#xubuntu-devel 2010-10-11
<cody-somerville> charlie-tca, done
<charlie-tca> Thanks! That was a bit of a snag 
<cody-somerville> charlie-tca, Whats your preferred e-mail address these days?
<charlie-tca> I been using charlie-tca@ubuntu.com a lot, but also charlie@keepingdreams.org
<cody-somerville> charlie-tca, I've just created you an account on xubuntu.org
<cody-somerville> charlie-tca, you should have full privileges 
<charlie-tca> Oh
<charlie-tca> You mean don't wait, huh?
<charlie-tca> Thank you
<cody-somerville> charlie-tca, I've set it up so you can use OpenID to login
<cody-somerville> charlie-tca, but I recommend you change your password after logging in anyhow for security reasons.
<charlie-tca> Okay, great!
<charlie-tca> I can do that
<vidd> i love the new artwork
<charlie-tca> thank you , vidd
<charlie-tca> Thank knome, when you see him
<vidd> i just dont like the shade/ninimize etc buttons
<vidd> looks so MAC-ish
<vidd> do you change that under "Appearance?
<vidd> or windaow manager?
<vidd> i got it...nvrmd
<vidd> now i can evict debian from THIS system and get xubuntu on it
<cody-somerville> charlie-tca, dunno if you saw but visits more than doubled yesterday to website
<charlie-tca> That's a good thing
<charlie-tca> Now we just have to keep going, right/
<cody-somerville> :)
#xubuntu-devel 2010-10-12
<charlie-tca> Actually, vidd, I did it with 192MB
<vidd> yes...but you know what your doing =]
<charlie-tca> true
<charlie-tca> I seriously am thinking troll here now. Everyday he asks the same questions
<cody-somerville> who?
<charlie-tca> jrmy
#xubuntu-devel 2010-10-13
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu OpenWeek session is 2010-10-14 at 15:00 UTC! right after Mr. Mark Shuttleworth, of course. Everybody invited - #ubuntu-classroom
#xubuntu-devel 2010-10-14
<charlie-tca> Ubuntu Open Week - Ask Mark Shuttleworth on now, xubuntu session will be at 15:00 UTC, 1 hour away
<charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek
#xubuntu-devel 2010-10-15
<pleia2> charlie-tca: I have been thinking some, where on the "stuff that should be done" list is the new website theme?
<charlie-tca> Didn't I add it?
<pleia2> add it?
<charlie-tca> wait! what new website theme?
<pleia2> well there was one proposed when the rebranding happened
<charlie-tca> for http://xubuntu.org or wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu ?
<pleia2> xubuntu.org
<pleia2> it still has our old logo and everything
<charlie-tca> I must be behind.
<charlie-tca> yeah, add it. It might need updating
<pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Brand2?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=xubuntu-site.png
<pleia2> I don't know who made it, but that was floating around
<pleia2> does a "stuff that should be done" list exist? :)
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> Let me find it
<pleia2> thanks
<pleia2> I took much of the maverick cycle off due to work concerns, but I'm hoping to help out with xubuntu for this cycle
<charlie-tca> Here it is - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap
<pleia2> website is something I can help with :)
<charlie-tca> That would be great
<pleia2> ok, shall I add this to "new objectives for natty"?
 * pleia2 does
<charlie-tca> Let's go with natty
<charlie-tca> I think that was the planned template for moving the website to wordpress, too.
<pleia2> that would be nice, any idea what it's running now?
<charlie-tca> no one, I think. Knome was going to do it.
<charlie-tca> vinnl and cody-somerville keep it updated for us
<charlie-tca> vinnl is the website lead
<charlie-tca> Oh, wrong answer.
<charlie-tca> I think it is Drupal now
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> it's canonical-hosted so drupal makes sense
<pleia2> and I'll touch base with vinnl about all this
<pleia2> thanks :)
<charlie-tca> right. I think there is a wordpress available too, now. It just came about in the last month or two, though.
<charlie-tca> QA is using wordpress now.
<pleia2> cool
 * cody-somerville has shell access so please feel free to poke me if you need me.
<charlie-tca> pleia2: ^ ^ ^ 
<pleia2> thanks cody-somerville
* cody-somerville changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | Want to get involved? See: http://xubuntu.org/contribute | #xubuntu for support, #xubuntu-offtopic for general discussion | Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyReleaseSchedule | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu
#xubuntu-devel 2010-10-16
<vidd> good eve mr_pouit are you here?
#xubuntu-devel 2011-10-10
<Unit193> Seems they changed a lot today
<charlie-tca> yeah
<Unit193> 86% from afternoon
<Unit193> 81
<raevol> is it a known issue that gtk themes break in some apps on oeneric?
<raevol> for example, archive manager and update manager?
<micahg_> hmm, I thought we had a GTK3 theme
<raevol> micahg: honestly i dunno what version of gtk, whatever ships with oeneric
<micahg> raevol: 2 and 3
<raevol> so, does that have anything to do with the themes breaking?
<micahg> as long as we have themes for both I thought they would be fine
<ochosi> micahg_: gmusicbrowser just got a new release (1.1.8)
<madnick> No images today?
<charlie-tca> spinning again
<madnick> okay :)
<charlie-tca> last minute fix for apt and ubiquity
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu alternate images are available.
<micahg_> ochosi: funny :)
<micahg> ochosi: I'll merge into Debian next weekend unless alessio beats me to it
<Carl621> Hi
<Carl621> I need help
<Carl621> IÂ´m trying to install Google Chrome and I receive this message: Error: Dependency is not satisfiable: libasound2 (>> 1.0.22)
<Carl621> Anyone can help me ?
<Carl621> nobody here ?
<Carl621> nobody here to help me
<pleia2> Carl621: you want #xubuntu for support since this is the dev channel, but what version of xubuntu are you using? 
<pleia2> all the currently supported versions of xubuntu have at least 1.0.22
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu Open Week session October 20 at 16:00 UTC. Anyone want to lead it?
<pleia2> charlie-tca: akgraner said you were :)
<charlie-tca> Yeah, I know. but I had to ask anyway. :)
<pleia2> hehe
<pleia2> I just did one for User Days, I can be a session helper if you need one
<charlie-tca> I did that too. Accessibility session
<charlie-tca> If you have the time, a session helper would be good
<Carl621> hi
<Carl621> I need help
<pleia2> Carl621: I tried to help you, please read above
<Carl621> ok wait
<Carl621> ok
<Carl621> I am using Ubuntu 9.0.4
<pleia2> that release is no longer supported, you'll want to upgrade to at least 11.04
<pleia2> sorry, 10.04
<Carl621> I was trying to do it but its not possible to upgrade to 10.04 because there damage sector in hdd
<Carl621> so I have to use 9.0.4
<pleia2> not much that can be done then, you won't be able to install chrome in an older release
<Carl621> Google Chrome was installed but I decided to uninstall and reinstall again to solve an issue and now I cant install Google Chrome
<Carl621> pleia2 r u there ?
<pleia2> Carl621: I don't know how to help you
<pleia2> you're using an unsupported release that doesn't have the library you need
<Carl621> ok. Thanks pleias2
<Carl621> Thanks for your help
<Carl621> Bye
<pleia2> good luck
<ochosi> micahg: cool, thanks!
<charlie-tca> well, that's twice for carl. Maybe next time he will understand that he needs to do a fresh install soon :(
<charlie-tca> All images are ready for syncing again.
<madnick> goodie
<charlie-tca> desktop images being re-built again. 
<charlie-tca> At least alternate images should be good
<madnick> haha i just started the install :(
<ochosi> micahg: would you also backport it to oneiric?
<micahg> ochosi: yeah, only 1 rdepend, we can try that
<charlie-tca> madnick: advantages of the slow internet here. I don't get the files downloaded fast enough to do anything
<ochosi> micahg: k, that'd be pretty cool!
<charlie-tca> Hello, again. It seems I hit the wrong button again
<charlie-tca> madnick: apparently, even the alternate are not valid yet.
<madnick> charlie-tca: oh okay :( i didnt try because i went outside for a while 
<charlie-tca> ooops, I done it again... didn't I ?
<Carl007> When I try to install google chrome I receive this message: Error: Dependency is not satisfiable: libc6 (>= 2.11)
<mr_pouit> if you're still on 9.04, you can't
<Carl007> why ?
<soren> 9.04? Seriously?
<mr_pouit> Carl007: please, pleia already explained to you earlier :/
<Carl007> I have to get this: Libc6 2.11 but what site do i get it ?
<soren> 9.04 is ancient. It's not supported anymore by anyone.
<soren> You'll have to upgrade your OS.
<Carl007> I resolved the last issue alone
<Carl007> but now I receive the message above
<Carl007> I only need to install is: libc6 2.11 to resolve this issue but where do i get it ?
<micahg> Google was a good citizen and now only supports Lucid+
<mr_pouit> Carl007: the only thing you'll achieve is make your system unbootable if you try to get that
<Carl007> yes ??
<Carl007> :(
<Carl007> r u saying me the true ?
<Carl007> pouit ?
<Carl007> R u talking seriously ?
<Carl007> pouit ??
<Carl007> r u there ?
<soren> The more time you spend not upgrading your OS, you'll just be digging yourself a deeper hole.
<Carl007> ok
<Carl007> Thanks 
<Carl007> byw
<Carl007> bye
<GridCube> good evening people
<madnick> evening
<GridCube> how are you?
<madnick> i'm ok, you? :)
<GridCube> im ok :)
<GridCube> D: the wiki says today was a meeting?!
<GridCube> ah no, it says 10/3
<GridCube> XD
<madnick> :D
<madnick> next meeting the 23 i think
<GridCube> yes
<charlie-tca> topic says 23
<GridCube> :)
<charlie-tca> new alternate images just out
<GridCube> im syncking
<GridCube> how are you charlie-tca ? :)
<GridCube> this is a hard week i gather
<charlie-tca> heh, just starting
<charlie-tca> We haven't had images yet to test
<charlie-tca> oh, well. I will go get a haircut while we wait. :)
<charlie-tca> Well that worked! We have desktop images too now
#xubuntu-devel 2011-10-11
<Pjotr> Hello, I installed Xubuntu Oneiric today, with the daily build of yesterday evening. I noticed two issues:
<Pjotr> 1. the wireless network data (SSID and key) weren't transferred from the live session to the hard disk installation (previous installs of Xubuntu did that fine): at the end of the installation, I received an error message stating that the transfer of network data had failed.
<Pjotr> 2. In Xubuntu, Firefox didn't contain the Dutch spell checking dictionary (in a Dutch localized system). I had to install it manually afterwards. The same Firefox in Ubuntu, *did* contain this dictionary. So this issue is Xubuntu-only. My guess is, that this happens in all languages, not only in Dutch.
<charlie-tca> New images for testing just came out. Plese download/sync if you are testing these final candidates.
<Pjotr> charlie-tca: the images here, are still those of yesterday evening: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/
<charlie-tca> nope
<charlie-tca> yeah
<charlie-tca> give them a minute to refresh maybe.
<charlie-tca> the new images just hit, and it takes a few minutes for them to sync to current
<charlie-tca> If you look at http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/, you see the ones dated for today
<Pjotr> OK... Do they address the two issues I just reported?
<charlie-tca> and I would know because? they just got posted...
<charlie-tca> I know for sure between the time you posted the issues here and the respin finished, nothing was done
<Pjotr> I found them, thanks... 
<Pjotr> Do you happen to know if they address the two issues I just mentioned here?
<charlie-tca> No, I don't. They have been respinning to much for me to even test them
<Pjotr> OK, I'll do a fresh install and then report back here.
<Pjotr> Hello, I've just freshly installed Xubuntu Oneiric, daily build of this afternoon
<Pjotr> the issue of the transfer of the wireless data, has been solved
<charlie-tca> great!
<charlie-tca> however, ...
<Pjotr> but not the issue of the Firefox spell dictionary: only in Xubuntu, Firefox didn't contain the Dutch spell checking dictionary (in a Dutch localized system). I had to install it manually afterwards. The same Firefox in Ubuntu, *did* contain this dictionary. So this issue is Xubuntu-only. My guess is, that this happens in all languages, not only in Dutch.
<Pjotr> charlie-tca: lol
<Pjotr> And another thing, which I've noticed all along in all Oneiric builds: Oneiric-backports were enabled by default. Is this intentional? Backports never ever were enabled by default in *buntu.
<charlie-tca> micahg: what about a 0day SRU to enable the languages in firefox for Xubuntu?
<charlie-tca> Pjotr: we probably enabled them by mistake
<Pjotr> charlie-tca: Same in Ubuntu Oneiric, as I recall.... Backports are not a good thing for a stable system.
<charlie-tca> I don't think it is a big deal, since backports is empty until we get to this point anyway
<charlie-tca> Even enabled, an empty repository has no effect
<Pjotr> OK, but this changes after final release...
<charlie-tca> yes, 
<charlie-tca> it will start filling up, and then enabled can be very bad
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: we have backports enabled in the final images
<madnick> how is the spreadsheet for today? should one change it? it doesnt have any date field
<charlie-tca> We use the ISO tracker only this week
<madnick> iso tracker?
<madnick> :P
<charlie-tca> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/
<madnick> oh okay
 * charlie-tca is still syncing...
<Pjotr> Have to go. Good luck with the final polishing; Xubuntu Oneiric is already mighty fine, and will be a great success!
<charlie-tca> Thank you for testing today
<pleia2> charlie-tca: who all has access to the drupal site? I have a company meeting on thursday so I am going to be away for a few hours, possibly when release happens and we need the announcement posted
<charlie-tca> you, cody-somerville, vinnl unless vinnl lost his password again
<knome> how does chrome compare to epiphany/midori memorywise?
<charlie-tca> knome: how good is your memory? did I get the access list right?
<knome> that sounds about right
<charlie-tca> I don't the memory requirements for browsers. I haven't used chrome, I used epiphany a number of years ago, and I try midori each release.
<knome> right
<charlie-tca> but I am hoping someone else does know. :)
<knome> my eeepc has 512MB mem, and i'd need to get a decent fast browser
<madnick> 512MB RAM, same as mine then, I use netsurf
<knome> is it cli? :P
<madnick> it can be :)
<madnick> does not have to be
<knome> right
<madnick> http://www.netsurf-browser.org/about/screenshots/images/framebuffer-bbc.png
<madnick> there is framebuffer version
<madnick> http://www.netsurf-browser.org/about/screenshots/images/gtk-bbc.png
<madnick> gtk version
<knome> how well does it know the new css3/html5 stuff?
<madnick> You had to ask :(
<knome> haha
<charlie-tca> netsurf appears to be in Oneiric, too
<knome> yeah, i had to, because i need to show off a css3/html5 site with that browser :P
<madnick> Well, afaik they are trying to keep pace with HTML5/CSS3
<knome> btw, one more bomb
<knome> i have lucid :P
<knome> well, i don't need the css3 stuff to work
<knome> as long as anything doesn't break horribly.
<charlie-tca> netsurf | 1.2-1build1 | lucid/universe | source, amd64, armel, i386, ia64, powerpc, sparc
<madnick> I think perhaps a webkit based browser is your best shot
<charlie-tca> should still have netsurf then
<knome> why is my D/L rates like 30kB/s on the eeepc? :(
<charlie-tca> midori was not all that great in lucid, was it?
<knome> no idea.
<knome> :)
<charlie-tca> I think I would epiphany or chrome, but am not sure. 
<madnick> #include <webkit/webkit.h> #include <gtk/gtk.h> + 50 more lines of code, it wont get much lighter :P But Epiphany is light, even tho it has some features
<knome> with ethernet, the download rates are as they should be
<knome> i wonder if the wlan is somehow broken, or if it's just supposed to be slow :P
<madnick> hehe, i got the EEEPC900, it barely runs :\
<knome> i've the 4G
<knome> my laptop is not working, since its HD went dingdong
<knome> i haven't got the motivation yet to check if it works with the new HD
<knome> i must've done something wrong, because the DVD drive in it doesn't work any more :((
<knome> how broken is the daily build for today?
<knome> wait, there is no desktop daily
<knome> awwwh
<knome> ehh, what
<knome> what's the official site for daily builds? are desktop images working?
<charlie-tca> knome: http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/
<charlie-tca> or !daily
<charlie-tca> !daily
<ubottu> Daily builds of the CD images of the current development version of Ubuntu are available at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/ and http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
<knome> okay
<knome> are they working? ;)
<charlie-tca> yes, they appear to be working, but I am just starting an install now. I haven't had time yet to run them
<knome> heh, okay.
<knome> they should work with the startup creator too, right?
<charlie-tca> I have seen a report that Ubuntu has 57 updates after installing today
<knome> that's not a problem really.
<charlie-tca> yup, supposed to with with startup creator or unetbootin
<knome> good
<charlie-tca> Still got Onboard in the menu! That's a big difference at this point in the cycle
<madnick> onboard is a bliss compared to xkb, or what its called :)
<charlie-tca> Yeah, but to actually still have it in the menu is awesome!
<madnick> :)
<charlie-tca> 64bit live session is working good.
<madnick> yeah 32bit too :) 
<charlie-tca> The only serious issue I have so far is abiword won't save the template, and you have to manually change settings every time you use it
<charlie-tca> If you change the fonts, write a letter, save and close, when you open the letter, the font is back to the original font
<charlie-tca> madnick: verify bug 854198 . Can we sign it off as fixed now?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 854198 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "Cannot change keymap language again after double clicking on a language" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/854198
<madnick> charlie-tca: let me try
<charlie-tca> I can not reproduce it any more
<madnick> charlie-tca: http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/nope.png
<madnick> sorry, its still there on days image
<madnick> todays*
<charlie-tca> No problem. The bug is still open, too
<charlie-tca> I tried from desktop session, and could not make it freeze
<madnick> I tried from the installer
<charlie-tca> Yeah, one more reason to push the install from live session thing.
<micahg> charlie-tca: dictionaries are installed as part of language-selector, I'm not sure how that works for derivatives, also backports is enabled for everyone by default with a lower pin priority, this allows users to get entirely new packages from backports, but not ones currently in the distro w/out explicitly selecting them
<charlie-tca> Yeah, I thought about backports and came to that conclusion
<charlie-tca> Apparently dictionaries work different for derivatives, since the report was they are enabled by default in Ubuntu.
<charlie-tca> I don't know how it works, is it anything to worry about or do we just tell them to install the dictionary of their choice?
<micahg> if they fire up language selector, it should allow the install of whatever is missing
<charlie-tca> hm, does that mean we are not fully installing languages again?
<charlie-tca> I will run a Korean installation and check that out
<charlie-tca> m, wait
<charlie-tca> If they choose to install in their native language, they never have to fire up the language selector after the install, but they also don't get the dictionary of their native language.
<charlie-tca> Does anyone get the "remove the disk and hit enter to continue" prompt on the desktop cd?
<charlie-tca> Does anyone get the "remove the disk and hit enter to continue" prompt on the desktop cd?
<charlie-tca> It's plymouth that should generate the message, right?
<charlie-tca> Well, anyway, it's now bug 872472
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 872472 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu Oneiric does not display "remove cd and hit Enter to continue" when installing from desktop cd" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/872472
<charlie-tca> Okay, even saveas defaults to recently used? REALLY?
<charlie-tca> and then errors because you did not pick the folder. REALLY
<charlie-tca> Can't it just default to /home/$USER anymore?
<charlie-tca> hm, my abiword bug seems to be my own settings. will have to investigate after release.
<jay__> Hi all, have installed beta 2, been using the last 2 days, all up to date. its been going great, but suddenly every time i log in, xfdesktop needs to be restarted as i just get a blank screen, any ideas?/can anyone help? thanks
<jay__> its a problem with xfdesktop
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: we seem to be in good condition for this final release. 
<charlie-tca> Keeping the fingers crossed, of course.
<charlie-tca> jay__: user support is #xubuntu. You might try saving the session before shutting dow/restarting/logging out
<mr_pouit> nice, thanks
<charlie-tca> I still can not reproduce the blueman crash
<mr_pouit> (fyi, I'm busy tomorrow afternoon and thursday afternoon, so don't hate me if I'm not online before the evening ;-)
 * micahg is gone from tomorrow afternoon until sat night
<charlie-tca> Okay, I promise
<charlie-tca> micahg: Thanks for all you have done. Enjoy your time off!
<jay__> i just figured since this was dev and that i was using beta 2 that this might be the place, thanks for getting back, i head over to xubuntu now
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: I am thinking just tomorrow . We will be releasing it Thursday, and if they don't screw us by tomorrow night, it's too late, isn't it?
<charlie-tca> jay__: all of +1 is supported in #ubuntu+1, for all flavors/derivatives
<charlie-tca> micahg: before you disappear, is it possible to look over the release notes and see what I screwed up?
<charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/OneiricOcelot/Final
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: I would really appreciate you taking a look too
<charlie-tca> hm, I don't know how to bypass the lightdm screen, but autologin works when the user name is hightlighted and login is clicked.
<charlie-tca> oops, seems if Session and Startup -> Advanced tab, Launch GNOME services on startup is checked, Onboard starts automatically
<charlie-tca> but can be closed, with a click
<charlie-tca> It is not in Autostart, so it is tied to GNOME services starting.
<charlie-tca> hm, GNOME services gives another user a blue background instead of the wallpaper
<mr_pouit> I read it this afternoon, and it was ok
<micahg> charlie-tca: nautilus?
<charlie-tca> no
<charlie-tca> seems unchecking Gnome Services makes things work right again
<charlie-tca> nautilus not installed here
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: bug against xfce4-session for Gnome Services?
<charlie-tca> micahg: no, nautilus not installed when the blue background comes up
<mr_pouit> xfce4-session then
<charlie-tca> filing the bug now. Thank you
<charlie-tca> annoyance more than anything. Hate having to close a window I didn't open
<charlie-tca> The issue with the desktop is nautilus caused for jay__ 
<charlie-tca> madnick: still testing?
<madnick> charlie-tca: nope, i did both images
<madnick> desktop and alternatte
<charlie-tca> Thanks!
<charlie-tca> I was going to have you verify that Gnome services/Onboard starting bug
<madnick> I can boot it up
<madnick> What is the test case?
<charlie-tca> bug 872515
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 872515 in xfce4-session (Ubuntu) "Onboard Keyboard appears on desktop when GNOME Services is checked" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/872515
<charlie-tca> just open settings -> Sessions and Startup, last tab is advanced, check Gnome services, reboot
<charlie-tca> see if Onboard is started when you login
<madnick> okay
<madnick> charlie-tca: it does
<madnick> Should I write that I confirm it?
<charlie-tca> please do
<charlie-tca> I can't confirm my own bug, but I can mark it triaged if you confirm it
<madnick> I wrote that i confirmed it
<madnick> I should perhaps have given more details like me following the steps, but I did not think of that :(
<charlie-tca> That's okay, as long as it happens
<charlie-tca> Thank you very much. 
<charlie-tca> Have a good night, sir
<madnick> :)
<charlie-tca> ouch
<charlie-tca> http://linux.slashdot.org/story/11/10/11/1845226/Linux-Kernel-Developer-Declares-VirtualBox-Driver-Crap?utm_source=rss1.0mainlinkanon&utm_medium=feed
<charlie-tca> http://linux.slashdot.org/story/11/10/11/1845226/Linux-Kernel-Developer-Declares-VirtualBox-Driver-Crap
<charlie-tca> That's better
<charlie-tca> knome: I thought you said topics don't get read?
<charlie-tca> think it will help?
<Unit193> For the 1 in 100 it might
<knome> charlie-tca, no, i said i don't get to read topics :)
<charlie-tca> lol
<knome> charlie-tca, those who join with a GUI client, probably read the topics better
<charlie-tca> That's different, all right. :)
<knome> that's the difference
<knome> just got oneiric installed in my eeepc
<knome> works fine
<charlie-tca> Let's hope. the !notyet factoid is up too now
 * Unit193 thinks less than half
<charlie-tca> !notyet
<knome> charlie-tca, btw, i do have factoid editing rights, if we ever need anything...
<charlie-tca> great. it's +1 only
<knome> heh
<knome> !notyet-#ubuntu+1
<Unit193> !isitout
<ubottu> Nope! Ubuntu 11.10 is scheduled for release sometime on October 13th. You can party in #ubuntu-release-party while you're waiting!
<knome> hmm.
<charlie-tca> I generally try to push the factoids towards you. You are better with them then me
<charlie-tca> oh
<charlie-tca> isitout, huh?
<charlie-tca> I thought that was an alias for notyet
<Unit193> !-isitout
<ubottu> isitout aliases: outyet, isoutouyet, is it out yet, releasetime, isitoutyet, countdown-#ubuntu-release-party - added by LjL on 2008-10-30 01:48:02 - last edited by rww on 2011-10-11 21:35:58
<charlie-tca> no, huh?
<charlie-tca> gonna make my brain hurt
<Unit193> outyet
<charlie-tca> I wrote it down this time
<knome> hehe
<charlie-tca> Now if I don't lose the paper again
<knome> firefox with 2 zoomouts on eeepc is actually quite enjoyable
<charlie-tca> heh, I imagine it is
<knome> one could say the text is quite small... but not me
<knome> the slowness i wanted to get rid of wasn't actually in firefox
<knome> it was the bad wifi driver that dragged down the pageloads
<charlie-tca> Yeah, I have to zoom a few more than two times these days
<charlie-tca> so, you got the driver fixed?
<knome> well, i installed oneiric
<knome> i had lucid
<charlie-tca> :)
<charlie-tca> oneiric has some advantages
<knome> it boots a bit slower i think, but it's okay to use
<knome> it's not my everyday machine anyway
<knome> i think i have to buy a new laptop though
<Unit193> Is -release-party worth it?
<knome> seems like there is something else broken than just the HDD...
<charlie-tca> I thought that one you had was new?
<knome> ah, no ;)
<knome> both the eeepc and the 15" laptop are old
<charlie-tca> Unit193: never tried the channel. bad enough in #ubuntu+1 close to release
<charlie-tca> knome: then it is probably time to replace it
<knome> Unit193, no. people are just asking if it's out, the other people is linking to porn and stupid links saying it's out, and in the end, they all get banned.
<charlie-tca> Unit193: when +1 swells to 1000, I drop it too
<knome> charlie-tca, yeah, i think so. not that i need a new one right now, i just upgraded the graphics card on my desktop...
<Unit193> knome, charlie-tca: Thanks. Only thing that sounds fun is all the banning :P
<knome> that's not funny either actually. because after that, they're all at #ubuntu-ops whining :P
<Unit193> Oh nice... Seems I should be glad I'm only in the secret one :P
<knome> heh :P
<knome> it'll be soon when you're on -ops too
<knome> anyway
<knome> have you seen a problem on oneiric, where part of the n letter is cut out on some text sizes?
<Unit193> Doesn't sound like it from last meeting, but yes. anyway...
<Unit193> Know what size? I could check
<knome> the default terminal font size for example
<charlie-tca> no, is it by chance the actual font doing it?
<knome> it doesn't look intentional, and it's the default font.
<charlie-tca> I don't see it cut off on this fresh install
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/oneiric_font/Screenshot.png
<charlie-tca> it is straight legged
<Unit193> I didn't have that...
<charlie-tca> oh, that's weird. I don't get that here
<knome> droid sans mono 12
<knome> works well now with 9
<charlie-tca> Yeah, mine are complete, with legs to the bottom of the line
<charlie-tca> I even tried in leafpad to see if I could tell a difference. 
<charlie-tca> My terminal preferences show Droid Sans Mono 12 as default
<charlie-tca> knome: that's only the n doing it?
<knome> that actually happens in firefox too in some sizes (and happened in installation too), so i'm wondering if it has something to do with the GPU, but then again, i can't install anything from jockey either
<knome> let me check
<charlie-tca> I would expect m to do it too, but it didn't 
<knome> actually, the problem just disappeared from firefox
<knome> but terminal still has it
<charlie-tca> weird. It has to be something in the GPU then. What about a different font? I know it's a pain to change them, but maybe it is something to do with the way droid draws the letters
<knome> hmm....
<knome> it has something to do with antialiasing
<knome> when i disable that, the legs show up
<knome> from appearance tab fonts, setting hinting to anything else than "slight", the problem disappears
<charlie-tca> That is the GPU, then, isn't it? Most of the systems have to stay on slight to get decent characters
<knome> or changing the dpi works too
<knome> none is a bit bad, but the others look just like slight
<knome> except the letter-spacing is a bit smaller in them.
<knome> which is actually nice
<knome> hmmkay, now i see the problem in firefox again
<charlie-tca> I think firefox is the reason we default to slight hinting. 
<knome> the problem is there with firefox and slight hinting too :)
<knome> i like the panel on bottom. it's a very good guide on what apps to remove :P
<knome> (on eeepc)
<charlie-tca> Okay, I am going rest for a bit
<knome> i should too
<knome> meeting in <13 hours
<knome> err
<knome> <11 hours
<knome> see you tomorrow
<Unit193> Less than 1 for me, adios
<knome> heh :)
<Olbi> I have strange problems on Live 11.10, when I trying to connect with wi-fi I see it, type right pass but system doesnt want to connect it, it refuse and want again type right password
<Olbi> it is weird :/
#xubuntu-devel 2011-10-12
<Olbi> ok, wi-fi works, but system after install freeze :P
<Olbi> firefox has problem with read/write directory. Can't execute security component and I cant browse the web :/
<Pjotr> Hello, I read some of the IRC logs, and I noticed charlie-tca asking this: Does anyone get the "remove the disk and hit enter to continue" prompt on the desktop cd?
<Pjotr> charlie-tca: I didn't get that message, after installing Xubuntu Oneiric from the daily build of yesterday afternoon. The system just froze after ejecting the disk, and needed a hard reset.
<ochosi> hey, did any of you *really* test greybird in oneiric/gtk3-apps? (i only did vbox-testing so far)
<charlie-tca> ochosi: really test as in ???
<charlie-tca> Running full tests on the images in hardware, I did not note any issues
<ochosi> charlie-tca: yes, i meant in a real install
<charlie-tca> All my installs for milestones, including final, are hardware tests
<ochosi> i got a bugreport in #xfce-dev today: http://bubbie.mmassonnet.info/~mike/tmp/greybird-gtk3.2.0.png
<ochosi> but for me the menuitem-prelights always worked and never were pink
<ochosi> so no clue why it's different on archlinux with the same packages...
<ochosi> i just wanted to be sure that this doesn't happen in xubuntu
<charlie-tca> looks like the same issue we get when choosing "Install Xubuntu" from the cd menu
<ochosi> yeah, well if there's a bug somewhere in the theme the widget turns pink
<charlie-tca> If xfce-session is not started, colors are wrong in the installer
<ochosi> and in fact there is a bug, i already know how to fix it. but seemingly xubuntu doesn't care as much about the bug as archlinux, so we don't get it :)
<charlie-tca> or we don't hit the right stuff to see it?
<ochosi> hmm, i don't know. it should happen in every application that uses a menu
<ochosi> i tested a few and they all worked fine
<charlie-tca> Um, I have never seen the pink highlight
<ochosi> good, i guess then we're save for now :)
<charlie-tca> The question should be what is Arch doing wrong?
<davmor2> the issue could be that arch being a rolling release has files either older or newer that is having adverse effects maybe
<ochosi> yeah, probably
<ochosi> i mean basically we're lucky not to have the bug
<ochosi> on the other hand: had it happened in xubuntu i would have noticed and fixed it
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> Considering the number of tests we have run for oneiric, it would have showed up.
<ochosi> yes, i'd say so
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: Do we need to look into marking thunar and nautilus as conflicts? reference bug 872712
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 872712 in xfce4 (Ubuntu) "XFCE4 steals gnome file associations." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/872712
<jarnos> no sound
<charlie-tca> Newest desktop images are ready for testing
<madnick> :)
<micahg> charlie-tca: re thunar and nautilus> I don't think we need a conflicts, I don't have the issue, I think it's a user issue, but don't know enough about either system to prove it, I don' t have the problem on either machine of mine with both unity and xubuntu installed
<charlie-tca> it just seems like we go back and forth. Either nautilus or thunar decides to be the main file manager when both are installed. And it almost never is the one the user wants to be.
<madnick> almost the last image now :)
<Olbi> tommorow final release :D
<charlie-tca> correct
<Olbi> some1 read my post from 2 am central europe time?:P
<Olbi> firefox has problem with read/write directory. Can't execute security component and I cant browse the web :/
<charlie-tca> about the wifi?
<Olbi> wi-fi with livecd doesnt works :P
<charlie-tca> If the wifi is not staying connected, firefox won't work right
<Olbi> after install it is doing well
<Olbi> no, it is wi-fi problem
<Olbi> it was after clean install
<Olbi> i run browser and than appear that msg
<charlie-tca> Is that the certificate is not valid message?
<charlie-tca> I had one and I just told to to confirm the things anyway. It worked after that
<charlie-tca> Olbi: it might an out-of-date mirror
<Olbi> where I can paste img and file?
<Olbi> with this error to show you?
<Olbi> http://hosting.pcmod.pl/view.php?filename=974error1.png
<Olbi> so, what you think?
<Olbi> omg, system freeze :P
<Olbi> again :/
<charlie-tca> looking
<madnick> Since I have no idea how to fill in the QA thing: the 32 bit Desktop image works nice for me but it opens 2 thunar windows when you insert a CD ... Live session: also works :)
<madnick> should i do alternate 32?
<charlie-tca> alternates are good
<charlie-tca> oh, inserting cd when you have a desktop?
<madnick> yes
<charlie-tca> Olbi: check the permissions of ~/.mozilla
<charlie-tca> it might be the user does not own it
<Olbi> strange cause of fresh install, could it be a bug?
<charlie-tca> yes, it could be
<charlie-tca> I would file it, but they will tell you to create a new user profile for firefox and see if it fixes it
<jarnos> I have updated by sudo apt-get update ; sudo apt-get dist-upgrade. Today there was no sound and Flash was not working. Can you expect this be fixed in tomorrow's final release?
<charlie-tca> Olbi: please attach the image to the bug report, too. 
<charlie-tca> It has been, yes
<Pjotr> Countdown! I've added some Xubuntu 11.10 promotion pages to my website (on the average, 400-500 unique visitors a day):
<Pjotr> A general page on Xubuntu 11.10: http://sites.google.com/site/easylinuxtipsproject/xubuntu
<Pjotr> A how-to for turning an existing Ubuntu system into Xubuntu: http://sites.google.com/site/easylinuxtipsproject/alternative
<Pjotr> This Xubuntu is going to be a hit! It's in the air...  :-)
<ochosi> Pjotr: nice website
<Pjotr> Tx... But I won't be the only enthusiast, by far. I expect a huge increase in the Xubuntu user base
<Pjotr> 11.10 will be Xubuntu's finest hour... so far.
<ochosi> :) we'll see, i tend to be moderately optimistic, that way i can't be disappointed so easily
<Olbi> prefinale version works good now :D
<Olbi> but Firefox isnt polished to my language :( that is bad for users
<charlie-tca> Yes, did you make sure language installed fully?
<charlie-tca> take a look in menu -> Settings -> Language Support
<Olbi> charlie-tca: I am sure it :)
<charlie-tca> Olbi: what part besides the dictionary is not translated?
<Olbi> always when it is new firefox, my language isnt support now, but for 7 - 10 days ;P
<Olbi> in Extensions is typed: your language pack is incompatybile with new version :P
<micahg> Olbi: weird, we ship the langpacks with the new version now
<micahg> maybe it's a mirroring issue?
<Olbi> so it is weird :P
<micahg> still weird though
<Olbi> I am looking for answer of it
<charlie-tca> I would suspect mirror, same as the earlier errors
<charlie-tca> For unknown reasons, several of the mirrors are behind this cycle
<Olbi> strange is, that I have firefox-locale-pl :P
<micahg> Olbi: is it the right version, also, how are you upgrading?
<Olbi> I have installed todays LiveCD :D
<Olbi> allmost all of the system is in my language :P
#xubuntu-devel 2011-10-13
<charlie-tca> pleia2: news release at http://2tu.us/3ikb
<charlie-tca> any help appreciated with it.
 * Unit193 reads
<Unit193> Might I say something about s/cd/CD/g and changing it to "...please see the #xubuntu IRC channel on..." ?  (Or just ignore me, either way works)
<charlie-tca> huh?
<charlie-tca> I'm tired. You have to pretty clear for me tonight
<charlie-tca> Okay, maybe I got it now?
<Unit193> Ok, where it says "cd" should it be changed to "CD" and where it says "...please see the #xubuntu IRC channels on..." changed to "...please see the #xubuntu IRC channel on..." (No S on channel since it's one channel)
<charlie-tca> Oh
<Unit193> I could easily be off though...
<charlie-tca> Nope, you are correct, sir
<charlie-tca> Thanks for reading it
<charlie-tca> I am not sure my eyes haven't crossed, so every bit helps
<Unit193> I'm sure she would have fixed it
<charlie-tca> Anything else we should say in that?
<charlie-tca> Unit193: good night, sir. Thanks again for the review.
<Unit193> I have no idea, I'm not one that's godd for that thing
<Unit193> charlie-tca: You're welcome and have a good night!!
<pleia2> poor wiki is crawling already
<pleia2> charlie-tca: I'm wondering if we should include some of the changes in the release announcement?
<pleia2> and I think s/a free spin/a spin
<pleia2> saying "invite you to give it a free spin" feels to me like it's not usually free
 * pleia2 makes some edits
<charlie-tca> sure, we can include some changes
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<charlie-tca> my brain died and I couldn't think
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> ok, made some changes, how is that?
<charlie-tca> just got up, and still can't think
<charlie-tca> Oh, that looks much better
<pleia2> now hopefully they release in the next 4 hours :)
<pleia2> well, 3 would be optimal
<charlie-tca> Yeah, that would be nice
<charlie-tca> They are waiting for last minute things, like canonical updating the wiki, mirrors to finish propogating, etc
 * pleia2 nods
<Olbi_> congrats to final release "D
<Olbi_> http://osworld.pl/2011/10/13/xubuntu-11-10/
<Olbi_> my portal has published info about new version
<knome> with the old logo :O
<Olbi_> http://distrowatch.com/images/yvzhuwbpy/xubuntu.png
<Olbi_> this is new logo?
<knome> well, there is no official new logo with the text under the icon
<Olbi_> but icon I mean :]
<knome> yes, that's the new icon
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork
<Olbi_> now is correct :)
<pleia2> ok, announcement is all htmlized and ready, also have a revision of /get prepped 
<pleia2> so I'll update /get once we get the word, and then post the news :)
<pleia2> release!
<knome> heh
<knome> i need to go
<knome> should leave the house in 20mins and i'm not even dressed yet
<charlie-tca> please release?
<knome> see you later, and have a nice evening (will be back late)
<pleia2> charlie-tca: http://xubuntu.org/get updated, can you eyeball it while I work on the release article?
<charlie-tca> sure
<pleia2> http://xubuntu.org/11.10-release
<charlie-tca> Shouldn't we have something linking to the release notes?
<pleia2> the announcement does
<pleia2> want to add on the /get page
<pleia2> ?
<charlie-tca> Yes, but the announcement doesn't stay for the entire release, the release notes are valid until EOL
<charlie-tca> I think we should. Also, we need to contact On-Disk. They show 10.04 as the latest release.
<pleia2> ok, adding now
<charlie-tca> Guess I will make a note to contact them
<charlie-tca> Thank you.
<pleia2> ok, there
<charlie-tca> Thanks. 
<pleia2> hmm, I don't know how to change the note on the top right of the page
 * pleia2 digs around drupal
<charlie-tca> Congratulations to everyone for Xubuntu 11.10! It is a good release that took considerable efforts to get done :)
<pleia2> (it says "Xubuntu 11.04 released April 28th")
<charlie-tca> I don't know how
<charlie-tca> got to be something for header?
<pleia2> found it, xubuntu.org/admin/settings/site-information
<pleia2> and updated :)
<pleia2> er, ubuntu announcement calls our release url /news/11.10-release
<pleia2> fixed, http://xubuntu.org/news/11.10-release is the real url now
* ChanServ changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | Precise Pangolin is in development | #xubuntu for support | Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu | 2011-10-23 at 22:00 UTC - Election for Project Lead | Testing for Precise begins 2011-11-28
<charlie-tca> I was afraid I would have it wrong
<pleia2> it's correct, I just forgot the /news bit in the custom url
<pleia2> (all our old one had /news/
<pleia2> )
<charlie-tca> Yeah, that's what we went by to put in the notes
<charlie-tca> Thank you again
<Olbi_> thanky you too guys :)
<Pjotr> Hello, there's just one minor issue with the final of the Xubuntu Oneiric desktop CD (32-bit): when you let the CD perform an error check ("check disc for defects" in the boot menu), it doesn't report what the result is, after the check has finished. It only says: "press any key to reboot".
<Pjotr> This bug is Xubuntu only: I've tested the final Ubuntu and Lubuntu Oneiric desktop CD's as well, and they report "no errors found. Press any key to reboot".
<charlie-tca> If the check fails, it tells you that
<Pjotr> charlie-tca: yes, but it should report "no errors found" as well, just like Ubuntu and Lubuntu. Much clearer for the end user.
<Pjotr> No grave issue, but something to keep in mind when work starts on 12.04 Precise Pangolin. :-)
<charlie-tca> It should tell you your cd ejected and hit ENTER to continue too, though
<charlie-tca> when the install is finished
* ChanServ changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Official Xubuntu Support Channel | Xubuntu 11.10 is out! Please get it from http://xubuntu.org/get | Pastes to http://paste.ubuntu.com | Need help and no one around? Get in on the mailing lists at http://lists.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-users | Offtopic: #xubuntu-offtopic
<Pjotr> charlie-tca: install is still going on here, I'll report about that, too.
<charlie-tca> already have. It is in the release notes
* ChanServ changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | Precise Pangolin is in development | #xubuntu for support | Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu | 2011-10-23 at 22:00 UTC - Election for Project Lead | Testing for Precise begins 2011-11-28
<Pjotr> Yes, that bug is still there. The release note is not entirely right, though....
<Pjotr> On my laptop, the system was quite frozen after ejecting the CD. Pressing keys did not help. A hard reboot was needed.
<charlie-tca> All it should take is ENTER, really
<charlie-tca> None of mine froze completely
<Pjotr> Well, that did nothing. I pressed Enter repeatedly, but no show.
<Pjotr> So maybe on some hardware the issue is different
<charlie-tca> could be a different bug for hardware
<Pjotr> The Ubuntu Oneiric desktop CD had no issue at all , on this laptop (I installed Ubuntu first, on another partition)
<scott-work> knome: when you are ready i would like to talk about the ubuntu studio site you were working on
<scott-work> sorry i've been not available but work has been extremely busy
<charlie-tca> Okay, I am taking the rest of today off. Will peek in tomorrow.
<madnick> Hm, upgrade screen froze :(
<madnick> Nope, sorry, infact only the middle button seems to lack action
<chaoticgeek> Good morning/afternoon/night people.
<madnick> :)
<madnick> Seems most mirrors are down
<madnick> Down or not found :\
<madnick> hehe except Russia :)
<plantoschka> hiho
<plantoschka> wrong chann
<plantoschka> but still hi ;)
<madnick> :)
#xubuntu-devel 2011-10-14
<GridCube> !info emesene oneiric
<ubottu> emesene (source: emesene): instant messaging client. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.11.7+dfsg-1ubuntu1 (oneiric), package size 1619 kB, installed size 6612 kB
<madnick> hi GridCube 
<GridCube> :D hello madnick 
<GridCube> :) 
<GridCube> how are you
<GridCube> ?
<madnick> fine :) you?
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> planing on upgrading to 11.10
<GridCube> so im saving some configs and stuff
<madnick> I did that earlier today :P
<GridCube> :D
<madnick> Mirrors were down yesterday
<madnick> 404
<GridCube> i zsyncked the daily images :P
<madnick> oh :]
<GridCube> will use the latest of those
<GridCube> XD
<madnick> So now begins the journey to 12.04 
<madnick> :-O
<GridCube> in about a month
<GridCube> will re-start working on my interface so we can use it this round :D
<madnick> I want to get started on the greeter :D
<GridCube> the most important changes will be, giving users the avility to erase their own reports, changing the way the tests history is shown and giving a simple search function
<madnick> :)
<ochosi> madnick: yeah, looking forward to the revamped lightdm-greeter
<madnick> :-)
<ochosi> (and the new plymouth animation for that matter)
<madnick> yup
<madnick> Too bad we didnt have time
<Unit193> 1
<Unit193> +
<ochosi> yeah, well that tends to happen in projects where people contribute voluntarily and in their free time
<madnick> yeah
<madnick> ochosi: my plans are to make a greeter based on gtk and webkit
<madnick> So one can easily make their own CSS files etc
<ochosi> madnick: sounds ambitious
<madnick> Well, got until April :P
<ochosi> yeah, but other things tend to get in the way
<madnick> a plain GTK greeter is ofc a possible outcome, but its not my goal
<beardygnome> hi guys, hoping someone can help me with onboard
<beardygnome> it opens every time i log in and i can't find how to stop it
<madnick> beardygnome: i think you need to disable gnome services
<madnick> sadly
<madnick> Its a bug afaik
<beardygnome> ok
<GridCube> beardygnome, tried closing whitout saving the session and then reloginging?
<beardygnome> what are the side effects of disabling the gnome services?
<beardygnome> GridCube: i don't save the session when i log out and i always have it closed when i do log out
<ochosi> btw, what are oneiric's known bugs? is there already a list?
<madnick> beardygnome: gnome services are not enabled by default afaik
<beardygnome> ok, that explains why it doesn't happen on my netbook
<madnick> bug 872515
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 872515 in xfce4-session (Ubuntu) "Onboard Keyboard appears on desktop when GNOME Services is checked" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/872515
<genii-around> ochosi: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricOcelot/ReleaseNotes#Known_issues
<ochosi> genii-around: thanks, i meant xubuntu-specific, but nvm
<genii-around> ochosi: Ah
<genii-around> They do have the issues broken down by DE as well
<beardygnome> one other issue i had when updating my desktop was that it pulled in nautilus during the upgrade, which then took control of the desktop on logging in.  anyone else had this?
<GridCube> well :D going down to do a clean install, wish me luck :D
<madnick> GridCube: good luck! :)
<GridCube> :D
<GridCube> :D
<GridCube> xubuntu 11.10 installed and running!
<GridCube> :D everything works so far ! :D awesomest
#xubuntu-devel 2011-10-15
<GridCube> gmusicbrowser is confusing as... what ever
<GridCube> :/ why do you changed exaile for it?
<Unit193> You can install anything you want....
<GridCube> :P i know
<GridCube> i wanted to know why the change
<knome> does anybody know how to fix the problem with migrating to /run?
<knome> i had that yesterday, but after a few hours i decided to do a clean install, because i need this pc soonish
<reon> would it be ok to ask a 11.10 install related question here?
<knome> reon, if it's support, then #xubuntu is the best place
<knome> (more people to answer)
<reon> thanks, not having much luck there though.
<knome> right, kernel stuff
<knome> you could try #ubuntu-kernel too
<madnick> morning
<knome> evening madnick 
<madnick> :)
<madnick> I saw the e-mail nominations just now :)
<knome> :)
<chaoticgeek> Morning everyone.
<knome> hey chaoticgeek 
<Pjotr> Xubuntu Oneiric is gaining in user base in The Netherlands and Belgium: according to a poll, between 17 percent of the forum members who participated in the poll, have chosen to install Xubuntu and not Ubuntu.
<Pjotr> between = more than
<Pjotr> what's more, all Ubuntu-NL forum members who reported about their installation of Xubuntu, are positive. No exceptions.
<Pjotr> Pretty impressive. :-)
<Unit193> I think that's great to hear!
<knome> Pjotr, :)
<Pjotr> you developers did a great job, guys. And it's paying off. 
<knome> good to hear that. hopefully pangolin can be even better. there's been some nasty regressions on the upgrade to oneiric for some :(
<knome> (me being one of those)
<Unit193> +1 to Pangolin being better
<Pjotr> knome: for me, never an upgrade of an older version: clean install FTW...  :P
<knome> i upgraded all the way from hardy or sth up to maverick...
<Pjotr> Each to his own taste of course, but I myself have always acted according to the age-old maxim: for each and every operating system under the sun, a clean install is always best... :P
<Pjotr> I once did an upgrade from Windows 3.11 to Windows 95. Whenever I've dined too heavily, I still tend to have recurrent nightmares about that experience. :-)
<Olbi> :D
<knome> ough :D
<Pjotr> OK people, I have to go now. Take care, and treat yourself to a couple of beers. You've deserved it: Xubuntu Oneiric is a fine piece of work.
<knome> thanks, and have fun :)
<knome> somebody care to change the #xubuntu-offtopic topic?
#xubuntu-devel 2011-10-16
<reon> anybody know if there is a menu editor in the works from upstream?
<beardygnome> reon: I don't know, but have you tried alacarte?
<reon> beardygnome, I made the mistake of just installing it with all it's recommends and now I can't get rid of them, sigh!
<beardygnome> i have switched my lightdm greeter from the unity one to the lightdm-gtk-greeter and now i can't login
<beardygnome> it just loops back to the greeter screen
<beardygnome> any ideas how to debug this?
<GridCube> ochosi, you here?
<ochosi> GridCube: i'm leaving in fact
<GridCube> oh
<ochosi> but shoot
<GridCube> well im seeing a lot of broken icons
<ochosi> to the worst i'll read the backlog and answer tomorrow
<ochosi> where?
<GridCube> http://ompldr.org/vYXU0dQ/pavu.png
<GridCube> example
<GridCube> see the >Clear chat...
<ochosi> yeah, guess that specific headphone-icon is missing in elementary
<GridCube> im getting those on empathy as well
<GridCube> on the + and - symbols
<ochosi> what you can try is extend the "Inherit=" line in elementary-xubuntu's index.theme file
<ochosi> i can look into this in more depth some other time, not today
<GridCube> http://imagebin.org/179323
<ochosi> the question is in which icon themes those icons exist
<ochosi> probably "gnome"
<GridCube> oh, probably yes
<ochosi> elementary decided to drop quite a few icons
<GridCube> :/ oh
<ochosi> and they're focussing on their own OS/distro atm, so i guess at some point we'll have to start looking for something new
<GridCube> well i wanted to let you know
<GridCube> i see
<ochosi> well, xchat is obviously using non-standard "+"-" icons
<ochosi> otherwise they would appear, i'm rather sure
<knome> oh, ochosi is speaking
<knome> ;)
<ochosi> but anyway, more time to speak about that another day
<ochosi> see you everyone!
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> see you
<knome> haha
<knome> yeah, i thought that was too good to be true.
<knome> bah. i wonder where we are with canonical IS
<knome> pleia2??
<neighborlee> Hi ;),,quick question; Is xubuntu ( read a review which stated this but that was a yearish ago ) still mono free and is that meant to be forwarded onto future releases ? ;)
<knome> neighborlee, afaik it is. it's not a definitive goal to keep xubuntu mono-free, but since mono would bring up many dependencies and stuff, it's highly possible that it will not get included
<neighborlee> I need more than 'possible'
<neighborlee> I need to know its purposely gone
<neighborlee> mono is dangerous. as clearly stated by richard stalman of the FSF
<neighborlee> thats my reason basically
<neighborlee> and why I was curious
<neighborlee> :)))
<neighborlee> othewise id have to goto fedora
<neighborlee> sorry to seem anal about it.but I have to know its meant to be gone on purpose ;)
<GridCube> its not
<madnick> I doubt a moral stand is taken on the subject
<GridCube> if for some reason it is thinked to be nesesary it could get in, but its not probable
<Unit193> Simple, sudo apt-get purge mono*   fixed
<knome> neighborlee, the only way to make sure your distro doesn't ever have mono is to create and maintain your own distro
<neighborlee> fedora already has
<neighborlee> they agree apparently with richard stallman of FSF ;)
<neighborlee> I was hoping xubuntu did too ;)
<neighborlee> hence the question :(
<madnick> Fedora even have tutorials on how to properly use Mono :P
<neighborlee> your missing the point my friend
<neighborlee> I meant ,,mono or any mono app, not incuded by default
<neighborlee> I dont care what someone installs later ;)
<knome> it's not a matter of heart for us. if you want to affect/make sure mono is not included, feel free to join the developer community and act
<neighborlee> heart ?
<neighborlee> im not talking about heart..
<neighborlee> Im referencing facts
<neighborlee> you dont know who richard stallman , of the FSF is ?
<knome> i do know, but that's got nothing to do with this.
<neighborlee> of course it does
<neighborlee> he specificallay says to 'avoid mono'
<neighborlee> pretty clear ;)
<GridCube> he says many things
<neighborlee> but anyway..this isn't a arguement..its fact
<knome> he is entitled to is opinion
<neighborlee> he is a foss leader
<neighborlee> faik ;)
<knome> so?
 * GridCube shrugs
<knome> he doesn't lead xubuntu
<neighborlee> I surmised that ;)
<neighborlee> ok thx for info
<knome> no problem.
<GridCube> my country has the biggest worldwide system for giving free computers to school students, stallman said it was EVEEL because it came whit dual boot linux/7
<GridCube> that simple thing says many things about stallman
<neighborlee> excuse me ?
<neighborlee> GridCube, ie ?
<knome> neighborlee, GridCube: #xubuntu-offtopic please, if you want to continue
<neighborlee> :)
<knome> madnick, good job there getting the fellow silent :P
<madnick> haha
 * micahg would've said that the Ubuntu Tech Board has approved of mono, so any derivative is free to include it (it's in the repositories...)
<Unit193> For the record, this is the second derivative he's bothered
<micahg> Unit193: if it gets trollish, you could mention it to the IRC council
<knome> Unit193, ugh. if you don't mind, tell that in -ops-team
<knome> micahg, council too, but -ops(-team) first, much faster response
<knome> micahg, and people can do something for the issue too
<Unit193> knome: Do I have to? They are scary...
<Unit193> micahg: No worse than here/offtopic
<knome> Unit193, they aren't :)
<micahg> knome: sorry, that's what I meant (no caffeine yet today)
<knome> micahg, hehe, np
<Unit193> knome , micahg: Thanks
<knome> Unit193, np :)
<knome> Unit193, thank you
<Unit193> I searched, it was 2011-09-27
<knome> the previous attack?
<Unit193> Not as highkey afaict
<knome> huh?
<Unit193> Worse here, but I'll read it again :P
<marcus_> hello 
<marcus_> some1 here?
<madnick> Yes
<marcus_> Maybe you can help me with a problem I got with xubuntu 11.10
<marcus_> ?
<madnick> #xubuntu is for support, there are more people to help there :)
<marcus_> but if no one answers I need to look somewhere else for help :-)
<madnick> hehe
<Unit193> Next on the list would be either #ubuntu or #ubuntu-beginners
<madnick> (i was not in #xubuntu, sorry)
<marcus_> okay so the problem is this: if I try to mount or open an audio-cd thunar tells me: could not mount audio-cd and place could not be mounted 
<marcus_> in ubuntu 10.10 this is possible
<marcus_> got no clue ?
<Unit193> Well, I hardly ever use CDs, but remote filesystems give an error then they work
<madnick> well, whats the filesystem of an audio cd?
<madnick> bug 159527
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 176507 in network-config (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #159527 [hardy] RTL8185L driver not working" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/176507
<madnick> sorry
<madnick> bug 159627
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 159627 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Audio CD will not mount" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/159627
<marcus_> dont know what filesystem an audio-cd has
<marcus_> okay I will read this launchpad thind
<marcus_> -d+g
<madnick> It was fixed in natty it says
<madnick> But
<madnick> I cannot test it myself
<madnick> (don't have any audio cd's)
<marcus_> you can burn one and then try it :-)
<Unit193> Oneiric is current (Hard to think)
<marcus_> to me it seems it is not fixed
<mr_pouit> it's fixed in thunar >= 1.2, when you have the needed gvfs modules installed
<mr_pouit> (probably gvfs-backends)
<marcus_> gvfs do I get them via synaptics packet manager ?
<marcus_> yes I got it
<marcus_> it works
<marcus_> thank you
#xubuntu-devel 2012-10-08
<knome> ok, i'm off to bed
<knome> see you later
<GridCube> :)
<satop> hello
<smartboyhw> hi satop 
<satop> i upgraded to quantal quetzal beta 2 and experienced a high cpu load of 40% for mountall --deamon
<satop> i upgraded to quantal quetzal beta 2 and experienced a high cpu load of 49 % when trying to start xfdesktop-settings and it does not load it shows up after a 10 or 15 minutes sometimes 
<satop> that are the 2 problems i have currently any idea to fix it 
<satop> rb
<elfy> knome: the post installation tests for xubuntu have all been disabled - that's why they constantly come up archived - do we want them back on or are they off for a reason?
<satop> b
<JoseeAntonioR> Hey guys! I'm organizing OpenWeek for this cycle, and would like to know if any of you would like to volunteer on doing a 30-min session about what you're doing on the team, and how can you contribute to it (by team I mean Xubuntu). Thanks!
<pleia2> ^^ I can't do it since I'll be traveling, so I told him to come here and ask ;)
<knome> elfy, i'll look at it.
<knome> JoseeAntonioR, which days?
<JoseeAntonioR> knome: it's between Wednesday and Thursday, time TBD as per your availability
<knome> this week?
<JoseeAntonioR> oops, forgot to paste the schedule link. nope, Oct 24/25 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/quantal/Timetable
<knome> when do you need to know?
<JoseeAntonioR> the sooner, the better, around this/next week?
<JoseeAntonioR> by Oct 15
<knome> ok
<knome> on which channels are you hanging around?
<JoseeAntonioR> #ubuntu-classroom-backstage would be fine for this
<JoseeAntonioR> or you can send me an email to joseeantonior AT ubuntu DOT com
<knome> ok, i'll get back to you
<JoseeAntonioR> thanks!
<knome> thanks for letting us know of the possibility
<JoseeAntonioR> for sure
#xubuntu-devel 2012-10-09
<GridCube> knome, have you seen this? http://mail.xfce.org/pipermail/xfce4-dev/2012-October/030024.html sounds something xubuntu can really take adventage off :D
<ochosi> GridCube: thanks for reading and hope you'll test it for us :)
<GridCube> :P i dont have dual screens
<leadsled> hello, I have some questions regarding xubuntu 12.10
<pleia2> knome: ended up signing in to RT directly to submit the docs ticket since it doesn't seem to have accepted my last one via email, #20547]
<pleia2> you should have gotten a copy too
<pleia2> and I fly out tomorrow, won't be able to update screenshots and things on the website for release :\
<servaas> xubuntu 12.10 high cpu load for mountall --daemon, gvfs-udisks2-volume-monitor
<knome> pleia2, right. i always log in... :)
<pleia2> sweet, we shall have access \o/
<pleia2> so, how can I grab the html copy of our docs?
<knome> urrrh
<knome> :)
<pleia2> or "make"
<knome> you have the latest branch?
<pleia2> nope, but if you give me instructions I can build it
<knome> ok
<knome> just a moment
<pleia2> is the current at lp:xubuntu-docs ?
<knome> yes
<pleia2> k, branching
<knome> branch that
<knome> then actually just "make" should do it, if you have the dependencies installed
<knome> and in the build-dir you have the different parts of the docs
<knome> basically you are interested in anything !about
<knome> or != about
<knome> and that should be the html export ready to go...
<pleia2> ok cool
<knome> if making doesn't work, poke me
<knome> or simply install gnome-doc-utils, docbook and docbook-utils
<knome> iirc
<pleia2> nah it worked fine
<knome> ok, good
<knome> then you had those packages then ;P
<pleia2> yep
<knome> i'm looking at getting bug 1063453 fixed in Q
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1063453 in xubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "references to 3rd-party intellectual property need to be displayed with trademark" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1063453
<knome> i mean... that's quite... disturbing if we don't get it right
<pleia2> yeah :\
<knome> but that should be fixed in the branch you just pulled
<knome> so at least we've got it right online
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> i'm quite certain we can get it guided through if i have enough energy today/tomorrow
#xubuntu-devel 2012-10-10
<Pakalaka> Hi all are there any know problems relating to the RTL8187 wireless driver in compat-wireless totally hanging xubuntu if you unload and then reload the driver?
<olbi> hello
<olbi> where I could translating Xubuntu documentation from 12.10? and it is possible now?
<knome> hey micahg 
<knome> micahg, are you around?
<micahg> knome: what's up
<knome> micahg, bug 1063453 (see last comment)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1063453 in xubuntu-docs (Ubuntu Quantal) "references to 3rd-party intellectual property need to be displayed with trademark" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1063453
<knome> micahg, we do have that ready for upload
<knome> micahg, do you have the permissions to do that?
<micahg> gah
<micahg> 15 is wrong
<micahg> *r15
<micahg> it should be a new changelog entry on top
<knome> anyway you could handle that?
<micahg> I don't have rights to the branch
<micahg> maybe jbicha could do it
<knome> ok, i'll ask him
<knome> if he does that, will you have upload rights, or should i ask that from him too?
<knome> micahg, or, can i get you access to that branch? >:)
<micahg> knome: he has upload rights for the packge
<knome> micahg, ok, thanks
<knome> trying to get it correct
#xubuntu-devel 2012-10-11
<ochosi> knome: meh: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1043506
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1043506 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "[UIFE][FFE]12.10.5 xubuntu default settings - ubuntu software center icon is the same as Synaptic" [Undecided,Triaged]
<elfy> mmm that bug should be "Running ubuntu software centre installs synaptic and uninstalls itself"
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> is that the official stand of the xubuntu testing lead? :D
<elfy> :p
<elfy> that was hobgoblin 
<ochosi> yeah sure, blame it on each other :)
<elfy> piskie does that all the time ... 
<ochosi> hehe
<Unit193> Stance*
<Unit193> And yep.
<ochosi> Unit193: thanks, i guess it's too early for me :)
<Unit193> :P
<astraljava> elfy: How would that _be_ a bug?
<astraljava> That'd be an improvement.
<astraljava> Anyway, just keep throwing all sorts of weird exception tags on it, I'm sure that'll do it. *smirk*
<micahg> knome: we're oversized again :(
<knome> micahg, meh.
<micahg> only by half a meg or so
<micahg> I can't play with it until later though
<micahg> the no upload solution is to drop a language on i386
<knome> mmh
<knome> yep
<micahg> otherwise, drop something from the seed
<knome> i'm kind of thinking, just do that, and look at the seeds closer on the R cycle
 * micahg could drop a language now
<knome> yeah, that would work for me more than well enough
<knome> we're so close to release that i don't think ninjaish moves are sensible or possible
<micahg> french or german?
<knome> didn't we add german after fr
<micahg> I think so
<knome> then that, and yeah, we did
<micahg> ok, pushed
<knome> thanks
#xubuntu-devel 2012-10-12
<malv> so I am trying to benchmark my matrix multiply function. When I turn on -O3 the time it takes for a billion 3x3 matrix multiplies is 0
<malv> why is this?
<maddernick> compiler optimized something away?
<malv> but what might do that
<maddernick> look at the ASM output
<malv> figured it out
<malv> only seems to compute the matrix if I print it out at the end
<maddernick> its clever like that ;)
<Unit193> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/988485  Anyone hit this_  Seems to be a bit slower, but could be the other things running.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 988485 in AbiWord "Abiword is slow to update the document when typing" [Medium,Confirmed]
#xubuntu-devel 2012-10-13
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseNotes/Xubuntu needs to be worked on
<knome> as does the release notes for our website
<knome> pleia2 is out of the games, so don't count on her doing it
#xubuntu-devel 2012-10-14
<adamzstyle> Hi
<adamzstyle> :)
<ailo> Where is the file which handles default desktop layout, specifically for the panels?
<mr_pouit> the panel config is in /etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/xfce4/panel/default.xml for new users, $HOME/.config/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfce4-panel.xml for existing users
<ailo> mr_pouit: Thanks. Just found it
<skaet> knome, pleia2, and others interested - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseNotes/Xubuntu has been updated to include the info I could find,  please review and add/edit/improve as necessary.    Also,  please add in any bugs, you're particularily worried about your users encountering.   Thanks.
#xubuntu-devel 2013-10-07
<Noskcaj> Why does blueman-applet use 30mb of RAM even though it's never been used in any way and clicking the applet shows an empty menu?
<Noskcaj> I know lightness isn't our main focus, but that is a bit overkill
<Noskcaj> update manager is even worse, using 100mb while waiting for apt to exit, 200 when running apt-get update
<Noskcaj> hey smartboyhw 
<ochosi> Noskcaj: well you can look for light alternatives...
<ochosi> the functionality of those two apps is kinda needed
<ochosi> iirc, a bluetooth-manager for xfce was in the works
<ochosi> i wanted to help with the UI at the time, but then was too busy with other stuff
<ochosi> but you should find info on it in the archives of the xfce4-dev mailinglist
<Noskcaj> ochosi, update manager can't be replaced, but that's a lot of memory. blueman: i'll see what else there is and what happened to the xfce one
<smartboyhw> Noskcaj, hey
<Noskcaj> ochosi, Was this the xfce bluetooth thing
<Noskcaj> https://github.com/ncopa/xfce-bluetooth
<ochosi> yup
<Unit193> Have to like the TODO: "complete this todo list..."
<ochosi> indeed
<Noskcaj> I hope someone finishes it, since blueman is dead upstream
<bluesabre> he was making good progress on it (the bluetooth-manager)
<brainwash> ochosi: bug 1236271
<ubottu> bug 1236271 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "GTK3 applications do not react to scroll wheel input when overlay scrollbars are activated" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1236271
<ochosi> brainwash: thanks, commented
<brainwash> I did not add any of the upstream reports, because they address KDE stuff and somehow lock irrelevant
<brainwash> look
<brainwash> this lp report is like "create and forget about it" :D
<ochosi> hehe
<brainwash> and the network manager not waking up after suspend appears to be systemd/logind related, I was not able to suspend another time after the bug occurred ->Operation already in Progress
<ochosi> hm, so the state really doesnt get reset properly
<brainwash> so my system was stuck in the suspend state while being awake
<ochosi> well that's the bummer with ubuntu, as poettering pointed out they decided to use a stripped down systemd variant so there's not even upstream support
<brainwash> yes, it's basically only logind I think
<ochosi> not sure that is really a good idea, but i guess they *really* want to keep upstart around
<ochosi> yup
<brainwash> to replace consolekit
<brainwash> oh https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=708570
<ubottu> Gnome bug 708570 in gtk "scroll events are not passed from child to parent scrolled window if child is composited" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<brainwash> I did test xfwm4 with and without compositing enabled
<ochosi> but that bug seems to be different, cause i can't confirm: envvar not set: erratic scrolling with laptop touchpad
<brainwash> however, still somewhat related
<brainwash> gtk+3.8
<elfy> brainwash ochosi - so what's an 'overlay scrollbars' and how does one activate it to see this bug
<knome> micahg, so, what does your schedule for this week look like?
<knome> and with that, i got to run
<knome> see you ->
<brainwash> elfy: package "overlay-scrollbar"
<brainwash> it should activate itself once it's installed
<elfy> so we don't have that installed by default then
<brainwash> unity does
<brainwash> it's a low priority bug anyway
<elfy> yea - unity might - I was just wondering what it's got to do with us is all I guess 
<brainwash> some people install the default ubuntu and later xubuntu/xfce side by side
<brainwash> some might even install the package manually
<elfy> indeed they do - but if we use that as a yardstick there are thousands of bugs we need to worry about :)
<elfy> I'm just looking at it from my perspective here of course :)
<brainwash> yes, nobody is forcing you to write a patch for xfwm4 :P
<elfy> :)
<elfy> they can try lol 
<brainwash> an easy workaround does exist, so just forget about that bug^^
<elfy> as qa lead I'm just checking up that things that get mentioned are things I need to think about or if they are things I can forget about 
<brainwash> elfy: this one needs some attention bug 1232027 (I somehow get the feeling, that xubuntu final will ship without pm-utils)
<ubottu> bug 1232027 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "pm-utils not installed by default in 13.10" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1232027
<brainwash> it's still required I guess, to run various hooks
 * elfy wouldn't know - that would be voodoo 
<brainwash> ochosi: testing fedora 20 currently and xfce4-terminal does crash too when I try to open the encoding gtk menu, so it's time for an upstream bug report
<brainwash> ochosi: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/trash7.php
<skellat> Drawing attention to LP Bug #1029426 and its last comment
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1029426 in gnumeric (Ubuntu) "gnumeric menu entry remains in xfce application menu" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1029426
<brainwash> Am I the only one who sees Droid Sans Bold listed twice in the font selection dialog?
<elfy> nope
<brainwash> ochosi: remember the missing restart option? the policy for multi sessions differed... and it also differs for suspend and hibernate
<brainwash> if they change it upstream, it would reveal the hibernate option (lightdm greeter and xfce4 session menu)
<brainwash> I would like this change to be backported (if it gets accepted), but Canonical wouldn't like it I guess :D
<ochosi> brainwash: re:trash icon, i know and basically it's a missing size of the icon, that's all. i can draw it when i have time
<ochosi> i'm not a huge fan of that trash icon though, so...
<ochosi> and i'm pretty sure they won't like to enable hibernation, although as long as it only affects xubuntu, it could be ok
<ochosi> not sure though *we* want that. we haven't discussed that at all and within the canonical team there at least was a discussion
<skellat> ochosi: Wasn't it a matter of safety in terms of disabling hibernation?  If I recall correctly, systems weren't successfully coming out of hibernation at the time the disabling was done.
<ochosi> yeah, i vaguely remember something like that
<ochosi> so without an informed discussion about this, i wouldn't feel good about enabling that by default again
<elfy> same here - for the vague memory, I'd also want a discussion 
<brainwash> would changing the logind policy allow the user to hibernate?
<brainwash> it's somewhat a systemd design flaw
<brainwash> different policies for restart and shutdown (fixed), same for suspend and hibernate
<brainwash> if you are allowed to suspend the system while multiple users are logged in, why is hibernation disabled for the same scenario?
<brainwash> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=70237
<ubottu> Freedesktop bug 70237 in general "logind: Allow active session to hibernate while other sessions are active" [Normal,New]
<pleia2> haz interview http://frostbitemedia.org/node/279
<brainwash> ochosi: due to the current policy it should be possible to hibernate via menu before the first login (lightdm greeter), because this is the only time logind reports that only one session is running and the active user is allowed to hibernate
<brainwash> (without changing any settings)
<ochosi> i thought ubuntu disabled hibernation
<brainwash> how?
<ochosi> well i wouldn't know, i only heard it
<ochosi> i never use hibernation anyway
<ochosi> laptop boots far too fast
<brainwash> I'll request to include that patch.. the change to the restart policy got accepted too :)
<ochosi> have you tested whether the menuitem is there and whether it works after bootup?
<brainwash> changing the policy reveals the menu entry (greeter and xfce logout dialog)
<brainwash> I'll revert it to check if it's there after bootup
<ochosi> ok
<brainwash> can't remember for sure
<elfy> pleia2: nice one :)
<pleia2> elfy: thanks :)
 * elfy was pleased to hear the call for testers :D
<elfy> unsurprisingly ... 
<pleia2> testers++
<elfy> :)
<elfy> poor old qa lead ends up doing the tests himself apparently :)
<elfy> see - I even listened to it 
<brainwash> ochosi: guess I was wrong, hibernation gets disabled somehow.. somewhere.. and changing the logind policy to make sense would enable hibernation despite the initial deactivation (still allowed with root privileges)
<brainwash> back to a more interesting topic, the low res trash icon :)
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> well you can even port the icon to a larger size yourself if you're *really* annoyed by it ;)
<brainwash> it's just a low res icon in a useless tooltip
<ochosi> (or do something else and ask me to do that in return)
<ochosi> well, you've been going on about it for a while though :)
<brainwash> if you want to achieve perfection... :P
<ochosi> i always do!
<ochosi> at least with certain things, but with getting sharp icons i usually do
<brainwash> are you even responsible for this particular icon? or the elementary team?
<brainwash> or are you a member of the elementary team? :D
<ochosi> well, depends on your perspective
<ochosi> i contribute to the elementary icons
<ochosi> but they have a different target audience
<ochosi> while elementary-xfce is (despite its name) usable in all kinds of DEs, elementary is only usable in eOS
<ochosi> there are tons of icons and symlinks missing because they dropped it
<ochosi> (imo a false sense of cleanliness)
<brainwash> ok, and it should be already too late to change icons at this point of the dev cycle
<ochosi> well, depends
<ochosi> on the gravity of the bug
<ochosi> but there's a daily PPA for your viewing pleasure
<brainwash> it's the trash bin!
<brainwash> :)
<ochosi> i guess you meant to say: "it's the trash-bin, stupid!"
<brainwash> maybe I should stop looking for bugs, maybe next time I'll complain about wrong colored pixel =S
<brainwash> almost every bug seems to be fixed now
<ochosi> actually you've really helped a lot fix quite critical and annoying bugs this cycle
<ochosi> a tip of the hat goes to brainwash 
<brainwash> thanks :)
<ochosi> it's well earned
<ochosi> i do hope you stick around, testing is really important and we usually don't have enough people
<ochosi> and more eyes simply see more
<ochosi> as ppl tend to use their pcs for different stuff
<brainwash> I'll improve my coding and debugging skills and even try to contribute to different software projects
<ochosi> sweet
<ochosi> xfce upstream can also use a hand...
<Noskcaj> ochosi, That requires quite a lot of C if i'm correct
<ochosi> Noskcaj: yeah, it's basically all C and gtk
<ochosi> but there is low-hanging fruit still
<ochosi> depends on what you wanna implement
<Noskcaj> If there's any python i'd try to help, but i can't. 
<brainwash> C is easy to learn
<brainwash> hard to master I guess
<Noskcaj> brainwash, I barely understand python, i doubt C is "easy". Also, is xfce C or  C++?
<brainwash> normal C
<ochosi> yeah, whisker-menu is one of the few xfce things i know that is c++
<Noskcaj> I'll look into learning it, maybe in the summer holidays
<ochosi> and it's not part of the core, so..
<Noskcaj> were we going to try and package whiskermenu?
<brainwash> I'm mainly familiar with java and clojure
<ochosi> Noskcaj: it would be good to get it in the archives
<ochosi> i think so far it's only in PPAs
<Noskcaj> ochosi, It's as simple as ask mr_pouit to add it to pkg-xfce. One of the mint devs had it on debian mentors for months but it got ignored
<Noskcaj> oops, i pinged him
<Noskcaj> Well, i've got school now, bye everyone
<ochosi> bye
<brainwash> cya
<ochosi> brainwash: what xfce project do you use enough or what would you pick to work on?
<ochosi> wowza folks, the sync-to-vblank in xfwm4 really smoothes things out (this goes out to all the compton-fans)
<Unit193> Not sure I'm a "fan" but it's used on one computer.
<brainwash> ochosi: I'll start with the appfinder to learn the basic stuff, I rarely use it though
<ochosi> brainwash: appfinder is nice, but somewhat feature-complete
<ochosi> or do you have any special ideas for it?
<brainwash> not yet, it's a nice "little" app to get started I think
<ochosi> mm, tbh i've never looked at the code
<ochosi> so i wouldn't know how "little" it is :)
<brainwash> only did some debugging so far, so I'm not familiar how the app actually works and communicates with other components
<brainwash> how the gui is created and so on
<ochosi> mhm
<Unit193> Annoying that xfrun somewhat lost the history feature when it merged with appfinder.
<ochosi> it does show the history though
<brainwash> it does
<ochosi> and there's an item on the roadmap that says "improve that" iirc
<brainwash> unless you remove .cache after every logout/shutdown -> ~/.cache/xfce4/xfce4-appfinder/history
<Unit193> Yes, just not as usable(?) as before they merged.  Anywho, my brain isn't working well now.
<ochosi> main diff seems to be that you have to wait a split-second for the history to pop up
<ochosi> and you can't force it with arrow-down straight away
<brainwash> just curious.. if xfpm is set to suspend the system on lid close, while logind is triggering the same action (by default according to the config file), will it suspend twice?
<ochosi> brainwash: well that could be part of the problem of the networking not waking up, no?
<ochosi> also, i've noticed that i shouldn't close my lid during shutdown
<ochosi> as it stops the shutdown, goes to sleep, when i open the lid again it continues to shut down the system
<ochosi> rather annoying actually
<brainwash> ochosi: I haven't closed the lid for like a month or so
<ochosi> i also don't do it that often
<ochosi> mostly when shutting down or packing up
<brainwash> there is a known issue with userspace suspending in kernel 3.11.whatever and systemd 207
<brainwash> segfaulting
<brainwash> mainly affecting the arch users
<ochosi> well it does work
<ochosi> it's just annoying that it intercepts shutdown
<brainwash> I added systemd to the list of affected packages, but didn't comment yet.. and pitti marked systemd as invalid =S
<brainwash> not easy to tell, what is actually going on... like who tells nm to change its state
<brainwash> awake <-> sleep
<brainwash> logind? upower?
<ochosi> not sure
<brainwash> ah, found something interesting while reading the upower changelog
<brainwash> "* Add alternative systemd dependency instead of just hard-depending on pm-utils. With logind, upower defers suspend to logind instead of calling pm-*, this allows us to not install pm-utils with systemd.
<brainwash> "
<brainwash> that would explain, why pm-utils is missing in the xubuntu iso
#xubuntu-devel 2013-10-08
<brainwash> ochosi: bug 1196752 makes me think "what the heck is goind on?!"
<ubottu> bug 1196752 in systemd-shim (Ubuntu) "Suspend only works once when using upower with logind -- s-shim needs to call /lib/systemd/system-sleep/*" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1196752
<brainwash> ah, so nm relies on upower which relies on logind...
<brainwash> screw this mess :)
<olbi> hi guys
<elfy> morning olbi 
<olbi> again in my Xubu 13.10 Beta doesn't work restart button after upgrades :P
<astraljava> Does anyone know how to enable 256 in saucy's xfce4-terminal?
<astraljava> Setting the normal compatibility (xterm-256color) will not work, complains about not finding the correct info from /etc/termcap (which is correct, as there is no such file).
<astraljava> Hmm... ok, so it is there by default, but still my weechat looks off.
<astraljava> Right, just needed to export a $TERM, so that ssh knew about it.
<brainwash> olbi: does the shutdown button work?
<olbi> normal button works
<olbi> but after updates, when dialog option for restart appears, that button doesn't work
<olbi> i will check it one more time, in new machine
<brainwash> ok, so it's the update-manager
<brainwash> bug 1232363
<ubottu> bug 1232363 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Update Manager Restart button fails on xubuntu" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1232363
<elfy> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/1232363
<elfy> ninja'd by brainwash 
<brainwash> just found this report, is it really xubuntu-specific?
<elfy> no idea tbh brainwash - I forgot I posted it
<brainwash> did the button fail or the did the system fail to restart after pressing the button?
<elfy> press the button - nothing happens
<elfy> got an oldish ubuntu iso - will try that in a vm
<olbi> brainwash: thx for the bug :)
<elfy> brainwash: restarted ok in ubuntu
<brainwash> olbi: any error messages in ~/.cache/upstart/startxfce4.log ?
<brainwash> ideally you would need to check the log file after pressing the button
<brainwash> or start the update-manager inside a terminal window to get the error output
<olbi> only xfce4-indicator-plugin errors
<elfy> just doing that in the vm - hopefully it'll be looking for a restart
<brainwash> without any information other than "button does not work" it will take some time to find out why it fails :(
<olbi> if there will be some updates that need restart then I will save the errors
<elfy> brainwash: ok - so pressing restart pointlessly - adds nothing to startxfce4.log 
<brainwash> and starting it inside a terminal window?
<brainwash> update-manager I think
<elfy> says nothing after the button is pressed
<elfy> I'll leave the vm open in the same state in case you can think of anything to check
<elfy> though it does give this in terminal - when it starts - "warning: could not open /var/cache/debconf/passwords.dat: Permission Denied"
<elfy> but that makes sense as at that point it's not had a password 
<elfy> bluesabre: yep - did that - works fine - commented in bug 1193621
<ubottu> bug 1193621 in parole (Ubuntu) "parole crashed with SIGSEGV in parole_plugin_player_finalize()" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1193621
<bluesabre> thanks elfy
<elfy> no - thank you :)
<bluesabre> dvd support seems messed up in 13.10
<bluesabre> there is no /dev/dvd
<bluesabre> and symlinking it to sr0 doesn't make it work for totem or parole
<bluesabre> though vlc figures it out
<knome> i've always had the same problems with that
<knome> i mean, with parole, and other apps as well
<bluesabre> this is the first time for me, it's always worked pre-13.10
<olbi> that's why I'm using VLC :D
<knome> think that's something that should be fixed on a larger scale; eg. if /dev/dvd doesn't work, and a dvd is recognised, it should be created so it works
<bluesabre> agreed
<brainwash> elfy: used update-manager to fetch the latest updates and the restart button did trigger a restart of my system, so I can't confirm this issue
<elfy> mmm
<elfy> odd then 
<elfy> brainwash: you did that in a vanilla install or in one you've been fiddling - another reason I wish I'd remembered this morning, then I'd have done it in a vanilla and this one
<brainwash> elfy: my test installation (2 weeks old already, bloated with every DE and all the top 100 applications)
<elfy> I'd assumed so :)
<elfy> same issue on this - fiddled about with things over the last couple of weeks - so no idea if doing so clears the issue
<brainwash> it seems to only to affect a small range of users (2?)
<elfy> at the moment :p
<elfy> I know I tend to actually only use update manager now and again to test it
<elfy> I'd imagine lots of people update/grade with apt-get
<elfy> at least lots of those during pre-release
<elfy> posting it on the forum see if anyone else see's it
<jjfrv8> elfy, I me too'd bug 1232363. I saw it during by b2 testing, but thought I had mis-clicked something so I didn't report it.
<ubottu> bug 1232363 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Update Manager Restart button fails on xubuntu" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1232363
<jjfrv8> bluesabre, I've been playing with the Parole docs on docuwiki and have a couple of questions.
<elfy> jjfrv8: ta
<brainwash> maybe dbus related, but update-manager should throw a timeout error in case there is a communication problem
<jjfrv8> Just ran update-manager from the terminal.  Called for a restart. It won't.
<jjfrv8> I also had a problem right after launching it.  It said it couldn't download the repository information and to check my internet connection.
<jjfrv8> That's happened the last few times I've run it.
<jjfrv8> If I run it anyway, it works.
<jjfrv8> A couple of errors and lots of warnings showing in the terminal.
<elfy> permission errors - they make sense to me - you're not running it as root and it's after root stuff
<jjfrv8> ok. The errors are "root:Could not find any typelib for Dbusmenu" and same thing for "Unity"
<elfy> debconf: DbDriver "passwords" warning: could not open /var/cache/debconf/passwords.dat: Permission denied
<elfy> and I see those errors and the warning 
<jjfrv8> yup
<elfy> I'm glad someone I know sees the same thing - I hate when you get a confirmation and have no idea who it is :p
<brainwash> same here, but it did restart
<jjfrv8> Here's that warning I get every time I run update manager now: imagebin.org/273088
<jjfrv8> Never mind. I see why that is.
<elfy> pebkac ?
<elfy> :)
<jjfrv8> ?
<elfy> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pebkac#Acronyms_and_other_names_for_a_user_error
<jjfrv8> that's the one. :(
<elfy> happens all the time here :)
<jjfrv8> bbl
<ochosi> elfy: i can confirm that bug as well. restart doesn't work
<ochosi> brainwash: that bug exactly confirms what was said earlier: ubuntu transitions to new systems too quickly and sometimes a bit recklessly
<ochosi> although you can argue that this is not LTS so they can experiment and fix it for 14.04
<elfy> thanks ochosi 
<elfy> I've subscribed us to it now 
<ochosi> thanks
<micahcowan> laptop lid suspends, no matter what I tell it in the settings manager.
<micahcowan> Installed via USB startup disk, but /home is a separate partition, so any existing user config from previous (raring) install would be carried over, if that's part of the problem.
<micahcowan> (this is probably wrong chan, which is right? is there a #xubuntu+1 or similar? apologies for the noise)
<brainwash> micahcowan: edit /etc/systemd/logind.conf
<micahcowan> Tried that... do I also have to run some "service restart foo" thing to get it respected, or ought that to have "just worked"?
<micahcowan> And, if it doesn't work, does that mean the problem lies with g-s-d rather than systemd/logind?
<micahcowan> (HandleLidSwitch=ignore)
<brainwash> and you removed the '#' also, right?
<ochosi> micahcowan: with settings-manager, you're referring to the powermanager's settings, right?
<micahcowan> yes
<micahcowan> nm about g-s-d, that'd be gnome-specific wouldn't it :D
<brainwash> indeed
<micahcowan> Does the powermanager setting store somewhere under ~/.config or something? I'd be happy to blow that away and reload the settings, in case it's having issues with differences in text format between raring and saucy, or something...
<ochosi> no, that's in an xml file
<micahcowan> and yes, I removed the #. Is it reread automatically by logind, or do I need to "bump" it?
<ochosi> you can use the "settings editor" to double-check on the config
<ochosi> bbl
<micahcowan> IIRC, some select boxes were "blank", rather than having the proper settings, so I have a suspicion the XML format for those settings may have changed... where are they located?
<micahcowan> (but even after setting them properly, they don't seem to be taking effect)
<brainwash> regarding logind, check the output of "gdbus introspect --system --dest org.freedesktop.login1 --object-path /org/freedesktop/login1 --only-properties"
<micahcowan> Hm, appears to be suspend
<micahcowan> Okay, got it
<micahcowan> Did "sudo service systemd-logind restart", and now those readings look right
<micahcowan> ...and laptop lid didn't kill my xchat session, so that's a good sign :)
<micahcowan> now, is it still a sign of "something wrong" that logind's settings get used directly, rather than xfce4-power-manager-settings handling things when it's running?
<micahcowan> And, for my future reference, is there a support channel for development releases, so I'm not pestering developers in the development channel next time...
<brainwash> nothing is actually wrong, it's not configured properly
<micahcowan> Thanks for your help
<brainwash> yea, try #ubuntu+1
<micahcowan> They'll handle Xubuntu-ish questions too, then? (I realize that logind is general, but xfce4-power-manager-settings isn't, and my understanding is that the desktop power manager is meant to trump logind, or something... at least from the banter on Malone)
<brainwash> well, logind is new and still no integrated fully
<brainwash> apps still rely on upower instead of calling logind
<brainwash> it will be sorted soon, but sadly not in time for the final release of 13.10
<micahcowan> Ah, that's good information to have.
<micahcowan> Yeah, no big surprise there. Maybe it'll make it into 13.10.1.
<micahcowan> So long as I have the workaround... it was getting damned annoying losing my ssh and IM and all that, every time I close my lid :) ...I really appreciate the help.
<brainwash> 13.10 is somewhat like a experimental ground for the next LTS release
<brainwash> glad we could help you :)
<Unit193> Well crap, shouldn't have updated.
<knome> hm?
<elfy> I found that once 
<Unit193> It's doing fairly good at showing the desktop background, but not much else.  Crash on startup, dbus-daemon...
<Unit193> And xfce4-power-manager.  Also a random permission denied message, but don't know what for.
<Unit193> Okay.... So downloaded https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dbus/1.6.12-0ubuntu6 and seems to be working now...
<Unit193> Ah, the other computer hasn't updated to the new one, it's still on 7.  Can anyone confirm that 8 does "bad things" with them?
<brainwash> 8 is addressing some apparmor issues
<brainwash> so disable apparmor temporary
<Unit193> That's what the changelog said, yeah.  I downgraded, worked.
<brainwash> time to file a bug report
<Unit193> But it's not hit you?
<brainwash> I'm behind with updates, so still on 7
<Unit193> Oh gosh I'm terrible with reports. :/  Bug #1237059
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 1237059 could not be found
 * Unit193 wonders how long it'll take before it gets marked "invalid"
<brainwash> does the report even exist?
<Unit193> Yes, something marked it as "Private"
<brainwash> oh, does it contain private data?
<Unit193> Thought apport retracer was going to do something.  It has some logs which seemed fine, and a dump I didn't open.
<brainwash> So I guess I'll wait before updating dbus :D
<Unit193> Nooo, update and confirm! :P
<brainwash> I better don't mess with dbus anymore
<DJJeff> Thunar and mousepad keep freezing and locking up due to libglib2.0-0  (2.38.0)
<bluesabre> jjfrv8: what questions do you have?
<Unit193> brainwash: Marked https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1237059 public now, retracer took too long and nobody else was sub'd.
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1237059 in dbus (Ubuntu) "dbus-daemon crashed with SIGSEGV" [Undecided,New]
<brainwash> bookmarked it (just in case I'll need it tomorrow after grabbing the dbus update)
<brainwash> ochosi: check the last comment https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=70237
<ubottu> Freedesktop bug 70237 in general "logind: Allow active session to hibernate while other sessions are active" [Normal,New]
<brainwash> ochosi: it's ok for the active user to reboot/shutdown and suspend while other sessions are running, but not to hibernate
<ochosi> brainwash: yeah, hf discussing with poettering ;)
<brainwash> ochosi: he did change the policy for restarting almost instantly though
<ochosi> yeah, not sure why
<brainwash> and I still don't know why ubuntu reports that the user is not allowed to hibernate..
<brainwash> what the heck did canonical implement?! :)
<ochosi> i'd just ask them (=the desktop team)
<brainwash> oh, by the way, did you find a minute or so to compile appfinder (git or with that one gdbus commit)?
<ochosi> hm sorry not yet
<ochosi> a mix between not having time and having forgotten about it, tbh
<brainwash> just wait until you open the appfinder next time... the 5sec delay will remind you of this for sure :)
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> well i use the workaround currently ;)
<ochosi> i thought it'd be more convenient to do that, and to ask nick to do a 4.11 release of appfinder asap the next time i see him online
<brainwash> is he busy?
<ochosi> (i thought that was what we silently agreed on)
<ochosi> well, i guess for one he started focussing on other things in his life, which is fair enough
<ochosi> and the other issue is he works a lot
<ochosi> or has to
<brainwash> hopefully he can find some time to fix this https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10395
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10395 in General "Terminal crashes when opening the encoding submenu" [Normal,New]
<brainwash> because I feel the urge to try again and debug this strange segfault
<brainwash> it deserves to be fixed before the final release (or shortly after)
<brainwash> desktop team -> #ubuntu-desktop ?
<ochosi> yeah, i'd say so
<ochosi> although not everyone in that channel might be in the team
<knome> well most probably not.
<ochosi> yeah, i was being sarcastic ;)
<Unit193> ...There's a 'scroll window up' button now too? 0_o
<ochosi> ?
<ochosi> you mean in xfwm4?
<Unit193> Yeah, so weird.
<ochosi> it was always available, but it's not there by default
<Unit193> https://www.dropbox.com/s/78vavqy4kbvdwyr/weird-buttons.png?m welp, didn't update the theme. :P
<ochosi> every xfwm4 theme can decide/define in the theme file what buttons should be there
<Unit193> brainwash: Dangit, looks like it's my kernel. >_<
<brainwash> Unit193: o.o
<brainwash> ochosi: bug 1237134
<ubottu> bug 1237134 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] light-locker -- lightdm-based session locker" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1237134
#xubuntu-devel 2013-10-09
<ochosi> brainwash: mm, nice
<Unit193> Hrm, did another update and just now am pulling in the new apparmor, so now it seems like dbus was pulled in before the apparmor update, causing issues?
<brainwash> Unit193: quite possible
<brainwash> ochosi: /var/lib/polkit-1/localauthority/10-vendor.d/com.ubuntu.desktop.pkla
<jjfrv8> bluesabre, one question is about tags not working. I'm using the Xfce Terminal doc as an example, per ochosi's suggestion.
<jjfrv8> When I use tags like gui, key an figure on your playground, they don't do anything.
<jjfrv8> and
<ochosi> jjfrv8: oh, it's possible that the xfce-wiki uses extensions that bluesabre hasn't installed yet on his dokuwiki
<ochosi> so don't worry, they'll show up in the real docs
<jjfrv8> But I can't preview them then? :(
<ochosi> i think we'll figure out what extensions are needed and install them asap
<knome> wait, what tags?
<knome> should the wiki support docbook stuff?
<knome> or is that even the final format
<ochosi> jjfrv8: could you point me to an example tag?
<jjfrv8> Can you look at what I've got in the playground?  Those three tags I mentioned I copied right from the Terminal doc.
<jjfrv8> 'gui', 'key', 'figure'
<ochosi> okies
<ochosi> will check up on what is needed for those
<jjfrv8> Cool.
<ochosi> you know you need to use Sean's PPA for the latest parole version?
<ochosi> or in general, do you have any other questions wrt parole docs?
<jjfrv8> Yeah, I've got that on my test machine. 
<jjfrv8> the only other question was how can I delete stuff from the media manager on the wiki. Didn't see any option for that.
<jjfrv8> As for the content, I'm not far enough along to have any questions there yet.
<ochosi> that might be something only the admin (sean) can do
<jjfrv8> I thought I would start with something easy, like configuring preferences.
<ochosi> but i'm not sure, anyway, i wouldn't worry about that too much
<ochosi> sounds cool
<jjfrv8> Okay, I just put some non-xubuntu images up there and didn't want you wondering what the heck that was all about.
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> don't worry about those
<Unit193> brainwash: 1.  Nope, not (just) the late packages.  2. Saucy generic kernel is required, liquorix and one from kernel.org won't do.  You're safe to upgrade. :/
<brainwash> Unit193: one does not simply use a non-ubuntu kernel :P
<Unit193> brainwash: Guess not in saucy, I had to all during raring though...
<brainwash> so the bug report is not valid then I guess
<ochosi> jjfrv8: ok, gotta head to bed now, just ping bluesabre or me if you run into problems
<jjfrv8> Thx, ochosi.
<ochosi> np, thank you!
<Unit193> This, this is part of the reason I should _never_ do bug reports. >_<
<knome> pleia2, actually lately, we keep the keys to respinning and stuff ;)
<Unit193> brainwash: Yes.
<Unit193> Hopefully I don't come off as a total idiot. :/
<brainwash> Unit193: don't worry :)
<knome> pleia2, nooo, no changing color wall ;)
<brainwash> the report might help other users facing the same issue
<Unit193> Hope so. :/
<ochosi> jjfrv8: just as a final mention before i go, the format will remain dokuwiki, not something like docbook (just to be clear)
<jjfrv8> I think I'm with you there. I was following the dokuwiki syntax guide.
<pleia2> knome: aw, no?
<knome> pleia2, nah. :)
<pleia2> oh well :)
<knome> yeah.
<knome> we're planning it for 14.04 though, since that still needed work...
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> but +1 for the interview generally
<knome> should we social-mediaize that?
<pleia2> thanks :)
<pleia2> yes, we probably should!
<knome> tweeted
<pleia2> g+ed and fbed
<knome> cool
<knome> found this via linkedin: http://ajreissig.hubpages.com/hub/UPGRADING-A-TEENS-LAPTOP-WITH-XUBUNTU#!
<pleia2> shall we add it to 12.10 page?
<knome> yeah, why not
<knome> i think it's a different story
<knome> (than the usual)
 * pleia2 nods
<Unit193> brainwash: Heh, he changed it from Invalid to In Progress, interesting.
<bluesabre> ochosi: maybe if we catch nick we can see what extensions he has installed in dokuwiki (or other tweaks) to make it work that way?
<bluesabre> gotta go, bbl
<Unit193> Hah, and now the retracer is done. :P
<micahg> trying to get packages up
<micahg> I'm having trouble with xfce4-panel
<micahg> I have libxfce4ui and I think the indicator will build if I can get the panel to build
<Unit193> Yeah, blues had the problem with the panel as well.
<micahg> ochosi: I've got libxfce4ui, but seem to be failing with xfce4-panel https://launchpad.net/~micahg/+archive/patch-test/+packages
<micahg> ochosi: here's what I have http://people.ubuntu.com/~micahg/xfce4-panel/
<micahg> I can't seem to get configure working
<Unit193> Seems you're missing a few build-deps, you're also on the wrapper3 branch I'd assume.  They seem to have switched something, and when I gave a shot at it I had to change something, not sure if I just called ./autogen.sh or not though.
<Unit193> I don't remember if ido was for the xfce4-indicator-lugin or panel.
<Unit193> libido-0.1-dev, libido3-0.1-dev, xfce4-dev-tools, gtk-doc-tools, libtool, exo-utils   is what blues had, and I remember being annoyed that I had to get the gtk docs for it to be happy about missing parts.
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/+archive/xfce-4.12-daily/+sourcepub/3527905/+listing-archive-extra anyway.
<ali1234> micahg: your xfce4-panel package has no configure script in it, the one from the repos does
<ali1234> so i think you need to run autogen.sh before creating the orig.tar.gz
<Noskcaj> ochosi, I've just added whiskermenu to the pkg-xfce SVN, provided one of the DDs approve, it will be in unstable by the end of the minth
<ochosi> cool
<brainwash> was there a discussion about backporting the vsync patch for xwfm4 (after the drop of xmir)? a tear-free desktop, that's what most people want
<bluesabre> I need to file a bug report about that
<bluesabre> I am actually getting more tearing now
<bluesabre> didn't have a tearing problem before
<brainwash> bluesabre: graphics driver related?
<bluesabre> brainwash: maybe
<bluesabre> Graphics:  Card: NVIDIA G98M [Quadro NVS 160M]  X.Org: 1.14.3 drivers: nvidia (unloaded: fbdev,vesa,nouveau) Resolution: 1280x800@60.0hz, 1440x900@59.9hz  GLX Renderer: Quadro NVS 160M/PCIe/SSE2 GLX Version: 3.3.0 NVIDIA 319.32
<olbi> hello guys, I'm now testing Xubu 13.10 on Sapphire Edge-HD4, still there are errors like sound and update-manager without working restart button :D
<knome> olbi, have you send test reports and filed bugs?
<knome> *sent
<olbi> those were sent before and aren't fixed yet :)
<brainwash> just used update-manager to get the latest updates, pressed the restart button and it worked
<brainwash> bug 1232363
<ubottu> bug 1232363 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Update Manager Restart button fails on xubuntu" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1232363
<elfy> brainwash: was still failing for me this morning
<brainwash> elfy: even when booting into live mode?
<brainwash> (I assume you've already tested it)
<elfy> oh not checked that 
<brainwash> so basically a fresh installation
<elfy> checking
<brainwash> I tried it reproduce this issue yesterday, fired up my vm, booted into live mode and applied some updates.. and my virtual display turned into ascii art
<brainwash> did not try a secoond time :)
<elfy> :)
<brainwash> elfy: is the package "consolekit" installed on the affected system?
<brainwash> that might explain it
<brainwash> I'm pretty sure something pulled consolekit on my test system
<elfy> not here
<elfy> vm fails to restart - I'll install consolekit
<brainwash> lxde I guess, so yea.. update manager requires gnome session manager (running) or consolekit to restart
<brainwash> but consolekit is deprecated
<brainwash> and xubuntu does not ship it anymore (logind is now used for tasks like restart/shutdown/..)
<elfy> bah
<elfy> not going to be looking now 
<elfy> so another related issue for us then
<brainwash> so installing consolekit does solve it?
<elfy> not sure - I'd restarted it 
<elfy> will wait till the next one
<olbi> n
<brainwash> it would explain, why only xubuntu is affected
<elfy> well - anyone affected will have need for a restart in it given the kernel update
<elfy> ochosi: if you've not updated - can you see if you have consolekit installed, if not install it then try update manager
<brainwash> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/saucy/update-manager/saucy/view/head:/UpdateManager/Dialogs.py#L275
<brainwash> feel free to add a comment
<brainwash> gtg now
<brainwash> comment added
<slickymaster> brainwash, elfy: FWIW: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2179438&p=12811690&viewfull=1#post12811690
<brainwash> woot
<brainwash> slickymaster: open a terminal and run "dbus-send --system --print-reply --dest=org.freedesktop.ConsoleKit /org/freedesktop/ConsoleKit/Manager org.freedesktop.ConsoleKit.Manager.Restart"
<brainwash> (it will restart your system eventually)
<brainwash> but consolekit is NOT the problem, it's the missing support for logind
<slickymaster> brainwash: just rebooted. Is there any steps further you'd like me to do?
<brainwash> slickymaster: no, now we just need to wait for the update-manager dev(s) to provide a patch/fix :)
<slickymaster> brainwash: Just curious, did I send any kind of a report with that command?
<brainwash> no, it is just a dbus call
<brainwash> telling the consolekit daemon to restart the system
<slickymaster> brainwash: tks
<brainwash> but a fresh installation of Xubuntu 13.10 does now rely on logind instead of consolekit, so this call would do return an error message
<slickymaster> brainwash: thanks for the explanation
<jjfrv8> elfy, brainwash, not sure if you still wanted this tested or not. I just installed consolekit, ran update manager and restart button worked.
<brainwash> jjfrv8: thanks for confirming :)
<brainwash> however, installing consolekit is an ugly workaround, remove it after the issue has been fixed
<ochosi> brainwash: is there already a bugreport for the update-manager restart issue?
<ochosi> (this must affect ubuntu-desktop as well if it's really missing support for logind)
<brainwash> bug 1232363
<ubottu> bug 1232363 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Update Manager Restart button fails on xubuntu" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1232363
<ochosi> ok great
<ochosi> we could link that to our devel blueprint
<brainwash> unity is using gnome-session-manager I assume
<brainwash> lubuntu is still pulling consolekit
<brainwash> and Kubuntu... mmh
<ochosi> hmpf
<brainwash> is using another updater
<ochosi> so it's our problem now
<brainwash> yes, easy fixable
<brainwash> maybe it's time again to ping one of the ubuntu devs :)
<brainwash> which one do I choose today..
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> yeah, please do that
<ochosi> i mean after all, even for them going through logind makes more sense (imho)
<brainwash> and it needs to be fixed before final release
<brainwash> or maybe not
<knome> so have we confirmed the fix for bug 1232363 is seeding the package 'consolekit' ?
<ubottu> bug 1232363 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Update Manager Restart button fails on xubuntu" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1232363
<knome> or, is there another preferred solution, and would that mean we would have to do the heavy lifting ourself?
<knome> and is there a reason not to add consolekit?
<brainwash> is is deprecated and replaced by login
<brainwash> logind
<brainwash> one more time: it is  deprecated and replaced by logind :)
<knome> lol, oki
<knome> then it's a bit more complicated
<brainwash> the only complication would be to find a dev who is not busy
<knome> well, yes...
<brainwash> I assume everyone of them is kinda busy right now before the RC release
<knome> when did this bug appear?
<knome> or, when was consolekit dropped?
<knome> if it's not a recent change, then it is hard to justify asking others to fix it (since unfortunately, we should've noticed it before)
<brainwash> 2013-07-01
<brainwash> "don't recommend consolekit anymore"
<knome> mhm
<knome> yeah, we should've spotted that earlier
<ochosi> yeah i guess
<ochosi> but it could've been fixed by ubuntu too
<ochosi> i mean update-manager is kinda their app and they also made the switch to logind
<ochosi> so it's not *totally* uncalled for to ask them to patch
<knome> yep
<ochosi> but really, it should be more or less a one-liner i'd presume, no?
<knome> but it *is* the last day before final freeze
<knome> no idea.
<brainwash> it's basically copy&paste
<brainwash> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/saucy/update-manager/saucy/view/head:/UpdateManager/Dialogs.py#L275
<brainwash> so I don't bother to submit a patch, because it is easy fixable
<knome> it is not clear to me how it's copy&paste (i'm not a developer though) and i would say a patch always helps
<ochosi> well if you submit a patch, chances are higher that someone will upload it
<knome> it's much easier to review a patch than look and dig into the issue
<knome> yep, and if we have a patch it's easier to ask people
<brainwash> right
<olbi> hi
<olbi> did you have problems with USC while trying to install programs and USC crash? :)
<olbi> Xubuntu 13.10
<ochosi> sry, i hardly ever use USC
<brainwash> ochosi: try http://lpaste.net/94086
<ochosi> brainwash: patch looks good, will try after dinner
<brainwash> a dev would still need to mark consolekit as deprecated, maybe change the order of calls and add some sort of warning if all methods fail... the last point it actually the reason, why it took so long to resolve this issue
<knome> olbi, have you filed a bug?
<brainwash> bug 1230123
<ubottu> bug 1230123 in software-center (Ubuntu) "software-center crashed after installing software" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1230123
<brainwash> noticed some occasional crashes too
<gdos> bug 1237594
<ubottu> bug 1237594 in xfce4-terminal (Ubuntu) "The U+0001 control character is output in terminal" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1237594
<knome> bbl
<skellat> knome: When you have the time, could you please adjust LP Bug #1237396 to Low & Wishlist as it is something we could carry over to UDS discussions probably
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1237396 in abiword (Ubuntu) "Set Open Document ODT as default save format instead of ABW" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1237396
<brainwash> anyone else available to test this (untested) patch http://lpaste.net/94093 ?
<brainwash> make sure that consolekit is not installed
<ochosi> brainwash: sorry, i'm still a bit busy, but i'll test it tonight
<brainwash> ochosi: no worries
<brainwash> everyone can test it, it's python, so no need to compile anything
<Unit193> Sadly, python. ;P   I may be able to try in a VM at some point.
<brainwash> python is great, just take a look at the u-s-c...
<brainwash> :P
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> brainwash: guess now i have to wait for updates that demand a reboot...
<ochosi> (just installed a new kernel rev...)
<brainwash> remove the kernel and the update manager will gladly download it again :)
<Unit193> Should already be cached in /var/cache/apt/archives/
<brainwash> right, so no need to even redownload it
<Unit193> But, you will have to re-install linux-image-generic as it depends on the latest kernel.
<Unit193> There's a new dbus in proposed. :P
<brainwash> how about a test package which requires a reboot? :)
<Unit193> Anywho, if you want me to confirm I can fire up a VM.
<brainwash> feel free to test it
<knome> skellat, done
<Unit193> Eh, the raw doesn't download right, but good enough.
<Unit193> brainwash: Crashed, but didn't even download anything. :P
<Unit193> Normal, right?
<brainwash> Unit193: no
<brainwash> the raw? and what exactly did crash and at which point?
<ochosi> brainwash: ok, testing now, in 3, 2, 1...
<ochosi> crashed.
<ochosi> the update-manager i mean
<brainwash> when starting it?
<ochosi> when trying to reboot ofc
<ochosi> update-manager crashed with Typeerror in call_blocking(): More items found in D-Bus signature than in Python arguments
<ochosi> did your patch work for you?
<brainwash> untested
<brainwash> I'll try a small test app.. first time actually writing python code
<ochosi> well, good practice :)
<ochosi> brainwash: patch-bounty: if you get a working patch for update-manager to the bugreport and someone to upload it, i'll do the damn 64px trash-icon you wanted so badly
<ochosi> jjfrv8: the tags now work as expected in the staging-site for parole-docs, bluesabre installed the required plugins
<brainwash> ochosi: http://lpaste.net/94103
<brainwash>   iface.Reboot(True)
<brainwash> Reboot requires a paramter (type boolean)
<ochosi> is that tested now?
<brainwash> yes
<ochosi> or are you sending me on another suicide-mission :p
<brainwash> it worked in my little test app :)
<brainwash> but it makes sense
<ochosi> but you didn't try in update-man?
<ochosi> :>
<brainwash> it will work
<brainwash> it's just a simple dbus call
<ochosi> what do you promise in return in case it doesn't? >:D
<brainwash> an unicorn?
<ochosi> what, just a unicorn?
<brainwash> this patch is no rocket science
<ochosi> yeah, it's just that the error i got doesn't really suggest this fix
<brainwash> if it does not work now, I won't continue writing/patching python code
<brainwash> which error?
<knome> what about promising to test your own patches first in the future? :)
<ochosi> the one i mentioned 26mins ago
<ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/istantanea-10102013-123046am.php
<brainwash> did you start update-manager inside a terminal window?
<ochosi> so where's that unicorn!
<ochosi> no, apport reported back
<ochosi> i repeat:
<ochosi> update-manager crashed with Typeerror in call_blocking(): More items found in D-Bus signature than in Python arguments
<ochosi> and now: where's the bloody unicorn?!
<brainwash> yes
<ochosi> :)
<brainwash> because I did not pass the parameter True
<ochosi> well, seems that doesn't work though
<ochosi> brainwash: or does it work for you in update-man?
<brainwash> how do I force a reboot?
<ochosi> i thought you said yourself to remove the kernel?
<ochosi> at least i don't know of any other method
<ochosi> or some other package that triggers a reboot, not sure what those are
<brainwash> it's a bit tricky
<Unit193> brainwash: It seems like it worked, just have to remote back into the RDP session. :P
<brainwash> ah ok, purge and reinstalled the current kernel
<brainwash> and restart worked after launching update-manager
<ochosi> hmm
<ochosi> strange
<ochosi> then i have to check whether there are some errors i made
<brainwash> http://lpaste.net/94103
<brainwash> Unit193: the updated patch did the tick, right?
<brainwash> trick
<ochosi> weird, the update-manager still doesn't show
<ochosi> just updated the patch (even though there was no diff)
<ochosi> maybe i need to restart my session or some service
<brainwash> reinstall it perhaps
<ochosi> well that also makes your patch go away
<brainwash> you can reapply it
<ochosi> sure, but that shouldn't make any difference
<brainwash> next time I double check the crap which I upload
<brainwash> so update-manager without the patch works fine?
<ochosi> ok, restart fixed update-manager
<Unit193> OK, nah, the old one doesn't work for sure.
<brainwash> yes, next time I'll test it myself
 * Unit193 doesn't like the new `patch` :/
<ochosi> Unit193: why, what's up with that?
<Unit193> It thinks you're too stupid to use full paths, thus it calls them dangerous and skips it.
<brainwash> so the patch format is not ideal?
<Unit193> brainwash: No, it's great.
<Unit193> Anyway, new one tested working?
<brainwash> works for me
<brainwash> I'll fire up a vm too, just to make sure
<Unit193> Alright, well what I tried didn't work.
<brainwash> Unit193: what exactly? "didn't work" is not very helpful
<brainwash> I assume you always launch update-manager from inside a terminal window, right?
<Unit193> Heh, indeed it doesn't.  It's fairly simple, patched it using http://lpaste.net/94086 it pulled in the updates, and hitting restart did not do a thing.
<Unit193> I never launch update-manager, so I made sure all were killed before, and opened it from Settings Manager.
<brainwash> nonono
<brainwash> http://lpaste.net/94103
<brainwash> line 18 changed
<Unit193> Ah, I see.  At the time the other was latest. :P
<brainwash> there are only 2 versions
<brainwash> not working and working :)
<ochosi> how did you get it to show the restart thingy again?
<ochosi> i mean what pkgs did you remove exactly
<Unit193> Yeah, you updated it after I ran the test.  I can try again though.
<brainwash> I reinstalled the current kernel
<ochosi> but that removes the -generic pkg for me
<ochosi> if i remove that i mean
<brainwash> it will remove the kernel meta package
<brainwash> reinstall it
<ochosi> yeah but reinstalling does pull the latest kernel again
<brainwash> how about upstart?
<brainwash> or udev?
<brainwash> nah, udev possibly not
<Unit193> apt-cache policy linux-image-generic  that give more than one version?
<brainwash> it's a meta package
<brainwash> depends on the latest version
<Unit193> Sure, but install an older version and you can purge the latest kernel then the meta will want to upgrade, which needs a rebboot.
<Unit193> Well, it'd need a reboot at least.
<brainwash> right
<brainwash> but there has to be another package, which requires a system reboot
<Unit193> Sure, plenty.
<brainwash> sudo touch /var/run/reboot-required
<brainwash> a one liner
<ochosi> gah
<ochosi> you could've said that *before* i removed my kernel
<Unit193> :D
<Unit193> Didn't think it'd pick that up.
<brainwash> just read about it
<Unit193> And, /var/run is a symlink to /run
<ochosi> ok, so if it works, i'll be right back
<Unit193> You can actually check *what* needs a reboot with the .pkgs file.
<ochosi> if it doesn't, i'll just stick around
<Unit193> Works for meâ¢
<ochosi> same
<ochosi> here
<ochosi> same hereâ¢
<brainwash> enjoy your working restart button :)
<Unit193> Now I never have to use that annoying application again. :D
<brainwash> same
<Unit193> But thanks for the fix. :P
<ochosi> now please attach the patch to the bugreport and start thugging people
<brainwash> already done
<ochosi> cool, co-co-cool
<brainwash> bug 1232363
<ubottu> bug 1232363 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Update Manager Restart button fails on xubuntu" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1232363
<Unit193> Oh, and noticed I pulled in the new dbus that fixed my issue, can install on the real Saucy compy. :D
<brainwash> ..and this is how I started to learn and like Python :D
<jjfrv8> ochosi, bluesabre, that was quick! Thanks. I'll try it out tonight.
<ochosi> jjfrv8: no problem ;) they don't (not) call us the dynamic duo for no reason!
<jjfrv8> hehe
#xubuntu-devel 2013-10-10
<Unit193> Anyone else notice that x11vnc no longer works with  -auth guess  ?
<Noskcaj_> Did anyone look at bug 1189491 ?
<ubottu> bug 1189491 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu 13.10 missing gtk2-engines package" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1189491
<micahg> ali1234: thanks!  I'm on my way
<ochosi> Noskcaj: just commented on that bug
<micahg> ochosi: andresz branch builds with the new libxfceui?  It's asking for SONAME 1
<ochosi> micahg: yeah, you need to --enable-gtk3 though with the andrzejr/wrapper3 branch
<micahg> oh, haha, using the wrong flag
<ochosi> :>
<ochosi> so let's hope it builds now
<ochosi> you've seen the build-instructions we've put together on the wiki?
<ochosi> micahg: in case not, here they are: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Saucy/Gtk3Indicators
<Unit193> You can run autogen.sh and recreate the orig.tar.gz? 0_o
<micahg> ah, you pas it to autogen
<ochosi> yes
<micahg> ugh, 100th times the charm?
<micahg> nope
<ochosi> what exactly is failing?
<micahg> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6216237/
<ochosi> so after skipping the noise, checking for libxfce4ui-1 >= 4.9.0... not found ?
<micahg> that's the old version
<ochosi> micahg: what about libxfce4ui-1-dev?
<ochosi> hm
<micahg> it needs both?
<ochosi> well the panel is both gtk2 and gtk3
<micahg> I can add both
<ochosi> i'd assume though that only the new one is needed, but i'm not sure how your whole setup is
<micahg> clean chroot with my PPA enabled
<ochosi> i think that the panel needs the libxfce4ui-1-dev, at least it should even build without -2 if i'm not mistaken
<ochosi> micahg: still no worky?
<micahg> nope
<Unit193> Stil wonky.
<ochosi> :s
<ochosi> well, gotta hit the sack
<micahg> on the 10th try, I should probably just work on it in a chroot so I don't have to start the build from scratch each time
<ochosi> mm
<ochosi> good luck with it
<ochosi> if you wanna do some easy stuff in between to relax, you could do the gmusicbrowser-upload/s ;) (bluesabre prepared the debdiff and all)
<micahg> I'll try to do that tonight, have to run out right now
<Noskcaj> micahg, Wouldn't it be easier to work on it just on your system then use a chroot to check dependencies?
<Noskcaj> Or are you not on saucy
<micahg> not on saucy :)
<Pwnna> maybe the devs iwll know
<Pwnna> so i have an issue where everytime i press F12, when it is mapped to a keyboard shortcut, it goes and changes some xfconf
<Pwnna> specifically, the output-name of /panels/panel-0 and /panels/panel-1
<Pwnna> i usually run my laptop with intel graphics card mode
<Pwnna> today i turned on nvida mode for a short while to test something
<Pwnna> under nvidia, my laptop screen is LVDS-0 while under intel, the screen is LVDS1
<Pwnna> i'm back on intel now, but everytime i press F12, which is mapped to my terminal emulator, it changes the output-name of my panels to LVDS-0
<Pwnna> wat. this is really annoying as F12 is my terminal key.
<Pwnna> i'm like.. grepping through my entire file system for LVDS
<Pwnna> and output-name
<Pwnna> .any ideas?
<Pwnna> .xsession-errors.old:185:warning: output LVDS-0 not found; ignoring
<micahg> \o/
<Pwnna> but i know that
<Pwnna> i know it's trying to change.
<Pwnna> wait wat
<Pwnna> i got it
<Pwnna> it recognized F12 as <Super>F12
<Pwnna> it depends on the order
<Pwnna> now i redefined <Super>F12, F12 is always detected instead
<Unit193> Pwnna: Support in #xubuntu, saucy support in #ubuntu+1
<micahg> ok, I finally got it to build, now I need to get the packaging fixed, but not tonight :(
<Unit193> Cool, congrats!
<Noskcaj> micahg, If there's anything i can do to help, let me know
<Unit193> micahg: 10/10/13 which is today (tomorrow?) is the final freeze, just a (hopefully) friendly reminder! :)
<Noskcaj> I really hope we don't get this close to the deadline neext cycle
<elfy> given the amount of people we have it's more than likely
<slickymaster> morning all
<knome> hey slickymaster 
<slickymaster> hi, knome. Good morning, How are you?
<knome> fine!
<slickymaster> glad to ear it :)
<knome> slickymaster, ready for testing then? :)
<slickymaster> knome: yeaps. Waiting for the RC image :) 
<slickymaster> knome: in the meanwhile still working on the Xubuntu docs translation, step by step
<knome> slickymaster, mhm 
<slickymaster> knome: 'mhm' means...?
<knome> slickymaster, "ack" ;)
<knome> slickymaster, or yup, or okay
<slickymaster> knome: :) not I got it
<brainwash> ouch, somebody accidentally changed the status of the indicator-sound report to "fix released"
<slickymaster> now
<Unit193> "I have nothing to say, but would like to confirm I have read it."
<brainwash> knome: bug 1208204
<ubottu> bug 1208204 in The Sound Menu "indicator-sound no longer functions with xfce4-indicator-plugin" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1208204
<brainwash> last comment
<knome> done
<brainwash> thanks :)
<knome> np
<brainwash> regarding bug 1229478 - xfpm relies on upower to do suspend/hibernate, but currently upower lies about the availability of logind, thus xfpm falls back to pm-utils.. which is missing
<ubottu> bug 1229478 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "No options for suspend/hibernate in xfce4-power-manager" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1229478
<brainwash> ahh, it's a ubuntu/debian specific patch
<brainwash> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/saucy/upower/saucy/view/head:/debian/patches/always_use_pm-utils_backend.patch
<brainwash> does a template for the 13.10 release page already exist?
<brainwash> with the "known issues" section
<brainwash> ochosi: can you still confirm, that "xubuntu" won't react to kb shortcuts for the first 10 sec after login?
<ochosi> brainwash: yes
<brainwash> do the actions get queued and executed afterwards?
<brainwash> I think this is happen on my system
<brainwash> happing
<brainwash> :/
<brainwash> I'll check the log files and enable debug mode if needed
<knome> brainwash, no release page, but feel free to list at http://pad.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu1310FinalRelease
<ali1234> when the gtk3 indicator 3 ppa is ready, are we gonna basically put it on that bug and say "well, try this"?
<ali1234> because i can't see gtk2 sound indicator getting fixed
<knome> ali1234, maybe, and get more testing inside the community. not sure if we're getting the gtk3 indicators for the 13.10 release though.
<ali1234> indicator3 has been flawless for me so far
<ali1234> well, it works exactly as well as it does in unity anyway
<knome> yes, but if uploaders have no time, it's not going to get it
<Unit193> Final freeze today, so either really sneaky, or packports.
<knome> *in
<knome> backports too;)
<ali1234> yeah i don't expect it to be in 13.10 by default
<ali1234> but if gtk2 isn't fixed, people will rage
<brainwash> ..and switch to unity :P
<knome> ali1234, it's a non-LTS version. i'm starting to be worried if we still have the bug in 14.04
<ali1234> yeah. just wondering what we tell people who complain
<knome> "it's a non-LTS version"
<brainwash> it's non-lts, but the raring users are forced to upgrade soon
<knome> sure...but they chose the non-LTS route
<Unit193> "Non-LTS" doesn't, or shouldn't mean half-baked.
<knome> sure, but there are always bugs and some are more unfortunate than others
<knome> we're still looking to get the gtk3 indicator support to backports at least
<knome> we can only do what we can do
<Unit193> Mhmm.  You just keep on using "Non-LTS" as if it means something. :P
<brainwash> the best ofc
<knome> Unit193, it does mean something.
<knome> Unit193, i don't *want* those to be half-baked, but i'm much less worried about stuff that slips into non-LTS than LTS
<brainwash> micahg: any news on bug 1232027 ?
<ubottu> bug 1232027 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "pm-utils not installed by default in 13.10" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1232027
<knome> brainwash, i'll get that uploaded.
<knome> /seeded
<brainwash> thanks
<brainwash> knome: do you know why this branch hasn't been reviewed yet? https://code.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/xubuntu-default-settings/b2_fixes/+merge/187127
<knome> i've just community-approved it.
<ali1234> so we don't tell them that gtk3 indicators are available for testing?
<ali1234> we just say "it's broken, sorry"
<knome> we can't tell them they are available until they are available
<ali1234> and when they are?
<knome> when somebody has time to set them up
<ali1234> micahg is working on it the past two days... looks like it is nearly done
<knome> yes. if he gets it done before the freeze, we might get it in.
<knome> and the bugfix
<knome> *then
<brainwash> knome: will seeding the package actually install it (live installer)?
<ali1234> ok but that isn't my question
<knome> brainwash, yes, seeding means exactly that
<brainwash> knome: ok :)
<knome> ali1234, the answer to your question is: we will let people know what they should do to get gtk3 indicators when we know how they can and have it set up.
<knome> ali1234, and we will make them available in the release if at all possible, and if not, then backports if possible
<knome> brainwash, 
<knome> 14:58 notice < queuebot:#ubuntu-release: Unapproved: xubuntu-meta  (saucy-proposed/universe) [2.170 => 2.171] (xubuntu)
<ochosi> brainwash: yes, here the actions get queued and executed 10 secs after login
<elfy> knome: is RC not a milestone release - or is it just that they've not gone out yet?
<knome> elfy, i'd say just not out yet
<elfy> k - thanks
<elfy> knome: just a fyi - I've started looking at the desktop and post install testcases now - talk to you soonish about those
<knome> yup, cheers
<brainwash> elfy: hey, can you confirm that keyboard shortcut "actions get queued and executed 10 secs after login"? for example launching the terminal via kb shortcut immediately (well, lets say 2-3sec) after logging in
<gdos> 2 part question: how do i submit a feature request and search for a possible bug (such as in the custom application launcher panel)?
<elfy> brainwash: not now I can't - got a short while at home for a cuppa then back to work
<brainwash> elfy: ok
<elfy> is there a bug for it?
<ochosi> gdos: if it's an xfce component, go to bugs.xfce.org
<ochosi> and what "custom application launcher panel" are you referring to?
<gdos> the application launcher (the one that you can customize); if i add 2 or more apps to it, the 1st app shown won't launch more than once.
<gdos> would that be caleld the xfce4-quicklauncher-plugin?
<ochosi> possible, i don't use that
<ochosi> what does your panel config call it?
<gdos> applauncher
<gdos> actually under xubuntu its called launcher under suse its called applauncher
<ochosi> right, so that's part of the xfce4-panel's core plugins
<gdos> yep. just tested it.
<ochosi> what feature would you request exactly?
<ochosi> but yeah, feelo free to search bugzilla first
<ochosi> bbiab
<ali1234> gdos: i can't reproduce launcher bug
<gdos> ali1234: under applauncher properties > advanced tick the box that says show last item. (i originally had that ticked and now have it un-ticked either way for me it doesn't work.)
<ali1234> gdos: what version are you on?
<gdos> xubuntu? 13.04
<gdos> xfce4-panel 4.10.0
<ali1234> i ticked the box. no change
<ali1234> i'm on 13.10/4.10.1
<gdos> hmm...
<ali1234> what specific apps are you using?
<ali1234> on the launcher i mean
<gdos> pterm and chromium
<ali1234> can you try with, say, xfce-terminal and abiword? (that's what i'm testing with)
<gdos> yes.
<gdos> i'll create a few more with different apps (some more than others); brb.
<ali1234> i wouldn't be surprised if this was fixed - loads of stuff has been
<gdos> ok.
<gdos> same thing.
<gdos> let me go check which version of xfce my suse machine is using...
<ali1234> ok i tried in a 13.04 VM and i still can't reproduce
<gdos> ok. i tried it on suse 12.3 (xfce 4.10.0) and i was able to reproduce it. when does xubuntu 13.10 come out? 23rd? 
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> actually, the 17th apparently
<gdos> ok. ali1234: i will wait and then upgrade and see if it replicates. in the mean time i'll try it on guest login and see if it may simply be a setting issue.
<ochosi> brainwash: https://github.com/shimmerproject/elementary-xfce/commit/c4bf794a980766799312f134b04f15810ce8a536
<brainwash> ochosi: thanks, this is a big step forward, finally I can enjoy a high res trash bin icon :)
<ochosi> brainwash: i know, right? :)
<brainwash> ochosi: and I'm wondering again, are there any other people out there affecting by the delayed execution of kb shortcuts after login..
<ochosi> well tbh i hope not
<ochosi> have you tried to create a new user in saucy and check whether that fixes the issue?
<brainwash> oh, not yet, only created a log of the session dbus communication so far (tons of lines)
<brainwash> I'll try that
<ochosi> well that would seem the most obvious and easy approach to me at least
<brainwash> 2nd user is affected too
<ochosi> hm, could still be an upgrade-only issue but it's less likely now i'd say
<brainwash> I'll investigate some more and report back
<ochosi> cool thanks
<ochosi> bbl
<knome> elfy, i've set up http://pad.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu1310FinalRelease
<knome> xubuntu.org says:
<knome> Xubuntu is a communityâdeveloped, Ubuntuâbased Linux operating system.
<knome> @Xubuntu says:
<meetingology> knome: Error: "Xubuntu" is not a valid command.
<knome> Xubuntu is a community developed, elegant and easy-to-use operating system based on Ubuntu.
<knome> inconsistency, if not else, dash in community(-)developed
<knome> and we could probably drop the commas
<holstein> xubuntu is an offical community designed operating system based on ubuntu and built to be elegant and easy to use
<knome> official is irrelevant
<holstein> but, what do i know ;)
<holstein> eh.. it comes up a lot
<knome> we're only an official flavor, but if we don't mention flavor, it's ambiguous what the "official" means
<holstein> otherwise, whats the difference in mint xfce?.. the official "blessing" of ubuntu (an other specifics"
<knome> i think the reason why twitter is what it is is a character limitation
<holstein> but, at a glance, both are "based on ubuntu"
<holstein> i just field that quesiton a lot.. even for seasoned linux users in my LUG..
<knome> sure, but what you say doesn't specify "what" official we are...
<holstein> right.. "official" by itself doesnt mean anything
<knome> and the way the sentence is set up, it sounds like we're an "official operating system"
<holstein> i mean, at some point, the user has to look something up and learn.. or just use it
<holstein> "officially based on ubuntu"?... 
<knome> i don't think we need to emphasize the "official flavorness" in the punchline
<knome> well heh, that's not accurate either
<knome> if you think about it, isn't mint xfce officially based on ubuntu as well?
<holstein> nah.. i dont think you do either.. but i see that often
<knome> eg. ubuntu can't deny mint is based on ubuntu
<knome> so it's kind of... officially based on ubuntu
<holstein> knome: right.. its not something that can be summed up in a sentence, really
<knome> yep.
<holstein> but, it would be nice..
<knome> but it's true we don't say that on our website frontpage.
<knome> we could
<knome> but probably not the punchline
<pleia2> sorry, airplane wifi is being.... airplane wifi-ish :)
<holstein> knome: and it could be that im answering the question mint users have about why they cant get support.. rather that "what is xubuntu"
<knome> :)
<pleia2> I think I might have pulled the twitter one from our strategy doc
<knome> i think it's a compromise
<knome> we wanted to tell as much as possible
<knome> the easy-to-use and elegant stuff is on the next sentence on the website
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> what about:
<knome> TITLE: Xubuntu is a community developed elegant and easy-to-use operating system.
<knome> NEXT SENTENCE: Xubuntu is a regocnised flavor of the Ubuntu operating system.
<pleia2> it's weird without the commas, hard to parse
<knome> ... developed, ...?
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> note that i dropped ubuntu from the title.
<pleia2> I think that's fine
<knome> should we drop "Linux" to the next paragraph as well?
<pleia2> we should mention linux somewhere on our front page
<knome> yeah, but does it have to be on the cat-sized title?
<knome> from a pure marketing point of view, it might not be a good selling point, even if we think it's cool.
<pleia2> yeah, it doesn't need to be in the header
<pleia2> hehe, cat-sized
<knome> that's a known finnish phrase
<knome> "kissan kokoiset kirjaimet" -> cat-sized letters
<pleia2> does it mean medium? :)
<pleia2> liken ot a mouse, and not a dog
<knome> no, it means BIG
<pleia2> elephants are big!
<pleia2> also pleia2, but not cats :)
<pleia2> I suppose tigers are big
<knome> Xubuntu is a Linux operating system and an officially recognised flavor of Ubuntu.
<knome> that?
<knome> is that a bit clumsy, or is it just me
<pleia2> clumbsy
<knome> hehe
<pleia2> Xubuntu is an officially recognised flavor of the Ubuntu operating system
<knome> that's what we have now, but since linux ain't on the title..
<GridCube> Xubuntu is an officially recognised flavor of the Ubuntu linux operating system
<knome> what about:
<pleia2> oh, heh
<knome> yeah, that.
<knome> but ubuntu doesn't use linux themself
<knome> and shouldn't that be Linux, not linux
<pleia2> GridCube: +1 Linux
<GridCube> uppercase L?
<knome> ok, see how it looks now
<pleia2> yeah
<GridCube> i see
<knome> i think that's much better
<GridCube> what about, Xubuntu is an officially recognised flavor of the Ubuntu's Linux operating system
<knome> no, 
<knome> there is no linux system that is "ubuntu's"
<pleia2> yeah, first way you had it was good
<GridCube> P: ok
<knome> if we want to tweak it, we could say
<knome> of the Linux-based Ubuntu operating system
<GridCube> thats clumbsy again
<knome> only a bit, and that would be in line with the fact that canonical doesn't say "Ubuntu Linux" any more
<knome> one more thing:
<knome> should we swap the two paragraphs?
<knome> first telling who xubuntu is perfect for, then telling what it is
<knome> and, easy-to-use vs. easy to use
<GridCube> what if instead of easy to use we use "accesible" or "user friendly"
<knome> we have easy-to-use in our strategy document, and tbh, i'd say changing the wording (at least to "accessible") changes the meaning
<GridCube> alright
<pleia2> I hate -s
<pleia2> easy to use is nice
<knome> hehe
<knome> what about the paragraph switch?
<knome> actually our SD says:
<knome> Xubuntu is a community-developed, Ubuntu-based operating system that combines elegance and ease of use.
<knome> which is nice wording
<knome> except ubuntu-based and the other dash
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> ok, that's updated
<knome> again: what about the paragraph swap?
<pleia2> I need to wait for better internet, taking too long to load pages
<knome> i can paste
<knome> Xubuntu is an officially recognised flavor of the Ubuntu Linux operating system. Xubuntu comes with Xfce, which is a stable, light and configurable desktop environment.
<knome> Xubuntu is perfect for those who want the most out of their desktops, laptops and netbooks with a modern look and enough features for efficient, daily usage. It works well on older hardware too.
<pleia2> that's what we want, or what we have?
<knome> what we have
<GridCube> i like it like that
<knome> i'm thinking whether we should swap
<pleia2> GridCube: +1
<knome> i'm thinking if liking it like that is because we appreciate more technical details than most of our users
<knome> but sure, let's keep it like that
<GridCube> no, i mean, if we say what it is then we can understand what its used for
<GridCube> if you know what something is used for, but not what it is...
<GridCube> in any case, its far too close for that distinction to matter too much
<knome> right, the social media thing was:
<knome> "If you're using our logo as your avatar or in your website, please use the latest version. If you need help with converting to a specific size, ask the xubuntu-devel mailing list."
<knome> + "Thanks!"
<knome> once we get the static. subdomain up, we could dump any images for those requests in a folder there
<knome> (for any sensible requests)
<GridCube> knome, talking about images
<knome> yes?
<GridCube> when would you think you can start the desktop showcasing?
<knome> i will have to look into that when i seriously have some time
<knome> i've been awfully busy lately
<GridCube> we have about 6 images that comply to the rules so its like 2 months if we put a new one every like 2 weeks
<GridCube> knome, sure
<GridCube> :)
<knome> bbl->
<elfy> brainwash: can't confirm that lag in kbd shortcut immediately after logging in
<elfy> in fact the one I tried worked immediately
<ochosi> hm, i guess that's good news...
<ochosi> cause i'd really prefer if that were our private bug
<elfy> :)
<knome> probably not though.
<knome> we should fix that for 14.04
<knome> i'd also say we've hit our deadline for the gtk3 indicators
<elfy> possibly - couldn't we call it a Non-release-critical-but-nice-to-have bugfixes :)
<elfy> do we have any working indicators? 
<knome> some might work...
<ochosi> no idea, i haven't used gtk2 indicators in ages
<knome> we should just get them in in backports or SRU
<elfy> ochosi: only one I had was the sound one till it went
<knome> (-updates)
<brainwash> and nm applet still works
<brainwash> why not replace the sound indicator with the mixer panel plugin? :)
<ochosi> cause that doesn't work so well with pulseadio
<ochosi> not so well = not at all
<brainwash> works for me, but it's a bad solution anyway
<ochosi> we could add a launcher for pavucontrol :p
<brainwash> the mixer plugin can be configured to open pavucontrol
<ochosi> hm, that would be okayish
<ochosi> i've never tried it
<ochosi> gotta go
<ochosi> hf
<brainwash> bye
<ali1234> mixer doesn't work at all for me
<brainwash> =S
<knome> ali1234, yes, it doesn't work with pulseaudio
<brainwash> volume changing?
<knome> xfce4-mixer, or the panel plugin
<brainwash> panel plugin
<brainwash> as fallback solution for the sound indicator
<knome> i mean, neither works with pulseaudio
<brainwash> knome: works for me, weird
<brainwash> <property name="sound-card" type="string" value="PlaybackBuiltinAudioAnalogStereoPulseAudioMixer"/>
<brainwash> or what exactly does not work?
<elfy> brainwash: ok - I'll confirm it takes a while for \ kbd shortcut to work when login follows a restart/start
<elfy> but then it takes a while for any apps starting to start too
<elfy> back tomorrow
<Noskcaj> Is there anyone with a xubuntu daily iso who can report a bug for me? My pc is too low on RAM to do it
<Noskcaj> Go to the manual partitioning options and notice that the checkbox has a grey square around it
<skellat> As seen over in #ubuntu-release moments ago: "(05:46:55 PM) Laney has changed the topic to: Released: 13.10 Beta 1, 13.04, and 12.04.3 | Archive: Frozen, final freeze | Saucy Salamander Release Coordination.  Please don't upload things during freezes where you shouldn't, or be prepared to apologise to the release team | we accept payment in cash, check or beer | melior malum quod cognoscis"
<Unit193> [17:46:55] Irssi: Topic: -: Archive: frozen
<Unit193> [17:46:55] Irssi: Topic: +: Archive: Frozen, final freeze
<Noskcaj_> What packages do we still need to convert to python 3 for 14.04?
<knome> brainwash, hey, you around?
<brainwash> knome: ye
<knome> brainwash, was there a bug for the lag for the shortcuts? can't seem to find it
<brainwash> knome: I didn't create one yet
<knome> oki, ping me when you do
<knome> also, bug 1232027
<ubottu> bug 1232027 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "pm-utils not installed by default in 13.10" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1232027
<brainwash> something is definitely wrong, the delayed kb shortcut actions are just a noticeable hint I think, one test account is not able to trigger any of the xfce kb shortcuts.. the session seems somewhat stuck
<knome> sure, that's possible
<brainwash> yap, pm-utils finally included, 1 bug less
<brainwash> :)
<brainwash> no clue, why my test system is acting so weird
<knome> you should be happy it's your test system, not your production machine
<brainwash> usually people would complain instantly about such an issue, but apparently almost nobody seems to be affected
<knome> except three people in this channel...
<knome> maybe people just think their computers are super slow
<knome> i mean, it is an annoying bug
<knome> ...otoh, you forget it when it starts working.
<brainwash> right, some randomness seems to be involved
<brainwash> knome: can you confirm this problem? or not tested yet?
<knome> i can confirm that bug on raring at least.
<brainwash> mmh, maybe an upstream report does already exist, addressing this kind of problem
<brainwash> I'll do some research
<knome> thanks
<knome> everybody: i just poked around a bit at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-t-flavor-xubuntu
<knome> look at the whiteboard and tell me if you think there's something else we should target
<brainwash> unused maximize button :D
<knome> that's in the bug list
<brainwash> maybe worth fixing this one
<brainwash> so only ubiquity is affected?
<knome> no, it's actually any 'dialog' window in xfce
<brainwash> ah ok, so I didn't notice the non functional maximize button yet
<knome> well it's only the 'dialog' type windows :)
<brainwash> needs to fixed upstream, so an upstream report is required I think
<brainwash> micahg, mr_pouit: can you review https://code.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/xubuntu-default-settings/b2_fixes please?
<knome> hey jjfrv8 :)
<jjfrv8> howdy, knome 
#xubuntu-devel 2013-10-11
<Noskcaj> knome: Should we add something about python3 to the blueprint?
<Noskcaj> And should we add something about whiskermenu?
<micahg> yeah
<Noskcaj> micahg: Is there anything i can do to help with the remaining uploads we need?
<micahg> I think I'm ok with xfce4-panel now, will start on it in a little bit
<Noskcaj> ok. 
<Noskcaj> one other thing, what's the process for joining the ~xubuntu-dev team? 
<micahg> just for bzr, familiarity with good branch practices and packaging
<Noskcaj> My parents have decided that xubuntu is a bad influence on me, so i won't be able to do anything other than small amounts of irc for the next 24 hours. sorry
<Unit193> Corsec pulled xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin in, for those of you that care.
<Noskcaj> Unit193: fyi, i said that two days ago and Most of the work was one of the linux mint devs
<Noskcaj> bluesabre: PING
<Unit193> But it wasn't in NEW, so not in repo or anywhere close to installable. :)
<Noskcaj> good point, it was just the svn that mati and i got it to.
<lderan> good morning people :)
<ochosi> Unit193: cool! that's good news, so we can basically sync that "for free"
<Unit193> It'll autosync for Trixy Tiger.
<ochosi> mm, yummy
<slickymaster> morning all
<bluesabre> anybody know what Noskcaj wanted from me?
<ochosi> not really, maybe it was about python3?
<bluesabre> or being on xubuntu-dev
 * bluesabre needs to finish his developer application today
<ochosi> mm
<bluesabre> hm
<bluesabre> patching light-locker for gdm, seems a bit redundant
<bluesabre> ;)
<ochosi> yeah, but that's for *bsd
<ochosi> and they don't have the latest gdm i think, which includes the locking
<bluesabre> ah, I see
<ochosi> but we'll see whether that's gonna happne
<ochosi> for now i love the screensaver-autolocking
<brainwash> I still hate the vt switching =S
<brainwash> ochosi: so I fixed the delayed kbsa (keyboard shortcut actions) on my test system by running a wrapper for xfsettingsd, it adds just a debug env var and redirects the error output
<ochosi> i agree that the VT switching isn't ideal, but maybe that'll get less flickery with X/Mir
<brainwash> maybe it's the minimal delay added by the wrapper
<ochosi> weird, so why would you say does the wrapper work exactly?
<brainwash> maybe it's just randomness, but both accounts work now
<brainwash> I also did clear any session cache
<brainwash> usually that did not help
<ochosi> hm
<ochosi> kinda odd still
<brainwash> and I noticed that xfsettingsd gets started by the session manager, but there's also an activated autostart entry for it
<brainwash> the autostart entry doesn't do much, because xfsettingsd is already running at this point
<ochosi> hm, weird
<ochosi> did removing it from there do any good?
<brainwash> no, but leaving it and removing the session entry might
<brainwash> if it really is some sort of race condition / process starting to earyl
<brainwash> early
<brainwash> I'll file a bug report today
<brainwash> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-settings/tree/xfsettingsd/xfsettingsd.desktop.in
<brainwash> probably just a fall back solution, if xfce session is failing or not used at all
<ochosi> mhm
<ochosi> good work!
<brainwash> and I noticed that users-admin triggers apport after you did create a new account and relog
<brainwash> but that's a general ubuntu issue
<brainwash> ochosi: still, I have no single log file which explains the strange xfsettingsd behavior 
<brainwash> a glib critical can occur, but even when everything works fine
<brainwash> if anyone wants to test the patch for bug 1232363 and none of the updated packages trigger a restart, simply run "sudo touch /run/reboot-required" and reopen update-manager
<ubottu> bug 1232363 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Update Manager Restart button fails on xubuntu" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1232363
<ochosi> brainwash: you could add that info to test the patch to the bugreport so others see it as well
<ochosi> have you already thugged a dev bout itÃ
<ochosi> ?
<brainwash> yes, I've asked the dev who uploaded the last fix to update-manager, but he wasn't in the mood to write a patch, only told me that he gladly sponsor the upload
<brainwash> the report is marked for the review team to test.. but who knows how long it will take
<brainwash> but with the amount of kernel updates there shouldn't be any need to request a reboot manually :)
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> indeed
<brainwash> xfce4-panel xcb io assertion fail on login
<brainwash> apport redirects me to some ancient bug report
<brainwash> I started to launch/test different applications (everything ubuntu related), and apport keeps bugging me
<elfy> I've got a update-manager restart hanging around - I can test the patch later - but you'll need to run me through applying it - don't do it often and consequently forget each time
<brainwash> elfy: cd /usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/UpdateManager && sudo patch < /path/to/patch
<elfy> that's just hanging around - I'll see if it's still hanging around in a few hours when I get back :)
<brainwash> you'll need to restart the update-manager
<ochosi> ali1234, andrzejr: an update for the sound-indicator just came in that enables a "volume" action that does the same as scrolling but without showing a notification...
<brainwash> notification popup?
<brainwash> or tooltip
<ochosi> notification
<ochosi> afaik the indicators don't have tooltips
<brainwash> xfce4-volumed is responsible for showing a notification when the volume changes
<ochosi> i know
<ochosi> but now there seems to be support for not showing a notification in the sound-indicator, so that could theoretically be used in the volumed
<ochosi> haven't looked at the implementation yet though
<ochosi> just thought i'd mention it since we had talked about it before
<brainwash> the never-ending gtk2 indicator story =S
<brainwash> or wait, are you talking about the gtk3 one?
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> gtk2 is dead-dead-dead in terms of indicators as far as i am concerned
<brainwash> wish I could help with the xfce gtk2 -> gtk3 transition and even wayland... but I have no clue about almost anything
<brainwash> it would basically mean forking the project and start coding, experimenting,..
<ochosi> not necessarily forking, cloning git and making your private branch is usually the first step
<brainwash> yea
<ochosi> then you can always push your stuff, as soon as you have working code, to e.g. github for others to try
<brainwash> but it would be my way of doing things
<brainwash> well, too much work anyway :P
<ochosi> well usually people do things their way
<brainwash> bug 1238635
<ubottu> bug 1238635 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Inconsistent logic of file navigation" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1238635
<brainwash> (just a random bug report)
<ochosi> well it's actually quite an important one i'd say
<ochosi> i've come across it several times, and it's true that it should be addressed
<ochosi> and it shouldn't be too hard i guess, if you wanna give it a try ;)
<brainwash> needs to be fixed upstream
<ochosi> yeah, i meant you could try to compile thunar and fix the bug
<ochosi> then attach a patch to bugzilla upstream
<brainwash> if I run out tasks :)
<brainwash> there's also the maximize button on dialog windows issue
<brainwash> cosmetic one
<ochosi> yeah, not sure about that bug tbh
<GridCube> the ones under "saucy final" are the release candidates
<GridCube> ?
<jjfrv8> Don't know. I assumed they were but they seemed to be linked to the ones marked "daily".
<jjfrv8> the 'final' ones don't have any previously reported bugs showing either, but the 'daily' ones do.
<GridCube> mmhm
<thad> ochosi: can you please test http://lpaste.net/94151
<brainwash> ochosi: getting closer to a solution :)
<brainwash> ochosi: so basically something fails when xfsettingsd daemonizes
<brainwash> elfy: I recall that you also did confirm the initial ~10sec delay, please test http://lpaste.net/94151
<brainwash> ochosi: looks like xfsettingsd and xfce4-appfinder share the same problem :)
<ochosi> brainwash: that's both good and bad i suppose
<brainwash> it explains, why we both are affected by the same issue
<brainwash> if you are affected by one of them, you are also affected by the second one
<ochosi> yup
<brainwash> the question is still, why isn't it a general issue everyone can confirm :/
<brainwash> my test system isn't an upgrade one, but a bloated one
<ochosi> mine is an upgraded one
<ochosi> so it's still possible that clean installs aren't affected (which would be good i suppose)
<brainwash> but it's mainly only xubuntu or?
<brainwash> which you've installed
<brainwash> I installed every single DE afterwards
<brainwash> do you plan do a fresh installation of xubuntu 13.10 (RC?) anytime soon?
<ochosi> i only have xubuntu here, but it's polluted with quite a bit of git-compiled stuff
<ochosi> so my system is just a little more reliable than an archbox in terms of bugreporting
<brainwash> ok, I don't expect a patch anytime soon unless more people start to confirm the delay
<skellat> Okay, it looks like we can add LP Bug #1232363 as a "Known Issue" that will be address after release according to the most recent comment from Brian Murray on it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1232363 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Update Manager Restart button fails on xubuntu" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1232363
<ochosi> indeed
<ochosi> well done brainwash ^
<brainwash> mmh, why not before final release =S
<ochosi> let's hope people won't do an upgrade in saucy before that ;)
<brainwash> after release means, that everyone not downloading updates during installation will encounter a non working restart button once
<ochosi> it's not such a big deal, only ppl who are currently testing saucy are really affected
<ochosi> yeah true, but it could be worse
<brainwash> and the people downloading the final iso?
<brainwash> ye :)
<ochosi> after all, it's getting fixed
<ochosi> you oughta look at the bright side
<brainwash> we have to reduce the amount of annoyances.. because the indicators already generate so much confusion :D
<ochosi> a few days in, the focus will shift to 14.04 anyway, and it's much more important to get that one right
<skellat> ochosi: As much as it is not good to say it...every release is indeed important but some releases are more special than others.
<skellat> And LP Bug #1238718 is odd to see popping up **now**
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1238718 in xubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "Errors in "Chapter 6. Connecting to Internet and Networks" of the Xubuntu Documentation saucy series" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1238718
<jjfrv8> I did notice the inconsistency, but it was that way in the Raring docs so I let it go.
<slickymaster> skellat, jjfrv8, I did file that bug after discussing it with knome 
<skellat> slickymaster: That's likely going to be stuff for a Stable Release Update and not something we're going to get into the shipping image
<slickymaster> skellat: yeah, I'm aware of that, but the way I see it at least it will be corrected for the LTS release
<skellat> slickymaster: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2013-October/001064.html
<slickymaster> skellat: :) I've received that one, and knew about it
<jjfrv8> We're probably going to be doing a major rewrite for T, eh, skellat?
<slickymaster> skellat: I've already made all the corrections, are you implying not to push it?
<skellat> slickymaster: Go ahead.  We'll have to prep it to be an SRU
<slickymaster> skellat: okie dokie, thanks
 * slickymaster hopes to have all the xubuntu-docs translated before the LTS release :P
<skellat> jjfrv8: I'm still wondering what'll come up at the Ubuntu Documentation Project meeting.  Theoretically we should attend since Xubuntu Documentation is considered part.
<jjfrv8> Right. I plan on attending.
<skellat> jjfrv8: Do you want to set a time & date after the Ubuntu Documentation Project meeting to hold a Xubuntu Documentation meeting?
<jjfrv8> Sounds like a good idea.
<skellat> We'll have time before UDS to do so
<jjfrv8> K
<jjfrv8> We'll talk more after the Ubuntu meeting?  Gotta go for now.
<skellat> jjfrv8: Bye
 * skellat goes to lunch
<elfy> brainwash: not getting that patch to work. and as far as "you also did confirm the initial ~10sec delay" I might have - but I'm not seeing it now
<elfy> and it's pointless showing me code - it means absolutely nothing to me at all 
<brainwash> elfy: you can edit the Dialogs.py and add the lines manually
<brainwash> elfy: and an easy way to verify the 10sec delay is to run "xfsettingsd --replace" and hit some kb shortcuts like super-t
<elfy> no delay 
<elfy> as I said :)
<brainwash> ok, great :)
<elfy> and that has knackered xchat
<ali1234> brainwash: what's this 10 seconds delay? this is with upstart?
<ali1234> the new fixed version?
<brainwash> no, xfsettingsd and xfce4-appfinder respond with a slight delay (10/5) to dbus messages after daemonizing
<brainwash> hardly anyone can reproduce it
<brainwash> not calling the daemonize function resolves it
<ali1234> yeah i can't reproduce
<ali1234> i'm not fully up to date tho, i'll try again in a bit
<brainwash> the appfinder report is more than a year old
<brainwash> starting with xfce 4.10
<brainwash> nick already migrated the appfinder to gdbus communication upstream, which solved the issue for me
<ali1234> can you have a look what is happening with dbus-monitor and/or dfeet?
<ali1234> also maybe ~/.cache/upstart/dbus.log
<ali1234> also, try making a fresh user profile and see if it still happens
<brainwash> I'll try it again for xfsettingsd, the the daemonized appfinder process gets stuck at some point and therefore doesn't respond to dbus messages anymore
<brainwash> it gets stuck loading icon theme files...
<ali1234> is it possible you have some stale dbus sockets or something? like maybe because you ran dbus as root one time by accident
<brainwash> maybe it's random
<brainwash> in my home folder?
<ali1234> yeah, perhaps
<ali1234> or maybe /tmp
<ali1234> but proably ~
<brainwash> unlikely, /tmp gets cleaned on every reboot and I already tested with new user accounts, same result
<ali1234> that's really weird
<ochosi> yeah, i have the same issue
<ochosi> but it more or less suddenly showed up
<brainwash> can't reproduce it when booting the daily iso 
<ali1234> uptime?
<ochosi> although i can't say whether it showed up after upgrading to 13.10 or sometime running 13.10 upgrades
<ali1234> i've seen where buggy apps spam dbus to the point where it crawls and/or crashes
<brainwash> ochosi: run "xfsettingsd --replace" and hit some kb shortcuts
<ochosi> yeah
<brainwash> delayed?
<ali1234> and by buggy apps i mean gnome system monitor, lol
<ochosi> that makes things get stuck again
<brainwash> afterwards "xfsettingsd --replace --no-daemon"
<ochosi> yeah, it works as you suggested before
<brainwash> it's like... we need to ask nick for help :)
<brainwash> to explain this mystery
<ochosi> who knows, maybe ali1234 has some tricks up his sleeve :>
<ochosi> anyway, i have no idea how to debug this kinda dbus stuff
<ali1234> check all the log files i mentioned, plus ~/.xsession-errors for anything even slightly related to dbus
<ali1234> use dbus-monitor --session to watch dbus requests (very spammy though)
<brainwash> already did
<ali1234> use dfeet to see what is connected to the bus
<brainwash> yea, d-feet for the xfsettingsd issue, I'll test that
<ali1234> try to see at what point it joins the bus
<ochosi> bbiab
<ali1234> if all else fails get the source and fill it with printfs
<ali1234> until you find the exact point where it is hanging
<brainwash> yes, did exactly this for the appfinder
<brainwash> and it gets stuck loading icon theme files
<brainwash> doesn't make much sense
<ali1234> are you both using the same theme by any chance?
<ali1234> xfsettingsd is of course doing stuff with icon themes too...
<ali1234> maybe there is a corrupt icon that stalls it
<brainwash> but it works when not calling the daemonize function
<brainwash> I should wash my brain and forget about this issue :)
<ali1234> that could be just a side effect
<brainwash> it's the default xubuntu icon theme
<ali1234> "elementary Xfce"?
<ochosi> hey â it's not my fault!
 * ochosi hides
<ochosi> but good idea to check whether it happens with other icon-themes too
<brainwash> I'm pretty sure that I tried other themes too, but let me try again
<ali1234> hmm i just noticed that when i run xfsettingsd --replace it does not background, ie it does not run as a daemon
<brainwash> woooot
<ali1234> wooot?
<brainwash> it does not background?!
<ali1234> yeah, weird huh?
<ali1234> oh wait that's not true
<ali1234> it outputs to the terminal still, but it is backgrounded
<ochosi> other icon themes also don't work (just tested gnome)
<ali1234> that's weird
<brainwash> what did it output?
<ali1234> a load of debugging messages
<ali1234> TRACE[xfce-shortcuts-grabber.c:382] find_event_key(): Positive match for <Super>t
<ali1234> and so on
<brainwash> after pressing the key, right?
<ali1234> i am using ubuntu-mono-light icon theme btw
<ali1234> yes, after pressing the shortcut. there is loads more both before and after that
<ali1234> couldn't reproduce with elementary xfce though
<ali1234> maybe it is an icon for a program i don't have installed
<elfy> I got the same outputs
<ali1234> what about running it with strace -e file
<elfy> and it's sent xchat back to 1999 again 
<ali1234> strace -f -e file xfsettingsd --replace
<ali1234> hmm interesting - i just ran it and i got a very short freeze - but the whole display froze for about 2 seconds
<ali1234> you'll want the -r option on strace too to get timestamps
<brainwash> ali1234: thanks for the valuable information, it will help a lot to find the cause of this faulty behavior
<slickymaster> skellat, FYI -> https://code.launchpad.net/~slickymaster/xubuntu-docs/xubuntu-docs/+merge/190739
<knome> jjfrv8, from my point of view, we do not need a complete rewrite for T, we just need to make sure things are up-to-date
<pjotr> Hello, I have a question about the merging of the translations. I noticed that the Dutch slideshow translation isn't in the daily build yet, although it has been completed some weeks ago....
<pjotr> I mean the ubiquity slideshow
<pjotr> for Xubuntu 13.10 Saucy
<pjotr> knome: can you shed some light on this matter?
<brainwash> ochosi: do you still have overlay scrollbars activated? need you to confirm something
<brainwash> ochosi elfy ali1234: we have a winner, the overlay_scrollbar module is somehow causing the delay
<elfy> which will be why I don't see it then 
<brainwash> right, it explains a lot
<brainwash> but still... What the heck?!
<elfy> :)
<brainwash> already filed bug 1236271
<ubottu> bug 1236271 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "GTK3 applications do not react to scroll wheel input when overlay scrollbars are activated" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1236271
<Unit193> Never used it.
<brainwash> guess we should add it to the known issues list
<brainwash> xubuntu not fully compatible with overlay scrollbar
<elfy> ohhhh 
<elfy> those fat arrow thingys that they use in ubuntu
<brainwash> so it's time to get rid of this unity scrollbar invention
<brainwash> ochosi: try LIBOVERLAY_SCROLLBAR=0 xfsettingsd --replace
<brainwash> I assume you have them activated as well
<ochosi> brainwash: i do have them active, yes
<ochosi> and yes, deactivating them fixes the issue
 * ochosi goes to purge the overlay-scrollbars
<elfy> from the repositories ? 
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> if it were possible..
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> brainwash: another job well done, so the bug should be re-assigned to the silly overlay-scrollbars i guess
<brainwash> yea.. uhm.. screw those scrollbars
<brainwash> they glitch the theme, they prevent scrolling in gtk3 apps and they delay some xfce apps
<elfy> good job we don't use them then :)
<Unit193> Have xubuntu-desktop, or xfwm4 conflict with them. :----D
<brainwash> ^ :D
<ochosi> :}
<brainwash> we could export the env var when logging into xubuntu
<knome> pjotr, i will have to look at it.
<brainwash> would that be a valid option? well, people would ask, why the overlay scrollbars are missing in xubuntu
<brainwash> if they use unity side by side
<Unit193> Eh, doesn't make things unusable or crash them, right?  Just a delay.
<brainwash> the daemonized appfinder instance does get stuck
<brainwash> zombie mode
<brainwash> from now on appfinder starts delayed
<brainwash> the new instances
<brainwash> so, what about deactivating them?
<pjotr> knome: thanks!
<knome> brainwash, deactivating them would be an option.
<brainwash> just like canonical disabled hibernate
<knome> people can't expect us to work like unity, that's not our goal by any means anyway
<brainwash> right
<knome> and people should acknowledge that when told
<knome> i don't think it's really a bug, it's just a differently working feature
<elfy> that would certainly be my point of view
<knome> by that argument people could start filing bugs like "xubuntu doesn't have left-hand panel" and expect us to think they are valid bugs
<brainwash> it does cause faulty behavior
<knome> which is?
<brainwash> "they glitch the theme, they prevent scrolling in gtk3 apps and they delay some xfce apps"
<knome> the overlay scrollbars?
<brainwash> yes
<brainwash> in saucy
<knome> yeah, well then *having* them is the bug.
<knome> getting rid of them is not a bug.
<knome> even if that meant it was working a bit differently than in unity
<brainwash> it should be added to the known issues list at least :)
<knome> if there is an env var that can disable them, then we should look at using that
<knome> that sounds fair
<knome> feel free to link to http://pad.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu1310FinalRelease
<knome> i mean, add a link to the bug in ...
<knome> + people are still free to poke that document.
<brainwash> yea, let me file a meta report first
<knome> sure, thanks
<brainwash> a "fix" can be shipped after release, if needed
<elfy> knome: yep - I'll be on that pad in the next few days
<knome> elfy, cheers :)
<elfy> mostly bugs people might see during install/upgrade
<knome> well...
<knome> not necessarily
<knome> just bugs that are going to be annoying
<knome> including most visual bugs
<knome> or bugs that make things lag
<elfy> well ... 
<elfy> I'd call a bug you might find during install annoying :)
<knome> depends
<knome> if it only happens at installation time, and isn't critical, meh
<brainwash> does the pad save automatically or do you have to hit the save button all the time?
<elfy> knome: okey doke
<knome> brainwash, saves automatically
<brainwash> ok
<knome> elfy, but i don't mind if we list a dozen of bugs again, then pick the ones we think are worth mentioning
<knome> elfy, and whatever pick i made is always debatable
<elfy> I'd rather have them there and then we can remove - rather than each of us think oh that's not worth mentioning and finding it was 
<elfy> lol 
<knome> yep, that's good
<knome> for pjotr (who left already) and others; slideshow translations are getting uploaded by stgraber
<brainwash> add bug 1232363 too? it will get fixed after release
<ubottu> bug 1232363 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Update Manager Restart button fails on xubuntu" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1232363
<knome> will get fixed means what?
<knome> do we have a working patch ready?
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> brainwash did one
<elfy> brainwash: add it to the pad please 
<knome> brainwash, ochosi: would you like to beg at #ubuntu-release to get that fix sponsored/uploaded?
<ochosi> someone already promised to SRU it
<ochosi> (read the last comment)
<ochosi> don't think we can get much more at this point...
<knome> ok, that works for me.
<knome> but yes, we should list that
<brainwash> oh, the layout changed
<brainwash> elfy: it's your bug report, so add it :P
<elfy> ok - I'm off - cya when I cya 
<knome> ok, ubiquity slideshow translations are uploaded and waiting to get in the images.
<ochosi> brainwash: fwiw, i haven't seen the scrollbar problem again in firefox
<ochosi> so it's possible i'll really flip the switch for 14.04 on that one
<brainwash> ochosi: great news
<brainwash> I switched to numix though =S
<knome> ochosi, did you acknowledge we have https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-t-flavor-xubuntu with stuff on the whiteboard?
<ochosi> brainwash: it's still one of our themes, so i don't mind ;)
<ochosi> knome: i did, but haven't really had many new ideas yet
<ochosi> the things i'm interested in are mostly there already (light-locker, mugshot, menulibre)
<ochosi> also whiskermenu, gtk3-indicators and xubuntu-core metapackage
<ochosi> ok, just added one item
<knome> ugh
<knome> there was an editing conflict
<knome> shite :P
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> not for me i think :)
<knome> well there was
<knome> LP just doesn't notify about that
<ochosi> my line is shown in my ff though
<knome> yeah
<knome> but meanwhile, i had done other updates
<knome> and those are lost
<knome> :P
<knome> i'll poke that a bit
<knome> dirty hands off!
<ochosi> whoopsie :)
<knome> that's okay, they were mostly formatting stuff
<knome> we should separate the *discussion* from that to wiki or pad
<Unit193> Heh, I don't really care about Whiskermenu, or else I'd use that mintmenu or KDE kickoff crap. :D
<ochosi> Unit193: it's a nice alternative to appfinder if you bind it to a kb-shortcut
<ochosi> i used it for a while to launch apps
<ochosi> but yeah, it's not as clever as appfinder (no custom command system etc)
<brainwash> ochosi: we don't have a gtk3 indicator (meta) bug report yet, or?
<ochosi> possible that we don't
<brainwash> only the soundindicator one
<ochosi> yup
<brainwash> yet another report I need to file :)
<Unit193> knome: You can assign the core meta more or less to me since I'm already creating it. :P
<Unit193> Or better yet, assign to someone else and I slip the information to them. :D
<knome> Unit193, lol, assigning you.
<knome> Unit193, do you think you can slip that kind of stuff without having to face the consequences? ;)
<Unit193> I liked the second option better. :(
<knome> nah. just ask for help if you need it.
<skellat> Do I dare ask how we're doing with the sound/volume issue at this point?  Will we be shipping with working "conventional" sound controls or is that gonna be a Known Issue?
<Noskcaj> bluesabre: It was about python3. Should we really be adding extra programs to the seed that aren't yet python3? I can help with converting them if you want
<Noskcaj> And if you're trying to get added to xubuntu-dev i'd like to see what you had to do so i can get added in a few months
<knome> instead of poking the LP blueprint, please poke: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Goals/T
<knome> i'm going to more or less  have the edit lock in the next 15mins.
<Noskcaj> knome: Do you think we are still going to try and get python3 only for 14.04?
<knome> if it's not too much work, and if the things are convertable
<Noskcaj> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1238997 just appeared
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1238997 in xfce4-panel (Ubuntu) "Add support for GTK3 panel indicators" [Undecided,New]
<Noskcaj> Isn't that slightly reduntant
<brainwash> Surprise!
<brainwash> does another report already exist?
<knome> i don't think there is a bug filed about that.
<knome> the previous B/FFe was handled in -release ML
<knome> ok, i'm done with the wikipage for now
<knome> wait
<knome> i'm not
<knome> 1min
<knome> done.
<ochosi> brainwash: there is a tiny bug in xfwm4-settings currently â the checkbox for vsync doesn't seem to be hooked up to xfconf correctly (if you're looking for low-hanging fruit to dive into code a little)
<brainwash> ochosi: how can this even happen? :P
<ochosi> no clue
<ochosi> but that seems to be the case in 4.11 (haven't checked whether it's fixed in git-master already)
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: I've been developing my applications to work with python 2 or 3, so we can flip the switch for catfish and mugshot at any time
<bluesabre> I think one of the big things is still gimp
<Unit193> bluesabre: Nice, good forward thinking.  2to3?
<bluesabre> nope, careful programming and if statements for python version
<Noskcaj> bluesabre: It might be worth making them all python 3 by default at the next upload. gimp is python?
<bluesabre> several of gimp's plugins are
<Noskcaj> oh yeah, i think most of them are done though. I was looking at the gnome bug tracker and i think the last few just got fixed
<knome> maybe it's worth seeing if the gimp core can run with 3, and see what's missing, and if that's reasonable
<bluesabre> oh sweet
<Unit193> knome: Run 2to3! :D
<Unit193> Still gtk2 of course.
<Noskcaj> Speeking of gtk2 and python3, is there anyone who has time to help with porting testdrive to gtk3 and python3? I lack the skills and no one else has the time
<knome> off for today, see you all later (and nighty!)
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: I've got the skills, and perhaps some time
<bluesabre> all of my apps are a lot more stable than when I started :)
<Noskcaj> bluesabre: yay. If you want to help, the code, along with dan and my attempts, are at code.launchpad.net/testdrive
<bluesabre> k
<bluesabre> wha
<bluesabre> how do some of those files have a revision with a decimal point?
<Noskcaj> bluesabre: I think it's from merges
#xubuntu-devel 2013-10-12
<brainwash> bug 1239018
<ubottu> bug 1239018 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Disable overlay scrollbars by default in Xubuntu 13.10" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1239018
<ali1234> brainwash: overlay scrollbar caused it? that's crazy
<brainwash> ali1234: well, loading/sourcing the module
<ali1234> i never would have guess that
<Unit193> Think it'd be more fitting for xubuntu-default-settings, no?  xsession.d making more sense as you wouldn't have to edit the xfce4-session package.
<ali1234> $LIBOVERLAY_SCROLLBAR is unset here. i thought they already were disabled by default in xubuntu...
<brainwash> the bug is filed against xubuntu-meta
<brainwash> ali1234: feel free to install them and mess with the debug tools
<ali1234> oh i see, you have unity installed too?
<ali1234> or gnome, or something that uses them?
<brainwash> yes, I installed them manually on my main system and automatically on my test system (which is bloated with every single DE)
<brainwash> this change mainly targets people who intend to install the xubuntu desktop side by side with unity
<Unit193> Hrm, seems nm-applet's fallback to GtkStatusIcon fails.
<l01> Hi, update-apt-xapian-index randomly freezes my old Xubuntu 13.10. Many people reported that disabling it did not cause issues, so would the Xubuntu devs consider disabling it by default?
<l01> sorry, I meant "my old PC with Xub 13.10"
<Unit193> It's useful for apt searches and such, you wouldn't notice the slowdown in searches at first, but later on you might.  It's safe to remove last I checked, but in theory you can also edit the cronjob and add --update so it just updates the index with any new information rather than rebuilding it.
<Unit193> It gets pulled in becaues of the software center.
<brainwash> ochosi: ok, so the xfwm4-vsync-xfconf issue is on my todo list, but I can't find any information about it that verifies it's broken
<brainwash> ochosi: the commit contains the usual copy/pasting, can't spot any mistakes
<kurts> hi, in xubuntu 13.10beta2 live cd, should permissions of automounted media in /media/xubuntu/* be 0700? seems a little restrictive to me, and im not sure if it is a bug
<alpacaherder> Any views on LP Bug #1220165 perhaps?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1220165 in linux-ppc (Ubuntu) "Error informing the kernel about modificatons" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1220165
<elfy> seen it once or twice
<elfy> did 7 tests today didn't see it at all
<elfy> and when I say I've seen it once or twice - I mean I've seen it once or twice since 2007
<alpacaherder> elfy: Wonderful.  I saw a phillw e-mail cross into my inbox which is why I'm bringing it up.  I'm not at home to test anything but I've got my x86 box downgraded back to Precise since sound was still not working for me in Saucy.
 * alpacaherder is away from the bouncer logged in normally as skellat as he's out doing fieldwork
<elfy> I looked to see who you were ;)
<pjotr> knome: the translation of the slideshow for Ubiquity in Xubuntu Saucy, is fixed in today's daily build. Thanks!
<pjotr> micahg: where can I translate gtk-theme-config? Not on Launchpad, as far as I can see. Maybe you as maintainer of this package, know where I can translate it?
<brainwash> pjotr: you could request support for more languages here https://github.com/satya164/gtk-theme-config
<pjotr> brainwash: OK, I'll send an e-mail to the main developer Satyajit Sahoo. Thanks!
<brainwash> ochosi: the vsync switch works and stays enabled after a relog
<ochosi> brainwash: you mean it works for you? did you monitor xfconf when checking the checkbox in the settings?
<ochosi> or did you patch it successfully?
<brainwash> ochosi: cloned the git repositories and compiled the stuff, then I launched the new xfwm4, changed the option and did not notice anything broken
<brainwash> vsync is set to "true" in the config xml file
<brainwash> or what exactly is not working? =S
<ochosi> brainwash: well at least in the 4.11 release that you can get via the xubuntu-dev 4.12ppa that switch is broekn
<ochosi> you have to manually flip it via xfconf
<brainwash> bad packaging :P
<brainwash> works upstream
<ochosi> alright, well good to know
<brainwash> ochosi: want to confirm any of the these bugs bug 1239018 ?
<ubottu> bug 1239018 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Disable overlay scrollbars by default in Xubuntu 13.10" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1239018
<brainwash> is this meta report even a valid request?
<ochosi> i'm not sure what we should do in this case
<brainwash> overlay scrollbars are not part of xubuntu, so why should we care?
<ochosi> it's not very easy to reactivate them for the user
<ochosi> the question is whether they can't be fixed to work better with xubuntu
<ochosi> but i'm not sure anyone wants to spend time on them...
<brainwash> the scrollbars aren't evil, but there is something wrong with the way the gtk module gets loaded/handled
<brainwash> and I guess nobody will spend even 1 minute to try to fix it
<brainwash> and take a look a this shiny report bug 1238997
<ubottu> bug 1238997 in xfce4-panel (Ubuntu) "Add support for GTK3 panel indicators" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1238997
<brainwash> (hopefully you don't mind when I subscribe you to important bug reports)
<ochosi> nope, go ahead
<ochosi> and good to have a bugreport to track that one
<brainwash> ochosi: got any other task? don't feel like improving thunar's key navigation
<Noskcaj> brainwash, bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu has a few, as does the xfce bugzilla ;)
<Noskcaj> and the debian BTS
<brainwash> yea.. just a few =S
<brainwash> I prefer something related to (x)ubuntu 13.10
<Noskcaj> brainwash, Then helping make the new squeeze or fixing some of the stuff at http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?which=maint&data=pkg-xfce-devel%40lists.alioth.debian.org&archive=no&raw=yes&bug-rev=yes&pend-exc=fixed&pend-exc=done would be the to-do list
<Noskcaj> although that's more 14.04 stuff
<brainwash> new squeeze, sounds interesting
<Noskcaj> ochosi, where can brainwash find the git for the new version of squeeze?
<brainwash> isn't it the xfce one?
<Noskcaj> brainwash, yeah. there's a version that doesn't need HAL in progress IIRC
<brainwash> hal o.o
<skellat> Noskcaj: Remember, squeeze will need to no longer depend on libthunar-vfs to succeed since that was what depended upon HAL.
<ochosi> brainwash, Noskcaj: the new squeeze is a complete rewrite, so i'm not sure it's actually a "small task" "to begin with"
<ochosi> but you can find it on git.xfce.org
<ochosi> and if you really want to work on it, it's best if you get in touch with cavalier on #xfce-dev, cause he wrote the new backend
<brainwash> ochosi: so no tasks left for 13.10 (post release)?
<brainwash> oh, this one here bug 1232804 ... it's even my report :D
<ubottu> bug 1232804 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "[compositing] improve login greeter -> desktop transition" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1232804
<brainwash> back to squeeze, are there plans to ship it by default with xubuntu 14.04?
<brainwash> like the leafpad -> mousepad switch
<skellat> brainwash: We have to wait and see what lands in the archive by then
<skellat> brainwash: If a new version lands before Feature Freeze, maybe.  If not, it gets more interesting as a question.
<brainwash> ok, the usual business
<skellat> For 14.04 we'll be synchronizing from Testing, not Unstable.  Currently there is a blocker bug keeping squeeze out of Testing Debian-side so until the version without libthunar-vfs lands...who knows.
<skellat> SEE: http://packages.qa.debian.org/s/squeeze.html
<ochosi> brainwash: there is no working release of the rewrite, it's as simple as that
<ochosi> the library-part of it is supposedly ready, but the UI hasn't been done
<brainwash> ah ok
<ochosi> so it's not in a state where we can discuss what could happen till 14.04
<ochosi> much of that depends on how much time we have to spend on it
<ochosi> and, if you really wanna investigate the "smooth session starting" i think that'd be an awesome thing
<ochosi> (not that i have any clue on how it's done though ;))
<ochosi> brainwash: does unity have a smooth transition?
<ochosi> or does lubuntu have one? or eOS?
<brainwash> I assume so, unity (compiz) gnome/elementary (libmutter)
<brainwash> lubuntu does not ship with a compositor, does it?
<ochosi> so you think the WM Ã¬s to blame for the transition?
<ochosi> anyway, gotta go to bed
<ochosi> ttys
<brainwash> yes, http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfwm4/tree/src/compositor.c#n868
<brainwash> cya :)
<ochosi> well what i meant was: at the moment things are popping up on the screen one after the other, so loading everything and then showing it at once would be cooler
<ochosi> but yeah, i see the point about the grey bg
<brainwash> or with some sort of animation
<ochosi> xfwm4 doesn't have any animations though
<brainwash> nothing fancy ofc
<ochosi> and i'm not sure it's useful, if lightdm-gtk-greeter shows the same bg as the session, the most important thing would be to just keep showing that
<brainwash> right
<ochosi> so loading xfdesktop first or something like that
<ochosi> or stopping xfwm4 to draw grey over it
<brainwash> xfwm4 should be able to copy the root background, but it did not work the one time I tried it
<brainwash> well, I'll try again and report back
<brainwash> tomorrow
<ochosi> righty, i won't be back until monday
<ochosi> so enjoy yo weekend and ttyl
<brainwash> ok cya :)
#xubuntu-devel 2013-10-13
<Noskcaj> Should we add arm64 to the xubuntu-meta package before saucy releases? Or should i make a fix ready for merging as soon as t-series branches appear?
<Unit193> Adding another arch at the last second, with zero testing the entire cycle, and I'd guess nobody to take a quick run over at the last second anyway.
<elfy> Personally I'd wait to see what the consensus is on the first question before working at all on the second
<elfy> and +1 Unit193 
<Noskcaj> makes sense. 
<brainwash> it's possible to hibernate system during live mode via menu, but not after the actual installation of (x)ubuntu
<brainwash> a bit confusing
<elfy> a bit pointless as well :)
<skellat> Noskcaj: The only thing in the wild with an arm64 chip is the iPhone 5S so, no, I don't think it would be especially worthwhile for us to put that on our release manifest at the moment for 13.10.
<elfy> skellat: he's not here ;)
<skellat> elfy: That's what I get for reading buffered backlog via ZNC several hours later
<elfy> :)
<skellat> Still, the point remains that the only arm64 chip in the wild touching consumer hands is in the iPhone 5S right this second so adding support in isn't worth it for 13.10
<elfy> I don't see much need to do it all tbh
<skellat> Conventional armhf got thrown under the bus as it was
<elfy> yep
<skellat> Now is supposed to be the chill-out period...test, look for hyper-critical issues that need last-minute fixes, test, and chill-out
<jjfrv8> Has anyone else seen this message on the users' list? https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-users/2013-October/006065.html
<jjfrv8> I get slightly different symptoms but I can confirm the problem on two different host machines.
<jjfrv8> And it seems to happen with Saucy and not Raring.
<brainwash> jjfrv8: maybe worth filing a lp report
<jjfrv8> brainwash, I was prepared to do that but I was afraid it would get shot down as a vbox issue. Doesn't seem like that to me, tho.
<brainwash> I'll try to reproduce this one later, but some sort of bug report would be still needed
<jjfrv8> Sure. I'd be glad to do it.
<slickymaster> afternoon all
<thad> slickymaster: the users-admin segfault, the xfce4-terminal encoding menu one, and many others are all caused by glib 2.37 and newer
<slickymaster> thad, do you mean, also https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-terminal/+bug/1206739 and  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-indicator-plugin/+bug/1181134
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1206739 in xfce4-terminal (Ubuntu) "xfce4-terminal crashed with SIGSEGV in magazine_chain_pop_head()" [Medium,Confirmed]
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1181134 in xfce4-indicator-plugin (Ubuntu) "xfce4-indicator-plugin crashed with SIGSEGV in g_type_check_instance_cast()" [High,Triaged]
<thad> yea, there's something wrong with the memory chunk allocator
<thad> the applications did not change, but glib got pushed to 2.38 in saucy
<slickymaster> thad, ^^^ you're right about that
<thad> maybe I can find a way to resolve this, well at least explain it somehow :)
<slickymaster> thad, that would be great
<ali1234> thad: so do you know a version that worked?
<ali1234> attempting to build 2.36...
<ali1234> the build got all the way to the end, ran the tests, and then crashed out
<ali1234> after successfully completing every test
<thad> ali1234: what a bummer :/
<ali1234> i am trying to debug it now but it is difficult
<ali1234> when gdb suspends it the menu is still open which makes it impossible to click on any other windows
<ali1234> or do anything at all, including kill gdb
<thad> what about valgrind?
<ali1234> i could run it in xnest
<thad> well, sadly I'm not a real expert
<ali1234> got it
<ali1234> it crashes in a different place now though
<thad> can you share any details?
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6233113/
<thad> yea
<ali1234> number 4 is a big wtf
<thad> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/151908575/Stacktrace.txt
<ali1234> oh, i see, that's the problem
<ali1234> it's calling a callback and the pointer is totally nonsense
<thad> so, what can we blame for this madness?
<ali1234> don't know :/
<ali1234> the trace continues: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6233140/
<thad> maybe test the first 2.37 release and then do a bisect?
<ali1234> i don't know where to get that from
<ali1234> terminal_encoding_action_menu_shown looks like where it is crashing
<thad> yes
<ali1234> so i will just add printfs until i find it
<thad> g_slist_prepend
<ali1234> it's probably already corrupted by that point
<thad> which point?
<thad> so we have the for loop to fill the menu with the different encoding entries (GSList groups)
<ali1234> have you tested this bug without gtk the patched libxfce4ui installed?
<ali1234> for gtk3 indicators
<thad> what do you mean?
<ali1234> well, xfce4-terminal has a dependency on libxfce4ui which we rebuild for gtk3 indicators
<thad> the daily iso is affected, even the fedora 20 alpha
<ali1234> ok, just checking
<ali1234> the crash happens inside that loop btw, but not on the first loop through
<thad> most likely everything what switched to glib 2.37+ I assume
<thad> yes, not on the first loop run
<ali1234> item = gtk_menu_item_new_with_label (_(terminal_encodings_names[n])); <- crashes here
<ali1234> when n == 2
<ali1234> which is "Baltic" in the build in string table
<ali1234> so, bad translation?
<ali1234> no, it still crashes if i remove the _()
<thad> sometimes it does crash on the 3rd run
<ali1234> always :/
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> in fact it crashes before that line ^
<ali1234> oh wait
<ali1234> now it is crashing without looping at all
<ali1234> so then, race condition
<ali1234> this makes no seeeeeense
<ali1234> i think i need to flush stdout or something
<thad> comment out this line:  groups = g_slist_prepend (groups, item);
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> it crashes before that though
<ali1234> this really makes no sense
<thad> yea, still no clue, what's going wrong
<ali1234> hmmmmmmmmm
<ali1234> so
<ali1234> what s happening here is it adds the radio item and says "the items are in groups"
<ali1234> at that point groups is empty
<ali1234> then it puts the items into groups
<ali1234> wait, no
<ali1234> even the code doesn't make sense here
<ali1234>   item = gtk_radio_menu_item_new_with_label (groups, default_label);
<ali1234>   groups = g_slist_prepend (groups, item);
<ali1234> groups = g_slist_prepend (groups, item); <- this line apears in a lot of places, but the very first one makes no sense and appears to create a recursive menu definition
<ali1234> but i need to check the api docs
<thad> right, reading the api should help
<ali1234> so when you said comment the line, which one?
<thad> the one in the outer loop
<ali1234> yeah, that's the only one that makes a difference. i still don't understand why though, or what groups is even supposed to be
<knome> thad == brainwash?
<brainwash> yes, that's me
<knome> oki
<ali1234> it still crashes eventually
<brainwash> different PCs
<ali1234> *** Error in `terminal/xfce4-terminal': double free or corruption (out): 0x00007fe5434d0340 ***
<ali1234> *** Error in `terminal/xfce4-terminal': corrupted double-linked list: 0x00007fe5434d0310 ***
<thad> randomly?
<ali1234> seems like it
<ali1234> oh i get it
<thad> didn't crash for me, well, I don't even know what removing this line actually does :)
<ali1234> groups is the group of radio buttons
<thad> yes
<ali1234> it's the set of mutually exclusive options that the radio group belongs to
<ali1234> so it makes no sense to add anything other than radio buttons to it
<ali1234> so commenting that line is in fact the correct fix
<thad> so there is a problem with the list, right?
<thad> mmh, still weird
<ali1234> because it is trying to turn off a item whch is not a radio item
<ali1234> presumably this used to work but now causes a crash
<thad> didn't cause any trouble in raring
<ali1234> well, one way to find out is to make a simple test
<ali1234> which i will now try to do
<ali1234> also try to see if i can get it to crash with just that line commented
<ali1234> bet i can't though
<thad> you should add all these findings to the upstream report
<ali1234> can't seem to crash it
<thad> nice
<thad> well, I can't either :)
<ali1234> ok, added the info to the bug
<thad> mmh, do we have to free some memory?
<thad> just curious
<ali1234> what do you mean?
<ali1234> i'm still a little bit dubious of this code
<ali1234> but i don't know gtk enough to say if it is right or wrong
<ali1234> i would have expected creating a radio item and specifying the group would automatically add the item to the group
<ali1234> thus it should not be necessary to manually append things
<thad> we create these items, don't we have to free the memory afterwards?
<ali1234> otoh the empty group is a null pointer, so i don't understand how it keeps that stuff sorted out
<ali1234> no, if we do that the menu will disappear
<thad> so it's garbage collection?
<thad> well, valgrind can tell :D
<ali1234> eh, not really
<ali1234> this function is building the menu
<ali1234> some other functions tears it down
<thad> yea, but if we comment out the line, the item won't get added and can't be free afterwards, because it's not in the list... or?
<thad> freed
<ali1234> it doesn't get freed through the group
<thad> ah ok
<ali1234> the group is only used when you click on a radio item - it turns off all the other radio items in the group
<ali1234> all the menu items are in the menu and submenus, they get freed through that
<ali1234> that's why it crashes, because it calls turn_off_radio_item() on something that isn't a radio item
<ali1234> at least that is my working assumption
<ali1234> anyway the groups isn't saved either
<ali1234> it's only stuffed into the radio items themselves
<ali1234> the only reference to any of this stuff, once the function finishes, is via the gtk window -> gtk menu bar -> ... pointers
<thad> I need to learn more about C and GTK, it's a bit confusing without the right amount of knowledge 
<ali1234> Gtk is incredibly confusing :(
<ali1234> castes everywhere
<ali1234> that's why stuff like this happens: you often can't tell what type of pointer you get - you have to just know and caste it appropriately
<thad> invalid one :D
<thad> ones
<ali1234> if you guessed wrong, it crashes
<ali1234> https://developer.gnome.org/gtk2/stable/GtkRadioMenuItem.html
<thad> are you going to debug the users-admin segfault too?
<ali1234> maybe
<ali1234> looking at the example code there ^ it does seem like the items are added automatically to the group. i think this code smells funny
<ali1234> link to users-admin bug?
<thad> wobug 1185396
<thad> bu 1185396
<thad> I give up
<thad> this keyboard is so weird, not used to it
<ali1234> hmm this groups code must be okay - when you make a new item and pass in the group, it must update the group pointer in all the items in the group to point to the new group
<ali1234> because there's no other way it could work
<ali1234> and that is almost certainly what crashes
<ali1234> because the non-radio item doesn't have a pointer to the group list, so when it tries to set it... bang
<ali1234> that's why it crashes during setup, not when you actually click something
<thad> so we wait until the fix gets approved upstream?
<thad> because it makes sense now
<thad> we could go ahead and include it before
<ali1234> hmm otoh it could be broken still :/
<ali1234> or rather, it might only work by accident
<ali1234> this all boils down to a simple thing: GSList is a simple linked list
<ali1234> empty list is NULL
<ali1234> if you add an item to the empty list you get [item, NULL]
<ali1234> if you do it again, you get [item, NULL] again, but it is a different list
<ali1234> there is no way to store a reference to a GSList that updates all the copies of it
<ali1234> BUT this is only true when prepending
<thad> why not append?
<ali1234> because you can't append to NULL
<thad> mmh, ok
<ali1234> so i think what happens here is that every radio item has a different copy of the same list
<ali1234> in fact it probably ends up looking like a tree
<ali1234> i should just read the source and find out i guess
<ali1234> but at the moment... i still think this code is fishy
<thad> still not sure, why g_slist_append() shouldn't work
<thad> maybe I'm way too confused at this point
<rowboatn1ck> what does "different copy of the same list" mean?
<ali1234> rowboatn1ck: linked list is a structure like { int: value; pointer: next; }
<rowboatn1ck> without looking too hard, it looks like every radiobutton gets a pointer to the current element
<ali1234> not quite
<ali1234> we store a reference to the linked list as just a point. so to start with it is NULL
<rowboatn1ck> yes
<ali1234> we prepend one item and we get pointer to: [{0xF00, NULL}]
<rowboatn1ck> yes
<ali1234> let a = this pointer
<rowboatn1ck> i dont think that happens
<rowboatn1ck> i think its initally NULL, it gets passed, gets assigned an address to newly allocated memory
<rowboatn1ck> the next iteration you pass that, it allocates a new again and assign 
<ali1234> now prepend to a and we get pointer to: [{0xF01, a} -> {0xF00, NULL}]
<ali1234> prepend to a again and you get [{0xF02, a} -> {0xF00, NULL}]
<rowboatn1ck> yes, but 0xF02's prev would be 0xF01
<ali1234> no, it wouldn't
<ali1234> a doesn't change
<ali1234> you get a new pointer back
<ali1234> but the old pointer still points to the same thing as before
<rowboatn1ck> in lack of a better term, the "old pointer"'s 'next' still points to NULL?
<ali1234> yes
<rowboatn1ck> that is very, very odd
<ali1234> it's how linked lists have worked since forever :)
<ali1234> i'm going to have to code to up to see what really happens
<rowboatn1ck> no, what would happen is, you pass NULL, it creates a node, set next to NULL
<ali1234> because basically however it works, this code is wrong imo
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> then returns the node
<rowboatn1ck> but if you do it again, the SAME node as *this*, should NOT be NULL
<ali1234> if you pass in NULL again you get a new node
<rowboatn1ck> I would imagine, in this example, it worked like this: pass NULL, get address to current node, next iteration, pass that address, get address to new node, and again and again
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> but that is not what xfce4-terminal does
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6233700/ <- is the prepend function
<ali1234> when you prepend some data, it makes a new node and makes it point to whatever list you passed in
<ali1234> so if you prepend the same data to the same list twice, you get two lists that share all but the first item
<ali1234> this is what xfce terminal is doing
<ali1234> when you make a new radio item it prepends itself to the list you pass in
<ali1234> then if the original list passed in was not null, it updates all the other radio items with the new list
<ali1234> xfce4-terminal then prepends the new item to the old list again, creating a new, different list
<ali1234> this is then passed in to the next item created, and so on
<ali1234> so each time you open that menu, it leaks a g_slist_node for each encoding type... which is bad
<rowboatn1ck> i see
<brainwash> so I wasn't wrong about the allocated memory not being freed?
<rowboatn1ck> it shouldnt have to be free'd to do this
<ali1234> brainwash: no, you were wrong. it doesn't have to be manually freed. the function is actually allocating things twice and only one of them will be freed, the other is lost (there is no longer any reference to it)
<brainwash> ah ok
<brainwash> still bad
<ali1234> luckily the solution is very simple: just do it the way the example shows
<ali1234> brainwash: i added a patch: http://bug-attachment.xfce.org/attachment.cgi?id=5186
<brainwash> ali1234: reading your comment currently, impressive job, it explains everything :)
<brainwash> patch looks ok, I'll test it later too
<micahg> is anyone interested in helping to maintain blueman?/
<brainwash> micahg: just curious, what work needs to be done?
#xubuntu-devel 2014-10-06
<ochosi> well, he asked whether we had changed the wallpaper name (which we haven't) or the gsettings schema
<bluesabre> nope, all the same
<bluesabre> still a symlink
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> so i told him that both of us had looked into it without result
<ochosi> hope he'll come up with something
<ochosi> but we'll better ping him about it on tuesday or something
<bluesabre> ok, sounds like a good idea
<ochosi> other than that, i think we're heading pretty much straight for the release, nothing much left for now, or did i miss anything?
<bluesabre> its smooth sailing from here
<ochosi> good good
<ochosi> then we can start planning the next cycle early
<bluesabre> yup
<ochosi> i feel a lot less exhausted than after 14.04
<ochosi> maybe start with a simple list and then translate that into blueprints/workitems or trello
<ochosi> that is actually one more issue we should discuss at some point
<ochosi> (trello and where to go with that)
<bluesabre> indeed
<bluesabre> I'm trying to get a headstart on the next menulibre, with a reset button for some of the dreadful bugs... and need to get my patches together for light-locker
<ochosi> right, l-l 1.6 would be a good goal for 15.04
<ochosi> and theoretically we can either integrate l-l-s with l-l or integrate l-l's settings with xfpm
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> some good goals so far
<ochosi> then possibly continue reviewing our default apps set
<bluesabre> if geary would add PGP support, I'd totally be pushing for that
<bluesabre> the current release is insanely stable and fast
<ochosi> actually even without that, we could look into it
<ochosi> then it might also make sense to look at alternatives for firefox
<ochosi> (midori again?)
<bluesabre> its pretty stable, just wondering when the gtk3+npapi build will be default
<ochosi> yeah, we could ask around
<ochosi> as long as it's not lts, we could give that a trial run
<bluesabre> gotta be careful not to become xfce-elementary though
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> haha
<ochosi> well, do we?
<ochosi> frankly, i don't mind. xubuntu resembled gnome2 pretty closely when i joined
<bluesabre> thats true
<ochosi> it's obvious that not every distro/desktop will have its unique set of apps
<ochosi> and that's actually also quite good
<ochosi> there is enough fragmentation as it is
<bluesabre> thats true
<ochosi> also, you can't easily customize elementary, while you can do that with xfce
<ochosi> (or pantheon, if that is actually the name of their DE, never sure..)
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> I'm getting repetitive :)
<ochosi> hehe
<bluesabre> say something I can disagree with
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> that's fine, as long as i can continue being right
<ochosi> we could look into fixing any outstanding greeter issues too btw
<bluesabre> yup
<ochosi> oh, how serious were you about re-forking gnome-screensaver?
<bluesabre> don't want to start the fork unless there is a serious need
<bluesabre> will there be a vt-switch free light-locker before the next lts?
<ochosi> righty, well it would be good to put a lid on the resume issues before the next lts
<ochosi> that is exactly the question
<ochosi> i haven't seen cavalier around a lot lately (or at all, to be truthful)
<ochosi> i know i won't have time to look into making ll emulate lightdm
<ochosi> and actually, what originally made gnome-screensaver nice was that it worked with any display manager
<ochosi> but yeah, the visual consistency is not as good as it gets like that
<bluesabre> yeah, there's good and bad to each solution
<ochosi> (although with gtk-greeter, we also use *one* gtk theme for all users)
<ochosi> i think we could probably patch using the current user's wallpaper into gnome-screensaver
<ochosi> with accountsservice
<bluesabre> yeah, for sure
<ochosi> and then make the layout resemble gtk-greeter
<ochosi> in its default xubuntu setup
<ochosi> and that would be enough for almost all users
<ochosi> (except those that fiddle with the login screen)
<ochosi> as long as we don't ship greeter-settings, i don't see a big problem with that
<ochosi> we could most likely patch out all gnome depends
<ochosi> and still keep stuff like fadeout
<ochosi> we might have to create a new/separate settings dialog
<ochosi> or integrate it with xfpm
<ochosi> and we'd have to give it a new name and add support to xflock
<bluesabre> honestly, we could probably add a locker to the greeter code
<bluesabre> lightdm-gtk-locker
<ochosi> right, but why would that not do a vt switch?
<ochosi> i mean after all lightdm causes the vt switch, not the greeter, right?
<bluesabre> we just wouldn't vt-switch... we'd only use the same code for drawing the lock screen
<ochosi> oh
<bluesabre> since the code is there to interpret the UI paremeters
<ochosi> righ
<ochosi> t
<ochosi> so integrate it in the same package/code
<ochosi> that would work
<bluesabre> yeah, thats an option
<ochosi> but frankly, as the greeter code becomes more flexible and complex now, we'd have to add support for the various config options andrew added
 * ochosi is not a huge fan
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> and lightdm-gtk-locker is a misleading name, since it doesnt have anything to do with lightdm anymore
<bluesabre> lockscreens are a pain
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> yup
<bluesabre> you should also rename light-locker to lightdm-locker
<bluesabre> the non-lightdm users are around :)
<ochosi> i guess we could sneak out of most problems by calling that new gnome-screensaver fork xubuntu-locker
<ochosi> so all users of other distros would get their bugs marked as invalid
<ochosi> true that
<ochosi> i guess in a weekend we could whip up that new fork...
<ochosi> not sure whether light-locker2.0 can be done so quickly
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> a weekend might be a bit of a stretch ;)
<pleia2> I have a meeting to schedule, but it's been 32432 degrees at home lately so I shun my computer
 * pleia2 will get to it eventually
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: not sure, we can start out from where i had removed the gnome depends of gnome-screensaver
<ochosi> the layout was already similar
<bluesabre> pleia2: jealous... a friend of mine got married yesterday on a windy, 45F day
<bluesabre> then its 65F today
<bluesabre> ochosi: yeah, I guess you guys have already done most of the work
<ochosi> pretty much this: https://github.com/the-cavalry/light-locker/commit/3d7cf431c6db2f23fe424ef2f52512654e38d2cf
<pleia2> 90F in my condo right now :\ san francisco octobers are the hottest time of year
<ochosi> wow
<bluesabre> dang
<ochosi> here it's already very autumy
<pleia2> I stayed in a hotel last night :D
<ochosi> (or autumny)
<ochosi> (although that feels more difficult to pronounce)
 * pleia2 back to non-computery things
<ochosi> hf pleia2 
<ochosi> bluesabre: theoretically one could port the GnomeRR stuff to xrandr or something...
<ochosi> lots of potential to spend time still
<ochosi> anyway, now it's time to head to bed
<skellat> bluesabre: Could LP Bug 1377717 wait until Victorious Velociraptor or do we want it in for Utopic Unicorn?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1377717 in xfce4-screenshooter (Ubuntu) "Sync xfce4-screenshooter 1.8.1-4 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1377717
<skellat> I just spotted it in my overwatch e-mail folder and can't seem to grasp its urgency
<bluesabre> skellat: it'd probably be fine for either really... but yeah, seems non-essential
<skellat> Sponsors are subscribed to it.  Do you want to leave remarks as XTL as to priority?
<bluesabre> it's pretty low priority... Nosckaj, I can sync that you know
<bluesabre> let me know its urgency, and I can sync as early as tomorrow
<ochosi> night everyone
<bluesabre> night ochosi
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, It's a very minor, low regression change. That was my reasoning for syncing it.
<Noskcaj> just mark as invalid if you think it can wait
<ochosi> morning everyone
<ochosi> pleia2: hey there, any idea yet for when you wanna schedule the next meeting?
<elfy> good afternoon
<ochosi> hey elfy 
<ochosi> bluesabre: btw, the most recent geary version looks a bit odd with greybird (well, actually mostly the bottom buttonbar in the compose dialog). guess if we're checkin it out for default i have some work to do
<elfy> anything happened to the black background bug at all?
<elfy> sigh ... so can anyone boot a 64bit vbox and confirm that it ends up at a black screen
<elfy> then go to tty1 and run sudo service lightdm status and get start/waiting
<elfy> and then go to tty7 and see the login dialogue ok now
<elfy> don't worry about confirming the lightdm status
<pleia2> so, thinking 20:00 on Tuesday the 14th for our next meeting
<pleia2> after that week I'm away from home for a month, so things get tricky
<elfy> wfm - RC that week
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> 20utc?
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> always utc
<ochosi> elfy: yeah i talked to xnox about it, he promised to look into it
<elfy> excellent - thanks ochosi 
<ochosi> i'll ping him about it again tomorrow
<bluesabre> hey all
<knome> hey bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey knome
<knome> bluesabre, again, i guess no news on the packageset updatE?
#xubuntu-devel 2014-10-07
<bluesabre> knome: correcto
<knome> can i help with it?
<bluesabre> haven't asked, saw somebody else ask and get rejected the other day
<knome> for the same thing?
<bluesabre> how important is it that we have push rights for the slideshow?
<knome> well it would be very convenient, and i don't see why we couldn't have those
<bluesabre> k
<bluesabre> I'll send an email to devel-permissions asking for it then
<knome> erm, so did somebody ask for upload rights for the same package?
<bluesabre> yeah, I'll have to dig around to see when it was
<knome> i can dig that up as well
<knome> hmm, right
<knome> that's a potential issue, but meh
<bluesabre> found it already?
<knome> yep, it was aron xu for ubuntukylin
<knome> i think it's fine as it is if we have a pre-planned schedule for uploads, and are assured they happen often enough
<bluesabre> yeah
<knome> like, before UI/string freeze, then again before translation freeze
<bluesabre> right
<knome> currently it's been a hide & seek game, where you try to catch somebody who has upload rights for that
<knome> and then resort to poking stgraber who does that on top of all the other work he does
<knome> well, Riddell did it this time, so maybe there's so improvement to the situation from now on.
<knome> who knows
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> I think ScottK can do it as well
<bluesabre> and he's almost always around
<knome> how does one check package upload permissions per package
<bluesabre> no clue, I'd probably wget everything in http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/packagesets/utopic/
<bluesabre> and then grep
<bluesabre> because I have no other idea :)
<bluesabre> anything in universe is motu
<knome> ubuntu-desktop has that as well
<knome> err, at least
<knome> i think that's it
<knome> because there is no packageset related to the installer team
<knome> and nobody else outside that team has a specific upload right for that
<bluesabre> yeah
<knome> source: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/archive-permissions/
<bluesabre> neat
<knome> but yeah... it's ok not to have it as long as the uploads work as expected
<bluesabre> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2014-September/000722.html
<bluesabre> ^ thats the one
<bluesabre> so, we'll leave it to the installer team for now
<knome> yup
<elfy> knome: did anything more than adding W to people arriving from the website happen? 
<knome> yes, installer should have i and docs d
<elfy> woohoo 
<knome> the online docs do not have d yet, but will when lyz rebuilds that
<knome> at least i think it is like that
<pleia2> I have no idea what you're talking about
<pleia2> w i d
<knome> pleia2, :)
<knome> pleia2, bug 1369100
<ubottu> bug 1369100 in xubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "Update Xubuntu infrastructure to be able to gather statistics about IRC support" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1369100
<Unit193> pleia2: IRC nicks, xubuntu33W
<knome> i told you about it
<pleia2> oh :)
<elfy> hi Unit193 pleia2 
<pleia2> knome: yeah, I was lacking context
<Unit193> elfy: Howdy.
<knome> :)
<knome> i guess it hasn't landed in docs yet
<knome> bah
<knome> i think the online docs ought to be "..o"
<knome> and yeah, that's possible since it's only the startpage
<knome> hmmwait, i think we just lack a changelog entry for the docs
<Unit193> Well, at any rate, website is clearly the highest.
<knome> looks like it
<elfy> Unit193: yep :)
<elfy> do we point to #xubuntu from facebook or the like?
<pleia2> nope, just link to website support page
<elfy> ok
<Unit193> In fact, based on this little information so far, I'm almost ready to propose we drop the link from the installer.
<knome> pleia2, lp:~xubuntu-website/xubuntu-website/docs-startpage updated
<knome> Unit193, because?
<pleia2> knome: thanks, I'll get to it tonightish
<knome> no hurry
<Unit193> knome: It would seem the only people that use it, don't need support (which is to be expected) and are just dropping by for a visit.
<knome> though that's not exactly a bad thing either
<knome> some want to say "hey, this is awesome", which is nice
<knome> and i think it's also informational... even if they don't use it at *that* point, at least we're telling them about the channel
<knome> and while we do that, i don't see why we wouldn't link it
<Unit193> Heh, it tends to be more offtopic, yeah.  I'll generally stop and interact with them a little though.
<knome> bbl
#xubuntu-devel 2014-10-08
<bluesabre> elfy: did the dailies fail to build yesterdaay?
<bluesabre> knome: NonLanguagePackTranslationDeadline tomorrow, does that affect us?
<slickymasterWork> I don't think so bluesabre 
<knome> bluesabre, well that's practically our translation deadline, since we don't have stuff that's in language packs
<bluesabre> ok, thought so
<slickymasterWork> yeaps
<slickymasterWork> hi knome 
<knome> bluesabre, so kind of, if we want new translations in, we should do it before that
<knome> bluesabre, talk to Unit193 and check if there are new translations for the docs that we'd prefer in
<bluesabre> ok
<knome> (if any has bumped over 80% meanwhile)
<bluesabre> thanks knome, that's what I was looking for
<slickymasterWork> none knome 
<knome> i think that's the only worthwhile thing to do for non-LTS
<knome> slickymasterWork, hey :)
<slickymasterWork> neither the spanish, the french or the russian made it :P
<knome> well also, if some languages are really close, today is the time to tell the translators to take the last plunge
<knome> hmm, occitan has 703 strings translated :P
<knome> no
<knome> untranslated
<knome> spanish says 26 untranslated in LP
<knome> that sounds like a winner
<knome> the french are ~70 strings away
<knome> russian: ~110
<knome> (away from including)
<qwebirc934011> I was wrong, the spanish is 96.8%
<knome> 13:26  knome: spanish says 26 untranslated in LP
<knome> 13:26  knome: that sounds like a winner
<bluesabre> oh nice
<bluesabre> guess I will be doing an upload for that one then
<qwebirc934011> great
<knome> they should invent a web irc client that can work through disconnects or at least show the history from the channel during the last few minutes
<qwebirc934011> or someone could improve my work connectivity 
<knome> like your boss? :P
<slickymasterWork> lol, that would be fun
<slickymasterWork> brb ->
<bluesabre> http://scrollback.io/
<bluesabre> the numix folks use it
<knome> i guess he wouldn't be happy if you told him "the connection is too lousy to IRC, please get a better connection"
<knome> right
<knome> i guess that involves a bot on the channel, right?
<bluesabre> not sure, but that would make sense
<knome> okay
<bluesabre> https://scrollback.io/numix?tab=people seems to mirror #numix, none of their bots have obvious names
<bluesabre> indicator-sound got an update yesterday
<bluesabre> I'm scared
<knome> :P
<bluesabre> uh oh
<bluesabre> about to be kicked
<knome> :D
<knome> nah
<knome1> hello
<knome> >__<
<bluesabre> hey knome1
<bluesabre> :P
<knome> first thing i notice, it doesn't handle conflicting nicks nicely
<knome> in scrollback, my nick is knome1, and here, the scrollback nick is obviously knome1...
<knome> and it seems like the interface is way too airy
<bluesabre> scrollback1 is here too
<knome> https://scrollback.io/xubuntu-devel?tab=info
<knome> yes, that's the bot that reads the channel
<knome> i invited it
<knome> that's why i needed ops
<bluesabre> oh
<bluesabre> lol
<knome> hmm
<bluesabre> so yeah, it messes up nicks
<knome> yeah
<knome> that's stupid
<knome> and i can see a whopping 9 lines of text on my screen with scrollback
<knome> that's not very handy really
<bluesabre> yeah, not a huge fan of the fluffiness
<knome> ok, i'll kill this
<bluesabre> but, just thought I'd mention that it exists
<knome> yeah, good one ;)
<knome> just not for us
<knome> the whole experience is a bit meh
<knome> there's no way to access your personal details unless you join a room
<knome> and the default is to send email notifications about (i guess) pings with your nick
<knome> but that's not mentioned anywhere, except if you happen to find your way to the options
<ochosi> bluesabre: oh, there's a new version of indicator sound?
<ochosi> that can
<ochosi> 't be good, can it?
<ochosi> :)
<bluesabre> :)
<elfy> bluesabre: appear to not be building for anyone last I looked
<knome> elfy, did you want to drop the qa incentives discussion from the agenda or do i just misremember?
<knome> bluesabre, hold on a second with the docs upload.
<knome> elfy, could've done that for you, just wanted a confirmation :)
<elfy> knome: LOL - I have *just this minute* removed that :)
<knome> yeah, i noticed...
<elfy> :)
<elfy> I didn't see your ping till I'd done
<knome> heh
<elfy> just catching up on mails - saw the update to it
<knome> bluesabre, you're safe now, just pushed a tiny commit
<knome> Unit193, ^ fix for es.po is in trunk
<knome> ah, finally
<knome> wrote a gresemonkey script that converts the "Discard all messages marked Defer" to a label
<knome> so you don't have to hit the checkbox, you can simply click the label/text
<knome> (and if any moderator is interested, it's definitely to share)
<elfy> ochosi: ok - so at some point today timeout:  600    cycle:  600 appeared - nothing to do with me
<elfy> had a whole bunch of updates
<elfy> http://pastebin.com/2dd0g6jQ
<elfy> those this morning and these http://pastebin.com/LXM2wYdC this afternoon - pretty positive that the change in timeout occurred after this lot
<elfy> everything in power manager is still set to Never
<elfy> and xset -q timeout is as above
<elfy> I have to move the settings in xfpm to something other than Never
<elfy> then set them to Never so that they do set to what I want
<elfy> Standby: 0    Suspend: 0    Off: 0
<Unit193> knome: That's half the fix.
<knome> Unit193, aha
<knome> Unit193, anyway.
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/9FvPm0DE5nTZpq0nGkaQ current stats.
<knome> yeah, i looked at the LP translation stats.
<Unit193> No idea if the stats online differ, I should check.
<knome> looked like es made the cut
<ochosi> elfy: possibly the new kernel reset these settings
<ochosi> it's odd though
<elfy> I've got an old vm I can test that with 
<ochosi> that'd be great
<elfy> yea - odd indeed
<ochosi> i wonder a bit what to do about it
<ochosi> i mean it's a bit of a conceptual question
<ochosi> one way to solve this would be to just force xfpm to overrule X11's own settings if they differ
<ochosi> the other option is to update the settings UI with the X11 value in case they differ
<ochosi> humm, if only one day nouveau drivers would not make my fans spin all the time...
<knome> what's wrong with enthusiastic fans?
<knome> :P
<ochosi> well, they make me say "settle down, folks" all the time
<ochosi> and that's exhausting
<genii> Plus being wasteful of electricity
<knome> genii, depends if the fans are ecological or not...
<knome> genii, but maybe you missed my crooked interpretation about "fans"
 * Unit193 got it. :D
<genii> Oddly i used to have the opposite issue with the nvidia driver, the fan never got triggered and gpu overheated
 * genii eyeball-rolls
<Unit193> Only one?  That's not good.
<elfy> ochosi: so kernel update didn't do it
<elfy> entirely possible it's something else locally doing it - no-one else appears to be affected by it - or leave the times at default :)
<elfy> ochosi: so updated that completely and no change - I think I will just assume it to be a local issue which will be gone in November when it's VV here instead
<Unit193> Oi, not going to update that soon after. :3
<elfy> I will - probably
<knome> :)
<elfy> just not in vbox ... 
<elfy> ochosi: did you talk to xnox again yet?
<elfy> I'll find out tomorrow - night all :)
<ali1234> how do you mark a file as executable with thunar?
<knome> i don't think you do :)
<Unit193> Properties -> last tab
<ali1234> doesn't work, i can only set read/write permissions
<knome> Unit193, yep, there's no executable bit checkbox.
<ali1234> there is if the file is a "program" - presumably elf?
<Unit193> Checked, it's pcmanfm that I was thinking of, my bad.
<ali1234> it also knows about shell scripts. i wonder how that actually works?
<ochosi> humm, is it possible that a blueman update changed the icon-name of its indicator in 14.10?
<knome> are there any reasons (apart that it's stupid) to mark a regular file as executable?
<ali1234> java jars?
<ali1234> i was just looking at this bug: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7677
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 7677 in general "cannot execute executable jar files" [Normal,Needinfo]
<ochosi> can anyone confirm that it's not the white bt-symbol anymore but one with a blue oval as background?
<ali1234> https://github.com/blueman-project/blueman/commit/d1772f678724de394e5b11eca10ab7de07895eac <- related?
<ali1234> looks related to me...
<ali1234> the icon used to be "bluetooth" now it is "blueman"
<ochosi> just realised i had 1.99 from a ppa
<knome> " :) "
<ochosi> yup, but thanks for the hint ali1234 
<ochosi> i'll be ahead this time and just add the symlinks now :)
<ochosi> gah, that is sooo silly
<knome> what is?
<ochosi> we're carrying "blueman-tray-active" etc for the *old* blueman
<ochosi> then "bluetooth-active" for the current blueman
<knome> " :) "
<ochosi> and now we'll have another set of symlinks for "blueman-active" for the new one...
<knome> how nice of them
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> anyway, we support it all now
<ochosi> (at least in git)
<knome> can't applications support fallbacks?
<ochosi> yup, they can
<knome> yeah...
<ochosi> (i knew it was a rhetorical question, but i felt like giving a rhetorical answer)
<knome> :)
<knome> it half-was rhetorical
<ochosi> right, i guess that does make my answer half-rhetorical too then :]
<knome> hah
<ochosi> time to sleep, night everyone
<knome> nighty ochosi 
<dkessel> is there a page or document with proposals for packages to be replaced or added in 15.04?
<skellat> dkessel: Not yet
<knome> umh, in what scope? all repositories? xubuntu? replaced/added in the seed?
<dkessel> scope: xubuntu - i guess i mean replaced/added in the seed
<knome> in that case, as skellat said, not yet
<dkessel> ok. if that happens, consider deja-dup ;)
#xubuntu-devel 2014-10-09
<bluesabre> Unit193: -docs ready for translations upload?
 * Unit193 shrugs.
<bluesabre> sounds good to me
<bluesabre> :P
<Unit193> Well, half of the es.po problem is fixed, but you won't pick up any new translations based on the logic used, see my last paste.
<bluesabre> ah, I see
<bluesabre> no biggie
<Unit193> So, is there a point?
<bluesabre> there's not
 * bluesabre is upload free
<Unit193> I could fix that.
<bluesabre> No doubt.
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> anything you want me to land in the packageset?
<Unit193> Any more external, but related plugins/programs?  thunar-vcs-plugin, thunar-dropbox-plugin, etc?
<bluesabre> would be good to add
<Unit193> Also we could drop the translated percent to 70. :D
<bluesabre> going to apply for motu at the beginning of 14.10
<Unit193> 15.04?
<Unit193> And, great!
<bluesabre> 15.04, yeah, that one
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> Means I get to bug you for even more uploads... :D
<bluesabre> yup
<bluesabre> fun times ahead ;)
<Unit193> Anywho, better run before I get clobbered in the head too.
<bluesabre> :)
 * bluesabre relaxes for another evening
<pleia2> updated docs.xubuntu.org
<elfy> thanks pleia2 
<Unit193> o = online docs?
<pleia2> something like that
 * pleia2 looks at her watch
<pleia2> elfy: good... morning?
<pleia2> I don't even think it's a real time there
<elfy> well it's morning ... ;)
<elfy> I'll be tired tonight I think
<pleia2> if you make it to the night
<pleia2> hehe
<elfy> :)
<Unit193> I'll presume we have zero interest in either of the ones http://keithhedger.hostingsiteforfree.com/pages/apps.html#xfcecomp and little to no for https://github.com/cedl38/xfce4-windowck-plugin?
<knome> hmf, i guess some of our users would be interested in the latter, but getting that to work within the "xubuntu experience" we'd need to do a modified version of greybird too, and.. meh
<knome> and i guess some are interested about the first, but i don't think that's the customisability we want to encourage...
<slickymasterWork> Unit193, not sure if we ought drop the translated percent to 70
<slickymasterWork> that would make almost a third of the docs untranslated, but publishable :P 
<slickymasterWork> which, honestly, seems a lot to me
<dkessel> drop it to 50% then, then we have a german translation too :p
<dkessel> no honestly... i don't think 70% is fun to read for someone who isn't very good at interpreting the mixed-in english parts
<slickymasterWork> dkessel, you know that you're sort of obliged to have them entirely translated before 15.04, don't you? ;P
 * slickymasterWork hopes that dkessel won't have any doubts about that
<dkessel> slickymasterWork: of course... ;) i hope there aren't many changes until then... i don't want to restart at 25% or so... :/
<slickymasterWork> lol, I was half-joking dkessel
<slickymasterWork> but no, I don't see that there will be any major changes, besides the NetworkManager, when it finally drops
<slickymasterWork> the new one that is
<dkessel> slickymasterWork: ;) we'll see...
<slickymasterWork> yeaps
<dkessel> honestly, i would love to see the website translatable, too
<Noskcaj> dkessel, That's an old bug, still a long way off fixed
<slickymasterWork> nag knome about it ;)
<slickymasterWork> hey Noskcaj o/
<dkessel> good morning, btw
<ochosi> bluesabre: realised today that i'm still using the nouveau driver in 14.10 and that is known to be racy with the way the greeter paints the background. hopefully that'll really be fixed with andrew's changes
<bluesabre> ugh
<bluesabre> can anybody else confirm with the latest indicator-sound...
<bluesabre> "Volume" notification at startup, and when scrolling the indicator?
<bluesabre> update and restart and you'll know what I mean
<bluesabre> brb
<dkessel> bluesabre: i noticed the volume notification at startup, too. got a bug number?
<bluesabre> not yet
<bluesabre> going to see if its already filed and file one
<bluesabre> ochosi: https://launchpad.net/~lightdm-gtk-greeter-team/+archive/ubuntu/daily
<bluesabre> since we merged the single-window branch
<bluesabre> ochosi, elfy: bug 1379287
<ubottu> bug 1379287 in indicator-sound (Ubuntu) "Blank "Volume" notification displayed at startup and when scrolling the indicator." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1379287
<slickymasterWork> bluesabre, Bug #1379287 confirmed
<ubottu> bug 1379287 in indicator-sound (Ubuntu) "Blank "Volume" notification displayed at startup and when scrolling the indicator." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1379287
<bluesabre> good, not crazy
<bluesabre> :)
<slickymasterWork> :)
<brainwash> bluesabre: how long should we wait until pinging the sru team?
<brainwash> bug 1365965
<ubottu> bug 1365965 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "[MRE] Please update xfdesktop4 to 4.11.8 in Trusty" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1365965
<bluesabre> brainwash: I'll start pinging tonight
<bluesabre> I have a few packages that are waiting to be accepted into trusty-proposed
<brainwash> ok then
<bluesabre> thanks for the reminder :)
<brainwash> bluesabre: no progress with bug 1320560, do we wait for someone to test the packages?
<ubottu> bug 1320560 in xscreensaver (Ubuntu) "Removal of gdmflexiserver breaks user switching" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1320560
<bluesabre> I need to expand the patches to support gdmflexiserver and dm-tool
<brainwash> utopic release is soon
<bluesabre> I know
<brainwash> I see, good to know :)
<bluesabre> going to work on a resolution this weekend
<bluesabre> need to go get ready for work now
<bluesabre> bbl
<slickymasterWork> hf bluesabre 
<vertz> indicator-sound broke! two notifications
<ochosi> oh lordy, so indicator-sound's update really did break something (i guess anything else would've been a surprise)
<bluesabre> I was just joking when I mentioned that initially :(
<ochosi> yeah, well, i was only half-joking
<ochosi> bluesabre: i've started pinging around in u-desktop already
<bluesabre> ochosi: thanks
<ochosi> elfy: i already pinged xnox again but wasn't around at the same time as him seemingly, so no reply yet
<bluesabre> joined -desktop
<bluesabre> now heading to work
<bluesabre> bbl
<ochosi> yup, have a good day!
<knome> dkessel, slickymasterWork: bug 797600
<ubottu> bug 797600 in Xubuntu Website "Enable translations for the Xubuntu website" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/797600
<knome> especially comment #9
<slickymasterWork> yeah knome, I completely forgot about that one :P
<knome> and i've also proposed other ideas (like having a simple landing page and doing translations for that...)
<knome> which would probably, in the long run, be much more maintainable
<slickymasterWork> I remember the discussion about that landing page
<slickymasterWork> and yes, I agree with it being much more maintainable 
<knome> other weren't so exctied about that, so...
 * knome shrugs
<knome> maybe if i take the website lead hat (back) from the reluctantish lyz...
<knome> :P
<slickymasterWork> besides if finding that WP plugin reveals to be impossible, and writing one difficult, to say the leas, the landing page is the perfect solution
<slickymasterWork> s/leas/Ã§eat
 * slickymasterWork sigh
<knome> the situation is that i have been writing one
<slickymasterWork> least
<knome> but since i want to do it *right*, and since it's definitely not the easiest things to do...
<slickymasterWork> when I say difficult, I mean time consuming knome 
<knome> well it's also difficult in parts :P
<slickymasterWork> exactly 
<knome> and the landing page idea could be put into practice almost now
<knome> the only thing to decide/work out is how we would technically maintain the translations
<knome> the ideal situation would be to create a .pot that could be translatable in launchpad, and in some way automatically/from the wordpress GUI updates
<knome> updated*
<knome> but don't know how willing the IS is for something like that
<slickymasterWork> pleia2 would be the perfect person to approach them on that, I'd assume
<knome> i'm just as perfect
<knome> even better - i understand the technical side
<knome> :P
<knome> i'm not saying she doesn't... but it's more of my expertise anyway
<slickymasterWork> I was thinking on the number of persons she probably already know
<knome> but also, with that experience, i'm kind of sure they won't want to do that
<knome> i know those people too, and i'm sure they know me as well as the one who complains about X, Y and Z :D
<knome> (and lyz as the person who complains about A, B and C)
<slickymasterWork> lol, what about a joint-venture of complainers ;)
<knome> and generally i don't want to mess her into the issue if it's not required; less work for her is better
<knome> and since i would be the one working on the technical side anyway...
<slickymasterWork> yeah, you're right
<knome> one possibility would be to store the .po files on the canonical server where lyz has access
<knome> but i'm not sure if they want to do that either
<slickymasterWork> and then what? update manually WP?
<knome> the best option from the IS POV, as i see it, is that we handle updating them manually
<knome> we could write a plugin that fetches a .po file if it's available
<slickymasterWork> hm hm
<knome> but there would still be a problem...
<knome> how to create the .pot file
<knome> that already sounds like non-trivial
<knome> well, there are libraries for that, but...
<knome> it's all a bit wonky
<knome> they don't want more code
<knome> we don't want more maintaining
<knome> and even if we got more code in, we'd have to maintain it
<elfy> hi peeps
<knome> so really, a plugin for translations inside WP would be the perfect solution for both parties
<knome> but as noted, that's not trivial either
<knome> and it's not an instant gratification route ;)
<slickymasterWork> so either way, we're facing a sort of a herculean task :p 
<knome> hey elfy 
<knome> yep.
<slickymasterWork> hey elfy 
<knome> and it's probably me who takes it :P
<knome> so the question is
<knome> do we want something that's mostly only useful for us
<knome> or something that can be useful for others
<knome> including me for my commercial work
<knome> guess which one i'll pick :P
<slickymasterWork> :)
<elfy> yay for sound indicator - I knew it wouldn't let us down :p
<knome> yeah...
<knome> too bad they let changes in this late
<knome> always sucks
<elfy> yep
<elfy> mmm
<elfy> so just updated - indicator-messages was included - double vol icon now gone here
<elfy> bluesabre ochosi ^^
<ochosi> elfy: sound indicator is already fixed in trunk
<ochosi> i've tried to reach xnox without success though
<elfy> ochosi: already fixed here without a sound indicator update
<ochosi> weird, not fixed here
<ochosi> are we talking about the same issue though?
<elfy> yep - saw the xnox comment earlier
<ochosi> when using the mouse-wheel over the sound-indicator, two bubbles appear
<elfy> yea - two vol icons 
<ochosi> no, notifications
<ochosi> not icons
<elfy> oh = hang on this is odd then
<ochosi> yeah, i think you're talking about a different issue
<elfy> so with vol keys - had the same thing 
<elfy> no I'm not :)
<elfy> that's fixed after indi-messages update - still got the mouse led issue though
<elfy> and I meant notifications 
<ochosi> odd
<ochosi> well, lucky you i guess
<ochosi> but the offending commit hasn't been removed and uploaded afaik
<elfy> not seen that arrive here yet
<knome> ochosi, pi-ping, we were wondering if you'd join us for a game of hanabi today ;)
<knome> (since you didn't react to the -ot ping)
<Unit193> bluesabre: es jumped to 90%.
<Unit193> There's still a slight problem with it, but still.
<knome> oi.
<knome> Unit193, how do we fix the other part?
<Unit193> #xubuntu-devel.2014-09-30.log.gz:15:25:15 <Unit193> line 973 in es.po: https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/utopic/+pots/desktop-guide/es/+translate?batch=10&show=all&search=Temas+GTK
<knome> oh, broken tags
<Unit193> Heh, translating things they shouldn't, no big worry.
<knome> am i a contributor to the spanish translation already?
<Unit193> Of course, likely.
<Unit193> Yep.
<knome> so what's wrong in that
<knome> other than the tags
<knome> oh
<knome> placeholders
<Unit193> And a few things, yeah.
<knome> ok, that should be correct now
<knome> tags being correct (no spaces) and placeholder tags as should
<Unit193> I can do a testbuild when you push it, or however lp works.
<Unit193> dkessel: Also, not sure if it helps you but I've got a daily build, it shows revno too.
<elfy> ochosi bluesabre - that pending update to ind-sound fixed it here
<Unit193> ochosi: Not sure if you want these for -extras: https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/ubuntu/xfce/+packages?field.name_filter=hamster&field.status_filter=published&field.series_filter=
<bluesabre> Unit193: freeze declared yet?
<Unit193> -release doesn't mention it. :P
<bluesabre> nice
<bluesabre> Unit193: poke
<Unit193> knome's fault.
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> anything I should know about the -docs pkg?
<Unit193> lint it, think a line was too long?
<bluesabre> is there a build script that discards the translations?
<bluesabre> or how does that work?
<Unit193> po/LINGUAS has the ones that will be built, the build process updates that.
<bluesabre> ok cool
<Unit193> However, translators.sh doesn't work in chroot right now. :/
<Unit193> If you can find the fix, that'd be great. :P
<bluesabre> Nah, going to land the package before freeze instead ;)
<bluesabre> xubuntu-docs (14.10.1) utopic; urgency=medium
<bluesabre>   * Translation updates.
<bluesabre>     - Include Spanish (es).
<bluesabre>     - Updates for Finnish (fi) and Russian (ru).
<Unit193> Russian?
<bluesabre> so it seems
<bluesabre> debdiff http://paste.ubuntu.com/8529853/
<Unit193> +es  yep only new one is es, ru isn't shipped.
<Unit193> Any build errors?
<bluesabre> building now
<bluesabre> built fine
<bluesabre> yup, ru not included
<bluesabre> ok, ready to upload
<Unit193> Credits still missing?
<bluesabre> where would they be?
<Unit193> Something like /es/ln-idp35527212.html
<bluesabre> https://imgur.com/lc86OZ8
#xubuntu-devel 2014-10-10
<Unit193> https://unit193.net/xubuntu/es/ln-idp35527212.html so nope.  Alright, seems fine.
<bluesabre> yay, we were productive :)
 * bluesabre high fives Unit193
<Unit193> :P
<ochosi> Unit193: i've heard about that hamster, guess i'll have to take a look to see what it is all about
<ochosi> bbl
<knome> so, looked at refreshing the mirror list on the download page with lyz yesterday
<knome> http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-mirrors
<knome> there's a draft email, and a proposal of the new mirror list
<knome> comments are welcome
<elfy> looks ok to me - I assume you'll not be sending the xx :)
<knome> hehe, nope :)
<elfy> :)
<knome> just a placeholder for whoever sends the mail
<elfy> imo should probably come from XPL 
<knome> i don't think that's necessary, but we could CC simon if we want it to be more official
<elfy> yep - not that bothered - was just a comment :)
<ochosi> feel free to send it, i agree that it's not necessary that i do that
<knome> yeah
<ochosi> otherwise i'd have to take care of all "official" business, and what would the other team leads be good for then :>
<knome> yeah
<knome> or other team members
<knome> that's exactly what i tried to communicate when i was XPL - we can/should share the workload
<ochosi> yup
<knome> and people need to get privileges (with reponsibility of course)
<ochosi> hierarchies should never be in the way of getting stuff done
<knome> absolutely
<knome> or drag getting them done
<elfy> here's something that people can share the workload for 
<elfy> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker
<elfy> on a slightly more serious note - can anyone think of a reason to bother calling next week?
<ochosi> it's not a lot of work to do so and if we stop bothering now, why bother next time?
<ochosi> basically you can reduce your workload there by recycling a previous email
<elfy> well - that's probably the point I'm making - why bother next time either
<knome> elfy, this has been said n time before, but as i see it, it's just the LTS+1 release that is quieter
<knome> and i agree that we need a better, more structured and supported QA cycle for 15.04
<knome> how to achieve more QA results with that is a mystery to me, but we should work on it *somehow*
<knome> the incentives program is a good start
<elfy> knome: LTS+1 might well be quieter - that's not a reason for people in -team to not bother - all that does is make whoever is QA lead feel worthless
<elfy> and quite frankly atm it may well be someone else feeling that way after this cycle
<elfy> because if QA cannot rely on -team to test - then it's really all rather pointless
<knome> elfy, i'm not saying it's any reason, or that it can't create negative feelings
<knome> while i think -team should be there to test if it's needed, i'd just so much rather would change that sentence to "if QA cannot rely on the community testing"
<elfy> sorry - don't agree
<knome> because really, the -team already does this and that and in the long run, it's unsustainable to rely on them doing the testing as well
<knome> note, i'm not saying -team shouldn't do any testing at all
<elfy> it's team that puts it together and says "Hey, look what we've got for everyone" 
<knome> just that they shouldn't be the ones doing the heavy lifting
<elfy> knome: from where I stand it should be team + everyone else
<elfy> 30 minutes at a milestone
<knome> sure, team should be the group that does the preliminary testing
<knome> but the team cannot conduct enough testing to be "trustworthy"
<elfy> that isn't the point
<knome> and what i mean with that is that if 10 people test an OS and it works with them, it's by no means enough to know that there aren't critical bugs
<elfy> and if it is the point then we should not mark 14.10 as ready for release as it's been tested by 3 or 4 people as far as I can tell
<knome> i know it's not the main point, but it's something that we have to keep in mind
<knome> elfy, that's fair to say.
<knome> elfy, otoh, other flavors (or ubuntu desktop!) aren't tested by many more people (at least generally, i don't have the exact statistics for this cycle)
<knome> elfy, what's the level of testing you would expect from team?
<knome> elfy, one test per milestone per member?
<knome> elfy, and would that be a reason to expire members from the -team?
<knome> i'm asking this because if we want to create any (even loose) rules, we have to have some kind of goal in our head
<elfy> ubuntu desktop has the full weight of all the auto testing and a bunch of people working on it 
<elfy> not sure why you'd include that - and tbh I don't care much about other flavours
<knome> that's a great asset, but even if we had the automated testing, we'd still need to do manual tests
<knome> i'm just doing a comparison
<elfy> and as far as team is concerned - if I've actually had to go out of my way to ask team seperately - then to not do so is just ignoring me 
<elfy> which is what happened
<knome> of course it's not great to compare with other products that are as "badly" tested, but it proves something
<knome> but what's the level of testing we are expecting from the team?
<elfy> when asked is probably a good place to start 
<knome> one test when asked?
<knome> or fill in the blanks when asked?
<elfy> well I've tried both 
<elfy> got the same result
<knome> no, i mean when you ask the team to test
<knome> what do you expect them to do? run a test per person? or run all the tests that are still not done?
<elfy> run at least one
<knome> or run as many tests as they can?
<elfy> and report things if they have - we've got one I saw saying they'd installed \o/ 
<elfy> not reporting it though
<knome> that's a different problem, and with that i completely agree
<elfy> I'll say more at the beginning of next cycle probably 
<knome> http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-qa-v-cycle
<GridCube> :D 97% of the spanish translatio of docs is done, the last 20 lines need review
<GridCube> :)
<slickymasterWork> grate work GridCube, thanks for that
<bluesabre> ochosi: re https://bugs.launchpad.net/lightdm-gtk-greeter/+bug/1379710
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1379710 in LightDM GTK+ Greeter "Guest login not available with hide-users" [Undecided,New]
<bluesabre> Maybe we can consider adding a "Guest Login" button on the left or something?
<elfy> bluesabre: why is that when you add some package that it just gets added to the bottom of whatever sub-menu it ends up in?
<knome> elfy, you might want to join the pad :)
<bluesabre> limitation of xdg menus
<bluesabre> if you choose a specific order, it keeps that and everything gets appended
<elfy> knome: I'm too depressed about the whole thing to join anything but a band of travelling minstrels wandering the wilds of Siberia wearing only a loin cloth ... 
<knome> bluesabre, but since you can move it manually, shouldn't menulibre take care about that?
<elfy> bluesabre: ok - thanks 
<bluesabre> I'm going to fix that a bit in the next menulibre
<bluesabre> knome: menulibre only runs when menulibre is running :)
<knome> oh
<knome> :P
<knome> elfy, i'm honestly trying to help with it, but sure, take your time
<elfy> bluesabre: I never really noticed before - just added Abiword back and did notice - it not being at the top :)
<elfy> knome: I know :)
<bluesabre> elfy: the menulibre in v is going to do several things better, and have a nice revert menu ;)
<knome> elfy, but if you can look at it sometime before the V cycle, that'd be nice :)
<elfy> oooh - that sounds nice bluesabre :)
<knome> i think there are still a few bugs open .P
<bluesabre> knome: yeah, mr bug-report-is-really-a-feature-request
<bluesabre> :P
<knome> bluesabre, where do you want the feature requests then :P
<GridCube> slickymaster, there where other documents to translate right?
<bluesabre> dunno, probably not a better place unless I use a wiki
<bluesabre> so keep at it
<elfy> cigarette boxes perhaps - back of :)
<knome> at least the bug tracker supports wishlist as an importance..
<bluesabre> yEAH
<bluesabre> dang
<knome> :D
<slickymasterWork> GridCube -> http://pastebin.com/sfGcRQ9B
<GridCube> k, thanks slickymasterWork :)
<slickymasterWork> no
<slickymasterWork> s/no/np GridCube 
<GridCube> hehehe :)
<elfy> knome: dude - stop second guessing me :p
<knome> oops :P
<elfy> :)
<slickymasterWork> ah ah ah
<slickymasterWork> it's stronger than him elfy ;)
<knome> thanks slickymasterWork ;)
 * slickymasterWork rejoices (first time he ever caught the grammar police) ;) 
<knome> lol
<slickymasterWork> ;)
<knosys> hello
<elfy> hi knosys 
<knosys> hi! i am joining by trying to add some Spanish translations for Xubuntu documentation, if i can help you guys in whatever just ask and i will be happy helping in what i can
<slickymasterWork> knosys, as I told you before on -offtopic, just pick one from http://pastebin.com/sfGcRQ9B, and start translating
<knosys> Yes, I am on that. Im downloading documentation and getting familiarized with how user's post their suggestions
<knome> knosys, you don't need to download the documentation to do translations
<knome> knosys, or to look at it â it's shipped with every xubuntu release
<knome> apart from some small changes, the body of text is exactly the same in 14.04 than what it will be oin 14.10
<knosys> Oh then i will just switch my OS language
<knome> ...what exactly are you looking for in the documentation?
<knome> bbl
<knosys> Well, there are pieces of translation that i would like to see more in detail. For example. "rm" . And thats all. So i ask myself: 'rm' what? The command? a description? What?
<knosys> But that is all info i see, and later on the suggestions for translation's that users have submited
<slickymasterWork> knosys, I would advise you to go to the document as is now and see the line for yourself in its context
<knosys> Thats it slickymasterWork 
<slickymasterWork> :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, i guess we'd have to add an extra button or something
#xubuntu-devel 2014-10-11
<bluesabre> happy weekend everyone :)
<elfy> hey bluesabre - just rebooting, but earlier I did a bit of fiddling with that QA pad from yesterday - big lump at the bottom - you figure quite a bit in it ;)
<elfy> brb
<bluesabre> oh boy
<knome> elfy, commented
<elfy> saw
<knome> sorry for shouting the same thing over and over, but i think there's some potential there we haven't used to its full capacity
<knome> because i can easily commit to using a PPA on my production machine since i know that if it miserably fails at a critical moment, i can just turn it off to get on with my work
<elfy> tbh some/many ordinary users can't risk production machine either - hence " in some way "
<knome> yes, but it's evident that using a staging PPA isn't really the same as running the dev version :)
<elfy> but my basic assumption is that if someone is 'developing' foo for bar - then they must be looking at how it looks in bar - or guessing :p
<knome> yep
<knome> that's true
<knome> that sounds more like a (given) process requirement for developers
<elfy> but yes I totally agree that we could do more with the PPA idea we started to look at earlier in this cycle
<knome> but that only covers some of the team, not all of us are actually developing stuff (where it actually matters what the version is)
<elfy> I am still completely confused as to which ones are which - so I just don't
<knome> eg. working on the docs definitely does not require running the dev version :D
<elfy> knome: yea I know
<elfy> I haven't said "Assumption being that (at least some of) xubuntu-team is using the dev version during the dev cycle."
<knome> bluesabre, when are you going to land the updated PPA descriptions?
<bluesabre> I thought I did...
<knome> looks like you didn't
<knome> :)
<bluesabre> woops
<elfy> I'd at least hope that people are looking at what they're putting their name too in vm at some point
<bluesabre> have the link to the pad?
<knome> bluesabre, no, but i can dig it up :P
<bluesabre> I can dig it up too :)
<elfy> http://pad.ubuntu.com/vQ8LL4MVaW
 * elfy did dig it up :p
<bluesabre> lightning
<elfy> bluesabre: lol - more likely that I got so lost with pads - I bookmark them and give them sensible names :)
<knome> yep
<knome> that's why you should give them sensible names when creating them :P
<elfy> :)
 * bluesabre doesn't know how to rename a pad
<knome> bluesabre, you don't rename
<knome> bluesabre, just go to http://pad.ubuntu.com/new-pad-name
<knome> and it asks if you want to create that
<bluesabre> didn't know that
<bluesabre> now I do
<bluesabre> :)
<knome> good
<elfy> http://pad.ubuntu.com/callmewhatyouwill
<knome> elfy, waayy too slow :P
<elfy> well - just letting people catch up with the lightning :D
<knome> heh
<bluesabre> updated
<knome> great
 * knome considers if we should add those descriptions to the processses wiki page too
<elfy> well - it would be nice to try and tie all these ends together 
<knome> yep
<knome> as it is, there's no official/final blessing that this is the way we intend to use these PPA's
<knome> but unofficially, that's how they have been used
<bluesabre> hey ochosi
<elfy> got sidetracked doing forumy things
<elfy> I think perhaps the PPAs and how we're going to use them could be documented 
<knome> bluesabre, merge done
<bluesabre> thanks knome
<ochosi> hey bluesabre 
<elfy> hi ochosi 
<ochosi> hey elfy 
<sidi> hey olli_ 
<bluesabre> whats up?
 * sidi waves at knome, bluesabre, ochosi and the rest of the universe.
<bluesabre> hey sidi!
<sidi> olli_, knome told me you were a mir dev? mind if i ask you how you guys are planning to do security on privileged interfaces in mir?
<ochosi> bluesabre: not too much, just took an hour to clean my ibm model m keyboard
<ochosi> yuck, keyboard can become really disgusting
<bluesabre> ew
<bluesabre> anybody still running trusty?
<bluesabre> need SRU verification, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mugshot/+bug/1374802
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1374802 in mugshot (Ubuntu Trusty) "[SRU] Mugshot 0.2.5 for Trusty" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<jjfrv8> bluesabre, verified ^
<bluesabre> jjfrv8: you get a cookie.
<bluesabre> :D
<jjfrv8> :)
<bluesabre> brainwash_: patches updated here: https://launchpad.net/~bluesabre/+archive/ubuntu/lp1320560
<bluesabre> xfswitch-plugin and xfce4-panel now support dm-tool or gdmflexiserver
<bluesabre> with a preference for dm-tool
<bluesabre> whisker and xscreensaver are significantly more difficult to support both
<bluesabre> Unit193 too ^
<Unit193> You looked into it, good enough for me.
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Were you preparing the xfce4-weather-plugin SRU or should i?
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: still around?
<Noskcaj> yeah
<bluesabre> I can go ahead and do it now for trusty
<Noskcaj> ty
<bluesabre> we'll have to do it for precise too, will try to also get to that
<bluesabre> hm, precise might not actually need it, uses a different api
 * bluesabre downloads precise image
<skellat> bluesabre: Make sure you close out the bug that opened up earlier for Trusty on the weather plugin
<bluesabre> skellat, a new one?
<bluesabre> checking
<skellat> Yeah, it was a bug today
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> marking as a dupe
 * skellat is literally and figuratively "cleaning house"
<bluesabre> :)
 * bluesabre just finished eating 1 lb of pineapple
<skellat> What are we looking at for QA changes going forward?
<knome> skellat, getting more tests and more out of the testing we do.
<skellat> Optimizing our allocation and expediture of human capital then?
<bluesabre> mostly, still not convinced that Unit193 is not a well-designed bot
<skellat> Okay
<Unit193> Try harder.
<skellat> I'm low on non-production non-ARM hardware
 * bluesabre notes that skellat can test builds on ARM
<skellat> I don't think Alan Bell ever got that archive recompilation started for Raspberry Pi, though.  That and OMAP stuff like the BeagleBoard-xM went EOL in favor of the Sitara processor in the BeagleBone Black.
<skellat> 14.10 has been working surprisingly well on my amd64 laptop
<drc> huh..known problem with an image file and the default app?  New 14.10 install, jpg's start opening with Firefox...I changed default to imagemagick (just to test), now can't change the default.  Even though the "Open With" says Restretto, double clicking continues to open with Imagemagick.
#xubuntu-devel 2014-10-12
<xubuntu09w> is there anyway i can remove the mounted internal hdd icons from my desktop?
<skellat> I'm sorry xubuntu09w but that is a question that needs to be taken to the support channel, #xubuntu, instead of here
 * pleia2 pulling down dailys for an exciting saturday night
<skellat> pleia2: Will said dailies leave a smoking mess, though?
<pleia2> skellat: I don't know, will they? :)
<skellat> I'm running 14.10 on my laptop so, as it is, nothing has gone kaboom yet
<pleia2> that's good to hear
<Unit193> Oh joy, validation: https://paste.unit193.net/?63de00817bedcfa5#HlGwS2YBARmbCJWtOq3AdMvKUDMsiSS6anV74To2By4=
<Pwnna> are indicators in trusty gtk3 or gtk2?
<ali1234> gtk3
<Pwnna> so http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/devel/ubuntu-13.10/python/AppIndicator3-0.1.html?
<ali1234> yes
<Pwnna> okay
<Pwnna> thanks!
<Pwnna> ali1234: do you know where it searches for the icons?
<ali1234> no idea
<andrzejr> Pwnna, icons are provided by the indicator via libindicator
<Pwnna> andrzejr: if i have a script, for the indicator, can i put the icons in the same directory?
<Pwnna> http://askubuntu.com/questions/289279/what-are-the-design-guidelines-for-appindicator-icons
<Pwnna> i see that
<andrzejr> sorry, I don't know much about it.
<andrzejr> the plugin itself only displays what it gets from libindicator.
<andrzejr> no idea what happens before
<andrzejr> guys, any idea why xubuntu 14.04 is freezing for up to several seconds on "heavy" IO load?
<andrzejr> ("heavy" as in decompressing a large tarball or running cron)
<andrzejr> Fresh installation but for the first time the 64bit version and with full disk encryption enabled.
<ali1234> andrzejr: it's because ubuntu uses the deadline io scheduler, which is garbage for anything other than servers
<ali1234> see for example: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/770258
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 770258 in linux (Ubuntu) "Extremely high latency when writing to USB drives." [Undecided,Expired]
<ali1234> the problem with deadline is that once it misses the deadline it causes a failure cascade
<andrzejr> ali1234, I didn't have this problem on earlier versions
<ali1234> well, i did :(
<andrzejr> which were 32bit without encryption. Maybe that wasn't stressing the disk enough.
<ali1234> maybe. full disk encryption is going to mean extra stress
<ali1234> and i haven't used 32 bit since about 2008
<andrzejr> what scheduler do you recommend? cfq or noop?
<ali1234> depends on what type of disk you have
<andrzejr> (afair I have seen this problem with cfq as well)
<andrzejr> 5400rpm laptop hard drive
<ali1234> i've heard very good things about bfq
<ali1234> unfortunately it's not in kernel
<andrzejr> I will try noop for a while
<ali1234> noop literally means "don't attempt to opimize at all"
<andrzejr> I'm ok with not optimal performance, as long as it isn't disastrous
<ali1234> cfq might be better on a spinning disk
<ali1234> nobody has ever been able to adequately explain why the freezes even happen
<ali1234> but they have been a problem for a long time
<ali1234> another way it can happen is if you hit swap
<ali1234> eg if you accidentally open a huge image file and the viewer attempts to allocate several gigabytes of memory, this will freeze the entire system
<ali1234> assuming you have enough swap
<ali1234> if you press ctrl-alt-f1 it will take 15 minutes to switch to the console
<andrzejr> I've been experimenting with that (lower swappiness etc). I don't think this is the issue.
<ali1234> swappiness doesn't make any difference
<ali1234> or rather it only affects what the system does when idle
<andrzejr> the thing is, this problems occurs on fairly idle system. It's enough to run the upgrade tool and the disk activity brings the system to crawl
<ali1234> well, that is probably because of the encryption
<andrzejr> noop scheduler does not make much difference
<andrzejr> not sure if that's an unrelated problem but general system performance is pretty bad at times. Even playing some flash videos can result in 1fps slideshow.
<andrzejr> it's i5 machine with 4GB and NVidia graphics card. Currently with nouveau drivers but I've seen same behavior with NVidia drivers
<ali1234> well, all i can say is you're lucky it runs at all with nouveau
<andrzejr> ttyl, going to reboot the system with noautogroup to see if it makes a difference
<skellat> ali1234: Have you been tracking the deadline/cfq debate on ubuntu-release@lists.ubuntu.com that K has stirred up?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> hahaha i love how he accidentally wrote "deadlock" instead of "deadline"
<skellat> The Kubuntu folks are trying to force a switch from deadline to cfq for K via a udev rule in a unique way that could screw with other flavors
<ali1234> we should support them, deadline is crap
<skellat> Trying to pass it through via their flavor's -default-settings
<ali1234> cfq should be the default for all of ubuntu
<skellat> ali1234: Well, that's a case the crack testing squad needs to make as slangasek and others have been dead set on keeping deadline
<andrzejr> so far the system booted with noautogroup works much better but I will leave it running for several days. I have a feeling the performance issues may be related to suspend/resume cycles
<ali1234> well feel free to post my bug report from TWO YEARS AGO :)
<ali1234> popey also has experience of this issue
<skellat> I'm mostly trying to stay out of the fireworks
<skellat> Multiple lists are being copied and I'm only seeing what is on the -release list
<ali1234> i only subscribe to ubuntu-devel and xubuntu-devel
<ali1234> and the former seems to be "ubuntu-phone" now
<ali1234> so i don't actually bother to read it very often
<skellat> I could have sworn the phone people had a separate list
<ali1234> they do
<andrzejr> hmm #1219548
<ali1234> bug 1219548
<ubottu> bug 1219548 in linux (Ubuntu) "sched_autogroup_enabled breaks niceness" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1219548
<ali1234> what is noautogroup?
<andrzejr> kernel option that disables process grouping, which apparently breaks ionice
<andrzejr> seems consistent with what I'm experiencing
<skellat> Which was what the K folks were worried about
<skellat> ionice & their package BALOO
<skellat> If they can't ship baloo they're likely not shipping K 14.10
<skellat> Or so it has been threatened
<ali1234> my bug report is actually from three and a half years ago, when ubuntu was still using cfq
<ali1234> i still get the freezes though
<ali1234> so clearly switching to deadline didn't help
<skellat> And I just heard a breaker trip on a UPS so I best investigate...
<ali1234> anyone got a link to the udev rule? i'd like to do some long-term testing, ie change scheduler permanently
<ali1234> arch wiki to the rescue https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Solid_State_Drives#Using_udev_for_one_device_or_HDD.2FSSD_mixed_environment
 * bluesabre is amused
<bluesabre> "menulibre doesn't work... I've tried using sudo..." etc... 
<bluesabre> probably means their menus are owned by root now
<ali1234> yeah
<skellat> And this doesn't bode well: http://www.iuculano.it/linux/apt-get-purge-chromium/
<ali1234> why?
<skellat> The DD referenced as not playing nice is one of my predecessors as Ohio Leader
<ali1234> i don't understand the significance of that
<skellat> I break the line for Ohio Leader
<skellat> One of my predecessors, Paul Tagliamonte, is an FTP Master Debian-side and doesn't do much Ubuntu-side
<ali1234> what is Ohio Leader?
<skellat> Ubuntu Ohio LoCo
<ali1234> and what do you mean by "break the line"?
<skellat> Meaning that I'm the first one who isn't a Debian Developer in years who has stuck with *buntu despite all the changes that have been going on
<skellat> Though if Michael isn't playing nice upstream packaging chromium we really shouldn't sync it from Debian
<skellat> And take however large of an Ubuntu delta we have to
<ali1234> i don't get it... he downgraded chromium in experimental, which causes it to crash?
<skellat> And apparently big, unexplained commits
<ali1234> i don't like it when people write "change some stuff" as the commit message, but it's not exactly uncommon
<brainwash> so much random talk here
<brainwash> I've just installed the numix theme.. and windows 10 looks now fabulous
#xubuntu-devel 2015-10-05
<flocculant> thought I was going mad the other day when I clean installed - when did we start default install of lmsensors ? 
<knome> explicitly i don't think ever :P
<flocculant> that's what I thought - always remember having to do the whole sensors-detect and install 
<flocculant> oh 
<krytarik> flocculant: It's a recommend of Inxi.
<flocculant> krytarik: yea - that's what the oh is :p
<krytarik> :D
<flocculant> though - what runs sensors-detect 
<krytarik> flocculant: It doesn't look it is - no?
<flocculant> well - why does sensors work with that running? 
<flocculant> last time I have record of that running was pre- http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-server/daily/20150831
<flocculant> and sensors works here :)
<flocculant> at least on this install to hardware - fails in vm (probably expected)
<flocculant> intrigued enough to boot image on hardware now :)
<krytarik> Sufficient defaults, it'd seem.
<flocculant> http://paste.ubuntu.com/12689751/
<flocculant> guess so - live session
<flocculant> if I run sensors-detect I lose the graphic sensor :p
<krytarik> lol
<flocculant> no I don't - I don't have nvidia sensors 
<flocculant> only the nouveau one works it seems :D
<flocculant> enough time on that ... 
<ochosi> hm, so finally at least using xfce @work
<ochosi> already imported lots of xubuntu stuff, but rebuilding xubuntu with rpms... hrm.
<flocculant> loadsafun ...
<knome> ochosi, so are you suggesting we should just forget all OSes and start working on an xfce modification kit instead of xubuntu? :P
<ochosi> heh
<Unit193> ochosi: Not even I've done that.
<ochosi> well nah, but it's always nice to see that the grass was actually greener on the other side...
<flocculant> ha ha 
<ochosi> (given i never thought suse would be superior to xubuntu in any way)
<knome> :P
<ochosi> was also a nice experience to first be using xfce 4.10 and then upgrading to 4.12
<ochosi> it really is *so* much better...
<ochosi> so yeah, kudos to everyone here, we're doing a great job! :)
<knome> :)
<knome> you too
<Unit193> andrzejr: Hi.  You list xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin's home as  http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/panel-plugins/xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin  but that doesn't exist.
<andrzejr> Unit193, yes, I don't have access to that area. I though this would be resolved soon so I left the link in place.
<Unit193> Oh hrm, I don't suppose anyone we can help poke about that?
<andrzejr> Unit193, not sure who is doing that these days. Also, the project is not on transifex, which was the main reason for moving it from github to xfce.org.
<ochosi> i guess i could help with the goodies page at least
<Unit193> ochosi: Thank you.
<ochosi> transifex was an admin thing i guess, not sure who has access to that apart from nick
<ochosi> but i'll check
<Unit193> m8t
<ochosi> what did you want for the goodies page?
<ochosi> andrzejr: is there a place i can link to or is there any text you wanna put up there?
<ochosi> (and yeah, no access to transifex for me)
<ochosi> ok, just for the sake of the page not being non-existent i put the readme up there
<Unit193> Thanks, ochosi.
<ochosi> no problem
<flocculant> bluesabre: so when you talk about usability bugs - what about things like Printing - when you print to file ... it calls everything output.pdf, why can't it think about what document is called, when you've just changed the name ~20 times it's a pita :D
<ochosi> i guess i'll try to review the thunar docs tonight...
<knome> yay
<andrzejr> ochosi, the default About dialog has a link to a homepage. So I thought a goodies page would be the best choice.
<ochosi> sure, that's fine
<andrzejr> as for the contents, that would be a description + some docs.
<ochosi> just wasn't sure whether you had any idea what sort of text/description you wanted there
<ochosi> sure
<ochosi> not sure i'll have the time to write that up, but in case anybody else does, feel free to ping me anytime and i'll put it up there
<andrzejr> hmm.. I though writing this up would be on me. But if you or someone else wanted to help that would be great.
<ochosi> well ofc you can write this up yourself, but i'd try delegating it and writing code instead might be way cooler ;)
<ochosi> jjfrv8: in case you're looking for a new assignment... ;)
<ochosi> jjfrv8: any reason why you cut down the hidden settings page and the FAQs? those two i left untouched for now...
<ochosi> jjfrv8: ok, i'm done with the exception of FAQ and hidden settings (as mentioned above). all other sections have been reviewed and upstreamed. thanks a bunch - that must've been a lot of work! it's much appreciated!
<ochosi> jjfrv8: note: i dropped the sections you marked as deprecated in the plugins.
<ochosi> nice, the documentation blueprint for wily is done
<ochosi> go docs-team!
<knome> yay
<slickymaster> heh
#xubuntu-devel 2015-10-06
<jjfrv8> ochosi, I didn't cut down the Hidden Settings page. I thought it was done by whoever copied the source over to the wiki.
<jjfrv8> I was going to ask you what you wanted to do with it. 
<jjfrv8> As for the FAQ cut, that last section seemed to be pretty involved for something that was conceded to be not a problem for "modern desktop environments".
<jjfrv8> I was also going to ask about my next assignment. I'm pretty ignorant about pulseaudio though.
<bluesabre> jjfrv8: pulseaudio question?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Simon wanted him to write xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin stuff.
<bluesabre> ah
<knome> hello ochosi 
<ochosi> hey knome 
#xubuntu-devel 2015-10-07
<bluesabre> hey everyone
<bluesabre> Non-Language Pack Translation Deadline is Thursday
<bluesabre> will be doing uploads tomorrow with latest translations
<bluesabre> I did just find some strings that were not marked for translation in xfpanel-switch, so anybody that can pick up a few of those before Thursday... :)
<bluesabre> https://translations.launchpad.net/xfpanel-switch
<bluesabre> currently mostly translated include French, German, Lithuanian, Russian, Serbian, Swedish... in case any are around that want to complete those
<bluesabre> maybe pasi can finnish one
<bluesabre> night all
<bluesabre> also started documenting xfpanel-switch at https://wiki.smdavis.us/doku.php?id=xfpanel-switch-docs since I've added a link to that page from the app help button
<flocculant> knome: shouldn't  [xubuntu-doc] Create new content for the "FAQ" section (see whiteboard): TODO be an ongoing task on whiteboard and not a work item? 
<bluesabre> I can help with the FAQs :)
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
<flocculant> bluesabre: well so could I - perhaps it should be [xubuntu-team] and not a work item 
<flocculant> dkessel: I think that we should just postpone that stuff 
<dkessel> flocculant: ok , go ahead
<flocculant> I did 
<ochosi> hey lderan, how's it going?
<Unit193> (network issues, he's likely not really here.)
<ochosi> oh ok then
<knome> flocculant, the idea was/is to break that into actionable items, but i guess it could be marked as an ongoing task as well
<flocculant> knome: can understand that - but the actionable items went on the whiteboard :D 
<flocculant> not that it actually matters to me - nor much in general either - was just a comment :)
<knome> i don't mind either way really either
<knome> so i guess it'll stay as it is :P
<flocculant> :D
<flocculant> knome: so next time you come up with something like 'QA articles should be on the whiteboard surely' expect the comment in return once more :p
<knome> ahhah
<flocculant> can probably safely postpone lderan's work item 
<knome> likely so
<knome> bluesabre, if you didn't notice, i sneaked in a finnish translation for the panel switcher
#xubuntu-devel 2015-10-08
<jjfrv8> ochosi, I was looking over the Thunar docs in their new home and I noticed that where there are multiple screenshots in the same frame, they are stacked instead of side-by-side.
<jjfrv8> I guess that's not a problem, if you're okay with it. However, in one case where there are three images, the title says "Left, Middle, Right", which might be confusing.
<knome> could refer to "first", "second" and "third" image which would pretty much make sense with them stacked or floated side-by-side
<jjfrv8> Also, in that last section of the FAQ page, the one that was reinstated, there is a reference to a non-existent screenshot.
<knome> and hey jjfrv8 :)
<jjfrv8> knome, yep, that would work. But I was also wondering if it would be better to shrink the images so they would fit the narrower page.
<knome> if it affects their legibility (if appropriate), then i don't think so
<jjfrv8> There is that consideration. One way to get around that is to make them thumbnails which would expand when clicked. But I could see where that might not be ideal.
<knome> yeah, and i don't know if the target pages are ideal either
<knome> i mean, if it's a wiki page for an image, that's always a bit... meh
<knome> a link to the original image is a bit awkward too
<knome> and a lightbox (open in a popup) -style functionality is a tad too much for a wiki imo too
<knome> what i'm trying to say is i personally like images that are readable as is on documentation, unless there is a LOT of them
<knome> (nope there isn't too much of them in the thunar docs)
<jjfrv8> Yeah, I kind of figured it's best to leave them as is, but I think we do need to correct that one title over the triple screenie.
<jjfrv8> I wonder if I could get rights to edit the upstream stuff to save ochosi some work?
<knome> that sounds like a very sensible idea :)
<bluesabre> evening all
<bluesabre> knome, thanks!
<bluesabre> launchpad is being a bit moody today
<bluesabre> morning all
<slickymasterWork> hey bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey slickymasterWork 
<bluesabre> are we good for the final docs translation upload?
<slickymasterWork> there's just one thing I want to check with the russian translation, but besides that, we're ok
<bluesabre> cool
<flocculant> morning bluesabre slickymasterWork 
<bluesabre> morning flocculant 
<slickymasterWork> morning flocculant 
<flocculant> all gone quiet now - must be almost cycle end :p
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> trying to get those translation uploads done this morning
<slickymasterWork> bluesabre, I'll just be able to check what I want after lunch
<slickymasterWork> how much of a show stopper is that for you?
<bluesabre> slickymasterWork: just means I'll be uploading tonight, should still beat the freeze most likely
<bluesabre> working on uploading other packages currently
<slickymasterWork> I'll ping you as soon as I've done, during this afternoon
<bluesabre> np
<bluesabre> heading out now... will do xubuntu-docs, catfish, and menulibre when I get back
<bluesabre> uploaded gtk-theme-config and xfpanel-switch to ubuntu this morning
<flocculant> cya 
<flocculant> bluesabre: you'll have mail, but no panic on that :)
<flocculant> ochosi: you obviously have a copy too :)
<flocculant> can anyone confirm this - have some media playing, then start sound settings - mutes, then sound starts up again
<flocculant> never used to occur
<flocculant> secondly - odd power manager behaviour 
<flocculant> have a vbox vm running - try to restart host machine - get vbox asking to close vm - have to go back to host afterwards and restart
<flocculant> with the sound issue - that won't happen again till session restarted - so just once per session I see it
<flocculant> forget that last statement 
<flocculant> bug 1504175 if anyone can confirm that 
<ubottu> bug 1504175 in pavucontrol (Ubuntu) "pavucontrol mutes channel on start" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1504175
<slickymasterWork> bluesabre, all done
<slickymasterWork> you can go ahead with the final docs translations upload
<flocculant> :)
<slickymasterWork> :P
<krytarik> slickymasterWork: The most recent changes still need to be synced to the branch though.
<flocculant> oh I see - *now* it's suddenly ontopic ... 
<slickymasterWork> by the time bluesabre will do it, it should be synced
<slickymasterWork> flocculant :P
<flocculant> someone tell me what xfce4-power-manager they have - assuming not using ppa's
<flocculant> wondering now if this vbox thing I see is in that version 
<flocculant> purged ppa's - still seeing it 
<krytarik> bluesabre: "just means I'll be uploading tonight, should still beat the freeze most likely" - it's a deadline, not a freeze - we still have time until Final Freeze (15th Oct) - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NonLanguagePackTranslationDeadline
<flocculant> bluesabre: really really sorry ... bug 1504186
<ubottu> bug 1504186 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "virtualbox interferes with shutdown,restart or logout" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1504186
<flocculant> hate finding things this late :(
<slickymasterWork> Xubuntu Docs were added tohttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/NonLanguagePackTranslationDeadline
<krytarik> slickymasterWork: Wrong spot though. :P
<slickymasterWork> hmmm~
<krytarik> (Should be between Kubuntu Docs and Software Center.)
<slickymasterWork> damn you krytarik 
<krytarik> hahaha
<flocculant> krytarik: why not just fix it ? 
<krytarik> Good question. :P
<slickymasterWork> done
<krytarik> Thanks.
<slickymasterWork> :P
<jjfrv8> flocculant, on that pavucontrol thing, is it a quick hiccup in the sound on launch that you're hearing?
<flocculant> yep
<jjfrv8> okay, I get it with Parole but not VLC on my old desktop. Don't get it with either on the new one.
<jjfrv8> both wily and fully ppa'd.
<jjfrv8> While checking, I did just get hit with bug 1503945 :(
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 1503945 could not be found
<jjfrv8> bug 1503945
<jjfrv8> what am I doing wrong?
<flocculant> guess it's set to private
<jjfrv8> oh, right
<flocculant> can't see it :D
<jjfrv8> thunar crashed with SIGSEGV in g_dbus_connection_is_closed()
<flocculant> right - not in bug squad - can only set mine to public
<flocculant> ok - got that one locally too - not sent it yet 
<jjfrv8> back to work, bbl
<flocculant> cya - thanks for looking jjfrv8 :)
<jjfrv8> welcome :)
<ochosi> jjfrv8: hey! i fixed that thing you mentioned with left, middle, right. i guess the only way to ensure those pics stay in one line is to make them *one* pic. then i guess it's not really needed to write "left, middle right" cause the sequence will make it clear
<ochosi> jjfrv8: about direct access, yeah, generally speaking why not, but then again i think reviews are a good thing and they matter (even though they're exhausting and sometimes take a while - sorry again for that...)
<flocculant> evening ochosi :)
<ochosi> hey flocculant 
<Unit193> ochosi: Have you poked your friendly neighborhood Ubuntu CD Image Team member recently? :P
<ochosi> Unit193: :) no, sorry, wasn't around enough during the day. i had hoped knome would do the poking...
<ochosi> problem is i can#t be around during the day atm
<ochosi> lemme check who's actually in that team
<flocculant> employers - so job orientated ... 
<ochosi> yeah, IT's terrible
<flocculant> yep
<flocculant> Unit193: still trying to get that done this cycle :)
<Unit193> flocculant: No, but if we wait until next cycle then there's likely going to be a lot of turnover in those 3 branches, and I do not want to rebase again.
<flocculant> I can understand that 
<ochosi> Unit193: i think knome knows a few of the cdimage guys
<ochosi> either way, pinged cjwatson
<ochosi> what about the other two MRs?
<Unit193> You pinged the beast. :3
<ochosi> luckily i don't mind ;)
<Unit193> I've been talking to infinity, but he's likely the most overworked.
<flocculant> seems to be the one that everyone pings 
<Unit193> For everything.
<flocculant> yea
<ochosi> Unit193: right, so slangasek will take a look at the cdimage part
<flocculant> I'll be glad once this is on the tracker properly 
<Unit193> I'll be glad when I have nothing else to do with it. :P
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<flocculant> except ... https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-qa/+members#active
<Unit193> That's just testing, that's not so bad.  Speaking of which, I was going to re-install my Xubuntu VM (easier than fixing it at this point), how far off the testcase can you go before it no longer counts? :P
<flocculant> I'm going to start putting on the milestone release notes that it's not useful to use if a few days after it's released
<Unit193> Mmmm, but it's at least a fixed spot that worked.  Dalies may or may not.
<jjfrv8> ochosi, totally agree about the review process. I wasn't thinking of bypassing that, just for taking care of minor things that come up after the review.
<jjfrv8> Like a couple of typos I discovered :(
<ochosi> jjfrv8: lemme take a look whether i even have rights to give you any rights...
<flocculant> Unit193: few days after it's more likely that issues in the milestone are gone 
<flocculant> and it's not necessarily a fixed point that works - it might be a fixed point with known issues :p
<ochosi> jjfrv8: nope, i can't... so yeah, the only way we can fix those is by you pointing them out and me fixing them
<Unit193> flocculant: FWIW, I'd never use a beta, unless it was the daily. :P
<flocculant> :D
<flocculant> there is talk of flavours being able to start/stop builds 
<drc> flocculant: you missed his main point: can I install b2 and then just upgrade to 15.10 w/o re-installing.
<flocculant> drc: I didn't miss it - just ignored it :)
<drc> The b2 vs daily was secondary.
<drc> ah...good man :)
<flocculant> trying to stop people think that a milestone is something good weeks later :)
<flocculant> so - if that ^^ comes off - no need so much for milestones - we could have one a month if we wanted to 
<flocculant> though a global freeze is useful ofc
<flocculant> drc: I do actually try and read the whole of someone else's help request - unlike some - I'll ignore things if I think it appropriate :D
<flocculant> and I think the QA lead can appropriately tell someone not to bother :p
<flocculant> and I don't mean you by 'some' :)
<drc> Really?  You must have missed my stupidity the other day on #x :(
<drc> No excuse for it :(
<flocculant> I miss loads in there - you're safe :)
<Unit193> Yeeeeah, I get the frustration, but still.  Reminded me I should bail more plesently too..
<jjfrv8> ochosi, http://paste.ubuntu.com/12718398/
<jjfrv8> sorry about that  :(
<ochosi> hey no worries really ;)
<ochosi> i'll fix those shortly
<ochosi> done
<jjfrv8> thx
<knome> ochosi, hopes, hopes...
<flocculant> evening knome 
<knome> hello flocculant 
<ochosi> knome: i only passed along one of the MRs, feel free chime in ;)
<flocculant> knome: what say you to some sort of sprint amongst us to actually work out some sensible subjects for faq's ?
<flocculant> or perhaps a pad linked somewhere so when someone thinks - oooh what about that - they could just list it 
<flocculant> ochosi: ty - replied :)
<knome> flocculant, there was some drafting for it in the whiteboard for that blueprint
<knome> flocculant, but sure
<knome> flocculant, i think it should mostly be what people actually ask though, so digging out logs might come useful
<flocculant> so perhaps a pad might be useful - people can add when something comes up 
<knome> sure, wfm
<flocculant> just thinking is all :)
<knome> yup
<flocculant> painful and/or dangerous ... 
<knome> i'm a bit out of focus atm...
<flocculant> :)
<knome> but it's ok, feel free to talk to me and i'll try to reply sensibly :P
<ochosi> knome: in case you wanna support one xubuntu-core MR to cdimage, feel free to head over to #u-devel and continue the conversation with slangasek ;)
<ochosi> Unit193 conveniently chickened out of it :)
<knome> lol
<ochosi> gotta head to bed now
<ochosi> night everyone!
<knome> nighty
<flocculant> night ochosi :)
<slickymaster> have a good one ochosi 
<ochosi> ty, tty'all laters
<bluesabre> evening all
<bluesabre> nighty ochosi
<ochosi> thanks bluesabre (and sorry for pinging you on the xfce dev ml ;))
<bluesabre> ochosi: thanks for letting me know I got pinged :D
<bluesabre> krytarik: semantics :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: evening :)
<flocculant> and sorry for coming across bugs :(
<bluesabre> flocculant: darn you :p
<flocculant> sowwy ... 
<flocculant> :p
<bluesabre> flocculant: re https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-power-manager/+bug/1504186, is that saying a vm is running as a guest when you try to shutdown the host?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1504186 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "virtualbox interferes with shutdown,restart or logout" [Undecided,New]
<flocculant> bluesabre: yea - I'll make it more obvious
<bluesabre> ok, wanted to confirm that :)
<flocculant> look now 
<bluesabre> thanks
<bluesabre> I'll take a look at that either tonight or tomorrow
<flocculant> bluesabre: bit off an odd one - if you really need me to install ubuntu to hardware to check it's not us I will - but you'll owe me one :D
<bluesabre> ?
<knome> krytarik, basically, two parts:
<knome> 1) he doesn't agree with tho product names
<knome> and i agree with that
<bluesabre> agree with the product names, or agree with disagreeing?
<knome> 2) he said that he'd rather have us create two ISOs within the same product, and pointed out that "desktop" and "dvd" subproduct names are the current convention
<flocculant> bluesabre: if you want me to install Ubuntu - and vbox and run a vm and see if the same happens I will 
<knome> bluesabre, agree that we should only have one product name
<bluesabre> flocculant: I'll let you know after I get a chance to kick it myself :)
<flocculant> ok :)
<knome> to really lay it out:
<flocculant> bluesabre: personally the pavucontrol one annoys me much more :D
<bluesabre> flocculant: and that one I can't reproduce so far
<flocculant> k
<knome> instead of having both 1) http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/* and 2) http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-core/*, just have 1)
<knome> and in build dirs, like http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/, simply have desktop and core ISOs listed
<knome> (in both arches)
<knome> and the part about desktop/dvd was that that naming scheme is the convention so far
<knome> nothing else
<knome> krytarik, did that clear it out?
<krytarik> knome: It makes it more clear to what he's referring to there at least, yes.
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> once the 2 iso's are created - does that cause us more work moving forward? 
<flocculant> eg if we did that - pain now, but none later? 
<knome> more work in what sense?
<flocculant> and we're the 1st flavour to come up with this idea? 
<flocculant> doing what has to be done knome 
<knome> no, it's been done before
<knome> let me dig up an example..
<flocculant> my issue here is simple
<knome> well the answer is simple too
<flocculant> I don't understand the detail so don't know if a simple idea = more work for us 
<knome> no, no more work than splitting it into two different products either
<knome> flocculant, in QA tracker terms, instead of having xubuntu and xubuntu core products, just have xubuntu product and different testsuites for desktop and core
<knome> flocculant, does that clear it out?
<knome> eg. same amount of maintaining really
<knome> just two different ways to achieve it
<flocculant> mmk
<bluesabre> makes sense to me, core is just a subset after all
<knome> yep
<flocculant> given my position - I'm cool with whatever we do 
<knome> i can't find an example now
<knome> but i figure Unit193 did it like this because there are things like kubuntu-active
<flocculant> but I'll always prefer to +1 our easy way 
<knome> which is likely much more different to kubuntu than core to xubuntu is
<flocculant> could we not try and have a meeting quickish to hash it out 
<bluesabre> and krytarik, thanks for pointing it out, will upload -docs once we get the next sync (should be in 8 hours)
<knome> actually i think here's an exmaple:
<knome> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/
<flocculant> if we do - we need to make sure Unit193 and those needing to do stuff can be there
<knome> lubuntu has daily (which is basically alt), daily-live (which is desktop) and a third one
<knome> at least this is what i think we're looking at
<knome> so not quite what i explained before
<knome> but very close.
<bluesabre> I'll still do catfish and menulibre tonight, they should be in their final release state
<knome> the main point is that all of this is inside lubuntu
<knome> not lubuntu and lubuntu-alt and whatever
<flocculant> knome: no
<knome> same for xubuntu and our core - we actually even want it to be all under xubuntu :)
<knome> no?
<knome> :)
<flocculant> mmm 
<flocculant> no - yes 
<flocculant> :D
<knome> so that part makes totally sense...
<knome> the naming part is just naming
<knome> :)
<flocculant> well they do 32/64 and ppc 
<flocculant> but ppc constantly dies and they rarely release at milestone it seems
<flocculant> but alt and live
<flocculant> we're not looking at that are we 
<knome> yes
<knome> but not alt and live
<flocculant> we're looking at core/main in 2 arch's
<knome> but core and desktop
<knome> but in meta, the same thing
<knome> i mean in the meta sense
<flocculant> effectively 2 iso's (ignoring arch)
<knome> so... yes we are and no we aren't ;)
<knome> apparently the ISOs just appear this way now
<knome> i rmeember seeing them being in the same place before
<knome> but maybe that changed at some point
<knome> but as i said to slangasek... how and with what name/description we link to ISOs, wherever they reside is a documentation/marketing issue
<knome> knome: I'd like to see a proposed patch that does this as two images under the xubuntu product, with whatever code changes you're looking for to support different names that "desktop" and "dvd" if that's the way you're going
<knome> ^ quote from slangasek
<knome> the most important line there.
<flocculant> mmm 
<flocculant> or this one 
<flocculant> [21:40] <slangasek> knome: these names are part of the cdimage code, and changing them to something else would require making the code more complicated
<knome> well
<knome> let's keep on pasting
<flocculant> well - paygrades and stuff :)
<knome> slangasek: which is not to say I'd veto it
<flocculant> yea
<knome> so... yeah
<flocculant> I guess what I'm concerned about is that we argue a case, they're not actually that concerned, but have to make a point - the consequence being we don't get this in till late cycle 
<flocculant> and the follow on - good lord from testing point
<knome> putting them under the same product should be relatively easy
<knome> naming scheme is another thing, but we can likely even stick with desktop/dvd until we get a serious MP done
<flocculant> I'm not concerned about the tracker at all 
<knome> no
<knome> same product also applies to this other thing
<knome> i was just making an analogy before
<flocculant> if that's what you mean 
<flocculant> ok :)
<knome> it's really close to how we organize stuff in the qa trackers
<knome> so i thought it made it clearer for you
<flocculant> yep
<flocculant> yea it does :)
<knome> i'm sure i have just made it worse now ;)
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<flocculant> !team | just so you're aware - we will be bringing the package tracker for the LTS cycle
<ubottu> just so you're aware - we will be bringing the package tracker for the LTS cycle: bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, lderan, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster, Unit193
<flocculant> and that impinges on how I feel about core landing late in XX :)
<bluesabre> I'd like to get things lined up so that we can have core builds when the x archive opens up
<bluesabre> (on cdimage, that is)
<flocculant> yep
<bluesabre> also, we should get a meeting lined up for next week
<bluesabre> to cover last minute items and figure out where we are for x
<flocculant> bluesabre: I'd agree 
<flocculant> could we try and do a weekend one - allow for as many team as possible perhaps
<flocculant> or - even run a couple - one early and one late 
<bluesabre> if its this weekend, I can only do very early saturday or mostly anytime sunday
<bluesabre> oh
<bluesabre> thats not a bad idea
<flocculant> just means that early needs to make sure logs are up I guess 
<flocculant> if we did it late in the week I could likely be about for both 
<bluesabre> final freeze is 1 week from today
<flocculant> bluesabre: I'll be starting iso calls early next week pre RC
<bluesabre> flocculant: cool
<flocculant> so - if we aimed for 15th - still in b4 release and mid RC 
<bluesabre> I'll be reviewing bugs sunday/early next week as I have time
<flocculant> and Fridays I can def be about for early and late
<flocculant> though that late - we'd not get a stop on much other than the world stopping I guess 
<bluesabre> if we could get the world to stop a few hours tonight so I could get some extra zzzs, that'd be lovely
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok - all done - set one in stone, can move the 2nd about to suit 
<flocculant> bluesabre: well - you could just say good night :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: great!
<bluesabre> flocculant: nah, gotta do one more upload, then do the dishes I've neglected so far this week
<flocculant> oh 
<flocculant> I has 2 dishwashers 
<flocculant> one electric - one 15 :p
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> so, one that works all the time, and one that works-ish sometimes?
<flocculant> yea the fuse keeps going ... 
<flocculant> :p
<bluesabre> :)
<flocculant> I put some things on agenda - if you want to fiddle about from your pov
<flocculant> cos they're a bit QA ish ... ;)
<bluesabre> k
<flocculant> well - I did put your thing first :)
<bluesabre> appreciated
<bluesabre> early morning is always easier for me
<flocculant> ha ha 
<flocculant> I meant "Last minute Wily issues for discussion "
<flocculant> not the time - happy to make you lead the first one :D
 * flocculant suspects bluesabre didn't think about the chair ... 
<bluesabre> didn't think about that, but that's reasonable I'd say
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> I'll take the 2nd
<flocculant> I suppose ... 
<flocculant> :p
<bluesabre> alrighty, that should hopefully be the last catfish, gtk-theme-config, menulibre, and xfpanel-switch uploads this cycle
<bluesabre> go ahead and find bugs to prove me wrong
<flocculant> oops
<flocculant> did you mean that? 
<bluesabre> maybe
<bluesabre> maybe not
<bluesabre> if they're annoying bugs, don't expect a quick turnaround :)
<bluesabre> still need to figure out gmb
<bluesabre> :\
<flocculant> ha ha ha ha 
<flocculant> the pavuc one pisses me off - surprised you don't see it 
<flocculant> maybe hardware *whrug* 
<flocculant> or shrug 
<bluesabre> probably just need to update, restart, then find it myself and be upset
<flocculant> ha ha 
<flocculant> for a while I thought it was main channel set to >100% 
<flocculant> but that was just luck 
<flocculant> also sometimes you don't see it if you had pavuc open within the last *amount of time* 
<bluesabre> k
 * bluesabre adds music to startup applications
<flocculant> it's pretty obvious if you see it 
<flocculant> though I guess if you were young and weren't winding it up to 11 - then maybe you'd not hear it 
<knome> :D
<flocculant> depending on what you listen to perhaps 
<flocculant> knome: ha ha - you're a bad man :D
<bluesabre> if I was my younger self, it'd be up to 20
<knome> me? noooo
<flocculant> bluesabre: well - all the better :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: I always see it when session is new - play music - start pavuc - mute momentarily 
<flocculant> it's not seconds - microseconds - but hearable 
<bluesabre> alrighty
<flocculant> almost like an old fashioned relay warming up and switching - not right though ;)
<flocculant> and is definitely some regression - not seeing it in trusty
<flocculant> will check vivid tomorrow
<bluesabre> cool
<flocculant> I'll check laptop too - try and tie down hardware, though jjfrv8 is seeing it too
<flocculant> bit pointless me checking in vm - same souncard
<flocculant> basically I will add as much hw info as I can 
#xubuntu-devel 2015-10-09
<bluesabre> flocculant: thanks
<flocculant> np 
<flocculant> jjfrv8 left his hw info on there 
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok did some more testing - pavucontrol issue not seeing that on laptop, nor desktop in previous releases. So only see that in wily on this machine.
<flocculant> the vbox power thing - see that in 15.04 but not Ubuntu unfortunately 
<bluesabre> morning all
<bluesabre> slickymaster, Unit193, knome: is this an issue? 
<bluesabre> warning: failed to load external entity "C/translator-credits.xml"
<bluesabre> warning: failed to load external entity "C/translators.xml"
<flocculant> morning bluesabre 
<bluesabre> morning flocculant 
<bluesabre> so pavucontrol is not a consistent issue... seemingly hardware specific
<bluesabre> (on wily)
<flocculant> looking that way 
<flocculant> well 
<flocculant> I don't see it with the same hardware on previous releases
<bluesabre> right
<bluesabre> thats why I added the (on wily)
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<flocculant> yep - that sums it up then :)
<bluesabre> things like that are a pain to test... but if we can get it to show on ubuntu, we can hand it off to them or blame the kernel :D
<flocculant> yea that was my hope :D
<flocculant> it's certainly going to end up with a xubuntu-exp XX tag on it :p
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> I'd say it's probably one of those we can hope to see other people finding - might help to narrow it down a bit 
<flocculant> well it didn't miraculously disappear with a new kernel :p
<slickymasterWork> no bluesabre, that's not an issue
<slickymasterWork> that was a sort of a workaround knome came up with
<bluesabre> slickymasterWork: good to head, will upload in a few minutes
<bluesabre> s/head/hear/
<SwissBot> bluesabre meant: "slickymasterWork: good to hear, will upload in a few minutes"
<slickymasterWork> thanks bluesabre 
<slickymasterWork> and I did get that sutpid SwissBot 
<slickymasterWork> s/sutpid/stupid 
<bluesabre> knome, slickymasterWork: if you guys want to merge the updated changelog back in, https://code.launchpad.net/~bluesabre/xubuntu-docs/15.10.1/+merge/273970
<slickymasterWork> bluesabre, unable to do it here (behind a proxy) but I'll do it later on, at home
<knome> bluesabre, slickymaster: not really even a workaround, that's how it's documented
<knome> bluesabre, we have an empty fallback so it's just a warning; if we didn't have the fallback, it would be an error and the compiling would stop at that
<flocculant> thunar appears to be causing some problems of late 
<flocculant> crashing when copying, changing folder path all a bit random 
<drc> yup...been there couldn't do that 'cause it crashed.
<flocculant> slow to see changes in folders too 
<drc> Anyone else have troubles burning a Daily USB today? Tried 5 times (with 3 different ISO images and all md5sums checked out) today with DD...checked media on usb boot and always came up with 1 error.  In the middle I tried a LM iso and it worked fine.  Finally tried unetboot and voila...all was well.
<flocculant> don't actually burn daily - tend to vm them 
<drc> Gee...it must be nice to have modern hardware :)
<flocculant> :D
<Unit193> As close to hardware as they get is grml-rescueboot.
<ochosi> knome, Unit193: so what was the outcome of the discussion regarding -core? (in a nutshell)
<knome> ochosi, slangasek would rather see us do two ISOs under the same product
<ochosi> right, that's what he suggested before i took off
<knome> ochosi, the convention with the naming is currently to have "desktop" and "dvd" named versions
<ochosi> i don't see any downsides to that, apart from the naming
<ochosi> which is highly misleading in our case
<knome> ochosi, but he said we can propose a different naming scheme, as long as we did the changes to the script
<knome> ochosi, and that he wouldn't veto it, so was generally not negative about us wanting something else
<knome> and that's pretty much the whole thing
<knome> it makes sense to me to put them under the same product
<ochosi> knome: yeah, does
<ochosi> Unit193: any thoughts on this from your side?
<Unit193> ochosi: https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/ubuntu-cdimage/xubuntu-core/+merge/268167
<ochosi> Unit193: looks good
<ochosi> krytarik: care to ask slangasek for another review?
<krytarik> ochosi: Some yet another guy popping up all of sudden? I'd rather any of you do. :D
<ochosi> since i'm not the author of the MR i can't do anything there
<Unit193> FWIW, ochosi and knome have done the most talking to him.
<ochosi> so actually maybe only Unit193 can do that
<knome> sigh
<knome> just join #ubuntu-devel and poke him.
<knome> krytarik, please even join so we can direct questions at you if needed
<krytarik> Alright.
<knome> thanks
<Unit193> Thanks, knome.
<knome> np
<Unit193> Sadly, this time I'm not literally walking out the door, so no good excuse. :P
<krytarik> But I have - making dinner. :D
<bluesabre> evening all
<Unit193> Howdy.
<bluesabre> hi Unit193 
<knome> heya seany
<bluesabre> hey gnome
<knome> :Ã
#xubuntu-devel 2015-10-10
<slickymaster> bluesabre, it's merged and pushed up to revision 453
<slickymaster> thanks
<dkessel> flocculant: i cannot make it to the first team meeting, maybe i can be there for the second meeting time. but i also cannot promise that
<flocculant> dkessel: yup - no problem :)
#xubuntu-devel 2015-10-11
<Unit193> bluesabre: https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/collab-maint/lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings.git/commit/?id=472ea3cbcf698346bebd9a2c71f17b5921fe956d
<Unit193> (IN case you didn't see https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=790104)
<ubottu> Debian bug 790104 in sponsorship-requests "RFS: lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings/1.2.0-1 [ITP] -- Settings Editor for LightDM Gtk+ Greeter" [Wishlist,Open]
<knome> Unit193, does SwissBot still do the s/this/that/ output?
<Unit193> Noooo.
<knome> Unit193, ta
<Unit193> ...Yes.
<knome> :D
<knome> Unit193 is silly.
<knome> s/silly/nice/
<SwissBot> knome meant: "Unit193 is nice."
<knome> nope.
<knome> can we turn that off?
<flocculant> s/off/on
<flocculant> :p
<knome> sigh
<knome> :)
<flocculant> :)
<Unit193> a
<Unit193> s/a/b/
<SwissBot> Unit193 meant: "b"
<Unit193> Hrm.
<knome> yep.
<Unit193> a
<Unit193> s/a/b/
<SwissBot> Unit193 meant: "b"
<knome> great!
<knome> now it works!
<knome> ;)
 * knome slaps SwissBot 
<Unit193> a
<Unit193> s/a/b/
<SwissBot> Unit193 meant: "b"
<Unit193> Well it's not supposed to do that now, but oh well.
<knome> sigh
<knome> fix the code then!
<Unit193> It's supposed to blacklist this channel, but it doesn't exactly support blacklisting.
<knome> great.
<knome> flocculant, from #xfce-dev: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TBzP0baOBM
<flocculant> good lord
<flocculant> nope - not a chance 
<knome> :D
<knome> watch it
<Unit193> a
<Unit193> s/a/b/
<SwissBot> Unit193 meant: "b"
<flocculant> SwissBot: I think we got what he meant 
<flocculant> ochosi bluesabre - not of any great importance (and would propose fix if I knew where and how) bug 1504958
<ubottu> bug 1504958 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "Minor wording issue" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1504958
<flocculant> nor have I upstreamed it as yet - tell me if you want me to do that 
<drc> So, something good came out of all that :)
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> no idea how to grab the xfce source 
<flocculant> yes I do ... 
<flocculant> I think :p
<knome> lol
<knome> don't think, do! 
<flocculant> I did 
<knome> :)
<flocculant> I also found the text string :)
<flocculant> what I do next I've no idea :D
<knome> hahah
<flocculant> especially given I've not even done the buczilla one yet :p
<flocculant> really either need to learn to touch type properly or get a kbd that's not worn out in places ... 
<knome> hahah
<flocculant> meh - trying to compile it and it says I've no glib2
<knome> :P
<flocculant> mmm 
<flocculant> well that's not playing nicely with me :(
<flocculant> of course I don't actually know if me changing something then configuring it would even work :D
<flocculant> make etc
<knome> developers will hate me for this, but if you plan to change a string only, then it should be relatively safe to not even test build...
<flocculant> yea - but practice :)
<knome> sure
<flocculant> fighting gtk now :p
<knome> building xfce isn't the easiest one
<knome> yep
<flocculant> sigh - now can't find gtk3 dev package I assume
<knome> ;)
<flocculant> \o/ 
<flocculant> got to the end of those dependencies :D
<knome> huzzah
<flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/sO2RU9m.png 
<flocculant> wow - I did it :D
<knome> ;)
<flocculant> whether anyone is interested is of course a different question :p
<flocculant> and how to get that from local to not ofc
<Unit193> I feel like now would be a bad time to remind you of  apt-get build-dep $pkg  then.
<flocculant> not really
<flocculant> now would be a good time to remind me - though probably 4 weeks would be better when I forget and this install is xx ... :p
<Unit193> foo bar baz
<Unit193> s/baz/biz/
<flocculant> does that count as \o/ then :p
<Unit193> Apathy from me.
<flocculant> :)
<Unit193> Worst case, I drop SwissBot back into #xubuntu-verbose and merge that channel into this one in Irssi. :P
<knome> Unit193, the notifications are okay, the "i'll correct you" stuff not so much
<knome> ...or games that are verbose on the channel :P
<knome> botsnack
<knome> Unit193, nope.
<knome> :P
<Unit193> SwissBot: botsnack
<SwissBot> Unit193: thanks :)
<knome> Unit193, related;
<knome> Unit193, can some of the -core related work items be closed now?
<Unit193> As far as I'm concerned, months ago.
<knome> why aren't they? :P
<Unit193> Because they're not merged in, just proposed.
<knome> but the changes are done
<Unit193> Sure, just not effectivly.
<knome> so maybe close the current ones and add one for "make sure patches are merged"
<knome> i know that we're in the middle of the process, but so does everybody else in the team
<knome> however, if you are not in the team, the situation looks like it's not being proposed
<knome> or can look like
<Unit193> Don't really care one way or another, whatever works and is least messing around.
<knome> the whole idea in the tracker is that we... yes, you guessed it, track the progress
<Unit193> Progress: Not moving. :P
<knome> progress is: something is done, we're waiting for feedback from others
<knome> really, you said it yourself:
<knome> 20:47  Unit193: As far as I'm concerned, months ago.
<knome> then close them
<knome> if you feel there needs to be one item open, then create new that describes the situation better than the original ones
<Unit193> As I said, I don't really care, whatever works best and is least busy work.  And, already did that, figured you'd see the mail.
<knome> :P
<knome> re: tracking i think clarity and accuracy is the most important thing
<knome> channging items isn't busy work, so
<knome> -n
<knome> but thanks
<Unit193> Proposed by Unit 193 (unit193) on 2015-08-12  Oh, I wasn't overstating then...
<knome> sigh, that's not even a long time :)
<knome> i was waiting a three-line change on a CSS file for the planet over 6 months
<Unit193> No, but does actually fit "months"
<knome> and the other side to the thing is that keeping poking people helps
<knome> and talking with them about it
<knome> we waited for two months and nobody looked, now we actually poked them and they gave feedback that let us progress
<knome> i'm not saying that we should instapoke people, but at some point, just stop waiting and do it
<krytarik> knome: Unit193 poked infinity three times during that time though.
<knome> what was the response to that?
<krytarik> "I'll look."
<knome> and how long did we wait after that reply before asking again?
<knome> Unit193, one more thing: feel free to assign the work item for ubuntu-debian-cd (or whatever team is)
<knome> that's also valuable information
<Unit193> Talked to him at least twice, and simply poked once.  Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't happen, more so since you aren't even in that channel.
<knome> sure
<knome> maybe we should just poke more
<knome> i don't know
<Unit193> Also, clearly shouldn't have poked slangasek. >_>
<Unit193> :P
<knome> because?
<knome> he totally gave good feedback.
<knome> i would be scared if everything we propose would be merged as is
<knome> imo, putting the two ISOs under the same product is a good idea
<knome> getting that kind of feedback also feels to me that they care
<knome> you don't get that every time.
<knome> that feeling, that is
<knome> Unit193, and sorry if something i said offended you; it was a bit unfair to say that we didn't do poking before because obviously i don't know what happens on "every" channel
<knome> if poking doesn't seem to give any results in the future, let's try to take action before to try to fix that situation
<knome> s/before/earlier/
<flocculant> looks like gvfs fix coming associated with the thunar issues of late
<ochosi> flocculant: oh nice! is that in one of the linked reports?
<knome> hullo ochosi 
<ochosi> hey knome 
<flocculant> ochosi: the thunar/gvfs thing? 
<ochosi> yeah
<flocculant> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=756153
<ubottu> Gnome bug 756153 in general "Clicking a file-picker dialog in GTK3-enabled Firefox or Epiphany triggers crash and/or GLib-GIO-CRITICAL **: g_dbus_connection_is_closed: assertion 'G_IS_DBUS_CONNECTION (connection)' failed" [Normal,New]
<flocculant> and bug 1504542 
<ubottu> bug 1504542 in gvfs (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/thunar:11:g_dbus_connection_is_closed:_g_dbus_connection_get_sync:create_proxy_for_file2:create_proxy_for_file:g_daemon_file_query_info" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1504542
<flocculant> I just noticed - cos I check out proposed to see what's coming 
<flocculant> and hi ochosi :)
<flocculant> hopefully it will also fix what I've been seeing the last few days 
<ochosi> that'd be nice
<flocculant> it would - drove me nuts the other day :p
<flocculant> I was seeing SIGSEGV in g_dbus_connection_is_closed()
<flocculant> all started showing up at the same time though
#xubuntu-devel 2016-10-10
<flocculant> morning
<Unit193> Howdy.
<flocculant> good weekend I trust
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: [yakkety] r623 Launchpad automatic translations update. (by Launchpad Translations on behalf of ubuntu-core-doc)
<akxwi-dave> flocculant: 
<akxwi-dave> with regards to the suspend issue.. cannot reproduce it with either a lenovo laptop or a toshiba one..
<akxwi-dave> bug 1631715 that is
<ubottu> bug 1631715 in light-locker (Ubuntu) "Password required twice returning from suspend" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1631715
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: cheers 
<flocculant> wonder what's causing that then 
<akxwi-dave> what hardware did youuse?
<flocculant> something built from bits
<flocculant> Gigabyte model: H81M-DS2V / Intel Core i5-4460 
<flocculant> dug a bit more now on that
<flocculant> seem to have something to blame, one more check before I \o/
<flocculant> \o/
<flocculant> so with a GeForce 210 running nouveau I can reproduce this as often as I need - change to NVIDIA 340.96 and it takes a while longer to get to lock screen and desktop after unlocking - but only 1 password required
<flocculant> bluesabre ochosi ^^ my suspend issue appears to be hardware specific :p
<flocculant> reporting against nouveau instead
<bluesabre> flocculant, been afk for a while
<bluesabre> flocculant, sounds like it could be a race condition of sorts, and nouveau is too fast
<bluesabre> it might also affect intel graphics, I believe those also switch quickly
#xubuntu-devel 2016-10-11
<phenom> Does anyone have any idea why "Software Updater" does NOT show updates that both synaptic and sudo apt-get update display? I've never noticed this behavior.
<flocculant> bluesabre: race condition sounds fair :p
<flocculant> I'll see if I can reproduce it on the laptop
<flocculant> certainly if I wait a few seconds when I get the lock dialogue up before passwording it only asks once
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: [yakkety] r624 Launchpad automatic translations update. (by Launchpad Translations on behalf of ubuntu-core-doc)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 16.10 - i386 - i386 built.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 16.10 - amd64 - amd64 built.
<flocculant> ochosi: is there an easy way for me to fiddle about with the lock-delay setting?
<flocculant> started release announcement https://xubuntu.org/?p=4132&preview=true
<flocculant> iirc bluesabre wanted something about contribution on there - not done that 
<flocculant> Unit193: moving back to 'normal' thunar - this one from debian is worse
<Unit193> flocculant: More crashy then?  Huh, but good to know.
<flocculant> yup
<flocculant> crashed selecting a few items
<flocculant> crashed as root thunar moving a few things
<flocculant> just crashy 
<Unit193> Heh, and he just now committed a change to disable it due to Debian #840254.
<ubottu> Debian bug 840254 in thunar "thunar: freeze when mounting USB drive" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/840254
<flocculant> well I wasn't seeing that problem
<Unit193> Had hoped it'd be better than ours, but clearly not...
<flocculant> I could mount a usb3 drive - just have the remount on eject issue 
<flocculant> which the lp bug linked a suse thing - with a comment about a kernel commit that fixes it seemingly > https://bugzilla.suse.com/show_bug.cgi?id=922634
<ubottu> bugzilla.suse.com bug 922634 in Kernel "USB 3.0 Safely Remove Drive attach the drive again" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
 * flocculant hopes that we actually do something about 'file manager' next cycle
<flocculant> anyway - I'm back tomorrow :)
<Unit193> I have a stronger hope they fix it before we have to...
<flocculant> hope the rebuild will have happened by then
<flocculant> well yea - I'd rather not change, but *shrug* 
<flocculant> and even if it gets sorted out *nowish* - what happens next time it all goes wrong>
#xubuntu-devel 2016-10-12
<bluesabre> flocculant, initial release notes look good
<flocculant> seems completely pointless sending mails asking people to test
<flocculant> those that do - do it anyway
<flocculant> bluesabre: ack - didn't really know quite what you wanted said, so I left it for you :p
<bluesabre> flocculant, neither do I :D
<flocculant> ha ha 
<flocculant> bluesabre: bit concerned about the lack of results on the tracker - not many people - as long as you're happy with it - then will mark ready when the time comes
<akxwi-dave> doing more now..
<akxwi-dave> done the basics and so far all ok - doing some more in depth now
<akxwi-dave> everything running ok on both so far.. going thru alot of teh LTS testcases on these
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: neither comment was aimed at you :p
<akxwi-dave> lol I know that.. :-) just playing with the comments, while doing teh testing..  :-)
<flocculant> :)
 * flocculant notes mail to mailing list and doesn't reply
<akxwi-dave> snap...
 * flocculant should really sort out the resize testcase 
<flocculant> this "Allow the machine to reboot and as it reboots after the post screen grub with a menu to select the installs appear"
<flocculant> is awesome :p
 * flocculant blames wxl for that :D
<flocculant> off doing hardware upgrade tests and installs - back on Saturday 
<nairwolf> hi, anything particular to watch with this last build ? 
<nairwolf> The last build looked fine for me
<nairwolf> what motivated the last build ? 
<flocculant> things elsewhere updating
<flocculant> global rebuilds
<nairwolf> ok ;)
<flocculant> there'll be another before release ...
<flocculant> nairwolf: all we'll really need now would be smoketesting - just making sure iso installs
<nairwolf> ok, thank you flocculant ;)
<nairwolf> hi, is it okay to not have a picture for the style "Raleigh" ?
<nairwolf> look this screenshot : https://i.imgur.com/7rUiRsR.png
#xubuntu-devel 2016-10-13
<bluesabre> evening all
<Unit193> Hello, bluesabre.
<bluesabre> flocculant, should be fine, also going to hit all of the tests tonight
<bluesabre> hey Unit193 :)
<bluesabre> Unit193, how's it going?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Watching a bit of something before heading out to a social thing tonight. :3  (IE, nothing for Xubuntu. :P )
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> good for you, its nice to be social once in a while ;)
<Unit193> Oh?  Huh, news to me.
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> How 'bout you, bluesabre?
<bluesabre> Pretty good, got home a bit later than desired but going to try to be productive the rest of the night
<bluesabre> flocculant, importantish package updates, somewhat relevant bugs between xenial and yakkety (it's been a slow cycle), http://paste.ubuntu.com/23315791/
<krytarik> bluesabre: LP #1529689 was fixed in Xenial already too though: http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/i/inxi/inxi_2.2.35-0ubuntu1/changelog
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1529689 in inxi (Ubuntu) "inxi -m outputs home directory content instead of system info" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1529689
<bluesabre> darn
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: thanks
<flocculant> did some hardware and vm this morning on 32bit - ready to mark them
<flocculant> knome: x.org announcement mostly done now
<flocculant> marked them ready now
<ochosi> thanks flocculant!
<bluesabre> hey everyone
<flocculant> everyone left about 3 months ago
<flocculant> the rest of us are still here :)
<bluesabre> darn it
<bluesabre> :p
<flocculant> how's Thursday treating you?
<bluesabre> pretty good
<bluesabre> are we officially released now?
<flocculant> added bugs to release note - added inxi 
<flocculant> nah
<flocculant> not released yet 
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> k
<bluesabre> need anything from me?
<flocculant> nope - all good as far as I know
<flocculant> we can edit the announcement later when you know what you want to say :D
<bluesabre> couldn't really think of what to say, but your bit at the end seemed good
<flocculant> I wrote something?
<bluesabre> thought so :D
<flocculant> oh 
<flocculant> I didn't write that ... I  copied it from whatever knome wrote last time :p
<bluesabre> "Thanks to all who have contributed to Xubuntu, not least those who test for us when called upon, and generally anyone can do that for us all. We will name you all in time â you deserve one last mention. Thank you on behalf of all installing Xubuntu â you all rock!" seemed like something
<bluesabre> aha
<flocculant> *I* wrote the gtk3 bit at the beginning :p
 * bluesabre claps
<flocculant> tried to make it sound like you did something in the last 6 months :D
<bluesabre> I had to grab at straws for the release announcement on my site as well
<bluesabre> "oh, I did this, and Simon wrote about that"
<flocculant> we'll need to sort the get xubuntu page out before too long - if no-one else gets to it, I'll make something that works 
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> I won't do any editing right now, but I can follow up tonight as needed
<flocculant> bank sent me a txt - which I nearly spam banned - apparently fraud ...
<flocculant> yup - ok - if you can prettify - we needs peoples on the announcement that'll be cool
<flocculant> I think website team does stuffs too
<bluesabre> yeah
 * bluesabre reminds knome that its release day
 * flocculant doesn't know if he can change getxubuntu page and it saves but doesn't publish :D
<flocculant> knome: I hates the openid thing with our website - keep getting issues with it :|
<flocculant> blames pleia2 for a change :)
<bluesabre> alrighty, out for now, bbl
<bluesabre> have fun with the *official* release
<flocculant> cya later - might still be around when you are 
<flocculant> and we're published now
 * flocculant looks at getxubuntu and wanders off again
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: good luck then :D
<nairwolf> hi ;)
<nairwolf> if there is anything I can help
<nairwolf> tell me
<flocculant> nairwolf: stuff left to do now is for specific xubuntu teams - other than support which you can do in #xubuntu :)
<nairwolf> ok ;)
<nairwolf> I'm currently writing some notes for a collaborative french website linuxfr.org
<nairwolf> the final version will be the same iso than 20161012.2 ? 
<flocculant> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/16.10/release/
<nairwolf> youpi !!!
<nairwolf> The Release Notes for 16.10 will be the same as this page ? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/YakketyYak/FinalRelease/Xubuntu 
<flocculant> http://xubuntu.org/news/xubuntu-16-10-release/
<nairwolf> Thank you flocculant ;)
<flocculant> knome: temporarily added yak as a seperate section below the lts stuff - at least it's now listed there for people
<knome> ta, i'll try to get the website in order today..
<flocculant> knome: ok - just wanted to get a download somewhere on x.org :)
<knome> yup
<flocculant> docs obviously needs updating 
<knome> yep
<knome> i'll look at that too
<flocculant> yea - on the process I remember 
<knome> i've been sick all week - enterovirus - which is why i haven't done much...
<flocculant> basically - just letting you (and everyone else) where we were :)
<flocculant> oh nasty :~(
<knome> it's annoying, but i'm not feeling very sick any more
<flocculant> :)
<knome> ok, bbl
<flocculant> cya tomorrow or something 
<nairwolf> what does that mean this sentence ? 
<nairwolf> however much has been done towards supplying Xubuntu with Xfce packages built with GTK3, including the porting of many plugins and Xfce Terminal to GTK3. Those GTK3 ports can, if one wishes to test them, be installed from one of the teamâs development PPAs
<nairwolf> Does that mean Xfce Terminal doesn't use GTK3 yet, at 16.10 ?
<flocculant> people have been working on gtk3 ports - they are available at the ppa
<nairwolf> ok
<nairwolf> but they aren't available directly on the OS. 
<nairwolf> Why ? (it's just to know). Is it still considered unstable ? 
<flocculant> not sure - not necessariyl about stability - just that it's something people are working on
<flocculant> time to rest now 
<knome> nighty flocculant 
<flocculant> not bed resting - just not worrying about 16.10 anymore :)
<knome> heh
<knome> just updating the website and docs
<flocculant> oh cool - thanks :)
<knome> np
<knome> the download page is up already
<knome> now building docs on the dev server
<flocculant> didn't really know what we wanted to do about these standard releases on getxubuntu tbh
<nairwolf> okay, thank you flocculant 
<flocculant> good that we shout the lts at the top 
<knome> yep, i think LTS is always the first one
<flocculant> on there yea for sure
<flocculant> on *here* - not so much :D
<knome> now that we have this nice release thing going on, maybe we can try to improve the updating of the download page as well
<flocculant> oh yea that
<knome> eg. only show the latest LTS by default, then link to the release pages for other downloads or sth
<nairwolf> knome: something really really not critical, but you forget a dot at the end of the second paragraph of this page : https://xubuntu.org/news/xubuntu-16-10-release/
<flocculant> that took me a while to figure out :p
<nairwolf> " if one wishes to test them, be installed from one of the teamâs development PPAs"
<nairwolf> I supposed you wrote this
<knome> nairwolf, i didn't :P
<flocculant> nairwolf: that's cos punctuation is for foreigners :p
<nairwolf> oh
 * flocculant goes to remove all punctuation from the internet
<flocculant> bbl
 * flocculant sets up krytarik to nairwolf aliases
<flocculant> knome: if you can think of how to say something, bluesabre wanted (a while back) to use the announcement to call for contributors
<flocculant> and my head was just in getting *something* down for today
<knome> aha
<knome> so append it somehow?
<flocculant> maybe a paragraph after the gtk3 bit ?
<flocculant> before the get the release warble
<knome> dunno
<knome> :)
<knome> docs.x.o is updated
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> should copyright include 2016?
<knome> i guess so
<knome> and the support page updated
 * nairwolf thinks flocculant need rest !
<knome> pleia2, press
<knome> have we social mediaed either?
<flocculant> knome: not sure how having the release thing would make updating something easier? surely however it's done someone has to actually build the 'new' stuff 
<pleia2> social medias are done
<flocculant> ahah - now you've updated get page I see div class="hb white"/regular :p
<knome> flocculant, well imagine this: every mirror is entered into a database, with variables in the urls, like "http://mirror.url/xubuntu/$codename/"
<flocculant> hi pleia2 and thanks :)
<knome> flocculant, now you simply tell the website to print all mirror URLs for the release, and for example in this case the link would be "http://mirror.url/xubuntu/yakkety/" without manually having to create the list
<flocculant> oh right - that 'stuff' 
<knome> so linking a new release in the download page would be theoretically as simple as s/16.10/17.04/
<flocculant> yea I can see that being a whole lot easier :p
<knome> AND
<knome> with all the release dates and EOL dates in the database *already*
<flocculant> then we would lose eol links :)
<knome> it wouldn't be hard to tell the website to show the latest LTS and the latest regular release if it's not EOL
<flocculant> yep
<knome> so - yeah - we could make this much easier indeed
<knome> not sure we completely want to automate it all, since there's always wiggly stuff, but at least the download link listing...
<flocculant> that said the eol date seems to be a moveable feast - nothing to stop us saying some date - as long as it's not after the date -release say
<flocculant> yea - that is what stopped me doing more than I did :)
<knome> sure, that's totally in our control in both the actual support and on the website
<knome> it's just a field to enter into the DB
<flocculant> (plus didn't want to screw the page up)
<knome> that's ok
<flocculant> yea - nothing wrong with us fixing 9 months as 9 months imo
<flocculant> not 9 months and a week cos someone hasn't done something outside 
<knome> lol
<flocculant> you know the discussions that happen in u-release :)
<knome> yeah
<flocculant> and they would NOT make it 8 months and 3 weeks I'm sure
<knome> otoh, one thing why we might want to align is if there are any problems with upgrading before the EOL...
<knome> but that's just completely unrelated to this all anyway, so... ;)
<flocculant> yea :)
<flocculant> knome: oh yea - a thing I discovered with the Releases side bit
<knome> yep?
<flocculant> it has Show EOL releases - which does - but you can't unshow them
<knome> in admin?
<flocculant> well - refreshing does 
<knome> yeah, it's designed to be like that
<flocculant> no - I mean looking at the website
<knome> i mean, who cares if they are open already...
<knome> :)
<flocculant> oh 
<knome> you usually don't want to see them anyway
<knome> so they are hidden
<flocculant> that didn't happen last time I'm sure - I was looking for old release note with <includes>
<knome> but in case you do, we offer them to you
<flocculant> seems that if you then go *there* list goes back to current
<knome> any refresh resets
<flocculant> yea I guess so - people like me would be odd cases :P
<knome> yep
<flocculant> wth you would want to look at 2012 stuff for ... 
<knome> ;))
<knome> this could be a cookie option - but then we'd have to tell people we are using cookies
<knome> so meh
<flocculant> yea meh
<knome> or sth
<knome> and as we both said, people don't usually want to even look at those
<flocculant> yup
<flocculant> mostly mentioned it just in case :)
<knome> yup
 * flocculant is looking forward to 'is it out yet' in October - I can join in with them :D
<flocculant> thanks for everything over the last few cycles people - time for me to rest now :)
<knome> o/
<knome> you've deserved it
<flocculant> :)
<bluesabre> evening all
<Unit193> Howdy.
<knome> dy.
<nairwolf> hi
<bluesabre> hey Unit193, knome, nairwolf 
<bluesabre> knome, feel better
<knome> feel, yes, look, no
<bluesabre> good enough :)
<knome> yeah, fortunately the awful throat sores are off
<nairwolf> gnome-software doesn't have 'GIMP' inside, did you know that ? 
<nairwolf> Apparently, the problem is since 16.04
<Unit193> Synaptic does. :>
<nairwolf> as I never use gnome-software, I hadn't noticed that
<nairwolf> Yes synaptic does
<nairwolf> I don't see this bug at launchpad.
<knome> well neither of them has GIMP "inside", they are not *that* bloated software... yet
<nairwolf> gnome-software is a shame...
<Unit193> I'm not sure who in the Xubu team actually uses it either, if anyone.
<knome> <- apt(-get)
<nairwolf> knome, sorry for my english. How should I say that ? 
<Unit193> nairwolf: s/ame/am/ ;P
<knome> i'm just kidding.
<nairwolf> :p
<nairwolf> I can't imagine gimp dev be satisfied with this situation...
<nairwolf> I can't imagine this bug not reported yet...
<nairwolf> I only see this bug from pleia2 : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-software/+bug/1553629
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1553629 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) "gnome-software freezes on Xubuntu 16.04 daily when installing gimp" [High,Confirmed]
<nairwolf> Tomorrow, I'll try to find someone for this bug. 
<knome> bug 1567883
<ubottu> bug 1567883 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) "Can not install/remove Gimp with Software" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1567883
<nairwolf> thank you knome
<knome> btw, google "gimp gnome-software", this is the fifth result for me
<nairwolf> That's because I used the search bar of Launchpad
<nairwolf> if you search 'Gimp' at this page, you only find pleia2's bug
<nairwolf> thank you btw
<knome> yes, because this bug is marked "fix released", and those bugs are hidden by default
<nairwolf> that's right ! 
<nairwolf> Do you think it's better to open a new bug, in order to make the new bug visible by default ? 
<nairwolf> oh, I can change status by myself apparently
<nairwolf> oh, non...
<knome> i'd confirm the bug with somebody first in any case
<nairwolf> I'm not the one to have seen this bug
<nairwolf> I've seen that from a french reviewer of 16.10
<knome> and you can't confirm it?
<nairwolf> I can confirm
<nairwolf> I woudn't have talked about this bug if I couldn't confirm. 
<nairwolf> I verified obviously
#xubuntu-devel 2016-10-14
<knome> nicolaEdison, ...and since you say the website was confusing, do you have any suggestions on making it less so?
<nicolaEdison> IDK, perhaps making a link to the IRC.
<nicolaEdison> I found the IRC via Help/Support.
<knome> one of the problems from the teams side is that especially with development stuff, there isn't a single good place to point people to, so it has to be kind of general
<nicolaEdison> Everything else was suggesting I go to "launchpad" but that had no real leads from there.
<nicolaEdison> Agreed. Not having a real "goto" place makes it difficult. I figured IRC is a good place to start.
 * knome goes poking a bit
<knome> but feel free to ask any questions
<nicolaEdison> So, knome. What do you do around here.
<Unit193> Well launchpad is were it all happens, but yeah that's not really a jumping off point.
<knome> Unit193, krytarik and bluesabre are lurking
<knome> well, not Unit193 any more..
<Unit193> I was not.
<bluesabre> hello
<Unit193> I specifically remember hiding.
 * bluesabre was coding, not lurking
<nicolaEdison> Howdy all. I'm just looking to join an OS dev group.
<nicolaEdison> I've used several flavours of Linux for several years now and I figure. I know embedded development and Assembly, why not see what I can do to help.
<nicolaEdison> I was just wondering what all'yall do, and if anybody had any good suggestions for a starting point.
<Unit193> Well bluesabre is the technical lead, so there's that.  Generally speaking it's recommended that you find a bug that affects you and fix it for the first go, but there's other ways too.  Xfce is C, but that's also more upstream than Xubuntu (and is currently porting everything to GTK3 now.)
<bluesabre> pretty much exactly that ^
<Unit193> bluesabre likes python though, and keeps thinking he should update the Xfce python bindings rather than re-implementing it in every application, but so far.. ;)
<nicolaEdison> Huh, I have been meaning to break into more C/++ GUI based programming (so far my C manipulations have dealt with files and the like).
<bluesabre> Xfce is a good place to start then, the apps already exist (and have plenty of bugs here or there that could do with small patches)
<knome> nicolaEdison, i updated the "Get Involved" page, does it look less confusing now? :)
<nicolaEdison> Well then. How should I join/start.
<nicolaEdison> Ooh. Thanks Knome
<Unit193> nicolaEdison: knome is website/PR/artwork, bluesabre is dev/packaging, I'm packaging/weirdstuff.
<knome> nicolaEdison, and to answer your question, i'm one of the council members as well as the website lead.
<knome> xfce is currently in a migration state from GTK2 to GTK3, so there's at least quite a lot of work to do...
<bluesabre> nicolaEdison, I'd recommend hanging around here and in #xfce-dev and joining a few of the mailing lists (https://mail.xfce.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce4-dev, https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel)
<nicolaEdison> The "Get involved" page seems much more, how you say, resourceful
<knome> well good
<knome> even if it actually has the same amount of links and to less content ;)
<knome> i think the problem was that the developer area was hidden too well..
<nairwolf> hello nicolaEdison ;)
<nicolaEdison> Knome :P Ssssh, that's how UX work
<nicolaEdison> Hi nariwolf
<bluesabre> nicolaEdison, https://wiki.xfce.org/contribute/easybugs might interest you to get started
<knome> reminds me we should set up the next devel version on the tracker
<Unit193> Our team is very IRC based too, so we all either end up using a bouncer or always-on IRC client.
<knome> *very* IRC based
<nicolaEdison> And people say IRC is outdated. PSSSSH
<Unit193> Eg, half of us haven't sent anything to the mailing list this year, and some others try to avoid it like ebola. :P
<bluesabre> lol
<knome> bluesabre, oh man, you created all those blueprints but not an umbrella one
<bluesabre> knome, I created a single blueprint :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Wait, so did we actually push the meetings back on to the council officially now?
<nairwolf> nevetherless, I think it would be a great things to use more mailing-list. Because sometimes, you can't be here, and you can't see important things you talked. 
<bluesabre> Unit193, hm?
<knome> Unit193, nno?
<nairwolf> I know you can read logs, but it's not the same thing as reading its mails
<Unit193> knome: Hrm, OK..
<knome> Unit193, why would we want to push more tasks for the council as we are trying to make the tasks spread out better with a council?
<Unit193> Makes sense, we broke it out because the team lead didn't have much time, now there's 3 of 'em.
<knome> it still doesn't mean we have three times the time, or that it's fine to dump it all on us ;)
<knome> but i'll take a double amount of chairs if people feel like the council shouldn't slack out
<knome> (no, not taking your turn, Unit193, just another one in the schedule)
<electricerger> Hello, am I connected.
<nicolaEdison> Yes, me you are
<Unit193> So, in the sense of "XCM+team lead", then sure.
<Unit193> Hodwy.
<electricerger> Hi again. (This is my main tag for nicolaTessla)
<Unit193> (Because then if someone isn't a team lead, still gets into the queue.)
<knome> Unit193, well i guess in that sense, but i also meant that i can do double chairs as a council member.
<knome> i really don't care if i chair 1 or 3 meetings during the cycle, as long as i don't chair every meeting
<knome> oookay, the new release is set up @ dev.xubuntu.org
<knome> the umbrella blueprint --> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-z-roadmap
<bluesabre> knome, thanks!
<bluesabre> more progress with the puzzle launcher, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNlCvLuLgkk&feature=youtu.be
<flocculant> bluesabre: dev blueprint going to track â¡ Thunar is dead. Long live Thunar! â¡?
<sorinello_> Thunar is dead ? :o
<flocculant> it's limping so much it's going round in circles :)
<flocculant> sorinello_: https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2016/xubuntu-devel.2016-09-09-22.00.log.html#l-108
<flocculant> http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-z-filemanager
<Unit193> sorinello_: Unless you'd like to join on the quest for the perfect patch.
<flocculant> yup
<Unit193> And a maintainer.
<sorinello_> Too bad the XFCE community is not able to handle this :(
<bluesabre> flocculant, thanks, added to the blueprint
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: mugshot - just a thought :p
<bluesabre> flocculant, feel free to add proposals tasks or proposals to the whiteboard :)
<bluesabre> wrote that word a few too many times :D
<flocculant> well I don't like to do that for you :p
<flocculant> cos I'm nicer than people think lol
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> I'm a jerk, if I didn't agree I'd probably remove it
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<bluesabre> time to run, bbl
<flocculant> have a good one :)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r478 Rebase on Adwaita 3.22.1 (Fixes #155)... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r479 Also update the css files... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
<Unit193> flocculant: Right, so the tests of upgrades went fine, an actual upgrade broke at the end, nice..
<flocculant> very
<flocculant> ones I did were actual upgrades - went fine
<akxwi-dave> lol.. reminds me of 15.10 to lts.. that happened to me
<Unit193> Just crashed at the end where it was supposed to remove some packages, so end user would have been fine too.
<flocculant> Unit193: not too bad then - not good of course
<amerigena> Does any developer present know when / if the Thunar bug is going to be fixed? Or, if it's even being addressed?
<amerigena> Just curious.
<knome> we don't even know what the cause is
<knome> doesn't help giving estimates when it's fixed..
<Unit193> Presuming you have thunar from yak, it'll at least crash "less"...
<amerigena> OK.
<amerigena> Thank you for those answers.
<amerigena> Now, I have another question, provided you're willing to answer it.
<amerigena> I have seen that there's a patch available, for this bug. I've applied it.
<knome> that's likely the patch that is in yakkety you are talking about
<amerigena> OK.
<amerigena> I stand corrected.
<knome> a few things have been tried but none of them fixed the bug in all situations for all people
<knome> it might be different - if it 100% fixes the issue for you, then let us know...
<Unit193> Or he means the one that Debian tried, then reverted because it caused more problems than it fixed.
<amerigena> Well, that's hard to say.
<amerigena> I can say that I tried moving an ISO file and lost it, pre-patch, and then performed the same operation and didn't lose it, post-patch, but that seems like inadequate QA to me, for the purposes of this discussion.
<Unit193> Which patch?
<amerigena> How much testing constitutes certainty for you?
<knome> the crashes are relatively easy to reproduce, i haven't had to try very hard to reproduce them
<amerigena> http://tqdev.com/2016-xubuntu-16-04-thunar-crashes-on-rename
<amerigena> I followed the steps in this link.
<Unit193> amerigena: That patch is in yak, as well as two others.
<amerigena> Performed the test, Thunar crashed. Followed the steps, performed the steps again, Thunar didn't crash.
<amerigena> Performed the TEST again.
<amerigena> Thunar didn't crash. Should learn how to type.
<amerigena> K
<Unit193> And yeah, makes things less crashy, but doesn't fix entirely.
<amerigena> So 16.10 (and all releases going forward) should include the patch.
<amerigena> Excellent.
<amerigena> Next question, for knome, since theming is his stock-in-trade : I've had problems with offset drop shadows on desktop fonts when changing themes.
<amerigena> Is this an issue that's been addressed in 16.10 as well?
<knome> i'll delegate that question to ochosi
<knome> but i think the answer is "no"
<knome> (but i don't use desktop icons, so...)
<knome> i've seen a few people mention that lately though
<amerigena> I change from Greybird to Orion, desktop fonts are messed up. Changing back to Greybird and rebooting seems to fix it.
<knome> ah.
<knome> maybe it's some gtk3 breakage then.
<knome> or sth.
<knome> generally, if it works with greybird, but not with other themes, you need to be in touch with the developers of those themes
<knome> that isn't to say we wouldn't care about other themes working, but in those cases it sounds much more like those other themes just not being up-to-date or having something
<knome> and ochosi has enough work with maintaining greybird already ;)
<amerigena> Understood.
<knome> if you want to test something with another theme that should work, try adwaita
<amerigena> I thought that Orion was part of the shimmer-themes package that installed using the PPA for your daily builds?
<knome> sure, but the problem is the same; not enough time to maintain all the themes with the ever-changing gtk3 stuff
<amerigena> OK.
<amerigena> So this an upstream issue? Until the Xfce developers fix the underlying problems, Xubuntu is going to experience these symptoms?
<amerigena> The primary underlying problem being the constant platform changes in GTK3?
<knome> if it works in greybird, but not orion, it's a bug in orion
<knome> the reason why i mention gtk3 changing is that it IS indeed in a very flowing state; requirements for themes change every release
<knome> we (read: ochosi) try to keep greybird in a state that works with the current gtk3 release in every xubuntu release
<amerigena> OK.
<amerigena> That's interesting.
<amerigena> Is information like that included in the Xubuntu documentation? 
<knome> nope.
<amerigena> Seems like it should be. Although I can understand why it might not be. From my limited knowledge of Xubuntu, it seems like you guys suffer from a lack of contributors. The generally high quality of your finished product is very impressive, despite this fact.
<knome> well, it's kind of the same with everything else as well
<knome> for example, consider thunar;
<amerigena> Right.
<knome> we try to keep it in a usable state with whatever the current libraries are, but sometimes bugs still slip through
<knome> the main way we try to communicate about these bugs we were unable to fix are the release announcement/notes
<amerigena> Of course. But the fact that this "patch" exists and has been applied at the Xubuntu-level, does that mean that no work is being done on it upstream? And forgive me if I'm asking a question that you can't answer.
<amerigena> Excuse me, "it" being Thunar.
<knome> it doesn't
<knome> another thing to keep in mind is that there is overlap between the xubuntu and xfce (eg. upstream) teams
<knome> of course the developers who work with both will try the fixes on their "preferred" platform (here, xubuntu) first, before pushing upstream
<knome> yet another thing is that upstream releases happen at more or less arbitrary times; there is no special syncing with (x)ubuntu releases
<knome> this means sometimes patches need to be carried out as xubuntu-specific ones as the new upstream release isn't done
<knome> and from the xubuntu POV, it's better to have the "best possible" patch in the release
<knome> while on the xfce POV, it might not be worth it to apply a patch that seems to fix only part of the crashes that happen, thus no release
<knome> (and now remember that one person can be part of both of the developer groups...)
<knome> the reason why all this isn't written out is that it IS complicated
<amerigena> Yes. It certainly seems to be. 
<knome> so having this all, or part of it, in the documentation (that is purposefully targeted at end users) would likely just scare even more people away
<flocculant> :)
<Unit193> knome: You gonna look at the Xubuntu MPs?
<knome> which ones particularly?
<Unit193> xubuntu-docs.
<knome> i'll peek.
<knome> one only?
<knome> merged
<Unit193> krytarik: â they'll build again.
<knome> any reason we still have our main branches under ~ubuntu-core-doc?
<knome> it kind of feels weird.
<knome> but okay.
<Unit193> Don't look at me, I wondered why Xubuntu Docs team can't commit to the Xubuntu docs without some outside power approving it.
<knome> i guess it's because "those branches are used to create packages" or sth.
<Unit193> So are the and the xubuntu-dev ones aren't?
<Unit193> Wow, I did not just stroke out.
<knome> yeah, i don't know
<knome> i wonder when we'll get the new codename
<Unit193> Going to move them so they're under our control and not that of a semi dead team?  And, later than everyone would like.  cjwatson had a nice graph.
<knome> nice graph of what?
<knome> i guess i could register the new branch under ~xubuntu-docs, yeah.
<Unit193> http://people.canonical.com/~cjwatson/tmp/release-name-notice.png
<knome> oh sigh
<knome> ~xubuntu-doc vs. xubutnu-
<knome> alkrglakfjg
<knome> xubuntu-docs too
<SwissBot> feed xubuntu-docs had 6 updates, showing the latest 3
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: [yakkety] r623 Launchpad automatic translations update. (by Launchpad Translations on behalf of ubuntu-core-doc)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: [yakkety] r624 Launchpad automatic translations update. (by Launchpad Translations on behalf of ubuntu-core-doc)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: [yakkety] r625 Merging Sean's MP.... (by Pasi Lallinaho)
#xubuntu-devel 2016-10-15
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: [yakkety] r626 Launchpad automatic translations update. (by Launchpad Translations on behalf of ubuntu-core-doc)
#xubuntu-devel 2016-10-16
<tracker1> Hi! 
<tracker1> i have a question about xubuntu! someone can help me?
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: [yakkety] r627 Launchpad automatic translations update. (by Launchpad Translations on behalf of ubuntu-core-doc)
<flocculant> bluesabre: feels like I just finding more stuff for someone else :( but - are we going to revert to (and get that fixed) tosystem user units 
<sorinello> Hello. I might have found an issue regarding Xubuntu and VMWare workstation. This might not be related to xubuntu, but related to Ubuntu. Upgrading or making a clean install of 16.10 on a WmWare Workstation doesn't work. After upgrade, the system hands. At the clean install,  the system hangs also
<sorinello> any Idea if I am missing something ?
<sorinello> I remember I had some issues when I upgraded to 16.04 6 months ago, and it was a reported bug
<flocculant> sorinello: not really seen any specific vmware bugs during the cycle - but I don't actively look either
<flocculant> if you had issues with 16.04 it's entirely possible you will again
<flocculant> we don't specifically test against virtual hosts 
<flocculant> maybe try #ubuntu 
<sorinello> flocculant,  yes, but now I also get stuck when installing 16.10 from scratch. so this not my old vm which is bad. I asked here just to see if you guys know something about this, as I really don't think this is xubuntu related
<flocculant> the time to be seeing if a new dev version works with *your* vm host isn't the week after it's released - but the months before it is release
<flocculant> d
<flocculant> much more chance of getting something fixed :)
<flocculant> yea - this is more likely to be a *buntu issue for sure
<sorinello> I'll investigate it, but when starting in debug mode, I saw a kernel panic  there, but I can't figure out from which module
<sorinello> it might be the drivers for vmware
<bluesabre> flocculant, no hurry to, I don't know how to fix it once we do, so I'll wait for pitti to poke us with i
<bluesabre> t
<flocculant> cool - wasn't in any hurry - was just wondering :)
<flocculant> have a good day :D
<sorinello> flocculant, ok, mystery solved. It seems I had to edit the vmx file of the VM, and add a line to make it work.
<sorinello> Error Message: "The CPU has been disabled by the guest operating system. Power off or reset the virtual machine."
<sorinello> found t he oclution on a youtube video
<sorinello> *solution
<flocculant> sorinello: oh right - well yea - I saw that fix too, but didn't know your error :)
<sorinello> seems to be on VmWare's side, no related to *ubuntu
<flocculant> mmm
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r480 Get rid of more single-color gradients (issue #155)... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r481 Get rid of the remaining single-stop gradients (issue #155)... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
#xubuntu-devel 2017-10-09
<Unit193> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/340180936/xubuntu-meta_2.217_2.218.diff.gz urgh..
<flocculant> yea knew about that stuff - don't say anything anymore when I see things being added
<Unit193> Yeah saw it coming, but still...
<knome> hmm, why do we need liberation?
<knome> do they bring some language support?
<flocculant> nope they just bring freedom
<flocculant> or liberation at least :D
<flocculant> didn't bother saying anything about fonts cos last time I did it was pointless
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: we're 11 days from release - if we're going to try to get some increase in testing of rc then we need to do it now :)
<knome> lol, well
<knome> the liberation fonts are okay, but i think we have better options available
<knome> i might be wrong for serif though
<knome> (noto serif isn't shipped with the noto packages we have right?)
<flocculant> knome: manifest from 30th June has fonts-liberation - don't think it's added, perhaps where it comes from has changed
<flocculant> -indic is new
<flocculant> http://paste.ubuntu.com/25706947/
<knome> mhm
<knome> maybe we should do a quick overview of the fonts for 18.04 amongst other things too
<flocculant> knome: possibly, though last time I brought fonts up it was 'what about this user or that user' so not sure why we need to worry about fonts :)
<knome> that discussion was probably about supporting languages
<knome> noto should support way more languages than many others, especially if we ship the whole package
<flocculant> nope - was about why would we want to include noto iirc
<knome> right...
<flocculant> or rather -cjk
<knome> yep
<knome> cjk aka chinese japanese korean
<flocculant> yea
<knome> eg. language support :P
<flocculant> *shrug*
<knome> or technically glyph but..
<knome> aaanyway
<knome> eating and youtubing
<knome> not videoing :P
<flocculant> don't really see that there's much need to worry about us having 'some' fonts
<flocculant> on the other hand - don't much care or have an axe to grind on it
<knome> i'd probably just dump most of the other fonts if noto can support most
<knome> yeah, it's a detail
<flocculant> well
<knome> that probably has more meaning for me than you
<knome> etc...
<flocculant> likely that's just going to really annoy me :)
<knome> heh
<flocculant> I change fonts - like other stuff in 'appearance overall'
<knome> :)
<flocculant> and when the scale of 'I need to change this now as well' gets too much - I'll use some other distro 
<knome> yeah
<knome> though isn't noto our default anyway now? :)
<knome> so no extra change there
<knome> unless you change it to something else that is now shipped but won't if we do a cull
<flocculant> yup
<flocculant> obviously that's the same for everyone, not me in particular :)
<knome> yep
<akxwi-dave> flocculant:  ack.. will sort..
<akxwi-dave> oh and when does the new job start?
<flocculant> 26th :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: do remember what the outcome for the not being able to search new locattions in weather app was?
<flocculant> would be quite nice to have that working before release
<ochosi> the weather plugin you mean?
<flocculant> ochosi: yea
<ochosi> oh right, never noticed that bug before
<ochosi> just don't use the plugin very much atm
<flocculant> just seen some bugmail which reminded me ...
<ochosi> is there an upstream report about this too?
<flocculant> seems to be more than 1 ...
<flocculant> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13877
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 13877 in General "It is not possible to change weather forecast location anymore" [Normal,New]
<flocculant> 13901 os a dupe of that one
<ochosi> i'll test the patch now
<flocculant> ok 
<ochosi> if it works we can at least ship it as a patch for 17.10
<ochosi> and it's fairly trivial
<flocculant> yup
<ochosi> i can also make sure it ends up in upstream
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> there is an lp one I did in september - linked upstream to it now
<flocculant> can't remember why I stopped doing more - vague recollection of chat in #xfce-dev at the time
<flocculant> bug 1718182
<ubottu> bug 1718182 in xfce4-weather-plugin (Ubuntu) "Unable to search for new locations" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1718182
<ochosi> so the patch doesn't seem to help
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> must try to find time this week to double check bugs listed 
<flocculant> back tomorrow 
<ochosi> the patch/analysis is sound though
<ochosi> i'll debug a little more later
#xubuntu-devel 2017-10-10
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: looks like popey is running a hangout on iso testing etc on Monday, we should mailing list that too 
<Unit193> bluesabre: http://paste.openstack.org/show/9UIqKBd1vJ1U1D061Av0 xfce4-weather-plugin with fixed location search.
<bluesabre> Unit193: feel free to upload to artful
<Unit193> Mainly looking for a sanity check, will do later today (man that's a close one.)
<bluesabre> Cool, looks sane to me
<Unit193> \o/
<flocculant> bluesabre: not sure if we're interested at all, but seemingly it's possible to have snaps in the iso - useful perhaps at least to know that it's a working thing 
<bluesabre> flocculant: indeed, could be neat
<flocculant> https://community.ubuntu.com/t/cft-ubuntu-mate-17-10-pre-install-snap/455
<flocculant> I'm *shrug*, but justing passing info along when I see it :D
<bluesabre> At the same time, I feel like that's a bit unfair, since most new things that are normally packaged have to make it into debian first
<bluesabre> but whatever :)
<flocculant> also sent someone to the mailing list from the forums
<flocculant> yea :)
<flocculant> I d actually look at that pulseviewer and wondered why ... 
<flocculant> I did ...
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> oh yea immediately found an issue :p F2 to input, F1 to see outputs - open help :D
<bluesabre> Yeah
<bluesabre> terminal apps can't stop event propogation
<flocculant> mind that's the same with alsamixer 
<bluesabre> There's a setting in the terminal prefs to disable the keyboard shortcuts
<flocculant> right
<flocculant> ok
<bluesabre> Preferences > Advanced > Shortcuts
 * flocculant goes back to looking at the tool orders and prevaricates on spending that Â£600 a bit longer
<Unit193> Urgh, snaps just seem like a way to break the rules, and them becoming more acceptable and now seeding them without fixing the rules makes it even more fun...
<flocculant> thought you might :)
 * flocculant is just the messenger ;)
<Unit193> (Debian 876254, btw.)
<ubottu> Debian bug 876254 in wnpp "ITP: pulsemixer -- command-line mixer for PulseAudio with a curses interface" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/876254
#xubuntu-devel 2017-10-11
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: back to parole not playing videos 
<bluesabre> :\
<bluesabre> flocculant: I see some updates to va-driver recently... that might be related
<bluesabre> testing for myself
<bluesabre> flocculant: works for at least 1 big buck bunny video
<knome> only one?
<knome> :P
<flocculant> bluesabre: got some clutter update this morning - you can un :\ now :p
<ochosi> flocculant: i guess you read about the weather-plugin update
<ochosi> guess we should try to push that in still
<flocculant> ochosi: I grabbed from -proposed to check it worked - which it did :)
<flocculant> and yea - I guess it's a bug fix so assume that's ok
<Unit193> ochosi: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-weather-plugin/0.8.9-1ubuntu1 ?
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-weather-plugin 0.8.10 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-weather-plugin-0-8-10-released-tp49915.html (by Harald Judt)
<ochosi> flocculant: nice
<ochosi> Unit193: cool, well done
<Unit193> I don't really think the new version is exactly needed, though. :3
<bluesabre> Yeah, no rush on that :)
<bluesabre> knome, yup, will do those branding uploads
<knome> i'll try to get the stuff ready asap when the cycle branches are open
<bluesabre> I think it might be smart to schedule a meeting or two to get blueprints ready for the next cycle... they just kinda rolled over last time, and I think it'd be good to evaluate where we are and where we're going
<Unit193> Don't kill me, but technically might be good to SRU that. >_>
<bluesabre> Yup
<bluesabre> Started a 18.04 development wiki page here, feel free to add ideas/notes/etc and chat here, https://wiki.xubuntu.org/devel/xubuntu-18.04
<Unit193> According to releases, xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin is still developmental.  Also are you sure it's ready?
<bluesabre> I'd like to expand testing on it, I think it's pretty solid and use it daily
<Unit193> I still use indicator-sound. :3
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> Happy to get feedback to improve it
<Unit193> Also, the word you're looking for is "xfce4-volumed"
<bluesabre> oh right
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> Nah, it's just me not liking things.
<bluesabre> I think it'd be cool to get this discussion rolling early and we might be able to get a super early call for testing with Artful's release + PPAs as xubuntu-next
<bluesabre> Definitely a lot more eyes see release announcements, seems like a good place to start LTS development
<bluesabre> Gotta head out now, but let's keep the conversation active over the next few days :)
<Unit193> (Specifically, the mpris support seems finicky as compared to ind-sound; the switches look weird, large, and out of place; and mpris controls don't look as nice as ind-sound.)
<bluesabre> Interestingly, the switches in Numix are way smaller in daily than in Artful
<bluesabre> But thanks for the additional info :)
<Unit193> I also don't like saying bad things about it because you worked hard on it, and I don't want to be ungreatful. :(
<Unit193> I'm using the second to latest release, thus a patched version of what's in Arty.
<bluesabre> No problem, if you have things you don't like about it, others will share the same feelings
<bluesabre> for the mpris issues, let me know what weirdness you're seeing and with which player
<Unit193> ...I hung it. :3
<Unit193>  1. Button to launch player remains clickable after application launch, does nothing.
<Unit193>  2. Forward/back/play remain depressed after clicking, with no application open, open but nothing playing, and during playback.  Difference in mode, all are white at first if application not running, only play with application launched but not playing.
<Unit193> VLC
#xubuntu-devel 2017-10-12
<flocculant> vlc isn't the only player which doesn't come back from minimised, qmmp is the same
<flocculant> don't see the other issues with vlc though
 * flocculant likes shouting "Artful's release + PPAs as xubuntu-next"
<bluesabre> flocculant: does that work with indicator-sound? Some players, including spotify, do not support the raise method
<bluesabre> There's probably some things I can do to better support that with some X library
<bluesabre> But I know it doesn't work with ind-sound
<bluesabre> + spotify
<flocculant> bluesabre: not a clue - rarely used the other one anyway, only reason I am now is to test if for you :)
<flocculant> did know that the old way had playlist support - hence the mention of that a while ago
<flocculant> bbl
<bluesabre> Yeah, will probably look into that feature soon
<flocculant> wasn't a prod - just a for instance :)
<Unit193> flocculant: BTW, if you don't want to remember 'systemd.unit=multi-user.target', then just use '3'
<flocculant> Unit193: I don't even remember what that was for now :D
<Unit193> !text
<ubottu> To start your system in text-only mode append 'text' (without the quotes) to the kernel line in the grub menu. You can access the grub menu by pressing Esc (Grub legacy) or Shift (Grub2) during boot. For more info see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BootOptions#Text%20Mode
<flocculant> oh yea :)
<flocculant> best fix factoid :D
#xubuntu-devel 2017-10-13
<flocculant> bluesabre: pa plugin - possibly a niggly thing people might pick up on, hover over plugin icon and get vol level %, open plugin and hover over volume gives no indicayion
<Managor> Is anyone here a expert on the whiskers menu?
<knome> why not ask the real question and find out?
<Managor> Ah, sorry. The menu layout keeps fucking up with programs installed with wine
<knome> ...and please remember this is a family-friendly channel
<Managor> https://imgur.com/a/N70DY Made a quick rundown on how the menu behaves
<Managor> neither menulibre or alacarte has any sort of ways to repair these problems
<Managor> Does the menu parse from filenames as well? http://i.imgur.com/miPAjsq.png This is what applications-merged looks like currently.
<Managor> Could be also that menulibre doesn't like spaces in folder names http://i.imgur.com/7WVu72L.png
<Managor> I'm sorry, I'm not a good enough programmer to fix these things in the source code, but I'm willing to help provide software testing
<flocculant> bluesabre: also nice at dedoimedo :)
<knome> slickymaster, any plans or thoughts about documentation team stuff for 18.04?
<slickymaster> not yet knome 
<knome> ok
<slickymaster> but it's time indeed to start thinking of it
<knome> i was thinking making the installer slideshow shorter
<slickymaster> LTS on our way
<knome> but that's about it
<knome> and potentially make it less tall
<knome> so it fits some small resolutions better
<flocculant> not thoughts about revamping ti completely then? 
<knome> well that
<flocculant> stale
<slickymaster> I'd leave that to 18.04 flocculant 
<knome> but generally make it more shorter...
<knome> and less longer
<knome> :P
<flocculant> slickymaster: we're talking about 18.04 - in 2 weeks it starts :D
<slickymaster> any particular itens you're thinking dropping, knome?
<knome> nope
<knome> my though process isn't that far yet
<knome> +t
<knome> i'm going to be working with the logo stuff first...
<Managor> I'll request that someone looks at how menulibre and whiskers menu processes spaces in folder names so I don't have to pull my hairs out sorting it out
#xubuntu-devel 2017-10-14
<knome> oh, this is the requests channel!
<knome> i request somebody massages my back
<knome> (:
<flocculant> 0_0
<knome> hello flocculant 
<knome> and good morning
<flocculant> I request someone to massage some thing else - but not from people here :D
<knome> guess you didn't expect to see me here this early
<knome> and not on this channel :P
<flocculant> :D
<flocculant> nope not at all :)
<bluesabre> thanks flocculant 
<flocculant> np - you did the work :D
<bluesabre> hi flocculant 
<bluesabre> and others
<bluesabre> working on the release notes, http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-17-10
<bluesabre> shew, ochosi hopped right on them
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: new kernel should fix the kvm issue - our next build 
<flocculant> release notes? or announcement?
<ochosi> nice work bluesabre 
 * ochosi is currently a little distracted restoring files out of lost+found
<flocculant> oh deary deary me
<bluesabre> flocculant: both maybe?
<flocculant> bluesabre: shrug :) probably release note material rather than announcement 
<flocculant> imo
<bluesabre> yeah
<flocculant> https://wiki.xubuntu.org/releases/17.10/release-notes
<bluesabre> Too much for announcement
<flocculant> is already there - so you could use that 
<bluesabre> Yeah
<flocculant> I've still got to clean that up for next week obviously
<bluesabre> Thankfully, I think most of what I wrote was not already written :D
<flocculant> yup
<flocculant> for 'most' of the cycle it's just real simple for the 3 or 4 people who look :D
<ochosi> flocculant: how is this bugreport still open? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-indicator-plugin/+bug/1644917 upstream it was marked as fixed already and i thought it has been released too..?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1644917 in xfce4-indicator-plugin (Ubuntu) "Label missing from indicator-plugin clear option" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<flocculant> bluesabre: also all that you wrote on pad - none of that I would have written :D
<bluesabre> Seemed like useful/relevant details
<flocculant> yea it is
<flocculant> ochosi: I never have a clue how launchpad works 
<bluesabre> (nobody does)
<Unit193> 'weather plugin bug' fixed.
<flocculant> ochosi: also can't check - no indicator-plugin
<flocculant> Unit193: I know :)
<flocculant> oh hang on - that was the other install :p
<flocculant> ochosi: ok, bus isn't fixed here
<flocculant> hangs are still cold
<flocculant> oh sigh :(
<bluesabre> ochosi: might be because that plugin hasn't had a release in nearly 3 years
<ochosi> pfff
<ochosi> well at least we could've picked up the patch i guess
<ochosi> but we can also poke andrzejr into making a release
<Unit193> I get a mouse over on the clear button...
<Unit193> ochosi: Would be good to get Ayatana support first.
<ochosi> even if we want to replace it in the next release
<flocculant> ochosi: took the words out of my hands :D
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> hmpf, annoying to have such a bug in the release, but well, at least it's not LTS
<ochosi> i can't reproduce this one anymore: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/greybird-gtk-theme/+bug/1683857
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1683857 in greybird-gtk-theme (Ubuntu) "Terminal border doubles when more than 1 tab" [Undecided,Triaged]
<flocculant> ochosi: I would have checked at b2 time to see that bug
<ochosi> and i think it was resolved somehow in the terminal itself
<ochosi> or i really fixed it in greybird
<ochosi> don't remember now...
<flocculant> my trouble is generally using our ppa's - then not double checking the iso state 
<ochosi> mhm, understandable
<ochosi> at least in 17.04 i don't see the 2px terminal border
<flocculant> I don't see it 'here' 
<flocculant> by Thursday the rel note will be up to date
<flocculant> also I have issues with kvm currently so booting it and using it is a royal pain
<ochosi> this one i can confirm and it's not a greybird issue at least: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sgt-launcher/+bug/1670610
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1670610 in sgt-launcher (Ubuntu) "Menu bar greyed out" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ochosi> (not sure if that makes it "better", but at least i'm not the one who has to fix it ;))
<flocculant> lol
<bluesabre> Yup
<bluesabre> Still not sure what the right way is to fix that, other than eat the menubar and have it displayed by the app
<flocculant> oh - the other sgt bug appears to now be invalid as there's no preferences at all :)
<bluesabre> Yup
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> Can't click what you can't see
<ochosi> haha, well done
<ochosi> i'll fix all my future bugs like that
<bluesabre> I might use that for future fixes
<flocculant> ha ha ha awesome :)
<flocculant> we can just immediately mark everything invalid :p
<bluesabre> parole video bugs... rename to "Parole Audio Player"
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<ochosi> lol
<ochosi> well, as my script is walking the lost+found md5 hashes on its own now i guess i'll be on my way for the night
<flocculant> night night then :)
<ochosi> nighty!
<bluesabre> nighty ochosi
<ochosi> and thanks for putting together the RN, they already look quite good to me
<ochosi> it actually makes 17.10 feel like a much more worthwhile release than it felt during its development time
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> was a funny one for sure
<ochosi> but i guess the good thing is that much of the upstream work has arrived
<ochosi> although in 18.04 that'll be much more fun still
<ochosi> especially looking forward to the discussion which 4.13 components we'll pick
<flocculant> bluesabre: re your comment a while back, push people to test artful+ppa's. I like that one - but obviously will need to know which ppa's and have them actually available
<bluesabre> flocculant: yeah, will need to think on that a bit more, but definitely interested in going that direction
<flocculant> we can haz chat closer to the time 
<flocculant> anyway - need to chill out now - cya all later 
<bluesabre> Sure thing, have a good night flocculant 
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 17.10 - i386 - i386 built.
#xubuntu-devel 2017-10-15
<Unit193> xfdesktop4, xfce4-clipman-plugin, xfce4-indicator-plugin, and xfce4-mount-plugin uploaded to Debian! \o/
<Unit193> (And gigolo)
<Unit193> Erm, Oh.
<bluesabre> nice!
<flocculant> evening all
<Unit193> bluesabre: Somehow we both missed picking up xfdesktop 4.12.4?
<Unit193> Can we open Bashful Betazoid yet?
<flocculant> ?
<flocculant> Bill'n'Ben
<Unit193> And now xfce4-weather-plugin
#xubuntu-devel 2018-10-08
<Unit193> Pushed xfce4-settings 4.13.5 to PPA, this won't be in Cosmic but good to try anyway and might be nice, depending on if you use multimonitors.
<ochosi> Unit193: thanks!
#xubuntu-devel 2018-10-09
<Unit193> bluesabre: FYI, you're Debian package 'mugshot' was removed from testing a little while ago.
<bluesabre> Unit193: :o
<bluesabre> that's right, my update never got sponsored
<bluesabre> :\
<bluesabre> Will nag some folks
<Unit193> Thanks.
<Unit193> Doesn't include the new upstream, does it?
<bluesabre> ?
<Unit193> Looks like vcs has 040, 041 is newest release.
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> More work to do then :P
<Unit193> Sorry.  If you lend me your ssh key, I'll do it in your name. :P
<bluesabre> lol
<Unit193> (Checking up on Jackson's packages, seeing what I can maybe update in Debian.)
<Unit193> https://bugs.debian.org/909419
<ubottu> Debian bug 909419 in ftp.debian.org "RM: xfce4-quicklauncher-plugin -- ROM; unmaintained upstream" [Normal,Open]
<flocculant> I just looked at that - seems that I've got it in French :p
<knome> bluesabre, Unit193: was there something finicky about the logos in the plymouth theme (we have those "16bit" versions?)
<Unit193> If there was, can't remember.
<knome> no alpha for 16bit?
<knome> yeah, looks like that's it
<knome> the regular images have a slight blurry bg
<knome> or shadow, one might say, but it's light
<knome> technically they seem to be identical.
<knome> bluesabre, do we have a sensible way to test plymouth stuff?
<knome> maybe we should leave this bit for dd
<knome> freezes and all that jazz too
<knome> bluesabre, please double-check, but here's the branch prepared with the new wall: https://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/commit/?id=2f58116b6979b600145855b0543cae076258b17b
<knome> bluesabre, and sorry for being so late...
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: New wallpaper for 18.10 @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/commit/?id=2f58116b6979b600145855b0543cae076258b17b (by Pasi Lallinaho)
<knome> Unit193, you can check and upload if you fancy too!
<knome> but now i must run
<knome> catch you later
<bluesabre> knome: uploaded!
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: Release 18.10.3 @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/commit/?id=e553bd6e651f949a1b983f8721a3ac27ac63ddef (by Sean Davis)
<knome> bluesabre, ta ta!
<knome> bluesabre, https://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/commit/?id=92c192e112056a872f8edbe63c56cfb5204227f6
<flocculant> !team | akxwi-dave is taking over from now as of now to lead the QA team - and good luck there ;)
<ubottu> akxwi-dave is taking over from now as of now to lead the QA team - and good luck there ;): akxwi-dave, bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<akxwi-dave> Cheers flocculant .. and thanks for everything you have done for the QA team.. You have been a trooper.
<flocculant> so first suggestion :D
<akxwi-dave> get the beers in
<flocculant> Release Canidate is this week - Final Release next week :D
<akxwi-dave> Time to get an email out on the mailing list to remind peeps then I think
<Unit193> So I should consider rebuilding core.
<flocculant> best ask akxwi-dave \o/
<akxwi-dave> flocculant:  s*%^% off   :-)
<flocculant> ha ha 
<Unit193> Arguably, I shouldn't ask anyone, but there was no question mark technically. :3
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: un-adminned myself on -qa
<flocculant> need to also mail the 2 pending people probably :)
<flocculant> Unit193: well yea :D
<knome> akxwi-dave, congrats
<knome> flocculant, ...and thanks for all the work!
#xubuntu-devel 2018-10-10
<flocculant> knome: you've not got rid of me - will still be about for another 18 months at least :p
<flocculant> sorry to disappoint you :)
 * Unit193 hands knome the stabbity stabbity.
<flocculant> ha ha 
<knome> flocculant, nah :)
<knome> isn't a bad idea to thank for work even if people aren't going away :P
<knome> but now.. something completely different eg. "real" work
<akxwi-dave> cheer knome
<knome> :)
<ochosi> humm, since when do we require registered nicks? was there a spam attack i didn't notice?
<Unit193> Since end of August.
<ochosi> interesting
<ochosi> seemingly i was never unidentified since then
<ochosi> thank you, remote bouncer
<Unit193> You were, but netsplit took you out yesterday.
#xubuntu-devel 2018-10-11
<Unit193> !info xubuntu-docs
<ubottu> xubuntu-docs (source: xubuntu-docs): Xubuntu documentation. In component universe, is optional. Version 18.04.1 (bionic), package size 4340 kB, installed size 11786 kB
<Unit193> !info xubuntu-docs cosmic
<ubottu> xubuntu-docs (source: xubuntu-docs): Xubuntu documentation. In component universe, is optional. Version 18.04.1 (cosmic), package size 4340 kB, installed size 11786 kB
<Unit193> That's not good.
<knome> true
<knome> on the bright side, the docs shouldn't mention the release :P
#xubuntu-devel 2018-10-14
<brainwash> bluesabre: new comment in bug 1754872
<ubottu> bug 1754872 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "apt install xubuntu-desktop does not resolve dependencies properly" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1754872
#xubuntu-devel 2019-10-07
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-dict 0.8.3 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-dict-0-8-3-released-tp55997.html (by AndrÃ© Miranda)
<Unit193> Toooooo laaaaaaate.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- Reminder: Next meeting chair is knome
#xubuntu-devel 2019-10-08
<Unit193> bluesabre: Did we want one last meeting before release?  If so, knome has said a few times his schedule is a bit hectic so we'll have to do it without him.
<ochosi> Unit193: i'd be up for that too
<ochosi> you can schedule it at Unit193 / bluesabre friendly time, e.g. 00:00 UTC
<bluesabre> wallpaper uploaded
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: Release xubuntu-artwork 19.10.1 @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/commit/?id=7c1290209da47399b8d7723f8be8a3f05027dca4 (by Sean Davis)
<ochosi>  \o/
<ochosi> just in time
<ochosi> bluesabre: afaict the panel release went through
<bluesabre> ochosi: yup!
<ochosi> awesome sauce, thanks for pushing that in
<flocculant> wallpapers etc are in my updates, panel isn't - but I don't know what version ochosi refers to, I have 4.14.1-0ubuntu1
<Unit193> That's the new one.
<flocculant> okey doke - wonder when I got that then, I've not been upgrading like a loony lately
<Unit193> Hi.
<flocculant> hi :)
<ochosi> oh hi flocculant :)
<flocculant> ochosi: hi :)
<bluesabre> hi flocculant :)
<Unit193> I pingededed you but you never responded. :(
#xubuntu-devel 2019-10-09
<guiverc> i had an issue with an install (1847415)  nvidia related maybe RikMills (#-discuss) : "last thing it seemed to be doing was getting ready to install nvidia drivers :/"
<bluesabre> Unit193: sorry about that, figuring out my own schedule. I think I'm free all day tomorrow and Friday
<bluesabre> Unit193: Looks like everybody is adding experimental zfs support to their seeds... if we do this, would we want it in core? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1843768
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1843768 in ubuntu-mate-meta (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Ubiquity with zfs install option" [Medium,Fix released]
<Unit193> bluesabre: Hah, that was just a reminder really.  I honestly figured you'd be too swamped with stuff to be able to do so.
<bluesabre> Unit193: I'll be adding zfs support to our seed tonight to follow the rest of the flavors.
<bluesabre> thankfully, we're in the loop this time, unlike when every flavor shipped with minimal install and we didn't know about it :)
<bluesabre> Unit193: what time are you available on Friday (afternoon/evening)? I'll probably schedule the earliest to try to make it work for the rest of the team
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-seed:: Add support for Ubiquity ZFS installation option (LP: #1843768) @ http://git.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/xubuntu/commit/?id=a39f0dc69b5fec2c3966a5e5961479bc7f0d6a24 (by Sean Davis)
<Eickmeyer> bluesabre: What are your thoughts on Bug 1846665 ?
<ubottu> bug 1846665 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Please include 'fcitx-table-cangjie3' by default in Xubuntu and Ubuntu Studio" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1846665
<bluesabre> Eickmeyer: are any of the other flavors seeding it? Don't see anything in rdepends
<bluesabre> I'd rather not lead the charge on that :D
<Eickmeyer> same here, that's why I marked it as opinion for Studio.
<Eickmeyer> bluesabre: Marked it as opinion for xubuntu-meta and invalid for fcitx-table-extra (since it's simply not a bug in that package).
<bluesabre> Eickmeyer: thanks
<bluesabre> Time to step away and do work work, be back tomorrow
#xubuntu-devel 2019-10-10
<Unit193> I mean, we don't ship fcitx at all.
#xubuntu-devel 2019-10-11
<knome> so... i haven't really done much moderating on the mailing lists lately, maybe i should drop myself from the owners list as well :|
<Unit193> I mean, all I do is go through the emails via listadmin and delete spam...
<knome> yeah.
<knome> a mail about this and some other things will follow
<knome> don't be afraid, still not going away for good
<knome> trying to balance the involvement level
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Seed linux-restricted-modules for cloud kernel variants. @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=8e512b3f9b9104f0da2c123c93b90ac7b0b23556 (by Adam Conrad)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Remove obsolete reference to linux-gke. @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=a80e1e61c0840c9086afc90b9ae7e75f40bd65d6 (by Adam Conrad)
#xubuntu-devel 2019-10-12
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-seed:: Move ZFS from core to live. @ http://git.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/xubuntu/commit/?id=73dc1d4c754d58c03acf8f5f6734206219a10cb5 (by Adam Conrad)
<bluesabre> Cool
<ochosi> heya bluesabre 
<bluesabre> Hey ochosi
<ochosi> way to go sneaking in zfs support last minute :)
<bluesabre> The flavors all figured it out in the last week, just tagging along
<ochosi> sure, still, nice of you to take the time
<ochosi> i know you're busy
<bluesabre> Yeah, largely getting back in the Linux groove, just had a few more things the last few days
<bluesabre> Planning a meeting Monday around my time
<bluesabre> Can you stay up late? :)
<ochosi> uh, monday may be the only bad night...
<ochosi> have an interview on tuesday
<ochosi> even today/now would be better :)
<ochosi> Unit193 - you around? :)
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> dang
<ochosi> that usually works
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> bluesabre: got any recommendations for a good screen capturing app?
<bluesabre> ochosi: kazam is good for video
<bluesabre> ochosi: Peek captures an animated gif
<ochosi> that latter one i tried, but it segfaults (doublefree) when it tries to save the gif
<ochosi> an animated gif would have been ideal
<bluesabre> bummer
<bluesabre> I think there's a few fullscreen recording extensions for chrome
<ochosi> i'll see if i can get any of the others to work, maybe kazaam
<ochosi> simplescreenrecorder oddly also failed
<ochosi> "something went wrong during the initialization"
<ochosi> quite the error message :)
<bluesabre> That sounds like a gst error
<ochosi> possible, yeah
<ochosi> i wanted to set up everything from scratch with 19.10 anyway
<ochosi> i've produced quite the franken-system here, with lots of xfce compiled from git master while working on 4.14
<bluesabre> I just got a new computer and have been setting it up today with 19.10
<ochosi> noice
<ochosi> haha, so kazaam worked
<ochosi> i mean it produced a 150mb avi for a few secs, but who cares
<ochosi> but the cool part is: it included part of the red rectangle it uses to show where it's recording, just somewhere in the middle of the recording :'D
<ochosi> and the video capturing doesn't seem to be very smooth
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> ochosi: Howdy.
<ochosi> oh there you go ::)
<ochosi> bluesabre: so, wanna do it now..? 
<bluesabre> oh, I've got time for a quick one, sure :)
<bluesabre> #startmeeting Xubuntu Community Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Sat Oct 12 21:58:35 2019 UTC.  The chair is bluesabre. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<bluesabre> Surprise!
<bluesabre> !team | anybody around for a quick meeting?
<ubottu> anybody around for a quick meeting?: team is akxwi-dave, bluesabre, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<bluesabre> #chair ochosi
<meetingology> Current chairs: bluesabre ochosi
<bluesabre> #chair Unit193
<meetingology> Current chairs: Unit193 bluesabre ochosi
<ochosi> new motto: "better to have an impromptu meeting with a few people than no meetings at all"
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> Works for me
<bluesabre> #topic Open action items
<bluesabre> #done bluesabre to replace light-locker with xfce4-screensaver in eoan
<ochosi> noice
<bluesabre> #done bluesabre to mail the mailing list to discuss additional keyboard shortcuts
<bluesabre> #done bluesabre to mail the team regarding the GTK styles in GIMP (noting GTK used to be default)
<bluesabre> #done bluesabre to email a team vote for color emoji support in Xubuntu
<bluesabre> never got to it: bluesabre to work on improving "starting point" documentation for dev/QA
<bluesabre> never got to it: bluesabre to reach out to other flavors to improve shared documentation
<ochosi> i guess dev docs could be an upstream topic
<ochosi> at least i wouldn't duplicate the effort
<ochosi> and upstream could really use some time spent on that, and then we could simply link to it
<bluesabre> Yeah
<bluesabre> GIMP: GTK theme, got +4 / -0
<bluesabre> Color emoji: +3 / -1
<bluesabre> Keyboard shortcuts: Added Super+L for locking, Super+D for show desktop
<bluesabre> #topic Updates and announcements
<bluesabre> ochosi: Definitely in favor for upstream docs
<ochosi> i guess we got both 4.14 patch releases (settings, panel) into eoan?
<bluesabre> ochosi: yeah, pretty sure
<bluesabre> !info xfce4-settings eoan
<ochosi> that's pretty neat
<ubottu> xfce4-settings (source: xfce4-settings): graphical application for managing Xfce settings. In component universe, is optional. Version 4.14.1-1ubuntu1 (eoan), package size 565 kB, installed size 3535 kB
<bluesabre> !info xfce4-panel eoan
<ubottu> xfce4-panel (source: xfce4-panel): panel for Xfce4 desktop environment. In component universe, is optional. Version 4.14.1-0ubuntu1 (eoan), package size 623 kB, installed size 3599 kB
<ochosi> i think i was the only one doing patch releases so far
<ochosi> so that should be it
<bluesabre> #info Xfce 4.14 released, available in 19.10
<bluesabre> #info Root ZFS installation now available with the 19.10 daily image
<bluesabre> I don't think I have any other announcements
<ochosi> me neither
<ochosi> i guess we won't push any further patch releases of 4.14 into eoan
<bluesabre> #info 19.10 to be released this coming Thursday (10/17), let's test it this week!
<bluesabre> Yeah, at least without them being SRU
<ochosi> unless they fix something critical which has yet to be discovered (4.14 is going suprisingly smooth in terms of critical bug reports)
<bluesabre> Indeed, we did a good job with our years of slower-pace development and 6 months of rapid development ;)
<ochosi> haha
<bluesabre> So with no other announcements...
<ochosi> that may be the new methodology to supersede "agile" :D
<bluesabre> #topic Discussion
<bluesabre> It's been a pretty quiet development cycle on the Xubuntu side of things
<ochosi> yeah, as long as you ignore upstream efforts
<ochosi> my time was pretty bound by that
<bluesabre> Same, was pretty on it with Xfce up until September, then I was on personal stuff for a month
<bluesabre> knome: for the record, I am a fan of the new wallpaper (as usual). Dig the colors!
<bluesabre> I think we'll need to dig in and do a good round of planning in the next couple weeks, 20.04 is an LTS
<ochosi> indeed
<ochosi> although tbh i wouldn't change much about the 4.14 stuff
<bluesabre> There's probably a few upstream changes we should bring down, like the pathbar
<ochosi> pathbar?
<bluesabre> in thunar
<bluesabre> Instead of text entry
<ochosi> oh dear
<bluesabre> Not sure what other goodies there were yet :D
<ochosi> i thought there was only that one now
<ochosi> doesn't make much sense to me to keep both around tbh
<bluesabre> Yeah
<bluesabre> This is the default, https://imgur.com/itmSy7N.png
<ochosi> meh
<ochosi> ok, yeah, we should for sure switch
<bluesabre> Otherwise, probably lots of papercut bugs to fix
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> tbh we could review some apps again
<ochosi> i'd still like to get rid of gnome software for the fact that it keeps running in the background
<ochosi> but i guess there is still no alternative to it
<bluesabre> It gets a little bit better each cycle, but yeah... it's still not particularly great (and not up to where software-center was)
<Unit193> Still can't really find things, isn't so good in general.
<ochosi> yeah, i also have to agree with that
<ochosi> i've just gotten better at using apt since then
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> Oh, I don't have it installed, I just get to see "I removed 'mail' in software center and now Xubuntu doesn't start, what happened?" in #xubuntu.
<ochosi> lol
<bluesabre> That should be fixed now, but not for some of the active releases
<bluesabre> Exo 0.12.3
<bluesabre> !info exo-utils bionic
<ubottu> exo-utils (source: exo): Utility files for libexo. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.12.2-0ubuntu0.18.04.1 (bionic), package size 45 kB, installed size 162 kB
<bluesabre> !info exo-utils cosmic
<ubottu> exo-utils (source: exo): Utility files for libexo. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.12.2-1 (cosmic), package size 45 kB, installed size 162 kB
<bluesabre> !info exo-utils disco
<ubottu> exo-utils (source: exo): Utility files for libexo. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.12.4-1 (disco), package size 45 kB, installed size 180 kB
<bluesabre> well
<bluesabre> So, disco users are happy
<ochosi> disco dancers too
<bluesabre> So, anything more to discuss for now?
<ochosi> upstream we don't care enough about application metadata, that's also an area to improve...
<ochosi> but not much we can do downstream imo
<ochosi> no, i think for eoan we're fine
<ochosi> we should probably schedule a meeting for e+1 soonish
<bluesabre> Yeah, was thinking about getting one set up the following week
<bluesabre> So it begins...
<bluesabre> > Builds: Xubuntu Desktop amd64 [Eoan Final] (20191012) has been added
<ochosi> i'll be afk the last week of october
<ochosi> just fyi
<bluesabre> alrighty
<bluesabre> #topic Schedule next meeting
<bluesabre> ochosi: want to take it, or should I just run with it :)
<ochosi> i
<ochosi> i'd say run with it
<ochosi> since i almost scheduled the meeting tonight ;)
<bluesabre> lol
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 19.10 - amd64 - amd64 built.
<bluesabre> #action bluesabre to schedule next meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre to schedule next meeting
<bluesabre> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Sat Oct 12 22:29:41 2019 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2019/xubuntu-devel.2019-10-12-21.58.moin.txt
<ochosi> domo arigato
<bluesabre> thanks ochosi Unit193 
<Unit193> Heh, I was hardly here. \o/
<ochosi> yeah, but what would we have done without you?
<bluesabre> Not had a meeting
<bluesabre> ;)
<ochosi> indeed
<Unit193> Dang, that zfs stuff bumped the size by 40M.
<ochosi> ouch
<Unit193> 'Core' is now 800M
<Unit193> As compared to Disco, at 736M.
#xubuntu-devel 2019-10-13
<bluesabre> ooh
<bluesabre> oof
<Unit193> Hmm?
<bluesabre> The zfs size bump
<Unit193> Ah.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 19.10 - amd64 - amd64 built.
<Unit193> Heh, with the meta change that was dropped.  I suppose zfs is a selling point and I should ensure that gets added.
<Unit193> Hrm, wonder what is pulling in build-essential now..
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 19.10 - amd64 - amd64 built.
