#ubuntu-uds-client-2 2013-05-13
<TigerLuo> hello
<spatuzzo> ciao
<spatuzzo> !list
#ubuntu-uds-client-2 2013-05-14
 * Jiaowen520Li slaps ChanServ around a bit with a large trout
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-2 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305//client-2/ - http://ubottu.com/udslog/%23ubuntu-uds-client-2
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-2 to: Track: Client | Content Handling on Ubuntu/Unity | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21771/client-1305-content-mgmt-picking/
<tedg> The bot really needs a countdown.
<tedg> On your marks...
<tedg> get set...
<tedg> go!
<lool> JohnLea: would you mind muting
<lool> or actually, woudl everyone except thomas mute?  :-)
<lool> thanks!
<dobey> could people who isn't speaking mute themselves and only unumute when speaking?
<tedg> Can we get control of muting in IRC?  ;-)
<dobey> right
<tedg> jasoncwarner, I think you've selected tvoss_ manually.
<tedg> Please switch to auto switching.
<pmcgowan> tvoss_, maybe you ^^
<tvoss_> pmcgowan, I cannot do that
<davmor2> tvoss_: the john is talking but we only see your face
<mdeslaur> I'm not sure users will be able to remember what application a particular photo is stored in
<JoshStrobl> davmor2: tvoss_ can not change it.
<brunogirin> mdeslaur: exactly, it's not intuitive either, I just want to select a photo, not an item in an application
<d0od_irc> brunogirin: +1
<tedg> It seems that it needs to be content focused instead of application focused.
<JoshStrobl> I concur
<mdeslaur> "Did I take that picture with the built-in camera, or with Instagram??"
<brunogirin> scopes and lenses are content focused so making the rest of it application focused feels like a step backwards
<davmor2> store all images in one folder called images and then let the individual apps build their own db on how to display them, maybe?
<JoshStrobl> I like Filler's approach.
<lool> brunogirin: +1
<lool> brunogirin: I also feel this contradiction a bit
<notclive> what ensures that all files are associated with an application?
<alecu> BFiller: I think the problem is not storing new pictures in a shared folder, but "Do you want random-rogue-app to access your pictures?"
<JackYu_> +1
<bfiller> alecu: that would have to some controls on who is allowed to access the shared pictures folder
<lool> alecu: that's a problem in any case, but how do we handle multiple apps creating pictures?
<lool> or replacing the default gallery app with another one
<pipe2> hello Â how to impre Â important content types
<gusch> should this apply for the desktop as well?
<pipe2> great
<lool> gusch: eventually it should
<JoshStrobl> I like this Langridge guy :D
<pmcgowan> yes there needs to be copies
<gusch> lool:that whould mean to break looots of existing apps/functionality
<mdeslaur> ugh, copies are evil
<mdeslaur> asking the user to expert data between applications isn't very elegant
<lool> JohnLea: can one remove the default gallery app entirely, and what happens to your photos if you do?
<pmcgowan> lool, I would expect no
<bfiller> lool: you shouldn't be able to do that
<mdeslaur> but then you can't browse all your pictures from facebook
<lool> jdstrand: like scopes and lenses to browse data from all apps?
<pipe2> sugesst can define user like UI for app on dash
<lool> s/data/photos/
<jdstrand> lool: yeah, I guess one could think of it that way. like I  said, I hadn't thought it all through
<brunogirin> in this case, allow the app to get access to the blessed repository for that type if no other app owns it yet
<gusch> bfiller lool is very active - he might be invited to the hangout
<pipe2> can define user like UI for scope on dash
<JoshStrobl> Not everyone uses Instagram...
<dobey> has anyone in the hangout used WebOS on any real level beyond looking at a demo?
<gusch> and a separate photo editor
<pipe2> I develop music scope for China but Chinese do not like UI,so can define user like UI for scope?
<mdeslaur> a lot of people take pictures with the built in camera, with facebook, with instagram, depending on what happens to be open at the time
<alecu> jdstrand: different levels of review make sense to me, since an app that want to replace the default gallery may need more review than a game that won't be touching the user's personal stuff.
<mmcc> Hi, in case this is useful - I've been working with the iOS photos API recently - on iOS, there's one global photo roll and a default 'images' app. Other apps ask for permission to access (read, add-new) the photo roll. apps can not delete anything, but they can edit the data of images that *they added*.
<lool> gusch, bfiller: (Thanks, I'm in)
<bfiller> lool: cool
<dobey> mdeslaur: right, photos are special because they're valid for almost every type of app on a phone to use
<brunogirin> mdeslaur: and if I have an app to modify my photos, it may have been taken first time round by the camera then the update will be owned by another app
<mdeslaur> mmcc: interesting
<jdstrand> alecu: ack, and that's fine, however we don't want to promote situations that require extensive review
<bfiller> mmcc: exactly
<bfiller> mmcc: that's what I was getting at
<dobey> also, games and other things might even have a "screenshot" feature which doesn't actually use the camera, but stores pictures somewhere
<brunogirin> mmcc: sounds a sensible way to do things
<dobey> don't know if the base system provides a screenshot feature or not
<JoshStrobl> dobey -> generally screenshot utilities come with the system / distro. Ubuntu does.
<pipe2> i agree
<aquarius_uds> agreed, dobey: an imgur app, for example, or a facebook app are also potentially *sources* of images
<dobey> JoshStrobl: ubuntu touch is a little different than ubuntu as you know it though
<dobey> aquarius_uds: right
<mmcc> one last minor iOS point : there's a special consideration for 'modification' on iOS - there's a call to save a new image that is a modified version of an existing image. This lets an image editor "edit" images that it didn't create...
<JoshStrobl> Oh course dobey, however I do expect it'd be baked into Ubuntu Phone.
<tvoss_> tedg, scarf -> done!!
<dobey> JoshStrobl: sure. but your expectation and the actual thing might not match up. so it's a relevent question to ask. assuming it will be a certain way is bad :)
 * tedg feels warmer already
<dobey> JoshStrobl: and regardless, games often have a "take a picture" thing in-game, which is separate from the system screenshot feature
<lool> JohnLea: feedback loop from your microphone
<dobey> and i'd highly suggest looking at what WebOS does with content types in applications
<gusch> I still don't know why a descent content picker UI should requests a totally new data management. Those two are pretty different imho
<JoshStrobl> JohnLea!
<JohnLea> I'm muted now
<brunogirin> JohnLea: or a photo editing app
<bfiller> gusch: what do you mean?
<alecu> There should be no separate content pickers, we already have one and it's the dash. A new content picker should be just a new dash plugin
<dobey> alecu: why would you go back to the dash from within an app to select a picture to attach to an SMS for example?
<alecu> that way every app that needs to operate on a picture will indirectly ask the user for permission by opening the dash
<alecu> dobey: it should be opened again by the system, because it's the blessed way to search for pictures
<alecu> dobey: I mean, for any kind of content.
<dobey> i think that would be bad, perhaps less so on phones, but ore so on tablets, and much worse on workstations
<gusch> bfiller:I mean there is no need for a new "data layer" for providing a "content picker"
<lool> bfiller: the discussion covered a lot of interesting point, but I'm not sure we've taken a decision on having central databases + per-app databases vs. only per-app databases -- or did we?
<lool> *points
<bfiller> lool: I think we're saying per-app to start, with the ability to have per-app + central in the future
<brunogirin> dobey: it doesn't have to be the full dash, just a dash "control" that allows you to find the file
<lool> tvoss_: just a point on avoiding to show downloaded photos when browsing your own photos: this could be implemented either by tagging the photos in some way (e.g. metadata such as the app which created this photo), or with simple concepts such as albums
 * tedg is a little concerned that we're 42 m in and there's nothing in the Etherpad
<lool> tedg: ah exactly
<gusch> no
<kenvandine> tedg, and no work items
<gusch> just exposing the directory Pictures to mtp is ok - isn't it?
<dobey> JohnLea: can you maybe turn off video stream or something? you're very stuttery due to bandwidth it seems
<JohnLea> dobey; it's switched off!
<JohnLea> dobey; yes, bandwidth seems to have gone rubbish :-(
<dobey> JohnLea: thanks. it was off but then came back when you were just speaking. i see its off again now though :)
<dobey> aquarius_uds: probably a good thing to discuss in the next session about background tasks :)
<jdstrand> tvoss_: fyi, I am able to use etherpad by pausing the video in that page while having google+ in another window
<tvoss_> jdstrand, cool, thank you ... didn't work for me
<jdstrand> tvoss_: it took a few tries to get it to actually pause, but eventually it worked
<pipe2> thank you
<jdstrand> :)
<lool> JohnLea: muted maybe?
<lool> JohnLea: lots of lag
<JohnLea> can you hear me?
<lool> JohnLea: we can
<lool> JohnLea: just 5s later  :-)
<pipe2> good bye
<alecu> QUESTION: how will file synchronization apps (u1, dropbox) access the different silos?
<pmcgowan> tvoss_, ^^ this is similar to mtp needs
<jdstrand> tvoss_: I put in a few things to seed the therpad :)
<alecu> thank you all!
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-2 to: Track: Client | Background Task Service Augmenting the Application Lifecycle | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21763/client-1305-background-task-service/
<Guest83719> have we started yet? I have no video
<tedg> mfisch, Yes (just in case you still don't)
<mfisch> tedg: got it now, 4 reloads of the page were needed
<sforshee> a push notification service would allow something like an IM client to maintain some sort of connection while still allowing the phone to suspend
<mfisch> what was the 3rd thing Chicken said?
<sforshee> how are we going to allow the phone to suspend while maintaining network connections?
<tedg> tvoss_, We could require an app indicator for arbitrary stuff as well.
<tedg> Basically only allow background if you do.
<tvoss_> tedg, +1 :)
<ritz__> how about multi-window support ?
<ritz__> when two windows are in foreground
<ritz__> or multiple  floating windows
<lool> in the first ubuntu touch iteration, a single foreground app is running
<ritz__> yup
<ritz__> thanks :)
<faisal-ali> On the issue of downloading, how much control of the download would we give the application? Or would we just allow them to "request"?
<tvoss_> faisal-ali, it comes down to a request, plus option to cancel
<faisal-ali> okay
 * lool drops to other meeting
<cking> nice one
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-2 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305//client-2/ - http://ubottu.com/udslog/%23ubuntu-uds-client-2
<diwic> next session is about OSK. What does OSK stand for?
<mfisch> on screen keyboard
<mfisch> diwic: ^
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-2 to: Track: Client | OSK current state & thoughts on future | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21758/client-1305-unity-ui-unity8-osk/
<diwic> mfisch, thanks
<pmcgowan> kgunn, how much of the existing maliit server are we able to drop?
<pmcgowan> tvoss|dinner_lun,  ^^
<Saviq> http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1305-client-1305-unity-ui-unity8-osk
<pmcgowan> yes
<pmcgowan> and what of other keyboard options, 3rd party
<pmcgowan> right
<pmcgowan> yes that was my question
<pmcgowan> ok!
<pmcgowan> kgunn, I somewhat expected mir guys to at least guide it if not do it
<kgunn> pmcgowan: ack...
<kgunn> pmcgowan: its why i aske
<kgunn> asked
<tvoss> pmcgowan, sure, guidance needs to be given by Mir/Shell team, working closely together with tmoenicke
<pmcgowan> kgunn, I added the green
<pmcgowan> the planned section
<pmcgowan> kgunn, those are settings options
<pmcgowan> kgunn, do we intend the mir integration for v1
<netcurli> will there be different keyboard layouts by default? like qwertz for German
<pmcgowan> yes there should be
<pmcgowan> kgunn, sounds like yes
<tmoenicke> netcurli: yes
<netcurli> ok
<pmcgowan> bye
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-2 to: Track: Client | Provide a QML API for text to speech output | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21739/client-s-qml-tts-api/
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-2 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305//client-2/ - http://ubottu.com/udslog/%23ubuntu-uds-client-2
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-2 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/client-2/ - http://ubottu.com/udslog/%23ubuntu-uds-client-2
#ubuntu-uds-client-2 2013-05-15
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-2 to: Track: Client | Applications Development of UbuntuKylin | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21765/client-1305-ubuntukylin-applications-development/
<Guest77794> TigerLuo
<JackYu> hi, all
<csslayer> hi
<JackYu> csslayer, hi
<TigerLuo> hi
<JackYu> ypwong, it seems that my VPN got some problem, would you please help to chair the session first.
<maclin> csslayer, hi
<csslayer> maclin: sorry for interrupt.. is there a link for hangout?
<maclin> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/3f399901093affca6063d4113420c6417b76ccef?authuser=0&hl=en
<jzheng> csslayer, https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/3f399901093affca6063d4113420c6417b76ccef?authuser=0&hl=en
<csslayer> maclin: thanks!
<jzheng> csslayer, discussion is taken following "Whiteboard" on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntukylin/+spec/client-1305-ubuntukylin-applications-development
<maclin> csslayer:welcome
<PHLin> Some personal suggestion: mute you mic when you're not talking
<PHLin> Background noise is annoying
<app_>  æ»ç»work item æ²¡æ
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-2 to: Track: Client | UbuntuKylin Images | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21755/client-1305-ubuntukylin-images/
<smartboyhw_> Hi UbuntuKylin people;)
<kgunn> I would think you would want to support ARM
<liuxingapp> may be
<ypwong> http://releases.ubuntu.com/raring/
<kgunn> i assume you will want to support ubuntu touch in the near future as well
<liuxingapp> i think so it will support ubuntu touch ,may be develop app for ubuntu touch for chinese
<kgunn> today ubuntu touch development is happening on ARM
<kgunn> for the following devices
<kgunn> galaxy nexus & nexus4
<liuxingapp> yeah
<kgunn> it might be possible for you to leverage all that work (kernel/bootloader etc)
<kgunn> and test against those devices
<liuxingapp> yes test nexus4
<kgunn> wonder if QA team might be able to help with testing/using their infrastructure
<smartboyhw> balloons: ^
<liuxingapp> weather forecast for ubuntu touch UI look like nice
<kgunn> wonder if its using a program/binary name to create the string ?
<kgunn> bregma: ^
<kgunn> bregma: they are saying the "unity desktop" string can't be localized?
<liuxingapp> yes
<bregma> I can't find anything in the code like that, it may be a visual asset
<liuxingapp> i think it shoud can define for user
<bregma> at any rate, it needs a bug filed so we can follow up
<liuxingapp> i read unity code it write 'ubuntu desktop'
<zhangchao>   the language package translate  "unity desktop"  to âubuntuæ¡é¢â
<zyga> QUESTION: is there a seed file for ubuntu kylin
<ypwong> zyga, nope
<zyga> so that it can be installed remotely with netboot
<zyga> can we make one?
<zyga-uds> hi
<liuxingapp> good bye
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-2 to: Track: Client | Ubuntu Key Performance Indicators | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21728/qa-dashboard-kpi/
<gema> hi
<gema> do we have a link to the hangout?
<ypwong> zyga, i am not sure, do you have more information about that?
<roadmr> yay we have video
<roadmr> good/bad as in "works/doesn't work"? or do you want something quantitative so you can rather say "better/worse than yesterday?"
<kgunn> QUESTION: will this include mobile/arm platforms (of any kind)
<roadmr> but just a % is somewhat meaningless, right? what if it's 99% good but the 1% that's bad is what I need?
<zyga> ypwong: sure, sorry
<kgunn> just my 2 cents - for the most part app developers want to know what is stable (e.g. subsystems, i can use audio but not camera)
<gema> kgunn: yes
<gema> kgunn: wanna join the hangout?
<zyga> ypwong: I'd like to create a virtual machine or a netbooted phyisical machine that runs ubuntu kylin
<kgunn> whereas OEM's will care about "performance indicators"
<zyga> ypwong: to do that I need to know the set of packages that go into ubuntu kylin
<gema> kgunn: I am not sure if they'll care
<gema> we'll show the reference devices that are in the lab, ideally
<kgunn> gema: sure
<balloons> from a community perspective, we would love to see a page tracking what's "good", what's "bad" currently in the dev release
<roadmr> balloons: +1
<balloons> that can help drive efforts for everyone from development to QA to tester
<josepht> doanac: +1
<victorp_uds> gema, I dont think OEMs are going to be looking at it as such
<gema> victorp_uds: good point
<victorp_uds> maybe developers at the OEM team will, but they will have the same req that community guys
<gema> victorp_uds: ack
<balloons> this isn't really the session to bring it up, but hey, kgunn is here :-) I'd like to see smoke testing for the display stack (aka, Xorg and most importantly, Mir)
<gema> cjohnston: can you mute yourself whilst typing?
<kgunn> balloons: whatcya thinkin' ?....i'm more familiar with mir, where there's tons of unit testing & example clients
<kgunn> and i'm working with ThomiR on adding stress testing
<kgunn> which we think we might do short run stress testing to add in for CI of MP's
<balloons> kgunn, I saw the sessions but wasn't quite able to attend them sadly
<cgregan_uds> This sounds familiar
<balloons> kgunn, unit and stress testing is great.. I'm speaking of more at a system and integration level. I suppose the unity tests might solve some of this. But, I would like to see the display stack being run across a plethora of hardware
<balloons> there's a bunch of configurations.. drivers + graphics cards that it would be good to have some basic assurance is working properly
<kgunn> balloons: yeah, totally agree...i think system/integ tests are needed (as we finally get unity8 shell running on mir)
<alesage> gema, how did you do bootspeed, did you set a threshold, e.g.?
<kgunn> balloons: wrt hw configs, i would say pick 1 to hold as kind of golden
<kgunn> e.g. you would gate release on
<gema> alesage: bootspeed is a trend graph
<balloons> kgunn, yes on the ubuntu touch stuff, we get a bit of a pass because we can control the hw :-)
<gema> alesage: we keep measuring and show a line as we go
<kgunn> but to gate on multiple hw configs isn't realistic
<balloons> so phablet isn't so bad
<kgunn> balloons: actually...its just as bad....
<balloons> on the desktop, grabbing the big 3, with open/closed drivers is sufficient
<kgunn> balloons: we're just limiting exposure :)
<roadmr> how do you identify inflection points in the graph that need your attention? manually?
<balloons> so intel/amd/nvidia with amd open/closed, nvidia open/closed
<kgunn> balloons: agree on desktop approach
<balloons> kgunn, ofc, ofc.. It's only a baseline for assuring it works
<balloons> but I think that small number of setups should be doable for smoke testing
<kgunn> balloons: i do agree tho, mobile oem's will do loads of testing for tuning to their hw config....so they will understand
<kgunn> if we test against say nexus4 or something its  really only "reference"
<cgregan_uds> In the dashboard we spec'd a year ago the user determined the limits for notification which was stored in a db
<tvoss> gema, what is the eta for getting an iteration 0 up?
<tvoss> gema,  is there a blueprint that tracks this?
<gema> tvoss: yes, it's linked to the session, it's the qa-dashboard one
<cjohnston> tvoss: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/qa-s-dashboard is the dashboard BP
<tvoss> gema, cjohnston thanks
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-2 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/client-2/ - http://ubottu.com/udslog/%23ubuntu-uds-client-2
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-2 to: Track: Client | Connectivity (not networking) | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21783/client-1305-connectivity-not-networking/
<ptl> has the session started?
<cyphermox> ptl: yes
<pitti> there's no video yet
<cyphermox> can you see the video?
<roadmr> cyphermox: ?! I have no video?
<cyphermox> just a second
<roadmr> thanks!
<cyphermox> sorry, it wasn't on air yet
<cyphermox> seeing us now?
<sforshee> I don't see any video yet
<ptl> me too
<roadmr> cyphermox: nope, "please stand by"
<ptl> *neither
<cyphermox> should be a few seconds we're supposed to be on air now
<pitti> ah, now
<ptl> yes
<josepht> awe: yes
<ptl> I can see the video
<cyphermox> there's a slight delay it seems :D
<tedg> I can see it!
<sergiusens> awe_: yes
<plars> yes we can
<ptl> and 3G data
<ptl> we need 3G data \o/ till the end of this month :P
<cyphermox> if anyone things they should join the actual hangout, ping me plz
<cyphermox> *thinks
<cyphermox> or ping jasoncwarner :D
<seb128> cyphermox, you guys should just share the link on IRC ;-)
<seb128> cyphermox, I've been doing that and there was no issue so far
<jasoncwarner> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/621c24ff5f6a9e6a9bf540260cb27ea0275cc9c7?authuser=0&hl=en
<cyphermox> jasoncwarner: thanks!
<tedg> \o/
<tedg> cyphermox, Those are tracked in the indicator-backend blueprints
<tedg> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/indicator-backend
<cyphermox> ack
<tedg> awe_, oh no, it was already confusing enough with the number of ricardo's that we had!  ;-)
<sergiusens> awe_: cyphermox yeah, I can do it
<pitti> awe_: wrt udev, did you happen to try the current version in my PPA by any chance?
<cyphermox> pitti: I have not, remind later
<pitti> awe_: I know upstream systemd has done quite a lot of work to make all this work in containers
<awe_> pitti, no I haven't
<pitti> otherwise, please feel free to give me a WI to investigate thsi
<awe_> the bigger problem is that we're running android components which consume uevents
<pitti> hm, uevents are not meant to be "consumed" though?
<pitti> but I don't know what android changed in that regard
<awe_> pitti, maybe we can talk after the session
<awe_> I can't follow both threads at simultaneously
<pitti> *nod*
<tedg> Doesn't that require some UI changes?  (WPA Enterprise)
<awe_> yes
<tedg> It seems like we wouldn't be able to prioritize that work...
 * tedg is worried enough about the work items he has
<tedg> I think that's a 14.04 thing, not a 13.10 one.
<tedg> I think that we probably have a req open for the network UI work... if someone is here and interested
<tedg> awe_, cyphermox, ack
<sergiusens> cyphermox: mtp had patent issues I've been told
<sergiusens> mtp server that is
<cyphermox> tedg: what do you mean open req?
<cyphermox> tedg: I spoke to mpt about it, he knows my concerns, but I did mention it wasn't a priority
<tedg> Employee position.
<cyphermox> I'm just trying to avoid people pain when wpa enterprise (or anything else really) needs to be added and dramatically changes the design
<cyphermox> because that would just be sad
<awe_> pitti, the short answer re: udev is that when we started it in our container... it caused breakage in our images, so we disabled it
<cyphermox> awe_: btw, bluetooth session in a few hours at Google IO...
<pitti> awe_: I have a current (from yesterday) phablet install on my n7, so I can test a current version there
<awe_> I believe we could make it work, however no work has progressed on this due to our work to try and verify the container flip
<pitti> awe_: what should I look out for, i. e. how does the breakage manifest?
<awe_> pitti, you'd have to ask ChickenCutlass
<awe_> but again, I think we want to see how ogra makes out on the container flip work
<pitti> awe_: curious that nothing in our image actually listens to uevents; I had assumed that not much will work at all without them
<pitti> awe_: ack
<pitti> awe_: ok, let me know if you need anything
<awe_> pitti, will do
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-2 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/client-2/ - http://ubottu.com/udslog/%23ubuntu-uds-client-2
#ubuntu-uds-client-2 2013-05-16
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-2 to: Track: Client | Autopilot support for previous Ubuntu releases | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21796/client-1305-autopilot-old-builds/
<thomi> balloons: ready to join us in the fishbowl?
<balloons> thomi, linky? I have the wonderful fortune of hosting another session :-)
<balloons> so I'll launch that then hop into this one
<thomi> balloons: haven't got it yet. wil PM you
<jasoncwarner> hangout for Autopilot session: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/e23baffdc642146a169a4f631dbf4c8e19efd198?authuser=0&hl=en
<balloons> ohh bother, maybe I can't join 2 at once :-(
<balloons> so it sounds like no quantal support
<dbarth> mmrazik, thomi: sorry, i beg to difer; it would be great to have the last changes on 12.04 for testing the greeter/session scenario
<dbarth> i'd like to know whether someone can help on fixing the gtk module, or whether i should take that on my plate
<dbarth> no gripes, just to know where to go
<balloons> i don't see an issue with no quantal or precise support for my needs / community needs.. others can chime in if they disagree :-)
<gema> dbarth: there was a session yesterday and they agreed to maintain it (I think)
<balloons> I think most will be running saucy or raring
<gema> or fix it and then someone else can maintain it
<balloons> dbarth, yes, check out this session: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-s-testing-technologies
<balloons> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21727/community-s-upstream-test-development/
<dbarth> ok, sorry; i was getting mixed messages on that front
<mmrazik> dbarth: regarding 12.04 is there any development on top of 12.04?
<dbarth> ok
<mmrazik> aren't you moving to something more recent?
<dbarth> i can do the work, that's not the problem; if you guys (rightly) think it's not a wise use of resources
<sergiusens> ChrisGagnon-uds: isn't UfA using AP?
<dbarth> yup, we can do that for now; maybe that will help others; otherwise at least it will unblock our tests on the good old platform
<dbarth> i appreciate that you guys have tons of your plate and i don't mind dirtying my hands in gtk for a bit to get that sorted
<dbarth> ;)
<mmrazik> ok dbarth :)
<dbarth> and so with that said; consider precise and quantal as non targets now ;)
<olli> QUESTION: did you guys cover backward compatibility yet?
<olli> just asking as one of the reasons why we can't land smart scopes atm is that apparently 1.4 broke the regression tests
<gema> backward compatibility of the shell, of ubuntu or of autopilot being able to run old tests?
<olli> which is somewhat unfortunate
<gema> (sorry, didn't understand the question)
<olli> I was thinking of the latter gema
<gema> olli: ack
<sergiusens> mmrazik: cwayne tells me he'd join soon and that they are planning on using it
<olli> mmrazik, ^
<gema> thomi: indeed x)
<mmrazik> olli: do you have more details on that?
<mmrazik> olli: 1.3 indeed broke the compatibility because of the features we needed to support touch
<olli> that's what didrocks & pawel told me
<olli> ok
<mmrazik> olli: I didn't know there are autopilot tests for scopes
<mmrazik> olli: we can help them with porting
<mmrazik> to 1.3
<gema> COMMENT: It'd be good to know that any tests we write now are going to be able to run in the future, with the caveat of course that if the shell changes, the tests will need changing probably as well
<olli> I think that with a growing number of test cases keeping them somewhat stable where possible should be a goal
<sergiusens> mmrazik: to be honest, the change could of been made without breaking... code base would of been ugly but it would of been doable
<gema> sergiusens: +1000
<mmrazik> gema: I think you need to make sure you are using autopilot 1.3
<mmrazik> and not the one from raring
<gema> mmrazik: I will make sure of that
<thomi> any autopilot questions?
<gema> thomi: or if you change it, you do extend it, not break compability
<gema> thomi: you can add your new stuff without breaking the old
 * gema has a simplistic view of things...
<sergiusens> fginther: do you need to ppa_sync to force a rebuild?
<olli> well, sometimes (e.g. when the code base becomes too "ugly" due to providing compatibility) you might decide to break it
<balloons> i found the migration from autopilot 1.2 to autopilot 1.3 seemingly easy..
<balloons> fingers crossed, I haven't converted many yet
<gema> olli: agreed, but should be the exception, rather than the norm from one release to the next
<sergiusens> balloons: it is, it's just many projects and no big announcements ;-)
<gema> olli: it seems normal to me that with the new shell things had to change on the testing side as well
<sergiusens> thomi: fginther: you can backout
<fginther> sergiusens, I'm not sure I understand the question. (lag and all)
<gema> fginther: are you also a contact person for autopilot (a dev) in a US timezone?
<sergiusens> fginther: thomi if it was a superseeded package it's doable
<fginther> gema, yes
<mmrazik> gema: fginther and ChrisGagnon are involved in autopilot
<sergiusens> no need for dput
<fginther> sergiusens, thx
<gema> mmrazik, fginther: excellent, thanks
<mmrazik> with Chris being fairly new to the codebase
 * gema nods at thomi's complain for timezone problems :D
<plars> you are a victim of autopilot's popularity :)
<sergiusens> thomi: you should use the mailing list more
<plars> +1, '/query thomi' is always helpful, but doesn't scale and isn't fair to thomi
<veebers> thomi: a channel or a mailing list sounds good
<sergiusens> thomi: the announcement of 1.3 there would of been a good start
<ChrisGagnon-uds> +1 an autopilot channel on freenode is a good idea
<gema> but then others read it and can answer, or you could have "Vanguards"
<balloons> thomi, you sleep? lol
<cwayne> i thought we made an autopilot users mailing list last uds?
<plars> I like mailing list for dev discussion, irc for quick questions and general discussion
<gema> cwayne: some questions can be dealt with much quicker than by email
<thomi> http://unity.ubuntu.com/autopilot/porting/porting.html
<gema> cwayne: the problem is that PM-ing thomi takes a full day for us in europe
<thomi> PORTING GUIDE ^^
<balloons> it might be easier for the people "watching" for questions to have a specific channel
<cwayne> gema: i was just asking if it was created, not suggesting it as the only form of communication
<balloons> but I have no problem with everyone hanging in #ubuntu-quality
<gema> cwayne: ahhh, I thought it was created x)
<balloons> we'll try not and ping thomi constantly :-)
<gema> balloons: I am going to make a script that does "/query thomi ping"
<thomi> any final questions?
<gema> then when he pongs next day I ask x)
<thomi> otherwise, we are outta here
<thomi> 10 seconds
<balloons> gema, yea i guess i'm lucky i can catch him first thing in the morning
<gema> balloons: indeed
<thomi> jasoncwarner: we're done
<balloons> thanks everyone :-)
<gema> thanks guys
<dbarth> thanks guys
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-2 to: Track: Client | Print Dialog Design for Ubuntu Touch | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21737/client-1305-mobile-print-dialog/
<jasoncwarner> hangout for print dialogue session https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/5275aee2933c6dfbac5ad792b10ca7fceb4b9bba?authuser=0&hl=en
 * tedg doesn't see video
<jasoncwarner> hi everyone
<jasoncwarner> sorry, running a bit late. trying to wrangle some folks!
<kgunn> np
<jasoncwarner> kgunn: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/5275aee2933c6dfbac5ad792b10ca7fceb4b9bba?authuser=0&hl=en
<jasoncwarner> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/5275aee2933c6dfbac5ad792b10ca7fceb4b9bba?authuser=0&hl=en
<jasoncwarner> tedg care to join the hangout https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/5275aee2933c6dfbac5ad792b10ca7fceb4b9bba?authuser=0&hl=en
<tedg> Sure
<tkamppeter> jasoncwarner, there is nothing written up, should I simple add the work item "Contact design" to the Blueprint?
<jasoncwarner> tkamppeter: yes, please do
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-2 to: Track: Client | PDF Renderer for Ubuntu Touch | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21738/client-1305-pdf-renderer-for-ubuntu-touch/
<tsdgeos> is the video for the pdf thing on?
<seb128> tsdgeos, I think I can dropped from the schedule due to conflict, but check with tkamppeter
<seb128> tkamppeter_,
<tsdgeos> ok
<tsdgeos> no worries
<tkamppeter> tsdgeos, this session was canceled.
<tsdgeos> it would have been cool if it was canclled not like 5 minutes ago :D
<tkamppeter> tsdgeos, but if you have any contribution to this question, fell free to post here on IRC now.
<tsdgeos> i already gave you my contrbiuion 2 months ago
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-2 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/client-2/ - http://ubottu.com/udslog/%23ubuntu-uds-client-2
<tkamppeter> tsdgeos, are you employee at canonical? Then you should join on #canonical at Canonical.
<tsdgeos> uh?
<tsdgeos> are we not a free an open souce community now?
<tsdgeos> what difference does it make if i'm a canonical employee or not?
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-2 to: Track: Client | Provide more render types for Dash lens | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21772/client-1305-more-render-types-for-dash/
<whzhang>  https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/b918f0e322d689c3a0f0933e1519752ab305f489?authuser=0&hl=en
<whzhang> is Andrea on line?
<jasoncwarner> Hi folks. we'll get started in a few minutes
<jasoncwarner> just waiting for a few more people to join the hangout
<jasoncwarner> HI all - This session is going to get cancelled. Unfortunately some necessary people are not available. The discussion will be taken to the mailing lists instead. Sorry for the late notice.
<jasoncwarner> any concerns, get in touch with me.
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-2 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/client-2/ - http://ubottu.com/udslog/%23ubuntu-uds-client-2
