#edubuntu 2006-05-29
<cbx333> hi pygi 
<pygi> hey cbx333 
<cbx333> https://launchpad.net/products/gisomount
<cbx33> take a look
<cbx33> thanks to you I got started in python....me and LaserJock are working on it :D
<pygi> cbx33, oki, if you say so
<pygi> o joy, my fault again :P
<cbx33> I wanted to thank you for my assignments....
<cbx33> they got me started in python
<pygi> heh, no need to thank me :)
<cbx33> of course there is :D
<cbx33> brb
<pygi> cbx33, there is a release already ? :P
<pygi> ergh, whats happening with bzr mirroring? :-/
<cbx33> pygi, it's because it's using knits and not weaves apprently
<pygi> cbx33, ah
<cbx33> new vs old format
<pygi> they should fix that :P
<cbx33> apparently they will ina a few days
<cbx33> knits is significaly faster and smaller
<pygi> cbx33, gimme package of gisomount? :)
<pygi> I see it's already working :P
<cbx33> of course
<cbx33> you just have to create the /media/vcdrom1 - /media/vcdrom5 dirs manually
<pygi> cbx33, that no good :)
<cbx33> it will do that automatically soon
<pygi> application has to do it :P
<cbx33> well, I was thinking it should be done in packaging
<cbx33> but LaserJock and I are discussing the best way to implement it
<pygi> btw. congrats on your first python project :)
<cbx33> thank you
<pygi> cbx33, :)
<Burgundavia> hey Amaranth, read the scroll back for ogra and I speaking about your soc project
<cbx33> nn #edubuntu
<bddebian> Hello
<jeffwaddell> Hello??
<bit_doidao> hello all! i have some little child, and would like to create something like a user, with all stuffs that edubuntu provide us. how can i dow it?
<bit_doidao> im using ubuntu dapper right know
<bit_doidao> just apt-get install edubuntu-desktop?
<jeffwaddell> I'm not sure, about dapper as I don't have it in front of me, however it seems that you are just asking how to create a user?
<bddebian> bit_doidao: I believe that should work
<bit_doidao> jeffwaddell, not only a user, a user with all the edubuntu artwork, programs etc, so when my child ask me to use the computer, im gonna give him the edubuntu user and password ;)
<jeffwaddell> bit_doidao...ahh I see.  I believe that you will need to do the apt-get mentioned and also create a user...
<bit_doidao> yes, im installing anyway. lets see what happens. ill have to create the user and put the artwork and edit the icons, right?
<jeffwaddell> I don't know if the edubuntu packages give you the option of doing that when creating the user or not...
<bit_doidao> yeah. im making some contacts, and i am planning to install the edubuntu on a school near my company
<bit_doidao> i live in brazil. do you know some tutorials to install edubuntu for this situation? (students will have login and password)
<jeffwaddell> have you looked at the cookbook yet?
<bit_doidao> just going into wikis...
<bit_doidao> only have infos about ltsp server
<jeffwaddell> looks like it's not there or not existing yet...I'll have to look some more..
<bit_doidao> hummm, im gonna study this. this school, near my company, have good hardware, so, ill thiking about a samba controlling the /homes and auth, and a way to create users for basic and advanced, basic will be for very little childs, and advanced for 12+
<jeffwaddell> perhaps you could document your process as you go through it so we can see what needs to be clearer
<bit_doidao> jeffwaddell, certainly im gonna do that!
<jeffwaddell> awesome
<bit_doidao> tomorrow im gonna contact the lady from this school again and confirm the installation. but first im gonna read some samba tutorials on how to do it, if i have troubles, im going right here :P
<jeffwaddell> hopefully you will find help here...you are welcome to email me at jefferydouglaswaddell@gmail.com if you need to
<bit_doidao> owk, bookmarked!
<bit_doidao> you know this stuff about schooltool too?
<bit_doidao> ok, i need to go. see you!
<jeffwaddell> bye
<jeffwaddell> need to go myself...later
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<lucasvo> omg
<lucasvo> my pc just killed nautilus :(
<lucasvo> it is using too much memory
<lucasvo> something went wrong in last update
<lucasvo> where is the edubuntu testing page?
<highvoltage> lucasvo: i think it's https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Testing/CurrentEdubuntu?highlight=%28testing%29
<lucasvo>  ty highvoltage 
<cbx33> good morning #edubuntu
<highvoltage> good morning cbx33 
<cbx33> hey highvoltage howz it going
<highvoltage> i think it's going well.
<cbx33> good good
<highvoltage> you good too?
<pygi> hey cbx33, highvoltage 
<lucasvo> ah today is a stupid day
<lucasvo> it's rainy
<lucasvo> my backup didn't work
<lucasvo> my system crashed
<Burgundavia> ogra: can you take a look at this very wierd comment? http://trends.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=56487&cid=127031
<Burgundavia> ogra: the "didn't experience.." one, point 2 and 3
<cbx33> yeh I'm really good
<lucasvo> at least the edubuntu install went fine :)
<cbx33> lucasvo, today is a stupid day here too
<cbx33> I have to reinstall a windows pc
<cbx33> blleeughh
<lucasvo> I hate doing backups
<lucasvo> I think I'll just buy swiss vault
<pygi> lucasvo, whats wrong with backups? :)
<lucasvo> pygi: I always do something wrong
<cbx33> ping ogra 
<pygi> lucasvo, you'll have a rocking backup solution (and distaster recovery system) ready for edgy, so why worries :)
<pygi> disaster*
<lucasvo> pygi: cool
<pygi> lucasvo, that is, I hope at least you'll have it :P
<ogra> lucasvo, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Current at the bottom
<lucasvo> http://pastebin.com/744435
<lucasvo> totem crsheds when I load movies I made with istanbul
<ogra> cbx33, pong
<cbx33> hi ogra 
<cbx33> got time for a python quickie....
<cbx33> in your excellent code
<ogra> lucasvo, take byzanz, istanbul is known to have issues
<cbx33> how can i get it so when i try to close the gtk object...ie with destroy.....it pops up a message box first
<cbx33> and depending on that output it decides whether to destroy it or not
<cbx33> kinda like a are you sure...yes/no
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<lucasvo> lol editing a GIF with 1000 frames is fun in gimp
<pygi> lucasvo, hehe :)
<cbx33> yikes :p
<lucasvo> I needed to delete 500frames
<lucasvo> not being able to delete multiple layers in gimp is a little drwawback 
<lucasvo> :)
<ogra> implement it then :P
<ogra> its opensource ;)
<ogra> cbx33, call a function that first shows the popup instead of destroy ...
<lucasvo> well, I think it was the work worth
<cbx33> ogra, that's the part I'm having trouble with
<cbx33> in glade, what is the signal for the X button being clicked on.
<cbx33> i can't use destroy as the handler.
<ogra> create a new function and call that from the signal handler
<cbx33> so like instead of -----    destroy - on_exit
<cbx33> I would create a new gtk window signal?
<cbx33> that's the problem i have, the signal that triggers the funtion
<cbx33> i can write the function no problem, but it's how it's called I'm having trouble with
<cbx33> all the programs I've seen use the destroy signal
<cbx33> there seems to be no close button in the gtk window signals list
<cbx33> brb
<ogra> do it in python, not in glade 
<ogra> (i.e. dont use the glade handler, look at my code (doesnt matter which app) how i use destroy)
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> i tried that...:p - it said there wasn't a close_button property
<cbx33> but I'll look at it again
<cbx33> thanx ogra 
<cbx33> w00t I got it ogra 
<pygi> congrats cbx33 
<cbx33> :D
<awdrg321> hi guys, long time since my last visit to any irc channel...
<awdrg321> anyway good work on the edubuntu
<awdrg321> i have 3 problems that you might be able to help...
<cbx33> awdrg321, shoot
<awdrg321> i burnd a copy to my little brother (10yo)
<awdrg321> so he will get to know linux
<cbx33> nice
<awdrg321> and he keeps calling me from downsterss
<awdrg321> is there anyway to set the vnc working on default on the liveCD
<awdrg321> like mastering...
<cbx33> awdrg321, probably yes
<cbx33> but you'd have to remove some components
<cbx33> as the cd is pretty cramped
<awdrg321> the remote desktop is already there its just dont working on startup by default ( for security i guess )
<cbx33> yes i would imagine so
<cbx33> ogra, would know about that one
<cbx33> so you just want it enabled by default?
<awdrg321> yes
<cbx33> I'm sure it's possible. I've not remastered an ubuntu based cd
<cbx33> but I have remastered knoppix...
<cbx33> there is a howto on the wiki.
<cbx33> but there may be an easier option, ogra any ideas here?
<cbx33> awdrg321, what's the next question
<awdrg321> the nest 2... :)
<pygi> cbx33, the howto on wiki is outdated
<cbx33> pygi, is it?
<pygi> cbx33, yup
<awdrg321> first i cant seems to upload anything from firefox (webmail and etc')
<cbx33> pygi, do we have an updated one
<pygi> cbx33, no :-/
<cbx33> sheesh
<cbx33> man i need that if devenix is going to go to ubuntu
<pygi> awdrg321, hm, slow connection?
<cbx33> awdrg321, what happens
<awdrg321> no, no...
<cbx33> proxy issue?
<awdrg321> something very wierd
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> tell us
<pygi> cbx33, o joy, we have to fly on blind here :P
<cbx33> ;)
<ogra> awdrg321, its a gconf key, look for /desktop/gnome/remote_access there you can set the defaults for vino (gnomes built in vnc server)
<cbx33> thanks ogra 
<cbx33> do you have details on howto remaster a dapper live cd?
<awdrg321> i went on adding  file in gmail and it just wont upload it...
<awdrg321> thank ogra....
<pygi> awdrg321, that might happen because of number of reasons :-/
<awdrg321> i know... 
<awdrg321> and its frustrating because im new to thius and i cant solve it
<cbx33> hmmm
<pygi> awdrg321, what file type are you trying to upload?
<pygi> gmail doesnt allow some filetypes
<awdrg321> i know... so i tried it with a differnt webmail...
<awdrg321> and nothing....
<awdrg321> BTW it was gif so i dont think thats the problem...
<pygi> what connection do you have and what are you trying to upload?
<cbx33> hmmm...odd
<pygi> *filesize*
<pygi> cbx33, indeed
<awdrg321> DSL via router
<cbx33> what about other outbound traffic
<cbx33> can you ftp?
<awdrg321> didnt try that....
<awdrg321> but i can go and give it try...
<awdrg321> just a sec
<awdrg321> well.... never mind... its working now...
<awdrg321> the last thing, how can help on translating to hebrew?
* cbx33 just found the north bridge heatsink hanging off his computer :/
<ogra> awdrg321, have a look at launchpad.net
<ogra> (for translations that is)
<awdrg321> thanks...
<mhz> cbx33: hi there
<mhz> cbx33: r u there?
<juliux> hi highvoltage 
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<mhz> hi juliux 
<mhz> hi highvoltage 
<highvoltage> hi juliux 
<highvoltage> hey mon
<mhz> highvoltage: IMHO, 'Using Edubuntu' at www.e.o is not as complete as ESA in wiki.e.o
<highvoltage> mhz: cbx33 edited it
<highvoltage> mhz: i haven't compared the two yet, to be honest
<mhz> and, I also have mhz AT ubuntu DOT com (so we all look more similar)
<highvoltage> mhz: although, it htink the wiki one is meant to extract from from printed pamphlets, etc
<highvoltage> while the edubuntu.org one is web formatted, from what i understand
<mhz> highvoltage: could you change tecnocimiento DOT cl for ubuntu DOT com, please? This way also, people wont be telling "oh, he is promoting tecnocimiento"
<highvoltage> mhz: then they'll say "oh, he is promoting ubuntu"!
<highvoltage> and even if they say you're promoting it? so what?
<highvoltage> where do you want me to change it, btw?
<cbx33> esa at wiki will be dropped hortly
<cbx33> shotly
<cbx33> brb
<mhz> highvoltage: okis, I'll pass my observations to cbx33, because the site tells people they can get help in their own language but it does not specify where :)
<highvoltage> hmmm
<cbx33> mhz mail me please....then ican work on it latre
<mhz> cbx33: sur, man, no prob.
<mhz> highvoltage: http://www.edubuntu.org/Community
<mhz> Spanish: MauricioHernandez mhz@tecnocimiento.cl
<highvoltage> mhz: ok
<mhz> highvoltage: thx.
<mhz> BTW, did I mention the website looks cool?
<mhz> it does!
<highvoltage> heh. thanks. it still needs a lot of work, but i'm also quite satisfied with how far its come.
<highvoltage> mhz: changed
<mhz> highvoltage: roger that ;)
<mhz> highvoltage: I will translate the whole site content into spanish. Any one else doing it? (know of?)
<mhz> highvoltage: and... will drupal let us identify browser lang. settings?
* mhz_breakfast BRB
<highvoltage> mhz_breakfast: will talk to you about that later, i have an idea, but need to run too
<mhz_breakfast> okis
<mhz_breakfast> c ya
<highvoltage> ogra: on the daily build for xubunut, the ltsp chroot fails, i mentioned it in #xubuntu, but they say it's not a critical bug, so i'll just file a bug in launchpad for that so long
<ogra> i bet its the same prob we have with expert install
<ogra> ill do one during the next tests
<ogra> to see where/why its failing
<highvoltage> cool, thanks! :)
<highvoltage> ogra: it's right that i file a bug? or should i leave that to you?
<ogra> no, file it please
<ogra> also could someone file a bug about the missing cursor theme in edubuntu, so i have something to point mdz at ?
<highvoltage> ok. any logs that i should attach?
<highvoltage> ok, i can do that while i'm there
<ogra> /var/log/installer/messages if it contains anything
<highvoltage> ogra: what would the package be called for the gnome-cursor-theme?
<ogra> edubuntu-artwork
<ogra> "missing the cursor theme" or something
<highvoltage> ok
<jsgotangco> hi guys
<ogra> hey jsgAWAY 
<omega7> i was able to use the netboot directory on the cd to install ubuntu using pxe.  is that possible for edubuntu?  I have an old laptop without a cdrom drive.
<ogra> nope, there is no edubuntu netboot installer
<ogra> you can install ubuntu and install the edubuntu metapackages on top (will need some manual work to set up ltsp if you want that)
<omega7> alright
<omega7> thx
<spacey> highvoltage: ping
<pygi> jsgotangco, poke :)
<jsgotangco> hi
<pygi> you have time?
<pygi> we need to discuss your students work :)
<highvoltage> spacey: pingback
<jsgotangco> pygi: gimme an hour if you could, just finishing up some code (just read JaneW email as well)
<pygi> jsgotangco, oki, no problem :)
<spacey> highvoltage: how do you link from one page to another within drupal?
<jsgotangco> a URL
<spacey> whole URL? or relative?
<jsgotangco> a relative should work
<spacey> i figured drupal had something special like wiki's have
<pygi> spacey, will you finish your chapters/articles in like 6 hours, or should I write them?
<jsgotangco> well i think the system was configured with modrewerite
<highvoltage> spacey: i link to relative url usually
<spacey> pygi: i have no real idea what to write for the remaining chapters
<pygi> spacey, ah,ok, I'll write it
<spacey> i guess you can scrap the security chapter
<spacey> it will be very incomplete in any case
<spacey> or too difficult
<pygi> spacey, no worries, me and HedgeMage will finish all
<spacey> pygi: what would you put int he security chap?
<pygi> spacey, I am not sure, but I'll think of something
<pygi> tunneling through SSH and such
<spacey> pygi: like i said you can also decide to scrap it
<spacey> pygi: i don't think thats really useful for setting up edubuntu
<spacey> pygi: i can create a spare hour today for the cookbook, if you have some chapters which you would like me to proofread
<pygi> spacey, anything you could proofread is fine
<pygi> which is up ATM
<spacey> ok
<spacey> will do
<spacey> highvoltage: how did you get rid of that login box?
<highvoltage> spacey: i think it's at the 'blocks' configuration
<mhz_breakfast> re
<spacey> highvoltage: that thing that you have to pass a variable to show it? else i don't know how to login
<mhz> highvoltage: r u back?
<highvoltage> spacey: you can also visit login by going to url /user
<highvoltage> mhz: kind of :)
<mhz> highvoltage: when would you be?
* mhz prefers to wait until more relaxed hour
<highvoltage> mhz: ~in an hour or so, when i leave work. things are a bit hectic at work today
<mhz> no worries, highvoltage, my mon. I can wait. Good luck at work stuff.
<mhz> ping me when you can talk about translations for edubuntu ;)
<jsgotangco> pygi: pong
<pygi> jsgotangco, haven't you already done "pong" stuff? :)
<jsgotangco> pygi: what are we going to discuss?
<spacey> highvoltage: ah thats nice
<pygi> jsgotangco, once your student is here, we have to discuss "Pyro" :)
<jsgotangco> ahhh
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: that's a bug???
* jsgotangco didn't even notice we have a cursor theme
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: yep
<highvoltage> ogra: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/edubuntu-artwork/+bug/47304
<ogra> highvoltage, ah, thatnks i'll add the bug # to DapperReleaseRadar,
<highvoltage> ok
<ogra> we wont get it on the CD ... but into -updates
<ogra> since nobody noticed or filed it during the CD tests it seems not noticeable enough
<highvoltage> ogra: did the updates used to include fixes like that, or just security fixes?
<ogra> -security has the security fixes
<highvoltage> ah, was there an -updates before?
<ogra> -updates is for special purpose ... 
<ogra> yep
<ogra> since warty
<highvoltage> nice. will things like firefox 2.0, etc be available in updates once its released?
<ogra> nope, never
<highvoltage> hmmm... i didn't no about the -updates...
<ogra> only stuff that doesnt require big testing runs or breaqks dependencys
<highvoltage> ok
<ogra> ff 2.0 would require to rebuild half the worls
<ogra> s/s/d
<pygi> what about ff 3.0? :)
<ogra> egdy+1 -updates you mean ? 
<highvoltage> pygi: ff 3.0 won't be called ff anymore
<highvoltage> ogra: no, i think you understood my question correctly, and answered it too :)
<pygi> highvoltage, That dynamite thingy? :)
<highvoltage> pygi: heh
<pygi> what? :P
<ryan_rousseau> jsgotangco, pygi: hello
<pygi> ryan_rousseau, hi
<pygi> ryan_rousseau, may you please explain the problem ? :)
<ryan_rousseau> Well, the remote object module I'm using, Pyro, is currently in the universe, and it seems that getting it upgraded to the main repository may be difficult
<jsgotangco> well that's what we're about to ask as well
<jsgotangco> (actually pygi is more interested on it, i didnt notice it till he pinged me about it)
<ogra> ryan_rousseau, just make sure its licensing isnt insane and it doesnt depend on too much stuff, its not hard to get sane stuff to main
<pygi> ogra, it's not sane, thats problem :)
<pygi> security-wise
<jsgotangco> oh
<ogra> what is not sane about it ? 
<ogra> can you be more specific ? 
<pygi> ryan_rousseau, you have that link? 
<ryan_rousseau> http://pyro.sourceforge.net/manual/9-security.html
<ogra> sadly we're in the middle of preparing the final dapper isos, so nobody will have much time to talk the next 48h
<ryan_rousseau> it says there's the possibility for security problems, but I don't know of any cases where there have been problems
<ryan_rousseau> supposedly it's being used in a banking system in Spain
<ogra> doesnt look worse then the avahi-daemon
<ogra> s/then/than/
<ogra> i.e. if yu open a network port to the outside world, thats indeed a *potential* security risk
<ogra> but do you need network functionallity for your project at all ? 
<pygi> yup, he does
<ogra> what for ? #
<ogra> that was the quizzling thing, right ? 
<ryan_rousseau> The plan is for teachers to host the objects on their computer, allowing students to connect to them through Pyro
<ryan_rousseau> right, plus an activity manager
<ogra> can you use something like tls with pyro so the traffic gets encrypted ? 
<ogra> then it wouldnt be a prob
<ryan_rousseau> yes, Pyro has ssl support
<ogra> else i'd rather fear the students to hack into the resulst 
<ogra> (not generally security )
<mhz> how about UserModeLinux?
<ryan_rousseau> right, I was thinking of not storing the answers in the actual object
<ogra> thats fine, try to incorporate tls/ssl into it and you are fine then
<ogra> movin pyro to main shouldnt be a prob 
<ryan_rousseau> but just have their answers sent back to the teacher, then do the checking separately
<jsgotangco> sorry i was talking to my mom (real big issue at home atm)
<ogra> mhz, what about it ? 
<ogra> we dont have it
<ryan_rousseau> jsgotangco, I hope everythings ok
<mhz> oh, then never mind
<jsgotangco> ryan_rousseau: so yeah, ditto on ogra's suggestion too, i'd rather have do the ssl route since Pyro supports
<ryan_rousseau> awesome, thanks very much for the clarification guys.  I'll continue working on my specs as is
<jsgotangco> ryan_rousseau: expect an email from me later (for formality though)
<ogra> ryan_rousseau, pitti would be the person to talk to about security and main inclusion but he's very busy currently
<ryan_rousseau> ogra, I understand, with the big release and all
<jsgotangco> ryan_rousseau: if you got an updated spec, i would appreciate it and have it added in my todo
<ryan_rousseau> how do I add to your todo?
<jsgotangco> err i mean i will add it myself in my emacs-planner heh
<jsgotangco> sorry for that
<ryan_rousseau> ah ok
<ogra> fly to asia and bring a pencil :P
<ryan_rousseau> haha
<ryan_rousseau> I'm currently drafting a detailed spec for each app
<ryan_rousseau> wiki.edubuntu.org/Amenity
<jsgotangco> ogra: will these lang uploads fit?
<ogra> jsgotangco, according to pitti they will
<jsgotangco> ok
<ogra> i'm scared myself, belive me :)
<jsgotangco> i saw -zh
<ryan_rousseau> jsgotangco, wiki.edubuntu.org/Pike is still under heavy drafting
<jsgotangco> *shudder*
<ogra> he just worked down the list 
<jsgotangco> ryan_rousseau: thanks
<ryan_rousseau> jsgotangco, thank you
<ogra> to sad the shipit CD will only have english
<jryer> Where can I find educational software for edubuntu in Spanish?
<jsgotangco> jryer: it usually depends on the apps if they have spanish stranslations
<jryer> Is there an ISO CD with Spanish software?
<mhz> jryer: hi
<mhz> jryer: not yet
<mhz> jryer: most applications have spanish as a translated set
<mhz> you can get it in spanish once your environment is set to it
<mhz> jryer: anything in particular you are lookin for?
<ogra> jryer, depends, the dapper liveCD (with installer) has full support for spanish, but it only installs the workstation version
<jryer> We are teaching adolocentes 15-20 yrs old...just wanted to look around or download an entire CD
<mhz> jryer: and when installing edubuntu-install iso, then you can immediately set your env. for spanish and get lang. support from internet
<mhz> jryer: soy de chile, y tu?
<ogra> jryer, the install CD only has space for english, so if you dont want the ltsp server we install from the install CD then the liveCD should be fine for you
<jryer> mhz, That is another problem...we don't have internet in the labs. Soy de ee.uu. pero trabajo aca en la paz con adolocentes en el alto
<mhz> save children?
<jryer> Yes, Save the Children
<mhz> jryer: i just replied an email to seth :D
<ogra> jryer, do you have the opportunity to diownload and use a DVD ? the DVD has all langpacks as well as the live and the install isos on it
<mhz> jryer: after dapper release, i suppose I'll get some funds to work on the customization for a Edubuntu version for older hardware. this will be in spanish and have xubuntu as default and gnome as option :D
<mhz> jryer: this will focous on latinamerican needs
<jsgotangco> brb
<jryer> It looks like the edubuntu site is down because we cannot download anything. Another obstacle is that the computers in the labs do not have DVD functinality
<ogra> thats what i was suspecting :/
<mhz> ogra: else, I may find some ways to send you a DVD so you get all at once, in the meantime.
<mhz> ogra sorry
<ogra> heh
<mhz> jryer:  else, I may find some ways to send you a DVD so you get all at once, in the meantime.
<ogra> but i'd take a DVD if you'd send me one ;)
<mhz> lol
<ogra> mhz, if he has no reader that wont help
<ajayc> ahh i see a op
<mhz> ogra: sure! you'll get a t-shirt from our proj. at least!!
<ajayc> i worte a mail to some ubuntu official
<ogra> ajayc, about what ? 
<ajayc> that there were no op here
<ogra> we dont want to use ops here 
<ajayc> :D
* ogra throws a look at highvoltage
<ajayc> highvoltage, hi
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<highvoltage> hi ajayc 
* highvoltage catches up
<ogra> ajayc, as in all ubuntu channels we dont want ops constantly but we have a list of people that can op if needed (for emergency)
<mhz> jryer: hmmm, if seth comes to chile for june 20th, I will provide cd's in spanish for him :D
<ajayc> ok ogra 
<ogra> i think i explained it to you before :)
<highvoltage> ajayc: i think i received a mail from you. sorry if i haven't responded yet.
<jryer> mhz, if we could get a copy of DVD that would be great but if we could get CD with Spanish support, even better. We want to do a network install but not sure how it will work because of broken links to instructions. Will figure what we can do in the meantime
<ajayc> what was that?
<highvoltage> ajayc: ogra, JaneW and I (and some others) can get opps whenever we want
<ajayc> who made u op?
<highvoltage> chanserv
<ogra> ajayc, the freenode staff and chanserv
<ajayc> oh cool
<jryer> mhz, we are talking about taking our team of 3-4 to chile because june 20th just happens to be during our one-week break... Seth will keep you updated.
<mhz> jryer: hmmm, my only prob. before june 20 th is lack of time and too much stuff to prepare for the event. I doubt I can customize a solution before june 20th. :(  but... let me think of ways.
<JaneW> and op obsession is so last millenium!
<JaneW> (I am not actually here...)
<ogra> hey JaneW :)
<JaneW> hey ogra
<mhz> jryer: that would be awsome!!
<jryer> mhz, no problem...we are just using Windows in the meantime.
* ogra hugs virtual non attending JaneW 
* JaneW is going to kata box in a minute
<JaneW> heh yay
<mhz> jryer: then "yes,, problem" :D
<JaneW> highvoltage: I am coming in on wednesday
<JaneW> would have been there today but my car is STILL not fixed properly
<highvoltage> JaneW: great. are you coming in for the farewell?
<JaneW> the autoelectrician broke it
<mhz> JaneW: highvoltage has got a car
<JaneW> highvoltage: farewell?
<JaneW> mhz: he lives on the other side of the world from me
<cbx33> hey JaneW 
<mhz> farewell...that soon???
<highvoltage> JaneW: we're having a farewell for all the people who's leaving TSF
<JaneW> hey cbx33 
<JaneW> highvoltage: oh!
<JaneW> highvoltage: cool, well then I should be there
<JaneW> highvoltage: what time?
<highvoltage> JaneW: an e-mail was sent to 12plein, didn't you get it?
<JaneW> late?
<JaneW> oh I haven;t checked that folder today...
<jryer> mhz, gotta run, we are preparing for classes tomorrow. Appreciate the help and look fwd to hearing more about what you are doing in chile!
<JaneW> have to scroll up to see it
<ryan_rousseau> I'm guessing that Ubuntu's openssl package doesn't have RC5 or IDEA compiled since they're copyrighted?
<ogra> highvoltage, bah, and i cant attend 
<JaneW> oh yay, not late, cos I can;t stay into evening, my Dad will be in town
<mhz> jryer: okis, thx, good luck
* ogra cries
<JaneW> highvoltage: well I guess I can break my news there
<highvoltage> JaneW: it's at 12:30
<JaneW> highvoltage: SUSHI! *Y*U*M*
<mhz> highvoltage: UTC?
<mhz> :D
<JaneW> 10:30 UTC
<mhz> highvoltage: streaming! streaming!
<JaneW> bye homies, it's time to sweat.
<highvoltage> mhz: heh. our bandwidth here will never survive it!
<mhz> :(
<highvoltage> yeah
<JaneW> highvoltage: seen my blog. I have one of Madonna's bras!
<highvoltage> bye homies, i need to go home too. getting late :)
<JaneW> from an auction
<JaneW> heh
<JaneW> bye
<highvoltage> JaneW: heh, i'll look later tonight (not sure if i want to though)
<highvoltage> bye!
<spacey> bleh, switch user doesn't work with LTSP
<spacey> and still got that Sleep option in the logout window as well :o
<mhz> spacey: what you mean?
<spacey> if you use LTSP 4.2 on dapper :)
<ogra> spacey, in gnome ? 
<ogra> ahh
<spacey> yeah
<ogra> *phew*
* mhz relaxes
<spacey> especially that sleep button is quite nasty :)
<ogra> please avoid such statements until thursdaya if you dont want me to have a heart attack !
<spacey> ogra: sorry :D
<mhz> lol
<ogra> spacey, gnome-session saks gdm if a user is logged in locally or not
<ogra> seems thats a gdm bug
<ogra> *asks
* mhz rephrases spacey's:  bleh, switch user doesn't work with normal LTSP (not Edubuntu!)
<ogra> thats why we dont have to care about it with ldm ;) it simply doesnt answer such requests
<spacey> i think its in lunchpad somewhere
<spacey> more people encountered it
<ogra> mhz, "normal" ltsp == ubuntu ltsp in this channel
<ogra> ;)
* spacey searches it
<mhz> ogra: :D
<mhz> yeah
<spacey> muecow (crappy name btw)
<ogra> ask jammcq to change it :)
<ogra> not an ubuntu creation
<spacey> maybe you should call it utsp or something, to avoid confusion, but it might increase confusion as well ;)
<spacey> ubuntu terminal server power
<ogra> heh
<ogra> i'll just ask jammcq to stop providing an ubuntu version of ltsp.org :P
* ogra puts on an evil face
* pygi spreads a rumour about Student control panel not working at all
<ogra> pygi, !
<pygi> ogra, yes? :)
<ogra> stop spreading rumors that may kill me
<ogra> :)
<jsgotangco> lol
<spacey> hehe
<spacey> ogra: that would be evil :p in some cases "classic" LTSP is more desirable :)
<spacey> but i think they should put up some big note on their ubuntu page, that the ubuntu ltsp is set up differently
<ogra> spacey, just joking...
<mhz> pygi: what student control panel?
<spacey> *pwef* :P
<ogra> (i have to give back some of the evilness i experience here ;) )
<spacey> hehe :D
<pygi> mhz, the one we ship in universe?
<ogra> mhz, sudo apt-get install student-control-panel 
<mhz> duh! /me had no idea
<spacey> i should test that, didn't know it was already there
* mhz slaps once again
* pygi hopes to have a rocking version ready for edgy
<spacey> this one doesn't rock?
<pygi> spacey, it does, but the next version will rock even more ;)
<pygi> (at least I hope so)
<spacey> ah :p
<ogra> it doesnt *rock* it does only some basics
<spacey> i guess it doesn't work with classic ltsp? ;)
<ogra> and its only for ubuntu ltsp
<ogra> since its written for ssh based connections
* mhz will need to reboot :(
<jsgotangco> arggh i knew eating that chocolate bar was a bad idea
<cbx33> hey highvoltage 
<mhz> re
<mhz> ogra: any url where I can get more info related to student-control-panel?
<mhz> cache show provides bare minimum
<ogra> install it and test it ;)
<mhz> ogra: done it
<ogra> mhz, TeschersPet has the list of suggestions etc
<mhz> but I have no clients to boot from right now :)
<mhz> oooh, okis
<ogra> but its not specific to s-c-p 
<ogra> i.e. there is no further info about it on that page
<ogra> only a collection of possible ideas
<mhz> ogra: anyways, in the meantime, it start :)  and gives me a couple of lines of error which I suppose are generated because no clients are found
<ogra> might be, i dont have the time to look at it now
<mhz> no worries
<mhz> I understand
<ogra> (and its unlikely i'll have any time until thursday)
<mhz> just wanted to tell you "good idea and I guess it will work just fine"
<highvoltage> hey cbx33 
<highvoltage> ogra: have you experienced any weirdness with the edubuntu gtk theme? i see red spots over my buttone now and again. it looks sick :)
<cbx33> highvoltage, I've experienced that too
<cbx33> thought it was just my rubbish graphics card
<cbx33> and over scrollbars too?
<cbx33> but from my experience it's ubuntu toio
<highvoltage> cbx33: i haven't seen it on the scrollbars yet
<mhz> highvoltage: i have not had such issue in GNOME nor in XFCE
<mhz> cbx33: what is you email address (to send my 2 questions regarding ESA) unless we use IRC?
* highvoltage logs a bug on launchpad
<cbx33> petesavage@ubuntu.com
<cbx33> mhz, I will most likely be here a little later on
<cbx33> want to work on th wiki some more
<mhz> cbx33: so, what you prefer?
<cbx33> email them
<mhz> okis
<cbx33> and we can discuss later if I'm there
<mhz> sure
<cbx33> if not I'll reply 
<cbx33> I'm also hoping to get gisomount to a beta state today
<yurtboy> questions about the launchpad cookbook link 
<yurtboy> when someone gets a chance
<cbx33> shoot
<yurtboy> thanks
<yurtboy> this link
<yurtboy> https://launchpad.net/products/edubuntu.cookbook
<yurtboy> sorry this link
<yurtboy> https://launchpad.net/products/edubuntu.cookbook/pre-alpha
<yurtboy> points left to the cookbook Home
<yurtboy> but the link is on the right
<yurtboy> I think
<yurtboy> anyways being an enduser
<yurtboy> it was a bit odd
<cbx33> I'll pass that onto to the cookbook peeps
<cbx33> thanks yurtboy 
<yurtboy> sure hope to be more help soon
<yurtboy> hey has anyone (yes ogra I asked this before ( -: ) Had luck with local devices?  I am going to try fuse
<yurtboy> just wondering
<cbx33> whois AliasVegas
<pygi> cbx33, what ahppened with cookbook?
<cbx33> ^^^^ about the link
<cbx33> I havn't had time to investigate
<cbx33> gotta cook dinner :p
<cbx33> bbl
<pygi> I dont know what all those links in launchpad are
<pygi> no meanings
<cbx33> ah
<pygi> k, bon apetit
<pygi> none of this links are relevant
<ogra> pygi, can you fix that then ? 
<ogra> (since you took over the cookbook)
<pygi> ogra, how? I have no powers over other's people products, teams, etc
<ogra> you should have the administration rights for it, its the core part of cookbooks inclusion in the distro
<ogra> the LP links need to be ok (especially the bzr ones) to build the package in edgy)
<highvoltage> i think we need to ask launchpad administrators to give the rights to pygi 
<pygi> highvoltage, there are a lot of teams and products related to cookbook :-/
<ogra> just talk to the admins that are there now for the cookbook
<pygi> None are good :-/
<mhz> cbx33: nock nock...."follow the white rabbit"
<ogra> please contact the owner of that page to get it transferred
<pygi> ogra, ergh, all of them? (considering there is a lot of them :-/ )
<highvoltage> pygi: i would talk to the people who currently own them, and delete all the old groups one by one, and make a new one
<ogra> sure
<pygi> highvoltage, indeed
<ogra> at least weed out th eold cruft
<pygi> can products ownership be tranfered tho?
<ogra> the LP page is (from a dev POV) the most immportant part 
<pygi> ogra, indeed
<pygi> but I am not sure can product be tranfered to other owner
* mhz listens to Molotov - Cerdo while translating (from wiki) into spanish
<ogra> and if the supermirror is up in edgy, there needs to be a valid bzr source where it can pull from
<mhz> cbx33: BTW, is ESA supposed to be UsingEdubunt? or they are 2 diff things?
* mhz forgot to ask that in email :(
<pygi> highvoltage, could you please ask in #launchpad can they delete they product?
<ogra> mhz, ESA builds rockets and UsingEdubuntu is a helpfile :) so yes, they are different ;)
<pygi> I'll ask in the team to put me as owner
<mhz> ogra: now I got the idea then
<mhz> thx
<ogra> ;)
<yurtboy> just to be clear about my cookbook comment this link https://launchpad.net/products/edubuntu.cookbook/pre-alpha pulls up a page that then sais "For a look at the current cookbook, click on the link to the home page in the LEFTmenu." But that was hard to find and I clicked "Product:  Edubuntu Cookbook" on the RIGHT that seemed to work
<pygi> yurtboy, that page is supposed to be erased
<yurtboy> okay
<mhz> highvoltage: good to talk about translations now?
<ogra> yurtboy, the cookbook is gone through several hands, so the LP entry is a bit messy
<highvoltage> pygi: sure, ok if it happens tomorrow?
<highvoltage> mhz: sure
<pygi> highvoltage, ofcourse
<pygi> highvoltage, thanks :)
<highvoltage> mhz: Bluekuja is also busy with spanish translation
<ogra> highvoltage, as long as it happens at all it can even happen next month ;)
<pygi> ogra, finally we'll have cookbook for this release
<highvoltage> pygi: i'll add it to my ever growing evolution todo list ;)
<mhz> highvoltage: okis, I have asked this in the ML and also got some suggestions here but I have still not a clear wise idea
<ogra> pygi, yep :)
<highvoltage> ogra: heh
<pygi> highvoltage, thanks :)
<pygi> ogra, I am just sorry you didnt had time for LTSP part, but there is always "tommorow" :)
<ogra> highvoltage, if the LP admins cause probs feel free to point them to me
<mhz> highvoltage: there is the Edubuntu wiki info (helpful pages) + the drupal.
<pygi> hehe, ogra is powerful :)
<highvoltage> ogra: heh. ok. i've discovered a while back that it helps to be good friends with them ;)
<ogra> pygi, nah, but i can talk to my colleagues ;)
<mhz> highvoltage: So far, I have some translations in Tecnocimiento's page and others in Ubuntu-cl.org wiki
<pygi> ogra, I know, was joking :)
<highvoltage> mhz: yes, i've though of having an it.edubuntu.org, and es.edubuntu.org
<mhz> highvoltage: and a couple in wiki.edubuntu.org/TheEnglishPage/es
<highvoltage> mhz: both with complete drupal copies, with translated content
<ogra> highvoltage, uuh 47336 is weird
<mhz> highvoltage: okis, that would solve/answer my questions for drupal. Any thoughts about wiki ones?
<pygi> damn, I cant seem to find his mail
<pygi> guess I'll have to catch him on jabber
<highvoltage> mhz: i suppose they'll move along to the new wiki. how that will work, i'm not entirely sure. i think the docteam vision will clear up a bit when it actualy happens :)
<pygi> ergh, there is mail :-/
<highvoltage> ogra: it is weird, isn't it? it doesn't happen when i select any other gtk theme though.
<mhz> highvoltage: hmmm, lost me
<ogra> highvoltage, do you have an ubuntu handy to compare ? 
<highvoltage> mhz: docteam is moving all the documentation to a new wiki. so all docs will be on the doc wiki, and the current wiki will be used for everything else except docs.
<ogra> its the same engine ubuntu uses
<mhz> highvoltage: ahhhhh, finally!
<highvoltage> ogra: nope :( i only have xubuntu and edubuntu
<mhz> highvoltage: any date for that? (yeah, of course I can ask in -doc :D)
<ogra> well, to late to fix anyway
<ogra> the archive is pretty much locked
<pygi> highvoltage, k, mail about taking over the team - done
<pygi> let's hope he won't resist :)
<ogra> pygi, who owns it ? jelkner ? kjcole ? 
<pygi> kjcole
<ogra> he wont object
<highvoltage> mhz: i have no idea. i don't know if they have a date yet. might be best to ask in -doc yes
<highvoltage> pygi: resitance is futile!
<pygi> highvoltage, indeed :P
<pygi> ogra, will we be able to package the cookbook after dapper, and put in -updates?
<ogra> probably
<pygi> nice :)
<pygi> ok, I'll just stop now, I know you are busy with preparing release
<ogra> in fact i'm currently twiddling thumbs ... archive is locked and CD builds wont start before the last package is built
<yurtboy> where is a good place to ask ltsp (edubuntu) questions like hardware and other settings, I know the k12ltsp/ltsp wiki is good but some time it is not so debian ubuntu friendly
<ogra> but i have to pick up something 150km away, so i'll be out for ~2h soon
<ogra> yurtboy, here is the place :)
<pygi> yurtboy, and soon (perhaps) the Edubuntu cookbook is the place :P
<yurtboy> thanks, is sata better then say an older scsi disk?  For example a scsi with
<yurtboy> 80 - 160 mbs data transfer
<pygi> Scsi is better
<pygi> It's not all about data tranfer
<pygi> transfer*
<ogra> SATA is cheaper :)
<yurtboy> used scsi is not bad
<pygi> ogra, o joy :P
<ogra> but there are still a lot SATA controllers not supported 
<yurtboy> got a 18 gig for $35 
<yurtboy> speeds okay
<pygi> highvoltage, wanna approve me in edubuntu-doc team?
<pygi> (If I am good enough, ofcourse :P)
<highvoltage> pygi: sure
<highvoltage> yurtboy: sata is better these days, imho
<highvoltage> yurtboy: since they're cheaper, so you just buy more and stripe them
<pygi> highvoltage, thanks
<yurtboy> does it still lag like ide in handling numerous read writes????
<highvoltage> yurtboy: your stripe them over two disks and then add another double size one (or two of the same size) and mirror it over
<yurtboy> can i boot off that
<highvoltage> with linux yes, i don't know about other operating systems
<yurtboy> what other
<yurtboy> ( -:
<highvoltage> yurtboy: i'm not sure about your lag question, but yes, it does get laggy with lots of read/writes, especially when 20 users open openoffice.org at the same time
<highvoltage> yurtboy: you then run out of disk bandwidth quickly :)
<lucasvo> lucasvo@supernova:~/Desktop$ bzr branch sftp://lucas@wservices.ch/home/lucas/mercury_newsletter mercury
<lucasvo> bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: /home/lucasvo/Desktop/sftp:/lucas@wservices.ch/home/lucas/mercury_newsletter/
<lucasvo> lucasvo@supernova:~/Desktop$
<lucasvo> what's the correct URL?
<yurtboy> alright, I need to research this since I am upgrading a library install to 10 machines.  Right now I am using Fedora/LTSP but when the time comes to update I will use Edu, though I need to get local devices working which I am about to work on.
<mhz> highvoltage: then, mdke suggests I keep trasnlated wiki pages under ubuntu-cl.org. I hope users get there. So, for every english pageI translate into spanish, I'll add a link to ubuntu-cl
<highvoltage> mhz: i know you like moin a lot, we can keep the spanish edubuntu site in a moin wiki too if you want, but it might not be very consistant
<lucasvo> highvoltage: what's the ubuntu wiki running?
<highvoltage> lucasvo: moinmoin
<ogra> moin
<ogra> and moin :)
<highvoltage> :)
<lucasvo> and afterwards?
<highvoltage> moinmoin still
<highvoltage> the documentation pages will just live on its own moinmoin wiki
<lucasvo> oh, ok
<lucasvo> why moin and not mediawiki, btw?
<mhz> highvoltage: hmmm, well, I never thought of this before, but it's the first time I realize I have some conflicts of interest :D  For one, I want translations to be noticed and avaliable for edubuntu visitors. But also, I want to encourage the sleeping Chilean community who usually participate only via Forums.
<ogra> lucasvo, because php security is hell :)
<highvoltage> lucasvo: i don't think that any ubuntu stuff will ever be ran on a mediawiki ;)
<mhz> highvoltage: ohh, and finally, of course, if Chilean community does not rise in other ways, then I'd like chilean people to see Tecnocimiento's efforts to spread this. 
<highvoltage> mhz: i think that having it in drupal would be best. then we can have the same theme, same look and feel, and give the same functionality for users of all languages
<highvoltage> mhz: what do you mean?
<mhz> lucasvo: and that is due to the fact moin does not need PHP, iirc.
<lucasvo> ogra: what's the correct syntax for bzr branch? bzr branch sftp://user@sourcehost/path/to/branch destination ?
<ogra> branch is a command you only use locally 
<ogra> you want bzr get
<lucasvo> ogra: was it always like this?
<ogra> yes
<ogra> and if you used get and have the repo locally, you only use bzr pull to update
<mhz> highvoltage: oh, there are 2 things. Drupal contents I translate must be kept in drupal sure! Wiki Edubuntu pages (there's a list of suggested pages, iirc) I translate.. those are the ones I am asking about now ;)
<lucasvo> lucasvo@supernova:~/Desktop$ bzr get sftp://lucas@wservices.ch/home/lucas/mercury_newsletter mercury
<ogra> back in 2h
<lucasvo> bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: /home/lucasvo/Desktop/sftp:/lucas@wservices.ch/home/lucas/mercury_newsletter/
<lucasvo> ogra: ??
<ogra> lucasvo, #bzr, i'm a bit in a hurry
<lucasvo> ogra: 
<lucasvo> oh sorry
<ogra> or ask in 2.5h
<lucasvo> :)
<mhz> highvoltage: oh, one other thing regarding drupal site, "Related Projects" menu should have Xubuntu too, or not?
<Burgwork> mhz, no, because Xubuntu is not yet an official project
<mhz> oooh, i see, Burgwork thx.
<highvoltage> mhz: ogra is asking silbs about that today
<highvoltage> ogra: did you get a chance to go through our questions with silbs?
<mhz> highvoltage: BTW, is silbs the one to email for 'special amount of cd shipping' ?
<highvoltage> mhz: it might be her. would make sense.
<cbx33> I'm here now people
<Burgwork> highvoltage, isn't maralize doing that?
<mhz> and one last thing before I get some food.. highvoltage, any news about artwork for edubuntu cd's?
<highvoltage> Burgwork: she handles the cd distribution, but i'm not sure that she can authorise large cd orders
<cbx33> mhz, you gonna be back?
<mhz> Burgwork: hmm, could you provide me with email addresses for both of them? 
<highvoltage> mhz: i think JaneW is best to ask about that. i don't know antying about the edubuntu cd artwork, or even if it exists yet
<mhz> cbx33: I'll be here for at least next 10 minutes but I just run out of questions for highvoltage (for now) :D
<mhz> run =ran
<mhz> hmmm, JaneW wont be here until wed, maybe. :(
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I'm just about to check my mail
<cbx33> mhz, did you send that email?
<mhz> yup
<cbx33> i got it
<cbx33> ok mhz, I see your point
<yurtboy> Request: The lts.conf help page could use some examples? This link has some http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtsConf I could enter them in?
<mhz> cbx33: I am pulled out of the computer now... gotta get some food :(
<cbx33> we decided that seeing as the document was going to be printed
<mhz> cbx33: I'll be back in 40 mins
<cbx33> ok mhz speak to you later
<cbx33> eeeeeeeeeeeeek
* cbx33 has to solder back something onto his motherboard
<cbx33> my bridge heatsink fell off
<cbx33> that's not good
<cbx33> could explain why it keeps crashing
<cbx33> :(
<cbx33> now do i do this now, or later :S
<cbx33> think i may leave it till tomorrow
<cbx33> ping LaserJock 
<cbx33> hiya
<cbx33> ogra, how do i get the label of a cd from ths iso?
<mhz> cbx33: re
* mhz had no time for a relaxing coffee (espresso would be nice)
<cbx33> hey mhz 
* lucasvo is bored writing documentation
<mhz> cbx33: last thing i got from you was "I see your point"
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> with regards to the ESA
<cbx33> we decided that the information in the wiki version
<cbx33> was too long winded to end up in the printed pamphlet, which is what ESA is going to become
<mhz> i see.
<mhz> so?
<cbx33> so
<cbx33> I think that perhaps we could have some more updated information
<cbx33> on the website
<cbx33> and say in the pamphlet that you can view this online
<cbx33> what do you think
<mhz> ogra: last time I asked about this, I recall you mentioned something like management was not entirely open to hear from edubuntu? If I am correct, then who should I personally email asking for Edubuntu status? (so they can't say "ogra is bugging about it again ; ) )
<mhz> ogra: I mean about Edubuntu artwork stuff
<mhz> cbx33: yeah!
<mhz> cbx33: but should ESA (the pamphlet) be for Edubuntu general stuff or Dapper specific?
<cbx33> ok great
<cbx33> it's more edubuntu general
<cbx33> at least that's how i wrote it
<cbx33> ogra, when will those iso you want testing be ready?
<mhz> cbx33: and do you agree with my 2 cents regarding 'Using Edubuntu' page?
<cbx33> yes sounds good
<cbx33> mhz, howz the spam killing going :D
<mhz> cbx33: well, I had almost no web connection during weekend and today I am still answering about 80 emails before I can get to kill more spam :)
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> I was just messing
<mhz> cbx33: If I were a programmer I'd definately do something like a "shoot'em-all-spams"
<cbx33> hehe
* mhz can't understand why people insist on spamming
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> its is wholly stupid
<mhz> indeed
<mhz> it benefits no onw
<mhz> s/w/e
<lucasvo> no, it's not, because people buy it
<mhz> do they???????/
<lucasvo> mhz: why would the spammer send spam if they weren't selling anything?
<mhz> lucasvo: will you buy viagra? :D
<lucasvo> mhz: not me
<lucasvo> but a lot of other people do
<mhz> hmmm, so it is like subliminal message?
<lucasvo> translate subliminal
<mhz> hmmm, eeek, never thought it was not an english word... "a message in between lines"
<lucasvo> mhz: my mothertounge is not english
<lucasvo> thank you
<mhz> like, showing the coca coal logo very quickly, without you conciously noticing it
<lucasvo> mhz: no, there are people that "dumb" that they visit the website from the spammers and buy it
<mhz> lucasvo: hehe, neither is mine. As I speak spanish (latin origin) I have found many coincidences with english lang.
<mhz> lucasvo: oh, then they are potential clicking-danger
<lucasvo> no, people really want to buy it 
<mhz> eeeek,
<lucasvo> not me or you 
<lucasvo> but several other
<lucasvo> and spam is cheep so even if you only convince 0.000002% of the receivers it's still the money worth
<mhz> interesting, I had never though of this as a 'benefit' for someone
<highvoltage> pygi: you have a website / blog?
<mhz> JaneW: r u here?
<highvoltage> i think her telkom connection just died for a moment.
<mhz> hmm, one question... why our ISO's are called dapper-install instead of edubuntu-dapper-install ?
<lucasvo> yes, that's annoying
<lucasvo> best would be
<lucasvo> edubuntu-dapper-DATE.iso
<lucasvo> or edubuntu-dapper-flight4.iso
<lucasvo> mhz: file a bug in LP?
<mhz> hmmm, it depends... maybe there are some policies why that is the way it is
<mhz> hence my question
<mhz> ;)
<mhz> but, sure. It shold be easier for newcomers.
<pygi> highvoltage, working on a website, set up a blog without content just yet :)
<pygi> why do you ask?
<highvoltage> pygi: i don't know :)
<pygi> I have a lot of things to write, just no time :)
<pygi> I'll write some things about SoC and stuff on pygi.wordpress.com unless I get the website up and running
<highvoltage> pygi: i keep huge archives of useless information in my head. and a field pygi.blog was empty, so i thought i'd ask you
<highvoltage> cool
* pygi shows mockup - http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/6396/template1gv.png
<highvoltage> k, goodnight!
<pygi> highvoltage, nice :)
<pygi> night :)
<yurtboy> When someone gets a chance, do I have to install any of the fuse apps on the client via chroot? or all on the server?
<mhz> yurtboy: ?
<yurtboy> yes
<mhz> edubuntu clients do not even need harddisk because they boot from server, so all app.s are living on the server side
<yurtboy> I know
<yurtboy> just in the past
<yurtboy> ogra has mentioned running chroot /opt/ltsp/init/etc apt-get
<mhz> hmmm, i dont know why you would need to do so
<yurtboy> have you set up fuse before?  I will look again on the ltsp wiki but just wondering
<mhz> oh, nope, I had o idea fuse was an app. I thought it was an 'adjective' :D
<mhz> sorry
<yurtboy> ( -:
<yurtboy> fuse may not be the right term
<mhz> indeed
<yurtboy> it is for local devices ltspsfd "fuse based remote filesystem daemon for thin-clients"
<mhz> ooohh
<mhz> then I have even less idea
<yurtboy> ( -:
<cbx33> local devices isn't supported yet
<yurtboy> cbx33: so the fuse info on the wiki.ltsp can not work?
<cbx33> I've no idea
<yurtboy> understood
<yurtboy> so far I can mount the usb disk on a client via fuse via the terminal of the client
<cbx33> yurtboy, good going
* mhz needs to see Edubuntu CD artwork :(
<mhz> Kubuntu has them even as a merchandising support http://www.kubuntu.org/
<cbx33> nn all
<ogra> mhz, not even i have seen the CD artwork
#edubuntu 2006-05-30
<mhz> ogra: is there anything I can do? I mean, we have only few days left and we should have at least seen what this is going to be like
<mhz> I mean, I love surprises but not just this kind of.
<ogra> nothing anyone can do ... it was a public holiday in uk today, so i couldnt ask silbs for a sample
<mhz> hmm...
* mhz sighs
<ogra> but i dont expect them to look bad 
<ogra> the last ubuntu CD covers looked all good, it will be the same company i guess
<mhz> me neither, but it is killing me the fact that it is almost 1st and we nobody here knows anything about it (not seen it)
<mhz> I was planning to invite some journalists for breakfast on the 1st
<mhz> and demo edubuntu to them
<ogra> cool
<ogra> !#
<ubotu> ogra: Some people juggle geese. Try searching at http://ubuntu.cc.com.au/
<mhz> and i gotta burn and print at least a couple of CDs (7)
<mhz> so, if they are ready, I'd like to at least have them ready for print at night time of wednesday.
<mhz> OR, it will mean I'll have to add another ToDo to my list :( and design anything for 1st
<mhz> but that would mean I'll come up with something totally diff from "official"
<mhz> which is not wise in this case
<mhz> I guess you understand my point
<bddebian> Howdy
<mhz> I know this is VERY off topic but does anyone here recommends any application for cyber cafes?
<jsgotangco> ogra: did amd64 explode? it looks a wee bit bigger than usual
<jsgotangco> (text-install)
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<cbx33> mornin all
<blue-frog> hi
<cbx33> hi pygi 
<pygi> hey cbx33, how are you? :)
<cbx33> yeh I'm good and yourself?
<cbx33> working from home today :D
<pygi> cbx33, fixing Diva bugs in PlastikExperimental :)
<cbx33> ooooooooh
* cbx33 is setting up an svn webdav server
<cbx33> hopefully now with ssh
<cbx33> ssl
<blue-frog> cbx33, do you have a tuto to set up webdav, if yes am interested
<cbx33> I'll see what I can dig out, we cobbled it toegther last time
<cbx33> but I will putup a howto when i get a chance
<cbx33> it's based on the SubVersion page on the wiki
<pygi> cbx33, do you have time?
<cbx33> but the permissions as described ther edon;t work
<pygi> we'll probably need help with cookbook
<blue-frog> cool have no problem with webdav and windows but am fighting with webdav and linux
<cbx33> so we had to install setacl
<cbx33> pygi, sure
<cbx33> what's left to do
<cbx33> still section 5?
<pygi> cbx33, nop, sec
<pygi> cbx33, 2, 4, 5, 6,7th chapter in Section II
<cbx33> eeeek
<cbx33> got the link for the wiki devel page?
<pygi> wiki devel  page? :-/
<cbx33> the page you were putting it all together on
<cbx33> ;)
<pygi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowToCookEdubuntu/Worksheet
<pygi> This part II needs to be reworked to accomodate Cookbook needs
<pygi> cbx33, btw. as soon as Dapper is out, we need to write how to remaster a LiveCD
<cbx33> pygi, I'll be interested in that one
<pygi> cbx33, that's why I am talking about it :)
<pygi> cbx33, so could you write those parts in Section II?
<cbx33> pygi, I'll take a look but I may need a lot of direction
<cbx33> though I've used LTSP I'll confess I'm no expert
<blue-frog> cbx33, someone just got me a link to what seems to be a good wbedav how-to  http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/285
<blue-frog> should help me..
<pygi> cbx33, just write what you can :)
<cbx33> blue-frog, the wiki one is much easier
<cbx33> wiki.ubuntu.com/SubVersion
<cbx33> i think
<cbx33> pygi, I certainly
<cbx33> will do my best
<cbx33> won't be able to start till a bit later, as I'm supposed to be doing work related work :p
<cbx33> I will try my upmost to do some later
<pygi> cbx33, as long as all is done today, I am happy :)
<cbx33> ogra, are those isos ready for testing yet?
<cbx33> do we have these sections from the old cookbook?
<pygi> cbx33, nop
<cbx33> and where is chapter I
<jsgotangco> pygi: why would you want to remaster a new CD?
<pygi> chapter I will be here as soon as I upload it :P
<cbx33> jsgotangco, many reasons
<cbx33> ok nice
<pygi> jsgotangco, I would not like that, I would just like we have that on wiki :)
<pygi> currently it's based on Hoary or somethin'
<cbx33> jsgotangco, for example people might like to brand it or include some applications, or even remove some
<jsgotangco> cbx33: preseeding
<cbx33> yup
<cbx33> hi all....
<cbx33> i need someone to do me a favour
<cbx33> hehehe
<cbx33> ping highvoltage 
<ogra> jsgotangco, text install amd64 looks fine to me
<ogra> (688MB)
<ogra> cbx33, the CD builds just started
<cbx33> ogra, are the iso's ready?
<cbx33> ok great
<cbx33> I'll be waiting
<cbx33> ping me when done
<cbx33> I can try out the i386 ones
<cbx33> think we can get a mac out of canonical :p - we need to test ppc more
<jsgotangco> we truly doubt that
<jsgotangco> if it did, the laptoptestingteam would have one already
<jsgotangco> :D
<cbx33> true
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> dang it
<jsgotangco> canonical spent like 30+ laptops and spread it all over the world
<jsgotangco> all of em x86 though
* cbx33 will petition for an AMD64 and imac
<jsgotangco> it will probably happen after eft
<cbx33> yeh
<jsgotangco> since the current team is tied to 3 releases
<cbx33> ping ogra 
<ogra> cbx33, pong
<cbx33> ready yet ?
<cbx33> :p
<ogra> cbx33, watch #ubuntu-devel, then you'll see it :)
<pc22> anyone familiar with browser hijackers?
<pygi> highvoltage, you have  a sec?
<highvoltage> pygi: almost literally, so you'd have to be ultra-quick :)
<pygi> highvoltage, any news on erasing the product? :)
<cbx33> ogra, ok
<cbx33> highvoltage, I have those screenshots I foudn a backup if you are interestred
<cbx33> it has practically every app
<cbx33> pygi you got two secs?
<pygi> cbx33, sure
<cbx33> for installation
<cbx33> why not use gettingstarted?
<pygi> cbx33, needs to be reworked
<pygi> some stuff goes in separate chapters, bla, bla ;)
<cbx33> oh
<cbx33> what format are we writing the cookbook in?
<cbx33> wiki/docbook/drupal?
<ogra> cbx33, gettingstarted is also packaged in edubuntu-docs (a bit hidden in /usr/share/edubuntu-docs/ though)
<cbx33> ogra, right
<pygi> cbx33, wiki
<cbx33> ogra, is that version from the svn that i worked?
<cbx33> pygi, ok cool
<cbx33> so i can create links from the worksheet and work directly there ?
<pygi> cbx33, indeed
<ogra> cbx33, its the version highvoltage sent me for inclusion with some fixes where i found it necessary
<cbx33> ok
<pygi> ogra, once the Dapper is out I'll  need to have a talk to you about few things if you can and want :)
<cbx33> hehe
<ogra> pygi, sure
<ogra> pygi, want to learn packaging doc packages ? :P
<pygi> ogra, not that :)
<pygi> shhh :)
<ogra> sad, i was hoping :)
<pygi> ogra, don't make me spread the rumour :)
<cbx33> what rumour :p
* cbx33 will learn doc packaging
<pygi> cbx33, exactly :)
* cbx33 is confused :p
* ogra too
* ogra thought cbx33 wanted to learn python and app packaging ;)
* cbx33 will elarn anything thatwill be of help
<cbx33> I suppose I try and do too much
<cbx33> pygi, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowToCookEdubuntu/Chapters/Installation
<cbx33> done
<cbx33> that ok?
<pygi> cbx33, yup
<ogra> the resolution selection happens only on failures
<cbx33> I've always seen it :p
<ogra> (if the resolution cant be determined by xresprobe because the monitor gives no clear DCC info)
<cbx33> yeh
<ogra> cbx33, youre installing in vmware .. :)
<cbx33> and on laptops
<ogra> widescreen ? 
<cbx33> nope
<highvoltage> pygi: the product?
<cbx33> pygi, got a few more seconds ?
<cbx33> highvoltage, did you get my pm?
<pygi> highvoltage, ergh, that cookbook thingy we were discussing yesterday? :)
<highvoltage> cbx33: thanks, i'll check your pm for link
<cbx33> np
<pygi> highvoltage, about deleting it from launchpad?
<pygi> highvoltage, speak with lp admins? :)
<cbx33> pygi, need to talk to you about administration Part II
<highvoltage> pygi: still on my todo, have lots of pressing budget issues to sort out with tuxlab team... so things are a bit pressing here
<pygi> highvoltage, oki :)
<pygi> cbx33, shoot
<cbx33> what information do you want in there
<cbx33> creating users
<cbx33> what else?
<pygi> Perhaps Student-Control-Panel usage :)
<cbx33> iiieeeee
<cbx33> I've never even used it
<cbx33> :p
<pygi> cbx33, sudo apt-get install ... :)
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> and all this has to be done by the end of today?
<ogra> well, it doesnt need much documentation currently, the two functions it has are pretty obvous :P
<cbx33> ogra, ok
<cbx33> installing applications via synaptic etc?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> via gnome-app-install should be our promoted method
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> i didn't know what we were pushcing
<cbx33> seeing as I apt-get everything
<ogra> but thats already covered in the ubuntu desktop guide i think
<cbx33> but it probably should be in cookbook for completeness
<pygi> cbx33, that by the end of that?
<cbx33> don;t you think?
<pygi> thats nothing :)
<pygi> I have lot more to do by end of day :P
<cbx33> pygi, iwas saying it was a small amount
<cbx33> I was saying it was a large amount
<pygi> cbx33, hehe :
<cbx33> just so I know what to write about.....
<cbx33> I can't promise the world pygi but I can promise to try
<cbx33> if you have other people who want to do the sections give it to them :)
<cbx33> but I will attempt to get as much done as I can
<cbx33> ogra, do you need to run the update sshkeys when you have updated the kernel...or is that just when the ip changes?
<cbx33> is ltsp manager planned for edgy?
<pygi> cbx33, thanks :)
<ogra> cbx33, if you updated the kernel in the client chroot you need to run ltsp-update-kernels
<cbx33> yes I know that
<ogra> (not -sshkeys)
<cbx33> ok cool
<cbx33> just thinking those should be put into the cookbook
<ogra> yep
<ogra> in the ltsp part
<ajayc> guys this might now be a nice to say such stuff
<ajayc> but i was trying to make a hangout place #worlddomination
<ajayc> please come there if u want
<cbx33> ogra, indeed
<pygi> ajayc, ergh, we are working on a release
<pygi> be shhh 
<cbx33> be shhh.... ;)
<ajayc> ok
<UbuntuBes> hi does anyone know how to download torrent files using shell command??
<ajayc> not me ;)
<UbuntuBes> my currently using GUI in gnome-btdownload
<ajayc> so why shell?
<pygi> UbuntuBes, btdownload-curses, but go #ubuntu pls :)
<UbuntuBes> pygi y is this # differnt ??
<ajayc> pygi, dont scare him :P
<pygi> UbuntuBes, because this is for edubuntu specific things...go #ubuntu
<pygi> we are writing "How to cook tomato soup" book
<ajayc> ROFL
<pygi> ajayc, be shhh :)
<ajayc> LOL
<ajayc> pygi, please come to #worlddomination
<ajayc> please
<ajayc> i want u there
<ajayc> :)
<pygi> ajayc, shhhhh, I need to proofread book
<UbuntuBes> oppss... soorry
<UbuntuBes> but this # to talk about what?
<cbx33> don't worry about it UbuntuBes 
<ajayc> please pygi 
<pygi> UbuntuBes, Edubuntu specific issue, like LTSP and such :)
<ogra> UbuntuBes, edubuntu and ltsp
<cbx33> UbuntuBes, we talk about edubuntu
<cbx33> did you ever need more of a concrete answer :p
<UbuntuBes> hmm.. as far i concern that ubuntu n edubuntu are the same
<UbuntuBes> is it?
<ogra> nearly, yes
<pygi> UbuntuBes, if it's same for question like that --> #ubuntu :)
<ogra> UbuntuBes, if you have a problem with gcompris, ltsp or the edubuntu installer on the CD this is the right channel
<ogra> questions about stuff thats related to ubuntu in general should go to to #ubuntu :)
<mhz> hi all
<pygi> hey mhz
<mhz> hey
<mhz> JaneW: hi, r u here?
<mhz> cbx33: hey, leave me at least one spam to kill :D
<cbx33> mhz, hehe
<cbx33> sorry dude
<mhz> :D
<mhz> it is ok
<mhz> it seems to me it is the 'timezone' factor
<cbx33> could be
<JaneW> mhz: hi, yes
<JaneW> pygi: I have just read over 200 SoC admin mails *FUN*
<JaneW> pygi: Marty Connor is a NERD
<mhz> JaneW: nice to see ya here. JaneW I would like to 'formally' ask the Edubuntu CD Artwork people to please show us their work. Will that get a positive response?
<cbx33> mhz, you've been after this for a while havn't you
<cbx33> who does the edubuntu CD artwork?
<JaneW> mhz: I don't think it is being publicised yet, but you are welcome to mail silbs and request it
<cbx33> ah
<JaneW> cbx33: hi, Jane Silber is in charge of it and she contracts it out to professional designers
<cbx33> ok
<highvoltage> ogra: did you get a chance to bug silbs? (or perhaps i should ask... did she get a chance to be bugged?)
<mhz> JaneW: also, I need to ask for a special shipping (about 50 CD's). Who is the one to email about it?
<ogra> mhz, thats marilize
<JaneW> that functioanlity will be provided, via Marilize
<JaneW> mhxz: I don't think they are doing large pre-orders though
<JaneW> mhz: mail marilize in the mean time marilize@canonical.com
<JaneW> mhz: either way I expect large orders will be availavle in the next 2 weeks or so
<mhz> JaneW: oh, but there is a policy to the CD artwork? I mean, they are not supposed to be publicised before release? (at least a JPG of it would be ok for my needs) ;)
<ajayc> pygi, why left?
<spacey> mhz: its already on the wiki
<JaneW> spacey: where?
<mhz> spacey: ?? really?
<spacey> i've downloaded it before 
<spacey> hehe
<spacey> hold on
<cbx33> heheh
* mhz hugs spacey and hands in a muffin!
* cbx33 grabs the muffin
<mhz> lol
<ogra> thief !
<spacey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DIYMarketing?highlight=%28DIY%29
* cbx33 places the muffin in a duplicator and makes one for everybody
<spacey> see :P)
<mhz> ogra: cbx33 is right. Based on the geek way of communicating, I did not specify "to whom" so, it was 'free-to-grab' muffin :D
<mhz> oh, a GPL'ed muffin
<pygi> ajayc, so you can ask things :)
<JaneW> spacey: awesome thanks, I didn't know they were released yet
* ogra hopes the red looks so weird because its a pdf he's looking at
<spacey> i found it a week ago
<spacey> :)
* mhz complains! Why hired artwork people always submits non-sources?
<dinda> <-- doesn't wanna be a lurker so I'm saying "hello" to the room
<ogra> mhz, you have an eps, whats wrong ? 
<mhz> spacey: thx for the url
<pygi> JaneW, the book will be done today
<pygi> we'll proofread more then
<pygi> until the release
<JaneW> pygi: \o/
<ogra> dinda, hi :)
<cbx33> hi dinda 
<magnon> hm. any french people around?
<mhz> ogra: maybe I am wrong, but there is not "much" you can do with eps. (i hope to be wrong, but 'encapsulated' is not same)
<cbx33> does anyone know if document viewer handles transparency in dapper?
<highvoltage> ogratjie
<mhz> pygi: COOL!
<dinda> I'm from Texas - so no French here, sorry
<JaneW> ogra: the 'circle of friends' isn't even a circle... :/
<pygi> JaneW, that good? :P
<JaneW> ogra: and the edubuntu CD cover says dubuntu...
<ogra> JaneW, not here
<JaneW> oic
<ogra> the layout seems fine here, i'm just concerned that the red is way to bright, it doiesnt match the color we use everywhere else
<JaneW> hopefully there's something wrong here, because they look awful and looks like I could have done a better job...
<highvoltage> link?
<cbx33> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DIYMarketing?highlight=%28DIY%29
<JaneW> ogra: it's the pdf viewer!
<JaneW> if I open in xpdf it looks WAY better
* JaneW mails ogra..
<ogra> yaeh, that might be, doko made some very weird font decisions
<blue-frog> magnong quel est ton probleme?
<blue-frog> magnon
<JaneW> ogra: the image does not have a transparent background etc
<magnon> blue-frog: you have any idea where the registry of french businesses is, on the web? I need an organisation number
<cbx33> JaneW, yup
<JaneW> ok now I like them much more
<cbx33> that threw me for ages whilst creating ES in scribus
<JaneW> cbx33: odd
<ogra> JaneW, using breezy or dapper ?
<JaneW> breezy *hide*
<cbx33> for some reason document view in breezy at least doens't support transparent pngs
<ogra> (looks fine in evince for me on dapper)
* JaneW is a stable user
* cbx33 hides too
<cbx33> hide me JaneW 
<JaneW> cbx33: get behind me, no one will see you
<ogra> JaneW, well, if you are *this* outdated then its indeed clear
<blue-frog> magnon try to get information from a chamber of commerce
<ogra> ;)
<JaneW> cbx33: btw that anime has been very inspiring, I have been to gym twice since and am now trying to get thighs like that... good motivation :P
<mhz> LOL
<blue-frog> magnon get into pm
<cbx33> heheh :p - I'll let Lisa know
<cbx33> you missed her popping into IRC yesterday
<JaneW> aaah!
<mhz> JaneW: no need for GYM... that tattoo already got my heart prisioner.
<JaneW> heh
<mhz> cbx33: maybe she could make an 'ogra' drawing :)
<cbx33> it's on the way mhz 
<mhz> at least ogra will get a 'clone'
<ogra> JaneW, did you note the little "Yo" on the belt ?
<ogra> (another homie) :)
<mhz> hehehehe
<cbx33> homies rules
<cbx33> I think there should be an exclusive.... edubuntu homies club
<ogra> lol
* mhz has been listening to lots o rammstein musik
<cbx33> for people who have an anime likeness only :p
<JaneW> ogra: as long as it wasn't a 'ho' ! ;)
<mhz> cbx33: homiez rulz
<ogra> JaneW, LOL
<mhz> back to edubuntu topics...:D  When should we start our 1st Edubuntu Newsletter
<cbx33> brb lunch !
<ogra> mhz, yesterday !
<ogra> JaneW, that shot looks weird
<JaneW> ogra: which one?
<mhz> ogra: hmmm, has jerome started anything (besides his email in ML last week?)
<ogra> the one you just mailed :)
<ogra> mhz, no idea
<mhz> okis
<JaneW> ogra: of course! I just editted a photos, so you had me a bit worried ;P
<ogra> he didnt ask for input yet
<mhz> but the idea is to have one ready for release or 1 week after?
<JaneW> ogra: but you can see why I didn't like the cover at all!
<ogra> yep :)
<ogra> mhz, yesterday !
<JaneW> mhz: I have a new pic up, but it is less naked
<mhz> ogra: :D
<mhz> JaneW: please! url!!!
<JaneW> http://www.flickr.com/photos/55079435@N00/156375938/
<JaneW> just shows the design
<mhz> JaneW: the ideal pic is not too much clothes on, not too less...imagination is sexy thing
* mhz hides until blushing dissapears...can't believe he said that.
<JaneW> mhz: I think that's very true
<mhz> JaneW: yup, but one thing is to think of it and the other is to make it off topic in a community channel oriented towards education
<mhz> :D
<JaneW> mhz: :)
<mhz> hmm, on a second thought... it was 'educational' :D
<mhz> JaneW: nice tattoo, indeed, charged of symbolisim
<mhz> JaneW: is that a permanent tattoo?
<JaneW> yes
<dinda> did it hurt much?  getting the tattoo applied, that is
<JaneW> dinda: yes it did a bit
<JaneW> dinda: it's qiute painful actually
<dinda> I've thought of getting one but want to make sure it's on a body part that won't sag too much with age ;)
<JaneW> dinda: I blogged about it, so you can read a first hand account, if you like, http://janewsblog.blogspot.com/2004/05/amazing-thailand-part-8-taboos.html
<JaneW> dinda: ditto - hence behind the shoulder ;)
<dinda> JaneW: thanks, I'll check it out
<JaneW> dinda: In fact I think I described it as 'one part of my body that won't end up around my knees!' ;)
<dinda> Lol
<dinda> well at least with geckos it will just look like they grew longer ;)
<JaneW> heh
<dinda> hmm, I wonder why I have to copy everything in the window twice before it actually copies where I can paste it
<dinda> does anyone know if that's a IRC client thing?
<ogra> works fine here with selecting and middle mouse pasting
<ogra> (in xchat)
<dinda> probably my client - athenaIRC
<ogra> never heard of that
<dinda> for Mac OS (dinda runs and hides)
<ogra> ah, k
<pygi> JaneW, do we have a edu-newsletter team already?
* ogra wiped his OSX after having a look at the awful introduction wizard
<pygi> ogra, and Ubuntu will have a introduction wizard :P
<ogra> pygi, unlikely
<pygi> ogra, why we accepted SoC student for that then? (altought after the "students collision")
<ogra> apart from the whole distroteam, sabdfl will heavily object such ugliness
<pygi> "per talk with Ivan Krstic" Greg Stein
<pygi> hehe :)
<ogra> pygi, thats what i'm wondering as well, but be sure we wont have such a thing ... probably as an optional service, but never by default
<pygi> ogra, good thoughts
<JaneW> pygi: well it seems it's going to be a collaborative team
<pygi> we got 3 or 4 project which we really haven't wanted :-/
<ogra> yes
<JaneW> pygi: but I think the focus (as usual) should be to push something out, and regularly
<ogra> sadly
<JaneW> and tweak the process over time
<dinda> ogra: I just cleaned off a partition on my PC and am doing an Ubuntu install this morning
<JaneW> rather than plan to much and not do it
<JaneW>  *hint hint*
<pygi> JaneW, indeed, if someone really wanna do the work ... I don't want to happen like it did with cookbook
<JaneW> agreed
<pygi> JaneW, just poke me if you need any help with that
<pc22> anyone familiar with browser hijackers?
<pygi> pc22, that is not for this channel
<pc22> ok
<pygi> this is your third trolling around this channel
<pygi> be warned 
<pygi> :)
<ogra> pygi, come on
<pygi> ogra, :)
<cbx33> JaneW, did you want me to take a look at mocking up a news letter?
<ogra> we're not #ubuntu
<cbx33> ogra, indeed, they don;t have The Homies :p
<pygi> ogra, oh, sorry :)
<JaneW> cbx33: yes please, but althing like Riddell's letter will be great
<ogra> cbx33, please coordinate with jsgotangco since he wanted to take the lead on that
<cbx33> I was going to base it on that
<JaneW> better is a bonus of course
<pc22> ubuntu was not quiet like that when it was new
<cbx33> of course I will upon his return
<pc22> dont tell me edubuntu is on its way
<ogra> he's here, he's just hiding behind a GEGL ;)
<cbx33> yes I know
<dinda> is the newsletter going to be in the wiki or the email list? or both?
<cbx33> i would propose drupal....
<cbx33> what do you guys think?
<JaneW> dinda: e-mail firstly, but can be archived on the wiki too
<ogra> dinda, mailing list for now, we'll have it on the website later and via rss on the fridge
<mhz> JaneW: is the focus of Edubuntu Newsletter only about Edubuntu or can also be about philosophy related to FLOSS and education?
<JaneW> the newsletter needs to go to Ubuntu-news each week
<ogra> JaneW, jdub objected
<JaneW> ogra: oh
<cbx33> I still havn't gottn a reply from jdub about my blog :p
<ogra> we agreed to have it in drupal and exported via rss to the fridge ... 
<JaneW> well then it needs to go where mdz and jdun want it
<ogra> but for the start we should use the mailing list
<ogra> mhz, focused on edubuntu
<dinda> rss would be great then we can send those not on the list to it as well as linking elsewhere
<ogra> pc22, i hope that edubuntu is on its way ;) we'd appreciate growth 
* cbx33 makes a note to coordinate with js later on it
<cbx33> I have some cookbook things to do
<cbx33> and some "paid" work 
<cbx33> which unfortunately has to come first
<mhz> ogra: then I'd like to call a 'section', "A coffee with Edubuntu" (or something like that. I usually write about stuff while drinking espressos ;)
<ogra> great :)
<cbx33> mhz, sounds cool
* cbx33 writes for the linux gazette occasionally, so I'll have to put my article writers hat on
<mhz> I will submit a 1st proposal of "A.C.w.E" after lunch, tomorrow (wednesday)
<cbx33> mhz, sounds good
<cbx33> are we having our meeting tomorrow?
<mhz> Also, I'd like to propose a 'teachers feedback' writing/interview
<cbx33> mhz, sounds like some of this could crossover with lucasvo's journal
<mhz> Of course, we'll need someone to be Editor so may have a 'common-weekly' focus topic
<mhz> cbx33: what you mean?
<mhz> cbx33: oh, wait....brakfast!
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> catch you later mhz :p
<mhz_breakfast> cbx33: BB in 30 mins
<cbx33> np I'll be out soon
<pygi> ogra, nothing from kjcole just yet :-/
<ogra> give him time, he's on US TZ
<pygi> ah,oki :)
<bddebian> Hello
<pygi> hey bddebian 
<bddebian> Hi pygi
<ogra> hi bddebian 
<bddebian> Heya ogra
<nettogrof> hi :)
<bddebian> Hello nettogrof
<nettogrof> hi bddebian 
<ltsp_cameroon> help> which software can be used for internet cafe and edubuntu
<jsgotangco> JaneW: please review draft of newsletter i just sent (i wrote it in 10 minutes sorry)
<bddebian> Heya jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> bddebian: hi!
<ogra> jsgotangco, perfect
<ogra> jsgotangco, please clan up and send it ;)
<highvoltage> edubuntu is on planet a lot
<jsgotangco> heh its already clean (i made a spell check)
<highvoltage> i think that is really cool :)
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: or planet quim gil rather
<jsgotangco> :D
<ogra> jsgotangco, i meant the huge header "THIS IS A DRAFT" ;)
<highvoltage> heh, yeah. he's about half the planet right now :)
<jsgotangco> ahhh
<jsgotangco> ok I will send this now
<highvoltage> i like "We could provide a second, younger child to betatest in a near future... ;)"
<highvoltage> someones willing to breed, just to provide more testers for edubuntu!? :P
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: i'll send this newsletter i did but flame me later if i missed something lol
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: or would you like to review it first?
<ogra> jsgotangco, please send it to edubuntu-devel and ubuntu-news for now
<jsgotangco> ok
<ogra> (or i can do it if you prefer)
<ajayc> hiya highvoltage 
<jsgotangco> i can't push to -news
<jsgotangco> do you?
<bddebian> I got three kids, I should throw on Edubuntu :-)
<ogra> yeah !
<highvoltage> hi ajayc 
<bddebian> jsgotangco: Yep
<ogra> jsgotangco, nope, but i can contact the right people to promote it
<jsgotangco> ok i will send it now
<bddebian>  almost 7, 5, and 3
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: i think it might be useful for more than one person to review it, at least
<jsgotangco> err
<jsgotangco> ok
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: did you make a launchpad group for that?
* jsgotangco sends it first to highvoltage
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: no not yet, this is a 10 minute job
<highvoltage> it might be good for that team to review in the future
<jsgotangco> yep 
<ogra> highvoltage, we can do that in further versions, currently its important to get *anything* out of the door
<ogra> (asap)
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: listen to ogra. just get it out there! :)
<jsgotangco> gahhh
<jsgotangco> ok
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: sorry if i just gave you some extra trouble there for a second
<jsgotangco> heh no worries
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: but i think it's important to show the rest of ubuntu-world that edubuntu is organised
<ogra> highvoltage, absolutely 
<highvoltage> and that we work together well :)
<highvoltage> (which we do)
<jsgotangco> sorry about that (had some big emergency at home but recovering now)
<ogra> the newsletter should be responsibility of the edubuntu-doc team in the future
<ogra> but at the moment we need to get out *something*
<highvoltage> ogra: so we can make a launchpad group, that's a member of edubuntu-doc team?
<ogra> why an extra group ?
<blue-frog> bddebian, put last year my kid (he's almost 5 now) on edubuntu and my dad (72 today), they both do well, kid better than grandpa though) kid knows how to log in with username and password even if he doesn't know how to read/write yet :)
<highvoltage> ogra: ok, i was under the impression that the newsletter will start rolling out after release
<highvoltage> ogra: because newsletter is different to documentation. it's closer to marketing
<ogra> highvoltage, kubuntu had its second newsletter already
<highvoltage> ogra: and i think you'll find a small core who's really interested in the newsletter, but not in other docs
<blue-frog> *off to get get at school btw..
<highvoltage> ogra: but if you're opposed to having another group, then i'm fine with it
<highvoltage> ogra: i've seen.
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: let's just publish this for now then discuss it after. After all, i made a call for contributors for next issue
<ogra> if thats really needed, make an additional team, but i dont really see the need
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: ok, don't let our conversations distract you :)
<bddebian> blue-frog: Heh, I know that feeling.  My stinking 2, almost 3 year old is playing on the thing now :-)
<ogra> bddebian, change the diaper then 
<bddebian> heh
<bddebian> Mine or hers? ;-)
<jsgotangco> ogra: just to verify we have 2 SoC projects right?
<ogra> bddebian, well, the one that stinks indeed
<ogra> jsgotangco, we have this other thing with the siple IDE, not sure thats still categorized as edubuntu project 
<jsgotangco> i dont think that's Edubuntu either although Keybuk will mentor it
<ogra> yep
<ogra> it was initiated as edubuntu project
<ogra> but seems its more a general one now
<JaneW> jsgotangco: will do
<mhz_breakfast> re
<mhz> highvoltage: wanna see fet poster?
<highvoltage> mhz: ok
<bddebian> Hello mhz
<jsgotangco> errr
* jsgotangco patiently awaits
<ogra> TESTERS ARE YOU READY TO TEST ? 
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current/
<ogra> (no liveCD yet)
* jsgotangco will try
<mhz> hi bddebian 
<mhz> jsgotangco: newsletter already?
<ogra> already ??
<jsgotangco> mhz: my finger is about to press the send button but still waiting...
<mhz> hmm, then, no need for me to hurry and make a.c.w.e tomorrow ;)
<ogra> jsgotangco, DOIT!
<mhz> jsgotangco: i have seen nothing yet?
<jsgotangco> mhz: no time to review/argue content, flame me later on issue 02
<mhz> jsgotangco: yeah, just send it, i trust everyone's judgment
<mhz> jsgotangco: sure
<mhz> highvoltage: http://mhz.homelinux.org/tcwiki/FetChile#head-c0dffca12ca541e81766bef61ef80e60726700e3
<mhz> highvoltage: attachment:FetAficheCron060526.jpg, of course
<highvoltage> ok
<ogra> mhz, we're two weeks late with the newsletter already, so we can coordinate for netx time
<mhz> sure
<mhz> np
<mhz> i 100% understand
<jsgotangco> ogra: sent please push to -news
<mhz> ogra: it is just I had no idea (until you mentioned earlier) it was that urgent. I just got informed last week
<jsgotangco> mhz: we'll have people write to the wiki next week
<jsgotangco> (as jordan suggested)
<mhz> jsgotangco: wiki's good :)
<mhz> jsgotangco: and any news on edubuntu doc wiki?
<JaneW> jsgotangco: I love your news letter :)
<jsgotangco> JaneW: WRITTEN IN 10 MINUTES AFTER READING YOUR ULTIMATUM
<bddebian> heh
<ogra> yeah its wonderful :)
<jsgotangco> hmm why is it still not appearing in edubuntu-devel?
<JaneW> jsgotangco: you work well under pressure!
<jsgotangco> JaneW: i just had good news today that's all
<JaneW> jsgotangco: yay
<JaneW> jsgotangco: another baby?
<ogra> jsgotangco, it is (for me)
<JaneW> *prying*
<jsgotangco> no
<JaneW> ok sorry
<ogra> and it should be on ubuntu-news the next seconds as well
<jsgotangco> i still don't see it in the archive
<mhz> me neither
<ogra> the archive is synced by a cronjob
<mhz> highvoltage: liked the poster?
<jsgotangco> but i already got the -news moderation queue notification
<highvoltage> mhz: page is still loading... sure it's the right link?
<mhz> hmmm, wait...yes. hold on.
<mhz> highvoltage: take irc files?
<highvoltage> nope
<highvoltage> ah, have it
<mhz> ?
<highvoltage> mhz: heh. that looks almost like the ubuntu font :)
<mhz> it is
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: so what's the good news? you're keeping us in suspense here!
<highvoltage> mhz: it's nice :)
<mhz> highvoltage: remember that original event was for april, and the edubuntu release was main event
<mhz> unvelivably, Mark chose June for dapper, just the date we had also chosen :)
<mgalvin> JaneW: ping?
<mhz> for FET, we'll have an edubuntu lab for people to experiment with it..well, all public pc's will br running edubuntu, either LTSP or workstation
<mhz> of course, I wont make them count for counter.li :D
<pygi> ogra, poke
<JaneW> mgalvin: pong
* ogra falls 
<ogra> pygi, dont you pke that hard !
<ogra> *poke
<mhz> highvoltage: i am glad yu like it as I made the draft and passed it on to a designer
<mgalvin> JaneW: hi, do you know if anyone else is working on an Ubuntu newletter?
<pygi> ogra, I am now owner of the team
<ogra> mgalvin, see ubuntu-news ;)
<ogra> pygi, cookbook ? 
<pygi> all we need more is to erase that product, but highvoltage will probably do it
<pygi> ogra, yup :)
<ogra> perfect
<JaneW> mgalvin: well Riddell is doing Kubuntu, jsgotangco et al doing Edubuntu and I think we still need one for Ubuntu and Xubuntu
<ogra> cant you just edit the product now ? 
<JaneW> mgalvin: you volunteering?
<pygi> ogra, I'll try 
<mgalvin> JaneW: yes :)
<JaneW> mgalvin: awesome \o/
<JaneW> *yay* *yay*
<mgalvin> :)
* highvoltage bugs #luanchpad about that now
<mgalvin> has anyone else shown any interest in working on it that you know of?
<highvoltage> pygi: what's the exact group that needs to be deleted?
<pygi> highvoltage, this : https://launchpad.net/products/edubuntu.cookbook
<JaneW> mgalvin: not yet, but it was the next thing I was going to look at setting up
<highvoltage> pygi: ok
<pygi> JaneW, if we lack people I might help with something
<JaneW> mgalvin: orginally I was going to have to do it
<JaneW> but I am leaving in 2 weeks, so I am farming out my duties
<mgalvin> ah, ok, i guess i will just start working on them, from there we'll just see if anyone else helps out too
<Yagisan> ogra: re package. oops. forgot to remove the gcc-4.1 dep while investigating an ICE. Will send corrected files later.
<ogra> Yagisan, ok
<mgalvin> so should these be sent to ubuntu-news as ogra pointed out (not sure if everyone knows about this list yet)
* mgalvin didn't :-/
<pygi> JaneW, is mgalvin going to do ubuntu or?
<ogra> mgalvin, this list is very old
<ogra> mgalvin, it was used for the weekly ubuntu newsletter back in warty and hoary
<jsgotangco> did anyone receive my email yet?
<mhz> jsgotangco: great concise letter!
<jsgotangco> phone brb
* highvoltage checks
<ogra> jsgotangco, yes
<jsgotangco> ok
<mgalvin> ogra: ah
<jsgotangco> that's were traffic used to be announced
<mgalvin> jsgotangco: yup
<jsgotangco> s/were/where
<mgalvin> right ok
<mgalvin> i remember now
<mgalvin> pygi: i am going to start working on it
* mhz wonders... should i forward it to edubuntu-devel-es and ubuntu-cl or 1st translate it?
<pygi> mgalvin, ubuntu one or xubuntu one?
<mgalvin> ubuntu
<pygi> ah,oki :)
<mgalvin> wanna help?
<mgalvin> well, i will do it on the wiki anyway so anyone can always contrib as usual
<JaneW> mgalvin: mdz would like one consolidated newsletter now
<JaneW> mgalvin  or jsgotangco : would you like to edit that?
<JaneW> mdz would like a doc team member to be the editor
<jsgotangco> gee
<ogra> JaneW, we already clearified that for edubuntu
<mgalvin> jsgotangco: another project together? ;)
<jsgotangco> he's like asking someone to do ubuntu-traffic part 2
<ogra> its responsibility of edubuntu-doc
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: you forgot the new mailing list :)
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: its not even listed
<highvoltage> ok, strange. i thought it was.
<jsgotangco> well there's edubuntu-es
<jsgotangco> but i was hoping mhz would translate it and be in the loop for next
<spacey> what is the new mailinglist?
<pygi> mgalvin, I can't help right now (today), book stuff :)
<highvoltage> ogra: edubuntu-users isn't a public list?
<ogra> not yet, on my list
<highvoltage> pygi: the product has moved on
<spacey> ah i didn't know it was already alive
<highvoltage> pygi: you can create a new one now
<spacey> -users that is
<pygi> highvoltage, k, thanks :)
<mgalvin> JaneW: i have no real objections to one consolidated newsletter they will likely just be longer
<jsgotangco> JaneW: maybe someone in -marketing is better suited for this if the aim is marketing....
<ogra> everybody from -devel is autosubscribed anyway, i'll send a welcome message once i'm done
<highvoltage> is -marketing active?
<jsgotangco> JaneW: but remember mako didn't really get to do -traffic that much either...because of the volume
<spacey> highvoltage: not really
<JaneW> mdz JaneW: I think we should consolidate them into a single publication
<JaneW> mdz with sections for the different derivatives
<JaneW> mdz since e.g., much of what happens in Ubuntu applies to the others, and we'll have community-oriented content which isn't specific to a derivative
<JaneW> JaneW mdz: that may be a bit more tricky to co-ordinate between the different ppl
<JaneW> JaneW mdz: but I am sure it can be done if neccessary
<JaneW> mdz should just need someone to receive and collect them; perhaps someone from the doc team would be keen?
<spacey> highvoltage: nothing interesting at -marketing if you ask me
<highvoltage> spacey: seems like the mailing list is very non-active too, which is why i asked
<jsgotangco> it looks pretty hard consolidating
<jsgotangco> and its weekly...
<JaneW> it's not so much marketing as a good easy to read summary to that anybody can keep up with the overview dev and other progress without reading all of the devel lists
* mgalvin smells a newsletter team starting
<JaneW> mgalvin: yes
<highvoltage> launchpad team! launchpad team! launchpad team!
<JaneW> I have to go soon, but please mull this over
<highvoltage> :p
<mgalvin> :)
* jsgotangco is not so keen on this
<ogra> the derivative specific part still need writing from the derivative people 
<JaneW> and I for one will be the kind of person interested in reading them!
<spacey> highvoltage: i guess marketing is something that happens more naturally, 
<mhz> jsgotangco: then, okis, I'll traqnslate it, sure. Count on it for today
<spacey> you might drown in launchpad teams :P
<highvoltage> wow, i should've started using rsync more frequently more recently before.
<ogra> jsgotangco, instead of sending it to the lists, you just send your part to the newsletter publisher then ...
<spacey> most have no use
<ogra> i dont see a prob here
<jsgotangco> that would work
<highvoltage> spacey: you're right. perhaps it's better with -doc afterall
<ogra> its just about merging them into one document
<mgalvin> jsgotangco: i guess i could be broken up where, you focus on edubuntu stuff, Riddell on kubuntu and me on ubuntu
<jsgotangco> and who consolidates :D
<jsgotangco> ?
<mgalvin> us? :-/
<jsgotangco> lol
<mgalvin> hehe
<spacey> highvoltage: wouldn't make a difference :)
<jsgotangco> mgalvin: well that's workable
<mgalvin> i mean i don't mind mushing it into a coherent doc at the end of each week
<JaneW> highvoltage: see you tomorrow
<pygi> ogra, oki, all setup
<pygi> product and team
<ogra> nice :)
<pygi> I shall start tracking branches, specs, etc. from edgy
<pygi> and I want to have full spec for Edgy Edubuntu cookbook from Paris :)
<spacey> will i be murdered if i put the happy circle of kids on my website? i guess i need to ask canonicle permission for usage or is it a happily free licensed?
<jsgotangco> mgalvin: yeah it would be refreshing to write something more humane once a week ;)
<jsgotangco> pygi: are you going to paris?
<pygi> jsgotangco, no :'(
<mgalvin> jsgotangco: indeed :)
<pygi> jsgotangco, sadly ;-/
<spacey> highvoltage: you know by accident?
<mgalvin> jsgotangco: shall i just start up a ubuntu-newsletter team in launchpad then
<jsgotangco> should work
<jsgotangco> instead of 3 different teams
<mgalvin> ok, i'll set it up in a sec
<highvoltage> JaneW: seeya!
<mgalvin> yup
<jsgotangco> i presume Riddell will be handling over newsletter duties in the future
<pygi> jsgotangco, make that 4 :)
<pygi> K/Edu/U/X - buntu
<highvoltage> spacey: according to our wiki, everthing on it is CC-BY
<jsgotangco> sorry about that
<highvoltage> spacey: and the circle of friends is displayed on the same page ;)
<spacey> highvoltage: ok thats nice:)
<spacey> i thought the wiki was sort of public domain
<spacey> i got a mail from mdke about that a while back i think
<highvoltage> i think the rest of the wiki is...
<spacey> except the edubuntu wiki?
<spacey> :P
<spacey> which is actually the same
<spacey> or are you talking about the website
<mgalvin> jsgotangco: ubuntu-newsletter
<Yagisan> I don't care. It seems my work was re licensed unilaterally by -doc without my permission. I won't add to the wiki anymore.
<highvoltage> spacey: the wiki's used to be seperate, now they're merged
<highvoltage> spacey: but the licensing information has never been taken off the edubuntu wiki, which were CC
<spacey> ok
<spacey> Yagisan: yeah its not really nice
<spacey> I would have preferred CC anyway
<spacey> not some wierd public domain variant
<ogra> that was only intended for artwork initially
<ogra> since we'll only accept ccbysa artwork 
<spacey> now you can't copy something from wikipedia AFAIU
<mgalvin> jsgotangco: and i have a neat idea for an icon :)
<mgalvin> i whip it up during lunch
<Yagisan> spacey: I had run-ins with mdke over licensing. no more. I don't care for him, and his "I'm a lawyer, I'll tell you what I can do with your work" attitude.
<ogra> so are you all downloading the iso ? 
<spacey> Yagisan: i mailed back about that license change but never got reply
<jsgotangco> sorry was on phone
* jsgotangco joins
<Yagisan> spacey: I didn't bother, as I don't expect he will
<highvoltage> ogra: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki
<highvoltage> ogra: check at the bottom, that's been there for a very long time now
<ogra> then we should fix that :)
<jsgotangco> mgalvin: meh i couldn't join
<highvoltage> ogra: should it be removed?
<ogra> i admit i look very rarely on the wiki frontpage
<Yagisan> spacey: it's a shame. I really like edubuntu, but I will not add docs if the license is blatantly violated
* highvoltage too
<ogra> it should be consistent with ubuntu
<spacey> i think it should stay CC :P
<mgalvin> jsgotangco: try now
<highvoltage> spacey: if it's public domain, then you can use it on your site too, afaik
<ogra> CC will be needed for artwork still ... but not for the whole wiki
<spacey> highvoltage: ah yeah thats even better for me in this case :p
<highvoltage> understood
* Yagisan still has the original on his site
<spacey> what did the community council say about it? i guess they decided it should be public domain
<highvoltage> i gtg
<spacey> anyway i'll take the happy kids image :P
<Yagisan> PD is like a BSD license. If I wanted that, I would have contributed under that license
<spacey> with CC you can also put it on your own site right?
<jsgotangco> Yagisan: the wiki is licensed differently from ubuntu-docs (CC by SA & GFDL)
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: it is different now. not when my CC-BY-SA docs was added
* jsgotangco prefers to write GFDL
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: you know why it is different right ?
<jsgotangco> of course
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: mdke had a pissing contest with me
<jsgotangco> frankly i don't care that much what happens to what i write
<jsgotangco> i wrote my piece, i let other people use it for their good
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: my docs are like my code. I chose the license that protects it the most
<jsgotangco> yeah
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: he is removing that protection
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: like insisting I change my gpl code to bsd
<jsgotangco> well the licensing change wasn't his sole decision really
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: really doesn't seem that way.
<jsgotangco> well if you want you could raise it to community council
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: IIRC isn't the next CC meeting after the mass-relicensing takes place ?
<jsgotangco> honestly, im not so much hot on wiki stuff, especially the move...
<jsgotangco> there's a CC in 30 minutes (if it pushes through)
<cbx33> wow big crowd :p
<Yagisan> I really don' know why they think PD is better then the CC-BY-SA unless they plan to sell it, and pretend they wrote it
<cbx33> and how is everyone this afternoon
<Yagisan> cbx33: cranky
* cbx33 just took a guinea pig to the vets 
* ogra hopes testing CDs
* cbx33 is just about to download now :D
<ogra> cbx33, live isnt reay yet
<ogra> *ready
<cbx33> ok I'll grab install
<jsgotangco> i will have to skip testing tonight guys
* jsgotangco is quite tired
<cbx33> jsgotangco, you got a sec to talk about newsletter?
<jsgotangco> cbx33: sure but i sent issue 01 already
<ogra> cbx33, did you like it ? 
<cbx33> oh right ok
<pygi> cbx33, poke?
<cbx33> only just got back in
<cbx33> pygi, Hi
<cbx33> 30.2 ogra ?
<pygi> cbx33, would you be interested to contribute to cookbook even after dapper?
<jsgotangco> cbx33: it seems our newsletter would be merged with the whole project
<jsgotangco> pygi: i see no reason why not
<ogra> cbx33, current is always link to the most recent one ;) but yes, 30.2 too
<pygi> jsgotangco, I am just asking him :) You interested in contributing to cookbook? :)
<jsgotangco> pygi: i wrote the original cookbook :P till i got too busy
<pygi> jsgotangco, hehe :)
<cbx33> sure I'll contribute
<cbx33> esp if we have more time next release
<cbx33> and everyone knows what they are doing
<jsgotangco> if you got a spec, i could probably dive into some parts
<pygi> jsgotangco, for dapper nothing we need anymore, but for edgy there will be a lot :)
<cbx33> pygi, did you kick me outta the cooks :p
<pygi> cbx33, yes. I kicked everyone :)
<cbx33> I would like to be in the cooks
<mhz> jsgotangco: "more humane once a week" ...well, the idea of a section "A coffee with Edubuntu" is for that
<pygi> jsgotangco, cbx33, please request to be accepted :)
<cbx33> I've worked a little on this one, and am going to try my upmost to finish those sections tonight
<pygi> https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-cooks/
* mhz yeah, I am reading logs :D
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra] : Order: http://shipit.edubuntu.org || Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu || Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org |Website http://www.edubuntu.org | MEETING: every Wednesday see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda | Read before installing: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes | please test the daily isos
<cbx33> downloading
<jsgotangco> pygi: deactivated?
<pygi> jsgotangco, yes :-/
<cbx33> ogra, are these cd's going to change tomrorow?
<jsgotangco> Your subscription to this team has been deactivated. You can't join this team.
<jsgotangco> cbx33: most likely
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra] : Order: http://shipit.edubuntu.org || Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu || Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org |Website http://www.edubuntu.org | MEETING: every Wednesday see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda | Read before installing: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes | please test the daily isos and report at https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Testing/Current
<pygi> jsgotangco, ah, sorry :-/
<ogra> oh, i'm lucky today, topic didnt overflow :)
<ogra> cbx33, not if you dont find evil bugs :)
<ogra> if they are fine they are the release
<pygi> cbx33, you apply for team pls? :)
<cbx33> ok excellent
<cbx33> pygi, I have
<pygi> cbx33, saw, approved
<mhz> Yagisan: the prob. with license is that wikis have always been oriented to be that.. just wikis. Available for everyone to edit and use its knowledge, with or without stating source.
<pygi> jsgotangco, you are back :)
<Yagisan> mhz: we have a word for using something without stating it's source. plagiarism. It gets you kicked out of uni
<Yagisan> mhz: no. I do no agree to removing freedoms from the wiki
<Yagisan> mhz: if we insist on doing that, then insist on mass relicensing all code in ubuntu to BSD then
<Yagisan> mhz: it is the same removal of freedoms
<mhz> Yagisan: oh, NOW I see your point
* Yagisan notes some people feel BSD is free. Thats why MS uses it for its networking stack
<Yagisan> mhz: I'm glad you do.
<Yagisan> mhz: you certainly don't need to agree with me though (but it's nice if you do)
* Yagisan feels cranky every time he sees that email. I feel it spits in my face for contributing
<jsgotangco> Yagisan: its really subjective
<jsgotangco> but please don't troll here 
* Yagisan tries not to
<cbx33> the cdimages server is really slow today
<mhz> pygi: cbx33: I have always been interested in contributing to cookbook and alike. Problems I had in near past stopped me from contributing for dapper for a very  long time. Nowdays, I am trying to be more active (please note, 'trying'). However, my only weapons are MoinMoin knowledge and OpenOffice.org :)  Now, a very important factor for me is: Everytime I have written stuff in English (not very good on that, just ok) I have felt I must translate into Spanis
<mhz> h, and viceversa. That is an issue to me (
<ogra> cbx33, rsynced fine for me
<cbx33> mhz, I understand that
<ogra> i even got the DVD in 20mins today
<cbx33> we all have other commitments
* Yagisan tries to chill out with a caffinated drink
<mhz> Yagisan: hmm, that is why I said "see your point", which is faaaar from agreeings :D (just kidding)
<pygi> mhz, wanna be "Spanish translator" ? :)
<cbx33> mhz, as far as I know we will continue to work with moin right pygi ?
<pygi> cbx33, indeed
<pygi> there will be a docbook version, but I and people who know about it will handle that
<cbx33> pygi, I'm ok with doc book
<pygi> cbx33, I know you are, but not all people are :)
<cbx33> I can help with the transferance if you need it
<mhz> pygi: I personally prfer to write instead of translating (this latter is tedious, though that is my only degree).
<pygi> cbx33, you'll just help me converting to docbook when it needs :)
<cbx33> no no I was just offering help
<pygi> cbx33, yes, thanks for that :)
<cbx33> mhz, i understand
<pygi> mhz, that is also nice :)
<cbx33> right ok, what's the time....
<cbx33> 17:00
<pygi> We are proofreading things anyway, so english wont be problem
<cbx33> i have 5 hours to test 4 installs of edubuntu, do some paid work and write the chapters for the cookbook
<mhz> pygi: anywasy, today, I am translating Using Edubuntu (and will start to work on the whole edubuntu drupal this week, little by little), and gotta translate newsletter today, too. :)
<cbx33> nice mhz 
<ogra> cbx33, the cookbook is really nor release critica
<ogra> L
<pygi> mhz, nice :)
<pygi> ogra, ergh, ofcourse it is :)
<ogra> the CDs are
<cbx33> ogra, noted
<cbx33> :p
<mhz> cbx33: so, my wondering is still: To write or to translate
<pygi> mhz, nice, no need to work on cookbook for now, for edgy it will be important
<pygi> I want to get a great team :)
<cbx33> pygi, it will be an awesome team
<ogra> pygi, not as important as the CD testing now
<mhz> yeah, I prefer to write, absolutely. It is totally inspiring
<pygi> ogra, indeed :P
<cbx33> are getting localisation for drupal?
* cbx33 loves writing too
<pygi> mhz, please apply for team :)
<ogra> and since cbx33 is the only one wanting to help today, i'd appreciate if he doesnt write on cookbook chapters now
<mhz> cbx33: so, indeed, edgy will require lots of work on cookbook
<pygi> mhz, https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-cooks/
<pygi> cbx33, if you want mhz can take over for today?
<mhz> pygi: even when not using xml or alike?
<cbx33> of course
<cbx33> I'll try and do both if I can
<cbx33> but cd's come first
<ogra> in case someone didnt get the hidden hint in my last sentence: PLEASE HELP TESTING !!
<cbx33> and unfortunately paidwork before that :p
<mhz> pygi: take over? hmmm, lost me
<cbx33> mhz, pygi needs help with a few chapters
<pygi> mhz, there is something cbx33 was supposed to do today...but you can take over if you have time
<cbx33> pygi, if it can wait till tomorrow I'll have much more time to write
<mhz> ogra: hehehe, sure I did. I was on my way to the lab until I read Jerome mentioned CC meeting
* mhz has not been in CC meetings for last 3 months or so
<ogra> mhz, i hope that will be dropped today, nobody has time to hold a meeting currently
<mhz> ogra: would be better to drop, indeed.
<jsgotangco> ogra: dvd finished in 30 min here (rsync)
<ogra> jsgotangco, wow !
<pygi> mhz, so thoughts?
<ogra> but it will get updated again ...
<ogra> the live iso isnt done yet
<ogra> oh, actually it is !
<mhz> pygi: thoughts about something cbx33 was supposed to do today but has not time ? (still wondering what) :D
* jsgotangco groans
<pygi> mhz, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowToCookEdubuntu/Worksheet
<pygi> everything in part II that wasnt written
<cbx33> chapter II
* mhz tabbing
<cbx33> sections 4,5,6,7
<cbx33> right I gotta work now guys
<cbx33> I'll be back to test soon
<ogra> great, thanks ! :)
<cbx33> ogra, what is prority to test I'll be doing i386 installs
<cbx33> that ok?
<ogra> yep
<cbx33> expect i hope 4 done by the end of the day
<ogra> cool
<pygi> mhz, any chance you could do it?
<ogra> i'll do the full set anyway from now on for each new iso
<pygi> and apply for team while at that :)
<jsgotangco> the rsync became slloooowww
<ogra> :(
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<mhz> pygi: nope :(, mainly because if I do, I wont translate the drupal (needed for tomorrow so I can proffread it in spanish) nor the newsletter today. Unless, you provide some guidance in what exactly you need me to work/check/write
<pygi> mhz, ah, ok :-/
<mhz> oh, when i say "needed for tomorrow" is because my personal goal is to provide spanishspeakers with that info ready to digest and hope they get motivated to wake up and collaborate a bit
<pygi> mhz, no problems, enjoy
<ogra> dapper-live-i386.iso
<ogra>    266249763  36%    7.11MB/s    0:01:04
<ogra> whee
<mhz> pygi: however, I can commit to, as soon as I can get those translations done, I can start with cookbook stuff
<mhz> but that wont be today, i am sure
<pygi> mhz, no problem, just relax
* jsgotangco thinks the last rsync trashed his amd64 iso
<Yagisan> ogra: I want your bandwidth
<mhz> relax? impossible!
<ogra> Yagisan, 2M
<mhz> :)
<ogra> Yagisan, which is the second slowest i can get in that city :)
<pygi> mhz, I shall put you into team :)
<Yagisan> :( my bandwidth sucks, and it is the fastest I can get
<mhz> pygi: sure
<jsgotangco> the best i could do is 2MB/s
<pygi> mhz, you got another team in your list :P
<mhz> pygi: "You are an active member of this team. You can't join this team."
<pygi> mhz, well, you are already a member :)
<jsgotangco> dapper-install-i386.iso 728932352 100%   11.72MB/s    0:00:59  (1, 100.0% of 1)
<mhz> py:)
<cbx33> :(
* cbx33 's speed is less than quick
<jsgotangco> ogra: i though we're not goig to do the "alternate" disc naming?
<cbx33> grrr.....1 hr left for download
<cbx33> and no i can't rsync
<cbx33> :(
<cbx33> 60Kbps
<cbx33> are there no mirrors that are faster
<ere> I plan to implement a thin client solution with ubuntu in a primary school during the summer. Do you think a Dell poweredge 2850 2U rack server is a good choice? The configuration I consider is: 2 Xeon 3Ghz, 4GB ram, 73 + 2x146GB (sw raid 1) SCSI Drives. The server will be connected with gigabit ethernet to a switch where the thin clients also are connected (a VLAN for thin clients)
<pygi> ere, nice :)
<ogra> sounds good
<ere> I think I will backup with rsync to cheap SATA/PATA drives in a log/backup server
<ere> that is in a different building
<ere> do you think such a server can handle 30 concurrent users running gnome, openoffice, mozilla thunderbird, etc?
<pygi> ere, yup, trust me it can :)
* pygi did that on much lower-end server ;P
<Bluekuja> hello pygi
<ere> okay :) And hopefully it will have some breath left to function as a fileserver for some thick clients / laptops
<mhz> ere: however, please do report results when implemented :)
<mhz> Bluekuja: hi there!
<Bluekuja> ohh mhz: hello man
<Bluekuja> how are you? :)
<Bluekuja> what happened to cookbook team?
<Bluekuja> i received an email before
<pygi> hey Andrea
<Bluekuja> hey mario
<pygi> Bluekuja, I took it over :P
<Bluekuja> oh why?
<pygi> because the ex-team wasnt doing much of a anything? :)
<mhz> Bluekuja: got time for Chapter II, 4,5,6,7 ?
<Bluekuja> pygi: lol
<Bluekuja> mhz: let me check
<Bluekuja> what is it about
<mhz> Bluekuja: cbx33 and pygi are the ones,please.
<Bluekuja> https://launchpad.net/products/edubuntu.cookbook
* mhz is trying to undertand CC meeting discussion :)
<Bluekuja> doesnt work
<pygi> Andrea - : cbx33 and pygi are the ones,please.
<Bluekuja> oh oki,  mauricio np
<Bluekuja> mario fix that page
<pygi> Andrea, what is wrong with it? :P
<pygi> we dont use that page anymore :)
<pygi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowToCookEdubuntu/Worksheet - to see chapters
<Bluekuja> oh nice
<Bluekuja> anyway i wasnt a edubuntu cookbook team member
<pygi> Part II, 4,5,6,7 chapter need part
<pygi> aha,oki then :)
<n1ws2> hi bluekuja
<Bluekuja> hi n1ws2
<n1ws2> how are you
<Bluekuja> fine tnx, you?
<n1ws2> oh fine
<Bluekuja> anyway mario , i can work on it
<Bluekuja> i don't know when
<Bluekuja> but maybe i can add more content to other pages
<Bluekuja> like working ones
<pepsy> hi bluekuja
<n1ws2> ok let work
<cbx33> Bluekuja, it needs to be done today
<Bluekuja> oh great
<cbx33> or should I say pygi needs it for today
<n1ws2> yes
<Bluekuja> hehe yes
<cbx33> I'm busy testing i386 isos
<cbx33> but if I get time later I will do it
<n1ws2> it need to be done today
<pepsy> what says life with u
<pygi> Bluekuja, indeed, today :-/
<n1ws2> plz, try to create time and let do it
<Bluekuja> pygi: aww
<pygi> Bluekuja, I'll just write it, no worries
<Bluekuja> pygi: okie perfect, sorry if i cant do it now
<pygi> Bluekuja, no need to be sorry
<Bluekuja> pygi: mario ;) , we can meet this summer, what do you think?
<Bluekuja> you're not so far away from here
<pygi> blue-frog, I ain't coming to Italy this summer
<Bluekuja> who's blue-frog? :D
<pygi> ergh, damn tab :P
<Bluekuja> hehe
<pygi> Bluekuja*
<pygi> And I am afraid you'll eat me :-P
<Bluekuja> lol
<Bluekuja> anyway just ping me if you decide to come
<petarl> hello
<Bluekuja> hello petarl
<petarl> does anyone know how to chroot clients on edubuntu 5.10?
<Bluekuja> wait i give you a wiki page
<Bluekuja> that you can read
<Bluekuja> i hope to find it
* mhz cheers Bluekuja to find it
<petarl> ok
<Bluekuja> mhz: lol
<mhz> :)
<mhz> pygi: "
<mhz> The comment for it 
<mhz> The comment for it was:
<mhz>     If you wanna join the team, just poke me :)"was:
<mhz>     If you wanna join the team, just poke me :)
<mhz> duh! double pasted with middle click button (eeek, sounded too mousy!)
<pygi> mhz, whats with that? :P
<pygi> see? you are part of team...
<pygi> https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-cooks/
* mhz rechecks
<pygi> mhz, do you see yourself there? :P
<petarl> Bluekuja> any luck?
<mhz> pygi: yeah, thx
<pygi> mhz, hehe :) I just added same comment while reactivating you
<pygi> sorry for mess
<mhz> no prob.
<Bluekuja> petarl: just a mom, I'm talking
<Bluekuja> with someone 
<jsgotangco> JaneW: madonna's bra???
<Bluekuja> mhz: mauricio can you check it too?
<Bluekuja> oh jerome
<ogra> <jsgotangco> ogra: i though we're not goig to do the "alternate" disc naming?
<ogra> jsgotangco, where did you see that ? 
<ogra> we're not, thats right
<Bluekuja> hello ogra
<jsgotangco> ogra: the headers in cdimage.u.c said "alternate" but the image name is correct
<Bluekuja> can you suggest petarl a good wiki to read for chroot in edubuntu?
<ogra> Bluekuja, not now, no, we're just rolling a release CD
<Bluekuja> ogra: okie, oliver np ;)
<mhz> Bluekuja: check what?
<ogra> jsgotangco, i'll talk to Kamion once we have the isos fixed
<Bluekuja> mhz: a wiki page for chroot 
<mhz> Bluekuja: mean, get url for howto?
<Bluekuja> yeah for petarl
<ogra> man chroot
<petarl> i tried finding it on google but no success
<ogra> there is no magic in it
<ogra> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 
<ogra> that'll make you root in the client environment
<petarl> ogra> i know that, but i how to chroot LTSP client machines in that directory?
<Bluekuja> petarl: follow ogra's suggestions, he knows everything about it
<ogra> petarl, i dont understand what you mean 
<ogra> the client machines use /opt/ltsp/i386 as / 
<petarl> not on my server, users can see the server's / when they start File Browser
<ogra> sure
<ogra> thats how its supposed to be
<ogra> could someone explain petarl how ltsp works ? 
<petarl> so, how do i setup that they see /opt/ltsp/i386 as /?
<ogra> you cant
<ogra> and its not supposed to be
<ogra> sorry but i cant do more support now, else we wont have a release
<petarl> ok, thanx
<ogra> the others here should be able to explain you how ltsp works
<Bluekuja> petarl: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PaulSchulz?action=fullsearch&context=180&value=ltsp&titlesearch=Titoli
<mhz> petarl: simple..
<Bluekuja> ops not that one
<Bluekuja> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTSPHowTo?highlight=%28ltsp%29
<Bluekuja> this sorry
<Bluekuja> i was watching a member candidate wiki page
<mhz> petarl: LTPS is actually using an entire OS from a client with no more than ethernet card and RAM
<petarl> ok, I get it how LTSP works, but I thought I can limit users in /opt/ltsp/i386
<mhz> petarl: that means, the client is acutally using Server's resources
<ogra> Bluekuja, argh, please dont promote that, thats how to set up ltsp.org ltsp on hoary, totally unrelated
<Bluekuja> ogra: sorry i was trying to give petarl more info as possible
<Bluekuja> :)
<mhz> petarl: let's say I have no DVD drive, but the server does. Then via LTSP I can happily use DVD inside the drive
<ogra> petarl, you obviously think that you an make users see /opt/ltsp/i386 as / so you didnt get yet how ltsp works :)
<petarl> it seems like I didn't :)
<petarl> thank you for the info
<ogra> ;)
<ogra> the *client* uses /opt/ltsp/i386 as /
<ogra> but everything that happens in X (even on the client) happens on the server once you logged in
<petarl> yup, right, I got it now, I was mixing clients with users
<ogra> it is identical to the case wher your user is logged in on the server directly
<petarl> would it be possible to run X on the client?
<ogra> the chroot stuff is only used to run the underlying system to boot the client, its not accessible by users
<ogra> X runs on the client and executes your login manager
<ogra> which in turn establishes the login of the user *directly* on the server
<ogra> i know its not easy to understand :)
<petarl> well, I understand now, thank you for explaining :)
<petarl> so the only way to limit users is to make the directories in / of the server inaccessible to them?
<ogra> no
<ogra> they need to be readable
<ogra> i.e. you wont be able to log in if /etc/passwd isnt readable
<ogra> why would you want to hide that stuff ? 
<mhz> petarl: you limit users in the server side (the real /)
<ogra> they will not be able to write to it
<mhz> petarl: example:  adduser tester
<mhz> petarl: then you set permissions to that user, as you would normally do
<mhz> (groups and stuuff)
<petarl> I want to use Edubuntu for internet caffe, so I'm trying to limit users in every possible way :)
<mhz> petarl: then, adding users like explained will give them access to write to their /homes only
<mhz> unless you add them to groups like cdrom, audio, etc
<mhz> petarl: IF you add them to admin group, then they may have 'sudo' access
<LaserJock> yeah, I'm interesting in locking down the server too, does sabayon do that?
<ogra> yes, but breaks with ltsp if you dont have created a profile for every user
<petarl> mhz> if I add them to those groups they will only be able to read?
<mhz> LaserJock: but 'adduser' will only add target user to his own group, then... server is not 'under attack'
<mhz> petarl: do this test:   $ adduser test1
<petarl> with 'useradd' I can specify group to which user will be added, right?
<mhz> well, yes, with adduser and useradd
<petarl> mhz> ok, keep going :)
<mhz> after user has been created, login with that users and see what he can do
<mhz> and/or, use this command :  $ groups
<petarl> ok, I usually do that with every user I create, but I thought that there is a way to hide / system from users
<mhz> petarl: hmmm, nope, unless your FileManager lets you do so
<ogra> i'd rather suggest using the gui for adduser (the user and groups admion)
<mhz> ogra: ohhh, right!
<mhz> :D
<ogra> it has everything available with explanations of the groups and all
<petarl> mhz, ogra, Bluekuja, thanx for all the help, I have to go now, but I'll try to report if I had any success
<petarl> bye
<mhz_init0> ogra: will, test in Lab in a couple of hours
<cbx33> 25 mins till iso downloaded
<cbx33> grrrr
<ogra> live is apparently oversized :/
<cbx33> oh no not again
<cbx33> sorry ogra 
<ogra> pitti added too many languages
<ogra> i did the radical approach now and removed 6 
<cbx33> yikes
<LaserJock> 6 out of?
<cbx33> hey LaserJock 
<cbx33> howz you
<bddebian> LaserJock!
<cbx33> hi bddebian 
<ogra> LaserJock, 14
<bddebian> Heya cbx33
<LaserJock> hi bddebian and cbx33 
<LaserJock> ogra: and how much does that give us?
<ogra> LaserJock, should be enough according to pitti
<ogra> its only 5M on amd64 and ~2M on i386
<LaserJock> hmm, seems like langpacks are a killer for everybody
<ogra> yep
<ogra> pitti broke a lot :)
<ogra> seems ubuntu-server is 230M oversized *g*
<LaserJock> goodness sakes
<blue-frog> oh oh cameroon strikes back :)
* ogra is off for some ppc testing
<bddebian> ogra: Enjoy :-)
<LaserJock> cbx33: have you done any more on gisomount today?
<williams402> Anyone out there willing to help a new user figure out a thin-clinet issue?
<williams402> thin-client
<Yagisan> not if you need an answer in 1 minute and 21 seconds from typing it 
<LaserJock> exactly
<ajayc> Yagisan, HI!!!!!!!!!!!
<LaserJock> we need a bot that can autoreply "All of our Edubuntu representitives are busy right now, but your question  is important to us. Please stay in the channel"
<ajayc> Yagisan, ?
<Yagisan> ajayc: G'day
<ajayc> why not at my chan?
<Yagisan> LaserJock: please no
<Yagisan> ajayc: because I'm training Fedora packagers for my last software release on Monday
<Yagisan> ajayc: and as a result, I'm up way past my bedtime
<ajayc> come on Yagisan please keep coming there
<LaserJock> Fedora packaging? I've never tried to do a RPM before
<Yagisan> LaserJock: me either. I'm making sure it is consitent naming, file locations, CFLAGS etc with the Ubuntu package
<LaserJock> I just had to do the opposite this weekend :-)
<Yagisan> LaserJock: I'm upstream. I get to decide best practice >;)
<LaserJock> hehe
<cbx33> LaserJock, no no more today
<cbx33> ogra just burnt the cd's
<cbx33> ready to test :D
<LaserJock> well, I think my little packaging project is done, so maybe I can actually look at code today :-)
<cbx33> oooooooooooooooooooooohhh amazing
<bddebian> heh
<Burgwork> LaserJock, you are going to be paid for your "little packaging project" :)
<LaserJock> really? even if it doesn't work ;-)
<Burgwork> right
<cbx33> heh
<bddebian> Heya Burgwork
<cbx33> hmmm...
<cbx33> ogra, I'm testing
<ogra> cbx33, great
<cbx33> ogra, do you want me to test any with LVM?
<ogra> i386 eorkstation and default were successfull over here, lets see if you can proof that
<ogra> as you like
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> its not on the testing martix on the wikipage though
<cbx33> I'm doing a normal - freespace and workstation erase at the mo
<cbx33> I'll let you know how it goes
<cbx33> then I'll do a normal resize - workstation - manual
<ogra> ok
<cbx33> if that sounds good to you
<cbx33> unless you have any more that are higher priority
<ogra> i'll go for the other ppc stuff soon, so i'll be out here
<cbx33> out of here ?
<ogra> not online
<cbx33> ieeeeeeee !
<cbx33> well i hope all goes well
<cbx33> you know if I had a ppc I'd test taht too
<cbx33> you tested live yet?
<ogra> the are broken
<ogra> *they
<ogra> as i said 
<cbx33> oh that's what I wanted to ask....if there is a swap partition already there
<cbx33> should it use that or create another one?
<cbx33> I can test those tomorrow if needed?
<ogra> it should use that afaik
<cbx33> ok....I'll confirm it didn't last time i installed
<ogra> then it probably shouldnt :)
<cbx33> hehe ok bud :p
<cbx33> take it easy Mr Ogra !
<cbx33> relax all will be fine 
<ogra> i try to
<ogra> ppc didnt create a loopback device, thats a bit worrying
<cbx33> hmmm.....indeed
<ogra> i really wouldnt want to drop ppc from the release
<cbx33> no,
<cbx33> think you can find out what's causing it?
<ogra> we had no ppc isos last time already because thes had a bug at the last day
<cbx33> ah that sux
<ogra> likely an installer or bug
<cbx33> yeh
<ogra> which would mean if it doesnt shiw up in ubuntu that we have to drop ppc
<cbx33> really?
<cbx33> that sux big time
<cbx33> let's cross our fingers that it's gona show up in ubuntu
<cbx33> have you gotten people checking it ?
<ogra> thats what happened last release, its unlikely that we see any codechanges now
<cbx33> ping pygi
<cbx33> oh hes gone
<cbx33> well they're installing ok so far :D
<ogra> yep
<cbx33> hey pygi 
<cbx33> was just looking for you :p
<cbx33> I have a bit of time to work on cookbook now while these isos install
<cbx33> still need the help
<cbx33> ?#
<pygi> cbx33, yup
<cbx33> I'll see what I can do then bud
<pygi> thanks :)
<cbx33> pygi, did you see the post about the CD customisation tool
<cbx33> http://lichota.net/~krzysiek/projects/ubuntu-livecd-customization/
<pygi> cbx33, nop
<cbx33> be nice to hack that up for edubuntu
<pygi> cbx33, who is that person?
<pygi> anyone familiar?
<cbx33> who Krzysztof Lichota?
<cbx33> I've no idea
<ogra> no idea but he probably should contact the LP team :)
<cbx33> but they've posted quite a few times on the list
<ogra> since thats one of the planned functionallitys of LP
<pygi> what's planned functionality?
<cbx33> what remastering live cds?
<pygi> remastering cd's?
<cbx33> WOW
<pygi> nice ogra 
<cbx33> pygi, only trouble is I can't do any screenshots at the moment
<pygi> cbx33, no worries
<cbx33> as all my edubuntu installs are being over written as we speak
<pygi> just put what shoots is needed
<ogra> creating Cds
<Lord_Athur> hi all
<ogra> you can select your set of packages and let LP create your derivative
<ogra> but i'm not sure how far in the future that feature lies, its LP you know :)
<cbx33> ogra, hehe
<cbx33> don;t know if it'd be enough for my ideas of customisation
<cbx33> :D
<ogra> could be 1 year or more still
<LaserJock> yeah, anytime I talk to #launchpad, it is always "eventually"
<ogra> yes, they have too many admin dutys since we switched everything to LP
<ogra> before the guys that are admins now had time for development as well
<Lord_Athur> ogra, I need some cds, for me and for a lot of friends who want to use drapper, so I made requests two for some cds with different accounts, is that cheating?
<cbx33> Lord_Athur, yes
<cbx33> bad Lord_Athur :p
<cbx33> more should become available soon or so I've been told
<Lord_Athur> mmm
<Lord_Athur> what can i do?
<Lord_Athur> i didn't kn ow it was cheating
<cbx33> I don;t know if that's classed as cheating...
<cbx33> I wouldn't have done it but then....I just download one and burn the rest
<cbx33> pygi, what formatting do you need doing on the installation page?
<Lord_Athur> good idea cbx33, can launchpad cancel my two requests?
<cbx33> not sure
<cbx33> ask in #launchpad
<pygi> cbx33, none any more
<pygi> ogra, once upon the time I was working on a feature like that
<pygi> (not integrated to launchpad, ofcourse)
<cbx33> pygi, no reason why we can again :p
<cbx33> can't
<pygi> cbx33, not again what? :)
<cbx33> ogra, it came up with two pacakges need updating 
<cbx33> is that ok?
<ogra> sure
<cbx33> just wondering
<cbx33> we have 2 scribus icons?
<cbx33> damn he's gone
<cbx33> I've tested the normal install using the freespace option
<cbx33> there is no space for that in the Testing matrix
<cbx33> ah ogra you're back
<cbx33> got a quick question
<cbx33> cbx33 I just tested the install CD for edubuntu using the use freespace option but it's not on the matrix
<cbx33> cbx33 should I add it, or have I just wasted an hour
<ogra> it is in the matrix just under a different name
<pygi> cbx33, what are you talking to urself? :)
<cbx33> oh waht's it under?
<cbx33> no i posted somewhere else :p
<cbx33> pygi, how hand holding are we being for this cookbook
<cbx33> same level as installation ?
<pygi> "hand holding"  - phrase explanation?
<cbx33> do we do like
<cbx33> steps a,b,c,d
<cbx33> or a,e,j
<pygi> ergh, I don't get it :)
<cbx33> well in installatio there aer screenshots for every step
<cbx33> are we going to that level for cookbook
<pygi> cbx33, yup
<pygi> that is always good :)
<cbx33> ok
* cbx33 will try
<cbx33> ogra, do new users in edubuntu get added to the sound groups etc?
<ogra> they should i think
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> its handled the same as in ubuntu ... 
<cbx33> will check that later
<cbx33> we have a sick guinea pig now too :()
<cbx33> :(
<cbx33> ogra, what's the freespace option called?
<ogra> note that the UI is a bit weird, final data in the gui tool is only written on "accept" or something like that
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> hmm, youre right, it isnt there
<cbx33> that's what I thought
<ogra> but if you add a row we have to test that everywhere
<ogra> hmm
<cbx33> i think it should be tested tbh
<ogra> (which i cant here)
<cbx33> but that's imho
<cbx33> but if it can't
<cbx33> I'll give you the cbx33 seal of approval
<cbx33> it works
<ogra> well, it could break the whole testplan if we dont find someone who tests that on ppc
<ogra> that doesnt count for mdz... he only checkst the table
<ogra> +
<ogra> oops
<cbx33> i looked for mdz when you were out
<cbx33> sorry to throw a spanner in the works
<ogra> how did you test expert in RC btw ?
<ogra> was there a menu item for it ?
<cbx33> I havn't tested expert yet
<ogra> you tested it in RC
<cbx33> last time there was a ky
<cbx33> F5
<cbx33> i think changes from normal to expert
<ogra> ok, i thought i had seen a menu item 
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> well i didn't see one
<ogra> no there is none, i'm just remembering wrong
<cbx33> ogra, so what am I doing with this freespace install data?
<ogra> live CDs are up 
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> ogra, I'll try to catch those today too
<ogra> do as you think with the freespace thing :)
<ogra> looks like i discovered a nice ppc bug here
<cbx33> well I'm not gonna add a row to the matrix if you think people will jump on me and kill me
<LaserJock> is it alway the live CDs that are oversized or is it a problem for the install cds too?
<ogra> i didnt say that :)
<ogra> LaserJock, that was a prob with the last liveCD build
<cbx33> ok...beat me with sticks till i bleed ubuntu CDs
<ogra> its fixed
* cbx33 opts to add the row and deal with the consequences later
<cbx33> ogra, i didn a workstation install
<cbx33> erase disk
<cbx33> does that count as number 5
<ogra> good
<ogra> if you count them ...
<cbx33> no they have numbers
<cbx33> does a workstation install count for 5 and 8
<ogra> heh, sfllaw doesnt really know edubuntu
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> so waht do you reckon?
<ogra> indeed that should be erase disk with the default install, but since boith versions are already tested and the erase stuff is testing the partitioner only i'd say yes
<ogra> just apply it to 5 and 8
<cbx33> swat I thought
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I'm testing expert mode now
<ogra> ltsp hasnt changed 
<ogra> so dont expect it to work in expert
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> added my ones
* ogra rsyncs live and takes a break while waiting
<cbx33> good for you
<cbx33> that's 4 I've added to the list
<cbx33> just starting the 5th now
<cbx33> and Just about to get live cd
<pygi> ogra, I'll probably get Mac Mini so I guess I could help with testing edgy on ppc
<cbx33> ogra, is tomorrow to laet for testing
<LaserJock> cbx33: i would imagine so :/
<cbx33> ogra, but in expert I think
<cbx33> do you have time to confirm?
<cbx33> eek
<cbx33> bug 
<cbx33> in expert
<LaserJock> hehe, experts need bugs, otherwise they get bored :-)
<cbx33> well
<cbx33> it asks me for my password
<cbx33> but not for my username
<cbx33> bit of a problem area me thinks
<ogra> did you select oem mode ?
<ogra> sounds a bit like :)
<ogra> btw, its never to late for testing, but it will be to late to roll new CDs tomorrow so if you find bugs we wont be able to fix them
<pygi> cbx33, just test it :)
* ogra does more ppc testing ... bbl
<recover> sorry bout that
<cbx33> ogra....did you reply to that
<cbx33> my net dies
<crimsun> ogra's testing ppc
<cbx33> did he say whether my expert bug was a bug or not?
#edubuntu 2006-05-31
<thom_> is there an auto login option for a selected user?
<LaserJock> I believe so
<LaserJock> System->Administration->Login Window
<LaserJock> it's under the Security tab
<thom_> found it thanks
* mdke looks for Pete Savage
<ogra> mdke, he's cbx33 if he's here
<mdke> ogra: guess not
<mdke> I just found a bunch of LTSP documentation which wasn't tagged as documentation, looks like he has been working on it a lot
<ogra> he moved it all into one place recently
<ogra> but there is a lot incomplete
<mdke> yeah, it looks well structured, although there are some pages still hanging loose
<mdke> anyway, I tagged it all
<NewToIRC> hello, anybody out there 
<NewToIRC> hmmm 
<HedgeMage> I'm here
<LaserJock> me too :/
<HedgeMage> darn it, missed him/her
<bddebian> Hello
<ogra> heya
<bddebian> Hi ogra
<Lord_Athur> hi all
* arkan0x is away: .....zzz...b
<Lord_Athur> hi all
<bddebian> Hello Lord_Athur
<Lord_Athur> I had ubuntu breezy installed, but I installed on the computer edubuntu-desktop
<bddebian> OK
<Lord_Athur> now i want to upgrade to drapper, but the internet network works very slowly, with windwos it does everything quickly, what can this be?
<Lord_Athur> bddebian, any idea?+
<bddebian> Same DNS servers?
<bddebian> Is it slow on all Internet activity or just with Ubuntu sites?
<Lord_Athur> :) ubuntu sities
<Lord_Athur> :P
<LaserJock> well, there are a lot of people downloading .iso files an doing upgrades
<Lord_Athur> but ubuntu always works fast
<bddebian> Well they are probably a little busy right now with everyone pulling data/packages to test with :-)
<Lord_Athur> thanks to all
<Lord_Athur> maybe that's why
<Lord_Athur> :P
<LaserJock> Lord_Athur: are you using the main Ubuntu mirror or a local one
<Lord_Athur> the main
<Lord_Athur> well I put the sources list from the ubuntu page, so i think it's the main
<LaserJock> you might try a closer mirror then and see if that is faster
<Lord_Athur> thanks, ti's a good idea
<Lord_Athur> *it's
<Lord_Athur> I'll go the bed :P
<RobNyc_C> hello 
<RobNyc_C> how can I install edubuntu from the ubuntu livecd ?
<bimberi> RobNyc_C: is it a dapper livecd?
<RobNyc_C> yes
<RobNyc_C> the latest 1
<Burgundavia> RobNyc_C, I don't think so
<bimberi> ok, you can do the install and once that's done install the edubuntu-desktop package from the internet
<RobNyc_C> alright 
<RobNyc_C> i thought so, cuz distrowatch only provided 1 iso for download and i guess i was gonna be able to install either edu, ubu or xubu
<Burgundavia> RobNyc_C, where did distrowatch do that?>
<bimberi> RobNyc_C: hmmk - there are isos for edubuntu though
<RobNyc_C> http://distrowatch.com/3463
<RobNyc_C> now i see where it says for other editions
<Burgundavia> hmm, foolish on DW part
<Burgundavia> that was three announcements they crammed into one
<RobNyc_C> lol
<Burgundavia> Ubuntu is very clear about not offering that kind of choice in the installer
<RobNyc_C> well being ubuntu the main 1 thats why
<jsgotangco> mehh
<ogra> moo
<jsgotangco> ogra: embassy is giving me a hard time :/
<ogra> meh
<jsgotangco> :/
<jsgotangco> "we would like to have the french economic office in manila to send a recommendation letter of your business travel"
<jsgotangco> gee a 5 day trip
<ogra> phew
* jsgotangco is hating his nationality more than ever
* ogra can totally understand that
* jsgotangco will probably get his visa (if approved a 2 days before flying)
<ogra> bah
<jsgotangco> how's development?
<ogra> i tested all install CD arches
<jsgotangco> meh i forgot i have to get travel insurance for 30,000
<ogra> we had a rebuild that just finished and i have just done i386 live ... burning amd64
<jsgotangco> when i get back home later i'll rsync
* jsgotangco is in a cafe near the consular office
<jsgotangco> JaneW: ping?
<JaneW> jsgotangco: hi
<jsgotangco> JaneW: are you still handling paris or already turning over work?
<JaneW> jsgotangco: clan is doing it now
<JaneW> clan = the new claire
<jsgotangco> newman?
<jsgotangco> neuman or whatever
<JaneW> I was negotiating with silbs to go for some of the event but it was getting complicated so I am not going at all :/
<JaneW> Newman
<jsgotangco> ok then i sent the email to the right person
<JaneW> 	Claire Newman <claire.newman@canonical.com>
<jsgotangco> JaneW: french embassy is asking me a lot of stuff
<JaneW> jsgotangco: like?
<jsgotangco> JaneW: thanks i already got to talk to her a few weeks ago
<JaneW> we had trouble with the australian embassy
<jsgotangco> "we would like to have the french economic office in manila to send a recommendation letter of your business travel"
<JaneW> eventually mark had to intervene
<JaneW> contact cvd
<jsgotangco> ok
<jsgotangco> thanks
<JaneW> by now she should have a standard letter explaining that Canonical does exisit and does invite people to work events etc
<jsgotangco> is cvd online?
<jsgotangco> althoug i did email clan already but yeah i'll try contacting agian
<bimberi> australian embassy? trouble? surely not :)
<jsgotangco> yeah i went into australia in a breeze
<jsgotangco> without even appearing personally
<jsgotangco> eekkk coffee house net access is expensive (almost out of credits here)
<ajayc> sankarshan, u india?
<sankarshan> ajayc: yes
<ajayc> sankarshan, where in india?
<sankarshan> well i see you are flooding some other channel too
<ajayc> yeah
<ajayc> bcos that channel is for flooding :)
<highvoltage> ogra: hi there
<highvoltage> ogra: how are you?
<ogra> *yawn* hey
<ogra> tired
<highvoltage> heh. up early hey?
<ogra> but not done yet
<ogra> nope, didnt sleep yet
<highvoltage> geez!
<highvoltage> how is edubuntu doing? things coming together?
<ogra> yup, its fine
<ogra> 20060530.2 install was fine on all arches, 20060531 live as well
<bimberi> NZ is too thin
<ogra> to sad we have the 31 image, so i need to completely re-test install (even the change was minor enough to be worth just waving it through)
* bimberi runs
<bimberi> ;P
<bimberi> ogra: on all arch's?
<ogra> yes, six install flavors per arch
<ogra> 3 arches
<ogra> but first i'm finishing up the 12 dvd installs
<bimberi> wow - i bet you're answering install questions without looking by now
<ogra> which questions ? :P
<bimberi> lol
<ogra> i know how to type my name now :)
<ogra> the rest is only hitting the enter key ...
<highvoltage> heh.
<cbx33> ogra: it's ok it wasn't a bug
<cbx33> it was oem mode
<cbx33> mornin all :p
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<cbx33> ogra: any reason why all my testing results were wiped form the matrix?
<ogra> becausee sfllaw wants only the results for the most recent build, i had to beg already to keep the ones from tonights image
<cbx33> but my were from last nights images
<cbx33> i tested 30.2
<cbx33> do we need to test 31 now?
<ogra> not fro .2
<ogra> yes
<cbx33> bugger me
<cbx33> alll that work
<cbx33> did you want me to test 31?
<cbx33> i was just about to report that the expert install I tested worked fine
<ogra> i'm already done with the liveCDs
<cbx33> nice
<cbx33> do we have ppc now?
<ogra> yep mine were fine as well
<ogra> including ltsp
<cbx33> wicked
<cbx33> well I only have 1 machine available to me
<cbx33> but i can install a VM on that if you need me to test an i386
<cbx33> tell canonical to get me a mac for next time :p
<cbx33> and a 64 bits machine
<ogra> indeed, every additional tes would help
<cbx33> then i can test em all :p
<cbx33> ogra: any in particualr you want...or do ya just want me to ....go nuts
<cbx33> pygi: good morning
<cbx33> I'm starting on the cookbook stuff now
<ogra> the gaps in the matrix need filling ;)
<pygi> cbx33, nice :)
<ogra> i didnt do autoresize tests for example
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I'll do those
<cbx33> do you need amd 64 live?
<ogra> all i can get ...
<JaneW> highvoltage: *wave* from across the garden
<cbx33> is there a meeting today?
<cbx33> *cough*
<pygi> JaneW, hey :)
<ogra> only without me
<pygi> mentors can be changed/assigned now, so you can those 3 mentorless 
<pygi> thanks :)
<JaneW> pygi: yay
<JaneW> cbx33: I think so, but a brief one
<pygi> JaneW, you need to read how tho on the list (summer-admins I would say)
<JaneW> cbx33: shall we do the same as last week?
<cbx33> ogra: if i misconfigure xorg during an install
<JaneW> pygi: will do
<cbx33> JaneW: sounds good to me
<cbx33> ie miss off 1024x768 when i really want it
<cbx33> how can i get it back
<cbx33> I've edited xorg.conf and added it to all bit depths
<cbx33> but I really need it to be able to do cookbook stuff
<cbx33> any clues
<highvoltage> JaneW: *waveback*
<JaneW> :)
<cbx33> hey highvoltage 
<cbx33> were those screenshots of use to you
<highvoltage> cbx33: i havnen't extracted them yet. the tarball is in my downloads/inbox folder
* highvoltage extracts them now
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> it's ok just wondering I was so glad i found my backup
<highvoltage> today seems like it will be a bit more peaceful than the last week or so
<cbx33> yup
<highvoltage> ooh, yeah some nice screens there
<cbx33> ;)
<jimjimovich2> hello all
<jimjimovich2> i just want to say that i'm really looking forward to the final release of Edubunt dapper
<jimjimovich2> we're going to switch all our student computers to Edubuntu in June.  Just hoping all goes well.  Got a new server just waiting for the install CD :)
<JaneW> jimjimovich2: cool
<JaneW> jimjimovich2: have you placed your pre-order yet?
<jimjimovich2> we're planning to do a blog every day of the project and post what we learned.  we hope it will be useful for the community
<jimjimovich2> we pre-ordered, yes.  but will probably need to download because we must finish the project in June
<jimjimovich2> We're in Russia, so I think it will take a long time to get the CDs by mail
<highvoltage> ogra: we have on old screenshot in gettingstarted.html in edubuntu-docs
<highvoltage> ogra: it still says 'Install a server' for the one option, but i suppose we can live with that?
<highvoltage> ogra: nice modifications, btw, I'm quite satisfied with the docs we have with edubuntu this time, major improvement over last time :)
<JaneW> jimjimovich2: ah yes and it can take up to 8 weeks after the release for pre-orders to be delivered
<JaneW> jimjimovich2: there is usually a HUGE backlog
<ogra> cbx33, sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg just use the defaults, except for the resolution
<ogra> highvoltage, dapper-updates ;)
* ogra is off for more ppc testing bbl
<cbx33> thanks ogra 
<jimjimovich2> JaneW: It's OK. We'll probably use the shipped CDs to give to other universities and schools
<cbx33> highvoltage: do you want a new screenshot
<cbx33> I'm just about to do an edubuntu install
<JaneW> jimjimovich2: good to hear! :)
<highvoltage> cbx33: we have a new screenshot, it's just too late to change the package now
<cbx33> ah ok
<cbx33> swat ti thought
<cbx33> brb
<noodleman> hey can anyone give me some tech help?
<Burgundavia> noodleman: what sort?
<pygi> Burgundavia, how's the boat going? :)
<Burgundavia> pygi: boat?
<pygi> well, the safety boat :)
<Burgundavia> ah, haven't talked to anselmo is a day or so
<pygi> nice :)
<noodleman> hey
<noodleman> I've messed up the window manager
<noodleman> i can only get a command prompt
<cbx33> pygi: sections can you expand a little on the security section of chap 2
<cbx33> how lower level are we going with the cookbook
<cbx33> limits.conf is a fairly advanced feature
<cbx33> I'll document it if you want.
<cbx33> also, HedgeMage has already written a section on user management
<cbx33> shall we just use that one for the user management for chapter II
<cbx33> and we could add screenshots to both
<pygi> cbx33, if you dont want no need to document for dapper
<pygi> But for edgy we are going to the lowest point :)
<cbx33> oooohhh yeh
<cbx33> pygi: for edgy, we gonna print it on lulu right :D
<pygi> cbx33, "lulu"?
<pygi> for edgy, it's going to be in printed form :)
<cbx33> because It's looking more and more like the cookbook could be come the book that I wanted to write for edubuntu
<cbx33> lulu prints for you, you only pay printing costs
<cbx33> LaserJock printed his packaging guide on there
<pygi> We'll do the real printing :)
* cbx33 's jaw drops
<pygi> cbx33, what? :)
<noodleman> hey, what command could i use to wipe a hard disk?
<noodleman> X server has been corrupted, I figure it's going to just be easiest to wipe everything and start again
<highvoltage> noodleman: you can just choose to do that when you re-install
<highvoltage> noodleman: the installer asks if you want to erase the current disk
<noodleman> i can't get to the installer
<highvoltage> noodleman: how so?
<cbx33> pygi: where we gonna get it printed?
<noodleman> I'm still pretty new to linux but I'm guessing it's because a lot of stuff on the HDs messed up
<cbx33> with lulu we just submit a pdf and they do the rest :D
<pygi> cbx33, some publisher? :)
<noodleman> although, thinking about it, that doesnt make sense
<noodleman> but the computer won't boot into the CD
<noodleman> it would yesterday
<noodleman> *sigh*
<cbx33> pygi: hmmm a publisher would be great
<cbx33> to get the exposure
<cbx33> but lulu could be good too....
<pygi> cbx33, heh :)
<pygi> cbx33, I'll try to see what I can do about publisher once we have Chapters layout for Edgy
<cbx33> excellent
<cbx33> there's gonna be a big think chapter on LTSP
<cbx33> I've pulled most of the chapters together now 
<cbx33> i really want to get AD integration working for edgy
<cbx33> think it would be of real benefit
<cbx33> I'm almost there
<pygi> cbx33, nice :)
* cbx33 almost got a book published once :p
<cbx33> it was on creating 3D graphics
<pygi> cbx33, nice, why not get it published? :)
<cbx33> never finished it
<cbx33> after it got dropped i kinda figured what was the point
<cbx33> but now lulu is available i may oneday
<cbx33> found a bug in something !!
<cbx33> either vmware or edubuntu
<cbx33> during installation when there is a progress bar on screen
<cbx33> press alt+tab
<cbx33> and then ctrl+alt
<cbx33> it stops the installation
<highvoltage> that is odd
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> not sure what's at fault
<cbx33> but it is unlikely to be vmware
<highvoltage> ctrl+alt is captured by vmware though, so it shouldn't cause the problem
<cbx33> yes i know
<cbx33> but i can still alt+F2
<cbx33> to goto virtual terminals
<cbx33> and I can still run like the ps command to see what's going on
<cbx33> and the processes are just frozen
<cbx33> yup it does it whenever the is a progress bar
<cbx33> I'm gonna report in ubuntu-bugs
<highvoltage> have you checked what happens if you just press alt+tab?
<highvoltage> and then pressing it again after it freezes?
<cbx33> just about to
<highvoltage> perhaps it's a d-i feature of some sorts
<cbx33> it's alt-tab
<cbx33> good call highvoltage
<cbx33> can someone check this out on another machine please
<blue-frog> cbx33 check what?
<cbx33> no need
<blue-frog> ok
<cbx33> jsgotangco: you've been testing havn't you
<cbx33> have you tried hitting alt+tab when there is a progress bar on the screen
<jsgotangco> cbx33: i haven't tested today (i just arrived)
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> i just need someone to try this out
<cbx33> you can try it even when it says detecing hardware to find cd-rom
<HedgeMage> hi, all
<cbx33> hi HedgeMage 
<cbx33> howz the cookbook
<HedgeMage> cbx33: coming, slowly
<cbx33> I'm gonna be helping out today
<cbx33> but i just noticed a bug in di
<HedgeMage> cbx33: I had a crazy weekend, so I'm just now transcribing the last of my stuff
* HedgeMage nods
<HedgeMage> I couldn't help but laugh at the last meeting minutes where it was noted that some cookbook work was "being stored locally"
<HedgeMage> In this case "stored locally" roughly translates to "scratched out on the backs of napkins, army paperwork, and other stuff jammed in a folder in HedgeMage's backpack"
<cbx33> indeed :p
* HedgeMage giggles
<HedgeMage> I guess "stored locally" is less verbose, at least, though it somehow brings up images of USB sticks or laptop hard drives in my mind, lacking the visceral quality of the real state of the cookbook :P
<cbx33> heh
<cbx33> think you'll be ready today?
<HedgeMage> Yep
<cbx33> nice
<HedgeMage> transcribing the last of what I have as we speak
<cbx33> I'm working on the missing secions from chap 2
<HedgeMage> at least I can read my own handwriting ;)
<HedgeMage> cool
<cbx33> HedgeMage: i ave screenshots
<cbx33> i was going to use them for my user admin bit
<HedgeMage> cool
<cbx33> but i see you already have written one
<cbx33> we could share :p
<HedgeMage> hehe :)
<HedgeMage> Mine has gaps... I'm trying to transcribe and proof the other stuff before I tackle "look and feel" and "printing" so if anyone wants a go at those
<HedgeMage> I think this version of the cookbook is largely an exercise in getting words on paper (or in this case, on wiki) and that the cookbook will really become something with Edgy (not that our present stuff isn't cool, it's just not as cool as it can be)
<cbx33> did you want my screenshots for your user admin bit?
<cbx33> HedgeMage: yeh, we'll have a printed version for edgy
<cbx33> i was going to write an edubuntu book
<cbx33> but looks like i can pool my efforts into the cookbook
<pygi> cbx33, well, we'll have the real edubuntu book for edgy, so no worries
<pygi> I just need to make a team to see who really wanna work on it
<cbx33> pygi: i'll be in on it
<pygi> cbx33, yes, I know you will :)
<pygi> I'll need to see if jsgotangco and highvoltage are interested in "real book" as well
<cbx33> ah i see
<pygi> If they are, the team is good enough
<jsgotangco> real book = print?
* HedgeMage nods
<HedgeMage> yep
<pygi> jsgotangco, yes ;)
<pygi> cbx33, well, they could be of use, dont you think? :)
<jsgotangco> sure but don't expect me to jump suddenly, i currently am doing one with a publisher and we're expecting it to end by next month
<cbx33> well as i was going to write one anyway :p
<cbx33> jsgotangco: an edubuntu book?
<pygi> cbx33, well, you going to work on your own or with us? :P
<jsgotangco> cbx33: no
<cbx33> pygi: with you of course
* HedgeMage bats her eyes at cbx33 and tries to look lovable
<cbx33> no point putting my efforts into just my own effort
<cbx33> awwww
<cbx33> HedgeMage: you won it really
<HedgeMage> hehe :)
<HedgeMage> yay!
* HedgeMage puts her nose to the grindstone again
* jsgotangco will just sort out this silly visa requirement thing bbl
* jsgotangco has hassled clan and cvd too much already
<HedgeMage> pygi: you know what I'm going to do if this gets made into a print book? I'm going to buy two copies and mail them in turn to each of the authors for signatures -- one for me and one for my mom.
<cbx33> awww
<HedgeMage> (my mom's all cute about stuff like that, and I just like reminders of cool people I work with)
<cbx33> HedgeMage: no reason we can't put it into a pdf and print it on lulu
<jsgotangco> what is the license of the current cookbook?
<pygi> jsgotangco, none yet :-P
<HedgeMage> jsgotangco: uhhh... I don't think we've come up with anything more official than "be nice" yet
<pygi> HedgeMage, we can put the current book on Lulu
<pygi> ergh
<pygi> cbx33, current one may go to Lulu
<HedgeMage> what's lulu?
<pygi> but I would like the edgy to be real publisher
<HedgeMage> one-offs like cafepress but for books?
<cbx33> nice
<pygi> HedgeMage, something like thq5
<pygi> that*
<pygi> cafepress can also do book
<pygi> cbx33, do you agree with that?
<pygi> HedgeMage, no reason why we cant all meet once the book is published :)
<HedgeMage> pygi: heh that would be cool, but probably beyond my budget
<cbx333> sure
<HedgeMage> wb cbx33 
<HedgeMage> cbx333: even
<cbx333> sorry bout that
<HedgeMage> np it happens :)
<HedgeMage> grrr... I'll brb under a different nick
<HedgeMage> having problems with people who don't know what an off-duty staffer is :(
<Susan> Hi, all
<Susan> I miss anything interesting?
* Susan points to her HedgeMage cloak so no one wonders who she is
<cbx333> who's Susan :p
* cbx333 sets up the interrogation room
<pygi> cbx333, hedgekage :)
<Susan> ROFL
<pygi> ergh, hedgemage :)
<cbx333> hehe
* Susan tickles cbx333 mercilessly before getting back to work
* cbx333 giggles like elmo for sesame street
<cbx333> *from
<Susan> LOL
<cbx333> brb
<JaneW> we are having an event here shortly, I will be my best to be back before the meeting starts - but a desperately need a bit of real-life socialising, so I am going to enjoy!
<Susan> JaneW: go for it!
<Susan> have fun :)
<pygi> JaneW, enjoy :)
<JaneW> I'll be back
<Susan> highvoltage: ping!
<jsgotangco> did we hit gold?
<cbx33> hi all
<Susan> jsgotangco: just wanted to let highvoltage know about a typo on the web site (a kind of bad one)
<cbx33>  i want to get a screenshot of using the gnome menus
<cbx33> like system
<cbx33> apart from doing it on a vmware machine anyone else got any other ways?
<jsgotangco> i could probably edit it
<cbx33> PrntScrn doesn't work
<cbx33> neither does imagemagick
<Susan> jsgotangco: on the "Help and Support" page irc.freenode.net is listed as irc.freenode.org (which doesn't exist)
<jeffwaddell> cbx33 what are you trying to capture again?
<cbx33> the system gnome menu
<cbx33> up the top
<cbx33> i want to show getting to users and groups
<jeffwaddell> give me a minute to think about it....
<cbx33> thank you
<jeffwaddell> cbx33 i think you will have bind a command to a keypress to manage that
<cbx33> jeffwaddell: any ideas?
<pygi> cbx33, like one month after dapper release, I suggest we all (people who will write book) upgrade to edgy
<cbx33> yes
<jeffwaddell> cbx33, I believe xwd will do the screen capture the trick is having it fire off at the correct moment
<pygi> cbx33, Until then, we can write down general things
<jeffwaddell> cbx33, to do that will probably require you to bind that command to a keypress
<jeffwaddell> cbx33, the way to bind that to a keypress that comes to my mind is the hotkeys program
<cbx33> ok cool thanks
<jeffwaddell> cbx33, of course if you can bind xwd - you could probably bind imagemagick just as easily and that would be better
<cbx33> no imagemagick looks fo the mouse to grab which window
<jeffwaddell> cbx33 well with xwd you can give it the -root option which *should* get around that
<jeffwaddell> actually you might be able to write a script with a sleep and then have it do the screen capture without bothering with hotkeys...hmm, just a moment
<cbx33> jeffwaddell: any idea how i convert that dump
<jeffwaddell> hold on still testing
<pygi> cbx33, I'll have to be away a bit at 12:00 UTC probably for like half an hour, so we'll extend the period for half an hour
<cbx33> ok, I'm going to have to leave work early to get home
<cbx33> so i may be a bit late back too
<jeffwaddell> cbx33, so I know that the script with a delay works as I just did it...now for converting it to png...
<cbx33> ok i got it 
<cbx33> thanx jeffwaddell 
<jeffwaddell> cbx33, you got how to convert or ?
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> GIMP
<jeffwaddell> cbx33 you could just use xwud to display the image and use imagemagick as per usual
<cbx33> GIMP works fine with the xwd
<cbx33> thanks for that jeffwaddell 
<jeffwaddell> no problem
<Susan> Ugh, eyelids drooping... time to put the teakettle on.
<cbx33> Susan: did you want me to add screen shots into your admin user section?
<jeffwaddell> Susan, I know why my eyelids are dropping...why are yours?
<Susan> cbx33: that would be awesome
<Susan> jeffwaddell: because it is 4am here
<Susan> jeffwaddell: and I got 2 hours of sleep last night, and none so far tonight
<Susan> At this rate, I might get to bed about the time hubby leaves for work... :o
<jeffwaddell> susan...yeah I'm not sure what time it is here in Seattle the only clock I have to look at is set to GMT/UTC
<cbx33> heheh
* cbx33 is on GMT/UTC but are you using BST :
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> or DST
<cbx33> or nothing
<Susan> jeffwaddell: 4am, I am in Olympia
<jeffwaddell> wow that's really cool
<Susan> cbx33: I'm on PDT (Pacific Daylight-savings Time)
<Susan> jeffwaddell: yep :)
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> stpuid time zones
<Susan> hehe yep
<jeffwaddell> stupid sun, ....moving around like that :)
<jsgotangco> use tzwatch
<Susan> rofl
<Susan> jeffwaddell: if you leave now, you could drive here in time to share a cup of tea with me during the Edubuntu meeting :P
* jsgotangco forgot its wednesday
* Susan notes that her kettle makes up to 2.5 quarts
<jsgotangco> stupid brain
<jeffwaddell> Susan, that's is very tempting...I don't think I have enough gas to do it, though...
<jeffwaddell> Susan, trafic would be great though...I'm sure I'll be in Olympia sometime soon as I have friends there
<Susan> awww
<Susan> hehe
<Susan> jeffwaddell: I run a great FOSS user group here if you're ever interested.
<jeffwaddell> 2.5 quarts seems like a really big kettle
<jeffwaddell> susan, definately interested in user groups
<Susan> jeffwaddell: meetings are the third Thursday evening each month 6:30pm-8pm local time, and we're having a Dapper release party tomorrow night (pool party!)
<jsgotangco> wow
* jsgotangco dives in
<cbx33> i don;t tink I'll be bale to make it to the meeting today which sux cos I havn't missed one yet
<Susan> cbx33: I miss them often :P
<Susan> silly people and your different time zones...
<cbx33> can someone do me a favour if they are going
* Susan sets the world to HST (HedgeMage Standard Time)
<Susan> cbx33: sure, what's that?
<cbx33> ping JaneW highvoltage 
<cbx33> Susan: oh great
<cbx33> can some one put a marker at the start and end of the meeting and copy and paste the log
<Susan> I will be there, and hopefully also awake/coherent :P
<cbx33> if it's not going to be in #ubuntu-meeting
<cbx33> but then also f it is too please
<cbx33> so i can take minutes
<Susan> It'll be in #ubuntu-meeting
<Susan> but I will do that, just tell me where the log goes
<cbx33> mail it to me :p
<Susan> cbx33: I *think* I have your email but can you shoot it at me again just in case?
<cbx33> petesavage@ubuntu.com
<jeffwaddell> susan, when you get a chance drop details of the meeting (directions to the pool party) to jefferydouglaswaddell@gmail.com
<Susan> okay, cool, will do.
<Susan> jeffwaddell: will do that once I get this cookbook stuff typed up
<jsgotangco> JaneW: kinky
* jsgotangco goes back to brain training
<jeffwaddell> susan, great
<Susan> jeffwaddell: if I manage to catch up on sleep, I will be making a special edubuntu-themed cake :)
<Susan> if not, I'll be lazy and settle for cookies or something
<jeffwaddell> susan, I'm already setting my intention on being there, I'll probably bring the whole family :)
<Susan> jeffwaddell: awesome :)
<Susan> jeffwaddell: I assume you know how to find I-5 ?  Directions from there okay?
<jeffwaddell> direction from I-5 will be good
* Susan joins #ubuntu-meeting now so she doesn't forget
<jeffwaddell> Susan, do you happen to know of anyone else is intending to come from Seattle?  Maybe could do some ridesharing
<JaneW> jsgotangco: ;)
<jsgotangco> :D
<JaneW> cbx33: we were having lunch
<pygi> HedgeMage, dont forget to upload stuff
<pygi> talk to you later
<pygi> JaneW, bon apetit
<HedgeMage> pygi: working on it as we speak
<HedgeMage> jeffwaddell: not AFAIK, we only have one other Seattle person and I haven't been able to get ahold of him :(
<HedgeMage> jeffwaddell: would be nice, too, since he can't drive :/
<jeffwaddell> HedgeMage, that's cool just checking
<cbx33> JaneW: no bigge
<cbx33> was gonna say I'll be travelling home during the meeting today
<cbx33> can someone copy and paste so i can take the minutes
<JaneW> cbx33: oic 
<JaneW> cbx33: sure
<JaneW> cbx33: lunch is over so we (I am anyway) are back now
<cbx33> sorry to let you all down
<jeffwaddell> <me> thinks I should'nt sit in this chair like this for more than 4 hours...oops
<cbx33> hey ogra 
<cbx33> found a bug
<cbx33> but it won't be fixed before release
<cbx33> try pressing alt+tab during a progress bar in d-i
<cbx33> freezes the install
<cbx33> but the keyboard still responds
<ogra> did you tell Kamion ?
<cbx33> and you can spwan a shell in F2
<cbx33> yes i did
<HedgeMage> brb checking on my tea
<MyNameIsNotBob> is it possible for me, without using a cd, to change my Dapper Drake ubuntu install to an edubuntu install?
* HedgeMage thinks
<HedgeMage> ogra: I think this is one of your many areas of expertise ^^^^^^^^
<ogra> HedgeMage, i'm up since 30h now and was just told i have to start over with my testing, i'm not able to help anybody now
<HedgeMage> ogra: ouch! good luck
* HedgeMage hugs ogra and makes him some tea
<jeffwaddell> ogra, anyway anybody can help you?
<jsgotangco> jeffwaddell: download the builds and test if it installs
<jsgotangco> dinner brb
<HedgeMage> MyNameIsNotBob: I would *think* it's just a matter of using synaptic to grab the edubuntu desktop and apps, but I'm really no expert.
<cbx33> ogra: WWHHAATTT
<cbx33> start over again?
<jeffwaddell> jsgotangco, not sure given my resources at this moment if I can do that....
<MyNameIsNotBob> HedgeMage, thats what i was thinking as well
<MyNameIsNotBob> HedgeMage, but was wanting confirmation before i did it
<HedgeMage> MyNameIsNotBob: I'm about 90% sure, maybe someone else here can confirm
<jsgotangco> cbx33: :D
<jeffwaddell> MyNameIsNotBob, I would expect it to work, yet I haven't tried it...
<HedgeMage> I've done it before, and it looked/felt like edubuntu... don't know if there's a difference I'm missing though
<HedgeMage> MyNameIsNotBob: is this for a standalone installation or LTSP goodness?
* HedgeMage is a bit clueless regarding LTSP
<MyNameIsNotBob> HedgeMage, it is just my computer if that is what you mean, i don't recognise the acronym LTSP
* jeffwaddell thinks LTSP is 'da bomb'
<cbx33> jeffwaddell: indeed it is
<HedgeMage> MyNameIsNotBob: it's for thin client fun stuff :)  if you don't know what it is, you don't use it
<MyNameIsNotBob> HedgeMage, thought so
<cbx33> ogra: I was half way through my installation when i discovered that bug
<HedgeMage> btw, I'll warn you all now, I've resorted to sugar to keep me awake... be afraid, be very afraid.
<cbx33> I'm sure I can start another one going if you need my help
<highvoltage> pong cbx33 
<cbx33> dw highvoltage it's all in hand
<cbx33> :D
<highvoltage> grrr
<cbx33> sorry dude
<JaneW> highvoltage: why you gorwling?
<cbx33> ogrwling :p
<JaneW> **Reminder** Edubuntu Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 20 mins
<highvoltage> JaneW: cbx33 pinged me for no reason :)
<JaneW> cbx33: rude!
<cbx33> sorry it wasn't for no reason
<JaneW> *joking*
<cbx33> :(
* MyNameIsNotBob thinks he will just download the extra packages
<highvoltage> cbx33: don't worry :)
<highvoltage> cbx33: what did you ping me for?
<cbx33> it was to ask if you were going to the meeting
<cbx33> if you could save a log of the convo for me
* MyNameIsNotBob thinks ... through synaptic
<cbx33> so i caould do the minutes
<cbx33> as I won;t be able to attend
<JaneW> let's go to #u-m for meeting else we have to tell ppl thee we are here and ask ppl her to be quiet etc...
<cbx33> I'll be travelling home
<highvoltage> cbx33: ok, will do. logs are kept automatically too.
<cbx33> yes
<JaneW> her=here
<cbx33> but I wanted them straight away
<jeffwaddell> if i were looking for an agenda for this upcoming meeting where would I look?
<cbx33> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda
<jeffwaddell> the link on the fridge is not that
<cbx33> well that's it
<jeffwaddell> yes thanks
<MyNameIsNotBob> does edubuntu guarantee me better grades?
<JaneW> MyNameIsNotBob: YES
* MyNameIsNotBob dances for joy!
<highvoltage> cbx33: I'll keep the logs and mail them for you
<highvoltage> test
<cbx33> bbl guys
<cbx33> and gals
<jeffwaddell> bye cbx33
<JaneW> **Reminder** Edubuntu Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 10 mins
<HedgeMage> Hubby is going to kill me when he gets up for work and sees I haven't slept
* highvoltage wonders if we can replace some of the janew functionality with a cron job
<jsgotangco> good idea
<jsgotangco> we can call it the nurse script
<HedgeMage> roflmao
<ogra> highvoltage, just teach ubugtu to notify the channel, it already has the schedule and a timer
<highvoltage> ogra: ok
<jsgotangco> ouch meeting and i was having a blast doing sudoku
<HedgeMage> roflmao
<JaneW> highvoltage: indeed :P
<JaneW> jsgotangco: or bliss
<jsgotangco> gahh
<JaneW> jsgotangco: sorry, do I shock you?
<jsgotangco> yes you haven't resigned completely yet and i discover you playing a windows game
<MyNameIsNotBob> how do i load schooltool?
<LaserJock> JaneW: got my passport yesterday, I guess I'm ready to go :-)
<MyNameIsNotBob> like, what is my default port no?
<jsgotangco> oh joy
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: hmm good for you, you only need a passport
<JaneW> LaserJock: awesome
<JaneW> jsgotangco: not on MY laptop!
* jeffwaddell remembers having a passport once...
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: you need a visa too?
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: yes, we of non anglo-saxon and norman blood seems to require a visa :D
* jeffwaddell wonders why mastercard isn't good enough
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: i was at the consul office today, and passed my papers but they asked for more (which i find it silly already)
<LaserJock> bummer dude
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: its really a big hassle for cvd and clan already
<jsgotangco> (the consul asked for a letter from the hotel doh)
<trainee> ello der...
<HedgeMage> hi trainee 
<trainee> ello,,,
<trainee> why is d room quiet?
<HedgeMage> most of us are in a meeting right now
<HedgeMage> in #ubuntu-meeting
<HedgeMage> you are welcome to come sit in
<HedgeMage> general questions can be asked here in #edubuntu and we'll do our best to answer as we're able
<trainee> ok...will do...
<HedgeMage> jeffwaddell: email sent... sorry for the delay
<HedgeMage> wb JeffWaddell 
<JeffWaddell> HedgeMage: thanks email received....keyboard wierding out though
<HedgeMage> np
<HedgeMage> :)
<JeffWaddell> ?
<highvoltage> JaneW: that's why i eat lunch later, when at work. otherwise you loose half a day :)
<JaneW> highvoltage: I normally eat a light lunch
<JaneW> that works too
<highvoltage> yeah. light lunches work great.
<highvoltage> JaneW: seen this? http://www.itweb.co.za/sections/computing/2006/0605291300.asp?S=Telecoms&A=TEL&O= we're on ITweb again :)
<JaneW> highvoltage: looking
<JaneW> highvoltage: it was the chocolates at the end that did me in I think ;)
<highvoltage> heh.
<HedgeMage> hehe
<HedgeMage> BTW, JaneW, highvoltage, I wanted your opinion on something
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: oooh. ok
<JaneW> highvoltage: well done :)
<highvoltage> it's rare that people actually ask for my opinion. i normally just give it!
<HedgeMage> someone (I think you JaneW but I could be wrong) mentioned something about me applying to be an edubuntu member a while back... I'm not sure if I really should yet... I'm not sure what is "enough" to merit it... Do you think I'm ready or shall I wait a bit?
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: ROFL
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: btw, did you get my note about the typo on edubuntu.org/help earlier?
<HedgeMage> or did jsgotangco fix it already?
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: i say, if you feel ready, go for it.
* HedgeMage looks
<JaneW> HedgeMage: ogra is the best person to descide, but based on what I have seen I'd say yes
<JaneW> EC is sitting next week
<JaneW> what time?
<JaneW> 20:00?
<HedgeMage> I believe so
<LaserJock> ogra: glad that got cleared up
* JaneW makes a note of that
<LaserJock> HedgeMage: just join the edubuntu-members LP team so we know to get the grilling ready ;-)
<HedgeMage> rofl
<HedgeMage> :)
<HedgeMage> I'll get that all in order once the release announcement and EC stuff are squared away
<HedgeMage> gah! I'm being infected by military terms...
<highvoltage> JaneW: is there a deadline for finalisation for specs?
<JaneW> highvoltage: for SoC?
<highvoltage> JaneW: ah, i thought you might have refered to edgy specs
* LaserJock still doesn't get how the spec process will worf for Paris, but is waiting until after Dapper is out the door
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: it'll be intense
<LaserJock> worf? what the heck was that
* jeffwaddell guess that worf is work
<JaneW> LaserJock: yes focus will be on that next week
<highvoltage> LaserJock: yep, i'm going to bug ogr4 with lots of questions starting from this weekend ;)
<LaserJock> JaneW: should most specs be done before the summit?
<ogra> LaserJock, *during*
<ogra> but you should draft it as good as you can
<LaserJock> k
<JaneW> LaserJock: ideally yes
<LaserJock> yeah, I plan on picking ogra's brain once it has recovered from the release partying
<JaneW> as per Mark's mail
<jsgotangco> ogra: how much are smokes in paris?
<jsgotangco> expensive?
<HedgeMage> Speaking of release partying... anyone else in WA, USA?
<ogra> dont think so, but i cant remember its somethink like 20 years ago when i was there
<jsgotangco> meh
<JaneW> HedgeMage: flint is
<jeffwaddell> JaneW, didn't he just get on a plane?
<HedgeMage> hmmm... not in here ATM
<JaneW> HedgeMage: although he is in Vermont now - where's that?
<HedgeMage> other side of the country
<HedgeMage> Washington is the west coast, vermont is the east coast.
<jsgotangco> somewhere deep into the iron curtain of north america
<LaserJock> hehe, waaay on the other side
<jeffwaddell> well Washington, District of Columbia is on the East Coast too
<HedgeMage> yep
<HedgeMage> but Washington State is on the west coast
<LaserJock> jeffwaddell: that is D.C. not Washington for West Coasters
<HedgeMage> there are two washingtons
<HedgeMage> DC is DC and Washington is Washington state
<JaneW> HedgeMage: he used to be DC
<jeffwaddell> LaserJock, not everyone here is for the North American continent
* jeffwaddell oops that's from not for...hehehehe
<JaneW> and jelkner is in Arlington, VA
<LaserJock> jeffwaddell: that probably is true too ;-)
<JaneW> and kjcole as well
<HedgeMage> JaneW: ahh, then he wasn't that close to me to begin with.
<HedgeMage> JaneW: I did live in DC for a couple of months, though... I like it out there but I can't figure out why
<JaneW> HedgeMage: looks pretty there
<LaserJock> HedgeMage: I'd love to fly up but I gotta save my pennies for Paris :/
* JaneW loves Cape Town though, and am happy to stay here
<HedgeMage> :)
<JaneW> and the more I travel the more I love home :)
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: there will be other parties.  I wish I were going to Paris with you.
* LaserJock has issues with cities with more than 100,000 people
* jeffwaddell has been to all those places just mentioned EXCEPT Cape Town
<HedgeMage> JaneW: My hometown was eaten by developers, so I haven't quite become attached to a new home yet.  The army keeps us moving a lot.
<highvoltage> JaneW: cape town is cool. no matter how much sabdfl blogs about how cool london is :)
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: I have issues with towns over 2,000 people :/
<ogra> yay
<ogra> dapper-dvd-i386.iso
<ogra>    141986304   4%    7.02MB/s    0:07:45
<LaserJock> HedgeMage: hmm, maybe if you come down here I can hide you in a suit case
<JaneW> HedgeMage: oh you're in the army?
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: hehe
<ogra> looks like i'll get some sleep tomight :)
<HedgeMage> JaneW: my husband is.
<jeffwaddell> yeah ogra
<JaneW> HedgeMage: yikes!
<HedgeMage> ogra: yay!
<LaserJock> \o/
<JaneW> HedgeMage: Cape Town has like 2M people
<JaneW> ogra: GOOD
<LaserJock> yikes
<LaserJock> I live in a city of ~300,000 and it is driving me nuts, I can't wait until I get my PhD finished
<HedgeMage> JaneW: Olympia isn't that big, but it's bigger than I'm used to.  I grew up on a 300yo hog farm in a very odd place... tiny town, all farms, 30 minutes from downtown Chicago
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: I live in a city of 15M people
<JaneW> jsgotangco: WOW
<jeffwaddell> HedgeMage, that would be odd
<highvoltage> JaneW: CT has nearly 3M people :)
<JaneW> jsgotangco: that's bigger than Bangkok, no?
<JaneW> highvoltage: really?
<HedgeMage> jeffwaddell: That's why my domain is BinaryRedneck.net not many coders/admins/geeks from hog farms out there :P
<jsgotangco> JaneW: my city is probably more populous than NZ and AU combined
<highvoltage> JaneW: yep, at the 2004 census, it was 2,893,251
<highvoltage> JaneW: and have you seen how many people have been walking with prams in the malls lately?
* HedgeMage has no idea how many people live in Olympia, and probably doesn't want to know.
<jeffwaddell> jsgotangco, makes we think of Mexico City however I'm not sure if it's quite that big
<JaneW> this is from 2005
<JaneW> City Facts
<JaneW> Cape Town Population 	3,103,000 *
<JaneW> S. Africa Population 	45,323,000 *
<LaserJock> HedgeMage: I'm from a ranch in the middle of nowhere Montana, I did work on a neighbors hog farm a little when I was a kid
* HedgeMage grabs a snack and props her eyelids open to draft this announcement
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: cool :)
<JaneW> highvoltage: haha yes
<JaneW> highvoltage: don;t worry I am done ;)
<jsgotangco> JaneW: population here is 85M
<jsgotangco> :D
<JaneW> jsgotangco: I'd love to go there
<JaneW> and back to Thailand
<highvoltage> JaneW: you are!? what are you going to blog about once your current kids are big? :P
* highvoltage ducks
<jsgotangco> we give lots of love
<JaneW> highvoltage: the more saucy stuff! :P
<highvoltage> *gasp*
<JaneW> highvoltage: seen today's entry? not a kid in sight ...
* jeffwaddell thinks he's probably not reading the right blogs...
<LaserJock> lol
* highvoltage looks at aggregator
<jsgotangco> JaneW: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_Manila
<highvoltage> my planet script hasn't run since you blogged... /me checks on your blog directly
* HedgeMage wants links to everyone's blogs
* HedgeMage waits for edubuntu love
<LaserJock> hehe, my home state has 1M people for 375,500 km^2
* highvoltage tries to scratch out his eyes
<ogra> HedgeMage, planet.ubuntu.com ;)
<bddebian> Howdy folks
<JaneW> highvoltage: LMAO
<JaneW> highvoltage: sorry!
<jeffwaddell> hello bddebian
<bddebian> Hello jeffwaddell
<highvoltage> JaneW: i'm sure i'll get over it... :)
<JaneW> highvoltage: so you prefer the entries about squirrels and kids? :P
<jeffwaddell> jsgotangco, it appears that greater Mexico City is a bit bigger (wikipedia say 17+million)
<highvoltage> JaneW: i do now!
<JaneW> hahaha
<jsgotangco> yeah
* jeffwaddell wonders why we like to put so many people in such small spaces
<bddebian> Yeah, come to Philadelphia!!  (hint, hint)
<jeffwaddell> bddebian, because it's smaller or bigger :)
* highvoltage suddenly realises he is behind with work while reading jsgotangco's blog entry on planet
<jsgotangco> JaneW: i grew up here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batangas
<jsgotangco> heh!
<jsgotangco> brain training
<LaserJock> JaneW: what is the URL for you blog?
<JaneW> http://janewsblog.blogspot.com/
<jsgotangco> JaneW: so you know where to go if you would like to do a diving expedition :D
<JaneW> marilize is talking so much I can't think
<highvoltage> hehe. the food had a different effect on her :)
<highvoltage> i think she's just happy to have a live person in the office again :)
<LaserJock> JaneW: hmm, never heard of bliss, my wife would probably just say "yeah right" and tell me to get off the computer ;-)
<highvoltage> JaneW: you should get marelize to join #edubuntu too
<JaneW> highvoltage: :)
<highvoltage> would be nice if she can get involved too.
<highvoltage> or is she not really that interested?
<HedgeMage> Who's that? Kid? Cow-orker?
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: she'll smack you if you call her a cow
<bddebian> huh
<JaneW> HedgeMage: employee, does all CD and cof packs etc
* jsgotangco thinks marilize is a looker
<JaneW> conf
<ogra> mhz would love here if she were around all the time to ask CD questions :)
<ogra> *her
<JaneW> she is pretty
<bddebian> What where?  Who's pretty? :-)
<highvoltage> bddebian: marelize (says jsgotangco)
<highvoltage> bddebian: i can't say that, otherwise JaneW would tell her that i said that.
<LaserJock> JaneW: so is there a replacement for you? not that you can really be replaced
<bddebian> highvoltage: Well JaneW is an attractive woman as well :-)
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/UbzGallery/CIMG0270.html
<jsgotangco> bddebian: there's also hande (of the london office)
<JaneW> marilize -> http://www.flickr.com/photos/71405082@N00/64224246/
<highvoltage> bddebian: have you seen the JaneW cartoon character? very cool :)
<bddebian> highvoltage: No
<JaneW> highvoltage: I wouldn't do that (unless you wanted me to)
<JaneW> LaserJock: no, and thanks. But I am sure there will be in time
<JaneW> unless I am redundant
<jsgotangco> is that malcolm?
<highvoltage> bddebian: http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/8061/1139/1600/jane.jpg
<JaneW> yes my anime is awesome!
<JaneW> jsgotangco: yes
<bddebian> highvoltage: JaneW is Lara Croft? ;-P
<ogra> JaneW, you are the better half of edubuntu, how can that be redundant :)
<highvoltage> bddebian: there are some parrallels :)
<bddebian> hehe
* ogra nods
<highvoltage> omw, jeff waugh's hair was long before
* JaneW will have to get those staps to attached knives to thighs
<JaneW> highvoltage: yup
<JaneW> highvoltage: so was mark's
<highvoltage> yes, but he's always had bad hair
<ogra> i liked the surferboy style :)
* jeffwaddell has decided that's time to go to bed now that the sun is fully up...ugh
<HedgeMage> sheesh I look away for 5 minutes and the chan explodes again :P
<HedgeMage> I miss all the fun
<highvoltage> *tumbleweed*
<JaneW> jsgotangco: I was thinking this morning did I share a taxi with you to Sydney airport after UDU?
<JaneW> jsgotangco: I was still pretty shell-shocked then and didn't really know who I was talking to half the time...
<jsgotangco> no i stayed for an extra day with jbailey and jdub
<jeffwaddell> later all
<HedgeMage> grrr I think TT is waking up
<HedgeMage> Yep, he's up
<HedgeMage> Still groggy though
<JaneW> HedgeMage: fun
<JaneW> jsgotangco: hrm, oh wait that was jblack!
<HedgeMage> JaneW: :)
<JaneW> totally different person
<LaserJock> HedgeMage: hmm, sounds like TT and me have a lot in common right now ;-)
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: LOL do you want to climb under my snowflake quilt and watch cartoons, too? :P
<LaserJock> Cartoons? Awesome
<LaserJock> but I need to go to work sadly, I have a meeting with my advisor at 11:00
<HedgeMage> awww
<HedgeMage> have fun
<pygi> JaneW, "you'll" have the cookbook released same time as Dapper releases
<JaneW> pygi: tomorrow?
<pygi> JaneW, yup 
<JaneW> wow
<pygi> perhaps even the docbook, so people could download it right away from -updates :)
<HedgeMage> hehe
<HedgeMage> pygi: you rock
<pygi> HedgeMage, ergh, no, I dont
<HedgeMage> yess you do :)
<pygi> HedgeMage, be shhhhhhh :)
* HedgeMage shushes and gets back to work
<HedgeMage> oh, my... TT just emptied the entire package of baby goldfish into his bowl and is eating them and guarding them...
<HedgeMage> (for those of you not from the US they are not actual fish, they are cheese crackers shaped like fish)
<cbx33> pygi, I'm so sorry, my train was late, and then my adsl line was down
<cbx33> but I'm here now and in for the long haul
<cbx33> i have my secsions just about to upload
<cbx33> gimme 10 mins
<pygi> cbx33, don't worry
<pygi> we'll have to write some other stuff considering HedgeMage has to sleep :P
<HedgeMage> sleep's a crutch... who needs sleep?
<ogra> sleep is for the weak !
<ogra> :)
<cbx33> indeed
<HedgeMage> hehe
<pygi> ogra, ergh, after a week not sleeping you would be weak :P
* ogra never tried a week :)
* HedgeMage is nearing 48 hours with no sleep save a 1.5 hour nap yesterday afternoon
<cbx33> ogra week???? never
<cbx33> HedgeMage, go sleep
<pygi> cbx33, weak*
<HedgeMage> But that's one of my barracks rats' fault, not Edubuntu's
<cbx33> pygi, yup
<HedgeMage> cbx33: still writing that draft, plus I have a kid to take care of
<HedgeMage> cbx33: I'll sleep when he naps
<jsgotangco> JaneW: i'm not as big as jblack :P
<cbx33> HedgeMage, grrrr
<HedgeMage> cbx33: grrrr?
<cbx33> I'll start calling you sleepy susan :p
<HedgeMage> LOL
<JaneW> ok time for me to head back to my mountain
<HedgeMage> cbx33: I'm not always this sleep-deprived. :P
<HedgeMage> JaneW: ttyl
* jsgotangco is not so keen on pushing a new doc in -updates
<JaneW> by all, and thanks for the awesome work
<ogra> ciao JaneW 
<cbx33> how was the meeting
<jsgotangco> i gotta crash
<jsgotangco> good night
<cbx33> nn jsgotangco 
* jsgotangco will do some serious tests later
<jsgotangco> hmmm
* jsgotangco thinks his laptop has just turned gold
<cbx33> jsgotangco, did you see my bug
<jsgotangco> no
<jsgotangco> what #?
<cbx33> heheh....try pressing alt+tab which the is a progress bar on the screen in di
<cbx33> it'll halt the installer
<cbx33> :S
<jsgotangco> does it actually halt the installer or the progress bar?
* pygi is upgrading his kernel
<cbx33> no it halts the installer
<cbx33> you can still do Alt+F*
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<jsgotangco> its probably not d-i
<cbx33> and spawn a console in tty2
<cbx33> no, but that's what Kamion told me to file it under
<jsgotangco> cbx33: what's the chance of people actually doing that during install?
<jsgotangco> power users?
<jsgotangco> ahhh
<cbx33> jsgotangco, or those using vmware :p
<jsgotangco> ahh right
<jsgotangco> good spotting
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> well wish I'd spotted it earlier
<jsgotangco> too late :)
<jsgotangco> ciao
<cbx33> can someone grab the red...you have updates icon?
<cbx33> nevermind I have it
<HedgeMage> Okay, folks... please everyone thoroughly and viciously proof and critique https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDapperReleaseAnnouncement 
<HedgeMage> I am sleep deprived so I'm afraid I may have missed some mistakes or just plain said something wrong or whatever.
<cbx33> HedgeMage, I will do it personally
* pygi looks
<HedgeMage> awesome
<HedgeMage> thanks, guys
<cbx33> HedgeMage, what about proud to present
<HedgeMage> sounds better :)
<HedgeMage> done
<HedgeMage> next?
<cbx33> via the internet
<cbx33> via t'internet :p
<HedgeMage> lol
* HedgeMage finds that one
<cbx33> disk, you will need media with at least 700MB capacity
<pygi> HedgeMage, I am not sure is "published" good word for cookbook
<highvoltage> disc.
* HedgeMage nods
<HedgeMage> pygi: "assembled" instead?
<cbx33> HedgeMage, did you want to say that if possible could people burn their own?
<cbx33> and distribute
<HedgeMage> brb tt found cookies
<cbx33> how about....prepared the frist edubuntu cookbook
<HedgeMage> that could work
<HedgeMage> brb
<cbx33> To see it all, you'll need to try the CD, but the following highlights may whet your appetite: CHANGE TO:: In order to experience Edubuntu fully, you'll need to try the........
<bimberi> HedgeMage: The CD's are now called "Desktop CD" and "Alternate install CD".  Also I think it's mandated to include the "LTS" after 6.06
<cbx33> LTS?
<cbx33> what does it mean
<cbx33> :p
<ogra> bimberi, nope
<ogra> not for us
<ogra> the LTS should be in though
<bimberi> ogra: i'm going by http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/6.06/
<ogra> and how are the isos called ? :)
<ogra> (i'm aware about the bug in the html title)
<HedgeMage> what's LTS ?
<ogra> long term support
<HedgeMage> ahh okay
<bimberi> ogra: ah, kk :)
<bimberi> Linux Terminal Server :P
<ogra> the only CD we ship is the install CD for i386
<ogra> and since we install a server by default we cant call it "desktop" cd
<bimberi> HedgeMage: Needs to say Edubuntu in "To burn the Ubuntu 6.06 CD images..."
<ogra> and since its our default, it would be silly to call it "alternate"
<ogra> so we keep the names
<bimberi> makes a lot of sense
<HedgeMage> bimberi: thanks
* HedgeMage nods
<bimberi> HedgeMage: yw :)
<pygi> cbx33, just tell when can we continue with cookbook
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> just uploading all my images
<cbx33> and content for you to see
<HedgeMage> cbx33: I think I like "assembled" rather than "prepared" (referring to cookbook)... "prepared" sounds less... something
<HedgeMage> Okay, tweaked a bit per suggestions... still thinking of a nice-sounding way to say "burn your own if you can, we don't have a ton to send out"
<HedgeMage> feel free to peak and give more feedback
<bimberi> HedgeMage: if you add a space before each "*" they should come out as dot points (iirc)
<HedgeMage> bimberi: thanks I was wondering why they didn't
<bimberi> HedgeMage: how about "We're as tight as the typical education budget so ..."  ? :P
<HedgeMage> hehe
<bimberi> as a way to introduce "burn your own" (in case that wasn't clear)
<bimberi> 01:16 on June 1 here but nothing from mdz :(
<ogra> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Testing/Current not before all fields are PASS in all tables (or nearly all)
<bimberi> ah, locked page, i would think so too
<HedgeMage> Okay, TT needs love, attention, parenting, etc.  I'll be back after a while.
<cbx33> pygi, check out administration
<cbx33> not finished yet
<cbx33> I'm moving onto the LTSP stuff
<pygi> cbx33, will look, thanks
<pygi> cbx33, I'll put aside entire night so I could finish all
<cbx33> i think I may need to resize the images a little
<cbx33> lemme know what you think
<pygi> cbx33, ok, gimme few secs
<cbx33> hi LaserJock 
<LaserJock> hi cbx33 
<cbx33> did you manage to get any gisomount done ?
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> pygi, check out LTSP management
<cbx33> done that now too
<cbx33> ogra, i can't believe you had to test all over again
<ogra> i'm getting there
<cbx33> that sux
<ogra> only the dvd and install CDs
<cbx33> i386 install?
<ogra> live could stay
<ogra> all arches
<cbx33> you need a hand bud?
<ogra> ah well, sure, if you have spare time test some i386 installs
<ogra> i'm nearly done with amd64 and will do ppc and i386 in parallel afterwards
<cbx33> I'll run some for you
<ogra> and after that the DVD again ...
<ogra> *yawn*
<cbx33> 20060531?
<ogra> as noted in the wikipage
<cbx33> LaserJock, ooooh I notied something cool
<cbx33> sorry ogra trying to do 1,000 things at once
<ogra>  Current Test Install CD
<ogra> 
<ogra> 20060531.1 
<cbx33> I used gisomount just now to mount an iso...and the icon popped up on the desktop :D
<cbx33> how cool
<LaserJock> cool
<pygi> cbx33, joy :)
<ogra> nice :)
<LaserJock> we just need a nautilus browse button :-)
<cbx33> yup
<cbx33> that should be fairly simple
<cbx33> just need to cater for those who don;t have nautilus
* cbx33 is thinking that it could check for the most common ones
<cbx33> then in user prefs, when we get there, it could have a place for you to write it in
<cbx33> the command used to browse
<cbx33> pygi, is that stuff ok?
<cbx33> ogra, can you point me to your rsync script
<cbx33> I shuld be able to rsync this one now
<LaserJock> cbx33: dude just go to http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/rsyncer.sh
<LaserJock> all his goodies are in there ;-)
<cbx33> sorry peeps
<cbx33> oooh
<pygi> cbx33, very nice, thanks
<cbx33> good good
<cbx33> needs clearning up
<cbx33> but most of it's there
<cbx33> just need to do adding applications
<cbx33> what do you think about the png sizes
<LaserJock> cbx33: hmm, and I didn't even mutate last night ;-)
<cbx33> they have all been crushed
<cbx33> heheheh
<pygi> cbx33, nice size, no need to resize
<cbx33> ok cool
<cbx33> LaserJock, i dn;t want to bother ogra, so I 'll ak you
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> do you use the rsyncer script?
<cbx33> i created a fodler called edubuntu
<LaserJock> right
<cbx33> moved my dapper-install-i386.iso in there
<cbx33> and ran
<cbx33> rsyncer.sh --arch i386 --flavor install
<cbx33> but it doesn't seem to have updated it
<LaserJock> ./rsyncer.sh --help is good to
<cbx33> what have i missed
<cbx33> yeh hence where i got the info from
<LaserJock> you sure it didn't update?
<cbx33> well i just used gisomount to check the version
<cbx33> and i got 20060530
<cbx33> i should be 30.1
<ogra> nope
<ogra> 31.1
<cbx33> sorry 31.1
<ogra> :)
<LaserJock> cbx33: hmm, I'd check the md5sum
<cbx33> in any case I was looking for a .1
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> LaserJock, I'm thinking of an md5sum tool too :p
<cbx33> from within gisomount
<LaserJock> that would be a cool feature
<cbx33> hmmm it did update
<cbx33> LaserJock, yeh
<cbx33> we need a wiki
<LaserJock> yep
<pygi> cbx33, I just discovered bug in book
<pygi> fixed :)
<cbx33> the .disks info still shows the wrong version number
<cbx33> pygi, ok
<cbx33> ogra, can you confirm the .disk/info version number
<ogra> at least on the amd64 CD i'm currently installing i can
<ogra> 31.1
<cbx33> well the sums match
<cbx33> it synced incredibly quickly
<cbx33> but the version number is wrong
<cbx33> on the i386
<ogra> from what did you sync ? which version
<cbx33> 31
<ogra> yes, thats a very fast sync :)
<ogra> since that rebuild was amd64 only
<ogra> so it might be that the contents of .disk/info for i386 didnt get updated
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> so if the i386 is exactly the same
<cbx33> do we need to test?
<ogra> yes
<cbx33> bear in mind I'm testing anyway :p
<cbx33> just burning media
<cbx33> pygi, so, what else do you need from me right now?
<cbx33> I'm just gonna work up the installing applications section
<pygi> cbx33, where is installing application section?
<pygi> I don't see it?
<cbx33> it's not done yet
<cbx33> doing it now
<pygi> cbx33, yes, we need to finish Part IV, and Part V
<pygi> and thne proofreading
<pygi> No, I mean where do you see that topic in worksheet?
<cbx33> oh i didn't was going to add it
<cbx33> seeing as it's a pretty important feature
<pygi> cbx33, oki, add then pls :)
<pygi> We need to proofread things today...If you dont have time cbx33, I'll do it
<cbx33> pygi, I told you I have more time yet
<pygi> cbx33, oki,oki :)
<cbx33> I have about another 5 hours at least
<cbx33> i told you I'm in for a penny in ofr a pound on this today
<cbx33> I'm sorry I couldn't yesterday, but testing had to come first
<pygi> erfg, why is this locked?
<pygi> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/HowToCookEdubuntu/Chapters/Support%26Docs
<pygi> no worries :)
<cbx33> i can edit it
<pygi> cbx33, we need to clone it to: wiki.ubuntu.com/HowToCookEdubuntu/Chapters/Docs
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> i think one of us should do that
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> so we don't get confused :p
* cbx33 wishes he could stop using :p as punctuation
<cbx33> how was the meeting
<cbx33> pygi, you realise i wrote all of that content on the train home :p
<cbx33> I'm just gonna do the app install doc now
<pygi> cbx33, what meeting? :P
<pygi> cbx33, yes, I do :)
<pygi> cbx33, I can't do that considering the page is locked for me
<cbx33> oh
<LaserJock> cbx33: kinda weird
<cbx33> I'll try saving a change
<pygi> cbx33, we need to switch it to url I told you about :P
<LaserJock> cbx33: it was sort of short mostly just chating about how ogra rocks the house.
<LaserJock> :-)
<cbx33> yeh he does
<cbx33> how can i unlock a page?
<cbx33> i can edit it it
<cbx33> want me to move it?
<pygi> cbx33, just copy the content, and copy it to the url
<pygi> yup
<cbx33> pygi, but where the are images...that makes it harder...
<pygi> cbx33, ergh, images?
<cbx33> which docs re you wanting to copy and paste across?
<pygi> this one:
<pygi> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/HowToCookEdubuntu/Chapters/Support%26Docs
<pygi> here:
<cbx33> just that one?
<pygi> wiki.ubuntu.com/HowToCookEdubuntu/Chapters/Docs
<pygi> yup
<pygi> all others are there already
<cbx33> ok I'll do that
<pygi> thanks
<cbx33> Docs doesn't exist yet does it
<cbx33> doesi t ?
<pygi> cbx33, well that is the part of docs
<pygi> that you need to copy :)
<cbx33> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowToCookEdubuntu/Chapters/Docs
<cbx33> that ok?
<pygi> cbx33, yup, thanks :)
<cbx33> pygi I'm just uploading the images for adding applications now
<pygi> cbx33, nice
<cbx33> I'm gonna go get some grub on :p
<cbx33> back later dudes
<cbx33> PPIIIZZZAAAAA !!!
<cbx33> pygi, all the images are uploaded I'll write the content when i get back...
<cbx33> then I'm all yours for anything else
<cbx33> docbook proofing
<pygi> cbx33, enjoy :)
<cbx33> you name it
<cbx33>  :p
<cbx33> oh and ogra don't worry my friend...I havn't for gotten you
<cbx33> I'm installing vmware as we speak
<cbx33> sorry
<cbx33> i mean i386 erase
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<highvoltage> boo!
<pygi> highvoltage, you are learning boo? :)
* ogra smells bddebian influence :)
<bddebian> mwuhahaha
<cbx33> boo!
<pygi> cbx33, you learning boo also?
<pygi> gah :)
<cbx33> I've been learning boo for ages
<cbx33> just didn;t know it was an accepted language here :p
<cbx33> now leme try this
<cbx33> Boo bo booo bo boo booo
<cbx33> I think that's pygi how goes the cookbook
<pygi> cbx33, hm? :)
<cbx33> pygi, does HedgeMage still want us to proof that release ntice
<pygi> cbx33, yup, but I think it's proofed enough
<cbx33> ok
* highvoltage is mastering boo
<highvoltage> bddebian: nice evil laugh, btw
<ogra> highvoltage, note that bddebian is the certified ubuntu-bugs boo master
<cbx33> UBBM eh?
* cbx33 is studying for the EBM
* highvoltage bows to bdebian's boo'osity
<LaserJock> hmm, maybe we need a wiki page renaming ;-)
<pygi> LaserJock, to "boo"? 
<ogra> merge the all in one and call it boo ?
<ogra> *them
<crimsun> maybe we need howtos sprinkled across the wiki for boo
<pygi> ogra, you took my idea :(
* pygi cries 
<LaserJock> BddebianIsAGod -> BddebianIsTheBooMaster
<ogra> pygi, sorry, its my plagiatism day 
<LaserJock> quick somebody write the spec!
* highvoltage would expect that the BddebianIsAGod page would be bigger by now
<LaserJock> highvoltage: it isn't very well advertised. It could use a fridge post or something
<LaserJock> perhaps even a forum thread
<LaserJock> hmm, I'll probably need to add a Boo section to the Bugs chapter of the Packaging Guide
<ogra> "how boo's correlate with hugs"
<lucasvo> ogra: whats willow, I didn't find anything on the web
<ogra> digitallumber.com
<lucasvo> ty
<LaserJock> I just got called LoserJock in -bugs ! :-)
* highvoltage just joined and boo!'d in -bug
<highvoltage> s
<highvoltage> ogra: you sound refreshed, did you get some sleep in?
<cbx33> Oh Boo
<ogra> nah
* cbx33 can see a whole load of new phrases
<ogra> no sleep for me
<cbx33> ah...for boos sake
<highvoltage> no rest for the wicked :)
<cbx33> booing hell
<cbx33> ogra, isn't wicked
<LaserJock> it's the new crack ;-)
<cbx33> he's just challenged on the whole good and evil things :p
<highvoltage> cbx33: in south africa, 'wicked' is like another slang word for 'awesome', and 'cool'
<highvoltage> cbx33: so 'no rest for the wicked' has many meanings :)
<LaserJock> highvoltage: in the eastern us too
<highvoltage> LaserJock: wicked!
<cbx33> well yeh
<cbx33> in fact you're heard me use it several times in here
<cbx33> but in that context
<cbx33> I'd take wicked to mean bad/evil :p
<pygi> cbx33, what do you think? Can we manage docbook as well today?
<pygi> After we finish writing?
<cbx33> pygi, we can give it a shot
<LaserJock> my cousins on the west coast use "hella" or "hecka" instead of "wicked"
<pygi> cbx33, I know I'll be up all night to do it :)
<cbx33> LaserJock, heheh
<cbx33> ok...adding applications :D
<cbx33> what group is it that you add people too on edubuntu to give them sudo rights
<highvoltage> admin
<cbx33> visudo is setup to give everyone in a group sudo rights
<cbx33> thought so
<cbx33> thanks highvoltage 
<cbx33> anyone got a rough package count for universe?
<LaserJock> just a sec
<lucasvo> ogra: what should we do about the non standard port for ssh?
<lucasvo> implement a new option? :)
<ogra> yes
<lucasvo> maybe SSH_PORT = ""
<ogra> yes
<lucasvo> should I reply and confirm?
<ogra> as a whishlist bug, yes
<LaserJock> cbx33: oh wait, I have a source package count (4692), not binary package count
<LaserJock> the binary package count is quite a bit higher
<cbx33> lucasvo, is this in LTSP?
<ogra> lucasvo, also tell him he's doing really great with his first "linux bugreport" :)
<ogra> (such people need encouragement)
<lucasvo> ok
<cbx33> :)
* lucasvo was shy as well when reporting his first bugs or writing to -dev mailinglists
<cbx33> lucasvo, me too
<cbx33> man to think that was only 2 months ago
<cbx33> I've only been with edubuntu 2 months
<cbx33> :D
<pygi> cbx33, I will be back in two hours
<cbx33> yikes
<cbx33> where ya goin?
<cbx33> I'll finish up apps
<cbx33> and proof what ?
<cbx33> then we can start docbook
<cbx33> unless you have some ready for me to convert
<pygi> cbx33, we need to finish writing
<cbx33> ok
<pygi> part IV and part V need finishing
<pygi> all that HedgeMage didnt had time to do it
<pygi> then proofing
<pygi> then Doc
<LaserJock> cbx33: what are you going to docbook from?
<cbx33> moin
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> what version of moin?
<cbx33> the one on wiki
<LaserJock> oh, wiki.ubuntu.com?
<cbx33> yes
<LaserJock> oh joy
<pygi> cbx33, can you tackle those chapters that need finishing?
<LaserJock> how are you going to convert it?
<cbx33> I can try
<cbx33> by hand LaserJock 
<cbx33> by hand
<pygi> thanks, I'll try to get back ASAP
<cbx33> np
<LaserJock> cbx33: ack, how much do you need to do?
<cbx33> a lot
<cbx33> but the content needs finishing first
<cbx33> as pygi stated
<LaserJock> I can convert to docbook while your asleep tonight, if you want
<LaserJock> I've got a personal install of moin 1.5.3 that has the "render as docbook" that should at least get it started
<cbx33> LaserJock, that'd be great if we get all the content done and proofed by then
<cbx33> :D
<cbx33> LaserJock, you're a genius
<cbx33> Boo to you
<lucasvo> what rian rousseaus nick?
<lucasvo> He should look at LAMS
<cbx33> hi lucasvo how goes the journal?
<lucasvo> cbx33: on hold
<lucasvo> I was away with school for 2 days
<cbx33> ah
<lucasvo> I have another project which has priority, some commercial stuff
<lucasvo> and I have lots of exams
<pawsilver> Hi there can anyone help me?  Edubuntu doesn't want to load on my pc???  Its a brand new P4 Asus MB and an ATA serial HDD, it loads the live version and when i click on install it goes through the 1st screens and when it hits partitioning drives it hangs???
<lucasvo> pawsilver: which version of Edubuntu do you have?
<cbx33> ogra, are you still editing Testing
<lucasvo> recent RC?
<cbx33> you can fill me in for erase on install cd
<ogra> cbx33, saved
<pawsilver> the latest beta release
<ogra> there were plenty partitioner bugs until very recently 
<ogra> you should grab something newer, a lot of live installer bugs were fixed
<cbx33> i can edit now ogra ?
<ogra> yes
<highvoltage> it's a good thing dapper wasn't released 6 weeks ago.
<lucasvo> ogra: this guy replies fast :)
<lucasvo> highvoltage: yes
<pawsilver> Its Edubuntu F8
<lucasvo> pawsilver: or make a bugreport and use the manual install
<pawsilver> how do I do that?
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily-live/20060531/
<ogra> this is very likely to become our final release CD, take that
<LaserJock> is mdz sick?
<cbx33> ogra, I'm gonna do workstation freespace now
<ogra> LaserJock, yep
<cbx33> then hopefully a resize
<ogra> doing a release in a hotel and being sick ... 
<crimsun> mdz's a trooper
<cbx33> indeed
<ogra> well, i bet he had preferred sitting at hime
<ogra> *home
<LaserJock> hmm, I always got sick about the time of finals
<LaserJock> stress does it to me
<LaserJock> I'm guessing lack off sleep also contributed
<lucasvo> he has a funny name Rich Stillman almost like Richard Stallman
<highvoltage> ogra: I thought the KK George IS his new home :)
<ogra> haha
<ogra> its a nice house, but i wouldnt want to live there :)
<crimsun> finals were my favourite time, because I actually got /more/ sleep than during the semester running around like a drunken chicken with assignments and so on
<cbx33> me had 4 hours sleep for like a year through uni
<cbx33> including finals
<cbx33> 4 hours every night
<LaserJock> ughh, I have to do 8, finals or not
<crimsun> 4 hours/night was my freshman year. I think it got much worse after that.
* highvoltage wouldn't want to live in a hotel either
<LaserJock> it would depend on the hotel I suppose ;-)
<highvoltage> although, that hotel has very, very nice bandwidth. i might just compromise for that hotel :(
<highvoltage> s/:(/:)
<ogra> its great
<ogra> ... as a hotel ...
<highvoltage> yep.
<highvoltage> ugh. i wish i could listen to ogra and burn my cd's at 8x.
<cbx33> w00t the pig just peed :D
<highvoltage> the pig? you have a pig?
<cbx33> sorry guys one of our guinea pigs is sick
<highvoltage> aah
<cbx33> but we've nursing her better
<crimsun> oh, I thought you were referring to an edubuntu install
<crimsun> *mutter* lack of sleep
<cbx33> hehe we understand crimsun 
<cbx33> phew another chaper done
<cbx33> I'm beat
<Burgwork> highvoltage, after dapper releases, I would love to write a case study on Edubuntu with you
<highvoltage> Burgwork: great, there are other people who would be interested too. I'm forced to collaborate more and more these days due to time restraints
<highvoltage> although I must admit, i'm getting better at it, and enjoying it more :)
<cbx33> good for you highvoltage 
* cbx33 hopes to be able to help with bugfixing a lot more next release
<Burgwork> I think it would be good to get three or four case studies on Edubuntu produced
<cbx33> and packaging
<cbx33> Burgwork, that's a good idea
<cbx33> assuming I'm still at the school I'd happily write one
<cbx33> highvoltage, LOL at someone spelling your nick and name wrong :p
<highvoltage> cbx33: i get that all the time, and it really makes me angry, hence http://jonathancarter.co.za/files/jonathan.pdf
* highvoltage makes mental note to make a proper web page about that
<highvoltage> cbx33: that howto was made for a guy in my office who kept spelling my name "Johnathon"
<highvoltage> grrr
<cbx33> heheh
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<highvoltage> ogra: Ping
<highvoltage> ogra: please see -devel for last 2 minutes
<cbx33> ogra, 3 test's completed
<cbx33> on my last one for today
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<pygi> cbx33, poke
<cbx33> hey pygi
<cbx33> i finished up my sections that I was working
<cbx33> then my brain melted
<pygi> hm?
<cbx33> and i started to write pure crap
<highvoltage> hey cbx33, it's going well thanks :)
<cbx33> adding applicatiosn is done
<pygi> cbx33, oki, lemme see
<cbx33> good good
<pygi> cbx33, where is that Installing thingy?
<cbx33> explain?
<cbx33> adding applications
<cbx33> it's under administation
* pygi looks
<pygi> nice cbx33 
<pygi> will we tackle the other things now?
<cbx33> i can try 
<cbx33> need proofing?
<cbx33> i can't proof my own stuff
<cbx33> and i think my brain is shot for writing now
<pygi> cbx33, no worries, I'll proof your stuff
<pygi> hm,okies
<pygi> let's go proofing now,and write later
<cbx33> LaserJock, said he may be able to do some docbook for us overnight
<pygi> I saw it
<pygi> I'll be up all night to finish this
<pygi> ok, let's go
<pygi> you proof Part I, I'll proof Part II
<pygi> write a "Note: explanation" what you thinks needs changing, bla, bla :)
<pygi> oki?
<cbx33> ok will do
<cbx33> pygi, the work of two people :p
<pygi> cbx33, hm?
<pygi> yes, currently only me and you work, but eh :)
<cbx33> hehee
<pygi> what's funny? :P
<cbx33> "Here you see the result of tremendous effort of two people:"
<pygi> lol, yes, indeed
<pygi> change that :)
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> ok
<pygi> our writers
<cbx33> I'll note it
<pygi> oki
<cbx33> in part two of chapter I
<cbx33> ther are a lot of references to Ubuntu
<cbx33> as opposed to edubuntu
<cbx33> is this right?
<cbx33> pygi, ?
<pygi> make a note on that, I'll see whats with that
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> no need to proof part III seeing as I wrote some of it before and proofed it ages ago
<cbx33> it's from eSA isn't it
<cbx33> as well as difference
<pygi> cbx33, hm,oki
<cbx33> I've proofed it anyway
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> as I will do with part IV
<pygi> cbx33, part IV is proofed
<pygi> we just need to write the rest
<cbx33> wanna look at my notes in part I and II
<cbx33> just finisheing Part IV
<pygi> cbx33, oki, will look notes
<pygi> you look notes in Part II also
<pygi> I wrote some for you
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> ogra, you got two secs
<cbx33> if you do an apt-get upgrade on an ltsp chroot
<cbx33> doe it update kerneels by default?
<ogra> yes, inside the chroot
<ogra> but noit the netboot kernel
<ogra> so ltsp wont boot
* ogra is off for more ppc testing
<pygi> cbx33, you should correct this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowToCookEdubuntu/Chapters/Philosophy
<pygi> I don't really get what you mean with two same sections
<pygi> altought I agree there is some overlap
<cbx33> they are practically identifal
<pygi> identical with what?
<pygi> those 2 sections in the chapter?
<pygi> cbx33, hm, change as you feel appropriate
<cbx33> ok
<pygi> cbx33, we may use wallpappers from here for Artwork thingy
<pygi> http://edubuntu.org/Screenshots
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> pygi, just spoken with mdke, he's asked if we could tag all cookbook with categorydoucmentation
<cbx33> as per the doc move tomorrow
<pygi> hm, where is doc moving?
<pygi> cbx33, If that would help him, we could probably do it, altought I am currently not sure how to do that (never did that here :P)
<cbx33> pygi, literally just add CategoryDocumentation to the bottom of every page
<pygi> that should be no problem if it'll help him
<cbx33> yes it will help us both :p
<cbx33> want me to do it ?
<pygi> cbx33, where is doc gonna be tranfered?
<pygi> Nah, I can do it
<pygi> you proceed with writing missing pieces in part V
<cbx33> pygi, I can't now, I'm wiped out....
<cbx33> been testing isos too :p
<pygi> cbx33, eh, we need that finished :(
<pygi> cbx33, ok, at least the Artwork stuff, I'll finish the rest?
<pygi> and add those CategoryDocumentation stuff
<cbx33> I'll add the category doc
<cbx33> requires little thinking
<cbx33> pygi, what is all this stuff https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuCookbook?
<pygi> cbx33, that's "junk"
<cbx33> define "junk"
<pygi> well, obsolete, very lill' written by some people who I wouldnt know, etc
<pygi> basicly, all can be deleted
<LaserJock> you might want to be a little careful with the delete button :-)
<cbx33> yeh
<pygi> LaserJock, I am careful :)
<LaserJock> pygi: the pages will end up on help.ubuntu.com
<pygi> LaserJock, whatever you want :)
<LaserJock> well, there is a fair amount of material there
<cbx33> LaserJock, indeed
<pygi> LaserJock, cbx33, as I said... do whatever you feel is appropriate :)
<LaserJock> is this what you guys are working on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowToCookEdubuntu/Chapters/ ?
<pygi> LaserJock, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowToCookEdubuntu/Worksheet
<LaserJock> hmm /Worksheet looks almost done but /Chapters has a lot of missing links
<pygi> LaserJock, /Chapters may be erased
<pygi> LaserJock, so please do that :)
<pygi> Amaranth, doing some /cycle? :)
<Amaranth> doing some "weird wireless connection"
#edubuntu 2006-06-01
<pygi> cbx33, status update?
<cbx33> still tagging
<cbx33> and talking to mdke
<cbx33> about wiki move
<pygi> I am really sleepy, and this is not going to do itself on its own :-/
<pygi> where do we move wiki?
<cbx33> tomorrow
<pygi> tommorow what?
<cbx33> the wiki move is tomorrow
<LaserJock> tommorow the user documentation wiki pages will be moved from wiki.ubuntu.com to help.ubuntu.com
<pygi> LaserJock, ah, will I also have privs there to write, edit, etc.?
<cbx33> pygi write edit yes
<cbx33> deletepages no
<pygi> cbx33, ergh, why not? :-/
<cbx33> it's a new directive
<pygi> we need to delete some then
<pygi> We don't need worksheet, and all those obsolete stuff 
<LaserJock> pygi: there will be a team to do that
<pygi> LaserJock, o joy
<cbx33> pygi, we can put in requests for it
<pygi> Like I am really going to delete something what is important
<pygi> ok, ok 
<LaserJock> there is a lot of crap that goes on on the wiki
<LaserJock> it isn't that they don't trust you pygi
<LaserJock> but they are trying to up the quality of the wiki docs
<pygi> LaserJock, lol, yes, I know..no worries about that :)
<LaserJock> and people haphazardly deleting docs is not good
<pygi> cbx33, oki, you'll tell me where I will be able to find the cookbook stuff tommorow then
<cbx33> ok
<pygi> I should probably take some sleep, because I am in no state to write anything right now 
<cbx33> sleep
<cbx33> we can sort it all out later
<pygi> It needs to be released today cbx33
<LaserJock> pygi: you can go to the same URL, it will redirect you
<pygi> LaserJock, thanks :)
<pygi> enjoy all
<cbx33> you too pygi 
<cbx33> sorry i wasn't more help
<pygi> cbx33, don't worry
<pygi> It'll be finished
<pygi> and it'll be today
<pygi> I'll make sure that it does :)
<cbx33> cookbook tagged and bagged 
<cbx33> it will get moved
<cbx33> I'm off to sleep
<cbx33> nn guys
* HedgeMage peeks in
<crimsun> boo
<HedgeMage> hi, crimsun :)
* bimberi switches off the lights
<crimsun> you are likely to be eaten by a grue
<bimberi> :)  is that from "adventure"?
* HedgeMage wonders what a grue is and whether she'd be eaten in the way she enjoys, or the way that involves being crushed by giant teeth and swallowed
<bimberi> aha, it's from "Zork" (aka "adventure") - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grue_(monster)
<crimsun> I'm showing my age, apparently :/
<bimberi> as am i ;)
<HedgeMage> ahh
<bimberi> crimsun: i played 'adventure' when in the days when people were charged for CPU time :)
<bimberi> funny how xyzzy and plugh stay in the memory
<crimsun> I spent weeks on Zork I
<crimsun> best game ever imo
<mhz> hi all
<mhz> neurogeek, hi there
<mhz> there is this silly bug in cfdisk when it is used in spanish, or so it seems
<mhz> neurogeek, do you use your system in spanish?
<bddebian> Howdy
<bimberi> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hello bimberi
<bimberi> i saw your nick on the dapperisotesting (orsomething like that) wikipage - so lots of installs for you too in recent times
<bddebian> Yeah I try, though not as many as I wish :-)
<bimberi> :)
* arkan0x is away: .....zzz...b
* arkan0x is back (gone 00:08:24)
<Burgundavia> hey anselmolsm
<anselmolsm> hey
<jsgotangco> hmm the edubuntu release annoucement isn't too hot (its mostly ltsp)
* jsgotangco needs to edit that
<Meshezabeel> is there anything in ubuntu that isn't in edubuntu?
<Burgundavia> Meshezabeel: hmm, the live-cd installer?
<Burgundavia> Meshezabeel: but they share the same repos
<Burgundavia> you can take a k/x/edu/ubuntu install and install the relevant -desktop package for any of the others
<Burgundavia> you can also install LTSP on any of those variants
<DaSkreech> Dapper!!! :-)
<DaSkreech> Dapper!
<DaSkreech> yay almost up to 30 :)
<DShepherd> yup
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<cbx33> morning all
<jsgotangco> morning
<DaSkreech> Morning
<cbx33> hi jsg, das
<cbx33> hey LaserJock
<cbx33> ypu still up?
<jsgotangco> hmmm
* DaSkreech is waiting for the edubuntu iso
<cbx33> DaSkreech, has it changed then
<jsgotangco> no its not
<DaSkreech> It's the same as which ISO?
<jsgotangco> i386 is already gold
<cbx33> cdimages.ubuntu.com
<jsgotangco> DaSkreech: just download today's ISO and you have release already
<Xaero_Vincent> edubuntu is for little kids tho right?
<jsgotangco> can't say about the other arches
<jsgotangco> Xaero_Vincent: :D
<Xaero_Vincent> heh
<DaSkreech> Those have torrents?
<cbx33> yup
<highvoltage> hi cbx33. got a ping from you during the night.
<cbx33> yeh 2 secs, just making breakfast
<jsgotangco> can anyone look into EdubuntuDapperReleaseAnnouncement it doesn't excite me yet
<jsgotangco> especially the features section (it needs more desktop love)
<DaSkreech> Will the torrent help those who are getting the Final relase linked on the edubuntu page?
<cbx33> highvoltage get my pm?
<DaSkreech> cbx33: would it?
<cbx33> not sure
<bimberi> jsgotangco: is "36 months" correct? (2nd para)
<jsgotangco> bimberi: still need to verify after all, LTSP provides a desktop (supported 3 years)
<jsgotangco> but LTSP itself is a server (5 years) :D
<bimberi> kk
<cbx33> bbl guys....highvoltage, i'll see you then
<bimberi> hi & cya cbx33
<DaSkreech> cbx33: I'll wait till tomorrow then
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: ping?
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<jsgotangco> who has done an edubuntu ltsp install here from today's (or rather yesterday's) build?
<jsgotangco> i got a permission denied on /opt/ltsp/i386 so it dumped me to busybox
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: pong
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: hmmm.... have you tried restarting the thin client again?
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> im restarting the server (i dunno if that'll help at all probably not)
<highvoltage> i had something similar with a xubuntu test i did last night
<highvoltage> i restarted the server and the client, because i had to remove ltsp-client and ldm from the server installation
<highvoltage> then it worked
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<jsgotangco> i have to restart both machines
<jsgotangco> to make it work
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: it works now thanks
<jsgotangco> although i noticed gartoon taking over the ubuntu logo in the server
<jsgotangco> s/gartoon/gartoon gnome logo
<highvoltage> oh no :(
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> the clients still have the ubuntu logo though
<highvoltage> for the gnome launcher?
<highvoltage> i know it has it for the ltsp usplash though
<highvoltage> xubuntu is the same there.
<jsgotangco> EKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK
<jsgotangco> even the client now has gartoon gnome
<crimsun> we totally need a pony logo :-)
<jsgotangco> wonder if this is known
<jsgotangco> or something that is considered idiosyncratic
<highvoltage> JaneW, jsgotangco: ping
<highvoltage> do we have a release announcement I can link to from the site (non-published yet)?
<JaneW> highvoltage: pong
<JaneW> er I haven't checked yet, but it should be at EdubuntuDapperReleaseAnnouncement
* JaneW checks
<highvoltage> ok, thanks
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: it desperately needs desktop love i made some edits earlier to make it more consistent
<cbx33> need anything looked at
<JaneW> highvoltage: yep, HedgeMadge did her magic there :)
<jsgotangco> cbx33: if you can add some stuff on desktop improvements that would work
<cbx33> where are we working from?
<highvoltage> JaneW: this is the news story that we'll have on the site: http://www.edubuntu.org/news/5
<highvoltage> JaneW: i thought it's best to keep it short and link to the official page on the wiki. is that fine?
<cbx33> highvoltage: that looks good
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: that could work
<jsgotangco> s/could/would
<highvoltage> great
<JaneW> highvoltage: great
<JaneW> highvoltage: but rem it;s 36 months on server 60 on desktop
<jsgotangco> errr
<jsgotangco> 36 on desktop
<jsgotangco> :D
<highvoltage> JaneW: where did i say otherwise?
* jsgotangco updates the page
<JaneW> highvoltage: " Like Ubuntu, Edubuntu 6.06 LTS offers security updates for 36 months after each release"
<highvoltage> oh i see, i just copied and pasted it from the wiki page
<highvoltage> i'll copy and paste it again from jsgotangco's update
<cbx33> could this be moved to admins section
<cbx33> Edubuntu now ships three themes by default in its -artwork package; with a simple "dpkg-reconfigure edubuntu-artwork", one can select the systemwide default look.
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: ping me when your update is complete :)
<JaneW> jsgotangco: oh is it the other way around?
<cbx33> it seems adminy
* JaneW is confused now
<jsgotangco> JaneW: servers are supported longer than desktops
<cbx33> can't it also be changed via the desktop tools?
<jsgotangco> but i would consider edubuntu as a desktop
<jsgotangco> since the image given to clients are basically "desktops"
<JaneW> jsgotangco: but the server is a server :P
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> instead of months, i've just changed it to years
* highvoltage doesn't think anyone would actually want to use Edubuntu LTS 6.06 for that long anyway, since the upcoming versions will have so many great features
<jsgotangco> 3/5 years would do
<highvoltage> yep
<cbx33> what do yo ugiuys think about the dkpg-reconfigure line i mentioned ?
<jsgotangco> please have edubuntu-users activated later
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: you mean, as apposed to having it activated earlier?
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: or, please have it activated today!
<jsgotangco> is it activated already?
<jsgotangco> heh
<cbx33> i thought it was already active?
<highvoltage> it exists, and it works, but it isn't advertised on the mailman front page yet
<crimsun> cbx33: it does seem admin-y, but you can skirt that.
<crimsun> cbx33: I would omit "a simple"
* JaneW feels like she should be baking a cake or something
* highvoltage feels so too
<cbx33> crimsun: but can't it be done by going to system-preerences-themes?
<JaneW> althought this time in the last release was MUCH mre stressful as we didn't even know if the release image would build!
<highvoltage> JaneW: but if you do bake a cake, please don't put any of those green stuff on it :)
<JaneW> highvoltage: green?
<JaneW> OH!!!!
<jsgotangco> the delay helpled a bit
<JaneW> LMAO
<cbx33> JaneW: you could use icing sugar for chalk
<crimsun> cbx33: I can't answer that due to my lack of familiarity with it, but if it's anything like *artwork, then yes
<JaneW> sorry highvoltage 
<highvoltage> JaneW: :)
* JaneW initiated highvoltage with wasabi yesterday
<jsgotangco> where is the Cookbook located
<jsgotangco> ?
<JaneW> but did not expect him to eat the entire forkful!
<highvoltage> JaneW: you were right about the clearing of sinusses though :)
<jsgotangco> wasabi?
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: awful green stuff that burns
<jsgotangco> it must be wasabi
<Burgundavia> anybody want to make the first upload to dapper-updates for Edubuntu?
<Burgundavia> moodle currently breaks
<highvoltage> egh.
<cbx33> Burgundavia: you're kidding :p
<highvoltage> cbx33: have you ever seen Burgundavia 'kidding'?
<Burgundavia> cbx33: no, I am not
<Burgundavia> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=338061
<Burgundavia> LP bug # in a sec
<highvoltage> cool, i suppose all updates start with a LPB# at some point
<Burgundavia> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/moodle/+bug/47812
<Burgundavia> highvoltage: I make jokes. Just not very often :)
* JaneW is so thrilled to see that someone else is doing the edubuntu ML admin!
<JaneW> \o/
<Burgundavia> c'est qui?
<JaneW> clearing the spam was not the highlight of my day
<cbx33> I clear spam :D
<Burgundavia> ah
<JaneW> cbx33: I love you!
<cbx33> on the ubuntu-devel list
<highvoltage> JaneW: i know :)
<cbx33> so does mhz
<cbx33> we keep fighting over who killed the most :p
* JaneW loves mhz too
<JaneW> haha
* JaneW mutters wait till you have been doing it for a year....
<highvoltage> JaneW: i've been doing it for 5 years
<highvoltage> JaneW: on some lists that get way, way more admin requests than edubuntu ;)
<highvoltage> (especially lists with windows users on them)
<highvoltage> (which sends virusses and stuff to the list)
<crimsun> Burgundavia: looks like a dupe of #5501
<Burgundavia> crimsun: it isn't because this is a fresh install
<crimsun> hmm, I'm not entirely sure given the wording of #5501
<JaneW> highvoltage: lucky you!
<JaneW> :P
<crimsun> it seems like that submitter's original installation attempt failed, too, but he unfortunately didn't provide the error from that one
<Burgundavia> crimsun: nor am I
<crimsun> in any case, moodle's a bit serious, since it has outstanding security errata
<crimsun> CVE-2006-0410, CVE-2006-0806
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> crimsun: is there anything I can do to help move the process along?
<Burgundavia> moodle is a pretty important piece of the education puzzle
<crimsun> let me refill my water bottle, and I'll dive in
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: fire away, it only needs few more tweaks on desktop improvements
<Burgundavia> crimsun: do you want to get the security issues at the same time as the installability?
<cbx33> can someone confirm the theme can be changed with the system preferences theme option?
<cbx33> then we can spice that line up
<crimsun> Burgundavia: yes, I'll have to
<Burgundavia> crimsun: probably for the best
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: thanks
<Burgundavia> crimsun: I really wanted to blog about "5 minutes to moodle" to refute this article http://reallylinux.com/docs/installmoodle.shtml
<crimsun> (oh dear, I'll need to backport those security fixes, too. Oh well, Dapper first.)
* highvoltage adds shipit link to quicklinks
<cbx33> :D
<cbx33> highvoltage: what did you decide about the meeting minutes?
<highvoltage> cbx33: that's about moving them off the wiki, right?
<cbx33> oh and does anyone have the logs from yesterday
<highvoltage> cbx33: i think it's best to keep them where they are, as we discussed previously. but i think we can move them later on...
<cbx33> highvoltage: well moving them and linking them in the quick links
<highvoltage> cbx33: i kept the logs for you
<cbx33> thanks
<cbx33> can you mail them
<ogra> Burgundavia, we have ubiquity on our liveCD (reading backlog)
* jsgotangco shows ogra a bottle of bubbly
<highvoltage> cbx33: http://www.jonathancarter.co.za/files/ubuntu-2006-05-31
<Burgundavia> ogra: ah, we do? I didn't know that
<highvoltage> ogra: good morning!
<cbx33> oh good a smal meeting
<cbx33> hi ogra 
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia: we have a live cd that only has workstation (no ltsp)
<Burgundavia> ah
<highvoltage> cbx33: yeah, wasn't too exciting
<highvoltage> cbx33: then again, that's good for a day-before-release meeting :)
<cbx33> indeed
<crimsun> Burgundavia: which apache was selected?
<crimsun> (I presume apache2, which is not the default one highlighted?)
<ogra> hmm, there should be a "upgrade" section in the release announcement
<ogra> and we should link to gettingstarted
<ogra> (for new installs)
<Burgundavia> crimsun: I just did apt-get install moodle
<jsgotangco> ogra: good idea
<ogra> jsgotangco, i agree that its to ltsp centric, feel free to flesh it out if you like :)
* jsgotangco couldn't think of anything obvious on desktop
<crimsun> Burgundavia: right, and when debconf was invoked, which options did you choose?
<Burgundavia> crimsun: none, it just died
<Burgundavia> you want the full run in a pastebin?
* jsgotangco adds upgrade information
<crimsun> Burgundavia: it didn't even ask you which Web server to install?
<crimsun> or not necessarily install but use
<cbx33> eeek
<jsgotangco> ogra: i dont think we need to do   gksudo "update-manager -d" anymore
<jsgotangco> as long as -updates are turned on
<ogra> jsgotangco, mvo has written upgrade notes 
<Burgundavia> crimsun: 14950
<ogra> we should either link to them or include parts 
<crimsun> bug #14950
* jsgotangco checks DapperUpgrades
<Burgundavia> no, pastebin http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/14950
<crimsun> ah
<jsgotangco> ogra: you got a link?
<crimsun> Burgundavia: ah, beautiful. That's because there's no /etc/apache, but there is /etc/apache2.
* crimsun fixes the postinst.
<ogra> jsgotangco, nope, i only had a draft link, will ask mvo
<ogra> jsgotangco, https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuLTSPUpgradeNotes should also be linked
<cbx33> ogra: should that one be tagged
<cbx33> for the move
<jsgotangco> thanks
<ogra> cbx33, as long as links from the release notes dont break ...
<cbx33> want me to sort it?
<cbx33> ogra: links on here https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDapperReleaseAnnouncement ?
<cbx33> oh no sorry
<cbx33> whoops
<cbx33> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDapperReleaseNotes
<cbx33> should be tagged as documentation too
<cbx33> the wiki move is today
<jsgotangco> squeeee don't edit that page yet! (i have it open)
<cbx33> so if it doesn't get tagged to to owrry too much we can port it across later
<cbx33> jsgotangco: of course not
* highvoltage is slightly nervous about the wiki move being on the same day as release
<jsgotangco> no rush on those pages till they get cleaned
<cbx33> highvoltage: me too
<cbx33> but I think we shoudl be ok
<cbx33> I tried to check all edubuntu stuff for us and tag the relevant parts
* highvoltage trusts mdke & co
<cbx33> as I said i coordinated with mdke on it last night
<ogra> cbx33, the release announcement can get archived in drupal and get wiped completely off the wiki once we released
<cbx33> don;t tag it then :p
<cbx33> ok
<highvoltage> ogra: i thought about that too, so should we just have it in drupal?
<highvoltage> this would mean that the release announcement email needs to be updated
<ogra> i think we should have it in the news section
<highvoltage> ogra: i've put it in http://www.edubuntu.org/news
<highvoltage> ogra: i'm putting it in the news sidebar as soon as the release is made :)
<ogra> dont release it yet ;)
* highvoltage nods
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: are you editing?
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: yes
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: and copying to drupal for markup
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: do you need to make changes? i suggest you do them in drupal
<jsgotangco> hrmmm
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: just give me a few secs to apply markup
<jsgotangco> ok delete the wiki afterwards 
<jsgotangco> k
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: ok
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: i removed the line that says 'teasers' and changed it to 'treats'. 'teasers' is an evil strip club chain that's putting up bill boards across south africa
<jsgotangco> lol
<JaneW> highvoltage: LOL
<ogra> http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/6.06/
<ogra> ;)
<highvoltage> yay!!!
<ogra> meh
<highvoltage> ogra: congratulations and thank you!
* JaneW CHEERS \o/
<ogra> it still says "desktop CD"
<ogra> :/
<jsgotangco> :/
<ogra> wait a while with the announcement until ubuntu has sent
<ogra> (they'll wait for the mirrors to catch up first)
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: please check the links as well
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: ok
<jsgotangco> i think that's already enough 
<jsgotangco> (we don't want it to look like a release notes page)
<highvoltage> oops, i jumped the gun
* highvoltage takes it out of news block again
<crimsun> Burgundavia: almost finished fixing
<highvoltage> can everyone help?
<highvoltage> http://www.edubuntu.org/news/5
<highvoltage> we're checking that the links are correct
<Burgundavia> crimsun: sweet. Too bad I need to sleep soon, as it is 2am here
<Burgundavia> thanks for your work
<jimjimovich2> congrats! Can't wait to start downloading.  We're planning to install our server tomorrow!  Thanks for all your work!
<jsgotangco> argghh i forgot to add a paragraph for desktop users
<highvoltage> all the links look good to me
<jsgotangco> i will just add a paragraph for desktop users to turn on -updates
<jsgotangco> (for 5.10)
<jsgotangco> or is that still needed?
<highvoltage> i don't know. ogra?
<ogra> yes, i think so
<ogra> mvo could confirm
<JaneW> edubuntu is #37 on distrowatch for last 7 days
<highvoltage> wow hey
<ogra> yeah
* JaneW is going to be watching it's steady climb
* highvoltage wonders where it will stabalise
<JaneW> let's see if we can get edubuntu blogged about and reported on as widely as possible
* highvoltage hopes for a place in top20, at least
<JaneW> highvoltage: think we can get techtonic to do an edubuntu article?
<JaneW> highvoltage: we can let them interview ogra and you etc etc
<highvoltage> JaneW: yep. i'll jabber Alastair now :)
<highvoltage> yes, consider it done
<jsgotangco> a new release is always a happy event for everyone
<highvoltage> oh, alastair isn't online atm
<JaneW> highvoltage: if he wants to come on here we can let him know whatever he wants
<highvoltage> JaneW: as soon as he is, i'll chat to him
<JaneW> YAY
<jimjimovich2> JaneW: We'll start blogging tomorrow ;)
<highvoltage> JaneW: ok
<JaneW> jimjimovich2: great thanks
<highvoltage> my blog entry will cover edubuntu kubuntu and edubuntu. i'm putting some emphasis on xubuntu though, because their work is also important (and it's important to edubuntu too)
<ogra> highvoltage, does it work now ?
<highvoltage> ogra: yes. thank God.
<highvoltage> ogra: you have no idea how stressed i was last night!
<highvoltage> ogra: they also have some non-critical issues
<jimjimovich2> highvoltage: is it possible to use xfce (xubuntu) with edubuntu?  We might need something very light for one of our networks
<ogra> i did expect janimo to look at the edubuntu seeds first ... should have checked myself :/
<highvoltage> ogra: for example, their chroot also gives the ubuntu usplash. and any user can shut down the server!
<highvoltage> jimjimovich2: that's a long-term goal of edubuntu (or it might be, at least)
<jimjimovich2> highvoltage: ok, good to know
<ogra> highvoltage, the usplash is intentional (my bad that we have no configuration options there yet, and a minor glitch)
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: i love my gnome
<jsgotangco> ogra: is the edbuntu logo replaced by gartoon gnome known?
<ogra> highvoltage, sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get install edubuntu-artwork-usplash
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: i use gnome too, but when you have 20 terminals on a server with 2GB RAM, it's better to have something simple and snappy than something fancy and frustratingly slow :)
<ogra> jsgotangco, err, nope
<jsgotangco> ogra: bug :)
<highvoltage> ogra: thanks for that tip, i'll document it somewhere ;)
<ogra> jsgotangco, in fact the edubuntu logo replaces the distributor logo in the gartoon theme
<jsgotangco> ogra: it just happened to me now
<spacey> hi there
<ogra> i dont see how you could get that
<jsgotangco> it reverted back to the gartoon gnome logo
<jsgotangco> i dunno either
<spacey> everybody is going nuts in #ubuntu
<spacey> :)
<ogra> highvoltage, the shutdown thing is a xubuntu bug...
<highvoltage> there's going to be a stampede
<spacey> 1008 users. quite funny to watch.
<jimjimovich2> spacey: yeah, quite a few more users over there ;)
<highvoltage> ogra: i realise that. hence the 'they' have some issues :)
<ogra> hooray, we have a realease !
<highvoltage> ogra: may i put it in the news block now?
<ogra> highvoltage, yep
* highvoltage saves page
<ogra> and i should grab a copy and mail it ...
<highvoltage> ogra: top entry in the news block :)
<ogra> :)
<spacey> congrats :)
<jimjimovich2> great work everyone!
<ogra> \o/
<jsgotangco> ogra: congrats
<JaneW> highvoltage: I think we shouls highlight it right in the front page too
<JaneW> don't you think?
<JaneW> for a day or week or so at least
<JaneW> there will be traffic hitting our site and we want them to see it immediatly and be directed to the download easily
<highvoltage> JaneW: yep, i'll get on it now
<JaneW> TY
* jsgotangco starts to blog
<jsgotangco> heh
<JaneW> jsgotangco: clap clap
<jsgotangco> one line would do
<jsgotangco> heh
* JaneW gives everyone a break, to go blog and publicise
<jimjimovich2> ok, i'll blog too :)
<ogra> can you all test the torrents please (no need to download them completely, but check the connection is establishing)
<JaneW> http://www.ubuntu.com/ <-yikes!
<JaneW> when did that happen?
<Burgundavia> JaneW: in the works a while, but last night
<JaneW> cool
<ogra> mail sent :)
<JaneW> ogra: yay
<ogra> :)
* highvoltage pops the IRC champaign
<JaneW> fizzzzzzzzzz
* highvoltage sprays it all over ogra and JaneW 
* highvoltage hands some more bottles to the rest of the edubuntu team
* ogra enjoys the shower 
<highvoltage> ogra: this must be the first one in days eh?
<ogra> days ? 
<JaneW> ogra: I hope you have planned some relaxing and recreation for the week-end?
<JaneW> you more than deserve it
<ogra> indeed i have :)
<jimjimovich2> ok, got a fast blog post up :) more to come once I actually get my hands on the release
<jsgotangco> cheater!
<jimjimovich2> cheater?
<cbx33> highvoltage: are you thre?
<cbx33> shouldn't there be some kind of difference in the uk address to the rest of the world?
<cbx33> currently it says http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/6.06/
<ogra> meh, to late ...
<highvoltage> cbx33: yep
<ogra> r.u.c is uk.u.c though
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> just checking
<cbx33> sorry my irc connection sux today
<ogra> any news from the torrent test front ? 
<jsgotangco> sorry doing it now
<jsgotangco> are there seeds in amd64?
<ogra> should be, but i also dont see i386 connecting
<jsgotangco> same here
<jsgotangco> i think the tracker got loaded too much
<JaneW> ogra: I disagree btw
<highvoltage> JaneW: how does the edubuntu news items get into distrowatch. do you post them there? or do they pick it up?
<JaneW> highvoltage: I was wondering that myself
<ogra> JaneW, you disagree ? 
<JaneW> I *think* they pick them up
<JaneW> ogra: re announcement to e-d
<JaneW> *shrug*
<JaneW> not going to fight it out though :)
<jsgotangco> they pick it up
<jsgotangco> along with lwn
<highvoltage> ah
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: nice blog entry. i like that you've put the cover there too :)
<jsgotangco> 10 MINUTES
<JaneW> jsgotangco: very nice, I am going to do the same soon
<crimsun> Burgwork: fixed, testing locally now before pushing to security-review
<JaneW> highvoltage: nice blog post too
<highvoltage> JaneW: ty
<jsgotangco> ogra: its not connecting on my side for all 3 arches
<ogra> yep, same here
* highvoltage checks from here
<highvoltage> the planet effect? <g>
<highvoltage> all three arches are fine for me, using the international mirror
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: torrent
* jsgotangco is thinking of going to the mall later and grab some nachos
<highvoltage> ah
* JaneW blogs about edubuntu and gets all misty eyed
<ogra> JaneW, dont cry, you'll always have a home here and you'll be back one day, i'm sure :)
<jimjimovich2> JaneW: got a link?
<JaneW> http://janewsblog.blogspot.com/
<JaneW> ogra: thanks :)
* MysteriousGEGL hugs JaneW
<crimsun> ogra: Is moodle a semi-important package for edubuntu?
<ogra> crimsun, not anymore
<MysteriousGEGL> JaneW: TIGHTLY
<crimsun> k
<ogra> we once thought about including it ...
<ogra> and you will likely find most of its users in edubuntu
* JaneW hugs MysteriousGEGL back
<ogra> but i dontr consider it majorly important
<JaneW> although you feel like a stranger in that disguise!
<crimsun> upon Corey's behest I just spent a couple hours fixing the security and debconf bugs
<ogra> crimsun, thats nice anyway ... no matter if we consider it important, thanks a lot ! :)
<highvoltage> MysteriousGEGL: hey jerome, why all the mystery? :)
<crimsun> np, got to refresh my debconf-fu
<ogra> :)
<MysteriousGEGL> highvoltage: im going out for some some tex-mex at a nearby mall and i dont want to turn off my work PC
<pips1> congrats for the release to everyone!! :-)
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra] : Order: http://shipit.edubuntu.org || Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu || Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org |Website http://www.edubuntu.org | MEETING: every Wednesday see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda | Read before installing: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes | HAPPY DAPPER DAY !
<spacey> :>
<ogra> -> lunch
<pips1> bon appetit
<highvoltage> ogra: seems like germans love edubuntu... we got 227 hits just from http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/73728 alone this morning :)
<highvoltage> make that 231 :)
<pips1> highvoltage I'm looking at that very same statistics page as you. I guess we both had the same thought. ;-)
<highvoltage> heh :)
<pips1> drupal is holding up fine :)
<pips1> I'm curious how it behaves under more load...
<highvoltage> pips1: guess what, even mhz wants to use drupal now in one of his projects ;)
<pips1> wow, cool :-D
<pips1> traffic from heise is increasing steadily, hey
<highvoltage> yep. from everywhere, it seems :)
<spacey> i'm using drupal now as well
<highvoltage> spacey: where's your installation?
<spacey> www.osso.nl
<pips1> hehe, another drupal champ
<spacey> finally something that worked like i wanted
<spacey> and its really quick and easy
<spacey> i like that
<highvoltage> spacey: that domain name looks a lot like one of my old domain names: www.ossn.co.za 
<spacey> its my company website
<ogra> highvoltage, nice :)
<spacey> on dapper release party i will probably give a edubuntu presentation/talk. if it doesn't fall on the wrong date
<JaneW> why's edubuntu not on http://distrowatch.com/ yet?
<ogra> because we had no separate announcement
<ogra> i guess
<ogra> same as the other news sites
<JaneW> ogra: :(
<JaneW> ogra: post to e-d please...
<JaneW> or let me, I'll take the heat
<JaneW> np
<ogra> :)
<ogra> can you crosspost to edubuntu-users as well ? 
<ogra> (i'm about to make it public)
<spacey> nice
<JaneW> sure
<JaneW> although I am not subscribed
<ogra> should work since some time
<ogra> and you are subscribed
<ogra> everybody from -devel is autosubscribed there
<JaneW> highvoltage: TY
<JaneW> oic
<JaneW> heh
<highvoltage> ogra: :)
<highvoltage> ogra: feel free to add me as list admin, if you want
<ogra> will do
<highvoltage> ogra: you can use jonathan@edubuntu.org :)
<ogra> :)
<kbrooks> <curious>
<kbrooks> why should kids have the ability to modify source code?
<kbrooks> </curious>
<ogra> kbrooks, context ? 
<kbrooks> ogra: site
<highvoltage> kbrooks: so that they can learn how to contribute back to edubuntu :)
<kbrooks> highvoltage: at least python is a easy language
<highvoltage> kbrooks: btw, where on the site does it say that kids should have the ability to modify the sourcecode?
<kbrooks> highvoltage: it doesn't.
<kbrooks> "not only are the tools you need available free of charge, you, and thousands of developers around the world, have the right to modify and build upon your software until it works exactly the way you want it to."
<highvoltage> yeah. you have the right to do it. doesn't mean you have to :)
<ogra> yeah, isnt that great, you can directly improve the OS in your schools IT programming course ;)
<kbrooks> ogra: ;)
<highvoltage> *gulp*
<highvoltage> edubuntu front page: 70241 reads
<ogra> in fact thats a great idea, we should have a howto for teachers wanting to do that
<kbrooks> ogra: hmm
<highvoltage> it was like, 5000 earlier this week
<kbrooks> ogra: dont howtos for edubuntu have to be non-geeky?
<ogra> kbrooks, nope, depends on the target audience for the specific howto 
<kbrooks> ogra: ah
<JaneW> highvoltage: are you going to add a release announcement banner to the front page?
<JaneW> highvoltage: heno is doing that for the ubuntu page
<highvoltage> JaneW: hmmm... i did... doesn't is show up?
<JaneW> cos it should be highlighted for a while
<JaneW> no
* JaneW refreshes again
<highvoltage> ah, ok. anonymous users can't see it...
<ogra> btw, didnt you want to put up the xubuntu logo ? 
<highvoltage> JaneW: will sort out now
<highvoltage> ogra: yes, i just have to resize it nicely
<JaneW> highvoltage: ty
<ogra> seems we triggered the same for the ubuntu homepage
<ogra> just grab it from there then :)
<highvoltage> ogra: the xubuntu logo looks a bit different than the others
<ogra> heno is just working on getting it up on w.u.c
<JaneW> highvoltage: also I am not sure if I am the only one, but don't *love* the yellow background on the theme
* ogra really likes it :P
<JaneW> ogra: loves yellow :P
<ogra> and it reminds on the old ubuntu theme :)
<JaneW> esp mustard yellow
<JaneW> heh
<highvoltage> ogra: there it is now, but i'm not too happy with it
<highvoltage> ogra: i'll make it fit in nicer a bit later
<ogra> the first ubuntu wiki and homepage had a very yellow backgropund color
<jimjimovich2> the site really is looking great.  I remember coming there a few months ago and being very disappointed with the lack of info.  Things are really looking a lot better today.
<JaneW> highvoltage: it's a bit big, but otherwise fine
<highvoltage> JaneW: yep, that's basically all i need to fix, the size and proportions
<highvoltage> JaneW: you should see a text banner at the top now
<highvoltage> JaneW: i'll make a nice graphic that we can put up there for the next 3 days or so
* highvoltage had that on the list, but more important things kept popping op
<highvoltage> up
<ogra> we should also make clear somewhere on our page that the edubuntu server falls *not* into the 5 year support category ...
<JaneW> highvoltage: yay thanks, can I be demanding and ask for it to have lines arround it?
<JaneW> highvoltage: like the copyright stuff at the bottom?
<JaneW> highvoltage: at the moment it's easy to ignore it, I'd like it a bit more highlights, line a border or even a background or something
<JaneW> a graphic would be nice even
<highvoltage> ogra: good point
<highvoltage> JaneW: ok
<JaneW> tyvm
<highvoltage> JaneW: i put a border around it, should help a little...
<ogra> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-users
<ogra> there we are
<ogra> and it has already the first mail in the archive :)
<highvoltage> excelente
<highvoltage> whohoo! i scored first post!
<lucasvo> ubuntu release isn't on slashdot?
<JaneW> highvoltage: that's great. I am happy :)
<JaneW> thank-you
<JaneW> love the megaphone too
<ogra> highvoltage, is that in gartoon ? 
<highvoltage> ogra: yes, it is. i try to keep our icons as gartoony as possible
<ogra> hwats it used for ? 
* pygi is still working on cookbook stuff :-/
<ogra> *what's
* highvoltage checks
* ogra wasnt aware of a "full volume" button where that would fit :)
<highvoltage> ogra: gnome-settings-sound
<ogra> heh
<highvoltage> (according to the file name, which is gnome-settings-sound.svg)
<pygi> ogra, JaneW, you are going to have a cookbook release in like an hour
<highvoltage> ogra: whenever i need icons for edubuntu, i just dig through /usr/share/icons/gartoon :)
<JaneW> pygi: AWESOME
<highvoltage> another thing to announce. yippee!
<JaneW> pygi: I will have to do some cooking to celebrate :)
<ogra> pygi, i'd like to review it, where is it ?
<JaneW> highvoltage: get your megaphone ready
<ogra> seems the wiki only has some small parts
<pygi> ogra, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowToCookEdubuntu/Worksheet
<pygi> ogra, it's bad, un-full, not really useful, but it's a start :)
<ogra> its good as far as i can see
<ogra> the HW requirements need to match the CD covers
<pygi> ogra, I think they do
<ogra> hmm, right, i looked at the client specs, heh
<ogra> (we dont have client specs on the CD)
<ogra> oh, and cbx33 has some typos in his commands in LTSP management
<pygi> ogra, fix them then :)
<ogra> tsk, he wrote the manpages for both commands he mistyped
<ogra> funnily both of them are repeated in the section below and typed right :)
<JaneW> yay edubuntu notice on distrowatch now
<pygi> ogra, hehe :)
<pygi> ogra, are there going to be any serious changes in Edgy's LTSP?
<ogra> i hope so
<highvoltage> more hits! yeay!
<pygi> You hope so? That's going to make my job harder :(
<highvoltage> pygi: if he knows what's good for him
* highvoltage ducks
* pygi shoots down highvoltage
<highvoltage> pygi: :)
<highvoltage> pygi: ogra has a priority list for ltsp enhancements
<ogra> local devices is highest priority
<highvoltage> pygi: if he can get that list in for edgy, then i for one would be very, very happy
<ogra> but we also might change from ldm to gdm 
<pygi> yes, yes,oki :)
<highvoltage> and network swap 2nd?
* pygi is asking because of s-c-p
<ogra> and the ltsp code itself is just being completely rewritten in debian
<ogra> i'll likely base edgy on that code
<pygi> ogra, so that would mean current s-c-p won't work?
<highvoltage> interesting.
<ogra> s-c-p *should* be in main in edgy, but its not near the top of my todo
* highvoltage should get that as soon as it gets into unstable
<ogra> in fact i'm hoping for contributors for s-c-p rather than wanting to write it myself
<pygi> ogra, no worries about s-c-p development, I'll do that...but I am interested in LTSP changes which will affect it
<highvoltage> shame. ogra hasn't even had anough time to recover from this release, and we're already harassing him for functionality :)
<ogra> i'm focused on LTSPManager with the time i have for gui work in edgy
<ogra> highvoltage, i'm hot to jump on it... 
<pygi> ogra, haven't we agreed "ages ago" that I'll do the development?
<ogra> i havent even had time to see the changes on ltsp that were worked out at debconf
<pygi> (one or two features at least ready for edgy)
<ogra> pygi, just do it :)
<ogra> its in universe, so take it over and become a MOTU with it ;)
<pygi> ogra, ergh, I am not ever a member :)
<ogra> so go ahead, we have EC meeting on the 7th ;)
<pygi> nah, no need to be member :)
<pygi> I wouldnt be accepted :-D
<ogra> haha
<pygi> Anyway, I can always bug you when I need to upload  new test version :)
<ogra> well, the idea in giving away s-c-p into others hands wasnt to have more work :)
<pygi> hehe :)
<pygi> That wouldnt be hard...I promise I'll bug you about uploading just every second day :)
<pygi> no more, no less :P
* ogra ponders if he should jump on the edubuntu-artwork fixes right now or if he takes a lazy day
* highvoltage votes jump on it
<highvoltage> well, i haven't really done any work work today so far. so i might as well jump in and edubuntu for the rest of the day as well :)
<ogra> highvoltage, where was your "education" menu icon, i think about including it in the dapper-updates upload
* highvoltage looks
<highvoltage> ogra: that one comes from the crystalsvg icon set, but looks gartoony enough to fit in :)
<ogra> yes
<highvoltage> i think i found our one from /usr/share/icons/crystalsvg/48x48/apps/edu_miscellaneous.png
<ogra> i just remembered you had a wikipage about it
* pygi can get many wallpappers for edgy if we need them
<pygi> (original, unique ones)
<ogra> pygi, for the 800MB isos
<highvoltage> pygi: excellent :)
<highvoltage> wallpapers++
<pygi> ogra, hm, we have those?
<ogra> no, i was joking
<pygi> bah :)
<highvoltage> they exist, but you have to use overburn, and buy special media, not all writers support it.
<ogra> 700 is the bigges you can get from us
<ogra> and that wont change i fear
<highvoltage> it will. i gaurantee you.
<highvoltage> the isos will get bigger when we eventually switch to DVD's :)
* pygi doesnt like wiki formatting :-/
<highvoltage> i think it's unlikely that we'll still be distributing CD's by 2008.
<highvoltage> by then DVD's should be standard enough.
<ogra> well ...
* pygi suggest blu-ray discs ;)
<pygi> hey jsgotangco :)
<jsgotangco> hi
<pygi> ogra, anything else you need from me for edgy except the s-c-p?
<jsgotangco> thinking of edgy now????
<ogra> i havent really thought about edgy yet
<ogra> paris will bring the plans :)
<pygi> ogra, hm, oki, if you need anything just poke me :)
* pygi wont be in paris :(
<ogra> but we'll have more concrete stuff after paris
<jsgotangco> really this isn't the time to poke about edgy ;)
<pygi> ogra, I can write the spec for s-c-p for Paris, if you want to discuss it there with others
<jsgotangco> because we're yet to have the crack week in paris
<ogra> jsgotangco, what about dapper-backports :)
<jsgotangco> weee
<ogra> if we're not allowed to talk edgy yet :)
<jsgotangco> bring it on heh
<ogra> :)
<jsgotangco> hmm the art list is really inconsistent 
<jsgotangco> a week ago there were a lot of trolling
<ogra> now there is viper550
<jsgotangco> yeah
<ogra> that weights it out 
<jsgotangco> i was about to say that
<jsgotangco> ego boosting heh
<ogra> :)
<jsgotangco> and our ever reliable Vincent Trouiliez trolling about evolution
<ogra> heh
<ogra> remind me that we lock him in somewhere once we arrive in paris
<ogra> i want him for some BOFs for user management etc
<pygi> jsgotangco, we'll have meeting in like two weeks, just so you know :)
<ogra> i.e. proper sabayon integration for edubuntu
<jsgotangco> is there sabayon-pessulus integration happening?
<ogra> no idea
<jsgotangco> seems like a sensible idea though
<ogra> but i want either of them integrated in next edubuntu
<jsgotangco> yeah
<ogra> or pessulus integration with s-c-p or something like that
* pygi takes notes
* jsgotangco will have to email clan a bit brb
<ogra> pygi, no need to yet ... thats just random brainstorming 
<pygi> ogra, it is nice to have ideas which I can use :)
<jsgotangco> we can lock up vuntz as well for pessulus
<pygi> are you going to make a spec at paris then or should I assemble one for you so you could discuss it in Paris?
<ogra> someone requested a logout timer, that would also be a s-c-p feature i think
<ogra> pygi, feel free to prepare one 
<pygi> ogra, oki, will do :)
<pips1> s-c-p = ?
<ogra> jsgotangco, thats what i meant with "locvk him in"
<pygi> pips1, student control panel
<ogra> pips1, still student control panel ... like last week when you asked ;P
<pygi> ogra, lol :)
<pips1> ogra huh?
<jsgotangco> ogra: Vincent Trouiliez =! Vincent Untz
<pips1> that wasn't me, afaik
<ogra> or was it the week before ? sorry then :)
<pips1> ogra :-P
<ogra> jsgotangco, uh. right
* ogra hugs pips1 
<ogra> happy release day dude
<pips1> yeah :-D
* pips1 shouts a big release wooopeee from down below in his work trench
<pygi> highvoltage, will we be able to link to cookbook from edubuntu homepage?
* ogra wonders when the floor breaks from the heavy weight in #ubuntu ... over 1000 people partying
<pygi> ogra, can we link?
<jsgotangco> yeah
<highvoltage> pygi: of course!
<ogra> indeed !
<pygi> thanks :)
<highvoltage> pygi: ideally, we should have a version of the cookbook inside the site as well
<pygi> highvoltage, indeed :)
<jsgotangco> heh i just downloaded my first dapper-update
<pygi> jsgotangco, joy :)
<jsgotangco> heh acpi
<jsgotangco> err
<jsgotangco> pcmcia-cs rather
<ogra> yeah
<cbx33> afternoon all
<jsgotangco> cbx33: happy dapper day
<cbx33> happy dapper day jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> ryan_rousseau: happy dapper day
<ryan_rousseau> jsgotangco: =)  Happy dapper day to you, and everyone else
<pygi> ryan_rousseau, hey
<pygi> LP is behaving to some other people also, not just bzr thingy :-/
<cbx33> have they not upgrades the bzr thing yet?
<cbx33> so is everyone relaxing today
<cbx33> or starting to get ready for edgy
<cbx33> I know which one I'm doing :p
<pygi> cbx33, preparing cookbook release
<jsgotangco> im not doing anything at the moment
* cbx33 is working gisomount :D
<pygi> cbx33, o joy :)
<pygi> Make a KDE version as well? :)
<cbx33> that's the plan
<pygi> cbx33, have you separated backend then?
<Yagisan> cbx33: does it work with other images my by Wintendo apps ?
<Yagisan> s/my/made
<pygi> Yagisan, ISO only
<cbx33> ISO only at the mo
<Yagisan> consider it a feature request ;)
* Yagisan only uses .iso, but others ..
<cbx33> cool
<cbx33> I'm sure it can be added in
<cbx33> I'm just working on the md5sum calculator function
<pygi> cbx33, some can, most not
<pygi> (not open format)
<cbx33> true
<jsgotangco> ogra: did i tell you about my visa episode heh
<ogra> only about the first part i think, how did it evolve ?
<jsgotangco> heh ok, its still unresolved, because the consul asked me to get a visa recommendation letter from the local Frech Trade Commission
<jsgotangco> and that agency asks me like 4 documents more
<jsgotangco> for a recommendation letter
<jsgotangco> the funny thing
<jsgotangco> is that the office of visa affairs gives out "Visit France" stickers to anyone coming in and out
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: oh no. i'm going tomorrow to server my docs
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: i need to go back on the 12th to talk to them
<jsgotangco> same here
<jsgotangco> i call up the trade commission office
<jsgotangco> they have an IVR system telling me to visit france
<jsgotangco> lol
<jsgotangco> i wonder to myself how can i visit france when i can't even get a visa easily despite the documents
<pygi> ogra, I am going to release cookbook stuff
<jsgotangco> where is it?
<pygi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowToCookEdubuntu/Chapters/
<jsgotangco> license?
<pygi> jsgotangco, usual Ubuntu doc licence?
<jsgotangco> dual license strategy, CC by SA, GFDL
<jsgotangco> but there's a wiki move to PD so better make that license explicit
<jsgotangco> and all authors agree to it
<highvoltage> oooh, nice!
<pygi> what licence should go there then?
<pygi> highvoltage, what? :P
<lucasvo> SA sucks
<highvoltage> pygi: dual license
<pygi> highvoltage, the cookbook is bad if you say thats nice :)
<pygi> ah,oki :)
<lucasvo> GFDL allows derivates?
<Yagisan> PD sucks more
<lucasvo> what's PD?
<Yagisan> Public Domain
<highvoltage> pygi: and your chapters too, of course (sorry reading messages backwards here ;) )
<lucasvo> yup
* Yagisan off to read the cookbook
<lucasvo> I think CC by is best
<lucasvo> because if you have SA people can't change it
<pygi> jsgotangco, should I go for CC then?
<jsgotangco> yeah its the friendliest
<lucasvo> pygi: which one?
<pygi> oki, what one exactly?
<cbx33> w00t
<jsgotangco> should be CC-by-SA imo
<pygi> lucasvo, sharealike-noncommercial?
<lucasvo> I vote against SA
<Yagisan> IIRC the new CC-SA licenses should be more DFSG friendly
<jsgotangco> why?
<cbx33> gisomount now calcualtes md5sum :D
<lucasvo> maybe NC
<Yagisan> lucasvo: all or just non-commercial ?
<lucasvo> Yagisan: I am not sure about that
<cbx33> with a pulsing progress bar and everything
<cbx33> :D
<jsgotangco> cbx33: playing around with glade eh?
<cbx33> ineed
<lucasvo> cbx33: where is bzr ?
<cbx33> hang on
<pygi> when you agree on licence, poke me :)
<Yagisan> lucasvo: I'm not in favour of NC, because I like to use my docs to make money (if possible)
<cbx33> http://www.progbox.co.uk/gisomount
<lucasvo> Yagisan: what do you think?
<cbx33> i think
<jsgotangco> lucasvo: NC is fine if its all agreed upon by parties
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: uh, not good for canonical
<jsgotangco> CC-by-SA is the friendliest to both parties (commercial or not)
<jsgotangco> Yagisan: yes
<cbx33> the md5sum function currently only works on the iso in the first entry box :D
<Yagisan> lucasvo: I usually use CC-BY-SA
<cbx33> but it's stil indevelopment
<lucasvo> jsgotangco: but it doesn't allow derivates
<lucasvo> I would make it CC-BY 
<cbx33> jsgotangco, this is my first python project 
<bddebian> Howdy
<cbx33> hey bddebian 
* cbx33 hugs bddebian 
<bddebian> Hi cbx33
<cbx33> anyone any clue when LP bzr will be updated?
<jsgotangco> lucasvo: ok how about attribution 2.5
<Yagisan> lucasvo: you don't like CC-BY-SA ?
<jsgotangco> you can derive, commercial, but must attribute
<lucasvo> yes
<lucasvo> I don't like No derivates
<jsgotangco> http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.5/
<cbx33> ogra, you got a second?
<highvoltage> 'no derivatives' is sucky
<lucasvo> sorry I misunderstood SA
<lucasvo> I agree with SA
<pygi> why we want it to be able to used commercialy? :-/
<lucasvo> I vote for CC-BY-SA
* cbx33 too
<cbx33> i think
<Yagisan> pygi: uh, canonical ? you know those people that pay ogra
<jsgotangco> ok that's settled
<pygi> Yagisan, heh
<Yagisan> pygi: CC-BY-SA is most like the GPL
<spacey> right
<spacey> thats fine with me as well
* pygi does a search on CC-BY-SA
<ogra> Yagisan, i doubt canonical would print it, but i know some germans that want to translate it and make a printed version
<jsgotangco> http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.5/
<ogra> cbx33, ?
<jsgotangco> ogra: i agree
<pygi> ogra, we'll have it printed as well
<cbx33> ogra, you mentioned about using the volume label for the mounting in gisomount
<highvoltage> saying that people can't use it for commercial purposes, immediately makes it a non-free license.
<cbx33> do you have a way of extracing the label from the iso?
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: correct
<lucasvo> lucasvo@supernova:~$ bzr branch http://www.progbox.co.uk/gisomount/ gisomount
<lucasvo> [======                                                     ]  fetch phase 0/4
<pygi> highvoltage, thats not true
<lucasvo> bzr is slow
<highvoltage> pygi: yes, it is.
<Yagisan> pygi: it is
<jsgotangco> pygi: it is
<cbx33> lucasvo, indeed it is
<ogra> cbx33, i'm sure there is one, buut i wouldnt know more about it ...
<spacey> it is!
<cbx33> ok
<pygi> o joy, so much "it is"
<highvoltage> pygi: sorry, I can point you to some FSF docs, if you want?
<jsgotangco> don't argue with people who are passionate about licenses heh
<ogra> lucasvo, make sure to use 0.8 or newer
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: damn straight
<lucasvo> ogra: I a 
<pygi> highvoltage, no need, I know licences stuff, just ... :)
<highvoltage> just?
<lucasvo> ogra: what's in dapper isn't good?
<lucasvo> ogra: I mean the bzr
* jsgotangco prefers GFDL but most people find it too restrictive in a way
<ogra> lucasvo, dapper has 0.8
<Yagisan> ogra: yes, but you do offer support for it, so best to make sure
<lucasvo> jsgotangco: gfdl doesn't have such nice pages afaik
<lucasvo> with the cool icons :)
<jsgotangco> yeah
* highvoltage does find gfdl a bit restrictive, ironically
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: it's the "thou shalt not modify this part" that that makes GFDL non-free to me
<pygi> Yagisan, lets put all stuff in public domain then :)
<Yagisan> pygi: ah, no
<Yagisan> pygi: lets relicense all ubuntu as BSD then
<pygi> why not? its ultimate freedom :)
<Yagisan> pygi: same thing
<pygi> no, BSD is restrictive compared to PD
<Yagisan> pygi: it does not work in all countries
<Yagisan> pygi: pick a new BSD
<pygi> Anyway, I am outvoted
<highvoltage> the BY-SA sounds like a good license for nearly any written stuff.
<jsgotangco> PD is not recognized in some places
<pygi> highvoltage, yes, yes, ok
<pygi> so we'll go wit BY-SA
<jsgotangco> By-SA is the friendliest IMO
<lucasvo> is there also just SA?
<highvoltage> it's also the best for technical reasons, imo.
<pygi> jsgotangco, care to add licence to main page while I do the announcement?
<jsgotangco> pygi: just one line would do (currently talking to someone for a project)
<Yagisan> pygi: besides, you really want someone to take your work, claim it is entirely theirs, and sell it ?
<cbx33> lucasvo, is it done yet?
<Yagisan> lucasvo: yes
<pygi> jsgotangco, oki :)
<lucasvo> cbx33: no
<cbx33> eeek
<cbx33> it should be.....is it making any progress?
<lucasvo> yes
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> cbx33, did you bzr 0.8 to create that repo ? 
<cbx33> I'm pretty sure i did
<cbx33> it has knits anyway
<ogra> ok
<cbx33> cos LP doesn;t pick it up
<cbx33> :)
<pygi> jsgotangco, hopefully you are happy now :P
<jsgotangco> pygi: this is not me being, happy, this is making sure what we release is acceptable to people
<jsgotangco> EEEKKKK
<jsgotangco> what's that big orange text in the ubuntu website
<Yagisan> OMG! we waz hacked :-P
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: it's big orange text
<cbx33> it's breaks a little here too
<spacey> god thats ugly
<cbx33> when the history bar is open
<cbx33> on 1024x768
<spacey> but i like that catogory stuff 
<cbx33> yes
<Yagisan> probably made by the edubuntu kindy testers
* Yagisan ducks and runs for cover
* highvoltage runs after Yagisan 
<Yagisan> :-P
* highvoltage runs out of breath and falls over
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: it looks so dapper..and out of place
<lucasvo> yes
<cbx33> I think in the blurb below they should have xplain LTS a little more
<highvoltage> ew, THAT text!? i haven't seen that before. ew!
<jsgotangco> it ate a quarter of browser space
* Yagisan stops running, and swigs down a red bull
<jsgotangco> let's post this to ubuntu-art heh
<highvoltage> and here i was afraid that the edubuntu site might not look mature enough
<ogra> heh
* jsgotangco feels evil
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: mhuhahahaha
<Yagisan> you mean it really wasn't made for the kids =-O
<cbx33> i think desktop and server should have been photos
<highvoltage> why didn't they use the ubuntu font? that font is AWFUL
<cbx33> The following packages have been kept back:
<cbx33>   bzr eject libpam-runtime mozilla-thunderbird
<cbx33> how can i get it to update bzr?
* Yagisan wonders if ogra has access to a sparc running ubuntu
<ogra> nope
<ogra> not directly ... 
<ogra> fabbione runs one
<bddebian> I was looking on sleaze-bay at Sparcs yesterday :-(
<Yagisan> ah, then nevermind
<ogra> i'd like to have one for ltsp development :)
* Yagisan would like to have one just because, well, why do I need a reason ?
<bddebian> heh
<lucasvo> I don't really like the term "Ubuntu Member"
<ogra> hmm, do we have the dvd in the website download section already ? 
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/releases/6.06/release/
* highvoltage actually has a sparc based thin client
<highvoltage> ogra: i might be able to send you one, i'll investigate tomorrow :)
<ogra> highvoltage, nah, i'm intrested in the server side :)
<highvoltage> ok
<lucasvo> because then people think not being a member means not being part of the community
<ogra> i actually have space for a little datacenter in the new house :)
<bddebian> Nice
<ogra> so my old spare 19" cabinet wants to be filled
* JaneW is going to celebrate the release by working on my anime thighs - I am off to a v-box class
<ogra> have fun
<cbx33> JaneW, nice :p
<bddebian> Hentai?
* bddebian hides
<JaneW> haha
* cbx33 slaps bddebian 
<cbx33> :p
<JaneW> bddebian: maybe later :P
<bddebian> hehe
<cbx33> you naughty boy
<cbx33> and just what do you use Ubuntu for eh....
<bddebian> I will never tell :_)
<rousseau_> jsgotangco: not sure if you got my last message, the network here is acting up.  But I believe my specs are ready for your review, whenever you have time.  But now I am off to have some stitches removed.
<highvoltage> JaneW: there are actually v-box classes? i don't think they have that at my v-active.
<JaneW> highvoltage: yes, it's cool!
<jsgotangco> eewwk ryan left
<jsgotangco> yeah i have those specs in my todo later
<pygi> jsgotangco, saw the announcement?
<jsgotangco> pygi: just saw it thanks
* jsgotangco was downstairs with daughter
* Yagisan feels odd whenever he sees the words hentai and anime. It seems to mean something completely different in english, rather then the literal translation of crazy animation
<highvoltage> Yagisan: if you're like my friends, then hentai = anime porn
<jsgotangco> actually
<jsgotangco> that's a very big misnomer
<jsgotangco> some associate hentai with tentacles heh
<highvoltage> heh
<bddebian> ugh?
<lucasvo> is the fridge down?
<highvoltage> all the ubuntu sites are very, very slow :/
<ogra> indeed
<ogra> its release day
<ogra> the lines to the datacenter are glowing
<jsgotangco> heh
<highvoltage> yay!
<jsgotangco> good think i rsynced earlier
* Yagisan had nothing to update for days
<highvoltage> good thing i debmirrored the entire i386 main multiverse and universe yesterday :)
<highvoltage> (through our apt-proxy, of course, which contained a huge amount of those packages)
<jsgotangco> jeezz my 4 year old just said "oh my god its ubuntu"
<highvoltage> hehe
<Yagisan> heh
<Yagisan> mine 2 year old came out with her first full sentence today
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: i'm going to have to blog that
<jsgotangco> she knows the difference between ubuntu and windows
<ogra> jsgotangco, tsk
<Yagisan> it's not hard. windows = blue screen, ubuntu = colours ;)
<ogra> she should have said edubuntu
<bddebian> heh
<ogra> :)
<jsgotangco> ogra: i actually had her say that before and made it a startup sound
<cbx33> ogra, I've done it
<cbx33> :D
<cbx33> I can now read iso file names :D
<cbx33> volume labels 
* Yagisan is bad. I play doom with my kids
<highvoltage> Yagisan: vista will be 40% bluer than Kubuntu: http://photos.jonathancarter.co.za/misc/windows_vista
<cbx33> so your bug will be fixed soon
<ogra> ah, nice :)
<cbx33> Yagisan, i used to play quake with my little sister
<jsgotangco> we have 2 nintendo DS at home, me and my daughter play Nintendogs
* jsgotangco hides in shame
<Yagisan> cbx33: yeah, but I doubt she is 2, and I have full models, gore, screams of pain etc
<jsgotangco> lol
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: where did you get that?
<Yagisan> highvoltage: looks just like it did when I tried longhorn
<cbx33> Yagisan, hehe
<cbx33> ogra, can i pass variables to a class constructor?
<Yagisan> cbx33: she loves it. map01 in about 6 minutes on ultra violence
<cbx33> yikes 
<Yagisan> cbx33: just get the  chainsaw and she will do it
<cbx33> Yagisan, on map02, I've forgotten how to to the secret door at the back of the round armour room
<Yagisan> cbx33: but pistol only she runs out of ammo and the imps get her
<Yagisan> cbx33: doom1 or doom2 ?
<cbx33> 1
* Yagisan usually does doom2
<cbx33> oh
<cbx33> or is it map 01 of doom2
<Yagisan> cbx33: I've forgotten that one :(
* cbx33 checks
* jsgotangco will have time to finally test deng
<Yagisan> cbx33: in doom2 next to the red key, press "use" against the walls, one opens
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: great :)
<cbx33> it's map01 of doom2
<cbx33> can someone give me 2 secs of help
<Yagisan> how about you ogra, feel like relaxing by testing a game ?
<cbx33> how do i pass variables to class constructor?
<Yagisan> cbx33: sorry, NFC.
<cbx33> in python
<cbx33> oop
<cbx33> i got it
* Yagisan regrets none of my testers tested multi-play at all
<cbx33> oooh
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> could i 
<cbx33> ?
<Yagisan> it doesn't seem to work to well over the net, compared to lan
<cbx33> yes i can
<cbx33> Yagisan, want a game over the net?
<Yagisan> cbx33: love to, but, I'm actually washing my little girl in the bath (actually, I'm 5 feet away watching her, but still)
<Yagisan> cbx33: I will ping you shortly though it you still can
<cbx33> I'd die in an instant but it'd be fun
<cbx33> sure
<Yagisan> s/it/sf
<cbx33> I used to be a pretty good CS player
<Yagisan> cbx33: I'd do co-op. I'm rusty
<cbx33> w00t
<Yagisan> max is 16 players, but that is deathmatch. otherwise 4 dor doom/heretic and 8 hexen
* Yagisan has only enough bandwidth for 3 :(
<Yagisan> cbx33: what would like to play ?
<Yagisan> doom/doom2/heretic/hexen/tnt/plutonia ?
<cbx33> doom2
<cbx33> gimme 2 mins
<Yagisan> cbx33: that's ok. just wanted to know what I should host
* Yagisan putting daughter to bed. takes ~15 minutes or so, depending how cranky she gets
<cbx33> Yagisan, just gotta do the washing up
<cbx33> I'll ping you when I'm done
<cbx33> lucasvo, incase you're interested
<cbx33> gisomount has just been updated
<cbx33> and now tells you the volume label when you mount an iso
<cbx33> LP is sllooowww
<jsgotangco> well good night everyone
<jsgotangco> and happy dapper day again
<Yagisan> night jsgotangco
<bddebian> Gnight jsgotangco
<cbx33> Yagisan, I'll be back circa 5 minutes
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> that good for you?
<Yagisan> cbx33: now should be ok for a quick test
<Yagisan> cbx33: in theory the lobby would work and show you what system to connect to. in practice it doesn't
<Yagisan> cbx33: to in the console (press ~ for that) typing connect 60.240.85.239 should connect you
<Yagisan> cbx33: I'll have it up for a few minutes, and if you can't connect, I'll shut it down
<Yagisan> cbx33: loading now.
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I'm trying now
<cbx33> :(
<cbx33> it died
<cbx33> SDLMixer: ERROR: /etc/timidity/timidity.cfg: No such file or directory
<cbx33> **ERROR** Cl_HandlePlayerInfo: console:0 name:YAGISAN
<cbx33> Cl_HandlePlayerInfo: console:1 name:Player
<cbx33> psv_sync: gameTime=86.590
<cbx33> Doomsday 1.9.0-beta4 Server (R6)
<cbx33> Cl_Frame2Received: Unknown delta type 35.
<cbx33> Z_Shutdown: Used 1 volumes, total 33554432 bytes.
<cbx33> ping Yagisan 
<Yagisan> cbx33: crap
<cbx33> is it because I'm still using the older version?
<cbx33> if so I just need a bit of help on how to upgrade
<Yagisan> cbx33: nah, I emailed you beta4, and it's compatible back to 1.8.6
<cbx33> ok
* Yagisan filing bug
<cbx33> sorry i broke it
<cbx33> do you know what the problem is?
<Yagisan> cbx33: you didn't break it, and no I have no idea
<cbx33> ok
<Yagisan> cbx33: hmm. it's not just *NIX either.
<pips1> cbx33 Yagisan hey guys you are shure making me feel nostalgic ;-)
<pips1> good luck with getting your doom session up and running 
<Yagisan> pips1: I'm sure you've never seen doom the way we play it :)
<cbx33> hehe
<pips1> heh
<Yagisan> pips1: the quicker I can get the raven code re-written, the quicker it gets into ubuntu
<pips1> do you have a theme going?
<pips1> let me guess, simpsons?
<Yagisan> pips1: no, I'll get you a screenie
<pips1> great
<Yagisan> pips1: it's an old screenie http://eyagi.bpa.nu/~jamie/uf/ss/doom2-023.jpg
<Yagisan> pips1: but it's gives you the gist of it
<Yagisan> pips1: fps is much higher now in 1.9.0beta4
<cbx33> Yagisan, i still can't get to your host
<Yagisan> cbx33: that is seriously odd
<cbx33> yeup
<cbx33> and now i can
<Yagisan> cbx33: I'm tying from that host
<Yagisan> s/tying/typing
<cbx33> yeh it got there this time
* pips1 hates being stuck with sh***y mirc on win, where you can't even click on a link, never to mention copypasting it
<pips1> aaarg
<cbx33> pips1, y are you on windows at all :)
<Yagisan> penance ?
<cbx33> heheh
<pips1> I haven't come around to getting wmware up and running.... and I need to test website with msie :-(
<cbx33> pips1, install ubuntu and have windows as the vmware :p
<Yagisan> pips1: MSIE (usually) works in wine
<cbx33> vmware is piece of cake to get working
<cbx33> true
<pips1> ah, good to know
<Yagisan> yeah, it's even better when you realise 5.0 keys work for 5.5 :)
<Yagisan> but my amd64 isn't supported for running 64bit guests :(
* Yagisan doesn't like having to reboot his box to test new 64bit kernels
<Yagisan> pips1: like the screenie ?
<cbx33> Yagisan, that sux
<cbx33> I was all geared up to play doom
<pips1> Yagisan nice
<Yagisan> cbx33: that sux is an understatement. It's http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1496666&group_id=74815&atid=542099 if you'd like to help
<Yagisan> cbx33: the network code is all gpl
<cbx33> I'd be lost
<Yagisan> cbx33: AFAIK we have the only client-sever network code in any doom game
<cbx33> wana try it on normal doom
<Yagisan> cbx33: me too, that's why I don't touch it :-[
<cbx33> just to confirm it's not a wad issue
<pips1> gotta go, have fun folks
<Yagisan> cbx33: it's probably not, but sure. I'll host again. doomu.wad
<cbx33> :D
<Yagisan> cbx33: loading now
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> same coomand?
<Yagisan> cbx33: suggest adding -texcomp to your startup line
<Yagisan> cbx33: yes
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> :(
<cbx33> ok so it;s not a wad issue
<cbx33> Yagisan, could it be my firewall?
<Yagisan> cbx33: nope
<cbx33> :(
<Yagisan> mail me the Doomsday.out file
<cbx33> grrRRRAT 
<cbx33> where do i find it?
<Yagisan> the directory you ran doomsday
<cbx33> hey ogra 
<Yagisan> ogra: hey
<Yagisan> ogra: looking for some fun and excitement ? bored of working on productivity applications ? Have I got the job for you
<cbx33> Yagisan, give it up ;)
<ogra> hah, i'm just running around here and update all my systems to dapper :)
<cbx33> ogra, take a break man
<cbx33> you deserve it
<ogra> but i want the new and shiny !
<cbx33> ogra, you can have the new any shiny later
<cbx33> relax man you've earned it
<Yagisan> cbx33: oh well. no gaming tonight them, we'll try again with a new svn
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> ok Yagisan 
* Yagisan headbutts his system
<cbx33> oh dear
<cbx33> ogra, I hope to have your feature implemented by the end of today
* Yagisan gets a chance for the first time in 3 months to play, and it refuses to f*cking work
* Yagisan is not happy
<cbx33> if not early tomorrow....not that you are really needing that quick a responce
<Yagisan> but the good news is dapper seems shiny and nice (thank god the scim icon was reverted, the new one didn't look like a keyboard at all)
<cbx33> heh
<Yagisan> cbx33: my wife could find where to change languages
<Yagisan> one the old icon came back
<Yagisan> s/one/once
<Yagisan> cbx33: if I type this bad, you can imagine how I play
<cbx33> heheh
<Yagisan> ogra: dapper flight ltsp chroots, upgrade or recreate  ?
<ogra> as you like ...
<Yagisan> ogra: no big changes like breezy -> dapper ?
<ogra> both will work, might be that some services wont respect being switched off
<ogra> so you'll have some minor clutter in the chroot if you upgrade, but nothing to worry abput
<lucasvo> ogra: will local apps be supported in edgy?
<ogra> not on my plan, but patches gratefully accepted :)
<lucasvo> ogra: how would you do it?
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<pips1> woah those servers are slooow (including the edubuntu site)
<lucasvo> yes
<lucasvo> I am trying to read the wiki but it's almost impossible
<lucasvo> that sucks
<lucasvo> they should have some mirrors
<pips1> hmm
* pips1 needs to get some food into his belly
<highvoltage> or limit downloads, at least
<pips1> bittorrent 5.6 of 697.8 MB at 9.10 KB/s
<pips1> :(
* pips1 goes to get food
<lucasvo> pips1: I am uploading with 40kbit
<lucasvo> 800mb shared
<highvoltage> i'm copying the entire i386 archive from a usb disk to my home server :)
<lucasvo> not good
<lucasvo> I just did a fresh install
<lucasvo> and ltsp failed
<lucasvo> Target file system doesn't have /sbin/init
<lucasvo> ogra: 
<juliux> hi lucasvo 
<lucasvo> hi juliux!
<juliux> lucasvo, sounds like a nfs error
<lucasvo> juliux: yes
<lucasvo> mount: nfsmount failed: Bad file descriptor
<highvoltage> lucasvo: hmmm... someone had the same problem this morning, and they restarted the server, and it worked
<juliux> lucasvo, add next-server <ip>; to /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
<highvoltage> lucasvo: can you try to restart that server and client, and see if it does the same?
<ogra> juliux, NO !
<juliux> ogra, why not? it works
<ogra> next-server is explicitly disabled in ubuntu
<highvoltage> although, their error was nfsmount failed: Permission denied
<juliux> ogra, sine which date?
<ogra> and it might break in the future
<highvoltage> juliux: since always :)
<juliux> highvoltage, hm but ogra said to me that i have to add it 
<lucasvo> it's an RDP error
<juliux> highvoltage, because my thinclients didnt boot
<lucasvo> I mean RPC
<ogra> juliux, yes, during a period of 2 weeks in dapper
<ogra> before i found the time to disable it
<juliux> ok
* juliux didnt remove it
<lucasvo> mount: RPC: Unable to receive; errno = Connection refused
<ogra> your portmapper doesnt let you connect
<lucasvo> the services weren't running
<lucasvo> don't ask me why
<ogra> well, the nfs server gets started at the end of ltsp-build-client, did it finish properly ? 
<lucasvo> Cleaning up startup links in rcS.d ...
<lucasvo> Cleaning up startup links in init levels: 2 3 4 5 ... * Re-exporting directories for NFS kernel daemon...                                                                                                  [ ok ] 
<lucasvo> Removing `local diversion of /sbin/start-stop-daemon to /sbin/start-stop-daemon.distrib'
<lucasvo> lucasvo@supernova:~/Desktop/mercury/media/docbook/subscription_box$ sudo ltsp-update-ssh-keys
<lucasvo> when I am on the thin client and I set the Display variable correctly, can I run Xclock manually?
<ogra> ltsp-update-sshkeys you mean i hope
<lucasvo> ogra: I corrected it afterwards ;)
<ogra> ok
<ogra> but obviously the nfs server was started 
<lucasvo> mhz: saying backin30min is not useful for people not knowing when you went away :)
<cbx33> hi mhz 
<mhz> lucasvo: hehehe
<lucasvo> rather say backat20_22
<mhz> cbx33: hey there!
<cbx33> good job on the old spam killing :P
<lucasvo> mhz: I don't care but anywa
<cbx33> lucasvo, you tried gisomount yet?
<cbx33> it's been updated again
<cbx33> :D
<mhz> CONGRATULATIONS to the Edubuntu team people and contributors!
<ogra> thanks :)
<mhz> you earned it
<cbx33> ogra are you resting yet?
<ogra> how was your meeting with the journalists ?
<lucasvo> cbx33: just making a pull
<cbx33> :P
<lucasvo> crap I need to reopen the bug
<mhz> lucasvo: i take your point
<mhz> ogra: we had to move it for tuesday :)
<mhz> :(
<ogra> oh
<cbx33> at elast it didn't just get cancelled
<mhz> ogra: I had 'murphy' visitng the Lab :(
* lucasvo hugs everybody and gives lots of chocolate to all the hard working ladies and gentlemen
<cbx33> oooh
<cbx33> thank you lucasvo 
<highvoltage> oooh! chocolate!
<cbx33> hey highvoltage 
<mhz> lucasvo: even edubuntu-girl?
* lucasvo will *really* send *swiss* chocolate once
* highvoltage loves chocolate when it's this cold
<highvoltage> juliux: btw, do you still have that server space for edubuntugirl?
<cbx33> they reckon it'll get up to 23 degrees celcius here tomorrow :D
<juliux> highvoltage, sure
<juliux> highvoltage, your account should work
<mhz> highvoltage: hey mon. I finally could set a 6 clients - 1 server lab.
<highvoltage> juliux: would you mind giving a mysql database for that, and install some extra perl modules?
<cbx33> we had 9 clients off one laptop once :p
<juliux> highvoltage, sure
<highvoltage> juliux: i lost my login details :(
<cbx33> tut tut
<highvoltage> could you /msg it to me please?
<mhz> highvoltage: I ran ooo in all 6, then Gimp, then Firefox with one real heavy url: nesotream.com
<pips1> highvoltage, where is ubuntugirl now?
<juliux> highvoltage, i will reset your password
<cbx33> mhz, nice
<highvoltage> pips1: she's on holiday
<mhz> highvoltage: it was so fun to see how the net died :D
<highvoltage> mhz: great! :)
<mhz> cbx33: it all got stuck after 5 secs of loading that url :D
<pips1> hehe
<lucasvo> hm, is the old bugzilla still online somewhere?
<cbx33> hehe
<lucasvo> a bug has been closed there but it was wrong
<lucasvo> it still exist
<lucasvo> what should I do?
<cbx33> ping LaserJock 
<lucasvo> create a new one in LP?
<pips1> lucasvo, bugzilla.ubuntu.com/
<mhz> so, tomorrow, I'll meet 5 people who will beta-test Dapper while we have a meeting about FET. So, instead of a projector, we'll see OOO impress running on each client :D
<pips1> but use LP instead
<mhz> ogra: I did translate the newsletter today morning (finished today), sorry I had not time to finish it on time :(
<highvoltage> mhz: dapper is way beyound beta testing :)
<mhz> the good thing is spanish pseakers did get it :)
<mhz> highvoltage: heheh, yeah, and I am a python master :D
<lucasvo> ogra: is the ltsp thin client using different Xserver than normal fat clients?
<mhz> highvoltage: no seriously, they gotta see bythemselves
<cbx33> mhz, a python master eh?
* cbx33 will remember that one :p
<mhz> cbx33: lol
<mhz> cbx33: my whole knowledge about python is..    $ python
<mhz> and Ctrl + D
<ogra> lucasvo, nope
<mhz> highvoltage: once they see it, I'll be 'allowed' to invite the journalists
<pips1> mhz, is that the timetabling app you are demonstrating?
<pips1> FET
<mhz> is anyone running sabayon?
<cbx33> no
<mhz> pips1: hmm, nope. Feria de Educacion y Tecnlogia libre
<highvoltage> cbx33: i'm sure someone is
<mhz> FET Libre 2006
<pips1> ic
<cbx33> highvoltage, :p
<highvoltage> :p
<lucasvo> cbx33: there are even edubuntu ltsp related bug reports with sabayon :P
<mhz> highvoltage: ever run sabayon?
<cbx33> lucasvo, I know that
<highvoltage> mhz: very briefly, yes. i've been wanting to look at it deeper for a while
* mhz needs to set an edubuntu lab in a cyber cafe
* lucasvo wants to run local apps
<lucasvo> but I first have to understand how X works
<cbx33> right I'm off
<highvoltage> ogra: according to the drupal logs, we had 341 referers today from distrowatch :)
* mhz wants a date with a sexy intelligent linux geek girl
<highvoltage> mhz: good luck
<lucasvo> highvoltage: cool
<lucasvo> the page design is cool
<highvoltage> it needs lots of work still, but i'm farely pleased with it.
<mhz> highvoltage: i ran sabayon in a 500 mhz celeron + 256 MB of ram... it literally froze :( so I got not beyond a homies wallpaper.
<lucasvo> http://www.ubuntu.com/htdocs/uweb/menu/ubuntu-def.png
<highvoltage> i'll even go as far to suggest that it's nicer than ubuntu.com and kubuntu.org. :)
<lucasvo> that sucks
<highvoltage> yeah, it doesn't look nice
<lucasvo> highvoltage: it is not very accessible :(
<mhz> highvoltage: any chance we could work closer to producing edubuntu light or 'something' with Xfce as default and GNOME as an option?
<lucasvo> mhz: I would be interested as well
<lucasvo> but I don't have much time
<lucasvo> jsgotangco  Thu, 2006  06  01 07:12
<mhz> lucasvo: but it would be, edubuntu ltsp, not LTSP server + edubuntu workstation :D
<lucasvo> one should remove that
<lucasvo> mhz: ?
<mhz> lucasvo: i mean, end-users would install edubuntu-server instead of apt-getting a standard ltsp env.
<lucasvo> mhz: yeah I am fine with this
<mhz> :)
<lucasvo> mhz: but why server?
<lucasvo> one could make it universal
<lucasvo> also for the desktop
<mhz> hmmmm
<lucasvo> just add a meta package edubuntu-light
<highvoltage> mhz: there's a big demand for an edubuntu with xfce. we'll probably talk about that in paris.
<mhz> at least my focus is end-teachers lab managers
<mhz> with older/less powerful machines
<mhz> lucasvo: that can be a choice, indeed. However, at least in latinamerica, we ned to ship edubuntu CDs for lighter servers
<lucasvo> cbx33: gisomount is cool
<mhz> and as I know highvoltage seems to have similar needs,..
<lucasvo> it worked without problems
<lucasvo> cbx33: but I it doesn't display the label
<mhz> highvoltage: please do talk about it
<lucasvo> it says vcdrom`
<pips1> hey highvoltage, I didn't know you wipped up the xubuntu site, you wizkid! :)
* mhz_Food BBL
<mhz_Food> highvoltage: oh, if that is so... nice work on xubuntu.org
<Burgwork> mhz_Food, sabayon has not been profiled. Written in python and I imagine they accept patches
<mhz_Food> Burgwork: hmm, sorry.. could you rephrase? /me had trouble understanding the "has not been profiled"
<lucasvo> highvoltage: you did it?
<pips1>   <meta name="AUTHOR" content="Jonathan Carter" />
<pips1>   <meta name="GENERATOR" content="Vim (Yes RMS, the free one)" />
<highvoltage> pips1: it's just a static html page, they're going to get a nice drupal one too, soon :)
<Burgwork> mhz_Food, optimized for memory and CPU usage
<highvoltage> ah yes, an easter egg. I leave them everywhere :)
<mhz_Food> highvoltage: and a Moin ?
<highvoltage> hey mhz_Food, i thought you were going to try out drupal too :)
<mhz_Food> Burgwork: oh, i get it now. Thx. Now I unserstand why it took so long
<mhz_Food> highvoltage: yeah, I am using it in other sites where there is a php sys adim 24/7
<Burgwork> mhz_Food, no worries. You are doing wel
<highvoltage> mhz_Food: where did you see i did xubuntu.org? or did you also look at page source?
<highvoltage> mhz_Food: yes, we need to talk more about old hardware. many people don't know what old hardware can still do.
<mhz_Food> you don't usually do Ctrl + U ?
<highvoltage> yep, ctrl+u = view page source :)
<mhz_Food> highvoltage: yup, and it is a ver diff world of possibilities
* mhz_Food still suffers highvoltage is not coming to FET :(
<highvoltage> :(
<mhz_Food> we could have had the chance to discuss all this stuff
<highvoltage> mhz_Food: next year :)
<mhz_Food> highvoltage: yeah, if mark does not change dates again and we get sponsorship again from our Gob. :)
<highvoltage> mhz_Food: i'm sure it will go better next time
<mhz_Food> highvoltage: however, my goal is to have smething to show by edgy
<pips1> talking about meetings, will there be a 'edubuntu summit no. 2' ?
<mhz_Food> highvoltage: so I'd appreciate if we could talk about this sooner ;)
<mhz_Food> highvoltage: I can even use the RecicLab wiki for it
<highvoltage> mhz_Food: ok, i understand
<highvoltage> pips1: there's a meeting in paris later this month
<highvoltage> pips1: they announced it on ubuntu-announce
<pips1> I'm aware of the paris dev meeting
<pips1> that's the whole ubuntu/kubuntu/edubuntu/xubuntu big bunch, right?
<highvoltage> yep. a real big bunch that
<pips1> :)
<pips1> a focussed edubuntu would be nice, too
<pips1> edubuntu meeting, i meant
<pips1> with educators...
<highvoltage> yeah. in the end, it's all ubuntu though.
<highvoltage> yes, this gathering will be more technical.
<pips1> what a quote! :)
<highvoltage> would be nice to have a session with educators again.
<pips1> "in the end, it's all ubuntu" (pom pom pom pom ta tatataaaa)
<pips1> :)
* pips1 is thinking the opening scene of Space Odessey...
<highvoltage> hehe. now i know which song you're talking about
<highvoltage> i think it's called Also Spracht Zara Sustra (or something like that)
<pips1> close! :)
* pips1 needs to remember himself
<pips1> Also Sprach Zarathustra
<highvoltage> my father told me from last time we watched that movie. i'm surprised i remember it :)
<pips1> highvoltage, good memory!
<pips1> :)
<highvoltage> i'm good at remembering all kinds of useless stuff. but when i actually want to remember something.. it never works :(
<pips1> can't be that bad
<highvoltage> well, i got 14% for a history test once
<pips1> oops
<pips1> my worst score was in (swiss) geography
<highvoltage> geography was my second worse subject
<pips1> hehe
<highvoltage> luckily i only had to do geography and history until standard 7.
<pips1> now all you do is graphics and stories
<pips1> :)
<pips1> ok, I admit, that was poor wordplay
<highvoltage> yeah, i don't even get it :)
<pips1> did xubuntu keep the ltsp install option in the end?
<pips1> highvoltage, did you have a chance to try that option?
<highvoltage> pips1: yes, i tested it last night, and it failed miserably
<highvoltage> pips1: you couldn't even use the server
<pips1> oops
<highvoltage> pips1: so janimo and i troubleshooted it last night, and found that it installs ltsp-client and ldm on the server, which it shouldn't
<highvoltage> so luckily, they could remove those packages on literally the 11th hour, and fix it
<pips1> dang
<highvoltage> *shew*
<pips1> wow
<highvoltage> so xubuntu's ltsp install option works fine now.
<pips1> well done!
<highvoltage> thanks :)
<highvoltage> i was quite stressed last night. because i put pressure on him to put ltsp in, and it nearly blew up on him
* pips1 believes to see karma flying towards highvoltage
<pips1> once the pressure on the servers eases off a bit, I give xubuntu ltsp a go
<highvoltage> cool :)
<highvoltage> goodnight pips1, ogra, mhz_Food, lucasvo and lurkers
<pips1> highvoltage, good night
<ogra> night highvoltage 
<pips1> and lurkers, hehe
<LaserJock> cya highvoltage 
<pips1> have a happy dapper night
<pips1> ogra, will there be a 'edubuntu summit no. 2' (with educators, rather than a dev only meeting)
<pips1> ?
<ogra> would be nice, but there is nothing planned atm
<pips1> ic
<pips1> yes, would be very nice
<ogra> agreed
<lucasvo> pips1: make in in zurich
<lucasvo> it's a great city :P
<LaserJock> ogra: are you done with dapper? are you going to party?
<ogra> LaserJock, yep, the comfy chair party in my living room
<LaserJock> ogra: great
<LaserJock> I'm scheming -updates and trying to put myself together
<bddebian> ogra: :-)
<pips1> lucasvo, yeah, why not...
<LaserJock> I see a number of Edubuntu specs on LP
<pips1> lucasvo, zurich posse in the house ;-)
<ogra> LaserJock, good :)
<LaserJock> ogra: not so many techinical ones, but I think that will come now that dapper is out the door
<pips1> lucasvo, we should meet up for a drink sometime, what do you say?
<lucasvo> pips1: of course
<lucasvo> pips1: where do you live?
<pips1> lucasvo, near rote fabrik
<lucasvo> pips1: zurich posse in the house - what does that mean?
<lucasvo> pips1: we could go to the wing
<lucasvo> Wings I mean
<lucasvo> Air  lounge
<pips1> lucasvo, you are into hiphop, ey? ;-)
<pips1> sorry, meant *aren't* into hiphop
<lucasvo> well, I listen to brandhaerd, sektion kuchichaestli and several others
<lucasvo> but I also listen to surf music
<pips1> heyheeeey
<pips1> swiss hiphop
<lucasvo> the only thing I don't listen  is techno and hard rock
<ogra> DJ BOBO !
<lucasvo> 7962 is cool
* ogra hides
<lucasvo> lol
<lucasvo> pips1: what do you listen?
* pips1 runs after ogra with a big hammer
* lucasvo slaps ogra with a big smelling fish
<pips1> mostly electronica these days... dub
* pips1 was a big techno head in the early days ~1 year
<bluefrog-10> hi folks, is there a way to install ubuntu directly from ubuntu-desktop cd or do we have to go thru the graphic installer once the livecd is running?
<pips1> before that, it was mostly hiphop
<ogra> bluefrog-10, only the latter
<ogra> use the alternate CD for text installs
<bluefrog-10> ah ok was wondering if it was because of a release candiadte or whatever, thx. ok for alternate
<pips1> lucasvo, 7962 ?
<lucasvo> pips1: a rapper
<lucasvo> I think its rather 78629 or somethin
<HedgeMage> Hi, all!
<lucasvo> pips1: you know the Wings?
<pips1> any albums out, or underground ?
<lucasvo> the have *free* wifi
<pips1> nope
<pips1> where is it?
<lucasvo> pips1: http://www.aightgenossen.ch/index.php/m=archive/id=332
<lucasvo> it's 7962
<pygi> hey HedgeMage 
<HedgeMage> hey pygi 
<pygi> happy cookbook release :)
<lucasvo> pips1: next to the Zunft zum Safran
<HedgeMage> You, too :)
<HedgeMage> pygi: too bad you're half a world away, the party here starts in about 5.5 hours
<pygi> HedgeMage, we'll see ... someday perhaps ...
<HedgeMage> :)
<pygi> HedgeMage, perhaps when we publish the book :)
* pygi thinks of authors signing books :)
<HedgeMage> hehe :)
<HedgeMage> cool
<pygi> so, how are you? :)
<HedgeMage> pretty good, getting ready to decorate the Edubuntu cake for the party
<LaserJock> HedgeMage!
<pygi> HedgeMage, nice :)
<pips1> lucasvo, wings lounge looks very stylish, we can meet there...
<HedgeMage> :D
<HedgeMage> hi LaserJock :D
<pygi> HedgeMage, send piece :)
<ogra> HedgeMage, dont forget to take a pic
<ogra> HedgeMage, happy dapper day btw
<pygi> ogra, how you like this?
<pygi> http://img145.imageshack.us/my.php?image=logo33tp.png
<HedgeMage> ogra: I will, but it'll take time for me to get it posted because I don't have a digital camera... have to wait and develop film
<ogra> pygi, nice, whats that for ? 
<Burgwork> pygi, what the logo for?
<Burgwork> og :P
<pygi> Burgwork, ogra, that's just one of possible logo's, we have many :)
<lucasvo> pygi: it's cool
<pygi> ogra, Burgwork, for BanyanTree project :)
<HedgeMage> pygi: the postage would be more than the price of the whole cake!
<lucasvo> pygi: but I would combine them somehow
<Burgwork> pygi, and what does the Bayantree project do?
<lucasvo> the left one has too much shine and left one is missing it
<HedgeMage> question, would anyone be interested in me posting the Scribus file for the Edubuntu stickers I made for the party on my website for public consumption?
<Burgwork> HedgeMage, sure, that sounds good
* ogra wonders why we still have EdubuntuInstallNotes in the topic ...
<Burgwork> HedgeMage, can you put them on DIYMarketing
<pygi> Burgwork, for making people familiar with Open Source, and getting them to contribute
<Burgwork> cool
<HedgeMage> Burgwork: will do
<pygi> mentor <--> student kind of thing :)
<pygi> Burgwork, wanna see other logos? :)
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra] : Order: http://shipit.edubuntu.org || Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu || Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org |Website http://www.edubuntu.org | MEETING: every Wednesday see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda | Read before installing: http://www.edubuntu.org/gettingstarted | HAPPY DAPPER DAY !
<ogra> :)
<pygi> o joy :)
<Burgwork> HedgeMage, thanks
<lucasvo> ogra: let's make it a week!
<Burgwork> pygi, sure, but I like the one without the reflection
<Burgwork> pygi, remember, logos should be very very simple
<lucasvo> pips1: atm it's not a good time to meet, maybe next week?
<pygi> Burgwork, indeed :)
<pygi> Burgwork, here's one for BZR-UI one of the students is doing: http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/453/oliveicon5gd.png
<ogra> lucasvo, i've put the "HAPPY DAPPER DAY" in there when we released, that wasnt the change ;)
<lucasvo> pygi: I would make the text shiny
<pygi> lemme upload some other logos for banyantree
<Burgwork> pygi, that is cool
<crimsun> Burgwork: debdiff was uploaded to security-review [https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/security-review/2006-June/000406.html]  awaiting pitti's approval. If you'd like I can generate a deb for you. This newer package upgrades your current borked failed install.
<lucasvo> anybody know adobe illustrator?
<Burgwork> crimsun, no worries. I don't use moodle, just wanted  to show that article up. Thanks again for all your great work ")
<pygi> Burgwork, some more BanyanTree logos
<pygi> http://img307.imageshack.us/my.php?image=logo1fy.png
<Burgwork> :), rthare
<pips1> lucasvo, next week is fine
<Burgwork> pygi, nope, like the tree better
<HedgeMage> lucasvo: kind of... I haven't used it in years
<HedgeMage> lucasvo: its a PITA
<pips1> lucasvo, goto go now, talk to you again soon, same channel ;-)
<lucasvo> pips1: ok
<pygi> Burgwork, ah, oki :)
<lucasvo> pips1: good bye
<pips1> bye all! have a good one!
<Burgwork> pygi, I would make it look more like a banyan tree ,however
<pips1> happy celebrating
<ogra> ciao pips1 
<lucasvo> HedgeMage: you don't know how to make the endings of a path rounded, do you?
<Burgwork> pygi, maybe only one trunk?
<pips1> ciao ogra 
<pygi> Burgwork, hm, what do you mean?
<pygi> but yes, it should look more like BanyanTree
<Burgwork> pygi, the tree looks loopsided
<LaserJock> edubuntu is #60 on distrowatch \o/
<HedgeMage> pygi: BTW, we may have my mom as a proofreader for the Edgy edition of cookbook :)
<HedgeMage> whoohoo :)
<HedgeMage> I wonder if we could break 50 by Edgy...
<ogra> LaserJock, heh, you should mention which timeframe you refer to :)
<pygi> HedgeMage, hehe, I think publisher proofreads that :)
<LaserJock> ogra: 6 months
<HedgeMage> pygi: yeah, but it never hurts to look like less of a dork when you send it in :P
<ogra> wow
<HedgeMage> speaking of which, do we have a publisher yet?
<ogra> thats high
<pygi> HedgeMage, we'll have it once we get chapters layout
<HedgeMage> pygi: awesome.
<LaserJock> #37 in the last week
<HedgeMage> pygi: who do we think we're going with?
<pygi> HedgeMage, I still need to think a bit
<pygi> we'll see
* HedgeMage nods
<HedgeMage> keep me in the loop, I'm always curious :)
<LaserJock> I don't mean to nag, but have you guys talked to the doc team at all about the cookbook?
<pygi> HedgeMage, ofcourse :)
<pygi> LaserJock, not really :P
<pygi> I am in doc team if that helps any :)
<LaserJock> pygi: the Ubuntu doc team?
<pygi> LaserJock, not really, but edu one is enough :)
<LaserJock> not if you want to use the svn repo
<pygi> Don't need the svn repo
<LaserJock> I think you guys should really consider talking to the docteam at least for ideas and review
* HedgeMage nods
<HedgeMage> it certainly wouldn't hurt
* HedgeMage has no idea who that would be, however.
<LaserJock> the cookbook is really a cool idea, but it seems like it has a lot of work to do
<pygi> LaserJock, ideas for edgy right, review of this book, right
<pygi> LaserJock, indeed, but don't worry :)
<LaserJock> the doc team also publishes print copies on lulu.com now
<LaserJock> there are docbook tools
<LaserJock> etc.
<pygi> LaserJock, yes, we'll do same with this version probably
<pygi> hey mhz 
<mhz> hey
<pygi> what's up? :)
<LaserJock> I'm just saying that they might be helpful for you
<pygi> LaserJock, yup, I know :)
<pygi> Don't worry, all in it's time :)
<LaserJock> well, sometimes you need to plan ahead, it is going to be a giant PITA to convert to docbook
<pygi> LaserJock, indeed, thanks for your concern :)
<LaserJock> pygi: np :-)
<LaserJock> pygi: just wanted to put the offer out there
<HedgeMage> yeah, I definitely don't want to be constructing this on the wiki again if we can help it... if we have to do something web based, we could bug highvoltage about enabling drupal's book module on the web site
<HedgeMage> brb, phone call
<pygi> HedgeMage, no worries, it won't be wiki :)
<pygi> Burgwork, may I join doc team pls? :)
<LaserJock> pygi: you should hang out in #ubuntu-doc a bit, they give me good ideas all the time :-)
* pygi hangs around in #ubuntu-doc
<Burgwork> pygi, are you on the wiki team?
<pygi> Burgwork, nop, currently only edu-doc
<Burgwork> pygi, can you ask to join the wiki team. you have been working on the cookbook, no?
<mhz> ogra: I need to know if this is considered a bug or plain stupidity, could you give me your opinion, please? Installed my OS in spanish (just to try out). When I want to use 'cfdisk' it obviously shows up with spanish menu options. It works just fine BUT when trying to 'write changes', it asks me to type 'si' with a spanish accent/character in it. Of course, I tried with spanish keyboard, copying/pasting, etc... no way cfdisk will accept that character. It ju
<mhz> st does notlet me reproduce that character :(
<Burgwork> HedgeMage, are you on the wiki team?
<pygi> Burgwork, right, but can I join doc team also? :)
* pygi wonders what exactly wiki team is responsible for
<LaserJock> looking after the wiki
<Burgwork> pygi, joining the doc team requires sustained contribution to docs in the svn repo
<pygi> Burgwork, ah, nothing then :)
<Burgwork> yep
<LaserJock> I'm sure we need more people working on the Edubuntu docs in the doc team repo though :-)
<Burgwork> if we move the edubuntu docs into the repo, then we can fast track anybody has been working on the cookbook
<Burgwork> much like we did the xubuntu guys
<pygi> oki :)
<ogra> erm, didnt jsgotangco already create a cookbook docbook repo in breezy in the ubuntu doc svn ? 
<pygi> ogra, he did I think
<Burgwork> he did a while back
<Burgwork> no idea what happened
<LaserJock> I think there is some confusion (at least on my part) because there are 2 cookbooks floating around on the wiki
<ogra> he qriginally maintained the cookbook unhtil he got a new job that didnt leave him the time
<pygi> LaserJock, what 2 cookbooks?
<pygi> wiki.ubuntu.com/HowToCookEdubuntu/Chapters
<LaserJock> EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuCookbook
* HedgeMage peeks back in
<LaserJock> there is quite a bit of material on both
<HedgeMage> Burgwork: only launchpad team I'm on is the cookbook one, I think
<pygi> HedgeMage, indeed :)
<Burgwork> HedgeMage, can you apply to the wiki team as well?
<HedgeMage> Burgwork: will do, one sec
<Burgwork> anybody else that currently works on the wiki and can show sustained and useful contribution, please apply to the wiki team
<LaserJock> Burgwork: boy, you killed the party :-)
<pygi> LaserJock, hehe :)
<HedgeMage> Burgwork: done
* LaserJock does a "Dapper rocks" dance around the lab, while still being careful to not run into the laser
<HedgeMage> hehe
<LaserJock> my boss would be very unhappy and I don't think "But dapper is out today" would be an efficent excuse ;-)
<HedgeMage> roflmao
<LaserJock> luckly I don't break the expensive optics too often
<mhz> ogra: so.. bug or stupidity?
<HedgeMage> :)
<LaserJock> hmm, I didn't know si had an accent
<mhz> LaserJock: yeah, it does, but only when it means 'itself' or it is an afirmative thing (special case)
<mhz> or else it may be read as 'if'
<ogra> mhz, i'd call it a bug
* mhz loves-hates spanish grammar
* LaserJock runs away as he is reminded of grammar class
<mhz> ogra: thx, then I'll contact the keeper
<ogra> but i doubt its a bug in cfdisk
<mhz> ogra: oooh. then, how could I report it, solve it?
<ogra> no idea
<mhz> lol
<ogra> but can you type that char in a terminal in general ? 
<mhz> yup, no problem, unless it is a 'confirmation' of an order
<ogra> and which terminal is that ? console, gnome-terminal, xfterm, xterm ....
<Burgwork> LaserJock, me and my bad cop routine tends to do that :0
<mhz> gnome-terminal and xfce-terminal
<Burgwork> HedgeMage, done
<LaserJock> aterm, temr ..
<LaserJock> wterm I mean
<HedgeMage> Burgwork: spiffy, thanks
<spacey> pygi: where will the cookbook end up?
<spacey> documentation wiki?
<spacey> the new fancy one
<mhz> ogra: and I'd be 90% sure also in xterm
<mhz> ogra: and tty's
<pygi> spacey: currently it's on: wiki.ubuntu.com/HowToCookEdubuntu/Chapters
<mhz> yeah, 100% sure
<pygi> not sure what'll be with publisher, but I hope to be able to arrange so we could also make a web edition, and include in edgy
* HedgeMage nods
<ogra> spacey, at least all the old pages from elkner and kjcole we just talked about are tagged for moving
<HedgeMage> definitely
* mhz now is 100% convinced it is way better to use english OS env.
<HedgeMage> that's a big part of why I wondered what publisher we're going with
<ogra> mhz, i use german and have never any probs ... its surely a bug that should be fixed instead of switching to en :)
<pygi> HedgeMage, no worries :)
<pygi> We'll have a meeting in like a week or two
* HedgeMage nods
<HedgeMage> cool
<LaserJock> both cookbooks are taged to move to the new wiki
<HedgeMage> brb (again) I need to find something to wear over my swimsuit to protect it while I frost the cake :)
<pygi> ogra, do you have any intentions on including HUB in Edubuntu?
<pygi> LaserJock, indeed they are
<mhz> ogra: hmm, yeah, I have started to use spanish because I never had lang. probs before and so, many spanish speakers users complained in my demos :)  If it were my decission, all confirmation orders should be like "100" or "000" thing
<ogra> pygi, home user backup ? 
<pygi> mdke told it would be better that way
<pygi> ogra, yup :)
<ogra> if its ready for main, why not
<pygi> It's not ready yet, but it'll be for Edgy
<ogra> but that will likely still take some time 
<pygi> ogra, o trust me, we have great plans for it :)
<ogra> yes, but plans are not enough
<pygi> indeed :)
<pygi> we'll see what happens ;)
<ogra> i mean even if you have plans to become a billionaire next week you probably wont
<LaserJock> lol
<LaserJock> why not ogra?
<pygi> ogra, small steps, small steps :)
<ogra> i said "probably"
<ogra> :)
<LaserJock> oh, I have not doubt
<LaserJock> s/not/no/
<pygi> Burgwork, you still around? :)
<Burgwork> pygi, I am always around :)
<pygi> Burgwork, why don't you answer on jabber thingy? :P
<Burgwork> pygi, because it is a on another virtual desktop and I have no sound here
<pygi> Burgwork, ah,oki :)
<Burgwork> pygi, oh, I am sorry. I just connected that you are Mario Danic
<pygi> Burgwork, o joy :)
<pygi> And we talked so many times :P
<Burgwork> sometimes it is hard
<pygi> don't worry, all good :)
* pygi points Burgwork at another virtual desktop :)
<LaserJock> I stopped using virtual destkops when I left Gentoo, I don't know why :/
<mhz> sorry but what is home user backup?
<LaserJock> it's a gui backup app
<mhz> what is its name?
<mhz> that?
<pygi> mhz, name will  change
<pygi> that's working title :)
<ogra> hubackup
<ogra> thats the package name, i doubt it will change 
<pygi> ogra, perhaps package name won't change, but the name of application itself probably will :)
* mhz searches about it
* mhz used to use 'felxbackup' for all kinds of backing up
<pygi> mhz, not much info exist yet
<pygi> hey Amaranth_ :)
<Amaranth_> hey
<pygi> what's up? :)
<Amaranth> my grandfather died last night
<ogra> gah
<pygi> :'(
* pygi is sorry for asking :-/
<mhz> pygi: I just noticed :)
<Amaranth> ogra: I still haven't gotten a response from the willow author about the license issues.
<Burgwork> Amaranth, ugh
<mhz> fork!
<mhz> :D
<Amaranth> ogra: Since the code is pretty...odd anyway, I was thinking it'd be better to just make my own.
<pygi> mhz, wiki.ubuntu.com/HomeUserBackupNg
<Amaranth> ogra: I've already found a python module that does bayesian filtering.
<mhz> pygi: thx
<ogra> Amaranth, sounds ok, if you think you'll manage
<ogra> cool
<Amaranth> yeah
* ogra didnt know taht exists
<Amaranth> it's called reverend
<Amaranth> i figure i'll find a sane python proxy and hook this into it
<ogra> yep, sounds like a plan, we should meet up next week and talk it through a bit more (have some kind of "official" SoC meeting) ;)
<Amaranth> ok
<mhz> pygi: so far, flexbackup does esxactly that but not GUI
<Burgwork> ogra, let me hook in anselmo into that as well
<ogra> Burgwork, anselmo ? 
<Burgwork> ogra, he is doing the childrensbrowser
<ogra> gecko based ? 
<Burgwork> epiphany based
<Burgwork> built on Amaranth's proxy and Epiphany
<ogra> well, thats a yes currently then :)
<Burgwork> his official mentor is dholbach
<ogra> ah, ok
<ogra> if that think doesnt get to big we should include it ... even it wasnt tagged as edubuntu specific iirc
<ogra> *thing
<Burgwork> it should just be a small python app with deps on epiphany and willowNG
<ogra> ah, nice
<bddebian> Later folks, Congrats again! :-)
<Burgwork> it is more a control panel than an app, really
<ogra> bddebian, ciao and thanks :)
<ogra> Burgwork, oh, i thought he'd simplify the browser as well
<Burgwork> yep, through lockdown keys in epiphany
<pygi> mhz, geg
<ogra> ah
<pygi> heh*
<Burgwork> the reason I choose epiphany over Ff for the spec was that epiphany already contains great lockdown keys already
<Burgwork> plus if  he needs to make changes to epiphany, it will be easier
<ogra> yep
<ogra> ff is satan
<ogra> i wouldnt touch it
<HedgeMage> rofl
<Burgwork> are you not touching it for this kiosk idea of yours?
<ogra> that wont need touching of ff
<Burgwork> ah
<crimsun> hmm, speaking of epiphany, is xulrunner going to be the "engine"?
<ogra> hopefully
<Burgwork> hopefully
<ogra> else we cant drop ff from edubuntu
* LaserJock can't believe he has been using satan all this time ;-)
* Burgwork is done using satan
<ogra> lol
<LaserJock> if I could get epiphany to work on XP/OS X, the other satan's, then I might have a chance
<cbx33> evenin
<Burgwork> Firefox is a great browser for Windows
<Burgwork> because on windows, integration doesn't matter
<cbx33> ogra, you still here ? - get some sleep :p
<LaserJock> Burgwork: sure, but I want to actually use epiphany
<Burgwork> LaserJock, ah, then you are stuck if you run inferior OSes
<cbx33> ping pygi 
<Amaranth> it's so...empty not seeing new updates every 3 hours
<pygi> cbx33, what I broke this time?
<Amaranth> dang final releases :P
<cbx33> pygi, I was going to offer to do what I could to help with S-C-P
<pygi> cbx33, o really? :)
<pygi> Nice, thanks :)
<cbx33> ;P
<pygi> cbx33, pheew, I already thought I broke something again :)
<HedgeMage> roflmao
<cbx33> nah
<cbx33> nn everyone
<HedgeMage> nn cbx33 
<cbx33> pygi, if youwanna check out my python skills sofar
<cbx33> my gisomount program is growing :p
<pygi> cbx33, :)
<cbx33> https://launchpad.net/products/gisomount
<cbx33> still in development
<cbx33> will be doing some major overhauling tomorrow
<pygi> nice :)
<cbx33> well nn
<cbx33> let me know if you think I can help
<pygi> night cbx33 :)
<pygi> HedgeMage, what are you laughing about? :)
<HedgeMage> "I already thought I broke something again"
<HedgeMage> :P
<pygi> HedgeMage, hehe :)
<pygi> HedgeMage, so will I get a slice of cake? :)
<HedgeMage> pygi: it would cost more to ship than to make a whole cake :P
<HedgeMage> you must show up to get cake :P
<HedgeMage> you can have a pic of the cake ;)
<pygi> argh :(
<HedgeMage> it wouldn't taste any good after the 3 weeks it would take to get there anyhow :P
<mhz> pygi: geg?
<pygi> mhz, was supposed to be "heh" :)
<mhz> oh, sorry ;)
#edubuntu 2006-06-02
<HedgeMage> philosophical question of the day: why is frosting stiffer than icing when ice is harder than frost?
* HedgeMage contemplates that while thinning some frosting to make icing
<LaserJock> dang it HedgeMage, you just ruined my day ;-)
<HedgeMage> lol
* HedgeMage guards the cake from mhz_Food 
<mhz_Food> lol
<mhz_Food> yummie, frosted cake!
* mhz_Food BBL
<HedgeMage> hehe
<pygi> hey jsgotangco :)
<jsgotangco> good morning
<LaserJock> boy, we just get "good morning"? :p
<Burgwork> should I be pointing people at the -users mailing list now?
<pygi> Burgwork, most probably yes
<Burgwork> pygi, meh, I answered the guy
<pygi> Burgwork, and said what? :P
<Burgwork> we can help you
<pygi> ah,oki :)
<pygi> Mike Thiem you are probably talkin' about :)
<Burgwork> yep, the one and only
<pygi> :)
* jsgotangco starts to eat a meat bun
<jsgotangco> so what's new guys, its a beautiful friday here
<Burgwork> hmm, cloudy, cold and rainy here
<jsgotangco> ick
* jsgotangco removes victoria in his places to consider list
<pygi> jsgotangco, it's 1:20am :)
* HedgeMage looks at the drizzling outside and hopes it subsides before the pool party
<jsgotangco> hmm
<pygi> I go now
<LaserJock> hmm, I don't know what the weather is outside here, I've been in the lab all day (in the basement)
<pygi> enjoy people
<HedgeMage> if all else fails, we can hang out here at the apartment
* jsgotangco thinks of an edubuntu derivative for not so young kids that includes pornview, dopewars and the warty naked wallpapers in the default install
* HedgeMage chuckles
<Burgwork> jsgotangco, you sick sick man
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: Unibuntu?
<jsgotangco> it should have a frat scheduler as well
<LaserJock> well at least something that can chill a keg ;-)
<HedgeMage> and motion-activated webcam so you can find out who you slept with last night? :P
<jsgotangco> yeah instead of tea timer, we'll bundle it with a USB chiller
<LaserJock> HedgeMage: and automatically sync it to your blog? ;-)
<jsgotangco> should be MySpace nothing more
<HedgeMage> lol
<jsgotangco> heh this should be the ultimate reason to resurrect the American Pie franchise
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: yeah, but you'll need facial recognition for that
<jsgotangco> should have logjam and drivel as well heh
<LaserJock> gosh, somehow i missed out on this stuff in the last 8 years I've been in college
<HedgeMage> lol
<jsgotangco> we won't forget the women because we're bundling cycle and purity-off
<jsgotangco> best of all, its going to be powered by libsexy
<crimsun> worstsonamesevar
<Burgwork> does liboil come in there too?
<crimsun> if it's got gst, probably
<LaserJock> jeeze and this this the Edubuntu channel ;-)
<HedgeMage> rofl
<jsgotangco> yes!
<LaserJock> I'm not sure what kind of "education" edgy will have but ...
<Burgwork> LaserJock, for some, it will be very educational!
<HedgeMage> rofl
<jsgotangco> and as tribute to JaneW i will try to make a port of Bliss
<Burgwork> bliss?
<jsgotangco> check out her blog heh
<HedgeMage> jsgotangco: hehe :)
<Burgwork> ok, that looks like too much fun
<jsgotangco> heh
* jsgotangco prepares for the long day at work
<Burgwork> jsgotangco, your version better support same sex couples and parties
<jsgotangco> yes it might upset some groups in canada im aware of that
* jsgotangco hides
<Burgwork> :)
<Burgwork> jsgotangco, check the comments, the guy who made bliss commented on her blog
<jsgotangco> eh?
* jsgotangco checks
<jsgotangco> oohhhhh
<Burgwork> jsgotangco, given it written on top of .net, you might be able to do a gtk port, if you can convince him to open source the game
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<jsgotangco> hmmm the osnews girl just filed a bug in xorg
<Burgwork> jsgotangco, eugenia?
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> having issues with savage
<Burgwork> in LP or bugzilla.x.org?
<crimsun> hmm, fabbione vs. eugenia. This should be interesting. :-)
<jsgotangco> LP
<Burgwork> I am betting on fabbione
<jsgotangco> bug 47948
<Burgwork> any takers?
* jsgotangco will not touch this bug
<Burgwork> how about eugenia vs. infinity?
<crimsun> infinity is fierce, but fabbione is harsh
<Burgwork> http://comment.zdnet.co.uk/0,39020505,39271087,00.htm <-- I wonder how we can capitilize on this
<Burgwork> bitter might be a better term for fabbione
<bddebian> Heya
<Burgundavia> bddebian: you want to do some python development for edgy and edubuntu?
<bddebian> Burgundavia: I don't know that I can
<Burgundavia> ah
<bddebian> I'm kinda st00pid
<Burgundavia> hmm
* Burgundavia disagrees
<bddebian> :-)
<bddebian> Burgundavia: What are you wanting to do?
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: what do you have in mind?
<jsgotangco> port Bliss
<LaserJock> doh
<Burgundavia> nope
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: is that also for Unibuntu?
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco: for Edubuntu, not Pornbuntu
<bddebian> hehe
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2006-June/001489.html <-- do this in pessulus
<jsgotangco> are you looking into locked down profiles
<jsgotangco> because we're locking up vuntz for that in paris as well
<Burgundavia> indeed
<Burgundavia> sadly, I cannot help you with this, only cheer on the sidelines, due to my job
<jsgotangco> if its also possible to integrate it with sabayon or what
<Burgundavia> yep
<LaserJock> I'm interested in locked down profiles but I doubt I have time/skills to do it
<Burgundavia> if you make pessulus do it, sabayon will get it
<jsgotangco> we actually brain dumped on this last night
<jsgotangco> just random ideas
<Burgundavia> it is not that hard
<LaserJock> cool, got a spec?
<Burgundavia> the simplest and most fool proof way is to delete the entire home dir and recreate it
<jsgotangco> no spec yet
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> meh i love the ubuntu-art list
<Burgundavia> the latest one
<Burgundavia> ?
<jsgotangco> yeah
<LaserJock> what the heck?
<LaserJock> 6.06.1?
<LaserJock> and what is gfxboot?
<Burgundavia> the bit that loads when you pop the live or install cds in
<LaserJock> oh
<Burgundavia> ported for Suse I believe, so ithas some blue issues
<LaserJock> you'd think I'd never used Ubuntu before
<bddebian> hehe
<Burgundavia> I only know because I raised some usability issues with it early in the cycle
<LaserJock> gosh, this Viper550 guy is a hoot
<LaserJock> "Great job everyone, even though I don't use Ubuntu, your 
<jsgotangco> heh
<LaserJock> artwork still looks good on my FC5 system!"
<bddebian> heh
<jsgotangco> its called ego tripping
<LaserJock> I hope I never do that
<LaserJock> please slap me if I do
* bddebian slaps LaserJock just for preventative measures.. ;-P
<LaserJock> thanks bddebian, I needed that
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco: it is cool that vuntz is going to be there. It would nice if we had a "Mark Summer of Code" for things like this
<jsgotangco> it is timely
* jsgotangco remembers he has to review specs for SoC
<Burgundavia> Amaranth: you around?
<Amaranth> Burgundavia: yep
<Burgundavia> Amaranth: when are you planning to meet ogra and chat about SoC again?
<Amaranth> Burgundavia: i don't think we set a time
<Burgundavia> ok
<mhz> jsgotangco: newsletter was translated and sent
<jsgotangco> mhz: thanks!
<mhz> jsgotangco: however, I could only sent it today :(
<jsgotangco> no worries
<mhz> jsgotangco: it would be ideal if next time, considering we'll work together, we 'release'  it same time, same date (already translated)
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> next week ;)
<mhz> oh, damn, yes
<mhz> next week
<mhz> jsgotangco: any ideas/structure you might wanna suggest?
<jsgotangco> mhz: i will think it over this weekend
<mhz> jsgotangco: will it be possible to include a section "A coffee with Edubuntu" ?
<jsgotangco> what would that be about?
<mhz> I usually write many stuff while I have coffees :)
<mhz> for the newsletter I could focus on Edubuntu things
<mhz> of course :)
<jsgotangco> ill try to come up with a wiki page tonight
<jsgotangco> so that anyone can contribute
<mhz> oh, okis 
<jsgotangco> we'll just have to massage the data
<jsgotangco> i think its the best course of action
<mhz> wide open indeed
<mhz> jsgotangco: do you have rights on the wiki to create NewsletterGroup
<mhz> ?
<mhz> in other words, can you use ACL?
<LaserJock> is that needed?
<jsgotangco> i dont see the need for ACL?
<jsgotangco> i mean if we have a newsletter out, we put it in drupal?
<jsgotangco> the wiki becomes dumping area
<jsgotangco> ?
<LaserJock> I think EdubuntuNewsletterDraft or something would suffice
<jsgotangco> yeah
<mhz> ooh, i see
<DaSkreec1> Hello
<LaserJock> hi DaSkreec1 
<DaSkreec1> LaserJock: Hello
<DaSkreec1> Hows the Dapper day?
<LaserJock> great!
<DaSkreec1> :-)
<DaSkreec1> Does https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuLTSPUpgradeNotes apply to all upgrades?
<DaSkreec1> Since Edubuntu installs LTSP by default?
<LaserJock> DaSkreec1: it would apply to any LTSP setup I would think
<DaSkreec1> Right so that would apply to all installations of Edubuntu
<LaserJock> well it is for upgrading the LTSP
<LaserJock> not the whole system
<DaSkreec1> Well won't upgrading the system upgrade LTSP?
<LaserJock> it won't update the client chroot
<LaserJock> so you would upgrade your system and then upgrade/recreate the client chroot for LTSP
<DaSkreec1> Ah so for a standalone system on a  network I can just upgrade?
<LaserJock> sure
<DaSkreec1> Great :-)
<highvoltage> 23:25 < crimsun> hmm, speaking of epiphany, is xulrunner going to be the "engine"?
<highvoltage> 23:25 < ogra> hopefully
<highvoltage> 23:25 < Burgwork> hopefully
<highvoltage> xulrunner for epiphany? how did you guys get to that!?
<DaSkreec1> xulrunner is non beta now?
<highvoltage> epiphany will remain GTK based, as far as I'm aware.
<highvoltage> DaSkreec1: it's still way before release, afaik
<DaSkreec1> Thats what I though
<highvoltage> epiphany uses gecko, the rendering engine of ff, but i think using xulrunner will require a re-write of epiphany
<DaSkreec1> Good night
<jsgotangco> i doubt its going to happen soon
<jsgotangco> despite the beauty of the current epiphany
<HedgeMage> The party was a success!
<HedgeMage> I got pictures of the cake, but not of the party itself (too wet to be safe for my camera)
<LaserJock> hehe
<LaserJock> I tried epiphany a bit today but wasn't very impressed
<LaserJock> maybe I'm missing something
<crimsun> it's not for everyone. I tried and junked it about a dozen times over the years, but the gnome integration is omgponies.
<Burgundavia> it took me a few times to really love it
<HedgeMage> the gnome integration doesn't sell me since I only use gnome when testing edubuntu stuff so it'll look like the default... I'm really kind of anti-gnome at heart.
<LaserJock> crimsun: I don't understand what you mean by gnome integration
<LaserJock> I'm trying opera right now
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: epiphany doesn't really get to you on the first try
<jsgotangco> it just grows on you
<LaserJock> like a fungus?
<jsgotangco> sort of heh
<HedgeMage> lol
<Laser_opera> nice
<Laser_opera> opera even has an IRC client
<Burgundavia> Laser_opera: that is part of the problem of opera
* HedgeMage hugs irssi
<LaserJock> irssi would be great if it didn't hurt my eyes so bad
<LaserJock> I haven't found a theme yet that doesn't kill my eyes
* bimberi wonders what a Laser_opera would be like
<LaserJock> bimberi: come to my lab and I'll show you :-)
<bimberi> lol
<LaserJock> I usually run 3-4 different wavelengths at 10Hz
<LaserJock> kinda like a colored strobe light
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<highvoltage> LaserJock: the default theme is quite nice, i think :)
<LaserJock> hmm, maybe my eyes are just bad
<bimberi> actually come to think of it, i did go to something kinda like it when i did visit the states.  The planetarium at Denver did a laser light show to with the Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon", in its entirety, as the soundtrack
<bimberi> s/to with/with/
<LaserJock> yikes
<LaserJock> we usually do Credence Clearwater Revival in our lab
<LaserJock> or techno
<bimberi> it was fantastic.  Although there was lots of people smoking funny cigarettes in the toilets before the show :)
<LaserJock> anyway, bed time for me
* bimberi glares at the modem
<networkr> hi
<networkr> anyone in edubuntu chat?
<highvoltage> erm... well, it helps giving us some time to respond?
<Burgundavia> highvoltage: nope, I guess not
<crimsun> they expect ponies. No ponies, no stay.
<highvoltage> crimsun: we discussed this yesterday, we can put the pony theme in some repository especially for you :)
<highvoltage> s/pony/pink pony
<crimsun> hooray
* jsgotangco wonders when would the ubuntu-art speeches end
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco: when they get bored
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: there will just be more people to take over from that. it's like terrorism.
<Burgundavia> uhh?
<jsgotangco> i still like the "good job everyone...even though i use FC5...did anyone like my theme" email
<Burgundavia> yep
<cbx33> wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
<cbx33> mornin all
<jsgotangco> hi
<cbx33> on the standard mailing list, is there an option to moderate who joins?
<cbx33> I want to create a list, but I only want certain people to be members
<lucasvo> cbx33: there are managed lists
<cbx33> lucasvo, can they be done using mailman?
<Elwell> cbx33, yep they can
<cbx33> without any special configuration
<lucasvo> cbx33: you can also use www.vincisolutions.ch/products/mercury
<lucasvo> :)
<Elwell> and you can also have 2 lists - one with members, one with allowed list of posters to list 1
<cbx33> w00t I found it
<lucasvo> Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 67108864 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 12064993 bytes) in /usr/share/webmail.wservices.ch/roundcubemail/program/lib/Mail/mimeDecode.php on line 321
<lucasvo> oh
<cbx33> oh dear
<cbx33> I need some mailman help again
<cbx33> I have 3 addresses subscribed to the list
<cbx33> one is on the same hostname as the list itself
<cbx33> the other two aren't
<cbx33> all can send email to the list and it appears in the archives
<cbx33> however, only the one with the address that is on the host name receives mail from the list
<cbx33> the other two addresses will receive welcome to the list emails, and when they weren't subscribed received the your post requires moderation mail
<cbx33> any ideas
<cbx33> is it this box
<cbx33> Host name this list prefers for email.
<cbx33> (Details for host_name)
<cbx33> I'm wondering
<pygi> cbx33, poke :)
<cbx33> hey pygi 
<pygi> cbx33, I need something from you, oki?
<cbx33> i can try
<pygi> https://launchpad.net/people/student-panel
<cbx33> join it?
<pygi> yup, if you want :)
<cbx33> done
<pygi> cbx33, welcome :)
<cbx33> :D
<cbx33> do we have an emblem ?
<cbx33> :p
<pygi> cbx33, not yet...I think s-c-p has an icon, se we'll see :)
<pygi> cbx33, we'll have a meeting somewhere next week
<cbx33> ok
<highvoltage> *gulp* 597 hits from distrowatch the past 24h
<highvoltage> xubuntu is even #10 in distrowatch! wow.
<highvoltage> (for last 7 days)
<pips1> xubuntu: quite a newcomer. cool
<highvoltage> edubuntu is #32 for last 7 days
<pips1> I'm downloading it to test that ltsp installation option :)
* bimberi is running xubuntu for the first time ever right now
<pips1> #32 not bad either
<bimberi> it has a very cool login splash
<pips1> bimberi what's your first impression? do you like xcfe?
<bimberi> yes, very much
* pips1 likes the splash too
<bimberi> i really should try it on my Celeron466
<highvoltage> #32 is excellent for a niche distribution
<bimberi> the xfce mouse running in a spinning logo
<pips1> highvoltage :)
<pips1> bimberi yeah :)
<highvoltage> bimberi: i've used it on a celron300 with 64MB ram, and it even worked well there :)
<bimberi> highvoltage: ooh good :)
<bimberi> i really think that "edxubuntu" is going to be a good combination
<highvoltage> yep, that's what we're going to use for tuxlabs.
<bimberi> yes, i saw that (on the mailing list)
<lucasvo> 16  Xubuntu  428
<lucasvo> WOW
<highvoltage> sorry, i'm quite excited about it :)
<lucasvo> it's on place 16 in last month
<highvoltage> geez, and it only released yesterday for the first time :)
* bimberi boots the celeron :)
<pips1> highvoltage who is the core people involved in xubuntu?
<pips1> are
<pips1> last time i stuck my head into the xubuntu channel I think it was less that 5 heads present...
<highvoltage> pips1: https://launchpad.net/people/xubuntu-team
* pips1 goes and looks again
<highvoltage> Irssi: #xubuntu: Total of 45 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 44 normal
<pips1> woa different story today, what a crowd :)
<lucasvo> gimpshop is cool
<highvoltage> it's not packaged for ubuntu yet, is it?
<lucasvo> I don't know
<pips1> lucasvo what is it?
<lucasvo> pips1: gimp with photoshop like UI
<lucasvo> other menus
<pips1> need to check that out then, definitely! I have a hard time getting used to gimp because I'm so used to photoshop
<lucasvo> http://plasticbugs.com/index.php?p=241
<cbx33> pips1, I'm photoshop user too
<pips1> cheers
<cbx33> gimpshop
<cbx33> ?
* pips1 since photoshop 2.0
<pips1> :)
* pips1 professional photographer
<lucasvo> I am using it since 4
<pips1> :)
<cbx33> pips1, 
<cbx33> silentkeystroke.deviantart.com
<cbx33> :D
<cbx33> would appreciate feedback :p
<cbx33> does gimpshop have adjustment layers :p
<cbx33> that's my fav feature of ps compared to others
<pips1> well, professional photographer is wrong, I was trained as a professional photographer, but then got sucked into this whole internet thing ;-)
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> I just mess around
<cbx33> if gimpshop has adjustment layers I'll install it right now
<lucasvo> no
<lucasvo> it doesn't 
<cbx33> :(
<cbx33> then I'm afraid I'll be keeping my wine emulation of photoshop 6
<pips1> cbx33 very nice work, dude!
<cbx33> ty :p
<pips1> yeah, adjustment layers is a killer feature for me too :)
<cbx33> you can do stuff just sooo quickly
<cbx33> pips1, http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/9488238/
<cbx33> ever tried that :p
<cbx33> take flamin ages
<pips1> excellent
<cbx33> was a 1 in 1,000,000 chance
<pips1> I can imagine...
<cbx33> hover flys don;t tend to land for long
<cbx33> ;)
* cbx33 gets back to gisomount coding
<pips1> yeah, bloody nervous buggers
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> pips1, where are you in the world?
<lucasvo> in the nicest city of the world
<pips1> cbx33 that shot is gold
<pips1> no, platinum
<pips1> !
<ubotu> Not a clue. Try searching at http://ubuntu.cc.com.au/, pips1
<cbx33> and you should have seen the original of this http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/5729831/
<cbx33> it sucked
<cbx33> was taken from a car one day
<pips1> cbx33 do you do (colour) printing yourself?
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> occasionally print laser
<cbx33> cos it's all digital
<pips1> ic
<cbx33> my dad does do colour prints
<cbx33> I've done B+W
<pips1> no analog whatsoever?
<pips1> ah
<cbx33> not any more
<cbx33> digital gives an amateur the freedom to experiment FREE
<pips1> I still do analog for landscapes
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> wish i had this one in analog http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/2753932/
<jsgotangco> who did this?
<cbx33> jsgotangco, what?
<jsgotangco> the images?
<cbx33> me
<jsgotangco> nice lens
<cbx33> on which photo?
<jsgotangco> or is it already altered?
<jsgotangco> ahh the hues were changed
<pips1> oh man the photographers are taking over #edubuntu ;-)
<cbx33> jsgotangco, yeh i do do a little *cough* editing
<jsgotangco> pips1: i do b&w then
<pips1> jsgotangco haven't done b&w since my student days...
<pips1> but it is wonderful
<cbx33> I havn't done any photography for about a year now
<cbx33> pips1, totally
<jsgotangco> same here
* jsgotangco blames samsung and their awesome camera phones
<cbx33> heheh
* cbx33 was looking at them
<cbx33> any good js?
<jsgotangco> i'd like to get the 8MP phone
<highvoltage> the d820's are quite cool
<cbx33> http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/4435307/
<cbx33> that one was funny
<jsgotangco> my 4MP camera phone isn't holding much longer
* cbx33 has an 8MP camera
<cbx33> olympus c-8080
<jsgotangco> cbx33: CAMERA PHONE
<jsgotangco> heh
<cbx33> nice except I want a true DSLR
<cbx33> jsgotangco, yeh i know
<jsgotangco> that's true
<cbx33> it's a great wide angle at 28mm
<jsgotangco> my last slr was a pentax
<jsgotangco> its still alive
<cbx33> but the zoom is only about 140mm
<jsgotangco> however, ektachrome film prices have jumped seriously
<cbx33> compared to the 380mm I used to have on my first digi an oly c-740
* jsgotangco would probably bring it in paris to take some "serious developer" shots
* jsgotangco doesn't mind becomeing a professional photographer for FHM or Ralph
* pips1 needs to get back to work
<pips1> nice photography cbx33 see you later
<cbx33> thanks pips1 look forward to seeing some of yours :p
<cbx33> I need to get back to gisomount too
<jsgotangco> cbx33: you should do comps for that in edubuntu 
<cbx33> heh
<pygi> cbx33, gisomount again :)
<cbx33> yeh pygi gotta hone my python skills
<cbx33> you do want *actual* help on scp right?
* jsgotangco has to brush up on python again
<pygi> cbx33, why else would I invite you to team? :)
<jsgotangco> been a while since i did serious python
<jsgotangco> friday night brb
<cbx33> jsgotangco, I wouldn't call what I'm doing serious python
<cbx33> I'm learning
<lucasvo> e
<lucasvo> 13:04 < cbx33> but the zoom is only about 140mm
<lucasvo> 13:05 < jsgotangco> however, ektachrome film prices have jumped seriously
<lucasvo> 13:05 < cbx33> compared to the 380mm I used to have on my first digi an oly c-740
<lucasvo> 13:05  * jsgotangco would probably bring it in paris to take some "serious developer" shots
<lucasvo> 13:06  * jsgotangco doesn't mind becomeing a professional photographer for FHM or Ralph
<lucasvo> 13:06  * pips1 needs to get back to work
<lucasvo> 13:06 < pips1> nice photography cbx33 see you later
<lucasvo> 13:07 < cbx33> thanks pips1 look forward to seeing some of yours :p
<lucasvo> 13:07 < cbx33> I need to get back to gisomount too
<lucasvo> 13:07 < jsgotangco> cbx33: you should do comps for that in edubuntu 
<lucasvo> I HATE MAC
<lucasvo> the keyboards is crappy
<jsgotangco> ?
<lucasvo> sorry for pasting
<jsgotangco> heh
<cbx33> lucasvo, what was all that aoubt :p
<jsgotangco> okay
<cbx33> hehe
<lucasvo> I always click on the trackpad when I type into my schools powerbook
<jsgotangco> cbx33: yeah, and i should stop playing sudoku too much
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> firday night joy eh ?
<jsgotangco> im waiting for someone its karaoke night
<cbx33> ahhh :p
<jsgotangco> would be nice to have an edubuntu summit somewhere in ASIA because you can't escape karaoke :)
* jsgotangco relishes on a scene with cbx33 singing songs by Nazareth
<jsgotangco> heh
<cbx33> hahah
* pygi counts on Ubuntu conference in Hungary
<jsgotangco> ok laterz
* highvoltage used to hate kareoke, but then i was pulled into it at an office party, and actually enjoyed it
<jsgotangco> okayyyy
* jsgotangco thinks of highvoltage singing sexbomb
<highvoltage> nah, i was singing imagine
<jsgotangco> pfftttt
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: do you play in arcades
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: hi used to when i was 7/8
<jsgotangco> have you seen a Dance Dance Revolution Machine
<jsgotangco> or Drum Mania
<highvoltage> i think so. never tried it though
<highvoltage> that's the things you compete dancing with another player, right?
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> with 100 people watching
* highvoltage wouldn't enjoy that
<jsgotangco> but the people watching will
<jsgotangco> its all about audience impact heh
* cbx33 does that
<cbx33> we have dancing stage fusion on ps2 :D
<cbx33> and 2 mats :p
<cbx33> it's fun :D
<cbx33> brb
<pips1> i have just been to japan and saw Drum Mania for first time
<pips1> :)
<pips1> it was a couple and they where drumming like maniacs for sure... real pros
<lucasvo>  let's try something out
<lucasvo> startkeylogger
<lucasvo> :(
<lucasvo> does not work 
<pips1> and I once saw a guy dancing alone for a two player game of Dance Machine :-D 
<pips1> he was a bboy (aka breakdancer) and was throwing in all those cool moves that aren't even necessary for the game, what a show!
<pips1> I wish I would have had a cam with me at that time :(
<cbx33> I once saw a tramp with his two dogs fighting
<cbx33> I had my camera but couldn't pluck up the courage to ask him
<cbx33> stupid me
<pygi> cbx33, poke?
<cbx33> peek
<cbx33> actually i need to poke you too
<cbx33> how can i return a files size in python?
<cbx33> in bytes?
<cbx33> pygi, peek :p
<pygi> cbx33, sorry, was out for a sec
<pygi> there are two ways
<pygi> one with "sys.stat" and one without
<pygi> the one without should be: filesize = self.file.tell()
<cbx33> ok cool thanks
<pygi> lemme write the one with stat for you
<cbx33> thanks pygi
<cbx33> what can i do for you?
<bimberi> os.path has a getsize function
<pygi> sys.stat has ST_SIZE also :)
<bimberi> :)
<bimberi> ooh, speaking of new looks - http://python.org
* pygi looks
<pygi> bimberi, that's "old"
<pygi> not really old, but it's there for some time
<bimberi> well, new to me :)
<pygi> bimberi, nice :P
<pips1> "old" but much better :)
<pygi> cbx33, try avoiding importing a lot of stuff if you don't have to
<cbx33> i know
<cbx33> os is already in there
<cbx33> pygi, you poked me
<cbx33> any reason :p
<pygi> cbx33, you are using second approach then?
<pygi> yes, but nothing important :)
<cbx33> probably
<cbx33> pygi, what can i do for you
<pygi> nothing, don't worry :)
<cbx33> u sure?
<cbx33> ask away
<cbx33> I'm not busy
<pygi> cbx33, do you have os.path imported by now in application?
<cbx33> yes
<pygi> well, then no need to import parts of stat
<juliux> hi all
<pygi> as bimberi said, there is "getsize" function in it
<cbx33> ok cool
<juliux> ogra, i have shutdown my bittorrent client, the upload was only 25kb/s today
<juliux> ogra, but i uploaded 30GB over the night
<ogra> WOW
<pygi> ogra, would you mind if I change interface?
<ogra> pygi, pardon ? 
<pygi> s-c-p interface :)
<ogra> to what ? 
<pygi> Not sure just yet...but something so computers might be arranged to match how they look in classroom, and something :)
<ogra> note that there is a lot autorefreshing and autodetection code (in case you've not tested it in action)
<ogra> that would mean a rewrite from scratch
<ogra> i'm not really keen to have it rewritten
<pygi> ah, well :)
<pygi> hm, ok
<ogra> we can rearrange and extend existing parts thoug
<highvoltage> ogra: edubuntu has had 698 hits from distrowatch the last 24h
<pygi> I was thinking something along the lines of "hidden tabs" for interface
<pygi> something like this
<pygi> http://www.globaly.org/annant/fama.glade
<ogra> highvoltage, wow
<ogra> pygi, doesnt load for me
<pygi> ogra, the url or?
<pygi> file itself?
<ogra> pygi, ugh thats a horrible interface
<pygi> ogra, why ? :P
<ogra> i want my mother to be able to grok the usage on first sight
<pygi> o joy, but the tabs will be hidden
<ogra> try with your mother (or granny) if she understands the UI without reading the docs its fine
<pygi> ah,ok
* pygi understands
<ogra> kiss ;)
<pygi> yes, but that is not good for some things ;)
<pygi> like arranging computers position in classroom :)
<pygi> Anyway, I'll stop about it :)
<ogra> dont forget its for teachers
<ogra> so apart from being understandable as easy as possible it needs to preserve you enough space on the screen to do some work stuff alongside
<ogra> if you have 20PCs in your classroom an UI where you arrange everything like in the classroom you'll waste a lot of space
<ogra> please try the existing UI first with some user logged in on ltsp 
<ogra> s/user/users/
<pygi> oki, don't worry :) I suppose VNC stuff shouldn't cover the entire screen also then
<ogra> the code thats in there already restricts vnc to 800x600 iirc
<ogra> windowed
<pygi> oki
<ogra> vnc is already impelemented but disabled in the current code
<pygi> yup, saw that :)
<ogra> i havent found a good way yes to implement the side of the client in a non intrusive way
<ogra> s/yes/yet
<pygi> yup, I know (we already discussed that)
<ogra> needs some very intrusive changes to x11vnc
<pygi> and we wouldnt like that
<ogra> sure we'd like that, but all changes must be debian policy conformant
<pygi> hm,oki
<ogra> and the package must work as it did before the change if not used in ltsp
<shriphani> hello daad
<ogra> that a policy we need to match with *all* packages we change (also for ltsp and the like)
<artisan> hi shriphani 
<ogra> hey shriphani 
<shriphani> hello ogra 
<ogra> hi artisan 
<artisan> heya ogra 
<ogra> shriphani, if you put in the CD on a breezy system, it will offer you an upgrade automatically
<shriphani> should i reboot from cd ?
<ogra> that would give you a live session where you'd then do a full install
<shriphani> ok i should put it in when breezy is running
<ogra> if you just pop it into your running breezy system you get a dialog that asks if you want to upgrade
<shriphani> ok
<ogra> exactly
<shriphani> when is ubuntu shiiping dapper ?
<ogra> we started yesterday
<shriphani> oh cool
<shriphani> i am sure i can wait for a month
<ogra> :)
<artisan> lol
<shriphani> lol
<artisan> alright, im off
<ogra> ciao art
<ogra> bah
<ogra> to fast :)
<shriphani> ogra, i got a problem with my usb floppy too in ubuntu breezy
<shriphani> i mean linux has created a mount point for the device at installation
<ogra> shriphani, thats rather a question for #ubuntu
<shriphani> oh ok
<ogra> :)
<shriphani> is edubuntu being shipped as well ?
<ogra> yep
<shriphani> xubuntu ?
<ogra> on shipit.edubuntu.org
<pygi> shriphani, xubuntu no
<ogra> xubuntu is a fully community driven distro
<shriphani> can i dualboot ubuntu, kubuntu and edubuntu ?
<shriphani> i mean triboot
<ogra> sure
<pygi> shriphani, yup 
<shriphani> oh cool
<shriphani> i ordered kubuntu recently
<shriphani> they say that the my cd is sent for shipping
<ogra> cool
<shriphani> :)
<highvoltage> kubuntu also started as a community project. perhaps xubuntu will also have cd's next time round :)
<ogra> if we still do shipit
<shriphani> are you planning to quit shipit ?
<highvoltage> i'm quite convinced that shipit will continue, even if people have to pay for it.
<highvoltage> i'll start my own shipit, if i have to :)
<cbx33> ogra, the volume label mounting you wanted is fixed :p
<Corgan> Morning.
<bddebian> Howdy
<jamison> hi everyone..
<jamison> I'm setting up an Edubuntu network for TEFL International, and I'm having trouble with the server install.
<jamison> Anyone have the time to lend a hand?
<ogra> jamison, did you follow http://www.edubuntu.org/gettingstarted ?
<jamison> sure did. i've tried 2 fresh installs from different ISO burns and downloads.
<jamison> gets all the way through the install, but after the reboot it won't display the login screen.
<ogra> thats weird, what kind of monitor/graphics card do you have ? and do you hear the drum sound from the login manager after it booted ?
<jamison> after the reboot it loads grub (slowly) and does the mounting etc... then the screen goes blank. what is really strange is that if I press the power button, it asks for root pswd to shutdown.
<ogra> no errors ? 
<jamison> not displayed.
<ogra> whats the last thing you see on the graphical bootscreen ? 
<jamison> will check. I found this suggestion on the forums: sudo gedit /etc/X11/xorg.conf but it couldn't find the .conf
<ogra> that doesnt sond like your innstalled edubuntu at all
<ogra> rather like you did an expert install or installed the server CD 
<ogra> s/the server/from the server/
<jamison> the first time i installed the workstation of edubuntu, then the server off a different cd.
<ogra> and the workstation install did leave you in that condition as well ? 
<jamison> just got an overclocking error. really strange.
<ogra> that rather sounds like hardware issues
<ogra> what kind of system is that ? 
<jamison> sure does. I'm in Egypt, and all I've seen since I've been here is systems thrown together.
<ogra> so whats the HW spec of the server you try to install on
<jamison> p3, 200gb western digital HD, 256 ram, network card, etc...
<ogra> ok
<ogra> and you have the i386 CD i guess (not the amd64 one by accident or something)
<ogra> also i assume thats dapper, right
<ogra> ?
<jamison> it gets all the way to the "Kernel Log" in the graphical boot before it goes blank. 
<jamison> yeah the 6.06 LTS
<ogra> ok
<ogra> and its definately an edubuntu CD you used there ? a missing xorg.conf usually cant happen (empty ones could, but not missing ones)
<jamison> yup. couldn't even find /etc/x11/
<ogra> that should be /etc/X11
<jamison> i've tried two installs, and the symptoms are the same.
<ogra> with a capital X
<jamison> i'll check again, but when i did a dir unter /etc neither where there. i'll check now
<ogra> well, the workstation install should have picked it up
<lucasvo> jamison: are you sure the installation finished correctly?
<ogra> i dont know from what you made the server install though, there is no "server" option on the edubuntu CDs 
<jamison> yup. it ejected the CD and asked to rebook.
<jamison> yeah, but the gettingstarted guide calls it that. i selected teh Install to Hard disk option, where you must supply an IP instead of having it autoconfigured.
<ogra> make sure you definately only hit enter on the CD bootscreen, if that still finishes properly and you have the samme symptoms, something is really wrong
<ogra> yeah, thats the right one
<ogra> (we had a "server" option in breezy that didnt install a gui, so thats why i always point out the "server" stuff)
<ogra> sorry, i have to go out for ~1h, i'll be back soon
<jamison> you don't think there is another way other than reinstall? should I just hit enter and do the workstation?
<jamison> no worries. thanks for the help
<ogra> no, if you want a server, just use the "install to harddisk" option
<ogra> workstation omits all server bits and you'd need to set up everything manually
<ogra> but i see no way how you would end up without X installed if there were no errors during install
<ogra> can you upload /var/log/instaler/syslog anywhere so i can have a look at it if i come back ? 
<ogra> *installer
<ogra> (from the broken install that is)
<ogra> bbl
<jamison> probably no (based on my skills). I'm going to do another install. 
<jamison> brh
<pawsilver> Can anyone help me with Synaptic packaging errors?
<pygi> pawsilver, shoot
<lucasvo> pawsilver: please be a little bit more specific :)
<pawsilver> Hi I'm getting this message after i try install or download anything.  In fact it comes up in Synaptic, Add remove programs and update manager
<pawsilver> E: samba: subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 102
<pawsilver> E: edubuntu-server: dependency problems - leaving unconfigured
<pawsilver> E: samba-dbg: dependency problems - leaving unconfigured
<pawsilver> ??? help
<lucasvo> pawsilver: open a terminal
<lucasvo> type "sudo apt-get dist-upgrade"
<lucasvo> and pastebin the output
<lucasvo> pawsilver: I have to go now
<lucasvo> but try in #ubuntu since it's a general problem and not only edubuntu related
<lucasvo> cya
<pawsilver> thanx
<pawsilver> cya
<pawsilver> Can anyone help me with Synaptic packaging errors?
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<pawsilver> Can anyone help me with Synaptic packaging errors?
<LaserJock> pawsilver: same as above?
<pawsilver> LaserJock, where can i pastebin the output?
<pawsilver> LaserJock, Can you help?
<LaserJock> pawsilver: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/
<pawsilver> LaserJock, I have pasted the outcome of "sudo apt-get dist-upgrade" in the ubuntu pastebin
<pawsilver> Hope you can help, thanx
<LaserJock> what is the url?
<pawsilver> LaserJock, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/14957
<LaserJock> pawsilver: are you upgrading?
<pawsilver> upgrading?  I do upgrade just about every day!  When ever it tells me to
<LaserJock> ok, and what release are you using? 5.10 or 6.06?
<pawsilver> I down loaded the 6.06 beta release sometime in April
<LaserJock> ok
<pawsilver> LaserJock, could it be something in my repositories?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> it looks like it is a known bug
<LaserJock> pawsilver: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/samba/+bug/37027
<pawsilver> LaserJock, thanx!  
<LaserJock> pawsilver: looks like a workaround is to "sudo rm /etc/rc2.d/K09samba" and then upgrade
<pawsilver> LaserJock, by upgrade you mean just run synaptic package?
<LaserJock> pawsilver: retry doing whatever you were doing when you had the problem
<pawsilver> LaserJock, Ok shot!!  I'll try that
<pawsilver> LaserJock, :)  shot its working
<LaserJock> cool
<pawsilver> LaserJock, This is why I luv edubuntu, far more support than microsoft
<pawsilver> Everyone helping everyone!  I will never go back to Microsoft again
<LaserJock> yep, the community is awesome
<LaserJock> mostly volunteer too, which is amazing
<pawsilver> yep its totally amazing
<mhz> hi all
<mhz> ogra, ping
<jsgotangco> hi!
<mhz> ogra, I am mounting /media/usbdisk
<mhz> jsgotangco, hey
<highvoltage> i love ubuntu
<highvoltage> !!!!!!!!!111!!! cos(0)!11one!!
<ubotu> highvoltage: My cat's name is Mittens! Try searching at http://ubuntu.cc.com.au/
<jsgotangco> who doesn't?
<bddebian> highvoltage: And it loves you ;-P
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: billy bill bill
<highvoltage> bddebian: :)
<mhz> BUT, I have tried to set group to rwx but it just produces no changes. It still with no permission to group
<mhz> highvoltage, how do you make clients to rwx pendrives?
<ogra> mhz, how do you "mount" it ? thats usually done by gnome-volume-manager using pmount
<mhz> highvoltage, I have tried chmod and chown.. unsuccessfully
<mhz> ogra, yeah, it mounts
<mhz> BUT the clients wont see it
<ogra> and pmount only allows the user who mounted access to the drive by policy
<mhz> yeah , iknow
<ogra> ask pitti if there is a way to override that (i dont think there is)
<mhz> hmm, it does not even let me make ln -s
<highvoltage> mhz: i don't know
<mhz> highvoltage, hmm, and then how could I share a pendrive with all cleints?
<mhz> samba?
<mhz> I have used "share folder" in the server side
<mhz> and have no idea how to access to it via clients
<highvoltage> mhz: previosly, i edited the fstab, and then all clients could access it from the server
<highvoltage> (via icon on desktop
<highvoltage> )
<highvoltage> i think i added ,user in the options line
<highvoltage> can't exactly remember
<highvoltage> i just did my first dapper from scratch install and is completely stunned by it
<highvoltage> it's amazing
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> indeed
<jsgotangco> now if it only had network-manager by default
* highvoltage installs it
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: where do i find network-manager after it's installed?
<jsgotangco> it just runs by itself when you reboot
<jsgotangco> but you'll have to clean up your /etc/network/interfaces
<highvoltage> ok
<jsgotangco> because it'll just manage by itself
* highvoltage discovers yakuake
<jsgotangco> do you use emacs
<highvoltage> nope. i know how save and exit in emacs though :)
<jsgotangco> do you use any daily planning app (no evolution doesn't apply)
<highvoltage> does gedit count? :)
<mhz> damn automounting option !
<mhz> I mount it manually and no problem
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: planner-el
<highvoltage> i sometimes plan things in plain text in gedit
* highvoltage installs it
<jsgotangco> then look at the maintainer's page here
<jsgotangco> http://sacha.free.net.ph/
<highvoltage> The following NEW packages will be installed: emacs-wiki emacs21 emacs21-bin-common emacs21-common emacsen-common planner-el xaw3dg
<highvoltage> :)
<jsgotangco> emacs-wiki is essential
<jsgotangco> well like i said, you need emacs heh
<bddebian> heh
* mhz just does not like automatic stuff, it is to blind
<highvoltage> doing boring repetitive stuff sux though :)
<LaserJock> emacs? vim >> emacs ;-) 
<bddebian> nano >> vim >> emacs  ;-P
* bddebian calls for Editor Jihad!!
<highvoltage> nano!? oh no man :)
<bddebian> kate? ;-P
<highvoltage> nano reminds me too much about MS-DOS Editor
<LaserJock> nano is great for conf files and quick edits
<bddebian> Yep
<bddebian> Which is about all I do :-)
<jsgotangco> yep
<highvoltage> vim is great for that too :)
<LaserJock> when I'm doing docbook though I'm all vim
<highvoltage> omg we're really starting
* highvoltage shuts up about editors
<LaserJock> I'd use gedit or kate more if was ever actually at my Ubuntu box
<jsgotangco> actually bluefish aces them all
* LaserJock mutters something about stupid intel macs
<ogra> highvoltage, NM breaks the dhcp server, dont use it on edubuntu servers
<Burgwork> somebody was looking for me?
<highvoltage> ogra: good tip, thanks
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: omg yakuake is awesome
<jsgotangco> it doesn't look great in gnome though
<highvoltage> i'm running it in gnome too. i'm not really going to use it
<highvoltage> i love the concept of it though
<highvoltage> i want a terminal. now!
<highvoltage> F12
<highvoltage> :)
<jsgotangco> yeah
<ogra> highvoltage, if you want to discuss xfce inclusion in paris now is the time to create your spec for it (see the ubuntu-devel mail from mdz)
<highvoltage> ogra: i just read his mail
<highvoltage> ogra: i trust your judgement though, do you think it's reasonable to write such a spec?
<ogra> ok
<ogra> well, if you want to discuss it, you need to write a spec ;)
<highvoltage> i sometimes feel that i'm making too many demands here :)
<highvoltage> ok, i'll write a spec :)
<ogra> it would be good if you could determine the additiona size needed for xubuntu-desktop on the CD (note that many packages might already be there)
<ogra> we could then have a xfce option in the install menu (in case it fits)
<highvoltage> if i do a clean edubuntu install, and apt-get install the bare xfce desktop, can i use the size of /var/cache/apt/archives? (assuming i did an apt-get clean before the install)
<ogra> hmm, that might work, yes
<ogra> but to get full functionallity, you will need xubuntu-desktop
<ogra> i wouldnt include something that doesnt fully work 
<highvoltage> ok, i'll do an apt-get install xubuntu-desktop too, and see how much we need
<ogra> i.e. if you use the desktop it shall not behave to different from a default ubuntu
<highvoltage> good point.
<ogra> (which xubuntu-desktop guarantees)
<ogra> we would probably want a special metapackage xubuntu-ltsp-desktop or something that doesnt depend on the goffice stuff
<highvoltage> i was a bit torn about that for tuxlabs
<highvoltage> the goffice stuff flies on thin clients. and generally works well.
<highvoltage> the problem is that OpenICDL is completely based of OOo
<ogra> and eats oour diskspace while we already ship oo.o
<highvoltage> ah yes, that too. hopefully Sun and community will get openoffice better.
<ogra> there is no way that i'd include abiword or gnumeric as long as we ship oo.o
<highvoltage> i understand. i'm not against OOo, it's just... well, big and clunky.
<ogra> in any case the xubuntu thing depends on diskspace
<mhz> re
<highvoltage> which there is a low likelyhood of being, it seems hey?
<ogra> lets see
<ogra> if we can drop kde and firefox it might be possible
<highvoltage> although, in the slim chance of us having a second cd, xubuntu integration might stand a better chance :)
<mhz> highvoltage, re pendrive/ it was easily solved by mounting it manually :)
<ogra> we wont have a second CD
<mhz> highvoltage, thx for the tip
<highvoltage> mhz: heh. so you hate auto stuff even more now?
<highvoltage> ogra: should i delete the spec then?
<mhz> highvoltage, yeah, it si soooooo not user friendly :D
<ogra> apart from the possibility to have an additional language CD
<highvoltage> how much space does the additional languages use?
<mhz> highvoltage, are you discussin about a light edubuntu?
<ogra> yes
<highvoltage> mhz: among other things, yes
<ogra> highvoltage, http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/langpacks/langpacksize.txt
* highvoltage looks
<ogra> G means gnome langpacks, K means KDE
<highvoltage> wow, i didn't realise it was that big
<ogra> yep
<ogra> look at the difference between G and K :)
<mhz> highvoltage, i am using xubuntu-desktop on top of gnome, as a default option.
<ogra> if we cant drop kdeedu, i will have to make langpack-kdeedu-$(LANG) packages i guess
<mhz> and for sure, it would be lovely for many users to have that option in shipped CD
<ogra> mhz, thats not the question :)
<highvoltage> heh
<mhz> ogra, which is then? what to take out?
<ogra> that and "will it even fit and not hinder us in shipping other stuff"
<mhz> ogra, oh, i see now
<mhz> thx for clarifyinng it out
<highvoltage> ogra, what's the main reason to stick with gnome, is it because that's what edubuntu is decided on, or is it to keep it ubuntu-like? would it be plausable to drop gnome some time in the future in favour of xfce?
<ogra> xfce isnt really a priority for being an educational distro
<highvoltage> or might it be easier to add the edu tools to Xubuntu? :)
<highvoltage> true... haven't though of it that way.
<ogra> gnome is our default, i have the whole team available to help with bugs and tweaks i do
<ogra> as long as i have a say i wont vote for dropping gnome, simply out of manpower reasons
<highvoltage> ok
<highvoltage> it's a very good reason.
<ogra> additionally we can easily rely on the ubuntu documentation 
<highvoltage> i'm not necassarily pesting you, it's great to get these answers from you, it means I know what to say when users ask me :)
* highvoltage copies and pastes this conversation for future reference
<ogra> and dont forget that we will not always stay a ltsp distro
<ogra> there will be bigger setups where ltsp is only one of the options 
<highvoltage> i understand.
<ogra> i.e. if you set up a whole school, you will want workstations etc
<highvoltage> i've never been a big fan of ltsp, per say.
<highvoltage> i believe that diskless is good, but not doing *everything* on one server
<highvoltage> the workstations must so some work too.
<ogra> these workstations will be managed by tools written in ubuntu, not in edubuntu
<ogra> these tools will be written in and for a gnome environment
<ogra> oh, btw, damned 
<highvoltage> ok
<ogra> i'm pretty sure we cant ship gnome and xubuntu alongside
<Yagisan> highvoltage: well, if you only use 1 server, you've not implemented it right
<Yagisan> oh, and morning all
<ogra> xubuntu rebuilds a lot of gnome packages without gnome support, that will break
<highvoltage> Yagisan: the vast majority of ltsp labs have a single server :(
<highvoltage> mostly from a cost perspective.
<highvoltage> there's often another server for mail/web stuff. but not for applications.
<ogra> highvoltage, make sure to talk to janimo about the above and note a solution (if there is one) in the spec draft
<highvoltage> ogra: ok
<Yagisan> highvoltage: that's a shame. I'd never spec one like that for a client.
<highvoltage> ogra: i've installed gnome and xfce along side
<ogra> what other specs do we want (or can we achieve in 4 months)
<ogra> ?
<highvoltage> and xubuntu-system-tools as well as gnome-system-tools run fine
<highvoltage> what do we expect to break?
<ogra> ok
<ogra> that would be one area
<highvoltage> ogra: have you logged fully-automatic-swap-server?
<ogra> alsoi what does xubuntu use for automounting ? 
<ogra> yes, thats on my list in any case
<ogra> as local devices and ltsp manager
<highvoltage> i suspect LAMS is too premature?
<ogra> also usergroup driven menu profiles
<ogra> LAMS has still a java problem
<ogra> (we cant ship non free java)
<highvoltage> guest user on demand would be nice, although security team won't like it
<ogra> what about thick clients (netbooted workstations) ?
<highvoltage> for example, there's a button 'guest' on the gdm screen, and if you click on it, it creates a limited, guest user that will be deleted after log out.
<highvoltage> hmmm... i think i might have written a spec for diskless fat clients already
* highvoltage checks
<ogra> you can write aq spec and invite the security team to your BOFs to get it done *right* ;)
<mhz> ogra, and if edubuntu-light had xfce as option, but including/using gnome dependencies... would that still mean lighter performance than plain gnome install?
<highvoltage> ogra: yes, i'll write a spec for that then
<ogra> in fact thats the reason we meet, get the right people in and you wil have a proper solution
<ogra> even if its evil, we should implement it the right way ;)
<highvoltage> yep, we have to make the most of it.
<highvoltage> yeah, we have the best excorcists available :)
<ogra> mhz, i guess so, you'll need more mem for the additional gnome libs 
<mhz> ogra, thx
<highvoltage> ogra: here it is, a very vague draft: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/ltsp-fat-clients
<highvoltage> ogra: i still need to read through all of sabdfl's docs on good specs
<highvoltage> i'll do that tomorrow morning and make all my specs nice
<mhz> highvoltage, in your labs, do you have enough hardware for diff kind of performance tests?
<ogra> take your time you have until the 18th
<ogra> highvoltage, thats a local apps spec
<highvoltage> ogra: if i can give you advice... i don't think it's ever a good idea to tell me 'take your time' :)
<mhz> hehehe
<ogra> make a bit more clear that you mean to run the whole desktop in the ltsp chroot
<highvoltage> ok
<mhz> yeah, it is incredible how relaxing is for me that "take your time" expression. It would gimme a chance to just append an item to the end of my ToDo :D
<ogra> highvoltage, well, i ve told you the deadline alongside ;)
<highvoltage> mhz: that's what i tend to do. it's not that i'm lazy, it's just that i tend to have many things that 'needed to be done yesterday', and if someone says 'nah, it's not urgent', i tend ot think, ok, i have lots of time for that. and then a day before the deadline, i realise i haven't started yet.
<highvoltage> but luckily i work well under pressure :)
<mhz> highvoltage, I used to think I worked good under pressure until one day I could not even sit at the computer or even walk, even after I thought I was conciously deciding to sit down or walk, but stress was hidden somewhere giving orders I did not know :)
<mhz> then, I realized, the only way I could work fine under pressure was doing some sport
<mhz> or having some hours off, totaly off
<mhz> my 2 cents :D
<highvoltage> mhz: i was there too at one stage.
<mhz> just dont forget it happens one way or another :)
<highvoltage> mhz: in 2001, i worked in a computer shop. two days before pay day, i threw a hissy fit and said i'd rather clean dirty toilets for a living than work with computers again
<mhz> lol
<highvoltage> mhz: and i left without ever going back. i told them they can stuff it
<highvoltage> ogra: remember that gtk bug i filed for edubuntu? i'm getting the same on my laptop with the normal ubuntu theme. perhaps i have some very strange, yet subtle hardware problem. or perhaps it's just something I do that causes it.
<Burgwork> highvoltage, what is the bug?
<highvoltage> Burgwork: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/edubuntu-artwork/+bug/47336
<Burgwork> highvoltage, might that be a video driver issue?
<Burgwork> can you get sladen to look at it?
<highvoltage> Burgwork: i just re-installed this laptop tonight
<highvoltage> Burgwork: previously it was with a clean edubuntu install :/
<highvoltage> but i'll see if sladen can give some feedback.
<highvoltage> what does he do? does he work on gtk themes?
<Burgwork> no, general stuff
<Spider`> hi
<highvoltage> hi Spider` 
<Spider`> the edubuntu he have the install of 6.06
<Spider`> not live
<highvoltage> ok
<Spider`> ?
* mhz reads about the Bolivia issue, confirming many others in LA have same issue :(
<Spider`> he have
<highvoltage> Spider`: i'm not sure i'm understanding you
<mhz> highvoltage, is southafrica areas also difficutl to get internet access too?
<highvoltage> Spider`: you have the edubuntu text install cd, not the live one. do you have a problem?
<Spider`> how i can change the edubuntu beta 2 
<highvoltage> mhz: very
<Spider`> to edubuntu 6.06
<highvoltage> mhz: you can get it everywhere, but it's very expensive
<highvoltage> mhz: i'm curently paying about US$2 to download my ati drivers over gprs :(
<highvoltage> Spider`: you can rsync it
<highvoltage> Spider`: just a sec..
<mhz> highvoltage, i see. more arguments to have edubuntu-lighte and, in the case of LA, more arguments to support my idea of Edubuntu Latino (all set default for spanish speakers)
* mhz crosses fingers so FET becomes successfull
<mhz> highvoltage, if FET works out ok, I may get some funding for Edubuntu Latino (ot at least Chile :D which still work for the rest)
<Burgwork> mhz, latiano is probably a good thing, but see if you can brand it so that it has traction is spain and portugal as well
<mhz> Burgwork, yeah, well, Spain is THE only spanish speaker country that has many issues regarding lang support
<mhz> and so Portugal and Brazil
<mhz> Burgwork, i mean, spain is the only country that insists on calling stuff with names that no one in Latinamerica uses
<highvoltage> ogra: i'm not sure what the rsync link is for 6.06 stable, could you please post it here? my connection is extremely slow currently, it's hard to check
<mhz> and LA popultaion is much wider, so .. my 1st idea would be for LA. However, Spain Gov. do have some support for FLOSS projects, individually for each spain region, becuase even inside Spain, there are losts of variations to spanish... it is a mess :D
<ogra> highvoltage, rsync://releases.ubuntu.com/releases/edubuntu/dapper/edubuntu-6.06-install-i386.iso
<blue-frog> ogra: something wrong about the rsync link you gave? I just tried to rsync my cds (ubuntu) and they just went from 600MB to 37 KB :)
<ogra> well, see yourself  rsync rsync://releases.ubuntu.com/releases/edubuntu/dapper/
<Spider`> ogra
<Spider`> how i can upgrade my edubuntu 5.10
<Spider`> to edubuntu 6.06
<ogra> Spider`, follow https://wiki.edubuntu.org/DapperUpgrades and if you have ltsp installed also https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuLTSPUpgradeNotes
<blue-frog> ogra are the numbers right after the permissions the actual size of the cd/dvd?
<ogra> aww, they are links
<blue-frog> ogra: oh that's why i got links on my HDD now :)
<ogra> hmm, no idea where they link to though ... and i have no access to the r.u.c machine
<blue-frog> cause can't rsync either from "normal download page either
<god__> Hello
<blue-frog> *thinks he's gonna wait before trying to rsync his edubuntu dvd and ubuntu dvd :) *
<god__> My computer doesn't seem to have any sound
<god__> Nothing comes out of the speakers when theres clearly music playing
<blue-frog> god__: do you have system sound?
<blue-frog> god__: on edubuntu server or on thin clients?
<god__> I'm not sure --;
* Yagisan notes that with a name like god__ you should be able to snap your fingers and have it working rather quickly
<god__> I installed it on my home computer
<Yagisan> ok
<blue-frog> god__: stupid question your speakers are hooked on?
<god__> yes they are
<god__> I made sure of that one
<blue-frog> volume is not muted?
<god__> nope
<god__> I made sure of that one too
<blue-frog> when you bring the cursor on the sound icon what does it say?
<Yagisan> god__: what is the output from  cat /proc/asound/cards
<Yagisan> god__: is your sound card even detected ?
<god__> Would that require Sudo?
<Yagisan> god__: no
<god__> 0 [Intel          ] : HDA-Intel - HDA Intel
<god__>                      HDA Intel at 0xcfdb8000 irq 16
<god__> Thats all
<god__> Its onboard sound, an OEM HP computer
<paolob_server> Hi guys!
<paolob_server> I've just upgraded the edubuntu server to dapper, but now the client can't login in the gnome session: they keep showing the gnome splash image (the world map), without entering gnome. After a certain time, the gnome attempt fails. Any hint?
<god__> Any ideas for my problem as well?
<paolob_server> In the clients' boot process messages like this appear: "ip length 295 disagrees with bytes received 299"
<paolob_server> Any idea ogra?
<crimsun> god__: tail -2 /proc/asound/oss/sndstat
<god__> crimsun: did you want the output of that command?
<crimsun> god__: yes
<god__> Mixers:
<god__> 0: Realtek ALC880
<crimsun> can you pastebin your ``amixer'' output?
<crimsun> sorry,
<crimsun> ``lspci -nv && amixer''
<god__> Whats the pastebin site?
<crimsun> paste.ubuntu-nl.org, but I can't reach it. Please use pastebin.ca
<god__> http://pastebin.ca/61173
<god__>  < Crimsun
<crimsun> oh, yours is a short one, whew
<crimsun> amixer set 'Front' on && amixer set 'Front' 80%
<god__> Ok, is that it? Or do you want the output of that?
<crimsun> that's it.
<god__> Oh ok, i'll test it now
<cbx33> yahoot
<cbx33> ping LaserJock 
<crimsun> god__: any luck?
<cbx33> god is in edubuntu
<cbx33> I knew we rocked but....
<LaserJock> cbx33: yeah?
<cbx33> LaserJock, more changes to gisomount :D
<cbx33> I've fixed those two bugs about creating the vdirs and using the volumne label as the mount point name
<Yagisan> cbx33: you called ?
<paolob-parroquia> Hi guys!
<cbx33> Yagisan, nope :p
<cbx33> I played a bit on doom the other day
<LaserJock> cbx33: grrr, I'm never even going to get done reading through the code by 3.0 :-)
<cbx33> hehe sure you will
<cbx33> it's pretty easy
<cbx33> I'm going through and commenting now
<LaserJock> I got handed another assignment today ;-)
<cbx33> oh
<cbx33> is that good or bad :p
<cbx33> I've changed the way we store information about which isos are mounted
<Yagisan> cbx33: sorry, when you said god was here, I couldn't help responding
<pygi> cbx33, poke? :)
<cbx33> Yagisan, hehe
<cbx33> pygi, yup I'm here
<cbx33> Yagisan, I'm up to like lvl 5 on doom
<cbx33> could be doom II
<cbx33> can't remember
<pygi> cbx33, did it work? (the function)
<cbx33> oh and a strange bug on it....
<cbx33> pygi, not tried it yet
<Yagisan> cbx33: bug ?
<cbx33> got caught up implementing something else
<LaserJock> cbx33: well, I'm now going to write and maitain the Ubuntu Developer's Reference
<pygi> cbx33, hm,oki :)
<cbx33> LaserJock, wow
<cbx33> that's cool
<cbx33> Yagisan, yes, I don;t get sound on the menu
<cbx33> only if I copy the launcher script and run if from my home dir
<LaserJock> cbx33: yeah, but it's going to be a lot of work
<pygi> LaserJock, if you need help, please poke :)
<Yagisan> cbx33: timidity and freepats installed ?
<cbx33> if you ned any help just shout
<cbx33> dunno
<LaserJock> pygi: you know SGML?
<cbx33> Yagisan, it works
<cbx33> LaserJock, I do :p
<pygi> LaserJock, never really used it
<cbx33> Yagisan, just not from the launcher
<pygi> played around with it a lill'
<paolob-parroquia> I've just upgraded my edubuntu server to dapper, and I have many problems: the clients doesn't enter completely the gnome session, they stay with the gnome splash screeen (the world map) without progressing. I found that in syslog I have lines like: "dhcpd: ip length 295 disagrees with bytes received 299." Any idea? Besides that the internet doesn't work well, xchat doesn't register with the servers, etc. In syslog I see also a "k
<paolob-parroquia> ernel sky2 eth0" which never appeared before the upgrade.... Help!!!!!
<Yagisan> cbx33: ah, what launcher script ?
<cbx33> the launcher command
<cbx33> /usr/games/doomsday -anifilter -texcomp -game jdoom -file /usr/share/games/deng/Data/jDoom/doom2.wad
<Yagisan> cbx33: with that command music should work anywhere
<cbx33> nn all
<bimberi> paolob-parroquia: have you done this? note that the 2nd method is recommended - https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuLTSPUpgradeNotes
<paolob-parroquia> bimberi, ok, but the problem is outside the chroot too: I can't connect to the internet. For example, the browser load google pages, but can't load other pages, the vncviewer doesn't connect to other servers, xchat can't end the login procedure to the server....
<paolob-parroquia> bimberi, the second is the "Recreating the client chroot" ?
<bimberi> paolob-parroquia: yes, i'm not sure about that sorry - my googling for >>"kernel sky2 eth0" syslog<< has some interesting results
<bimberi> paolob-parroquia: yes
<Bluekuja> hello guys
<Bluekuja> bimberi: hello ;)
<bimberi> hi Bluekuja :)
<Bluekuja> bimberi: i was browsing an Ubuntu mirror, i've found a ubuntu-6.0.6-alternate
<Bluekuja> .iso file
<Bluekuja> whats that?
<pygi> hello Andrea
<bimberi> text mode install CD
<Bluekuja> oh hello mario
<pygi> as opposed to live cd
<Bluekuja> ah oki, thanx
<pitux> hi 
<paolob-parroquia> bimberi, aaaaaargggggghhhhh, after deleting the chroot, the ltsp-build-client can't retrieve from the internet of the connection problems...... aaaarrrrggghhh!
<Bluekuja> i never downloaded that .iso, that's why i didnt know ;)
<bimberi> paolob-parroquia: :/
<pitux> when I install edubuntu, can i install the same software for ubuntu?, for example xgl
<Bluekuja> pitux: yes
<bimberi> pitux: yes
<pitux> cool ;D
<pygi> Bluekuja, how does this look like
<pygi> http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/6396/template1gv.png
<Bluekuja> pygi: mario, that's a great website template
<Bluekuja> i would like to see it bigger
<Bluekuja> i mean full page
<bimberi> pygi: very nice :)
<pygi> Bluekuja, it won't be full page, will just be centered
<Bluekuja> well move it to the centre would be great too
<Bluekuja> congratz for it
<pygi> I haven't made it :)
<Bluekuja> ah yeah, you told me
<pygi> :-P
<Bluekuja> about author
<Bluekuja> ^^
<bimberi> well done Josip then :)
<Bluekuja> hehe yeah
<pygi> joy ;)
<Bluekuja> when will it be finish?
<pygi> like next week, but I won't upload it until like end of month
<pygi> I have some nice things to prepare :)
<Bluekuja> oh nice, how much have you paid for it?
<Bluekuja> or maybe your frend did it for free
<pygi> we'll see :)
<bimberi> paolob-parroquia: just a thought - if you have a different model network card available you could try that
<pygi> Argh, I'll need to buy a server :P
<bimberi> pygi: rent one?
<Bluekuja> pyg: i can host it for you
<Bluekuja> hehe
<pygi> bimberi, nah, better to buy one, I can have control over it
<Bluekuja> pygi: what do you need on it?
* bimberi uses unixshell.com - full root access to a xen based virtual machine
<pygi> Bluekuja, I found none who has things I need (django, clearsilver, newest sqlite, stuff)
<pygi> but basicly, there are some stuff that will need some serious server power in the future, so I'll buy a server anyway in near future
<pygi> Bluekuja, thanks for the offer :)
<Bluekuja> pygi: mario np for you
<pygi> Bluekuja, btw. you havent said me the name of package in "Extras" which I can test :(
<pygi> Neither you sent me .deb package :(
<pygi> hey HedgeMage :)
<Bluekuja> pygi: yum search ctorrent
<Bluekuja> pygi: deb package will be available in debian
<Bluekuja> soon i think
<pygi> Bluekuja, ok, thanks :)
<Bluekuja> my advocate/sponsor is reviewing it
<Bluekuja> ;)
<pygi> ;)
<pygi> joy :)
<Bluekuja> anyway rrpm package is available
<pygi> bimberi, Due to lack of Datacenter space,
<pygi> unixshell# has suspended ordering until further notice
<pygi> lol :)
<paolob-parroquia> bimberi, but the issue of this driver sky2.... I think in breezy it wasn't used... Isn't there a way to know what driver was used before and to revert to it?
<HedgeMage> hi
<pygi> how are you HedgeMage ? :)
<juliux> !seen ogra
<ubotu> ogra is currently on #edubuntu (9h 35m 32s) #ubuntu (9h 35m 32s)
<juliux> !seen dholbach
<ubotu> dholbach <n=daniel@ubuntu/member/dholbach> was last seen on IRC in channel #ubuntu, 1d 12h 25m 13s ago, saying: 'WOOHOO'.
<juliux> !seen mvo
<ubotu> juliux: i haven't seen 'mvo'
<LaserJock> mvo was in -devel earlier today
<pygi> LaserJock, ubotu lies :)
<bimberi> paolob-parroquia: breezy livecd perhaps?
<paolob-parroquia> bimberi, what do I do with it?
<paolob-parroquia> bimberi, no, I remember it didn't work with that pc
<lucasvo> !seen cbx
<ubotu> i haven't seen 'cbx', lucasvo
<lucasvo> !seen cbx333
<ubotu> cbx333 <n=c2df514b@209.152.164.93> was last seen on IRC in channel #edubuntu, 2d 11h 14m 30s ago, saying: 'brb'.
<lucasvo> !seen cbx33
<ubotu> cbx33 <n=pete@ubuntu/member/cbx33> was last seen on IRC in channel #edubuntu, 56m 29s ago, saying: 'nn all'.
<lucasvo> good night
<pygi> lucasvo, bad ubotu :)
<pygi> lucasvo, night :)
<bimberi> paolob-parroquia: hmmk, even if it only boots to text mode, you could see what driver is being used
<HedgeMage> pygi: nervous :P
<pygi> HedgeMage, why is that? :P
<HedgeMage> pygi: up for a job that I'd love to get, but not sure I will
<pygi> HedgeMage, o, really? which one? :)
<pygi> good luck ;)
<paolob-parroquia> bimberi, won't I find something in a log file?
<HedgeMage> a consulting thing for C, C++, Perl
<pygi> HedgeMage, nice, good luck ;)
<pygi> I'll need a  bit of your assistance later then ;)
<HedgeMage> :)
<pygi> (to reclaim channel back :P)
* pygi forgot a password :)
<pygi> btw. how was party?
<bimberi> paolob-parroquia: yes, something in /var/log perhaps - or use lsmod
#edubuntu 2006-06-03
<bimberi> ooh, HedgeMage, good luck from me too!  Is it an interview?  Don't forget to be ready for when they ask if _you_ have any questions
<mhz> arkan0x, hey
<mhz> arkan0x, puedes el lunes al as 15:00 ver el hotel con nosotros?
<mhz> arkan0x, debo irme inmediatamente :(
<mhz> arkan0x, see ya
<mhz> bye all guys
<pitux> hello
<pitux> can any helpme?
<pygi> pitux, whats issue?
<pitux> i try install edubuntu 6.06
<pitux> but, the installation dead in "Building LTSP chroot"
<pitux> i check the disk before
<pitux> and the disk is good
<pitux> the screen lost
<pitux> what can be?
<pitux> sorry, my english is very basic
<pitux> are there any form for avoid "Building LTSP chroot"?
<pygi> try CTRL+C
<pygi> or you could go for expert installation (not sure if there you can avoid it)
<pitux> ok i try inmediatly
<pitux> thanks
<pitux> can install edubuntu from ubuntu?
<pygi> you can: sudo apt-get install edubuntu-desktop
<pygi> you have to do some manual configuring then tho
<LaserJock> pitux: what do you want to do with Edubuntu?
<pitux> install edubuntu, but the installation don't result
<pitux> ok no problem 
<pitux> thanks
<LaserJock> do you want to use LTSP?
<pitux> no
<pitux> i install edubuntu in my laptop
<crimsun> hmm...god__ never replied to my question
<pitux> i am interesting in edu apps
<LaserJock> then you could just install Ubuntu
<pitux> ok
<pitux> are the same edu-apps?
<pygi> pitux, or install edubuntu workstation
<LaserJock> if you want the Edubuntu look and default apps then install edubuntu-desktop after you get Ubuntu installed
<pitux> cook
<pygi> pitux, some info about edubuntu
<LaserJock> pitux: Edubuntu and Ubuntu grab apps from the same repositories, they just differ in what apps are installed by default
<pitux> the system base is install
<pygi> wiki.ubuntu.com/HowToCookEdubuntu/Chapters
<pygi> night all
<pitux> i try install edubuntu workstation
<bddebian> Hello
<RobinShepheard> hello all
<LaserJock> hi RobinShepheard 
<bddebian> Hello RobinShepheard
<RobinShepheard> You will have to forgive me, I am a bit new to all this IRC lark
<LaserJock> hehe, no problem
<RobinShepheard> I realise that this may possibly be the wrong place to ask this, but is edubuntu just a short cut to ubuntu with the full ltsp environment, obviously give or take a few apps
<LaserJock> more-or-less yeah
<LaserJock> you could install Ubuntu and then later do LTSP
<LaserJock> but it is easier to set up via the Edubuntu install
<RobinShepheard> I did guess as much
<RobinShepheard> will look at dropping a few of the installed apps then
<RobinShepheard> it is for a stockbrokers, and they dont really need things like the periodic table :)
<LaserJock> oh, yeah
<LaserJock> but you want LTSP?
<RobinShepheard> well, my reasoning may be a bit flawed but is as follows
<RobinShepheard> we have various offices around the country that we provide apps and services to
<RobinShepheard> We use citrix to provide then to everybody, whether they are in the main office or not
<RobinShepheard> we have a few old 800mhz boxes lurking in the store and I thought that I may just move a couple of the branches to ltsp
<RobinShepheard> I then just have to worry about the main ltsp server in each branch, rather than each desktop, so less work to keep it all upto date
<LaserJock> hmm, I don't think LTSP will work outside a local network, but I could be wrong
<LaserJock> oh, let me reread that
<RobinShepheard> nah it will just be working on the local lans in each office
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> so then you only need to take care of one computer at each branch, right?
<RobinShepheard> also gives them less to balls up when they try to muck around
<RobinShepheard> well that is my thinking
<LaserJock> cool
<RobinShepheard> once citrix is installed on the ltsp server everyone would have access to it
<RobinShepheard> and there would be no config of the desktops, bar setting ten to boot from lan
<RobinShepheard> doh them to boot from lan even
<LaserJock> hmm, sounds like a good project
<LaserJock> I haven't had a chance to try LTSP out myself yet
<RobinShepheard> well, it is more a case of if it works it is less work for me
<RobinShepheard> I set up a dapper version test server in the office this afternoon and have had a chance to boot 1 client from it
<RobinShepheard> VERY sweet
<RobinShepheard> works like a dream if you ignore the path in the piccy in the docs when you have to set up dhcp
<RobinShepheard> there is a run dialog box and it has the wrong path in it, you have to use the one in the text
<RobinShepheard> not in the picture
<LaserJock> ah
<RobinShepheard> I am thinking of dropping a line to someone about that but have to double check who
<LaserJock> RobinShepheard: just send it to the edubuntu-devel mailing list
<RobinShepheard> ahh could do, I was going to find the address of Jonathan Carter on the website
<RobinShepheard> he has signed all the pages
<LaserJock> yeah, he would get it either way :-)
<RobinShepheard> despite having used linux for quite a long time this is really the first distro which has really drawn my interest in helping
<RobinShepheard> not sure wether that is a good thing or not
<RobinShepheard> well for the distro that is ;)
<LaserJock> RobinShepheard: same story with me, I used Gentoo, Fedora, SuSE, etc. but Ubuntu was really the first one where is felt like I could contribute and make a difference
<LaserJock> the community is really awesome
<RobinShepheard> lol yeah I have had a similar list, gentoo, redhat, fedora, suse and so on.
<RobinShepheard> yeah the community does seem to be a major point of the distro almost
<LaserJock> well, it almost has to be. there aren't all that many people paid to work on it :-)
<RobinShepheard> yeah true enough
<RobinShepheard> I think I really need to look into how I can help more. 
<RobinShepheard> I am not a programmer really so I cant contribute that way much
<LaserJock> well there is lots to choose from
<LaserJock> documentation, packaging, marketing, artwork, bug fixing/triaging
<LaserJock> tell me what you like to do and I can find you a team to join :-)
<RobinShepheard> that is the main problem really, where do I start
<RobinShepheard> I can probably rule out artwork and packaging as art & design is not a strong point
<LaserJock> packaging is making the source packages that get made into .debs
<LaserJock> it is where I got started
<RobinShepheard> doh, my mistake
<LaserJock> you just need pretty decent knowledge of linux, but you don't have to be a programmer or anything
<RobinShepheard> how much of that requires any programming knowledge?
<RobinShepheard> because I am a little lacking in that department
<LaserJock> no problemo
<LaserJock> are you currently running Dapper?
<LaserJock> non-Edubuntu Dapper?
<RobinShepheard> Dapper Ubuntu on my laptop
<LaserJock> ok, go to System -> Help -> System Documentation I believe it is
<RobinShepheard> ahh I got it
<LaserJock> I wrote a packaging guide (with the help of other community members)
<RobinShepheard> The one I am currently reading???
<LaserJock> should be yes
<RobinShepheard> sweet
<LaserJock> so that has a bit on packaging. A good place to hang out for that is #ubuntu-motu . They look after the Universe apps and are generally a cool bunch
<RobinShepheard> ahh may have just hit a slight snag at the mo, cant say I really know anything about make
<LaserJock> hmm, ok
<LaserJock> have you every built an app from source, i.e. something like ./configure && make && make install ?
<RobinShepheard> yeah
<LaserJock> well, then you've used it at least ;-)
<LaserJock> anyway, if you don't want to dive into packaging just yet
<RobinShepheard> yeah true, but the config options are a little beyond me at the mo
<RobinShepheard> I am a sysadmin, I program, if you can call it that in perl
<LaserJock> well, you can still package you will just need to learn some stuff :-)
<LaserJock> if you don't want to dive into that you could try bug fixing/triaging
<RobinShepheard> doesn't sound like a bad option
<LaserJock> #ubuntu-bugs and wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad and wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay are good places for that
<LaserJock> you will often deal with MOTUs and packaging there too, whenever you want
<LaserJock> and if you want to write documentation there is always the Documentation Team (#ubuntu-doc and wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumenationTeam)
<LaserJock> and of course there is all of that in Edubuntu too
<LaserJock> people can float pretty freely between teams and we generally know each other fairly well
<RobinShepheard> I think probably the best thing now is to go away and read a bit from the addresses and go from there
<RobinShepheard> documentation is possible a quite interesting place to go
<RobinShepheard> as I am possibly just about to implement a system across multiple offices
<RobinShepheard> may be useful to some one else
<LaserJock> yeah, the edubuntu team is working on an Edubuntu cookbook
<RobinShepheard> yeah, I did see some of that
<LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowToCookEdubuntu/Chapters?highlight=%28Edubuntu%29
<LaserJock> and the documenation team has a server setup guide (in that same help system as the Packaging Guide) that could always use help as well
<RobinShepheard> thanks a lot for your help
<LaserJock> you'll soon find that there is way more to do than you could have imagined and then the problem is limiting yourself
<RobinShepheard> I am afraid I have to scoot and collect my better half from town, she just rang
<LaserJock> hehe, mine is coming to pick me up soon too
<RobinShepheard> lol, guess I got the short straw
<LaserJock> :-)
<RobinShepheard> just finished a night on the lash with work colleages and needs to get home.
<RobinShepheard> still better than having to get a taxi
<LaserJock> sure
<RobinShepheard> got to go any way, thanks again
<LaserJock> no problem
<LaserJock> glad you stopped by
<RobinShepheard> so am I, never know, if you are really unlikely I may turn up again :)
<bddebian> unlikely? :-)
<RobinShepheard> doh unlucky
<bddebian> :-)
<LaserJock> hehe
<bddebian> They can't get any unluckier than having me around ;-)
<RobinShepheard> lol, see everyone around bye bye
<LaserJock> stop it bddebian, you know we love you :-)
<HedgeMage> ogra: around?
<crimsun> if he's sane, he's either asleep or drunk
<HedgeMage> LOL
<crimsun> or getting ponies.
<HedgeMage> darnit
* HedgeMage gives crimsun a momentary puzzled look, then decides she's better off not knowing
<bddebian> Dang another GIRL? :-)
<HedgeMage> rofl
<crimsun> HedgeMage: everyone wants a [my little]  pony, stolen from various Web sites, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, ...
<HedgeMage> ahh
<crimsun> so when we say something sucks because it has no ponies, it's obvious ;)
<crimsun> bddebian: sheesh, don't you have three of 'em?
<bddebian> 4 counting my wife :-)
<bddebian> But it's not like we have a lot in #hurd ;-P
<crimsun> yeah, I'm not gonna go there
<crimsun> (err, # women, not hurd)
<Burgundavia> hey Amaranth
<Burgundavia> have you and ogra nailed down a time?
<Amaranth> hey
<Amaranth> nope
<HedgeMage> ahh, life in here again
<HedgeMage> :P
<LaserJock> nope, you're talking to ghosts
<HedgeMage> lol
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: can you do something for me?
<LaserJock> what?
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: could you pull down http://www.freeverse.com/bumpercar2/ and get a full series of screenshots for me?
<LaserJock> what kind of shots would you like?
<Burgundavia> the configuration dialogs and main window
<LaserJock> do you need it now?
<Burgundavia> sooner is better
<LaserJock> k, on it
<Burgundavia> excllent
<Burgundavia> anselmolsm and myself are chatting UI right now
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: can you handle .tiff files?
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: sure, email them to me
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: you sent that yet?
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: http://chem.unr.edu/~mantha/ubuntu/bc_screenshots.tar.gz
<LaserJock> it was easier to put it up than email it
<LaserJock> I did 11 shots showing prefs and visiting a couple sites
<Burgundavia> very cool, thanks LaserJock
<LaserJock> got it?
<LaserJock> ok, I'm heading to bed now that I've done something with my day ;-)
<Burgundavia> yep, I did
<LaserJock> great, hope it helps. If you need more ping me and I'll try to do it tomorrow
<Burgundavia> yep, it does
<irvin> anyone having trouble with checking for cd defects?
<irvin> md5 checksum matches but cd check fails
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* HedgeMage peeks in and wonders if anyone is awake
<nettogrof> hi :)
<HedgeMage> hi there :)
* HedgeMage goes to put the tea kettle on, but will be back shortly
<nettogrof> hi HedgeMage how's it going?
<nettogrof> oh orite hb
<HedgeMage> back
<HedgeMage> :)
<HedgeMage> not bad, trying to think of a short coding project I can knock out this weekend
<nettogrof> ah. to do with what?
<tuxtas2> Hi all, trying to set up ltsp on Edubuntu default, but clients are booting but keyboard and mouse freeze. Any ideas?
<HedgeMage> tuxtas2: sorry, I'm about the only Edubuntu-er that isn't good with LTSP stuff :(
<HedgeMage> tuxtas2: have you tried the mailing list? it's sometimes easier than guessing who'll be on IRC during a weekend
<tuxtas2> kewl, Ill have to have a look, where is the members sign up page?
<HedgeMage> nettogrof: basically, I have a potential employer who I think is going to ask for a code sample.  Most of what I've worked on lately is F/OSS with multiple authors, so it'd be like... yeah, I wrote this class and lines 14-27 of this file, and, oh, lines 19, 122, 673 and 1427 of this one, and...
<HedgeMage> So, I'm trying to think of a useful project that can be done in a weekend :P
<HedgeMage> tuxtas2: hang on I'll grab you a link
<tuxtas2> ty
<HedgeMage> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel and https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-users :)
<nettogrof> HedgeMage: You using edubuntu?
<HedgeMage> nettogrof: on my lappy, yes
<nettogrof> HedgeMage: Ah cool.
<HedgeMage> :)
<lucasvo> http://thedailywtf.com/forums/thread/74660.aspx
<lucasvo> *lol*
<HedgeMage> lol
* HedgeMage ponders
<blue-frog> Hi, using xchat-gnome is there a way to log automatically channels conversation as it is possible when you use "normal" xchat?
<HedgeMage> Yes, but I'm not sure where you find the option... I've been using irssi for ages
<blue-frog> rHah if only GNOME was not removing easy links/options from their apps...
<juliux> morning
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<pawsilver> Help my P4 won't load edubuntu??
<pygi> pawsilver, more info?
<pawsilver> hi pygi , Its a Asus MB has serial ATA HDD.  I put the Edubuntu CD in it loads the live version then when I click the instal icon it starts and goes through the screens until the partitions and hangs.  It does not see the hard drive in the live version either so it seems as it cannot read my ATA HHD
<pygi> ugh, sata discs ;-/
<spacey> i quite like SATA
<pawsilver> So now it likes I have to buy Microsoft :(
<pygi> spacey, indeed, but they don't always work
<spacey> its probably not the disk but the controller?
<pawsilver> If they don't work I'm stuffed
<pygi> spacey, yup, controller
<spacey> you should at least check what chip is on the board
<spacey> and file a bug
<pawsilver> How do I sort out the controller?
<spacey> if it really doesn't work out with the controller, a quick solution would be to buy a 10 euro pci sata controller that works.
<spacey> pawsilver: if you type `lspci` in a terminal
<spacey> it should be listed
<spacey> and second you could look into dmesg to see if you see anything detected there
<pawsilver> What terminal?
<spacey> on the livecd
<spacey> the "Dos prompt"
<pawsilver> ok I'll try
<pawsilver> What do I do after that?
<spacey> you can try to look for similar problems in launchpad
<spacey> and if you can't find it file a bug
<spacey> i have to go now:)
<spacey> visitors
<spacey> gl
<pawsilver> ok thanx
<bddebian> Hey folks
<ogra> hi bddebian 
<bddebian> Heya ogra
<highvoltage> hey bddebian 
<bddebian> Hi highvoltage
<bddebian> highvoltage: Were you the one telling me about ubuntu-libre?
<highvoltage> bddebian: yep
<highvoltage> bddebian: how difficult would it really be to build a 100% free ubuntu CD? if you just build a cd and only use the 'main' source, then it should be an 'ubuntu-libre' CD, shouldn't it?
<ogra> you'd have to drop l-r-m
<ogra> thats the only nonfree stuff we ship
<highvoltage> l-r-m?
<bddebian> highvoltage: That shouldn't be difficult no
<bddebian> linux-restricted-modules
<highvoltage> ah, right. i figured it out just before you said it.
<highvoltage> i was about to ask about that :)
<highvoltage> ogra: do you know much about troubleshooting 3d graphics. i'm really struggling to get it working again on my laptop and the docs/#ubuntu couldn't help me either :/
<ogra> card ?
<ogra> i heard ati has dropped some support from fglrx with the recent version
<highvoltage> ati card. radeon 9000 on thinkpad t42.
<highvoltage> it does seem that the driver doesn't support my card.
<highvoltage> the thing is, it did have 3D with the default installation with the 'ati' driver. but now i can't get 3D to work again with it :/
<ogra> hmm, that'd be a fabbione question ...
<highvoltage> i think i'll try to bug him a bit when he's around
<ogra> yep
* highvoltage is tempted to say something about women and logig, but might be thrown off a cliff </joke>
<ogra> heh
<highvoltage> ogra: more than 1500 hits from distrowatch today, hey
<ogra> :)
<highvoltage> seems like our top searches revolve around content filtering
<ogra> yep as i always say, Amaranth wil save our asses :)
<bddebian> Hmm :-)
<highvoltage> :)
<ogra> hey, we climbed 6 places on the monthly distrowatch stats in the last 3 days
<ogra> err 4 places, sorry
<highvoltage> for the last 7 days, we've had more hits than Xandros :)
<ogra> hehe
* ogra wonders what tinysofa is 
<highvoltage> it's another RHEL clone
<ogra> yes
<ogra> i'm astonished its a server distro
<ogra> i'd have expected a mediacenter thingie or something with this name
<highvoltage> i'm astonished that someone would use something like that, when they can use ubuntu-server and get supported updates, etc for free/easy.
<highvoltage> on tinysopha/centos/whitebox, you have to wait for the community to take the sources from the RH site and recompile them
<ogra> tell that to the CTOs of this world
<highvoltage> that's what i'm doing :P
<blue-frog> if i remasterize a livecd with language and add/remove apps, when I install it from ubiquity will my remasterised cd be installed or ubiquity is following a fixed schem?
<blue-frog> scheme*
<ogra> it uses what d-i uses ... preseed files
<ogra> ubiquity is onl a debian-installer frontend
<blue-frog> humph what I feared ty
<blue-frog> oh but then I can change the preseed file?
<ogra> sure
<blue-frog> ah better, lots of know for the non-dev I am but not impossible, good news..
<blue-frog> lots of work*
<blue-frog> would you have a handy command to find out all packages installed, pls?
<ogra> look at the .list files in the CD download directory
<blue-frog> ok ty but i meant in a console on a running OS
<ogra> have a look at germinate
<blue-frog> ty
<ogra> but that requires some understanding of seeds
<blue-frog> ah :(
<highvoltage> s_: hey, what's up?
<highvoltage> edubuntu distrowatch count for last 24h up to 1600.
<highvoltage> 629 hits from heise. wow.
<ogra> :)
<highvoltage> 85 from google searches.
<highvoltage> 100 from http://barrapunto.com/
<highvoltage> the most come from the ubuntu sites though
<highvoltage> 7492- http://www.ubuntu.com/
<highvoltage> 3226- http://www.ubuntu.com/download
<highvoltage> 1533- http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop
<highvoltage> 1011- http://www.ubuntu.com/server
<highvoltage> 972- http://www.xubuntu.org/
<highvoltage> and that's just for the last 24h :)
<highvoltage> 57 from jsgotangco's blog :)
<highvoltage> 55 from fridge
<ogra> heh
<highvoltage> 42 from wikipedia
<highvoltage> 33 from slashdot.jp
<ogra> is the dvd link in the downloads page ?
<highvoltage> 33 from google.fr and 32 from google.de
* highvoltage checks
<highvoltage> it only points to http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/6.06/, which only contains cd images
<highvoltage> where's the correct location for the DVD images?
<highvoltage> heh. 26 hits from http://spaces.msn.com/tomwng/
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/releases/6.06/release/
<juliux> ogra, can you write something there? http://forum.ubuntuusers.de/topic/33812/
<ogra> juliux, i have no clue about KDE bugs or how much manpower there is in the KDE community to fix them
<juliux> ogra, not about kde bugs
<juliux> ogra, something why it good if you report a bug
<ogra> well, its the only way to really get your problem solved ... but i'm not really after having a forum discussion
<juliux> ok
<ogra> (apart from not having an account)
<highvoltage> goodnight, #edubuntu
<pygi> night highvoltage 
<highvoltage> night pygi!
<dm> Hello, what language is spoken here?
<pygi> dm, english ;)
<dm> I'm trying to set some kernel options for the PXE clients. I'm using ubuntu's ltsp server implementation 0.87. In a wiki entry (http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/NFS#Solution_when_using_PXE) I found the line to append.
<dm>  But _my_ file /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/pxelinux.cfg/default has only one line: "DEFAULT vmlinuz ro initrd=initrd.img quiet splash". If I add "MOPTS=nolock,ro,wsize=2048,rsize=2048,proto=tcp" the clients ignore this and mount their nfs root fs via udp with 32k blocksize.
<dm> Can anyone tell me if the syntax has changed or how to get it work?
<lucasvo> dm: edubuntu doesn't support the LTSP way of ltsp :)
<pygi> lucasvo, what a statement :P
<lucasvo> we use the muecow implementation
<lucasvo> pygi: well, how would you call it?
<pygi> lucasvo, none, just joking :) relax :)
<lucasvo> yeah, I am chilling, don't worry :)
<dm> So how can I tell the clients (the ones with only 10 Mbit connection) to use smaller blocksize or even tcp?
<lucasvo> I would ask in #ltps
<dm> Just did that ;-)
<dm> They only know the way describes in the wiki.
<ogra> dm, see /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/nfs
<ogra> you need to set NFSOPTS, not MOPTS
<dm> ogra: What is MOPTS then?
<ogra> probably an option used in initrd driven systems, initramfst respects NFSOPTS as you can see in the bootscript
<dm> Ok, I'll try that (tomorrow).
<ogra> dm, "I'm using ubuntu's ltsp server implementation 0.87 (that's AFAIK what LTSP 4.2 is based upon)"
<ogra> dm, they are two completely separate developments
<dm> Oh, then I misunderstood something ...
<dm> ogra, On http://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/Edubuntufaq I found "Beezy bringt eine eigene Implementation (ltsp 0.58) mit. Ltsp.org hat die breezy Implementierung fr sich in die entwicklungs Version ltsp 4.2 bernommen und arbeitet aktiv and der weiterentwicklung fr dapper mit."
<ogra> dm, autsch, das stimmt so nich
<lucasvo> fatal falsch
<dm> Mmh, das wei ich jetzt auch.
<ogra> naja, der letzte part stimmt
<lucasvo> es ist nicht mehr kompatibel zu einander
<ogra> vllt sollten wir nach #edubuntu-de gehn :)
<lucasvo> jo
* HedgeMage peeks in
<HedgeMage> hi LaserJock 
<pygi> Hey HedgeMage :)
<finch> hi to all just loaded edubuntu on my laptop benq 5500u all seem to work except the onbroad wireless
<finch> seem to find it ok try to config find the router but no traffic is received?
#edubuntu 2006-06-04
<HedgeMage> grr missed him
<LaserJock> hi HedgeMage 
* LaserJock runs to leave ;-)
<HedgeMage> hi LaserJock 
<HedgeMage> :P
<purserj> question without notice
<purserj> is there any reason why edubuntu's ship-it only does x86?
<HedgeMage> purserj: because this is our first release using ship-it and we were only allowed to offer one CD image... in the future, if demand is high enough, we hope to offer others.
<purserj> hmm
<jsgotangco> that's correct
<purserj> the only reason I ask is that ppc Macs still form a large percentage of machines in the australian school system where I am looking at demoing
<jsgotangco> purserj: that's true, we're looking into addressing that in the next release
<purserj> sweet
<jsgotangco> edubuntu will be supporting ppc for quite a while for sure
<purserj> Yup.
<jsgotangco> does the school system mandatorily use macs?
<jsgotangco> (before)
<jsgotangco> or is it dependent pero state
<purserj> Apple's worked itself into the various education departments in Australia pretty well
<jsgotangco> ahh
<purserj> Plus many schools don't have the funding to be able to upgrade their machines, hell my sons school had to have a fund raiser to build a shelter over the assembly area
<jsgotangco> i see
* jsgotangco is not sure if its possible atm to do a ppc chroot within an x86/amd64 server
<Owie> purserj: what part of Oz are you from?
<Owie> Brisbanite here :-P
<purserj> Dapto just south od Sydney here, but Brisbane born
<Owie> ah yeah. I do IT support at a local special school up here and have just stumbled upon edubuntu
<HedgeMage> goodnight, all
<HedgeMage> I'm off to bed
<Owie> but unfortunately I dont think it will be suitable as the kids there use a lot of specialised (probably Windows-only) software :(
* HedgeMage waves
<purserj> night
<tony_> Hi, is there a package (or set of) that will install the LTSP stuff onto a Kubuntu server?
<lucasvo> tony_: yes, edubuntu-server
<lucasvo> http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?keywords=edubuntu-server&searchon=names&subword=1&version=dapper&release=all
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<salleschool> Hello
<highvoltage> hello
<salleschool> I've installed edubuntu 6.06
<salleschool> I can open thin client
<salleschool> but when I try to login in nothing happens
<highvoltage> does it kick you back to the login screen?
<highvoltage> if you have changed the IP address on the server, you need to run...
<salleschool> yes
<highvoltage> egh... i keep forgetting the command. it's something like update-ssh-keys
<highvoltage> just a few secs... i'm booting up my ltsp server
<salleschool> ok
<ogra> sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys
<highvoltage> that's it :)
<salleschool> thanks
<salleschool> I'm going to try it again
<salleschool> Yeah, it's working
<salleschool> ok, another one
<salleschool> is there any programme for configure the thin clients?
<salleschool> I've got problem with one screen
<salleschool> It's must be the resolution
<salleschool> or the vga
<ogra> that happens usually if the monitors DDC BIOS doesnt report its values right, is that a very old monitor ?
<salleschool> maybe
<salleschool> I'm going to change the monitor, 
<salleschool> so i'll know if that's the problem or the vga
<ogra> and the vga card will nneed at least 2M video memory to get a decent resolution at 24bit colordepth
<salleschool> Yes, the vga is an ATI one with 8mb
<highvoltage> salleschool: if you want to force a colourdepth  or resolution on that client, you can do it in the lts.conf file: http://www.edubuntu.org/ThinClientConfig
<ogra> if changing the monitor doesnt work and its the vga card, try setting the colordept to 16bit
<highvoltage> you'll need something like X_MODE_0 = 800x600 and X_COLOR_DEPTH = 16
<ogra> highvoltage, wrong :)
<ogra> X_MODE isnt respected at all ....
<highvoltage> ah right, that explains why we took it out :)
<ogra> you can only influence it by setting hsync and vertrefresh
<highvoltage> eek
* highvoltage doesn't really know how to do that
<ogra> get the values for the monitor and add them in lts.conf :)
<ogra> its not harder than setting X_MODE if you have the values
<ogra> but i agree, its a pity that our xserver doesnt allo preseeding that value
<ogra> i hope to address that with mdz in edgy, we plan to rewrite the X autodetection (or at least start with it, i dont belive thats possible to be done in one release)
<highvoltage> that would be nice. since it might allow for a smoother startup as well.
<salleschool> ogra> its not harder than setting X_MODE if you have the values ?
<salleschool> How?
<salleschool> I haven't changed the monitor
<salleschool> I think it's a lot of work and I must use that one
<salleschool> because it working under other system
<ogra> you set them in lts.conf in a specific section for the client (as you would do for X_MODE)
<salleschool> The monitor es a SAMTRON
<salleschool> 50-60hz
<salleschool> so, instead of 800x600 I must write 50-60hz?
<ogra> nope
<salleschool> :-(
<ogra> you need to set the values for X_HORZSYNC and X_VERTREFRESH instead of setting X_MODE
<ogra> but first you need to find the values your monitor is capable tzo do
<ogra> 50-60Hz is only one of them
<salleschool> and the other?
<ogra> its your monitor, no idea
<ogra> usually these values are in the technical data of the handbook
<ogra> google might also be helpful if you search for the exact model name and number
<salleschool> that's a good idea
<salleschool> I'm going to try
<ogra> you set the values like X_HORZSYNC = 34-120 (omit things like Hz or Mhz)
<mhz> me?
<mhz> :D
<ogra> :P
<mhz> * Good News: Congregacion Maria Auxiliadora -a catholic congregation and keeper of many schools in Chile, has announced its decision to migrate/implement computer labs mainly with Gnu/Linux into all his schools all over Chile (over 10 schools, about 3.000 students!)
<mhz> of course, they will receive a special invitation to FET Chile :p and get a special Edubuntu demo
<ogra> all: in case the next person comes in asking "how do i install ltsp on (k)ubuntu ?" the answer is here, please point people to: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall (and no ITS NOT ENOUGH to just install the edubuntu-server package to get ltsp running)
<mhz> hehehhe
<ogra> just to avoid all the breakage out there, please use that wikipage if helping, thanks 
<mhz> ogra: roger that!
<ogra> thanks :)
<mhz> ogra: that is for all 'falvours' but Edubuntu?
<ogra> yes
<mhz> (just to make sure my english understanding was ok)
<ogra> and xubuntu if you instll in ltsp mode
<mhz> okis
* mhz adds it to his Moin QuickLinks
<ogra> the ltsp setup for edubuntu and xubuntu happens in the CD installer
<ogra> if you just install edubuntu-server the complete setup is missing
<ogra> (on a ubuntu or kubuntu i mean indeed)
<mhz> oh, okis, you got me confused for about 5 secs
<ogra> well, i saw you, lucasvo, and highvoltage suggesting to people they should just install edubuntu-server ... that will give them a hard time, since they dont know how to set it up :)
<mhz> ogra: but then, if xubuntu ltsp happens in the installer.. oh, you mean... "if you want LTSP working from xubuntu fresh install, use the xubuntu-install .iso" ?
<ogra> xubuntu has a installoption with ltsp
<mhz> ogra: I am guilty as charged
<ogra> in the CD menu
<highvoltage> ogra: i never suggested that!
<ogra> i dont want to blame anyone :)
<mhz> hehehe
<ogra> highvoltage, you did, even in #ltsp :)
<mhz> it is ok, we'll all die someday, highvoltage 
<highvoltage> i honestly don't remember that... but i can let it go...
<highvoltage> mhz: on a long enough timeline, the survival rate of anything is zero
<ogra> two or three days ago, i read it in the backlog
<mhz> ogra: so, in the xubuntu case, (this was my confussion), users still need to be pointed to https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall ?
<mhz> highvoltage: heheh, lol
<ogra> mhz, if they didnt use the ltsp option during install, yes
<highvoltage> ogra: i still don't believe you. someone must have heavily drugged me or something if i did say that, since i can't think why i would have said that.
<mhz> jsgotangco: when is due date for newsletter?
<highvoltage> i might have said ltsp-server-standalone...
<ogra> highvoltage, it might also have been not edubuntu-server but ltsp-server, but you didnt tell him to run ltsp-build-client 
<ogra> yes
<ogra> that was the moment where i thought about creating that wikipage ...
<ogra> (i'm tired as well to type in the two sentences you need to set it up though)
<ogra> so that wikipage should help :)
<jsgotangco> mhz: ?
<jsgotangco> mhz: ahh
<mhz> ogra: yeah, sure. I rephrase your words then: ONLY if you are using xubuntu (ltsp option) or edubuntu install, you'll endup with a sane ltsp install. IF you use any 'standard' flavor install, you need to still look into https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall 
<jsgotangco> mhz: thursday
<ogra> mhz, its a wiki :) feel free
<mhz> jsgotangco: hi, and thx. 
<jsgotangco> mhz: but there's not much action after release so it might be short saying "hey we're out download me now"
<mhz> jsgotangco: hmmm, how about including some tips already living on wiki pages about Edubuntu? Like, for example, the EdubuntuViaNetBoot
<salleschool> I'm still here, looking for the  X_VERTREFRESH
<jsgotangco> mhz: that would be a good idea
<mhz> jsgotangco: I already tested that installation method for Dapper
<ogra> there is a wikipage called EdubuntuViaNetBoot ??
<mhz> heheh, yeah
<jsgotangco> does it work?
* mhz is updating the info now
<mhz> yup
* jsgotangco is in xubuntu but is not convinced
<mhz> with dapper, 100%
* mhz is forced to use xubuntu-desktop on top of edubuntu-server on his thin laptop
<ogra> jsgotangco, thats waht i suspect whats missing
<ogra> ?
<jsgotangco> i feel its like a gnome wannabee
<jsgotangco> heh
* jsgotangco would have preferred it to be the default xfce
<ogra> yeah, but does it everything you are used to onn the desktop ?
<jsgotangco> it doesn't have OOo even though the install still ate 1GB+ default
<ogra> ooo is on the CD
<ogra> optional
<jsgotangco> but 1.3GB?
<ogra> i think ubuntu-base takes already 700 or 800 M
<jsgotangco> it seems to hvae filled up with gnome stuff to be directly compatible
<ogra> i thought they rewrote all the gnome stuff ....
<jsgotangco> or reusable
<ogra> we have such ugly things like evince-gtk through that
<mhz> indeed
<jsgotangco> mhz: i dunno im not convinced with this
<mhz> it was meant to be user-friendly and ready for ubuntu-end users
<jsgotangco> mhz: some elements are fast as expected like thunar but that's an app
<mhz> jsgotangco: sure, they said "let's not convince jsgotangco!"
<mhz> :p
<jsgotangco> lol
<mhz> jsgotangco: yeah, I did feel/remember XFCE default was faster
<mhz> but, XFCE default was not convincing enough for users like my dad... and that is a big issue
<jsgotangco> hence the gnome-like hack?
<mhz> esp. when you have old machines for windows extreme end-users (just double click users)
<mhz> jsgotangco: i guess
<mhz> my dad could use GNOME (breezy) for a while and it was stil a shocking experience. ( I believe I suffered more than he did :D )
<mhz> It was a horryfing experience everytime he asked for "my support"
<jsgotangco> mhz: probably because lack of time, even the menu wasn't merged...xfce and gnome settings are separate menu entries
<mhz> esp. considering he was sure his laptop was running lot slower (indeed, because he uses lot of office files)
<jsgotangco> making it feel KDE'sh
<mhz> jsgotangco: hmm, good point
<jsgotangco> Network isn't corrent, should be Internet since it shows net apps heh
<jsgotangco> s/corrent/correct
<mhz> jsgotangco: however, for my dad, xubuntu should run faster than his experience with ubuntu default
<jsgotangco> it sure does load a bit faster
<mhz> jsgotangco: re menus/ you are right. I'll pass it on nomed (Daniele Favara)
<jsgotangco> it could be merged or have xfce settings as a submenu under system
<mhz> however, so far, xubuntu seems best option for highvoltage and me (AFAIK) if we need to set an edubuntu-lighter option, even when I know, the best performance I have had, is still under Fluxbox :(
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> probably a little more hack in the menu structure will make it cleaner
<highvoltage> fluxbox isn't very userfriendly, or even featureful though :/
<mhz> Sometimes, I just wish I had modern hardware (and bootable media laptop!!!) but on the other hand, I feel that if I did, I wouln't be "forced" to help those people with older hardware.. so I just relax and deal with it ;)
<highvoltage> mhz: does fluxbox even have a tool for mounting a usb disk?
<ogra> highvoltage, nautilus :)
<mhz> highvoltage: yeah, you can use some apps. for that, indeed
<highvoltage> yeah but running nautilus under fluxbox defeats the purpose :)
<mhz> highvoltage: and no gnome dependant
* jsgotangco is not convinced for people using fluxbox
<highvoltage> the current way that the world is creating computers is non-sustanable
<spacey> they have `mount` right
<highvoltage> we use over 250 tons worth of material to build computers every single day
<ogra> spacey, hooray, and xterm :)
<mhz> highvoltage: however, as you said, unless we put LOTS of efforts on setting Fluxbox, users may still feel xubuntu is closer to their concept of user friendly
<spacey> ogra: yeh:)
<jsgotangco> but the design goals of fluxbox ain't ordinary users
<highvoltage> which means that, 3 to 5 years from now, those will have to be trashed in similar ammounts
<mhz> highvoltage: the prob. i see for fluxbox is that it will require constant "be there" tweaking ans setting.
<highvoltage> xfce has done a great job of getting all the 'minimum' features in so far, while keeping it small. it's still not as mature as gnome or kde, but they're certainly getting better.
<highvoltage> mhz: with enough 3rd party desktop and launcher tools, i can see that it might be friendly enough. i'd still not be comfortable with it though :)
<jsgotangco> no no fluxbox plesae
<jsgotangco> don't even think about it
<jsgotangco> xfce is good enough
<salleschool> Thanks a lot everybody
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: mhz is already doing :)
<salleschool> I must go
<mhz> highvoltage: OF COURSE I do agree with you. Subtainable development won't happen if we keep on consuming new hardware and getting rid of "prvious-still-very-usable" one.
<highvoltage> bye salleschool. drop by again :)
<ogra> salleschool, did you find the values
<ogra> ?
<salleschool> nope
<ogra> try to find the handbook 
<salleschool> I'll try later
<mhz> salleschool: maybe email ML
<salleschool> now I have another problem
<mhz> salleschool: someone might already have same issues
<salleschool> in another pc i can login in but after that
<salleschool> i obtenig only a logo
<salleschool> the green one with the world
<ogra> mhz, he has the solution already, he's just missing the hsync/vrefresh values for his monitor
<salleschool> Yes, I have the solution for the one qith the samtron monitor
<ogra> salleschool, did you install sabayon by any chance ? 
<salleschool> sabayin?
<salleschool> sorry
<salleschool> sabayon?
<ogra> ok, seems you didnt
<ogra> :)
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: i got some ubuntu laptop stickers from a friend i thought they were as think as the usual laptop stickers hehehe but nice
<highvoltage> :)
<salleschool> may I install sabayon?
<mhz> jsgotangco: Fluxbos is inevitablity (or "we can't help the fact of...") the lighter desktop and best performance I have tried for edubuntu-server. However, as I said, if it is to provide a solution for many users... I still doub it, though DamnSmall linux has done great job in presentation. So far, xubuntu is my 1st choice, Wmaker my second, Fluxbox my third. But the last 2 options will require too much work beacuse everytime a user wants to tweak or change d
<mhz> efaults, they may not work as friendly as xfce or gnome.
<jsgotangco> mhz: windowmaker goes way way down in usability for most users
<mhz> ogra: yup, but maybe other users have had same monitor issue for same monitor model :)
<ogra> salleschool, forget about sabayon for now ... look in ~/.xsession-errors of the user you tried to log in with
<ogra> (the one that didnt get past the splash screen)
<salleschool> ok, defintly my wife is calling
<salleschool> see you later
<ogra> ciao
<salleschool> bye, and thanks
<mhz> jsgotangco: i know. I know, believe me. But for a school, IF teachers want something real light they can use and need no further settings, jus the ones we provide, "maybe" it is an option we can consider. Why? because they may not have enough 'horse-power' to implement xubuntu. still.
<mhz> jsgotangco: "we provide" = they say what they need and how they need it, we do provide.
<jsgotangco> mhz: i still don't get it, its a server, provide a powerful server and gnome will run on it nonetheless or even xfce..something more lighter is asking too much imo...as software development doesn't always consider old hardware harsh reality
<ogra> mhz, we wont support 386 servers with 16Mb ram ... so there is no real need for fluxbox, if someone wants fluxbox he can always install it from universe
<mhz> that is why I do not like the idea of wmaker or fluxbox because it will require we provide 'glove-made' solutions to each school school
<mhz> ogra: jsgotangco: guys, I have said I like the xubuntu idea better even when it is not as fast as XFCE default :)
<jsgotangco> mhz: how do you think performance will be if we're still stuck with kdeedu
<ogra> and openoffice ...
<highvoltage> those are things you won't even consider running if you're going as far as to run fluxbox, imho
<jsgotangco> we'll be struggling for kb again in the next few months lol
<mhz> BUT, please do not forget that at least in Chile (not sure about highvoltage's experience in Southafrica), MANY schools have PII or just have nothing at all to implement a lab, and getting a "decent" server  to them may not a trivial task. We (I do) have to deal with PC's gotten as gift from people who throw them away. And if we get a server, it may usually be between a 800 MHz processor with 512 MB of RAM and a 2 GHz with 1 GB of RAM, for about 10 to 20 clie
<mhz> nts :)
<jsgotangco> mhz: its not different in my country, the concept of networked lab here is even non existent ;)
<jsgotangco> (for public schools that is)
<highvoltage> same situation here, too.
<mhz> jsgotangco: indeed.
<highvoltage> our schools are just lucky that sabdfl sponsored them.
<jsgotangco> but again, we're fighting against the speed of software devlopment and the resources it requires
<spacey> my primary school only had two 486's. :)
<spacey> for 100 kids
<mhz> so, with crappy situations like that, yeah, my best option is still xubuntu, but IF needed, I may have to still consider fluxbox (beautiful as DamnSamllLinux look-and-feel settings)
<spacey> ofcourse that is quite a while back :)
<jsgotangco> so yeah win98 is still relevant for a major part of the global computer population :)
<mhz> the huge prob. I see is that considering fluxbox (at least in my case) it may end up generating schools Mauricio-dependent any time they need to install ans configure stuff, to even have icons on desktop, and stuff like that.
<highvoltage> my primary school didn't even have computers for the kids :/
<highvoltage> mhz: i think in your case, the best bet is to not use thin clients
<highvoltage> use a small server, and install xubuntu on all the machines.
<mhz> My 1st hands on keyboard was when I was 21 years old !
<highvoltage> perhaps have an automated intall on the server, that the clients can boot into
<highvoltage> to keep down on maintenance
<highvoltage> then use ldap or nis or something with nfs to store the files on the server
<jsgotangco> you really need a server and a good switch to make things happen
<highvoltage> xubuntu runs quite ok on a PII/300 with 64MB RAM
<highvoltage> then you just use epiphany with gnumeric and abiword
<mhz> highvoltage: yeah, I have thought so, it is just that I can't close to the LTSP option because I have been struggling to make the RecicLab project come true. And if that happens, I may have some 'horse-power' for server-older clients solution
<highvoltage> yep. nothing wrong with starting out small though.
<mhz> indeed
<mhz> so far, my omplementations are usually 1 GHz + 512 MB of RAM server + light workstations (installed OS) mounting /home at server side
<mhz> and NO openoffice :)
<mhz> just abiword and gnumeric and few other apps.
<pygi> hey mhz :)
<mhz> well, gcompris is becoming a 'default
<mhz> pygi: hey!
<mhz> BTW, are we all on sunday?
<mhz> or monday anyone?
<pygi> mhz, some are monday probably
<jsgotangco> its 10pm sunday
* mhz is on sunday 08:25 AM
<mhz> oooh
<jsgotangco> err
<jsgotangco> 8:30PM rather
<pygi> 14:24pm
* jsgotangco had a flu 2 days ago
<jsgotangco> still a bit woozy
<highvoltage> mhz: still sunday here
<mhz> jsgotangco: bless you!
<mhz> ;p
<mhz> hehe, it is funny.. when I read english I pronouce the sounds in my head and many times I think of a thing that is not what it is written. Example: "had flu 2 days ago" when I pronounced it iwas "had flew 2 days ago" so I had to re-process the ideas and get just the correct one :D
<jsgotangco> you need industrial-strength brain training!
<mhz> lol
* jsgotangco is obviously addicted to something
* mhz still thinks highvoltage must have come here instead of Paris :p
<mhz> jsgotangco: somehow, we all are
<jsgotangco> lol
* highvoltage will probably never hear the end of that
<highvoltage> ;)
<jsgotangco> mhz: he will probably reconsider if you start collecting your countries virgins and lock them up with him when he arrives
<jsgotangco> s/countries/country's
* jsgotangco hides
<mhz> highvoltage: can't convince you even if I get you a sexy + clever + grown up + geek woman ?
<jsgotangco> haha
<ogra> a gree woman ? 
<ogra> *greek
<jsgotangco> techno pimp
<mhz> LOL
<mhz> highvoltage: so geek that she could even tweak her own kernel!!!
<mhz> just imagine that!
<mhz> :D
<jsgotangco> sounds boring
<mhz> oh, c'mon, jsgotangco ! It all depends on what she does to kill the 'compiling' time :D
<highvoltage> mhz: if you take the 'geek' part out, and change it to hacker, i'll seriously consider it
<highvoltage> mhz: but if she has a beard, the deal is off
<mhz> rofl!!!
<ogra> jsgotangco, well, it has uts charm if you can chat with your GF by ICQ while sitting on the same table 
<ogra> *its
<mhz> lol
<highvoltage> ogra: we've all been there
<ogra> :)
* mhz almost poured coffee on keyboard! 
<jsgotangco> yeahh
<mhz> highvoltage: hmm, but the beard has a 'charming' point :)
<jsgotangco> you literally send a message "across the miles"
<ogra> heh
<jsgotangco> ogra: you still use ICQ?
<mhz> highvoltage: I know! you could slap her every time she makes a mistake on the terminal and gets a 'beep' :D
<jsgotangco> strip terminal?
<ogra> well, i didnt open my gaim since 6 months or so, but there are some isq users i know, yes
<highvoltage> heh
<ogra> *icq
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: lol!
<pygi> ogra, this is better then gaim ;)
<pygi> http://img286.imageshack.us/img286/8776/famasite4ee.png
<mhz> well, guys, nice talking to you but now I gotta get back to relaity and make breakfast for family ;(
* mhz hides the wip
<ogra> well, since i usually never use any messenger and gaim is installed by default AND im a lazy person ...
<lucasvo> pygi: well the plugins are annoying
<lucasvo> users normally are lazy
<pygi> lucasvo, ah, well :)
<highvoltage> developers too (which is a good thing)
<lucasvo> so they don't want to download the plugins
<pygi> lucasvo, yes, yes :)
<lucasvo> Imagine an ubuntu with a minimal kernel which requires the users to download and install loads of modules
<pygi> lucasvo, that's nice ;)
<pygi> I don't see anything wrong with it :P
<highvoltage> that's not much different from the current kernel, is it?
<mhz> ogra: then what you use for IRC?
<highvoltage> 16:47 [freenode]  CTCP VERSION reply from ogra: xchat 2.6.1 Ubuntu
<mhz> jsgotangco: I have just updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuViaNetBoot
<pygi> mhz, gaim is just bad :P
<mhz> jsgotangco: please let me know if it will fit for newsletter
<ogra> mhz, a decent known to work chat client indeed, not a raped IM client
<mhz> else, I can wiki new material today just for the newsletter
<ogra> ;)
<mhz> ogra: yeah, which
<mhz> ?
<ogra> see above, highvoltage told you
<mhz> highvoltage: duh! sorry
<mhz> ogra: and it was less "lazy" to just type in 'xchat' :D
<ogra> gah, why do people still use apt-get dist-upgrade ... nobiody reads the upgarde notes :/
<mhz> ogra: nope, unfortunatelly, nope
<mhz> maybe, sending a DO NOT USE dist-upgrade email to ML may help
<ogra> well, its their own fault not to read DapperUpgrades
<purserj> damn now you tell me. I dist-upgraded over a month ago
<ogra> they'll just be missing some old stuff being removed etc ... the stuff update-amanger cares for now
<highvoltage> in all honesty, i didn't read the update notes and also used apt-get dist-upgrade on some of my machines
* highvoltage pledges to read the upgrade notes
<ogra> well, there is stuff beyond apt-get that needs to be done now, update-manager cares for that
<mhz> highvoltage: i do use it BUT only after fresh install of new releases
<highvoltage> ogra: what's the best command line tool to use to upgrade?
<highvoltage> ah i see. interesting.
<jsgotangco> well it seemed to hose our ubuntu locoteam server after someone dist-upgraded
<jsgotangco> ;)
<mhz> highvoltage: the best? to $ sudo read wiki
<mhz> :p
<ogra> still dist-upgrade, but its not as clean as using update-manager 
<ogra> it leaves old cruft behind
<ogra> i.e. you will have both screensaver installed if you only use apt-get
<jsgotangco> in aptitude we trust?
<mhz> jsgotangco: hheheh
<highvoltage> aptitude is too clever for me. it keeps doing things i didn't ask it to do :)
<ogra> i dont know anybody in the distro team who even uses aptitude
<mhz> highvoltage: I only used it once...it wiped out all my /
<mhz> highvoltage: so, now there are 2 things I hate: automounting stuff + aptitude :D
<mhz> highvoltage: the only possibility I may like automounting is if default setting is to aske me How/Where/Who can use it questions
<highvoltage> mhz: in gnome, you can set a lot of that stuff in System -> Preferences -> Removable Drives and Media
<highvoltage> (me is getting better at using the gui tools again)
<mhz> highvoltage: I saw those options but only after getting your tip last friday. But for me, it is not wise at all. I mean, if default 'mount' command lets every client-user in LTSP env. (in same Group) access to mounted PenDrives, Why would 'autmounting' work differently. It makes no sense to me.
<jsgotangco> well i gotta go
<jsgotangco> have a good sunday all
<mhz> esp. considering that 'mount' has traditionally be the option for many users, and therefore, they are used to think (like me) "well, it is weired! I have this pendrive already mounted, all users belong to my group and they can't read it? What is I am doing wrong?"
<mhz> so, IMHO, automounting defaults are not wise
<mhz> at least not for Edubuntu
<mhz> ogra: what do you think?
<ogra> ?
<mhz> about my "automounting" issue
<ogra> put the device in fstab
<ogra> give it the right mount options and your prob is solved
<ogra> pmount is intended to provide secure per user mounting, which is exactly the right behavior we'll use for localdev support in ltsp, if you want systemwide mounting, use a systemwide setup (fszab)
<ogra> *fstab
<mhz> ogra: basically, default 'edubuntu automounting' option mounts Pendrive but it is allowed only for current user (the one inserting the pendrive at the server) so all clients do see it on their desktops BUT are not allowed to access it (they bleong to same group).  If I umount it, then moun it 'manually' (as I had always had) with $mount /dev/sda1  /mnt/PenDrive , ALL users immediately can access to it 
<ogra> yes, thats what i said in my last sentence
<ogra> use fstab (which doesnt use pmount)
<mhz> but ogra, do you think it is logical? I mount it manually, with no extra arguments, just 'mount' and everyone is happy. When pmount works, everyone sees it on desktop but can't access?
<ogra> sure that logical, you compare two different processes with two different purposes, pmount is the right way for single user mounting, fstasb is the right way for system wide mounting
<mhz> ogra: right, in Edubuntu, we are talking about LTSP, therefore, system wide :)
<ogra> if you want that, use an fstab entry
<mhz> ehehhe, it seems you are not getting my idea. LTSP = sytem wide, for teachers ease of mind (default)
<ogra> edgy ltsp != systemwide at all 
<ogra> since we'll have local device support there
<mhz> therefore pmount is good it tacher (usually wiuth access to server) can mount stuff and by default, students read it
<ogra> just add an fstab entry
<mhz> ogra: yeah, I know edgy will.
<mhz> I am just saying that in dapper we do not support local device and I understand.
<ogra> yes, and i say that the tool used doe the task right ...
<ogra> *does
<ogra> use the other tool if you want the other task
<mhz> What is not logical to me is that a simple action (that afaik, all ubuntu and debian and other distro users are used to) of mounting issuing 'mount' command should give similar results when using pmount default settings in an Edubuntu env.
<mhz> or, just disable pmount as default option.
<ogra> use mount if you want system wide acces, use (personal)mount if you want only personal acces
<mhz> All my testings are from a teacher perspective (end-user)
<mhz> lol
<mhz> teachers do use what we provide by default
<ogra> teachers will be able to copy over the data 
<mhz> and they will invest (like a did, precious minutes, about 45) to realize it was nothing bad with my pendrive, nor my system, nor my groups privileges, etc... just that pmount is enabled with options I do not need (as a classroom/lab teacher)
<ogra> its not possible to use mount without root access so its not possible to just replace pmount
<mhz> oh, good point....
* mhz thinks about that argument now
<ogra> just add it to the fstab 
<ogra> put in the right options and you are fine
<ogra> (user= and umask should be in the options line)
<mhz> ogra: hmm, when you think of edubuntu, do you see a techer admin of a Lab? if so, he'll know how to use sudo. So, any chance, edubuntu pmount default asks the teacher, "do you want to mount this 'system wide'? If so, use 'sudo mount' ...blablah"?
<mhz> using fstab is the right option, indeed but is more agressive than 'sudo mount' or 'pmount asking what to do'
<highvoltage> mhz: in most cases, i think it's handy for users to be able to save their files to storage they have brought with them
<ogra> nope
<ogra> and be save that nobody else accesses them ...
<ogra> s/save/sure/
<mhz> highvoltage: sure! but even AFTER I did that, users could not have access to my files :)
<ogra> which is the intended purpose
<highvoltage> nee, ek dink ek gaan wag vir 'n nintendo wii
<highvoltage> ugh... sorry, wrong channel :)
<mhz> believe me guys, I tried to use GUI info from Menus and all. Only mounting manually (or doing fstab thing) worked. So, copying files to a dir did not help at all. 
<mhz> I even tried using public_html ! :d
<ogra> use fstab
<mhz> ogra: /me sighs. yes, fstab is good option, so is umounting and mounting manually. But I remember you have always promoted we use GUI instead of command line (please dont tell me to use a GUI editor :D )
<mhz> And so, I used only GUI info and menus for about 40 minutes
<mhz> until I gave up and started a terminal to solve it
<ogra> if you use fstab the disk will be in the computer:/// location, if yu used the right settings in fstab only the teacher can mount it but everybody else has access
<mhz> hence, I say it is not logical if we have pmount enabled as default with no questions asked
<mhz> just making that "question" would be very helpful
<ogra> we wont add any questions to a backend tool ... use the system the right way and you get the right results
<mhz> ogra: lol
<mhz> okis, okis, okis
<mhz> you win
<mhz> then you are telling me to use command line
<mhz> instead of GUI
<mhz> to solve a very simple issue
<ogra> i tell you to do do admin stuff as admin ... 
<ogra> to solve a very simple issue
<ogra> in the most simple way
<mhz> ogra: man, believe me when I say "I understand why you say 'fstab' over 'mount' issue"
<mhz> it is just that I always try to remember "edubuntu is aimed for a end-user-teacher to have an LTSP school lab.  env. out of the box"
<mhz> Actually, that is why I understadn we have so much GUI in Edubuntu for admin stuff
<ogra> mhz, see man pmuount, you could also write a wrapper to use the umask option
<ogra> but that will indeed break pmounts security concept
<mhz> ogra: okis, I wil write a mini wiki page for teachers then :)
<ogra> how to make your system break on upgrades ? 
<ogra> that may work if you know what youre doing, but please use the fstab way for howtos or help docs
<mhz> ogra: hehehehe
<mhz> ogra: sorry, I mean: wiki page to explain Teachers to edit fstab
<mhz> ogra: I wouldn't explain anything else if you tell me is not 'secure'
* mhz offers ogra a glass of nice Chilean wine to avoid ogra growing dandruff (i believe that is the word for that little white thing on the head)
<ogra> and you mean putting wine on my hair will avoid that ? 
<ogra> :)
<mhz> ogra: LOL
<kenweill> hello?
<ogra> hi
<pips1> I'm testing edubuntu-ltsp from the xubuntu ltsp install option. the server is am64 and the clients are i386, so I tried 'sudo rm -rf /opt/ltps/amd64 && ltsp-build-client --arch i386' but I get the error message 'E: debootstrab can only run as root'. Shouldn't it "just work" with 'sudo'?
<pips1> Any suggestions much appreciated ...
<spacey> pips1: && sudo
<pips1> right!
* pips1 blushes
<spacey> an i guess its s/ltps/ltsp
<pips1> cheers! (that was just a typo of mine in xchat)
<spacey> k:)
<pips1> ok, it's doing its magic now :)
<pips1> xubuntu with ltsp is very promising... speed-wise it's great. but there are too many essential features missing still... it definitely has potential though
<sallechool> Hello
<pips1> hi
<sallechool> Well, another problem
<sallechool> I have logged into my thin client
<sallechool> and after that I only obtain edubuntu's logo, the green one with the world
<sallechool> any idea?
<pips1> your thin client "hangs" at the logo and you don't get the desktop...?
<sallechool> ya
<sallechool> that is
<pips1> hmm
<pips1> I'll be right back
<sallechool> I'll back
<zaHa> does it make any differance if i use the edubuntu live cd to install, than the install cd? i am on the live cd now.
<Rondom> zaHa: the install-cd is more stable
<Rondom> and offers you more options
<Rondom> if you've downloaded both it doesn't make a difference which cd you use
<Rondom> the desktop-cd only makes thing simpler, but isn't 100% stable IMO
<ogra> zaHa, the liveCD only installs a workstation, while the install CD installs a classroom server by default and has the workstation optionally
<ogra> there are no stability issues with the liveCD, but it has pretty high minimal requirements
<zaHa> thanks, so that means i can use the livecd?
<salleschool> Hello
<salleschool> I'm still working with my thin clients
<salleschool> After login in the terminal hangs on the logo
<salleschool> any ideas
<zaHa> another question: when i download a .deb someone cant be installed because it is depending on another package, but how can i install all of them in Gdebi package installer?
<salleschool> I'll back later
<ogra> zaHa, what deb is that ? did you notice that ubuntu offers 17000 packages ? its very likely you can find what you look for in ubuntus universe or multiverse
<ogra> salleschool, did you do what i suggested ?
<salleschool> yes, but now I've got another problem because I can see the screen
<salleschool> I wrote the user and password and then I only had the logo
<ogra> yes, and did you look into the file i pointed you to ?
<salleschool> Would you like to remember me the file? sorry :-(
<ogra> "<ogra> salleschool, forget about sabayon for now ... look in ~/.xsession-errors of the user you tried to log in with"
<ogra> it should tell you whats wrong
<viv> Help please. I tried to install Dapper 6.06 today on a Dell that was running 6.06 Beta from a few weeks ago. It all looked fine, but failed after about 10 mins of "building CHROOT" and left a few blocks on a black screen. Help?
<salleschool> I cannot find the file, where is it?
<ogra> salleschool, in the home of the user
* client1 is pips1 on an edubuntu thin client :-)
<ogra> yay
<ogra> hey pips1 
<client1> hi ogra
<ogra> viv, i guess you are not in the installer anymore so you could save the logfile of the ltsp chroot building ? 
<ogra> viv, but it sounds like a badly burned media
<viv> Im on another (ubuntu) machine - I checked the CDrom on the menu - it looked ok. I'll burn another and test...
<ogra> oh, you are not talking about edubuntu ? 
<viv> yes - it was edubuntu - for a small rural university :-)
<ogra> ok
<client1> salleschool: if your client user name is 'clientname' the file that ogra was talking about is in /home/clientname/.xsession-errors 
<salleschool> I'm sorry but I cannot find such file
<client1> salleschool: all files that start with a '.' (dot) are hidden in the graphical file managers by default...
<salleschool> That means that something's missed
<salleschool> ok
<ogra> the file gets created *before* the splash screen you see is shown, so it must be there 
<ogra> hit ctrl-H in the filemanager to make hidden files and directories shown
<client1> salleschool: if you are using the grafical file manager ("nautilus") to look for that file, you can choose to show all files, including the hidden ones with the 'view' menu...
<salleschool> ok
<client1> salleschool: yes, or use ctrl-H like ogra said, that shows all hidden files :)
<salleschool> I've got it, I'm reading now
<ogra> look at the last lines
<salleschool> ** (gnome-search-tool:25398): WARNING **: Cannot extract frame from the grid
<salleschool> That is the last line
<ogra> can you copy/paste the file to a pastebin service ? 
<ogra> pastebin.ca or pastebin.com
<client1> ogra: how does edubuntu's ltsp setup differ from the one that you can choose from the xubuntu alternate installer ? 
<ogra> not at all
<client1> oic
<ogra> its the same set of packages and the same chroot builder routine
<ogra> the desktop you log in is xfce though
<ogra> thats the difference :)
<client1> during the install process, you don't get asked the questions like during edubuntu's setup though, like ip address, gateway, nameservers, etc
<client1> ?
<ogra> yes that will likely break :)
<ogra> since if the system gets the ip via dhcp that means you already run a dhcp server in your network :)
<ogra> so the ltsp dhcp wont work 
<ogra> (youo know the problem)
<salleschool> I did http://pastebin.ca/61745
<ogra> adding the ltsp bits was a last minute idea of the xubuntu folks, its great that the installer works at all
<ogra> salleschool, is that an updated system ? 
<client1> ogra: right. so since the xubuntu alternate ltsp setup doesn't "insist" on setting up its own dhcp server.
<salleschool> I installed yesterday
<salleschool> edubuntu 6.06
<ogra> salleschool, also that doesnt look like the user logged in via ltsp, there is a gdm login procedure at the top of the file
<ogra> (ltsp doesnt use gdm)
<salleschool> Authentication Rejected, reason : None of the authentication protocols specified are supported and host-based authentication failed.
<client1> salleschool: did you do a 'workstation' install for the "client" ?
<ogra> salleschool, thats the network-manager spp
<salleschool> I used etherboot but I didn't install anythin on the client
<client1> salleschool: i see
<ogra> #
<ogra> (network-admin:25360): GnomeUI-WARNING **: While connecting to session manager:
<ogra> #
<ogra> Authentication Rejected, reason : None of the authentication protocols specified are supported and host-based authentication failed.
<ogra> see the name of the app in the brackets, thats not the reason for the failing session, it looks rather like you tried to start the network app and mistyped your password
<ogra> salleschool, did you change the icontheme of this user ? 
<ogra> it looks like the panel has a major problem displaying a certain icon and crashes
<salleschool> no, I haven't changed the icons
<salleschool> can I try to change the default theme?
<ogra> but in any case that doesnt look like an .xsession-errors from a ltsp login
<ogra> can you try adding a new user and test if it works with that one ? 
<client1> ogra: did you try out a xubuntu ltsp install on a machine yet?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> i'm happy i fifshed my edubuntu install tests in time, i'm not fond of seeing the installer for at least a week :)
<ogra> *finished
<salleschool> I added the new user this morning and the funny thing is that the xsessions.error it cannot be open
<client1> the xcfe desktop is really fast... but i think there are a lot of rough edges with xubuntu+ltsp that need re-configuration by anyone who wants to use it.
<ogra> yep, i'd guess so
<client1> if you click on the 'shutdown' icon in the xfce login screen, it shuts down the server!?!
<ogra> client1, known bug
<client1> ah
<ogra> ltsp was added way to late to xubuntu to integrate everything properly
<client1> yeah
<ogra> salleschool, does it not exist or are you not able to read it ? 
<salleschool> It says gedit cannot find the codification of characters
<ogra> hmm, does that user use a different language ? 
<salleschool> Of, course, I'm Spanish
<ogra> i mean a different one from the default system language ? 
<ogra> :)
<ogra> i guessed spanish by the text in your .xsession-errors :)
<salleschool> I think that the logo is in English
<salleschool> yes, right, it aks for an username an
<ogra> so if you try to log in with the user you created this morning it doesnt work either ? 
<ogra> (via ltsp)
<salleschool> I didn't
<ogra> try it
<salleschool> I'm downloading languages
<ogra> make sure to use the language tool from the system menu for that 
<ogra> it cares that all necessary packages for a language are installed
<salleschool> Ladies and gentlemen...
<salleschool> It's working
<ogra> yay
<salleschool> Thaks
<ogra> :)
<salleschool> you are great
<salleschool> But I have some bad news
<salleschool> my school has got 25 different thin clients
<salleschool> I hope not to have problems with them tomorrow
<ogra> that shouldnt be a problem 
<salleschool> well, it depends
<salleschool> we have plenty of work here
<salleschool> wait, wait a moment
<ogra> you will probably have to do some setup for the keyboards, see https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPClientKeymap
<salleschool> I have the screen but nothing happens
<salleschool> I cannot open anythin at all
<ogra> thats a bit vague, can you be more specific ? 
<salleschool> Well I try to open firefox and it didn't
<salleschool> I try to logo off and it doesn't
<ogra> so the panel doesnt react on anything if you click on something ?
<salleschool> that is
<ogra> can you right click on the desktop and get a menu ?
<salleschool> no, i can't
<ogra> what kind of mouse is that ? 
<salleschool> it's usb, Creative, two bottons and a wheel
<ogra> (and are you sure it works usually and is not a hardware problem ?)
<salleschool> It can move around the screen
<salleschool> It works
<ogra> yes, but it looks like the buttons dont work ... try unplugging and replugging it
<salleschool> I have rebooted the terminal and I have changed the mouse
<salleschool> Let's see
<salleschool> I have the same problem that before
<ogra> thats weird 
<salleschool> When I rebooted I had the logo screen but
<salleschool> after that nothing to do
<ogra> did you log out properly ?
<ogra> or did you simply hit the power switch of the terminal ?
<salleschool> I pushed out the client with the Student Control Panel
<ogra> ah, ok
<ogra> thats really strange 
<ogra> can you look if there are any processes for that user left running ?
<salleschool> I'm going to shut doiwn the server
<salleschool> I'll be back tomorrow
<salleschool> Thaks a lot, see you soon
<client1> where do I find the student control panel ?
<client1> the infamous s-c-p ;-D
<client1> ogra: ?
<client1> ah, I see, s-c-p is not installed by default.
<ogra> its in universe 
<ogra> until its a bit more feature complete
<client1> i just had a look at it. at the moment, you can just see cpu & mem usage per client and disconnect them...?
<client1> what is that (greyed out) button on the right hand side (with a desktop and a plug) ?
<ogra> well you should also see a process list
<ogra> thats the vnc feature
<ogra> its disabled but already implemented
<client1> oh
<client1> ic
<ogra> the side on the terminal is missing
<ogra> that needs some changes to x11vnc 
<client1> the process list works fine
<ogra> well, i want it to look like the one in the system monitor 
<ogra> and a kill button for selected processes
<ogra> so you can shut down the pupils solitaire game he secretly plays :)
<client1> hehe
<HedgeMage> lol
<client1> If my wife had a pips1-control-panel, she would now shut down my pcs completely, and press the "help wife prepare dinner" button
<ogra> hehe
<client1> have a good evening! got to go. :)
<ogra> enjoy your dinner :)
<client1> thanks! cu
<viv> Hi there, Im stuck! Edubuntu 6.06 install stops during CHROOT creation and displays a black screen with 2 white squares. Ogra suggested bad media, but I did an md5, and burned a new disk - no success. Any ideas welcome.
<HedgeMage> :(
<ogra> viv look on console 3 for errormessages 
<HedgeMage> I'm not good with LTSP but poking ogra or someone might help
<HedgeMage> aha, there he is
* HedgeMage leaves viv in ogra's capable hands
<ogra> or save me /var/log/messages from the half installed system
<viv> Edubuntu 6.06 beta works on the same box - a dell optiplex 170 L 2.8 GHz with 512MB ram and 40GB hdd
<ogra> waht grephics card ? 
<ogra> *graphics
<viv> Ha! error message says generating locales...
<viv> en_ZA.UTF-8 ... done
<viv> en_US.UTF-8 ... done
<viv> Generation complete
<viv> Thats it...
<viv> On board graphics I think
<viv> oops - wrong messages - blush - Im installing 5.1o Breezy at the moment as a test - it's late.
<viv> I'll revert with console messages in a while 
<viv> Sorry - I am still a noob ;-)
<ogra> i suspectz it happens during xserver install in the chroot
<viv> Breezy edubuntu is installing packages. I'll check the graphics card once its up, and then re-install. My linksys router DHCP is on 192.168.2.1 - how best to set the network options so that I can be online but not damage the LTSP setup later - only 1 network card so far.
<ogra> switch off the dhcp server on your router and use the one on the server
<ogra> also see the gettingstarted doc from the channel /topic
<viv> I need the Howto. there are other windows machines running on the linksys. I have been using a seperate network to test out LTSP.
<ogra> well, then you have a problem, i dont know any way to teach a linksys dhcp server to serve netboot stuff
<SWAT> any idea where I could get information about Ubuntu (not specifically Edubuntu)? I will probably give a course "Linux" after the summer and want to promote Ubuntu :-)
<HedgeMage> SWAT: #ubuntu or www.ubuntu.com or distrowatch
<ogra> if you have two dhcp servers in the same network the clients will have booting problems, depending on which server answers first
<HedgeMage> ogra: shouldn't it be possible to tell the LTSP server to serv dhcp and dhcp only to the windoze boxen?
<SWAT> HedgeMage, that was obvious :P I thought maybe someone in here would know if something like this already exists? 
<ogra> HedgeMage, it will do that by default
<HedgeMage> that might solve your problem then viv 
<HedgeMage> SWAT: what kind of audience are you aiming for?
<ogra> but if the network is physically parted it wont work
<viv> OK, but can't I just set up DHCP detection at first while debugging, then take it off line and reconfigure the network card to a fixed IP for testing LTSP. The target site will get a second network card in the server.
<HedgeMage> ogra: then I misunderstood... I thought viv said they were parted and she/he wanted to put them together
<SWAT> HedgeMage, college beginner level (people who have very little or no experience with linux)
<HedgeMage> SWAT: if it's still up, my old lug ( hoodlug.org ) should have my "intro to linux" program materials somewhere
<HedgeMage> SWAT: it's very distro-neutral, so you'd have to adapt it slightly for ubuntu, but no huge deal there
<ogra> viv, the ltsp server wont work with a dhcp server anywher on the net that serves the tftp info to the client (where to find the kernel etc)
<viv> Ok I understand. But I was hoping to put the box online during installation to send error messages etc without rebuilding my home network (no ltsp at this testing stage)
<ogra> you can switch stuff around as you like and if you have two NICs it wont be a problem to serve via dhcp on one NIC and to be your routers client on the other, but with only one NIC you need to use a dchp server that can serve the necessary info
<viv> Then when it's up, remove the internet cable and plug in a hub with clients
<SWAT> HedgeMage, thanks for the information (couldn't find anything), but now I know where I stand
<ogra> that will work if you keep in mind that the /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf needs to match your ip an dyou need to run sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys after every IP change
<ogra> and dont forget to restart the dhcp server in case you change /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
* ogra is afk for a while now
<viv> ok. Ill just message you from this adjacent machine for now. Breezy is up with no problems. The graphics is 82865 Integrated Graphics device on the motherboard according to device manager.
<viv> I'm going to shutdown and re-install dapper - watching console 3
<ogra> note that the usual installer output is on console 4, only the ltsp part logs on 3
<viv> thanks - I'll multiplex ;-)
<viv> The last message was "setting up X-server.org" and then the screen failed as before - two little white squares. ctl-alt-f3 or -f4 do nothing. lucky I was watching!
<viv> Is the data on console 3 saved in a log?
<ogra> yes
<ogra> /var/log/messages 
<ogra> and in the installed system in /var/log/installer/messages
<viv> But now the darned machine is dead - Ill try to use the repair system?
<ogra> try installing a workstation, i'll guide you through the edubuntu-server install afterwards
<viv> ok thanks
<viv> cannel /topic
<lucasvo> viv: just enter /topic
<lucasvo> without the channell
<viv> lucasvo: thanks. Ive read it now.
<HedgeMage> SWAT: np
<viv> ogra: Mmmm. the plot thickens. It has crashed in the same way. I didn't see the last message, but it was near the end - around setting up X-server :-(
<viv> Machine is dead
<viv> 2 white squares is all I have. Should I try the beta 6.06 again since it worked b4?
<HedgeMage> I'd say yes.
<HedgeMage> once you get it up and running, you can update the packages that need updating without doing a full re-install
<HedgeMage> and thus not borking your X
<viv> Hedgemage, borking my X is a new term, but very descriptive. Breezy install worked fine. Ogra, if you are still around, what's your opinion?
<viv> Nature calls - back in a bit.
<HedgeMage> viv: "bork" is a term of American origin, referencing a Judge Bork who was nominated to the US Supreme Court (our highest court) and touted as the next big thing, only to have his prospects shot down late in the vetting (investigaton and approval) proccess by our legislature... "bork" has since come to mean "getting to the brink of success and failing spectacularly"
* HedgeMage is a fountain of useless knowledge
<viv> HedgeMage: very apt term.  I'll add it to my stash of strange facts immediately........ goes off to install Edubuntu 6.06 Beta again....
<HedgeMage> hehe :D
<viv> Surprise - After a power down the machine booted into edubuntu! 6.06 June release. It seems like it may have been a near Bork? What can I do to check if it all got installed (this was the workstation version but I want the LTSP server so I might try again and just crash throught the black screen if this install is good)
<viv> I tried the messages in /var/log - but they are for the current session. Ogra said to try /var/log/installer/messages but it doesn't exist
<HedgeMage> viv: interesting... the best I can say is to try using it and see if anything seems messed up
<viv> HedgeMage: So - you conceed "a near Bork" is acceptable usage of the term? Where is the log from the install?
<HedgeMage> I don't see why not. :)  
<HedgeMage> hmmm... let me see if I can figure out where it is on my system
<HedgeMage> viv: directory /var/logs/installer contains them
<HedgeMage> it's more than one file
#edubuntu 2007-05-28
<tristan_> fixed :)
<tristan_> removed the journal and created a new one
<sbalneav> Evening all
<LaserJock> hi
<pygi> hi folks
<pygi> it's morning (3:40AM :P)
<sbalneav> You're up early :)
<pygi> sbalneav, you mean one should sleep? :P
<sbalneav> Well, I'd still be sleeping at 3:40 in the morning :)
<pygi> hehe :)
<Burgundavia> hey pygi, LaserJock, sbalneav
<pygi> hi Burgundavia , long time no see
<sbalneav> Hello
<RichEd> g'morning
<encompass> I am a GSoC student working with PyStart... can some one show me how this pygtk.textview works?
<encompass> howdy
<RichEd> encompass: I may be able to find a doc or help for you ... give me a few mins
<encompass> thanks
<encompass> I am using glade and can't figure out what and where to assign the buffer for that textview
<encompass> to make the long question longe I need to clear the text.
<encompass> to be exact :P
<juliux> good morning RichEd
<RichEd> hi juliux ... are you doing okay ?
<juliux> RichEd, at the moment yes;)
<RichEd> good
<juliux> RichEd,  i will travling today to berlin to the linuxtag
<RichEd> encompass: sorry I can't find anything on a search ... have you asked in #python ?
<encompass> I will there next
<encompass> they don't know pygtk all the well actually :P
<LaserJock> hi RichEd
<RichEd> hi LaserJock ... how are you ?
<LaserJock> decent
<LaserJock> enjoying my Memorial Day holiday
<LaserJock> I'm into it 5min now ;-)
<RichEd> so go offline and explore some real life !
<encompass> oh yes... it is a holiday in the states
<encompass> forgot all about it
<RichEd> that 3-dimensional stuff people talk about
<LaserJock> RichEd: this isn't real life?!?
<LaserJock> :-)
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<RichEd> am I correct that it is a holiday for the UK and the US ?
<encompass> I know it is a US holiday
<encompass> IF RichEd.knows(UK.MemorialDay) = true then print "yes!"
<RichEd> extract{http://www.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/customs/questions/bankholidays.html}
<RichEd> [Spring Bank Holiday
<RichEd> (Last Monday in May)
<RichEd> 28 May] 
<encompass> RichEd: sometime I even have a wobble world, jsut like my windows!
<RichEd> encompass: so do we all, just MSFT seems to be more consistent ;)
<encompass> he
<encompass> should I post all my programming questions here or in some dev room or ignore edubuntu totally and go for python...
<encompass> http://launchpad.net/pystart is my GSoC project for edubuntu
<RichEd> encompass: probably #python would be best
<RichEd> nice project :) we're hoping to promote edubuntu/ubuntu as an ideal environment for teaching programming (license free of course)
<encompass> great and thanks, I will throw comments there... they can be a tougher bunch of people, but I will do my best
<RichEd> hi ogra-classmate :)
<ogra-classmate> yo
<willvdl> hey folks
<willvdl> greets from Kenya
<jsgotangco> hi
<jsgotangco> how is the safari going?
<jsgotangco> :D
<encompass> willvdl: howdy... lots of friends from Kenya here in finland... I attend school with like 10
<willvdl> I'm at the elearning-africa conf
<willvdl> it is unreal!
<jsgotangco> how can you describe something unreal?
<willvdl> jsgotangco, easy :)
<willvdl> "like, woa man"
<jsgotangco> with wide eyes and gaping mouth
<willvdl> yra
<willvdl> jsgotangco, do you know bridge-it?
<jsgotangco> yeah ive read about it
<willvdl> or bridgit or bridgeit or something
<willvdl> they're here
<jsgotangco> really?
<jsgotangco> is that an expo of sorts?
<willvdl> check out www.elearning-africa.com
<jsgotangco> wow its big!
<jsgotangco> are you speaking or something?
<tristan_> edubuntu r0x :)
<tristan_> just plugin an old diskless PC in my network
<tristan_> and it's going really fast
<tristan_> :)
<tristan_> it's plug&play
<jsgotangco> its neat
<tristan_> so I have to make a really difficult choise now
<tristan_> buying some new workstations for a few hunderd euro's and install Vista
<tristan_> or using my old stuff
<tristan_> for doing the same
<tristan_> and configure all those windows workstations and keeping them updated
<tristan_> or keeping one server updated
<tristan_> so difficult :P
<cbx33> hey Yagisan
<cbx33> yo yo yo
<Yagisan> G'day cbx33
<daya> how to run ltsp on edubuntu, what command
<daya> do i need to install extra packages,
<tristan_> daya: when you install edubuntu it's installed by default
<daya> tristan_, yes, then how to run , do I have to restart some services like dhcp , tftp etc
<tristan_> probably not
<daya> i didn't find ltspadmin command
<tristan_> it's not installed at my system either
<daya> tristan_, even I don't have to run dhcp server,
<daya> I got error while i start my dhcp sever,
<tristan_> hmmz
<daya> do It run its own instance of dhcp server,
<tristan_> well, edubuntu is running out of the box
<tristan_> in my case it did
<tristan_> what error did you get?
<daya> do i have to use /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf file or /etc/dhcp3/dhcpd.conf file I am confused,
<tristan_> /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf I guess
<daya> ok,
<tristan_> I'm sure
<daya> ps -aux | grep dhcp, ?
<daya> no output,
<tristan_> /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server restart
<tristan_> uhm.. forgot sudo
<daya> yes, but it would use the file /etc/dhcp3/dhcpd.conf file,
<daya> and I have to edit it accordingly, then what about the /etc/ltsp/dhcp.conf file
<tristan_> well.. it should run out of the box
<tristan_> so I don't have a clue
<daya> ok, thanks tristan_ I will try it,
<tristan_> are you sure your network is setup correctly during the setup?
<tristan_> you have a fresh installation, right?
<daya> tristan_, yes, and my network is working correctly ,
<daya> what I am confused here is that , I have not tools like ltspadmin, and I am unable to see whether the services are running or not
<daya> like dhcp,
<highvoltage> ps aux | grep dhcpd | grep -v grep
<highvoltage> that should show you whether dhcpd is running
<highvoltage> (or was it dhcp3-server? I can't quire remember)
<tristan_> dhcp3-server
<tristan_> or dhcpd
<tristan_> i'm not sure
<tristan_> sorry
<highvoltage> :)
<tristan_> forget this shit
<tristan_> coevoet@coevoet-1:~$ ps aux | grep dhcpd | grep -v grep
<tristan_> dhcpd     5230  0.0  0.2   2940  1308 ?        Ss   01:48   0:00 /usr/sbin/dhcpd3 -q -pf /var/run/dhcp3-server/dhcpd.pid -cf /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
<tristan_> something like this
<tristan_> :P
<highvoltage> if it's on ubuntu, the config file will also most probably be at /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf, and not in /etc/dhcp3-server
<`6og> the ltsp/ file takes precedence over the /dhcp3-server/ file iirc
<tristan_> how do I get rid of that NetworkManager crap
<tristan_> it's crewing up my resolv.conf all the time
<tristan_> :P
<`6og> --purge remove ;)
* `6og mutters dark words about NM
<tristan_> `6og: good suggestion.. it also want's to remove edubuntu-desktop
<tristan_> not sure if that's smart for future upgrades of this system
<`6og> tristan_, i suggest 'just' pinning it in place
<`6og> its pretty easy, but it does make some things (re apt) not as logical
<`6og> if its pinne, you can remve dependancies and it stays, but you cant reinstall it to reinstall the dependancies - you have to unpin it first
* `6og used to add pinning the -desktop, -minimal and -base packages into place as part of his 'fresh install rutine'
<cbx33> ping ol Yagisan
<cbx33> doh!
<tristan_> today I gonna screw my server
<tristan_> :)
<cbx33> hahah
<tristan_> someone experience with using the edubuntu server as storage for homedirectories and userstuff of a workstation using ldap?
<tristan_> and samba
<tristan_> ?
<tristan_> and authentication stuff
<tristan_> don't have experience with this :P
<tristan_> but want to use the same logins and homedirectory stuff as on the server
<tristan_> so I can switch from my workstation to the thin client without missing my files
<tristan_> and vice versa
<tristan_> ok.. have to setup samba/nfs and openldap :)
<tristan_> hope it works
<tristan_> oO
<tristan_> ogra: you there?
<tristan_> or moquist
<tristan_> ?
<tristan_> or ajmitch
<highvoltage> hey willvdl. do you know when you'll be in durbanville again?
<willvdl> highvoltage, erm, Friday...
* willvdl looks sheepish
<willvdl> in eLearning Africa
<highvoltage> friday is ok. I can then extract the videos during the weekend
<willvdl> sorry
<willvdl> I did saay I'd do it last week
<highvoltage> not a problem.
<willvdl> man the internet is dodgy here
<willvdl> cisco is providing an access point and it bounces like a...something that bounces a lot
<sbalneav> Morning all
<highvoltage> afternoon, sbalneav
<sbalneav> hey hey
<ogra-classmate> RichEd: we'll need to sit down this week to go through the specs and approve/decline them
<RichEd> okay ... when would work for you ? wednesday before the meeting ?
<ogra-classmate> (deadline for the distro team specs is thursday)
<ogra-classmate> nay day will be fine
<ogra-classmate> any
<tristan_> ogra: do you know anything about that EdubuntuNetworkAuthServer stuff I readed online?
<ogra-classmate> we just need to have our list by end of the week, i"m open for everything
<ogra-classmate> tristan_: the ubuntu server team will build something for us so we dont need to care much about it anymore
<ogra-classmate> the spoec is old
<ogra-classmate> *spec
<RichEd> ogra-classmate: okay ... let's try a first round before the meeting and then carry on afterwards if we need to ... 11:00 UTC wed
<ogra-classmate> ok
<ogra-classmate> and probably make sure we have all potential devs in the meeting then :)
<tristan_> ogra-classmate: is there anything atm I can use to set those stuff up?
<tristan_> cause it looks like what I need here
* ogra-classmate looks at sbalneav, moquist, highvoltage, LaserJock
<ogra-classmate> tristan_: there are plenty of howtos to set up an ldap server for authentication, you can do it manually, the spec is about an automated setup
<RichEd> ogra-classmate: jane says hi ... and has a general question I can't find an answer for ... any idea what could cause her discusion forum posts to appear twice when she uses the proxy at work ?
<RichEd> *discussion
<RichEd> she says the proxy is very slow, and I suspect it may be doing a refresh / resubmit / repost when it (almost) times out ?
<ogra-classmate> they come from two different adresses ? might be a broken proxy setup
<sbalneav> tristan_: yeah, setting up an ldap server and getting the PAM stuff going's a bit tricky, but it;s doable.  Google for ldap authentication, and you'll come up with some howtos.
<ogra-classmate> RichEd: yes thats plausible ...
<ogra-classmate> but its hard to diagnose remotely without having any data about the machine the proxy runs on
<RichEd> okay ... thanks ... she has no control over the proxy, but I guess she can mail the admin guy asking if he has any ideas
<ogra-classmate> if its no hw failure like broken disks that cause a resend or something, it will be a broken setup
<RichEd> thanks
<tristan_> sbalneav: I'm not experienced with that :(
<sbalneav> tristan_: No better way to get experienced than by following a howto :)
<tristan_> I know
<tristan_> but I'm lazy these days
<tristan_> actually since i'm using ubuntu
<KJW> heya, I have my main administrator user that can use the potato guy game, but I also set up another user, and when I go to potato guy game it says "No Sound" on it. I checked permissions on sound files and they are ok, I can also play these sound files directly from the file system and they work. What is wrong?
<ogra-classmate> check that the user is in the audio group
<ogra-classmate> how did you create the non privileged users ?
<ogra-classmate> the gui tool has a desktop user profile that sets the appropriate default groups
<KJW> ok, but isn't it strange that the user can play the sound files, but can't use the same ones in potato guy?
<KJW> user is in audio group in /etc/group
<KJW> I created user with gui
<ogra-classmate> hmm, thats strange then
<KJW> is there somewhere that it saves the ktuberling info in the users home directory?
<ogra-classmate> i guess so
<KJW> I just tried creating another user and it works fine for this other user, but can't seem to find any ktuberling files in user dirs
<ogra-classmate> probably in a .kde dir
<KJW> yeah, I looked in there, there seemed to be ones for other apps, but not ktuberling, unless I missed it
<DeadEnd154> Can anyone Please Help me with an Install on Linux?
<KJW> DeadEnd154 is that your question?
<DeadEnd154> did u get that ?
<KJW> ogra-classmate: I deleted the whole .kde directory in my user account and now it works, thanks!
<ogra-classmate> ah, great :)
<meduxa> hi all, spanish edu distro are talking about introducing a little spec in free desktop related with a new category in menu specs for little kids' apps
<meduxa> Linex and mEDUXa has faced a problem with this while configuring GNOME and K menu for kids
<meduxa> we are going to send a proposal and I was wondering if you guys are interesnted on it
<ogra-classmate> meduxa: wait until LaserJock is around, he wrote an edubuntu spec for that that sits in the spec tracker since two releases now, i"m sure he'd love to see that going forward
<meduxa> we won't do anything until friday or so
<meduxa> we are only talking about it
<ogra-classmate> well, thats a start :)
<ace_ace> ogra !
<jonathan_> I'm trying to install a web filter w/ my ltsp setup and it seems that dansguardian mucks the dhcp server up any help?
<ace_ace> problem: on the server, at the login screen, clicking Options->Configure Login Manager, yields nothing...!
<jonathan_> I'm trying to install a web filter w/ my ltsp setup and it seems that dansguardian mucks the dhcp server up any help?
#edubuntu 2007-05-29
<jonathan_> my bad sorry for the double post
<tux_wears_a_tux> Hello?
<LaserJock> hi
<tux_wears_a_tux> laserjock: my "friend" banned me from the ubuntu support room by yelling "boom!" and things like that under my screenname. how do i unban myself?
<LaserJock> tux_wears_a_tux: you'll need to talk to #ubuntu-ops I think
<tux_wears_a_tux> laserjock: ok. thanks. because it seems like my IP was banned, not just the username. thanks
<tux_wears_a_tux> Hello?
<tux_wears_a_tux> Hello?
<LaserJock> yeah
<tux_wears_a_tux> LaserJock: how long do bans last? I need to use the support chat very often, and I was dismissed saying "You should have known better" - I was in the bathroom when my friend started bombarding the chats. What should I do?
<LaserJock> tux_wears_a_tux: who said you should have known better?
<tux_wears_a_tux> Whoever dismissed me. I didn't pay attention to the name.
<LaserJock> well, I can't do anything about it, I'm sorry
<crimsun> joseph price did.
<crimsun> aka PriceChild
<tux_wears_a_tux> crimsun: Why'd he dismiss me?
<tux_wears_a_tux> my friend who wasn't acting like a friend bombarded the chats, not me.
<PriceChild> tux_wears_a_tux, This is not the place to discuss bans. Please move it to pm with me.
<LjL> FYI: he's joined like 8 clones with different nicknames, and now different idents. he's in perfectly bad faith.
<crimsun> the distro and its derivatives seem to attract a lot of drivel.
<LaserJock> *sigh* It's tough being so good ;-)
<PriceChild> hehe
<ace_ace> PriceChild:In the edubuntu login screen, when I click 'options->configure login manager' (on the server) nothing happens. Is this knowm ?
<ace_ace> sorry known
<ace_ace> LaserJock:howdy!
<LaserJock> ace_ace: hi
<ace_ace> LaserJock: how's life... any idea about this: In the edubuntu login screen, when I click 'options->configure login manager' (on the server) nothing happens.
<LaserJock> boy, I really don't know
<montero61> help
<montero61> pliss
<LaserJock> you need to explain you problem first before anybody can help
<montero61> alguien habla en espaol
<ace_ace> LaserJock: Okay dude,,, that makes 2 of us!
<montero61> I explain myself in my Chile country we are with a school that it wants to install edubuntu but I need some presentation or that the basic characteristics tell me to be able to create a presentation   if profit that accepts this project we would beforehand have to 50 computers with edubuntu by its aid thanks 	    	    	
<LaserJock> montero61: you might try http://www.edubuntu.org/UsingEdubuntu
<LaserJock> and http://www.edubuntu.org/faq
<montero61> tanks
<cstextiles> Does TCM of LTSP Server of Ubuntu has VNC Server which can enable to look into the clients machine?
<LaserJock> it does use VNC
<cstextiles> so u mean I can look into LTSP Clients machine using TCM included in Edubuntu 7.04 release?
<cstextiles> LaserJock: so u mean I can look into LTSP Clients machine using TCM included in Edubuntu 7.04 release?
<LaserJock> cstextiles: you should be able to
<cstextiles> LaserJock: Thanks
<willvdl> LaserJock, http://www.livescience.com/technology/destroy_earth_mp-1.html
<willvdl> thought you might like that :)
<LaserJock> morning RichEd
<RichEd> greetz LaserJock ...
<RichEd> how's things ?
<LaserJock> oh, alright
<LaserJock> I got Fridge editor rights this weekend
<RichEd> cool ;)
<LaserJock> so hopefully I can populate fridge with more Edubuntu and MOTU stories
* highvoltage got MOTU reception rights this weekend :)
<highvoltage> (or slightly before the weekend, at least)
* RichEd bows to the new master of the universe and the master of the uni-verse
<RichEd> hello highvoltage ... how's the new job going ?
<highvoltage> RichEd: good, lots of work, but I can't complain
<RichEd> LaserJock: ollie and I will be looking at specs tomorrow to prioritise for gutsy ... will you be available early thursday morning to comment on menu stuff ?
<highvoltage> RichEd: I just hope Will get's a chance to drop off that camera at 12plein, I still need to rip those videos
<RichEd> highvoltage: when does he get back from Kenya ?
<highvoltage> RichEd: I *think* sometime later this week
<LaserJock> RichEd: I think so, I'm finishing off the EdubuntuAddonEnhancements for you guys to look at as well
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<pygi> highvoltage, :P
<RichEd> hey pygi
<pygi> hey RichEd :)
<highvoltage> 9/win 25
<pygi> meh highvoltage !
<highvoltage> pygi: meh!
<pygi> highvoltage, pm
<highvoltage> pygi: I think it's fixed now
<pygi> oki
<RichEd> ogra: ping
<ace_suares> people... when i click 'Options->Configure Login Manager' on the edubuntu login screen, nothing happens... any clues ?
<RichEd> hi ace_suares ... is that an LTSP setup ?
<ogra> ace_suares, des that happen as well if you use it from the System menu ?
<ogra> (or not happen)
<sbalneav> Morning all
<ace_suares> RichEd: yes
<ace_suares> ogra: will test later on.
<encompass> ubuntu_laptop: how are you?  I like your name... do YOU have proper ACPI support?
<encompass> Aperently not :P
<RichEd> hi encompass ... how's the python today ? behaving ?
<ace_suares> ping ogra
<ace_suares> ogra: in System, there is only 'Login Window' (Ssytem-Administration->Login Window, is that the same thing as 'configure the login manager?
<ace_suares> Other thing: I tried hibernate on the server, when it came back up it showed the plain login screen again, nada de-hibernation...
<sbalneav> ace_suares: if you're having trouble with hibernation, it could be a bios problem
<sbalneav> You might want to check and see if there's any bios updates for the motherboard.
<powernet> hi all, anyone may help me with LTSP ?
<RichEd> powernet: it's a bit quiet in here now ...  but try #ltsp ... that is the LTSP core we bundle
<powernet> RichEd ok thanks !
<bddebian> Heya
* ace_suares is away: Gone away for now. 
* ace_saures_away is back.
<LaserJock> ogra: still around? I had a look at gcompris
<LaserJock> ogra: there is no configure flag to drop gnuchess so as far as I can tell we need to patch a Makefile to not build the chess game
#edubuntu 2007-05-30
<_46> hi
* LaserJock has a feeling highvoltage is lurking around
<highvoltage> LaserJock: how do you know that!?
<LaserJock> jabber
<highvoltage> aaah :)
<LaserJock> actually it was because we spent a week together in Paris, but I didn't want to go there ;-)
<highvoltage> what happens in Paris stays in Paris!
<LaserJock> man, I could really use some Subway right now
<highvoltage> well, seems like that story made it quite far :)
<LaserJock> hmm, now that I'm a Fridge editor I could always put it there ;-)
* highvoltage wonders how many people know about the "do you think this is McDonalds!?" incident by now
<highvoltage> LaserJock: heh
<LaserJock> man, and think about that Burger King
<LaserJock> that was soooo good
<LaserJock> not that the Sevilla food was bad
<LaserJock> it was just more like home or something
<highvoltage> too be honest, the Burger King was the best Sevilla food I had :)
* RichEd-1 thinks all of this is too heavy for beakfast ... what's wrong wih bacon & eggs ?
<LaserJock> I liked that Mexicanish place
<highvoltage> RichEd: actually I think the hotel food was quite good. had bacon and eggs quite often there :)
<highvoltage> oh yes, that mexicanish place was fantastic
<highvoltage> pity we didn't go there again.
<RichEd> :) agreed ... b&e with tabasco ... that's a good way to start the day
<RichEd> mehico was good as well
<LaserJock> it was much nicer than Paris, which was a relief
<LaserJock> the hotel food was just fine and going out for dinner was enjoyable
<LaserJock> no shuttle ride then 30min train ride
<highvoltage> yes, transport was way better in spain.
<LaserJock> anybody here running gutsy, is more like it
<LaserJock> ?
<RichEd> hello pips1
<LaserJock> RichEd: when are you and ogra going over specs?
<RichEd> LaserJock: in 2.5 hours time
<Rictoo|SLP> how do I see my current kernel version?
<pips1> Rictoo: uname -v
<pips1> or you probably want the kernel release, which you get with "uname -r"
<pips1> ^^^ type that command into a text console (shell) :-)
<RichEd> pips1: he left already ... ducked in, asked, and ducked out again :(
<pips1> arg, I missed that
* pips1 feels silly
* RichEd thinks people who ask questions and leave are silly ... it costs the same to leave a channel window open for a while
<LaserJock> pips1: don't worry, I do that all the time
<pips1> LaserJock: :-)
<LaserJock> what would you guys call our 3 age ranges?
<LaserJock> well, or what age ranges do you think we should have for a set of applications
<LaserJock> I was thinking young, primray, secondary
<LaserJock> but perhaps there isn't much distinction between young and primary
<LaserJock> RichEd, pips1 ^^ ?
<RichEd> LaserJock: yep ... that does not fit with all nations naming of schools, but it is a universally understood set of brackets
<RichEd> I'd see 4 actually: young, primary, secondary and then the naming should go tertiary, but somehowe university seems more appropriate to me
<RichEd> *but* I think we are a way away from convincing Universities to install Edubuntu and not Ubuntu, so that target level will not be in our sights for a while
<LaserJock> well, it kinda depends
<LaserJock> if we could choose the artwork on install
<LaserJock> and I produces some decent uni-level metapackages
<LaserJock> I'd say Edubuntu would pretty much be ready to rock quite a few University labs
<LaserJock> of course stuff like network auth and some of the more corporate applications might not be ready yet
<LaserJock> but as far as the smallish (10-30 computer) labs I see often in Uni deparments I think we're not too bad off
* RichEd-1 b!tches about his ADSL reset ... what did I miss after:
<RichEd-1> <LaserJock> of course stuff like network auth and some of the more corporate applications might not be ready yet
<LaserJock> but as far as the smallish (10-30 computer) labs I see often in Uni deparments I think we're not too bad off
<RichEd> LaserJock: the points you raise are valid, but we need to sort out the "perception stuff" before we can push it ...
<RichEd> and by perception, I mean:
<RichEd> 1. desktop look & feel for older students
<RichEd> 2. menus for older students should not have the little kids stuff (or less prominent)
<RichEd> 3. the edubuntu web site needs to move up an age level and get and stay updated
<pips1> :-)
<LaserJock> RichEd: exactly
<LaserJock> but I think those aren't terribly hard things to do
<LaserJock> in the whole scheme of things
<RichEd> LaserJock: agree again, but i'd say that we "position ourselves" over the next release cycle, then give hard timelines for specific targets at release date, and then go for gold with 8.04
<LaserJock> sounds good
<RichEd> We're almost there, but we often wheelspin, so I think we need to be able to set a realistic date / time-frame, and nail it
<LaserJock> RichEd: got a sec to do a brief look over my spec?
<LaserJock> I need to go to bed but I'd like it in at least a reviewable state before I do so
<LaserJock> pips1: you too
<RichEd> sure ... where can I find it ?
<pips1> url?
<LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuAddonEnhancements
* pips1 reads
<RichEd> LaserJock: looks good, and is a significant need ... I'll make sure ogra and I give it high priority
<LaserJock> RichEd: do you think there needs to be any additional metapackages?
<RichEd> LaserJock: as per above, let's aim at the short list, and hit them properly. once the mechanisms are in place, we can extend the group
<LaserJock> alright, as long as you think it'll fly, I'm happy
<LaserJock> specs aren't so important for me as they are for the "employees"
<LaserJock> if I'm implementing a spec I'm going to add/subtract as I go along as I'm not good enough yet to be able to figure out all the implemention before I start doing it ;-)
<RichEd> just a comment, for milling around in the brain soup ... what about considering them as education-young, education-primary etc. so that they are meaningful for a dad who wants to install the packages on top of his ubuntu installation on his home PC ?
<RichEd> i.e. do they need to be tied into edubuntu ?
<LaserJock> hmm, let me check real quick, we might have a conflict with debian-edu
<LaserJock> yep
* RichEd is aware that we need to look at the whole naming thing carefully, especially the CD names have caused some confusion - like finding additional workstation applications on the Server Add-on CD
<LaserJock> education-* is taken by Debian-Edu metapackages
<RichEd> so let's go with edubuntu for the spec, but we can always change names if we come up with a cohesive approach
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> I'd almost rather we blacklist the Debian-Edu metapackages
<RichEd> ?? that sounds heavy ... what do you mean by that ?
<crimsun> why not consider carving up the namespace with the edubuntu- prefix (as I suppose RichEd alluded to)?
<LaserJock> it might not seem very nice, but I don't know that they're useful for us
<LaserJock> well, if we're trying to go more generic than edubuntu-
<LaserJock> then education- seems like the only obvious alternative
<RichEd> the longer view may be to consider naming the packages as: ubuntu-education-*
<RichEd> the approach forming now is that:
<LaserJock> but then I'm afraid of getting really really long package names
<LaserJock> I'd love to split secondary into content areas
<RichEd> edubuntu is the turnkey ubuntu bundle that give you a simple one-process install for education
<RichEd> ubuntu is a general base, to which you can add any or all of the education packages
<RichEd> but let me get that laid out clearly for discussion before we leap into the great beyond
<RichEd> so LaserJock for the moment, go simple ?
<crimsun> LaserJock: (long package names are not a constraint.  I -doubt- you'll hit even the 16-bit char limit.)
<LaserJock> well, no, not a technical constraint
<LaserJock> but I'm afraid of confusing people and making it just look bad in synaptic say
<crimsun> Err, I hope people read the descriptions foremost...
<LaserJock> hehe, that might be a bit of an assumption
<LaserJock> anyway, you're probably right
<LaserJock> at this point though, I don't foresee us putting very many apps in
<LaserJock> I want to use the Universe meta packages as "these are good apps we should think about putting on the CD" rather than "here is every app in Ubuntu for X"
<pips1> LaserJock: read your spec, sounds good. however, you might want to add a paragraph about "discussion points" <-- the meta package naming discussion (possible name space conflict with debian "education-" packages...)?
<LaserJock> pips1: I could, but then I'm admitting I don't know exactly what I'm doing ;-)
<pips1> don't start a flamewar in the wiki though :-)
<pips1> LaserJock: hehe
<pips1> LaserJock: ok, go for bold statement, then, that's close to the sabdfl's spirit anyway ;-)
<LaserJock> pips1: ok, reload it and look at the bottom
<pips1> LaserJock: well done
<LaserJock> ok, I'm going to leave it at that
<LaserJock> it's almost 2:00am
<LaserJock> good night everybody
* RichEd waves to LaserJock 
<pips1> highvoltage: I'm sorry I won't be able to attend the meeting, since I have another meeting, but I'm definitely interested in what you discuss about the edubuntu.org site (your template chages). I'll read the meeting log and get in touch via mail
<pips1> *changes
<RichEd> ogra or ogra-classmat1 : ping
<ogra-classmat1> RichEd: i'm here
<RichEd> hi there
<ogra-classmat1> trying to find wills spec overviviwe page
<RichEd> okie
<ogra-classmat1> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Devel/RoadMap
<ogra-classmat1> there we go
<RichEd> loading it now
<ogra-classmat1> oh,m there is one missing
<RichEd> which one is missing ?
<ogra-classmat1> ltspfs-virtual-hal-devices
<ogra-classmat1> just adding it
<ogra-classmat1> whoops, you got the lock
<RichEd> nah abandoned it ... you can grab the page ... i ws just checking if the table of contents was added automatically or if will put it in
<RichEd> *was
* ogra needs a bigger screen
<ogra> ok
* RichEd reloads
<ogra> my high prio list: ltsp-boot-performance, ldm-improvements, edubuntu-application-review, edubuntu-artwork-procedures
<ogra> my medium list: ltsp-update-manager-integration, ltspfs-virtual-hal-devices, edubuntu-addon-enhancements, edubuntu-menus-completion, edubuntu-documentation-procedures
<ogra> the rest would fall under low prio for me
<RichEd> ogra: check msg for some quick context
<highvoltage> ogra: good list
<RichEd> ogra: great ... my first question is how much of the LTSP stuff can we assume distro resources will take up ?
<highvoltage> ogra: did we perhaps discuss the dual-cd thing at uds? I'm coming down with a cold so my memory isn't very good atm. some users have been unhappy about the applications on the live cd not available on install
<RichEd> highvoltage: I'll need to add to the objectives or the spec list that we need to review the way the CDs are named and put together.
<highvoltage> RichEd: ok. that would be really nice
<ogra> highvoltage, dual-cd as in ubuntu server and edubuntu-addon ?
<RichEd> we'll need to bed that down in the next week or two, but I see that as rearrangement and not a new requirement per se
<ogra> or dual CD as in we need to fix that livecd ?
<RichEd> hi there mr vagrantc :)
<ogra> the first wont happen ... we'll likely even drop the ubuntu server Cd and have an LTSP feature on a new server DVD
<vagrantc> greetings
<ogra> the second one is a bug i talked with cjwatson about and we agreed to take care for it before release together
<ogra> hey vagrantc :)
<highvoltage> ogra: I meant, we just need to make it more straight-forward for the users, it's a bit confusing as it is at the moment (as you know, of course). I don't really mind so much in how it gets better, as long as it is kept in mind for the next release
<highvoltage> ogra: ok, great
<highvoltage> greetings vagrantc
<ogra> highvoltage, the liveCd will install everything the user sees on the desktop in gutsy
<ogra> you wiont need the addon for this
<vagrantc> ogra: what list are we looking at?
<RichEd> highvoltage: some of the issue is in the descriptions ...and we can solve this with some nice "how to get where you want to be" pages
<highvoltage> ogra: cool, that's perfect!
<ogra> so the naming can stay as is because it will be correct then
<ogra> we correct the world, not the docs ;)
<RichEd> that will be web site revision ... not needed as a spec ... but will need to taken care of.
<ogra> vagrantc, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Devel/RoadMap
<ogra> vagrantc,
<ogra> <ogra> my high prio list: ltsp-boot-performance, ldm-improvements, edubuntu-application-review, edubuntu-artwork-procedures
<ogra> <ogra> my medium list: ltsp-update-manager-integration, ltspfs-virtual-hal-devices, edubuntu-addon-enhancements, edubuntu-menus-completion, edubuntu-documentation-procedures
<ogra> <ogra> the rest would fall under low prio for me
<RichEd> ogra: a couple of people (as you have seen) asked why they need to use the Server CD to add applications to their workstation install. Will that also be resolved through the changes you anticipate ?
<ogra> RichEd, nope, but we can fix that in the CD menu with adding "(needs the addon cd)" for example
<ogra> that way its right in the face of the user
<vagrantc> ogra: do you group ldm-load-balancing in with ldm-improvements ?
<ogra> in the moment he nee4ds to know it
<ogra> vagrantc, oh, yes, i did ---
<ogra> i shouldnt
* RichEd nods and thinks that sounds okay
<ogra> locald balancong is mid-low to me
<ogra> could as well go into gutsy+1
<ogra> the general rewrite of ldm is way more important
<ogra> vagrantc, what was the specname of our spec for that ?
<RichEd> my comments: I'd like to move edubuntu-documentation procedures up to high priority
<ogra> we hd created a separate one
<vagrantc> ogra: ldm-load-balancing ?
<ogra> RichEd, even though we didnt hzave much input from the doc team yet ?
<ogra> ah, registered inder ltsp, thats why i dont find it
<RichEd> ogra: a couple of reasons ... #1 we need to get a "clockwork release cycle" to reduce the ad hoc last minute panics of gaps
<RichEd> panics *or* gaps
<RichEd> it is a pity if we have a quality product that is let down a bit by documentation (and I include web site in this)
* ogra just started some doc action on edubuntu-users
<ogra> i hope some community members will pick up
<RichEd> ogra: I think we will be able to arrange that, if they have a framework to work under ...
<RichEd> If they do not have a framework, then it goes ad hoc again. So I am not talking abou getting it all done for the next release, but getting a structure is a high priority
<RichEd> w.r.t. on the priorities list, could we perhaps look at priorities against future versions, with a longer view ...
<RichEd> so instead of labelling high/medium/low ...
<RichEd> we arrange them in gutsy/gutsy+1/gutsy+2
<RichEd> my specific example is that I think that: edubuntu-addon-enhancements, edubuntu-menus-completion : are almost non-negotiable for gutsy+1
<RichEd> if something is low priority now for the next release, then it stays low ... and can get missed again.
<RichEd> I'd like to see that we "prepare for edubuntu-addon-enhancements, edubuntu-menus-completion" in this relase cycle ... and then hit them for the next one ?
<ogra> right
<ogra> well
<RichEd> i.e. look at any obstacles now, and get those under control ... like that gnome menu bug or wobbly you mentioned
<RichEd> also then, it gives our audience an idea of what will arrive when ... pinned more accurately to a delivery ?
<ogra> i would tag mid prio stuff as "can be finished next release"
<ogra> and low prio stuff "if we find time"
<ogra> the high prio stuff has to be done by release imho
<RichEd> what about listing columns for releases, and arrranging features by release ...
<ogra> thats a LP feature
<RichEd> so what you call high is simply in the gutsy column as "definate"
<ogra> you can tag specs for releases
<RichEd> well for our planning then, I'll arrange as per releases ... and you can use the LP features to be consistent with the distro guys
<ogra> well, we need to use that LP feature anyway, else they will get ignored
<RichEd> perhaps we can allocate reponsibility that you manage the delivery of the current release cycle, and I'll look at managing the preparation for the *following* release cycle
<ogra> well, i'm fine going on with managing the tech specs
<RichEd> also a query: is moodle bundling covered in the application review process, or do we need to make it a specific target / spec ?
<ogra> the thing is that you have to approve/decline
<ogra> i dont think we need a spec for it ...
<ogra> btw
<RichEd> okay ... I'll keep it as a target ...
<ogra> moquist, what happened to your moodle packaging effort ?
<ogra> RichEd, i know moquist is/was on it ...
<RichEd> ^^ approve decline ... walk me though how this would work in practice ?
<ogra> add a distro target :)
<ogra> i'll go through them and set priorities
<ogra> after we agreed on proios indeed
<ogra> there is an approver set for every spec, we need to set this to you
<ogra> then you approve it for a release
<RichEd> okay ... and to confirm ... we need this finalised by end of tomorrow w.r.t. the ubuntu gutsy schedule ?
<ogra> no
<ogra> the deadline for specs is tomorrowq
<ogra> not the one for approval
<ogra> but we should have our prio list done now
<RichEd> so lets move to #ubuntu-meeting and continue in there ?
<ogra> approval can go on over the week
<ogra> let me get some fresh coffee :)
<ogra> 3mins
<RichEd> === edubuntu meeting === #ubuntu-meeting === in 3 mins ===
<moquist> ogra: thx for the ping. :)
<moquist> ogra: It's not dead, it's just...resting.
<moquist> ogra: I've put it on the evening-time schedule for tonight or tomorrow night.
<ogra> take your time, we just need to get it done this release :)
<moquist> ogra: But the longer I let it go, the less I remember (even if I did save my bash history, etc.).
<ogra> indeed
<moquist> ogra: I'm sufficiently caught up after returning that now's a good time to return to it.
<moquist> ogra: today I'm working more on the evil laptop, unless I get distracting word orders (always a possibility).
<moquist> avahi seems to do funky things to my network interfaces. I'm not sure what it is, but after I kill it things behave more like I expect them to...
<ogra> vagrantc, any proposals for the spec prio stuff ?
<ogra> (we're in #ubuntu-meeting btw)
<ace_suares> ogra!
<ogra> hey
<ace_suares> now you said, ldm patching would be easy, can we try it ?
<ace_suares> do I need to compile
<ogra> nope, its plain python
<ogra> try to catch Gadi in #ltsp, he has a patch
<ace_suares> okay going to #ltsp
<ogra> its actually just setting the DISPLAY variable to the
<ogra> thin client ip
<vagrantc> and not using -X
<ogra> right
<RichEd> ace_suares: I'd be interested in chatting further on how we could work together ...
<RichEd> give me a week to finalise our goals, objectives and actions for the rest of this year, and then I will share them with you and you can comment
<sbalneav> Morning all
<RichEd> hi sbalneav
<cliebow> Scottie:!!!!
<_46> Just installed edubuntu, ti's great
<highvoltage> _46: :)
<_46> Thank you for the acknowdgement :D
<_46> this is my 1st. day on this channel.
<highvoltage> _46: welcome to edubuntu!
<highvoltage> _46: sometimes we may take a while te respond, but whenever you need help, just give us a shout and hang around
<_46> ok, thank you
<highvoltage> you're welcome.
<_46> I've only been using Linux for less than 6 months, and I type with the 2 index fingers.
<highvoltage> are you a teacher? or installed at home?
<moquist> ogra: I'm sitting here with a feisty system defaulting to "US English". It uses A4 papersize for any new printers I set up.
<moquist> ogra: I mention this just because we discussed it @UDS.
<_46> installed at home, no teacher
* moquist drops in an lpoptions file to take care of things
<_46> I am not affraid to open a box and check it for hardware etc.
<_46> I do little things like change out hard drives or memory sticks...
<_46> Have been known to change OS 2 or3 times a day, my installs must be perfect...
<_46>  I have to go away now, till later...
<RichEd> ogra: pingidy ping
<RichEd> comment at leisure or sendme an email on the following:
* ogra listens
<RichEd> #1 are there any specs left over from feisty or edgy that we need to revive for gutsy
<RichEd> #2 I'm making an action to tidy out the old LP pecs (for a task to do soon) and have also asked will to add it to the version cycle requirements
<RichEd> LP specs ... not pectorals
<jsgotangco> hi!
<RichEd> hello jsgolatindancing
<jsgotangco> huh?
<jsgotangco> you're into ballroom dancing?
<RichEd> tango ... bad pun
* RichEd has to leave for a work function with the ball & chain ...\
<RichEd> bye for today peops
<ogra> ciao
<pips1_away> good evening
<LaserJock> bah
<LaserJock> is RichEd gone?
<ogra-classmate> yep
<LaserJock> I think the doc spec is sort of a weird thing
<LaserJock> all that needs to be done is for Edubuntu docs efforts to fall in line with the general Doc Team
<LaserJock> they already have the framework
<LaserJock> and by the end of Feisty we were pretty much there
<LaserJock> we were just a bit behind ;-)
<LaserJock> I'm not sure why we even need that doc spec
<ogra-classmate> well, if he wants it, give it to him and set it to implemented in a week :P
<ogra-classmate> but i think he thinks beyond docteam ...
<ogra-classmate> i.e. the contributor side and how to organize that
<LaserJock> well, whatever, like you said, I'll give it to him ;-)
<LaserJock> ogra-classmate: crimsun and I had a talk about gcompris last night
<LaserJock> it looks to me like gcompris only needs gnuchess at runtime
<LaserJock> I don't know why it's in the ./configure script
<LaserJock> it has a hard coded path to gnuchess
<LaserJock> I'm going to just patch it to look for gnome-gnuchess from gnome-games and see if that works
<LaserJock> rather than rip out all the gnuchess stuff
<LaserJock> you'd think they would have a configure flag to disable it, but no
<ogra-classmate> tsk
<LaserJock> they just have:
<LaserJock> gnuchess_bin = g_build_filename( exec_prefix, "bin", "gnuchess", NULL);
<LaserJock> so I think I can remove the build dep on any chess
<LaserJock> and change the above line to look for gnome-gnuchess
<quintin> Is there anything in edubuntu for managing the length of login sessions on public computers?
<LaserJock> Quintin: I don't think there is a particular tool yet for that
<LaserJock> Quintin: it's a fairly often requested feature
<Quintin> well dammit make it already
<Quintin> I've made something that sort of works in perl
<Quintin> in combination with the "slay" program.  It's hardly professional though
<ogra> LaserJock, yes, and i got this code from linus for it he refused to license :(
<LaserJock> ogra: for what? the timer?
<ogra> yes
<LaserJock> that's too bad
<ogra> a little c proggy running in his daughters session
<Quintin> ogra: what did you get from Linus?
<ogra-classmate> a proggy to restrict login time
<Quintin> why not just rewrite it then? :p
<Quintin> I don't see why he wouldn't license it
<ogra-classmate> he didnt like to care about it ...
<ogra-classmate> (about anything related to it... he didnt answer my mails anymore at some point and i didnt want to be pushy)
<ogra-classmate> it should become a TCM plugin and should be trivial to implement now that we have python-tcm
<Quintin> well, get on it!
<Quintin> I'm in a library now full of Windoze machines with cybrarian
<Quintin> meh
<ogra-classmate> after i did the three million other things, yes :)
<ogra-classmate> we have a slight lack of developers in edubuntu
<LaserJock> Quintin: you want to help everybody out and work on it?
<LaserJock> that would be a cool thing
<Quintin> I'm a very bad coder.  nothing I have made is fit for public consumption
<LaserJock> hehe, I can understand
<LaserJock> I'm a Chemist and I think sometimes my programming reflects it
<Quintin> if my perl thing ever gets practical, I'd release it under GPL
<Quintin> bye for now
<LaserJock> ogra-classmate: blah, I found it, this is going to be easyish :-)
<LaserJock> the build dep actually does do something
<ogra-classmate> ah
<LaserJock> it just has a fallback to a hard-coded path
<LaserJock> ok, in a few minutes I should have a .deb to test
<john_s> hello all I have a question about large memory support, does anyone care to talk about that?
<LaserJock> I'm not sure, you can just ask and see if anybody knows
* ogra-classmate thinks he just answered the thread in -users :)
<ogra-classmate> john_s: thats your mail thread, right ?
<LaserJock> ogra-classmate: have you seen any recent reviews/stories on Edubuntu?
<ogra-classmate> nope
<LaserJock> any for Feisty?
<ogra-classmate> will might be a better bet
<LaserJock> hmm, yeah
* LaserJock kicks gcompris-data
<LaserJock> go faster!
<ogra-classmate> LaserJock: get your classmate and you will not complain anymore :P
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> hopefully it's comings sson
* ogra-classmate calls it a day
<LaserJock> ogra-classmate: I should have a debdiff for you in a little bit
<LaserJock> I'll send it in an email
<john_s> Hi ogra-classmate
<john_s> are you stil there?
<john_s> I do see your response on the list, but I am running the edubuntu server edition
<john_s> unless I had a complete brain freeze
<john_s> after all thats the only version of edubuntu with LTSP built in, isn't it?
<LaserJock> I think so yes
<john_s> thanks
<LaserJock> john_s: was he talking about the Desktop CD?
<john_s> perhaps
<john_s> I think I am going to have to recompile the kernel to get high memory support
<john_s> strange but true
<john_s> well, perhaps not true, but that's my impression right now.
<LaserJock> let me go read his email real quick
<john_s> thanks
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> well, we have several kernels
<LaserJock> he meant to get the -server kernel
<john_s> great
<LaserJock> not install the the server disk
<john_s> ok, sounds good. So what ships with the server edition of edubuntu?
<LaserJock> confusing terminology
<LaserJock> I think the normal Ubuntu kernel
<john_s> hmm
<john_s> ok
<john_s> Thanks
<LaserJock> as and LTSP server is essentially an Ubuntu desktop
<john_s> where should I go to find the server kernel
<LaserJock> it's in the repos
<LaserJock> just use synaptic or apt-get
<john_s> ok
<john_s> thanks
<sbalneav> To get high memory support, you'll want the linux-image-server package
<john_s> ok
<john_s> will I loose ltsp functionality do you think?
<sbalneav> no
<john_s> hurray
<sbalneav> That will just install a kernel that will support > 4G
<john_s> ok, and ideally all of the other switches that were thrown for the stock kernel will be thrown for this one as well
<john_s> ?
<sbalneav> Should be.
<john_s> ok, I'll see what I get
<john_s> thanks for your help
<sbalneav> NP
<john_s> ok
<john_s> sorry one more question
<john_s> do i want linux-image-server or linux-image-server-bigiron
<john_s> synaptic isn't very descriptive in this cas
<LaserJock> hmm, I'm not sure what bigiron is
<LaserJock> I'd guess you'd want just -server
<john_s> ok
<john_s> Yeah, big iron to me is a mainframe
<john_s> Is there a place where I could go to find stuff out about the various kernels?
<sbalneav> Big iron's got all the stuff compiled in for >64 cpu's, or for running on an E390
<john_s> ok
<john_s> not me then
<john_s> thanks
<sbalneav> I think the joke would be, "if you have to ask if you need the bigiron kernel, you don't need the bigiron kernel" :)
<john_s> heh
<ace_suares> it hink -server is for 'Server Equipment' and I thinks that's different from standard intel 686 stuff
<ace_suares> altough I happen to be running -server on one of my dual xeons... it seems to work.
<Pyld> Anyone using Edubuntu/Ubuntu as diskless clients?
<LaserJock> Pyld: do you have a particular problem?
<Pyld> LaserJock: I have problems with NFS mounts. I have a separate rootfs for each diskless client and a shared /usr that is mounted ro, but the clients stalls for about 1 minute during the mount and Ubuntu prints Failed even if /usr is mounted.
<Pyld> I have tried Debian 4.0 as well and do not experience such problems so my NFS setup is okay on the server
<Pyld> I have checked with rpcinfo -p <hostname>. rpc.lockd, rpc.statd and portmap is running on the diskless client.
<Pyld> the server setup also seems okay. By the way, if I try to mount /usr after the diskless client finally have booted I do not experience such delays. /usr is mounted instantly. It is just during boot
<LaserJock> Pyld: boy, I haven't really done anything with NFS
<LaserJock> so I don't have much of anything to offer
<LaserJock> Pyld: but perhaps the edubuntu-users mailing list might be a good place to try
<LaserJock> there are quite a few people there that might know
<Pyld> LaserJock: okay, I will try.
<moquist> ogra-classmate: jammcq's 4.2 kernel config saved me about 62 seconds on this craptop
<moquist> ogra-classmate: Now I'm down to 184 seconds from DHCP->login prompt
<moquist> ogra-classmate: gtk (the C implementation) still uses almost all the processor it can get for 60-70 seconds every time.
* moquist is toying with the idea of a console-based login screen, either curses or not
<moquist> I guess that looks crappy, or something.
<LaserJock> well, it might be worth a shot
<LaserJock> but if you need a console-based login screen isn't running a desktop going to be a problem?
<LaserJock> or is it just on the clients end?
#edubuntu 2007-05-31
<gwar> does anyone know about "perl: warning: setting locale failed" while running ltsp-build-kernel on a powerpc
<gwar> ?
<gwar> does anyone know about "perl: warning: setting locale failed" while running ltsp-build-kernel on a powerpc
<gwar> ?
<_46> On another box, I was installing edubuntu, at % a notice saidmemory too low mode80
<_46> so, I shut the install down and now the monitor is blank, does that mean my CR2032 battery on mother board id dead?
<mindslant> Hi, I'm working on a proposal for a school I was just hired into to finally use all there donated computers.  Of course I chose edubuntu (it's wonderful)  Does anyone know of any resources I might use for the presentation?
<mindslant> I guess first things first, is anyone here?
<kgoetz> hang around, someoen might be abel to help you
<mindslant> I can for a bit
<mindslant> I've never run a large network either.  I'm thinking I'll need to plug the modem into an edubuntu server, server to big switch box, to all the clients.  I'm guessing at spending about $300.
<mindslant> I'm I kinda close or way off
<mindslant> *Am I
<kgoetz> depends how many clients, if you have cables, what teh switch is, etc
<mindslant> Yeah, I figured a lot of variable would come into it
<mindslant> I'm thinking ~20-30 clients per room (i.e. server) on cables (cat-5)
<kgoetz> switches come in 24 then 48 ports
<mindslant> If I'm not running a thin-client scenario, what is the purpose of the server?
<kgoetz> usually +2 or +4 for uplinks
<mindslant> I know there a lot of noob questions, I've just never run large networks
<kgoetz> there isnt one. unless you create a erason
<kgoetz> and you can run all the rooms back to a central serrver, if thats sane for you, otherwise  aserver per room or set of rooms
<mindslant> So just modem to big switch box huh?  Much simpler.  I'm gaining confidence by the second.  Uh...+2 or  +4 <---what do the numbers mean?
<mindslant> No big server, no budget
<kgoetz> +2 or +4 ports on switches
<kgoetz> depends on the switch
<mindslant> Oh okay
<kgoetz> what sort of modem?
<kgoetz> servers can also == proxies
<kgoetz> which may be important in a schooll......
<mindslant> I appreciate you answering all my silly little quandries.  Proxies are?
<kgoetz> used for filtering and speeding up the connection
<kgoetz> questions are ok, if they help you make a good impression :)
<mindslant> Well right now I'm the 6-9 social studies guy.  They saw my comp. sci background and want a computer guy.  I want to be a linux guy.  It's all coming together
<mindslant> So a high speed line comes into the building.  I put that in a proxie.  The Proxie hooks up to switches which hook up to more switches which are located in each class room?
<kgoetz> if i wasnt at work, i'd be able to just help you atm
<mindslant> Your at work now...thx for the dedication helping
<kgoetz> im sort of flicking back and forth between you and our servers ;)
<mindslant> So does the reasoning above make sense?
<kgoetz> more or less. not knowing any details of the network i cant be 100% 'yeh thats it' of course
<mindslant> Yeah, I know I'm just trying to get the concept.
<kgoetz> thats abotu it
<mindslant> Well good news, I really appreciate it.  I'll just figure out how proxies work and I'm in business kind of
<kgoetz> look at http://help.ubuntu.com/community/SquidGuard
<kgoetz> it should be pretty much it :)
<kgoetz> i used that and a bit extra at my work
<kgoetz> my other work ;)
<mindslant> Thx :).  I wikipediad Proxies and I get their purpose, now for the details.
<kgoetz> see above:)
<mindslant> I think I can stumble along quickly enough that they won't realize I'm not sure what I"m doing and fire me.
<kgoetz> remember to come and ask. its teh key thing. and loko in the wiki. fair bit of help there and teh site above
<mindslant> Can do sir.  I'll let you get back to your real work.  Really, thanks a lot.
<kgoetz> its ok, i'm working atm ;)
<kgoetz> and if your asking for help, expect to wait a bit
<kgoetz> people arnt always around
<mindslant> Do you work for ubuntu?  Or a school?
<kgoetz> i use ubuntu at a community centre
<mindslant> Either it stays open late or your accross the ocean from Texas
<kgoetz> heh. the world does corss teh water ;)
<kgoetz> *cross
<mindslant> I meant you've got to live on another continent
<kgoetz> yes, i'm in australia
<mindslant> We think of Australia as the bigger Texas
<kgoetz> ... i'im not sure how i'mi going to take that
<mindslant> It's a compliment.  Every Australian I've met I've naturally got along with.  We love you guys
<mindslant> Lots of similar mindsets usually
<kgoetz> long as its a good thing
<mindslant> I hope to visit someday.
<mindslant> It's late here though, I just needed to spitball some ideas to make sure I wasn't about to bite off more than I could chew or that I wasn't way off track.  I really appreciate all the help. g'night sir.
<kgoetz> later mate, sleep well :)
<fxch> I just got a problem when I install Edubuntu yesterday. Could anybody help me?
<kgoetz> tell us teh problem, and if someone is able and available tehy will help you
<fxch> After I configured the keyboard, the installer checked the CD and told me the CD didn't contain a complete distro
<fxch> It happened before the picture of 'IP address' of http://www.edubuntu.org/GettingStarted
<kgoetz> is it a custom cd?
<fxch> What do you mean 'custom cd'?
<fxch> I received them from 'shipit.kubuntu.com'
<kgoetz> edubuntu from kubuntu shipit?
<fxch> Sorry, it is 'shipit.edubuntu.com'
<fxch> Does anyone can solve this problem?
<fxch> Sorry, poor english
<kgoetz> i'm confused by your error - i havent heard of it before
<fxch> I even can't believe it. But it happened
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
* #edubuntu  [freenode-info]  channel flooding and no channel staff around to help? please check with freenode support: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp
<RichEd> hey nixternal ... doin' okay ?
<LaserJock> hi RichEd
<LaserJock> he seems to be having issues today
<RichEd> hi LaserJock ... I picked up your comment on the doc spec yesterday.
<LaserJock> mhm
<RichEd> I must go through it, but my request to Will was basically:
<RichEd> draw up a timeline based process for each dev cycle that indicates what doc work must be done and when, with "triggers" to make sure we start the work in good time.
<RichEd> It should include things like "prepare release notes" "ensure that old dosc on wiki / web are updated" "clean out old LP specs that are no longer relevant" etc.
<RichEd> Not just tech doc, but all docs asociated with a cycle.
<LaserJock> yeah, you can get a bit more detailed like that
<RichEd> And the "rule is" dock into ubuntu processes, try not to splinter.
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> we got that going at the end of Feisty I think pretty well
<RichEd> Same as artwork one basically, all about making a sausage machine, and less of a ad hoc seat of the panties.
<LaserJock> we just had to blow off the doc string freeze because we were trying to get the first release going
<LaserJock> but things like release notes and wiki updating is good
<LaserJock> probably will need website update as well
<LaserJock> RichEd: did you or ogra happen to prioritize the specs on the Roadmap wiki page?
<LaserJock> I was going to suggest when he had his list of high, medium, and low that we should actually do that in the wiki page as well
<LaserJock> blah, I gotta get to bed
<LaserJock> silly research
<LaserJock> don't they know I've got specs to impliment? ;-)
* RichEd-1 must remember to set his ADSL rest time to something a tad less *annoying* !
<RichEd-1> *reset
<RichEd> <LaserJock> we just had to blow off the doc string freeze because we were trying to get the first release going
<RichEd> did I miss anything after that ?
<LaserJock> but things like release notes and wiki updating is good
<LaserJock> probably will need website update as well
<LaserJock> RichEd: did you or ogra happen to prioritize the specs on the Roadmap wiki page?
<LaserJock> I was going to suggest when he had his list of high, medium, and low that we should actually do that in  the wiki page as well
<LaserJock> blah, I gotta get to bed
<LaserJock>  silly research
<LaserJock> don't they know I've got specs to impliment? ;-)
<RichEd> yep ... the more defined tasks we have, the more places that volunteers can pick up a ball to help
<LaserJock> there, that's what you midded
<LaserJock> *missed
<pips1> good morning
<RichEd> hi pips1 nixternal HedgeMage
<HedgeMage> hi RichEd
<pips1> hi all
<RichEd> ping pips1
<pips1> pong RichEd
<Paul_UK> hi, is there much difference between edubuntu and ubuntu server 7.04, with server edition having ltsp installed?
<RichEd> Paul_UK: ogra can answer that best ... te main difference is the \education apps
<RichEd> *the
<Paul_UK> ok, its just that i have a server running, ltsp is installed and im using the quickstart guide, but now i cant run any clients because of errors, such as : yeah - warning : xrdb command not found; X resources not merged and unable to start X session --- no "/home/paul/.xsession" file, no session managers, no windows managers, no terminal emulators found
<Paul_UK> not sure where to go next.
<Paul_UK> does edubuntu come with a gui, or is it cli based ?
<pips1> Paul_UK: what do you mean by gui? do you mean a desktop environment and graphical applications?
<Paul_UK> yep
<pips1> There is the edubuntu-desktop debian package... which will provide a gnome desktop environment and educational applications
<RichEd> Paul_UK: let me get you the link for the LTSP documentation
<Paul_UK> RichEd: you mean the quickstart guide?
<RichEd> the whole list ... brb ...\
<Paul_UK> RichEd: ok cool
<RichEd> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP
<RichEd> there you go ...
<RichEd> note also that you can get good help in #ltsp as this is the core LTSP we bundle
<Paul_UK> oh, i know abot that
<Paul_UK> *about
<RichEd> most folks there are on US time though
<Paul_UK> no disrespect, but that documentation is a joke
<RichEd> Paul_UK: none taken ... give us feedback ... what's good what's bad what's ugly
<Paul_UK> i got an ubuntu server up and running, got dhcp setup and installed ltsp following the quickstart guide.  but now i have a client starting up with pxe and its looking like there is no x-session manager installed.  of which i cant find no mention, of how to administrate "published" thin client desktops.
<Paul_UK> coming from a citrix background, well after an hour of working with ubuntu server and ltsp, i wanted to beat someone in the street lol.
<Paul_UK> 1 thin client doesnt work because of this : warning : xrdb command not found; X resources not merged and unable to start X session --- no "/home/paul/.xsession" file, no session managers, no windows managers, no terminal emulators found
<Paul_UK> so any help would be greatly appricated, otherwise i will download edubuntu
<RichEd> our tech types take stuff for granted ... do to them beiing close to the coal face
<RichEd> what I can tell you is that LTSP was born in Edubuntu ... and was built as a one process Edubuntu install
<RichEd> LTSP is now being generalised to Ubuntu ... and you are in the cusp period
<RichEd> the focus on this is ramping up
<RichEd> So *my suggestion* would be to install Edubuntu LTSP ... and play around with that ...
<Paul_UK> hmm, yeah i understand that.  its just i would love to have this installed in a production environment for next month
<RichEd> Then go vanilla Ubuntu if you need to as a 2nd attempt.
<RichEd> And by all means, bitch about the missing links ... but do so via email to the edubuntu-devel mail list so we can address.
<pips1> Paul_UK: if you want to setup an LTSP server setup, it might be easier to go via edubuntu just now
<Paul_UK> pips1: thats the conclusion im coming to, so yeah will just do that
<RichEd> Paul_UK: I've been asked to clarify my broad statement above ...
<Paul_UK> clarify?
<RichEd> The Ubuntu effort to build an LTSP environment stared with the education project  - ogra to be precise
<RichEd> We did not start LTSP ... which my earlier comment seemed to imply
<Paul_UK> oh i realise that.
<Paul_UK> I find its great you guys picked up LTSP and are wanting to bundle it with Ubuntu.
<RichEd> Ubuntu tackled getting an LTSP implementation into place to address low spec h/w in resource strapped schools.
<Paul_UK> Its just that, going to the server page, it states that LTSP is ready to go for server edition.
<Paul_UK> maybe the wording needs to be changed.
<RichEd> The distro team is in the process of taking on an LTSP dedicated reource for Ubuntu ...
<RichEd> *resource
<RichEd> He will look at some of those gaps
<Paul_UK> ok, well let me take a look at Edubuntu and then monitor the progress made for the server + ltsp
<RichEd> Right now, ogra would be able to help you ... and if somone could document the hand-holding required, that would give us a good Gap analysis
* RichEd is back in 30 mins
<cbx33> anyone got any experience with firewalls?
<ogra> Paul_UK, sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop
<ogra> Paul_UK, you need a desktop session to log in to ...
<ogra> unless you want something special like a fullscreen xterm or something, then just set LDM_REMOTECMD=xterm or so ...
<ogra> (in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf)
<Paul_UK> ok, thanks will take a look
<ogra> Paul_UK, the docs we have are suited for any normal ubuntu desktop install indeed sorry, its an assumption that users knw they need a desktop on the server side, i will fix the docs
<Paul_UK> ogra, its cool.  i knew i needed a desktop, but didnt know how to go about it.  im totally new to ubuntu and ltsp, can really only do basic stuff with linux lol
<Paul_UK> ogra, does edubuntu have this all configured and a desktop ready to go?
<ogra> we're workig on a solution or the server CD by adding the necessary packages but there are some business related probs with that (desktop on long term supported releases will have only 3 years of support while server has 5 so puting these on a CD together is problematic) once these are properly solved we will just have an "install LTSP server" in the server installer
<ogra> Paul_UK, yep, if yu have a two network card setup everything will work out of th box in edubuntu
<ogra> if you have only one NIC you need to configure /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf to match the IP of that one NIC
<Paul_UK> ogra: good news to hear about the install LTSP option.  also i have 2 networking cards in the box.  another question, is the LTSP manager in edubuntu or do i need to download and install that?
<ogra> ltsp manager isnt functional yet
<ogra> its only a proof of concept mockup
<Paul_UK> ahhh ok
<Paul_UK> hehe just noticed the alpha comment
<ogra> in feisty we introduced python-ltsp, it provides all backend functions for ltsp manager, in gutsy i'll connect the gui with the backend stuff
<ogra> so in october there will be something functional
<Paul_UK> cool
<Paul_UK> ok well im downloading edubuntu, hopefully i can get something working soon. i really need up to 40/50 thinclients locally and maybe 20 clients remotely by july.
<cbx33> ogra: did I tell you we have someone interested in working on the KDE front end to TCM?
<ogra> cbx33, i met some people in spain who expressed interest, who is it ?
<cbx33> Yuriy
<ogra> ah, right he said that before in here i think
<cbx33> yeh
<rc55> Hello! :) - I'm working for a small youth club with 10 Windows XP systems and I need a way to block adult / myspace style sites - does anyone have any suggestions? I could quite easily put in a new server to act as a proxy if needed.
<rc55> I was just curious as to whether there was a standard way of doing things.
<Paul_UK> rc55, your router could have a word list to use to block sites.  otherwise use something like dansguardian with squid proxy
<rc55> Paul_UK: funnily enough I could possibly use Ubuntu Christian Edition!
<LaserJock> ogra: get my gcompris email?
* LaserJock whistles innocently in the corner
<ogra> LaserJock, i'll get to that tonight, currently i'm poking around in ltsp
<Paul_UK> hey there, is there anyway to troubleshoot dhcp server not starting up?  i've change the interface to eth1, eth1 has a static ip, and the dhcpd.conf is setup.  but its not working.  can anyone suggest anything?
<Paul_UK> *its not starting up
<ogra> it should autodetect the right interace if you didnt fiddle around in /etc/defaults
<ogra> *interface
<Paul_UK> :) ok will remove what i put in
<ogra> paste your /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf and the ourput of ifconfig -a to a pastebot
<ogra> *output
<Paul_UK> ah, theres me editing /etc/dhcpd3/dhcpd.conf
<Paul_UK> and now dhcpd3 starts
<LaserJock> ogra: great, I think as soon as gcompris and tuxpaint go through I'll submit my core-dev application
<Paul_UK> and now my pxe client boots up
<Paul_UK> thanks ogra
<ogra> :)
<Paul_UK> well since you are on.  any documentation to setup thinclients?  i have the same issue where i need to install the desktop, so im guessing its yum install ubuntu-desktop?
<ogra> well
<ogra> s/yum/apt-get/ :)
<LaserJock> ogra: you sure you don't want to use yum?
<LaserJock> it's tasty
<Paul_UK> is the client the same as the desktop iso?
<ogra> LaserJock, never tried to be honest, i'm happy with what i got
<LaserJock> ogra: I don't blame you :-)
<ogra> gar, ltsp-build-client fails on usplash
<Paul_UK> ogra? is the apt-get ubuntu-desktop the same as getting the iso?  as im sure i'll break the server and dont want to keep on downloading 470mb
<ogra> Paul_UK, ubuntu-desktop is on the alternate CD, get that one
<Paul_UK> cool thanks
* ogra starts over with gutsy ltsp
<ogra> *sigh*
<LaserJock> uh oh
<Paul_UK> good luck
* ogra is eager to see the X improvements, it could be that we can get rid of the X detection (slowest part of the boot)
<LaserJock> ah, cool
<Paul_UK> so ogra, is there some documentation or do people bug you all the time :P
<ogra> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-users/2007-May/001059.html
<ogra> Paul_UK, ^^^
<tristan_> lala
<tristan_> do you ppl only talk about edubuntu?
<Paul_UK> yes
<tristan_> :(
<tristan_> so when i bother you with news about my gaybike you kick my ass?
<tristan_> actually gaybike isn't a good name
<tristan_> have to give it another name
<Paul_UK> gaylord bike?
<tristan_> http://fotos.marktplaats.nl/kopen/e/31/z.133bcfee7cac89eb036125488464ec2e.jpg <= that one
<tristan_> thought about spacebike too
<tristan_> to confuse the police
<tristan_> :P
<tristan_> so I don't need insurance and license crap
<tristan_> and a vehicle registration plate
<tristan_> ok
<tristan_> sorry for this offtopic shit
<tristan_> how do I run ubuntu on it? :P
<tristan_> edubuntu, sorry
<tristan_> ohw wait.. I have stickers :)
<LaserJock> mmmm, free hotdogs and hamburgers at the uni today
<Paul_UK> hmm nice
<Paul_UK> wish i was there
<Paul_UK> oooooohhh yes
<Paul_UK> i have a thin client
<Paul_UK> ogra, am i right in saying, the thinclients take their desktop from the server?
<ogra> right
<Paul_UK> ok.
<Paul_UK> oh ogra, two more things.  have you ever used thinstation with this and what protocol does edubuntu use, rdp, ica, nx ?
<ogra> ssh
* ogra just got dinner ... back later
<sbalneav> Paul_UK: X tunnelled over ssh
<Paul_UK> right, i have no way to compare that, as i dont know x over ssh..  is it heavy on the bandwidth?
<Paul_UK> and can you turn off the ssh?  to save on that bandwidth consumption?
<sbalneav> Well, I guess the first question is, what are you trying to run over, a lan?
<sbalneav> X is pretty bandwidth intensive.
<Paul_UK> damn
<sbalneav> Stub your toe?
<Paul_UK> hehe yeah pretty much
<Paul_UK> its over a lan, but really wanting something lightweight like rdp or ica
<LaserJock> I think in general over lan X is faster
<sbalneav> Well, RDP is a Windows only protocol, and ICA is not only windows only, but propriatary to Citrix.
<Paul_UK> sbalneav: ica is used by 2x, as far as i know.
<sbalneav> If you're worried about bandwidth on your main backbone, the simplest, and easiest way around that is simply to put two ethernet cards in one machine.  Hang the terminals off the second lan card.
<sbalneav> Paul_UK: they're using the "free" ica client to connect to windows citrix boxes.
<Paul_UK> yeah
<sbalneav> You can't connect to a Linux machine with ica.
<Paul_UK> i agree with the 2nd card, thats what im doing, but im going to have 40 thinclients, but also wanting to do voip as well.
<sbalneav> Well, either way, you'd be looking at updating your backbone.
<sbalneav> Is is gigE now?
<Paul_UK> if it needs to be, its max 4GB
<sbalneav> Well, that should be ok
<Paul_UK> hey silly question, whilst i think about it.  can you set specific desktops to groups?
<lynn_> i'm having trouble w/ ltsp
<lynn_> anybody know how to netboot a powerpc thinclient?
<Paul_UK> thru pxe?
<ogra> you need a special dhcpd.conf
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/dhcpd.conf
<ogra> use that one as base
<ogra> lynn_, ^^^
<lynn_> thanks, i'll try it
<ogra> :)
<Paul_UK> ogra, is there a way to turn off ssh?
<ogra> Paul_UK, you can use XDMCP with the loss odf all security and most of the features (sound/local devices)
<Paul_UK> oh need the sound.
<Paul_UK> ok last question, can you set a desktop to a group?
<lynn_> ogra, do you know what command i should use to boot the thin-client?
<lynn_> from yaboot?
<ogra> there is a key combo you have to press to make  ppc netboot, i dont know it from the top of my head its a while ago i had to poke on ppc
<lynn_> i held down "n", and it flashed a globe for a sec, but then fell back to the hard-drive
<lynn_> ogra, did that dhcpd.conf work for you?
<ogra> lynn_, yes
<john_s> Hi all,
<ogra> hey
<john_s> Are they're any LTSP guru's local to the NW US on this channel?
<john_s> Hey Ogra
<john_s> Thanks for the help yesterday
<ogra> NW like in north west ?
<john_s> yes
<ogra> there are some in the east ... maine michigan etc
<john_s> I am wondering if anyone else is doing this thing within eyeball distance of me
<john_s> yeah, I know that LTSP isn't folks main focus here, but I thought I would ask :)
<ogra> well, i just dont know any from the westcoast but that doesnt mean there arent any :)
<john_s> yeah
<john_s> fair enough
<john_s> what part of the world are you in?
<lynn_> ogra, did you have to have to specify the hosts specifically in the dhcpd.conf?
<ogra> lynn_, i used the file i gave to you 1:1
<ogra> john_s, germany
<ogra> but 1/3 of the year travelling arond (at least it feels like that)
<john_s> Lucky you! I won't bug you anymore sounds like your busy and so am I
<john_s> Ah well hopefully thats fun for you?
<ogra> indeed it is
<john_s> kewl
<ogra> building edubuntu and promoting it is the best job i can imagine ;)
<john_s> I would imagine so, it seems like a neat, eclectic crowd
<john_s> also good for the world, which is a rare and happy thing
<john_s> ok, bye and thanks!
<lynn_> ogra, did you get it working with a mac?  i may be doing something else wrong
<Meshezabeel> heya, I am creating some language learning software and need to use the Canadian Aboriginal Unicode fonts that are under Character Map. In edubuntu 6.10 none of them show up, in 7.04, some of them show up, but not all of them. What do I need to do to get all of them to show up? For example 1401 through 1406 show up, then 1407 to 1409 are missing, etc.
<ogra> lynn_, yes, i got it working with a mac ... what did you do so far ?
<ogra> Meshezabeel, if you know font names (instead of numbers) you might be able to find them in synaptic
<lynn_> i got an i386 thin client running properly, then did the ltsp-build-kernel on an old mac, it said it built it successfully, but we can't get the ppc thin-clients running
<Meshezabeel> ogra, in Character map it shows up as "Canadian Aboriginal" doesn't this mean the font is installed on the computer if it knows it's name?
<lynn_> i replaced the dhcp.conf with the one u gave me, restarted the dhcp3-server successfully, but still cannot boot any macs
<ogra> Meshezabeel, try: sudo dpkg-reconfigure fontconfig -> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=170141
<ogra> lynn_, how did you build your client for the ppc ?
<lynn_> i mounted the /opt/ltsp file on a powerpc from the server, then ran ltsp-build-client
<ogra> ok
<ogra> you need ltsp-server installed on your server as well
<ogra> and run ltsp-update-kernels and ltsp-udate-sshkeys
<lynn_> i think i already did that, but i'll try again, thanks
<ogra> http://elliot.ecowizards.com/wp/archives/2006/05/18/ltsp-booting-old-mac-hardware/
<ogra> thats a bit better than the wii doc
<ogra> *wiki
<ogra> seems the wiki instructions dont wokr on all macs (they are from an G4 ibook)
<lynn_> ok ogra, i just tried what u said and i got a "can't read elf" error.  I'll check out that wiki
<Meshezabeel> thanks ogra
<ogra> cant read elf ? that sounds like a wrong architecture
<ogra> are yu sure you got a powerpc chroot in /opt/ltsp ? not i386 ?
<lynn_> both folders are in there, how do I make it point to ppc?
<ogra> the dhcpd.conf "root-path" needs to point to powerpc for the ppc clients
<lynn_> i'm using the one u gave me and it does that for sure
* racter is in the lab working with lynn_ on this
<racter> ogra do you have a sample yaboot.conf that you used?
<racter> could it be a problem w/that?  we are just using whatever was generated by ltsp-build-client
<ogra> hmm, not handy, the script should have generated one though
<ogra> so how far does your boot get ? do you see any kernel messages or does it already hang in openfirmware ?
<lynn_> can't read elf
<racter> it just hangs in open firmware
* ogra hasnt touched his ppc since ubuntu dropped official support
<ogra> (read since 7 months or so)
<ogra> racter, i think there is a way t boot from opefirmware in verbose mode so you could see more errors (not sure though)
<tristan_> anyone here who can help me with something offtopic?
<tristan_> I'm looking for a new haircut
<ogra> also check the server logs if you even get requests from the client
<tristan_> I was thinking of shaving linux backwards on the back of my head
<racter> ogra: we are definitely getting requests showing up in /var/log/syslog
<ogra> on tftp as well or only for dhcp ?
<racter> how can we check tftp?
<racter> i'd like to check that out
<ogra> it should show up in syslog
<racter> o ok - nothing there
<racter> ps aux | grep tftp is empty also
<racter> should it be running?
<racter> sorry n/m it's running
<racter> /usr/sbin/in.tftpd -s /var/lib/tftpboot
<ogra> no, it shouldnt
<racter> sorry?
<ogra> it wil break if you run it as a static daemon, it needs to run from inetd to serve kernel and initramfs
<ogra> ltsp-server should have set that up for ou during install ...
<racter> ok it's set up in inetd; not sure how it got running as a daemon but i killed it
<racter> but still can't read elf
<ogra> do you see tftp requests now ?
<racter> no still no requests in syslog
<racter> nothing about tftp in there
<ogra> well, that your tftpd was running is a bt strange
<ogra> make sure you have disabled it in /etc/default so it doesnt break in the future
<lynn_> ok done
<racter> any idea what would stop the client from requesting a rom by tftp?
<Meshezabeel> tristan_: nah, if you want a decent haircut then you should shave into it supercalifragilelisticexpiealladocious.
<Meshezabeel> er, I guess it's spelt: Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
<racter> ok i tried running a little tftp session independent of netbooting and there are no messages in syslog about it
#edubuntu 2007-06-01
* racter can't read elf
<ogra> you should see womething like: in.tftpd[2914] : tftp: client does not accept options
<ogra> the ubuntu tftp netboot triggers such a message
<racter> in syslog?
<ogra> yes
<racter> i grep'ed everything in /var/log for 'tftp' but nothing
<ogra> probably cliebow has an idea, he's more familiar with the different ppc things you need to regard, i only every worked with one single ppc might be you need totally different options for yours
<racter> got it - thx ogra
<racter> i'll try to catch cliebow
<ogra> also habve a look at wiki.ltsp.org for different dhcpd conf settings etc
<ogra> it has some docs about ppc ... even these are for ltsp 4.2 much of the server side stuff applies
<cliebow_> lynn-:i netboot powerpc
<lynn_> we just booted an i386 thin-client successfully and we didn't see any tftp requests anywhere
<racter> cliebow: what?
<racter> oic you netboot powerpc?
<lynn_> cliebow_, do you know anything about "can't read elf"?
<lynn_> i mean the "can't read elf" error
<lynn_> that we get when we try to netboot a ppc
<cliebow_> no...but you should see what nfsroot it is trying to mount\
<cliebow_> what ppc client anyway?
<racter> it's a blue-ish g4 tower
<racter> blue and gray
<lynn_> blue-gray & dark grey
<cliebow_> it seeems that would be the latest firmware...if you ctrl-optn-o-f you can  go to openfirmwaartre..but that wont give you any logging..you need to watch the servers logs..
<cliebow_> or use ewiresshark'
<racter> right - we're in openfirmware typing `enet:0` on the client
<racter> on the server we can see that it is getting dhcp requests but nothing about tftp
<cliebow_> boot enet:192.168.whaatever
<racter> we were trying that before - like enet:192.168.0.254
<racter> do we need to put a path there too?
<cliebow_> racter..sometimes the position of yaboot and yaboot.conf is important
<cliebow_> it seems sometimes important for those to be in the root of the tftp chroot..
<racter> o ok - which would be /var/lib/tftpboot ?
<cliebow_> if you use wireshark..cana you see 606 packets or so as if the kernel is loading?
<racter> i'll install it now
<cliebow_> like 31 nonsense packets..then dhcp..then the kernel coming down
<racter> here's one "read request, file: /vmlinux, Transfer type: octet[Malformed Packet] "
<cliebow_> like 31 of them?
<racter> just one of those
<cliebow_> oohh it ids loading the i386 jkernel
<racter> and that's followed by a "file not found" tftp msg
<racter> we'll try enet:192.168.0.254,yaboot
<cliebow_> why not post your dhcpd.conf so i can see what you are using..perhaps pastebot.ltsp.org....use the dropdown to specify ltsp
<cliebow_> even better maybe tyake this over there
<racter> http://pastebot.ltsp.org/152
<racter> ok - lynn+i are in that channel too
<cliebow_> i wonder if your openfirmware is sending a different option 60
<cliebow_> with wireshark you should be aable to see if the client is sending AAPLBSDPC as vendor class identifier
<cliebow_> this i s an ubuntu server right? and you are looking at /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
<lynn_> hey, where in wireshark should we be looking?
<lynn_> we never used it before this
<cliebow_> should be a ble to Closely examine every packet
<lynn_> o thanks
<cliebow_> i have a g4 ibook here as a client
<lynn_> kernel loaded, "can't claim malloc buffer" error
<racter> ok we symlinked /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/powerpc/yaboot to /var/lib/tftpboot/yaboot and then booted the client enet:192.168.0.254,yaboot - now we are getting that malloc error
<cliebow_> that is wierd...does wireshark show it is loading /yaboot?
<racter> checking
<racter> it looks like it is loading /yaboot
<racter> and then choking with this malloc error
<cliebow_> i have a demo setup here...sony ibook and ibook g4
<cliebow_> i am  getting a wireshark outpit of successful boot to send you..and my dhcpd.conf
<racter> great
<cliebow_> racter:theoretically you can pick up that capture at 169.244.3.137/applenetboot...like 12 meg of it..give it a minute to upload
<racter> this is a capture i can load into wireshark?
<lynn_> so no clue about the "malloc buffer" error?
<lynn_> it looks like it loaded the kernel and then crashed for some reason
<cliebow_> never saw that before.
<cliebow_> are you looking at the wireshark capture?
<lynn_> the machine became unresponsive and i had to reboot
<lynn_> jake is
<lynn_> i mean racter is
<cliebow_> it is up  thereyou shhould bee able to file..open that with wireshark
<racter> so i see yours is requesting /ltsp/powerpc/yaboot
<racter> we'll try enet:192.168.0.254,ltsp/powerpc/yaboot
<cliebow_> perhaps..this an ubuntu,right? and you are using /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf..
<racter> ya
<lynn_> one machine gives us a malloc error and the other says "unknown or corrupt filesystem"
<lynn_> two different errors using the same command
<racter> both in yaboot 1.3.13 but on different machines
<lynn_> a g3 & a g4
<cliebow_> something is really wonky..
<cliebow_> wanna post yaboot.conf?
<racter> from the server?
<racter> ya
<racter> http://pastebot.ltsp.org/153
<racter> this was generated automatically by ltsp-build-client
<cliebow_> can you verify that /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/powerpc/vmlinux is a simlink to
<cliebow_> 2.6.20-12
<cliebow_> etc etcx etc
<racter> vmlinux-2.6.20-15-powerpc ya
<cliebow_> i am unsure whether your error involves a corrupt yaboot  or vmlijnux
<racter> maybe we should rebuild them?
<cliebow_> you can try my yaboot if you like at 169.244.3.137/yaboot.gz 9unzip it)
<racter> ok
<cliebow_> and 9i think) powerpckernel.feisty.tar.gz
<cliebow_> dhcpd.conf is there as well
<lynn_> thx
<cliebow_> wish i could see just what is happening
<racter> that kicked us back out to open firmware
<racter> weird!
<cliebow_> i am just holding down the n key at boot
<racter> ok - we have yaboot on these machines from their current ubuntu installs
<felipe__> Hello. Im trying to install School Tool on my system ( I have Ubuntu, not Edubuntu) but it says it depends on python 2.4 and python 2.5 is installed. i manually installed python 2.4 but still theres a problem of dependency on python 2.4
<cliebow_> maybe it is getting a "senior moment" cause that machines dhcp discover packet has an option 60 different from AAPLBSDPC
<lynn_> cliebow_, do you know what the "enet:0" command does exactly?
<lynn_> in yaboot
<cliebow_> not for sure...maybe a broadcast?
<cliebow_> fwiw my old notes are in  http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/CpuArchitectures
<lynn_> ok we'll take a look, thx
<cliebow_> not mu ch help i guess
<racter> * felipe__ (n=felipe@190.10.206.201) has joined #edubuntu
<racter> <felipe__> Hello. Im trying to install School Tool on my system ( I have Ubuntu, not Edubuntu) but it says it depends on python 2.4 and python 2.5 is installed. i manually installed python 2.4 but still theres a problem of dependency on python 2.4
<racter> <cliebow_> maybe it is getting a "senior moment" cause that machines dhcp discover packet has an option 60 different from AAPLBSDPC
<racter> <lynn_> cliebow_, do you know what the "enet:0" command does exactly?
<racter> <lynn_> in yaboot
<racter> <cliebow_> not for sure...maybe a broadcast?
<racter> <cliebow_> fwiw my old notes are in  http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/CpuArchitectures
<racter> <lynn_> ok we'll take a n
<felipe__> racter: ???
<LaserJock> ogra: still up?
<sbalneav> Evening all
<LaserJock> hi
<sbalneav> Hey LaserJock!
<LaserJock> how's life up North?
<sbalneav> Not too bad!
<sbalneav> coding LDM2 :)
<LaserJock> sweet
<LaserJock> I'm finishing up a the lab for today
<LaserJock> going to drive home and see about working on some dynamic menus
<LaserJock> bbiab
<highvoltage> Burgwork: "The wonderful people at O'Reilly and I".. that sounds quite funny :)
<LaserJock> morning highvoltage
<highvoltage> morning LaserZ
<RichEd> hi highvoltage & LaserJock
<LaserJock> morning RichEd
<highvoltage> morning RichEd
<highvoltage> win 12
<RichEd> hi pips1 : give me 3 / 4 mins
<pips1> perfect for me too
<RichEd> pips1-ping
<pips1> sorry I need 5 mins
<RichEd> hi meduxa
<meduxa> hi
<RichEd> meduxa: can you see my msg window ?
<meduxa> yes
<meduxa> although i cannot answer, I think
<pips1> meduxa: so you haven't registered your nick ?
<meduxa> ups....nop
<meduxa> I'll do it tomorrow
<meduxa> today I'm full of work
<pips1> right
<meduxa> abenito@grupocpd.com or direccion@ejerciciosresueltos.com
<meduxa> my e-mail
<RichEd> RichEd> hi there
<RichEd> <RichEd> just a note to let you know where we are at this stage ... I'm busy laying out objectives for edubuntu and ubuntu-education for now until March 2008 ... and will be fleshing these out into action plans that support the objectives
<RichEd> <RichEd> so within the next week, we can look at defining some concrete areas to work together
<RichEd> that was it :)
<meduxa> ok
<pips1> meduxa, fyi, this chat is logged... so if you don't want to increase spam to your inbox you might want to obfuscate email addresses you post in here, fwiw :-)
<meduxa> well it is impossible to recieve more spam ... but thanks, it is a good info
<pips1> hehe
<meduxa> I'll be aware next time
<willvdl> ping ogra
* willvdl notices too late
<pips1> willvdl: ping
<pips1> ^^^
<willvdl> pips1, pong
<pips1> willvdl: just pinging you because ogra joined :-)
<willvdl> pips1, thanks :)
<RichEd> willvdl: ping
<RichEd> willvdl: msg @ canonical
<pinch150g> Is there anyone out there that could help me with a boot issue?
<pips1> pinch150g: just ask the question :-) if anyone can answer it, they will...
<pinch150g> When I boot from the 7.04 disc, I get a message that says the tty could not continue.  It happens with any selection I make from the bootscreen.  When I take off the quiet splash from the boot parameters, I see that it is trying to do something with the floppy
<pinch150g> I have turned off the floppy, and that does not help
<pinch150g> I have tried to add the Floppy parameter as so FLOPPY=16
<pinch150g> It will not boot.  Any ideas?
<ogra> pinch150g, the floppy shouldnt have anything to do with the failure
<pinch150g> I have also tried putting a good disc in the floppy as I have seen on the ubuntu forums, and nothing works
<ogra> did you do y CD selfcheck ?
<fsgaston> I was wondering if anybody has LTSP working with Windows authentication and some processing done locally "fat client"
<pinch150g> It won't boot into that either
<ogra> pinch150g, so you dont get beyond the menua at all ?
<pinch150g> I did the MD5 on the image and it checks out.
<pinch150g> I get to the dmesg part but it freezes after it tries the floppy several times or it gets stuck.
<pinch150g> I am running a dell precision 530 dual Xeon processors.
<ogra> well, it surely has nothing to do with your floppy  ... but likely with the hw detection of the controller
<pinch150g> Any ideas?
<ogra> not really ...
<ogra> does it boot in a different machine (if you have one around)
<pinch150g> I can go to work and try it, but I used the AMD64 version of UBUNTU 7.04 at work yesterday with great success.  I have not tried this disc up there yet.
<pinch150g> Is there a way to find drivers for this machine and load them with boot parameters?
<ogra> try #ubuntu-ernel, they might know ;)
<ogra> *kernel
<pinch150g> thanks, I will
<pips1> hi jinty
<pinch150g> orga are you still there?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> even thugh the highlight works better if you flip the two middle letters in my nae ;)
<ogra> *name
<pinch150g> I can't get anybody to answer on the #ubuntu-kernel
<pinch150g> sorry
<pinch150g> :)
<ogra> many of them are us westcoast ... so be patient, they might just get up
<pinch150g> k
<pinch150g> Here is my error if it helps.
<pinch150g> I get the following error:
<pinch150g> end_request: I/O error, dev fd0, sector 0 (Multiple Times)
<pinch150g> then
<pinch150g> /bin/sh: cant access tty; job control turned off
<pinch150g> Then it hangs after
<pinch150g> sr1: scsi3-mmc drive: 32x/32x writer cd/rw xa/form2 cdda tray
<LaserJock> ogra: good morning oliver :-)
<pips1> a good day to you LaserJock and good evening
<pips1> cu guys
<RichEd> hi sbalneav
<RichEd> hello again LaserJock : different day same **** :)
<ogra> LaserJock, gcompris done now ...
<LaserJock> ogra: good, and tuxpaint is on it's way? :-)
<LaserJock> hi RichEd
<ogra> yes
<LaserJock> ogra: you're awesome dude!
<ogra> so lets see if the auto closing from changeogs works now ... tuxpaint uploaded
* ogra watches bug 32252
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 32252 in tuxpaint "Installs two desktop launchers in different sections" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/32252
<LaserJock> hmm, yeah, I haven't seen that in action yet :-)
<ogra> so the mail is processed ...
<ogra> no changes on the bug yet
<LaserJock> ogra: I'm going to make up a new edubuntu-docs package
<ogra> yay
<LaserJock> putting in some translations, doing some fixes, and switching the versioning to what's used in ubuntu-docs
<LaserJock> ogra: sound ok to you?
<LaserJock> perhaps you can get it in before the Freeze Tuesday if I get it to you this weekend?
<ogra> indeed
<ogra> just do what you like, we're early in the dev cycle
<ogra> no need to ask me for approval :)
<LaserJock> ogra: well, I'm applying for core-dev today
<ogra> yay
<LaserJock> hopefully soon I won't have to bug you so much
<ogra> Hobbsee made it yesterday ...
<LaserJock> i saw
<ogra> with sugar on top ...
<ogra> she'll even jump on archive admin tasks right away
<ogra> very impressive
<LaserJock> ogra: nifty, it closed the bug
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> ok, dia sync request filesd as well ... now only fuse is left on my merges list
* ogra goes to mow the lawn ... 
#edubuntu 2007-06-02
<cliebow_> anyone know why we opted for x11vnc for tcm?
<Burgundavia> talk to cbx33
<LaserJock> x11vnc as opposed to ?
<crimsun> freenx or something else?
<crimsun> or maybe clairvoyance?
<crimsun> (sp)
<LaserJock> well, freenx would be kinda overkill wouldn't it?
<crimsun> I don't know the requirements, so I have no idea whether it would be.
<cliebow_> i kind a thought he was using swf2something
<LaserJock> x11vnc attaches to an existing X
<cliebow_> LaserJock, i use it all the time in 4.2
<cliebow_> vnc2swf
<LaserJock> well, it might be used eventually, I don't know
<cliebow_> im trying to help paablo get tcm running..over in #ltsp
<cliebow_> but x11vnc doenst show as pkg in the chroot
<Burgundavia> swf is non-free
<LaserJock> yeah, I guess that might be difficult in our default install
<cliebow_> how would i know what repo the pkg would be in?
<cliebow_> x11vnc that is
<LaserJock> Universe
<cliebow_> thanks! ill pass that on
<LaserJock> bah
<LaserJock> my laptop keeps freezing on me
<cliebow_> bah!
<Burgundavia> it might be network manager
<Burgundavia> mine does that and also doesn't bring the LCD up when I open the screen
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: it just freezes up? no mouse activity or anything?
<fxch> ?
<LaserJock> fxch: just discussing why my laptop freezes sometimes
<fxch> Can you tell us the detail, maybe someone can help you
<LaserJock> well, Burgundavia suggested that maybe it was network manager
<LaserJock> it just hard freezes every once in a while
<fxch> is cpu busy?
<LaserJock> I think perhaps
<LaserJock> it gets pretty hot
<LaserJock> but I can't ssh in or anything
<LaserJock> must have been too much for him ;-)
<mindslant> When I run edubuntu feisty from live cd I have all the regular programs.  When I load it onto dell desktops, most of the education programs are missing.  In the package manager calls up the program it says my i386 archictecture isn't suported
<LaserJock> mindslant: The LiveCD doesn't install the educational apps unfortunately
<LaserJock> we had a bug in the Feisty LiveCD
<LaserJock> you can get the educational apps from the Classroom Server Add-on CD
<mindslant> Great, there's a simple solution. thx
<mindslant> Why won't adept or synaptic load them?
<LaserJock> Well, that would work too
<mindslant> Not when I've tried
<LaserJock> but you'd need to download them from the internet
<mindslant> not the repositories?
<LaserJock> yes, they are in the repositories
<LaserJock> what did you try specifically?
<mindslant> gcompris and the potato man (my daughters fave)
<LaserJock> ok, so you opened up synaptic?
<mindslant> I opened up add/remove programs.  I'm not sure if it's default synaptic or adept
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> neither actually
<LaserJock> the program is gnome-app-install
<LaserJock> and then you selected gcompris?
<mindslant> okay
<mindslant> yes sir
<mindslant> Do I need to sudo in a terminal
<LaserJock> you shouldn't
<LaserJock> I'm repeating what you're doing, so I can see what's going on
<mindslant> appreciate it
<LaserJock> ok, so I got potato guy and gcompris selected
<LaserJock> now I'm gonna hit the OK button, is that what you did?
<mindslant> says my architecture (i386) is not supported
<mindslant> I can't even select them
<LaserJock> oh, how odd
<mindslant> GCompris Administration cannot be installed on your computer type (i386). Either the application requires special hardware features or the vendor decided to not support your computer type.
<mindslant> 6.06 let me
<LaserJock> yikes, that's not right at all
<LaserJock> ok, can you open up a terminal for me?
<mindslant> Finally, I'm not asking a noob type problem.  sure can
<mindslant> it's up
<LaserJock> ok, can you pastebin the contents of /usr/apt/sources.list ?
<LaserJock> !paste
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<mindslant> pastebin is new
<mindslant> to me
<mindslant> one sec
<LaserJock> it's much nicer than pasting everything into here
<mindslant> In the terminal I'm trying to cd to /usr/apt/sources.list...no go
<mindslant> is !paste a command for the terminal
<mindslant> ?
<LaserJock> just do less /usr/apt/sources.list
<mindslant> I'm still learning to convert from old dos commands to linux commands
<LaserJock> then put what you get in http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org and give me the URL when you submit it
<LaserJock> it's like a whiteboard for people to toss up notes and things
<mindslant> Super neat idea
<mindslant> No such file.  Sorry I'm being such a slow learner here.  Is 'less' a command?  I cd'd to /usr and did ls, didn't see an apt sub-directory
<LaserJock> ok, try this:
<LaserJock> cd /etc/apt/
<LaserJock> less sources.list
<LaserJock> it was my mistake with /usr
<LaserJock> it should be /etc, sorry
<mindslant> Yep, lots of stuff came up
<mindslant> did the paste bin
<LaserJock> ok, so what is the URL?
<mindslant> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23680/
<LaserJock> so is that all that was in that file?
<LaserJock> you might have needed to scroll down a bit
<mindslant> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23681/
<mindslant> there was some more, I don't know how useful it will be
<LaserJock> I don't think it will be
<LaserJock> did any of the lines start with "deb"
<LaserJock> without a "#" in front?
<mindslant> deb cdrom:[Edubuntu 7.04 _Feisty Fawn_ - Release i386 Binary-1 (20070415)] / feisty main restricted
<LaserJock> and that's the only one?
<mindslant> this came up when i did cd /etc/apt...less sources.list
<mindslant> yes sir, that's the only one
<LaserJock> ok, we're doing good now
<mindslant> good news
<LaserJock> now, is this a pretty new installation?
<LaserJock> have you done much of anything since installing?
<mindslant> It's a pretty unused installation so far
<mindslant> no
<LaserJock> ok, well I'm going to have to go figure out if this is a bug
<mindslant> I get this problem on all the dells at my school and a different model at home
<LaserJock> but first let's fix it
<LaserJock> hmm, if you want to install Edubuntu I'd really recommend using the Classroom Server CD
<LaserJock> you can do the Workstation option it has if you don't want all the LTSP Server stuff
<mindslant> finally I'm doing more than evangelizing for the community, I'm bug hunting.  Right now I need to give a demo to the school, then if they like it distribute it
<LaserJock> ok, so lets fix this for you
<mindslant> thank you so much
<LaserJock> ok, so go to System -> Administration -> Software Sources
<mindslant> I'm there
<LaserJock> ok, you want to click the first 3 check boxes
<LaserJock> for main, universe, and restricted
<LaserJock> go them checked?
<mindslant> yes
<LaserJock> and you can do the Download From:
<mindslant> yes
<LaserJock> ok, no go to the Updates tab
<LaserJock> *now
<LaserJock> and check the first 2
<mindslant> ok, did I need to do anything with "Download From:" or was that just a test?
<mindslant> done
<LaserJock> in Download From: you should see Main Server and a local mirror
<LaserJock> you probably wan the local mirror
<mindslant> main server and server from US
<LaserJock> US is usually pretty good
<mindslant> done
<mindslant> (not at world politics)
<LaserJock> ok, so now you can hit the "Close" button
<mindslant> it asked me to reload and is now downloading changes
<LaserJock> yep, good
<mindslant> looks like it's going to be doing that for another 10 minutes
<LaserJock> are you on dialup?
<mindslant> no
<mindslant> down to 3 minutes
<LaserJock> ah
<mindslant> it's confused
<LaserJock> maybe it just needed a minute to warm up ;-)
<LaserJock> while it's doing that
<LaserJock> you said it's happened on several machines?
<mindslant> I have a software update available in the menu bar
<LaserJock> on all the ones you've tried?
<mindslant> Two types of dell desktops
<LaserJock> yeah, you'll probably have quite a few updates
<mindslant> Older ones from a couple of years or more ago
<LaserJock> ok, so once the reloading is done
<LaserJock> you should be back to Add/Remove and it should work
<mindslant> ok, I'll test it once all the other updates are done
<mindslant> ...in 4 hrs
<LaserJock> blah
<mindslant> this time I don't think it's confues
<mindslant> *confused
<mindslant> 4321 B/s download
<LaserJock> yucky
<LaserJock> sometimes if you get a bad US server you can restart it
<mindslant> just cancel and go again, or do I need to manually pick a different server first?
<LaserJock> the US server is actually a bunch of servers so sometimes it gives you a slow one
<mindslant> now it says 48 minutes
<LaserJock> well, I can't find a bug report for this issue
<mindslant> now 9 min. I'm glad I'm helping
<LaserJock> I'll have to try a Desktop CD to see if I can reproduce it
<LaserJock> what happened is when you installed from the Desktop CD it didn't put in the repositories
<LaserJock> so it was just lookin on the CD, which doesn't actually have any packages in it
<mindslant> ok
<mindslant> I understand.
<LaserJock> heah, you want to file the bug?
<mindslant> all my install disks (which I checked for defects) came from the same downloaded image.  Maybe I just got a bad one.
<LaserJock> well, it's possible I suppose
<mindslant> Uh...you could put my name there but I'd probably not give enough/right information for the report to be amazingly helpful
<mindslant> unless it's a hassle for you
<LaserJock> mindslant: nah, I'll walk you through it
<LaserJock> then you'll know how
<mindslant> ubuntu bugs area?
<mindslant> big red "report a bug" button
<LaserJock> Ubuntu uses Launchpad for most all development
<LaserJock> it does translations, bug tracking, etc.
<LaserJock> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/
<LaserJock> so there you can hit the red "Report a Bug" button
<mindslant> I'm logged in and I have a prompt
<LaserJock> ok, so you're at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug ?
<mindslant> One line summary:  Desktop installation fails to install all repositories
<mindslant> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug?redirection_url=https%3A%2F%2Flaunchpad.net%2Fubuntu%2F%2Bfilebug
<LaserJock> ok, let's put Edubuntu Feisty Desktop CD installation fails to install all repositories
<mindslant> doen
<mindslant> done
<LaserJock> ok, next page
<mindslant> not today "
<mindslant> Launchpad is offline at the moment for maintenance. It should be back, better than ever, soon. Thanks for your patience. "
<mindslant> let me reload
<LaserJock> bah
<mindslant> I"m Irish, you'd think I'd have more luck
<LaserJock> should be back
<LaserJock> heh
<mindslant> I got the next page
<LaserJock> ok, so just give a little account of what happens
<mindslant> ok
<LaserJock> when you get it done let me know what the bug number is
<mindslant> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/118334
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 118334 in Ubuntu "Edubuntu Feisty Desktop CD installation fails to install all repositories" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
<mindslant> Did you notice on the main bug page the number one bug (critical and in progress) is MIcrosoft has too much market share.  I don't know if that's always there but it's hilarious
<LaserJock> it was bug #1
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<mindslant> I have always loved linux humor
<LaserJock> Mark Shuttleworth filed that for the very first bug in Launchpad
<mindslant> Love Mr. Shuttleworth
<LaserJock> ok, I'm gonna clean you're bug up a bit
<mindslant> I'm sure it could use it
<LaserJock> mindslant: nah, it wasn't bad
<mindslant> thx
<LaserJock> I just made it so the bug was filed against ubiquity
<LaserJock> which is the DesktopCD installer
<LaserJock> and I'm subscribing the Edubuntu Bugsquad
<mindslant> ok
<LaserJock> mindslant: ok, sir. I've held you up long enough ;-)
<LaserJock> thanks for reporting the problem
<mindslant> Me?  I look forward to the day I can help others
<mindslant> Thank you for all the help
<LaserJock> well, that's what we're here for
<LaserJock> we volunteer our time because somebody helped us too :-)
<mindslant> I get lucky enough that I always find a quiet room and one really devoted volunteer
<LaserJock> hehe
<LaserJock> Irish Luck? :-)
<mindslant> It's not a super power you can call on, kicks in whenever
<LaserJock> well, I'm downloading the Desktop CD .iso now
<LaserJock> it's getting late so I'll probably try to give it a go tomorrow
<mindslant> Okay, want my e-mail in case there's more specifics I can give later?
<LaserJock> actually, I've got it in Launchpad
<LaserJock> unless you've got a better one
<LaserJock> you're subscribed to the bug now so when anything happens with it you'll get an email
<mindslant> okay, I'll keep an eye out.  I'm thinking it's either my specific download was bad or it's just this era dell
<LaserJock> well, there shouldn't be any issue with hardware
<LaserJock> we've had a bugger of a time with our Feisty Desktop CD
<LaserJock> we really don't use it much and it's not our recommended installtion method
<LaserJock> we went to two CD for Feisty
<LaserJock> to get more education apps and still keep all the Ubuntu stuff
<LaserJock> but that caused some problems with the Desktop CD
<mindslant> what is the significant advantage of the Classroom Server CD
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> you can use it to install an LTSP Server
<LaserJock> which is what a lot of Edubuntu users in schools, etc. want
<LaserJock> you can also install the Workstation (which is like a normal desktop)
<LaserJock> it's a text-based installer so it's not as shiny as the DesktopCD
<LaserJock> but it's fast to install and more flexible
<mindslant> That's the thin client right?  I'm just worried that the 256 ram box we got donated would run well as a thick client to 20-30 computers
<mindslant> *would not run
<mindslant> *Thick Server
<LaserJock> no, but with 256MB of Ram a Workstation off the Classroom Server CD would be the fastest/best install
<mindslant> what are the recommended basics for the server of the thin client network
<LaserJock> I've got to get to bed
<mindslant> no problem, thanks for everything
<LaserJock> but I'll leave you with a doc that should give you some answers ;-)
<LaserJock> http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/handbook/C
<mindslant> Thank you so much.  Go to bed.
<LaserJock> have a good night
<LaserJock> and thanks for dropping by
<LaserJock> good luck ;-)
<mindslant> : - D
<pygi> hi folks
<mindslant> Howdy
<pygi> hi mindslant :)
<mindslant> somebody is here.
<mindslant> I got a problem I was getting some help with last night.
<mindslant> It's listed as Bug #118834.  Once I install edubuntu 7.04 onto somewhat older dells, non of the educational programs are available...any ideas?
<mindslant> Nevermind, it just started working
<mindslant> maybe
<pygi> :P
<FunnyLookinHat> Hey...  if when I first setup the thin-client server I couldn't correctly configure it because I only had one NIC, how can I start the config process again?
<LaserJock> Good morning Edubuntu land!
<cottima> Hello, has anyone used LTSP?
<LaserJock> do you have a specific question?
<LaserJock> oh my gosh!
<Burgundavia> hmm?
<LaserJock> I just had my first LTSP session
<LaserJock> in vmware
<LaserJock> but still
<LaserJock> first time I've ever booted up a thin client \o/
<stgraber> LaserJock: oh :)
<Burgundavia> heh
<stgraber> vmware is really a good software for that kind of stuff, here I'm working on an install for a school I'll do in a month or so, I've : a win2003 domain server with a copy of their AD schema, an edubuntu server, 2 thin clients
<stgraber> (I'm working on using the Win2003 server to auth users without having to join the Windows Domain or extend the LDAP schema with the Unix things)
<stgraber> so basically checking for the validity of the user informations, retrieve the Full name and the primary Groups from LDAP and then create a local account
<stgraber> just great to be able to test all of this on my laptop everywhere I want without having to take 3 computers with me :)
<LaserJock> yeah
<stgraber> btw, I saw somewhere that some meta packages would be done to easily install education packages for a specific schools type, for example edubuntu-secondary or things like that, is there a list of the packages that would be included in those meta ? (I'd like to have a list of potential packages for a secondary school)
<LaserJock> stgraber: hehe
<LaserJock> not yet
<LaserJock> because I haven't created the packages
<LaserJock> ;-)
<LaserJock> to start with it'll mostly be science packages I'm guessing
<LaserJock> since they are fairly prevalent
<LaserJock> stgraber: hopefully soonish I'll have a reasonable draft of the package lists
<stgraber> oh, good thing
#edubuntu 2007-06-03
<LaserJock> stgraber: I see you'd like to become an Edubuntu Member
<stgraber> yes
<stgraber> I've been hanging around for quite a lot of time, helping people setting up their Edubuntu (especially LTSP environment), I've also written two Edubuntu presentations (one I've given at our ReleaseParty in Zurich and the other for the LinuxDays in Geneva) and have currently 2-3 small Edubuntu networks installed and a bigger one planned, so I think membership could be a good thing to get :)
<LaserJock> stgraber: you're an Ubuntu Member right?
<stgraber> yes
<cliebow_>  LaserJock:LTSP is a rocking huh..
<LaserJock> yeah, that's absolutely the first time I've booted a "thin client"
<cliebow_> i so weell remember the first time the old macintosh booted to a linux desktop..it was so awesome
<cliebow_> took dubbing around nearly nine months befor i fouind a nic the initrd would recognize
<LaserJock> stgraber: welcome aboard ;-)
<stgraber> LaserJock: thank you :)
<cliebow_> LaserJock:wanna let me in as well 8~)
<LaserJock> are you an Ubuntu Member?
<cliebow_> i think i signed up..
<cliebow_> ohhh..i have an a launchpad acct
<cliebow_> hmmm got bumped
<jonathan_> Has anyone successfully implemented a web filter on a 2 nic LTSP setup?
<jonathan_> Has anyone successfully implemented a web filter on a 2 nic LTSP setup?
<jonathan_> Has anyone successfully implemented a web filter on a 2 nic LTSP setup?
<imamafackinhokie> does anyone know any good software to install for a kid around the age of 8 on edubuntu?
#edubuntu 2008-05-26
<beni> Anybody any idea how I could get my USB devices working with ltspfs on hardy? Floppies work by the way.
<RichEd_> stgraber: hello ?
<stgraber> RichEd: hi
<RichEd> how did the presentation go ?
<Nick_M_> @ RichEd : http://eyeedu.org
<Nick_M_> Hello, again ;)
<RichEd> hi Nick_M_
<RichEd> still travelling ... sitting in london hotel now preparing for company sprint tomorrow
<RichEd> i'm just busy, not avoiding you :) ... next week life should be more normal
<RichEd> (after a 18 hour trip home)
<Nick_M_> Ahh, well sorry for the bothers then
<RichEd> np ... keep pinging me ... i'll let you know when i have 30 mins
<Nick_M_> Ok ;)
<edenadmin> Hi we were having problems logging into edubuntu after an upgrade to Hardy - user not recognised at login screen. ltsp-update-sshkeys and ltsp-update-image changed the problem to fail at busybox with mount errors visible on the console (ctl-alt-f1). This is like "http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=686966&highlight=ltsp+busybox" - see the edenlab post at the end. Any ideas?
<edenadmin> Please help
#edubuntu 2008-05-27
<primary> hiya all
<primary> ogra: why would users appear to be logged in a day after they logged out
<primary> we then use the slay command to kill the running users and programs
<guffe> Need some help. Have fuÂ¤%& up my system... Tried to upgrade chroot to accept x11vnc for tcm but now all I get is BusyBox on my thin clients.
<guffe> Im a newbie at this...
<RichEd> ogra: ping ?
<RichEd> any ideas about the wireless for me ?
<lns> Hey, to do a distribution upgrade from Gutsy to Hardy from the terminal, it's still just "apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade" right?
<lns> Or should I do the do.serverupgrade (or whatever that is) even though it's a desktop install .. ?
<lns> oops, do-release-upgrade.. nevermind =)
<Circe> Just installed Edubuntu and I love it! Anyone know where I can get an Edubuntu sticker?
<johnny> edubuntu is jut an addon cd to ubuntu now
<johnny> don't know if it's worth having a sticker for that
<bimberi> Of course it is!
<bimberi> But idk where to get one
<RichEd> hi bimberi
<RichEd> & johnny
<bimberi> hey RichEd
<bimberi> !upgrade | lns
<bimberi> hm, no ubottu here
<bimberi> <ubottu> For upgrading, see the instructions at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UpgradeNotes
<lns> bimberi, thanks..I thought I'd go the risky route and do a 'do-release-upgrade' over ssh =p
<bimberi> yee-har, ride-em cowboy :)
<lns> bimberi, ;) I'm only about 5 minutes away from the site anyway, so it's ok ;) New install, too
<bimberi> lns: pfft, you're struck off the cowboy list then ;p
<Michael__> Hi RichEd
<RichEd> hi Michael__
 * bimberi heads off to work to avoid discussing the Rugby World Cup with RichEd ;)
<RichEd> bimberi: what rugby world cup ? that was too many beers ago to remember
<RichEd> oh ... vague recollection ... we beat some ladies teams didn't we
<RichEd> ??
<blue-frog> how could I find out what gparted is doing when moving partitions? look at the source? strace (if yes how?)? other?
<mcirce> is there a repository with more edubuntu themes/ wallpapers?
<mcirce> just looking
#edubuntu 2008-05-28
<Circe> I have been impressed with everything so far!
 * lns just wanted to see if there was a central issue regarding gutsy -> hardy upgrade and "Internal Error - Failed to initialize HAL", plus "Gnome-settings-daemon" crashes upon login (logging in via VNC, but don't think that should matter.. ? )
<Cyndre> Simple question - does anyone have a torrent link for the desktop cd, or am I faced to suffer 30 kb/s download speeds?
<Circe> torrent.ubuntu.com
<Circe> there is some more to the address.
<Circe> I usually google "ubuntu torrents"
<Circe> the quickest method is get the desktop ubuntu torrent and the edubuntu add on torrent.
<Circe> here is the address for all the torrents... torrent.ubuntu.com/6969/
<Circe> I had 1mb/s on both the desktop distro and the addon cd
<Cyndre> ty circe, setting up a spare comp for the kids
<Circe> same here, I am a school teacher setting up donated hardware in my classroom. Using edubuntu because for the kids!
<Cyndre> Circle: dual xeon 1.7 ghz 2 gigs of ram - should run nice?
<Cyndre> Circle: Was just getting 1.5 Mb/s then it dropped to a third
<Circe> yeah def. my edubuntu install is dual core 1.6 ghz with 1 gig of ram. Runs like a charm. Full desktop effects.
<Circe> it flucuated for me as well.
<Circe> the add on cd took longer than the regular distro. I think because more people are seeding the distro then the add on.
<Cyndre> Circe: Not as nice as yours, (old school dual cpu xeon)
<Cyndre> Circe: got the add on alread
<Circe> mine is a cheapo Acer that could not run Vista. I wiped the drive and installed Ubuntu. Can't believe how much more the computer can do now!
<Circe> nice.  Which ubuntu torrent did you choose?
<Cyndre> Desktop, 8.04
<Circe> the quickest for me was the i386 desktop cd 8.04. I must of had 120 seeders.
<Circe> what torrent client are you using?
<Circe> I use transmission.
<Circe> I find it to be lightweight and straight forward.
<Circe> uTorrent and Azureus are more popular I believe.
<Guest3883536> hmmm
<Guest3883536> that was wierd
<Guest3883536> ahhh - hitting 2 mb/s download right now
<Circe> what happened?
<Circe> it should be done any minute then.
<Guest3883536> 30 seconds
<Cyndre> yay done
<Circe> when I had those speeds I went ahead and snagged the DVD as well. 3 gigs but has some more apps on it.
<Circe> nice
<Cyndre> I can't believe I used to wait 3 days for 700 megs before
<Circe> LOL. Now you can be done in minutes.
<Circe> are you installing on a desktop or laptop?
<Cyndre> desktop
<Cyndre> so much for that plan :( no blank cd roms - have 100 or so blank dvds dammit
<kwak> is there a linux software that is like Adobe Visual COmmunicator or Varasoftware VideoCur
<kwak> Video Cue
<bimberi> !hi
<ubottu> Hi! Welcome to #edubuntu!
<RichEd> hi ogra ... you around & about & feeling better today ?
<stgraber> what time is today's meeting ?
<RichEd> stgraber: i'm in a sprint ... so I won't be in the meeting ... you'll need to check with ogra
<stgraber> isn't ogra at Linuxtag in Berlin ?
<ogra> stgraber, RichEd, i have slight fever and stayed in bed most of the day, feeling a bit better now but surely not in the condition to run meetings
<RichEd-2> ogra: np ... what time was the meeting meant to be ?
 * RichEd-2 is in the commercial sprint all day & into the evening
<highvoltage> omg, what happened to RichEd-1!? has he been replaced?
<johnny> no. incremented
<johnny> he's +1 good now
<highvoltage> ah, shew. that's fine then.
 * RichEd-2 the bot marvels at the wit & wisdom of the humanoids
<RichEd-2> and ... RichEd-2 woul,
<RichEd-2> oops
<RichEd-2> and ... RichEd-2 would in fact by RichEd-1 decremented no ?
<OculusAquilae> hi
<OculusAquilae> How ist the KDE-Version of Edubuntu going?
<RichEd-2> OculusAquilae:  ? what do you mean by that ?
<OculusAquilae> RichEd-2: Are storage devices on the thin clients shown in the dolphin device list?
<RichEd-2> if you are using KDE, then you would be able to insert add/remove any or all of the education applications onto your system
<OculusAquilae> In 7.10 they are only mounted to /media/$USER
<OculusAquilae> LTSP
<OculusAquilae> is the problem
<ogra> OculusAquilae, not until KDE gets fixed to monitor /media properly
<OculusAquilae> ogra: ???
<ogra> there are hacks floating around to put links on your desktop while thats a very nasty way of doing it and wouldnt be accepted as upstream default, you can use it as workaround
<OculusAquilae> ogra: kde displays file systems depending on hal I think
<ogra> OculusAquilae, ltspfs doesnt use hal
<ogra> it relies on the desktop to monitor /media
<ogra> which xfce and gnome do well
<OculusAquilae> ogra: on gnome there are hacks
<RichEd-2> you'd need to check with ogra or riddel on that level of detail
<ogra> RichEd, its simply that KDE is the only desktop not monitoring that dir ...
<OculusAquilae> ogra: Isn't gnome using such a ubuntu-specific hack itself
<ogra> no
<ogra> gnome uses gvfs and did use gnome-vfs before
<ogra> which both simply use inotify of teh kernel for monitoring /media
<OculusAquilae> ogra: ok
<OculusAquilae> ogra: and there is no possibility to let it be done by kde like this?
<ogra> anyway, i think debian added an lts.conf option, and the link code (just saw that there) i'll see that we can get it into 8.10
<ogra> well, the KDE backend would have to do the same but as i was told it acts on an abstract layer way abouve what gnome-vfs or gvfs do
<ogra> so thats apparently not easily possible
<OculusAquilae> ogra: so, you suppose to choose another distro?
<ogra> my idea was to rewrite ltspfs to use faked hal devices, but thats still in its early stages and i dont have much time anymore for ltsp development at all
<ogra> OculusAquilae, ???
<ogra> what would another distro change here ?
<OculusAquilae> ogra: perhaps they solved this problem
<ogra> they wont have a different KDE and still the same ltsp
<OculusAquilae> I could at least try
<OculusAquilae> ogra: you said that debian had something like this
<ogra> sure try what you like, fedora has just released a very basic implementation of ltsp with fc9 (their first attempt)
<OculusAquilae> would it be possible to do this on debian
<ogra> debian has the same LTSP and KDE packages
<ogra> but they added the five line hack to add links on user desktops
<OculusAquilae> ok
<ogra> its a trivial handfull of python code you can add to ltspfsmounter
<ogra> (i guess yu can even do it in one line if you hardcode it)
<OculusAquilae> why not doing this for ubuntu too?
<OculusAquilae> The problem is that I don't want to provide security updates myself
<ogra> because we dont add lnks to devices on desktops if there is a volume management backend doing that better ... i like to not hack around stuff but fix it
<ogra> use dpkg-divert on /usr/sbin/ltspfsmounter to prevent your thing from being overwritten
<ogra> anyway, as i said we'll add hist code for the lts.conf option to the 8.10 ltspfs
<OculusAquilae> ogra: thanks for the information
<OculusAquilae> ogra: is it in debian stable?
<ogra> oh, and indeed you need debian unstable for these hacks ... that wont get you into the problem of caring for security updates :P
<ogra> its pretty new hackish code
<OculusAquilae> unstable, hm
<OculusAquilae> ogra: do you know if it is in ltsp-server ?
<ogra> no
<ogra> it is in ltspfs
<OculusAquilae> thanks
<ogra> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltspfs/ltspfs-trunk/annotate/vagrant%40freegeek.org-20080302225903-rmrn56huy46yyuwf?start_revid=wtogami%40redhat.com-20080428224302-dkxj5o7wkmjvmh50&file_id=kdedesktopicons-20080302225737-q6d8ttvp6y7nfi4a-2
<ogra> thats the code
<OculusAquilae> thanks
<OculusAquilae> ogra: This code will be executed automatically by ltspfs?
<OculusAquilae> in /etc/ltspfs/mounter.d ?
<ogra> no idea, i havent used it yet, it smells like you also need support for ltspfs.d or so
<ogra> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltspfs/ltspfs-trunk/revision/vagrant%40freegeek.org-20080302080458-7hthsgddljqju2x8?start_revid=wtogami%40redhat.com-20080428224302-dkxj5o7wkmjvmh50
<ogra> seems to be that snippet
<ogra> i'D really just add an ln command to ltspfsmounter
<ogra> its hackish anyway
<ogra> link on "ltspfsmounter add" rm on "ltspfsmounter remove/cleanup"
<ogra> two lines
<OculusAquilae> hm
<OculusAquilae> I'll look at it
<ogra> note that neither the patch nor just adding links will give you proper device icons
<ogra> tehy are linked folders
<OculusAquilae> ogra: better than 15 children not finding their cds
<ogra> well, you could generally put a link to /media/$USER on their deesktops ... a non dynamic one and give it  descriptive name
<ogra> *a descriptive
<OculusAquilae> that's right, we thought about this possibility
<ogra> best would indeed be if all desktops would use the same way for handling devices :)
<ogra> but i didnt find any open ear in the KDE community yet
<OculusAquilae> ogra: why doesn't gnome use the kde way would be a possibility
<ogra> especially since all devs are busy getting 4.0 into usable shape
<ogra> because there are more desktops using the gnome way ... its a matter of amount of changes you hae to do in different places
<OculusAquilae> ogra: I am using 4.0.4
<ogra> the 4.0 rewrite would have been the perfect opportunity to unify here
<OculusAquilae> that could be right
<ogra> my personal main target is using hal for ltspfs anyway though ... as i said above
<ogra> but i have approximately 2-3h a week left to work on ltsp which mostly just goes into basic fixes
<OculusAquilae> ogra: then it would work on kde too?
<ogra> and reimplementing ltspfs will take more
<ogra> well, then you would see something like that http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/ltspfs-hal-root.png
<ogra> with all devices being added as fake blockdevices in hal
<ogra> thats using a way higher level then the kernel inotify mechanism
<ogra> and afaik KDE listens to hal for its devices
<ogra> (that might have changed with 4.x as well, the last time i actually touched KDE personally was around 1.2 ... but thats the info i got from KDE folks)
<OculusAquilae> ok
<ogra> my persona ocus simply isnt on KDe integration and unless someone from a KDE dev crew steps up to help out we wont solve the prob other than switching to the hal method i think
<ogra> *personal focus
<ogra> ... or hack around it like with adding links to user desktops which wil get funny if your client just crashed once and the link wasnt removed
<ogra> (or if the user didnt log out properly etc)
<OculusAquilae> right, another problem
<OculusAquilae> I think hal would be a good thing to use
<ogra> right, but requires extra time i dont have .... and nobody else is working on that stuff ... debian prefers to add the hacks it seems so we waste manpower on workarounds that would better have been invested in doing the real fix ... but well, you cant tell volunteers where to invest their time :)
<ogra> and its stil better than nothing apparently
<OculusAquilae> Isn't it possible to write such a script for ltspfs to broadcast device information via hal
<ogra> well, thats essentially what my change does ... but it has to happen in the suid binary which needs detailed auditing to not introduce security holes
<ogra> the screenshot you saw essentially calls hal-add-device with the right parameters from the suid binary of ltspfs (lbmounter)
<ogra> err lbmount
<ogra> its not easy to get right if you dont want all the code in the suid bit
<OculusAquilae> hm right
<ogra> lbmount is already 300 lines of C .... i dont want to make it 1500
<ogra> ese the security team will kill me to have to audit it for every release
<ogra> *else
<OculusAquilae> :)
<ogra> we'll get there eventually :)
<ogra> plans and ideas are there ... its just a matter of time
<ogra> (and sadly i'm hogged with business stuff since 8.04 which limits my time to work on extra stuff like ltsp, but i'm confident someone will step up to help if i dont make it at some point)
<ogra> RichEd, btw, did you see adams mail ? i really wonder why we talked for days about all these issues, seems he didnt understand that 8.04 is done and over
<RichEd> ogra: let me check now ... been in meetings all day]
<ogra> ah
<ogra> i answered already but t seems to me that he didnt understand much of what we discussed about and agreed on
<OculusAquilae> ogra: Thanks that you helped me to understand the situation. I wrote an email to our deciders with this information.
<monteslu_> did something with jetpipe change recently that requires authentication or anything like that?
<monteslu_> my lts.conf is bad
<monteslu_> isn't # the comment character?
<monteslu_> I'm getting a syntax error on  a commented line
<johnny> don't think you can have comments inside the [default]
<johnny> or in any other []
<johnny> only at the top perhaps
<monteslu_> think that's right
<monteslu_> took out the comments on individual clients and its good now
<monteslu_> should file that as a bug :)
<monteslu_> thanks
<moquist> ogra: ping
<monteslu> moquist, you still doing smbldap things?
<monteslu> summer's coming and its time for me to rebuild my smbldap server :)
<monteslu> fedora 5 worked well, but its four versions old now
<moquist> hi there
<moquist> yep, I'll get hardy working before the summer is out
<monteslu> would like to base it on centos or ubuntu lts this time
<monteslu> sweet
<moquist> But seriously, if you don't have a reason to upgrade your LDAP server, don't.
<monteslu> well, its a little flaky
<monteslu> i've had to do database recovers on just about every reboot
<moquist> Hardy *may* be better, then.
<moquist> Maybe.
<monteslu> centos 5 is my current favorite in server OS's, but whatever you want to build a script for works for me :)
#edubuntu 2008-05-29
<nhaddad> Any way to know which packages in edubuntu are available is Spanish?
<Circe> New to using IRC, what does it seem that freenode lags a lot
<RichEdcmpc> ogra: feeling better today i hope ?
<stgraber> RichEdcmpc: still in London ?
<RichEdcmpc> stgraber: indeed ...
<RichEdcmpc> a lot on the go at the moment ... but looking good to get some more structure & better attention to the channel & requests
<RichEdcmpc> stgraber: how are things your side ?
<ogra> RichEdcmpc, slightly better .... no more fever but still headdache like hell, coughing and running nose
<ogra> will be fun to be on stage on sat
<stgraber> RichEdcmpc: not much from Ubuntu side, waiting for a new release of iTalc (takes long ...) and I have 4 specs to do by Tuesday + exams next week
<stgraber> so that's paperwork and not a lot of real tech stuff
<RichEdcmpc> ping anyone ...
<blue-frog_> hi, things mounted in /media have their icons put on the desktop. where can I add other mountpoints?
<RichEd> ogra: hello >
 * stgraber is having fun trying to make a PXE-like wireless boot for thin clients
<stgraber> the only problem will be to have all wireless tools and drivers in the initrd, otherwise it's easy as long as you have a hdd (and script updating the kernel on the hdd)
<ogra> well, look at the initramfs hooks of udev for an example hw to get the wlan tools in
<stgraber> having iwconfig and wpa_supplicant will be the easy part (I already have them here), my problem is the kernel modules + firmware for intel wireless
<stgraber> if I have those loaded, you'll only need to boot the computer using standard ethernet once and then you'll have kernel+initrd installed on the hdd updating when they change on the server (checked every boot)
<stgraber> the wireless config would be stored in the initramfs and everything would just work (doesn't look so hard when described this way :))
<ogra> well, *anyone* can get your initramfs via tftp and read the key
<stgraber> anyone in this case would be someone with access on the network which in most case will be fine
<stgraber> the key could also be set as kernel parameter, would be a bit better I guess
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> i mean, well
<ogra> yu still can get it via tftp
<stgraber> nope
<ogra> there is no real secure solution here i guess
<stgraber> the key would be set by my install script and would be stored in the menu.lst on the client
<stgraber> in fact, I never use tftp except for the initial boot (before the local partition is created)
<stgraber> so the key would be written on the client hdd when installed and would never travel on the network
<stgraber> (with my setup, the only tftp query that's done is the one to get lts.conf, kernel and initrd are stored locally and updated when changed on the server)
<lns> Does anyone know if there is a way to install adblock-plus in Hardy for all users with a specific subscription list, so every time a user logs in for the first time it doesn't prompt them to subscribe? I'd love to use adblock but it seems redundant to have each user do this...and dunno whether this is a problem with the addon or with Firefox or with *buntu package... ?
#edubuntu 2008-05-30
<johnny> lns, i did that
<johnny> it just put the stuff in /etc/firefox
<johnny> nobody gets prompted
<johnny> ohnny@emma:~$ ls /etc/firefox-3.0/profile/adblockplus/
<johnny> patterns-backup1.ini  patterns.ini
<lns> johnny, you did what, just installed adblock-plus? no other steps?
<lns> oh
<lns> ;)
<johnny> i copied the files in there
<johnny> after installing it globally via apt-get
<lns> nice
<johnny> not necessarily a good idea to rely on apt-get for firefox extensions..
<johnny> but that's ok for now i guess
<lns> thank you..that'll save me a lot of headache (not to mention the teachers and techs)
<lns> johnny, why not?
<johnny> because who knows what'll happen when firefox itself sees another update for it
<johnny> when a new version comes out
<lns> true..
<lns> i'd hope the .deb would have some functionality to disable the checking for updates through ff
<johnny> it's never a good idea to maintain auto updating apps
<johnny> in two places
<johnny> same deal with using cpan for perl vs perl modules that are in debs due to deps on other packages
<johnny> etc
<johnny> it's not really a solvable problem atm
<newmonky> Is there any sort of Live CD for edubuntu?
<nixternal> newmonky: no LiveCD, just an addon CD
<nixternal> you can try to install the edubuntu-desktop from an Ubuntu LiveCD, but I don't know if allowed drive space permits
<newmonky> Ok thanks
<newmonky> I wanted to show it to my girlfriend (a schoolteacher), but we don't have a computer that we can format
<johnny> newmonky, you can dual boot, or use wubi
<johnny> wubi might be better
<johnny> or you could use virtual machine software
<johnny> like virtualbox or vmware
<johnny> wubi is prolly simplest, if it works
<johnny> i have heard it does, but i haven't used it
<newmonky> I can combine Wubi and edubuntu?
<johnny> yes
<johnny> edubuntu is just extra packages
<johnny> you can just install them
<johnny> there's prolly some meta package that pulls it all in
<johnny> it might be edubuntu-desktop
<newmonky> Ok thank you
<newmonky> I am wubing
<newmonky> If only I was not a gamer, then I could just reformat
<johnny> you could dual boot..
<johnny> more and more stuff works on wine tho
<johnny> guys are doing a bangup job
<newmonky> I have heard good things about wine
<newmonky> Open Source in general seems to be getting really good
<newmonky> Maybe I will dual boot eventually, I love the list of things you can add to Linux
<johnny> yeah.. the haters are all disappearing.. :)
<newmonky> Steve Balmer will not disappear
<johnny> sure.. but he's near irrelevant now
<newmonky> Thanks again, I am off to bed (and downloading it)
<[W][3][B]> !help
<ubottu> I am ubottu, the all-knowing infobot, standing in for ubotu while he's getting his haircut done, nose powdered, updated and transitioned to his new gorgeous looks in the near future ;)
<dean_za> Hi , I tried setting up a kiosk and since then all my clients are getting the kiosk image from nbd_server , I have since removed all traces of kiosk to try get my default install working and I cant seem to find where nbd_server is getting its info. Any one have any ideas ?
<RichEdcmpc> hi ... ogra you around ?
<Intrelude> hello
<Intrelude> anyone here?
<Intrelude> I installed 8.04 server.  I didn't get the desktop, so went through and installed the graphical desktop and now the edubuntu-desktop and edubuntu-server packages
<Intrelude> I'm new... I click on System -> Admin and I don't see where/how to modify/setup thin clients
<Intrelude> oh.. after installing desktop and server, I installed LTSP-manager, still don't see anything.
<Intrelude> also, eth0 is connected to a switch.  How do I set up DHCP so that it serves IPs on eth0.  eth1 is my connection to my school network (windows pcs).
<johnny> ltsp-manager shouldn't even be there..
#edubuntu 2008-05-31
 * pauljw is away: I'm no longer listening, so why are you still typing??
 * pauljw is back (gone 00:03:22)
#edubuntu 2008-06-01
<hobo666> how do I login?
<hobo666> First timer.  I can see that I didn't log out correctly, b/c my real nick (dan63043) is still there.  Op, could you kick that?
<Ashfire908> Can I set up a Edubuntu LTSP Server with the server cd (and kernel for the server itself) instead of the alternate cd?
<johnny> sure.. isntallthe proper packages
<johnny> there's a quick install doc on the ubunu wiki
<Ashfire908> Is there a way to do ltsp-build-client and not have to (re)download all the packages?
<Ashfire908> I have a very slow internet connection and it's going to take forever.
<johnny> there's a way
<johnny> i just don't know it
<Ashfire908> I have the edubuntu addon, ubuntu desktop, alternate and server, xubuntu alternate cds.
<Ashfire908> And some cached packages on y desktop and server.
<Ashfire908> Was ltsp-build-client made specially for ubuntu?
<johnny> it has plugins for many distros
<Ashfire908> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/BuildLTSPWithAptCacher
<Ashfire908> I'll just set up apt-proxy and import everything.
<juliux> ogra: ping
<Ashfire908> Is there a way to set a proxy for apt to use when getting files for ltsp-build-client?
<Ashfire908> nvm
#edubuntu 2009-05-25
<asanchez> Hi stgraber
<asanchez> Im Antonio Sanchez, from Isotrol (Canonical Silver Partner)
<Ahmuck_> got a question.  if we have a support contract with canonical, and submit a problem to them, they will put somebody on it to fix it?
<HedgeMage> Ahmuck_: I don't know... read the terms of your contract or contact Canonical about it.
<HedgeMage> AFAIK there are no Canonical reps in here.
<Vantrax> I've seen a bit of fuss kicked up about edubuntu lately, how healthy is it really?
<highvoltage> where is pygi?
<Ahmuck> *yawn*
<Ahmuck> point me to bug reporting
<Ahmuck> somebody ?
<pygi> hi highvoltage :p
<stgraber> hi pygi and highvoltage
<highvoltage> hi pygi
<highvoltage> and stgraber
<pygi> and hi stgraber :p
<pygi> stgraber: highvoltage : where are you folks located? You must be somewhere far away :D
<highvoltage> pygi: lol
<stgraber> ;)
<highvoltage> (hopefully no one will notice that we're standing next to each other talking over IRC)
<pygi> highvoltage: o com'on xD
<pygi> why did you tell them that? :D
<highvoltage> :D
 * pygi shoots highvoltage 
<Ahmuck> channel get's electrified because of pygi's highvoltage gun
<pygi> Ahmuck: :P
 * pygi shoots stgraber with his updates
<pygi> too much shooting going on, we should stop :)
<stgraber> heh
<pygi> stgraber: com'on! :p
<pygi> stgraber: ping test ;P
<Ahmuck> ack
<stgraber> pygi: pong test
<pygi> stgraber: hey, and how much did it take for the ping to reach you? xD
<pygi> stgraber: highvoltage : w00t, edubuntu on the screen :p
<pygi> highvoltage: stgraber : I am disappointed ;P
<stgraber> yeah :)
<Ahmuck> muting the sound, and sound control on the edubuntu ltsp server does not work
<Ahmuck> it's broke
<Ahmuck> where do i file a bug
<pygi> is anyone from the edubuntu community at the UDS? :P
<pygi> apart from me, stgraber , highvoltage and laserjock
<bencrisford1> Vantrax|Home: Hey :)
<bencrisford1> I saw your message to the mailing list :)
<Ahmuck> as well as i
<Vantrax|Home> Hi
<Vantrax|Home> Just catching up on the back logs now
<Vantrax|Home> seems like people are getting tied up with the devil in the details a bit
<Vantrax|Home> I have a few questions from reading the threads from this month
<nubae> Vantrax|Home: saw u're mail... goo d that u are interested in helping out
<nubae> where do you see yourself getting involved?
<Vantrax|Home> not sure at this stage
<Vantrax|Home> Im already on the board of another major ubuntu community project that is sucking up alot of time
<Vantrax|Home> the comment made about Edubuntu vs packages is accurate Edubuntu makes it appear to be a distribution
<bencrisford1> Vantrax|Home: Just out of interest; what project is it you are on the board for?
<Vantrax|Home> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning
<bencrisford1> Ah, yes I have signed up for that project
<bencrisford1> at the moment im just working out how i can get involved#
<nubae> well, thats the image we'd like to change... some of us have commited ourselves to turn edubuntu back into a distro
<nubae> as is the case for xubunut, studio, kubuntu, etc
<Vantrax|Home> atm were in a bit of a holding pattern. We have a Canonical go ahead from sabfl but were waiting on CC to approve
<Vantrax|Home> nubae, that turns into a numbers game then, how many contributors do you have? Can you sustain the level of development required?
<bencrisford1> ill follow this project whereever it goes
<bencrisford1> I think we have alot of people willing to contribute, but perhaps not as much as others
<nubae> the idea that its just metapackages at this stage makes it seem almost useless... we really need a well themed educational distro that contains both officially supported edu apps, the current packs, and universe edu apps, which we are in the process of testing, and meta packaging, then we include a nice edu theme, combine with some backend stuff like moodle, mahara, class, schooltool, and finally incorporate ltsp...
<nubae> then we have a distro we can all actually use
<nubae> Vantrax|Home: right it does
<bencrisford1> Vantrax|Home: This action item was decided at the meeting on friday concerning the learning project:
<bencrisford1> "Action item: bencrisford2 to look into collaboration opportunities with the Ubuntu Learning project"
<nubae> but there are many folks that have lately commited themselves, so we'll see what happens
<Vantrax|Home> lol:P I made that easy for you
<nubae> I'Ve been around long enough
<bencrisford1> I guess I can talk to you about that Vantrax|Home :)
<Vantrax|Home> That you can, what can we do for you?
<nubae> to see both action and inaction, one has to have hope that this time round, people will pick up the ball
<bencrisford1> Vantrax, ill PM you, there is two converstations going at once here :P
<Vantrax> nubae its my experience you need to have several short measurable goals to get the ball rolling. Ones everyone can get behind and see done quickly.
<Vantrax> before that you need to look at what is critical, then prioritise, for identity i think your right about theme, but you need themes for different targets
<nubae> yeah, for me its about turning it back into a distro... thats where my involvment lies... that and sugar, which I currently package for opensuse, but using the same build tools, we can package for ubuntu too
<nubae> anyway, the distro stuff, I wont be able to look into for at least a month, but we have time, we have commited to doing that along side LTS releases
<nubae> after all, most teachers/sysadmins at schools, dont want to install every 6 months
<Vantrax> as a sysadmin, 2 years
<Vantrax> minimum
<nubae> currently the addon is released every 6 months.... also, we will move to a dvd/usb live distro method, so it can be shown off in schools
<Vantrax> you want a least one year to develop on a new version while the old is still supported
<nubae> right... LTS is 2-4 years support, which is plenty
<nubae> right... which is why the next release for karmic will continue to be the addon, perhaps with an extras addon containing universe apps...
<nubae> then for the LTS, which is about a year from now, we will release the live distro in dvd/usb format
<Vantrax> the live distro will go a long way I think, cprofitt works with the US edu system somewhere, he would be good to talk to
<nubae> so, there u have the background, now IÃ'm curious where u want to be involved
<Vantrax> id do a little bit of surveying on http://community.k12opensource.com http://www.classroom20.com about what educators are after
<Vantrax> how many teachers are in this team?
<alkisg> The problem isn't the goals, it's the lack of contributors..
<Vantrax> nubae not quite sure yet, im still working out where I can make a difference with the limitations on time that I have
<Vantrax> from talkig with ben I think i have and idea how this could work
<Vantrax> alkisg what was the last goal the team achived? is there a plan somewhere?
<Vantrax> how many problems come from configuration issues in schools. Teachers not understanding how to do something?
<alkisg> Vantrax: what team?
<Vantrax> installing ltsp, or updating with local repositories, or pushing out patches and updates
<Vantrax> alkisg the team that works on edubuntu
<alkisg> The problem isn't the goals, it's that noone's left to form a team
<Vantrax> ahh
<alkisg> In the previous releases, LaserJock almost single-handedly produced the add-on
<Vantrax> ill see what support I can drum up then, where is the biggest hole, developers?
<alkisg> Now a few people want edubuntu to become a distro again, and that's what they'll work on, if given a chance
<Vantrax> thats tough
<alkisg> Yes, we lack devs
<Vantrax> unfortunately so does Ubuntu
<highvoltage> yay I have power again \o/
<highvoltage> btw, I found the guadalinex guys
<highvoltage> told them that we're having a session later
<stgraber> highvoltage: is session confirmed ?
<stgraber> I don't see it on the schedule
<pygi> stgraber: jono didn't confirm
<highvoltage> stgraber: asking pygi on jabber now, hopefully he'll show up here as well
<highvoltage> ah cool
<highvoltage> (as in pygi is here)
<highvoltage> yeah jono is talkking a lot, we;ll just corner him after this session
<stgraber> ok, if it's confirmed I can mention it during my plenary talk
<pygi> stgraber: but its not yet
<pygi> highvoltage: if you find him, please just tell him to check his email
<stgraber> but I'll have to give the slides in half an hour or so
<pygi> stgraber: :-/
<pygi> stgraber: let me check the mail
<pygi> no answer from jono, stgraber
<stgraber> dohh
<Ahmuck_> got a question.  any reason one can't use qimo at the base distro?
<bencrisford1> pygi: You at the UDS then?
<pygi> bencrisford1: yes
<bencrisford1> how is it?
<pygi> stgraber: did you find the guadelinux folks
<pygi> bencrisford1: its ok, we're discussing some bazaar stuff :)
<stgraber> pygi: yup, going to have lunch with them
<pygi> stgraber: oh!
<asanchez> we are here :D
<pygi> asanchez: !
<pygi> why didn't you wait for us outside after the plenary?
<asanchez> ok
<pygi> lol
<stgraber> asanchez: where ? :) (I'm currently in the lobby)
<pygi> ok what? :D
<asanchez> we can lunch together
<AngusRF> hi there
<bencrisford1> AngusRF: Hey
<AngusRF> my problem: I'Ve decided to create a new client image on my edubuntu 9.04 setup (because client-image-update falied). SO i moved the old i386 dir and did 'ltsp-build-client --arch i386'
<AngusRF> now, the building process ended, saying  "E: couldn't find edubuntu-artwork-usplash"
<AngusRF> And the clients do not boot anymore (logical, the client system is incomplete)
<pygi> stgraber: if you want to go with us (with asanchez, and the rest of people) and bazaar people... just follow us :p
<AngusRF> But a missing artwork package seems to me like a quite small problem that shouldn't affect the complete installation.
<pygi> I think we'll go to lunch soon too
<AngusRF> anyway, I don't understand WHY the packagen wasn't found
<stgraber> pygi: where's lunch ?
<AngusRF> do you know the problem?
<pygi> stgraber: in this building
<stgraber> pygi: ok, where ? :)
<pygi> stgraber: in a restaurant :p
<bencrisford1> AngusRF: Report it as a bug
<pygi> stgraber: sorry, I don't have any idea :)
<bencrisford1> im a lil busy right now
<bencrisford1> but ill check it out later
<pygi> bencrisford1: are you at UDS?
<bencrisford1> nope :(
<bencrisford1> where is UDS this year anyway?
<AngusRF> okay
<pygi> bencrisford1: Barcelona
<bencrisford1> cool
<pygi> AngusRF: sorry, its just that Edubuntu is in a state of mess right now :-/
<AngusRF> too bad :(
<pygi> stgraber: going to lunch now, see you there :)
<stgraber> yeah, leaving for some food too.
<pygi> stgraber: just find me somewhere
<bencrisford1> stgraber, pygi: What time is it in barcelona?
<bencrisford1> or have you already gone...?
<AngusRF> its' probably 12:04 there
<AngusRF> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/224899
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 224899 in ubuntu "ltsp-build-client fails to complete setup (dup-of: 221894)" [Undecided,New]
<AngusRF> that's for xubuntu
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 221894 in ltsp "installing ltsp-server-standalone fails cant find xubuntu-artwork-usplash" [Low,Fix released]
<AngusRF> but it seem to be the same
<AngusRF> hm nice bot
<stgraber> bencrisford1: 13:24
<bencrisford1> oh, :) 1 hour ahead of me stgraber
<stgraber> bencrisford1: you in the uk ?
<bencrisford1> yeah
<bencrisford1> stgraber*
<bencrisford1> AngusRF: Tell me about this bug then :)
<AngusRF> okay, one more question: I've got edubuntu jaunty amd64 installed. I'm trying to do ltsp-build-client --arch i386. But it keeps failing, saying it cannot find "edubuntu-artwork-usplash". By now I have found out  that this is logical, because the package has been removed from jaunty. I found a comment to a bugreport stating that it has been replace by edubuntu-artwork. Is there a way for me to make the client system not depend on that no-l
<AngusRF> onger-existing package?
<sbalneav> Morning all
<sbalneav> Morning all
<AngusRF> morning sbalneav
<stgraber> hi sbalneav
<sbalneav> Hmm, sabayon-2.25 now depends on python-xdg
<sbalneav> I think I add that to the control.in file.
<sbalneav> Hm.  Well, got a package.
<pygi> highvoltage: stgraber : poke
<highvoltage> pygi: poke
<pygi> highvoltage: the session is tomorrow at 11
<pygi> we need to come up with list of questions
<pygi> and stuff that we need to discuss
<highvoltage> pygi: ok
<highvoltage> pygi: dent it too, we need to let people know
<stgraber> k
<highvoltage> and you too
<highvoltage> pygi: do we have a room no?
<pygi> highvoltage: yes
<pygi> find it on the schedule for tomorrow
<highvoltage> pygi: oh, cool
<highvoltage> swimming with the ducks
<highvoltage> hehe
<sbalneav> OK, I've dput'd a sabayon-2.25 package to my ppd
<sbalneav> err, ppa
<sbalneav> we'll see if it gets there
<pygi> sbalneav: hi :)
<pygi> highvoltage: its great! :p
<pygi> stop messing with my names :p
<sbalneav> Once I do the dput, it should build from there with no more intervention on my part, correct?
<pygi> stgraber: tell him that I am dangerous :p
<sbalneav> Rejected:
<sbalneav> Signer has no upload rights at all to this distribution.
<sbalneav> Not permitted to upload to the RELEASE pocket in a series in the 'CURRENT' state.
<sbalneav> Here's my dput.cf
<sbalneav> [sbalneav]
<sbalneav> incoming = ~sbalneav/ppa/ubuntu/
<sbalneav> allow_unsigned_uploads = 0
<sbalneav> Anyone have any ideas?
<stgraber> that's for your ppa right ?
<stgraber> [stgraber]
<stgraber> fqdn = ppa.launchpad.net
<stgraber> method = ftp
<stgraber> incoming = ~stgraber/ppa/ubuntu/
<stgraber> login = anonymous
<stgraber> allow_unsigned_uploads = 0
<sbalneav> OK, I can try that, any idea why I got the REJECTED email?
<stgraber> sbalneav: any better with this one ? if it doesn't then something is wrong with your gpg key
<stgraber> sbalneav: either the source wasn't signed correctly or launchpad doesn't know the right gpg key
<stgraber> highvoltage: can you copy/paste what you did from the internal gobby to gobby.ubuntu.com ?
<highvoltage> stgraber: I couldn't access either gobby session most of the day
<stgraber> gobby.u.c just came back, don't know for the internal one
<stgraber> highvoltage: what was that "yes" on identi.ca ?
<highvoltage> stgraber: it was actually meant for another window (d'oh!)
<stgraber> ogra: ping
<ogra> pong
<stgraber> do you know your schedule from tomorrow, especially between 11am and 1pm ?
<ogra> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-karmic/track/mobile/
<ogra> i need to be in the blue android session, not sure about either of the other two
<stgraber> ok, 11:00 => 12:00 is edubuntu, then ltsp from 12:00 to 13:00
<stgraber> so if you aren't needed for the green ones it'll be fine
<sbalneav> No, still didn't build.
<sbalneav> Rejected:
<sbalneav> Signer has no upload rights at all to this distribution.
<stgraber> what did you use as command for the upload ?
<sbalneav> dput sabayon-blashblah.changes
<sbalneav> Am I missing some option?
<sbalneav> Looks to me like it's trying to upload to main, as opposed to my ppa
<alkisg> sbalneav: cat ~/.dput.cf  ?
<alkisg> fqdn = ppa.launchpad.net        incoming = ~sbalneav/ppa/ubuntu/
<sbalneav> Hm
<sbalneav> We'll see if this is any better
<sbalneav> dput sbalneav blahblah.changes
<sbalneav> Yup, that's got it.
<sbalneav> pending jaunty builds
<sbalneav> I've found a bug already.
<highvoltage> stgraber: are you around?
<stgraber> highvoltage: sure, in the lobby
<stgraber> highvoltage: you ?
<sbalneav> If anyone's interested, keep an eye on my ppa.  I'm working over the next 2-3 weeks on getting a functioning sabayon.
<sbalneav> After that, I'll start digging into the system-tool-backends ldap problem.
<stgraber> sbalneav: kewl
<stgraber> sbalneav: be careful with that, we want to get rid of it IIRC :)
<highvoltage> stgraber: I'm upstairs, will probably come down in just a bit
<highvoltage> stgraber: hang on, lobby at hotel or at the conference center?
<stgraber> highvoltage: ok, I'll probably be there with that no food before 8pm thingy :)
<stgraber> highvoltage: hotel
<highvoltage> k
<stgraber> sbalneav: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/security-karmic-replace-gst
<sbalneav> stgraber: ok, I've subscribed.
<LaserJock> hola Edubunteros!
<LaserJock> highvoltage: ping
<da_bboxking> what do i do when it say, "only one management application tool can run at the same time?
<stgraber> hi LaserJock
<stgraber> sorry, was doing some networking with highvoltage
<highvoltage> ey LaserJock
<highvoltage> I finally have network \o/
<highvoltage> (via cable via stgraber's machine)
<highvoltage> LaserJock: we've been looking at the strategy doc and have some suggestions, just want to run them by you
<LaserJock> great
<highvoltage> In Areas of Focus... there's LTSP/Administration as focus 2 and Sugar as focus 3
<highvoltage> shouldn't the LTSP/Sugar kind of things be combined as a focus for having good upstream rlationships and bringing the best of upstream to edubuntu, and then we just list ltsp, sugar, kde-edu etc as examples of projects that we want to work closely with?
<LaserJock> right, at the time there was seemingly a big Ubuntu Sugar team ready to really get some big stuff going
<sbalneav> New sabayon-2.25-0ubuntu3 package uploaded to my ppa
<LaserJock> so I was placing more emphasis on Sugar
<sbalneav> fixed crasher bug, xnest now launches with desktop
<highvoltage> LaserJock: ok, so you're ok with that being changed?
<LaserJock> but I'm more of a mind now to not put specific apps as an Area of Focus
<LaserJock> highvoltage: so what do you want to change the areas to be?
<LaserJock> sbalneav: awesome!
<LaserJock> sbalneav: you don't happen to be using bzr for that are you?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: not so much the areas as how it is phrased. so the objective should be more about relationships with the important education related upstream projects
<highvoltage> LaserJock: and then the specifics are listed and explained in that focus area
<LaserJock> well, I would like to group them better
<LaserJock> between learning, teaching, and administration I think
<LaserJock> Sugar I think would be in learning
<LaserJock> LTSP would be in administration
<LaserJock> know what I mean?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: otherwise we have to list gcompris, kde-edu, ltsp, sugar, etc, etc as each their own focus area, which wouldwaste space on the document and it won't be inclusive of other upstream projects we might want to add in the future
<da_bboxking> ï»¿what do i do when it say, "only one management application tool can run at the same time?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I understand that rationale.
<LaserJock> highvoltage: right, I think listing some core packages in the relevant Area of Focus would work
<LaserJock> but we don't need to list everything
<LaserJock> Sugar and LTSP are more than just your normal app, it's a decent sized commitment so I think they're worth mentioning
<highvoltage> LaserJock: at least it's a wiki, I'll just make some changes, if it's anything too intrusive I'll let you know, and if there's anything you disagree with we can discuss it?
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> hack away at it
<sbalneav> LaserJock: What part should I bzr, the whole source tree? Or just the debian directory?  So far, I've simply used a stock upstream tarball, and have been using cdbs-edit-patches to patch what needed to be fixed.
<LaserJock> sbalneav: I'm thinking that maybe ~edubuntu-dev could be used for this
<stgraber> sbalneav: then, only the debian directory is fine, thanks for using cdbs  :)
<sbalneav> ok
<LaserJock> sbalneav: one could take the bzr branch from http://package-import.ubuntu.com/s/sabayon/
<highvoltage> LaserJock, stgraber, sbalneav: perhaps we should gobby it?
<sbalneav> ok, I'll see what I need to do.
<LaserJock> my guess is that we're going to have more than one patch :-)
<highvoltage> (if you guys have time and have the energy now?)
<sbalneav> lemme go get a cup of coffee.
<stgraber> highvoltage: yeah, sounds good
<sbalneav> Are you guys in a session right now?
<LaserJock> sbalneav: I can get you a branch to work from I think
<highvoltage> sbalneav: nope, sessions are done for today
<highvoltage> sbalneav: but we want to be as ready as possible for the session tomorrow
<LaserJock> stgraber: you're the owner of ~edubuntu-dev
<highvoltage> gobby.ubuntu.com
<LaserJock> stgraber: can you add myself, highvoltage, and sbalneav to ~edubuntu-dev?
<highvoltage> document name is EdubuntuStrategyDocument
<LaserJock> ok, I think I'm there
<stgraber> LaserJock: sure
<highvoltage> Edubuntu Council...
<highvoltage> we said that we're going to establish a kind of Technical Board
<LaserJock> sbalneav: are you mixing gobby and here
<LaserJock> ?
<highvoltage> but also that the council and the technical board will be one thing
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I'm just talking to stgraber about how Kubuntu does things in terms of the Kubuntu Council
<LaserJock> ah
<sbalneav> I was talking in gobby, yeah
<highvoltage> LaserJock: their council does community, technical and release management all in one right?
<LaserJock> basically I think so
<LaserJock> in other words the Kubuntu Council is the go-to body for high-level decisions in Kubuntu
<highvoltage> LaserJock: is it necessary to list status in the strategy document? I think the strategy document should be something that's more static
<LaserJock> yeah, that was sbalneav ;-p
<highvoltage> ok
<LaserJock> we should extract out status for karmic though sometime
<highvoltage> sbalneav: I'm just going to remove the status part of Sabayon. we can put it in a regular report that can go into UWN :)
<sbalneav> That's fine, I'm just throwning things in there
<highvoltage> LaserJock: could you create the edubuntu council team so long or would you want to run that by CC first?
<LaserJock> creating the team should be a no-op
<LaserJock> as we'd just be shuffling the organization, not changing the composition
<sbalneav> LaserJock: Looks like that bzr tree you have includes the upstream code as well.  I'd like to stick to just managing the debian/ tree, and have all patches occurr with cdbs.
<highvoltage> LaserJock: ok cool. I think it would be nice if we could do that ASAP as well
<LaserJock> sbalneav: it'll work ok I think, this is supposedly how we're going to be doing everything soonish
<stgraber> LaserJock: we're discussing the need of edubuntu-dev as it's basically exactly the same members of edubuntu-members
<stgraber> shouldn't we go with only edubuntu-members as kubuntu does and when we go bigger, then split developers from others ?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: "the EC team are people elected by edubuntu members..."
<highvoltage> LaserJock: is that entirely true? I mean, our current EC was just elected by people on the mailing list, before we even had edubuntu members
<highvoltage> LaserJock: ok stgraber just made a good point. that's how it can be from now on.
<LaserJock> sorry, wife decided it was lunch time :/
<highvoltage> ok
<LaserJock> I think edubuntu-dev should be different than -members
<highvoltage> LaserJock: while I'm busy flood-asking you stuff... can I add testing iso images as a function of the edubutnu bugsquad as well?
<LaserJock> -members is anybody who's made a significant, sustained contribution, it will likely have nothing to do with packaging
<LaserJock> therefore I wanted a team of technically OK contributors
<LaserJock> and a place to work on packaging with bzr and PPAs
<highvoltage> LaserJock: ok, that makes sense. I agree but stgraber is making funny faces and looking sceptical
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> stgraber: what's your issue with it?
<stgraber> well, mainly that currently it's not quite needed :)
<stgraber> in your mind would one have to go trough the council again to join -dev ?
<LaserJock> sbalneav: https://code.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-dev/sabayon/upstream
<LaserJock> no
<stgraber> or would any technical member be part of -dev ?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: but someone has to be a member first before they can be a -dev?
<LaserJock> it'd be Edubuntu Members who want to work on packaging and have shown that they're unlikely to ruin everything
<LaserJock> I would equate it to the Universe Contributors for MOTU
<highvoltage> ok cool
<LaserJock> I wanted a team for people who are not yet MOTU/Core Dev to collaborate and actually have packages made
<stgraber> ok, so it's a council member making the decision on whether or not to join the -dev team, it's not a defacto right ?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I'm re-typing that on line 77, feel free to check and edit
<LaserJock> perhaps, or perhaps just another member of ~edubuntu-dev
<LaserJock> I think it could be very loose
<LaserJock> I just wanted a place to dump bzr/PPAs and collect packagers
<stgraber> ok
<LaserJock> that 1) wasn't *everybody* and 2) didn't require MOTU/Core Dev
<LaserJock> -members could work, but I personally like the separation
<stgraber> would we do it the kubuntu way ? with bzr branches for basically everything we maintain
<stgraber> then core devs doing the review and uploading ?
<LaserJock> ideally anything that we actually have divergence on, yes
<LaserJock> so we can handle contributions easier
<LaserJock> than poking me on IRC/mailing list
<LaserJock> bzr merge requests
<LaserJock> and having PPAs allows us to test packages
<stgraber> well, IIRC for Kubuntu it's not even bzr merge, the distro packaging is done in the equivalent of -dev and it's just the uploader's work to review before uploading someone else's changes
<stgraber> that's even easier
<highvoltage> LaserJock: do we still want a website team? Or should we rather make that a function of the edubuntu-doc team?
<stgraber> a developer without upload rights can still update the packaging, can put it in the PPA if he wants and when he thinks it's good enough he asks someone to review it and upload
<highvoltage> ok I'm taking it out
<LaserJock> stgraber: right, I'm just saying that *anybody* could do a merge request, even if they're not in the team
<LaserJock> I liked the idea of having the website team
<highvoltage> LaserJock: hmm, ok. I really like the idea of having less teams
<LaserJock> I do too
<LaserJock> but with openID and LP
<LaserJock> we could make the editors linked to the LP team
<stgraber> from what we discussed with highvoltage, basically updating the doc on the website would be part of the docteam work
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I can't think of a real reason to have a website team, although I suppose it's useful for filing web bugs against
<LaserJock> that was the only big thing I was thinking of
<stgraber> and posting release notes and managing the website would be part of the council work
<stgraber> so not real need for a separate team containing both teams
<LaserJock> ok, ok, that sounds good
<LaserJock> yeah, go for it
<LaserJock> we can always change things later as needed
<LaserJock> fewer teams is better
<LaserJock> I'm very much in favor of tying docs and website
<highvoltage> yep, I guess the goal is to just have a strat doc that we're all in agreeal with so that we can agree that we're one community with the same goals and just move forward
<LaserJock> yes, that would be ideal :-0
<LaserJock> :-) rather
<LaserJock> regarding bugsquad and .iso testing
<LaserJock> I think you could add that as one of the things they do
<LaserJock> though they shouldn't be the only ones doing it
<LaserJock> if we had a *lot* of packages, etc. I'd say split it up into bugs and testing
<LaserJock> but in reality it's more like Edubuntu QA, which would include both of those
<highvoltage> LaserJock: we need to get lns, pygi, sbalneav members again too
<LaserJock> hmm, 2 should be quorum ;-)
<LaserJock> this bootstraping issue is a bit annoying
<LaserJock> I don't exactly want to toss out all the rules as it calls into question the legitimacy of the decisions
<LaserJock> but realistically, who'd ever object to lns and nubae becoming members and reinstating expired people?
 * LaserJock is away for a few
<alkisg> LaserJock: don't bother with legitimacy, we prefer you as a dictator :)
<highvoltage> LaserJock: well this is a unique situation, and we only have it because canonical employees completely left withouth any communication or proper handover
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I think it's a unique situation and I think that taking steps to fill the gaps is necessary. I think you're right with 2 as a quorum, since that's technically 100% of the council
<LaserJock> well, then shall we? :-)
<highvoltage> yes.
<stgraber> ;)
 * highvoltage schedules an EC meeting at 18:30 UTC on 25 May 2009
<highvoltage> LaserJock: if you can make it, of course
<highvoltage> you might be busy that day.
<LaserJock> today is 25 May isn't it?
<highvoltage> yes?
<LaserJock> when is 18:30? 1min?
<highvoltage> yes?
<highvoltage> your ntp broken?
<LaserJock> it's the UTC that gets me
<highvoltage> heh, ok
<bencrisford1> Hey LaserJock :)
<bencrisford1> highvoltage: you're at the UDS right?
<LaserJock> === Edubuntu Council Meeting Starts === ;-)
<highvoltage> *bong*
<highvoltage> Agenda:
<highvoltage> Reinstate Mario Danic, Jordan Erickson as members
<highvoltage> Approve Stefane Graber as EC member
<highvoltage> (or approve Jordan Erickson, even)
<highvoltage> LaserJock: is there anyone I left out?
<highvoltage> https://launchpad.net/~edubuntu-members/+members
<LaserJock> hang on  a sec
<highvoltage> and Scott Balneaves, of course
<highvoltage> ok
<LaserJock> Lns was not a member
<LaserJock> he and nubae were up for membership
<highvoltage> should we have another EC meeting later this week and approve them
<highvoltage> iirc they have to state their case and list their contributions if they haven't been a member already?
<bencrisford1> highvoltage: excuse my interruption, but do you really need to go through that?
<bencrisford1> they clearly deserve it
<LaserJock> it would be preferable for them to be there
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: membership is not a trivial thing
<highvoltage> bencrisford1: it's the process. membership isn't taken very lightly
<LaserJock> it is important that their qualifications be addressed
<highvoltage> bencrisford1: agreeing to the Ubuntu Code of Conduct is also an absolute requirement
<LaserJock> Ubuntu Membership is defined by a significant and sustained contributions to Ubuntu
<highvoltage> bencrisford1: remember that ubuntu members actually represent ubuntu directly, you can print ubuntu business cards and you even get an @ubuntu.com email address
<highvoltage> bencrisford1: so we can't hand them out like sweeties :)
<highvoltage> LaserJock: stgraber and I are hungry, so we need to get back to business
<LaserJock> lol
<bencrisford1> highvoltage: I know, but still, they could easily do it now
<bencrisford1> would take minutes...
<stgraber> as they aren't already Ubuntu members, giving them edubuntu membership will make them ubuntu members as well
<highvoltage> bencrisford1: if they were here
<bencrisford1> oh
<stgraber> so we need to follow the regular procedure for ubuntu membership
<highvoltage> stgraber: yep
<highvoltage> stgraber: that was the agreement with the Community Council
<stgraber> that would be less the case if they were already ubuntu members, in this case the only difference is basically and @edubuntu.org email
<LaserJock> ok, so vote #1: reinstate pygi
<highvoltage> stgraber: I don't think we have it on 'paper' anywhere, but that's how it is
<highvoltage> +1
<LaserJock> is he really going to be around for a while?
<highvoltage> he has been the last few weeks
<highvoltage> and I've spoken to him and he has committed to be here for edubuntu
<LaserJock> he seemed interested at the meeting
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> +1
<highvoltage> ok, so that's pygi
<LaserJock> vote #2: reinstate sbalneav
<LaserJock> sbalneav: you up for it?
<highvoltage> sbalneav: you've been involved and you haven't left us ever really
<highvoltage> sbalneav: you've just expired in launchpad, can we reactivate you?
<LaserJock> well, he committed to sabayon
<LaserJock> and he can deactivate again if he wants ;-)
<highvoltage> LaserJock: weird. usually people ask the council to become members :)
<highvoltage> LaserJock: ok +1!
<LaserJock> heh, extraordinary circumstances
<LaserJock> +1 here
<highvoltage> I'm sure he would have agreed as well
<highvoltage> so that is the members we can do for now
<highvoltage> shall we move over to the EC part that we can do right now?
<LaserJock> unless cbx33 or jsgontanco want back in ;-)
<highvoltage> I think we'll need some more discussion with both of them
<highvoltage> they have both displayed interest and I think they are perhaps a bit sceptical
<highvoltage> I think we should bring them in at the next one and have at least a small amount of formal discussion?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: tell your wife we need your undivided attention for just 10 minutes :p
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> agreed
<LaserJock> https://launchpad.net/~edubuntu-council has been created
<highvoltage> I'd like to propose stgraber as a member of the edubuntu council
<LaserJock> stgraber: do you wish to join the council?
<stgraber> sure
<highvoltage> stgraber: congratulations and welcome
<LaserJock> vote #3: stgrabe for Edubuntu Council
<highvoltage> oops
<LaserJock> dude, we gotta vote first ;-)
<highvoltage> well, +1 :)
<LaserJock> +1 based on position as Ubuntu Developer, maintenance of core Edubuntu programs, and generally being a stand-up guy
<highvoltage> stgraber: \o/  congratulations and welcome \o/
<bencrisford1> i dont think i can vote cos im just a noob, but i think he should be
<stgraber> thanks
<stgraber> (that was easy :))
<highvoltage> I'd like to propose that we implement a quorum of 2/3 until we have a full compliment of EC members
<LaserJock> +1
<stgraber> +1
<highvoltage> +1
<highvoltage> any other items for this meeting?
<LaserJock> I think we should arrange for votes for 2 more members ASAP
<highvoltage> LaserJock: agreed
<LaserJock> perhaps *after* the next round of memberships though
<stgraber> yeah
<highvoltage> LaserJock: sounds good
<highvoltage> welcome to Edubuntu 2.0
<highvoltage> Edubuntu Project 2.0, at least
<LaserJock> highvoltage: can you send out sort of a meeting minutes?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: can I hit the bong?
<LaserJock> it would be good to have on record (edubuntu-devel anyway) what we did
<LaserJock> yes
<stgraber> highvoltage: feel free
<highvoltage> meeting adjourned.
<highvoltage> *BONG*
<stgraber> fooood !!!
<bencrisford1> LaserJock: I'm always around, so if you tell me when meetings are, ill do the minutes for you
<highvoltage> minutes will be posted to edubuntu-devel after stgraber and I get some food :)
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: ok, awesome. thanks for the offer
<sbalneav> sorry, was afk  for a bit
<stgraber> sbalneav: welcome back as an edubuntu member
<LaserJock> sbalneav: you're back in ~edubuntu-members, so tough luck if you didn't want it
<sbalneav> Was I out?
<LaserJock> you were
<LaserJock> you expired
<sbalneav> ah, ok
<LaserJock> highvoltage: I'm not sure about having "Upstream Relations" as an area of focus
<LaserJock> that would seem to me to be more just "best practice", it doesn't particularly set us apart
<LaserJock> however, maybe the "upstream software testbed" focus would be a good idea
<LaserJock> sbalneav: https://code.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-dev/sabayon/ubuntu is the current Ubuntu packaging with 2.25.0 merged in
<LaserJock> sbalneav: ^^ is what we'd likely be uploading to karmic
<pygi> highvoltage: stgraber: LaserJock : hi
<LaserJock> hi
<pygi> LaserJock: since when am I an edubuntu member? :)
<pygi> and are you coming to the session tomorrow?
<LaserJock> I'm not at UDS and it will be 2am for me
<pygi> ohhh
<pygi> sorry :)
<sbalneav> LaserJock: Did you use the stuff I did to merge in to that package?
<LaserJock> sbalneav: no, I kept it pure to start with
<sbalneav> Do I have write access to that branch?
<LaserJock> sbalneav: yep
<sbalneav> okie
<LaserJock> you should be able to drop your patch in there
<LaserJock> I haven't tried to build it yet though
<sbalneav> There was also a change to the control.in file, as there's now a build-dep on python-xdg
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> sbalneav: that's at build time?
<sbalneav> Well, I changed the control.in file in debian, and did a debuild -S -sa
<sbalneav> Is that build time? :)
<sbalneav> I'm still learning here
<LaserJock> I meant, did you put python-xdg in Build-Depends or Depends?
<sbalneav> Both
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> not sure if it's needed in Depends but we can sort that later
<bencrisford2> LaserJock: I had a bit of an idea
<LaserJock> bencrisford2: yeah?
<bencrisford2> How about an edubuntu openweek
<bencrisford2> I dont mean like the ubuntu one
<LaserJock> sbalneav: your package crashes for me before getting to the desktop
<bencrisford2> this one could be aimed at developers
<bencrisford2> we could have a schedule like Monday - bug fixing/triaging, tuesday - artwork, etc.
<LaserJock> well, I like the idea
<LaserJock> I don't know that we could do a whole week though
<bencrisford2> maybe not a whole week yeah
<bencrisford2> a few days though
<LaserJock> perhaps Edubuntu OpenDay?
<LaserJock> OpenDays
<bencrisford2> sounds good
<bencrisford2> :)
<LaserJock> there would have to be people to run it
<bencrisford2> yeah, but if we spread out the sessions amongst us...
<bencrisford2> some people might be doing more than one or two though
<bencrisford2> in fact we could do a whole week but only have one or two sessions a day
<LaserJock> sbalneav: what do you have in /root/sabayon-debug-log.conf ?
<bencrisford2> that would make it easier for people to attend the sessions
<pygi> LaserJock: should I mention that idea tomorrow at the session?
<LaserJock> pygi: go for it
<bencrisford2> pygi: Which idea?
<pygi> bencrisford2: the one with openday(s)
<bencrisford2> oh :) what session would that be pygi?  at the UDS i assume?
<LaserJock> if people will commit to running them there's no reason not to
<pygi> bencrisford2: yes
<LaserJock> OpenWeek has been pretty successful for getting awareness out and getting  people interested in helping out
<bencrisford2> i love the idea of my idea being mentioned at a UDS
<bencrisford2> makes me feel really special :P
<pygi> bencrisford2: :)
<LaserJock> bencrisford2: well, that's what Ubuntu's all about :-)
<bencrisford2> yeah :)
<bencrisford2> im up for membership next month
<bencrisford2> :S
<bencrisford2> i dont think ill get it :/
<bencrisford2> but you never know
<sbalneav> LaserJock: I had a crasher in profilesdialog.py, which I fixed
<pygi> just be patient :)
<LaserJock> bencrisford2: wait for 2 months
<pygi> and work those two months :p
<LaserJock> bencrisford2: I'm guessing by then you'll have accumulated a good list of contributions
<bencrisford2> well i have a half decent list at the moment
<LaserJock> bencrisford2: but make sure to write them down on your wiki page
<bencrisford2> and im contributing more every day
<bencrisford2> i need more testimonials, but most of my work is triaging so not many testimonials come with that unfortunately
<bencrisford2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BenCrisford - theres my page if you're interested
<sbalneav> LaserJock: Where's yours crash?
<LaserJock> sbalneav: don't know, I need to get a decent log
<LaserJock> sbalneav: but it's before the desktop loads
<LaserJock> seems like about the same time as that paneldelegate.py crasher
<sbalneav> Hm, the machine I'm doing this on is using UNR, which has a different panel config.
<sbalneav> I'm wondering if maybe the problem's in Ubuntu's default panel xml diddly bit.
<LaserJock> sbalneav: yeah, I think there are definitely assumptions about the panels that sabayon is making
<sbalneav> wondering if there's an empty name field in /etc/gconf/schemas/panel-default-setup.entries
<sbalneav> Because iirc, your patch fixed a crash if the name of the panel was empty
<LaserJock> yeah
<sbalneav> ok
<sbalneav> try this.
<sbalneav> use gconf editor, and try the following:
<sbalneav> apps->panels>toplevel
<sbalneav> you should have top_panel_screen0, and bottom_panel_screen0
<sbalneav> Try adding a string in the empty "name" field
<sbalneav> in the schema file, the name field is empty
<sbalneav> I'm wondering if that fixes the problem.
<LaserJock> oh, wait
<LaserJock> I did that in my account
<LaserJock> I need to get that into Sabayons
 * nubae waves
<nubae> it seems we've finally got all the kinks out of sugar packages and all activities should work when packaged
<LaserJock> great
<nubae> I believe there were the same issues with some of the ubuntu packages that there were with openSUSE... missing items in MANIFEST, etc
<nubae> anyway, it means we should discuss whether or not to use oBS to build the src debs and debs
<nubae> I mean it can start off as an external repo I suppose
<nubae> and if its verified the process is ok, u can include the packages in edubuntu
<nubae> but I need to know if that is going to be looked at or not.... for the motivation to make the ubuntu packages
<nubae> one interesting thing is since the new sugar will use metacity, individual apps will be able to be launched from gnome
<nubae> that might make it more interesting for collaboration, etc
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> nubae: what's the situation with abiword, do you know?
<pygi> nubae: the problem is ...
<sbalneav> LaserJock: Probably the BEST way to fix it would be to fill in the value in /etc/gconf/schemas/panel-default-setup.entries
<sbalneav> /etc/gconf/schemas/panel-default-setup.entries
<sbalneav> [C[D
<sbalneav> /etc/gconf/schemas/panel-default-setup.entries
<sbalneav> argh
<pygi> we first need to agree on the things that are not technical in nature
<pygi> and one of the steps to come there is tomorrow session
<pygi> and I don't think we'll outsource building to anything other then the canonical infrastructure
<nubae> pygi, oBS uses canonical's infra to build
<nubae> I see no reason to reinvent the wheel though, but oBS is gpl, and can happily exist within an ubuntufied framework
<pygi> I am sure it is gpl (and I even worked on it, I have commit access to oBS repo), but why change what isn't broken?
<nubae> LaserJock: we have had no issues with abiword (from the openSUSE side), I dont know what the debian situation is
<nubae> simplify, not reinvent
<nubae> thats why
<LaserJock> well, we don't need to get into that bit
<nubae> if its there for that taking, why would someone else go and start packaging everything again?
<LaserJock> if we can get source packages we can work it all out
<nubae> who?
<nubae> from what I can see thats not going to happen any time soon
<nubae> so if u want sugar packages, someone is gonna have to package them
<LaserJock> I'm saying that it's not a big deal whether work is done in oBS or LP
<LaserJock> all we need is a source package to get it into Ubuntu/Edubuntu
<nubae> and as I have done the whole process for openSUSE I dont really feel the need to redo the whole thing in the debian way just to please the politics of the issue
<LaserJock> it's not political
<LaserJock> it's "get it into the Ubuntu archives"
<nubae> ok cool, then there is no problem... oBS creates source and binariers
<nubae> cool, then we are on the same track
<nubae> I'm sure u can understand that after doing stuff this way, and seeing it work beautfully, I am not about to go and manually do it all again
<LaserJock> nubae: is there anything left of the Ubuntu Sugar team do  you know?
<LaserJock> well no, I don't expect you to manually do it all again
<nubae> well lfaraone... but as I understand it, he is waiting to see what will happen with debian
<LaserJock> but bottom line is we need to be able to get stuff in the Ubuntu archives
<LaserJock> exactly *how* that happens I don't much care at this point
<nubae> and due to us having oBS and threatening to use it (maybe wrong use of words) the debian maintainer has started packaging the latest version of sugar
<nubae> so... it may be that that is enough and we can use debian packages for karmic
<nubae> but in the mean time, for people who want to run sugar, it might be nice to have the packages available
<nubae> run 0.84 that is
<nubae> in August 0.86 is launched
<nubae> which includes the move to metacity
<nubae> so that will be the important one
<nubae> right now debian/ubuntu is stuck at 0.82 though, which is unusably bad
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> so we need to get that fixes as soon as we can
<nubae> thats the reason for my suggestion
<nubae> then there are the --extra packages
<nubae> did u ever get a change to look at my email listing suggestions?
<LaserJock> I did briefly
<LaserJock> it's a good list
<nubae> we can also have a look at what opensuse-edu carries, as I am sure there must be feedback about which apps were usable/used
<nubae> I tested all the ones I put in the mail
<nubae> so I know they at least work
<LaserJock> sbalneav: I need a paste of what you have for /root/sabayon-debug-log.conf
<nubae> though greater testing would be great, but maybe after having a metapackage
<nubae> its an activity some of the new people could get involved with
<nubae> so if we either list it on the mailing list, or put it on the wiki, we can get some more feedback
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> it would be great to have a rating system
<nubae> yup, well could u put up the steps and then we can get people working
<nubae> there's been far too much planning, we need action now :D
<nubae> people have spoken, lets see if they do stuff now.. this can at least be a test
<nubae> if u put up the list and the steps, I'll format it nicely like its formated on the edubuntu side with icons and the like, and then we can get people to test/feedback, vote, and get something ready for karmic
<nubae> what do u think?
<nubae> LaserJock: ?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> sounds like an idea
<nubae> we need some way to evaluate if people are gonna act or not
<LaserJock> perhaps a probationary period
<LaserJock> like "go ahead and try to get X going, but if after 1 month nothing shows up we're killing it" :-)
<nubae> yuuup
<LaserJock> that's where a weekly or bi-weekly status meeting should happen
<LaserJock> so projects are evaluated frequently and people don't get bogged down in a dead end
<LaserJock> or they can get needed help
<Vantrax> mornin all
<LaserJock> hello
<nubae> spekaing of which Vantrax wanted to help out some way
<bencrisford1> Vantrax is on the learning board
<bencrisford1> I had a chat with him about the collabortation oppurtunities mentioned in the meeting
<bencrisford1> :)
<Vantrax> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Vantrax might be easier
<Vantrax> LaserJock I hear your putting edubuntu together more or less solo at the moment
<LaserJock> something like that
<Vantrax> I know a ubuntu dev with some new found time on his hands that ill have a chat to today, see if he can pitch in
<LaserJock> who's that?
<Vantrax> paultag
<LaserJock> ok, don't know him, but by his LP page he looks to be a pretty busy guy :-)
<Vantrax> yeah:P
<Vantrax> good value
<Vantrax> also from chatting with bencrisford1 yesterday im going to be adding in some training topics into the learning project taht should help edubuntu out, things like ltsp, network homes, reimaging etc that should clear up a few points of confusion
<Vantrax> ive seen some evidence that they have been problems for staff trying to use edubuntu
<LaserJock> where would those training topics land?
<Vantrax> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/SystemAdminTopics
<LaserJock> ok, nifty
<Vantrax> at this stage there is room for movement, we have Canonical approval, but were waiting for the CC meeting next week to actually start the implementation process
<Vantrax> so if you have topics you would like covered let me know
<LaserJock> this is the moodle instance that will be on learning.ubuntu.com?
<Vantrax> yes
<LaserJock> ultimately if Edubuntu takes of again I imagine we'll want to use it fairly extensively
<Vantrax> btw we chose learning because education seemed to be locked up by edubuntu:P
<LaserJock> yes, it's a difficult rope to walk
<Vantrax> and canonical has training:P
<LaserJock> education *using* Ubuntu vs education *about* Ubuntu
<Vantrax> yeah
<Ahmuck_> stgraber: sayabon works?
<Vantrax> so we went with learning, made it clearly different, if not quite gramatically sound
<Vantrax> btw LaserJock your noted down as the contact point for edubuntu
<LaserJock> yeah, I guess so
<LaserJock> I'm really trying to get away
<Vantrax> from edubuntu, or from people talking to you:P
<stgraber> I'm back
<Vantrax> feel free to nominate someone else if you want LaserJock, your just the key person at this point in time
<Vantrax> Ill be floating around in here anyway should you need something, wish I had the dev skills to help you more.
<LaserJock> Vantrax: I'm currently finishing off my PhD dissertation and trying to get ready to move cross-country for a new job
<Vantrax> PhD in what?
<LaserJock> Vantrax: so hopefully somebody will take over, but for the interm it's fine
<LaserJock> Chemistry
<Vantrax> <- works at a university
<LaserJock> I'm a .... laser jock ;-)
 * highvoltage !
<highvoltage> hi pygi
<highvoltage> LaserJock: shall we do another EC this week for the people awaiting membership application?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> announce on -devel that anybody wanting to apply for membership needs to show up
<highvoltage> any particular date/time that suits you?
<highvoltage> ok
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> when's a good time for you?
<LaserJock> your the one at UDS
<bencrisford1> LaserJock: If you want me to, I can help out with the edubuntu learning project thingy in anyway i can, like I say I have tons of time on my hands these days
<highvoltage> 20:00 UTC Wednesday?
<highvoltage> bencrisford1: awesome
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: yeah, go for it!
<bencrisford1> go for it?
<bencrisford1> i dunno what im doing yet :P
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: well then that's task #1 :-)
<LaserJock> highvoltage: should be an OK time
<bencrisford1> LaserJock: Want me to act as a kind of liason between the learning thingy and the edubuntu team?
<stgraber> LaserJock: did you make edubuntu-council the owner of edubuntu-members ?
<LaserJock> stgraber: no, the CC must do that
<stgraber> LaserJock: oh, the CC owns edubuntu-members ?
<LaserJock> we need to make CC owners of edubuntu-council I think, and then make EC an admin of edubuntu-members
<LaserJock> and owner of all the rest of the teams
<LaserJock> yes, CC own edubuntu-members, that at least has a team as owner
<bencrisford1> LaserJock: So what you want me to do about this whole edubuntu learning thingy?
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: right, well. First of all you can liaison between the two groups
<LaserJock> if there's something relevant going on in the Learning project let us know
<bencrisford1> Ok sounds good
<LaserJock> and you can make sure that the Edubuntu-related training topics get set up
<LaserJock> and lastly you can get people involved with writing the content
<bencrisford1> sounds like a plan :)
<bencrisford1> LaserJock: If you want i'll act as 'Contact Person', of course thats your role if you want it :), but the offers there :)
<LaserJock> well, let's see how it goes first, how about that?
<LaserJock> we'll get you on your way and once you got things rolling I'll be more than glad to hand the 'Contact Person' duties off to you
<bencrisford1> ok sure
<bencrisford1> Why don't we organise a meeting for the edubuntu team and the learning team so the people here can voice their ideas and stuff, and the experienced 'learning teamers' can give us advice and suggestions?
<LaserJock> perhaps
<LaserJock> we might want to give the learning team some time to get everything set up
<bencrisford1> yeah, and weve got alot of meetings going on at the moment
<bencrisford1> im certainly having trouble keeping track
<LaserJock> :-)
<bencrisford2> How long do membership meetings take?
<bencrisford2> for ubuntu
<bencrisford2> not edubuntu, sorry for off-topic
<stgraber> depends
<stgraber> we usually aren't available for more than an hour, so we take as many members as possible in an hour
<Vantrax|Work> boo:P
<Vantrax|Work> anyone looked at http://www.likewise.com/products/likewise_open/? Might be something to look at documenting to help with authentication issues
<highvoltage> ok so pygi is rewriting the strategy dock on gobby as PeopleEdubuntu, just in case any one cares
#edubuntu 2009-05-26
<sbalneav> Evening all
<sbalneav> Evening LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi
<sbalneav> So, interesting.
<sbalneav> At work, I have an older laptop I was using, that I built from a UNR image.
<sbalneav> I build the sabayon package there, and it launches, and I can edit the desktop fine.
<sbalneav> So, I've just installed a jaunty box here
<sbalneav> All up-to-date
<sbalneav> Installed my package there, and like yours, it cr*ps out.
<LaserJock> ...ok
<sbalneav> Only difference is, one's using the unr desktop, the other, the regular gnome desktop
<sbalneav> the unr desktop only has 1 panel.
<LaserJock> right
<sbalneav> So here's my theory.
<sbalneav> A "stock" ubuntu panel config's missing something.
<LaserJock> I tried adding in a name key in /etc/gconf/schemas/somethingoranother
<sbalneav> No change?
<sbalneav> I'm going to have to look through that panel delegate code again.
<sbalneav> See what exactly it's looking for,
<LaserJock> it didn't seem to make a difference
<sbalneav> off for a bit to watch the latest episode of "Canada's worst handyman", back in a bit.
<sbalneav> Back
<sbalneav> Hmmm
<sbalneav> think I may be on to something...
<sbalneav> Gonna try to get another build up in a few minutes
<LaserJock> sbalneav: oh?
<nubae1> sbalneav: have u considered trying to build sabayon on oBS? it allows multiple architectures and distributions
<nubae1> can be quite helpful for debugging too... one can use the oBS servers to let stuff build in the bacground, or build locally using the build command... I find it to be really helpful in terms of not having to worry about the majority of the automated stuff
<nubae1> I suppose u get a bigger testing base too, since u can output to rpm, deb, for any distro and architecture
<sbalneav> I have no idea what oBS
<sbalneav> is
<LaserJock> Nubae: the changes are Ubuntu-specific though so I'm not sure he'd gain much
<Nubae> you can then still always use local debian/ubuntu tools, I just think it makes it easier during testing faze
<Nubae> oh I see.... u dont think it will be valuable for other distros?
<LaserJock> Nubae: most likely not
<LaserJock> it's possible though I suppose
<LaserJock> but the patches are likely to go to the mailing list so the Fedora/openSUSE experts can have a look
<LaserJock> not sure what Gentoo's status is
<Nubae> oBS = opensuse BUILD SERVICE, though its distro agnostic and is a gpl tool, its kinda what BDOFL dreamed of when he created launchpad
<LaserJock> well, one aspect of Launchpad anyway
<Nubae> well, then even if just for that, if u can make the src deb available would be great
<sbalneav> I have more than enough on my plate without having to learn yet more tools, thanks.  I don't know the ones I have to use now.
<Nubae> right, one aspect of launchpad, automation... I mean a lot of this stuff really shouldnt take as much time as it does
<sbalneav> the source deb's in my ppa
<Nubae> devs should be able to concentrate on their work and not let packaging be the most complicated part of the entire distibution process
<Nubae> www.launchpad.com/~sbalneav?
<LaserJock> ideally it's not
<LaserJock> I don't think sbalneav is having really any problems with the packaging
<LaserJock> it's the stupid bugs
<Nubae> ahhh... time to pull out ye olde insecticide
<LaserJock> but they seem to be tricky bugs
<LaserJock> that depend on your gnome setup
<Nubae> well, I can take a look see if we cant get some testing done on other distros
<LaserJock> I think Fedora and openSUSE are mostly OK
<Nubae> openSUSE doesnt really need it, but for testing bugs might appear of a particular variety
<LaserJock> have you tried sabayon on openSUSE?
<Nubae> actually no
<LaserJock> the current main dev works for Novell so I'd think it'd be in fairly good shape
<LaserJock> and Red Hat created it so generally they do OK as well
<Nubae> not really any need... but I shall... the thing is openSUSE is very LDAP centric when it comes to groups/theming/samba
<LaserJock> it's the rest of us that seem to have problems
<Nubae> aha
<LaserJock> they made assumptions about gnome that only seem to hold for Fedora/openSUSE
<Nubae> lemme check it out then, first from opensuse packages then from sbalneav package
<Nubae> heh, sunds like typical openSUSE policy... forget about other distros and do what they consider works in the moment.... no standards, no policies
<Nubae> that kinda irritates me sometimes, but the thing is ends up just working...
<Nubae> very strange that way, u'd think since they break so many conventions that things wouldn't fit together, but they do somehow
<LaserJock> yeah, I've noticed that
<sbalneav> You guys seeing a 0ubuntu4 build in my ppa?
<sbalneav> Ah, there it is.
<sbalneav> LaserJock: When it finishes building, have a look at sabayon-2.25.0-0ubuntu4
<sbalneav> I cherry picked a fedora patch and modified it slightly
<LaserJock> sbalneav: ok
<LaserJock> which one?
<sbalneav> https://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewvc/rpms/sabayon/F-11/?sortby=rev
<sbalneav> the gconf-crashes patch
<Nubae> we have sabayon, sabayon-lang and sabayon admin packages in openSUSE
<LaserJock> sbalneav: fascinating
<sbalneav> yeah, what I really want to do is find out why that object doesn't seem to be defined.
<sbalneav> there
<sbalneav> 's a couple other patches that might be handy there
<sbalneav> I'd like to find the *real* problem, and then get the patches pushed upstream, but that's for later.
<sbalneav> right now, lets see if we can get it to work,
<sbalneav> LaserJock: ok, ppa's finished doing it's thing
<sbalneav> give it a go.
<sbalneav> brings up the xnest window on mine.
<LaserJock> still pending publishing, I'll give it a minute or two
<Nubae> ok so its starts in opensuse
<LaserJock> and if you edit a profile?
<Nubae> but setting up new profile and hitting edit kills it
<Nubae> MainThread 2009/05/26 06:55:12.8495 (admin-tool): Got fatal error: sabayon-session exited with a FATAL ERROR (exit code 1)
<Nubae> MainThread 2009/05/26 06:55:12.8684 (USER): Finishing editing profile
<Nubae> MainThread 2009/05/26 06:55:12.8689 (admin-tool): Terminating main loop
<Nubae> MainThread 2009/05/26 06:55:12.8690 (admin-tool): Exiting abnormally; dumping log due to a fatal error
<Nubae> I've got the full traceback if u are interested sbalneav
<LaserJock> ok, did it die immediately
<sbalneav> That on ubuntu?
<Nubae> but might be more interesting if I run your version of course
<Nubae> on openSUSE... yeah died right after I hit the edit profile button
<sbalneav> yeah, well I think I just *fixed* that bug.  My version has the patch for that.
<Nubae> ok, I'll try building yours and see if it works better, it could shed light on other items
<sbalneav> LaserJock: Mine work for you?
<LaserJock> no .debs published yet
 * LaserJock kicks LP
<sbalneav> sabayon-apply's still cacking out, I'll get to that next
<sbalneav> ah, yeah, they built, but not published.
<sbalneav> I got mine here locally from my pbuilder
<LaserJock> sbalneav: \o/ !
<sbalneav> Ah
<sbalneav> Upstream's patched this already
<sbalneav> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=542604
<ubottu> Gnome bug 542604 in general "Recoverable errors on exit. No profile changes saved." [Critical,Unconfirmed]
<sbalneav> ok
<sbalneav> So rather than this patch, we'll need the other one.
<sbalneav> meh
<sbalneav> enough for tonight.
<sbalneav> and I still have to figure out why sabayon-apply's borked.
<sbalneav> deal with that tomorrow.
<sbalneav> I'mma gonna head to bed.
<sbalneav> night all
<LaserJock> sbalneav: night, good work
<Nubae> LaserJock: when is meeting today?
<LaserJock> 20:00 UTC
<Nubae> ok thanks
<LaserJock> Nubae: are you gonna make it?
<Nubae> yah
<LaserJock> great
<asanchez> Good morning everybody
<bencrisford2> highvoltage: When is the edubuntu strat document session at the UDS?
<bencrisford2> and what room, ill get a live stream
<stgraber> right now
<stgraber> room 13
<bencrisford1> highvoltage, stgraber: What time and what room is the edubuntu session stuff going on?
<stgraber> bencrisford1: it just finished
<bencrisford1> sh*t!
<bencrisford1> my internet connection been dodgy all day
<bencrisford1> :(
<bencrisford1> stgraber: Any other sessions worth watching?
<bencrisford1> watching/gobbying
<stgraber> highvoltage: ping
<bencrisford1> stgraber: "Edubuntu Developers are Edubuntu Members who want to work on packaging and have shown that they're unlinely to do damage to any of the Edubuntu packages."  -- does that mean non-members cant package :O?
<highvoltage> stgraber: pong
<pygi> hi
<bencrisford1> Ello :)
<bencrisford1> Did you run the session on burning earlier pygi?
<pygi> yup
<bencrisford1> Ah yes, I tuned in for a bit of it :)
 * pygi wonders what would that mean :p
<bencrisford1> I listened the the live stream
<pygi> there was a live stream lol?!
<bencrisford1> lol
<pygi> greetings ogra german :p
<bencrisford1> millions of people
<bencrisford1> millions listening to pygi talking about burning discs
<pygi> bencrisford1: stop joking with me :p
<bencrisford1> I would give you an oscar, for best documentary
<pygi> there were exactly three persons in the room xD
<bencrisford1> lol :P
<bencrisford1> and millions listening
<pygi> noes!
<pygi> lies
<bencrisford1> lo;l
<pygi> edubuntu session was pretty cool
<pygi> I am glad I was there
<bencrisford1> If im honest I didnt intend to listen to you, but it was an accident
<bencrisford1> I thought the edubuntu was an hour later than it was
<bencrisford1> and i didnt realise until you started talking about brasero :P
<pygi> lol, so it was seriously streamed? :D
<bencrisford1> yeah
<bencrisford1> all the rooms are being streamed all day i think
<bencrisford1> even when theres nothing there
<pygi> argh xD
<bencrisford1> i could hear the cleaners and what have you argueing after a session finished
<pygi> I didn't knew that :D
<pygi> hi asanchez
<asanchez> hi pygi
<pygi> bencrisford1: hehe :D
<pygi> bencrisford1: so did you learn something at least? ;-P
<bencrisford1> :/ that i missed the edubuntu session
<pygi> bencrisford1: except that :p
<pygi> something about burning?
<pygi> bencrisford1: btw. don't worry, I'll post the notes to the mailing list tomorrow
<bencrisford1> if im honest - not really, i only went on there for a minute or two im busy doing a 4 page essay on the british empire
<pygi> :P
<bencrisford1> did you mention my openweek idea btw?
<bencrisford1> for developers
<pygi> no, not yet :-/ We didn't had time to focus on getting developers, but I think we'll schedule another session this week
<bencrisford1> ok, cool :)
 * bencrisford1 wishes he was in barcelona, not writing a history essay
<pygi> asanchez: you somewhere near the bazaar room?
<pygi> bencrisford1: tell him not to ignore me :p
<asanchez> pygi, sorry, we're at Internal Package Repository Management (room 2)
<pygi> asanchez: I'm joking :) O, I hope its interesting :)
<asanchez> mm, nothing new
<bencrisford1> can anyone turn up to the UDS?
 * bencrisford1 might jump on a plane :P (joke)
<asanchez> where are you from bencrisford1 ?
<bencrisford1> UK
<asanchez> this is so near
<asanchez> there are very cheap flights between UK and Spain
<bencrisford1> yep
<bencrisford1> but as im not actually a dev it would be a bit pointless
<bencrisford1> if the UDS comes to the UK ill be there :)
<asanchez> im not a developer too
<bencrisford1> oh :/
<bencrisford1> is the UDS coming to the uk any time soon?
<asanchez> I don't know, i think many people from Canonical works in UK
<bencrisford1> yeah including sabdfl himself :)
<bencrisford1> id love to work for canonical :P
<sbalneav> Morning all
<bencrisford1> hi :)
<pygi> hi sbalneav
<bencrisford1> asanchez: apparently the first UDS was UK, and the canonical team sprint is scotland
<bencrisford1> so might not be in UK for a while
<bencrisford1> but if it is
<bencrisford1> you'll see me there hopefully
<bencrisford1> UDS Hardy was 2006 right?
<asanchez> UDS Hardy was 11/06 i think
<bencrisford1> ah pl
<bencrisford1> ok
<highvoltage> hey bencrisford1
<bencrisford1> hey
<bencrisford1> cant stop just going out
<bencrisford1> back in 10 minutes or so :)
<sbalneav> What's the general feeling here?  Should we patch up sabayon to use Xephyr, like Fedora? Or should we just stick with Xnest?  The only thing I can see that it would give us is composite support, but I'm not sure if that's particularily necessary for a window-in-window X desktop.
<sbalneav> OTOH, xnest is directly supported by Xorg, which, one assumes, should be the most compatible with the host Xorg system
<sbalneav> Personally, I'm inclined to stick with Xnest, but I'm open to suggestions.
<sbalneav> ...
 * sbalneav listens to crickets
<nubae> go for it
<nubae> :-)
<pygi> sbalneav: ++ on xnest
<stgraber> sbalneav: +1 (xnest)
<sbalneav> pygi, stgraber yeah, thanks, that was my thought.  One less extra dependency too.
<sbalneav> ok, working on a different patch.
<sbalneav> should have a new build up in 20 minutes or so.
<sbalneav> Looks like we also have to add .gvfs to the list of directories to ignore.
<sbalneav> Patching that
<sbalneav> getting cloooooser...
<sbalneav> Ok, for anyone interested, sabayon 2.25.0-0ubuntu6 is being pushed to my ppa now
<sbalneav> sabayon-apply (actually applying the profile) is still borken, but I can confirm that the profile's actually saving.
<sbalneav> If anyone's interested, give it a test when it appears in my ppa
<LaserJock> wahoo
<LaserJock> sbalneav: so was there any upstream Fedora/openSUSE patches for sabayon-apply?
<nubae> we're applying some patches in openSUSE... I'll let u know how it goes
<Lns> sbalneav: that's awesome!!!
<LaserJock> highvoltage: ping
<stgraber> highvoltage: ping too
<nubae> ping three
<nubae> :d
<nubae> so meeting in 20 mins right?
<bencrisford1> crap?  really? :P
<bencrisford1> LaserJock: want me to take minutes?
<LaserJock> stgraber: so, uh, what did you do to my strategy doc?
<LaserJock> no more areas of focus?
<stgraber> we made it a bit shorter :) mainly by merging that into the objectives
<stgraber> we're trying to be less specific so we don't have to update it over and over
<LaserJock> hmm, I think we'll need to discuss this some
<LaserJock> for me personally it's now so vague and short that it's lost a lot of power to direct
<stgraber> sure, just waiting for highvoltage to join me downstairs
<highvoltage> LaserJock: ping
<highvoltage> I mean
<highvoltage> LaserJock: pong
<highvoltage> stgraber: pong too
<LaserJock> hi
<highvoltage> LaserJock: yes it needs some more discussion indeed, it's not finalised in any way
<LaserJock> good ;-)
<LaserJock> so are we supposed to have our EC meeting now?
 * Lns has to go in about 5 min :(
<bencrisford1> we better be quick then :P
<LaserJock> stgraber, highvoltage: we're starting please
<bencrisford1> we better check nubae is here
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: you're doing minutes?
<bencrisford1> sure if you want me to
<bencrisford1> but if my internet goes
<bencrisford1> someone else might need to
<LaserJock> k
<LaserJock> this is the part of UDS I hate
<LaserJock> everybody is hard to get ahold of
<nubae> I am here
<highvoltage> LaserJock: the areas and focus in addition to the other sections was a bit much
<LaserJock> stgraber: here?
<stgraber> LaserJock: yeah, next to highvoltage :)
<highvoltage> LaserJock: ok I was just gone for a minute had to talk to someone but I'm here now
<LaserJock> === Start Edubuntu Council Meeting ===
<LaserJock> ok, who all is here today to apply for Edubuntu Membership?
<highvoltage> so this is another impromptu EC meeting right?
<LaserJock> highvoltage: I thought this was the scheduled one
<nubae> I suppose its me and Lns
<highvoltage> "or if you have applied before, please join us on
<highvoltage> #ubuntu-meeting on the freenode network on Wednesday 27 May 2009 at
<highvoltage> 20:00 UTC."
<highvoltage> (e-mail sent to edubuntu-devel"
<LaserJock> soooo, that's tomorrow?
<highvoltage> yeah
<stgraber> LaserJock: you got us a bit confused :)
 * LaserJock has lost track of all sense of time in pursuit of a PhD ;-)
<nubae> oh ok then :-=
<LaserJock> nubae: can you make it tomorrow?
<nubae> yeah
<stgraber> that's tomorrow and a bit later (3 hours) so we can grab some food before then
<LaserJock> we can do it now if you can't
<highvoltage> hold on
<bencrisford1> LaserJock: So we're not doing it now?
<highvoltage> you already started it!
<nubae> heh
<bencrisford1> highvoltage: no he didnt
<bencrisford1> you didnt do the bong
<highvoltage> I guess we can wait until tomorrow
<highvoltage> no problem
<LaserJock> highvoltage: well, the 2 people we're expecting are here
<LaserJock> *but* there could be more at the *right* time
<highvoltage> I just had to snap into ec mode real quickly and out :)
<LaserJock> Lns might already be gone
 * nubae is usually around aynways, so no matter
<Lns> I'm here, but leaving in ~30sec.
 * bencrisford1 just made the minutes look pretty :(
<LaserJock> screw it, let's do this
<highvoltage> LaserJock: back to the strategy dock, I think we need to keep it really quick and snappy and get the message accross
<LaserJock> argg
<highvoltage> LaserJock: most of what's taken out was repeated and it's still there
<LaserJock> Lns: can you make the meeting tomorrow?
 * bencrisford1 prefers highvoltage in EC mode
 * bencrisford1 fumbles for the switch
<Lns> LaserJock: yep, what time?
<LaserJock> 1pm our time
<highvoltage> *FWOOP*
<bencrisford1> CRAP!  Its 26th may!!!  my membership meeting is next week :'(
<Lns> LaserJock: ahh...what's our time? =p
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: Ubuntu Membership?
<bencrisford1> yeah
<LaserJock> Lns: Pacific
<Lns> LaserJock: oh yeah i forgot you live so close to me! ;)
<Lns> *beers LaserJock*
<LaserJock> ;-)
<stgraber> bencrisford1: oh really, so I'll see you there ;)
<bencrisford1> oh ?
<stgraber> I'm an EMEA council member
<LaserJock> ok, so EC meeting is voided because of LaserJock's stupidity
<bencrisford1> ooh, do you take bribes?
 * Lns sunbirds tomorrow @1pm pst
<Lns> cheers all
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: btw, if a person is already an Ubuntu Member then Edubuntu Membership is easily obtained ;-)
<highvoltage> ciao Lns
<LaserJock> Lns: cya
<LaserJock> ok, ok, back to Strategy Doc
<LaserJock> here's my reasoning
<LaserJock> I wanted do the following:
<LaserJock> 1) introduce what Edubuntu is
<LaserJock> 2) outline what our objectives and goals are
<LaserJock> 3) have specific strategies for how to achieve those objectives/goals
<LaserJock> 4) outline what the community looks like
<LaserJock> 5) outline our development policies and methods
<bencrisford1> stgraber: Do you take bribes?
<stgraber> bencrisford1: nah :)
<LaserJock> I want to have something that when people come to our community they can read it and get a good grasp on what we do
<bencrisford1> :(
 * bencrisford1 didnt just ask you that btw...
<stgraber> and that chan isn't logged on a public web server btw ... :)
 * bencrisford1 smashes server with hammer
<LaserJock> and something that when we're thinking of initiating a new program/ including new apps, etc. that we can turn to it for guidance
<bencrisford1> no it isnt stagraber :)
<bencrisford1> stgraber*
<stgraber> hey ubuntulog
<bencrisford1> lol, just to make sure - i was joking when i asked if you took bribes btw..
<LaserJock> highvoltage: so to me the current doc seems a bit to vague for giving a lot of guidance, what do you think?
<stgraber> LaserJock: right but it was a bit too specific as it was including things like the whole metapackages list, and some technical details that may not be of general interest like the seeds and similar stuff
<highvoltage> LaserJock: that looks like a good layout
<LaserJock> stgraber: well, people don't have to read the whole thing
<LaserJock> the problem is that *nothing* is codified right now
<LaserJock> nobody knows how Edubuntu is developed or what it really is
<highvoltage> LaserJock: are you going to be here a while still? I mean, for several hours? after today I need an hour or two away from my computer
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> I'll be here
<highvoltage> (so would be nice if we can follow-up after dinner)
<highvoltage> awesome
<LaserJock> I like how you put the upstream relationships in objectives
<LaserJock> I would call it "Strong Upstream Relationships"
<LaserJock> to fit in grammatically with the other items
<sbalneav> Back
<LaserJock> sbalneav: so, right now we can make and edit profiles but the fail to get applied, right?
<sbalneav> I'm fixing that.  And the gconf dir wasn't getting saved
<sbalneav> I've just come up with a couple more patches
<sbalneav> One that I cribbed and modified from upstream (had to add in not to save the .gvfs and .pulse dirs) and one that I fixed in the sabayon apply
<sbalneav> 0ubuntu7 should post in a couple minutes here, if my pbuilder reports a success :)
<LaserJock> sbalneav: should the patches apply cleanly to 2.22.1?
<sbalneav> Don't know.  Once I get 2.25 working, I'll look at a backport.
<sbalneav> I can't see why not.
<sbalneav> There's really not much that's changed
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I guess that's one nice thing about a dead upstream ;-)
<LaserJock> I'd like to SRU Hardy and Intrepid
<sbalneav> Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner
<sbalneav> Created profile
<sbalneav> Added stickey notes to top panel
<sbalneav> saved profile
<sbalneav> said that profile should apply to me
<sbalneav> logged out
<sbalneav> logged in
<sbalneav> sticky notes on top panel appeared as if by freaking magic.
<LaserJock> wahoo
<sbalneav> sabayon-2.25.0-0ubuntu7 in my ppa
<sbalneav> it's saving dbus information, which it shouldn't, so I'll exclude that as well, but interested sabayon people can play with what's there.
<sbalneav> LaserJock: Was it just sabayon that wasn't working, or did pessulus have bugs as well?
<LaserJock> I *think* it was just sabayon
<LaserJock> pessulus just munges gconf keys
<sbalneav> Another thing that I'll work on adding to sabayon: you can only apply profiles by *users*, really you'd realisticyally want to apply profiles by *group*
<sbalneav> i.e. everyone in the "grade8" group gets this profile, everyone in "grade9" gets *this* one, etc.
<sbalneav> Once I get something like that going, we'll send patches upstream.
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> once we get things actually working we can look at enhancements
<LaserJock> btw, the Ubuntu Desktop team is wanting to get rid of gnome-system-tools
<LaserJock> the only thing that we don't have a ready replacement for is useradmin
<sbalneav> Saw that, but what will they replace with?  Write something on their own?
<LaserJock> well, they said they didn't have resources to write their own
<LaserJock> and Fedora's is pretty Fedora-specific
<LaserJock> so they're going to basically remove everything but useradmin from gnome-system-tools
<LaserJock> and patch it to kinda work
<LaserJock> and wait until fedora's stuff works out
<sbalneav> Well, all that's really needed is just to rewrite the backend to be pam/ldap compliant
<sbalneav> with some kind of plugin arch.
<LaserJock> right, and nobody seems to want to do that
<sbalneav> sigh
<sbalneav> there a team for that?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> I mean, it's Desktop Team but they're all packagers
<LaserJock> we're not upstreams
<sbalneav> There going to be a bof on it?
<LaserJock> not sure
<LaserJock> they had one already
<LaserJock> but I'm not sure if they're doing followups
<sbalneav> What if I write one in python, ditch the perl one?
<sbalneav> I'm not sure exactly how the front and back end tie together, some dbus magig that eludes me.
<sbalneav> but I could figure it out.
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> I don't think they'd mind if somebody just rewrote the whole thing in python
<sbalneav> Well, we don't want the whole thing, just the useradmin part, right?
<LaserJock> exactly
<LaserJock> all that is needed is a user and group admin tool
<sbalneav> I have another question.
<LaserJock> the gobby doc is uds-karmic-no-gst
<sbalneav> If we were to create a "edubuntu-ldap-server", which would:
<sbalneav> 1) depend on openldap slapd, and
<sbalneav> 2) provide a pre-configured ldap schema for use with labs
<sbalneav> how would we:
<sbalneav> a) Override the questions that the slapd package asks
<sbalneav> b) modify the slapd config in /etc without violating debian policy?
<LaserJock> a) I'm not really sure, but I think you can "preseed" those
<LaserJock> b) I'd have to check that one as well but I think something should be possible
<LaserJock> it might require working with the server guys to make a change in the slapd package
<sbalneav> Well, we'll burn that bridge when we come to it.
<sbalneav> ok
<sbalneav> looks like the packages are built in my ppa
<sbalneav> if you'd like to test, give 'em a go.
<LaserJock> Debian Policy says that the "owning" package of the config file should provide a program that can be run to modify the configuration
<LaserJock> so I think that's saying that slapd should have a program that we could call, like update-slapd-config <path to our config file>
<LaserJock> the idea of having an ldap server meta-package sounds really promising though
<sbalneav> well, I'd like to have an edubuntu-ldap-server and edubuntu-ldap-client meta package, with just about everything configured
<sbalneav> i.e., something that figures out your hostname, then creates a bog-standard ou=users,dc=your,dc=domain,dc=name and ou=groups,... hierarchy.
<sbalneav> So, if you had an edubunu box you'd want as your "ldap server", you'd install the edubuntu-ldap-server metapackage, it would set up the hierarchy for you.
<LaserJock> yeah, I think that would totally rock
<sbalneav> installing the edubuntu-ldap-client would then set up the correct auth-client-config profile, and apply it
<sbalneav> then if the "addusers" backend was ldap aware, you'd be in business.
<sbalneav> Another patch coming out in a few mintes
<sbalneav> for the .dbus dir ignore
<sbalneav> LaserJock: still there?
<LaserJock> sure am
<sbalneav> Here's another packaging question
<sbalneav> in the root dir of sabayon, there's a sabayon.schema file
<sbalneav> I want that to go into /usr/share/docs/sabayon/examples
<sbalneav> or the like.
<sbalneav> do I just add a line like:
<sbalneav> sabayon.schema\t\t/usr/share/doc/sabayon/examples
<sbalneav> to the sabayon.install file?
<LaserJock> yeah
<sbalneav> ok
<Ahmuck> what's the current decision on what version of ubuntu is going to be considered the "supported" version of edubuntu?
<sbalneav> Not sure a decision's been made yet.
<sbalneav> My own preference would be to align ourselves with the lts releases.
<sbalneav> work on getting what we need into karmic, and then freezing on that until the next lts
<sbalneav> then staying in sync with the lts releases from there on out.
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: how do you mean "supported"?
<pygi> sbalneav: I think we've established the same principle at today's session
<sbalneav> which, at the uds?
<pygi> sbalneav: yes
<sbalneav> Since I'm not there, i wasn't aware :)
 * bencrisford1 wishes he was there
<bencrisford1> :(
<pygi> sbalneav: read blog post from jonathan
<sbalneav> bencrisford1: yeah, you've said that a few times already.
<bencrisford1> lol
<bencrisford1> pygi: Is it on planet ubuntu
<pygi> bencrisford1: yea, he also took a picture of me!
<pygi> evil
<bencrisford1> :P
<bencrisford1> pygi: the pictures you, huh? :P
<bencrisford1> :)
<pygi> bencrisford1: yes, sadly
<bencrisford1> :P
<bencrisford1> why sadly?
<pygi> because :p
<bencrisford1> lol
<bencrisford1> id be honoured if someone wanted to take a picture of me :P
<sbalneav> Well, I've had enough of job + sabayon hacking for the day.
<Ahmuck> LaserJock: ie, LTS or every current release
<sbalneav> Off for a quick brew.  Might be on later tonight.
<Ahmuck> i ask, because i
<pygi> later sbalneav
<bencrisford1> c ya sbalneav
<Ahmuck> 've put someone on to help build instructions, etc.  i need to know what release to target.  should i drop back to 8.04.1 with ltsp or 8.10 or 9.04 or etc.
<LaserJock> I didn't think highvoltage's post said anything about targeted releases
<pygi> LaserJock: not sure, but I think we've pretty much set on LTSs
<LaserJock> well, but we should be releasing something every 6 months
<pygi> LaserJock: why so?
<LaserJock> because you lose a lot of momentum
<pygi> LaserJock: no you don't, if you distribute the application updates over PPA
<LaserJock> i.e. that's why Ubuntu has 6 month releases instead of Debians 18-24 months
<pygi> and every LTS for us means new features and change sand stuff
<pygi> but we don't have as wide focus as Ubuntu has
<LaserJock> I know, but seriously
<LaserJock> it'd take a whole lot of work to jump
 * bencrisford1 offers a fiver to anyone who gives him a testimonial :P
<bencrisford1> pygi: I've never been at a UDS, how is it that you folks are still on IRC the whole time?
<LaserJock> a lot of people use irssi on an always-up server somewhere
<bencrisford1> irssi?
 * bencrisford1 goes to wikipedia
 * stgraber is back
 * highvoltage too
 * bencrisford1 welcomes stgraber and highvoltage back
<bencrisford1> anyone fancy giving me a testimonial for a fiver?
<bencrisford1> :P
<bencrisford1> brb
<pygi> bencrisford1: why not :)
<pygi> its cool to be on irc
<highvoltage> ok now I'm back again with decent networking
<highvoltage> sbalneav: ooh, nice on !sabyon
<highvoltage> LaserJock: is there anything out there that could be used as a user/group management tool?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: yes, I didn't say anything about LTS / release cycles yet because we probably just need to decide on it formally, perhaps we should do that at tomorrow nights meeting
<LaserJock> highvoltage: user/group management beyond what "Users and Groups" can do?
<LaserJock> some people seem to be using Kusers
<highvoltage> LaserJock: yes. is Kusers a KDE app?
<LaserJock> yep
<highvoltage> LaserJock: is it packaged for ubuntu? I can't find it with apt-cache search. if so, do you have the package name for me?
<LaserJock> well, it's probably in kdebase or something
<LaserJock> it's *the* user management tool for KDE
<bencrisford1> pygi: yeah, it is :), i was just wondering how you guys are
<highvoltage> ok, I'll just install KDE then (what the heck)
<highvoltage> LaserJock: and it does user management drastically better than user-admin?
<LaserJock> people seem to like it a lot more for mass-user management
<LaserJock> but it's KDE so there's that inconsistency
<highvoltage> pity KDE4 still has some major issues with LTSP
<highvoltage> otherise it could be considered as the main education desktop
<highvoltage> LaserJock: are you ok with objectives 1-3 on the strat doc?
<LaserJock> if the end of 2 is fixed
<highvoltage> oosh, where does that come from
<highvoltage> "Integration with alternative desktops such as KDE, Xfce and Lxde will also be considered when implementing new features."
<highvoltage> is that fine?
 * bencrisford123 is loving mibbit
<bencrisford1> :D
<LaserJock> highvoltage: fine
<bencrisford1> You know them mugshots everyone has on launchpad?  How do you make them?
<highvoltage> bencrisford1: gimp
<bencrisford1> is there a special filter?  or just magic wand + dorp shadow
<highvoltage> bencrisford1: they're called hackegotchis, I think there's a hackergotchi howto somewhere on the wiki
<bencrisford1> ok ty
<highvoltage> 19:12 < LaserJock> 1) introduce what Edubuntu is
<highvoltage> """
<highvoltage> Edubuntu's mission is to provide educational software and content packages on top of Ubuntu. It forms part of the larger Ubuntu project and so brings with it Ubuntu's processes, philosophies and commitments. Edubuntu's focus is on integrating educational softwares and content, software development is left to upstream projects.
<highvoltage> """
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> seems a bit package/software heavy
<LaserJock> what about community aspects?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I agree with that introduction. I think it just needs emphasis that Edubuntu is a group of people who do that work, or at least in some way bring lns's words in some big way
<highvoltage> LaserJock: *exactly*
<highvoltage> it nails the technical description of what edubuntu does, but it doesn't really say who we are nicely
<asanchez> Hi all!
<stgraber> hi asanchez
<bencrisford1> hey
<asanchez> are you at the hotel?
<asanchez> hey bencrisford1
<stgraber> yeah, I'm with highvoltage in the lobby
<LaserJock> paultag: want to introduce yourself?
<asanchez> We have wired connection at the room
<asanchez> Im writing uds day2 report
<paultag> Hey Ya'll, I am looking to help with some MOTU stuff, I'm sure I'll be seeing a bit more of all of you :)
<JoshuaRL> nice to meet you paultag :)
<paultag> JoshuaRL, well fancy meeting you here :P
<highvoltage> ok here's a try at an improved introduction:
<highvoltage> """
<highvoltage> Edubuntu is a community of people. Edubuntu is not necessarily a product but a group of people who work together on projects that benefits Ubuntu in education for our users.
<highvoltage> Edubuntu's mission is to provide educational software, tools and content packages on top of Ubuntu. It forms part of the larger Ubuntu project and so brings with it Ubuntu's processes, philosophies and commitments. Edubuntu does not focus on developing software, but rather integrating upstream projects and reaching out to form strong bonds with the upstream projects.
<highvoltage> """
<paultag> highvoltage, :)
<highvoltage> LaserJock / stgraber ^^^ perhaps need some language changes? my engrish sucks.
<highvoltage> but do you agree with the gist of it?
<highvoltage> hi paultag
<LaserJock> gimme a sec
<JoshuaRL> paultag: well, ive been meaning to set up an LTSP box, and when Vantrax|Work mentioned what he did, i was interested
<JoshuaRL> highvoltage: "but rather integrates upstream ... and reaches out to form strong bonds with upstream projects."
 * JoshuaRL is an english nerd
<highvoltage> JoshuaRL: thanks, updated.
<highvoltage> LaserJock: stgraber pointed out that the first paragraph has some redundency in it
<Vantrax|Work> highvoltage i would add 'to improve the usability of Ubuntu for educational environments' to the end
<highvoltage> LaserJock: but that's kind of copied from lns's e-mail, he said it over and over, and it hits hard, it would be nice if the doc could reflect that
<highvoltage> Vantrax|Work: yeah, although that's more of what we do than who we are
<highvoltage> Vantrax|Work: and that fits in better with the objectives
<highvoltage> Vantrax|Work: but I 100% agree that it should be in there
<Vantrax|Work> I might think a reword for something more like Edubuntu is a community of people who work together on projects that benefits Ubuntu in education for our users.
<highvoltage> yeah
<Vantrax|Work> Edubuntu is a community of people who work together on projects that improves the usability of Ubuntu in educational environments for our users.
<pygi> highvoltage: and when I said we are people, you were like: duh!
<pygi> :p
<highvoltage> here's an excerp from Lns's mail:
<highvoltage> """Edubuntu is a community of people.
<highvoltage> Edubuntu is NOT a product. It's not a shiny liveCD, liveDVD, liveUSB, a
<highvoltage> distro, a collection of metapackages, LTSP, documentation, bugfixes to
<highvoltage> educational apps, themes, artwork, or marketing.
<highvoltage> Edubuntu is a community of people.
<highvoltage> What we do (projects) within the community should be encouraged and
<highvoltage> supported, as long as the goals of these individual projects align with
<highvoltage> "Edubuntu" (Ubuntu + Education). Edubuntu can produce many things that
<highvoltage> benefit Ubuntu in Education. In fact, Edubuntu should produce ALL things
<highvoltage> that benefit Ubuntu in Education.
<highvoltage> """
<highvoltage> pygi: I 100% agreed with you
<Vantrax|Work> i think that line summarised that quite well. Edubuntu (Ubuntu + Education) is a community of people who work together on projects that improves the usability of Ubuntu in educational environments for our users.
<highvoltage> pygi: but yes, duh.
<highvoltage> updated introduction:
<highvoltage> """
<highvoltage> Edubuntu is a community of people. Edubuntu is not necessarily a product or a disc or a distribution, but a group of people who work together on projects that benefits Ubuntu in education for our users.
<highvoltage> Edubuntu's mission is to provide educational software, tools and content packages on top of Ubuntu. It forms part of the larger Ubuntu project and so brings with it Ubuntu's processes, philosophies and commitments. Edubuntu does not focus on developing software, but rather integrates upstream projects and reaches out to form strong bonds with its users, upstream projects and other similar projects.
<highvoltage> """
<LaserJock> let's not say what Edubuntu is not
<LaserJock> it should be a positive statement of who and what we are
<LaserJock> that it's a community of people is I think a bit too simplified for what we mean
<JoshuaRL> its a project, not a community
<LaserJock> it's both
 * Lns pokes his head around
<highvoltage> LaserJock: it's something that needs to be said though. any suggestion for improvement?
<LaserJock> yes
<JoshuaRL> a project has community roots and involvement, but is a little different than a community
 * Lns agrees w/Laserjock that any statement should be "positive" (i.e. don't say what we're not)
<highvoltage> """
<highvoltage> Edubuntu is a group of people that are passionate about education and free software. It is a group of people who work together on projects that benefits Ubuntu in education.
<highvoltage> """
<highvoltage> is that better?
<Lns> highvoltage: s/free/open source/ ?
<highvoltage> I guess "open source" is more ubuntu'y
<JoshuaRL> highvoltage: free software.  We work together ... that benefit Ubuntu ..."
<Lns> ....or even gnu/linux'y?
<LaserJock> Edubuntu is a community project whose mission is to bring the philosophy, passions, and promises of the Ubuntu to educational settings.
<highvoltage> I like "free software" more but if anyone feels strong about it I guess we can change it
<LaserJock> s/of the/of/
<JoshuaRL> highvoltage: free software is more inclusive
<LaserJock> free software is also more confusing :-0
<Lns> highvoltage: I dunno. A *lot* of non-OSS people equate "Free Software" with "Freeware" (and thus "crap")
<highvoltage> s/educational settings/educational environments/ ?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I *think* that's our "take home" statement right? We're Ubuntu for Education
<Lns> especially in educational environments where they scour around for cheap software
<highvoltage> Lns: well, educating people who are ignorant is better than ignoring the ignorance
<Lns> highvoltage: I agree 100%...but you can't expect to educate someone with your mission statement alone
<LaserJock> highvoltage: alternatively, educating people without intro statement isn't necessarily a good diea
<LaserJock> s/without/with the/
 * LaserJock can't type
<LaserJock> anybody object to: Edubuntu is a community project whose mission is to bring the philosophy, passions, and promises of Ubuntu to educational environments.
<JoshuaRL> LaserJock: sounds nice
<JoshuaRL> LaserJock: but i shouldnt have a vote :)
<Lns> LaserJock: "Promises" kinda doesn't sit well with me but i love the rest
<LaserJock> Lns: well, Ubuntu has the 4 promises, which Edubuntu has traditionally also promoted
<Lns> ok...point taken from upstream ;)
<highvoltage> I think it's important to say that edubuntu is part of ubuntu.
<highvoltage> """
<highvoltage> Edubuntu is a community project within Ubuntu whose mission is to bring the philosophy, passions, and promises of Ubuntu to educational environments.
<highvoltage> how is that?
<highvoltage> """
<LaserJock> I can go with that I think
<JoshuaRL> highvoltage: i think the "how is that?" is superfluous
<JoshuaRL> :)
<highvoltage> pygi / stgraber / Lns ^^^ ?
<stgraber> highvoltage: +1
<LaserJock> I'd like to avoid "based on" or "derived from", etc. as that is somewhat limiting
<highvoltage> JoshuaRL: yes it is. sue me.
<LaserJock> but "within" is accurate and short ;-)
<Lns> highvoltage: I'm good with that, though the double "Ubuntu" ... i don't want to be nit-picky =)
<Lns> i'm good =)
<highvoltage> Lns: heh
<LaserJock> I'm not sure how to reword to get rid of an Ubuntu
<LaserJock> oh, I know
<Lns> how about...
<LaserJock> Edubuntu is a community project within Ubuntu whose mission is to bring its philosophy, passions, and promises to educational environments.
<Lns> "Edubuntu is a community project within Ubuntu whose mission is to bring its philosophies, passions, and promises to educational environments."
<Lns> ha!
<LaserJock> score!!
 * Lns highfives #edubuntu
<highvoltage> objective 1:
<highvoltage> """
<highvoltage> The first objective of Edubuntu is to bring an education focus to Ubuntu. This means packaging and maintaining learning, teaching, and administration tools targeted at the educational user experience. Edubuntu will strive to make it easy to install and use educational software that applies to all ages, subjects, languages and all ability levels. Edubuntu recognizes that education is not just tools, but also content. It also sees the need
<LaserJock> woah
<LaserJock> we're not done with the intro yet are we?
 * highvoltage rewinds
<LaserJock> that was just the intro sentence
<highvoltage> LaserJock: ok
<LaserJock> now we gotta summarize what that all means
<LaserJock> and basically outline everything to come
<highvoltage> I guess I'm too big a fan of simplicity and keeping things short.
<highvoltage> ok
<LaserJock> short is good, for sure
<LaserJock> and I'm often wordy
<LaserJock> but we need to make sure people can read this and understand
 * LaserJock is in thesis mode so watch out
#edubuntu 2009-05-27
<highvoltage> "This document provides an overview of Edubuntu's objectives, the community and its governance and code of conduct." - something similar to that?
<Lns> LaserJock: let's not make this thesis-like ;)
<LaserJock> highvoltage: yeah
<LaserJock> but first
<LaserJock> oh, and perhaps we should s/promises/commitments/ in the first sentence
<LaserJock> we don't want to overdue it maybe
<highvoltage> ok
<highvoltage> "promise" is actually a positive word if you're not very cynical ;)
<highvoltage> but ok
<LaserJock> yeah, well, there are a lot of cynics out there ;-)
<highvoltage> """
<highvoltage> Edubuntu is a community project within Ubuntu whose mission is to bring the philosophy, passions, and commitments of Ubuntu to educational environments.
<highvoltage> This document outlines the objectives, governance, teams and code of conduct of the Edubuntu project.
<highvoltage> """
<highvoltage> well, s/teams/team structures
<LaserJock> Edubuntu aims to deliver the best that the open software world has to offer by focusing on educational applications, integration of software, usability in the educational setting, and strong relationships with software developers.
<highvoltage> ok we just need to cut the redundency there, we've already mentioned the educational setting
<LaserJock> fine
<LaserJock> put that in between your two sentences and I think we've pretty much got it
<highvoltage> I like it when LaserJock is this agreeable.
<LaserJock> lol
<highvoltage> :p
<LaserJock> I am the official Ubuntu Devil's Advocate you know ;-)
<highvoltage> pasty:
<highvoltage> """
<highvoltage> Edubuntu is a community project within Ubuntu whose mission is to bring the philosophy, passions, and commitments of Ubuntu to educational environments. Edubuntu aims to deliver the best that the open software world has to offer by focusing on educational applications, integration of software, usability, and strong relationships with all role players which include our users, maintainers and upstream projects.
<highvoltage> This document outlines the objectives, governance, team structures and code of conduct of the Edubuntu project.
<highvoltage> """
<LaserJock> awesome
<highvoltage> I think that's quite a bit better than we had a few days ago
<highvoltage> the grammar people can help us a bit later to get it just right, but the message is there.
<highvoltage> shall we move over to objectives?
<LaserJock> yes please
<highvoltage> Objective 1: Education
<highvoltage> The first objective of Edubuntu is to bring an education focus to Ubuntu. This means packaging and maintaining learning, teaching, and administration tools targeted at the educational user experience. Edubuntu will strive to make it easy to install and use educational software that applies to all ages, subjects, languages and all ability levels. Edubuntu recognizes that education is not just tools, but also content. It also sees the need
<highvoltage> (I'm not sure if IRC truncated that, it should end in "instruction")
<highvoltage> "user experience" sounds so weasily to me.
<LaserJock> we ended at "It also sees the need"
<highvoltage> It also sees the need to enable learning and quality instruction.
<LaserJock> highvoltage: got something better for "user experience"?
<highvoltage> """
<highvoltage> The first objective of Edubuntu is to bring an education focus to Ubuntu. This means packaging and maintaining learning, teaching, content and administration tools targeted at the educational user. Edubuntu will strive to make it easy to install and use educational software. It aims to be inclusive of all ages, subjects, languages and ability levels.
<highvoltage> """
<highvoltage> I simplified it a bit. too much so or not?
<LaserJock> well, it says it all I think
<LaserJock> I think maybe what we need to do is make these objectives bullet points rather than whole sections
<highvoltage> lol. "wow, this one was quite fast" -stgraber
<LaserJock> you're killing the wondering section flow :-)
<highvoltage> ok
<LaserJock> so we could do:
<LaserJock> 1. ''Education'' - The first objective of Edubuntu is to bring an education focus to Ubuntu. This means packaging and maintaining learning, teaching, content and administration tools targeted at the educational user. Edubuntu will strive to make it easy to install and use educational software. It aims to be inclusive of all ages, subjects, languages and ability levels.
<highvoltage> """
<highvoltage>  * Bring an education focus to Ubuntu.
<highvoltage>  * Packaging and maintaining learning, teaching, content and administration tools relevant to education
<highvoltage>  * Strive to make it easy to install and use educational software.
<highvoltage>  * Be inclusive of all ages, subjects, languages and ability levels.
<highvoltage> """
<highvoltage> oh I thought you meant bullet points like above
 * Lns likes the bullets much better
<LaserJock> nah, I think with how you're shortening things
<highvoltage> (see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/StrategyDocument for what it looks like right now)
<LaserJock> we can just do the whole objectives section as a list
<Vantrax|Work> its looking good
<highvoltage> any comments on objective 1 atm?
<LaserJock> I like what I pasted last :-)
<highvoltage> it's not really bulleted though
<highvoltage> hmm, maybe combine the concepts... let me try something
<highvoltage> I think the words "objective 1" "objective 2", etc should be removed. it kind of implies that one objective is more important than the other
<LaserJock> that's why I had:
<LaserJock> 1. ''Education''
<LaserJock> or we could do:
<highvoltage> I thought so, I liked that
<LaserJock>  * ''Education''
<LaserJock> but yeah, good idea
<highvoltage> LaserJock: refresh wiki page and look at how it is now?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I kept it as headings instead of just bold
<highvoltage> LaserJock: but I think it's cleaner and more readable now
<LaserJock> hmmf
<LaserJock> gimme a try at it ;-)
<Vantrax|Work> link to wiki page?
<LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/StrategyDocument
<LaserJock> highvoltage: ^^
<highvoltage> ok
<LaserJock> that's fairly compact
<LaserJock> you like it ok?
<LaserJock> or do you prefer the other way?
<highvoltage> can I cut some weasel out?
<LaserJock> sure
<highvoltage> """
<highvoltage>  1. '''Education''' - To bring an education focus to Ubuntu. Packaging and maintaining learning, teaching, content and administration tools targeted at educational. Edubuntu strives to make it easy to install and use educational software. It aims to be inclusive of all ages, subjects, languages and ability levels."""
<highvoltage> wait that needs more work, one moment please
<highvoltage> """
<highvoltage>  1. '''Education''' - To bring an education focus to Ubuntu. To package and maintain administration, learning, teaching and content targeted at education. Edubuntu strives to make it simple to install and use educational software. It aims to be inclusive of all ages, subjects, languages and ability levels.
<highvoltage> """
<LaserJock> yeah, good
<stgraber> +1
<highvoltage> """
<highvoltage>  1. '''Integration''' - To integrate educational applications and tools with the rest of the Ubuntu desktop. To Integrate with popular desktop environments such as Gnome, KDE, Xfce and Lxde. Integration is a consideration with all new features that are implemented in Edubuntu."""
<LaserJock> it's LXDE I think
<LaserJock> it feels like there should maybe be a bit more about what exactly "integration" means
<Lns> yikes.
<highvoltage> I think so too, chanced
<Lns> imho, we really need to remember to KISS
<highvoltage> LaserJock: hmm, I think the stat doc was too much of a dictionary before
<LaserJock> well, yeah
<Vantrax|Work> yeah, how much detail is required, as opposed to how much can be there. No need to get specific.
<LaserJock> but like, it has to make sense to more than just us
<LaserJock> well, we *have* to get specific somewhere
<highvoltage> we can link to the wikipedia page on what integration means?
<LaserJock> perhaps not in this doc
<Vantrax|Work> Is just say ' To integrate educational applications and tools with the rest of the Ubuntu desktop and with popular desktop environments.
<highvoltage> ok you have a point though
<LaserJock> no, I don't mean a dictionary definition
<LaserJock> I mean, so what is "integration" going to look like for us
<Lns> if anyone is unsure of the meaning of a word we should change the word
<LaserJock> a big part is making sure that apps from one DE work well in other DEs
<Vantrax|Work> yes, kde apps tend to have issues under ubuntu due to missing help files etc
<LaserJock> I don't think we need a definition, just some context
<Lns> we need to remember that we're not talking to a bunch of college buffs, we're talking to normal people that want to get computers going for their local school
<highvoltage> ok, I think this might add some clarity, perhaps the enrish nerds can help a bit with the language:
<Lns> they're going to glaze over with too much wording and just click out of IE
<highvoltage> """
<highvoltage> """
<highvoltage>  1. '''Integration''' - To integrate educational applications and tools with the rest of the Ubuntu desktop. To Integrate with popular desktop environments such as Gnome, KDE, Xfce and LXDE. Integration is a consideration with all new features that are implemented for Edubuntu. Integration is the process of ensuring that features are packaged, accessible with and consistent with the rest of the system.
<sbalneav> back
<highvoltage> Lns: pygi mentioned that yesterday as well. having too many useless words in there put people off.
<LaserJock> Lns: I would say that this doc is not primarily for general users
<Lns> isn't it going to be on the wiki front page?
<LaserJock> I didn't think so no
<Lns> oh, ok..
<highvoltage> Lns: probably linked from there, but it's not meant to be marketing material as such
<Lns> gotcha
<LaserJock> I was viewing it primary for us as a community and for potential contributors and people wanting to know more about Edubuntu
<highvoltage> we want our contributors and potential contributos to be able to understand and agree with it though
<highvoltage> "steakholders"
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> it should be fairly low-level language, though, that's true
<highvoltage> like, C?
<LaserJock> but it needs to be fairly meaningful, which does mean some clarity
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> no asm
<highvoltage> eesh. this is going to take a bit longer then :)
<LaserJock> not python
<LaserJock> hehe
<highvoltage> from edubuntu import introduction
<Vantrax|Work> perl?
<highvoltage> ok so comments on that last integration paste pls.
<highvoltage> I'll paste it again for your convenience
<highvoltage> """
<highvoltage> Integration - To integrate educational applications and tools with the rest of the Ubuntu desktop. To Integrate with popular desktop environments such as Gnome, KDE, Xfce and LXDE. Integration is a consideration with all new features that are implemented for Edubuntu. Integration is the process of ensuring that features are packaged, accessible with and consistent with the rest of the system.
<highvoltage> """
<LaserJock> how about this:
<LaserJock> Integration - To integrate educational applications and tools with the rest of the Ubuntu desktop, ensuring that features are accessible and consistent with the rest of the system. To Integrate with popular desktop environments such as Gnome, KDE, Xfce and LXDE. Integration is a consideration with all new features that are implemented for Edubuntu.
<highvoltage> that is perfect.
<highvoltage> (imho)
<highvoltage> it kind of implies what integration is as well to people who aren't familiar with the concept
<stgraber> looks good
<highvoltage> any further comments or suggestions? does the concept of integration need expantion? I don't think so considering our target audience. ubuntu contributors should generally be familiar with the concept.
<LaserJock> I just wanted some indication of what kinds of things it would mean
<LaserJock> so it wasn't just "yeah, we're going to  integrate ... whatever that means"
<highvoltage> maybe s/ubuntu desktop/ubuntu system/
<highvoltage> considering that we already mention the desktop environments
<LaserJock> sure
<highvoltage> I think that we mention what needs to be integrated and that it makes it pretty clear what we mean by integration, unless there's something I'm missing or that there's some scope that I'm not aware of
<highvoltage> btw, could "Objectives" be changed to "Objectives and Goals"? or do you consider goals to be a seperate section?
<LaserJock> I would kind of say they are the same
<LaserJock> but goals more what we said in the Intro
<highvoltage> ok
<highvoltage> pasting again to keep things going:
<LaserJock> do Objectives and Goals if you like, I don't mind
<highvoltage> """
<highvoltage>  1. '''Integration''' - To integrate educational applications and tools with the rest of the Ubuntu system. To Integrate with popular desktop environments such as Gnome, KDE, Xfce and LXDE. Integration is a consideration with all new features that are implemented for Edubuntu. Integration is the process of ensuring that features are packaged, accessible with and consistent with the rest of the system.
<highvoltage> """
<LaserJock> great
<highvoltage> we can language-fix that somewhat later too, but I think it gets the concept down
<highvoltage> shall we move on for now?
<LaserJock> yes please
<highvoltage> """
<highvoltage>  1. '''Usability''' - To adapt desktop environments, theming and the Ubuntu operating system itself to be as usable and apt as possible in an educational environment.
<highvoltage> """
<highvoltage> that could possibly do with some expantion
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> not sure about "adapt"
<highvoltage> yeah, stgraber mentioned that "apt" isn't a very good word to use either
<highvoltage> LaserJock: care giving a replacement for "Usability" a bash? I'm a bit stumped here
<highvoltage> (or anyone else of course)
<LaserJock> my original was:
<LaserJock> Edubuntu's third objective is to provide a highly usable interface for both students and teachers. Usability for adults may be very different than usability for children and so special testing and considerations need to be made. Individual educational applications should be tested by target user groups to gain feedback for upstream developers.
<LaserJock> Enhancements to operating system and desktop environment such as theming and menus should be explored to make Ubuntu better suited to educational user
<highvoltage> it gets the bulk of the message accross but it's not fun to read
<LaserJock> yeah, let's compact it
<highvoltage> and objectify it
<highvoltage> ie, start the sentences with "To..."
<highvoltage> if we can nail this part then we'll at least have:
<highvoltage> 19:12 < LaserJock> I wanted do the following:
<highvoltage> 19:12 < LaserJock> 1) introduce what Edubuntu is
<highvoltage> 19:13 < LaserJock> 2) outline what our objectives and goals are
<highvoltage> which is a good chunk of the doc.
<highvoltage> both stgraber and I will need to get some sleep soon otherwise we'll be useless tomorrow
<LaserJock> - To provide a highly usable interface for both students and teachers. Applications, themes, menus, and desktop environment will be tested and enhanced where possible specifically for children and learning environments.
<LaserJock> highvoltage: ^^ any better?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: yes, much
<LaserJock> highvoltage: want me to make the change in the wiki?
<LaserJock> highvoltage: I can work on it for a little while longer while you and stgraber get some sleep
<highvoltage> doing so...
<highvoltage> change applied.
<highvoltage> LaserJock: yes please, that will be appreciated
<highvoltage> at least we have 2/5 now that's pretty much decent
<highvoltage> 19:13 < LaserJock> 4) outline what the community looks like
<highvoltage> # 4 is also pretty much there, might just need some cleaning up
<highvoltage> 19:13 < LaserJock> 3) have specific strategies for how to achieve those objectives/goals
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> I think I'll work on that some tonight
<highvoltage> #3 will definitely need some work, probably the only hard part that's left
<LaserJock> basically some of the specifics of how we're going to develop Edubuntu
<LaserJock> not *too* specific
<LaserJock> but sort of a brief "Edubuntu developer's guide"
<highvoltage> #3 is probably good to flesh out a bit if you are up to it tonight still
<highvoltage> 19:14 < LaserJock> 5) outline our development policies and methods
<LaserJock> I'm going to combine 3 and 5 I think
<highvoltage> 5 is easy because we basically copy most of it from ubuntu
<highvoltage> ok
<highvoltage> LaserJock: ok, thanks a lot for everything, going to sleep now
<highvoltage> g'night #edubuntu
<LaserJock> thank you guys for all the work
<stgraber> yeah, 5 hours of sleep ahead :)
<sbalneav> Night
<highvoltage> night scotty!
<stgraber> night everyone
<Ahmuck> Lns, with software being given to them for free, are they scouring for free software anymore?
<sbalneav> Hmmm, mandatory key settings aren't being saved.
<sbalneav> defaults are, but not mandatoru
<stgraber> highvoltage: saw that dent from mdz ? :)
<highvoltage> stgraber: heh, yeah
<pygi> hi highvoltage
<highvoltage> hi pygi
<pygi> highvoltage: when is the meeting today
<highvoltage> pygi: 15:10 room 5. I need to give jono another poke, we did request to put it on the schedule yesterday but it's not on the schedule yet
<pygi> highvoltage: ah
<bencrisford1> Mornin' All
<bencrisford1> pygi, highvoltage, stgraber: Anything exiting going down at the UDS?
<pygi> bencrisford1: a new session today probably
<pygi> just sent a bzr patch :)
<bencrisford1> :) cool
 * bencrisford1 goes to UDS timetable
<bencrisford1> its 11:23 there right?
<pygi> bencrisford1: yes
<pygi> oh noes, ogra, the german appeared! :p
<bencrisford1> pygi: What room you in at the UDS?
<pygi> bencrisford1: now?
<bencrisford1> yup
<pygi> bazaar room
<pygi> why?
<bencrisford1> what number, im gonna tune in
<bencrisford1> all the other rooms are boring ;P
<pygi> bencrisford1: there's no streaming from this room
<bencrisford1> darn :P
<pygi> heheheheheh
<bencrisford1> why is my ftp so ruddy slow :(
<stgraber> highvoltage: ping
<highvoltage> stgraber: pong
<stgraber> highvoltage: managed to nag jono to get the edubuntu session scheduled ?
<highvoltage> stgraber: I e-mailed him again, but haven't seen it on yet, haven't run into him yet
<bencrisford1> are we talking about a UDS session?
<bencrisford1> highvoltage: I saw your blog on planet ubuntu :), how did you get the thing at the side with your lp page, youtube page, linkedin page etc.
<bencrisford1> the links thing?
<bencrisford1> is it just the links widget with pictures?
<bencrisford1> ech-o
<highvoltage> bencrisford1: it's a text widget
<bencrisford1> oh
<bencrisford1> highvoltage: finishing off my second hackergotchi :D
<highvoltage> bencrisford1: great!
<bencrisford1> One photo one, and one cartoon one
<bencrisford1> I don't like the photo one as much though, i guess its cos its got a picture of me in it
 * highvoltage asks the irc gods to summon laserjock by 15:10 or so
<bencrisford1> lol
<bencrisford1> whats at 15.10 highvoltage?
<highvoltage> bencrisford1: edubuntu session on karmic, you can participate via gobby, documentname edubuntu-karmic
<bencrisford1> oh, nice
<bencrisford1> is it in one of the main rooms?
<bencrisford1> cos there might be a stream
<highvoltage> room 5
<bencrisford1> nice
<bencrisford1> ill stream it
<bencrisford1> hmm, try saying Hi Ben
<bencrisford1> see if i hear
<bencrisford1> highvoltage: *
<bencrisford1> w00t
<bencrisford1> :)
<bencrisford1> I hear EVERYTHIGN
<bencrisford1> :D
<highvoltage> we're just hanging on a but, will start in just a minute or so
<bencrisford1> alright, if i disconnect, its my internet
<bencrisford1> im joining gobby
<bencrisford1> but it might crash my internet
<bencrisford1> whats the port for gobby.ubuntu.com?
<bencrisford1> highvoltage: I cant connect to gobby, so can you guys can sorts tell us whats goin on?
<highvoltage> bencrisford1: neither can we, seems like something just went wrong with gobby.ubuntu.com
<bencrisford1> alright
<bencrisford1> maybe someone else should host?
<BenoitStandre> same here (hello all)
<highvoltage> bencrisford1: stgraber is hosting a local one
<bencrisford1> local :O :(
<bencrisford1> i hate that word :(
<bencrisford1> highvoltage: I had an idea of an openday/openweek for edubuntu.  We could mention that
<bencrisford1> its related
<bencrisford1> :)
<bencrisford1> dw if you dont get time
<bencrisford1> highvoltage, stgraber: At some point can we mention documentation?  Because like ubuntu has special documentation for developers, I think we should have special documentation for kids
<bencrisford1> like devhelp for kids and teachers
<bencrisford1> eduhelp perhaps?
<BenoitStandre> bencrisford1: for kids/teacher documentation , it's important to have it localized , so we have to be careful not to "shoot" too large (and duplicate other efforts)
<bencrisford1> hmm, I guess
<bencrisford1> but maybe if most of the communication was through pictures
<bencrisford1> diagrams and pictures, maybe even videos
<BenoitStandre> meaning screenshots ?
<bencrisford1> yeah
<bencrisford1> and if you have used cpanel
<BenoitStandre> those have to be localized as well :-)
<bencrisford1> all the help are video tutorials
<bencrisford1> and if the layout of edubuntu is the same in all languages
<bencrisford1> then you can use videos fine
<BenoitStandre> (just found I could listen to what's going on.... listening !)
<BenoitStandre> thanks stgraber !
<BenoitStandre> I would add that it's not only by country , but also by province/state (because education is often a local jurisdiction)
<BenoitStandre> so it would make more and more packages
<BenoitStandre> In Canada and USA for sure
<bencrisford1> I just got back, whaddid i miss
<BenoitStandre> talking about the way to manage menus
<bencrisford1> ah
<BenoitStandre> that would fit for different needs following education systems all over the world
<bencrisford1> yeah
<asanchez> It would be nice to have a easy way to adapt (and translate) Education menu
<BenoitStandre> stgraber , did you conclude anything on that , besides not using packages ? (we can't follow your Gobby)
<stgraber> BenoitStandre: got it ?
<BenoitStandre> stgraber: got it.... but, usually, different config would be done in different school districts
<highvoltage> did you get that?
<stgraber> asanchez: where are you ?
<BenoitStandre> so it would be afterwards at a system wide level, not necessarily at a user level
<stgraber> asanchez: we have a meeting right now in room 5
<stgraber> (edubuntu)
<asanchez> I dont know nothing about the meeting, sorry
<highvoltage> asanchez: no problem, we couldn't get it on the official schedule in time, we did email jono yesterday but it seems that he didn't have time to add it
<highvoltage> asanchez: we'd like you to join if possible, we just had a discussion about menus and it would be nice to have your input
<bencrisford1> ARRRGGHH!  my cats coughing up a hairball on my bed :'(
<asanchez> Im moving to room 5
<bencrisford1> brb
<highvoltage> asanchez: great!
<sbalneav> Morning all
<BenoitStandre> morning !
<bencrisford1> mornin'
<Ahmuck_> goood morning
<Ahmuck_> the ability to customize menu's would be appreciated ... by building, room, user category
<Ahmuck_> using groups with a user override should accomplish this
<BenoitStandre> actually
<Ahmuck_> this could apply to all situations, cutomize programs, etc.  a .group profile or a user that belongs to a specific group and then a .individual file that customized the way the menu was.  one could even have .individual in an application folder customizing that application
<BenoitStandre> don't forget
<BenoitStandre> that K12Linux does it
<BenoitStandre> about a live LTSP CD
<BenoitStandre> ahmuck : normally, this should already be possible using xdg menus standard
<BenoitStandre> ahmuck_ but , there is no tool enabling this (except modifing files)
<sbalneav> Ahmuck_: I beleive I helped LaserJock with a project like this.
<sbalneav> it's mostly implemented.
<BenoitStandre> I suppose session is over, since we heard laptop bag zippers
<stgraber> Just spoke with collin, building with universe enabled is quite simple, we'll just need to poke him or someone else with access to the CD builder to change that and then we'll be able to mix main and universe
<BenoitStandre> seems Gobby is back
<highvoltage> stgraber: great.
<alkisg> BenoitStandre: link, please?
<bencrisford2> http://shop.canonical.com/index.php?cPath=14 -- out of all them, which should I get?
<BenoitStandre> alkisg : sorry, was talking about gobby.ubuntu.com , but the meeting is over anyway :-(
<alkisg> Ugh... thanks anyway.
<pygi> highvoltage: why are you ignoring me on jabber?
<highvoltage> pygi: no, I didn't see a message from you, my connection did drop recently though
<highvoltage> stgraber: oh wow, did you look at th strategy doc recently?
<highvoltage> stgraber: LaserJock did a lot of work on the rest of the document last night, we might actually get some sleep tonight
<pygi> highvoltage: ...
<pygi> sleep?!
<pygi> what are you talking about?!
<highvoltage> pygi: I still didn't get any jabber message from you, probably best to just talk on irc
<pygi> highvoltage: ok
<pygi> moment
<LaserJock> can we get rid of the art team?
<bencrisford1> lol show me some artwork?
<pygi> LaserJock: of edubuntu team?
<pygi> yes
<LaserJock> we just have "Edubuntu's artwork is done through the Ubuntu Artwork team."
<pygi> LaserJock: oh, sure
<LaserJock> so maybe at least until we actually have an art team that's big enough to split we can drop it
<pygi> LaserJock: exactly, that's the plan
<LaserJock> ok, so the Development section needs to get hit hard
<LaserJock> I didn't have much time last night for it :(
<pygi> LaserJock: btw. thanks for approving me as member (again), but I think I'll drop the membership
<LaserJock> why?
<pygi> because I'm not sure I want to spend as much time as I did before again, when canonical could just decide to drop the brand at one moment, or hire somebody who will revert/change all that we'll do and stuff
<LaserJock> Edubuntu Membership isn't an obligation to pour tons of time into
<pygi> possibly, but I don't think that anything other then tons of time will work with so little resources
<LaserJock> well, it's up to you of course, we just appreciate having you around
<pygi> LaserJock: I mean, I *want* Edubuntu to succeed, that's why I've contributed to the sessions and that's why I've contributed before, but ... :-/
<LaserJock> pygi: yeah, there are a lot of "but"s and "if"s right now
<pygi> LaserJock: :-/
<nubae> thats kinda the reason I'm wondering about membership myself... like what expectations are then had?
<LaserJock> none essentially
<pygi> nubae: its sustainable contribution in any form (that's the requirement for membership)
<nubae> I mean... I currently spend a lot of time on openSUSE... will I have the time to put my energy and work into edubuntu...? on one hand yes, because since I am already doing it in open suse.... it gets more easily synchronistically done for edubuntu
<nubae> but I am afraid of people maybe getting the idea I'm just in it for the membership title... and thats not it at all
<nubae> but I think LaserJock gets that
<LaserJock> well
<nubae> what I mean is, I think u realise I'm pretty consistent with helping out
<LaserJock> I'm interested in more correctly making the Launchpad team reflect what we have here on the ground
<nubae> I do what I can
<nubae> but I'd sure be more interested in the packaging/tech/distribution side now
<nubae> since its kinda important and its where we seem to have few free hands
<nubae> am I right?
<nubae> in essence it might mean an hour or 2 with u training me how to package/distribute correctly under debian/ubuntu policy
<LaserJock> right
<nubae> but once I get it, it stays...
<nubae> dotn need much for me to repeat the process afterwards
<nubae> at least till now its been that way... I am assuming this won't have a massively obuse learning curve
<bencrisford1> LaserJock: If you are gonna spend an hour or so with nubae teaching him some package stuff, ill join in too
<bencrisford1> because i wanna get involved in all that
<LaserJock> I think if Edubuntu gets a collaborative packaging team going it will be much easier for people
<bencrisford1> yup
<nubae> the best would be we try and screencast it somehow
<bencrisford1> but i need to learn to package
<bencrisford1> and motu mentoring is so ruddy hard to get
<nubae> one of us can deepen/repeat the training session
<LaserJock> learning to package can take some time, it's one of those things that you're always learning more about
<nubae> so that is useful to others
<nubae> yeah
<LaserJock> I generally favor a "learn by doing" approach
<pygi> I think the mentoring thing would be really beneficial to the edubuntu community
 * alkisg also wants to join the screencast and suggests ekiga :P
<nubae> would be nice for u finally not to be the only one packaging for edubuntu
<LaserJock> as there's just no way to give you everything you may need to know in an hour or two
<LaserJock> nubae: goodness yes!
<nubae> so I'd like to take that responsibility a little at least off your shoulders
<nubae> as a start...
<LaserJock> sure, that would be appreciated
<LaserJock> do you guys know how to use bzr?
<bencrisford1> id love to package
<bencrisford1> kinda
<bencrisford1> i got the playbook
<pygi> LaserJock: what kind of question is that? :p
<pygi> we're just discussing the future of bzr :p
<nubae> yeah bzr is easy
<nubae> its just a subversioning tool like every other
<nubae> so if u know svn, git, cvs, or whatever, u know the concept of bzr... the finer details are easy enough to learn from guides
<LaserJock> right
<nubae> I actually prefer git out of all of them
<nubae> not quite sure why
<bencrisford1> i like svn
<LaserJock> just making sure, as some people are pretty anti-bzr
<nubae> it just seems erally nice
<nubae> git, I've been told, has the least amount of admin maintenance
<nubae> though perhaps the highest learning curve to admin it
<pygi> this is nor place nor time to fight vcs's
<LaserJock> anyway, I plan on putting our packages in bzr in ~edubuntu-dev
<bencrisford1> ok
<nubae> cool
<LaserJock> that way we can all hack on them
<LaserJock> *and* we can use a team PPA for testing
<bencrisford1> sounds good
<nubae> yup, if need be we can always synch with another subversioning system
<nubae> but thats really not needed
<pygi> nubae: will you please stop masacring the vcs world?
<LaserJock> so hack hack hack, test, PPA if needed, hack hack, upload
<nubae> was thinking git cause sugar is all git
<pygi> there is no "subversioning system"
<nubae> :p
<pygi> Bazaar is a distributed version control system
<pygi> Subversion is a centralized version control system
<pygi> git is a distributed version control system
<pygi> and not a subversioning system :p
<nubae> pygi: I am sure people get what I am talking about
 * ogra doesnt :P
<LaserJock> ogra!
<nubae> the finer details are unimportant
<pygi> ogra: oh the german!
<bencrisford1> :P
<LaserJock> ogra: I didn't see you there :-)
<ogra> LaserJock, you are missed here
<LaserJock> ogra: yeah, I sure miss being there :/
<bencrisford1> ogra: Can you tell me im missed too?
<ogra> i'm hiding in the moblin meeting
<bencrisford1> just to make me feel better
 * nubae pats bencrisford1 on the back
<nubae> there there
<ogra> bencrisford1, indeed everyone not here is missed :)
 * bencrisford1 forces a smile
<ogra> but LaserJock in particular
<bencrisford1> LaserJock: how to i download the edubuntu bazaar branch?
<alkisg> So, being in the topic, can we ask questions? If I want my package to provide an /etc/some-conf-file.conf, how should I do it, considering the user may change it and I may want to provide newer versions of it? Should I just rely on debconf notifying the user?
<bencrisford1> bzr branch https://launchpad.net/~edubuntu-dev
<nubae> bencrisford1: there is quite a nice little tutorial
<nubae> let me see if I can find it
<bencrisford1> i have a nice tutorial :P
<bencrisford1> um just checking
<bencrisford1> im*
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: https://code.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-dev has the branches
<nubae> http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/latest/en/mini-tutorial/index.html
<nubae> that be the one
<nubae> bazaar in 5 minutes
<bencrisford1> bzr branch https://code.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-dev -- there we go?
<nubae> its more than 5 minutes of course, but its nicely written and quite full
<bencrisford1> ive got the playbook
<LaserJock> alkisg: I think you declare it to be a conffile in the packaging it and it handles that whole "do you want to install the maintainer's version" thing
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: no, go to https://code.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-dev to find the branches
<alkisg> LaserJock: thanks a lot, I'll google it for the details.
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: then you can click on a particular branch and it will give you the bzr branch URL
<bencrisford1> oh, ty
<sbalneav> alkisg: What's the greek language code?
<LaserJock> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/multidistrotools/edubuntu.html is also important
<alkisg> el_GR.utf8
<LaserJock> it shows us the current state of versions between Debian and Ubuntu
<LaserJock> the most important section is: Outdated in Karmic (Sid version > Karmic version), and Karmic has local changes
<bencrisford1> Who wants to mentor me :D?
<alkisg> Another question I have is: can the process from developing on a launchpad branch to redistributing via a PPA be automated? Are they somehow connected?
<LaserJock> those are packages that have a newer version available from Debian, *but* which we have to manually merge
<LaserJock> alkisg: not fully automated yet, but I think they'd like to do that at some point
<LaserJock> eventually all of Ubuntu will be done that way
<LaserJock> no more source packages
<nubae> oh they dream of oBS :p
<alkisg> LaserJock: so is there some semi-automation that I can use? or it's just manually for now?
<LaserJock> a bit more than that
<LaserJock> alkisg: it's manual but could be scripted
<nubae> alkisg: I suggest u look at oBS
<alkisg> OK, thanks again
<nubae> its a gpl tool that can be used for much more than suse stuff
<nubae> its an automated building tool
<LaserJock> alkisg: it's pretty easy to do, use bzr-builddeb and then all you will need to do is dput the package
<alkisg> nubae: I'd like to stick with launchpad for now... to also get to know about building packages manually
<bencrisford1> no-one wants to give me packaging mentoring :(?
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: I think that needs to be a group effort
<nubae> oh... to do the magic, u must know the manual procedure
<nubae> there is no automagic...
<nubae> :-)
<LaserJock> so we need to find things for people to package
<LaserJock> and by package I mean "work on"
<LaserJock> not necessarily make a new package from scratch
<nubae> welp, there is all of sugar
<nubae> many of the activities are very easy to package
 * bencrisford1 has a suggestion LaserJock
<LaserJock> yeah, Sugar is good
<LaserJock> also gcompris and tuxtype currently need a merge
<alkisg> A third question (and I think it's the last for today) is: how can I create a working tree if I have the .deb file? (or the PPA link)?
<LaserJock> alkisg: what do you mean  by a working tree?
<alkisg> E.g. suppose I want to fix something in ltsp and upload it to my PPA
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: what?
<bencrisford1> Any willing developers could find a fairly simple bug - offer mentorship - then we could use the LP mentoring system for that
<alkisg> So I can download the .deb sources but I don't know what tools to use to easily repackage it after changing it
<pygi> bencrisford1: forget LP mentoring system
<pygi> its birocratic
<bencrisford1> :/
<LaserJock> alkisg: ok, so here's what I'd do
<LaserJock> alkisg: install ubuntu-dev-tools
<LaserJock> then get the source package you want to modify, you can click on a specific version on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp or apt-get source it if you're running that particular release
<nubae> birocratic in that the pens decide who does what... :p
<LaserJock> a source package is 3 files (.dsc, .diff.gz, and .orig.tar.gz) and you can get them all easily by using dget
<LaserJock> dget <URL to .dsc file>
<LaserJock> then you can unpack it with dpkg-source -x *.dsc
<LaserJock> that gives you a working tree
<LaserJock> you then go in and modify what you want
 * bencrisford1 saves this chat
<bencrisford1> cheers LaserJock
<LaserJock> make sure to add a new changelog entry (run dch -i in the debian/ directory)
<nubae> alkisg: for that I would really use oBS... if its just to rebuild something unofficial, whereas if its official, use buntu/debian tools
<sbalneav> alkisg: bzr branch lp:~sbalneav/ltsp/alkisg-docs
 * nubae stops plugging opensuse tools now....
<alkisg> Heh too much info! Thanks all, LaserJock continue please...
<LaserJock> then from the working tree run debuild -S to create your new source package
<LaserJock> you can then cd ../ and see it (new .dsc and .diff.gz)
<LaserJock> and that can be dput'ed to Launchpad
<sbalneav> Initial upload.  I don't have any greek fonts installed here, so the compile doesn't work for me yet.  Once we get it working, it will be able to be looked at under yelp.
<LaserJock> nubae: I don't think it'll make much difference if oBS is used or LP
<LaserJock> he still needs to work on the packaging, which is the hard part
<alkisg> sbalneav: thanks a lot, I'd like to start with it after a month, to be able to finish the 9.04 ltsp installation guide first... :)
<sbalneav> alkisg: In fact, you can load it up under yelp right now: for me:  yelp file:///usr/legal/home/sbalneav/src/bzr/alkisg-docs/Ubuntu0810LTSP.xml
<alkisg> LaserJock: thanks, so if I also wanted to create a bzr branch for it, I'd use bzr import (I don't know the syntax but I'll find it) and then bzr-builddeb?
<LaserJock> alkisg: we actually already have bzr branch imports for all Ubuntu packages
<LaserJock> http://package-import.ubuntu.com/
<alkisg> Thanks man :)
<LaserJock> I don't know the details on all the packages and if bzr-builddeb will "Just Work" in all those cases
<alkisg> I think that was more than enough for a crash course :)
<LaserJock> alkisg: for LTSP stgraber would be the guy to ask about building
<LaserJock> alkisg: heh, but I could spend 3 more hours giving the basics :-)
<LaserJock> but I have a meeting with my advisor so I better not do that
<bencrisford1> LaserJock: from your advice, i put together a packaging .pdf I feel will be used for generations - http://bencrisford.exofire.net/how-to-package.pdf
<alkisg> Yeah, I know from first hand that phd requires most of one's time... :(
<LaserJock> lol
<nubae> LaserJock: hows our phd coming anyway?
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: that is a very short version. I once wrote an 80 page book on packaging
<LaserJock> nubae: OK I guess
<bencrisford1> lol
<nubae> I suppose u are being told u spend too much time with us ubuntu freakz
<LaserJock> something like that
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: I have a printed copy from long ago even
<bencrisford1> nice
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: if you read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide that was originally my work from 2005/2006
<LaserJock> back in the day ....
<bencrisford1> wow, i read that a while back
<bencrisford1> still on my bookmarks i think
<LaserJock> it was OK
<LaserJock> but over the years I've come to believe that at least Debian-based packaging is better learned experientially with a team of people
<bencrisford1> yeah
 * bencrisford1 has already prepared my motu mentoring application
<bencrisford1> hasnt sent it yet though
<bencrisford1> havent*
<LaserJock> it can be incredibly frustrating that in Debian there are at least 3 tools to do *every* task
<alkisg> sbalneav: oops, I gave you a beta version, it's not the final :(
<alkisg> sbalneav: what should I do for the images to show up?
<sbalneav> Dunno, that's to be fixed :)
<sbalneav> But, here would be my suggestion:
<sbalneav> If you're going to work on a newer verion, I'd suggest doing it in docbook.  Simply because then it can be: 1) a yelp helpfile, and an installable package that shows up in the help centre, 2) a pdf 3) an html page, etc.
<nubae> but a pain to edit....
<sbalneav> Do you get helpcenter, printable, and web all in one shot
<nubae> there really should be a decent docbook editting tool by now
<LaserJock> emacs/vim/gedit/kate
<alkisg> I've also been thinking about doing it in docbook. But the pdf looks better if I do it in .odt.
<sbalneav> I'm old-school, so editing docbook source in vi is, for me, less frustrating than getting a gui tool to do what I want.
<LaserJock> this is for LTSP and not Edubuntu?
<alkisg> LaserJock: it has a section for edubuntu
<LaserJock> sbalneav: you're just plain old :p
<sbalneav> And grumpy!
<alkisg> I also thought about doing it in a wiki, and I've put some information in the ubuntu wiki, but it was pretty specific (for greek schools) so I thought I shouldn't upload too much stuff
<LaserJock> if you want it Edubuntu-themed there is a docbook stylesheet for Edubuntu
<alkisg> Heh. There's one for Ubuntu as well?
<sbalneav> alkisg: what you'll lose in editing nicities, and slightly better looking pdf's, you'll gain in translations, and ease of producing multi-formats.
<bencrisford1> if you guys need a hand with docbook, i have quite a bit of experience
<sbalneav> We *need* to get the edubuntu-handbook kickstarted.  the LTSP section is/can be pretty detailed, but what it's missing is a lot more of the "best practices on running a lab"
<sbalneav> bencrisford1: good, you're drafted for the edubuntu-handbook
<alkisg> What's the original edubuntu handbook format? docbook or wiki?
<sbalneav> docbook
<alkisg> OK, sounds fine to me. But I'd like to finish the things I've already started before commiting to that.
<sbalneav> Thats fine.
<alkisg> (i.e. the 9.04 installation guide and some packages/scripts in my team's ppa for easy installation)
<sbalneav> I want to at least get the edubunu-handbook re-packaged for karmik
<sbalneav> having it available on the yelp center was huge for 7.04
<sbalneav> In upstream ltsp, I've got a reasonably up-to-date set of ltsp docs
<sbalneav> The came out of a large amount of stuff that was in the edubuntu-handbook, which I did a ton of work on for 7.04
<alkisg> Yes, you're doing a fine job there. (...but we should find a different formula for managing the lts.conf params :P)
<LaserJock> it would actually probably be a good idea to replace the "About Edubuntu" menu entry in System with a handbook
<sbalneav> LaserJock: yes.
<nubae> yeah we need to do the reverse of what we did with ltsp upstream docos
<sbalneav> Well, here's what I'd suggest:
<LaserJock> could be "Edubuntu Help" or something
<sbalneav> 2 packages
<alkisg> The edubuntu hand book should contain *references* to the ltsp docs, not copy/pasted content
<sbalneav> 1) the ltsp docs as 1 document, and
<sbalneav> 2) the edubuntu-handbook, with cross-links into 1)
<sbalneav> 1) gives the "how", 2) concentrates on the "why"
<sbalneav> also, on documenting some of the apps
<sbalneav> edu apps, sabayon, etc.
<LaserJock> yeah, it would be nice to have more than LTSP in there
<sbalneav> Exactly
<nubae> well its only that way cause we ripped the other stuff out
<LaserJock> well, it's always pretty much been heavy on LTSP
<LaserJock> even when it was all together
<sbalneav> that's why I suggest leaving the ltsp docs as their own doc package, and the edubuntu docs on the apps
<BenoitStandre> just reading all of you while doing some other stuff : for documenting apps, I think what lacks the most is "what program do I use to do XYZ..."
<sbalneav> BenoitStandre: You volunteering to write that? :)
<nubae> thats a tricky one since one would ideally rely on the upstream docs of particular apps
<BenoitStandre> I did write some of it
<BenoitStandre> :-)
<nubae> that really needs to be discussed... ie, how to do it
 * sbalneav puts down BenoitStandre as abnother handbook-contributor
<BenoitStandre> http://www.revolutionlinux.com/Top-10-Free-and-Open-Source,217
<BenoitStandre> actually that's a handout I give when I present or meet educators
<BenoitStandre> just something like : Task - Program Name - 3 lines on what does it do
<bencrisford1> If help is needed with the edubuntu website I can do that too, im on the dev team for a few educational web apps my mate started
<sbalneav> BenoitStandre: Can we include that info in the handbook?
<sbalneav> With attribution of course?
<BenoitStandre> the main problem I've found is that those kind of docs is often too tied to the version , so I'm trying to make it as version-free
<BenoitStandre> as possible
<BenoitStandre> of course
<sbalneav> I'm happy to get stuff into the docbook format: if people can get me something, ANYTHING, I'll munge it into the handbook.
<BenoitStandre> and count I'm willing to become a contributor on something in Edubuntu, I have a lot of opinions, but I want to be able to work on a section of stuff without committing to things I won't have time to do (as everyone else I suppose)
<BenoitStandre> so that kind of part in the handbook (and also menus structures we were discussing this morning) could be something
<sbalneav> LaserJock: where's the upstream edubuntu-handbook?  Or should I just create a new branch off of what I've got in my ppa? The old 7.04 docs
<LaserJock> sbalneav: it's in the edubuntu doc branch of the doc team
<LaserJock> bzr branch lp:~ubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-doc/edubuntu-jaunty
<LaserJock> though we need a karmic branch first
<LaserJock> sbalneav: so branch from -jaunty to edubuntu-karmic and push it
<LaserJock> I'm no longer in the doc team
<LaserJock> and I need to get outta here
<LaserJock> I'm getting sucked in again :-)
<sbalneav> ok
<sbalneav> Branching now
<alkisg> Lns: ping?
<Lns> alkisg: pong
<alkisg> Hi man, I think you had some scripts to automate ltsp-update-image and other tasks, could I reuse some parts of the source?
<Lns> of course! It's really nothing special.
<Lns> alkisg: do you need me to post it?
<alkisg> Yes please
<alkisg> I think it'll save me some time... I'm trying to put a package for something similar in my PPA
<Lns> alkisg: http://pastebin.ca/1436463
<Lns> note that some of the functionality isn't there...this was really a custom script not totally portable
<alkisg> Thanks Lns. Even the ideas for what scripts are needed will help! :)
<Lns> alkisg: cool. What kind of package are you making? maybe we can collaborate.
<alkisg> I named it "sch-scripts", and it'll contain whatever scripts I think the teachers will find useful
<alkisg> So I guess it's a superset of what you already did. I'll make an initial version and I'll keep updating it constantly.
<Lns> alkisg: are you planning on making it portable for different people to use as well?
<alkisg> Not right now, but I'd like to do that for Karmic
<alkisg> For now it'll be text based, for Karmic I'd like to use python/gtk (or qt)
 * alkisg curses the new xorg or whatever it is that restarts his X occationally :(
<Lns> yikes
<Lns> did you install that new xcb with the java fix?
 * ogra stops restarting alkisg's X remotely for now
<alkisg> Lns, yup, from stgraber's ppa
<Lns> lol ogra =)
<Lns> alkisg: is that when it started restarting?
<alkisg> Argh... and I was just ready to inverse ogra's ssh connection :P
<alkisg> Lns, when I upgraded to 9.04 :)
<Lns> alkisg: aaah.
<alkisg> But it only does it every 10-15 days, so I didn't bother trying stuff to fix it...
<Lns> ogra: have you taken a look at the new TCM initiative? :)
 * alkisg has always wondered why TCM was abandoned :(
<Lns> alkisg: because ogra can't be a hero for everything!
<Lns> =) but it's not abandoned anymore...
<alkisg> Sure, but why didn't someone pick it up yet?
 * Lns has
<alkisg> So you're really going to do this? Yey!
<Lns> https://launchpad.net/tcm-ng
<ogra> alkisg, i only abandoned it because i didnt have time for it
<alkisg> Lns, why didn't you use just "tcm" and changed it to "tcm-ng"? Isn't that going to confuse people?
<ogra> and because it did grow beyond the initial purpose .... i wanted a tiny app to manage your clients and it grew several heads
<Lns> alkisg: my coder really wanted to keep the projects separate since this will be doing a lot of different things
<Lns> we might be changing the name later on down the road, but for now this was the best
<alkisg> Understood. So, what are the first specs? What will the first version include?
<Lns> alkisg: we're generally cleaning up code, and solidifying its current functionality. Later on we're going to be melting it together with "LTSP Manager" (another one of ogra's old LTSP projects) and making it one app w/TCM.
<alkisg> Good plan :)
<Lns> We'll be adding a ton of functionality down the line, but for now we just want to make sure the base of it all is very solid and easily extended through plugins.
<ogra> Lns, eek
<ogra> i kept them distinct for a reason :)
<Lns> ogra: what reason was that?
<ogra> but do whatever you feel is right
<ogra> they are two apps for two different purposes ... one only applies to the server settings and one applies to the running clients
<Lns> ogra: yeah, I had gotten that idea too.. My idea is to make a central app to be able to do all of this stuff, as to not confuse ltsp admins with many different apps.. I hope we're not stepping on your toes at all with doing this
<Lns> We're going to be separating it all into sections so hopefully everything will have its place
<Lns> and won't be confused with "is this a client operation or a server operation?"
<ogra> its hard to get right in a usable way
<alkisg> Yeah, "administration control center" and "plugins" are the keywords here :)
<Lns> ogra: agreed. I'd like to say I'm not too bad at designing UIs, though I don't have a lick of GTK experience..that's what my coder is for. I literally have sketches on paper of what i want it to look like, menus, etc.
<Lns> there will be drop-down menus for server operations, client operations, etc.
<ogra> as i said, feel free to do what you like
<ogra> its all yours
<Lns> ogra: ty.. i hope we'll make you proud =)
<Lns> thanks =) I appreciate all of the hard work you put into it, it's really great stuff
<Lns> with what exists already, and where i want it to be when it's semi-done, I'm really hoping this will be *the* LTSP administration interface that everyone wants to use for Ubuntu
<Lns> and other distros, if ported
<stgraber> highvoltage: ping
<stgraber> highvoltage: I'm in the lobby and ready to go for some food
<ogra> stgraber, dont let the soccer fans run you down
<alkisg> Which package would be a good start (as a template) to make a new package that contains some simple scripts for classroom management?
<alkisg> I mean all the debian/control, INSTALL, README etc stuff..
<alkisg> Shell or at most python/gtk scripts
<nubae> Did I miss anything?
<ogra> life ? (because you spend your time in front of a computer)
 * alkisg thinks ogra's behavior changed a lot when he got in the netbook business.. I should really try getting one for myself :P
<ogra> heh
<alkisg> So, what would be a good buy? (with ubuntu preinstalled?)
<ogra> no, i'm at UDS ... not getting enough sleep having am aircondition cold with permanently running nose ... makes me slightly sarcastic :)
<ogra> get a dell mini9
<nubae> slightly
 * alkisg googles...
<ogra> s/am/an/
<nubae> oh wait.... even that was sarcastic
<ogra> heh
<nubae> ;-)
<nubae> arent there any arm based netbooks coming soon worth waiting for?
<ogra> yeah, at some point ...
<ogra> i have no precise dates for them though
<ogra> but should be this year
<nubae> ok, how does it compare with atom, I guess battery wise there will be some nice destinctions?
<ogra> yeah, should be
<ogra> though i havent had a chance to measure anything yet
<ogra> my evaluation dev boards are all using a power supply and no battery
<nubae> still the most annoying thing is battery times... when we can have a laptop that charges in an hour and has 10 hours battery life, I'll be happy
<nubae> aha
<ogra> but i'd go for a 8h guess for the first iteration of these devices
<nubae> nice
<nubae> otherwise?
<ogra> which might go up to two days once they found the right combo of peripherials
<nubae> I heard of this new linux distro that is like blazingly fast because everything is in ram... but takes 5 minutest to start up... u know what I'm talking about?
<ogra> well, i havent seen atoms with more than 4h
<ogra> no, havent hear of it
<nubae> tin hat linux
<nubae> security is the main concern for running everything in ram, but the speed benefits seemed very cool
<ogra> 2.3G ?
<ogra> thats insane
<nubae> http://opensource.dyc.edu/tinhat-downloads
<ogra> and you wont run it on an atom netbook
<ogra> atom cant address above 2G
<nubae> was just mentioned in linux magazine, sounded kinda interesting
<ogra> rather something for a paranoid desktop user
<nubae> heh maybe for banks, insurance companies
<nubae> in the same magazine there is mention of the marvell plug based computer
<ogra> the sheeva ?
<ogra> sadly arm9
<nubae> marvell.com/faetured/plugcomputing.jsp
<ogra> yeah, we wont suport arm9 anymore in karmic
<ogra> anyway, i need to find some dinner too ...
<ogra> ciao
<nubae> sounded like a pretty neat little ltsp connection
<nubae> ok then, eat well
<alkisg> adios ogra
<sbalneav> Hmmm, I'm not getting what I think is expected behaviour on the sabayon builds
<sbalneav> gconf mods are only getting written to $HOME/.gconf.xml.defaults
<sbalneav> none to mandatory.
<sbalneav> ahhhhhhh
<sbalneav> /etc/gconf/2/paths
<sbalneav> # default path for sabayon
<sbalneav> include "$(HOME)/.gconf.path.defaults"
<sbalneav> sabayon's writing to .gconf.xml.defaults
<Lns> heh
<Lns> that's secure ;)
<Ahmuck> sbalneav: link to svn for sabayon?
<sbalneav> builds are in my ppa
<sbalneav> I don't have a bzr branch for it yet.
<Ahmuck> link to your ppa
<Ahmuck> bzr, ah
<sbalneav> https://edge.launchpad.net/~sbalneav/+archive/ppa
<Ahmuck> r the builds for 9.04 ?
<sbalneav> yes
<sbalneav> I'm trying to decide now which should be patched, gconf or sabayon
<sbalneav> gconf's path specifically mentions including the path for sabayon
<sbalneav> but sabayon uses .xml. instead of .path.
<Ahmuck> i'd use .xml
<Ahmuck> .path is odd
<Ahmuck> .xml is standard
<Ahmuck> though, i don't understand how .path is used here
 * alkisg would go with .gconf.path.defaults, it's easier to patch sabayon than gconf, and it's about gconf key paths, not the format of the files inside this directory...
<sbalneav> My thoughts exactly.  I have to convice someone ELSE to patch gconf.  I can patch sabayon
<sbalneav> path of least resistance wins every time :)
<stgraber> hello
<bligneri> hello
<stgraber> nubae, Lns: You both there ?
 * Lns waves to stgraber 
<highvoltage> hi!
<Lns> hey highvoltage
<Lns> wasn't ther ea meeting..?
<BenoitStandre> hello all
<stgraber> yeah, missing LaserJock, looking for him
 * Lns checks the casino
<highvoltage> Lns: yep yep, we need las	thoguugh :/
<highvoltage> anyone has his number perhaps so that we can sms him?
<Lns> nope
<stgraber> btw, we're waiting for Jordan to arrive (LaserJock)
<highvoltage> bummer, it doesn't seem like jordan is coming :/
<Lns> :(
<stgraber> we'll wait for 15min then we'll have to reschedule
<stgraber> we can technically do it with only highvoltage and I but we'd prefer to have LaserJock too with all the changes happening in edubuntu at the moment
<highvoltage> yeah I agree
<pygi> what is happening toda?
<pygi> today*
<LaserJock> crap, did I miss the EC meeting?
<stgraber> hey
<stgraber> will be there in a sec
<stgraber> doing some networking for highvoltage
<LaserJock> bligneri: around?
<stgraber> he's going to his hotel, should be there soon
<LaserJock> funny little thing
<LaserJock> I totally forgot about the meeting (working on dissertation)
<stgraber> Lns, nubae: you guys still there ?
<LaserJock> but I saw maco reply to a dent by bligneri about an Edubuntu meeting
<LaserJock> ;-)
<Lns> i'm here
<highvoltage> yay
<Lns> so.... =) are we all here?
<LaserJock> where's nubae?
<Lns> nubaeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
<LaserJock> anybody else around who wishes to become an Edubuntu member?
<BenoitStandre> I would, but I just started contributing :-D
<BenoitStandre> Can we become "honoris causa" ;-)
<highvoltage> I'm here I'm here
<highvoltage> so what are we waiting for to hit the meeting start gong
<sbalneav> gong
<highvoltage> great, doing it here or in #ubuntu-meeting
<highvoltage> you have to hit it in the channel you're doing it
<pygi> LaserJock: I want to become a council member ::p
<LaserJock> here is fine I think for now
 * pygi hides
<LaserJock> pygi: pffft, this morning you didn't even want to be a Member
<pygi> its still the same actually :)
<LaserJock> you're more than welcome to run for council member
<pygi> nah, I'm not useful enough
<LaserJock> but you gotta be an Edubuntu Member to run :-)
<pygi> hahahahah
<pygi> highvoltage: will you shoot him? :D
<LaserJock> unfortunately it seems like being useful is not necessarily a requirement ;-)
<pygi> oh cool then :p
 * pygi hands in his candidature for council xD
<highvoltage> right
<highvoltage> agenda?
<pygi> highvoltage: stgraber ?
<stgraber> - Application for membership (Lns and nubae)
<LaserJock> let's start with Lns then
<highvoltage> hi Lns
<sbalneav> Lns++
<LaserJock> Lns: do you have a wiki page?
<Lns> well hello =)
<LaserJock> Lns: it would be good to give an intro and then a brief statement of why you should become an Edubuntu Member
<Lns> Well I'm Jordan Erickson, I run a tech consulting business in California USA
<bligneri> hello
<Lns> I think I should be a member because I've been involved with deploying Edubuntu/UbuntuLTSP for about 3 years, and I am very interested in keeping the community progressing toward whatever goals we set
<LaserJock> Lns: How long have you been contributing to Edubuntu?
<Lns> I want to see Ubuntu/Edubuntu and F/OSS in all aspects of education so children understand what it means to share
<Lns> For about 3 years. Depends on what you mean by contributing. =)
<Lns> I've filled out bug reports, contributed on IRC/lists, etc.
<Lns> IANAP, but I've also done documentation for LTSP
<LaserJock> Lns: could you give some examples of contributions you're particularly proud of?
<Lns> umm
<Lns> not in a very specific sense, no - I feel that my greatest contributions have been here on IRC helping others with questions regarding edubuntu
<Lns> coordinating with other people on direction
<sbalneav> He certainly contributes several pages to the handbook
<sbalneav> contributed
<Lns> yeah
<Lns> that too =)
<stgraber> Have you contributed to Ubuntu outside of Edubuntu (just wondering) ?
<highvoltage> what I appreciate about Lns is also his consistency, you can rely on him being around
<Lns> stgraber: yeah, particularly in LTSP
<Lns> I am a HUGE advocate for Linux in school, and I'm steering my whole company toward getting it in wherever it will fit.
<LaserJock> Lns: can you give the URL for your LP page please?
<Lns> https://launchpad.net/~lns
<highvoltage> ah so that's what he looks like
<Lns> that's the only pic of me not making a muppet face =p
<LaserJock> lol
<LaserJock> Lns: so do you have any specific plans of what you want to do as an Edubuntu memeber? just more of the same?
<Lns> Depends on the goals we set as a community. :)
<Lns> I plan on being involved with as much as possible
<Lns> documentation, advocacy, bug reporting, ...
<highvoltage> ok, I think we have enough information to put it to the vote?
<LaserJock> I'm good
<LaserJock> stgraber?
<highvoltage> For Lns's commitment and passion and being consistent in the Edubuntu community for so long, I think he's deserved to be a member for a while now. I also think it's good that he has quite specific educational focus
<highvoltage> +1
<stgraber> He's doing LTSP doc for me, so +1 of course :)
<stgraber> (I hate writting doc just in case you're wondering :))
<LaserJock> +1 for a sustained and significant contribution to Edubuntu, in particular bug work and top-notch user support
<LaserJock> Lns: welcome!
 * Lns grins
<Lns> thanks!
<highvoltage> we're really happy to have you Lns
<Lns> thanks highvoltage, i'm glad to be a part of it all
<LaserJock> highvoltage: you wanna flip the switch in LP?
<highvoltage> k
<highvoltage> done
<highvoltage> nubae's turn?
 * Lns likes his shiny new badge
<stgraber> nubae: ?
<highvoltage> ok, let's continue until nubae pops up for time economy
<pygi> :)
<highvoltage> there's a long list of people who clicked the apply for membership button in LP
<pygi> highvoltage: it always happens
<highvoltage> yes, we just need to decline those who didn't follow the process
<highvoltage> perhaps at least all the ones older than 2009 with a message such as "Sorry, but your proposed membership for edubuntu-members has expired, feel free to follow the membership process at any time." (or something like that)
<highvoltage> stgraber suggests that the team is turned into an invite-only team
<pygi> and what about my application? :p
<highvoltage> stgraber: if you say it to me IRL they can't hear me :)
<stgraber> heh
<highvoltage> pygi: your application?
<pygi> highvoltage: for EC :p
 * pygi hides
<highvoltage> riiiiight
<highvoltage> I'm not sure LaserJock is with us anymore
<LaserJock> oh, sorry
<LaserJock> I think we could make it invitation only
<LaserJock> and say in the team description that to apply you need to email edubuntu-devel or something
<highvoltage> LaserJock: how do we set it, do we need an lp-admin?
<LaserJock> the team owner does it
<LaserJock> which would be CC :/
<LaserJock> we need to get the EC to own ~edubuntu-members
<highvoltage> yes. would the CC then own the EC?
<stgraber> we should change that ... (well, ask someone to)
<stgraber> I looked at how Kubuntu do that and they don't have the CC anywhere.
<stgraber> yeah, we can let them own the EC if they want to
<bencrisford1> have i missed some sort of meeting?
<highvoltage> ok
<LaserJock> highvoltage: I think the CC should own EC
<Vantrax|Home> I agree, for what its worth
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I like the idea that they own it too, it shows in LP who we are accountable to
<Vantrax|Home> that became a huge issue for CC in the meeting yesterday
<LaserJock> I just don't want single individuals owning any core teams
<LaserJock> it's a bottleneck
<highvoltage> 100% agreed, we don't want things to become a mess if someone has to leave unexpectantly
<Lns> nubae's here!
<bencrisford1> wooo!
 * pygi thinks highvoltage is ignoring me :p
<highvoltage> pygi: ok, so you seriously want to apply for EC?
<bencrisford1> i know I have no authority whatsoever, but for what its worth pygi - id vote for you
<pygi> highvoltage: ++ :p
<highvoltage> bencrisford1: cheerleading is totally allowed
<bencrisford1> yay :)
<pygi> highvoltage: I think we need to talk about some things, but yes, I do want to apply
<highvoltage> ok, shall we handle pygi's EC request after nubae's membership request? (stgraber/laserjock?)
<LaserJock> highvoltage: I think we should do formal nominations/votes now that we have some members and a quorum of EC
<highvoltage> ok
<stgraber> k
<LaserJock> adding stgraber was an emergency to get a quorum of EC
<LaserJock> but we generally should use nominations/voting
<bencrisfo> /me comforts stgraber
<highvoltage> heh
<highvoltage> nubae: are you around?
<bencrisford1> Just to let you guys know, bencrisfo is me on my ipod, im kind of sleeping/on my pc at the same time
<bencrisford1> cos im'a be up all night
<highvoltage> any other items for this meeting?
<bencrisford1> Yes
<bencrisford1> actually no...
<LaserJock> heh
<bencrisford1> stgraber: Did you change your mind about the bribe :P?
<stgraber> nah :)
<bencrisford1> darn
<bencrisford1> :(
<bencrisford1> i have one testimonial looking very lonely, and it dont even have a +1 with it :P
<bencrisford1> its not looking good :P
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: when are you going to be up?
<bencrisford1> next tuesday
<bencrisford1> 1 week :S
<highvoltage> just before we wrap up
<highvoltage> the edubuntu strategy doc is very close to being completed
<highvoltage> anyone is welcome to comment on it
<bencrisford1> ill check it out ;)
<highvoltage> although it's really not going to change much unless there is some extreme circumstance
<highvoltage> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/StrategyDocument
<highvoltage> we'll probably just do some cleanup still
<LaserJock> well, the Development section is not close
<LaserJock> everything else should be though
<highvoltage> ok, I think we should briefly talk about it after this
<bencrisford1> LaserJock: No marketing team :(?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> if it becomes needed to formalize a marketing team we can add one
<LaserJock> and perhaps we should make it clear in the doc
<bencrisford1> alright
<LaserJock> just because a formal team is not there doesn't mean people aren't welcome to work in that area
<bencrisford1> although I am quite eager to make some posters and stuff, and if we could use a bazaar branch through lp
<LaserJock> but I consider the *whole* edubuntu team as a part of the marketing team
<bencrisford1> ok
<bencrisford1> but a special bzr branch would be quite cool
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> we could put that in ~edubuntu-members perhaps
<bencrisford1> :( thats one of the problems i have with the strategy doc
<bencrisford1> "The Edubuntu Developers are Edubuntu Members who desire to work on packaging and have shown that they are unlikely to cause problems with any of the Edubuntu packages." -- so non-members cant package :O?
<LaserJock> no, not at all
<LaserJock> they just don't have direct commit access
<highvoltage> LaserJock, stgraber: can we adjourne?
<stgraber> I think so
<LaserJock> the beauty of bzr is that merges are easy
<highvoltage> *bong*
<LaserJock> non-members just need to request a merge when they're branch is ready
<bencrisford1> i think the developer process needs to be more clear and structured
<bencrisford1> maybe like the MOTU where you submit a few patches etc.  and you might become a motu
<bencrisford1> we could do the same
<bencrisford1> but developer status automatically givess membership ?
<LaserJock> well, this was designed to be easier than MOTU
<bencrisford1> but if we did it like that the developers could be members of the members team
<bencrisford1> if you follow
<LaserJock> well, either way
<LaserJock> we don't necessarily need that, but yeah, that'd make sense to do
<bencrisford1> I think its fine however, but whatever we are doing
<bencrisford1> it isnt clear in the doc IMO
<LaserJock> what part isn't clear?
<LaserJock> highvoltage: you get dholbach's email? :-)
<bencrisford1> well, i guess it is clear, but i did have to read it twice
<bencrisford1> its just one of those sentances
<bencrisford1> where you read it wrong first time around
<LaserJock> ok, maybe we can rewrite that a bit to clarify
<highvoltage> LaserJock: just saw it
<LaserJock> highvoltage: will you or stgraber have time to reply? I'm a bit swamped
<highvoltage> LaserJock: yes
<LaserJock> I gotta run
<LaserJock> cya later folks
<bencrisford2> highvoltage, stgraber, pygi: Its 00:10 down in sunny barcelona right?
<stgraber> yeah
<bencrisford2> what time y'all gonna be turning in?
<asanchez> Good night everybody
<bencrisford2> C ya asanchez
<bencrisford2> Stay a while :(?
<asanchez> Hi bencrisford2
<pygi> asanchez: :P
<pygi> you just appeared to say good night? :D
<asanchez> pygi, sorry
<bencrisford2> lol, in barcelona its technically the morning though right?
<bencrisford2> mornin asanchez ;0
<bencrisford2> ;)*
<bencrisford2> hmm, im gonna see how long i can stay awake without falling asleep at my keyboard
<bencrisford2> no caffeine :P
<bencrisford2> in fact i havent even had a coffee today D=
<bencrisford2> What are your bets on how long i'll last?  Ive been up since 8:30am, no caffeine all day
<stgraber> bah, 1 or 2am should still be quite easy :)
<bencrisford2> lol, fancy a contest ?
<bencrisford2> :D
<pygi> bencrisford2: he's up every day until 2 or 3am
<pygi> don't challenge him
<bencrisford2> meh, i like a challenge
<bencrisford2> :P
<bencrisford2> stgraber: we'll adjust it so its fair over cross-timezones
<bencrisford2> whaddya say?
<bencrisford2> dont worry if you wanna get a good nights sleep cos of the UDS
<stgraber> hehe, as long as I've something to do it's no problem :)
<bencrisford2> :P
<stgraber> currently it's basically reading and answering mails
<bencrisford2> how do we adjust the time zones
<bencrisford2> is it my time +1
<bencrisford2> or yours -1
<bencrisford2> ?
<bencrisford2> in fact we dont need to
<bencrisford2> and its impossible to do it fairly anyway
<stgraber> yeah ...
 * bencrisford2 gonna work on his history essay
#edubuntu 2009-05-28
<bencrisford2> still awake over there stgraber?
<stgraber> sure
<bencrisford2> lol, this'll be tricky
<bencrisford2> im in serious pain over here
<bencrisford2> turned my brightness right down cos its hurting my eyes :(
<stgraber> yeah, funny thing being that if I actually go to bed, you'll still have to wait an hour to leave at the same time as I do :)
<bencrisford2> :P
<bencrisford2> no we'll do it on times
<bencrisford2> so record when you go
<bencrisford2> i will when i go
<bencrisford2> but i might not be able to
<bencrisford2> cos chances are ill fall asleep on my keyboard... :/
<bencrisford2> uh oh, the dizziness is starting to kick in
<bencrisford2> Youve probably won :P, we'll see how it goes though
<bencrisford1> lol, that wasnt me giving in stgraber, but my internet goes from time to time
<stgraber> hehe
<asanchez> see you tomorrow
<asanchez> pygi, thanks for the talk
<LaserJock> yo
<LaserJock> there's going to be a Packaging Training session in #ubuntu-classroom in 16 min.
<bencrisford1> LaserJock: Im trying to sort a bot
<bencrisford1> that'll log our meetings
<bencrisford1> if we start the meeting with ===
<bencrisford1> and end with ===
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> actually
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: I would maybe not worry about that
<bencrisford1> :(
<bencrisford1> but im bored and its keeping me awake
 * bencrisford1 must beat stgraber :P
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: I think in the future we should hold our meetings in #ubuntu-meeting where there is already a bot
<bencrisford1> :(
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: I'm sure we could use a different bot though :-)
<bencrisford1> yay :)
<LaserJock> I'm not sure what exactly
<LaserJock> hmm
<bencrisford1> well have a think and ill see what I can do
<LaserJock> perhaps something useful related to packages, bzr branches, or bugs
<bencrisford1> there are already plenty, but ill get an EduBugs one?
<LaserJock> I was thinking of something specifically for us
<LaserJock> is there one that does both Ubuntu and Debian versions of packages?
<bencrisford1> errr
<bencrisford1> i dunno how id do packages one
<bencrisford1> but itd be easy to do bugs i think
<bencrisford1> in fact we got one or two on here now
<bencrisford1> lets see
<bencrisford1> bug 12345
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 12345 in isdnutils "isdn does not work, fritz avm (pnp?)" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/12345
<bencrisford1> LaserJock: we have a bugs one
<LaserJock> well, kinda
<bencrisford1> and a package one actually
<bencrisford1> !gedit
<ubottu> Text Editors: gedit (GNOME), Kate (KDE), mousepad (Xfce4) - Terminal-based: nano, vi/vim, emacs - For HTML/CSS editors, see !html - For programming editors and IDE, see !code
<LaserJock> for individual bugs it's ok
<LaserJock> but I want better ones darn it :-)
<bencrisford1> !xchat
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about xchat
<bencrisford1> ubottu: Dance!
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about Dance!
<LaserJock> I want to be able to get a list (or a number if too many) of  bugs for a specific package
<bencrisford1> ubottu: edubuntu...
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about edubuntu...
<bencrisford1> thats useful
<LaserJock> I'd also like for packages, what the versions are in Ubuntu and Debian
<LaserJock> I don't need really a description
<bencrisford1> hang on im sure theres a way
<LaserJock> rmadison gives you version info
<bencrisford1> here comes benbot
<bencrisford1> http://www.google.com
<bencrisford1> EduBenBot: www.google.com
<EduBenBot> bencrisford1: Error: "www.google.com" is not a valid command.
<bencrisford1> darn
<bencrisford1> lets work out how to use him :/
<bencrisford1> EduBenBot: list URL
<EduBenBot> bencrisford1: last and stats
<bencrisford1> EduBenBot: URL www.google.com
<EduBenBot> bencrisford1: Error: The "URL" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "www.google.com" in it.  Try "list URL" to see the commands in the "URL" plugin.
<bencrisford1> EduBenBot: list URL
<EduBenBot> bencrisford1: last and stats
<bencrisford1> EduBenBot: URL last www.google.com
<EduBenBot> bencrisford1: (url last [<channel>] [--{from,with,without,near,proto} <value>] [--nolimit]) -- Gives the last URL matching the given criteria. --from is from whom the URL came; --proto is the protocol the URL used; --with is something inside the URL; --without is something that should not be in the URL; --near is something in the same message as the URL; If --nolimit is given, returns all the URLs that are found. (1 more message)
<bencrisford1> EduBenBot: list math
<EduBenBot> bencrisford1: base, calc, convert, icalc, rpn, and units
<bencrisford1> EduBenBot: calc
<EduBenBot> bencrisford1: (calc <math expression>) -- Returns the value of the evaluated <math expression>. The syntax is Python syntax; the type of arithmetic is floating point. Floating point arithmetic is used in order to prevent a user from being able to crash to the bot with something like '10**10**10**10'. One consequence is that large values such as '10**24' might not be exact.
<bencrisford1> EduBenBot: calc 2 + 2
<EduBenBot> bencrisford1: 4
<bencrisford1> EduBenBot: list Google
<EduBenBot> bencrisford1: Error: 'Google' is not a valid plugin.
<bencrisford1> LaserJock: Whaddya think of edubenbot?
<bencrisford1> ill add some stuff to him tommorrow
<bencrisford1> EduBenBot: calc 29382798279837198273987319827398127 + 123871928739873981279837987918279387
<EduBenBot> bencrisford1: Error: The command "calc" is available in the Google and Math plugins.  Please specify the plugin whose command you wish to call by using its name as a command before "calc".
<bencrisford1> EduBenBot: Math calc 29382798279837198273987319827398127 + 123871928739873981279837987918279387
<EduBenBot> bencrisford1: 153254727019800003222355946063790080
<bencrisford1> EduBenBot: list Google
<EduBenBot> bencrisford1: cache, calc, fight, google, lucky, meta, phonebook, spell, and stats
<bencrisford1> EduBenBot: help Google calc
<EduBenBot> bencrisford1: (google calc <expression>) -- Uses Google's calculator to calculate the value of <expression>.
<bencrisford1> EduBenBot: help Google fight
<EduBenBot> bencrisford1: (google fight <search string> <search string> [<search string> ...]) -- Returns the results of each search, in order, from greatest number of results to least.
<bencrisford1> EduBenBot: list URL
<EduBenBot> bencrisford1: last and stats
<bencrisford1> EduBenBot: help URL last
<EduBenBot> bencrisford1: (url last [<channel>] [--{from,with,without,near,proto} <value>] [--nolimit]) -- Gives the last URL matching the given criteria. --from is from whom the URL came; --proto is the protocol the URL used; --with is something inside the URL; --without is something that should not be in the URL; --near is something in the same message as the URL; If --nolimit is given, returns all the URLs that are found. (1 more message)
<bencrisford1> EduBenBot: last google.com
<EduBenBot> bencrisford1: (last [--{from,in,on,with,without,regexp} <value>] [--nolimit]) -- Returns the last message matching the given criteria. --from requires a nick from whom the message came; --in requires a channel the message was sent to; --on requires a network the message was sent on; --with requires some string that had to be in the message; --regexp requires a regular expression the message must match; --nolimit (1 more message)
<bencrisford1> EduBenBot: stats www.google.com
<EduBenBot> bencrisford1: (stats takes no arguments) -- Returns some statistics on the user database.
<bencrisford1> EduBenBot: Stats
<EduBenBot> bencrisford1: I have 1 registered users with 0 registered hostmasks; 1 owner and 0 admins.
<bencrisford1> EduBenBot: Stats owner
<EduBenBot> bencrisford1: (stats takes no arguments) -- Returns some statistics on the user database.
<bencrisford1> EduBenBot: Owner
<EduBenBot> bencrisford1: Error: "Owner" is not a valid command.
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: maybe you should setup a temp channel to play with the bot
<bencrisford1> ok, soz
<bencrisford1> im done with playing now i think
<bencrisford1> mathbot can stay :)
<MathBot> bencrisford1: Error: "can" is not a valid command.
<bencrisford1> MathBot: calc 2 + 2
<MathBot> bencrisford1: 4
<JoshuaRL> hey dudes
<bencrisford1> hey
<bencrisford1> LaserJock: This could come in useful...
<bencrisford1> you know on lp all the bug urls are really long
<bencrisford1> EduBenBot: ShrinkUrl tiny https://launchpad.net/some/random/shizzle
<EduBenBot> bencrisford1: http://tinyurl.com/qlt2sa
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: perhaps so
<bencrisford1> mathbot is pretty nifty too
<MathBot> bencrisford1: Error: "is" is not a valid command.
<bencrisford1> MathBot: calc 4372843798237498723984798 / 2128739182793872198379187 * 32179832791873981 + 31293791827391827
<MathBot> bencrisford1: 97397419453604064
<stgraber> ok, just finished all I had to do, good night guys
<bencrisford1> :D
<stgraber> good luck bencrisford1 ;)
<bencrisford1> nah im off now is anyway
<bencrisford1> you win i guess
<stgraber> hehe
<bencrisford1> c ya
<bencrisford1> dam!
<bencrisford1> I was meant to get a welcome message :'(
<bencrisford1> dam bot >:
<Vantrax> lol
<sbalneav> evening all
<bencrisford1> its mornin in the uk :P
<sbalneav> Really?
<LaserJock> hi sbalneav
<sbalneav> Imagine that.
<sbalneav> Hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> sbalneav: I was excited to see your email to the sabayon list
<sbalneav> Well, I think I might have found the problem.\
<sbalneav> I'm in the local anarcho-syndicalist cafe here, waiting for my son to come out of Piano lessons, so I'm not in a position to repair it RFN, but I'm going to kick it when I get back later.
<bencrisford1> LaserJock: Well, i'm off, the Bots have some nice features
<bencrisford1> you can leave notes for offline peeps to get when they join and stuff
<bencrisford1> but apparently the herald thing isnt working :(
<bencrisford1> night all
<sbalneav> CrimsonChapeau stores their defaults for sabayon in .gconf.xml.defaults, but The One True Linux Distro (c) 2003-2009 Canonical inc. stores it in .gconf.path.defaults
<sbalneav> since sabayon developers work for CrimsonChapeau.....
<sbalneav> We have a path mismatch.
<sbalneav> I'm gonna patch it up a bit later
<sbalneav> Thing is, they embed the path in multiple places as a plaintext string in the code, so when I patch it, I'll extrapolate it out to a variable in the config.py.in file.  Those patches I'll send upstream.
<sbalneav> that way, in future, we'll only have to patch it in one place.
<sbalneav> and I started looking at a design for the edubuntu-ldap-server metapackage.
<sbalneav> after I get a functioning ladap server working, then I can attack the s-t-b problem
<LaserJock> lol
<LaserJock> CrimsonChapeau ... that rocks
<EduBenBot> Announcement from my owner (bencrisford): So what do you all think of the Edubuntu bots? I have put EduBenBot (a mod of my own BenBot) in the channel, and MathBot so we have our very own calculator. You can type EduBenBot: list or MathBot: list to get a list of commands
<LaserJock> sbalneav: yeah, I think half the battle with sabayon is to keep the devs (such as they are) honest about not being a Red Hat project
<sbalneav> Boy, I'm sure glad we have a calculator bot now, the math I've had to do in this channel has been a real grind and it's just so hard to do applications->accessories->Calculator :)
<bencrisford1> Guys, have a go with my bots :(
<bencrisford1> play with mathbot
<bencrisford1> MathBot: calc 098309128309128 / 321093812093809128 * 2813092830192809c +298137982739812
<MathBot> bencrisford1: Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
<sbalneav> Do any of the bots have seen ?
<bencrisford1> MathBot: calc 098309128309128 / 321093812093809128 * 2813092830192809 +298137982739812
<MathBot> bencrisford1: 2.98999265934e+14
<bencrisford1> svalneav: seen?
<sbalneav> !seen bencrisford1
<ubottu> I have no seen command
<sbalneav> Seen's the most useful command a bot can have
<bencrisford1> says it works :/
<bencrisford1> hmmm
<sbalneav> keeps track of all nicks in the channel
<sbalneav> go to #ltsp
<sbalneav> !seen jammcq
<ubottu> I have no seen command
<bencrisford1> *sigh* ill make a seen bot
<sbalneav> or you could just do apt-get install supybot, which has all of that stuff built in :)
<bencrisford1> thats what im using
<bencrisford1> !seen sbalneav
<ubottu> I have no seen command
<bencrisford1> D=
<sbalneav> so activate the seen command
<bencrisford1> ok
<bencrisford1> (02:12:40) bencrisford1: Owner enable seen
<bencrisford1> (02:12:40) EduBenBot: Error: That command wasn't disabled.
<sbalneav> I'll be blunt: no one will ever use the math bit.
<bencrisford1> :P i will
<sbalneav> How much math you planning on doing here?
<bencrisford1> MathBot: calc 388888888888888888888888888888888888888889 - 388888888888888888888888888888888888888888
<MathBot> bencrisford1: 0
<bencrisford1> !seen MathBot
<ubottu> I have no seen command
<sbalneav> get the infobot + seen command going, you got a useful tool.
<sbalneav> if you get the google apps license key (free) then you can get the google command going
<sbalneav> which sometimes comes in handy
<bencrisford1> i have the google command going i think
<sbalneav> !google foop
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about google foop
<bencrisford1> EduBenBot: list
<EduBenBot> bencrisford1: Admin, Channel, ChannelLogger, Config, Herald, Misc, Owner, ShrinkUrl, Todo, and User
<MathBot> Announcement from my owner (bencrisford): Ill sort it tommorrow
<bencrisford1> :D
<sbalneav> If you're interested, I can mail you the config for my supybot that runs the ltsp channel
<bencrisford1> yes please :)
<sbalneav> or you could just do apt-get install supybot, which has all of that stuff built in :)s
<sbalneav> ergh
<sbalneav> But don't run multiple bots, or you'll hack off the freenode admins
<LaserJock> a seen command would be useful
<sbalneav> yeah, it's probably the single most useful command in the #ltsp channel
<NewbieBuntu> Hi
<asanchez> Morning everybody
<stgraber> LaserJock: ping
<stgraber> LaserJock: who did we remove from the team ? I'm a bit lost there because looking at the member list I can't really see what the CC is complaining about.
<stgraber> highvoltage: ^
<LaserJock> stgraber: I removed RichEd
<stgraber> LaserJock: ah, ok
<ogra> you should probably only have removed him from the admins and let him time out
<ogra> though i dont think he has any interest in staying on the team
<LaserJock> I guess
<LaserJock> I couldn't care less
<LaserJock> he was there because of his employment and when that ended he disappeared, he can easily be reinstated if he wants
<LaserJock> but yeah, I probably shoulda just dropped him from admin
<asanchez> Hi pygi, I don't see you at the second breakfast :D
<pygi> asanchez: second breakfast?!?!?
<pygi> you mean in the lobby?
<asanchez> yeah
<pygi> asanchez: coming
<pygi> if you need me?
<asanchez> Im at room 2
<asanchez> we are planing to use OSD notifier to show users info about syncing process
<asanchez> I want to explain you why we have to use syncing daemon
<pygi> asanchez: oh, koi
<pygi> oki
<pygi> we'll meet during the lunch, so we can sit at the same table?
<asanchez> yeah, of course
<pygi> asanchez: :)
<asanchez> I think its a good idea to lunch together as many edubuntu members as they can
<pygi> asanchez: yup
<bencrisford1> stgraber: I guess you won last night
<bencrisford1> i slinked off at about quarter past 2
<highvoltage> morning asanchez
<highvoltage> stgraber: I explained it in the mail I sent out, you're right we didn't deactivate anyone besides deactivating RichEd's EC membership
<asanchez> morning highvoltage
<asanchez> What do you think guadalinexedu team should begin to do for edubuntu?
<highvoltage> asanchez: good question. I think we should make a time to get together to brainstorm on that a bit
<highvoltage> asanchez: sorry for my laggy responses, I have to reboot every time my wifi crashes
<asanchez> I have to do the same yesterday
<pygi> highvoltage: we're doing that during lunch
<asanchez> Its possible to use one free room for the next session?
<asanchez> pygi, ok
<asanchez> highvoltage, are you using ath5k driver?
<highvoltage> oiuiooiu
<asanchez> today I don't have any problem with wifi yet
<highvoltage> oops, sorry about htat
<highvoltage> I'm attending the next session in room 11 (lts releases)
<highvoltage> asanchez: how about after the plenary sessions?
<asanchez> I want to assist to OpenUp Certification site session
<asanchez> after plenary
<bencrisford2> sbalneav: You around?  I played with the .conf a bit
<EduBenBot> Announcement from my owner (bencrisford): Hello
<bencrisford2> :D
<bencrisford2> "Seen" still aint workin
<bencrisford2> @list Seen
<MathBot> bencrisford2: Error: 'Seen' is not a valid plugin.
<bencrisford2> !list Seen
<EduBenBot> bencrisford2: Error: 'Seen' is not a valid plugin.
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about list Seen
<bencrisford2> $list google
<bencrisford2> $ list google
<bencrisford2> $ list google
<bencrisford2> $list Google
<bencrisford2> @list Google
<MathBot> bencrisford2: Error: 'Google' is not a valid plugin.
<bencrisford2> :list Google
<bencrisford2> ?list Google
<bencrisford2> !! list Google
<EduBenBot> bencrisford2: Error: "!" is not a valid command.
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about list Google
<bencrisford2> @ calc 2 + 2
<MathBot> bencrisford2: 4
<sbalneav> Morning all
<bencrisford2> morning
<bencrisford2> sbalneav: I got the google thing working i think
<bencrisford2> EduBenBot: list Google
<EduBenBot> bencrisford2: cache, calc, fight, google, lucky, meta, phonebook, spell, and stats
<sbalneav> EduBenBot: google sbalneav
<EduBenBot> sbalneav: Error: You must have a free Google web services license key in order to use this command.  You can get one at <http://code.google.com/apis/soapsearch/>.  Once you have one, you can set it with the command "config supybot.plugins.Google.licenseKey <key>".
<sbalneav> No, you don't :)
<bencrisford1> ill get on it :P
<sbalneav> What's your email?  I'll send you my bot's config
<bencrisford1> ben@freeyourpc.tk
<bencrisford1> :)
<sbalneav> Sent
<bencrisford1> ty
<bencrisford1> sbalneav: received :)
<bencrisford1> ?list Google
<bencrisford1> ? list Google
<bencrisford1> EduBenBot: list Google
<EduBenBot> bencrisford1: cache, calc, fight, google, lucky, meta, phonebook, spell, and stats
<bencrisford1> EduBenBot: google bencrisford
<EduBenBot> bencrisford1: Error: You must have a free Google web services license key in order to use this command.  You can get one at <http://code.google.com/apis/soapsearch/>.  Once you have one, you can set it with the command "config supybot.plugins.Google.licenseKey <key>".
<bencrisford1> EduBenBot: Seen
<EduBenBot> bencrisford1: Error: "Seen" is not a valid command.
<sbalneav> EduBenBot: seen jammcq
<EduBenBot> sbalneav: Error: "seen" is not a valid command.
<sbalneav> Still haven't got it enabled.
<bencrisford1> i swear i enabled it
<bencrisford1> i seriously did :P
<sbalneav> EduBenBot: status
<EduBenBot> sbalneav: Error: "status" is not a valid command.
<sbalneav> EduBenBot: list
<EduBenBot> sbalneav: Admin, Channel, ChannelLogger, Config, Google, Herald, Misc, News, Owner, ShrinkUrl, Todo, Unix, and User
<bencrisford1> EduBenBot: Owner enable Seen
<EduBenBot> bencrisford1: Error: That command wasn't disabled.
<sbalneav> Typically, if you want to send it admin commands, you need to /query it, so you open up a private channel
<bencrisford1> i do
<bencrisford1> im just showing that it dont work
<sbalneav> how did you install supybot? from the standart packages?
<bencrisford1> yeah
<bencrisford1> tsimpson told me to
 * sbalneav shrugs
<sbalneav> Hmmm
<sbalneav> +            if not self.client.dir_exists(dir):
<sbalneav> +                (src_client, src_address) = gconfsource.get_client_and_address_for_path(
<sbalneav> +                    os.path.join(util.get_home_dir(), '.gconf'))
<sbalneav> +                (dst_client, dst_address) = gconfsource.get_client_and_address_for_path(
<sbalneav> +                    os.path.join(util.get_home_dir(), '.gconf.xml.defaults'))
<sbalneav> I see no mention of the MANDATORY settings there.
<sbalneav> perhaps that's the problem.
<bencrisford1> uh?  Thats a bit complex for my tiny brain to process
<sbalneav> Well, those are the kind of problems we need to solve here :)
<bencrisford2> @ list
<MathBot> bencrisford2: Admin, Channel, Config, Math, Misc, Owner, and User
<Ahmuck> *yawn*, good morning
<bencrisford2> mornin
<EduBenBot> Announcement from my owner (bencrisford): Hey LaserJock :), do you want admin on the bot?
<LaserJock> not particularly
<bencrisford2> oh :(
<bencrisford2> i enabled seen
<bencrisford2> EduBenBot: list Seen
<EduBenBot> bencrisford2: any, last, seen, and user
<LaserJock> cool
<bencrisford2> EduBenBot: user bencrisford2
<EduBenBot> bencrisford2: bencrisford was last seen in #edubuntu 3 minutes and 10 seconds ago: <bencrisford2> EduBenBot: list Seen
<bencrisford2> EduBenBot: user LaserJock
<EduBenBot> bencrisford2: Error: I can't find LaserJock in my user database. If you didn't give a user name, then I might not know what your user is, and you'll need to identify before this command might work.
<ikonia> oops, thought I was already in here
<bencrisford2> sbalneav: EduBenBots had to go :(, he was breaking the rules apparently :(
<nubae> hmmm...
<sbalneav> Did one of the freenode admins tell you this?
<sbalneav> bencrisford2: Did one of the freenode admins tell you this?
<vorian> what?
<asanchez> Hi everybody!
<vorian> sbalneav: bots are more than welcome on freenode as long as they behave and are allowed by the channel owner
<bencrisford>  sbalneav: The ubuntu IRC ops
<vorian> they said only until they talk to laserjock
<bencrisford> Well, yes..
<sbalneav> That's fine, it's not me wanting the bot anyway.  bencrisford's trying to set one up.
<sbalneav> aaaarrrrgh.
<bencrisford> ?
<sbalneav> I don't think the patch that was listed in the sabayon bug site for the paneldelegate.py problem is really doing what it is supposed to be.
<bencrisford> oh :/
<bencrisford> who wrote it?
<bencrisford> anyone id know?
<sbalneav> It seems that it's hard-coded the copying of the gconf keys into $HOME/.gconf.xml.defaults, which works fine iff you blow away your gconf settings, and begin again.
<sbalneav> however, MOST people are going to want to work/update on existing profiles, which means they really want to go after the .gconf.xml.mandatory tree, but the patch basically eliminates that entirely.
<bencrisford> oh :/
<sbalneav> Sooo... back to square one.
<sbalneav> iow, the patch fixes the crasher bug, but eliminates the desired functionality.
<nubae> sbalneav: cant u take a snapshot and work off that?
<nubae> regardless off where its stored?
<sbalneav> Well, there's a fundamental difference in gconf between "default" and "mandatory" settings.
<sbalneav> "default" settings only affect new users: i.e. if they have no current gconf info on a setting, give them this as the default/
<nubae> hmmm, right, so as long as u pick one to work off....
<nubae> just needs to be properly documented, I think people wont mind it so much, as long as it works...
<sbalneav> Well, yeah, but sabayon gives you the option of marking any setting as either "mandatory" or "defailt"
<nubae> yeah, what I'm saying is, take that out, simplify it
<sbalneav> or, I could just fix the problem so it works properly :)
<nubae> ok, but that sounded really complex
<sbalneav> either way, it is.
<nubae> I just came from setting up wiimote with whiteboard software, and then used classroom presenter to be able to draw on top of presentations
<nubae> god it rocks... its like having a really big touchpad on the projector screen
<nubae> and it works perfectly
<bencrisford> yeah, we got them at school :)
<nubae> so for under 50 bucks u have a fully functional whiteboard which can accept up to 4 concurrent drawers
<bencrisford> LaserJock: My bots got me in trouble :S, so EduBenBot and MathBot are gone now :(
<nubae> u need to calibrate the smoothing but then it is really great
<sbalneav> sabayon's about 10k+ lines of python, either ripping out a chunk or fixing a chunk's going to be non-trivial.
<sbalneav> :)
<nubae> hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi all
<nubae> sbalneav: I hear ya
<nubae> but from the user perspective, it doesn't need to have every possible option
<bencrisford> LaserJock: Did you get that message about the bots - my internets dodgy :S
<nubae> why do we need more bots?
<bencrisford> we dont i guess
<LaserJock> bencrisford: yes, I got it
<sbalneav> Yeah, but we risk a divergence from other sabayons, if we only support mandatory keys, first question we'll face is "Well, on Fedora/OpenSuSE/Debian/etc. it works this way... why not here?"
<sbalneav> I should have a look at the debian packages, see if they have any different patches than we have
<nubae> well right now it don't work but on ubuntu ;-)
<nubae> :p
<LaserJock> sbalneav: don't bother
<sbalneav> Don't bother with?
<LaserJock> sbalneav: Debian is light years behind and as far as I can tell they don't particularly care for it
<sbalneav> ah, ok
<nubae> seems like a common policy across some of their maintainers
<LaserJock> s/care for/maintain/
<LaserJock> Debian is very hit-or-miss
<LaserJock> that's one of the reasons Ubuntu has team maintainership
<LaserJock> sbalneav: Debian unstable has 2.22.0
<LaserJock> though it might work because Debian's gnome is maybe less divergent than ours
<nubae> oh LaserJock, did I get membership yesterday? I wasnt around towards the end
<sbalneav> Well, I'm still hacking on it, gonna have to dig a bit deeper into the code.
<nubae> I saw my name being called this morning :D
<LaserJock> nubae: no, because we needed to have you there
<LaserJock> nubae: we'll schedule another meeting
<LaserJock> the CC is kinda on our back so we need to have formal meetings, etc.
<bencrisford> LaserJock: we could have one general meeting, one council meeting and one dev meeting
<bencrisford> say per month ?
<LaserJock> that's an interesting idea
<LaserJock> I'm not sure we have enough peope to really need to separate like that right now
<bencrisford> yeah, but thats what we can aim for
<asanchez> Hi erosa
<LaserJock> but it's a good idea for the future at the very least
<bencrisford> But at the moment we only need a generalised meeting i guess
<bencrisford> because there isnt much need for council meeting atm
<bencrisford> its not like there's gonna be many (if any) new member applicants soon probably
<bencrisford> and we only have 4 devs :P
 * vorian offers help if needed 
<LaserJock> vorian: does Kubuntu ever have problems with having ~kubuntu-members housing PPAs?
<vorian> LaserJock: no
<vorian> it was tricky when we had 3.5 and 4.0
<vorian> so the kubuntu-members-kde4 was created
<vorian> but now, you can have multiple ppa's
<vorian> but kubuntu has like 10 different ppas right now - it's getting hard to keep track of
<stgraber> highvoltage: ping
 * bencrisford might make an edubuntu poster... :/
 * Lns commends bencrisford for making a poster, as he is going to be making a t-shirt design :)
<bencrisford> nic
<bencrisford> nice*
<bencrisford> cafe-press?
<bencrisford> back in half an hour, then ill get cracking
<sbalneav> Hmmm, anyone know how I can register my gpgkey with an agent, so I don't have to keep entering it twice when I do a debuild -S -sa?
<sbalneav> Unfortunately, I picked a very VERY long passphrase
<sbalneav> and it's a pita to keep enterening it twice for every build
<vorian> sbalneav: devscripts
<sbalneav> So I just type "devscripts"
<sbalneav> ?
<vorian> no, you edit /etc/devscripts.cfg
 * vorian finds
<vorian> there are also other ways to do it, this is how I do it
<vorian> # GPG keyid to use (-k option)
<vorian> DEBSIGN_KEYID=(yourkey)
<vorian> it's like line 228
<sbalneav> Didn't help
<sbalneav> ah, well
<vorian> also, in your bash rc, do:
<vorian> eh, nope
<vorian> sbalneav: do you have devscripts installed?
 * bencrisford has an idea for a poster :)
<bencrisford> Lns: You interested?  Id quite like your opinion
<Lns> bencrisford: sure
<bencrisford> Well you know like the pictures you see which go from ape to modern day human
<Lns> yea
<bencrisford> like the "evolution timeline" sorta thing
<bencrisford> well i thought
<bencrisford> for an edubuntu poster
<bencrisford> you could have like a young kid playing on a computer
<bencrisford> then the kid gradually gets older
<bencrisford> and there you have it
<sbalneav> fixed it.
<bencrisford> something like that Lns
<Lns> bencrisford: sounds like a cool idea
<sbalneav> installed gnupg-agent, added "use-agent" to my gpg.conf file, logged out and in again.
<bencrisford> Lns: Might be tricky though :/
<Lns> bencrisford: yeah. Getting the actual art done isn't easy if you're not a graphics artist :)
<bencrisford> i do quite a bit of graphics
<bencrisford> but not so much recently
<bencrisford> i think ill start off with a different poster
<bencrisford> a simple one
 * Lns really likes the 3d tuxes over at http://tux.crystalxp.net/en.htm
<bencrisford> which just captures edubuntu cleanly, but i might work on the evolution one, it might even make a good shirt design
<bencrisford> Lns: yeah they're nice
<Lns> bencrisford: would you be able to work with those at all? For example, http://tux.crystalxp.net/en.id.1764-overlord59-tux-teacher.html
<Lns> I would love to have that modified so the eyes aren't crossed
<Lns> and maybe sitting down at a computer in a classroom or lab
<Lns> (and without the blue splatters...wtf heh)
<bencrisford> hould be quite straightforward
<bencrisford> ill get on it
<Lns> really?
<Lns> sweet!
<bencrisford> yeah, dunno about sitting down at a computer...
<Lns> well that was just an idea
<bencrisford> is that image freely licesnsed?
<Lns> the teacher tux thing though...that would go well =)
<bencrisford> yeah
<Lns> says 'gnu lgpl'
<bencrisford> oh ok, yeah i guess we can use it
<bencrisford> but if we do we better contact the original creator
<bencrisford> let him know
<Lns> I PM'd the author but i dunno if he speaks english
<Lns> waiting for contact back..
<bencrisford> im sure we have a few languages round here anyway
<Lns> did that yesterday
<Lns> ok..i'm afk for an hour or so, lemme know if you come up with anything bencrisford!
<bencrisford> ok sure :)
<sbalneav> Well, if I backout the paneldelegate patch, editing an existing profile works a treat. However, editing a NEW profile crashes the edit window, so it's likely just a case that initial .gconf.* structures haven't been created.
<sbalneav> bencrisford: edubuntu alread has a logo. It's the ubuntu "circle" with the one raised "hand"
<sbalneav> i.e. http://martinpihl.dk/words/imgs/edubuntu_logo.png
<bencrisford> i know
<bencrisford> im not designing a logo :)
<bencrisford> im making posters
<bencrisford> and modding a pic for Lns
<sbalneav> Well, sure, but if you're makeing posters, I'd have thought we'd want to stick to using just our logo
<sbalneav> as opposed to putting a bunch of other pictures on there.
<bencrisford> were going to stick to the logo
<sbalneav> ok
<bencrisford> but its fine to put other pics also
<bencrisford> a poster needs to be unique
<bencrisford> it could have a big teacher-tux in the middle saying "woot edubuntu"
<bencrisford> and the logo at the bottom
<bencrisford> and some links :)
<bencrisford> i made an ubuntu poster with no logo on, and its been surprisingly successful :/
<sbalneav> Whoohoo, made contact with Sayamindu in #sabayon on irc.gnome.org
<sbalneav> He's going to help me track this down.
<Lns> nice!
<Lns> bencrisford: I hope you aren't serious about the tux teacher saying 'woot' ... ;)
<Ahmuck> bencrisford: link?
<highvoltage> stgraber: pong
<sbalneav> Anybody in here interested in talking about what we want for ldap support?
<Lns> sbalneav: if you want a non-coder's perspective, sure
<sbalneav> Well, my opinion is that we should ship a meta package that sets up a "default" schema set + ou's on the open ldap server.
<sbalneav> So, we'd have 2 metapackages
<sbalneav> 1) edubuntu-ldap-server, which depends on slapd
<sbalneav> 2) edubuntu-ldap-client, which uses the authtool to point at a supplied server.
<sbalneav> Now that Ubuntu's openldap supports the cn=config DIT, loading the schemas we need, and creating the ou's can all be done in a postinst script.
<sbalneav> We can use the standard dc=your,dc=doimainname scheme for creating the entries.
<Lns> nice
<sbalneav> and if the network isn't sophisticated enough to have a FQDN, we can just default to "edubuntu.org"
<Lns> question: should we be naming this edubuntu-ldap-* ? Or would that be limiting the potential of its use cases?
<sbalneav> Well, in the beginning, we can name it that, and if it becomes desired to use it in a wider use case, it can be renamed.
<Lns> gotcha
<Lns> Obviously I'm sure TONS of people would want native ldap auth support
<bencrisford> Lns: I made some progress with the pic
<bencrisford> there is no paint on the techers overall
<bencrisford> and no background
<Lns> bencrisford: cool!!
<sbalneav> Lns: pop quiz: on your box, what does "hostname -d" return?
<sbalneav> bencrisford: you too.
<Lns> uhh
<Lns> domain name?
<sbalneav> no, I want to know what it actually returns :)
<bencrisford> nothing for me
<sbalneav> ok, that's fine.
<sbalneav> Lns: you?
<Lns> oh, heh
<Lns> LNS-localnet
<Lns> for me
<bencrisford> ben@ben-laptop:~$ hostname -d
<bencrisford> ben@ben-laptop:~$
<bencrisford> :( :P
<sbalneav> Hmm, so if you had an ldap config that had things like uid=lns,ou=users,dc=LNS,dc=localnet, and that happened automatically, is that ok with you, or would you want the option to plug in a "proper" domainname
<bencrisford> i wouldnt care tbh :P, not that i fully understand what you're on about
<sbalneav> bencrisford: We'd just default yours to "edubuntu.org"
<bencrisford> default my what
<bencrisford> what are we talking about?
<sbalneav> ldap config
<bencrisford> ok...
<sbalneav> directory for shared login resources
<bencrisford> right.   is this for edubuntu then?
<sbalneav> yes.
<bencrisford> for the project or the product?
<bencrisford> is this a feature for edubuntu or a helper for dev?
 * bencrisford is confused :(
<sbalneav> schools that have multiple edubuntu servers will probably want to have a shared login resource.
<bencrisford> yeah, ok i get it :)
<sbalneav> On later tonight.
<sbalneav> heading for home.
<bencrisford> ok
<bencrisford> bye
<bencrisford> highvoltage: ping
<Lns> sbalneav: sorry
<Lns> was on phone
<Lns> sbalneav: I think it would be ok, maybe if there was some sort of "summary" or something, and be able to quit out before it applies it all
<Lns> i know lots of people (myself) might want to change their "domain" before applying stuff like this to ldap, just because you throw it together...but that might just be me
<bencrisford> :( the username ben on launchpad is taken :(
<bencrisford> mines a bit boring atm
<bencrisford> what shall i change it to?
<bencrisford> :P
<Lns> heh
<Lns> bencrisford might make it streamlined =)
<bencrisford> streamlined? :/
<Lns> well, the same as on here =)
<bencrisford> it is the same as here :/
<bencrisford> :p
<Lns> i'm saying make your un on lp bencrisford
<bencrisford> it is
<Lns> well what's yer problem then?? =p
<Lns> oh you want to change bencrisford to something else
<bencrisford> yeah
<bencrisford> Lns: what do you reckon then?
<bencrisford> for a name
<Lns> eduBENtu? =p
<Lns> hehehe
<bencrisford> lol, i actually name some stuff ubentu when i cant think of a name :P
<Lns> ;)
<bencrisford> what about bmc?  or does that sound like the BNP?
<Lns> i think it sounds fine =)
<Lns> a name is just a name..it's in what you do that will make it famous ;)
<bencrisford> i already am famous thank you very much!
<highvoltage> bencrisford: pong
<Lns> =p
<bencrisford> highvoltage: Was gonna let you know that ive subscribed to your blog :)
<bencrisford> theres a new member of your fan club :D
<highvoltage> bencrisford: hehe :)
<highvoltage> bencrisford: maybe even the first!
<bencrisford> haha, i doubt it
<bencrisford> although the feed was somewhat hard to find
<bencrisford> i only managed it because I have a wp blog also
<bencrisford> there was no button i could see :/
<bencrisford> highvoltage: How would we get a bzr branch for marketing materials to be uploaded to
<asanchez> Hi everybody!
<Lns> hey asanchez
<asanchez> Hi Lns
<bencrisford> Hey asanchez
<bencrisford> Lns: Ive finished a bit of a draught of a poster im working on
<bencrisford> it doesnt look as good as i hoped
<bencrisford> and its a bit cluttered
<bencrisford> but im fairly pleased
<Lns> bencrisford: url me
<bencrisford> i was really pleased with my catch-line
<bencrisford> "Learn to love, and love to learn, with Edubuntu"
<Lns> awwww
<Lns> :)
<bencrisford> ill upload it
<Lns> makes me think of a big cuddly teddy bear :)
<bencrisford> bare in mind its blurry and fuzzy in places and needs work
<Lns> np
<bencrisford> its a bit cluttered small
<bencrisford> text too big one place, too small the other :/
<bencrisford> http://bencrisford.exofire.net/poster-temp1.pdf
<bencrisford> Lns: ^
#edubuntu 2009-05-29
<Lns> bencrisford: neat :)
<Lns> what do you want to use the poster for?
<bencrisford> :), dunno
<bencrisford> but i guess once we get a good stock of em
<bencrisford> for different age groups
<bencrisford> we can give them to local schools
<bencrisford> leave them in libraries
<bencrisford> give them to students
<Lns> what do you mean by "learn to love" ?
<Lns> how does edubuntu help you do that?
<bencrisford> learn to love edubuntu
<bencrisford> the little girl/boy drew a special pic of it
<bencrisford> learn to love by using this lovable software sortathing
<bencrisford> but im not sure what it means
<bencrisford> it just sounds good :D
<Lns> hehe =)
<Lns> i like it
<Lns> bencrisford: did you do anything else with that teacher tux
<Lns> ?
<bencrisford> not yet
<bencrisford> but he is free from the blackboard now
<bencrisford> and the paint stains
<bencrisford> Lns: ^
<Lns> cool =)
 * bencrisford posted the poster on his blog
<bencrisford> Lns: I'll see if we can get some opinions
<bencrisford> and itll be a good test as to whether anyone ever reads my posts :P
<Lns> bencrisford: what's your blog url?
<bencrisford> http://bencrisford.tk/
<Lns> thx
<bencrisford> but thats a free redirection url
<bencrisford> you can get the feed from http://bencrisford.exofire.net/blog/?feed=rss2
<bencrisford> Lns: I'm gonna call it a night
<Lns> alright bencrisford have a good one!
<bencrisford> :)
<bencrisford> c ya tommorrow
<sbalneav> Wonder how I'd go about building just a metapackage for the ldap stuff
<sbalneav> Looks like I can do pretty much everything with postinst.
<Ahmuck> where do we report ltsp bugs?
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: launchpad, as per usual
<bencrisford1> mornin asanchez
<asanchez> morning bencrisford1
<highvoltage> bencrisford1: since you're so eager to read my blog, would you mind reading this part? http://jonathancarter.co.za/how-to-spell-jonathan/
<bencrisford1> highvoltage: Eeek!  Sorry! :(
<highvoltage> bencrisford1: hehe
<bencrisford> highvoltage: "Johnathon (Comment not safe for a public page)" - is that the one i did :S?
<bencrisford> and I didn't know you were in to politics
<bencrisford> check out www.havingsomefun.net - its a politics forum i started with a mate
<sbalneav> Morning all
<bencrisford> mornin sbalneav
<sbalneav> Morning bencrisford
<bencrisford> :)
<bencrisford> sbalneav: I don't like my nick :(, what shall i change it to?
<sbalneav> What's wrong with your nick?
<bencrisford> lol, a bit too long and boring i guess
<sbalneav> be<tab>, not long to type :)
<sbalneav> what irc client are you using?  Does it have tab completion?
<bencrisford> pidgin doesnt
<bencrisford> but its not bad
<bencrisford> because i dont msg myself :P
<sbalneav> eurgh, pidgin.
<sbalneav> irssi for the win.
<bencrisford> ill swap to xchat
<bencrisford> but i dont like not seeing the user list
<bencrisford> quassels pretty good, but it appears in your hostname
<bencrisford> :/
<Ben> Isn't this a bit cooler?
<sbalneav> to see the users, all you have to do is just type "/who" in the channel
<bencrisford> i like to see it all the time
<sbalneav> Why? what's it buy you?
<bencrisford> nothing
<sbalneav> exactly
<bencrisford> im just like that :P
<sbalneav> save the screen real-estate for hacking :)
<bencrisford> :P
<sbalneav> one REALLY nice feature about irssi, being a text client, is that you can run it under screen.
<sbalneav> I run my irssi on my home box, under screen
<sbalneav> then, I can detach from screen with ctrl-a d
<sbalneav> go to work (where I am now)
<sbalneav> ssh into my home box
<sbalneav> and do a screen -r (reattach)
<sbalneav> very handy
<bencrisford> nice
<bencrisford> but what could a cool nick be?
<bencrisford> for "ben"
<sbalneav> there's absoluely nothing wrong with bencrisford
<Ahmuck> beniford
<sbalneav> Mine's just my userid
<sbalneav> I've had this userid for 20+ years
<bencrisford> im not all that bothered about my nick
<bencrisford> but my email
<bencrisford> and my lp id
<alkisg> (05:28:32 Î¼Î¼) bencrisford: pidgin doesnt => pidgin does have nick autocompletion
<bencrisford> lol, what button?
<sbalneav> It's the greek contingent! :) morning
<alkisg> Heh! Morning all (well, at UTC+8 at least...)
<alkisg> bencrisford: tab
<bencrisford> dont work for me :/
<sbalneav> so al<tab> doesn't complete to alkisg: ?
<alkisg> Write "ben", press tab.  You'll see: bencrisford BenoitStandre (it proposes 2 names)
<bencrisford> yeah :D
<bencrisford> alkisg: w00t
<alkisg> Write "benc" and tab => bencrisford
<alkisg> ok
<bencrisford> bencrisford:
<bencrisford> :)
<alkisg> You may even use it at the middle of a sentence
<sbalneav> Ben's discovered the joys of tab autocompletion.
<bencrisford> so a bencrisford isnt that bad!
<sbalneav> Now all we need to do is get him comfortable at a shell prompt, and teach him VI, and we can *make* a hacker of him.
<bencrisford> lol, i am comfortable with shell and vi :P
<alkisg> Another really useful thing is history... e.g. you search for X_NUMLOCK and it shows you all the times someone said that...
 * alkisg discovered that apt-get install vim-nox gives syntax highlighting in vi :)
<bencrisford> yeah its awesome :D
 * bencrisford cant get enough
<bencrisford> i dont use kate no more
<bencrisford> i only use vi
<bencrisford> so much easier
<bencrisford> saves me having several windows open
<sbalneav> I use vim-full, and I have a ton of stuff enabled.
<bencrisford> i dno what i got
<bencrisford> but its got a helluva alo
<bencrisford> alot*
 * alkisg mostly uses gedit :-X I love how you can delete a letter with a single keystroke ;)
<sbalneav> I've even got some macros that if I edit a file that begins with a shebang (#1) it auto chmod's the file 755
<sbalneav> you can delete a letter with a single keystroke in vi too :)
<bencrisford> yup
<alkisg> Sure... if you happen to be in -i-don't-remember-the-name mode
<alkisg> But if you're in edit mode, you're screwed
<sbalneav> it's backspace in edit mode, and "x" in command mode. Get with the program already: makes perfect sense :)
<sbalneav> And saving is ZZ
<bencrisford> sbalneav: lol, what do i need to learn to be made a hacker then :P, because im fine with shell and vi
<sbalneav> See how intuitive that is?
<sbalneav> I mean, geez, who *DOESN'T* understand things like :1,$s/Where[ \t\n]+art thou/Where are you/g
<alkisg> Well, vi saved me when I wanted to do some search/replace in binary files, so I can't hold these minor inconviniences like having to press 8 buttons to write 1 char against it... :)
<sbalneav> When I started using vi, I thought the designers were on crack.  It's.... an acquired taste. :)
<bencrisford> it sure is
<bencrisford> but it saves heaps of time when you're using svn or bzr
<bencrisford> especially if its a minor hack
<bencrisford> just vi file.cpp
<bencrisford> hackety hack hack
<bencrisford> Esc> :wq
<bencrisford> svn commit :D
<sbalneav> bencrisford: We got lots of open bugs: and things like screem really need new upstream versions.  Dig in.  join the edubuntu bugsquad team
<bencrisford> lol i couldnt package for crap sbalneav
<sbalneav> neither can I
<sbalneav> but I'm learning
<sbalneav> and lots of the bugs could just use triaging.
<bencrisford> i guess
<bencrisford> but for the next week or so im focussing on ubuntu
<bencrisford> so ive got as many contributions as possible for my membershiup meeting on tuesday :S
<bencrisford> but i guess these packages are ubuntu
<bencrisford> so ill take a look
<bencrisford> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ben  NOOO!!!!  the username ~ben is taken :'(
<bencrisford> how does b.e.n look sbalneav
<bencrisford> ?
<Ahmuck> brazen elevator nicknacks
<bencrisford> maybe not then
<bencrisford> ben.c?
<bencrisford> bc?
<Ahmuck> bouncy entropic nodes
<Ahmuck> bencrisford: b.e.n looks great
<bencrisford> seriously?
<Ahmuck> yes, i liked it when i saw it
<bencrisford> better than ben.c and bc?
<Ahmuck> it looks every AI
<bencrisford> for an email address though?
<bencrisford> b.e.n@e-mail.com
<bencrisford> bc@e-mail.com
<bencrisford> ben.c@e-mail.com
<bencrisford> which is best?
<Ahmuck> b.e.n@t.com
<Ahmuck> honestly, it's your choice
<sbalneav> Ah, memories
<sbalneav> http://mirror.facebook.net/cpan/scripts/infoserv/gopher/tools/gofinger.pl
<bencrisford> :P nice
<sbalneav> I got my first internet account in 1985
<sbalneav> when I was in grade 11
<Ahmuck> wow, your an old folger
<sbalneav> I'm 40.  Soon to be 41
<sbalneav> I'm an internet methusela
<sbalneav> I posted to usenet before 1993, but atm, I can't find any older reference to my userid (sbalnev) than that.
<sbalneav> after I graduated from the university, in 1990, the admin there let me keep my account for 4 years, since I had helped him admin while I was there.
<sbalneav> I was still posting from good old silver.cc
<nubae> vi or emacs... nano or gedit.... perl or php, ruby or python... the things wars are made of :-)
<sbalneav> the account I was given on an old dec vax runinng ultrix (dec's version of unix) back in '85 was sbalneav, and I've had the same userid since.
<bencrisford> nubae: sbalneav: Which out of these sounds best - b.e.n@e-mail.com, bc@e-mail.com, ben.c@e-mail.com
<sbalneav> I still have the cd from my first linux install.  I bought the "LGX" distro from Yggdrasil.  It's dated "fall '93"
 * Ahmuck was fingering uni's in 92
 * Ahmuck recalls yggdrasil
 * nubae was fingering other things back in 92
<nubae> :p
<sbalneav> bencrisford: what userid do you log into your computer with?
<bencrisford> it logs in automatically
<nubae> they weren't always in the computer lab
<bencrisford> but it would be bem
<bencrisford> ben*
<Ahmuck> was made in reference to sbalneav link
<sbalneav> bencrisford: I dunno.  Whatever you'd like.  If you ask me, I think you're spending too much time obsessing over it.  I spent less time deciding to buy my cottage :)
<bencrisford> :P
<sbalneav> pick one and be done.
<bencrisford> well i would love ben
<bencrisford> but its always taken
<sbalneav> how about just crisford?
<sbalneav> 8 characters, makes a good username
<sbalneav> fast to type
<bencrisford> hmm
<nubae> well, I always thank god for the tab key
<bencrisford> nah i dont like it much
<bencrisford> nubae: me too
<bencrisford> lol to type your name i just have to type nub :)
<sbalneav> Well, whatever, then.  I'm off to do some ldap programming.  afk for a bit
<bencrisford> k
<Ahmuck> bcrisford
<bencrisford> really?
<bencrisford> Ahmuck: I quite like it i guess
<bencrisford> i thought about it
<Ahmuck> sure, or first initial, middle initial, last name
<Ahmuck> but in the old unix world, it was normally first initial, last name
<bencrisford> bmcrisford sounds a bit crap
<Ahmuck> upt o eight char, but in todays world you normally see it more than 8
<Ahmuck> it's just a nick :)
<bencrisford> its important to me :)
<bencrisford> i think i'll leave it
<skipjack1> Hi
<Ahmuck> i'm on 9.04 ubuntu ltsp.  what do i need to do to back up user directories?
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: what do you mean?
<sbalneav> You'll need something to back them up on
<skipjack1> I want to copy my Personal Files (Windows Vista) ( Documents, PHP code files and some other text, xml, doc, excel and so on .. Files ) to my LTSP Server. I think I should setup before something else to get correct filenames and a correct charset, so that I can easly editing files under Linux (thinClient) and over Samba ( Windows XP, vista..) Some tips? What I should do before copy ( okay a Backup ;) )
<Ahmuck> no.  i can leave the files intact, as it's on a raided drive and partitioned.  however, when i tried this once before, it failed.  users were not able to access their documents
<sbalneav> skipjack1: the Ubuntu wiki has a samba page, it'd be a good place to start
<skipjack1> ohh okay thanks ;))
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: what did you use to try to do the backup?
<sbalneav> Did you use a tape drive? DVD? rsync?
<Ahmuck> i didn't use anything.  i booted to cdrom, and went from 8.04 to 8.10 before.  i left the /home partition as is.  however, after re-adding users, the users were unable to access documents.  i had to chown user:user on /home directories
<sbalneav> well, sure
<Ahmuck> this time i'd like to go from 9.04 to 8.10
<sbalneav> unless you added them in exACTly the same order, they'd be different.
<Ahmuck> is there a way to backup the user list and group list for a new install ?
<sbalneav> Absolutely.
<sbalneav> take a copy of your /etc directory
<Ahmuck> cp /etc/. /home/superuser
<Ahmuck> and then back ?
<sbalneav> then, after you upgrade, you can restore the /etc/passwd, /etc/shadow, and /etc/group files
<Ahmuck> ok
<sbalneav> You are backing up you /home files externally somewhere, right?
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: no, you never restore the WHOLE etc directory, as that could cause you problems.
<sbalneav> but you want to KEEP it just in case you missed a config file mod you made.
<sbalneav> but you HAVE to backup your /home files to a different machine.
<sbalneav> there's absolutely no iron-clad guarentee that /home won't get formatted on a re-install or upgrade.
<sbalneav> you could type something wrong
<sbalneav> there could be a bug in the installer
<sbalneav> cosmic rays
<sbalneav> kernel bug causes raid array to reformat
<Ahmuck> actually i'm not backing them up at all.  i'm leaving them intact on the drive in their own /home partition
<Ahmuck> yes, well, i'm a bit risky at times
<sbalneav> I'm going to be blunt
<sbalneav> if you upgrade a box without backing all files on it up
<sbalneav> you're being incompetant.
<sbalneav> If you made a mistake, and /home was erased, how much grief would that cause?
<sbalneav> back it up.
<Ahmuck> yes, i agree.  in the last the last 18 years i did make that mistake once.  i was eating supper and not paying attention.
<sbalneav> So if you've been a sysadmin for 18 years, you should KNOW you need to back up.
<sbalneav> Dude, don't cause yourself more grief than necessary.
<Ahmuck> i'm being lazy and impatient.  i agree
<sbalneav> Up to you
<sbalneav> if you restore the shadow file, passwords come back as well.
<sbalneav> make SURE permissions and ownership is correct when restoring.
<sbalneav> or a locked-out machine will result.
<sbalneav> Well, time for me to head home, pack up the fambly, and head to the cottage for the weekend.
<bencrisford> ok
<sbalneav> in 4 hours I'll be sitting on my deck with my wife and a beer
<sbalneav> and a burger
<bencrisford> awww
<bencrisford> nice
<sbalneav> on my 40 acres
<bencrisford> i have a 1000 word essay to write by monday :'(
<bencrisford> :P save me a beer
<sbalneav> or 16.19 hectares
<sbalneav> or 250905600 square inches
<Ahmuck> permissions and ownership?
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: yeah
<sbalneav> owned by root, perms 644 or whatever
<Ahmuck> i'd like to stay on 9.04, but it's wrought with problems.  i moved to 9.04 to fix my nic issue.  which appears to have done so
<skipjack1> hmm windows uses cp1251 charset?
<Ahmuck> k
<skipjack1> or. windows-1251 ?
<sbalneav> sbalneav@feniks:~$ ls -la /etc/passwd /etc/group /etc/shadow
<sbalneav> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root    948 2009-03-17 13:05 /etc/group
<sbalneav> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root   1.7K 2009-03-13 16:03 /etc/passwd
<sbalneav> -rw-r----- 1 root shadow 1023 2009-03-13 16:03 /etc/shadow
<sbalneav> passwd & group are root:root with 644, shadow's root:shadow mode 640
<sbalneav> anyway, I'm off
<sbalneav> see you all monday.
<Ahmuck> all my experience is on windows ... so i'm coming at the linux thing sorta new
#edubuntu 2009-05-30
<thadp> hey is edubuntu just ubuntu with more packages or is it a stripped down version of ubuntu with more educational apps?
<thadp> nevermind found answer of FAQ
<loic-m> Does anybody know why we add X-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain=tuxtype to package tuxtype but not for tuxmath? Both are in main.
<bencrisford> stgraber: ping
<bencrisford> anyone know what the bzr branch is for edubuntu-docs?
<bencrisford> im fixing a bug
<bencrisford1> highvoltage: Ping
<highvoltage> bencrisford1: pong
<bencrisford> highvoltage: I fixed a bug in a documentation package
<bencrisford> edubuntu
<bencrisford> saw you on the contributor list
<bencrisford> what do i do with my nice diff now?
<bencrisford> in fact, how do i make a debdiff :S :'(
<bencrisford1> I changed the wording of a paragraph in School Advocacy (edubuntu-docs) to fix a bug and now the motu recommend I upload it to my PPA and make a merge proposal
<bencrisford1> but I don't know which files to upload
<bencrisford1> just the .diff?  the .dsc?  .tar.gz?
<bencrisford1> or shall I just upload the diff as a patch to the bug?
<bencrisford1> =S
<bencrisford1> highvoltage, stgraber: ?
<LaserJock> Nubae: around?
<bencrisford> Hey LaserJock
 * bencrisford fixed his first bug
<bencrisford> and it was in edubuntu
<bencrisford> :)
<LaserJock> bencrisford: I saw you filed a bug on edubuntu-docs
<bencrisford> i didnt file it
<bencrisford> i uploaded a patch :)
<LaserJock> oh, I see
<bencrisford> i subscribed you because i thought you were the maintainer of the branch
<LaserJock> well, I don't think it needs any coordination with the doc team or translators
<LaserJock> but thanks for the fix
<bencrisford> :), it was really good to practice packaging
<bencrisford> cos it was just as simple as the example on the HowToPatch
<bencrisford> LaserJock: I noticed on the documentation team for edubuntu, the owner of the team - will something - i cant find him anywhere
<bencrisford> its like hes disappeared
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> he worked for Canonical at one point
<bencrisford> perhaps the EC should restart the team?
<LaserJock> but left over a year ago or so
<bencrisford> oh
<bencrisford> thats not good
<LaserJock> !gcompris
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about gcompris
<LaserJock> !info gcompris
<ubottu> gcompris (source: gcompris): Educational games for small children. In component main, is optional. Version 8.4.4-1.1ubuntu4 (jaunty), package size 457 kB, installed size 1568 kB
<LaserJock> bencrisford: so I see you had some fun with #ubuntu-ops the other day :-)
<asanchez> Hi everybody
<bencrisford1> "bencrisford: so I see you had some fun with #ubuntu-ops the other day :-)"
<bencrisford1> LaserJock: Err, yeah :/ :P
<bencrisford1> LaserJock: Sorry about that btw ;)
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: np, I didn't even know about their policy myself and I've been around for 4 years
<bencrisford1> ok :)
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: they told me to file bugs if I want more bot features
<bencrisford1> ah ok
<bencrisford1> How long do ubuntu membership meetings take these days?
<LaserJock> oh gosh, I have no idea
<LaserJock> I haven't been to one in years
<bencrisford1> stgraber: ping
<bencrisford1> ok
<bencrisford1> well, its just im 6th for tuesday
<bencrisford1> and i can only stay an hour :S
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: usually if you say up front that you have a limited time they'll try to make sure they get to you by then
<bencrisford1> Ok, ill make sure i let them know
<bencrisford1> thanks ;)
<bencrisford1> LaserJock: A core-edubuntu-doc team might be useful.  The team could have commit access, so it would be easier to fix bugs
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: well, I'm glad you got to do some packaging with that doc bug, I'm not going to be able to upload it
<bencrisford1> Ill talk to mdke :)
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: we don't actually ship the Advocacy Doc and we're not going to do an SRU just for that
<bencrisford1> ok
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: *but*, it really should go into the bzr branch
<bencrisford1> well im glad i got to do it, and im glad ive shown the world that bencrisford *can* package :D!
<LaserJock> unfortunately I've removed myself from ~ubuntu-core-doc so I don't have commit access to my own branches :-)
<Nubae> LaserJock: hi
<Nubae> wasss up?
<bencrisford1> LaserJock: If you had a word with the doc peoples they'd give it back
<LaserJock> Nubae: I wondered how big your Live Sugar disk is
<Nubae> 400m
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: well, I don't really want it back :-)
<Nubae> but we packaged pretty much everything
<bencrisford1> :P fair enough LaserJock
<LaserJock> Nubae: no gnome? just sugar?
<Nubae> so all activities, all of sugar
<Nubae> a lot of gnome too, since sugar relies on its backend
<LaserJock> do you use GDM?
<Nubae> evince, gstreamer, gdk
<LaserJock> or does it just boot straight into Sugar?
<Nubae> no gdm no
<Nubae> startx straight into matchbox
<Nubae> starting with 0.86 though, sugar moves to metacity
 * jussi01 waves to LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi jussi01
<Nubae> anyway, we've got it all working very nicely now... only activity doesnt work properly is Read
<Nubae> strangely it works on the full -edu dvd, but not on the minimal sugar live cd
<Nubae> I'm missing something somewhere, but not sure what
 * jussi01 sadly missed the meeting the other day, are there logs/summary around?
<LaserJock> Nubae: did you have to patch any of the non-Sugar stuff? like abiword or anything
<Nubae> still its not bad... Sugar is about 100 packages, and its being nicely maintained
<bencrisford1> jussi01: Should be on the mailing list ;)
<Nubae> yeah, we patched  a couple of things
<Nubae> but it didnt requrie much to get it all to work
<Nubae> its mostly out there already
<bencrisford1> jussi01: If you aren't a subscriber ill find the post in the archive for you ?
<bencrisford1> :)
<jussi01> please
<Nubae> patched sugar to work with small screens by setting it to 72% of its original size if res =< 600 height
<LaserJock> Nubae: so there's roughly 100 packages for Sugar? and we've got what, like maybe 20?
<Nubae> heh, I think we might have less than that, and there's probably like 150 when u count dependencies and activities
<bencrisford1> jussi01: What meeting would that be?  The council meeting or the one a week or so ago?
<Nubae> I packaged each activity as its own package
<Nubae> so activities alone there are 60
<LaserJock> hmm
<Nubae> then there are some meta packages that include a lot of stuff
<LaserJock> do you think those will be grouped together at some point?
<Nubae> like glucose (sugar foundation) and sucrose
<LaserJock> I would think most people would want to have the full sets
<LaserJock> yeah
<Nubae> we had to do patches for xulrunner
<Nubae> for gstreamer
<Nubae> for xypcom
<Nubae> for evince, abiword, python bindings
<LaserJock> so you have your own packages for those in the Sugar repo?
<Nubae> when I think of it, its a lot of work
<Nubae> yep
<bencrisford1> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2009-May/002898.html - jussi01: thats the meeting minutes for the one the friday before last
<Nubae> You can take a look at the X11: Sugar repo
<Nubae> that should contain a lot of stuff
<bencrisford1> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2009-May/002903.html - jussi01: thats the council meeting last week :)
<Nubae> and the .kiwi file describes the packages used to build the iso
<Nubae> let me see if I can give u an overview
<LaserJock> sbalneav: around?
<bencrisford1> jussi01:  they're the only ones i can find in the archive
<Nubae> anyway, we are pretty much done now, so if/when u like I can start with buntu
<LaserJock> Nubae: a first step could be to have oBS spit out source packages and just upload those to a PPA
<LaserJock> Nubae: just to see how it works out on an Ubuntu system
<LaserJock> Nubae: we can then refine them if needed and work on getting non-Sugar patches (abiword, xypcom, etc.) into Ubuntu proper
<Nubae> yeah thats where most of the work is going to go I believe
<Nubae> but... openSUSE is a geat model
<LaserJock> if oBS does a good job of spitting out source packages we could automate it
<Nubae> pretty much everything that could be done, has been done there
<Nubae> ok
<LaserJock> but if it's going to take tweaking a lot we'll need to fork it I guess
<Nubae> http://en.opensuse.org/Sugar
<Nubae> thats what we got
<Nubae> forking is going to be required I think, but come newer releases u can always join again
<Nubae> the debian maintainer Jonas is taking things much more seriously now
<Nubae> mostly because he sees whats been done with Mandriva and openSUSE, both distros didnt even have sugar a couple months ago
<bencrisford1> "drop by the IRC Freenode #opensuse-edu channel and talk to Cyberorg or Nubae. "  -- Nubae's famous :) :P
<LaserJock> righ
<LaserJock> Nubae: that's one of the nice things about FLOSS, sometimes people just need a kick in the butt from a "competitor" to get them going
<LaserJock> Debian (and hence most things Debian-based) tend to be not-so-quick with these kinds of things
<Nubae> hehe, yeah strangely that worked very well with Jonas
<LaserJock> but usually Debian is very good technically and very thorough
<Nubae> in the beginning he was like, nah, forget it, dont feel like packaging 0.84, not gonna
<Nubae> then around him stuff started moving, without him
<Nubae> and he quickly jumped the train
<Nubae> the sad thing is, in the process we lost the uuntu sugar team
<Nubae> *ubuntu
<LaserJock> well, hopefully if things can get back on track people will re-join
<LaserJock> but yeah, there's always these silly political things that happen
<Nubae> we'll see, I think it needs someone thats gonna be realtively permenant
<Nubae> and aploticial
<Nubae> thats what really put me off debian... the politics... otherwise it would be my distro of choice
<Nubae> fortunately, the negative parts of debian policy are left at the ubuntu door, and good parts taken
<LaserJock> luckily the groups I work with in Debian are pretty good that way
<Nubae> so we get a relatively forward thinking, yet still solid distro
<LaserJock> yeah, there's a place for both
<Nubae> openSUSE is just too wild in that sense
<LaserJock> politics isn't all bad in a way
<LaserJock> Debian has been a great place for thrashing out important things like "what is free software?", etc.
<Nubae> well, it has a place... but not in my world.. I rather spend my time working on actually getting the job done
<LaserJock> but for those of use that just want to get something done it's nice to have a place for it
<Nubae> don't be distracted by shiny objects... working code first! :-)
<Nubae> there is this new distro called tin hat linux... everything launches from ram.... so its blazingly fast... takes 5 minutes to start up, but after that its like the fastest distro u ever saw
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> how much RAM do you need?
<Nubae> 2 gigs
<LaserJock> not bad
<Nubae> but its been done for security reasons
<Nubae> so people cant run off with sensitive stuff
<Nubae> the speed is just an added benefit
<LaserJock> right
<bencrisford1> im gonna try and rescue my old laptop by installing xubuntu on it
<LaserJock> bencrisford1: what are the specs?
<bencrisford1> dunno LaserJock
<bencrisford1> 256MB ram
<bencrisford1> 20GB hdd
<LaserJock> you might want something even lighter with 256 MB
<jussi01> !fluxbuntu
<ubottu> fluxbuntu is a LPAE-standard compliant, Ubuntu-based derivative that maintains the goal of running on a wide range of mobile devices and computers (low-end & high-end). It is lightweight, swift and efficient. | Support Channel: #fluxbuntu on freenode | Homepage: http://fluxbuntu.org/
<jussi01> maybe?
<bencrisford1> well ubuntu just about starts on it
<bencrisford1> 6.10
<bencrisford1> but x doesnt always work
<bencrisford1> i think xubuntu *should* work
<bencrisford1> if it doesnt ill try fluxbuntu, thanks jussi01 ;) :)
<LaserJock> I'd go with crunchbang over fluxbuntu I think
<LaserJock> but that's maybe because I don't particularly like fluxbox
<jussi01> theres also lubuntu, but Ive not tried that
<jussi01> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lubuntu
<bencrisford1> oh i read about that today actually
<bencrisford1> :)
<bencrisford1> well the xubuntu install is going a helluvalot better than the ubuntu one went
 * bencrisford1 takes that back...
<LaserJock> are you installing via live CDs?
<bencrisford1> yep
<LaserJock> that's probably not going to work very well
<bencrisford1> :'(, i just want an ubuntu that works for it :P
<LaserJock> you want to use the Alternate CDs for installing
<LaserJock> LiveCDs take lots and lots of RAM
<LaserJock> I think Ubuntu's LiveCD needs ~ 384MB or so
<bencrisford1> lol i wish you'd told me that after i spent an hour downloading it :P
<bencrisford1> before*
<LaserJock> sorry, I just assumed
<LaserJock> I rarely use the Desktop CDs
<bencrisford1> lol, its ok :), no need to be sorry :P
<bencrisford1> im glad i have a xubuntu cd anyway
<Nubae> actually the specs make it a great thin client
<bencrisford1> Well i just spoke to the #lubuntu peoples :)
<bencrisford1> they say itll be better when its complete
<bencrisford1> so ill give em a hand with development i guess :)
<Nubae> either that or you use it to test edubuntu as a thin client :p
<bencrisford> If you guys were on the membership board, how many testimonials would it take on my profile for me to be considered would you say?
<bencrisford> LaserJock: Nubae: jussi01: ?
<LaserJock> hmm
<jussi01> depends on the testimonials, and content of what you have done.
<LaserJock> yeah
<bencrisford> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BenCrisford - LaserJock, jussi01
<LaserJock> bencrisford: btw, mdke just made a edubuntu-karmic doc branch
<LaserJock> bencrisford: so if you make your changes for the Advocacy doc there, and request a merge then you can mark that bug as fixed
<bencrisford> LaserJock: I was planning on uploading my patch to my PPA and them requesting a merge
<bencrisford> but i couldnt work out what to upload :(
<LaserJock> bencrisford: no PPA needed
<bencrisford> oh ?
<LaserJock> bencrisford: the docs are done in bzr
<bencrisford> yeah, but i wont have commit access
<LaserJock> the .debs are totally different in a sense
<bencrisford> the .diff was a bzr diff
<bencrisford> i got the bzr branch and then changed it and did a bzr diff to get the .diff
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> so make sure to do it on the new karmic branch
<LaserJock> and there is a specific syntax for bug closings
<bencrisford> so where do i upload the files, and what files to i upload? =S
<LaserJock> so in the changelog write what you changed and then do: Closes LP: bug #210771
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 210771 in edubuntu-docs "School advocacy wrongly speaks about Scribus being Illustrator-like" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/210771
<LaserJock> so email the .diff to the doc list
<LaserJock> asking them to apply it to edubuntu-karmic
<bencrisford> Ah ok
<LaserJock> bencrisford: does that make sense?
<bencrisford> yeah :)
<bencrisford> thanks
<bencrisford> LaserJock: edubuntu-docs_9.04.1ubuntu2.diff - an appropriate filename for the diff?
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> that's more like a debdiff
<LaserJock> you're just making a change, not an upload
<LaserJock> so I'd maybe name it something that describes the change
<bencrisford> well, thats what was on the packaging tutorial :P
<bencrisford> what do i call it?
<LaserJock> well, but you're not packaging
<bencrisford> :(
<LaserJock> you're more like making an upstream change
<nubae> god, right click and get terminal option is such a stupid thing, but its so incredibly highly useful for me
<nubae> in Fedora to open the terminal u have to go in the systems menu... its like totally hidden away... almost as bad as windows
<nubae> ubuntu is ok, but openSUSE makes it the most logical... right click on the desktop, get option for terminal....
<LaserJock> yeah, that would be nice
<bencrisford> i have a popup terminal thats on my awn
<bencrisford> its just like a little bubble coming off my awn when i click it
<nubae> right but I mean as a distro default
<bencrisford> yeah i know
<LaserJock> bencrisford: let me pastebin what I think your diff should look like
<bencrisford> ok ty
<bencrisford> nubae: You tried dos emulator?
<bencrisford> i can imagine windows veterans loving it
<nubae> dos emulator, in linux?
<bencrisford> yeah
<bencrisford> its like a command prompt
<nubae> well its useful to play some of those old adventure games
<bencrisford> and you can manipulate your ~ through it too
<bencrisford> i forot all my dos though :/
<nubae> dos is mostly useless
<bencrisford> yeah
<bencrisford> but its quite cool
<bencrisford> having the emulator
<bencrisford> it would be useful for windows veterans turned linux
<bencrisford> LaserJock: Is the one I uploaded to the bug not correct :/?
<LaserJock> it's ok
<LaserJock> I mean, technically it's fine
<LaserJock> it's just there's more to it in this case
<LaserJock> stuff that you wouldn't necessarily know
<bencrisford> ok
<LaserJock> http://paste.ubuntu.com/184540/
<LaserJock> bencrisford: ^^
<bencrisford> ty
<bencrisford> ill check it out
<bencrisford> LaserJock: I didn't go too far off track with my changelog as far as i can see :)
<bencrisford> mdke suggested I add the other suggestinos b the reporter
<LaserJock> nope, not at all
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I just saw his email
<bencrisford> oh :)
<bencrisford> was it to the doc list?
<nubae> so LaserJock, when do I get considered for membership again?
<nubae> btw, something like this is very relevant short term for edubuntu packages... so we can at least show the public that things are moving ahead: http://en.opensuse.org/Education/Applications/Desktop
<LaserJock> bencrisford: no, the comment on the bug report
<bencrisford> oh
<bencrisford> yeah
<nubae> nicely split into subject areas too
<LaserJock> nubae: yes, very nice indeed!
<nubae> including nice little icons for DE (desktop environment)
<nubae> good thing about opensuse wiki system is how easy it is to edit
<LaserJock> what I'd like to have is a place for everybody to contribute to something like that
<nubae> u should check that out some time
<nubae> right... it should be as easy as possible for people to add/rate.... Moodle would be one such way
<LaserJock> yeah, novell has probably *the* best docs and doc systems around
<nubae> but even that is too much work... it needs to be practically getting very little info, but allowing almost immediate contribution
<LaserJock> I don't find Moodle very easy
<LaserJock> I'd much rather just have a wiki page
<nubae> yeah its not unfortunately
<nubae> powerful, but steep learning curve
<nubae> for Sugar, they've taken out about 80% of its options
<nubae> yeah for this agreed, wiki page... but just overall, we should have as few and as simple tools as possible
<LaserJock> yep
<nubae> But moodle comes to mind becuase if properly setup its a one stop shop that is very inviting
<LaserJock> yeah, it's just not trivial for us to set up
<nubae> anyway, take a look at that wiki page, and we can probably rip most of it
<LaserJock> although with the Learning Project setting up an instance maybe there will be more moodle around Ubuntu
<nubae> well, otherwise we'll loose out to suse... where they set up Moodle for me about an hour after I suggested it
<nubae> am now populating it... so they've got their heads in the right place... once its done, I'll point u to it, so u can take a look
<LaserJock> well, I think openSUSE must not be quite the target that Ubuntu is
<LaserJock> for a long time we had a no-PHP policy
<LaserJock> and that's been slowly weakening
<LaserJock> but we still get hacked
<nubae> btw, u remember I did that desktop background with the penguins learning that polar bears are not food, but rather they are food to polar bears?
<LaserJock> oh yeah, I ran across that on my laptop just yesterday I think
<nubae> u still wanna use that for a release?
<nubae> its quite a funny one
<nubae> I ask because otherwise I'll give it to the openSUSE community, although I'd rather see it running on edubuntu
<LaserJock> yeah, we should do something with it
<LaserJock> well, can't both use it?
<nubae> I can jaz it up somewhat
<nubae> well, its more inline with ubuntu colours, and I was thinking about edubuntu when I created it, so default it will be edubuntu... but sure, people can install on whatever
<nubae> u have any suggestions for it? ideas?
<nubae> should I make a theme to go with it? splash, bootup?
<nubae> icon set?
<bencrisford> LaserJock: What should I call the .diff file?
<LaserJock> well, we need all of those
<nubae> the cool thing is I have one of those wacom cintiq tablets
<LaserJock> bencrisford: advocacy_bug210771.diff
<nubae> so its quite easy and lots of fun to create this stuff
<bencrisford> nubae: I'd quite like to see that background, have a link?
<bencrisford> LaserJock: ty :)
<nubae> so tell me in order of importance whats needed?
<LaserJock> icons are tough to get a full set
<nubae> bencrisford: let me check
<nubae> LaserJock: I know... but we can start via priorities
<LaserJock> wallpaper + gdm is most important I think
<bencrisford> I can help with GDM
<bencrisford> ive got a bit of experience
<nubae> ah yes... login... ok, will work on that next
<LaserJock> then gnome splash, gtk/metacity/compiz theme
<bencrisford> we could get an existing one
<nubae> bencrisford: oh ok.. perhaps u can port the wallpaper to gdm somehow
<nubae> LaserJock: u have a link so he can see it?
<LaserJock> one sec
<bencrisford> if we got an existing ubuntu GDM, and plugged the edubuntu artwork
<bencrisford> would be easier :)
<bencrisford> just need to change the .desktop
<bencrisford> of the existing theme
<nubae> yeah, the colour set is pretty much inline with ubuntu already... the wallpaper is made to evoke an emotional response of laughter, which I think it does quite well
<bencrisford> aww i wanna see it :D
<nubae> I wonder whether we can make mouse pointer set with a similar response
<nubae> so like the same teacher penguin pointing or something
<nubae> and instead of an X, u get a polar bear eating a penguin
<bencrisford> :P
<nubae> and instead of a tick mark, u get a penguin eating a tasty fish
<bencrisford> LaserJock: So I send the .diff in an email to the ubuntu-doc@lists.ubuntu.com
<nubae> it would make people laugh for sure
<bencrisford> but they would need to be big
<bencrisford> bulky
<bencrisford> so people could see whats in them
<nubae> yeah true... still a penguin pointing is possible
<nubae> just the penguins arm
<bencrisford> yeah
<LaserJock> bencrisford: actually, since mdke already commented on it, just attach it to the bug report
<bencrisford> ok :)
<LaserJock> hmmpf, now I can't find the wallpaper
<LaserJock> oh, I think it was in my email
 * LaserJock chuckles
<nubae> yeah need to upload it some place... but forgot my flickr user and pass
<nubae> we could do a set of funny educational ones like that
<nubae> one where learning math is important or there be dire consequences ahead for the penguin
<LaserJock> http://laserjock.us/files/edubuntu/penguin-edubuntu.png
<nubae> like 20 penguins + one seal, not so bad... 20 seals and one penguin not so good
<nubae> would just require switching the blackboard picture to make some more funny ones
<LaserJock> given that we're not stretched for space I think having some sets like that would be great
<nubae> maybe one can be a windows logo with an X, a penguin with a tick
<nubae> but we make the penguin a female ;-)
<nubae> that would have some internal humour to it
<LaserJock> nubae: I'd work with the Ubuntu Artwork team maybe a bit to get their input, etc.
<nubae> well, to be honest I think thats too much input, I was hoping just to throw some ideas around here
<nubae> and we can come up with something, then maybe after the work is done, pass it by the artwork team
<LaserJock> they're going to know more about doing the themes, etc. though
<nubae> but otherwise no work is gonna be done
<LaserJock> sure
<nubae> u know how it is
<LaserJock> yeah
<nubae> well the idea here is that it be an educational theme
<nubae> have u seen the opensuse-edu themes?
<LaserJock> don't go to them with "what do we do?" but I mean like having them do a review of it to see if they have any suggestions on improvement
<LaserJock> yeah, it looks pretty nice
<nubae> http://en.opensuse.org/Education/Live/Screenshots
<nubae> ah yeah will do that for sure
<nubae> in terms of, if I was to tackle icons... which are the important ones... whats on the desktop to begin with, and I guess file manipulation/navigation?
<LaserJock> yeah
<Svenstaro> Is UDS over now?
<LaserJock> yep
<nubae> and do we stick to traditional ideas for themes, what age target group?
<LaserJock> nubae: what you might do is do a review of icons to pick out ones that are particularly un-educational
<Svenstaro> No update on mailing list yet :/ Want to be updated
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: update of what?
<nubae> ah right... good diea
<nubae> idea
<LaserJock> nubae: some are pretty ok, but others would be good to replace
<Svenstaro> LaserJock, update on the official status of Eduubntu and UDS updates about Edubuntu
<Svenstaro> I really want to know where we stand.
<LaserJock> nubae: what I'd ideally like to see is an artwork package for each of -preschool, -primary, -secondary, -tertiary
<nubae> well if we think about the general idea being school books, pencils, crayons, etc... I'm sure with that in mind we can come up with something
<nubae> oh ok, makes sense... so maybe lets tackle that first
<LaserJock> yep
<nubae> wallpapers for 3 areas
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: well, there have been some updates throughout UDS
<nubae> so getting funnier/whittier the older u go
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: right now people are still traveling
<nubae> preschool has to be something quite universal, almost a foto I geuss
<nubae> guess
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: but is there something in particular you want?
<nubae> I think the existing one fits well with primary
<nubae> secondary need something a bit 'kewler'
<LaserJock> nubae: actually I would probably reverse it
<nubae> yeah see what u mean... tertiary is probably the most generic/boring
<Svenstaro> LaserJock, did Cannocials official stance change or is it still "Do whatever you want."?
<LaserJock> the problem we often had in the past is that secondary and tertiary educators feel the wallpaper is to juvenile
<LaserJock> they want a more professional look
<nubae> yeah, which is why we need the funny/whit aspect to it
<nubae> but thats just one side... I understand what u mean
<Svenstaro> Why wouldn't you want a multi-purpose skin/wallpaper anyway?
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: I've not heard anything from Canonical, I wouldn't expect to hear anything for a while
<nubae> well, thats highly individual I think
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: but it isn't terribly relevant for us now I don't think
<nubae> uni person does not want the same wallpaper as a preschooler ;-)
<LaserJock> right
<Svenstaro> LaserJock, so we are free to do whatever we'll come up with and use Canonical's existing resources?
<nubae> I wish ubuntu had a mascot though... like opensuse has the gekko
<nubae> we can do so much with that
<LaserJock> so giving people some age-appropriate choices would be awesome, IMO
<Svenstaro> Well make an Edubuntu mascot.
<nubae> ok, so well I'm gonna try making 3 more wallpapers for tonight... I have an idea for preschoolers that might work... based on creepie crawlies
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: well, we've pretty much always been free to do whatever we come up with, within certain parameters
<Svenstaro> Ok, what should I do now?
<Svenstaro> Get to know caspar?
<LaserJock> you can if you want
<nubae> Svenstaro: yeah indeed
<nubae> study the methodoloy of creating live cds/usb sticks
<LaserJock> I think we're going to stick with an Addon for Karmic
<nubae> and how to seperate components
<nubae> right
<Svenstaro> LaserJock, aw come on.
<nubae> we shold move with the LTSes
<Svenstaro> Karmic+1 is LTS?
<LaserJock> I think so
<LaserJock> it's every 2 years
<Svenstaro> That's in 11 months then?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> in 1 year
<LaserJock> bah
<LaserJock> sorry
<LaserJock> yeah
<Svenstaro> That's in 11 months then.
<Svenstaro> Okay, let's so we're ready for next bunch of Linux conventions, that'd be great.
<Svenstaro> LinuxTag, Froscon, Chemnitz Linux days.
<LaserJock> so I think we could maybe have some test disks for karmic that'd be great
<LaserJock> *if we could
<Svenstaro> To be honest, I don't think it would matter too much which release we'll spin it off from for now.
<Svenstaro> I will go with +1 for now, though, for compatibility.
<LaserJock> well
<Svenstaro> Is alpha 1 out yet, btw?
<LaserJock> I mean we have to test this stuff out *before* we get to the release
<Svenstaro> Right, I just finished RC2 of my current distro, so I have plenty of time for Edubuntu now. I'll get started right now.
<LaserJock> I'm guessing it's going to take quite some time to get everything worked out
<LaserJock> both technically and in trying to get the hosting put together
<Svenstaro> Are we going to use all the pre-existing facilities?
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> my rough idea would be to have the addon as official .iso for Karmic
<LaserJock> but have unofficial .isos available somewhere
<LaserJock> and for karmic replace the addon .iso with the full distro .iso/image
<LaserJock> bah
<LaserJock> Karmic+1
<LaserJock> I don't know if that's exactly what highvoltage and stgraber discussed or not
<Svenstaro> Do I get super-special-awesome rights on the Edubuntu Launchpad release team?
<LaserJock> there is no such team
<Svenstaro> Is there ANY active official team?
<LaserJock> for what?
<LaserJock> Edubuntu?
<Svenstaro> Yes.
<LaserJock> there's ~edubuntu-members, ~edubuntu-council, ~edubuntu-bugs, and ~edubuntu-dev right now that are active
<LaserJock> but in Ubuntu the release team is essentially centralized
<LaserJock> slangasek is *the* Ubuntu Release Manager, who oversees Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Edubuntu, Ubuntu Studio, Netbook Remix, and Mythbuntu I believe
<LaserJock> essentially anything that's on cdimage.ubuntu.com or releases.ubuntu.com
<Svenstaro> So if I were to build the isos, I'd report to him?
<LaserJock> well no
<LaserJock> he builds the isos essentially
<LaserJock> we can provide patches to the build tools and we determine the package contents of the .isos
<LaserJock> but the builds themselves, etc. are done by the Ubuntu release team
<Svenstaro> Duh :/ Makes it somewhat harder I guess.
<LaserJock> in some ways
<LaserJock> on the other hand, we don't have to worry about building things
<Svenstaro> Fair enough.
<Svenstaro> I wouldn't mind uploading 700mb now and then. Oh by the way, did we decide the release *needs* to fit onto a CD?
<LaserJock> it can't fit on a CD
<LaserJock> for a full distro
<LaserJock> I think 1GB is bare minimum
<Svenstaro> With LZMA it *could* but it would be somewhat slow for older system anyway.
<LaserJock> even with LZMA I'm not sure
<Svenstaro> But anyway, I like the idea of having some freedom in regards to space.
<LaserJock> but I'm just not sure how it's going to all work
<Svenstaro> In which regard?
<LaserJock> well, I'm not sure that the release team is going to like use duplicating 700MB worth of stuff
<nubae> well they wont, but others are already doing that
<LaserJock> I mean, there were definitely reasons we went to an addon
<nubae> ubuntu-studio comes to mind
<LaserJock> true
<LaserJock> so I think the key is to make the duplication worth it
<nubae> right
<LaserJock> I don't think Canonical minds hosting things
<Svenstaro> I don't really care too much about that, to be honest. I can host my own ISOs for now anyway.
<LaserJock> they just want it to be worth it
<LaserJock> it sounds like the addon .iso wasn't getting much demand
<LaserJock> and so they replaced it with Ubuntu Netbook Remix
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: well, for Edubuntu I think it's *the* biggest concern for the future
<LaserJock> I think having a full distro is going to be important, but if we can't host it it's not worth much
<Svenstaro> LaserJock, come again? Hosting ISOs is the biggest concern for us?
<LaserJock> I think it could be in terms of the future
<Svenstaro> Many people here can provide mirrors, we have bittorrent available to us, I have my dedicated servers, I don't think it'd be a showstopper at all.
<LaserJock> well, but we haven't had mirrors
<Svenstaro> Or am I missing something?
<LaserJock> and we still need Canonical to host the builds
<LaserJock> which I don't think is a big deal
<Svenstaro> Don't think too much of that, really. We can ask the usual universities for hosting as well.
<nubae> heh, what do u think about this for secondary or tertiary... penguin falls asleep under an iceberg and a seal falls on his head
<Svenstaro> We will use Ubiquity I assume?
<LaserJock> in any case, somebody needs to talk with the release team about it
<nubae> or maybe a whole load fish
<LaserJock> I'm not sure about Ubiquity
<nubae> so its like newton... but penguin based
<LaserJock> nubae: maybe, I'd have to see it
<LaserJock> ohhh
<LaserJock> heh, yeah, that'd kinda be funny
<nubae> tertiary could be einstein penguin
<LaserJock> yeah!
<nubae> discovering relativty or something
<Svenstaro> nubae, great ideas there.
<nubae> he could discover himself in an alternate dimension
<Svenstaro> A bearded penguin *shudder*
<nubae> well I'll get drawing.. The newton one will be funny for sure
<LaserJock> I'm kinda of conflicted about using a LiveCD for install or not
<nubae> whats more like an apple?
<Svenstaro> You could also have the usual atom-electron representation with small penguins orbiting the atom instead of electron dots.
<nubae> I want to make sure people get it
<nubae> Svenstaro: yeah, thats not too hard to do
<LaserJock> traditionally we've used the Alternate CD for installing LTSP
<nubae> and preschool maybe just penguins dancing around
<nubae> I'll see what I come up with, any ideas for alternative to an apple?
<nubae> I guess a big fish is the closest
<LaserJock> a sardine looking thing would maybe work
<nubae> yeah
<Svenstaro> LaserJock, we wanna make it worth it, don't we? Why should we keep it to Ubuntu alternate? I don't like that idea at all. This time, there should be a *clear* separation of Edubuntu and the rest.
<nubae> and he could have his mouth open... snoring like
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: right, there were just technical issues
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: nobody had yet been able to do a LiveCd install of LTSP
<Svenstaro> I'm about to figure out everything now.
<Svenstaro> We shall be the first men on this kind of moon then.
<nubae> ok, so bearded einstein penguin with atom-electron diagram showing small dancing penguins
<Svenstaro> nubae, more like electron penguins in "swimming pose" with their wings to their body, like they are diving at great speed
<LaserJock> initially I wanted to have 1 .iso be a LiveCD with no installer for demos
<LaserJock> and then have another installable .iso either as an Addon or Alternate Cd
<nubae> Svenstaro: yeah, and they could be like riding a wave...
<nubae> or particles
<nubae> :-)
<nubae> grin
<Svenstaro> Is there a post tertiary skin?
<Svenstaro> Could be string penguin vibrations or something along those lines.
<LaserJock> we haven't gotten to post-tertiary
<LaserJock> in face, we haven't even really gotten to tertiary
<LaserJock> I was thinking about the need to focus down to start with
<nubae> hehe, for preschool, we can play with the evolution theme, except from fish to man, we do fish to penguin
<Svenstaro> Should we really keep separating apps in that manner? No critizism, just a call to reflect on that earlier decision.
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: well, Jaunty was the first release to do that
<LaserJock> it's a common request that we make things more age-appropriate
<nubae> sorry ape to man becomes chicken to penguin or something
<LaserJock> and that people don't know what apps are for what ages, etc.
<nubae> I'm thinking of this drawing... the ape to men drawing: http://www.iconsofevolution.com/
<LaserJock> sure
<nubae> or man to penguin going via mermaid?
<Svenstaro> Ubuntu Christianic Edition will hate us.
<nubae> hehe, we do something special for them
<LaserJock> starting with a dinosaur might be better
<nubae> dinasour to penguin... hmmmm
<LaserJock> via chicken-looking thing?
<nubae> yeah or we could look for the actual penguin lineage
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: I doubt UCE would complain ;-)
<Svenstaro> You could have a bunch of penguin like creatures, dinosaurs with penguin features. A bit like "Homer Evolution", do you know that one?
<nubae> make it realisitic
<Svenstaro> LaserJock, but they certainly won't be happy :P
<nubae> so from bird dinasour to penguin
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: not necessarily
<nubae> terodactyl, via flightless bird (ostrich) to penguin
<Svenstaro> Baptism schools are not going to use Edubuntu hehe
<nubae> that has the fun of being kind of funny, but not too funny, and still educational
<nubae> ok, so got ideas for all of them now...
<Svenstaro> nubae, is that line actually correct then? Terodactyl to penguin?
<nubae> I'll post my drawings tomorrow
<nubae> heheehe... yeah it is...
<LaserJock> it's a cartoon, we can make it funny
<nubae> who is gonna prove me wrong :p
<LaserJock> that's right
<LaserJock> something like openSUSE's new theme would be awesome for tertiary
<nubae> http://www.geologyrocks.co.uk/system/files/u3/birdcompl.gif
<nubae> there's the actual line, so I may actually not be far off the mark
<nubae> :p
<nubae> hmmm so from velociraptor to penguin is not even that much of a stretch
<Svenstaro> Velociraptors OWN penguins :P
<nubae> well, we are gonna teach that penguins once WERE velociraptors :p
<Svenstaro> Anyway, do you guys reckon this is the right way to create a live medium for us? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomizationFromScratch
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> we have builders like I said
<Svenstaro> So where should I start?
<nubae> http://www.google.at/imgres?imgurl=http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_DiIjdY7RFr0/SOJR37MjjMI/AAAAAAAAA6E/E6RzsozZ67k/S1600-R/Penguin%2BDiversification.jpg&imgrefurl=http://penguinology.blogspot.com/2009/01/yellow-eyed-penguin-megadyptes.html&h=376&w=486&sz=63&tbnid=e9CE8ckt5IjThM:&tbnh=100&tbnw=129&prev=/images%3Fq%3Devolution%2Bof%2Bpenguins%2Bimages&usg=__va8DDYZVRB66IbdrPDDtLpnNdl8=&ei=T6shSsXVEpyOjAelrYnUBg&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=4&ct=
<nubae> penguin evolution
<LaserJock> well, I would have a look at ubuntu-cdimage and debian-cd
<LaserJock> and read up on seed management/germinate
<nubae> that is one long ass url
<Svenstaro> LaserJock, what kind of work do I need to do for the builders to work from? Can't I just create a script that does everything from start to end?
<LaserJock> umm, that's what ubuntu-cdimage is
<LaserJock> like I said, Ubuntu already has everything
<Svenstaro> The tool's name is ubuntu-cdimage?
<LaserJock> what we need to do is get the configuration stuff setup so that it builds a LiveCD rather than an addon Cd
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: let me give you the bzr branches
<Svenstaro> https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu-cdimage ?
<LaserJock> I think so yes
<LaserJock> it should get you ~cjwatson/ubuntu-cdimage/mainline
<Svenstaro> Can't find docs on it, is the included stuff enough to get me started?
<LaserJock> you also want the debian-cd bzr branch as well
<LaserJock> and install germinate
<Svenstaro> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/debian-cd/ubuntu ?
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> you want to read README and config/devel
<Svenstaro> Do I want to use anything pre-existing in the Edubuntu project right now or start over?
<LaserJock> well, a fair amount of it will use pre-existing
<Svenstaro> Where can I get the specific Edubuntu data?
<LaserJock> well, it's basically all mixed around :-)
<Svenstaro> So I'll start over?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> you just need to look at the edubuntu stuff and modify it
<LaserJock> you might start with grepping for edubuntu
<Svenstaro> Well, *where* is the Edubuntu stuff? If I have to hunt many different people to get the sources I'll just start over.
<LaserJock> it's within the files
<LaserJock> the debian-cd branch will be the most important for you
<LaserJock> ubuntu-cdimage is mostly for the download webpages, which will need to be messed with aftwards
<LaserJock> mostly just greping around for edubuntu should work
<Svenstaro> Does this mean I can not do my own images and have to rely on the Ubuntu release team to make them for me?
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> I don't see any reason not to
<LaserJock> and I doubt the Ubuntu release team is going to host something they didn't build
<Svenstaro> Well I want to rapidly test if I got it right. Sometimes I'm making three ISOs a day just for testing.
<LaserJock> right, ideally we won't have to worry about that stuff
<LaserJock> and all we have to do is worry about what packages are on the CD
<LaserJock> the idea here is that Edubuntu shouldn't be maintaining .isos
<LaserJock> as it's a resource sync
<LaserJock> and a QA mess
<LaserJock> rather we should focus on the actual educational stuff
<LaserJock> and let the release team worry about the builds
<Svenstaro> Huh? The ISOs are our only product, it's pretty much everything we have to care for!
<LaserJock> no it's not
<Svenstaro> Edubuntu isn't a project to care for upstream development.
<LaserJock> the ISO is our delivery device
<LaserJock> we have to maintain packages, fix bugs, etc.
<LaserJock> write docs
<LaserJock> artwork
<Svenstaro> Er. That's almost no work on our side then. If I wanted to test, then, I would bug a Ubuntu release maintainer *every time* ?
<LaserJock> that's a *lot* of work on our side
<LaserJock> much more than I usually can get from people
<LaserJock> an .iso would get built daily for testing purposes
<LaserJock> and then there's the testing for the alphas, beta, and RC
<Svenstaro> Do we have to care for upstream except for submitting bugs, of course?
<Svenstaro> As in, development of educational software?
<LaserJock> well, if we had resources we could where needed
<LaserJock> but 1st priority is putting the distro together
<bencrisford> When I typed apt-get install edubuntu-desktop it wanted to download something
<bencrisford> what would be downloaded with that command
<Svenstaro> Either I'm missing a big part, or that really isn't all that much work if the Ubuntu people take care of every technical aspect of delivery.
<LaserJock> bencrisford: everything?
<bencrisford> but presumable thats not a distro...
<LaserJock> well, it would be
<bencrisford> oh
<LaserJock> it was
<bencrisford> ohh
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: well, it is a lot of work
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: and for the last 2 releases it's been woefully inadequate
<LaserJock> there are lots of things that can mess up a build
<LaserJock> so we fix those, we make sure all the packages are in good shape and updated, try to fix as many bugs as we can, etc.
<bencrisford> well QA is the hardest thing to co-ordinate when making a new distro
<bencrisford> well not hard
<bencrisford> just hard to get people
<Svenstaro> It's hard when I can't even make my own images :/
<bencrisford> ill see if i can recruit a few bug-squadders to the edubuntu-bug-squad
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: no it's not
<LaserJock> you'll have an .iso every day
<Svenstaro> How do you check something work? I change something, hit build, wait 20 minutes, test it out.
<LaserJock> you test package on your machine localy
<Svenstaro> I do that many times a day with my other distro and it helps a lot. I have ADHD, damnit!
<LaserJock> either you're running the devel release or have a VM/chroot
<LaserJock> there's absolutely no reason to be re-rolling .isos more than once a day
<LaserJock> the .iso isn't a big priority
<Svenstaro> There's much that can break on the way into the distro, though. Aufs2 mount not working, squashfs not unpacking or broken, initcpio wrong, wrong modules compiled, etc.
<LaserJock> we just need to test it before a release (alpha, beta, etc.)
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> but that's all managed by Ubuntu
<Svenstaro> Wow, see, no work for us :D
<LaserJock> all that is Ubuntu's, we don't care about that
<LaserJock> no!
<bencrisford> Yeah, the less work the better
<LaserJock> Edubuntu is about *education*, not how to build a distro from scratch
<LaserJock> so there is lots and lots of education work to do
<bencrisford> we'd never have enough contributors to do a full OS well enough
<bencrisford> think how many ubuntu has
<Svenstaro> Well we won't be rebuilding every package for us. Only those education ones.
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> so we focus on the stuff we change
<LaserJock> we test to make sure that Ubuntu doesn't break anything, but beyond that it's just our packages we worry about
<bencrisford> Lol, this conversation is nearly an hour long, its like a mini 2/3 man meeting
<LaserJock> trust me, we will fill our time with that
<bencrisford> and more
<Svenstaro> Yes, because making .debs is unnecessarily complicated :/
<bencrisford> true, too true :(
<Svenstaro> Let's use PKGBUILDs :d
<LaserJock> it's not complicated, it's just got a learning curve :-)
<LaserJock> we've got ~ 30 packages and right now 0 people maintaining them
<LaserJock> so that would be, IMO, a 1st priority
<nubae> ok, so I have the 2 small penguin standing on top of ice berg dropping sack of fish on teacher penguin who is asleep below reading a physics book...
<nubae> think people will get it?
<LaserJock> hmm, shouldn't it be just 1 fish?
<nubae> yeah maybe
<nubae> ok, I'll take the others out
<nubae> but otherwise make sense?
<bencrisford> LaserJock: We need to organise some mentoring
<nubae> I mean I was thinking what instead of iceberg
<bencrisford> so devs can work on bugs *with* a mentee
<LaserJock> bencrisford: we need mentors first no?
<bencrisford> via gobby
<bencrisford> well theres the dev team
<bencrisford> most of them would be happy to
<LaserJock> you think?
<bencrisford> and sadly, there is just as many devs as people wanting mentoring
<LaserJock> of the -dev team 1/2 are not yet Ubuntu devs
<LaserJock> and the other 1/2 have very little time
<LaserJock> it'll take some work to get mentors ready
<bencrisford> hmm
<bencrisford> they dont need to be ubuntu devs
<bencrisford> but perhaps the edubuntu-dev should be a member of ubuntu-dev anyway?
<LaserJock> no, but I mean they're currently learning
<LaserJock> no, it would really limit us
<LaserJock> ubuntu-dev have permissions to upload
<LaserJock> I don't want to limit people that much
<bencrisford> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-dev
<LaserJock> perhaps we can ask MOTU Mentors for mentoring?
<bencrisford> that is our problem
<bencrisford> LaserJock: perhaps
<LaserJock> otherwise I really don't know who will mentor
<bencrisford> hmm
<LaserJock> stgraber and myself are the only ones who are at least MOTU
<bencrisford> wish i was motu :(
<bencrisford> maybe in a year or so :)
<LaserJock> you can get there
<bencrisford> contributing developer is my next big aim
<LaserJock> but yeah, it takes time
<bencrisford> but it would help if i was any good at development :P
<LaserJock> so I think we perhaps need to do a recruiting trip to ~ubuntu-dev :-)
<bencrisford> perhaps :)
<LaserJock> well, the nice thing is that there are lots of people who can help you learn
<LaserJock> I mean, I'm just a chemist
<LaserJock> I just showed up in #ubuntu-motu one day wanting to fix a bug in a chemistry app
<nubae> how about instead of an iceberg an igloo
<nubae> that will look better
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> but an igloo doesn't have an overhang
<bencrisford> maybe, if one leans off the edge
<bencrisford> the other holds his belt
<bencrisford> :)
<Svenstaro> Why can't Ubuntu development just be as open as Arch development :/
<LaserJock> it is very open
<LaserJock> but we have a lot more users than Arch, a more complicated package system, and largely higher standards
 * bencrisford wants to be developer, but cant develop for sh*t :P
<bencrisford> which is why i need to learn!
<bencrisford> i can just about hack my way around things, *just* about package basic stuff, so i just need practise i guess
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> learn by doing
<bencrisford> but i dont know where to practice
<LaserJock> in Edubuntu of course!
<LaserJock> :-)
<bencrisford> all too complex bugs
<LaserJock> you don't have to fix bugs
<bencrisford> i want to
<Svenstaro> Make a wizard that asks the users what they want to do.
<LaserJock> we need syncs and merges
<Svenstaro> Grab glade, python and gtk+
<bencrisford> syncs?  i only know one type of sink and im guessing its not the same one LaserJock
<LaserJock> heh, no
<bencrisford> i enjoy fixing bugs
<bencrisford> i had loads of fun with that documentation bug, even though it was so boring :)
<LaserJock> well, there's 2 basic ways we get packages from Debian, depending on whether we've modified them or not
<LaserJock> a sync  is done when we've made no changes and take the source package directly from Debian
<LaserJock> a merge is when we've got changes and so the package must be manually updated and uploaded
<LaserJock> both require a developer's signoff
<bencrisford> right
<bencrisford> and when we edit the control of debian packages, do we put the maintainer as motu or edubuntu dev?
<LaserJock> not MOTU
<LaserJock> either edubuntu-dev if we're claiming it or ubuntu-devel-discuss
<bencrisford> edubuntu dev?
<bencrisford> ok
<LaserJock> or wait
<LaserJock> edubuntu-devel
<bencrisford> ok
<LaserJock> the lists
<LaserJock> *list
<Svenstaro> Why can't we just use the upstream sources and make our own packages? It's no brainer for most projects. Grab sources, ./configure, make, make install and put that into the deb. No need to grab from Debian if their stuff is too old for us.
<bencrisford> so like - Maintainer: Edubuntu Developers <edubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com>
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: because it's not a no brainer
<LaserJock> bencrisford: I think that's what I did :-)
<bencrisford> ok :)
<LaserJock> traditionally we've just used the normal ubuntu-devel-discuss one for Main
<bencrisford> well if i get a point in the right direction, im normally ok
<LaserJock> but for ones that we're going to claim we should probably do so
<bencrisford> ok
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: we can certainly jump ahead of Debian if we wish, but it requires work :-)
<bencrisford> if i was to start working on a bug, and found the control had a different maintainer LaserJock, would I change it to edubuntu devel
<LaserJock> so we only do that when there is somebody to maintain it
<Svenstaro> Why is the simple approach too simple for Ubuntu :/
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: generally there are issues that come up, bugs, etc.
<bencrisford> not too simple for me :P
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: integrating it into the distro isn't always trivial, sometimes it is though
<bencrisford> Im gonna get some sleep soon
<LaserJock> it's not an Ubuntu problem, all distros do it pretty much
<Svenstaro> Well there are standard paths that work for most things where Ubuntu keeps to the unix filesystem hierachy, except for /var/www
<LaserJock> bencrisford: generally you want to go with what's already there
<bencrisford> i have 1000 word essay to write tommorrow - so i might not be around as much
<bencrisford> but i should get a minute or two
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: right, but you'd be surprised how many upstreams don't stick with the FHS, etc.
<LaserJock> bencrisford: the general mantra is "minimize divergence", that is, make your changes as small as possible to get done what you want to
<bencrisford> LaserJock: Ok :)
<bencrisford> !info gcompris
<ubottu> gcompris (source: gcompris): Educational games for small children. In component main, is optional. Version 8.4.4-1.1ubuntu4 (jaunty), package size 457 kB, installed size 1568 kB
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: if a simple ./configure && make && make install works we just go with it and it takes like 5 min to make the package from scratch
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: but most of the time it's quite a bit more complicated
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: and then there's backporting fixes, making fixes, etc.
<Svenstaro> I know, I'm dealing with those on a regular basis but so far there just was no package that would be utterly complex to create.
<LaserJock> no, it's not utterly complex
<LaserJock> it's just somebody has to do the work
<bencrisford> anyway night
<Svenstaro> Many packages broke with gcc43 but googling usually gets the fix quickly, so I'm confident.
<LaserJock> we've only got like 3 outdated packages right now
<LaserJock> but we've got almost 300 bug reports
#edubuntu 2009-05-31
<Svenstaro> See here http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?SeB=m&K=Svenstaro for packages I maintain in AUR. I think I got a fair amount of experience in maintaining packages so I should be able to handle 20 debs for now.
<LaserJock> yeah
<Svenstaro> Can the Ubuntu release team build iso hybrids?
<LaserJock> what do you mean by hybrids?
<LaserJock> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/multidistrotools/edubuntu.html gives the current version status of our packages
<Svenstaro> ISOs that are at the same time USB images.
<LaserJock> that I don't know
<Svenstaro> Ubuntu uses isolinux.bin, doesn't it?
<LaserJock> I believe so
<LaserJock> I gotta run now
<LaserJock> cya all later
<Svenstaro> bye
<BCM43> I am working two hours a week as the only tech support person at a NYC public school. I lately have been trying to convert the computers from windows to edubuntu. Does anybody have any advice on how best to go about this? I have done a few, and the teachers have liked it, but it has taken a long time per computer. How can I speed it up?
<Ahmuck> i'd wonder why he was converting over
<highvoltage> hey ogra
<highvoltage> back in germany?
<ogra> sure
<highvoltage> ogra: I've messed around with lxde and found that changing the wallpaper to the warty-final one and the icon theme to human and the launcher icon to an ubuntu icon can all be done within the lxde-common package
<highvoltage> ogra: I have updated files and know where they should go into the package, but I'm not sure how to do it the correct way. will you have a few minutes some time to provide some advice?
<ogra> well, we should rather create a lxde-common-ubuntu package or some such and leave the upstream defaults in -common
<highvoltage> ok that would certainly make things easier
<highvoltage> so would the lxde-common-ubuntu package rely on lxde-common and do diverts or would it just be something from scratch?
<highvoltage> hmm, some things about the lxde-common package aren't nice, for example, it actually contains an entire icon theme
<highvoltage> ogra: I sent my ideas to you in an email
<pygi> hi folks
<highvoltage> hi py
<pygi> highvoltage: I think I know you
<highvoltage> I hava a feeling that I know you too
<pygi> highvoltage: have time to talk on pm?
<highvoltage> for you any time
<highvoltage> (although I was planning to go to sleep soon)
<pygi> highvoltage: just 5 mins :)
<pygi> highvoltage: did you arrive home btw?
<highvoltage> ok cool
<highvoltage> I'm out of town for another 2 weeks or so but I'll be home later in June
<highvoltage> and you?
<pygi> highvoltage: oh! cool :) I'm in Hungary now, heading home tomorrow
<highvoltage> I saw the .broadband.hu domain name and wondered about it
<bencrisford1> hey pygi, highvoltage :)
<pygi> hi bencrisford1
<bencrisford1> pygi: I fixed my first bug the other day :D, and it was in edubuntu :)
<pygi> congrats
<bencrisford1> i feel a step closer to being part of the edubuntu community :)
<pygi> now its time to fix it my friend ;)
<bencrisford1> fix what pygi?
<pygi> bencrisford1: the bug that you filled :)
<bencrisford1> noo, i didnt file it
<bencrisford1> i fixed it
<bencrisford1> someone else filed it
<bencrisford1> it was only a documentation bug, but stilll... :
<bencrisford1> :P*
<nubae> hmm, anyone seen Laserjunk today?
<nubae> :p
<pygi> bencrisford1: oh
<bencrisford1> nubae: nope :/
<pygi> sorry, I've read wrongly :)
<pygi> congrats
<bencrisford1> :)
<pygi> nubae: what do you need?
<pygi> and I think he deserves to at least be called by his nick
<nubae> pygi: I was kidding
<pygi> possibly, but I don't like you (or anybody else) calling him that because he's the reason why Edubuntu is still alive
<nubae> kidding with the nick, not with wanting to talk to him
<nubae> well thats the beauty of a democracy ;-)
<pygi> democracy works only until a dictator steps up :p
<nubae> ah, u fishing for the position or what? :p
<pygi> no
<pygi> oh well, why do I bother :p
<pygi> (it was a lame joke related to something, but I'll be quiet)
<nubae> anyone know where I can get a .svg of the edubuntu logo?
<HedgeMage> nubae: No clue, but inkscape is pretty good at tracing raster images if it comes to that
<bencrisford1> nubae: I know ;)
<bencrisford1> nubae: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Official
<bencrisford1> theres all the official artwork in pngs and svgs
<bencrisford1> including kubuntu and edubuntu art
<nubae> HedgeMage: thats what I did last time, but its not perfect
<nubae> I have a relatively funny background I created... I'll try and upload some place
<bencrisford1> nubae: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuArtwork?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=edubuntu_logo.svg -- its there also
<nubae> got it thanks
<bencrisford1> :)
<nubae> http://imagebin.ca/view/NruW8HPE.html
<nubae> tell me what u think
<bencrisford1> thats awesome nubae!
<nubae> is it funny?
<bencrisford1> it would be even better if the text at the bottom was in the ubuntu font
<bencrisford1> it made me giggle :)
<nubae> yeah just did that
<nubae> looks better indeed
<nubae> check it out now:- http://imagebin.ca/view/Ty-Cg6M.html
<nubae> http://imagebin.ca/view/p6SznI3.html <-- thats another one in this series...
<HedgeMage> cute
<nubae> no buntu logo yet though
<bencrisford1> lol i love the fish one :D
<bencrisford1> nubae: thats funny on its own, but itd be really funny if we made them to into special characters
<bencrisford1> teacher and pupil
<bencrisford1> then there could be a whole series
<nubae> yeah... I have another one in the same veign... this one is the funniest I think... http://imagebin.ca/view/4ulQXk.html
<nubae> so I see the first one being for either preschool or tertiary, the fish dropped on the head for secondary, and the penguin school primary... whatcha think?
<bencrisford1> nubae: thats definately the funniest :D, that made me laugh out loud!
<nubae> last one is gonna be einstein penguin... basically discovering relativity... so a bunch of smaller penguins in an atom form
<nubae> so einstein penguin will have crazy hair and beard
<nubae> think it will be funny?
<bencrisford1> yeah :), cant wait :D
<nubae> All done in inkscape...
<bencrisford1> maybe a koala one
<nubae> I have a wacom cintiq tablet, which helps
<bencrisford1> nice :)
<nubae> hehehe, yeah maybe
<nubae> a koala would look more like Einstein indeed
<bencrisford1> i have a koala background, i made it myself
<nubae> so maybe koala being the teacher
<bencrisford1> was gonna submit it for karmic
<bencrisford1> but couldnt
<nubae> einstein koala, and in front of class again
<bencrisford1> because im not sure on the licensing of the photo i used as a base :(
<nubae> teaching relativity
<nubae> well, u should just try and modify as much as possible
<bencrisford1> i just changed the colours
<nubae> thats what I do... modify till its no longer recognisable, though the illustration stuff is all mine... basically traced from photos
<bencrisford1> so it was brown
<bencrisford1> well its been mostly cropped
<nubae> I like the evolution of the penguin one cause its so clean
<bencrisford1> and turned to a dark sepia
<bencrisford1> yeah
<bencrisford1> the photo i used would be a great base for a cartoon einstein
<bencrisford1> it looks perfect actually
<nubae> well send it to me
<bencrisford1> ill find a link
<nubae> I'll see what I can do
<bencrisford1> http://palaeo.gly.bris.ac.uk/Palaeofiles/Marsupials/koala.jpg
<bencrisford1> thats where i got it from
<nubae> hehe awsome... this one is gonna be the funniest
<bencrisford1> :P
<nubae> imagine him teaching class with a bunch of small penguins in an atom formation
<bencrisford1> :P
<nubae> in a jar or something
<nubae> and then him saying: "Relativity"
<nubae> will crack people up if done properly
<bencrisford1> yeah
<nubae> but most people react the same with the dont eat the polar bear one... laugh out loud... so it does work
<nubae> I wanna do an icon set too
<nubae> could also base it on animals
<nubae> koala would be for science based stuff
<bencrisford1> yeah
<nubae> ok, heres the newtonian one with edubuntu logo and shading... think it looks better? http://imagebin.ca/view/5Q_bRqWN.html
<bencrisford1> haha, yeah :)
<nubae> they're all still unfinished... I just want to make sure the ideas come across ok
<bencrisford1> im gonna get some sleep now :/, not getting back till late tommorrow
<bencrisford1> although it will seem early to the people in US
<bencrisford1> im in the UK
<nubae> k... thanks for spiriting me on
<bencrisford1> :) np, keep up the good work!
<nubae> I'm in Austria myself...
<bencrisford1> oh
<nubae> so I understand
<bencrisford1> well, night ;)
<nubae> yeah night
#edubuntu 2010-05-31
<mhall119> I don't get people who decide it's okay to criticize me for not including parental controls in Qimo
<HedgeMage> mhall119: Maybe one day I'll write up my speech on why parental controls are counterproductive as a blog post and you can link them ;)
<mhall119> I'll link to it
<mhall119> but people are seriously telling me that Qimo is useless because it doesn't have it
<mhall119> saying it's just "wallpapers and some other stuff"
<mhall119> that "other stuff" being, you know, the education games that make it what it is
<mhall119> you know, I use parental controls when my kids go online, it's called "daddy", and he sits in the same room as the computer while they use it
<mhall119> highvoltage: stgraber: do you guys get nasty comments about edubuntu not having an internet filter built in?
<highvoltage> mhall119: there's been lots of requests (and some work being done on it at some point), but not necessarily nasty comments no.
<HedgeMage> mhall119: I understand the need for it, as many schools, libraries, and other institutions are required by law to have them, but I don't see them as valuable in and of themselves.
#edubuntu 2010-06-01
<AlanBell> mhall119: completely agree with you on the internet controls issue
<AlanBell> the correct place to install controls is just behind the eyeballs
<bencrisford> mhall119: +1 from me too
#edubuntu 2010-06-02
<LedHed> I'm having trouble with LTSP clients and Compiz.
<LedHed> Is it possible to turn it off?
<LedHed> I set visual effects = none,  but gtk-window-deco keeps eating up my CPU
<alkisg> Good morning
<vmlintu> Anyone experiencing problems with nbd-proxy on lucid? We've been testing it and it seems to cause quite a few boot problems with some clients. The symptoms are that the boot process just hangs before login screen (something like half of boots fail). When nbd-proxy is taken out of the picture, there are no boot problems.
<alkisg> I'm having RAM problems with nbd-proxy, it needs 25 MB of ram and that's too much for thin clients
<alkisg> I wonder if we should at least put a kernel parameter to disable it... e.g. pxelinux.cfg/default: quiet splash no-nbd-proxy or something
<alkisg> Hmm or better, an lts.conf option. OK I'm gonna implement that, it's surely useful for 64mb clients.
<alkisg> Bah it's not possible to parse lts.conf before mounting the root fs, because getltscfg is not available...
 * alkisg wishes that getltscfg actually run on the server, and the clients only got the part that is relevant for them as a shell script with VAR=VALUE entries...
<alkisg> Or better yet that we ditched lts.conf completely and made an ltsp_client_config.d directory in /etc/ instead.
<alkisg> stgraber: how would you feel about adding a kernel parameter to disable nbd-proxy, while also disabling it by default for clients with < 100mb ram?
<alkisg> http://alkisg.pastebin.com/HnxZ5g6m
<alkisg> nbd-proxy here needs 23980 KB RAM while nbd-client only needs 1684.
<alkisg> ..and for maverick wouldn't it be better to send any nbd-related patches upstream, and completely ditch nbd-proxy?
<vmlintu> I didn't realise that it requires so much memory
<alkisg> For example, with nbd-proxy, I can't run gparted locally on a client, while without it, I can. (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/GParted)
<alkisg> (on an 64mb ram client)
 * alkisg also hasn't ever experienced the problem that nbd-proxy is supposed to be solving...
<vmlintu> I'll have to do some more testing with nbd-proxy and figure out how to disable it if it keeps causing problems..
<bencrisford> highvoltage: meeting tonight?
<highvoltage> bencrisford: yep
<bencrisford> :)
 * bencrisford runs date -u, he doesnt trust his brain to do the calculation
<alkisg> In 10 minutes?
<bencrisford> thats what I make it :)
<highvoltage> alkisg: yep
<alkisg> Ty
 * highvoltage is thankful that he doesn't live in a country with DST or anything weird like that
<alkisg> stgraber: hi, how would you feel about adding a (optional, of course) kernel parameter to disable nbd-proxy, while also disabling it by default for clients with < 100mb ram? http://alkisg.pastebin.com/HnxZ5g6m
<stgraber> alkisg: it wouldn't affect any of my deployments and < 100MB is probably < i686 so won't boot on maverick anyway ;) so I'm fine with that
<alkisg> Nice. Whoah, maveric won't support booting Pentium III's ?
<alkisg> (or even celerons, amd k6 etc...)
<stgraber> alkisg: depends, I believe most P3 are i686 but P2 will be unsuported and so are AMD Geodes
<alkisg> OK, P2's and Geodes are rare here, but celerons @300/600 MHz with 64MB RAM are too common
<alkisg> (more than 50% of our ltsp installations)
<alkisg> Thanks :)
<alkisg> Hmmm ok so we lose Pentium MMX and AMD K6, no big deal. Mendicino etc are i686, so no problem...
<alkisg> *Mendocino
<highvoltage> stgraber: p2 are i686 too
<highvoltage> alkisg: Pentium Pro and up is i686
<alkisg> highvoltage: I read that MMX and AMD K6 are 586
<alkisg> ...so we'll lose about 1 out of every 10 clients, not a really big deal... (considering that we'll keep lucid for at least 2 years)
<highvoltage> alkisg: yep, the old Pentium 1s before the Pentium Pros (that's about all the Pentiums slower than 200mhz) won't work
<alkisg> Some MMX that I have are 233 MHz and the AMD K6's are 300 MHz
<highvoltage> those machines are pretty badly supported atm anyway in terms of display cards, disk controllers, etc. imho nobody should be using them already :)
<highvoltage> alkisg: hmm, and the 233mhz ones aren't pentium pro yet?
<alkisg> The amd k6 boots ltsp 9.10 in about 70 seconds while the others on that lab (celerons @600mhz) boot in 60 seconds - so it's really usable, not a big difference from the others
<alkisg> It can play full screen video and everything..
<highvoltage> alkisg: at least there's lucid that's lts if you have to use old stuff
<alkisg> Yup, we'll be sticking to lts releases from now on - ltsp is in good shape now for us
<alkisg> (while in hardy it wasn't suited for greek schools)
<highvoltage> *nod*
<alkisg> highvoltage: need any help in that live ltsp script?
<highvoltage> lots of things have improved between hardy and lucid
<alkisg> E.g. we cold massively speed it up by manually appending the users to passwd/shadow... hacky, but it would save a couple of minutes
<highvoltage> alkisg: the plan is to convert it to a quickly application. currently it uses zenity which is very very limited in terms of functionality
<highvoltage> alkisg: I'm not at all against that. it's on a live system that gets trashed on reboot so I can't see why it should specifically be a problem
<alkisg> It could also be tweaked to work with single nic systems, and even in proxydhcp mode (external dhcp server around)
<highvoltage> alkisg: could even go as far as have the entries pre-defined and just use cat >> to add it to the passwd file, that would make it pretty much instant
<highvoltage> it does work with single-nic systems currently
<alkisg> We could add one user normally and then duplicate that entry - it should be quite portable and also instant
<highvoltage> (if you only have eth0 and it's currently configured then you can specify eth0:1 and it will work)
<alkisg> highvoltage: proxydhcp == without the ltsp server being the dhcp server
<highvoltage> ah right
<alkisg> I.e. when the server is wired to a switch and a router is around, which is a common setup
<alkisg> (otherwise the users would have to shut off the router's dhcp server)
<alkisg> stgraber: could we put ltsp-chroot to /usr/sbin like debian does?
#edubuntu 2010-06-03
<vmlintu> We are seeing some weird behaviour when nbd-proxy is in use. Disabling nbd-proxy and using nbd-client directly helps fix this, but I'm wondering what causes this to happen: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/589034
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 589034 in LTSP "nbd-proxy hangs the nbd-connection to server" [Undecided,New]
<vmlintu> Disabling nbdswap or changing flow control settings didn't help
<alkisg> vmlintu: stgraber gets here later on, maybe you should try again in e.g. 8 hours...
<vmlintu> alkisg: yep, my timezone isn't really compatible with US&Canada..
<LedHed> I built a fat client, then chroot to  /opt/ltsp/fat-i386
<LedHed> then apt-get install openssh-server
<LedHed> I also copy a couple scripts to /usr/local/bin
<LedHed> I exit chroot
<LedHed> then run ltsp-update-image -a fat-i386
<LedHed> when I boot the fat client,  there is no sshd nor are my scripts in /usr/local/bin
<LedHed> what am I doing wrong?
<alkisg> Which fat client how-to are you following?
<LedHed> alkisg, I'm using Ubuntu 10.04
<alkisg> Do you have 2 chroots?
<LedHed> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
<LedHed> Thats the howto
<LedHed> alkisg, yes.
<LedHed> initially I created an amd64 thinclient chroot,  and then I wanted to test out fat clients to I created another chroot of /opt/ltsp/fat-i386
<LedHed> the process I outlined worked fine on the amd64 image,  but no luck on the fat image.
<alkisg> grep nbd /etc/inetd.conf
<alkisg> What does that tell you?
<LedHed> on the server?
<alkisg> Yes
<alkisg> (or on a thin client)
<LedHed> 2000  stream  tcp nowait  nobody /usr/sbin/tcpd /usr/sbin/nbdrootd /opt/ltsp/images/amd64.img
<LedHed> 2001 stream  tcp nowait  nobody /usr/sbin/tcpd /usr/sbin/nbdrootd /opt/ltsp/images/fat-i386.img
<LedHed> it has both images
<alkisg> You're probably just sending the wrong image there
<alkisg> grep filename /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
<LedHed> I use a windows DHCP server,  but I updated it to reflect ltsp/fat-i386/pxelinux0
<LedHed> pxelinux.0
<alkisg> OK, so, grep vmlinuz /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/fat-i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
<LedHed> kernel vmlinuz
<alkisg> sorry, my bad. grep append /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/fat-i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
<LedHed> nbdport=2001
<LedHed> which was the fat-i386 image
<alkisg> so the complete line is: append ro initrd=initrd.img quiet splash nbdport=2001 ?
<LedHed> yes
<alkisg> Hmmm...
<alkisg> And, sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/fat-i386 dpkg -l openssh-server
<LedHed> its listed
<alkisg> And if you run that on a fat client you don't see it installed?
<alkisg> *without the chroot, of course...
<LedHed> 1 sec.  but I dont think so
<LedHed> claims its installed,  but I cant find it
<LedHed> nor can I find my scripts.
<alkisg> dpkg -L openssh-server shows you the files
<LedHed> lol.  I missed the capital
<LedHed> did -l
<LedHed> wow
<LedHed> scratch that,  its not installed.
<LedHed> I must have booted a thinclinet by mistake.
<LedHed> anyhow.  openssh-server is not installed on the fatclient.
<LedHed> dpkg -L openssh-server on the fatclient says not installed.
<alkisg> Erm, what? dpkg -l openssh-server show the version, and dpkg -L openssh-server says not installed?!
<LedHed> dpkg -L openssh-server returns  'openssh-server is not installed'
<LedHed> dpkg -l openssh-server returns  Name: openssh-server,  Version: <none>
<LedHed> ran uname -a,  and its running an i686 kernel,  so this is in fact my fat client.
<alkisg> OK because you said ==> (06:29:32 Î¼Î¼) LedHed: its listed
<alkisg> I assume you rebooted the fat client after updating the image, right?
<LedHed> alkisg, I think I goofed on that.  I ran  dpkg -l  and saw openssh-server,  and assumed it was installed.
<alkisg> Also, try to see if the date on `ls -l /opt/ltsp/images` matches the time when you run the ltsp-update-image command.
<LedHed> k
<LedHed> alkisg, I have a fat-i386.img.tmp,  would that indicate that the image update failed?
<alkisg> Possibly
<LedHed> when I ran the update it said that it was successful
<LedHed> maybe I updated the image wrong.
<LedHed> alkisg, ltsp-update-image -a fat-i386
<LedHed> I couldnt figure out a way to tell it what chroot to use, so I assumed that specifying fat-i386 as the architecture would work.  maybe I was wrong.
<alkisg> No you did it ok
<alkisg> Try this: mv the.tmp file to the .img file
<LedHed> its way too small
<alkisg> Ah
<LedHed> like 1/2 the size it should be
<LedHed> I'll update the image again and see what happense
<alkisg> Urm... it shouldn't say "finished successfully" if it didn't move the image
<alkisg> (I mean, by reading the code, it shouldn't be doing that)
<LedHed> it didnt say that specificaly, but I remember readign something that made me thing that it completed corectly.
<LedHed> alkisg, do fat clients auth against the server or the local passwd file?
<alkisg> While on ldm, they auth against the server. Later on (e.g. on a sudo call or for screensaver unlocking) locally, which fails because there's not shadow entry there.
<LedHed> humm
<LedHed> maybe what I should do is just build a diskless linux image.
<LedHed> might be easier
<alkisg> What do you need to do?
<LedHed> I have 13 diskless atom nettops
<LedHed> I want a desktop with a link to our Webmail and a link to tn5250.
<LedHed> should be identical for all the nettops
<LedHed> I only need 1 user account which should autologin
<alkisg> Why were you installing ssh?
<LedHed> so that I can remote to the nettops and reboot them if need be
<LedHed> or shutdown,  then to a WOL to wake them up at a later time.
<alkisg> ssh isn't a good method for that
<LedHed> alkisg, oh.
<LedHed> if theres a better way please tell.
<LedHed> the other thing is that the less dependent on the server the nettops are the better,
<alkisg> There are some methods outlined here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/
<alkisg> For shutdown, wol etc
<LedHed> they ultimately just connect to our exchange server and an AS/400,  so if the /home dirs and auth isnt handled on the server then the nettops could continue to run even if the server goes down.
<alkisg> But I didn't like any of those either :)
<alkisg> So we just developed our own scripts for controlling clients... unfortunately we didn't have time yet to internationalize it, it's in greek only: http://wiki.ubuntu-gr.org/sch-scripts/screenshots
<alkisg> Automatic client discovery, sending commands either to the system (root) or the session (user),
<alkisg> wol, reboot, logoff etc, viewing screens...
<LedHed> wow,  so you can remote view the clients, and shutdown
<alkisg> So if you don't mind blindly clicking on a greek caption, it can work fine for you.
<LedHed> :)
<alkisg> (or the toolbar :))
<LedHed> maybe I could google translate it,  :)
<alkisg> It also contains a wizard to automatically build a fat chroot etc
<alkisg> screen locking, sound on/off, lots of stuff there
<LedHed> thats cool. I wish I spoke greek so I could help with the translation
<LedHed> how are the /home dirs mounted on fat clients, NFS?
<LedHed> I must have screwed something up because now I cant login to the fat client.
<LedHed> after updating the image.
<alkisg> You can choose that with lts.conf, either nfs or sshfs
<alkisg> I'm using nfs because evolution doesn't run with sshfs, and I don't really care about the security implications
<LedHed> I havent created a lts.conf for my fat clients yet.
<LedHed> alkisg, any idea what would cause the fat client to stop authintacing?  I cant login
<alkisg> Try putting SCREEN_02=shell and SCREEN_07=ldm on lts.conf
<alkisg> Then, reboot the client, switch to vt2 with alt+ctrl+f2, and try to ssh to the server from there.
<LedHed> consequently, after updating the fat client image,  I can ssh to them now.
<LedHed> would be nice if LTSP supported building standalone images.
<LedHed> meaning that the client could stan on its own.
<alkisg> You mean without authenticating on the server?
<alkisg> and, how would the image be booted?
<LedHed> pxe
<LedHed> same as ltsp,  image resides on a tftp server
<alkisg> (nbd server) - so where's the difference?
<LedHed> no nbd,  entire image is loaded into ram
<LedHed> so a striped down distro similar to the LiveCD
<LedHed> gets loaded into a RAM disk on the client
<LedHed> then the client is standalone
<alkisg> And why would you need ltsp for that?
<alkisg> Just remaster the live cd to put whatever you wish, and serve it however you want...
<LedHed> just because I like the simplicity of the ltsp-build/update scripts.
<alkisg> And, if the server is needed to boot the clients anyway, why would you waste 1-2 GB RAM for the image and 5 minutes to boot the terminals?
<alkisg> Just to be able to disconnect the server later on?
<LedHed> shouldnt take 5 minutes,  a CD sized image should take less than 1 minute to download
<alkisg> Right, so for 10 clients, 10 minutes
<LedHed> each client has fill bandwidth,  so only about 1 minute per device
<alkisg> How much data can the server transfer?
<LedHed> the disks?
<alkisg> Divide that by number of clients * size of disk, to find out the minutes
<alkisg> E.g. 30 seconds for sending a cd to one client => 13 * 30 seconds for 13 clients
<LedHed> the chance that they all boot at exactly the same time is slim
<alkisg> Ah, ok then (I'm booting all of my clients at once)
<LedHed> my nettops are scattered over 1 sq mile (2.6 sq km)
<LedHed> so if I have to reboot the ltsp server,  all the nettops immediately fail,  which means I have to run a marathin to restart them all.
<LedHed> marathon
<alkisg> How much ram do they have?
<LedHed> 1GB
<alkisg> They'll need 1 Gb for the image
<alkisg> So there's no ram left to actually run the os
<alkisg> You'd need 2 Gb at least...
<alkisg> ...or some cut-down distro like DSL
<LedHed> not a big deal to upgrade the ram
<LedHed> DSL would work also.
<alkisg> OK, then you could patch the ltsp_nbd script a little, to download the image, and then mount it locally
<LedHed> I just need the ability to lock the user environment down.
<alkisg> It shouldn't take more than 1-2 hours to do what you wanted over ltsp
<LedHed> 1-2 hrs if you know what you're doing.  I do not.  :)
<alkisg> You could hire a developer to do the work for you, it should be much cheaper than the ram upgrade :D
<LedHed> true
<LedHed> are you such a developer?
<alkisg> moment, phone...
<LedHed> sure
<alkisg> LedHed: still around?
<LedHed> alkisg, back
<alkisg> LedHed: I'm talking to you on a private window...
#edubuntu 2010-06-04
<bencrisford> highvoltage: I fixed some docs stuff and pushed the branch to my lp, what branch do I propose a merge with?  the one owned by ~edubuntu-dev, or the one owned by ~ubuntu-core-doc?
<LedHed> is there a trick to getting the nbd-server service running?
<LedHed> when I 'invoke-rc.d nbd-server start'  it complains that it cant parse the config file,  but when I checked another LTSP server (where NBD is running) it lacks the /etc/nbd-server/config also
#edubuntu 2010-06-05
<mhall119> highvoltage: http://apachelog.wordpress.com/2010/06/04/fluffy/
<piyushmishra> hi is there anyone here with php/mysql experience?
<mhall119> yup
<piyushmishra> I am working on a site for promoting education in India at various levels
<piyushmishra> its free n its code is open in the public domain I am looking for some solutions and if possible some collaborators
<piyushmishra> I figured out you all must be interested in open source education based projects so I came up here to look for like minded people
<piyushmishra> I am looking to make an online whiteboard app for students and teachers to use. anyone has done that before?
#edubuntu 2011-05-30
<mgariepy> good morning everyone
<HedgeMage> hi, mgariepy
<stgraber> good morning
#edubuntu 2011-05-31
<mgariepy> good morning everyone
<dyllan> clear
<dyllan> hi guys. I made such a rookie error I accidentally deleted my /opt/ltsp/i386 directory I thought I was on a different server and was going to run the sudo ltsp-build-client --arch i386 command. Im so pissed off as this is a production environment im such an a-hole.
<dyllan> What kinda problems am i going to run into. Should i rebuild it with: sudo ltsp-build-client --arch i386
<dyllan> :(
<mgariepy> dyllan, do you still have the /opt/ltsp/image/i386.img ?
<mgariepy> if so you could simply unsquashfs it
<dyllan> hi mgariepy , yes i do
<dyllan> oh brilliant, so just unsquash it into i386 directory and ill be all set?
<mgariepy> yeah
<dyllan> ahh excellent, thanks so much mgariepy u saved me !
<mgariepy> running something like this: unsquashfs -d /opt/ltsp/i386 /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img
<mgariepy> you're welcome :)
<dyllan> cant thank you enough! :)
<mgariepy> dyllan, you just did ;)
<dyllan> ;-)
<dlbass> hello alkisg, I got the monitor issue fixed. The XFCE desktop is able to wrangle this old monitor and gpu combo.
<alkisg> Nice, though I don't remember the problem :)
<dlbass> lol, I suppose last week is a long time ago. Do you even remember me?
<alkisg> Yeah, and if you say which problem it was I'll remember quickly
<alkisg> It's just difficult to map names to problems after so many problems :D
<dlbass> Cool, it was getting all funky resolutions and being zoomed in and other such madness. Dell GX110 with old CRT monitor
<dlbass> The computers have Intel 8 something another gpu and Gnome does not like it! Xubuntu 10.04.2 works wonderfully. Well as wonderful as a 256mb machine can.
<alkisg> Hmm, ok, although changing the DE shouldn't matter for the client screen resolution
<dlbass> DE?
<dlbass> ooh
<alkisg> Desktop environment, gnome vs xfce etc
<dlbass> Ah, I just assumed it had a different driver.
<alkisg> The drivers should be the same, from the same repository even
<alkisg> Now compiz can make a difference (default in gnome, if the card supports it), but not with resolutions
<dlbass> Ubuntu 10.04.2 does not work properly with this particular Dell monitor on any machine at all. New-ish GX520 or old GX110.
<dlbass> The GX520 works great on LCD and newer CRT monitors.
<dlbass> The GX110 is picky about which monitors it will work properly on.
<dlbass> Do you think it might be a bug?
<alkisg> Yeah, in the graphics driver
<dlbass> Strange. Well, what I came in here today for is a wireless driver. I have a lab full of D-Link DWA-125 usb adapters. I tried a few guides on installing the driver from dlink using make and make install, but the adapter never powers on
<dlbass> i can see it when I lsusb
<dlbass> and after installing the driver it shows the possibility of connecting to a wireless network, but the adapter isnt on, so you cant
<jcbm> Hello everybody
<dlbass> greetings
<jcbm> Please have you worked with LTSP and usb devices
<dlbass> jcbm, Have you already looked here? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP
<dlbass> I have not had any experience with LTSP and usb devices, other than mouse and keyboard, but hopefully you will find something there.
<jcbm> ok dlbass, thanks by your interest
#edubuntu 2011-06-01
<dyllan> hi all
<dyllan> I am running the command: ltsp-build-client --arch i386 it runs and then starts downloading updates but fails at some point with the following error: Failed to fetch http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/s/sane-backends/libsane_1.0.22-2ubuntu1_i386.deb  Hash Sum mismatch
<dyllan> and error: LTSP client installation ended abnormally
<dyllan> if i run the ltsp-build command again it complains that the i386 directory already exists, so i have to delete it and start again. Is there a way to try again from where it left off?
<dyllan> is there any additional configuration needed to mount a usb digital camera via think client in ltsp? A flash drive works 100% but the digital camera is not even noticed ie. no entry in dmesg for the camera when its plugged in.. .
<cjohnston> highvoltage: ping
<cjohnston> or stgraber
<highvoltage> cjohnston: pong
<cjohnston> hey... https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+bug/776501  <-- I have a few bugs like this... Should I move them to edubuntu-website project or mark them as wont fix since they are beta links
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 776501 in Ubuntu Website "dead link - edubuntu.org" [Undecided,New]
<cjohnston> or move them to edubuntu and mark them wont fix
<highvoltage> cjohnston: yep
<cjohnston> to which? I gave three choices ;-)
<highvoltage> there's an edubuntu-website project in launchpad
<cjohnston> ok
<highvoltage> I think that will work best
<cjohnston> done. thanks
<highvoltage> and thank you! :)
<cjohnston> always happy to spam :-)
<highvoltage> I should probably pay some attention to my bug list some time this week too
<cjohnston> lol
<cjohnston> They are links to alpha's and betas.. im sure they are gone.
<cjohnston> can only have so much storage
<highvoltage> indeed. I guess the actual iso image site should have some page that says "Hey! The iso images you're looking for doesn't exist anymore, but you can click here and we'll redirect you to the final release"
#edubuntu 2011-06-02
<shazzr> is there a CD-iso available for Edubuntu, or do we have to use the DVD-iso?
<alkisg> DVD. Or install the edubuntu package over a plain ubuntu (CD) installation
<highvoltage> stgraber: so... will we release that image you tested as edubuntu Î±1?
<stgraber> highvoltage: yes, it's been approved for alpha1
#edubuntu 2011-06-03
<mgariepy> good morning everyone
<highvoltage> good morning
<stgraber> morning
<martsbradley> Hi folks,
<martsbradley> I've a bit of software I wrote for the mathematical order of operations, for example to illustrate that 1+2*3=7 rather than 9.
<martsbradley> A video of its available at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xc9cu-ekFrg
<martsbradley> Is it worth packaging it and putting it into ubuntu?  I've got all the source code, its written in wx widgets and is all my own code.
<martsbradley> ?
<highvoltage> hi martsbradley
<martsbradley> Hi Highvoltage
<highvoltage> it looks like it could be useful to someone, so why not :)
<alkisg> martsbradley: just an idea, if you could make it show infix/postfix etc notations with that tree, I'm sure it would be useful to some CS students
<highvoltage> martsbradley: what does it do with http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/48293/ ? :)
<martsbradley> I'll boot up my other computer and try it out.
<highvoltage> martsbradley: but yes, I think it would be nice, and if it's stable and not otherwise troublesome we'd probably include it in edubuntu too.
<martsbradley> 288 it gives
<martsbradley> It had a little problem with the 2(9, it did not recognise it as a multiply so had to insert the * between the 2 and the opening bracket
<martsbradley> Is 288 the expected answer, I'm sure it is but I'm no math teacher.
<highvoltage> ah see the way I was taught in school "48 / 2(9+3)" and "48 / 2 * (9+3)" would give different answers. but I guess that's one of the sucky things about differences in math across different regions that that post highlights
<martsbradley> I was taught that the 2(9+3) means add 9 & 3 then multiply by 2, even though the multiply operator was omitted.
<highvoltage> martsbradley: yep, same here.
<highvoltage> and if you do that then you get to the answer "2"
<martsbradley> I was taught by the BODMAS expression, brackets order division multiply add subtract it stands for, therefore the brackets come first, so 9+3 =12
<martsbradley> Then 48 /2
<martsbradley> 24 * 12 must be 288
<highvoltage> oopes, I meant 24 instead of 2
<highvoltage> (man that chapaign we had at work went straight to my head)
<martsbradley> Lucky u.
<martsbradley> So we agree 288 is correct answer.
<highvoltage> well...
<highvoltage> ...
<highvoltage> that's debatable depending on how you were taught
<highvoltage> but I think it's the right answer for your software to give
<martsbradley> I think that Ireland and America is taught in same way, not sure about Europe + rest of world.
<highvoltage> oh no, I was right first time, I would end up with 2 as the answer
<highvoltage> (Implied multiplication)
<highvoltage> 48 Ã· 2(9+3)=
<highvoltage> 48 Ã· 2(12)=
<highvoltage> 48 Ã· 24=
<highvoltage> 2
<martsbradley> I'll look at that page to see what they came up with
<highvoltage> yeah I'm no mathemetician either. but I just think it would be nice if your software could be aware of these kind of things. just as a wish list :)
<martsbradley> Yea they have two different answers also, not good.  I thought mathematics was the 'universal language'
<highvoltage> heh, yeah it has some similar problems as natural languages though. in some areas other conventions were formed so some expressions mean different things
<highvoltage> that's why different calculators also give different answers for the same equation
<martsbradley> ok thanks for the help, bye.
<highvoltage> bye!
#edubuntu 2012-05-28
<highvoltage> stgraber: any suggestions on how we should get rid of the akonaditray menu entry?
<highvoltage> I think we used to have something in the livesystem postrm (or maybe artwork postinst) that used to add a hidden=true in the .desktop file
<highvoltage> but it doesn't seem to do that anymore and I remember you mentioned that there's a good way to hide them
<stgraber> I think we ship a few .desktop overlay in -live or -artwork
<alkisg> dpkg-divert?
<alkisg> Ah, only on the live system?
<highvoltage> alkisg: on the installed system too, although we try to avoid dpkg-divert if at all possible
<stgraber> also post install, we just dump a .desktop in a path that's higher priority than kde's
<highvoltage> where does the priority come from?
<alkisg> highvoltage: modifying another package's file is worse than dpkg-divert, and it doesn't persist on package updates
 * highvoltage checks the package again
<stgraber> alkisg: we don't modify it, we write an identically named file in an higher priority location and let xdg deal with the override
<alkisg> Cool
<highvoltage> alkisg: I know
<alkisg> stgraber: any thoughts about when you'll have some time for the ltsp packaging? I tested with my local debian/ dir and it works fine, but I'd like to test with the Ubuntu packaging too...
<stgraber> no, it's pretty low on my priority list, sorry
<highvoltage> stgraber: I can't find that anywhere in the packaging though, perhaps it got lost with some cleanup (since the akonadi icons are back again)
<stgraber> stgraber@castiana:~/Desktop/edu$ find . | grep desktop
<stgraber> ./edubuntu-artwork-12.04.1/applications/kde4-nepomukcontroller.desktop
<stgraber> ./edubuntu-artwork-12.04.1/applications/kde4-nepomukbackup.desktop
<stgraber> highvoltage: ^
<highvoltage> (d'oh, just found them there)
<highvoltage> ah nepomuk is there but not akonadi, I guess I'll add it
<highvoltage> I just add a line that says "OnlyShowIn=KDE" and put it in that directory?
<stgraber> yep
<stgraber> if you have some spare time, you might try and poke the kde folks to include these by default
<alkisg> stgraber: np, I just thought you'd like me to test the LTSP you'll ship with 12.10 (since I won't be able to test later on until 14.04 again)...
<stgraber> so we don't have to override them :)
<highvoltage> stgraber: yes I think that's a good idea
<stgraber> alkisg: sure, but I'm focusing on 12.04.1 for the next 2 months, so my 12.10 time is pretty limited
<alkisg> Do you think it'd take more than 10 minutes to approve the changes?
<alkisg> ...and maybe do the ltsp-live changes you mentioned
<stgraber> ltsp-live changes will take a day to babysit through the archive as it'll require source+bin newing + seed change + dvd rebuild, so yeah, closer to 1-2 days than 10min
<alkisg> From the ltsp package side, you'll just remove them though, no?
<alkisg> You don't need to have the ltsp-live package to review the ltsp debian/ dir... Or I got it wrong?
<stgraber> I want to spend 1-2 days on LTSP and be done for the next 6 months ;) context-switching is very expensive. So maybe I don't need ltsp-live to review debian/, I don't know and I don't want to think about it now :)
<highvoltage> hmm, nepomuk also still shows under the menus despite OnlyShowIn=KDE
<alkisg> OK, thank you :)
<highvoltage> heh, we have kturtle in the ubuntu-edu-tertiary package
<highvoltage> (I guess it might be useful there in some cases)
<highvoltage> stgraber: fyi (but no rush): https://code.launchpad.net/~jonathan/ubuntu-seeds/edubuntu.quantal/+merge/107679
<stgraber> highvoltage: am I reading this right? we'd have kstarts+stellarium?
<highvoltage> stgraber: at least for now, I guess there's a good chance that we'll drop stellarium due to the arm issues, and our intent to have the same packages installed accross architectures
<highvoltage> perhaps I should have removed stellarium already... but it's not the last package changes for the cycle for sure
<highvoltage> stgraber: regarding ltsp-live, should I wait until it's removed from ltsp before making changes, or should I do it while it's in ltsp, or should I be the one moving it?
<stgraber> highvoltage: feel free to propose changes against ubuntu:ltsp for now, I'll merge them before the split
<highvoltage> stgraber: ok, at least that way I get in some ltsp commits too :)
<highvoltage> (oh, not really)
<highvoltage> stgraber: actually I'm not sure what to do, ubuntu:ltsp? is that what I get with pull-lp-source?
<stgraber> it should be
<stgraber> highvoltage: bzr branch ubuntu:ltsp => do your change => bzr push lp:~jonathan/ubuntu/quantal/ltsp/your-change => bzr lp-propose-merge
<highvoltage> stgraber: ok, got it
<highvoltage> https://code.launchpad.net/~jonathan/ubuntu/quantal/ltsp/autologin/+merge/107682
<stgraber> highvoltage: I think I understand the bug where unity 3d doesn't start on 3d capable hardware, it's because DESKTOP_SESSION isn't set by ldm
<stgraber> so the gconf configuration overlay for unity never gets applied
<stgraber> and the unity plugin is never loaded as a result
<stgraber> the fix is quite hackish though and will be Ubuntu specific as DESKTOP_SESSION needs to be set to the name of the gnome-session that will be called, but you have no way to know that in a non-distro specific way as gnome-session's default is hardcoded in the binary...
<highvoltage> stgraber: ah
<stgraber> I wrote an Xsession script that I think does the right thing for Ubuntu and will have to be shipped on both client and server as it affects both thin and fat clients
<highvoltage> I'm not sure why the script in the unity .desktop file can't set it, but I guess you could show me a bit later on then I'll understand what you mean
<stgraber> because it needs to run before any gconf instance might be called. Doing it from the .desktop launcher would be racy
<stgraber> I'm not even convinced it's not racy to do it where they're doing it at the moment ;)
<highvoltage> ah ok
#edubuntu 2012-05-29
<highvoltage> stgraber: another thing that we lost via ubuntu seeds was gnome-games. (which lead to us losing things like glchess, gnibbles, etc)
<highvoltage> stgraber: I suggest that we add gnome-games back
<highvoltage> stgraber: and I think since we can't ship stellarium on arm and since we want consistant packages across architectures, it's probably best to remove it
<stgraber> highvoltage: ok, I'll remove stellarium. For gnome-games, can you check what dependencies that'd bring? for example I don't really want us to become the clutter maintainers ;)
<stgraber> stellarium dropped
<highvoltage> stgraber: I installed it on the livecd, no clutter, and in total it's around 10MB of .deb downloads
<highvoltage> stgraber: ah, I lied
<highvoltage> stgraber: there's libclutter :-/
 * highvoltage checks what needs it
<stgraber> k, no thanks then :) maybe the desktop team will start getting clutter stuff this cycle and we'll get it for free then
<stgraber> also clutter performance on arm sucks apparently, I want any package we add to the seeds to be tested on armhf or we'll just end up having to remove them later on...
<highvoltage> ok, so if I remove libclutter, then gnibbles, gnome-games, lightsoff, quadrapassel and swell-foop are emoved
<highvoltage> *removed
<highvoltage> so perhaps we should just ship the ones that doesn't depend on clutter (which at least still gives us a chess game)
<stgraber> assuming the non-clutter ones are usable on arm
<stgraber> highvoltage: did you end up getting a pandaboard @RLNX or are you still using the beagles?
<highvoltage> stgraber: I think the pandaboard I have here is technically supposed to go back to the client, but they haven't collected it yet
<stgraber> highvoltage: k, I think it'd be best to get Ubuntu 12.04 installed on a panda, install the video driver, then install edubuntu-desktop and check what works/what doesn't
<stgraber> maybe try to upgrade to 12.10 but I'm not sure if that works yet
<stgraber> ogra_: ^
<highvoltage> stgraber, alkisg, mgariepy: btw we have an edubuntu meeting tomorrow
<alkisg> highvoltage: ah nice, what time?
<highvoltage> alkisg: 19:00 UTC
<alkisg> Hmmm I'm not sure if I can make it, I'll try though
<highvoltage> ok, we'll run through recent changes and work items and post the results to the list
<highvoltage> I'd like to talk to the EC as well about sponsorship for Edubuntu, but we could perhaps do that by mail instead
<jbicha> the Ubuntu Desktop Team plans to ship clutter on the 12.10 CD...
<jbicha> totem will depend on it, gnome-sushi (a quick-previewer for nautilus) needs it...
<highvoltage> http://tranzistors.wordpress.com/2012/05/29/progress-on-gnome-lockdown-2-mockups/
<highvoltage> jbicha: thanks for the info
#edubuntu 2012-05-30
<rhorstkoetter> hi edubuntu team. I'm currently rather confused by a default edubuntu 12.04 setup and I hope to get help here.
<rhorstkoetter> I had ubuntu 12.04 running with ltsp installed, thin clients booting etc (installed myself from scratch)
<rhorstkoetter> now, I decided to switch to edubuntu and nothing works anymore :p I checked ltsp server during install and was greeted with a strange misconfiguration. let me explain
<rhorstkoetter> edubuntu configured 192.168.0.254 as a dhcp server address in /etc/network/interfaces
<rhorstkoetter> thin clients won't boot. then I discovered that dhcp server in /etc/ltsp/dhcp(d).conf was at 192.168.0.1 instead
<rhorstkoetter> cannot work
<rhorstkoetter> then I adjusted /etc/network/interfaces to be 192.168.0.1 to match the /etc/ltsp/dhcp(d).conf
<jonathan_> that's odd, could you paste your dhcpd.conf file to http://paste.ubuntu.com/ ?
<rhorstkoetter> but still thin clients won't boot while they did with my own setup (built from scratch)
<rhorstkoetter> jonathan_: sure enough, wait a second please
<rhorstkoetter> need to ssh (hope that works)
<jonathan_> on the machine you could also type "pastebinit -i /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf"
<jonathan_> and it would do it for you
<rhorstkoetter> jonathan_: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1014673/
<ogra_> heh, highvoltage incognito :)
<rhorstkoetter> I haven't changed anything, i.e. it's just the default
<jonathan_> (fine)
<highvoltage> ogra_: I had a power failure at home and am connected via laptop :)
<highvoltage> ogra_: hey you're not quite "ogra" either ;)
<ogra_> ah, i saw you had issues with a panda ?
<rhorstkoetter> highvoltage: this is /etc/network/interfaces http://paste.ubuntu.com/1014674/
<highvoltage> ah that wasn't a panda, at least
<ogra_> true ... but i'm to lazy to configure my IRC proxy for auth
<rhorstkoetter> highvoltage: this has been the default http://paste.ubuntu.com/1014677/ - I should mention that edubuntu also switched network interface naming eth0/eth1 during install/installed system. thus the change from eth0 to eth1
<highvoltage> rhorstkoetter: hmm, ok, that's not nice
<rhorstkoetter> highvoltage: do you see any issues? what else you go wrong here? is there a need to rebuild the client chroot when editing /etc/network/interfaces while leaving /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf intact/default?
<ogra_> no
<rhorstkoetter> s/you/could
<highvoltage> rhorstkoetter: I guess you should change "eth0" to "eth0" in your /etc/network/interface file and restart networking and the dhcp server
<ogra_> did you restart the dhcpd after changing the config ?
<highvoltage> (sorry I'm a big groggy just woke up and haven't had coffee so if there's typos, that's why :) )
<rhorstkoetter> ogra_: I rebooted twice
<rhorstkoetter> highvoltage: change eth0 to what? network configuration is OK already (matched to dhcpd.conf)
<rhorstkoetter> highvoltage: eth1 is internal ltsp/dhcp interface 192.168.0.1 matching dhcpd.conf, eth0 is to the outside world
 * rhorstkoetter confused
<highvoltage> ah, your interfaces file that you pasted only had eth0 set to 192.168.0.254
<highvoltage> 192.168.0.254 is usually the default used for LTSP setups
<highvoltage> (for the server)
<rhorstkoetter> highvoltage: wait please. we misunderstand each other
<rhorstkoetter> sure I understand that
<rhorstkoetter> but
<rhorstkoetter> that cannot work
<rhorstkoetter> if dhcp server is configured as 192.168.0.254 in interfaces and 192.168.0.1 in dhcpd.conf (and that has been the default after edubuntu came up for the first time) - how should that work?
<rhorstkoetter> the eth0/eth1 switch was just another misconfiguration of edubuntu
<ogra_> the server IP isnt configured anywhere in dhcpd.conf usually
<ogra_> only DNS and gateway
<ogra_> (gateway should point to the server IP though)
<rhorstkoetter> ah, I see, you're right
<rhorstkoetter> still, the setup doesn't work and it worked with a self-configured ubuntu install just half an hour ago with the same thin client (10, all working)
<rhorstkoetter> so, I assume something is wrong with edubuntu default config (for me at least). what else may I try (assumed you testify my confs are correct)?
<rhorstkoetter> rebuild the client chroot?
<ogra_> how would that help ?
<ogra_> and how does your client not boot, whats the error ?
<rhorstkoetter> ogra_: it doesn't find the dhcp server
<ogra_> and you are sure there is only one dhcp server running in your network ?
<ogra_> PXE booting usually breaks if there are two that arent configured identically
<ogra_> (pointong both to the same tftp server etc)
<rhorstkoetter> ogra_: I also don't think it helps. I'm just out of ideas as the cabling is the same, the clients are the same, the server is the same. ubuntu self-configured worked, edubuntu does not
<highvoltage> my guess is that since he has 192.168.0.x range IPs on eth0 and eth1, (at least from what I could put together), dhcpd might actually be listening on the wrong interface
<rhorstkoetter> ogra_: certainly yes
<rhorstkoetter> highvoltage: eth1 is 192.168.1.0/24, eth0 is 192.168.0.0/24
<ogra_> it should tell to which interface it listens in the logs
<ogra_> can you ping the outside world from the server ?
<rhorstkoetter> highvoltage: the other way around sorry
<rhorstkoetter> ogra_: yes
<ogra_> then it looks like the wiring is fine
<rhorstkoetter> ogra_: the wiring is just the same as before, as is the network configuration
<rhorstkoetter> the difference just is that at first I configured ltsp myself in ubuntu and now I let edubuntu configure it
<ogra_> did you check the logs = dhcpd should actually tell you things when starting
<rhorstkoetter> during install
<rhorstkoetter> ogra_: syslog?
<ogra_> or messages, not sure
<ogra_> i still use lucid on my server machines ... that predates the log changes
<ogra_> (so i have  a daemon.log which you wont)
<rhorstkoetter> seems (according to the logs) that dhcp listens on the right interface
<rhorstkoetter> I mean interfaces and dhcpd.conf is configured correctly
<ogra_> and you see it running with "ps ax|grep dhcp" ?
<rhorstkoetter> I don't know. I guess I'll reinstall ubuntu and do the configuration myself again. that worked absolutely perfect
<rhorstkoetter> 1375 ?        Ss     0:00 /usr/sbin/dhcpd -f -q -4 -cf /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
<rhorstkoetter> only difference between installs that I notice is an interface lxcbr0
<rhorstkoetter> may this be an issue? not sure what it's for
<ogra_> for LXC (linux containers)
<rhorstkoetter> ok, need to research this to be honest. never heard about yet
<rhorstkoetter> hm
 * rhorstkoetter wants edubuntu to work ;)
<rhorstkoetter> ok, I thank you for your time ogra_ and highvoltage. I'm still not sure what's going on here as I can't find errors in my configs, neither in the logs
<rhorstkoetter> at least you also can't find errors. that's good :)
<rhorstkoetter> hi. it actually seems to be a client related issue
<rhorstkoetter> my collegue switched network cards and I was unaware actually
<rhorstkoetter> I'm VERY sorry
<ogra_> heh
<ogra_> np
<rhorstkoetter> switching network cards to the worse actually
<rhorstkoetter> atheros > sis BOOM
<rhorstkoetter> you may look (still) at the ethernet card switching during install/installed system
<rhorstkoetter> should I file a bug report regarding that issue
<ogra_> highvoltage, ^^^ ?
<rhorstkoetter> i.e. eth0/eth1 switched
<highvoltage> "09:29 < rhorstkoetter> my collegue switched network cards and I was unaware actually" <- that might have had something to do with it?
<ogra_> only if he also switched the server ones
<highvoltage> ah I see
<highvoltage> rhorstkoetter: if you file a bug, please include the installer logs from the server,
<highvoltage> (you could find them in /var/log/installer/ iirc)
<rhorstkoetter> ok, I see
<highvoltage> along with any other information you can provide, like that you chose to install LTSP, on which interface, what kind of network cards they are...
<highvoltage> rhorstkoetter: I've tested the edubuntu installation on quite a few different real-life and virtual machines and haven't come across a bug like that yet, but nothing is impossible :)
<rhorstkoetter> me neither yet
<rhorstkoetter> now trying to get etherboot into the ethernet card bootrom
<rhorstkoetter> cross fingers for me
<rhorstkoetter> collegue ordered 30 of these and turns out sis900 pxe is pita
<rhorstkoetter> i.e. not working
<rhorstkoetter> lol
<rhorstkoetter> there is a german saying that fits almost perfectly
<rhorstkoetter> regarding the sis network cards
<rhorstkoetter> einem geschenkten gaul schaut man nicht ins maul
<ogra_> so you got them for free ?
<rhorstkoetter> yes. as a donation
<ogra_> lucky you them :P
<rhorstkoetter> I am
<rhorstkoetter> I actually plan a rather big ltsp/edubuntu rollout at a school and I'm currently testing the setup/gathering hardware at various places etc
<highvoltage> ah that expression exists in english too: http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/dont-look-a-gift-horse-in-the-mouth.html
<rhorstkoetter> highvoltage: lol, I see. I wasn't that sure if it's an idiom to the german language or not
 * ogra_ didnt know there was an english equivalent
<rhorstkoetter> ogra_: you're german?
<ogra_> surprising, german spells rarely translate directly :=
<ogra_> yep
<rhorstkoetter> ah
<rhorstkoetter> me too :p
 * ogra_ assumed so :) 
<rhorstkoetter> yeah, thinking about, I guess my nick is rather obvious
<ogra_> could be dutch or belgian too though
<ogra_> or danish ... just because there is an oe in it doesnt necessarily mean german ...
<ogra_> but quoting german *and* having an oe in your name makes it pretty obvious :)
<rhorstkoetter> true. at least I finally understood where "ogra" comes from
<rhorstkoetter> true
<ogra_> my first provider gave it to me for my first internet dialup account ever :)
<ogra_> it just stuck since :)
<rhorstkoetter> lol, mine has a rather similar history
<rhorstkoetter> my pc-pool account in university
<ogra_> :)
<rhorstkoetter> although, if I remember correctly it has been rhorstkoe rather than rhorstkoetter
<rhorstkoetter> anyways
<rhorstkoetter> if I had the same isp back then I'd most likely be known as "rhor_" today
<rhorstkoetter> just kidding
<rhorstkoetter> almost sounds like thor
<rhorstkoetter> another funny thing actually is that whenever I come across sis hardware (in whatever regard) I have problems
<rhorstkoetter> interesting insight
<rhorstkoetter> not too funny though as I just noticed that 3 new/donated laptops that just arrived here today also have the very same sis900 pxe bootrom and guess what?
<rhorstkoetter> they don't boot (yet)
 * highvoltage tries to avoid things with 'sis' and 'via' written on them
<highvoltage> (but yes, given horses, etc)
<ogra_> remember the ebox 1000 think client ?
<ogra_> *thin
<highvoltage> yeah :)
<rhorstkoetter> yes, the given horses again ;)
<ogra_> that was an *all SIS* device
<highvoltage> yeah SIS Vortex or something like that iirc
<ogra_> works fine as my firewall here though ... but i never managed to make something else out of it
<rhorstkoetter> I had a medion desktop once and bought an usb camera for it
<rhorstkoetter> I actually returned it twice to the store (silly me, that has been beginner days) until I found out the real cause of the problem
<rhorstkoetter> guess what? > sis chipset. bought an intel pci usb card and it worked awesome
<highvoltage> yeah, despite not agreeing with the anti-competitive nature of the intel company, I do like their hardware :)
<rhorstkoetter> now the sis nightmare is about to return :) 30 pci network cards + 3 laptops with the very same bootrom = 33 potentially not working (yet) thin client
<rhorstkoetter> highvoltage: me too. nowadays I try to exclusively use thinkpads just for this very reason
<rhorstkoetter> but there is one positive thing to faulty hardware still
<rhorstkoetter> the learning curve
<rhorstkoetter> without things not working out of the box one wouldn't learn that much about getting them to work
<rhorstkoetter> so, thanks a lot gericom, sis, medion, acer etc etc
<rhorstkoetter> btw in regard of edubuntu, I found out a VERY simple solution to save ram on the server side by disabling X altogether. I mean an easy opportunity to set it up
<rhorstkoetter> you just need (thanks to upstart > 1.3) to setup /etc/init/lightdm.override with "manual" in there
<rhorstkoetter> most likely you know that but I'd say this would be something for docu at edubuntu
<highvoltage> rhorstkoetter: indeed, we're in dire need of some "tips and tricks" documentation
<rhorstkoetter> if you then want to get X back just "sudo mv lightdm.override lightdm.override_
<highvoltage> how much ram does that save, btw?
<rhorstkoetter> 100mb
<rhorstkoetter> approx
<rhorstkoetter> I currently have around 50mb ram usage (htop) after a fresh boot
<rhorstkoetter> and that's pretty slick
<rhorstkoetter> I also disabled network-manager
<rhorstkoetter> so by disabling that one and X I got down to around 50 megs
<rhorstkoetter> next thing will be to experiment with zram
<rhorstkoetter> I feel that as a good approach to deal with memory peaks
<rhorstkoetter> assumed you have a fast processor
<ogra_> just install the zram-conf package in your chroot
<rhorstkoetter> in chroot?
<ogra_> even works nocely on slow processors
<ogra_> well, if you want zram on the client, do it in the chroot, yes
<highvoltage> hmm, I haven't tried zram on an ltsp application server before
<alkisg> rhorstkoetter: does your server have so little ram that saving 50mb is worth the trouble?
<rhorstkoetter> I would have installed it at the server fs
<rhorstkoetter> alkisg: this is just a test server with 1gb ram
<alkisg> You supposedly need about 256 mb ram per client...
<rhorstkoetter> alkisg: and there is not much trouble involved but editing 3 text files
<alkisg> You could just pass "text" in grub
<rhorstkoetter> I think 50 megs worth of memory is 50 megs worth of memory even with a quad core and 8gb ram, isn't it?
<alkisg> I spent an afternoon to save 0.5 mb ram per thin client (the openvt memory)
<alkisg> ...but no, for the server, I wouldn't bother for 50mb
<rhorstkoetter> alkisg: true, that would be another opportunity for X
<rhorstkoetter> the override thing also is just one file edit though
<alkisg> I mean, for a real server with enough ram
<rhorstkoetter> I'd be more interested in getting rid of plymouth without uninstalling it
<highvoltage> rhorstkoetter: I tend to agree with you that 50MB of RAM is always worth saving
<rhorstkoetter> seems to be controlled by upstart as well
<ogra_> you cant
<highvoltage> plymouth is essential in ubuntu, but you can disable the actual graphical splash it shows, at least
<rhorstkoetter> ogra_: plymouth?
<ogra_> there are plenty bits that at least need libplymouth
<rhorstkoetter> ogra_: have you tried to disable the upstart job yet?
<rhorstkoetter> just curious
<ogra_> yes
<rhorstkoetter> and? what happens?
<ogra_> you can disable it, but you cant remove it
<rhorstkoetter> I wouldn't want to remove it, just disable it
<rhorstkoetter> to save ram
<ogra_> else your initrd mountall process would commit suicide, it needs libplymouth for communicastion
<rhorstkoetter> but plainly disabling it should be no matter or? I mean libplymouth still is on hdd that way
<ogra_> it wont save any ram though
<rhorstkoetter> ok, I see
<ogra_> plymouth kills itself right after boot (before switching to X)
<ogra_> (or before enabling ttys, depends how you look at it)
<rhorstkoetter> I guess I'm too ambitious to put as much <service>.overrides in /etc/init as possible
<rhorstkoetter> lol, seems my new hobby
<alkisg> You can remove plymouth from the initramfs but as ogra says it doesn't matter after the initial boot, it's only worth it for 64mb ram clients which can't boot otherwise
<rhorstkoetter> alkisg: I see, thx for sharing experiences
<alkisg> rhorstkoetter: there's an RM_SYSTEM_SERVICES lts.conf variable
<ogra_> yeah, if you need a minimal initrd you should divert the initrd scripts and hooks actually
<alkisg> Please do send your comments about additional services needed to be enabled/disabled there
<rhorstkoetter> alkisg: lol, you know what? you seem to me like being lts.conf expert top notch
<alkisg> All the persons you're talking to now are ltsp devs ;)
<ogra_> given that he is one of the current core programmers of LTSP it would be scary if he didnt
<rhorstkoetter> that's correct and I appreciate your companion
<rhorstkoetter> btw, as I'm talking to ltsp devs. is someone of you using another linux distro for these kind of setups than ubuntu?
<rhorstkoetter> just curious
<ogra_> well, thats an odd thing to ask in the edubuntu channel ... what answers would you expect ? :)
 * highvoltage occasionally does some testing for debian-edu, but doesn't use it in any day-to-day scenearios
<ogra_> if you want other distros, try #ltsp ... there you will also find gentoo, fedora and debian
<rhorstkoetter> ogra_: right, we're in edubuntu. anyways, I'd expect an honest one
<ogra_> and that ltsp fork that opensuse uses
<rhorstkoetter> I myself would never use anything else but ubuntu (always did, despite my opensuse cloak :p)
<rhorstkoetter> occasionally use archlinux as I like the tinkering
<highvoltage> I don't get any more money or credit of any kind no matter what you use, so I like to think that my answers isn't particularly biased :)
<highvoltage> s/isn't/aren't/g (aparently I can't do english today)
<rhorstkoetter> ogra_: I do not want to use something else myself. ubuntu works for me and always did
<ogra_> i didnt assume you wanted :)
<ogra_> but to get a more representative overview #ltsp is surely better
<rhorstkoetter> no need for it actually. just chitchatting a bit out of curiousity
<highvoltage> ogra_: btw, are you feeling better?
<rhorstkoetter> highvoltage: most likely your english is better than or ogra_'s or mine. should be at least
<highvoltage> stgraber: ubiquity seems to work fine for today's image, at least :)
<rhorstkoetter> alkisg: btw, as a follow-up to our discussions yesterday, my graphics problems/artefacts gone away once I switched back to gtk based DEs. they only occured in both KDE and razorqt
<rhorstkoetter> haven't tried the lts.conf variable though as I anyway decided to provide a GTK based DE to the pupils and as these worked (LXDE, Xfce, Gnome, Unity) there wasn't any need for tweaking anymore
<alkisg> rhorstkoetter: did you try X_SMART_COLOR_DEPTH?
<alkisg> ok
<rhorstkoetter> nope. it's in my cheat sheet though
<rhorstkoetter> in case I have another steak of madness to give KDE a try (happens once a year approximately and lasts an hour usually) :p
<ogra_> highvoltage, yeah, since a wekk already
<highvoltage> ogra_: great
<rhorstkoetter> s/steak/streak
<rhorstkoetter> as I'm dealing with ltsp devs here. reading (in parallel) about etherboot, it seems that it's now called gpxe and then ipxe
<rhorstkoetter> is this correct
<rhorstkoetter> ?
<highvoltage> rhorstkoetter: yep
<highvoltage> stgraber: so, I guess since stellarium is highly unlikely to run well on arm, we should probably just drop it for kstars?
<stgraber> highvoltage: I guess so, I dropped it yesterday anyway
<highvoltage> stgraber: ah, cool
<rhorstkoetter> highvoltage: ok, thx. I guess I need to read the ipxe docu now as the sis900 isn't booting neither from internal bootrom nor from ipxe live cd (i.e. just let it boot without any config)
<rhorstkoetter> hope I get this settled as atheros bootrom works just fine
<rhorstkoetter> just the sis900 seems to be a major pita
<highvoltage> stgraber: I see the gnote task is marked as complete, does that mean that tomboy notes are migrated?
<stgraber> no idea, but we didn't ship tomboy in 12.04 so I don't really care :)
<stgraber> I just added gnote to the seed
<highvoltage> stgraber: yeah, I was thinking something along the same lines
<highvoltage> gnote doesn't seem to add a menu in gnome fallback session
<highvoltage> (as in, a panel menu or indicator or whatever you call it these days)
 * highvoltage checks under unity
 * ogra_ calls it "thing"
<ogra_> thats never wrong :)
<highvoltage> hehe
<highvoltage> hmm, only way to seem to access it is by pressing alt+f12. perhaps Guest70781 will have some more insight on what we could do there
<highvoltage> the gnote applet works in gnome-fallback. not sure how to add it in unity though
<highvoltage> it crashes though :-/
<highvoltage> ooh, gimp 2.8 has landed in quantal
<highvoltage> stgraber: is xdiagnose something we should have in the menus? (it's under accessories currently)
<rhorstkoetter> hi again
<rhorstkoetter> have you ever dealed with the sis900 nic before. I think I remember highvoltage said something earlier
<rhorstkoetter> problem is that this card is driving me crazy and I hope you have some ideas still. plugging in the very same cable to my netbook (atheros pxe) works perfect
<stgraber> highvoltage: I see it in Ubuntu too, so if it shouldn't be there, it should be changed in the package itself, not in Edubuntu
<rhorstkoetter> sis900 doesn't even receive an ip address via dhcp
<rhorstkoetter> tried with builtin bootrom and now with ipxe boot disc with the very same result
<rhorstkoetter> no dhcp
<rhorstkoetter> have you ever encountered some issue like that .. at best with sis900 nic? google isn't that helpful either
<rhorstkoetter> unfortunately
<rhorstkoetter> the cabling and dhcp setup is perfectly correct. I plug the cable out of sis900 nic and into the netbook and it boots right away
<rhorstkoetter> plugging it back to sis nightmare and neither builtin bootrom nor ipxe is able to get dhcp
<rhorstkoetter> I even tried to configure static ip via ipxe and I cannot even ping from dhcp server/edubuntu
<rhorstkoetter> while ipxe properly recognizes sis900 it doesn't seem to work at all and I'm curious if some of you came across that very issue already sometimes in the past
<stgraber> highvoltage: saw you -artwork upload, are you overriding both /ubuntu and /gnome-classic now or just /gnome-classic (the later would be wrong I think)
<highvoltage> stgraber: both
<stgraber> good
<highvoltage> (since I guess we don't want to see them un unity either)
<stgraber> right
<highvoltage> stgraber: I told the guys in #kubuntu-dev about it too...
<highvoltage> (I'll probably file a bug for it because they were like "oh yeah, that", but didn't particularly seem to care about fixing it atm)
<stgraber> highvoltage: or just change it and propose the branch for merging, that way a patch pilot will merge it and the kde folks will just have to deal with it ;)
<highvoltage> stgraber: hmm, every time we make an artwork change we have to download the whole wallpapers binary package too
<highvoltage> stgraber: is there a way to have its version seperate? what was the rationale again for moving it to the edubuntu-artwork meta-package?
<highvoltage> source package, even
<highvoltage> stgraber: I see there's a comment file for the northern lights wallpaper. where is it displayed in the UI? It seems kind of an awesome way to teach people things via wallpapers
<stgraber> highvoltage: no idea :)
<stgraber> highvoltage: I can't remember the reason to merge -wallpapers in -artwork, could have been related to the gconf/dconf schema and the rest of the integration being in that source
<highvoltage> mgariepy: I took a stab at a menueditor icon
<highvoltage> mgariepy: any ideas or objections? http://people.ubuntu.com/~jonathan/files/quantal/edubuntu/icons/menueditor.svg
<highvoltage> (still making some small tweaks for alignment, etc)
<mgariepy> highvoltage, cool :)
<mgariepy> it looks very nice :)
<rhorstkoetter> I guess I need some help still with for me very curious network issues
<rhorstkoetter> do you people have some spare time to help again please?
<highvoltage> (or a png: http://people.ubuntu.com/~jonathan/files/quantal/edubuntu/icons/menueditor2.png)
<rhorstkoetter> I try to explain ...
<rhorstkoetter> the ltsp server has two interfaces (sis900 and rtl8139) sis900 to the outside, rtl8139 to the inside
<rhorstkoetter> the only client that's able to boot is an n450 netbook with atheros ethernet (not sure about the exact chipset)
<rhorstkoetter> two other client (sis900 and a thinkpad r32) won't boot
<rhorstkoetter> I tried for hours reading about lots of pxe issues booting from sis900
<rhorstkoetter> then I tried the thinkpad just to see that it won't boot either
<rhorstkoetter> then ...
<highvoltage> have you tried booting from a gpxe iso?
<rhorstkoetter> yes.
<rhorstkoetter> etherboot, gpxe, ipxe
<rhorstkoetter> all won't boot
<highvoltage> what do they say?
<rhorstkoetter> then I got suspicious against the server (rtl8139)
<rhorstkoetter> dhcp timeout
<highvoltage> mgariepy: should I change it in the package too? I think it looks good in the menus (tested it in a VM)
<rhorstkoetter> highvoltage: now it comes ;)
<rhorstkoetter> thinkpad said no cable connected when booting
<rhorstkoetter> and trust me the cable was on there
<rhorstkoetter> in fact the very same successfully booting the netbook 10 times in a row
<rhorstkoetter> I got to the conclusion that it's neither the sis900 client nor the thinkpad failing but the rtl8139 on the server side
<rhorstkoetter> I thus switched the interfaces: sis900 to the inside this time, rtl8139 to the outside
<rhorstkoetter> please don't be confused â¦ server also has ONE sis900
<rhorstkoetter> and guess what? netbook boots, sis900 client does not, neither does the thinkpad - on the very same cable with the very same error
<rhorstkoetter> I almost got to the conclusion to be too silly to plug in ethernet but I triple checked and the cable definately works on netbook
<rhorstkoetter> my gosh â¦ this doesn't seem to come to an end
<rhorstkoetter> so, long story short (sorry but it gets more complex by the hour)
<rhorstkoetter> my current conclusion is that the netbook somehow "tells" the server (sis900 + rtl8139) that it is actually connected
<rhorstkoetter> I know this sounds crazy but I have no other explanation why the netbook boots in all configurations while the thinkpad and the sis900 client refuse to boot
<rhorstkoetter> what do you think? any recommendations?
<rhorstkoetter> I mean my very own network knowledge came (almost) to an end
<rhorstkoetter> thanks in advance
<highvoltage> anyone around for an edubuntu meeting?
 * highvoltage heads over to #ubuntu-meeting
<stgraber> kinda
<highvoltage> good enough :)
 * highvoltage just gave a quick summary anyway
<highvoltage> oash. we still have geogebra on the slideshow
<d1zzYLuLz> so, as a school project we tried to start a charity (www.connectingourfuture.org)  we're going to put edubuntu on some old systems to donate to local daycares
<d1zzYLuLz> i'd like to use xfce or lxde, somethign lightweight...do you think it'd be easier to use xubuntu + edubuntu repos or edubuntu and install xfce?
<alkisg> d1zzYLuLz: how old systems? How much RAM?
<alkisg> If they're very old, you might want to consider LTSP, i.e. use them as thin clients instead
<d1zzYLuLz> they're pretty old..im goin to max out there ram
<d1zzYLuLz> LTSP though, it's not much
<d1zzYLuLz> it's like 2 computers here, 3-4 there...
<alkisg> Ah, ok. So you think about 512 ram?
<d1zzYLuLz> otherwise, the whole project was a pretty bad flop
<d1zzYLuLz> yeah maybe a little more than that..def no more than 2GB in the best one
<alkisg> With 1-2 Gb you could just install edubuntu, no need for lxde/xfce
<d1zzYLuLz> but im guessing between 512-1gb
<alkisg> For that ^ yeah something lighter would probably be better
<d1zzYLuLz> and use the gnome fallback?
<alkisg> Yeah, it's easier for older PCs
<alkisg> For 512 I'd use LXDE, for 1 Gb, gnome-fallback
<alkisg> So if you're going to have 512 mb clients, maybe go with lxde for all of them...
<d1zzYLuLz> okay...so do you think lubuntu w/ edubuntu repos, or edubuntu and install lxde
<alkisg> For 512, the first
<alkisg> E.g. some might only want gtk apps to avoid the kde libs
<alkisg> That would save them lots of ram
<alkisg> (btw there are no "edubuntu repos", it's just main/universe etc)
<d1zzYLuLz> oh, okay..i thought their were special edubuntu repos..
<d1zzYLuLz> so i'll have to find a list of good games
<v4169sgr> Hello, I have a question about Dell FX170 thin clients and LTSP
<v4169sgr> Is this the right place to ask?
#edubuntu 2012-05-31
<alkisg> Good morning
<vmlintu> morning
#edubuntu 2013-05-27
<mar77i> hello world
<mar77i> what is jockey-gtk and why does it break?
<highvoltage> mar77i: it detects newly installed hardware and detects whether you need any additional drivers for existing hardware
<highvoltage> mar77i: what does it do? do you get an error message? those are usually safe to silence (I think there's a button that says "don't warn me again about this error" or something like that)
<mar77i> yup. although the UI "this program has crashed and we want you to send an error report" wasn't too helpful. I'll try logging in again in a minute
<mar77i> this being a laptop of average age surprised me that wlan didn't just work, although I guess it can be toggled through an fn key
<mar77i> negative. Let's first set up wlan, so I can make the rest work a bit more comfortably. Networkmanager shows grayed out wireless connection / scan entries which can be configured but not activated.
<mar77i> ip link shows a device wlan0 which is down. networkmanager seemed not to be managing that device though.
<mar77i> erk
<mar77i> still no wlan. tried setting it up with iwconfig, which leads to a message "SET failed on device wlan0 ; Operation not supported."
<mar77i> okay. found the hardware button
<mar77i> ...no updates? I hate the people I have to work with
<mar77i> (obviously that doesn't mean it got updated recently but that support has been cancelled and )
<mar77i> okay. now... I haven't got the jockey error message any more, but I have no idea how I could make this laptop's dvi output work.
<mar77i> xrandr is showing vga-0, dvi-i-0, tv-9 and dvi-i-1 as disconnected and an lvds-0 as connected... hmm, the release is "precise", the laptop is a maxdata thingy which doesn't look very promising
<mar77i> how can I boot to rescue mode?
<mar77i> there seems to be no grub menu or something
#edubuntu 2013-05-28
<Roxastry> Hello all?
<Roxastry> I have issues about window customization. I needed change titlebar color. How i can make it? Sorry of my bad English.
#edubuntu 2013-06-02
<highvoltage> stgraber: does edubuntu-webcontact still work? I haven't seen a mail from it in a while.
<stgraber> highvoltage: I haven't done anything to break it but we indeed haven't seen anything from webcontact or deployment in a while, so maybe there's something messed up with SMTP on humboldt
<stgraber> highvoltage: adding to my todo to investigate
<highvoltage> stgraber: ok great
<stgraber> highvoltage: e-mails have been fixed
<stgraber> highvoltage: we had a few problems, one was a few thousand spam entries on humboldt and then my zimbra having issues with distribution lists (e-mails getting stuck in a queue). I fixed zimbra and wiped all the spam entries, so we should be back to normal.
<highvoltage> stgraber: ah great!
<carluchox> hola
<carluchox> ok
<carluchox> bye
#edubuntu 2014-05-29
<salmonix> hi, I need a little help with the configuration in a server-client scenario, where the server is also a desktop station, with 3 clients.
<salmonix> I configured the server with auto login for the 'kids' user and I would like to have the clients also log in automatically when turned on.
<salmonix> However, the clients boot into a login screen instead.
<salmonix> The other problem is that I would like to auto-shut down the clients at T-5 minute, the server at T. Any idea and help is appreciated!
#edubuntu 2014-05-30
<gassho> uuuuuuuuuuh
<gassho> 14.01 is out right?
<gassho> *`14.04
#edubuntu 2014-06-01
<tommi> hi
<tommi> do you know why the file autocompletion does not work. it is the first time in 20 years!
<tommi> i mean in a shell
 * highvoltage tries utopic in kvm
#edubuntu 2015-05-27
<jordany> hello
#edubuntu 2017-05-29
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: ebtables (zesty-proposed/main) [2.0.10.4-3.5ubuntu1 => 2.0.10.4-3.5ubuntu1.17.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2017-05-31
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxd (xenial-proposed/main) [2.13-0ubuntu3~ubuntu16.04.1 => 2.0.10-0ubuntu1~16.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2018-05-29
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: pollinate (bionic-proposed/main) [4.31-0ubuntu1 => 4.33-0ubuntu1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2018-05-30
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: pollinate (artful-proposed/main) [4.27-0ubuntu1 => 4.33-0ubuntu1~17.10.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: pollinate (bionic-proposed/main) [4.31-0ubuntu1 => 4.33-0ubuntu1~18.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2018-06-01
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: ebtables (artful-proposed/main) [2.0.10.4-3.5ubuntu2.17.10.1 => 2.0.10.4-3.5ubuntu2.17.10.2] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: ebtables (bionic-proposed/main) [2.0.10.4-3.5ubuntu2.18.04.1 => 2.0.10.4-3.5ubuntu2.18.04.2] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2019-05-27
<cjdg> hi there !!!
<cjdg> hey guys i want to ask something, i know that edubuntu is now halted, but what will be needed to make it run again?
#edubuntu 2019-05-28
<nnnnnnnnnn> hello
#edubuntu 2020-05-25
<hello> the downloadlinks of edubuntu is dead
<hello> The requested URL was not found on this server.
#edubuntu 2020-05-28
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (focal-proposed/main) [20.1-10-g71af48df-0ubuntu5 => 20.2-38-g8377897b-0ubuntu1~20.04.1] (core, edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (eoan-proposed/main) [19.4-33-gbb4131a2-0ubuntu1~19.10.1 => 20.2-38-g8377897b-0ubuntu1~19.10.1] (core, edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (bionic-proposed/main) [19.4-33-gbb4131a2-0ubuntu1~18.04.1 => 20.2-38-g8377897b-0ubuntu1~18.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2020-05-29
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (xenial-proposed/main) [19.4-33-gbb4131a2-0ubuntu1~16.04.1 => 20.2-38-g8377897b-0ubuntu1~16.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
