#ubuntu-classroom 2006-12-04
* mode/#ubuntu-classroom [+o tonyyarusso]  by ChanServ
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-classroom:tonyyarusso] : Ubuntu Open Week has now finished - thanks , everyone! | Transcripts and logs are at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ClassroomTranscripts and http://www.tonyyarusso.is-a-geek.com/irclogs/openweek/ - actually down atm for hardware troubleshooting (bloody clock..)
* mode/#ubuntu-classroom [-o tonyyarusso]  by tonyyarusso
<arstanj> a
<_0mk4r_> how to enable usb2.0 in linux? what is procedure to add a module?
<croppa> if i have installed and used automatix2, can i use sudo apt-get cdrom with the edgy alt cd, then sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
<croppa> to upgrade dapper to edgy
<nalioth> i just saw croppas question
<nalioth> the answer (if he returns): if you use automatix, you're probably not gonna be able to upgrade very easily, if at all
<nw> ll
#ubuntu-classroom 2006-12-05
<tonyyarusso> mako: ping
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> zelazny.freenode.net
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> zelazny.freenode.net
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-classroom.log
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-classroom.log
<zippersmith> z
<kybuz> hiya all
<kybuz> can anyone perhaps help me out with a script which  i want to edit
#ubuntu-classroom 2006-12-06
<ckarini> okay
<jrib> hello
<ckarini> hey
<jrib> ok were you able to download the tar.gz to your desktop?
<ckarini> yes
<jrib> ok, open up a terminal
<ckarini> k
<ckarini> i did
<jrib> cd ~/Desktop
<jrib> you downloaded the binary right?
<ckarini> wait, should i change the directiory to the desktyop or the file?
<jrib> I am assuming the tar.gz is on your desktop, so 'cd ~/Desktop' is to get you to the Desktop in the terminal
<ckarini> im there
<jrib> tar xvzf Step<TAB>      where <TAB> is you pressing the tab button to complete the full name of the tar.gz
<ckarini> waitwaitwait, you lost me on that one
<nalioth> ckarini: tab completion is a wonderful thing
<ckarini> i dont get what i do though
<jrib> enter that in your terminal:
<jrib> tar xvzf Step<TAB>
<nalioth> ckarini: instead of <tab> hit the tab key
<ckarini> i hit the tab key, but nothing happened
<jrib> ok, what does this say:        ls *ania*
<ckarini> ls *ania*
<ckarini> why?
<nalioth> ckarini: in yoru terminal
<jrib> I'll try to put commands in '' from now on
<ckarini> okay
<ckarini> i did that
<jrib> ckarini: copy and paste the output here
<nalioth> did anything return, ckarini ?
<ckarini> aclocal.m4  configure     Docs         NEWS               Utils
<ckarini> autoconf    configure.ac  Makefile.am  README-FIRST.html
<ckarini> config.log  Copying.txt   Makefile.in  src
<jrib> ckarini: ok what does this command say:   'pwd'     enter it without the quotes
<ckarini> k
<ckarini> /home/dom
<ckarini> thats what it did
<jrib> ok, now do    'cd ~/Desktop'    the capitalization of the D is important
<ckarini> okay, there
<jrib> ok, what does 'pwd' say now?
<ckarini> /home/dom/desktop
<nalioth> ckarini: are you typing that or copying it?
<ckarini> typing
<ckarini> /home/dom/Desktop
<ckarini> thats copied
<jrib> great
<nalioth> ckarini: in linux, letter case means different things
<ckarini> oh
<nalioth> /home/dom/desktop is NOT /home/dom/Desktop
<ckarini> okay
<jrib> now try:  'tar xvzf Step<TAB>'    remember I just mean that you should press your TAB button instead of typing <TAB>
<ckarini> k
<ckarini> okay
<jrib> the name should magically complete
<ckarini> yeah
<ckarini> it did
<ckarini> then enter?
<jrib> yep
<ckarini> dom@dom-desktop:~/Desktop$ tar xvzf StepMania-3.9-src
<ckarini> tar: StepMania-3.9-src: Cannot read: Is a directory
<ckarini> tar: At beginning of tape, quitting now
<ckarini> tar: Error is not recoverable: exiting now
<ckarini> gzip: stdin: unexpected end of file
<ckarini> tar: Child returned status 2
<ckarini> tar: Error exit delayed from previous errors
<ckarini> dom@dom-desktop:~/Desktop$ dom@dom-desktop:~/Desktop$ tar xvzf StepMania-3.9-srcbash: dom@dom-desktop:~/Desktop$: No such file or directory
<ckarini> dom@dom-desktop:~/Desktop$
<nalioth> it automagically untarred, it seems
<jrib> that's ok, that is the wrong file.  We need the binary
<ckarini> uh, i dont understand the moonspeak
<jrib> this command will download it from the internet:  'wget http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/stepmania/StepMania-3.9a-linux.tar.gz'
<jrib> the step mania site offers binary and source.  Source is the source code, which gets compiled into a binary that your computer can actually run
<ckarini> it 404'd me.
<jrib> ok, visit http://www.stepmania.com/wiki/Downloads and download the linux binary to your desktop
<nalioth> jrib: that is a dynamic link you gave (mean ol' sourceforge)
<ckarini> okay it downloaded
<jrib> ok is it called StepMania-3.9a-linux.tar.gz?
<ckarini> yep
<jrib> tar xvzf StepMania-3.9a-linux.tar.gz      feel free to use the TAB button to complete most of it like before
<ckarini> dom@dom-desktop:~/Desktop$ tar xvzf StepMania-3.9
<ckarini> tar: StepMania-3.9: Cannot open: No such file or directory
<ckarini> tar: Error is not recoverable: exiting now
<ckarini> tar: Child returned status 2
<ckarini> tar: Error exit delayed from previous errors
<jrib> 'tar xvzf StepMania-3.9a-linux.tar.gz'   you need to complete the end
<ckarini> okay,
<nalioth> ckarini: just type one letter more in the name and then hit <tab>
<ckarini> okay, it did all this stuff like
<ckarini> 1337 and stuff
<ckarini> i think in installed.....
<jrib> 'cd StepMania-3.9'
<ckarini> i dont know though
<ckarini> okay
<ckarini> i did that
<jrib> now:  './stepmania'
<jrib> and it will take over your screen...
<ckarini> StepMania 3.9
<ckarini> Log starting 2006-12-05 20:39:22
<ckarini> Loading window: gtk
<ckarini> OS: Linux ver 020615
<ckarini> Crash backtrace component: x86 custom backtrace
<ckarini> Crash lookup component: dladdr
<ckarini> Crash demangle component: cxa_demangle
<ckarini> Runtime library: glibc 2.3.6
<ckarini> Threads library: NPTL 2.3.6
<ckarini> TLS is available
<ckarini> ALSA: Advanced Linux Sound Architecture Driver Version 1.0.10rc3 (Mon Nov 07 13:30:21 2005 UTC).
<ckarini> ALSA Driver: 0: ESS Allegro PCI [PCI] , device 0: Allegro [Allegro] , 2/2 subdevices avail
<ckarini> Couldn't load driver ALSA: Not enough substreams for hardware mixing, using software mixing
<jrib> !pastebin | ckarini
<ubotu> ckarini: pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (be sure to give the URL of your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<ckarini> ALSA: Software mixing at 44100hz
<ckarini> Sound driver: ALSA-sw
<ckarini> Video renderers: 'opengl'
<ckarini> SDL version: 1.2.9
<ckarini> Got 24 bpp (8880), 16 depth, 0 stencil
<ckarini> Paletted textures disabled: GL_EXT_paletted_texture missing.
<jrib> ckarini: close any program you have using sound
<ckarini> OGL Vendor: Mesa project: www.mesa3d.org
<ckarini> OGL Renderer: Mesa GLX Indirect
<ckarini> OGL Version: 1.2 (1.5 Mesa 6.4.1)
<ckarini> OGL Extensions: GL_ARB_depth_texture GL_ARB_imaging GL_ARB_multitexture GL_ARB_point_parameters GL_ARB_point_sprite GL_ARB_shadow GL_ARB_shadow_ambient GL_ARB_texture_border_clamp GL_ARB_texture_cube_map GL_ARB_texture_env_add GL_ARB_texture_env_combine GL_ARB_texture_env_crossbar GL_ARB_texture_env_dot3 GL_ARB_texture_mirrored_repeat GL_ARB_texture_rectangle GL_ARB_transpose_matrix GL_ARB_window_pos GL_EXT_abgr GL_EXT_bgra GL_EXT_
<ckarini> blend_color GL_EXT_blend_func_separate GL_EXT_blend_logic_op GL_EXT_blend_minmax GL_EXT_blend_subtract GL_EXT_clip_volume_hint GL_EXT_copy_texture GL_EXT_draw_range_elements GL_EXT_fog_coord GL_EXT_multi_draw_arrays GL_EXT_packed_pixels GL_EXT_point_parameters GL_EXT_polygon_offset GL_EXT_rescale_normal GL_EXT_secondary_color GL_EXT_separate_specular_color GL_EXT_shadow_funcs GL_EXT_stencil_two_side GL_EXT_stencil_wrap GL_EXT_subte
<ckarini> xture GL_EXT_texture GL_EXT_texture3D GL_EXT_texture_edge_clamp GL_EXT_texture_env_add GL_EXT_texture_env_combine GL_EXT_texture_env_dot3 GL_EXT_texture_lod_bias GL_EXT_texture_object GL_EXT_texture_rectangle GL_EXT_vertex_array GL_APPLE_packed_pixels GL_ATI_texture_env_combine3 GL_ATI_texture_mirror_once GL_ATIX_texture_env_combine3 GL_HP_occlusion_test GL_IBM_texture_mirrored_repeat GL_INGR_blend_func_separate GL_MESA_pack_invert
<ckarini>  GL_MESA_ycbcr_texture GL_NV_blend_square GL_NV_point_sprite GL_NV_texgen_reflection GL_NV_texture_rectangle GL_SGIS_generate_mipmap GL_SGIS_texture_border_clamp GL_SGIS_texture_edge_clamp GL_SGIS_texture_lod GL_SGIX_depth_texture GL_SGIX_shadow GL_SGIX_shadow_ambient GL_SUN_multi_draw_arrays
<ckarini> OGL Max texture size: 2048
<ckarini> GLU Version: 1.3
<ckarini> Display: :0.0 (screen 0)
<ckarini> Direct rendering: no
<ckarini> X server vendor: The X.Org Foundation [7.0.0.0] 
<nalioth> whoa
<ckarini> Server GLX vendor: SGI [1.2] 
<ckarini> Client GLX vendor: SGI [1.4] 
<ckarini> Mixing 361.804511 ahead in 532 Mix() calls
<ckarini> Language: english
<ckarini> Current renderer: OpenGL
<ckarini> Theme: default
<ckarini> Error: There was an error while initializing your video card.
<ckarini>    PLEASE DO NOT FILE THIS ERROR AS A BUG!
<ckarini> Video Driver: OpenGL
<ckarini> Initializing OpenGL...
<ckarini> Your system is reporting that direct rendering is not available.  Please obtain an updated driver from your video card manufacturer.
<ckarini> okay
<nalioth> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (be sure to give the URL of your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<ckarini> i did
<jrib> ckarini: does it work if you close all programs playing sound before entering that command?
<ckarini> nope
<ckarini> it did the same thing
<jrib> k, lets read the README
<ckarini> ok
<jrib> oh I just read the bottom of your error
<ckarini> yeah...
<jrib> ckarini: what kind of video card do you have?
<ckarini> i dont know.
<jrib> ckarini: 'lspci'  put the output on http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org please
<ckarini> wait, i put in lspci,
<ckarini> what did i just do?
<nalioth> did you get any return, ckarini ?
<ckarini> yeah
<nalioth> jrib: will probably have a question or want you to use a pastebin to display the results
<jrib> great, now visit http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org .  Then copy and paste the output into the box on the web form and submit.  Give us the url when you are done
<ckarini> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/35505/
<ckarini> what did that do?
<jrib> I'm not familiar with intel video cards, let me search and see if I can find out
<ckarini> k
<jrib> ckarini: you have an  intel 82810 by the way
<ckarini> okay
<ckarini> so what can i do to get step mania working
<jrib> well what we need to do is  get direct rendering on your intel 82810
<ckarini> how?
<jrib> once you do that, step mania should be working
<jrib> I don't know, like I said, i am searching
<ckarini> okay
<jrib> 'glxinfo | grep rendering'
<ckarini> do i put the grep rendering part in?
<jrib> yes, everything between the ''
<ckarini> okay
<ckarini> it was pretty straight forward with that one.
<ckarini> direct rendering: No
<jrib> the | lets you send output from the first command as input to the second command.  The 'grep' command searches for words
<ckarini> so now what do i do?
<jrib> ckarini: try asking in #ubuntu how to enable direct rendering on your intel 82810 .  If I come across it before you find out, I'll let you know.  But stepmania should work after you get direict rendering enabled
<ckarini> okay
<ckarini> thanks alot
<jrib> ckarini: 'apt-cache policy nvidia-glx libgl1-mesa-dri libgl1-mesa-dri'
<ckarini> that may have worked,
<ckarini> it did somthing
<ckarini> so assume, it did work, what do i do now?
<ckarini> wait, what even was that?
<jrib> that command just gathers information
<ckarini> oh.
<jrib> please pastebin the output
<ckarini> okay
<ckarini> dom@dom-desktop:~/Desktop/StepMania-3.9$ apt-cache policy nvidia-glx libgl1-mesa-dri libgl1-mesa-dri
<ckarini> nvidia-glx:
<ckarini>   Installed: (none)
<ckarini>   Candidate: 1.0.8776+2.6.15.12-1
<ckarini>   Version table:
<ckarini>      1.0.8776+2.6.15.12-1 0
<ckarini>         500 http://archive.ubuntu.com dapper-security/restricted Packages
<ckarini>      1.0.8762+2.6.15.11-1 0
<ckarini>         500 http://archive.ubuntu.com dapper/restricted Packages
<ckarini> libgl1-mesa-dri:
<ckarini>   Installed: 6.4.1-0ubuntu8
<ckarini>   Candidate: 6.4.1-0ubuntu8
<ckarini>   Version table:
<ckarini>  *** 6.4.1-0ubuntu8 0
<ckarini>         500 http://archive.ubuntu.com dapper/main Packages
* jrib reminds ckarini of pastebin: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org 
<ckarini>         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
<ckarini> libgl1-mesa-dri:
<ckarini>   Installed: 6.4.1-0ubuntu8
<ckarini>   Candidate: 6.4.1-0ubuntu8
<ckarini>   Version table:
<ckarini>  *** 6.4.1-0ubuntu8 0
<ckarini>         500 http://archive.ubuntu.com dapper/main Packages
<ckarini>         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
<ckarini> oops.
<ckarini> well, should i do it there again anyways?
<jrib> nah
<jrib> ok, 'gedit /etc/X11/xorg.conf'  to pastebin please
<ckarini> ok
<ckarini> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/35508/
<jrib> hmmmm
<nalioth> ckarini: this channel is NOT a pastebin
<nalioth> ckarini: please visit paste.ubuntulinux.nl and paste your stuff THERE
<nalioth> it makes a big difference in how you are helped, as pastebins can be accessed easily tomorrow or next week
<nalioth> these channel logs are hard to parse after a day or so
<ckarini> okay
<ckarini> jrib: any ideas yet?
<jrib> ckarini: well I don't reall know what to suggest.  The only reference I found that I thought might be useful was http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=232651 .  But your configuration seems fine.  I suggest you make a post on the forums or send an email to the ubuntu-users mailing list.  Someone with an intel themselves may be able to help better
<ckarini> okay
<jrib> ckarini: be sure to include your xorg.conf and the result of the 'glxinfo | grep direct' command.  As well as your video card
<ckarini> okay
<ckarini> well, in short, whats the main problem
<jrib> the lack of direct rendering
<ckarini> and when direct rendering is enabled, i can install it?
<jrib> stepmania is "installed" I guess.  Running that "stepmania" file is trying to run stepmania
<ckarini> oh,
<jrib> you should see a "stepmania" file inside the folder on your desktop.  Once you get it working, you can just double click that.  For now though, I recommend you try './stepmania' after 'cd ~/Desktop/StepMania-3.9'.  That way you get useful error output
<ckarini> so, if direct rendering is on, the program will run?
<jrib> well yes, I assume so
<ckarini> because i have the program icon and everything, but when i click on it, it loads, then just goes right back to the desktop
<jrib> yeah, it's the lack of direct rendering that causes that
<ckarini> oh, so i have to try to find out how to enable direct rendering?
<jrib> exactly
<ckarini> okay.
<ckarini> look at this http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?t=277065
<jrib> ckarini: ubuntuforums.org and https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users are two possibilities for reaching more people than on irc
<ckarini> does that help?
<jrib> ckarini: no, that is for nvidia
<ckarini> oh.
<jrib> nvidia is a different kind of video card
<ckarini> what about
<ckarini> http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Direct_rendering_on_Intel_Extreme_Graphics_(855GM)_chipsets
<ckarini> does that one help at all?
<jrib> it mentions something but I would not rely on it without corroboration from a different source
<jrib> "The VideoRam option is very critical. The chip..."  but the person on ubuntuforums did not have that line
<ckarini> oh, well, should we try it yet, or not,
<jrib> I think it would be better if you found someone that could tell you something that would work for sure
<jrib> If we mess up, you will be without a gui
<ckarini> and thats not good.
<jrib> hmmm
<ckarini> now wait,
<ckarini> look at this http://www.stepmania.com/wiki/Video_Card_Compatibility
<jrib> I just checked the ubuntu person's xorg.conf and he has the videoram line as well
<jrib> yes, I saw that
<jrib> (you don't have the videoram line)
<ckarini> oh.
<ckarini> so whats the videoram line
<jrib> so that's looking more and more like it be the problem
<jrib> ckarini: type  ctrl-f in your browser and enter "videoram"
<jrib> ignore my message in #ubuntu, wrong window
<jrib> do you know how much ram you have?
<ckarini> nope
<jrib> 'free -m'
<ckarini> wait, what browser?
<jrib> firefox for example
<ckarini> oh
<jrib> on the gentoo wiki page or the forum post I linked to earlier
<ckarini> wait, doesnt ctrl-f find stuff?
<jrib> yes
<jrib> you asked what the videoram line was
<ckarini> then i just open firefox and type videoram?
<ckarini> in a search thing
<jrib> do you have the gentoo wiki page opened that you linked me to?
<ckarini> no
<jrib> ok, nevermind, it isn't important
<ckarini> okay.
<jrib> ckarini: what does 'free -m' say?
<ckarini>              total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
<ckarini> Mem:           312        308          3          0          4         80
<ckarini> -/+ buffers/cache:        223         89
<ckarini> Swap:          619         64        554
<ckarini> dom@dom-desktop:~$
<jrib> ok you have 312mb ram
<jrib> we should allocate some of that to the video card
<jrib> ckarini: would you like to try?
<ckarini> yeah
<ckarini> sorry it took so long
<ckarini> wait, is it safe enough?
<ckarini> hey jrib, what do i do
<jrib> well
<jrib> I can explain what to do in case it doesn't work
<ckarini> okay
<jrib> ok here is what we are basically going to do:
<jrib> 1. backup xorg.conf
<jrib> 2. edit xorg.conf and save changes
<jrib> 3. restart X
<jrib> X is the gui stuff
<ckarini> okay
<jrib> now when you restart X, if we mess up, it may fail to start
<ckarini> so i put all that in the terminal?
<jrib> no that's just my explanation, I will give you the commands after I explain what to do in case it doens't work
<ckarini> okay, so if it doesnt work, i can fix it, right?
<jrib> ok, ctrl-alt-f1 brings you to a tty (a terminal) and ctrl-alt-f7 brings you back to the current "gui" display you have.  Try pressing ctrl-alt-f1 now to and then press ctrl-alt-f7 to get back
<jrib> ckarini: yes
<ckarini> uh......
<ckarini> yeah
<jrib> ckarini: ok, you saw some login window, once you login there you would get to a terminal.  Just like where you were entering commands before
<ckarini> okay
<jrib> ok write this down on a piece of papaer, remember capitalization is important:
<ckarini> yeah
<ckarini> alright
<ckarini> ready
<jrib> 'sudo cp /etc/X11/xorg.conf.backup /etc/X11/xorg.conf'  do not execute this now.  This is for restoring the backup in case something goes wrong later
<ckarini> oaky
<jrib> so if something went wrong, you would hit ctrl-alt-f1, login, and enter that command.  Then you would restart X, with:  'sudo invoke-rc.d gdm restart'
<ckarini> okay
<jrib> ok, that should get you back to your current configuration.  Now lets edit your current one
<ckarini> hold on a minute
<JVH> I don't want to interupt, but when time permits, I could use a little help.
<jrib> JVH: what's the question?
<JVH> I have installed Ubuntu server. I need to access routers and access point that use a web based config screens.
<JVH> I can't find a browser anywhere in the system.
<ckarini> okay
<ckarini> so what am i doing
<jrib> JVH: maybe  http://shon.org/blog/?p=22 ?  If you want, you can install X and have a gui with more choices.  Also, links2 is a good command line web browser, better than lynx that you could try
<jrib> ckarini: create the backup:  'sudo cp /etc/X11/xorg.conf /etc/X11/xorg.conf.backup'
<ckarini> in the terminal?
<jrib> ckarini: right
<ckarini> okay
<ckarini> okay, i did that
<jrib> ckarini: 'gksudo gedit /etc/X11/xorg.conf'
<JVH> I am brand new to Linux, I thought lynx was a test only browser?
<jrib> JVH: you can browse the web with it if you want
<ckarini> okay, i did that
<JVH> ok I will give it a try, thought maybe mozilla, netscape, firefox was hidden somewhere in there.
<jrib> JVH: you can isntall them if you want.  But you will need X to run them in
<jrib> JVH: do you want a gui environment on the server?
<ckarini> okay, it gave me some text file
<jrib> ckarini: ok please go to line 92, it should say: Identifier"Intel Corporation 82810E DC-133 CGC [Chipset Graphics Controller] "
<JVH> Only if I need one. I am attempting to build an Asterisk PBX server.
<jrib> JVH: k, my suggestion would be to try that suggestion about lynx on that blog.  If that doesn't work, try installing links2 (sudo apt-get install links2) and using that
<ckarini> wait, i dont get it.
<jrib> ckarini: right now you have http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/35508/ in your editor correct?
<ckarini> yeah
<jrib> ok, scroll down to the part that looks like (it starts on line 91):
<JVH> What would be the command to install a gui? Like the desktop ubuntu has. Is that gnome?
<jrib> 091. Section "Device"
<jrib> 092. 	Identifier	"Intel Corporation 82810E DC-133 CGC [Chipset Graphics Controller] "
<jrib> 093. 	Driver		"i810"
<jrib> 094. 	BusID		"PCI:0:1:0"
<ckarini> okay
<ckarini> wait, i dont think it looks like that
<jrib> JVH: sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop will give you it all.  xubuntu-desktop and kubutnu-desktop are other options using xfce and kde, respectively.  You can also have lighter environments like fluxbox, openbox, etc
<jrib> ckarini: that is what you pasted before
<jrib> except where you see inverted I's, you should see tabs in your editor
<jrib> and no line numbers
<JVH> ok I will give it a try thanks jrib.
<jrib> JVH: np
<ckarini> yeah
<jrib> ckarini: ok, you found it?
<ckarini> but i cant find that one part
<jrib> be more specific
<jrib> press ctrl-f and enter i810, you should be there after a few hits
<ckarini> oh wait, i round it
<jrib> ok
<ckarini> found it
<ckarini> now what
<jrib> now put a new line after   094. BusID"PCI:0:1:0"    that says:
<jrib>        VideoRam        16384
<ckarini> okay did it
<jrib> that will give you 16 mb of video ram, I don't know if that is optimal for you or not, but you can explore later
<jrib> 1024*16=16384 by the way
<ckarini> okay, so what do i do with that
<jrib> ok save it and then please pastebin what it looks like now
<ckarini> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/35516/
<jrib> ckarini: ok, indent the line that you added so it matches with the others, just press TAB at the beginning of the line
<jrib> I don't think it matters but just in case
<ckarini> okay
<ckarini> save it again?
<jrib> yes
<ckarini> k, now what
<jrib> now we part and hopefully you will be back soon
<jrib> save anything you are working on
<ckarini> wait, what?
<ckarini> so, your going, or, what
<jrib> I am about to give you the command to restart X
<ckarini> oh
<jrib> that will close all your programs
<ckarini> oh
<jrib> ok, you know what to do in case it fails?  Worst case scenario, put in a live cd and visit #ubuntu again
* jrib thinks
<ckarini> yeah
<jrib> ctrl-alt-backspace   will restart X
<ckarini> okay
<ckarini> so when do i do that
<jrib> now
<ckarini> then what do i do after that
<jrib> join me here again, or just try stepmania and see if it works
<ckarini> okay,
<jrib> 'glxinfo | grep direct'
<ckarini> okay so it didnt work
<ckarini> still no direct rendering
<jrib> check your /etc/X11/xorg.conf and make sure the changes are there
<ckarini> permission denied
<jrib> 'gedit /etc/X11/xorg.conf' is the command.  gedit is a text editor and /etc/X11/xorg.conf is a text file
<ckarini> yeah, it had the video thing on it
<jrib> idk then
<ckarini> oh
<jrib> try the forums and mailing list
<ckarini> okay
<jrib> or #ubuntu again
<ckarini> thanks for all your help
<jrib> maybe someone new knows
<jrib> ckarini: n, hope you get it
<jrib> n = no problem
<ckarini> thanks
<ckarini> alright
<ckarini> ill see ya later
<jrib> bye
<ckarini> maybe
<ckarini> see ya
<unix_infidel> hey guys, wondering if the systems administration class went down on the 2nd or 3rd.
<unix_infidel> I didnt see a lectururer posted at that time on the website, nor has a transcript been posted, so i was just curious.
<tonyyarusso> unix_infidel: I'm not aware of one, but I'm not sure
<unix_infidel> tonyyarusso: i was referring to the post on the wiki.
<unix_infidel> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom
<tonyyarusso> unix_infidel: I know what you meant - I didn't hear one happen.
<unix_infidel> Personally, I think skipping 101 and going straight to Advanced Administration would be more beneficial :)
<unix_infidel> tonyyarusso: thanks, I'll be looking for updates.
<unix_infidel> Btw, nice lecture on gpg 101 a while back.
<tonyyarusso> unix_infidel: Thanks.  (I finally _did_ get those transcripts up...)
<unix_infidel> :p
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-classroom.log
#ubuntu-classroom 2006-12-07
<nick125_> tony?
<tonyyarusso> nick125_: Trying it for the first time?
<nick125_> well i followed the direction in the gstreamer help but i can't get it to work
<nick125_> or are you referring to my question about irssi
<tonyyarusso> I was referring to irssi.
<tonyyarusso> What was your other one?
<nick125_> about soundjuicer
<nick125_> and mp3 format
<nick125_> in irssi how do you talk directly to a person so their name turns yellow
<tonyyarusso> nick125_: Saying their name ;)
<tonyyarusso> for mp3,
<tonyyarusso> !restricted
<ubotu> For multimedia issues, this page has useful information: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats - See also http://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/common-tasks-chap.html - But please use free formats if you can: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FreeFormats
<tonyyarusso> I think has some info about soundjuicer.  Was that what you read nick125_ ?
<nick125_> well in the help for sound juicer it gives the gstreamer pipeline to use for mp3 and i tried that and it still doesnt work
<nick125_> and i have gstreamer0.8-lame installed
<nick125_> and liblame0
<nick125_> and still no go
<nick125_> tonyyarusso let me test out the irrsi
<nick125_> did that work
<tonyyarusso> nick125_: yep
<nick125_> can you copy paste in irrsi
<tonyyarusso> Did you check both the sound juicer help and that wiki page?
<nick125_> yeah
<tonyyarusso> nick125_: In gnome-terminal, Ctrl-Shift-C to copy, Ctrl-Shift-V to paste; on a tty, use the gpm package to get a nice mouse, and hilight to copy, middle-click to paste.
<nick125_> i used to get files that would say mp3 but they wouldn't play now it seems my sound juicer crashes each time i try
<nick125_> do you think having gstreamer0.1 and gstreamer0.8 both installed would cause this
<tonyyarusso> I'm not sure.  I know they're pretty different, so maybe.
<nick125_> is 0.1 used for anything at all?
<nick125_> i just installed in my 90 attempts to get this problem solved
<nick125_> i have tried everything
<nick125_> i am not a linux superuser either though i am a mac user that is switching my windows box to ubuntu
<tonyyarusso> 0.1 or 1.0?
<tonyyarusso> Or maybe 0.10?
<nick125_> its 0.10
<tonyyarusso> right
<tonyyarusso> I think Edgy might still use one or two 0.8 packages, but I don't remember
<nick125_> i am totally confused on what to do about this but i have put in like 3 or 4 hours and i am getting very flustered..
<nick125_> so is 0.10 newer than 0.8
<nick125_> i actually have another question that you are probably gonna laugh at but how do you add another folder to your $PATH
<nick125_> i want ~/bin on my PATH
<tonyyarusso> Yes, 0.10 is newer
<tonyyarusso> That's not a laugh - lessee
<tonyyarusso> Involves EXPORT I'm sure
<tonyyarusso> EXPORT PATH ~/bin maybe?
<nick125_> what does the EXPORT cmd do?
<tonyyarusso> Writes values for system variables
<nick125_> it says the cmd EXPORT is not found
<tonyyarusso> !find export
<ubotu> Found: libexporter-lite-perl, libexporter-tidy-perl, libperl6-export-perl, libuniversal-exports-perl
<tonyyarusso> bah, useless
<tonyyarusso> if you do exp<tab> does it show?
<nick125_> ok it didnt need caps
<nick125_> is says "bash: export: `/home/erin/bin': not a valid identifier"
<nick125_> whatever than means
<nick125_> that*
<tonyyarusso> Huh.  Oh well
<nick125_> i thought there was a file i could just vi and add my new path entry to
<tonyyarusso> Probably
<tonyyarusso> Looks like ~/bin should be included by default - check the script in ~/.bash_profile
<nick125_> # ~/.bash_profile: executed by bash(1) for login shells.
<nick125_> # see /usr/share/doc/bash/examples/startup-files for examples.
<nick125_> # the files are located in the bash-doc package.
<nick125_> # the default umask is set in /etc/login.defs
<nick125_> #umask 022
<nick125_> # include .bashrc if it exists
<nick125_> if [ -f ~/.bashrc ] ; then . ~/.bashrc
<nick125_> fi
<nick125_> # set PATH so it includes user's private bin if it exists
<nick125_> if [ -d ~/bin ]  ; then PATH=~/bin:"${PATH}"
<nick125_> fi
<nick125_> # ~/.bash_profile: executed by bash(1) for login shells.
<nick125_> # see /usr/share/doc/bash/examples/startup-files for examples.
<nick125_> # the files are located in the bash-doc package.
<nick125_> # the default umask is set in /etc/login.defs
<nick125_> #umask 022
<nick125_> # include .bashrc if it exists
<nick125_> if [ -f ~/.bashrc ] ; then . ~/.bashrc
<nick125_> fi
<nick125_> # set PATH so it includes user's private bin if it exists
<nick125_> if [ -d ~/bin ]  ; then PATH=~/bin:"${PATH}"
<nick125_> fi
<nick125_> what do i need to edit on this
<nick125_> tonyyarusso do you know what i need ot edit on this file
<tonyyarusso> yikes
<nick125_> tonyyarusso whats that all about
<tonyyarusso> It says if ~/bin exists, add it to the path.
<tonyyarusso> nick125_: so you should be set
<nick125_> thats strange cause its not there
<tonyyarusso> Well, beats me then.  sorry
<nick125_> oh well i am going to beb now its getting late tahnks for your help
<nick125_> how do you exit irssi
<nick125_> ctl C doesnt work
<tonyyarusso>  /exit
<jrib> rukuartic: ok this way there is less traffic
<rukuartic> jrib: Gotcha.
<jrib> sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install build-essntial,  if that fails, apt-cache policy build-essential
<jrib> umm except spell build-essential right :)
* nalioth whacks jrib on his non spelling fingers
<jrib> taht won't hilp mee weth me speling
<rukuartic> build-essential:
<rukuartic>   Installed: (none)
<rukuartic>   Candidate: 11.1
<rukuartic>   Version table:
<rukuartic>      11.1 0
<rukuartic>         500 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com dapper/main Packages
<nalioth> rukuartic: please use a pastebin
<rukuartic> sorry nalioth, figured it wouldn't matter her.
<nalioth> i thought there was more coming  :|
<jrib> rukuartic: sudo apt-get install libc6-dev
<rukuartic> jrib: same problem.s
<jrib> which packages does it blame
<rukuartic> jrib: and shouldn't that get installed by apt to begin with?
<rukuartic> libc6
<jrib> apt-cache policy libc6
<nalioth> i see a fubarred sources.list here
<nalioth> and i just came in
<jrib> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/35838/ is his current sources.list
<rukuartic> nalioth: Not quite... used sourceomatic...
<nalioth> rukuartic: i find sourceomatic to be devestating in some cases
<rukuartic> nalioth: :(
<nalioth> have you ever used ANY non official packages?
<nalioth> i find it amazingly strange that you cannot install build-essential
<rukuartic> nalioth: I had the same problem with xserver-xorg, and I don't think so nal... fresh insteall as of... ...a few hours ago.
<rukuartic> with xorg, I think I did dpkg --force remove xserver-xorg and it worked fine on the reinstall
<nalioth> what does it tell you when you try to install build-essential ?
<jrib> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/35837/
<rukuartic> nalioth: see jrib's paste
<jrib> rukuartic: apt-cache policy libc6
<nalioth> i see a major fubar. which is why i asked about 'non official packages"
<jrib> I suspect the same thing
<nalioth> i MAY have a solution
<rukuartic> nalioth: I know... And as far as I know I haven't installed anything outside of main/universe
<nalioth> bottom line: you are screwed, rukuartic
<rukuartic> Or is universe non official.
<rukuartic> Not a big crisis... its just a reinstlal.
<nalioth> BUT, we may be able to fix it
<rukuartic> :D
<nalioth> REINSTALL? HERESY!
<nalioth> this is linux
<rukuartic> Yeah thats what I said... and I'm over ssh so :(
<nalioth> no reinstalls are ever necessary
<jrib> heh
<nalioth> rukuartic: try this: sudo apt-get -b source libc6-dev
* rukuartic updates apt sources...
<rukuartic> horay.
<rukuartic> This requires I have build-essential right?
<nalioth> what did it tell you?
<rukuartic> still downloading.
<nalioth> don't despair if it doesn't work
<nalioth> i have more ideas
<nalioth> jrib: where did you get off to?
<rukuartic> Like?
* jrib is here
<nalioth> rukuartic: let's try this first
<rukuartic> Kay... I'm looking for a more permanent solution instead of a patch job... thats why I dropped windows anyways.
<nalioth> this is not a patch job
<jrib> while taht is downloading, what is your version of libc6 rukuartic ?
<nalioth> i'm not a wire and tape man
<rukuartic> jrib: no clue...
<jrib> rukuartic: apt-cache policy libc6   should tell you
<rukuartic> 2.4-1
<jrib> ubotu: info libc6 dapper
<ubotu> libc6: GNU C Library: Shared libraries and Timezone data. In component main, is required. Version 2.3.6-0ubuntu20 (dapper), package size 4480 kB, installed size 9932 kB
<jrib> eh?
<rukuartic> Oh snap. I think sourcomatic screwed me.
<jrib> 2.4-1 is what I have on edgy
<rukuartic> Edgy on 64bit.
<jrib> your sources are for dapper
<nalioth> yep
<nalioth> that is what is up
* rukuartic twitches.
<nalioth> the weird sources.ist
<nalioth> list
<rukuartic> nalioth: I have the horrible feeling that I've installed lots of dapper packages that shouldn't have been installed...
<nalioth> rukuartic: good for you, change your sources to edgy and your system will fix itself
<rukuartic> nalioth: thanks :3
<rukuartic> oooh my goodness. LESSON TO ALL PEOPLE: If you're using edgy eft, check stuff from sourceomatic.
* rukuartic eats some humble halibut.
<rukuartic> nalioth and jrib, thanks and kudos.
#ubuntu-classroom 2006-12-08
<nothlit> !sourceomatic
<ubotu> source-o-matic is a webpage where you can (re)generate your sources.list - http://www.ubuntu-nl.org/source-o-matic.  It does not currently support Edgy sources.  When asked if it will, the reply was "maybe".
<nothlit> ^
<nalioth> ubotu is not the only path to source-o-matic
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about is not the only path to source-o-matic - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<gnomefreak> why would you use source-o-matic for edgy when there is no edgy repos for it?
<nothlit> no I was just saying source-o-matic doesn't support edgy
<nothlit> gnomefreak, not knowing any better or being taught by the same?
<php-freak> I don't know if any one would know this or not, but in ubuntu spreadsheet program, is there like already premade templates I can download that will allow me too record my hours, so I can forward them to my clients? or does ubuntu support a program like this?
<nalioth> open office has spreadsheets
<nalioth> i believe gnumeric is a spreadsheet thing
<thebigearl> nacht quakenet, ich geh saufn :D
<tonyyarusso> whaa?
<nalioth> they thought they were on quakenet
<nalioth> and were saying good night
<mc__> da sieht man mal wieder was fr n niveau die quake-netter haben
<tonyyarusso> gotcha
<jrib> hello Hexo[AG] 
<jrib> Hexo[AG] : these are fat32 and ntfs drives correct?
<Hexo[AG] > I just finished reformatting
<Hexo[AG] > to ext3
<jrib> ah
<Hexo[AG] > I'm gona use that as backup then reformat the ntfs to ext3 too
<jrib> then in that case you can just use chmod and/or chgrp
<Hexo[AG] > well.. that's the plan
<jrib> Do you understand how permissions work?
<Hexo[AG] > yep
<jrib> ok what do you want it to be?
<Hexo[AG] > I have permissions for root, user and all ?
<Hexo[AG] > read, write and execute yes?
<jrib> owner, group, others/all
<Hexo[AG] > *sigh* I've alot to learn
<Hexo[AG] > but yea, I just want to be able to rwx on my normal user
<jrib> ok, well you can just give your user ownership
<Hexo[AG] > :o
<jrib> or you can setup something with groups
<Hexo[AG] > how?
<jrib> to change ownership to hexo:   sudo chown hexo:hexo /some/path
<Hexo[AG] > hexo:hexo ?
<jrib> hexo:hexo actually changes the owner to hexo as well as the group
<Hexo[AG] > ah ok
<jrib> foo:bar would change owner to foo and group to bar
<nothlit> theres also SUID/GUID/ and sticky bit permissions btw
<Hexo[AG] > so in this case it would me /media/hdc1 right?
<jrib> heh don't complicate things :)
<Hexo[AG] > err be*
<nothlit> aww
<jrib> Hexo[AG] : yes
<jrib> after you are done, tell us what this command outputs:  ls -ld /media/hdc1
<nothlit> Only use /media if you want you drive to show up in Places/Computer/and the Desktop
<Hexo[AG] > drwxr-xr-x 3 some user 4096 2006-12-08 22:33 /media/hdc1
<jrib> "some"? "user"?
<Hexo[AG] > edited it out
<jrib> ok I see
<Hexo[AG] > it just seemed a bit.. private >.>
<jrib> ok well you should be able to read, write, and execute then
<jrib> rwx for owner r-x for group and r-x for others
<jrib> d means directory
<Hexo[AG] > ah ok
<Hexo[AG] > well, thank you very much :D
<jrib> do you have stuff inside /media/hdc1?
<Hexo[AG] > 2 ntfs partitions, floppy and cdrom
<Hexo[AG] > oh
<Hexo[AG] > I thought you meant /media <.<
<Hexo[AG] > well, I have this Lost+Found folder that I seem to be unable to do anything with
<nothlit> oh thats only for filesystem recovery really
<jrib> yeah, that's part of the filesystem
<Hexo[AG] > ah ok
<Hexo[AG] > but yea
<Hexo[AG] > I can put stuff in there now
<Hexo[AG] > :D
<jrib> ok good
<Hexo[AG] > after I'm done backing up, I'm changing the other 2 ntfs partitions to ext3 too
<Hexo[AG] > I think I should be allright with that though
<Hexo[AG] > after this :D
<Hexo[AG] > Thanks a load for the help :)
<jrib> np
<nalioth> jrib: you the only user (besides me) that uses this channel?
<jrib> nalioth: I have not seen anyone else using it
<tonyyarusso> I do on occasion
#ubuntu-classroom 2006-12-09
<DerXero> rausch ausschlafen
<mah> Sollst du Deutsch sprechen? :)
<DerXero> ja
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> anthony.freenode.net
<mdm1000> Hello.  anyone able to help me find out where Disk Manager went in Edgy, and how to add items to the Places list in nautilus?
<owh> mdm1000: You should be in #ubuntu for that question, here we're going to see if we can help m0dY
<mdm1000> ok, sorry
<m0dY> owh, :)
<m0dY> so now i have cloned sysctl.conf & passwd & shadow
<owh> Ok, can I set some rules, or will someone smack me if I suggest that?
<owh> For those sitting around, m0dY has done rm -rf /etc/*
<Jordan_U> I always like a good "bring a comp back from the edge of death by it's bootstraps" challenge :)
<owh> I strongly suspect that m0dY has already done too much "fixing" to recover it, but we'll see.
<owh> I'd like to suggest that m0dY takes no actions until we are certain that the action won't make things worse.
<owh> Can we agree on that?
<m0dY> exactly at owh kindly stated, so for now althought i have passwd & shadow when i do reset the root password it gets changed in the shadow file but won't let me login with it through ssh
<Jordan_U> I'm good with that
<owh> Ok, first of all, I understand that m0dY's machine is Fedora, not Ubuntu. So bear that in mind if you make suggestions.
<m0dY> owh,Jordan_U, im now in a stay still situation
<owh> Let's get some data first.
<m0dY> sure
<owh> Where is the machine physically, is it with you?
<m0dY> no, i only have ssh access to it through one session which im dying for not to loose it
<owh> Is the machine in any way physically accessible by you?
<m0dY> no way
<owh> You like making things hard don't you?
<owh> Ok, is this machine mission critical?
<m0dY> not my choice :(
<m0dY> yes
<owh> Give me a $ per day figure if you can.
<m0dY> i actually was having about 7 ssh sessionn opened and mis choosed the right window and gone through my way
<nothlit> If you can't log in as root, its probably because the sshd_config isn't set to allow that
<nothlit> but thats not a safe thing to do
<owh> That's because there is no /etc directory left :-)
<nothlit> oh
<m0dY> nothlit, no, i have this option enabled in sshd_config
<owh> So, are we talking big fish, or really annoying if we completely break it?
<owh> m0dY: Not anymore you don't.
<nothlit> m0dY, you shouldn't, you can always su/sudo
<m0dY> no no, i have all FOLDERS in /etc/ but lost all FILES only
<nothlit> people know the root account exists
<owh> m0dY: Then you didn't do rm -rf /etc/*
<nothlit> just reinstall all the progs that are missing configs
<nothlit> or dpkg-reconfigure them
<owh> Because if you did. there would be no directories.
<Jordan_U> No he said he did an rm -f /etc/*
<owh> nothlit: Can you please read back to what we started with?
<m0dY> nothlit, i have ssh access tighted for one ip only which is my personal one
<m0dY> owh, yes, only rm -f /etc/*
<owh> *excellent*
* owh checks something...
<nothlit> oh sorry
<owh> Back in a tick.
<m0dY> i now have /etc/{fstab,mtab,passwd,shadow,sysctl.conf,yum.conf} in place
<owh> Hmm, that means that the *only* files missing are the ones in /etc/ directly, not any files in the sub directories.
<owh> Wait up.
<m0dY> i also check the proper permissions for those files when creating them
<owh> That's not our immediate problem. Your users and password file is the first problem.
<m0dY> owh, no.. thanks god sub directories wasn't touched
<owh> Let me explain.
<m0dY> yeah sure
<owh> Each user when it is created gets assigned a number, called the UID.
<m0dY> yeah, know that
<owh> That number is used to allocate permissions to *all* the files on the system.
<m0dY> yes
<owh> If you just stuff any users into the machine, all the permissions will be broken.
<owh> Including the permissions used to boot the machine.
<owh> So, you cannot just create a user/password/group file and cross your fingers.
<Jordan_U> ( curious ) including single user mode?
<m0dY> owh, ok
<nothlit> single user mode = root only
<owh> In fact, the more users you create, the worse it gets.
<m0dY> sure
<owh> Hi Darst m0dY has just removed all the files in /etc :-)
<Jordan_U> nothlit: I know, I was asking if you would still be able to boot in single user mode if you screwed up permissions
<m0dY> i added only what was in,, i hardly used my memory to remember all
<Darst> Hey Owh... m0dy... ouch...
<owh> Now, the suggestion of booting into single user mode is valid, but only if there is enough information to boot.
<m0dY> Darst, =(
<Jordan_U> Darst: But none of the directories luckily
<owh> Because the machine is remote, we cannot just stick a CD in the drive, boot into rescue mode and cross our fingers.
<nothlit> all your init files are still intact?
<owh> Yes
<Darst> So we have the ability to rebuild ... make it stronger, faster?
<Darst> :D
<nothlit> but the service configs arent
<owh> Correct.
<m0dY> nothlit, all are in yes
<owh> And stuff like resolv.conf, etc.
<owh> Which we'll all need if we're going to be able to remote connect to this machine ever again.
<owh> So, we won't be just fiddling :)
<nothlit> can you grep the disc for those files?
<owh> Not really.
<nothlit> what filesystem are you using
<m0dY> ext3
<owh> There are undelete tools for ext2 file systems, but they require that the software is installed, we're not at that point yet :-)
<owh> Also, they require that the drive is unmounted, bit hard if we're running off it.
<owh> So, that's not yet an option.
<owh> Also m0dY didn't help by starting to fix things :-)
<Jordan_U> owh: Possibly eventually clever use of toram
<m0dY> i only started cloning files with their default contents from another machine which have almost the same configuration and added users
<owh> Hmm, if we can launch stuff, but likely we won't be able to do.
<owh> m0dY: Which files have you now created?
<owh> (You can run the ls command :-)
<m0dY> passwd,shadow,sysctl.conf,resolv.conf,yum.conf,group,updatedb.conf
<m0dY> shells,vimrc
<nothlit> what about that military recovery tool on sourceforge
<m0dY> sudoers
<m0dY> nothlit, got no idea about it
<owh> nothlit: How do you propose to use that if you cannot boot off a rescue cd, cannot get to the machine physically, and have one working ssh session left?
<nothlit> can't install anything?
<nothlit> I don't know how yum works so
<owh> Ok, I'm opening up the floor for suggestions, keep it short, give some extra details if we need to understand your proposal.
<m0dY> nothlit, well, all u need to know about yum is that you can't do a re-install-all-pkgs just like that
* Darst puts up hand to be next in line for a diagnosis of a problem...
<Jordan_U> owh: Is there any chance that the files which are still in use ( and thus not yet really deleted ) can somehow be recovered?
<owh> So, one suggestion is to do the equivalent of dpkg-reconfigure --all.
<m0dY> also yum checks BUNCH of files under /etc so i don't suggest touching it also
<owh> Excellent suggestion Jordan_U, I was reading about that last week.
<owh> So, that's the second suggestion.
<owh> Any other takers?
<owh> I suppose one suggestion is to recreate each file manually.
<owh> If we can get ssh working, we can copy stuff across.
<owh> Ok, how does the room feel about attempting to ssh out of the broken box back to our console? Anyone know of any files that will break?
<m0dY> owh, yeah i think that will be the most safe way and if i just could get ssh to work back again i could then restore each file even in a month but i won't be afraid of loosing totaly root access
<nothlit> so why doesn't grepping the disc work?
<owh> nothlit: Because the disc is live and has been written to, besides, Jordan_U's suggestion of recovering files that are open is a good one.
<m0dY> owh, recover by using ?
<Jordan_U> owh: If they are open they havn't been written over and therefore should be grepable
<nothlit> that should work for some of the files
<owh> Exactly. The ones that are open still.
<owh> Ok, stop for a moment.
<owh> Does anyone recall the process using /proc or /sys, or do I need to google that?
<m0dY> owh, that's a briliant one
<owh> Ok, m0dY on the broken machine, run the command "lsof|grep /etc"
<owh> What that will do is list the open files in etc.
<m0dY> ok
<Jordan_U> Does that include open but "deleted" files?
<m0dY> ok
<m0dY> http://pastebin.ca/272804
<owh> I expect it to.
<m0dY> nothing good in that
<owh> Hmm funnily enough, that's identical to mine :-)
<owh> Ok, read this for background information: http://www.hackinglinuxexposed.com/articles/20020507.html
<m0dY> i c
<m0dY> ok
<owh> Hmm.
<owh> As I investigate my own machine, I notice no processes that appear to have any files open in /etc/
<m0dY> so actually there could be places storing files under etc ?
<owh> Huh?
<owh> I do not understand what you are asking me.
<m0dY> i mean under /proc there could be files loading some info from files under /etc/ so i could get what was in back
<cafuego_> there are no files in /proc
<m0dY> pointers or something?!
<cafuego_> not quite, but you can think of them like that
<m0dY> yeah
<owh> No, proc is the representation of information in memory, including inodes which exist on disk, which is where the file still exists until it's closed.
<cafuego_> they're hooks into the kernel that cause the kernel to print info when they're accessed
<owh> Ok, on the broken machine, can you ping the Internet?
<cafuego_> if you deleted an open file, then indeed the kernel won't free the disk space
<m0dY> owh, after restoring resolv.conf, yes i can
<owh> Have you already done that?
<m0dY> yes
<owh> So, you can now ping the Internet?
<m0dY> yes
<owh> On your working machine, is there a file called /etc/hosts.equiv
<m0dY> only ..... "host.conf    hosts        hosts.allow  hosts.deny"
<owh> Did you have the locate command installed on the broken machine?
<m0dY> yes and i managed to bring it back to life
<m0dY> both locate & find are now working
<owh> How *exactly*?
<m0dY> well, restored the updatedb config file and added the line for the users slocate and ran updatedb
<owh> FUCK.
<owh> All was fine until you ran updatedb.
<m0dY> :S
<owh> At that point you destroyed the list of files in /etc/
<m0dY> what da hell have i done !?
<owh> Sigh.
<owh> Ok, well, onwards and upwards. Sorry for the expletive.
<m0dY> well, i think i cant tell what files exactly was under /etc/
<owh> No, your computer could, you're just guessing.
<m0dY> im hittin my head to the wall now anyhow
* owh takes a deep breath.
<m0dY> no i can get it from the current machine
<m0dY> the working one
<m0dY> just the problem is in the contents
<owh> No, they are different.
<m0dY> different in names ?
<owh> The OS is a different version, anything that is the same is accidental.
<owh> I mean, that's overstating it, but essentially true.
<m0dY> yeah with u in that
<owh> The problem is this. The files in your /etc directory might have been modified since they were installed, either by you, by someone else, or by another application coming along and tweaking it when it was being installed.
<owh> So, we have a problem.
<m0dY> yes im awar of that
<m0dY> *aware
<owh> Ok.
<owh> On the broken machine, try to ssh from the broken computer to the working computer. Nothing fancy, just an ssh.
<nothlit> he just wants to restore basic functionality first though
<m0dY> but actually if i even get the machine to its state as a newly installed machine then i would easily add the newly added stuff
<m0dY> ok
<owh> nothlit: Sure, but that basic functionality also includes the layout of his drives, essential services and usernames and passwords.
<owh> nothlit: All of which are different from a standard config file.
<owh> So, a newly installed machine might be what you think you want, but it isn't really.
<owh> So, does the ssh out of the broken box work?
<nothlit> its mostly the services really
<nothlit> what was this machine's purpose?
<owh> nothlit: Some of which we'll require to connect to it again.
<m0dY> owh, no ssh out of box not working
<owh> m0dY: What does it do?
<m0dY> no, it works.
<owh> Say that again, the ssh out of the broken box works?
<m0dY> im in the working machine now through the broken one
<m0dY> yes, it works
<owh> Excellent.
<nothlit> m0dY, did you recreate your fstab yet?
<owh> Hold on, one thing at a time.
<m0dY> yes, fstab & mtab
<owh> m0dY: Go to the /root directory
<owh> That is on the broken machine.
<m0dY> in it
<nothlit> well he's not unmounting the disc and using recovery tools, its better to do it now so he doesn't miss it
<owh> So, you'll need to close the ssh session from the broken to the working machine, then go to the /root directory
<m0dY> yes, i got u on that
<owh> What I intend to do is copy the files from the working computer onto a backup directory on the broken machine, then deal with them one at a time. Any objections?
<m0dY> now in the /root of the broken machine
<m0dY> scp maybe ?
<owh> Just to be sure, we're not talking /, we're talking the home directory of the root user.
<m0dY> yeah man
<m0dY> :)
<owh> Ok, make a directory /root/working
<m0dY> ok
<owh> Go into it.
<m0dY> ok
<owh> scp -r root@working:/etc/ .
<owh> That will copy the whole /etc tree from the working machine.
<owh> We're going to do that to get a sense of differences between the two.
<m0dY> ok
<owh> Done?
<m0dY> fixing some ssh issue and will be done now..
<owh> Now we'll make a different directory with just the files we're going to play with: cd /root && mkdir working-files && cd working-files && scp root@working:/etc/* .
<owh> That will copy just the files in /etc, not the directories.
* owh is going to be called away to dinner in five minutes.
<owh> The intention is to diff the /etc on the working machine with that of the broken machine, so you can determine what things are different, that is, differences in configurations, packages, etc. Don't think of it in terms of actual options, think big picture.
<m0dY> ok its now transferring
<owh> The next step is to one by one move a file from working-files into /etc and fix them locally one at a time.
<owh> That won't get everything done, but it should be most of it.
<owh> Are there any comments people want to make?
<m0dY> that would be the good way to go
<owh> Any thing I've forgotten?
<owh> As nothlit suggests, make sure that fstab and mtab are correct, without them nothing will mount.
<nothlit> nah, pretty great simple solution to get a working system
<owh> The fdisk -l command should help you determine your mount points.
<nothlit> m0dY, do you remember any services you may have installed on this broken machine that aren't on the working one?
<owh> I'm going to be eating dinner shortly, I'll leave this session open. I'll be back after some digestion. Feel free to stick around. Anyone who needs to reach me: http://itmaze.com.au/
<m0dY> nothlit, both are almost clones in all services/settings/configurations
<nothlit> also make absolutely sure all the networking files are set up correctly
<owh> My single recommendation is to take it very slowly, do one file at a time, nothing in bulk, check and re-check, assume the worst.
<m0dY> oh yeah
<owh> Oh, and do a backup :-)
<m0dY> owh, definitely will =''(
<owh> Have fun :-)
<m0dY> owh, bunch of THANKS for sticking along with me all this
<m0dY> and many big THANKS for all in this room
<m0dY> ill go with my way now and will update if i faced any problems
<nothlit> that sucks that yum can't resolve those issues
<m0dY> nothlit, thats suck that im using fedora on a production box
<m0dY> which i would definitely won't be doing anymore
<Jordan_U> What sucks is that you neglected to back up, which you DEFINATELY won't be doing any more :)
<m0dY> Jordan_U, i will be doing backups in future
<nothlit> mondo is a great tool for backups, cd, dvd, tape, nfs
<m0dY> will check it out
<nothlit> its gpl
<nothlit> ' Mondo is in use by Lockheed-Martin, Nortel Networks, Siemens, HP, IBM, NASA's JPL, the US Dept of Agriculture, dozens of smaller companies, and tens of thousands of users.'
<m0dY> and gpl !?
<nothlit> yup :)
<m0dY> www.mondorescue.org/ ?
<nothlit> and the rescue discs it burns are bootable/restore themselves and yep
<nothlit> you might be able to install it with yum
<nothlit> after you finish doing all your recovery
<m0dY> yeah im wokrin on it
<nothlit> quintuple check your work
<nothlit> also you can use make recovery isos to burn
<owh> So, how did it go?
<nothlit> i think hes still working on it
<owh> Cool, well I'll be off for the evening if that's the case.
* owh wipes brow :-)
<owh> Thanks for your input nothlit and Jordan_U!
* owh waves bye.
<m0dY> for all who helped me out here, the trick is done and box is fully functional again =D
<m0dY> thanks owh, nothlit, Jordan_U....
<ken> hi
<jrib> bye
<nalioth> jrib: you about?
<jrib> nalioth: yep
<jrib> what's up?
* mode/#ubuntu-classroom [+o jrib]  by ChanServ
<nalioth> you wanted something fixed ?
<nalioth> 1165682117 10:35 < jrib> Can someone add a link to the schedule in -classroom?
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-classroom:jrib] : Ubuntu Open Week has now finished - thanks , everyone! | The classroom schedule is located at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom | Transcripts and logs are at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ClassroomTranscripts and http://www.tonyyarusso.is-a-geek.com/irclogs/openweek/ - actually down atm for hardware troubleshooting (bloody clock..)
<nalioth> you can deop yourself when you're done  :)
* mode/#ubuntu-classroom [-o jrib]  by jrib
<jrib> thanks
<nalioth> fanks?
<JurB> irc.gnome.org
* mode/#ubuntu-classroom [+o apokryphos]  by ChanServ
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-classroom:apokryphos] : Ubuntu Open Week has now finished - thanks , everyone! | The classroom schedule is located at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom | Transcripts and logs are at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ClassroomTranscripts and http://www.tonyyarusso.is-a-geek.com/irclogs/openweek/
* mode/#ubuntu-classroom [-o apokryphos]  by apokryphos
#ubuntu-classroom 2006-12-10
<ajayc> LOL
<ajayc> oh sorry
<ajayc> Everyone is welcome to #ubuntu-cafe
<Zububwa> can someone walk me through setting up a static ip address through my linksys wusb54g wireless router
<jrib> try #ubuntu, more eyes there
<jo3> hi
<tonyyarusso> Hi jo3 .  Pretty quiet in here atm.
<jo3> :)
<jo3> too bad, iam learning linux, iam free, now i must learn
<jo3> how can i decompress .rar
<tonyyarusso> !rar
<ubotu> rar is a non-free archive format created by Rarsoft. For instructions on accessing .rar files through the Archive Manager view https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FileCompression. There is a free (as in speech) unrar utility as well, see !info unrar-free
<tonyyarusso> If you're new to our IRC world,
<tonyyarusso> !bot
<ubotu> I am ubotu, all-knowing infobot. You can browse my brain at http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl - Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots
<jo3> ;)
<tonyyarusso> ^^ one of the greatest things ever
<jo3> yes
<jo3> !ati
<ubotu> To install the Ati/NVidia drivers for your video card, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BinaryDriverHowto
<tonyyarusso> To be used with care though, as we don't have factoids for _everything_ (close)
<tonyyarusso> !fishing
<ubotu> Please investigate with me only in /msg or in #ubuntu-bots (see also !Bot). Abusing the channel bots will only result in angry ops... ;-)
<jo3> hehe
<tonyyarusso> In other words, we often use the bot in channels to answer someone's question, but once you know about the bot and think it will answer yours, /msg is plenty
<nalioth> you'll probably find a lot more help in #ubuntu or at help.ubuntu.com
<nalioth> the bot can be hit or miss
<jo3> i've installed os, what you advice me to do next?
<jo3> use computer? hehe
<tonyyarusso> Basically
<tonyyarusso> There's a good "getting started / common questions" page at the site just mentioned that's worth a read.
<jo3> ntfs read and write in ubuntu dapper? it works ok?
<tonyyarusso> I have no idea.
<tonyyarusso> People have been saying it works better and better all the time, but I a) Don't trust it, and b) Don't have any need for it.
<jrib> ditto
<jo3> :)
<tonyyarusso> We usually tell people it can be done, but be very very careful
<jrib> don't worry jo3, in a few weeks time you will be making more space for ubuntu by getting rid of windows
<nalioth> jo3: i suggest you use Windows(tm) to read and write to your ntfs stuff
<jo3> ya
<jo3> yes
<nalioth> jo3: if you can, reinstall win2k/xp on a fat32 partition and you won't have any trouble
<jo3> i must backup everything and format in fat32 yes
<nalioth> i suggest not having windows at all, but that is my personal opinion
<jo3> fat32 is linux system right?
<tonyyarusso> No
<jo3> i want windows no more
<tonyyarusso> Was Windows pre-what, NT?  But both Linux and Windows can use fat fine
<tonyyarusso> No file permissions on it though
<jo3> you know any linux for artists comunity, anything?
<tonyyarusso> I kept Windows for about a year myself, but hardly ever used it after about three months, then wiped it.
<tonyyarusso> Well, there's the Ubuntu Artwork team if you want to help develop art.
<tonyyarusso> Not sure about just users.  Probably somewhere.
<jo3> ill just pass to linux everything i do in windows, then it will diparear also
<jo3> i window got stuck, how can i force to close it?
<tonyyarusso> Come again?
<jo3> my add remove windows wont close
<tonyyarusso> oh.  Not sure what the process name is, but sometimes clicking again will give you a "Force Quit" option, and there's always the 'kill' command.  gnome-system-monitor as well can help.
<jrib> and xkill
<jo3> done
<jo3> root@ubuntu:~# glxinfo |grep direct
<jo3> Error: unable to open display (null)
<jrib> what card do you have?
<jo3> must fix this right? i want to do some 3d in blender, must get this to work
<jo3> radeon 9200
<jrib> !ati
<ubotu> To install the Ati/NVidia drivers for your video card, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BinaryDriverHowto
<jo3> cant get drivers?
<jo3> aim checking it
<jo3> Note that if you own an ATi card from the R400 series or below, you already have working 2D and may have accelerated 3D with the default drivers. These cards include:
<jo3>     *
<jo3>       R400 series Xnnn (X800, X750, etc) (2D only)
<jo3>     *
<jo3>       R300 series (9300+) (3D works nowadays)
<jo3>     *
<jo3>       R200 and R100 series (9200 and below)
#ubuntu-classroom 2007-12-06
<nono> hola
#ubuntu-classroom 2007-12-07
<ace09> hmm mo ones here
<ace09> hello?
<dholbach> MOTU Q&A session in 11 minutes
<dholbach> Welcome to another MOTU Q&A session!
<dholbach> Let's make a habit out of it and quickly introduce ourselves - who do we have here today?
<txwikinger2> txwikinger2 is here
 * dholbach is Daniel Holbach, member of the MOTU team for quite a while, trying to make it as straight-forward as possible to join the team and help out.
<dholbach> who else is in for the Q&A session today? :)
 * txwikinger2 is a MOTU-contributor and what's to become a member of the MOTU-team
 * dholbach high-fives txwikinger2 - that's great :)
<txwikinger2> s/what's/wants/
<dholbach> welcome void^
 * RainCT greets
<dholbach> hey RainCT
<void^> hello :)
<dholbach> I suspect a few other lurkers in here, that's fine
<dholbach> who of you is interested in MOTU but still very new to all the processes, new to packaging, etc?
<frenchy> dholbach: That'd be me.
<dholbach> welcome frenchy
<frenchy> dholbach: Hi there!
<dholbach> do you have any questions off the top off your hat already?
<dholbach> how did you find your journey with the MOTU team so far? :)
<txwikinger2> very interesting
<dholbach> anything that bothers you, anything that's unclear right now?
<frenchy> What's the best way to manage packages for 2 versions of a Distro?  i.e. Gutsy/Hardy.
<dholbach> for those of you just lurking and trying to figure out how cool MOTU is, I recommend https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted - it's a quick overview of interesting and important links
<dholbach> welcome dbkeen
<txwikinger2> good question frenchy
<dholbach> frenchy: as in test-building them?
<frenchy> dholbach: I have found -motu to be a huge source of help for me.
<dholbach> frenchy: that's great to hear :)
 * txwikinger2 agrees with frenchy
<dholbach> PPA is a good choice for "releasing" test packages for all kinds of releases
<dholbach> for building them locally, I'd either recommend having a chroot
<frenchy> Not really, ummm ... mainly around the debian/changelog file
<dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot is a good introduction
<dholbach> ah ok
<frenchy> dholbach: Yeah, but translations are being plucked from your PPA ATM.  As I found out yesterday.
<dholbach> the bug to get that fixed is filed and I hope it gets done soon
 * RainCT is also a Contributor who wants to become a MOTU, and he maintains a few packages in Debian
 * dholbach high-fives RainCT - excellent
<dholbach> so let's suppose you have updates of a package you want to get into both gutsy and hardy
<dholbach> the most obvious upload target is hardy as it is our current development release
<frenchy> dholbach: Yeah.
<dholbach> gutsy is released already, so we can't do uploads there directly
<frenchy> dholbach: But I've got existing users.
<dholbach> so for example you'd upload    gcalctool 2.21.0-0ubuntu1  to  hardy
<dholbach> if it has important fixes that need to go to gutsy, you'd want to upload to gutsy-updates in the end
<dholbach> in that case you'd follow the process described on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<dholbach> a list of criteria like for the update is available there
<dholbach> we try to only update minimal patches to -updates to just fix a single really important issue
<dholbach> so on the existing bug report you'd attach the minimal patch and get it uploaded to gutsy-proposed
<dholbach> that's what our eager testers install, so we'll get feedback on any regressions
<dholbach> for this upload you'd probably do something like     gcalctool 2.21.0-0ubuntu1~6.10prop1   gutsy-proposed
<dholbach> that way people can still upgrade to  2.21.0-0ubuntu1  once they upgrade to hardy
<dholbach> does that make sense?
<dholbach> getting the versioning right is really important
<txwikinger2> 6.10 or 7.10 ?
<dholbach> um sorry, 7.10 in this example
 * dholbach lives in the past
<txwikinger2> :)
<txwikinger2> so what happens when you upgrade to hardy? will the hardy package upgrade the gutsy package?
<dholbach> once you've got enough good feedback on the proposed updates, you'll do an update to gutsy-updates (and use 2.21.0-0ubuntu1~7.10 as version number)
<dholbach> txwikinger2: yes
<dholbach> daniel@lovegood:~$ dpkg --compare-versions 1.2.3-1~prop1 lt 1.2.3-1; echo $?
<dholbach> 0
<dholbach> daniel@lovegood:~$
<dholbach> so that means   1.2.3-1~prop1 < 1.2.3-1
<frenchy> dholbach: Sorry, I don't think that I've explained myself very clearly.  The most cumbersome part of my packaging is keeping 2 versions of the debian directory and swapping them in/out before the dpkg-buildpackage ... is there a better way?
<frenchy> dholbach: Although I'm very interested in what you were saying.
<dholbach> which means the upgrade path from gutsy (+ -updates) to hardy is safe
<dholbach> frenchy: ah ok, I see
<dholbach> well in case you're the person that takes most case of the package, you could think about using bzr for the packaging
<dholbach> in that case you could have a gutsy and a hardy branch of the packaging
<dholbach> bzr-builddeb is a great tool to make package maintenance in bzr easy
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/UseBzrAndBzrBuildpackage unfortunately is a bit sparse
<frenchy> dholbach: Yeah I had that but it became very messy keeping 2 versions up-to-date.
<dholbach> somebody asked for a MOTU School session about it and I think that James Westby (the bzr-builddeb author) would be happy to give one - we should really get it on the schedule
<dholbach> frenchy: really? what were the problems you encountered?
<frenchy> dholbach: Well, I'm new to bzr.  I've been needing to update the Hardy one based on feedback from REVU but every time I did that I really needed to be also updating the Gutsy version.
<dholbach> generally the "old release" branches shouldn't receive that many commits as the packages are released and we don't want to introduce too many changes in a stable release
<dholbach> frenchy: ok, so your case isn't really the "normal maintaining work-flow"
<frenchy> dholbach: Ok, so it's really just a teething issue.
<frenchy> Yup.
<dholbach> you seem to do the changes on both releases
<dholbach> in that case only the debian/changelog file should require merging
<dholbach> a    ~/project/gutsy$ bzr merge ../hardy      should in most cases do what you want
<dholbach> if you have your branches publically available and run into problems again, please let me know and we figure something out together
<dholbach> OK?
<frenchy> Yeah, I had o keep a separate changelog.  Seems a bit crazy.
<dholbach> a separate changelog shouldn't be necessary, I guess
<dholbach> do we have any other questions? any other workflow or packaging bits that seem cumbersome, irksome or just wrong to you guys at the moment?
<txwikinger2> the most cumbersome for me is to slowly understand the different parts of the process
<frenchy> Sorry, but when you do that merge it'll clobber the gutsy changelog with the hardy one.  So then I should replace it.
<dholbach> txwikinger2: what are you referring to? do you have any examples?
<dholbach> frenchy: in most cases, I'd probably keep the hardy portions and add a "upload to gutsy" entry at the top with a correct version number
<txwikinger2> well, like one package needed to get an sync from debian .. I thought I had to provide a debdiff for it.. such small things
<dholbach> txwikinger2: do you feel the documentation is not clear enough?
<dholbach> or not obvious enough to look for it?
<txwikinger2> I think you guys know a lot of this stuff inside out, but when you come new to it can be confusing
<txwikinger2> I think there is a lot of good documentation
<RainCT> txwikinger2: (the debdiff would be for a merge)
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> so what I try to establish is this wiki structure:
<dholbach> UbuntuDevelopment/* for all process related information (sync, merges, release schedule, etc)
<dholbach> PackagingGuide/* for all packaging details
<txwikinger2> maybe sometimes it is either difficult to know where to look, or to have a overview kinda thing
<dholbach> MOTU/* for all stuff that has to do with the MOTU team organisation
<txwikinger2> It is not really major, since there is help from the MOTUs which helps the learning curve
<dholbach> but I feel there's a certain amount of knowledge you have to learn by osmosis, by hanging out with people, talking to them, reading mailing list posts and so on
<dholbach> because only very few people read the whole wiki documentation before they start joining the MOTU team :)
<dholbach> and I'm one of those that probably wouldn't do that :)
<dholbach> if you ever feel documentation is missing or wrong, please let me know and I'll try to fix it
<txwikinger2> yes, I will
<dholbach> do we have any other questions?
<dholbach> if I remember correctly you all submitted patches and packages for sponsoring already?
<txwikinger2> yes
<frenchy> Me too
<dholbach> how did that work out for you?
<txwikinger2> good. I was helped in a very friendly way, and learned a lot by very good comments
<dholbach> great
<frenchy> Well, mine's a very specialised application and not many MOTUs will have the hardware to use it.  So the sponsoring has been hard to get.  But the packaging advice has been excellent.
<dholbach> frenchy: what applicaiton is it?
<frenchy> Cool, a chance for a plug ... Me TV, a DVB application for GNOME.
<frenchy> Me TV, it's TV for me computer.
<dholbach> ahhh nice
<dholbach> well, if it's good to go from a packaging POV, it should go on, so people can test it and report bugs back :)
<frenchy> dholbach: "go on"?  REVU?
<dholbach> I'll make sure to take a look at it later on
<dholbach> sorry, I meant it should move on into the archive
<dholbach> is there a particular packaging problem you all have run into recently and want to discuss?
<frenchy> dholbach: Thank you, I'd appreciate any packaging help you can give.  I think that I've got it pretty good shape.
<dholbach> rock and roll :)
<dholbach> is there anything you DIDN'T like up until now, anything you think that should be improve or change?
<dholbach> somebody should blog about this... nothing bad to say about MOTU! :-)
<frenchy> I've got a ton of questions but I'm trying to be polite and let someone else have a go.
<RainCT> heh
<dholbach> frenchy: fire away
<dholbach> frenchy: just ask your questions :)
<dholbach> they might be of interest to others
<frenchy> Is a man page essential for a GUI application?  I've asked this question in -motu ... and the answer was "yes" ...  but never found out why?
<dholbach> it's not essential - it's definitely nice to have
<dholbach> especially in cases where you have command line options that make a change
<dholbach> sometimes you don't want to run a command, but how to invoke it properly before or have a place for good information about it
<frenchy> Can the man page include information about how to set up the application.  I just don't see this very often.
<cjwatson_> even a manual page that says that the program takes no options and explains itself in the GUI is better than nothing
<frenchy> ?
<cjwatson_> because that's not necessarily something you know up-front
<cjwatson> the man page can include anything you like :)
<frenchy> Cool, Ta.
<dholbach> I agree that in cases like "a gnome applet" adding a manpage that explains that you should use the "add to panel" dialog can be a bit irksome :)
<cjwatson> as dholbach says, it's not critical, but it's something you should add for smooth integration
<cjwatson> (the way Debian policy looks upon this is that you can upload a package without a man page, but you should file a bug about it to remind yourself or somebody else to do it in the future)
<dholbach> anything else that came across your mind, when receiving review feedback or doing the packaging?
<frenchy> With translating ... with my understanding of it I get a "chicken before the egg" problem.  Can you please explain at what part of the process I'm meant to add the translations?
<dholbach> frenchy: I don' think I understand
<dholbach> if you are upstream, you 1) make sure the code is translatable, 2) generate the .pot file, 3) spread it, 4) put .po files back into the source code?
<frenchy> Well, I make the application, upstream tarball, load the translations up to LP.  But then when all the translations roll in months later I have to update the upstream with partially old translatiosn.
<frenchy> Am I missing something?
<frenchy> Is this the nature of the beast?
<dholbach> the way that GNOME deals with it is: do development, have a string freeze, let people do translations, release
<dholbach> it might be good to notify your translators about "hey I'm going to do a release in a few days" or something
<frenchy> Ohhhh ... I've seen that in the release schedule and never knew what it was for ... thanks.
<dholbach> it's good to have the .pot file in rosetta up-to-date too
<dholbach> rock and roll :)
<frenchy> Some of them are slow though ... you know ... life gets in the way.
<dholbach> RainCT, txwikinger2: everything's been smooth for you up until now?
<dholbach> frenchy: any more of yout "ton of questions"? :)
 * RainCT is trying to remember if he had any problem...
<frenchy> I
<frenchy> I've heard some people complaining about CDBS and how it's not ideal ... I use CDBS.  Is it recommended that I use CDBS?
<dholbach> that's a good question :)
 * RainCT also uses CDBS and loves it :P
<dholbach> I like using CDBS since it spares me the pain of copy-ing and past-ing huge sections from other packages
<dholbach> a definite problem CDBS has: it's really hard to look behind the scenes and know what happens
<dholbach> and the documentation is not ideal either
<frenchy> Yeah, that's what I heard.
<Amaranth> so either it works fine or you spend a weekend crying trying to figure out what it's doing :P
<dholbach> for new contributors it's not easy to understand from something like
<dholbach> include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk
<dholbach> include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/simple-patchsys.mk
<dholbach> include /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/gnome.mk
<dholbach> what the individual important build targets are
<frenchy> Ohh ... it works great for me.  I just didn't want other people laughing at me for using it.
<dholbach> there's a fine divide between "not having to care about details" and "not knowing what really happens" :)
<frenchy> In general, it's a good idea then?
<frenchy> As a developer I know all about that.
<dholbach> I think it's definitely good to take a look at a lot of different packages and read the policy when you're unsure
 * RainCT remembers that CDBS's documentation is a problem.. Every page he looks says something different... :S   (for example one says that install:: gets executed before dh_install, another document says that it does later..)
<dholbach> CDBS shouldn't be a complete black box for you :)
<dholbach> there's one definite page at:
<dholbach> https://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml
<frenchy> What time does the class end?
<dholbach> got it from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation
<dholbach> in 4 minutes
<dholbach> but you can continue to ask questions in #ubuntu-motu
<dholbach> or on ubuntu-motu-mentors@lists.ubuntu.com
<ian_brasil> dholbach: IMHO opinion this needs rewriting in the ubuntu style!!
<RainCT> thanks, bookmarked
<dholbach> ok... any final comments? is this session useful to you?
<frenchy> For sure.  Very late though in Canberra.
 * ian_brasil catching up
<dholbach> frenchy: ohhhh ok :)
<dholbach> I can imagine
<dholbach> I really hope that somebody else will pick this up and run a session suitable for people in other timezones
<dholbach> for example 0:00 UTC would be nice, if somebody did that
<frenchy> Thanks.
<dholbach> I'll ask around if somebody volunteers
<dholbach> ok great.... thanks for joining the session and thanks for your good questions
<dholbach> see you online soon again
 * dholbach rushes out for a dogwalk :)
<ian_brasil> dholbach: thx again for running thse sessions
<dholbach> ian_brasil: my pleasure :)
<ian_brasil> i have a quick question not really about packaging but about best practice
<dholbach> fire away
<ian_brasil> i have patched hildon into some software
<ian_brasil> and it modifies the glade file
<dholbach> so you patched some software to make use of hildon, ok?
<ian_brasil> upstream are nervous about incorporating the patch
<dholbach> that's a bit problematic then
<ian_brasil> because merging the patch would mean to break it after
<ian_brasil> a short while without me even noticing.
<ian_brasil> me = the maintainer
<dholbach> I'd recommend talking to the upstream people and let them know that you tried it out and got good feedback from a lot of people
<dholbach> maybe that helps, generally upstream folks like having their software work in a lot of different places
<ian_brasil> the problem is that glade does not have hildon compatibility
<ian_brasil> so every
<ian_brasil> change done against the original one has to be merged (or at least
<ian_brasil> checked for relevance) to the Hildon-specific one
<dholbach> right, so if upstream merged your patch upstream you would have to check every new release again and again
<dholbach> I think that's what's bound to happen
<ian_brasil> dholbach: right
<dholbach> I think there's no good way around testing :)
<dholbach> I'm sorry if I can't give you a better answer than that
<dholbach> lool might also know some more about that
<dholbach> he's been in touch with upstreams and patching their stuff much more than I did
<ian_brasil> no, i just wanted to know if i should try to push hard(er) for it to be accepted upstream
<txwikinger2> sorry, I had a phone call
<ian_brasil> if there was some precedent on this in ubuntu?
<dholbach> ian_brasil: I'd try to explain to them exactly what it does, that you have people who tested it and it brings no regressions and that they benefit from having their app run in various different places
<dholbach> ian_brasil: but I feel that's the best that you can do
<dholbach> try to ask the folks in #ubuntu-desktop
<dholbach> they've been in touch with GNOME folks a lot when it came to getting patches applied upstream
<dholbach> and have a bunch of stories (good and bad) about it to tell
<ian_brasil> dholbach: ah ok, thanks for the advice
<dholbach> thanks for the question ian_brasil
<dholbach> now I need to take my dog for a walk
<dholbach> see you guys later
<txwikinger2> dholbach: Yes things are going smooth for me :)
<dholbach> txwikinger2: great :)
<lool> Heya
<lool> ian_brasil: You need upstream to maintain the hildon flavor or you need to maintain it, but someone needs to check hildon still work after changes
<lool> ian_brasil: There are many ways, like having one glade file for hildon and regular one, or patching the main one at build etc.
<ian_brasil> lool: hi, i maintain 2 glade files
<ian_brasil> lool: so in this case it is better that then i maintain it as upstream does not have much experience with hildon
<ian_brasil> at least i can make sure it works ;)
<lool> ian_brasil: Basically someone needs to make sure changes work within hildon
<lool> The closest things are upstream, the easier
<lool> So if it's easy to maintain a small delta, that's best
<lool> If you need to maintain a separate file, you'll have to check whether they changed the way they use the glade file
<ian_brasil> lool: yes, i thought that.. hildon support in glade is definitely an itch for me a.t.m
#ubuntu-classroom 2008-12-01
 * PrivateVoid waves
#ubuntu-classroom 2008-12-02
<PrivateVoid> http://www.classroom20.com/group/ubuntu
<PrivateVoid> http://community.k12opensource.com/
#ubuntu-classroom 2008-12-03
 * PrivateVoid nods
 * pleia2 waves to PrivateVoid 
 * PrivateVoid waves back
<PrivateVoid> almost done with the BT team meeting
 * PrivateVoid waves again to pleia2 
 * Rocket2DMn peeks
<pleia2> okies, meeting time :)
<pleia2> Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom/MeetingAgenda2008Dec3
<pleia2> so, who all is here?
<pleia2> introduce yourselfs! :)
<pleia2> yourselves too
 * PrivateVoid PrivateVoid nods
<PrivateVoid> hello everyone!
<Rocket2DMn> I'm just here to watch (I think)
<spiderbatdad> err
<bodhi_zazen> Hello classsroom :)
<pleia2> hey bodhi_zazen
<bodhi_zazen> The Beginners team in interested in assisting with #ubuntu-classroom :)
<pleia2> we can start out with that
<pleia2> so currently, ubuntu-classroom is mostly a basic project to help teams host courses in irc - we hold sessions here so there is a centralized location, help put folks in touch with resources for promotion
<bodhi_zazen> Sounds awesome
<pleia2> we also intended to do our own general sessions, which is pretty much the same mandate as the beginners education team
<bodhi_zazen> And we can help guide people to IRC (from forums mostly)
<pleia2> (early on when classroom was founded we did our own)
<pleia2> bodhi_zazen: nice :)
<pleia2> so lately we don't have the humanpower to run our own courses, so mostly it's just been a coordination and promotion thing
<bodhi_zazen> We can help coordinate on the forums and we have some members who would like to instruct as well
<pleia2> excellent
<pleia2> Classroom doesn't currently have a forums contingent, and I'm not much of a forums person so I've never pushed it, but it's a great resource
<bodhi_zazen> I am afraid I am stealing PrivateVoid's thunder here, PrivateVoid has done some outstanding footwork
<PrivateVoid> The beginners team has an education focus group - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Education
<PrivateVoid> We would like to run classes that are wiki/forum based with IRC sessions, and IRC based classes, and IRC based Q&A sessions.
<PrivateVoid> The type of 'class' I view as a candidate for the mixed sessions is a programming class. The lesson material and assignments are on the wiki or forum and the 'instructor' is available one night a week in IRC.
<PrivateVoid> We are building a resources component of the wiki which links people to resources, but those resources do not answer all the questions... that is what the Q&A sessions would be for
<bodhi_zazen> Well, the BT is, IMO, not only a resource for beginners on the forums, but I see it as a way of encouraging people to become more involved with the Ubuntu community
<PrivateVoid> I currently have a thread on the forums asking people what they would like to see 'taught'
<bodhi_zazen> so our members may go to Launchpad, MOTU, wiki, and classroot
<bodhi_zazen> *classroom
<Rocket2DMn> +1 bodhi_zazen
<PrivateVoid> and some threads asking for interested instructors
<bodhi_zazen> PrivateVoid, link ?
<PrivateVoid> I think the easiest way to build up, as bodhi_zazen suggested in the BT meeting, is to start with the Q&A sessions
<pleia2> sounds good
<PrivateVoid> bodhi_zazen, they were not stickied... give me a second
<bodhi_zazen> np PrivateVoid, don't worry about it
<PrivateVoid> call for topics -- http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=984986
<pleia2> PrivateVoid: so I'm thinking you get these up and running, and when you want to host one drop a note to ubuntu-classroom list to get put on the wiki schedule (or just add it yourself)
<PrivateVoid> call for instructors - http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=997940
<DarkKnight> hey i m a newbie...and wanted to be on the MOTU team....i read the wiki page...but there are certain things that i didnt understand
<PrivateVoid> pleia2, noted
<DarkKnight> I did file a bug
<bodhi_zazen> DarkKnight, if you wish, come to #ubuntuforums-beginners
<bodhi_zazen> we have members who will guide you if needed
<DarkKnight> bodhi_zazen; newbie in the sense i m newbie to the development process
<bodhi_zazen> As I said, one of our goals is to make the greater Ubuntu community more "accessible"
<bodhi_zazen> I'm sure you could teach us all a few tricks DarkKnight :)
<DarkKnight> bodhi_zazen; wat tricks
<pleia2> so once we have a class scheduled, we'll help promote if you need us
<bodhi_zazen> that would be awesome pleia2
<bodhi_zazen> I have suggested we start small and build ;)
 * pleia2 nods
<PrivateVoid> yes bodhi_zazen the Q&A is an excellent starting point
<bodhi_zazen> Thank you for your time, we will be in touch
<DarkKnight> i didnt get a word of wat u ppl had been saying
<pleia2> DarkKnight: we're having a meeting :)
<pleia2> PrivateVoid: are there any other ways you can think we can help you guys out?
<DarkKnight> pleia2; okkk.....
<PrivateVoid> pleia2, we need instructors... and people willing to write some courses
<DarkKnight> pleia2; ya i need help
<PrivateVoid> FAQs and HowTos are ok, but not really 'courses'
 * pleia2 nods
<PrivateVoid> so the format has to be slightly different
<PrivateVoid> FAQs and How Tos can be preparation material for the Q&A sessions, but the courses would be more 'lesson' based
<pleia2> so the way I see things, is Classroom itself really woud like to get our own courses going again, but if we could delegate that to your team it might be a worthwhile thing
<PrivateVoid> that would be great... but my 'team' is rather small right now...
<PrivateVoid> so it might be best to work in harmony with one another
<pleia2> unfortunately we've already been burnt by working with another team for such things, there was a New Users team a long time ago that died :)
 * PrivateVoid nods
<PrivateVoid> I understand
<DarkKnight> pleia2; so wat r being thought in the classroom...and how r ppl across the world going 2 learn
<PrivateVoid> bodhi_zazen, will whipe me if I fade away and die
<PrivateVoid> so I have no ability to just leave you all hanging
<pleia2> DarkKnight: can you hold off new questions until we finish up this discussion?
<PrivateVoid> DarkKnight, we will be making classes... about Bash Scripting, programming Python, etc... and then we will offer the courses in the IRC channel and via wiki/forum posts
<bodhi_zazen> pleia2, although it is early, I think the BT is getting established and if anything I see growth
<pleia2> DarkKnight: the classroom site is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom
<pleia2> bodhi_zazen: *nod*
<bodhi_zazen> If you have concerns or feedback we would be all ears
<DarkKnight> pleia2; thanq.....ohh plzz don't mind for having interrupted
<DarkKnight> ur discussion
<bodhi_zazen> I think we would add to rather then take over if you will
<pleia2> ok, so maybe you guys start off with the q&a sessions, we promote, and take it from there?
 * pleia2 nods
<bodhi_zazen> We would start small for sure, and build
 * PrivateVoid nods
<pleia2> honestly Classroom has kinda fizzled out these past couple years, it's been tough to get regoing and perhaps what we ultimately *need* is another team helping out
<PrivateVoid> that sounds good pleia2 do you have any instructors... or a good idea on how to recruit them?
<PrivateVoid> that, I think, will be the largest challenge
<pleia2> thus far we've primarily used planet, posts to UWN, and our own connections within the community (ie - nag people who know stuff to do classes)
<PrivateVoid> the forums, the wiki and launchpad all give people, those who seek it, 'exposure' and 'recognition'
<PrivateVoid> perhaps if there was a way to give people that 'recognition' for being an instructor we would get some more people interested
 * pleia2 notes that nagging has been primary tool
<bodhi_zazen> PrivateVoid, do we not have a few interested instructors in the BT ?
<bodhi_zazen> It would be a start
<PrivateVoid> bodhi_zazen, being honest we have people that have expressed an interest... but only one that I am aware of that ran a class
<PrivateVoid> the Q&A sessions would make it easier, I think, to get people to commit to the time
<bodhi_zazen> Well, to be honest, I think they will respond to "leadership" and "structure"
<bodhi_zazen> It is nebulous, being an instructor
<spiderbatdad> most do
<bodhi_zazen> but if you tell them what is needed, give them structure, they will follow
<bodhi_zazen> you are a natural leader
<PrivateVoid> bodhi_zazen, I agree... that is what I am trying to build...
<spiderbatdad> +1
<pleia2> bodhi_zazen: +1
<PrivateVoid> I just enable people to shine
<PrivateVoid> not really any leadership in that...
<bodhi_zazen> yes there is, and that is my line :)
<pleia2> so for classroom stuff, we developed this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom/Guidelines
 * PrivateVoid does not take compliments well... they embarrass him... as much as he appreciates them
 * PrivateVoid reads wiki
<bodhi_zazen> bookmarked pleia2
<PrivateVoid> good structure pleia2
<pleia2> it's a bit rough around the edges
<pleia2> but basic ideas are there
<PrivateVoid> it is good... we can buff the edges
<pleia2> :)
<PrivateVoid> I think writing the wiki ahead of time and adding to it after the class would be a good idea
<PrivateVoid> perhaps a wiki for the main 'subject' and logs of previous classes
<pleia2> PrivateVoid: like for a series on a similar subject?
<PrivateVoid> yes
 * pleia2 nods
<PrivateVoid> I would think certain classes will see many students pass through the 'doors'
<bodhi_zazen> I am going to need to get to my family soon
<bodhi_zazen> pleia2, you can always find us at #ubuntuforums-beginners :)
 * pleia2 recalls :)
<bodhi_zazen> It is a relaxed channel, take care not to click on the links :)
<pleia2> I stopped lurking because people were always welcoming me like I was new
<pleia2> hehe
<PrivateVoid> I hang here... and on many other channels
<pleia2> I knew where to find you guys if I needed ;)
<bodhi_zazen> We like fresh victims
<bodhi_zazen> doh, I mean members
 * PrivateVoid evil grin
<Rocket2DMn> mmmmm blooooood
<pleia2> haha
<pleia2> alas, I dislike forums :)
<pleia2> ok, so since bodhi_zazen has to scoot soon - I'll work up some gathering instructors ideas and post them to the wiki, you guys start working on a couple pepole to start running classes and then nudge me or the classroom list when you're ready to get help for promotion and stuff?
<bodhi_zazen> Well, that is one way we can work together, we are strong on forums, weaker elsewhere
<PrivateVoid> sounds good!!
<bodhi_zazen> +1 pleia2
<pleia2> PrivateVoid: I'd be interested in other thoughst of yours for expanding classes beyond forums/wiki (you had mentioned moodle at some point), but I think that's for a later time
<pleia2> don't want to tackle too much at once
<PrivateVoid> yes.... if we get things rolling...
<PrivateVoid> a app like moodle could really help
<PrivateVoid> I wrote an entire course for School Administrators regarding security in Moodle...
<PrivateVoid> so I have a bit of experience with it... though not an expert
 * pleia2 knows very little about moodle
 * PrivateVoid nods and waves
<dinda> i know about Moodle
<PrivateVoid> thanks for the time on your docket classroom team
<PrivateVoid> I appreciate the opportunity
<PrivateVoid> and hope that I can assist in moving the education of Ubuntu users forward
<pleia2> your enthusiasm is much needed :)
<PrivateVoid> I hope it rubs off...
<PrivateVoid> to be honest... I gave up computer gaming... and Ubuntu is what I am focused on instead
<pleia2> I did the same a while back
<PrivateVoid> Cool...
<PrivateVoid> I was very, very in to Guild Wars...
<PrivateVoid> and World of Warcrack before that
<dinda> can I ask a general question about this channel?
<pleia2> dinda: sure
<dinda> why do so many folks hang out here?  are they waiting for something to happen?  or just like to lurk?
<pleia2> Ubuntu Open Week is held here
<pleia2> I think a lot of people join during that, and lurk :)
<dinda> that's one every 6 months
<pleia2> developers week is also hosted here, which is 6-12 months
<pleia2> I think most folks just lurk and look in when something is going on if it's interesting
<dinda> are there any other regularly scheduled events here?
<pleia2> motu school had regular sessions for a while
<dinda> yeah James_w was very helpful in trying to get those going
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> they were great :)
<pleia2> alas, we don't have much else going on
 * Rocket2DMn returns to his tiny corners of the IRC net
<pleia2> so I scour the ubuntu community for other teams doing classes, and drag them here
 * pleia2 points at PrivateVoid 
<dinda> :)
<pleia2> like beginners team! :)
<PrivateVoid> I will try to build it... I will...
<dinda> we've had some success with our weekly session in the training team
<dinda> but need to add some evening US time sessions
<PrivateVoid> dinda, another team for teaching... cool... we really need to pool our resources
<PrivateVoid> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Education
<PrivateVoid> I am working on getting some stuff going with pleia2
<dinda> getting good session leaders is key
<PrivateVoid> in using the wiki/forums and IRC to hold classes and Q&A sessions
<PrivateVoid> yes, it is...
<dinda> one guy found it really hard to lead an irc session with all the crosstalk in the channel
<PrivateVoid> +m
<PrivateVoid> set the channel to +m
<PrivateVoid> that should cut that down
<pleia2> yeah, we tend to leave +m up to the instructor
<dinda> some topics lend themselves to irc better than others I suppose
<pleia2> the ubuntu women open week presentation I did ended up having to be moderated
<PrivateVoid> I agree dinda I see IRC being used in some courses as a 'help' session that augments class lessons that are forum/wiki based
<PrivateVoid> that have material that is to be learned with assignments
<dinda> good luck, let me know if i can help
<PrivateVoid> dinda, you can help...
<PrivateVoid> how do I contact you?
<dinda> dinda@ubuntu.com  :)
<dinda> like pleia2 I'm not much a forums person either
<PrivateVoid> k
<PrivateVoid> not an issue... I am less a forum person than most of the BT guys
<PrivateVoid> I mostly hang on IRC
<PrivateVoid> and use LP to answer questions
<dinda> ok, gotta go fight with BZR some more
<dinda> night all!
<DasEI> what happened here today ?
#ubuntu-classroom 2008-12-04
<oly562> hello, how can i tell what version of ubuntu im using? whats the cmd, not uname -a, but something like less /etc/release yadda
<oly562> is it in /proc/version?
<oly562> it doesnt say there
<oly562> waits... thanks
<oly562> uname -mrs doesnt either...
#ubuntu-classroom 2008-12-05
<mattycoze> hey is there any reason why i've not been permitted to access #Ubuntu? I get this error message: YOU (mattycoze) have been booted from #Ubuntu by ChanServ (You are not permitted to be on this channel.)
#ubuntu-classroom 2008-12-06
<mib_rjnu2aby> hello
<mib_rjnu2aby> can someone help me
<mib_rjnu2aby> please
#ubuntu-classroom 2008-12-07
<sudvabalis> help me surprise my girlfreind, watch this video on youtube, thanx! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHsitCVMbgE
#ubuntu-classroom 2009-11-30
<jono> hey all
<jono> hmm
<jono> hey amber :)
<jono> amber - you should be able to see this
<jono> test
<jono> just ignore my testing folks :)
<jono> it works :)
<jono> hey
<jono> do you see this amber :)
<jono> hey
<jono> can you see this?
<jono> and this
<jono> :)
<jono> hey all
<FFEMTcJ> hey jono
<jono> FFEMTcJ, hey
<jono> hows things?
<jono> fancy taking part in a screenshot?
<jono> say cheese :)
<FFEMTcJ> That's fine
<FFEMTcJ> lol
<FFEMTcJ> Playing with lernid I'm guessing?
<jono> yes indeed :)
<jono> about to take a screenshot for my blog :)
<FFEMTcJ> Cool.. I actually downloaded it last night
<FFEMTcJ> Can't wait to really get to use it
<jono> :)
<jono> cool, about to write up a blog entry now :)
<FFEMTcJ> Sounds good.. I'll be looking for it.
<jono> :)
<FFEMTcJ> Does it highlight in some way when I said your nick jono?
<jono> not yet
<FFEMTcJ> gotcha
<FFEMTcJ> Well, I'm off to work.. Have a good day!
<jono> and you :)
<Beefcakes> Is there a general computer help channel?
<pleia2> Beefcakes: no, this channel hosts classes on Ubuntu (none on the schedule until Jaunary)
<Beefcakes> I meant, is there one in this irc server? sorry
<d1b> Beefcakes: for what kind of computer ;)
<Beefcakes> Well, a PC?:)
<d1b>  there is #hardware, #ubuntu, #windows etc.
<Beefcakes> thank you.
<d1b> pleia2: awwwh i was hoping about learning about glade / gtk gui foo for python / c
<Beefcakes> i'm also excited to hook up this x-fi 5.1 external sound card I got to my ubuntu machine, i wonder if it'll work
<jono> hey
<jono> hey lernid_test
#ubuntu-classroom 2009-12-01
<jono> lernid_sadas, testing Lernid, eh?
<jono> :)
<maco> hehe
<jono> :)
<jono> I hope this results in patches :)
<maco> or maybe just bugs?
<jono> that would be good too :)
<jono> want to get 0.2 out this week
<maco> thats probably more likely
<jono> and before my new studio gear comes and distracts me :)
<damagednoob> how do you install lernid?
<jono> damagednoob, there is no package yet
<jono> expect a release this week
<damagednoob> so is the ppa not the think to use?
<damagednoob> thing*
<jmarsden> damagednoob: You can only use a PPA for packaged software, so since there is no package yet, no a PPA is not the thing to use to get lernid, by definition :)
<damagednoob> aaah okay
<lernidviewer_dam> that wasn't so hard :P
<damagednoob> okay i'm misunderstanding what you said there jmarsden
<damagednoob> i found the lernid ppa page and followed the instructions
<damagednoob> i installed lernid through synaptic
<damagednoob> i have now what seems to be lernid
<damagednoob> am i wrong?
<jmarsden> damagednoob: Then jono is using a different lernid... he specifically said   <jono> damagednoob, there is no package yet
<jmarsden> And that was just minutes ago...
<jmarsden> I didn't check on the info he provided... maybe I should have.
<damagednoob> okay, i was confused when you said "... no a PPA is not the thing to use to get lernid, ..."
<jmarsden> Well, per jono, it isn't :)
<damagednoob> :P
<jono> damagednoob, jmarsden don't use the PPA, the package is old
<jono> the current Lernid is way better :)
<damagednoob> but then i have to wait :/
<jono> damagednoob, you could always check out the code
<jono> but then you will need to know what dependencies to install
<jono> just wait a few days :)
<damagednoob> is looking at the debian/control file not enough?
<jono> hey
<jono> just testing lernid
<jono> fixed a bug :)
<jono> tedting
<jono> hello
<jono> hi everyone
<jono> I am about to take a screenshot of Lernid
<jono> say cheese!
<FFEMTcJ> more screenshots? lol
<jono> FFEMTcJ, :)
<FFEMTcJ> are you going to include PM functionality in lernid?
<pleia2> seems like that gets into fully-rewriting-an-irc-client territory
<FFEMTcJ> pleia2: i agree.. just was curious if that was a plan
<jono> FFEMTcJ, no plans for that
<FFEMTcJ> cool..
<jono> testing this
<damagednoob> nice, lernid now with notify
<garrythefish> not enough drilling
<garrythefish> that's what's the problem with the lesbos at #ubuntu-women
#ubuntu-classroom 2009-12-02
<stlsaint> anyone?
<djoniso> Enter text here...c'Ã¨ qualcuno ?
<djoniso> deo istallare di nuovo ubuntu
<djoniso> ma non capisco come procedere con le partizioni
<djoniso> sul disco c'Ã¨ xp e ubuntu
<djoniso> ma ubuntu devo istallarlo di nuovo
<djoniso> come faccio ??
<djoniso> someone can help me ?
<djoniso> C'Ã NESASUNOOOOO
<djoniso> OK
#ubuntu-classroom 2009-12-03
<jono> hi
#ubuntu-classroom 2009-12-05
<WeatherGod> greetings from the Bug Squad...
 * WeatherGod waves
<pleia2> hi there WeatherGod
<WeatherGod> we are currently renovating our Bug wiki pages, and we have some class session pages
<pleia2> are you interested in doing some more classes here?
<WeatherGod> and they are very plain looking with the time stamps and such
<WeatherGod> well, I was wondering if you guys have any useful tools for posting the class session in a pretty format
<pleia2> not particularly, the wiki page shows our pretty basic format: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom
<pleia2> the MOTU training page is similar: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Packaging/Training
<WeatherGod> the MOTU page is better
<WeatherGod> this is what ours look like: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/openweekhardy/ReportBugs2
<WeatherGod> and yours are pretty good too
<pleia2> ah, for the logs themselves
<WeatherGod> yeah
<pleia2> another option is linking to the irclogs.ubuntu.com pages
 * pleia2 digs up an example
<pleia2> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/09/18/%23ubuntu-classroom.html
<WeatherGod> hggdh, how does that look to you?
<WeatherGod> and it doesn't require any extra work on our part...
<hggdh> looks better
<WeatherGod> heck, it is probably easier because we don't have to make an actual wiki page
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> lately there have only been one session per day (that example shows two), but if there are multiple you can link to it and say "scroll down to 22:00 timestamp" or somesuchi
<pleia2> -i
<pleia2> and yeah, it's easier on the eyes :)
<hggdh> I am not actually very keen on many different colours, but I like that there are no join/parts
<WeatherGod> pleia2, thank you very much
<pleia2> hggdh: there is also a .txt version
<hggdh> (some people just cannot seen them)
<pleia2> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/09/18/%23ubuntu-classroom.txt
<WeatherGod> and the time stamps are to the right... nice, out of the way
<hggdh> pleia2: yes, but not as easy to read as the other one
<pleia2> hggdh: yeah
<WeatherGod> meh
<hggdh> but -- the html (no matter the colours) are the way to go, methinks. As long as the raw log is also available (so that we can show there was no malicious editing)
<WeatherGod> but, the pretty form has it so that all text starts at the same column... which is great when you have users with different length names
<WeatherGod> hggdh, has that been a concern before?
<WeatherGod> I think the colors are very useful
<hggdh> no, never. But better guarantee it
<WeatherGod> hehe
<WeatherGod> true
<hggdh> I am not against the colours
<hggdh> I just sometimes confuse green and blue hues
<WeatherGod> same here
<WeatherGod> I bet you hate playing Uno, right?
<WeatherGod> :-P
 * pleia2 chuckles
<hggdh> heh. I do not play games, usually. Except for chess
<WeatherGod> good man
<WeatherGod> hggdh, so, what do you think?  Shall we go with the html versions for our pages?
<hggdh> yes, certainly
<hggdh> way to go
<hggdh> and thanks to pleia2 for showing the way
<pleia2> welcome :)
<pleia2> will you be interested in doing some classes in the future?
<hggdh> you who? mesself, or WeatherGod?
<pleia2> anyone on bugsquad :)
<hggdh> for me, yeas, no prob. Being there before, but always on real classrooms
<WeatherGod> I'm relatively new... not sure what I could contribute yet
<pleia2> bugsquad is a nice entry point into contributing, so there are always new folks looking for intro how-tos
<maco> bugsquad mentorship is up to its ears
<pleia2> ah, so we don't want more? hehe
<maco> someone claimed it was new a few weeks ago (pretty sure its been around for years...) and so we've had two mentor requests a day since
<maco> hggdh: ?
<maco> i dont think we have enough mentors to deal with the influx :-/
<pleia2> maco: well that's good news, mostly :)
<WeatherGod> yeah... we just need to get organized
<maco> pleia2: aye
<WeatherGod> I really want to see Lucid go smoothly
 * WeatherGod knocks on wood
<WeatherGod> ok, well, time to get back to the grind
<WeatherGod> thanks pleia2!
<pleia2> welcome, good luck :)
<hggdh> maco: yes, we need more mentors
<hggdh> we did not really expect that many requests
<george-bhc4> hello
#ubuntu-classroom 2010-12-06
<karthick87> any one teaching perl?
<nigelb> karthick87: No classes scheduled for the near future
<karthick87> Oh fine
#ubuntu-classroom 2010-12-07
<Huawei> hello
<leoquant> Good afternoon Huawei
<leoquant> <reboot>
<Huawei> when i create a deb package, how do i add it to one of the ubuntu repos so that people can download it using apt ?
<leoquant> Hi Huawei this is not a support channel: see topic. Try: #ubuntu-dev
<Huawei> thank you, leoquant:)
<leoquant> Lots od success
<leoquant> f
<andrewmiller57> hey I got my IRC working! sweet! :)
<zkriesse> hallo AndrewMC
<zkriesse> I mean andrewmiller57
<andrewmiller57> howdy, im looknig forward to learning here
#ubuntu-classroom 2010-12-08
<c2tarun> hi friends. i just received a mail with subject "Ubuntu-classroom Digest, Vol 27, Issue 1" can anyone please tell me what is this??
<UndiFineD> it is a collection of all emails form the last XXX time
<kaushal> hi
<kaushal> whats the next event here ?
<nhandler> kaushal: http://is.gd/8rtIi
#ubuntu-classroom 2010-12-10
<kaushal> hi
<kaushal> Can i look back at the events or training for learning purpose ?
<kaushal> For example learning bash shell or perl or python ?
<kaushal> checking in again for the query ?
<johnny_> my first xchat and nobody is chatting
<johnny_> i love my ubuntu anyone else???
<johnny_> cool i have this chat box all to myself!!!!!!!!!
<johnny_> shhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<johnny_> I am trying to think of something brilliant to say
<johnny_> nope
<johnny_> i got nothing
<johnny_> THIS SUX
<udienz> johnny_: hi
<johnny_> hey there is life
<johnny_> im new to all this hope im not annoying
<johnny_> do you know any good ubuntu rooms that are informative???
<udienz> johnny_: #ubuntu-beginners is a good place, this room only for training
<johnny_> thanx
<udienz> no problem, just ask to us
<UndiFineD> hey guys this room is not meant for chatting  .. if you are in #ubuntu-beginners-team <- that is an offtopic channel, #ubuntu-beginners is for trouble
<udienz> UndiFineD: hi.. he is at #ubuntu-beginners now
<Messanger>  world leaders setting you all up right now to get microchipped by RFID microchips with identity/healthcare/credit information into their new world order why they are folding the economy , their solution to the problem they are causing is the RFID microchip  http://www.scribd.com/doc/44997148/The-Mark-of-the-Beast    Romans 10:13 all who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
#ubuntu-classroom 2010-12-11
<c2tarun> there bugSquad meeting on 14 Dec 17:00 UTC and there is a Bug triaging session on #ubuntu-classroom on 14 Dec 17:00 UTC. :| anyone noticed this clash?
<pleia2> the bugsquad triaging session needed to be moved anyway (still looking for a revised time with the instructor)
<pleia2> yep, confirmed, moved to the 15th :)
<nigelb> I love it when pleia2's on a roll ;)
<pleia2> I'm finally taking some weekends this month "off" from going out every day, aside from typical errands the only plans I have this weekend are a single lug meeting :)
<nigelb> :)
#ubuntu-classroom 2011-12-08
<naresh_> hey anyone cn u plz tell me how do i contribute to open source ????????
#ubuntu-classroom 2014-12-05
<_2_no> what
<_2_no> by
<_2_no> sorry:'(
<_2_no> :D
#ubuntu-classroom 2014-12-06
<Igor> Hallo, spricht jemand deutsch?
<Igor> Hallo in der Hoffnung das jemand Deutsch versteht.
<Igor> Wie kann man den recoverymodus reparieren im Sinne des recoverymodus?
