#launchpad-yellow 2011-05-23
<gary_poster> danilos, ah, I think I just understood why you said those ec2 test errors were not spurious--the server branch hadn't successfully landed yet, right, so you had to fix that in the "parent" branch?
<danilos> gary_poster, that's right
<danilos> gary_poster, sorry if I put it so that it confused you :)
<danilos> (and the same for the above sentence ;)
<gary_poster> Cool, thanks.  heh, np
<bac> hi gary_poster -- i'm not feeling well and have a dr appt at 11:15.  i'm going to take at least the morning off
<gary_poster> bac, understood, and thanks for the heads up.  hope you feel better soon.
<bac> gary_poster: thanks.  i'll be on the call.
<gary_poster> oh, ok
<gary_poster> bac, benji, danilos, gmb, please take a look at the cards in Quick Jobs: Tasks.  I will delete all of them except "get rid of feature flags" (which ought to be in progress by benji, yeah?) unless told otherwise
<gmb> BURN THEM.
<gmb> (I mean, fine by me - ther's nothing there that worries me overmuch)
<gary_poster> cool :-)
 * benji appears from nowhere in a cloud of smoke.
<gary_poster> heh
<gary_poster> bac benji danilos gmb, to state the probably obvious, call in less than 2 minutes.  To state the less obvious but not particularly important to anyone else, I need to go get my headset
<gary_poster> bac benji danilos gmb, deryck and sinzui were supposed to be my chr guides, but they are not around.  I'm updating https://dev.launchpad.net/MaintenanceRotationSchedule with our details and doing as much as possible about it now.  That page has links to describe everything we are supposed to be doing.
<gary_poster> We can talk about how to divide it up once I have my head around it more, or I'll describe a "what we'll do today, until we renegotiate tomorrow" or something
<gmb> Ok.
<benji> k
<danilos> gary_poster, cool, thanks; one of the things we might do if we want team-wide CHR is set help contact to "yellow" and set our IRC clients to highlight that
<gary_poster> danilos, was thinking the same thing.  bac, benji gmb, let's do it.
<danilos> gary_poster, oh, btw, Francis upped https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/783595 to Critical, how do we deal with it?
<_mup_> Bug #783595: JS controls for bug subscription are hard to use with screen readers <regression> <story-better-bug-notification> <Launchpad itself:Triaged by yellow> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/783595 >
<gary_poster> danilos, just another critical bug.  is that what you mean?
<gary_poster> or do you mean, how do we fix it>?
<danilos> gary_poster, the former, i.e. do we focus on that?
<gary_poster> danilos, no
<gary_poster> it's just one among many
<danilos> gary_poster, ok, fair enough, thanks
<gary_poster> gmb, are your working hours 0800-1700 UTC right now?  and danilos, you are 0700-1600UTC?  and benji and bac, we are 1200-2100, unless you tell me otherwise
<gmb> gary_poster: That's correct.
<gary_poster> thanks
<danilos> gary_poster, more like 0700-1530 UTC, but yes
<gary_poster> ack danilos, will adjust
<benji> gary_poster: yeah, even though I'm in central time zone, I intended on keeping the same absolute (UTC) schedule
<gary_poster> ok cool benji.  I'm fine with a temp change too fwiw
<benji> gary_poster: thanks, I figured you would be, but 1) this is simpler and 2) my body clock will wake me up anyway so I might as well go with it ;)
<gary_poster> cool :-)
<gary_poster> danilos, I have a bug to triage uniquely suited to you, within the yellow squad :-) : https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/785805
 * gmb discovers the problem of having his client highlight on "yellow"
<gary_poster> I marked it incomplete and was about to ask for English, when I realized we could do better
<gary_poster> ah yes
 * benji hacks on perl to make "yellow" beep.
<gmb> STOP IT.
<benji> heh
<gary_poster> what, say yellow?
<gary_poster> :-P
<gmb> Oh, my sides.
<gmb> :D
<danilos> heh, it's all yellow in my xchat now!
<gary_poster> heh
<gmb> :)
<danilos> gary_poster, one thing we might not have taken into consideration: what about the other team CHR, they might want to do it as well :)
<gary_poster> danilos, we swap weeks
<danilos> ah, ok
<gary_poster> this is our week
<danilos> sounds good, thanks
<gary_poster> np
<gary_poster> danilos, I triaged it with Google translate :-P
<gary_poster> feel free to change it as you will
<gary_poster> OK, for anyone who wants to know, here are my notes from my conversation with deryck
<gary_poster>  * Consider setting up beep on message for #launchpad rather than using the "yellow" beep
<gary_poster>  * Consider setting up two or three hour daily shifts for monitoring IRC
<gary_poster>  * Everyone should choose an hour per day for running down the action lists @ https://dev.launchpad.net/MaintenanceRotationSchedule
<gary_poster>  * When triaging critical bugs, they are either security, or you should add one of these three tags: timeout, oops, regression. (Make sure you review https://dev.launchpad.net/BugTriage btw)
<gary_poster>  * If a bug is not clearly critical (which is usually easy to determine), default the triage to low unless you are pretty sure that it is important.
<gary_poster> We can set that up tomorrow
<gary_poster> Or discuss it or whatever
 * benji drowns in beeps as he realizes that his beep-on-yellow perl script also matches #launchpad-yellow.
<benji> gary_poster: by "beep on message for #launchpad" do you mean that every message in #launchpad would cause a beep?
<gary_poster> benji, right
<benji> that seems a little... agressive :)
<gary_poster> deryck said it wasn't very heavy channel
<gary_poster> it also may have been in line with his "two or three hour daily shifts for monitoring IRC"
<benji> oh, maybe just for our prescribed periods of paying attention?
<gary_poster> right
<benji> that makes sense
<benji> btw, if anyone needs to test their beep-o-trons you can go to #test and do "#say this is a yellow test" and the bot will echo you
<gary_poster> deryck is working on the project review list now, btw, so we don't need to do that until, say, tomorrow
<gary_poster> danilos, is reviewing the translations queue as involved as https://wiki.canonical.com/Launchpad/Translations/ImportQueueReview suggests?  There are a lot of things to check, and a lot of different options.  I personally would love some hand-holding through this.  Would you be willing to do this for us tomorrow, or do you have another suggestion?
<danilos> gary_poster, I have a different suggestion :) I file and fix a bug that allows project maintainers to self-review translations as part of my translations hand-off objective
<danilos> (or translations "hands-off!" objective :)
<gary_poster> heh
<gary_poster> danilos, sure, +1
<danilos> gary_poster, fwiw, that was one of the first things I wanted to do, and in the meantime, you can perhaps relay to me for all the translation imports stuff
<gary_poster> ok, thank you danilos, that would be great
<benji> gary_poster: do you know the scenarios in which a bug won't have at least one bug task?
<gary_poster> benji, no
<benji> gary_poster: thanks; some how our tests do it; I /think/ I have a sane work-around.
#launchpad-yellow 2011-05-24
<danilos> grepping for "subscribers" doesn't work that well when a class uses "subcriber" in the name instead :)
<gary_poster> danilos, I approved your PDR goals
<danilos> gary_poster, cool, thanks, is there any action required on my part?
<danilos> I guess I'll just go and check
<gary_poster> danilos, yeah, I think there is, but could be wrong
<danilos> gary_poster, yep, I needed to counter-sign it (I added a comment that "I agree with your agreement with my objectives", for clarification ;))
<gary_poster> lol, thank you so much
<danilos> gary_poster, btw, I have one question for the "other subscribers" list: for the directly subscribed persons/teams, do we check their mute status as well?
<danilos> gary_poster, or is that assumed to be appropriately set with API return values?
<gary_poster> danilos, they are currently set via API.  I'm happy with you leaving that as is, or adjusting it to the pipeline approach.  I'd be tempted to put off the pipeline approach to the end, in case it is unpleasant (with many pieces of code needing to be changed) but perhaps that is unnecessarily pessimistic
<gary_poster> bac (are you feeling better?) benji danilos gmb, kanban now, call in less than 3
<gary_poster> ish
<gary_poster> :-P
<danilos> gary_poster, right, sounds good enough for me
<gary_poster> cool thanks danilos
<bac> gary_poster: yes-ish
<gary_poster> bac, :-) ok, well glad you are better
<gary_poster> #launchpad no longer has a /topic
<bac> i see a topic
<bac> are using linkinus?  it has been screwy for me wrt topics
<gary_poster> yeah, ok
<gary_poster> Brad Friday, Benji Monday, Danilo Wednesday, Graham Tuesday, Gary Thursday
<gary_poster> Gary will adjust IRC resp on wiki
<gary_poster> Danilo/Graham: something Benji 3-4: Brad 4-5: Gary 11-12
<gary_poster> Launchpad Translators Group for Translation questions
<danilos> gary_poster, that's a bit too broad, so to simplify, punt it to me and I'll reassign appropriately
<gary_poster> Launchpad Translation Coordinators does that (David Planella)
<bac> gary_poster: added sick leave to canonicaladmin
<gary_poster> thanks bac, will go approve
<gary_poster> approve
<gary_poster> d
<benji> gary_poster, a drive by: the more I think about it the more I wonder if we should try using an asynchronous transport for the services balkanization (and since we already have rabbitmq running it would be a good place to start)
<gary_poster> benji, poolie said something similar, but I don't yet understand how async helps for building a page.  ISTM you want results ASAP, and you don't want the overhead of async (rabbitMQ is lightweight compared to, say, zc.async, but heavyweight compared to not having async around at all, or zeroMQ would not have arisen AFAIK),
<gary_poster> and in fact async doesn't buy you anything (AFAIK) that simple threaded requests to the publishers doesn't provide.  Is there a quick way to explain what you mean?
<danilos> haha, "balkanization" :) I'm rather sad that has become a "proper" word :/
<gary_poster> :-) :-/
<benji> I'm envisioning a scatter-gather type situation.  Simple example: say there are parts of the page we can do without knowing who the user is and parts that we have to know, at the start of a request we could fire off one or more async requests to render the parts of the page that don't need user data, then fire off a synchronous (or async with a subscription to the response, or whatever) request to look up the user from their 
<danilos> gary_poster, as for async stuff, I am kinda with benji: there is stuff we know we can't do in whatever the time might be allotted for page rendering
<benji> danilos: something you should know by now, just because I use it doens't mean it's proper ;)
<danilos> gary_poster, and I imagine more things that might come up in the future, where we'd want to offer live status updates
<danilos> benji, heh, actually, I've seen it used on BBC's web site, and defined in dictionaries, but never before seen anyone use it in a real non-political statement
<gary_poster> benji: maybe.  The same as you describe could be handled with other approaches, like the one I described, with lighter weight.  Since we have to write integration for rabbitMQ and we are talking about simple thread use (the sort that Twisted can provide with deferred abstraction, even) for my alternate approach, I am not convinced it is a win.  Maybe I'm wrong.
<gary_poster> For what danilos says, with stuff we know we can't do in the time allotted for page rendering, sure, but that's a different story.  A big part of instituting a constrained time for page rendering is to give a quick response time to the user.  If you need to start something up separately, great, but you'll have to deliver it separately (e.g. with AJAX).  I'm a big fan of async for things like that.
<gary_poster> In general, though, I'm interested in JS/AJAX for page assembly
<benji> gary_poster: can you quickly summarize the approach you described?
<benji> I may have confused things by introducing page assembly.  My understanding of Robert's intention is to break LP up into "services" that can be deployed independently.
<gary_poster> ah ok
<gary_poster> I'm in favor of rabbit MQ as being one of the tools we use for that purpose
<gary_poster> But page assembly itself on the server is less convincing to me as a specific time when RabbitMQ/async is a good solution
<gary_poster> summary:
<benji> right, pretend my example was about API calls to fetch data, not page fragments
<gary_poster> If we are not waiting to render a page until we get that data back, then I am +1 on async/RabbitMQ without further discussion
<gary_poster> Let's say this is a Twisted app assembling the services.  A request comes in.  You immediately make threaded calls that talk to services to get pre-auth replies.  Then you do a call to become authenticated; when that is done, you make more threaded calls to get post-auth replies.  When all services have returned, or something has timed out, we assemble the page and send it back.
<gary_poster> You could even do interesting things like "the reply isn't back yet; we'll stick in an AJAX thing to load this part of the page after the browser got it, using the results we've been working on already but that aren't ready yet"
<gary_poster> You could use RabbitMQ for something like that, but it is heavyweight...*unless* you need coordinated transactionality.
<gary_poster> Which is another thing I haven't seen discussed, actually.
<benji> I'd worry about the "threaded" bit (and why would you need threads with Twisted?).
<benji> otherwise that sounds like what I had in mind
<gary_poster> (threads are reasonable tools if used in simple ways, and Twisted supplies the tools to use them.)  But yeah, actually for network activity, you wouldn't need them with Twisted. You'd only need it if you needed to talk to something like a DB call (like a graph DB) that started up a separate process.  So yeah, when you rip out the threads, that's even lighter weight.
<benji> so, I'll mention one more thing and stop :) if we have a service for, say, managing bug notifications then we should build things so we can run several and load-balance/fail-over between them;  that would be a good argument for using HTTP as the transport as we already have/know the tools to do that; plus we could easily add caching
<gary_poster> Unless I misunderstand :-P I think I agree completely.  I think that's the same kind of thinking that makes me want us to use REST-style communications.  Does that sound like I'm on the right track?
<benji> it does; I guess I should go read Robert's write up of this now that I've decided how we should implement it all ;)
<gary_poster> :-)
<gary_poster> ...and it's my CHR time!
<bac> gmb: is my re-use of bug 777789 for the branch you just reviewed going to cause deployment problems?  the first 'qa-bad' branch and its rollback haven't landed yet.  hmmm.
<_mup_> Bug #777789: "Other subscriptions" description of direct team subscription makes no sense <qa-bad> <story-better-bug-notification> <Launchpad itself:Fix Committed by bac> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/777789 >
<bac> s/landed/been deployed
<gmb> bac: I don't know. I don't *think* so, but I usually find it better to file another bug and let qa-tagger track things there.
<gmb> Because I've seen the qa-tagger do odd things to re-used bugs in the past.
<bac> yeah, hindsight
<bac> i guess i'll find out...
<gmb> :)
 * gary_poster stops doing CHR, 1:35 later
<gary_poster> I left a few projects for the next person
<gary_poster> Hopefully this will go faster once we all get in the rhythm :-)
<gary_poster> ...library/lunch...
 * benji starts CHRapalooza
 * benji realizes he's an hour early bug goes ahead anyway.
<bac> benji: why do you say you're an hour early?  i thought you had 3pm and i had 4pm
<benji> bac: oh, you're right, I did my UTC math wrong
<benji> Does anyone know if it's possible to delete a project?  I have a question in which a user asks that their recently created project be deleted.  The admin page lets me deactivate it.
<benji> I assume that since LP tells me that the person that asked the question and the person that registered the project are the same, that it's safe to fulfill the request (i.e., there's no impersonation going on).
<gary_poster> benji, yeah, delete request from user -> deactivate for us
<gary_poster> and yes, I trust LP in that kind of way too
<benji> gary_poster: thanks!
<gary_poster> np
<benji> done with CHR; other than having no idea what a couple of the ~registry tasks were talking about, that wasn't too bad
<gary_poster> yeah, I had no idea what the ~registry was either :-P
<gary_poster> I suppose I should fix that
<gary_poster> I'll see if flacoste knows, since I'm about to talk to him anyway
<gary_poster> oh.  you probably saw this.  This explains most or all of it to me
<gary_poster> https://dev.launchpad.net/Registry/RegistryReview
<benji> gary_poster: well, that page is part of the problem: the "Decline invitations to join a team." bit makes no sense; copy paste error perhaps?  and the "Remove owned teams" section asking me to "investigate those you do not understand" isn't very helpful
<benji> gary_poster: should we use bug heat to guide us in choosing bugs to work on?  If so, I should look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/740208
<gary_poster> benji, sorry on call since 4 will ping when off
<benji> sure
<gary_poster> benji, hi, reading...yeah, Francis said that the page maybe has had too many cooks lately.  I'm supposed to work with Curtis to make sure that we understand it.  It takes Curtis 15 min/day to do that work.  He's an expert, so if it takes us 45 minutes, aggregated across all of us, over the day, that's probably not too bad, but we do all need to understand it.
<gary_poster> benji: use bug heat: naah
<gary_poster> I mean, if you want to
<gary_poster> but the main goal should be speed
<gary_poster> Secondary goal should be learning
<gary_poster> Additional goals for you to determine :-)
<gary_poster> but that bug would certainly be a nice one to fix, sure :-)
<bac> hi benji -- did you do the 'project review' part?  i'm just asking b/c i want to make sure i'm not missing anything.  there are several projects there that should've been approved that pre-dated your shift.
<benji> bac: I did, but it ended up being a no op (as far as I can tell) because all the projects had whiteboard entries that said things like "emailed them about our license policy"
<bac> benji: yeah, but i saw about 5-6 that had GPL licenses that needed to be marked as approved
<benji> I admit that I don't have a good feeling about my understanding of that page though
<bac> benji: just want to ensure we're on the same card
<bac> so, as it is now, there are only projects with "I don't know"
<benji> I assumed (bad me) that the page was in reverse chronological order, so if the top few were handled, then they all must be
<bac> benji: no, it is oldest at top.  :(
<benji> pfft, that's helpful
<bac> hey at least it is all ajaxy now
<benji> sounds like we need a bug about that with the "chr" tag
<bac> much easier to deal with
 * bac eods.  bye.
<gary_poster> bye
#launchpad-yellow 2011-05-25
<danilos> gmb, hi, fwiw, I haven't really done much checklist CHR going through entire staging-is-not-updating dance with people
<gmb> danilos: Okay. I'll go through the checklist now, in that case.
<danilos> gmb, thanks
<gmb> danilos: Where is this fabled checklist? All I can find is the Answer Contact stuff on the wiki and the old CHR FAQ.
<danilos> MaintenanceRotationSchedule on dev.l.n, included in email from Gary
<gmb> danilos: Or hey,  I could actually look at my fricking email. Jeez.
<gmb> Sorry. Not with it this morning.
<gmb> Right, checklist taken care of.
<danilos> gmb, heh, sorry about it, I was trying to deal with a million things myself
<gmb> danilos: No worries. Didn't take all that long except for the project review stuff, and that's only because there's no way to filter out project where we're waiting on the owners to get back to us.
 * gmb lunches
<gary_poster> danilos, hey.  Do you think I need to move the style from style.css to 3.0 css?  New stuff has gone into style.css too AFAIK.  I thought the distinction was that pillar-specific stuff went into style.css and LP-wide stuff went into 3.0, but I see now that this is not really the case: 3.0 has application stuff at the bottom, though it complains about it.
<danilos> gary_poster, hi, I might be wrong then, I thought it was all to go into style-3.0.css
<gary_poster> FWIW, if you don't think so, my default position will be to land as is.  I think the CSS story is not fully worked out
<danilos> gary_poster, at least originally I thought sinzui wanted it all clean and in 3.0 for new stuff
<danilos> gary_poster, oh, definitely land as-is
<gary_poster> (for instance, the stuff at the bottom of 3.0 saying we should use application specific files, but then every pillar we have, or just about, including registry, has something there)
<gary_poster> ok cool thanks :-)
<danilos> gary_poster, we should probably just come up with a clean per-app CSS story anyway
<gary_poster> yeah
<gary_poster> if we have that, then it is clear
<gary_poster> heh, except for the fact that pillars touch on other pillars, especially registry :-P
<danilos> yeah, it always gets murky, but we can always include extra CSS where needed in the template
<gary_poster> so putting it all in a global file isn't particularly crazy in that case...
<gary_poster> yeah
<danilos> also, splitting it for development and combining it for users is never a bad idea either :)
<gary_poster> yeah, that too
<gary_poster> oops
<gary_poster> bac benji danilos gmb: kanban now, call RSN
<gmb> k
<gmb> gary_poster: Would you have any objection to me taking the first week of August as leave, then, given that we don't actually have anything other than a vague timeframe for a sprint?
<gary_poster> gmb, not at all
<gmb> gary_poster: Excellent. I'll submit the request to CA now, before anything changes :)
<gary_poster> good plan :-)
<gmb> gary_poster: Done.
<gary_poster> gmb, approved
<gmb> Thanks
<gary_poster> running to dr; back in a bit over an hour
 * danilos -> out
 * gmb -> out
 * gary_poster is spoiled by not having to deal with TAL + JS
<gary_poster> TAL + JS is so much less nice
<gary_poster> or...
<gary_poster> trying to build the non-JS and JS stories simultaneously is what I really mean
<gary_poster> JS only is much nicer
<benji> yep; I've been surprised by how non-painful building HTML with YUI has been
 * benji embarks on CHR.
<benji> Day 2: the foriegn terrain seems less hostile as we set out today, but who knows what fierce creatures we will encounter.
<benji> bac: you know things about commercial accounts, right?  There is an activation request in the commercial support RT and from my reading of https://wiki.canonical.com/Launchpad/UserRequestsCheatSheet I should just tell mrevell about it
<benji> ...but that seems sort of silly, why would we monitor that RT if he's the one that will be doing things.
<bac> benji: i don't know
<bac> is that the one that was there yesterday?  that one he seemed to have claimed
<benji> I'll ask him then.  Thanks anyway.
<benji> nope, this one was filed right at an hour ago
<bac> know, i mean "i don't know why we monitor it".  we really don't want the whole team mucking with project set up
<bac> s/know/no
<benji> oh, but he's probably AFK; I'll send him an email
<benji> ah
<bac> benji: can i ask you about credentials and lplib?
<bac> i've got a system-wide credential for my machine to staging
<benji> I live for such moments.
<bac> i'm trying to use a product that grabs that set of credentials even though the SERVICE_ROOT is for production, not staging
<bac> so, it is directing the requests to staging
<bac> does that make sense?
<benji> the words make sense, the behavior does not
<bac> the second part of my question, is how do i kill existing credentials?  i looked in seahorse but don't see them
<benji> they should be shown in seahorse; they may not jump out at you though.  Let me see if I can give you a hint.
<benji> it is probably listed as "network password" if you double-click on it and look at the various tabs that come up you should be able to verify that it's the one you want
 * bac looks
<bac> benji: so i found my keys in seahorse but they were only for production.  so i'm not sure why this lplib app is trying to connect to staging even thought the credentials and the SERVICE_ROOT are for production.  odd.
<bac> benji: did you email mrevell about the RT situation?  i hope he'll address it generally.
<benji> yep
<gmb> gary_poster: Around?
<gary_poster> gmb, hi, yes
<gmb> gary_poster: Hi. Any chance we can bring our call forward by 30 minutes tomorrow or postpone it until Friday? I need to leave at about 13:45UTC tomorrow for an appointment.
<gary_poster> gmb, either is fine.  I'm inclined to 30 minutes earlier, but if you could simply move the appointment on Google calendar to the time you'd prefer then it should work for me
<gmb> gary_poster: Ok. 30 minutes earlier works fine for me. I'll update the calendar.
<gmb> Thanks
<gary_poster> cool thanks
<bac> benji: found the problem.  it is an error in the app.
<benji> good... I guess :)
<benji> is it an error that others are likely to have?  is there something we can do to make that mistake less likely?
<bac> benji: i'm not sure if lplib moved out from under this code or if it was never correct
<bac> the problem is the constructor for a Launchpad object has three required params and several optional.  they passed some of the optional params in the wrong position, so the service root was not getting set and using staging, the default
<bac> so, no, i don't think it is a general problem *unless* the constructor was changed to add those extra required params
<bac> which would be unfortunate
<benji> bac: there have been some changes there, but that doesn't sound like anything I remember...oh!  I do remember something.  I /think/ the Launchpad constructor was never meant to be a public API.
<benji> I also have to go now.  I'll dig into this a little more tomorrow.
<bac> thanks.  i'll look into it in the morning
#launchpad-yellow 2011-05-26
<gary_poster> benji has no power, so you know
<gary_poster> and hi :-)
<gary_poster> bac danilos gmb: hi.  will call in just a min
<danilos> hi, ack
<danilos> gary_poster, https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/772763/comments/8
<_mup_> Bug #772763: Unmuting a bug's notifications should restore your previous direct subscription <qa-ok> <story-better-bug-notification> <Launchpad itself:Fix Committed by danilo> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/772763 >
<gmb> gary_poster: Are we still okay to have our call nowabouts?
<gary_poster> gmb, yes was just going to ping.  can start now, or wait a few more seconds for the official top of the hour. :-)
<gmb> gary_poster: I'm ready when you are.
<gary_poster> danilos, gmb and I just had shortest call evar.  You can try to break his speed record anytime now :-)
<gmb> Heh.
<danilos> gary_poster, whoa, I haven't seen the ping, but I am willing to give it a go :)
<danilos> (didn't expect it to be *that* short :)
<gary_poster> :-)
<gary_poster> ok danilos, on your mark, get set, ...
<bac> hi gary_poster - there has been more commentary on bug 750984 from lifeless and mbp
<_mup_> Bug #750984: 401 "this nonce has been used already" error from api <api> <oops> <Launchpad itself:Triaged by bac> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/750984 >
 * gary_poster looks
<bac> gary_poster: lifeless' take now is that a bad nonce should not generate an oops
<bac> and we can investigate if we have a server problem later as a lower priority bug
<gary_poster> bac, run with it :-)  If you have made progress on the lower priority bug, then I'm ok with you pursuing that too, under separate cover, but otherwise, +1 on what Robert suggests
<bac> gary_poster: so my question is this, the OOPS is generated b/c we raise Unauthorized
<bac> gary_poster: in get_principal...so how would you recommend erroring out without OOPSing?
<gary_poster> bac, the webservice has a mechanism to say "don't oops on this, and do return this status and this message."  I'm not sure what it is off-hand, and I wish benji were on-line.  Let me see if I can find it...
<bac> ah, nice
<gary_poster> bac, maybe "from lazr.restful.declarations import webservice_error"...looking
<gary_poster> or even create_webservice_error_view
<bac> gary_poster: cool, i see usage in test_errorlog.py
<bac> thanks for the pointer
<gary_poster> (no that last one is testing)
<gary_poster> cool, bac.  Lemme know if it doesn't seem to suit and I'll search more
 * gary_poster has chr time!
<gary_poster> gmb, danilos, either I am doing too much work for feedback/commercial on RT, or you are not doing enough.  :-P I'm deleting spam tickets from more than 15 hours ago
<benji> ...and we're back.
<bac> gary_poster skype?
<gary_poster> bac, yes, assuming Skype stops crashing for me...yeah looks ok.
 * benji opens the flap to his tent and squints in the sub-saharan sun.
<benji> CHR day 3: After nearly being eaten by a mailing list earlier I began my daily tour.
<bac> benji: did you hear back from matthew re: RT enquiries?
<benji> bac: nothing yet
<gary_poster> benji, hiya.  Glad you avoided the ravenous mailing list.  I'm ready for Skype whenever you are
#launchpad-yellow 2011-05-27
<gary_poster> danilos, hey.  You around?  I'm wondering what to do about the whole setup-the-portlets dance, with the custom events that eventually result in a subscriber that calls setup_subscription_link_handlers.  My plan is to touch that as little as possible, and just rip out the self-subscription bits.
<gary_poster> In particular, in setup_subscription_link_handlers I'm going to delete the block that begins with
<gary_poster>     if (subscription.is_node()) {
<gary_poster>         subscription.get('link').on('click', function(e) {
<gary_poster> as well as the call to "setup_mute_link_handlers".  Does this work for you?
<danilos> gary_poster, you can feel pretty free to scrap it all out
<danilos> gary_poster, I am moving relevant stuff to subscribers_list.js which I conveniently started a few weeks back :)
<gary_poster> :-)
<gary_poster> I am currently moving my relevant stuff to a separate file that is currently in the namespace lp.bugs.bugtask_index.portlets.subscription
<gary_poster> That may mean that lp.bugs.bugtask_index.portlets is empty then...
<danilos> gary_poster, cool, sounds good a nicely encapsulated
<danilos> gary_poster, yeah, we may want to scrap it when we are done with it
<gary_poster> yeah
<danilos> gary_poster, which is perfectly fine by me!
<gary_poster> :-) me too
<gary_poster> ok, I'll leave my namespace as is for the moment then
<gary_poster> it should be easy enough to change that stuff around at the end
<gary_poster> We may have a weird conflict situation
<danilos> yeah, but I don't think we'll have to worry about that too much
<gary_poster> for me, the way I see it now, lp.bugs.bugtask_index.portlets will have all of the stuff that you are cleaning up, but none of mine
<gary_poster> and reverse for you
<gary_poster> OK I'll try to touch that file as little as possible
<gary_poster> hopefully it will all work out :-)
<gary_poster> bac benji danilos gmb kanban now call in 3
<danilos> gary_poster, I think we'll be good, but let's see
<gary_poster> cool
<gmb> ok
<bac> gary_poster: are you aware bug 186660 is marked Low and none of the bugs it would close are critical?  is it still something we should pursue now?
<_mup_> Bug #186660: Launchpad shouldn't store wiki names <lp-registry> <users> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/186660 >
<gary_poster> bac, I was not.  Could you follow up with sinzui?  I was merely spouting back what he said.
<bac> gary_poster: ok
<bac> gary_poster: if sinzui agrees it is a Low what would you like to do?
<gary_poster> bac, if none of them are critical but it sounds pretty quick to do and he convinces you to tackle it anyway, that's fine.  If none of them are critical and you want to go find a critical bug, that's fine too.
<bac> ok
<bac> gary_poster: it would probably best be handled in two passes.  one to remove the UI and another later to remove the db parts
<gary_poster> makes sense
<benji> gary_poster: so... pylkk doesn't actually have any useful contents, am I right?
<gary_poster> benji, is that the isd one or the flacoste one?
<benji> gary_poster: flacoste
<gary_poster> benji, correct
<benji> I didn't get the memo.
<gary_poster> sorry for not being clear :-)
<gary_poster> ...chr...
<gary_poster> fastest chr this week!
<benji> I must be doing something wrong.  My launchpadlib script is painfully slow.
<gmb> I like this pick-stuff-up-and-fix-it approach.
<bac> another farewell message on warthogs from someone i've never heard of.  :(
<gary_poster> crap.  I set up a subscription to add a X-Launchpad-Subscription header of 'story-better-bug-notification' for bugs from ye olde feature and didn't get the header or the message in my first email from it (a bug to which I'm directly subscribed as well). :-/
<benji> bac: I don't know if it makes it better or worse, but apparently they were only here for three months
 * gary_poster wonders how safe it is to assume that someone named "Pippi" is female.
<bac> benji: wanna swap CHR today?  your 3pm for my 4pm?
<benji> bac: sure
<bac> benji: i thought you might!  :)
<benji> heh
<bac> yowzer, lightning hitting close...
 * gary_poster lunching/going to see elementary school show
<gmb> gary_poster: I'm supposed to have a national holiday on Monday (and it's already booked in CanonicalAdmin) but I was thinking of working it... do I need to do anything other than tell you that I'm working it?
<gary_poster> gmb, naah.  The whole national holiday/swap day thing is not terribly well defined AFAIK anyway--flacoste wants me to do what you have done, in fact.  So anyway, that's fine, just remember so you can remind me when you want to swap.
<gmb> Sure thing.
<gmb> Thanks :)
<gary_poster> np :-)
<bac> argh, i just messed up someone's code import and now it has gone missing
<bac> gary_poster: btw, i'm not working monday - memorial day you know
<gary_poster> bac, ack, thanks.  I had forgotten. :-P
<bac> gary_poster: how do you delete spam items from RT-feedback?
<bac> benji: ^^ ??
<benji> bac: I just changed them do "deleted"
<bac> hmm, i don't see that
<bac> ah, it is in the dropdown but not in the actions
<bac> thanks
<gary_poster> yeah that's what I do too
<bac> hey gary_poster, how does one update packages (e.g. bzr-hg) in lp-sourcedeps/sourcecode?
<gary_poster> bac, there's a file.  looking for details...
<bac> your fine document explains how to do those managed by buildout but i don't see docs on the other
<bac> gary_poster: join me and diogo in #launchpad?
<bac> benji: i got all of the way through the list of maintenance items.  should be easy going
<benji> cool, thanks
<gary_poster> benji, you taking Monday off too?  I think I will (rather than saving it as a swap)
<benji> gary_poster: yep
<gary_poster> cool
<benji> gary_poster: I'm disappointed with my progress today, but here's the output of what I got done on the lp2kanban project: http://paste.ubuntu.com/613900/ (it just reads from LP, no writing to the board yet)
<gary_poster> benji, cool.  You mentioned earlier that your script was slow
<gary_poster> did you figure out a way to address that
<gary_poster> or is it endemic?
<benji> not any more, the last run took 18.297 seconds (and I've never seen it take more than 20)
<gary_poster> ok cool
<gary_poster> benji, thoughts on what to do with this?
<gary_poster> given that the time box is dead
<gary_poster> options: extend time box
<gary_poster> give someone else a timebox
<gary_poster> kill the timebox idea
<gary_poster> work on your chr days
<benji> well, I designed it so this feeds into the next step well: this should be just what we need to do the next step of updating the cards
<gary_poster> right
<benji> I don't really feel strongly one way or the other
<gary_poster> ok
<gary_poster> this is what we'll do
<gary_poster> one more day of timebox
<gary_poster> if it still is not deployable then
<benji> I believe I could get it updating the cards with one more day's work, but it doesn't have tests yet either
<gary_poster> we'll decide what to do, between giving up on it or saving it for someone else to play with the next time they want to have something like this
<gary_poster> ok
<benji> k
<gary_poster> so take it Tuesday
<benji> k
<gary_poster> then we'll see where we are then
#launchpad-yellow 2012-05-21
<frankban> hi gmb, how are you?
<gary_poster> bac benji frankban gmb call in 2
<bac> ok
<gary_poster> I'll make a location...
<gary_poster> bac benji frankban gmb https://talkgadget.google.com/hangouts/_/8cafd8d37dcd13c86acabe3bcf61a418748b3de5 (and I tried to invite you)
<gmb> Sloooow.
 * gmb -> grabbing lunch
<gmb> benji, When you've got a sec, I've got https://code.launchpad.net/~gmb/zope.testing/subunit-special/+merge/106638 ready for review.
<benji> gmb: sure
 * gary_poster lunches
<gmb> benji, Thanks for the review.
<gmb> gary_poster, So, should I make a zope.testing/3.9.4-p7 release?
<gmb> I can't remember what hoops we need to jump through now.
<gary_poster> gmb, yes, please.
<gary_poster> gmb, take a look at versions.cfg
<benji> gmb: (I was lunching) you're welcome
<gary_poster> gmb, if that's not enough, also see https://dev.launchpad.net/PolicyForDocumentingCustomDistributions
<gary_poster> I also can probably find a copy of the Magna Carta online, if you'd like to read that.
<bac> hi gary_poster, you have a moment to chat about the 2nd test count card?
<gary_poster> sure bac.  here or hangout?
<bac> ho
<bac> let me start one
<gary_poster> bac, cool, getting headphones, back in a sec
<bac> gary_poster: i've invited you on g+.  not sure how to get the url
<gary_poster> ok
<gary_poster> bac, don't see it though I got it on my phone.  Do you mind if we go to https://talkgadget.google.com/hangouts/_/63418bd77d4747f4ae7a2f652f2a9ace758e8438 instead
<bac> np
<gary_poster> bac https://lpbuildbot.canonical.com/waterfall
<gary_poster> bac https://lpbuildbot.canonical.com/builders/lucid_lp/builds/2076/steps/shell_6/logs/stdio
<gary_poster> lib/lp/services/webservice/doc/launchpadlib.txt
<gary_poster> bac https://lpbuildbot.canonical.com/builders/lucid_lp/builds/2007
<gary_poster> bac http://ubuntuone.com/2rMfcHi2RuUXJGRSGZZfzS
<gary_poster> approved, benji :-)
<benji> gary_poster: thanks
<gary_poster> welcome
<bac> hi gary_poster, looking at the output for the test case we talked about shows no discrepancies:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/999788/
<bac> did we just happen to pick an example where everything worked out ok?
<gary_poster> bac, not sure
<gary_poster> bac, bac, was going to show you another option, but must run
<gary_poster> will have something for you tomorrow morning hopefully
<gary_poster> ttyl
#launchpad-yellow 2012-05-22
<benji> I think I have termbeamer installable from a PPA now.  Testing would be appreciated.
<bac> benji: cool
<benji> bac: sudo apt-add-repository ppa:benji/termbeamer; sudo apt-get install termbeamer if you want to try it out
<bac> ah, you forgot sudo apt-get update!  :)
<gary_poster> hey bac, did you get what you needed from that ec2 instance?  I have some worker lists from it if you haven't that I could save.  I want to restart the instance and see if the changes to my charm work
<bac> gary_poster: please save.  i need more data to chase a theory
<gary_poster> cool
<frankban> gary_poster: http://ec2-23-21-26-159.compute-1.amazonaws.com:8010/builders/lucid_lp/builds/1/steps/shell_8/logs/summary the first failure seems a new one, the second should be 996729
<frankban> gary_poster: and thanks for the review
<frankban> s
<gary_poster> frankban, the first one is also known, and Brad has a simple egg I was supposed to test to address it (simply increasing a timeout)
<gary_poster> That said, frankban, I hadn't filed a bug because it was tied to some previous work Brad had done
<gary_poster> that was probably a mistake
<gary_poster> so if you file a bug, Brad or I can take it
<frankban> gary_poster: oh, ok
<benji> bac: I did forget the update.  Once it's installed try "tb --help"
<frankban> gary_poster: do you need the worker list?
<gary_poster> reviews: you're welcome of course--thanks for that work
<gary_poster> frankban, nah thanks
<frankban> gary_poster: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1002820
<_mup_> Bug #1002820: lp.testing.layers.RabbitMQLayer:setUp times out rarely/intermittently in parallel tests <paralleltest> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/1002820 >
<frankban> adding it to the board
<gary_poster> perfect thanks frankban
 * benji rushes to make coffee before the call.
<bac> benji: what happens if i have two-level auth turned on for my gmail account?
<bac> benji: and i do.  :)
<benji> bac: me too, you have to create an application password: support.google.com/accounts/bin/answer.py?answer=185833
<bac> great
<bac> benji: hey that appears to work.  i did get a traceback: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1000684/
<benji> bac: that's caused by not having my fixed python-vte package, which I made a PPA dependency but I guess that doesn't work the way I think it works; add the benji/vte-fixes ppa and do the update/upgrade dance and you should be good to go
<benji> the best part of being home is that I can reliably make a decent cup of coffee
<gary_poster> benji, which home is this now? :-)
<benji> gary_poster: heh, VA
<gary_poster> how/when did you get there?
<gary_poster> I guess when is the interesting part, assuming a teleporter wasn't involved
<bac> benji: you don't travel with your own stash of coffee?
<benji> how: Dodge Caravan, when: Sunday at about 8:30 pm local time
<gary_poster> ah!  I thought you were still in TN yesterday
<bac> benji: we now have a clean launch.  just like SpaceX.
<benji> bac: heh, maybe I should from now on; although my dad has one of those keurig one-cup-at-a-time things, they're pretty good
<gary_poster> frankban, bac, you are the designated default maintainers for our buildbot-slave and buildbot-master charms, respectively, because you had the most commits.  Would you object if I try to see if we can make yellow the maintainer for both of those?
<bac> nope
<benji> bac: maybe after the call we can do a tb test run
<bac> i'll prepare the iron lung
<bac> or was that polio?
<frankban> gary_poster: no objections
<bac> hey you've got a name for your follow on project
<benji> lol
<gary_poster> lol
<gary_poster> thanks bac & frankban
<gary_poster> bac benji frankban gmb call in 2
<gary_poster> I'll get us a room, as it were
<gmb> k
<benji> (I think it was polio.  People with TB just died.)
<gary_poster> https://talkgadget.google.com/hangouts/_/ca56b39f7ec51a3a743513e476a5512a15a0253e
<gary_poster> gmb yoohoo
<gmb> gary_poster, Firefox in quitting hilarity.
<gmb> Bear with me.
<gary_poster> :-P
<gary_poster> cool
<benji> bac: want to try termbeamer?
<bac> oh sure
<bac> i am brad.crittenden@gmail
<bac> benji: what is your xmpp?
<benji> bac: you've been invited to chat (approving the other person is a one-time first step that we have to do)
<benji> benji.york@gmail
<bac> so i just did --xmpp-receive
<bac> and nothing is happening
<bac> tb --xmpp-user=brad.crittenden@gmail.com --xmpp-password=XXX --xmpp-receive
<bac> is that right benji?
<benji> bac: did you go to gmail and approve my request to chat?
<benji> bac: yep, it looks good
<gmb> Wups. Better remove that sweary fake test from the LP tree before I commit...
<bac> benji: go where?  should i receive an email?
<benji> bac: the gmail UI should prompt you
<bac> er, cc.booty2?
<bac> ok, i authed that.  still see nothing
 * bac -> tea
<benji> bac: I invited the wrong you to chat, look for another auth message
<gary_poster> bac, workers 0-7 of r15280 on parallel buildbot: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1000718/ http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1000719/ http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1000720/ http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1000722/ http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1000724/ http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1000727/ http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1000728/ http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1000729/
<gary_poster> argh
<gary_poster> we don't have 15280 on lpbuildbot >:-(
 * gmb lunches
<gary_poster> I'll make a new set
<bac> thanks gary_poster
<gary_poster> welcome
<bac> benji: done
<bac> benji: i can see you
<benji> yay!
<benji> bac: watch this...
<bac> ok
<bac> what/
<benji> did your window get smaller when I resied mine?
<bac> no
<benji> darn
<bac> oh, i made my window big
<benji> bac: oh! I forgot to get you to use the --gui-client switch
<benji> restart with that
<bac> done
<bac> yes, smallerized
<benji> :)
<benji> cool
<bac> yes, very neat
<bac> can i do anything or just watch?
<gary_poster> watch the blinken lights
<benji> bac: right now just watch, the very next thing I want to add is client to server communication
<bac> that will be cooler but this is very neat indeed
<benji> bac: did you see the flashing crosshair?
<bac> yes
<benji> that's the first client-to-server thing I want to add, so we can both point things out
<benji> bac: do these colors look sane?
<bac> yes.
<bac> the italics and underline2 didn't do anything
<benji> bac: yeah, most terminals don't support that (including the terminal widget I'm using)
<bac> benji: also note i'm running this in an ssh session from X on OS X to precise and it still works.
<benji> it does support strikethough, but I don't bother sending that data, strikethrough seems rare
<benji> very cool
<benji> bac: do you want to try being the sender?
<bac> ok, sure
<bac> benji: do i use --gui-client?
<benji> bac: nope
<benji> the server is gui-only so there's no switch for that
<benji> bac: I see you
<benji> bac: heh; try your console editor of choice
<benji> you and your white background
<bac> how do i point?
<benji> control-click
<benji> bac: looks good
<bac> oh, you can see the crosshair?
<benji> yep
<bac> i don't see anything when i control click
<benji> I need to make the server show it too for feedback
 * benji adds to the TODO
<bac> well that's a smashing success
<benji> cool
<gary_poster> bac db-devel r11611.  parallel tests report 16718 tests, lpbuildbot reports 16761 tests (https://lpbuildbot.canonical.com/builders/lucid_db_lp/builds/1979).  parallel buildbot test worker lists follow, 0-7: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1000745/ http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1000746/ http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1000747/ http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1000749/ http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1000750/ http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/10
<gary_poster> 00753/ http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1000756/ http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1000757/ .  If I add the line numbers from those eight lists, I get 16718, so it seems to represent what the parallel test buildbot is counting.  Also frankban, those test lists are perfectly round-robin in counts (every list is either 2089 or 2090) which is good...except odd because it was not a first test run. :-/  Anyway, bac, that looks lik
<gary_poster> e something you can use.
<gary_poster> I'm going to shut down the instance and restart now,
<gary_poster> .
<bac> gary_poster: great.  that blows my theory, though.  had parallel shown more tests then i had a possible explanation
<gary_poster> :-/ k
<gary_poster> oh, bac, did you see my idea on presenting about parallel testing to that pythoncarolina thing in CH?  Not sure if it fits your timeline
<bac> gary_poster: no
 * gary_poster looks for it
<bac> gary_poster: found it
<bac> that sounds interesting
<gary_poster> cool
<bac> gary_poster: if i'm not around you can just wing it.  :)
<gary_poster> :-)
<bac> gary_poster: so i ran into a guy at RDU wearing an Open Stack t-shirt.  he said "yeah, i work for this company called 'Canonical'"...  odd
<gary_poster> bac, weird.  https://directory.canonical.com/list/state/NC/ ... bfox or bladernr?
<bac> gary_poster: no, i know those guys.  some new guy named adam stokes who doesn't have his address in the directory correctly
<gary_poster> huh
<gary_poster> cool,  I guess
<bac> and he pronounced it caneenical
<benji> heh
<benji> that's the little-used Knights Who Say Caneeenical pronunciation
<frankban> wow, DEBUG = True in canonicaladmin: https://directory.canonical.com/NOOOO
<benji> frankban: that is hilarious
<frankban> gary_poster: I've moved the card to done-done, AFAICT testrepository is doing the right thing
<bac> frankban: well, at least that is only on the directory not canonicaladmin
<frankban> bac: yes
<benji> https://directory.canonical.com/orgchart/ takes a while to respond :)
<benji> frankban: we should report that to whomever is responsible (I don't know who that is)
<frankban> benji: indeed (me either)
<bac> benji, frankban: probably stuartm
<gary_poster> frankban, awesome thanks
<bac> gary_poster: we have some tests (mainly doctests i think) that get run multiple times.  lpbuildbot is reporting them individually where our parallel test output only lists them once.  summary: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1000909/
<gary_poster> bac, should we be paranoid that these tests are not actually being run multiple times as they should be?
<gary_poster> concerned
<bac> gary_poster: i'm looking at the data collection code now.  i suspect it is a hash indexed by test name which throws away multiples
<gary_poster> bac, that would make sense, except that we have seen some duplicates, like that api test from, um, some bug we had
<gary_poster> benji, I see you are working on the rabbitmq bug
<gary_poster> did you get the egg from bac already?
<gary_poster> back in a sec
<benji> gary_poster: I feel like I should know what you're talking about because it was discussed this morning.
<bac> benji: last week i produced a rabbit-fixture egg that set absurdly high timeouts
<benji> and those timeouts were still being reached?
<bac> benji: no, gary never used it
<bac> benji: and now i can't find it.  :(
<bac> benji: found
<benji> what is the intended use of that egg?
<bac> benji: to run a novel branch of launchpad that uses that egg under parallel testing to see if the timeouts go away
<gary_poster> bac, benji, this is intermittent.
<benji> bac: are the timeouts frequent enough that doing that would tell us anything?
<gary_poster> therefore, I suggest that we may need to actually land use of that egg
<bac> benji: it is rabbitfixture 0.3.3-bac-exp and is now in download-cache/dist
<gary_poster> and see if it goes away.
<gary_poster> We've seen it twice in about 30 or 40 runs, I'd guess
<benji> Meta: I think there is room for process improvment here.  I feel like these things should have been written down in the bug.
<benji> yeah, either reproducing it or dramatically upping the timeouts seem like the only two rational approaches
<benji> bac: did you try to reproduce the timeout?
<gary_poster> benji, process improvement: Gary should have made a bug.  It was kind of a follow-on to existing work, so I didn't. Lesson: always make a bug.  It is not written in the bug because it is a placeholder that I asked Francesco to make. Ideally I would have at least added a "talk to me or Brad" to the bug.
<gary_poster> We did discuss it in this morning's meeting, but again, Gary should have written it down.  Lesson: always write stuff down in the proper place.
<gary_poster> I know those lessons, just didn't do 'em.
<gary_poster> Lesson: kick Gary.
<gary_poster> benji, I am pretty sure bac did not try to repro this timeout.  He had reproed an earlier one to determine that there was a bug in the egg.
<gary_poster> Someone had already fixed the code
<bac> and if we are to make an egg that is referenced by launchpad in production then it needs to be a full release of rabbitfixture and the code pushed
<gary_poster> but not released it
<bac> gary_poster: yes, but that 'fix' was not sufficient
<bac> benji: no, i have not tried to reproduce with the new experimental egg
<gary_poster> simply because the timeout was not enough for what we need, as we believe
<bac> yes.  it would be the proper fix for a non-parallel environment
<benji> so I should make a "full release" of rabbitfixture and add that to LP, right?
<gary_poster> Yeah, that's my suggestion.  I'm not sure what Brad means by a full release
<gary_poster> bac, do you think we should merge this?  I was thinking we ought to have a fork, and maybe file a bug to remove the fork and merge to trunk once we get 40 or so clean runs
<bac> gary, i mean 0.3.4 instead of 0.3.3.-exp
<gary_poster> gotcha, then I understood...
<bac> gary_poster: a fork is fine
<gary_poster> ok
<gary_poster> benji ^^
<bac> gary_poster: just don't do it via egg drops
<gary_poster> gotcha bac, agreed
<bac> per your previous edict
<gary_poster> i'm all about my edicts
<bac> i prefer hot'n'sour over egg drop
<benji> revision: I will fork rabbitfixture, make an egg, put that in the dependencies, and land an LP branch that uses that version
<gary_poster> go thou! go forth! nay, stop that villainy!
<bac> benji: do you want my code?
<benji> bac: sure (any reason we don't just use your egg as-is?)
<gary_poster> because it is an egg drop
<gary_poster> not a branch
<benji> ah
<benji> I missed that bit.
<frankban> aaargh gary_poster, I've written buildout instead of buildbot in the dependencies dir (slave charm) can I r=you the fix? btw, we should call the next project "buildnot"
<benji> what PPAs are to debs X are to eggs (we need an X)
<bac> benji: see lp:~/rabbitfixture/timeout-exp
<benji> "buildnot"!
<bac> benji: review the changes as you may not like them.  it is a mix of just upping the timeout and trying to parameterize it
<bac> buildsnot
<benji> bac: ok, thanks
<benji> pfft
<gary_poster> frankban, sorry, of course
<gary_poster> this error looks really familiar... http://ec2-184-72-171-77.compute-1.amazonaws.com:8010/builders/lucid_lp/builds/0/steps/shell_8/logs/summary
<gary_poster> anyone recognize it?  Looking for it...
<benji> gary_poster: that looks similar to one Brad and I fixed
<gary_poster> bug 993510
<_mup_> Bug #993510: lp.services.job.tests.test_runner.TestJobRunner.test_runJobHandleErrors_oops_generated_user_notify_fails fails intermittently/rarely in parallel tests <paralleltest> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/993510 >
<gary_poster> bug 992692
<_mup_> Bug #992692: lp.services.mail.tests.test_incoming.TestIncoming.test_invalid_to_addresses fails intermittenty/rarely in parallel tests <paralleltest> <qa-untestable> <Launchpad itself:Fix Released by benji> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/992692 >
<bac> gary_poster: do you have the full, unfiltered subunit output for the db-devel r 11611 run?
<benji> gary_poster: 992692 is the one I was thinking of
<gary_poster> bac, no, sorry.  If that's necessary then I have another machine running tests now, but you'll have to start the analysis over again
<gary_poster> :-(
<bac> gary_poster: it's all scripted
<bac> so it is no thing
<bac> also, to save you work i prefer the full subunit output not the ones divided by worker
<gary_poster> ok cool bac, got it
<bac> gary_poster: eta for completion?
<gary_poster> bac, 5 min.
<gary_poster> We are getting these somewhat frequently
<gary_poster> http://ec2-184-72-171-77.compute-1.amazonaws.com:8010/builders/lucid_db_lp/builds/0/steps/shell_6/logs/stdio
<gary_poster> Don't quite understand what is going on
<gary_poster> I think it happens when we switch between devel and db-devel
<gary_poster> but could be wrong
<gary_poster> bac, maybe you can just download this  http://ec2-184-72-171-77.compute-1.amazonaws.com:8010/builders/lucid_lp/builds/0/steps/shell_8/logs/subunit/text
<bac> ok
<frankban> gmb, am I right if I say that you can create a co-located branch from a normal one (residing in a shared repo) with "bzr switch -b foo"?
<gmb> frankban: I have no idea, I've never tried that :). Sounds sane, though.
<frankban> gmb: oh, because you started using colo-branches with the plugin I guess
<gary_poster> frankban, try it :-)
<gmb> yep
<frankban> ok
<gary_poster> it's kind of sad that I really need to use Google to search Launchpad's buugs
<bac> yay, i have water again!
<gary_poster> yay!
<gary_poster> water good
<bac> there is a big capacitor that is used at start up to give the pump a good jolt.  it was nasty and the wires fell out when touched.
<bac> i heart my redneck plumber
<bac> gary_poster:  do you know what revno was used for the run referenced above?
<gary_poster> heh
<gary_poster> yeah I can get it
<gary_poster> bac, 15282 (see http://ec2-184-72-171-77.compute-1.amazonaws.com:8010/builders/lucid_lp/builds/0/)
<bac> got it
<gary_poster> frankban, was colocation as easy as it sounded?
<frankban> gary_poster: yes
<gary_poster> frankban, cool!  I'll have to try.  Sounds like the advantages of lightweight checkouts but simpler to use
<frankban> gary_poster: yes it's cool, and actually I think each colocated branch is internally a lightweight checkout of the current branch
<gary_poster> makes sense
<bac> gary_poster: i think the duplicate tests are not being run the required number of times.  each only shows up once in the unified subunit output from the latest run.  the test data i had from yesterday (for r 15139) shows multiple lines for the repeated tests.
<gary_poster> bac, oh, so maybe a regression with the newer version of the testr and friends packages.  Thank you for investigating.
<bac> gary_poster: yeah, i think so.  what was the date of the 15139 run?
<bac> nm
<gary_poster> bac, to call this finished, then, we should file a bug.  We can throw it at something like testr and see if it sticks (if Robert will investigate) but +1 if you are willing and interested to take it farther
<bac> april 23
<gary_poster> right, exactly
<bac> ok, i didn't realize it was that old
<bac> gary_poster: dumb question, how can i do the equivalent of 'bin/test -t faqcollection.txt' with testr?
<bac> ok, so this appears to be what i was after:
<bac> bin/test --subunit -t faqcollection.txt |testr load
<bac> duh
<gary_poster> good to know
<gary_poster> bad stats today :-/
<bac> gary_poster: have time for a chat?
<gary_poster> bac, supposed to be talking to flacoste, but not, so sure
<bac> you want to make a hangout
<gary_poster> yeah ok
<bac> since whatever i did yesterday failed
<gary_poster> bac https://talkgadget.google.com/hangouts/_/49af6cb2474cf14af2cb37afc56f73c7c5fc120a
<bac> gary_poster: i've been doing some standalone (i.e. not buildbot) tests with testr --parallel
<bac> if i run "testr run --parallel -- -t faqcollection.txt" then faqcollection.txt appears once in the test partitions but gets run three times as seen in e.g. .testrepository/1
<bac> looking at the code i don't see any use of sets or other attempts to make the test ids unique
<gary_poster> bac, dunno
<gary_poster> bac, also, when you run them non-parallel, are they in different layers?
<bac> so i remain a bit confused.  the subunit output from the test you showed me today only had the suspect tests listed once
<bac> no
<gary_poster> or more generally
<gary_poster> how are they different?  are we sure we are running the, differently even when we see them multiple times across workers?
<bac> but, i think i may have a different version of testrepository installed locally due to the funky ppa naming
<gary_poster> oh
<bac> let me try to get the same version and see what happens
<gary_poster> maybe
<gary_poster> ok
<gary_poster> "the," was supposed to be "them"
<gary_poster> bac I have to run
<bac> ok, have fun.  wear a helmet if you go out
<gary_poster> will be back later fwiw
<gary_poster> heh thx
<bac> hail hurts
#launchpad-yellow 2012-05-23
<gary_poster> bac frankban gmb call in 2
 * gmb fires up firefox
<bac> gary_poster: where we doing this?
<bac> nm
<gary_poster> bac gmb frankban https://talkgadget.google.com/hangouts/_/edbf4dd708d7938ac8ac1f60fd51d01b84c936bc
 * gmb -> Lunch
 * gary_poster going to restart after new kernel
<frankban> gary_poster: I was looking at bug 1003097. It seems that at the end increasing the query count by 1 is not a bad idea. The test fails because this query (http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1003086/) is not cached. And I think that query is cached by Browser.open(TASK-URL).
<_mup_> Bug #1003097: lp.bugs.browser.tests.test_bugtask.TestBugTaskView.test_rendered_query_counts_constant_with_team_memberships fails when run by itself <paralleltest> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/1003097 >
<gary_poster> frankban, ok.  I guess we could either increase by one, or make the test itself open that url and then reset the query count
<gary_poster> either way, a comment will be important :-)
<gary_poster> back in a few
<gary_poster> hey gmb, I have a working parallel juju instance up so I'm going to try our benji's lpsetup branch.
<gary_poster> if it works, I can let you know and you can do a MP and so on
<gary_poster> is that ok?
<gmb> gary_poster, That works for me.
<gary_poster> cool thx
<gary_poster> gmb, can you access that branch, like via http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~benji/lpbuildbot/bug-1003044 ?  I can't
<gary_poster> gmb, asking webops to make it public
<gmb> gary_poster, Hmm. Me neither. Are lpbuildbot branches private by default (and if so, I guess they're private to canonical-sysadmins.
<gmb> Ah right.
<gmb> Yes, it'll need a rubber duckie.
<gary_poster> :-)
<frankban> gary_poster: do we want to try the triple jump from tasks/normal to qa/landing or is it too unfair?  https://code.launchpad.net/~frankban/launchpad/bug-1003097-isolation-failure/+merge/107024
<gary_poster> frankban, :-) reflect reality.  drag it to review and say that you went over the limit because you couldn't stand not fixing the bug :-P  Then you can drag it to landing
<gary_poster> approved frankban
<frankban> thanks gary
<gary_poster> thank you
<gary_poster> gmb, I eventually got a patch for benji's branch, and applied that...but I was not up to date in my charm and so lpsetup's dependencies were wrong :-(
<gary_poster> I'm redoing everything now
<gary_poster> but gmb, if/when you do have a moment
<gary_poster> if you could take a look at why tests fail in lp:~gary/charms/precise/buildbot-slave/add-max-builds-support that would be wonderful
<gary_poster> if you don't get around to it that's fine
<gary_poster> but it would be a great help
<gary_poster> and I think you know the details there better than I
<gmb> gary_poster, Actually, I can take a look in ten minutes or so.
<gmb> So I will :)
<gary_poster> awesome, thanks gmb
<gmb> gary_poster, When you say "tests" do you mean the charm tests or do you mean LP tests when that charm's used as a slave?
<gary_poster> gmb, sorry, I mean the charm tests
<gary_poster> the LP tests are doing fine
<gmb> gary_poster, Okay. Good - I didn't know if you mean that you'd also discovered that all the tests die horribly...
<gmb> *meant
<gary_poster> :-) no
<gmb> Actually, that was my fault for not bootstrapping, but still.
<gmb> Also, "ues" is not a valid response to a yes/no question. We live and learn.
<gary_poster> heh
<gary_poster> gmb, see my comment to https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1003206 , and shake your head and say "I knew it couldn't be that simple!" :-)
<_mup_> Bug #1003206: (parallel tests) worker output is missing from some tests <paralleltest> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/1003206 >
<gary_poster> gmb, and ow, we are doing something crazy with the subunit output now: various subunit bits are inserted within the last failure on the page of http://ec2-50-19-187-30.compute-1.amazonaws.com:8010/builders/lucid_lp/builds/0/steps/shell_9/logs/stdio , for instance. :-/
<gary_poster> holy smoke, the tests have gone haywire :-(
<gary_poster> I'm hoing to go get some lunch :-/
<gary_poster> or going
<gary_poster> you decide
<gmb> Doubleyew tee eff.
<frankban> Get someone else's branch landed means branch it and the ec2 landing it I suppose... could you confirm?
<gmb> gary_poster, So, I think this is definitely a good time to revert to -p6 for a run.
<gmb> frankban, Yes, that's right. You might be able to do `ec2 land $merge_proposal_url` though.
<gmb> I can't quite remember.
<gmb> gary_poster, Ah, crumbs, I think this is the problem:
<gmb> When we come across an error, we pass it to the Subunit formatter's _subunit.addError() method. That passes it to _addOutcome(), which writes to _stream... which in this case means that it gets written to stdout.
<gmb> Although the messiness makes no sense, since that's what _always_ happened.
<gmb> Hmm.
<gmb> gary_poster, I think we should do this:
<gmb> revert to -p6 for a run, to confirm that nothing new is screwing with things
<gmb> If that's confirmed, revert it in devel (and revert the -p7 change in zope.testing-3.9.4-fork)
<gmb> ???
<gmb> Win.
 * gmb -> grabbing some dinner but will BBL.
<gary_poster> :-)
<gary_poster> yeah will do after more lunch break
<bac> hey gary_poster, i haven't put it in canonicaladmin yet, but i plan to work on memorial day for a swap day tbd
<gary_poster> bac, cool
<bac> gary_poster: i'm trying to run a ec2 buildbot test and am running into errors.  you ever see permission denied errors re: /var/tmp/bazaar.launchpad.dev/mirrors
<gary_poster> bac, yes. :-(  today is not a good day for test runs.  Maybe we should pair after I finish my tl call notes (I was chair)
<bac> oh, ok
<bac> so is it a busted branch for LP?
<bac> oh benji!  :)
<gary_poster> bac https://talkgadget.google.com/hangouts/_/860d9077559ceb3952f1dd8c072db17bf6d623a8
<bac> ok
<gary_poster> qbac you disappeared
<gary_poster> bac
<bac> yesh
<bac> retrying
<gary_poster> did the hail eat you bac?
#launchpad-yellow 2012-05-24
<bac> hi gmb -- any progress on the /var/tmp problem?
<gmb> bac: none yet. Just grabbing some lunch; maybe we should pair on it after standup.
<bac> gmb ok.  i'll fire up an ec2 instance
<gmb> K
<gary_poster> oops
<gary_poster> bac benji frankban gmb call RSN
<gary_poster> getting a hangout address...
<gary_poster> bac benji frankban gmb https://talkgadget.google.com/hangouts/_/9ee69a171ceb3e2b794d492280bead509d4fddb8
<gary_poster> gmb is fighting firefox?
<gmb> gary_poster: Had lost connection. Joining now.
<gary_poster> cool
<gmb> Arrg
<gmb> Now I'm fighting firefox
<bac> gary_poster: if you're still chatting with benji would you mention he's not on irc?
<gmb> bac, I'm ready to hang out / skype / whatever whenever you are.
<bac> gmb: ok, you want to create a hangout?
<gmb> Sure.
<gmb> bac, Done. Invitation sent.
<gmb> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/8ef4543f15cb72fc89bf5cb8a2e897d3e614e3e2, for reference
<gary_poster> bac, benji won't be able to be here today after all
<gary_poster> gmb, did you want me to join?  got an invitation
<gmb> gary_poster, So did everyone, apparently.
<gmb> No, it's okay.
<gary_poster> ok cool
<gmb> We had a very confused Aaron.
<gary_poster> heh
<bac> gary_poster: in that case, can you and i talk during benji's 2:00 slot?
<gary_poster> did you include circles?
<gary_poster> bac, sure
<bac> gary_poster: gmb did point out the script branch-rewrite.py is added as a RewriteRule to the local-launchpad apache config.  so bouncing apache will cause /var/tmp/bazaar.launchpad.dev to be created.  can't find a link yet but it is good to know there is another (hidden) path that causes it to be made.
<gary_poster> bac, ah, interesting.  good catch.
<gmb> bac, gary_poster: The only reference I can find to /var/tmp/bazaar.launchpad.dev in the output of `make -d clean build schema` is the rm -rf of it that make build does.
<gmb> ... which is pretty much what we expected, I think.
<bac> gmb: yep, on an unbroken machine
<gmb> Ah.
<gmb> OICWYM.
<bac> it'll only be really interesting when run via lp-setup-lxc-build
<gary_poster> gmb, that matches what I saw, yeah.  I thought that, eventually, we might want to use "make inplace" rather than "make build" or "make install" because it seems to create the directories as we want
<gary_poster> ah, frankban, whoops.  getting a hangout room...
<gary_poster> gmb, need to step away and will ping when I return.  no later than quarter till.  S'ok?
<gmb> gary_poster, That's fine.
<gary_poster> thanks
<bac> gmb: i've got an instance that appears to be up.  want to hangout?
<gmb> bac, Sure. I'll need to hop over to my one-to-one with Gary at some point soon, but we might as well make a start.
<bac> gmb: soon being top of the hour?
<gmb> Hmm. Actually, sooner.
<gmb> bac, So, why don't you start poking around and I'll join you when I can.
<gmb> Rather than interrupting things just as they get going.
<bac> gmb: ok
<bac> gmb just create a hangout and invite me when you're read
<bac> y
<gmb> ok
<gary_poster> gmb, meh, sorry, and I made you not hangout
<gary_poster> but I'm ready now
<gary_poster> getting hangout
<gmb> Okay.
<gary_poster> https://talkgadget.google.com/hangouts/_/110aa68ecccc7bb4323ad132b1079bff120478e1
<gary_poster> gmb ^^
<bac> gmb, gary_poster: aha!
 * gary_poster eagerly awaits aha moment
<bac> the lxc container is getting brought up and down all of the time.  each time it comes up, apache starts and the branch-rewrite script gets run.  (this is the difference from a local machine)
<bac> so it is apache coming up that makes that directory
<bac> why this only happens now i don't know
<gary_poster> but bac, that happens also when we ssh in
<bac> but i can remove the directory, shut down the container, start it back up, and there it is
<bac> no
<gary_poster> to an lxc container that its already running
<gary_poster> bac https://talkgadget.google.com/hangouts/_/110aa68ecccc7bb4323ad132b1079bff120478e1 ?
 * bac dances a jig
<bac> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1004886/plain/
<bac> gary_poster, gmb: ^^
<bac> this time i *did* mean to interrupt
<gary_poster> bac :-) yay!  awesome, good catch
<bac> thx to gmb's insight
<gary_poster> now what do we do about it :-)
<gary_poster> Maybe we don't run make install
<gary_poster> initially
<gary_poster> and do make inplace instead
<bac> perhaps.  we may have a timing issue though.
<bac> lp-setup-lxc-build pretends to wait for the container to be "ready" but clearly apache is still coming up at that point
<bac> and if apache beats us, we're screwed unless we can delete that directory as root
<bac> which i don't think we can
<bac> gary_poster: can i join the hangout with you and gmb when you finish your weekly?
<gmb> bac, We finished; let me start a new one and invite you both
<gmb> (And hopefully not $world+$dog
<gmb> )
 * bac hates airlines.  just bought tickets for my parents and had to pay an extra $70 so they can sit next to each other.
<gary_poster> gmb could you give me url?
<gmb> gary_poster, https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/4b1e08d9fc3d9e4c60b747ee42d066a6cc4b6056?authuser=0&hl=en-GB#
<bac> gary_poster: here is the change i'm proposing.  will test on ec2 now.  http://paste.ubuntu.com/1005098/
<gary_poster> looking
<bac> so, it was a wee bit over two characters
<bac> but i wanted to ensure rewrite.log didn't get created by apache
<gary_poster> bac, I think that diff is reversed.  Could you confirm pls
<bac> yep, the first is reversed the second is correct.
<gary_poster> got it
<bac> i always get those wrong when doing bzr diff
<gary_poster> looks nice bac
<gary_poster> so, bac, after doing that, do you still feel like the "tests should pass after make inplace" approach should be pursued, or do you think this is far enough to take it?
<bac> gary_poster: i think it would be nice to not have to worry about apache if we don't have to
<bac> gary_poster: lpsetup will need to manage test vs dev box setup if that is the case.  (it may already do that)
<gary_poster> yeah, to some degree it does
<gary_poster> robert has already asked for/suggested more
<gary_poster> bac, I'm going to retroactively make a bug for this and assign you to it
<gary_poster> then put it on the card
<bac> gary_poster: ok
<bac> gary_poster: i've started a PPA build for my lpsetup changes.  it'll be an hour or so before it is ready
<gary_poster> cool
<gary_poster> and then another hour for the instance to be ready
<gary_poster> at which point we'll be pretty close to EoD
<bac> i've created a yellow/experimental ppa for adding stuff we just want to play with that we can easily remove
<gary_poster> cool, good idea
<gary_poster> bac, do you agree with this summary?
<gary_poster> Apache configuration is necessary for tests but makes it impossible to use "make clean" safely in lxc
<bac> yes
<gary_poster> cool
<gary_poster> bac, almost finished with bug then will call you
<gary_poster> bac, https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1004088
<_mup_> Bug #1004088: Apache configuration is necessary for tests but makes it impossible to use "make clean" safely in lxc <paralleltest> <Launchpad itself:In Progress> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/1004088 >
<gary_poster> bac, ping me when you are ready and I will start hangout
<bac> ping
 * bac runs to get water
<bac> gary_poster: ok
<gary_poster> bac https://talkgadget.google.com/hangouts/_/808e46bd4d2b62c66982476debd3a15c7440298f
<bac> urgh, my PPA is dragging along.  an hour later it has a 52 minute eta.
#launchpad-yellow 2012-05-25
<frankban> morning gmb, happy towel day
<gmb> Hi frankban, and thanks :)
<frankban> gmb: do you need any help with your cards? otherwise, I will find my way to go
<gmb> frankban, I'm okay for now, thanks.
<frankban> ok
<bac> hi gmb, frankban
<frankban> morning bac
<bac> any reason to not delete the ill-named python-shell-toolbox from our PPA?  it caused me some grief last night
<gmb> bac, No, kill it, kill it dead
<gmb> ARGH
<gmb> My internet connection is today made up of two strands of wet twine, it seems.
<bac> mine is puke too
<bac> the default DNS settings have been redirecting everything to the ISP's helpful page for missing domains.  missing domains like google.com
 * bac thanks mountainview for 8.8.8.8
 * bac is not at home where he controls his own dns
 * gmb -> decamping to somewhere with a (hopefully) more reliable connection. 
<gmb> If I'm not back for standup, well, my hopes were misplaced.
 * gmb returns
<gary_poster> bac benji frankban gmb, call in 4 at https://talkgadget.google.com/hangouts/_/c7f93f8f4b28e5cc9d2fce054ce47fff8d7bd402
<gmb> Sigh
<gary_poster> bac, will you be able to join us or has the beach house eaten you?
<bac> joining
<bac> was muted
<gmb> gary_poster: Argh. Hangout went away.
<gmb> Although, battery is dying, so I need to relocate...
<gmb> If there's anything that I have to add to the week's summary I'll email it to you.
<gary_poster> ok thanks gmb
<bac> gary_poster, gmb: would either of you please review these branches?
<bac> https://code.launchpad.net/~bac/launchpad/cleanish/+merge/107385
<bac> https://code.launchpad.net/~bac/lpsetup/cleanish/+merge/107386
<gary_poster> bac, on it
 * gmb ->late lunch
<gary_poster> bac, approved https://code.launchpad.net/~bac/launchpad/cleanish/+merge/107385 with one request for a new bug and an XXX.  Moving to lpsetup branch...
<gary_poster> bac, approved https://code.launchpad.net/~bac/lpsetup/cleanish/+merge/107386
<gary_poster> thank you
<bac> gary_poster, great, thanks
<gary_poster> frankban, let me know when you want to talk about LEP/Robert.  No rush, I have plenty to do.
<gary_poster> But now is fine too.  Whatever works. :-)
<frankban> gary_poster: right now I am reading why it's so cool to have the type written after the identifier of the variable... so, when you want I am ready
<gary_poster> :-)
<gary_poster> ok cool
<gary_poster> frankban, https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/3e12fc37e523c962162d355f209b7f8db889d1fb?authuser=0&hl=en-US
<bac> i am landing my LP fix via 'ec2 land' but am not going to land the lpsetup fix until LP lands to avoid breakage.
<bac> benji, i'd like to talk to you about the 'tests not being run/counted' card but am in the middle of a really long review right now.  (i am OCR)  will you be available after lunch?
<benji> bac: sure
<bac> benji, or we could talk now...but i won't be available to pair until after this review
<benji> bac: it would probably be better to talk when we can pair
<bac> ok.  i thought you might want to mull it over beforehand...
<benji> Now that Termbeamer is packaged I've updated the instructions: https://dev.launchpad.net/yellow/Termbeamer
<bac> benji, i'm free now.  want to chat for a bit or wait until after lunch?
<benji> bac: now is good
<bac> ok, i'll start a hangout
<bac> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/4a47d7666babb29f56af88de2f1bc4d2e10087ce?authuser=0&hl=en#
<benji> bac: I need to run across the street to the drug store real quick.  I'll be back in a minute.
<bac> benji, ok
<bac> join my tb when you want
<benji> bac: I'm back.
<bac> benji, cool, can you see my term?
<bac> benji, http://paste.ubuntu.com/1006752/
<benji> bac: starting tb now
<bac> benji, can you start a hangout and invite me?
<bac> brb
<benji> bac: sure
<bac> hey gary_poster
<gary_poster> hey bac
<bac> i just got email that techshop in raleigh is doing an event with nasher for kids to make their own mobile tomorrow.  you want me to forward it to you?  looks interesting.
<gary_poster> sure thank you bac
<bac> are your kids old enough to run numerically controlled cutters?
<gary_poster> um
<bac> am i?
<gary_poster> am i?
<gary_poster> lol
<bac> looks like fun
<bac> i think sackett is into that fab stuff
<bac> gary_poster, good news. we collaborated the hell out of the test collapsing problem and i'm working on a pretty easy fix
<gary_poster> bac, heh, awesome
<gary_poster> bac, is there a quick summary as to the cause?
<bac> yeah, the change i made to keep --load-list ordered used a dict.  it was squirreled away in the darkest recesses of LP
<gary_poster> that nasher/calder thing looks cool
<gary_poster> ah!
<gary_poster> cool, glad it is found
<bac> the prelim fix is http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1006909/
<bac> my LP branch landed, so i'll now push lpsetup and that card can move
<bac> done
<gary_poster> bac, why did you remove xvfb-run?  that's important
<bac> gary_poster, oh, that was just for testing.  i've reverted it
<bac> gary_poster, i need to drop into pdb and xvfb-run prevents that
<gary_poster> bac, oh ok cool
<bac> gary_poster, benji : have a good weekend.  i'm done.
<bac> and happy memorial day
<gary_poster> you too bac, bye
<gary_poster> talk to you tuesday
<bac> ok
