#launchpad-yellow 2011-06-06
<gary_poster> bac danilos gmb, kanban now, call in 3
<gmb> k
<bac> ok
<gary_poster> danilos, thank you for the good review.  fwiw, the reason why I liked the many functions inside the gigantor JS function is that it lets you bind local variable *identities* cleanly and without fuss (specifically, the "overlay" var, which changes when you click it since I recreate the overlay each time).
<gary_poster> I have a couple of alternate approaches in mind, and I'll pursue them since I know what you say has merit, but it will be more annoying.  Maybe I can make them not much more annoying, let's see.
<danilos> gary_poster, I know, but I specifically highlighted those functions which I don't see using the overlay variable
<danilos> well, parts of the code if not functions :)
<gary_poster> danilos, they do, because they use make_actions, which needs to know the overlay (for the clean up function if nothing else)
<danilos> gary_poster, oh, right
<gary_poster> So, like I said, there are alternate approaches
<danilos> gary_poster, sure, there are plenty of them; I am not highly opposed to you landing as is, fixing other problems (since this might require more work that you don't want to invest right now)
<gary_poster> danilos, OK, I'll look into that for a bit and see what I can do, and punt if I don't see something I like.  Let's talk about the thing I'm more worried about: the UI issues
<danilos> gary_poster, right
<gary_poster> danilos, I think a <ul> is a good idea
<gary_poster> Want me to try that, and see what your reaction is?
<danilos> gary_poster, right, but that wouldn't work well with edit icons imho
<gary_poster> Yeah
<danilos> gary_poster, sure thing if you feel like that might work
<gary_poster> I thought that's what you were suggesting though
<danilos> gary_poster, I was, but then I am pretty sure you'd have to kill edit icons
<gary_poster> because it would be dot-image-words?
<danilos> yeah
<danilos> maybe move the edit icon to the end, though there's probably no ready CSS class for that
<danilos> 'ready' == 'already made' :)
<gary_poster> no, there's not, and it's another precedent-breaking thing--maybe more problematic
<danilos> true
<danilos> gary_poster, it might be worthwhile to check if huw or mrevell have any opinion/suggestion
<danilos> mrevell, even though not a UI designer, can sometimes come up with good ideas as well :)
<gary_poster> danilos, yeah.  ok, I'll make a screen shot and try him
<danilos> cool, thanks
<gary_poster> thank you!
 * bac found an interesting Critical bug...that i likely caused.  guess i should claim it.
<gary_poster> heh
<bac> it's amazing how many wrapper frameworks exist for authenticating lplib.  just discovered lpltk.  if only we'd provided 'login_with' from the beginning...
<gary_poster> yeah :-/
<gary_poster> danilos, I sent off a note to mrevell with some screenshots; I'll let you know what he has to say.
<gary_poster> I have another question about the review, while I'm waiting.  You say this about BugSubscriptionPortletView.initialize:
<gary_poster> I find this interesting.  What happens with eg. LIFECYCLE duplicate subscription? How are we to show that in the UI?  Should my code include the current user among the 'Other subscribers' if they have a duplicate subscription?
<gary_poster> If the user has a LIFECYCLE duplicate subscription, it will simply show at the top, "You have subscriptions that may cause you to receive notifications, but you are not directly subscribed to this bug's notifications."  Then they can click on "Edit bug mail" to see details, as usual.
<gary_poster> This seems consistent and OK with me--why should we have to tell people about duplicate subscription details here, but not the details of other subscriptions, like assignee or all the other variants?
<gary_poster> Because of that, my answer to your last question is "no".  :-)
<gary_poster> Thoughts?
<gary_poster> biab
<gary_poster> (been back for quite awhile fwiw, in case you wre waiting forme danilos :-P )
<gary_poster> CHR!
<gary_poster> anyone remember the name of the project we are supposed to use when we are just trying to make a bug go away?  I have searched for "nothing" "none" and "empty" and have not found it.  bac, do you remember?
<bac> null
<bac> ?
<bac> https://launchpad.net/null
<gary_poster> ah-ha, yes, thanks bac
<gary_poster> gmb, danilos, I just asked deryck why the following feedback ticket has no reply on it for the entire last week while the poor guy was emailing us repeatedly, but I also want to ask you if you had seen it when you looked at RTs this morning?
<gary_poster> https://support.one.ubuntu.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=2120
<gary_poster> It seems like I always have a lot of spam RTs to delete too
<gmb> gary_poster: I completely forgot to check the RT queue this morning; my bad - I got sidetracked by needing to get an RC for my branch.
<gary_poster> gmb, understood
<danilos> gary_poster, sorry, got completely immersed in my branches and haven't noticed the pings
<danilos> gary_poster, going through your questions in order :)
<danilos> gary_poster, the problem with *your* duplicate subscription in "Other subscribers" is that, well, it's not "other" but yours :)
<gary_poster> danilos, gotcha, I think: yes, my intent was that the current user would not be listed in "Other subscribers" anywhere: people should go to "Edit my bugs" for that
<danilos> gary_poster, and it's also the only other one where you can have a specific bug_notification_level for that particular bug (i.e. it applies just as much as a direct subscription does; unlike eg. bug supervisor or product owner: for assignee, we make a direct subscription)
<gary_poster> structural subscriptions can also have a level danilos
<danilos> gary_poster, right, so how is the current user to know that they do have a subscription to a duplicate unless they go to the "edit bug mail" page?
<danilos> gary_poster, right, but that's not "for that particular bug"
<gary_poster> danilos, not following.  Wanna call?
<danilos> gary_poster, yep
<gary_poster> When's your EoD anyway? :-)
<danilos> gary_poster, yesterday? :)
<gary_poster> heh
<danilos> gary_poster, let's chat now about this and then I'll be EoDing soon :)
<gary_poster> heh, ok
<gary_poster> https://dev.launchpad.net/MaintenanceRotationSchedule
<gary_poster> lunching
<bac> why can i never remember that
<bac> AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'makefile'
<bac> reported from launchpadlib means:
<bac> Apache is not running
<bac> ?
<bac> it's so damned obvious
<bac> gary_poster: argh!  look at this logo: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2011/06/stevejobswwdc2011liveblogkeynote0425.jpg
<gary_poster> bac, heh, yeah that looks prettttty familiar
<bac> geez
#launchpad-yellow 2011-06-07
<gary_poster> benji and bac, hi.  are either of you looking for a bug to tackle?
<bac> gary_poster: i will be shortly
<gary_poster> bac, cool.  benjim welcome to the other channel :-P
<benji> gary_poster: tag, you're it
<gary_poster> :-)
<benji> :P
<gary_poster> bac, benji, just forwarded you an email
 * bac just made a rule to zap vcs-import mail and can see clearly again
<gary_poster> heh
<gary_poster> good idea
<benji> yeah, my rule got 400+ messages when I made it; that seems like something we should fix
<gary_poster> gmb, for bug 772609, question for the call lest I forget: what does status of bug 772609 mean to deployment?  Is it worthwhile talking about whether we can make the fix on top of the branches Danilo and I are working on for after the db deployment?
<gary_poster> bac benji danilos gmb: kanban now, call really close to now
<gmb> gary_poster: The fix has been rolled back and we can happily make the fix on top of yours and Danilo's branches.
<gary_poster> ok cool
<gary_poster> cause I think I might have ripped out some or all of the bits you are talking about in the most recent traceback
<gmb> Ah, okay.
<gary_poster> that Skype experience was weird
<gary_poster> benji, there's actually a bug number in there
<gmb> Nice, skype won't let me sign in...
<gary_poster> hmmmmm....
<gary_poster> Skype is not happy....
 * gmb restarts skype
<benji> yeah, my skype isjust spinning
<gmb> Glad it's not just me...
<gary_poster> I can't log on now...
<gary_poster> uh, danilo, how's the mumble going :-D
<bac> my skype launched but says none of my contacts are online
<gary_poster> I wonder how it would work on Windows :-P
<gary_poster> bac benji danilos gmb, everyone join me on mumble who can, please
 * benji installs mumble
 * danilos tries and hopes for the best
<gary_poster> meh
<bac> ok.  haven't mumbled since upgrading to natty
<danilos> gary_poster, nope, it's blocked
<gary_poster> I see danilos, but he is muted and deafened
<danilos> gary_poster, what it used to do was kill my entire audio stack until I reboot (maybe playing with unloading/loading modules might work, but I never spent time to debug that)
<danilos> gary_poster, hum, let me try something
<danilos> nope, it seems to have problems with localized sound card names that it seems to get from pulseaudio
<gary_poster> benji, (1) how goes mumble, (2) did you happen to run test suite with your "rip out feature flag" branch?
<benji> "The remote host closed the connection."
<benji> 2) I ran -m lp.bugs
<gary_poster> danilos we can hear you
<benji> mumble is not connecting for me
<bac> empathy?
<gary_poster> benji, try skype again?
<bac> i think you can do empathy voice-only calls but i've not tried
<gary_poster> ok
<bac> if not i have some electrical tape i can put over my camera
<gary_poster> lol
<benji> trying skype
<gary_poster> k
<benji> working on email incedent too
<gary_poster> benji, well...that's one of the things I want to talk to you about :-)
<benji> gary_poster: if need be we can have a POTS call
<gary_poster> benji...that's unthinkable!
<benji> heh
<gary_poster> benji, I'm logged into Skype, but I'm guessing either you can't, or they have some weird split thing going on.
<benji> mine keeps spinning like it's trying to connect
<danilos> my skype seems to be fine, and I can see Gary and gmb
<danilos> though, I haven't logged off since yesterday
<gary_poster> I see you but that's it
<gary_poster> I've logged on and off several times, and for awhile there was noone at all
<danilos> interesting, have you tried calling someone even if they appear offline?
<gary_poster> not lately
<gary_poster> danilos, when you get a chance, would you please take a look at https://devpad.canonical.com/~gary/mockup.png and give me your opinion?  I prefer B and B-1 for consistency with the structural subscription options.  Option A variants are slightly more usable because of fewer clicks, but then my original was even easier in that regard.  I'll ask mrevell too.
<gary_poster> anyone else is welcome to chime in too, btw :-)
 * danilos looks
<benji> gary_poster: I think the A family is slightly better because I think it'll be easier for people to choose from a linear set of options instead of a branching set (i.e., the check box)
<gary_poster> benji, I agree about usability, what about consistency?
<danilos> gary_poster, I kind of like the explicit "or" in B-1 combined with a linear set of options (i.e. in A-1 "Remove your subscription" doesn't seem distinct enough)
<gary_poster> danilos, A-3?
<danilos> gary_poster, right, it's a very wide image, haven't noticed it so far :)
<gary_poster> :-)
<gary_poster> danilos, the only diff is that A-3 has the current option as a radio button
<gary_poster> while A-1 has the current option as text
<benji> gary_poster: Isn't option A consistent with how we ask about direct subscriptions?
<gary_poster> A-3 seems the best of the A-line
<benji> I don't think we need the "or"; all of them are "or" options
<danilos> gary_poster, A-3 also has the separation between "unsubscribe" and "choose level" options, no?
<danilos> benji, but they are clearly actions of the distinct nature, and one might simply be looking for "unsubscribe"
<gary_poster> danilos, yeah, sorry, I meant, A-1 with "or" is still different than A-3 because of the radio button thing
<danilos> not distinct per se, but it kind of feels as if unsubscribe is the most common action
<gary_poster> benji is arguing for the A line I think, not A-1 in particular
<danilos> gary_poster, right, understood
<danilos> gary_poster, fwiw, I don't mind the B-1 either, I just find it a bit confusing and hard to clearly present, but then there's the consistency argument
<danilos> == hard to clearly present available options
<gary_poster> benji, what I have right now in the branch under review (and that is regarded as confusing) is consistent with "edit your bugs": action links.  I can put up a mockup in case inspiration might strike.  Option B is consistent with structural subscription options.  option A I'd argue is consistent with not much :-)
<danilos> gary_poster, hehe, A is consistent with static +subscribe page :) not that it's relevant
<gary_poster> danilos, lol :-P
<danilos> gary_poster, I think the only problem I have with B-1 is that I'd prefer the checkbox to read "Exclude comments" if the choice above it is "everything"
<benji> maybe it's because I haven't had my coffee yet, but option A looks a lot like what I see if I visit a bug and click "Subscribe" (the words are a little different and the options are in a different order, but that's fixable)
<gary_poster> benji, right, but that's what we are replacing :-)
<gary_poster> benji, fwiw: https://devpad.canonical.com/~gary/PastedGraphic-1.png https://devpad.canonical.com/~gary/PastedGraphic-2.png
<benji> well then, that changes things :)
<danilos> benji, because that's coming from the static +subscribe page by loading the form using ajax
<danilos> gary_poster, benji: I think we should just agree that B-3 is to everybody's taste and go with that
<gary_poster> danilos: exclude comments: yeah, that's a "too many cooks" issue we have from structural subscriptions.  Jono wanted the checkbox as it is there too, because he wants checkboxes to be positive choices, not exclusions
<gary_poster> danilos: +1 :-)
<benji> I really like the links-as-actions approach here, especially PastedGraphic-2.
<gary_poster> heh, I did too :-P
<gary_poster> danilos was confused though
<gary_poster> and Huw agrees that radio buttons should rule the world :-)
<gary_poster> (not so strongly that we couldn't override, I think, but still)
<gary_poster> The link approach is also faster to use, as danilo pointed out
<gary_poster> and it is consistent with "edit your bugs"
<gary_poster> Edit bug mail, I mean
<danilos> benji, radio boxes clearly indicate to anyone who's been using computer UIs that there's one selected option of all the potential choices
<danilos> benji, for instance, in PastedGraphic-2, if I didn't know the underlying implementation details, I don't think I'd ever have guessed that the middle text indicates the selected option
<danilos> gary_poster, benji: perhaps it'd be much better if the "choice" (plain text) was moved to the top
<gary_poster> That would be easy to do, and I think an improvement.
<gary_poster> (I had it where it is so you could easily see relative subscription levels)
<danilos> gary_poster, right, so my preferences would be A-3, B-1 and then that :) we know which one is the simplest to implement ;)
<gary_poster> heh
<gary_poster> benji, do you care to do a ranking?
<benji> gary_poster: A-1, A-2, A, B, A-3, B-3, B-2
<benji> (my guess as to how they will perform in user testing from best to worst))
<gary_poster> benji, where does PastedGraphic-2 fit into that?
<benji> hmm...
<gary_poster> and did you really mean B-3, the absent choice? :-)
<danilos> yeah, you can't rank it that low!
<gary_poster> Or do the last two have an off-by-one error
<benji> gary_poster: fixed ranking: PastedGraphic-2, A-1, A-2, A, B, A-3, B-2, B-1
<gary_poster> :-) ok got it, thanks
<gary_poster> based on that, you two average out to me doing nothing at all!  woo hoo!  ;-)
<gary_poster> I'll mention this to mrevell.  I'm inclined to do the "move the text to the top of PastedGraphic-2 and move on" as you might expect.
<bac> hi gary_poster -- looking at the MP mbp did (https://code.launchpad.net/~mbp/launchpad/788874-mail-oops/+merge/63343) i'm not sure why it was rejected.  i think lifeless was wrong in his assessment.
<bac> gary_poster: well, i *do* understand why you rejected it...i just think it is a viable solution afterall
<gary_poster> bac, ok.  yeah, I was just going on the conversation.  You are the engineer on it, and I'm happy for you to make a call.  I'm also happy to dig into it if you'd like me to.
<bac> gary_poster: there have been other suggested actions to take but i think martin's approach makes sense
<gary_poster> CHR!
<bac> gary_poster: have you been running the lp2kanban script?  i never see my cards updated.  am i doing something wrong?
<gary_poster> bac, no, I haven't. :-P  benji said I had to change something or other in order to point to the proper board, and while I'm sure that is super easy, it has kept me from pursuing it yet.  Sorry. :-(  I'll get on it.
<benji> gary_poster: my mumble problems look like a networking problem; I did a packet capture and see lots of retransmissions and duplicate ACKs
<bac> gary_poster: was just curious
<gary_poster> beji, weird
<gary_poster> bac, cool
<gary_poster> ok, chr done
<gary_poster> running to anniversary lunch :-)
<gary_poster> biab
 * danilos -> out
<bac> gary_poster: you have a moment to do an inflight sanity check / pre-review?
<gary_poster> bac, heh, sure
<bac> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/621121/
<bac> it should be pretty much complete....modulo me not understanding option 1 mbp presented in the bug
<gary_poster> k
<bac> i'd like to get your interpretation of his #1 and robert's response
<gary_poster> k, lemme get bug up
<gary_poster> bac, I understand poolie's option 1 by omitting ", or the in-application limit up,".  I'm guessing that is a mistake.
<bac> ah, so unify them at 10MB or 50MB
<gary_poster> yeah
<bac> ok, so that is outside the scope of this bug fix...and our app should be robust enough to live in a messed up world like we currently have
<bac> that sounded more philosophical than i intended.
<gary_poster> bac, one thought I had so far was wondering about 64K as a good default (maybe bigger), and whether it ought to be implemented in terms lpconfig
<gary_poster> :-)
<gary_poster> agree, though
<gary_poster> bac, my question is a "wondering," not an opinion
<bac> actually for returning  a message that caused an OOPS i think 64K should be sufficient
<bac> and i can easily make it a config variable though i don't know what it buys us since we'd not want to tune it across environments
<gary_poster> in doc, "outgoing message will be too big" I'd maybe ike a parenthetical ref to this bug, or the incident, or at least an explanation of what is actually enforcing our limit
<bac> i mean lp.dev vs production
<gary_poster> config var: only to change quickly
<bac> ah, right, they are handled in a different more easily deployed branch.  i always forget that
<bac> OK, well if you think the branch is sound i'll make that change and get it rolling
<gary_poster> 64K sufficient: I have no idea...I don't have a clear idea of all the ways this is used tbh
<bac> thanks for the thoughts
<gary_poster> but I'm happy to go along with it
<gary_poster> sure, np.  it looks good to me!  thank you
<benji> gary_poster: have we told whomever is doing this DB deploy to turn on the feature flags for everyone after the deploy?
<gary_poster> benji, robert knows, and he also wants to wait an hour even with the email, which was fine w/me
<gary_poster> even with email change I mean
<gary_poster> you know, we could have made +subscriptions redirect to the main page if the feature flag was off
<benji> cool; in that case I'll send him a pointer to the "what to do to turn off the message" wiki page
<gary_poster> cool thanks
<benji> yeah, that would have been good, if we'd thought of it
 * benji does CHR.
<bac> gary_poster: is there a way to QA email processing before it hits production?
<gary_poster> bac, was
<gary_poster> or even, yes
<gary_poster> looking
<gary_poster> we talked about it in our weekly notes
<gary_poster> bac, oh, you mean *incoming* processing
<gary_poster> I suspect there is
<bac> yeah
<gary_poster> I think it is something like this
<bac> gary_poster: can you do the actual review for https://code.launchpad.net/~bac/launchpad/bug-788874/+merge/63750 ?
<gary_poster> 1) find something on production that you could email to
<gary_poster> sure
<gary_poster> make sure that it is also on staging
<gary_poster> convert the prod address
<gary_poster> by adding staging. at the start
<gary_poster> (of domain of course)
<gary_poster> 2) run the pertinent cronscript with -vv and hope that it is hooked up to give you the detail you need
<gary_poster> (the one we used for our last feature was)
<gary_poster> The End
<gary_poster> bac, why don't we need code to rip out the original message?  I only see where we add the truncated one, not where we delete the original
<bac> delete from where?
<bac> you'll note i delete it from the mailbox before doing the send-oops
<bac> line 139
<bac> gary_poster: ^^
<gary_poster> bac, when we assemble the message to send, leading up to line 62 of diff
<bac> line 60 redefines original_msg to be the truncated version
 * bac admits that is a little confusing
<gary_poster> oh, duh, got it
<gary_poster> renaming truncated_msg to truncated_msg_str *might* have helped me.
<gary_poster> but probably not :-P
<gary_poster> approved bac
<bac> good idea
<bac> thanks
<gary_poster> np
<gary_poster> benji, you around?
<benji> gary_poster: yep
<gary_poster> hey
<gary_poster> bug 772609
<_mup_> Bug #772609: bug subscription mute link is not shown for membership in a team with a direct or structural subscription <bad-commit-13003> <bad-commit-13154> <bad-commit-13164> <qa-bad> <story-better-bug-notification> <Launchpad itself:Triaged by gmb> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/772609 >
<gary_poster> I take it gmb suggested that you not focus on it right now?
<gary_poster> benji: ^^
<benji> gary_poster: I don't recall a conversation like that.  Oh, I remember, I claimed it in LP and he already had put a card up for it previsouly.
<gary_poster> benji, you are not assigned it in LP either
<gary_poster> you are working on it?
<gary_poster> I need to know fairly quickly--maybe quick Skype call?
<gary_poster> benji ^^
<benji> nope, I unassigned myself and he assigned himself
<gary_poster> oh
<benji> I'm up for a call.
<benji> (but I think that's the extent of my knowleg (sp) on it)
<gary_poster> and you aren't on Skype :-P
<gary_poster> ok
#launchpad-yellow 2011-06-08
<benji> I just watched Jono's lightning talk from UDS, good stuff (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Cxs9OHIBcs#t=0h17m34s).
<gary_poster> i may be a min or two late
<gary_poster> yeah it is good
<gary_poster> bac benji danilos gmb, about to call
<gmb> k
<bac> ok
<gary_poster> danilos skype ping
<danilos> gary_poster, ack
<danilos> gary_poster, I mean, "ready" :)
<benji> http://blog.launchpad.net/notifications/launchpad-read-only-june-8th-22-00-utc
<benji> bac: the lp2kanban script needs at least two things before it can be run regularly: 1) change it to point to the real yellow board -- not the test one (wich might be made a command-line option) and 2) be made to only sync cards marked as syncable
<bac> ok
<benji> bac: for the sync markings, I suggest that any card with a title consisting only of "sync" be synced, and then have something like "Automatically synced to LP" added to the description which is also a marker to tell the script to sync a card
<benji> that way it's easy to get a new synced card started, easy to see which ones are synced, and easy to stop one from being synced
<bac> benji: ok.  perhaps  "sync: " prefix on the title, so you can enter something initially meaningful to begin with
<bac> benji: is the buildout.cfg being used?
<benji> that's fine with me; personally I like the syncing because I don't have to enter something initially meaningful
<benji> yep
<bac> benji: how so?  is setup.py referencing it?
<benji> nope, it's the other way around, buildout uses setup.py
<benji> you bootstrap the buildout and then run bin/buildout to build everything
<benji> bac: if you're not familiar with buildout, this should get you started: https://pastebin.canonical.com/48282/
<bac> benji: yeah, i was just about to do that.  :(
<bac> er, :)
<benji> bac: actually, that contains an error, use this one https://pastebin.canonical.com/48283/
<benji> cool
<bac> actually that one has an error too.
<bac> benji: would it be horrible to add bootstrap.py to our branch?
<benji> bac: I don't like it (not DRY enough for me), but I'm only -0 so feel free.
<bac> benji: ok.  i'll add a README then
<benji> cool
 * gary_poster thinks ease-of-use trumps DRY :-P
<benji> well, since you only have to run bootstrap once per computer per version of python, the inconvienience is pretty low and boostrap has already changed once requiring everyone who copied it to update their copies; maybe that just grates on me more than others
<bac> benji: wouldn't that be once per repository?
<bac> i mean it creates a local bin/buildout only, right?
<benji> right, but you can use that (via "bin/buildout bootstrap") to boostrap other projects
<bac> benji: so i'm getting auth errors.  can you authenticate with leankit?
<benji> bac: yep, it works for me, remember that your user name is your email address
<bac> benji: yeah, that's what i'm using
<benji> hmm, it should work then, let me try it
<benji> bac: with the bot user/pass I got "urllib2.HTTPError: HTTP Error 401: basic auth failed"
<bac> yes
<bac> that's what i get with my credentials
<bac> are we not authorized for that test board?
<bac> no, that makes no sense, as i can use the web ui to make a card
<benji> I've run it with the bot creds against both boards.
<benji> bac: I did a packet dump and found that the auth headers aren't being sent to the kanban board; I'm trying to figure out why now
<bac> benji: but it only fails on the get_card for some bugs.  retrieving the board works
<benji> for me the very first request (for the board) fails
<benji> oh, and then urllib2 reissues the request with auth headers
 * benji continues reading the packet dump
<bac> benji: i get the board, see 5 lookup errors, and then the rest throw the auth error
<benji> bac: we need to point it at the real board (see the comments at the top of the file), but it shouldn't be run yet because it will update any card with an external ID (bug number)
<benji> when I do that the auth errors go away
<bac> i'll try with the call to update_card commented out
<gary_poster> benji, can I tell flacoste that, unless he objects, you are willing to give a presentation tentatively titled "My three days trying to make coffescript and LP friends"? :-)  Given that I let you have three days to do it, and a day to make the presentation?  The goal would be to intro coffescript, advocate it or not depending on your experience, and show how it might work in LP.
<benji> gary_poster: that sounds like an excellent plan
<gary_poster> cool
<bac> benji: running against the real board with updating turned off, i can get the board, see one lookup failure, and then the rest are auth errors.
<benji> hmm, let me try
<benji> yeah, I get the same thing here
<gary_poster> CHR!
<gary_poster> danilos, should I assign this to you, or to translation coordinatiors, or...?
<gary_poster> https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/127227
<danilos> gary_poster, don't assign it to anyone, especially with the end of the week near :)
<gary_poster> danilos, ?
<gary_poster> you mean, let deryck deal with it? :-)
<danilos> gary_poster, well, if it doesn't get sorted out before the end of the week (considering the guy has not really provided anything but said "Really? Are you sure?"), I don't want to be tied into it for the next week :)
<danilos> gary_poster, and deryck has henninge as well ;)
<danilos> anyway, out
<gary_poster> danilos, ack :-)
<gary_poster> bye
<gary_poster> bac, is it possible to merge teams?
<bac> yes
<gary_poster> bac, can the team owner do it?  I don't see it on https://launchpad.net/~yellow
<gary_poster> (this is for a LP question on CHR)
<gary_poster> (I also don't see it on https://launchpad.net/~yellow/+edit)
<bac> gary_poster: https://launchpad.net/people
<bac> in the portlet
<gary_poster> bac, got it, thank you.  Who can do this?  Can I ask other users to do it, so that LP verifies that everyone has the appropriate privileges and expectations?  Does a person need to have admin privs in both teams?  Or maybe it just sends emails to the two teams to verify?
<bac> gary_poster: i'm unsure of the details.  i can look into it later if you want.  i'm trying to get that big email QA done now per lifeless' request
<gary_poster> bac, ack, thanks, I'll leave you alone
<bac> gary_poster: glad to help in a bit
<gary_poster> bac, np, I'm just going to do it.  I think it's ok in this case
<benji> bac: any luck with the auth errors? (none here)
<bac> benji: no, i got pulled away
<bac> i never saw anything other than the same failures
<bac> was going to look at it with wireshark when i have time
<gary_poster> bac, when you do CHR, could you see if you could help this guy, presumably with some DB massaging that you hopefully know better than I?  I filed a bug for what he is encountering, fwiw, which is https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/793670 , but I don't want him to have to wait for us to fix that bug before he can log in.
<_mup_> Bug #793670: User account missing preferred email after suspension/reactivation <oops> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/793670 >
<bac> gary_poster: i will
<gary_poster> thank you
 * gary_poster goes to lunch
<gary_poster> uh, now.
 * bac lunches too
<Ursinha> bac: hi, when you return: qabot is happy and tagging bugs as it should
<Ursinha> bac: what kind of email were you expecting from it?
<bac> hi Ursinha
<bac> usually i get email from qabot saying that a revision is ready to be QA'd
<bac> Ursinha: for that revision i got no email so that's why i asked
<Ursinha> what kind of email exactly? the bug one?
<bac> Ursinha: the one with:
<bac> Fixed in stable r13164 <http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~launchpad-
<bac> pqm/launchpad/stable/revision/13164>.
<bac> ** Tags added: qa-needstesting
<bac> ** Tags removed: qa-ok
<Ursinha> the bug comment
<Ursinha> I see
<bac> Ursinha: ah, that's just regular bug mail...i never paid attentino
<Ursinha> :)
<bac> since it came from 'Launchpad QA bot' i thought the bot was sending it
<bac> nm
<Ursinha> anyway, I got the email about two hours ago
<bac> gary_poster: so have you used 'process-email -vv' on qastaging before?  the output i got was not so helpful:  https://pastebin.canonical.com/48300/
<gary_poster> bac, I have not
<bac> gary_poster: i thought the idea was it would generated a ton of output, allowing you to not have to look at the outbox.
<gary_poster> bac, that's the way the one we used worked, yes
<bac> gary_poster: do you have access to said outbox on qastaging?
<bac> that's TL only right?
<gary_poster> not to my knowledge, but I bet Ursinha does, or matsubara (or they can tell me/us what t do?)
<bac> gary_poster: have you seen https://wiki.canonical.com/Launchpad/FreshLogs
<gary_poster> bac, yes.  It was an email awhile ago too
<bac> it looks promising except a) i'm not sure where to find the logs, b) i don't know my password on devpad to request it.  :)  <i login using ssh credentials only>
<gary_poster> bac, I don't know if we record incoming email in a log.  I can look, though, because I think I know where it would be
<bac> where would it be?
<gary_poster> bac, is this staging orqastaging?
<bac> qa
<gary_poster> I log in with ssh creds only too...
<gary_poster> I've used this though
<bac> gary_poster: my problem is you have to use sudo, which requires you know your actuall password
<bac> i need to get that taken care of
<Ursinha> 14
<gary_poster> bac, /srv/launchpad.net-logs/qastaging/asuka/process-mail.log does not look promising. :-/  I'll see if I can get that fresh log thing runing myself...
<Ursinha> oops
<gary_poster> :-)
<gary_poster> bac, it did not ask me for password
 * gary_poster will ping when he gets the sync ping
<bac> gary_poster: the process-mail.log file has my error logged
<gary_poster> bac,
<gary_poster> 2011-06-08 16:10:43 ERROR   An exception was raised inside the handler:
<gary_poster> http://qastaging.launchpadlibrarian.net/64595659/d3f0de04-91e9-11e0-a552-0014384f8cb2.txt
<gary_poster>  -> http://qastaging.launchpadlibrarian.net/64595660/526FHkQgkQV14M0gC9xbNLHOLfg.txt (Msg <63140D69-7F1D-4C0A-B459-B8877B4FB709@canonical.com> size 11849218 exceeds limit 10485760)
<bac> yep
<gary_poster> cool
<bac> so that is as it should be
<gary_poster> great
<bac> but i need to see the sent email to ensure it was truncated
<bac> Ursinha: can you explain to me how to access the outbound email from qastaging?
<Ursinha> let me find the docs
<Ursinha> bac: if qastaging email is sent to the same mbox that belongs to staging, this might be enough: https://wiki.canonical.com/InformationInfrastructure/OSA/LPHowTo/ConnectToStagingMailbox
<bac> thanks Ursinha
<benji> bac: do you want me to look at the lp2kanban auth problem some more?
<bac> benji: i hope to get back to it shortly.
<bac> hi gary_poster.  in trying to QA that bug i've found the log message and the OOPS but cannot find the outgoing email
<benji> bac and anyone else doing CHR, I sent Matthew Revell a message about the (apparently) Itialian message in the feedback queue
<bac> i've had losas run cronscripts for process-email and send-bug-notification
<gary_poster> bac, I dunno :-/
<bac> thanks benji
<bac> gary_poster: i finally got the password for the staging mailbox, should you need it.
<gary_poster> bac, good to know
<gary_poster> bac, so...
<gary_poster> sorry
<gary_poster> what do you want to do about the qa?  you could ask lifeless
<gary_poster> see if he knows
<gary_poster> or deryck...
<bac> ok
<gary_poster> deryck is sick
<bac> sick and past EOD for him
#launchpad-yellow 2011-06-09
<gary_poster> bac benji danilos: call RSN
<gary_poster> bac benji, should I bother trying to run lp2kanban?
<bac> no
<danilos> gary_poster, ack
<gary_poster> ok
<danilos> gary_poster, btw, can I take gmb's slot for the call perhaps?
<gary_poster> danilos, of course
<danilos> gary_poster, cool, and when is that? :)
<danilos> in 24mins?
<gary_poster> :-) in 54 min
<danilos> ah, ok, sounds good, thanks again
<gary_poster> np
<danilos> gary_poster, btw, I wonder if you remember this: how does one create a view with a logged in user (meaning self.user is set) for testing? all the stuff I tried ("with person_logged_in()", "LaunchpadTestRequest().setPrincipal()" and even "login(email)" have failed for me)
<bac> danilos: a combo of login() and create_initialized_view(..., principal=) should work
<gary_poster> that sounds good to me, danilos.
<danilos> bac, thanks, I was hoping to use the view class instead of the view name, but I am fine with this (I don't want to reinvent create_view)
 * gary_poster needs to take kids to school today.  will step away RSN, back about 10 or 15 min later
 * gary_poster had to make funny faces at baby also
<benji> heh
<danilos> :)
<danilos> still no luck getting self.user to be set in my view :/ not sure what am I doing wrong, but I can't see what am I doing different from some other view tests :/
<gary_poster> danilos, can your force it somehow, by manipulating the request or the bag or something?
<gary_poster> I know that's ugly, and it ought to work, but if you can't figure it out soon, maybe that's reaonable (or maybe doingthat would help you iunderstand what's going wrong?)
<gary_poster> (it ought to work == what you are doing now ought to work)
<danilos> gary_poster, I tried that as well, didn't get far, so I am probably missing something obvious
<gary_poster> gotcha
<gary_poster> dunno :-/  I could look at it with you if you wanted, but I don't have super high confidence that I'd see something you didn't
<gary_poster> danilos, I'm ready when you are.  call me; no rush.
<danilos> gary_poster, calling
<danilos> bac, hi, I am still kind of stuck, do you think you could spare a few minutes to look and maybe figure out something obvious that I am doing wrong?
<bac> danilos: sure, paste it?
<danilos> bac, https://pastebin.canonical.com/48350/
<danilos> bac, that's a test, and when it hits view.subscriber_data_js, self.user is not defined
<gary_poster> benji, so you know, flacoste has given you a full 45 min for your coffeescript presentation,  No pressure. ;-)  https://wiki.canonical.com/Launchpad/Sprints/Thunderdome2011/Agenda#Call%20for%20presentations
<danilos> bac, full branch at lp:~danilo/launchpad/bug-772754-other-subscribers-loading
<gary_poster> I also said we might want to talk about lp2kanban
<benji> heh
<bac> danilos: did you try passing the principal to c_i_v?
<danilos> bac, yeah, nothing changes
<danilos> bac, well, not entirely nothing, self.request.principal is then defined, but self.user is still None
<bac> gary_poster: how much of the thunderdome will be spent with the platform team?  will we go to their plenaries?  or will we just be in the same hotel?
<gary_poster> bac, that's a great question.  My assumption was that we simply were sharing hotels, but that seems unlikely now that you've asked.  Care to ask flacoste and report back to us?
<bac> i would if he were around...
<bac> i will next time i see him
<gary_poster> ok
<danilos> bac, any ideas of what else I could try?
<bac> danilos: i'm looking
<gary_poster> is self.user one of those launchbag things?
<danilos> gary_poster, I don't know, haven't really dug that much
<gary_poster> k
<danilos> and I just created a minimal view and test using exactly the same logic, and it has self.user set :(
<bac> danilos: yeah, look at test_data_person_subscription_user_excluded ... it works and is pretty darned minimal
<danilos> bac, that's a test I am creating, but it doesn't work for me
<danilos> bac, does it work for you?
<bac> danilos: sorry, paste error. i meant test_unsubscribe_link_appears_for_user
<bac> danilos: i think the problem is the assert is outside of the 'with person_logged_in' context
<bac> so at that point no one is logged in.  even though the view was created with a logged in users there isn't one when you evaluate the property
<danilos> bac, yeah, so it seems to me as well, though I am pretty sure I've tried that as well
<bac> your test still fails but for a different reason i think
<danilos> bac, yeah, because I haven't implemented the action yet, thanks, that is it, with all the confusion I wasn't even sure what I tried and when
<bac> np
<danilos> bac, very, very much thankful! really appreciate the time you took to look into it
<bac> danilos: sorry i didn't spot it right away.  those subtle things are hard
<danilos> gary_poster, fwiw, my "full" branch is up at https://code.launchpad.net/~danilo/launchpad/bug-772754-other-subscribers-remove-cruft; still not ready
<danilos> and I've got to run now, talk to you tomorrow all
<gary_poster> danilos, cool.  I'll keep on with other bugs then
<gary_poster> :-)
<gary_poster> bye
 * benji watches his laptop go down in flames as Unity segfaults.
<gary_poster> :-/
<bac> gary_poster: just so you'll know, i'm spending considerable time this morning trying to QA bug 789383
<_mup_> Bug #789383: Oops calling findSimilarBugs api anonymously <api> <bugs> <oops> <qa-needstesting> <Launchpad itself:Fix Committed by bac> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/789383 >
<gary_poster> bac, ok, thanks for heads up
<bac> it works locally but on qastaging it looks like it is redirectly to +login and responding with 503s
<bac> s/redirectly/redirecting
<gary_poster> :-/
<gary_poster> chr...
<benji> ok, I have to reboot again
 * benji hopes Unity feels better now.
<bac> gary_poster: i'm seeing bunches of timeouts on qastaging for bug queries, e.g. https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=OOPS-1986QASTAGING120
<gary_poster> bac, could it be the critical bug summary thing lifeless talked about on the list?
<bac> gary_poster: i've just read the incident report and it is unclear
<gary_poster> bac, bug 794802
<_mup_> Bug #794802: many bug activities timing out due to contention on bugsummary <canonical-losa-lp> <regression> <timeout> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/794802 >
 * gary_poster looks an oops
<gary_poster> at
<gary_poster> bac, agreed that it is unclear, but that 9 second query in the OOPS you gave looks pretty innocuous.  contention makes a lot of sense.
<bac> gary_poster: so what's one to do?
<bac> gary_poster: qa-ok even though i can't prove it?  qa-bad even though i don't think it is my branch?
<gary_poster> oh
<bac> lie and mark it qa-untestable?
<bac> qa-punt
<gary_poster> heh
<gary_poster> bac, if you think it will block release of stub's fix for that bug, I say mark it qa-ok and add a comment about the status (you believe it to be fine, and are clearing it so that the critical fix can be deployed).  Alternatively in that situation, wait and ask lifeless what he wants.  If you don't think it will block, then just comment about the status and leave the qa tag as is.
<bac> gary_poster: by definition it is going to block unless i do a rollback, no?
<gary_poster> bac, if it is on devel then yes
<gary_poster> (db-devel no)
<bac> gary_poster: i will mark it qa-ok and be ready for the consequences
<gary_poster> ok
<bac> yes, we're on devel
<gary_poster> k
 * bac returns to kanban
<gary_poster> bac, I am writing a reusable test fixture to help me temporarily replace one view with another, within the component registry.  I'm doing this so I can override a particular method on the view, in this case so that I can force an exception to be raised.  An alternative approach would have been to make a monkey patch, but I was trying not to do that.  Am I reinventing a wheel--do we have a pattern for this that you 
<bac> i've never seen such a thing
<bac> gary_poster: sounds cool
<gary_poster> ok cool thanks
<bac> but you know sinzui has the encyclopedic recall of all things
<gary_poster> bac, in five minutes OK?
<bac> perfect
 * bac tea
<gary_poster> cool
 * gary_poster calls without warning
<gary_poster> bac, oops?
<bac> gary_poster: dunno, skype was reporting my network speed is poor
<bac> it lies
<gary_poster> :-)
<benji> apparently unit any chromium don't mix; I'll be right back
 * benji gives up on Unity and tries to figure out how to turn it off.
<gary_poster> :-/
<benji___> aaand we're back
<gary_poster> this is not giving me inspiration to run and try installing Ubuntu on metal again. :-/
<benji> It's a shame too, because I kind of like Unity; I definately like the type-an-app-name launcher thing, not so much the list of icons on the right, I never use that
<benji> I also like the merging of the title bar and menu.
<gary_poster> yeah, I like app-name launchers too
 * benji tries to remember what the heck he was doing.
<gary_poster> getting ready for call in 8 min! :-)
<benji> heh
 * gary_poster goes for glass of water
<bac> hi benji -- very quick question of urllib2 vs httplib2 for lp2kanban
<bac> i don't see an easy way to turn on debugging for urllib2 like httplib2.debuglevel=1
<benji> bac: I /think/ there is a way, but I don't think it's documented; I wouldn't object to using httplib2 though, urllib2 is evil incarnate
<gary_poster> heh
<bac> benji: ok.
 * benji runs to get a Dr Pepper 
<benji> gary_poster: http://blog.ssokolow.com/archives/2011/05/07/a-python-programmers-first-impression-of-coffeescript/
<gary_poster> eldest = 24 > 21 ? "Liz" : "Ike";
<benji> http://jashkenas.github.com/coffee-script/#operators
<benji> gary_poster: zip = lottery.drawWinner?().address?.zipcode
<benji> gary_poster: https://gist.github.com/870838
<gary_poster> if (typeof elvis !== "undefined" && elvis !== null) {
<gary_poster>   alert("I knew it!");
<gary_poster> }
<gary_poster> alert "I knew it!" if elvis?
<gary_poster> kids =
<gary_poster>   brother:
<gary_poster>     name: "Max"
<gary_poster>     age:  11
<gary_poster>   sister:
<gary_poster>     name: "Ida"
<gary_poster>     age:  9
<benji> futurists =
<benji>   sculptor: "Umberto Boccioni"
<benji>   painter:  "Vladimir Burliuk"
<benji>   poet:
<benji>     name:   "F.T. Marinetti"
<benji>     address: [
<benji>       "Via Roma 42R"
<benji>       "Bellagio, Italy 22021"
<benji>     ]
<gary_poster>         fixture = ZopeViewReplacementFixture('+login', ILaunchpadApplication)
<gary_poster>         class OpenIDLoginThatFailsDiscovery(fixture.original):
<gary_poster>             def _getConsumer(self):
<gary_poster>                 return OpenIDConsumerThatFailsDiscovery()
<gary_poster>         fixture.replacement = OpenIDLoginThatFailsDiscovery
<gary_poster>         self.useFixture(fixture)
<gary_poster> http://cappuccino.org/learn/demos/
<gary_poster> http://280slides.com/Editor/
<gary_poster> benji, reply from leankitkanban:
<gary_poster> We currently do not have any throttling setup but we are developing a policy and will be implementing some safeguards against abuse of our API.  We are currently working with a customer that, most likely inadvertently, was causing us a lot of issues the past two days with a huge number of expensive API calls per second.
<gary_poster> As for your issue, we haven't heard about this problem from the customers that are using our API but that doesn't necessarily mean they didn't experience the problem.  If you like, you can let us know when you are testing something and we can monitor our logs to see if we see anything suspicious.
<gary_poster> bac ^^
<bac> benji, gary_poster: i have converted to use httplib2 and i am not getting errors from leankit any more
<bac> i am not claiming that is causal
<bac> but it is good
<gary_poster> bac, cool either way though :-)
<bac> i'm putting a little bow on it and about to push
<gary_poster> awesome
<bac> gary_poster: it may be overkill but was easy so i did it -- output from running the script:  https://pastebin.canonical.com/48377/
<bac> and usage
<bac> it shows we need to be more discriminating in the bugs we pull from LP, perhaps.
<gary_poster> bac, heh
<gary_poster> yeah
<gary_poster> night
<bac> bye
#launchpad-yellow 2011-06-10
<gary_poster> bac, benji, objectives today if possible (especially since I'm going on vacation)
<gary_poster> also, is it safe to run lp2kanban?  Should I just run it with
<gary_poster> bin/py src/lp2kanban/bugs2cards.py -e gary.poster@gmail.com -p <yourpassword>
<gary_poster> or do I need to specify the board?
<gary_poster> It looks like the ones I've done as test cases have not yet been synced
<benji> gary_poster: I did mine yesterday... hopefully correctly.
<gary_poster> cool benji I'll look.  thanks
<gary_poster> benji, bac, oddly, I get
<gary_poster> Traceback (most recent call last):
<gary_poster>   File "src/lp2kanban/bugs2cards.py", line 5, in <module>
<gary_poster>     from argparse import ArgumentParser
<gary_poster> ImportError: No module named argparse
<benji> gary_poster: did you run the buildout? that's a new dependency
<gary_poster> I did, but maybe before I updated.  lemme retry
<benji> if that doesn't work, perhaps it wasn't added to the install requires entry
<gary_poster> benji, bin/buildout did nothing, and retrying failed again.  We can look into it later
<gary_poster> benji, updating setup and buildout made it work.  I'l commit in a sec.  Looks like it is updating ythe test board?
<benji> gary_poster: no idea, I haven't touched it lately
<gary_poster> looks like -b yellow should work...
<bac> hi gary_poster
<gary_poster> hey bac
<gary_poster> got it to work
<bac> gary_poster: yes, yellowtest is the default.  safer that way
<gary_poster> agreed
<bac> gary_poster: and cards must be marked to get synced
<gary_poster> but no cards are reported as updated (I mean, that's what the script reports).  I'm seeing what the cnstraint is...
<gary_poster> ah ok
<bac> title.startswith("sync:") or a tag in the description
<gary_poster> coo;
<gary_poster> cool, I see that
<gary_poster> trying
<gary_poster> bac benji danilos, call in 2
<bac> ok
<danilos> ack
<benji> gary_poster: for a second there I thought Julia had taken over your IRC client
<gary_poster> bac, benji, ta-dar! :-)  I synced my two bugs
<benji> yay!
<gary_poster> ga ga goo goo
<danilos> fwiw, does anyone find that leankitkanban is much less responsive lately
<bac> gary_poster: ooo, try again
<danilos> maybe that was while the script was running :))
<gary_poster> heh
 * benji wonders if it's onomatopoeia like a pirate day.
<gary_poster> bac, running
<gary_poster> I'll start the call when it is finished
<gary_poster> note you have to reload the board
<bac> nice
<gary_poster> it's done
<bac> no
<bac> it reload automatically
<gary_poster> oh I see
<gary_poster> I just wasn't patient enough the first time
<gary_poster> sweet!
<danilos> yeah, I got a notice how the board is updated
<benji> yeah, in my experience it behaves the same as when people update the board
<bac> gary_poster: how did you resolve the argparser issue?
<gary_poster> bac, just updated setup.py and buildout.cfg.  will commit
<bac> why did it work for me?  is that required for things that are in the standard distribution?
<benji> bac: my psychic powers tell me that you're running Python 2.7 which has argparse and Gary is running 2.6 which doesn't
<bac> benji: hmm, i thought i'd used 2.6
<benji> bac: that or you're using a python with argparse already installed
<bac> benji: i guess.  i don't recall installing it.  /me looks
<danilos> gary_poster, lp:~danilo/launchpad/bug-772754-other-subscribers-remove-cruft
<bac> benji: i guess i'm wrong!  it is in /usr/lib/pymodules so i guess that is something i installed?
<benji> I can't tell from here. ;)
 * benji supresses a system-python-is-evil rant.
<bac> yep, i'd installed python-argparse at some point
<bac> hey benji i was thinking it might be a good idea to save off the initial state of the kanban board in case we mess it up in some way.  i assume there is nothing in their API that would allow recovery.
<benji> yeah, I don't know of a way to set the entire board state (although, as you know, they let you retrieve it)
<bac> benji: i forgot to tell you that you and i swapped #launchpad help contact days this week!  i covered for you on monday.  you mind picking it up today?
<benji> bac: sure
<benji> I swear!  Now the Gnome shell is crashing on me.  Maybe it wan't Unity's fault.
<benji> gary_poster: after looking at bug 697735 for a little while, I've realized that either I don't think it should be considered a bug or I don't understand what it should do instead -- if you hand craft odd URLs you'll get wierd errors, what's wrong with that?
<_mup_> Bug #697735: ValueError raised submitting bogus query string <lp-foundations> <oops> <Launchpad itself:Triaged by benji> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/697735 >
<gary_poster> sorry, just saw that; looking
<gary_poster> benji, from a high-level perspective, the problem is that OOPS reports are supposed to be actionable
<gary_poster> benji, it's fine for the user to get an error
<gary_poster> benji, but as you say, there's nothing for us to fix--so we should not get an OOPS
<gary_poster> That's my understanding
<benji> makes sense, I was missing that angle
<gary_poster> Of course, fixing it may be a little exciting :-/
<benji> yeah, I'm starting to wonder if I made a bad pick.  I'll timebox at least the first stab at fixing it to see where it goes.
<gary_poster> anyone, what date did you choose for your allhands objectives' target dates?  I have responded to all of them so I can't see them anymore  :-P
<gary_poster> Oh Apr 12
<gary_poster> nm
<danilos> gary_poster, something random for me, mostly in March/April next year
<gary_poster> :-)
<gary_poster> cool
<gary_poster> dragnob said in her email today april 12
<gary_poster> I dunno if that is real or not
<gary_poster> but whatever, it's in the ballpark :-)
<gary_poster> thanks
<danilos> gary_poster, fwiw, all the MPs are up and linked to the bug, in order of how they are in my pipeline (and in order of their dependencies; -lp-names is the only one which is relatively independent)
<danilos> gary_poster, -sections, -subscribers, -activity, and -loading should be most interesting
<gary_poster> danilos, awesome.  I got your last branch and I think it is built now; I'll look at the UX, and the diffs, soon.
<danilos> gary_poster, fwiw, anything after -loading (inclusive) but before the last one (exclusive) will have two subscribers lists :)
<gary_poster> danilos, heh, ok, good to know :-)
<danilos> gary_poster, I wouldn't mind you reviewing a branch or two while I add tests for -actions :))
<gary_poster> danilos, ok cool.  I should be able to start in about 10 min.
<danilos> gary_poster, yeah, no worries, you don't have to review them (especially not all of them, that's why I split them up :)
<danilos> gary_poster, I am also asking on #launchpad-dev, so if are starting a review, please claim it
<gary_poster> ack
<benji> gary_poster: what is an "informational" oops?
<Ursinha> an oops that's not an oops? :P
<gary_poster> benji, yeah
<gary_poster> we track them separately
<gary_poster> we don't need to drive them to zero
<benji> gary_poster: so would inappropriate use of :int be an informational oops?
<gary_poster> but it is convenient to use the OOPS machinery to collect the data
<gary_poster> eh
<gary_poster> no
<gary_poster> not as far as I know
<benji> but we don't really want to collect anything
<gary_poster> because we don't want to track itright
<gary_poster> benji, do you know how to generate api docs from a lazr.restful app, like api.launchpad.net/+apidoc ?  This is a question from ISD
<benji> gary_poster: not off the top of my head, but I'm sure I could figure it out quickly enough
<gary_poster> benji, if that's ok, please do; my stack is getting too deep for last day before vacation :-)
<benji> heh, ok
<benji> gary_poster: there's no super-straightforward way, but it's not too bad.  The best thing would be for them to look at utilities/create-lp-wadl-and-apidoc.py in LP.
<gary_poster> benji, ok thanks
<gary_poster> benji, I told Ricardo Kirkner, "pindonga," that he could ping you if he had questions.  I suggest that the first time he asks you for help, you give it to him as soon as convenient; subsequent times give him focus no more than once or twice a day if possible, unless, in your judgement, you think you ought to give him more.  Good relations are good, and they are doing important things.
<benji> k
<danilos> gary_poster, fwiw, I found one of the problems "generic" webkit JS engine (eg. epiphany) borks on: "class" as a variable name, or more frequently, a function parameter :/
<gary_poster> danilos, interesting!
<gary_poster> good to file away
<gary_poster> and unfortunate :-/
<danilos> gary_poster, do you happen to know if that's a problem for Safari as well? I find it interesting because webkit JS should be identical in both, minus the version differences
<gary_poster> I don't know off-hand danilos.  I mosty use Chrom these days, which has a different JS engine AFAIK
<danilos> gary_poster, yeah, it does
<danilos> gary_poster, looking at the code, it seems your unlanded branch is the only one which tries to use it, though :) http://paste.ubuntu.com/623491/ if you want to apply it to your branch directly
<gary_poster> danilos, cool, thanks, will do
<danilos> gary_poster, ftr, it seems to be a problem with safari as well: http://blog.solution10.com/2010/02/use-of-class-in-javascript
<gary_poster> cool
<gary_poster> thanks
 * danilos -> off, pushing branches up took longer than I expected, so still tests missing for the final branch
 * danilos needs to add task cards to the kanban board as well... :/
 * gary_poster lunches
<gary_poster> bac, I want to reorder the sections in danilos' final branch.  I don't know if it affects yours.  I think that "Maybe notified" should be last, as it is in the mockup (and I wonder if we should have a help icon with the explanation for what "Maybe notified" means).
<gary_poster> I suspect that is in a later branch
<gary_poster> but wanted to share now, in case it is in that one
<gary_poster> I'll dig in more after lunch
<bac> ok
<gary_poster> I'll just put the comment in the last MP and not worry about it, I think.
<benji> gary_poster: I have a pretty good solution to the bug we discussed earlier (bug 697735) but I wanted to get a consult to be sure it doesn't go too high on the hack-o-meter: https://pastebin.canonical.com/48394/
<_mup_> Bug #697735: ValueError raised submitting bogus query string <lp-foundations> <oops> <Launchpad itself:Triaged by benji> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/697735 >
<gary_poster> k, looking
<benji> it scores a 3/10 on my unit here, but mine is known to be unreliable
<gary_poster> :-)
<gary_poster> benji, mm, BrowserRequest.__processItem is so tasty.
<benji> heh, how so?
<gary_poster> sarcasm, just that it is so big and dense that copying and modifying is really unappealing, and then combine that with the __* munging and you have a really great reason to do the monkeypatch, which is a shame
<gary_poster> benji, did you consider having a marker interface for the request instead?
<gary_poster> we do that kind of thing a lot
<benji> oh, indeed
<benji> re. marker; well, it'd be a marker on the exception, right?  That'd be fine with me.
<gary_poster> benji, wouldn't it have to be on the request?
<benji> the reason I did it this way is because it mirrors the way we did something similar for the web service
<gary_poster> since _isIgnoredException takes strtype
<gary_poster> not the actual instance
<benji> it also (after I changed it) takes the exception instance
<gary_poster> oh, duh, yeah
<gary_poster> so yeah, on the exception sounds good
<gary_poster> that way you could do it on the fly or as a general statement in code
<gary_poster> ("this kind of exception is not oops worthy")
<benji> sounds good
<gary_poster> cool
<gary_poster> benji, the only thing that really irks me is the monkeypatch, and I see why you did it.  Overriding __processItem does not seem like a nice option
<gary_poster> well...
<benji> right, it seemed like the lesser of the two evils; the other option would be to modify zope.publisher to make this easier
<gary_poster> I looked for the word "monkeypatch" in the code, and I only saw mailman do it, which is not regarded as one of our high marks :-)
<gary_poster> benji, I'd get bac's opinion, which will be easy since he'll probably be your reviewer.  I think I'd trust his opinion more than mine.  The only other thought I had was that you could consider moving the monkeypatch to lib/lp_sitecustomize.py.  It is where we do other similar sorts of things, and is where people will expect to find stuff like this AFAIK
<gary_poster> benji, other than that, I think the interface-on-the-exception method of squelching OOPSes will be quite welcome, and should be announced.
<benji> k; I'll look in lib/lp_sitecustomize.py, and add a comment there that hopedully would have helped me find it when I was looking for a home for this thing
<gary_poster> cool
<benji> k
 * benji orders bright white, embossed announcement cards.
<gary_poster> :-)
 * benji is reminded by his phone to do CHR tasks.
<benji> hmm, we seem to be behind in project/license review (or I'm doing it wrong)
<benji> gary_poster: your lost soul is still lost: https://support.one.ubuntu.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=2433  What should I do for him?  Ask a LOSA to change his account's email address?
<gary_poster> benji, I was bad (and/or swamped in other things) today and didn't do CHR, and we are missing gmb, so you are getting a bunch.  Sorry. :-(  bac, is there any chance you could give some thoughts on help we could give to that guy--the oops that he mentions?
<gary_poster> I *think* we just need to set a preferred email, but I'm not really sure, and going int the raw SQL feels a bit like diving into the deep end which might have some hungry sharks hanging around.
<benji> heh
<gary_poster> So I'm hoping you have some insight on "tried and true" things to do to help that guy, bac
<gary_poster> (from your registry days)
<benji> k, I'll set his email address; how do we know that we're not being soccially engineered into giving control of someone's account to someone else?
<bac> gary_poster: i'll look
<gary_poster> benji, we contacted him at this email address
<gary_poster> thanks bac
<gary_poster> getting kids from school, biab
<benji> Hmm, I don't understand that.  He said he doesn't have access to the account's current email address any more.
<bac> benji: i'm confused too
<gary_poster> benji, bac, it may have been because it was compromised?  The situation was that his account was sending spam
<bac> benji: so here is my take.  the dude was suspended for spamming.  it is unclear whether he confirmed that he resolved his spam problem, i.e. changed password, got rid of browser issue
<bac> i think when we reactivate his account he has to go to the 'forgot my password' dance to get reinstated
<bac> is that right, gary_poster?
<gary_poster> (he said there was no browser issue)
<bac> if so, he's currently stuck as he won't be able to retrieve the link
<gary_poster> forgot my password: well...we suspended his LP account
<gary_poster> not his SSO acount AFAIK
<bac> gary_poster: then why can't he log in now?  why is his account still showing as suspended (grey avatar)?
<gary_poster> I don't know.  I think it is because of an LP bug
<gary_poster> if you look at the state in the administartion page
<gary_poster> then I think you'll see that he is actuve
<gary_poster> actve
<gary_poster> active
<gary_poster> (he said, typing slowly)
<gary_poster> what I thought we needed
<gary_poster> was to set a preferred email
<gary_poster> because that's what the OOPS points to
<gary_poster> but maybe logging in via SSO would work?
<gary_poster> Should we tell him to make a new account, and then merge the new into the old?
<gary_poster> if there's no accessible email associated with the old account, that won't work either
<bac> oh, i missed that there was an OOPS
<bac> no, a merge will not work
<gary_poster> ok
<bac> gary_poster: what is the OOPS?
<bac> i don't see it
<bac> i don't think lifeless understands my silly attempts at humor.
<gary_poster> bac, argh, sorry.  This is not the most pitiful of souls, nor the one I was thinking about or talking about.  I meant https://support.one.ubuntu.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=2120
<gary_poster> who has been unable to log in for two weeks now
<bac> aha!
<gary_poster> bac, OOPS-1973H90
<gary_poster> bug 793670
<_mup_> Bug #793670: User account missing preferred email after suspension/reactivation <oops> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/793670 >
<benji> gary_poster: what's the bug number for the redoing of the bug subscription overlay you were working on?
<benji> (I can't find it on the board.)
<gary_poster> benji bug 772754 (Feature Work: (BIG BUGS))
<_mup_> Bug #772754: After better-bug-notification changes, list of bug subscribers is confusing <qa-ok> <story-better-bug-notification> <Launchpad itself:In Progress by gary> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/772754 >
<benji> doh!  I've gotten so used to not looking in there that I totally missed it.
<gary_poster> :-)
<benji> I'm tempted to be "conversational" when chaning bug statuses or marking them duplicates, i.e., adding a comment about what I'm doing and why, but that doesn't seem to be the culture so I'm abstaining
<gary_poster> benji, dunno.  I do it when I think it adds value
<benji> the only "value" I was feeling was along the lines of softening the "they just marked my bug as Low, they must hate me" reaction
<gary_poster> I have about one hour before vacation...I could help with CHR or read about CoffeeScript.  Which one sounds like more fun?  Which one should I actually do?
<gary_poster> Yeah
<gary_poster> I've written those
<gary_poster> I've become more...blunt lately with the new standards
<gary_poster> So I have not
<gary_poster> but do what feels right
<bac> gary_poster, benji: i have not idea what to do for amichai2
<bac> gary_poster, benji: short of asking a LOSA to do a SQL mod to give him a preferred email address
<benji> gary_poster: I just finished CHR (whew, it took more than an hour), so I doubt there's anything to do
<gary_poster> benji, I was pondering https://support.one.ubuntu.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=2514
<benji> oh, feel free handle that one ;P
<gary_poster> bac, that's what I was thinking.  Would you feel comfortable assembling such SQL?
<bac> gary_poster: will it fulfill my SQL goal?  :)
<gary_poster> bac, lol
<gary_poster> bac, it would help
<bac> sure, i'll see what i can do
<gary_poster> cool
<bac> am i going to need a TL or higher to sign off on my losa request?
<gary_poster> bac, yeah, I think TL can do it
<gary_poster> benji, FWIW, I assigned it to Matthew Revell and sent a message to the requester and Matthew to that effect
<benji> cool
<gary_poster> benji, fun: today Danilo alerted me that webkit falls over if you use "class" as an argument because it is a non-functioning reserved keyword in JS.  All other browsers are fine with it.  coffeescript compilation (and repl) clearly disallows.  another win.
<benji> heh, cool
<benji> gary_poster: I assume that goes for all the other reserved, but unused words.  There are lots of them.
<gary_poster> benji, I'd hope so. dunno
<gary_poster> I'd expect so tbh.  this obviously has been around the block
<bac> gary_poster: it looks like there is enough info at https://wiki.canonical.com/InformationInfrastructure/ISD/Docs/SSO/ErrorSettingPreferredEmail for a losa to work with
<gary_poster> bac, oh interesting
<gary_poster> bac, +1 I guess...assuming he has an email at all, which I hope he does
<gary_poster> I mean, registered in LP
<bac> benji: did you see statik talking about playing with coffeescript?
<benji> nope, I'll look in my logs
<bac> benji: it was only 15 minutes ago or so
<bac> gary_poster: is there any chance we messed up with that user?  should he have gone from suspended to unactivated?
<bac> which would require following an activation link?
<bac> i can find no docs
<gary_poster> bac, I went from suspended to activated, and that failed
<gary_poster> then
<gary_poster> sinzui said we'd had truble with that in the past
<gary_poster> and suggested I go from deactivated to activated
<gary_poster> so I did that
<gary_poster> and that failed too
<bac> did you try unactivated?
<bac> gary_poster: the guy's email address was marked 2-validated.  we forced it to preferred
<bac> https://launchpad.net/~amichai2
<bac> looks much better
<bac> Go Banana Slugs!
<gary_poster> yay bac!
<gary_poster> thanks
<bac> gary_poster: the other gent was in the same boat.  i think we've got a suspend/reanimate issue here
<gary_poster> bac, huh
<gary_poster> maybe make a comment on the related bug?
<bac> this guy: https://support.one.ubuntu.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=2433
<bac> ok
<gary_poster> yeah, I figured that was who you meant
<bac> if the bug is not critical it should be
<gary_poster> I think I marked it critical
<gary_poster> bug 793670
<_mup_> Bug #793670: User account missing preferred email after suspension/reactivation <oops> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/793670 >
<gary_poster> yeah
<gary_poster> bye
<gary_poster> tty;
<gary_poster> l
<gary_poster> need to get better at this typing while walking thing :-)
#launchpad-yellow 2012-06-04
<gary_poster> bac benji frankban https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/8ef284571d4d361571b8b2084a9b9bfb13f0ae1f
<gary_poster> we'll start as soon as everyone joins
<gary_poster> bac, ping
<bac> gary_poster: if you make a new blog be sure to add it to http://planet.launchpad.net/
<gary_poster> bac, agreed
<gary_poster> sadly, goldenhorde.com is not available.  OTOH, goldenhorde.xxx is.
<benji> gary_poster: I am disappointed, that's the first time my domain-name-checker of choice has misled me
<gary_poster> :-)
<benji> there's always yellowblather.com
<gary_poster> heh
<benji> gary_poster: yellowsquad.com looks like an obvious (and available) choice
<gary_poster> benji, goldensquad too
<gary_poster> lol, or goldencheer.com
<benji> heh
 * gary_poster is somewhat tempted by that one
<benji> sounds japanese
<gary_poster> oops
<benji> goldencheer.com sounds japanese
<benji> we can start doing group calisthenics before work every morning
<gary_poster> lol, that would be a good thing for me
<benji> grr, my no-beeps-when-on-battery thing is back
<gary_poster> :-/
 * benji plugs in his AC-powered beep generator
<gary_poster> lol, sunnycheer.com is available too
 * gary_poster is really being productive
<benji> heh
<gary_poster> frankban, approved expenses btw
<frankban> thanks gary_poster
<gary_poster> welcome
<gary_poster> Now is the time I have to babysit
<gary_poster> I'm not sure how long this will be; could be an hour, likely to be 1.5 hours, could be 2 hours.  So...I should be back no later than 3 or so my time, and hopefully sooner
<frankban> benji: when you have time, could you please review https://code.launchpad.net/~frankban/launchpad/bug-1001520-memcache-warnings/+merge/108592 ? No rush, EOD, have a nice evening!
<benji> frankban: sure.  Enjoy your evening.
<gary_poster> <sarcasm>benji, this is pretty deep, but if you have your thinking cap on tight you might be able to review this one when you get a chance: https://code.launchpad.net/~gary/launchpad/bug1007576/+merge/108609</sarcasm>
<gary_poster> benji, ^^^ your ping machine may not have liked my angle brackets.  (Or your ping machine may be broken.)
<benji> gary_poster: or I was eating lunch :)
<gary_poster> benji, :-) or that
<benji> gary_poster: approved
<gary_poster> thanks.  one nice thing about being the squad that runs the parallel tests is that we can use the system to test our branches :-)
<gary_poster> So, tests have passed!
<benji> cool
<gary_poster> Our first green build in weeks.  Count that as a grim-lipped "yay!"
<benji> :)
<gary_poster> Two! Two! Two Green Builds!  Ah Ha Ha Ha!
<bac> \0/
<gary_poster> :-)
<bac> gary_poster, benji: can you two 'splain to be about __str__ and __repr__?  i thought i understood but clearly i don't.  for reference: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1023893/
<bac> why would str(test) not be the same as 'print test' and 'print test.__str__()'?
<gary_poster> That is a surprise to me as well.  I am googling
<bac> i thought 'print x' calls x.__str__
<gary_poster> me 2. and that's what docs seem to say
<gary_poster> http://docs.python.org/reference/datamodel.html
<gary_poster> bac, maybe a proxy of some sort is screwing things up
<bac> hmm
<gary_poster> bac, try type(whatever)
<bac> looks unsuspicious: <class 'doctest.DocFileCase'>
<gary_poster> bac, ok.  I'll try to think of other options...
<gary_poster> bac, what is producing the output of print test?  is it the same as repr?
<gary_poster> bac, out of paranoia I verified experimentally that __str__ did what I understood/expected. It did, in the REPL
<bac> gary_poster: yes, i think it is the same as repr
<gary_poster> bac, you could try "debug print test" and see what happens
<gary_poster> in pdb
<bac> oh
<gary_poster> that won't show you c of course
<gary_poster> but might give you something
<bac> hmm, that wasn't very exciting
<bac> didn't really show anything
<gary_poster> where did it go?
<gary_poster> did you step in?
<gary_poster> would you like to pair for 22 minutes?
<bac> it is calling repr
<bac> sure are you tb compliant?
<gary_poster> heh, will verify
<bac> "Do you have TB?"
<gary_poster> :-)
<gary_poster> I have an old version.   updating to new packaged stuff...
<bac> there was an interesting story on Radio Lab about Typhoid Mary this weekend
<bac> Her signature dish was "Peach Melba" -- raw peaches and ice cream.  perfect vector.
<gary_poster> heh
<gary_poster> oh pooh
<gary_poster> currently in the middile of another install
<gary_poster> let's just hangout and share screen
<bac> ok
<gary_poster> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/aebeaee493c414847842e2ca89af2955504b7fca
<gary_poster> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1023923/
<gary_poster> night all
#launchpad-yellow 2012-06-05
 * benji gets some pre-standup coffee.
 * benji has finished his pre-standup coffee and wonders where the standup went.
<gmb> benji: Um, isn't it in an hour?
<benji> oh!
<benji> gmb: combine me being in a different time zone and having been up since 3 AM because I couldn't sleep and that's what happens :)
<gmb> Ah, yes, that can and will happen.
<gmb> benji: Which timezone are you in now, then?
<benji> "Central" which is UTC minus 5 hours
<gmb> Ah.
<bac> gmb: i got a spyder4 yesterday.  the world is a little less green today.  :)
<gmb> :)
<gmb> Reminds me, I need to recalibrate.
<bac> the laptop was particularly bad
<gmb> Yeah, laptop panels are traditionally awful when it comes to colour accuracy.
<gary_poster> bac benji frankban gmb call in 2
<gary_poster> getting url
<gary_poster> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/bc3d875fdcbeb3e248cf65d4577704a3deea777e bac benji frankban gmb
 * gmb -> Joining
 * gmb -> lunch
<bac> benji: is that the same house you mentioned a few weeks ago?
<benji> bac: nope, we lost out on that one, it was bank-owned and they took a competing bid
<benji> the one from a couple of weeks ago was much cheaper but needed much, much more work
<bac> b/c this one looks a lot nicer than you described the original one
<bac> good luck
<gary_poster> @ more than 3x the price one woud hope so :-)
<benji> yeah, this one mostly just has cosmetic problems, there are a couple of water-induced rot issues, but it's pretty minor compared with the last one
<gary_poster> bac, gmb approved expenses
<gary_poster> nice blog post gmb.
<gary_poster> And I even added your first comment, so as to have you not appear to be speaking to crickets
<frankban> gary_poster: if you are running tests on buildbot, could you please check if this directory exists? /var/tmp/buildd/ and could you please run: find / -name ".bzr.log" ?
<gary_poster> looking frankban
<frankban> thanks
<gary_poster> actually frankban, um...you need me to look in the container don't you.  I'll need to restart a build for that, after I add the root password there....  I'll ping you when I have something
 * bac is irritated that DocFileSuite is not a class but a method.  nice naming.
<gary_poster> heh
<frankban> gary_poster: ah! you are right, thanks
<benji> yeah, I think the reasoning is that it is a factory method, so it's named like that (not that I agree with the reasoning)
<gary_poster> Ah yeah, I've done that sort of thing too.  "class in spirit if not in form" or something
<gary_poster> frankban, :
<gary_poster> # ls /var/tmp/
<gary_poster> bazaar.launchpad.dev  bzrsync  codeimport  launchpad_mailqueue  mailman  xvfb-errors.log
<gary_poster> # find / -name ".bzr.log"
<gary_poster> /var/lib/buildbot/.bzr.log
<gary_poster> anything else frankban?
<frankban> gary_poster: no thanks
<gary_poster> cool
<gary_poster> system restart.  Hopefully back soon...
<bac> hey gary_poster got a sec to chat?
<gary_poster> bac, sure, but I didn't bring headphones down to porch.  Will get and ping.  Could you get hangout going?
<bac> yep
<gary_poster> bac, url pls?
<bac> gary_poster: gah, i don't know how to find it
<gary_poster> k 1 sec
<bac> ur, nm this time it showed up
<bac> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/2a1331a87490df2ce18c411f9f1ed15714c40f8c?authuser=0&hl=en
<bac> in the past when i enabled the toolbar the URL never did show
<frankban> gary_poster: so it appears that there is a bug in launchpad-buildd: please ping me when you have a minute
<gary_poster> ack
<gary_poster> frankban, hi
<gary_poster> hangout?
<frankban> ok
<gary_poster> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/afd99e78e61364cfa374448a2cc7f911cf1799d4
<gary_poster> frankban, ^^
 * gary_poster goes to lunch to take advantage of Triangle Restaurant Week...biab
<benji> gary_poster: I'm tardy in asking to pair, but I thought I had it done... I didn't
<gary_poster> benji, ack.  I'll be redy in a few.
<gary_poster> ready, even.
<gary_poster>  benji https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/c8219c883d90e3dc3f289defedfd95083e4f2b64 whenever you are ready
<bac> gary_poster: we were wrong yesterday about the redundancy of the 'partial'.
<gary_poster> bac ack on call would like to know
<gary_poster> bac, why was it important?
<bac> gary_poster: your test you did something like t.id = lambda: 'foo'
<gary_poster> yes
<bac> but if you don't use a constant, then they are all bound to the variable
<bac> this may be clearer: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1025738/
<bac> oops, not that version
<gary_poster> k :-)
<bac> this one: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1025740/
<gary_poster> oh.  so it is being used to capture a state for a closure
<gary_poster> I haven't used partial for that
<gary_poster> I usually write a function to capture
<gary_poster> using partial is clever, if not as obvious
<gary_poster> thanks bac; sorry for leading you astray.  everything going ok otherwise?
<bac> gary_poster: np
<bac> gary_poster: yeah, just finding all of the offending tests with duplication and whacking them
<gary_poster> cool
#launchpad-yellow 2012-06-06
<gary_poster> gmb, approved july 13-16
<gmb> gary_poster: Ah, thanks.
 * benji returns from the coffee-in-a-tor.
 * bac tea, brb
<gary_poster> bac benji frankban gmb https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/0fa5a03006b2f488f8c1c361642911ef26b87e68
 * bac owes benji a beverage of his choice
<benji> heh
<benji> gmb: let me know when you're ready to pair
<gmb> benji: Will do, just OTP ATM. Should be done soon.
<benji> sounds good
<gmb> benji, I'm in https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/4d4738a1bd3c2d4fb104618ab69a5aeed54f6163?authuser=0&hl=en-GB# when you're ready
<benji> gmb: cool, I'll be there in a sec
<gmb> benji, and then it crashed
 * gmb reloads
<benji> gmb: same here
<bac> i figured out the unittest duplication problem.  a testcase was defined and used in one module and then imported into another module and subclassed.  the import caused it to be discovered again and re-run.  i'm surprised this hasn't happened before.
<bac> the fix was to make the shared parts a mixin that did not extend TestCase
<gary_poster> huh, interesting.  yeah
<bac> seems obvious in retrospect
<gary_poster> although...it would seem that the finding code could dedupe based on the module of a test case
<gary_poster> maybe that's too much magic
<bac> i guess most of our test subclassing happens within a given module
<gary_poster> usually
<gary_poster> yeah
<bac> benji: you were kidding about the warhead part, no?
<benji> bac: yeah :)
<bac> was 95% sure
<bac> that's the wackiest damn thing i've seen in launchpad
<bac> never thought i'd read PBUH in a license
<bac> benji: i'm making changes to zope.testing and am pretty close.  do we need to coordinate or will you be a while?
<bac> should i make p8 if i get there first and you'll do p9
<benji> bac: I have some tests running now in EC2, but it will likely be quite a while; I'll sync up with you before I get close to landing
<benji> bac: yeah, the winner gets p8
<bac> ok
<gary_poster> hard hangs :-(
<frankban> benji: I think --shuffle-seed doesn't work because the initial order of tests changes depending of the options you use: with -t the order of initial list reflects how the tests are found in the suite; with --load-list the order of initial list is taken from the file
<benji> this flaky internet connection is getting annoying
<frankban> aargh, you were offline benji, I'll repeat
<benji> if we end up buying a house here I'll have to think about getting two connections and setting up a fail-over router
<frankban> benji: I think --shuffle-seed doesn't work because the initial order of tests changes depending of the options you use: with -t the order of initial list reflects how the tests are found in the suite; with --load-list the order of initial list is taken from the file
<frankban> benji: a possible fix could be sorting the tests before shuffling them
<frankban> heh
<gary_poster> bac, you want a different merge target for your zope.testing branch
<gary_poster> the MP is very unhappy
<gary_poster> merge instead to...(looking)
<gary_poster> bac, merge to lp:~launchpad/zope.testing/3.9.4-fork
<bac> gary_poster: i thought that was where i targeted
<bac> gary_poster: ah, if you use the chooser to pick the merge target it fails to change the radio button!
<bac> gary_poster: https://code.launchpad.net/~bac/zope.testing/list-tests/+merge/109007
 * benji reboots
<gary_poster> bac approved
<bac> thanks gary_poster.  did you look at the other?  https://code.launchpad.net/~bac/launchpad/bug-682772/+merge/108983
<gary_poster> no, looking
<gary_poster> bac, why is this necessary?
<gary_poster> 70	-    for key in sorted(special):
<gary_poster> 171	-        special_suite = special[key]
<gary_poster> 172	+    for key, special_suite in sorted(special.items()):
<gary_poster> sorry first line 170
<bac> easier to read
<bac> LOC reduction.  :)
<gary_poster> bac, heh, ok.  You are sorting on key rather than suite order (whatever that is) now too.
<bac> yeah, the key is still the primary sort
<gary_poster> cool
<bac> i think sorted(dict) sorts by key
<gary_poster> huh
<gary_poster> oh sure
<gary_poster> I was mis-thinking
<gary_poster> nice change'
<bac> yep:
<bac> >>> d = dict(a=3,b=5,z=5,w=4,q=1)
<bac> >>> sorted(d)
<bac> ['a', 'b', 'q', 'w', 'z']
<gary_poster> yeah, did same
<gary_poster> bac, why is id_extensions a list, rather that id_extension=None?  Doesn't seem to be used anywhere as a multiple
<bac> gary_poster: yeah, but paths could be
<bac> i thought it nice to keep that option, even though no one was using it
<benji> ok, I bought a wifi tethering app ($15 bucks!) so maybe I'll actually be online for a while
<bac> i could've done the same 'string or list' trick i did with paths
<bac> gary_poster: i'll make that change if you think it is a good idea
<bac> benji: gary approved my change to the 3.9.4-fork branch, so i'm claiming p8 and merging
<gary_poster> bac, can you imagine a scenario in which you would actually want to supply multiple id extensions, and this would do what you expect?  You don't have to tell me what it is
<benji> bac: cool; my zope.testing change is in rough waters again
<bac> gary_poster: if someone called the factory with multiple paths then there would need to a 1:1 correspondence to id_extensions
<gary_poster> ok
<gary_poster> leave as is then bac.  approving as is.  thank you
<bac> gary_poster: thanks!
<gary_poster> done, bac
<bac> ugh, our zope.testing for had 4 test failures.
<bac> i added 10 more failures.  doh.
<gary_poster> :-/
<benji> aaaaand the teathering app doesn't work very well
<gary_poster> I'm up to eight or so hangs in one day now :-(
<benji> :( as irritating as it is, I'll take connectivity problems over machine hangs any day
<gary_poster> yeah :-(
<gary_poster> I'm a day or two away from trying to return this and buying another Mac TBH
<bac> benji: you still around?
<benji> bac: yep
<bac> benji: my changes to 3.9.4-fork have introduced some new test failures due to the way the test names are being formatted.  i've reverted my changes and will deal with them on monday.  seems safer than mucking stuff up before disappearing for four days.
<bac> benji: it is worth noting that our fork has 4 test failures as is.
<benji> bac: makes sense
<bac> benji: so you can have p8!  :)
<benji> My life is complete.
<bac> it never got built
#launchpad-yellow 2012-06-07
<gary_poster> benji frankban gmb call in 2, getting yrl
<gary_poster> url
<gary_poster> bac is out today iirc
<gary_poster> my computer might freeze :-(
<gary_poster> benji frankban gmb https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/fb165b8e9fd0231431873de20d5678c0bf8e3692?authuser=1&hl=en-US
<gary_poster> benji yoohoo
<benji> gary_poster: coming
<benji> gmb: I can't decide if pairing would be helpful or not.  Let me try the pair-with-myself-by-holding-two-sides-of-a-conversation approach first and if I get in too many arguments with myself I'll call you in to break up the fight.
<gary_poster> benji, you were to pair with frankban :-)
<gmb> benji, Okay. Also, I believe frankban is today's nominated victim.
<benji> s/gmb/frankban/
<gmb> :)
<gary_poster> :-)
<gmb> Story of my career.
<gary_poster> heh
<frankban> benji: :-) ok
<frankban> gmb: the mp is here: https://code.launchpad.net/~frankban/launchpad/tests-randomization/+merge/109103
<gmb> Thanks frankban
<frankban> gary_poster: could you please review https://code.launchpad.net/~frankban/launchpad/bug-1003040-again/+merge/109128 ? s/10/60
<gary_poster> A work of staggering genius frankban. :-) approved and thanks
<frankban> lol
<gary_poster> gmb, I have a call with frankban in 2 but I was going to set up termbeamer for us for afterwards.  What is your gtalk/gmail acct?
<gmb> gary_poster, graham.binns@gmail.com
<gary_poster> gmb, cool, sent you invite to chat
<gary_poster> gmb, I'll be ready to rumble in about 7
<gmb> Okay, I'll grab a cup of tea in the interim
<gary_poster> gmb, and by 7, I mean 19. https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/fe09ad549a1b2d982cc2f0cae36ef68dc90231a0?authuser=1&hl=en-US
<gmb> Anyone know why I'm seeing this in LXC?: ImportError: No module named convoy.meta
<gmb> (when running make)
 * benji takes lunch to run the earnest money to the listing agent.
<gary_poster> gmb, no, but convoy is something that rick and deryck worked on
<gmb> Okay, I'll ask 'em.
<gmb> Cheers.
<gmb> gary_poster, When using --load-list, is there anything special besides providing the path to the file that I need to do? Running with --load-list=... at the moment results in 0 tests running.
<gary_poster> gmb, no that should be sufficient
<gary_poster> gmb, I could not stop myself: the two tests are lp.app.browser.tests.test_launchpad.TestErrorViews.test_GoneError
<gary_poster> lp.testing.tests.test_testing.TestFeatureFlags.test_set_feature_flags_raises_if_not_available
<gmb> gary_poster, Haha, thanks :)
<gary_poster> but you still need to be able to run them :-)
<gmb> Well, yes.
<gmb> But I'll work on that bit.
<gary_poster> :-) k
 * gmb needs to write a script for the get-gary-to-bisect-and-find-the-problem approach
<gary_poster> :-)
<gary_poster> Oh!  gmb!  I meant to talk to you about what you ended up doing for the UDS Launchpad spin up.  I have a plan on how to do it with Juju, but wanted to make sure you hadn't already solved it
<gmb> gary_poster, Ah. My answer was to have an EBS-backed AMI, in the end, because doing it any other way was horribly slow.
<gmb> But I was trying to work this out to a rapidly approaching deadline (whilst trying to avoid bikeshedding with Gustavo)
<gmb> So I'm open to other options.
<gary_poster> gmb cool!  Do you have a sec for another quick call?  I'd like to talk you through my idea and see what you think.
<gmb> gary_poster, Sure, let me get FF up and running again.
<gary_poster> cool
<gary_poster> gmb https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/a416cf496fa2f47279276ac3a90996f786ace593?authuser=1&hl=en-US
<gary_poster> benji https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/0bc32772bf2edfd99b32b346d8550447ae12bfc8?authuser=1&hl=en-US
<gary_poster> no rush
<gary_poster> benji, you want to hang out?  If so, do you want me to make the hangout?
<benji> gary_poster: sounds good
<gary_poster> cool
<gary_poster> benji https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/f79b459eac9c732f75a6d290814f5e28e28b06d2?authuser=1&hl=en-US
#launchpad-yellow 2012-06-08
<frankban> hi gmb, do you have time for a quick review?
<gmb> frankban, Sure.
<frankban> gmb: thanks, https://code.launchpad.net/~frankban/launchpad/bug-1002820-rabbitfixture-longer-timeout/+merge/109309
<gmb> frankban, Approved
<frankban> great, thanks
<gary_poster> bemji frankban gmb https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/134382c2ef812724970d2520f720c648ea56dd6e?authuser=1&hl=en-US
<gary_poster> sorry for no early warning system today
<garyposter> sigh
 * gmb -> late lunch
<gary_poster> benji http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0035151 fwiw
<benji> gary_poster: cool, that's not one I have seen
<gary_poster> benji https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/bf942fda1d2e3e29994643e61e1e296182ca35fd?authuser=1&hl=en-US
<frankban> benji, can I safely break a bzr lock held by benji@bazaar.launchpad.net on bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/%2Bbranch/lp-source-dependencies/?
<gary_poster> frankban, yes :-)
<benji> frankban: yes, please
<benji> gary_poster: I'm alive!
<gary_poster> benji, yay :-)
<gary_poster> what's your plan, benji?
<benji> gary_poster: first plan was to not sit on the back porch, too warm ;)
<benji> plan now is to keep on keepin' on with you if you're available and amenable
 * benji forgot his power supply and thus hopes the 5 hour predicted battery life is close to reality.
<gary_poster> heh
<gary_poster> benji, ok cool lemme start up hangout
<benji> k
<gary_poster> benji https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/f2f338d24177ca95a5ce1399b8ceb839a27c1bb5?authuser=1&hl=en-US
<gmb> gary_poster: Response from SpamapS:
<gmb> [17:43] SpamapS:
<gmb> gmb: I do plan to get your python modules into Debian/quantal *soon*
<gmb> [17:43] SpamapS:
<gmb> gmb: you're just suffering from an unfortunate series of events of very high priority ;)
<gary_poster> gmb, heh
<gary_poster> um
<gary_poster> ok
<gary_poster> I guess
<gmb> gary_poster: I've asked if there's anything we can do - including suggesting that we ask for help from other packagers, but no answer yet.
<gary_poster> cool thank you
<gmb> He's in the middle of a conversation with hazmat at the moment.
<gary_poster> cool
<gmb> I always seem to talk to Clint when he's doing seventeen other things and juggling kittens, too.
<gary_poster> heh
<benji> gary_poster: compared to yours mine have been hit with the -q stick, but I would appreciate any input you have on my goal draft: https://pastebin.canonical.com/67746/
<gmb> gary_poster: I'm not here any more, but there was discussion in #juju on Freenode between SpamapS and imbrandon about getting things packaged; imbrandon may be taking on the work; I can't tell (and SpamapS said "given that buildbot is being all but abandoned, is anything else going to use the python charm helpers," which I thought was missing the point a bit.)
<gmb> So it might be worth you checking in with them given the fact that I'm not actually here, nor am I saying these things, I'm just a figment of a deranged imagination, kthxbye.
<gary_poster> benji, good.  line 4 typo beuilding.  I kinda would like more pointing at measuring and such but it is definitely your style: I can fill in the blanks relatively easily :-)
<benji> gary_poster: :)
<gary_poster> gmb thanks for heads up.  m_3 says everything should turn out ok
<benji> I was intentionally leaving measuring out so that we can use the measrument(s) that make most sense at the end of the goal period because we don't really know what they mean in particular
<benji> Things always seem to have changed so much by the end of the year that I expect any measurments we define now will be meaningless then.
<gary_poster> benji, the only theme that gets slightly short shrift in my eyes is "feedback loop to improve our delivery".  It is implied in the last goal in particular
<benji> and we'll have to figure out new meeasurments anyway
<benji> yep, it would be a good idea to mention feedback loops in that one particular
<gary_poster> benji, agreed.  As you saw, I moved away from "measurements" to "demonstrations" for my own goals.  Your golas imply them
<gary_poster> goals
<gary_poster> because I'd expect the answers to say "I did this, which led to that; and I did this which led to that" and so on
<benji> gary_poster: so would you like me to add "more pointing at measuring" or do you think this is sufficient?
<gary_poster> benji I'm ok with it
<gary_poster> as is
<benji> gary_poster: I added a feedback loop refrence to the last one: https://pastebin.canonical.com/67751/
<gary_poster> benji hard to understand now.  Maybe divide up into smaller sentences? um...
<benji> hmm
<gary_poster> benji, or cut out middle:
<gary_poster> Use visualization and/or data analysis to assist the squad by providing input for our
<gary_poster>   proccess-improvement feedback loop.
<benji> here's another try: https://pastebin.canonical.com/67752/
<gary_poster> benji, sold
<benji> I wanted to keep our current project in there, because it's not just about how to do things better, but also to figure out what to do
<benji> cool
<benji> gary_poster: my battery is screaming at me; so I guess I need to change locations back to where my power supply is
<gary_poster> benji, :-/ k
<gary_poster> you can probably see that we still do not have a launchpad instance
<benji> gary_poster: do we have a slave?
<gary_poster> benji, sorry missed that, and no, and I don't know why :-(
<gary_poster> but I might as well kill at it at this point...
<gary_poster> although
<benji> hmm
<benji> yeah
<gary_poster> I am still curious :-)
<benji> I've been working on a termbeamer bug.
<gary_poster> so I may give it a bit longer
<gary_poster> cool
