#ubuntu-uk 2011-06-27
<sprite> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6Sonvibgoc
<Azelphur> My servers are officially averaging 1 hit every 10 seconds \o/
<shauno> that doesn't sound too bad?
<Azelphur> shauno: indeed, it's awesome :D
<shauno> fantastic traffic as far as your adsense goes, but nowhere near painful :)
<Azelphur> indeed :p
<AlanBell> morning all
<gord> someone has made a website that streams in the latest ubuntu bugs, that is terrifying in ways i can't describe
<DJones> Morning
<hoover_> morning
<nigelb> gord: Its paultag, but how is it terrifying? We already have had an IRC channel that does it for the longest time
<popey> PHEW! It's a scortcher!
<popey> gord: http://pault.ag:8080/firehose.html ?
<gord> popey, yup
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning peeps
<popey> lo
<dogmatic69> o/
<diplo> morning all
<hoover_> mornin
<bigcalm> Morning peeps :)
<popey> lo bigcalm
<dogmatic69> sup bigcalm
<danfish> hello hello
<danfish> a dilemma - do I turn the aircon on? (it's ancient and very noisy, so can't hear what people say)
<tsimpson> didn't you have it on yesterday?
 * dogmatic69 quickly dies of heat
<danfish> tsimpson: wasn't in work yesterday
 * danfish throws a bucket of ice over dogmatic69 
<tsimpson> at work? turn it on, the fact that it drowns other people out is only a positive :)
<AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/1032/detail/
<MartijnVdS> \o/
 * MartijnVdS clicks "Attend"
<danfish> AlanBell: what sort of age group is this expo for? Is 4 too young?
<AlanBell> you are never too young for science fiction
<MartijnVdS> danfish: http://bl.uk/sciencefiction
<AlanBell> I am quite impressed by the bl.uk domain
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: It's one of the oldest .uk domains
<MartijnVdS> However, some domains delegated before the creation of Nominet UK remain. Examples include mod.uk (Ministry of Defence), parliament.uk (Parliament), bl.uk and british-library.uk (the British Library), nls.uk (the National Library of Scotland), nhs.uk (The National Health Service), and jet.uk (UKAEA as operator of the Joint European Torus experimental fusion tokamak).
<MartijnVdS> </wikipedia>
<AlanBell> jet is awesome, went there on a school trip
 * MartijnVdS went to the BL last year, when they had the "Beauty of Maps" exhibition
<MooDoo> morning all
<popey> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> that was quick popey :)
<em> morning
<MooDoo> good weekend everyone?
<bigcalm> I'm melting
<MooDoo> bigcalm, thank goodness for air con
<bigcalm> I guess I should go and set mine up
<MooDoo> everyone have a good weekend?
<MooDoo> i didn't realise we have localised loco teams for the uk.
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<directhex> MooDoo, someone needs to patch the os to say "spiffing!" at random points!"
<MooDoo> brobostigon, hello
<directhex> without uk localization, who would do it?
<MooDoo> directhex, i meant do we have nottingham loco or birmingham loco, or even north east loco.......just read something that confused me
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo and directhex
<MartijnVdS> poco loco?
<AlanBell> MooDoo: yeah, surprised me too a bit :)
<AlanBell> there are regional/city based locos in various places in the US
<AlanBell> and we have ubuntu-cym as a kind of sub-team for wales and the welsh translation
<MooDoo> AlanBell, yeah that's what confused me as we don't have that over here
<directhex> i guess the birmingham loco translates ubuntu to brummie
<MooDoo> i though local loco's were call lugs :)
<AlanBell> yeah, but it is all good
<MooDoo> of course, was just confused, thought there was something new i didn'tknow about :)
<MooDoo> morning s-fox how are you this fine day?
<s-fox> Good afternoon MooDoo
<s-fox> I am a little sun burned, but okay.
<s-fox> How are you MooDoo ?
<MooDoo> s-fox, yeah very good thanks,i put sun cream on :p
<s-fox> Good to hear you are okay.  I did put cream on,  obviously not enough. I did a 10 mile run yesterday. lol
<MooDoo> s-fox, 10 miles? are you mad?  lol i have two speeds, slow and stop :)
<s-fox> Haha
<s-fox> That is a little like chuck norris.  2 speeds - walk and kill
<MooDoo> s-fox, you can't find chuck norris, he finds you
<s-fox> Not mad.  I like running, it keeps me in good shape
<MooDoo> s-fox, cool :)
<s-fox> Did you do anything fun over the weekend MooDoo  ?
<mac_nibblet> Heya anyone here good at iptables?
<MooDoo> s-fox, yeah spent the weekend in Bakewell derbyshire, got some good photos
<s-fox> Sorry mac_nibblet ,  this is the best guide i know of though - http://bodhizazen.net/Tutorials/iptables
<mac_nibblet> s-fox: thanks ill read it
<s-fox> MooDoo,  That is about 70 miles from here
<s-fox> :D
<MooDoo> s-fox, next time i'm up there i'll give you a buzz
<s-fox> k
<MooDoo> s-fox, don't know how, but i'll just use my psychotic ability ;)
<s-fox> i'll be listening
<s-fox> :)
<MooDoo> s-fox, hear that?
<MooDoo> lol
<s-fox> MooDoo,  Yes, I take my tea black. Thanks
<s-fox> :)
<MooDoo> s-fox, you got it :)   and oi you behave ;) lol
<s-fox> lol
<MooDoo> lol
<MooDoo> damn it's sunny
<brobostigon> any good documents on setting up ssh tunnels?
<BigRedS> they're not particularly complex in themselves, so most howtos should do
<BigRedS> http://www.revsys.com/writings/quicktips/ssh-tunnel.html ?
<brobostigon> ok, thank you BigRedS
<MooDoo> blimey, almost lunch
<mac_nibblet> s-fox i cant get this dam thing to work
<mac_nibblet> i want to portforward port 80 from our linux server to my workstation
<mac_nibblet> but all im getting is connection refused
<JGJones> A question - in your opinion, what's the best twitter client? I still can't bring myself to like gwibber.
<MartijnVdS> there isn't a "best" one :)
<MartijnVdS> just one  you like the most
 * MartijnVdS uses the website and the official android app
 * brobostigon uses the website, gwibber, and android mustard.
<directhex> i use tweetdeck
 * BigRedS uses Net::Twitter::Lite :)
<BigRedS> and, more frequently now the website
<brobostigon> the website is soslow though, it takkes ages to load, and slow in scrollling, and elemnt interaction, this is in chromium. so i would rather use a different client.
<JGJones> I know there's no "best" but wanted to know what other flavours are available in Linux :) I don't really want to use TweetDeck
<JGJones> Not much point in doing so since Adobe Air isn't being developed for Linux anymore.
<brobostigon> also, there is bitlbee's twitter/identica plugin.
<directhex> smuxi!
<brobostigon> no smuxi android frontend, it seems.
<andylockran> howdy all
<daubers> lo
<JGJones> Trying out Hotot
<andylockran> I'm playing with glusterFS today.
<Safiyyah> ali1234: Azelphur  I  got a system crash again! But this time it isn't recovering. So I ran the disk checking tool from Samsung and it returned an error
<Safiyyah> I checked Samsung's website and, you basically self-diagnose, get a returns number and ship it to them, they test it and replace it. All of which will take 3 weeks or so
<Safiyyah> is there no way or getting a cash refund from these companies?
<JGJones> Safiyyah, not really - you didn't buy it directly from them - you can get it from the supplier (subject to T&C's) though.
<Safiyyah> i got it from Amazon on the 31st of March, is it them I chase?
<AlanBell> glad I am not in London today, it is rather warmish
<jpds> AlanBell: All is well over here.
<directhex> AlanBell,  i put my aircon on for luck. it's not all that hot tbh, but i keep reading about hot people
<daubers> Glad we get the keys to our new office shortly, aircon ftw \o/
<AlanBell> I am inappropriately dressed, or would be if I was in an office
<daubers> Pyjamas?
 * daubers needs a robot to go configure some servers while he sleeps
<diplo> Started raining here :(
<daubers> I want rain :(
<MooDoo> i want beer
<directhex> i want candy
<diplo> Short sharp shower it seems, was fairly heavy but just grey again
<diplo> And stonking hot still :)
<andylockran> diplo: where are ye?
<MooDoo> diplo, to hot :(
<diplo> Near Bath
<BigRedS> heh. thunderbird is being hilarious with its text wrapping today
<czajkowski> eh no popey tis the end of the world
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell, daubers: I will bring stroopwafels to the SciFi thing :)
<MattJ> stroopwafels \o/
<AlanBell> nom
<MooDoo> never heard of them :)
<daubers> MartijnVdS: \o/
<BigRedS> the 'events' page on the uuk website still only lists christmas 2010
<BigRedS> well, events category
<Azelphur> omg, it's 35c in my room lol
<Azelphur> set up the AC in my gpu cluster room, nearly got heat stroke in the process \o/
<jpds> Azelphur: Or put another way, room temperature.
<Azelphur> room temperature isn't 35c :o
<BigRedS> it is in that room
<Azelphur> true xD
<hamitron> :D
<Azelphur> I've got 1 AC, a swamp cooler and a desk fan running on this floor at the moment lol
<Azelphur> and I'm generating about 2kw of heat from hardware \o/
<Azelphur> hottest day of the year + 2kw of heat = fun
<jpds> Ah, body temperature is 37*C.
<AlanBell> BigRedS: yes, fair point
<BigRedS> ah yeah, I should probably have directed that at someone :)
<andylockran> Azelphur: this for your bitcoin stuff?
<andylockran> value recovered?
<Azelphur> yep
<Azelphur> andylockran: I have about Â£2.7k's worth but a lot of that is still in bitcoins
<andylockran> http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/onepercent/2011/06/bitcoin-value-plummets-as-main.html
<Azelphur> I'm waiting for a high price to come along
<Azelphur> old news is old, all transactions was reversed
<Azelphur> https://www.mtgox.com/ have a look at the new chart
<BigRedS> is mtgox still the only real exchange?
<popey> no
<popey> britcoin
<Azelphur> tradehill
<Azelphur> http://bitcoincharts.com
<BigRedS> yeah, I know there are more, but i thought mtgox had something daft like 90% of all transactions
<AlanBell> Azelphur: you got Â£2.7k from farming?
<AlanBell> or mining or whatever it is
<Azelphur> AlanBell: yea but like half of that is still in bit/namecoins
<bigcalm> How much did you spend on the hardware?
<Azelphur> Â£2000
<bigcalm> And how much is the electricity costing?
<Azelphur> like Â£100 a month I think
<bigcalm> I hope it's worth it :)
<Azelphur> I only pay 6.8p/kwh
<Azelphur> and it pulls 1776KW constant
<Laney> heh
<Laney> await the knock at the door from the drug squad
<Azelphur> my brother went and reported it to the police haha
<czajkowski> popey: yay popey back
<Azelphur> 06/25/11     25.55 GiB |  112.20 GiB |  137.75 GiB |   13.37 Mbit/s
<Azelphur> leet server is leet \o/
<Safiyyah> western digital HDD have good online reviews, perhaps that is what I should buy
<directhex> are WD greens the ones that stop spinning every 5 seconds?
<Safiyyah> directhex:  i was thinking of getting the black
<Safiyyah> because they have a 5 year warranty
<directhex> i like spinpoints, personally, as far as spinning rust goes
<Safiyyah> which means nothing other than hopefully its better quality/longer life
<Safiyyah> my only concern is long life
<Safiyyah> it can be slow
<directhex> on that front, honestly: there's not much in it, in a well-ventillated system. some drives will just blow. they're mechanical, mechanics sometimes fail
<Safiyyah> so it's my fault I have a well ventilated machine?
<Safiyyah> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> I've used Samsung Spinpoints for years and (touch-wood) they have been very reliable and quiet. Shame they just got sold off IMHO
<directhex> some drives will tend to run hotter, so suffer more in hot systems
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, que?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Wne to Seagate
<TheOpenSourcerer> went
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, que? i see nothing on samsung's press site about that
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/366886/seagate-buys-samsungs-hard-drives-for-1-4bn
<directhex> !!! :(
<TheOpenSourcerer> Indeed.
<directhex> everyone sucks, then. invest in SSD!
<Safiyyah> no money for SSD
<Safiyyah> it's like 200 quid for no space
<Safiyyah> is anyone running SSD?
<popey> yes
<popey> my desktop has two 120GB SSDs
<popey> and I have a 120GB in my laptop
<popey> "no space", delete all the crap or move it off onto other spinning rust disks
<hamitron> "how do you decide what to delete?" ;/
<Safiyyah> lol budget does not extend beyond 100 quid
<Safiyyah> 100 quid won't buy me 120gb
<hamitron> 60Gb is plenty
<hamitron> for the average user anyway
<hamitron> :)
<Safiyyah> rofl
<Safiyyah> yeah. load virtual box and all the space goes to zilch
 * hamitron has 7 x 1Tb disks
<jpds> < ~hamitron> 60Gb is plenty
<jpds> ~hamitron has 7 x 1Tb disks
<jpds> OK.
<Safiyyah> hamitron i would hate to see your backup procedure
<Laney> I got over hoarding a while ago
<hamitron> Safiyyah: I hate to see the lack of it ;)
<Laney> (besides the music collection)
<brobostigon> afternoonings all.
<hamitron> jpds: 60Gb is plenty, most my machines only have 80Gb or less
<Safiyyah> popey: so you are suggesting I buy SSD, and use my current faulty HDD to store stuff (well after it comes back from samsung warranty?)
<Safiyyah> it is a good suggestion actually
<hamitron> sounds good :)
<hamitron> and then buy another hdd to backup the hdd
<hamitron> ;)
<popey> dont forget to backup the ssd
<popey> I'm not suggesting you do anything Safiyyah
<popey> just saying what I do
<Safiyyah> popey i am asking for you opinion
<popey> I have no idea what your requirements are
<Azelphur> 37 degrees in my bedroom now \o/
<hamitron> Azelphur: wtf you doing?
<Azelphur> nothing :(
<Azelphur> I have the window open and a swamp cooler running
<hamitron> is your comp still overclocked?
<hamitron> and you should turn off some screens
<jpds> You have a cooler on, while having the window open?
<hamitron> ;)
<daubers> Azelphur: 1776KW???? Surely you mean 1776W?
<Azelphur> I do indeed
<daubers> 1776KW is like running 200 electric showers constantly!
<Azelphur> haha
<hamitron> I need 200 electric showers atm :/
<MartijnVdS> eclectic showers
<TheOpenSourcerer> Sounds quite promising: http://www.guardian.co.uk/government-computing-network/2011/jun/27/liam-maxwell-appointed-director-of-ict-futures
<AlanBell> yay, it has been announced now :)
<Safiyyah> sorry the phone went
<Safiyyah> popey:requirements, stable HDD, I have suffered from dead HDD to often
<Safiyyah> i dont game
<Azelphur> Safiyyah: back again with hdd problems? :(
<Safiyyah> yes Azelphur  it finally died
<shauno> I dunno what you're all complaining about .. a lovely 14Âº here :)
<Azelphur> Safiyyah: :(
<Safiyyah> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/222310
<Safiyyah> how about this one guys?
<Azelphur> Safiyyah: western digital are what I usually buy for reliability :P
<Safiyyah> Popey sais something that got my brain ticking
<Azelphur> http://www.ebuyer.com/search?page=1&sort=pricelow&limit=10&q=western+digital&filtermfr=15 shiny list :p
<Safiyyah> I should get an SSD, then use the normal HDD for further storage... usually just media, but my main data source etc would be stable
<Azelphur> yea, I very nearly recommended that
<Azelphur> SSDs are more reliable and faster
<jpds> Safiyyah: SSD drives can die too.
<Azelphur> ^ that too though
<jpds> I know someone who had 3 fail in about 3 months.
<Safiyyah> jpds:  raining  on my parade.... OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<Safiyyah> 3 months?????????
<popey> i know someone who has never had an ssd fail
<jpds> Safiyyah: No, that's just British weather.
<popey> you're not going to base your purchasing decisions on either one of those statements are you?
<Safiyyah> so there is no solution, it's the luck of the draw?
<directhex> Safiyyah, yes, it's luck - assuming good ventillation
<popey> they are devics
<popey> devices fail
<directhex> hot hard drives die, regardless of brand
<shauno> mechanical devices especially so
<Safiyyah> directhex, we said my HDD drives died of too good ventilation
<Safiyyah> :P
<Safiyyah> popey you guys know more than I do, so I didnt come here to debate HDD.... came ask seriously
<popey> i understand that
<popey> maybe do a bit of research, dunno
 * hamitron goes with lots of mechanical hdd
<Safiyyah> hamitron, yeah with 7tb i have nothing today
<hamitron> loads of storage space, and you can afford more drives for the same money :)
<Safiyyah> 500gb is more than plenty for me!
<directhex> get a nice affordable 960gb pcie ssd
<hamitron> well, it allows backup
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> haha directhex
<Azelphur> Safiyyah: you don't need to pay Â£80 for a 500GB drive that's crazy
<hamitron> Â£30
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> well, maybe Â£35
<hamitron> but around there
<popey> its not a standard 500G drive
<hamitron> oh, the hybrid one?
<popey> ya
<Safiyyah> i dont actually get hybrid
<Safiyyah> so basically is it more reliable?
<popey> Safiyyah: i am currently in the process of wiping some disks
<popey> I will happily send you one for nothing
<popey> 250G any good to you?
<Safiyyah> sure, are you serious?
<popey> yes
<Safiyyah> I would really appreciate it
<popey> pm me your address and I'll try to get to the post office tomorrow
<popey> i was going to put them on freecycle
<Safiyyah> lol
<Safiyyah> 250 old school HDD might be more stable than this new ish
<popey> oh hang on
<popey> SATA or PATA?
<Safiyyah> SATA is what I have
<popey> ok, i only have 200G SATA
<popey> or 250G PATA
<Safiyyah> I have never used PATA, don't know what it is
<popey> IDE
<popey> the older interface with 40 pins
<popey> Parallel ATA as opposed to Serial ATA
<Safiyyah> my motherboard doesn't even have an IDE pin
<Safiyyah> from what I remember
<popey> ok, so is 200G any good to you?
<Safiyyah> yes thanks
<popey> ok
<Safiyyah> send them both
<popey> will package up and post tomorrow if I can find a box
<Safiyyah> it really is becoming a case of old is better
<popey> hah
<hamitron> it certainly is
<hamitron> :)
<popey> this comes with no guarantee :D
<Safiyyah> none of my IDE (PATA HDD ever died
<hamitron> popey: you can offer a full refund though?
<hamitron> ;)
<popey> hah
<Safiyyah> lol
<Safiyyah> I guess I will eagerly await the parcel on wed or Thursday then
<shauno> I've had plenty of ide drives die.  drives simply split into two camps.  those that have failed, and those that are going to
<Safiyyah> I really appreciate it truely
<hamitron> I have a 80Mb IDE drive that works 24/7, still strong
<hamitron> :)
<Safiyyah> yeah am regretting giving away my old IDEs
<hamitron> well, I say strong.... I mean works
<Safiyyah> but popey will revive that now
<hamitron> ;/
<shauno> heh.  I had an 80Mb that failed.  bummed me out, because I could only afford to replace it with 40 at the time
<hamitron> :\
<Safiyyah> So shauno, you bought 40 and when you got money you bought another new one?
<shauno> nah, it stayed like that till I got my next machine
<shauno> that was my first linux box tho :)  32Mb root, 4.5Mb swap :)
<hamitron> those were teh days :)
<hamitron> when things were fun
<shauno> pft.  that was never fun
<hamitron> :-o
<Safiyyah> this hybrid sure looks interesting
<hamitron> I've heard mixed views on that hybrid
<hamitron> personally, I don't consider SSD old enough tech for me to get
<hamitron> :)
<popey> i love my ssds
<popey> not sure I'd go back to HDD in laptops/desktops
<shauno> heh, ditto
<hamitron> you look at the prices, and they are falling each month so much
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> I admit they are better ofc
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> I like to argue, but can't arguement against their performance
<hamitron> ;/
<shauno> it'd be fun to setup a business to market to hamilton
<hamitron> argue even
<popey> shauno: a business in the past?
<shauno> buy in ssds, stick them in a shoebox under my desk until they're dusty, and then he'll buy 'em :)
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> so long as the value drops 99%, sure
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> I can place some pre-orders now if that is the case
<Safiyyah> popey what have SSDs given you personally that you are hooked
<popey> speed
<hamitron> can I just ask.... what uses that speed?
<MartijnVdS> They gave you amphetamines (speed)?
<popey> anything that does IO
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: starting programs, browser cache(!)
<popey> s/anything/everything
<hamitron> so Â£100 to save a few ms?
<shauno> I was amazed how much difference it makes.  my laptop goes from powered off to running firefox, quicker than my work laptop can launch firefox at all
 * MartijnVdS is considering an SSD for his new machine.. next year when Ivy Bridge is out
<popey> hamitron: no
<popey> if it were a few ms then that would be insane
<hamitron> would it not be more cost effective to just have more RAM, then cache the regular stuff?
<popey> no
<popey> plus this machine is full of RAM
<popey> can't get any more in it
<hamitron> :/
<popey> 8GB on laptop, 8GB in desktop
<popey> 3GB in other laptop which can't take anymore
<MartijnVdS> popey: you rich man you :)
<Safiyyah> sorry so popey, can i ask ..... on a ubuntu user who have documents, pics, video and virtual box as the main bloaters (me)
<Safiyyah> I am seriously thinking an SSD for root and home and then bang all the media on the ones you send me
<popey> s/ones/one/
<shauno> that's pretty much what I do
<popey> yup, same here
<hamitron> I do too
<hamitron> :)
<directhex> i will do it when someone mails me a couple of hundred quid and i buy myself an ssd
<hamitron> apart from I am cheap and have a 80Gb hdd (non-SSD)
<hamitron> ;)
<shauno> music on an ssd is a waste of money, as long as they come off the disk in less than the 3-5 minutes it takes to play them, I won't notice.
<Safiyyah> hamitron i work on my PC, the irregularity with crashes recently has disrupted my work heavily
<Safiyyah> even though money is tight
<Safiyyah> I need to consider a small SSD
<Safiyyah> (which might still fail) but better op of not it seems
<hamitron> and regular backups
<hamitron> ;)
<Safiyyah> i do back up
<hamitron> :/
<Safiyyah> I haven't lost any data
<hamitron> good :D
<Safiyyah> just lost a working system
<MartijnVdS> you will eventually, if you don't do backups
<directhex> backups are for scared little children
<hamitron> haha directhex
<directhex> real grown-ups just nfs-export /, and then the cloud magically backs up their data!
<MartijnVdS> directhex: I like being a scare little kid then.
<Safiyyah> backups are for people with important info on their HDD
 * hamitron is a scared little child who has already lost a lot of stuff
<Safiyyah> maybe you only have games!
<directhex> let my data BURN
<hamitron> games are important
<hamitron> :/
<Safiyyah> sorry to ask a silly question
 * hamitron opens games more than work files
<Safiyyah> but how to SSDs connect to the motherboard.... are they SATA?
<hamitron> most are, yes
<popey> yes
<MartijnVdS> some are PCIE
<hamitron> yep
 * hamitron wants a USB 3.0 one
<Safiyyah> which company, Kingston, Crucial,  OCZ or Corsair?
<hamitron> depends what special offers they have on
<hamitron> ;)
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: none are better/worse than others?
 * MartijnVdS doesn't trust "OCZ".. they market to overclockers :)
<popey> yes, they differ wildly
<popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/237098
<popey> i have two of those in my desktop
<hamitron> they are the sort I'd get
<popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/239663
<popey> and one of those in my minecraft server laptop :D
<MartijnVdS> popey: anything special for your FS? Does linux do "TRIM" automagically?
<popey> I have just got a default install
<hamitron> popey: your minecraft server has a better drive than any of my comps
<hamitron> :D
<popey> hah
<hamitron> I guess I can conclude I don't invest heavily in storage
<MartijnVdS> popey: did you add "discard" to the mount options in /etc/fstab?
<hamitron> ;/
<popey> no
<MartijnVdS> popey: if you add that, the kernel will notify the SSD that parts are unused and can be reclaimed/used in load balancing
<MartijnVdS> (wear leveling)
<popey> nice
<MartijnVdS> popey: see the mount(8) manpage
<hamitron> ouuuu http://www.ebuyer.com/product/268239
<MartijnVdS> popey: you can add it to the default mount options using tune2fs -o
 * hamitron cracks open his piggy bank
<Safiyyah> this is the best deal i have found http://www.ebuyer.com/product/225415
<popey> cannot believe how hard it is to get new ram into an eee 1008HA
<popey> you have to practically dismantle the entire laptop
<directhex> popey, i had trouble likle that dismantling wifey's acer aspire one
<directhex> broke it on the way, sadly
<popey> oops
<popey> I think I am gonna skip this
<popey> its bonkers
<popey> Safiyyah: looks like a nice deal
<hamitron> or this http://www.ebuyer.com/product/261846
<czajkowski> http://twitpic.com/5hqeos
<czajkowski> wow
<hamitron> but I dunno which is better
<hamitron> ;)
<popey> look at the read / write iops
<popey> czajkowski: london in "is busy" non-shocker :D
<MartijnVdS> popey: not access time?
<czajkowski> popey: trains not working
<czajkowski> shocker IN HEAT
<czajkowski> or SNOW
<popey> MartijnVdS: that too
<czajkowski> or RAIN
<czajkowski> or LEAVES
<czajkowski> when do they exactly work ?
<czajkowski> :)
<Safiyyah> SATA III would require new SATA cables or new motherboard I take it
 * popey packs czajkowski back on a plane to dublin
<czajkowski> popey: monday week
<MartijnVdS> Safiyyah: or a plug-in sata card (pcie)
<directhex> Safiyyah, both!
<czajkowski> may not come back wish will be granted then
<popey> hah
<directhex> Safiyyah, although you can use a sata3 drive on sata2, in slow-speed mode
<hamitron> czajkowski: it is only "the wrong type of rain" ;/
<Safiyyah> something about that picture, you can almost smell the heat and sweat
<hamitron> how long will a SSD live?
<hamitron> typically I mean
<directhex> hamitron, "some years".
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: if you enable the "discard" option, it should be "long enough"
<directhex> hamitron, depends on how much you use it, basically
<hamitron> say 10 writes per day
<hamitron> ;)
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: that's not a lot
<hamitron> ok :)
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: as one sector write is 2kb :)
<MartijnVdS> so.. 20kb?
<hamitron> MartijnVdS: I was meaning 10 writes on the same part of the disk
<Safiyyah> do you have  buy a bracket to help it hold in a PC case?
<MartijnVdS> Safiyyah: no they come in standard 3.5 and 2.5" sizes
<MartijnVdS> Safiyyah: if you want to mount a 2.5" disk in a 3.5" case, you need an adapter brakcet
<directhex> Safiyyah, an ssd? if you have no 2.5" mounts, and buy a 25" drive, then yes
<MartijnVdS> but most PC stores have adapter brackets
<popey> all my SSDs came with brackets
<MartijnVdS> even better!
<Safiyyah> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004APRLTY/sr=8-15/qid=1309196378/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me=&qid=1309196378&sr=8-15&seller=
<Safiyyah> did you buy from ebuyer popey?
<popey> yes
<hamitron> that kingston is slow :/
<hamitron> by SSD standards
<MartijnVdS> SATA3 is backwards compatible
<MartijnVdS> you can attach sata3 devices to a sata1/2 bus and it'll work
<hamitron> Safiyyah: I tend to place 6-8 orders per month from ebuyer.com
<MartijnVdS> not at top speed, but it'll work
<directhex> popey, wifey's one didn't. packaging was barely bigger than a blu-ray case
<hamitron> just dunno if it is worth getting SATA600 over SATA300 :/
<popey> heh
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: for SSD it is
<Safiyyah> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/225804 is this good?
<hamitron> MartijnVdS: even if a comp only has sata300?
<popey> can you get sata600 pcie cards?
<Safiyyah> or stick to the curcica?
<Safiyyah> corsair* i mean
<hamitron> popey: yes, need a PCIe 4x slot I believe
<popey> golly
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: yes, you'll just use sata300 speed
<Safiyyah> how can the SATA III be slower to write? I don't get it http://www.ebuyer.com/product/225804
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: if you later upgrade to sata600 on both controller and device (and cable) you'll get the faster speed
<directhex> Safiyyah, it's not. it's a coincidence, because they changed the memory chips they use
<hamitron> MartijnVdS: but I mean, when i get another device, may want a new drive? ;)
<Safiyyah> okay which do I buy this: http://www.ebuyer.com/product/225804 or this: http://www.ebuyer.com/product/261846
<hamitron> I'd have to get this one: http://www.ebuyer.com/product/268239
<Safiyyah> final 2
<Safiyyah> :)
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: sure, but you can upgrade parts separately
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: is what I'm trying to say
<hamitron> Safiyyah: out of them 2, I'd get the Corsair
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: Arrr! :)
<hamitron> :D
<MartijnVdS> "I'd get me the corsair, matey! Arrr!"
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> Safiyyah: but maybe worth an extra 15 quid to get sata3?
<Safiyyah> hamitron am still a girl who gets confused
<Safiyyah> not for 15 quid
<hamitron> 50% increase in speed if you put it in a new comp
<MartijnVdS> Safiyyah: nothing to do with being a girl, afaik
<Safiyyah> MartijnVdS:  I meant I had brought the list down to 2 and he added a third one - still a girl with that
<Safiyyah> dont confuse the girl!
<Safiyyah> lol
<MartijnVdS> OK :)
<hamitron> I suppose there is something else to consider.....
<MartijnVdS> Now I'm looking at computer parts again.. I promised myself I wouldn't until Ivy Bridge got released
<MartijnVdS> :|
<Safiyyah> wth is Ivy Bridge?
<hamitron> do the SSD with slower write speeds, last longer?
<MartijnVdS> Safiyyah: it's the next generation of Intel CPU/GPUs
<Safiyyah> hamitron v good question!
<Safiyyah> no more pentiums?
<Safiyyah> wow!
<MartijnVdS> Safiyyah: Supposed to come out Q1 2012
<Safiyyah> well I will probably get one 2 years after it comes out
<MartijnVdS> Safiyyah: well, they'll still be called "i3", "i5", "i7" etc. probably, like Sandy Bridge is now
<Safiyyah> so let me know how fanstastic they are
<hamitron> Safiyyah: and you can let me know after you got one
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> once they're down to Â£20
<Safiyyah> Sandy bridge... listen, the only processors I know are Intel Quads, Celerons and Am... I cant remember the other one
<Safiyyah> lol
<Safiyyah> hamitron lololololol
<hamitron> anyways, I think I have a plate of food with my name on it
<hamitron> so bbl
<hamitron> :)
 * hamitron won over
<Safiyyah> hamitron you just had to go and confused me! arrgghhhh
<MartijnVdS> Safiyyah: Sandy Bridge = this year's set, IB = Next year's set :)
<hamitron> sorry, I ask too many questions
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> o/
<MartijnVdS> Safiyyah: these are the generation after "Core 2 Duo" which you might have heard of
<MartijnVdS> Safiyyah: </boring> :)
<Safiyyah> lol MartijnVdS  so how many name brand clothes are in your wardrobe? OR you only spend money on PC parts
<Safiyyah> maybe the car too....
<Safiyyah> I have a duo core
<Safiyyah> so Sandy Bridge is a Quad Core?
<MartijnVdS> Safiyyah: good points... :)
<MartijnVdS> Safiyyah: often, but not always -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Bridge
<MartijnVdS> Safiyyah: some are 6-core, and the low-end (cheap) models 2-core
<Safiyyah> okay so you have a 6 core?
<Safiyyah> and is the best company still intel?
<MartijnVdS> Safiyyah: no, I have last year's cheap model, dual-core i3
<MartijnVdS> Safiyyah: imho, intel is still the best. AMD is currently in "follow Intel" mode :(
<Safiyyah> rofl I think my processor is the same age as my daughter
<Safiyyah> lol
<MartijnVdS> I liked it when they were really head to head
<Safiyyah> I build a new machine and just transfer it over
<Safiyyah> I have changed my boards, CD drives and RAM
<Safiyyah> same processor
<Safiyyah> and even then I changed them because they had died, the only nonessential was I had to have the thermostat case
<MartijnVdS> thermostat case? automatic fan controllers etc.?
<Safiyyah> http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/
<Safiyyah> thermals take
<Safiyyah> yeah better circulation more fans, easier to clean, less dust, easier to clean dust out especially without opening it
<MartijnVdS> sounds like a bunch of good ideas
<Safiyyah> http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/Products.aspx?C=1314
<Safiyyah> I went for the Saprano range, got it for #40-45 quid about a year and a few months ago
<MartijnVdS> "The Sopranos" 8-)
 * MartijnVdS has a .. Gigabyte something-or-other case
<MartijnVdS> don't know really
<Safiyyah> the whole thing is just more dust free, easier to clean the dust offm and the front comes off so you can hoover it without opening the case
<Safiyyah> so I can just do it when I am cleaning the rest of the house
<Safiyyah> thhat why we were joking that my HDD are dying from excellent circulation
<MartijnVdS> It's TOO CLEAN
<MartijnVdS> it can't handle it!
<Safiyyah> ROFL
<shauno> hm, Azelphur went quiet.  he didn't spend too long in his server closet did he?
<Azelphur> still alive
<Azelphur> that AC is kickass I must say, it's brought the room temp right down
<Azelphur> my bedroom is way hotter than the server room now
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: have fun sleeping later ...
<Azelphur> indeed :(
<shauno> shaun's guide to heat waves; turn the cluster off, and bring the AC into your room :)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: !language :P
<Safiyyah> okay i ordered the HDD, on priority mail, am broke but more days am out of work more days am not making money
<MartijnVdS> Safiyyah: uhrm.. aren't there more important things than new hard disks? :)
<Safiyyah> lol well when your home comp is your source of income and it is dead
<Safiyyah> it can become a priority
<Safiyyah> lol
<MartijnVdS> OK, agreed :)
<Safiyyah> I am going to watch the prime ministers questions,
<Safiyyah> thank you for helping me get a SSD today
<Safiyyah> and thanxs again popey
<daubers1> Evening
<MartijnVdS> windaub: how's your experiment progressing?
<windaub> MartijnVdS: Starting to get in my way a bit now :(
<MartijnVdS> windaub: what day are you on?
<windaub> .... 18 I think
<windaub> Something around that
<MartijnVdS> "I paid good money for that windows license, I'm going to use it!"
<windaub> Luckily, it doesn't stop the ice cream maker working \o/
<MartijnVdS> \o/ ice cream
<MartijnVdS> Looks like we're getting a 200 discharges/5 minutes thunderstorm tomorrow
<MartijnVdS> :\
<StevenR> ok. So,... I'd like my laptop to link to various calendars and pop up reminders. I'd like to have something just start when I log in, and sit in the tray or notification area. At this stage, I don't want email as well
<StevenR> (calendars include various ones linked to my gmail, and ideally work's outlook calendar too)
<MartijnVdS> StevenR: configure it in Evolution, you don't have to configure its email bits
<StevenR> MartijnVdS: can it hide off in the background?
<MartijnVdS> StevenR: yes, and it integrates with the clock
<StevenR> MartijnVdS: hmmm. how do I make it sync with outlook (I've only got OWA at home)
<StevenR> and it's OWA 2010 at that :S
<MartijnVdS> as long as it's >'07 it's good
<MartijnVdS> evolution-exchange is the package you want
<MartijnVdS> You can add a new account from the preferences screen I think?
<StevenR> The server is running Exchange 5.5. Exchange Connector
<StevenR> supports Microsoft Exchange 2000 and 2003 only.
<MartijnVdS> I have no idea about versions
<MartijnVdS> except that we have '07 at work and it works fine
<MartijnVdS> (for MS versions of "fine")
<StevenR> MartijnVdS: is that via mapi?
<MartijnVdS> I have no idea, sorry. I just used evolution-exchange and put in the https:// URL to OWA
<MartijnVdS> the rest was automagic
<StevenR> ok
<StevenR> MartijnVdS: what release? (lucid? natty?)
<MartijnVdS> natty
<MartijnVdS> or did I just put in the OWA server name and it detected https? could also be that.
<MartijnVdS> something like that anyway
<StevenR> MartijnVdS: hmm. still doesn't seem to work. I'll keep it in mind when I update this laptop to natty. Thanks :)
<shauno> I appear to be missing something here.  http://www.onlylinuxgames.com/onlive/
<shauno> short version: the first line is "Requires: VMWare 7.1.3 & copy of Windows 7"
<shauno> by that measure, we sure do have a lot of linux games :)
<dwatkins> heh
<directhex> onlive takes that further, given you aren't even playing games with it
<directhex> the games run remotely, you're just running a video client & input relay
<shauno> funky
<andylockran> howdy all
<BigRedS> good morning!
<andylockran> BigRedS: what's new?
<BigRedS> andylockran: I'm flitting between about six or seven projects, I've no idea what's going on :)
<BigRedS> you?
 * AlanBell is liking the Ubuntu mono font
 * popey wonders what other tests to perform on this MeeNee laptop
<hamitron> popey: minecraft?
<popey> ooo, good call
<BigRedS> haha
<ali1234> does online have a free demo section?
<ali1234> *onlive
<ali1234> are they even in the UK yet?
<dimas_> i am using ubuntu 11.04 and i am reading some instructions to configure my user account but i dont know how....the instructions says this: lets make sure your user account has audio group membership. You can do this in the Ubuntu System menu by selecting Users and Groups from the Administration menu and clicking the Manage Groups button. Choose audio and make sure the check-box is selected.
<AlanBell> dimas_: what problem are you trying to solve?
<popey> http://idjc.sourceforge.net/install_first_run.html
<popey> probably
<dimas_> connect a streamer application to  a jack (sound system)
<ali1234> dimas_: canonical decided to remove that menu cos it's too complicated
<ali1234> dimas_: instead you should click on the dash and then type in "users and groups" and then you will get the same thing
<ali1234> dimas_: don't ask me how you're supposed to figure that out if you don't already know, though
<hamitron> ali1234: now now, there is technically nothing there to confuse the user ;)
<dimas_> click on the dash?
<ali1234> it's that thing in the top left hand corner
<brobostigon> dimas_: the thingie in the top right hand corner.
<ali1234> LEFT
<popey> thats not the dash
<brobostigon> let*
<brobostigon> left*
<popey> thats the BFB
<popey> the big f button
<ali1234> what is the dash then?
<popey> the thing that appears
<popey> after you press the button
 * hamitron points
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> totally not confusing at all, right guys? right?
 * popey shrugs
<ali1234> btw what does BAMF stand for in the context of unity?
<popey> "press the button in the corner"
<ali1234> i keep seeing it everywhere on packages
<popey> is what I would have said
<hamitron> in all seriousness, I am not confused ;)
<popey> anyway.
<hamitron> too hot :/
<andylockran> :)
<andylockran> I'm toasty :)
<hamitron> when will the tornado hit to cool me down?
<popey> hamitron: it runs minecraft
<hamitron> :/
<popey> slowly
<popey> 3fps
<hamitron> popey: next test, run bitcoin miner alongside it
<hamitron> run for 3 hours
<hamitron> and see if it still lives
<hamitron> you must also stand it on the crown jewels throughout this test, to ensure heat is not a problem
<hamitron> \o/
<popey> bless
<popey> Atom N455
<hamitron> thorough testing
<hamitron> :D
<hamitron> or thrashing
<popey> chaps
<popey> CSD T56SY320
<popey> thats not a hard disk is it?
<popey> i am only finding lots of stuff in chinese
<popey> is it some kind of flash drive
<jpds> Thank you Google Translate.
 * Azelphur just tried a cool wikihow tip
<Azelphur> soak tshirt in cold water > wear tshirt > sit in front of desk fan > you are now cold. \o/
<bigcalm> Just how sweating works
<brobostigon> quite bigcalm :)
<shauno> wet t-shirts smell better tho :)
<Azelphur> haha
<czajkowski> *sigh(
<czajkowski> evening
<shauno> howdy
<bigcalm> Hi czajkowski
<czajkowski> bigcalm: hi
<bigcalm> What's causing the sigh tonight?
<czajkowski> reading material
<bigcalm> You shouldn't be sighing with oggcamp so close at hand :D
<czajkowski> http://www.spine-health.com/treatment/back-surgery/lumbar-decompression-back-surgery
<bigcalm> :(
<dwatkins> czajkowski: eek, I've just been looking up information about my back problems
<andylockran> guys - it's legal to use any XP iso isn't it - providing you have a correct product key?
<andylockran> need to reinstall a client's PC.. but they came with no install media.
<zleap> hmm
<andylockran> and I change jobs at the end of the week so not got time left to request a CD from MS.
<zleap> don't you have to make your own these days
<Azelphur> andylockran: I'm not sure, I think in America it's a DMCA violation
<andylockran> ah, ok.
<shauno> andylockran: I believe it's kosher, as long as it's the right one (eg, pro, home, blah blah blah)
<shauno> you buy a license, not a chunk of plastic
<andylockran> kewl. ok - cheers guys
<shauno> (with the usual disclaimers, not a lawyer, etc :)
<czajkowski> popey: ROFLOL!!!!
<popey> ?
<czajkowski> popey: comment on ml
<popey> oh â¹
<czajkowski> given who lives on the island
<czajkowski> not sure folks get the difference in LUGS, LoCos and language teams though
<popey> what difference?
<czajkowski> their purpose
<czajkowski> ok reading back material is scaring me
<czajkowski> so not reading any more before tomorrow
<popey> How to LUGs and LoCos differ in their purpose (aside from being specific to one distro)?
<czajkowski> that's a big difference at least IMO
<czajkowski> a lug prmotes lots of stuff
<czajkowski> locos specifically only Ubuntu and focuses more on a community
<czajkowski> again just mo
<popey> I said _aside_ from locos being specific to ubuntu?
<popey> I dont see that much difference
<andylockran> talking shops. :p
<andylockran> and a place for flamers :)
<andylockran> and /me - offering self-perpetuating analysis
<andylockran>  /join #echo-chamber
<czajkowski> popey: I find mannerisms very different
<czajkowski> popey: locos more welcoming and open to helping more say for example on irc
<popey> ah thats people
<czajkowski> lugs tend to be a bit more crude, and some are not
<popey> yeah, I agree
<popey> but thats almost certainly 98% due to the code of conduct
<czajkowski> yes which I think is a great thing
<popey> not that its a stick to bash people with
<czajkowski> also people in locos tend not to flame as much (depends on lists)
<popey> just that it makes people realise that their doofish behaviour is unwanted
<popey> hahahaha
<popey> O RLY
<czajkowski> lugs tend to derail and go mine is better than yours syndrome
<popey> Ok, I see where you're coming from
<czajkowski> I said depends on lists!
<czajkowski> I find locos more focused and willing to help new users which is great and why I got involved in Ubuntu over other distros
<popey> My point was more that if ubuntu got _so_ big that the UK team (lets take uk only here) was so overpopulated we needed a better way to manage it
<czajkowski> for me thats what made the difference
<czajkowski> popey: indeed
<popey> i would think that a county or city level loco within the loco would suit
<popey> and I dont think we're far from that now
<popey> i.e. I think I could muster 10-20 people in the farnborough/aldershot/farnham area alone to come to an ubuntu event
<czajkowski> indeed as long as those countys/citys don't go down a lug route
<popey> and thats just 2 towns
<czajkowski> as in 15 members 2 ubuntu if you get me
<popey> no, I am not suggesting that
<czajkowski> perhaps it's me not being clear which tends to happen when I talk to you :(
<popey> I am specifically saying people who are already in the loco
<popey> no, we're talking at different purposes
<popey> forget lugs
<popey> forget they exist
<czajkowski> ok
<popey> just think about locos
<popey> think about the number of people and how to manage that number as it gets bigger
<popey> they're still "Ubuntu" people
<popey> but they might want something more local
 * popey shrugs
<popey> dunno
<czajkowski> nope all valid points
<czajkowski> we had to do similar back home, it's unfortunate it only really works well in dublin and to a smaller but still to some degree in the other 3 cities, if only 5 people turn up there we're happy
<popey> yeah, you need critical mass
<czajkowski> but we got the college students and hacker spaces involved but we will never ever go down the road of a dublin limierkck cork  loco
<czajkowski> just wouldnt work out
<shauno> I was gonna say, we make a great comparison.  not so many people go from galway/limerick/cork to a dublin meet
<AlanBell> local events all over the place should work fine
<czajkowski> for a small country we do pretty well imo, yes a lot of stuff happens in dublin, mainly as most it jobs as there but also more people willing to meet up, limerick events are happening but also depend on college but the hacker space there has helped as has Galways
<AlanBell> in terms of sub-teams the whole southwest thing doesn't make sense, however there is a much stronger argument in favour of wales as a team
<shauno> galway's hackerspace is homeless now.  and the galway lug died a silent death a while back
 * BigRedS grumbles about devolution :)
 * popey grumbles about people wanting fifedoms
<czajkowski> shauno: how did the galway hackerspace become homeless
<czajkowski> never knew there was a lug it's always been ILUG and CLUG
<shauno> my understanding was that they were in a commercial space that was being rented on very favorable terms until a 'real tennant' came along
<czajkowski> ahh ok
<czajkowski> shauno:  we do a lot considering our size tbh https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrishTeam/IrishTeamReApprovalApplication  that's just in the past 2 years.
<shauno> so while it was a fantastic space, it had that hanging over their head since day 1.  and the inevitable came
<czajkowski> but they never had a plan B
<czajkowski> :(
<czajkowski> shame
<shauno> they're still going.  they're just homeless.  so while there's still very regular meetups, they've lost something very valuable.  hackerspace with no space :/
<czajkowski> nods
<czajkowski> taken milklabs a while to find a home
<czajkowski> and they've been working on it wow almost a year
<shauno> I can see a valid use for hyper-local groups tho.  it'd be interesting to see if anyone can manage it without fragmentation
<shauno> eg, having meetups in cork makes a lot of sense to them.  having a cork loco, not so much.  I think locos just need to recognise that not everyone lives in dublin/london/etc and make that effort
<AlanBell> so I tried contacting the computing societies of oxford, cambridge and a couple of london universities telling them I had free CDs to give them
<AlanBell> no reply
<AlanBell> and I am staggered by the number of universities I found with no computing society at all
<czajkowski> AlanBell: aye we work directly with the student, over here most colleges have clubs and socs, and a few haev computer socs, UL Skynet where I'm from DCU redbrick and so forth, we mail them and ask them do they want some and we either send them or they get collected
<czajkowski> AlanBell: most of the college student servers in skynet run Ubuntu :D
<AlanBell> yeah, cambridge uses ubuntu apparently
<czajkowski> AlanBell: worked well then when we wanted to have talks.
<czajkowski> they provided the venue and we sorted the talks
<AlanBell> would love to do that
<brobostigon> good night, sleep well everyone,
<AlanBell> I spent a few hours last week going through university websites trying to find computer society contact details
<AlanBell> most of them seem to be non-existent or abandoned
<czajkowski> hard to know really
<czajkowski> works well for 1 team may not work well for another
<hamitron> considering universities are for studying, a lot there are lazy bastards ;/
<hamitron> people
<shauno> had to explain to HazRPG what the old grey whistle test was :/  thanks for making me feel old man
<AlanBell> http://www.upsu.net/activities/societies/atoz computer games, but not computers
<AlanBell> I am doing something wrong
<AlanBell> I pick a uni, go to the student union thing, find the list of societies, fail to find anything relevant
<AlanBell> I can't even find an iPad owners club or some such
<czajkowski> AlanBell: maybe they dont one
<czajkowski> not all the unis here do
<AlanBell> there are a few like this http://users.cs.cf.ac.uk/CSS/v3/home.php looks great, but all dated 2005
<shauno> perhaps they simply don't exist anymore?  most the people at uni now likely grew up with a computer.  it's not something special anymore
<AlanBell> I am coming to that conclusion
<shauno> I mean, if you're 20 now, windows 95 came out before you started school.  xp was before secondary school.
<czajkowski> we developed this http://www.clubsandsocs.ul.ie/
<shauno> the generation that grew up tinkering with bbc's and the 16bit micros have grey hair already
<popey> Oi!
 * popey sadly resembles that
<popey> Oh oh! Must tell you
<popey> I put a printer on freecycle today
<popey> Guy turns up, grey long beard, sandles, dodgy t-shirt
<popey> loaded printer into his car
<popey> him: "So what do you do?"
<popey> me: "Oh, IT Nerd, Linux, Ubuntu, that kind of thing"
<popey> him: "Ah yes, Ubuntu. I picked up a CD from a computer fair in bracknell recently"
<popey> (that would be from Alan Cocks âº
<popey> He's looking for a PHP developer to help him make some whacky website
<popey> started telling me how you can run ubuntu inside windows. it was fascinating :D
<czajkowski> hah deadly
<czajkowski> :)
<czajkowski> that's kinda cool
<gord> everyone on irish tv is angry at each other about banks or something, so instead i'm watching batman!
<shauno> heh.  if you were paying rediculous taxes to pay for a housing boom that burst before you even got here, you'd be angry at banks too.  but hey, batman \o/
<gord> maybe ireland should do what batman does and punch people until the problem goes away
<shauno> irish tv is the #1 reason I got cable :/
<hamitron> I thought Ireland had low taxes?
<hamitron> or is it just corperation tax?
<shauno> the corporation tax is low.  which is lovely if you're a company.  does the rest of us not a jot of good
<hamitron> what is the basic rate of tax?
<hamitron> :/
<shauno> well, it helps bring jobs & such. but it does my pay cheque not much good :)
<hamitron> yeh
<shauno> I tihnk it's somewhere roughly 20% income, and 21% vat
<shauno> but they keep inventing new 'fees' and 'levies' that sit beside income tax as seperate beasties now
<hamitron> similar to the UK then
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> I swear they are all as bad as each other
<shauno> the most I've paid on one pay cheque was 47% :(
<hamitron> Mr Taxman (in whatever country), gets ya!
<hamitron> :(
<popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2011-June/247020.html
<popey> wonder if I'll get a kicking for that
<hamitron> haha
<shauno> heh, nice photochop
<hamitron> still loading
<popey> i actually held the stickers up to my screen
<hamitron> :/
<popey> and took a photo with my phone
<popey> and discovered a bug in ubuntu whilst I was at it
<popey> everyone wins!
<shauno> really?  that came out better than I'd have expected :)
<popey> iphone :D
<hamitron> have cananananical given up on geeks now?
<popey> Yes
<popey> The want to put them all in a field and set fire to them.
<popey> or something
<hamitron> I shall use that as an excuse for "acting" stupid then
<hamitron> ;/
<Laney> that'll be why the last few UDS hotels have mysteriously burned down
<popey> haha
<popey> was dave there?
<popey> did he have his magic tabacco?
<popey> By the way, my cat likes to tweet
<hamitron> imo, they should sell ubuntu LTS in 1 packs, with stickers and goodies for Â£10
<directhex> :O
<hamitron> :D
<popey> http://twitter.com/#!/salempope
<directhex> just read on engadget about a usb thumbdrive with a full-blown Sandforce SSD controller in it
 * hamitron has no stickers
<shauno> I used to get case badges from linuxemporium when I got my discs :)
<hamitron> I'm always worried I'll just get a cdr
<hamitron> I like pressed disks
<hamitron> :)
<shauno> I think they may have been cdr (with labels) at the time.  but when woody came on 14 disks, and I was on dialup, it was worth the money
<hamitron> and glossy boxes
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> I used to buy disks from there
<hamitron> but ubuntu ship-it sorta made me want nice disks
<shauno> you're spoilt now :p
<hamitron> I am a child that was given sweets, and they've been snatched off me
<shauno> ps: http://shop.canonical.com/index.php?cPath=17
<hamitron> and I feel like crying ;/
<hamitron> omg, no 10.04 disks?
<shauno> *thunk*
<shauno> newflash man.  it's 2011 :p
<hamitron> LTS are loads better
<hamitron> got longer support
<hamitron> ;)
<shauno> odd, they have 10.04 server & kubuntu, but not desktop. makes me wonder if they simply sold 'em all ( / gave them all away)
<hamitron> yeh
<popey> run out I guess
<hamitron> but they still only sell packs of 5
<hamitron> if they sold me 1, with a bunch of goodie for the same price, I'd get it
<hamitron> :)
<shauno> you want a bunch of goodies for a fiver?
<hamitron> just a pin badge or something
<hamitron> :/
<czajkowski> popey: nice stickers, did you get the rest of them in the booklets I left you to give away
#ubuntu-uk 2011-06-28
<hamitron> shauno: I'd be getting 4 less cd
<popey> now, where are those booklets!
<popey> good question!
<hamitron> shauno: I guess no goodies, but a range of version cd would be better
<czajkowski> and you can give the bag to whoever wants it
<shauno> surprised they don't sell any of the books.  my head wants to think they'd make a decent bundle pack thingie
<hamitron> 32/64bit, live+alt cd
<czajkowski> popey: thank you for storing the stuff never said thanks! my manner!
<hamitron> 4 cd in 1 pack = win
<shauno> I think coming as a bunch of options would ruin the "this is easy" thing they're trying to sell
<czajkowski> I'll bring you back an irish breakie roll,
 * popey wanders off to look for things
<hamitron> shauno: make it "collectors edition for geek"
<shauno> heh, the store say they're not shipping natty until early may.  I wonder how often they update those =x
<hamitron> in a tin box
<hamitron> \o/
<shauno> hm, reminds me, I meant to take another bash at grub-efi and try writing some of it down this time
<hamitron> oh
<hamitron> http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=765
<hamitron> they do offer it
<hamitron> just not the version I want
<hamitron> :/
<shauno> you mean they don't still sell 8.06?  *gasp*
<hamitron> be nice to have 32+64 bit as well
<shauno> or is that too new :p
<hamitron> I only want the latest LTS
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> *latest*
<hamitron> ;p
<hamitron> cutting edge me
<hamitron> ;)
<shauno> lol
<shauno> I'm just hoping ubuntu gets over it's ugly teenage years before the next lts.  else I'm likely back to debian :/
<BigRedS> wait, you use debian and regard ubuntu as ugly?
<hamitron> I'm giving it real consideration, packing my own stuff
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> if I choose everything myself, I have nobody to moan at
<BigRedS> ah, lfs!
<hamitron> I'd certainly use lfs for reference
<hamitron> :)
<shauno> BigRedS: I more mean as an awkward stage it's going thru, more than actual aesthetics
<BigRedS> Ah, we're back to me being an edge-case :)
<hamitron> kinda like MS with Windows Vista? ;)
<BigRedS> not really, it's only aesthetic here
<BigRedS> and it's optional, just default
<BigRedS> more like 2k to XP from a UI perspective
<hamitron> that too
<BigRedS> ish. I wasn't very aware of that one :)
<hamitron> I jumped from windows 2000 to windows 7
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> I really found the UI a huge leap
<hamitron> still feel lost tbh
<BigRedS> I find 7 way easier than XP
<BigRedS> I think. I don't do very much with 7
<hamitron> I just don't do much
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> not finding anything easy
<hamitron> LXDE is pretty good
<hamitron> but that is just 1 thing
<BigRedS> I got annoyed with lxde and went back to just editing the files myself...
<BigRedS> it felt so thrown together
<hamitron> you use something like fluxbox?
<BigRedS> not at the minute, but lxde's just openbox
<hamitron> I've found lxde to just work
<hamitron> so not really given it much thought
<hamitron> :)
<BigRedS> and I keep going back to *box and then get bored of making it work how I want it to and going back to gnome :)
<hamitron> Gnome kills my machines
<BigRedS> ah yeah. New laptops rock :)
<hamitron> I can run Gnome fine, but lack memory for firefox
<hamitron> so lxde just gives me a little more free memory, so I am not "as short"
<hamitron> still short ofc ;/
<BigRedS> ah yeah. XFCE's not the lightweight gnome it used to be, either :(
<hamitron> nope
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> fluxbox is good for sure
<shauno> when you start using stuff like firefox & OOo, worrying about how much ram your DE uses becomes fairly pointless
<hamitron> but I don't want to have to tweak something
<hamitron> shauno: just firefox
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> firefox runs fine on 512Mb RAM, if there isn't much else there
<hamitron> and I don't go crazy on tabs
<hamitron> I do curse firefox too though, but gotta have a web browser
<hamitron> I value the application more than the DE
<BigRedS> Mm, firefox does seem to do alright on low memory, it just does use a bunch if it's available
 * BigRedS notices the time
<BigRedS> sleepytime I think... night all!
<hamitron> nn BR
<shauno> was just thinking about the time too.  just finished dinner & I'm still starving.  I shouldn't have waited until everything was closed :/
<hamitron> :/
<BigRedS> hah, yeah, I keep making that mistake. Cannot get used to things closing in the countryside, having grown up in London
<Azelphur> is there any way to use ffmpeg to amplify the volume on a video?
<hamitron> Azelphur: there will be
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1153179.html
<Azelphur> fun
<shauno> good lord.  running VMs off the ssd is blistering.  me likey!
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> I want 4Gb of my RAM back :/
<hamitron> lent it to a temp rig for bitcoin mining
<shauno> heh.  one born every minute ;)
<hamitron> I could put up with it before this heat
<hamitron> but now I'm just getting impatient
<popey> hah
<popey> right, stuff this! bed
<popey> nn chaps
<shauno> what's responsible for the bubble notification things top-right?
<shauno> or more importantly, how do I make them stop
<popey> ask ali1234
<popey> he's the expert and making them FOAD
<popey> nn
<shauno> ali1234: help!  I have fire.  I want to burn them.  where do I aim?
<shauno> is there any way to dismiss them atleast? they disappear if I go near them.  but come back again :/
<ali1234> bubble notifications?
<ali1234> shauno: you mean the notify-osd?
<shauno> yeah.  popups top-right that tell me downloads have finished & such
<shauno> I can't decide whether they're too different to what I'm used to.  or if they really are as idiotic as they feel
<ali1234> dunno how to get rid of them
<ali1234> i don't see them very often due to a bug in unity
<ali1234> which renders them outside the visible screen area
<shauno> I'm just using classic.  it has a few things irk me, but unity has few things that don't
<ali1234> well bug is probably in libnofity or compiz actually
<shauno> well that was easier than I expected.  found /usr/lib/notify-osd/notify-osd, chmod 000 & kill it
<shauno> I really don't like that there's no way to dismiss them.  I'd rather not get messages at all, than have them behave that daft
<AlanBell> morning all
<daubers> Morning
<AlanBell> http://bugs.developers.facebook.net/show_bug.cgi?id=18701 wow
<lubotu3`> bugs.developers.facebook.net bug 18701 in General "Application 107648075065 disappeared" [-,New]
<AlanBell> facebook delete the photos of all kde users
<DJones> AlanBell: I saw that mentioned on twitter last night
<ali1234> not just kde users
<ali1234> they've autobanned a large number of apps
<MartijnVdS> spammy apps, I  guess?
<ali1234> http://forum.developers.facebook.net/viewtopic.php?pid=355340#p355340
<DJones> http://bit.ly/mTy5fZ
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: it depends on your perspective
<ali1234> what seems to have happened is as follows:
<ali1234> users use a perfectly legit app to upload their photos
<MartijnVdS> their "friends" mark those apps as spammy
<ali1234> then they post them on their wall and their friends wall
<ali1234> then the friends mark it as spam
<MartijnVdS> then the app gets banned
<ali1234> so all the users of the app review it highly
<ali1234> and everyone else hates it
<ali1234> this is of course completely unfixable for facebook
<ali1234> it's a fundamental reason why i don't use the site
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: unless they also add "More of this!" in addition to "Spammy"
<MartijnVdS> there is always a way
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> that won't help
<ali1234> people will still click "spam" on everything they don't like
<ali1234> what they should actually do instead of blocking the app
<ali1234> is suggest you unfriend the person who uses it
<ali1234> but of course if they do that rapidly everyone will have no friends
<ali1234> and the site will implode
<MartijnVdS> There are 2 options.. "Block" and "Mark as spam"
<ali1234> but there you go
<MartijnVdS> (as in "Don't allow this app to post on my wall")
<ali1234> yes, that's what they are no wusing as feedback
<ali1234> if you block an app that is "bad user feedback" and it's why the apps have been banned
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: then what is "Mark as spam"?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: (a separate option!)
<ali1234> i suspect most people just click them both
<ali1234> i know i do
<MartijnVdS> spam implies block
<ali1234> well there you go then
<ali1234> when twitter started sending me suggestions in tweets the first thing i did was report the user for spamming
<ali1234> i didn't even realise it was an official twitter service
<ali1234> it just looked like some random joker sending me garbage
<ali1234> so i reported em
<MartijnVdS> twitter sends suggestions?
<ali1234> yes
<MartijnVdS> never seen that
<ali1234> http://support.twitter.com/articles/20075772
<ali1234> i only saw it once
<ali1234> then i instantly reported and blocked it
<ali1234> because just blocking it isn't enough
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: btw, Facebook also has positive feedback -- "Like"
<ali1234> why would i want to encourage them?
<MartijnVdS> your choice ;)
<ali1234> when i heard about the facebook thing the first thing i thought of was "great. i will now go and report all the annoying apps in facebook" so i logged in... and they are all already gone :o
<MartijnVdS> :)
<ali1234> so i am OK with this
<ali1234> i hope they don't come back
<daubers> Was wondering why gedit wasn't installed for a moment, then realised I was using the wrong box :(
<selinuxium> Morning all!   o/
<MooDoo> morning all
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> morning
<MooDoo> yay my blog post made UWN :)(
<bigcalm> uwn?
<MooDoo> ubuntu weekly news
<bigcalm> I see
<MooDoo> how is everyone today?
<dwatkins> enjoying amusing videos of people who love cats ;) how's everyone else
<MooDoo> tired lol
<bigcalm> Just used the sd card reader in the revo. How wonderfully useful that is
 * bigcalm likes things that *just work*
<hoover_> morning
<bigcalm> Howdy hoover
<dwatkins> bigcalm: seconded
<wintellect> Mornin all
<MooDoo> another quiet tuesday
<selinuxium> Hey hippychick, long time, no chat...
 * selinuxium is much more awake than yesterday...
<popey> morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<bigcalm> Hi popey
<MooDoo> morning popey
 * AlanBell sees people signing up to http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/1032/detail/
<selinuxium> morning  o/
 * selinuxium cannot attend Geeknic... :( Doing an office move that weekend..
<MooDoo> booo to office moves
<MooDoo> not that i can make it anyway lol
 * MooDoo prods czajkowski seeing as davmor2 is away this week 
<MooDoo> hi all just a reminder about the team meeting tonight....8pm :)
<MooDoo> AlanBell, in ubuntu-meeting?
<popey> #ubuntu-uk-meeting I think you mean?
<AlanBell> yup
<AlanBell> daubers: I picked 10AM for the library thing, think that is OK?
<MooDoo> popey, thanks was just checking as it's not in the email.
<gord> bah, i can't go to the ubuntu-ie thing :( team dinner at the same time
<AlanBell> http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=156528094418552
<MooDoo> AlanBell, shared on my facebook page :)
<AlanBell> jolly good
<AlanBell> I still don't really get facebook
<MooDoo> AlanBell, good stay well clear of it :)
<daubers> AlanBell: Sounds good, should just be as the cheap trains kick in
 * daubers has the easiest office move ever coming up!
<daubers> Step one, acquire sledgehammer, step too, put sledgehammer through wall, step 3, step through hole
<daubers> s/too/two
<daubers> stupid fingers
<AlanBell> do we need a facebook page or something?
<czajkowski> gord: poor planning the ubuntu-ie thing has been schculed and blogged !
<daubers> a what book page?
<czajkowski> gord: go afterwards and meet the folks from tog.ie
<AlanBell> I think me posting things is sub-optimal as I am a bit of a billy-no-mates
 * daubers just misread the bbc news home page and thought there was a "geek" union
<czajkowski> AlanBell: sup
<MooDoo> AlanBell, ubuntu-uk facebook page?
<AlanBell> yeah, I don't know
<MooDoo> AlanBell, it's easy enough to do :)
<AlanBell> I know there is an ubuntu page somewhere with 400,000 fans or something
<AlanBell> I created that event, and found 14 people to send it to, which feels a bit pointless
<MooDoo> AlanBell, https://www.facebook.com/pages/create.php
<popey> AlanBell: ask jono to share via the ubuntu page
<MooDoo> create it there
<popey> do we need a page?
<AlanBell> popey: share the facebook event I created or the loco directory page?
<MooDoo> popey, probably not, just another place for news
<popey> AlanBell: the event, which contains a link to the loco directory
<AlanBell> ok
<MooDoo> AlanBell, are you sending a reminder out about the meeting?
<AlanBell> yup . . .
<daubers> "All are welcome" except Vogons
<daubers> Feels like my office has more and more vogons every day :( stupid paper work
<MooDoo> daubers, shush i'm drinking my pangalacticgargleblaster andwant to do it in peace :)
 * MooDoo just hopes vogons were in hitch hikers lol
<daubers> MooDoo: They were
<MooDoo> daithif, thought so, just had a brain freeze :)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MooDoo> brobostigon, morning :)
<brobostigon> MooDoo: morning :)
<popey> I still don't get what "Digital Dogging" is that TheOpenSourcerer mentioned this morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
<brobostigon> maybe some activity in virtual, like second life ?
<matti> ;]
<popey> I don't have TheOpenSourcerer down as a Second Life kinda guy
<popey> he's more of a First Life dude
<brobostigon> hmm,ok.
<brobostigon> maybe by some method, machines virtually dogging eachother?
<AlanBell> it involves beer
<brobostigon> using an arduino to brew beer?
<AlanBell> you are over complicating things
<ali1234> um
<daubers> popey: That phrase made me reach for the mind bleach
<daubers> http://mindbleach.org/
 * brobostigon shakes fist at stupid telephone sales people.
<daubers> \o/ New phone day today
<brobostigon> good luck daubers :)
<geek1d> geetings fellow penguins
<geek1d> greetings*
<MooDoo> geek1d, greeting :)
<brobostigon> AlanBell: sharing of beer meetups, over mobile.
<AlanBell> it involves going to a pub and drinking most of it. Quite simple.
<brobostigon> :)
 * BigRedS appears to have focussed this window at the right sort of time
<brobostigon> i was overthinking it.
<geek1d> MooDoo, :)
 * AlanBell is getting slightly annoyed at LibreOffice windows randomly crashing and vanishing
<brobostigon> :(
<geek1d> anything intresting going on in the ubuntu-uk channel!
<MooDoo> geek1d, always :) we're here :)
<popey> Anyone got any news we should cover on the podcast?
<popey> we're pre-recording tonight for next week
<popey> (no live show)
<AlanBell> books and butties
<MooDoo> popey, progress of oggcamp?  well it's not news but would be interesting
<popey> got that
<popey> yup. oggcamp update too
<MooDoo> popey, ubuntu-uk call to arms for the loco renewal?
<MooDoo> clutchinbg at straws here :)
<popey> do we have a date for re-approval meeting yet?
<popey> It's not on the loco council agenda
<popey> is it stil "some time before oneiric"?
<AlanBell> it is some time before oneiric, I would like it to be the next loco-council meeting I don't intend to add it to the agenda until there is something worth looking at
<popey> ok
 * AlanBell prepares documents to present at the Home Office tomorrow
 * brobostigon noticed, we dont seem to have an autism/aspergers group.
<BigRedS> should we have one?
<brobostigon> maybe, just an idea
<AlanBell> freenode does, #wrongplanet
<brobostigon> yes,but that is outside,not within ubuntu's community.
<carl__> #nowjs
<daubers> popey: I keep meaning to drop the podcast an email about your "accessible server" thing the other episode
 * popey hands carl__ a "/" and a "j", "o", "i" and finally an "s"
<popey> daubers: DO IT!
<popey> do it now!
<popey> s/s/n
<daubers> popey: i.e. that is how I get my wages paid :)
<popey> http://popey.com/minecraft/day/#/-952/64/-6777/-3/mcmapLighting
<popey> we now have an area set aside for the welsh on the minecraft map
<popey> zoom out and note how far away it is from the rest of the map
<daubers> heh
<AlanBell> it is a bit too flat and dry
<dogmatic69_> hehe
<daubers> populations about right though
<BigRedS> haha
<dogmatic69_> how many sheep are there in that section?
<popey> hah
<popey> I hear it's good for mining
<popey> "Breaking news: RMS is attending in Vienna"
<popey> bah, wrong channel
<daubers> popey: Lots of coal?
<bigcalm> Humm, I'm near Telford
<andylockran> ok.. massively confused
<andylockran> just went to download the 11.04 torrent
<andylockran> clicked download
<andylockran> transmission opened
<andylockran> 10 seconds later it was downloaded
<andylockran> 685 mb
<MooDoo> wow
<AlanBell> did you already have it?
<andylockran> AlanBell: not that I know of
<andylockran> and I saw the progress bar jumping up pretty fastr
<JGJones> Purely on a off-chance anyone might have actually done so - have one tried using jabber-terminal from here: https://code.google.com/p/jabber-terminal/
<andylockran> unless it identified the same iso someplace else on my system
<andylockran> i.e. spotlight is torrent aware
<andylockran> I attempted download it through unetbootin directly a few days back.. but it stopped at 181MB
<andylockran> (that was home, rather than the office connection).
<MooDoo> well i'm not getting a 10 second download but 900KB/s aint bad
<JGJones> A question regarding screen - With screen - you use Ctrl-A etc to pass commands to screen- but what if I'm using an app that also make use of CTRL-A too - how do I pass that to the app instead of screen (hope the question make sense?)?
<hoover> you can remap the esc key JGJones
<JGJones> hmm I'm actually using byobu - so it's using the function keys instead
<hoover> byobu is just a spiced up screen with a cool init file ;-)
<AlanBell> hmm. not raining. That means I have to go to the school sports day
<hoover> you can change the control char with the -e option
<brobostigon> have fun AlanBell :)
<MooDoo> AlanBell, went to my nephews last week....what fun ;)
 * AlanBell gets set for the humiliating dads race
<JGJones> AlanBell, it's a bonus  you get to run in the father's run! (and don't end up with an inflammed knee like I did)...it's not cool for the kids to see their father hobbling off in front of the whole school
<popey> AlanBell: in the rain?
<popey> raining here
<AlanBell> no rain here
<AlanBell> they don't actually let the dads run, it is generally some kind of hopping with a beanbag between your knees thing
<AlanBell> I would actually be up for a proper 100M race
<MooDoo> AlanBell, my son ran, well he ran up the lanes with the big kids, sneaked onto the track lol 2.5 years old lol bless
<JGJones> AlanBell, ah...beanbag between knees :D My kid's school's a proper run, but think it's more like 70m
<JGJones> hoover, ta - have remapped the esc key, that fixed it.
<Laney> JGJones: C-a a
<JGJones> Laney, so if using say...minicom - this would mean in screen I would need to go Ctrl-A a z to do Ctrl-A Z for minicom?
<Laney> sounds right
<JGJones> ah...that works too
<JGJones> ta Laney although mapping esc key make it go quicker
<JGJones> (1 less button to press)
<JGJones> Would any hardware modem "just works" with Ubuntu? (not a winmodem)
<JGJones> even if via USB if no serial port available?
<ali1234> JGJones: should do, yeah
<ali1234> using minicom inside screen is going to get confusing
<ali1234> jabber-terminal should make screen unnecessary anyway
<AlanBell> great, cycled to the school, now pouring down
<JGJones> ali1234, I've got that installed but doesn't seem to work for me - it logs on to the jabber...but...after that...no idea and it ends in an error anyway.
<MattJ> Jabber \o/
<JGJones> and finally - minicom does use CTRL-A etc for menus - how would you pass that in jabber? :)
<ali1234> well you don't *have* to use minicom
<ali1234> you might be better of using something simpler like cu
<JGJones> true...but first...would need to get jabber-terminal working anyway.
<JGJones> you got it working?
<ali1234> i will dig out the old modem and try it
<dwatkins> jabber-terminal? whatever next...? ;)
<MattJ> smtp-terminal!
<ali1234> i remember putting those modem in a box the other day......
<dwatkins> serial graphics
<directhex> it's halfway through 2011, and minecraft still ships a broken lwjgl?
<MartijnVdS> lwjgl?
<dutchie> LightWeight Java Game Library
<BigRedS> lightweight?
<BigRedS> Java?
<BigRedS> I suppose it's all relative...
<popey> game?
<popey> java?
<popey> etc
<DanielRM> I can't think of a pithy comment to continue the chain.
<AlanBell> Library?
 * AlanBell is soaking
<ali1234> what exactly is broken about it?
<ali1234> does anyone else get the thing where keys get stuck? is that what's broken about it?
<directhex> ali1234, everyone on linux gets that, yes
<directhex> ali1234, and yes, that's one of the two major flaws in the shipped version of lwjgl
<ali1234> JGJones: did you compile jabber-terminal from source?
<popey> 12:51:19 < popey> AlanBell: in the rain?
<popey> was my hint that it was likely to rain :D
<AlanBell> yes, I know
<popey> Good good.
<AlanBell> but I would be even more of a failure if I hadn't turned up
<ali1234> you've got to love these none helpful error messages: http://paste.ubuntu.com/634253/
<ali1234> it's dying because no ~/.jabber-terminal.com
<ali1234> but i had to strace it to find that out
<ali1234> ok so there doesn't appear to be anywhere to enter the server..
<ali1234> MattJ: got a minute to answer dumb questions about jabber?
<MattJ> Jabber away
<ali1234> http://stderr.org/doc/libgloox-doc/html/classgloox_1_1Client.html
<ali1234> ever used libgloox?
<MattJ> Yes
<ali1234> so, Client has three constructors
<ali1234> the code i'm using uses the second one, which uses a JID, and doesn't take a server ID
<ali1234> so how does it know what server to connect to?
<ali1234> does it just use the part of your jabber ID after the @?
<MattJ> Yes
<ali1234> cs that won't work for gmail
<MattJ> Yes it will, it uses SRV records to find which host to connect to
<ali1234> hmm. well, it doesn't work in practice
<MattJ> which is the correct way to do it
<ali1234> so the problem must be somewhere else
<ali1234> how can i get some debugging out of this thing?
<MattJ> The only time I've seen it fail is with broken home routers, which don't support SRV records
<MattJ> Thankfully they're not very common, but they're /too/ common
<ali1234> oh Azelphur was talking about SRV records the other day...
<ali1234> so how do i check that?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: dig -t SRV some_hostname
<ali1234> um... and then how do i know if it worked?
<ali1234> i did dig -t SRV gmail.com (the part of my ID after the @) but i don't see "talk.google.com" anywhere in that output
<MattJ> ali1234: Try: dig +short +ttlid srv _xmpp-client._tcp.gmail.com.
<czajkowski> hello thunder!
<ali1234> ok *that* worked
<ali1234> i dont use my router's dns anyway
<MattJ> Right, that's what gloox should do when you give a gmail.com JID
<MooDoo> czajkowski, nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
<ali1234> ok, so it just starts up... and then nothing happens. i don't see the user come online
<MattJ> ali1234: sent presence?
<ali1234> dunno, i didn't write the code
<ali1234> i'm just trying to make it work :)
<MattJ> which code is it?
<ali1234> jabber-terminal
<hoover> cheers all
<ali1234> it appears to hang at a DNS query
<ali1234> oh no
<ali1234> port 5222 - connect just hangs
<MattJ> Which host is it connecting to?
<ali1234> 74.125.230.150
<ali1234> whch has no reverse dns
<ali1234> and it timed out
<MattJ> Looks like gmail.com
<ali1234> it's none of the servers returned by the SRV
<ali1234> yeha, it's gmail.com
<ali1234> soooo..... what does this mean?
<MattJ> Hmm, what version of gloox do you have?
<ali1234> the one that's in natty
<MattJ> jabber-terminal doesn't want to build with mine :/
<MattJ> Hmm, ok
<ali1234> !info libgloox8
<lubotu3`> libgloox8 (source: gloox): C++ jabber/xmpp library. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.0-1ubuntu2 (natty), package size 437 kB, installed size 1184 kB
<ali1234> can i sidestep this for now by just manually specifying the server using the other Client constructor?
<MattJ> Yeah, you can try
<MattJ> libgloox8 won't work here, and I don't feel like compiling gloox from source right now
<MattJ> Curious why it won't work, but my gloox hacking days are long past :)
<ali1234> ok so the version of gloox in natty doesn't have the constructors that take separate args
<ali1234> ok, gotta set everything manually
<czajkowski> MooDoo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDl7S22fihk
<MooDoo> czajkowski, ah lol don't ii feel silly :)
<MooDoo> czajkowski, i never got to see davmor2 so i'm guessing i will end up meeting you first ;) lol
<ali1234> success
<andylockran> guys, regexp (never been that good with it)
<andylockran> I want to match a line that ends with $ or &
<andylockran> any reference someone could point me toward
<Azelphur> (\$|&)$
<jpds> andylockran: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0596520689/
 * MartijnVdS overcooks some regular expressions
<shauno> the sky's on fire.  it's the endtimes!
<MooDoo> shauno, not again :)
 * popey pokes hippychick with a stick
<danfish> afternoon
<MooDoo> howdy danfish
<danfish> shauno: reminds me of the saying we had where I grew up "Red Sky in morning, sailor's warning, red sky at night, the kids have set the mill on fire"
<danfish> lo MooDoo
<hippychick> yikes
<brobostigon> afternoonings danfish
<danfish> o/
<brobostigon> o/
 * MooDoo is a gibbering wreck under the desk.....#scaredofthunderandlightning
<daubers> \o/ New Phone!
<brobostigon> daubers: which ?
<danfish> MooDoo: it's only angry sky magic - a small goat sacrifice should appease the relevant gods ;)
<selinuxium> daubers, which one?
<daubers> Galaxy S II
<brobostigon> cool.
<danfish> ooohh - shiny :)
<danfish> have you rooted it yet?
<selinuxium> daubers, and...?
<daubers> 'tis very swanky
 * selinuxium is waiting for delivery of my S II
<daubers> \o/ Need to start mucking around with the SDK now
<directhex> android :(
<MooDoo> danfish, i rooted my desire last week :)
<daubers> \o/ Need to start mucking around with the SDK nowb3C38EbE
<daubers> Urgh
<daubers> Stupid computer
<danfish> moo
<danfish> oops
<MooDoo> moo indeed
<danfish> MooDoo: have you changed the ROM?
<MooDoo> danfish, followed the instructions on the cyanogen site.....
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh - A new and possibly interesting IM client from Mozilla: http://trunk.planet.mozillamessaging.com/ Not tried it yet though...
<directhex> still waiting for pre3. should have been announced by now though i think :/
<TheOpenSourcerer> 1.0
<TheOpenSourcerer> I like the idea of Twitter and IRC in the same app. Might cause all sorts of weird cross-postings ;-)
<directhex> instantbird was terrible last i looked. xul is an awful platform for app development
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, smuxi is an irc client which also support twitterings. you should use that.
<popey> https://launchpad.net/schizobird
<popey> anyone tried that?
<popey> i note twitter.com/conscioususer uses it
<TheOpenSourcerer> Love the name popey - I am rather happy and pleased with Hotot for the time being.
<selinuxium> I also love the name!
<selinuxium> MooDoo, you got an SII too?
<TheOpenSourcerer> This is "a good thing" http://www.computing.co.uk/ctg/news/2082169/governments-technology-adviser-source-enthusiast
<MooDoo> seeker, no just the desire
<MooDoo> selinuxium, oops, no just got the desire
<selinuxium> MooDoo, Okay... Is there a ROM for the SII already? /me goes googling..
<MooDoo> selinuxium, can only find one for the S not the SII
<TheOpenSourcerer> Blimey: "There are now over 500,000 Android devices activated every day, and it's growing at 4.4% w/w"
<directhex> i don't want another android phone :/
<MattJ> directhex: what would you get instead?
<directhex> MattJ, i'm eagerly awaiting the pre 3
<selinuxium> TheOpenSourcerer, No wonder Apple are trying every avenue of litigation...
<Xei> ÑÑÑ Ð½Ð° ÐºÐ°ÐºÐ¾Ð¼ ÑÐ·ÑÐºÐµ Ð¿ÐµÑÐµÐ¿Ð¸ÑÑÐ²Ð°ÑÑÑÑ ???
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh Russian.
<Xei> rus ????
<Xei> or eng ????
<selinuxium> Xei, Eng
<TheOpenSourcerer> This is Ubuntu UK (en_GB)
<BigRedS> eng
<jpds> !ru | Xei
<lubotu3`> Xei: ÐÐ¾Ð¶Ð°Ð»ÑÐ¹ÑÑÐ° Ð¿Ð¾ÑÐµÑÐ¸ÑÐµ #ubuntu-ru Ð´Ð»Ñ Ð¿Ð¾Ð»ÑÑÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ Ð¿Ð¾Ð¼Ð¾ÑÐ¸ Ð½Ð° ÑÑÑÑÐºÐ¾Ð¼ ÑÐ·ÑÐºÐµ  / Pozhalujsta posetite /join #ubuntu-ru dlya polucheniya pomoshi na russkom yazyke
<Xei> lubotu3`: ÑÐ¿Ð°ÑÐ¸Ð±Ð¾ÑÐºÐ¸ Ð·Ð° ÑÐ¾Ð²ÐµÑ
<selinuxium> jpds, You lurking... :)
<jpds> ÑÑÐ¾ Ð±ÑÐ»Ð¾ Ð»ÐµÐ³ÐºÐ¾.
<KrisWillis> Hi guys, I've just swapped out 6GB of RAM for 12GB, and I can no longer get back into my OS, it just appears to freeze after the splash screen - I have a Windows 7 partition on the disk too that reboots after the splash screen - Any ideas?
<jpds> selinuxium: As always.
<KrisWillis> I have just successfully booted into a live CD ok, though
<KrisWillis> and system monitor can see my new 12GB
<KrisWillis> I ran memtest for 15 mins while downloading / burning the live CD, and that didn't find anything in admitidly a small amount of time
<MattJ> 12GB?!
<jpds> KrisWillis: Bad memory?
<jpds> Oh wait, reread the last few lines. ;)
<KrisWillis> Yeah, I have three monitors and 4 workspaces full of crap open most of the time, MattJ - my 6 was always getting full
<MattJ> .
<AlanBell> we have a server running cheerfully on 24GB
<popey> i have a box with 4GB RAM that takes 8 hours to find an error in memtest
<MattJ> AlanBell: server, sure
<selinuxium> -:)
<KrisWillis> Hmmm, after about an hour of rebooting, booting into live CDs, failing to boot into Win 7 - My Ubuntu partition has just managed to boot
<KrisWillis> I wonder if it was a fuke... Rebooting...
<ujjain> What do lollipops have to do with signs?
<hamitron> they look similar?
<ujjain> "At first I didn't beleive my dad stole from his work as a lollipop man, but all the signs were there".
<KrisWillis> What *dont* they have to do with signs?!
<ujjain> alollipop is something you lick?
<daubers> http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/12/09/article-1093185-02BEC595000005DC-504_468x383.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1093185/Council-Scrooges-ban-lollipop-mans-tinsel.html&h=383&w=468&sz=35&tbnid=1JVjBnzzcG26DM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=110&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dlollipop%2Bman%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=lollipop+man&usg=__-6D6AUR8PDw5ul5iM6XdBxWpb5c=&sa=X&ei=TuUJToLyLo2xhAen4rT
<daubers> 0Dw&ved=0CDUQ9QEwAQ&dur=240 <- lollipop man
<jpds> ujjain: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Lollipop_man
<ujjain> ohhh, that's a lollipop man, I get it :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> daubers: Every heard of bt.ly ;-)
<KrisWillis> Just rebooted fine back into 10.10 - Maybe it was just having some teething issues with the new RAM :S
<TheOpenSourcerer> KrisWillis: Your Win7 partition has been analysing and deciding the best way to fill up the 12GB with useless data.
<jpds> TheOpenSourcerer: You support Libya?
<ujjain> lol, I don't get any of these jokes
<KrisWillis> TheOpenSourcerer: You're probably right - Just trying to boot back into that one now - Not too bothered about it though, I only rarely boot into Win7 to play Starcraft II
<hamitron> Windows_Installation: Con...fused, can't compute route to slowdown
<xapel> If I install Ubuntu over windows, will it keep any files? If so, which ones?
<hamitron> ;/
<AlanBell> xapel: no, they will all be removed, unless you ask it to install alongside
<hamitron> KrisWillis: doesn't starcraft 2 work on wine?
<KrisWillis> hamitron: No idea - my 3 monitors need Xinerama to work properly, so I get no 3D support anyway...
<directhex> xapel, you can either *replace* windows, which means no files at all are kept, or install *alongside* windows, at which point windows is kept in its entireity and you can select to boot it from a menu at boot time
<hamitron> KrisWillis: ok :/
<xapel> directhex, AlanBell: Hi guys, I am quite familiar with dual boot. I seem to remember that the Ubuntu installer does keep files from My Documents if you install over Windows. Maybe it is for Wubi only, or perhaps it is only experimental.
<asaaki> hello
<AlanBell> it can keep /home if you install it over linux but if installing over windows it has to make a whole new filesystem
<MooDoo> xapel, wubi would install along side windows but not need a seperate partition
<asaaki> has anyone had any permission issues even though they're working as "root"?
<asaaki> i just installed ubuntu 11.04
<xapel> AlanBell, ok thanks.
<popey> asaaki: can you be more specific?
<asaaki> i'm trying to install a few tools
<asaaki> but when i say "sudo make"
<asaaki> or ./configure
<asaaki> i get "Permission denied"
<asaaki> i used wubi for ubuntu 11.04 on 64-bit windows machine
<TheOpenSourcerer> asaaki: You shouldn't build code as root.
<TheOpenSourcerer> "sudo make install" yes.
<asaaki> oh..
<TheOpenSourcerer> sudo make or sudo ./configure no.
<asaaki> k i'll try as another user...
<TheOpenSourcerer> But that isn't the issue you are suffering from.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Just some advice.
<popey> you're probably getting permission denied because you did "sudo tar zxvf foo.tgz"
<popey> which unpacked it and made it all owned by root
<TheOpenSourcerer> The normal route to build something from source is ./configure, make, make install
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yes, popey is right.
<AlanBell> but first, is there a packaged version you can use?
<asaaki> yes i know that
<asaaki> 's the normal way to do it
<TheOpenSourcerer> the only command you should use as root is make install.
<popey> asaaki: what are you building?
<asaaki> actually the tools i got give instructions
<TheOpenSourcerer> which will put the binaries in (hopefully) sane places.
<asaaki> i'm building SRILM (for speech recognition)
<asaaki> here are the build instructions:
<popey> dont paste them here
<popey> if you have a link, sure, do that
<popey> but not the whole text
<popey> or stick them in http://paste.ubuntu.com/
<asaaki> k not pasting the whole text, but the sequence is this: 1. unpack, 2. set a varialbe in Makefile.PL, 3. make World
<asaaki> GNU make is required... when i use the command "make", is that what I'm using?
<popey> are you doing this on Ubuntu?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Have you installed the package build-essential ?
<asaaki> i just searched for build-essential in Ubuntu Software Center, and yes it's installed
<asaaki> here's a link to what I'm trying to build: http://www.speech.sri.com/projects/srilm/download.html
<AlanBell> asaaki: are you doing research into srilm?
<asaaki> but that's just one of the tools, i have permission denied problems in the other tools as well, eg. ./configure gives "Permission denied"
<asaaki> AlanBell, i'm researching using the tool, yes
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.speech.sri.com/pipermail/srilm-user/2010q2/000870.html
<AlanBell> ok, there are some recognition libraries in the repos already
<TheOpenSourcerer> Do you have the C shell installed? csh/tcsh?
<TheOpenSourcerer> See the next thread http://www.speech.sri.com/pipermail/srilm-user/2010q2/000871.html
<asaaki> thanks TheOpenSourcerer, but yes I've seen that link, and I do have csh/tcsh installed, when i type "which csh" i get a path
<asaaki> and i installed them myself too
<TheOpenSourcerer> where are you trying to run ./configure?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Which directory? And what is that directory's perms/owner
<asaaki> i'm trying to run it for this tool: http://chasen.org/~taku/software/yamcha/
<TheOpenSourcerer> "Where" not what. i.e. /home/asaaki/srilm or whatever
<asaaki> all the tools are in /home/nlp/
<asaaki> so i try /home/nlp/yamcha-0.33$ ./configure
<AlanBell> are you logged in as "nlp"?
<asaaki> i'm logged in as asaaki
<TheOpenSourcerer> what does ls -l /home/nlp say?
<TheOpenSourcerer> !pastebinit
<lubotu3`> pastebinit is the command-line equivalent of !pastebin - Command output, or other text can be redirected to pastebinit, which then reports an URL containing the output - To use pastebinit, install the Â« pastebinit Â» package from a package manager - Simple usage: command | pastebinit -b http://paste.ubuntu.com
<asaaki> i did ls -l /home/nlp, and i think i have all permissions, because for each folder i get : drwx------ 11
<asaaki> i believe that's all the rights?
<TheOpenSourcerer> No.
<asaaki> but for the yamcha folder, i get : drwxr-xr-x 13 asaaki
<asaaki> i did chmod 777 on yamcha
<BigRedS> well, as long as you're the user who owns that directory you've full rights, but nobody else has any
<asaaki> that's fine, i'm the only user on this machine
<asaaki> ok i just did sudo chmod 777 on every single folder
<AlanBell> ick
<TheOpenSourcerer> Why?
 * selinuxium cringes..
<asaaki> um... to get all the possible rights so i can just build something?
<asaaki> i mean everything in /home/nlp, but still no luck
<AlanBell> I would do sudo chown -R asaaki: /home/nlp
<TheOpenSourcerer> paste the output of ls -l when you are in /home/nlp/yamcha
<TheOpenSourcerer> It might be that your files are not read/write or owned or executable...
<asaaki> okay i just did what AlanBell said, chown
<TheOpenSourcerer> Use the http://paste.ubuntu.com
<asaaki> the output of ls -l on yamcha is kind of long
<asaaki> okay! i just pasted: http://paste.ubuntu.com/634345/
<MooDoo> asaaki, pipe it to pastebinit
<MooDoo> ahi'm too slow :)
<asaaki> :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> None of the files that need to be are executable.
<JGJones> ali1234, No I didn't complie jabber-terminal from source myself - is that what you're doing?
<TheOpenSourcerer> -rw------- 1 asaaki asaaki 733171 2005-09-03 03:33 configure
<asaaki> oh!
<AlanBell> that has totally not been made 777
<asaaki> what does it take to give them permissions?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I would unpack the tarball again.
<TheOpenSourcerer> only some files need to be executable.
<TheOpenSourcerer> not all.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Your files are chmod 600 which is unusual
<popey> the tarbal should unpack fine with the right perms
<popey> if done in the right place with no messing with chmod/chown
<TheOpenSourcerer> (16:02:14) TheOpenSourcerer: I would unpack the tarball again.
<popey> indeed
<asaaki> okay :) trying
<popey> also, not sudo
<asaaki> ok i just found the tarball again... kind of not that used to ubuntu..
<asaaki> aha!
<asaaki> yamcha's configuring now! :)
<asaaki> merci
<asaaki> i suppose i should do the same for the rest
<ujjain> I worked in produce, which wasn't exactly rocket salad. < What does this mean?
<bigcalm> Hehe
<MartijnVdS> ujjain: it's a pun
<jpds> ujjain: http://forum.koohii.com/viewtopic.php?pid=6132#p6132
<MartijnVdS> ujjain: (rocket science and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket_(vegetable)
<MartijnVdS> jpds: also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chaos :)
<MartijnVdS> jpds: (http://www.spellingsociety.org/journals/j17/caos.php -- written by a Dutchman :P)
<ujjain> uh, is produce dirty?
 * jpds notes that he's not flying.
<jpds> ujjain: No.
<ujjain> I am confused, ^^ rocket science != rocket vegetable, on a farm,
<popey> oh dear
<popey> ok, "It's not rocket science" is a quip
<MartijnVdS> ujjain: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/produce#Noun --> meaning 3
<directhex> ujjain, something very complicated is described as "rocket science"
<popey> one used to say "It's not hard!"
<popey> "rocket salad" is something you eat, so could be considered "produce"
<directhex> ujjain, something easy is "not rocket science"
<popey> where "produce" is the aisle in the supermarket where you find salad
<popey> ujjain: see also "it's not brain surgery"
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THNPmhBl-8I ?
<ujjain> right, I get it's not rocket science, brain surgury, htose require a big learning process
<TheOpenSourcerer> And they wonder why it's so hard to get a computer to do proper speech...
<popey> ujjain: it's humour
<bigcalm> popey: was
<popey> and now that we are explaining it, it is becoming less and less funny
<popey> well, yes
<bigcalm> :)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: until we started butchering it? :)
<bigcalm> Language is a bugger
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: in the Ender's Game sense? :P
<TheOpenSourcerer> But watching the explanation is rather funny from where I'm sitting :-D
<ujjain> thanks :)
<jussi> you know, chicken ramen + mango chutney isnt that bad...
<bigcalm> jussi: Sharwoods?
<ujjain> I worked in a sweat shop, it was so-so. < how about this one?
<jussi> err, maybe that was intended for elsewhere... but meh, works here as well
<popey> ramen == supernoodels
<ujjain> I don't get it either.
<popey> ujjain: so sounds like sew
<jussi> bigcalm: no
<popey> sewing being something you do in a sweatshop
<bigcalm> jussi: ah well :)
<ujjain> ahh, I get it
<ujjain> thanks
<MooDoo> popey, captain picard to his seemstress......make it sew :)
<jussi> bigcalm: Im not UK based ;)
<bigcalm> jussi: fair enough
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: and to his girlfriend: Engage!
<popey> http://e.asset.soup.io/asset/2083/7342_6891_400.jpeg
<popey> made me smile
<ujjain> link not working for me.
<ujjain> "works now, refresh
<jpds> popey: Believers going to believe.
<popey> haha
<popey> i want that haters gonna hate animation with that please
<popey> make it so jpds
<popey> chop chop
<ujjain> Ryo++
<MooDoo> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Did you see this one? http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/06/dear_emma_b.php
<popey> ooo a picture of Mr Gumby!
<ujjain> I have a last one I don't get. I used to be a pantel horse, but I quit while I was ahead"
<ujjain> Some play on panty hose maybe? :P
<BigRedS> no, panto horse
<BigRedS> as in a pantomime, they're made up of two people, one is the head end, the other the back end
<BigRedS> it's a pun on 'ahead' versus 'a head'
<ujjain> ahhhh hehe t
<ujjain> thanks :p
<BigRedS> haha, no probs
<popey> nice
<jpds> popey: I'm sorry, I don't have PhotoShop.
<popey> \o/ podcast recording night
<popey> no live show
<MooDoo> you ought to stream it via bambuser one night :)
<AlanBell> http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/public-sector/2011/06/uk-shakes-dust-off-open-source.html stuff I am doing tomorrow has been leaked to the press O_o
<MartijnVdS> must be important then, if it's being leaked :)
<MooDoo> leaked = deliberatly passed on right?
<AlanBell> yeah, but not by me
<AlanBell> don't expect articles about "the wet-ink proposal" when I just printed it out
<Azelphur> when you put a hard drive into a different computer, the network interface names get borked (like eth0 becomes eth1) any idea how to fix it?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: in /etc/udev/rules.d/ there's "70-persistent-net.rules"
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: remove that and it'll reset itself
<Azelphur> ty, that's what I was looking for :)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: it gets written by a persistent-net.rules file in /etc/udev/
<asaaki> hi guys, i unpacked the tarballs again and everything's working fine and dandy, at least as far as permissions are concerned
<asaaki> BUT, during some builds I'm getting this: cc1plus: error: CPU you selected does not support x86-64 instruction set
<asaaki> i downloaded the i386 iso
<asaaki> wouldn't that be the right one? i'm on a 64-bit windows machine and got ubuntu from wubi
<MartijnVdS> Indeed, that wouldn't be the right iso
<asaaki> no? oh dear... which one then
<MartijnVdS> For 64-bit support  you need the 64-bit version of Ubuntu
<asaaki> is that i686?
<MartijnVdS> "amd64" it's called (but it works on intel 64-bit CPUs as well)
<asaaki> i did "uname -a", and got this:
<asaaki> Linux ubuntu 2.6.38-8-generic #42-Ubuntu SMP Mon Apr 11 03:31:24 UTC 2011 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
<MartijnVdS> hm, that's the right one
<MartijnVdS> x86_64
<MartijnVdS> asaaki: what does "lsb_release -a" say?
<MartijnVdS> asaaki: (please use a pastebin)
<asaaki> doesn't say a lot: http://pastebin.com/BZQKYBkX
<MartijnVdS> hm.
<MartijnVdS> mine says something about architecture
<MartijnVdS> let me think..
<MartijnVdS> asaaki: file /bin/ls
<asaaki> /bin/ls: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.15, stripped
<MartijnVdS> so you're already running the 64-bit version of Ubuntu
<MartijnVdS> what are you trying to do, that gives that error?
<asaaki> i actually had to edit a makefile according to my platform... hold on let me paste that
<MartijnVdS> no earlier
<MartijnVdS> what are you trying to do :)
<MartijnVdS> ("bigger picture")
<MartijnVdS> I didn't see your earlier questions/answers
<asaaki> oh... i've been trying to build some tools on ubuntu
<asaaki> earlier there were problems with permissions
<asaaki> but you guys helped out so that's out of the way
<asaaki> but now in building, i have to modify a makefile for one of the tools according to my machine
<bigcalm_> Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
<MartijnVdS> asaaki: what kind of tools?
<asaaki> speech recognition and language model research stuff
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm_: calm! :)
<asaaki> the tool i'm trying to build right now is: http://www.speech.sri.com/projects/srilm/download.html
<asaaki> i just pasted the file that i edited (to be used in building) over here: http://pastebin.com/Djk8HXSk
<MartijnVdS> asaaki: so you made a common/Makefile.machine.i686 or something?
<asaaki> but maybe i've got some variables wrong?
<asaaki> yeah that's the one - i just pasted Makefile.machine.i386-ubuntu
<Multivitamin_> guys, what was the word you put in after slash to change your nickname?
<MartijnVdS> Multivitamin_: /nick
<Multivitamin_> thanks: )
<MartijnVdS> asaaki: why must they make it so hard :)
<asaaki> MartijVdS: wish i knew
<MartijnVdS> asaaki: I think you need the "i686-linux" one, and use the "make MACHINE_TYPE=i686-m64 World" command line
<asaaki> MartijnVdS: k thanks! i'll try
<MartijnVdS> asaaki: just guessing from the INSTALL file here :)
<asaaki> MartijnVdS: why yes! i thought i shouldn't be using that since what i downloaded was i386
<asaaki> but this is building! :D
<asaaki> MartijnVdS: it stops at this though: /usr/include/gnu/stubs.h:7:27: fatal error: gnu/stubs-32.h: No such file or directory
<asaaki> "which gnu" gives nothing, but gnu doesn't seem to be anything that i can sudo get-apt install either
<MartijnVdS> asaaki: it might be compiling for 32 bits, or you don't have headers installed
<MartijnVdS> asaaki: install "apt-file", run "apt-file update", then "apt-file search gnu/stubs-32.h"
<MartijnVdS> that should show you which package it's in
<MartijnVdS> (if any)
<asaaki> ok!
<MartijnVdS> could happen more than once, headers for different libraries are in different packages
<asaaki> oh
<MartijnVdS> but eventually you should be able to finish the compile
<asaaki> :)
<asaaki> so you're saying i might have to do apt-file with every missing .h ?
<MartijnVdS> yes
<asaaki> ah ok
<MartijnVdS> and depending on how many dependencies they have, that could take a while
<asaaki> yep, it's half past midnight here :)
<MartijnVdS> ooh, so you have the entire night to get it right ;)
<asaaki> indeed i do :)
 * MartijnVdS is waiting for a thunderstorm to hit
<bigcalm[tablet]> Vm are still being pants. So now have tablet tethered to phone for a bit of fun
 * bigcalm[tablet] smells coffee
<BigRedS> vm being pants is a constant, I'd not expect it to change any time soon
<bigcalm[tablet]> Well, my connection justcame back. Doubt it will stay though
<MartijnVdS> anyone interested in 2x 256MB PC2100 sticks of RAM?
<bigcalm[tablet]> Smooth off the edges and make yourself some keyfobs
 * shauno looks @ hamitron 
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm[tablet]: these are HUGE
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm[tablet]: if you've played Sam & Max (the old 90s video game one), you'll know the size :)
<asaaki> okay apt-file update does take a while. after apparently receiving the full 18.3 M, it doesn't stop, it just keeps at it, so i Ctrl+C to stop it and ran apt-file search, but nothing happens
<bigcalm[tablet]> Cant say that I have sadly
<bigcalm[tablet]> asaaki: there will be a lock file you will have to remove as you intrupted apt
<asaaki> oh...how can i unlock it? also, however long does the apt work? i guess it also depends on my connection, which is slow
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm[tablet]: no that'll be fine
<MartijnVdS> asaaki: youll have to re-run apt-file update
<MartijnVdS> asaaki: it takes a while to finish
<MartijnVdS> but it will, eventually, finish
<asaaki> :)
<asaaki> what does it do though, once it's run
<bigcalm[tablet]> Oh bugger, it has gone 6pm. Late for dog walking
<MartijnVdS> asaaki: it downloads a list of all files in all packages
<vikfreeze> hy
<MartijnVdS> asaaki: and puts them in an internal database for easy searching
<asaaki> how can i know when it's finished, because it seems to finish 18.3 M, and then start on another cycle
<vikfreeze> can anyone give me some help with samba shares?
<MartijnVdS> asaaki: it downloads one "Contents" file for each part of /etc/apt/sources.list
<MartijnVdS> asaaki: some larger, some smaller
<MartijnVdS> asaaki: could be 10-20 files
<MartijnVdS> on a "normal" install
<asaaki> oh okay i get it
<vikfreeze> does anyone here have any experience with samba on lucid?
<MartijnVdS> vikfreeze: client or server?
<vikfreeze> in my case both
<MartijnVdS> it's not very different from samba on other versions
<MartijnVdS> do you have a specific problem?
<vikfreeze> i have a client and a host but no matthere what config the mount has no write permissions
<vikfreeze> i can mount the share but any write operation is denied even sudo operations
<MartijnVdS> vikfreeze: and does the user you're using have write access on the server side?
<MartijnVdS> in the directory you're trying to write to?
<vikfreeze> permission on the system are correct
<vikfreeze> i even made everything 777 still nothing
<MartijnVdS> don't make everything 777
<MartijnVdS> that's not useful
<MartijnVdS> I have no idea, you might get a quicker answer if you ask on a samba-specific channel
<TheOpenSourcerer> vikfreeze: does the user exist in smbpasswd? Or are you trying to browse/mount as a guest?
<vikfreeze> mabe im doing something wrong here, i have the server witch mounts the local resource on witch the user homes are located and shares it via samba witch is configured with ldap
 * TheOpenSourcerer runs away at the sight of ldap.
<vikfreeze> everything works fine on the server but not in the mounts, more specificaly write denial only ocures in the mounted directory, the rest of the system is fine
<asaaki> MartijnVdS: thanks! finally a successful build (i hope! haven't tested yet). but i found this, quicker search in place of apt-file http://www.debian.org/distrib/packages#search_contents
<asaaki> MartijnVdS: so i'm getting some sleep now :)
<AlanBell> asaaki: would be interested to know how you get on with speech recognition
<asaaki> AlanBell: sure. do you work in anything related?
<Myrtti>                    *sigh*
 * popey hugs Myrtti 
<hamitron> shauno: ?
<hamitron> good looking am I not? ;)
<MooDoo> evening all
<AlanBell> evening all
<MooDoo> hi alan
<AlanBell> meeting about to start in #ubuntu-uk-meeting
<brobostigon> oh,yes, minute.
<daubers> lo
<dimas_> could someone tell me how to add a repository in synaptic?
<brobostigon> dimas_: software sources.
<dimas_> brobostigon yes but i dont understand how the git thing works
<dimas_> or is it something different?
<brobostigon> dimas_: you need to use git, to download from a gitrepo, asprosumablythe stuff inthe git repo needs to be compiled from source.
<brobostigon> !git
<lubotu3`> git is a distributed revision control/software code management project created by Linus Torvalds. For more information, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Git_(software)
<brobostigon> ie, you need a/the git cient, to download from git repo.
<brobostigon> you cant use it, edirectly as apt repo.
<dimas_> is it possible that the repo miss a data?
<brobostigon> ?
<brobostigon> i dont understand youre question.
<dimas_> i did tryed to install the application from the source project page and in the middle i get a error saying i am missing a file
<dimas_> donwloading from a git
<brobostigon> what did it say was missing?
<dimas_> wow...i dont remember anymore but it has to be to an automaking or something like that
<brobostigon> i cant really tell you, how to complete it, unless you can tellme what is/was missing. did you have allthe build tools, like gcc etc ?
<dimas_> i just fallow the instructions on the page...they tell the dependencies that i need to install
<brobostigon> !info build-essential
<lubotu3`> build-essential (source: build-essential): Informational list of build-essential packages. In component main, is optional. Version 11.5ubuntu1 (natty), package size 5 kB, installed size 48 kB
<brobostigon> ok.
<dimas_> brobostigon i am just trying to install a radio station for my girlfriend and now i look like a moron..lol
<dimas_> could you help me with this?
<dimas_> i am trying to install idjc
<brobostigon> dimas_: what is the software tou are trying to compile ?
<brobostigon> ok, minute.
<dimas_> idjc-0.8.4 come with ubuntu 11.04 but i am having problems to connect to the jack server...http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1792197&highlight=idjc+unable+connect+jack+server
<brobostigon> http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=idjc&searchon=names&suite=all&section=all
<brobostigon> it is there inthe repos.
<brobostigon> sudo apt-get install idjc
<brobostigon> i knownothing, about jack, not aclue, i cant help with that one.
<dimas_> brobostigon thank you
<brobostigon> dimas_: i would wait eround, there are people here, who do know about jack.
<dimas_> really
<dimas_> oke
<brobostigon> yes.
<brobostigon> within, androids service manegement, is google messaging service, inclusive of the mms service ?
<AlanBell> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Ubuntu-UK/237328659623076
<AlanBell> if people would like to like that that would be good
<AlanBell> 25 people and it can have a vanity URL which is apparantly quite the thing to have
<brunogirin> that's 2 of us so far, just 23 to go!
<oopsies> i seemed to have installed, but there are no users, how can I create a user if I have no access rights? lol
<AlanBell> oopsies: normally you create a user as part of the install process
<oopsies> obviously, but i missed it out somehow
<oopsies> can I create users using passwd file, or would that be too easy?
<AlanBell> did you just go through the desktop install?
<AlanBell> or the alternate CD or server or something
<oopsies> network install
<AlanBell> ok, do you think it completed?
<AlanBell> you can use adduser to create a user if you can get in as root
<oopsies> i get to a login screen, so i think its well enough, there are just no users
<AlanBell> which you can do from the grub menu if you can get there
<oopsies> there are no root by default, surely
<AlanBell> when you boot if you hold shift you can get to the grub menu
<AlanBell> if you pick a recovery kernel option it will go to another menu
<AlanBell> from there you can drop to a single user root shell
<AlanBell> and then you can "adduser oopsies"
<AlanBell> and create yourself
<oopsies> sure thing, I forgot about that actually :)
<oopsies> haha I need a spank
<AlanBell> do ls /home/ first to see if it created your home dir
<Rafz> g'day
<AlanBell> o/ Rafz
<oopsies> AlanBell: yes :) cheers
 * Rafz^ pats self on back
<Rafz^> managed to figure out how to get here without using browser!
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
<oopsies> night night
<brobostigon> night oopsies
#ubuntu-uk 2011-06-29
<shauno> wildly off-topic, anyone ever click the accessibility 'feature' on capatchas hoping it'll be more useful than the alphabet soup, and marvel at the results?
<BigRedS> haha, no
 * BigRedS looks for a captcha
<shauno> the one on the signup for a google account hurts my head
<directhex> http://kotaku.com/5816423/when-katamari-damacy-and-minecraft-collide
<shauno> oh boy
<shauno> that could be interesting in multiplayer
<shauno> my best attempt at making sense of google's capatcha - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ssm4RVw8MOo
<MattJ> :)
<Azelphur> If you have hyperthreading turned on, and top says it's using 50%, does that mean your using 50% of the physical core, or 50% of the HT core?
<directhex> Azelphur, top treats hyperthreads as physical cores
<Azelphur> cool
<directhex> i.e. quadcore with ht shows as 8 cores
<directhex> but will likely never go over 50% load, due to HT
<Azelphur> so if I've got 4 processes using ~60% I'm pretty much ok to add another 4 processes also using 60% :P
<shauno> not sure about google's new look.  funny feeling it's going to 'mesh' well with some of the ubuntu themes tho  (eg, those that have dark toolbars)
<Azelphur> shauno: that's why I don't use firefox, it tries to skin the web with my gnome theme, doesn't work very well
<Azelphur> I use chrome instead, it doesn't do that \o/
<shauno> oh, not as well as I thought
<shauno> http://cl.ly/2s2U1f3o140W1R3H0L0G
<shauno> what on earth is "apps available for download" in the bfb?
<shauno> http://cl.ly/3E0s3t0f1b0U392h1P2d   I'm not entirely sure why it's offering me "kde collectd database-viewer".  that's a pretty odd list
<dragonkeeper> things that happen during a recession :  women are having sex with there husbands because they cant afford batteries
<Pendulum> dragonkeeper: I really don't think that's an appropriate comment for this channel.
<dragonkeeper> it was quiet
<Pendulum> dragonkeeper: it was a sexist, in appropriate comment
<Pendulum> *inappropriate
<AlanBell> it was indeed
<AlanBell> morning all
<AlanBell> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Ubuntu-UK/237328659623076 need 21 more people to like this then it can have a vanity URL
<ali1234> shauno: did you only just install unity or what?
<shauno> I don't use guis on linux very often
<ali1234> "apps available for download" is a search function. try typing in the name of a program you don't have installed
<shauno> because they make me want to throw my shoes at my screen
<ali1234> it's not supposed to show up unless you start searching
<shauno> interesting.  I don't believe I was searching for anything
<ali1234> yes. it's a bug
<ali1234> JGJones: i got jabber-terminal working but it isn't very good
<ali1234> doesn't really work with apps that move the cursor around
<ali1234> it's really simple anyway though
<AlanBell> I don't like that apps available for download stuff
<ali1234> i do
<AlanBell> makes it harder to find the stuff you actually have
<ali1234> it's a lot better than having to use software centre
<ali1234> unity already made it impossible to find stuff you already have :(
<ali1234> if you want it to be easy switch back to gnome classic
<ali1234> or put that stuff on the launcher
<AlanBell> yeah, have done on my main laptop as unity broke because I dared to change something in ccsm and because it doesn't do multi-monitors
<ali1234> "available apps" doesn't show up in the main dash anyway
<ali1234> not unless you click "more apps" first
<ali1234> it should do though
<ali1234> it's just another way in which unity is inconsistent with even itself
<ali1234> i don't know why i'm even still using it tbh
<AlanBell> if you click the bfb, then use the categories dropdown that doesn't look like a dropdown
<ali1234> what's a bfb?
<ali1234> best friends button?
<AlanBell> then you find all your old friendly categories
<AlanBell> big button top left
<ali1234> oh you mean the big button that's smaller than all the buttons on the launcher?
<AlanBell> yes
<AlanBell> thats the one
<AlanBell> it is called the BFB
<ali1234> you mean shortcuts?
<ali1234> i don't see categories
<AlanBell> top right of the dark brown window is a dropdown, gives you an unthemed grey list of categories
<JGJones> ali1234, it's a first release so expected crappiness ;-) - how does it work with line by line output (ie as I would expect from something like cu)?
<ali1234> it doesn't
<ali1234> JGJones: it doesn't work with any app that keeps on outputing actually
<ali1234> it seems to wait for the program to exit first
<ali1234> AlanBell: dark brown window??
<JGJones> ah pity - guess it still need more work - no idea if it's in active development
<ali1234> AlanBell: you mean: click "more apps" then click the "v" on the right end of the search box?
<AlanBell> maybe, I don't have it in front of me right now
<JGJones> ali1234, it say "All Applications" and a down-arrow in a circle to the right of it - click on this to get categories
<JGJones> sorry...memory failed me - no circle, just a V
<AlanBell> sounds about right
<AlanBell> then it shows you a small selection of stuff you might have, then an equal amount of stuff you don't have
<ali1234> well yeah
<ali1234> i mean, why are you guys just noticing this now?
<ali1234> i've been saying this for two months
<ali1234> the available apps thing *is* good when you searcht hough
<ali1234> because you don't have to know if the app is installed or not
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: except it also lists uninstalled apps if you don't have admin-rights
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: complaining about that gets you a "BUT IT'S A FEATURE!!!!" reply
<ali1234> it just shouldn't show up until you search, and this is a known bug, one of the few problems that are actually acknowledged
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: well ok i'll add that one to my list of things to complain about
<AlanBell> ali1234: I did know about that a while back
<ali1234> no point showing it if the user isn't in sudoers
<ali1234> AlanBell: so you're just complaining now that the shiny has worn off?
<ali1234> i guess now we know exactly how long that takes :)
<AlanBell> no, I complained at the time
<AlanBell> then it broke
<AlanBell> the default lens should just be apps installed grouped by category
<ali1234> no, the default lens should be what it is now except you should be able to replace the 8 default icons with anything you want
<AlanBell> the thing with 6 *huge* buttons does nothing that I want to do
<AlanBell> 8 then
<ali1234> 8 huge icons
<ali1234> and yeah it literally has nothing i want on it
<ali1234> and i did say this tw months ago too
<ali1234> but again nobody listened
<ali1234> actually it's probably longer than two months now
<AlanBell> yeah, echo chamber stuff
<AlanBell> I listened
<ali1234> none of the bugs have been fixed either
<ali1234> and i don't mean design bugs
<ali1234> i mean stuff like firefox rejecting user input, the window not having a title bar, menus that disappear when you move the mouse over them
<MartijnVdS> Try running calibre on oneiric
<ali1234> what's calibre?
<MartijnVdS> "itunes for ebooks"
<ali1234> oh yeah that
<ali1234> why, what happens?
<MartijnVdS> Sometimes you get the app/window
<MartijnVdS> but un-maximize it, and it'll disappear
<MartijnVdS> nothing will react to clicks
<MartijnVdS> gtk-window-decorator crashes
<ali1234> ah yeah, get some of that on natty with certain apps
<MartijnVdS> and STDERR of the app will complain about 16777216x16777216 window size being max
<MartijnVdS> I wish I had a 16777216x16777216 screen ;)_
<ali1234> it seems like annoying existing customers in order to attract a different user base is all the rage at the moment
<ali1234> everyone is doing it
<ali1234> replace the existing UI that mostly works with something new written from scratch that is incredibly annoying, buggy, and needs much higher hardware requirements to run
<ali1234> and also don't bother to fix any of the older bugs in the stuff that you do keep
<ali1234> and at the same time introduce an app store or some other kind of shop the extract more money from users
<daubers> Morning
<diplo> Morning all
<MartijnVdS> howdy
<Myrtti> hola
<daubers> Must be coffee time
<Gary> COFFEE!!!
<daubers> I know, shocking behaviour isn't it
<Gary> I've managed to get our newbie to go get coffee, woo
<gord> thunderbird with the conversation plugin really is nice
<popey> Morning all
<gord> morning
<Gary> morning popeypet and gord
 * popey tickles Gary 
<MooDoo> morning all
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> morning
<bigcalm> Hullo!
<Myrtti> when all this is over, Ill go on a road/train/biketrip with constantly changing scenery
<diplo> Guys and Girls, 11.04 running here, want to run 4-5 VM's on desktop.. thoughts on Virtualbox or using KVM ?
<popey> i would use virtualbox personally
<popey> others swear by kvm
<bigcalm> VirtualBox works for me
<bigcalm> Though I have no experience of KVM
<TheOpenSourcerer> KVM works well on servers but lacks some of the UX features of VirtualBox. Conversely VBox lacks some of the server features of KVM ;-)
<diplo> Cool, thanks guys, virtual box it is
<diplo> Anyone know how it takes having a different amount of ram added later ?
<diplo> Boss is upgrading memory in my PC so i can run more VM's
<bigcalm> You can configure each VM to have a different amount of memory
<bigcalm> And this can be altered later
<bigcalm> Same goes for any of the virtual hardware
<diplo> nah I mean the host, doesn't mind having different memory allocated later
<bigcalm> No, it won't care
<hoover> morning all
<diplo> cheers
<MooDoo> :)
<MooDoo> if you didn't know [or couldn't get to the meeting last night] we have an approval pad you can add stuff too - http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/reapproval
<MooDoo> ooo oanother quiet day
<danfish> MooDoo: boo!
<MooDoo> danfish, aaaaaaaaaaaaarrrghhhh
<MooDoo> :)
<danfish> "aaaaaarrggghhhh" - is it national talk like a pirate day again?
<bigcalm> No, 19th September that be
 * AlanBell is on a train
<danfish> bigcalm: aye aye
<nigelb> AlanBell: where are ya headed to?
<AlanBell> cabinet office first, then Home office in the afternoon
<danfish> AlanBell: good luck - you might need it :/
<MooDoo> danfish, no you said boo and i was scared
<MooDoo> AlanBell, don't shout at them too much
<danfish> MooDoo: sorry - and after the donner und blitzen yesterday
<MooDoo> lol
<AlanBell> convincing Sir Humphrey of the value of Software Freedom
<bigcalm> :D
<AlanBell> I will also be telling them of the danger of Open Source increasing the risk of zombie invasions
<AlanBell> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Ubuntu-UK/237328659623076 4 people like this
<AlanBell> maybe facebook isn't the answer!
<MooDoo> maybe people didn't know about the page.
<BigRedS> Is that all of us who were in the meeting yesterday having now liked it?
<BigRedS> and everyone who didn't see its inception still hasn't?
<AlanBell> probably
<AlanBell> I don't know how you are supporsed to see these things
<diplo> 7 people now
<MooDoo> I've just shared it and asked people to like it so we hit the 25 we need for a vanity url
<diplo> :)
<BigRedS> I think it relies on people seeing their friends liking things
<MooDoo> diplo, 9 :)
<shauno> grumble.  making me log into facebook twice in one month.
<AlanBell> shauno: yeah, I know what you mean
<BigRedS> ach, you'll be won over yet :)
<MooDoo> #stopwhining ;)
<MooDoo> pmsl even my boss has liked the page ;)
<BigRedS> #wrongsocialnetworkingsite :)
<AlanBell> it doesn't seem to be the right tool for middle aged blokes with no social life
<shauno> that's just doubled your likes.  perhaps irc is the more effective networking ;)
<AlanBell> IRC works fine
<MooDoo> IRC works and so does facebook
<BigRedS> Ah, I have many friends who wont even email :(
<AlanBell> my teenage cousins use it loads
<shauno> BigRedS: that's the main reason I use facebook at all.  I've far too much family who have forgotten how to email
<AlanBell> they say things like "aww, I feel crap" and they get 20 comments on it
<diplo> I started on facebook as 75% of people I used to chat on MSN only use FB now
<shauno> last time I tried to ignore it, my mother got a new surname without me noticing
<diplo> And only put images on there now
<MooDoo> well i'm getting all my friends likeing the page, we'll get that decent URL yet :)
<AlanBell> diplo: but not with KDE
<diplo> lol AlanBell :)
<BigRedS> nobody uses kde anyway
<AlanBell> I don't get stuff like this http://www.facebook.com/Intel
<AlanBell> why would 1.8 million people like intel on Facebook
<BigRedS> they've got a clip with the madagascar penguins in it!
<AlanBell> if you are not an employee or parter
 * BigRedS likes intel
<shauno> 14yo girls must be a growth market for them
<AlanBell> come to think of it, I am a partner and I don't like them on Facebook
<diplo> AlanBell, a lot of these companies do a like us and you get entered to a competition
<X3N> I wonder how facebook would look if dislike was ever implemented
<X3N> like you could go round disliking evil companies etc
<X3N> -like
<AlanBell> diplo: ok, intresting
<shauno> can you make content only available to people who like you?
<BigRedS> yeah
<BigRedS> there was a whole spate of 'like this to see the rest' a while ago
<shauno> well, I'm sure intel feels better now that it has more friends than me
<BigRedS> haha
<AlanBell> buy computer, unbox, yay it works, must go make friends on facebook wtih the manufacturer of the CPU
<BigRedS> well, we are asking them to do that with their OS :)
<AlanBell> call me odd, but I don't get how that is a mainstream thing to do
<AlanBell> BigRedS: kind of, but more a community 
<AlanBell> an intel user group of PCB hdesigners I could totally understand
 * MattJ wonders at the nonsensical prices of 2.5" HDDs on the Maplin website
<shauno> I'm happy to just admit I'm too old for this and carry on with my life :)
<BigRedS> I think sometimes maplins price for amusement rather than competetiveness
<MattJ> 120GB - Â£49.99, 160GB - Â£54.99, 320GB - Â£39.99, 640GB - Â£54.99
<MattJ> I think you may be right
<Ng> MattJ: I don't think I would ever buy a disk from maplin ;)
<MattJ> The one I have now has been working fine for 3 years :)
<BigRedS> I just don't view maplin as a computer bits shop
<BigRedS> so I'd be concerned about warranties
<BigRedS> well, custoemr service, especiall wrt warranties
<dwatkins> Maplin are extremely expensive - I consider it paying for the convnience of being able to walk there to get components.
<MattJ> Ok, you know somewhere cheaper for good laptop HDDs?
<dwatkins> MattJ: Tesco were selling 250 GB external disks for about 20 GBP recently.
<MattJ> Heh
<hamitron> Maplin do replace dead parts :)
<dwatkins> I'd just look up a particular size on froogle and compare various shops, assuming they were compatible, or choose a model number which is compatible and find the cheapest.
<hamitron> but I wouldn't use them still :D
<dwatkins> hamitron: yeah, but the manufacturer warranty should allow for that also
<hamitron> yeh, I just took it into the shop and they shipped another to me
<BigRedS> yeah, the issue is going to the shop you got it from and persuading them to talk to the manufacturer
<hamitron> in some ways it was easier, because I didn't have to repackage it
<exobuzz> finally got my z68 + sandy bridge gfx working on ubuntu. horrible crashing thing it was.
<exobuzz> worked fine with h67 + sandy bridge.. something with the z68 and gpu power saving
<hamitron> exobuzz: nice
<hamitron> :)
<exobuzz> https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=38492
<dwatkins> ace, exobuzz
<lubotu3`> bugzilla.kernel.org bug 38492 in Video(DRI - Intel) "sandy bridge gpu crash on z68 chipset (related to power saving)" [High,New]
<exobuzz> nasty comment out code hack ;-)
<exobuzz> hopefully a proper fix can be found. i wonder though. is it a) kernel bug b) mb bug or c) another intel chipset bug
<dwatkins> reminds me of the issues I had with USB-attached disks
<dwatkins> still no actual fix, I just had to stop it idling
<exobuzz> got timeouts/disconnects ?
<dwatkins> exobuzz: yeah, details at http://rowla.dyndns.org/blog/2011/04/28/usb-attached-disk-hangs/
<dwatkins> oops, forgot to include the link to the comment
<exobuzz> dwatkins, could also try http://malus.exotica.org.uk/kernel/0001-reverted-b963801164618e25fbdc0cd452ce49c3628b46c8.patch which solved it for me on my server with usb and disconnects.
<exobuzz> there is a new patch on usb mailinglist instead of this manual revert also, but im still currently using this as ive not tested the new thing
<dwatkins> thanks exobuzz :) I corrected the link to the comment also
<dwatkins> I'm guessing I'd need to recompile the driver for that fix.
<exobuzz> dwatkins, yeh. heres it on bugzilla. it fixed similar problems for other people also https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=32432
<lubotu3`> bugzilla.kernel.org bug 32432 in USB "USB Disconnects / resets after commit b963801164618e25fbdc0cd452ce49c3628b46c8" [Normal,New]
<dwatkins> cheers exobuzz
<X3N> Is there no way to download a directory from the ubuntu one website?
<dwatkins> "doesn't stay idle for long" suggests it doesn't let the drive sleep much
<exobuzz> dwatkins, the launchpad bug you reference, i posted there and a couple of people told me it fixed it then
<dwatkins> nice, exobuzz
<exobuzz> dwatkins, one more thing sorry. this is a patch from one of the usb kernel guys in replacement of my revert that fixes it also for at least one person. ive not tested myself http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.linux.usb.general/48304
<dwatkins> exobuzz: no worries, I'll take a look - thanks again
<popey> WAKE UP EVERYONE!
 * JamesTait yawns
<JamesTait> No. Don't want to.
 * JamesTait goes back to sleep.
<MooDoo> popey, YESSIR!!!!
<bigcalm> popey: it's all rather futile
 * MartijnVdS snores a bit louder
<bigcalm> But then, that's life in general
<JamesTait> bigcalm: Here's me, brain the size of a planet....
 * bigcalm goes to stick his head in a pig
<Laney> oink
 * popey gets a diamond sword
<MartijnVdS> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-13949070
<directhex> i wonder if kataminey damacraft works in multiplayer...
<popey> heh
<popey> thats quite bonkers, i had never heard of that game before this week
<daubers> which game?
<MartijnVdS> kd
<popey> kataminey damacraft
<daubers> Oh dear
<directhex> katamari damacy is an institution!
<Dave2> Na, na na na na na, na na na na na na...
<directhex> and thanks to Dave2 for a useful non-goat interjection!
<daubers> directhex: It certainly is cool
<daubers> Blasted SORBS database
<directhex> Na, na na na na na, na na na na na na...
 * bigcalm resists queuing up some Katamari Damacy
 * daubers wonders what would happen if he made his backup mx server the primary mx server
<daubers> will it relay correctly, or will it fail
<directhex> ARGH
<BigRedS> depends what you've told it to do :)
<directhex> i have the katamari damacy soundtrack in my head
<bigcalm> directhex: bwuhahaha
<daubers> BigRedS: It was some time ago I set it up, it should just relay
<directhex> bigcalm, they won't leave! my brain is populated by John the Dog, Bigmouth the Duck, Yuuhi the Crow, Pe the Goat, Booby the Pig, Sexy the Cat & Nyuu the Cow
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> The sound track is fun fun fun
<directhex> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ucXQ6SamLE
<bigcalm> Damn you
<bigcalm> It does not mix well with http://soundcloud.com/ninja-tune
<directhex> is that the complete list of participants? i thought there was an elephant
<MartijnVdS> directhex: nellie the elephant?
<bigcalm> Packed her trunk and said good bye to the circus
<popey> of she went with a trumpety trump
<bigcalm> Tump trump trump
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS, one of my sons favourite songs that is......:)
<MooDoo> toy dolls version
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: reminds me of lots of drunk nights
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS, the other song is the blitzkrieg bop by the ramones, he loves singing hay ho lets go hay ho lets go
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: hah, a real music lover then :)
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS, lol it's the only two proper songs he really likes, although he sometimes in keen on iron maiden lol
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: do you have him wear dirty leather jackets as well? :P
<MooDoo> Martinp23, only when we go to rock concerts......2.5 years isn't to young for that is it?
<MooDoo> lol
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: haha :)
<danfish> afternoon all
<danfish> I've had a google,but doesanyoneknow of a way to rsync to mutiple destinations in parallel?
<andrewebdev> how do I know what version of ubuntu (32 bit or 64 bit) I'm using?
<directhex> andrewebdev, "uname -m"
<andrewebdev> thx :0
<andrewebdev> :) *
<andrewebdev> erm no idea what i686 means
<danfish> andrewebdev: 32bit
<andrewebdev> ok thx
<hamitron> ubuntu is i686 now?
<MartijnVdS> 32-bit Ubuntu, yes
<hamitron> damn
<hamitron> :(
<hamitron> most my machines are i586
<ali1234> i686 doesn't even mean anything anyway
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: you're still using first-generation Pentiums?
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: or Pentium MMXes?
<danfish> hamitron: post 10.04 it was dropped iirc
<hamitron> or K6-2
<hamitron> or VIA C3
<hamitron> or SiS 550
<hamitron> or AMD Geode
<MartijnVdS> modern VIA C3s are i686 minus SSE2-3
<MartijnVdS> afaik
<hamitron> my VIA C3 won't run i686 only code
<ali1234> so in other words not i686
<MartijnVdS> Time for 21st century hardware
<TheOpenSourcerer> My VIA C7 does run 10.04 server
<hamitron> oh well, my mind is made up now
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> no ubuntu :/
<ali1234> time to drop ubuntu
<hamitron> yeh
<MartijnVdS> funroll-loops.org?
<MartijnVdS> or whatever it was called
<hamitron> it has moved on to be something I don't need for my stuff
<MartijnVdS> http://funroll-loops.info/
<TheOpenSourcerer> LinuxFromScratch FTW!
<hamitron> TheOpenSourcerer: that is my last option
<ali1234> holy false dichotomy batman
<hamitron> well, not last
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> if you don't want to use ubuntu clearly the only choice is LFS
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/29/ubuntu-demonstrated-running-on-galaxy-tab-10-1-summarily-dubbed/
<ali1234> because nobody else could possibly make an easy to use distro
<ali1234> and certainly not without compiling it for i686
<ali1234> and requiring everyone to have 3d hardware
<hamitron> slackware is easy to use, think it is i486
<ali1234> such a thing would be unthinkable
<ali1234> even considering it would drive any programmer mad
<hamitron> 10.04 runs on i586 ok then?
<TheOpenSourcerer> My VIA C7 does run 10.04 server
<hamitron> C7 is i686
<ali1234> i bet newer versions do too
<ali1234> gcc sucks so much it hardly ever uses i686 instructions even if you tell it to
<hamitron> hehe
<hamitron> I know CentOS 5.x won't run
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> or Arch
<ali1234> for example meego is "compiled" for only core2+
<ali1234> but the only places where those instructions turn up is where they are hand coded in assembly
<ali1234> in the whole distro
<hamitron> hehe
<ali1234> and i know because i wrote a tool to disassemble every single binary in the whole thing and scan for them
<hamitron> ali1234: CentOS just fails to boot
<hamitron> dunno if it was an instruction, or just a cpu check at startup
<ali1234> one of the only packages that uses c2 instructions on meego is glibc which has hard cded assembly
<ali1234> and of course without glibc you can't run anything at all
<ali1234> none of the high level stuff uses it
<ali1234> it's almost like they want to force people to buy intel hardware if they want to use meego
<hamitron> "coded by a coder from intel"
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> well yeah
<ali1234> nearly all of meego is coded by coders from intel
<ali1234> the rest is coded by coders who used to work for nokia :)
<hamitron> I think I'd better get busy
<hamitron> got a distro to design
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> but I'm open to any suggestions, for other options
<hamitron> because I am lazy
<hamitron> ;/
<ali1234> debian
<ali1234> fedora, opensuse
<ali1234> that's about it
<hamitron> slackware
<hamitron> ;/
<ali1234> fedora and opensuse are probably i686
<ali1234> not checked
<hamitron> but even with all these, I need a custom X.org
<ali1234> i don't really care about that :)
<MartijnVdS> The world is moving on
<hamitron> MartijnVdS: and I shall let it
<hamitron> so let me be boring, and use old junk
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> i noticed earlier that ubuntu no longer holds the number 1 spot on distrowatch
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: I won't stop you :)
<ali1234> for the 3 month and shorter charts
<ali1234> it's been overtaken by mint
<hamitron> MartijnVdS: until I feel this old hardware here is useless, it will live to see another day :D
<ali1234> will be interesting to see what happens on the longer term charts
<hamitron> mint? :/
<hamitron> bah
<ali1234> yeah tbh i would not touch it
<directhex> <ali1234> the rest is coded by coders who used to work for nokia :) <-- plus subcontractors.
<hamitron> is it not just ubuntu really, with fancy graphics?
<ali1234> but they seem to have gotten all the people who dumped ubuntu when natty came out
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> directhex: yeah i include subcontractors as "working for nokia" since nokia does SO MUCH subcontracting that whole companies exist basically working for nokia and nothing else
<directhex> ali1234, i believe elop vowed to stamp out their number of subcontractors
<ali1234> yeah hence "used to"
<JGJones> Mint - isn't that based on Ubuntu or is that the distro that plan to migrate to Debian?
<directhex> they keep flitting between debian and ubuntu
<JGJones> ah. Never used it - never seen the need to really, so far ubuntu works for me.
<MooDoo> mint is nice, just installs everything that you'd normally do with ubuntu-restricted-extras
<hamitron> is there any reason there can't be 2 superusers, 1 with more power than the other?
<hamitron> say give "admin" UID=1, without write access to everything
<hamitron> then have root with UID=101
<hamitron> with traditional root powers
<hamitron> admin would have UID=0 sorry
<directhex> hamitron, so many things hardcode checks for uid=0
<directhex> hamitron, i mean, sure, selinux could probably do it. but bleh
<hamitron> my reasoning is so could have a seperate OS filesystem in place, with power over ubuntu packages installed
<hamitron> I suppose another option is a chroot jail for ubuntu
<hamitron> in say /usr/ubuntu
<hamitron> idea been so could have an OS for all my machines, but the option to use ubuntu "stuff" on the machines that can handle it
<hamitron> could make the base slackware, then call it slackuntu
<hamitron> no harm in my trying, be good fun ;)
<brobostigon> afternoonings everyone.
<MooDoo> brobostigon, hullo :)
<brobostigon> MooDoo: hello,:)
<em> afternoon brobostigon
 * brobostigon has just got a first, the first person to respond this afternoon.
<brobostigon> em: afternoonings.
<brobostigon> ie, MooDoo .
<brobostigon> the first was MooDoo,
 * brobostigon gets MooDoo a beer.
 * TheOpenSourcerer coughs in brobostigon 's direction
<MooDoo> brobostigon,  :)
 * brobostigon gets one for TheOpenSourcerer also.
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> hook norton, haymaker, ok?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Old Hooky if you have it.
 * brobostigon looks,
<brobostigon> TheOpenSourcerer: only one bottle :(
<directhex> apparently TheOpenSourcerer likes local banburyish ale
<brobostigon> hook norton-ish real ale*
<Laney> fake ale mmm
<TheOpenSourcerer> "bottle"? You mean you don't have a barrel of 'bright' lying around then?
<brobostigon> TheOpenSourcerer: not of, old, no, sorry.
<directhex> brobostigon, if they can call oxford airport "london oxford airport", i'm pretty sure hook norton can count as banbury
<brobostigon> directhex: quite, oxford is nowhere near london, peoplewould get a rather huge shock.
<tombrough> why is it when I ask a commercial enterprise a straight question like "How much would it cost to rent your venue for a day?" they come back with an enthusiastic and interested tone email that tells you everything BUT how much it would cost to rent the venue for a day.
<directhex> tombrough, they want to play the haggling game
<directhex> brobostigon, stanstead is pretty far from london too...
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: so are Luton and Gatwick... ;)
<brobostigon> directhex: true, also, yes.
<directhex> ... as is gatwick. ffs!
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: also, yes.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: they have this "problem" here as well. Maastricht Airport is now "Maastricht/Aachen" (which is an hour away)
<tombrough> hey its a linux event run by local volunteers who are not a registered charity .... how much money do you think we have to spend?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: Rotterdam became Rotterdam/Den Haag
<directhex> however, simcity taught me to always locate your airport far from your city, due to pollution and decreased land values!
<MartijnVdS> etc.
<MartijnVdS> directhex: tell that to San Diego
<directhex> MartijnVdS, polluted & with low land values!
<MartijnVdS> directhex: hm, true true
<Laney> london schiphol airport
<directhex> i'm waiting for london manchester airport.
<MartijnVdS> Laney: well.. from 2013 you can take a 4-hour train ride from Schiphol to St Pancras
<MartijnVdS> Laney: so it's not THAT far-fetched
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ouch, yes, reminds me of lubeck airport, no more than a tent, and ryanair, call it hamburg/lubeck, even though, it is several hours drive away.
<directhex> or london birmingham? it's not much slower taking the train from gatwick to london as birmingham to london
<DJones> directhex: It should be London Ringway Airport (going back to its old name)
<Ng> lubeck isn't *that* bad, or at least it isn't these days :)
<brobostigon> Ng: it was,lasttime i was there.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Sounds like Good Old Microsoft's Cloud based Office 365 is neither cloudy or simple: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/google/complexity-of-office-365-is-a-good-thing-for-google-apps/3055
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: also, Girona/Barcelona
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i dont know that one,
<MartijnVdS> Brussels/Zaventem
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: you are more welltraveled in airports it seems, compared.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I've been to some conferences ... :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i can imagine, :)
<directhex> i don't remember last time i used msoffice
<directhex> i definitely never *paid* for it
<directhex> wifey bought it for a special discount rate in 2008ish, i think
<MartijnVdS> I can get it at a discounted price
<MartijnVdS> and then I can use it as long as I work for my current employer
<MartijnVdS> strange licenses
<directhex> MartijnVdS, the new version of their "ultimate steal" license is much worse than the old one
<directhex> i.e. previously you needed to be eligible at purchase time, and got office ultimate. now you get office academic, which expires when you are no longer .ac.uk
<directhex> wow, they also increased the price of windows 7 to Â£71 academic. i paid half that.
<MooDoo> i've got ms technet so i get it for a yearly fee
<MooDoo> well not that i'm renewing this year :)
<popey> MooDoo: you personally pay for technet?
<directhex> what's technet?
<MooDoo> popey, i did, but not renewing this year as i have use for it now
<MooDoo> directhex, a subscription to their products.....
<MooDoo> directhex, 120 a year for windows 7, office, server etc etc etc and you get 2 licnsed per product
<popey> golly
<popey> didnt think anyone paid for it
<popey> thought everyone got their employer to
<MooDoo> popey, i was feeling poorly at the time, had a brain fart :)
<bigcalm> Indeed. Horay for the MS Partner Pack
<MooDoo> now i don't have any use for it, especially don't want to renew with baby due in 2 months
<bigcalm> Miss-read as: MooDoo> now i don't have any use for it, especially don't want to renew with baby
<MooDoo> lol
<MooDoo> *chuckle*
<brobostigon> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/29/number_plate/   lol
<MattJ> Funny, I was wondering exactly that the other day :)
<MattJ> 1) whether such things were allowed [apparently not] 2) who gets to decide 3) how to automate the decision
<BigRedS> that's alarmingly close to the DVLA not viewing itself as infallible
<BigRedS> good work
<AlanBell> afternoon all
 * AlanBell has been having a good afternoon in the Home Office
<AlanBell> warning them of the danger of open source in the event of a zombie invasion
<brobostigon> afternoonings AlanBell
<brobostigon> lol
<BigRedS> haha
<AlanBell> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Ubuntu-UK/237328659623076 need 8 more people to like that for a vanity URL
<AlanBell> so if you are a facebook fetishist then please help us out :)
<brobostigon> AlanBell: i had a thought, for our achievement list, mumble, and vnc'd live system, from global jam.
<AlanBell> ah, mentioned that for the quiz night, but not the global jam, good point
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> global jam, was the test, to see if it worked.
<AlanBell> how did people cope with trains before mobile broadband?
<brobostigon> douglas adams,
<bigcalm> I used to read books
<DOOD> hi can i have some help please
<DOOD> hello
<directhex> don't ask to ask. just ask.
<brobostigon> what is the issue? ottherwise how do we know if we canhelp, or not.
<directhex> ARGH
<directhex> not just mibbit, it seems
<brobostigon> hmm,
<brobostigon> new ubuntu one, android file app-
<Rafz^> Evening all
<brobostigon> evening Rafz^
<Rafz^> Quite amusing evening for me, someone from work has got the lovesan worm and trying to get rid ^_^
<MartijnVdS> lovesan? that's very old, right?
<Rafz^> yeah it's really old, some people don't run windows update for years and years though
<MartijnVdS> ah, yes, it's the same as "Blaster"
<Rafz^> yes
<MartijnVdS> Rafz^: did you point and laugh? :P
<Rafz^> yes
<Rafz^> I was going to lecture but I thought it best to just smile and enjoy the bottle of wine I got for the trouble
<MartijnVdS> also, set up automatic updating
<Rafz^> certainly
<MartijnVdS> 8 years worth of updates.. that must take a week to install, right?
<Rafz^> its hilarious, she said "I just close that box when it asks me to update" to which i replied "for the past decade?"
<brobostigon> lol
<Rafz^> quite, well the issue is at the moment is im trying to get the updates on another system so I can move them without connecting to my network but then again i think i dont have storage big enough
<MartijnVdS> Rafz^: just get the service packs
<MartijnVdS> Rafz^: they include every update up to that point
<MartijnVdS> Rafz^: and are ~300M-1G each I think
<MartijnVdS> I think they fit on CDs
<Rafz^> oh well that isn't so bad, let me try and dig out a couple of DVDs (afk 2mins)
<Rafz^> re
<popey> hehe
<popey> a virus...
<popey> from the past!
<MartijnVdS> popey: "Blaster from the Past(er)"
<popey> heh
<Rafz^> infact i dont really understand because it's a netbook; it can't even be that old
<Rafz^> lol QQ
<Rafz^> Thank you for your interest in obtaining updates from our site.
<Rafz^> To use this site, you must be running Microsoft Internet Explorer 5 or later.
<MartijnVdS> Rafz^: check which version of XP it has, with which Service Packs
<popey> o_O
<popey> retro
<Rafz^> sp3!
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://i.imgur.com/OpAho.jpg
<Rafz^> Erm, last updates installed on 16 june
<MartijnVdS> Rafz^: this year?
<MartijnVdS> Rafz^: there's an SP4 and 5
<Rafz^> yeah!
<MartijnVdS> (for XP)
<MartijnVdS> well maybe not 5
<MartijnVdS> but 4
<Rafz^> dling now, the issue is that no matter what I tried to do whilst at work offline: edit registry; end process; search, it was all stopped by the worm so I'm not too sure now. I think perhaps it may be a virus that has installed some dodgey anti-virus program and is "faking" finding the worm and demanding monies to get rid of it.
<MartijnVdS> could be
<MartijnVdS> best option is: backup files, reinstall
<MartijnVdS> you never know what's "safe" in cases like that
<Rafz^> Yeah, figures - was afraid of that.
<dwatkins> Malware Bytes is pretty good at finding trojans
<AlanBell> yay, blender should be installable in oneiric today
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: installable != running properly :P
<nigelb> MartijnVdS: step by step :P
<AlanBell> it will be perfect
<AlanBell> and work with openshot
<AlanBell> I appear to have sneezed near that box or something so unity doesn't start of course
<nigelb> lol
<Rafz^> Why did you guys first install Unbuntu?
<MartijnVdS> because it sucked less than Debian at the time :)
<dutchie> spinny compiz cube!
<dutchie> and wobbly windows
<Rafz^> And what languages can you gice code in?
<JGJones> um...I installed warty warthog...in fact I actually replaced windows with it - decided the best way to learn linux was to go cold turkey - no dual boot etc.
<MartijnVdS> JGJones: 4.10 \o/
<daubers> lo
<brobostigon> becaue i undertood its installer, unlike debians properly at the time, and halittle energy, and couldnt dealwith debian's installer.
<JGJones> prior to this, I've played with mandrake and redhat so I can't remember why I installed Ubuntu or even how I heard of it :)
 * MartijnVdS went to the first "UDS" in Barcelona in 2004-12 :)
<Rafz^> "learn linux", how far have you got with that JGJones:?
<MartijnVdS> it wasn't called that back then
<JGJones> Rafz^, Well I'm still using ubuntu exclusively, now on 11.10 not 4.10! :) The original PC that I installed 4.10 on is now a 10.04 server in the garage. I also work with linux servers in jobs etc so it was a worthwhile jump :)
<brobostigon> my first was debian,late 90's, thenn suse, the freebsd, then debian, then a mixture, as now, between ubuntu and debian.
<daubers> Anyone know how I can contact the Lightning devs?
<MartijnVdS> daubers: sa in Thunderbird calendar thingy?
<JGJones> I even replace OSX with Ubuntu on my macbook.
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Yeah, that one
<MartijnVdS> daubers: probably in the Mozilla bugzilla
<daubers> MartijnVdS: I'm trying to modify it, hence was after a dev I could ask a question :)
<Rafz^> Sorry, I only installed a week ago & i am going cold turkey too, I just am struggling to remember why I did it.
<MartijnVdS> daubers: use the lazyweb (twitter) :)
<JGJones> Rafz^, don't worry...to be honest I think you're probably getting it easier ;-) I learnt a LOT about editing xconf files!
<MartijnVdS> JGJones: which you don't need anymore ;)
<Rafz^> Well, I just sit here looking at IRC and using the mp3 player and that's about all I know how to do. I isntalled python in some vein hope that I'd actually manage to learn some after watching hours of tutorials and im sure for just a few seconds someone said how it was better to learn to code on an OS like this...perhaps that's why I swapped.
<JGJones> Rafz^, but cold turkey is best way to learn. It'll be annoying, you'll have the "Windows" way of doing as an automatic reflex etc - it's just a matter of unlearning that and doing it the linux way.
<JGJones> Rafz^, well...I still can't code - you don't need to code :)
 * MartijnVdS writes Perl for money, python for fun
<Rafz^> What's the difference in the linux way? I mean I am just using is like a mac with the applications on the side instead of bottom :o
<JGJones> although I do keep telling myself I gotta learn to code...I did enjoy it back in uni (Pascal(!) and I think perl...not sure, been years)
<JGJones> Rafz^, you coming to Ubuntu from Windows or OSX?
<Rafz^> Windows
<JGJones> Why did you want to learn to use linux - ie going cold turkey?
<Rafz^> I liked the literature that I read; I liked the fact that it was open-source; I liked the fact that many great things have come from it; i like the morality in it
<JGJones> My reason for doing it was that I wanted to expand my IT skills to include linux and I can't work with linux if I don't use it myself - ie break my own system, fix it etc. I learnt about open source etc afterward :)
<Rafz^> Do you think that now it is just too user friendly to command some of that investigation that you had to put in?
<JGJones> Rafz^, although with 4.10 - I used command line a lot, even with no X. With 11.04 - when I tell people how to fix something - I tell him how to do so using GUI methods (which for me is a sure sign of how much ubuntu have improved...I avoid telling people how to use the terminal
<JGJones> Rafz^, so I guess...if you wanna learn linux, it's a good idea to play with the terminal. Start with the basics - ie if you want to move a file, using mv, cp, ls etc
<JGJones> as well as a few others like apt-get install app etc.
<JGJones> keep it simple until you're more comfy with that and expand from there perhaps.
<Rafz^> that's a nice idea
 * StevenR hrrms and wishes the installer would progress (it's a VM, with a usb disk and a local-disk iso of natty... but it won't progress beyond the "make sure you have some disk space" phase
 * Rafz^ smiles
<Rafz^> Community is good also! Wouldn't get this with windows.
<JGJones> Ah that's the other reason that got me stuck on Ubuntu...the community.
<JGJones> The folks in here does smell a bit, but they're friendly ;-)
<JGJones> The forums was fantastic in the early days for me too.
<JGJones> Ubuntu's Code of Conduct is another appeal too.
<Rafz^> Yeah I had a look at that
<Rafz^> brb smoke
<Rafz^> re
<Safiyyah> popey did you make it to the post office?
<czajkowski> hmmm
<czajkowski> there is a fedora sticker on Gorgamon
<czajkowski> one of them sticky icky ones that does not like to come off
<AlanBell> how could that possibly have got there I wonder
<Rafz^> Just took an IQ test got 117 is that bad or good?
<bigcalm> That's 17 points above average
<Rafz^> oh
<Rafz^> thats not great
 * brobostigon is in the mid 140's.
<jpds> Rafz^: Better than being below?
<Rafz^> 140-160 is genius right?
<brobostigon> no idea, i dont know, nor care.
<brobostigon> Rafz^: 180's 200+ is genius.
<Rafz^> ahh ok
<AlanBell> no, 200+ is breakdown of the scale
<brobostigon> ok, sorry, i misunderstood then.
<AlanBell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_reference_chart
<brobostigon> Rafz^: according to those scales, you are above normal.
<AlanBell> or in more detail http://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/IQtable.aspx
<brobostigon> thank you AlanBell.
<AlanBell> "You can see why presently nobody should be able to get a deviation IQ higher than 195 (or 201 on the 16 SD scale).  There are not enough people in the world to 'beat'."
<brobostigon> lol, quite,
<AlanBell> there is a facebook IQ app which is I think supposed to be fairly good
<AlanBell> did it when facebook was very very young and all the Lotus business partners were trying out this fangled social networking thing
<brobostigon> they did an IQ, within the forms theygave me, for info on me, for my doctors, for aspergers diag.
<Azelphur> I never did an IQ test for my diag, must have changed \o/
<brobostigon> Azelphur: maybe.
<AlanBell> my cleverest friend is now maco
<brobostigon> AlanBell: how brainy is he/she ?
<AlanBell> she
<Azelphur> afaik unless you have an IQ test specifically tailored for aspergers the results are totally invalid btw
<Azelphur> speak of thed evil :P
<AlanBell> hi maco
<AlanBell> was just talking about you but you were not here :)
<AlanBell> you are my cleverest friend on facebook
<AlanBell> we were discussing IQ tests
<brobostigon> Azelphur: that is probebly wht they did,
<maco> oh dear
<Azelphur> yea :)
<Azelphur> I'm seriously thinking about buying a second dedicated server
<maco> those were just created to draw dividing lines for mental disabilities. beyond that it's not really so meaningful
<Azelphur> I optimized my first one and added 25% extra capacity, it filled within an hour
<AlanBell> maco: you thrashed me with your jolly clever 142
<maco> (the creator of the first IQ tests said they shouldn't be used to try to extrapolate beyond that)
<maco> AlanBell: hmmm?
<maco> and where did i get a 142?
<brobostigon> Azelphur: it was around a hundred pages, for me too fillout.and then some for my mum and dad.
<AlanBell> I scored a measly 141
<Azelphur> ouch \o/
<AlanBell> maco: facebook IQ app, it shows you the IQ of all your friends who have taken it
<AlanBell> bit odd, but there you go
<maco> i dont recall taking it, but ok
<brobostigon> Azelphur: quite, a few i mrked as invalid stupid questions though, as unanswereable.
<maco> when i was actually tested in person it was a bit lower than that (testing to get into school's gifted program)
<AlanBell> http://apps.facebook.com/iqtests/index.php
<maco> SRSLY?
<maco> We can't display this content while you're viewing Facebook over a secure connection (https).
<maco> Would you like to temporarily switch to a regular connection (http) to use this app?
<maco> You will have a secure connection upon your next login.
<AlanBell> hmm, I thought I had checked the always use https box
<bigcalm> You did, that's why you're seeing the message
<bigcalm> Apps are hosted by 3rd parties, not by Facebook
<AlanBell> "You have temporarily turned off secure browsing in order to access an unsupported application. To enable secure browsing again, please log out and log in again."
<AlanBell> bigcalm: yeah, I understand the architecture
<maco> AlanBell: wondering why you didnt get prompted though?
<bigcalm> Ah, ok. Then my text is for maco :)
<AlanBell> dunno, I don't recall being asked if I wanted to temporarily turn it off
<brobostigon> and i explained my logic behind not being able to answer some of the questions they gave me. and they asked me again, rephrased.
<directhex> not much point to adult iq tests
<xapel> is it possible to migrate from windows mail to evolution?
<directhex> xapel, i don't know. possibly if you export your windows mail to something else like eudora format. generally, pop3 sucks for this
<brobostigon> good night, sleep well, everyone.
<xapel> directhex, the email is a gmail account. I just need to export the folders. Any ideas?
<directhex> xapel, if it's a gmail account, then your mail is still stored on google's servers, not in windows mail. right?
<brobostigon> yes, you could just point evolution at google's imap server?
<directhex> brobostigon, assuming he was using gogle's imap support and not their pop3 support
<directhex> http://www.linuxloop.com/2008/01/06/gmail-evolution-and-imap/
<brobostigon> directhex: true, hmmm.
<brobostigon> good night eveyone,
<xapel> directhex, yes the mail is still on google's servers, but the person has created some folders in her mail client and copied mails there. I want the same folders in evolution with the same contents
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Paul Mellors] Tweetdeck + Ubuntu Natty + 64bit - http://paulmellors.blogspot.com/2011/06/tweetdeck-ubuntu-natty-64bit.html
<Laney> Just had to drop everything and dash across Nottingham on our bikes at top speed
<Laney> isn't geocaching fun? :-)
#ubuntu-uk 2011-06-30
<StevenR> yay. Ubuntu Natty onna 1.8" usb harddisk.
<AlanBell> morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> see you shortly.
<TheOpenSourcerer> wrong room ;-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> ttfn
<hoover> morning all
<popey> Morning all!
<gord> epp, sore throat, must be the dreaded ubuflu
<gord> mornin'
<popey> yeah, I have that too, and I'm not even there!
<popey> can you get ubuflu via irc?
<gord> its very contagious and we are a tech orientated people, i would say of course!
<diplo> Morning all
<exobuzz> chief popey
<exobuzz> captain gord
<exobuzz> et al
 * exobuzz has some morning chip music .. http://freemusicarchive.org/music/4mat/Blip_Festival_2011-4mat/
 * popey updates https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/NextMeeting
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<optimusP> hay, i want to shift from lucid to 11.04, how should i backup the packages?
<popey> Happy birthday bigcalm
<bigcalm> Thank you popey :)
<MartijnVdS> optimusP: just upgrade to maverick (10.10) first, then to natty (11.04)
<bigcalm> I shall be 0x20 for the day
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: congratifications :)
<bigcalm> Thank you MartijnVdS :)
<optimusP> MartijnVdS, i want to switch to studio, will that matter?
<xapel> Can I import csv contacts from windows mail into evolution?
<bigcalm> Probabbly, if it supports a csv import
<bigcalm> Interoperability, is the name of the game
<bigcalm> ~ the game I want to play with you
<MooDoo> morning all
<bigcalm> Hi MooDoo
<MooDoo> hows it going bigcalm ?
<bigcalm> Feeling old(er)
<bigcalm> Working late into the night without any MineCraft makes Jake a dull boy
<popey> :D
<MooDoo> lol
<popey> â¥ minecraft â¥
<MooDoo> who;s played with the big ball thing yet?
<popey> nah
<MartijnVdS> Katamari Damacy?
<popey> not really interested in that
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS, yeah
<bigcalm> Humf, 1.7 isn't out yet
<daubers> Morning
<bigcalm> Afternoon
<MooDoo> Evening
<MartijnVdS> Night
<bigcalm> Is tesco.com's grocery section a little br0ked atm?
<selinuxium> Morning all.   o/
<wintellect> hello selinuxium
<selinuxium> How are things?
<selinuxium> Anyone using unify every day? I am and quite enjoying it.
<bigcalm> Unify?
<gord> thunderbird 5 with the conversation plugin is really nice, think i'll replace evo with that
<BigRedS> conversation plugin?
<gord> it makes it act like gmail
<BigRedS> ahh, the sort-of-threading
<gord> threading is a pain often, especially with longer threads
<BigRedS> yeah, I've a few where the indentation in the message list is longer than my monitor is wide...
<bigcalm> I like it for my business email
<gord> i'm using it with tabs, which is nice too - normally not a huge fan of tabs
<jpds> gord: That explains the 10 Firefox windows.
<gord> jpds, no no no, i have ONE firefox window with one, maybe two tabs. i'm very tidy!
<selinuxium> Unity... sorry big
<BigRedS> ahh, yeah I'm using it at work
<BigRedS> not sure I 'enjoy' it, but i've nothing against it
<MooDoo> anyone seen google+ yet?
<bigcalm> Not me
<bigcalm> How does one use dig to aquire all DNS records for a given domain?
<MooDoo> dig @nameserver domainname axfr                   i think
<bigcalm> Yay, thank you :)
<MooDoo> no worries
<BigRedS> bigcalm: it's entirely likely that the nameserver wont let you axfr though
<bigcalm> Dear VM SuperHub, you are a PoS.
<bigcalm> Lost lan connections as well that time
<BigRedS> bigcalm: I wrote this to guess subdomains configured on a domain: https://github.com/BigRedS/avi-utils/blob/master/subdomains
<BigRedS> it's a bit, uh, crude
<bigcalm> BigRedS: cheers, dig showed sub domains
<Multivitamin> .
<dogmatic69_> o/
<dogmatic69_> ubuntu has crashed 3 times already today :(
<dogmatic69_> something really wrong here
<dogmatic69_> on boot the load average is 8+ and cpu usage ~50%
<BigRedS> dogmatic69_: what's a 'crash'?
<BigRedS> and what's your memory usage like ( free -m )?
<dogmatic69_> mouse stops working, kb etc
<dogmatic69_> freezes
<BigRedS> can you ssh in to it?
<gord> X seems to like doing that on O
<dogmatic69_> right now... Mem:          8000       1937       6063
<gord> its fun
<BigRedS> the load is a combination of CPU, Memory and I/O, so if CPU is down then memory or I/O are logical next suspects
<dogmatic69_> BigRedS: no need to ssh, im on it now :D its a desktop
<BigRedS> Ah, but once it's frozen
<dogmatic69_> well it does funny things
<dogmatic69_> last one i was typing cd /some/p<tab> and then it did ppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp and carried on till i rebooted
<dogmatic69_> last night i was chopping wood in mc, and then it froze, but guy was still walking forward chopping
<JGJones> Hmm apparently I have a Google+ invite and I go to plus.google.com and it tells me they're overcapacity now...bah...
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<BigRedS> JGJones: yeah, apparently more space next week :/
<dogmatic69_> sup brobostigon
<BigRedS> dogmatic69_: hmm, peculiar. I'd ssh in when it does that and see what's going on
<brobostigon> morning dogmatic69_, nought much. you?
<dogmatic69_> BigRedS: no other pc to ssh in with
<BigRedS> ah :(
<dogmatic69_> brobostigon: fighting a broken ubuntu install :?
<dogmatic69_> its 10.10 btw
<brobostigon> dogmatic69_: whats broken?
<dogmatic69_> i just uninstalled a few thigns, see if that helps
<dogmatic69_> brobostigon: keeps locking up and then have to reboot
<dogmatic69_> seeming very sluggish too
<brobostigon> dogmatic69_: ok,what does dmesg, and syslog, and xorg.log say, ? any indications ?
<dogmatic69_> htop says 350 tasks running, load 4.x, one cpu at 15% others at 5%
<dogmatic69_> holly shit balls
<dogmatic69_> tail -f /var/logs/* -> http://bin.cakephp.org/view/1944363349
<AlanBell> ahem
<bigcalm> !language
<lubotu3`> Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family-friendly, polite, and professional.
<dogmatic69_> it does not stop doing that
<dogmatic69_> :/
<bigcalm> Have a look at top
<bigcalm> You'll see what's taking the most
 * bigcalm suspects xorg
<dogmatic69_> npviewer.bin
<dogmatic69_> 19% cpu
<bigcalm> FLASH!
<dogmatic69_> aaahhhhhhaaaaaaaa!
<bigcalm> Aaaaaah, he'll kill every one of us
<MooDoo> Gordons alive?!?!?!?!
<dogmatic69_> saviour of the universe </not>
<dogmatic69_> not doing anything, just chatting here... cpu upto 40% now
<bigcalm> Do you have a web browser open?
<dogmatic69_> one tab in ff for the paste
<dogmatic69_> and chatzilla
<dogmatic69_> ok
<dogmatic69_> why sendmail
<hoover> happy birthday bigcalm
<dogmatic69_> there is loads of sendmail processes running and starting/stopping
<bigcalm> Thank you hoovie :)
<dogmatic69_> killed the sendmail stuff and load is down to 1.x
<dogmatic69_> 0.9 now
<dogmatic69_> 0.7... so that was doing crazy stuff
<dogmatic69_> now that tail -f of logs is not continually showing new stuff
<dogmatic69_> i installed sendmail-bin the other day to send emails with php
<AlanBell> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Ubuntu-UK/237328659623076 3 more likes to the vanity URL
<dogmatic69_> load back to 0.01 with ff open and flash playing
<dogmatic69_> how do i sort out this sendmail thing now? i need that for testing my email sending scripts
<hoover> dogmatic69_: what's your problem?
<dogmatic69_> hoover: seems like, ive installed sendmail-bin for sending mails in php, and that was doing crazy stuff... doing tail -f /var/logs/* produced something like http://bin.cakephp.org/view/1944363349
<dogmatic69_> millions of logs per second, load was 8+ and then would just crash after about 30min
<dogmatic69_> i killed sendmail and now things seem stable again.
<hoover> are you on ubuntu or some other distro?
<dogmatic69_> ubuntu 10.10
<dogmatic69_> latest updates
<hoover> I'd recommend postfix
<hoover> it's a drop-in replacement for sendmail
<dogmatic69_> and php mail() will work?
<hoover> yep
<hoover> do you have php mail() set up to use a local mta?
<hoover> like "localhost"?
<dogmatic69_> idk
<hoover> I think I remember php mail() can also send mail by itself
<dogmatic69_> i just did apt-get install sendmail-bin and then it worked
<hoover> anyway, get rid of sendmail first and replace it with postfix
<dogmatic69_> done
<hoover> then, from the command line, try sending a testmail
<hoover> as root:
<hoover> /etc/init.d/postfix restart # just to make sure it's running
<hoover> then
<hoover> date | mail -s "test mail with postfix" <youemail@server.com>
<hoover> I think you can also use stop postfix ; start postfix with 10.10 (upstart)
<hoover> if sending mails from the command line works, so should php mail().
<Mez> psst... Google+ ftw
 * brobostigon wonders when his invitation, is goin to come along.
 * hoover signed up for an invite yesterday, too
<Mez> <-- has an account and can invite people :D
<hoover> while I'd love to see fb dead as much as the next guy, I doubt g+ will achieve that
<shauno> judging by buzz & orkut, it won't take much to be considered a success
<hoover> true ,-)
<hoover> ;-)
<brobostigon> Mez: yes please. :)
 * brobostigon gets Mez a crate of beer.
 * MooDoo is waiting for his invite his mate sent, they are throttling invites though
<Mez> MooDoo: I can invite instantly :d
<MooDoo> Mez, :( pah! :)
<MooDoo> merriam, :)
<MooDoo> Mez, :)
<Mez> MooDoo: you having a stroke?
<MooDoo> Mez, yes sorry :)  instantly, when you said that i died :)
<shauno> hm.  tmux & PuTTY are a bit of an odd combo. somewhere along the line, something's replacing all utf characters with dead puppies.  this doesn't make me happy
<diplo> I am interested in G+ if you have spares :)
 * BigRedS is too :)
<popey> shame G+ doesn't work on google apps accounts â¹
<shauno> heh, I heard that
<shauno> seems a little awkward
<popey> AIUI they use different infrastructure
<popey> so not surprising that new crack isnt deployed to the apps servers
 * dogmatic69_ has google+
<BigRedS> Hm. I've migrated a bunch of users from one box to another by moving the /etc/[passwd|shadow] entries. I've run chpasswd to make all the passwords good, and pwck and pwconv to make sure there's no issues with hashing etc. but i still can't su to any user, or log in as any user
<bigcalm> I think I still have a million wave invites
<bigcalm> Oh well :)
<BigRedS> auth.log is pretty empty - just logs a connection opened and then immediately closed
<popey> heh wave
<popey> retro
<BigRedS> anyone got any ideas what i've mised?
<shauno> do they have valid shells?
<BigRedS> d'oh
<BigRedS> :/
<BigRedS> they're all /bin/false :)
<shauno> don't think that'd affect su, but it'd affect regular logins
<BigRedS> mm, normally su doesn't mind
<BigRedS> I've just set one of them to /bin/bash and I can su to it now
<BigRedS> but if I switch it back it reverts to just not letting me su
<ShawnBeasley> Can anyone here answer a question about dpkg-reconfigure exim4-config in ubuntu 10.04 LTS. It seems that the configuration  written here for MAIN_RELAY_TO_DOMAINS= is broke.
<ShawnBeasley> Normally, I would want to leave this blank, so I thought.
<hoover> BigRedS: have you checked /etc/shells?
<shauno> are you using su -
<ShawnBeasley> But, I can only send mails via Exim4 when it looks like MAIN_RELAY_TO_DOMAINS=*
<bigcalm> Dear VM, go die in a fire. Grr
<shauno> hm, su isn't letting me switch to accounts with /bin/false either
<ShawnBeasley> Is anyone even using Exim? It seem the mail server of choice is postfix.
<shauno> can't answer for anyone else, but postfix here
<BigRedS> hoover: aha! I hadn't :)
 * BigRedS gets more coffee
<BigRedS> this is the problem with rushed migrations... they're rushed
<bam> Hi. Does anyone have knowledge of the ext filesystem? I am trying to figure out how to find the directory file from the info in superblock and group descriptor block.
<hoover> BigRedS: indeed ;-)
<brobostigon> the google+ circles, is certainly closer to the persmissions, i think facebook should have.
<brobostigon> permissions*
<MartijnVdS> Google Plus doesn't work for me :(
<MartijnVdS> even though I have been invited
<brobostigon> :(
<brobostigon> the android app, is pretty slick.
<brobostigon> shame about the widget.
<MooDoo> brobostigon, played with the new skype for android yet?  video calling?
<brobostigon> it is silly, like the buzz widget.
<brobostigon> MooDoo: i havent, no.
<shauno> hm.  where are the g+ invites coming from?
<brobostigon> shauno: i got mine from Mez.
<dutchie> MartijnVdS: google apps account?
<MartijnVdS> dutchie: that's one problem, but it doesn't work on my normal account either
<brobostigon> the new google bars, etc, are in ipv6.google.com.
<shauno> I love when you have an escalation path 8 people deep .. and none of them answer the phone :)
<directhex> ring ring ring ring ring ring ring bananaphone
<shauno> I really want to send an email saying "when it beeps, press the green button".  but they're in malaysia, so I've no idea how rude it'd sound
<nigelb> shauno: wow 8 people not answering the phone sounds like fun
<shauno> totally.  highlight of my morning
<nigelb> but wait, if they're in malaysia, it should be working hours
<shauno> 7-8pm I think
<nigelb> ah, probably commute time.
<shauno> atleast, I think they share singapore's timezone.  if not, they're not gonna be far either side of
<ShawnBeasley> can anyone field my question about the exim configuration?
<dogmatic69_> JGJones: I believe i have sent you one.
<hoover> ShawnBeasley: sorry, I know my way around postfix and sendmail a bit, but no exim...
<ShawnBeasley> hoover: yeah this seems to be the consensus :(
<ShawnBeasley> I do not know what is inviting about Exim, maybe just the name or the fact that it seems impossible.
<hoover> again, sorry, but I think postfix is so much easier to configure
<hoover> hehe
<hoover> it's probably a question of what you're used to
 * hoover once owned the 1,000 plus pages sendmail manual
<hoover> subtitled "operating dental powertools on yourself"
<hoover> oh, the o'reilly book of course, silly me
<hoover> m4 macros, config files that looked like modem line noise... fun.
<dwatkins> does anyone have any stats on what percentage of Ubuntu or Linux installations use a 64-bit kernel, pelase?
<ali1234> http://popcon.ubuntu.com/
<ShawnBeasley> hoover: Understand. Thanks anyway
<brobostigon> that is however inaccurate, as you have to have popularity-contest installed.
<ali1234> all surveys are innacurate
<brobostigon> quite,
<hamitron> don't even seperate i586 and i686
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> or lower ones
<hamitron> yet there is a ZX Spectrum?
<hamitron> ;/
<shauno> the ZX does appear to be flatlining
<hoover> laters all
<hamitron> shauno: such a shame ;)
<hamitron> I wonder what "unknown" is?
<shauno> perhaps the popcon version simply isn't on the c90 spectrum builds for space reasons :p
<JGJones> dogmatic69, ta - got your email :)
<dogmatic69_> nice
<dogmatic69_> is it working for you?
<andatche> anyone managed to get a google+ account yet?
<brobostigon> yes,
<Laney> stupid google
<Laney> what an irritating way of generating hype
<andatche> brobostigon: any chance you could try the "share an item via email" trick to my gmail address to see if I can then get an account?
<andatche> it's apparently working again
<brobostigon> andatche: whts your email ?
<andatche> brobostigon: pm :)
<andatche> TY
<brobostigon> ok,
<Laney> is this some hack to get an invite?
<andatche> yup
<Laney> or just to flush one out?
<andatche> if it works, I will obviously share :)
<shauno> I kinda fancy playing with plus, but I don't actually have any friends, so not sure it'll work so well :)
<bigcalm> popey: ping
<popey> bigcalm: pong
<bigcalm> popey: mc server needs updating ;)
<DJones> bigcalm: Just because 1.7 is out :)
<bigcalm> Correct!
<JGJones> ....
<JGJones> did you have to say that?
<JGJones> I resisted the urge to fire it up all day just fine.
<JGJones> bah
 * JGJones switch to doc editing on tablet...THAT can't play MC :)
<shauno> keep on resisting. let someone else find the next 5 patches first :)
<bigcalm> Just don't right click on sheep with an empty hand
<bigcalm> I guess that'll be fixed in 1.7.1
<JGJones> I saw that...worst advice to give anyone.
<bigcalm> (crashes the game)
<JGJones> Don't = DO IT!
<bigcalm> Yep
<bigcalm> I started a new world to see what would happen
<JGJones> What about pistons lifting above 128 block limit at sky?
<bigcalm> Give me time!
<bigcalm> Actually, I'm waiting for popey to update his server
<bigcalm> ;)
<bigcalm> 1) I can't connect until he does
<bigcalm> 2) /give is simpler to do in SMP
<popey> heheh
<JGJones> That's true...surprised there's no /give mod for SP (well probably there is, but I've not looked :))
<popey> 2011-06-30 15:03:09 [INFO] Starting minecraft server version Beta 1.7
<JGJones> well get on with it now bigcalm! ;-)
<bigcalm> :P
<bigcalm> Once mc.net returns
<directhex> mc login server broken?
<directhex> minecraft 1.7 out, and it still ships the broken old lwjgl ;)
<popey> âº
<shauno> JGJones: 'single player commands' is your single-player /give (and moar)
<directhex> good job i don't have a displayport-based monitor on my laptop
<brobostigon> google+ is showing as a possible sync source, for google apps, ie, my ubuntu-cym.org email.
<bigcalm> Just noticed how messed up my connection was this morning by looking at an empty channel on another server
<bigcalm> 10:16:51 disconnected
<bigcalm> 11:17:00 disconnected
<bigcalm> 12:17:07 disconnected
 * bigcalm wonders what VM were playing at
<Laney> hourly fun
<shauno> *chuckles*  1.7_01 already
<popey> hah
<shauno> last time, it was at .5 by time my shift finished.  kinda glad I don' get to ride them out at home :)
<Laney> release early, release often
<popey> release broken, fix often
<Laney> a useful corollarly
<shauno> I'm not sure if 5 build in one day, and then a couple of months of silence, is what the early/often mantra was going for
<Laney> with correct spelling
<nigelb> and hope you never have to do a release like https://github.com/MrMEEE/bumblebee/commit/a047be85247755cdbe0acce6
<shauno> heh
<shauno> next crasher is an upward facing piston, with cobble on top, and a lever ontop of the cobble
<shauno> punching sheep I understand, but how on earth do people find things like that?
<JGJones> some of those folks are probably qa engineers in their jobs?
<JGJones> so try all sort of daft things
<shauno> heh, their irc channel gives the impression it's more of an infinite monkeys scenario
<selinuxium> nigelb, OMG!
<nigelb> selinuxium: :)
<Laney> didn't we have a postinst that did that once?
<Azelphur> Anyone who uses/contributes to bukkit might want to take a nose at this, http://azelphur.com/content/why-you-should-avoid-bukkit-minecraft :p
<shauno> rawr
<shauno> I wonder how much drama I'd cause myself if I forwarded that one along to dinnerbone
<Azelphur> shauno: do it :)
<shauno> I'm not sure he's allowed to be mean to me, since I bought him for 30 cents at auction once
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> shauno: what's your opinion on that though, you agree with me? :P
<Azelphur> it's pretty funny how they try to act like I know nothing yet I've been in their business since before they even started xD
<shauno> that log seemed pretty typical of trying to deal with anything like that on irc
<shauno> I think the end result there had little to do with the actual complaint, and everything to do with you not bowing down to his authoratah
<bigcalm> Ah, I do enjoy having a shower in the work day
<ali1234> Azelphur: you should just do full disclosure of the bug :)
<ali1234> especially if it's a security bug
<Azelphur> ali1234: nah, was just a minor usability bug
<Azelphur> shauno: indeed, gotta love the authority stuff xD
<ali1234> how the plugins work anyway?
<Azelphur> ali1234: they wrote a wrapper around minecraft server
<Azelphur> shauno: in my game servers / plugin development I don't do crap like that. I tell it like it is and everyones happy
<ali1234> you should ask evilseph why he doesn't use BSD licence since it's clearly more suited to his ideals
<Azelphur> yea, I'm banned now anyway xD
<Azelphur> but I agree it does seem like they want BSD or WTFPL rather than GPL
<Azelphur> although ultimately GPL is better in game server modding environments
<Azelphur> speaking as someone who's been doing it coming on a decade now xD
<ali1234> i don't see why
<Azelphur> ali1234: because it stops crap like this from happening, game servers move fast and there's always updates and stuff that breaks things, bugfixes need to be contributable by everyone
<ali1234> no it doesn't
<Azelphur> it's kind of pointless having a development community where everyone is fighting over who owns the code
<ali1234> using BSD stops things like this from happening
<ali1234> because using BSD you make zero promises and ask for nothing in return
<Azelphur> BSD lets people close source their code again?
<ali1234> yes
<Azelphur> yea, that's a bad thing
<ali1234> using GPL doesn't stop people from doing it as you just found out
<ali1234> it just causes arguments
<Azelphur> so many plugin authors are kids that try and get away with bad things
<BigRedS> ali1234: it's arguable whether it's a bad thing
<ali1234> these people are all idiots for using the GPL when they clearly don't understand it and don't want it
<BigRedS> it's another of those indefinitely long arguments
<BigRedS> (if it was always a bad thing, nobody would ever do it)
<Azelphur> ^ that I agree with :P
<Azelphur> it does with SourceMod, any plugin that doesn't have the source code posted too gets removed
<Azelphur> you arn't allowed to post plugin without source hehe
<Azelphur> so it stops any malicious code surviving more than 5 minutes
<Azelphur> and it allows for a plugin approval process too, another thing that works great in sourcemod
<Azelphur> and it obviously allows for the whole GPL everybody working together stop raging about who owns your 100 lines of code thing.
<Azelphur> as I say I don't have these problems with SourceIRC and it's GPL licensed, there's a few forks floating about
<Azelphur> one guys writing a new core to have it connect as a server link rather than a client for example
<ali1234> also every time you see a post complaining about the bug be sure to follow it up with a message saying "i have a fix but evilseph says i'm not allowed to post it. please take it up with him"
<Azelphur> I'm banned lol
<ali1234> do it on other forums lol
<Azelphur> my evil open source ways are terrible
<ali1234> start google searching for references to the bug
<ali1234> follow up every single post about it everywhere on the whole internet
<Azelphur> it's too minor for that
<Azelphur> it was just a bug in stargate plugin that caused it to trigger NoCheats speedhack protection I think
<Azelphur> so a small conflict between plugin A and plugin B
<Azelphur> people are already taking the piss though, haha https://github.com/Seta00/craftbukkit-umad-edition
<ali1234> not worth worrying about then is it?
<Azelphur> yea it's not really about the bug, it's more about the way they treat the community
<ali1234> wait, they are lgpl?
<Azelphur> ali1234: no, craftbukkit (the actual modified server with the wrapper) is LGPL because it has to link to minecraft
<Azelphur> bukkit (the plugin API) is GPL
<ali1234> i don't even
<ali1234> this somewhat reminds me of the way canonical deals with patches to their homegrown software like the software center
<ali1234> they don't outright ban you at least
<Azelphur> lol
<ali1234> but i've seen complaints when people post patches and don't assign copyright because "now you've put the developer in an awkward position"
<Azelphur> lol
<ali1234> no, they put themselves in that position
<kvarley> I want to be able to open up a dvd video and take 1 title from that dvd and make an iso out of that individual title. What software can I use to do this? I am having issues with DVD Shrink and wine.
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: vobcopy?
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: + some DVD authoring tool
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: I've heard there are some KDE tools
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: Thanks, I'll try that and devede
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: Yeah like K9Burn or something
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: Do you think Nero 4 Linux would be able to do that?
<MartijnVdS> I don't know nero4linux
<MartijnVdS> I tend to use free software
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: Ah ok =)
<_serial_> does handbreak record all the film too or can you set it to record a section?
<MartijnVdS> _serial_: it can do a section, but it'll re-encode to MPEG4
<_serial_> ah, thanks for that :)
<MartijnVdS> _serial_: which you can't burn to DVD again (unless you re-encode to MPEG2, lots of quality loss)
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: Yeah I'm trying to avoid re-encoding cos if I use handbrake I'll have to re-encode back to mpg to put it on dvd
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: you can rip a title using mplayer -dumpstream dvd://1 I think
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: then you have a big MPEG2 stream you can burn to DVD using standard DVD-video authoring software
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: That could be interesting
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: I'll give it a go
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: check  the -dumpfile option to set where it dumps the stream to
<Azelphur> If I buy something from the software center, it's available to use on all my computers right?
<MartijnVdS> No idea.. please ask launchpad.net/answers
<ali1234> what you buy is tied to your ubuntu one account
<Azelphur> cool :)
<ali1234> i have no idea how it works for multiuser machines though
<ali1234> i mean you could just go around to your friends, log in, download all apps, then they've got them all for free
<kvarley> The dvd authoring tools on Ubuntu are extremely irritating.
<shauno> totally proud of my laptop today.  forgot to bring my charger, it still managed a 10hr shift :D
<AlanBell> http://www.facebook.com/UbuntuUK :)
<livingdaylight> Does Ubuntu still come with wubi as installation option for windows?
<livingdaylight> very quiet in the room?
<livingdaylight> did someone fart?
<daubers> lo
<MartijnVdS> *yawn*
<MartijnVdS> going to bed early tonight I think..
<StevenR> livingdaylight: yes, wubi is still there afaik.
<StevenR> it'll even do the downloady bit these days
<livingdaylight> StevenR: i think VB is a better way to go after all  - thanks
<StevenR> livingdaylight: ok, that's an option too, then you can run both at once
<popey> Evening all
<brobostigon> evening mr popey
<s-fox> Hello.
<popey> hi s-fox
<s-fox> Hello popey, how are you?
<s-fox> Glorious evening here
<popey> great
<popey> installing Ubuntu for a friend.
<s-fox> Good to hear.  Neat.
<s-fox> What prompted your friend wanting to give ubuntu a spin popey? :-)
<popey> She is a friend of my wifes, she asked my wife what I would recommend because she doesn't like windows
<popey> wife told her I would recommend ubuntu
<popey> she went off to look at ubuntu.com and came back saying "yes please"
<s-fox> Ah I see, cool.
<popey> I offered to install it for her
<popey> I didnt do any "sales pitch" to her at all
<czajkowski> no davemor2
<czajkowski> i feel cheated
<StevenR> popey: awesome :)
 * StevenR was doing Ubuntu-support-in-return-for-dinner at the weekend :)
 * TheOpenSourcerer will be "outside" tomorrow. Playing Golf :-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Am now trying to focus and get in the zone.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Beer.
<brobostigon> :)
<xapel_> is there an ubuntu manual somewhere for 11.04?
<DJones> !manual | xapel_
<lubotu3> xapel_: The Ubuntu Manual will help you become familiar with everyday tasks such as surfing the web, listening to music and scanning documents. With an emphasis on easy to follow instructions, it is suitable for all levels of experience. http://ubuntu-manual.org/
<popey> 10.10 sadly
<bigcalm> popey: ping
<popey> bigcalm: pong
<bigcalm> Sorry :)
<popey> np
<MooDoo> hello all
<daubers> lo
 * daubers misses having access to a decent telescope
<brobostigon> good night, sleep well everyone,
<popey> stgraber: do you ship some kind of software to restrict web access in edubuntu?
<Azelphur> anyone know how I fix ssh always asking for "Enter passphrase for key '/root/.ssh/id_rsa':"
#ubuntu-uk 2011-07-01
<popey> Azelphur: dont set a passphrase
<Azelphur> how do I unset the passphrase?
<popey> i dont think yiou can
<popey> you can create a new key
<popey> with no passphrase
<Azelphur> even if I have the passphrase?
<Azelphur> I just don't want to enter it all the time
<popey> yes
<popey> i know
<Azelphur> can I still keep all my ssh keys if I do that?
<popey> 00:02:12 < popey> you can create a new key
<popey> new != existing]
<Azelphur> :( that kinda isn't very good
<czajkowski> nn folks
<Azelphur> so I basically have the choices of wiping all my keys or entering a password forever?
<popey> its security
<Azelphur> it's silly security if it won't let me do what I want when I have all the valid credentials :P
<popey> you could put the password in a file
<popey> _that_ would be silly security
<Azelphur> lol
<MattJ> Azelphur: run `ssh-add`
<Azelphur> MattJ: Could not open a connection to your authentication agent.
<MattJ> Yay
<Azelphur> I'm doing this as root btw, as I need root to be able to ssh to another host automagically
<MattJ> Oh, automagically?
<MattJ> Create a new key :/
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> \o/
<MattJ> You can choose which key to use with ssh -i /path/to/key
<Azelphur> except that I can't really set that arg because it's for rsnapshot :(
<Azelphur> I'll probably just wipe the keys for root and suffer a bit xD
<MattJ> Bedtime, nn :)
<Azelphur> nn :)
<directhex> Azelphur, you can set per-host keys in ~/.ssh/config
<directhex> Host bhajiR
<directhex>     HostName bhaji.XXXXXXXXX
<directhex>     User directhexR
<directhex>     IdentityFile ~/.ssh/id_rsa-admin
<Azelphur> fun
<Safiyyah> popey!
<directhex> hmph, having trouble breathing this evening
<directhex> that normally only happens if i breathe in chinchilla dust, or eat a whole pint of ben & jerrys in one go
<Safiyyah> chinchilla the cat?
<directhex> Safiyyah: chinchilla the chinchilla.
 * Safiyyah goes to check for chinchilla on wikiepedia
<luckymallet> Is it true the people behind the royal wedding used taxpayer money to pay for their outlandish ceremony?
<directhex> faster than a speeding bullet, it's luckymallet
<Myrtti> popey â¥
<dimas_> what dependencies amsn need to be able to play animated smilyes?
<AlanBell> morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'd have thought czajkowski would have been perfect for this job? http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2011/0701/1224299837792.html
<hoover> morning all
<MooDoo> morning all
<DJones> Morning
<MooDoo> wow quiet !
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> morning bigcalm
<danfish> ahoy hoy!
<MooDoo> arrrgghhhhh danfish
<danfish> morning ye scurvy dogs!
<danfish> it's too nice to be inside
<danfish> I give the whole channel the day off :)
<MooDoo> tell me about it, glad it's my last day before me hols :)
<danfish> going away anywhere?
<MooDoo> danfish, whitby
<danfish> nice. Watch out for vampires ;)
<MooDoo> danfish, been there before, i know where they all are......i'm a bit weary of locals who ask me in for a bite ;)
<danfish> they just want you to have a fangtastic time
<MooDoo> popey,  i remember you using a wii remote for one of your mumbuntu presentations.....did you do that using WiiCan?
<bigcalm> Morning MooDoo & danfish
<MooDoo> :)
<stgraber> popey: we ship gnome nanny that's supposed to do part of that
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MooDoo> good morning
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<wintellect> o/
<brobostigon> morning wintellect
<MooDoo> woohoo roll on 5:30
<MooDoo> anyone got anything else to add to our re-approval document? - http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/reapproval
<MooDoo> yay looks like we got the vanity url for the facebook page :)
<AlanBell> we did :)
<MooDoo> forgot gary kearley did a facebook group for ubuntu uk as well :S lol
<AlanBell> numbers are creeping up
<brobostigon> nothing to indicate end of lines,
<MooDoo> AlanBell, not a lot happening on the re-approval pad i see, i just keep adding stuff :)
<AlanBell> yeah
<brobostigon> i will add things i find aswell.
<AlanBell> I put in some stuff, I am doing some stats on the launchpad group
<MooDoo> sweet :)
<AlanBell> general activity levels
<brobostigon> global jam, inst mentioned, with mumble, and the live vnc's install testing.
<AlanBell> we don't really do much as a team, but individuals in ubuntu-uk do a lot of stuff on launchpad
<MooDoo> alot of the stuff i'm finiding is quite old, would be nice to find some blog post and photos from recent events.
<AlanBell> yes, I noticed that I have done blog posts in advance of events, but very little in terms of writing them up afterwards
<AlanBell> http://ubuntu-uk.org/2011/07/01/books-and-butties/
<AlanBell> should go to the facebook page automatically
<MooDoo> :)
<AlanBell> google plus appears to include video conferencing with a .deb for ubuntu
<MooDoo> it does
<MooDoo> works quite well, it's the same one they released yonks ago
<AlanBell> I missed the memo on that one
<brobostigon> i havent tried that yet.
<AlanBell> I thought they did some voice thing that only works in the US
<Laney> doesn't work behind a proxy
<Laney> :(
<MooDoo> AlanBell, the google voice this is different
<MooDoo> the deb is for when they released video chat in gmail iirc
<brobostigon> yes
<MooDoo> well it works in any case :D
<brobostigon> it is aninteresting idea.
 * AlanBell starts a hangout
<DJones> Does anybody have invites for google+ going spare?
<MooDoo> djones email?  i'll try it,
<DJones> MooDoo: Sent you a pm with the address
 * brobostigon doesnt have AlanBell on google+
<bigcalm_> DJones: give us a punt then :)
<MooDoo> me neiother
<bigcalm_> Ah, you're looking, not offering
 * bigcalm_ goes back to his corner
 * AlanBell wonders how to find people that it hasn't already found by magic
<brobostigon> AlanBell: good question.
<brobostigon> AlanBell: the find people hingie, top middle, on the stream page.
<DJones> If anybody wants to add me on google +, pm me for my email address
<daubers> lo
<brobostigon> morning daubers
<MooDoo> morning daubers
 * daubers managed to sleep all night last night without needing to get up to throw up \o/
<brobostigon> :)
<MartijnVdS> daubers: improvement!
<cbx33> hey
<cbx33> anyone here?
<brobostigon> afternoonings cbx33
<cbx33> i just followed instructions to recompile me kernel :)
<cbx33> and create the "package"
<cbx33> what i want to know is - will it overwrite my current kernel
<popey> why?
<cbx33> and do entires get added to grub?
<MartijnVdS> cbx33: depends on which version package you made
<cbx33> popey, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/765082
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 765082 in linux (Ubuntu Natty) "[ips-monitor] is in state 'D'" [Medium,In progress]
<MartijnVdS> cbx33: actually, on the package name
<MartijnVdS> cbx33: if the package name is identical to the current kernel, it will overwrit
<MartijnVdS> e
<MartijnVdS> otherwise, it'll install a new one
<cbx33> ahh no it['s now
<cbx33> not
<cbx33> linux-headers-2.6.38.2-tweak_2.6.38.2-tweak-10.00.Custom_i386.deb
<cbx33> linux-image-2.6.38.2-tweak_2.6.38.2-tweak-10.00.Custom_i386.deb
<cbx33> are my package names
<cbx33> do grub entries get added automatically
<popey> you'll get a new entry in grub
<MartijnVdS> cbx33: yes that's automagic
<cbx33> ok sweeet
<cbx33> does it install new "modules" direcctory too?
<cbx33> and what happens when a "new" kernel version is released on the ubuntu repos?
<MartijnVdS> it should
<MartijnVdS> then you get a new one -- as long as the metapackage is still installed I think
<MartijnVdS> but I don't know if it goes to the top of grub automatically
<cbx33> ahh ok
<cbx33> that's no problem i can change that
<JGJones> Hmm...I was just wondering...I can't remember any news where Google have sued other companies over patents?
<JGJones> I know Google get sued a lot - ie by Oracle being the most recent, but what about Google suing others?
<Laney> google is an OIN licensee
 * brobostigon likes AlanBell's humour, in the email hejust sent to the mailing list.
 * MooDoo will look at said email
 * MooDoo likes said email....
<Laney> MooDoo: if you get some CDs to Notts then I can put them around CS
<MooDoo> Laney, yeah i'm asking AlanBell to get me some
<Laney> that's what I was referring to :-)
<MooDoo> :) Laney i'll keep you informed
<Laney> aye aye
<JGJones> Laney, as I understand - OIN is specifically for Linux only? Or have I got that wrong?
<brobostigon> you are right, it is linux only.
<MooDoo> Laney, where are you anyway?
<MooDoo> Laney, fancy arranging an ubuntu hour?
<JGJones> I was wondering this as just saw the news that the Nortel patents been bought out by a group of companies including MS, Apple etc.
<Laney> it is indeed
<Laney> MooDoo: beeston/university
<MooDoo> damn didn't get an interview with canonical :(
<MooDoo> Laney, awesome.....
<Laney> and I don't fancy arranging much, but maybe I'd attend ...
<Laney> what is one of those?
<MooDoo> Laney, that's kinda what i meant :)
<MooDoo> ubuntu hour, an hour in a coffee bar or something discussing and or using/installing ubuntu with like minded individuals
<brobostigon> :)
<kvarley> I can't get audio with my Dazzle DVC-100. I can get video but no audio
<jimmie> Don't suppose anyone knows how to change the width of the unity launcher do they?
<MooDoo> jimmie, maybe this will help? -http://ubuntu4beginners.blogspot.com/2011/04/tweak-unity-to-better-suit-your-needs.html
<jimmie> Thanks alot MooDoo
<Psychobudgie> don't suppose anyone in here has an idea what could be causing x to flick to a black screen every few seconds when running some opengl apps/games
<Psychobudgie> there is nothing in the logs to indicate anything going pear shaped
<MooDoo> bug #157580
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 157580 in Ubuntu "Screen flickers when OpenGL app is launched" [Undecided,Expired] https://launchpad.net/bugs/157580
<MooDoo> that it Psychobudgie ?
<Psychobudgie> yup, that's it
<Psychobudgie> example
<MooDoo> ok that's an old one lol
<MooDoo> didn't look at the date lol
<brobostigon> undecided status, somore information,the better, to confirm, and solve.
<brobostigon> expired. hmm.
<Psychobudgie> um no
<Psychobudgie> thats not it
<Psychobudgie> if I run minecraft, the game starts and runs fine but every 5 or 6 seconds the entire display will go black and then return
<Psychobudgie> the applications all continue running
<Psychobudgie> the display doesn't go onto standby so it's not a synch issue
<AlanBell> "The Ubuntu Keyboard will be with you Monday - enjoy - and tell everyone. We will offer them out at the same price as the standard ones." - nice :)
<Psychobudgie> also happens with other opengl games but doesn't occur while using compiz
<Psychobudgie> and there is nothing in the logs to suggest anything is going wrong anywhere
<Psychobudgie> oh and it only started occurring a few days ago, been absolutely fine up until then
<MooDoo> no idea then sorry :(
<MooDoo> not running a dual head system are you?
<Psychobudgie> my money is on the driver but I cannot recall any changes or recent updates to the nvidia drivers
<Psychobudgie> no
<MooDoo> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1610146
<MooDoo> reqad that see if it's related?
<Psychobudgie> got a 8600gt
<MooDoo> hmm that doesn't help either, it started working after awhile
<Psychobudgie> to be perfectly honest, in 2 years I had no major issues at all with my system, since installing natty I've had easily 2 years worth in the space of a few weeks.
<Psychobudgie> not happy, actually considered going back to windows yesterday, then after punching myself repeatedly changed my mind
<MooDoo> Psychobudgie, - https://bugs.launchpad.net/nvidia-drivers-ubuntu/+bug/660596   read this
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 660596 in nvidia-graphics-drivers (Ubuntu) "Black screen after installing Nvidia drivers on 10.10" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<kvarley> Psychobudgie: Windows isn't the solution to any problem.
<MooDoo> there are lots of pages, bug if you search google, i just can't see anything actually specific to your problem
<Psychobudgie> that's a different issue
<Psychobudgie> it's almost as if the screensaver is kicking in briefly
<brobostigon> Psychobudgie: i would search yourself, on launchpad, as MooDoo said, there probeblkyloads of results.
<Psychobudgie> I have
<Psychobudgie> that's why I'm asking here
<brobostigon> anything useful ?
<Psychobudgie> nope
<brobostigon> Psychobudgie: report a new bug, if doesnt exist. :)
<Psychobudgie> it's the lack of errors in the logs that's got me kerfuffled
<brobostigon> Psychobudgie: and prod the ubuntu-x chaps and gals, at it.
<brobostigon> i prodded the ubuntu-x chaps and gals, about my gpu lockup innatty for ages, and itgot fixed, after some testing.
<brobostigon> :)
<Psychobudgie> I'm just wondering if it's perhaps the card
<Psychobudgie> rather than x
<Psychobudgie> it's getting on a bit, and I replaced the fan on it a couple of months ago
<Psychobudgie> might open it up and have a look
<brobostigon> hw failiure, shhould show up somewhere, either dmesg, syslog, ot otherwise.
<brobostigon> or*
<Psychobudgie> yeah, that's why I am suspecting the driver but you never know
<brobostigon> any bugs filed directly for the nvidia driver you are using?
<Psychobudgie> nopr
<brobostigon> not just generally xorg.
<Psychobudgie> nope, well not related
<brobostigon> Psychobudgie: i wouldfile a new bug, in that case, if it new, and notreportedyet, with as much informtion, and you cancram into it.
<Psychobudgie> other than what I've typed here, there isn't much else I can provide as there is a distinct lack of errors
<brobostigon> in as much detail, as you can.
<Psychobudgie> which normally results in it being closed
<brobostigon> Psychobudgie: hw informartion, so lshw, and you xorg logs, and you gpu model, etc, aswell.
<Psychobudgie> think I'll try reseating the gpu fan just to be safe and then take it from there
<Psychobudgie> cheers
<Psychobudgie> bbiab
<brobostigon> ok.
<ali1234> you shouldn't remove gpu fan
<ali1234> the heat pads are one-time use
<ali1234> probably goes for modern heatsinks too
<ali1234> cpu i mean
<diplo> I've changed them before, couple of years ago albeit
<MooDoo> yay they've been filming batman in nottingham lol
<DJones> MooDoo: The Del Boy & Rodney version?
<MooDoo> DJones, lol no the new batman movie
<MooDoo> christian bale
<diplo> MooDoo, will be in Notts on Tuesday. Please make sure lots of women out in the evening!
<diplo> :)
<MooDoo> diplo, you've no problem there matey :)
<diplo> Was dead last time we were up, where as the time before it was some sort of toga party thing going on
<diplo> But at that time I was still married!
<MooDoo> ah you'll have to wait and see then :D
<Psychobudgie> yay
<Psychobudgie> it was the gpu
<Psychobudgie> brobostigon,  well, memory to be precise
<Psychobudgie> brobostigon,  wacked some thermal paste on to the chips and stuck a small heatsink onto them and voila
<brobostigon> ok, :)
<Psychobudgie> makes me wonder as to why it doesn't happen in windows though
<brobostigon> not a clue.
<Psychobudgie> makes me ponder as to whether the nvidia driver is running the gpu and memory at the right speed on the video card
<brobostigon> i havent used a modern window, in over a decade. so no idea.
<brobostigon> windows*
<Psychobudgie> microsoft haven't written a 'modern windows' in over a decade so no probs
<brobostigon> ok.
<brobostigon> last version i used, for some reasonable amount of time, was windows 200.
<brobostigon> windows 2000*
<Psychobudgie> it was uncannily the last 'good' version of windows so you haven't missed anything
<brobostigon> ok,
<Psychobudgie> we kept all our windows dev boxes on 2000 until windows 7 appeared
<brobostigon> ah,
<Psychobudgie> we only moved then due to dependancies
<bigcalm_> So it's only this machine that is dropping ever hour? Most strange
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jonathan Riddell] Launchpadding, bzr --verify-signatures, Desktop Summit - http://blogs.kde.org/node/4449
<MooDoo> yippeee 1 more hour then i'm on my holidays :D
<brobostigon> :)
 * brobostigon gets a beer ready for MooDoo 
<MooDoo> why thank you brobostigon
<brobostigon> :)
 * brobostigon changed google calendar back to classic look. the new one, filled more than a singleframe sohad to scroll, unlike with the old version.
<shauno> it's fun when you google for an error message, and the only result returned is the source code :(
<AlanBell> shauno: even more fun when you realise it was *you* that wrote it
<shauno> ugh.  I need to reboot because upstart's a complete botch
<popey> sam x mum
<popey> ^^ sam typed that
<nigelb> heh
<AlanBell> o/ sam
<nigelb> \o sam
<nigelb> introducing sam to IRC at an early age, good idea :D
<popey> ccccccccccccccccccccccccccesam
<popey> xzxzxzjjjjjkkloiuuytrewe12345678901
<popey> nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvppppppppp
<nigelb> heh
<popey> xzxzxzxzxzxzxzxzxzxzxxzxzxz
<AlanBell> popey is making an unusual amount of sense today
<AlanBell> ;)
<laclasse> popey fell asleep on the kboard
<Azelphur> it's true :P
<nigelb> AlanBell: hehe
<popey> nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnmsaaaaaaaam
<popey> bgffddaxxzzz\zxcxxxxxxxxxzzzzzzxxxxxxxxxxxxxxz
<popey> Ahem
<nigelb> ^ he stopped the fun
<safiyyah> hi guys am trying to set up nvidia on natty, i am stuck on something
<safiyyah> is anyone free to help?
<AlanBell> !ask
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<AlanBell> I haven't got an nvidia machine so I won't be much help
<safiyyah> okay so I already have nvidia driver 173 installed on restricted drivers but it says that it is currently not active.
<safiyyah> I changed the xorg. conf file to the one popey made me , I rebooted and nothing happened
<safiyyah> I have over large pixels now, so have no idea if that is what is affecting my view of the menu or if the admin menu did actually disappear
<safiyyah> ali1234, Azelphur , AlanBell , directhex , MartijnVdS
 * Azelphur has been highlighted :o
<Azelphur> can you not click activate?
<safiyyah> there was no activate button, just remove
<safiyyah> nvidia config is installed
<Azelphur> you have an nvidia card?
<safiyyah> nvidia X server settings* is installed and running
<safiyyah> yes I do
<Azelphur> safiyyah: maybe remove and install again in jockey
<safiyyah> okay
<safiyyah> I dont get anything when I search for restricted extras on the menu
<safiyyah> can I remove it from the terminal?
<safiyyah> remember I have a restricted menu because of my graphics
<Azelphur> that statement made no sense o.O
<Azelphur> restricted extras is nothing to do with nvidia drivers, what menu?
<safiyyah> well you go to restricted extras, highlight the installed driver, click remove
<safiyyah> or what did you mean then?
<Azelphur> safiyyah: that's hardware drivers, restricted extras is a package
<safiyyah> found it.... they changed it to additional drivers
<safiyyah> okay I am removing it
<Azelphur> yea :P
<safiyyah> will reboot?
<safiyyah> brb
<Azelphur> yea, when it asks
<safiyyah> Azelphur... all done, it just didnt seem to like the default installation which said it wasn't active, so removing it and starting over was the solution
<safiyyah> many thanx
<safiyyah> is anyone else on natty
<safiyyah> ?
<safiyyah> this menu.... needs getting used to LOL
<Azelphur> safiyyah: good that it's fixed :D
<Azelphur> safiyyah: yea, I run natty on all my machines
<safiyyah> Azelphur, it like a large upgrade from lucid. Many changes, it like a brand new toy
<safiyyah> are you using unity OR gnome 3
 * MartijnVdS uses unity
<safiyyah> MartijnVdS,   I have to get used to it! LOL
<StevenR> MartijnVdS: is there a "system tray" place? Like for pidgin to live in?
<MartijnVdS> StevenR: there can be, but don't use pidgin
<MartijnVdS> I use empathy
<StevenR> MartijnVdS: hmmm. how do I add it?
<MartijnVdS> StevenR: just click the envelope (top right)
<MartijnVdS> StevenR: it should show pidgin (if you set it to use the messaging/indicator menu)
<MartijnVdS> StevenR: or empathy
<safiyyah> I think I am in love with gnome 3
<MartijnVdS> I haven't really tried it yet
<MartijnVdS> I heard it has even fewer configurable settings than unity has
<MartijnVdS> and I think that would annoy me
<safiyyah> MartijnVdS,  fewer!!!!!
<MartijnVdS> safiyyah: yes
<safiyyah> oh no, the lack of flexibility on the unity bar is doing my head in
<MartijnVdS> safiyyah: it's as flexible as the Gnome 3 menu bar
<safiyyah> but the look and feel, hmmm love at first sight!
<safiyyah> lol so i just need to wait a year for it all to be ironed out
<MartijnVdS> probably
<MartijnVdS> 12.04 will be fine :)
<safiyyah> I do feel like laughing at MS though, just when they nearly came close to catching up we sped ahead
<MartijnVdS> well  the Unity bar feels a lot like the Windows 7 task bar
<safiyyah> have the release cycles gone to 12 months and not 6 months anymore?
<MartijnVdS> safiyyah: no they're still on 6 months, but 12.04 is the next LTS release
<MartijnVdS> safiyyah: which is in a year
<safiyyah> windows 7 task bar...  nothing will make me like windows, even though I run it on Virtual box
<safiyyah> I do like their office package though
<ali1234> 12.04 will be the first version where normal users have actually been able to contribute to the development version
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: what? how?
<ali1234> let's say you are a normal user
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: normal users fixing bugs?
<ali1234> you don't want to run ubuntu +1
<ali1234> it's not possible to contribute to unity in a normal way without doing this
<MartijnVdS> "this"?
<AlanBell> why is 11.10 not that release then?
<ali1234> this = "running ubuntu +1"
<MartijnVdS> you mean "controversial" releases before LTS
<MartijnVdS> ?
<ali1234> because the version of natty needs gtk3 which isn't available in 11.04
<ali1234> so you can't run unity from 11.10 on 11.04
<ali1234> so when 11.10 comes out you will finally be able to run the development version on a distro that doesn't fall over every two days
<ali1234> so then normal people will be able to contribute
<AlanBell> ah, gotcha
<MartijnVdS> Yeah oneiric is falling over every few days
<MartijnVdS> :(
<ali1234> so when 12.04 comes out we'll start to see enhancements from "normal" people filtering through
<safiyyah> do you guys run development distros on VBox?
<ali1234> and it might be slightly less of a complete mess
<ali1234> safiyyah: hell no, vbox 3d acceleration still sucks which makes it hard to run unity
<ali1234> i mean it works
<ali1234> but you never know if it's a bug in vbox or unity
<ali1234> so it's just not worth the hassle
<MartijnVdS> there's unity-2d
<ali1234> oh and in case you are wondering why not just contribute the the version of unity in the stable release... well there's no point because only major crash bugs will be fixed
<MartijnVdS> there's no point in contributing to unity anyway
<MartijnVdS> 1) copyright assignment
<ali1234> well i tend to agree
<MartijnVdS> 2) "The design says it's not a bug"
<ali1234> but what else you going to do? go to gnome 3? loooooooooooool
<MartijnVdS> +team
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: XFCE is still an option
<ali1234> no
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: they went insane as well?
<ali1234> xfce is awful
<ali1234> xfce never got there act together in the first place
<ali1234> it's like using a gui from 10 years ago
<ali1234> if unity is a bad copy of os x then xfce is a bad copy of windows 95
<ali1234> or possible a bad copy of gnome 2
<ali1234> with some bits of kde thrown in for no reason
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: KDE is even worse though
<ali1234> true
<MartijnVdS> they still haven't recovered from the KDE4 fiasco
<ali1234> kde4 "fiasco" is overblown
<ali1234> kde4 has all the same problems kde3 had
<ali1234> they haven't fixed any of them
<ali1234> people who moaned about kde4 being "different" would have been better off complaining about al the things that were the same
<ali1234> like the font rendering bugs
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheyChangedItNowItSucks
<ali1234> kde can't even centre text properly
<ali1234> since about 2002
<ali1234> the thing about kde is it only looks "good" if you use the default theme
<ali1234> if you try to configure it at all everything just explodes and it looks like a mess
<ali1234> due to afforementioned font rendering bugs, and others
<ali1234> but the configurability of kde is supposed to be it's selling point
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: also.. every bit of free space in dialog boxes must be filled with configuration/tweaking options
<ali1234> but i don't see how anyone could use anything but the defaults without going nuts
<MartijnVdS> as if it's a law
<ali1234> yeah the overuse of toolbars and dividable windows is annoying
<ali1234> but you can turn off most of that
<ali1234> turning off the icons on buttons helps a lot
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: don't forget the Amarok 1 vs 2 fanboi-war
<ali1234> lol both versions of amarok suuuuuuck
<ali1234> the main thing that makes kde look bad is the lack of a colour scheme
<ali1234> even the default "everything is blue" still has icons with every single colour ever
<ali1234> it makes everything look childish imo
<ali1234> they need to get a nice mono icon set and make it the default
<ali1234> and make it so you can configure things without hitting bugs
<ali1234> and then i would switch to kde
<safiyyah> ali1234,  i was pondering my dilema with continously dead hard drives
<safiyyah> and I noticed when I was formating my new SSD that I normally do swap, /root partition and a /home partition. The thing is I have alwats set both as primary.
<safiyyah> Today I set home as logical
<safiyyah> I think this might have been a contributor to the panicked kernels etc?
<safiyyah> MartinjnVds looks like am stuck on Unity. I miss having a customizable panel!!!!!
<ali1234> safiyyah: no, that's not it
<safiyyah> you can't change anything really apart from the wallpaper, it's like windows XP
<safiyyah> no.... windows 7
<MartijnVdS> safiyyah: you can change the colours
<MartijnVdS> safiyyah: and the screen saver
<matti> AlanBell: How is it that I am getting G+ mails from you? ;]
<matti> AlanBell: How did you managed to do it? :)
<matti> AlanBell: I have not G+ account ;p
 * MartijnVdS does
<matti> Show off ;p
<MartijnVdS> but it's not my "real" google account
<MartijnVdS> because that's apps and apps doesn't have profiles so no g+ for apps
<AlanBell> matti: not entirely sure tbh
<AlanBell> it does google magic with your contacts
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: could be buzz leaking through to g+ :)
<matti> AlanBell: Hmm :)
<matti> AlanBell: Have you got some spare invites?
<MartijnVdS> matti: what's your gmail address?
<matti> MartijnVdS: kswilczynski
<MartijnVdS> matti: you should have emails
<matti> MartijnVdS: Oh :) Thank you kind Sir ;]
<MartijnVdS> matti: did it works?
<matti> Hold on.
<s-fox> Hello,
<matti> MartijnVdS: No e-mails.
<MartijnVdS> matti: hmmm... le strange
<matti> :)
<MartijnVdS> "Sending email invitations will be enabled soon!" :(
<MartijnVdS> sorry
<matti> No worries ;]
<matti> Thanks ;)
 * MartijnVdS starts hoping for good weather at the end of the month
<MartijnVdS> (geeknic/scifi exhibition thingy)
<MartijnVdS> matti: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1032/detail/
<matti> MartijnVdS: ;]
<suprengr> hiya's all - back home from working away & logging on I noticed a whoopsee in the topic...  Meeting 28th June 20:00 UK time - whoop-seeee  ;)
<AlanBell> suprengr: yeah
<suprengr> hi AlanBell  - good to be back
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 6th July 20:00 UK time #ubuntu-uk-meeting http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | Libraries, SciFi and Geeknicks 24th July!
<AlanBell> better?
<suprengr> AlanBell, that'll do nicely - ta!   :D
<safiyyah> MartijnVdS,  how do you add items into the "notification area?"
<MartijnVdS> safiyyah: some apps are whitelisted, others can be added.. there's a howto on the wiki I think
<safiyyah> thanx
<safiyyah> MartijnVdS,  am I missing some kind of keyword, my searches return nada
<MartijnVdS> safiyyah: "whitelist" and "unity"?
<MartijnVdS> safiyyah: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1709517
<safiyyah> MartijnVdS I did everything but the app is still not showing on the Unity System Tray
<safiyyah> what did I miss :(
<MartijnVdS> safiyyah: which app?
<MartijnVdS> safiyyah: maybe it's in the messaging menu?
<MartijnVdS> also, maybe you need to configure the app to actually show a notification icon?
<MartijnVdS> or restart it?
<safiyyah> I did...
<MartijnVdS> so which app is it? :)
<safiyyah> I take it now I can't have apps like the desktop alarm clock etc?
<safiyyah> minbar
<MartijnVdS> safiyyah: does that have a notification icon option?
<safiyyah> yep
<MartijnVdS> safiyyah: you can disable the blacklist completely, maybe that will help?
<safiyyah> how does one do that?
<MartijnVdS> safiyyah: isn't that in the howto?
<safiyyah> no the how to is about creating a whitelist
<safiyyah> and this one is DEF on the white list
<MartijnVdS> http://www.webupd8.org/2011/04/how-to-re-enable-notification-area.html\
<MartijnVdS> without the \
<safiyyah> MartijnVdS,  okay I got it!!! yeiiii
<safiyyah> lol, now everything goes on the system tray!
<safiyyah> lol
<safiyyah> i don't mind though
<StevenR> wow. Firefox 5. Still not getting on with unity :S
<StevenR> (those two aren't related)
#ubuntu-uk 2011-07-02
<s-fox> Goodbye
<gyyrog> hello
<Myrtti> moin
<AlanJenkins> morning
<Psychobudgie> brobostigon, that issue with the video flashing started again
<Psychobudgie> brobostigon, think I've found the culprit though, it's compiz by the looks of things. If I disable compiz while running an opengl title the issue goes away
<AlanJenkins> Psychobudgie: does that happen on opengl games and stuff too or just video playback?
<Psychobudgie> AlanJenkins, the issue only occurs when running some opengl titles (minecraft, warzone 2100)
<Psychobudgie> AlanJenkins, my display starts flashing black, as if desktop effects are switching on and off
<Psychobudgie> doesn't occur at any other time and the only way to stop it happening is to run classic with no effects
<Psychobudgie> there are no errors reported in the logs when it happens
<AlanJenkins> which graphics driver are you using mate?
<Psychobudgie> latest nvidia from repo
<AlanJenkins> mmm think I may have had that problem many moons ago, let me see if I can remember what it was (I fixed it so compiz worked without causing the flickering)
<AlanJenkins> think it was an xorg.conf option
<Psychobudgie> I was thinking along those lines but can't find any reference
<Psychobudgie> brb
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<AlanJenkins> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning AlanJenkins
<daubers> morning
<bigcalm> Afternoon
<Neoti_Laptop> hi all jusy about the buy a Dell inspiron R15 N5010 and would like to make sure there are no problems with ubuntu 11.04 64bit on there... i have had a look on the ubuntu certyfied hardware and i can see inspiron R15 but no mention of 5010... any help ?
<brobostigon> Neoti_Laptop: try a live medium, besttest. :)
<JGJones> I've been trying to configure my ddclient for updating dyndns and opendns - it works for opendns, but it's not updating my dyndns - getting this error "FAILED:   updating gwallgofi.dyndns.org: nohost: The hostname specified does not exist in the database"
<JGJones> gwallgofi.dyndns.org does exist by the way, and have the correct ip address, and is set to dynamic ip (default in ddclient)
<JGJones> my ddclient conf for dyndns as followed - http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/636865/
<AlanJenkins> JGJones: is that the order the lines come in in your ddclient.conf?
<JGJones> AlanJenkins, yes it is
<AlanJenkins> sec just gonna post something in the pastebin
<AlanJenkins> see if you order them the same way as this if it starts working
<AlanJenkins> just a guess =)
<AlanJenkins> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/636871/
<AlanJenkins> may make no difference at all but its worth a try
<JGJones> hmm
<JGJones> it does
<JGJones> I now get an invalid login...at least it's going somewhere
<AlanJenkins> good =)
<czajkowski> gord: make it back ?
<AlanJenkins> think when it sees a server line it expects the things that describe that server to come after
<AlanJenkins> so it wouldnt have set the protocol to dyndns2
<AlanJenkins> any luck JGJones
<AlanJenkins> ?
<JGJones> not sure how to parse login= line
<JGJones> my username is jgjones so it's saying login=jgjones
<JGJones> and it's invalid
<JGJones> so tried it as login='jgjones' and login="jgjones" and no joy either
<JGJones> i put the login under the gwallgofi.dyndns.org line btw
<AlanJenkins> sec
<AlanJenkins> aha just noticed something else too
<AlanJenkins> have you got backslashes on the end of the lines?
<MartijnVdS> continuation \o/
<AlanJenkins> indeed MartijnVdS =)
<AlanJenkins> JGJones: try set it to be this http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/636877/
<AlanJenkins> obv put your password in
<StevenR> hrrm. anyone use daap? I'm streaming a podcast from my server (the ubuntu-uk one actually)... but I can move backwards and forwards ... Like I missed a few seconds because of some outside noise.
<StevenR> but I can't seem to make banshee or rhythmbox go backwards
<MartijnVdS> StevenR: what kind of daap server do you use?
<MartijnVdS> it might not support seeking
<StevenR> mt-daapd
<StevenR> ahh.
<StevenR> MartijnVdS: I'm using the natty-packaged version of mt-daapd
<MartijnVdS> I've never used mt-daapd myself, sorry
<AlanJenkins> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefly_Media_Server << its not been maintained for a while
<AlanJenkins> may be worth checking for a more actively maintained one, quite possible the version you have there does not support seeking as StevenR stated
 * MartijnVdS switched to DLNA/UPnP
<MartijnVdS> those daemons are well-supported, because there are lots of devices (non-apple) that support it
<StevenR> MartijnVdS: do you know the name of a daemon I could install to do that?
<MartijnVdS> mediatomb used to be great, don't know if it still is
<AlanJenkins> yep mediatomb is good
<StevenR> (really, I want to have my library on my server, and have two "controls" - I want to play the media out of my laptop's sound card OR control from my laptop and play it out through the server's speakers)
<MartijnVdS> and you need a plugin for rhythmbox/banshee on the client end (rhythmbox-plugin-coherence or built-in)
<AlanJenkins> StevenR: mpd sounds like a good idea
<MartijnVdS> not built-in.. gmm
<AlanJenkins> mpd can be setup for that
<AlanJenkins> the daemon can be running on a remote machine and has various clients to control playback on the server
<AlanJenkins> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MPD
<StevenR> AlanJenkins: yeah, I was gonna use mpd for "case 2"
<AlanJenkins> heh great minds =)
<StevenR> but mpd is basically only a control protocol, right? I can't stream the media to my laptop with it?
<AlanJenkins> you kind of can
<StevenR> oh?
<AlanJenkins> you use pulseaudio to transmit the sound from the server to the laptop
<AlanJenkins> will require some messing about to get that setup though
<AlanJenkins> if you did setup it that way though you can have both of the things you asked for
<AlanJenkins> you can use sonata to remotely control the music the server is playing
<AlanJenkins> and you can then also tell it to redirect the played audio to your laptop
<StevenR> oooo
<MartijnVdS> Wow.. that's similar music:
<MartijnVdS> "1000000% similar" in banshee :)
<AlanJenkins> lol yeah that sounds pretty similar =), infact must be the same track recorded at the same second in the same place by the same guy
<MartijnVdS> yeah except it's not
<StevenR> MartijnVdS: sure it's not a hardlink ;)
<MartijnVdS> I think last.fm added some extra precision on the end (.0000) and banshee is ignoring the .
<StevenR> ooops
<MartijnVdS> StevenR: I'm sure, I've never heard of the artist :)
<AlanJenkins> this looks like it could be interesting for you too StevenR
<AlanJenkins> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ampache
<AlanJenkins> infact that would probs be easier to setup than messing with pulseaudio
<AlanJenkins> as pulse can be a pita sometimes
<AlanJenkins> what I would recommend you do though is get mpd setup on the server and sonata on your laptop, for local playback on the laptop it may be better to setup upnp on the server to share to the laptop
<StevenR> AlanJenkins: yeah, I was thinking that would be simpler, using mediatomb
<StevenR> or ampache
<JGJones> AlanJenkins, getting hostname does not exist error now with your proposed changes...I'll leave it for later as gotta pop out but thanks for your help anywya :)
<matti> MartijnVdS: Hey :)
<matti> MartijnVdS: Would you care to try again with the invites? I've got two e-mails this morning but they seem to be expired already.
<jacobw> http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/networking/1285735/bt-homehub-doesnt-work-with-dual-boot-linux
<rakshasa73> hallo!
<rakshasa73> i'm searching for a way to hide my ubuntu host from windows network resources over my lan. Can someone help me?
<jacobw> disable the things that identify ubuntu to windows networking things
<rakshasa73> how please?
<Neoti_Laptop> ok i can confirm that Ubuntu 11.04 and the Dell R15 N5010 work perfectly fine, all the keys and function work right out the box with no tweaks
<Neoti_Laptop> though i am stuck at 60h for the screen res... as ideas how to up this
<AlanBell> Neoti_Laptop: you can't on a laptop or lcd display (they don't really work like that)
<Neoti_Laptop> dam..........
<Neoti_Laptop> oh well
<matti> :)
<brobostigon> :)
<matti> Hey brobostigon :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Martin Meredith] Google+: Part 1  Circles - http://www.sourceguru.net/google-part-1-circles/
<richard> hi
<Guest54718> i ahave a problem with firefox, it default to the following automatic config proxy   abine://auto-conf.js
<Guest54718> anyone know why?
<Guest54718> everytime i start firefox it default to automatic proxy with this setting    abine://auto-conf.js
#ubuntu-uk 2011-07-03
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
<gord> i know people say linux is hard to use... but i just gave up trying to get remote desktop working in windows, windows is way harder
<penguin42> gord: I did it a few years back (probably last time I used Windows) - rdesktop did actually work quite well
<gord> i'm talking about the built in one
<gord> for windows 7
<gord> its like a mind game
<gord> ah, now windows firewall has decided to block everything on the network
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Back From Dublin - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/07/03/back-from-dublin/
<danfish> morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
<danfish> unfortunately my 2 year old wakes with the sunrise :(
<MartijnVdS> what's unfortunate about that?
<MartijnVdS> gives you the entire day do do nothing! :)
<danfish> daddy doesn't like getting up at 0430!
<MartijnVdS> Time for better curtains?
<danfish> they're blackout curtains already, but light still seems to get in
<danfish> still, I've finished updating all PC's in the house to 11.04
<MartijnVdS> see, it's useful to be up early :P
<danfish> it is also a stunning morning here weatherwise
<danfish> might have breakfast in the garden
<daubers> Morning
 * daubers needs to write some blog stuff, download an ubuntu iso and sort out his laptop today
<Gaara> He
<Gaara> No user list :3
<Gaara> This irc client sux
<Gaara> NEXT!
<daubers> Quiet around here this morning
<DJones> Morning all
<daubers> o/
<daubers> Ah.... that's a bit better
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<daubers> o/
<brobostigon> o/
 * daubers so needs an ssd
 * brobostigon is starting to hate androids FB client, it is slow, and unstable.
<daubers> brobostigon: I've only been using it a few days but am not having any problems
<brobostigon> daubers: the thing that is significant, it is much slower at loading, and scrolling, and loading different parts of the app, aswell as higher memory and cpu usage.
<daubers> brobostigon: Not noticed that on mine
<brobostigon> daubers: what android are you on? i am using AOSP 2.3.4
<daubers> brobostigon: What phone/firmware?
<daubers> I'm still on 2.3.3 as that's what came with the Galaxy S II
<brobostigon> daubers: AOSP 2.3.4 htc dream
<brobostigon> everything else is working fine, except this.
<AlanBell> morning all
<daubers> Morning AlanBell
<daubers> AlanBell: I've a 24TB box (18TB useable) set aside for oggcamp now \o/ (as long as my boss doesn't sell it....)
<brobostigon> morning AlanBell
<AlanBell> daubers: awesome :)
<daubers> AlanBell: It's got a 10GbE trunk link in, so I'll try and grab a switch as well
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Matt Daubney] Day 3: Printers and Development - http://daubers.co.uk/2011/07/03/day-3-printers-and-development/
 * AlanBell likes openshot integration with Blender in Oneiric
<AlanBell> in fact this is awesome, it can do rendered animated titles from a template
<gord> i can't use the new blender =\
<gord> they changed the keybindings, so i try and do something and it takes me somewhere else, so i try and get out of there and i get taken to a third place! its a maze
<AlanBell> I just fired it up and thought, finally, a blender I can use!
<gord> yeah i'm sure its much better for people who are new to blender :) i am just stuck in my ways
<gord> trying to sign up to a website, it wants me to put in a "nickname" but it has to be over six characters. i don't think they understand the concept of a nickname
<gord> haha and i can't use "special characters" in my password. on geez
<brobostigon> oneiric has the same blender version as in debian sid,
<AlanBell> yay, I have unity running again on the oneiric box
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: now start calibre ;)
<gord> woo, what was the problem?
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: or full-screen vlc
<AlanBell> brobostigon: yes, they synced it because it couldn't install
<brobostigon> AlanBell: ah,i see.
<AlanBell> gord: I tried to do something in ccsm so it fell over in a heap
<AlanBell> just wish it had a better failure mode than booting to an empty wallpaper
<gord> if your session is set up correctly it should restart compiz if compiz crashes
<AlanBell> still can't run it on my main laptop for reasons I can't figure out
<MartijnVdS> gord: it doesn't restart the decorator bit if that crashes though
<AlanBell> compiz was running, but the unity plugin wasn't
<AlanBell> just trying to turn on the cube means it conflicts with wall and unity depends on something that provides largedesktop which they both do, but it disables itself during the process
<daubers> Apparently there are some people demonstrating Win 7 in the oracle in Reading...... tempting to go along and have some fun
<scoundrel50a> a couple of weeks ago, I ende up for one reason or another, installer via a .deb package, Oneiric. Now, since then I havent updated it, as I still cannot get the backlight to work, despite some help, it just wont run. I would like to be able to update. The only way I can do it, is remote ssh using my other computer, but I cannot remember the command, its a simple one, ssh ipaddress something, but I cannot remember the something....can some
<scoundrel50a> body help?
<AlanBell> touch almost anything in ccsm and the unity plugin gets turned off
<AlanBell> hi scoundrel50a
<scoundrel50a> Installing a kernel, I should say
<scoundrel50a> must make that clear
<AlanBell> ah you installed the Oneiric kernel
<scoundrel50a> yes
<AlanBell> know the package name for it?
<AlanBell> if so sudo apt-get remove <packagename>
<gord> compiz plugins are such a pain, they all conflict and such =\
<gord> sure would be nice if there were more compiz developers fixing all that ;)
<scoundrel50a> I want to update the kernel
<scoundrel50a> see if anything has happened that fixes the backlight problem
<AlanBell> gord: yeah, I understand that, just it seems unity depends on too much stuff
<scoundrel50a> I can do it via ssh, but I cant remember the full command
<scoundrel50a> to get to connect to this computer, using my other computer to update it
<AlanBell> I don't get why it has a hard dependency on largedesktop
<gord> AlanBell, i honestly don't know too much about the compiz->unity interactions, but yeah, it should be more fluid, let the user use whatever wall/cube they want, its just tricky inside compiz because compiz basically just says "here, do gl, don't worry about other plugins, just do gl"
<AlanBell> yeah, just wish unity would last a bit longer on my machines
<AlanBell> I want to do some compiz development too, I was just trying to get a dev environment set up and I end up without a desktop
<AlanBell> want to add text cursor tracking to enhanced zoom
<scoundrel50a> I think i have the first bit ssh ipaddress  what else
<gord> iirc we are getting one of our compiz devs to do a -classroom talk - so maybe pay attention there?
<AlanBell> gord: smspillaz did one a while back, I have been referring to that
<gord> yeah him doing it again :)
<gord> yell at him till he makes it nice to dev in ;)
<AlanBell> scoundrel50a: ok, so ssh user@ipaddress asks for your password then gets you a terminal on the other machine
<AlanBell> gord: yeah, will do
<scoundrel50a> ah, that is why I couldnt get it to work, thank you
<AlanBell> you can do "ssh ipaddress" if the user name is the same on both sides
<scoundrel50a> anybody know if the backlight problem is going to be fixed?
<scoundrel50a> mo, usernames different on both pc's
<AlanBell> scoundrel50a: where is the bug for the backlight problem
<scoundrel50a> I did try what you just said, but couldnt get it to work
<scoundrel50a> I cant remember what number it is, popey connect a while back, and tried to take a look, and he couldnt get it to work
<scoundrel50a> one sec I'll go take a look for the bug
<AlanBell> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~scoundrel50a you need to subscribe to it when you find it
<scoundrel50a> I have a different uesrname on launchpad, I'm trying to find it, one sec, sorry
<scoundrel50a> 759104 its marke high
<scoundrel50a> you need to read it through to get the whole message, and things I HAVE ADDED
<scoundrel50a> oops, sorry for the capitols
<daubers> bug #759104
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 759104 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "[gm45] Upgrade to Natty wont load" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/759104
<scoundrel50a> oh sorry, I dont know how to add bug numbers, thank you for doing that
<scoundrel50a> going to log off for a while see if I can update. What commands should I use?
<scoundrel50a> I'll boot into the Oneiroc kernel, then connect
<scoundrel50a> I just want the Oneric kernel to update
<scoundrel50a> ok, trying to see if I can connect, before I log off, but it keeps telling me connection refused, even though I have ticked the router settings to allow ssh, why would that happen, do I need to reboot the laptop to get it to work?
<scoundrel50a> cant connect, says connection refused,
<scoundrel50a> anybody?
<scoundrel50a> where did everybody go?
<scoundrel50a> thanks
<AlanBell> I went to cut the grass, and now I am off for lunch :)
<AlanBell> IRC operates at a slow pace, there is no hurry
 * suprengr wonders if AlanBell means he is about to go harvesting the marijuana crop ;)
 * daubers had gourmet sausage sandwiches and made the coffee
<AlanBell> I think if I am doing blender rendering I should probably not do it on an Atom chip
<daubers> ...... probably not unless you want to wait a loooooooooooooooong time
<AlanBell> the OLPC is probably not going to be good either
<AlanBell> however it looks like it might be possible to run it on my Natty laptop without catastrophic package breakage https://answers.launchpad.net/openshot/+faq/1299
<daubers> What machines have you got for editing on at Oggcamp?
<AlanBell> several atom class boxen
<daubers> Ah....
<daubers> That may be... slow
<AlanBell> it might
<daubers> I can donate my Core 2 laptop to the cause for the weekend and I can probably build another good (running a xeon of some kind) machine for the weekend as well
<daubers> How many are needed?
<AlanBell> there are three tracks
<daubers> So at least 3, possibly four?
<AlanBell> yeah
<AlanBell> my core i3 laptop is ok, but if I try anything that maxes out the CPU it does a sudo halt after a minute or two
<AlanBell> like it did just then
<AlanBell> I can also use my core i7 980ex server in the cloud which will render stuff fast
<xapel> Anyone else also have a problem with the twitter stream in Gwibber lately?
<daubers> AlanBell: Might take a while to get stuff to it though
<AlanBell> daubers: just thinking about the title rendering
<daubers> AlanBell: Ah, ok. I'm more worried about rendering the thing with the title added to the front
<daubers> Especially if we're rendering down to a different quality level for immediate upload
<AlanBell> that isn't too bad, it can't go faster than real time anyway I think
<daubers> Even on an atom?
<AlanBell> I think so, I was doing real time on a P4 1.6ghz which should be slower than an atom
<daubers> What codec where you rendering too?
<AlanBell> dunno, I need to do further testing on that
<daubers> heh :) h264 takes a fair amount of time, as does xvid
<daubers> h264 is generally playable on anything. I've no idea about rendering times to webm or ogv
<AlanBell> only needs to be rendered to something youtube won't barf on
<popey> i have a nice script which will convert to flv, ogv and webm
<AlanBell> and they will take .ogg if you are careful
<AlanBell> .ogv rather
<popey> so render out to something ffmpeg can cope with and then use the script to convert to other formats
<brobostigon> xapel: https://bugs.launchpad.net/gwibber/+bug/789851 i am experiencing that, myself.
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 789851 in gwibber (Ubuntu) "Direct Messages view won't work in a few weeks" [High,Triaged]
<daubers> http://www.google.com/support/youtube/bin/answer.py?answer=55744
<daubers> Doesn't suggest ogv unless it's webm
 * AlanBell installs openshot and blender on mumble.libertus.co.uk
<popey> I'd do flv/h264
<daubers> I'd just do h264, and then the NAS box has enough umpf to render to other codecs
<AlanBell> doesn't youtube re-encode anyway?
<daubers> render out to whatever while uploading to youtube
<AlanBell> just installing h264 codec on the atom box
<AlanBell> cloud based rendering isn't as spectacularly fast as I hoped
<AlanBell> however for the titles they just need to be done in advance, or 3 within an hour so they are ready to meet the video
<daubers> So we use the best machine possible for the titles
<AlanBell> perhaps, it has a budget of 20 minutes per title, or if we have three machines then they can spend an hour each
<daubers> How long does your atom box take to render the title?
<AlanBell> well we don't have a title design yet, so this is random openshot defaults
<daubers> heh :) Not found a blender dude yet?
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/oggcamptitle1.mpeg
<AlanBell> found several blender peeps, not given them the brief yet
<daubers> ah, ok
 * daubers hates java
 * StevenR wishes some of these events were up in the North.UK :(
<AlanBell> that mpeg was rendered on the i7 and exported to standard youtube square NTSC
<AlanBell> StevenR: go organise one
<daubers> AlanBell: How long did it take roughly?
<AlanBell> we totally will support it marketing wise
<AlanBell> daubers: 15 minutes or so for the rendering I think (including installing blender)
<AlanBell> I will do some timings later
<AlanBell> and I will do an H264 export in a sec
<AlanBell> StevenR: the last oggcamp was in Liverpool
<toast> hi all - gotta quick question - like a tool i mispelt my machine name on setup - this is really beginning to annoy me now - is it straightforward to change the name and will any servers on this machine start acting up if i do?
<toast> not public servers just sofware dev stuff
<daubers> toast: You need to change /etc/hostname and /etc/hosts you could add the old alias to hosts to help prevent breakage, but no idea what else that might break
<daubers> i.e. it is done at your own risk :)
<daubers> Google around for "changing hostname linux"
<AlanBell> anyone know why my laptop does a controlled shutdown if I max out the CPU for a bit?
<AlanBell> presume it is some kind of heat protection thing going on
<_serial_> sounds like over heating... my laptop kicks out around 100c
<AlanBell> yeah, could understand if it locked up or something but it doesn't, it does a controlled halt
<_serial_> does your laptop boot straight away when it has shut down?
<AlanBell> yes
<AlanBell> http://burnz.wordpress.com/2009/02/23/ubuntu-auto-shutdown-due-to-high-cpu-temperature/ this seems about right
<AlanBell> syslog:300:Jul  3 13:54:52 alanlaptop kernel: [243523.233981] Critical temperature reached (89 C), shutting down.
<_serial_> do any of you guys know if the log files would contain any over heating information?
<_serial_> bargain :)
<_serial_> yup over heating
<_serial_> i fixed my laptop with a fresh bit of thermal compound and heat pads for gpu etc
<toast> daubers:  cheers!
<StevenR> AlanBell: toastywarm (tm)
<StevenR> AlanBell: fluff in the cooling fan/ducts?
<AlanBell> might be time to clean it out a bit
<daubers> \o/ got my android app to talk to a sqlite database! Now just need to write the stuff to get the xml off the web to populate it when it's created
<popey> i took my laptop apart to clear out the dust
<popey> works much better now
 * StevenR has a tray for his laptop (so when I don't sit at a table, I have my laptop on the tray and it doesn't get full of fluff from my lap)
<_serial_> snap popey
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/oggcamp.mov that is in youtube HD format apparently
<popey> AlanBell / daubers http://paste.ubuntu.com/637514/
<popey> I do two pass encoding for h264 (libx264)
<s-fox> Hello.
<penguin42> tis nice out there
<reaper4334> it always seems quieter on here when the weather's nice out
<StevenR> MartijnVdS, AlanJenkins: I've sorted my audio out, thanks for the help yesterday :) .... The solution: MPD, with two output points "local pulseaudio" and "http stream". I can use vlc to play the stream on my laptop. This means I can switch between outputs while playing, and have one unified "audio place" for control.
<Myrtti> mpd â¥
<brobostigon> n800 :)
<Myrtti> yeah, I used mpd on it
<Myrtti> and 770
<brobostigon> i am trying at the moment, to get arduino output, visalised on n800, so using as an incar control.
<Azelphur> anyone know how I can delete the last line of a very large file?
<Azelphur> nano 100% cpu's and just messes me about :/
<popey> Azelphur: sed '$d' file > newfile
<Azelphur> ty :D
<StevenR> Azelphur: nano would probably work, but large files are hard.
<StevenR> so you might just need to be patient :)
<Azelphur> popey's method got it :P
<penguin42> popey: Oh that's quite nice
<penguin42> head -n -1 should also work
<daubers> La lal la la la
<pwb> Hi
<^aDaM> Evenings all :)
<^aDaM> I have a bit of a problem, I am trying to update Firefox to 5.0.. Im running Ubuntu 11.04 (Natty).
<^aDaM> I seen on google how to update via Update Manager, so I tryed that an it failed badly I get a error message when I try opening it?
<suprengr> & a load of glorious summer evening wishes to y'all
<^aDaM> Here is a Copy of the Error message on Pastebin and a Screenshot..
<suprengr> ^aDaM, tried Ubuntuzilla?
<^aDaM> http://pastebin.com/njKQYvnh
<^aDaM> suprengr: Nope :/
<suprengr> hang on will see if i've still got a link to it
<^aDaM> Screenshot of Error message..
<^aDaM> suprengr: Thanks, but no ta.. I just wan't to solve the issue with my Update Manager first :)
<^aDaM> http://i54.tinypic.com/15wncar.png
<suprengr> ^aDaM, .. np -that's cool
<^aDaM> suprengr: :)
<pwb> I have just downloaded ubuntu is an Antivirus needed
<^aDaM> Show me after..
<^aDaM> pwb: No.
<pwb> ok thnxs
<^aDaM> pwb: You won't get spam either, most you will get is hacked if you are in Root lol.
<^aDaM> And also a POP UP no an then :p
<penguin42> pwb: If the update manager tells you to update then do it!
<^aDaM> pwb: Ohh and what ever you do, do not.. I repeat, DO NOT TYPE FGKBV IN THE TERMINAL ;)
<pwb> ok thanks only I just d/l 11.4 so I'm new
<^aDaM> penguin42: Hehe at your reply, it's ment to be for me not pwb ;P
<^aDaM> pwb: Cool, here is the right place to start :)
<^aDaM> Welcome my friend, hope you enjoy using Ubuntu 11.04 (Natty).
<pwb> One mor ? what file do you open to install a d/l
<penguin42> what type of d/l?
<suprengr> ^aDaM,  just a thought... sudo apt-get check  ?
<^aDaM> Yea if it is Windows related pwb, you will need to use Wine to install .exe, win32 programfiles etc..
<pwb> Any type none in particular
<^aDaM> suprengr: Hmm ok.
<^aDaM> pwb: Ok, so eg.. say you want VLC Player to play movies such as .avi files etc..
<^aDaM> Go to Terminal, it should be on your left handside on the Taskbar..
<pwb> I heard about wine but I see there are diff ones to install
<^aDaM> If not go to topleft of the screen where the White Ubuntu logo is an click Media Apps..
<^aDaM> Then Accessoires..
<pwb> I looked for terminal cant find it
<^aDaM> Yea there are diffrent ones pwb, look on Google .. but I prefer Wine :P
<pwb> just called wine?
<^aDaM> Sorry about that pwb..
<^aDaM> My connection went :D
<pwb> NP
<^aDaM> Right make sure that you have clicked 'more then one result' above where the apps are..
<^aDaM> You will see the Terminal then.
<^aDaM> Just the right of where it says, 'Installed Apps'.
<^aDaM> :P
<^aDaM> Hit that Terminal open, and type
<^aDaM> Sudo apt-get install vlc
<^aDaM> type your password for your username ..
<^aDaM> It will load files an then it will say Y/N blinkin you just press y enter :P
<^aDaM> an it installs once its done just type vlc an it will open, hope that helps..
<^aDaM> so do the same, sudo apt-get install but with wine ;)
<pwb> ok thanks guys i'll be back later but got to go now
<Laney> what's wrong with software centre?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] Elisabeth Sladen - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2011/04/19/elisabeth-sladen/
<Myrtti> o____^
<AlanBell> Myrtti: looks like tony's blog feed refed it
<AlanBell> well I totally failed to get at the fan on this laptop
<AlanBell> removed 22 screws
<AlanBell> still wouldn't come apart
<AlanBell> replaced 21 screws
<Azelphur> the TIME+ value in top is how much CPU time the process uses right?
<AlanBell> yeah, roughly
<AlanBell> dunno if it is normalised for multi-core systems at all
<Azelphur> hehe
<ball> Has anyone here tried Ubuntu (pref. Xubuntu) on one of these new AMD "Fusion" things?  I'm thinking of an E-350 board for my sister-in-law's new PC.
<directhex> just a phenom with low-end radeon built in, isn't it?
<ball> directhex: I was thinking more like the Athlon II... doubt it has much L3 cache.
<ball> (if any)
<directhex> have amd put out a chip to rival intel for years?
<ball> directhex: Their cores are slower, but I just picked up a Phenom II X4 for Mrs. ball because it should work in her existing mainboard and give her a speed kick over the single-core Athlon she has now.
<hamitron> yes
<hamitron> directhex: but I'd guess, only if you want to worry about budget?
<ball> I just wondered whether the GPU part of a Fusion chip was used much by a Linux system, beyond Compiz
<ali1234> the prices aren't actually that different if you compare performance
<ball> ...are there Linux systems that use OpenCL for maths?
<hamitron> ali1234: I agree if only looking at the cpu, but motherboards with more features also cost less on AMD
<hamitron> I really wanted an intel cpu on my latest build, but the motherboards with the features, just cost too much
<directhex> wifey's new build is intel
<directhex> the cpu has a gpu, but i don't think the mobo chipset exposes it
<hamitron> I'm hoping to use the onboard gpu on my intel sometime :/
<hamitron> dunno if it will end well that :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] Splendid chaps, all of them - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2011/07/03/splendid-chaps-all-of-them/
<Kirior> silly question, any1 got google+ invites to give away?
<pwb> i tried to d/l google chrome but it wont install
<AlanBell> what is the package that does the avahi DNS discovery thing so I can type myserver.local in a browser and it resolves by magic?
<brobostigon> AlanBell: avahi-deamon ?
<brobostigon> avahi-autoipd ?
<AlanBell> cool, thanks
<brobostigon> there are dozens of avahi* packages.
<Laney> I think it's avahi-daemon actually
<Laney> see the package description
<JGJones> Quick question - what other recommended alternatives would you give for DynDNS.com (which also use ddclient?) - I've tried to get ddclient to work with DynDNS.com but it never can find my domain, or I get invalid login etc etc)
<ali1234> anyone know where i can get some organizer boxes?
<ali1234> for cheap?
<hamitron> for nuts and bolts, kinda thing?
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> http://www.criaturascreativas.com/756-1377-thickbox/plastic-organizer-box.jpg
<ali1234> this kind of thing
<ali1234> must be made of that kind of transparent plastic, must have a range of different size compartments, must NOT have removable dividers because i hate those
<ali1234> and above all must be super cheap
<AlanBell> JGJones: no-ip.info perhaps
<hamitron> ali1234: my Dad tends to get a lot of that kind of thing from screwfix
<hamitron> not sure if they supply them empty though
<ali1234> the website is down :(
<hamitron> oh :/
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
#ubuntu-uk 2012-06-25
<dogmatic69> ali1234: any idea why that (if it was) ARP error is only between the two pc
<dogmatic69> *pc's
<ali1234> nope
<dogmatic69> hmm, 'arp' on the server is instant. On my pc it takes 20 seconds
<ali1234> try arp -n
<dogmatic69> will now
<dogmatic69> 'time arp' -> http://bin.cakephp.org/view/1950993653
<dogmatic69> arp -n is instant
<dogmatic69> hmm, I just noticed in that paste. on my pc it does not find the name of the router, but the server has it
<dogmatic69> server: myrouter.home pc: 192.168.0.1
<dogmatic69> ali1234: extra strange, when it is 'down' arp from pc reports myrouter.home and as soon as it is back up again the router name is gone and ip shows again
<ali1234> sounds like a DNS/DHCP problem
<ali1234> how long are your leases?
<dogmatic69> I have it fixed
<dogmatic69> not sure about leases
<dogmatic69> well the router has the pc mac and its set to .3, server is .2
<dogmatic69> I have various others like printer and gf laptop also fixed ip's
<dogmatic69> turned off my iphone and printer now in case of conflicts but still the same
<dogmatic69> HA
<dogmatic69> ali1234: I hacked it fixed
<dogmatic69> echo 'myrouter.home 192.168.0.1' > /etc/hosts
<dogmatic69> :( premature happiness
<Azelphur> Anyone alive have any idea what's up with this? http://paste.ubuntu.com/1058409/
<Azelphur> trying to get grub to go onto someones raid array, and it's just not having it :(
<ali1234> how can i reply to a mailing list post that was posted before i subscribed to the mailing list?
<bubba> take me to chat
<AlanBell> ali1234: interesting question, I can give you all the headers and x-replyto stuff
<bubba> i would like to understand how to use this program
<bubba> i am a tad bit confused
<AlanBell> what program bubba?
 * mattt is sweepy :(
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning all
<mattt> morning morning
<bigcalm> Good mornings peeps :)
<bigcalm> popey: pull :)
<ali1234> HazRPG: remember flash fullscreen hack and chrome? what did you need to do to make it work?
<ali1234> anyone got google chrome (not chromium) installed and can pastebin /opt/google/chrome/google-chrome please?
<ali1234> it should be the startup shell script that calls the real binary
<MartijnVdS> fullscreen hack?
<nperry> Morning all o/
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: you know i've told you about it several times :)
<ali1234> http://al.robotfuzz.com/workaround-for-flash-on-linux-multihead-desktops/
<ali1234> we even discussed how i would implement it while i was working on it :)
<ali1234> "(19:37:59) MartijnVdS: ali1234: You are a scary man."
<DJones> Stupid MS, forgetting I was part of a trusted domain & not letting me log on to the network
<dogmatic69> ali1234: I seem to have fixed it
<ali1234> oh?
<dogmatic69> not on purpose
<dogmatic69> I read a blog, about arping
<dogmatic69> installed that and right after if finished net went dead
<dogmatic69> removed arping, still dead. so then added auto eth0 etc to /etc/network/interfaces and now fine
<ali1234> that makes no sense
<dogmatic69> well, has not died this morning yet
<dogmatic69> I know, it makes as much sense as the issue in the first place
<ali1234> i'm almost entirely sure the problem is caused by a rogue dhcp server or ip or mac address conflict on your network
<dogmatic69> and the issue had been constant for over a week so it was not a once of thing
<shauno> ali1234: if you still need it, http://paste.ubuntu.com/1058764/
<ali1234> shauno: thanks. i don't see anything in there that would break the wrapper :/
<shauno> (it says (c) chromium authors, but it is google-chrome-stable, not chromium)
<ali1234> close enough
<ali1234> that reminds me
<ali1234> # We don't want bug-buddy intercepting our crashes. http://crbug.com/24120
<ali1234> export GNOME_DISABLE_CRASH_DIALOG=SET_BY_GOOGLE_CHROME
<ali1234> does that work with whoopsie too?
<ali1234> no, it does not
<ali1234> so, anyway to do that?
<Laney> oh hey, nwolb started working!
<popey> ali1234, http://paste.ubuntu.com/1058784/
<popey> oh, too late :)
<gord> trying to do my coding entirely in a VM today, its actually working out pretty well :)
<gord> will need to get more ram for it though
<Laney> can't you access its filesystem from outside and just run the code inside the vm?
<Laney> sounds like it would be more pleasurable :P
<gord> that was the plan, but its running so well that i'm re-evaluating :)
<gord> eventually i'd like to get to the point where i can leave this machine on, enable virtualbox's remote desktop thing and be able to use the nice quad core i7 here at home to build and test new code from the laptop
 * Laney wants to start using lxc for most development stuff
<Laney> stgraber converted me (at least in intention, if not practice just yet) at UDS
<MartijnVdS> Laney: does that work nicely with desktop ubuntu though?
<Laney> what's 'nicely'?
<MartijnVdS> does it not break the desktop horribly
<Laney> you can run apps
<MartijnVdS> things like hot-plugging disks etc.
<Laney> infrastructure stuff would probably still need a VM
<MartijnVdS> Because we use openvz at work and it's very broken in all kinds of subtle ways.
<Laney> well I've not started doing it yet, so I guess we'll find out
<Laney> his demo just showed xeyes, so perhaps not the most stringent test :-)
<daubers> lxc?
<Laney> linux containers
<daubers> ah, ok
<gord> shows xeyes? ship it!
<directhex> gord, sounds like wayland!
<AlanBell> wayland \o/
<diplo> Is it in anyway worth seeing yet ( Wayland that is ) ?
<directhex> for most people, not until it's finished
<diplo> Saw a demo of Gears demo running on it a while ago
<bigcalm> Boom boom boom, let me hear you say Wayland
<diplo> Oh dear, someones happier this morning :)
<oimon>  is wayland named after smithers in simpsons?
<bigcalm> It's Monday, the best time of the week!
<oimon> got hit by a wall of crap even before i sat down today
<gord> i vote we ban bigcalm for getting that song stuck in our heads
<bigcalm> Bwuhahaha :)
<oimon> oh well, my lxde lasted a week, and the desire for a modicum of bling came back, so i'm installing cinnamon
<oimon> to see how the multi mon support is
<oimon> and the stability
<oimon> lxde is doing me well though
<oimon> except i like the expose features
<AlanBell> diplo: yeah, you can run "weston" right now, but it doesn't do much
 * diplo glad he is letting oimon do all the testing :P
<oimon> on my work pc
<diplo> Just searched for a few vids and yeah getting the same experience
<diplo> AlanBell: ^^
<AlanBell> there might be a basic system compositor based on wayland in 12.10
<diplo> Underlying code still mainly at the mo I guess and stability rather than much to show off
<diplo> nice
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<AlanBell> so that would be wayland from boot, then x runs full screen inside that
<diplo> Nice to hear they are still going
<gord> q:q
<gord> i'll just move over to the vim window then.
<DJones> This is not the terminal you are looking for :)
<diplo> lol
<diplo> I've just moved back to vim from IDE's for web dev / scripting
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> bigcalm: just rang the quit line of virgin media in order to get through to a UK tech, drastic but it worked, and it's amazing the info they are prepared to give when you do, VM don't support phone, mac os, or linux, I did feel like pointing out that the superhub came with a gpl3 license cause it is running on linux :D
<diplo> I always used to just say, yes I've clicked on that and yes I've done this
<diplo> Just so I didn't go through those arguements
<diplo> I don't need support on my OS, I am quite capable thank you
<diplo> Then again, I spoke to quite a few guys in tech up there that actually used Linux.. so it wasn't all headbanging against the desk
<davmor2> diplo: indeed but when they are trying to take control of your device in order to test you connection it's always good to know :D
<bigcalm> davmor2: fun times for you
<davmor2> bigcalm: I just got sick of getting the same junk from the indian call center, at least the English one was actually helpful
<diplo> yeah same here, I was with Blueyonder in the early days
<diplo> Actually got to know some of the techs by name until bugs / issues were sorted
<gord> be were really good last time i had a problem, did it all through a web im thing
<bigcalm> Going thought a web chat helps cut out accent troubles
<bigcalm> davmor2: glad you're attending on Wednesday. You can see Amo's disappointment when I let him play with my SGS3 ;)
<davmor2> bigcalm: HAHA harsh
<bigcalm> :D
<davmor2> bigcalm: of course if you show off too much I'll have a look at it and break it like the one in the shop :P
<bigcalm> davmor2: I'm keeping my things away from you!
<davmor2> bigcalm: I only open youtube and the web at the same time they had to restart the phone to fix it :D
<bigcalm> Haha
<bigcalm> Poor
<davmor2> bigcalm: I think there was a boat load of other stuff open
<davmor2> bigcalm: oh and by the way the swipe the activity list to close works on that phone
<davmor2> bigcalm: so it is an ICS feature
<bigcalm> davmor2: yeah, I notied it as well
<davmor2> bigcalm: I'm going to ping Motorola again today to find out where my ICS update is for the Xoom too, being as the USA has had it for a while and the USA Phones are now getting roll outs
<bigcalm> davmor2: yay :)
<DJones> bigcalm: davmor2 With you mentioning tablet updates, mine trnsformer got updated to 4.03 last night
<popey> ooh, my tablet should arrive sometime
<bigcalm> Lucky boy
<popey> coming from china so who knows when :S
<popey> DJones, prime or transformer?
 * DJones offers popey some asprin
<davmor2> bigcalm: https://www.facebook.com/121867580498/posts/10151124365075499 now to sit back and wait for a reply :D
<DJones> popey: Transformer Prime
<bigcalm> davmor2: you'll have a long wait
<bigcalm> (Is my guess)
<DJones> At least I'm assuming it was a 4.03 update, it could have just been a minor update & I hadn't noticed it was already on 4.03
<davmor2> bigcalm: to be fair they replied within a couple of hours the last time, if you don't rant and ask sensibly I found they reply, it's the Y U NOT F********************************************* ICS ********************* yet!!!!!! they tend to ignore
<directhex> where's ICS for my lumia 800, nokia? >8\/
<bigcalm> Nokia do android?
<ali1234> if they ported it to mono can't you just run it on top of winphone?
 * AlanBell would like ICS for galaxy S2
<davmor2> bigcalm: no I think directhex is being funny
<bigcalm> AlanBell: it's already out I thought
<bigcalm> davmor2: I see :)
<AlanBell> without a requirement for Kies
<bigcalm> No idea what that is
<bigcalm> AlanBell: have you considered CynogenMod 9?
<ali1234> AlanBell: unnofficial ICS is available for galaxy S
<AlanBell> it is a samsung windows application to do updates
<ali1234> dunno about S2
<ali1234> and you don't have to use kies
<bigcalm> Will it work in wine?
<AlanBell> they won't do an over the air update for some reason
<ali1234> you can use odin instead
<AlanBell> doesn't work in wine, doesn't quite work in virtualbox
<ali1234> odin doesn't care about signed images and such
<ali1234> i think it's called odin
<AlanBell> yeah, I might put cyanogenmod or an unofficial ICS build on it with odin
<ali1234> it's the quick-and-dirty flashing util rather than the consumer one
<ali1234> also ICS is available for N9 and N900, though it's probably extremely buggy
<AlanBell> bigcalm: there is only a nightly build of CM9 for the S2, stable and experimental builds are CM7
<bigcalm> AlanBell: yep. 9 isn't stable yet
<bigcalm> AlanBell: live on the edge :D
<AlanBell> I might
<bigcalm> CM7.2 is 2.3.7, CM9 is 4.something
<AlanBell> boot to gecko is my other "on the edge" option
<bigcalm> My Nexus One won't get CM9
<bigcalm> But that doesn't matter, my dad is having it this weekend :D
 * dwatkins wonders if they will provide CM9 for the HTC Ace
<ali1234> what are the requirements for boot2gecko?
<bigcalm> Hayley wants a new phone because I have the SGS3 now. I've suggested I put CM 7.2 on her HTC Wildfire. She hasn't said no...
<ali1234> http://www.unlimitedtips.com/2012/02/how-to-install-mozillas-boot-to.html
<AlanBell> https://wiki.mozilla.org/B2G
<AlanBell> https://wiki.mozilla.org/B2G/HardwareRequirements
<AlanBell> interestingly ARMv6 so it might run on a raspberry pi
<ali1234> what are the kernel requirements though?
<ali1234> what graphics and telephony apis does it need?
<diplo> bigcalm: I have 7.1 on my Wildfire I believe
<diplo> Can't remember if it's .1 or .2
<bigcalm> .2 went stable only recently
<diplo> So .1 then :)
<oimon> i hear there's some great speed improvements done by linaro guys to android..will they make a CM release?
<oimon> witht eh improvements
<diplo> 7.1.0.1-buzz Android V : 2.3.7
<diplo> bigcalm: One thing, if Hayley uses GPS you need to update the software for the radio as well
<bigcalm> diplo: aha, ta for the tip
<directhex> pfft. buy a cheap lumia!
 * directhex flees
<diplo> heh, took me a while
<kvarley> Where do user applications go in ubuntu? I mean where do user specific .desktop files reside? Many are in /usr/share/applications but some apps I have installed to my user account have files elsewhere it seems
<ali1234> ~/.local/share/applications/
<kvarley> ali1234: Thanks =]
<davmor2> bigcalm, popey: by the way if you have a super hub and you have any devices that use b/g lan/wireless then drop the speed from 300 to 143 or whatever it is in advanced settings and it goes faster don't ask me why
<popey> ooh
<popey> i get random disconnects on wifi so i mostly dont connect to it
<bigcalm> davmor2: I don't use the superhub as a router. I have it in modem only mode and pass traffic on to something that has more brains
<Daviey> bigcalm: And it doesn't keep crapping out?
<bigcalm> Daviey: nope
<bigcalm> Daviey: it's been solid in modem only mode
<Daviey> It's how i have one here.. but reliability is less than perfect
<bigcalm> Recently connections have taken a while to get going, but I think that's a problem with VM's network rather than my hardware set up for a change
<davmor2> Daviey: mine is dying a death once I get to about 17:00 ie all the kids home and the adults too
<bigcalm> Yeah, have to make the most of one's connection during the day
<davmor2> Daviey: all I get told it there is a high utilisation issue reported against your area it will be fixed in a months time
<Daviey> davmor2: "Ok, i'll start paying my bill in a months time"
<davmor2> Daviey: or do what I do which is rant at the leaving depot till they put you through to the UK tech team then rant at them for 20 minutes then get  told you'll be subsidised for the month that it is known to be faulty :D
<ali1234> ring them up and tell them your internet is too fast
<DJones> AlanBell: Did you pick up that you can register for menshn now
<brobostigon> can i ask someone a favour, please. do anyone have mumble installed?
<AlanBell> brobostigon: yup
<popey> yup
<brobostigon> AlanBell: can you conenct to mine.taylorworld.me.uk fine. port 64738.
<popey> :(
<brobostigon> whats wrong?
<AlanBell> that works
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> AlanBell: could i be heard, ok?
<AlanBell> I was talking to your friend, but I just got a phone call so dropped out
<brobostigon> ah.
<popey> i connected and spoke to someone then disconnected
<brobostigon> ok, thank you popey
<DJones> AlanBell: http://aggbot.com/Technology-News/article/17166802 Re Mensch
<AlanBell> yeah, I read that earlier and had a look at the site
<AlanBell> it is a fairly bespoke php application using jquery and a few other libraries
<gord> oh god i finally sounded out the name of that thing... its "Mention"
<AlanBell> with a Louise Mensch vanity twist on it
<gord> wush dawnt weh muke hup awl owr wards?
<nperry> Looks like the server has crashed...
<nperry> Menshn is horrible.....
<shauno> oh dear.  I've finally discovered why we don't like mondays.  someone's discovered a worm on a production machine, which infects via an 8 year old vulnerability in phpbb.  on a machine that shouldn't be running php, let alone phpbb, at all.  This is my sad face.
<mattt> gord: scottish?
 * mattt plays the sad trombone for shauno
<gord> mattt, no, you could kind of make out what i was saying there, if it were scottish it would just be random letters
<gord> i bet scottish people make excellent random number generators
<mattt> oh burn
<bou> what can stop thunderbird checking / attempting to check emails while sending error "connected to server"?
<bou> error => message
<brobostigon> !info flashplugin-nonfree unstable
<lubotu3> flashplugin-nonfree (source: flashplugin-nonfree): Adobe Flash Player - browser plugin. In component contrib, is optional. Version 1:2.8.3 (unstable), package size 17 kB, installed size 136 kB (Only available for i386; amd64)
<Twinkletoes> In the same way that setuid and setgid, force inheritance of owner/group, is there any way to force inheritance of rwx attributes?
<popey> AlanBell, is other alan in the office? if so, tell him we were at the dodgsons at the weekend :)
<AlanBell> he isn't in the office, I think he is being daddy taxi driver
<popey> ahh
<gord> we are quite lucky there are really only three active alans around at any given time, else we'd start having to use terms like "the other-other alan"
<bigcalm> gord: coming to the Wolverhampton on Thursday this week?
<gord> bigcalm, nope! but i have a valid excuse other than its already thursday and i forgot this time - laptop K/L keys had a bit of plastic snap in the assembly making them almost useless. can't work on the laptop till replacement keys come in the post
<bigcalm> gord: let you off :)
<bigcalm> Why were you hammering kl?
<christel> i am still jealous of your coworking days :(
<bigcalm> christel: more reason you should move to the West Midlands and join us :)
<gord> i wasn't, i just don't treat my laptops with much care ;)
<gord> though... i am a vim user
<AlanBell> christel: come and work with us for a day
<gord> and a nethack player
<christel> AlanBell: YES!
<bigcalm> gord: that'll do it :)
<christel> bigcalm: the midlands are full of the great unwashed :(
<bigcalm> christel: if it helps, I'll have a shower tonight
<brobostigon> is there a bank holiday anytime soon?
<christel> not before the august bank holidays i assume?
<brobostigon> ok.
<brobostigon> thank you christel
<bigcalm> brobostigon: no, but it's my birthday on Saturday
<brobostigon> bigcalm: :), mine in a months time also.
<bigcalm> Which other people keep reminding me about. I honestly keep forgetting about it
<bigcalm> brobostigon: yay for getting older!
<brobostigon> bigcalm: i will be the great old age of thirty.
<bigcalm> 33 for me
<popey> christel, me too
<popey> have been considering what to do about hackspace, home working etc
<popey> i think I'm going to press on with converting my garage to an office
<brobostigon> bigcalm: ah.
<christel> aw i was hoping you'd go for hackspace office-ing!
<popey> i might do that too
<gord> i have to have a seperate room for an office, tried just using a corner the living room  once and it drives you mental
<popey> but I worry that i wont be able to trust the place with my computer kit
<gord> and spend lots of lunches out away from the house too
<popey> yeah, i have a separate room
<christel> popey: we'd want/need lockable office space
<popey> but under pressure to convert that into a kids playroom
<popey> which boots me out to the garage
<popey> which isnt a bad thing
<davmor2> bigcalm: Oi I hope you don't think I'll be nice to you cause it's your birthday bud :D
<christel> (the question is whether we'd need to then further divide the office space or whether we'd trust other office people i guess)
<christel> one of the properties (the farnham one) in the space search has office space on a separate floor (with lockable doors etc) which i found quite an attractive set-up
<popey> i thought the mytchett place was great, but people seem to not like the price
<bigcalm> davmor2: I didn't know I was going to see you on Saturday
<bigcalm> Ah well
<christel> popey: is that the lindford lane one?
<popey> yes
<davmor2> bigcalm: no but you are on wednesday and thursday :P
<christel> that and the farnham one are the top 2 for FC and myself (pre-viewing)
<christel> (i'd quite like to go view those two before the next meeting -- so if you, me and alan (wood) can manage to agree on a day early next week maybe we could make an Appointment?)
<popey> sure
<christel> \o/
<czajkowski> there are more alans
<czajkowski> good lord
<gord> you guys are lucky, i can't even convince the midlanders to go to a better coffee place :P
<christel> czajkowski: yes! yet another with a four letter, one-syllable surname...
<czajkowski> gord: simples move down this way :)
<christel> (one of these days i will change my name to Alan Fake by deedpoll)
<christel> just to fit in like
<brobostigon> deedpoll. :)
<christel> gord: start a hackspace and get some office space with it ;)
<christel> gord: also i found the naysayers became much more positive and receptive after feeding them brownies!
<DJones> I'm looking forward to this arriving http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/46227/sky-go-ics-coming-soon
 * daubers considers finishing work for the next two weeks \o/
<bigcalm> For good?
<daubers> Nope, two weeks of holiday
<bigcalm> Oh, for
<daubers> \o/
<bigcalm> Missread it as quitting :)
<daubers> heh :)
<daubers> Nope, seriosul;y looking forward to holiday after 3 months of buying house/mending house/waiting to see if my brain is eating itself/finding out my brain isn't eating itself/mega stress at work
<davmor2> czajkowski: Prod!
<bigcalm> Grrr. Why aren't these rewrite rules being followed on the live server?
<bigcalm> Works fine on test
<czajkowski> davmor2: herrro
<davmor2> bigcalm: because it hate you, hate it back it works for me
<davmor2> bigcalm: here borrow MjÃ¶lnir off me just give the server a tap on the top right hand corner and it should start behaving
<bigcalm> Nerd
<bigcalm> :P
<davmor2> bigcalm: biggest hammer I could think of :D
<daubers> davmor2: Biggest hammer I could think of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otCpCn0l4Wo
<davmor2> daubers: haha
<daubers> Out of office set, all bzr repos pushed. HOLIDAY TIME!!!!
<daubers> WOOOOO
<christel> i want a holiday!
<bigcalm> Aha. The .htaccess file is being ignored. I bet it's because it's using the SSL host
<bigcalm> daubers: have fun :)
<bigcalm> It's 5.15pm. I can't be doing with the rest of the day
<DJones> Go to bed then
<bigcalm> The rest of the work day that is
<DJones> 7 hours sleep, it'll be tomorrow, a nice early start
<bigcalm> All 45mins of it
<DJones> Is it tht bad a day
 * IdleOne authorizes christel's vacation request
<gord> if daubers gets a holiday i want a holiday, its not fair
<gord> bring enough for the entire class
<bigcalm> DJones: na, just feeling lethargic after getting a client's site updated with several months of development
<bigcalm> 45mins and I can then work on a more interesting project
<bigcalm> That strangely requires me to use Unity
<gord> hurrah
<bigcalm> Might treat myself to chicken meat and chips
<bigcalm> Mmmm, fatty
<gord> been thinking about playing with the other Unity, might schedule myself a bit of a programmers holiday sometime later in the year and make a fun little game with it
<davmor2> bigcalm: Oh shut up and play on your new phone ;)
<gord> what i miss from freelancing, can't just decide i'll take this week off to learn something new
<bigcalm> So Unity coming to Unity isn't at all confusing :)
<gord> the other unity is only on Unity 3.5, soon to be 4.0, we are on 5.0, obvs better.
<davmor2> bigcalm: get it right Unity 4 3d is coming to Unity 5.x sometime soon
<gord> unity does have weird licencing, you can get the pro version for $1500 or the free version which can render the equivilent of glxgears
<czajkowski> gord: do you actually take holidays ?
<gord> i do! but i'm often busy =\
<davmor2> czajkowski: no he just codes on non-work related stuff
<gord> i actually have a fun trip to south korea later in the year
<gord> though they have fantastic internet there and its a long flight, so i'll still code things
<davmor2> hahahahahahaha see
<bigcalm> Sounds like me
<bigcalm> I got away with working on the trip to Northern Ireland. But it was a no-no once we were there
 * popey tickles bigcalm 
 * bigcalm hazars!
<davmor2> bigcalm: so was the SGS3 worth it?
<bigcalm> davmor2: worth it in which sense?
<bigcalm> popey: was that a code or mc tickle?
<davmor2> bigcalm: the hype, the wait, the features etc etc etc
<bigcalm> Ah
<bigcalm> davmor2: yeah, I'm glad I waited. Despite its size, it's more comfortable to hold than the HTC One X. I rarely listen to hype, went on features and longevity for CyanogenMod use in a year or so. Haven't used every bit of the phone yet, so can't comment on features. Overall I'm quite happy
<davmor2> bigcalm: you're useless you've had it longer than ten minutes you should of used everything in that time ;)
<bigcalm> Ha
<popey> bigcalm, neither, busy busy right now.. will be coding later though, no minecraft until code is done
<bigcalm> popey: sensible lad!
<bigcalm> I'll do some coding after tea
<bigcalm> Speaking of which, I'm home alone
<bigcalm> Chinese takeaway or chippy?
<jacobw> thai, if available
<jacobw> less guilt
<bigcalm> No thai around here that I know of :(
<bigcalm> I'd have to drive to Telford for Thai :(
<christel> mmm thai
<Azelphur> Trying to install Ubuntu on a machine that has intel fakeraid, grub just will not install :(
<Azelphur> even with boot-repair, it still won't install. Any ideas?
<Azelphur> where's all the GRUB experts when you need them :P
<diplo> evening all
<Azelphur> AlanBell: afternoonings :p
<AlanBell> don't you just hate it when you sudo halt in the wrong window
<jpds> Azelphur: #ubuntu-boot ?
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> jpds: good idea, I'll head there
<Azelphur> jpds: YOU LIED TO ME, there's one person in that channel :(
<Azelphur> and I think it's a bot.
<jpds> Last used  : Sep 16 14:20:05 2009
<Azelphur> lol
 * AlanBell needs to hassle someone about a bootup bug
<AlanBell> quantal is booting silent at the moment
<Azelphur> nobody can help me with grub on raid? :(
<davmor2> gord: can wed expect to see you on Thursday that'll be the day after Wednesday :D
<popey> Azelphur, when you say "intel fakeraid", how has the raid been setup?
<Azelphur> in the bios utility, the raid the motherboard has built in
<popey> no, i mean, how are the disks laid out
<popey> what raid level etc
<Azelphur> one striped array and one mirrored array
<popey> ok, why?
<popey> is it dual-boot?
<Azelphur> yes, dual boot
<popey> windows?
<Azelphur> and as for why I dunno, it's not my raid :)
<Azelphur> yep, windows
<popey> ok, so I wouldn't touch that with a 10 foot pole
<Azelphur> lmfao
<IveBeenBit> Striped array is for running the OS/applications for massive speed and performance gains. The mirrored one is for holding data exclusively
<Azelphur> ^ it's his raid :P
<IveBeenBit> Works great in windows. :-P
<popey> use windows then :p
<Azelphur> that's a bit like saying norton works great in windows
<popey> fakeraid is not a great solution
<Azelphur> that's good and all...but why would you want it
 * Azelphur told him that
<popey> we can support it with dmraid in linux
<popey> but I personally wouldn't
<popey> its not reliable enough
 * Azelphur told him that too
<popey> ^5
<Azelphur> :D
<popey> is it a clean install or an old one?
<popey> (of windows)
<IveBeenBit> it was clean I built the computer myself liek 2 or 3 weeks ago
<IveBeenBit> I partitioned the drive for Ubuntu last night, using the windows disk manager, if tha tmakes a difference
<popey> it makes no difference really
<popey> personally I wouldn't use dmraid, but for better performance use an SSD for the OS (and apps) and spinning rust for data
<popey> and backup regularly
<Azelphur> popey: exactly what I said/do, ssd+rsnapshot :D
<popey> on my windows/ubuntu dual boot box I have one SSD, which is split, half windows, half Ubuntu for booting
<popey> then another 1TB disk for the data
<popey> and its all backed up to another host/disk
<IveBeenBit> maybe 1 day I will get there. For now I am just tryin gto give linux a whirl. I haven't used unix stuff since college 12 years ago
<popey> fakeraid mirroring is largely useless, most people I know who have used it and had a failure have never managed to get data back from the mirrored part
<popey> sorry to be all downer about it :(
<jacobw> mdraid?
<Azelphur> popey, pro at saying all the things that I said :D
<Azelphur> I very nearly had data loss on fakeraid myself
<popey> mdraid is no good for windows
<jacobw> oh, nevermind windows :p
 * jacobw loses interest
<popey> if I were you IveBeenBit I'd ditch the fakeraid and just have one disk for ubuntu and one for windows
<Azelphur> same
<popey> if you need lots more space for windows than Ubuntu (maybe for games) then make windows all of one disk and partition a chunk of the other disk as FAT
<popey> to share between windows and ubuntu
<popey> so disk 1 is all windows
<popey> disk 2 is part ubuntu, mostly FAT
<Azelphur> haha, PvP in my minecraft server is hotting up, https://dl.dropbox.com/u/10108741/2012-06-25_00.38.52.png
<IveBeenBit> OK maybe I will do that. I gotta decide how badly I want to get into this linux stuff. I liked the interface when I was using a live CD, figured I had plenty of spare room to put linux on
<IveBeenBit> give it a try, get used to it, maybe just go straight linux down the road once I got used to it
<popey> yeah
<Azelphur> that's pretty much what I did :)
<popey> if you have an old hard disk, chuck that in as well, install ubuntu on that to keep it separate from what you already have setup
<popey> then if you dont like it you can yank the disk, no harm done
<popey> and near zero effort
<IveBeenBit> hmmmm
<IveBeenBit> maybe I can do that
<IveBeenBit> I already have 5 HDs in this computer, but I think I have some more SATA ports for more
<Azelphur> hehe
<IveBeenBit> I can check the manual to make sure it can handle it, and maybe try to buy a used hard drive from someone or something
<popey> blimey, 5 drives!?
<popey> I have reduced all mine down, and put the storage in a server
<Azelphur> I have 5 too
<IveBeenBit> I was going to do that, but decided to make this computer act like a server as well
<Azelphur> 1tb x 2 500gb x 2 + ssd
<IveBeenBit> mine is similar to Azelphurs, but all my spinning drives are on 2 different RAID arrays
<IveBeenBit> yeah my mobo has space for 2 more SATA connections. I didn't use them cuz they're controlled by a Marvell controller & my friend told me that it sucks. But maybe I can put ubuntu on that
<Azelphur> :)
<IveBeenBit> what's 1 more hard drive?
<Azelphur> or ditch the fakeraid before you loose all your data
<IveBeenBit> I like my fake raid
<Azelphur> you won't when you loose all your data :P
<IveBeenBit> like I explained the striped one has got stuff that can be replaced without much work. I'm sort of expecting that one to go down in flames in a year or two
<IveBeenBit> (old disks)
<IveBeenBit> Azelphur: what was the name of that backup software for linux?
<Azelphur> rsnapshot
<gebbione> any suggestion on a software to handle microsoft money formats?
<diplo> I think a lot of them do
<diplo> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=786436
<diplo> Few on that list do for sure
<gebbione> i ll try gnucash
<diplo> thats the standard Gnome one from memory, not looked at them in a while.
<bigcalm> popey: buzz me when you're free
<Nafallo> popey: ping (re: esata on the hp micro server)
<popey> wassup?
<Nafallo> popey: have you got it working at all?
<Nafallo> :-)
<popey> yes
<Nafallo> did you have to do anything peculiar?
<diplo> I didn't but also didn't spend much time trying :P
<popey> note that the esata port doesn't support pm
<popey> so you can connect one single drive to it
<Nafallo> I thought it was supposed to be plug'n'play, not pray.
<popey> wfm
<Nafallo> oh. hrm.
<Nafallo> that could well be it...
<popey> you can't connect an array to it
<popey> you have to use a card
<popey> my array came with a two-port esata card
<Nafallo> I tried my DAS200
<Nafallo> well. damn
<popey> did it not come with a card?
<Nafallo> now I've spent Â£3 on a cable...
<Nafallo> no.
<Nafallo> you know my DAS200!
<Nafallo> you suggested I'd buy it a few years back :-P
<popey> i have a das400
<popey> or 401
<Nafallo> I know :-)
<popey> cant remember
<Nafallo> I guess that doesn't work with the eSATA either :-P
<popey> it works with an esata card, yes
<Nafallo> makes me wonder if it would work if I had an array on it.
<Nafallo> meh
<popey> and "works" with the onbard esata
<popey> where "works" means you only see one drive
<Nafallo> "works"?
<Nafallo> I see no drive.
<Nafallo> it is supposed to come up as /dev/sdX ?
<popey> as you'd expect, yes
<Nafallo> hrm. it doesn't :-P
<diplo> yeah the onboard didn't work on mine either, I may go and try to fix it in a min
<diplo> Give me something to do whilst kids are in bed :)
<Nafallo> diplo++
<Nafallo> popey: to be fair, mine is the 1.5GHz version...
<popey> Nafallo, lspci?
<bigcalm> When will 10.04 LTS server be able to upgrade to 12.04 LTS server?
<popey> it already can
<Nafallo> bigcalm: at 12.04.1
<diplo> .1 I thought ?
<popey> we just enable it at the .1 release
<Nafallo> unless you mean -d
<popey> you can do it any time before then
<bigcalm> I see
<diplo> Best thing to do from 11.04 ?
<popey> diplo, server or desktop?
<Nafallo> diplo: 11.10 â 12.04
<diplo> server on my HP Micro
<popey> yeah, 11.04 -> 11.10 then plough right on to 12.04
<popey> alan@homeserver:~$ lspci | grep ATA
<popey> 00:11.0 SATA controller: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI SB7x0/SB8x0/SB9x0 SATA Controller [AHCI mode] (rev 40)
<popey> 02:00.0 RAID bus controller: Silicon Image, Inc. SiI 3132 Serial ATA Raid II Controller (rev 01)
<bigcalm> How do I do so without getting the 12.11?
<popey> you wont get 12.10
<bigcalm> 10 even
<popey> try it and see :D
 * bigcalm pokes apt-get
<Nafallo> nafallo@wolf:~$ lspci | grep ATA
<Nafallo> 00:11.0 SATA controller: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI SB7x0/SB8x0/SB9x0 SATA Controller [AHCI mode] (rev 40)
<bigcalm> "sudo apt-get dist-upgrade" doesn't get me anything
<diplo>  lspci | grep ATA
<diplo> 00:11.0 SATA controller: ATI Technologies Inc SB7x0/SB8x0/SB9x0 SATA Controller [AHCI mode] (rev 40)
<popey> it wont
<AlanBell> do-release-upgrade -d
<popey> thats not how you upgrade
<AlanBell> with sudo
<bigcalm> I see
<popey> !upgrade
<lubotu3> For upgrading, see the instructions at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UpgradeNotes - see also http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/get-ubuntu/upgrade
<diplo> Samea s you Nafallo
<popey> read that
<bigcalm> I haven't upgraded any servers before :)
<Nafallo> diplo: and popey as well...
<popey> 00:11.0 0106: 1002:4391 (rev 40)
<diplo> he had an extra line
<popey> same PCI ID?
<popey> diplo, i have two cards
<diplo> ah :D
<diplo> Sorry missed that bit
<diplo> I'll find drive in a mo and test
<Nafallo> 00:11.0 0106: 1002:4391 (rev 40)
<popey> [693045.674945] [Firmware Bug]: APEI: Invalid bit width + offset in GAR [0xd7fc2210/32/0/1/0]
<popey> nuice
<popey> nice even
<popey> filling up my dmesg
<Nafallo> popey: you reckon I need something extra installed which I haven't?
 * popey shrugs
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1059588/
<popey> thats my lsmod
<diplo> Just need to find powersupply now, harest job i think
<diplo> :)
<Seeker`> I think we need to reset the internet
<Seeker`> too many wrong people
<popey> xkcd 386
<Nafallo> bah. I need to find my encrypted usb stick to download that pastebin...
 * popey hugs 2fa.py
<Daviey> popey: you have it as a hotkey aswell?
<popey> :D
<Daviey> usb pendrive? meh :)
<Seeker`> popey: they've overrun me :(
<Nafallo> popey: running btrfs as well?
<popey> ya
<bigcalm> "You have to download a total of 271 M. This download should take about 1 minute with your connection. " :)
<bigcalm> 1 min too long
<Seeker`> bigcalm: only 36Mbit?
<bigcalm> Seeker`: average was 10.6MB/s, peak was about 12.somthing
<bigcalm> Which is surprising as it's a bytemark server using the bytemark mirror
<Nafallo> popey: quite some differences
<popey> ?
<popey> oh lsmod
<Nafallo> you've got a lot more filesystems loaded than me to start with :-P
<Nafallo> and wifi
<Nafallo> popey: sata_sil24 is your raid card, right?
<popey> guess so
<Nafallo> yeah
<Nafallo> looks like it
<Nafallo> so yeah, nothing that helped ;-/
<diplo> It's not detected when I plug it in, maybe a bios setting ?
<diplo> Lots of posts on the web about it, but nearly all to do with WHS
<Nafallo> I didn't see anything...
<diplo> And not an answer yet
<Nafallo> my extra stuff was things I reckoned would be there :-P
<Nafallo> at least
<Nafallo> vlan stuff, iptables stuff, stp...
<Nafallo> usb_storage
<Azelphur> is it possible to get the drivers for a netgear wg111v3 and install them manually?
<Azelphur> can't use the hardware drivers thing because it has no internet connection of course :)
<popey> http://www.realtek.com.tw/downloads/downloadsView.aspx?Langid=1&PNid=24&PFid=1&Level=6&Conn=5&DownTypeID=3&GetDown=false&Downloads=true
<popey> copy across on a usb stick?
<Azelphur> sounds good :)
<Azelphur> popey: any way to know which one?
<popey> I'm sure there are guides online
<popey> probably on our wiki
<Azelphur> ok
<bigcalm> Yay, server appears to have survived the upgrade to 12.04
<grogoreo> hi
<grogoreo> I'm trying to get the output from from /dev/input/event3 which is my keyboard but need to convert this: "¿½ï¿½ï¿½" to a readable format. Any ideas?
<MartijnVdS> grogoreo: What are you trying to do? What is event3 attached to?
<grogoreo> MartijnVdS, my keyboard. I'm trying to find the code of the key pressed. So am guessing I need to convert it from whatever it's coding in
<MartijnVdS> grogoreo: I'd just use .. uhr
<MartijnVdS> dumpkeys ?
<MartijnVdS> wait
<MartijnVdS> showkey
<MartijnVdS> man showkey
<grogoreo> MartijnVdS, brill! That's it, ta. When searching how to do it I found some guy's c program, which didn't work, that does this.
<dogmatic69> popey: re: your tweet, what phone you got?
<popey> iPhone 4S
<dogmatic69> :O
<dogmatic69> how did you do that?
<popey> install U1 Files app
<popey> it has an option to upload your pics to U1
<popey> and you then subscribe to that folder on your computer, job done
<dogmatic69> apt-get install ubuntuone-client?
<popey> its installed by default
<dogmatic69> ok
<popey> you need to sign up for ubuntu one
<popey> you get 2GB free storage i think
<dogmatic69> I think I have before
<popey> tis nice and handy
<dogmatic69> so its like dropbox type thing
<popey> once all mine are on my pc I import them to shotwell and delete them
<popey> yeah
<dogmatic69> popey: on 12.04 its not installed by default, there is an icon which then asks to install
<popey> ah yes
<dogmatic69> cool, i had a login already
<dogmatic69> popey: "0 bytes of 5 GiB"
<popey> heh
<dogmatic69> almost 2x dropbox
<popey> "109.2 GiB of 125GiB"
<dogmatic69> lol
<dogmatic69> is that a work perk?
<popey> either that or I pay for it
<gord> i also potentially pay for all 60+gb of u1 i have
<Myrtti> on my Galaxy Nexus the UbuntuOne app stopped working
<Myrtti> not too worried though, at the moment I'm still setting it up
<diplo> Works a treat on my wildfire, glad they gave the options for different uploads
<Myrtti> (the phone)
<diplo> was missing at the beginning
<gord> typically only use the phone app for photo auto uploads
<gord> needs a poke sometimes, usually because it updated and needs restarting or something
<brobostigon> this is hilerous, on ch4, 8 out of temn cats, they are ripping it right out of jimmy carr.
<brobostigon> it is like the last ep of HIGNFY, with andus deayton.
<diplo> yeah was on the other night
<brobostigon> angus*
<diplo> They said it's ratings went through the roof on the radio on the way home today
<diplo> :)
<brobostigon> :)
<diplo> ratings = viewers
<diplo> :)
<brobostigon> not surprising really. :)
<bigcalm> Spending the evening compiling and installing - not really my thing any more
<diplo> compiling ?
<popey> anyone fancy confirming bug 1017703
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1017703 in compiz (Ubuntu) "Panel appears in full screen video on dual screen system" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1017703
<jacobw> i've heard there's been major advances in reversing the aging process ;)
<bigcalm> diplo: trying to get gitlab onto my server. Requires Ruby >= 1.9.2. Ubuntu doesn't have that as a package
<diplo> If you bring it up tomorrow popey I'll check if you don't get anywhere with it tonight.
<popey> ta
 * diplo googles
<diplo> So github run on your own hardware bigcalm at a quick glance ?
<bigcalm> diplo: yes
<bigcalm> I'm sure that it doesn't help that I know less than nothing about Ruby :)
<diplo> nice, funnily enough i was wondering if there was such a thing the other day when I made my first ever git commit
<diplo> :)
<diplo> Make that two of us, I followed a RoR tutorial a couple of years ago, that was my first and last attempt
<diplo> :)
<bigcalm> Right now, I'm following this to get gitlab running http://blog.compunet.co.za/gitlab-installation-on-ubuntu-server-12-04/
<bigcalm> I'm home alone tonight, so I have no idea when I'll force myself off to bed
<bigcalm> Might as well be productive
<bigcalm> I was working on work until my boss told me not to
<diplo> :D
<diplo> I used to be like that
<diplo> New job now and pretty much just do personal stuff if anything at all out of ours
<diplo> Seems a good tutorial, having issues ?
<bigcalm> Only when I try to use ubuntu packages instead of following the info and compile from source
<bigcalm> Yeah, really messed things up.
<bigcalm> Grrr
<bigcalm> Starting from scratch again
<diplo> Doing this at home ?
<bigcalm> Yes
<bigcalm> Well, on my bytemark server
<diplo> When ever i do stuff like this i get a vm and a agoogle doc/word doc
<diplo> follow tutorial and add stuff that I have had to change each time
<diplo> And keep doing install till I get it right
<diplo> I know i understand it then
<bigcalm> I would have installed correctly if I had followed this from the start :)
<bigcalm> Maybe I should spend this install time by writing in my journal
<diplo> Im reading through Reddit UbuntuApps Showdown thing whilst I wait for kids to go back off to sleep
<diplo> Or may just go and ring there necks :)
<bigcalm> Doh, I should catch up on uupc. Got 3 or 4 eps to listen to
<bigcalm> I've been busy...
<diplo> heh, I'm totally behind as well
<diplo> Used to listen at work
 * diplo is going to write a xbmc app for it
<diplo> Well try..
<diplo> Hmm, I have an idea for an app now, I may try tomorrow night
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] Why do Instagram photos work? - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2012/06/25/why-do-instagram-photos-work/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=why-do-instagram-photos-work
<Azelphur> is there any way to stop the unity side launcher from starting?
<stuphi> q
<stuphi> oops. Ignore me. :-)
<Seeker`> /ignore stuphi
<bigcalm> !ping
<lubotu3> another contentless ping... sigh...
<bigcalm> lubotu3: !ping
<bigcalm> Wow, lag
#ubuntu-uk 2012-06-26
<popey> morning
<ali1234> morning
<ali1234> is everyone ready for the ubuntu-devel flamewar between red hat and ubuntu developers?
<popey> hmm?
<ali1234> "[Ubuntu's] design decision makes it impossible for anyone signed with the Microsoft key to implement any kind of security beyond the bootloader."
<ali1234> this is pure out and out FUD and if nobody else points it out before lunch time, I will
<popey> oh, from mjg59?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> it's FUD because if microsoft permits such permissive bootloaders in it's signing program, then whether or not ubuntu does it, somebody else will. but if microsoft does not allow it, then any design decision by ubuntu is irrelevant, because it can never be implemented
<ali1234> of course the obvious conclusion is that microsoft will not allow it
<ali1234> i guess that's what he's trying to say, without directly stating it, because he doesn't know or isn't allowed to
<diplo> Morning all
<ali1234> actually there's a similar gaff in the original post in the thread
<ali1234> the reasoning behind not using grub2 is totally flawed
<ali1234> the claim is that an OEM could release a machine without the ability to enter setup mode and if that machine used a signed grub2 this would compell canonical to release the signing key
<ali1234> this is completely ridiculous on every level
<ali1234> firstly the GPL cannot compel anyone to do anything except come into compliance with the GPL
<ali1234> which in this case could be done by... ceasing to distribute the locked machines
<ali1234> or releasing a tool to unlock them using the platform key (the key itself would not need to be distributed, only the signed update)
<ali1234> but that's not the only reason the logic is flawed
<popey> you should perhaps reply on that list
<ali1234> for example, i could construct a UEFI firmware which verifies the GPG signature on the grub2 deb before executing it
<ali1234> so if the logic demonstrated in that post is true, you better stop distributing any signed debs for GPL3 applications
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu App Showdown: Gallery Of Progress - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/06/26/ubuntu-app-showdown-gallery-of-progress/
<ali1234> what is an "Ubuntu user picture"
<mattt> morning all
<mattt> wearing some new shoes today, and they're already killing my feet :P
<diplo> Right fresh install of 12.04 on my personal laptop
<diplo> See how unity works on there, and lets start my ubuntu app
<diplo> And see how badly I fail
<MooDoo> morning all
<jacobw> hey MooDoo
<bigcalm> Ug ug
<bigcalm> Using Markdown, can you make links use target="_blank"?
<ali1234> what is markdown?
<ali1234> http://daringfireball.net/projects/markdown/ <- this?
<diplo> bigcalm: Get gitlab working ?
<ali1234> according to the documenation I don't see a way to do it
<ali1234> bigcalm: you can do it by exploiting unsanitized variable bug in markdown:
<ali1234> [hello](http://foo.com" target="_blank)
<ali1234> result: <p><a href="http://foo.com" target="_blank">hello</a></p>
<ali1234> presumably you can inject arbitrary html and javascript using this method
<shauno> you can also include html verbatim in most implementations, so just writing the <a href.. you want to create should work
<ali1234> i prefer my method :)
<ali1234> it's cleverer
<ali1234> of course it will break if hey ever fix the bug
<nperry> I'd class it as more of a feature
<bigcalm> diplo: yep, I did :)
<bigcalm> ali1234: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markdown
<ali1234> too slow man i already answered your question before you answered mine :)
<bigcalm> ali1234: nature called :)
<bigcalm> So the answer is yes, but it's a hack. Or just use HTML
<bigcalm> diplo: looks really good
<ali1234> pretty much
<ali1234> any language which is "simpler" than html but then gets turned into html is always going to have it's limitations
<ali1234> otherwise it would be as complicated as html, just different. and therefore pointless.
<diplo> cool, will take a look then bigcalm thanks
<bigcalm> ali1234: quite
<bigcalm> It amuses me when things for Unity upgrade. Have no use for them yet it would be pointless trying to remove them
<ali1234> why would it be pointless?
<bigcalm> Ok, more effort than I'm willing to exert
<ali1234> some of them you actually have to remove if you don't use Unity, otherwise your system breaks
<oimon> its the "guess what DE oimon is using today game :D"
<ali1234> for example if you have the global-menu plugin installed, even if you disable it with the environment variable, the wxWindows applications will have no menu bar
<ali1234> also "sudo apt-get purge unity"
<oimon> ali1234, which DE are you on lately?
<ali1234> gnome fallback
<oimon> ah, seemed to experience some issues with that
<ali1234> actually gnome-fallback + compiz 0.8
<oimon> i think it was compiz related
<ali1234> if you attempt to use it with compiz 0. on precise you will run into bugs
<ali1234> compiz 0.9
<ali1234> (which really should be called compiz 2.0 because it is a completely different codebase)
<oimon> lxde fixed some quirks in GF though, and cinnamon is fixing the lxde quirks, i wonder what will fix the cinnamon quirks
<ali1234> what's GF?
<ali1234> and what does cinnamon have to do with lxde?
<oimon> gnome fallback
<ali1234> ok, how are these things related... at all?
<oimon> they are all DE's i have decided "this is the DE for me", in the last month
<ali1234> oh
<oimon> until a week in, and the quirks annoy you
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> just use gnome fallback with old compiz, it's great
<oimon> so i'm in the cinnamon honeymoon period atm
<oimon> i had issues with gnome-panel in fallback
<oimon> not all apps appearing
<ali1234> such as?
<ali1234> odd
<ali1234> seriously tho try old cmpiz it fixes LOADS of stuff on precise
<oimon> so pidgin would only show the autojoined irc channels, but i couldn't see the icon or open buddy list
<ali1234> i see pidgin do that sometimes
<oimon> checkgmail didn't work either, which is important for me
<ali1234> sometimes the windows disappear
<ali1234> but that happened on unity too
<ali1234> pidgin checks your gmail for you!
<ali1234> why use two programs?
<oimon> have you used checkgmail?
<ali1234> yes
<oimon> it's perfect
<ali1234> i have my gmail configured in a highly specific way
<oimon> can pidgin do what checkgmail does, via a plugin/extension?
<ali1234> i only care about getting alerted if new mail hits inbox
<ali1234> pidgin does that
<ali1234> then i open firefox
<oimon> i wanna hover and see what it is , who it's from
<ali1234> i don't care about that
<oimon> and even delete/mark as read
<diplo> oimon: I think unity mail does the same as CheckGmail
<ali1234> if a mail hits my inbox it's from someone important or someone who never emailed me before
<oimon> but fails at million and one other things
<ali1234> so i don't need to worry about checking the subject before loading up gmail
<ali1234> of course i always have a gmail window open somewhere at all time anyway
<oimon> i have thunderbird running full time too, but that's for work mail and i don't want to mix the two
<ali1234> usually several and at least one on every desktop
<ali1234> i don't use desktop email clients at all
<oimon> old compiz had an annoying bug that would crash my X session
<ali1234> yeah?
<oimon> if the tooltip was too long
<ali1234> wow
<oimon> so if i receive a mail , and hover over checkgmail, and the tooltip/title was too long it would crash compiz
<oimon> (not X)
<oimon> but i'd have zillion windows on all workspaces, so it would screw everything up
<oimon> could happen once a day
<oimon> also openoffice caused the same behaviour
<oimon> it's in launchpad but never got any love
<oimon> fixed in the 0.9 rewrite though
<ali1234> how to reproduce it?
<oimon> recieve an email from a hotmail account usually
<oimon> then hover on checkgmail icon
<ali1234> how to reproduce with open office?
<oimon> Bug #599723
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 599723 in compiz (Ubuntu) "Compiz crashes on Intel GM945" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/599723
<oimon> i've noticed it's specific to intel graphics card
<ali1234> ok
<oimon> i've added nvidia card in last couple months , so now moot anyway :D
<ali1234> so basically you make a toolti wider than the card's max texture size and compiz crashes
<ali1234> i bet it would still crash on nvidia if you got he tooltip big enough
<ali1234> like 10000 pixels wide
<ali1234> GMA945 has a really small texture limit though, 2048 pixels
<oimon> yeah
<ali1234> that's also the reason you can never get dual head to work properly with a 1920 monitor. you only have 128 pixels left for the other head if they side by side
 * AlanBell has a 2048px monitor
<ali1234> so then you can only do dual head if you put the second monitor abve or below it, and it is less than 512 pixels high
<oimon> since moving to 2 monitor setup, i've noticed pretty poor performance
<ali1234> ie you can't
<oimon> but it coincided with unity /compiz
<ali1234> (with GMA945 that is)
<ali1234> compiz 0.8 is much faster than 0.9 on nvidia hardware. my nvidia hardware anyway
<oimon> any web developers in here looking for low paid job?
<ali1234> how low paid?
<oimon> http://webapps.qmul.ac.uk/hr/vacancies/jobs.php?id=3106
<AlanBell> selling it well oimon ;)
<bigcalm> Something is causing ' and " to be escaped when viewing a site via https. ' and " are not escaped when viewing via http. So it's an apache/php config setting, but I can't find which one. magic_quotes_* are all set to off, so it's not those
<oimon> AlanBell, yeah, i should be on the apprentice on something with these skills :D
<ali1234> not low paid enough for me
<directhex> it's 2012. gma950 performance is... well, 945gm is a chipset from early 2006
<diplo> Skills = Dreamweaver, that is not a skill :(
<directhex> i guess atom extended the life of the 945 series chipsets :/
<ali1234> directhex: that, and the next iteration of intelgfx being extremely buggy
<oimon> my machine was a core2duo
<oimon> prob 4 yrs old now
<oimon> anyone using synapse launcher?
<gord> time for my few monthly facebook login to reset the settings, woo
<oimon> facebook have recently started showing me large pictures of other people's likes
<gord> apparently they changed everyones contact email to @facebook.com today
<oimon> e.g. i'm getting daily updates from asda and spiritual networks even though i didn't like them
<gord> sure have done mine
<gord> not the email they use to send you password resets or anything, no that goes to your actual email address. just the contact address on your profile
<oimon> gord, thats so that everybody's mobile will import fb email as a contact (unless you don't sync contacts like me)
<gord> also, til, facebook has an email service?
<directhex> i don't "get" facebook
<popey> yes, if you email that address they show as messages in your facebook
<directhex> it's designed by chimpanzees, as far as i can tell
<popey> and cunningly its not immediately obvious that they changed it
<popey> if you go to your own profile you see your correct email addy
<popey> but if you look at your 'wall' you see the fb one that others see
<directhex> actually, the average chimpanzee has far too much sense of order, logic, and aesthetic, to crap out facebook
<bigcalm> From a T-Mobile page: "You are using another browser that is not Internet Explorer 6.0 or above. With the browser that you are using we cannot guarantee the full functionality of this website"
<ali1234> yes and here is no way to change it
<diplo> Really bigcalm, someones not just pulling your leg?
<diplo> People are still doing that....
<diplo> :(
<bigcalm> diplo: www.t-mobile.co.uk/pmcollect
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
<diplo> Dear me :(
<diplo> Morning JamesTait
<diplo> I'd send a bug report bigcalm :P
<bigcalm> Apparently Hayley just sent me an MMS. Why my phone didn't just show it, I dunno.
<ali1234> ah you can change the email, but it's really difficult
<bigcalm> Can't see any pictures on that site. Will have to find a windows machine later
<diplo> dependant on a ActiveX component maybe bigcalm ?
 * bigcalm shrugs
<bigcalm> For some reason Hayley doesn't like turning on the data connection on her phone as it consumes too much battery
<bigcalm> Wish she'd just send the image as an email
<ali1234> what do you mean "for some reason"
<ali1234> that is a perfectly valid reason
<ali1234> 3G does drain the battery very fast
<bigcalm> Not an excuse in my book
<Dave2> Well, that is some reason
<bigcalm> I bought her a spare battery as well
<ali1234> what you should actually do is disable 3G and only use GPRS data wich uses much less power per kb
<ali1234> but not if you are on 3, because they'll kick you off if you do that
<ali1234> because they have no GPRS network of their own, it costs them loads of money
<bigcalm> Lovely
<diplo> I enable mine all day, have 3g/wifi on all day every day
<directhex> what uses power, oodles of power, is bad reception
<ali1234> and i bet you have to charge your phone every day
<oimon> and the display
<Dave2> I have everything turned on on my phone, but I leave it plugged in most of the day
<directhex> if you have excellent reception on 3g, you'll end up using less reception that 1 bar on gprs
<diplo> Every day and half or so ( not a very powerful phone )
<directhex> yes, and the display, oimon is absolutely right
<oimon> yeah directhex when i worked in the gherkin it was above the transmitters, and therefore got a v bad reception
<diplo> I plug it in when I go to bed
<Dave2> Working in a gherkin sounds unpleasant
<oimon> transmitters seem to be calibrated downwards for obv reasons
<ali1234> directhex: that's true too, and it probably is related to the phone prefering a weak 3G signal over a strong GPRS one, and GPRS having overall better coverage
<directhex> the backlight, and bad reception, are what eat batteries
<Dave2> also battery-eating monsters
<Dave2> don't forget them
<ali1234> my phone doesn't have any stinking backlight
<oimon> i dont make phone calls
<ali1234> OLED
<Dave2> actually, yes
<Dave2> neither does mine, for the same reason
<directhex> battery size, surprisingly, isn't a huge factor
<directhex> the OS is a bigger one, e.g. webos can barely last a day on a battery that a similarly specced phone lasts 2 or 3 easy
<Dave2> surely it's still a huge factor?
<ali1234> and noting comes close to symbian in battery life
<Dave2> ali1234: S40 does
<ali1234> true
<ali1234> let's put it this way: symbian is the only way to get battery life similar to a S40 phone on a smartphone
<oimon> but if the display is 80% of the problem, it's unrelated to the OS surely
<ali1234> the display isn't 80% of the problem
<diplo> Since having CM7 my battery lasts a lot longer with it's power saving settings
<directhex> Dave2, most smartphones have about the same size battery
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<directhex> motorola atrix is the last supersize battery phone i'm aware of
<oimon> ok, display is 50%
<oimon> mobile standby 14%, wifi 13% phone idle 8%, facebook 8%
<ali1234> the display is 20% of the problem, radios 20% of the problem, apps 60% of the problem
<Dave2> directhex: Galaxy Note appears to have 570 more mAh than the Atrix
<oimon> my phone would beg to differ
<directhex> Dave2, galaxy note is the size of a house. forgot people considered it to be a phone
<diplo> :D
<oimon> what's considered the best terminal app?
<oimon> gnome-terminal, lxterminal, konsole, guake etc
<oimon> facebook is introducing a close friends and acquaintances option. think i'll have to do this to avoid getting spammed too much
<brobostigon> i thought the android app, had that function already. i mean, i have seen it there already, months ago.
<oimon> they are forcing you to choose now though
<oimon> because i am not seeing all updates from my wife etc
<brobostigon> ah.
<oimon> even if i choose "all updates" in the drop down for each person
<oimon> its flipping annoying
<brobostigon> i can imagine.
<oimon> fb is already turning into a nightmare
<oimon> i give it 5 years
<brobostigon> i think google need to make google+ and the app, alittle more resource friendly, and i would be happier.
<oimon> the g+ app is hideous now
<diplo> oimon: Not sure about best but I use Terminator pretty much exclusively now
<dogmatic69> yey \o/ http://www.speedtest.net/result/2029664501.png
 * diplo adds dogmatic69 to hate list :(
<brobostigon> oimon: it works, but it is just slow, and uses too much resources.
<dogmatic69> diplo: BT infinity ftw
<diplo> Guy on Facebook keeps doing those, mine top at 6mb
<diplo> Yeah, certainly debating it
<oimon> fortunately i saved the old version on my phone from g+
<oimon> old one was cleaner
<oimon> for my tablet i've moved to flipboard instead of g+ app
<dogmatic69> diplo: I think I am paying 25 / 30 pm for phone and internet (uncapped)
<brobostigon> oimon: you are right, it should have a copy on the cd card. :)
<oimon> new g+ thinks everything needs a picture
<czajkowski> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/1004775  this is my new pet peve of a bug, I keep getting disconnected
<lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 1004775 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "NetworkManager restarts dnsmasq on every IPv6 route advertisement, thus very frequently" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<oimon> acquaintances list in fb is q useful though, it is essentially a group of spammy people that i can elect to receive only status updates and not shares from
<davmor2> Morning all
<czajkowski> davmor2: ello
<davmor2> czajkowski: Aye y'up 'ow am ya
<czajkowski> broken
<czajkowski> :)
<oimon> diplo, did you say you had centos 3 & 4 boxes still?
<diplo> CentOS4 and u pyeah
<diplo> no 3's though that I have come across yet
<oimon> 4 is EOL too though :(
<diplo> Been creating RPM's for them recently for SQLite :/
<oimon> any webservers :P
<diplo> All internal for our ancient app
<diplo> What are ytou after ?
<oimon> nowt , just noticed we stillhave a SL4 box that needs upping to 6
<diplo> I've suggested we update all our customers sites
<diplo> It wasn't a definate no, I even offered to do it :)
<diplo> WTH did people name an app quickly, and the other i want to use fabric
<diplo> It doesn't bode well with my google results, + my foo is sucking atm
<directhex> diplo, :)
<directhex> diplo, i should make this a selling point for mono - "fewer ungooglable names!"
<bigcalm> Anybody here running Ubuntu 12.04 on a Bytemark VM?
<diplo> directhex: Mono is my next project after this one
<diplo> Giving myself some little projects to get my head around some things
<diplo> Just fancied a little challenge so thought I'd take a look at this App Showdown and see how badly I can embarass myself
<directhex> current;y i'm busy being cross at how long it's taking for monogame to clear the debian NEW queue
<bigcalm> What the heck?
<diplo> Currently during work hours directhex
<bigcalm> My Bytemark VM is running a kernel that doesn't appear in /boot
<diplo> You don't do mono stuff day time do you from memory ?
<bigcalm> Where is it being loaded from?
<directhex> diplo, no, although i can put anything involving sparkleshare on the clock, as we use it internally for a project
<diplo> ah
<diplo> Still enjoying the new job ?
<diplo> Not so new now I guess
<directhex> diplo, not 18 months in, no
<ormiret> bigcalm: some VM setups keep the kernel outside the disk image
<bigcalm> Ah, as I rebooted the VM, I saw that it copied "the kernel into place"
<bigcalm> So I don't actually get to use the kernel I want to eh?
<ormiret> I've never actually used a bytemark machine but I expect there is some way to set what kernel it uses. It might be a poke a support person until they fix it type problem though.
<bigcalm> Actually: http://www.bytemark.co.uk/support/technical_documents/kernelchange?tags=ConsoleShell
<ormiret> That looks simple enough. Should I take bets on whether or not it's going to work?
<bigcalm> :D
<bigcalm> Fixed it :)
<BigRedS> whoop!
<bigcalm> Gitlab is really nice to use
<bigcalm> Just a rather long set-up/install process to get there
<bigcalm> I still haven't found out how to stop it from offering git clone URLS as git@localhost:foobar.git
<BigRedS> gitlab?
<nperry> Isn't the the open source'd self hosted version of github?
<bigcalm> bigcalm: Open source clone of github
<BigRedS> oooh,p pretty
<BigRedS> haha!
<BigRedS> even you do it!
<bigcalm> Oh f.....
<bigcalm> Ahem
<bigcalm> BigRedS: I'm sure you have now and then as well
<bigcalm> I hope so anyway :P
<ali1234> ruby dooby do :(
<BigRedS> I don't think I've ever put mine in by mistake...
<BigRedS> Hm, it does tab-complete to mine, but I need to have put the 'R' in
<BigRedS> Awww, ruby? Why do people keep writing things in ruby?
<BigRedS> Especially git things...
<nperry> BigRedS, what is wrong with Ruby?
<davmor2> gah just ran 2 speedtests first at 0.01 kbs, second 60.83 meg there is no rhyme or reason to this BB issue at all
<dwatkins> which ISP, davmor2?
<davmor2> dwatkins: VM at least my 20 meg connection stayed connected
<dwatkins> davmor2: might be worth checking the output of 'mtr' to see if the problems at your end or theirs, if you havn't already.
<dwatkins> e.g. run it against google's servers to see where the loss is happening
<davmor2> dwatkins: already spent 8 hours on the phone there is a high utilisation issue in my area which leads to random speeds and outage, like virgin didn't know it had customers in wolverhampton
<dwatkins> davmor2: oh bah :( I'd be considering switching to BeThere if I were in your shoes, and would be quite vocal about it to VM...
 * dwatkins recently left BT for BeThere and is extremely pleased with the result (central Edinburgh)
<davmor2> dwatkins: for my job there are 2 things I need a good speed and a reliable service unfortunately all the flats in heathtown have been virginised for years so to get a bt line in will cost hundreds I think last quote was about Â£238 so it's cheaper to keep complaining and have virgin pay my broadband bill till they fix the issue
<dwatkins> davmor2: hmmm, I have similar issues with needing a fast connection for VPNing. If the company will pay for the installation, it might be worth considering - alternatively, see if BT will do free installation if you sign up for 18 months (which is what I did, but then couldn't wait for the time to end so I could switch, after moving house)
<bigcalm> My connection appears to wolverhampton connected, I guess that says something about my connection trouble as well
<BigRedS> nperry: it's really picky about being the right version of ruby and each individual gem
<BigRedS> every ruby app I've installed for someone has taken forever to get working, and then broken on every upgrade
<BigRedS> that's mostly redmine
<BigRedS> perhaps RoR is worse than ruby for it, but whenever I see 'ruby' i think 'hell to manage'
<nperry> But redmine is the worst example of a RoR app. :D
 * AlanBell is using redmine
 * bigcalm is getting close to insanity
<bigcalm> I just want to find where localhost is being set as the path for repos
 * bigcalm sods quietly
<ali1234> oo-er
<bigcalm> sobs
<bigcalm> Oh no
<bigcalm> Bad typo
<BigRedS> nperry: ah, quite possibly. In fact, I'd hope so!
<directhex> bigcalm, any specific repos?
<bigcalm> directhex: all of them
<bigcalm> Well, there's 1 currently, so that's all of them :)
<directhex> deb file://path/to/repo/root distname/
<bigcalm> Huh?
<bigcalm> Wow, Something I changed finally made a difference
<brobostigon> deb http://mirror.ox.ac.uk/debian/ sid main
<bigcalm> You can all stand down now
<brobostigon> for example.
<bigcalm> Oh, not software repos. Repos. can also mean code repositories used by SVN, git, etc
<bigcalm> Humm the gimp doesn't know how to correctly work with workspaces
<bigcalm> Switch workspaces and the tools/layers windows are still visible
<davmor2> bigcalm: if it is gimp 2.8 enable single window mode :D
<bigcalm> davmor2: not really the point :P
<dogmatic69> new bt is fast, but seems like the connecting part is slow. Eg: open a site takes a few seconds doing nothing and then it loads pretty much instant.
<dogmatic69> could this be something internal, can I debug it in any way?
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: that's what I'm experiencing with VM at the moment
<davmor2> dogmatic69: switch dns from bt to opendns see if that has any effect
<dogmatic69> davmor2: I was looking to change the dns to my blade which forwards to google but it cant be done with the router I got
<directhex> dogmatic69, probably slow dns - bt's dns isn't instant, although it's miles better than be/o2
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: same trouble with the VM superhub. Which is why it's good you can have it in modem only mode and then use a router you can change DNS settings on
<davmor2> dogmatic69: you can switch your network setting to get ip address only and then add your own dns server address
<bigcalm> Yeah, annoying as it's not global across all machines on the network, but the only way to do it
<dogmatic69> davmor2: ye, but I want to set in on the router so everything has the config.
<dogmatic69> I run bind9 catching *.dev for web dev internally
<dogmatic69> my pc has the config you described, but I want to access *.dev on my iphone and ipad for example
<dogmatic69> changing the settings on everything is a pita
<dogmatic69> the only options available related to dns is 'dynamic dns'
<dogmatic69> just figured I can use chrome to check, and DNS lookups are taking 10sec
<dogmatic69> 6 packets transmitted, 6 received, 0% packet loss, time 25219ms
<dwatkins> I setup dnsmasq so my machines get DNS info from my server internally, so I can customise that all I want.
<dwatkins> alternatively, just set each client machine's DNS config manually, of course
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Iain Cuthbertson] Ubuntu 12.04 LTS on Bytemark VM - http://www.myrant.net/2012/06/26/ubuntu-12-04-lts-on-bytemark-vm/
<jacobw> whoop
<dogmatic69> my network button thing has disappeared from the top bar (12.04)
<dogmatic69> how can I access that now?
<directhex> that's nm-applet isn't it?
<MartijnVdS> restart nm-applet
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: I restarted the pc and still nothing, dont seem to find nm-applet either
<nperry> Grrrrrrrr
<nperry> That moment when you get a support ticket and you can't replicate it.
<nperry> And you get about ten in a row.
 * nperry rage quits
<dogmatic69> \o/ figured it out
<dogmatic69> no more slow dns times
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: what was the problem?
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: finally enabled IPv6 properlY? ;P
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: no, the network changed from 192.168.0.x to 192.168.1.x
<dogmatic69> my pc had the dns as .0.2 and should have changed to .1.2
<dogmatic69> bind9 on .1.2 was also still using .0.x ip's
<dogmatic69> I have ~20 tabs open in chrome all the time, and opening now all the tabs load pretty much instantly
<dogmatic69> before it took a good 2 minutes for them to all load
<dogmatic69> my network manager button is still an issue though. I have changed the dns in /etc/resolv.conf but that is cleared on reboot
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: look at resolvconf rather than resolve.conf
<dogmatic69> that is more permanent?
<dogmatic69> something is putting 192.168.0.254 (router) in resolve.conf
<bigcalm> It is what updates resolv.conf
<bigcalm> Have a look in /etc/resolvconf/
<diplo> dogmatic69: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/precise/man8/resolvconf.8.html
<oimon> noticed that xscreensaver star wars allows rss feeds, and shows a different set of stories on each monitor :D
<dogmatic69> diplo: so 'dns-nameservers foo bar' in /etc/network/interfaces will do the trick?
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: I'd do it in /etc/dhcp3/dhclient.conf
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: or /etc/dhcp/dhclient.conf
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: supersede domain-name-servers 1.2.3.4;
<MartijnVdS> (where 1.2.3.4 == your dns serevr)
<diplo> I always do mine in interface, but don't know if that is the preffered or what MartijnVdS is saying is preffered :)
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: the dhcp/ one has stuff in, dhcp3/ is empty
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: I have edited this file before :D
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: yeah it's different between Ubuntu versions I think
<dogmatic69> I had 'prepend domain-name-servers 192.168.0.2;'
<MartijnVdS> prepend = put that one before any nameserver supplied by the DHCP server
<MartijnVdS> supersede = ignore DHCP server, use this one
<dogmatic69> ah ok
<MartijnVdS> best way is to fix the dhcp server ;)
<dogmatic69> well that is what I wanted to do, but the damn router does not allow changing
<MartijnVdS> Time for a proper one :P
<dogmatic69> there are some things on the net about using a second router connected to the bt router and using that
<dogmatic69> I think so
<dogmatic69> this BT infinity has 2 boxes
<dogmatic69> surely I can take the CAT5 from the first box to something else?
<directhex> infinity comes as a modem and a router
<directhex> the router is their standard adsl2+ modem/router. it's deployed in PPPoE mode
<dogmatic69> so you could not say, connect the modem to the switch direct?
<directhex> dogmatic69, if you initialize the PPP manually, yes - but only one client could use it
<dogmatic69> I see
<dogmatic69> pretty much any router would work in place of the bt router?
<directhex> dogmatic69, yeah, any high-end cable router
<directhex> dogmatic69, something with enough oomph to route 80mbit traffic
<AlanBell> it is standard stuff, you can even plug Ubuntu direct into it if you want to set up pppoe yourself
<dogmatic69> are routers not classed like switches? 1Gb router?
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: ye, there are about 10 / 15 devices though
<bigcalm> Goodness. I'll get to meet Pete Cannon at the lug tomorrow night
<bigcalm> Unexpected
<diplo> Does anyone know if there is a channel people are being put towards for help with their Application ideas/development ?
<christel> i like mister cannon!
<christel> in particular i like his hair!
<christel> :x
<davmor2> christel: you're a wrong, wrong lady ;)
<AlanBell> who is that then?
<bigcalm> Somebody I've yet to meet
<davmor2> AlanBell: The one man rant machine, makes me look like a rank amateur
<davmor2> AlanBell: you'll of seen him at oggcamps I'm sure, he'll be the one buddying up to rathole crew
<christel> davmor2: <3
<christel> bigcalm: you haven't *met* him?! how can you not?
<bigcalm> christel: I possibly have done at previous oggcamps, but I didn't know of him until recently
<christel> aah
<czajkowski> davmor2: you are a rant master
<czajkowski> but I still believe aquarius is rant king
<czajkowski> especially in 140 characters :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: no Pete Cannon makes us both look like rank amateurs
<czajkowski> quality not quantity
<czajkowski> diplo: #ubuntu-app-devel
<diplo> ta, isn't for me.. will pass it on thanks.
<czajkowski> np
<nperry> Urrrmm.. this is irony.. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9356176/BBC-Rogue-Traders-Dan-Penteado-pleads-guilty-to-fraud-allegations.html#
<davmor2> omg! czajkowski is reading people's minds that or my connection disappeared long enough to not see diplo 's question
<davmor2> oh no it's way up there
<diplo> :D
<bigcalm> Squeeee pic of the day http://www.flickr.com/photos/-gb/7395860208/
<SuperMatt> bigcalm: this is my squee from last night: http://www.sprmtt.net/dinogid
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: is it a spider?
<SuperMatt> nope
<bigcalm> Ok then :)
<bigcalm> Aww, that's sweet :)
<SuperMatt> :D
<bigcalm> Sheesh, even saying/typing/reading the word spider makes me feel ill :(
<bigcalm> I need help
<SuperMatt> :(
<SuperMatt> sounds like you do indeed
<kane1309> who can help me ?
<bigcalm> !ask | kane1309
<lubotu3`> kane1309: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<kane1309> who could help me build a good computer what can run now day games etc call of duty on medium or low settings and my budget is about 300 to 400 pounds as i no nothing much about computers
<nperry> So it seems like I've just been accepted for a YouView test unit..
<bigcalm> nperry: what's that when it's at home?
<bigcalm> YouTube box for your telly?
<nperry> http://www.youview.com/
<nperry> An freeview recorder... with all the on-demand services combined in.
<nperry> s/an/a
<diplo> kane1309: How about one of the Zoolander ones on ebuyer ?
<bigcalm> nperry: I see :)
<nperry> I believe Alan Sugar is behind the company.
<diplo> Zoostorm&
<diplo> Zoostorm*
<nperry> Ah yes, he is the non-exec Chairman.
<bigcalm> diplo: did you attend The Derek Zoolander School for Kids Who Can't Read Good and Want to Do Other Stuff Good Too?
<nperry> And it is linux backed, I wonder if I can have a hack on it.
<diplo> :D
<kane1309> is AMD Radeon 6410HD 2Gb any good
<diplo> I think thats the APU gfx chip, built into the processor
<kane1309> what
<nperry> diplo, forgot to ask the other day... Do you got the the wiltshire lug meetings at all?
<nperry> Or use to go.
<diplo> heh, it's a graphics card on a cpu kane1309 I believe, way behind on hardware
<kane1309> ok
<diplo> Nope, I am nearly always in the IRC channel, but have forgotten since Irssi
<diplo> I don't think anyone goes now according to Wilts mailing list
<diplo> BBLug is still active, but haven't visited that yet
<diplo> Quite a way to go and their may be someone there.
<bigcalm> Comes to Wolves LUG, we're quite active :D
<nperry> bigcalm, Are you going to pay for the petrol to come all the way upto Wolverhampton ?
<kane1309> whats are some good cheap good gameing pc websites
<bigcalm> nperry: no, but you should pay us for the privilege of attending ;)
<bigcalm> kane1309: I think you might be asking that question in the wrong channel
<nperry> bigcalm, will an empty can of coke be ok?
<diplo> kane1309: I'm out of the loop a bit, but first I guess you need to decide what you want to play and how to play it, I'd go for one of those cheap Zoostorm pc's and stick a half decent GFX card in it
<nperry> diplo, Never thought of the BBLug. I'll signup for the ML.
<diplo> overclockers used to have a good forum kane1309
<kane1309> thanks diplo
<diplo> Say how much you have to spend on there and see what they recommend
<diplo> They also build PC's to spec
<diplo> Used to* ( not been there for a while ) my kids took my gaming days away for the last few years :)
<nperry> kane1309, Overclockers or Ebuyer.. I suggest looking on the forums - there is normally a lot of people bragging about there rig on there.
<BigRedS> Does mod_rewrite use posix regexes? I'm looking for somewhere to test a regex agaisnt a few strings.
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: Ive never used much more than (.*) type rules
<dogmatic69> there was a new site up the other day for regex testing, sort of like the js one that is popular
<dogmatic69> http://refiddle.com/
<ali1234> and it's completely full of spam
<kane1309> is this any good - Intel Core i3-2120 3.3GHz - 500GB HDD + 8GB RAM - DVD Writer - NVIDIA GeForce GT430 - Windows 7 Home Premium 6
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: that only does JS, Ruby and .NET
<BigRedS> I can test it easily if I know what it is - POSIX I can do with egrep and perl ones with perl. Maybe I'll jsut concoct two and use both :)
<dogmatic69> "based on PCRE regular-expression"
<dogmatic69> mod_rewrite that is, http://httpd.apache.org/docs/current/mod/mod_rewrite.html
<BigRedS> Ah! Yeah, I should've done that shouldn't I...
<BigRedS> cheers!
<kane1309> ????
<BigRedS> 'based on' worries me somewhat but we'll see how it goes
<BigRedS> kane1309: it'll work. Usually people are interested in whether it's good for a particular price, or for particular tasks
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: ye, the 'base on' could mean 'nothing like'
<The_Fred> hello
<dogmatic69> sup The_Fred
<The_Fred> dogmatic69, hello
<The_Fred> Im working on getting a package into a PPA...
<The_Fred> Can anyone tell me if I need to get permission to use the round Ubuntu logo from Canonical?
<AlanBell> !trademark | The_Fred
<dogmatic69> http://www.ubuntu.com/aboutus/trademarkpolicy
<AlanBell> err, one sec
<AlanBell> yeah, that
<dogmatic69> :)
<AlanBell> !logo
<lubotu3`> Official Ubuntu artwork including the Ubuntu logo can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Official
<The_Fred> AlanBell, thats what I thought... I'll ask them directly and see what happens...
<The_Fred> Thanks for the URL tho
<dogmatic69> The_Fred: is it open source?
<AlanBell> what do you want to use it for?
<The_Fred> thats a good question...
<The_Fred> the Uuntu side IS, but the other half is not open
<The_Fred> *Ubuntu
<dogmatic69> "there is no commercial intent"
<dogmatic69> Restricted use: "Any commercial use"
<The_Fred> you see... i have created a system that uses a ubuntu desktop and an android app
<The_Fred> ... and i'd like to use the logo in the android app
<The_Fred> .. which will be non-free because I have to put bread on my table...
<The_Fred> however, the ubuntu side sofware will be open and free
<dogmatic69> The_Fred: sounds like you would require a licence for that. best you email them / call
<The_Fred> ..so yes, its commercial..
<The_Fred> indeedy
<AlanBell> The_Fred: I would send them a very carefully worded email
<The_Fred> sound advice!
<AlanBell> state what you are intending to do and when you are intending to do it, do not ask for a reply
<The_Fred> AlanBell, im curious, why not ask for a reply?
<AlanBell> because you might not get one
<The_Fred> ah, i see
<AlanBell> and if you go ahead anyway then you are in more trouble than if you never did it
<The_Fred> so could no reply within, say 2 weeks, be seen as permission?
<AlanBell> IANAL
<The_Fred> ok
<The_Fred> hmm, where to direct my email?  sales, tech,or press?
<The_Fred> I'll try all and see what happens i guess
<AlanBell> https://forms.canonical.com/trademark/
<AlanBell> that makes it easy
<jacobw> tech is probably most likely to give you a lenient answer that you can quote at the other two
<bigcalm> IANAL?
<AlanBell> I am not a lawyer
<AlanBell> and neither do I play one on TV
<The_Fred> lol
 * jacobw wants to know the resembles now
<The_Fred> well, I used that link, and have contacted the tradmark dept via the online form
<The_Fred> thanks AlanBell
<jacobw> is this the text input from android device thing?
<The_Fred> jacobw, yes!
<jacobw> how does it work now?
<The_Fred> oh yes :D
<jacobw> reread
<The_Fred> reread?
<bigcalm> You need to reread his question :)
<The_Fred> oh- yes, sorry
<The_Fred> doh!
<jacobw> :)
<bigcalm> Or her's. Sorry jacobw, I should presume gender on here
<bigcalm> s/should/shouldn't/
<The_Fred> android does the heavy lifting of voice rec. passes it via TCP to ubuntu, and desktop/server side code types it out via xdotool
<jacobw> online i'm often thought to be female, offline however i'm obivously male
<The_Fred> jacobw, how on earth do people think that 'jacob..' is anything but male?
<jacobw> i don't always use my real name
<The_Fred> of course not... who does?.. ok i know *some* people do...
 * The_Fred goes off for pie and chips
 * jacobw still wants to know how this thing works now :(
<Azelphur> what's a really nice wifi n stick that works ootb with Linux?
<jacobw> edimax
<Azelphur> jacobw:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Edimax-Wireless-Nano-USB-Adapter-/320931957213?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ab90909dd#ht_1983wt_1141 this? :P
<jacobw> yes
<Azelphur> cool
<jacobw> i forgotten the chipset that edimax use, it's been in the mainline kernel since 2.6.2x
<jacobw> ralink
<Azelphur> nice
<Azelphur> yea I looked on their site they have open source drivers too
<jacobw> yeah, that's good to find when you're unsure :)
 * jacobw remembers the bad days of ndiswrapper
<davmor2> Azelphur: basically for ubuntu if it has broadcom, atheros or ralink it is likely to work, the big issue tends to be that none of the usb keys will actually say what chip they support
<Azelphur> haha
<davmor2> Azelphur: broadcom will need the restricted drivers but actually tends to be better than most
<davmor2> Azelphur: oh and intel ofcourse :D
<Azelphur> o.O
<Azelphur> I hate broadcom, it was crappy in my laptop
<Azelphur> always dropping
<davmor2> Azelphur: did you use the broadcom restricted or the free version the free one sucked for me the restricted one was flawless for me but I guess it depended on the chipset too
<Azelphur> restricted I think
<bigcalm> Worked an hour late on work (again). Now I'm done for the day, time to work on a project I want to!
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: what is that?
 * bigcalm taps his nose and then some keys
<bigcalm> :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: your project is tapping your nose with some keys I wouldn't of thought it that hard a project to be honest :P
<bigcalm> Some of my client projects feel like that
<The_Fred> can anyone tell me what size images are used for unity icons?
<The_Fred> is it 32x32?
<gord> The_Fred, 42x42 for the dash iirc, i'm not sure what you mean by unity icons
<The_Fred> gord, thats close enough, if it fits in the dash, it will fit in the launcher..
<The_Fred> gord, thank you
<gord> The_Fred, if you are making icons, then you should be making lots of different sizes
<gord> 16x16, 32x32, 42x42, 64x64, 128x128
<gord> especially for alt-tab, it uses very large icons
<The_Fred> gord, thats good to know - i was just hunting for that info:)
<The_Fred> gord, thanks again
<gord> no problem
<The_Fred> hmm, im following a tutorial about packaging a program, but one of the steps is creating a launcher... how do i do that wit 12.04lts?
 * The_Fred right clicks on desktop.... nope.... there is no 'create launcher'
<BigRedS> surely the tutorial would cover that...
<The_Fred> nope,its for an 9.04, but i've sussed it out now
<ali1234> you write a .desktop file by hand
<The_Fred> ali1234, yup,i just found this
<The_Fred> http://askubuntu.com/questions/72535/creating-desktop-files-to-use-on-the-open-with-other-application-tab
<bigcalm> !unicorn
<Nafallo> offtopic etc, but what's the best way to send money in very short time to someone in the states?
<The_Fred> Nafallo, paypal?
<The_Fred> does anyone know about the rules file for packaging?
<Nafallo> hrm...
<Nafallo> how quickly can paypal pay out money though?
<The_Fred> im not sure
<The_Fred> why not transfer it?
<The_Fred> from bank to bank..
<The_Fred> also, Im wondering if the rules file needs executable permission?
<Nafallo> because it takes longer than until 8am tomorrow...
<ali1234> oh cool some hackers figured out how to downgrade the C7 back to the old firmware
<ali1234> i have to try that tomorrow
<gebbione> when i right click a pdf i see adobe acrobat as an option to open pdf
<gebbione> but i cannot see it when i expand the list of available software to make it the default viewer
<gebbione> how can i fix this
#ubuntu-uk 2012-06-27
<gebbione> hi
<AlanBell> morning all
<christel> good morning lovelybell!
<DJones> Morning
<MooDoo> morning all
<christel> morning lovelies
<christel> i don't think i am quite awake, i just realised i've made myself three (separate) mugs of coffee
<popey> morning
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
 * AlanBell installs lots of quantal updates
<AlanBell> christel: I do that too, I find I am warming up a cold mug of coffee in the microwave, whilst putting the kettle on to make a new one
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: "Alzheimer's Lite"
<AlanBell> a senior moment
<christel> AlanBell: haha
 * mattt is exhausted today
<MartijnVdS> mattt: coffee time
<bigcalm> Good mornings peeps :)
<MartijnVdS> biggie calms 8-)
<mattt> []D
 * mattt gulps
<bigcalm> That's a good idea
 * bigcalm heads to the kitchen and the coffee machine
<bigcalm> mrevell: good morning! Joining us tomorrow?
<mrevell> bigcalm, Ooh, maybe. I'll have to check a couple of things.
<bigcalm> Myself and davmor2 will be there. What more do you need to check?
 * bigcalm pokes gord
<mrevell> The nature of my meetings tomorrow, for one :)
<directhex> quiet day today
<bigcalm> directhex: not much work or your baby is sleeping?
<directhex> wife is on maternity leave, i am not...
<bigcalm> I would hope you'd get paternity leave instead
<directhex> bigcalm, i did. 2 weeks of it
<brobostigon> congratulations directhex :)
<brobostigon> and Mrs directhex
<bigcalm> brobostigon: I think she did more of the hard work
<brobostigon> bigcalm: well, that is yet to come, also, yes.
<christel> aw babies
<bigcalm> christel: that almost sounds like an expletive
<directhex> it is Â¬_Â¬
<bigcalm> :D
<directhex> seems to have shut up now. hooray for milk
<brobostigon> :)
<czajkowski> directhex: :o
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
<directhex> it is?
<bigcalm> directhex: are you breathing?
<directhex> more or less
<bigcalm> Then it's a good morning :)
<dwatkins> I learned recently that the reason babies need feeding so often is that they have tiny stomachs.
<AlanBell> is that why I need feeding so often?
<christel> AlanBell: absolutely!
<AlanBell> thought as much ;)
<bigcalm> Hehe
<dwatkins> makes sense
<bigcalm> Mine wants feeding ale
<davmor2> Morning all
<bigcalm> Hi davmor2
<davmor2> hey bigcalm how's life dude
<davmor2> bigcalm: see what I mean about Pete being a whinger
<bigcalm> Hehe
<bigcalm> I'm disappointed that Amo won't be there
<davmor2> only cause you can't torment him
<bigcalm> davmor2: spot on ;)
<diplo> Updating to CM9 RC1 today then AlanBell ? :)
<AlanBell> diplo: I have downloaded it
<AlanBell> and got heimdall kind of working I think
<diplo> heh, just saw it in your screenshot for Daniel H :)
<diplo> Along with all the pr0n images :P
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/screenshots/Screenshot%20from%202012-06-27%2009:32:51.png this one
<diplo> Don't do cm9 for mine, but debating cm7.2
<diplo> Just not sure i can be bothered setting it up again/installing apps
<diplo> syeah
<BigRedS> I have no idea what version I'm running...
<diplo> Do it a while ago BigRedS ?
<BigRedS> yeah, but I'm pretty sure it was 7.something
<ali1234> i'm updating my phone today as well
<BigRedS> ah yeah, it's what was stable a few weeks ago 'cause I had to reimage and was disappointed at no upgrde
<diplo> Will be 7,1 I'd say. 7.2 is fairly recent
<ali1234> to symbian belle
 * diplo googles
<ali1234> then i'm going to write a long rant explaining everything that's wrong with it, and then downgrade it back to the release firmware
<diplo> :D
<diplo> lots of round corners!
<ali1234> yeah that's pretty much it
<BigRedS> haha. I got a symbian old-skool nokia a few weeks ago
<BigRedS> I was astounded when it offered me an upgrade
<BigRedS> reminded me of those Japanese soldiers that hid out on an island and didn't realise WWII had ended for 30 years
<ali1234> nokia manages upgrades, that's one of the benefits of same company making software and hardware
<ali1234> of course when the upgrades make it worse that's another problem entirely
<ali1234> maybe i'll be surprised and belle fixes all the problems in anna. i doubt it though
<BigRedS> "whoops. I just ran shred on sda for a few seconds by mistake. Reckon it'll still boot"
<diplo> lol BigRedS
<diplo> Guessing a colleague?
<kirrus> yup
<dwatkins> take away their keyboard
<kirrus> "There's no partition table. Err.. there's nothing important on this box, is there?"
<directhex> it won't boot. but it may be recoverable. at least most of it.
<diplo> yeah I'd go with that as well
<directhex> you can reconstruct the partition table by guessing the sector offsets where the partition started and ended (parted simplifies this task), and extX file systems store backup FATs all throughout the file system, precisely to save this situation
<BigRedS> doesn't testdisk do that pretty well?
<ali1234> mke2fs also has an option to rebuild the tables without wiping anything for the same reason
<BigRedS> he's already decided that it needs reinstalling 'cause it's running the 'wrong' distro
<ali1234> though it should be able to use a backup superblock in this case
<diplo> Have I ever mentioned in here my utter dislike for CentOS/Redhat ?
<diplo> :(
<BigRedS> No, I thought you loved it?
 * n1md4 shredded a partition table 
<BigRedS> :)
<directhex> centos is silly.
<diplo> :'(
<directhex> red hat is crap, but used because it has a support phone number, and lots of targetted support.
<directhex> centos is a crap distro with user support, minus the user support
<BigRedS> and several months behind
<diplo> I really am starting to hate it more, wrote some nice python scripts on my ubuntu server, want to test them on real hardware and the machine that's had lot's of OS's on fails on multiple versions of Centos
<BigRedS> it's what you use if you feel Debian is too bleeding edge
<diplo> I am close to talking my company to using another distro
<diplo> Close... not there yet
<dwatkins> I thought RHEL had government backing in the US or something.
<BigRedS> diplo: do you have any RH?
<diplo> Nope not here, all CentOS.. my last place we used RHEL on a few
<ali1234> user support for centos is about as pleasant as sticking your head in a blender
<dwatkins> What kind of hardware do you have, diplo?
<oimon> centos/rhel is pretty decent and stable, just a bit old
<diplo> HP thing, can't remember model at the mo
<diplo> ali1234: I found that
<diplo> I used to idle/help is #centos
<diplo> But they were really shitty / not overly nice helpful people
<dwatkins> ah ok, shouldn't be too non-standard, then, diplo
<diplo> And told me off for helping someone
<oimon> why do none of the conky setups work on my machine :(
<dwatkins> Debian will run on SGI's ia64 machines, although it's not supported.
<diplo> Just downloading newest version of Cent, see if that fixes it
<n1md4> oimon: because you're not doing it right :P
<davmor2> bigcalm: no alex tonight or tomorrow I'm going to guess at release time or he's at an office
<davmor2> gord: you gonna be there tomorrow?
<diplo> Never ran Conky, rarely change my background either as i normally have so many screens open I don't see either of them
<n1md4> oimon: do you get anything?
<oimon> lots of errors. i've prob downloaded them from arch users or something
<gord> davmor2: laptop keys are broken so no, can't work on the laptop
<BigRedS> diplo: yeah, I keep spending ages getting a pretty conky working, and then realise I never see it
<BigRedS> for my own definition of 'pretty'
<oimon> i keep realising that a rogue process is sucking the life out of my pc, e.g. thunderbird, firefox, etc
<davmor2> gord: you broke your laptop
<davmor2> gord: or do you mean Quantal hates your keyboard
 * n1md4 <3 arch, and is a user there of
<gord> davmor2: K/L keys are basically hanging off, waiting on new ones to be delivered
<gord> plastic assembly broke
<bigcalm> davmor2: mrevell is tentative as well. Might just be the 2 of us
<bigcalm> Yay or nay?
<BigRedS> oimon: I'm graphing Firefox and TB memory usage
<BigRedS> it's scary
<oimon> gone back to ff for its better password management
<n1md4> BigRedS: FF sync gave me the really big phone bill!!!
<BigRedS> http://avi.co/stuff/tbirdmemory-day.png
<BigRedS> n1md4: user error
<n1md4> Tor browser all the way :D
<davmor2> bigcalm: up to you dude your the one travelling I easy either way in that their network is possibly more reliable than mine, although it's a bit better now I have put my old router on and switched off the wifi on the superhub, I can't find the modem only mode on this hub :(
<n1md4> As long as you want an experience of the web from the 90s
<bigcalm> davmor2: bring up the superhub web interface. Click on Advanced and then it's under 'Advanced' in the left hand column
<n1md4> BigRedS: Oh wow!  I'm not overly surprised, but still, pretty graphs make it all the more real!
<bigcalm> 1st mention of Advanced should have been 'Advanced Settings'. It's a small red text link in the bottom centre of the web interface
<bigcalm> davmor2: by putting it into modem only mode, the IP of the device will change to 192.168.100.1
<bigcalm> davmor2: I think I'd still like to attend tomorrow. See how I feel at the LUG tonight ;)
<davmor2> bigcalm: see pm
<gord> i don't understand this quassel irc client, why does everyone have their own colour apart from davmor2...
<davmor2> gord: KDE knows I'm special
<czajkowski> gord: !
<gord> hum?
<davmor2> czajkowski: Prod
<czajkowski> ello
<dogmatic69> how can I get rid of seeion keyring on ubuntu server?
<dogmatic69> *session
<dogmatic69> $ ecryptfs-mount-private
<dogmatic69> Enter your login passphrase:
<dogmatic69> Inserted auth tok with sig [dafe3183e6abb63d] into the user session keyring
<dogmatic69> It keeps unmounting the encrypted partition, possibly when the session expires
<gord> popey: all fixed with the corsair water pump now?
<popey> yeah, working a treat, thanks
<popey> bit noisy
<popey> noisier than it was before
<directhex> water cooling?
<gord> really? can't hear mine, i hear the fan, but not the pump
<popey> yeah, fan, not pump
<directhex> if i had the money i'd explore water... but i simply can't afford it. i've been on low-noise air for a decade
<popey> its a sealed-unit thing
<gord> fans are always noisy ;) if its noisier than it was before just make sure its all tightly connected or whatever
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO9APx2yKrg
<directhex> gord, fans aren't *always* noisy
<gord> yeah they are
<gord> some make less noise than others, but they are always noisy
<directhex> gord, they're not always in excess of the background noise level, once you take into account the noise dampening effects of their surroundings (e.g. being in an acoustically silenced case)
<directhex> i can tell when my wife's pc is turned on, from another room. my pc i have to check the light
<gord> if they are less than your background noise level, then thats a different issue, you are in a different environment. here in my home office with no one else home, its quit equiet
<gord> quiet*
<directhex> i remember the good ol' 7 volt trick
<directhex> back when i were a lad
<gord> http://www.extremetech.com/computing/131656-the-fanless-heatsink-silent-dust-immune-and-almost-ready-for-prime-time looks like of interesting for a silent heat remover
<directhex> is that the lockheed martin thing?
<directhex> yes
<gord> no
<directhex> The Sandia National Laboratories, managed and operated by the Sandia Corporation (a wholly owned subsidiary of Lockheed Martin Corporation), are two major United States Department of Energy research and development national laboratories.
<directhex> when did i start on my low noise kick... hm... my undergrad p4 machine, i think
<directhex> zalman cpu cooler with my own 120mm fan (the zalman 92mm fan was really noisy), zalman gpu cooler, and two ultra low noise 80mm fans modded into the power supply, and the power supply's fans 7 volted & used as case fans
 * bigcalm returns to the scene of the crime
<christel> you'll so get caught one of these days
<DJones> They say criminals always go back to the scene to see how the investigation is going
<bigcalm> christel: that's part of the thrill!
<bigcalm> Quiet today
 * davmor2 awaits the sound of "'Ello, 'ello, 'ello, what's goin' on 'ere then", then the sound of silence, then the look of panic on bigcalm face, then the sound of a siren whisking him away 
<bigcalm> :)
 * bigcalm tickles popey_
 * bigcalm tickles popey
 * davmor2 waits for popey_ to get jealous at you tickling popey and visa versa
 * diplo thinks bigcalm and davmor2 are bored
<bigcalm> diplo: you ain't wrong
 * davmor2 wonders how bored diplo is if he is wondering how bored we might be 
<bigcalm> davmor2: fix ya modem?
<diplo> Out of my brain...!
<diplo> I have my mortage/loan etc paperwork lying over my desk
<diplo> :(
<davmor2> bigcalm: nope got busy at lunch so I'll do it when I knock off about 18:30
<gord> aha, never fear davmor2, i moved my irc client over to the slightly better monitor with better colour reproduction, you *do* have your own colour after all! its just very similar to the regular text
<diplo> :P
<diplo> I have the same issue gord, I know where to put some apps
<davmor2> gord: man now I'm miserable now KDE doesn't think I'm special :D
<bigcalm> davmor2: don't worry, you'll always be "special"
<davmor2> bigcalm: you forgot the gap between the be and "Special"  it makes it more sarcastic then :P
<davmor2> for anyone after a microserver http://www.serversplus.com/servers/tower_servers/hp_tower_servers/658553-421
 * bigcalm scratches his head
<bigcalm> After vat, it'll cost you about 150 quidish
<bigcalm> Worth it, I like mine
<bigcalm> Takes a wee while to claim the cash back though
<bigcalm> I wonder what's up with popey's connection today
<davmor2> bigcalm: yeah it just dropped into my inbox so thought I'd share it
<davmor2> bigcalm: turn off away and join notifications and you'll never know :D
<bigcalm> Heh
<DJones> On twitter he described his connection as "Bouncy"
<bigcalm> Fun
<Monotoko> my work connection enjoys being "bouncy" a lot
<christel> is he doing extreme ironing again?
<davmor2> christel: Nah he is doing extreme networking, it's his connection not clothing that is bouncy :D
<christel> hehe
<bigcalm> Ther're all at it now!
<davmor2> bigcalm: I think this line sums it all up really SW upgrade Failed before download -TFTP Max Retry Exceeded superhub my a***
<bigcalm> :(
<bigcalm> Maybe the wrong time of day to do it
<bigcalm> Try when you get home tonight
<davmor2> bigcalm: first thing in the morning is when the network is most stable ie actually remains up
<bigcalm> 1st job tomorrow then :)
<bigcalm> Before going to the Lighthouse that is
<bigcalm> At least just to get the firmware upgraded. You can make use of it after work
<dogmatic69> Anyone else have issues with evolution mail dropping the password?
<dogmatic69> about every second day it forgets the password for one email account. This would not normally be an issue, except its a gmail app email account with 2 stage login
<dogmatic69> for external clients to work there is a randomly generated pwd which I have to then go log into gmail and reset
<davmor2> dogmatic69: that might be why it's dropping
<dogmatic69> no, it was fine for the past 4 months. only started happening around 2 weeks ago
<dogmatic69> it seems like if the connection drops it will ask for the pwd, with the input blank.
<dogmatic69> you can not cancel, it will save the blank pw or a new one you enter.
<dogmatic69> well you can click cancel, but that effectively clears the stored pw
<gord> spotify wouldn't be half as annoying if it wasn't the same three adverts being repeated every five minutes
 * Monotoko ended up paying for spotify
 * MartijnVdS gets free Premium spotify from $isp
<Monotoko> I heard about that deal...
<Monotoko> Virgin?
<MartijnVdS> Monotoko: xs4all :)
<Monotoko> ahhh ^^
<MartijnVdS> Monotoko: (I'm in the Nether lands)
<gord> i would if it were half the price, far too overpriced as is
<Monotoko> ohhh nice
<Monotoko> gord, I don't know... Â£5 per month for unlimited streaming is a really good deal, but maybe that's just me :P
<MartijnVdS> Monotoko: only if you use it enough
<gord> or you could pay Â£0 a month for unlimited last.fm streaming
<MartijnVdS> gord: but then you don't get to choose what they stream to you
<MartijnVdS> not 100% anyway
<gord> so? i buy music to do that
<Monotoko> I use it all day every day... and I'm a student, it's either spotify or pirate for me :P
<MartijnVdS> gord: I only use the Premium bit because (a) lastfm streaming to NL is not free, and (b) it's free! :)
<MartijnVdS> gord: so my use case might be.. "special"
<davmor2> Monotoko: save your Â£5 and buy a dab radio free music all day
<ali1234> yeah this
<ali1234> if you don't care what music it is, just get a radio
<Monotoko> davmor2, I have a DAB, but you still can't choose what to listen to
<Monotoko> that's the problem, I do :P
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: Â£5 DAB radios? Where?
<gord> i might pay for premium if it were Â£5 a month, then i could use the xbmc and mobile apps which would be pretty nice. but not Â£10 a month
<davmor2> Monotoko: I don't know what you mean I love 80's music so tune into absolute 80's I'm too busy to actually notice what is on it's just background noise on the whole
<ali1234> you mean 80s pop music
<davmor2> bigcalm: 50% lag on an irc channel isn't great right
<ali1234> because that's the only thing they play
<davmor2> ali1234: nope, they play pop, rock, dance, disco, light metal
<ali1234> all of those are pop music
<diplo> Depends, pop=Popular, quite a lot of the stuff I've heard on Absolute wasn't in the popular level :)
<gord> does pop just equal stuff people have actually heard of?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> pop = anything that was in the top 40
<ali1234> singles that is
<ali1234> you'll never hear an album track on absolute
<diplo> Pop music (a term that originally derives from an abbreviation of "popular") is a genre of popular music which originated in its modern form in the 1950s
<ali1234> you'll also never hear anything heavier than whitesnake
<diplo> And Whitesnake weren't popular to everyone, well not whilst I was seeing them in concert
<davmor2> ali1234: so guns 'n' rose, metallica and led zeplin are all lighter than whitesnake
<ali1234> when did you hear metallica on absolute 80s?
<ali1234> or led zeppelin?
<ali1234> they're not even from the 80s
<davmor2> ali1234: yes they were
<ali1234> they split up in 1980
<davmor2> with their last album
 * davmor2 kicks his modem it won't fix it but it doesn't half make me feel better
<gord> do you have to use the virgin modem?
<davmor2> gord: to connect yes but it's not an actual issue with the modem
<davmor2> gord: there is a high utilisation issue in our area, cause obvious virgin can't count how many users might connect, and that needs new hardware in the central exchange which is built to order and so on and so on and so on :(
<gord> ah, lame
<gord> there was a period when be were having troubles, i just left my phone in teathering mode for a few days
<gord> i'm on unlimited 3g though
<davmor2> gord: this will take about a month and I have 500MB I don't think it would last especially if there are any bundle app updates
<davmor2> gord: I think the issue is they go, right we have 100,000 users in this area, then they do an offer and get 200,000 but only have the hw in place for the 100,000
<Monotoko> gord, don't speak of 3G D:
 * Monotoko owes a LOT of money to a certain phone company -coughs-
 * AlanBell checks the party list http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1824/detail/
<davmor2> Monotoko: Then pay it off, this whole economic down turn is now all your fault ;) but then you are keeping the debt collectors employed so 50-50 :D
<directhex> if it's vodafone, i'd refuse to pay until they pay some taxes
<AlanBell> Monotoko: did you go roaming?
<Monotoko> davmor2, it's 5 figures... I'm a student >.<
<Monotoko> AlanBell, yeah... my iPhone was stuck downloading something
<Monotoko> and kept trying the entire time I was in the USA
<davmor2> Monotoko: D'oh
<AlanBell> gosh
<davmor2> blame apple for making sucky software :D
<Monotoko> indeed... I've made a deal with the network to freeze it for a couple'a years >.>
<Monotoko> not quite sure what else I can do
<christel> AlanBell: BBQ \o/
<AlanBell> go to citizens advice Monotoko
<AlanBell> christel: yay \o/
<christel> auch, that is pretty shitty (the bill)
<AlanBell> it is negligent of them not to set a credit limit on your account
<AlanBell> oh, also go to ofcom
<AlanBell> Monotoko: when did this happen?
<Monotoko> christel, Â£70,000+ at that..... it happened in Janurary, I've spoken to a lot of people about it and they've been "considering" slashing it down to a couple of hundred
<AlanBell> crikey. Get a lawyer.
<Monotoko> I told 'em straight up there's no way I could ever afford the amount they're asking for
<christel> JESUS
<christel> that is complete and utterly ridiculous
<christel> surely they CANNOT keep you responsible for that
<Monotoko> the thing I want to know... if they can happily slash it to a couple of hundred... why the huge charges in the first place?
<christel> good point
<AlanBell> yeah it is a huge scam, data is not an expensive thing for the operators to roam
<MartijnVdS> 3G/2G data gets routed back to the home country first
<MartijnVdS> so there is some cost involved
<Monotoko> understandably... which is why I'm assuming they're saying a couple of hundred and won't write it off
<MartijnVdS> Monotoko: also, if they had notified you earlier of "strange behaviour" you'd have stopped
<MartijnVdS> This is their responsibility... and bankrupting random people is bad for PR
<Monotoko> MartijnVdS, they said they tried to contact me (I received no calls, except a few messages left on my HOME phone)
<Monotoko> I wish they'd just cut me off to be honest
<Monotoko> easiest way to get me to give them a ring... or I'd have gone and bought a cheap American phone for the rest of the week
<dogmatic69> following on from my evolution issue, lately I can not close it. Clicking the X whites out the window and that is it. Have to killall -9 evolution to get rid of it
<dogmatic69> plain killall evolution does nothing to it
<directhex> blocking on EDS.
<dogmatic69> directhex: me?
<bigcalm> davmor2: does The Moon Underwater have aircon? It's ugly and muggey here
<davmor2> bigcalm: no it will be ugly and muggy there I imagine mind you they do have a lot of doors if they open them
<bigcalm> Fingers crossed
<bigcalm> Mmm, steak
<bigcalm> Or will I try something else?
<davmor2> bigcalm: no you'll have steak
<bigcalm> Haha
<davmor2> bigcalm: I can tell you what you'll do, you'll look at the menu, you'll make your mind up to have something different you'll get to the till and order the steak
<bigcalm> Are you trying to use reverse psychology on me?
<bigcalm> And Amo won't be there to tell me to have a pudding
<bigcalm> Maybe I'll just stay in my climate controlled car
<Nafallo> please do
<bigcalm> o.O
<christel> have a pudding.
<bigcalm> christel: oh, bugger it. Ok
<davmor2> bigcalm: Language!
<bigcalm> Millennium hand and shrimp
<popey> golly, nexus 7
<bigcalm> Couldn't have a Nexus 6
<davmor2> popey: more importantly pub
<christel> i like the pub. noone ever goes to the pub with me :(
<bigcalm> christel: I'll got to a pub on wheels with you
<davmor2> christel: it's cause you're an angry drunk and beat everyone ;)
<christel> davmor2: oh :(
<davmor2> christel: Just Jokin' they all love you really but then there is a rumour of a BBQ
 * AlanBell has been to a pub with christel 
<christel> \o/
<kvarley> is offtopic allowed here?
<_The_Fred> hellloooo
<kvarley> hi
<_The_Fred> hello kvarley
<_The_Fred> i guess it'll be quiet here while its tea time eh?
<kvarley> How are 3D dimensions listed? width*height*depth?
<kvarley>  _The_Fred: Yarp, especially on the week day
<_The_Fred> yes, or x,y,and z
<_The_Fred> are you using blender?
<kvarley> Ok thanks. Nope lol trying to work out if this box http://shop.royalmail.com/mailing-boxes/posting-box-medium-380x255x160mm/invt/prod56760076/ will hold my goods or not
<_The_Fred> ah - i see
<_The_Fred> just a thought though: make sure you measure the inside dimensions...
<ali1234> whuuuuuuuuuuuuut
<_The_Fred> i think the royal mail list boxes by their external sizes
<_The_Fred> it might not be much of a difference, but it depends how tight for you are
<ali1234> you do understand... rotations... right?
<kvarley> I'm gonna have to get a medium box since one of the books is 30cm tall
<_The_Fred> who? me?
<_The_Fred> what books are you selling?
<_The_Fred> sorry, thats an assumption, i mean shipping...
<kvarley> Trading in old revision guides and games
<_The_Fred> aha
<ali1234> you can transpose two arbitrary orthogonal vectors by rotating 90 degrees through their cross product
<_The_Fred> ali1234, top points :)
<kvarley> _The_Fred: Trying to scrape some more funds together to get an SDD for the PC I'm building this weekend lol
<_The_Fred> kvarley, well, in such a fix, there are quicker ways to make some Â£... window cleaning, car washing, gardening... just a suggestions
<kvarley> _The_Fred: Hehe, I was at work yesterday and have worked out I'll need about a tenner more so this way solves it =]
<_The_Fred> cool
<kvarley> _The_Fred: I have a HDD I can use while I wait so its not too bad
<_The_Fred> i could use a new computer
<_The_Fred> I get fed up with all this 10 yr old kit i use
<kvarley> What's the easiest window tiling application that will work in LUbuntu?
<kvarley>  _The_Fred: Specs? I'm building a budget fanless one
<_The_Fred> not a clue im afraid
<_The_Fred> kvarley, fanless - thats a nice way to go... fans annoy me when im transcoding videos through the night
<_The_Fred> and some of those fanless heatsinks are'nt too costly now, i saw one for less that Â£20 in the local pc shop
<_The_Fred> *than
 * _The_Fred curses having sausage fingers
<kvarley> _The_Fred: I'm getting a Zacate motherboard so it's APU + Motherboard + heatsink all in one for Â£95
<_The_Fred> cool, thats a decent price
<_The_Fred> you have a case?
<kvarley>  _The_Fred: Yeah got one from an old build which should do
<_The_Fred> i dont know what to do now... I just uploaded an app for review, so all i can do is wait
<kvarley> An app for what platform?
<_The_Fred> oooo,look at that:my pie's cooked :)
<_The_Fred> ubuntu
<kvarley> what does it do?
<_The_Fred> speech input for ubuntu
<_The_Fred> it does need an android phone to make it function, but it works very well
<MartijnVdS> That was one cool bit of keynote @ Google
<_The_Fred> MartijnVdS, whats the url?
<MartijnVdS> _The_Fred: https://developers.google.com/events/io/
<_The_Fred> MartijnVdS, thank you
<christel> popey: did you purchase one
<popey> no
<popey> i have sufficient tablets
<christel> hehe
<jacobw> awesomewm is cool tiling window manger
<jacobw> s/manger/manager
<jacobw> to say it was awesome would be redundant
<Laney> http://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/
<Laney> cool site
<jacobw> some of those were featured on bbc news a few days ago
<jacobw> very interesting to see the developments
<AlanBell> err crap, I just invited 328 people round to my house
 * AlanBell wonders if this G+ event invite thing is an entirely good idea
<nperry> AlanBell, I know I just received the email.
<nperry> You may need to timetable the trampoline.
<jacobw> time to turn your house in to a tardis
<AlanBell> it sent an email O.o
<jacobw> it's the only rational solution
<nperry> AlanBell, yeah...
<nperry> A google notification just isn't enough
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: You must have a huge house, "and 380 more are invited" :)
<AlanBell> yeah, I wonder if George Takei will come round
<AlanBell> and Rory Cellan Jones
<dogmatic69> lol
<AlanBell> gosh, imagine what would happen if George Takei reshared it :/
<dogmatic69> Best call the caterers...
<dogmatic69> That Charlie Kravetz guy seems wonderful
<dogmatic69> hope he can make it
<AlanBell> he is a nice chap actually
<AlanBell> in a victor meldrew kind of way
<dogmatic69> :)
<czajkowski> aloha
<czajkowski> AlanBell: you upsetting people :p
<AlanBell> yeah, with my offensive BBQ invitations
<czajkowski> how rude inviting people for food!
<czajkowski> how evil of you
<AlanBell> Alan Cox is not coming
<czajkowski> :/
<_The_Fred> whooohooo: Your application Ubuntu Speech Input system was submitted to the Application Review Board.
<_The_Fred> : D
<AlanBell> nice one _The_Fred
<_The_Fred> AlanBell, thanks
 * _The_Fred is working furiously on the android app launch
<jacobw> _The_Fred: how does it work?
<_The_Fred> jacobw, the android app does the voice recognition, and passes the recognised speech as text via TCP to Ubuntu desktop code which types it for you
<_The_Fred> you just have to remember to turn off ENTER key appending when using in IRC in case is mishears you
<_The_Fred> you just have to remember to turn off ENTER key appending when using in IRC in case is mishears you
 * _The_Fred is having Wifi issues thanks to ISP
<jacobw> how do you do a return?
<_The_Fred> there is a toggle button on the app - nice and easy
<_The_Fred> im working on the publish page details for it right now, so it should be available tomorrow
<jacobw> what happens in NAT scenarios?
 * AlanBell has ticket to the Olympics Opening Ceremony
<AlanBell> (technical rehersal thereof)
<_The_Fred> jacobw, now thats a great question
<jacobw> how is the session established?
<_The_Fred> start app on the phone, start program on ubuntu, enter IP address into app, press set, and its ready to go
<AlanBell> so they need to be on the same network
<_The_Fred> yes
<jacobw> that's a reasonable limitation
<AlanBell> or ridiculous port forwarding setups which are not really sensible for the application in question
<_The_Fred> the update may include bluetooth connection option
<jacobw> AlanBell: STUN
<AlanBell> yeah, could do, still pointless
<AlanBell> the application only works at all if the phone and computer are within visual range
<jacobw> that's an unrelated limitation
<_The_Fred> not an actual requirement, i was able to dictate an email while cooking
<AlanBell> nice
<jacobw> i'm suprised how quickly you've managed to implement it
<AlanBell> hmm can you get speech the other way too I wonder?
<_The_Fred> ha - actualy yes, but i did that only as a test
<AlanBell> use orca and speech dispatcher to send speech to the phone, render that text to audio on the phone and you can control your desktop from the phone and hear what it is doing
<_The_Fred> i had speech notifications from my desktop about skype IM, emails, etc
<_The_Fred> AlanBell, thats great food for thought
<_The_Fred> the core problem i face is scope-creep, and for the moment im staying with voice input (dictation), as voice commanding is a much larger issue
<jacobw> how does the ubuntu app select text fields?
<AlanBell> that is a very good point, do one thing well
<_The_Fred> it doesnt, the user does
<_The_Fred> you have to select the where you want the text to be inserted
<christel> /13/4
<christel> oops
<AlanBell> three and a bit
<_The_Fred> which is a drawback..
<jacobw> put the text on the clipboard
<_The_Fred> 3 and bit of what?
<AlanBell> 13/4 is three and a bit
<jacobw> 3.25
<_The_Fred> jacobw, thats another item chalked for a future update :)
<_The_Fred> AlanBell, christel , is there some score keeping going on?
<jacobw> it would eliminate the need to use the ubuntu device to choose a field for your dictation, add another button to app to end the current dictation and put the text on the clipboard
<AlanBell> _The_Fred: it was christel trying to switch to window 13 in irssi or something, I was teasing
<_The_Fred> ah....i see :)
<christel> indeed! :P
<jacobw> in addition to the return button, when used with a clipboard manager like diodon, it could be very useful
<jacobw> especially with diodon in particular, because of it unity lense
<_The_Fred> jacobw, the composition of text was another thorny issue, my testers had such contrasting wants that i decided, for now, just to simply type in what is recognised
<_The_Fred> but yes, i think on-app composition/editing will be a hit feature
<jacobw> spain ftw
<jacobw> morgen
<_The_Fred> I just had one excellent suggestion: have the option to forward sensor and other info from the phone in a JSON format...
<Azelphur> Hmm, my cursor keeps disappearing in editboxes, really annoying
<Azelphur> anyone else seeing this?
#ubuntu-uk 2012-06-28
<christel> morning lovelies
 * Monotoko stumbles in, and heads straight for the coffee
<Monotoko> looks like a lot of spam has hit our mailing list
<DJones> Morning all
<DJones> Monotoko: Certainly has
<diplo> Morning all
<DJones> popey: Are you able to poke the mailing list to block and email address sending spam to the list, being sent by John P Taylor with no subject, 3 overnight
<DJones> Or AlanBell Daviey ^^
<Monotoko> was all excited as well, thought there was loads of new mail to read! XD
<DJones> I didn't look at the links, just looked very spammy, wonder if its goat po rn or "enhancement tablets"
<Monotoko> DJones, make billions of dollars from home or w/e it is
<Monotoko> (using crap that we've just got randomly from free sources on the web!)
<popey> DJones, already did it
<AlanBell> morning all
<Monotoko> morning ^_^
<DJones> popey: Thanks
<popey> np
<popey> now all we need is for people to stop replying to them
<diplo> :)
 * Monotoko is not guilty of that, at all...
<diplo> AlanBell: Invites seem fun :)
<DJones> Heh, yeah that would be sort of obvious really
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Accomplishments Team Meeting - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/06/28/ubuntu-accomplishments-team-meeting/
<AlanBell> diplo: yeah, now people are inviting me to BBQs at their house in North California
<DJones> AlanBell: If they provide transport & accomodation, take them up on the offer
<diplo> lol :)
<AlanBell> DJones: yeah, that is what most people said about my one
<diplo> I've gone as maybe, would like to meet up with you guys... and if popey still wants it I can bring the Virgin kit ?
<DJones> A bit too far for me, so I've declined
<DJones> What will you do if the other 379 invited people say yes and turn up?
<popey> diplo, the what?
<AlanBell> have a big party I guess
<DJones> Hide the chickens
<diplo> Virgin HD + SD units we talked about some months ago that I totally forgot about till seeing them the other day
<AlanBell> it would be a great party with Linus Torvalds, Will Wheaton and George Takei there
<Monotoko> you invited Linus Torvalds?
<DJones> Have you invited RMS
<AlanBell> Monotoko: yeah
<DJones> Maybe he could try the extreme ironing challenge
<Monotoko> nice! It's a bit far for me sadly :(
<christel> BIG PARTY \o/
<diplo> Just watching the video of the Google Glass sky dive thing, got to say it's great
<AlanBell> Sergey Brin isn't a great presenter, but he had pretty cool stuff to work with
<diplo> No, got to tsay he sucks a bit :D
<popey> Sergey had no script
<popey> so in front of 6K people I would forgive him that
<AlanBell> yeah, it was fine
<DJones> Yummy http://wheresmysammich.com/picture/15347/kit-kat-chunky/ If a bit sickly trying to eat all of it
<Monotoko> too early for chocolate :P
<DJones> Its evening in some parts of the world
<Monotoko> true... but this is #ubuntu-uk ;)
<DJones> But we don't restrict the channel to uk people
<DJones> We have been known to let foreigners in
<davmor2> morning all
<Monotoko> DJones, you twisted my words :(
<Monotoko> morning davmor2 :)
<DJones> Monotoko: Just a bit
<bigcalm_laptop> Good morning peeps :)
<mattt> morning morning
<bigcalm_laptop> AlanBell: can your garden cope with 380+ people?
<AlanBell> bigcalm_laptop: it would be a little bit friendly
<bigcalm_laptop> Just a touch
<diplo> heh
<czajkowski> aloha
<popey> moo
<diplo> Python gurus, time.sleep the best option to use in a python script I've used, basically want to wait 2 secs before trying to unmount a usb stick as we keep getting some errors about not being able to unmount
<bigcalm_laptop> Hey czajkowski, popey & diplo :)
<ali1234> diplo: time.sleep, yes
<ali1234> you are using udisks?
<diplo> yeah
<diplo> File "/usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/dbus/connection.py", line 630, in call_blocking message, timeout)
<diplo> dbus.exceptions.DBusException: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NoReply: Did not receive a reply. Possible causes include: the remote application did not send a reply, the message bus security policy blocked the reply, the reply timeout expired, or the network connection was broken.
<diplo> Keep getting this on one site, others work fine as does my own tests
<ali1234> you have to ensure the disk is mounted before you can unmount it
<diplo> Wondering whether it needs a little delay before unmounting
<diplo> OK, I can test for that, but it's just finished copying files accross then checks what was used / space used etc then unmounts
<ali1234> in my script it shows how to do it
<diplo> The space part works fine, but unmount directly after fails
<diplo> yeah just looking now thanks
<ali1234> though i'm not sure why unmount would fail if it really is mounted, unless a file is in use or something
<diplo> yeah
<diplo> brb
<bigcalm_laptop> How do I tell git to use a particular ssh key when cloning a repo?
<ali1234> it should try all of them
<BigRedS> 'all of them'?
<BigRedS> where does it look?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> it looks in ~/.ssh?
<BigRedS> just in ~/.ssh?
<BigRedS> ah
<ali1234> make sure you are using the right username
<BigRedS> bigcalm_laptop: check GIT_SSH in man git?
<BigRedS> looks like a convoluted way to do it
<BigRedS> write a script that uses the right key, set GIT_SSH=/path/to/that/script
<bigcalm_laptop> That is convoluted
<BigRedS> or just link the key to something in ~/.ssh...
<bigcalm_laptop> I have 2 ssh keys in .ssh
<BigRedS> are either the one you want it to use?
<bigcalm_laptop> Yes, the 2nd one
<BigRedS> oh!
<bigcalm_laptop> And I've just added the public key to gitlab
<bigcalm_laptop> But when I try to clone, it's asking for the ssh password for the git user. Not what I want
<BigRedS> I think that daft script is probably the best way...
<bigcalm_laptop> But that shouldn't be the case. Things should "just work"
<bigcalm_laptop> I changed the order of my ssh keys and it worked
<bigcalm_laptop> I don't like that
<Monotoko> ohhh hell... we are about to turn into China :(
<Monotoko> there are proposals to have an opt-out of content filtering online
<bigcalm_laptop> !ping
<lubotu3> another contentless ping... sigh...
<diplo> ali1234: Sorry about that, yeah I'm wondering whether the usb device is still having some last few millisecond read/writes, so why I was going to try the time.sleep
<diplo> Seems I have taken my usb sticks/drives home though :(
<popey> Nafallo, do datahop have somewhere on IRC where I can poke people?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<bigcalm_laptop> popey: did you consider my question?
<bigcalm_laptop> davmor2: you do realise that there are now other people in here? The noises you're making might get some odd looks
<davmor2> bigcalm_laptop: and yet I still don't care :P
<popey> bigcalm_laptop, didnt see it
<popey> one mo
<bigcalm_laptop> Ok
<AlanBell> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/06/28/mark_shuttleworth_live_chat/ have a chat with sabdfl
<davmor2> czajkowski: PROD!!!!
<czajkowski> davmor2: morning
<Monotoko> I feel proud... just helped a work colleuge who's been surrounded by Windows and ASP/Coldfusion debug a Linux server
<Monotoko> he's been doing this a lot longer than I have :P
<BigRedS> Haha, yeah
<BigRedS> I remember when one of the senior guys here rang me up with a bind question
<directhex> Monotoko, eek, coldfusion
<BigRedS> I felt really proud until I asked him what on earth made him think I'd know the answer...
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: "Well you know unix"
<Monotoko> my initial thoughts were right... he was like "something is taking up 95% of my disk drive"... I was tempted to reply with "rm -rf /var/log"
<Monotoko> narrowed it down to the access.log for apache
<diplo>  Did you use find ?
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: we're all Linux here
<dwatkins> I'm not - well, I have a linux server but I'm not using it right now.
<Monotoko> nah, I used: du -a /var | sort -n -r | head -n 10
<BigRedS> I always use du for that sort of thing
<Monotoko> gave me the evil file instantly
<dwatkins> du and sort for the win etc.
<Monotoko> ... I'm on Win 7 right now, I feel like a minority in here :P
<dwatkins> well it is an Ubuntu channel ;) I'm using Win7 on my work laptop.
<diplo> I'm normally on Win7 in here as well :)
<dwatkins> I'm actually accessing this channel via a BSD server ;)
<diplo> Monotoko: Can also use du -sh --max-depth=1
<diplo> hard core :)
<Monotoko> Win7 is on my college-laptop... I was told that I can't take the OS off :(
<diplo> I use my VPS with irssi now
<dwatkins> du -s *
<dwatkins> that's handy for just getting summaries, beware of hidden directories, of course.
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: so why did he come to you for bind help?
<BigRedS> sometimes the problem is a large number of small files
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: I think I'd made a disparaging comment about Virtualmin's Bind config thingy
<Monotoko> virtualmin drives me up the wall >.>
<BigRedS> I think the real reason was that everyone else was busy
<Monotoko> the install script breaks :(
<diplo> Can't say I've ever used any of the min packages
<ali1234> lol, the new nokia maps has a "feature" whereby when you are trying to use the maps it puts all your geotagged images on the map
<BigRedS> hahahaha
<diplo> How are you finding the *upgrade* so far ali1234 ?
<Monotoko> Nokia? It's been a while since I've heard of them... :)
<ali1234> i guess that could actually be useful
<BigRedS> I bet that sounded awesome in the meeting
<ali1234> diplo: it's not as bad as i expected actually
 * Monotoko still has his 3GS
<ali1234> they have removed pretty much every feature of the phone that i ever used and replaced them with angry birds and microsoft communicator
<MartijnVdS> Hmm Galaxy Nexus
<MartijnVdS> Can't wait for jelly bean :)
<ali1234> but apart from that it's pretty much as bad as the previous version
<diplo> :)
<Monotoko> I had a lot of fun disabling useless launch daemons to get as much speed as I could from my 3GS last night >.> iOS 5 really weighs it down
<ali1234> this photos on map thing could have really hilarious unintended consequences
<ali1234> like you give your mate a lift home. put in his post code. "hey why are there loads of pictures of my wife"
<ali1234> etc
<Monotoko> interesting... we refuse to extradite a convicted sex criminal to the US... but will happily send hackers and copyright breakers
<directhex> Monotoko, priorities
<MartijnVdS> Monotoko: more bribes are paid for those
<directhex> Monotoko, no businesses benefit from sex criminals. well, prisons do, but gang members are cheaper
<Monotoko> even worse... child sex offender, blocked because of the EU human rights... I mean WTF?
<ali1234> nobody should be extradited to the US for any reason
<Monotoko> this world is completely backwards
<ali1234> i don't care what they've done
<oimon> what's new in jelly bean?
<ali1234> we should send their diplomats back though
<Monotoko> do I detect any anti-US sentiment there ali? ;) :P
<ali1234> only towards their government
<directhex> extradition is reasonable for crimes committed abroad, to countries without torture or inhuman treatment
<n1md4> ali1234: Re: Jelly Bean: More of Google spying on you !!! I'm hoping on Tizen.
<directhex> the US fails the criteria, tbh
<ali1234> directhex: which rules out extradition to the US
<directhex> n1md4, tizen won't go anywhere.
<directhex> n1md4, it's a boondoggle
<oimon> but esriously, any decent features in JB?
<diplo> guess not a lot oimon :)
<diplo> not looked myself as I haven't got a phone that can run it
<diplo> http://www.androidauthority.com/android-jelly-bean-4-1-new-feature-highlights-98035/
<bigcalm_laptop> davmor2_ wants to spoon me :(
<diplo> TMI
<davmor2_> bigcalm_laptop: No I want to throw a spoon at you to keep you awake there is a difference
<BigRedS> oimon: I'd heard it was mostly performance improvements
<oimon> BigRedS, did you hear about the linaro boys who inspected the code and got some massive improvements. hope it gets into CM
<BigRedS> oimon: oh, no. Sounds good!
<oimon> https://plus.google.com/u/0/112352920206354603958/posts/hw6G6FedE3d
<oimon> "What do you get when the open source community looks at Android 4? Up to twice the speed!"
<oimon> "
<oimon> The speed of these demos is an improvement of 100% (60 fps versus 30fps) versus Googles stock Android 4.04"
<diplo> Quite an improvement :)
<diplo> Just watched the vid
<diplo> Wonder what optimisations they could make if they didn't have closed GPU drivers etc
<diplo> That was just for the panda board but still
<oimon> does the youtube captions get added by humans or machine?
<oimon> the linaro video, done by a machine surely
<oimon> "quotes runs on an ethnic" - random quote
<MartijnVdS> oimon: ETH NIC ?
<gord> oimon: they can be contributed, but 99.9999% of them are automatically generated and are very very poor
<oimon> it's like reading william s burroughs
<oimon> "asically, parts of the Linaro code have been submitted to the CM9 gerrit and are currently awaiting approval. Once commited, these tweaks will be added to the main CM9 code, giving all supported devices a drastic increase in performance."
<gord> its so humid :(
<oimon> and warm and nice and sunny ;D
<oimon> although very little sleep was had
<gord> sunny is nice, humid is not
<gord> its actually not sunny here either, overcast
<oimon> on hols next week so need moar sun
<oimon> check out the tablet in this video from 1994 http://www.androidauthority.com/apple-samsung-patent-war-69575/
<BigRedS> anyone know vsftpd well enough to know if userlist_enable really does what it looks like it should do?
<oimon> "When a developer publishes an app update, Google Play now only delivers the changes bits of the application rather then the entire APK.  This makes app updates much lighter and easier on your network data. On average, a smart app update is about 1/3 the size of the full APK update." - looks like the most useful update to 4.1 for me
<BigRedS> Ah, so nothing too major, then?
<BigRedS> or are you just on a really restricted data tarrif?
<oimon> no, but nothing else really affects me
<BigRedS> Ah, yeah, the former then :)
<oimon> yep, although performance is welcome as i'm running a htc desire, now 2yrs old
<gord> i'm running a two year old nexus one, can't say i really need more performance
<gord> all i really use my phone for is email, phone and light web stuff, mostly checking news feeds
<BigRedS> yeah, I've largely got myself over the need to do loads of stuff on it
<BigRedS> I think I don't even have an ssh client on it any more
<gord> when all you do is what i do with a phone, i find it hard to justify getting a new one. yay its pretty much exactly the same..
<oimon> i'm very close to getting the giffgaff Â£5 per month deal
<BigRedS> Ah, I break mine about twice as frequently as my contracts expire :(
<oimon> due to my low minutes
<diplo> oimon: You dont get the data with that package though do you
<diplo> Been a while since I looked at it mind
<oimon> diplo, pure data nothing else
<diplo> Don't do texts ?
<oimon> no, google message instead
<oimon> and irc :D
<diplo> I would do that but I don't think my mum/dad could cope
<diplo> They have just understood texting
<diplo> Rushing them may be an issue
<diplo> :p
<gord> really wish the android text messenger could send to email addresses, then i could sneakily replace my phone number with an email in friends and families contacts
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> I'm still bemused that it's non-trivial to send text messages from my PC
<BigRedS> About eight years ago I decided that it should be really easy and we'd be able to do it soon
<bigcalm_laptop> BigRedS: do you have an android phone?
<BigRedS> yeah
<brobostigon> there is a prog to do such, i htink it is called mightytext or similer.
<bigcalm_laptop> BigRedS: install AirDroid :)
<BigRedS> oh wow
<BigRedS> _everything_ has a web UI these days
<bigcalm_laptop> :D
<bigcalm_laptop> I love AirDroid!
<bigcalm_laptop> I've even got my Dad to install it :D
<oimon> i like that GG actually tell me how many minutes i've used
<oimon> busy month this month :S 26 mins
<bubu> anyone know how I can make a txt file which has numbers going sequentially up? so like a text file that starts at a0001 and goes through to a2000 ...?: )
<BigRedS> is that all you're after, just numbers
<oimon> for i in $(seq 1 200); do echo a$i ; done
<bubu> yeah, needs to be preceeded but a letter though 'a' for example
<oimon> preceded by leading zeros too?
<DJones> bubu: Not the most elegant, but a spreadsheet, a0001 cell a1, a0002 cell a2, and then just extend the range and save as a text file
<BigRedS> for i in {0001..2000}; do echo a$i; done > file
<bubu> DJones, I know but even though ends up the same, id prefer a more elegant way of doing it! ;)
<bubu> thx BigRedS and oimon :)))
<oimon> BigRedS, has your answer
<oimon> how do you guys manage your passwords?
<oimon> i seem to have 2 keepassX files and then there's chromium and firefox passwords i haven't put in keepass
<oimon> its a mess
<gord> heey spotify finally got a new adver... oh god its that simples meercat
<bubu> BigRedS, your a star :)
<BigRedS> bubu: haha, no worries. I was just amazed that I got the syntax right first time!
<bubu> hah, you did!
<oimon> installing groovy (2.0.0~beta2+isreally1.8.6-0ubuntu1)
<oimon> ugh ..ugly version name
<BigRedS> hahaha
<BigRedS> grub2 needs that sort of version string
<bubu> funny story - just got a webcam (ipcam) so my gf can watch her bunnies when we are away. the manufacturer has its own in built DNS in there which you can turn off. a0001.cipcam.com for example
<bubu> written a script to do a reverse lookup on all those dns records, pass that to nmap to scan
<bubu> there thousands open with no auth at all!
<BigRedS> hahaa
<bubu> im sure this has been covered before but still ridiculous!
<oimon> remember that there's images you cannot unsee
<bubu> heh, im counting on it oimon ;o)
<diplo> oimon: KeepassX is all I use now
<oimon> and most will be behind nat
<oimon> diplo, how do you import the password?
<diplo> I'm just very good now as soon as I sign up to a site I add it straight away
<bubu> most have port forwarding\
<bubu> so can see externally
<bubu> from the ones ive tested
<oimon> post any good ones here :P
<diplo> Import the password from a current site ?
<bubu> hehe
<bubu> will do!
<oimon> clean ones of course
<oimon> :D
<AlanBell> bubu: what camera?
<diplo> I've manually input all of mine id rhats what you mean
<oimon> trying this: http://lifehacker.com/248702/how-to-import-saved-firefox-passwords-into-keepass
<diplo> Oh right, I just dod it manually :)
<diplo> Didn;t take that long tbh
<bubu> muahahaha
<diplo> Also updated a lot of the sites with better passwords as I went through oimon
<bubu> AlanBell, eBay jobbie
<bubu> cipcam.com is the domain
<bubu> dumping all the brute forced reverse lookups to a sql lite 3 db now
<oimon> thinks bubu will be disappointed
<diplo> heh me 2
<bubu> probably oimon
<diplo> Can do the same with Axis Cameras
<bubu> woth a punt though
<bubu> yeah
<bubu> ive seen the same being 'exploited' before
<diplo> Did it a few years ago when I set up a network of them for work
<diplo> As oimon said, their are some that can't be unseen
<diplo> :)
<AlanBell> I was thinking of getting a new webcam, the colour on my logitec is unstable
<oimon> i have some webcams but never used them
<diplo> heh I have them in PC's at home/work and laptop
<oimon> i should use them with my rasbpi killer
<diplo> And I've used them 3/4 times in the same amount of years
<bubu> rasbpi killer?
<oimon> linksys slug
<oimon> slugs eat my raspberries
<oimon> haven't found a secure way to get my passwords out of chromium yet :-\
<gord> secure?
<gord> i was under the impression than putting passwords into a webbrowser was inherently insecure
<oimon> i mean a way to export them from chromium without running a random windows app
<ali1234> make a website that spoofs the websites that you want the passwords for, and then log what passwords chrome sends to it
<popey> AlanBell, I have a Logitech pro 9000 which seems pretty good
<ali1234> webcam? get a logitech C910
<BigRedS> Any PHPites able to shed light on this? http://paste.debian.net/176825/
<gord> popey: seriously? thats the exact webcam i have. we might as well just share amazon/ebuyer accounts, we buy all the same stuff anyway
<popey> haha
<popey> the only flaw with it is it has started to uh.. droop
<gord> have you tried out the webcam software it has for windows? it will put a pigs nose on your face, it is excellent.
<popey> not for some years
<diplo> Pro 9000 is what we use for meetings between us and Nottingham
<diplo> Only thing that used to let us down was the bandwith
<diplo> :)
<diplo> Anyone let me know command in irssi to display list of users in a channel
<diplo> My battery just died and going through webpages is proving a bit slower without the mouse :D
<brobostigon>  /names
<diplo> ta
<diplo> :)
<brobostigon> :)
<diplo> I was trying to guess, but names didn't come to me :)
<brobostigon> :)
<diplo> and it seems google foo sucks
<brobostigon> diplo: i might have suggested looking on the irssi site.
<diplo> I did, but was taking forever to go through links etc
<brobostigon> ok.
<diplo> Well I've got a red light back on mouse now, see if that lasts till 5 :)
<AlanBell> popey: mine is Logitech, Inc. QuickCam Pro 5000
<AlanBell> so does the logitec C910 work well in google hangouts and skype?
<gord> my logitech 9000  works fine in hangouts and skype
<popey> i have had no issue with my 9000
<AlanBell> C910 is a bit of a different beast though
<czajkowski> http://www.brighttalk.com/webcast/6793/50483  has just started if you fancy listening in to Mark baker
<ali1234> AlanBell: yes it works fine
<MooDoo> :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: me owld mucka
<bigcalm_laptop> Yay home time!
<christel> czajkowski: i have put a picture of david's first rugby-related injury on facebook!
<christel> (since i know you love eyeing up small people)
<Songtao> hi guys,
<Songtao> what is the easyest way to move existing ubuntu system to a brand new drive ?
<MartijnVdS> Songtao: using an Ubuntu CD or USB stick
<nperry> dd :D
<Songtao> how to using ubuntu CD ?
<Songtao> hard drive diffrent size
<Songtao> dd /  ?
<Songtao> will work ? dd /
<MartijnVdS> Songtao: you just install it?
<MartijnVdS> oh move an existing system
<MartijnVdS> clonezilla.
<Songtao> existing harddrive will fail soon, so need replace it with a brand new one
<Songtao> clonezilla will do ? thanks, I will google it now
<czajkowski> christel: awww cute
<MartijnVdS> Songtao: popey was happy with it, I think
<popey> yeah, clonezilla is good for taking a snapshot
<MartijnVdS> popey: moving it to a new HD/PC too, right?
<Songtao> can you use that snapshot on different size drive ?
<MartijnVdS> Songtao: You can always resize the partition/file system later if it can't resize the partition
<MartijnVdS> but I think it should work
<Songtao> thanks a lot, I will try
<popey> yeah
<popey> you cant restore onto a smaller disk though
<AlanBell> can you shrink the partition first, then snapshot then restore then expand again?
<popey> i wouldn't on a failing disk
<Songtao> no worries, upgrading, new drive always bigger than old one.
<Songtao> so I can not just tar the existing system, and then untar it on the new drive root.
<dwatkins> clonezilla might be useful for copying the root drive, Songtao
<dwatkins> it will create an image file of the hard drive.
<Songtao> thanks I will try that
<dwatkins> you'll need to boot the clonezilla ISO
<popey> yeah, stick the iso on a usb stick..
<dwatkins> it might even manage resizing, although that's easy enough with resize2fs etc.
<dogmatic69> Does anyone know what the little LED's on a cat5 connection mean?
<dogmatic69> my internet keeps dropping and when it does it seems like the yellow one is flashing and green is solid
<BigRedS> I want a single-page of wiki that requires a captcha for people to edit the page. Any recomendations?
<popey> i saw a nice one on the datahop contact us page
<popey> "click on the circle"
<BigRedS> Ah yeah
<BigRedS> that's quite good
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: http://areyouahuman.com/
<BigRedS> ah, no, I'm after the wiki bit that needs a captcha rather than just a captcha
<dogmatic69> ah, not to sure what you mean
<BigRedS> I want a single page that acts like a wiki
<BigRedS> such that anyone can edit it, but I don't need a whole wiki with pages and searching and the like
<dogmatic69> ah ok
<BigRedS> but I also don't wnat people to need to log in, just pass a captcha
<dogmatic69> php?
<BigRedS> and I'm not sure I can be bothered to take a single-page wiki and add a captcha
<BigRedS> yeah, not really bothered what it's written in if it saves me writing it :)
<dogmatic69> ok, so looking for complete solution then
<BigRedS> yeah
<BigRedS> ideally
<BigRedS> else I'll bodge a horrific nearly-captcha onto an existing single-page one
<BigRedS> but I've been meaning to do that for weeks now
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: how about "what is 10 + 32 [   ]"
<dogmatic69> if($_POST['foo'] != 42) {throw new ...}
<jacobw> i can't believe it's not friday
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: yeah, that sort of thing
<BigRedS> Anyone know of a single-page wiki written in Perl to reccomend? :)
<bubu> anyone here running opernwrt with pptp?
<jacobw> Why Perl?
 * bigcalm returns!
<jacobw> I hate Perl
<jacobw> Python for the win
<bigcalm> Poor Perl doesn't get much love these days
<jacobw> Camels are smelly
<BigRedS> jacobw: 'cause I know it
<BigRedS> and I've written far too much PHP recently for me to want any more
<BigRedS> I think I've settled on foswiki
<BigRedS> I've certainly downloaded it
<n1md4> I hate ubuntu :(  it always annoys me in little ways like nothing else can ....
<dogmatic69> n1md4: nothing stopping you from using windows
<n1md4> no
<n1md4> :)
<n1md4> I like Debian though ...
<BigRedS> n1md4's not someone to get into constructive discussions about Linux with :)
<bigcalm> n1md4: if you hate Ubuntu, then you are in the wrong channel :)
<n1md4> Because I'm in the same office as kirrus and bigreds ;)
<bigcalm> Trolls will not be fed in here :)
<n1md4> :O
<BigRedS> I can unplug his network if you like?
<n1md4> :@ !!!!!
 * n1md4 has had a long day
<jacobw> all days are of equal length
<bigcalm> And some are more equal than others
<BigRedS> twice as long in unicode
 * bigcalm tootles off to Dominos :D
<jacobw> lol
<Azelphur> 39c, new record for my room \o/
 * Azelphur wonders how hot it's actually safe to exist in
<jacobw> people exist in up to 60c
<Azelphur> fun
<jacobw> i've heard it's not actually possible to tell the difference between 50 and 60
<Azelphur> hehe
<jacobw> wikipedia tells me that 57.8c is hottest temperature recorded on earth
<jacobw> in aziziya, libya
<Azelphur> :D
<jacobw> the hotttest in the UK a chilly 38.5c
<jacobw> what does paste.ubuntu.com run?
<MartijnVdS> Software!
 * jacobw wraps MartijnVdS in cling film and throws in a river
 * MartijnVdS gives jacobw the coc to read
<MartijnVdS> and a pm :P
<jacobw> i think that might be against the CoC :)
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: it's a friendly pm, those are allowed :)
<jacobw> haha
<jacobw> i want a pastebin on my network, i'm failing to find a deployable implementation
<dobby156> hi
<dobby156> is this a casual IRC or strictly on topic? if not does anyone have any dominoes pizza 2 for one vouchers codes?
<jacobw> i could probably write one given a weekend in a quiet room
<jacobw> it's casual chat about anything techies are interested in
<dobby156> jacobw: well as a techie I definitely like pizza
<dobby156> so you don't have one?
<jacobw> i have a frozen pizza in my freezer :)
<dobby156> what toppings?
<jacobw> spinach
<dobby156> that sounds gross
<jacobw> it's the football soon
<jacobw> which isn't a popular topic on this channel and only popular with me because i'm living outside of the UK right now
<dobby156> that and football is boring
<bigcalm> Back once again
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: renegade master?
<bigcalm> D4 damager
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: with the ill behaviour
<bigcalm> Power to the people
<bigcalm> And that's it
<directhex> dobby156: those codes are usually per-store
<MartijnVdS> .......: spotify:album:7Lczo6oXOkBjudsdYJKWss
<dobby156> directhex: oh
<dobby156> :(
<lmger> i ran into a nasty lightdm bug and installed gdm. i run 12.04 without unity. i have xfce and MATE installed. How can i hide users from GDM on 12.04???
<samuel> helloooo
 * bigcalm awakens
<Azelphur> EVERYBODY HIDE.
 * Azelphur dives behind a wall
<samuel> aha, so people DO talk here!
<Azelphur> sometimes
<Azelphur> but only when nobody is looking.
<bigcalm> I talk during office hours or when I am awakened by notification :)
<diplo> evening all
<samuel> <jealous>how which irc client are you using</jealous> xchat has not delivered me notifications since i installed 12.04 and started using unity :(
<Azelphur> I use pidgin but I go by sound notifications rather than visual
<samuel> i never quite "got" using pidgin for irc, xchat reminds me of the old days with mirc and the like
<samuel> i just wish it had a notification area icon like it does in gnome shell
<samuel> i use gnome shell on linux mint (dont hate me!) but at home i have stuck with good ole unity
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> samuel: pidgin is not the best of IRC clients, I use a bouncer so I can do IRC multiple presence, whenever I need to do power user stuff I just fire up pidgin.
<Azelphur> fire up xchat*
<brobostigon> ohdear, looks like they are going to ditch mock the week, for the tennis, :(
<samuel> better write in to points of view then
<samuel> you never know, you might be the first to moan about it and get your letter read out ;)
<brobostigon> i think, mock the week, will make more people happier, and laugh, than the tennis will.
<Azelphur> xD
<brobostigon> yep, they just announced, mock the week is ditched, :(
 * brobostigon shakes fist.
<bigcalm> It's had a good run
<bigcalm> And shall live forever on Dave
<brobostigon> the tennis yes, it should be ditched.
<brobostigon> bigcalm: it is a new series of mock the week, not old.
<bigcalm> Oh, sorry. Phew :D
<bigcalm> brobostigon: my fault for not reading
<brobostigon> bigcalm: no worries.
<ali1234> never mind, total recall is on itv2
<ali1234> it just started 5 minutes ago
<Azelphur> ali1234: ever since I reassembled my G19 it hasn't boot looped, :D
<brobostigon> good idea ali1234
<Azelphur> yay for accidentally fixing things
<samuel> watch total recall instead
<ali1234> Azelphur: you mean after you switched back to the proper power supply
<Azelphur> ali1234: no, because the whole point of the new power supply was to stop the boot looping
<Azelphur> it was boot looping before on stock, now it's not
<Azelphur> I think I had 2 issues, a loose connection inside the G19, and then adding the new power supply just made things worse with it's loose connection
<samuel> get your a$$ back to mars!
<ali1234> 5 minutes in arnold is already making silly noises
<ali1234> i love this movie
<Azelphur> xD
<samuel> +1
<samuel> lol
<samuel> so what is everyone running? as in right now what you are typing here from?
<Azelphur> XUbuntu 12.04
<AlanBell> quantal
<samuel> hardware and sw
<brobostigon> debian unstable.
<brobostigon> eeepc
<Azelphur> samuel: bit of an old photo, but https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/2010-03-31%2022.36.43.jpg
<AlanBell> samsung R530 with core i3 chip, 8GB ram and a 240GB SSD
<samuel> how is quantal so far? i have a spare netbook that i like to use for testing
<AlanBell> quantal is a lot like precise
<Azelphur> samuel: i7 950 oc'd with water 12GB DDR3 1600 ram, ssd + 4 hdds, gtx 570 xD
<samuel> azelphur, nice battle station!
<Azelphur> ty xD
<christel> who was it that thought me plumbing in here that time
<Azelphur> thought you plumbing?
<AlanBell> christel: gordonjcp mostly I think
<samuel> well i'm typing this from a HP DM1 with AMD E450 and 4gb ram
<AlanBell> have you broken something christel?
<samuel> seriously considering swapping my hdd for an ssd, recommended?
<AlanBell> samuel: do it! dabs have a good offer today
<christel> i have a Leaking Tap
<christel> :D
<christel> or rather, i have a POURINg tap
<christel> it suddenly wont turn off!
<AlanBell> oh dear. Does it have an isolation valve under it?
<christel> no idea, how do i tell?
<samuel> big performance boost? does an ssd run any cooler?
<christel> (thank jebus i am not on a meter, i'd end up with a water bill to rival that guys vodafone bill)
<ali1234> isolation valve? la-dee-da
<samuel> ubuntu only turns my laptops fan on full blast when it gets over 65c :/
<AlanBell> follow the pipes down and see if there is something that might be a valve, might be a screwdriver to turn it
<AlanBell> christel: might look like http://www.screwfix.com/p/15mm-full-bore-isolating-valve/46860?cm_mmc=GoogleBase-_-Datafeed-_-Heating%20and%20Plumbing-_-15mm%20Full%20Bore%20Isolating%20Valve
<christel> will it be inside my tap?!
<ali1234> no
<AlanBell> no, it will be in the cupboard below the tap
<ali1234> it's like another tap further down the pipe
<ali1234> usually known as a stop-tap by normal people
<samuel> AllanBell, did you have any trouble with the function keys on your laptop? or the backlight?
<christel> oh, then n
<christel> o
<christel> it is a bathroom tap
<AlanBell> bath or sink?
<ali1234> there definitely will be one somewhere
<christel> sink
<christel> so under the sink there are PIPES, there might be a thingiewotsit valve inside the sink (!?) but that would involve breaking it to check
<christel> and then i'd get water everywhere!
<AlanBell> yeah, don't do that!
<christel> also, my new house confuses me
<christel> i appear to have 3 stop cocks
<christel> is this normal?
 * AlanBell resists typing something suggestive
<AlanBell> dunno, how new is the house?
<christel> not new new but not super old
<christel> 50s
<AlanBell> same as mine, old enough if the plumbing is original (mine isn't)
<christel> with a more recent extension, in which two of the stopcocks live
<AlanBell> oh, right that explains why they are there then, to isolate that area
<AlanBell> are the taps on flexible connectors like this? http://www.screwfix.com/p/flexible-tap-connector-with-valve-15mm-x-3-4/67794?cm_mmc=GoogleBase-_-Datafeed-_-Heating%20and%20Plumbing-_-Flexible%20Tap%20Connector%20With%20Valve%2015mm%20x%203%2F4%22
<christel> there is also one in the downstairs loo, which i think was created after the kitchen was moved to the extension
<christel> (and where the leaking tap is)
<AlanBell> the isolation valve might be at the bottom of the flexible part if you are lucky
<christel> no :(
<christel> they are just taps.. coming out of the sink, out of which water comes, constantly
<christel> (i am not very useful am i?) :D
<AlanBell> got a photo of the underneith bit?
<christel> but i cant see the underneath bit
<christel> surely that is inside the sink?
<samuel_> whoops, did i miss much?
 * christel goes investigate
<samuel_> so you say that dabs have special offers on ssds, better than ebuyer you reckon?
<AlanBell> http://www.dabs.com/products/kingston-128gb-ssdnow-v200-sata-6gb-s-2-5--solid-state-drive-7V53.html
<christel> ok, AlanBell you win -- i have a underside thing! (i am not sure where i thought the taps came from but i was convinced that the only thing under the sink was the pipes!) -- it appears to be a thick fairly solid threaded "thing" with a plastic nut at the top and a metal nut where thethreaded bit joins the smooth pipe thingie
<AlanBell> I always knew you had an underside thing
<christel> :P
<brobostigon> lol
<bigcalm> \o/
<christel> oh photo.. shall i go take a photo?
<bigcalm> christel: do you take requests?
<AlanBell> yeah photo would be great
<christel> bigcalm: :P
<bigcalm> christel: ;D
<Azelphur> yay, things are finally cooling down
<Azelphur> "cool" = 30c in this room xD
<directhex> the ssdnow v200 is a couple of generations old, which is why it's cheap
<AlanBell> yeah, would still perk up an unexciting laptop
<christel> http://imgur.com/a/fnthS
<christel> i even include one of the LEAK!
<bigcalm> christel: is the white pipe copper or plastic?
<diplo> christel: That will be the seal inside the tap if the tap doesnt turn off
<christel> bigcalm: copper it is just painted
<bigcalm> christel: the collar possibly just wants tightening
<christel> diplo: do you now want a picture of INSIDE my tap!?
<christel> :(
<christel> (how do i thingie the seal or tighten the collar?)
<diplo> Need to turn water off to taps
<diplo> normally a screw on top or as bigcalm says a collar
<diplo> undo that and a rubber seal inside will more than likely be flatand degraded
<dogmatic69> If I have my dns set as x.x.x.x should traceroute show x.x.x.x as the first entry?
<dogmatic69> it does not show at all.
<directhex> dogmatic69: no
<dogmatic69> :/
<christel> ok -- so if i turn it off on the stopcock and it stops er, leaking then i what, remove the actually turny bit that i use to turn water on/off and look for a thingiewotsit inside it?
<diplo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SR6vnfNLr-8  christel
<AlanBell> yeah, off at the stopcock as there is no isolation valve
<directhex> dogmatic69: it's not part of the actual route. dns resolution happens first, then the route is traced after
<AlanBell> that looks like original aged plumbing
<diplo> Gives you the general idea
<brunogirin> diplo: that's the one I was going to post :-)
<diplo> heh
<dogmatic69> directhex: is there a way to check the dns is correcly used?
<directhex> dogmatic69: you could try nslookup www.google.com :p
<christel> <3
<diplo> It's honestly really easy to do
<dogmatic69> directhex: thanks
<dogmatic69> directhex: that only shows the first dns server used
<diplo> Just pop to local B&Q/Wickes and the rubber washers come in an assorted pack normally to fit all tap sizes
<directhex> dogmatic69: ... right? that's how DNS works. you make the request to the first server. you'll only go to the backup if the primary says it can't fulfil the request
<directhex> dogmatic69: and the dns server's job is to obtain any missing results & cache them
<brunogirin> dogmatic69: you can do dnslookup <site> <server> to force a particular server to answer
<dogmatic69> directhex: ye, but I have a local dns that forwards most addresses
<christel> will it be messy?
<christel> (wet)
<AlanBell> not if you turn off the water
<directhex> dogmatic69: okay, so you only ever get results from the local dns. those forwards are reported by the local. so your client gets results from the local
<diplo> Best thing is turn tap on and then turn stop cock off, just to maek sure all water has gone
<diplo> Should be fine then :)
<dogmatic69> directhex: I need to establish that the router/bt dns is not used at all
<christel> am i likely to have a cold water tank?
<dogmatic69> pc -> local dns -> 8.8.8.8 -> website is what I want
<AlanBell> christel: yes
<bigcalm> christel: yes
<directhex> dogmatic69: so why aren't you looking at the local dns's logs?
<dogmatic69> there are none :/
<directhex> dogmatic69: is the router in /etc/resolv.conf?
<christel> oh
<dogmatic69> nslookup google.com <routerip> works
<christel> will i have to empty that before the water stops/how long will that tak
<christel> e
<directhex> i'm going to bed.
<dogmatic69> directhex: the dns server has 'supersede domain-name-servers 8.8.8.8, 8.8.4.4;' in /etc/dhcp/dhclient.conf and the pc has 'supersede domain-name-servers 192.168.1.2;' which is the dns server
<dogmatic69> router is 192.168.1.254 btw
<bigcalm> christel: it's normal for taps down stairs to come straight off of the mains water supply. Taps upstairs generally are off the water tanks. So turn off the water supply (wherever it is), turn on the taps upstairs and let them run dry
<directhex> and if you dig www.google.com who is resolving?
<christel> ooh
<bigcalm> I'd like somebody to back me up on that statement please :)
<AlanBell> there might be a valve somewhere christel that means you don't have to drain it
<christel> so if i then go upstaris and just turn on both the baths and both the sinks it might run dry quickish?
<christel> ooh
<dogmatic69> directhex: 192.168.1.2 so the dns
<AlanBell> bigcalm: certainly kitchen tap is always from the rising main
<AlanBell> christel: and flush the toilets
<dogmatic69> directhex: and from the dns, it is 8.8.8.8 so I guess it is correct
<AlanBell> if you can't find a valve that stops it quicker
<diplo> I always turn mains off christel and then as others suggested turn all the taps on to make sure :)
<bigcalm> In this house the bathroom cold tap is off the mains. Same in the last house I had as well
<diplo> Better safe than sorry
<christel> should i turn off all the stopcocks?
<AlanBell> christel: maybe take this opportunity to find out what each one does
<christel> hehe
<bigcalm> :)
<AlanBell> run all the taps, turn off stopcocks see what happens
 * bigcalm nods
<AlanBell> and make notes
 * diplo agrees with AlanBell 
<AlanBell> toilets are taps too remember
<christel> oooh this is like a game :D
<christel> do i need any special tools?!
<AlanBell> no
<Myrtti> poor christel
<bigcalm> For for testing things
<bigcalm> +not
<diplo> When undoing the tap have a rag around what ever you use to loosen it off if you don't want it scratched
<samuel_> thanks for the link AlanBell,  i will have to check the read/write speeds of that though
<samuel_> i will bookmark it, then if natwest ever give me my wages i might be able to buy one :P
<AlanBell> samuel_: yeah, as directhex noted it isn't a high end SSD, it just seemed like a good budget price one
<AlanBell> the speeds on some SSDs require sata3 to get them
<brunogirin> samuel_: having bought a basic SSD for an old laptop a few years ago, I can heartily recommend it: it gave it a second lease of life!
<samuel_> i have seen ocz ones with almost identical read/write speeds that cost about the same though
<samuel_> but i wonder if it will make any difference anyway
<AlanBell> they are falling in price all the time
<samuel_> yeah, i'm not bothered about it wearing out or not having enough space, by the time those are issues i will be able to economically replace it, or i wont be using the same laptop anymore
<popey> \o/ SSD
<samuel_> i was considering getting an ssd for my netbook before i took it on holiday with me
<samuel_> ants started to live inside it so in my infinite wisdom i decided it would be a good idea to cover the keyboard in insecticide
<samuel_> which melted the surface of the keys
<AlanBell> nice
<AlanBell> das keyboard netbook
<samuel_> yah, so now every bit of fluff sticks to the keyboard
<diplo> samuel_: Take it off and clean it ?
<samuel_> but even before that i had somehow managed to break the power switch, and the only way to switch it on was with a cocktail stick
<samuel_> the surface of the keys has a different texture now, it attracts fluff like velcro
<christel> i think  may do Plumbing tomorrow! :p
<diplo> Sounds like a new keyboard from ebay ?
<diplo> I say that's sensible christel :)
<christel> indeed! hehe
<diplo> Can call one of the Alans when you get stuck then
<samuel_> i use it as a file server now :D the battery will go for 9 hours so even if some idiot pulls the plug out my file shares and torrents can still be active all day :D
 * AlanBell will call christel next time there is plumbing to do
<bigcalm> Hehe
<christel> hehe
<diplo> Google I/O talked me into trying Chrome Canary
<samuel_> my old netbook is a samsung n150
<samuel_> gave me many tears regarding hardware compatibility
<samuel_> but i dare say it taught me alot about patching the kernel and blacklisting drivers
<samuel_> but the realtek wireless chip on it has always been junk regardless of which kernel
<AlanBell> wonder if I should do a das keyboard ultimate layout for onboard
<AlanBell> theme rather
<samuel_> i have never been a fan of floating keyboards as an input method
<samuel_> only perhaps as an accessibility tool
<samuel_> i tried an acer iconia with windows 7 which has a floating keyboard, it was a right pain to type with compared to android tablets with the more embedded keyboard
<ali1234> "Phone start-up failed. Contact the retailer."
<ali1234> hehehe
<AlanBell> I have not tried onboard on a touchscreen, I would like to
<AlanBell> ali1234: give them a call
<AlanBell> oh
<samuel_> the gnome shell onscreen keyboard is excellant
<ali1234> the procedure for downgrading this symbian involves flashing 4 different firmwares
<ali1234> i think it's working this time, cos last time i just got a white screen at this point
<samuel_> it can be set to appear when you click in a text box and goes away when you click anywhere else
<samuel_> the only trouble is, like with onboard, if the text area is near the bottom of the screen your kinda screwed
<AlanBell> onboard can do that too
<AlanBell> if the text area is at the bottom of the screen you can drag onboard to the top :)
<AlanBell> I think onboard needs to grow the little letter thumb things that pop out of the key when you press it, people like those on phones
<samuel_> yeah the problem is, on a tablet you want to type with your thumbs, if you cant keep the onscreen keyboard in one place you cant get any meaningful typing done
<samuel_> what would be better is if the onscreen keyboard temporarily takes over the screen, that would allow you to type a good amount
<AlanBell> I would like it to be integrated into unity really
<samuel_> so text always appears here and keyboard always appears there, consistancy is good
<samuel_> yeah me too! at the moment gnome shell with a few mods is better on a touch device than unity
<AlanBell> so it pops up like the HUD or something
<AlanBell> though possibly at the bottom of the screen
<samuel_> i think on a tablet a capcitive or hardware button for HUD would be favourable
<AlanBell> gord: have you stopped stealing the alt key from virtual machines yet? I might turn the HUD back on if that is fixed.
<samuel_> if you look at what android does, that is a good example of how the onscreen keyboard can be implemented
<AlanBell> Bug #938764
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 741869 in compiz (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #938764 Unity/compiz intercepts Super and Alt keypresses from grabbed windows like VMs." [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/741869
<samuel_> when you click on a text box in a website you get a screen with text entry at top and keyboard at bottom
<AlanBell> samuel_: yeah, I installed the hackers keyboard on android
<AlanBell> Bug #741869
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 741869 in compiz (Ubuntu) "Unity/compiz intercepts Super and Alt keypresses from grabbed windows like VMs." [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/741869
<samuel_> i wonder if we will get HUD and unity panel integration on libre office in 12.10
<ali1234> AWESOME
<ali1234> downgrade successful
#ubuntu-uk 2012-06-29
<popey> mng
<Azelphur> pfft morning, I havn't slept yet
<DJones> Morning
<diplo> Morning all
<dwatkins> that's it, the apocalypse has begun - Scotland will be underwater in a day.
<popey> Yay! Maybe we'll stop hearing them bleat on about devolution :)
<dwatkins> I wouldn't complain if that quietly disappeared, popey
<dwatkins> It makes no sense to me, why peel-off as a separate country when you don't have many resources aside from oil and tourism...
<dwatkins> anyhoo, phone rings
<dwatkins> ...and it was a wrong number
<dwatkins> sometimes I get calls from people in switzerland wondering where their order of whiskey has gotten to, as the customer services number is similar to our number for some alcohol delivery company.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<DJones> How well do Epson printers work with ubuntu, just looking at getting an epson stylus sx535wd, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1919803&highlight=epson+stylus suggests it may not be 100% working
<mattt> morning all
 * mattt fist pumps at the thought of friday
<jacobw> morning
<bigcalm> Is there any point in updating the kernel image on a bytemark vm is the vm doesn't use them?
<JamesTait> Happy Friday, folks! :-D
<bigcalm> Yay Friday \o/
<christel> FRIDAY
<christel> :D:D:D:DD:D
<bigcalm> christel: how are you my dear?
<christel> i am WELL
<bigcalm> Ready to get wet?
<christel> no :(
<diplo> heh
 * AlanBell has full confidence in christel's plumbing ability
<kvarley> Anybody know how I can configure this (https://gtk-apps.org/content/show.php/ctrlwm?content=114565) to act like the snapping in Ubuntu 12.04? I can't seem to get it to work.
<bigcalm> Time to tinker with the home server :)
<brobostigon> good morning eveyrone.
<bigcalm> I freaking rock!
<bigcalm> Woo me!
<brobostigon> \o/
<bigcalm> brobostigon: I agree
<pyshispythonbash> I want to install debain
<pyshispythonbash> debian *
<brobostigon> bigcalm: what happened then?
<pyshispythonbash> I am going to use CDs
<pyshispythonbash> BUT
<bigcalm> pyshispythonbash: try a #debian channel?
<pyshispythonbash> do I use one CD?
<brobostigon> pyshispythonbash: you should be fine, for the basics, with the first two.
<brobostigon> if not just the first.
<diplo> Anyone recommend a way of checking that I am the only one logged in to a system
<AlanBell> users
<pyshispythonbash> ahhh ok
<brobostigon> i thought that is what the users command was for?
<bigcalm> brobostigon: just managed to mount 2.5" drives into the 3.5" cradle bays of my HP Microserver
<brobostigon> bigcalm: cool, :)
<ormiret> pyshispythonbash: If you'll have an internet connection while installing the net_install disk is a nice small base
<bigcalm> diplo: w who users, those 3 will help
<diplo> yeah not sure how I am getting that to work AlanBell / bigcalm
<pyshispythonbash> well I guess my wifi wont work
<diplo> I basically want to identify that my shell is the only one logged in
<diplo> IE
<diplo> USER     TTY      FROM              LOGIN@   IDLE   JCPU   PCPU WHAT
<diplo> root     tty1     -                Wed15   24:49m  0.04s  0.04s -bash
<diplo> root     pts/0    192.168.1.16     Thu10    0.00s  0.07s  0.01s w
<bigcalm> diplo: try these 3: w, who, users
<diplo> All give same output, basically i am running a script and want to make sure no one is accessing cisam database
<diplo> Hmm, maybe I just use lsof instead
<oimon> whowatch
<bigcalm> <bigcalm> diplo: w who users, those 3 will help
<bigcalm> Oops
<diplo> :)
<ormiret> pyshispythonbash: It probably could be made to work, but you would have to do some configuring yourself, a wired connection is much easier.
<bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1065731/
<diplo> yeah they all output the same info, what if we had 2 users logged in with same name
<brobostigon> ormiret: if i remember, some wifi does work with the debian installer, but no closed blobs, and in kernel alone support.
<diplo> Want to check my login is the only one logged in ig uess
<diplo> Script something around id pid maybe ?
<bigcalm> diplo: how would you have 2 different users with the same login name?
<AlanBell> that is you logged in twice
<diplo> So at our company we don't allow our customers root
<diplo> So they login with our company name as a user for sysadmin work
<diplo> As do I
<diplo> So it could be them or me, and one of those users could be accessing a db file
<oimon> diplo, it's the console
<oimon> are you referrign to the tty1 line?
<diplo> nah that was just an example :)
<oimon> oh
<AlanBell> shared logins mean you don't know who is who
<diplo> 99% of the time they will be logged in remotely
<diplo> Yep, not my fault :( legacy setup and I don't setup any of the systems
<diplo> I fix there issues
<AlanBell> yeah, it is pretty common
<diplo> So just trying to work out how to identify me before checking
<AlanBell> pstree maybe
<diplo> so if(id = me) and who only includes me, run script
<AlanBell> or lsof
<diplo> heh lsof was my next choice
<diplo> lsof | grep cisam
<diplo> -bash: lsof: command not found
<diplo> :(
 * diplo gets clearance to add more software
<AlanBell> try pstree
<oimon> if you always login from the same ip , then grep it out of w results
<diplo> ooh pstree is there, not used that before
 * diplo investigates
<diplo> oimon: Nice idea, but again most of the times this user will be logged in locally :(
<diplo> I'm basically trying to cover my behind that's all
<diplo> I was just going to do who -a and if more than 1 exit
<diplo> But I thought I'd do it properly for once, as this company take so many shortcuts already :)
<diplo> bigcalm: On your proliant w/who etc list your currently logged in user ?
<diplo> As on my desktop here I get from w 0 users and who nothing at all
<bigcalm> diplo: yes, I noticed that on my desktop I only got a result from w
<diplo> heh, see this is why my script has gone from 40-50 lines to 200+ now
<bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1065744/
<diplo> Good way to learn python but I'm having to work to make it work on different OS's/versions
<diplo> yeah exactly what I get
<diplo> At least that makes me feel better
<bigcalm> diplo: so users are logging in via a gui rather than a terminal
<diplo> ( Sorry all for the diplo spam )
<diplo> I'll give a quick outlay of what we have maybe
<diplo> ?
<bigcalm> o.O
<diplo> So we basically have a legacy ( talking 20 years old ) system that we write text based that users log into, this connects them to a cisam database to read files, when doing backups if there are any users logged in doing anything with data the idx/dat files will get out of sync
<diplo> Cisam as far as i can find gives no offical way of backing up
<diplo> So basically I need to be 100% sure that no users are logged in to cover all bases
<diplo> I have a script that kills all users, but I hate running it
<AlanBell> so give the backup system a different user name
<diplo> Now I did think of that, but hadn't thought about it since
<diplo> That's a good idea and simple
<diplo> Why didn't i just go for that before, trying to over engineer it
<AlanBell> heh
<davmor2> morning all
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<davmor2> bigcalm: you got ICS yet?
<popey> hmmm
<bigcalm> davmor2: not when I checked this morning
<popey> anyone else noticed that a recent update to precise causes grub to appear where previously it didnt?
<bigcalm> popey: yes
<popey> my mum phoned because her computer has a box on the screen, and I just rebooted my server and its the same
<popey> no countdown, it just sits there
<AlanBell> davmor2: I haven't got it either, need to find someone who still uses windows to run kies to update it
<ali1234> a box?
<bigcalm> AlanBell: he means on the xoom
<ali1234> on the screen?
<popey> grub menu
<ali1234> ooo
<pyshispythonbash> i didn't update
<ali1234> ijust updated
<ali1234> i'll just not reboot
<pyshispythonbash> lol
<popey> please do, to confirm it
<popey> :)
<davmor2> AlanBell: this is an over the air for the xoom
<pyshispythonbash> type sudo shutdown -r
<bigcalm> popey: I can confirm
<popey> also, for some reason my server no longer gets an IP address
<popey> ta
<bigcalm> Oh dear
<bigcalm> merlin?
<popey> no, home server
<bigcalm> Oh
<AlanBell> scary stuff
 * AlanBell updates home server to see what happens
<pyshispythonbash> lol
<ali1234> if i put cyanogenmod on my phone, is it "good"?
<ali1234> i mean is it usable without crashing every day?
<popey> was fine when i used it
<popey> but i guess it depends on the version, hardware, how much you fiddle with bits
<bigcalm> ali1234: I had CM 7.2 on my Nexus One and it improved it
<bigcalm> Well, I started when it was v6, it's improved a lot and is very stable
<bigcalm> I cannot say for CM 9
<diplo> ali1234: I've used 7.1 for months now and made massive improvements to my wildfire
<ali1234> hmm
<diplo> Also my work colleague was having battery issues with his Desire for months
<ali1234> i'll try 9 and if it sucks put 7 on it
<diplo> Eventually talked him into upgrading to cm7 and it fixed most of his issues
<ali1234> i've got samsung rom now, and it crashes every day :(
<ali1234> can't really be much worse
<ali1234> hmm software center has some new bits on it?
<ali1234> or it's just gone bananas?
<ali1234> http://ubuntuone.com/2E0o82BujwgU5Gim95HPYp
<ali1234> i figure the CM9 kernel should be mostly the same right?
<bigcalm> Humm
<bigcalm> My desktop isn't getting an IP now
<bigcalm> Fudge
<AlanBell> gosh
<bigcalm> Today's upgrade was not a good one
<bigcalm> I just had to set the connection manually
<gord> hum, nexus 7 pricepoint is much more agreeable to gord than ipads
<dwatkins> what got upgraded, bigcalm?
<bigcalm> Kernel
<dwatkins> oh my
<dwatkins> that reminds me, I need to setup stuff on my DHCP server
<diplo> Ooh I upgraded earlier, not rebooted yet
 * diplo leaves work PC on over weekend to get fix updates
<AlanBell> dhcp3-client dhcp3-common grub-common grub-pc grub-pc-bin grub2-common would seem likely to be the offending updates
<AlanBell> is there some kind of OH NO IT IS ALL GOING WRONG procedure for this popey?
<AlanBell> get those pulled from the archive or something
<popey> change the bulb
<bigcalm> Haha
<dwatkins> how many engineers does that take? ;)
<bigcalm> Aye, it'll be dhcp at fault rather than the kernel
<AlanBell> how did those not get caught in -proposed?
<bigcalm> Someone rushing?
 * bigcalm blames davmor2
<davmor2> bigcalm: why me I don't test that stuff at all :P
<bigcalm> davmor2: you're closer to hand, that's why ;)
<davmor2> bigcalm: well you can blame me all you want I don't have nothing to do with it, and won't fix it, at least blame gord or popey they are at least devs :P
<popey> I am _so_ not a dev
<popey> AlanBell, have you discovered a bug?
<davmor2> popey: more of a dev than I am :P
<AlanBell> popey: not yet, I haven't rebooted, just installing updates
<bigcalm> I didn't think popey was a dev?
<gord> i wouldn't blame me for dhcp problems. i still have to put my home server in my hosts file because i never figured out how to get it to work with dhcp
 * bigcalm reads up
 * bigcalm shuts down his server to install a 2nd 2.5" drive \o/
<bigcalm> Two 2.5" USB drives are now two 2.5" internal drives in the proliant!
<bigcalm> Makes access time a bit quicker and removes the ugly USB cables :D
<popey> \o/
<bigcalm> Using the 2.5" -> 3.5" converters and SATA extension cables
<bigcalm> Because of the drive sizes, the cables nestle nicely next to them
<bigcalm> I feel like a proper geek today
<gord> i have a front loader bay thingy on my machine, cables are so neat and tidy
<gord> they all hide behind the back of the case even
<ali1234> ok, i'm puzzled. i installed the CM9 and the gapps zip but i don't have any gapps :(
<bigcalm> My fingers are a little sore from using that special alan key for mounting the drives though
<ali1234> this is a lot faster than i was expecting
<bigcalm> ali1234: it's odd I agree. But you'll have access to them via the play store
<ali1234> but i don't have play store link...
<bigcalm> You don't?
<bigcalm> Oh dear
<ali1234> i don't think so
<bigcalm> Odd
<diplo> Not still the old name ?
<diplo> And need to update for it to fix
<diplo> ?
<bigcalm> Aye, might be market
<ali1234> i just installed the nightly build...
<diplo> the gapps
<ali1234> i don't see either
<bigcalm> Tsk. Why didn't you get the RC1?
<diplo> Hmm, not seen that before.
<ali1234> cos the nightly is newer
<ali1234> and because there's no rc1 for this phone
<bigcalm> ali1234: and more likely to be broken :)
<bigcalm> Ah, you're living on the edge :)
<ali1234> reinstalled the zip from recovery, i think it might be working now
<ali1234> yes it worked
<christel> invoicing-- :
<christel> i really really really do not enjoy invoicing
<ali1234> hmm it doesn't remember all my apps?
<diplo> christel: Done that tap yet ?
 * bigcalm taps christel
<diplo> Nope, should remember your wireless settings etc though
<bigcalm> LUNCH!
<mattt> LOONCH
<diplo> Yes please bigcalm
<christel> bigcalm: norty.
<christel> diplo: not yet! i am er, doing some invoicing first!
<diplo> Priorities :D
 * diplo thinks google hangout is in order when you start :)
<christel> hahaha so you can all laugh at me when i get water EVERYWHERE? :P
<diplo> heh yep
<diplo> What other good uses are hangouts for
 * gord is imagining something clsoe to http://www.gifbin.com/983856
<gord> close*
<diplo> lol
<AlanBell> popey: bigcalm: I just installed precise server in a VM and updated and rebooted and it is fine
<popey> hmm
<greenian2> hello all
<popey> hi
<greenian2> hi popey
<oimon> ali1234, the only thing that crashes on my CM is facebook if it start it too early after switching on phone, but thats fb issue
<oimon> i had a crashy cm install on my touchpad once, but i reflashed it and the problems went away
<AlanBell> I should be able to install CM9 without upgrading to stock ICS first right?
<brobostigon> in chrome now, it is showing two flash plugins, the adobe one, and the pepperflash one, does it matter having both enabled, or should i disable one?
<brobostigon> AlanBell: yes.
<oimon> saw someone mention that chromium ppa in ubuntu hasn't recived updates since v18
<brobostigon> AlanBell: you will need engineering reoverry though,
<brobostigon> oimon: that is correct.
<brobostigon> recovery*
<oimon> think i'll stick to firefox
<bigcalm> AlanBell: yes, you're replacing the whole OS
<AlanBell> ok, and from there I can install boot to gecko
<bigcalm> AlanBell: http://wiki.cyanogenmod.com/wiki/Samsung_Galaxy_S_II:_Full_Update_Guide
<ali1234> ICS is really good
<ali1234> they've fixed the super ugly g+ client too
<bigcalm> ali1234: everybody sees that update
<diplo> AlanBell: you going to try and run B2G on your phone ?
<AlanBell> yeah probably
<diplo> ooh, let me know how you get on
<diplo> I don't have a device I can try it with yet
<The_Fred> hello
 * bigcalm scratches his head
<bigcalm> I now have 52.2GB of space on my dropbox account - why?
<bigcalm> I don't pay them any money
<diplo> S3 recently ?
<diplo> If so that's why :)
<bigcalm> Ah :D
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> I didn't know that would happen
<diplo> Think it's an agreement with Samsung
<bigcalm> Though I was surprised that dropbox was installed by default
<bigcalm> Email just came in: Congrats on becoming a Dropbox Guru! We've awarded you 48 GB of bonus space for the next 24 months!
<bigcalm> 2 years only eh?
<bigcalm> I won't go over my original limit then
<diplo> Might as well make use of it ?
<diplo> In 2 years dropbox may have dropped their prices
<ali1234> also in 2 years you will buy a new phone
<bigcalm> I currently don't pay anything to dropbox, why would I want to start?
<bigcalm> ali1234: possibly true
<diplo> But in 2 years you just canccel
<diplo> ?
<diplo> Might as well use 50GB for 2 years
<bigcalm> Anyway, I don't actually use that much
<diplo> Me either, but I intend to use more when I can afford to get myself a better phone
<diplo> The wildfire does work, but for stuff i want to do it dies a lot
<diplo> :(
<bigcalm> I'll be putting CM 7.2 onto Hayley's Wildfire at the weekend
<diplo> Going to do mine tonight I think
<bigcalm> Breath some life into it and stop her from wanting to buy a new phone
<bigcalm> Oh, you haven't got it on there already?
<diplo> Nope, 7.1
<bigcalm> Oh, but you do have CM :)
<diplo> Couldn't be bothered with reinstalling apps
<diplo> yeah
<bigcalm> Apps are meant to install themselves if you have it set right
<diplo> oh, know where that is set ?
<bigcalm> It's a sync option when you add your gmail account. But I don't know how to re-activate it if you skipped it one 1st setup
<diplo> Well I suppose would be good to know if it's activated in the first place
<bigcalm> When I added a gmail account to my SGS3, it automatically installed a load of apps I had on my nexus one
<diplo> Oh, well looking here https://play.google.com/store/account
<diplo> I can see a list of apps installed
<diplo> So may just give it a go
<diplo> not the end of the world :)
<DJones> bigcalm: I've not seen that happen before, it didn't do it when I registered my tablet with the same gmail account
<diplo> Titanium backup supposedly does some of the app reinstalling
<ali1234> bigcalm: that is exactly what didn't happen when i upgraded
<ali1234> i expected it would but it didn't
<bigcalm> Oh well :)
<czajkowski> anyone else find they are a me too on this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1019233
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1019233 in Launchpad itself "The "Contact this team's members" option is problematic for large projects" [High,Triaged]
<bigcalm> Royal Mail are annoying. https://twitter.com/bigcalm/status/218678706921684992/photo/1/large - this will be a birthday card
<davmor2> bigcalm: dude thanks for the heads up on update for the superhub for the modem only mode this seems less up/down than it was, speed fluctuates but I can deal with that
<bigcalm> davmor2: great
<popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/388913-asus-nexus-7-tablet-pc-90ok0mi1100550u
<popey> oooo
<gord> was looking at that earlier
<gord> very good price
 * dwatkins discovers his logins are slow due to bug 384017
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 384017 in bash-completion (Ubuntu) "Loading /etc/bash_completion is slow" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/384017
<gord> all i want a tablet to do is sit in a dock as a music player really
<davmor2> popey, gord: and yet it's $169 :( UK gets poo'd on again
<bigcalm> Import costs?
<popey> VAT
<popey> the US price doesn't include taxes
<popey> the UK one does
<gord> yeah, you buy it from google directly you are gonna pay a lot more than you think
<popey> 8GB is Â£159
<gord> it really does just look like a massive phone though
<dwatkins> I can't talk now, I'm in the library!
<davmor2> popey, bigcalm: and 20% on to the uk equiv of $169 is Â£129.2628
<The_Fred> Hey folks :)
<The_Fred> I've just published the Ubuntu speech input app onto google play, but im waiting for the desktop side app to clear the review process
<The_Fred> i dont suppose that anyone knows anything about the review process for software going into software center?
<AlanBell> I know it takes a while
<gord> davmor2: might!
<The_Fred> hmm
<davmor2> gord: What?
<bigcalm> The_Fred: davmor2 knows
<The_Fred> davmor2, how long does it take for review process for the software center?
<davmor2> The_Fred: is it in the ARB Queue?
<The_Fred> yea
<The_Fred> 1 day, 19 hrs ago now
<davmor2> The_Fred: As long as it takes I'm afraid,  They have regular meetings where they look at all the apps that have come in, sort out any issues and then get back to the devs, check the packaging and forward it to the extras ppa
<The_Fred> ok, thanks for that
<dwatkins> What did you create, The_Fred? I'm curious.
 * bigcalm ponders learning python
<davmor2> extras repo even
<The_Fred> dwatkins, speech input system for ubuntu
<AlanBell> davmor2: why are we slower than apple and android?
<davmor2> bigcalm: DO IT! DO IT NOW!!
<bigcalm> davmor2: what version though?
<dwatkins> The_Fred: neat, I look forward to using it
<bigcalm> AlanBell: man power?
<AlanBell> how is it supposed to scale up if it can't cope already?
<ormiret> bigcalm: I'd echo davmor2's sentiment. Though it might make you realise how awful PHP is :)
<The_Fred> dwatkins, thank you :)
<davmor2> AlanBell: because we don't have full automation, and they don't have to wait on a voluntary team to look at the packages, the Commercial apps have a dedicated team so they are released on a quicker basis
<bigcalm> ormiret: PHP is my job. But Python is possibly needed now
 * bigcalm grumbles at his boss
 * bigcalm takes a shower to ponder it some more
<davmor2> bigcalm: Learn Python 3 it will be the default in 12.10, and it handles unicode properly which you will undoubtedly need at some point
<popey> heh
<bigcalm> davmor2: I see
<gord> though you will still find python 2 on most production servers
<bigcalm> I have an o'rly book on 2.4/2.6 which says it will help with 3.x
<popey> my ex boss just emailed me a screenshot of putty running top
<gord> your python 3 code won't work on 2
<popey> showing me running top
<ali1234> python 2 handles unicode properly, jeez
<popey> from over 6 months ago
<ali1234> did someone ask a python unicode question?
<popey> runtime column has 4183:50
<The_Fred> davmor2, thats good news about py3... i had a hard time getting android app to play nice with python code on the desktop
<ali1234> cos if they did i missed it
<AlanBell> popey: xkcd.com/686/
<directhex> AlanBell, it's genuinely creepy
<bigcalm> Haha
<The_Fred> ive often wondered what happens when someone dies and they are in charge of a project
<The_Fred> like Linus Torvalds, when he passes on, who will take the helm?
<popey> he covered that in an interview
<popey> there's 4 or 5 people who could take over
<ali1234> greg kroah hartman and andrew morton will fight to the death in the thunderdome
<The_Fred> aha
<jacobw> bigcalm: i wouldn't be grumpy about that
<jacobw> sucession issues are interesting
 * jacobw is of the opinion that stallman has already been suceeded
<jacobw> the transistion from optparse/argparse during python2 is a gotcha
 * diplo is debugging python script as we speak :(
<diplo> bloomin eck bigcalm certainly had some rain didn't you
<diplo> :)
<diplo> Was bone dry here till 11/12pm
<bigcalm> diplo: just a little :) https://plus.google.com/113834766641843352499/posts
<diplo> yeah just watched it
<bigcalm> (for those that didn't ;))
<diplo> :D
 * diplo is half asleep
<dwatkins> bigcalm: may I add you on G+?
<diplo> He's boring, I wouldn't :)
<dwatkins> I just want all the people, of course
<davmor2> dwatkins: you can add who you want they just don't have to add you back :)
<gord> everyone should make sure to add me, i sometimes post up to *twice* in a month
<dwatkins> davmor2: this is a good point
<dwatkins> gord is no spammer.
<diplo> I think that's my limit as well gord
<diplo> :)
<diplo> As is davmor2
<bigcalm> dwatkins: by all means
<bigcalm> I tend to post to twitter. Which auto sends to Facebook. I forget to add things to G+
<dwatkins> Roger Wilco
<AlanBell> you can add me on G+ and I will send you invitations to BBQs
<dwatkins> I use twitter for links, but I have a separate account for that.
<bigcalm> Chucky Egg? Cool
<davmor2> diplo: I'll have you know I spam G+ nearly fortnightly sometimes
<dwatkins> :D
<bigcalm> AlanBell: wouldn't it be great if _everybody_ turned up?
<AlanBell> anyone not on G+ who wants to come -> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1824/detail/
<diplo> heh
<AlanBell> bigcalm: it would!
<bigcalm> Your poor chickens
<diplo> It's a day I don't have my boys so I should just put definite... just the decision on what to do, hotel/drive home etc
<diplo> What do you need us to bring AlanBell ?
<bigcalm> It's a 3+ hour drive for us. I want to attend and so does Hayley. But it's the accommodation that will bite
<AlanBell> meat/drink is always welcome, bring a tent and such if you want to do that
<bigcalm> Maybe we'll just do it
<AlanBell> bigcalm: tent!
<bigcalm> AlanBell: not for one night :P
<diplo> Just how big is that garden of yours ?
<diplo> :)
<The_Fred> given the recent weather i'd take a boat :)
 * jacobw is looking for information on how to set the smbios entries of libvirt to emulate virtualbox
<AlanBell> https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-D0ilB-BkB3Q/T8nlszUyuNI/AAAAAAAACog/Q23B1aDm_pc/s862/2012-06-02+11.00.53.jpg
<AlanBell> does that link work?
<The_Fred> AlanBell, cool, you have chickens :)
<AlanBell> I certainly do
<The_Fred> i wonder what game could be played with chickens on a trampoline?
<AlanBell> angry birds
<The_Fred> :)
<The_Fred> lol
<davmor2> AlanBell: I'm disappointed to see that your chickens are so unpatriotic I expect to see mini union flags on their hutch in the next photo ;)
<The_Fred> im suprised there's not another version of that game... like mad ducks, or peeved peacocks...
<AlanBell> davmor2: if it wasn't raining so much at the jubilee I was going to paint snowdrop with one wing red and one wing blue
<davmor2> The_Fred: Angry Aardvarks
<The_Fred> heh
<davmor2> AlanBell: Haha nice :)
<davmor2> AlanBell: but wouldn't that technically make it a french bird?
<AlanBell> yeah
<AlanBell> I can see her getting green and orange wings at some point
<AlanBell> czajkowski would approve
<bigcalm> :)
<davmor2> AlanBell: Don't you dare there are cruelty against animals rules in this country you know :D
<AlanBell> it would be harmless food colouring or something
<davmor2> AlanBell: I meant making Irish
<AlanBell> ah :)
<bigcalm> Tsk
<The_Fred> what is going on with the UK? There seems to be a growing trend of young kids/babies being hurt/killed recently.. :(
<davmor2> The_Fred: Darwinian Survival of the fittest ?
<The_Fred> maybe
 * davmor2 should pay more attention to the news and then might actually know but it is always bad news
<The_Fred> thats so true
 * The_Fred blocks the bbc
<czajkowski> Are you a technical writer? Want to work with amazing people and great team? Come join us! bit.ly/MFTzcU
<bubu> hi guys, wondering if anyone could help figure out what is going wrong from this small pac capture: www.pastebin.com/5NaPB2Ga
<bubu> 172.20.50.26 is my application server, which calls out to 173.0.82.89
<bubu> but the application is timing out and throwing an error
<bubu> anyone see anything wrong with that?
<bigcalm> maresnest?
<The_Fred> czajkowski, whats the salary of the tech writers post?
<czajkowski> The_Fred: I'm not sure
<czajkowski> are you a technical writer?
<The_Fred> no,im just curious is all
<The_Fred> bubu, i can only guess, is there a thread on one of the machines thats playing up?
<cocoa117> i have 2TB hard disk, and the whole disk is been used for lvm pv. However after create volume group, the volume group size is only 1.82TB, where did all the 20G go?
<directhex> cocoa117, this is an issue with units.
<The_Fred> +1..... 1000 GB is not 1024 GB... this is quite common and it sucks
<cocoa117> directhex, so how do i get them back? or it is there, just didn't show it with unit
<directhex> cocoa117, "1K" means 1024 bytes, because computers work in base-2 numbers. But the prefix "kilo" means "1000" so in some circles, "1K" means "1000" bytes
<directhex> cocoa117, so your 2T disk is 2000000000000 bytes
<cocoa117> directhex, so the display of "VG Size  1.82 TiB" is ...
<AlanBell> tibibytes
<diddledan> those are tebibytes
<AlanBell> which are bigger, so you have less of them
<directhex> cocoa117, the little "i" is used to disambiguate 1024 versus 1000 - it's saying the disk is 1.82 TiB, where 1 TiB is 1099511627776 bytes
<ali1234> so you guys explanation for this is that the HD size (as printed on the label) is 2 terabytes but the OS is displaying in tebibytes
<directhex> (not 1000000000000)
<directhex> ali1234, precisely
<AlanBell> this is all caused by marketing people being scared of number systems they don't understand
<cocoa117> ha, ok, it's the same size of hard disk, just showed in different unit of measure it
<directhex> cocoa117, right!
<The_Fred> and then factor in that some US firms use 100,000 as a million, but other countries use 1000,000 as a million
<czajkowski> Myrtti: ping
<Myrtti> czajkowski: pong
<diddledan> really?
<cocoa117> got it, cheers guys
<directhex> The_Fred, i think it's 1,000,000,000,000 versus 1,000,000,000 as a billion
<diddledan> I thought the issue was billions
<directhex> i.e. is a billion a thousand million or a million million
<diddledan> 1 thousand million vs 1 million million
<diddledan> british it the latter
<diddledan> american is the former
<diddledan> but since america is top dog we conform to their standard mostly these days
<shauno> this whole thing of mibi vs mega isn't fear, it's been a standard for 15 years now
<ali1234> it's a neologism
<diddledan> shauno, it was brought about by the marketers confusing the sizes of hard discs though
<directhex> shauno, right. but it's dishonest marketing to advertise storage in base-10 units, when every OS counts in base-2 units
<shauno> not every OS.  I believe windows is meant to be moving to metric too
<diddledan> typical
<diddledan> every os that matters ? :-p
<shauno> OSX is already there.  and linux is still suffering from groupthink over direction
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UnitsPolicy
<AlanBell> shauno: ubuntu has a policy on it
<ali1234> if you say "1 kilobyte" absolutely nobody at all would think you mean 1000 bytes
<directhex> shauno, windows says metric and uses base-2
<directhex> shauno, i.e. it says "GB" and shows GiB
<ali1234> (which is the only way which is actually correct)
<shauno> AlanBell: that policy looks sane.  and conflicts with most people's complaints that it's some harddrive conspiracy
<shauno> (when my understanding is that it actually came from telcoms, where linespeeds have always been metric)
<ali1234> nope
<AlanBell> well hard drives are the main area where it is technically possible to build things to a size that is a multiple of 1000
<AlanBell> dunno if you could build a 1000MB ram dimm and expect it to function
<shauno> right.  same with linespeeds.  they're essentially "how long is a peice of string", where you cut to any length you feel like.  ram's the main holdout, because they're built in arrays, so always square numbers
<ali1234> why not?
<ali1234> ram and hard drives are addresses in exactly the same way
<AlanBell> ali1234: not sure really, of course with virtual machines it is easy to prove that the operating system doesn't care much about the specific ram it has
<popey> line speeds are more about "what's technically possible with this conductor"
<shauno> in theory, but 10meg, 100meg, GigE etc doesn't just magically work out at a surpisingly round number
<AlanBell> yeah, that goes a bit backwards, they start with a speed and then certify the line length and connectors and such that will let it still work
<AlanBell> although 10/100/1000 are all 100m segment length which surprises me
<bigcalm> An easy number for people to think of
<bigcalm> Is it the weekend yet?
<ali1234> yes
<bigcalm> Lier
<bigcalm> :(
<davmor2> ali1234: liar liar pants on fire
<davmor2> bigcalm: test your for an update and then be hugely disappointed or gob smacked when there is or isn't it'll take your mind off the time left
<davmor2> on you xoom
<bigcalm> davmor2: I've checked 3 times so far today
<davmor2> bigcalm: an hour or minute?
<DJones> Does that mean you're due to get ICS today?
<bigcalm> :P
<bigcalm> No, but soon
<bigcalm> Apparently
<bigcalm> DJones: davmor2 has the details
<DJones> To be honest, I was expecting jelly bean to be released for mine before you got ics for the xoom
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> I wonder when the SGS3 will get JellyBean
<ali1234> i tried to convince Mer project they should name their releases after sea food dishes
<ali1234> so like "prawn cocktail" "fish fingers" etc
<ali1234> they wouldn't have it though :(
<bigcalm> The sods :)
<ali1234> they called it nemo instead
<bigcalm> Boring
<davmor2> DJones: http://www.facebook.com/motorolaeurope/posts/319548971473229 there is still time for you to get jellybean
<ali1234> yeah. that's what you get if you put it up for a vote tho
<jacobw> line speeds are always metric
<DJones> davmor2: bigcalm http://www.transformerforums.com/forum/transformer-prime-general-discussions/24430-too-soon-asking-about-jelly-bean-prime.html Just reading that, there's a comment bout the xoom getting Jelly Bean in mid July.... Are you going to hold your breath waiting, I think the writer has mixed up ICS & JB though
<davmor2> ali1234: yeah but nemo is a clown fish right so they got the sea bit right and it's food for other animals so that is kinda sea food :)
<bigcalm> Heh
<ali1234> it was named after captain nemo
<ali1234> not the fish
<bigcalm> I'm in no rush for anything - I've lost the ability to be super excited. I'm a little concerned about this now
<jacobw> ++verne
<ali1234> at least i think it was
<davmor2> DJones: no it might be that the states get it in mid july they have had ICS for nearly a year iirc
 * jacobw goes home
<AlanBell> bigcalm: you can get excited about the BBQ
<bigcalm> But that might not happen for us, I need to consider money
<bigcalm> We're going to the RAT and oggcamp. And we're saving for next year's wedding and a future mortgage
<davmor2> bigcalm: we can try and kill two birds with one stone if you like?  I'll strap a big rocket firework to your back and point you in the direction of the BBQ, we can then see if it excites you and will cost you nothing to get there if you do :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: I think you'd get more out of it than I would
<christel> seriously
<christel> you're prioritising a wedding over AlanBell's BBQ?
<davmor2> bigcalm: you know sometimes I think you must have a hard time living up to your nickname
<christel> bigcalm--
<bigcalm> christel: :(
<christel> (come to the bbq)
<christel> (postpone the wedding)
<christel> (also, invite me to wedding, i like weddings)
<bigcalm> christel: we both want to come, I'll see what I can do
<bigcalm> Hehe
<christel> yes! do it
<christel> infact, just stay down here after RAT
 * christel nods
<bigcalm> Erm, for how long?
<christel> it's.. 2 weekS? :D
<bigcalm> Hehe
<christel> you can er, holiday in surrey -- we have uhm.. trees?
<AlanBell> in a tent in my garden!
<bigcalm> Yay trees
<bigcalm> Haha
<bigcalm> Ahem, sorry AlanBell :)
<davmor2> AlanBell: I'm sure there is room in the coop there are only two of them :D
<christel> davmor2: hahaha
<bigcalm> Oh dear
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: poke
<davmor2> bigcalm: so this staged rollout of ICS seems to be germany that's obviously europe now right :D
<dogmatic69> o/
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: cakephp. How do you delete a record from a table by id?
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: I'm in a controller and want to delete a record from a given model
<bigcalm> Would be nice to do this without writing SQL
<dogmatic69> $this->ModelName->delete(id)
<bigcalm> That simple? Ta
<dogmatic69> yep
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: set up cake console and use bake, it will show you some basics
<dogmatic69> https://github.com/infinitas/infinitas/blob/dev/Core/Libs/Controller/Component/MassActionComponent.php#L235
<dogmatic69> you can use deleteAll(array(1,2,3)) too
<bigcalm> It's a 1.1 project :D
<dogmatic69> lol
<dogmatic69> then I cant help much, only started on 1.2 which was almost a rewrite of 1.1
<bigcalm> Yep
<bigcalm> But some function names might be similar
<dogmatic69> ye
<dogmatic69> delete() should be the same
<bigcalm> Hope so. Doing battle with this project is slow
<dogmatic69> is it big?
<bigcalm> Yep
<bigcalm> There's talk of porting the app to the latest version of cakephp. But that won't be for a long time
<dogmatic69> 2.2 is awesome
<bigcalm> More features to develop and bugs to fix
<dogmatic69> I would guess it to be 3 or 4 times faster than 1.1
<bigcalm> delete() works, ta
<Q__> hello
<popey> anyone done a reinstall on a system that has encrypted home?
<czajkowski> popey: nope but support might have done one for someone
<czajkowski> they may know
<popey> i want to revert back to precise
<czajkowski> see pm
<AlanBell> popey: any reason for going back?
<BigRedS> I was pondering upgrading my desktop to Q the other day
<BigRedS> I think it's either that or something crazy like slackware
<AlanBell> Q seems fine to me, just like P really
 * AlanBell goes to build a new bike
<AlanBell> my old one exploded on the way home :(
<jacobw> why the dichotomy?
<BigRedS> Motorbike?
<AlanBell> pedal bike, the deralleur thing went into the spokes and ripped apart the back end
<BigRedS> I'm getting a little bored with everything Just Working. If Q's as stable as P I might have to go with something daft
<AlanBell> would cost more in parts than a new Â£80 bike from halfords so I got a new one
<BigRedS> ah, if it's modern it might just be a mech hanger, mech and bit of a wheel trueing you need
<BigRedS> oh
<BigRedS> yeah, if it's an Â£80 bike it won't be just that
<AlanBell> the new one has suspension and everything
<BigRedS> I guess it's getting harder to get Â£80 ones without now
<diplo> qevening all
<diplo> Evening*
<brobostigon> whats the best way to store fresh herbs?
<ali1234> inside your stomach
<brobostigon> haha
<brobostigon> i bought too much coriander,
<brobostigon> fresh.
<shauno> cold/dark/dry is a sensible default.  otherwise, "on the plant"
<brobostigon> fridge?
<ali1234> meh
<ali1234> have you chopped it up?
<popey> AlanBell, i want my main machine stable on LTS
<brobostigon> no
<ali1234> is it one of those ones where it comes in a little port of soil?
<ali1234> or is it just stalks?
<brobostigon> ali1234: mo.
<ali1234> mo?
<brobostigon> ali1234: no, then yes.
<ali1234> i'd say fridge then, given how hot and humid it currently is
<ali1234> store it like you would store salad
<brobostigon> ok.
<popey> it says on it how to store it
<popey> most say "DO NOT PUT IN FRIDGE"
<popey> or "MUST PUT IN FRIDGE"
<popey> or similar
<ali1234> yeah but labelling is just LIES
<popey> [FACT]
<brobostigon> popey: i bought raw, no usch instruction, just bunch of coriander.
<ali1234> if it was winter i'd say leave it out but in this heat it is gonna wilt in a few hours
<brobostigon> ok.
<brobostigon> done.
<ali1234> fridge is probably too cold for it but what can you do
<popey> put it in the bottom or drawer
<popey> not near the back
<popey> it will get freezer burn
<brobostigon> bottom loads of space.
<popey> thats what..
 * popey goes to make food
<jacobw> ketchup sandwich is suprisngly tasty
<The_Fred> yea,i had a current sarnie the other day
<The_Fred> just had a sudden hankering
<ali1234> toast sandwich. yeah
<The_Fred> brobostigon, hello :)
<brobostigon> hello The_Fred :0
<brobostigon> hello The_Fred :)
<brobostigon> wish you were here, :'(
<MartijnVdS> GAAH
<The_Fred> hope your keeping dry
<MartijnVdS> Kernel security bug = 600 emails on -security-announce
<ali1234> what's the bug?
<ali1234> is that why we got a kernel update today?
<The_Fred> brobostigon, wish i was there.... you having a party?
<brobostigon> The_Fred: no, on my own.
<The_Fred> ah, friday nite blues eh?
<brobostigon> The_Fred: whjy would i be irc if i was having a party, illogical.
<The_Fred> its been known to happen :)
<ali1234> it could be a geek party
<The_Fred> thats the one!
<brobostigon> i was refferring to the pink floyd song.
<ali1234> 10 people in same room, in silence, talking or irc
<The_Fred> lol
<ali1234> you think i am joking
<Laney> we had a DMB meeting like that once at UDS
<Laney> it was unnerving
<The_Fred> more like folk getting drunk after a good game of alien arena, and then spending time on the arena IRC
<jacobw> DMB?
<Laney> i wonder if there's a factoid
<Laney> !dmb
<lubotu3> The Developer Membership Board handles applications for new developer privileges. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/ApplicationProcess for more details. For DMB attention, try !dmb-ping.
<Laney> AWESOME BOT.
<The_Fred> !meaningoflife
<lubotu3> 42.
<The_Fred> heh
<jacobw> it'd be cool if the bot did some self motivated learning when praised
<jacobw> but only when praised
<The_Fred> yea, reenforced learning
<ali1234> nah, it wouldn't work. AI is still all tricks.
 * The_Fred wants tony starks J.A.R.V.I.S
<jacobw> the idea of bot being motivated by praise tickles me
<The_Fred> its the sarcasm filter that would be problematic
<The_Fred> python would be the tool of choice
<jacobw> languages are complicated
<The_Fred> *from soul import frequency_mystery_system
<jacobw> i started answering questions about making a talking bot on #python from CS student
<The_Fred> how did it pan out?
<jacobw> i don't have any credentials in CS, some students are just lazy
<The_Fred> oh, thats so true
<jacobw> how can someone not understand markov chains :|
<ali1234> everyone has to start somewhere
<The_Fred> when i was at uni i had 3 people on the course offer to pay me for doing their assignment!
<The_Fred> jacobw, refresh my memory: what are markov chains?
 * The_Fred fires up google search
<jacobw> a stateless finite state machine
<jacobw> actually that's the most stupid thing i've ever said
<The_Fred> its ok, i got it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markov_chain
<jacobw> it's a finite state machine where the next state is independent of previous states
<The_Fred> i think it can be used in a machine learning program, but it cant recall how it learned...
<MartijnVdS> magics
<jacobw> so its very computable because the transformations can be reduced without keeping track of previous states
<The_Fred> hmm, this looks handy for my next bout of hardware hacking: http://hackaday.com/2012/06/29/using-your-bench-tools-to-test-a-new-display/
 * popey has food!
<MartijnVdS> popey: delicious foodses?
<jacobw> useful for constructing sentences, if current word is a verb next word can be a pronoun or an object select and repeat
<popey> ya
 * MartijnVdS saw a track inspection train today
 * jacobw is hungry because he's too shy to go to nearby resturant :|
<MartijnVdS> <-- exciting life
<jacobw> track inspection?
<The_Fred> jacobw, i was developing a system to automate surveys... i had multiple virtual profiles... it didnt go well
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: yeah they make videos of the track, and compare/analyse to determine wear
<jacobw> ah, interesting :)
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: and which places need maintenance most
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: check my G+ for a pic :)
 * jacobw checks
<The_Fred> is there a link?
<The_Fred> please
<MartijnVdS> 21:20 < jacobw> it's a finite state machine where the next state is independent  of previous states
<MartijnVdS> uhr
<MartijnVdS> https://plus.google.com/100189567362844794281/posts/JJE8DCHYXZ4
<MartijnVdS> The_Fred: ^
<The_Fred> thanks
<jacobw> ooh shiny
<The_Fred> thats cool
<MartijnVdS> it was going back and forth over those tracks while I waited for my train to arrive
<MartijnVdS> (every bit once)
<brobostigon> i am trying to describe what a lap steel guitar, is to someone, and i htink i am failing, it should be simple.
<ali1234> what
<ali1234> tell them to look on wikipedia?
<brobostigon> ali1234: i think i will do.
<The_Fred> brobostigon, its a guitar that lays across the lap and is played with a metal bar
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: Lap.. like what a dog does..
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: but first.. steal a guitar
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: haha, but yes, that would work. :)
<brobostigon> The_Fred: exactly, yes.
<The_Fred> i know a chap who plays one... he's amasing - can pick up any instrucment and just play it
<brobostigon> The_Fred: i saw one in town this afternoon, for sale,
<ali1234> super furry animals' phantom power album has a lot of steel guitar on it
<MartijnVdS> what? a chap who can play any instrument? :P
<brobostigon> The_Fred: i play percussion, not strings.
<The_Fred> ah i see
<The_Fred> whole diffent game
<brobostigon> agreed.
<ali1234> eg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvF7T1volgA
<The_Fred> right folks im off - my lad is here and wants us to chill and watch a film
<brobostigon> The_Fred: but it has always stuck in my head, since i first heard pink floyd as a 5 year old.
<The_Fred> brobostigon, pink floyd are amasing
 * MartijnVdS watches "Synth Britannia"
<ali1234> that song also contains the line "i program robots to make them lie" which is awesome
<brobostigon> thqvery yes.
<MartijnVdS> (recorded)
<The_Fred> anyhow folk im outta here, catch you in the week, have fun, stay safe and all that:)
<brobostigon> bye The_Fred o/
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00n93c6
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: a bunch of The Who tonight on Beeb Four
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: cool, :)
<MartijnVdS> from 21:00 UK time
<MartijnVdS> almost 4 hours
<brobostigon> so in about 25 mins.
<MartijnVdS> yes
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: http://www.bbc.co.uk/tv/guide
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> thank you MartijnVdS
 * MartijnVdS has his record-from-satellite scripts ready :)
<brobostigon> :0
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> get_iplayer :)
<MartijnVdS> Sure, but this is more fun :)
<MartijnVdS> also, higher res!
<brobostigon> it can pick in HD.
<MartijnVdS> I've used a lot of bandwidth on my VPS this month
<MartijnVdS> so I'll stick to timeout + dd + projectx + handbrake :)
<ali1234> iplayer HD isn't real HD
<MartijnVdS> it's 720
<MartijnVdS> which looks just as good as the 1080i on satellite
<ali1234> that's strike 1
<MartijnVdS> (note the 'i'nterlaceing)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i barely hit 10% of my vps's last month.
<ali1234> uk digital terrestrial is all 1080p afaik
<ali1234> dunno what they do on satellite
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: I do know what they do on sat, and it's interlaced ;0
<MartijnVdS> ;)
<brobostigon> actually, no, thats wrong, it comes to over 1%.
<ali1234> 1080p is all 30fps though, so it looks really flickery
<ali1234> kind of annoying if you don't have a fancy TV that does frame morphing
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: apparently it's both i and p on terrestrial.. depending on what they're broadcasting
<ali1234> i can believe that
<ali1234> i bet sports are all i
<ali1234> but i never watch those
<brobostigon> 0.29gb from 200gb.
<MartijnVdS> I have no idea where I can see how much I used this month
<brobostigon> was last month.
<popey> is the bbc stuff filmed in 1080p?
<popey> and downscaled for transmission?
<ali1234> must be
<MartijnVdS> popey: It seems to depend
<ali1234> although it depends what you mean by 1080p
<popey> i guess if doctor who on blueray is 1080p..
<brobostigon> 2.26 of 200.00 GB on my other.
<MartijnVdS> popey: but Torchwood S1 is 1080i
<popey> so, telly question
<popey> someone has offered me a telly for 250 quid
<ali1234> popey: blu-rays do not support 1080p60
<popey> 42LH3000 LG
<popey> worth 250?
<ali1234> at least the spec doesn't
<AlanBell> you can get a lot of new telly for Â£250
<MartijnVdS> popey: lowest "new" price was â¬455 on april
<popey> a decent (i.e. not matsui) one?
<brobostigon> agreed.
<MartijnVdS> in april*
<ali1234> get one of those 100Hz with frame morphing
<ali1234> they are amazing
<AlanBell> popey: the new model LG is Â£329
<AlanBell> http://www.amazon.co.uk/LG-42CS460-42-inch-Widescreen-Freeview/dp/B007IYVUBY/ref=dp_ob_title_ce
 * brobostigon winders how much a lap steel costs.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Recording-King-RG-Lap-Steel/dp/B001WAKUEI
<AlanBell> popey: and I am sure the Ubuntu TV will be much better value and in the shops real soon now ;)
<ali1234> couple of hundred for a good one i'd guess
<brobostigon> holy crap.
<brobostigon> sorry
<ali1234> what?
<ali1234> decent quality instruments are expensive :)
<MartijnVdS> poo with holes in it.
<brobostigon> ali1234: agreed. yes.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: also, quadraphenia, on after.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: yes
<brobostigon> quadrophnia*
<MartijnVdS> 4 hours of Who (no not THAT who)
<brobostigon> :_)
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: you know animal, from the muppets.
<MartijnVdS> of course
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i was compared to him, the other day.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: Did someone shout "You muppet!" ? :P
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: no.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: but the hair, and playing the drums, and being wild sometimes.
<MartijnVdS> is your hair red as well? :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: it is a light browsny colour,
 * MartijnVdS switches to Beeb 4
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i thin the person was referring more to the wild hair, that the colour,
<brobostigon> berr topup.
<brobostigon> beer*
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: http://www.zazzle.nl/niet_uw_ochtendkoffie_nog_hebben_gehad_mok-168488566979578302
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: haha, :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: and ofcourse monster, apparently being inspired by keith moon.
<brobostigon> animal*
<brobostigon> one amazing drummer there.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I have an "Animal" puppet here somewhere
<DJones> ok, I'm suitably impressed, new all-in-one printer works perfectly by wireless, even wireless scanning
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: hehe :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: my mum sugegsted, a drum bagm with such a picture imprinted.
 * popey watches "The Widow and the Wardrobe"
<MartijnVdS> popey: don't cry!
<popey> hah
<popey> too late
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Stuart Langridge] Put the chocolate on the moose - http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2012/06/29/put-the-chocolate-on-the-moose
<MartijnVdS> aquarius++
<MartijnVdS> nice script :)
<directhex> how can i record an RDP session?
<MartijnVdS> directhex: tcpdump?
<MartijnVdS> directhex: that or popey knows
<popey> kazam
<MartijnVdS> see, popey knows all :)
<popey> :)
<brobostigon> somehow, keith moon seems familier, about also so distent. as in a different way, david gilmour does with shine on, about sud barrett.
<directhex> popey, kazam doesn't seem to record from rdp, it just records the screen
<brobostigon> some one qho shined, but became a minor of what he was.
<brobostigon> who*
<popey> wat
<popey> directhex, correct
<brobostigon> saying that, it reminds me, of myself.
<popey> directhex, according to google, seems like something a lot of people want to do, maybe someone should write an app to do that
<ali1234> how would you play it back?
<ali1234> you would have to make it into a video anyway
<ali1234> or write a special program
<ali1234> might as well just use a screen recorder
<popey> depends how you write the frames out to disk
<ali1234> i had an idea actually to make a sockets wrapper that does packet replaying
<popey> but yeah, send each full frame through ffmpeg/libav/whatever
<Darael> Depends what you're after, no?  If you want to do something repeatedly, some kind of keyboard-and-mouse macro recording software, maybe?
<popey> a guy I know used to record x sessions on the network
<popey> and replay them
<ali1234> cos i had no end of problems trying to archive webpages by recording the transactions
<ali1234> like, webpage complete?
<ali1234> there's no such thing if it has flash or ajax
<ali1234> but if i record every connection the browser makes and everything sent in both directions
<ali1234> then i can replay it back into the browser
<ali1234> assuming no user interaction of course
<ali1234> would also need to disable things like certificate expiry
 * Laney meows
<Laney> I need to move out into my own place, mainly so that I can acquire cats. Cats are good.
<brobostigon> animal fur sets of allergies.
<popey> https://twitter.com/popey/status/216579058023153665/photo/1/large
<brobostigon> off*
<popey> RAWR!
<popey> nah, allerpet fixes that brobostigon
<popey> http://www.amazon.com/Allerpet-Grooming-Emollient-Cats-12/dp/B000S0L0M4
<brobostigon> popey: umm?
<Laney> natural selection
<brobostigon> oh.
<Laney> you no love my cat, you no love me
<ali1234> you could also shave the cats
<ali1234> http://www.wikihow.com/Shave-a-Cat
<Laney> never.
<directhex> popey, kazam is Good Enough, if i put the VM window in the right place
<brobostigon> popey: interesting idea, but it wont solve the problem, id there is any contact,
<brobostigon> if*
<popey> brobostigon, my wife was allergic. we used it, now she isnt
<popey> not just an idea :)
<Laney> do you really have to do it 2-3 times a week?
<brobostigon> popey: he allergy probably wont change, unless her immune system changes, which is the basis of allergies.
<Laney> I can't imagine our cats at home tolerating that ...
<brobostigon> her*
<directhex> avoid cats, get hypoallergenic pets
<directhex> like chinchillas
<ali1234> or snakes
<Laney> it's cat or house pig
<brobostigon> best, none at all.
<Laney> brobostigon meldrew
<brobostigon> thanks Laney
<Laney> :P
<ali1234> or how about some fish?
<brobostigon> nope, also allergic to.
<Laney> they have to be huggable
<Laney> maybe a house rabbit would be acceptable
<Laney> but you can't litter tray train them, apparently
<popey> brobostigon, well, I'm just speaking from experience of someone who was allergic, and now shows no symptoms and has had two cats for 10+ years
<popey> .. and we used allerpet c when we first got the cats
<brobostigon> popey: ok,i understand, yes. but i speak, from what i know of the science of allergies and eczema.
<brobostigon> and alletgies, are generallt considered, a malfunction in the immune-system.
<popey> ok, maybe I misworded it
<popey> but the fact is she shows no more cat allergy symptoms
<popey> unless she picks a cat up and basically rubs it in her eyes
<brobostigon> thats good and impressive.
<popey> which is a) stupid, and b) surprisingly common
<directhex> floooooooof
<brobostigon> agreed.
<brobostigon> but that pretty much applies to any contact, those parameters.
<brobostigon> ie, touch,
<popey> I also have a friend who was allergic to alcohol.. poor chap
<popey> he had to avoid most body care products as well as imbibing booze
<popey> so puff was his drug of choice
<popey> then one day I bumped into him at a party and he was drinking beer..
<popey> I said "hey, surely you're going to get super ill with that!?"
<popey> "no", he said. "I got over it"
<popey> When I inquired further. he'd got so pissed off with it that he decided to try to get over it by consuming vast amounts of it
<popey> spent an entire weekend drinking, throwing up, drinking, throwing up..
<popey> (a typical night in for daviey)
<popey> and after that.. his tolerance for alcohol was much higher..
<ali1234> if you can do that without dying it's not a real allergy
<popey> well indeed
<ali1234> just sayin'
<popey> it was fun tho :)
<brobostigon> so he was alllergic to ethanol ?
<popey> I didn't investigate this much further
<popey> I only ever bumped into him at parties
<brobostigon> ok.
<popey> where one or both of us was drunk or stoned
<popey> so anyway.. cats!
<brobostigon> ah.
<brobostigon> i am decidedly too tired, to get into a scientific discussion about biology and chemistry.
<Laney> perusing http://www.nottingham.cats.org.uk/nottingham/adopt-a-cat-page
<ali1234> TOO LATE
<ali1234> those cats all look like mental house destroyers
<popey> scooby looks fun
<brobostigon> so does kylie.
<popey> oh, i thought we were looking at cats?
<Laney> scooby definitely knows how to have a good time
 * Laney managed to get onto Page 3 of 2
<Laney> now 4. this site be bugged
<brobostigon> made me laugh, a kitty name sugesstion in a tweet, my bojangles. :)
<brobostigon> mr*
<Laney> right, forget cats. weird psychological dramas it is: http://io9.com/5922490/a-bizarre-student-film-about-the-hidden-number-that-exists-between-3-and-4
<directhex> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFs319ECDEM&feature=youtu.be
<ali1234> is it 3.5?
<Laney> 3.5, that famous integer
<popey> hahah
<popey> i wish we had a quotebot
<popey> bleem?
<popey> wasnt that an emulator?
<ali1234> yes
<directhex> bleem was a paid psx emulator, iirc?
<popey> Laney, thanks, enjoyed that
<Laney> yeah, it's quite well done
<brobostigon> sleep well, buys and gals.
<Azelphur> who says you need windows to get the most out of fancy gaming hardware, https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2012/June/2012-06-29-235844_800x585_scrot.png :D
<directhex> sweet!
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alistair McKinlay] The ethical problem with technology prices - http://www.10people.co.uk/index.php/2012/06/the-ethical-problem-with-technology-prices/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jo Shields] How to build a bungalow& begin with the chimney - http://apebox.org/wordpress/rants/442/
<Azelphur> gnome15 ftw \o/
#ubuntu-uk 2012-06-30
<jacobw> bad webpigeon
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Gnome 15?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: I thought it was only up to 3.x
<MartijnVdS> Or are they using Chrome-style versions now
<jacobw> if DEVELOPER_BORED { version++; }
<jacobw> the german keyboard layout is a little unfriendly
<jacobw> why is the / shift+7 and @ alt-gr+q ?!
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: You can just set the layout to something you like more :)
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: the pictures on the keys don't matter
<jacobw> i'm making an effort to learn the german keyboard layout
<MartijnVdS> DAS DEUTSCHE LAYOUT
<jacobw> my keyboard is has a UK layout, i've purposefully changed it
<jacobw> here's another thing, { is alt-gr+7 and } is alt-gr+0
<dwatkins> The German kezboard lazout is easz to learn...
<jacobw> not even consequetive keys!
<jacobw> at least the â¬ is alt-gr+e which actually makes sense
<MartijnVdS> also AltGr+5 I think?
<jacobw> Â½
<jacobw> alt-gr+4 on gb
 * MartijnVdS uses US-Intl-Nodeadkeys
<MartijnVdS> Most keyboards in NL have US layout instead of NL layout
<jacobw> being in vim and not being able to find ':' is the most distressing ting
<MartijnVdS> at least ESC is in the same palce
<jacobw> when i tried to learn dvorak, the vim problem sapped my motivation
<czajkowski> https://tbe.taleo.net/NA3/ats/careers/requisition.jsp?org=CANONICAL&cws=1&rid=502  if anyone is job hunting we have 4 soft eng roles open on my team
<dwatkins> We have 4 support roles if anyone in Edinburgh is looking for a technical role.
<MooDoo> hello all
<jacobw> hey MonsterKiller
<jacobw> MooDoo even
<MooDoo> lol
<AlanBell> morning all
<AlanBell> Wolverhampton on the telly
<popey> morning
<czajkowski> herro
<MooDoo> AlanBell: olympic flame?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MooDoo> brobostigon: morning
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> another fab day of stuff in nottingham and i'm at work lol
<brobostigon> :(
<AlanBell> MooDoo: yeah Blue Peter live event and flame
<jacobw> ah, flame
<MooDoo> AlanBell: yeah saw it yesterday in Bakewell
 * brobostigon has his own flame, he waves his lighter in the air.
<MooDoo> what's everyone doing this weekend?  Anything exiting?
<brobostigon> no plan as of yet.
<MartijnVdS> Replacing a Win 98 machine for moneys :)
<MartijnVdS> We've guesstimated (based on the CPU) that the machine is really 14 years old
<popey> quiet day today
<Seeker`> ssssshhhhhhhhhh
<Seeker`> how are you?
<popey> fine thanks :)
<MooDoo> it's just started raining up here :S
<popey> bigcalm, happy birthday ! :D
<mattt> HAAAAAAI
<christel> happy bigcalm day!
<Joeboy> Hi. Anybody here able to help me with a packaging proglem? Trying to rebuild gdb-msp430 and (I think) it's failing at patching the source. See
<Joeboy> http://pastebin.com/c6FjSFrm
<ali1234> why you use debuild?
<Joeboy> Is that not right?
<ali1234> use fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage
<ali1234> this never failed for me
<Joeboy> Because I don't really know what I'm doing :-)
<ali1234> not the first time anyway
<ali1234> sometimes packages are broken and will only build once, then you have to delete the source to build it again
<Joeboy> Yeah, just doing that
<ali1234> if you find a package like that do report it as a bug
<ali1234> it probably won't get fixed, but it is still a bug
<Joeboy> I'm  bit unconfident about reporting build bugs as I suspect they'll mostly be pebcak errors, until I know what I'm doing a bit better
<Joeboy> ali1234: That gives me exactly the same error as in the paste ^
<ali1234> ok, is it the second build?
<Joeboy> Well, not exaclty, but very similar
<ali1234> dpkg-buildpackage: warning: Build dependencies/conflicts unsatisfied; aborting.
<Joeboy> aha
<ali1234> dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: gdb-source (>= 7.2)
<Joeboy> sorry, I suck
<ali1234> sudo apt-get build-dep
<ali1234> oh wait you did that
<Joeboy> Yeah, I did
<Joeboy> Just did it again, gratuitously, and unsurprisingly it didn't help
<ali1234> ok lemme try to build this
<Joeboy> Thanks
<Joeboy> Just to warn you... if I manage to build it at all I'm going to be trying to patch it next
<directhex> ali1234 is correct, the "clean" rule should always return a source tree to pristine state
<directhex> often won't but should
<Joeboy> For the moment I'm just going to go with rm -rf
<Joeboy> cos I trust it
<Joeboy> I'm running 12.04, btw
<ali1234> ok it failed here
<Joeboy> w00t
<ali1234> same error, patches fail to apply
<Joeboy> Is that a but I could legitimately report then?
<ali1234> yes
<Joeboy> s/but/bug/
<Joeboy> Cool
<Joeboy> Thanks
<Joeboy> Glad it's not just me :-)
<ali1234> msp430 is the TI low power chip, right?
<Joeboy> Yeah
<Joeboy> There's a popular dev board for it (launchpad)
<Joeboy> Kinda like an even lower end arduino
<ali1234> bug is already reported
<ali1234> bug 935098
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 935098 in gdb-msp430 (Ubuntu Precise) "gdb-msp430 version 7.2~mspgcc-7.2-20110612-1ubuntu1 FTBFS on i386 in precise" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/935098
<Joeboy> Thanks
<ali1234> FTBFS = fail to build from source
<ali1234> there's an upstream fix
<Joeboy> Does "fix releaased" mean there's a package, or just a commit on github somewhere?
<ali1234> in this case it means it's fixed in debian
<Joeboy> Cool
<Joeboy> Hi Hornet
<ali1234> that likely means it will be fixed in quantal when the newer packages are imported
<Joeboy> Cool. So, if I wanted to get this working nowish... what would you do if you were me?
<ali1234> you need to regenerate those patches
<ali1234> actually there is only 1 patch
<Joeboy> Thanks for all your help ali1234
<ali1234> ok
<ali1234> this should fix it
<ali1234> edit gdb/sim/configure
<ali1234> search for "microblaze"
<Joeboy> ...add msp430 ?
<ali1234> no
<Joeboy> k
<ali1234> delete the line that says r178
<Joeboy> k
<ali1234> the patch will add msp430 but the patch expects that r178 line to not be there
<ali1234> so it fails
<ali1234> you could also do the reverse and add r178 to the patch but editing patches is harder
<Joeboy> It still fails after doing that
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> is it unpacking something?
<ali1234> it must be runing autotools to generate configure before patching
<Joeboy> There's a tar xjf /usr/src/gdb*.tar.bz2 in the output
<ali1234> so there is
<ali1234> ok, let's fix the patch, that can't fail
<Laney> ag
<Laney> my glorious sunny day turned rainy
<Joeboy> Laney: We got tempestuous rain here a while ago, but only for about 10 minutes
<ali1234> so open msp430-gdb-7.2-20110103.patch and find the line from configure, with microblaze
<Joeboy> I'm there
<Laney> Joeboy: i'm holed up in a coffee shop in shorts + tshirt
<Laney> with 5 miles to bike home
<Laney> better stop!
<ali1234> after "+msp430" and a line with " r178" (note leading space)
<ali1234> now dpkg-source fails because we edited that patch
<ali1234> commit that with dpkg-source --commit
<ali1234> and it still fails
<Joeboy> ali1234: This is the most awesome free tech support ever
<ali1234> unbelievable it still fails
<ali1234> i recommend you just build this stuff manually and do not use the packaging
<Joeboy> :-)
<ali1234> this whole "untar gdb source from /usr/src and then patch it using one giant patch"
<Joeboy> Thanks again for your efforts
<ali1234> it's going to make it unworkable if you try to add more changes
<ali1234> you should untar gdb somewhere, initialize it as a git repo, apply the linaro msp430 patch, fix the rejects by hand (easy), and then make whatever changes you need and install it to /usr/local
<Joeboy> Ok, I just installed the debian package. No obvious ill-effects so far.
<ali1234> yeah... you won't be able to patch it though :)
<ali1234> not easily anyway
<Joeboy> It doesn't seem to have the bug the ubuntu package did though
<Joeboy> so it's all good :-)
<ggg4444> can someone help me with my void 11 problem?
<gord> i think webpigeon* may be having troubles ;)
<brobostigon> agreed.
<Prisoftware> hello
 * penguin42 wonders is anything won't survive tonights leapsecond
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: "gnome15" rather than gnome version 15
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: http://gnome15.org
<ball> Is it difficult to have an Ubuntu (in my case Xubuntu) host join a Windows Workgroup?   I want to share my printer.
<directhex> ball: workgroup? no.
<ball> directhex: What's the secret incantation? ;-)
<directhex> ball: install samba, and i think you can set the workgroup name via  agui (if not it's a 1-line setting in smb.conf)
<ball> directhex: Thanks, I have a Samba book at home so I'll grep that when I get home.
#ubuntu-uk 2012-07-01
<penguin42> hmph, didn't get a 60
<powderfinger> join #lua
<popey> morning
<czajkowski> morning
<christel> morning lovelies
<czajkowski> christel: ello
<MooDoo> morning all
<Myrtti> meh, I wish Launchpad would support Android translations
<Myrtti> or Rosetta rather
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> brobostigon: how are you?
<brobostigon> MooDoo: could be better, this heat is playing with my eczema. and you?
<MooDoo> i'm at work, so in the air con, thanksfully it's quiet.
<brobostigon> thats good, some can be very loud.
<MooDoo> yeah it's fine though, people appear to be staying away from their computers :)
<brobostigon> ok.
<AlanBell> morning all
<MooDoo> hi alan
<christel> good mooorning
<popey> quiet today
<MooDoo> popey: has been quiet over the weekend
<MooDoo> morning christel
<christel> hello MooDoo :)
 * gord wishes everyone a merry mailmans day
<dogmatic69> anyone running tor?
<brobostigon> is there an equivilant to debians apt-listbugs , for lucid server ?
<dogmatic69> anyone reading about this? http://www.channel4.com/news/black-boxes-to-monitor-all-internet-and-phone-data
<dogmatic69> one week they pass laws on using cookies, the next reading your emails...
<penguin42> dogmatic69: I can't see how they would monitor gmail/facebook unless they started doing ssl falsification and that would be seriously offensive
<MartijnVdS> modern browsers even detect that
<MartijnVdS> if you've visited the site before and it gets a new cert
<MartijnVdS> it'll warn
<TheGurkha> Hi Folks, first timer, just lurking to get the hang of things..
<dogmatic69> penguin42: mitm on a massive scale
<popey> hello TheGurkha
<TheGurkha> cheers Popey
<popey> there's a new feature in openssl iirc which allows this and makes it transparent MartijnVdS
<dogmatic69> sup TheGurkha
<ali1234> what is "this"
<dogmatic69> Not that I am a security expert, but am thinking tor + vpn should safegaurd things
<TheGurkha> Hi dogmatic69
<ali1234> no, the only thing that will make you safe is face to face key swapping with trusted friends
<MartijnVdS> and even some of those can be bought.
<dogmatic69> :(
<dogmatic69> what about this tor thing? from what I read it can send masses of rubbish when the connection is idle?
<dogmatic69> If a lot of people done that I would break what ever they tried to implement
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funkspiel
<bigcalm_laptop> Ello peeps :)
<dogmatic69> sup bigcalm_laptop
<popey> bigcalm, happy belated birthday
<dogmatic69> ali1234: how about more votes for The Pirate Party?
<bigcalm_laptop> popey: thank you :) I saw the irssi emails yesterday but was having a day off from computers ;)
<popey> heh
<popey> lies
<bigcalm_laptop> Well...
<popey> you saw the emails on what?
<bigcalm_laptop> My phone
<bigcalm_laptop> Whilst I was in the middle of a wood
<bigcalm_laptop> On a ramble with my parents
<MartijnVdS> middle of a wood ircing++
 * MartijnVdS is doing it as well
<penguin42> just the rustle of the leaves, the tweeting of birds and the beep of his IRC
<brobostigon> and rain, as we have here.
<bigcalm_laptop> Proof: https://plus.google.com/113834766641843352499/posts/ipkMTcMf2vE
<penguin42> hmm pretty
<jesper> Hey. I was wondering if someone could help me out. I'm trying to install Ubuntu 12.04 Desktop using a USB stick, but the install fails with a sequence of error messages, the last one being "ata 7: hard resetting link". I suspect it's something to do with my SSD. I don't have an HDD.
<popey> interesting
<popey> I have SSDs in all my 12.04 machines
<popey> jesper, does your ubuntu machine dual boot with windows or is it clean?
<jesper> I have windows 7 on it at the moment, i'd like to have a dual boot system. I haven't created the partition for Ubuntu yet though.
<popey> did the computer come with windows 7?
<popey> if so, probably there's 4 primary partitions, which is the maximum number of primary partitions you can have on one disk
<jesper> it came with a trial version of windows 7 premium, i've since installed the licensed version.
<popey> what are you booted to now?
<jesper> windows 7
<popey> open disk administrator.. are there 4 partitions on disk 0?
<jesper> no, just checked it - there are two
<jesper> "System Reserved" and (C:)
<popey> interesting
<popey> the hard resetting link usually indicates disk or cable failure I think
<jesper> right, the thing that confuses me though is that windows says the ssd is fine, and it installed without any problems
<popey> hang on ata7?
<popey> how many disks does this machine have?
<jesper> just a single ssd
<jesper> yeah, it hangs after the error message above
<jesper> it's only the last of a series of messages though. the whole series can be seem in comment #2 at https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/200217
<jesper> *seen
<andylockran> hey guys
<andylockran> I need to find a place to host an old joomla 1.0 site whilst I finish off a new site
<andylockran> any recomemndations - require php < 5.2
<penguin42> andylockran: Bytemark vm ?
<andylockran> thanks
<dogmatic69> andylockran: rackspace? less than 10 quid pm, pay what you use, and install php3 if you like
<penguin42> andylockran: Oh if you do use bytemark please say it was a recommendation from VM 'treblig'
<dogmatic69> nothing like loosing the V5 right around renewal time :/
<popey> gord, now i have this water cool thing.. I guess I could overclock the core2duo E6700 a bit
<popey> its 2.66GHz at the moment. I had pondered doing the very final upgrade that this pc will ever see.. moving to a quad core q6600 cpu
<popey> to stretch the life a bit more
<popey> but actually just nudging up the multiplier should work?
<penguin42> moving to the quad will probably be a much better increase
<popey> 200 quid new though for a q6600
<popey> which is 2.4Ghz
<penguin42> really? I'm sure an i7 is about the same price
<popey> yeah, I'm not replacing mobo/ram etc
<popey> just want to do the final thing to get this as fast as it will ever get
<penguin42> nod
<popey> 2nd hand q6600's can be had on ebay for ~60
<popey> dunno whether to get a 2nd user cpu tho?
<popey> opinions sought
<penguin42> yeh sounds a bit dodgy - never done it; you don't know how hot the last guy cooked it
<popey> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Intel-Core-2-Quad-Q6600-SLACR-G0-Processor-2-4GHz-EXCELLENT-COND-/261054888691?pt=UK_Computing_CPUs_Processors&hash=item3cc8157af3
<popey> for example
<penguin42> popey: http://uk.webuy.com/product.php?sku=SCPUBDNA10   and I think they have a guarentee against it being dead
<popey> oh, ta
<penguin42> popey: Although that ebay one looks in suspiciously good condition if that really is a picture of it - I mean when does anyone keep the box and packaging? and the base of the heatsink looks pristine - either that's not the real picture or it's not actually been used
<popey> says the heatsink wasnt used
<penguin42> ah
<n1md4> Radeon HD 5450 or GeForce GT 430 ?
<Azelphur> n1md4: for gaming?
<Azelphur> n1md4: it really depends on use case :p
<n1md4> both for htpc and gaming, must be silent and cool though ... not sure if that's an oxymoron
<Azelphur> are you gaming on Linux?
<Azelphur> or just on Windows
<n1md4> Both.
<Seeker`> GT430 for video on linux
<Azelphur> yea, take the nvidia
<Azelphur> the AMD drivers and wine don't get along very well
<n1md4> is that with open drivers too?
<Azelphur> no, that's with the proprietary drivers
<Azelphur> AMD has better open drivers, but they arn't really up to spec for gaming (yet)
<n1md4> I'd only play native games, no emulation.
<Seeker`> nvidia has better on-board decoding AFAIK
<Azelphur> n1md4: you still may run into problems using the amd proprietary / open drivers
<Azelphur> if you want gaming on Linux, the answer is nvidia right now really
<Seeker`> n1md4: is open drivers actually a requirement?
<Azelphur> in the future (1-2 years) hopefully AMD will take the crown
<Azelphur> but right now, nvidia proprietary is the best option
<Azelphur> (speaking as someone who owns about 10 high end AMD and nvidia cards and tries things out quite often)
<n1md4> Ah, okay, that's useful to know :) thanks.
<Azelphur> n1md4: in like 1 or 2 years it'll swap round, AMD will be better
<Azelphur> and nvidia is far from perfect
 * Azelphur awaits the day he can ditch nvidia
<n1md4> Am I right to assume AMD is more supportive than nVIDIA?  or are they much the same
<penguin42> n1md4: AMD has released all the docs and so yes
<Azelphur> AMD is much more supportive, they provide hardware specs and have engineers dedicated to working on the open source driver
<n1md4> I'm looking at this from AMD http://www.amazon.co.uk/Asus-512MB-Radeon-Silent-profile/dp/B003CLSH3Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1341169325&sr=8-1 and http://www.amazon.co.uk/ASUS-GeForce-PCI-E-Profile-Bracket/dp/B0046Y4ONK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1341169270&sr=8-1 for the nVIDIA card; I'm not after the latest greatest..  do they seem reasonable for hd movies and light gaming?
<Azelphur> they both arn't going to have much grunt in games
<Azelphur> the AMD card will be quieter it appears to be fanless
<n1md4> right
<n1md4> I'm really not too fussed about the gaming; openareana, supcom, simcity ;)
<n1md4> so maybe the AMD is the winner in this case.
<Azelphur> the nvidia card benches about 3 times better than the amd one
<Azelphur> but yea, for games like that you don't need much
<Azelphur> hopefully it'll all work fine on either the open source or proprietary amd driver, if not it's only Â£25
<n1md4> the nv is a more at 50, but still cheap
<n1md4> Azelphur: where did you see the benchtests?
<Azelphur> n1md4: toms hardware
<n1md4> ah cool
<Azelphur> gt 430 is about 3x faster through 3dmark
<n1md4> Lastly then, could you recommend a good card, that's cool and quiet?
<Azelphur> n1md4: not really, I'm more into "screw noise go fast" cards
<Azelphur> "what is this power of which you wish to be conservative with" :D
<n1md4> ;) fair enough, it's the hybrid nature of the beast of which I need to tame.
<Azelphur> n1md4: I just slung a 5870 in my HTPC
<Azelphur> never been an issue
<n1md4> I've got a 4870 and a 2900, both were too loud :)  the 4870 actually made the room too hot too, running at around 70C ... it's on 24/7.
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> n1md4: that's not how you heat a room, this is how you heat a room https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/2011/May/IMG_20110525_034107.jpg :P
<n1md4> hah!  that's awesome!  reminds me of a time I attempted to build a rock linux cluster
<n1md4> is that a crt! old skool ;)
<Azelphur> n1md4: haha, the CRT obviously only gets used for occasional debugging
<Azelphur> just some old dumpy thing I had laying about
 * popey pokes AlanBell 
<AlanBell> o/ popey
<gord> popey, overclocked my 2.7ghz quad core to a 3ghz machine recently, only about 5 degrees rise in temperature
<gord> with the water cooling, i only have one fan on my radiator as well
<gord> might put another on there for funsies
<popey> ooh
<popey> wonder what i could crank the 2.4GHz to
 * popey attempts madness
<popey> or science
<gord> my mb has a wizard thing for overclocking, i'm on the better performance setting. i tried the super dupa 3.3ghz setting, linux works fine but windows just bsods :(
<gord> i don't know what the turbo setting would do, maybe set things on fire
<popey> yeah, mine has a wizard too
<AlanBell> did anyone see any leap-second problems?
<czajkowski> oh via my G+ stream
<czajkowski> a few people are having issues
<Seeker`> AlanBell: screwed up mythtv
 * popey tires of the #boycottapple crap
<Seeker`> popey: why this time? Android bans?
<popey> ya
<Seeker`> eugh, tis silly
<Seeker`> both the patent battles, and how people react to them
<AlanBell> Google does not need my assistance
<Seeker`> Best thing I've seen this week: All of the Americans stating they'll move to Canada because they dont like the idea of socialised healthcare
<n1md4> Azelphur: Are you around?  My laptop has a ATI Whistler [AMD Radeon HD 6600M Series], so after a little more looking around I found Asus ATI Radeon HD6450, will they be of similar quality?
<Azelphur> n1md4: the 6450 will be significantly lower
<n1md4> Hmm
<n1md4> Is there a feature list for the different model types?  (could save a few questions)
<Azelphur> n1md4: it's quite simple really, the first digit is the series, the last 3 digits is the model number, higher model number = better
<Azelphur> so for example a 5970 would kick the crap out of a 6450
<n1md4> right
<Azelphur> 800+ is for enthusiasts
<Azelphur> 9xx are usually a dual gpu version of the 8xx series
<n1md4> ahhh which is why the 2900 had comparable performance (in my untrained eye) to the 4870 ?
<Azelphur> yea, you'll find that the 2900 was probably a twin card too
<gord> #boycottboycottapple!
<n1md4> 600 and 670, alike enough to notice a different?
<Azelphur> n1md4: the 670 would be faster I think
<Azelphur> especially since your comparing a mobile gpu to a desktop one
<Azelphur> n1md4: http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html is a pretty useful page
<popey> gord, is there documentation in unity about what a lens should return ?
<popey> i.e. the structure of the thing, image, text description, url it links to for example?
 * popey wonders if AlanBell knows this given his fun with the pron lens :)
<gord> there should be, though i don't know where documentation is
<popey> :(
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1070102/
<popey> ripped from the video lens, look sane?
<popey> dnd uri?
<gord> drag and drop, has to be of a special format (freedesktop.org specifications). like application://firefox.desktop and stuff like that
<gord> the rest looks exactly like what i deal with in the dash yeah
<popey> ahh
<popey> ta
<Azelphur> Does anyone know how I might check if my 32bit libgl version isn't the same as my kernel?
<Azelphur> my wine recently broke, and apparently that's probably the issue
<n1md4> Azelphur: that's an ace site, thanks.
<Azelphur> yw
<popey> yay gord thanks got it working :D
 * popey has a lens
<popey> WARN  2012-07-01 22:17:21 unity.iconloader IconLoader.cpp:536 Unable to load icon redacted.jpg at size 64: Operation not supported
<popey> ^^ does the lens not support jpegs?
<gord> of course it can, where is redacted.jpg supposed to be?
<popey> its a url
<popey> i removed it
<popey> but it is a valid url
<gord> Operation not supported suggests that gio tried to go to the url but was refused read access
<popey> hmm, wonder why that is, it's just an http accessible image
<popey> wonder if it needs escaping or url encoding or something
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
<gord> i'm not sure if it works behind a proxy if you are behind one, can use UNITY_NEKO=1 unity to see if http is working at all
<bigcalm> Unified cat?
<popey> i am not behind a proxy
<popey> gord, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1003124
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1003124 in unity (Ubuntu) "creating and running own lens causes failure to load external images" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<popey> seems I'm not alone
<gord> shrug
<bigcalm> How does the Spotify lens work then?
<popey> ahh, looks like a problem with other lenses too
<popey> reckon i need a restart
<popey> something is not running somewhere
<popey> time for a restart :D
<bigcalm> Sounds a bit fishy to me
<popey> \o/ works
<Laney> jus' casually snapping bits of my motherboard off
<bigcalm> Laney: while it's running I hope
<Laney> unfortunately not
<Laney> was testing if it's the graphics card that makes my desktop insanely loud
<Laney> answer: yes
<dogmatic69> bought a cheep gigabit network card from maplins on the weekend, claims linux support in broken English. Wish me luck
<bigcalm> Maplin is singular :)
<czajkowski> pedant
<bigcalm> czajkowski: me :)
<directhex> dogmatic69, if it's a commonly used chip, it'll just work
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: :P
<bigcalm> Like Americans saying Legos :(
<dogmatic69> directhex: I hope so, the booklet has ./make instructions in broken English too :D
<directhex> dogmatic69, which chip is on it?
<dogmatic69> hmm, its a micronet card.
<dogmatic69> RMC chip on it, want the number?
<dogmatic69> RTL8169SC
<directhex> realtek
<directhex> supported by everything ever
<dogmatic69> cool
<directhex> modinfo r8169
<popey> author:         Realtek and the Linux r8169 crew <netdev@vger.kernel.org>
<popey> heh
<popey> why am I thinking of them dressed as rappers
<dogmatic69> hehe
<bigcalm> It's him!
<Seeker`> bigcalm: shhhh, you'll invoke his wrath!
<bigcalm> Sleepy time :)
<Azelphur> Is there any way to get a file browser up, but for a remote computer, so that I can easily move files between drives on that machine?
<Azelphur> I mount the drives via NFS at the moment, but moving a file means downloading and then reuploading it
<Azelphur> I wonder if I mounted /media instead of /media/1 /media/2... it'd move files without redownloading them
<Azelphur> think it would actually, I should do that
 * Azelphur self solves
#ubuntu-uk 2013-06-24
<czajkowski> aloha
<TheOpenSourcerer> Meauning all
<dwatkins> moin moin
<AlanBell> o/
<dwatkins> \o
<knightwise> hey dwatkins
<knightwise> hey esther
<esther> hi knightwise
<knightwise> hey esther , how are you this fine monday morning (Sighs and rubs sleep from eyes)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MooDoo> morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning diplo
<mungbean> hmm. the problem with chrome having separate processes is that they all stay under the radar in "top"
<BigRedS_> playing the benchmarks :)
<mungbean> used to regularly haev 50+ tabs open on a 2gb machine
<mungbean> now i run out of ram on a 4gb one :(
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<dwatkins> hihi
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Midsummer Day! :)
<MooDoo> morning JamesTait
<bigcalm> Morning JamesTait, wasn't that at the weekend?
<popey> i thought that, but checked wikipedia before typing ã
<bigcalm> :P
<bigcalm> Who needs facts when you have conviction?
<JamesTait> MooDoo, bigcalm, o/
<JamesTait> bigcalm, popey, I knew I should have gone with happy Fairy Day!
<bigcalm> Heh
<DJones> Hmh, Midsummer day and it seems to be the coldest day of the month so far
<DJones> Typicla british weather
<DJones> Ah, I know the reason, Wimbledon starts today
<chalcedony> heh
<bigcalm> Wimbledon? Oh fudge
<bigcalm> That means it's my birthday soon
<popey> nicely done
<popey> next you'll "accidentally" post your amazon wishlist ã
<bigcalm> What's worse is that it'll be my birthday 3 days before and I still haven't got her a gift
<popey> (feel free to do that)
<bigcalm> popey: You mean this thing? :) http://cuth.eu/wishes
<popey> ooh, short url, nice idea!
<bigcalm> :D
<DJones> Heh, Samsung Player One interface almost looks how I'd expect a Unity interface on Ubuntu phones to look http://img1.digitalversus.com/produits/36/5291/36_5291_2.jpg
<DJones> Almost appears to a Unity bar
<funkyHat> Bah. Canonical design team never have original ideas!
<popey> boom, http://popey.com/wishlist
<funkyHat> Oh now that is a good idea
<popey> DJones: (it doesn't look like that) â»
<bigcalm> The Apple TV is cheaper than I had expected it to be
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Colossus-The-Forbin-Project-DVD/dp/B00149XOVS/ref=wl_it_dp_v_S_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=LXT6MFP2WUWA&coliid=I2GMXAMI1J9QZL love that film
<popey> more computers should have blippy bloppy sound effects
<bigcalm> 5 pages of wishes?! I hate myself to just buying things when I should throw them on a wishlist
<popey> cant parse that
<bigcalm> Your wish list goes on for 5 pages
<DJones> I'm pretty sure my last HTC phone ended up with with an similar style interface
<bigcalm> Mine, I think, is just 1 page at the moment
<DJones> bigcalm: Whats the betting some people just use www.amazon.co.uk as their wishlist :)
<bigcalm> I need to find more things to put on my wish list
<mungbean> i have just the thing
<mungbean> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Character-Building-Eleventh-Doctor-Collector/dp/B005A54XF8/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1372064923&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=doctor+who+character+building
<steveccc> apologies for this question - I know its off topic - using skype on ubuntu and I wondered if anyone from the uk here uses a subscription - I wanted to know what is classed as a landline number - is it just the standard area codes and not 0845 numbers etc?
<DJones> steveccc: I would expect it will just be normal numbers and would exclude 0845 number etc
<popey> steveccc: i have one
<steveccc> popey: may i pm you
<popey> you can talk here â»
<popey> not used it recently.. hmm
 * popey looks for the skype icon
<popey> bah, skype credit expired
<dwatkins> "Premium rate numbers: The charges payable for calling premium rate numbers consist of a per-minute rate available at www.skype.com/go/rates-premium. No connection fee is payable."
<popey> steveccc: generally landline referrs to numbers which are 01xxxxxx
<TheOpenSourcerer> I think "landline" numbers are not numbers called non-geographic, e.g. 0844, 0845 etc.
<dwatkins> It doesn't define what a landline is on that page, as far as I can see, however: http://www.skype.com/en/legal/tou/
<steveccc> i have to start home working soon and didnt want to get another landline or use my mobile. The subscription sounds good but if its just pure landlines I am sure it will annoy me more than it works as lots of places these days have "alternative numbers"
<TheOpenSourcerer> We use an 0844 number. It's cheap for us but all callers pay national rate call charges.
<dwatkins> there's always http://www.saynoto0870.com/
<steveccc> i presume if i buy a landline number without the monthly subscriptions that incoming will be working ok
<diplo> TheOpenSourcerer: Do you still run a Asterix box ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> diplo: Yes - we run it on a VM at Hetzner in Germany
<diplo> oh right, about to play with it myself was wondering if you could recommend a card but I'm guessing you rent sip lines or something
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yes - we rent IAX2 trunks.
<TheOpenSourcerer> No physical cards here ;-)
<diplo> I just want a play, will do some googling later and read some reviews
<shreyas> hello
<steveccc> are there any good alternatives to skype for linux for normal voice calls
<czajkowski> steveccc: does it need to be on the desktop
<TheOpenSourcerer> Years ago I bought a simple analogue card off eBay and ran it in my little via C7 home server.
<czajkowski> personally skype does the job perfectly well and I'll never not have it
<czajkowski> if you want on your phone, use viber
<shreyas> how good is gnome theme
<diplo> OK, cheap / simple sounds good to me
<TheOpenSourcerer> steveccc: Google Hangouts, SFLPhone (SIP Softfone)
<shreyas> .....................................
<steveccc> theopensourcerer: does google hangouts to landline calls?
<TheOpenSourcerer> steveccc: Dunno actually. Doubt it cause that means there needs to be money involved.
<Gary> hi ya, does anyone have any ideas on what I can get my foster-son for his 16th Birthday (which is in less than a month) - money is really tight :'(
<mungbean> what does he like doing?
<Gary> well, thats the fun bit, he's a bit depressed and stuff (hense him being my fosterkid) and doesn't do much/he's a bit withdrawn
<mungbean> sounds like my wife's foster bro
<Gary> he is getting better, at least he talks and leaves his room now!
<mungbean> being a teenager sucks
<mungbean> except for summer holidays
<Gary> but trying to get interests/wants out of him is entertaining
<mungbean> raspberry pi?
<mungbean> maybe source a screen/keyboard/mouse from friends for free
<Gary> he's recently accidently broken the screen on a old handmedown laptop, but I cannot afford a new one for him
<mungbean> which model?
<Gary> I think it is a HP 6730p
<Gary> I'd have to check though
 * christel hugs Gary 
<Gary> :-)
<bigcalm> Is it just me, or does chromium not like Sound Cloud?
<bigcalm> christel: something for your aural senses https://soundcloud.com/weebl/pills
<popey> bigcalm: yeah, i had that, some problem with the plugins or something
<bigcalm> popey: not really worth my time to mess about with it. Firefox is playing it okay :)
<bigcalm> Is it worth ditching chromium and installing chrome?
 * popey shrugs
<popey> i use chromium
<bigcalm> Oh, I thought you had chrome
<davmor2> Morning all
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<bigcalm> davmor2: are you still using stock vendor on your SGS3? If so, have you yet had the system freeze on you?
<davmor2> bigcalm: it's mostly switched off now as I am using ubuntu phone on my galaxy nexus.  I've had it reboot a few times but not freeze, I'd ring your provider to be honest
<popey> \o/
<bigcalm> Ho hum
 * popey flashes his phone
<davmor2> popey: Ubuntu touch is beginning to rock more each day :)  I showed a business owner it over the weekend he was gob smacked how much had been done in such a short time :)
<mungbean> any recent vids of it?
<BigRedS> I'm tempted to stick Ubuntu on my now-superceded Galaxy S 2
<davmor2> popey: he loved a couple of things about it, the keyboard wasn't tiny, and the full screen layout,  I showed him the design for the calendar (I know he uses his a hell of a lot) and he loved it :)
<BigRedS> then I'd essentially have a tablet that's smaller than my phone
<BigRedS> anyone know if the build tools all Just Work in Debian?
<davmor2> BigRedS: I've no idea but popey  might be able to answer that better
<BigRedS> I'd assumed it was just dump a zip on the sd card and tell clockworkmod to install it, but all the instructions look a lot more involved :/
<BigRedS> davmor2: yeah, I could RTFM though :)
<mungbean> would ubuntu phone work on my hp touchpad yet?
<BigRedS> I recall xnox mentioning that all the ubuntu tools were just wrappers around adb and friends, so I guess at worst I need to work out what they're calling
<BigRedS> mungbean: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<davmor2> BigRedS: you can do it that way too, the phablet flash tools actually just makes life easier :)
<BigRedS> easier than copying a zip file?
<davmor2> BigRedS: oh I just thought you can't use phablet flash so you would need to follow the steps on xda/ubuntu wiki probably
<BigRedS> davmor2: yeah, I gues half the instructions are to get cm and stuff installed, assuming a locked device with stock bootloader etc.
<davmor2> BigRedS: phablet-flash in a terminal is really easy  for me :)
<xnox> BigRedS: well, yeah.... one can use just plain adb to install ubuntu touch without and phablet-flash and etc: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install#Manual_Installation
<popey> BigRedS: yes, it's just dump a zip file on
<BigRedS> Oh. cool
<popey> mungbean: if someone has ported it
<BigRedS> see, this is why I never get as far as bothering to rtfm - I wonder out loud in IRC and several people give me the answers :)
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<popey> hah
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices/tenderloin
<popey> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2175277
<mungbean> wondering if it will trash my CM install
<BigRedS> probably
<mungbean> i hate forums
<mungbean> skiiming the pages
<mungbean> they are waiting for 13.04, works for 12.10
<BigRedS> which reminds me, I'm almost completely sold on stock androids now. Few days into stock firmware on my GS3 and I'm absolutely loving how much more stable and less clunky it is
<mungbean> p12 has a git link
<mungbean> xda people can't help but give terse instructions
<mungbean> as if they have a bus to catch
<BigRedS> I've always found those helpful. They say exactly what you need to do and nothing more
<mungbean> no because on p4 there's some cirtical info that doesn't ever make it to the first post
<popey> indeed, forums suck. all of them. with no exceptions
<mungbean> s/forums/tech forums/
<popey> nah, all
<mungbean> modelling forums do the job
<popey> i have a prolem with my volvo
<popey> same thing, solution is on page 11 of 12
<mungbean> yep
<BigRedS> they're good for being a forum, less so for being a technical reference
<bigcalm> popey: my phone froze when I tried to view the image about fiddling with your phone
<popey> hah, irony
<bigcalm> Love it
<mungbean> modelling forums it works because there's no problems  just chit chat and work in progress, and final build shots etc
<mungbean> no critical answers,
<BigRedS> I use two forums regularly. One of them I find asolutely fine annd the other's only an issue because its 'style' makes my eyes bleed. But I use them entirely socially so I don't care where the 'solution' is, it's just a conversation
<mungbean> obv except for the "whats the best airbrush, ZZZ posts"
<mungbean> anyone else with firefox audio stuttering, requiring pulseaudio kill each time?
<mungbean> watching gangnam style ghostbusters mashuop..seems to work
<popey> never use firefox
<mungbean> chrome does it 2x speed instead
<mungbean> until PA restarted
<awilkins> My problem with pulse is if I skip around in a video file it gets into a corrupt state and plays nothing but broken frames
<popey> http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/laptops-netbooks/laptops/chromebooks/samsung-series-3-wifi-chromebook-silver-19273050-pdt.html
<popey> chromebook dropped in price
<popey> (arm)
<mungbean> is that the discountinued one?
<popey> dunno
<Gary> I could get one of them for the fosterkid!
<Gary> as long as he can see farcebook and boobtube he;ll be happy
<mungbean> there's lots of things my 16yr old self would love doing, but i'm not/was not every 16yr old
<mungbean> how much work can you do offline on a chrome book? e.g. documents
<Gary> not sure really
<Gary> I'd really want to nip into pcworld and try one
<MooDoo> Gary: I do that all the time at our local pc world, still can't afford one though
<Gary> well I can't either, but it is his 16th soon and I might be able to extort money out of his mother and father
<mungbean> if i had summer hlidays at my disposal, i'd be making this: http://airfixtributeforum.myfastforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=21527&hilit=a50009
<mungbean> kids are all xbox nowadays :(
<Gary> airfix stuff is great
<mungbean> yeah
<mungbean> a noble hobby
<Gary> Daniel used to do warhammer stuff, till it got too uncool
<MooDoo> I love warhammer 40k :)
<mungbean> i think others progress onto gangpla jap robots
<mungbean> or WWII airfix etc
<mungbean> cool is only what's defined by critical mass of people anyway, but means everything to teenagers
<mungbean> MooDoo: what's 40k?
<mungbean> ah, tabletop game
<mungbean> LOTR warhammer must be considered cool by everyone :D
<MooDoo> mungbean: warhammer 40k is space marines set in the far future
<MooDoo> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000
<mungbean> dressing up as legolas to play lotr version seems compulsory... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Mr_Rose/WotR/m2060051_P1Mb3.jpg
<diplo> Python people in here ? New to it, but basically wrote a simple script with urllib.urlretrieve to grab 1600+ images from a supplier but it's slooow
<diplo> Guessing it's because it's opening a new connection to each image each time.. any way of keeping a session open some how ?
<mgdm> the option you want is called 'keepalive', but I've no idea if urllib supports it
<diplo> ta, I'll read their docs
<MooDoo> diplo, you'e not the messaih you're a very naughty boy, wrong python?
<BigRedS> Same python, isn't it?
<BigRedS> well, the one named after the other
<mgdm> Indeed
<diplo> :)
 * czajkowski pokes davmor2 
 * MooDoo gives czajkowski a cattle prod...and welcome back 
<diplo> bah, finished now anyway.. urllib3 seems the way to go but I'm not I can be bothered to re-write it
<diplo> that was the helpful thing to search for mgdm so thanks for the input
<mungbean> are NS&I accounts still worth getting for kids?
<bigcalm> mungbean: if you're willing to put in a good chunk of money
<bigcalm> I've got some money locked away in an account. It's "won" Â£25 in the last 6 years
<mungbean> discovered the halifax one is 3% for kids
<mungbean> banks are the worst kind of ripoff now
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski with a small lump of charcoal :)
<mungbean> in the olden days at least interest rates on old accounts wouldnt go to 0.1%
<christel> i think halifax does a no-withdrawal one that is modelled loosely on the old child trust fund setup which has a slightly better interest rate
<christel> 6% fixed iirc
<mungbean> hmm
<christel> (unless that has changed since i last looked)
<mungbean> ah yes christel
<mungbean> its a regular investment capped at 100pm for 1 yr
<mungbean> so have to move after 1 yr
<mungbean> or you get screwed as usual
<mungbean> i was thinking more along lines of 3k in a kiddies account and leave to simmer for 20 years
 * czajkowski tickles davmor2 missing me yet 
<davmor2> czajkowski: who are you?
<christel> mungbean: aah! that is a bit rubbish
<christel> i have various savings accounts for the boy wonder but i am not very clued up about what they do/are -- i have a financial advisor who just tells me how to save in the most tax-efficient manner!
<diplo> Save? Wats that word mean?!?!?
<diplo> :P
<davmor2> christel: Save you mean you have money left once you pay your amazon bill ;)
<mungbean> its all very stressful
<christel> davmor2: i dont use amazon! :P
<christel> but yes, i am fortunate enough in my old age to have reached a point where my income far outweighs my outgoings so i figured it was wise to plan ahead for stuff like sending kids to uni and what not! ;)
<mungbean> however at todays rates, 3k in saving at birth will equal 3056.64 at uni time :(
<davmor2> mungbean: well that's their beer fund for the first term whats wrong with that ;)
<christel> davmor2: you're optimistic! in 20 years time 3K will only buy you a half...
<mungbean> it still doesn't make me give up and spend it though
<mungbean> which is the govts wish
<christel> :)
<davmor2> mungbean: at 3% in an isa you would be closer to Â£5000 I think
<mungbean> but with inflation..
<davmor2> mungbean: what will you care you'll be soylent green by then any way ;)
<mungbean> in 20 yrs ? :(
<Laney> 3% in an ISA
<Laney> ho ho ho ho
<Laney> I could only get 2.8 including a 1 year bonus this financial year :(
<mungbean> i got 4.5 last year, i wonder if i can trasnfer in
<davmor2> mungbean: and if you're lucky that will be worth a barmy 3 intergalactic units or Â£1.50
<Laney> managed to get a whopping 3% in december
<Laney> (including bonus too)
<Laney> that closed to new deposits when this financial year started
<mungbean> my inflation is much higher
<mungbean> can i transfer an ISA twice in a year?
<mungbean> Interest rate: 4.25% Gross
<mungbean> could be an epic win as i've been putting into one since they began
<Laney> yeah now you have to ditch & switch every year
<Laney> irritating
<mungbean> just a tad
<feisar> hi, just installed 13.04 on a netbook for a friend but it's pretty much unusable due to the graphics, is there anyway to fix that or is Ubuntu no use for netbooks anymore?
<brobostigon> feisar: i wouldnt use unity on a netbook, try something abit lighter on its reources, like xfce, for example.
<feisar> brobostigon: yeah thanks, that's actually what I do for myself but this guy likes ubuntu (and unity) and it's a shame if I have to put him back on 12.04
<brobostigon> feisar: you dont need to go back, just install xfce on 13.04
<feisar> brobostigon: but xfce is not what this guys used to, it's quite different from Unity
<brobostigon> feisar: i am sure, there are probably ways of making unity abit lighter on resources, i dont use unity myself, but many here do, i am sure someone can help.
<feisar> it takes 15 seconds to bring up the dash
<dwatkins> is unity used on the netbook version of ubuntu?
<dwatkins> my netbook ran everything better after being upgraded to 2 GB of RAM
<MartijnVdS> more RAM is always useful;
<feisar> I don't think it's the problem here (or enough of the problem). I'm gunna have to give this guy 12.04
<feisar> he uses dropbox which doesn't integrate with Thunar so xfce is not a real option
<brobostigon> try gnome3, dropbox works with nautilus last i looked.
<feisar> can I just apt-get install gnome3?
<brobostigon> !info gnome-shell
<brobostigon> !gnome-shell
<lubotu3> gnome-shell (source: gnome-shell): graphical shell for the GNOME desktop. In component universe, is optional. Version 3.6.3.1-0ubuntu0.1 (quantal), package size 345 kB, installed size 934 kB
<feisar> ok, I gave him a call and he's willing to try xubuntu
<feisar> but I'm guessing I need to install nautilus so he gets a decent experience with dropbox
<brobostigon> sudo apy-get install xubuntu nautilus       m job done.
<brobostigon> correct my mistakes.
<feisar> thanks, will it be the default then?
<brobostigon> it might replace the login manager, but you will be able to choose unity etc on login like normal.
<feisar> I mean , if I install xubuntu how do I then make nautilus default?
<brobostigon> feisar: you should be able to change in xfce's preferences which it uses as default.
<feisar> ok thanks
<brobostigon> as you can in gnome's preferences.
<brobostigon> although, i have not tried it in xfce.
<Azelphur> http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/Document.jsp?objectID=c02903601 hmm, this looks a tad worrying
<Azelphur> especially since I just turned it on xD
<Azelphur> Hey folks, fresh Ubuntu 13.04 installation on my new microserver, ethernet ain't working. :( lshw -c network says that the interface is "disabled", and it doesn't show up in ifconfig, ideas?
<DJones> Any bios switch for it
<Azelphur> DJones: wouldn't think it would be turned off by default, this is brand new ootb hardware
<Azelphur> http://ustream.tv/channel/Azelphur there we go, you can see whats going on now.
<MartijnVdS> NO U STREAM TV
<Azelphur> D:
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: or, when it goes down: Y U NO STREAM TV
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: No such device -> no cable?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS, nope, cables in and ethernet light is on
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: ip link ; ip -s link
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS, seems to call it em1, interesting
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: oh is it bsd?
<Azelphur> nope, this is ubuntu server 13.04
<MartijnVdS> because fedora 15 seems to do this as well
<MartijnVdS> for "embedded on the motherboard" ports
<MartijnVdS> or something
<Azelphur> I see
<MartijnVdS> you want to look for 'consistent device naming'
<Azelphur> I don't have anything in /etc/network/interfaces for em1
<MartijnVdS> i.e. a udev rule of some kind :)
<Azelphur> so perhaps that's why
<MartijnVdS> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2146205
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: that's good, that means network-manager manages it.. unless it's a server install that tends to be what you want
<Azelphur> it's a server install
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: check /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules
<Azelphur> righto
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS, haha fixed it, yup, em1 stuff in /etc/networking.
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: but check the persistent-net.rules
<Azelphur> it's empty.
<MartijnVdS> that would explain it then :)
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> I think it's because I didn't auto configure networking during install actually, all I had to do was put the entry in the network file
<Azelphur> and off it went
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS, take a look at the hardware, not bad for 70 quid :)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: how? where?
<Azelphur> you not on the ustream
<Azelphur> ?
<MartijnVdS> yes but I saw a screen :)
<MartijnVdS> is that one of the HP boxes?
<MartijnVdS> microservers
<Azelphur> yup
<MartijnVdS> shiny
<Azelphur> :D
<Azelphur> not bad for 70 quid
<MartijnVdS> not at all
<MartijnVdS> what kind of spec (cpu, etc.)
<MartijnVdS> Are those 4 SATA hotswap bays?
<Azelphur> 4 sata bays, non hot swap
<ali1234> i thought sata was always hotswap
<Azelphur> AMD Turion II Neo N54L Dual core 2.2ghz
<Azelphur> it's got a big-ass label on it saying no hotswap
<MartijnVdS> meh.. I even have a hotswap bay in my Cooler Master case
<MartijnVdS> works fine
<MartijnVdS> Is that you in the frame?
<Azelphur> yea they are all labeled "non hot plug HDD"
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS, yup
<Azelphur> so yea that's done anyway, now to play with it and set up samba and such
<SuperEngineer> I asked this last night but didn't follow up. So: what is the difference between minecraft.net & minecraft.org [is one a false link]?
<SuperEngineer> [thinking of trying Minecraft but don't fancy going where only evil people tread]
<ali1234> minecraft.net is the real one
<MartijnVdS> .org seems to be a site for addon packs
<SuperEngineer> thanks ali1234, MartijnVdS
<SuperEngineer> is it worth trying the free [from Software Centre] Minetest clone... to see if it's to my taste?
<SuperEngineer> ...or stick to the real game & hope
<popey> no harm trying minetest
<SuperEngineer> if it's close enough to see if it's "within my test" - that's cool... will give it a go 1st
<SuperEngineer> sub test/taste - sorry
<advancedgarde> Evening.
 * brobostigon used to run his own minetest server,
<advancedgarde> So, after extensive testing, I phoned WD about my faulty HDD and it's going to be replaced under warenty.
<advancedgarde> Can anyone recommend any good software for (relatively) securely erasing the data before I ship it?
<brobostigon> dd
<advancedgarde> is dd secure?
<MartijnVdS> dd just overwrites
<MartijnVdS> which is secure
<MartijnVdS> why wouldn't it be?
<advancedgarde> Hmm, I was under the impression it was better to overwite your data with some random non repeating patterns.
<brobostigon>  /dev/null :)
<MartijnVdS> advancedgarde: you could send the drive a "secure erase" command
<MartijnVdS> https://ata.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/ATA_Secure_Erase
<advancedgarde> I thought that was just SSDs
<MartijnVdS> advancedgarde: secure erase is for all ATA drives that support it
<MartijnVdS> you may be thinking of TRIM
<advancedgarde> That is cool, I did not know it applied to conventional HDDs
<MartijnVdS> advancedgarde: anyway, that wiki page explains how to secure-erase a (S)ATA Drive
<advancedgarde> Thank you.
<awilkins> AFAIK `dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/disktowipe` is secure enough also
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: unless the receiver has access to some VERY expensive equipment, and knows what kind of thing he's looking for
<awilkins> All the stuff about there being traces of previous writes was true of older disks with much larger magnetic domains
<awilkins> But I bet you that even modern data recovery labs are hard-pressed to get data back from a zero-wiped platter
<MartijnVdS> true
<MartijnVdS> 1TB platters are *insane*
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: but a proper ATA secure erase can't hurt :)
<advancedgarde> awilkins, I agree with you completly and also doubt that I have anything of interest to anyone at WD on my drive. Also it's a 2TB drive so ...
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: by the firmware itself
<awilkins> Nope,. can't hurt
<awilkins> And will be fastest possible speed
<advancedgarde> Sounds perfect.
<awilkins> The fastest way to secure wipe a drive is to use full disk encryption and then wipe the keyblock
<awilkins> Providing your encryption scheme was secure in the first place, you end up with a drive that should be indistinguishable from random noise
<awilkins> Our "secure" flash drive vendor plays on our fears and says we should physically destroy them when we're done with them
<awilkins> Rather than just reformatting the things
<awilkins> (they are cheap nasty flash drives with a plaintext partition for the drivers)
<awilkins> (they charge Â£64 for a 2GB one - I literally can't even buy 2GB flash drives anymore)
<advancedgarde> awilkins, at the risk of sounding as if I have somehting to hide, I've heard that if I encrypt my and the government want to know what's on there that legally I must provide the key. What would happen if I did as you said, would we end up with a drive that could not be decrypted?
<SuperEngineer> advancedgarde: ever heard of a de-gauser?
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: *zap*
<ali1234> advancedgarde: yes
<awilkins> advancedgarde, Well, you could claim you like to collect random noise
<awilkins> advancedgarde, Another response to that threat is a plausible deniability partition
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: "I'm a connoisseur of random noise"
<awilkins> advancedgarde, Where you have an encrypted volume inside another one
<advancedgarde> hidden as data files?
<awilkins> TrueCrypt has this feature
<awilkins> No, hidden at the end of the block
<awilkins> So the outer volume looks like a normal file system occupying that size of space
<awilkins> You mount the outer volume read-only in normal use, then mount the inner volume
<awilkins> Set it up so there's something mildly embarassing / private/ confidential in the outer volume
<awilkins> So there's a reason for you to have encrypted it
<awilkins> Of course, the spooks KNOW about this approach
<awilkins> But they can't prove it
<awilkins> And it's lot more plausible to say "no, there isn't an nested volume" than "no, that huge block of random noise is just the output of some astronomical sensors aimed at empty space"
<ali1234> what if i actually have a large amount of random looking data?
<awilkins> ali1234, Then you go to jail for 2 years, I think
<advancedgarde> Yes. Probably even more plausible to respond with "What's a nested volume?".
<awilkins> Heh, the spooks already know that we know now
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lRldr2BH2M
 * awilkins waves at the PRISM / ECHELON guys
<ali1234> does anyone have a good system for handling "old" files?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: rm -rf
<ali1234> you know when you make a new homedir
<ali1234> and rename the old one "old" and put it inside the old "old" one
<ali1234> and keep doing that for like 15 years
<advancedgarde> That's what I do.
<MartijnVdS> so you have old/old/old/old/username
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> pretty much
<ali1234> it's like 100GB now and i need to sort it
<advancedgarde> Everynow and then I move them to a new folder called "back".
<mungbean> have you used it?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: take a week off work, sort ~
<ali1234> yeah thing is i don't want to do it manually
<ali1234> i need some software to do it for me
<awilkins> Heh, I restore my old home folder backup to a folder in my new home folder too
<awilkins> I move anything that's still relevant out
<mungbean> remove firefox caches and profiles etc, maybe its the 80-20 rule
<ali1234> yeah so do i. but that's normally just .ssh and .mozilla
<MartijnVdS> ~/Music
<awilkins> Yeah, so I can probably lose quite a lot of that restore folder
<MartijnVdS> and those other xdg dirs
<awilkins> ~/Music is on an external volume
<ali1234> i don't keep music in my homedir
<mungbean> 80% of dpace taken by 20% so du usually finds the nulk, and 20% leave until never
<ali1234> i don't use any of the standard folders actually
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: is that Welsh?
<awilkins> My music is on an external drive and synced (manually) with my other devices
<mungbean> dpace=space nulk=bulk
<mungbean> babytyping
<MartijnVdS> :)
<ali1234> so i'm thinking hash all the files to remove duplicates
<advancedgarde> I was talking about doing exactly the same thing about 2 hours ago with my dad ...
<ali1234> then libextract to get kkeywords
<mungbean> quite easy to find matches in a du list and a sum'd list
<ali1234> but then i don't know what to do after that
<ali1234> maybe heuristic to find source directories, there's probably a lot of those
<mungbean> it might not matter if u already have the big stuff from a du -ks | sort -n
<awilkins> Trash anything that is a version controlled folder with no local changes
<ali1234> there are no big files
<mungbean> 100gb?
<ali1234> i wasn't exagerating when i said 15 years
<mungbean> 10gb per upgrade i suppose
<mungbean> archive it?
<ali1234> it already is archived
<ali1234> the problem is finding things
<mungbean> you regularly do that?
<mungbean> find thingds?
<ali1234> yes
<mungbean> wonder if tracker finds dupes
<ali1234> tracker can't handle it
<advancedgarde> I'm going to go eat dinner. Thanks for the help ^^
<ali1234> i will write my own db for it
<AlanBell> ali1234: I have a fairly deep tree of /home/alan/Desktop/stuff/stuff/stuff/stuff where I have done the tidyup
<ali1234> i've been tidying it for years
<ali1234> that's why there's no longer any big files
<MartijnVdS> I have several directories where I keep files that are hard/impossible to replace
<MartijnVdS> others I just delete
<AlanBell> I only have 1.4G on the desktop and below
<MartijnVdS> my desktop is 8k.. a link to steam
<dwatkins> can I make alt+\ switch windows within a particular application, e.g. between terminals in Unity?
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: alt+` does that
<dwatkins> aha thanks MartijnVdS :)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: so I guess you can rebind it in the keyboard preferences
<mungbean> realised i only read twitter 1x per week, or maybe longer now
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: barbarian!
<ali1234> 199G	.
<ali1234> hmm it's growing
<mungbean> what size are top 10 files?
<ali1234> how do i find out?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: baobab
<ali1234> that doesn't show files at all
<mungbean> start with du -ks * | sort -n | head
<mungbean> du -ks * | sort -rn | head
<ali1234> that only lists the directories
<mungbean> depends how nested, hmm
<mungbean> du -x / | sort -rn | head ?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: ls -lRS | sort -n -k 5
<mungbean> du -x  | sort -rn | head ?
<MartijnVdS> that would work
<MartijnVdS> mungbean wins :)
<ali1234> again that just lists directories
<MartijnVdS> du -x lists everything right?
<MartijnVdS> ah
<MartijnVdS> du -ax
<MartijnVdS> ^
<ali1234> the biggest file is 20301996	./phablet-dev
<ali1234> hmm my bad
<ali1234> the biggest file is 63008864	./crapola/al-old/Old
<ali1234> then 32031244	./crapola/al-old/Old/ooo
<ali1234> then 32031240	./crapola/al-old/Old/ooo/Old
<ali1234> and so on
<mungbean> ax
<ali1234> i'll just write some code to sort it
<mungbean> check that ax also reads . files
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: du -ax ~ should do that
<mungbean> yep
<ali1234> ax outputs exactly the same
<mungbean> .wine naughty
<mungbean> GOG.com/IL-2 Sturmovik 1946
<mungbean> 6gb
<mungbean> guys, apt-get install ncdu
<mungbean> you will not regret it
<popey> !info ncdu
<lubotu3> ncdu (source: ncdu): ncurses disk usage viewer. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.8-1 (quantal), package size 25 kB, installed size 87 kB
<mungbean> amazing
<popey> cute
 * popey adds that to command line love
<ali1234> find Old/ -type f -exec ./extract.py {} \; | tee filedata.txt
<mungbean> \o/
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5796503/ <- extract.py
<mungbean> "This week's command line love comes from mungbean in irc"..would make me lol to hear that on the radio show
<ali1234> 200GB so this should take about ... 2 days
<ali1234> hmm i found some big "files" :)
<mungbean> ali1234 is going to jail for 2yrs
<ali1234> .cache is rather big and i have many
<mungbean> random data, sir? a likely story , off to the nick
<mungbean> .cache is big on mine too
<mungbean> chromium
<mungbean> apr 2012 last used
 * AlanBell has a clean desktop again
<AlanBell> apart from one folder called "Desktop Stuff"
<ali1234> deleting all the cache directories recovered 6 GB
<ali1234> 194GB to go
<mungbean> old picasa 2 dbs
<mungbean> google suck
<mungbean> all these non standard locations
<ali1234> 2200724 files
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: it's getting better though
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: stuff is in ~/.config now and ~/.cache
<awilkins> NTFS would pitch a hissy fit if you did that to it
<ali1234> what?
<awilkins> fed it over 2 million files
<ali1234> make lots of nested backups?
<ali1234> oh
<ali1234> well linux doesn't do much better
<ali1234> try putting 100000 files in a directory, then entering the directory and pressing tab twice
<ali1234> 3123 filedata.txt - 1.5% scanned :)
<awilkins> At least the userspace tools on Linux can cope with paths longer than 240 chars
<awilkins> FAT has a limit... but NTFS has no such limit ... but all the userspace tools (and maybe the APIs) still verify the limit
<awilkins> Which is silly, especially given Window's penchant for unncessarily long path names
<awilkins> "Documents and Settings\username\My Documents" I'm looking at you
<mungbean> wonder if its worth watching the mary celsete prog on yesterday channel
<ali1234> ooo i found my second life login
<ali1234> down to 168GB after deleting several old kernels and tianocore
<awilkins> Ahh, Second Life.
<awilkins> I used to tool around with an avatar that wore a dragons head and claws, black keratin skeletal wings
<awilkins> And fly a lot
<ali1234> my dude has a ridiculous afro and shades
<awilkins> Then I landed on one of those islands that's mostly very strange pr0n
<awilkins> Accidentally, 'natch
<diplo> evening all, never played Second Life
<ali1234> i'm down to 147GB/1.4M files
<diplo> :D
<mungbean> i would love a tv programme like this for the UK
<mungbean> http://www.travelchannel.com/video/rocket-firing-boba-fett
<mungbean> james may goes into peoples attics to find crusty old rare toys
<GentileBen> That's still a lot of porn, ali1234.
<Azelphur> are unmounted drives supposed to show up in blkid?
<Azelphur> having quite a bit of trouble getting them to mount at all actually, wondering if it's because they are 3TB drives
<Azelphur> they worked fine when I had them in the USB enclosure
<awilkins> Azelphur, block device is a block device, surely?
<Azelphur> awilkins: you'd think, trying mount /dev/sdb1 /media/disk, and it says that it can't determine the filesystem type
<Azelphur> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5796684/ fdisk output
<ali1234> well did yo format it?
<awilkins> Not encrypted are they?
<awilkins> (no, they worked fine in the USB thing)
<Azelphur> ali1234: it has data on it from when it was a USB drive
<Azelphur> and yea, they worked fine in USB
<ali1234> what does dmesg say
<awilkins> Not a sector size mismatch thing is it
<Azelphur> [ 7105.684109] FAT-fs (sdb1): bogus number of reserved sectors
<Azelphur> [ 7105.684206] FAT-fs (sdb1): Can't find a valid FAT filesystem
<ali1234> well it isn't fat
<awilkins> I've seen USB drives that had an odd block size before - the controller isn't doing weird stuff?
<ali1234> not if it is 3TB
<Azelphur> yea
<Azelphur> I think it's exFAT
<Azelphur> wondering if it's because they are 3tb?
<ali1234> they were 3tb in the usb enclosure tho...
<Azelphur> that's true, they were
<Paladine> thanks for the tweet popey
<Azelphur> this is a new box I'm plugging them into too, but they were plugged into a Ubuntu machine fine before
<awilkins> Not the USB controller doing funky stuff with the blocks is it?
<Azelphur> no idea
<awilkins> Doing LBA with different block counts to compensate for them being 3TB drives
<Azelphur> http://www.ebuyer.com/384256-seagate-3tb-expansion-desktop-hard-drive-stbv3000200?utm_source=google&utm_medium=products&gclid=CK3giu7P_bcCFaXMtAodCQ8ALg it's a pair of these
<awilkins> I think I've only got up to 2TB drives :-Z
<popey> np Paladine
<Paladine> back shortly
<Azelphur> ali1234: so any ideas?
<ali1234> probably the USB controller
<Azelphur> back in the enclosure, backup, reformat? *sigh*
<awilkins> Take note of the block metrics in the enclosure too
<awilkins> Will be interesting if nothing else
<Azelphur> awilkins: what do you wanna know? it's in the enclosure now
<awilkins> What's the output of fdisk again
<Azelphur> awilkins: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5796764/ it's sdb
<awilkins> You can see the problem right there
<Azelphur> yea?
<awilkins> Check the logical sector size and sector counts
<awilkins> Compared to your old fdisk http://paste.ubuntu.com/5796684/
<Azelphur> 4096 byte sectors?
<Azelphur> so the usb thing breaks the 4096 sectors into 512s
<awilkins> Yeah, attached to the SATA port they are 512 byte sectors
<Azelphur> oh
<awilkins> On the USB they are 4096
<Azelphur> right, anyway, suggestions on what partitioning to use now? :P
<Azelphur> I have one ready to repartition, then I'll move the data and do the other one
<awilkins> Back it up and repartition it on the SATA
<Azelphur> yea I'm repartitioning on the sata
<awilkins> That's the problem - your partition tables are right for 4096 byte sectors, not 512 byte ones
<Azelphur> indeed :)
<awilkins> Well, do they have to share with Windows?
<Azelphur> awilkins: got one on USB (has data) and one the SATA (no data) ready to be repartitioned
<Azelphur> awilkins: only via samba and such.
<awilkins> Right, so you can choose a native linux FS
<Azelphur> their new permanent home is inside my fileserver
<Azelphur> yup
<awilkins> I would probably just go for ext4 because it's the default and I have no special needs
<awilkins> In the past I've used reiser and xfs but for particular applications
<Azelphur> sounds cool, do I need to do anything special regarding partition tables for 3tb drives
<Azelphur> I'm sure I remembr reading about them needing to be GPT
<awilkins> xfs for a mythtv server because it deletes large files with small cost
<Azelphur> awilkins: this is movie storage much like mythtv
<Azelphur> so, XFS might be a better choice?
<awilkins> Not sure, I set this box up before ext4 was available
<Azelphur> hehe
<awilkins> Really old MythTV server - has a Sempron under the hood
<Azelphur> I'll go ext4 since it's easy :)
<Azelphur> awilkins: haha, so does mine
<Azelphur> sempron 140 \m/
<Azelphur> now to figure out how on earth to use parted
<awilkins> I just use fdisk
<diplo> Azelphur: My file server with lots of films on it is fine, albeit it's a samba box not a myth backend
<Azelphur> awilkins: that works too :)
<diplo> Same here, never actually tried parted on the cl
<Azelphur> awilkins: what would I do with fdisk to reformat it?
<diplo> i
<awilkins> Never really got myself square with LVM
<diplo> mk2fs.ext4 ?
<awilkins> fdisk, it has a help menu
<diplo> Something like that
<Azelphur> ah
<awilkins> I usually check that before each command
<diplo> Don't format with fdisk
<awilkins> No, fdisk is for partition tables
<awilkins> fdisk then mkfs.ext4
<diplo> yah
<awilkins> Using the Japanese Train Driver method (physically point at screen checking parameters before hitting enter)
 * diplo +1's awilkins 
<awilkins> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ydC8ll5iNY
<diplo> I always when playing with fdisk for a customer run in a spare vm, never feel overly confident :)
<awilkins> I managed to dd over the partition table on a live machine once
<diplo> ooer
<awilkins> It was the root partition of the box I was running on
<awilkins> Happily it was just my workstation
<awilkins> But still bloody annoying
<awilkins> Managed to back it up before it shut down for the last time ever....
<awilkins> Was trying to wipe the partition table on a stubborn flash drive
<diplo> My biggest, maybe only foobar at work was...
<diplo> rf -rf / :D
<diplo> rm*
<awilkins> Ooopsie
<awilkins> That's a classic
<diplo> heh, twas only the backup machine
<diplo> Wrote a script to backup sql db's and rsync some sites
<diplo> And did a check for age of file and passed it like $file/
<diplo> Don't know why I'd left a slash on the end.. but i did
<Azelphur> there we go, one successfully mounted 3TB drive
<diplo> And when there was nofile it pass the file
<diplo> \o/
<Azelphur> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5796815/
<diplo> You know I'm going to go to work tomorrow and do something regrettable now!
<Paladine> popey did you see this? https://www.freelancer.com/projects/Software-Architecture/Chromium-Firefox-branch.html
<Paladine> if you know anyone who fits the bill and might be interested, can you pass them my details?
<ali1234> Azelphur: you want lvm with that
<Azelphur> ali1234: why?
<ali1234> it's software raid basically
<ali1234> if you have two disks, you want it
<Azelphur> oh, right
<Azelphur> ali1234: the problem with that is tha tone of the disks has the data on it
<Azelphur> and I have nowhere to dump 2TB of data.
<Azelphur> my current plan is format 1st to ext4 -> move data onto it, format 2nd to ext4, done
<Paladine> gnite
<Azelphur> ali1234: I'm correct in saying ^, right?
<Azelphur> can't do LVM if I have nowhere temporary to store the data
<ali1234> well you can create a lvm with one drive, copy the files on, then add the second drive
<ali1234> and then expand the partition or whatever
<Azelphur> ali1234: and the benefit of this would be RAID, so protection against drive failure?
<Azelphur> ali1234: if you wanted to walk me through it, I'd be cool with doing it
<ali1234> well you can do whatever you want with it
<ali1234> you can make a 6TB partition if you want
<Azelphur> this is for my fileserver, so it's literally just mass storage
<ali1234> i can't remember how to do it
<Azelphur> it'd be nice to have it all in one partition, that's for sure
<ali1234> it's not hard to do
<ali1234> i followed a guide
<Azelphur> show me what guide you followed? :)
<ali1234> http://tldp.org/HOWTO/LVM-HOWTO/
<ali1234> probably that
<Azelphur> ali1234: raid5 is the sane setup for something like this I think, but you need 3 drives, right?
#ubuntu-uk 2013-06-25
<daftykins> Azelphur: you really don't want to do the minimum disk RAID 5
<Azelphur> yea, I'm just using them as normal drives for now
<Azelphur> maybe if I get a couple more 3TB's I'll do it
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> my 6 x 1TB RAID 5 is so old school now
<daftykins> put that one together late 2007
<daftykins> recently finished a building-to-building network cable to provide a spot for backup drives 'off-site' for a client
<daftykins> took his partners backup drive down there, just a simple 2 x 1TB mirrored WD My Book World Edition II setup
<daftykins> one of the disks died in turning it off and moving it there >_< had to replace it today
<daftykins> over 750 reallocated sectors!
<Azelphur> lol
<daftykins> 2TB and greater disks just take far too long to sort out
<daftykins> roll on being able to get everything flash :D
<Azelphur> moving 2TB of data off a drive over USB... #thingsthatareslow
<Azelphur> USB 2, as well.
<daftykins> ooooouch
<daftykins> how come they're not both hooked up internally?
<Azelphur> daftykins: originally, because I had a case that only had one drive bay
<Azelphur> now, because the USB controller messes with the sector size so this is the only way to get the data off
<daftykins> weird!
<daftykins> alright i'm out nn \o
<knightwise> morning
<popey> hello
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all.
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: You all set for tomorrow evening?
<popey> yeah, whats the plan?
<popey> or is it too early for a "plan"
<TheOpenSourcerer> Probably too early. We are trying to clarify times for a prospect meeting in town tomorrow afternoon. So not sure what time the pub will beckon ;-)
<MartijnVdS> http://ben174.github.io/rikeripsum/
<SuperMatt> morning
<dogmatic69> Installed xbuntu-desktop last night and multi monitors work fine now. idk why unity does not just work
<diplo> Morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
 * DJones waits with baited breath to see what "happy .... day today is"
<popey> JamesTait: slacker!
<DJones> popey: It'll probably turn out to be happy slackware day
<popey> â»
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: multi monitors works for you in xfce but not unity? Peculiar, I didn't think XFCE did multi-monitor
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: ye, pretty much out the box
<MartijnVdS> DJones: Sweetmorn, Confusion 30, Year of Our Lady of Discord 3179
<MartijnVdS> ?
<popey> pick your own â»  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/June_25
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Catfish_Day
<DJones> MartijnVdS: I'll go with with that one
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: not with 3+ monitors anyway
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: I've only ever tried it with two
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: http://askubuntu.com/a/145501/12306
<MartijnVdS> DJones: also, 7 Messidor CCXXI
<TheOpenSourcerer> Gosh - I didn't know Farrah Fawcet had died.
<dogmatic69> ye, 2 works fine.
<dogmatic69> xfce is pretty cool and much easier on the ram / cpu
<BigRedS> Hah, I don't think I ever even found the right dialogue box to do it with
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: http://deathlist.net/ :)
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: it is also very very 1997 :)
<BigRedS> (which, yes, might be a plus side :) )
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: what's wrong with 1997? :)
<BigRedS> Bah. Trust the perl guy to come out with that ;)_
<JamesTait> Today is apparently "Please take my kids to work day", but I have my kids at work with me every day, so it didn't seem noteworthy. ;)
<MartijnVdS> haha :)
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: only thing I am missing is the unity hud thing
<BigRedS> Ah, I always disabled that 'cause I'm too retarded to use both that *and* terminator's alt+arrow-key control
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: another plus!
<dogmatic69> but just installed synapse which seems to be quite good and similar
<dogmatic69> also sudo apt-get install xbuntu-desktop and you can still have unity. That is quite nice
<MooDoo> morning all
<dogmatic69> switch between them.
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: how else would you do it?
<dogmatic69> install xbuntu from scratch...
<BigRedS> oh
<BigRedS> Lots of people seem to find installing from scratch a hugely less jarring experience than I do
<dogmatic69> I had downloaded the install for a few other distros but then just thought I would give a new wm a go
<BigRedS> yeah, I had another go through most of the *-desktops a few weeks ago. Since I really like Gnome but they seem intent on changing that
<diplo> I've not tried another DE for yonks
<BigRedS> I tried "all of them" back when the end of Gnome 2.x was first mooted
<popey> i tried GNOME Shell for a day last week
<BigRedS> I tried KDE for two days last week
 * AlanBell is using unity in Saucy and it is OK
<diplo> I've got used to unity, I can't remember when i clicked an icon on the side bar though
<dogmatic69> ha, the xfce lock screen is very windows 95
<SuperMatt> xfce is very windows 95
<SuperMatt> even MS have realised that the 95 interface isn't right anymore. I wish people would just let go
<Laney> why do you care if people want to use it?
<BigRedS> Yeah, if we go down the route of banning theoretically bad UIs we end up with, uh, no Linux desktop
<dogmatic69> terminal is so 1980's... people still use that
<BigRedS> mine's transparent
<BigRedS> that's very 2008
<awilkins> Mine has a background image of tiled BBC Micro Owls
<awilkins> That's 80s with an 80s twist
<awilkins> Terminal is actually the interface of the future - today
<popey> OWLS!
<awilkins> Windowed UIs are such a step back in terms of re-use and interoperability between programs
<awilkins> Actually, there's an idea that's popped into my head again for the second time this week - input and output streams for windowed apps
<awilkins> Or does dbus fill this niche?
<awilkins> Anyway, maybe add a desktop manager feature that lets you draw stream connectors between windows
<BigRedS> that sounds like more work than I could be arsed with
<BigRedS> I am, generally, quite lazy though
<awilkins> Well, for us guys familiar with the CLI shell, it would be a PITA
<awilkins> Doesn't apple have something like that though - some kind of CLI pipeline GUI
<awilkins> You could maybe have a task switcher kind of thing that showed you a processing pipeline and the windows it was made of and let you switch left and right along the stream
<Paladine> hey popey, if you are here, do me a favour and don't respond to my stalker, he harasses everyone I tweet, if you respond he gets worse
<mungbean> :-|
<popey> hah
<mungbean> does he have a name?
<popey> he doesn't seem like a stalker
<mungbean> is it ....is it.. MooDoo ?
<mungbean> ;)
<MooDoo> I don't stalk people....much
<popey> also, your freelancer project seems like massive overkill
<mungbean> (nothing personal, random name)
<popey> https://www.freelancer.com/projects/Software-Architecture/Chromium-Firefox-branch-repost.html
<MooDoo> mungbean: i know :D
<Paladine> popey, yeah he is, he has been stalking me for years, check his time-line it is a one stop attack shop against me and my work, and full of lies and quotes completely out of context
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<popey> yeah, i read most of it last night
<popey> was entertaining bed time reading
<diplo> Guys, printing from a linux server to a windows machine 7 or 8 with permissions on the printer set to everyone still requires authing
<diplo> Anyone know a quick way round that before I get googling again.. looked a week or so ago but the issue has arisen again
<diplo> Worked fine on XP machines, so I'm sure it's a permissions thing but haven't found a good answer yet
<diplo> Quick outlay of our system, we have a text based system that normally lp prints to dedicated printers at branches, our customer VPN's in and wants to print at home over here USB printer, we have a fixed  IP on the machine and a share on the printer which can be seen from the server but not accessed properly
<Paladine> he has an issue because I left NoDPI and joined Privacy International
<Paladine> he cost me a job about a month ago as director of a software company who were going to develop a bunch of privacy solutions I had designed, because he started harassing -all- their directors
<Paladine> and fabricating stuff about their company
<awilkins> Sounds like a giant asshat
<Paladine> yeah he is
<Paladine> I have had to put up with his crap since early 2009
<Paladine> I try to ignore him but he has a habit of harassing my the people I talk to on Twitter
<awilkins> Send his details to Anonymous (muahahahahah)
<popey> i dont feel harrassed fwiw
<Paladine> and now his partner in crime has chirped up too
<popey> Are they like Starsky and Hutch?
<Paladine> Kenturtleglue is even worse
<popey> Or more like Cagney and Lacey?
<Paladine> I banned him from NoDPI in the early days back in 2008 because he was posting porn and attacking everyone because he didn't get his own way
<Paladine> more like tweedle-dum and tweedle-dee
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<Paladine> also popey, why is the freelancer post overkill?  I need a custom build of chromium and firefox and I don't have the time to familiarise myself with the codebases
<popey> why custom build at all, why not just fiddle the config so it doesn't do the things you don't want it to do
<popey> I didn't think it needed a whole rebuild just for that
<Paladine> because I want to make the build publicly available under the brand Private Browser
<Paladine> I need it to turn on a bunch of settings by default, change startpage and search providers, include a couple of addons
<Paladine> I want to offer both chromium core and firefox core to people so they don't have to choose between their favourite browsers
<popey> how will you keep them updated?
<mungbean> i wouldn't trust a "private browser" from a 3rd party
<Paladine> the project will be maintained once it is up and running I will be able to secure enough funding to keep it running
<mungbean> firefox + extensions is sufficient, and mozilla have my trust
<mungbean> random person on internet != trustworthy with my browser source code
<Paladine> that is entirely up to you mungbean but a: I am not "random person" I am a very well known privacy advocate (you just don't know me) and b: lots of people have told me they would like the solution I am trying to offer
<popey> indeed, i trust the people who manage the ubuntu archive, and the upstream developers
<popey> in the context of mozilla and chromium, you are random person on the internet
<popey> you don't have commit rights to either project
<popey> so you're the same class as everyone else
<awilkins> And that trust is enforced by the signatures on the package archives
<Paladine> I don't need commit rights, I can branch them perfectly legally
<popey> no matter what your linkedin profile says
<popey> I didn't say anything about legality
<popey> I'm talking involvement, reputation and community standing for either project (firefox and chromium)
<Paladine> as I said, I am not forcing this on anyone, you are welcome to not use the build, but a lot of people do want it, people's opinions are valid on all sides
<popey> Mind you that said people download all kinds of random binaries and install them, have done for years
<Paladine> I know a lot of people in my field who are unhappy with the Mozilla/Google relationship
<mungbean> the sort of people who want "private browser" might have a heightened awareness of trusted authors
<mungbean> Paladine: have you found any code to suggest any wrong doing?
<Paladine> it isn't about wrong doing
<Paladine> I never suggested for one second there was any wrong doing
<mungbean> < Paladine> I know a lot of people in my field who are unhappy with the Mozilla/Google relationship
<Paladine> I have a close relationship with Mozilla
<Paladine> not being happy with a relationship is not the same as saying there is wqrong doing
<mungbean> there is a suggestion of wrongdoing there
<Paladine> a lot of people simply do not like google
<Paladine> google are disliked in privacy circles because they keep breaking the law
<BigRedS> That freelancer page doesn't exist apparently
<Paladine> and running havoc on people's privacy
<Paladine> yeah the stupid system is autodeleting them for some reason
<davmor2> Morning all
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<bigcalm> Bit early for you isn't it?
<davmor2> bigcalm: 9 minutes
<ali1234> 800000 files processed
<BigRedS> that's a suspiciously round number
<ali1234> Paladine: how does startpage conduct google searches on behalf of their users without getting every single one of their servers banned?
<ali1234> BigRedS: well, i rounded it
<ali1234> bottom line is it's done 50%
<popey> what are you "processing"?
<popey> out of interest
<ali1234> my old files
<ali1234> from yesterday, remember?
<popey> no â»
<ali1234> oh maybe you weren't here
<popey> i may or may not have been paying attention
<mungbean> when we were discussing ncdu
<ali1234> you know when you make a new homedirectory and rename the old one "old" and put it inside the old "old" and then after several years you have "old/old/old/old/old"
<popey> yes â»
<ali1234> well my "old" directory is now 150GB/1.5M files
<popey> hah
<ali1234> so i am building a database with md5sum and mimetype and keywords from libextract
<popey> to dedupe?
<mungbean> sure there's an app for that
<Paladine> ali - they have a license from Google
<ali1234> popey: to dedupe and also search it
<ali1234> Paladine: i see thanks
<mungbean> if a service section in nagios object config file doesn't have a contact stated, (but is stated for services elsewhere in teh file), who does it used for notifications?
<BigRedS> does the host have a contact?
<BigRedS> actually, this probably varies by version and shamefully I'm still on 1.x
<mungbean> no
<mungbean> ah, inherits "linux-server" template...will check
<mungbean> which doesn't seem to exist
<diplo> mungbean: linux-server is a default 1
<diplo> 1= one :)
<diplo> BigRedS: 1 ?!??!!?!?
<mungbean> 	register			0		; DONT REGISTER THIS DEFINITION - ITS NOT A REAL HOST, JUST A TEMPLATE!
<BigRedS> diplo: yeah
<diplo> :)
<diplo> mungbean: You can still use them, or you can copy and call it something else if you prefer, I used the default ones quite a bit
<BigRedS> diplo: it's a really scary thing to migrate
<mungbean> i have 2 groups of servers
<mungbean> group1 -> email admins
<mungbean> group2 -> email otheradmins
<diplo> BigRedS: I bet it is, I started on 3 I think so never had the joy
<diplo> So in your template you create linux-servers1 and 2 and in the template define the contact you want, then in the hosts add them to the particular group
<mungbean> yes,
<mungbean> thats what i just did :D
<mungbean> $previousadmin had not done it
<mungbean> instead every service had a contact_groups line
<mungbean> except only half of them did actually
<mungbean> one of these days i'm gonna set up some proper performance monitoring
<andylockran> silly question; if I can't traceroute an IP, does that mean I don't have a route to it?
<andylockran> traceroute 212.187.206.45
<bigcalm> Not really, the end point might have ping blocked. How far can you get?
 * bigcalm hugs mtr
 * popey also hugs mtr
<bigcalm> I'm not seeing any packet loss
<bigcalm> Looking at mtr, I have a route to that IP address. But it isn't responding to pings
<popey> it fails at the last hop for me
<mungbean> tcptraceroute
<mungbean> regular traceroute is udp
<andylockran> the endpoint probably has ping blocked
<BigRedS> yeah, traceroute traffic is always the first dropped when a switch is busy, too
<andylockran> thanks guys for your help
<mungbean> i *hate* that when you click refresh on a nagios page, it kicks you back to the home screen
<directhex> i hate nagios
<andylockran> I like opsview
<directhex> i like big butts and i cannot lie
<dwatkins> I like munin.
<bigcalm> Fruit flies like a banana
<diplo> mungbean: You a chrome/chromium user ?
<diplo> If so you can right click and Reload Frame
<BigRedS> firefox does same
<BigRedS> but I always remember once I've already f5ed
<diplo> Hmm, didn't see it last time.
<BigRedS> ah, thinking about it, it might not...
<BigRedS> I use a Firefox plugin which links us straight to that frame
<czajkowski> aloha
<BigRedS> Good Morning!
<mungbean> hmmm generic_service seems to overwrite contact settings for the host template
<davmor2> czajkowski: prodington prod with a prodity prod
<MooDoo> hello davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: 'ow am ya mukka
<MooDoo> :d
<davmor2> MooDoo: that bad
<MooDoo> it's not too bad
 * czajkowski tickles davmor2 
 * davmor2 hugs czajkowski as he knows how much it annoys her 
<MooDoo> davmor2: you know czajkowski prefers being stabbed.
<davmor2> MooDoo: you'll be on #naughtystep faster than your head can spin
<dwatkins> [ you are now leaving #ubuntu-uk and being forcibly redirected to #naughtystep due to your being naughty] - like this? ;)
<MooDoo> lo
<MooDoo> lol
<MooDoo> i'm in/on #naughtystep
<mungbean> any recommendations on how i can examine if a mutlithreaded process is working efficiently?
<mungbean> top and pressing 1 is about as far as i've got
<directhex> mungbean, you'd need a decent profiler for that
<dwatkins> strace might help, mungbean - you can have it follow separate processes, iirc
<mungbean> its a large application
<mungbean> user is complaining its running slower than the old server
<mungbean> frequently seeing lots of cores getting used though
<dwatkins> there's also 'sar' (system activity reporter) although that's more about the general server health - install 'sysstat' for that
<dwatkins> another option is to install 'munin' and look at the graphs, note that it has two parts, munin-node (for clients) and munin (for the server), or you can install both on a single machine and have it report to itself\
<mungbean> thanks, i may consider that
<mungbean> its on a server thought so hmmmm
<dwatkins> I have munin on my server as well as sysstat reporting the kernel's stats
<mgdm> htop can be a little more enlightening than top
<mungbean> are you watching my screen :P
<mungbean> just installed it
<mungbean> it certainly is nicer
<mungbean> had to use EPEL..
<mgdm> last time I moved an app between servers it turned out that rverse DNS wasn't set up right and that made a bunch of network calls take ages
<mungbean> i'm using stata MP
<dwatkins> http://edinburgh.piku.org.uk/munin/ for an example of munin
<dwatkins> I should probably connect my other hard drives back up again.
 * bigcalm kicks Spotify
<bigcalm> Is it working for anybody?
<Laney> john lewis gave me a delivery window of 2pm-9pm
<Laney> grr
<diplo> Migght have to try munin myself
<Laney> spotify> yes, using it via the web player atm
<Laney> the client has been borked on saucy for me since the start
<bigcalm> The client is fine for me, I meant the service with the client
<mgdm> bigcalm: it's working for me
<bigcalm> Boo
<bigcalm> Nope, not working for me. Says I'm offline
<bigcalm> Time for some sound cloud
<bigcalm> Pleasing that my sound cloud set downloader still works. PHP 'n all. I shall go to hell I know
 * dwatkins notes that people are still looking at his munin installation
<mungbean> my desktop PC feels slower when i can hear the disk
<awilkins_> Do you remember the times of Windows 3.11 when the disks were really noisy
<awilkins_> This is one reason you'd associate disk noise with sloth
<awilkins_> Those old systems use to page to disk all the time
<mgdm> I associate disk noise with slow machiens because disks are slow :-)
 * mgdm pats his SSDs
<mungbean> but my machine is actually running slothfully
<mungbean> few seconds to scroll etc
<mungbean> scroll...chug...
<mungbean> about:memory always shags ff
<awilkins_> Probably has to page all that RAM back off the disk to examine it
<mungbean> 30+ tabs
<Laney> bah
<Laney> The delivery still hasn't come
<Laney> trapped
<daftykins> :(
<daftykins> been lurking at home waiting for something?
<Laney> well I work from home but I'd probably have gone out at 6 otherwise
<Laney> the window is up to 9pm ...
<popey> leave a note on the door "Deliver to popey"
<daftykins> i'm awaiting LCD attempt 2 for a friends sisters laptop that got sat on / similar
<daftykins> the first one had all the funky colours, so the ebay seller believes a 'firmware updated' model will work
<daftykins> i'm not holding my breath
<Laney> coming in 30 minutes ...
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> is it something exciting?
<Laney> a sexy pink armchair
<daftykins> serious?
<Laney> very
<Laney> http://www.johnlewis.com/john-lewis-sullivan-chair-plain-pink/p551464
<pr0ph3t1> hi all
<pr0ph3t1> has anyone else got the cryptswap problem? It is not found at startup and it asks if I want to mount it manually
<popey> i have had that in the past, yes
<pr0ph3t1> I still have it on Saucy though
<pr0ph3t1> I'm reporting it on launchpad Bug #798086 as it seems it has not been solved completely yet
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 798086 in linux (Ubuntu) "Occasional "The disk drive for /dev/mapper/cryptswap1 is not ready yet or not present" on system startup" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/798086
<pr0ph3t1> I always forget how to use grep though
<pr0ph3t1> It doesn't give errors in dmesg, is that normal?
<daftykins> Laney: interesting
<pr0ph3t1> exit
<pr0ph3t1> re all
<mungbean> hmmm https://bugs.launchpad.net/lightread/+bug/1155251/comments/7
<lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 1155251 in Lightread "Google Reader close" [Critical,Confirmed]
<Laney> daftykins: http://ubuntuone.com/3lIEEKDe2CsYtFpjw374RL
<Laney> ohhhhhhh yeahhhhhhh
<brobostigon> it does seems somewhat obvious, that some of the children they are showing on "child genius" on itv1, are definatly aspies.
<popey> Laney: that has almost exactly 100% too many cushions
<popey> No, wait. Exactly 100%
<Laney> no
<Laney> you are incorrect
<popey> Well that's never happened before.
<Laney> s'alright, you'll recover
<Laney> (but the internet never forgets)
<brobostigon> ch4, sorry.
<jacobw_> I asked the internet, and it said popey's never been wrong before
<brobostigon> lol
<Laney> quick, add it to his wikipedia page
<popey> wait, what, I have a wikipedia page?
<brobostigon> nobodies perfect
<jacobw_> Nobody's perfect
<brobostigon> thats it.
<Laney> My body's perfect
 * Laney schwing
<mungbean> thats filmed outside my room at work
<mungbean> im probably on it , twatting them as i run for the train
<popey> is it whiskey O'clock?
<mungbean> "you can memorise a whole pack of cards. congrats, your best friend will live inside minecraft
<mungbean> and you might become a brilliant programmer
<mungbean> and live in a basement
<popey> jcm was a child prodigy if I recall. and despite being a bit odd, he's got a pretty normal social life â»
<popey> (I am sure he doesn't mind being described as a bit odd)
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: memorising a pack of cards is useful.. read cryptonomicon ;)
<mgdm> popey: it's whisky o'clock here
<popey> WIN!
<mgdm> MartijnVdS: rom what I remember of that book memorising the deck wasn't a requirement
<popey> father in law gave me a bottle at the weekend
<mungbean> my son has memorised the whole gruffalo book and others word for word, its worrying but hopefully normal
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: it helps though
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: geek parents -> geek kid
<mungbean> my wife is the geek in disguise
<mungbean> i'm normal  ... honest
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: Suuuure :)
<mungbean> says the guy who is irc'ing while paiting a spitfire
<popey> hmm. i appear to not own a single whiskey glass
 * popey puts one on his wishlist
<mgdm> I got two as blaggage from a conference I ran
<mgdm> (called Whisky Web, oddly enough)
<mungbean> popey: eat a jar of nutella
<mungbean> wash the jar
<mungbean> perfect  size
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://www.nutella.nl/nl/producten/200g
<MartijnVdS> I was just about to link that :)
<mungbean> heh
<mgdm> hehe
<popey> !
<mungbean> discovered by accident
 * mgdm remembers that for the future, but will hand the Nutella for his gf to dispose of
<mgdm> can't stand the stuff
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nutella-Hazelnut-Spread-200-Pack/dp/B007XR7DW6/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1372192575&sr=8-5&keywords=nutella
<mungbean> washed in the dishwasher , found a  nice glass
<popey> hmmm
<popey> overkill
<popey> "(Pack of 15)"
<MartijnVdS> pack of 15, but no "Subscription" option?
<brobostigon> beer number one of the day and the last, wow.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: recovering alcoholic? :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: nah, just being careful, having a total break up and breakdown, caustiousness is the best.
<mungbean> havent had beer in 2013
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: but you had a kid instead
<mungbean> i had baileys and port
<brobostigon> there you go, alchohol.
<mungbean> but i like beer in very small quantities now as it makes me ill
 * MartijnVdS points at http://www.vandestreek-bier.nl/ ;)
<popey> when in Spain I discovered Pedro XimÃ©nez
<popey> because they don't drink port
<mungbean> when you have a 100ml glass you look at it very differently
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: maybe we could ship some, for us to try it ?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I think it's hard to ship alcohol
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: is it ?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: it's expensive at least
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: oh dear. :(
<mungbean> dental hygeinist appt tomorrow :(
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: maybe you could have another england trip, and bring over a few barrels?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: bottles would be easier, barrel connectors aren't really standard
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: good point,
 * brobostigon might have to visit the netherlands then.
<MartijnVdS> +1
<brobostigon> +1
<brobostigon> how about a meetup nederlandishe beere.
<MartijnVdS> I might know a place that has a few kinds of beer to trey
<MartijnVdS> try*
<brobostigon> :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: https://plus.google.com/105345267335170512506/about?gl=NL&hl=en-NL
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: intersting opening times.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: it's a store, not a pub
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: that's next door ;)
<daftykins> Laney: how rather bright!
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah, i see, :)
<MartijnVdS> )o
<MartijnVdS> O'Reilly's
<brobostigon> ?
<MartijnVdS> that's the pub
<MartijnVdS> they say it's Irish
<brobostigon> lol.
<Azelphur> sigh, phone lines gone down :(
<Azelphur> wish I could make dd-wrt tether to my android phone
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: openwrt could do it
<Azelphur> interesting :)
<Azelphur> my routers apparently supported by openwrt too now
<daftykins> :o
<MartijnVdS> you might need a daemon to "fix" bridging (wifi clients use packets with too few mac address fields, or something)
<Azelphur> hehe
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: http://wiki.openwrt.org/doc/recipes/relayclient
<brobostigon> beer and crinkly crisps, what more can you ask for.
<MartijnVdS> pizza
<brobostigon> hefe-weizen*
<brobostigon> margerhita with gpats cheese, yes, yummy,
<daftykins> a magic cure to automatically teleport all woodworm in my house to another country would be very welcome
<brobostigon> goats*
<daftykins> :D
<awilkins> Whisky and a lapful of warm sunite arker
<brobostigon> QI bbc2, :)
<MartijnVdS> new or old?
<MartijnVdS> old :(
<brobostigon> just looking.
<popey> Azelphur: i have setup openwrt to work with a 3g dongle, much the same as tethering to a phone
<brobostigon> oh well, might be th best thing on.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: the Route Masters program that just finished looks interesting though
<popey> works well
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i missed that.
<daftykins> Azelphur: does it go as in no dial tone at all? seems a bit major
<Azelphur> daftykins: yup, seems like no power is being sent down the line, everything is totally dead.
<Azelphur> popey: cool, doesn't that require wxdial or something with username/password info?
<brobostigon> hislop, bbc4, :)
<Azelphur> android phone tethering is plug n play
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: already seen that one too :)
<MartijnVdS> Zzz time here
<daftykins> nn sir o/
<popey> Azelphur: there's a bit of config, not hard, its well documented
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: me also, i am cluthing straws.
<Azelphur> cool
<brobostigon> clutching*
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: you could view some photos ;) https://plus.google.com/photos/100189567362844794281/albums/5893513443231568561
<Azelphur> maybe I'll go down that route sometime, for now I wouldn't mind some way of getting my server on the LAN so I can watch some movies while I wait this out :P
<Azelphur> I got my phone plugged in on USB for internet, as soon as I plug the ethernet in, everything tries to use the ethernet for internet. :(
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: thats a god picture of the river, with the overhanging trees.
<brobostigon> good*
<daftykins> Azelphur: as in for an option besides going to use the TV?
<daftykins> (on the media front)
<Azelphur> daftykins: haha, yea, mainly after trying to get access to my NAS
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: tnx :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: :) youre welcome.
<Azelphur> shame I only have one USB wifi adapter, or I'd just put everything on wifi for a bit, problem solved.
<^2fC> Evenings :)
<^2fC> Has anyone done the CCNA exam ?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: hence my OpenWRT suggestion ;)
<Azelphur> yea :)
<daftykins> Azelphur: if you dropped gateway and DNS config from your wired interface, would programs stop messing up (i assumed your programs stop taking to the tethered phone when you connect network is what you were saying)
<Azelphur> daftykins: sounds about right, how would I do that? :P
<daftykins> hrmm, is your deskie acting as a DHCP client?
<Azelphur> yes
<daftykins> killing whatever network manager you have and setting the interface statically with IP + netmask alone might work
<daftykins> sudo ifconfig eth0 <IP> netmask <mask>
<daftykins> that should be enough to give IP based network connectivity to media whilst still preferring the tether
<daftykins> although maybe the network manager is handling the tether intelligence, heh :(
<Azelphur> what mask should I set, 255.255.255.0?
<daftykins> yip for a standard class C
<Azelphur> will give it a shot :)
<ali12341> "as soon as I plug the ethernet in, everything tries to use the ethernet for internet" <- that's network manager for you
<ali12341> oh wow they added mcpixel to the latest HiB
<ali12341> what did i say the other day?
<Azelphur> nope, that didn't work
<Azelphur> at least, not just setting the netmask
<ali12341> what are you trying to do?
<daftykins> you set IP and netmask right?
<daftykins> ali12341: he wants to gain access to his NAS at the same time as remain tethered over his phone
<Azelphur> oops
<ali12341> ok
<daftykins> i thought that setting a static IP with no route and no DNS might work
<ali12341> no, network manager will ifdown/ifup on cable connect even if it is configured static
<ali12341> this will wipe out any default route etc
<Azelphur> nope, did sudo ifconfig eth0 192.168.1.10 netmask 255.255.255.0
<ali12341> there is a way to do it
<Azelphur> and still routes through the ethernet
<Azelphur> ah
<ali12341> what you must do is think like network manager designer
<ali12341> they are designing it for people who have no idea what they are doing so pretend that's you
<Azelphur> don't have to pretend \m/
<ali12341> what you need to do is do connection sharing and share the mobile connection to the LAN connection
<daftykins> does the tether stop working as soon as network manager is stopped?
<ali12341> then it will allow you to be connected to both at once (obviously, or else it wouldn't work)
<Azelphur> daftykins: will give that a go and see :)
<Azelphur> ali12341: how would that work though, then I'd have no "busted internet" connection
<ali12341> you go to the mobile connection in network manager and select "shared to other computers"
<ali12341> that's it
<ali12341> oh and put a switch in between your computer and the nas so that you don't get spurious cable interrupts when power cycling
<Azelphur> daftykins: nope, kill network manager = disconnect :P
<daftykins> boo
<ali12341> what are you doing this for anyway?
<daftykins> 1) his ISP service is down 2) he wants to stay online and network with his media
<ali12341> your ISP is down?
<ali12341> like, the whole thing?
<daftykins> *service*
<daftykins> key word.
<Azelphur> ali12341: phone line is down, dead phone line, the works. :(
<ali12341> well, do the connection sharing thing
<Azelphur> yea I'm working on that now, just pulled my switch out of a box :)
<ali12341> if you're not reseting the NAS you don't need the switch
<Azelphur> only got one port on my laptop, 3 devices to connect
<ali12341> well how do you connect them normally?
<Azelphur> ethernet into the router
<daftykins> in my new place i need more than my 8 port gigabit switch :(
<ali12341> so do that?
<Azelphur> ali12341: the router has no connection...because the phone line is down?
<ali12341> you should not rewire anything
<daftykins> Azelphur: silly me, i wonder if statically configuring *with* network manager would stop it
<ali12341> it doesn't matter, ethernet switches don't work like that
<Azelphur> you're not even making any sense lol
<ali12341> there is no reason at all to reconfigure anything
<daftykins> his over-enthusiasm gets the better of him :(
<Azelphur> indeed :P
<ali12341> when you select connection sharing ont he mobile connection it will automatically ignore the default route on eth0
<ali12341> in fact it will ignore the dhcp completely
<Azelphur> ali12341: where's connection sharing at?
<Azelphur> ah, method: shared to other computers.
<daftykins> technically that's reconfiguring ;)
<ali12341> i hope everything on your network is configured for dhcp and avahi
<daftykins> it's all about static
<Azelphur> yea it is :)
<Azelphur> I allocate the static IPs from my router
<popey> ooh, ali12341 is the wrong colour
<popey> oh, extra 1
<ali12341> everything is going to change ip then
<Azelphur> ali12341: what do I have to set in here on the two connections? I set USB to Shared to other computers
<Azelphur> but what about the ethernet?
<ali12341> just leave it
<Azelphur> if I leave it, when I connect it, I loose connection with everything else as normal
<ali12341> turn off dhcp on the router
<Azelphur> k
<ali12341> power cycle everything
<daftykins> or just use the switch so you don't have to reconfigure
<daftykins> i love how much reconfiguring ali's no-config necessary method involves :(
<daftykins> ;)
<ali12341> well, you don't have to change any ip addresses, or try to fight network manager
<ali12341> and you don't have to mess about with any cables
<daftykins> i'll give you that the use-case is rare
<TheProphet[S]> clear
<Azelphur> ali12341: seems like the htpc isn't getting an IP assigned by DHCP, you sure I don't need to do anything with eth1 on my PC for this?
<ali1234> eth1?
<Azelphur> eth0*
<ali1234> why is it eth1?
<ali1234> you don't need to do anything, no
<ali1234> unless it is broken
<daftykins> lol
<ali1234> if it is broken, you are screwed
<Azelphur> ali1234: well, I have USB set to shared to other computers, ethernet is currently set to the default, which is automatic (dhcp)
<Azelphur> and my fileserver is connected to eth0 on my PC
<Azelphur> and not getting given an IP
<ali1234> what, directly?
<Azelphur> ali1234: via a switch
<ali1234> oh hang on, you're supposed to set the eth0 to shared, and the USB you just leave alone
<Azelphur> lol
 * Azelphur sets usb back to automatic (dhcp)
<Azelphur> ali1234: works \o/
<daftykins> dun-dun-duuuuun
<TheProphet[S]> anyone uses text based irc clients anymore?
<Azelphur> now to set my laptop up to nudge me when the normal connection comes up, and hopefully good to go :)
<brobostigon> yes, irssi
<TheProphet[S]> brobostigon have you heard someone is working on fixing BitchX?
<TheProphet[S]> I'm using it now although it takes some time getting used to I guess
<brobostigon> ohwell, he left.
<brobostigon> no, is the answer to your question, TheProphet[S]
<TheProphet[S]> brobostigon you kind of lost me there, I'm trying to get used to this text based client
<TheProphet[S]> and the chat log only gets to 21:03 hours :-S
<brobostigon> TheProphet[S]: a text based client, takes no getting used to, other than using your keyboard, and understanding terminal windows than gui ones.
<ali1234> and memorizing all the silly commands like /4329817
<brobostigon>  /win 1/2/3 etc.
<TheProphet[S]> brobostigon sure but I needed to configure SASL auto connection and now the client connects to freenode automatically at startup and joins ubuntu-uk, at least it should do. Oh and identifies my nick as well
<brobostigon> TheProphet[S]: yes, you can tell irssi to do all those inthings, or not.
<TheProphet[S]> I tend to log on to irc just to chat with you guys, regarding ubuntu
<TheProphet[S]> so to set it all up so that it connects straight here is quite useful
<TheProphet[S]> now I'm working out (reading) what all these symbols mean here
<TheProphet[S]> from lynx!
<Azelphur> there we go, set my laptop up with a cron job to ping me if my internet comes back up
<TheProphet[S]> so to run text based programs on ubuntu is easy if you do it using Terminal, but without X you would have to run lynx on one tty and bitchx on another or you wouldn't be able to do two things at once, split windows etc
<hamitron> screen is nice
<TheProphet[S]> hamitron thanks!
<TheProphet[S]> and mutt as well! You can do a lot without X, I didn't realise
<dogmatic69> is it correct that I can not name a folder and file the same?
<hamitron> yeh, because everything is a file
<dogmatic69> ah ok
<dogmatic69> dumb torrent download
<dogmatic69> foo.iso is in foo.iso
<dogmatic69> cant even over write it
<hamitron> erm, a file inside a folder of the same name should be ok
<dogmatic69> nope, it would not allow. Had to remove the .iso on the folder
<dogmatic69> hamitron: http://bin.cakephp.org/view/1245783098
<dogmatic69> I guess its assuming I mean move file xyz into folder abc
<daftykins> when does this situation ever come up :(
<dogmatic69> obviously some check like if (is folder) {into} else {overwrite}
<hamitron> daftykins, haha, whenever someone is looking for a problem
<hamitron> ;)
<dogmatic69> daftykins: when you download a torrent that is in a folder for some reason that should have just been a file
<dogmatic69> openSuse torrent...
<hamitron> I still can't see why a torrent would tbh
<hamitron> unless you are wanting to move the download location
<dogmatic69> ye, idk why its in a folder. All the others were plain .iso files
<dogmatic69> I could understand if the torrent is 50 files or something
<hamitron> I just wish i could give up email and web browsers
<hamitron> :/
<dogmatic69> hamitron: maybe just HTML?
<hamitron> well, plain HTML webpages would be ok I suppose
<hamitron> but heck, firefox is taking nearly 4GB memory atm
<hamitron> plus 2 cores of my cpu
<daftykins> nasty
<dogmatic69> I got chrome at around 4GB also
<daftykins> i don't understand why it sucks so hard on Linux, yet i've never had issues with it on Windows
<hamitron> didn't update to a quad core cpu, to have firefox taking the 2 extra cores ;)
<dogmatic69> how you see what cpu an app is using?
<hamitron> I should maybe just run firefox remotely on a single core machine, that will stop it
<hamitron> top
<hamitron> probably in a gui somewhere, but dunno where
<daftykins> used to be gnome-system-monitor
<daftykins> so maybe it's still called the system monitor for the GUI one
<daftykins> although amusingly the GUI one actually caused more loads by itself :(
<dogmatic69> ye, how you see 'two of my cores'
<dogmatic69> or is that a guesstimate
<hamitron> guesstimate
<dogmatic69> right
<dogmatic69> chrome sitting at only 5% cpu. like 40 tabs open :D
<hamitron> firefox is fine till it breaks
<dogmatic69> I cant handle the 25 minute delay for firebug to open
<hamitron> and chrome is fine until you open loads of tabs, and each tab takes x resources
<hamitron> my favourite browser is IE, but no linux support
<hamitron> :/
<dogmatic69> wait no more http://www.modern.ie/en-US/virtualization-tools
<hamitron> I'd open that, if firefox was working
<hamitron> ;D
<dogmatic69> lol
<dogmatic69> just download links for free VM's of all IE versions
<hamitron> gonna be moving to windows 8 soon anyway
<hamitron> wanna test how it handles multi-display setups
<dogmatic69> its not to bad imo, limited usage.
<hamitron> from reading, it looks better than windows 7
<dogmatic69> probably better than linux :/
<hamitron> linux handles them perfect tbh
<dogmatic69> ha
<dogmatic69> that is funny after I have spend around 3 days trying to make it work
<hamitron> well, I'm on AMD gpu....
<dogmatic69> I got 3x monitors on 2x GTX 550 Ti's
<dogmatic69> not fun
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> 3 monitors works well on AMD stuff
<dogmatic69> best I have so far is atp-get install xbunut-desktop which fixed most errors
<dogmatic69> but now looks like I am running windows 95
<hamitron> hmmmm
<hamitron> I liked windows 95
<hamitron> ;/
<daftykins> it had a Weezer music video on the disc
<daftykins> you could install, then rock out ;x
<hamitron> and a free game
<hamitron> but I always have felt win95 was the sweet spot for computing
<hamitron> usable for most people, yet reasonable on resources
<TheProphet[S]> hamitron try lynx and mutt
<hamitron> lynx is not great for..... images
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> anyways, I got 8GB memory.... it should handle a web browser imo
<ali1234> i just found a neat python script in my old files
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5800057/
#ubuntu-uk 2013-06-26
<ali1234> i'm down to 30G / 385175 files
<shemeer> hi
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<BigRedS> Good Morning!
<Gary> morning BigRedS
<brobostigon> morning BigRedS and Gary
<knightwise> hey everyone
<brobostigon> morning knightwise
<knightwise> hey bro
<knightwise> how is you !
<brobostigon> knightwise: not so bad but could be better, and you?
<knightwise> doin ok , wish I had some time ni the day where I could actually get work done instead of having to attend meetings
<brobostigon> :) :(
<MooDoo> hello all
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<diplo> Morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Chocolate Pudding Day! :-D
<bigcalm> JamesTait: thanks, I now know what I'll have at the LUG tonight
<JamesTait> \o/
<BigRedS> JamesTait: Aw, I see that just as I get back from the breakfast run
 * BigRedS plans lunch
<knightwise> hey BigRedS
<BigRedS> Morning!
<Azelphur> woo, internet is back, apparently an engineer came out yesterday to connect someone else and felt the desire to disconnect me \o/
<mgdm> "Screw that Azelphur guy, I'm going to mess up his internet, muahahaha"
<Azelphur> mgdm: yup :D
<popey> they do that a lot
<popey> especially virgin
<popey> when they can't find a slot in the cabinet, they just yoink someone else out, happened to us twice
<popey> we got plugged back into someone elses line so our phone number changed
<mgdm> wtf
<popey> i only found out when wifey phoned me from home and i noticed the caller id was wrong
<Laney> if you see inside the cabinets they look pretty chaotic usually
<Laney> pretty sure bodging in the fastest way possible is standard
<popey> it's more prevalent on virgin because most of the engineers are contractors, and paid by number of jobs per day. so are in a hurry to get customer running then leave. they don't want a trip to the exchange to setup a new connection.
<Laney> friend works for a landlord who owns a house which is listed
<Laney> when they got virgin installed the engineers were ordered by their supervisor to bash the cables into the side of the house
<Laney> promptly got bollocked by The Authorities
<Laney> (the engineers initially went on strike but relented)
<popey> heh
<davmor2> morning all
<directhex> popey, http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic
<popey> hah
<Azelphur> directhex: hahaha
<mungbean> dental hygeinist this morning. oh the pain of searing gums :(
<dwatkins> I need to floss more
<mungbean> everyone does
<dwatkins> I did learn recently, however, that flossing need not take ages.
<mungbean> do it on the toilet
<dwatkins> it's like digging the plague out from between the tooth and gum, just one scrape each side of the gap and move on
<mungbean> grim
<dwatkins> none of this sawing motion is necessary unless teeth are particularly close together
<mungbean> mine are very tight fitting
<mungbean> but i use tape instead
<mungbean> hadn't been for 2 or 3 years so much paint required
<popey> paint?
<mungbean> woops, pain
<BigRedS> ah, I wondered if you'd ended up with some back-ally tooth-whitening process
<mungbean> i do have a gold tooth at the back though
<popey> opulent!
<mungbean> didn't really have much choice
<mungbean> pull out or get a crown
<dwatkins> I had to have a molar removed, that was fun.... for varying values of "fun"
<mungbean> had to one above removed
<mungbean> then i got a bonus as a dormant winsdom tooth woke up and replaced it
<mungbean> gmail now warns you of those "i'm on holiday and lost my wallet mails"
<mungbean> and you click to report a compromised acct
<popey> oh nice
<dwdorig> mungbean, Aren't all gmail accounts compromised to the NSA by default, now?
<mungbean> i don't think the NSA ask me to send money to a hotel in the philppines though
<dwdorig> mungbean, That's just what they want you to think.
<mungbean> ok
<dwdorig> mungbean, Also, looks terribly easy to build pencil into an XPI from the source tarball.
<mungbean> with xulrunner built in?
<dwdorig> I'll stare at you blankly at this point. Don't XPI's sort of install into Firefox?
<mungbean> latest pencil not work with FF since v17
<mungbean> you need to include an older xulrunner version
<dwdorig> I always feel like I've missed about 12 versions whenever anyone mentions a Firefox version.
<mungbean> i think latest is 22
<dwdorig> Right, so in that case, no.
<MartijnVdS> http://satwcomic.com/all-just-a-game
<MartijnVdS> popey: ^
<mungbean> its easy to get distracted and do something completely different while waiting for tomcat to start
<advancedgarde> So, I have a USB pen drive running 12.04 that I'm using to fix some HDD's on my home server. I booted into it fine, found my raid array, installed mdadm and mounted the drives. After a reboot, the USBdrive seems to be having trouble booting and falls into busybox.
<advancedgarde> I'm presuming its getting confused about the boot device mid boot but I don't currently have any evidence to support this.
<advancedgarde> If I exit I get a kernel panic. I can reinstall the USB pen drive fresh but was wondering if there was a simple fix.
<BigRedS> what does it say just before dropping into busybox?
<BigRedS> and do you know what parameters the kernel's being passed? What's root set to?
<advancedgarde> BigRedS, you'll have to bear with me, while I'm trying to familiarise myself with Ubuntu this summer, I still consider myself a novice.
<advancedgarde> The message before dropping into busybox is: [drm] Initialised radeon 2.18.0 20080528 for 0000:01:00.0 on minor 0
<advancedgarde> However, just before that I can see some mdadm ish messages.
<advancedgarde> And since installing mdadm was the last thing I did I suspect it is related to that rather than the graphics card.
<advancedgarde> I don't know how to find out what root is set to or how to find out what's being passed to the kernel.
<BigRedS> ah, cool. I can't remember how extensive busybox is
<advancedgarde> It seems fairly basic.
<BigRedS> but you *should* be able to cat /proc/cmdline to see how the kernel was invoked. One part of it is probably something like  root=/dev/sda  . 'sd' refers basically to SATA and SCSI disks, if you've something like  root=/dev/md1  then it's trying to boot from an md array
<BigRedS> yeah, it's incredibly minimal, which is really handy until you need a thing it hasn't got :)
<advancedgarde> So it appears to be trying to boot from /cdrom which is what I would expect - again this is a live cd installed onto a USB.
<advancedgarde> blkid shows the USB as being at /dev/sde1 and this appears to change from boot to boot.
<advancedgarde> Sorry, to clarify, there is no "root=" in cat /proc/cmdline, but a "file=/cdrom"
<BigRedS> ah, cool
<BigRedS> I'd assumed you'd installed it differently... What would be best is to get the error messages that happen just before you're dumped in busybox
<advancedgarde> The message immediately preceding  busybox is: [drm] Initialised radeon 2.18.0 20080528 for 0000:01:00.0 on minor 0
<BigRedS> yeah, there should be ones before that complaining about something
<BigRedS> shift+up might scroll upwards
<advancedgarde> Okay, sorry I see you said error message. I'll take a look.
<BigRedS> Ah, no worries. TBH, thinking about it, boot is one of the more tempermental and irritating bits of linux - you may find it gets frustrating and a new install is more productive than learning to hate it :)
<advancedgarde> I am not able to scroll up. While I'm not certain what I'm looking for: "md127: detected capacity change from 0 to 4000790347776", "md127: unknown partition table", "drm: registered panic notifier"
<advancedgarde> Some messages were omitted.
<advancedgarde> Yup, I'm sure a clean USB live disk install would fix the problem just felt like a bit of a "fix it with a hammer and never know the problem" approach.
<advancedgarde> So, when I have a USB live disk, it boots by copying an instance of the os into ram right? If I install packages and then reboot do these packages get copied back to the USB stick? (As this is what appears to have happened)
<BigRedS> yeah, it's the sort of thing I'd generally advocate - fixing the problem rather than flattening it. But, equally, in your position I'd just redo it :)
<BigRedS> I'm not sure any more, to be honest. I've been puzzled ever since liveCDs moved onto a writeable medium
<BigRedS> probably best to wait for someone who understands livecd/liveusb better than I do :)
<advancedgarde> When I drop out of busy box I get: /init: line352: can't open /root/dev/console: no such file
<advancedgarde> Kernel panic - not syncing: attempting to kill init! exitcode=0x00000200
<advancedgarde> If I remove the raid array it boots. Do you know a way of preventing it from using mdadm during boot?
<advancedgarde> (Assuming that's the issue here)
<advancedgarde> Oh ... According to terminal it's not installed ... Very interesting.
<BigRedS> what's not installed? md?
<BigRedS> there's definitely a kernel arg to get it to not do anything with md, but I can't remember what it is
<advancedgarde> mdadm. Sorry, are mdadm and md different things?
<BigRedS> md is the name for the whole linux-kernel-software-raid thing
<BigRedS> mdadm is a tool used to interfere with them - "md admin" is mnemonic but I don't know if that' the etymology
<advancedgarde> From what I know of mdadm it is.
<advancedgarde> Okay, I understand the difference.
<BigRedS> so, yeah, the two are generally essentially synonymous
<funkyHat> advancedgarde: unless things have changed recently (they probably haven't), the actual live image on the USB stick doesn't get changed, a secondary (unionfs?) image is created on the USB stick and any changes you make to the live FS are stored there. Pretty sure it's safe to delete that file. I think it's in a directory called casper
<funkyHat> It's also possible to disable that persistance if you don't want it... somehow
<funkyHat> persistence
<advancedgarde> I tried adding raid=noautodetect to the boot line but it had no effect. I'll look into removing Casper now.
<advancedgarde> Boot options*
<advancedgarde> Solution: I've switched to a machine that supports hot swapping HDDs and I've connected my raid members after boot.
<funkyHat> I was under the impression that all SATA hosts support hot swapping
<advancedgarde> Well, my other machine didn't seem to like it - perhaps I was missing something but the drives didn't show up after connecting ...
<bashrc> Installing 13.04 onto my netbook...
<funkyHat> advancedgarde: it's entirely possible that my impression is just wrong
<advancedgarde> Is there a way to remove all files within /a that are present in directory /b?
<bashrc> rm -rf b/a/*
<advancedgarde> Thank you ^^
<Seeker`> err
<Seeker`> not sure thats what he really wants?
<Seeker`> Did you mean all files in /a that also appear in directory /b?
<advancedgarde> Yes I did.
<bashrc> that would be harder
<bashrc> I assume it would involve writing a script
<advancedgarde> So, is there a usage of rm at the command line that will instead trash the files?
<Seeker`> what do you mean?
<advancedgarde> So, if I use rm in terminal, the file is removed. If I delete a file in the GUI, it is sent to the trash (which can then be emptied) Is there a command line tool for trashing?
<Seeker`> why would you want to?
<Seeker`> either you want the file or you don't
<Seeker`> you shouldn't use the 'trash' for storing files you might want in a GUI :P
<advancedgarde> Hmm, I'm going to attempt the write a script to remove some files but I'm not confident in my scripting abilities - so a way back would be nice.
<advancedgarde> Trash was my first thought, perhaps a move would be equally good.
<Seeker`> test out the script on files you don't really need
<Seeker`> that, and just echo out the commands when you first write the script so you can see what it would do
<Seeker`> rather than actually doing it
<advancedgarde> Okay.
<dwdorig> advancedgarde, for x in `ls b`; do echo rm a/$x; done
<dwdorig> advancedgarde, And when you're happy that the rm commands look right, then remove the "echo" (which is printing the command instead of executing it)
<dwdorig> advancedgarde, For yuks, you could also do: for x in b/*; do echo rm a/`basename $x`; done
<dwdorig> advancedgarde, The latter should be faster because it's forking fewer processes (by one, so hardly the most exciting optimization in the world).
<dwdorig> advancedgarde, If you really want to use Trash, then you could read the Trash spec and implement it in a shell script - I don't think it's hard, from what I recall. But you could also do "mv" to a temp dir, which'd be *almost* the same effect.
<advancedgarde> Thank you dwdorig, I'm looking over what you've said now ^^. In regards to the trash, I was just curious - mv works just as well for me.
<advancedgarde> there are only ~200 folders to check, so it could be done by hand but I'm trying to expand my knowledge or terminal so ...
<advancedgarde> of*
<dwdorig> advancedgarde, Right, it's not a hard bit of scripting. If you do want to do Trash, the spec is at http://standards.freedesktop.org/trash-spec/trashspec-0.8.html
<dwdorig> advancedgarde, It might even be that one of the xdgtools can do it for you.
<dwdorig> advancedgarde, Oh, you realise that's only checking that the file *name* is identical? If you want to check file contents, you'll want to play with diff and return codes.
<advancedgarde> file name is sufficient for this.
<advancedgarde> But I can see how I could have missed that ;D
<dwdorig> Oh. I'm even credited in the trash spec. I don't remember what I suggested at all.
<Azelphur> For anyone thinking about the move to fibre, quidco are doing Â£70 cashback on plusnet atm, pretty good deal.
<advancedgarde> dwdorig. I've been having some trouble with the script because of spaces in the file name paths.
<advancedgarde> Oh, never mind, I fixed it - just had my quotes in the wrong places.
<ali1234> find -maxdepth 1 -type d -exec echo echo \`find {} -type f \| wc -l \` {}  \;
<ali1234> how do i escape this properly?
<ali1234> find -maxdepth 1 -type d -exec /bin/bash -- echo \`find {} -type f \| wc -l \` {}  \;
<ali1234> /bin/echo: /bin/echo: cannot execute binary file
<mgdm> can you use $() instead of the ``
<mgdm> and escape that?
<ali1234> maybe
<ali1234> the idea, if it isnt clear, is to get each directory in current directory, and then count how many files are in it, then prnt the count and the directory name
<daftykins> i just installed this distro that passes GRUB and looks like it's loading normally, then instead of X i just get the black screen with a solitary [OK] in the upper right - any ideas how to diagnose?
<dwdorig> find -maxdepth 1 -type d -exec echo `find '{}' -type f | wc -l` '{}' \;
<dwdorig> I think.
<ali1234> no matter what, it won't run echo
<mgdm> find . -type d -maxdepth 1 | xargs --replace find {} ...
<dwdorig> But you may prefer xargs.
<mgdm> maybe?
<ali1234> dwdorig: that won't work, the backticks will be handled by bash before find runs
<dwdorig> Right. :-)
<mgdm> I'm not sure what the ... is, yet :)
<dwdorig> ali1234, Oh, yes. Quite.
<dwdorig> Try sh -c ?
<ali1234> close
<ali1234> now t just echos nothing
<dwdorig> So find -maxdepth 1 -type d bash -c 'echo `find {} -type f | wc -l`' '{}' \;
<ali1234> needs moar quotes
<dwdorig> Something like that?
<popey> Evening all
<ali1234> find -maxdepth 1 -type d -exec /bin/bash -c "echo `find {} -type f | wc -l` {}"  \; <- this is really close to working, but now it always counts 0
<dwdorig> for d in `find -maxdepth 1 -type d`; do echo `find '{}' -type f | wc -l` '{} \; done
<ali1234> dwdorig: that fails if any directory name has spaces in it
<mgdm> ali1234: for i in `find . -maxdepth 1 -type d`; do j=$(find $i -maxdepth 1 -type f | wc -l); print $j    $i; done
<mgdm> might need to handle spaces, yes
<mgdm> but that's probably a "$i"
<mgdm> I'm not sure why I mixed $() and ``, but there you go
<dwdorig> mgdm, Doesn't for seperate its args by spaces too? I can never remember.
<mgdm> ah, yes, possibly
<mgdm> there's a find -0 for that purpose, which might not be useful here
<dwdorig> Yes, and xargs does a similar thing if you ask nicely.
<ali1234> find -maxdepth 1 -type d -exec /bin/bash -c "echo \`find {} -type f | wc -l\` {}"  \; <- got it
<dwdorig> Ah, there we go then.
<ali1234> hmm it still fails on spaces
<ali1234> find -maxdepth 1 -type d -exec /bin/bash -c "echo \`find '{}' -type f | wc -l\` {}"  \; | sort -rn
<ali1234> works
<dwdorig> I have to admit, I'm not sure why replacing ' ... ` ` ...' with " ... \` \` ... " would make a difference.
<ali1234> who knows
<dwdorig> Oh, maybe bash sees those too late.
<ali1234> multiple levels of escaping going on
<dwdorig> Anyway, bedtime.
 * dwdorig &
<popey> AlanBell: do you remember the name of the guy on the right (our right)?
<AlanBell> hmm, Robert someone I think
<AlanBell> even the science museum doesn't know https://twitter.com/sciencemuseum/status/350012008055320578
<popey> Richard Holmes
<popey> found it via https://twitter.com/RogerHighfield
<daftykins> were you just at some kind of event?
<popey> recording of The Infinite Monkey Cage
<daftykins> ah
<ali1234> 26GB / 212150 files :)
<AlanBell> popey: the glove lady https://twitter.com/connellycharlie/status/350025374333276161
<daftykins> i find i can't work radio into my life :( it's just not a medium i can pay attention to
 * popey edited wikipedia to update it
 * popey expects the edit to be reverted
<MyUbuntuBlog> Can't live without radio. I need the background noise to help me work
<popey> oh balls, I messed it up
<ali1234> smooth
<daftykins> ah it'd work at an office job i could imagine
<popey> fixed!
<popey> phew
<popey> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Infinite_Monkey_Cage#List_of_episodes
<daftykins> i tend to flip out when i'm places where builder types put the local radio station on
<popey> i dont listen to it on the radio, i listen to it as a podcast
<MyUbuntuBlog> i prefer podcasts
<MyUbuntuBlog> 2 hours of linux outlaws ranting is great
<popey> It is?
<AlanBell> nice one popey :)
<MyUbuntuBlog> followed by a dose of the linux link tech show
<popey> snoozeshow â»
<MyUbuntuBlog> they never really talk about anything on the tech show. it really is just a chit chat
<AlanBell> night all o/
<popey> nn
#ubuntu-uk 2013-06-27
<Azelphur> ali1234: happen to know how LVM fares in the event of disk failure, if I was to combine drives like you recommended the other day?
<ali1234> it depends how you combined them
<Azelphur> I see
<Azelphur> well, I havn't combined them yet, so what are the options?
<ali1234> the usual raid modes
<Azelphur> ali1234: yea, there's like raid stripe, and LVM stripe, right?
<Azelphur> I know raid stripe is one drive failure = all data lost
<Azelphur> so what about the LVM option?
<ali1234> same
<Azelphur> oh, so basically, it doesn't depend
<Azelphur> either way you're fucked.
<Azelphur> xD
<ali1234> well don't use striping then
<Azelphur> does that mean not using LVM?
<ali1234> no
<Azelphur> I like the idea of having one big partition, but not at the expense of loosing all my data if the drive fails
<Azelphur> whats the other option then? :P
<daftykins> you just want standard RAID5/6
<Azelphur> daftykins: I don't think so, I think I want what ali1234 is vaguely hinting at :P
<daftykins> i've no experience with LVM so i don't know how that relates
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> Azelphur: you just have to work for it? ;)
<Azelphur> indeed :)
<daftykins> i am curious what can be 5 or 6 like and still grow
<daftykins> i think my 3ware controller can grow a RAID but it seems risky to me
<daftykins> it tends to be old enough that new disks are needed by the time they're full
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> yea, I mean I will be periodically adding disks to my setup
<daftykins> i give up dropping a grand on disks though =|
<daftykins> so i fear for my data :(
<ali1234> there isn't really a way to have a logical volume across two disks and only lose half the files if one disk breaks
<ali1234> you either have mirroring or parity and lose nothing at the cost of disk space, or you have striping and lose everything
<Azelphur> I see
<Azelphur> I suppose I'll avoid LVM then, and just keep separate drives
<daftykins> as long as you monitor them closely, you can spot impending deaths and transfer off
<popey> Azelphur: i do that with btrfs.
<popey> Azelphur: started with 4 disks in RAID 1 btrfs, then just kept adding disks to grow the volume over time. btrfs allows you to add disks of different sizes too, so I started with 2TB disks but will probably buy 3TB disks and add those in
<popey> morning TheOpenSourcerer
<TheOpenSourcerer> \o popey
<diplo> Morning all
<dwdorig> Ah, netsplits. I'd almost forgotten about them.
<dwdorig> (This like discovering my nickname had "expired", and realising it'd been over a decade since I'd last used IRC properly)
<ali1234> !info gcc-mingw-w64
<lubotu3> gcc-mingw-w64 (source: gcc-mingw-w64 (7)): GNU C compiler for MinGW-w64. In component universe, is extra. Version 4.6.3-8ubuntu1+7 (quantal), package size 1 kB, installed size 21 kB
<AlanBell> morning
<DJones> Morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Industrial Workers of the World Day! :)
 * popey gets back down t'pit
 * DJones lends popey a flat cap and a ferret
<DJones> With you saying "t'pit" reminds of going to a war/prison camp museum (I think somewhere in Yorkshire) a few years back and walking through a mock up of a wartime coal mine & seeing the conditions the miners had, made me appreciate the conditions my grandfather worked in for 50+ years of his life
<DJones> Ah, Eden Camp - That was it
<dwdorig> On the wall in my office, I have the display plans for the "new" pit windings for Kirkby Colliery.
<dwdorig> Dated 1904. Reminds me that despite various job titles, I don't really do "proper" engineering. :-)
<DJones> dwdorig: Was Kirkby COlliery actually in Kirkby, or did that extend eastwards towards Bold & Sutton Manor?
<dwdorig> It's more normally called "Top Pit".
<hoover> Morning folks
<DJones> Hmmh, just realised there is more than one Kirkby, so could be a completely different area
<DJones> If its where I think, its Nottinghamshire rather than Lancashire
<dwdorig> Yes, indeed, there's lots of Kirkbys. This one is in Derbyshire I think.
<DJones> Right, when you said Kirkby I though it was the one at the end of the East Lancs Road between Bootle & ST Helens, there's two former mines at Bold & Sutton Manor there
<dwdorig> Oh, perhaps I'm wrong - Kirkby-in-Ashfield looks like the one, in Nottinghamshire.
<dwdorig> Although that does look like the wrong company. Now I'm confused...
<DJones> Heh, When I looked it up I got to the Kirkby-in-Ashfield one as well
<dwdorig> Ah, no, it's the "top pit" bit that I suspect I've got wrong. But I can't find the company who ran Kirkby Colliery. I'm expecting it to be Butterley.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<DJones> dwdorig: Found this http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details/AssetMain?iaid=C6031760 "Kirkby in Ashfield: Lands west of Kirkby Colliery; Butterley & Co Ltd"
<DJones> Bears out what you were expecting
<dwdorig> DJones, That'll be it, thanks.
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<bigcalm> Morning brobostigon
<neuro> 'ning all
<neuro> today is shaping up to be a pretty cool technological day
<neuro> i found out that paypal can send cash to your bank acct in < 2hrs
<neuro> i found a whole new bunch of albums in my amazon autorip folder
<neuro> i got my digg reader invite through
<neuro> and just for sheer cuteness, check out what happens when you search for "gay" on google!
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm and neuro
<neuro> lo brob
<bigcalm> That is cute
<bigcalm> Amusing that it also returned a load of LGBT dating sites for my area
<bigcalm> Putting geolocation to good use
<popey> the gay thing has been on google for some time
<davmor2> Morning all
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<bigcalm> davmor2: you missed a cracking LUG last night. I didn't get home until 12.30am
<davmor2> bigcalm: and you missed an evening of amusement, befuddlement, misdirection, trickery and magic :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: otherwise known as the reason I couldn't make it :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: ah, we thought you were at Canonical
<bigcalm> davmor2: or, as Jenny called it, Calonical
<Laney> a calonic irrigation
<davmor2> bigcalm: no the magic shop owner has lectures every now and again this time it happened to land on Wednesday, but the guy was absolutely amazing
<davmor2> bigcalm: I've never met anyone quite so deft with cards.
<bigcalm> This auto-rip on amazon is fun. Just re-discovered a few albums I had bought many years ago
 * bigcalm sways to Pentaphobe
<DJones> Not that I've bought many albums from Amazon, but the ones it'd added to my autorip folder are albums that I'd later sold the original cd
<bigcalm> Yes, the legality is some what questionable
<DJones> I was just glad I hadn't bought any 'dodgy albums' from Amazon for it to be recorded for all posterity :)
<popey> "We've added 29 songs from your CD purchases for free
<popey> "
<popey> \o/
<popey> one cd
<popey> which was a present
<DJones> I had 2 cd's worth and that was a double album
<bigcalm> 27 albums -> 422 tracks
<dwdorig> Amazon's autrip thing is terrifying.
<dwdorig> Mostly because I almost never buy music (by which I mean, the music I listen to is generally freely downloadable), and instead it's my wife buying CDs for her, her mother, the kids, etc.
<DJones> I'll be more impressed when/if they start giving electronic copies of paper books I'd previously bought from them
<popey> ..with no drm
<DJones> Ideally with no drm, but I wouldn't complain if they were drm'd
<BigRedS> I've largely made peace with DRMed ebooks. Which is weird given my rabid hippyness elswhere
<BigRedS> I view it as essentially a subscription service; it's a kindle thing and should work as long as I have a kindle
<BigRedS> and if I want to keep it longer than that I'll get it in dead tree
<dwdorig> I'm frantically searching Amazon's privacy clauses to make sure this list can never be public.
<dwdorig> It's got "I love a Party", by "Russ Abbot" - and that's not the worst thing on here.
<DJones> There's one book I bought from Amazon that was lent out to somebody before I'd had chance to read it and was promptly lost/misplaced so I wish I could track it down
<BigRedS> dwdorig: I left my spotify account logged in for a party and my '90s Megamix became public knowledge :/
<dwdorig> The '90's has music?
<DJones> Most things after the 80's sound like white noise to me :) Now, get off my lawn
<BigRedS> heeel yeah. B*witched, All Saints, Des'ree, East 17
<dwdorig> Were B*witched the weird Irish girls in denim?
<lornajane> dwdorig: does that narrow it down?
<dwdorig> lornajane, Good point, well made.
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> but, yeah, they were some of them
<lornajane> I shouldn't be rude about them though, pretty sure you would find b*witched on the music server if you looked
<lornajane> I stopped buying digital music from amazon when they started making me download it a track at a time from a horribly inaccessible interface
<lornajane> haven't found an alternative supplier though really
<popey> you can download full albums with the app can't you?
<BigRedS> I use spotify generally
<BigRedS> so much easier than managing multiple GB of audio files
<popey> ah, clamz is the command line download tool
<popey> that too
<dwdorig> popey, Speaking of apps, can Ubuntu-Fondle run Android apps?
 * dwdorig hates to drag discussion back to compters, but...
<popey> Nope
<lornajane> ha, don't worry.  I'm only really here because I'm upgrading and I think I've broken something!
<popey> We don't ship dalvik or the java classlibraries
<dwdorig> Ah, right. There's plenty of times I'd prefer a more traditional UNIX on my tablet especially, but I also don't want to lose Android entirely.
<dwdorig> lornajane, Anyway, what's broke?
<mungbean> "We've added 102 songs from your CD purchases for free"
<mungbean> including one CD i lost for a few years
<mungbean> but only just found
<dwdorig> mungbean, That's why it's just been added. They *know*.
<mungbean> i wish there was "snd to google music" button
<mungbean> cloud player on linux is fail
<lornajane> dwdorig: well, aptitude is still running, so maybe nothing.  But it's giving me this gdk-pixbuf error quite a few times as it goes along
<dwdorig> lornajane, What error?
<lornajane> it includes the phrase "This likely means that your installation is broken" which is ringing alarm bells!
<mungbean> sometimes the CD is same price as mp3
<lornajane> dwdorig: it says "(gtk-update-icon-cache:11523): GdkPixbuf-WARNING **: Cannot open pixbuf loader module file '/usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/gdk-pixbuf-2.0/2.10.0/loaders.cache': No such file or directory
<dwdorig> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+2.0/+bug/1156927 ?
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1156927 in gtk+2.0 (Ubuntu) "Cannot open pixbuf loader module file '/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/gdk-pixbuf-2.0/2.10.0/loaders.cache': No such file or directory" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<popey> mungbean: there is a google music app on ubuntu
<dwdorig> Smells similar, doesn't it.
<mungbean> yes, but amazon cloud player support sucks
<mungbean> and you would have to download from amazon first
<dwdorig> lornajane, That bug includes the output:
<dwdorig> Try running the command
<dwdorig>   gdk-pixbuf-query-loaders > /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/gdk-pixbuf-2.0/2.10.0/loaders.cache
<dwdorig> to make things work again for the time being.
<lornajane> dwdorig: yep, that bug is what I see.  The command doesn't run though
<dwdorig> I'm not sure that's safe to run *while* you're installing, anyway.
<lornajane> aptitude is giving me lots of "Setting up .." now so I'll try it again when it's done
<popey> lornajane: what are you doing with aptitude out of interest?
<popey> upgrading from what to what?
<lornajane> popey: that's a really good question
<lornajane> this machine was first installed with mint + LXDE
<popey> ruh-roh
<dwdorig> lornajane, Oh, you're doing one of *those* upgrades...
<popey> i see where this is going
<lornajane> now it's really mint and XFCE, but with all the ubuntu sources included, so most of my packages seem to be ubuntu-esque for stuff that isn't X
<dwdorig> popey, Hey, don't knock it. That's how I cross-installed Ubuntu in the first place.
<lornajane> mint released olivia for XFCE this week and I'm not on site for a couple of days so I thought I'd just go for it
<popey> Good luck with that â»
<lornajane> I really should install xubuntu but ... eh, just can't get enthusiastic about getting everything properly set up again
<lornajane> I use so many various tools, it takes literally months to get round and discover all the broken things
<christel> 6/3
<christel> er
<mungbean> 2
<christel> <3
<dwdorig> Yes, and more than 1, like 2 normally is.
<diddledan> lol
<dwdorig> They don't call me Mr Helpful for nothing, you know. I have to pay them.
<diddledan> so dickie stallman is in the internet hall-of-fame now?
<dwdorig> Gosh, so he is. I didn't even read that announcement.
<mungbean> never heard of it
<dwdorig> And Jimmy Wales.
<dwdorig> mungbean, It's an Internet Society thing.
<mungbean> nevr heard of that either :P
<dwdorig> mungbean, They operate the IETF.
<mungbean> ok. and they have a list of people they like?
<popey> it was only established last year!
<popey> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Hall_of_Fame
<DJones> Will he ever read that he's in the internet hall of fame though? I didn't think he read anything on the internet (could just be an urban myth)
<dwdorig> DJones, Right, he has people to do that kind of thing for him.
<popey> DJones: its not a myth
<mungbean> it was true at one point about the way he read his mail
<popey> http://stallman.org/stallman-computing.html
<DJones> I guess that means he won't getting Amazon AutoRip albums downloaded into his Amazon drive then
<mungbean> we all knowpeople like him, i'm just surprised he managed to get so far
<popey> "When I use a search engine, it is always from a machine that isn't mine and that other people also use. I never identify myself to the site, of course."
<mungbean> he's searching for how to feed parrots
<popey> â»
<mungbean> you don't have to be a visionary to assume that ghcq and nsa are reading your unencrypted comms
 * dwatkins wonders if Stallman's computer has a free BIOS as well
<mungbean> yes
<mungbean> he has a machine called ollong tea for something, its well documented
<dwatkins> is the firmware for all the chips open as well?
<BigRedS> I think it is now
<BigRedS> well. He doesn't mind whether the firmware is free or not, he just doesn't use it if it's not free
<BigRedS> so had no WiFi on his OLPC because that was non-free
<popey> rmspostcomments
<popey> bah
<BigRedS> He is surprisingly accepting of non-free software, he just doesn't want to be part of the reason it is anywhere.
<dwatkins> fair enough
<mungbean> 1rms
<dwatkins> I agree with his stance on the OLPC.
<mungbean> !rms
<BigRedS> popey: one tweet announcing its existence...
<mungbean> <lubotu3> Sorry, I don't know anything about 'rms'
<BigRedS> Oh! It's for auth only...
<mungbean> we have this convo a lot, maybe a factoid :P
<Gary> I wonder if my old !gary still works :p
<BigRedS> But RMS would rather a bot not know anything about him :)
<Gary> aww
<directhex> sigh, rms
<diddledan> I think I popped the cork with the genie getting out of the bottle
<diddledan> who knew one person could evoke so much conversation?! :-p
<mungbean> modelzone in administration :(
<lornajane> okay, I think I fixed that pixbuf problem.  Let's see if I can reboot after all that
<popey> ali1234: what ever happened to that wayland fork, soreau was maintaining wasn't he
<popey> northwood?
<lornajane> I'm stuck in a situation where a tool requires a package that aptitude doesn't know about, what can I do at this point?
<lornajane> google just knows about some instances of error messages regarding this missing package, not the package itself
<bigcalm> hi lornajane :)
<bigcalm> lornajane: is it available in a ppa?
<lornajane> bigcalm: how would I find out?  I'm not getting hits when I search for it (it's gee-1.0)
<bigcalm> lornajane: looks like it might be part of gir1.2-gee-1.0
<lornajane> bigcalm: I am not sure how to explain that to the thing I'm trying to compile.  Already commented bits out of the CMakeLists.txt :)
<bigcalm> Ah
<bigcalm> If you install that package, does the error go away?
<lornajane> it is installed
<bigcalm> Oh
<bigcalm> symlink?
<lornajane> I thought maybe it was doing a check for a wrong package name ... but I'm not sure how to stop that
<bigcalm> I know rather little about make files :/
<lornajane> yeah symlink maybe, not sure what would link to what
<lornajane> well I'm trying to compile Vala.  Because there's a tool that exists in vala, and this is open source, right?
<bigcalm> Can you find a file with 'gee' in the name using locate?
<lornajane> I seem to have libgee2 things and gir1.2-gee-1.0 things
<bigcalm> Vala is available as a ppa
<lornajane> I think I have vala, I'm trying to compile something made of it
<bigcalm> Oh, I see :)
<lornajane> I have done this before, but then I upgraded and the project updated and I need to recompile ... been putting this off for months
<lornajane> because I knew I'd be in dependency hell :(
<bigcalm> Not procrastinating writing a talk? ;)
<lornajane> well, at some point I need to be able to compile my presenter tool, which is what this is
<bigcalm> Ah, all related so that's okay :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: you don't write talks you speak them, man I thought you was the clever one ;)
<lornajane> I'm about 8 weeks from *needing* this tool to work, I'm only giving a couple of talks that I don't particularly need the presenter view for
<lornajane> 8 weeks is about as good as it gets, so the time is now
<bigcalm> Fair enough
<lornajane> the tool is getting better but I do have some custom build bits in there so I need to be able to compile it
<lornajane> apparently I'm the only person in the world who ever starts not at the first slide of a presentation, for example
<bigcalm> Re-order your slides? :)
<lornajane> bigcalm: it's the training courses, which can be several hundred slides and take a few days
<bigcalm> Oh, that makes sense
<popey> vala is in the repo
<popey> dont need a ppa for that
<popey> given chunks of unity are written in vala...
<bigcalm> Rich was jumping about all over the place when he did Symfony2 training
<lornajane> popey: I think I have vala, but in trying to compile some vala, I get missing packages - but we think the package names have changed is all
<lornajane> bigcalm: yeah, I'm like that too.  Nothing is as tiring as a day's training - because I'm bouncing about and thinking and talking all day!
<popey> ah
<popey> superfun
<popey> how can i see what program is using a kernel module I am trying to unload?
<popey> Error: Module uvcvideo is in use
<popey> but I dont know what is using it
<bigcalm> modprobe uvcvideo ?
<popey> i am trying to rmmod it
<bigcalm> Actually, I think that might try to load it
<bigcalm> modinfo maybe?
<popey> nope
<bigcalm> lsmod will list what mods are being used by other mods
<bigcalm> Can you see anything using /dev/video* ?
<popey> yeah, its being used by something else
<diplo> lsof ?
<popey> ah yeah, lsof
<popey> aha
<bigcalm> Skype?
<popey> chromium
<bigcalm> Hangouts
<popey> yup
<popey> oof, just lost the entire chromium
<bigcalm> Ouch
<popey> I hope my tabs come back when I open it
<popey> \o/
<mungbean> i never understand when it says ..umm can't open the tabs, but i know what they were
<mungbean> click to open them
<lornajane> mungbean: my chrome does it I think in case something inside one of them is causing the crash
<lornajane> so it won't crash again until you ask it to
<dwatkins> I tend to save my open tabs with cloud tab sometimes, just in case
<lornajane> progress! As in, I get a different error now :)
<popey> i just have chromium set to re-open whatever was open when it closed/died
<dwatkins> Tab Cloud, even: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/tabcloud/npecfdijgoblfcgagoijgmgejmcpnhof?hl=en
<dwatkins> been burned once too many times by CCleaner
<diplo> really? Ccleaner works well for me
<bigcalm> I don't appear to have a volume icon/controller on my desktop. How do I get it back?
<lornajane> bigcalm: run alsamixer
<bigcalm> lornajane: that's a CLI app
<lornajane> bigcalm: yes, but it's what I've been using since I don't have clickable audio controls
<bigcalm> Ah :)
<Azelphur> popey: but in your setup, if you loose one drive, do you loose all data?
<bigcalm> lornajane: apparently this fixes itsudo apt-get install indicator-sound
 * bigcalm logs out to find out
<popey> Azelphur: no, of course not
<popey> RAID1
<Azelphur> oh, raid 1 is mirror, right?
<popey> yeah, btrfs doesn't do RAID1 like hardware RAID or MD RAID
<Azelphur> I see
<popey> but the effect is the same, data is spread over more than one disk
<bigcalm> lornajane: that fixed it :)
<Azelphur> yea, I was hoping to get a "one big partition" but if one drive fails, I just loose the data on that drive, type scenario
<Azelphur> could probably get away with it doing something funky with symlinks tbh, haha
<popey> er, okay
<popey> why do you want to lose data?
<Azelphur> popey: because I don't wanna fork out for 2x the drive space, and it's just tv shows which can be re-grabbed
<Azelphur> loosing one drives worth of tv shows ain't so bad, loosing all drives worth of tv shows, bad :p
<diddledan> I need to do some tv show downloading.. I have zero footprint in the piracy market these days
<diddledan> I fancy watching babylon5 end-to-end again.. awesome series!
<ali1234> popey: i dunno, you can go ask him in #norwood or #northfield or something
<popey> norwood, that's it, I thought it was northwood
<Azelphur> diddledan: I have a pretty cool setup, my I have a web panel where I can add TV shows and my system will auto-grab stuff as it comes out :P
<ali1234> much like wayland, it's not usable yet and doesn't look like it will e any time soon
<diddledan> how fast does raspberry pi encode h264 using it's super fancy co processor?
<Azelphur> and the web service uses a recommendation engine based on what I've already watched, which is cool too
<ali1234> (and mir too lest you think i am being biased)
<diddledan> Azelphur: is it available for others?
<Azelphur> diddledan: yup
<Azelphur> I'm using flexget+trakt.tv
<Azelphur> diddledan: http://trakt.tv/user/Azelphur/library/shows/all my library for example, :P
<ali1234> diddledan: babylon 5 is only available in super low quality... like VHS... they threw out all the 3D models and the live show was filmed on TV cameras, not film like TNG
<diddledan> :-(
<diddledan> that sucks
<ali1234> yeah but what can you do
<diddledan> I suppose it reduced the cost when they were filming it
<ali1234> yeah it was single camera
<ali1234> everything about it was really cheap... if they had the footage on film it would just make the makeup look bad
<diddledan> I was musing the other day over the transition between film and video before hi-def video - we've got like a decade of lost material where it was recorded direct to videotape where we can't improve the quality for hi-def video
<ali1234> a decade? more like 50 years
<diddledan> now with 4k around the corner it's only getting worse
<ali1234> it's not the end of the world
<ali1234> i mean if a show is good it does not matter
<mgdm> didn't realise TNG was film
<ali1234> it was, that's how they were able to do the HD re release recently
<mgdm> ah yes, of course
<lornajane> bingo!  It built :)
<diddledan> well done, lornajane
<diplo>  I've written my own thing like the trakt.tv thing Azelphur
<Azelphur> o.O
<diplo> Your list is very much like my personal one :)
<Azelphur> nice
<diplo> not seen under the dome though
<diplo> Actually hadn't heard of it
<popey> i always thought TNG was video
<dwdorig> popey, Made by Paramount, who're a film company at heart.
<ali1234> popey: it looks like video because it was all edited on video and then converted to PAL from that
<ali1234> but they kept the film masters and so were able to remake it all
<ali1234> at massive cost
<popey> ahh
<popey> did they recoup that from the HD releases?
<popey> I imagine there's a fair few fans who would buy that stuff
<davmor2> popey: I though TNG was the startrek with picard at the helm
<popey> I didn't say it wasn't â»
<ali1234> no idea, but i guess they thought they would or they wouldn't have done it
<mungbean> is it OK to have an ldif file with lots of  add: userid  lines after the usual changetype:modify etc?
<directhex> ali1234, the worst bit is all the B5 CG was rendered interlaced
<ali1234> haha lol
<mungbean> don't worry, it's yes
<dwdorig> directhex, Right, it was NTSC only and all sorts. I seem to recall the showed it slightly letterboxed on C4.
<ali1234> interlace is great if you have an interlaced display otherwise it's a complete nightmare
<directhex> the image quality on the main portions of B5 is actually okay, on the DVD releases. there are just occasional sections that look utterly dreadful
 * TheOpenSourcerer is having an odd kind of day. Not seemingly able to focus on anything... Might go and mow the lawn instead.
<directhex> typically sections with CG composited into the background
<ali1234> yeah it's watchable... it looks like the old TNG repeats on cheap satellite channels. you wouldn't accept it from a show made today but it is watchable
<dwdorig> It was ground-breaking for its time, though. All those NewTek video toasters and stuff.
<dwdorig> Still tragic that the best space scenes remain in 2001, though, which didn't have any CG at all.
<diddledan> does it still claim the title as the only space scifi that shows a toilet?
<diddledan> b5 I mean
<ali1234> i'm pretty sure red dwarf must have had a toilet in it at some point
<ali1234> also i don't remember the toilet in b5
<diddledan> you'd hope so :-p
<popey> did HHGTTG not have a loo?
<popey> well, they teleported from a cubicle
<dwdorig> 2001 also had a toilet scene, I think.
<popey> from within the ship powered by bistromathics
<directhex> b5 felt real. real people. star trek was far too utopian to feel realistic
<bashrc> bistromathics?
<lornajane> bashrc: it is what it sounds like it's going to be
<directhex> and then they say "oh, oops, it's not utopian at all" in their series set on a space station next to a jumpgate
<directhex> erm, wormhole
<directhex> whoops, how did i possibly make that error
<diddledan> bashrc: bistromaths is the mathematics of how many spits the waiter is going to put in your soup today
<diddledan> and related things
<bashrc> :-)
<ali1234> directhex: yeah i always say that TNG feels like propaganda and the truth is that star fleet is a lot more like the US millitary than the federation citizens know
<popey> that is relfected in the new Star Trek
<ali1234> ie it's a lot more like DS9 in reality
<popey> but they put it down to one bad guy in the ranks
<mgdm> DS9 \o/
<dwdorig> http://davidszondy.com/future/space/zero_g_toilet.htm - 2001's toilet instructions. Actual toilet wasn't shown I think.
<diddledan> I still haven't seen Into Darkness yet
<directhex> b5 had its crap episodes, sure, but i think it did a great job of presenting a warts-and-all view of how much the future sucks
<ali1234> everyone hated DS9 at the time but it is actually quite good looking back
<bashrc> Maybe the future is like the past.  Imagine if all the oil runs out.
<brobostigon> and avery brooks happens to be a good singer and pianist.
<directhex> i was ambivalent about it at the time. i haven't changed my opinion since then
<ali1234> directhex: but you are like that about everything
<dwdorig> directhex, Firmly ambivalent, or just vaguely so?
<diddledan> can one be vaguely ambivalent?
<bashrc> maybe in the future there will be not so many spaceships and more horses and carts
<directhex> ali1234, no, sometimes i hate things too
<diddledan> isn't the whole point of ambivalence that it's somewhat vague?
<bashrc> meh
<directhex> 'I do not know with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones'
<diddledan> bashrc: as long as the internet works ok, I'm happy
<dwdorig> directhex, Churchill, wasn't it? Or am I misattributing?
<ali1234> einstein
<dwdorig> ali1234, I was close.
<dwdorig> Well, close-ish. It's all relative.
<ali1234> ha
<diddledan> *groan*
 * dwdorig bows
<diplo> Anyone here use beautifulsoup module in python ?
<Seeker`> tried it
<diplo> much luck?
<Seeker`> didn't seem to be able to parse the whole of the page, and silently cut off half of what I wanted to scrape
<diplo> I can do most things so far, Trying to display anything inside of a span with a class
<Seeker`> ended up using perl instead :P
<diplo> :)
<Seeker`> which is a complete mess. But it works.
<popey> i have used beautifulsoup to scrape my online banking
<diplo> My code sucks I guess
<diplo> So, I have  a <span class="name"> loads of lis etc here </span>
<diplo> And I want to retrieve from span to /span and all inside and dump it into a db
<diplo> All I get is the first <h2> and then it stops
<diplo> http://www.hotlines-uk.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=81685
<diplo> If anyone has any suggestions on anything other than beautiful soup I'm all ears :)
<BigRedS> when did hotlines start selling bikes?
<diplo> They don't afaik
<diplo> Supplying them ?
<BigRedS> that looks a lot like a shop...
<diplo> No basket though ?just RRP's
<BigRedS> oh yeah
<popey> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/06/mir-display-server-to-ship-default-in-ubuntu-13-10
<BigRedS> slightly more OT, though, I'd not get that one
<BigRedS> generally, full sus < Â£1500 is pretty poor
<BigRedS> though I've been not really listening for about the past five years...
<ali1234> popey: good.
<ali1234> pity it won't work with proprietary drivers though
<popey> yeah, fallback for those
<ali1234> this pretty much means you'll have to choose between mir and steam. guess which one is going to win...
<BigRedS> hah. Be amusing to see Ubuntu going from the "Your computer looks too free" prompt to explicitly not supporting closed graphics drivers :)
<ali1234> it's the same as the situation with the first release of unity really
<diddledan> I guess it's the only way to drive the gfx vendors to crating drivers for mir/wayland/etc.
<ali1234> nah, they won't do it anyway
<diddledan> it sucks because the opensource gfx drivers for my amd card cause the fan to spin stupid fast
<ali1234> it will be at least 3 years before you see a wayland or mir driver from nvidia
<popey> they will
<ali1234> for desktop that is
<ali1234> they might make drivers for phone BSPs
<ali1234> but those aren't much use
<bashrc> Does that mean that Mir will be incredibly slow?
<ali1234> also they'll probably only do it for brand new cards
<popey> no bashrc
<ali1234> bashrc: it means it won't work at all if you have a real graphics card
<bashrc> i.e. no 3D acceleration
<ali1234> unless you cripple it with the open source drivers
<bashrc> is that a feature? ;-)
<bashrc> as exhibit A I cite Gnome Shell without 3D acceleration
<diddledan> I read an interesting interview with raspi's eben upton in linuxformat this month - he pointed out that the graphics processor on the pi is the only non-gl backend currently available for wayland, and opengl backends suck in general because gl is evil
<ali1234> bashrc: it's not really about 3d
<ali1234> gnome shell doesn't use most of what a 3d card does and the stuff it does need is in the open source drivers
<bashrc> but without 3D acceleration Gnome Shell is so slow as to be unusable
<ali1234> when it uses the software fallback it's slow because it is now 100% software
<ali1234> it doesn't use that mode on eg nouveau though
<ali1234> the problem is nouveau can't run games
<ali1234> so mir will be fast but games will be slow, crash, or just plain not work at all
<bashrc> that might rain on the steam parade
<ali1234> yes quite
<ali1234> i do wonder what valve thinks about having to port all of it's games to a new driver architecture after they just finished doing it for the existing one
<bashrc> So without the support of the graphics card suppliers Mir could be a shot in the foot for Canonical, at a time when Ubuntu seems just about to become a possible commercial gaming platform
<diddledan> valve is going to go console-based using linux so it doesn't really matter what the desktops are using
<diddledan> imo
<bashrc> OTOH the games industry could just stick with 12.04 for the next 4 years, by which time anything could have happened
<diddledan> the second coming and the heralded apocalypse?
<bashrc> Zombies.  Alien invasions.
<bashrc> In 4 years time netbooks might be back in fashion
<diddledan> HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
<lornajane> well, we're all using tablets with keyboards ... which looks a lot like a netbook to me
<diddledan> sorry, but, seriously?! :-p
<bashrc> a crappy netbook
 * BigRedS still wants a psion
<BigRedS> all the netbooks were a bit too big for me - small enough that the keyboard is poor, but too big to go in a pocket
<lornajane> I have a phone with a keyboard, it's very useful
<BigRedS> I've been eyeing up a small tablet and a keyboard recently
<bashrc> I should get one of those vintage IBM keyboards and try connecting it up to a tablet
<lornajane> yeah I'm hanging on for more news of a new nexus 7
<BigRedS> bashrc: I have seen a bluetoothed model M somewhere
<BigRedS> just a ps/2->usb adaptor and a usb->bluetooth one hidden inside the case
<diddledan> I think it's hungrytime
<mgdm> lornajane: me too - I was about to buy a 7 before my brother told me there was a new one on the way
<lornajane> mgdm: I'm watching for that and the s4 mini - but not sure I can afford both!
<lornajane> my phone is on it's way out however, battery is dying and mechanically it's falling apart
<lornajane> why nobody makes a phone with a keyboard nowadays, I really don't know
<lornajane> I actually want a candybar with number buttons and the ability to tether :)
<mgdm> there was one I saw the other day that I *think* ran recent android
<mgdm> but I can't rememebr what it was
<lornajane> mgdm: the other problem is that I can very rarely get a phone of decent spec into my pocket
<bigcalm> Coo, couple of bi-planes just flew over head. Strange to see planes flying slowly around here
<lornajane> ladies are really supposed to have handbags but I fail at that!
<mgdm> heh heh
<dwdorig> lornajane, I can cope with "big enough screen" over keyboard on a phone, but for the tablet, I use an ASUS transformer that has a real keyboard.
<bigcalm> Why do they make lady's trouser pockets so small?
<dwdorig> lornajane, That said, there's a bunch of slightly older US imports that have keyboards. Or you can grab a bluetooth keyboard, too.
<lornajane> I currently have the xperia mini pro which is fabulous - but *tiny* so it's really hard to read on
<lornajane> that said I mostly use my phone for email, so the keyboard is used a lot and I find it really useful.  Even on a table (husband has a nexus 10) I find the soft keyboards unreasonably hard to use, dunno why
<dwdorig> lornajane, For prose typing, I find Swype good enough.
<lornajane> dwdorig: I think I do need to learn a new input technique, yes
<BigRedS> yeah, I've just started using a swipey keyboard and it's way better than the soft ones I've been settling for since the demise of my G1
<dwdorig> lornajane, But only on the phone - on the tablet it's too big, I anything longer than a sentence I dock it.
 * brobostigon likes hackers keyboard, as it has normal keys other soft keyboards dont have.
<dwdorig> brobostigon, Yes, for SSH and code.
<dwdorig> brobostigon, But for prose - like emails - Swype is my weapon of choice.
<brobostigon> dwdorig: on my nexus7, i have that set as standard.
<brobostigon> dwdorig: but yes, on smaller screens, it wouldnt be practical.
<lornajane> I have yet to see any touch screen input faster than typing t9 on an old-style phone keypad.  And you could do that one-handed and not looking
<lornajane> I also touch type at the computer, so that makes everything else seem crazy slow!
<diddledan> I only pretend to touch type
<lornajane> I'm a 90 WPM girl when I know what I want to say
<brobostigon> you could probably use dasher on handed.
<diddledan> I make too many mistakes for it to be valid
<brobostigon> one*
<dwdorig> lornajane, Swype - real Swype, not the copies - is extremely impressive. It approaches around 60 WPM when you're in the flow of things.
 * lornajane is taking notes of things to try - probably on borrowed tablet rather than underpowered phone
<dwdorig> lornajane, The copies are OK, mind, but tend not to do punctuation and capitalization in the same flow, so it's not quite as good.
<lornajane> or I have a spare HTC Sensation
<dwdorig> Of course, touch-typing on an iPad is much better, because it has the little dots on F and J to help you. ;-)
<Gary> I love those dots
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> touchtyping on the ipad is evil because you can't rest on any of the keys without it picking up as a keypress
<diddledan> that and you have to put the pad down on something
<mgdm> actually, I really like the keyboard inside the lid of a Surface
<mgdm> it's a nice idea (I've not tried the one with actual keys, but the one with a keyboard printed on is surprisingly good)
<dwdorig> mgdm, I've not tried that - it reminded me on a ZX Spectrum when I saw it though. I take it it feels better?
<mgdm> well, you're typing on a dead surface that doesn't react, same as an iPad, but you're not typing on the actual screen so there's more space to see what you're up to
<mgdm> and you can prop it up properly
<dwdorig> Right, yes, and in addition I suppose it's not very bulky.
<mgdm> aye
<dwdorig> I've a TF101 and TF700T, where you get additional bulk from the dock, but you get additional battery too - for me that's a great trade-off.
<ali1234> how can i write this piece of C++11 code so that it compiles with gcc-4.6?
<ali1234> Racer::Racer(SceneManager *mSceneMgr, int n) : Racer(mSceneMgr, n, new PilotAI(this)) {;}
<ali1234> it doesn't work with --std=C++0x
<ali1234> i guess i should just update the compiler
<ali1234> xnox: any idea when we might see mingw-w64 gcc-4.7+ in debian and/or ubuntu?
<ali1234> hmm opensuse has 4.8.1
<ali1234> maybe i should just switch to OBS
<directhex> https://launchpad.net/~directhex/+archive/monoxide/+packages?field.name_filter=&field.status_filter=published&field.series_filter=raring
<Laney> grargh
<Laney> I keep missing the GRUB timeout
<Laney> did it like three times in a row
<Laney> want to get to gameOS
<popey> I am happily using GameOSâ¢ much less these days
<popey> Thanks to Steamâ¢
<MartijnVdS> So.. anyone looking for a coder? ;)
<popey> oof.
<popey> You looking for a job?
<MartijnVdS> popey: they just announced plans to eliminate my team by April
<MartijnVdS> so.. yeah
<popey> Sounds harsh.
<MartijnVdS> yeah, 30% of the company is being kicked out
<popey> I mean, they could just fire you.
<popey> elimination seems overkill (as it were)
<popey> sorry for making light of it
<MartijnVdS> popey: I've been making jokes all day, don't worry
 * popey pokes MartijnVdS with a pm
<MartijnVdS> eww
<popey> you love it
<MartijnVdS> popey: not in public ;)
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: aren't you in a weird place?
<BigRedS> Holland or somewhere
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: yes, I am
<MartijnVdS> and it's not "official" yet, they have to jump through some (law) hoops for a few weeks first
<BigRedS> Booking.com appear to be always hiring perl types round there
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: they are
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: they're always at YAPC::EU and ::NA with a huge recruitment stand
<BigRedS> Yeah, they turn up at London.pm stuff, too, trying to get people to emigrate
<BigRedS> I've much booking.com branded tat :)
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: I have a few things as well 8-)
<shauno> hm, is there no alternate CD anymore?  how does one force a textmode install these days?
<MartijnVdS> shauno: www.debian.org :P
<DJones> shauno: Minimal iso
<DJones> !minimal
<lubotu3> The Minimal CD image is very small in size, and it downloads most packages from the Internet during installation, allowing you to select only those you want.  The installer is text based (rather than graphical as used on the Desktop DVD). See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD
<shauno> I was trying to avoid that because I won't be able to get my wifi up :(
<DJones> I think the last alternate iso was 12.04
<shauno> hm, that might be good enough, ta
<Laney> you could use a server cd
<shauno> the real install is throwing me into a 'low graphics mode' which doesn't actually work
<mungbean> need to settle a dispute with my wife
<mungbean> who has kids around 3, 3.5 in age?
<alistair> hello is there anyway i can uninstall a package and turn it into a tarball or .deb package so i can reinstall it later if i want to?
<BigRedS> if it was installed as a deb package it might still be knocking around in apt's cache
<alistair> many thanks :-)
<shauno> hm, server and alternate both fail to find the cdrom because it was booted with grub loopback
<popey> alistair: or apt-get -d <package>  which will download only the deb
<popey> and put it in /var/cache/apt/
<BigRedS> yeah, if it's still in the archives
<ali1234> is anyone on GameOS right now?
<popey> just booting it
<ali1234> want to test my windows build?
<popey> fancied some portal 2
<popey> yeah!
<ali1234> i just had to rewrite the constructors because no delegating constructors
 * MartijnVdS wants Portal 2 for Linux
<popey> +1
<ali1234> do you have an xbox or ps3 joypad?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: I have a PS3-shaped USB joypad
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: also a PS3 joypad but that's linked to the PS3 ;)
<ali1234> that isn't good enough unless it's one f the supported logitech types
<popey> I have a USB attched gamecube one â»
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: it's a Logitech
<popey> or ouya one
<MartijnVdS> [178441.747808] logitech 0003:046D:C218.0004: Force feedback for Logitech RumblePad/Rumblepad 2 by Anssi Hannula <anssi.hannula@gmail.com>
<MartijnVdS> seems to be at least a bit supported
<diddledan> surely that's a rumblepad, not a joypad (I have no idea on what either are!)
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: http://www.pcdistrict.com/modules/productcatalog/product_images/125125-logitech-rumblepad-2-2581.jpg
<ali1234> it has to be one of these: http://hg.libsdl.org/SDL/file/c7346a060a7d/src/joystick/SDL_gamecontroller.c#l92
<MartijnVdS> Bus 003 Device 022: ID 046d:c218 Logitech, Inc. Logitech RumblePad 2 USB
<MartijnVdS> it has all the PS3 buttons
<ali1234> or you have to configure your joypad in steam big picture mode and then send me the line from the config file and i patch it into SDL
<popey> heh
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: OK :)
<popey> effort++
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: which config file do I look in?>
<ali1234> grep for the name you saved the joypad config as (it prompts you)
<ali1234> you'll see a line like those ones ^
<ali1234> i can't remember the exact file and my internet has gone strange
<ali1234> anyway you don't need joypad to test...
<ali1234> you just won't be able to drive
<popey> ooh! http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/06/half-life-2-sequel-turn-stable-on-steam-for-linux
<MartijnVdS> config.vdf:	"SDL_GamepadBind"		"030000006d04000018c2000010010000,Logitech RumblePad 2,a:b1,b:b2,y:b3,x:b0,start:b9,back:b8,leftstick:b10,rightstick:b11,leftshoulder:b4,rightshoulder:b5,dpup:h0.1,dpleft:h0.8,dpdown:h0.4,dpright:h0.2,leftx:a0,lefty:a1,rightx:a2,righty:a3,lefttrigger:b6,righttrigger:b7,"
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: ^
<ali1234> that was done on linux?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: yes
<MartijnVdS> just now
<ali1234> ok let me see how to patch this in to the source
<dwdorig> This Steam conversation reminds me - has anyone got Garrys Mod working on 13.04 64-bit yet?
<ali1234> the mappings are different on windows and linux
<ali1234> maybe i should just read this from a file
<MartijnVdS> dwdorig: trying now
<MartijnVdS> dwdorig: could not load library
<dwdorig> MartijnVdS, Right, that's what I get. I wondered if there was a solution.
<dwdorig> MartijnVdS, I also wondered if it just hated me.
<ali1234> actually on windows the game controllers might "just work"
<MartijnVdS> as long as you have the 50MB driver installed
<directhex> joysticks should just be HID
<directhex> and the xbox 360 controller as "standard" means games basically have all the calibration data out of the box
<MartijnVdS> directhex: sure, and printers should just speak PCL or PS ;)
<directhex> all pads these days should be emitting 360-style mappings & calibration data, so onscreen prompts etc just line up
<MartijnVdS> my USB pad is older though
<directhex> e.g. logitech pads act as 360 pads
<MartijnVdS> directhex: this one is from the PS2 era
<MartijnVdS> so no X360-compayt
<directhex> oh
<MartijnVdS> G-UF13  (http://www.logitech.com/en-us/support/288)
<directhex> monogame used to have a gui for configuring joypads. getting it removed is one of my finer moments
<popey> heh
<directhex> t'was closed source
<popey> now, do i trust this random binary from some internet person
<ali1234> well you probably should not *shrug*
<ali1234> otoh it's only windows, you should have anything private on it anyway
<ali1234> +n't
<mungbean> mate of mine impounded a glow in the dark lambo outside harrods
<mungbean> looks hideous
<ali1234> tbh it probably won't even work
<popey> libgcc_s_slj-1.ddll missing
<ali1234> hmm :/
<popey> libgcc_s_sjlj-1.dll missing rather
<ali1234> probably in the toolchain somewhere... searching for it
<ali1234> uploading
<popey> ahh, mingw
<ali1234> yeah everything is cross compiled
<ali1234> that's why i've been moaning about ubuntu only having 4.6 all day
<popey> there is an advert on your download page
<ali1234> and also why i have never tested it on windows
<ali1234> yup
<popey> how odd
<ali1234> i know :)
<popey> wtf
<ali1234> i've made Â£5 so far lol
<popey> haha
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
<popey> brilliant
<popey> doesn't like that dll
<ali1234> my upload is so slow :(
<popey> oh, not finished?
<ali1234> yeah it only just finished downloading
<ali1234> *up
<popey> missing libstdc++-6.dll â»
<ali1234> *sigh*
<ali1234> i bet that one is huge as well
<ali1234> popey: uploaded
<popey> k
<popey> Nice!
<popey> It's like watching one of your youtube videos
<ali1234> decent framerate then?
<popey> yeah
<ali1234> if all the cars drive themselves, it means your joypad is not supported by SDL's built in definitions
<popey> solid
<mungbean> do me a solid
<mungbean> i've been using that phrase (ironically) a lot this week
<popey> â»
<ali1234> it sounds painful
<popey> ali1234: it stops after a while?
<ali1234> er... yeah after all the cars complete 3 laps or die by falling off
<ali1234> i'm surprised it even runs to be honest
<ali1234> literally none of the libraries are supposed to be cross compiled and i had to fix all of them in many ways
<popey> ali1234: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSmR8h93Lsg
<shauno> How do I configure xorg if it doesn't manage auto?
<popey> what video card?
<ali1234> nice one :)
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: the linux tgz is up, pm'ing url. you should not need any of these funny dlls...
<popey> hah
<shauno> not entirely sure :) lspci just calls it intel 2nd generation core family integrated
<shauno> But I think using inteldrmfb is getting in the way
<popey> is it a mac?
<popey> ali1234: framerate on my laptop is terrible, unsurprisingly
<shauno> Yeah
<ali1234> well yeah
<popey> is it dual cards?
<popey> intel + nvidia
<shauno> yup, but I have the radon disabled
<ali1234> you will need recent nvidia or ati because it is doing some complex stencil buffer shadow effects
<shauno> radeon (sorry, phone is spelling for me)
<popey> strange xorg should just figure it out
<shauno> The catch is I'm trying to boot with efi, so I have to disable the amd card else it fails
<shauno> it's not doing a bad job with the video itself, but it's not finding any input devices.  so I get to this; http://cl.ly/image/401A36260C1y
<shauno> but can't use the keyboard/mouse to hit Okay  (but can ctrl+alt+F1 to get to a term)
<bigcalm> Oooo. HL2 et al are no longer showing as "Beta" in Steam. I wonder how close we are to a Portal 2 release
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: half life 3 confirmed!
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: whaaaaa? :D:D:D
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: no wai!
<MartijnVdS> that's the default reddit reply to steam news
<bigcalm> HL3 or HL2 ep 3?
<dwatkins> ah
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: Gabe Newell was in the Clang kickstarter video though:
<MartijnVdS> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/260688528/clang?ref=live
<dwatkins> you meanie, MartijnVdS :-p
<dwdorig> MartijnVdS, You're a cruel, heartless man.
<MartijnVdS> ^ around 3 minutes into the video
<MartijnVdS> Gabe hammering a red-hot crowbar "Is it ready?" "These things take time"
<dwatkins> I like the idea that HL3 might be Linux only - unlikely, but it amuses me to think that might be the case
<ali1234> for HL3 they should license full life consequences
<ali1234> it's got a better story than anything valve have come up with
<dwatkins> :A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad." - Shigeru Miyamoto
<dwatkins> s/:/"/
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: that, AND concerned
<ali1234> is that the webcomic?
<ali1234> yeah :)
<MartijnVdS> yeah, with Frohman
<ali1234> that was pretty good too
<dwdorig> dwatkins, Three words for you.
<dwdorig> dwatkins, "Duke Nukem Forever"
<dwatkins> dwdorig: precisely
<dwatkins> one can delay too long
<MartijnVdS> Daikatana
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_commercial_failures_in_video_gaming
<ali1234> i was reading that page the other day
<ali1234> rise of the robots is missing from it
<dwatkins> Pac Mac was majorly hyped for the Atari 2600, but was a complete let-down, it contributed to the decline of the games industry at the time
<popey> gosh, had never seen clang
<dwatkins> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pac-Man_(Atari_2600)#Reception
<MartijnVdS> popey: read Snow Crash, you'll know where he got his idea ;)
<dwatkins> I assume Snow Crash was the inspiration for The Matrix.
<ali1234> i don't see how clang can work without haptic feedback
<dwatkins> ...and Second Life
<MartijnVdS> ...and minecraft
<bashar_> hi m8s
<bashar_> anyone watch chil porn?
<shauno> and I thought I was off-topic
<dwatkins> !coc
<lubotu3> The Ubuntu Code of Conduct is a community etiquette document to which we ask all Ubuntu users to adhere | http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/conduct  | For information on how to electronically sign the CoC, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SigningCodeofConduct | Watch http://static.screencasts.ubuntu.com/videos/2010/12/22/004-SigningCoC.ogv
<xnox> ali1234: it's been a while since i was involved in any of that. ask debian maintainer, there have been uploads recently.
<ali1234> ok, thanks
<BigRedS> acpi
<BigRedS> oop
#ubuntu-uk 2013-06-28
<diplo> Morning all
<popey> morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> Thank any arbitrary deity for Feedly :-)
<popey> heh
 * popey went for newsblur
<TheOpenSourcerer> GReader in iGoogle died today for me :-( iGoogle was my kind of "start" button for the Internet each day...
<Myrtti> iGoogle was supposed to die ages ago
<TheOpenSourcerer> November IIRC
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hah: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/06/army-restricts-access-to-the-guardian-in-the-wake-of-nsa-leaks
<ali1234> firefox user unaffected
<knightwise> TheOpenSourcerer: yeah .. I'm still coding around the demise of Google reader
<dwatkins> I switched to newsblur, it seems okay.
<MooDoo> morning
<popey>  /nick POPEY
<MooDoo> everyone changing their nic to capitals today?
<knightwise> and why is that ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Where's JamesTait when you need him? Maybe it's "Change you NIC to CAPITALS Day"?
<MooDoo> knightwise: lol I was just having a joke, not a funny one I might add
<knightwise> MooDoo: i wansn't expecting that much coming from you :p
<TheOpenSourcerer> Maybe popey's cat stood on the caps lock key...
<MooDoo> knightwise: why thank you
<knightwise> :)
<knightwise> Crap
<knightwise> Facebook does not appear to support updating via email for me.
<knightwise> that ruins some of the automated promotion scripts i had in mind
<MooDoo> bloomin facebook, I discovered the other day that there is another place where I can see messages, apparently I've missed 5/6 job offers....sigh
<mungbean> job offers via fb?
<MooDoo> mungbean: I'll rephrase, photography enquiries
<mungbean> my place is hiring like crazy atm, but probably best suited to junior sysadmin who wants to step up
<mungbean> ah
<MooDoo> have you advertised mungbean ?
<MooDoo> I didn't realise that there was an OTHER section in the messages bit,so missed a lot
<mungbean> i am not directly involved in that dept, but they advertise on jobs.ac.uk
<MooDoo> work at a uni/school?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<mungbean> uni MooDoo
<MooDoo> mungbean: nice
<mungbean> meh
<mungbean> too many munters
<mungbean> and numpties
<mungbean> interspersed with talented people who aren't listened to because they aren't contractors or project manager types
<MooDoo> still nice to work at a uni
<mungbean> its getting me down a bit tbh
<mungbean> the eejits are taking over
<MooDoo> mungbean: oh dear, how come?   just to many numpties?
<mungbean> yeah
<MooDoo> mungbean: ever read BOFH?
<mungbean> used to in the 90s
<MooDoo> mungbean: there you go then, get a PFY and have a little fun ;)
<mungbean> there's a few old guard neckbeards like that, they are retiring now though
<dwatkins> this sounds depressingly familiar
<MooDoo> mungbean: which uni?
<knightwise> Lol , just checked that section
<knightwise> got some podcast listener feedback stuck in there
<knightwise> from 2011
<mungbean> PM'd
<MooDoo> yeah got it thanks
<mungbean> probably better not bee any more specifc about the problems but meh
<MooDoo> some nice jobs there
<dwatkins> I was reading the other day about how things are at Microsoft (I work for a large company also), and I guess this kind of thing is somewhat inevitable in a big company.
<JAMESTAIT> Good morning all, happy Friday and HAPPY CAPS LOCK DAY! :-D
<mungbean> yes, i've worked at a lot of companies and banks of aroudn 100-250 staff
<mungbean> generally the techie is the PM too and they have to deliver
<mungbean> and it works well
<dwatkins> I used to work for a relatively large company, but things seemed to work well there for the most part, as it wasn't huge.
<mungbean> sometimes its possible to find a niche in a large company where you are fairly autonomous
<mungbean> my previous role in the large company manged that and was my best job ever
<dwatkins> in support, we constantly have to justify our existence, and log time spent in some way or other
<MooDoo> dwatkins: you at a uni/school as well?
<Laney> xnox: you coming tomorrow?
<MooDoo> Laney: you're in notts aren't you or am I going mad?
<Laney> yes
<Laney> you've asked me that quite a few times before :P
<MooDoo> Laney: armed forces day?
<MooDoo> Laney: i'm old and senile ;)
<Laney> I'm asking him about https://hackntalkjune.eventbrite.com/
<MooDoo> Laney: /me shuts up
<Laney> heh
<Laney> I got annoyed yesterday with the city council's incessant tweeting about armed forces day
<mungbean> Laney: seems http://www.reddit.com/r/britishproblems/ is up your street
<Laney> :D
<Laney> I follow something like that on twitter
<directhex> i am the king of british problems
<directhex> the trick is it needs to be something utterly insignificant, and entirely uncommon to any other culture
<directhex> like... "my digestives keep dissolving in my tea before i can eat them". that's a canonical example
<Laney> There's definitely one around tasters of real ale
<Laney> Try two. Hate them both. Order a pint of one anyway because you don't want to admit it.
<mungbean> function of weather,marmite, tea, crisps, beer prices,
<directhex> mungbean, yeah, you got it!
<directhex> e.g. http://www.reddit.com/r/britishproblems/comments/uw37p/i_need_to_empty_the_bins_but_its_really_rainy_out/
<mungbean> gets dull after a while
<mungbean> i downvote all the tea ones
<directhex> i liked http://www.reddit.com/r/britishproblems/comments/1fkm5t/four_shires_magazine_is_available_in_five/ that's one of my best
<mungbean> mainly cos i hate tea, thats a british problem in itself
<directhex> it's painfully middle-class, for an extra boost
<directhex> and related to http://www.reddit.com/r/britishproblems/comments/1204ii/the_only_magazines_at_the_doctors_surgery_are/
 * DJones wonders if its worth starting a petition to move Wimbledon Fortnight and Glastonbury to wintertime, every year it comes around and the uk weather turns very wet, at least if they were in winter, we'd expect the rain and it wouldn't ruin the annual 2 weeks of sunshine
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> Wah, new version of Chromium has window decorations
<bigcalm> Fear change
<JAMESTAIT> DJones, +1
<diplo> Hi guys, any help would be appreciated
<diplo> of one anyway because you don't want to admit it.
<diplo> hmm :/
<diplo> paste fail
<diplo> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5807205/
<diplo> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/14543767/beautifulsoup-extracting-value-from-children-nodes
<diplo> Basically, I want to extract data from that page from the span class=Label33
<diplo> And all child elements, from everywhere I read that works
<diplo> But.. it only displays the first element
<diplo> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5807207/
<diplo> _any_ help would be aprreciated, I've tried loads of different ways.. I either get the whole page or just the first element.
<mungbean> it has to be python?
<bigcalm> jQuery!
<popey> minecraft!
<popey> oh, wrong thing
<mungbean> curl/php
<mungbean> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9515891/how-to-use-curl-to-fetch-specific-data-from-a-website-and-then-save-it-my-databa
<JAMESTAIT> diplo, have you tried iterating over results instead of just printing it?
<JAMESTAIT> diplo, it could be that it's doing something funky in __str__
<diplo> mungbean: Anything :) - will check that link
<diplo> JAMESTAIT: Yep, but all I've read is it wants to know specific tags
<diplo> Different pages have different results
<bigcalm> Somebody, who isn't me, suggesting a PHP route? What is the world coming to?
<JAMESTAIT> diplo, actually, looking at the source for that page, there is only one span with class="Label33"
<JAMESTAIT> Oh, ignore me.
<MooDoo> JAMESTAIT: who what? ;)
<JAMESTAIT> It's the children you're after. :)
<JAMESTAIT> MooDoo, shhh, you'll blow my cover. ;)
<MooDoo> lol
<diplo> Yep :/
<xnox> Laney: i'm not =( well... i can pop in for an hour between 11 and 12, but then I'm off to http://londoncommunitypride.org/
<Laney> SHOCKING!
<Laney> haha, that was a surprising lead image to see :P
<bigcalm> Laney: really?
<Laney> yes?
<bigcalm> No?
<Laney> oh sorry I lied about being surprised
<Laney> thanks for correcting me
<bigcalm> ...
<bigcalm> You go to a Gay Pride website and are surprised so see that image. I'm surprised by your surprise
<MooDoo> does good still change the search bar when you type in gay?
<MooDoo> google i meant
<bigcalm> Yes
<MooDoo> cool :)
<bigcalm> MooDoo: as do 'lesbian' and 'lgbt'
<mungbean> wow, go away for 5 mins and the convo is not about php any more...
<MooDoo> bigcalm: just read about it on the news the other day, think it was due to something about same sex marriage in the us or something
<JAMESTAIT> diplo, http://paste.ubuntu.com/5807267/
<directhex> search for "tilt"
<mungbean> barrel roll
<bigcalm> +do a
<directhex> peppy hare has a lot to answer for. teaching kids that an aileron roll is called a barrel roll
<bigcalm> mungbean: it even did it on my phone!
<mungbean> 2 different things
<diplo> thank you JAMESTAIT, just locating pyquery
<bigcalm> JAMESTAIT: are you in a shouty mood today?
<MooDoo> bigcalm: it's CAPITAL letters day
<JAMESTAIT> bigcalm, did no-one tell you?
<JAMESTAIT> bigcalm, it's CAPS LOCK DAY! :)
<popey> xnox: looks like the weather might hold out for pride tomorrow!
<popey> ACCORDING TO MY UBUNTU PHONE WEATHER APP!
 * JAMESTAIT ignores popey.
<MooDoo> hope it's ok in Nottingham it's ARMED FORCES DAY!
<xnox> Laney: they changed the image, previous one was less bewilderment "two brides, changing banner to two topless guys hugging"
<knightwise> MY WIFES GRANDMA CELEBRATES CAPS LOCK DAY ON FACEBOOK ALL YEAR LONG
<JAMESTAIT> diplo, sorry, I missed your response. python-pyquery in the archives, or pip install pyquery ;)
<Laney> xnox: I don't see topless guys, just an extreme closeup of a snog (and further down, some dismembered feet)
<mungbean> always seems to be sex and promsicuity obsessed
<diplo> Couldn't find in the archives, installed pip
<diplo> ta
<popey> "Please note the following arrangements are strictly for older members of the LGBT+ community and are being provided by Opening Doors London."
<popey> hehe
<Laney> anyway, I bet such things are quite a laugh
<Laney> possibly in a different way to hackntalk ...
<popey> yeah, I'd expect so
<popey> hehe
<mungbean> i think in a few years the gay community will regret the over sexualised image that they have created
<popey> like there isn't a secualised image of straight women?
<popey> *sexualised
<directhex> boobies!
<xnox> mungbean: yeah, makes the whole compaign for marriage weird.
<mungbean> what i mean is that sexual orientation is not related to your sex and weirdness drive
<xnox> Laney: yeah, they changed to a snog and I don't know why =/
<mungbean> but they have created an environmnent, which TV exacerbates, that gay = camp, shagging machine
<directhex> you can't fill out a 44 minute tv show with "they're identical, except they like the same sex". you gotta stress differences for ratings!
<mungbean> as evidenced by lurid costumes and displays of snogging on this event
<directhex> get a reacttion! make money!
<mungbean> lots of men in small pants
<directhex> that was awesomely out of context for dogmatic69
<bigcalm> :D
<bigcalm> Gain weight and all existing pants feel small
<directhex> anyway, the sexualization of "gay culture" is largely an aggressive push back against being marginalized, i.e. "you want us to hide who we are and pretend we don't exist, because gayness makes you uncomfortable? LOOK AT MY FABULOUS CROTCH"
<dogmatic69> ?
<mungbean> yes, which is what happened when kids came "out" at school
<mungbean> suddenly turned into innuendo machines
<xnox> http://www.upworthy.com/so-sweet-high-schoolers-prove-that-equality-is-the-cutest
<Laney> I want to click "I Disagree" just to see what happens
 * Laney does that in a private window
<popey> heh
<popey> i always close those, they annoy me
<Laney> it just dismisses it
<bigcalm> They almost always make me instantly close the site
<popey> you thought it might berate you? â»
<Laney> yeah, and possibly set a cookie so that you continue to get abused in future
<popey> It's like when a homeless / beggar on the street calls out to you "Do you want to make the world a better place?". I invariably say "Nope!"
<mungbean> what's the beggars plan?
<mungbean> i remember a beggar in machester i used to give to (naively)
<bigcalm> Making the world a better place for themselves
<popey> Engage in conversation I suspect.
<MooDoo> mungbean: begger wearing nikes?
<mungbean> then i saw a programme where he owned a flat, he biked to "work" and parked round the corner, and begged, earning Â£Â£Â£ tax free
<popey> I am not judging them, I just don't like people trying to force me to have a conversation by asking provocative questions, that's all.
<mungbean> +1
<mungbean> i blank everybody in the street
<mungbean> its london
<bigcalm> :)
<bigcalm> There's something about that place that makes me want to get from A to B as quickly as possible without interacting with the natives
<mungbean> i hate travel in any form
<mungbean> outside bethnal green there are 6 resident alcy's
<mungbean> i wonder where they sleep
<mungbean> they are like digby chicken caesar from the mitchell and webb prog
<Laney> how bad would it be to boris bike from st pancras to the google place where hackntalk is?
<mungbean> victoria?
<mungbean> try it, the good thing about boris bike is you can ditch it at a slot somwehere if you wanna give up
<Laney> http://goo.gl/maps/0l7UL
<bigcalm> The route makes you go left on City Road from Featherstone Street and then u-turn. How odd
<mungbean> oh near old st
<mungbean> Join us at Googleâs Campus workspace in the heart of East Londonâs Tech City for a day long technology unconference and workshop. This exciting venue is home to a number of high tech companies and surrounded by the startup rich environment of Londonâs Silicon Roundabout.
<mungbean> Hackntalk will be a day full of enjoyable talks, demonstrations and hacking on fun projects with enthusiastic people gathering together to share their  experiences.
<mungbean> looks good
<bigcalm> Silicon Roundabout. Bwuhahaha
<BigRedS> Laney: fine
<BigRedS> it's not hugely far, but it's not a brilliant road either
<mungbean> lame name investned by poltiicians
<Laney> seems ok from the map
<BigRedS> you basically go down pentonville road to old street and turn right
<Laney> i saw that silicon roundabout last time i was in london
<Laney> looked pretty grim to me
<mungbean> hipster territory
<mungbean> it is well grim
<bigcalm> Sounds slippery
<Laney> egads my train is at 0728
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> Happy Friday
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: tis nearly the weekend \o/
<MooDoo> davmor2: indeed :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: linux install fest weekend lol
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: oh that sounds fun :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: fed up with the SGS3 freezing so frequently, I'm going to send it back to t-mobile for 2 weeks
<davmor2> bigcalm: I blame it being white ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: nah not really
<davmor2> bigcalm: I'd lend you mine for a fortnight so you could see what it's like when it works :D
<bigcalm> Â¬.Â¬
<popey> want to borrow my iphone â»
<davmor2> MooDoo: oh come on it'll be fun
<bigcalm> I'm actually going to be using my old Nokia I had sold to my Dad
<xnox> Laney: that cycle ride is fine.
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah it will, fedora always rocks :p
<davmor2> MooDoo: and that's why you install Ubuntu right cause it's stable no rocking there at all :D
<Laney> xnox: sweet
<Laney> xnox: I expect getting lost will be a bigger problem than the roads themselves
<MooDoo> davmor2: fedora is stable too, don't knock it, it's just different that's all
<davmor2> MooDoo: you said it rocks not me ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: :p smart arse
<davmor2> MooDoo: it's sitting on the #naughtystep all the time that does I blame czajkowski
<czajkowski> yeah yea :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: czajkowski is always naughty according to you
<MooDoo> czajkowski: how's the mongo stuff going?  you enjoying yourself?
<davmor2> MooDoo: that's cause it's always czajkowski that tells us to go to the naughty step :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: well i think czajkowski is lovely :p
<xnox> czajkowski: everyone on ubuntu/debian is waiting for https://jira.mongodb.org/browse/SERVER-8886 to be resolved =) than we can have "normal" mongodb in the archive with ssl support ;-)
<davmor2> xnox: just assign the bug to czajkowski and ask her everyday if she has fixed it ;)
 * davmor2 braces himself for the impend wallop
<xnox> davmor2: the assignee is correct. I'd wish czajkowski could make it part of the 2.4.5 & 2.5.0 releases, instead of .6 and .1 ;-)
<davmor2> impending even
<davmor2> xnox: :)
<xnox> did you think we would stop annoying you about $work stuff on $non-work channels? =)))))
<davmor2> xnox: That sentence is too long, you can cut it before the about :D
 * davmor2 hugs czajkowski 
<MooDoo> davmor2: careful, she'll wallop you
<czajkowski> xnox: you asked in #mongodb
<xnox> czajkowski: nah, they all hate me =)
<czajkowski> I do love jira though
<mgdm> you're weird
<mgdm> ;-)
<czajkowski> hello
<czajkowski> :)
<bigcalm> Is there a trick to get paste.ubuntu.com to syntax highlight PHP code?
<mungbean> wow..."Though Windows 8.1 Preview ships with the optional $10 Media Center pack (and its DVD-playing capabilities) installed, Microsoft has still given no indication that the release version will restore the ability to play DVDs. And you can't even install the Media Center pack unless you're running the $200 Windows 8 Pro, which costs $80 more than the vanilla version of Windows 8"
<bigcalm> Step away from Windows and everybody gets to live
<bigcalm> happy lives
<MooDoo> mungbean: doesn't work for en-GB users without having to manually install it, then it's a 2.5 gb download
<MooDoo> and tweak stuff
<mungbean> or VLC
<dogmatic69> anyone know why the system monitor does not have the 'system' tab anymore?
<directhex> it was scary and complicated!
<dwatkins> it gave people the fear
<mungbean> are the spec.org results per core or a sum over all cores
<mungbean> (i think its the latter)
<awilkins> Could one of the Americans in the channel send me the SHA-256 fingerprint of the google.com SSL cert?
<awilkins> Not sure how to get hold of it from the UK when google.com always redirects to google.co.uk
<dwatkins> I get redirected to google.ie, but it asks if I want to continue using google.co.uk
<dwatkins> I'm in the UK but my internets go through Dublin.
<popey> you can override the redirect
<dwatkins> https://www.google.com/?hl=en-US should do it
<awilkins> ta
<dwatkins> teamwork
<MooDoo> highfive o/
<dwatkins> \o win
<mungbean> \o misses
<awilkins> Anyone heard of Troxo software?
<awilkins> The background is that we spotted that a server was connecting to a particular IP address a lot
<awilkins> https://176.221.86.38/
<awilkins> So, the plain page is "Database error"
<awilkins> Then it was a 302 redirect to google.com
<popey> http://www.atomia.com/
<popey> them
 * awilkins wonders why this crap is on our server
<awilkins> The "SYSTEM" process (basically the kernel) was connecting to an HTTPS port on their secure server
<awilkins> (This is a Windows box, apologies for the taint)
<awilkins> Their HTTPS port was handing out the cert for google.com for a while today
<popey> nice
<awilkins> And their plain port was redirecting to google.com
<awilkins> To me it just smacks of rootkit
<jpds> awilkins: Shut down, everything.
<popey> "IISPassword by Troxo is the add on for Microsoft IIS which password protects contents without using system user accounts. "
<awilkins> Yes, we seem to have that
<awilkins> It's .htaccess for IIS by the look of it
<shauno> that's what that address is giving me; an expired cert for secure.troxo.com
<shauno> expired in 2010 :/
<popey> the company got bought by the look of it
<popey> so they probably lapsed as they moved over to their new domain at atomia
<awilkins> This all stimulated by a sudden flurry of warnings from our server monitoring which keeps deciding our web servers are down
<awilkins> I'm guessing this is because the monitor is in a different datacentre to the web servers and the network has it's knickers in a twist, because they are all vsible from the Greater Internet
<awilkins> But networks said "Hey, that server keeps trying to connect to <that IP> but we're blocking that at the firewall"
<mungbean> 5 of us in the office, nobody spoken for 1 1/2 hours...peace :D
<bigcalm> \o/
<mungbean> makes a change from the last office i just moved from which was like a pub
<popey> 1 of me in the house, nobody has spoken for 7 hours
<dwatkins> the guy who sits next to me hums randomly, he doesn't even realise he's doing it
<dwatkins> I ask him to stop, he apologises, it stops for about 30 seconds
<mungbean> are you even dresed popey
<popey> yes â»
<mungbean> if i worked at home i would buy more pyjamas
<mungbean> change into the work pyjamas to start the day
<dwatkins> get a pyjama suit
<shauno> if I worked at home I'd probably get fired :/   I'm not sure it's for everyone
<mgdm> "The internet, where no-one knows you're sitting at home in a onsie"
<dwatkins> http://files.broadsheet.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Armani-Suitjamas-2.jpg
<dwatkins> I sometimes work from home if I have a delivery or something like that, or I'm on-call at the weekend. I try not to do it too much, in case I suddenly need to have a day at home at a moment's notice.
 * awilkins is at home pounding out CHVRCHES on YouTube
<dwatkins> I'm in a shared office, listening to Epic Trance on my phone.
<dwatkins> http://www.di.fm/
<shauno> I just get all my deliveries sent to work these days.  works out much easier
<dwatkins> Most of my deliveries go to work, yeah.
 * mgdm is in a large open-plan office with headphones on and (currently) Orbital
<shauno> unless it's something I really don't want to lump home, since I walk
<awilkins> We're not allowed to send personal deliveries to work.. Silly, innit.
<dwatkins> the guy who hums suggested I listen to http://coffitivity.com/ (people talking in a coffee shop) but it's worse than hearing humming quietly
<dwatkins> http://rainymood.com/ is quite nice
<mungbean> does he hum because he is wearing headphones
<awilkins> Pink noise generate app
<mungbean> 3d gun printing app
<bigcalm> dwatkins: is there meant to be audio with that video?
<mgdm> dwatkins: that's insane
 * bigcalm kicks Chromium
<dwatkins> bigcalm: which video?
<bigcalm> dwatkins: your last link
<bigcalm> No audio in Chromium, works in Firefox
<dwatkins> oh sorry, didn't think of rainymood as a video, but yes - it has audio (the sound of rain, naturally)
<dwatkins> I think you can turn on music as well at the bottom
<mungbean> clementine has rain or hypnotoad
<bigcalm> I recall there being a utility to create sound scapes
<mungbean> almost had a heart attack when i engaged hypnotoad and my speakers were on full
<mungbean> never again
<dwatkins> that website has a link to their iOS app which plays rain sounds, they also have one which plays white noise
<bigcalm> I've just found some rain mp3s I recorded a few years ago. http://lazygnome.net/rain/
 * MartijnVdS has a CD with two thunderstorms from the 1980s
<bigcalm> Funnily enough, I recorded those on my iRiver :D
<dwatkins> There are some good (and some terrible) recordings of rain on youtube.
<mungbean> \o/
<mungbean> my iriver got nicked :(
<dwatkins> bah
<mungbean> but i got a cowon iaudio instead \o/
<awilkins> You have to install the "evil" media pack for Chromium to get all the codecs, don't you
<awilkins> Vine didn't work until I did that
<awilkins> I have a really old 1GB iRiver flash player I use for workouts
 * popey hugs his iRiver iHP-140
<mungbean> is that the brick?
<mungbean> think thats what i had
<popey> black coloured thing with joysick on the front
<mungbean> with a remote control that did more than most mp3 players
<awilkins> well, the bloody stupid auto-update "zombie trojan" windows service episode has eaten 3 hours of my day
<mungbean> and optical in
<popey> and out
<mungbean> the cowon iaudio is an excellent replacment though, only 16gb flash but amazing battery
<awilkins> Auto-updaters that run as the SYSTEM account - Bad and Wrong
<awilkins> Windows suffers so much from not having a proper package manager
<awilkins> all the hassle we get from our Security team can essentially be traced back to running web apps on IIS because it's such a massive PITA to keep up to date with security fixes for everything in the stack that we don't actually do it
 * awilkins shakes the ra-ra pom-poms for Linux
<awilkins> Or even running apps on Apache for Windows
<xnox> Browse the pics - it's hilarious http://www4.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201306277521344
<MooDoo> don't get it
<xnox> MooDoo: watch the number plates and how citroen becomes a peugeot
<mgdm> Nor I
<mgdm> Ah
<mgdm> yes
<MooDoo> ah lol
<bigcalm> In case there are any PHP devs in here looking for a change, we're hiring: http://hackerjobs.co.uk/jobs/2013/6/28/siftware-senior-php-developer-remote-working
<mgdm> Oh, that's you
<bigcalm> :)
<mgdm> "You will be expected to come up towards Shropshire" - 'up'
<mgdm> there's an assumption :P
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> Well, people say they are going 'up' to London
<bigcalm> Shropshire is far better
<shauno> I've always said down to london
 * mgdm too
<diplo> +1
<bigcalm> As do I
<bigcalm> One goes down south and up north
<bigcalm> I didn't write the job advert :P
<diplo> And it's basically east of me, not down or up :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Aye - as I live south of London I tend to go up to most places in the UK, possible down to Brighton and the west country but...
<diplo> weâre thinking Bath, Bristol, \o/
<diplo> :)
<shauno> kinda funny that we think of the map as being one big hill, but it works
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'm going to Plymouth week after next - that's a bloody long way down
<diplo> All my family are from there, long drive for you, it's 2 hours + for me :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Then up to Cardiff, then back down to home :-)
<diplo> jeesh
<BigRedS> I alwas work on the assumption that everywhere else is down from London
<directhex> mgdm, not such an assumption.
<directhex> the only way is up.
<bigcalm> Baby
<directhex> baby.
<directhex> bigcalm++++++
<bigcalm> :D
<directhex> AAAAAAAAAAA++++++++++ IRCer, would chat again
<TheOpenSourcerer> earworm here we come...
<bigcalm> LOL
 * brobostigon returneth
<brobostigon> sorry, wrong channel.
<shauno> is there a sensible way to firewall per-process?  preferably something GUIish
<BigRedS> you can do iptables per-user
<BigRedS> no idea of a gui that'll help with that, or if it's anywhere near useful for your problem
<davmor2> That's why the weather is so rotten then, Glastonbury and Wimbledon  we didn't stand a prayer
<Azelphur> hey folks, more issues with my 3TB hdds
<Azelphur> just noticed...my server seems to think they are 2TB :(
<Azelphur> looking at the byte count, I think it's stuck by some 32bit limit?
<Azelphur>    Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
<Azelphur> /dev/sdb1            2048  4294967294  2147482623+  83  Linux
<dwatkins> Azelphur: what's the blocksize?
<Azelphur> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5808525/ there's all the info
<Azelphur> missing some TB's :P
<awilkins> Well, there's the + at the end
<awilkins> Does that mean "more than this number of blocks"
<awilkins> Presume you have GPT partitition tables on them
<MartijnVdS> You need GPT partition tables
<MartijnVdS> because "old-style" BIOS partition tables only go up to 2T
<awilkins> Not sure if fdisk -l reports block in 1k increments or 1 block (where block size is 4096 bytes here(
<MartijnVdS> parted will tell you if it's gpt though
<Azelphur> awilkins: don't think I do
<Azelphur> http://pastebin.com/HmMTcaJy
 * Azelphur cries
<Azelphur> it just does not want to behave, haha
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: fuser -a ?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: doesn't say anything, what does -a do?
<MartijnVdS> "all"
<Azelphur> o.O
<MartijnVdS> so it should show who/what's using it
<Azelphur> well fuser -a /media/012266c8-4878-44d0-8943-98db44a6a1b8/ shows nothing
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: in that case: umount -l ;)
<Azelphur> cool :)
<ali1234> i have now officially rage quit all build systems and making my own :(
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: but.. ExtUtils::MakeMaker!
<ali1234> make sucks
<MartijnVdS> hence the wrapper
<ali1234> also that looks suspiciously like perl
<MartijnVdS> <3
<ali1234> NO
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: aww
<ali1234> all i want is a system whereby i can define that $1-$2.out is made by running a command in the form of foo $1.in -x $2
<ali1234> make cannot do this
<ali1234> it is probably the most requested feature of all time though judging by the number of people asking how to do it
<ali1234> here's an example: car1.body.mesh: car1.blend -> blender car1.blend --background --python export-mesh.py body
<ali1234> or another: car1-red.png: car1.xcf -> xcf2png car1.xcf -bg red
<ali1234> make cannot generalize these commands into single rules
<diddledan> really?
<ali1234> yes, really
<diddledan> that seems somewhat short sighted
<ali1234> i know right?
<diddledan> I figured that was the entire point of makefiles
<ali1234> well, it's not
<ali1234> there are some really horrible workarounds you can use
<diddledan> make it in bash :-p
<ali1234> like making a rule for every possible background colour
<ali1234> which can be automated with more horrible workarounds
<diddledan> ouch
<ali1234> i'm doing it in python
<diddledan> I really should learn python sometime
<diddledan> and ruby
<diddledan> and ruby-on-rails (I specifically separate those two)
<ali1234> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3064403/makefile-generic-pattern-rule-xyzzy-en-us-ext2-from-xyzzy-ext0
<diddledan> yey for the xyzzy cheat code appearing yet again
<diddledan> colossal cave was the originator of that in case you wondered
<diddledan> or was it colossal adventure
<ali1234> i thought it was zork
<ali1234> but i suppose that was a loving rip off
<diddledan> I think colossal predates it
<diddledan> though probably not by much
<diddledan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xyzzy
<diddledan> "Gmail lists XYZZY as a capability when connected via IMAP before logging in. It takes no arguments, and responds with "OK Nothing happens.""
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> then there's the chromebook cr-48 - https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/aFmEJctDQJIfB8jhxHp00z2uFj-YG2MT90kC84ZROVE?feat=directlink
<MartijnVdS> haha :)
<diddledan> there's a hidden message on that page apparently: http://blog.wellsb.com/post/6161876985/how-i-cracked-the-cr-48-easter-egg (at the bottom)
<redtape|renegade> Yay I just bought a netbook to have a challenge with . \o/
<diddledan> you can still buy netbooks?
<redtape|renegade> Here it is .. http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0090463E4/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
<redtape|renegade> and here is the challenge ... ::: http://liliputing.com/2012/06/arch-linux-on-a-66-wm8650-netbook.html :::
<redtape|renegade> only cost Â£28.00 so I can sell it again if needs be .. (usu. go for Â£35 on ebay)  .. but this one fell thru the net.
<redtape|renegade> diddledan: OT : Here's why you 'can' buy them from .. http://bit.ly/18l6aRs | But you'll probably say that's pants .. which I would agree.
<redtape|renegade> mmmpft .. Everyone must be getting drunk ... redtape shrugs.
<diddledan> just watching the trailer of cloud atlas - looks good
<redtape|renegade> who's in it ?
<diddledan> tom hanks and halle berry top the list
<redtape|renegade> oh yeah, It's about that time/space fate thingy .. looks ok ..
<diddledan> even huff grant and susan sarandon
<redtape|renegade> i'll google them ...
<diddledan> don't tell me hugh doesn't spell huff!
<diddledan> jim broadbent is in there too
<diddledan> hugo weaving
<diddledan> written and directed by the wachowski (matrix) brothers alongside one tom tykwer
<diddledan> I always think lana wachowski has a girl's name tho - lana always sounds feminine to me
<redtape|renegade> yeah, they all sound good .. I just hate it when they talk politik , as if I care !  .. redtape like's the matrix reference thou  ..
<ali1234> diddledan: he used to be called larry
<diddledan> now if only there was a movie download service that I could pay for it and still use/watch it in ubuntu
<diddledan> ho hum
<redtape|renegade> does netflix work with vpn ?
<redtape|renegade> has anyone tried ?
<redtape|renegade> furthermore does anyone give a ***
<diddledan> netflix is launched in the uk now
<redtape|renegade> not with the same catalogue <-- that's my point.
<diddledan> aaah
<diddledan> ali1234: he get the snip?
<diddledan> I didn't know v for vendetta was a wachowski collab
<mungbean> theres a chrome plugin thing
<mungbean> for US ntflx
<redtape|renegade> I found a a typing tutor that is helping me .. that's a chrome browser app.
<redtape|renegade> I never thought all the browser apps and extensions would be any good .. but they are not too bad tbh.
<diddledan> my favourite browser thingy is lastpass - I pay to get the mobile version on my galaxy nexus and nexus7 and iphone and ipad - makes remembering the multitude of passwords much easier, and apart from having all the data in one place it allows me to use more secure passwords for individual services (understanding that they're only as secure as my lastpass password)
<mungbean> they got hacked once
<redtape|renegade> yep , i agree..
<redtape|renegade> but mungbean is right .. also i hate mobiles.. but that's my fault not yours.
<mungbean> http://hola.org/
<redtape|renegade> might change with the Uber phone.
<mungbean> ^^ thats for netflix
<mungbean> sorry wrong link
<mungbean> https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/hola-unblocker/gkojfkhlekighikafcpjkiklfbnlmeio?hl=en
<diddledan> so it's similar to tor?
<redtape|renegade> with 1/3 of a million users .. I guess it must be ..
<redtape|renegade> OT : I'm going to watch trains tomorrow with Nephew .. probably Thomas and the like .. http://bit.ly/14Be0Az
 * redtape|renegade notes to get the camera sorted out for that trip..
 * redtape|renegade scurries off before he feels the wrath of other nerds ...
<redtape|renegade> leaves.
<mungbean> anyone know how to use factoids plugin for supybot?
<DJones> mungbean: How to set it up or how to just get info out?
<mungbean> sorted it
<mungbean> doesn't work nicely like lubotu3
<mungbean> i have to say "bot: whatis blah"
<DJones> mungbean: http://ubottu.com/devel/wiki/Plugins#Aliasing_one_factoid_to_anotherAh
<DJones> Grr
<DJones> Ah
<DJones> I was just digging out my links to how to set a bot up
<mungbean> ah thanks
<mungbean> lubotu3 has a snarfer for !commands
<lubotu3> mungbean: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<diddledan> I think that statement proves lubotu3 's point
<mungbean> hehe
<mungbean> i run a bot in a work chan
<mungbean> he is growing in ability
<mungbean> favourite plugin is urbandictionary
<diddledan> methinks it should match "<nick><punctuation>" rather than just "<nick> "
<mungbean> lubotu3: meh
<DJones> diddledan: Oh I don't know, I'm sure the bots are more than capeable of responding better than a lot of users
<mungbean> no, it matched the ! <
<mungbean> !raring
<lubotu3> Ubuntu 13.04 (Raring Ringtail) is the current release of Ubuntu. Download http://releases.ubuntu.com/13.04/ - Release notes: http://ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/13.04
<mungbean> !current
<mungbean> !latest
<lubotu3> Packages in Ubuntu may not be the latest. Ubuntu aims for stability, so "latest" may not be a good idea. Post-release updates are only considered if they are fixes for security vulnerabilities, high impact bug fixes, or unintrusive bug fixes with substantial benefit. See also !backports, !sru, and !ppa.
<DJones> Normally its something like "!factoid | nickname" or "!factoid > nickname"
<brobostigon> cool, john paul jones, playing with seasick steve at glastobury.
<DJones> If you want to pipe it to a specific user
<mungbean> right, baby asleep time for speed painting of my spitfire
<diddledan> that's bound to end in disaster
<mungbean> just doing second coats on some small parts
 * DJones moves to America to enjoy the 53C temperatures expected in Death Valley https://twitter.com/BBCNewsUS/status/350713660815048704/photo/1
<mungbean> baby crying
<mungbean> fail
<Azelphur> blimey, two (D)DoS attacks against my server this month, seems I'm getting popular.
<diddledan> Azelphur: do you have anything special there that makes you so popular?
<Azelphur> game servers
<diddledan> aah
<Azelphur> funny part is DDoS attacks usually come with threats/demands, these ones are just random
<Azelphur> not that it matters, they've had no effect on services, it's odd.
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5809419/
<ali1234> here is my amazing make replacement :)
<shauno> because the world was begging for another *make ;)
<shauno> I think I have three, and I'm sure I'm missing some
#ubuntu-uk 2013-06-29
<ali1234> why doesn't make set $PWD when you do make -C?
<AlanBell> morning all
<Laney> grugrgrhgr
<AlanBell> o/ Laney
<Laney> hallo
<AlanBell> lots of saucy updates today for this laptop
<Laney> lots of people getting on at market harborough
<Laney> i think i might lose my luxurious table all to myself
<AlanBell> :)
<AlanBell> how do I make a libreoffice presentation loop?
<AlanBell> ah, type = auto
<MartijnVdS> \o
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MartijnVdS> hi brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> my The Fault in Our Stars audiobook special edition arrived \o/
<brobostigon> did you see seasick steve and john paul jones play glastonbury last night, MartijnVdS . you would have liked it.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I didn't, I went to bed early
<brobostigon> ahm ohwell. i just found the video of it, on the bbc website, so it can be rewatched.
<MartijnVdS> yeah, \o/ iplayer ;)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: watch out for Ed Harcourt today (tomorrow?)
<brobostigon> it on the bbc glastonbury event page.
<brobostigon> bbc.co.uk/events/ej58q9
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: interesting, i will do,
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: http://www.bbc.co.uk/events/ej58q9/acts/a8jq2m
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: thank you.
<SuperEngineer> ...or as I am currently doing... bbc.co.uk/events/ej58q9
<SuperEngineer> morning peeps
<SuperEngineer> get-iplayer --get 347  [actually]
<brobostigon> --nopurge*
<SuperEngineer> ;)
 * SuperEngineer hates getting card in yesyerday's post from sorting office - "The sender didn't pay the full postage - payment due Â£1.09"
<SuperEngineer> ...& they don't even mention originating postmark to see if it's worthwhile getting!
<SuperEngineer> [knowing my luck - it's a speeding fine - cheapskates if so - and leave at sorting office]
<SuperEngineer> Silverstone P3 on beeb2
<SuperEngineer> bbs - off to get snacks & beers ready for Qualifying & tommorow's F1 live coverage
<SuperMatt> did anything weird happen with freenode a short while ago?
<brobostigon> not that i noticed, why?
<SuperMatt> hmmm
<SuperMatt> my irssi isn't connecting to either freenode or darkmyst
<SuperMatt> and my local irc can't connect to darkmyst right now
<brobostigon> well, you are connected here, so there might have been a network interruption with the server you were trying to connect to?
<brobostigon> dns issue ?
<SuperMatt> I'm thinking dns cos I can't get to www.darkmyst.org right now
<brobostigon> ok.
<SuperMatt> but it's weird, it can't be my ISP because my server and localhost are on different networks (I think)
<SuperMatt> well, it is quite weird because I can't even whois my server's ip address
<brobostigon> what dns servers are you using?
<SuperMatt> the standard ones for my isp
<SuperMatt> I think I'm gonna add 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4
<brobostigon> ah, ok. i have my setup here, to tell all connected machines to use google dns.
<SuperMatt> hmmm... I'm not sure how to get my server to start using 8.8.8.8. I've added it /etc/dhcp/dhclient.conf, but when I restart networking, it still uses the old one
<brobostigon> i use hostapd here.
<brobostigon> the dns here is set inside that, that it gives out to clients.
<SuperMatt> ah, I need to reboot that server anyway
<popey> pip pip
<czajkowski> chirrooo
 * penguin42 hands czajkowski a tissue
 * penguin42 gets bugged into upgrading my Dad's ancient machine - looks like it'll only boot off CD
<penguin42> I think I'll try booting off an Ubuntu server cd
 * penguin42 fails to find the md5sum or signed hash of the iso on the download page
<BigRedS> I don't think I've ever checked the md5sum of an ISO before using it
<penguin42> ah, so you don't know if someone has injected something nasty
<BigRedS> nah, but if I get the md5sum from the same place that wouldn't be particularly reassuing in any case
<penguin42> BigRedS: But if it's in a signed file with a signature tyable back to the public key tree then you can
<penguin42> BigRedS: actually, here's the daily set - http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-server/daily/current/  see there is a MD5SUMS (and SHA256SUMS) and a SHA256SUMS.gpg
<BigRedS> oh yeah, there generally is in the dir, it's just not linked to from the pretty download page
<penguin42> problem is finding the dir - it's not in the download URL - and I still can't find this one
<penguin42> ahha http://releases.ubuntu.com/precise/
<Azelphur> Anyone what channel would be good to talk about xrandr stuff?
<penguin42> ubuntu-x ?
<Azelphur> good idea
<penguin42> out of interest what was the question?
<awilkins> 42
<awilkins> Wait, that was the answer
<MartijnVdS> Wow, it's obvious the freeradius mailing list does not have a CoC
<BigRedS> angry sarcasm is a required feature of a tech mailing list, isn't it?
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: this is "Read the docs or I'll unsubscribe you"
<penguin42> sarcasm? On a mailing list? Never....
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: and then "No really READ THE DOCS"
<BigRedS> oh, that's not even no CoC, that's bad moderators, surely?
<MartijnVdS> well if you're one of the main project guys..
<MartijnVdS> anyway
<MartijnVdS> it's not helping me find answers to my questions very well ;)
<StevenR> MartijnVdS: what's the problem?
<MartijnVdS> because, sure it's documented.. by I need a map :)
<MartijnVdS> StevenR: I want to know if there's something that works like "Expiration" (which disables an account after the set time), but for *enabling* it only after a certain time
<MartijnVdS> I'd call it "not-valid-before"
<StevenR> MartijnVdS: i.e. you can only get accepted by the freeradius server after 9am?
<StevenR> MartijnVdS: Ubuntu? (Which version?)
<MartijnVdS> StevenR: it's for camping guests, who get login tickets that should only work during the time they've reserved
<MartijnVdS> StevenR: 12.04
<MartijnVdS> I could use a second table/database and only export to the "real" tables when it's time
<MartijnVdS> but that's a hassle and if it's avoidable.. well ;)
<MartijnVdS> oh, it looks like the 'Expiration' module should be able to do it, with some custom SQL, maybe
<StevenR> MartijnVdS: hmmm. not sure off hand. Just spinning up a VM (I managed the freeradius box at work)
<MartijnVdS> StevenR: I like that the default configs refer to my home town (where Cistron, my old employer) was based, who wrote lots of RADIUS stuff ;)
<StevenR> hehe
<penguin42> right, dads old machine mostly upgraded - Ubuntu Server+Mate desktop
<SuperEngineer> just realised I'm done to my last .5GB on U1 - but it seems to be enough for needs so far
<SuperEngineer> *down
<penguin42> installing old machines is a PITA; won't boot off USB, or it's DVD drive, and it turns out it's CDROM drive was slightly but not completely knackered
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: what you need is a pitta bread [PITA/pitta - get it?] - stuff it in the drive & let it know what you think!
<MartijnVdS> almost, but not quite, entirely knackered
<penguin42> me too, from doing nothing - I think maybe a bit of a cold
<bigcalm> Hello peeps :)
<penguin42> Hey bc
<bigcalm> Hola
<popey> evening
<bigcalm> Howdy
<bigcalm> Eep, almost time for the cinema. Best have some grub
<popey> We went to see Dispicable Me 2 today with the kids
<popey> fun
<bigcalm> That's what Hayley and I are off to watch now :D
<bigcalm> Toodles
<ali1234> why doesn't pngcrush support reading png data from stdin?
<ali1234> answer: becqause libpng requires that ftell works on the input file stream
<zleap> hi
 * penguin42 almost feels sorry enough to tell Currys/pcworld all their adds go to http.com
<Laney> hoooooooooooooooooooooooooomeward bound
<penguin42> you're sitting on a railway station with a ticket for your destination?
<DJones> Hmmh, Homeward Bound.. A song written at a nearby railway station
<Laney> oh god
<Laney> just accidently played music out of my laptop to the carriage
<popey> hah
<Laney> was listening to it through the phone
<popey> i did that once, when my headphones weren't plugged in fully
<Laney> nobody said a word
<popey> "man, this is quiet" *turns up volume*
<Laney> must have been a good 10 minutes
<Laney> haha
<SuperEngineer> talking of which - BBC coverage of Glastonbury continues now [on red button 301]
<Laney> bedford: city of dreams
<YaManicKill> so this is a fun issue
<YaManicKill> just realised my server is still on 8.04
<YaManicKill> now, when I try and upgrade to 10.04, it doesn't seem to work
<YaManicKill> but I thought 10.04 server was supported till 2015
<penguin42> YaManicKill: Interesting you say that, I was trying to update my Dad's 11.04 to 12.04 and the updater couldn't find an upgrade
<penguin42> YaManicKill: I think if you installed a 10.04 it would upgrade, but yeh I wonder what the upgrade time frame is
<penguin42> I'd expected to be able to upgrade 11.04 to 12.04
<Laney> It goes a bit south when the release is EOL
<penguin42> nod, pity you'd kind of hope you'd be able to get out of EOL jail to a current in support one
<YaManicKill> yeah
<YaManicKill> I think you *need* to upgrade from 1 to the next, or 1 LTS to the next
<YaManicKill> which would mean 11.04 would have to go via 11.10, which is now EOL
<YaManicKill> I think they take the repos offline when it's EOL
<Laney> well, you can do that if you use old-releases.ubuntu.com in sources.list
<YaManicKill> but, 10.04 server isn't EOL till 2015
<Laney> not sure if update-manager will help you
<penguin42> YaManicKill: Yeh although I don't quite get why if it's EOLd why it still won't update to newer
<YaManicKill> oh wait...I think I've figured out my issue
<YaManicKill> wonky DNS servers :-P
<penguin42> haha
<YaManicKill> ignore me ;-)
<penguin42> sure - did someone hear something?
<YaManicKill> oh, more than just DNS..I forgot I had a static IP on there, and I've moved house so my gateway has changed
<YaManicKill> sigh
<YaManicKill> I am such a failure of a geek
<SuperEngineer> freeview 301 - primal Scream live at Glastonbury - now
<SuperEngineer> [live-ish]
<mungbean> evening
<ali1234> what does it mean when 'ls -l __pycache__' says this: -????????? ? ? ? ?            ? textures.cpython-33.pyc
<ali1234> and i can't cd into the directory or delete the files because permission denies
<ali1234> and why do i have a bad feeling that the filesystem is knackered?
<ali1234> nvm, i must have accidentally chmod u-x it somehow
<StevenR> MartijnVdS: what about the logintime module?
<StevenR> MartijnVdS: see /etc/freeradius/modules/logintime
<popey> evening
<mgdm> hi popey
<mgdm> :(
<Laney> why the left paren
<mgdm> I said hi to popey and then he left :P (though he appears to have since returned)
<Laney> that guy can't stay away
<Laney> http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/6550622/fbcfffab/rapper_komt_uit_de_kast.html
<popey> Êâ¿à² 
 * popey goes to be mr taxi man picking up the inlaws
<Azelphur> Hey folks, set up a VPN, got two Ubuntu machines (12.10 and 13.04), my 13.04 connects to the VPN, works fine, my friends 12.10 connects, get allocated an IP, and can't see anything on the network, at all
<ali1234> routing issues probably
<Azelphur> ali1234: anything specific to check?
<ali1234> route -n
<ali1234> i'm going to need to see a large amount of information about the networks involved in order to debug this
<Azelphur> yea, will get it for you, just getting him reconnected to my VPN again
<ali1234> the LAN configuration of each machine, the VPN network, route -n from every machine involved...
<ali1234> a diagram of how the topolofy is set out would be helpful too
<Azelphur> ali1234: I think I just realised the obvious, his network is 192.168.1.* and my network is 192.168.1.* too
<Azelphur> so I bet that's why
<ali1234> probably
<Azelphur> ali1234: how would I work around that? XD
<ali1234> well it should not really matter as long as the VPN is not 192.168.1.* as well
<ali1234> it depends what you are trying to do though
<Azelphur> ali1234: the VPN is hosted in my router, and the "Server IP" is set to 192.168.1.20
<ali1234> that does not mean much to me
<ali1234> i mean that could mean anything
<ali1234> what are you actually trying to do?
<Azelphur> ali1234: well, I'm trying to get him connected to my VPN so he can access my fileserver
<ali1234> ok
<ali1234> what is the VPN IP address of the fileserver?
<Azelphur> the fileserver isn't connected to the VPN, it's just on my local network
<Azelphur> the idea is that by connecting to the VPN, it brings you into my local network
<MonsterKiller> router -n: http://pastebin.com/SP7mmYyD
<ali1234> well then how do you expect him to be able to connect to it, if it isn';t on the VPN?
<MonsterKiller> route*
<Azelphur> ali1234: there ya go ^
<Azelphur> ali1234: it works fine from my phone on 3g, I've streamed stuff and I can communicate with it fine
<ali1234> yeah that's messed up
<ali1234> the VPN using 192.168.1.* is not a good idea
<Azelphur> I see
<Azelphur> what would you suggest?
<ali1234> but the underlying issue here is VPN isn't quite as simple as you think
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> I mean in theory I could just allocate some other address space, but that doesn't stop that address space being used in whatever network I'm connected to
<ali1234> yes, that is a problem
<ali1234> often with corporate VPNs they run two on different IP ranges for this reason
<ali1234> but you probably don't need that
<ali1234> just use 176 addreses, nobody ever uses those
<Azelphur> fun
<ali1234> i mean 172
<Azelphur> I see, sounds like a plan
<ali1234> you can probably even get away with a high 192 range
<Azelphur> so basically everything I want to be externally accessible I should have connected to the VPN
<Azelphur> and set up my VPN to allocate 172s?
<ali1234> that is the easy way to do it
<Azelphur> easy way is cool.
<ali1234> you can try to join together the networks using routing but that is hard and you will have more problems with addressing clashes
<ali1234> in this case if you did that one of you would have to renumber their network
<ali1234> so you don't want to do that
<Azelphur> ali1234: yea, I want something that works in as many networking scenarios as possible really
<Azelphur> I wanna be able to access it while I'm "out and about"
<ali1234> so yeah
<ali1234> put a VPN client on your file server and join it to he network
<ali1234> make sure VPN is using some obscure address range
<ali1234> and then you should be good
<Azelphur> righto, ty :)
<Azelphur> ali1234: another interesting conundrum, what I usually do is have a hostname, "server" which points at my server, and all my stuff is configured to connect to that, any idea how on earth I'd make that work?
<Azelphur> because when I'm inside the VPN, it obviously needs to be the 172 address, but when I'm at home, it needs to be the 192 address
<Azelphur> unless, I connect to my local VPN, all the time, even when at home
<ali1234> that is the easiest way
<Azelphur> just stay connected to it all the time?
<Azelphur> fair enough xD
<ali1234> you can also do it through DNS
<Azelphur> oh yea?
<ali1234> you will need to run DNS servers for that though
<Azelphur> yea, meh with that
<Azelphur> will just configure Ubuntu to VPN on startup I guess
<Azelphur> ali1234: making more progress, so I've got everyone connected on 172.16.77.x, I can ping MonsterKiller (.4), but I can't ping my server (.2), any ideas?
<ali1234> mtr
<Azelphur> ali1234: mtr to MonsterKiller (.4), 1. DD-WRT, 2. ???
<ali1234> route -n
<Azelphur> route -n on server (.2) http://pastebin.com/g1disMYZ
<ali1234> what is the second line
<Azelphur> ali1234: that IP is my routers public IP, dunno what significance it has.
<ali1234> it should not do anything
<ali1234> anyway you only have a route to 172.16.77.1
<ali1234> so pings will never come back
<ali1234> nor any other traffic
<Azelphur> hmm
<ali1234> if you log in to dd-wrt you can ping everyone
<ali1234> what is your route -n?
<ali1234> the question is do you even want everyone on the VPN to access each other's machines
<Azelphur> ali1234: yes, I want everyone to be able to talk to everyone
<ali1234> ok then you need the VPN server to tell the clients to add default network route
<ali1234> just for the 172 network though
<ali1234> you have to watch out for classful network though
<ali1234> what vpn client are you using?
<Azelphur> ali1234: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2013/Jun/2013-06-30-000706_893x626_scrot.png any idea how I'd do that given those options?
<ali1234> PPTP... hahahahaha
<ali1234> oh well
<Azelphur> :<
<Azelphur> ali1234: I have a OpenVPN option
<ali1234> it might be a setting on the client
<ali1234> in fact it probably is
<Azelphur> hmm
<ali1234> i bet monsterkiller set his end up using network manager
<ali1234> by default that will route all of your traffic through the VPN
<ali1234> which you do not want
<ali1234> however it will make it look like it is working
<Azelphur> ali1234: yea, everything is set up network manager
<ali1234> what about on the fileserver though?
<Azelphur> just did sudo pon home nodeattach
<ali1234> so yeah
<Azelphur> nodetach*
<ali1234> check the ipv4 setting in NM
<ali1234> click the routes button
<ali1234> look at the options
<ali1234> "only se for resources on the network"
<ali1234> "ignore automatic routes"
<ali1234> the first one will prevent all your traffic going through the VPN so turn it on
<ali1234> the second one will make it so that you don't get any automatic routes at all which is the situation you have on the fileserver
<ali1234> what's your route -n on your desktop?
<ali1234> btw, automatic routes don't come from the server with PPTP, it uses classful networking to guess what it should be
<Azelphur> trying to get that, difficult as my laptop isn't connected to the net :P
<ali1234> why not?
<ali1234> bah
<Azelphur> I have no idea
<ali1234> i'll tell you why: because all your traffic is going over the VPN
<ali1234> but the VPN won't allow you to access the net
<Azelphur> hehe
<ali1234> so check those NM settings
<ali1234> also observe routing table before and after
<Azelphur> ali1234: http://pastebin.com/qcAiajYy before and after
<ali1234> hmm well restart the vpn i guess, because it didn't take
<ali1234> oh wait yes it did
<ali1234> look at the first line
<Azelphur> :D
<Azelphur> yea, it has internet connectivity now
<Azelphur> and just like the file server, it can only talk to .1 and nothing else
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> via 172
<ali1234> try on local
<ali1234> you have a link local IP on the VPN
<ali1234> so server.local should get to your server
<ali1234> both on and off the VPN
<ali1234> if you set up avahi that is
<Azelphur> yup I can talk to the server locally
<ali1234> yeah thats not what i meant
<ali1234> can you ping server.local?
<Azelphur> no
<ali1234> install avahi-daemon on the server
<Azelphur> although I can ping my desktop.local from my laptop (which is connected to the VPN)
<ali1234> avahi is only installed on desktop by default
<Azelphur> so I'm guessing .local stuff does work
<Azelphur> ah
<ali1234> it's te best thing ever
<ali1234> you never have to deal with IPs again
<Azelphur> cool :D
<Azelphur> azelphur-server.local now responds
<Azelphur> :)
<ali1234> ok
<ali1234> now get monsterkiller to do the same NM config
<ali1234> he should be able to ping azelphur-server.local too
<Azelphur> :O
<Azelphur> ali1234: aww, looks like he's gone to sleep
<Azelphur> but I can get external to my network and test with my 3g phone
<Azelphur> ali1234: unable to ping azelphur-server.local :(
<ali1234> route -n
<Azelphur> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5812390/
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> well looks like you'll have to add manual routes
<Azelphur> I can do that, I like having azelphur-server.local, that means I can just fill in all my domain boxes with that, and be in/out of the VPN and have everything work.
<ali1234> i'm not sure why link local keeps moving around
<Azelphur> :(
<Azelphur> ali1234: I disconnected from the VPN and it still doesn't work, perhaps it's just having a funny, will reboot.
<ali1234> ah, i remember
<Azelphur> there, responds off the VPN now
<ali1234> windows uses classful networks to guess the netmask
<ali1234> but network manager does not
<ali1234> so you have to make the vpn server tell the netmask
<Azelphur> I see
<Azelphur> ali1234: any idea how to do that?
<ali1234> implementation specific
<Azelphur> http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/PPTP_Server_Configuration there's a lot of info on here, I don't have too much idea where I'm going with it
<ali1234> that page is rubbish
<Azelphur> :<
<ali1234> nobody on it has any idea what they are doing
<Azelphur> haha, yea, I did notice everyone seemed to be taking the approach of trying all possible options until something works sort of xD
<ali1234> "Select  Basic Setup -> Advanced Routing "
<ali1234> do that
<ali1234> actually that is probably no use
<Azelphur> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2013/Jun/2013-06-30-004307_1229x788_scrot.png
<ali1234> yeah, no
<ali1234> can you shell into dd-wrt?
<Azelphur> yup
<Azelphur> or at least I used to be able to, now it just says connection closed. :(
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> it says here you can use the same subnet for the vpn as your main network...
<Azelphur> oO
<Azelphur> ali1234: so that means I should be allocating 192.168.* addresses?
<penguin42> ali1234: You might want to if say you are using a laptop to connect to your vpn from random places and the random place you happen to be connecting from uses the same range
<Azelphur> penguin42: that's been the entire problem I've had today
<Azelphur> I can't connect to my VPN because the place I happened to be connecting from used the same range
<penguin42> Azelphur: It's really difficult because you still need to get to your router
<Azelphur> well, I can connect to the VPN, it's just useless :p
<penguin42> Azelphur: Put a VM on your machine, make the IP range inside the VM completely different, run the VPN software inside the machine
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> that is an awfully lame workaround xD
<penguin42> oh yeh - it'll work though :-)
<ali1234> well, i give up
<Azelphur> oh well, gonna call it a night for now, gotta be up early tomorrow, no VPN in London for me
<Azelphur> yea XD
<ali1234> you're going to have to set manual routes in network manager to make it work
<Azelphur> ali1234: can I ping you tomorrow for info on that? :)
<Azelphur> would be nice to have it working
<ali1234> ok
<Azelphur> I could also be totally lame and just go with the setup I had before
<Azelphur> but move my entire network to 172.* lol
<Azelphur> but that's bad
<Azelphur> anyway yea, nn :)
#ubuntu-uk 2013-06-30
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MartijnVdS> hi brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi MartijnVdS
<brobostigon> dr strangelove film4 11am.
<MartijnVdS> but.. F1 on BBC One at 12:10 :)
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> thats the nice thing about living where i do, you can almost hear the cars down the road.
<MartijnVdS> my windows are transparent again \o/
<MartijnVdS> IRL windows.. of my house
<knightwise> MartijnVdS: been doing some housecleaning are we ?
<SuperEngineer> vroom vroom coverage in 10 mins - receypoos in 1hr
<bigcalm> Good afternoon peeps :)
<brobostigon> afternoonings bigcalm
<penguin42> hmm, wonder when that happened - Grub wants (hd0,msdos2) rather than (hd0,2) now
<directhex> penguin42, looks like a change in 2.00 final
<directhex> penguin42, presumably to mandate the partition scheme, i.e. the msdos name = MBR partitioning
<penguin42> directhex: Interesting; I've got this 4 lines I copy from box to box to dual boot DOS on my dads machines and had to change it on the 12.04.2 install I just did for him
<shauno> does anyone know what the relevant of putting a decimal after a digit in fortran is?  eg, 3.*var, or 1.-var, etc
<penguin42> obscure question of the week award!
<shauno> I know, lmgtfy etc, but google just ignores . as punctuation
<penguin42> shauno: http://www-classes.usc.edu/engr/ce/108/text/fbk01.htm
<penguin42> shauno: Doesn't qite help though
<penguin42> precision seems to be after not before
<shauno> actually, it might .. I read that as it's casting it?  so '3' is an int but "3." is a float
<penguin42> yeh that makes sense
<penguin42> hmm interestingly the same thing works in python  2/5.  gives 0.4 as opposed to 2/5 gives 0
<penguin42> that'll save me a few 0's :-)
<penguin42> shauno: Wth are you doing with fortran?  debugging spec?
<shauno> heh.  that seems to be a theme in this code too.  the comments run for miles, but the code is terse as hell
<shauno> kinda, that's how the algorithm has been provided.  (c) 1980 :/
<shauno> "These FORTRAN IV routines have been implemented on a Honeywell-6000 series computer. This machine has a processing speed in the 1MIPS range and a 36 bit floating point word providing 8 significant figures of accuracy in single precision."
<penguin42> oh god
<shauno> the scariest version of "works for me" I've seen in a long time
<penguin42> shauno: http://www.flickr.com/photos/63085612@N00/111068688/
<shauno> what's the bets I could emulate it on a pi?
<penguin42> shauno: There is a link on the wikipedia page to an emulator
<penguin42> shauno: Although interfacing the tape drive and line printer could be challenging
<shauno> I'd be surprised if simh doesn't do it
 * penguin42 has done some 36bit machine emulation in the past - it's a real real pain
<shauno> but I should be able to pick through this.  they're not using anything completely crazy, at least  (apparently fortran has support for imaginary numbers)
<penguin42> shauno: Well so does C++ these days
<penguin42> shauno: Is that spec2k or 2k6 ?
<penguin42> couple of years since I've had to wrangle it
<shauno> no idea :)  just something I heard mentioned, and thought it sounded quite scary
<penguin42> nod
<penguin42> imaginary/complex numbers aren't that hard - it's just a pair of values in the end
<ali1234> python has support for imaginary numbers also
<ali1234> http://docs.python.org/3/library/cmath.html
<knightwise> hey everyone
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
<brobostigon> evening bigcalm
<popey> pip pip
<bigcalm> Ah, life
<bigcalm> Are we all well?
<popey> Yes!
<popey> hows you?
<bigcalm> Older
<popey> oh?
<bigcalm> It's my birthday, don'tcha know?
<zleap> happy birthday
<bigcalm> Thanking you
<popey> I did not know.
<bigcalm> And now you know
<knightwise> yooyo
<popey> get ready
<popey>                         __,,,__
<popey>                 ,-""-,-"       "-,-""-,
<popey>                /,-' , .-'-.7.-'-. , '-,\
<popey>                \(    /  _     _  \    )/
<popey>                 '-,  { (0)   (0) }  ,-'
<popey>                  /    >  .---.  <    \
<popey>                 |/ .-'   \___/   '-. \|
<popey>                 {, /  ,_       _,  \ ,}
<popey>                 \ {,    \     /    ,} /
<popey>                  ',\.    '---'    ./,'
<popey>              _.-""""""-._     _.-""""""-._
<popey>            .'            `._.`            '.
<popey>          _/_     _ _   _   ___  ___  _ _    \
<popey>       .'`   `\  | | | / \ |   \|   \| | |    \
<popey>      /        | |   || ' || '_/| '_/\   /     ;
<popey>      |        / |_|_||_|_||_|  |_|   |_|      |
<popey>      \  ;'---'  ___  _  ___  ___  _ _         ;
<popey>       '. ;     | . \| ||   \|_ _|| | |     _ ;
<popey>         `-\    |  < | || '_/ | | |   | [].' `,
<popey>            `\  |_'_/|_||_\_\ |_| |_|_|  |     \
<popey>              \       ___    _   _ _     \     |
<popey>          jgs  `\    |   \  / \ | | |   /`   _/
<popey>     ,-""-.    .'`\  | |  || . |\   / /`-,-'` .-""-,
<popey>    /      `\.'    `\|___/ |_|_| |_|/`    './`      \
<popey>   ;  .--.   \       '\           /'       /   .--.  ;
<popey>   | (    \   |,       '\       /'        |   /    ) |
<popey>    \ ;    }             ;\   /;         `   {    ; /
<popey>     `;\   \         _.-'  \ /  `-._         /   /;`
<popey>       \ \__.'   _.-'       Y       `-._    '.__//
<popey>        '.___,.-'                       `-.,___.'
<bigcalm> Oh my
<bigcalm> Thank you!
 * popey wants to play a game.
<bigcalm> How about a nice game of chess?
<popey> â»
<zleap> :)
 * bigcalm drums fingers
<bigcalm> Wish Stealth Bastard Deluxe works properly on my laptop. Instead the keys are sending the wrong commands
<knightwise> popey: is that a space invader ?
<bigcalm> This happens on other games as well, like Psyconaughts
<bigcalm> knightwise: you need to use a fixed width font with IRC
<bigcalm> Who was it that was trying to run DropBox from a headless server?
<mungbean> duuno, buts its straight forward
<bigcalm> Yep: https://www.dropbox.com/install?os=lnx
<bigcalm> Maybe it's recent, but whom ever was asking before seemed to be using a lot of scripts and magic to get it working
<shauno> first time I tried you had to install it on a desktop and then transplant the ~/.dropbox folder out once it had linked.  last time I tried, it was all handled properly
<DJones> bigcalm: It was me, I got it going fairly easily
<DJones> bigcalm: That looks like the same instructions that I followed, just from a different website when I found it
<bigcalm> DJones: oh, I thought the page you linked to was a lot more long winded
<DJones> I think there probably a lot more waffle in the instructions
<DJones> The only thing that looks different is that there isn't instructions to create a dropbox service on that page
<bigcalm> I used the dropbox.py script
<bigcalm> Just ran dropbox.py stop; dropbox.py start
<bigcalm> Logged out, logged back in and it was still running as a service
<DJones> Interesting, I might have a look at that in a bit more detail
<shauno> it's more surviving reboots that takes some massaging
<bigcalm> Well, running as a detached process
<bigcalm> Ah, fair enough
<bigcalm> I have supervisor running on my server, might use that to keep it alive
<mungbean> is it ybynty or rehdat?
<bigcalm> ?
<mungbean> sorry baby typing
<mungbean> ubuntu box or RH?
<bigcalm> Your baby has skillz
<bigcalm> Ubuntu 12.04
<mungbean> on RH there's a script and you have to add the user to .etc.sysysconfig/dropbix##
<mungbean> argh
<bigcalm> dropbix is the .za version :D
<mungbean> its what my dog dreams of
<bigcalm> Is there a best server selector for headless systems?
<diplo> Evening all
<daftykins> heya
<diplo> Paid off my credit card at last \o/
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> drinks are on you? ;)
<bigcalm> Boooooooooooooz!
<diplo> Well it could be next month! Be the first month with no extra than normal debt, only car tax to pay
<diplo> Can maybe afford a holiday for me and the boys now
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> mmm, just finished a couple of buttered hot crossed buns
<diplo> How is everyone
<diplo> yuk
<diplo> :)
<daftykins> :O they're amazing
<daftykins> not bad ty, just downloading windows 8.1 public preview for a mooch
<daftykins> and yourself?
<hamitron> when should final release be out?
<diplo> Not to bad thanks, been gardening on and off all weekend.. aching ( got issues as it is )
<diplo> I'm not a Win 8 lover, let me know your thoughts
<diplo> Guy at work just got a win8 laptop, awful :(
 * hamitron loves his win8 laptop
<daftykins> hamitron: not a clue, haven't really read much about it
<diplo> You're the first person, including a lot of non techies that I've heard who likes it
<daftykins> i'd only be happy with the start screen turned off \o/
<diplo> and everything running full screen, and looking rubbish when you put it in desktop mode
<daftykins> diplo: i prefer to think nobody likes it ;)
<diplo> That's the impression I get
<hamitron> I'm using mine more like a tablet with a keyboard/stand
<hamitron> probably only use the desktop 20% of the time
<hamitron> looking forward to the smaller tiles you can have on the start screen
<diplo> Any home AV people in here ?
<hamitron> main complaint is finger marks on the screen
<hamitron> :/
<daftykins> sounds like a lack of olephobic coating
<shauno> that's always been my irk with touchscreens.  in general, I want to maim anyone who puts fingers on my screen
<daftykins> i know a lot of the important features, own a lovely Onkyo AV receiver and enjoy good quality, that's about it?
<hamitron> shauno, yeh
<shauno> it's not so bad with phones, and to some extent tablets, that you can easily give a quick shimmy on your shirt.  bit awkward with a laptop
<diplo> I'm not overly worried about sound, not one of these people that want crystal clear
<hamitron> well, I can't see how anyone can use a tablet
<hamitron> no keyboard to type stuff!
<hamitron> :/
<zleap> hamitron, you can for short periods, no good for development or writing OU essays,  i guess
<diplo> Main thing i want is 4 hdmi in - 1 out, umm internet radio would be nice and a few other things like that
<shauno> it works for tasks that are designed for it.  mine spends most it's life as a pretty amazing xmbc remote, and as a newspaper
<hamitron> and a laptop with a touch screen "stands up" and lets you use all fingers for the touch screen ;)
<shauno> if you want to treat it as a laptop, get a laptop :)
<hamitron> shauno, I did
<hamitron> hehe
<hamitron> well, a little laptop
<hamitron> tbh, I wanted a surface pro, but the cost is just insane
<daftykins> diplo: my little onkyo AV receiver does that \o/
<diplo> What model ?
<diplo> Going to pop to Richer Sounds I reckon, get a looksy at them as well then
<daftykins> basically story goes that Best Buy UK was closing down, i found this one cheap on their site and quickly ordered after a mate linked
<daftykins> didn't even know the UK had Best Buy O_O
<daftykins> it's a TX-NR509
<diplo> ta
<daftykins> it's low end, so it doesn't do scaling
<daftykins> but it does 3D passthrough, ARC and all the good stuff
<diplo> I'm not that fussed about all that,  I'd like if it could play my mp3s over the network though :)
<daftykins> yeah i've done that with mine
<daftykins> i installed a UPnP server, simple little one atop my Windows file server and had it share to it
<diplo> So, dnla compliant..
<daftykins> but it didn't do gapless playback due to the nature of UPnP
<diplo> Does that mean it'll play music via it, what about video ?
<daftykins> heh i try to avoid voodoo technologies :>
<daftykins> nope no video support
<diplo> bah
<daftykins> i have an HTPC so i don't mind :)
<diplo> So have I, was just hoping for a little more :)
<daftykins> surely then you're just doubling up though?
<diplo> HTPC can go in my room :)
<bigcalm> The following command can be painful if sent to the wrong terminal: sudo shutdown -P now
<bigcalm> All of my terminals look the same. Just killed my laptop
<bigcalm> Maybe I should have the bash prompt highlight the machine name in a different colour for each machine
<daftykins> maybe :)
<bigcalm> At least I didn't do it on any of my servers
<daftykins> meh, power back on ;)
<diplo> http://www.richersounds.com/product/av-receivers/pioneer/vsx527/pion-vsx527-blk
<diplo> Loks promising
<diplo> looks*
<daftykins> ugh 8.1 preview doesn't support local auth
<daftykins> have to use ones' MS account
<diplo> They want to monitor you!
<diplo> :P
<daftykins> omg the whole thing is going ribbon menu style D:
<daftykins> how disgusting
 * diplo doesn't bother downloading
<mgdm> I got OUtlook 2011 for the Mac at work the other day, it has the ibbon thing, and it's completely out of place
<daftykins> this is just in explorer to start with
<daftykins> it doesn't have file, edit, view anymore =|
<mgdm> eep
<daftykins> so even when you know what you're doing you'll have to hunt for the feature =|
<daftykins> ah yeah i look after a client with outlook for mac
<daftykins> mgdm: worst part is it speaks another language than Windows Outlook, e.g. my client wanted to import LinkedIn contacts. fair enough, it spits out a .csv file. of course it only works with Windows' Outlook as-is
<mgdm> Yeah, i get that with Mac Excel outputting stupid line endings and such
<mgdm> in my line of work I end up munging data formats quite a bit - CSV, JSON and the odd bit of XML
<daftykins> ah right
<mgdm> generally end up writing code to handle it instead :-)
<daftykins> i did a test run, backed up her contacts then imported the csv as-was
<daftykins> 2,050 of wrong added XD
<daftykins> just converted them with Outlook on Windows to get the proper 'native fields' in the end :)
<directhex> moop!
<daftykins> hey directhex, how do?
<directhex> tired and hungry
<daftykins> you always did take such pleasantries literally ;)
<Laney> prettttttttty pretty good
 * mgdm does too
<directhex> also, i'm out of rum
 * mgdm is not
<daftykins> i need to get me some of the 80% Stroh that's at my friends
<mgdm> Bah, OWA is crap too
<daftykins> i miss the crazy taste :<
<daftykins> ugh now there are tickboxes on folders
<daftykins> it's officially dumbing down
 * mgdm checks tht today is the 30th
<daftykins> hrmm, a friend with a Linux server is interested in setting up a web-based system which he can manage file downloads to others via
<daftykins> so basically achieve what an FTP server offers but with a web front-end - anyone have any ideas?
<mgdm> there are some catastropically insecure ways to do that with Perl and PHP
<mgdm> I don't really know any 'good' ways to do it
<IRC-Cop> hi
<daftykins> nothing pre-made then?
<daftykins> sort of like a wordpress of file hosting XD
<IRC-Cop> hi folks
<daftykins> heya
<daftykins> heya for the second time too
<IRC-Cop> yall from the UK ?
<daftykins> not everyone
<daftykins> but some
<IRC-Cop> are you?
<daftykins> close... Channel Islands
<IRC-Cop> aha
<IRC-Cop> i got a questio
<IRC-Cop> n.
<daftykins> fire away, on one line preferably
<IRC-Cop> is it true that all english women when they hit their 20s are ugly dogs, with big fat arses from the friday/saturday night kebab munching>
<IRC-Cop> fuck off
<directhex> ohio? odd behaviour for a yank
<daftykins> probably :(
<Catalystic> im scotish
<daftykins> and can't spell your own nationality? how rare
<AlanBell> hmm, tag team trolling still
<Catalystic> ~its still in the uk right?
<Catalystic> my lawyer invited me here
<directhex> some kind of script kiddy botnet, then?
<AlanBell> couple of idiots who were kicked from one channel and are now bouncing about looking for other places to annoy me it seems
<directhex> hm, bskyb wins against microsoft over whether "skydrive" infringes on the sky tv trademarks
<daftykins> AlanBell: ooh personal service
<AlanBell> yeah, I am so lucky
<daftykins> uh-oh, does that mean Microsoft will have to rename the product in the UK?
<directhex> daftykins, either that or say "sod it" and pay a wodge of cash to rupert murdoch
<daftykins> sad times
<daftykins> i'd actually back MS over that one :(
<directhex> me too
<directhex> there are worse times where evil vs more evil has happened
<directhex> e.g. the daily mail vs tv psychic sally morgan
<daftykins> you know, sky charged local customers VAT for years without anyone noticing / being able to resolve it
<daftykins> haha that chick that demanded an apology for defamation?
<directhex> yeah
<directhex> she won, remember. 6 figure sum.
<daftykins> hey directhex you got much experience with laptop screen swaps?
<directhex> none at all
<directhex> that's outside my comfort zone
<daftykins> i've had two that haven't worked quite right on this system now, no ebay sellers are intelligent enough to tell me what's going on :(
<daftykins> aww you used to love hardware no? ;)
<directhex> last time i was inside a laptop i borked it
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> they are fickle wenches
<daftykins> oh this guy actually wants it to be locked down image hosting/selling
<daftykins> as he's a graphic designer
<daftykins> any CMS' out there with auth'd download? :>
<ali1234> i expect they all have a plugin for it
<daftykins> like a 'theme' almost?
<ali1234> well it's different in every CMS
<ali1234> in wordpress themes can do everything
<ali1234> and there's a plugin system too
#ubuntu-uk 2014-06-23
<MooDoo> hello all
<DJones> Morning
<MooDoo> morning :)
<diplo> Morning all
<SuperMatt> hmmm
<SuperMatt> here's a question: is there a way I can rootlessly install byobu?
 * DJones see's a pattern here, it may be morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> SuperMatt: Extract the interesting files from the deb, copy them to your ~/bin directory, run from there?
<SuperMatt> yeah, I was thinking that
<SuperMatt> ah bugger, this is a rhel box
<popey> morning
<popey> SuperMatt: there's an rpm iirc
<popey> SuperMatt: poke kirkland on irc, he wrote it
<SuperMatt> ta
<SuperMatt> I think I've managed to get screen to do what I need anyway
<popey> When I worked on RHEL boxes I used screen heavily. I did try to install byobu in my home dir, but failed. That was 3 years ago
<popey> might be easier now
<popey> i didnt try that hard â»
<bashrc> morning
<SuperMatt> I've managed to cobble together a good screen config from the arch wiki, so that'll fit my needs
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: screen <3
<SuperMatt> yes ineed
<SuperMatt> it helps me deal with all the extra security stuff that's been put in place
<MooDoo> I use it on my centos box.
<MooDoo> ie i'm speaking to you lot on it :d
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday and happy Let It Go Day! :-D
<MooDoo> morning....
<bashrc> let it go day?
<JamesTait> bashrc, probably has nothing to do with http://youtu.be/moSFlvxnbgk but I'm going to have it in my head all day anyway.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<awilkins> Seriously? A day for a (really good) song from a Disney film?
<foobarry> java sucks so badly
<foobarry> have 2 identical machines. one works with the jnlp file, another one doesn't
<bashrc> lots of people seem to hate java
<foobarry> "jars are not signed" :(
<awilkins> So sign them, dear Henry...
<awilkins> Or change the permissions on the other machine to permit unsigned jars
<funkyHat> Yeah, I think the falsehood here is "identical machines"
<foobarry> turns out its a icedtea bug
<foobarry> they are signed already
<foobarry> funkyHat is correct, there is a oracle java also in /opt on the other machine
<foobarry> now to find out if oracle java do packages on ubuntu :S
<bashrc> how many javas are there?
<funkyHat> 4 or 5
<funkyHat> And they are all horrible
<dwatkins> yeah, I only installed it last week
<foobarry> even worse, oracle produce buggy software that is security nightmare but no good distribution method of sending out updates
<dwatkins> oops, wrong window (!)
<dwatkins> also, good morning #ubuntu-uk
<funkyHat> I've never really been particularly interested in Oracle the DBMS, as I tend to stick to open source stuff. I did kind of assume that Oracle was probably pretty good, because they charge so much for it. But my employer is an Oracle gold partner or whatever, so we have Oracle for free at work, and I discover that it's basically a mess of crap.
<dwatkins> I've used an Oracle database, the front end was hideous. I'm not sure that's always the case, though.
<mgdm> "I'd love to have enough money to run Oracle. I wouldn't, I'd just like the money"
<funkyHat> ahaha
<dwatkins> if someone asked me to implement an Oracle database, I'd be tempted to do it in MySQL with a web-based front end and just make an option to make it look like Oracle ;)
<funkyHat> Or use Postgres with the Oracle compatibility layer installed
<dwatkins> sure, why not?
<dwatkins> wow, someone asked me for a cable that I didn't have - that's a first
<dwatkins> (iPhone 5 charging cable)
<mgdm> MySQL is made by Oracle, but it misses out quite a lot of its features...
<mgdm> Postgres might be a better option
<dwatkins> I gather MySQL was bought by Oracle, i.e. not originally made by them.
<mgdm> Yes, it was bought by Sun and then Sun were bought
<mgdm> but it is currently developed by them
<dwatkins> even the version in the repos?
<funkyHat> Yep
<mgdm> Yes
<TheOpenSourcerer> And MySQL has been forked by the original developer(s) after the Oracle ->Sun acquisition. See MariaDB ;-)
<mgdm> that's the community edition (that said several distros have moved to MariaDB instead)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oracle has been the kiss-of-death to almost all the Opensource they have bought. lol
<mgdm> I know a couple of folk who work there (though they were there pre-Sun
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<bigcalm> I think I just heard the Wilhelm Scream in the Deus Ex video on steam
<bigcalm> Maybe I'm just super sensitive to hearing it
<bigcalm> 1m09s ish
<awilkins> Heh, I hear it all the time
<awilkins> And Oracle : Kiss of Death, definitely
<awilkins> Hudson : Killed it completely by making version 2 non-compatible with existing job files
<awilkins> Upgraded, swore vociferously as half my jobs vanished, removed it, installed Jenkins instead
<awilkins> Still use Java (but OpenJDK)
<awilkins> And VirtualBox (which is quite nice, even if the kernel drivers are apparently the stuff of pure tainted evil)
<awilkins> We have an outstanding job to review all our current Oracle DBs for replacement
<mapps> what a nice day today
<MooDoo> it's chuffin it down here at the moment, or at least was
<popey> yes, lovely and sunny
<popey> got the sprinkler out
<popey> (not an euphemism)
<Laney> just had a very brief spell of thunder
<Laney> not much rain though
 * popey wonders if anyone found his balloon or if it is in the sea or a ditch somewhere... https://twitter.com/popey/status/480697494478028802
<popey> well, Sophie's balloon
<mapps> too much to do really ;/ gym...tennis...watch the world cup..go for a meal
<mapps> hate having to keep to a schedule
<MooDoo> popey:  I did see that, fingers crossed someone nice finds it and replies :D
<DJones> popey: Its here http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-27971658 :)
<popey> haha
<popey> "The only control you have is up and down"
<popey> sounds like a video game
<dwatkins> flappy balloon
<DJones> Hmmh, listening to Wimbledon tennis in the background & was wondering why they keep bleeping swear words, then remembered its the electronic line judge :)
<mgdm> he's a sweary one, that line judge
<DJones> Certainly is, its either that of Andy Murray doing all the swearing
<DJones> s/of/or/
<bigcalm> Google is scary. I no longer need to specify which language I want results for. It seems to know that I'm after PHP results
<bigcalm> Did you know that the Limo sound track is great to work by http://open.spotify.com/album/5Q6keDzZaWmnJfZKyfUn13 ?
<foobarry> doesn't block out talking from loud people though
<bigcalm> foobarry: use noise cancelling ear buds, or possibly over ear cans
<foobarry> even tried ear plugs
<foobarry> ear plugs+ headphones
<foobarry> muffled the music, still hear noisy ppl
<bigcalm> That sucks
<foobarry> ok, not track 4
<davmor2> bigcalm: it's down to usage and search terms
<bigcalm> foobarry: :D
<bigcalm> davmor2: thought it would be. Yay for tracking
<Pendulum> foobarry, I don't know if you can find them in the UK, but in the US I know people who buy shooting earmuffs just for the sound blocking. You'd probably be able to wear them over earbuds.
<bigcalm> Oh year. I have a pair of ear defenders for when I'm using the leaf vacuum
<bigcalm> Apparently 99dB isn't good for one's hearing
<foobarry> Pendulum: we have those for server room ,
<bigcalm> s/Oh year/Oh yeah/
<foobarry> shoudl try it
<bigcalm> I think my noise cancelling ear buds might be annoying my wife. I hope she doesn't think I'm ignoring her, but they really are super effective
<bigcalm> Then again, she as quiet as a mouse
<bigcalm> Anybody here used Music Magpie?
<DJones> bigcalm: I was going to use them until I found out how little they paid for cd's, ended up selling via ebay and making 10 times as much
<foobarry> not sure how anything is viable via ebay anymore given post prices
<foobarry> who can compete with amazon for books when 3.20 postage?
<JohnRobert> nobody
<foobarry> i bought bought before where the person made a loss on a book because postage was most than quoted price+postage
<foobarry> i paid Â£5 for the book
<foobarry> i wish there was a scribd for library books where you could read for 1 motnhs
<foobarry> you can't even find the books i want to read in libraries
<bigcalm> Just scanned 25 DVDs and Blu-rays. Came to Â£9.37
<foobarry> lol
<DJones> foobarry: I've started using https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.kindook.kobofreebooks and https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.kindook.freebooksbuddy on my tablet to get free ebooks from the kindle/kobo libraries
<bigcalm> Can I be bothered to put them all on ebay?
<bigcalm> TBH, the stack of films was going to go to a charity shop anyway
<foobarry> bigcalm: got a list pls/
<mapps> hm
<foobarry> or a photo of the stack
<bigcalm> foobarry: one mo
<bigcalm> http://discworld.cuth.eu/dump/2014-06-23%2014.45.29.jpg
<foobarry> feels like 1990s internet all over again
<foobarry> ah, loaded now ;D
<bigcalm> Sorry, I didn't resize the image
<foobarry> grand theft aurto is a film?
<bigcalm> Yep
<bigcalm> Not watched it
<bigcalm> Had it for years
<foobarry> nothing take my fancy there i'm fraid
<foobarry> i'm more artificial eye kind of eye
<bigcalm> Directed by Richie Cunningham
<bigcalm> Anybody else interested in any of the films in the above photo?
<mgdm> You're getting rid of trap door?!?
<MooDoo> it's coz there's something down there ;)
<mgdm> hehe
<mgdm> nail it shut and concrete over
<mgdm> job done
<awilkins> I'd stay away from that trap door
<foobarry> cos there's something down there
<dwatkins> That and Stoppit and Tidyup were fantastic shows.
<ashd> hi all. i need to drop back to php5.4 from php5.5 on a 14.04 LTS new install - due to an ioncube ecoded set of php files.  brand new server - not running anything so can remove and re-install whatever is needed.. annoyed as i did not notice the requirements and cannot find out how to drop back a version
<bigcalm> ashd: how did you install PHP 5.5?
<ashd> fresh install of Ubuntu 14.04 LTS - was the default.
<bigcalm> So Ubuntu 14.04 LTS comes with PHP 5.5 now?
<bigcalm> So it does
<bigcalm> :S
<bigcalm> You could try pinning the version at version 5.4
<ashd> bigcalm: yes, though that is something i have never done so am just reading about it.
<bigcalm> And the encoded files won't work with PHP 5.5?
<ashd> bigcalm: that is the case..
<bigcalm> 18th Apr 2014 -  Encoder 8.3.0 released.
<bigcalm> Encoder 8.3.0 is now released, including support for encoding PHP 5.5 language features.
<bigcalm> Release notes
<bigcalm> From their /news.php page
<ashd> bigcalm: yea. but try to get some commercial bunch to rush something out for one client.. i think i am going to have to work out how to drop back to php5.4 - pinningâ¦
<bigcalm> One really quick way would be to install Ubuntu 12.04.4 LTS
<bigcalm> That would give you PHP 5.3
<ashd> bigcalm: i think i am going to have to do that.. annoyed for not reading the docs as closly as i should - actually - i did not realise that 14.04 had php5.5â¦ i think i will have to drop back and then pin the php at 5.4
<ashd> will probably save time in the long run
<bigcalm> What will save time for you in the future is to document what you're doing right now :)
<bigcalm> Eugh, I just advocated documentation
 * bigcalm shudders
<ashd> bigcalm yes.. i doâ¦ but the small print was so small..
<ashd> bigcalm: but at least you did not advocate reading it...
<ashd> bigcalm: thanks for the confirmation - iâll head off back and cook another VM.
<bigcalm> Have fun :)
<ashd> bigcalm: :S
<diddledan> yawn
<wheatley_ind_> diddledan, keeping you up?
<bigcalm> Another 1h3m to the day :(
<diddledan> http://www.tvbeurope.com/bbc-4k-test-first-many/
<diddledan> \o/ for UHD
<wheatley_ind_> diddledan, do you have a 4k TV
<diddledan> nope
<wheatley_ind_> Haha!
<wheatley_ind_> Interesting they're being broadcast from the Eurovision satellite
<bigcalm> The music contest has its own satellite?
<diddledan> hah
<diddledan> no, eurovision is a conglomeration of european broadcasters
<popey> ~/71
<wheatley_ind_> That would be the best place to keep it... miles away from civilisation
<wheatley_ind_> Wonder if you can pick the transmission up from a regualar sat box
<wheatley_ind_> Assuming it'll be encrypted though
<diddledan> wheatley_ind_: no you won't be able to
<wheatley_ind_> diddledan, shame... :)
<diddledan> wheatley_ind_: not least because it's going to be HEVC compressed which no stb decodes yet
<diddledan> then it's 4k which is probably not decodable by an "HD" box either
<wheatley_ind_> Just read the HEVC compression :)
<wheatley_ind_> diddledan, Technicolor do a 4K STB
<diddledan> really?
<diddledan> considering there's no standard for broadcast 4k I wouldn't expect it to be compatible once real services arrive
<diddledan> I would expect that DVB will iterate another pair of standards in DVB-S3 and DVB-T3
<ali1234> http://www.a516digital.com/2014/06/possible-uhd-test-signals-spotted-by.html
<wheatley_ind_> ali1234, interesting!
<diddledan> googley doodle is funny today
<bigcalm> Just bought the 2 most recent LEGO games on Steam
<bigcalm> Damn you Summer Sale
<bigcalm> !
<ali1234> movie licenses ruined lego
<Azelphur> Hey folks, I'm trying to use runit to start a process inside screen, getting "Cannot open your terminal '/dev/console' - please check." any ideas how I can resolve that?
<ali1234> runit is an init daemon so it probably wants to by pid 1 and write it's log to the console
<diddledan> try daemontools for something similar to runit which works as not-pid1
<Azelphur> ali1234: runit is quite happy to run not as pid 1, which is a cool feature as it gives me a nice process manager, which is portable, and doesn't stand a chance of breaking my dedicated server in a way that I can't fix remotely :)
<ali1234> use containers
<Azelphur> explain? :P
<diddledan> I really should look into figuring out docker at some point
<mgdm> Azelphur: that's probably little to do with runit and more to do with screen
<ali1234> yes. coreOS, systemd, docker, lxc - this is the future
<Azelphur> mgdm: Indeed, I mentioned runit because running screen inside runits environment is obviously breaking something
<diddledan> the very fact that it (docker) wasn't even a thing this time last year (or maybe a very fledgling thing) kinda proves that it needs a second look considering the buzz surrounding it
<Azelphur> ali1234: I know of systemd, but not the others. I opted against systemd as it potentially breaks my system in a way that I can't fix remotely.
<ali1234> the idea of resetting to factory defaults by just doing rm -rf /etc/* is amazing
<Azelphur> that is pretty cool :P
<Azelphur> ali1234: maybe I should just give you my requirements and you can suggest whatever you think
<ali1234> this stuff isn't available yet
<Azelphur> oh, then runit is the answer, short of this screen problem.
<ali1234> what are you trying to do?
<Azelphur> ali1234: init scripts for srcds (the tf2 server)
<ali1234> why not just use juju and lxc?
<Azelphur> because I have no idea what they are
<Azelphur> ali1234: neither of them seem to apply to what I'm trying to do though
<ali1234> sure they do
<ali1234> i know for a fact there is already a charm for tf2-server
<Azelphur> juju says it's for cloud deployment? lxc is some funky stuff about containers...I want an init script
<ali1234> lxc is basically a local cloud
<ali1234> you can juju deploy on your dedicated server to containers
<ali1234> the containers are restarted on reboot by an init script
<Azelphur> ali1234: so you'd have one individual container per server? that doesn't work for me either
<ali1234> why not?
<ali1234> containers ave very light
<Azelphur> ali1234: all of our servers run on the same install of srcds with tweaks to configs and such done by launching with different arguments, this greatly speeds things up both in terms of fs caching and update times
<ali1234> yeah with magic hardlinks right?
<Azelphur> nope
<ali1234> you got rid of that system?
<Azelphur> yup, ages ago :)
<ali1234> anyway, btrfs can help you there
<ali1234> btrfs is also the future
<Azelphur> you can define the folder for the servers plugins and config files at startup
<ali1234> this stuff isn't ready yet but when it is it's exactly what you need
<Azelphur> so we literally just have all the servers running off the same install, with different plugin and config folders.
<Azelphur> yea, for now of course lxc sounds like it's out :P
<ali1234> not really
<ali1234> you can do what you want to do now, it just isn't really tested
<ali1234> or documented
<Azelphur> untested undocumented things are totally good for deployment
<Azelphur> xD
<Azelphur> also you seem to think I can reformat my server, I can't - it's remote and I have no kvm.
<ali1234> why would you reformat it?
<Azelphur> to use btrfs?
<ali1234> i guess
<Azelphur> so yea, summary is that stuff doesn't seem like it'll work for me
<ali1234> no, it's perfect for you
 * Azelphur facedesks
<ali1234> ou just have to think about it differently
<Azelphur> I have to think that it's ok to put undocumented untested solutions into deployment?
<ali1234> sure
<Azelphur> ...not going to happen
<Azelphur> xD
<ali1234> it's not like people are going to die if the tf2 server crashes
<Azelphur> no, but that doesn't mean I should deliberately try and make it shit :)
<Azelphur> something like running all the tf2 servers in the same container may be possible
<Azelphur> but somehow I doubt that solves my original init problem
<ali1234> no, you should just make a container that serves all the config directories
<Azelphur> this all seems entirely separate to my original question, xD
<Azelphur> lxc seems to be somewhat akin to a virtual machine, doesn't it need its own init system?
<ali1234> yeah, that's all done for you
<ali1234> if you use a charm
<ali1234> maybe you should just look at how the charm works?
<ali1234> and then do that
<ali1234> why do you want an initscript anyway?
<Azelphur> isn't that obvious? to keep the servers running, start them on boot, and provide easy start/stop functionality
<Azelphur> the same reasons you'd want an init script for anything, really xD
<dogmatic69> been trying to make virualbox vm auto start on boot, but no dice. Anyone done this?
<ali1234> you don't need init to keep the servers running
<dogmatic69> 14.04
<Azelphur> ali1234: and juju charms seem to use the built in init system, so that still leaves me with exactly the same issue I've always had xD
<Azelphur> ali1234: sure I could use some other mechanism, but init is the proper way to do this
<ali1234> it would be if you had access to a decent init, but on ubuntu you don't
<Azelphur> I do, runit is a perfectly decent init
<Azelphur> I'm also on debian, just fyi :P
<ali1234> what is the actual problem you are trying to solve?
<Azelphur> (21:37:12) Azelphur: Hey folks, I'm trying to use runit to start a process inside screen, getting "Cannot open your terminal '/dev/console' - please check." any ideas how I can resolve that?
<ali1234> don't use runit
<Azelphur> then what?
<ali1234> i dunno, what is the actual problem you are trying to solve?
<Azelphur> ali1234: I thought I'd already been over this, to start, stop and generally process manage srcds, along with a few other services that run on the server?
<ali1234> i would just write a process manager specifically for the srcds
<Azelphur> you would...write an entire process manager when there are plenty of perfectly good ones available?
<Azelphur> O.O
<ali1234> yes, because writing a process manager is trivial
<Azelphur> I'd much prefer to just solve my original question
<Azelphur> xD
<Azelphur> seems like we're answering everything but my actual question
<ali1234> i don't know how to solve your runit problem because i never used it and i don't know what exactly you're doing to make it break
<Azelphur> it's a screen problem, as mentioned earlier
<ali1234> that also isn't very helpful
<ali1234> show the scripts you are using
<ali1234> you probably need to use that switch that makes screen run without an initial console
<Azelphur> ali1234: fairly boring script, http://pastebin.com/3qR3XXEL
<Azelphur> ali1234: yea, that sounds like a solution
<ali1234> check the manual page section for -m
<ali1234> you probably want -D -m
<Azelphur> ali1234: -D is detach an already running screen isn't it?
<ali1234> maybe without -m
<Azelphur> oh, -D -m, that's detached mode, I see
<Azelphur> yup, fixed
<Azelphur> thanks :)
<Azelphur> amusingly that was serious case of PEBCAK, I removed -D when I created the script because I (incorrectly) assumed it would detach and leave the process manager unable to manage the process
<ali1234> you're going to hit that problem where you need to send kill to the process inside screen, not the screen itself
<Azelphur> ali1234: yup, already hit it \o/
<Azelphur> but I can probably work around that, I remember seeing an example of how this is done in systemd
<Azelphur> and that was to send the kill command to the screen on service stop
<ali1234> this still doesn't give you an easy way to deploy/destroy services
<Azelphur> ali1234: it actually does, runit services are really simple, just copy the file and change the arguments, can all be done as a normal user without root
<Azelphur> and to destroy, just rm
<Azelphur> and permissions are all based on Linux filesystem permissions, so I can set up who can manage services too.
<Azelphur> for example I could let the webserver user start, stop, or even create new services, allowing me to create a web panel if I ever get around to it.
<Azelphur> runit is pretty cool. :)
<ali1234> juju already does all that
<Azelphur> so does runit, apparently?
<Azelphur> oh, you mean the web panel bit
<ali1234> yes
<Azelphur> that's cool :)
<diddledan> ok, it's time to take the plunge and move to something other than truecrypt
<diddledan> any suggestions? (it needs to work on mac and potentially windows, too)
<daftykins> diddledan: you're not a paranoid user as well are you :<
<diddledan> :-)
<diddledan> I have some stuff that requires protection from offline attacks due to my clearance level (I have both governmental IL3 clearance as well as a specific police clearance for policey things beyond IL3)
<diddledan> mainly passwords/ssh keys but the potential is there for other stuff
<diddledan> http://www.ascentor.co.uk/2012/12/ilo-il12-il3-busting-g-cloud-accreditation-security-jargon/
<daftykins> o rly, i'll let you off then
<daftykins> don't they provide a solution though?
<diddledan> they provide solutions for uploading the data to the secured network which requires FDE and a locked-down windows install, but for the developmental work I'm allowed to work on a system of my choosing
<diddledan> just have to be strict about what I take via usb stick to the upload station
<diddledan> don't you love when the client it allowed to upload their own stuff? http://www.app.college.police.uk/ (the security discussion got me checking the public-side of the site we developed under those regs) - on the slider click the third circle to scroll to the last slide - the image is butt ugly
<diddledan> somebody didn't check the transparency
<daftykins> the wordy one? they all look pretty rough to me :D
<diddledan> the code of ethics one
<daftykins> aaah
<daftykins> i had a feeling it was randomising them ;)
<daftykins> i see Steam is disappointing once more
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aa6yAUNoYNc
<daftykins> diddledan: ooh that's why i know the name, my mate works for them
<daftykins> he works on sourcetree for Mac afaik
<daftykins> http://blog.sourcetreeapp.com/2014/05/31/say-hello-wwdc-2014/
<daftykins> lol there he is
#ubuntu-uk 2014-06-24
<ali1234> Mr Marshall told BBC Radio 4's Law in Action: "As people have moved  their shopping online and their communications online, they've also  moved their insults, their abuse and their threats online"
<ali1234> hallelujah someone gets it
<MooDoo> morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<DJones> Has anybody come across a Onedrive for Linux daemon/driver, with MS increasing the onedrive storage to 1Tb for all Office 365 users, it'd be good to have access on linux, just looking at http://xybu.me/projects/onedrive-d/ which seems hopeful
<diplo> I found something a couple of years ago, see if I can find what it was.. it was ok not great
<diplo> Not used OneDrive since though
<DJones> That looks like its the latest & most up to date method http://xmodulo.com/2014/06/sync-microsoft-onedrive-linux.html
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<diplo> Looks good, defo different than what I found DJones, can't remember the one I tried and yes it was SkyDrive when I last used it!
<diplo> Morning bigcalm
<DJones> diplo: If it works, certainly can't complain about 1Tb of storage for no extra cost
<diplo> Definitely
<DJones> I wonder how long it'll take google to match the 1Tb
<foobarry> or release a linux client googdrive
<DJones> foobarry: Yeah, good job people haven't been holding their breath for an official client
<bigcalm> Is there a workaround for Linux?
<DJones> bigcalm: For googledrive? Yeah, I tried it & seemed to work ok
<DJones> bigcalm: https://www.insynchq.com/linux Seem to remember its one you have to pay for
<DJones> Used to be one called GRIVE but that may have been abandoned
<bigcalm> Oh, no. That's not a work around I'd like :(
<bigcalm> Never mind. My needs have yet to out grow my Dropbox space
<bashrc> morning
<DJones> Same here, I think I've got about 55Gb of dropbox space and only used about 500Mb
<codecowboy> Hi all. ANyone got some experience of ZFS ? I created a pool, write some data to it, rebooted the machine and the pool is gone.
<codecowboy> * wrote
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Bannockburn Day! :-D
<MooDoo> morning
<dwatkins> allo allo
<foobarry> ubuntu one got out of the game at the right time
<foobarry> race to the bottom
<dwatkins> foobarry: which game?
<foobarry> online storage
<foobarry> 2GB is a tad different to 1tb
<dwatkins> oh yeah, I never used my Ubuntu One, so it didn't really affect me
<foobarry> had potential that was unused
<foobarry> for syncing all apps thru it etc
<dwatkins> I signed-up for Bitcasa when it was still $99 a year for infinite storage - it's now 12x that
<foobarry> can't sign in to onedrive
<foobarry> with my o365 accoutn. fail
<MooDoo> I use backblaze, but that's just offsite storage
<foobarry> anyone know how to enable java plugin in chrome?
<foobarry> "Chrome does not support Java 7 on the Mac or Linux platforms."
<bashrc> nice
<foobarry> firefox not recognising :(
<foobarry> pray that you never have to use IBM remote management
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<bigcalm> o/
<davmor2> I love absolute 80's the theme for tonights you pick we play it.  Music the England team should listen to as they flight home :D
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm
<bigcalm> Ha
<diplo> Absolute Classic Rock here davmor2 :)
<davmor2> unfortunately beck's Loser was '94
<bigcalm> Surely they should listen to uplifting music as they will be pretty down
<davmor2> bigcalm: so far it is not looking good,  Winner takes it all, Never gonna give you up, young guns, throwing it all away, here we go again.....
<davmor2> road to nowhere
<bigcalm> :(
<davmor2> bigcalm: as I said in the team call we are showing the world that we can demonstrate how to lose graciously so we are letting the other teams win ;)
<bigcalm> https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/l/t1.0-9/10489982_10152956378684745_8304569873446776038_n.jpg
<diplo> heh bigcalm :)
<foobarry> "NPAPI (Netscape Plugin Application Programming Interface) was dropped for Linux in Chrome 35 because of Aura. IcedTea and Oracle both use NPAPI, so it won't work until they are upgraded to the new system (don't expect that any time soon)"
<foobarry> https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=375909
<foobarry> wasted 2 hrs trying to get java working this morning
<foobarry> !ping
<lubotu3> pong!
<bigcalm> !ding
<lubotu3> dong
<bigcalm> !sing
<bigcalm> Booo
<foobarry> !yin
<awilkins> !bork
<awilkins> !help
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<awilkins> !commands
<lubotu3> The linux terminal or command-line interface is very powerful. Open a terminal via Applications -> Accessories -> Terminal (Gnome), K-menu -> System -> Konsole (KDE), or Menu -> Accessories -> LXTerminal (LXDE). Guide: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UsingTheTerminal
<awilkins> !stupidbot
<codecowboy> Morning all. Anyone got some experience of ZFS ? I created a pool, wrotee some data to it, rebooted the machine and the is no longer available (UNAVAIL). It is complaining that there is no replication available. I actually only want RAID0 so no mirroring or redundancy in the short term. Is there a way round this?
<foobarry> i don't but there might be a dedicated channel
<foobarry> (or solaris channel might have some experienced ppl in it)
<diplo> Quite a few people in jupiter broadcasting use it, probably more under unix though
<foobarry> is it free for linux yet?
<diplo> http://zfsonlinux.org/
<diplo> Updated jun 12th
<codecowboy> foobarry diplo thanks
<brobostigon> they have ditched daily politics on bbc2 for the tennis, :(
<simplesimon> hello
<MooDoo> hi
<funkyHat> Morning
<mapps> got to stop going out
<mapps> another 150 quid gone..smoked 20..cant remember
<mapps> feel not great
<foobarry> smoking bank notes?
<foobarry> i don't think i ever spent 150 in a night without something to show
<mapps> lol no smoking marlboro 'gold' again
<mapps> aka lights
<mapps> kills me a bit less than the reds apparently
<diplo> That's a false pretense, if you were smoking the reds before you suck harder on the lights to get the same kick apparently which clogs the filter up quicker thus getting more rubbish
<diplo> Read something about it ages ago
<mapps> i didnt smoke reds..but i know theyre stronger
 * diplo was a 60 a dayer at one point
<mapps> had em a few times
<mapps> i smoke marlboro lights / cutters choice
<mapps> im more a rollie man
<mapps> you still smoke diplo?
<diplo> Gave up for 12 years or so, until the wife left me, smoked on and off last couple of years
<diplo> not a lot but a few here and there, mainly when I'm having bad days :)
<mapps> aha
<diplo> And yeah cutters here as well
<mapps> 60 a day to nothing is good
<mapps> yea i loved cutters choice mate..used to go to the 'kwiki mart' every day and get 12.5 grams cutters 2 red rizla and some swan filter tios;p
<diplo> yeah, downside was I put on a lot of weight over those years
<diplo> Starting to lose again  now though
<mapps> AH
<mapps> For me never been an issue
<mapps> i dont drive tho7
<mapps> used to love smoking rollies
<mapps> absolutely loved it
<mapps> and when people couldnt roll..aint my problem :D
<diplo> Always been able to roll, can't stand tailor mades :)
<diplo> Lets stop talking about it, making me want one now!
<bigcalm> la la la la
<foobarry> need more haribo
<bigcalm> I just ate a "pink & white" that my wife gave me. Odd thing
<popey> Êâ¿à² 
<bigcalm> Pink 'n' Whites
<bigcalm> What can I waste my money on today?
<bigcalm> Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed
<bigcalm> Humm
<foobarry> 3rd attempt to reboot IBM server
<foobarry> keep missing the f1 screen because the boot takes 10 mins
<foobarry> and i'm multi tasking
<funkyHat> bigcalm: my usual go-to is searching for just-launched projects on kickstarter
<bigcalm> I meant in the steam sale
<funkyHat> Oh I see
<funkyHat> I haven't been paying attention to that actually
<bigcalm> I'd rather not waste money, but the sale is a goood time to pick up some bargains
<funkyHat> That's *definitely* what I meant too â¢)
<mapps> do i go to the pub or not
<mapps> hmm
<funkyHat> Yes!
<bigcalm> If it's an option, why wait?
 * bigcalm is feeling odd about his dry month
<bigcalm> Haven't actually thought about it that much. But going to the LUG tomorrow night is going to be strange without a pint of beer
<mapps> anyine ordered glass?
<mapps> google glass is now in the UK
<foobarry> Â£1500?
<diplo> Â£1000
<foobarry> have to buy nappies first
<foobarry> then clothes for kids
<foobarry> then food
<diplo> I read somewhere they are made for about Â£/$250
<diplo> foobarry, same here :(  no nappies thankfully now :)
<foobarry> aren't beats headphones made for $6?
<diplo> Don't know, I've not seen that
<diplo> http://financialjuneteenth.com/cheap-beats-by-dre-headphones-cost-just-14-to-make/
<bigcalm> I look like a tit in my headphones, but I don't care. Sound quality and comfort are important
<bigcalm> Sadly they didn't include the comfort bit, which is why I have to use a folded face cloth to pad out the head strap
<mgdm> so you look even more of a numpty?
<mgdm> Jabber \o/
<bigcalm> mgdm: indeed so
<MattJ> Jabber \o/
<mgdm> It still works \o/
<MattJ> Of course :)
<bigcalm> Tit: https://www.dropbox.com/s/1c34njtqyp52izc/2014-06-24%2016.12.58.jpg
<mgdm> hehe
<bigcalm> Hairy tit at that
<mapps> i was just glad igot home with my phone wallet and keys
<mapps> gotta stop drinking so much
 * mapps been saying this for the last 10 years
<mapps> i cant remember leaving the casino
<mapps> or how i got home
<mapps> i assume i walked..but who knows :D
<bigcalm> :(
<mapps> thats normal fpr me
<bigcalm> :((
<mapps> how old are you though?
<bigcalm> 35
<mapps> ah not so much older
<mapps> im 29
<mapps> but yea 2x a week its guaranteedi wont remember leaving somewhere
<mapps> i lost 2 iphone 5sin 2 weeks:(
<bigcalm> Actually 6 days away from being 35. I wonder if I can ignore the passing of the date
<mapps> hah
<diplo> I did this year bigcalm apart from 3-4 people
<mapps> i just need to start behavong properly
<mapps> without my dad id have been in a box or under a bridge
<bigcalm> diplo: my problem is that my sister's b'day is 3 days before mine. So it's difficult to get away with it
<mapps> i seem to burn through money
<diplo> I tell my family that I don't want anything to happen, it's taken 3years ish but they#re getting the idea
<diplo> I've not drank like that for probably 20 years mapps :)
<ali1234> bug 1309711
<lubotu3> bug 1309711 in angband (Ubuntu) "14.04 upgrade breaks this program" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1309711
<popey> odd, works here
<popey> well, launches at least
<ali1234> yeah it woks for me too
<ali1234> someone just posted the bug number in a channel with no ubotu
<ali1234> gtk version is very badly broken, but that's been removed upstream for that reason
<mapps> :(
<mapps> cant help my drinking
<MartijnVdS> mapps: time to call a professional?
<mapps> nah
<mapps> dont want people to know
<MartijnVdS> we're people?
<MartijnVdS> also, professionals (doctors) aren't allowed to tell anyone
<mapps> i mean dont want work to know;D
<MartijnVdS> who's gonna tell them>?
 * mapps slaps diplo around a bit with a large trout
<mapps> someone that sees
<mapps> i figure il  just drop dead someday
<mapps> :)
<mapps> thats life though
<mapps> eh
<foobarry> dreadful match
<nigelb> cricket or football?
<foobarry> england world cup
<nigelb> foobarry: ah. england just lost a test match too.
<nigelb> In the second last ball of the match
<foobarry> i saw a sticker on a lamp post advertising illegal hacking (i.e cracking) services
<foobarry> had a website, i don't remember the site name, might check again tomorrow
<diddledan> foobarry: if you need the service I can provide at a reasonable rate* note: actual cracking services may be a lie
<nigelb> By actual cracking, you mean, opening that password protected word document, right?
<diddledan> :-)
<directhex> foobarry, dreadful? they got a point! we're better than australia!
<moreati> possibly dumb question, I've created a virtual machine in Gnome Boxes and installed 14.04 from an ISO. Now the VM is installed, how do I eject the virtual CD?
<ali1234> what is gnome boxes?
<moreati> https://wiki.gnome.org/action/show/Apps/Boxes?action=show&redirect=Boxes
<moreati> The Gnome equivalent of VirtualBox
<ali1234> why not just use virtualbox?
<moreati> I was under the impression VirtualBox is frowned upon for having an intrusive 3rd party kernel module
<ali1234> well use virt-manager then
<ali1234> virtualbox is better though
<ali1234> the kernel module is open source so who cares?
<ali1234> apparently boxes uses libvirt, so you should be able to just install virt-manager and eject that cd
<moreati> kernel devs (I thought). Trying, virt-manager
<moreati> virt-manager 1, gnome boxes 0. thanks ali1234
#ubuntu-uk 2014-06-25
<whowhat> @search linux format
<cowabunga> hi i need help. Can anybody create a patched sisimedia driver for ubuntu? Linux has opensource sis driver, but i borrowed from mageia...
<mapps> :(
<mapps> done it again
<ujjain> why do uk checking accounts give more interest than uk saving accounts?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> hey boys
<SuperMatt> hey girls
<SuperMatt> superstar djs
<SuperMatt> here we go
<bashrc> morning
<dwatkins> moin moin
<dwatkins> has anyone ever encountered an issue with e-mail addresses being case-sensitive?
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Colour TV Day! :-D
 * bigcalm refuses to watch the TV out of spite
<diplo> dwatkins, remember issues many many moons ago but not anything in the last 5-6 years or more
<awilkins> dwatkins, Emails being case-sensitive?? No. Is it a case of email storage being transferred from Windows to Linux though?
<awilkins> Similar parallel when you transfer tables between OSs on MySQL
<awilkins> Windows file system names aren't case-sensitive. Linux ones are. Tables are named for their file name. Hilarity ensues.
<TwistedLucidity> dwatkins: Email addresses are case sensitive. How ever MS Exchange treats them as insensitive.
<TwistedLucidity> Because MS doesn't do standards.
<TwistedLucidity> (I will admit, insensitive local-part is much more user friendly; but it's not what the RFC says) http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2821.html
<foobarry> my esxi install recipe has reached 16 pages of A4 :S
<BigRedS> TwistedLucidity: that's not quite what the RFC says
<BigRedS> it says the local-part may be case-sensitive depending on the MTA, and so any intermediaries must treat it as if it were
<TwistedLucidity> "The local-part of a mailbox MUST BE treated as case sensitive."
<BigRedS> yeah, hang on, I misread your comment...
<BigRedS> Though IME Exchange doesn't break this, but my experience with Exchange isn't very modern
<TwistedLucidity> I mean, from a user's perspective joeschmoe and JoeSchmoe are the same. And that's logical to a human.
<BigRedS> yeah, and I don't recall exchange breaking that assumption
<TwistedLucidity> I'm fairly sure Exchange treats them as insensitive - perfectly happy to be wrong in that
<bigcalm> I tried to add case difference to my own email address, bloody thunderbird corrected it because it was a known address :)
<ujjain> pssst, going to dentist is free with NHS?
<TwistedLucidity> ujjain: Depends what you need doing. Prices are subsidised I think.
<TwistedLucidity> No NHS dentists near me, so I have to go private
<DJones> ujjain: http://www.nhs.uk/chq/pages/1781.aspx?CategoryID=74&SubCategoryID=74
<ujjain> thanks DJones
<ujjain> and TwistedLucidity
<foobarry> does anyone know what a "back leader" is at school sports day
<foobarry> i'm worried thats a fancy name for being in last place
<foobarry> ah, i think its the position you start in the team relay
<foobarry> probably no individual races at that age
<popey> no individual races?
<popey> really?
<foobarry> he's 4
<foobarry> nursery schoo;
<foobarry> so its a sort of practice for being a big boy sports day
<bigcalm> I remember running indervidual races in primary school from 5 onwards. Won most of the running :D
<bigcalm> I had far too much energy as a child
<foobarry> nerd sweets
<daftykins> i remember winning a race but not being allowed to take part on sports day "because"
<daftykins> ;_;
<daftykins> not bitter at all.
<awilkins> Is a back leader the person who goes at the back to make sure that no children go astray?
<foobarry> nelson mandela a black leader?
<foobarry> remember the races where you run and collect bean bags in your team of 8 and sit down when u finish
<bigcalm> Ug
<foobarry> og
<bigcalm> Ook
<foobarry> ig
<davmor2> ni
<foobarry> been reading hitch hikers guide again
<foobarry> reminds me of that
<daftykins> @np
<daftykins> oops wrong chan
<daftykins> ;D
<andatche> anyone know what the magic incantation is to make the grub menu show up in trusty? Holding shift no longer seems to work
<daftykins> that is the key
<daftykins> i believe the other day someone mentioned right shift worked for them instead 0o
<daftykins> escape can also interrupt
<daftykins> perhaps you're just too slow at it? :)
<daftykins> also, if it's a desktop USB keyboard support could be complicating matters
<directhex> uefi fast boot is awesome, except when it's hell
<andatche> it's a remote keyboard via kvm console
<andatche> hiding it by default is moronic tbh
<daftykins> only in your opinion
<daftykins> why waste bootup time by having one if it's the only OS?
<popey> yeah, left shift, and be quick
<bigcalm> Almost end of the day
<bigcalm> What do I want to play before going to the LUG tonight?
<popey> ETS2!
<bigcalm> ETS2?
<popey> *parp* *parp* Rubber ducky!
<popey> yes, ETS2!
 * bigcalm googles
<bigcalm> Oh, god
<bigcalm> Moving on
<bigcalm> Might play a little LEGO locally rather than streaming
<bigcalm> Streaming was fun. But a little intermittent over 5g Hz wifi
<bigcalm> And it appeared to put the content in a box rather than being full screen
<bigcalm> I did like how I didn't have to do anything other than start Steam on 2 machines
<bigcalm> Why can't more things Just Work (tm)?
<andatche> daftykins: in case, you know, someone needs to get into single user mode or something ;)
<andatche> just displaying the menu for a second would be fine
<daftykins> i keep hearing this talk of single user mode but from what i understand that's an old runlevel type term that doesn't exist
<daftykins> do you not just mean root recovery console?
<andatche> daftykins: I mean init=/bin/bash
<daftykins> oh does that actually work on ubuntu 0o
<popey> yeah
<andatche> it will work with any distribution
<popey> recovery console is effectively the same thing, but more friendly and less brutal
<daftykins> ^_^
<andatche> yeah
<daftykins> would the above skip the mounting as read only though?
<andatche> no, rootfs is mounted read only, you need to remount if you want to write to it
<daftykins> mmm same as recovery then
<popey> or rather, recovery is the same as that â»
<popey> chronologically speaking
<daftykins> yesh
<daftykins> split those hairs sir! split them!
<popey> but yeah, pedanticism aside, its handy
<popey> not that anyone can do that on my laptop now I have fully encrypted it :D
<MartijnVdS> popey: "Please enter key to decrypt /bin/bash" ?
<andatche> both are useless if you can't get to the grub menu ;)
<popey> you fail at shift
<andatche> popey: the exact same setup (remote console to a qemu VM) works fine with a precise box, holding shift displays the menu
<daftykins> it presses the shift else it gets the boot again
<popey> hehe
<foobarry> my wifi is so laggy on this laptop :(
<foobarry> are powertop tunables remembered after reboot?
<foobarry> meh. shoved them into options file
<diddledan> evenink
<brobostigon> anyone tried to use a palm os 4 device on a debian or similer machine?
<nobody_> anybodyhome?
<Azelphur> nope
<nobody_> good
<nobody_> i have a slight problem
<Azelphur> !ask | nobody_
<lubotu3> nobody_: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<nobody_> theres 3 volume ok
<nobody_> ok
<nobody_> i have 3 volume control buttons, one of the is dead. sadly, its volume up button. therefore, i do not have any sound. I have tried xdotool to raise the volume but there is still no result
<nobody_> is it possible to simulate keypress event
<nobody_> i have acpi event name
<Matml__> Hi all.
<daftykins> Matml__: hi
<Matml__> hi daftykins, how goes?
<daftykins> not bad ty, yourself?
#ubuntu-uk 2014-06-26
<Matml__> About to give up and use my laptop as a paperweight, but otherwise ok!
<diddledan> Matml__: you could try doorstop, too
<Matml__> It's good to have options :)
<diddledan> </unhelpful>
<diddledan> who wants a googley arm-clock?
<diddledan> https://play.google.com/store/devices/details?id=samsung_gear_live_black
<daftykins> Matml__: hehe, what're you wrestling with?
<Matml__> daftykins: Possibly python?
<Matml__> Have been having issues for a few days, all revolving around the message "Failed to import the site module".
<daftykins> ah, i'm no dev or coder sadly so i'm no use there
<Matml__> That's the annoying thing, I'm not doing any dev or coding!
<Matml__> it's just an error that's seemed to appeared...
<Matml__> I only think it's python from googling
<daftykins> oh right 0o
<mapps> weds is the besttv night7
<mapps> :D
<mapps> suits and graceland
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<directhex> huh, one of the PC cases I was looking at has no optical drive bays. i assumed it was a door, not a blank front
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> yo
<Mlar> Good morning.
<popey> so, everyone buying smart watches now? https://play.google.com/store/devices/details?id=samsung_gear_live_black
<bigcalm> Cooiee
<foobarry> i prefer to charge my watch once every 5 years
<foobarry> i change my strap more often..
<popey> heh
<foobarry> i can see myself still wearing a casio f91w when i'm retired
<Mlar> I've just switched back to a non-smart phone. It's amzing. It hardly ever needs charging.
 * popey still wears an f-91w
<popey> ]#
<foobarry> Mlar: how's the internet access on it?
 * awilkins got an F-91W for his daughter to wear on our trip to Florida. She was pulled aside for a bag search. She was 6 at the time.
<popey> also a W86
<Mlar> foobarry: equally as good as the internet access on my watch!
<Mlar> And possibly a little better than my laptop.
<foobarry> awilkins: lol && what the heck
<awilkins> foobarry, F-91W is terrorist retrochic
<foobarry> for sure, but also v popular
<awilkins> They got a reputation as being used for detonators
<foobarry> a implies b but b does not imply a
<awilkins> Got daughter one because it was dirt cheap, I remember having one as a kid, waterproof for the parks and swimming pools
<foobarry> Socrates is a man. All men are mortal. Therefore, all men are Socrates.
<awilkins> And of course, a nice little joke for the TSA.
<foobarry> can't ask where the guys in this office go for haircut as hair seems to be lacking
<awilkins> Heh, I've just had a clipper and cut my own for the last 20 years
<awilkins> The wear on the clipper blade decreases each year :-)
<DJones> awilkins: I don't know about the wear decreasing each year, but its harder to see my hair as it gets greyer year on year
<foobarry> what'st he longest that clippers go to?
<foobarry> 1,2,3,4..etc
<bigcalm> I think I've seen 6 different heads in my barbers
<foobarry> i think longer than 6 tends to clog
<popey> yeah, i bought some decent clippers
<foobarry> need to change my hairdresser but i'm scared of getting an army cut
<DJones> I don't bother with putting a head my clippers, I just go with the "0" cut, hides the grey heair and the bald spots
<directhex> i need to get my hair cut more often
<directhex> i expect to keep my hair. my grandad on my dad's side died in his 80s with a full head of hair, and on my mum's side my grandad still has his
<MartijnVdS> I had a bald spot.. but then I cut off all the hair
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Chocolate Pudding Day! :-D
<bigcalm> Moose to meet you
<diplo> directhex, my grandparents were the same
<diplo> I need to have mine cut every two weeks otherwise it's just to thick
<bigcalm> I'll be having my sherra cut on Saturday. Once every 4 weeks on the dot
 * bigcalm googles for "sherra" as a term for hair and doesn't find it at all :(
<bigcalm> Must have been unique to my secondary school
<DJones> bigcalm: So the same haircut/style since your schooldays, Mines gone from a normal short back & sides to a waist length ponytail and now to a near shaved head
<DJones> I'd like the ponytail back, but I get annoyed when its growing, as soon as it gets longer than 1/4 inch I end up getting it cut, plus grey pony tails don't look good on anybody except for Francis Rossi
<foobarry> get a strap-on
<DJones> Ooh er....
<bigcalm> Oh my
<foobarry> pony tail with a headband
<foobarry> your hair covers the headband
<foobarry> job done
<foobarry> no idea what you guys were thinking ...
<foobarry> ;)
<DJones> Heh
<bigcalm> Anybody use a call recording app with Android?
<foobarry> no.
<foobarry> but it is legal if one person knows its being records
<bigcalm> Legality isn't an issue
<bigcalm> I record all of my SIP calls and skype calls. Never informed the other person.
<bigcalm> My use is personal as I have a horrible short term memory
<popey> yeah, i record all my sip calls, which is why my phone is full â»
<directhex> i hate the sound of my own voice so i'd never want to record my calls
<foobarry> i was videoed giving a talk last week, haven't watched it yet
<bigcalm> I've got used to the sound of my own voice
<bigcalm> Desktop background of the moment: http://wallbase.cc/wallpaper/439667
<popey> http://imgur.com/hSlscKS is my desktop background today
<bigcalm> Cute!
<bigcalm> You have Variety set to change once per day?
<popey> hourly
<bigcalm> That sounds more sensible :)
<bigcalm> Mine appears to be every 10 mins
<foobarry> whats a desktop?
<foobarry> mine is always covered in windows
<awilkins> I quite like the idea of (to steal a name) an Active Desktop
<awilkins> Not just one that shows content but one that has areas you can draw to be intrays and outboxes
<foobarry> i like the idea of conky screens and customised background for the conky info to live inside
<diplo> awilkins, I'm sure a couple of years ago someone was doing something just like that
<diplo> watched a few vids of it in action
<czajkowski> Aloha
<mapp> halo
<mapp> suits is so good
<awilkins> mapp, Donna can personally assist me ANY TIME SHE LIKES
<mapp> :D
<mapp> i still think rachel's the hottest
<awilkins> I have a slight redhead problem. And I'm old enough to be Rachel's dad.
<mapp> heh
<dwatkins> mapp: well she was a model before she started acting
<opalepatrick> I want to show a client my screen as a quick demo. They are tech non-savvy windows user. What is the 'easiest' way for them as well?
<opalepatrick> An d for me the one with the least grief :-)
<popey> opalepatrick: google hangout
<opalepatrick> ahaa
<bigcalm> Oh pants. Managed to turn on the screen reader by mistake. How the heck do I turn it off?
<opalepatrick> I will have a mooch now popey - thanks a lot]
<popey> np
<bigcalm> Love this: http://askubuntu.com/questions/278693/how-do-i-stop-orca-screen-reader
<dvrr> hi... everyone
<awilkins> !ask
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<awilkins> ;-)
<bigcalm> !solitaire
<bigcalm> Aww
<foobarry> !freecell
<Mlar__> Hi all.
<popey> hello
<Mlar__> How goes?
<MooDoo> evening all :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: you wanna be hippy
<davmor2> MooDoo: how are you chap?
<celesteh> hello, I used to have an application called something like ubuntu software center that let me search for apps and install them. I can seem to find it on trusty. Does it have a new name or is it gone?
#ubuntu-uk 2014-06-27
<MooDoo> morning all
<knightwise> morning !
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Industrial Workers Of The World Day! :-D
 * TwistedLucidity goes on strike in celebration
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<nigelb> morning
<foobarry> copy.com auto upload seems poor :(
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: is it bad when you resort to using claws-mail cause it's more reliable than evo or thunderbird :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: ouch sir
<davmor2> MooDoo: the sad thing is I like it it just works
<MooDoo> davmor2: then what you worried about, if it works it works :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: the fact i had to resort to using it in the first place :)  It was claws or kmail claws won
<awilkins> TBH I mostly use GMail's web interface
<awilkins> And Outlook. Because Outlook is the only no-faffing client that works on our work email infrastructure
<davmor2> awilkins: I don't use gmail.  I have a home server for email and then work too
<davmor2> and roundcube in trusty seems to be playing up for me so I need to dig into that at some point
<awilkins> davmor2, For work we have Exchange behind some kind of XMLRPC / HTTP firewall gateway
<awilkins> The webclient sucks (on purpose) on non-IE browsers
<awilkins> The only other clients are Outlook and ActiveSync
<awilkins> For ActiveSync the admin requires the ability to nuke my phone from orbit, so that's not happening
<awilkins> IMAP doesn't work outside the office network
<NET||abuse> hi folks, anyone tried new skype on 14.04 yet?
<NET||abuse> was wondering should i install it or stick to the canonical packaged one?
<MooDoo> NET||abuse: just try it :D
<NET||abuse> my main requirement is i run 2 skype accounts, personal and work
<NET||abuse> will the --dbpath option still work?
<awilkins> NET||abuse, I'm running 4.3, `skype --help` lists the --dbpath option
<awilkins> Overall my experience is that 4.3 has better audio quality (but not sure if that's mostly linked to improvements in their phone / VoIP gateway network)
<NET||abuse> yeh, well, as long as i can have the 2 acccounts and it still works, i'm good
<awilkins> Have some really  terrible qualuty  doing Skype -> Cisco WebEx calls
<awilkins> Am told that I sound like I'm underwater, can only infer that the compression of Skype -> Phone gateway -> Cisco VoIP  interacts badly
<awilkins> If only it was just SIP... don't think we'll get SIP gateway though, Cisco charge per minute of phone which is how they make their cash...
<diddledan> is it lunch time yet?
<foobarry> how do pci slots show up in lspci?
<foobarry> same card, same model of server, different lspci id 00:08.. and 00:20...
<foobarry> i assume this means the card is in different slot on the other server?
<diddledan> foobarry: I think you're right - if it were a different motherboard then it would not be so cut-n-dried as that
<foobarry> of all the parts of the curry dixons pc world carphone warhouse to retain, isn't carphone a bit of a misnomer?
<foobarry> "Primary school in Cornwall closed as police hunt Elvis impersonator with 'access to guns'" popey ?
<popey> hah
<dwatkins> foobarry: perhaps they should have renamed it "cassette floppy disk ghetto blaster" ;)
<bigcalm> He
<bigcalm> h
<awilkins> "VCR Blender World"
<davmor2> popey: You never said you had access to guns
<popey> pew pew pew
<davmor2> popey: wow you hiding out in a church now :D
<dogmatic69_> anyone know if its possible to make the first line stick (eg csv headers) in less / more
<dogmatic69_> or any other tool...
<dwatkins> you could split the screen with tmux or screen, I suppose, dogmatic69_
<dogmatic69_> dwatkins:  not when I am on lame windows :/
<dwatkins> dogmatic69_: well, if you will use Windows ;)
<dogmatic69_> under duress.
<dwatkins> I treat it like a toy, it has a sandbox and everything.
<davmor2> dogmatic69_: just use head instead of less
<dogmatic69_> davmor2:  nope, need the first line + 100000 lines after it
<dogmatic69_> like 'freeze panes' in excel
<davmor2> dogmatic69_: drop the csv into something that does that like libreoffice, ms office etc.  I don't think you'll get away with it other wise :)
<awilkins> dogmatic69_,  : http://filip.rembialkowski.net/vim-as-a-pager-for-psql/ ?
<dogmatic69_> davmor2:  seems it can be done with emacs
<awilkins> Or vim
<dogmatic69_> ah, yet that is what I was looking at earlier
<dogmatic69_> thought it mught be something quick...
<davmor2> dogmatic69_: so a proper editor then :)
 * dogmatic69_ does not have enough fingers to use vim
<davmor2> dogmatic69_: no idea what you mean it's only one finger you need most of the time :P
<awilkins> Think you need two fingers to use vim
<awilkins> But Emacs requires you to have the Twisted Monkey Hand of Chaotic Doom
<awilkins> Or at least, that's what you end up with after the tendonitis strikes :P
<davmor2> awilkins: use stickykeys then you are fine with one :)  For basic editing one finger it enough in vim :)
<awilkins> Great, my window manager has decided to trap my mouse on the right screen
<davmor2> it's just remembering to hit the esc key before :wq that is the trouble :)
<awilkins> And to not respond to any clicks
<awilkins> I suspect Steam
<awilkins> Great, keyboard only window navigation 4tl
<MooDoo> sorry davmor2 was away from keyboard
<bigcalm> Anybody good with sed?
<bigcalm> I've done this sed -i 's/\t/","/g'
<bigcalm> <filename>
<Laney> simon
<bigcalm> That'll replace the tabs in a file with ",". But How do I wrap each line with double quotes?
<bigcalm> Basically converting a tab separated values file into a csv
<awilkins> The whole line, or just the field?
<bigcalm> Whole line
<awilkins> Ah
<awilkins> erm/// another two regexes
<bigcalm> Because I'm already doing the inner bits
<awilkins>   s/^/"/   and s/$/"/
<bigcalm> I thought it was but guess I got it wrong, ta :)
<bigcalm> Yep, that worked
<bigcalm> Ta
<Laney> s/.*/"&"/
<bigcalm> Humm, okay
<awilkins> Ah yes, regexes are greedy
<mapp> hi all
<foobarry> looking for a savings account paying more than 1% :(
<ali1234> yeah... gonna have to be an isa
<ali1234> dont get a bond - they're probably going to put the interest rates up soon
<foobarry> my savings account gonna go to 0.2% on july 1st
<foobarry> why do building societies still do postal accounts?
<foobarry> and why are they the best deal? insance
<foobarry> ISA won't suit. this is the funds for my extension
<foobarry> may be 6 months until i need it
<ali1234> get a no-notice cash isa then
<foobarry> britannia 1.65% looks OK, but they are dodgy innit
<foobarry> how much is isa limit?
<ali1234> i think it's Â£10,000 now
<foobarry> this is for around 35k
<ali1234> well you're screwed then
<foobarry> inheritance from my dad :S
<foobarry> not sure of risk in investing in britannia/coop
<ali1234> deposits are insured
<ali1234> upt o a certain amount
<foobarry> "ou can access your account whenever you like by telephone or in branch. And as long as you limit your withdrawals to no more than four a year, your interest rate wonât be affected"
<ali1234> just don't put more than that in any single bank and you should be okay
<foobarry> ugh. internet banking
<foobarry> yeah its 95k
<foobarry> 85k
<foobarry> banks are colluding to offer terrible interest
<foobarry> nationwide do internet acct for 1.4%
<foobarry> ah, 1.7% if u been with them for 15 yrs
<DJones> Just noticed this on twitter re ISA's https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/482613620300587008/photo/1
<DJones> Yay..New doctor who date confirmed, 23rd August http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p021r78j
<foobarry> http://hexus.net/mobile/news/android/71585-amazon-giving-away-100-100-free-apps-sunday/
<gebbione> hi guys
<gebbione> i have an hd with two partitions
<gebbione> one is ext2
<gebbione> and the other unknow
<gebbione> but i know for sure there is data there
<gebbione> it is an hardisk i use in a cctv system
<gebbione> but i cannot see the files
<gebbione> anyone can help or suggest what to do
#ubuntu-uk 2014-06-28
<mapp> rainng again ugh
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<directhex> BT DNS is down
<brobostigon> yes, i cant connect to my vps using ipv4, but using ipv6 works fine.
<foobarry> DJones: dailymail predicts misery! it cannot be!
<popey> pip pip
<evaty> hi
<evaty> someone can help me with github
<foobarry> what is it evaty
<foobarry> your question?
<foobarry> need to find someone who wants our altix 350 SMP
<foobarry> got a rack full of 'em
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
 * penguin42 presses the button that's supposed to get me more bandwidth from Virigin for free
 * MartijnVdS watches penguin42 on 14k4
 * penguin42 whistles fast
<gebbione> any reasons why ubuntu makes a huge effort to be friendly in loading and using cd/dvds? same media on other os just load like a charm
<MartijnVdS> gebbione: I don't understand your question
<nigelb> you mean doesn't?
<gebbione> MartijnVdS, nigelb  not a question and on my ubuntu at least i had to create /media/cdrom0 where by default it tries to mount cds and dvds. It is just frustrating the fact that it is not clever enough to create the folder and just fails/errors
<penguin42> gebbione: That shouldn't happen
<penguin42> gebbione: It should automount stuff under /media/username I think
<gebbione> not doing this for me, i have everything mounted under /media
<gebbione> not sure if it is my version 12.04 TLS
<gebbione> LTS
<penguin42> oh hmm, not tried 12.04 for a while - but it should automount
<penguin42> do you have multiple CDROM drives by any chance?
<penguin42> I just remember seeing a bug a while ago with multiple drives
#ubuntu-uk 2014-06-29
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<ali1234> is the ubuntu one client for android on launchpad somewhere?
<ali1234> the part that does photo sync?
<popey> ali1234: https://launchpad.net/ubuntuone-android-files is that what you're after?
<ali1234> i think so, cheers
<michiel81> I've got a question regarding Ubuntu 14.04 and Touch Screens, i managed to get te touch controller somewhat working but i cannot calibrate it at all.
<Azelphur> hmm, I have an Asus router powering a small cafes wireless internet, it seems to be capping out at 100 DHCP clients
<Azelphur> at least, I'm making that assumption based on the fact that it works for some people but not others
<popey> sounds plausible
<penguin42> Azelphur: Are you sure that's not just the default range set up on it?
<penguin42> Azelphur: e.g. just set to offer the range .100-.200 ?
<Azelphur> penguin42: that's what I initially thought, but the DHCP range is actually 2-200
<Azelphur> it even says in the panel "The RT-N16 supports up to 253 IP addresses for your local network"
<penguin42> what are the clients that aren't working seeing?
<Azelphur> penguin42: I don't have a whole lot of info beyond "doesn't work", I'm remote admin on the router, if I can't fix it remotely I'll physically go there tomorrow and hopefully fix it
<penguin42> nod
<Azelphur> bit embarrassing, told him to get a decent router as his plusnet one was slow, and the signal couldn't even cover the entire cafe :p
 * SuperEngineer wonders if bigcalm is available to answer if he has Dear Esther running on 14.04 or 12.04
<Azelphur> and now I've upped the signal, just half the planet can't connect \o/
<SuperEngineer> ...though anyone running Dear Esther on 14.04 would be handy ;)
<Azelphur> penguin42: it raises the interesting point however, the DHCP table has gone up to 100 (probably +) in a couple days, and the stock firmware officially only supports 256 allocations
<Azelphur> might be sensible to openwrt flash it
<Azelphur> and get a larger DHCP pool
<penguin42> Azelphur: I wonder if there is an expiry setting, I mean how quickly do you eat through 100 in a cafe, you've probably got more that haven't expired yet
<Azelphur> penguin42: I had a similar line of thought, it's currently 86400 (one day)
<Azelphur> I could set it to maybe 4 hours or something
 * penguin42 wonders if this is why places give you 30mins of wifi...
<Azelphur> penguin42: may well be
<Azelphur> penguin42: I don't know what the computers behaviour is either when the DHCP lease expires, do they just seamlessly request a new address?
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: having spent the past 2 weeks in a premier inn - I can assure you it's so they can charge you if want more
<penguin42> Azelphur: I think there are multiple stages, so I think the host will try and renew it, and then it'll be transparent; if it actually changes IP that might be more painful
<Azelphur> if it doesn't cause any disruption I'd set it to like an hour or something and be ok with re-requests
<Azelphur> and that should keep the table well below 100
<penguin42> nod
<Azelphur> I suppose since it isn't working anyway, I can try it
<Azelphur> worst case scenario is that it doesn't work and I fix it tomorrow
<penguin42> I guess they don't have the RAM to be able to give a big range like the whole of 10.x.x.x
<Azelphur> penguin42: I dunno, the RT-N16 is pretty decent, it has 128MB
<Azelphur> the hardware is fairly beefy, it has a 480Mhz CPU that is underclocked from the factory 533
<Azelphur> I'm sure it has the guts for more than 100 clients
<penguin42> RAM would probably be more important
<Azelphur> the other annoying thing about this device is there seems to be no way to manually expire a DHCP lease
<moreati> Azelphur: can a DHCP server force a client to refresh/release it's lease?
<Azelphur> no, but most routers can clear the table so that when a client requests a new address, it gets allocated a new one
<penguin42> Azelphur: Does it have any logs you can see what's going on?
<penguin42> moreati: I doubt it - you can't be sure the DHCP client can hear you
<Azelphur> penguin42: looks like there's a lot of firmware updates, I'm gonna go ahead and patch it too
<penguin42> hehe good luck....
<Azelphur> I'm gonna physically be there tomorrow anyway, so worst case is it breaks and I go down tomorrow to sort it ;)
<Azelphur> it's well within warranty too, so if a stock firmware update bricks it can just return it.
<penguin421> hmm
<penguin42> what happened there
<ali1234> why would i want to use pata_marvell instead of ahci?
#ubuntu-uk 2015-06-22
<knightwise> good morning peeps
<diddledan> allo
<knightwise> heya diddledan
<knightwise> how are you today
<diddledan> awake :-p
<diddledan> been watching sense8 the past few hours
<knightwise> Lol :) I have it on the 'list' here
<knightwise> we just finished the first season of The following
 * knightwise shower - shave - excercise. brb
<knightwise> beack
<diddledan> quack
<knightwise> monday morning typos
<knightwise> still getting used to the dell's keyboard.
<diddledan> lol
<knightwise> pretty impressed by it. owned a macbook air for a while and this is actually a better device
<diddledan> it's always great to buy something expensive and be really happy that you did
<knightwise> well, its not THAT expensive when you look at what you get
<diddledan> positive reinforcement
<knightwise> great screen, thin, light ... and ubuntu runs flawless
<knightwise> that is all i wanted
<diddledan> problem is it's addictive like crack
<knightwise> a 13 inch screen in an 11 inch form factor.
<knightwise> true diddledan ...;
<knightwise> although i've been tapering down my gadget buying spree
<knightwise> (see the item i did on "having is not as pleasing as wanting") on the one of the last podcast episodes
<diddledan> yeah I think I did
<knightwise> in this case I didn"t really NEED the XPS , but I always wanted a good ubuntu-based machine
<knightwise> and now i have something that is small, light and runs well.
<diddledan> \o/
<knightwise> although I must say the surface pro3 i have is also one kickass machine when it comes to taking it to meetings and stuff.
<knightwise> (traded it with some guy against my old mac mini)
<diddledan> yeah my surface pro 3 is my daily driver
<diddledan> I bought the docking station for it
<knightwise> that is a GREAT device. probably the one and only device that makes the tablet-laptop factor work.
<knightwise> MS did a bang up job there
<knightwise> the one thing that is better on the xps (speaking hardware) is that its even lighter.
<diddledan> wow
<knightwise> but the Surface pro 3 is  my goto device when I need to go on meetings with clients and take notes and stuff
<knightwise> the only thing I still need to get working on my XPS is onenote.
<knightwise> Wine won't run it.
<knightwise> So i CAN fall back to the web based version but ..
<knightwise> I take a lot of written notes in onentoe
<knightwise> onenote
<diddledan> the pend on the surface is nice
<diddledan> pen*
<knightwise> yep , that is a killer feature right there
<diddledan> I heard ms bought the manufacturer behind the pen
<knightwise> not a bad call. i'm very curious what they are going to do on the surface 3
<knightwise> surface 4
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi knightwise
<knightwise> how goes it today brobostigon
<brobostigon> half asleep, and you?
<brobostigon> abit of hip pain.
<knightwise> been up for a while now.
<knightwise> auw
<knightwise> thats not good
<brobostigon> definatly, it happens sometimes, when i have a day like yesterday, when i am on my feet abit more, it just needs rest.
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning
<diddledan> m00
<davmor2_> morning all
<knightwise> morning davmor2
<davmor2> For some unknown reason the song in my head today is Everybody by backstreet boys
<foobarry> still had 500MB swap used upon my return on monday but tab pauser has sped up my pc
<foobarry> wonder if there is a nice app to plot which processes are using RAM on a time series chart
<knightwise> hey MooDoo , foobarry
<knightwise> how are you guys today
<foobarry> o/
<MooDoo> yeah ok thanks
<knightwise> hmm.. teh version of geary in the repositories is an older one if i'm not mistaken.
<knightwise> it does not even support signatures$
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday and happy Onion Rings Day! ð
<foobarry> eww not for breakfast
<davmor2> JamesTait: I'm beginning to think there are no Happy Meat Eater Days now
<foobarry> is there no bacon day?
<davmor2> JamesTait: When are the Happy Eat Prime Steak days?
<foobarry>  10:04:06 up 1338 days, 19:56,  1 user,  load average: 0.00, 0.02, 0.00
<foobarry> arggh i missed leet day
<JamesTait> davmor2, https://www.daysoftheyear.com/days/eat-what-you-want-day/
<foobarry> need to wait another 4 years
<JamesTait> foobarry, https://www.daysoftheyear.com/days/bacon-day/
<foobarry> every saturday is bacon day
<davmor2> JamesTait: no no no no no no no no That isn't eat prime steak day :P
<davmor2> JamesTait: and if the 25/12 isn't over eat day and only eat turkey day I would want to know why ;)
<diddledan> onion rings are amazeballs
<diddledan> or rather, amazerings
<davmor2> diddledan: scotch eggs are amazeballs you fool ;)
<diddledan> they go well with that prime steak
<diddledan> I'm not wewll enamored with scottie eggs
<directhex> march 14th is steak day, no?
<davmor2> scotch eggs go well with prime steak??? diddledan weirdo
<diddledan> nono, the onion rings do
<Myrtti> popey: Nyancat v. 0.01
<diddledan> yey?
<foobarry> just noticed my swappiness was the default of 60
<popey> Myrtti: haha :)
<Myrtti> few more iterations and it's there :-D
<popey> one thing off that cats bucket list
<Myrtti> oooh This years Who Do You Think You Are is going to be great
<Myrtti> http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/latestnews/2015/who-do-you-think-you-are
<awilkins> popey, Is there a LibreOffice 5.0 PPA?
<popey> pass
<awilkins> They have a .deb for download though
<popey> https://launchpad.net/~libreoffice/+archive/ubuntu/libreoffice-prereleases
<awilkins> Can't find a summary of why 5.0 is awesome compared to 4.4 either :-)
<popey> thats made by the libreoffice maintainer in ubuntu
<popey> so i trust that ppa
<awilkins> Aha, found the release notes
<diplo> Seems Collabara have been doing a lot of work on it
<directhex> "collabora productivity" is a separate division, which formed to maintain/sell LO. many of the LO core devs are there, e.g. mmeeks
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<knightwise>  hey big
<knightwise> how are you dude
<bigcalm> Fairly awake and stuffing my face with a subway
<popey> ooh, not had subway for years
<knightwise> Ugn .. salty stuff
<MooDoo> oooo love foot long steak and cheese
<awilkins> I love a cheese steak but I prefer to make my own
<popey> used to get a subway when I worked in uxbridge
<popey> we don't have them here
<zmoylan-pi> i'm sure some other chain has filled that dietary niche
<foobarry> subway always gives me post subway regret
<bigcalm> I enjoyed that. Not sure I should have had a full foot long though
 * bigcalm be a greedy bugger
<awilkins> Footlong BMT with the chipotle mayo and plenty of olives :nomface:
<bigcalm> Chicken pizzola on honey oat bread, toasted and grated cheese. Lettuce, tomato, olives, onions and jalapeÃ±o peppers. Bit of mayo. White coffee. 3 white chocolate chip cookies.
<bigcalm> Thanks very much
<Azelphur> Where do people usually mount raid arrays (On a server)?
<bigcalm> I have mine in /media
<Azelphur> yea, I guess that's as good as anything
<popey> i have mine under /srv and /backups
<Azelphur> why /srv?
<popey> why not
<Azelphur> well usually you name folders something with reason, dunno what srv is
<popey> its common to use /srv/ on servers
<Azelphur> I see
<popey> e.g. /srv/domain.com/www for the website and /srv/domain.com/logs for that site logs
<Azelphur> for this drive, it's gonna contain backups, media, ownCloud, etc
<popey> alan@bishop:~$ ls -l /srv | wc -l
<popey> 52
<Azelphur> I see :)
<Azelphur> maybe I'll drop it in as /storage/
<diplo> I do the same asa popey
<diplo> On nearly all my personal setups
<Azelphur> What's the best way to give KVM'd machines access to a folder on the host?
<diplo> Samba ?
<diplo> http://www.linux-kvm.org/page/9p_virtio
<Azelphur> Interesting
<Azelphur> could use either
<diplo> http://dustymabe.com/2012/09/11/share-a-folder-between-kvm-host-and-guest/
<diplo> Or that maybe ?
<diplo> ah the same thing
<NET||abu-> hi folks,, i setup an aws instance and stuck ubuntu 14.04 on it, loaded up ubuntu-desktop, added x2go server and rebootd everything, i run the client and it seems to get a connection and open a gui window, but it's stuck as a plain black window
<Azelphur> I wonder which is faster, 9p or CIFS
<Azelphur> I might just go CIFS so everything is managed by CIFS so the permissions are all easy
<NET||abu-> Azelphur:  scp -c arcfour   :P
<NET||abu-> Anyone know why i dont get anything visually on the screen?
<ujjain> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/11689799/Revealed-How-to-lose-weight-drink-plenty-of-red-wine.html
<ujjain> new dirt
<ujjain> diet
<zmoylan-pi> probably works as red wine crowd don't get chips or other takeout on way home from wine and cheese event as much... :-)
<NET||abu-> hmm, ok, updated x2go client on my local machine, added the ppa,, now the x2go black window pops up and then closes a moment later, then x2go client asks for login (password field empty) but i've specified the key.
<Azelphur> ... wat http://pastebin.com/tbHzGMVB
<Azelphur> I think I officially broke touch guys, add it to the list.
<NET||abu-> i'm loosing here,, has anyone used x2go on unity on 14.04?
<NET||abuse> i'm loosing here,, has anyone used x2go on unity on 14.04? I've install it on an aws instance, setup ubuntu-desktop, installed the x2go ppa the x2goserver, rebooted the instance, got the client on my local laptop. it connects ok over ssh, the dialog says it gets the x session. but then i just get a blank window for a moment then the x session terminates?
<foobarry> check apparmor
<foobarry> and x session logfile
<foobarry> also which DE are you connecting to
<foobarry> NET||abuse: don't use gnoem or unity to log into
<NET||abuse> dont use unity?
<NET||abuse> foobarry: DE ?
<foobarry> which desktop environment are you trying to run on the server
<NET||abuse> ahh, yes, was initially using unity, just installed the default ubuntu-desktop
<NET||abuse> what do you suggst?
<foobarry> try lxde or xfce
<foobarry> for the x2go session
<NET||abuse> i'll have to install those on the remote box though?
<foobarry> yes, not lxde-desktop though
<NET||abuse> oh,, what then?
<foobarry> just lxde and lxde-session and other bits and bobs maybe, i can't remember
<foobarry> ii  lxde                                        0.5.0-4ubuntu3                                      Meta-package for the Lightweight X11 Desktop Environment
<foobarry> lxde-common, lxde-core, lxde-icon-theme
<foobarry> thats the 4 i have
<NET||abuse> install lxde installs 80 packages :)
<foobarry> size?
<NET||abuse> 14.4 MB of archives.
<foobarry> tiny
<NET||abuse> including those 3 packages you listed above
<popey> ubuntu-mate is nice via x2go I hear :)
<NET||abuse> so is unity just busted for this use case?
<NET||abuse> is it hte 3d business?
<popey> dunno, never tried unity in x2go
<popey> possibly
<NET||abuse> darnit
<NET||abuse> was trying to give this over to a mac user as a "look how awesome remote linux is working"
<NET||abuse> hoped to replicate his setup in virtualbox he's using on aws
<foobarry> http://lists.x2go.org/pipermail/x2go-user/2014-May/002260.html
<foobarry> "it would be easiest if
<foobarry> you would use a desktop environment other than GNOME3 or UNITY. KDE,
<foobarry> XFCE and LXDE are included in Ubuntu 14.04 and work fine with X2Go."
<foobarry> NET||abuse: i use it on elementary, and is pretty sweet
<NET||abuse> fair nuff
<Azelphur> Can anyone help me with SMB and permissions? I've got some really really weird things going on :/
<Azelphur> I've created a samba user called storage, which is tied to the Unix username storage, I've mounted it on another machine, but I can't write to that directory
<Azelphur> even though, as the storage user on the samba server - I can write to that directory just fine
<davmor2> Azelphur: how are you logging into the server from the client
<Azelphur> //192.168.122.1/TV /storage/TV cifs  username=storage,password=redacted,iocharset=utf8,sec=ntlm  0  0
<Azelphur> davmor2: ^
<davmor2> Azelphur: I can't help you out but it might help others be able to help you with the extra info.  trying to think of anything else that might be useful
<Azelphur> nothing else I can think of that would be useful
<Azelphur> I think it's the whole user mapping issue on both sides, and I'm really not sure how that's supposed to work.
<davmor2> Azelphur: daft question, that the fstab rules right you did actually mount it right?
<Azelphur> davmor2: it is mounted, if that's what you're asking
<Azelphur> It's really kinda frustrating, I just want everything in this folder to be owned by the user storage, very hard to get that it seems
<diddledan> Azelphur: writable=true?
<diddledan> (guess)
<Azelphur> yup
<davmor2> Azelphur: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MountWindowsSharesPermanently might want to use this as a double check and then look at the server side against https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/serverguide/samba-fileserver.html sorry I can't be more help :)
<diplo> Azelphur: you need to create a samba user as well yeah ? so smbpasswd -a storage
<diplo> passwd doesn't match with samba users
<Azelphur> I already have one created, I used system-config-samba for it
<diplo> Never used it :)
<Azelphur> it's so strange, it creates the file even though it says permission denied, I can rm the file, but I can't nano the file
<Azelphur> :/
<davmor2> Azelphur: that sounds like user permissions issue on the server or with samba
<Azelphur> davmor2: indeed, I figured that much out
<Azelphur> I'm surprised nobody has ran into setting up something like this before
<davmor2> popey: https://plus.google.com/u/0/115731829869104895486/posts/YhNMTXLLhHf in my feed this is the post next to your remove the cat before flying :)
<foobarry> that cat could fly in my 1/32 tiger moth
<foobarry> http://i.imgur.com/hfe5z4C.jpg
<foobarry> (not complete yet)
<davmor2> foobarry: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_8mdH20qTQ popey s message
#ubuntu-uk 2015-06-23
<KnightWork> good morning peeps
<MooDoo> morning all
<KnightWork> Morning Moodoo
<KnightWork> how are you
<MooDoo> I'm ok what about you
<KnightWork> Doin ok :) been taking the Dell XPS13 to work with me today. Lovely machine !
<bashrc> morning
<KnightWork> hey bashrc
<davmor2> Morning all
<KnightWork> hey davmor2 , how are you
<davmor2> KnightWork: good thanks you?
<KnightWork> Doin ok :) Tinkering with the XPS13 here :)
<KnightWork> popey: i'm going to do an episode on the XPS13 (first impressions and such) if you need anything for your podcast let me know (i noticed you talked about it last week)
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Let It Go Day! ð
 * davmor2 drops the heavy weight on JamesTait 's foot after letting it go :D
 * KnightWork sings "let it go" from Frozen , dressed in a light blue full-body swimsuit with flippers and feathers
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> Very fetching.
 * KnightWork holds brobostigon over a cliff and "lets it go"
<zmoylan-pi> morning mammals
<JamesTait> brobostigon, o/
 * KnightWork does the same for zmoylan-pi 
<zmoylan-pi> i don't sing disney songs
<brobostigon> morning JamesTait
 * KnightWork thinks about having "bowel movements" on "let it go" day and if that is a good idea
 * brobostigon is ouchie now, :(
<Myrtti> I wish I knew why my firefox keeps logging me out of Mozilla Sync
<davmor2> Myrtti: it's trying to tell you to move to chrome
<Myrtti> I've used Firefox for a few years after a long stint of using Chrome, and I still can't remember why I made the original switch. Possibly had something to do with HTTPS Everywhere being available as an extension on Android too
<Myrtti> "Loaded to vehicle for delivery" but why hasn't the van moved, why????!!?!?!?!?
<zmoylan-pi> coffee and a kitkat first :-P
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: man if you are still on kitkat you really need a new phone, buy an ubuntu one :D
<zmoylan-pi> i think my last android phone was gingerbread :-)
<zmoylan-pi> my first was donut
<zmoylan-pi> both sitting on a shelf beside me
<zmoylan-pi> replaced by featurephone nokias
<daftykins> favouring chrome over firefox? crazy talk
<zmoylan-pi> lynx forever \o/
<awilkins> I switched back to Firefox relatively recently
<awilkins> When I'm doing CSS I really dig the whole 3D rendering thing, actually
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: pff you and your fancy lynx w3m for the win
<zmoylan-pi> wget? :-D
<Myrtti> http://www.bbc.co.uk/cbeebies/grownups/clangers-knitting-pattern
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> zomg do it
<ujjain> is 50grams of sugar in a drink much?
<daftykins> http://bit.ly/1N4Cf0j
<daftykins> hrmm Kodi exploit
<TwistedLucidity> Nice. Not.
<awilkins> 50 grams?!?
<awilkins> 50 grams is the dose of glucose they use to bring you out of a diabetic hypoglycaemic coma
<awilkins> Or about 12 teaspoons of sugar
<awilkins> Yes, it's a lot of sugar
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: Depends on how big the bottle is.....
<TwistedLucidity> A 2l bottle of pop isn't usually considered a single serving
<bigcalm> That would make for a hearty G&T
<awilkins> I use the Fever Tree (light) now
<awilkins> It uses fructose which is sweeter than sucrose so less required to make it equivalently sweet
<awilkins> Can of coke is 8 teaspoons
<awilkins> Also, all the other brands of tonic water now have some kind of artificial sweetner in them
<awilkins> Some supermarkets had a "premium" tonic line for a while that just used sucrose (Asda!)
<awilkins> But they've all abandoned it. Even Schweppes is full of saccharin
<awilkins> All leave a horrible gakky aftertaste in the mouth
<awilkins> If I'm drinking something designed to have a delicate and subtle flavour like gin, I don't want to taste gak.
<ujjain> awilkins, I have a innocent super smoothie
<ujjain> ah, contains naturally occursing sugars from fruit
<ujjain> mabye that's different
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: Fevertree FTW!
<awilkins> ujjain, It's still sugar, but at least the pulp helps you absorb it a *little* less quickly
<ujjain> argh, and I thought that little can of 223 calories would help me lose weight
<TwistedLucidity> ujjain: Sugar is sugar. Even fructose isn't /that/ much better than glucose
<ujjain> it was innocent and healthy on the outside
<ujjain> 355ml bottle
<awilkins> Heh, they like their image
<TwistedLucidity> ujjain: Water with a shot of lemon juice
<awilkins> Tea with no milk
<awilkins> Tea is supposed to be healthier than water as long as you take it with no sugar
<awilkins> It has water in it. Plus antioxidants.
<ujjain> I am trying water+ephedrine, seems to help.
<zmoylan-pi> there are lots of different kinds of tea.
<awilkins> Ephedrine? You have hay fever?
<ujjain> nops
<awilkins> Or are you a Mormon?
<ujjain> moron or mormon lol
<TwistedLucidity> Tea with full-fat moo-juice, please
<awilkins> Mormons aren't allowed caffeine
<ujjain> ah right
<awilkins> So they cheat with ephedrine tea
<ujjain> ah lol
<awilkins> Religion : absolute rules were made to be wiggled around
<TwistedLucidity> Yeah, cuz god will forgive a cheat :-S
<ujjain> like jews with their cannot push button systems,
<TwistedLucidity> Losing weight is fairly simple. Eat less, do more.
<TwistedLucidity> Easy...I never said it was easy. Only simple.
<popey> ujjain: what? push buttons?
 * TwistedLucidity could stand to lose (or redistribute) around 4kg
<awilkins> popey, Jews are not allowed to work on the sabbath
<ujjain> "Why Is Pressing a Button Considered Work on Shabbat "
<ujjain> Shabbat elevator
<popey> oh, i see
<TwistedLucidity> Which is...moronic. Sorry, but it is.
<popey> all mentals, all of them
<ujjain> instead of pushing the button, they turn or pull it lol
<TwistedLucidity> popey: I'll have you know I work with a Jew...actually...you're probably right. :-)
<awilkins> Things like that give lie to the notions that i) Being religious gives you a moral compass ii) Being an atheist means you don't have one
<awilkins> You'll find a way around the rules if you want to
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: I'll have you know that as a devout atheist I only eat babies who asked for it!
<awilkins> And you'll stick to your principles if they matter
<awilkins> Being told that the rules are the most important thing is probably counterproductive
<TwistedLucidity> I am forming a religion on how I think my dog views the world. It has three pillars: "Can I play with it?", "Can I eat it?" and "Boring"
<ujjain> Yeah, it's a shame. But what you gonna do about it. Much of my family really seems obsessed with going to Mecca many times. I meet Brazilian girls, they do nothing else than praising god.
<ujjain> lol
<TwistedLucidity> I'd like to go to Mecca...if it didn't mean entering Saudi Arabia.
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: people look at you strange when you ask for a full fat Coke/Pepsi I've no idea why they have a diet version and have no questions on that version :)
<awilkins> You want to meet the kind of Brazilian girl who's more into Carnival really...
<ujjain> ah yeah, although most of them probably wouldn't be the brightest
<ujjain> I drink a lot of diet coke.
<ujjain> to avoid getting calories, full coke seems to have so many.
<popey> pepsi max > diet coke
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: I don't drink Coke due to their business practices. And if I want a 'ginger' it's more likely to be that - ginger beer.
<ujjain> I read the bad stories about diet coke, but still seems better than 120 calories per can
<TwistedLucidity> And there's a question for the UK - why in the name of the wee man can't I get a decent root beer in this country?
<directhex> i'm not going to waste full-sugar soda calories on mass market crud like coke or pepsi
<directhex> TwistedLucidity: because root beer is culturally an american thing
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: you can,  Fentimans Ginger Beer is awesome
<TwistedLucidity> directhex: We have dandelion and burdock, but it's usually too sweet
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: Still verging on too sweet
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: Also Fentimans Dandilion and burdock
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: Too sweet
<popey> i wonder if geoff (who left himself logged in at heathrow airport once) still works for fentemens
<TwistedLucidity> I fell in love with root beer in the USA
<popey> i sent him an email from himself... Subj: things to do today.  1) Change password.
<directhex> i just want good cola
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: yeah but they use corn syrup in everything rather than sugar
<directhex> apparently good cola is not a thing the market wants
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: Yeah, that's a problem
<directhex> all good colas have eventually been removed from sale due to nobody buying it
<TwistedLucidity> directhex: Fenteman' Curiosity Cola is OK
<directhex> because people won't pay extra for good cola
<directhex> TwistedLucidity: too carbonated, and too acidic (phosphoric acid too, which is a cheap choice of ingredient)
<directhex> their cherry is a bit better
<ujjain> geoff is a regular irc guy ?
<popey> no
<popey> some dude who left himself logged in
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: oddly Americans hate their Coke but love the UK Coke, they mostly drink Diet because it tastes better
<popey> well, technically he didn't but I guessed his password was "geoff"
<directhex> davmor2: well, that's more of an international production issue. coke made in the usa uses corn for sugar, which tastes more gloopy & syrupy than the beet sugar we use in europe
<davmor2> popey: ala https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6C_HjWr3Nk
<popey> nope, not clicking
<directhex> i always feel like hfcs coke is sticking to the inside of my mouth
<davmor2> popey: it's not music
<popey> eddie izzard?
<awilkins> HFCS is horrible
<davmor2> popey: you know me so well :)
<awilkins> One of the examples of bacteria enzymes making something worse than the original product...
<davmor2> popey: geoff geoftygeoff
<popey> :)
<daftykins> you'll still need a tray
<Azelphur> Hey folks, thinking of doing a NAS / Streaming / Transcoding build, http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/MpNFxr what do we think of these parts?
<intrbiz> bigcalm: ping
<daftykins> such a sunny dat here, check this out - https://www.dropbox.com/s/cqjlijvo5cytiwx/IMG_20150623_154630.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> *day too
<daftykins> Azelphur: eww transcoding
<daftykins> :D
<bigcalm> intrbiz: pong
<diddledan> allo
<ali1234> tl;dr approximately how much will it cost me to use a AWS instance with 32GB of ram for 1 day?
<diddledan> 1 day is prolly quite cheap
<awilkins> Can't you get an account for free?
<awilkins> And a year's free trial?
<ali1234> yeah but not high memory instances
<ali1234> although maybe you can use the free credits however you want, i don;t know
<diddledan> you'd be looking at an m4.2xlarge instance which is 0.504$/hr or $12.10 for exactly 24 hours
<awilkins> http://aws.amazon.com/ec2/pricing/
<awilkins> ^^ what he said
<ali1234> cheers diddledan
<awilkins> 0.05c more in Ireland!!
<ali1234> i guess i'll just rewrite this program to not use silly amounts of ram
<diddledan> lol
<awilkins> What's the progra?
<awilkins> What's it written in?
<ali1234> metapixel
<ali1234> C
<awilkins> Hrrmph
<awilkins> Well, can't help with that then :-)
<diddledan> for a 30 day month that comes to $362.88
<awilkins> If you had say, lots of stuff in a TreeMap in a Java program I can cut that down a lot
<knightwise> oooKey ...;
<knightwise> My Dell XPS 13 just outperformed my Macbook pro.
<knightwise> i'm impressed
<diddledan> awilkins: if you were to have the instance always online then reserving the machine will save around 30-40%
<knightwise>  
<diddledan> erm, ali1234
<ali1234> metapixel makes photomosaics
<davmor2> knightwise: \o/
<ali1234> i have ~32000 16x16 images, to be turned into a (1920*4)x(1080*4) image
<ali1234> in order to do this it needs 24GB of ram, which it mallocs in one huge block
<ali1234> plus all the other ram it uses
<diddledan> ali1234: paying completely upfront for a 1year term will cost $2541 but that saves 42% over the on-demand cost I cited above - so that equates to an hourly charge of $0.2901 (but you pay it regardless of whether the machine is turned-on or not)
<ali1234> diddledan: i just need to do this one thing :)
<diddledan> ali1234: gotcha
<ali1234> for those prices i'd just get a new computer with 32GB
<awilkins> ali1234, Would it work with swap?
<diddledan> on-demand is awesome for "do[ing] one thing"
<ali1234> awilkins: probably but it would take ages
<diddledan> swap is almost never the solution
<diddledan> it slows things up far too much to be useful IMO
<ali1234> this thing already takes like 4 hours to run on a smaller set that does fit in 16GB
<ali1234> alternatively, anyone know a more efficient photomosaic tool?
<diddledan> interesting confusion over windows 10 over the weekend
<ali1234> uff
<ali1234> so, C question... how do i make the compiler pack the struct optimally rather than aligning everything to 32bit?
<diddledan> seems that if you're using beta versions after release of rtm (subsequent betas, not the pre-rtm betas) then you can use them for free (if you're a windows-insider). however, if you want gold versions then you either need to buy a license or have the win10 as an upgrade to a validly licensed version of win7 or win8.1. The confusion seems to have stemmed from these two concepts in addition to win10 pre-rtms that were
<diddledan>  upgraded from a validly licensed win7 or win8.1 will stay activated but those that weren't upgraded from win7 or win8.1 won't remain activated
<diddledan> ali1234: I didn't know it did that
<diddledan> ali1234: but I rarely touch C
<ali1234> yep... so the problem is i need to malloc 1 billion of some struct
<diddledan> ouch
<diddledan> so even if you're using booleans they'll be 32bits?
<diddledan> that's wasteful
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11763720/ <- the struct
<ali1234> now x and y can never be more than 240
<ali1234> so i made it unsigned char, but it uses the exact same amount of memory
<diddledan> try short int?
<diddledan> afaik char is just a synonym of int
<ali1234> nope
<directhex> u8
<directhex> unsigned char is 1 byte, 0-255
<diddledan> aha
<diddledan> that'll do it
<directhex> int is 2 or 4 depending on arch
<ali1234> nope
<ali1234> directhex: my problem is alignment in a struct
<directhex> oh
<directhex> yuck
<ali1234> see paste, i need that struct to occupy less than 16 bytes
<ali1234> or, well, 16 bytes would be okay too probably
<diddledan> kasperski got hacked - apparantly to determine whether they were known about - thereby getting caught and now known about - seems a bit of a stupid idea to hack a security company
<ali1234> i can make x and y uchar, but it doesn't make the struct any smaller
<awilkins> Because of packing
<awilkins> Put x and y in a single 2 byte integer
<awilkins> Hmm
<awilkins> So metapixel_t is a pointer
<ali1234> actually... make clean seems to have fixed it
<awilkins> Pah
<awilkins> The Microsoft Solution - starting again!!!
<awilkins> :P
<ali1234> threw some #pragma pack() in there too
<ali1234> looks like i'm writing my own thing from scratch then
<popey> ali1234: you can get a digital ocean box with 64GB RAM for ~1$ per hour
<popey> 640GB SSD, 9TB transfer :)
<popey> has 20CPUs too
<ali1234> so twice the price of amazon... but probably a lot less hassle. thanks
<ali1234> i'm gonna write my own mosaic tool anyway... i'll make it keep everything on disk
<popey> oh, they have a 32GB one for half that
<popey> 48c/h
<ali1234> cool, that's competitive then
<popey> careful of dem patents :)
<ali1234> patents?
<popey> yeah, photomosaic process is patented
<popey> the guy who did it is very litigious (sp?)
<ali1234> references? if it's patented then i can just copy his algo :)
<popey> heh
<popey> maybe http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?CC=EP&NR=0852363&KC=&FT=E&locale=en_EP
<popey> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photographic_mosaic#Trademark_and_intellectual_property_of_the_concept
<ali1234> wow, that first one is totally bogus
<ali1234> that's like the most obvious possible way to do it
<diddledan> 1998 - there really isn't any prior art?!
<diddledan> seriously. the american patent system is whacked
<diddledan> especially when people patent something and then release it open source and then moan when people use that source
<diddledan> the song "forever autumn" from jess wayne's war of the worlds is awesome
<diddledan> jeff*
<diddledan> to be fair the whole musical version is pretty decent
<daftykins> dan of the diddle!
 * diddledan diddles daftykins'dan
<daftykins> diddledan: did you catch my lovely summers day snap? https://www.dropbox.com/s/cqjlijvo5cytiwx/IMG_20150623_154630.jpg?dl=0
<diddledan> ooh, purdy
<popey> Myrtti: saw this and thought of you https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/fbz/knityak-custom-mathematical-knit-scarves
<Myrtti> popey: the instructions were on ravelry just few days ago... mm
<popey> :)
<Myrtti> I got the knitting machine working
<popey> \o/
#ubuntu-uk 2015-06-24
<diddledan_> linux 4.1: â¢EXT4 gains file-system level encryption (thanks to Google)
<daftykins> D:
<zmoylan-pi> so as long as you trust google we're good?
<diddledan_> lol
<intrbiz> what advantages does that have over the current layered approach
<diddledan_> intrbiz: it actually understands files
<intrbiz> so
<diddledan_> intrbiz: it's like "what advantage does bundling multiple-device support into the fs layer have over the current layered approach"
<intrbiz> well the advantage of the layered aproach, is one set of code can encrypt any filesystem, thanks to the layering
<intrbiz> and by encrypting the entire block device, limits any potential metadata leaks
<diddledan_> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem-level_encryption
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/rqy61q5fgwg4w14/IMG_20150624_013941.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> just a wee download for this new Samsung Note 4
<diddledan_> 40 minutes!
<daftykins> it's really crawling compared with my tubes capability, yeah
<daftykins> totally not been that mind you
<diddledan_> that's silly - maybe it's doing it over cellular? :-p
<daftykins> the seconds are going - 2 per second
<daftykins> nah no SIM
<daftykins> granite house :>
<daftykins> you won't get above EDGE in here
<diddledan_> EDGE is painful
<diddledan_> in walesland I had like a 5000ms ping
<diddledan_> (yes, 5 seconds)
<daftykins> lol
<diddledan_> meant doing anything was impossible
<daftykins> rage inducing
<zmoylan-pi> âª if i had the only 2400baud modem in the world... :-) â«
<diddledan_> rough calculations suggest a throughput of 13Kbit/s
<diddledan_> basing on the 5ish second latency and a 64Kbit connection speed
<diddledan_> (formula gained from: http://bradhedlund.com/2008/12/19/how-to-calculate-tcp-throughput-for-long-distance-links/)
<diddledan_> maybe I did that wrong tho
<diddledan_> ok, redoing the calculation basing on better numbers (I think) suggests 6Kbit
<diddledan_> 6Kbit/s
<diddledan_> again, 64Kbit/s connection speed
<diddledan_> I still think I've done it wrong
<intrbiz> article doesn't window scaling
<intrbiz> which will ramp up the window size asumming low packet loss
<intrbiz> doesn't mention*
<diddledan_> ok, yeah, around 6Kbit/s throughput (without scaling)
<diddledan_> or that might be an order of magnitude out
<diddledan_> someone check my calculation: 65536 = bits/s connection speed; 1Gbit divided by connspeed = 1*1024*1024/65536 = 16; tcp window size divided by 16 = 524288/16 = 32768; finally 32768 / latency in seconds = 32768/5 = 6553.6bits/s or 6KBit/s or 0.8Kbyte/s
<diddledan_> I really can't figure out if my logic is correct tho - it's late and my brian isn't working
<diddledan_> there's illumination on the horizon
<zmoylan-pi> cue birds tweeting annoyingly loud outside
<KnightWork> morning
<diddledan__> good moaning
<knightwise> hey diddledan__
<diddledan__> allo knightwise
<knightwise> just finished up the podcast rec on my review of the xps13
<bashrc> morning
<bashrc> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irNBGuklQiU
<bashrc> (another ubuntuphone)
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> This morning's track in my head that I just can't shake, singing in the rain, I ask you :D
<knightwise> popey: you awake yet ?
<popey> ya
<knightwise> did you catch the link i sent ya ?
<popey> yeah, not looked yet
<knightwise> ok. np
<MooDoo> morning
<davmor2> MooDoo: me owld mucka
<diddledan__> m00
<MooDoo> how are you davmor2 and diddledan__ with the tail
<diddledan__> I'm good ta
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> intrbiz: re-pong
 * diddledan holds his nose
<diddledan> re-pong is worse than pong because you're doing it a second time
<diddledan> stinky!
<diddledan> http://bsodanalysis.blogspot.co.uk/2015/06/samsung-deliberately-disabling-windows.html
<davmor2> MooDoo: I'm good thanks you?  sorry lots of work and pings :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: not to worry mate
<ujjain> hey, will linux servers crash at the leap second 2015 next week?
<bigcalm> Tempting to be deviant....but I can't bring myself to be so
<bigcalm> ujjain: no
<ujjain> I have a very old kernel and I can't update it though
<ujjain> Linux 3.2.0-38-virtual #61-Ubuntu SMP Tue Feb 19 12:37:47 UTC 2013 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
<directhex> ujjain: no - but individual daemons might
<directhex> you'll just see "Clock: inserting leap second 23:59:60 UTC" in dmesg
<Azelphur> Can anyone recommend a good board/cpu/case for a home server / transcoding build? currently looking at http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/MpNFxr and wondering if anything better is available
<davmor2> Azelphur: http://www.serversplus.com/servers/tower_servers/hp_tower_servers/814483-421
<davmor2> Azelphur: or http://www.serversplus.com/servers/tower_servers/fujitsu_tower_servers/svfuj-t1311sx070 with Â£100 cashback
<davmor2> Azelphur: also http://www.dabs.com/products/asus-amd-fm-performance-bundle--includes-a88xm-a-fm2---a10-7700k--corsair-8gb-ddr3-vengeance-pro--B8P5.html?src=3 if you want to build yourself
<davmor2> Azelphur: but to be honest if it is mostly a server buy a server :)
<diddledan> I filed a bug in mozilla! :-o https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1177098
<lubotu3> Mozilla bug 1177098 in Untriaged "registerProtocolHandler raises an NS_ERROR_XPC_JAVASCRIPT_ERROR_WITH_DETAILS exception: "aWindow.QueryInterface is not a function"" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<daftykins> :o
<diddledan> bbl
<Azelphur> Interesting question, I have a 5TB drive with data on it, I have two more 5TB drives that are empty. Can I set up RAID5 without having to move the data off the 5TB somehow?
<popey> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Convert_a_single_drive_system_to_RAID
<popey> seems needlessly complicated :)
<popey> http://raider.sourceforge.net/ may be better
<davmor2> popey: it's archlinux ofcourse it is overly complicated :P
<daftykins> hehe
<popey> hmmm http://paste.ubuntu.com/11769090/
<popey> keeps dropping off the sata bus
<popey> my windows boot disk, which is annoying
<popey> have a feeling it's just the connector
<daftykins> ugh sandforce
<popey> yeah, it's one of my older ssds
<popey> think it's probably due replacement
<daftykins> popey: your means of getting GTA goodness aren't hugely successful are they? :)
<popey> haha
<daftykins> how'd the Amazon prod go with regard to the iffy drive btw?
<popey> i am not convinced the hdd was iffy now
<daftykins> did they want it back, or?
<daftykins> oh? but it had 14 sectors awaiting remap?
<popey> too much like coincidence to have two drives in the machine fail
<popey> yeah, this one is more important to fix first
<daftykins> did that ddrescue run through fine to clone it?
<popey> amazon initially refuse to take it back because it's beyond the 1 month
<popey> yes
<daftykins> ah good good
<popey> so I have another disk in the machine
<daftykins> i'd zero fill it to force all the remaps to complete, then have another look at the smartctl output to see what the final tally of remaps is
<popey> yeah, once I fix this ssd :)
<daftykins> *nod*
<popey> its doing a smartctl long test
<popey> 48 mins left
<daftykins> IME if the cabling is all fine, all wonky SSDs seem to behave after a nice secure erase
<daftykins> hrmm i should drop that mates WD Purple serial number into my account to have it reg'd
<daftykins> i wonder if you can label them to know which belongs to whom
<popey> well, it's interesting here to note that in a USB caddy this disk hasn't failed at all
<popey> yet it fails off pretty much immediately after boot in desktop
<daftykins> hrmm
<daftykins> so could be as simple as a cable as you say?
<popey> yeah, hopeful
 * popey goes to make food and stop watching this disk light flash :)
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> oh yeah it's getting that sorta time
<davmor2> popey: you are going to watch it over ssh on your phone aren't you
<daftykins> XD
<davmor2> popey: you byobu has a raid item right ;)
<popey> bah
<popey> its now dropped
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11769256/
<popey> thats bad
<daftykins> wowzer
<daftykins> heh SSD in RPM shocker
<popey> yeah, maybe I shouldn't have it on a high speed turntable
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> that'd fit so well if Windows was boot looping
<popey> i have a plan
<popey> one day
<popey> Right, so we're gonna dd zeros on this original 4TB, right daftykins ?
 * popey kicks off a smartctl -t long on it
<daftykins> popey: yep
<popey> guess I could dd zeros while smart does its thang
<daftykins> on the same, or on the SSD?
<popey> ssd is toast
<popey> this is the 4TB
<daftykins> ah ok
 * popey puts ssd in server and tries to get something off it with ddrescue
<popey> worth a punt, if it works I can dd it back to another disk and I'm back up and running
<daftykins> ^_^
<popey> found another ssd on my desk which I could use, but it's 5G smaller, so will need to mount the image and shrink the partition inside it
<popey> or I could use something else, ah I dunno.
<daftykins> mmm i've had to perform too much trickery with clonezilla to get around a size mismatch like that
<popey> once I get it into an image I can happily play around with it
<popey> might just be easier to put it on a bigger disk tho
<popey> assuming I get the data off this!
<daftykins> doin' the ol' chess manouevre of thinking many steps ahead :>
<popey> ha
<popey> yes, i have a plan! Got a spare 2TB disk I think I'll use instead.
<popey> ddrescue: input file disappeared: No such file or directory
<popey> haha
<popey> that fails then
 * popey will keep trying
<daftykins> surely not much to it beside a stock Windows install?
<popey> yeah, it's just the time hassle
<popey> I'd just rather not
<daftykins> hmm, could be equal!
<daftykins> would be nice if Microsoft respun media regularly, to stop the Windows Update wait
<popey> yeah, there's tons on there I dont want to reinstall
<daftykins> ah i was assuming it was there for the games alone
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: the windows 10 isos are refreshed every time a new build comes out :)
<MartijnVdS> but that's betas
<popey> yeah, its mostly games but there's a few other things on it
<popey> and it has accounts for the kids with their nonsense
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: yeah so completely moot reply, but given the new rolling release approach who knows? maybe they'll do periodic ones
<diddledan_> yawn
<shauno> harrow
<diddledan_> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-33237863
#ubuntu-uk 2015-06-25
<diddledan> so, as this is a "family friendly" environment, when is it safe to talk about wily?
<knightwise> morning
<MooDoo> morning all
<mapps> arhgh
<mapps> struggling to sleep:(
<MooDoo> I did last night, didn't get to sleep until after 1
<mapps> ive been up since 11am yest...4am-11 slept then got flight at 4 then work
<zmoylan-pi> slept from midnight to 0400
<mapps> im getting irritated lying there trying
<zmoylan-pi> some sort of projector that projects sheep in a field on the ceiling...
<directhex> "relax melodies" for android/ios/wp
<knightwise> good morning everyone
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: have you tried grey noise ?
<knightwise> i listen to loops of scifi sounds to get me to sleep
<zmoylan-pi> just about to say a white noise generator.  relaxing waves sometimes helps
<mapps> i sleep with the tv on have done for years..maybe its keeping me u too tho
<mapps> the light and the noise
<knightwise> like 12 hours of the Enterprise warp core and stuff
<knightwise> https://www.youtube.com/user/crysknife007
<zmoylan-pi> in summer the drone of fan in bedroom helps.  i can get asleep but after 4 hours wake up
<knightwise> this guy makes great loops
<zmoylan-pi> no matter how tired and then can't get back to sleep
<zmoylan-pi> light from new tvs might be bad for you.  versus crts that is
<knightwise> have you tried f.lux ?
<knightwise> app to adjust your screen temperature
<mapps> hm  wats that
<mapps> i use laptop to watch tv btw not a proper tv
<zmoylan-pi> for a good guide to good sleep habits see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_hygiene
<knightwise> https://justgetflux.com/
<zmoylan-pi> i use twilight on android tablet when watching shows at night which adjusts the screen temp
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: thats a great app too. I use that when I read ebooks
<zmoylan-pi> on my feature phone which i use as ereader i just have it set to green text on black background for night mode
<TwistedLucidity> zmoylan-pi: Hipster! :-P
<bashrc_> happy hug a hipster day
<foobarry> just don't wear velcro
<MooDoo> yay for debmirror :D
<MooDoo> how is everyone doing this morning?
<foobarry> aaa---aaa---aaa---cho
<foobarry> oooooooooo
<popey> \o/ school sports day
<popey> I'm outta here o/
<TwistedLucidity> MooDoo: I am shattered, was up w-a-y too late last night/this morning helping a mate.
<ujjain> \o\
<ujjain> \o/
<ujjain> popey, have fun at school sports day, don't let the kids bully you
<foobarry> be careful in the dads race
<MooDoo> TwistedLucidity: yeah i was up late :(
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Global Beatles Day! ð
<TwistedLucidity> Down with globalism! Support your local Beatle!
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<zmoylan-pi> well liverpool is close to dublin...
<JamesTait> https://youtu.be/lyyDwOzJ9XI
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz8zVQ0XTR8
<JamesTait> davmor2, wrong kind of Beatle. ð   Interesting anyway, though. I didn't realise they were that big.
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> JamesTait: :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: morning dude
<MooDoo> :D
<davmor2> it's popey coming round the last bend, oh he stumbles, drops his egg and then stamps on it, they think it's all over it is now!
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://vimeo.com/86120207
<streaming> hi all, I'm installing a program and I'd like a confirmation. does the  program compile all the operating system?
<foobarry> huh?
<davmor2> streaming: depends on the program, depends how it installs and depends what platforms it is available for
<foobarry> do you mean you are installing the operating system
<foobarry> if so, then the OS is already compiled
<streaming> ok, lubuntu 15.04 and linphone 3.8.4
<foobarry> what instructions are you following?
<streaming> readme included in the package...
<foobarry> http://sourcedigit.com/16199-install-linphone-3-8-4-on-ubuntu-15-04-ubuntu-14-04-and-derivatives/
<foobarry> you can install it here. you don't need to compile it
<streaming> ok, thank you very much for info
<foobarry> no problem
<streaming> I selected linphone but not sure if it's the best choice for lubuntu. is it?
<davmor2> streaming: if lubuntu has empathy install there is a fairly reliable telepathy-sofiasip plugin you can use for empathy
<davmor2> streaming: if it is using pidgin there might be a sip plugin for that too
<davmor2> czajkowski: one for you http://dog-shame.com/post/46575891914/i-eat-crayons-and-poop-rainbows
<czajkowski> awww
<davmor2> czajkowski: see I know :)
 * brobostigon just heard HMS enterprise on DP, and smiled.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> afternoon even bigcalm :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: tis always morning on the t'interwebs
<MooDoo> it's always morning for someone
<shauno> morning is a function of caffeine, not time
<DenHaagenDazs> knightwise: I made it to Holland ! Just sat in the hotel room on reddit - sisters wedding is in 2 days !
<knightwise> Wicked DenHaagenDazs :) How is the flat country treating you   ?
<knightwise> make sure you try out some "Maatjes" and "Broodje kroket"
<DenHaagenDazs> Pretty good - loads of cyclists & mopeds about - the boat from Hull took about 11 hours .. shame I can't meet up - but there you go - just have to keep listening to your podcasts.
<knightwise> No worries man :) Yeah , the ferry from Hull takes a while :)
<knightwise> We use to do weekend trips from Oostende to Hull
<DenHaagenDazs> Might be a nice place to retire to ?
<knightwise> Where are you at ? den hague ?
<DenHaagenDazs> I mean - everyone just seems 'normal' .
<DenHaagenDazs> "Normal" - it's been a while.
<DenHaagenDazs> :)
<DenHaagenDazs> I'm in Voorschoten at a hotel.
<DenHaagenDazs>  posh one too.
<knightwise> Cool beans :) yap , you are way up north from me :)
<DenHaagenDazs> Ok , how's it like where you are ? 'cos here - it's baking hot .
<knightwise> kinda the same:)
<DenHaagenDazs> fair dooes.
<knightwise> but just a smooth summer day :) you must not be used to much :p
<DenHaagenDazs> No , the folks have all gone to town with sis.  said I'd hank around the posh hotel for an hour or so.
<DenHaagenDazs> **hang
<knightwise> if you want to taste the "special brownies" you're in the right country :)
<DenHaagenDazs> Any Ubuntu news happening/occuring while I've been offline ?
<DenHaagenDazs> Note: I'm still trying to get @JonoBacon to join in with a community session - bad voltage is out today.
<DenHaagenDazs> i.e. the Tuesdays 4pm QnAnswer session with popey etc.
<DenHaagenDazs> http://community.badvoltage.org/t/1x45-tons-of-it-about/10513
<knightwise> does anyone know any good Mumble channels where they talk tech  ?
<knightwise> kinda looking for some background chatter when I work from home
<DenHaagenDazs> knightwise: Stay away from linuxbasix - Try the LAS crew - they do mumble.
<DenHaagenDazs> knightwise: This seems pretty current at moment : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvVUBZy_MHE
 * popey restarts ddrescue for the bazillionth time
 * davmor2 think popey is exaggerating 
<davmor2> popey: how was the egg and spoon race?
<popey> its at least 20th time
<popey> recovered 62GB of 120GB
<popey> getting there, does about 3GB per run then the disk dies
<popey> 66GB...
<DenHaagenDazs> Holy Mojo : I'm 37 and I've just realised I've got afew grey hairs ! Jeeszsh - I hope it's the sun effect and not for ever.
<foobarry> i have some
<foobarry> they arrived with child number 1 , 2 and now i'm 40 i have to manage the situation by occasional plucking
<DenHaagenDazs> kinda scarey isn't it ?
<davmor2> pfffff I've been greying and bald since I was 18, get a life with your pluckable greys
<DenHaagenDazs> I wonder if smoking has an effect ?
<DenHaagenDazs> should I collect them and have a funeral pyer at the end of my thirtees ?
<popey> i find my hair looks less grey if I have 'product' (ick) on it
<popey> if it's just been washed/dried it looks really salt+pepper
<DenHaagenDazs> what the heck is (ick)  ? Is that just for men or smething ?
<davmor2> DenHaagenDazs: probably bryl cream knowing popey :D
<DenHaagenDazs> popey: Has anyone aired the need for a Ubuntu snap for phones program that is being dev'd , but not yet released, recently ?
 * DenHaagenDazs wants some juicy bits of inner knowledge today :)
<popey> "ick" is my reaction after using the word 'product'
<popey> 86GB!
<popey> nearly
 * popey wonders if it's overheating
 * popey points fans at the ssd
<DenHaagenDazs> popey: One last question: Can you record voice ( phone conversations ) on the Ubuntu touch at all ?
<popey> not yet
<popey> ubuntu phone will move to snappy
<popey> probably next year
<DenHaagenDazs> oh pooey.
<DenHaagenDazs> you can do on *droid (just sayin').
 * DenHaagenDazs just realised that his chromebook automatically adjusted to Eu time-zone That's pretty mint.
<popey> There's a lot you can do on Android, the phone platform which has been around for 7 years and is funded by a 66Bn dollar company
<popey> \o/ 92G
 * bashrc_ is doing some android stuff currently (openkeychain)
<davmor2> popey: that was quick has it got to the empty bits of the drive or something?
<popey> I think it's because the drive is on its side
<popey> it comes out faster
 * brobostigon uses openkeychain on droid with his yubikey neo.
<bashrc_> are yubikeys worth having?
<davmor2> bashrc: they are if you have the infrastructure that can use them :)
<bashrc_> I think yubikey is something like OTP. I've not investigated how they work
<brobostigon> they can do otp amongst other things, i use mine as an openpgp smartcard as well.
<bashrc_> to store the private key, or just the passphrase?
<brobostigon> private key, and subkeys.
<davmor2> bashrc: they basically transmit a block of data and a newline key, nothing though dictates what the data block is, so you can add google authenticator to it or whatever else :)
<bashrc_> I see. I don't think they're very expensive so I might get one and play around with it
<DenHaagenDazs> ok bye for now .. not sure if I can log on again in holland - wish me luck for my piece at the wedding. bye
<awilkins> Yeah I keep meaning to get one
<awilkins> They do NFC ones too
<awilkins> I think  Password Safe supports the NFC on Android
<brobostigon> the yubikey neo has nfc. it does yes awilkins
<awilkins> I've never had a mess around with one
<awilkins> Been aware of them for a while
<brobostigon> they are quite flexible.
<awilkins> They are *rather* more expensive than SecureID tokens
<awilkins> But I have no idea what the SecureID infrastructure costs are
 * brobostigon googles SecureID
<awilkins> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/25x-emc-RSA-SecurID-token-25-security-id-tokens-keys-new-W16-/311304770236?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368
<awilkins> RSA's wee time-synced 2FA thing
<awilkins> Ok, that was a bad way to price them
<awilkins> Apparently they run from $25 to $100 a shot usually
<brobostigon> definatly more expensive than a yubikey.
<awilkins> The $50 yubikeys definitely have more features
<awilkins> And are probably a world easier to use
<awilkins> With the RSA it's a game of "type the number before it disappears from the screen"
<awilkins> Yubikey - plug-plip - done
<brobostigon> yes definatly.
<Azelphur> That feeling when your boss asks you to do something for the first time and you tell him you already did it, yesterday :P
<davmor2> popey: so did you win the egg and spoon race I never did get an answer ;)
<popey> No eggs or spoons were hurt during the making of the sports day.
<davmor2> hahaha
<zmoylan-pi> though the 3 legged race ended up with a suprising number of amputations...
<davmor2> hahaha
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: they'll wish they used rope instead of handcuffs
<zmoylan-pi> some used epoxy to save time... :-)
<linuxrules> \\#
<linuxrules> am trying to win an argument with a friend - which is more revolutionary - iphone or ubuntu phone
<linuxrules> what do people say
<shauno> iphone, easy
<bashrc_> why is iphone revolutionary?
<zmoylan-pi> because it made most of the population run apps on their phones even though they could already do that
<shauno> did you see what android looked like before it ?
<bashrc_> no
<popey> they couldn't do that very well
<popey> symbian got a store very late in the game
<popey> and it didn't have many apps
<zmoylan-pi> symbian store broke symbian as the cost of putting apps in there was too much
<zmoylan-pi> loads of apps were available for symbian but every year a new variant of symbian came out making all previous apps incompatible
<zmoylan-pi> which annoyed developers for some reason
<popey> who knew, people like compatibility
<zmoylan-pi> every year i had to find a new ereader :-)
<zmoylan-pi> but that was too much hassle for most folk so it never took off
<shauno> this is what android looked like in 2006, the same year the iphone was released - http://obamapacman.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Android-prototype.jpg
<bashrc_> cool
<zmoylan-pi> the original iphone DIDN'T shoot video, run apps, do 3g data, multitask, last all day
<zmoylan-pi> still waiting on the last one :-D
<shauno> no, but it did pretty much define what smartphones meant for the next 10 years.  broke the control the telcos had over the phones, and sank most the major phone makers of the day
<bashrc_> maybe so. I don't pay much attention to iThings
<zmoylan-pi> the mainstream media jumped on board with the jesus phone but it was and to me still is a mediocre device
<zmoylan-pi> i got one to see what the fuss was.  i offered it to anyone who wanted it at half price and got no takers
<bashrc_> jesus
<popey> you suck at sales
<zmoylan-pi> not really, i only insisted they try it for a week first.
<zmoylan-pi> and for folks used to nokia battery life that was for most the deal breaker
<shauno> the original was pretty sketchy, but I still think it's fair to say it kick-started a revolution
<zmoylan-pi> it showed the success of marketing over intelligence...
<shauno> and most the big names in phones today are companies that got on that revolution.  plenty got off.  most the 'big names' 10 years ago are footnotes today
<zmoylan-pi> don't rule nokia out yet :-P
<shauno> are they the one msft bought?
<zmoylan-pi> yup
<zmoylan-pi> i have a ms nokia dumbphone here.  great device
<shauno> hah, sure.  I'll offer up some claim chowder and write them off then :)
<shauno> until msft are willing to put android on them instead of windows, they down with blackberry fighting over the dog's dinner
<zmoylan-pi> seems ms are going to push dumbphones as their own winphone is going nowhere fast
<zmoylan-pi> but only in developing markets
<zmoylan-pi> nokia branded phones will be back on the market next year.  renting the name out by looks of it
<shauno> I do like that apple & google have come out roughly 50/50 in this one though.  the competition is good.
<shauno> I don't own stock, a winner doesn't benefit me. the competition does.
<zmoylan-pi> i like the powerbank phone :-D you can offer to recharge your mates iphone or android while you use it http://qz.com/411330/the-mystery-of-the-power-bank-phone-taking-over-ghana/
<shauno> I can see the value, but I live in a country where I can reliably expect electricity at home, so I don't need an extra kilo of battery
<zmoylan-pi> relaible electricty is reliable till a power cut
<shauno> right.  I mean I can make a reasoned judgment on how often I'll regret having a kilo in my pocket vs how often my power goes out
<shauno> I've lived here 9 years without a power cut.  but I do wear pants quite often
<zmoylan-pi> my brother living in rural area expects to have a few days per year without leccy.  he ususally runs the house with inverter in his van
<shauno> I did pop the breaker though, when I set the kitchen on fire.  that might count
<zmoylan-pi> and i have noticed that while a lot of folk have smartphones an increasing number have ancient nokias for backup when batteries die on smartphones
<diddledan> shauno: firekitchen ftw
<zmoylan-pi> deep fat fried android....
<zmoylan-pi> deep fat fried iphone would be the healthy option :-)
<shauno> I do have a nice big usb battery thing though, for when I'm travelling
<zmoylan-pi> and most people with smart phones carry chargers to top up during the day
<shauno> sure
<shauno> the main difference there though isn't the battery.  it's that people with smartphones tend to use them all day
<shauno> it's not just sat on standby waiting for a call for 99% of its life
<zmoylan-pi> they use them till they start to run low
<shauno> a dumb phone is just one function away from just carrying around a battery all day and marvelling that it never runs out :)
<zmoylan-pi> well my dumbphone is ereader, web, irc, email, music, fm radio, camera, rss
<zmoylan-pi> there is an ssh client but i haven't set it up yet
<zmoylan-pi> and heavy use 14 hours or so on saturday was still 50% which is furthest i've got it down in 1 day
<shauno> hm.  I just noticed my soldering iron was on
<shauno> this could be an interesting electricity bill.  it's been at least a week since I used it
<shauno> hm, logs ftw, the 15th, when I was trying to route more power to the serial ports on my amiga
<shauno> luckily it's a temperature-controlled one, not just a 'shove electricity into the element' one, so it shouldn't idle at its max wattage.  but still.  what an idiot.
<zmoylan-pi> thankfullly no one hurt
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: except shauno's pride?
<runtime-exceptio> Hello
<runtime-exceptio> Is there a command I can do or a function I can call within Python to list all currently mounted ramdisks on the system?
<funkyHat> runtime-exceptio: mount -t tmpfs && mount -t ramfs
<funkyHat> Oh bye
<diddledan> does anyone have a brief synopsis on how canonical's lxd is different to lxc?
<popey> I can smell bbq
<popey> diddledan: https://linuxcontainers.org/lxd/introduction/
<diddledan> it's something I keep meaning to find out about
<diddledan> thanks popey
<diddledan> I see, so lxd is a bit like an lxc-specific libvirt-style thing
<diddledan> lol: http://www.viper007bond.com/2010/06/12/so-apparently-wordpress-can-guide-missiles/
<popey> i found a fun one in doctor who. they used the source of an svg file from wikipedia
<popey> http://i.imgur.com/nKC9w.jpg
<diddledan> I was carbon-copied into dr who: http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Daniel_Llewellyn
<diddledan> the alpha wily has been unleashed!?!
<diddledan> </innuendo>
<diddledan> http://t.co/oUld9zRGQT <-- LOL
<davmor2> popey: I love the smell of BBQ in the morning
<zmoylan-pi> prorbably a ham sandwich left on shauno's soldering iron... :-)
<diddledan> https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2015/06/25/can-you-trust-tors-exit-nodes/
<sebsebsebb> anyone got a meizu ?
<diddledan> sebsebsebb: have they run-out already?
<sebsebsebb> diddledan: I don't know I got a invvite straight away when I tried to get one :)
<sebsebsebb> not bought just yet though, but soon
<sebsebsebb> ,but
<diddledan> I don't have money yet
<sebsebsebb> well not sure if they will sell after tommorow...
<sebsebsebb> and meant to use the invite in 72 hours I read
<sebsebsebb> what  bothers me a bit is how it only seems to be the 16gb version like that, and really there's a 32gb MX4 phone as well
<sebsebsebb> diddledan: as  for the colour, what's better white and silver, or white and gold hmm.  I think I am going Gold just, because I don't really have any tech devices so far in that colour
<diddledan> hmm
<diddledan> gold sounds nice
<sebsebsebb> yeah, but it's just a colour
<sebsebsebb> not real Gold :d
<diddledan> lol
<sebsebsebb> yep two colour options, but the white silver one looks like ipad to me
<sebsebsebb> diddledan: wel it's a white front, and then silver or gold on the back it  seems
#ubuntu-uk 2015-06-26
<diddledan> oh, new linuxvoice podcast
 * diddledan listens
<diddledan> so leap seconds. Is there a project out-there that does the googley smear?
<shauno> I think the googley smear actually sounds more dangerous
<shauno> it works for google because they dictate the entire chain, and customize at-will
<shauno> and have the resources to test, test, and test again at scale
<shauno> but like, for you and I running 2 or 3 boxes at home.  we can't (or don't have the resources) make our ntp servers lie like that
<shauno> so you get stuff like what behaviour do you expect if the system's been "smearing" all day and then the ntp servers issue a leap indicator
<diddledan> we need a smearscan
<shauno> or do you expect 3 machines to smear in unison if the ntp server isn't doing it
<diddledan> I found this tho: https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/time/utc-sls/
<shauno> I suspect it's solving the wrong problem though
<shauno> we really should be able to expect stuff to handle the standard without exploding
<diddledan> I would suggest that human time be considered separately from computer time and have conversions rather than having the whole computer world rely on inaccurate numbers
<shauno> I mean, planes don't drop out of the sky every feb 29th.  the only real difference is that we remember to take one into account, but not the other
<diddledan> I like the idea of TAI
<shauno> if someone suggested we 'solve' leap years by making most the days in february 25 hours long, you'd laugh them out of the room
<diddledan> true
<diddledan> TBH I don't really understand why leapseconds are so dangerous
<diddledan> as you say, we do it with an entire day in februaru
<shauno> it's just much easier to forget they exist
<shauno> as far as I can tell it's really that simple.  things that need to take it into account didn't.  and now we don't trust anything to get it right
<shauno> almost entirely unrelated, our (physical) access system at work still doesn't grok DST
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> how does that effect things?
<diddledan> affect*
<shauno> I'm allowed in the building after 5:30am.  which means one day a year, I can't let myself in for a 6am shift
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> fun
<diddledan> time limits on staff seems craycray to me
<shauno> so sunday morning security let us in manually, monday morning they just unlock everything at 6am, and sometime monday someone changes the clock on the system, and things go back to normal
<diddledan> if you're in the building after the timelock of re-entry does it refuse to let you out?
<shauno> no, they can't lock us in
<shauno> there's all kinds of fire issues with that :)
<diddledan> bah
<diddledan> fire shmire
<shauno> I just find it an interesting parallel because it's basically the same problem
<diddledan> they should make you burn
<shauno> DST existed before the system was built, and will likely outlive it.  so this scenario will exist for the product's entire lifecycle
<diddledan> that's a good point. twice a year we add and remove stuff
<shauno> the fact that it wasn't taken into account is the actual problem
<diddledan> so really leapseconds aren't without precedent in other places
<shauno> as I understand it they're the primary difference between GMT and UTC
<diddledan> we manage it in february. and mostly with DST.
<shauno> (that, and a name that offends the french less than GMT does)
<diddledan> UTC was invented for the radio time signals (per the link above)
<shauno> as I understand it, it would have been UCT in english, or TUC in french.  so UTC was picked so it favoured neither.
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> I like CUT
<shauno> which would bother me less if the french actually used this timezone
<diddledan> one slip and you have a swear
<shauno> I like the politically-correct versions of GMT & BST
<shauno> or the un-britished versions, at least
<shauno> "western european time" and "western european summer time".  so ireland it WET in the winter and WEST in the summer
<diddledan> right on both counts
<diddledan> ireland is most definitely wet in the winter
<shauno> and also bothers me that no-one actually uses these :)
<shauno> we have a few systems that call it IST - irish summer time.  which confuses our bangalore developers no end, because they're on Indian Standard Time
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> great fun
<shauno> and Lotus goes out on a limb and uses GDT for ... greenwich dst time?  greenwich daylight time?
<shauno> and of course, being a pedant, I really, really don't like getting meeting invitations for a timezone that doesn't exist
<shauno> it's a shame greenland doesn't use GDT, else I'd have a perfectly shaun excuse to show up 3 hours late for meetings
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> German International Time
<shauno> anyway.  there's a whole lot about timezones that irks me :)
<shauno> eg, I think they should be centered on their zero mark, not with one edge on the zero mark
<diddledan> to be fair, you usually find something irking in most everything :-p
<shauno> 5am will do that to anyone :)
<diddledan> I don't get the specific ocean islands' timezone divisions - straight lines? not so much.
<shauno> that's usually to make trade easier
<shauno> like one island? group? hopped from one side of the international date line to the other, because they trade almost exclusively with the other.  so not having spare days everywhere was a huge boost
<shauno> "sorry, office is closed, it's saturday here"
<diddledan> maybe times should be "atomic + longitude" rather than zoned
<diddledan> so you know that 123+8 is close to 123+9
<shauno> you don't think being 4 minutes behind london would bug you?
<diddledan> you'd still have a split at 360degrees but you know that 123+360 is close to 124+1
<shauno> the 10 o'clock news would be ruined :/
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> america seems to cope with that
<diddledan> just say "at news at 123+0"
<shauno> kinda, but still on round numbers
<diddledan> that way you know to adjust by your own position
<diddledan> would make mental arithmatic be required but they're supposed to teach that in school
<shauno> and an overly peverse knowledge of geography when you want to coordinate something with someone in another town
<diddledan> nah, phones have gps - just ask siri what your offset it
<diddledan> is*
<shauno> wouldn't work here, I jumped on the beta train a little too early, and seem to suffer from the South Atlantic Ocean bug
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> that sounds fun
<diddledan> I love that your bike ride burned a LOT of calories
<shauno> some things which are meant to default to "the last known position" when I don't have a good gps signal, default to 0,0 instead
<diddledan> you should share your route online
<diddledan> "kayak to kyoto"
<shauno> nah, it seems to use my pulse for calories.  it's just the distance that can be nearly 100km out
<shauno> I seem to get a 70,000km detour every time I go around the docks
<diddledan> meh
<diddledan> we get diversions all the time
<shauno> (which, ironically, is a shortcut)
<shauno> it's actually the weather that bugs me with it though.  the cycling thing is just funny
<shauno> anyway.  where do I file a bug report to get a timezone moved east by 7.5 degrees?
<diddledan> erm
<diddledan> try alt.time.zones
<diddledan> (does anyone use usenet for talking these days?)
<diddledan> I figure usenet is purely binary hosting
<shauno> it's probably safer to assume that.  the people that do still use it properly are kinda weird
<shauno> so, here's my plan
<shauno> instead of me being >30 minutes behind solar time
<shauno> GMT should be Â±7.5 degrees of zero
<shauno> so no-one in it is more than 30 minutes from solar
<shauno> and we can make a new timezone west of it for ireland and portugal to live in
<shauno> it'd also make gmt/utc fit france better, so they can quit pretending that adding 1 to a train timetable is difficult
<shauno> CET does properly boggle my mind.  it's geographically centered close to vienna.  so spain using it means they're over an hour off solar time
<shauno> if they just make it 15Â±7.5, central european time would actually cover central europe.  instead of just being a crutch for anyone who needed an excuse for not being able to run their trains on time
<diddledan> I might upgrade something to ubuntu 15.10 soon, and then break it. That way I can go into #ubuntu and ask for someone to "fix my wily"
<shauno> :(
<shauno> surely you'd properly ask in +1 ?
<diddledan> good point
<diddledan> I forgot about that
<shauno> then you'd have the problem where it's likely difficult to come up with a wily joke they haven't heard yet
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> how about a "shared wily which doesn't cope with all the people using it"
<diddledan> or maybe that should be "abusing"
<shauno> that's awkward.  I can only imagine you hovering the mouse over the "Affects me" link with a forveralone.gif face
<shauno> http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/06/26/autos-selfdriving-nearmiss-idINL1N0ZB2UY20150626
<shauno> it's a shame they didn't actually collide.  it'd be interesting to see them have to find one at fault
<diddledan> sounds like delphi are just blowing their trumpet to say "look at how good our car was at not hitting the dangerous google one"
<shauno> no kidding
<knightwise> mornin peeps
<diddledan> interesting. maybe my bsods are caused by shadow copies
<diddledan> I just noticed this bsod was immediately preceeded by my usb3 drive firing up to accept a copy (that's all the drive is used for)
 * diddledan unplugs it to see how things go
<diddledan> allo knightwise
<mapps> ello;]
<mapps> tv time..new series of graceland started
<diddledan> is that about michael jackson?>
<mapps> no:P
<diddledan> or was graceland elvis?
<diddledan> I forget
<mapps> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2393813/
<mapps> gibraltar really is an odd one at times
<mapps> 'New iPhones from Gibtelecom
<mapps> Gibtelecom today announced it will offer iPhone 6 and iPhone 6 Plus, the biggest advancements in iPhone history, beginning from Friday 26th June '
<mapps> only been out since september..how exciting
<diddledan> there'll be a new one in a month or two
<mapps> pop to uk or spain and get it when its launched
<mapps> or wait 11months?
<diddledan> eh? didn't google get out of the project hosting service? https://cloud.google.com/tools/cloud-repositories/
<mapps> hm
<diddledan> looks like it's more tied with their paas tho
<mapps> urgh
<mapps> its so hot
<mapps> im sweating loads lying dead still
<mapps> cant have my windows open..car park behind
<MooDoo> morning all
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> I'm at the caravan already we'd had enough of yesterday so came here early :)
<MooDoo> hello davmor2 :D
<MooDoo> where are you at the moment?
<davmor2> MooDoo: Ebury Hill shrewsbury we have a seasonal pitch
<MooDoo> ooo lovely, long weekend away?
<davmor2> MooDoo: I'm at work today so not really
<MooDoo> davmor2: ah right, well i'm sure you'll have a lot of fun
<davmor2> MooDoo: it's more the relax you get here and go aaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
<MooDoo> davmor2: sounds lovely, i'm off to bakewell again in a few weeks :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: nice :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: but at the moment, i'm copying data back to my ubuntu storage server 400gb takes for ever :D
<diddledan> MooDoo: over the ether?
<diddledan> PAYDAY!
<popey> \o/ payday
<diddledan> popey: I wonder if I'll magic up an mx4 invite today?
<davmor2> diddledan: no
<diddledan> davmor2: correct
<diddledan> davmor2: just had my three tries
<MooDoo> diddledan: i converted my storage server from debian back to ubuntu, just copying data back from my nas
<diddledan> how come "storage server" doesn't count as nas?
<MooDoo> diddledan: your right, i'm copying data from my NAS device to my 1u server :D
<MooDoo> oh you know what i mean :D
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> intrbiz: have I returned your serial cable or have I lost my marbles?
<diddledan> marbles. definitely the marbles
<diddledan> interesting. sophos are going for an IPO?
<diddledan> (Rory Cellan-Jones tweeted about it)
<popey> Right, so i have put a completely different disk in my desktop and it's giving me io errors again.
<popey> I suspect the motherboard is phut now.
<popey> After a lot of wasted time faffing about with disks
<MooDoo> non faffing if you got your data back :D
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> the data was never gone
<popey> I have backups
<popey> the faffing was swapping disks about to get it to boot and be usable
<diddledan> popey: might be a wonkywire?
<popey> now I boot it and it throws io errors
<popey> tried multiple wires
<diddledan> bah
<popey> will rip all the wires out and try one by one though, to be sure
<MooDoo> stupid computers
<MooDoo> i must admit i was getting really fedup with centos on my server last night, I reformatted and put ubuntu on it lol
 * TwistedLucidity offers the use of a large axe
 * TwistedLucidity makes a note to return neighbour's large axe
 * popey adds one to the "moodoo switches distro" counter
<diddledan> I like when you offer to loan your neighbour something and they say "oh that's mine"
<diddledan> ".. I wondered where that had gone"
<diddledan> similar and actual occurance - one xmas my mum gave my brother a nice wooly jumper. it was already his prior to gifting. he'd given it to mum for her to repair. the repair hadn't been done.
<SuperMatt> MooDoo: not fedora? :o
<SuperMatt> I'm running CentOS on my cloud server and it's damn spiffy
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11777629/ hmmm
<popey> check out that seek error rate
<SuperMatt> yowzers
 * popey runs a smart test
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: nope not this time
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: LOL! The delay in gettig the axe back is because I haven't had a chance to sharpen it yet.
<diddledan> TwistedLucidity: he'll cut himself and comment that he didn't recall it being that sharp before
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: fedora/centos have all the same issues, it's just a pain in the neck to get bonding working where as in ubuntu it's a 5 second job
 * diddledan gets a whip out to help MooDoo 
<diddledan> http://www.revk.uk/2015/06/do-they-not-teach-decimal-numbers-in.html?showComment=1435310297269#c7129612416781945849
<diddledan> funny me is funny
<brobostigon> i just noticed something, with the QI charger on my nexus 4, hits 100% screen off, stops charging, doesnt keep it topped up or anything, seems odd behaviour.
<diddledan> brobostigon: you need to keep it awake to charge the sucker?
<brobostigon> diddledan: seems so, keeping it awake drain battery. so its defeatest,
<brobostigon> it defeats the point*
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Chocolate Pudding Day! ð
 * Laney gets paid a suspicious amount
<Laney> I think the student loan repayments have stopped already
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQxLM2u-QY4
<popey> welp, that disk looks dead http://paste.ubuntu.com/11777674/
<diddledan> :-(
<diddledan> grenoble currently in the news over an attack. why must everything like this be "suspected islamist"?!
<diddledan> err. https://twitter.com/andysc/status/614357792271507456/photo/1
 * bashrc_ is probably a "suspected computationalist"
<diddledan> bashrc_: they're the worst!
<knightwise> i"m a radical cross-platformist
<bashrc_> I guess I'm only partly cross platform. I don't do Apple or Windows
<knightwise> I do have to admit i don't have any IOS devices inthe house
<bashrc_> sadly, I'm not radical enough to use the Hurd yet
<knightwise> just did a podcast episode on the surface pro 3
<diddledan> knightwise: is it out?
<knightwise> 3 , not the 4
<diddledan> knightwise: no I mean the podcast episode
<knightwise> yep , just hit the feed
 * diddledan fires up itunes
<knightwise> :)
<knightwise> shoudl be in de feed now
<diddledan> teehee http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/06/26/queen-guard-_n_7669556.html?1435312587
<knightwise> STEP BACK FROM THE QUEENS GUARD !:p
<knightwise> tourists sometimes forget these are trained elite soldiers
<diddledan> yeah - they think it's just an act
<MooDoo>  brilliant
<diddledan> lol @ painted yellow
 * diddledan listening to knightwise podcast :-p
<knightwise> :)
<diddledan> "hey windows.. buttons!"
<diddledan> :-D
<diddledan> yeah that pen loop I couldn't get on with - it was too tight so I couldn't get the pen into it
<diddledan> and trying to do so I kept pulling it off the keyboard meaning the sticky got not sticky
<diddledan> stick figures of two girls dancing in business documents ftw!
<diddledan> knightwise: I'm liking the music this week
<knightwise> diddledan: thanx :)
<knightwise> Daniel Messer sources it and I think there will be a download link to the track in the shownotes
<diddledan> he's chosen some awesome tunes this season
<diddledan> having the podcast use different tunes each ep allows listeners (read: me :-p) to discover things we'd not have come across normally - I prefer that to a standard soundtrack that is repeated every episode (although saying that the ubuntu podcast that popey does has a very well-defined identity with their stock music choice)
<knightwise> yeah , i'm really happy with dans work. He finds the most amazing tunes
<knightwise> during the last storytime episode he even used one of his self composed tracks as a backing track
<diddledan> nice
<knightwise> that track was soo cool I have it (and other pieces of his work) on my phone right now
<knightwise> and its great to have Keith Murray as a producer
<MooDoo> :)
<knightwise> he keeps me on my toes to produce in time and stuff
<daftykins> aaaah just sliced some cheese and spread some branston pickle on the pieces :>
<diddledan> nummy
<daftykins> post office has the replacement screen i ordered off ebay for one of these samsung Galaxy S3s :O
<knightwise> ha
<knightwise> you are gonna fix it yourself diddledan
<knightwise> daftykins:
<daftykins> knightwise: yep
<daftykins> childs play on this one really
<daftykins> the S3 has a horrible glass glued to digitiser glued to LCD glued to frame design, so i just got a full substitute for Â£48
<daftykins> i'll transplant the internals like the motherboard and cameras, then it'll be set
<knightwise>  so no breaking out the iron
<daftykins> don't even own one :>
<daftykins> nah, i have two S3s right here and the LCDs are cracked along with the glass in both, so it'd be a waste
<daftykins> his mum has one that can do with just the new glass on the front though, so he's going to try it i think
<knightwise> i think its criminal how some of these things are built
<daftykins> for some reason he owns the most obscure of tools, so he's got a heat gun to do the glue melting
<daftykins> yeah it is a bit :/
<daftykins> the pursuit of ever thinner devices
<knightwise> true
<daftykins> trouble with this one is the S3 is 3 years old now, pretty close to being pointless to even fix
<daftykins> Â£48 for a device you can buy for Â£100
<diplo> daftykins: Same issue here, I was given 2
<diplo> About Â£80 for the screens, couldnt be bothered
<daftykins> hehe
<ujjain> do Irish people in IT make more than in UK? I see that the Irish have a 20% higher income on average http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29_per_capita
<daftykins> just taken apart this one ready, looks like a lot of time to transfer the components really. but ah well
<daftykins> diplo: did you sell them?
<diplo> Don't know ujjain but they pay a higher tax on their wages afaik
<diplo> Nah, both sat in drawers at home
<daftykins> S3s as well, or?
<ujjain> ah really? my friend said tax was low there, maybe compared to NL, internet didn't show that low tax either
<diplo> 2 x S3's and 1 x S2 with bottom buttons broke
<ujjain> just for corporations
<diplo> Tax on wages was high I thought, tax on companies is low
<daftykins> diplo: post me the S3s? :>
<diplo> I may be completely wrong
<diplo> Didn't you just say you had 2 broke screen ones ?
<diddledan> GDP doesn't equate to wages
<ujjain> ah I thought that was it
<diddledan> GDP is the country's gross income
<diddledan> it stands for "Gross Domestic Product"
<ujjain> I figured most of it would've been caused by salaries though, but I guess other income like oil, going straight to the state counts
<diddledan> no, it's not related to wages at all
<diddledan> e.g. apple headquarters in ireland so a lot of european sales are counted against irish GDP
<shauno> tax is the catch here.  a cursory google will tell you the low band is 20% - it conveniently ignores that we have a second income tax called 'universal social charge' that adds up (an extra 7% for me)
<popey> like national insurance for us?
<shauno> it's a "temporary" tax for the austerity crap
<popey> ah
<shauno> we have the same 20/40 income tax split as the UK, but about 20 ends about 10k lower than in the UK (the split's about about 32k eur, and yours is about 32k gbp lol)
<shauno> and then this extra tax to pay off germany, or however that worked
<diddledan> germany seems to be single-handedly bankrolling the whole of europe
<shauno> it's just something to take into account when you're trying to compare the two.  tech wages do look attractive here, because the sector still thrives on european immigrants
<shauno> so it has to look good so that the take-home is still competitive enough to attract continentals to 300 days of rian
<shauno> *rain
<shauno> or more simply, having half my wage taxed at 47% doesn't make the numbers feel very attractive anymore
<Azelphur> http://imgur.com/bAph37z high score on breaking things
<ujjain> what is the line called in a stock chart?
<ujjain> that shows the central pattern, 1 straight line
<knightwise> watching "mr robot" . cool Tv show
<ujjain> hmm, I just crashed my Excel,
<daftykins> popey: how'd the disk zero go? did those 14 sectors get remap and grow any?
<popey> it all went pear shaped
<daftykins> *remapped
<popey> swapped the disk and cable out
<popey> still getting errors
<popey> so I dunno, motherboard?
<daftykins> ouch, could be the SATA controllers going funky yeah
<popey> which is a bummer
<popey> not looking forward replacing the entire mobo
<TwistedLucidity> Stop, Hammer time!
<daftykins> indeed :( always a nasty job
<daftykins> i'm just poking in the tiny little PCB with the volume control buttons into this new phone front, haha
<daftykins> so ridiculously tiny :>
<popey> need to set aside lots of time to go through and figure out what might be up
<popey> also, should do a memtest
<diddledan> time to make a cuppa - deployment in progress
<diddledan> 10 minutes till the backup is complete then to delete then to replace
 * bashrc_ deploys cuppa
<diddledan> Backing-up remote files... 636 / 4899 [===>----------------------] 12.98 % 9m55s
<diddledan> I like my scripts
<diddledan> script*
<diddledan> technically it's not a script tho. it's written in go so I compiled it
<zmoylan-pi> rewrite it in perl, tamper proof, even from you :-P
<diddledan> err.. no.
<daftykins> memtest \o/
<ujjain> how have salaries developed in the UK?
<ujjain> minimal rise since 2000, right?
<ujjain> http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/files/2015/03/regjohnsonchart3.jpg - seems to show 90's great, since then minimal yeah
<davmor2> ujjain: depends on the company, some are less some are based on inflation and some are higher
<davmor2> ujjain: why the fascination with wages
<ujjain> I just wonder, I live in London and pay much rent, my mate lives in Dublin, we were talking about it.
<ujjain> Just wondering about things. I read in some countries marriage also has a lot of tax benefits.
<davmor2> ujjain: That's because you live in London!  It is one of the worlds most expensive capitals anywhere will seem cheaper, but then you also have to remember that you get london wages too due to the additional expense of living there
<ujjain> well, I think 40k outside of London would be better than 50k in London.
<ujjain> but I'm happy here, for a few years will be fun.
<davmor2> ujjain: I know there are people who commute from Wolverhampton and Coventry to London every day, That's so they get the cheap rent and the better salary.  I only know this because everytime I goto the office I see the same people on the platforms :)
<diplo> My friend comes from Bristol on train on a monday and comes back Thursday night
<diplo> Stays in hotels, works for him
<daftykins> alright if you're single perhaps?
<ujjain> but then you work 20% more... I count travel time as well
<diplo> He's not single, just got married and about to start a family
<ujjain> seems a contractor life, but staying in hotels isn't a cheap option.
<diplo> About a 1/4 of the staff do what he does
<diplo> It's cheaper than renting a place down there ujjain
<diplo> Well he worked it out to be
<ujjain> meh, might actually be similar pricing in London yeah :P
<ujjain> yeah, fair enough
<diplo> He does search around a lot for the best deals though
<diplo> Quite often stays in uni digs etc
<diplo> Uni Halls*
<ujjain> sleeping with other people on the room?
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/222k7jecohmd13b/AABqemkMg4icFEf0Jzjbaj2Ta?dl=0
<daftykins> well that was fun, all working perfectly
<popey> when I worked in Uxbridge we rented out a flat for 4 members of staff, they lived in it during the week
<popey> was way more financially sane than hotels
<daftykins> that's what the banks do over here a lot
<diplo> popey: Nah just get a room each, his boss does the same
<diplo> Quite often empty rooms, the uni rent them out fro more income
 * popey fondly remembers before Y2K when you could expense lavish hotels every week :)
<davmor2> popey: that bug has a lot to answer for ;)
<SuperMatt> I remember when I had dreams of actually owning a house!
<diplo> :)
<popey> I'm never moving
<popey> famous last words
<popey> Can't be doing with that.
<diplo> I want a nicer house, but going to wait till I settle down again
<ujjain> popey, you think such a time could come back? or you think it was just part of the IT bubble?
<popey> yeah, those times will return imo
<popey> it goes in cycles, always does
<popey> we'll all move back to local computing again when the cloud bursts :)
<popey> dunno when that will be though
<ujjain> seems '90's was extreme though, and it's been down a long time, although stock has been up since
<SuperMatt> I don't know, local computing just gives the unthinking too much control over their data
<ujjain> docker / on-metal seems popopular
<SuperMatt> Only the initiated should be allowed to do anything locally
<ujjain> I like how you can do so much via API's and modules with the cloud, but it's very expensive.
<popey> SuperMatt: exactly my point, something new will come along
<popey> people will be empowered or motivated by something new I can't predict
<SuperMatt> ujjain: are you talking about cloud computing? because it's only expensive if you greatly over estimate your requirements
<popey> convergence maybe :)
<ujjain> SuperMatt, we pay 3 million a year
<popey> privacy.. war.. who knows
<ujjain> we are not very good at picking sizes, and pay on-demand for reserved, etc, but still
<popey> Maybe some startup pays people to compute at home or something
<SuperMatt> hmmm, convergence may do it, but it means relying on small form factor devices with little space
<SuperMatt> ujjain: who are you with?
<ujjain> AWS
<SuperMatt> ah ok
<SuperMatt> I'm at Rackspace
<SuperMatt> I would have looked up your account if I could
<intrbiz_cr> if you compare the cost of the resources provided, cloud is always more expensive than physical kit in a DC
<intrbiz_cr> that is excluding staffing costs etc
<ujjain> ah, I worked at Rackspace :P
<popey> Some new tool may come along which does secure p2p workloads
<ujjain> very nice people, going out with the guys this evening
<SuperMatt> oh yeah? where are you going?
<popey> people could leverage the power of their phone / laptop / desktop / IoT device
<ujjain> Shoreditch probably, some guys going to Camden.
<SuperMatt> ah righty
<intrbiz_cr> popey: transputer like
<popey> yeah, just speculating
<SuperMatt> I like what you're saying there popey
<popey> we went from single computers to mainframes with terminals to PCs and then client/server and now cloud
<popey> it flip/flops every few years
<popey> and there's always some major driver for it, whether its security or performance..
<popey> or faster bandwidth, or better local display
<popey> who knows.
<SuperMatt> the real breakthrough is when I have wireless coverage everywhere, and no matter if I'm on my home wifi/work wifi/3G and I can use my phone as web server
<SuperMatt> oops, I meant to say that I have a static address
<daftykins> and be hacked on them all!
<SuperMatt> possibly, if you decide to run wordpress on it ;)
<daftykins> that doesn't seem like a given
<SuperMatt> I see too many insecure wordpress installs every day
<daftykins> too many don't update them i guess
<daftykins> is it mostly the core, or a plugin?
<bashrc_> wordpress does seem especially vulnerable
<SuperMatt> they don't update, install dodgy plugins, make the whole folder tree writable by www-data, etc
<daftykins> :)
<SuperMatt> what's worse is that a lot of businesses that rely on a web presence don't have any sysadmins
<SuperMatt> I know we sell fanatical support, but there needs to be someone in the company who can see the whole picture
<bashrc_> fanatical support?
<SuperMatt> yeah, so unlike AWS, we'll log in to the server and make changes
<SuperMatt> but some companies rely entirely on us as their sysadmins, which means that their business critical stuff is actions really slowly
<SuperMatt> it also means they don't have someone testing their backups once a week
<SuperMatt> so they get in to a lot of touble
<SuperMatt> *trouble
<bashrc_> outsourcing of sysadmin functions seems like a bad idea. You would be putting a lot of trust into some other person/organisation who may not care much
<SuperMatt> but they don't see it that way
<SuperMatt> I'm very happy to configure the backups using our backup system, but if I miss something which I couldn't have been aware of then they are going to be screwed
<SuperMatt> basically what we're here for is if your sysads can't figure something out, or want some help with our product set
<bashrc_> it's possible that bad systems admin could bring down a company
<SuperMatt> oh yes, for sure, but then you have legal recourse
<SuperMatt> but with us, you jump through so many contracts that it's unlikely you can blame us for much
<bashrc_> I guess so, but by then it's too late
<SuperMatt> yup!
<SuperMatt> basically, if you do ecommerce, get a damn sysad or just use etsy/ebay
<popey> right, wondering where to start my friday evening fixing this desktop
<daftykins> :D
<popey> rip all sata cables out and put one in.. and go through each controller port
<daftykins> any chance i can take a glance at that smartctl -a post-dd zero?
<daftykins> curious how it went
<popey> lost in the mists of time
<daftykins> well just a fresh one i mean :)
<daftykins> i remember what the original was like
<daftykins> 14 pending remap
<popey> that would mean plugging it back in and booting off usb
<popey> i am less interested in that specific disk
<popey> and more interesting in why _every_ disk that goes in this machine gives errors
<daftykins> ah ok
<daftykins> you don't have any seagates in there do you?
<daftykins> they're really annoying when it comes to SMART data, because they increment 'error' value fields even when they're totally fine
<popey> thats been one of the disks
<popey> but again, it's not just one disk
<daftykins> *nod* just thought i'd throw that gotcha in there
<popey> which is what's been flummuxing me
<daftykins> pull all disks and play with a single on on every port from a live session with a known-good cable perhaps?
<popey> "known good cable" :)
<Azelphur> Anyone have any recommendations/tips on building a RAID array with 3 drives? (Probably raid5)
<popey> 1. buy a hardware raid card, set it up and forget about it
<popey> 2. use md raid
<Azelphur> was planning on doing mdadm?
<popey> those are my options in order of preference
<daftykins> how much do you value your time, Azelphur? ;)
<daftykins> actually i can't talk, not touched mdadm... but i love my hardware RAID cards
<Azelphur> daftykins: *shrug* reasonably, why?
<Azelphur> my time is lost by waiting for a raid card in the post anyway, wanna get this going.
<daftykins> well it's about maintenance really at the end of the day
<Azelphur> why would it need maintenance? o.O
<daftykins> when the task of first setting one came up, i had the choice between getting a proper card and foreseeing spending lots of time buried in logs in messy situations trying to get something back together :)
<daftykins> 'cause disks die.
<Azelphur> heh
<Azelphur> so you just buy a new one and rebuild the array no?
<daftykins> https://carpenterbrut.bandcamp.com/track/le-perv-2 - ah so good
<daftykins> yeah, i think the management is just easier though with hardware cards
<popey> I used mdadm for years, and I know plenty of people who do
<popey> its fine
<daftykins> i managed to come away from an 8 disk RAID6 having 3 or 4 disks fail at once, with only ~640KB lost
<daftykins> no idea whereabouts that 640KB was relative to the data mind :D
<daftykins> it's amusing how much calmer and level headed you can be about those situations when the data isn't yours :D
<Azelphur> lol
<popey> right, daftykins http://paste.ubuntu.com/11779612/
<daftykins> is this a new one i've not seen before?
<Azelphur> So for these drives, what about partitions and such?
<popey> nope
<popey> its the original one http://paste.ubuntu.com/11747962/
<Azelphur> they aren't identical drives, but they are all 5TB
<daftykins> popey: oh wow, so it's cleaned up those iffy sectors and hasn't even increased the reallocated value on ID# 5
<popey> yeah
<popey> so I am inclined to think the disk is fine
<popey> was going to do a long test but that'll take hours, so running a short one now
<daftykins> looks pretty good, though i don't recall what your final position is with Amazon given its' iffy warranty status with WD
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11779628/ after running the short test
<popey> might install windows on this
<daftykins> probably not enough LBAs hit to cause ID #1 to increase further
<popey> if i can find the media
<daftykins> WD has a bootable ISO tool called DLG, with tests both short and long. it'd be interesting to see if it throws any further errors at the bottom or those values climbed again both on that system and another if available
<daftykins> probably not far off smartctl's mind
<daftykins> http://support.wdc.com/product/download.asp?groupid=619&sid=2&lang=en
<daftykins> ah no, not an ISO but a zip with a DOS exe
<zmoylan-pi> freedos \o/
<zmoylan-pi> the cobol of operating systems :-)
 * popey inserts windows dvd and does that
<daftykins> 86% humidity here today :S
 * daftykins gasps
<popey> only dvd I have is home premium
<popey> I bought an upgrade to whatever the better one was, ages ago
<popey> wonder if that's still valid somehow
<zmoylan-pi> not too bad here.  hot and icky but could be worse... [Dublin, DUB, Ireland] Condition: Partly Cloudy | Temp: 20C/68F/293K/527R | Humidity: 49% | Wind Speed 18mph/29kmph
<daftykins> it's sad that MS pulled their windows 7 ISOs from digital river, else i could've linked you to a nice fast ultimate to mooch!
<popey> woohoo, found the upgrade key
<popey> oh gawd
<popey> i forgot how painful windows installing is
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> very keen for 10, nice fresh start... but there'll no doubt be tonnes of release day patches XD
<MartijnVdS> popey: you're doing it as well?
<MartijnVdS> I'm installing Win10 on an older laptop (win7 era but still)
<popey> heh
<daftykins> it's lighter than 7 so it should do well as long as the spec is decent
<daftykins> on the RAM and disk front
<MartijnVdS> at the same time, I'm ordering an XPS13 :)
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: 256G SSD, 8G RAM, i3 from '09
<daftykins> oh nice, is that first gen i3?
<MartijnVdS> second I think
<daftykins> ah so sandybridge
<daftykins> vewy gewd
<MartijnVdS> nope Westmere
<MartijnVdS> so first gen
<daftykins> ah har
<daftykins> probably quite useful still :)
<MartijnVdS> (intel ironlake graphics too; expecting lag)
<daftykins> SSDs seem to polish up so much
<daftykins> come to think of it i should investigate a classic theme on 10!
<MartijnVdS> ooh it's doing its firstboot thing now
<MartijnVdS> "Getting ready"
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: only another 6 hours then
<ball> So... what's Unity all about?
<daftykins> the desktop environment?
<ball> Is the intention to make it work on desktops, tablets and phones?
<ball> daftykins: Yes.
<davmor2> ball: yes
<ball> We've been trying Ubuntu for a few months on my daughter's desktop PC.
<daftykins> it's a very polarising DE that's for sure - Marmite experience :)
<ball> It's better than I remember but I have some reservations about the desktop U.I.
<davmor2> ball: there is unity7 in the desktop image currently this is the basis for unity8 which is planned to be the version that runs on phone/tablets/desktops/tv etc
<popey> \o/ anytime upgrade worked
<ball> brb
<popey> I forgot that Windows has to be installed on a <2TB partition
<popey> that's annoying
<daftykins> if you're legacy booting?
<davmor2> popey: only the 32bit version right ;)
<popey> its not an efi system
<popey> and this is 64-bit
<daftykins> ah ok
<popey> its a bit ye olde
<daftykins> :D i'm on my core 2 quad desktop with DDR2, i know it :>
<daftykins> my sandybridge i5 laptop does EFI but i'm getting so tired of the cheap TN panel on that thing
<daftykins> horrid picture
<popey> oh, apparently I bought this in 2011
<popey> so not _that_ old
<daftykins> :D
<popey> Item: Zoostorm Advanced Media PC, Core i7-2600 3.4GHz, 8GB RAM, 1TB HDD, DVDRW, Windows 7 Professional
<daftykins> hmm super budget edition
<daftykins> http://www.amazon.co.uk/H61M-F-Motherboard-Intel-S-ATA-Express/dp/B00H2GQQQM/ Â£34.48 direct from amazon themselves :O
<daftykins> 2 RAM slots and 4 SATA though :(
<daftykins> not that i mean to rush ahead and assume the worst...
<diddledan> yawn
<diddledan> little nap
<daftykins> :)
<diddledan> awake again now
<daftykins> evening sir
<diddledan> allo
 * directhex is back on SteamOS dev
<foobarry> lots of traffic here tonight
<diddledan> directhex: v2?
<directhex> diddledan: indeed
<directhex> diddledan: have now run into 2 blocking bugs, so looks like a weekend on the xbox :p
<daftykins> xbox \o/
<diddledan> hehe
<daftykins> i just had a text about GTA 5 heisting
<daftykins> but arranging 4 friends online at the same time, tough
<popey> arranging four married with kids friends online is easy
<popey> friday night, okay!
<diddledan> :-)
<diddledan> friday night is a great time to chillout. none of this clubbing nonsense
<popey> also a great time to install windowzzzzzzzzzzz
<popey> so far, windows, upgrade, windows update, chrome, mse..
<popey> oh, and ethernet driver on a usb stick because it didn't come with one
<daftykins> :>
<directhex> popey: i find it lultastic than windows 10 does not support my gamer network chip out of the box, but older linux kernels do
<directhex> so i had to usb-stick it too
<popey> right, what's next, steam I guess :)
<directhex> vlc!
<daftykins> ugh VLC :P
<popey> "Install Steam Now"
<popey> "Free 1.5MB download"]
<popey> lulz
<popey> 1TB later...
<daftykins> too right
<popey> is it possible to resize up the windows boot disk from 2TB post install?
<daftykins> popey: throw this sucker up in the background and see if those SMART error IDs increment as things go on? http://crystalmark.info/redirect.php?product=CrystalDiskInfo
<daftykins> yep
<directhex> popey: yes, you can resize down on modern windows
<daftykins> run diskmgmt.msc then right click the partition and shrink
<popey> no, up, not down
<daftykins> er or extend too
<daftykins> :>
<popey> yay
<directhex> popey: why is it 2?
<popey> will do that later
<popey> windows 7 install default
<popey> AIUI
<directhex> you can't have a windows boot volume >2T on BIOS
<popey> bummer
<popey> so I will always have to have a 2TB C: and 1.9TB D:?
<popey> sadface
<directhex> MBR cannot exceed 2T for a drive
<daftykins> thing is on a mechanical you want to keep Windows separate from Games anywho
<diddledan> efi
<daftykins> so i'd make C: 100GB tops then have D: as everything else?
<daftykins> will keep Windows faster by keeping the OS data segregated too
<directhex> MBR has a 2T upper size limit
<popey> i ran out of space with 120GB C:
<daftykins> D:
<popey> ok, will resize c down and d up
<popey> thanks chaps
<directhex> if you have a >2T drive, and install windows to it in BIOS mode, you cannot use the space beyond the 2T barrier
<directhex> you don't get to have multiple 2T partitions on the same drive
<directhex> 2T is your lot.
<directhex> windows only supports MBR boot, on BIOS (linux can boot from GPT on BIOS, windows cannot)
<daftykins> *tips hat*
<daftykins> think of the youngsters growing up now that won't have to learn or deal with all this fun ;)
<directhex> BIOS Windows can use GPT drives, but not boot from them
<popey> can the second part be bigger than 2TB?
<directhex> so you need e.g. an SSD for windows to boot from, then can use the full capacity of a >2T drive
<popey> oh, _every_ part has to be <2TB?
<popey> thats what I did have previously.
<directhex> popey: there is no second part. if you BIOS-install, you  have a DRIVE limit of 2T
<popey> wat
<directhex> MBR cannot address numbers >2T
<directhex> windows doesn't support any kind of hybrid partition table
<popey> well balls
<popey> that was a waste of time then
<directhex> if you want to boot from a >2T drive, you need EFI boot
<directhex> (or linux)
<popey> hmm, i have a spare 64GB SSD
<popey> wonder if that'll be big enough?
<directhex> juuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuust about
<popey> i can always move it to another one later
<daftykins> i wouldn't recommend it :(
<daftykins> true, that
<daftykins> <3 clonezilla
<popey> ooh, a 115GB one here
<popey> that's more breathing room
<directhex> getting better!
<diddledan> https://channel9.msdn.com/Blogs/Seth-Juarez/Deploying-an-F-Web-Application-with-Suave <-- why do I know the name tomas petricek?
<popey> time to do the windows 7 install dance again! :D
<diddledan> \o/
<popey> or... dd it over :)
<daftykins> naaah just resize it down and clone it over
<popey> yeah
<popey> thats way more fun
<daftykins> \o/
<popey> this shrink dialog makes no sense
<daftykins> pretty confusingly worded, ja
<daftykins> essentially you're keying in a value to deduct iirc
<popey> screw this, I'm using gparted
<popey> this is utter nonsense
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> wfm
<popey> I need to boot to lunix anyway to do the copy
<daftykins> i prefer clonezilla since it can skip the empty parts
<daftykins> gotta minimise them writes to the SSDs
<popey> so does gparted
<daftykins> oh it has cloning in?
<popey> yeah
<daftykins> did not know :O
<popey> copy/paste
 * popey resizificates from 2TB to 76GB
<popey> \o/ success
<daftykins> huzzah!
<popey> \o/ chkdsk
<popey> those were simpler times
<daftykins> time to buy another replacement screen for this second S3 :D
<popey> \o/ windows still boots, ok, time to move it
<popey> \o/ I can haz windows on ssd
<popey> \o/ I can haz 4TB GPT disk
<MartijnVdS> popey: 4TB SSD?!
<popey> heh, i wish
<popey> one day
<ball> Well, I just installed Xubuntu on a desktop at work.
<zmoylan-pi> and when there's a 4tb ssd the os will take 2-3tb of it :-)
<directhex> popey: all sorted? :)
<popey> directhex: yes, happy days. Thanks chaps!
<popey> steam -> gta5, while that downloads, grab latest nvidia driver, minecraft, etc :)
<diddledan> I think I've discovered the source of my win10 BSODs
<ball> diddledan: Driver issue?
<diddledan> ball: possibly
<diddledan> ball: it seems related to having my external monitor connected
<ball> diddledan: Does that work well when you're running Ubuntu?
<diddledan> I've not got ubuntu on here
<ball> How about if you boot it from a live DVD?
<diddledan> I'd need to run it for over a day of normal use to ensure it's working - the bsods are random
<ball> Ah, that's inconvenient.
<diddledan> yeah
<ball> Is it a laptop?
<diddledan> surface pro 3
<diddledan> intel gfx
<ball> Oh! Are you using a dock or adaptor cable?
<diddledan> I've tried both
<ball> Have you tried upgrading the video driver?
<diddledan> or rather, I've tried the same adapter (microsoft's official dp2hdmi thingy) in the dock display port and also in the inbuilt display port with the dock disconnected entirely - both ways still bsod
 * ball nods
<ball> Might be worth asking in ##windows.
<diddledan> I tried using the intel driver from intel.com but it says that I need to use windows update-releases
<ball> Do you have tech support from Microsoft?
<diddledan> as in updates from windows update
<ball> (I don't know what their equivalent of AppleCare would be)
<diddledan> it's still in warranty but as it's win10 (pre-release) I've been providing feedback via the insider program
<ball> Ah, that might be your issue then.
<diddledan> I'm wondering if the bsod memory dumps are automatically shipped to microsoft devs
<ball> Any way to roll back to 8.1?
<diddledan> if they are then good
<diddledan> yeah reinstalling 8.1 is easy
<diddledan> but I want to ensure that it gets fixed rather than mask it by running 8.1.
<diddledan> it's a shame the insider program doesn't have direct-contact for blocking issues
<ball> That's fair enough but I'm wondering whether it's a hardware issue, in which case it might be in 8.1 too or just a pre-release bug.
<diddledan> ok, I've just submitted a detailed analysis to the windows-feedback app
<diddledan> it includes everything I've tried so-far and the outcomes
 * daftykins glances
 * diddledan pokes daftykins 
<daftykins> just reading up
<daftykins> diddledan: do you have much on there that'd be a hassle to throw on? i guess it's your daily driver eh? getting a bit late now but a clean install of the latest build ISO could've been interesting
<ball> I have to go, anyway.
<Azelphur> Things that take long: Moving 3TB of TV shows.
<diddledan> ouch
<Azelphur> (Onto a RAID array that is in the process of rebuilding)
<diddledan> more ouch
<Azelphur> yea
<Azelphur> the array says it's gonna take 41 days to rebuild haha
<daftykins> XD
<diddledan> I like my ZFS freenas system
<daftykins> speaking of which i should get the automated emails re: a couple of RAIDs in 30 mins
<daftykins> really need to move that to another day, discovering someones RAID has gone funky and being able to do exactly nothing until Monday preys on my mind greatly
<diddledan> \o/
<Azelphur> diddledan: I am building something kinda cool, I found a nice HP Microserver-like case that takes 10 3.5" + 2 2.5", got an i3 4370 and 16GB RAM.
<diddledan> wow
<Azelphur> It'll run Emby, Sonarr, CouchPotato, Monit, ownCloud, etc.
<diddledan> that's a beast of disk-mounts
<Azelphur> on a 3x5TB array
<diddledan> one thing I really don't like about ZFS is it's inability to mutate an array
<diddledan> i.e. once you've built a RAIDZ1 with 4 disks you can't add another disk later-on without destroying the array
<daftykins> i think you don't tend to ever have need to do that if you plan well?
<Azelphur> amusingly I designed my raid array with expansion in mind.
<Azelphur> that's why I have 10 bays and 3 drives, as I run outta space I'll buy more drives.
<diddledan> Azelphur: yeah I'd like to be able to do that
<Azelphur> http://www.fractal-design.com/media/7b64ee99-0451-40da-9dc4-cca9aede436a more drive bays than you can shake a stick at :P
<diddledan> wow
 * diddledan want
<diddledan> is it full atx?
<Azelphur> micro
<diddledan> aah
<Azelphur> diddledan: you can go pretty far with it, though http://www.overclockers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=149038&stc=1&d=1409644444
<diddledan> jeebers
<Azelphur> but yea, the i3 will cope with media transcoding, access to my media library on any device, streamed, while mobile, is awesome :P
<diddledan> http://www.inquisitr.com/2201984/miux-by-microsoft-why-windows-10-maker-may-release-its-own-linux-os-distro-soon/
 * daftykins checks the calendar
<diddledan> yeah it's a repost of an april fool
<diddledan> there's a link in there to: http://itsfoss.com/microsoft-announces-linux-os/
<diddledan> note the date
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> was just eating at the desk so couldn't apply brain
<daftykins> assuming it's even present this eve...
<diddledan> but the inquisitr seems to have completely missed the joke and posted their discovery today
<popey> hah, just tried to run agame from steam, it spawns the dx9 installer - fair enough - which then spins through downloading components from 2005, 2006, 2007 etc
<diddledan> 200GB MicroSD?!
<popey> why can't it just you know, download the latest one
<diddledan> sandisk..
<Azelphur> Question, if I'm rebuilding a RAID array and also want to copy lots of data onto the array, which is faster? Both at the same time, or wait for one to complete then do the other?
<popey> benchmark it and find out
<Azelphur> um, well in order to do that I'd need to pick one or the other, and by then I'd already have done it and not care
<popey> exactly my point
<popey> this is the conundorum everyone has
<daftykins> Azelphur: i always let operations complete prior to dealing with data
<Azelphur> I see
<daftykins> after all, if something tripped up a build/rebuild/verify - putting data on is pointless :)
<popey> i lob data at it while it's syncing and walk away
<diddledan> Azelphur: I would expect both processes to be linear writes but doing both together will be exponentially slow due to the writes now being random
<Azelphur> diddledan: yea that was my thinking
<diddledan> note, IANAL
<diddledan> http://www.stuff.tv/news/load-now-you-can-grab-sandisks-200gb-microsd-card
<daftykins> so _that_ is why devices keep saying they support 200GB
<diddledan> that's hooge
<diddledan> it's bigger than my inbuilt ssd
<daftykins> diddledan: how much data do you think you can fit in your mouth?
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> daftykins: I swallow
<diddledan> twitter is awash with everyone posting LGBTQ Pride logos and flags
<daftykins> i didn't even know what was going on
<diddledan> apparently it's legal to be gay in america now
<daftykins> isn't freedom wonderful?
<diddledan> http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/jun/18/google-image-recognition-neural-network-androids-dream-electric-sheep
<diddledan> this is beautiful: http://i.guim.co.uk/static/w-1920/h--/q-95/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2015/6/18/1434625766484/be8093f0-3cfd-4aa0-a7cb-7cba9abeeb2f-2060x1236.jpeg
#ubuntu-uk 2015-06-27
<mapps> morn
<MartijnVdS> morning
<mapps> :)
<MartijnVdS> I actually ordered the i7/512GB XPS13
<MartijnVdS> *ouch my wallet*
<mapps> hopefully can sleep easier this am
<mapps> nice
<mapps> :D
<mapps> dell? xps is dell so must be
<MartijnVdS> yeah
<MartijnVdS> it's the "Ubuntu laptop" (developer edition)
<mapps> aha
<mapps> prob too much for me
<mapps> i buy cheapo laptops:)
<MartijnVdS> they have a â¬250 Ubuntu laptop too ;)
<mapps> ;D
<nucc1> Greetings, slumbering citizens of the empire. Pray tell, what tool might one use to move from a small SSD to a big SSD?
<nucc1> oh well, good old dd
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi knightwise
<knightwise> how are you dude :)
<brobostigon> not bad, date night with my gf last night, a nice restaurant and drinks, overall pretty good. and you?
<knightwise> going camping for the weekend (hope the weather holds)
<knightwise> watching this cool tv show Mr Robot
<brobostigon> :)
<knightwise> great show for geeks like us
 * brobostigon googles
<knightwise> I suggest you piratebays :p
<knightwise> so great to hear a cover from Jaques Brell's "ne me quitte pass" in that episode.
<popey> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning popey
<knightwise> hey popey brobostigon
<brobostigon> hello again knightwise
<bashrc_> morning
<diddledan> afternoon
<daftykins> o/
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/s8nzxu9e81o0whm/IMG_20150627_155105.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> =]
<mapps> yello
<penguin42> hey
<diddledan> evening
<penguin42> has anyone used the virginmedia wifi thing on the tube, how does it know you're one of the VM customers so it's free?
<foobarry> enter your username password i think
<foobarry> or register your phone from your account
<foobarry> sorry just guessing cos i 'm not a customer , it didn't work for me
<penguin42> well I'm logged into their normal web account and I can't see anything there about registering for it; and when I'm on my day out in London I'm not sure what I'll need - oh well, I'll find out
<foobarry> https://tfl.gov.uk/campaign/station-wifi
<foobarry> http://my.virginmedia.com/wifi/virgin-media-customers.html
<penguin42> foobarry: Well found
<penguin42> foobarry: Somewhat scary entering an account password for something like that into a portal on wifi
<foobarry> i don't have any of those providers
<foobarry> giffgaff :(
<penguin42> actually, I doubt I'll do much on the tube actually, it's a business trip so I'll probably mainly be in annoying meetings all day
<penguin42> at least that will have wifi and my hotel is supposed to as well
<foobarry> ugh gotta do the washing up before bed
<penguin42> buy a dishwasher
<foobarry> i have one
<foobarry> but its the slow cooker and george foreman grillotron
<foobarry> needs some elbow grease
<pi_> Mits Rpi2
#ubuntu-uk 2015-06-28
<mapps> hm
<mapps> ;]
<WeddingSinger> Uber Good Mrngen - from Holland !#
<WeddingSinger> **good morning slackers !
<mapps> morning
<mapps> on holiday?
<WeddingSinger> mapps: Yes - a Beach Wedding in Holland  - it was yesterday - the best wedding I've ever been to.
<mapps> cool
 * WeddingSinger doesn't even 'ave a hang-over as Dutch beer is so light (in alcohol).
<mapps> where abouts in Holland
<mapps> I didnt recognise your nick from here before?
<mapps> it was Heineken almost everywhere i went
<mapps> had a few amstels
<mapps> ;]
<WeddingSinger> mapps: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/52.2446/4.4361
<mapps> Holland seemed expensive though..like not especially cheap at least
<mapps> pesky euro
<WeddingSinger> Mumsie and dadsie paid for everything - & there was a freeBar !!!!!
<mapps> aha
<mapps> far from amsterdam
<mapps> whats your normal nick in here?!
<WeddingSinger> "Mumsie" .... remind me of the chrystal maze programme.
<WeddingSinger> mapps: Well there was talk afew years ago that I used the /nick Redtape.
<mapps> aha
<mapps> ;]
<mapps> you come in here often?
<WeddingSinger> but I've grown since those days and is/are less childish
<WeddingSinger> Often ? yes .. this is my 10,000 confession, governor.
<mapps> ;]
<WeddingSinger> I have liked some of the posts on reddit recently 'bout *buntu ..
<WeddingSinger> I try to find one or two.
<mapps> ;D
<mapps> how long you in holland for
<WeddingSinger> last day today - go back to blighty on 3pm ferry from Hook of Holland to Harwich.
<WeddingSinger> Is popey cat hooked up to #ubuntu-uk/IRC yet ?
<mapps> heh no
<mapps> hm didnt know you could go via ferry
<WeddingSinger> I want to give him a virtual huggsie - 'cos I'm feeling fantastico.
<mapps> i just went man -> amx;]
<mapps> so you didnt see the redlight
<mapps> its just amusing to me..i dont partake
<WeddingSinger> By Ferry ? - Yes 6 hours from Harwich or 11 hours from Hull .. either way -It's a boat party even before you arrive.
<mapps> back in a bit..i work nights..so sleep tim
<WeddingSinger> mapps, Do you have any nephews ?
<mapps> nah
 * WeddingSinger nephew is called Jules - because he is the crown Joules of the family.
<WeddingSinger> **Jewles.
<mapps> ;]
<WeddingSinger> he's fastinated with Thomas the tank at the moment .. I keep telling him it's all real.
<WeddingSinger> poor kid .. having a Dutch Uncle like me :)
<WeddingSinger> Man .. there's only so much Take That requests the DJ could handle last night - with all the gals from Manchester.
<mapps> sleep time for me mate;D catch ya later
<mapps> should be some waking up soon
<WeddingSinger> fair enough
<WeddingSinger> nice to chat with you.
<mapps> and you;d surprised zmoylan-pi isnt around;)
<WeddingSinger> zmoylan-pi  .. is that like Raspbian ?
 * WeddingSinger shares out wedding cake to everyone in the chatroom.
<mapps> ;]
 * WeddingSinger gives popey's cat an extra hug - been a terrific holiday : http://chquotes.synthasite.com/resources/calvinhobbeshug.jpg
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<rcheesley> Hi folks, not sure if you're aware but noticed in passing on the Ubuntu UK homepage that one of the syndicated blogs seems to have malicious content: http://loco.ubuntu.com/planet/697-5-minute-chocolate-cake-in-a-mug/
<penguin42> AlanBell might know
<rcheesley> just thought I'd mention it ;)
<penguin42> indeed
<rcheesley> Hello btw, I'm based in Ipswich and have been using Kubuntu for probably about 5 years now :)
<penguin42> welcome
<daftykins> spacex :(
<zmoylan-pi> the barge abides...
<penguin42> daftykins: Yeh :-(
<StevenR> daftykins: why :( ?
 * StevenR tried to watch the launch but the internet wouldn't play nicely
<penguin42> StevenR: Yeh I had the same problem, only got about 10seconds at a time, but if I switched res it would work
<penguin42> StevenR: It blew up
<penguin42> StevenR: Hmm, you're also on VM - I wonder if it's just VM people?
 * penguin42 wonders wth sgyl is
<StevenR> aww. That's sucky. Space is hard though.
<StevenR> penguin42: Scotland. :)
<penguin42> StevenR: Ah, I've got reasonably good at guessing the English ones
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> worked fine here on the 720p setting
<penguin42> hmm so maybe it is a VM thing
<daftykins> you folks use their DNS?
<penguin42> yeh
<penguin42> at least I think I do
<penguin42> StevenR: Posted to their forum (for waht it's worth)
<StevenR> daftykins: google DNS from memory (8.8.8.8/8.8.4.4)
<daftykins> i've noticed some media suffers when i use google DNS i think
<daftykins> bit different for me given the islands links, but sometimes youtube would direct me to a really daft choice of CDN locations
<penguin42> I'd be interested to know how to debug CDN choices
<daftykins> think i'm using the wrong terms really
<daftykins> i think i looked at an IP that traffic was coming from for a youtube vid, then traced where that was
<daftykins> and my route to it was really daft, sort of going around a few countries in Europe
<daftykins> like a bit of a circular route
<daftykins> throughput was really low too, making the video unplayable
<self-conscience> hi
<super-ego> o/
<self-conscience> and ego?
<self-conscience> we have alredy lost him?
<daftykins> what?
<penguin42> popey/AlanBell: (12:48:33) rcheesley: Hi folks, not sure if you're aware but noticed in passing on the Ubuntu UK homepage that one of the syndicated blogs seems to have malicious content: http://loco.ubuntu.com/planet/697-5-minute-chocolate-cake-in-a-mug/
<ali1234> oh dear :(
<rcheesley> yeah, happened to notice it when I found the UK group indirectly via the forums
<penguin42> anyway, I'm about to disappear, if you see AlanBell online let him know he shouldn't be hiding dodgy stuff in his chocolate cakes
<rcheesley> Hehe
<daftykins> perhaps it's a vague way of saying 'spam' is an ingredient 0o
<zmoylan-pi> spam chocolate cake.... mmmmmm
#ubuntu-uk 2016-06-27
<mappps> hi all
<mappps> so brexit eh
<mappps> who cares
<ali1234> not me
<mappps> nor me;D people here are worried, oh no spain migh close the border..nah..12,000 people work here
<mappps> they might make queues..sure
<Myrtti> I wonder if I need to continue staying in my pillow fort
<zmoylan-pi> did you bring supplies into the fort to last a few days?
<Myrtti> I wish I had, should've locked myself in without internet
<zmoylan-pi> do you have a loyal minion who can be summoned to get supplies sent in?
<Myrtti> look, I appreciate the wish and need of Britons to roll sleeves up and start working on what from now, but I hope and wish people remember that there are going to be people that will have to do all that AND possibly in a place that doesn't feel quite so safe, welcoming and home anymore.
<Myrtti> zmoylan-pi: yeah, to some degree
<zmoylan-pi> far right seem to have been on the streets across all of europe over the weekend.... even 20 or so muppets in dublin allegedly
<Myrtti> I live in East Anglia close to those notes left through the Polish people's mail boxes. I've known the area isn't the most welcoming to any immigrants since first visiting here in election season, but it still came as a shock.
<zmoylan-pi> fingers crossed things settle down soon... :-(
<MooDoo> morning al
<davmor2> Morning all
<SuperMatt> good morning, leaderless britain
<TwistedLucidity> Leaderless, rudderless; to the lifeboats! Oh wait, we sold those last year...
<MooDoo> ok ok keep the politics out of here today, I've had enough of  it
<Myrtti> MooDoo: thanks. I wes too polite to ask
<Myrtti> and sorry I perpetuated it
<MooDoo> Myrtti: :)
<davmor2> Politics, politics, politics, cat's doing stupid things, politics well that's enough facebook today then
<MooDoo> morning davmor2 :)
 * bashrc has mostly avoided Facebook for that reason
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Monday, and happy Industrial Workers Of The World Day! ð
<MooDoo> morning JamesTait brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> :)
<brobostigon> :)
<JamesTait> ð  MooDoo brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning JamesTait
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cShYbLkhBc
<BigRedS> bashrc: try Fluff Busting Purity; I've filtered out *most* of the politics from mine
<BigRedS> that said, there's not really terribly much left...
<davmor2> JamesTait: I think that covers us right?
<JamesTait> davmor2, it's cheeky, but yes. âº
<iFunction> Hi
<diddledan> morning
<velus> hey all, does ubuntu support finger print login?
<Myrtti> depends on the device, I've heard rumours that there might be a device that works, but they were very distant and faint rumours
<Myrtti> well, "works" in some value of working
<ali1234> there is at least one laptop which is supposedly ubuntu certified which contains a fingerprint reader, however i was never able to get a straight answer on whether or not it works
<ali1234> also that was several years ago
<diddledan> daftykins: just had a looksee to determine if I can flash that amd gfx card I've borked. I don't have enough power connectors to power it in addition to my normal gfx
<diddledan> I've only got two gfx power headers, where one is used for my nvidia and the amd requires two
<diddledan> I'll have to take some time to pull-out my nvidia and put a cheapy passive card in that I've got to try the actual flash
<diddledan> interesting. redhat just announced they're supporting openjdk on windows now
<diddledan> they're doing "devnation" keynote right now: https://youtu.be/nxnIpgHQ-Gw
<ali1234> is there a way to make the ubuntu installer automatically partition a blank drive without creating swap?
<popey> ali1234: you could pass it a pre-seed which specifies a different disk format
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopCDOptions
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> ythat would mean writing my own preseed?
<ali1234> i could also just delete the swap file and then resize the root partition
<popey> you could fiddle the existing one
<popey> the disk layout bit isn't hard
<ali1234> where can i find it?
<ali1234> and how do i get my modified one onto the installer?
<ali1234> put it on a webserver and then pass the url at the boot prompt?
<popey> i think so
<popey> not tried for a while
<ali1234> i ordered a new computer with 32GB... i don't really want to use 20% of my SSD for swap...
<popey> use manual partitioning?
<ali1234> i don't know how any more
<ali1234> new computer is EFI
<davmor2> ali1234: you could use kickstart
<ali1234> using a preseed doesn't appear to help
<ali1234> it offers the same choices as the menus, and i'd have to define the partitions i want manually
<velusuni> hey all
<popey> hello
<davmor2> ali1234: well yes you would have to do that, but it could then be automated at least
<davmor2> velusuni: hello
<ali1234> as i said, i don't know how to manually partition. just want exactly what the installer would give me, except without a swap partition
<ali1234> i only need to do this once
<davmor2> ali1234: no then, why do you want to drop swap
<ali1234> because i will have 32GB of RAM
<davmor2> ali1234: yes and?
<popey> yeah, manually partitioning step
<ali1234> and the installer will therefore create a 32GB swap partition on my SSD, wasting a large percentage of it
<popey> personally, I'd go through the installer, let it make swap then delete it afterwards and expand root
<ali1234> yeah, i think that is what i am going to have to do
<popey> that way you get all the efi stuff setup correctly
<popey> dirty, but works
<davmor2> ali1234: what popey said
<ali1234> not even that dirty... expanding is trivial
<popey> true
<ali1234> shrinking is the tricky one
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi intrbiz
<intrbiz> SebthreeBQM10HD: Hi
<ali1234> damn. is hould have put some money on england losing 2-1 to iceland. i totally called that
<daftykins> diddledan: or pick up a molex adapter
<popey> SebthreeBQM10HD: seen https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/nexdock-the-world-s-most-affordable-laptop--2#/updates ?
<popey> maybe you won't be getting your nexdock any time soon, what with their factory burning down
<zmoylan-pi> saves time on the recall of a lot of dangerous batteries? :-P
<daftykins> saves time faking a load of delays too ;)
<zmoylan-pi> it's a nice idea, i'd like a cheap keyboard and screen to chuck a rasp pi into.  the pi-top is nice but i could get a full laptop for that money
<Ajath> how can i join your team ?
<daftykins> wat
<Ajath> i like ubuntu
<Ajath> i need ubuntu free cd's
<daftykins> make them
<Ajath> how can i get shipping to my country
<daftykins> this is -uk, you probably want a support channel or perhaps #ubuntu-discuss
<Ajath> yes
<Ajath> how can i support ?
<Ajath> to ubuntu
<daftykins> no tht's not what i meant
<Ajath> k
<Ajath> i like ubuntu community
<daftykins> go to #ubuntu for the main support channel
<Ajath> so i want ubuntu accessories
<Ajath> T-shirts and caps anythink
<daftykins> you don't need things to get started
<Ajath> aha
<Ajath> k
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, no, but   just saw your messages, so just gone on that
<Ajath> lol
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, that's ashame, was hoping to get it in the next few weeks or so in time for next months LUG
<SebthreeBQM10HD> looks like tht probably won't be the case now
<SebthreeBQM10HD> but hey ast leaset
<SebthreeBQM10HD> my chip and the stuff with the chip is on it's way :d
<SebthreeBQM10HD> pocket chip, and yeah, whatever that was some Debian thing
<Ajath> mmm
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, thanks for informing me of the bad news though
<SebthreeBQM10HD> velus hi
<SebthreeBQM10HD> velusuni hi
#ubuntu-uk 2016-06-28
<diddledan> birds are noisy
<zmoylan-1i> they need quieter keyboards for their tweeting
<mapps> hi all
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning
<popey> Morning!
<MooDoo> :)
<knightwise> morning peeps
<MooDoo> you ok knightwise
<popey> welp. https://dwq4do82y8xi7.cloudfront.net/dailyfx/widgetembed/?symbol=FX%3AGBPUSD&interval=M&hidesidetoolbar=0&symboledit=1&toolbarbg=f4f7f9&studies=&hideideas=1&theme=White&timezone=exchange&studies_overrides=%7B%7D&overrides=%7B%7D&enabled_features=%5B%5D&disabled_features=%5B%5D&locale=en&utmsource=www.dailyfx.com&utmmedium=www.dailyfx.com/gbp-usd
<MooDoo> popey: I went to new york nov 2007, but different back then
<SuperMatt> popey: don't worry, boris promised he'd apologise if the economy collapsed. Just like he promised all those other things
<popey> hehe
<TwistedLucidity> !politics
<lubotu3> Please take political discussion to ##politics-uk. Thank you!
<TwistedLucidity> :-P
<TwistedLucidity> popey: That's going to hit my employer hard, most of or works is in North America/Canada
<TwistedLucidity> "...of our work..."
<diplo> Guys, having loads of issues with our broadband at work, keeps disconnecting... up until recently we've not had a phone plugged in ( still the same issues ) but when it disconnects if we go down and pick the phone up it connects back to the net
<diplo> Is this sounding like a failing filter or more like an ISP/Connection issue?
<SuperMatt> Is this the 90s?
<SuperMatt> but it sounds like the filter
<TwistedLucidity> Unplug the phone and see if the problem goes away>
<diplo> Its only just been plugged in TwistedLucidity
<diplo> SuperMatt: bloomin feels like it
<diplo> We've already ordered a filter from Amazon, no one stocks one round here close by
<diplo> Brand new router too as the ISP was blaming that
<TwistedLucidity> Oh righty. Sorry, thought the problems only started *after* the phone when in. Dunno then. Call the telephone provider and ask for a line check?
<diplo> Yeah they reckon it's something internal :P so ticking off ALL boxes before we have someone out
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> morning bro
<knightwise> brobostigon:
<brobostigon> morning knightwise
<knightwise> how are you doing dude
<brobostigon> not bad, and you?
<knightwise> doin ok :) kinda tired of all of this brexit news.
<Myrtti> just the news? that's good
<knightwise> :)
<knightwise> AND the whole soccer news
 * knightwise is getting fedd up with mainstream media alltoghether.
 * popey has BBC Parliament on in the background
<knightwise> i think i'm turning into a digitally overconnected hermit
<popey> quite fun hearing the various European council members throwing rocks
<knightwise> I am reminded of George carlins quote : never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups
<popey> The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.
<popey> -- Winston Churchill
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Tuesday and happy International Body Piercing Day! ð
<knightwise> popey: true.
<brobostigon> knightwise: :)
<TwistedLucidity> Democracy is the worst form of government, apart from all the others (also Winston Churchill IIRC)
<knightwise> I think most countries these days are in a media-ocracy
<knightwise> where public perception (and direction of votes) is governed by he who controls the media.
<TwistedLucidity> knightwise: I'd say a demogaogic plutocracy.
<popey> I love that european parliament people call Nigel Farage "Mister Farridge"
<TwistedLucidity> When did they call him that? He was never there!
<MooDoo> TwistedLucidity: he's there at the meeting this morning
<TwistedLucidity> That's (almost) a first
<davmor2> JamesTait: this is cheekier than normal https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylGkm2EHHvE
<JamesTait> davmor2, next in the playlist is Don't Fear the Reaper.  Letting it play on....
<JamesTait> Oh, and All Along the Watchtower!
 * JamesTait hugs davmor2 for kicking this off.
<davmor2> JamesTait: you're welcome
<knightwise>  JamesTait that song reminds me of "Battlestar Galactica"
<davmor2> knightwise: Which?
 * JamesTait was wondering the same.
<knightwise> the new series
<knightwise> all along the watchtower is used in the last season as a major item in the plot
<knightwise> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1__dINxiXU
<knightwise> (nospoilers)
<TwistedLucidity> Season 5 didn't happen. IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!
<TwistedLucidity> I quite like the new theme for BSG. Such a shame the series went off the rails
<davmor2> knightwise: that is the most awful version of that song I think I have ever heard
<davmor2> knightwise: also that really isn't battlestar galatica this is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHp9oZPqs8E :)  which is possibly what threw me and JamesTait
<MooDoo> :)
<knightwise> davmor2: agree  I love the 80's soundtrack too
<knightwise> but the reboot was actually very nice
<davmor2> knightwise: here's some soap, here's some water, go wash your mouth out with it till you realise that few reboots are as good as the original, they would of been better off calling it something completely different ;)
<knightwise> davmor2: thats harsh ! BSG-reboot (or re-imagining) was quite entertaining.
<knightwise> Or am I to assume that you file Battelstar Galactica 1980 under "Good Tv"
<foobarry> waiting to be the 4M signature on that petition
<davmor2> knightwise: it was great, it just wasn't battlestar galatica :)  they could of called it battlestar crypton and it just been another ship escape and I would of been happy :)
<knightwise> davmor2: true.  That being said the "2000 reboo" would also have worked if they did the entire series around teh pegassus
<davmor2> knightwise: indeed
<knightwise> i kinda hated bsg1980. it was too cheezy and I HATED that docter whatshisname kid
<knightwise> ps : there IS a movie about the story of the pegassus in "RAZOR"
<daftykins> YAY https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caps_lock#International_Caps_Lock_Day
<davmor2> daftykins: SHUT UP
<daftykins> ;_;
<davmor2> daftykins: here have a cookie
<daftykins> YAY!
<bittin> THATS TODAY I BETTER PRESS THE CAPS LOCK KEY THEN
<davmor2> daftykins: you see what you started
<daftykins> 8D
<daftykins> it's better than certain political topics *cough*
<daftykins> ooh-err digitalocean's site doesn't list the new 3.13.0-91 kernel yet
<TwistedLucidity> In other key realted news, I finallyfixedmyspacebar
<davmor2> daftykins: certain political topics, I just thought Topics were tasty chocolate bars with lots of nuts maybe I'm wrong
<daftykins> mmm if only they were cheaper
<TwistedLucidity> Loads of nuts in politics too
<davmor2> daftykins: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mars-Topic-Chocolate-Bars-Full/dp/B009AZIN96 see I'm right
<daftykins> 76p each!
 * daftykins does a Ken Bruce
<daftykins> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Topic-47-Bar-Pack-36/dp/B003TCQCDK/
<daftykins> hrmmmm
<daftykins> oh dear oh dear, i think it's a low i shouldn't entertain, to order multipacks of chocolate bars off amazon
<diddledan> MORNING
<davmor2> diddledan: no need to shout ;)
 * diddledan plays the original BSG theme from earlier
<diddledan> fun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pL9q2lOZ1Fw
<daftykins> ooh
<daftykins> little bit concerning how long it took them to be denied on the social side
<diddledan> aye
<davmor2> daftykins: if you have a badge you can walk around most places as long as it looks vaguely like a visitors badge :)
<daftykins> well they didn't get that far in that one
<diplo> Few people I follow in Twitter do this stuff as a job
<Azelphur> I must admit I'm loving the Brexit Â£ crash, I literally just took a long term contract...paid in dollars
<Azelphur> I'm getting Â£200/mo more than I asked for, thanks brexit :D
<diddledan> Azelphur: that's a nice side effect for your personal circumstances. as with most things, some people benefit while others lose-out. "swings and roundabouts"
<Azelphur> indeed
<daftykins> http://www.qwerkywriter.com/
<Azelphur> haha
<diddledan> daftykins: omg that's awesome!
<daftykins> came up in a 'how to spend it' magazine/paper clipping a client showed me
<daftykins> he was mostly showing me one of those 'levitating speaker' things... *groan*
<diddledan> those are silly
<diddledan> steampunk however is awesome
<TwistedLucidity> How to break into almost anywhere: boiler suit (grubby), big boots, hard had, gloves, a machine going "beep", anxious look and (most importantly) gas mask in one hand.
<daftykins> perhaps, but if i were manning the ice cream van i'd be giving you a stern look
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> ms news site is down for me: news.microsoft.com
<daftykins> ok here
<diddledan> this is what I see https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/ZDDSQFwR/2016-06-28%20(2).png https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/6A5FeDUm/2016-06-28.png
<daftykins> yep same IP here
<daftykins> interesting that FF screws up the pics under the "Highlights" section though
<daftykins> they're like blinds that someone hasn't rolled down to the bottom :D
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<daftykins> ugh, someone needs a temporary ban
<daftykins> tabland: sort it out!
<diplo> joins and quits?
<daftykins> mmhmm, and no i don't want to hide them :)
<diplo> heh I miss them sometimes when hidden, but the majority of thetime I don't
<daftykins> it's important when you give support and stuff, no good helping when they've left!
<diplo> tab their name, if it doesn't work they've gone :)
<daftykins> not worth the time when you help 4+ at once
<daftykins> ah well, at least that one seems to have sorted things out
<diplo> I gave up helping in places that busy :) took over my life at times, actually rarely touch machines in the evenings now and only on and off during the day
<daftykins> i agree with you there, definitely less and less worthy of time
<diddledan> I need moar monitors
<diddledan> 2x24inch just doesn't cut it
<daftykins> D: sure it does :P
<daftykins> guess not for a web dev though
<daftykins> have you thought about using virtual desktops, if you run win10 on there?
<zmoylan-pi> you just need to make the 2 screens into a helmet so that you're even closer...
<zmoylan-pi> in the 90s i thought we'd be using vr helmets by now for day to day use.  or at least projectors to make any wall a screen...
<Nokaji> Hi, got me a dual boot with Win8 and need to upgrade - just checking if there are likely issues with this, such as grub corruption - thanks
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Nokaji, no will probably go ok :)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> what kind of lap top as well
<daftykins> upgrading from and to what?
<Nokaji> SebthreeBQM10HD: That would be nice :)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> and indeed
<SebthreeBQM10HD> upgading from what to what
<SebthreeBQM10HD> win8 to win10 I guess
<SebthreeBQM10HD> but what about ubuntu
<daftykins> dude, spam
<SebthreeBQM10HD> dude, daftykins !
<daftykins> ...
<SebthreeBQM10HD> !
<daftykins> come on eh, just try and use a nice single line like this :P
<Nokaji> 6 to 10, yup
<Nokaji> 8.1*
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Nokaji, what kind of lap top?
<Nokaji> Ubuntu 14.4
<Nokaji> SebthreeBQM10HD: It's my home PC
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Nokaji, I dual booted Win 8 with Ubuntu 15.04  upgraded both to laters and ok.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hp that was
<Nokaji> self-built PC
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Nokaji, as I said will probably go ok, but maybe there would be an issue with the uefi or something
<SebthreeBQM10HD> I guess back up, and go for it though after that the upgarding :)
<Nokaji> I need to u/g ubuntu too but need to find out how to back up stuff as I also want to swop SSD, which might corrupt win10 when I have it
<Nokaji> no uefi, too old on this
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Windows 10 gets tighed tothe computer in it's way
<Nokaji> I've heard the ms monopoly (/license) attempts with uefi :)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Nokaji, ok if both oses are in legacy mode the old thing, I guess even more so, it will probbably work ok
<Nokaji> legacy?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> or in your case a old bios, no uefi ?
<Nokaji> yup, old bios, using grub
<Nokaji> 6yrs old maybe
<SebthreeBQM10HD> as I said probably go ok the Windows
<SebthreeBQM10HD> WIndows is the one that might go wrong
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Ubuntu should go and upgrade no problem
<daftykins> Nokaji: 100% rubbish, everything is fine and easy with EFI
<SebthreeBQM10HD> daftykins, he doesn't have EFI though by the sounds of it
<Nokaji> I can live with that - been told I can upgrade and then get a key for a frssh win install
<daftykins> that's not the point SebthreeBQM10HD, pay attention to my phrasing... i'm not saying anything to suggest the hardware is
<SebthreeBQM10HD> oh ok
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Nokaji, if they offered you the upgrade for free then sure you cn get win 10 upgrade
<Nokaji> appreciate your help on this one SebthreeBQM10HD, I've got maybe 48Hrs (30th deadline) so need to act soonish, I never boot to win so just found out :)
<Nokaji> ... they had configured my machine for auto upgrade even though I kept clicking 'no'
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Nokaji, a wINDOWS update might go over Grub? but probably not in your case. I guess that's the worst thing that might happen, but you won't know unless you try, and it will proably be all ok enough
<daftykins> Nokaji: easily avoided
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Windows going over Grub ?
<Nokaji> maybe i'll take the opportunity to d/l U16.4 and make a live boot, so I have more options in the rare case of a total catastrophe
<daftykins> you can probably take action now to stop it from happening
<Nokaji> Thanks again SebthreeBQM10HD, ... gonna run ...
<SebthreeBQM10HD> daftykins, yeah that  may happen, and he's gone now, but yes thats  why people do WIndows first usaully things like that
<daftykins> SebthreeBQM10HD: i know you mean well but i volunteered in #ubuntu for 10 years
<daftykins> so please, no preaching to the choir :)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> daftykins, I  helpd a lot in Ubuntu in 2008 2009 and 2010 and 2011
<SebthreeBQM10HD> and sometimes after that as well
<daftykins> ok, but you don't need to teach me ok? just the person asking...
<diddledan> daftykins: no teaching you unless you're wearing the schoolgirl uniform on the weekend?
<daftykins> shh you said you'd keep that to yourself :(
<diddledan> well I didn't mention the whip
<daftykins> ok Danielle
<daftykins> ...oops
<diddledan> :-p
 * zmoylan-pi pushes the flying goggles and celery under the desk with my foot...
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: and the egg whisk?
<zmoylan-pi> i'm not depraved!!!
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi confirmed - https://youtu.be/T7muPZH3ebs?t=19
<diddledan> daftykins: I'm somewhat concerned at the speed you found that video
<daftykins> the original seems to have gone as it goes, that one has spanish on!
<diddledan> the lass does live shows, too, didyaknow? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSyWtESoeO
<daftykins> yep though i hear they've not quite worked out autographs yet
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> just use a printer?
<diddledan> or maybe a plotter
<daftykins> "now hiring: permanent printer technician to handle the constantly clogging Hatsune Miku autograph unit"
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> gotta love Japanese cultural contribution though
<diddledan> I would love to visit Japan
<daftykins> i feel like it'd be a nightmare to navigate but yeah, be neat that
<daftykins> a mate who just finished a PhD in Physics is going again next month for a job interview, he's already done 2 or 3 stints in research over in Tokyo
<diddledan> nice
<daftykins> he just paid Â£80 to bind his thesis >_<
<daftykins> fancy gold type on the front and spine, needed some greek letters :>
<diddledan> dang. whoever said academics was cheap?!
<daftykins> ikr
<diddledan> I love how academic papers are free for use but you need to pay to get a copy
<diddledan> i.e. the papers are free but the magazines that publish them aren't
<diddledan> totally needs a journal to be created by stallman
<daftykins> he'd have to bug someone else to go online with a GUI browser, fetch them... feed his parrot... and numerous other things to get that working, though
 * diddledan pets dicky
<diddledan> bless his beardy neck
<diddledan> what are all these messages to the ubuntu-server list that say "this is a request to make foo available to the git based merge process"?
<diddledan> e.g. "This is a request to make pacemaker and dlm available for the git based merge process."
<daftykins> hmm my old desktop doesn't like life now it's been replaced, doesn't it always go that way :)
<diddledan> nutjob of the month goes to this man: http://www.macrumors.com/2016/06/28/florida-man-sues-apple-1992-invention/
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> bold indeed
<diddledan> weird. batman v superman is available to buy on windowsstore but itunes says it isn't to be released until the 17th July
<zmoylan-pi> they never expected anyone to see it in windows store... :-P
<daftykins> hmm trawling the local trade site for fun, there's a Surface Pro 2 for Â£350 going
<daftykins> also a couple of nvidia GTX 980Ti cards now the folks realise they're rubbish ;D
<poppy> help
<daftykins> what's up?
<daftykins> ask away on one line with details if it's Ubuntu
<diddledan> heh, I thought that was the other guy (Alan)
<diddledan> I decided not to say his nick due to being about him rather than to him :-p
<diddledan> that way he won't get his nickhighlight pinging in his pocket
<daftykins> me too!
<diddledan> how dare people use names similar to other people that they don't even know exist!!
<diddledan> new winsider build downloading \o/
<daftykins> :o
<daftykins> i heard a rumour of early August for the anniversary build
<diddledan> yeah I seem to recall august too
<diddledan> hah @ the store entry for the store - they didn't screenshot it:  https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/JcfaGgmp/2016-06-28%20(3).png
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> poppy: *boop*
<daftykins> oops
<daftykins> it wasn't me!
<diddledan> I've sent that screenie to the feedback app and informed them
<diddledan> if you are on windas: feedback-hub:?contextid=334&feedbackid=d5775b61-eabc-4886-970a-2b792b414df0&form=1&src=2
<diddledan> that should be linkified
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> in run? it doesn't know what to do with that'un
<diddledan> weird
<diddledan> try it in edge
<daftykins> naw bing
<diddledan> odd
<daftykins> i don't run insider though, so perhaps it's 'cause i don't have the app
<diddledan> aah
<daftykins> it did offer to run the store to make use of it :>
<diddledan> isn't the feedback app supposed to be available everywhere now?
<diddledan> right thatâs my windows machine installing the new build
<diddledan> now Iâm on my maclintosh
<daftykins> does it run its' own email against outside advice?
<daftykins> 8D
#ubuntu-uk 2016-06-29
<MooDoo> morning all
<knightwise> morning MooDoo
<diplo> Morning all
<knightwise> hey diplo
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi knightwise
<MooDoo> howdy howdy howdy
<brobostigon> hi MooDoo
<twager> Anyone tell me if a Motorola phone will mount ok in Linux?
<knightwise> hmm. thinking of getting a fitbit to track my movements throughout the day
<knightwise> not sure what model to get
<popey> my son is saving up for one
<popey> some of the kids in his class have them
<popey> they have contests at play time
<popey> he's looking at the fitbit charge hr
<popey> i think
<foobarry> i have a mi band for only Â£10
<foobarry> lasts 2 months between charges
<foobarry> does what a fitbit does
<diplo> I have a cheaper one too foobarry ( app is called VeryFit ) it's doing its job of motivating me I guess, but do want to upgrade in the future
<diplo> http://www.cotswoldoutdoor.com/garmin-vivoactive-hr-watch-extra-large-E3312150?id_colour=124&channel_code=110&s2m_product_id=190500_124&utm_source=google&_$ja=tsid:45886&gclid=Cj0KEQjw4827BRDJvpbVuKvx-rIBEiQA2_CzsP4jD3vLc3-uiCzMmPENBz-47KXYg456jo6EnXEKLKQaAh318P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds
<diplo> Something like that one, although I've seen them quite a bit cheaper ( that was the first link )
<knightwise> Whoah :) thats pricey
<knightwise> the garmins are cool tough
<knightwise> popey: i was thinking the same thing , the HR does seem pretty cool.
<diplo> I want one to use swimming as well, I've been quite ill over the last few years and want to track my progress with exercise without making it to much of a thing
<knightwise> that way I can track which co-workers tend to get my heartrate up during meetings
<knightwise> As in "who stresses me out the most"
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Wednesday, and happy Hug Holiday Day! ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dOwHzCHfgA watch out for the 80's hair
<zmoylan-pi> they won't need prisons in the future just six months unblocking the drains of the holodecks will replace a life sentence... :-P
<JamesTait> davmor2, +1
<TwistedLucidity> knightwise, popey: My g/f has the Charge HR. Works really well, shame no GNU/Linux support from them. Her company (USA owned) had a step challenge. 15k steps in a week. She does more than that in a day!
<popey> TwistedLucidity: there's a fitbit app on ubuntu phone :)
<TwistedLucidity> popey: Did not know that.
<TwistedLucidity> I'm in two minds about getting one. I'd have to remove it for most of the sports I do, so it'd miss out on all my exercise
<TwistedLucidity> Also, I'm not sure I like the idea of some company gathering that level of detail on me and no way I'd link it to my life insurance (as Prudential keep asking me about)
<zmoylan-pi> there are 100s of ways of feeding fake data into fitness trackers.  attaching them to dogs, cats etc... :-)
<davmor2> popey, TwistedLucidity: currently it is only a receiver not a syncer I think
<davmor2> ie shows the data from the dashboard on the phone rather than syncing the data to the site
<knightwise> TwistedLucidity: we try to do 10k a day
<TwistedLucidity> knightwise: 2 two dogs...
<knightwise> TwistedLucidity: me too :)
<knightwise> there
<knightwise> rebooted the server sec
<knightwise> damn :) had good uptime
<MooDoo> hehe i rebooted my irc box the other day boooo
<MooDoo> only coz i moved from a vmware host to rhel
<knightwise> MooDoo: you running that Vm in the cloud or at home ?
<davmor2> MooDoo: you owld slacker 'ow am ya
<davmor2> MooDoo: and admitting to RHEL for an irc host shame on you ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: and none of that it's what I use at work malarkey
<MooDoo> knightwise: home
<MooDoo> davmor2: I'm good thanks and no i must admit it's partly due to me wanting the RHCSA
<davmor2> MooDoo: ohhhhhh
<davmor2> nice
<MooDoo> so signed up for the RH dev suite
<MooDoo> 1 rhel license unlimited vm's :)
<TwistedLucidity> MooDoo: Is that the free RH dev thingy, or is it â¬â¬â¬â¬s?
<MooDoo> TwistedLucidity: yes mate, it was $99 but now it's free as long as you sign up.
<foobarry> MooDoo: does it give access to access.redhat.com?
<awilkins> talk of VMs reminds me to make a Win10 VM while I still have my Win7 pro key lying around
<awilkins> Has anyone used a Win 7 key to create a Win10 VM? Was wondering if it then refuses to activate or invalidates the Win7
<DJones> awilkins: Don't know about win 7, Iused a Win8.1 key to reinstall without issues
<awilkins> Ta
<awilkins> Already had a lovely issue where I lost the machine ID from my VM and it invaidated my VM
<awilkins> Have now backed that up...
<awilkins> Note : Importing an OVA file into VirtualBox creates a new machine ID
<MooDoo> foobarry: yes it does...
<MooDoo> foobarry: it is self support though, you can't log tickets etc, but you do get all software updates
<foobarry> thats fine. i often arrive at access.redhat KB pages and can't view them
<MooDoo> :)
<foobarry> The Committee has decided to defer its decision on this petition until the Government Digital Service has done all it can to verify the signatures on the petition. We have already had to remove 77,000 fraudulent signatures. The Committee wishes to make clear that, although it may choose to schedule a debate on this petition in due course, it only has the power to schedule debates in Westminster Hall
<foobarry> â the second debating chamber of the House of Commons. Debates in Westminster Hall do not have the power to change the law, and could not trigger a second referendum.
<TwistedLucidity> MooDoo: Ta much
<knightwise> i dont see how they are going to turn this descision around
<TwistedLucidity> They're not
<TwistedLucidity> I watched the Holyrood debate yesterday. Rousing stuff. Right, this isn't #politics and I need lunch!
<knightwise> hmm lunch
 * knightwise had lunch
<Seeker`> knightwise: they can turn it round however they like, the referendum isn't legally binding
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/TechnicallyRon/status/747442381608329223
<sharwood> Hi, just setup IRC. Can anyone confirm it's working please.
<DJones> sharwood: Nope, its not working :(
<sharwood> lol, thanks!
<DJones> Yeah we can see you fine
<sharwood> just wanted to know I was up and running. :-)
<DJones> No worries
<DJones> Main support channel for Ubuntu issue is #ubuntu (most users), this channel is more a general chat channel
<czajkowski> Howdy doody folks
<czajkowski> random Q: would people be interested in kick starting the Ubuntu hours again across the country
<czajkowski> Picking a date/time
<czajkowski> and having a cup of tea with people who want to turn up and chat about Ubuntu
<czajkowski> no talks, presentations
<czajkowski> but once a month meetup and just see the community face to face
<diplo> Problem I found with those is they suited large cities, no one really around this area
<diplo> Enjoyed meeting you and the Alans at the BBQ though
<diplo> Albeit that was a few years ago now
<diddledan> this is what I was faffing-about 11 years ago: https://clustergroup.org/index.php/Main_Page
<diddledan> I was young and naive back then
<davmor2> czajkowski: that's not a question it's a trap I tell you
<czajkowski> :(
<Myrtti> reminder: if you ever need to buy Sugru for anything, put the pack in the fridge immediately. It keeps it fresh and usable for years after BBD
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F4qzPbcFiA
<TwistedLucidity> Myrtti: Mine dry old an go solid after ~1 month
<TwistedLucidity> I try to fix as many things as possible at once to use the pack up
<TwistedLucidity> czajkowski: Not wanting to dismiss your idea, but isn't that a LUG?
<Myrtti> TwistedLucidity: we've got a bag that's got pouches with BBD in 2013, just used one and they're still good
<davmor2> czajkowski: I say it in the nicest possible way, but can see the inevitable can you organise one in your town city, for which I have no time :(
<TwistedLucidity> Myrtti: "BBD"?
<Myrtti> Best Before Date
<czajkowski> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Hour
<Myrtti> or however you acronymise it
<TwistedLucidity> Myrtti: Oh, if the pouches are sealed; sure. Partially used....no.
<Myrtti> they do go bad tho. and quite quickly
<Myrtti> especially in the warm
<czajkowski> TwistedLucidity: ^
<TwistedLucidity> czajkowski: Thanks. Given the death of LUGs over the last few years, it's good to see some outreach going on. A shame the general public don't care about their IT. Convenience is king.
<TwistedLucidity> Right, sun is finally out and dogs want walking.
<czajkowski> I was about to say the SLUG meets once a month
<czajkowski> but Twisted left
<diddledan> czajkowski: that's an interesting idea - I like that it's pretty much informal
<diddledan> just turn-up and talk with people
<popey> yeah
<popey> might do one near me
<czajkowski> diddledan: aye exactly
<czajkowski> figured we could do with giving the loco some CPR :)
<mapps> hm
<mapps> work party tonight
<daftykins> :o
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<daftykins> so there you go, against what i considered to be conventional wisdom... a duff CMOS battery can prevent POST
<zmoylan-pi> it's fun finding out these things...
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> only my old core 2 quad desktop now, but that was a new one on me
<popey> evening slackers
<daftykins> wb dear leader ^_^
<diddledan> interesting: https://docs.microsoft.com/teamblog/introducing-docs-microsoft-com/?i
<diddledan> MS are acknowledging that 15year-old code is crusty
<daftykins> who knew?
<MartijnVdS> not Microsoft
<diddledan> quote: "The first thing we did was evaluate our existing content infrastructure TechNet and MSDN. Both sites are built on a 10-15 year-old brittle codebase with an archaic publishing and deployment system that was never designed to run on the cloud."
<zmoylan-pi> reading microsoft help has always been horrible
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: that's because it was made for IE4
<zmoylan-pi> i'm talking about the hlp files that came with vb... :-)
<diddledan> ouch
<diddledan> yeah those are evil
<zmoylan-pi> and the hlp files for qb which were even more archiac
<diddledan> I bought a copy of VB6 for students way back in 1999 which came with "a copy of msdn"
<zmoylan-pi> and the physical manuals for same...
<zmoylan-pi> that's why i kept the hlp file from vb5 around.  as bad as it was it was still easier to navigate than msdn
<zmoylan-pi> and in a lot of cases more up to date...
<diddledan> this was in chm iirc
<zmoylan-pi> that's the format
<diddledan> why is mono shunned in a lot of linuxy circles?
<diddledan> I think I probably knew but now I've forgotten?
<zmoylan-pi> because it's a social disease? :-P
<zmoylan-pi> because it's seen as a microsoft trojan infiltrating linux at the extreme end and just crap at the the moderate end
<diddledan> free sstickers for developers: https://stickers.onion.io/
<m0nkey_> any developer?
<daftykins> seemed to require a github login, must be stealing your creds!
<zmoylan-pi> but free stickers!! :-)
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> aww ok i just plugged the mains back in and nope, no POST again with a new CMOS battery
<daftykins> can only think the mobo is losing it totally
<zmoylan-pi> do a cmos reset afterwards to be sure?
<daftykins> i have to do that to even get POST back
<daftykins> obscure query... anyone got a nice core 2 quad capable LGA775 motherboard knocking around spare? :)
#ubuntu-uk 2016-06-30
<diddledan> spare?!
<diddledan> I've got one with a core2extreme (quad but more leccy-hungry) in it
<daftykins> do you have the model at all?
<daftykins> my current one makes use of an ICH9R's RAID, 'tis an X38 northbridge too
<diddledan> the board?
<diddledan> MSI 975X Platinum Powerup Edition
<daftykins> ah a little old sadly, ICH7 and 975X
<diddledan> yeah, tis ancient
<daftykins> must be a component gone on mine or something, the way it exhibits different behaviour depending on the order i do things :/
<daftykins> i came up with a nice couple on ebay but one is Â£60 and another has 3 days to go
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bittin> morning
<brobostigon> morning bittin
<SuperMatt> good day
<diddledan> grr @ pneumatic drillers outside
<diplo> Had a similar issue here, an alarm going off from 07:45 till 9am
<diplo> Was driving me insance
<diplo> -c
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> diddledan: could be worse, could be inside
<diddledan> my next-door neighbour is having an on-off yelling match with someone, too
<diddledan> police were here yesterday so Iâm thinking heâs reprising the combat
<knightwise> morning
<diplo> Sounds a lovely place to live diddledan
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Thursday, and happy Meteor Watch Day! ð ð 
<knightwise> There :) Pihole installed on my digitalOcean Droplet and set as default DNS on my work machine :)
<knightwise> Clean !
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qriH-8yeqcE and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3UGELpdQ48 I think that covers you
<knightwise> morning peeps
<knightwise> Hmm.. my pihole isnt behaving
<davmor2> knightwise: either fill it with food so you can't talk then or buy a zipper and padlock it closed? ;)
<knightwise> its my DNS server :p
<popey> bigcalm: happy birthday
<A1108-Guest> I here serve a legal declaration that Alan Pope, of Farnborough, Hampshire, has knowingly participated in the breaking of the European Directive 95/46/EC.
<TwistedLucidity> knightwise: I can recommend OpenWRT with dnsmasq and pixelsrv for blocking magicks.
<diddledan> whatâs pinhole?
<diddledan> pihole
<knightwise> Dns server that filters out adds
<diddledan> aha
<zmoylan-pi> nice
<TwistedLucidity> I just do it on the router
<zmoylan-pi> something not all routers make possible
<TwistedLucidity> Although, if you're stuck with a ISP-provided brick, a pihole is an excellent idea
<TwistedLucidity> Heck, any network kit you have running 24/7 could do it as well I guess
<diplo> Wondering when that was going to happen :P
<TwistedLucidity> Who was nawty?
<TwistedLucidity> Ah, I see now
<TwistedLucidity> I assumed it was some kind of in-joke
<TwistedLucidity> Or maybe Popey had been selling straight bananas and curved cucumbers.
<zmoylan-pi> measured in non metric weights...
<TwistedLucidity> The heretic!
<zmoylan-pi> we could burn him at the stake but ordering an iso approved stake takes forever with all the forms for health and safety
<TwistedLucidity> We'd have to do a carbon offset as well
<zmoylan-pi> he could get splinters if you use an unapproved one...
<TwistedLucidity> I have just found a log file called "killme". One of our lot hasn't been having a good time.
<DJones> Maybe don'tfeed the troll
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: popey doesn't care because 52% of the population said up your Europe so he is now just hiding in this Sovereign state to avoid prosecution now
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: Point of order. It was 26.5% of the population, 37.5% of the electorate. It was 51.9% of those who bothered to vote, I'll give you that.
<TwistedLucidity> Anyhoo, do we now invoke !politics on ourselves?
<zmoylan-pi> welcome to the pedantic channel... :-)
<TwistedLucidity> Pedants with basic arithemtic skills. The unimaginable horror!
<zmoylan-pi> next up the change of literally in the dictionary... :-)
<TwistedLucidity> Well, they did remove gullible.
<zmoylan-pi> probably the same evil shadowy organisation that made dyslexia such hard word to spell. or put an s in lisp...
<davmor2> and there is a new photo of Borris under madman
<TwistedLucidity> Are they they ones that made "cleave" its own opposite?
<zmoylan-pi> and made sure there is only one monopoly commission
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: oh those of the ones that where based on Old Kent road but move all the way round to Pall Mall right
<DJones> Note to self, don't stab yourself with a curved knife, hurts like buggery
<zmoylan-pi> the use of the word curved there is superfluous #pedantchannelday :-P
<DJones> Nah, curved knives make worse cuts
 * TwistedLucidity wonders how much research DJones has done into that.....
<brobostigon> accidentally hit yourself with a scimitar?
<zmoylan-pi> compared to jagged, rusty, covered in iodine blades? :-P
<DJones> Straight knife - smaller cut, curved knife - hooks in and extends cut
<TwistedLucidity> Oh, you mean curved toward blade?
 * popey vomits at the thought of blood
<brobostigon> or something like a scythe?
<DJones> popey: I thought you were a vampire
<zmoylan-pi> that's just natural reaction to hanging out on irc and shunning sunlight... :-)
<DJones> True
<TwistedLucidity> updateprobs5: Why not say your piece in public, rather than PM me?
<TwistedLucidity> updateprobs5: Allow the courts to judge. IRC is not the place. Do not PM me again
<TwistedLucidity> popey: Whack-a-mole time I'm afraid
<updateprobs5> As you wish
<Myrtti> ah yes, kiwiirc
<Myrtti> you might need an extra wildcard for that
<popey> yeah, oops
<TwistedLucidity> updateprobs5: Do not PM me again
<knightwise> Its been a while since I've seen someone get kicked from IRC :)
<TwistedLucidity> Especially with a gobby sod like me around. :-D
 * zmoylan-pi whistles nonchantly and looks innocent
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: Fail
<A7246-Guest> hi
<A7246-Guest> TwistedLucidity's wh0re mother lusts for jesus and the piggy prophet muhamamd
<A7246-Guest> satan give her breast cancer
 * knightwise puts on boot
 * zmoylan-pi awaits hammer of ban...
 * knightwise summons god of "block"
 * zmoylan-pi casts ward idiot
<A7246-Guest> zmoylan-pi is the product of r@pe
<A7246-Guest> zmoylan-pi's wh0re mother has saggy old titties all lumpy with cancer
 * knightwise dusts of altar of Toll Sacriffice
<knightwise> Troll sacrifuce
<knightwise> fice
<A7246-Guest> knightwise's ba$tard father raped his mother
<A7246-Guest> sacrifice*
<A7246-Guest> retard
 * zmoylan-pi sings song of billie goats who smites all trolls
 * knightwise puts on shades and powers up Ghostbusters backpack
<A7246-Guest> :) satan give knightwise
<A7246-Guest>   mother terminal breast cancerâ¦ she lu sts for jesusâ¦ (6) she spreads her hairy legs and shoves a crucifix up her smelly hairy K unt !! :)
<A7246-Guest> jesus raped all the apostles
<TwistedLucidity> popey: Another kick, please
<A7246-Guest> 3:)  3:) DID GOD ASK MARYâS PERMISSION BEFORE HE IMPREGNATED HER ??  3:) JESUS FUKKED ALL THE APOSTLES  3:)  3:)  THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD FUKKED MONKEY, THEN FUKKED GAY MUSLIM MEN, INTRODUCING AIDS INTO THE WORLDâ¦ THANKS MUHAMMAD  3:)  3:)  3:)
<zmoylan-pi> this one does have a religion fetish
<knightwise> Oh Mighty popey !
<knightwise> and a stuck caps lock key
<zmoylan-pi> all hail the mighty popey \o/
<knightwise> -0- Hail Zoltar !
<TwistedLucidity> Why did they even start talking to me in the first place? I'm not the one breaching the EU directive on straight bananas and curved cucumbers!
<zmoylan-pi> i think they just targeted active speakers... attention seeking troll
<TwistedLucidity> Meh. I'm a big boy. Now if you excsue me, I'm just off to geolocate an IP....
<popey> ee
<popey> mobile
<TwistedLucidity> Although they did raise an interesting theological point. Just not one for this channel.
<knightwise> about how we pray to false gods like popey  ?
<zmoylan-pi> because popey can smite you with ban hammer? :-)
<foobarry> wow
 * knightwise is wondering if he will have enough bronze for a popey statue
<foobarry> he's probably gone to comment on some blogs somewheer
<knightwise> that belly requires quite a bit of raw material
<zmoylan-pi> or comment on youtube
<foobarry> or start a political party
<knightwise> probably one of the regular commenters on the "sun" website
<foobarry> and the independent, as i think they don't have mods
<zmoylan-pi> nah, after last week, no one will enter politics without a pre existing personality problem...
<knightwise> Or a shaggy white wig
<zmoylan-pi> well to be fair, on the sun website there is no way to determine trolls from normal readers... :-P
<knightwise> Badum-Tish
<zmoylan-pi> tip your waitress and try the veal...
<davmor2> man now I'm getting sued for tipping my waitress how was I to know you meant give her money not tip her over
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> to go to spain or not
<mapps> im lazy and it feels too far;]
<TwistedLucidity> Chorizo and tapas.
<popey> mmmmmmm
<TwistedLucidity> Off to Catalunya at the start of Oct. Going to get so, so fat.
<popey> Awww, I went to visit my Dad in Spain just before he died. Went to a bunch of restaurants over there in the village. So much good food.
<foobarry> catalunyan suckling pig
 * TwistedLucidity starts drooling
<popey> heh
<foobarry> ate a piglet. felt bad, but not too bad
<popey> Meat is murder!
<popey> Tasty, tasty murder.
<foobarry> meat is tasty
<TwistedLucidity> Although where I'll be is coastal. So lots of fish
<foobarry> oh they do fish bbq on upturned boats
<foobarry> or is that marbella
<foobarry> yeah thats costa del sol
<foobarry> the only time i enjoy fish
<foobarry> every time i want a letsencrpyt cert, i realise my serer isn't vivisble to outsied world so i can't use one
<Oli> foobarry, Make the external DNS resolve it to somewhere else (that you do control) and transfer the certificate across?
<foobarry> i think it checks periodically
<foobarry> its just a faff to make one inhouse
<TwistedLucidity> If it's not world accessible; just use a self-signed?
<foobarry> that makes browsers cry. we can get them supplied inhouse, but letsecnrpyt is easier!
<Oli> Or forward something through from external port 80 to internal port 12345 to a nginx (or other) server that just handles the acme/known handler and drop everything else 444.
<foobarry> this is prod systems guys ;)
<foobarry> generated the csr. just have to wait a day for the guys to bake it
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Ach, live life on the edge. What could possiby go wrong?
 * TwistedLucidity hears a distant "Bang!" and much yelling
<daftykins> foobarry: ah the guys who leaked a bunch of their members details
<svea____> whats happening? https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/vKSYvLXI/irccloudcapture1982775454.jpg
<daftykins> links i will not be clicking, #1 :D
<daftykins> yay the old core 2 quad lives to see another day, nothing like a full rebuild from the ground up with a good dusting for good measure to sort it out
<diddledan> daftykins: well done
<daftykins> thanks! although i have a sneaking suspicion it might do the same no POST trick if i leave it off the mains for an hour again
<daftykins> nope one unplug was all it took :P
<daftykins> for the love of Tux.
<zmoylan-pi> at this point my old boss would be pushing down any chips seated in slots that are removeable in case one of them had heat warped it's way to an intermittent connection
<zmoylan-pi> scanning the underside for weak damaged solder points
<zmoylan-pi> removing the board from the case and running it with as little hardware as possible
<daftykins> just did the last one, before slowly building it back up
<daftykins> and i had the whole mobo out of the case etc, along with removing the cooler and processor for a good clean up
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zd7g9i682g6izyk/AAC7AcXwqim9XwkH7q9_pIGCa?dl=0
<zmoylan-pi> i did have one pc i called rip van winkle as it would just shut itself down, hp replaced, ram, cpu, motherboard, hard drive, cables till it was an all new pc.  it was only when they replaced the case that it started working.  there must have been a short somewhere between the case and motherbord.  took 6 months+ of support calls
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> calls to hp support where my personal best was 12 calls before i reached a 'human'
<daftykins> judging by the whole SSD going missing when i was last using it, it could be as serious as the southbridge dying, so might be better if i just call it a day
<zmoylan-pi> i did have a laptop that denied the existence of hard drives.  that one had taken a whack on dublin bus which left a hairline crack in motherboard.  used it via usb drive distro of puppy linux for a year or so after that
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> i've found a nice looking board on ebay for Â£60... could be worth it
<zmoylan-pi> saves time and effort on something that if you do get going will always be a little untrustworthy
<daftykins> *nod* too true, i was going to give it away but it's not even worth that if a less experienced friend would end up getting his mits inside it making things worse XD
<zmoylan-pi> i'd put a wonky label on it.  put it aside for a month or two.  then take it down. try everything again and if it still gave grief take it out behind the barn with my old sledgehammer
<daftykins> yay!
<daftykins> in fairness i think this board has been doing this for 3+ years
<daftykins> we best put our safe smashing gear on ;)
<daftykins> well, i did it... Â£60 old board purchased
<zmoylan-pi> fingers crossed
<daftykins> :D hope it hasn't been messed with too much, seems it was quite premium in its' day... a nice intel P45 based one with an ICH10R southbridge
<diddledan> Iâm chilly :-(
<diddledan> Craycray for midsummer
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> 'tis a bit here too
#ubuntu-uk 2016-07-01
<MooDoo> 1morning all
<knightwise> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> howdy knightwise you well?  I'm just waiting for an amazon delivery, damn things never here when you want it to be :)
<knightwise> Hey MooDoo , i'm fine, what are you waiting for ?
<MooDoo> knightwise: ssd for my laptop
<knightwise> whoo , thats nice !
<MooDoo> knightwise: yeah it's an old laptop, that I can replace the cdrom with the existing 1tb drive and just use ssd as the main boot drive
<popey> \o/ friday
<knightwise> MooDoo: you are SOOO gonna notice the difference
<MooDoo> knightwise: yeah hope so, read a review on the drive, it's not the best, but it'll do :D
<knightwise> anything from spinning clutter to ssd is a step up
<MooDoo> :)
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> did we finally manage to lose eu suing boy
<MooDoo> davmor2: morning, i must have missed that?
<davmor2> MooDoo: yesterday was international sue popey by a troll day and then insult anyone day apparently
<MooDoo> ah cool
<MooDoo> that explains the +b :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: did you not get the invite?
<MooDoo> davmor2: alas no
<MooDoo> davmor2: so you're saying we should troll on popey again today then?
<popey> good luck with that
<davmor2> MooDoo: no you missed out it was only yesterday....for now at least :)
<MooDoo> ah well
<davmor2> I'm sure some troll will take a pop at popey again, but him being the proverbial duck helps :D
<MooDoo> lol
<davmor2> we do seem to attract some real whack jobs though
<MooDoo> davmor2: it's always been the case
<davmor2> MooDoo: well I mean you me and czajkowski are still here for one ;) then there is knightwise I mean he's not even from the UK and comes here to join in the fun, and then there is zmoylan-pi and diddledan and twisted I mean there isn't a hope in hell right
<Myrtti> I'm perfectly normal, thankyouverymuch
<davmor2> Myrtti: now try saying it without the tick ;)
<Myrtti> oh I've outsourced that to the husband.
<czajkowski> eh?
<davmor2> czajkowski: just calling you a whack job go back to sleep ;)
<czajkowski> ok nn
<knightwise> hmm.. cant decide if i am going to buy a fitbit or not
<knightwise> have untill noon to decide :)
<zmoylan-pi> i got a nuband for â¬40 in argos.  works well for counting steps and gives me a rough idea of how bad my sleep is
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: thats roughly what i'm looking for too
<knightwise> just a way to get some metrics on my health
<zmoylan-pi> and i saw an android smart watch in a discount store for â¬20 which claims to have same features...
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: the problem with android watches (i have a first gen moto360) is the battery life
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, the nuband claims it will run for 3-4 days between charges but last android watch i saw was huge and barely got a day and a half
<zmoylan-pi> but it's like a 1960s digital watch were you have to press a button to make it display time
<zmoylan-pi> but for what i want it works very well.
<davmor2> I had fitbit one till the battery died reasonable accurate and some fitbit devices can be synced on ubuntu with the use of galileo
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Friday, and a peaceful Somme Day! âº
<knightwise> davmor2: which one did you have ,
<knightwise> morning JamesTait
<davmor2> knightwise: clue was in the title Fitbit One ;)
<JamesTait> ð knightwise
<zmoylan-pi> for the somme... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvPtkzdbv90
<knightwise> davmor2: sowwy :)
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h__zgVz9fN4 and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVg2EJvvlF8 I think that covers us for war and peace :)
<JamesTait> davmor2, not sure about your first one, but then I was never a fan of Frankie.  I like zmoylan-pi's contribution though.
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<SuperMatt> morning dudes
<brobostigon> morning knightwise and SuperMatt
<MooDoo> :)
<brobostigon> :)
<davmor2> popey: did you ever receive a summons to the European Court to stand trial for your data privacy infringements ?
 * TwistedLucidity wonders when the banhammer will fall again
<Myrtti> on what?
<popey> davmor2: not as yet
<davmor2> popey: man these trolls you'd think they would at least back up their screaming addabs
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: I looked up the name they PM'd me. Seems it's been grumbling on since ~2012. Whether or not there's anything to the claim, I dunno. I'm no lawyer.
<TwistedLucidity> My guess is though the bodkin yesterday was...er...delusional to say the least.
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: bodkin and delusional like it that polite for beep beeping beep beep beeping whack job right
<TwistedLucidity> Well, their cognitive processes may not have an adequate alignment to social norms and reality; yes.
<popey> they're a long term troll
<TwistedLucidity> Charge them with harrasment. :-)
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: mind you he did publicise popey data so does that mean he himself created a data breach and therefore needs to be counter sued with the same EU directive?
<TwistedLucidity> Won't that depend on whether or not they can be considered a "data controller"?
<TwistedLucidity> Also, with popey being world famous (on the covers of magazines etc) he probably has legions of screaming fans camped outside his house 24/7. So it was clearly public knowledge already.
<davmor2> hahahaha
 * popey goes to pull the curtains
<knightwise> I heard that popey was almost smothered by middle aged women throwing their nickers at him while walking down the street
<davmor2> that's why popey always has his curtains drawn I did wonder
 * knightwise worries for popey becoming another child-start
 * knightwise worries for popey becoming another child-star
<davmor2> knightwise: that will never happen he's not a child
<knightwise> I was referring to his inner child
 * diddledan screams at popey fanlike
 * diddledan faints
 * daftykins catches diddledan 
 * daftykins places him in the 'fainted' section
<diddledan> I think you misspelt feted
<diddledan> fated*
<popey> feta
<popey> mmmmm
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> can't get beta then feta
<daftykins> than
<davmor2> oh god now you got popey mouse onto cheese again
<diddledan> popey: I love your dedication that a mere utterance of your name brings you out of the woodwork :-p
<daftykins> i reckon it was more like a "ugh diddledan has summoned me, brb folks" :D
<diddledan> haha
<diddledan> in the middle of a teleconference he'll be like "sorry, mark, I need to go talk to dan"
<davmor2> diddledan: yeah ruining it for the fans, popey get back on stage, popey for pm, and popey for pope too!!!!!!
<diddledan> davmor2: I asked in one of the tuesday ubuntu on air community gatherings how far the application for popey's sainthood had progressed. it seems that the powers-that-be hadn't even filed the paperwork
<popey> slackers
<davmor2> diddledan: tish shame on them
<diddledan> what with that and chloewolfiegirl asking everyone about their preference of cookies vs biscuit vs cake
<diddledan> at least the important topics are covered!
<daftykins> >:D
<davmor2> diddledan: surely the only response to cookies v biscuit v cake is YES, all three please, NOW!!
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> perhaps the question was simply which order to consume them in?
<daftykins> i mean that's the only logical explanation!
<davmor2> daftykins: you are a genius, depends on the cake obviously
<daftykins> ah wise, sir
<daftykins> i'd be for a carrot cake or cheesecake myself, but i'd settle for a chocolate fudge...
<diddledan> daftykins: +1 on all three of those. you have in one utterance covered my three most favourites
<daftykins> 8D
<zmoylan-pi> why isn't there a cake with biscuits embedded in it.  ice cream cake with jaffa cakes
<daftykins> i think from my perspective it'd be because that would cut into the swift shovelling process
<davmor2> daftykins: yeah but you have to take into account the biscuits and cookies with it. So if it is a light flavoured cake you might lead with that then go into the sweetness of the biscuit and the cookies with it's chocolate goodness
<daftykins> my my we're getting into dessert-Pro level now
<davmor2> you have to take dessert seriously it's the only way to thoroughly enjoy just ask popey about cheese he's the same :)
<zmoylan-pi> then again cheese cake uses crushed biscuits as a base
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: see again this is why it is important to know the cake you are dealing with
<diddledan> http://secondnexus.com/ecology-and-sustainability/antarctica-ozone-layer-healing/?utm_content=inf_10_1164_2&tse_id=INF_19f190303f9411e68e9861cdccd935b9
<diddledan> omgubuntu are reporting on a new meizu: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/06/meizu-mx6-ubuntu-edition
<diddledan> it's not announced by meizu or canonical tho, so I'm assuming if it exists popey won't be allowed to tell us so
<diddledan> gotta love NDA
<popey> I haven't even seen one
<popey> so no idea
<diddledan> \o/
<popey> but yeah, if meizu are leaking then chances are it's legit
<popey> they leak like a leaky thing
<diddledan> lol
<zmoylan-pi> popey doesn't know so it must be official :-P
<diddledan> seive
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: haha
<popey> hah
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: yeah popey is too nice to keep secrits
<diddledan> so they don't tell him :-p
<popey> This is more accurate than you know.
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3561TrVeGD0
<diddledan> this one is better: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GixR1XepbQs
<davmor2> oh oh oh me sir I know sir popey is locked in a cupboard and hidden away from all the products
<popey> so true
<zmoylan-pi> living off beans on toast, cheese on toast, anything that can be slid under the door...
<diddledan> https://boingboing.net/2016/07/01/spotify-threatens-to-report-ap.html
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: no no it's popey mouse he just lives off cheese
<popey> mmmmmm cheese
<popey> although today I'm doing crushed potatoes with broccoli and bbq port steaks.. nom nom
<davmor2> and stilton
<daftykins> well i suppose he could put the stiltson
<Seeker`> popey: what's the difference between crushed and mashed potato?
<daftykins> might make tending the bbq a bit tough, though
<zmoylan-pi> mashed is when they are mashed pre been slid under the door. crushed is when they get mashed _as_ they get slid under the door... :-P
<davmor2> Seeker`: you use a masher to mash potatoes, crushed are softened till they can be crushed, that and it's what it says on the box of the microwave dinner we slid under the door to feed him on
<popey> Seeker`: leaving them partially intact
<popey> not smooth like smash
<Seeker`> basically you get bored halfway through making mashed potatos and think "screw it, I'm hungry, that's close enough"?
<popey> Seeker`: kinda
<popey> They were *delicious*
<davmor2> popey: no that's your treat for the but if you're really good we'll let you out the cupboard for the weekend
<popey> \o/
<daftykins> :)
 * daftykins happily dozes in the cupboard
<DJones> Arggghhhh......Youtube should be banned
<diddledan> poor Stehen :-( http://gizmodo.com/woman-arrested-for-plot-to-kill-stephen-hawking-1782966785
<diddledan> +p
<daftykins> O_O
<daftykins> would be an odd one being his kid, "dear can you reboot your father before dinner please?"
<diddledan> tis a good job he doesn't have the computer regulating his breathing then!
<mappps> hi
<daftykins> allo
<mappps> sup;]
<diddledan> "hey, siri, breathe-in!" .. "hey siri, and now breathe-out!"
<daftykins> that would cut into ones day
<daftykins> mmm not much here mappps, just rippin' a music CD or two and ate a nice chicken jambalaya with plenty of tabasco just now :D
<daftykins> ermagerd just spotted it's a 5CD pack not a 2CD he asked me to do
 * daftykins groans :P
<diddledan> daftykins: you need to made a raspberry pi device to automate it
<daftykins> nah, not possible... tagging would always be done badly
<daftykins> this one has just done what i feared, all the tracks have got their artist field separate... so imagine importing that into a library, every track gets thrown everywhere
<ikonia> I trust people are watching and supporting the Welsh in the efforts to go forward in euro 2016
<daftykins> nope
<foobarry> bel have had good performances this yr
<DJones> ikonia: Hell yes, but then again, I always supprt Wales
<popey> oof
 * daftykins upgrades popey with SASL auth
<DJones> daftykins: Probably needs an upgrade from virgin media to carrier pidgeon
<daftykins> :D
<popey> ð
<daftykins> aww i just got a square for that one
<popey> awwww
<daftykins> someone seems to have turned winter back on
 * DJones looks at sunlight on the houses over the road
<popey> went to co-op to get beer, saw loads of clotted cream in the fridge, all going out of date tomorrow. I think they optimisitically stocked it thinking we'd all be eating scones & jam in sunny days
<daftykins> :(
<DJones> popey: So how much did you buy?
<DJones> Cream that is, not beer
<diddledan> love clotted cream
<diddledan> weirdly my family refers to it as "grotty cream". I have no idea why.
 * daftykins takes notes for GCHQ
<zmoylan-pi> gchq takes note of daftykins
<daftykins> i wonder if i'm in their jurisdiction
<popey> DJones: none
<zmoylan-pi> i think they are of the belief that everyone is in their jurisdiction
<daftykins> i was thinking that :)
<zmoylan-pi> and with all that data they are swamped
<mappps> sso many tv shows to watch;]7
<daftykins> mappps: how was the work party?
<mappps> wasnt bad , food was good
<mappps> gah its so hot and sticky atm
<mappps> horrid;/]
<daftykins> D:
<zmoylan-pi> another few months of summer and then autumn
<mappps> its the humidiy
<mappps> urgh
<mappps> off to work, cya;D
<DJones> Go Wales :)
<daftykins> are they doing well?
<zmoylan-pi> singing in welsh in the irish irc channel so i'm guessing yes
<diddledan> is it possible to discern the difference between "random foreign gibberish" (welsh) and "random foreign gibberish" (gaelic)
<mappps> heh
<daftykins> hmm, you'd probably have to go with the intonations - do the Welsh go up and down like the Irish? :>
<mappps> i cant find the key thing for inernet banking..BAH
<zmoylan-pi> very much so, spelling, pronounciation and an actual chance to wear out the y key
<diddledan> of course the word "gibberish" is pronounced in two different ways depending on whom you speak with: guh-ibberish and juh-ibberish
<diddledan> kinda like cif (the new name to eliminate the confusion of the graphics-interchange format pronunciation)
<diddledan> also, gives a sparkly shine to your bog
<daftykins> hrmm this 5 CD set is all scratched to hell and back
<diddledan> \o/
<daftykins> perhaps i shall just say no and suggest ordering one off amazon XD
<diddledan> daftykins: if you manage to get a clean rip, I suggest passing the files through a noise-generator
<daftykins> it's a steal! Â£70 new - https://www.amazon.co.uk/101-70s-Hits-Various-Artists/dp/B000TUC4X2/
<zmoylan-pi> still ripping them... last time i ripper cds (a month or two back) it took less than 20 mins to rip 3 cds
<daftykins> well you probably do it with a very basic no error correction straight to $format type :)
<diddledan> you mean you're applying dilligence?! fo shame!
<daftykins> however this one is cringing on the last 2 tracks where there's a multitude of damage to the surface, so the error correction is having a field day
<daftykins> ah yeah, prope Exact Audio Copy (EAC) rippin' involving gap detection, .CUE file generation - and test and copy ripping to ensure it's 1:1 :D
<daftykins> *proper
<diddledan> next thing you'll be telling us you're using a format with greater clarity than 64kbps mp3!
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> FLAC <3
<zmoylan-pi> i did have one badly scratched cd so i played it in music cd player (played ok there) and used a cable link to pipe the audio into wav files which i converted to mp3 :-)
<diddledan> yeesh, who are you doing this for? I'm guessing someone from royal lineage by the effort and quality of the result!
<daftykins> i don't think these bad boys are going to play in anything, if error correction can't get past it, it's game over
 * zmoylan-pi pictures nog fixing worfs klingon opera for a favour :-P
<daftykins> "yes brother"
<daftykins> ah no that was Ram
<diddledan> I can't remember that episode well enough to recall what he did with it
<zmoylan-pi> the error correction is handled slightly differently by data cds in pcs and audio cd players in music players
<daftykins> Nog's more angry :>
<daftykins> yeah, pretty sure EAC's approach would get a working copy out of it if it were possible though
<diddledan> nog was rom's kid wasn't he?
<daftykins> yep
<zmoylan-pi> yup
<daftykins> track 21, Kiki Dee - Amoureuse ; this will not be coming out
<daftykins> he does actually pay me to do 'em, one set in FLAC for the local library and another for the portables in MP3 V0 :)
<zmoylan-pi> circumventing drm... ::me reports daftykins to the authorities::
<daftykins> there is no DRM
<diddledan> random tangent: I've got a 360KB (DD) 5.25inch floppy drive and a 1.44MB (HD) 3.5inch floppy drive hooked-up to a USB device called a kryoflux for ripping floppies
<zmoylan-pi> why such a low spec 5.25" drive?
<daftykins> what on earth are you pulling off? :)
<diddledan> I ebayed it
<diddledan> I don't believe I have any 5.25inch floppies that are non-360KB
<zmoylan-pi> i'm sure i could find a few cover floppies from the 90s...
<zmoylan-pi> most of the 3.5" were aol discs ended up been sent to customers with software patches on them... thank goodness for aol... :-)
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> last time i did anything with a floppy i had to sit and re-read it about 12 times before it must've presumably remagnetised and started to work
<daftykins> removed the last one the last time i was in the server though, needed more space for HDDs!
<zmoylan-pi> i really liked the ls120s which were a super floppy 100% compatible with 3.5" discs.  and also read a 120mb floppy
<daftykins> ah that rings a bell
<zmoylan-pi> i convinced my boss to replace the tape drives in point of sales systems with them.  saved a bundle and much less hassle.
<zmoylan-pi> when they stopped making them we swapped to zip disks
<daftykins> back when imation weren't in an utter state
<zmoylan-pi> iomega did well with zip for a while too
<zmoylan-pi> and then the click of death
<diddledan> I always thought iomega would have gone-into portable hard disks as an evolution of their tape system
<diddledan> course the 2.5inch usb hdds are close but not quite as usable as interchangable units with a reader box
<diddledan> I still have a desktop pc tho :-p
<zmoylan-pi> they moved from zip to jaz drives but their customers didn't follow them as it was much more expensive for not such a giant leap
<daftykins> i had clients with zip but i never put any in or advised any, was slightly before my time though
<diddledan> what was the competitor to zip and jaz by sybase?
<diddledan> used in a mac-using designers I did work-experience with
<diddledan> by a*
<zmoylan-pi> not ringing any bells...
<zmoylan-pi> superdisk ls120 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SuperDisk
<diddledan> oh I think I might have the wrong name
<diddledan> syquest?
<diddledan> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SyQuest_Technology
<daftykins> that rings a bell
<zmoylan-pi> some flopticals...
<zmoylan-pi> never saw any of those used in anger
<daftykins> the apricots my dad brought home from his government job, one had removable 50MB cartridge type 'hard disks'
<daftykins> eventually died and he got a local shop to put in a SCSI card and a maxtor disk, i tried to fire it up a while back but it's old enough to mean that a failed CMOS battery means a totally unworkable BIOS, just no idea of all the config it'd need to work again
<zmoylan-pi> i do remember one of our customers bought a frankencontraption that streamed data in such a way that it could be recorded and recovered from home vcr systems
<daftykins> haha, madness
<zmoylan-pi> madness, no this is data recovery ::kick::
<daftykins> :)
<diddledan> someone/thing is moaning/wailing outside
<zmoylan-pi> not a welsh person
<popey> meanwhile.. https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/y9amfmxvgtpis5nmikig.JPG
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/3qg0d89ql430ozs/rip.png?dl=0
<daftykins> yeah that was a fail
<daftykins> XD nice outfits
<ali1234> popey: they look like bert and ernie
<diddledan> https://unity3d.com/pages/adam
<popey> hah
<diddledan> daftykins: only three are wonky in that screenie
<daftykins> 4
<daftykins> had to cancel the last 'cause it was getting nowhere
<diddledan> aah
<daftykins> CD2 went fine mind
<daftykins> just hearing this constant whoosh of air behind me, where the drive is in my server XD
<popey> diddledan: woah, that's pretty amazing
<diddledan> popey: I wonder if the wachowskis can claim copyright infringement based on the mocap in the opening sequence being ripped from the matrix?
<popey> is it?
<diddledan> popey: the movements are very accurate to the awakening scene where neo is first let-out of the matrix
<daftykins> so a normal baseball game goes 9 innings, this current one up in Toronto is in the 17th XD
<diddledan> when is tea?
<daftykins> all the time!
<diddledan> sucky wordwrap, but: https://paste.ubuntu.com/18272883/
<diddledan> maybe I should put it somewhere else to be easier to read
<daftykins> yesh!
<diddledan> try this: https://markdownshare.com/view/07b37716-e5bc-447d-a001-10ab472f25fc
<daftykins> yay
<daftykins> oh it's politics
<daftykins> ;D
<diddledan> funny politics
<daftykins> Guernsey should've switched to euros the night before ;_;
<daftykins> actually no, i find it a really daft currency XD
#ubuntu-uk 2016-07-02
<diddledan> why do tv programs insist on playing a squark while the good guys are talking on the radio to indicate that the bad guy stopped listening?
 * daftykins squints
<daftykins> i just got OBS working with Firewatch and Hitman, that was neat :>
<diddledan> was anyone watching?
<daftykins> just a mate, it doesn't actually give any stats in OBS so no way to know unless i watch myself XD
<daftykins> i'll give you a prod if i do some this weekned :>
<daftykins> weekend too
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperEngineer> o/ brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning SuperEngineer
<Bob_8732> @search auggie
<popey> not sure what you hoped that would do Bob_8732 :)
<diddledan> Morning
 * penguin42 yaaawwwnnnns at diddledan
 * brobostigon woops, he finally managed to get openvpn working in network manager.
<penguin42> ah, I've used that for a while
<brobostigon> ah.
<daftykins> hmm good ol' ebay system fails to validate Guernsey mobile numbers correctly
<daftykins> "Please enter your mobile number." - "That's not a mobile number!"
<DJones> Hmmh, walking the dog, 4 "lads" in black hoodies decide they want my mobile phone.....One now has testicles stuck in the throat, 3 ran off when the dog opened his mouth
<daftykins> :O nasty
<daftykins> i'm not sure i'd have the gall to stand up to a situation like that
<daftykins> glad nothing became of it
<DJones> I'm bloody minded
<penguin42> is the dog an alsation or a poodle?
<brobostigon> or a st'bernerd.
<brobostigon> a friend of mine has a st'bernard, i think the dog walks him most of the time.
<daftykins> re: the popester's cheese love, here are some tales of cheese thievery
<daftykins> http://gizmodo.com/a-recent-history-of-cheese-heists-1782972419
#ubuntu-uk 2016-07-03
<HummingBoy> #Myanonamouse
<HummingBoy> erm guys
<HummingBoy> this is my first time
<HummingBoy> how do i join a new channel?
<mappps> heh
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<SebthreeBQM10HD>  
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> morning girl
<brobostigon> morning boy
<bittin> Debconf has started now: http://video.debconf.org/menzies-9.webm
<bittin> mornings :)
<brobostigon> :)
<popey> morning
<brobostigon> morning popey
<SebthreeBQM10HD> morning popey
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, do you feel like or to some extent that you got the old phone with the pro 5 now that a MX  6 Ubuntu is also on the way ?
<popey> wat
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, new Ubuntu phone on it's way, yours will be officaly old soon h eh
<popey> oh, sure
<popey> that's the way with all phones / computers
<SebthreeBQM10HD> yeah constant updating you mean ?
 * SebthreeBQM10HD Creative Commons music awesome this song this music is lovely :)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> maybe I used /me wrongly there oh well
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, did you really only get the pro 5 since you broke your MX 4, or would you have got it anyway?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> also isn't the hardware in the pro 5 and soon to be MX 6 Ubuntu as well, a bit to powerful generally for the OS to take a lot of advantage of it really
<SebthreeBQM10HD> ?
<popey> I don't think so.
<popey> You can't have it both ways. bq 4.5 too slow, MX6 too quick
<SebthreeBQM10HD> bq 4.5 to slow for what?  and what about the MX 4?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> MX6  too quick for what?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> and what is there in Ubuntu Touch currently really in general that requires a lot of uhmmph power whatever you want to call it from the hardware in general, except for some sort of convegence feature posssibly, get what I mean?  otherwise things are still quite basic in general really right?
<popey> yeah, I don't want a 1GB RAM device with a slow CPU for desktop usage
 * SebthreeBQM10HD gets the impression that the MX 6 may be a bit overkil hardwarewise for quite a long while  if going to haave Ubuntu on it
<popey> a multi-core processor with lots of ram makes sense
<popey> note that most of the time the cores will be asleep
<popey> Good to have them there for when you need them though.
<popey> make -j10  ð
<SebthreeBQM10HD> for convergence more powerful makes sense, yes I guess so.  probably also Libertine more and more as more x programs come etc,  but what else?  the apps seem to be quite basic for example the native ones, and the OS seems quite basic  reallly except for the two just mentioend earlier  things
<popey> Perhaps, but it works the other way too.. people can create apps/games knowing we have devices which can cope
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, seems with the same hardware I mean MX 6  or I guess even Pro 5, for now currently, and pro bably for quite a long while to come, to make much more use of its full potential the hardware or pretty much,  probably better off with Android really for that
<popey> some html5 games peg the cpu quite a bit
<popey> yes, you've made the point, I understand your point
<popey> But I disagree, that's all.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, well I am thinking like, MX 6 is there any point me getting that curently or any time soon, no probably not really
<SebthreeBQM10HD> what would I use it for, that the MX 4 can't do
<SebthreeBQM10HD> or even tablet
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, I don't really care about connecting devices to the TV to be honest
<popey> nobody is forcing you to buy it :)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, yes indeed
<SebthreeBQM10HD> seems it's not wroth the upgrade
<SebthreeBQM10HD> in my case
<SebthreeBQM10HD> and it's also more expensive than the one plus three even
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, I read quite a efw coments on omgubun tu recently to uhm, ones aabout the os being basic etc,   I think I agree with that, but  I know big changes are on the verge of comming
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, I think mostly using tablet is going  well instead of the computer :)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> and the MX 4 has been my phone ever since having basically :),   wasn't  problem for me, I only tend to do basic things like texting calling  a bit of browsing maybe with phones, so app issue not a problem
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, I think a Meizu  Ubuntu tablet would be something :d
 * popey just ordered a replacement screen for his MX4
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, you putting that on yourself or someone else?
<popey> I will
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, mine is in quite good condition still, except for some blue ink on the plastic, since a leaking pen a few weeks ago hmm
<SebthreeBQM10HD> something to keep in mind maybe, white devices mean's  paintable/inkcable
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, more powerful apps would have to be made though to take advantage of the hardware. also it seems that eventaully apps may have to be re  made, since reasons keeping them from basing on 16.04 for example
<SebthreeBQM10HD> are you going to maybe buy the MX 6 as well, even though you got the pro 5?
<popey> not sure, maybe
<SebthreeBQM10HD> why maybe?
<popey> i haven't decided yet
<SebthreeBQM10HD> would you use it enough though
<SebthreeBQM10HD> I mean woudn't it be like your 10th or so recent smart phone if so as well :D ?
<popey> i have a few phones, yes.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> how many preople you got tocall :D and text h eh ?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> that'swhat mobile phones  are for really :D anything else is just extra stuff :d
<popey> i almost never sms or phone people on my phone
<popey> it's a portable computer, not a phone
<SebthreeBQM10HD> yeah same here really
<SebthreeBQM10HD> but in  a way I could do with some more people to do that with :d
<SebthreeBQM10HD> what do you tend to use your  smartphones for?
<popey> same as eveyone else. social network, surfing, email, messaging, games, integration with other devices (pebble), mapping, route planning, shopping...
<SebthreeBQM10HD> h eh the pebble I skipped that
<SebthreeBQM10HD> didn't really have the money at the time to crowd fund
<SebthreeBQM10HD> plus then I  would have wanted more than one as well really it seems so uh
<popey> i emailed the arduboy people the other day btw
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, turns out can get rather cheap smart watches and other things from chinese sites such as  http://geekbuying.com :D
<popey> they said it's coming in july or so
<SebthreeBQM10HD> I already have my arduboys
<popey> scrolling through the list of watches on that site, all look terrible
<popey> and probably would get zero software updates
<popey> and no access to source
<popey> so.. "no"
<SebthreeBQM10HD> I did  pre order a few months or so lter wel this year acsaly march or so two of the offical Tetris  ones similar to arduboy card thing,  I wonder when those will come
<popey> i ordered my arduboy late
<SebthreeBQM10HD> yeah maybeabout those smart watches I don't know, can get rather basic watches for like a pou nd on there to
<popey> the email says they will ship out in july
<SebthreeBQM10HD> I have had my arduboys for like three weeks or so already :d
<popey> turns out I drunk-bought an arduboy and then sober-bought another the next day
<SebthreeBQM10HD> the basic default game is a bit sucky
<SebthreeBQM10HD> not put any othrs on yet
<SebthreeBQM10HD> but I have one of each colour, five :)
<popey> hahah
<SebthreeBQM10HD> turns out that an arduboy can only ever have one game on it at once as wel
<SebthreeBQM10HD> something I didn't know when doing the get five perk, but  ok awesome then, I got five anyway so
<popey> so put a different game on each one :)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> exactly :)
<popey> like the old Nintendo Game and Watch - single game computers
<SebthreeBQM10HD> keep default game on one,  and put games on others
<popey> i have a few games in the works
<popey> one for the microbit which should be fun
<SebthreeBQM10HD> your making games for those or?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> the microbit hmm,  lots of UK 11 yearolds got tht
<popey> yeah, i got one too
<popey> and my daughter did
<popey> brb, off for a bit
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, I got a interesting gaming device sent to me the other week, retro gaming,
<SebthreeBQM10HD> microbit  I  had vagugly thought could buy thagt, but probably not much point really
<SebthreeBQM10HD> there was also a  brazilen crowd funded thing like a month or two ago that was similar to that, but no I did not back that
<popey> SebthreeBQM10HD: what was the retro gaming thing you got?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, a chinese crowd  funded thing
<SebthreeBQM10HD> altough could buy with less space
<SebthreeBQM10HD> aquarius_,  bq e.45 or ef hd ? :d h eh
<aquarius_> I've got an e4.5 (and an e5).
<SebthreeBQM10HD> aquarius_, oh you got both
<SebthreeBQM10HD> aquarius_, how diffenret is the E5 HD to the 4.5 really ?
<aquarius_> it's bigger. Other than that, not a lot different :)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> how else would you say it's differnt
<SebthreeBQM10HD> and how much bigger is it?
<aquarius_> the e5 is a little bit faster, but not significantly that I've noticed. And I think the e5 is too big in the hand, but I don't like big phones, so you may feel differently about that.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> aquarius_, it's not on sale anyore from bq either of those, but could get the Android versibion and stick ubuntu on it onself it seems, but I wonder if it matters then if it's the hd or the fhd  not contacted by about that yet
<SebthreeBQM10HD> bq above
<SebthreeBQM10HD> aquarius_, the 4.5 I got on of thos and the MX 4 Meizu
<SebthreeBQM10HD> the 4.5 is a resoanble size same for the mx 4 r
<aquarius_> hrm. I don't know whether you can sensibly install Ubuntu on the Android version. You'd need to ask somebody about that.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> you can
<SebthreeBQM10HD> they got software for it
<SebthreeBQM10HD> for that
<SebthreeBQM10HD> ,but I know there are like actsaully at least two versions of the E5 the HD that Ubuntu was, but maybe even two of that, and I even saw there was a FHD
<aquarius_> http://www.devicespecifications.com/en/comparison/efa141da2
<SebthreeBQM10HD> aquarius_, it's probably not really worth spending  100 something pounds in my case on such a phone,  since it would mostly just sit in the draw really I guess really or some where, but to actsaully install something one self to install Ubuntu onself removing Andoid coould be something,  but uh nexus 7 would be better for things like that I guess
<SebthreeBQM10HD> sit in the draw mostly or som where, not used
<SebthreeBQM10HD> aquarius_, it's  a bit like with the Meizu MX 6 that's coming soon with Ubuntu,  there probably isn't much proper reason for me to buy that
<aquarius_> *nod* seems a reasonable policy
<SebthreeBQM10HD> aquarius_, well  I got certain other tech things to buy
<SebthreeBQM10HD> that want to buy
<SebthreeBQM10HD> a mind list type thing a mental
<aquarius_> haven't we all? :)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> I did put the  Meizu Pro 5 low down on that list, but that's gone out of stock now ah well
<SebthreeBQM10HD> well that was a maybe
<SebthreeBQM10HD> thinking it through though I got hundreds of pounds I want to spend on other tech in the next few months
<SebthreeBQM10HD> so getting another Ubuntu phone isn't reallly a priority
<SebthreeBQM10HD> aquarius_, I do want  both M10 tables though, since that's a more useful device in my case :) and the one I have is nice
<SebthreeBQM10HD> tablets
<aquarius_> fair play. Myself, I have no use for a tablet, but others like them
<SebthreeBQM10HD> I think it's great having the tableg
<SebthreeBQM10HD> t
<SebthreeBQM10HD> connected to  the logitech k480 keyboard which has a stand thing as part of it
<SebthreeBQM10HD> blueetooth keyboard
<SebthreeBQM10HD> and get to try where Ubuntu is going early like this,  no I don't mean the convergence, but rather in my case Libertine
<SebthreeBQM10HD> b
<SebthreeBQM10HD> aquarius_, being able to ru
<SebthreeBQM10HD> run standard Desktop Linux programs on Ubuntu touch is interesting
<aquarius_> ah, yeah. Lots of people seem to like that. I personally don't have much need for a convergent device at the moment; I can imagine replacing my desktop PC with one when they get a lot more powerful, though.
<diddledan> morning
<diddledan> eh? o_O https://twitter.com/christensen143/status/749617458290561024
<popey> aquarius_: the e5 is one I'm missing - as it marvin
<aquarius_> ah, I didn't notice marvin doesn't have one of them!
<popey> mx4 should be fixed in a couple of weeks, will hook that up
<popey> also need to put a powered USB hub on it, because some devices (like OPO) draw too much current to be on all day
<popey> 500ma isn't enough
<SebthreeBQM10HD> aquarius_, you can sell your E5 HD to popey for five times what it was worth, he'll be a taker  :D
<popey> hah
<popey> yeah... no
<aquarius_> I don't think so, somehow :)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, we could make our own E5 HD Ubuntu surely though, by buying the Android one from some where, and then sticking Ubuntu on oneself using BQ's software ? :d
<popey> I have been given two e4.5s
<popey> for marvin
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, maybe even a more updated BQ E5 like that as well, if the FHD version of the phone works ok with the software like that :d
<SebthreeBQM10HD> marvin was your software thing, I am not sure now
<popey> marvin.popey.com is marvin
<SebthreeBQM10HD> oh
<SebthreeBQM10HD> aquarius_, and yes popey is in desperte need for one, so five times what it was worth will sell to him h eh :D
<popey> hahah
<aquarius_> I might donate mine to Marvin at some point :)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> he could try begging Canonical to some how get him one even though they went out of stock h eh
<popey> actually I might ask internally if there are any spare
<aquarius_> Is there a scope in the app store which is a JS scope?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, in Canonical ?
<aquarius_> I don't know how to find out without downloading them all, which I don't really want to do
<popey> good question
<popey> SebthreeBQM10HD: yes
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, get me a E5 HD if one is spare :d.  more seriously I  would pay a bit probbly for an Ubuntu Edition one, but yeah went out of stock on bq so uhmm
<SebthreeBQM10HD> it was in stock
<SebthreeBQM10HD> in stock in stock
<SebthreeBQM10HD> for nearly a year and then nope
<popey> aquarius_: https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/showdown/winners/ these
<aquarius_> ha! nice one
<popey> you making a js app scope?
<aquarius_> I looked at https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/showdown/ but it doesn't link to the winners :)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, marvin was the thing with your voice in it?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> or was that something else
<popey> no, that's Mycroft
 * popey wanders off
<aquarius_> well. I want to try picking apart a JS scope to see if I can build one. This is difficult because I can't actually create JS scopes on 14.04, but if I have a working one I can probably poke its code a bit :)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> aquarius_, what are you making for ubuntu touch ?
<aquarius_> possibly an apps scope.
<SebthreeBQM10HD>  
<daftykins> blankety blank
 * zmoylan-pi hands daftykins a blankety blank cheque book and pen
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> i hope you wore Wogan's wig
<zmoylan-pi> no but i do have a car radio antennae to fake been a microphone
 * penguin42 bends it
<zmoylan-pi> who do you think you are, kenny everret?
 * penguin42 flips his legs over 4 times and screams absollluttellyy :-)
 * zmoylan-pi rounds penguin42 and his cohorts up, puts them in a field and bombs the baskets
<penguin42> hmph
#ubuntu-uk 2017-06-26
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> good morning
<brobostigon> morning
<lornajane> hey popey is this rumour about you coming to Leeds true??
<SuperMatt> Been reading his emails again, eh?
<lornajane> actually I heard this one in a bar :)
<popey> lornajane: thanks for the reminder, I'll message Will
<popey> :)
<lornajane> popey: awesome!  Will be excellent to see you and that user group is brand new and just getting going
<popey> oooh
<popey> super. i have it in my calendar and sent will the synopsis etc
<popey> it's the day after I get back from holiday so I hope my brain still works :)
<lornajane> sounds good.  Let me know if you get in with time to spare for dinner or something
<popey> \o/
<popey> will do
<foobarry> does get_iplayer still work?
<foobarry> yes foobarry you need to get the new version off github as the --update cli doesn't work anymore.
<foobarry> thanks foobarry
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> pkg_add get_iplayer,
<brobostigon> pkg_add -u get_iplayer,
<m0nkey_> pkg_add? I thought I was in #ubuntu-uk, not #freebsd :)
<foobarry> what is this witchcraft?
<brobostigon> m0nkey_: openbsd to be exact.
<m0nkey_> Sir, I have to know BSD is awesome :)
<m0nkey_> People still use OpenBSD? j/k :)
<brobostigon> my fiance's machine is openbsd, she rocks. :D
<brobostigon> i set it up, :D
<zmoylan-pi> only till the new version of os/2 is released :-P
<brobostigon> lolz, v.500
<m0nkey_> zmoylan-pi: That happened already .. https://www.arcanoae.com/shop/arcaos-5-personal-edition/
<zmoylan-pi> but if you know anything about os/2 you wait for the bug fixes to start coming out :-)
<brobostigon> isnt that why they started working on haiku, to make a viable upgrade path from BeOS, :)
<brobostigon> haiku and BeOS are the best things since sliced bread btw.
<foobarry> i used haiku on my eee pc for a few days
<brobostigon> how long ago?
<foobarry> 3yrs? maybe more?
<foobarry> not sure it had wifi
<brobostigon> so much has changed since then. :)
<brobostigon> i ran it on an eeepc 900 many years ago, the wifi worked fine, cant remeber which chipset.
<foobarry> could have been 5yrs
<foobarry> time flies
<foobarry> iplayer website just giving me spinny wheel :(
<brobostigon> so much has changed in haiku, so many improvements, :D
<foobarry> more likely to run debian vty without gui on the eee pc
<brobostigon> yes.
#ubuntu-uk 2017-06-27
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> g'day
<popey> morning
<brobostigon> morning
<TwistedLucidity> Hi. Can anyone point me towards current documentation on how to configure two networks in Ubuntu (desktop, if that makes any odds)?
<TwistedLucidity> Network 1 has Internet, Network 2 does not. As soo as Net#2 is attached, I lose Internet, DNS resolution etc; despite having routing info, multiple DNS servers all supplied.
<TwistedLucidity> To my inexperienced eyes, routing table looks fine so I have no idea what is wrong.
<BigRedS> can you ping hosts on either or both networks when you lose internet?
<TwistedLucidity> Yes, ping is fine
<TwistedLucidity> I can ping Internet by IP as well.
<TwistedLucidity> Name resolution goes down the toilet
<TwistedLucidity> It's as if the local systemd dnsmasq instance (or whatever is used these days) refuses to check the DNS servers on each networkin turn.
<TwistedLucidity> "dig thing @network-1-dns" and "dig thing @network-2-dns" both work too
<TwistedLucidity> "/etc/resolv.conf" lists the various search domains from the two networks and 127.0.1.1 as the nameserver, which AIUI is the thing systemd runs.
<NET||abuse> i'm not sure i get managing btrfs, i have a home NAS running 16.04, and i have 4 x 6TB disks in a btrfs array
<NET||abuse> i followed some basic wiki's to install, so not really super confident in my understanding, problem is it's been running for over a year in this setup without much monitoring or management
<NET||abuse> ive got graphics work, apps, disk images, media backups and music on here, but i've no idea how much space is really used.
<NET||abuse> if i do `btrfs filesystem df /mnt/data -h`   i get a few lines, but Data, RAID1: total=4.79TiB, used=4.79TiB  makes me nervous
<NET||abuse> System, RAID1: total=8.00MiB, used=688.00KiB    Metadata, RAID1: total=7.00GiB, used=5.63GiB
<NET||abuse> if i do `btrfs filesystem show`  i gegt 4 disks listed as  /dev/sd[a,b,c,d]    all of them say   size 5.46TiB used 2.40TiB
<BigRedS> TwistedLucidity: what does    ip a s    say? it sounds like your networking's working but you've no default gateway
<BigRedS> not ip a s,    ip r s
<BigRedS> the routes
<diddledan> BigRedS: did you have a spasm? ip r s, ip a s <-- looks rather random :-p
<BigRedS> :)
<BigRedS> I wasn't taken at all by this ifconfig->ip switchover until I realised you can abbreviate everything to single letters
<BigRedS> but, yeah, that's `ip all show` and `ip route show` in longer-form
<diddledan> nice
<BigRedS> also, you can do `ip route get <ip address>` to see the route out for that address, which is neat
<diddledan> cyber, cyber, cyber! https://www.wired.com/story/russian-hackers-attack-ukraine/
<zmoylan-pi> you'd think by now the ukraine would air gap... everything...
<TwistedLucidity> BigRedS: starts witl "default via ip-range-#1 dev nic#1 ...."
<TwistedLucidity> Then there's three ip ranges for nic2 (which look correct)
<TwistedLucidity> An odd looking ip range for nic#2 (related to loop-back or this being a VM?)
<TwistedLucidity> And finally, the main ip range for nic#1
<BigRedS> er, so your default route is to go out of the interface you think it ought to be, and to go via the gw you think it shoudl be, and nothing following contradicts that?
<TwistedLucidity> As far as I can see, yes. Bear in mind, I am terrible at networking.
<TwistedLucidity> I think this might be a failure with systemd. Not sure.
<BigRedS> most things are :)
<diddledan> that's an odd image to put against "introduction to functional programming in javascript" https://twitter.com/opensourceway/status/879683492262670336
<TwistedLucidity> Just tried a fresh Xubuntu install; exact same issue. Shame I can't seem to find any current documentation :-(
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/holly/status/879720003288924160
<zmoylan-pi> i only watched that movie for the first time after bowie died...
<TwistedLucidity> Ah, BigRedS has gone just as I cracked it.
<TwistedLucidity> To get multiple NICs working you have to install dnsmasq and then manually hack away at /etc/dnsmasq.conf Very strange.
<diddledan> this is an intriguing bug in the Intel Microcode: https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2017/06/msg00308.html
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: It'd be funny if it wasn't so serious
<diddledan> it's crazy it's taken this long to figure out there's a bug, find the reason, and fix it - I guess most folk just chalked up any errors as transient and/or "well that was weird" and moved onto other things
<diddledan> by the way they describe it as being hit when a loop is executed that has fewer than 64 commands it sounds to my untrained eye that it might be due to context switcheroos hapenning before the other thread on the same cpu is able to accept it's changing
<diddledan> of course, the fact that I'm tring to "hear" with my untrained "eye" suggests that I'm gonna be very wrong due to the premise that eyes aren't for hearing with
<diddledan> bah, burger off then!
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> they got hit by the bug :-D
<diddledan> aww, poor kitty: https://twitter.com/JimMFelton/status/879459351236399106
<foobarry> still getting spinny wheel on iplayer on linux. working on android. anyone else?
<foobarry> on all progs, e.g. http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01qxms3/storyville-the-pirate-bay
<diddledan> the original Blomkvist died :-( https://twitter.com/suziperry/status/879808132679180288
<diddledan> (Girl with the Dragon Tattoo reference)
<zmoylan-pi> hardware problems... :-P http://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2100242/elderly-flight-passenger-throws-coins-engine-luck-delays-take?utm_content=buffer90c8d&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
<diddledan> moron
<zmoylan-pi> one of the first pcs i had to repair was been used as a point of sales in a video library in the 80s... a newbie had been shoving money into the floppy drive... and other gaps
<brobostigon> i have seen other similer gaffs with machines like that, people trying to put objects into computers where they dont belong.
<zmoylan-pi> i remember one customer saved a few bob by having an electrical engineer install new hard drives... he used a rivet gun to secure them... i used to have a pic with a few rivets i found rolling around in base of case when it failed
<brobostigon> i would like to have seen that.
<diddledan> brobostigon: zmoylan-pi : isn't putting things into a pc another word for cyb0rsecks?
<diddledan> wow. rivet gunning an HDD sounds... interesting
<brobostigon> when i was at college, we have a power supply explode in our faces, not our fault, the the power supply was faulty, but it set off half the buildings smoke alarms and emptied half the building.
<brobostigon> we had*
<diddledan> nice! https://twitter.com/AshleyEsqueda/status/879821023675203584
<diddledan> now if only we could embed that directly into our visual cortex
<diddledan> so apparently today's ransomware is using the same eternalblue exploit as wannacry. why didn't everyone update their systems to block this is beyond me!?!
<zmoylan-pi> the last one didn't affect us, we must be safe!
<diddledan> interesting point that it only takes a single vulnerable system to compromise an entire windows-based network: https://twitter.com/mikko/status/879742221326721028
<zmoylan-pi> one nutter bringing in a laptop from home will do the trick.
<diddledan> WMIC and PSEXEC are remote administration things that allow the compromised system to use the current user's credentials (or other credentials if supplied directly) to execute code on other PCs
<diddledan> e.g. if an AD administrator gets caught then his creds can be used to pwn the entire network
<diddledan> even lowly users will probably have some form of access to most desktops so it'll pwn the fleet of user-level PCs no matter what
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: BYOD!
<diddledan> Bring Your Own Device^H^H^H^H^H^HDoomsday-weapon
<zmoylan-pi> they make take my data, but they'll never take my nokia!!
 * diddledan watches while folk count the ^H's
#ubuntu-uk 2017-06-28
 * diddledan just finished building a 9.4MB neural network
<diddledan> only took 12 hours
<diddledan> it's claiming an accuracy of 99.6% on the test data I gave it
<zmoylan-pi> maybe it's emulating a lawyer... :-P
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> now I need to actually build something with it that gives it real-world data to crunch to see if it does what it's supposed to
<diddledan> if you google MNIST you'll get an inkling of what I've been toying with
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> https://goo.gl/photos/Mf4Ads5CfUecKrH17 I am now the envy of all the boys in the office
<diplo_> If you say so SuperMatt :)
<SuperMatt> You know what it is, right?
<diplo> I have no idea, something my kids will know about ?
<SuperMatt> It's the offical mascot of Golang
<diplo> hah, looks like something from the pokemon era stuff that I buy my kids
<SuperMatt> https://blog.golang.org/gopher
<diplo> :)
<Azelphur> Does anyone know how to get Ubuntu 16.04 to start on a GTX 1080?
<Azelphur> I just wanna pop into the livecd and use gparted and its not happening :(
<SuperMatt> Should just work :/
<Azelphur> nah, it comes up with an error from nouveau saying the card isn't supported
<Azelphur> aha, tricked it, nomodeset and remove quiet splash
<SuperMatt> good man
<Azelphur> just nabbed myself another 5TB drive, BNIB off ebay for Â£80 \o/
<Azelphur> takes me to 23TiB usable (35TB total)
<zmoylan-pi> a 3 month supply of kitten videos in the event of zombie apocalypse... :-)
<Azelphur> exactly
<zmoylan-pi> 6 if you just store animated gifs...
 * Laney stabs Three
<Laney> if you buy an addon 1 day before your billing date then you get charged for a full month, and again on the billing date
<zmoylan-pi> i'm sure it says somewhere in the small print 'what's yours is theres and what's theres is theres'
<Laney> it's for the good of CK Hutchinson Holdings Ltd
<foobarry> my desktop started acting funny yesterday. terminal windows closing after a command
<foobarry> slack wouldnt' start.
<foobarry> flipped into vty1 and ran dmesg...disk had died. popped a new one in and kicked off a RAID1 rebuild. phew
<foobarry> turns out my /tmp partition was on the 2nd disk for some reason. hence the weirdness.
<foobarry> as it had gone in a puff of smoke
<diplo> That's cheap Azelphur - a particular seller you're buying from ?
<diplo> I need 2 x 4TB drives atm
<diddledan> I'll be looking for 2 more drives to add to my array soonish
<diddledan> I've got 4x3TB atm
<diddledan> split them up using RAID10ish
<diplo> I don't have 2 drives currently, my 2x2tb mirror failed and had no cash at the time so bought 1x4TB and meant to buy some more  afew months later
<diplo> I failed
<diddledan> yeah. money is my restricting factor atm too
<diplo> Kids summer hols first, so hope it lasts out
<diddledan> lol: google streetview guys: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35LqQPKylEA
<diplo> bah no sounds on this screen
<Azelphur> diplo: nah, just have an ebay watch setup
<Azelphur> guy posted for Â£100 or best offer, offered him Â£70, he countered Â£80. :)
<diplo> May do something similar myself
<Azelphur> Ok guys, add parted to the list.
<Azelphur> I managed to crash it
<Azelphur> https://dpaste.de/jAR4
<daftykins> albeit on a virtual disk of some kind (:
<Azelphur> daftykins: just libvirt :)
<diddledan> why is it the only advert I seem to be seeing on youtube for the last few weeks has been entirely "wix.com"?!
<diddledan> holy heck: https://arstechnica.com/security/2017/06/petya-outbreak-was-a-chaos-sowing-wiper-not-profit-seeking-ransomware/
<zmoylan-pi> does the software send it's own encryption software or does it just use ms's built in encryption software against the users data?
<diddledan> neither. it kills the mbr and file tables
<zmoylan-pi> i thought that only happened if you didn't pay up...
<diddledan> read the article
<zmoylan-pi> but but i'm watching tng picard has been assimilated by the borg...
<diddledan> choice quote then: "while the earlier Petya encrypts the master boot record and saves the value for later decryption, Tuesday's payload, by contrast, was rewritten to overwrite the master boot record. This means that, even if victims obtain the decryption key, restoring their infected disks is impossible."
<zmoylan-pi> malice or incompetence?
<diddledan> the thinking is it's designed to wipe on a massive scale. state-sponsored attack is being bandied about
<zmoylan-pi> handy if you want to bring in laws restricting computers in any way...
#ubuntu-uk 2017-06-29
<m0nkey_> diddledan: you awake?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> good morning
<brobostigon> morning
<diddledan> wat, version 3 of the GPL is 10 years old already?! https://twitter.com/fsf/status/880517268848885760
<diddledan> I wonder if it's ironic that it shares the same birthday as the iPhone?
 * GregKNicholson[m feels old
 * GregKNicholson[m again
<zmoylan-pi> pfffft, i still have phones older than that :-) ::pats nokia e61::
#ubuntu-uk 2017-06-30
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<hajix_> hi there
<hajix_> how r u guys
<hajix_> any body is here for helping
<hajix_> im in elementary os with no liber office
<hajix_> and i download liber from the offical site
<hajix_> and then i extracted
<hajix_> but in the folder there is a lot of deb files
<hajix_> i dont know how to install
<hajix_> witch one to install
<hajix_> HELP!
#ubuntu-uk 2017-07-01
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<DJones> Interesting article http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/06/30/nhsbuntu_nhs_revolution/
<daftykins> penguin42: when i raised cropping back the house phone lines the other day, here's the result! check out my war time connections :) http://imgur.com/a/O0yRr
<daftykins> whole thing is swinging around off the wall due to the large fixings having allowed water ingress which has crumbled it all
<penguin42> daftykins: Golly, technology! It's interesting the connections aren't really paired
<daftykins> indeedy
<daftykins> i'm hoping to see if they fancy redoing it since it's swinging about loosely - plus i'd ideally like to paint behind etc
<daftykins> so much destruction to the paint where the lines have had the little cable tacks put in all across the front too
<daftykins> my Dad is suggesting running mine underneath the window sills instead, not sure if that'd be better or worse
<zmoylan-pi> oh, barry norman died...
<diddledan> :-o
<daftykins> d'aww
<daftykins> must admit i had to look him up
<zmoylan-pi> for anyone over 40 i suspect you say his name and a piece of music and film x were x is the year the show went out springs to mind...
<daftykins> :>
<diddledan> I used to love Film X with him
<zmoylan-pi> pre internet it was how you found what movies to go see
<diddledan> they tried to reinvent it several times since but it just didn't work as well as when they had Barry doing it
<zmoylan-pi> jonathan ross was good but still not a patch on norman
<daftykins> haha the OnePlus 5's (a phone) screen is mounted upside down and causing scrolling quirks
<zmoylan-pi> so it's mac touchpad orientation scrolling? :-P
<daftykins> :D
<brobostigon> https://man.openbsd.org/synclient ?
<daftykins> heh Apple reversed the direction OS wide a few versions ago, was quite mad
<daftykins> i had one Mac client ask 'wat'
<diddledan> I switch between mac and pc so often that I just randomly scroll both ways until it goes the direction I want
<daftykins> :D
<brobostigon> if only apple decide to make a machine with just just pure darwin, i complain at that, :)
<brobostigon> wouldnt*
<diddledan> they don't release darwin source anymore iirc
<diddledan> :-(
<brobostigon> ie. bsd, ultimatly.
<brobostigon> :(
<daftykins> brobostigon: i'd hope you would since all the parts would be soldered in and it'd be pure evil!
<daftykins> complain that is
<brobostigon> daftykins: i use openbsd, haiku now most days, and then debian on some of my machines. my partner she is windows/iphone'ipod background, now i had to teach her when the machine starts up to eun things like startx and them mod1 + enter to get your program menu up, but after four years she has started to understand it, an understands now why having a more functional rather than an interface which or more bling than functional is more beneficial.
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> i'm just digging at Apple's hardware decisions there
<daftykins> thou shalt have a disposable machine
<daftykins> ^ i should have put quotes around that one
<brobostigon> yep.
<brobostigon> i tried to explain to her once, how unix pipes work, i compared it to how you can redirect data from one program into another to try and explain it. i think she knew the geek and nerd i was, :D
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i found that was one of those *nix concepts that's easier to see a practical use of, then get explained
<daftykins> that free intro to Linux course i did for fun spoke of IO redirection but without context it was pretty bad
<penguin42> it's harder when you don't need to build formatting/grepping/awking pipes much
<brobostigon> example, less /var/log/apache2/access.log | grep iphone
 * penguin42 swaps brobostigon's grep and less
<daftykins> yeah you could just grep the file direct there :D
<brobostigon> less /var/log/apache2/access.log | grep iphone | less
<daftykin1> oh dear i've actually lost a few megabits since faffing with the phone cables
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> that was careless
<daftykin1> i know, if only i'd swept them up as well as the paint chippings
<daftykins> stands to reason flexing the cable around would harm my rates :)
<diddledan> rates have gone up again? damned taxes!
<daftykins> kinda tempted to just run my own replacement cable tbh whilst i have the scaffold
<daftykins> ooh yes, the island needs a new golden donkey statue
<penguin42> daftykins: It hardly looks 'balanced'
<daftykins> uh oh, clone problems
<daftykins> *ahem*
<daftykins> balanced you say?
<daftykins> yep definitely lost sync a few mins ago, ho-hum
<daftykins> i wonder if electrical wholesalers sell outdoor spec by the metre
<penguin42> daftykins: it's supposed to be tricky because when they get upset they'll drop back a bit and wont come back up for a while
<daftykins> ah indeedy
<daftykins> to be honest i'm a bit beyond the line length to even have the 60Mb down service i'm on, as when i was on the 40Mb i saw a sync speed of only 52
<daftykins> bit annoying to see they put interleaving on too, probably from the time i was getting packet loss
<daftykins> i've an odd one at my parents place, they're on the basic 20Mb down and 1Mb up ADSL2+ service, the download is absolutely fine but the upload isn't so stable and there's crackling on the voice line if you just listen to the dial tone... i even replaced the socket for a filter built-in type
<daftykins> their answer is to apply a profile capping the upload to 768Kbps but i'm not fond of that approach
#ubuntu-uk 2017-07-02
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan> allo allo
<daftykins> mmm too much house work, i am pooped!
<CoderEurope> Anyone heard of the ACDC act on badvoltage ?
 * diddledan puts-on his gimp mask
<diddledan> flexiondotorg, popey: should I file a claim on the name "gimp" in snapcraft.io store to link my snap of gimp to?
<diddledan> it moans about it being a reserved name, see
<CoderEurope> diddledan, how goes the things ?
<diddledan> they're going
<CoderEurope> right-oh - Iam justing talking to system76 & hopefuilly paying in bitcoin for my Galago Pro.
<foobarry> any iplayer users sturggling to play anything?
<foobarry> on linux
<foobarry> can't watch anything at all
<foobarry> spinny wheel of death
<diddledan> which OS? buntu?
<foobarry> ubuntu-based,
<foobarry> started happening last week maybe
<foobarry> firefox and chrome
<diddledan> I know I shoudl assume considering the channel but what with daftykins being a windwos user :-p
<daftykins> user of them all!
<daftykins> that's how i know everything sucks in part ;)
<diddledan> nogo in firefox
<diddledan> "this content doesn't seem to be working"
<foobarry> tried incog mode too
<foobarry> all i get is spinny circle, no error
<diddledan> do you have flash installed?
<foobarry> don't think so
<diddledan> chrome from google.com works for me
<foobarry> oh i do have flash. upgrading now
<diddledan> chromium also seems to work
<diddledan> I don't have flash installed
<foobarry> didn't fix it
<foobarry> maybe my router needs a restart
<foobarry> but it works on android..
<diddledan> once I install flash then firefox works
<foobarry> sigh
<foobarry> thanks anyway
<foobarry> :'(
<diddledan> I therefore posit something is amiss your end which means more difficulty working out what is wrong :-(
<foobarry> doing a dist-upgrade
<diddledan> might be an ISP issue?
<foobarry> could be. i'm on talk shmalk
<diddledan> or your wouter might be wonky as you suggested
<diddledan> btw. dr who!
<diddledan> omg
<foobarry> http://downdetector.co.uk/problems/iplayer
<foobarry> not sure if this is just confirmation bias
<diddledan> are you logged into bbc.co.uk? (I wasn't - perhaps I should try logging in and seeing if there's any difference)
<foobarry> i tried that
<diddledan> as in logged into a user account there
<foobarry> and inciog mode
<foobarry> will try on my work laptop maybe later
<foobarry> busy building containers
<penguin42> wouldn't be surprised if it was related to the h264 stuff
<foobarry> i seem to have discovered a massive performance issue with the python in  centos Software collections
<diddledan> oh dear
<foobarry> trying to prove it
<daftykins> bonus Hobgoblin branded crisps and painting progress! http://imgur.com/a/fma3Z
<foobarry> look tasty
<foobarry> i love crisps
<daftykins> me too :D no idea where my parents found them
<penguin42> daftykins: That street is crazy :-)
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> 'tis a wee pedestrian only lane right in the centre of town
 * penguin42 hopes the bottom window isn't your bathroom
<daftykins> XD lounge
<diddledan> porn has broken me. I see the name "spit roast steak" and I immediately go into the gutter
 * penguin42 fortunately doesn't know what diddledan is worried about
<daftykins> i think iy's more us worried about diddledan
<daftykins> *it's
<daftykins> i'm sipping some Old Peculier tonight
 * daftykins looks at diddledan 
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> now you're just taking the mick :-p
<daftykins> that's Crocodile Dundee to you
<daftykins> ;D
<foobarry> tried html5 and flash on iplyer too
<foobarry> get_iplayer works :|
<foobarry> anynone seen this motd kerfuffle?
<daftykins> ?
<diddledan> don't you just hate when someone has a personality: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/30/jeremy-corbyn-developing-cult-personality-terrifying/
<foobarry> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14662088
<foobarry> corbyn takes photos of mahole covers, he ha sno personality
<diddledan> yeah, but that article is complaining that he has too much
<diddledan> I can't read all of it because paywall
<foobarry> read the ycominvator instead..
<diddledan> this could be scary: https://www.geek.com/tech-science-3/googles-ai-learned-to-be-highly-aggressive-when-stressed-1689170/
 * zmoylan-pi reports daftykins for taking the mick...
<daftykins> i never touched it!
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: I bet he's a prod
<zmoylan-pi> check to see if he's recently polished his marching shoes...
<zmoylan-pi> getting ready for another spacex launch... https://youtube.com/spacex
#ubuntu-uk 2018-06-25
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<locodir-user> Could someone give me a guide for how to make partition of /home, /, swap areas?
<daftykins> that one was from turkey o0
#ubuntu-uk 2018-06-26
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightw0rk> morning peepz
<knightw0rk> hey brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi knightw0rk
<knightw0rk> how is it hanging today man
<brobostigon> starting to write a business plan, doing some basic viability mathematics.
<knightw0rk> aha going into business for yourself ?
<brobostigon> maybe, hence i am calculating possible viability.
<brobostigon> knightw0rk: i just did a calculation using the basis of average commercial property cost and other costs and need ro run a profit of Â£2016 to cover my basic costs.
<brobostigon> per month*
<knightw0rk> I know the dril :) this is your 'flotation rate'
<brobostigon> yes, just to keep myself alive.
<brobostigon> :)
<knightw0rk> switching inbetween contracts , might be home for a couple of weeks so that "flotation rate" has been very much on my mind lately
<brobostigon> i can imagine.
<knightw0rk> We have some buffer and we also have our own clients for who we have running projects
<brobostigon> thats good.
<knightw0rk> yeah , but stil, a bit nervous
<brobostigon> understandable.
<brobostigon> i recalculated it, its infact around Â£2800pm.
<zmoylan-pi> first world problems... https://scontent.fqlf1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/36189272_1909010842498120_9034126938750320640_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&_nc_eui2=AeF6MG2an2fxZcHf9ZxLKb2-0hH8jZp7sdghIini-kyK1TJg8qwXQYCIenupe6PV9AMuLffiEJ-Hb8Biy8nc7Iqwsvv5l2yk8HlzM0NX4_pLIg&oh=bf59772a0cbbb9235f2c0bc7e9891d89&oe=5BB27035
<Riddell> popey: did you have an issue with the slimbook?
<popey> Riddell: nothing significant, no. :)
<popey> It's a great machine
<popey> The only oddity was that it seemed to ship by default with power management off and wifi off. So when I close the lid, the battery died (it didnt suspend)
<marshmn> hi all; anyone here use Google's Compute Engine etc?
<marshmn> today it's not letting me boot my VMs saying that resources aren't available in my zone; but even trying another zone I'm getting the same message
<marshmn> just wondering if others are having issues today too
<marshmn> I'm not that familiar with Google Cloud TBH - I use AWS for most things like this
<Riddell> popey: did you have to do anything to fix that?
<popey> Riddell: click the blue box to enable wifi, click the blue box to enable power management :)
<popey> So I consider it 50% pilot error ;)
<popey> and 50% odd defaults
<popey> I think the battery died 3 times with the lid shut before I realised what was happening.
<popey> The slimbook 2 has a sleep (power) light on the keyboard, so invisible when the lid is shut, which is bizarro design, but not much slimbook can do
<Riddell> I've reinstalled my slimbook 2 loads of time and never had that issue
<Riddell> I wonder where it picked that up from
<popey> odd, this was as delivered
<Riddell> I'll talk with them at Akademy about it
<popey> ok :)
<popey> Riddell: btw, on another podcast (Big Daddy Linux) last weekend they asked me to suggest a distro to challenge them all to test. Naturally I suggested KDE Neon :)
<popey> s/distro/iso/ ;)
<Riddell> ooh a challenge
<daftykins> diddledan: apparently you can has moneys \o/
<diddledan> yey
 * diddledan plans a splurge
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> also managed to change their password on the site since it was a word featured on the site itself :( not too great
<diddledan> eep
<daftykins> probably had a hand in things being taken over last time
<diddledan> maybe, yeah
<daftykins> in other news how's this for a joke domain co, blacknight.com the Irish one
<daftykins> "sir in order to transfer this .gg domain from another of our customers to you, we ignore the EPP code and ask that you ask the current holder to release it"
<daftykins> nice job folks, so then once that bit is done...
<daftykins> "yeah we don't have a DNS management transfer process, so what you'll have to do is ask the previous guy to cancel it - then you can add it and add the records manually - if you're quick there will be no downtime!"
<daftykins> sweet 8D
<diddledan> wat
<diddledan> that's a bit nuts
<daftykins> mmhmm :D
<diddledan> "do it quickly" is not the answer
<diddledan> .. to any question
<daftykins> so to them, a transfer and ownership is solely who's paying at renewal time
<daftykins> on all other things i won besides convincing my mate not to use technologies he doesn't understand how to maintain :D
#ubuntu-uk 2018-06-27
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<Myrtti> *squint*
<Myrtti> slow day I see
<MattJ> Hello
<diddledan> allo, Myrtti , some of us are in the ubuntu podcast telegram which is more active than here these days
<Myrtti> I see
<MattJ> Telegram :/
<diddledan> popey: did you break telegram?!
<diddledan> 500 error on their homepage, too https://telegram.org/
<mgdm> Jabber...?
<diddledan> good plan, mgdm
 * diddledan spins up a server :-p
<MattJ> mgdm, Jabber \o/
<mgdm> MattJ: it still works \o/
<Myrtti> question du jour
<Myrtti> should I upgrade from 1604 with Unity to the unknown without it
<MattJ> Apparently https://matthewwild.co.uk/uploads/jabber.png was (almost) 10 years ago
<mgdm> :D
<mgdm> I should fire up a Jabber server again, I didn't bother after I moved VPS last time
<MattJ> sudo apt install prosody, something something certs, and away you go
<mgdm> Ah, I haven't tried that one, I was previously using ejabberd
<MattJ> I started the project... almost 10 years ago :)
<diddledan> yeah I've used ejabberd in the past
<MattJ> I started it because I also used ejabberd in the past
<MattJ> Though to be fair, ejabberd is also better than it used to be
<diddledan> ejabberd is written in erlang IIRC?
<MattJ> Yeah
<diddledan> really esoteric choice of language IMO
<MattJ> In theory it got them clustering for free (the ability to host the same domain across multiple servers), something that Prosody still doesn't have
<diddledan> if it were conceived now then I bet they'd do it in Golang like all the cool kids :-p
<MattJ> In reality clustering isn't something you can plug and play
<mgdm> MattJ: ah cool, I didn't realise it was one of yours, I will give it a shot later :-)
<MattJ> There's a very early-stage server in Go: https://github.com/ortuman/jackal
<MattJ> mgdm, feedback welcomed if you do :)
<mgdm> sure!
<popey> diddledan: i did?
<popey> go me!
<diddledan> yey
<diddledan> well someone did
<diddledan> it might as well be you, because it wasn't me :-p
<diddledan> been down about an hour now
<diddledan> did you fix it?!
<popey> Yes, yes I did.
<daftykins> o0
<mgdm> now Slack is burst
 * mgdm proceeds to get work done
<daftykins> i found yet another use for cat6 UTP strands, this time lashing a gutter to a wall - https://imgur.com/a/hSo0X30
<daftykins> i'm not convinced it'll hold, mind you :)
<mgdm> I think you might have exceeded the Cat6 bending radius, there... :-)
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> drat my throughput may suffer
<daftykins> with a couple of gutters smartened up along with those new windows, it's finally time to get rid of the scaffold after a good year
<daftykins> the next one down spans the whole width of the house, i'm drawing the line there!
<knightw0rk> hey guys ;)
<knightw0rk> will it dupport the rain torrent protocol ?
<daftykins> depends if it gets clogged with seeds :>
<marshmn> hmmm, I just found 'Rambox'
<marshmn> I've been using Wavebox for the past couple of weeks - it's been working well for me, but now that it's free trial is ending...
<marshmn> thought I might as well see if there is a free equivalent of some sort...
<marshmn> looks like Rambox might just fit the bill
<diddledan> did someone break telegram again?!
<zmoylan-pi> slack was down earlier, now google speakers and chromecast are a bit wonky... i blame the heat...
<zmoylan-pi> but as long as that 1 hamster keeps running in his wheel irc abides... :-)
<diddledan> squeek
 * zmoylan-pi applies a little wd40 to the wheel...
#ubuntu-uk 2018-06-28
<daftykins> well now you've done it, you lubed the wrong wheel! :D
<zmoylan-pi> i blame big oil...
<daftykins> at least it's not X-Files Black Oil
<zmoylan-pi> smartoil... before it's time...
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<Gargoyle> I'm creating a local mirror using rsync from gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu. It's available on my LAN at my-server/apt-mirror. As the sync is in progress I can see the top level has directories called ubuntu, pool, dists, indices. Woudl I be correct in thinking I would set my machines to use my-server/apt-mirror and not my-server/apt-mirror/ubuntu?
<mgdm> I would have expected to need the /ubuntu at the end, but it's been a while since I did that
#ubuntu-uk 2018-06-29
<Myrtti_> Morning
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<brobostigon> o/
#ubuntu-uk 2018-06-30
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<Myrtti_> Mmmmmhhh.
<brobostigon> morning
<knightw0rk> hey guys   hows it hangin
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<knightw0rk> just sshing in from my holiday spot in france into the pi at home. gotta love technology
<zmoylan-pi> all hail the noble pi, it's constant vigilance...
<knightw0rk> Yap. I'll probably upgrade my Synology next month. Then I can use it as my plex server and tandem it with my Sonarr on my pi.
<knightw0rk> then I don't even need a more powerfull machine to run my plex server anymore and can do it all from the pi
<knightw0rk> less devices ftw
<knightw0rk> switchign between a bloggin app and this ssh window using alt-tab on my ipad. Man this little slate feels (and looks) like some kind of linux machine.
<zmoylan-pi> hopefully green text on black background for maximum leet hacker points :-)
<brobostigon> :)
<knightw0rk> Check my twitter post and you get a screenshot
<knightw0rk> Solarised for IRSSI, green on black for the blog
<zmoylan-pi> i'm not seeing you in my tweetdeck... twitter handle?
<knightw0rk> Â§@knightwise
<zmoylan-pi> shiny :-)
<zmoylan-pi> i don't have my pi accessible to outside world. just iniside my lan. will have to change that some day...
<zmoylan-pi> and i recommend newsbeuter for console rss client. handy to have all your rss feeds ready and waiting in a terminal window
#ubuntu-uk 2018-07-01
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
 * zmoylan-pi ponders what to do today...
<brobostigon> pub quiz at my local, from 4pm onwards, :)
