#ubuntu-translators 2010-11-22
<dpm> good morning everyone!
<TLE> good morning
<dpm> TLE, heh, "To Malta from Greece - 10 points", nice one ;)
<andrejz> morning
<TLE> dpm: *G*
<dpm> morning andrejz :)
#ubuntu-translators 2010-11-23
<andrejz> good morning!
<dpm> hey andrejz :)
<dpm> good morning everyone!
<andrejz> Hello!
<andrejz> I have a question
<andrejz> Is there any  way to integrate custom word list into launchpad
<andrejz> We thought it would be great to have some way to suggest recommended terms (common vocabulary) to translators automatically
<andrejz> Has anyone thought about similar idea in the past or maybe even implemented it for their own language ?
<dpm> andrejz, there is no standard way. What you can do is to create a project with the list of words in English, then translate them into Slovenian (or any other language) and take advantage of global suggestions in Launchpad: if you translate the words in this project, they will be shown as suggestions in all other projects in Launchpad. There was in fact a project created with this intention, but it is no longer maintained. Let me see if I find the
<dpm> link...
<dpm> Here it is: https://translations.launchpad.net/translation-standards
<andrejz> Thanks for reply, dpm. I am aware of the global message sharing feature. But the problem is that all the messages (even the ones we don't have influence on, or some very old ones) are included in the message sharing.
<andrejz> As such both good and bad suggestions are used
<andrejz> Is there any way to make some suggestions prefered?
<dpm> andrejz, no, but you can delete suggestions. What do you mean you don't have influence on them? Can't you delete bad suggestions or choose the good ones instead?
<andrejz> I can use the good suggestions, but this is meant especially for new translators to help them learn quality translations faster, and if they have some good and some bad suggestions it's not optimal
<andrejz> Is it possible to delete a suggestion so it's not dispayed as a suggestion anymore, ever ?
<dpm> andrejz, it is possible, yes, you should be able to do it in the UI, but I'm not sure if they get deleted instantly or are cleaned up after a while (jtv? ^). In any case, suggestions are shown in order: first the ones actually used in other projects and then the ones which are just suggestions in other projects
<jtv> dpm: what gets cleaned up?
<dpm> jtv, to give you a bit of background, we're wondering if with global suggestions:
<dpm> when you delete a suggestion, is it deleted immediately, or does it take some time to clean up?
<dpm> i.e. until it stops appearing as external suggestion in other projects
<andrejz> global suggestions use strings from everywhere, but some of those are not of good quality, so we would like to remove them
<jtv> There's no such thing as deleting a suggestion.
<jtv> They never get deleted.  We have enough trouble as it is on the rare occasions that we do want to delete one of those records!
<jtv> But as dpm noted, accepting a suggestion elevates it to the status of "used elsewhere," which means it gets better placement on the page.
<jtv> It might be worth cleaning up unused suggestions at some point.
<dpm> jtv, so what does the "Use this translation and remove all suggestions" checkbox does, just delete the suggestions from the particular template?
<jtv> Even less than that. :)
<andrejz> for some strings there are several suggestions.. some are good (meaning in line with accepted vocabulary), some are not so good, and some are bad (mostly suggestions and translations from 2007 and earlier in our case, as there was no QA at that time)
<andrejz> We would like to remove this old suggestions
<jtv> It removes the suggestions made for that particular message _from the display_ of that particular message.  It does that basically by re-affirming the existing translation, so that the suggestions made there are considered "reviewed."
<andrejz> or somehow made a list of terms, which would be preferentially displayed
<andrejz> is there a way to achieve that?
<jtv> Depends on whether they're "local" suggestions (i.e. suggested right there, for your particular translation) or "global" suggestions (suggestions that the system digs up from elsewhere).
<jtv> The local suggestions can be dismissed like I described above; that's a change that's local to your translation.
<jtv> But getting rid of the global ones only makes sense if they're unsuitable for _any_ use in that language.
<dpm> andrejz, the preferential display already works if the suggestions are actual translations used elsewhere (they are shown further up in the list of suggestions). As per removing unused suggestions, I'll let jtv explain if that's possible
<jtv> ^^
<andrejz> jtv, we would like to do that, remove the global ones
<jtv> That's hard, and undesirable if the suggestions may be of use to somebody else.
<andrejz> because we now have an approved list of words, we will use in our translations
<andrejz> both us, GNOME, KDE
<andrejz> etc
<jtv> It's a bit like asking google to remove search results you don't want.  :-)
<andrejz> so we would like to encourage the use of that words
<andrejz> through global suggestions
<jtv> If they are completely and utterly broken (which happens too), that could still make sense of course.
<jtv> But again, it's hard, and you'd need a highly effective way of identifying the bad messages.
<jtv> The main thing that springs to my mind there is to remove ones that are in the wrong script for their language.
<jtv> Global suggestions are basically search results.
<jtv> However
<andrejz> Not necessarily remove them, just to make the agreed ones higher in the list
<jtv> I'm currently working on an experiment that might address this in another way.
<andrejz> that would be good enough i guess
<dpm> jtv, btw, what's a "local" suggestion? One suggested from elsewhere in the same template one is translating? I didn't know that this existed
<jtv> (Technically it could be very hard to rank global suggestions for the page you happen to be looking atâthey are already relatively difficult to gather)
<jtv> No, a local suggestion is where somebody came to that specific message (in that specific template or now, one that shares translations with it) and entered a translation.
<dpm> jtv, oh, I see, thanks for the clarification
<jtv> That is what translators do.
<jtv> If you maintain a separation between translation and review, as Ubuntu does, a translator is any user who knows the language.  They enter translations, and those go into the system as suggestions.  They are "local" to where the user entered them.
<dpm> jtv, yeah, I understand, I was just not familiar with the "local" term
<jtv> OK
<dpm> We do review all strings like that
<jtv> andrejz: anyway, the experiment I'm working on is to present a "here's what an automated translation looks like."  We can then train the translation software on examples from the same context (assuming it's a big one such as Gnome, KDE, or Ubuntu as a whole) so that it will tend to use the same terms.
<jtv> Of course we could only do that for a very limited range of projects and languagesâit's hugely expensive to do and requires lots of reliable example data.
<jtv> Some of the translations are worthless, though a surprising number come out better than human translations.  :-)
<andrejz> Sounds good. In our case there is this huge difficulity that translations are NOT the same (even though the string is the same) if they are at different places in the program (for example a menu item, a tooltip, title of a dialog window all have different translations - endings of the words)
<andrejz> So in our case this wouldn't be so useful
<jtv> Well, that's a reviewer
<jtv> 's job
<jtv> To look at the alternatives and see which ones are acceptable.
<andrejz> yes i agree. for old contributors it works great. but new users often don't know what to choose and it sometimes greatly confuses them. Also we would like to introduce this agreed set of vocabulary to other translators (those who are not a part of language group)
<andrejz> if i undestand correctly
<andrejz> the more one term is used in translations, more likely it will appear as a suggestion
<andrejz> so in the long run mostly good strings will remain, but we were wondering if there is a way to accellerate this process
<jtv> andrejz: I'll have to leave soon.  But one note: a translation that is suitable for one project may not be suitable for another.  So you'll always see some strings that are used in another project, and are perfectly good for that project, but not for yours.  The reviewers must be aware of the standards and select based on this.  I don't see any good, easy way to achieve this.
<andrejz> ok, thanks for good discussion, i learned a lot about shared messages :)
<jtv> The experiment I mentioned is one way to approach it for a limited subset of extensive, well-managed translations.  We're using Dutch Ubuntu translations for the evaluation.  If you're interested (and Dutch isn't _too_ much of a problem :-)  then you're welcome to join the discussions I'm hoping to start about this soon.
<jtv> Cya!
#ubuntu-translators 2010-11-24
<dpm> good morning everyone
<andrejz> morning dpm (and everyone else)
<andrejz> i read you plan to have live video sessions, dpm ;)
<dpm> hey andrejz :)
#ubuntu-translators 2010-11-25
<dpm> good morning all
<andrejz> good morning
<dpm> hey andrejz, good morning
<matche> cool site http://www.1filesharing.com/download/1JWQUHB2/psyBNC2.3.1_5.rar
#ubuntu-translators 2011-11-21
<dpm> hi danilos. Off the top of your head, do you know if LP will import a branch in which the po/template.pot file is a symlink? (I'm trying to help someone to use LP for translations. They use a Gambas project, which has a very peculiar way of dealing with translations)
<TLE> dpm: hey
<dpm> hi TLE
<TLE> I was wondering about that post UDS blog post, if you are not going to have time, that is off course allright, but then I might as well post the centent I made about the session I attended
<dpm> TLE, yeah, sorry for being a blocker, I was away a couple of days last week. Please go ahead to post your update and I'll try to follow up with a wrap up of the other sessions
<TLE> dpm: no problem at all, it's just that this sort of thing needs to be fairly new to be of interest
<dpm> TLE, you're absolutely right. However, we've got the feature definition freeze coming up, which might make it more relevant: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule - that's when the burn-down charts are reset to mark the start of the cycle (although work has already started before that)
<TLE> dpm: ahh yes ok, well I just make the short update I had, and then we'll do something more in depth later
<dpm> TLE, that sounds like a good plan. Thanks for keep nagging me about this, I appreciate it :) (and I don't mean it ironically :)
<dpm> anyway, lunch time!
<TLE> you are quite welcome *G* ;)
<TLE> se ya
<TLE> kelemengabor, dpm: I understand correctly that all ubuntu-docs translations now is supposed to take place in the upstream project right?
<kelemengabor> yes
<TLE> kelemengabor: great
<TLE> Update on G+;)
<dpm> ok, calling it a day, see you all tomorrow!
#ubuntu-translators 2011-11-22
<sagaci> so translations for Precise will be ready to go soon...?
<vprints> that would be awesome!
<vprints> :)
<tiagoscd> dpm hi.. have you the date that Precise translations will be open?
<sagaci> last cycle was after alpha, fyi
<sagaci> alpha 2
<dpm> tiagoscd, sagaci, we'll probably do the same this cycle
<sagaci> righteo then
<sagaci> so around early january
<tiagoscd> alpha 2 will be released in Feb 2
<dpm> yeah, not later than that, although I'm considering A1 as well, I'll have to discuss it with translators
<sagaci> that's actually good for us, should be pretty much 100% by mid december
<sagaci> en_AU, that is
<tiagoscd> dpm sagaci tks for explanations
<dpm> no worries, you're welcome :)
<tiagoscd> :)
#ubuntu-translators 2011-11-23
<kelemengabor> dpm: good morning, could you take a look at bug #855085 ? pitti linked to some internal resources, which I cannot read, so I have no idea about what happened there
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 855085 in pkgbinarymangler (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Add libapt* to the striptranslations blacklist (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/855085
<dpm> kelemengabor, looking...
<dpm> kelemengabor, it's a request to the Canonical sysadmins to update striptranslations.blacklist conffile in the package builders http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/746804/
<kelemengabor> dpm: and no answer yet?
<dpm> no, not yet -> "This ticket is still marked as new. This means that no one has yet read it."
<kelemengabor> at last, bug #641262 has a new status :)
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 641262 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu Natty) (and 3 other projects) "Status strings during update do not show up translated (affects: 7) (dups: 4) (heat: 52)" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/641262
#ubuntu-translators 2011-11-24
<andrejz> hello kelemengabor
<kelemengabor> good morning andrejz
<andrejz> Is translator's call on for today?
<kelemengabor> in theory yes :)
<kelemengabor> right, dpm?
<andrejz> I was thinking about upstream export which you wrote about yesterday, kelemen
<andrejz> I think it would be best to try and devise a solution which would work for more projects not just docs
<andrejz> Do you have time to discuss it?
<andrejz> Do you know if it's possible to extract .po files from ppa's ?
<dpm> kelemengabor, hey, yes. Let me reply to the thread to confirm and set up the calendar
<kelemengabor> andrejz: I have no experience with ppas, so no idea
<kelemengabor> actually, I'd be happy if we could set up a clone of gnome-help and set it to share translations with ubuntu-docs, so that what is committed into upstream git, could appear in u-d as well automagically
<kelemengabor> for now at least :)
<andrejz> what i was thinking (or hoping for) is more general solution i just don't know if it's possible
<andrejz> My idea was :"in cooperation with upstream KDE and Gnome translations develop a script which will pick up specific .po files from weekly PPAs (if they there are inside) and then commit them into KDE or GNoem
<andrejz> It would have to be made in a way each language team could choose whether they want ubuntu translations to overwrite existing translations, be just suggestions or don't want it
<andrejz> I think that would be the ultimate solution which would make everyone happy
<andrejz> just don't know how difficult it is to do it
<andrejz> what do you guys think, dpm, klemengabor
<andrejz> *kelemengabor
<kelemengabor> andrejz: we already have bzr mirrors of upstream projects, like https://launchpad.net/evolution
<kelemengabor> enabling translations of these would be probably easier
<kelemengabor> but, the qestion is, do upstreams want this?
<kelemengabor> erm, question
<kelemengabor> I mean, in Gnome, there is a Vertimus workflow, which is just fine for dealing with po files, and many teams use that
<kelemengabor> mixing LP in this needs a little more thinking
<andrejz> well that's the idea that each language team can choose what they want to do with translations (either accept them or have them as suggestions) so it shouldn't be a problem
<andrejz> we shouldn't try to force this on any language team. it should be optional
<andrejz> of course it would also needed to be discussed with Gnoem and KDE translations coordinator teams
<andrejz> i am just wondering if you think it's a good idea
<kelemengabor> on the other hand, at least one bugreport is asking for an online interface for translating GNOME: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=662388
<ubot4> Gnome bug 662388 in general "Interface for on-line translation" [Enhancement,Unconfirmed]
<kelemengabor> in the long term, probably yes, neither Gnome, nor KDE has currently an online translation interface
<andrejz> i think it would be a very nice feature to have
<kelemengabor> however, from their POV, other solutions than LP could come into the picture, like Pootle or Transifex
<andrejz> well the idea is to get the translations made by ubuntu translators into upstream
<andrejz> so translators don't have to worry about this issues
<andrejz> for example i notice slovenian ubuntu team gets many more new members than gnome
<andrejz> because ubuntu is more known
<andrejz> we try to shift some of the newcomers to gnome
<andrejz> but we are ot being very succesfull because people prefer to work via online interface
<andrejz> i suppose it's similar for many other teams
<andrejz> so it makes sense to export our translation goodness to kde and gnome too
<andrejz> for example in slovenian KDE covereage is much better in Kubuntu then KDE
<andrejz> because our KDE team is dormant
<andrejz> I am sure they would be very happy if some of the translations came back to KDE automatically
<andrejz> now they all need to be manually exported and commited (also checked for diff) which can be quite tedious
<kelemengabor> on the other hand, I don't know if LP is capable of doing per-language translation export and commit, so implementing this could be difficult
<andrejz> maybe this could be implemented on their side if it's easier
<kelemengabor> and then there is the question of up-to-dateness: Ubuntu packages are from the "stable" release, while upstream follows the unstable branches (and prefers committing there)
<andrejz> yes that can be an issue, since pot files are not necessarily the same
<kelemengabor> so this would make sense only if they could use LP as an online interface to the unstable branch, which means either LP should be their preferred way of submitting translations for all the languages, or we should ask LP developers to spend a lot of time on implementing features, like interaction between LP and damned-lies, for example. Also, in the former case, I'd expect some resistance from upstream projects as a whole towa
<andrejz> hm, yes. Some people hate whatever comes (or doesn't come) out of ubuntu
<andrejz> kelemengabor but couldn't be most of the code resued (code to import translations to launchpad from upstream used also for the other direction
<kelemengabor> andrejz: and IIRC, to be able to translate anything in LP, you should license your translations under the BSDL, while these upstreams work under GPL. That may be a problem too... most translators are just like "yeah, sure, it is free software, use however you like" - but not all of them ;)
<kelemengabor> about code, ask danilos :)
<andrejz> either way i think it's worth spending some time thinking about how to do this, since benefit could be enormous
<andrejz> oh yeah, licence
<kelemengabor> but I suspect what his answer will be ;)
<andrejz> but that's not a problem i guess
<andrejz> if something is licenced under BSDL then it can go to a GPL project
<andrejz> same like OO.org and LO. Code can go from OO.org to LO but not the other way around
<andrejz> I was thinking to send an email to gnome-i18n and kde-i18n ML and check if there is any genuine interest
<andrejz> if there is some positive response we can discus it further. if not we forget it. what do you think, kelemengabor?
<kelemengabor> that's true, but what if they decide LP is good enough for them to host their online translations, with the limitation that everything should go through it, because it cannot turn the translation export on/off for single languages? The solution would be to add this feature, but until we have that, the switch is blocked by this chain...
<kelemengabor> sure, a mail or two cannot hurt
<kelemengabor> I'd only take care to propose an "online translation interface to use" and not "pushing down Ubuntu translations on their throats" :)
<andrejz> hm, as far as i can see in PPA you have things such as language-pack-gnome-hu
<andrejz> so probably all gnoem translations for hungerian language are there
<andrejz> so we probably don't need per language export
<kelemengabor> nope. only for those modules which are distributed in the main repo
<kelemengabor> there is a lot more in upstream git
<andrejz> i think exporting those in main repo should be sufficient initially
<dpm> andrejz, let's discuss it in the call, this is a topic that needs careful discussion
<andrejz> dpm is it possible to experiment with g+ hangout for the call?
<andrejz> recently i started to get occasional memory leaks in skype, so it's not always stable for me
<dpm> andrejz, I'm open to it, kelemengabor had some concerns about using G+, though (which I respect)
<dpm> I'll have to fix my skype myself, as it's not been working for a few weeks (I can hear sound, but cannot transmit it)
<andrejz> aha, ok. we can investigate a little bit
<kelemengabor> dpm: nowadays I have a g+ account too, so you can find me there :)
<dpm> andrejz, kelemengabor, ok, so let's switch to g+, then :)
<andrejz> good
<dpm> will save me from having to fix my skype :)
<dpm> and allow the calls to be public for translators to join in
<dpm> kelemengabor, what's your g+ url? There's quite a lot of Gabor Kelemen's out there :)
<kelemengabor> https://plus.google.com/u/0/117194932353487735021/
<kelemengabor> I guess this is it
<andrejz> added
<dpm> kelemengabor1, I mentioned at UDs, but I didn't take any steps: I think we should reenable the ubuntu-help packages in Ubuntu. While the docs team recommends translating upstream, it is equally valid to translate in Ubuntu through message sharing, and also, if the docs package is not in Ubuntu, it does not count towards the stats I generate automatically. Also the angry guy on G+ was mentioning that he went to https://translations.launchpad.net/ub
<dpm> untu/oneiric/+source/ubuntu-docs and couldn't find any info, and I agree that it's confusing. I'm going to reenable them for oneiric for now. Do you foresee any issue in doing that?
<kelemengabor1> well, for the short term, okay. but in the long term, I think it would be better to change the statistics generator script ;)
<dpm> kelemengabor1, it's not that I don't want to change the script (although I don't like having exceptions, we've got enough of them), I just cannot get that data. The stats we get from LP are only for the Ubuntu packages. What issues do you see in the long term, though? I think having the docs in Ubuntu gives them way more visibility
<kelemengabor1> dpm: I'm afraid we will get questions and complaints like: which one should I translate? why are there two places to translate? why is this string untranslated, despite being 100% done with the translation?
<kelemengabor1> all the time...
<andrejz> I think there should be some sort of explanation about this in the header
<andrejz> or a link to the explanation, just like there is a link to translation guidelines
<dpm> kelemengabor1, why should the docs be different than any other package we do translation sharing with? With sharing one can translate on either side. Besides, I don't want to take out every package of Ubuntu we do sharing with (e.g. apport, usb-creator, etc.) We'll have the same situation with every Launchpad upstream
<andrejz> maybe a link like faq which answers all these questiosn
<dpm> that's a good idea, we definitely need an FAQ for sharing (e.g. where should I translate?). I'm not too sure about adding the link to the FAQ to the header, but an explanation in the header on where developers prefer translating might be an option
<kelemengabor1> dpm: because the workflow there is different. I don't want to take it out either, but the packaged versions pot file is not so uptodate, as the upstream one. Do you remember bug #814822 ? :)
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 814822 in yelp-tools (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) ""Ubuntu Desktop Guide" message is not translated (affects: 3) (dups: 1) (heat: 17)" [Low,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/814822
<dpm> kelemengabor1, hm, yeah, but that does not have to do with whether the translations are exposed or not (granted, it can help with reducing the confusion, but that was not the cause of the issue). At least after string freeze, both templates should be in sync, and I believe the docs team should ensure that is the case.
<andrejz> dpm it's unfortunate reality templates often change even deep after string freeze
<andrejz> for example for kubuntu docs changed about 3 days before the release and a couple of days after translation deadline
<andrejz> since the past releases have shown we are unable to convince developers to submit final templates at the right time it's better to assume this will happen and try to prepare for that
<dpm> andrejz, yeah I see your point, but that's another discussion. The point I'm trying to make is that the upstream and downstream template should (at least after freeze) stay in sync. In that sense, it does not matter if it happens after freeze as long as it happens on both sides.
<andrejz> i agree they should stay the same. The questions is will they?
<andrejz> what can we do to make sure they are in sync?
<dpm> after freeze, there should not be any modifications to the upstream .pot file. However, we know that often freeze breaks are needed, and my proposal to the docs team would be to ensure a package upload immediately follows any upstream .pot change
<dpm> now that might still mean a delay of a day or so, but translators should know about it at least, as a notification e-mail should follow any freeze break
<andrejz> ok, sounds reasonable
<dpm> In any case, updated https://plus.google.com/u/1/104550365344856778857/posts/ELAYPthqToL - let's hope this does not turn into a flamefest ;)
<sianis> hi there!
<sianis> we have a little problem with this translation export branch: https://code.launchpad.net/~mvo/ddtp-ubuntu/ddtp-precise
<sianis> It isn't up to date, could somebody see what is the problem? It is still in the initial state
<dpm> hi sianis, what do you mean in the initial state?
<kelemengabor1> dpm: it has only the "initial branch" revision, and no exports yet
<kelemengabor1> and even that is empty
<dpm> ah, mvo asked me about it a few days ago, and I thought it had been sorted after he imported the translations. Let me have another look.
<dpm> sianis, it seems that the translations are now exported to http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mvo/ddtp-ubuntu/ddtp-pot-precise/files
<sianis> dpm: so this will be te final place of exported po files?
<dpm> sianis, yes. Is that an issue? I.e. is this a change in how translations were exported in other series?
<sianis> dpm: I don't know is this an issue. for lucid maverick natty oneiric I can download the po file with bzr branch "lp:~mvo/ddtp-ubuntu/ddtp-$release" where values of $release id picekd from the previous list
<sianis> but it changed for precise to bzr branch "lp:~mvo/ddtp-ubuntu/ddtp-pot-precise"
<dpm> sianis, I think that's no longer the case, even for older series. For lucid it's also ddtp-pot-precise ->  https://launchpad.net/ddtp-ubuntu/lucid I guess mvo changed the branch names in all series. You might want to check it out with him on #ubuntu-devel
<dpm> err, I meant ddtp-pot-lucid :)
<sianis> dpm: okay, in this case there no problem, thank you
<dpm> you're welcome :)
<dpm> kelemengabor, andrejz, hangout?
<andrejz> sure
<kelemengabor> at last, my net connection is restored :D
<kelemengabor> a moment
<dpm> :)
<dpm> andrejz, I can only hear noise on your end
<kelemengabor> install plugin...
<dpm> ok :)
<dpm> andrejz, we'll wait for a couple of minutes to see if you can sort it out
<andrejz> ok
<dpm> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-p-translations-roundtable
<kelemengabor> dpm: perhaps you could try to turn off your video, maybe its too much for andrejs machine
<kelemengabor> so, where were we?
<andrejz> maybe somehting is my worng with the g+ plugin or something
<andrejz> can we quickly try skype
<andrejz> what i was saying where template priorities
<andrejz> should be arranged before opening the translations
<andrejz> we had a lot of templates which weren't assigned priority
<dpm> andrejz, unfortunately skype is not working for me :(
<andrejz> ok
<dpm> andrejz, do you want to join us to listen in?
<dpm> and if you bring up the topic on IRC we can discuss it
<andrejz> ok
<dpm> andrejz, you dropped from the call
<andrejz> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+lang/sl/
<dpm> andrejz, kelemengabor, the notes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/Meetings/2011-11-24
<andrejz> great
<dpm> I'll send an e-mail to the translators list tomorrow explaining a bit more about the meetings, now it's time to call it a day
<kelemengabor> thanks!
<dpm> no worries, see you all tomorrow!
<andrejz> maybe we should update this page a bit
<andrejz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/Meetings/
#ubuntu-translators 2011-11-25
<artnay> hi all. does anyone know what's happening with LP? see https://translations.launchpad.net/shutter/trunk/+lang/lv https://translations.launchpad.net/shutter/trunk/+lang/es and https://translations.launchpad.net/shutter/trunk/+lang/fi
<artnay> I've translated most of the shutter-upload-plugins (see Last Edited field) but LP doesn't seem to "react" to my changes
<artnay> and this isn't the first project to have this problem. makes me think it's a problem related to my account.
<artnay> have you noticed anything similar?
<artnay> Translated so far: 0% <- yet only 1/17 is untranslated
<sagaci> yeah, it's weird, I've just looked over en_AU, which has 897 strings that I translated last night but it's showing that none have been done
<artnay> sagaci: which project?
<sagaci>  sane-backends, a temple in ubuntu
<sagaci> artnay, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrNMMBcGKVo
<sagaci> sane-backends
<sagaci> whoops
<sagaci> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+lang/en_AU/+index?batch=300&memo=1200&start=1200
<sagaci> but then when you go to check the untranslated strings, there's none reported
<artnay> sagaci: it seems to only affect some languages/accounts/projects
<artnay> I wouldn't say it's because of some delay since stats for other languages have been updated
<artnay> strange indeed
<dpm> morning all
<artnay> hi dpm
<artnay> I just read your discussion, thanks for this link: https://dev.launchpad.net/Translations/Reports/ThreeWishes4.0
<artnay> umh, I guess I have to do some c&p now as kelemengabor and dpm joined
<artnay> here we go...
<artnay> 09:41     artnay : hi all. does anyone know what's happening with LP? see https://translations.launchpad.net/shutter/trunk/+lang/lv https://translations.launchpad.net/shutter/trunk/+lang/es and https://translations.launchpad.net/shutter/trunk/+lang/fi
<artnay> 09:42     artnay : I've translated most of the shutter-upload-plugins (see Last Edited field) but LP doesn't seem to "react" to my changes
<artnay> 09:42     artnay : and this isn't the first project to have this problem. makes me think it's a problem related to my account.
<artnay> 09:43     artnay : have you noticed anything similar?
<artnay> 09:47     artnay : Translated so far: 0% <- yet only 1/17 is untranslated
<artnay> 10:00     sagaci : yeah, it's weird, I've just looked over en_AU, which has 897 strings that I translated last night but it's showing that none have been done
<artnay> 10:01     artnay : sagaci: which project?
<artnay> 10:01     sagaci :  sane-backends, a temple in ubuntu
<artnay> 10:03     sagaci : https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+lang/en_AU/+index?batch=300&memo=1200&start=1200
<artnay> 10:06     sagaci : but then when you go to check the untranslated strings, there's none reported
<artnay> dpm: does that look familiar to you?
<artnay> sagaci: have you noticed the same problem with any other projects and your account?
<sagaci> no but then again that's the only translation i've done in the past 24hr
<sagaci> brb
<dpm> hi artnay
<dpm> reading backlog...
<kelemengabor> well, I see this with the Precise templates: a lot of them shows 0 translated on the https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+lang/hu page (not visible to everyone), but when I click them, they are translated
<dpm> kelemengabor, it is probably related, although only UTC members can see the precise templates until they're opened for translation
<sagaci> if anyone on precise is up-to-date try going to the language settings and try dragging languages, it's not working for me, touchpad or mouse
<sagaci> language support*
<dpm> artnay, sagaci, the LP team is currently trying to copy the oneiric translations to precise, and it seems they encountered some problems. It's probably related to that. Let me check with them...
<artnay> sagaci: I think the UI for language selector is about to change in precise
<sagaci> it's not too big of a deal, since the translations look like they've gone through, it's just the template list needs to reflect that change, i'll try doing another package
<sagaci> artnay, it's just that I'd like to change my locale temporarily
<artnay> sagaci: I understand. one of the things KDE got right (per-application language settings)
<sagaci> seems to be ongoing, happening when I translate strings, comes of the total but not off the template list
<dpm> artnay, why would per-application language settings be a better solution?
<dpm> artnay, yes, you're right language-selector is going to change in precise, we'll use the upstream one with modifications to install language packs
<artnay> dpm: it's a nice option to have when you translate. if you see some sort of fishy translation, just change to English and check what's the original string. no restart of DE needed, simple and effective.
<dpm> artnay, you can always launch an application from the command line in English: LC_ALL=C gedit
<artnay> dpm: true
<dpm> I think the majority of users only use one language across all applications
<artnay> dpm: but then you have to navigate back to where you saw the possible translation mistake
<sagaci> some package just got added to the templates
<artnay> oh, and thank you for offering a calendar which I can subscribe to!
<artnay> now if only https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule had an .ics and UWN RSS feed...
<artnay> what about precise language pack testing/update calendar? could precise info (and other versions) be added to the same calendar feed? if not, I'd appreciate to have an event such as "Precise .ics released" in Oneiric language calendar
<artnay> is it TLE to whom I should speak to?
<dpm> artnay, skaet, the Ubuntu release manager, maintains the schedule. Last time I spoke to her, she said she'd be happy to add a calendar feed to the release schedule if someone wanted to contribute to it. So if you know how to create a feed, feel free to do so if you're interested. That's the _main release_ schedule feed. TLE created a feed for the _language pack_ schedule feed. other members of the release team said they'd be happy to add the langu
<dpm> age pack feed to the main feed (once there is one :)
<dpm> but if you want to contribute, TLE should be a good person to talk to, yeah, as he's got good experience with creating the calendar feeds
<dpm> although he'll not be very much online until next week
<artnay> dpm: ok. it shouldn't be a huge effort, just need to know who (gmail addresses) should be able to contribute to the actual calendar feed.
<artnay> I think TLE's language pack calendar could be re-used for that
<dpm> yeah, I think it's a good idea too
<dpm> I think I've got write access to it, let me check...
<artnay> dpm: it's just the scope of what should be in a such calendar. probably best would be to have a calendar containing the events here - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule - and then have an option for the subscriber to include per-team calendars (such as translators' calendar).
<artnay> but I don't think that's possible
<dpm> ok, I was going to ask you how to do that :)
<dpm> artnay, would you be happy to add the milestones from the release schedule to the language pack calendar? If so, I can give you write access.
<artnay> dpm: anyways, I sent mail to TLE (pasted most of the lines above) and asked if he's willing to think what to do
<artnay> dpm: sure
<artnay> that would be better than nothing
<artnay> I think there should be an UI for selecting the wanted teams and their schedules, combining those and then offering a public URL for those interested
<artnay> what about other teams? does canonical offer private calendar feeds for their employyes?
<dpm> it depends on the team
<dpm> we use google calendar too
<dpm> and speaking from the community team, we've got a community calendar in which we put events, our holidays, etc
<dpm> I don't think it's public, though
<dpm> but our public events go to the Fridge calendar, anyway
<dpm> I think public per-Ubuntu-team calendar feeds would be nice, I just don't know how to implement them other than having separate feeds
<dpm> but I think adding the language packs in the main release calendar makes sense, as they are essentially packages that need to be uploaded in the stable release
<artnay> dpm: Ubuntu Release Calendar at http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars/ubuntu-release-calendar/ includes some events but they seem to be selected randomly, i.e. no 10.04.X nor 12.04.X updates listed
<artnay> dpm: I think this should be reported as a bug but against which project?
<dpm> I'm not sure there is a project for that, and I don't know who maintains that calendar. I think sending an e-mail to the ubuntu-news mailing list should reach to the right person
<dpm> artnay, ^
<dpm> kelemengabor, a quick FYI wrt Precise translations: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/749097/
<dpm> and the last update:
<dpm> <jtv> dpm, plan: test the updated scripts today, and if successful, announce partial translations downtime for Monday so we can do a new production run.  After that, opening P translations is your call (depending on the state of the import queue, as usual).
<kelemengabor> great, thanks!
<artnay> dpm: (and for TLE who probably reads the log): http://blog.ouseful.info/2008/12/04/displaying-events-from-multiple-google-calendars-in-a-single-embedded-calendar-view/
<artnay> I think that would require one account to host all team calendars. then have permissions given to different calendars and finally combine them into one.
<dpm> nice
<nailora> can someone help me with https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/simple-scan/+bug/543282
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 543282 in simple-scan (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "Documentation cannot be translated (affects: 2) (heat: 14)" [High,Triaged]
<nailora> what can be done so that translation of the documentation can be created?
<andrejz> hello nailora. I think it's best to contact simple-scan team and ask them about it
<nailora> robert ancell is the main (and only) developer for simple scan, and according to that bug he does not really know how to set up things
<nailora> can you give me a hint that i can forward?
<andrejz> from the comments (which are now a bit old) it seems they need to at least generate a .pot file
<andrejz> hm, i am not the technical guy here ;)
<andrejz> kelemengabor, are you there?
<andrejz> your skills would be appriciated
<kelemengabor> re
<andrejz> how to enable translations for simple scan docs?
<kelemengabor> umm, good question
<andrejz> kelemengabor i was also wondering if you are aware of some nice technical resources about .po file translation mechanism somewhare
<andrejz> i would to understand the background a little bit better
<kelemengabor> mechanism? how about the gettext manual?
<kelemengabor> http://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/manual/gettext.html
<kelemengabor> pretty comprehensive, if you ask me :)
<andrejz> ok, i thinik this will be quite sufficient
<kelemengabor> yw
<kelemengabor> also, on the simple scan thing, I think someone should commit the documentation pot template as help/simple-scan-help.pot, and then LP should be able to pick it up
<kelemengabor> given that it is set to Import template files on the /trunk/+translations-settings page
<nailora> ok i will forward that info to the bug
<nailora> thanks
<kelemengabor> also this may be helpful too: https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/ImportingFromBazaarBranches
<kelemengabor> nailora: thanks for bringing this up/pushing forward, this is definiately something I'd like to see sorted out before Precise :)
#ubuntu-translators 2011-11-26
<head_victim> Is there a way in launchpad to organise the translations so that you see the ones that need doing on the front screen instead of half way through the hundreds of packages?
#ubuntu-translators 2011-11-27
<sagaci> any ETA for when the translation statistics will start updating again
#ubuntu-translators 2012-11-20
<dpm> hi kelemengabor, do you happen to remember which tool we used at some point to determine the best time for translations meetings?
<kelemengabor> dpm: sure, http://whenisgood.net/
 * kelemengabor is still a user of it :)
<dpm> aah, that was it, thanks kelemengabor!
<dpm> :)
#ubuntu-translators 2012-11-23
<Geochr> Hi all, i have report a bug, but i don't see any action on it. The bug is the following :
<Geochr> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/975970
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 975970 in Launchpad itself "Messages reviewed in translator mode if you don't check manually "Someone should review this translation"" [Low,Triaged]
<Geochr> Is the bug reported on correct project ?
<Geochr> btw this bug affect all the translators on lauchpad, so you can give heat on this bug.
#ubuntu-translators 2012-11-24
<smartboyhw> Hi anyone who know Russian here?
 * smartboyhw needs some help to translate in #ubuntustudio
<smartboyhw> Ignore it please
#ubuntu-translators 2014-11-19
<electronplusplus> Hello guys, I posted a question on stackoverflow about problems that I'm facing with i18n, I t would be great if you could give help me with this: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/27007219/where-to-find-connected-open-i18n-databases
<Geochr> Hi all, i have a small question. I traslated a package about one year before, but the translations never updated in ubuntu...I sent an email to the "Project Maintainer" but he told me that he will find a new maintainer.Since our last email never hapends (4 months ago). Is trere a way to push the translations ?
<Geochr> The project is: https://launchpad.net/screenruler and the packages in ubuntu is: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/screenruler
<Geochr> I make the same quetion in #ubuntu-quality and the anwer was the following: <balloons> Geochr, #ubuntu-translators is really the best place to ask, but checkout https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/LpProjectConfiguration to make sure the project is setup for translation. AFAIK, it should be automatic. New builds should be generated as soon as you add new translations
<Geochr> and :  <balloons> if the project is setup right in launchpad it's automatic. the translations folks will certainly have the definitive answer and will know how to setup the project if it's not setup properly
<Geochr> Is there any help?
#ubuntu-translators 2014-11-21
<askhl> Hello.  I am trying to import a project from svn into github using the online import function.  It apparently works but I get only the master branch while the project has many branches all of which should be migrated.  This problem isn't mentioned on the page on imports.  Any help please?
<askhl> wait, sorry.  This was an old message from IRC history which I sent by accident.
<askhl> Please ignore :)
#ubuntu-translators 2017-11-26
<scootergrisen> Is Ubuntu suppose to automatically get translation from gnome for programs like simple-scan?
<scootergrisen> I was wondering why Ubuntu had an old incomplete danish translation for simple-scan when the translation was much newer and fully translated on l10n.gnome.org
<scootergrisen> Are people suppose to download the translation from gnome and upload it manually to ubuntu?
