#ubuntu-manual 2010-06-28
<flan> daker, pong.
<daker> did you saw the mockup ? http://imagebin.org/index.php?mode=image&id=102416
<flan> I did. But, as I mentioned, I think we're envisioning rather different scopes.
<flan> I'll be taking some of your layout and formatting ideas, of course, but this isn't intended to be a public resource.
<daker> oki
<flan> It's just a part of the backend system for Quickshot. Most installations will only really have one or two projects.
<daker> oki
<flan> Your mockup will probably be really useful as a starting point for the quickshot.ubuntu-manual.org page, though.
<flan> Since that'll feature a whole bunch of unrelated projects in a single place.
<flan> Once we start work on allowing other groups to advertise through the bulletin-board-like system
<flan> I like how you were using space in the mockup, though. I'll definitely try to reflect that when I start tweaking things again.
<flan> Thanks. :)
<daker> you are welcome
<zkriesse> hey guys got a question
<zkriesse> how do i make my own branch that i could push stuff up to for my own project?
<brandonj> for you personally or for a project?
<brandonj> either way you go to the "Code" page on Launchpad for either you, or your project and pick 'register new branch' I think
<zkriesse> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-beginners-wiki-sod
<zkriesse> it's my project
<brandonj> yeah so go to "Code" at the top
<zkriesse> I have two pdf's but instead of changing then deleting and re-uploading the new version i'd like to be able to just push it
<zkriesse> register a branch?
<brandonj> i think so
<brandonj> I've never actually done it myself though
<zkriesse> sweet
<brandonj> afk for a couple hours
<zkriesse> ok now just gotta figure out how to add the file
<zkriesse> later
<daker> zkriesse, just create a folder
<zkriesse> daker: where
<zkriesse> daker: in my projects folder?
<daker> yes
<daker> if you want
<daker> then $ cd /to/this/folder
<daker> then do
<daker> $ bzr init
<zkriesse> ok done
<zkriesse> i did that now what
<daker> add your files in this folder
<zkriesse> oh ok
<daker> then $ bzr commit -m "type here what you have done"
<zkriesse> ok
<zkriesse> it said no changes to commit
<daker> oupps
<daker> $ bzr add
<zkriesse> I've got two .tex files for two different pdf's
<zkriesse> should i make two separate folders in the main folder or?
<daker> it dependent on you
<zkriesse> well how do i push the files up there
<zkriesse> i did the bzr add
<zkriesse> do i do bzr commit?
<daker> $ bzr commit -m "type here what you have done"
<daker> yes
<zkriesse> and then bzr push
<zkriesse> right?
<daker> $ bzr push --use-existing-dir lp:your branch here
<zkriesse> I was just going to ask what to type
<zkriesse> lol it gave me an error
<daker> paste here
<zkriesse> think i got it
<zkriesse> one sec
<daker> it works
<daker> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-beginners-wiki/ubuntu-beginners-wiki-sod/main
<daker> your branch is being updated
<zkriesse> ok
<zkriesse> it didn't update my pdf though
<zkriesse> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-beginners-wiki-sod
<daker> no
<zkriesse> i'm trying to update the Filing Wiki Bugs
<daker> it will not update your pdfs
<daker> you should do it your self
<zkriesse> oh
<zkriesse> well that's what i wanted to do
<zkriesse> is there a way i can do that?
<daker> you want just by updating the tex files in your branch then the pdfs will be update ?
<zkriesse> I was hoping to
<zkriesse> Guess not?
<daker> i think so
<zkriesse> cause it's not
<daker> launchpad can't do that
<zkriesse> ok
<zkriesse> well i was hoping to do it like the ubuntu manual
<zkriesse> do i have to merge the two pdf's into one first?
<daker> really i don't know much more, you should ask godbyk or godbyk-android, he is Mr TEX :)
<zkriesse> godbyk-android: HELP!
<zkriesse> godbyk-android: HELP!
<zkriesse> brandonj: ping
<zkriesse> brandonj: wait never mind sorry
<zkriesse> daker: ok i think i got it...just it wont let me commit the change
<zkriesse> daker: i try and it goes
<zkriesse> zach@zach-desktop:~/Projects/main$ bzr commit
<zkriesse> Committing to: /home/zach/Projects/main/
<zkriesse> aborting commit write group: PointlessCommit(No changes to commit)
<zkriesse> bzr: ERROR: No changes to commit. Use --unchanged to commit anyhow.
<daker> it says that you did't make any changes on your files
<zkriesse> well i did
<daker> what you did ?
<zkriesse> i edited like three or four lines
<daker> you are sure ?
<zkriesse> yes
<daker> ok
<zkriesse> I know when I'm editing something
<daker> bzr add
<daker> then  $ bzr commit --unchanged -m "type your changes here"
<daker> then
<daker> $ bzr push lp:your branch here
<daker> without the --use-existing-dir
<daker> http://www.downloadsquad.com/2010/06/18/first-made-for-torrent-drama-series-pioneer-one/
<daker> night all
<zkriesse> godbyk-android: u there?
<brandonj> whats your issue, zkriesse
<zkriesse> brandonj: it's the branch thing...the thing you couldn't help with
<brandonj> what thing
<zkriesse> commiting/pushing my edit(s) of my own .tex file to a branch on lp for my project to update the pdf file
<brandonj> what didn't work
<brandonj> or what doesn't work, I should say
<zkriesse> It wouldn't update the pdf
<zkriesse> it would push but not update
<brandonj> it probably can't read changes in the pdf because it isn't plain text
<brandonj> if you want to distribute a pdf that way you probably have to get everybody else to build it from the .tex
<zkriesse> oh
<zkriesse> Well i'm not going to worry about it...at least not for now..i'll just edit it when it needs editing, change it to a pdf and upload it to lp
<brandonj> ok
<zkriesse> thanks though
<brandonj> no problem
<godbyk-sagan> Okay. Have checked into the hotel and have eaten dinner. Let's see what I've missed.
<zkriesse> godbyk-sagan: I need some help!
<godbyk-sagan> Hey, zkriesse. What's up?
<zkriesse> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-beginners-wiki-sod
<zkriesse> On there I've got a pdf
<zkriesse> I want to be able to push edits up to it like we do for the ubuntu manual
<zkriesse> How do i set that up?
<godbyk-sagan> zkriesse: Well, the way we do it, is I manually run a shell script I wrote that generates the PDFs and uploads them to my webserver.
<godbyk-sagan> So it's not the best process by any metric.
<zkriesse> oh so i cant do it then?
<godbyk-sagan> Does Launchpad's build server let you build PDFs from LaTeX?
<zkriesse> where is that
<godbyk-sagan> I have no idea.
<zkriesse> hm
<godbyk-sagan> ubuntujenkins may know. He's the one who's created PPAs for us in the past.
<zkriesse> ok
<zkriesse> I'll ask him when he comes on
<zkriesse> thanks
<godbyk-sagan> Or poke around the Launchpad help or Google for 'launchpad build (server OR service)" or something like that.
<godbyk-sagan> If their build server doesn't support LaTeX, you might see if Launchpad's API supports uploads.  That is, can one write a script that uploads the latest PDF you build to Launchpad and set it as the current download (and deprecate the previous downloads).
<godbyk-sagan> Most of what we do in the Ubuntu Manual Project is hacked together. :-)
<zkriesse> ah
<zkriesse> ok
<godbyk-sagan> brb
<godbyk-sagan> Back.
<godbyk-android> godbyk-sagan: beep
<godbyk-android> godbyk-sagan: beep again
<godbyk-sagan> That's better.  xchat now beeps (as opposed to playing horrid white noise).
<godbyk-sagan> I had to tell xchat to use paplay to play the sounds.  Its auto-detection scheme must be faulty of something.
<nisshh> godbyk-sagan: urgh, i dislike xchat, i prefer irssi, the commandline irc client
<godbyk-sagan> nisshh: yeah, I haven't used irssi much yet.
<nisshh> godbyk-sagan: you should try it again, its really quick and easy to use, and you can easily log channels and query people
<nisshh> godbyk-sagan: setup autojoins and themes and everything
<godbyk-sagan> themes? isn't it a terminal-based app? what kinds of themes are there?
<nisshh> godbyk-sagan: here: http://www.irssi.org/themes
<nisshh> there are hundreds
<godbyk-sagan> are they just different color schemes? or is there more to a theme than color?
<nisshh> godbyk-sagan: mostly color since its the terminal not a gui app, but also various things like right aligned nicks and different nick colors
<nisshh> you can also load your own scripts written in pearl
<nisshh> things that provide extra functionality and stuff
<godbyk-sagan> gotcha.
<nisshh> yea
<godbyk-sagan> yeah, you can load scripts with xchat, too.
<nisshh> also, some themes use different formatting when it comes to some of the commands and displaying things
<nisshh> oh, you can, ok
<godbyk-sagan> how's irssi compare to smuxi?
<nisshh> godbyk-sagan: the other benefit of irssi is that you can use it with screen
<nisshh> godbyk-sagan: never heard of smuxi
<godbyk-sagan> Per the pkg description in Synaptic: Smuxi is an irssi-inspired, flexible, user-friendly and cross-platform IRC client for sophisticated users, targeting the GNOME desktop.
<godbyk-sagan> Looks almost like a GUI wrapped around irssi.
<nisshh> godbyk-sagan: just looked at the features list for it and it looks like irssi with twitter support
<nisshh> so unless you want to use twitter and irc at the same time, there is not much difference
<nisshh> godbyk-sagan: looks, alot like a gui wrapped around irssi actually
<nisshh> godbyk-sagan: do you prefer a gui or the command-line
<godbyk-sagan> nisshh: Most of what I do is on the command-line.
<godbyk-sagan> nisshh: But if i'm using GUI-like stuff, why not use a real GUI?
<godbyk-sagan> (e.g., tabs, windows, etc.)
<nisshh> godbyk-sagan: yea, but dont you find the terminal way more efficient?
<nisshh> godbyk-sagan: plus, now that iv used the terminal for so long i find most gui's pretty clunky
<godbyk-sagan> I do use the command line for nearly everything.
<godbyk-sagan> I guess it all depends on how well irsii works.
<nisshh> like i fond that i could go and change 100 settings in the preferences for an app, or i could just start it with some commandline parameters instead
<nisshh> godbyk-sagan: well, how many channels do you normally sit in?
<godbyk-sagan> It depends on what project(s) I'm active in at the time.
<nisshh> right, on average?
<godbyk-sagan> It can be anywhere from 4-10 channels.
<nisshh> ok
<godbyk-sagan> (I try to keep it to the lower end of that range.)
<nisshh> does xchat have keyboard shortcuts to switch channels?
<nisshh> godbyk-sagan: also, you can do heaps of things with irssi, like log different messages and outputs to other terminals, log files, or windows
<godbyk-sagan> I'm not sure if I can jump directly to a particular channel or not.  I usually use Ctrl+PgUp and Ctrl+PgDn to switch between them (or use the mouse.)
<nisshh> godbyk-sagan: right
<nisshh> in irssi, you can use alt + number to switch channels
<nisshh> like in firefox
<nisshh> plus, irssi has support for being able to sit in more than 20 channels at once
<godbyk-sagan> looks like xchat supports the Alt+[number] to jump to a specific tab, too.
<nisshh> ah ok
<godbyk-sagan> I'd never tried it before.
<godbyk-sagan> I'll give irssi a shot.  We'll see how it goes.
<godbyk-sagan> I may have to pester you for help occasionally.
<godbyk-sagan> (Due to my laziness.)
<godbyk-sagan> For now, I think I'm going to head to bed.
<godbyk-sagan> I have to get up early tomorrow for this conference.
<nisshh> ok, gnight then :)
 * nisshh doesnt mind being pestered
<godbyk-sagan> Cool.
<godbyk-sagan> G'night!
<zkriesse> hi thorwil
<thorwil> good morning! :)
<zkriesse> well it's 1:30 am for me
<zkriesse> brandonj: ping
<zkriesse> hey guys, I fixed bug https://code.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/599084 and i committed/pushed it up to lp. when i open up the pdf of the manual though it doesn't have the updated field
<zkriesse> am i doing something wrong?
<zkriesse> ok...if ya guys figure it out let me know via memoserv
<zkriesse> I need to go to bed
 * zkriesse out
<thorwil> http://leonardof.org/2010/06/28/using-mallard-for-general-purpose-documentation/
<humphreybc> we need to decide on something soon
<thorwil> humphreybc: while i intend to stay out of that decisions, i wonder if it couldn't be tackled on a by-tags basis
<thorwil> if you know what tags (and this structure) you need, you can compare with the existing standards
<thorwil> even going with something custom that has overlap with docbook and co, but is not identical, could be an option
<ubuntujenkins> morning
<thorwil> hi shrini, ubuntujenkins
<ubuntujenkins> hey thorwil
<humphreybc> thorwil: yes, well I'm staying out of the decision as well
<humphreybc> I don't know enough about documentation formats to be useful
<humphreybc> I just want us to choose something soon and get work underway :)(
<ubuntujenkins> same
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: you use pidgin for irc right?
<humphreybc> indeed
<ubuntujenkins> I have started using it and have a few questions
<humphreybc> fire away
<ubuntujenkins> can you make the buddy list a chat tab?
<ubuntujenkins> how do you tell if people are away on irc?
<humphreybc> I don't think so
<humphreybc> I don't think you can
 * humphreybc having never used anything else except Pidgin, doesn't miss those features
<ubuntujenkins> if I close all of the chat tabs, i have them set for me to stay in the irc channel. how do i open all of them again?
<ubuntujenkins> I have 9 at least. I don't want to click each one to open them again
<humphreybc> also, not sure
<humphreybc> I'm only in one or two channels max at any one time :P
<humphreybc> have you looked in the plugins?
<ubuntujenkins> yea i use a few of them already to get the functionality of xchat. I would like everything working out of the me menu you see
<ubuntujenkins> I will see if i can find any more
<humphreybc> ah
<humphreybc> yes
<ubuntujenkins> really the irc away one is the most important missing feature.
<humphreybc> yes
<humphreybc> that would be handy
<thorwil> ubuntujenkins: i doubt all the hassle of not using xchat (or perhaps irssi if you want a client running on a server) is worth it
<humphreybc> yes
<humphreybc> and it's way prettier
<ubuntujenkins> thorwil: we will have to see, I only have one thing left to find the away thing. I don't have a sever to run irc on :(
<humphreybc> especially if you use the new elementary icon theme for it
<ubuntujenkins> it is shiney, already use that theme
<humphreybc> daker: The site is nearing completion :)
<humphreybc> http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/ump-index.png
<humphreybc> just working on the pictograms for the nav bar and other places around the site with the design team
<daker> great!!!
<humphreybc> I also have a Quickshot site almost finished for you to start work on in the meantime, if you want
<humphreybc> It's only three pages
<daker> oki
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: what does it look like?
<humphreybc> you haven't seen it yet, have you?
<daker> me no :)
<ubuntujenkins> i might have done
<humphreybc> give me a sec
<humphreybc> http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/quickshot-pngs.zip
<humphreybc> It needs a bit of fine tuning re: colours and icons
<daker> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual-website/ubuntu-manual-website/0.3
<daker> nice humphreybc
<humphreybc> daker: thanks. I'll touch some things up, make any changes that the Quickshot guys want and then flick you over the PSD.
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: we need to set up an e-mail in which people can contact is or point that link to the launchpad answer system. only members of the quickshot team can mail that list
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: the colours are gowing on ome
<ubuntujenkins> 8me
<ubuntujenkins> *me
<humphreybc> What I'm going to do is actually use some contact forms, instead of email addresses
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: gray, orange and aqua?
<ubuntujenkins> yea, was not a fan of it at first
<humphreybc> It's a beautiful colour scheme :)
<humphreybc> I actually wanted to make the Quickshot site darker, but it didn't really work
<humphreybc> I'd like to get lots of animations in there
<humphreybc> basically, when you change page, the left hand side of the content area will fade in and out, but everything else including the nav bar, image on the right (that *could* fade too) and the footer will stay constant.
<ubuntujenkins> can we get the contact form to mail to several people?
<humphreybc> Same for the UMP website. daker will have to use some javascript magic
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: yep, easy
<ubuntujenkins> I guessed it would be
<daker> ubuntujenkins, yes we can
<ubuntujenkins> I might see if i can make my e-mail auto forward the contact form ones to the mailing list
<ubuntujenkins> should be easy to do
<c7p> daker, there are some parts of the website that need translation and there are no strings for them on lp. Could you do something for it ?
<daker> c7p, everything we be fine in the 0.3 version
<daker> will*
<c7p> daker, ok thx
<daker> i have just stared working on
<c7p> ok
<c7p> I think it will take some time
<daker> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-website/0.3
<c7p> Could you add only one string the "We're sorry, but the language you have selected ..." paragraph to lp ?
<daker> i'll fix those strings
<c7p> ok thx :)
<ubuntujenkins> the quickshot ui is getting there hopefully some more screenshots soon
<daker> humphreybc, http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/lucidtimeline.jpg nice :)
<humphreybc> heh
<humphreybc> Are you browsing through files?
<humphreybc> http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/ump-index.png
<humphreybc> daker: what do you think?
<daker> humphreybc, yes :)
<daker> nice
<humphreybc> daker: did you see the quickshot site?
<daker> yes
<humphreybc> Do you want me to send you the PSD for that so you can start?
<daker> one question, where is the QS logo ?
<humphreybc> they're getting a new one
<humphreybc> if thorwil or vish get around to designing one
<humphreybc> I might have a play later on
<ubuntujenkins> the current one is in lp:quickshot in the media file
<humphreybc> but I'll put that in once we get one
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: yeah, the current one sucks
<ubuntujenkins> It could do with changing but we cna use that as a place hoder for now
<humphreybc> I'll make a better one
<ubuntujenkins> I keep trying to think of ideas but nothing good yet
<humphreybc> yeah
<humphreybc> so ubuntujenkins, feedback on the Quickshot site please
<humphreybc> you're the Quickshot team leader
<ubuntujenkins> I would say flan and i are joint leaders but thats not relevent
<ubuntujenkins> we need a few more pages, how to use quickshot for your project
<ubuntujenkins> help page
<humphreybc> hm
<humphreybc> okay
<ubuntujenkins> The words Home Install Get Involved anc Contact should be spelt with a captital at the start
<humphreybc> awwh
<humphreybc> don't pull the capital card
<humphreybc> they're lowercase for a reason :)
<ubuntujenkins> :P filing bugs what we want from a bug report page
<ubuntujenkins> why?
<humphreybc> because it looks cool
<humphreybc> the project is badass and badass projects have their menus in lowercase
<ubuntujenkins> right
<ubuntujenkins> otherwise thats all i can think off
<ubuntujenkins> at the moment anyway
<ubuntujenkins> still a bit unsure on the colours
<daker> youtube with the vuvuzela button
<daker> \o/
<daker> http://mashable.com/2010/06/24/youtube-vuvuzela-button/
<daker> humphreybc, we were discussing last time about a forum
<daker> <daker> guys!!! do you think we should install a forum for the project ? forum.ubuntu-manual.org ?
<daker> <c7p> yes for sure
<daker> <daker> or the ML is enough ?
<daker> * dutchie dislikes fora
<daker> <c7p> well it helps very much, you don't have to search through the whole mess of messages to find some useful info, everything is categorized
<daker> <dutchie> some people like them
<daker> <dutchie> not for me
<daker> <daker> c7p, +1
<daker> <c7p> on the forum we can have different sections for translators, editors, developers future plans etc ;)
<daker> <daker> subsections too
<ubuntujenkins> I suggested the additon of a docs section to the current ubuntu forums
<humphreybc> hmm
<humphreybc> I could ask for a sub forum on ubuntuforums.org
<ubuntujenkins> I did also point out that we don't have much mailing list traffic at the moment
<humphreybc> I don't think we need our own forum
<humphreybc> we don't really even need our own planet
<ubuntujenkins> I like the idea but agree that it is probably not needed yet
<daker> oki
<daker> humphreybc, oki send me the psd
<humphreybc> daker: okay
<ubuntujenkins> flan: I am doing a choose a project page for quickshot what boxes do you think i can add? Its currently very boring http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/91516/quickshot_015_TxvC7Z.png
<ubuntujenkins> apart form an import file button
<daker> it would be great if you an do the project listing like GC do it
<flan> GC?
<daker> a treeview i think instead of a listview
<daker> Ground Control
<ubuntujenkins> I will install gc and look at how it does it
<flan> Yeah, that could be helpful.
<flan> Remember that we need multiple entry points, though. (Just in case this screen isn't currently intended to be shown after the user clicks some sort of "What projects need my help?" button)
<ubuntujenkins> this screen will also come up in a prefences menu of some form
<flan> What would it be doing there?
<ubuntujenkins> I thought you said you wanted it there .  I don't recal why
<ubuntujenkins> what do you mean by "multiple entry points"? it will appear  after a what project needs help button
<humphreybc> vish: ping
<flan> The user has to be able to launch a session by choosing a recently opened project (~/.quickshot/recent_projects), a local .qsproj file, a URL, or the bulletin board service.
<flan> I don't recall anything about a preferences menu being related to project-selection, unless we were to use it to apply filters.
<daker> ubuntujenkins, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/44939107/bug_GC1.6.png
<ubuntujenkins> well each project will be allowed to specify the user account name so recent projects will only work if projects choose the same user name
<ubuntujenkins> we could add a remove user fearute
<flan> This is based on the notion of requiring all users to create an account with the name 'quickshot', right?
<flan> Is that really necessary?
<flan> It may be for UMP, but I can't see every project needing that.
<ubuntujenkins> daker: yea that could use that it might take up to much screen space as people may be seeing on small resolutions
<flan> A separate user should be strongly recommended, since the commands to be run are supplied by an external party, but most projects won't likely need to care if the user account is consistently named or not.
<ubuntujenkins> flan: i think the default user name would be quickshot but it should be an option for the user name to be sepcified some where.
<daker> ubuntujenkins, you can add icons ?
<ubuntujenkins> flan: I suppose some projects will not need to switch users
<flan> I'd imagine that most projects wouldn't. My argument is for including that feature in the UMP-specific patches we'll be maintaining.
<ubuntujenkins> daker: may be, I am think about another idea that has come into my mind
<ubuntujenkins> I woudl rather we did one release and had a way of sepecifiying in the qsproject file what happens for each file
<ubuntujenkins> f*each project
<flan> I've never seen that work well in a long-lived project.
<flan> Managing one release that meets everyone's needs, I mean.
<ubuntujenkins> well surely all it needs is a "make user account" option in the qsproject file. and possibly "a switch to new user" option. how ever you are more experienced
<flan> We could set a version-level flag that checks to make sure the user has a specific username/display name, but we'll need to be really careful to avoid including anything that might change the direction of development or unnecessarily bloat the core codebase.
<flan> If the name doesn't match and there's no local UID that qualifies, then prompt the user to create the new account.
<flan> I'll add 'user_name' and 'real_name' fields to the server's database schema at lunch.
<flan> They'll default to null and need to be set individually, at the project version level.
<flan> Null in either case means "I don't care about this attribute".
<ubuntujenkins> "If the name doesn't match and there's no local UID that qualifies, then prompt the user to create the new account." is what we do already. If the manual guys get around to this persona stuff i think we will probably have to do some patches to include that in a custom build
<ubuntujenkins> kk
<vish> humphreybc: pong
<flan> If they do persona stuff, they could just use this and create a series of parallel versions.
<flan> 10-04-marcia and 10-04-john, which work alongside the generic 10-04 for screenshots that don't need to reflect personas.
<humphreybc> vish: Change nautilus into tree view using Control + 2, and then try to create a folder
<ubuntujenkins> the persona stuff also includes mp3 files and odt and other random files
<vish> humphreybc: you mean list view?
<vish> humphreybc: yeah , you cant
<vish> humphreybc: there is a longstanding bug for that :)
<daker> hhhh
<vish> humphreybc: Bug 51043
<vish> huh , not bot :/
<vish> no*
<vish> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/51043
 * ubuntujenkins nudges dutchie that manualbot is not here
<daker> he is on holidays :p
<vish> MootBot is really moot! ;p
<humphreybc> vish: is it nominated as a papercut?
<vish> humphreybc: if you see the bug , it is marked as a "confirmed" papercut , but fixing it is not really simple.. it needs fixing in gtk and what not
<humphreybc> okay
<daker> it should gives you more space at bottom
<daker> i can create a folder :)
<vish> the way it is done in OSX is the best though ;)
<daker> vish, are you using OSX to design stuff ?
<vish> area other than the text+icon  is treated as background allowing us to create the new folder or use context menu for the particular folder
<vish> daker: lol no! , i read that it was how it works in OSX   :D
 * vish planning on installing OSx86 on an alternate partition
<daker> so you are using inkscape :)
<vish> yup
<daker> nice
<humphreybc> http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/planet-ump.png
<daker> nice
<nisshh> humphreybc: that is a kick-ass planet design!
<humphreybc> :)
<humphreybc> one sec
<humphreybc> refresh it
<humphreybc> so now the pictograms up the top are in the same order as the menu on the main site
<humphreybc> http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/ump-index.png
<humphreybc> so on the planet, they'll *mainly* be there for eye candy - but if you want, you can click on one of them and it will take you to the respective page on the main site
<humphreybc> because they're not very discoverable, there's the navigation menu with five main links to the right of that
<nisshh> cool
 * nisshh checks his blogs stats on wordpress
<daker> nisshh, vish why you are not doing web design ?
<nisshh> daker: on the new website?
<daker> in general
<nisshh> because, one, i suck at creating mockups, humphreybc makes my design skills look shit
<humphreybc> lol
<daker> \o/
<humphreybc> design is really easy, there are only three things you have to learn
<humphreybc> 1) Grids
<humphreybc> 2) Effective use of white space
<nisshh> oh, here we go....
<humphreybc> and 3) How to have a nazi like attention to detail
<nisshh> hehe, thanks for the tips
<nisshh> i do actually have a good attention to detail
<nisshh> but my GIMP/inkscape skills have never been up to par
<nisshh> HOLY CRAP!!!
<nisshh> over the weekend i had almost 1400 hits on my blog :)
<nisshh> thats more than iv had in over 4 months
<nisshh> daker: plus, i mainly focus on my python coding skills and such
<nisshh> daker, humphreybc: if you want me to help out with the website, i will, its just it seemed to be going ok, so i took a break to work on some of my projects
<humphreybc> refresh the planet one
<humphreybc> it looks better now
<humphreybc> nisshh: nah that's no problem
<humphreybc> I'm having fun designing stuff :)
<nisshh> humphreybc: ok, sure thing
<humphreybc> so daker, we're gonna get some animation going on our site
<humphreybc> for example, if someone was going from the planet (http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/planet-ump.png) to the main page (http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/ump-index.png) and they clicked on the link on the planet called "Website" on the top right
<humphreybc> the orange icons would slide along to fill up the whole bar, as the blue links on the planet disappear, and the content fades in
<humphreybc> you can imagine the transition if you just switch between those two mockups in a browser :)
<humphreybc> of course, it's not hugely important that the site has animations - but it would be nice :D
<nisshh> humphreybc: your acting like a macboy, we dont need SHINYNESS!
<nisshh> :)\
<humphreybc> yes we do :)
<nisshh> no, we dont...
 * nisshh shakes fist at humphreybc 
<vish> humphreybc: looks like thorwil wasnt here to listen to some of your designing wisdom :p
<humphreybc> hah
<humphreybc> too bad
<humphreybc> I can tell him later :)
<nisshh> vish: i think i need it more than thorwil anyway :)
<humphreybc> so vish, we need some more Ubuntu pictograms
<humphreybc> for a couple of our links
<humphreybc> "About Us" and "Contributors"
<humphreybc> the ones I have on the site currently are just placeholders
<humphreybc> I'll send you some stuff
<vish> cool!
<humphreybc> okay, email sent
<daker> sent to me ?
<humphreybc> nope, to vish lol
<daker> \o/
<humphreybc> I can send you the planet one
<humphreybc> let me tidy it up a bit
<daker> oki
<humphreybc> vish: Just asked Dom, he's gone home now though
<vish> humphreybc: no hurry here ;)
<humphreybc> daker: sent :)
<daker> oki i'll start woking on
<humphreybc> yay!
<daker> where are the planet's files ?
<daker> i can't find them on the branch :s
<daker> that's ok i found them
<zkriesse> hey guys, I fixed bug https://code.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/599084 and i committed/pushed it up to lp. when i open up the pdf of the manual though it doesn't have the updated field
<zkriesse> am i doing something wrong?
<daker> zkriesse, have you compiled the pdf ?
<zkriesse> you mean make?
<zkriesse> make clean; make ? yes i did that
<daker_> zkriesse, ?
<daker_> zkriesse, have you compiled the pdf ?
<zkriesse> daker: ok what command is that
<daker> should ask ubuntujenkins :)
<zkriesse> ubuntujenkins: hey got a question. again
<daker> ubuntujenkins, show zkriesse how to compile the manual pdf
<daker> brb
<ubuntujenkins> zkriesse: sure what langauga do you want to do it for?
<ubuntujenkins> and which edittion
<zkriesse> e2 en us
<ubuntujenkins> have you got latex installed?
<zkriesse> but when downloading it from the lp page it doesn't show the fix
<zkriesse> ubuntujenkins: I do indeed...i pushed two fixes up last night but after i downloaded the pdf from lp it didn't list the change
<ubuntujenkins> as in the pdf on here https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual
<zkriesse> yes
<ubuntujenkins> that does not get updated untill release
<zkriesse> oh
<zkriesse> stupid me
<ubuntujenkins> you need to run "make" in the folder to see your changes
<ubuntujenkins> no worries
<ubuntujenkins> you will need to install latex
<zkriesse> ah i have latex installed
<ubuntujenkins> you should run make before pushing to avoid latex errors
<zkriesse> i do
<ubuntujenkins> ok cool which branch are you doing them on?
<zkriesse> make clean; make
<zkriesse> lucid e2
<ubuntujenkins> cool, my bad I was in the wrong folder
<zkriesse> heh
<zkriesse> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/599084
<zkriesse> that was my last fix
<zkriesse> now to compile and see the manual in pdf form
<zkriesse> forgot that comm
<ubuntujenkins> yea so the only way to see the latest version is to view it your self
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk / godbyk-android ping
<zkriesse> isn't it make ubuntu-manual-en_US.pdf ?
<ubuntujenkins> no just make
<ubuntujenkins> en_US is default
<zkriesse> ok and where does it compile it to?
<zkriesse> or is the change in the tex file
<ubuntujenkins> the folder you are in
<ubuntujenkins> you can do make show
<zkriesse> ah thanks
<ubuntujenkins> np, be back in 20mins
 * dutchie is going on holiday tomorrow!
<ubuntujenkins> yey \o.
<ubuntujenkins> have fun
<ubuntujenkins> can you put manual bot back please
<dutchie> oh yeah
<dutchie> dunno where it went
<dutchie> it's only Abergavenny anyway :
<dutchie> )
<ubuntujenkins> I like brecon
<dutchie> week of debauchery to celebrate exams finishing: )
<dutchie> oh dear oh dear :(
<dutchie> hmm
 * daker doesn't finished yet
<daker> vish, inkscape is good to slice psd file ?
<ubuntujenkins> daker: I find they open in gimp iirc
<vish> daker: yeah , you can use gimp
<daker> photoshop is very easy than gimp
<daker> dutchie, ping
<daker> GOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLL
<daker> GOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
<daker> GOAL GOAAAALLLLLLLL
<ubuntujenkins> who are you watching?
<daker> and 2-0 for BRA
<c7p> who created the quickshot live-cd ?
 * ubuntujenkins i might have done it depends why you ask :P
<ubuntujenkins> c7p: why do you ask?
<c7p> because I have installed the distro to a friends of mine pc ... and many packages are missing
<c7p> what i want to learn is which packages should I install on system so it can have sound
<c7p> what*
<ubuntujenkins> yea I removed loads, there sould be a  note where you downloaded it saying don't use it as an  install cd. I THINK installing ubuntu-desktop *should* fix it
<ubuntujenkins> I removed some very serious bits tbh i would get a cd from ubuntu.com
<ubuntujenkins> we only kept the stuff we had to to make it function
<c7p> yes I can understand it's for the job of project not for home using
<c7p> ah by the way
<c7p> whouldn't be nice to create a Ubuntu Manuals Contributor DVD with all the latex packages, quichshot, etc. ?
<ubuntujenkins> hmm its possible relitvley easy but there is a bug with the packages that we are trying to fix
<ubuntujenkins> nothing major as far as checking translated versions etc but it does mean that I can't build final versions
<c7p> by packages you mean official packages downloaded with the script or the packages on repo ?
<ubuntujenkins> I mean the latex ppa i made
<c7p> yap that i was meaning by repo :)
<ubuntujenkins> o i see.
<ubuntujenkins> kevin is looking into it and so am i
<daker> GOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLL
<daker> GOAL GOAAAALLLLLLLL
<daker> 3 - 0 for BRA
<c7p> g night
<ubuntujenkins> night c7p
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk / godbyk-android ping
<godbyk-android> ubuntujenkins:  pong
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk-android: what can i do to help the german manual progress?
<godbyk-android> I don't recall where we left off on the German one.
<godbyk-android> Did he get all of the extra translated stuff in there?
<godbyk-android> (like the copyright page, colophon, etc.?)
<ubuntujenkins> not a clue the last e-mail said he had now added the .tex file and that hypernation was alrigt I am just looking for the e-mail with the translations in
<godbyk-android> The translation asks be in the repository.
<godbyk-android> asks -> should
<godbyk-android> ( stupid phone auto complete)
<ubuntujenkins> we have some words translated in an e-mail sent on 18/6/2010 or 6/18/2010 which ever side of the water you are
<ubuntujenkins> I can't build the final version as i have this crazy bug
<godbyk-android> I think we need the following words translated for the psfbookmark commands:
<godbyk-android> Colophon
<godbyk-android> Title page
<godbyk-android> (maybe some others)
<ubuntujenkins> ok i will check for those as they are not japanese. has the extra text for the copyright page been done?
<godbyk-android> I don't recall seeing it
<ubuntujenkins> where is the english version of it?
<godbyk-android> In the lucid-2w repository, I think.
<godbyk-android> formatter/copyright.tex
<ubuntujenkins> lucid-2w means lucid-2e ?
<godbyk-android> er, yeah
<godbyk-android> Sorry
<godbyk-android> Fat fingers + tiny onscreen keyboard
<ubuntujenkins> what is the extra text say aproximatly? I don't want to paste it all here
<godbyk-android> It has a version for print and a version for screen
<godbyk-android> The screen version links to the lulu page for a hardcopy
<godbyk-android> The print version links to the ubuntu manual website
<godbyk-android> If they had more AC outlets in this room it's make my life easier.
<godbyk-android> (the career on my laptop doesn't last very long anymore.)
<ubuntujenkins> is it all of that file or jsut one paragraph?
<godbyk-android> The whole file.
<ubuntujenkins> o right thats ok i don't see the word screen in it and neither does cntrl+f
 * dutchie wonders what daker wanted
<ubuntujenkins> dutchie: is manualbot dead then?
<ubuntujenkins> right i will ak for the extra words and that file to be translated
<dutchie> manualbot doesn't want to connect
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk-android: I don't see the funny letters when i do german
<dutchie> though it does seem to be running
<ubuntujenkins> o i lied there is 3 of them
<godbyk-android> Okay check our the lucid-e1-en repository instead.
<ubuntujenkins> dutchie: hmm kill it and restart?
<ubuntujenkins> dutchie: what is index in german?
<dutchie> miles ahead of you :)
<dutchie> ubuntujenkins: no idea
<dutchie> WARNING 2010-06-28T20:58:13 Error connecting to irc.freenode.net:6667: timeout: timed out
<ubuntujenkins> try using 8001 as the port?
<ubuntujenkins> index in english is the same as german aparently
<dutchie> doubt that will help to be honest
<dutchie> no, it hasn't
<godbyk-android> ubuntujenkins:  shouldn't be
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk-android: thats what google translate says
<dutchie> i do have german dictionaries upstairs
<godbyk-android> Oh, you  mean the word "index" not the index itself.
<ubuntujenkins> yea
<dutchie> ask #ubuntu-de?
<godbyk-android> Or thorwil.
<dutchie> he's not around though
<ubuntujenkins> he is not here
<dutchie> godbyk-android: how is the train trip going?
<ubuntujenkins> we appear not to have translated Creative Commons Notice
 * dutchie will be stuck in the back of beyond (aka Wales) from tomorrow evening until Thursday
<dutchie> there is not even a landline
<godbyk-android> Train trip  is over. During in the conference now.
<godbyk-android> Someone's talking about using tex in his studies of chinese
<dutchie> everybody's going away now
<dutchie> heh
<godbyk-android> We're all gonna have a lot of work to so when we all get back next week. :-)
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk-android: I don't think any of the Define translated macros are translated in the um-greman.clo file
<ubuntujenkins> at least in comparison with the greek one
<godbyk-android> Which macros should be translated?
<ubuntujenkins> I also have no german 8.tex file
<ubuntujenkins> I am going to get a new branch to be sure
<godbyk-android> ubuntu-manual-de.tex
<ubuntujenkins> yea thats what i ment
<ubuntujenkins> I have it now, I will send an e-mail in the morning,
<godbyk-android> 'kay.
<ubuntujenkins> strange this time there were no funny letters but in the greek one there still are funny letters
<ubuntujenkins> right night all
<brandonj> successful GRE is successful
#ubuntu-manual 2010-06-29
<thorwil> morning!
<ubuntujenkins> morning
<thorwil> morning ubuntujenkins
<ubuntujenkins> hey thorwil
<thorwil> i wonder why communication regarding the german version with Daniel Schury works so badly
<nisshh> thorwil: has anyone noticed that he has asked about it like 3 times now?
<thorwil> nisshh: sure. he's aware of that, himself
<ubuntujenkins> thorwil: kevin and i worked out some more stuff that needs doing last night I am going to send a reply today
<thorwil> ubuntujenkins: good. be sure to send to both list and his address
<ubuntujenkins> will do
<ubuntujenkins> thorwil: is the word index the same in german and english?
<thorwil> ubuntujenkins: yes, but depending on context, a synonym can be preferable
<ubuntujenkins> in the manual it is index for the title of the index. What would better?
<thorwil> ubuntujenkins: for the index of terms: Stichwortverzeichnis
<ubuntujenkins> wow could there be a longer word? I will change it to that
<thorwil> literally keyword-directory
<thorwil> yeah, german has a tendency for long and complicated terms
<ubuntujenkins> thanks
<ubuntujenkins> e-mail sent
<thorwil> ubuntujenkins: title page = Titelblatt (cover or front page would be Titelseite
<thorwil> colophon = Kolophon
<thorwil> Creative Commons notice = Creative Commons Hinweis
<ubuntujenkins> thanks thorwil
<ubuntujenkins> ubuntu devloper week next month
<ubuntujenkins> thorwil: which is a better translation ? Creative Commons notice = Creative Commons Hinweis or Creative Commons notice = Creative Commons Notice which has just been sent on the list
<thorwil> ubuntujenkins: Hinweis. while Creative Commons as a name shouldn't be translated, it's silly to not translate "notice"
<ubuntujenkins> thats what i thought it looks like a few corners are getting cut
<ubuntujenkins> i will make sure your version is used
<thorwil> ubuntujenkins: for Colophon, both "Kolophon" and "Schlussschrift" are correct. they are both not exactly widely known terms :)  i like the look and sound of "Kolophon" better
 * thorwil -> coffee
<ubuntujenkins> ok thanks :)
<godbyk-android> The next presentation is titled "On-Demand  Creation of Documents Online"
<godbyk-android> Might be a bit relevant.
<ubuntujenkins> hey godbyk-android later today/tonight when you have a moment tonight cna you talk me though what I need to do to help the german editon on its way. I need to do some phone calls and bits and bobs now
<godbyk-android> Sure thing.
<godbyk-android> Also all of these talks are being recorded, so they should be online in a week or two.
<thorwil> godbyk-android: does that session handle creation of driver licenses and international passports? :)
<godbyk-android> Heh, we'll find out when  it starts
<godbyk-android> That might be streaming live
<godbyk-android> Try river-valley.tv
<thorwil> nah, gotta try to do a little work done :)
<thorwil> get, even
<godbyk-android> U don't see a live stream anyway. Sorry.
<godbyk-android> Aha. These are the pedigree folks.. They use latex to create medical pedigrees.
<Z-RAY_> after amateur tries to update MLT to 0.5.6 i have left without ffmpeg modules and even ffpmeg is installed, kdenlive says that some not installed at all. also it says that some sound module is not installed. i spent all day to make "lines and dots" bug dissappear (white lines and dots - was promised to be fixed in MLT 0.5.5) and i couldn't make it, even worse - now modules "avformat module", "Quimage module", "Title module" are missing and reinstallin
<Z-RAY_> g of the program and ffmpeg does not helping.
<Z-RAY_> help me please to make this thing work correctly. my skype is "woanerges", or write me here. please, bro's, come on, i need some support here!
<Z-RAY_> white dots and lines examples:
<Z-RAY_> http://kdenlive.org/sites/default/files/shot1_0.png
<Z-RAY_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrFXr_bx2a0
<godbyk-android> Hello, Z-RAY_. I'm afraid we can't provide support in this channel. You might try asking in #ubuntu.
<vish> godbyk-android: hmm , he just spammed a lot of channels and might have been set on mode -q   :s
<vish> well , maybe not here ;p
<godbyk-android> vish: Ah. Fun.
<Z-RAY_> sorry guys
<Z-RAY_> just everything is so silent
<Z-RAY_> kde forums - silence, ubuntuforums - silence, kdenlive forums - silence
<vish> Z-RAY_: try asking in #ubuntu or maybe posting in the forums will help?
<vish> oh!
<vish> Z-RAY_: tried #kubuntu?
<Z-RAY_> yes
<vish> hrm , well , its times like these when it seems like ubuntu sucks :/
<vish> Z-RAY_: hehe , if all else fails re-install , not a word we like to see though;p
<godbyk-android> Z-RAY_:  If you think it's a bug, you might file a report through launchpad.
<Z-RAY_> :(
<Z-RAY_> i spent all day to make my video clip
<Z-RAY_> worked so hard
<Z-RAY_> and now i can't render my project
<godbyk-android> That sucks.
<vish> Z-RAY_: you really cant expect an answer within one day of posting your questions/problems on forums ;)  ..
<Z-RAY_> yeah
<vish> sometimes you get replies , sometimes it takes time
<godbyk-android> That's true, it does take time to investigate the problem and find a solution.
<Z-RAY_> i've posted a bug about LCD backlight problem
<Z-RAY_> more than week ago
<Z-RAY_> or two weeks
<Z-RAY_> i'm updating it everyday
<Z-RAY_> but still no answer
<Z-RAY_> thats how they "working on ubuntu to make it better"
<Z-RAY_> i can't control intensivity of my LCD backlight on my laptop and this is a serious problem, but on ubuntu no one cares of that (looks like)
<Z-RAY_> who knows - maybe i'm not right
<zkriesse> Z-RAY_: once again, we don't provide support in this channel. please join #ubuntu
<zkriesse> and have patience
<godbyk-android> It think they care, but some problems are not as easy too did as one might assumes
<godbyk-android> assume, rather.
<Z-RAY_> i do have patience, my friend
<Z-RAY_> (=
<Z-RAY_> sorry, if i made you angry, zkriesse
<zkriesse> ya didn't make me angry
<zkriesse> just trying to help you not get in trouble
<godbyk-android> It is also difficult typo did a bug when you (as the programmer) don't experience it yourself.
<zkriesse> godbyk-android: agreed
<godbyk-android> typo -> to fix
<vish> Z-RAY_: also , your problem is too specific for many to have faced or even know about..
<vish> (white lines and dots problem)
<Z-RAY_> ok..
<Z-RAY_> lines and dots problem :D
<Z-RAY_> lines and dots problem is very similar to round stars and bicubic bubbles problem
<ubuntujenkins> Z-RAY_: as you have been quitened on #ubuntu can i suggest you rejoin and ask your question in one line and one use of the send button. Then hopefully the floodbot will not "quiten" you
<ubuntujenkins> :)
<Z-RAY_> i'm not hacker
<Z-RAY_> i don't understand what you mean
<vish> ubuntujenkins: why you confusing the poor chap .. ;p
<ubuntujenkins> well you posted your question in six separate posts. the bot then thinks you are a hacker or a filling the channel with to much and makes it so that your posts are not seen. You need to use a different name as far as i know to avoid the bots. You then need to ask something like " I have tried to update MLT to 0.5.6 however......does any one know anything about this? I have examples if anyone wants to see them
<ubuntujenkins> vish: I am trying to help :P I do tend to sonfuse people more though
<vish> ubuntujenkins: i was j/k ;p
<ubuntujenkins> I know :P
<thorwil> ubuntujenkins: sonfuse? now i'm confused ;)
<vish> daughterfused!
<Z-RAY_> jenkins
<Z-RAY_> thanks
<Z-RAY_> you are right
<Z-RAY_> that's how it must work
<Z-RAY_> thanx so much for tips
<ubuntujenkins>  no problem have fun and good luck finding a fix
<Z-RAY_> yeah
<Z-RAY_> good luck finding a chicks
<Z-RAY_> chix
<vish> argh!
<ubuntujenkins> what vish?
<vish> ubuntujenkins: well , his response didnt seem friendly though we have been patient with him!
<Z-RAY_> :(
<Z-RAY_> now what?
<Z-RAY_> you will make me feel pain?
<Z-RAY_> thank you my friends for trying to help!!
<Z-RAY_> now it's good?
<vish> Z-RAY_: you may not be a native english speaker , but saying things like  " <Z-RAY_> good luck finding a chicks"
<vish> is not polite ;)
<Z-RAY_> why?
<Z-RAY_> dorry - i didn't knew you are gay
<Z-RAY_> it's ok
<Z-RAY_> don't worry
<Z-RAY_> i understand you
<vish> lol!
<zkriesse> Z-RAY_: One, completely off topic, and two, we're or they are trying to help you.
<vish> Z-RAY_: you are one adorable chap aernt you ;)
<zkriesse> The saying, "Don't bite the hand that feeds you" applies here as well
<Z-RAY_> don't feed the hand, that spanks yooou
<vish> Z-RAY_: i think we have had enough of you .. you may leave
<Z-RAY_> how can you think for all those people? are you god?
<vish> jussi: around?
<Z-RAY_> nope
<Z-RAY_> only you
<jussi> vish: no :P
<jussi> oh, we have the pleasure of Z-RAY_'s company.
<Z-RAY_> now you will call your friends to say collectively that some one human is bad?
<Z-RAY_> like you are sinless
<Z-RAY_> we all are 50% good and 50% bad
<ubuntujenkins> thank you jussi
 * pleia2 hugs jussi 
<jussi> Z-RAY_: please remember to follow the guidelines
<ubuntujenkins> we all do i need to sort out getting ops here
<vish> yay jussi
<ubuntujenkins> I had the command ready to go just needed op for a bot :(
 * ubuntujenkins e-mails humphreybc
<jussi> I can get it sorted
<jussi> but Id rather humphreybc did it
<ubuntujenkins> ok cool if he does not know how to do it i will ping you if thats ok
<ubuntujenkins> with him here to tell you its ok
<jussi> ubuntujenkins: yeah, just get him to name some people
<ubuntujenkins> jussi we have ops but none are here atm :(
<jussi> ubuntujenkins: then you need more :) (I saw the access list)
<vish> ubuntujenkins: did we forget to ping godbyk ..
<ubuntujenkins> no i pm'd him
<vish> ah, yeah you mentioned :)
<ubuntujenkins> c7p: ping
<c7p> ubuntujenkins: hey
<ubuntujenkins> hey c7p i jsut wanted to ask how the greek edition was going?
<c7p> well it's almost finished
<c7p> i can't do anything else by myself, so we are waiting kevin for the final arrangements
<brandonj> anybody else get a spam email via the mailing list?
<ubuntujenkins> what are we missing now then?
<ubuntujenkins> brandonj: such as?
<ubuntujenkins> not me as far as i can tell
<ubuntujenkins> wow i am lagging tonight
<zkriesse> brandonj: the pretty store thing?
<zkriesse> brandonj: yeah i got it
<brandonj> yeah, thats the one
<ubuntujenkins> I had 5 e-mails today, one yesterday and five the day before
<brandonj> this one just came in a few minutes ago
<ubuntujenkins> let me just refresh evolution
<zkriesse> ubuntujenkins: EVOLUTION?!?!?!!??!?! WTF?!?!?! use thunderbird
<brandonj> gmail...
<zkriesse> lol
<c7p> ubuntujenkins: the issues that should deal with are 1) warnings (kevin will ensure that everything is ok) 2)glossary entries reference number (topo fixed it but I don't know if Kevin approved his method)
<ubuntujenkins> I have not used thunderbird in a while does it give nice bubbles when you get messages?
<zkriesse> well...
<zkriesse> thunderbird is more business than play
<ubuntujenkins> c7p: I spoke to kevin about warnings I wonder if i can find the logs or if we pm'd for some reason
<c7p> "pm'd" ?
<ubuntujenkins> private message. I think we were talking about something else and then got onto the warnings
<ubuntujenkins> zkriesse: is there a thunderbird ppa?
<zkriesse> ubuntujenkins: 10.04 'buntu?
<zkriesse> if so it's in the software center
<c7p> ubuntujenkins: oh yes, but what?
<ubuntujenkins> as for the spam it hit google mails spam filter i know who that is so i will chat with them i guess their password has been hacked
<ubuntujenkins> or they gave a website to much info
<ubuntujenkins> zkriesse: for a more uptodat one
<ubuntujenkins> c7p: i am just waiting for my itnernet to catch up
<zkriesse> ubuntujenkins: ah that should be the most recent available
<c7p> ubuntujenkins: don't worry I'll find the logs
<ubuntujenkins> c7p: check out http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/elerrors
<ubuntujenkins> kevin has commented on them all
<ubuntujenkins> c7p: do we know how topo fixed the the glossary stuff?
<c7p> nice thx
<c7p> yes he altered manually some files
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk-android: ping
<ubuntujenkins> do we know which ones?
<c7p> let me check his mail
<ubuntujenkins> that way i can check with kevin when i next talk to him
<c7p> he changed some .glo and gls files
<c7p> i am requesting this files and when I receive them I'll send them to you
<ubuntujenkins> thanks c7p I will see what we can do
<c7p> btw I think topo finished the job :P
<ubuntujenkins> hehe
<ubuntujenkins> yea i just want to look to see what he has done thats all.
<ubuntujenkins> my only concern is that stuff is auto generated iirc and i don't know how it is effected when building
<c7p> yes offcourse this is the way things should go
<c7p> have you fixed the Japanese index bug on your system ?
<ubuntujenkins> no not yet and a really don't want to have to download the old way. I have a download limit at home
<c7p> :/ that sux
<c7p> italic numerals are i, ii, iii, iv ... etc ?
<ubuntujenkins> brandonj: was that the only spam you were asking about or are there others?
<brandonj> ubuntujenkins: no, that was the only one I've gotten
<ubuntujenkins> c7p: erm i thought italic was text at a slant
<brandonj> roman numerals are i, ii, iii, etc
<ubuntujenkins> brandonj: cool, hopefully that will be the first and last of it
<c7p> ok
<ubuntujenkins> yea thats it roman numerals. brain balnk for amoment
<c7p> so we have to locate italic numerals on official Ubuntu Manual (english) and then see if everything looks fine on the Greek one, right ?
<ubuntujenkins> c7p: i don't know what an italic numeral is appaerntly they are real. and not a number that is slanted
<ubuntujenkins> c7p: look at error 2 that might be what we need to do to fix the glossary
<ubuntujenkins> I am googling italic numerals
<godbyk-android> Italic numeral us just a slanted numeral.
<ubuntujenkins> hey godbyk-android
<godbyk-android> Edited the glossary files is general nit the best  route as they get regenerated all the time.
<ubuntujenkins> well that does make sense then
<ubuntujenkins> wow our latest team member is Ubuntu Yemen LoCo Team
<zkriesse> ubuntujenkins: cool
<zkriesse> hmm
<ubuntujenkins> thats what i figured kevin
<c7p> ubuntujenkins: all the references have already been checked and the bugs have been submitted :)
<ubuntujenkins> ok so we have very little left to do. italic numerals and re run xelatex a few times
<c7p> oh yes :D
<c7p> which is the whole command (:D) ?
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk-android: I can't do it as i still have my bug, cam you run those commands when you have time
<zkriesse> hello rickspencer3
<c7p> hey topo :P
<Guest57355> hey c7p
<Guest57355> i just answered to your email
<c7p> yap i checked
<c7p> it
<Guest57355> keep a backup if your going to try yourself :P
<c7p> sure :D
<c7p> ubuntujenkins: how do you select your url on http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/ ? e.g (http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/translationtodo)
<ubuntujenkins> c7p: just type what you want it to be and then if it is free it will give you a create pad page
<c7p> ok thx
<c7p> ubuntujenkins: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/YknjBKBNG8
<ubuntujenkins> wow thats simple :P
<ubuntujenkins> I will have ago in the morning
<c7p> ubuntujenkins: could you submit for me the ubnntu-manual-el.tex file to the lucid-e1 branch ?
<ubuntujenkins> i will mail it you I have the one from kevin
<c7p> I have many conflicts and i can't deal with it, bazzar doesn't approve experiments on lucid-e1 folder :P
<c7p> i have corrected some translations and removed the extra page (actually topo did)
<ubuntujenkins> sent
<c7p> okey thx
<c7p> from what i see the page is removed from kevin's tex file
<c7p> the files only differ on the colophon where I corrected the translations
<ubuntujenkins> coll, just e-mail kevin and i the new one
<ubuntujenkins> *cool
<c7p> okey
<c7p> i have to go to sleep :) it's 2:00 here ... g' night all
<c7p> cu tomorrow :)
<ubuntujenkins> nigh c7p
#ubuntu-manual 2010-06-30
<ubuntujenkins> wow pidgin tells you when the day changes
<zkriesse> ubuntujenkins: I hate pid
<zkriesse> "pidgin
<ubuntujenkins> i thought i would try it as I would like eveything working with the me menu and in one program. I am going to try thunderbird once i work out how to get the mail from evolution into it
<brandonj> I think it only does that if you have the irssi behvior plugin enabled
<ubuntujenkins> zkriesse: I have 4 accounts where is the option to make each one have its mail in its own inbox and not in the global one?
<ubuntujenkins> in thundebird
<zkriesse> ubuntujenkins: ok you want to set them up or you already did
<ubuntujenkins> I have not set them all up yet. I only did one. iirc there is a setting somewhere in thunderbird so that each has its own inbox
<zkriesse> ubuntujenkins: Edit -> Account Settings -> Account Actions -> Add Mail Account
<ubuntujenkins> right i get that bit
<zkriesse> ok
<ubuntujenkins> zkriesse: http://www.askdavetaylor.com/how_do_i_create_multiple_accounts_in_mozilla_thunderbird.html first screen shot has the setting i am looking for alot has changed since then though
<zkriesse> ok
<zkriesse> so what are you having an issue with?
<zkriesse> or are you looking for Edit -> Account Settings -> Account Actions -> Add Other Account
<ubuntujenkins> I would like non global inbox's I just wondered if you knew where the option for it was
<ubuntujenkins> no worries it appears to do it automatically now to some extent I will see how i get on
<ubuntujenkins> thanks zkriesse
<ubuntujenkins> night all
<humphreybc> jussi: ping
<godbyk-android> Ah, man. I had ops and didn't notice 'til I lost 'em!
<humphreybc> yeah
<humphreybc> I'm trying to figure out the command to keep you on the op list
<humphreybc> apparently there was a miscreant in here yesterday
<godbyk-android> Ah, gotcha.
<humphreybc> i'll just wait till dutchie is around to tell me the comment :)
<humphreybc> the chanserv documentation is a bit shit
<godbyk-android> There you go.
<humphreybc> what an unbelievably odd conversation.
<humphreybc> vish is gay now? haha
<humphreybc> godbyk, which nicks of yours do you need as OP?
<humphreybc> godbyk, you're already an OP
<godbyk-android> Probably my godbyk nick. It's the only one registered with nickserv
<humphreybc> okay
<humphreybc> already done
<humphreybc> Luke is one now too
<humphreybc> and now flan
 * humphreybc tries to think of a suitable pictogram for about us
<zkriesse> ops? who has ops?
 * zkriesse loves the ops
<humphreybc> i just sent an email to the ML with the op list
<zkriesse> cool
<zkriesse> what was the incident?
<humphreybc> check the logs from yesterday
<humphreybc> or see my latest tweet :)
<zkriesse> what's your tweet
<humphreybc> http://twitter.com/humphreybc
<zkriesse> humphreybc: oh you mean that zray dude?
<zkriesse> yeah that was wierd
<zkriesse> humphreybc: oh you're ben?
<zkriesse> i'm zach kriesse
<zkriesse> i sent you that email the other day
<humphreybc> FUCK I HATE INKSCAPE
<godby-sagan> humphreybc: What's wrong with inkscape now?
<humphreybc> everything
<godby-sagan> (Conference is over for the day.)
<humphreybc> absolutely everything is wrong with it
<humphreybc> and where are the translated editions!?
<godby-sagan> lol
<godby-sagan> they're still being worked on.
<godby-sagan> I have to test some stuff with the Greek edition.  I think the German edition is waiting on some translations, still.
<godby-sagan> And I haven't been in contact with anyone about any other translations recently (that I recall).
<humphreybc> =\
<godby-sagan> I know.  First it was a new job, and now I'm off at a conference.
<humphreybc> that's okay
<godby-sagan> But I think both translations should be ready in the next 2-3 weeks.
<godby-sagan> (I'll be back in the middle of next week, so as long as too much work hasn't piled up, I should be able to make some progress on the manual.)
<humphreybc> okay, cool
<godby-sagan> We also need to check in on progress for the second edition.
<humphreybc> yea
<godby-sagan> What're our goals for the second edition? How are we progressing toward those goals?
<zkriesse> you mean lucid e2?
<godby-sagan> zkriesse: Yeah.
<godby-sagan> Bug-fixing is a bit sporadic, but continuing.
<godby-sagan> (well bug-reporting + bug-fixing)
<zkriesse> godby-sagan: Ah yeah
<godby-sagan> (Bugs usually get fixed fairly quickly after they've been reported.)
<humphreybc> yes
<brandonj> godbyk-android: http://news.slashdot.org/story/10/06/29/2233219/Knuth-Plans-Earthshaking-Announcement-Wednesday
<flan> nisshh, your Hotmail account was hacked or something.
<nisshh> flan: yea i know, its amazing that someone managed to crack my 64 character password
<nisshh> im sorry about all the spam on the mailing list, please ignore that, since it was not me who sent it, but whoever the cracker was
<godbyk-android> brandonj:  thanks! A friend just IMed me the link, too.
<godbyk-android> I'll be sure to report the announcement, though it's not likely to be anything nearly so exiting as they proposed.
<godbyk-android> (And probably TeX-related.)
<godbyk-sagan> Whoops. Kernel panicked on my laptop. Had to reboot.
<ubuntujenkins> yey worked it out
<ubuntujenkins> morning all bth
<ubuntujenkins> *btw
<thorwil> good morning ubuntujenkins and congrats for your new amazing powers! :)
<ubuntujenkins> lol thanks we needed it last night, that person go offensive
<thorwil> yeah, i skimmed the log
<ubuntujenkins> I did feel mean every channel he went to he was kicked/mode -q on. i tried to explain how to ask a question in one line but failed
<thorwil> ubuntujenkins: some people can't be helped. don't worry about it
<ubuntujenkins> yea life goes on
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: what was this offensive person doing in the channel yesterday, can i see the logs?
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: also, sorry about the damn spam on the ML, someone did crack my account
<ubuntujenkins> yea the logs are on irc.ubuntu.com it was basically alot of posting and when we told him we could not help he didn't stop
<ubuntujenkins> no worries glad you fixed it
<ubuntujenkins> and then he started to get strange every channel he was in mode -q him or kicked him
<nisshh> lol, what a douch
<nisshh> you get people like that sometimes
<ubuntujenkins> we all tried to help but faild. as thorwi l said some people can't be helped
<nisshh> yea
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: just read the logs, what a frigging retard :)
<nisshh> flan: iv switched to gmail now, so i shouldnt get hacked again
<ubuntujenkins> nisshh: any reason to change your nick to help?
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: sorry, i messed up a command
<nisshh> trying to register my new email address
<ubuntujenkins> lol no worries just asking :)
<nisshh> hehe
<ubuntujenkins> wondered if you wanted and help
<nisshh> hahaha
<flan> I'm kinda surprised you were allowed to claim that name. =P
<nisshh> flan: yea, i thought it was reserved or whatever
<ubuntujenkins> did you have create a whole new accout
<nisshh> no
<ubuntujenkins> hey flan
<nisshh> i just told nickserv my new email
<nisshh> then they send you a verification email and off you go
<nisshh> easy as
<ubuntujenkins> I ment e-mail account
<nisshh> oh, silly me, yes i created a whole new gmail account, my old ones were all munted and had crappy usernames
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: ^^^
<ubuntujenkins> I only registerd my nick 46 weeks ago I am sure is started ubuntu way before that
<ubuntujenkins> gmail is good nisshh
<nisshh> yea
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: back when i got my first hotmail address, gmail was still crap and featureless
<nisshh> but now its much better
<ubuntujenkins> evolution in maverick has collapsing threads. I still have a hotmail its my junk account
<nisshh> hehe
<nisshh> gimme a sec im trying out the away command
<nisshh> ok done
<ubuntujenkins> you have to love fishing e-mails this one does not even have a convincing website address for what should be hsbc. :)
<nisshh> meh, i hate them but some are very funny
<nisshh> i got a lot of british lottery ones on my hotmail account
<ubuntujenkins> wow thats hardd to enter whilst in australia
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: no, it was fake and saying that id won it :)
<ubuntujenkins> I guessed it was fake :) hehe
<thorwil> mine are usually italian lottery
<nisshh> hehe
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: how do you add google reader to your gmail account?
<ubuntujenkins> hehe italian lottery
<ubuntujenkins> nisshh: no clue sorry
<flan> I can't help, either.
<ubuntujenkins> I don't use google reader
<nisshh> omg, i thought everyone used GR
<nisshh> i think humphreybc does
<flan> I just dock Firefox's live bookmarks into the empty space beside its main menu.
<nisshh> oh...
<ubuntujenkins> nisshh: i guess go to here http://www.google.com/reader and sign in
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: thanks, iv figured it out
<zkriesse> hello fellow manual editors
<nisshh> yo
<zkriesse> hey sup nisshh
<nisshh> not much
<nisshh> just reconfiguring and setting up my new gmail account and some stuff on my desktop
<zkriesse> sweet
 * zkriesse is on forums
<nisshh> cool
<ubuntujenkins> evening all
<ubuntujenkins> I have just taken most of the code out of the bin/quickshot file it annoyed me
<c7p> ubuntujenkins: ping
<ubuntujenkins> c7p: pong
<c7p> i sent you the tex file
<ubuntujenkins> so you did :)
<ubuntujenkins> so we think this is it?
<c7p> you mean the final tex file ?
<ubuntujenkins> yep
<ubuntujenkins> we just need kevin to do the final build and upload it right?
<ubuntujenkins> I have no access to the server anyhow
<c7p> well a team member found some bugs but he hasn't sent me until now the changes
<c7p> so i guess it's the final
<c7p> i don't think this would be the final build since kevin wants to ensure that everything is ok
<c7p> also the script that generates the pdf and upload them on the site must have bug
<c7p> cause it messes up the index page references
<ubuntujenkins> c7p: kevin would do this one himself not the script. we will have to ping him and let him know
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk-android: / godbyk-sagan ping
<ubuntujenkins> flan: ping
<c7p> g2g
<ubuntujenkins> see ya c7p
<c7p> cya
<ubuntujenkins> flan: i have started naming things properly so the first window is called welcome so i have self.welcome = get("welcome") then importing the button following the way it was done last release it would read self.welcome.welcome_forward_btn = get("welcome_forward_btn") . is it ok to go with self.welcome_forward_btn = get("welcome_forward_btn"). there is a differnece?
<flan> btn_ should be a prefix, not a suffix.
<flan> The reason being primarily for legibility's sake.
<flan> First for skimming and second for exploration with dir() or other reflection-like facilities.
<ubuntujenkins> doh!
 * ubuntujenkins changes them all
<flan> Sorry. :(
<flan> I'm not sure I fully understand your question, though.
<ubuntujenkins> np i should do it right
<ubuntujenkins> basically the old way it would look like self.welcome.welcome_forward_btn = get("welcome_forward_btn")
<flan> Also, though it probably doesn't matter too much as long as we're consistent, prefixing things with underscores in the Python convention for marking stuff as "private".
<ubuntujenkins> the new way for the button is  self.welcome_forward_btn = get("welcome_forward_btn")
<ubuntujenkins> will i be ok if i change _ to -
<ubuntujenkins> i remmber being told that now
<flan> self._btn_whatever is preferable to self.btn_whatever, as long as it doesn't make things inconsistent.
<ubuntujenkins> whats the point of the "private" thing again?
<flan> If this button is being attached to a class named 'welcome', does repeating 'welcome' in its name help or hinder clarity for any other developers?
<ubuntujenkins> no i did not think so
<flan> Private, in Python, is a signal to others that they shouldn't mess with the attribute unless they know what they're doing.
<flan> In other languages, like Java, it's strictly enforced, preventing casual access to things that shouldn't be visible to the outside world.
<ubuntujenkins> o ok cool, i will do that on the important bits
<flan> In the part of Quickshot you're working on, it doesn't really matter if you use 'private' hints or not.
<ubuntujenkins> as you can tell i am still learning
<ubuntujenkins> thats what i fugured stuff like password handling etc should proabbly have it
<flan> In mine, it does, since I wouldn't want you to access things like the server's hostname directly, because for all you know, my code may change that every three seconds.
<flan> Privacy doesn't actually protect data in any languages.
<ubuntujenkins> if i tried to look at your code it would take a while to understand, your comments are good though. just my knolegde is not as good as yours
<flan> My code in the first release is pretty hackish.
<flan> (Deadlines)
<ubuntujenkins> I need to find a place to put my big screen, glade is not good on 1280x800
<flan> I'd recommend that you keep doing what you're doing now and just ask when you get stuck.
<ubuntujenkins> thanks will do
<flan> You'll find better ways to do things as you write more code.
<flan> And then you'll want to go back and improve the earlier stuff.
<flan> You're not going to do everything right the first time. Nobody ever does.
<flan> (Even if they know the language and have a solid plan to work against)
<flan> Just look at all of my "restructuring" and "thought of a better way to do this" commit messages.
<ubuntujenkins> I am glad we have a bit more time real life has taken over a bit for me
<flan> Same. Preparing to move has totally shot my productivity.
<flan> And I had finally regained my motivation, too. :(
<flan> Oh, well.
<ubuntujenkins> we will get there
<flan> I'm sure I'll be, like, suffering fromw ithdrawl when I'm settled in.
<flan> Though I managed to introduce Debian and Python at work, so...
<ubuntujenkins> night all
<zkriesse> bye ubuntujenkins
<zkriesse> ubuntujenkins: hey did you get thunderbird up and running ok?
<ubuntujenkins> i decided that it did not tie in with the desktop enough for me but upgrade to the latest evolution which now deals with threads like gmal
<ubuntujenkins> *gmail
<ubuntujenkins> thanks for your help zkriesse
<zkriesse> yep
<daker> hello
<ubuntujenkins> flan: how do i work out how long a nick as been not used for?
<ubuntujenkins> no worries worked it out
 * daker just finished the new design of the planet
<ubuntujenkins> o lets see pics please
 * ubuntujenkins is going to change nicks to jenkins
<ubuntujenkins> i am disliking the ubuntu part
<ubuntujenkins> hmm someone is using it atm so they can't drop it. the registered user has not used it in ages
<daker> jenkins, you will lose the OP
<jenkins> daker: i will keep the old one or get the name changed
<jenkins> i think i should be able to change it otherwise humphrybc will be able to
<jenkins> nick is registered be right back
<jenkins> yey it works
<daker> http://imagebin.org/103579
<jenkins> much nicer :)
<daker> godbyk, ping!!
<godbyk-android> Hey, daker
<daker> hi
<daker> i want to change the planet design
<daker> are you available ?
<godbyk-android> How goes it?
<daker> http://imagebin.org/103579
<godbyk-android> Okay, cool
<godbyk-android> Well, I'm at a conference right now, but we're on a break for a couple minutes.
<jenkins> hey godbyk-android
<daker> what should i do ?
<godbyk-android> Hey, jenkins.
<jenkins> hmm it apears humphreybc needs to change the nick that has ops
<godbyk-android> daker:  it's still loading on my phone. Slow Internet here.
<godbyk-android> jenkins:  why'd you change your nick?
<godbyk-android> Sa
<jenkins> erm the other one was long and the ubuntu bit can cause people on other channels to go "o so you use ubuntu you should use ...." no one else uses ubuntu infornt of it i was childish when i set it up
<godbyk-android> daker:  looks pretty nice. We should get more blogs on the planet sometime.
<godbyk-android> jenkins: I see.
<jenkins> jussi: are you able to change the name which i am op'd under? or do i need humphreybc? I decided to change my nick from ubuntujenkins to jenkins.  probably not the right time to choose :(
<jenkins> the only thing is i need to transfer people talking to jenkins not ubuntujenkins. I am thinking an auto responder on my old nick
<daker> godbyk-android, , so what ? i'll wait for you ?
#ubuntu-manual 2010-07-01
 * jenkins does not blog
<godbyk-android> They're just starting a new panel.
<godbyk-android> So I won't be paying attention to irc for a bit.
<daker> oki
<daker> jenkins, your twitter ?
<jenkins> a little bit not much of a facebooker or twitter i update it now and then
<daker> your twitter is ?
<zkriesse> @zachkriesse is my twitter since we're sharing those
<jenkins> daker: i am sure your on it hmm let me rember
<jenkins> i had 3 lots of pidgin open
<jenkins> daker: https://twitter.com/Luke_Jennings is me
<daker> zkriesse, your tweets are private so i can't add you to the planet
<zkriesse> daker: request me
<jenkins> same mine are private
<jenkins> daker you can add http://twitter.com/quickshotteam
<daker> zkriesse, i can't i am using the twitter api
<daker> jenkins, done
<jenkins> cool
<daker> also for me i can't add my self to the planet :D
<jenkins> who is Per Erik GlÃ¦rum GrÃ¸nvik on the planet. I don't know their irc name
<daker> i don't know him :)
 * daker watching NixiePixel videos
<daker> http://www.quora.com/Is-Google-Me-a-fake-rumor-Misleading-evolutionary-product-update-Or-is-it-really-a-new-social-network-from-Google
<daker> godbyk-android2, https://code.launchpad.net/~adnane002/+junk/ump-planet-theme
<godbyk-sagan> daker: cool
<daker> are you free ?
<godbyk-sagan> for a moment.
<daker> can you implement the new design ?
<godbyk-sagan> can you link to it again (now that I'm on my laptop)?
<daker> https://code.launchpad.net/~adnane002/+junk/ump-planet-theme
<godbyk-sagan> thanks
<godbyk-sagan> Ah, for the planet.  You'll need to talk to dutchie about that. It's hosted on his server.
<godbyk-sagan> (I just have planet.ubuntu-manual.org redirect to dutchie's server.)
<daker> ah oki
<godbyk-sagan> daker: Do you think our ubuntu-manual.org site is ready for hosting translated editions?
<godbyk-sagan> If not, what do we need to do still?
<godbyk-sagan> And can you fill me in on how it all works?
<godbyk-sagan> We'll probably be releasing the Greek and German translations soon.
<daker> give me moment i will test it
<godbyk-sagan> okay.
<daker> what's the name of the second edition ?
<godbyk-sagan> It will be "Getting Started with Ubuntu 10.04 (Second Edition)", I suppose.
<godbyk-sagan> Though I'm not referring to the second edition, rather, the translations of the first edition.
<daker> it will works :)
<godbyk-sagan> 'kay.
<godbyk-sagan> Will you be around next week and the week after?
<godbyk-sagan> I may need your help when we get around to releasing the translated editions.
<daker> i don't have holidays :) so i will be here all this month
<godbyk-sagan> Okay. Good to know. :)
<godbyk-sagan> I'm off to a banquet.  See you later!
<daker> see you
<jenkins> morning all
<thorwil> morning!
<thorwil> jenkins: where's your ubuntu? :)
<jenkins> hey thorwil, how are you?
<thorwil> jenkins: all fine, bracing myself for days with 35Â°C. and you?
<jenkins> I am good, as well thinking about what i should do today
<thorwil> jenkins: what are your options?
<jenkins> well, i have a model boat to do and quickshot, i need to pack stuff
<jenkins> probably all of them
<thorwil> model boat sounds best :)
<thorwil> wait, what am i saying, quickshot, of course!
<jenkins> lol :)
<jenkins> has anyone seen humphreybc recently?
<ChrisWoollard> Never :P
<jenkins> hey ChrisWoollard how are you today?
 * jenkins was ubuntujenkins
<ChrisWoollard> I am alright.
<ChrisWoollard> I notice you changed your name
<jenkins> yo good, got to make sure people work it out :)
<jenkins> *yo -> o
<ChrisWoollard> It isn't too difficult.
<ChrisWoollard> Why the change or do you not like Ubuntu any more :)
<thorwil> first the "ubuntu" goes and next you know it's fedorajenkins!! ;)
<ChrisWoollard> I think slackwarejenkins would be good
<jenkins> no it was to long and people in other channels can go "why do you use ubuntu you should use ...." and i thought it was childish
<ChrisWoollard> lol
<thorwil> heh
<ChrisWoollard> how did that fell.
<ChrisWoollard> feel
<jenkins> slackwarejenkins was very long ;)
<jenkins> man i should get up
<ChrisWoollard> I wonder what the maximum length is
<jenkins> erm ubuntujenkins-lernid if too long iirc
<jenkins> lol
<supercalifragili> :(
<supercalifragili> It couldn't cope with that
<supercalifragili> Argh
<jenkins> 16 characters if i can count
<jenkins> are you here twice?
<sonicbadger> my pc at home
<jenkins> i see
<ChrisWoollard> There we go. That is better
<ChrisWoollard> I had to ghost myself
 * jenkins thanks who ever changed my op nick
 * jenkins expects it was jussi
<jenkins> yea everything has been changed over now quickshotdevs is done
<jenkins> hey nisshh how are you
<jenkins> info quickshotdevs
<nisshh> jenkins: hey
<nisshh> im good, you?
<jenkins> I am good as well nisshh
<nisshh> jenkins: time for a nick change was it?
<jenkins> yea the other one was too long
<nisshh> hehe
<jenkins> morning zkriesse
<zkriesse> hi jenkins
<zkriesse> not been to bed yet
<zkriesse> so i'm out for four hours...
<zkriesse> cause thats all i can take
<zkriesse> got a meeting at 8 am and its 4 now
<zkriesse> lol
 * zkriesse out
<jenkins> night
<dutchie> o/
 * dutchie is back from Wales
<jenkins> hey dutchie
<jenkins> how was it
<dutchie> i have a glass of water
<dutchie> it is fine now :)
<jenkins> :)
<daker> dutchie, ping
<dutchie> daker: is this about the new theme?
<daker> yes
<dutchie> i'm just looking at it  now
<daker> oki
<dutchie> do you have to keep the PSD in there too?
<daker> no
<dutchie> it's a bit big for my liking
<dutchie> i'd rather it didn't end up like the lucid-e1 branch
<daker> ??
<dutchie> really really big
<daker> big ? what ?
<daker> ah you mean lucid-e1 ?
<dutchie> yeah
<daker> very big
<dutchie> daker: http://pastebin.com/qtvcC2uQ
<daker> oki
<daker> https://code.launchpad.net/~adnane002/+junk/ump-planet-theme
 * dutchie pulls
<dutchie> same error
<daker> pull
<daker> works ?
<dutchie> one moment
<daker> take your time
<dutchie> no errors
<dutchie> http://planet.ubuntu-manual.org/ ooh, shiny
<daker> yes yes
<daker> thanks dutchie :)
<dutchie> thank you, great design
<jenkins> daker: that was quick work getting the theme done
<daker> yep
<thorwil> daker: left side of the @ icon appears to be cut off
<daker> thorwil, i saw that
<thorwil> daker: also something wrong with the bottom edge of the ubuntu manual logo
<dutchie> the icons at the top meant to link to something
<dutchie> oh dear
<dutchie> those two days of heavy drinking have taken their toll
<daker> thorwil, you can check the psd
<daker> https://code.launchpad.net/~adnane002/+junk/ump-planet-theme
<daker> dutchie, yes
<thorwil> cool, it does open in gimp
<thorwil> daker: the left edge of the @ could be an anti-aliasing issue. the manual logo has been scaled and is blurry :(
<thorwil> daker: i'm not sure trying a ps, gimp, ps round trip would be a good idea
<daker> design = humphreybc
<daker> if something goes wrong with the design you should tell humphreybc
<daker> thorwil, i need a .ico of the manual logo
<daker> @all, if your tweets are not private, fill me you twitter
<dutchie> jshholland
<dutchie> could you not do it by the people @TheUbuntuManual follows?
<daker> really hard
<daker> and if someone has a private tweets the browser will tell the user to enter the login & pass
<dutchie> just a thought
<thorwil> daker: mailed Ben.
<thorwil> daker: what sizes do you want in the .ico?
<daker> oki thanks
<daker> a favicon
<daker> if i am not wrong 16x16
<thorwil> well, they can contain several sizes and browsers might show them larger than 16x16 if available
<thorwil> hmm, i have no sizes between 16 and 64
<thorwil> daker: favicon with 16 and 64 px and 8-bit transparency in your email
 * jenkins is making progress on quickshot
<daker> thorwil, thanks
<daker> dutchie, pull
<thorwil> np
<vish> daker: thanks! ;)
<vish> forgot about that link :D
<daker> next step : get more traffic around the planet
<daker> vish, np :)
<daker> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_OQpXk8vAQ&feature=player_embedded
<humphreybc> that was quick
<humphreybc> let me sort out those pictograms and email them to daker so they look better
<dutchie> see, i'm efficient, me
<humphreybc> did you do that?
<humphreybc> I presume the twitter API thing hasn't been sorted out yet :)
<humphreybc> hey daker!
<humphreybc> nice work on the planet :D
<jenkins> hey humphreybc
<dutchie> did i do what?
<humphreybc> I'll send you over the proper pictograms at the right resolution so they're not all cut off and fuzzy
<dutchie> i'm hosting the planet
<humphreybc> jenkins: Luke?
<humphreybc> dutchie: oh!
<jenkins> yep
<jenkins> humphreybc: juss-i swapped my ops name over to this nick as this is my new one
<humphreybc> groovy
<humphreybc> yes it's better
<humphreybc> oh the twitter API does work too!
<humphreybc> right, i'll be back soon
<humphreybc> thorwil: are you there?
<thorwil> humphreybc: halfway
<humphreybc> could you quickly create a logo that's 150px wide and email it to me?
<daker> humphreybc, thanks
<humphreybc> daker: I'm also getting you better quality pictograms to put up the top
<daker> oki
<jenkins> what do those pictograms link to? I don't know what they each mean
<thorwil> humphreybc: 150px, logo and "Ubuntu Manual Project" on the right?
<humphreybc> thorwil: no, 150px for the entire thing
<humphreybc> logo + text = 150px width
<humphreybc> jenkins: they will eventually link to each page on the main site, when that's built
<humphreybc> daker: I'm just changing a few things in the mockup and adding in stuff like the date it was published and when it was last updated, as well as the new pictograms and then I'll send it over to you
<daker> oki
<daker> http://validator.w3.org/mobile/?docAddr=http://ubuntu-manual.org
<jenkins> daker: why was a popup detected?
<humphreybc> daker: just sent you an email with the PSD file attached, please read through the list of changes. We have to wait till tomorrow to get the pictograms at the right resolution from the design team, and thorwil should send through a team logo at the right resolution soon
<thorwil> humphreybc: sadly i need to create a new size of the logo to make things fit into 150px without making either logo or text seem tiny in relation
<jenkins> humphreybc: the desgin team did our pictograms?
<humphreybc> jenkins: they're not *our* pictograms
<humphreybc> http://ubuntu.com
<dutchie> do any of the links on that site actually work? ;)
<dutchie> actually, that's a bit mean
<humphreybc> on which site?
<jenkins> wow I am supprised they are letting us use them
<dutchie> the planet
<humphreybc> jenkins: that's the whole point of them
<humphreybc> they're being made for all ubuntu web presence to try and unify it
<jenkins> o right isee
<humphreybc> no other community projects are using because they're a) too lazy or b) don't work with the design team as closely as we do
<humphreybc> also, they are still polishing up the guidelines for their use
<humphreybc> our project is a guinea pig
<humphreybc> so basically, when it comes to convincing other projects to get involved in creating and using pictograms, they can use UMP websites as a success story - and also publish guidelines based on what they learnt from our use of them
<dutchie> i think humphreybc just likes being experimental
<daker> jenkins, i don"t know what he is talking about
<thorwil> humphreybc, daker 150px UMP logo mailed to both of you
<humphreybc> great, thanks thorwil
<thorwil> you're welcome
<humphreybc> wait
<humphreybc> that's tiny
<humphreybc> is that 150px?
<humphreybc> oh shit
<humphreybc> I meant 250 :P
 * humphreybc is not thinking
<thorwil> humphreybc: now imagine my hands closing on your neck ...
<humphreybc> :D
<nisshh> hahaha, i just got a great furtune cookie message:
<nisshh> "To ensure you hit the target, load gun first"
<thorwil> humphreybc, daker 250px UMP logo mailed to both of you
 * dutchie reads the log from 29/06/10
<csgeek> hello all
<jenkins> hello csgeek
<csgeek> I was following:  http://ubuntu-manual.org/getinvolved/authors  I have all the packages checked out.  ./install-pkgs.sh seems happy.  I try to run make ubuntu-manual-en_GB.pdf and it fails right away.
<jenkins> csgeek: try just "make" first
<jenkins> which branch did you check out?
<csgeek> http://pastie.org/1026568
<csgeek>  bzr branch lp:ubuntu-manual
<csgeek> is make pdf just the dvi -> pdf transformation?
<jenkins> the translations are not started on that branch yet, we are still bug fixing then we will start the translations.
<csgeek> make works, with lots of warning, writes out 165 pages.
<csgeek> make pdf doesn't
<csgeek> same error
<jenkins> humphreybc: when are we releasing lucid-e2
<jenkins> csgeek: you want just "make" no pdf bit
<jenkins> in that folder should be a pdf file
<jenkins> you could also do "make show" that would show you the pdf
<jenkins> csgeek: can you pastebin the ubuntu-manual.log file please then i can look at the erros
<csgeek> that's interesting... it loads in evince but not in KDE's gwenview
<jenkins> that is strange
<csgeek> there's no ubuntu-manual.log, but I have a main.log
<jenkins> yea thats it I am getting confused
<csgeek> http://pastie.org/1026577
<csgeek> right.. gwenview isn't a pdf reader.  doh
<csgeek> it looks okay to me.  Latex always gives me warning.. or tends to be a very tempersome child
<jenkins> did you get something like  "Success!  Wrote 166 pages" at the end, the warnings that i have seen at the moment are nothing to worry about. did you install latex as per the site?
<vish> humphreybc: where was your mockup?
<vish> i seem to have lost it
<csgeek> hmmm... nice idea, though a lot of the sections could be far more in depth, or link up to references that go more in depth.
<jenkins> csgeek the idea is to start introducing people to ubuntu, we have great plans with the doc team to work on improving help.ubuntu.com
<jenkins> we could definatly add links to the wiki
<jenkins> *links in the pdf
<daker> jenkins, i didn't see anything about that
<daker> and if they are ready to work with us
 * vish grumbles!  contributors is not different from about us  :/
<jenkins> we just need to have the meeting to get this format decidedd
 * jenkins might e-mail the list
<daker> jenkins, are they oki to work with us ?
<zkriesse> mornin/afternoon/night fellow manual-ers
<jenkins> daker i don't think there is a problem tbh I think people are making the divide up to an extent. we all do have the goal of making ubuntu documentation better.
<jenkins> hey zkriesse
<jenkins> does any one know where the wiki page with the help.ubuntu.com mock ups are?
<daker> Mockups of the USLC ?
<jenkins> yea found it
<jenkins> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-support-and-learning-center
<jenkins> bens wiki page is very uptodate unlike mine
 * jenkins sends e-mail to all the teams
<dutchie> i think ben is planning to go for membership in the very near future
<jenkins> I would like to in 6-12 months
<jenkins> this is mine https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LukeJennings
<jenkins> its basically a template
<daker> hey thorwil are you arround ?
<thorwil> !
<daker> i want a favor, our loco need to update the logo
<daker> http://ubuntu-ma.org/
<daker> can you make some mockups pls, if you want
<daker> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_Morocco.svg
<thorwil> wow, without wanting to step on anyone's pride, that's a rather unfortunate color combination :)
<thorwil> daker: is there consensus in the team that https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MoroccanTeam?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=ubuntu-ma-logo-white.png doesn't cut it?
<daker> this one isn't really good i think
<thorwil> daker: i might get to it one of these days
<daker> Oh thanks :)
 * jenkins hopes quickshot is on thorwil's very long list ;)
<nisshh> guys: check the ML
<jenkins> what there is nothing there
<daker> ther is
<daker> there*
<jenkins> who sent it?
<daker> David Planella
<jenkins> i don't have it
 * jenkins reads it in launchpad
<jenkins> wow thats cool
<nisshh> jenkins: lol, you have slow updating email
<jenkins> its not in gmail web even
<nisshh> jenkins: wow, i got it like 5 seconds after i approved it
<jenkins> #ubuntutranslators
<jenkins> and the e-mail arives
<daker> \o/
<nisshh> hehe
<daker> vish, is there any psd of the original design https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Brand2?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=homepage.png ?
<vish> daker: i'm not sure there is
<vish> i mean in the open :)
<daker> vish ?
<vish> daker: i meant to say , i dont have it :D
<daker> i didn't receive anything :), that was a bug on ubuntu
<daker> did any one know how can i catch a X server bug ?
<jenkins> jam jar? ;D
<vish> lol!
<daker> what ?
<jenkins> one of these http://www.google.co.uk/images?client=ubuntu&channel=cs&q=jam%20jar&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi
<nisshh> lol...
<daker> lol
<jenkins> I have no useful answers but may be the bug team wiki might have something
<jenkins> try #ubuntu-bug ?
<jenkins> or #ubuntu-bugs one of those
<vish> #ubuntu-bugs
<vish> :)
<vish> #ubuntu-x is better for those problems
<daker> well i don't if it's X or not, but since i lost the X session and i can't access to the shell
<daker> konw*
<daker> on this desktop ubuntu is installed using wubi
<jenkins> be back in an hour
<jenkins> see ya
<daker> on the others desktop and the laptop ubuntu is working perfectly
<daker> see ya jenkins
<daker> http://www.ikiw.org/2009/04/02/when-starting-a-wiki-dont-forget-design/
<jenkins> godbyk: i guess you are not back yet but i have been playing with docbook to latex and it works quite nicely form the 5 mins i have done with it
 * flan pushes a bunch of QS server tweaks.
<flan> Hi, jenkins-who-used-to-be-ubuntu-jenkins.
<jenkins> hey flan
<daker> http://gobby.0x539.de/trac/wiki/WikiStart
<jenkins> if dpm comes on tell him i will be back in a 30-60 mins
<jenkins> evening all
<thorwil> good evening!
<jenkins> anyone else good with latex able to work out how to remove the very anoying table from page 2 of the pdf . (using this file http://pastebin.com/xABCYA7i )
<jenkins> i have tried for ages with no luck
<c7p> on what line (in tex file) does the pdf file start?
<csgeek> I can try in a minute... but it shouldn't be too complicated
<csgeek> as soon as I'm done breaking my kubuntu install
<jenkins> c7p: line 47
<jenkins> thanks guys
<jenkins> evince in mavrick is much clearer for images
<c7p> jenkins: do you have the pdf handy ?
<jenkins> c7p: try http://ubuntuone.com/p/8VC/
 * jenkins hopes ubuntuone works today
<jenkins> c7p: has kvein built the german manual yet?
<c7p> idk, maybe the autoscript did the job for him, but I don't know if he compiled it manually
<c7p> which table do you want to remove?
<jenkins> both on page two infact the whole of page two
<jenkins> i used dblatex to convet docbook to latex, that made the file
<c7p> so the whole content of page is for removal or only the two tables without their content ?
<jenkins> whole page, I would like it to go title page, content
<jenkins> no blank page or any tables inbetween
<c7p> i think i found the lines for removal
<c7p> hm the table must be from line 40-43, but I'm not completely sure
<jenkins> that does remove one iirc, you can build it by doing xelatex *.tex
<jenkins> nope it does not remove it
<jenkins> this is so anyoing
<c7p> i think the dblatex creates the table ... hold on
<jenkins> ChrisWoollard: can you have a glance over http://ubuntuone.com/p/8VC/ and see if there is anything that needs editing please?
<c7p> Guest57355: ÎºÎ±Î»Î·ÏÏÎ­ÏÎ±
<jenkins> c7p: dblatex gave me the .tex file. i think it puts something in the .tex file that makes the table.
<c7p> hm can you check the options of the programme ?
<jenkins> yea I am looking at them nothing about a table
<Guest57355> hey c7p
<c7p> can you help jenkins with his problem ?
<jenkins> hey Guest57355 basically i want to remove everything on page two of http://ubuntuone.com/p/8VC/ and the page its self the tex file is  http://pastebin.com/xABCYA7i
<Guest57355> let me see
<jenkins> thanks
<Guest57355> jenkins s there a docbook.sty that dblatex produced too?
<jenkins> Guest57355: not in the same folder, i will check the file system just incase
<jenkins> Guest57355: i think you might be onto something, the files in the doc folder all have that silly table in them
<jenkins> found it /usr/share/texmf/tex/latex/dblatex/style/docbook.sty
<jenkins> Guest57355: what do i change to make it not use that style?
<Guest57355> you may comment out thw usepackage{docbook} line but there might be some errors, i'm onto it
<jenkins> yea that errors, thanks Guest57355 i will see if there is a crazy flag i can enable when making the .tex file to stop it using the bits that cause the error
<Guest57355> well i managed to get rid of the two first pages
<jenkins> o cool how?
<jenkins> the first page was nice
<jenkins> but it is a good start
<Guest57355> you can comment out \maketitle line49
<Guest57355> but this is not a solution
<Guest57355> the best option would be a few changes at the preamble unless you want to keep the style that docbook produces
<dutchie> is Guest57355 godbyk ?
<daker> no
<jenkins> I think i will scrap the preamble and start my own.
 * jenkins starts to learn
<jenkins> thanks Guest57355, i am removing bits and i will see what i get
<Guest57355> actually you should remove evreything that refers to docbook and DBK commands. Also, remove hypersetup and use package {hyperref} instead
<jenkins> Guest57355: thanks that comfirms my thinking
<Guest57355> i'm working on a few modifications, i ll submit them to you
<jenkins> cool thanks that sounds great
<jenkins> I am not liking dblatex at the moment i think i need to understand it better
<Guest57355> well the problem is that dblatex produces its own style and custom commands that in "clean" latex don't exist. It needs a general review before getting an output via xelatex
<daker> jenkins, what you are trying to do ?
<jenkins> Guest57355: yep i will hopefully find a way to sort that
<jenkins> daker: well i am trying to sort out the translators translations guide thing on the mailing list
<daker> ah oki
<jenkins> we also needed to look into docbook -> latex conversion so it helps. not that i like it at the moment
<daker> brb
<Guest57355> jenkins, sth like this http://pastebin.com/2QPt0vkL would be a good place to start
<Guest57355> produces sth like http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3182263/jenkins.pdf
<Guest57355> of course i don't have the pic's
<jenkins> thanks Guest57355 how would i decrease the margins so they are 2 cm each?
<Guest57355> \usepackage[top=2cm, bottom=2cm, left=2cm, right=2cm]{geometry}
<Guest57355> and adding \newpage after \maketitle and \tableofcontents would be good too
<jenkins> I have
<jenkins> \documentclass{article}
<jenkins> \usepackage{graphicx}
<jenkins> \usepackage{hyperref}
<jenkins> \usepackage[top=2cm, bottom=2cm, left=2cm, right=2cm]{geometry}
<jenkins> is that correct?
<Guest57355> correct. of course you should add fontspec, xltxtra
<jenkins> your file gives me http://pastebin.com/embeaCHc when i copy what you pasted earlier
<Guest57355> http://pastebin.com/2QPt0vkL
<c7p> night all
<Guest57355> i think that link works
<jenkins> yep that paste still getting it
<Guest57355> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3182263/jenkins.tex
<jenkins> still got the erroe
<jenkins> r
<jenkins> also the geometry does not work. I should let you go to bed, i must be late for you
<Guest57355> try these http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3182263/jenkins.tex and http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3182263/jenkins.pdf
<Guest57355> and \documentclass[xetex]{article}
<Guest57355> except from the not boxes that should be replaced with another command everything seems fine
<jenkins> thanks Guest57355 your great!
<Guest57355> hope it helps
<jenkins> it will do :)
<jenkins> hey humphreybc
<humphreybc> HEY
<jenkins> how are you?
<humphreybc> IT'S FUCKING EARLY AND I HAVEN'T HAD MUCH SLEEP
<humphreybc> BUT that's okay
<jenkins> language :)
<humphreybc> there's plenty of work soon and my coffee should kick in
<humphreybc> (take soon and put it at the end of that sentence)
<humphreybc> at least it's sunny
<jenkins> hehe, you and i always talk when one is getting up and the other is going to bed :)
<dutchie> this is because humphreybc lives in a stupid time zone
<humphreybc> In all fairness, New Zealand makes up for the poor timezone in other ways
 * jenkins knows why it just apears strange
<dutchie> what sort of other ways?
<humphreybc> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand
<dutchie> that's the wikipedia article on new zealand
<humphreybc> it is
<dutchie> unless you've just changed it to "NZ IS AWESUM", it doesn't really help your argument
<humphreybc> we have smooth wool
 * jenkins has been an idiot none of my changes were working because i saved the file in another folder. doh! idiot alert
<jenkins> :(
<jenkins> night all
#ubuntu-manual 2010-07-02
<jenkins> morning all
<ChrisWoollard> morning Mr Jenkins
<jenkins> hey ChrisWoollard
<thorwil> morning!
<ChrisWoollard> I looks lovely outside
<jenkins> it better cheer up otherwise i am going to get wet this weekend
 * nisshh has finished college for the semester
<jenkins> yey nisshh
<nisshh> jenkins: yea, its a good feeling
<jenkins> i bet
<nisshh> hehe
<thorwil> hi vish
<vish> thorwil: Guten Morgen ;)
<thorwil> heh, wow :)
<thorwil> vish: i don't even know what your native tongue is!
<vish> thorwil: google translate fwiw :D
<vish> today gonna debug my webcam! darn thing hasnt been working for a long time!
<thorwil> vish: hope there are no fire ants in there!!
<vish> ha!
<jenkins> vish use a jam jar to catch any bugs :P
<vish> not the jar again ;p
<thorwil> vish: would you like to talk about your traumatic experiences with a jar?
<vish> thorwil: yeah , heard the same jar joke yesterday , is kinda traunatic to hear it again  ;p
 * vish hides from jenkins 
<thorwil> ah, jenkins needs a sensitivity training, then ^^
<vish> yesterday it was better with pictures and all.. today jenkins just got lazy , no pictures ;p
<jenkins> lol
<jenkins> there were only pictures a daker did not know what a jam jar is
<c7p> jenkins do you use social networks ?
<jenkins> c7p i am on twitter and facebook
<c7p> nice :D
<c7p> may i add you?
<c7p> or you add only friends of yours?
<jenkins> see you in a couple of days o/
<thorwil> nice. http://etherkiller.org/
<nisshh> thorwil: that etherkiller is cool, hehe
<thorwil> :)
<vish> heh , i thought i was gonna be about etherpad killer!
<thorwil> well, nowadays, ether makes me think -pad often enough
<vish> zkriesse: your mail to docs went straight to bulk! ;p
<vish> hint , never send messages with subject "Hi!"
<zkriesse> vish: meaning?
<vish> it got tagged spam ;)
<zkriesse> damn
<zkriesse> i sent it to the one phil bull told me to send it to
<thorwil> and green in the subject makes it go to hulk!
<vish> hehe
<zkriesse> ah shit
<zkriesse> resend it then?
<thorwil> zkriesse: no, someone made it get through
<thorwil> you should have received a copy via the list, too
<zkriesse> ok cool
<c7p> URUGUAY :D
<dutchie> if c7p was still here, i would have told him that Ghana deserved to win
#ubuntu-manual 2010-07-03
<nisshh> humphreybc: are you there?
<nisshh> probably asleep dammit
<vish> pff , he is slacker ;p
<nisshh> vish: yea, bloody tell me about it :)
<nisshh> hehe, nah its 3:30am for him, i would be asleep at that time too
<thorwil> :D
<nisshh> hey thorwil
<thorwil> hi nisshh
<nisshh> whats up?
<thorwil> 4:0!
<nisshh> ??
<nisshh> you mean 4am?
<thorwil> no, diego maradona is very sad now
<nisshh> ah
<nisshh> ok
 * nisshh is waiting for humphreybc to wake the hell up so he can talk to him about something
#ubuntu-manual 2010-07-04
<nisshh> humphreybc: ping
 * nisshh thinks humphreybc is ignoring him... :)
<humphreybc> nisshh: wazzup?
<godbyk-sagan> humphreybc ignores everyone. don't take it personally, nisshh. :)
<humphreybc> godbyk-sagan: where are my translated editions?
<godbyk-sagan> who knows?
<godbyk-sagan> i just got off the train today.
<godbyk-sagan> tomorrow's a holiday, so I'll have to do family stuff.
<humphreybc> excuses excuses :P
<godbyk-sagan> then monday, I drive back home.
<godbyk-sagan> :)
<godbyk-sagan> humphreybc: I s'pose you could always step in and take over for me. ;-)
<humphreybc> pah! I have enough to do as it is!
<godbyk-sagan> heh.
<godbyk-sagan> did we get a USLC meeting scheduled?
<humphreybc> dunno, i'm staying out of that
<godbyk-sagan> ah.
<godbyk-sagan> I just saw some of the emails flying by.
<godbyk-sagan> Haven't had time to read the thread yet.
<godbyk-sagan> I have a lot of catching up to do. :-/
<humphreybc> join the club
<godbyk-sagan> you still have school stuff?
<humphreybc> nah, i've been doing other ubuntu things during these holidays
<humphreybc> lots of mockups for sites and themes and shit
<nisshh> humphreybc: your alive!
<humphreybc> need to write some more OMG! Ubuntu! articles
<godbyk-sagan> gotcha.
<humphreybc> USLC is but a dream right now
<godbyk-sagan> we'll get there someday.
<humphreybc> I need to get on to those quickstart booklets
<humphreybc> yeah, eventually
<nisshh> humphreybc: i was just going to ask you what the hell is going on with the various projects and stuff lately, check the ML for lukes post
<humphreybc> nisshh: yes I saw
<godbyk-sagan> yeah, what quick-start booklets are you wanting to do?
<humphreybc> godbyk-sagan: probably start with an installation one just to get the format and stuff down
<humphreybc> nisshh: what do you want to know?
<humphreybc> I've been planning on doing an update email for the team
<nisshh> humphreybc: oh good
<godbyk-sagan> humphreybc: there was some chatter a while back on the ubuntu-docs mailing list about an 'installing ubuntu' guide.
<humphreybc> godbyk-sagan: course there was
<godbyk-sagan> they were looking at just reusing our chapter as a start. not sure if anyone got anywhere with it or not.
<humphreybc> probably not
<godbyk-sagan> i haven't seen anything about it lately.
<humphreybc> if I had a dollar for every time someone suggested something that wasn't done in that list...
<humphreybc> at least they're not as bad as ayatana though
<nisshh> i know iv been doing other stuff lately but i want to know whats happening with stuff like the learning centre and what is and isnt going in the 10.10 manual and whatnot
<godbyk-sagan> (It bothers me that the right Shift key on my laptop doesn't work too well.  Means 'I' doesn't get capitalized as often as it should.)
<humphreybc> nisshh: learning center is still a concept and under planning, probably won't happen for some time
<nisshh> humphreybc: right
<godbyk-sagan> the ayatana list has been pretty noisy the past few months. I've gotten to the point where I don't bother to read the threads because i don't have enough time to participate anyway.
<humphreybc> 10.10 manual will basically be the same as 10.04 with a few chapters removed, and a couple of extra sections added plus of course updated screenshots
<humphreybc> yeah, I don't read the shit in the ayatana mailing list
<nisshh> hehe, ok
<godbyk-sagan> nisshh: we'll need to update the 10.10 manual to include all the new default apps, for instance.
<humphreybc> btw, i'm applying for membership on tuesday in #ubuntu-meeting at 1000 UTC, if anyone wants to show up and support me :)
<nisshh> godbyk-sagan: ah yea, i forgot about shotwell and that other one i cant remember
<nisshh> humphreybc: ill be your cheer squad!
<humphreybc> :)
<humphreybc> i'm slowly working through all my post it notes
<humphreybc> oh yeah, I want to change our team name, btw
<nisshh> humphreybc: be great if we could find something for me to do now that im on mid year break for a few weeks
<humphreybc> nisshh: fix bugs, start figuring out what's new in maverick and make a list of stuff we need to change/add/remove for 10.10 manual
<humphreybc> install maverick alpha 2 in a virtualbox and list shit in an etherpad
<nisshh> humphreybc: yea, the problem with making a list now is stuff will change since its only alpha 2 :)
<humphreybc> well, go into #ubuntu-desktop and pester the shit out of Rick and the gang to figure out what's going to stay the same
<nisshh> hehe, yea ill start with that
<humphreybc> also, find out what's happening with their developers manual
<humphreybc> and ask if they need any help
<nisshh> right
<humphreybc> and help godbyk get translations out ASAP
<humphreybc> like, this week
<nisshh> yea
<nisshh> are there lots of finished ones are there?
<humphreybc> i'll be around a bit more this week
<humphreybc> I think german, galician, english UK, spanish are done?
<humphreybc> at least
<nisshh> i know the german one has been sitting there for like a month now
<godbyk-sagan> the only ones I've had contact with recently are german and greek.
<humphreybc> okay, well, sort out what needs to be fixed for them, hunt down the right people and release them
<godbyk-sagan> i think the english uk, galician, etc. are still being edited.
<humphreybc> and start brainstorming a new name for our team
<humphreybc> maybe changing for maverick, or maverick +1
<godbyk-sagan> humphreybc: what kind of new name are you thinking about?
<humphreybc> something that is better than our current one
<godbyk-sagan> humphreybc: as in, what should it encompass? what's wrong with the existing name, etc.?
<humphreybc> current name was only meant to be temporary
<godbyk-sagan> oops. :)
<humphreybc> well, for one, very soon we won't just be making manuals
<humphreybc> and it's a shit name, not original, not catchy, far too literal and doesn't embody everything we do. it's also too long.
<humphreybc> i have one or two ideas for new ones, but i'm still mulling
<godbyk-sagan> i see.
<nisshh> hmmm
<nisshh> humphreybc: what are your ideas on the name so far, maybe ill get inspired
<nisshh> :)
<humphreybc> so I looked at what we do
<humphreybc> and we create materials and programs that aid us in making materials to _help users_
<humphreybc> we're a support team, right?
<nisshh> technically yes
<humphreybc> so I started looking up the words "help" and "support" in different languages
<humphreybc> you know, because "Project Help" or "Project Support" is a bit gay
<nisshh> very gay
<humphreybc> anyway, the Maori word for "help" is "Awhina" (pronounced "ow-feena")
<humphreybc> Project Awhina
<humphreybc> or, the spanish translation of help is "Ayuda"
<humphreybc> Project Ayuda
<godbyk-sagan> Then you have to tackle the pronunciation issues.
<humphreybc> but that's about all I have
<nisshh> urh
<godbyk-sagan> (that's the major downside of foreign words... people mispronouncing them all the time.)
<humphreybc> godbyk-sagan: I don't think that's a huge issue, Ubuntu has pronunciation issues
<humphreybc> anyway, something to think about
<nisshh> thats true
<godbyk-sagan> yeah.
<godbyk-sagan> oo-boon-too.  it's just that simple. :)
<humphreybc> I don't think they're particularly good
<godbyk-sagan> not oo-bun-too.
 * humphreybc says oo-bun-too
<godbyk-sagan> not uh-bun-too.
<godbyk-sagan> humphreybc is wrong. :)
<humphreybc> i know
<humphreybc> anyway, i gotta boot into windows and do some work
<godbyk-sagan> boo!
<nisshh> i know people who say U-bunt-u
<nisshh> yuck!
<humphreybc> i'll be back on IRC in a sec
<humphreybc> windows 7 is actually pretty nice
<godbyk-sagan> 'kay.
<nisshh> godbyk-sagan: did humphreybc just say that windows is NICE!?
<godbyk-sagan> sounded like it to me.
<godbyk-sagan> but he clings to photoshop, too. ;-)
 * nisshh hides
<nisshh> yea
<godbyk-sagan> nisshh: Ssh! He's back!
<nisshh> godbyk-sagan: aaaaahhhhhh ruuunnnn!
<humphreybc> ...
<godbyk-sagan> humphreybc: nothing. ;-)
 * nisshh is still running away...
<nisshh> now this is what i call a bit paranoid: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/07/ubuntu-1010-countdown-script-lets-you.html
<godbyk-sagan> nisshh: yeah, I don't need to know that every time I log in. thanks, anyway.
<godbyk-sagan> well, guys, I think I'm going to go to bed and read for a while.
<godbyk-sagan> I didn't get much sleep on the train.
<nisshh> ok fair enough, i dont want to use that script either tbh, i can count :)
<nisshh> humphreybc: http://typewith.me/h2Y9bitvCI
<nisshh> if you can think of any more changes that have happened please add them
<humphreybc> i don't think banshee is going to replace rhythmbox
<nisshh> i will install maverick a2 today
<humphreybc> and the global menu won't be in the desktop, just netbook (for now)
<nisshh> humphreybc: i dont either but i just put it there
<nisshh> ah ok
<nisshh> humphreybc: any other app changes other than shotwell?
<humphreybc> I don't think so
<nisshh> are there any ubuntu one changes do you know?
<humphreybc> not sure
<nisshh> hmm, ok ill post this to the ML and see what others say
<nisshh> using my new GMAIL account!
<nisshh> :)
<nisshh> humphreybc: mail sent to the ML
<humphreybc> groovy
<thorwil> morning!
<thorwil> nisshh: good idea to start documenting changes for 10.0
<nisshh> thorwil: thanks
<nisshh> feel free to add stuff
<daker> hi
<thorwil> hi daker
<daker> thorwil, thanks for what you have done :)
<thorwil> daker: you're welcome. do you have a favorite already?
<daker> not yet i waiting for replies from the loco
<askhl_> Hi.  Roughly how frequently do you build the manual?  We've gone from 8% to 23% since last build, and it would be nice to sort of have a look at the big picture
<askhl_> (I refer to the reports on builds.ubuntu-manual.org)
<askhl_> Also I'm talking about translations, by the way
<askhl__> (sorry for popping out so quickly, battery was low)
<godbyk-sagan> askhl__: I build the manuals by running a script; it's not automated.
<godbyk-sagan> askhl__: I've been away at a conference this past week and a half.
<godbyk-sagan> askhl__: I will be home again late Monday or Tuesday, so I'll upload new builds then.
<askhl__> godbyk-sagan, great, I look forward to seeing all new the Danish text in 'print' :)
<jenkins> hello all
<godbyk-sagan> Hey, jenkins.  Did you ever get ops sorted out on your new nick?
<jenkins> yep i think juss-i did it for me
<godbyk-sagan> askhl__: Definitely. It's also a lot easier to read through and spot typos and other errors. :)
<godbyk-sagan> cool.
<godbyk-sagan> someday someone will have to show me how to use ops.
<godbyk-sagan> (i was a channel op about 15 years ago on a different network, but it wasn't something i had to request and then abdicate all the time.)
<jenkins> godbyk-sagan: I will show you some time if have worked out how to do it and i have a good link
<godbyk-sagan> jenkins: sounds like a plan.
<jenkins> sorry that should read i haev worked it out
<godbyk-sagan> jenkins: Do you have a link handy to our translations to do list?
<godbyk-sagan> jenkins: Can you remind me what all I need to do for the German and Greek translations?
<jenkins> i have the link here
<jenkins> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/translationtodo
<godbyk-sagan> thanks.
<godbyk-sagan> I'm going to take a shower and wake up.  Then I'll go through my recent email and see where we left off on the translations.
<godbyk-sagan> I have dinner tonight at my grandmother's house, but I should have a few hours this afternoon to play around.
<jenkins> I have just sent you the latest file form c7p and all that needs doing is to compile it and fix the error due to the glossary
<godbyk-sagan> sweet.
<godbyk-sagan> okay.
<jenkins> and then a double check
<godbyk-sagan> yeah, when I get home I need to ensure that the makefile and build script use the same build procedure.
<godbyk-sagan> jenkins: has this file been updated in bzr yet?
<jenkins> german we have a whole load of stuff that has been translated and needs to be added, I also have some adjusments form thorwil to the translations on the mailing list
<jenkins> godbyk-sagan: nope not as far as i know
<godbyk-sagan> okay.
<godbyk-sagan> also, I had a chat with Don Knuth about some margin-note stuff while we walked to the restaurant.  I also chatted with the guy who gave this talk: http://tug.org/tug2010/abstracts/hicks.txt
<godbyk-sagan> So hopefully we'll get the margin notes to work a bit more smoothly in the future.
<godbyk-sagan> be back in about 30 minutes.
<godbyk-sagan> Back now.
<jenkins_> be back later
<jenkins> evening all
<zkriesse> hey jenkins
 * jenkins thinks about the things still to do on quickshot
<godbyk-sagan> how's quickshot coming along?  or has quickshot development been on hiatus, too?
<jenkins> quickshot is getting there i have to gui to a stage where we have buttons that make windows appear. I need to do the stuff in between and I am poking the layout as I notice it looking wrong.
<godbyk-sagan> cool
<jenkins> flan: is doing well on the server
<godbyk-sagan> I know flan's made a lot of progress on the server side, it seems.
<jenkins> the in between bits will be easy enough, mostly looking at cross linux support and better ways of doing things
<godbyk-sagan> I see.
<flan> I'm at a standstill because I'm preparing to move.
<flan> I'll still makde advances whenever I have time.
<godbyk-sagan> flan: where are you moving to?
<flan> Just elsewhere in Calgary.
<flan> First home-thing.
<godbyk-sagan> ah
<thorwil> jenkins, flan, vish: thoughts on this very rough quickshot icon concept?
<vish> thorwil: hmm, which one?
<thorwil> http://www.foopics.com/showfull/e7c1ccf3d317f2c42d08c17dde86f56d
 * jenkins looks
<thorwil> vish: the one i forgot to paste :9
<godbyk-sagan> thorwil: do you think that the camera being viewed from that angle would be recognizable as such?
<jenkins> I am not much of an artist but is the stack of pictures the desktop or a window or just a image?
<flan> Though it'd totally ruin the shading, it kinda seems liek the camera should be below or to the side of the target.
 * vish likey camera ;)
<thorwil> this illustrates the origin of the concept: http://www.photoinfos.com/Fotolabor/Repro/repro-002.jpg
<flan> Maybe something more like a consumer-grade digital camera might be more immediately recognizable.
<thorwil> godbyk-sagan: a bit stylized it might work well enough. not the optimal view of a camera, but can't tell the story otherwise
<thorwil> jenkins: it's a stack of screenshots to be taken
<godbyk-sagan> thorwil: Right. As long as the camera is recognizable as a camera. :)
<jenkins> ok makes sense.
<godbyk-sagan> I think it'd be better if the viewing angle were different. Perhaps an isometric side view.  We don't usually think of taking pictures of a screen from above like that.
<jenkins> the only tiny bit of an idea is I like the shutter icon and it's jagged curve and may be make it so you were looking though a camera lense. showing that you are looking through a lense by the picture being cut at the top and bottom (or sides) with a wiggle like on the lense of http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7d/Panasonic_DMC-TZ3.JPG&imgrefurl=http://commons.wiki
 * jenkins not sure if the link is long enough
<jenkins> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Panasonic_DMC-TZ3.JPG
<godbyk-sagan> link no worky.
<jenkins> thats better
<godbyk-sagan> ah, that works
<jenkins> I have no idea how to do it and it could look rubish. but thats my only idea
<flan> What about a straight-on view of a camera like the one Lunk just linked, but branded with the name 'Quickshot'?
<flan> Luke*
<jenkins> may be do thorwil's idea but looking from behind the camera
<flan> I can't type.
<jenkins> but not a dirrect view a slight angle
<thorwil> flan: open the Applications menu, Accesoires. than think about a readable "brand" name again ;)
<godbyk-sagan> thorwil: Sorry you asked yet? :)
<godbyk-sagan> I like the F-Spot shutter icon. Can we just steal it from them. ;-)
<thorwil> godbyk-sagan: nah, my nerves are made of rust ... eh steel
<flan> I suppose it'd look too much like the 'Take Screenshot' item, too...
<flan> Okay, bad idea.
<vish> godbyk-sagan: yeah , f-spot is pretty neat  thorwil: any idea who did the f-spot icon?
<thorwil> nope
<godbyk-sagan> Hey, c7p. Have I had you guys translate the back-cover text yet?
<c7p> back cover ?
<c7p> let me find the text
<godbyk-sagan> c7p: Yeah, the few paragraphs on the back cover of the printed book.
<godbyk-sagan> thorwil will need that so he can create the cover.
 * vish brb
<jenkins> brb
<c7p> well colophon => translated, that's the only paragraphs at the end of file
<c7p> i mean the translated
<godbyk-sagan> c7p: Okay. Let me send you the paragraphs.  They're short.
<c7p> ah btw should the "Creative Commons Notice" be translated >
<c7p> ?*
<c7p> ok :)
<godbyk-sagan> c7p: Where does that text appear?
<c7p> its on the license section
<jenkins> i like the swirl of the fspot icon. what about looking through  that short of shape at some screenshots.  the trouble is it may not show in the icon it would when we use the logo in the program its self
<thorwil> c7p: i think godbyk means the text on the backside of the lulu cover: http://pastebin.com/6nYhxSYR
<c7p> thx thorwil :)
<godbyk-sagan> thorwil: Yeah, that's the text.  Thanks!
<godbyk-sagan> I was having trouble tracking it down.
<thorwil> np
<godbyk-sagan> c7p: That's the text that appears on the back cover of the printed book.  If you can translate that text and email it to thorwil, we should be able to get the cover created soon.
<jenkins> thorwil: I think that the jury is out on that idea I like the use of the pile of screenshots rather than just one
<thorwil> godbyk-sagan: the lulu_en.svg is the only place it exists as text, i think :/
<godbyk-sagan> thorwil: Quite possibly.  I just found a copy of that file in the lucid-1e-en repository.
<jenkins> its very hard to think off what to do for an icon
<vish> lets just be lazy and use "QS" as the icon ;p
<thorwil> ah, this model would really help with recognizability: http://jasonglewis.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/FujiFilm-GF670-Professional-medium-format-folding-camera-top.jpg !!
<jenkins> yea what about from that view and have the stack of screenshot in front of it
<jenkins> ?
<jenkins> would it look a bit small in the menu? I suppose it depends on detail
<thorwil> jenkins: camera straight down is pretty much the only way how i can show a stack and camera in one perspective and keeping it somewhat simple on the camera
<jenkins> fair enough, you are far better at inkscape than i am
<c7p> what do you mean by "scanning documents" (http://pastebin.com/6nYhxSYR) ?
<thorwil> the real quickshot: http://www.cbmhardware.de/misc/joystick/39.jpg. i think my brother one of those for his amiga 2000
<jenkins> hehe
<c7p> lol
<Guest93627> ÏÎ±ÏÏÏÎ· ÎµÎ³Î³ÏÎ±ÏÏÎ½
<c7p> that icon should be the "Take screenshot" buttom ;P
<thorwil> c7p: scanning documents -> http://www.itreviews.co.uk/graphics/normal/hardware/h1376.jpg
<c7p> nice thx
 * thorwil hopes we actually have a section about scanning
<jenkins> ÎÎ»ÏÎ¯Î¶Ï ÎºÏÎ»Î±ÏÎ· ÎµÎ¯ÏÎ±ÏÎµ Î¼Î¹Î± ÎºÎ±Î»Î® Î·Î¼Î­ÏÎ± c7p ÎºÎ±Î¹ Guest93627
<c7p> haha jenkins whats that
<jenkins> its greek, i think. In english it is "hello hope you had a good day"
<c7p> haha
<jenkins> typo this is it Î³ÎµÎ¹Î¬ ÏÎ¿Ï
<jenkins> Â ÎµÎ»ÏÎ¯Î¶Ï Î½Î± ÎµÎ¯ÏÎ±ÏÎµ Î¼Î¹Î± ÎºÎ±Î»Î® Î·Î¼Î­ÏÎ±
<c7p> "I hope hell you had a good day c7p anf Guest93627" that's what first message
<c7p> the second is ok :P
<jenkins> hehe I should check what i type
<c7p> the first message was*
<c7p> Guest93627: http://pastebin.gr/953 check it
<jenkins> godbyk-sagan: how would i go about searching every file in a folder and its subfolders for the work wnck ?
<jenkins> *word
<jenkins> *do you know
<jenkins> no worries found it thanks
<jenkins> good night all
<c7p> night jenkins
<daker> good evening / morning
<c7p> hi daker
<c7p> godbyk-sagan: the back cover text has been translated and sent to thorwil, anything else ?
<c7p> night all
#ubuntu-manual 2011-07-02
<issyl0> Hi.  Has anyone seen Shrinivasan around?
#ubuntu-manual 2012-06-30
<godbyk> Hey, thorwil. Are you around?
<thorwil> godbyk: could be :)
<godbyk> In the mood to generate a lulu cover for me?  I'm working to publish the manual today.
<thorwil> godbyk: all that's left should be the spine width, right?
<godbyk> thorwil: I think so. I've got the numbers from the lulu website.
<godbyk> Spine width: 23.51 Postscript points wide (0.327") (98 px)
<godbyk> Spine begins 621 Postscript points (8.63") (2588 px) from the left.
<godbyk> Total cover width: 1265.51 X 810 Postscript points (17.58" X 11.25") (5273px X 3375px)
<thorwil> ok
<godbyk> I think I trimmed a couple pages out, so that may have screwed up our original estimates a bit.
<thorwil> godbyk: what's the bleed?
<godbyk> thorwil: lemme check.
<godbyk> looks like it's 0.125" for each edge.
<thorwil> godbyk: shall i add a pdf, too?
<godbyk> thorwil: Yeah, you may as well. I'll have to create one to upload anyway.  Thanks!
<thorwil> godbyk: oh, and it seems lulu_en.svg should become lulu_en_US.svg, right?
<godbyk> thorwil: Probably, yeah.
<godbyk> thorwil: If we're using en for A4 and en_US for US letter size..
<thorwil> godbyk: pushed
<godbyk> thorwil: Danke!
<thorwil> kein problem :)
<godbyk> Okay, Getting Started with Ubuntu 12.04 has now been published.
<thorwil> *clap* *clap*
<godbyk> Now I have to write the release notice.
<godbyk> Now to see about dropping this into the software center.
<thorwil> g'night!
* godbyk changed the topic of #ubuntu-manual to: Ubuntu Manual Project discussion | Precise edition released! | Style Guide: http://files.ubuntu-manual.org/style-guide.pdf | Website: http://ubuntu-manual.org | Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual | IRC logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com
#ubuntu-manual 2013-06-24
<CrazyLemon> hey guys. where could i get Ubuntu Manual logo in preferably .svg format? :)
<CarstenG> Hi CrazyLemon
<CrazyLemon> hey CarstenG
<CarstenG> Did you had a look to the repository?
<CarstenG> I guess there is one?
<CrazyLemon> CarstenG you mean on launchpad?
<CarstenG> yes
<CarstenG> Have a look to the Â»lulu-en_US.svgÂ« in the directory Â»titlepageÂ« of the saucy branch.
<CrazyLemon> yea..thats the front page.. i'm looking for the logo http://ubuntu-manual.org/images/header.png
<CrazyLemon> oh wait..its there but its tiny..  it will do
<CrazyLemon> tnx CrazyLemon
<CrazyLemon> blah
<CarstenG> Yes, and in this file the logo is included.
<CrazyLemon> CarstenG *
<CrazyLemon> yea.. i didnt see it the first time :)
<CarstenG> :-)
<CarstenG> What do you want to do with it?
<CrazyLemon> CarstenG i wanna include ubuntu manual in a custom localized ubuntu
<CarstenG> You are doing a own distro?
<CrazyLemon> CarstenG naah.. ubuntu but localized and with some localized stuff in it
<CarstenG> ah, ok
<CrazyLemon> tnx guys and take care
#ubuntu-manual 2013-06-28
<CarstenG> Hi all
<hannie> Hey CarstenG
<CarstenG> TeXLive 2013 is available since some days...
<CarstenG> Did anybody test it if it works with our project?
<hannie> ok. did you install it?
<hannie> I haven't (yet)
<hannie> Perhaps you can ask via our mailing list
<hannie> I have installed Saucy alpha using Testdrive
<CarstenG> No, I did not yet install it.
<CarstenG> But I will try it on my saucy alpha...
<hannie> ...and publish the result on the ML :)
<CarstenG> Sure :-)
<godbyk> CarstenG: I've tested it.
<godbyk> CarstenG: There's an issue with the glossaries package.
<godbyk> CarstenG: A bug in the glossaries package was preventing our manual from compiling.
<godbyk> CarstenG: I've added a workaround to our ubuntu-manual.cls file in raring. I haven't copied it to saucy yet.
<godbyk> CarstenG: Otherwise the manual seems to compile but I haven't had a chance to fully review it yet.
<godbyk> CarstenG: (That's why I haven't emailed the list about TL 2013 yet.)
<CarstenG> Hi Kevin
<CarstenG> Thanks for this information.
<godbyk> No problem.
<godbyk> I'll be back in just a bit.
<CarstenG> Did you already upload the change?
<godbyk> I uploaded the change to raring ubuntu-manual.cls
<godbyk> It's near the bottom of the file with a lengthy comment explaining it.
<CarstenG> in wich rev?
<CarstenG> which
<CarstenG> I don't see a change after the release of TL2013
<godbyk> Let me check.
<CarstenG> I have rev 267 in raring
<manualbot> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/raring/revision/267 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/raring -r 267
<manualbot`> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/raring/revision/267 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/raring -r 267
<godbyk> Hmm.. strange.
<godbyk> Maybe the changes didn't get pushed.
<godbyk> I did the work on my laptop while I was at my parents' house last week. Their Internet connection kept cutting out.
<godbyk> I'll check on my laptop this evening and push the changes.
<CarstenG> ok
<godbyk> brb
<godbyk> back
#ubuntu-manual 2013-06-29
<hannie> Hi all
<JimConnett> Good morning/afternoon/evening!
<hannie> (late)afternoon here
<hannie> hi jonathan
<CarstenG> Hi all
<jpickett> rocking the 2am part of the planet
<jmarsden> Hello all.  9am here.
<JimConnett> BIG +1 to jpickett!
<hannie> Funny to see al those differences in time
<JimConnett> both funny...and AWESOME!
<CarstenG> Where are you jpickett?
<hannie> The sun hides behind the clouds here in France
<JimConnett> ...guessing jmarsden and I are in the same TZ.  Same time here.
<JimConnett> ...we'll wait just a couple of minutes for stragglers, then get started.
<hannie> ok
<hannie> JimConnett, before we start, I have added a column to our spreadsheet "Authors & Editors (Pages)
<CarstenG> Hannie, nice to see the Dutch translation of raring finished. :-)
<hannie> CarstenG, yeah ;) Sadly I haven't got time to do the screenshots
<hannie> hey PatrickDickey
<CarstenG> Hi Patrick
<CarstenG> Well, if you need help, drop a note...
<JimConnett> msg hannie I saw...thanks!
<Joel_> Eastern Australia
<PatrickDickey> Morning (or evening) everyone.
<JimConnett> Ok, all, here we go! (first time chairing...give me a few seconds)...
<JimConnett> startmeeting Author's meeting 13.10
<JimConnett> DOH!
<jmarsden> Try #startmeeting
<jpickett> hash it
<hannie> forgot #
<JimConnett> #startmeeting Author's meeting 13.10
<meetingology> Meeting started Sat Jun 29 16:06:24 2013 UTC.  The chair is JimConnett. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<JimConnett> #chair JimConnett
<meetingology> Current chairs: JimConnett
<JimConnett> Welcome everyone...
<JimConnett> Let's take roll by stating what version you're here to support (ubuntu, lubuntu, other)
<JimConnett> ubuntu
<PatrickDickey> ubuntu and lubuntu
<CarstenG> Ubuntu
<jmarsden> Lubuntu
<jpickett> ubuntu
<hannie> ubuntu
<JimConnett> OK...
<jmarsden> phillw is marked away but is from Lubuntu
<jmarsden> As is JasonO
<JimConnett> #topic Review of current authors and openings for 13.10.
<JimConnett> As you probably have seen, we have good recommitment, a few new people, but some gaping holes.
<JimConnett> ...especially in the Desktop section...substantial changes in 13.10!
<jmarsden> JimConnett: Link to spreadsheet would be good?
<hannie> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApS28NMLnYJXdEdGQjRtUWtaOUZxREVzUldSOU5kc2c#gid=0
<jmarsden> Thanks!
<JimConnett> Is there anyone who can take on extra? Other thoughts?
<JimConnett> I used to do the desktop section, but with my new position, it may be a bit too much for me.
<PatrickDickey> Something I just noticed is that the people assigned to Chapters 6 and 7 are in the wrong places. You've got the people who are assigned to chapter 7 doing chapter 6, and vice versa.
<JimConnett> Thought I fixed that!
<JimConnett> you brought that up before, right?
<hannie> I have added a few sections to The Ubuntu Desktop chapter on spreadsheet
<JimConnett> Ok, PatrickDickey...fixed! Thanks.
<JimConnett> the desktop section worries me the most. I installed 13.10 in a VM last night and I'm not sure how much of the existing manual will transfer to 13.10
<PatrickDickey> No problem. :) And yes, I had more or less brought it up. Minor issue only, of course.
<hannie> I think the chapter needs a big overhaul
<JimConnett> Agreed, hannie
<PatrickDickey> A bit off-topic, how well does it (13.10) run in a VM? Is it stable enough to put on a physical machine yet?
 * PatrickDickey normally puts it on my laptop, and runs with it while I'm doing the manual.
<jmarsden> Can't speak to Ubuntu, but Lubuntu Alpha-1 runs fine in a VM
<hannie> Perhaps the autors of this chapter can contact each other and discuss what needs to be added/removed, replaced?
<JimConnett> It runs well...installation was a bit dicey when it rebooted after install...it got stuck in a shutdown state in my VM (VirtualBox). But other than that, seems good!
<hannie> Saucy alpha runs fine here
<JimConnett> Welcome teolemo__!
<CarstenG> I have saucy alpha on my laptop (no VM) and it runs good.
<JimConnett> Do we have any desktop authors with us today?
<CarstenG> But nobody knows, after the next update it can be defect, its an alpha :-)
<hannie> yes
<JimConnett> besides, you, hannie, of course! :)
<JimConnett> True, Carsten.  ...a risk we always run.
<hannie> and you :)
<JimConnett> So...let's coordinate offline, hannie, and get the authors communicating about changes/updates.
<hannie> JimConnett, ok
<hannie> but we do need more authors for The Ubuntu Desktop
 * jmarsden notes that the earliest parts of Working with Ubuntu also seem to lack authors, in the spreadsheet.  But they have editors... is that text sufficiently static that just having editors is workable for that part of the manual?
<hannie> Nowadays, the line between authors and editors becomes thinner
<JimConnett> #action Hannie and JimConnett will coordinate with authors early on with regards to the major differences we're seeing between 13.04 and 13.10 alpha1
<meetingology> ACTION: Hannie and JimConnett will coordinate with authors early on with regards to the major differences we're seeing between 13.04 and 13.10 alpha1
<hannie> due to the fact that most of the text has already been written but needs improvement
<JimConnett> We do need more desktop authors. I speak from experience...it's the most difficult section.
<hannie> wish they would stand in line to start contributing ;)
<JimConnett> #topic Recruitment
<JimConnett> Ideas on recruitment (for all parts of the manual?)
<JimConnett> I have access to the ubuntu manual twitter account.
<JimConnett> I've also updated the Meetings and Notes pages of wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual
<PatrickDickey> How many followers does it have?
<hannie> What exactly do you mean? Isn't the website enough?
<hannie> Getting involved
<JimConnett> checking followers....
<hannie> It is self-explanatory
<PatrickDickey> hannie, I think he means getting people to go to the site and join the manual.
<hannie> ah, ok
<JimConnett> Twitter followers = 3,825
 * PatrickDickey thinks Canonical could make finding the alpha releases a bit easier... On a side note, I hope the "Saucy Salmander Cafe" doesn't get upset that they have a distro named after them. ;-)
<JimConnett> the ubuntu-manual wiki was brought to current from its stasis since 2011ish.  Bad representation of an active project.
<JimConnett> The GetInvolved page on the wiki links to the manual's project page, so we're well covered.
<JimConnett> Other ideas?
<PatrickDickey> Is Kevin here or just in spirit?
<PatrickDickey> How about sending something to Full Circle Magazine (or maybe writing an article for them)?
<JimConnett> ...and we DO understand that recruitment is everyone's responsibility, not just mine and hannie's.....right!?
<JimConnett> Good idea! I've written for them in the past and have an email connection with Ronnie. I can own that.
<PatrickDickey> Yep, understood.
<JimConnett> #action JimConnett to contact FCM to get an article published about the manual project.
<meetingology> ACTION: JimConnett to contact FCM to get an article published about the manual project.
<jmarsden> JimConnett: Would a "classroom" session on getting started working on the Manual, held in IRC, be worth holding?  Maybe as part of one of the weeklong times where there is a lot of classroom activity trying to attract newcomers and train them?
<PatrickDickey> I'll spam my Facebook and twitter about getting involved.
<JimConnett> The only problem with FCM is they need a couple of months' lead time before the article is published...maybe too late this iteration, but I'll check.
<PatrickDickey> True, although some of the people might get in around the end of the author cycle. So it might still help out.
<JimConnett> msg jmarsden Possibly...I still think we have the barrier to conquer to simply get the word out.
<JimConnett> True, PatrickDickey...absolutely worth a try.
<jmarsden> OK.  Just having such a session would be a form of advertizing to people looking for a role in the Ubuntu community, is what I am thinking.
<jmarsden> It's too late for Ubuntu Open Week this cycle I think, but... might be worth it next time.
<JimConnett> True, jmarsden...AND...it would really cover both ubuntu and lubuntu
<PatrickDickey> If we're able to do it, I'd try to emphasize somehow that it's simple to do, and won't take up all of your available time. Just so people realize that it's not really a full-time job (unless you're the co-ordinator of course ;-) ).
<jmarsden> Maybe if some folks this cycle track the hours they spend and we document that in the spreadsheet, we'd have evidence of how big a committment it is?
<hannie> I led a session on how to become a translator in last years Open Week. There were hardly any visitors
<JimConnett> I think the communication campaign either implies or explicitly states a simplicity and organization in the project.
<JimConnett> Tracking hours is a great idea, jmarsden.
<JimConnett> Good diagnostic info, hannie.
<JimConnett> This is certainly not something we're going to solve today, but we absolutely need to be taking all opportunities to "advertise"...using personal social media, talking it up at meet-n-greets, etc.
<JimConnett> It's been a limiting issue for some time...fewer people to do the work means more work for everyone else. It would be great by the end of July if we had all sections populated with at least one author and one editor
<JimConnett> Other ideas/discussion, or shall we go to the next topic?
<hannie> I could ask on the ubuntu-translators mailing list. Translators are pretty active
 * jmarsden plans to mention Ubuntu Manual at my local LUG a week from today... small attendance but worth a try...
<PatrickDickey> I wonder if we could get ubottu (in #ubuntu) updated to add something like "While you're there, check out the Getting Involved section to see how you can help" for their entry on the Ubuntu Manual.
<JimConnett> Could you check into that, PatrickDicket?
<PatrickDickey> Sure. I'm not sure who to ask, but I'll ask around in there.
 * JimConnett is going to truncate PatrickDickey to PD.
 * PatrickDickey works for me
<JimConnett> Great, PD, thanks!
<jmarsden> PatrickDickey: phillw probably knows
<jmarsden> JimConnett: use the TAB key to autocomplete nicks, in most IRC clients
<JimConnett> #action PatrickDickey will contact utottu for an update to refence the manual project.
<meetingology> ACTION: PatrickDickey will contact utottu for an update to refence the manual project.
<JimConnett> OK...moving on...
<JimConnett> #topic Installation of software
<JimConnett> I posted a message last night regarding issues installing TexLive on 13.10 a1.
<jmarsden> The scripts are being continually improved and now seem to work on that platform :)
<jmarsden> My changes to install-pkgs.sh are currently committed in the Lubuntu branch only though.
<JimConnett> Any possibility of them being committed to Ubuntu?
<PatrickDickey> Did Kevin ever get back to you about whether the quality of the manual changes when you use the packaged versions?
<hannie> thanks to jmarsden  and godbyk the script is working well now
<jmarsden> Sure, I was trying to be deferential to Kevin and let him vet my changes for the Ubuntu Manual side of the project, but if the etam wants I'll happily merge them over there too.
<jmarsden> *team
<JimConnett> We have a great how-to on the website. I've followed it every time and this is the first time things were ever hosed.  So if we have independent confirmation that the install script works on Lubuntu and Ubuntu, that's great news!
<jmarsden> PatrickDickey: Not yet
<PatrickDickey> He probably decided that mysterious thing I've heard about (sleep) was more important. ;-)
<JimConnett> Has anyone else beside jmarsden had success installing TexLive on 13.10?
<JimConnett> I'll do mine (again) today and report on the list tonight.
 * JimConnett things sleep is overrated.
<jmarsden> Sounds good, I'll try to get the Ubuntu Manual copy of install-pkgs.sh updated at the end of this meeting.
<hannie> I am lazy and quite happy with TexLive 2012 :)
<jmarsden> hannie: Are you running it on Saucy ?
<hannie> no. raring
<jmarsden> OK, that's the real issue, in a sense... the packages for Saucy are TexLive 2013-based.
<hannie> Once you upload your script, I will install it in Saucy (VB)
<JimConnett> That's a thought i had, too...run TexLive on Raring on one VM and the Saucy OS on another...
<jmarsden> Good, thanks for testing it.
<JimConnett> probably better this way in case Saucy has to be reinstalled during alpha/beta releases.
 * PatrickDickey really doesn't know what sleep is... At least not more than five hours of it today
<JimConnett> My concern is that this is, yet, another barrier to participation that we need to remove. We want entry to be easy and as problem free as possible, so I very much appreciate godbyk's and jmarsden's work on the script.
<PatrickDickey> Typically I run TexLive (and do my author work) on the current stable version, and either test the new version in VB or on a different computer.
<JimConnett> ...and, dumb question, are we sure the install script is backward compatible to at least the last LTS?
<hannie> PatrickDickey, I do the same
<PatrickDickey> Should we emphasize on the Getting Involved page, that you only have to install TexLive the first time (and maybe occasionally upgrade it)? I think people are under the impression that you have to constantly reinstall it.
 * jmarsden now has TeX Live on multiple VMs of varying releases... I think I ran it on 1204 but not since the most recent set of changes I made.
<PatrickDickey> Or more generally, that you only have to do the majority of the steps there once (only bzr branch has to be done for each release).
 * JimConnett have always installed the pre-release OS on a new VM because of instability, so it's required me to reinstall TexLive each time.
<hannie> ok, but bzr branch is done in a jiffy
 * JimConnett is thinking a dual VM setup is best going forward.
<jmarsden> Right, it is all the Tex Live and font package downloads that take a while
<PatrickDickey> That's true. I'm just mentioning it, so potential authors know that they only have to do the steps once.
<JimConnett> Any other discussion/issues on installation?
<PatrickDickey> JimConnett: what do you run virtualbox on (os, I mean)?
<JimConnett> Ok...hearing no other discussion...
<JimConnett> #topic Communication/cooperation between authors and editors
<JimConnett> Hannie, you want to take this?
<hannie> ok
<hannie> I would like to see editors getting involved at an early stage (authoring stage)
<hannie> In this way, the author/editor pair can have close contact on what needs to be done for the chapter/section they ar working on
<hannie> Till now, the authoring and editoring stages were separated
<hannie> What do authors/editors present here think about this?
<jmarsden> Sounds good to me.  Maybe editors start that off with contact by email to their author by some specific date?
<PatrickDickey> I think it's a good idea. Especially if the authors are committing changes to their sections. The editors could skim over the changes, and let the authors know what needs to be fixed early on.
<hannie> I am afraid there are not many authors/editors present, so I suggest I use the ML instead
<PatrickDickey> Probably a good idea, hannie.
<hannie> JimConnett, I will send an email about this to our ML
<JimConnett> #action Hannie will send an email to the mailing list about author-editor contacts
<meetingology> ACTION: Hannie will send an email to the mailing list about author-editor contacts
<JimConnett> I plan to be on the authors quite consistently in August so that we try to avoid all the authoring the last few days before editors officially take over.
<hannie> good idea
<JimConnett> This has been one of the problems I've seen from the editing side of this project. Authors finish AFTER the due date, giving editors not a lot of time to do their work. It just creates a log-jam at the end which, IMHO, can be avoided.
<hannie> Although authors depend on the changes added to alpha or beta
<JimConnett> #action JimConnett to keep in contact with authors through the month of August to ensure authoring is on track and completed before the deadline.
<meetingology> ACTION: JimConnett to keep in contact with authors through the month of August to ensure authoring is on track and completed before the deadline.
<jmarsden> Would there be value in specifying some kind of "first draft deadline" for authors, so they have an earlier target date to shoot for?
<JimConnett> True, hannie...those changes have to be absorbed by the authors.
<hannie> the date has already been set in the schedule
<JimConnett> Of course, the most difficult section of the manual (desktop) is often the one with the most changes between alpha->beta->RC->Final Release
<hannie> Let's hope we get more authors for the Desktop chapter. I have added more sections to the spreadsheet, so
<hannie> people can take a small subsection to concentrate on
<JimConnett> I also see the spreadsheet has page numbers delineating the sections, now. This, of course, may change as authors add/delete/change content, right?
<JimConnett> Divide and conquer...I like it.
<hannie> yes, I need to update regularly
<JimConnett> Any other discussion/issues/concerns with author/editor coordination at this stage?
<hannie> So if you twitter, you can point out that even contributing for one page is possible
<JimConnett> Will do.
<JimConnett> CARSTEN!?
 * PatrickDickey pokes CarstenG 
<JimConnett> I wanted to just mention to him that screenshots will most likely need a major overhaul in 13.10 with a new UI/colors, etc.
 * godbyk yawns and stretches.
<godbyk> hey, guys. Sorry I'm late.
<hannie> hey godbyk good morning
<JimConnett> PLEASE don't say you're late because of a time conversion problem on my end of I'm REALLY going to feel bad!
<godbyk> I just finished catching up on the meeting logs.
<godbyk> JimConnett: Nope!  Just slept late. :)
<JimConnett> Ok...no other discussion?
<CarstenG> Yes?
<CarstenG> Here I'm.
<JimConnett> Read a few lines up.  Welcome back! :)
<hannie> JimConnett, all screenshots will be renewed for every version
<PatrickDickey> Hi godbyk.
<CarstenG> What's the question to me?
<JimConnett> None, just that the UI is different in 13.10, but hannie just informed me that all screenshots are redone with each manual, so...no question/issue.
<CarstenG> ah, now I see.
<CarstenG> Yes, you are right.
<JimConnett> #topic Open Q/A
<JimConnett> Ok...so I'll open up the floor for any other questions regarding the manual at this alpha 1 stage.
<PatrickDickey> Question for godbyk. Are we still working on the improved website, or has that project fallen by the wayside?
<hannie> JimConnett, I just want to say you did very well. Thank you for being chair
<godbyk> PatrickDickey: I haven't heard anything from anyone about the improved website in ages, so it seems that everyone has lost interest for the moment.
<JimConnett> From my perspective, the website is good contextually...always has the information I think it needs. Maybe a UI update/refresh is in order?
<godbyk> PatrickDickey: I'd still like to see an updated website, however. I wouldn't think it'd be too difficult to find a willing web developer, but perhaps they're rarer than I think.
<PatrickDickey> godbyk: I think we were waiting on paddy to do the translations, or you to do some scripts. I'm not sure though.
<CarstenG> Should we open a web pad where we can write down any thoughts about changed things in Saucy?
<godbyk> PatrickDickey: I think paddy was to work on some scripts to help with the translations, yeah.
<hannie> godbyk, Paddy was working on the website, but we haven't heard from him for a long time. I could contact him to see if he is still interested
<CarstenG> Yes, an update of the translation of the Website would be very good.
<godbyk> hannie: That'd be great. Thanks!
<godbyk> CarstenG: I agree.  I'd like a newer website that's easier to maintain.
<PatrickDickey> hannie if he's not, we could probably just look at what we've changed, and see if it can be translated using the old system.
<JimConnett> #action godbyk will contact Paddy to ascertain his ongoing interest in updating the website
<meetingology> ACTION: godbyk will contact Paddy to ascertain his ongoing interest in updating the website
<godbyk> Right now I hand-edit everything. But I don't know how to update the translation template file.So the translations are more and more out of date. (It's not the fault of the translators.)
<hannie> PatrickDickey, I will let you know if paddy is still interested
<PatrickDickey> For anyone not familiar, we were trying to migrate over to a WordPress site instead of the current (Django, I think) framework.
<godbyk> Our current framework isn't even Django. It's a custom framework.
 * PatrickDickey ok, the "mutt" framework then. ;-)
<godbyk> PatrickDickey: An Adnane framework. :)
<hannie> Haven't heard from adnane for ages
<godbyk> In any case, I do think there are plenty of improvements we could make to our website -- for both the webmasters and the visitors.
<JimConnett> Anyone...I know we've discussed the specific milestone dates for the authors/editors in the past (via email/mail-list, etc). Are these published anywhere? If so can someone post a link now so that it's in our notes for this meeting?
<hannie> launchpad.net I guess
<CarstenG> Kevin, isn't there a command like Â»make ubuntu-website.potÂ« in this Adnane framework?
<hannie> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual
<godbyk> CarstenG: There is I'm sure, but I don't know what it is.
 * godbyk is on the phone. I'll be right back.
<JimConnett> Thanks, hannie.
<jmarsden> #link https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual
<JimConnett> Any questions from the Lubuntu perspective?
<jmarsden> Not really, I'd hoped phillw would be here in person not just in spirit... We seem to have a proofreader Anne D who is listed as editor for all sections of the manual, I'm wondering if that is wise or too much for one person...
<PatrickDickey> I know the milestones were in an email. It should be on the ML archives.
<JimConnett> It's a big manual, and that's a lot to proof (not only copy-edit), but verify key/mouse actions listed.
<hannie> Well, that depends on how much time this person is willint to spend on editing
<hannie> *willing
<JimConnett> Only you will know the capabilities of your proofer.
<jmarsden> OK... I don't know the person concerned... I'll try to find out more :)
<JimConnett> SOP says it's better to have more than one proofer, but at these early stages, maybe this is enough.
<hannie> Milestones Saucy: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/saucy
<JimConnett> The Lubuntu wiki for the manual looks good. You guys are going a great job in getting the Lubuntu project off the ground.
<jmarsden> Thanks!
<JimConnett> ...not to mention the complementary benefit's the UMP has seen with better scripts, etc.
<JimConnett> One thing I DON'T see right now...
<JimConnett> ...is a lot of cross-project pollination taking place like we thought it would (an author doing BOTH projects, not just one or the other).  Curious.
<jmarsden> Yes, people may be wary of taking on too much this first time around... maybe for 14.04 we'll see more of that?
<PatrickDickey> Well I can say in my case, I chose to do both projects because 1) I run Lubuntu as my main desktop and 2) I wanted to see a manual created.
<jmarsden> Way to go!  But I think so far you are the only one doing that.
<JimConnett> My guess, jmarsden, is probably not (present company excluded, of course)
<PatrickDickey> Well, I chose to do it, because I had a crappy video card in a crappy computer. And I blamed Ubuntu for the issues, so I switched to Lubuntu. ;)
<JimConnett> The differences between Ubuntu and Lubuntu from the user's perspective are quite substantial, so what is written for Ubuntu doesn't translate to Lubuntu very easily.
<hannie> I think it was never intended that way, but of course it would be great if people contribute to both UMP and LMP
 * PatrickDickey points and says "I'm talking to YOU, POS e-machines sitting in the corner..."
<JimConnett> This is true, hannie, and if I get mistreated an an author's coordinator, I have another place to go!
<JimConnett> ONLY kidding, folks!
 * jmarsden might take a look over the hardware and preferences chapter with a view to both manuals... but no promises
<hannie> look who is here, welcome, phillw
<jmarsden> Hi phillw aka phillw1 .  Anything specific you want to ask about for the Lubuntu Manual ?  We're in "Any Other Business"...
<JimConnett> That would be great, jmarsen...and if you could post to the ML a synopsis of what you found (a 'brief' summary), that would be great as well. It might encourage some cross-author/editor work.
<jmarsden> JimConnett: OK, that makes sense.
<hannie> I have to go. Thank you all for being here. See you.
 * godbyk is back now. Reading backlogs...
<JimConnett> Thanks for joining us hannie. Enjoy.
<jmarsden> Is present company in effect "the core" of the Ubuntu Manual team?  Are we missing any "major players" today?
<godbyk> I think most of the 'major players' are here today, jmarsden.
<jmarsden> OK, that's what I suspected.  Thanks.
<JimConnett> Essentially,  yes. I would also consider those who've been with the UMP for more than a couple of iterations also part of the core.
<JimConnett> Any other input/feedback/questions/topics/issues/comments/perspectives?
<PatrickDickey> Nothing from me.
<JimConnett> Hearing none, I'm going to end the meeting. Feel free to hang out and chat. Thanks for everyone's participation. We'll plan to have another meeting at the later part of July. I'll use doodle to schedule that one as well.
<JimConnett> Awesome to participate in this project with you all. Enjoy the weekend!
<PatrickDickey> I'll try to make the next meeting also. It all depends on work and sleep.
<JimConnett> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Sat Jun 29 17:35:24 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-manual/2013/ubuntu-manual.2013-06-29-16.06.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-manual/2013/ubuntu-manual.2013-06-29-16.06.html
<phillw1> sorry jmarsden and others, forgot about the meeting :(
<jmarsden> phillw1: No problem... anything specific you wanted to ask or comment if you had remembered it in time?
<jmarsden> Are you comfortable with the amount of work Anne D is taking on by being listed as editor for every part of the Lubuntu Manual?
<phillw1> mainly just to ask how progress with the script you wrote has come along. I've just re-installed my system and will be running it soon :)
<PatrickDickey> godbyk: Sometime this weekend (probably tonight), I'll go through and compare the latest version of the current site with our wordpress site. And I'll update the new site.
<jmarsden> phillw1: It works on Saucy Alpha-1 as of last night late... I need to merge my changes into the UMP branch as well as the Lubuntu branch.
<godbyk> PatrickDickey: Okay.
<phillw1> jmarsden: I'm pretty full on with testing, I will of course help out where I can. Glad to hear it works on Saucy A1 as that is what I installed this morning :)
<jmarsden> phillw1: Great.  Good timing that I fixed it last night then!
<phillw1> I'd had it fighting between virtualbox and kvm (as usual), but could not them both to behave :/
<PatrickDickey> Just posting this to get it in the channel logs. How to edit the factoid on Ubottu. PatrickDickey: You can join #ubuntu-ops and fire the following: !factoid is <reply> New text for "factoid" It will submit an edit request, that they'll have to approve.
<jmarsden> phillw1: On a different topic, if you have feedback on my VBox classroom session and its wiki page, let me know.  Seems like I "spoke" far more words in my hour than you did in the equivalent KVM hour, so maybe I crammed too much in?
<phillw1> jmarsden: I had 'issues', I had to ssh into my server to get the steps up as KVM on my local machine decided not to play :/
<jmarsden> OK.  I looked at doing it using lernid so web pages show up automatically for folks using that client, but decided I didn't want to learn lernid that fast just before giving the class... have you tried using lernid ?
<phillw1> not yet. I'm still getting my head around some of the sessions on QA (the one chilicuil did takes a bit of getting through!).
<jmarsden> On bzr?  I remember thinking I should read its logs, but have not done so yet :)
<phillw1> I was feeding the dogs and seeing my parents off for the weekend. it was on pbuilder, the bzr one is yet to come :)
<phillw1> pbuilder was a late addition, but it was an excellent session from whom I understand to be an MOTU
<jmarsden> OK.  pbuilder I use "all the time" but will take a look.  I have scripts that create and build packages in N pbuilders overnight for releasing some packages for lucid, precice, quantal, raring and Debian wheezy and jessie ... :)
<CarstenG> godbyk: How is the status of the manual in the Software Center?
<CarstenG> I only see 12.10...
<godbyk> CarstenG: They're supposed to be working on a new process for us to get free software (and PDFs) into the Software Center.
<godbyk> So for the time being I've stopped submitting our manual through the current process as it takes so long to show up.
<godbyk> A workaround that we can consider is to create our own packages and a PPA.
<CarstenG> Ok.
<CarstenG> Well, if Â»theyÂ« (who are they?) create a new system for PDFs than we don't need a PPA...
<godbyk> CarstenG: True. But I'm not sure how long it'll take them to get the new system in place. I'll have to check in and see what their progress is.
<CarstenG> Can we follow this development somewhere on LP?
<godbyk> CarstenG: Not that I'm aware of. There may be a blueprint, I suppose. I've only discovered it through various wiki pages and a couple of Jono's blog posts.
<JimConnett> Alright, guys...I'm outta here. Thanks again. Be talking to you soon, I'm sure.
<PatrickDickey> I have to say the download for saucy is unofficially the slowest thing I've done in a while. I've still got about three hours left, and I started it during the meeting. Of course, I'm downloading both the 32 and 64 bit isos.
