngsters is to claim to have been "googling for hours" ?
<ducasse> it's just that some people don't _want_ to learn, they just want the fix, and next time they've got the same problem they're going to come back and ask again.
<daftykins> and i swear it's a straight up lie every time ;)
<ducasse> +1
<daftykins> ducasse: yep i think that's what these supposed 'digital native' millennials are becoming
<daftykins> older folks claim that the youngsters are getting better with tech, but i know it's the opposite :>
<ducasse> absolutely, they are just as dumb as their parents >:-)
<Bashing-om> Andddd .. I have other things I could be doing  .. patience then wears thin if I think I being lied to .. or the end user not putting forth the effort that it does take .
<daftykins> *nod* i needed to learn to walk away a bit better :>
<Bashing-om> Hey, I do remember a slide rule .. when was the last time I picked one up ?
<ducasse> here's a good example:
<ducasse> 14:12 <codfection> its too much to read. can you please tell me what specific do I need to fix
<daftykins> yep that's an ignore right there, in fact that gives me ringing bells of a troll, too
<daftykins> i definitely think it's about this time of year they start coming in from the summer
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Yeah ! I do recall that ^ one ! .. did I ever loose interest quick !
<ducasse> that particular guy is going into one channel to get a problem fixed, and immediately jumps to another channel to have someone there fix his next problem.
<daftykins> sounds about right!
<ducasse> i swear he's never googled anything in his life.
<daftykins> surprised it isn't cross-posting the first ;)
<daftykins> webchat user too?
<ducasse> never checked, but actually think he's said he uses weechat but doesn't like it because it's too 'complicated'
<daftykins> usually the user's host would be weechat@blah if it were
<daftykins> my money was going to be on webchat
<ducasse> he's offline now anyway, so i can't check.
<ducasse> still, he's the type of user that needs to be told to try sorting things out himself first. oh, and he _does_ often crosspost :)
<daftykins> those need the cannon -> sun treatment
<Bashing-om> OK. slow .. nap time ! .. be bck in a spell .
<daftykins> \o enjoy
<Bashing-om> back*
<ducasse> i need to go to bed soon myself, my eyes are getting tired.
<BluesKaj> ducasse, that user is well known for his demanding attitude , most support chats are aware pf his tactics
<daftykins> shame the ops are inactive as always ;)
<ducasse> BluesKaj: ok, thanks for the warning. i'm shutting down soon anyway.
<BluesKaj> ducasse, right, sleep well :-)
<ducasse> thanks :)
<daftykins> \o nn
<ducasse> daftykins: ttyl
<pauljw> biab
<Bashing-om> Back on duty .. and all caught up .
<daftykins> \o
<Bashing-om> daftykins: ty .. Got back in time for it to slow down once more .
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> ideal timing
<pauljw> bbl, dinner time
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-10-25
<ducasse> morning all
<EriC^^> morning ducasse :)
<ducasse> hey EriC^^ - how are you today?
<EriC^^> good thanks you?
<ducasse> fine, thanks - still waking up :)
<EriC^^> same here :)
<EriC^^> wow 2071 bad sectors
<EriC^^> O.o
<ducasse> dead as a dodo, that drive.
<EriC^^> :D
<BluesKaj> Hi all
<BluesKaj> hey guys, thought I'd let you know about a script that uses dns to blaock ads ..no need for adblock on your browser , check this out :  http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/adblock-everywhere-raspberry-pi-hole-way/
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<ducasse> \o
<EriC^^> hey guys
<ducasse> hi EriC^^
<Bashing-om> Here I be again - all rested up and ready to try and go at it again :) Hoz our neighborhood ?
<daftykins> yay \o/ welcome back
<Bashing-om> It is - IMO - a blessing to be here . Good day daftykins  ?
<daftykins> yep thanks! second phone sold today, so slowly thinning out the stock :)
<Bashing-om> :) The good thing about living on a Island ( or in a small community ) is that every one knows very ones amd knows where to get it .
<daftykins> thankfully it's not quite that bad here, but there's definitely a 1 degree of separation thing going on
<Bashing-om> Uh Huh .. And I was never prepared to participate in that other 1 degree . It does not enter in what I can control .
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> just nipping down a restaurant, back later :)
<EriC^^> finally took a couple night pics daftykins ducasse
<EriC^^> https://www.flickr.com/photos/148558575@N05/shares/8K1f19/'
<EriC^^> typo, https://www.flickr.com/photos/148558575@N05/shares/8K1f19/
<Bashing-om> !repository
<ubot5`> The packages in Ubuntu are divided into several sections. More information at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecommendedSources for the recommended way to set up your repositories.
<daftykins> EriC^^: nice!
<daftykins> what's the big dark diagonal line i see in the last shot?
<nicomachus> looks like powerlines maybe?
<daftykins> strikes me as sea level, possibly a breakwater?
<daftykins> hrmm just fired up this old file server and seem to have lost 2 of the 8 disks since last power on XD two degraded
<daftykins> data doesn't matter, just considering seeing the disks slowly pop
<pauljw> :)
<daftykins> currently 3% rebuilding!
<daftykins> i only fired it up to wipe another old 250GB SATA disk i have to add to my donations pile :>
<pauljw> i did my best "daftykins" imitation today, replaced an lcd, upgraded from 1 to 2GB RAM and swapped out a win drive for an ubuntu 250G drive.  this was an old Acer AspireOne netbook.
<ubot5`> Error: Ubuntu bug 250 could not be found
<daftykins> oh no a netbook! :D
<daftykins> ah i'm proud of you sir, lots of work there
<daftykins> any dramas with the process?
<pauljw> :D
<pauljw> no, it went quite smoothly other than not noticing the access door had hooks on one edge, not snaps, so i had to take it back off and slide the hooks in place.
<pauljw> i was most concerned about the lcd having never messed with one, that took about 10 minutes to replace.
<wafflejock> pauljw, yeah they are surprisingly easy most of the time, hinges/cable routing aside
<daftykins> ah har, big enough to have screws in perhaps?
<daftykins> oh hey wafflejock o/
<wafflejock> hey daftykins
<wafflejock> still no luck on the HDMI and I have to face palm thought the thing had a display port out too but it doesn't that's on my desktop card where the HDMI is fine
<pauljw> yes, once the cover gets unsnapped, there are 4 screws
<daftykins> wafflejock: it sounds nuts but did you consider another cable?
<wafflejock> I went as far as grabbing the latest drm-intel-nightly and got that to build and run through some miracle but didn't help... I did find a hdmi.c file in there that seems to do the HDMI magic but I don't understand the standard or any of it well enough to debug
<wafflejock> daftykins, yeah well using this cable on other computers I haven't tried another with that computer though
<daftykins> nah if stock 'buntu doesn't work, there's more drama at play
<wafflejock> it's worth a shot I tried everything else :)
<daftykins> yeah i've been surprised before
<wafflejock> daftykins, well I just got a ton of strange results
<wafflejock> daftykins, so I tried with another HDMI cable, same deal
<wafflejock> I tried with a HDMI on the computer -> DVI on the monitor and that seemed to look fine, so I tried with one of the HDMI -> HDMI again and it was broken, back to the HDMI -> DVI still broken... unplug and replug VGA and it works with the HDMI->DVI, tried doing the same with the HDMI straight through but stays crazy looking regardless with 2 hdmi cables
<wafflejock> long story short if I have the HDMI->DVI and I do some voodoo it actually works with 2 displays looking totally fine.... not sure I can call that solved really but it's some sort of clue
<daftykins> is that with some kind of adapter, or a cable that's solely HDMI on one end and DVI at the other?
<wafflejock> yeah just 1 cable with different ends
<daftykins> i'd possibly shine a light in at the HDMI connector on yonder laptop and see whether anything looks quirky
<wafflejock> yeah I may take it apart and see if anything looks funky around how the port is soldered on the board but doesn't seem to react at all to wiggling when it's working or not working it's "stable" in the state it's in
<wafflejock> seems like something strange happens maybe with monitor detection or something, basically unplugging and replugging the VGA while the HDMI -> DVI is in seems to effect it at least in a few tries
<daftykins> i was just thinking the pins on the tiny little sandwich in the middle of the socket
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-10-26
<daftykins> if it were me i'd take the disk out and install Windows on a spare, see if it misbehaves too
<daftykins> probably easier than disassembly :D
<wafflejock> well actually I know this works fine with HDMI->HDMI on 14.04 cause I did test that with a live flash drive to make sure it was something that broke when I went to 16.04
<wafflejock> I may try to diff the hdmi.c file I was looking at with the one that would have been in there for the release of 14.04.4 or 5 vs 16.04 but could be changes somewhere else in the stack too not directly related
<wafflejock> daftykins, I don't think I have a Windows install disc around either still need to pay them for the 1 win 10 I have installed on my desktop, still have the annoying watermark on there, but don't think I kept the .iso or drive I used around
<wafflejock> it's all good I've just gotten my desktop setup for work stuff so I can have the dual monitors still and can fiddle around with the laptop when I've got some time to try things out
<daftykins> wafflejock: free download from their win10 pages.
<daftykins> direct ISO if you browse there from Linux iirc
<wafflejock> daftykins, eh yeah but 14.04 iso I already have shows that it works I can try it again but so far has consistently worked with the HDMI cables, I actually found a bug here https://bugs.freedesktop.org/buglist.cgi?component=DRM%2FIntel&product=DRI&resolution=--- when I was digging into this a few days ago where someone had a similar screenshot to what i was seeing but there wasn't any resolution on it yet
<wafflejock> daftykins, that's how I got it on my desktop though I just downloaded the iso from MS but haven't activated it yet
<wafflejock> thanks for pointing it out though
<daftykins> oh i'd forgotten about 14.04.
<EriC^^> hey daftykins
<EriC^^> those are powerlines :D
<daftykins> daym!
<EriC^^> lol
<EriC^^> lots of those here :D
<daftykins> daym: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/10/25/did_apple_leak_new_macbook_pro_in_system_update/
<Bashing-om> Heber Springs, AR: Temp: 57 F (14 C) ~ Mostly Cloudy ~ Humidity: 100% ~ Observed: Tue 25, 21:55
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> !dirtycow
<lotuspsychje> https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-protect-your-server-against-the-dirty-cow-linux-vulnerability
<lotuspsychje> dax: maybe a trigger if we find right usn?
<lotuspsychje> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/2016/CVE-2016-5195.html
<ducasse> morning all
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Just in time .. be seeing my back side soon .
<ducasse> how are you Bashing-om? everything good?
<Bashing-om> ducasse: All good .. slow on the channel right now . Ya got time for nother cuppa .
<ducasse> Bashing-om: yes, drinking tea and browsing through my backlog :)
<Bashing-om> Uh huh .. good morn'n - see what can be translated for the good of your compatriots .
<ducasse> Bashing-om: almost done now, might look for one more project.
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Plenty of them around for those who look and have the abiity :)
<ducasse> Bashing-om: i know, i'd prefer it to be something i actually use, though. we'll see, sure i'll find something.
<jimmy_> oooo
<jimmy_> this is my first time using irc woohoo
<Bashing-om> well, ya found a good place .. to exercise intelligence .
<popey> Welcome to 1988
<jimmy_> haha
<Bashing-om> Patience expended , outa here 'till the morrow .
<BluesKaj> Hi Folks
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-10-27
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> Hey lotuspsychje ; WB ..
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om , hows the freezes going?
<Bashing-om> Awautung the arrival of a updated Bios chip .. then we see what the story is .
<lotuspsychje> kk
<Bashing-om> awaiting*
<lotuspsychje> ive been trying lubuntu/xubuntu xenial on old acer laptop again, no dice..;then only win7 wants it
<Bashing-om> how old ? efi ?
<lotuspsychje> weird story about lightweight
<lotuspsychje> bios, acer aspire..something
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Maybe some hints here : https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2298380&page=2&p=13403062#post13403062 .
<lotuspsychje> tnx lookin
<Bashing-om> Maybe a case of vendor lock-in .. can be a pain to work-a-round
<lotuspsychje> well its a box just to return to an owner, so not very important to run linux anyway
<Bashing-om> Hey .. I am of the mind set that every box should have linux running on it :)
<lotuspsychje> yeah me also, but this box refuses just
<lotuspsychje> xubuntu installed, but didnt ever load to desktop
<Bashing-om> tell the DSDY this is a Windows machine  "sudo strings /sys/firmware/acpi/tables/DSDT | grep -i windows" >> GRUB boot menu -> "acpi_osi=Windows 2013"  (including double-quotations) ??
<lotuspsychje> good idea
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: We lie like a big dog .. but I have known of acer to buy it .
<Bashing-om> Hey .. done for this session .. see yall .. later .
<ducasse> morning all
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<daftykins> !info nginx trusty
<ubot5`> nginx (source: nginx): small, powerful, scalable web/proxy server. In component main, is optional. Version 1.4.6-1ubuntu3.6 (trusty), package size 5 kB, installed size 94 kB
<daftykins> anyone know who to ask to resolve an editing issue on the wiki? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MactelSupportTeam/CommunityHelpPages
<daftykins> !channels
<ubot5`> A list of official Ubuntu IRC channels, as well as IRC clients for Ubuntu, can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat - For a general list of !freenode channels, see http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#channellist and !alis - See also !Guidelines
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Due to DOS'n .. we got to register now, See: https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2338744 .
<daftykins> Bashing-om: yeah i'm logged in
<daftykins> oh i see
<Bashing-om> daftykins: I have not had to jump through the hoops to gain the rights, as my "membership" takes care of my access to the wikies .
<daftykins> ah i see
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-10-28
<ducasse> morning!
<BobbyJr> Good morning
<BluesKaj> Howdy all
<wafflejock> Hi BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> Hey wafflejock
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<ducasse> \o pauljw
<pauljw> o/ hey ducasse
<ducasse> what's up? all good?
<pauljw> yeah, all good, thanks. you?
<ducasse> same, thanks. trying to get some stuff finished so i've got the weekend clear :)
<pauljw> :)
<BluesKaj> Hi ducasse, pauljw
<pauljw> hey BluesKaj
<ducasse> \o BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> cold here last night , -8C/18*F
<BluesKaj> winter is creeping up on us
<ducasse> snowed here last night :(
<daftykins> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/10/28/lenovo_downward_dogs_with_yoga_bios_update_supporting_linux_installs/
<daftykins> o/
<brunch875> It seems that my skype account has been compromised
<brunch875> but I haven't used skype for ages :D
<brunch875> I wonder if this has anything to do with the skype alpha for linux
<daftykins> can't see why you would make that connection
<daftykins> perhaps you use a service that got 'hacked' with a similar/same password
<Maxaroth> hi
<daftykins> \o
<Maxaroth> what version do you use?
<daftykins> all the cool kids use LTS
<daftykins> i only touch it on server though.
<Maxaroth> hmm i am using 16.10
<xXEoflaOEXx> I am using 17.04 Development branch
<Maxaroth> hello xXEoflaOEXx
<xXEoflaOEXx> Maxaroth: hi
<Maxaroth> do you have any experience with kylin
<xXEoflaOEXx> Maxaroth: I am not a Chinese people so no
<Maxaroth> you dont have to be chinese to use it
<daftykins> is there a reason you ask?
<xXEoflaOEXx> Maxaroth: Also I do not use it
<Maxaroth> ya cuz i used to use it on a laptop but it broke and nopw i am trying to use it on my desktop and it is bugging out
<Maxaroth> not even usable
<daftykins> well, this is not the support channel, so if you have some problems you need to ask about them in #ubuntu
<daftykins> !flavours
<ubot5`> Recognized Ubuntu flavors build on Ubuntu and provide a different user experience out of the box. They are supported both in #ubuntu and in their flavor channel. The current list is: !Edubuntu, !Ubuntu-GNOME, !Kubuntu, Ubuntu !Kylin, !Lubuntu, !Mythbuntu, Ubuntu !Studio, !Xubuntu, and Ubuntu !MATE
<daftykins> explain that you are using ubuntu kylin on a desktop and describe your problems
<xXEoflaOEXx> and post it to #ubuntu because this is for discussion and not for support
<daftykins> i already said that
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-10-29
<daftykins> !info linux-generic
<ubot5`> linux-generic (source: linux-meta): Complete Generic Linux kernel and headers. In component main, is optional. Version 4.4.0.45.48 (xenial), package size 1 kB, installed size 12 kB
<daftykins> !info linux-generic yakkety
<ubot5`> linux-generic (source: linux-meta): Complete Generic Linux kernel and headers. In component main, is optional. Version 4.8.0.26.35 (yakkety), package size 1 kB, installed size 12 kB
<R13ose> Bashing-om: I am here
<daftykins> hi
<R13ose> hi, I was the one with the graphics problem
<daftykins> ah har
<Bashing-om> R13ose: K ..  Like I say the btter responses to your grahics's issue will be in the main channel . Here is "discussion" of on-going things .
<R13ose> Seems everyone is stuck
<Bashing-om> better*
<daftykins> i was playing along from home, curious what make + model system it is and whether the live session behaved differently?
<daftykins> "dmesg | nc termbin.com 9999" on a fresh boot would be handy
<R13ose> well I don't want to get into the live session
<daftykins> there a particular reason for that?
<R13ose> I don't want to restart at the moment
<R13ose> http://termbin.com/ryat
<daftykins> ok an acer aspire
<Bashing-om> daftykins: R13ose ouch ! Acer with vendor lockin to Windows ??
<daftykins> i see v5-572 - but does it have any letters after, R13ose ?
<R13ose> I deleted Windows
<daftykins> might either be on the hinge of the screen or on a label underneath
<daftykins> acer have a G, a P and a PG
<R13ose> daftykins: I don't think there are any letters
<daftykins> ok lets see
<daftykins> so you're on BIOS 2.09 and their latest is 2.10 which fixes something completely irrelevant
<daftykins> i think 16.10 is a bad choice for that machine personally
<daftykins> and your options are dwindling
<daftykins> did you boot to 'try' mode before installing? just curious whether it behaved at all before installation
<R13ose> model # is zrk
<Bashing-om> daftykins: change the DSDT table ? ' sudo strings /sys/firmware/acpi/tables/DSDT | grep -i windows ' to know the options ??
<R13ose> daftykins: some issue always on KDE.  I don't think this happened when I was using gnome.
<daftykins> well you have one of the very problematic families of laptop for Linux, as it goes
<daftykins> Bashing-om: yeah could be worth a go :)
<R13ose> should I try that what Bashing-om said?
<daftykins> yes
<Bashing-om> R13ose: is a shot .. amd maybe not too long of one ^^ .
<R13ose> http://pastebin.com/R0jSrW1r
<daftykins> Bashing-om: i don't recall the rest, 'Windows 2012' it is i guess :)
<Bashing-om> R13ose: daftykins 2012 .. maybe NOW  a long shot . R13ose, To test you woild have to reboot into grub to alter the setting .
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Yeah - "acpi_osi=Windows 2012" on the kernel command line .
<R13ose> what does that mean?
<daftykins> "boot pretending to be this OS and use its' ACPI data"
<R13ose> meaning?
<daftykins> hmm a full explanation would take longer than just trying it really :/
<daftykins> essentially sometimes Linux doesn't work so well because laptop manufacturers spend more time and effort making Windows power management work properly
<daftykins> so the OS lacks the information it could benefit from to run properly
<R13ose> lets try this.
<Bashing-om> R13ose: ACPI == Advanced Configuration and Power Interface. It provides a way for the PC firmware (UEFI/BIOS) to declare to an Operating System how to control its platform-specific hardware.  ACPI provides several in-firmware 'tables'. One such is the Differentiated Services Description Table (DSDT). This actually contains executable code in a special ACPI 'language' which the OS has to execute. Rather like Java and its Virtual Machine. 
<R13ose> how do I do this when I restart?
<daftykins> you hold left shift just before the disk is about to be read from in a normal boot - still i think to get GRUB to come up
<daftykins> anywho i will let Bashing-om do this bit as i have a date with some food, back shortly :>
<Bashing-om> hold down Shift to get the GRUB boot menu. highlight the default entry, press 'E' to edit it, navigate to the line starting "linux ..." ... and add to the end the string (including double-quotations) "acpi_osi=Windows 2013"   - then press Ctrl+X or F10hold down Shift to get the GRUB boot menu. highlight the default entry, press 'E' to edit it, navigate to the line starting "linux ..." ... and add to the end the string (including double-q
<Bashing-om> 2013/2012** // we want 2012 .
<R13ose> Bashing-om: okay 2012 but do I need the quotes?
<Bashing-om> smoke break .. smokers draw one . // R13ose Yes the quotes are needed . That silly space that Windows uses .
<R13ose> brb
<R13ose> back
<R13ose> how do I make sure everything is correct?
<Bashing-om> R13ose: Yhat was qyuck .. any the verdict is ?
<daftykins> re-run "dmesg | nc termbin.com 9999"
<R13ose> Bashing-om: This doesn't happen all the time so I have to wait.
<R13ose> http://termbin.com/98np
<daftykins> not sure if there should've been spaces either side of = as there are there
<daftykins> "acpi_osi=Windows 2012" vs. "acpi_osi = Windows 2012"
<R13ose> well let me know what to do and I will restart again and fix if wrong.
<daftykins> did you type it like my first or second?
<R13ose> second
<daftykins> Bashing-om: what do you think?
<R13ose> Bashing-om: wrote "acpi_osi=Windows 2013" so maybe I did this wrong
<daftykins> my instinct says no spaces, mmm
<R13ose> which I want to make sure before I restart again
<Bashing-om> daftykins: R13ose boot line looks good to me . and "  0.000000] Reserving Intel graphics memory at 0x00000000aba00000-0x00000000af9fffff ' is an encouraging sign .
<R13ose> Bashing-om: meaning?
<Bashing-om> R13ose: entered on the grub boot line as - "acpi_osi=Windows 2012" - those quotes are needed because of the space between Windows and 2012 .
<daftykins> turns out he entered it with spaces either side = though, not sure if that's good
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Ouch ,, did not see that of " = " /nope that ain't good . but what is still look'n good " 0.207700] vgaarb: bridge control possible 0000:00:02.0 " .
<R13ose> Do I have to change this?
<R13ose> I will do acpi_osi=Windows 2012 now, if both of you think that is good
<daftykins> yep :)
<R13ose> yep as in?
<daftykins> change it
<R13ose> brb
<Bashing-om> R13ose: Vjange it , daftykins Is this " 2.403692] fbcon: inteldrmfb (fb0) is primary device " saying it is not going to load the Intel driver ??
<daftykins> don't think so
<Bashing-om> daftykins: OR is this saying Intel driver is loaded " 3.418684] i915 0000:00:02.0: fb0: inteldrmfb frame buffer device " ?
<daftykins> earlier i did a search through the first dmesg paste for "i915" and "drm" and couldn't find any obvious issues, we might have to see another Xorg.0.log
<daftykins> it's definitely a model sold with nvidia configurations, whether it is one or not :)
<R13ose> back.  http://termbin.com/mj4m
<daftykins> yep that looks better
<daftykins> be interesting what Xorg's log says now, i think it's "pastebinit ~/.local/xorg/log/Xorg.0.log" but i can't remember
<Bashing-om> R13ose: daftykins We have lift off ! " 1.896599] [drm] Initialized i915 1.6.0 20160711 for 0000:00:02.0 on minor 0 " .
<daftykins> :O
<R13ose> the text didn't save in the grub
<R13ose> daftykins: Unable to read from: /home/shawn/.local/xorg/log/Xorg.0.log
<daftykins> yeah you'll need to browse into ~/.local and find it, i had the path wrong
<daftykins> silly 16.10 changing things i'm used to!
<R13ose> daftykins: http://paste.ubuntu.com/23395570/  there is also a Xorg.1.log tpp
<R13ose> too*
<Bashing-om> R13ose: I expect that 16.04 still maintains the xorg log ; ' pastebinit /var/log/Xorg.0.log ' should be productive on the cuurent boot.
<daftykins> i spy the proper intel driver labels :)
<daftykins> from line 160
<R13ose> Bashing-om: http://paste.ubuntu.com/23395582/
<daftykins> so it looks like that edit has solved it, so you'll need to put it in permanently now so it's used on every boot
<daftykins> yeah we're gonna need to see modified times on both those files
<Bashing-om> yeah .. but we are not booting with osi= on this log file .
<daftykins> the paste ending 82 is outdated i think
<daftykins> oh
<daftykins> oh dear.
<R13ose> As I said there is Xorg.1.log too
<daftykins> oh so you didn't pastebin that one? can you?
<R13ose> I didn't because you said 0
<R13ose> daftykins: http://paste.ubuntu.com/23395585/
<R13ose> Bashing-om: http://paste.ubuntu.com/23395586/
<daftykins> yeah i'm still new to 16.10, they've changed all the things i could rely on
<R13ose> well is 1 better then 0
<daftykins> it's not about better, it's about appropriate or not
<daftykins> and the timestamps on these files are still important, you'd need to check them to see whether they're from the current boot or not
<R13ose> Today is Oct 28 so I don't think so
<daftykins> well i can't see the timestamps on the log files on your disk from here
<Bashing-om> R13ose: What is the date on ' ls -al /var/log/Xorg.0.log ' ?
<R13ose> Bashing-om: Oct 28 22:29 /var/log/Xorg.0.log
<Bashing-om> R13ose: And your local time is now about 10:29 PM ?/ Such that file is the current one ??
<R13ose> Bashing-om: yes 24 mins ago
<Bashing-om> R13ose: K. then that is the current fole ! .. show that one to us . ( booted with the  osi= boot parametr ) .
<R13ose> Bashing-om: I am in that currently
<R13ose> Bashing-om: from line 1, I believe this is the one you are asking for: http://paste.ubuntu.com/23395582/
<Bashing-om> R13ose: yepper, reading .
<R13ose> I thought both of you thought this was good
<Bashing-om> R13ose: Looks good to me EXCEPT ,,, I do not see where the i915 driver is loaded .. daftykins HUH ?
<daftykins> well to me, that one goes back to that modeset rubbish instead of seeing the intel driver
<daftykins> so i'm quite puzzled
<Bashing-om> R13ose: Be aware I have limited expreience with the Intel chip set .
<R13ose> no worries
<daftykins> i'm feeling really lost with 16.10's behaviour, too :/
<daftykins> you would always look for the lines with drivername(#): at the start before to indicate which driver is in use
<daftykins> for intel, it should be intel(#):
<daftykins> now it's got modeset(#): in there i am very lost
<Bashing-om> Yeah ,,, I have yet to see 16.10 . I stil have my hands full with 16.04 .
<daftykins> LTS \o/
<Bashing-om> R13ose: show us ' sudo lshw -C display ' . Bet what we have here is that modeset(#) is linked to " Matched modesetting as autoconfigured driver 0" -> LoadModule: "fbdev" . Maybe that here fbdev is Intel 915 (???) .
<R13ose> Bashing-om: http://pastebin.com/quYd4AnT
<daftykins> "fbdev  is  an  Xorg  driver  for  framebuffer  devices.  This is a non- accelerated driver"
<daftykins> hrmm
<Bashing-om> welp. Maybe trouble shooting graphics is going to get as troublesome as troubleshooting resolve.conf in systemd. That I915 driver got loaded - somewhere/sometime !
<daftykins> :D
 * daftykins nuked resolvconf in the past and hardcoded it
<daftykins> but that's servers :D
<Bashing-om> All I know to do at this point is try the DE and see how it performs .. and if stable make the iso= parameter permanent . R13ose That gets a bit trickier //
<daftykins> *nod*
<daftykins> not much else to try (other than dumping 16.10 because non-LTS is never good)
<Bashing-om> daftykins: :) R13ose LTS on a production machine .
<R13ose> ok
<R13ose> This was happening in 16.04 too
<Bashing-om> R13ose: K. Just at a lose presently to know what else to do . or where else to look . Is this 16.10 install from fresh, or as a upgrade from 16.04 ( in that you carried your problems forward ?) ?
<R13ose> upgrade
<Bashing-om> R13ose: :( on the upgrade . Seems the problem got carried forward . However, appears It will take greater experience and knowledge than I posses to see where the problem is .
<R13ose> be back tomorrow my time
<R13ose> thanks for help
<Bashing-om> R13ose: K .. U am clearing my board . we take this back up tomorrow .
<Bashing-om> !info aplay
<ubot5`> Package aplay does not exist in xenial
<ducasse> morning all
 * Bashing-om waves at ducasse in getting ready to pass it on .
 * ducasse wishes Bashing-om a good nights sleep
<Bashing-om> Thankee ,, and a good day to you .
 * xXEoflaOEXx has 17.04 development branch by upgrading from 16.10 using sudo do-release-upgrade -d
<Ben64> xXEoflaOEXx: cool?
<R13ose> Hi
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<R13ose> Hi
<OerHeks> don't drink & sudo
<Bashing-om> That ^ is great advise, did you not, and now there are bad consequences ?
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-10-30
<Bashing-om> Seems in the evolution of things; Fridays on the channel have gotten awfully S L O W . Ya ?
<daftykins> sounds about right :)
<daftykins> until the trolls come in force
<Bashing-om> Ain't seen no trolls since daftykins ran them all out of town .
<daftykins> haha if only i could
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<daftykins> helloooooo!
<daftykins> how goes it? :D
<lotuspsychje> hey hey dafty
<lotuspsychje> great on this side of the globe :p and you?
<daftykins> yeah not bad here :> more fixing going on! sorted a laptop here for someone which a local IT shop claimed was dead
<lotuspsychje> lol
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/rgmjalwccwufpje/AAClMHQBGPTwTm8GuaCc-G-Oa?dl=0
<daftykins> look at that beauty ;)
<lotuspsychje> thats always nice to rebirt a machine
<daftykins> absolutely, Â£61 paid to get a 275GB crucial MX300 SSD on the way too
<daftykins> it's only a dual core AMD Athlon X2 with 3GB RAM, but plenty for the person in question
<lotuspsychje> lookin neat
<lotuspsychje> what was the 'claimed' broken part?
<daftykins> the story i heard was that it wouldn't even switch on, a live session saw 48 bad sectors so i just sold them on the idea of a new drive instead, after having scrubbed it up, can only imagine what the fan noise must've been like before :D
<lotuspsychje> hehe
<daftykins> but get this, this shop allegedly backed up their data too... so i plug in this external drive they got given... two blank partitions on it
<daftykins> i'm probably going to suggest they or i go there and demand a refund
<lotuspsychje> perhaps they data recovered it with before with a tool?
<daftykins> if they did they left it in a totally unusable state XD
<lotuspsychje> there's a new hijackworm spreading on Fb also
<daftykins> o rly
<lotuspsychje> locks your *win folders with an aes encryption and need to pay the ransom before unlocking
<lotuspsychje> of course paying isnt garantuee
<daftykins> that's impossible
<lotuspsychje> without they key you cant deciper as its too strong encryption
<daftykins> Windows folder is always in use :>
<lotuspsychje> so only like data recovery tools can get data back like photorec
<daftykins> i think most of these ransomware ones rely on unpatched machines, EOL machines or just idiot users really
<lotuspsychje> if i recall correctly its fastly spreading from FB
<lotuspsychje> lemme refind link
<daftykins> i had a client who saw a news story about someone getting hit locally and so wanted his backup to be safe from it, i explained it's not really that easy to have an automated backup setup that's safe from it
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<daftykins> i haven't really come up with a good idea on that one, some software you can have FTP it somewhere... that would be safe from ransomware
<daftykins> far from ideal to be touching FTP in 2016 though ;)
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/after-researchers-crack-wildfire-ransomware-crooks-return-with-hades-locker-509100.shtml
<daftykins> mmm nothing major :>
<lotuspsychje> not really
<daftykins> i have had a client fall for a "UPS" fake email, i asked him how he thought a courier would know his address even if he did have a package on the way XD
<lotuspsychje> lol
<daftykins> just had some adware i think
<lotuspsychje> every time i need to mess with a win system, im loosing my patience really
<lotuspsychje> slowwww
<daftykins> that's usually the case with factory installs, which is why i never let anyone run a factory install
<lotuspsychje> office 2003 uninstall and reinstall took me 45 min yesterday on a box
<daftykins> hrmm that's EOL though, shouldn't really offer to work with it at all
<daftykins> it's as dead as XP :)
<daftykins> still the best version though, back when the whole suite installed was <500MB :D
<lotuspsychje> yep
<lotuspsychje> they didnt want libreoffice, and thats what they had on stick
<daftykins> i managed to boot the 7 install on the wonky drive in this asus actually, same thing the disk light was on solid
<daftykins> i usually use ubuntu live sessions to copy data off with ones like that now, so i'm not held up by the bad OS :D
<daftykins> put in a spare drive of my own, clean install - totally flies
<daftykins> that SSD is going to be \o/
<lotuspsychje> nice
<daftykins> finally found the updates to put on a clean 7 SP1 rollup ISO i made... check for updates without taking hours too :D
<lotuspsychje> thats pretty handy
<daftykins> very weird issue came in since win10 came out
<lotuspsychje> if you dont wanna end up hours of silly updates
<daftykins> yep there are only 40 now since the May rollup came out and i integrated it into my ISOs
<lotuspsychje> nice
<daftykins> doing 7 sucks though, classic days of driver finding
<daftykins> 10 is so great for just getting them all off windows update :D
<lotuspsychje> didnt test 10 yet and i wont :p
<daftykins> i maintain all the rubbish articles talking about it stealing your soul being the usual rubbish
<daftykins> typical FUD
<daftykins> yesterday we had a guy running 16.10 with KDE that wouldn't redraw the screen on adding tabs in firefox, i think it was o0
<daftykins> acer v5 machine
<lotuspsychje> oh
<lotuspsychje> sounds like a bell
<daftykins> it was an ivybridge i3, there are hybrid graphic combos of the machine but it had no nvidia device apparently
<daftykins> lotuspsychje: so what's the plan for this day? :)
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: being real lazy
<daftykins> \o/
<lotuspsychje> tomorrow working day again
<lotuspsychje> and its like holiday weekend, so crowded at work
<daftykins> ah har
<daftykins> one with the monday off for all?
<lotuspsychje> nop, were open 24/7 mate :p
<lotuspsychje> but today was my day off
<daftykins> i just meant the holiday
<lotuspsychje> ah yes, 1 november holiday
<ducasse> hi guys \o
<daftykins> gm ducasse \o
<lotuspsychje> morning ducasse
<ducasse> i hate dst :-/
<daftykins> ah har yes i saw the time travelling at 2am :>
<lotuspsychje> its auto sync on ubuntu :p
<daftykins> if everything is too auto, i won't know it's happened ;)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<daftykins> that's a point, Win10 doesn't even tell me!
<ducasse> most things handle it automatically, so it's no hassle anymore, i just think it's dumb :)
<daftykins> 7 would have a little bit of text if you clicked the clock, telling you things are not as they seem
<ducasse> my cat, though, does *not* handle dst. she was not happy with her food being an hour late.
<daftykins> ah har that's quite the schedule! i don't have one for my little one, just top her up when i see it low
<lotuspsychje> lol
<ducasse> mine always has the dry stuff, but i give her 'wet' food when i wake up.
<daftykins> ah yeah
<Bashing-om> G nite guys .
<daftykins> nn sir o/
<lotuspsychje> bye Bashing-om
<daftykins> candle officially passed ;)
<ducasse> nightynight, Bashing-om
<daftykins> 1hr before this little cafe opens, oy
<ducasse> going out?
<daftykins> tempted, yeah... get a nice breakfast :> http://www.cafeemilia.co.uk/
<daftykins> this place is right beside me
<lotuspsychje> mmmmm
<ducasse> i'd kill for a full english breakfast about now :)
<lotuspsychje> coffee and croissants
<lotuspsychje> with bacon ane scrambled eggs mmm
 * daftykins scoops up his cat and moves her away from ducasse 
<daftykins> ;)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<ducasse> hehe, not cats, though, they're safe :)
<daftykins> cooked breakfast for me, minus the black pud and possibly minus the toast
<daftykins> bread is the schoolboy error!
<lotuspsychje> heh
<lotuspsychje> im not a toast fan myself
<daftykins> do you get nutella over there? nutella on toast is quite something
<daftykins> i've been getting into crumpets of late, nutella on crumpets is O:
<daftykins> diet ruining.
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> as a desert could be nice
<ducasse> we have something very similar to nutella, called nugatti. as a kid i ate slices with an inch of nugatti on :)
<daftykins> :O
<ducasse> mmmmm
<lotuspsychje> is that like nougat?
<daftykins> hazelnut and cocoa spread
<daftykins> unless you mean just ducasse' one
<ducasse> daftykins: know where i can get one of those win pe boot images? need to update some firmwares.
<daftykins> err what're you updating? i have a flash drive with win98 boot files i paste binaries on and run :>
<ducasse> samsung 850 evo's, two of them.
<daftykins> i thought they provided a bootable ISO usually
<daftykins> i also thought someone claimed recently that that model has no update o0
<ducasse> not any longer, and the linux tools only does older drives and enterprise models.
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: the 850 evo's showing newer firmware on samsungs site now?
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: they've never been updated at all
<lotuspsychje> yeah but didnt realize the 850 series had updates
<ducasse> yup. you have the pro, right?
<daftykins> multi thousand dollar new macbooks don't even come with power extension cables, lol
<lotuspsychje> yep
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: then you can flash with their linux tools.
<lotuspsychje> i think i firmwared the 840 evo with plop boot manager tools
<daftykins> ducasse: were you thinking to install the magician program in a WinPE then o0
<ducasse> daftykins: i just know it can run it, i don't want to make a full win install
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: https://www.plop.at/en/downloads.html
<daftykins> hmm programs that need installing i wouldn't have thought would work
<daftykins> i'm more thinking of the windows installer sessions though
<ducasse> this supposedly does.
<ducasse> i read it on the internet!
<ducasse> ;)
<daftykins> XD
<ducasse> nvm, i've got a spare ssd and win7, can use that if push comes to shove.
<lotuspsychje> breakfast time guys, have a nice one
<ducasse> daftykins: cafe-time soon?
<daftykins> 15 mins ermagerd!
<daftykins> gotta go check i don't look too homeless
<ducasse> who cares as long as you can pay? ;)
<daftykins> it's an island, there's always people i know! XD
<ducasse> good point. :)
<ducasse> daftykins: anyway, enjoy! :)
<daftykins> i gotta get out of my fur covered clothes
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<R13ose> Hi
<Bashing-om> Back on ! .. so, now - What is there to do this day ?
<OerHeks> Eat first
<OerHeks> ikonia, that INSERT + Q was your own answer some ages ago, grinn
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-10-23
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Oh , back :) .. You can have it back in the same shape you left it in :)
<lotuspsychje> oh tnx :p
<Bashing-om> :D
<lotuspsychje> TJ- is eating all issues, time for a biggg coffee lol
<lotuspsychje> welcome Sveta`
<Sveta`> thank you lotuspsychje :-)
<lotuspsychje> add to favs ; )
<Sveta`> yes, quassel adds any newly joined channels to autojoin automatically :) it is an interesting client.
<lotuspsychje> cool, im on hex here
<Sveta`> :-)
<lotuspsychje> Sveta`: wich distro you on mate?
<Sveta`> I started with ubuntu (with gnome 2) in 2010 or so. Then I tried xubuntu and then moved to debian (with gnustep and wmaker). Seems that the wmaker window manager is more suitable to what I am after at home at least. It has this remarkable feature, you can create menus based on directory structure, and I use that for books.
<lotuspsychje> Sveta`: nice one
<lotuspsychje> Sveta`: xenial & artful box here
<lotuspsychje> Sveta`: and ubports phone & tablet
<Sveta`> I have a dumb phone called 'nokia e65'. It makes calls, has really loud speakers which is nice, it also has sms but no cyrillic input and I am not motivated to figure out how to change that, as phone calls are nicer anyway.
<lotuspsychje> hehe
<lotuspsychje> a phone for calling is the best
<Sveta`> I would really like a phone that has no screen. I would like to provide it with voice commands. However I have not yet found such a thing.
<lotuspsychje> i know one, the one from nightrider lol
<lotuspsychje> kit, come here!
<lotuspsychje> i think oerheks got a watch like that
<lotuspsychje> who wants an apple phone anyway
<Sveta`> I dislike 'wearing' electronics. I think it is dangerous, particularly when cellular receivers are involved.
<lotuspsychje> watch
<lotuspsychje> Sveta`: i share the same thoughts
<lotuspsychje> sounds like transhuman evolution
<lotuspsychje> chips in skin..phones on skin,,chips in brain, whats next
<Bashing-om> Next is Lotus ComPuters :P
<oerheks> Borg ..
<oerheks> https://github.com/DragonComputer/Dragonfire
<lotuspsychje> lol
<oerheks> finally you can say: ENOUGH | SHUT UP
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: lotus computers will bring back users to basics
<oerheks> caveman ?
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> diodnt unix start ina cave?
<oerheks> yes, timetravelers
<lotuspsychje> bbl
<Bashing-om> 'Nuff Good Nite \o
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> morning all
<jink> 'sup kids? :)
<BluesKaj> Hey all
<nicomachus> o/ morning
<ducasse> \o nicomachus - all well?
<nicomachus> having trouble finding some files I need but other than that, quite good
<nicomachus> for a monday
<nicomachus> lol: https://github.com/MrMEEE/bumblebee-Old-and-abbandoned/issues/123
<nicomachus> whatever the successor to Wayland ends up being will probably be here before I get used to Wayland replacing Xorg
<ducasse> nicomachus: that _is_ pretty funny :) yet another developer that deserves being put in stocks and pelted with rotten eggs :)
<ducasse> +1, i've been playing with wayland for a year and a half and still utterly hate it
<nicomachus> I still default to troubleshooting display/resolution issues through xrandr. :/
<ducasse> me too, there simply are no tools for wayland because there is nothing to configure :-/
<nicomachus> my moto x4's finally shipped.
<ducasse> \o/
<nicomachus> pre-ordered them on Sept 20, they were supposed to ship Oct 12, but there were "production delays"
<ducasse> i need a new phone, but it's getting difficult to find one with things like microsd slot and a recent android by a non-chinese brand for not too much money
<nicomachus> Moto x4 has SD and Android 8.0 with guaranteed 9.0
<ducasse> how much?
<nicomachus> $399.99 from Project Fi, so I think that's the same price elsewhere.
<ducasse> i don't think they're sold here, but i can check again
<nicomachus> where are you?
<ducasse> norway
<nicomachus> do they offer Project Fi in Norway? Project Fi has an exclusive on the Android One version, which is bloat free.
<ducasse> nope, i didn't think that existed outside the us at all?
<nicomachus> idk
<nicomachus> Amazon has the x4 for $329.99
<leftyfb> nicomachus: in what world is someone asking for help in an OS channel about a programming language they're learning in a formal course where the teachers are being paid to instruct, after being told to consult #programminglanguage and the solution shows up in the first result on google, is it wrong to suggest that the teacher should teach it's students how to find answers on their own(google)? I wanted to suggest the student pay better
<leftyfb> attention in class, but that would be acting like a jerk.
<nicomachus> https://www.amazon.com/Moto-4th-Generation-hands-free-Lockscreen/dp/B074VDZN5S
<nicomachus> leftyfb: it's generally a jerk move to say "learn to google" in any circumstance.
<nicomachus> just throw an !ot at them and move on.
<leftyfb> how is that more helpful? I actually gave the answer, and then suggested better familiarity with google.
<nicomachus> Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯ sorry then
<ducasse> leftyfb: i agree, but don't think it would be that uncool to suggest he ask that in his class instead of bringing it to #ubuntu
<leftyfb> I don't see why suggesting google is so frowned upon. People would do and say less stupid things in this world if people bothered to research on their own. I NEVER give "JFGI" as an answer. I find the answer and usually give the google result I found it in. This both gives the answer they're looking for AND the search terms I used to find the answer. This has the added benefit of teaching people how to find answers on their own along with
<leftyfb> the answer they're looking for.
<leftyfb> Giving someone just an answer without the means to find it on their own I feel is less helpful.
<leftyfb> In a "Teach a man to fish" sort of way
<ducasse> some of them just don't want to learn, but in that case i'm not all that interested in helping them either :-/
<leftyfb> A lot of the time the answer either isn't on google or takes a lot of work to find. I help with those in the manner people seem to prefer. But when you type <question just asked> into google and it's the first result, or sometimes, the answer is literally on the google page, come on. .... like "how do I install software on ubuntu". That's just silly.
<TJ-> leftyfb: "use a search engine" here's some terms to help you X Y Z is better than saying "Google". There are many other search engines after all
<nacc> leftyfb: i think the faq is about JFGI-itis
<leftyfb> TJ-: I never just say "google"
<nacc> leftyfb: not about suggesting good search terms in general
<nicomachus> uhhh... since when does the channel allow people to directly upload an image?
<nicomachus> or is that just a /me?
<nacc> nicomachus: i think that's something from their synapse thing
<nicomachus> weird
<leftyfb> where are you seeing this?
<dax> nicomachus: it's just a /me
<dax> the matrix <-> irc gateway handles people throwing images into matrix by giving them a public URL and putting that in the IRC channel
<nicomachus> leftyfb: 10:48  * ayyo[m] uploaded an image: synapseerror.png (268KB)
<nicomachus> <https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/fEuLVpCAlBBjCvQKAyPOSlz
<nicomachus> K>
<dax> (and synapse is the name of the server for matrix)
<nicomachus> rpi has a ton of python-related updates today
<leftyfb> ah, I missed the first part of that
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<oerheks> wb lotus
<ducasse> \o lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> tnx oerheks :p
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/librem-5-privacy-focused-linux-phone-crowdfunding-campaign-ends-with-2-million-518158.shtml
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: so, will you be upgrading to one of them when they're out?
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: cant wait that long mate
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: first quarter of 2019 :p
<lotuspsychje> ill be on ubports for now
<ducasse> i'll certainly consider one, they look good
<ducasse> i need a new phone *now*, though, so it will have to be the next one
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: any idea wich one you will buy?
<ducasse> nope, just that it'll be cheap and not by a chinese brand :) other than that, i don't care that much.
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> https://ubports.com/
<lotuspsychje> website looks so neat now
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hey lotuspsychje
<ducasse> \o BluesKaj
<ducasse> all going well?
<BluesKaj> hey ducasse
<BluesKaj> yup, fine here , and you, ducasse?
<ducasse> good here, winding down for the evening
<BluesKaj> it's a stay inside day here..pouring rain
<nicomachus> cold here
<nicomachus> 58F
<nicomachus> had storms all weekend but it's clear now.
<BluesKaj> 58F/15C is cold ?
<ducasse> 2Â°C here, rain forecast
<lotuspsychje> rainy here aswell
<BluesKaj> that's cold rain
<nicomachus> BluesKaj: colder than it's been at least
<lotuspsychje> hey pauljw
<pauljw> hi lotuspsychje, how are you doing?
<lotuspsychje> great here
<lotuspsychje> bout yourself?
<pauljw> :) same thanks.
<BluesKaj> nicomachus, yeah, we had summer like temps/75F here 'til yesterday, now it's dropped 57F
<ducasse> \o pauljw
<pauljw> hey ducasse
<pauljw> BluesKaj
<nicomachus> BluesKaj: I just realized this weekend that I need to go out and buy a couple pairs of jeans for winter.
<BluesKaj> ey pauljw
<pauljw> EriC^^, and anyone else I might have missed... :)
<EriC^^> hey pauljw :)
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
<lotuspsychje> its full house here
<EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
<BluesKaj> Hey EriC^^
<BluesKaj> :-)
<EriC^^> hey BluesKaj
<EriC^^> :)
<BluesKaj> I see the r4elease guessing has started for 18.04 . BB something silly as uasual i bet
<TJ-> Bonkers BlueKaj :p
<lotuspsychje> lol
<BluesKaj> hehe
<lotuspsychje> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelopmentCodeNames#A18.04
<lotuspsychje> a bat would be nice
<TJ-> can't we switch to 3 letters? Bloody-well Better Work!
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> Breedy Bat
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om is in da house!
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Any hate and destruction in progress ? Should I run now ?
<lotuspsychje> no, all love here :p
<TJ-> maybe Bashing-om Barnacles would be a good name for 18.04?
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> yeah lets vote for that
<Bashing-om> TJ-: After you bash 17.10 into shape .. 18.04 will be a piece of cake :P
<lotuspsychje> https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/4d344fea0f82a27352fd315209f7b9772dccc2bcd179707b1e3a1e74e7e2c7fe.jpg?w=800&h=361
<lotuspsychje> lol, its betty boop
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> not a bad name!
<lotuspsychje> hey hey daftykins
<TJ-> Isn't Betty  Boop trademarked?
<lotuspsychje> uh-oh
<daftykins> o/
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/10/ubuntu-18-04-name-speculation
<lotuspsychje> hilarious
<TJ-> haha "The nature of LTS releases mean we can expect minor and conservative changes to whatâs on offer in Ubuntu 17.10"
<TJ-> so we can expect lots of bugs stull!
<TJ-> still
<Bashing-om> Xorg->wayland .. is a huge difference in interfaces .. we will have growing pains !
<lotuspsychje> dax: just a minor found, a user found the ubuntu flavors url's are in http and redirect to https
<TJ-> not least many users with no way to select the resolution of the monitor(s) and wrong res being used
<TJ-> how the heck I'd cope with 3 portrait oriented I don't know
<TJ-> this is just like what happened with systemd, though. Replace something before the new system has reached feature parity
<daftykins> i thought that was the open source way!
<lotuspsychje> lol
<TJ-> no
<daftykins> guys i just wrote "hello world", ready to replace ALSA!
<Bashing-om> well, bounce it off 17.10 ... see what sticks .. apply to 18.04 .
<TJ-> the problem is monolithic development teams with centralised commercial management
<dax> lotuspsychje: yeah, we were talking about that the other day, one of us should probably go through and check links to make sure they still work and also see if they can https
<dax> lotuspsychje: is every url on flavors https-able?
<lotuspsychje> yeah tested kubuntu ,xubuntu
<Bashing-om> TJ-: There is that .. when it is all said and done in the end it is "commercial management" that makes all this possible .
<lotuspsychje> they redirect to https
<lotuspsychje> !xubuntu
<ubot5> Xubuntu is Ubuntu with !Xfce as the desktop environment. More info at http://xubuntu.org/ - To install the Xubuntu environment from Ubuntu: Â« sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop^ Â» - Join #xubuntu for support - See also: !xubuntu-channels
<dax> oh, the individual factoids for the flavors, right
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<dax> i fixed kubuntu during aforementioned discussion, just fixed xubuntu now
<lotuspsychje> tnx dax
<lotuspsychje> budgie is good
<daftykins> next task, make the wiki best arch's ;)
<lotuspsychje> mate also good
<TJ-> Bashing-om: the commercial management counters good development practice though.  They don't make it possible. Almost all core projects started as side-projects that won users and snowballed. We know from the GDM3 saga, pulseaudio, systemd and now wayland compositors, that the technology was pushed onto users before it was ready
<TJ-> sorry, gnome3, not gdm3
<TJ-> did you notice budgie is being rewritten for, I think, the 4th time. completely rewritten?
<lotuspsychje> howso?.
<daftykins> 0o
<Bashing-om> TJ-: Fall out for dropping convergence .. convergence just was not going to happen .
<dax> so not https://www.jwz.org/doc/cadt.html ?
<Bashing-om> Well, my take ^ . I do not work on bug tracking .. so I have no room to talk .
<daftykins> i leave the bug tracking to Mischief
<lotuspsychje> Mr_0: !ping
<TJ-> Bashing-om: convergence was a Canonical thing though. The projects I mentioned are largely driven by RedHat
<Bashing-om> TJ-: My thought . there is "brand loyality" but it all trickels down and about when it is good .
<lotuspsychje> the librem purism phone will have convergence too
<TJ-> anyhow... someone take over with maszlo - Lenovo T450, never completes service startup when on battery power. works fine on AC. We've scoured the logs, applied the acpi_osi fix, and done a lot of other disable-service tests and no clue. My feeling is a firmware related issue provoked by the 17.10 kernel. Maybe get him to reinstall manually the 17.04 kernel using wget + dpkg  and try booting with that
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: alot of acpi issues on yoga's
<lotuspsychje> users always come here with hibernate issues on those
<TJ-> this was fine on 17.04 though so if you can help him get the 17.04 kernel installed - or first check if it might have been left behind, and get him to boot using that, see if the problem goes away that would be a MAJOR step forward
<TJ-> this is from cold-boot, no suspend/resume/hibernate involved
<TJ-> anyhow, dinner calls :)
<lotuspsychje> bon apetit
<lotuspsychje> nite nite guys :p
<lordievader> Sleep well lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> tnx lordievader
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: \o laters .
<ducasse> nite lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> have a nice1 guys
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-10-24
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> mornin sirru5h
<sirru5h> Howdy everyone lotuspsychje sup
<lotuspsychje> aqbout to breakfast mate :p
<sirru5h> lol you always beat me
<lotuspsychje> heh
<sirru5h> Ahh very good night time here
<sirru5h> You must live in asia or australia
<lotuspsychje> belgium
<lotuspsychje> european timezone
<sirru5h> ha interesting I guess it would be what 5am there
<lotuspsychje> 7h38
<lotuspsychje> morning Sveta
<Sveta> good morning lotuspsychje :-)
<sirru5h> 8 hrs ahead alright good stuff
<sirru5h> lotuspsychje, I got a question for ya
<lotuspsychje> shoot
<sirru5h> In Ubuntu 17.10 in wayland do gui apps work in terminal when you use sudo
<lotuspsychje> sirru5h: ive read they would block that by default
<lotuspsychje> sirru5h: didnt test gksudo on artful yet
<sirru5h> Yeah only issue is that even in GUI using "Activities" I only get the authentication prompt but no Synaptic
<sirru5h> Like I get around that but meh : /
<sirru5h> It's odd not sure if it is a bug or what extactly
<lotuspsychje> sirru5h: not sure what you mean exactly, synaptic is GUI?
<Bashing-om> sirru5h: No GKSU un wayland : https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2374812 work-a-round .
<sirru5h> Bashing-om, now synaptic package manager works may have to put it into cron
<Bashing-om> sirru5h: :)
<lordievader> Good morning
<Bashing-om> Good nite guys \o
<ducasse> morning all
<jink> Morning, ducasse.
<ducasse> hiya jink
<ducasse> rise and shine! :)
<jink> Heh.
<jink> I was at work an hour and a half ago.
<ducasse> :)
<lotuspsychje> bbl work
<BluesKaj> 'Morning folks
<TJ-> nacc: ping?
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<TJ-> 18.04 = Brilliantly Bionic
<BluesKaj> TJ-, what's you reference?
<TJ-> Me!
<BluesKaj> heh
<pauljw> heheh
<TJ-> Mark Shuttleworth actually
<BluesKaj> tried installing kxstudio, no public key available for 17.10
<BluesKaj> TJ-, ^
<TJ-> I pulled it in manually with "apt-key adv --keyserver hkp://keyserver.ubuntu.com --recv-key <KEYID>"
<BluesKaj> oh , I forgot about that ...thanks
<ducasse> TJ-: has that actually been announced now? 18.04, i mean?
<nicomachus> I thought it would be in this interview if anywhere, but it's not: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/10/why-did-ubuntu-drop-unity-mark-shuttleworth-explains
<TJ-> ducasse: yes
<TJ-> see http://markshuttleworth.com/archives/1518
<ducasse> " I give you 18.04 LTS, the Bionic Beaver."
<ducasse> that sounds better...
<TJ-> heheh
<TJ-> I prefer Brilliantly Bionic
<TJ-> brings back memories of Lee Majors in the Bionic Man TV series
<ducasse> i dunno, i bionic beaver could be one hell of a mascot :)
<TJ-> I think he's going to have some problems with the USA audience for which "beaver" has certain 'other' connatations"
<TJ-> I can imagine the memes now
<ducasse> lol
<pauljw> i'm sure it's not just the USA with those other connotations...
 * TJ- whistles
<nicomachus> LOL, the bionic beaver...
 * nicomachus is USA audience and is burshing off GIMP for meme making
<pauljw> :)
<nacc> TJ-: pong
<nacc> TJ-: saw the discussion with sil in the other channel
<nacc> TJ-: do you want me to do the ppa build?
<TJ-> nacc: Hiya - just back from running the Huskies! I'm going to create a bug report to capture all the info we gathered and then get maszlo to subscribe to it, and then we can look at doing some builds. I need to confirm just what dbus patches are in 17.10 related to the fd in-flight issue first. I've also seen signs that despite disabling laptop-mode, it was still doing 'stuff' so I'm going to get him
<TJ-> to purge that package first before we do anything else.
<TJ-> nacc: I suspect the reason it works on USB but not SSD is simply I/O throughput, so nto convinced its a valid data-point
<TJ-> nacc: if maszlo does a HDD install as he suggested he might, and that works, that'd also point to the SSD being so fast there's some race-condition combined with some kind of power-saving modes somewhere.
<TJ-> nacc: the weird part is, the messages "EXT-fs (sda6) Opts errors=remount" that occur multiple times come from the ext4 driver at the end of its successful remount() function, so there's no real clue what is putting the rootfs back into ro mode!
<maszlo> TJ-: nacc: good day
<TJ-> maszlo: I'm just creating a master bug report so we can capture all the info properly and offer some options of patched packages if appropriate
<TJ-> maszlo: did the M2 install see the same issue on battery?
<maszlo> TJ- nacc : these are the logs i pulled this morning. comparing the faulty boot and boot of fresh 17.10, both on battery. This is the fresh install: journalctl http://paste.ubuntu.com/25810306/ and dmesg http://paste.ubuntu.com/25810343/  And then there are the one trying to get working journalctl http://paste.ubuntu.com/25810351/ and dmesg http://paste.ubuntu.com/25810355/
<maszlo> TJ-: It did not M2 boots just fine
<TJ-> maszlo: did you already report this bug in Launchpad? If you didn't someone else has reported something very similar Bug #1725458
<ubot5> bug 1725458 in systemd (Ubuntu) "System unbootable with root fs mounted ro after update to systemd 234-2ubuntu12 (from 234-2ubuntu10) on artful" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1725458
<TJ-> maszlo: That's on an HP so not you!
<maszlo> I have not posted this.  was hard for me to point where the actual issue was
<TJ-> haha it also says the fix is what I thought about last night after you'd gone! the fstab doesn't have a "defaults" so "rw" isn't being applied!
<TJ-> maszlo: edit /etc/fstab, for the root / entry options change to "rw,errors=remount-ro"
<TJ-> maszlo: according to that user that appeared to work *once*
<maszlo> TJ-: 'workaround' though right? its what ever is querying the battery
<TJ-> maszlo: yes, try it though. Then - based on what I noticed in the logs - purge the laptop-mode-tools package completely off the system
<TJ-> maszlo: those are all to try to confirm there's actually a race condition/bug between systemd and dbus. Your log has lots of "Transport endpoint is not connected" - what that means is systemd lost its connection to the service clients it controls using them via Dbus.
<Bashing-om> maszlo: TJ- If any help . My fstab entry for an SSD " UUID=d9c2a8e6-d014-42a6-846f-7e7892f4aef5 /               ext4    noatime,errors=remount-ro 0       1 " .
<maszlo> TJ-: what is the kernel parameter vt.handoff=7  i dont have that on the upgraded system but on the fresh
<TJ-> maszlo: so I'm thinking this issue could be related to 2 bugs in dbus recently fixed. we should be carrying a patch for one of them, but not for the other
<TJ-> Bashing-om: are you using 17.10 ?
<TJ-> maszlo: that's for the display manager to try to prevent screen flicker when the console hands over to the GUI
<Bashing-om> TJ-: No .. sorry that is a 16.04 install . I read that 17.10's vt_handoff is VT1 vice VT7 now .
<TJ-> GDM runs on tty1 yes but I suspect the handoff is more for Xorg's benefit.
<maszlo> TJ-: i noticed that my upgrade still starts up laptop-mode.. and the fresh install i see nothing in that log
<TJ-> maszlo: I was wondering if the ext4 option "commit=600" added by l.m.t is causing the issue
<TJ-> maszlo: which is why I suggest purging since that option was being added even when we disabled all of l.m.t
<maszlo> what is the proper way to do that 'sudo apt-get purge laptop-mode-tools' ?
<TJ-> maszlo: yes
<maszlo> i noticed something.. has apt replaced apt-get?
<maszlo> seems like parameters after that are all the same
<maszlo> TJ-: after that do i just install it again?
<TJ-> maszlo: apt is the user-friendly front-end to apt-get etc.
<maszlo> TJ-: so.. after i run purge i rebooted couple times and powered on fine without AC.  booted into the fresh 17.10 and it does not even have laptop-mode-tools installed
<TJ-> maszlo: so that points the finger at l.m.t. doesn't it?
<TJ-> maszlo: the report is bug #1726930
<ubot5> bug 1726930 in systemd (Ubuntu) "System fails to start (boot) on battery due to read-only root file-system" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1726930
<maszlo> TJ-: yes it does.  only difference i see between the two is that the upgraded 17.10 without laptop-mode-tools does not have working buttons to dim / brighten the lcd.. this does work on fresh
<TJ-> maszlo: that could be something to do with the thinkpad_acpi module; I think that is responsible for those platform bits
<TJ-> maszlo: it's possible the upgrade is carrying some different config options somewhere that effect that
<TJ-> maszlo: I was reading the laptop-mode code earlier trying to deduce if it could cause this. I'll dig deeper now. I suspect it puts the SSD into a very low power state which is adding latency in a way that is causing the isue
<maszlo> TJ-: possible that is one of the other things we disabled?
<TJ-> maszlo: I don't think there is anything else disabled is there? we left it with laptop-mode.service, laptop-mode.timer and lmt-poll.service disabled, but it seems something was still operating from l.m.t. despite that
<TJ-> maszlo: we re-enabled systemd-resolved, systemd-hostnamed, colord
<TJ-> maszlo: what happens if you install l.m.t. to the fresh 17.10 install on the M2 device?
<maszlo> TJ-: all three of those services are in part of laptop-mode-tools i take it?
<maszlo> TJ-:  i can try that now
<BluesKaj> TJ-, 18.04 is Bionic Beaver , another dumb handle :-)
<maszlo> TJ-: will give this another minute.. looks like after installing the laptop-mode-tools on M2 it does the same thing.  I just cant get to tty2 and have stupid splash and quiet params on there
<TJ-> maszlo: try pressing the Esc key, that should clear the plymouth splash
<maszlo> TJ-: yeah did that second boot, strange thing is it didnt freeze on second boot
<maszlo> laptop_mode does still act fishy.. only works when on battery power, but it did allow system to boot
<TJ-> maszlo: I'm wondering if some of the power-saving options it applies to the mass storage device(s) are causing extreme latencies on the device
<BluesKaj> I might as well post it here too,  â Development starts in only two days, on October 26, when the toolchain is uploaded to the archives,    http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-18-04-lts-dubbed-as-the-bionic-beaver-launches-april-26-2018-518186.shtml
<TJ-> maszlo: I think we need to collect detailed info  on the storage devices
<maszlo> TJ-: this is on the M2 http://paste.ubuntu.com/25810708/
<TJ-> maszlo: that's what I'd expect. It doesn't do anything when on AC (unless you configure it to do so) l.m.t.'s purpose is to extend battery life by applying aggresive power-saving options to devices
<maszlo> TJ-: what value do you suppose 'state' is pulled from?  status?
<TJ-> maszlo: can you "sudo apt install hwinfo" and then "sudo hwinfo |& tee hwinfo.log"
<maszlo> TJ-: that is probably it.. just noticed that that BAT1 shows Discharging, and BAT0 shows Unknown
<TJ-> maszlo: sounds about right. sounds like that bug in the battery firmware I referred to last night
<TJ-> maszlo: if you have a launchpad account add that hwinfo.log as an attachment to the bug report
<TJ-> maszlo: I'm wondering if this issue is provoking another bug in systemd/dbus because those Transport endpoint disconnects shouldn't happen
<maszlo> TJ-: crap.. i did that hwinfo from the M2.  is that where wanted to run that from?
<TJ-> maszlo: it doesn't matter, it's info on the system hardware and will/should include the SSD :)
<TJ-> maszlo: is the CT500BX100SSD1 the one with the upgraded system on it?
<TJ-> maszlo: the other is SanDisk SSD U110
<maszlo> TJ-: correct the CT500 is the upgrade, and SanDisk is the M2
<TJ-> I'd guess so; 465GB vs 15GB
<maszlo> TJ-: that 16GB one was the 'hybrid' drive option with hdd.  Its cool extra space for hidden os
<maszlo> TJ-: used it for RemixOS (android) for a bit, but has held kali or tails until yesterday when became part of testing
<TJ-> Woa! on 17.10  "apt-cache rpdends laptop-mode-tools" shows "systemd" depends on it
<maszlo> TJ-: but then why was it not installed on my fresh 17.10 install?
<TJ-> ... *but* "apt-cache depends systemd" show's it's a "Break"!! Breaks: laptop-mode-tools
<TJ-> maszlo: rdepends picks up depends/recommends/breaks/conflicts
<TJ-> so, systemd here is actually declaring it breaks l.m.t. but a do-release-upgrade isn't removing l.m.t.
<maszlo> TJ-: oh
<maszlo> TJ-: so the real fix is to just remove it
<TJ-> maszlo: yeah... I guess as it was already installed theres was nothing in systemd post-inst scripts to mark l.m.t. for removal
<maszlo> TJ-: I dont know why, but i commented out that line from /etc/default/grub and my brightness buttons work again.  maybe it didnt like windows :P
<TJ-> maszlo: you mean the acpi_osi=Windows 2015 ?
<maszlo> TJ-: yeah i just commented out that whole line, still have debug on too
<TJ-> maszlo: well if the system behaves without out that's progress I guess
<maszlo> TJ-: I am betting its something with this.. the status is unknown because BAT0 is not used until BAT1 is dead.  that is probably why its not listed as discharging
<TJ-> maszlo: right, it could be that, but the l.m.t. code does a loop over all nodes in /sys/power_supply/ so it should see BAT1's status too
<maszlo> TJ-: Yeah just ripping that lmt out seems to have done it
<maszlo> TJ-:  maybe i missed it, thought it was only complaining about BAT0
<nicomachus> some of the reactions to BB on reddit are exactly as predicted.
<TJ-> yes, it only logged the complaint about BAT0. If l.m.t. DEBUG logging were on it'd report all the devices it finds etc.
<nicomachus> https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/78fseb/ubuntu_1804_lts_is_bionic_beaver/
<TJ-> fnarr fnarr!
<maszlo> TJ-: going to send you a pm
<TJ-> maszlo: It's disabled :)
<maszlo> TJ-: i see that.  wanted to paypal you some coffee money
<TJ-> maszlo: thank-you, but it's not necessary :)
<maszlo> TJ-: No thank you.  wanted to provide some fuel for hunting bugs
<TJ-> As I said at the start last week, I don't allow software to beat us
<maszlo> TJ-: :D
<TJ-> maszlo: I dunno about you but I feel extremely relieved we've got to the bottom of it, after the intensity of the debugging
<TJ-> maszlo: nacc Bingo! I thought there might be something being triggered by udev based on the logs, and the debian bug report changelog entry confirms that was the original problem: "This avoids that broken software
<TJ->      like laptop-mode-tools, which runs mount from within udev rules, causes
<TJ->      the root file system to end up read-only"
<TJ-> maszlo: that'd explain why this still happened when we disabled l.m.t. services. It also installed a udev rule which udev was firing
<TJ-> nacc: looking at the patch for systemd_215-5ubuntu1 that includes that Debian patch, it's debian/patches/udev-re-enable-mount-propagation-for-udevd.patch and it simplt removes "MountFlags=slave" from /lib/systemd/system/systemd-udevd.service
<nacc> TJ-: yeah, i thinnk we want to figure out what changed in l-m-t
<TJ-> I'm checking now
<TJ-> now I know what the crux of the issue is it shouldn't be too hard.
<maszlo> TJ-: i am not sure where this would be found.. but I am assuming that this not being a common issue.. maybe this was a default package in Ubuntu-gnome but not ubuntu 17.04?
<nacc> TJ-: laptop-mode is *supposed* to remount your fs??
<nacc> TJ-: (readig some of the commit messages)
<TJ-> nacc: yes, with "commit=600" we see in maszlo cases, but it shouldn't cause a read-only remount
<TJ-> nacc: this looks to be close https://git.launchpad.net/laptop-mode-tools/commit/?id=695afe51215a28a05f2ce0fba2656f32f2a0a421
<TJ-> if udev was killing a background process that might explain why l.m.t. seemed to be repeatedly executed
<nacc> TJ-: that should be in th eversion in artful
<nacc> TJ-: also, to be sure, in maszlo's case, purging lmt didn't always fix it?
<nacc> or did it?
<TJ-> yes it did, always, and installing it into the fresh install also provoked the bug
<nacc> ah ok
<nacc> TJ-: sorry, wasn't caught up on that
<nacc> TJ-: sure would be nice if the systemd changelog actually referred to what fixed it in l-m-t
<TJ-> I'm wondering if the fact we've got l.m.t. trying to run that in the foreground (from etc/rules/lmt-udev) to deal with an earlier systemd issue has been caught out by artful's version of systemd! Sort-of a cat-n-mouse game. It'd be worth trying to revery that not-in-background change *and* try removing the system-udevd.service setting for MountFlags=slave" too
<nacc> TJ-: yeah
<TJ-> oh you bB&^&^%! - the udev rule: ACTION=="add", SUBSYSTEM=="usb", RUN+="lmt-udev force"   ... I did notice that the l.m.t. invokations seemed to be around USB device discovery
<TJ-> the problem is, l.m.t. being shell scripts not a proper daemon
<TJ-> 5 new USB devices discovered... 5 extra invocations of l.m.t force
<nacc> TJ-: ah
<TJ-> we had 5 instances of the messages repeated
<nacc> TJ-: yep, i was just reading another commit in l-m-t about the triggers
<TJ-> which commit? I'm getting lost :)
<nacc> TJ-: ok, so there are two orthogonal changes, it seems like -- 1) systemd enabled mount propogation to workaround buggy l-m-t udev rules that remount fs, which result in private mounts for systemd-udevd's namespace and that trip the root fs outside of that namesapce to become ro
<nacc> 2) l-m-t at some point supposedly fixed their udev rules (1.68, but I'm still not seeing an obvious change), but perhaps it is ef0d749abaf4ccfa408c41b4e8d744b423daff23 ?
<TJ-> nacc: wasn't the 'fix' just to not background the lmt-udev script call to non_systemd_way ?
<nacc> TJ-: i think that fix came later
<nacc> based upon the versioning
<nacc> that is, 1.68 doesn't have the fix you are referring to, afaict
<TJ-> right! ef0d749a points to that USB udev rule I pointed out above
<nacc> TJ-: yeah, but that is also not in 1.68 :)
<nacc> TJ-: (it's also possible systemd's changelog is wrong)
<maszlo> maszlo
<daftykins> yeah that's you!
<maszlo> lol ops thats not search
<TJ-> but systemd maybe weren't aware of this change, there's been changes on both sides over time relating to udev killing foreground, then killing background, processes as well as the mout slaves issue
<nacc> TJ-: yeah, that might be it
<nacc> it might have been 'fixed' at one point, but both sides moved and broke it
<TJ-> nacc: I need a coffee!!
<maszlo> daftykins: i was looking for time stamp of when removed a package.. back from lunch and still on BAT1
<nacc> TJ-: yeah, and systemd is a bear
<TJ-> nacc: indeed, that's what it looks like
<nacc> TJ-: I think i can probably get someone from foundations to look, if we have the bug filed
<TJ-> nacc: I'll do some more digging before you need to do that. I'd like to try reproducing it here
<nacc> TJ-: 5fe7a63738fb758f1d5f8809d8fc0bcdce2f1e4a seems like a likely, related, commit
<TJ-> nacc: it would be good to have absolute proof of what is going on with debug logs from both packages
<nacc> TJ-: so that's probaby the 'fix' referred to by the systemd changelog
<nacc> TJ-: and then the fix was fixed as systemd changed behavior in the commit you found
<nacc> TJ-: and then the systemd service was also changed in  ef0d749a
<TJ-> timeline looks about correct
 * TJ- rolls eyes
<daftykins> maszlo: 'BAT1' doesn't mean anything to me :)
<TJ-> i think enabling udev debug logging is the next step. if we can show it causing rootfs to be remount-ro that'll clinch it
<maszlo> TJ- nacc this might not be needed but guess was correct, the status 'Unknown' that it was complaining about BAT0 being bad was might have been that it was in idle state.  soon as BAT1 emptied out /sys/class/power_supply/BAT0/status now shows discharging
<TJ-> daftykins: maszlo's Lenovo has 2 batteries BAT0 and BAT1, there's problems with laptop-mode-tools not being able to read the status of BAT0. We wondered if that was the trigger for the bug we're working on
<daftykins> amusingly i have a client with a Lenovo X240 where the internal battery went AWOL entirely under Windows the other day
<maszlo> nacc: TJ- would it be worth wild putting lmt back in to see if it boots with that state?
<TJ-> maszlo: I think that could be it, I think we have an intersection of 3 bugs here in 3 separate places: 1) battery firmware, 2) l.m.t. and 3) systemd-udevd
<TJ-> maszlo: indeed it would
<maszlo> TJ-: BAT1 is now status 'unknown' btw
<TJ-> daftykins: there is a known (recall) issue with batteries on many lenovo models due to a bad firmware in Panasonic-made batteries. You should check if your client is affected
<daftykins> if booted with AC power in, it would stay on with the internal battery connected, but the OS and firmware had no idea where it was receiving power from :)
<TJ-> maszlo: that is weird
<daftykins> mmm well it's 2014 model so i doubt it
<TJ-> daftykins: worth checking. recalls due to faulty manufacture don't expire with warranty
<maszlo> TJ-:  i did check, neither of mine were panasonic.  My BAT0 is sony, and BAT1 is LGC
<TJ-> maszlo: yeah... you're OK :)
<TJ-> maszlo: I think we may j push this to upstream to l.m.t. devs since it's getting quite confusing... maybe its a problem with 2 batteries *and* state unknown
<TJ-> maszlo: they maybe 'assume' there's only 1 battery
<TJ-> maszlo: although as I said, the code loops over all nodes in /sys/class/power_supply/
<daftykins> already pulled it and have tossed it i think :)
<TJ-> time to get dressed - still in my running kit :)
<daftykins> larger capacity unit has been purchased for the secondary, that internal one was a tiny toy of 2000mAh iirc
<maszlo> daftykins: this is only my first notebook that isnt a bunch of 18650 cells.  not sure out it gets 5-6 hr?!
<daftykins> what's the model?
<maszlo> 2000mah is like one 18650.. I used recycled them to esp8266 projects and flashlights :)
<maszlo> daftykins: this is T450s
<maszlo> daftykins: maybe is more like 3-4hrs i dunno.. i am came from a terrible linux system that used optimus dual video cards (asus)
<daftykins> mmm seen plenty of those in my time, makes life a lot easier for pure portability having intel only
<daftykins> i'm still not convinced Linux is ever a wise choice for battery longevity though :)
<TJ-> my notebook gets about 11 hours
<TJ-> ouch! "[Parent 1858, Compositor] ###!!! ABORT: DRI2SwapBuffers         : BadDrawable"  Firefox crash whilst lock-screen was up
<TJ-> Asus Transformer T300chi, kinda tablet hybrid with bluetooth keyboard
<lordievader> TJ-: That is quite a lot. Mine does about 5 hours.
<lordievader> Coming from 2-ish hours that is quite an improvement :)
<TJ-> Yes, I was pleasantly surprised
<TJ-> it's got oomph too when I need it. my main issue with is we still don't have support for the touchpad in the BT keyboard, it only operates as a mouse, which is painful
<TJ-> proprietary stuff yet again
<maszlo> TJ-: these two are journalctl http://paste.ubuntu.com/25811746/ and dmesg http://paste.ubuntu.com/25811752/ with the BAT1 dead and BAT0 discharging.  It does not report the battery is bad, likely because status is discharging
<TJ-> maszlo: so l.m.t. is behaving with BAT0 discharging?
<maszlo> TJ-: forgot that detail, no still doesnt boot properly. just doest complain that battery is bad
<TJ-> maszlo: makes sense; it's the udev rules issue. You can try a couple of manual 'patches' to see if it gets fixed if you want
<maszlo> TJ-: the theory is that having lmt would provide longer battery life? battery drain seemed consistent to what i was getting before
<TJ-> maszlo: the first is to "sudo cp /lib/systemd/system/systemd-udevd.service /etc/systemd/system/" and then do "sudo sed -i '/MountFlags=slave/d' /etc/systemd/system/systemd-udevd.service" to remove that option, then reboot.
<TJ-> maszlo: depends on how much you're using it and what devices I think.
<TJ-> maszlo: I'll try 17.10 on my notebook later and see what happens
<TJ-> Got to clear some space for an LV where it can be put
<TJ-> maszlo: dinner time here so I'll be back later
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-10-25
<Bashing-om> chromium-browser (62.0.3202.62-0ubuntu0.16.04.1308) is on the street :)
<Bashing-om> !info chromium-browser xenial
<ubot5> chromium-browser (source: chromium-browser): Chromium web browser, open-source version of Chrome. In component universe, is optional. Version 62.0.3202.62-0ubuntu0.16.04.1308 (xenial), package size 58837 kB, installed size 233665 kB
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> WB lotuspsychje :)
<lotuspsychje> ty Bashing-om
<lotuspsychje> stil silent in main
<jink> Morning, lovely people and lotuspsychje.  (see what I did there?)
<lotuspsychje> hey jink
<Bashing-om> Good nite , I leave it with yall \o
<lordievader> Good morning
<lotuspsychje> hey lordievader
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje how are you?
<lordievader> Whats is your plan for today?
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: work at 11, now chilling a bit :p
<lotuspsychje> you?
<lordievader> Work with driving lessons in between ;)
<lotuspsychje> taking lessons or give?
<lordievader> Taking
<lotuspsychje> car?
<lordievader> Yes. It was about time I got a driving license :)
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: good luck mate
<lordievader> Haha, thanks
<lotuspsychje> =O==O=
<lordievader> I've put on an appropriate tshirt: https://akademy.kde.org/sites/akademy.kde.org/files/2016/akademy2016-tshirt.png
<jink> lordievader: :)
<Ben64> lol, bionic beaver
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<ducasse> \o BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hey ducasse
<EriC^^> hey BluesKaj ducasse o/
<BluesKaj> hey EriC^^
<EriC^^> how's it going?
<ducasse> \o EriC^^
<BluesKaj> good here EriC^^,just relaxing with morning coffee, how about you?
<EriC^^> kind of hungry, going to eat something for lunch
<ducasse> good idea, /me also needs food
<BluesKaj> one has to eat
<ducasse> been too busy paying bills etc. sooo much fun :-/
<BluesKaj> gotta reboot, have a glitch on the desktop and panel ,unresponsivee
<BluesKaj> ok, deleted quicklaunch widget from the panel, now all is well. The devels are working on it
<EriC^^> daftykins would enjoy this one
<EriC^^> termbin ... no thanks.... hdd model .. XXXXX... UUID ... some weird unicode i didnt even know existed
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<BluesKaj> Hi pauljw
<pauljw> ;)
<EriC^^> hey pauljw :)
<BluesKaj> EriC^^, that guy seems quite secretive about hiding his mistakes :-)
<EriC^^> he thinks people can know stuff from his hdd model and uuid
<EriC^^> and termbin .. when he saw netcat he was like whoa! nc!?
<EriC^^> no thanks
<BluesKaj> yeah, noticed that
<EriC^^> i'm thinking of just dropping it, he's making it really difficult
<pauljw> if he won't cooperate, he doesn't need your help.
<BluesKaj> don't understand his attempts without a method to make the iso bootable in the first palce
<daftykins> EriC^^: hehe what's that one? :)
<EriC^^> daftykins: there was a guy in ubuntu who wouldn't use termbin, removed the hdd model from parted and removed all the uuid's when asked for blkid :D
<EriC^^> https://ghostbin.com/paste/8pcs7
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> don't you mount my disks from the other side of the world! :)
<EriC^^> haha xD
<ducasse> EriC^^: he seemed pretty scared when you put nc termbin in that command line :D
<EriC^^> haha yeah
<BluesKaj> ppl hiding linux from the booss on their workstations trying to boot linux with grub on a sdcatrd
<BluesKaj> booss=boss
<EriC^^> lol, it would be kind of sad if i helped some guy "hack" his boss's data or something
 * BluesKaj wonders if that could work
<EriC^^> this is why i like to avoid the 'hi i've a pc that doesn't work and i use encryption'
<daftykins> XD ah if we all had 1 USD or local currency unit for every time someones encrypted setup had gone wrong
<EriC^^> yeah it's always such a proverbial fest
<daftykins> or just pretty much any user that installs non-LTS releases then breaks it on upgrade
<BluesKaj> +.0.
<BluesKaj> oops
 * BluesKaj just encrypts his password list file
<nicomachus> Just got my new Moto x4 :D
<daftykins> o0
<daftykins> 5x dead?
<nicomachus> No, not this one at least. lol. But I'm getting $150 credit on my phone bill for trading in the 5x for this one. And it's just a better phone all around.
<nicomachus> extra gig of ram, bigger battery, no known bricking issues
<nicomachus> my gf got one too to replace her Nexus 6, which was getting WAY old
<daftykins> looks too minor to me
<nicomachus> the trade-in value is what really sold it.
<nicomachus> we're not going to have a phone bill for like 3 months.
<nicomachus> plus, ever since 8.0, I've been averaging 96% RAM usage. so the extra gig is a big deal
<daftykins> that's a real stretch justification :)
<nicomachus> why?
 * BluesKaj just pays as he goes , of it's just a phone and sometimes a camera to me ...but I'm old .....school
<EriC^^> i'm having a hard time getting my pizza crust to brown
<BluesKaj> of=of course
<EriC^^> i can't figure it out, with other dough if i let it sit with low temperature it eventually gets brown, with the pizza if i let it sit the cheese gets all weird
<nacc> EriC^^: it helps (iirc) to oil the crust a bit
<EriC^^> nacc: yup i saw that on google, i gave it a go and no dice
<nacc> EriC^^: hrm
<EriC^^> right now i have a pizza, i put it in the middle it's almost done, i just put the temp lower and waiting (the cheese is done too
<EriC^^> i'm hoping maybe if i almost turn it off and leave it there eventually the convection will get the crust brown and not screw the cheese over?
<daftykins> RAM is there to be used
<nacc> EriC^^: this is a from scratch pizza?
<EriC^^> nacc: you mean made completely from scratch? yes
<nacc> EriC^^: yeah
<nacc> EriC^^: did you par-bake the crust first?
<nicomachus> daftykins: it is, but when the Android system uses 75% of it, apps don't get much. And when high-RAM usage games start crashing every coupla minutes... it's a problem.
<EriC^^> nacc: nope
<EriC^^> should i give that a go next time?
<nacc> EriC^^: i recommned it in the future :) it makes it a lot easier to get the toppings annd crust to cook the right amount at the same time (and keeps it from getting soggy)
<daftykins> nicomachus: works for me :)
<EriC^^> nacc: cool, thanks :) i'll try it out next time for sure
<daftykins> oh games, lol i never play games on my phones
<nacc> EriC^^: i'm trying to recall if there are any other tricks we do ... the biggest issues we hit are moisture in toppings (so e.g., mushrooms, you want to cook separately, imo)
<nacc> EriC^^: and i'm pretty sure we oil the bits of the crust that aren't covered by toppings
<EriC^^> aha
<EriC^^> i love mushrooms on it
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<lotuspsychje> anyone knows a device that can detect movement and give email warnings of some kind?
<ducasse> hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> my aunt gets a bit old, and she's looking to warn me on some way
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
<ducasse> an rpi with a camera
<nicomachus> daftykins: this phone shipped with 7.1.1, which is odd. idk why it's not 8.0
<nicomachus> lotuspsychje: NEST has some products for that, or you can set up an rpi with a camera like ducasse suggests
<lotuspsychje> would that be like 24/7 monitoring cam or so?
<daftykins> yeah saw that on the gsmarena.com page
<daftykins> lotus \o
<lotuspsychje> hey daftykins & nicomachus :p
<nicomachus> daftykins: I figured that would be for other versions, but not the Android One/Project Fi software version. Odd.
<lotuspsychje> the idea would be if something happens, i get warned by email or so
<nicomachus> lotuspsychje: it can be 24/7 if you set it up for that.
<lotuspsychje> nicomachus: hmm not bad idea https://nest.com/nl/cameras/nest-cam-iq-indoor/overview/
<lotuspsychje> bbl
<nacc> troll city today in #ubuntu, ducasse ?
<leftyfb> looks like it
<ducasse> jeeez, sewage city
<leftyfb>  Kendo_Cocaine is another troll
<ducasse> i can see that :)
<leftyfb> actually, might not be. But isn't helping things
<nicomachus> actual troll joins in...
<nacc> sigh
<nicomachus> interesting day, nacc?
<nicomachus> I just peeked in after your 12:53 message
<nacc> i don't know why i bother in #ubuntu on days like today
 * daftykins waves from his desert island of exile
<daftykins> :)
<leftyfb> kick them all, let their parents deal with them
<daftykins> it's nice here...
<nacc> daftykins: heh
<Thunder_Tw> What a day
<Thunder_Tw> troll fest
<TJ-> interesting alternative to the clear-screen command :)
<TJ-> I've been following the bug report covering kernels not being autoremoved for some time. someone reported a system with 74 kernels, 65 header packages, and 93 extras. Eevn stressed out the inode limit on the root FS.
<daftykins> i've had a few fixes in #ubuntu due to that over the years :)
<daftykins> bold upgraders
<TJ-> I suggested years ago we enhance the boot-good code to timestamp and increment a per-kernel-version counter and use that to make decisions on which kernels it is safe to remove. The boot-good code is a communication from Linux to GRUB so GRUB knows whether to wait at its boot menu due to a previous failed boot. I'm feeling like I'm going to write the code and try to get it adopted.
<daftykins> sounds like a plan, it's a really boring chore sitting and purging old kernels when a new comes out - i do it by hand so the dpkg output is clean
<TJ-> apt autoremove should be sufficient in most cases
<daftykins> seemed to be the source packages that got to the inode limit sooner
<daftykins> err or do i mean headers, probably headers
<TJ-> headers yes
<TJ-> -image- also installs the modules under /lib/modules/$(uname -r) which takes a lot too
<TJ-> I was thinking the best way to do it is a virtual package that declares Depends: on each kernel version. When a kernel can be released for removal it is removed from the Depends: entry of the virtual package.
<TJ-> the only problem there is Debian isn't designed to have the package's local control file dynamically updated so I can envisage a lot of resistance from other devs
<akik> wouldn't a simple solution be "refuse to install kernel if not enough space" ?
<akik> that seems to be a bigger problem
<TJ-> well in theory that should already happen because each package declares its installed size, specifically to check there's space
<daftykins> only if someone is hanging onto a separate /boot partition scenario
<TJ-> The problem is that can't account for the dynamically built initrd images
<TJ-> and dkms doesn't help because it creates, and leaves behind, initrd-*.dkms-old images too
<daftykins> can only imagine how long a new install lasted for that user you mentioned given the rebuilds XD
<akik> it has bitten me on this laptop with a separate /boot
<daftykins> stop using one then :) i did
<TJ-> the reason the devs have resisted they're afraid they could cause an older kernel that the user is still booting from to be removed.
<TJ-> That's why I think the solution is to have a combined counter/timestamp per-kernel-version and use that to determine the removals
<TJ-> combined with a helper that lists the kernels and asks the user which they approve of being removed (showing the boot count and last boot date) would help alot
<akik> i found one guide that was about having /boot also encrypted but didn't try to do it yet. my /boot is unencrypted
<TJ-> All mine are
<TJ-> I've always thought there's no point encrypting root and others if you leave the initrd open to be changed
<akik> this is the guide i found http://www.pavelkogan.com/2014/05/23/luks-full-disk-encryption/
<TJ-> That looks very confusing!
<TJ-> All you need is to encrypt /boot/ ensure it is mounted and the kernels/grub/ are all copied into it so it is ready, then edit /etc/default/grub and add "GRUB_ENABLE_CRYPTODISK=y" and then "sudo update-grub"
<daftykins> "luks" confusing? ;D
<TJ-> and then "sudo grub-install" to write the new core-image that has the luks/dm-crypt module added
<TJ-> This won't work on UEFI systems using Secure Boot with the Canonical keys because those grubx64.efi images are signed by canonical and, last time I checked, they're not including the luks and cipher modules in their image. If you manage your own SB key with MOK, you can sign the image of course
<akik> really that simple?
<TJ-> akik: yup. I've been running all my systems like this since at least 2010
<akik> thanks need to test it soonish
<TJ-> akik: the only drawback for standard packages is that it only support LUKS passphrases, not key-files, currently, although there are patches for GRUB to support keyfiles. Doesn't help much since systemd-cryptsetup doesn't support keyfiles either (that has to be ripped out so you can use the original cryptsetup initrd/init scripts for key-file support)
<TJ-> akik: play in a small VM image
<akik> TJ-: i noticed some months ago that i needed to add the lvm module into the initrd even though i'm not using lvm
<akik> just basic partitions
<akik> in /etc/initramfs-tools/modules
<TJ-> it'll be included if LVM is in use but not otherwise.
<TJ-> I generally reduce the size of the initrd considerably by setting MODULES=dep rather than MODULES-most so it doesn't copy in all those modules the system will never need during initrd.
<TJ-> it makes a very big difference
<TJ-> Then because my systems are using  key-file patches I use /etc/initramfs-tools/modules to include modules for usb mass-storage and usbhid (keyboard) support, and file-systems, and so on, to ensure key-file devices can be found and read
<akik> TJ-: did you mean your system had systemd-cryptsetup? i don't have that package
<TJ-> it's part of systemd: /lib/systemd/systemd-cryptsetup
<TJ-> akik: it reads the /etc/cryptab and has a generator to cause the startup prompt for the passphrase (via plymouth)
<TJ-> see e.g. "dpkg -L systemd | grep cryptsetup"
<akik> TJ-: so you removed that file?
<TJ-> akik: there's a bit more to it than that :) I intend to put a script together soonish and publish it since Poettering refuses to implement key-file support
<akik> ok i'm happy to enter the password manually
<TJ-> I've been toying with patches to allow GRUB to get the key over the network. initrd can already do that via a key-script
<akik> i'm not sure though, i have a keyfile opening /dev/mapper/swap in /etc/crypttab
<TJ-> that uses an ephemeral key though (swap)
<TJ-> doesn't it? or you mean you've added that yourself?
<akik> yes after the initial setup
<akik> swap UUID=bd2f23d1-ef8d-4883-b6bf-ea78e8bf515b /root/swapkey luks,discard
<TJ-> I don't bother with swap nowadays. I've not seen a need for it now we have oodles of RAM
<akik> some do :)
<TJ-> It only gets used for hibernamte
<akik> 8 gigs is plenty for me
<TJ-> I've not found need for more than that on any desktop/dev machine. For servers it helps to have more though, especially now they're running lots of containers/VMs
<nicomachus> 8 is plenty here. 4 was too little, but 8 has been great. now I'm bottlenecking at the CPU and thermals.
<TJ-> yes, I find 8GB + SSD is fine on systems going back 10 years. I use such for my main workstation (the one with 6 monitors) and it's never held me back
<akik> TJ-: what does a six monitor setup look like?
<akik> i saw that samsung super ultra wide display and went woaaaahhhh
<TJ-> akik http://iam.tj/photos/Study-workstation.jpg
<nicomachus> TJ-: are you driving all those with that little laptop?
<TJ-> nicomachus: yes. It has a ViDock attached to its ExpressCard port, and there's an Nvidia NVS420 4-output GPU in that (under the desk!) The internal Nvidia GPU also drives an external monitor via HDMI
<TJ-> these Dell XPS laptops are incredibly expandable. Three full mini-pcie expansion bays with an easy-access flap and a SIM-card slot too (dual-band wifi, cellular modem, etc)
<TJ-> 1920x1200 res on all 6 screens
<Bashing-om> Build it ^^ and they will come :)
<nicomachus> TJ-: ah, I see. impressive little machine there, then.
<leftyfb> another troll?
<TJ-> nicomachus: yeah. I have several of them all configured identically
<daftykins> which model XPS?
<daftykins> my 13 isn't like that :> but it is ace
<TJ-> XPS m1530
<TJ-> daftykins: this should interest you. Windows kernel-mode ZFS driver:  https://github.com/lundman/zfsin
<daftykins> o0
<TJ-> daftykins: and Hacker News commentary: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15549190
<Drunkhawk91> Hi
<Bashing-om> Drunkhawk91: :) .. TJ- will be with you in short order .
<TJ-> Drunkhawk91: hiya
<TJ-> Drunkhawk91: There's a fatal error in that DSDT when trying to compile it.
<Drunkhawk91> TJ-: when recompiling the DSDT.dsl ?
<TJ-> Yes
<Drunkhawk91> I had several warnings but no errors
<TJ-> Before you go to that step, did you install the latest firmware? The post in the forum thread you linked to says firmware v221 contains the fix
<TJ-> Drunkhawk91: I get this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/25820098/
<Drunkhawk91> yes that was the first thing I tried, BIOS v221
<TJ-> Drunkhawk91: maybe you can make the required change to your DSDT.dsl that is required. Open it in an edito
<TJ-> Drunkhawk91: v221 didn't fix it for you? where "it" is no Wifi ?
<Drunkhawk91> the wifi worked almost out the box with proper firmware
<Drunkhawk91> but microSD card still undetected
<TJ-> Drunkhawk91: hmmm, well that fix is for the address of the wireless, isn't it?
<TJ-> did you increment the the revision number in the DefinitionBlock ?
<Drunkhawk91> TJ-: according to https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1667544#p1667544 it might fix the SD issue too
<Drunkhawk91> TJ-: Yes I did
<TJ-> Drunkhawk91: OK, that's the important bit then!
<Drunkhawk91> TJ-: that's my output after recompiling modified dsl
<Drunkhawk91> http://paste.ubuntu.com/25820131/
<TJ-> Drunkhawk91: excuse me if I give you instructions you've already done, but this is how it is done:
<TJ-> mkdir -p kernel/firmware/acpi
<TJ-> cp dsdt.aml kernel/firmware/acpi
<TJ-> find kernel | cpio -H newc --create > ./initrd_prefix
<TJ-> cat ./initrd_prefix /boot/initrd.img-$(uname -r) >./initrd.img-$(uname -r)
<TJ-> then backup the existing initrd: "sudo mv /boot/initrd.img-$(uname -r) /boot/initrd.img-$(uname -r).backup"
<TJ-> and finally put your modification in its place: "sudo cp ./initrd.img-$(uname -r) /boot/"
<TJ-> In *theory* on next reboot with that kernel version, the newer DSDT should replace the firmware's version
<TJ-> Drunkhawk91: not changes required to the GRUB config at all
<TJ-> Drunkhawk91: so if you've done any of that, remove it all
<TJ-> s/not/no/
<Drunkhawk91> I'm rebooting!
<Drunkhawk91> TJ-: ACPI: Table Upgrade: override [DSDT-_ASUS_-Notebook] :)
<Drunkhawk91> TJ-: but still doesn't fix this SD card issue (I got mmc2 errors in dmesg)
<Drunkhawk91> TJ-: but no more ACPI warnings/errors in dmesg! Thanks a lot!
<TJ-> Drunkhawk91: well at least you got the ACPI solved. you're the first person I know of to have used that method
<TJ-> Drunkhawk91: can you "pastebinit <( dmesg )"
<Drunkhawk91> http://paste.ubuntu.com/25820196/
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-10-26
<Drunkhawk91> TJ-: Yes there are several issues with these asus T100* transformerbooks
<Drunkhawk91> TJ-: but X server, wifi and sound worked almost out the box for me
<TJ-> Drunkhawk91: I think I know a fix for your problem. If I'm correct, it's a very common problem with ACPI DSDTs being customised only for Windows by the manufacturers. It's so comon I've written an article about it which contains some shell commands to apply a workaround. Read  http://iam.tj/prototype/enhancements/Windows-acpi_osi.html
<dax> 23:41 < TJ-> can we preemptively protect #ubuntu-discuss, if it hasn't been already?
<dax> yes, if y'all consider it necessary, but he's not hitting enough of the namespace that i'd assume he's gonna hit here
<dax> if it does start up, anyone with an ubuntu/member/* cloak can do: /msg chanserv op #ubuntu-discuss, then /mode #ubuntu-discuss +rq $~a
<dax> to do the same thing me and Unit193 have been doing
<TJ-> dax: it looked like the spammer might be cycling through all the channels. When they do that the generally hit all channels eventually :)
<dax> we'll see. he's stopped for a bit, either out of boredom or because he's getting a fresh batch ready, who knows
<Sveta> TJ-: clearly the solution is for you to apply to ubuntu membership :)
<dax> +r probably wouldn't be a terrible idea since y'all are pretty much all identified with nickserv, but i'd rather not set it unilaterally just yet
<Drunkhawk91> TJ-: I also read somewhere about acpi_osi, I'll try your script to see if there are any changes (microSD, suspend, jack detection, auto brightness, etc ..)
<TJ-> Sveta: I've avoided that for 12 years; I'm not going to start now
<daftykins> he's a maverick! he doesn't always do things the conventional way, but boy does he get the job done ;)
<Sveta> TJ-: what are the drawbacks from your perspective?
<Sveta> daftykins: :)
<TJ-> I prefer being indepedent
<Sveta> membership involves a cabal of some sort? or you prefer to not be affiliated with a particular entity, even if these entities do not limit you?
<TJ-> I prefer being indepedent
<Drunkhawk91> TJ-: no improvement with acpi_osi=Windows 2015, but got few more to try :)
<TJ-> Drunkhawk91: you have got double-quotes surrounding that option haven't you? check with "cat /proc/cmdline"
<TJ-> Drunkhawk91: without them the option is not correct
<TJ-> Drunkhawk91: I'd generally stick with the latest version the DSDT OSI claims. It'll enable the most functionality. Have you thought of testing a mainline 4.14 release candidate kernel incase there are improvements there?
<Drunkhawk91> TJ-: Nope I didnt try 4.14 and indeed the option is not passed
<TJ-> Drunkhawk91: OK, let's get acpi_osi fixed first. It fixes so many things
<TJ-> Drunkhawk91: "pastebinit /etc/default/grub"
<Drunkhawk91> TJ-: GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="fbcon=rotate:3 acpi_osi=! \"acpi_osi=Windows 2015\""
<TJ-> Drunkhawk91: well that is correct! You say it isn't shown by "cat /proc/cmdline"
<TJ-> Drunkhawk91: did you do "sudo update-grub" before rebooting?
<Drunkhawk91> TJ-: the script did yes
<TJ-> hmm, check it added it to the grub config with "grep acpi_osi= /boot/grub/grub.cfg"
<Drunkhawk91> http://paste.ubuntu.com/25820338/
<TJ-> Drunkhawk91: looks like the grub.cfg doesn't have it.
<Drunkhawk91> nope indeed it did not
<TJ-> do "sudo update-grub"
<TJ-> then "pastebinit <( grep acpi_osi /boot/grub/grub.cfg )"
<Drunkhawk91> empty document for pastebinit, no output from grep
<Drunkhawk91> he doesn't want to pass the option
<TJ-> Hmmm!
<TJ-> Drunkhawk91: find /boot -type f -name grub.cfg"
<TJ-> I'm wondering if yours is in the EFI SP under /boot/efi/
<Drunkhawk91> /boot/efi/EFI/ubuntu/grub.cfg
<Drunkhawk91> /boot/grub/grub.cfg
<TJ-> Hmmm, so, "grep -n acpi_osi /boot/grub/grub.cfg /boot/efi/EFI/ubuntu/grub.cfg"
<Drunkhawk91> nowhere
<TJ-> when you run update-grub do you see it list a bunch of kernel versions etc it's adding?
<TJ-> In your fiddling about to get the initrd to include the DSDT is it possible you've broken the generating scripts in /etc/grub.d/ ?
<Drunkhawk91> he found /boot/vmlinuz-4.13.0-16-generic boot/initrd.img-4.13.0-16-generic and added two boot menu entry for EFI firmware conf
<TJ-> I think I recall seeing mention of /etc/grub.d/05_acpi or some-such.
<TJ-> oh, hang on. Is this Secure Boot?
<Drunkhawk91> I remove xx_acpi from grub.d
<Drunkhawk91> I got secure boot disabled in BIOS
<TJ-> but you're using the -signed files. I *think* the problem could be that grub.cfg has to also be signed to be used
<TJ-> I'm not sure if GRUB drops that requirement if SB is disabled but you're using the signed version
<Drunkhawk91> it's strange because i add the option fbcon=rotate:3 and it appears in cat /proc/cmdline
<Drunkhawk91> I added it manually in /etc/default/grub
<TJ-> yes, that is very strange
<TJ-> right, let's be silly. Edit /etc/default/grub yourself, add "debug" to GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX  *after* the acpi_osi settings, do "sudo update-grub", and then see if that was added with "grep -n debug /boot/grub/grub.cfg /boot/efi/EFI/ubuntu/grub.cfg"
<Drunkhawk91> GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="fbcon=rotate:3 acpi_osi=! \"acpi_osi=Windows 2015\" debug"
<Drunkhawk91> no debug either
<Drunkhawk91> this line must be wrong
<TJ-> there must be something in the /etc/grub.d/ scripts failing to copy the value correctly for some reason. I've never come across this before
<Drunkhawk91> I don't remember having modify any script except adding xx_acpi (removed now)
<Drunkhawk91> I'll try remove my fbcon=rotate:3 and update to see
<TJ-> Drunkhawk91: before you do that... show us "pastebinit <( grep GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX /etc/grub.d/* )"
<TJ-> Drunkhawk91: I want to check if there's any code referring to that variable that shouldn't be there
<Drunkhawk91> Even if I comment the whole line it doesn't update correctly
<Drunkhawk91> http://paste.ubuntu.com/25820418/
<TJ-> the scripts in /etc/grub.d - 10_linux specifically, use that
<TJ-> errr... you're missing 10_linux!
<Drunkhawk91> i got 10_linux_proxy
<TJ-> is this ubuntu 17.10 ?
<Drunkhawk91> yes
<TJ-> Not sure where that came from but I cannot find it in any package in 17.10
<TJ-> Drunkhawk91: what does "apt list grub-common" report
<Drunkhawk91> grub-common/artful,now 2.02~beta3-4ubuntu7 amd64  [installÃ©]
<TJ-> this is the list of files in that package: note 10_linux, and no 10_linux_proxy. You've changed something on there at some point, which means grub can no longer generate its config.  https://packages.ubuntu.com/artful/amd64/grub-common/filelist
<TJ-> hmmm, does "grub_customizer" ring any bells?
<Drunkhawk91> yes!
<TJ-> Grrrr
<TJ-> do you see anything like this (bug report for customizer) https://bugs.launchpad.net/grub-customizer/+bug/1518495
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1518495 in Grub Customizer "fails saving grub configuration" [Undecided,New]
<Drunkhawk91> I will ban this kind of package, I knew it could be a bad idea
<TJ-> :) please do, it makes our job 10x harder
<Drunkhawk91> TJ-: nope no errors
<TJ-> Drunkhawk91: well, you need to figure out where installing grub_customizer moved your 10_linux too, and get it back. Try removing grub_customizer and if 10_linux doesn't reappear do "sudo apt-get --reinstall install grub-common"
<Drunkhawk91> TJ-:had a backup folder in /etc/grub.d/ with all grub.d/ scripts, /boot/grub/ and /etc/default/grub
<TJ-> Drunkhawk91: aha!
<Drunkhawk91> TJ-: should i manually remove all the _proxy scripts?
<TJ-> If grub_customizer was installed using apt I'd use that to *purge* it too
<TJ-> else you'll get the system in a mess
<Drunkhawk91> TJ-: it didn't clean /etc/grub.d/
<TJ-> Drunkhawk91: crap package!
<TJ-> you'll have to remove all those weird bits, then to be sure "sudo apt-get --reinstall install grub-common"
<Drunkhawk91> TJ-: it was a mess, it didn't want to update-grub but I reinstalled grub properly
<Drunkhawk91> TJ-: I have acpi passed to /boot/grub/grub.cfg
<Drunkhawk91> TJ-: rebooting
<Drunkhawk91> TJ-: still no improvements ACPI Error: 3 table load failures, 8 successful (20170531/tbxfload-246)
<TJ-> is acpi_osi showing up in /proc/cmdline now
<Drunkhawk91> TJ-: but my dumb grub mistakes are solved, thank you for that :)
<Drunkhawk91> yes
<TJ-> :)
<TJ-> how's the SD card reader?
<Drunkhawk91> no detection
<TJ-> Hmmmph
<Drunkhawk91> mmc2: card never left busy state
<Drunkhawk91> had these errors before using modified DSDT too
<TJ-> sounds more likely the linux driver for that chip isn't complete then
<TJ-> show us another "pastebinit <( dmesg )"
<Drunkhawk91> http://paste.ubuntu.com/25820670/
<TJ-> does the card work in other devices?
<Drunkhawk91> yes
<TJ-> it looks, from my searches, that this could be a kernel regression sometime in the last 5 months or so, judging by other reports
<Drunkhawk91> hmm i have a doubt now, it worked on my phone but never worked on this computer (in windows 10)
<TJ-> The commit description in this seems to offer an explanation of what might be happening https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/fa.linux.kernel/7MsrntjpRnM
<Drunkhawk91> TJ-:maybe that's why some users use patched kernels for all this laptop issues https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1700679#p1700679
<Drunkhawk91> TJ-: but far too hard for me, I'll learn more about kernels and patches before doing anything stupid
<TJ-> have you tested suspend/resume now you have acpi_osi set? that is one of many things that setting should fix
<Drunkhawk91> yes, it can suspend but wifi disabled (no more wlan0) when resume
<TJ-> check /var/log/syslog for clues on that
<TJ-> Volker mentioning CONFIG_PMIC_OPREGION in the last post in that thread rather confirms what I thought from that patch I referenced - PMIC is Power Management Integrated Circuit.
<TJ-> so it looks like the IC maker hasn't published the datasheet for that IC and the driver writers are having to guess
<Drunkhawk91> best option seems to wait calmly so
<Drunkhawk91> at least I got wifi, touchpad, touchscreen, audio (speakers only) and X working
<Drunkhawk91> TJ-: Anyway, thanks a lot for your time and help! Learn many things today :)
<TJ-> hang on!
<TJ-> I'm reading the DSDT and I just spotted a possible reason
<TJ-> line 8989... the behaviour of  SDHC depends on the value of OSID. I suspect that is set based on the OSI
<Drunkhawk91> can we know the expected OSI value or we have to try them all?
<TJ-> line 16086 has the INIt() function, there you'll see how the OSI name affects the value it sets in OSYS, and you'll see how the highest value is set for the latest version of Windows
<TJ-> if we can correlate whether OSID gets set based on an OSYS value we can figure out which path that code will be taking, and possibly change the OSI to make it take the other path
<TJ-> Can't see anything setting that value, only testing it.
<TJ-> must be set from somewhere else
<TJ-> OSID looks like it could be a bit flag because I only see tests for values 1 2 4 8
<TJ-> I'm convinced that's it. If you read the SDHC's ABUF and WBUF resources you'll see they are quite different
<TJ-> different GPIO pin lists
<TJ-> and _CRS() returns one or the other based on OSID
<Drunkhawk91> other T100* users are using acpi_osi command line option
<Drunkhawk91> with Windows2012 as osi name
<Drunkhawk91> https://github.com/jonpry/t100_patches
<Drunkhawk91> but it might not be the same exact model
<TJ-> right. you could try it, but if they've coded Windows 2015 in it and we can see it sets the highest value of OSYS that will almost always means the most functions are enabled
<TJ-> And I've read hundreds of DSDTs; I used to specialise on the ACPI code in the kernel about 10 years ago
<TJ-> From my brief reading of the DSDT it looks to me like the wrong PMIC setup is being run, and possibly the wrong GPIO settings (via the ABUF/WBUF configs)
<TJ-> I have to go now, it's past 4am!
<TJ-> I've got a T300CHI here but not had any problems with it
<Drunkhawk91> TJ-: Have a good night and thank you again for everything!
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> hows the night been Bashing-om
<lotuspsychje> artful rush already over?
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: :) .. been slow over all . a couple of interesting posts though . Yaeh the initial shock is wearing off on artful :)
<lotuspsychje> kk
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> morning all
<Bashing-om> ducasse: WB :)
<lordievader> Hey ducasse , Bashing-om
<lordievader> How are you guys?
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: As I am on irc .. can not be too bad :) You got a big day planned ?
<lordievader> Some meetings, not much more ;)
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Personal interaction .. can be a good thing - make a good day .
<ducasse> hiya lordievader, Bashing-om - how are you guys today?
<lordievader> Doing good here, ducasse :)
<ducasse> incredibly foggy here, the world outside is just a grey blur
<lordievader> Good reason to keep the curtains closed ;)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: All the more reason to irc :)
<ducasse> Bashing-om: yep, i'm certainly staying inside, at least :)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Fur Baby does not want to get the paws wet anyway .
<ducasse> Bashing-om: mine neither. just as well, being grey she would just disappear in the fog, worrisome if she wanders onto the road
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Perish the thought !
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse & lordievader
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: cool :p https://akademy.kde.org/sites/akademy.kde.org/files/2016/akademy2016-tshirt.png
<lordievader> :)
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje
<jink> 'sup, kids? :)
<lotuspsychje> yow daddy
<ducasse> good morning lotuspsychje
<jink> Heh.
<ducasse> \o jink
<jink> o/ ducasse
<lotuspsychje> !beaver
<ubot5> Ubuntu 18.04 (Bionic Beaver) will be the 28th release of Ubuntu - Announcement at http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1518 - Discussion in #ubuntu+1
<lotuspsychje> yayyyy
<EriC^^> morning all
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
<EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
<EriC^^> how's it going?
<lotuspsychje> the next LTS to bug out
<lotuspsychje> great here mate bout you EriC^^ ?
<dax> hey look we got a release schedule
<EriC^^> doing good, just woke up
<lotuspsychje> dax: where?
<EriC^^> bionic beaver, nice :D
<dax> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BionicBeaver/ReleaseSchedule (and #u+1 topic)
<lotuspsychje> ah tnx mate
<lotuspsychje> lets autojoin again
<lotuspsychje> dax: at wich step, daily images will be available?
<dax> when the toolchain gets uploaded they'll start generating and getting put in pending. if it's like last cycle, we'll then be waiting a few days for all the autotest failures to get fixed, and then it'll get moved to current and linked in +1
<lotuspsychje> cool
<dax> (pending and current referring to the subfolders of http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/ )
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-18-04-lts-dubbed-as-the-bionic-beaver-launches-april-26-2018-518186.shtml
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: is the build-essential stuff also on the iso?
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: i think all is there, to make a working broadcom with the restricted-extras
<ducasse> sounds reasonable
<lotuspsychje> !info build-essential
<ubot5> build-essential (source: build-essential): Informational list of build-essential packages. In component main, is optional. Version 12.1ubuntu2 (xenial), package size 4 kB, installed size 20 kB
<lotuspsychje> optional hmm
<dax> the package list for the livecds is at e.g. http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/artful-desktop-amd64.manifest
<ducasse> ah, brilliant - thanks
<ducasse> nah, no build stuff
<dax> gcc's in there. build-essential isn't.
<lotuspsychje> ah
<dax> i assume there's some other place to get that list, i don't see it in the folder for the final release isos
<ducasse> i only looked for build-essential and make
<dax> i think someone pointed me at it once but no idea where it was :)
<lotuspsychje> nite nite Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Good nite lotuspsychje and all .. take care see yall on the flip :)
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: https://www.deviantart.com/art/i3-on-Manjaro-Oct-2017-711589839
<dax> oh, there are .manifests in the final release folders, i must have scrolled past them :\
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: not to my taste, but... :)
<lotuspsychje> bbl work guys :p
<ducasse> dax: the manifest should include all packages on the iso, right? i'm a bit confused here...
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<EriC^^> heya BluesKaj
<EriC^^> o/
<BluesKaj> Hey EriC^^    \o
<BluesKaj> ok Bionic Beaver chainloader is in the repos
<nicomachus> I'm really not a fan of gnome requiring me to go to a website to update my extensions.
<nicomachus> And the popups that say "This extension is out of date" or whatever won't open the link in Firefox. It has to be in done in Chromium AFAICT
<oerheks> huh? i usually ignore those messages ..
<nicomachus> then your gnome extensions are out of date. lol
<oerheks> "your flash is out of date, jaba jaba"
<nicomachus> no, not flash. gnome extensions.
<nicomachus> extensions.gnome.org
<nacc> yeah
<nacc> nicomachus: i *think* it's hard to do anything else though
<nacc> nicomachus: i guess they could be snaps
<oerheks> oh.. is this new in 17.10?
<nacc> but that's still an open feature
<nacc> oerheks: it's a gnome thing
<nacc> the distro ships some extensions (iirc)
<nicomachus> oh, now I see why it didn't work with firefox. I forgot you have to have a stupid BROWSER EXTENSION to do it. which I installed in Chromium but not Firefox.
<nacc> but the SRU process gates those packages getting updated
<nicomachus> nacc: there *has* to be a better way.
<nacc> and the upstream updates are usually not bugfixes
<nacc> they are new versions
<nacc> nicomachus: don't run gnome?
<nacc> much like ... everything .. gnome wants their own flow to all distros
<nacc> just like go and go-get
<nicomachus> nacc: ha, I guess that's a solution
<nacc> or python and pypi
<nacc> everybody does this meta-distribution stuff these days
<nacc> which makes being a distro *really* hard
<nicomachus> I've gotten to like gnome though. as much as my rice/unixporn friends talk crap all day.
<nacc> nicomachus: yeah, the UX is overall pretty nice
<nicomachus> after I spent some time on it. haha
<nacc> yeah
<nicomachus> stock gnome isn't so great. gnome with a few key extensions and tweaks is excellent.
<nacc> nicomachus: yep
<nacc> nicomachus: but that you can have a tweakable stock everywhere is good, imo
<nacc> nicomachus: ship a good base, let users do stuff to do it locally
<nicomachus> nacc: I can agree with that.
<nacc> nicomachus: esp. for 17.10
<nacc> nicomachus: i expect we'll see, hopefully, a bit more of a default tweaked experience in 18.04
<nacc> the big thing for 17.10 was just gettig folks migrated successfully, i think
<nicomachus> I'm still on 16.04
<nacc> nicomachus: ah gnome ubuntu?
<oerheks> 17.04 here .. my unity
<nicomachus> but switched over to Gnome about 6 months ago
<nacc> oerheks: when do you plan to upgrade?
<nicomachus> because I knew it was coming, so figured I might as well jump in.
<nacc> nicomachus: tbh, i saw this coming a while ago and jus tinstalled gnome ubuntu from the get go :)
<oerheks> nacc, not, i will prepare an other machine to get known to gnome3
<nacc> oerheks: ah ok :)
<oerheks> somehow i refuse to upgrade
<nicomachus> I just installed the gnome-desktop package or whatever it was.
<nacc> nicomachus: yeah
<oerheks> when i read about systemd hardening ...
<oerheks> example: https://github.com/konstruktoid/hardening/blob/master/systemd.adoc
<oerheks> highly interesting
<nicomachus> my new moto x4 has some cool gesture controls. You can just wave your hand over the locked phone to have it show the lock screen and any notifications. I can't figure out how to get more gesture controls, though.
<nicomachus> there must be a way to add more functionality to that...
<TJ-> The implication being the camera is always watching you?
<nacc> TJ-: :)
<nacc> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsntlJZ9h1U
<nacc> the anthem of an older and newer generation (the latter just don't know it)
<TJ-> what's that?
<nacc> Private Eyes by Hall & Oates
<nacc> "Private Eyes ... are watching you"
<nacc> "they see your every move"
<TJ-> Ahhh. I don't touch youtube and I find videos very wasteful of bandwidth and low on information content :)
<TJ-> To me, a few words speak a thousand pictures :)
<nacc> TJ-: :)
<nacc> if i had a better way to make a song play on your system, i'd use it :)
<TJ-> You managed it ina few words :)
<TJ-> Trouble is, they're not private eyes in the threat sense... they're potential passing the data over the network to some entity where you have no control of what happens to it.
<nacc> yep
<nacc> and they presumably are also storing it
<nacc> which means there is biometric-esque data somewher in the cloud
<TJ-> You have to assume that
<TJ-> slightly off-topic, but on my Android-based (LineageOS) PDAs (I refuse to call them 'smart' or 'phones'!) I have AFWall+, Android Firewall installed. I only allow applications I know require network access. I also have it pop-up 'toast' notications whenever it blocks access. That is *very* revealing the extent of un-necessary network access by so many applications.
<nacc> TJ-: interesting!
<TJ-> We have open-source, we need the same for open-data - as in, we, the user/owner, are in control of it
<TJ-> Back in the late '90s I proposed one of my inventions/devlopments to the UK government - a nationwide federated identity scheme which had the subject in total control of who could access which aspects of the data stored on them (using cryptography, timed/count based access, and so forth). Unfortunately it never got anywhere because there was no foresight. The last few years we've finally got something
<TJ-> like it with federated ID checks, but it's opaque to the subjects and they have no control over the data held on them
<TJ-> I had written the entire thing so it was a real/live demonstration. The techies could see the benefits but the bearuacrats stymied the whole thing. I had the feeling then it was partially due to those in power not wanting to give control to the citizens. Since then that feeling has become reality in almost every country. Sleepwalking into the scenario in Orwell's '1984'
<nicomachus> daftykins: this makes it all worth it: https://i.imgur.com/ZEIf3Y3.png
<daftykins> nicomachus: heh, i don't see it the same way
<MYounis> Hello everyone!
<MYounis> Is greig and Fallen here? I treid making the Live Pendrive with Ubuntu as per the turorial on Ubuntu's site. Also tried setting nomodeset in boot. and also in grub file in live pendrive.
<MYounis> Still the laptop stucks at the black screen after grub.
<daftykins> as you can see the topic states this is not a support channel, so queries in #ubuntu please
<MYounis> daftykins I think something is messed up there too.
<MYounis> I don't see any users there
<nicomachus> MYounis: there's over 1000 people there.
<nicomachus> MYounis: /join #ubuntu
<dax> they're not identified to nickserv and #ubuntu is +r
<dax> !register
<ubot5> For information on registering your IRC nick, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat/Registration - For any further help, ask in #freenode.
<dax> or see the multiple messages in the -unregged channel you ended up in.
 * nicomachus wonders why this channel isn't +r tbh
<dax> nicomachus: because it isn't getting spam attacks and nobody with access to it (which is all cloaked ubuntu members plus some people) is sufficiently convinced/motivated to do it pre-emptively
<MYounis> Ok thanks.
<dax> MYounis: (you can also ask in #freenode (or probably also in here)) if you have questions, I'm about to wander off so -unregged probably won't be much help
<MYounis> thanks dax
<nicomachus> I've been using this phone pretty much ALL day and it's at 48% battery. :D
<nicomachus> 3h 0m 12s of screen time
<nicomachus> 1h 6m 8s of Pokemon GO (high battery usage), which includes 31m 43s of GPS usage
<oerheks> i am seriously afraid of pokemon .. Poke-Phobia
<oerheks> :-D
<oerheks> no, i suffer Chrometophobia
<nicomachus> it's a good time
<oerheks> There is always someone who helps me with that, thanks.
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-10-27
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
 * Bashing-om present lotuspsychje :)
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: You early ?
<lotuspsychje> yeah rainy outside waked me up
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Opposite . From my days of subsistent living .. rainy morning --- I could go back to sleep :)
<lotuspsychje> well when i get awake, cant sleep anymore
<Sveta> i woke up at 5am today for some reason and mom did too, we both couldn't sleep and i do not know why
<lotuspsychje> hey Sveta
<Sveta> hi
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Generally, same ..once awakened I am awake .. but a rainy morning .. My mind is at ease to sleep it off .
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: yeah escpecially when cold outside, warm in bed :p
<immu> hi all
<immu> afk
<jink> O HAI
<ducasse> good morning
<Bashing-om> WB ducasse : You have not missed much on my watch .
<ducasse> hi Bashing-om - good to hear, i'm hoping it will stay quiet for a while yet, give me time to get ready :)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: The good thing about responding to support . No one knows when you are at the terminal . On "your" time :)
<ducasse> Bashing-om: the good thing about irc is that you can just call it quits when you're fed up :)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: No pressure .. just our peers to be accountable to :)
<immu> ducasse, Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> immu: -
<immu> hi all
<lotuspsychje> bbl work, have a nice1 guys
<Bashing-om> Nite nite all
<immu> ok
<BluesKaj> hey folks
<BluesKaj> Hi EriC^^
<EriC^^> hi BluesKaj :)
<BluesKaj> the same ol' argument in ##linux again..difernce between distros , whata waste of energy
<daftykins> indeed, as long as it's not Mint it's almost all good :D
<BluesKaj> hehe
<BluesKaj> hey daftykins
<daftykins> greetings! what's new?
<BluesKaj> running 18.04 after the chainloader was loaded into the repos
<daftykins> ah ha
<BluesKaj> only a few packages so far
<daftykins> :> early days
<daftykins> at last a real release is to be worked on, LTS!
<BluesKaj> 17.10 is still buggy in plasmashell 5.11.2 and it continues in 18,04
<BluesKaj> yup, kde'plasma launcher is frozen again
<BluesKaj> gotta reboot
<BluesKaj> kde/plasma has a quicklanch widget that resides in the panel, which is actually very handy when it works, but when systems settings is launched from it and closed, that results in a frozen desktop.
<BluesKaj> using favs in the kmenu is almost as handy
<ducasse> BluesKaj: somehow i'm not surprised it was crazytux that brought up the distro thing again - i can't understand why they don't just ban him. he's banned everywhere else. :)
<BluesKaj> hehe, i think he's become a "pet" for someof  the guys there, they love giving him advice on various distros ....the rules in the ##linux chat are pquite lax anyway so it just continues
<BluesKaj> quite
<BluesKaj> btw , Hi ducasse :-)
<ducasse> it's just silly - "hi, is distro x more lightweight and user friendly than distro y?" - it never ends :)
<ducasse> and hi BluesKaj :)
<BluesKaj> also some suggest he try certain distros just to get rid of him
<BluesKaj> seems to have worked today at least
<ducasse> that's a good tactic :)
<BluesKaj> yup :-)
<BluesKaj> apparently it's opensuse today
<ducasse> i almost feel sorry for him, i hate suse...
<BluesKaj> yeah, wasn't my cuppa tea either
<BluesKaj> I tried arch agian for a few days , but it's networking files are really scaterred about for example ...didn't do much for me either
<ducasse> i'm so used to ubuntu now i probably won't switch completely in quite a while, plus if software is available for linux you can be certain it is available for ubuntu. and the kvm/libvirt packages are stable and good. but i run arch on my desktop.
<BluesKaj> yeah, kubuntu has been my main OS for 12 yrs,  probly be my fav for a long time to come
<BluesKaj> why do you run arch
<BluesKaj> ?
<daftykins> ducasse must have some fondness left for breakage ;D
<BluesKaj> anyway gotta run ome errands...BBL
<ducasse> because on that particular machine i always want the absolutely latest version of a number of packages as soon as possible, and i don't want the constant hassle of building packages myself. plus i think arch is in many ways nice to deal with - i can handle the breakage :)
<akik> BluesKaj: i haven't noticed that the icons i add to plasma panel would hang up system settings
<akik> BluesKaj: but i don't use any separate widget, just add programs to the panel
<BluesKaj> akik, I think the bug lies in the quicklaumch wdget, not the panel icon launcher
<BluesKaj> quicklaunch even
<akik> i don't require any special features from it so it's fine for me
<BluesKaj> and only it's shortcut to system settings
<BluesKaj> well. I can use favs, it's almost as handy
<acheronuk> BluesKaj: this is the issue and fix: https://cgit.kde.org/systemsettings.git/commit/?h=Plasma/5.11&id=1490607667954f9d5bf2b9ec6d466b89b9b582c4
<acheronuk> + it only affects 5.11.2 without that patch
<BluesKaj> acheronuk, I haven't use git vey often so I'm not familiar with how the patch should be applied
<BluesKaj> err = I haven't used git very often
<BluesKaj> well, jam time ..... laterz all
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<Bashing-om> Getting ready - do this again :)
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-10-28
<sirru5h> Hello Everyone
<Bashing-om> sirru5h: \o
<sirru5h> How are ya doing Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> sirru5h: Well, sometimes I wonder - other times .... I just do not know :)
<sirru5h> I got a crazy question have you seen firefox crashing with kernel 4.13.17?
<sirru5h> haha yeah sometimes I wonder myself how I'm doing
<Bashing-om> sirru5h: Nope . I do not run FF .
<sirru5h> ahh I went back to 4.10.37 and FF is fine
<Bashing-om> sirru5h: Might talk to mozilla - see what they know .
<sirru5h> doesn't it work like 4.13 would be unstable I remember reading that odd numbered kernels are unstable
<sirru5h> I may have to do that, talk with mozilla
<sirru5h> I'm just beat right now so I will do it later on btw what browser do you use?
<sirru5h> well thanks for the advice
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> WB lotuspsychje \o .
<lotuspsychje> tnx Bashing-om 9 days holiday here
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Well .. Good for you .. has it been that long that you vacationed - Belgium ??- ?
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: last work holidays always working..
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: one of the reasons i changed work :p
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: this work now, 'every' vacation at home :p
<Bashing-om> 9 days -- give ya time to winterize the house :)
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: yeah and build up lotus computers room :p
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Oh Yes ... Keep the priorities !
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/canonical-to-focus-mostly-on-stability-and-reliability-for-ubuntu-18-04-lts-518246.shtml
<Bashing-om> Good nite all
<lotuspsychje> nite mate
<lotuspsychje> tomorrow same hour
<Bashing-om> Take care lotuspsychje. See ya on the flip :)
<ducasse> good morning
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse morning mate
<ducasse> hi lotus
<ducasse> all well?
<lotuspsychje> yeah 9 days off :p
<ducasse> cool :) plans? going away?
<lotuspsychje> autumn holidays
<lotuspsychje> mostly work a bit in house, but yeah we go away few days also
<ducasse> sounds good :) weekend again, guessing it will be quiet here today...
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: you got any plans today?
<ducasse> no, not really. got some maintenance to do, like upgrade a system to artful etc
<Ben64> hm, the unity factoid should be changed
<Ben64> !unity
<ubot5> Unity is the default UI since Ubuntu 11.04.  Unity is a shell for GNOME. see http://unity.ubuntu.com. For a GNOME 2-like experience, see !notunity
<dax> !-unity
<ubot5> unity has no aliases - added by Pici on 2010-10-28 13:43:01 - last edited by Pici on 2011-10-13 14:12:15
<dax> suggestions?
<dax> (it's late, i should probably not try wording rn)
<Ben64> yeah not sure how to do it
<Ben64> should 11.04 even be listed in that
<Ben64> been eol for ages
<dax> i think i could go either way on that
<Ben64> Unity is the default UI for Ubuntu versions 11.04 through 17.10?
<Ben64> kinda bulky
<Ben64> err.. 17.04
<Ben64> also think its funny how a bunch of people are mad about the switch from unity
<dax> URL doesn't work either
<Ben64> mad about unity being default, mad about it going away
<dax> *nod*
<dax> hopefully different people on each side of that, although wouldn't surprise me if some people just like being mad
<Ben64> well anything ubuntu does is bad too
<Ben64> next time i'm stuck in an airport i'll start going through factoids and wiki and editing stuff
<lotuspsychje> well like xangua said, unity still long supported
<dax> How about: Unity is a graphical shell for the GNOME desktop environment. Ubuntu used it by default from 11.04 to 17.04. For more information, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity
<lotuspsychje> also ubports still use unity aswell?
<Ben64> sounds better dax
<dax> i'll throw that up then
<Ben64> thought unity was going away though
<Ben64> !info unity
<ubot5> unity (source: unity): Interface designed for efficiency of space and interaction.. In component main, is optional. Version 7.4.0+16.04.20160906-0ubuntu1 (xenial), package size 1598 kB, installed size 6892 kB
<Ben64> xenial?
<dax> impressive
<Ben64> !info unity artful
<ubot5> unity (source: unity): Interface designed for efficiency of space and interaction.. In component universe, is optional. Version 7.5.0+17.10.20171010-0ubuntu1 (artful), package size 1753 kB, installed size 6742 kB
<dax> we *really* need a release checklist
<dax> (we = ops)
<dax> anyway yeah, it got moved to universe but is still gonna be around
<Ben64> what's a release checklist
<Ben64> oh i figured it out
<dax> stuff we should be doing with bots and topics and stuff every six months
<Ben64> i didn't get a lot of sleep today :D
<dax> no worries, that's been my week
<dax> (the relevant person has been poked about ubot5 thinking it's 2016)
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-10-29
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<lotuspsychje> quick jump-in from artful
<lotuspsychje> heya BluesKaj
<lotuspsychje> new bug on my xorg artful
<lotuspsychje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/1728390
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1728390 in xorg (Ubuntu) "Graphical glitches overall system on the xorg session 17.10" [Undecided,New]
<BluesKaj> hey lotuspsychje
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, wayland?
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: wayland goes well, but i have another bug on there so both sessions no good
<lotuspsychje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1718653
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1718653 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "Windows buttons gone on specific programs" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<lotuspsychje> this is the wayland bug
<BluesKaj> in kubuntu there are no virtual desktops with wayland
<lotuspsychje> oh
<BluesKaj> amongst other missing features
<BluesKaj> after trying way alnd for an hr or so it becomes very clear how much still needs to be done to replace X11
<lotuspsychje> indeed
<BluesKaj> err awayland
<BluesKaj> awayland is a good handle for it atm :-0
<lotuspsychje> haha
<lotuspsychje> !info kphotoalbum
<ubot5> kphotoalbum (source: kphotoalbum): tool for indexing, searching and viewing images by keywords for KDE. In component universe, is optional. Version 4.7-1 (xenial), package size 9517 kB, installed size 16680 kB
<lotuspsychje> bbl
<ducasse> BluesKaj: is he on mint?
<BluesKaj> ducasse, , no i just invoked the bot to copy it's info to paste in ##linux
<akik> BluesKaj: what kind of problems did you encounter in wayland?
<BluesKaj> akik, on kubuntu there were no virtual desktops avaialble , no widgets like quicklaunch for example ...running a nvidia gpu so i was using the default nouveau driver which actually works quite well  otherwise.
<akik> using kde myself too
<BluesKaj> some major apps like system settings would freeze
<akik> do you mean that the virtual desktop widget just doesn't work?
<BluesKaj> yup
<akik> pager?
<BluesKaj> widgets won't launch
<BluesKaj> yes the pagerisn't available
<BluesKaj> system tray is available and so is the kmenu and the calendar, but otherwise no other widgets
<akik> and everything works in the xorg session?
<BluesKaj> yup
<BluesKaj> sticking with X11 for now...wayland needs a lot of work for nvidia equipped pcs...amd gpus seem to fare a bit better
