#ubuntu-meeting 2005-08-22
<cyphase> hey everyone
<cyphase> hey everyone
<jelkner> good morning everyone, there is a meeting about to start here, yes?  (i wanted to make sure i didn't drag myself out of bed for naught)
<Treenaks> jelkner: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas
<Treenaks> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar
<smurfix> jelkner: 1400UTC => in two hours
<jelkner> smurfix: thanks
<jelkner> JaneW: i thought we had an edubuntu meeting
<jelkner> so did paul
<ogra_> jelkner, yes, in 12h
<ogra_> youre a bit early
<ogra_> :)
<jelkner> btw that one is not on the calendar
<jelkner> or the MeetingAgendas
<jelkner> but at least i get to go back to sleep
<ogra_> tomorrows CD will be our first colony btw.... todays already looks *very* good
<ogra_> (edubuntu colony indeed, not ubuntu)
<jbailey> ogra_: Does this mean we still have to avoid uploading today?
<jelkner> ogra_: excellent, so you think we can start setting up servers with it?
<ogra_> jelkner, you already can do that today... but with much hassle...
<ogra_> jbailey, there is no ubuntu colony 3 yet, so i guess you should avoid to upload broken stuff
<jelkner> i can live with hassle, but i wanted to be sure i *could* get it to work
<jbailey> Mmm, mdz usually likes people to avoid uploading at all so that the images are consistent.
<Mithrandir> ogra_: wasn't colony supposed to release yesterday or before that?
<ogra_> Mithrandir, yes, but #13532
<jelkner> and once we do get it to work, i was hoping to be able to apt-get upgrade my way to the final release
<jelkner> so that i can begin setting up the classroom lab for the fall
<jbailey> ogra_: That would be bad. =)
<jbailey> I'd love to get this initramfs-tools in, then.
<ogra_> jelkner, edubuntu ltsp is already usable... i test it twice a week
<ogra_> jbailey, do they improve ltsp ? 
<jbailey> ogra_: Yes.
<jelkner> ogra_: cool! i'll start using it tomorrow
<ogra_> jelkner, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThinClientHowto
<ogra_> just follow that one, you can even use it on ubuntu right away... (still needs a network connection to download the client env, but that will change soon to CD)
<jbailey> ogra_: The improvement is that I now forcible install non-optimised libraries, so if you built the initramfs on an i686 with CMOV and the destination machine doesn't have it (old VIA chips), the initramfs will now work.
<jelkner> ogra_: the schooltool folks are concerned that 0.10 is still the current version in edubuntu.  is there still time to change that?
<jbailey> ogra_: jammcq and another guy tested for me last night.
<ogra_> jelkner, i already have mail from mark to update it... i was just busy with fixing moodle and nvu ....
<ogra_> jbailey, yes, i saw the conversation... but in the end mdz should give approval for uploads before we have a colony out
<jbailey> ogra_: Yup.  Is he the only one?
<ogra_> i guess so, Kamion has no representative afaik
<jbailey> 'kay
<jelkner> well, see you in 12 hours then (jelkner goes back to bed)...
<jbailey> I'll pounce when I see him log on, then.
<ogra_> i mean, if youre sure it wont break anything or even unbreak stuf....
<jbailey> ogra_: I'm sure to the extent that it runs on 5 different machines.  But there's always risk.
<ogra_> hmm... i guess its up to you to decide if it improves or breaks... 
<ogra_> improvement should go in indeed...
<jbailey> ogra_: Given the bugs that it fixes, I'd rather see it in.  Given that he's mid way through the colony process, I'd rather not interfere.
<jbailey> So if he's restarting from scratch this morning, I'd cheerfully upload.
<ogra_> he sadly didnt tell me anything except "there is no colony3 yet ogra"
<ogra_> which stunned me a bit... since the rameining X bug was fixed yesterday night... so todays daily should have been the colony3
<JaneW> jelkner: yes we do
<JaneW> jelkner at 22:00
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:JaneW] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/  | 17 Aug 22:00 UTC: Edubuntu Dev Meeting | 17 Aug 14:00 UTC: Doc Team | 23 Aug 2000h UTC Tech Board | 24 Aug 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 25 Aug 14:00 UTC: Doc Team | 30 Aug 20:00 UTC: Community Council
<Burgundavia> hey all
<mgalvin> howdy
<mdke> hello all
<mgalvin> might as well just start with names for the record
* mgalvin is Matt Galvin
<mdke> matthew east
* Burgundavia is a a very tired Corey Burger
<mgalvin> This special meeting is to discuss what will be used as the front page of yelp
<mgalvin> so what exactly are all of our options for the front page?
<mgalvin> faqguide, quicktour,...
<mdke> we have the option to have a list of documentation or to open it up immediately into a book
<Burgundavia> we pretty much are only going to able to ship with the faqguide and the quicktour
<mdke> to some extent it depends on which documents will be released for breezy
<mgalvin> i took a quick look at the aboutubuntu and releasenotes and we can probably include them in some way if they are still relevant to have
<mdke> the aboutubuntu document has its own link in the menu right now
<mdke> what is the idea for the quicktour?
<Burgundavia> yes
<mdke> how will that be accessed?
<Burgundavia> the quicktour is mostly a marketing doc for the web and hand-outs
<Burgundavia> it can also be linked from the about ubuntu stuff
<Burgundavia> and the release notes
<mdke> yeah
<mdke> well if those are the only documents, it might not be so vital to have an index of documents
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> given we havea bout 3 weeks left for writing, even the quicktour is going to be a crunch
<mgalvin> so then maybe the faqquide should just be the front page since the other docs are already linked from other places
<Burgundavia> if we link the faqguide as the front page, we should a front page for the faqguide that links the other docs (release notes, quicktour, about ubuntu)
<Burgundavia> that can be really short
<mgalvin> yes agreed
<mdke> yes that is a nice idea
<mdke> obviously this discussion does not apply to Kubuntu
<mdke> what are the issues there?
<mgalvin> ok, so faqguide as front page and the faqguide needs another section to link to other docs, this new section should the first thing shown
<Burgundavia> jjesse would be one to ask
<Burgundavia> mgalvin, just add a paragraph at the top of the current front page
<mgalvin> sure
<mdke> does anyone think that the early sections of the Userguide might be worth releasing
<Burgundavia> no
<mdke> they provide a good introduction to what linux, GNU, and Ubuntu is
<Burgundavia> oh, sure
<jjesse> sorry was in another window
<jjesse> i would have to defer to froud on how exactly it works in kubuntu
<mgalvin> what kubuntu docs are done?
<mgalvin> or will be ready in time
<mgalvin> there is very little kubuntu content in the faqguide
<jjesse> i know the kuserguide won't be
<jjesse> haven't read thrrough the faqguide lately, but if i recall correctly mgalvin  is correct that not much will need to be changed
<mgalvin> kug kqg krn kak are the docs that get included in kubuntu already with froud weekly build/upload
<Burgundavia> same as ubuntu then
<mgalvin> ubuntu only has, rn au faq
<Burgundavia> qt is qg
<mgalvin> k
<Burgundavia> anyone seriously object to using the faqguide as the main page?
<mdke> nope
<mgalvin> no objections here
<Burgundavia> I think jerome was warming to the idea
<mdke> ok let's defer to the mailing list, given that not a lot of peopl are around
<Burgundavia> ok
<mgalvin> ok
<mdke> anything else people want to discuss?
<Burgundavia> raise it as "lets make the faqguide the default main page"
<mgalvin> nope
<Burgundavia> rather than "what do people want as the default main page"
<mdke> Burgundavia, so pushy...
<mgalvin> sounds good, who wants to send the email
<Burgundavia> mdke, we need to be pushy now
<mdke> ok last call for more agenda items
<Burgundavia> mgalvin, your guide
<Burgundavia> mdke, none from me
<mdke> ok
<mgalvin> ok, i'll mail the list in a few min
<mdke> end of meeting then
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Seveas] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/  | 17 Aug 22:00 UTC: Edubuntu Dev Meeting | 23 Aug 20:00 UTC Tech Board | 24 Aug 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 25 Aug 14:00 UTC: Doc Team | 30 Aug 20:00 UTC: Community Council
<flint> hey jane.!
<ogra> flint, you scared her it seems :)
<flint> just another case of FITS (Flint Induced Tourette's Syndrome) Ollie...
<ogra> :)
<Loiosh> That would be.. 4 pm cst?
<ogra> Loiosh, what ? 
<Loiosh> The Edubuntu developer meeting?
<Loiosh> -6 GMT is -6 UTC, I was just trying to figure out the time with my poor, uneducated american mind =)
<ogra> Loiosh, looks like we will postpone it, JaneW is ill... and she is the project manager...
<Loiosh> Ahh, oh well =)
<ogra> i'm only the technician... and i'm not sure what non techie stuff she wanted to discuss
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ogra] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/  | 17 Aug 22:00 UTC: Edubuntu Dev Meeting !!! postponed to Aug 18 !!! | 23 Aug 20:00 UTC Tech Board | 24 Aug 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 25 Aug 14:00 UTC: Doc Team | 30 Aug 20:00 UTC: Community Council
<GNULinuxGeek> Hello All...
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-08-23
<BJW> Hello
<BJW> Has the meeting started?
<ajmitch> BJW: postponed to 18th
<mhz> ogra: ping?
<BJW> o ok than you
<BJW> Pong?
<mhz> ogra: ping ping?
<jelkner> an edubuntu meeting is about to begin, yes?
<Seveas> np
<Seveas> no
<jelkner> no?
<Seveas> it's 00:00 UTC, the meeting was at 22:00
<jelkner> i was on at 8 am, and i was told that i was 12 hours early
<jelkner> (all times EST)
<Seveas> ah the meeting is postponed, see topic
<Seveas> and for UTC time: date --utc
<jelkner> ?
<mgalvin> it was push to tomorrow
<jelkner> so it hasn't happened yet?
<mgalvin> nope, see the channel topic at the top of this window
<Seveas> mgalvin, do you happen to know the new time?
<jelkner> thanks
<mgalvin> it will be tomorrow at 22:00UTC
<mgalvin> should be the same
<jelkner> how do i figure into EST?
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Seveas] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/  | 18 Aug 22:00 UTC: rescheduled Edubuntu Dev Meeting | 23 Aug 20:00 UTC Tech Board | 24 Aug 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 25 Aug 14:00 UTC: Doc Team | 30 Aug 20:00 UTC: Community Council
<Seveas> jelkner, `date --utc` gives the time in utc
<Seveas> then just do some math
<Seveas> (it will be in 22 hours)
<mgalvin> its 4pm est
<jelkner> ok, tomorrow at 4 pm EST, thanks!
<jelkner> i was doing to download the edubuntu iso tomorrow and have a crack at it, but i was waiting to hear from folks at the meeting if it was ready
<jelkner> is it ready?  or should i wait?
<mgalvin> not sure, try asking ogra on #edubuntu he will know
<jelkner> ok, i didn't know there was a #edubuntu, i'll head over there now...
<Simira> Treenaks : your t-shirts are on their way.
<Treenaks> Simira: \o/ cool
<Treenaks> now if only the laptop would arrive
<ajmitch> Treenaks: I know that feeling :)
<Treenaks> ajmitch: I got an email on tuesday.. it might come in today.. unless it's being shipped by snail
<ajmitch> Treenaks: great, I haven' got the email saying it's shipped yet
<ajmitch> and I live a *lot* further away :)
<Treenaks> ajmitch: muha
<Lathiat> heh
<Lathiat> i havent got an email either
<Lathiat> whens the next CoC meeting?
<Lathiat> ah 30 aug?
<Lathiat> bah thats 2 weeks away ;p
<jelkner> is there an edubuntu meeting here any time soon?
<crimsun> jelkner: at 2200 UTC, which is in 1h 45m
<jelkner> ahh, thanks!
<smurfix> jelkner: next time you might want to actually *listen* when people tell you when the next meeting is ;-)
<jelkner> smurfix: i thought i did, someone told me 4 pm
<jelkner> which is now
<smurfix> Hmm, depends on *which* 4pm then ...
<mitsuhiko> jelkner: wrong timezone :=
<jelkner> ahh, i had said EST, which i thought was Eastern Standard Time
<jelkner> i realize that it behoves me to just learn UTC and to stick with that
* JaneW gives jelkner a lesson on time zone conversions *duck*
<JaneW> (and don't expect any sympathy from me it's 11pm here!)
<JaneW> I'll be back in an hour I have another session with mdz first
<JaneW> and most humble appologies for standing everyone up last night *grovel*
<JaneW> *** reminder *** Edubuntu Update meeting here in 45 minutes
<JaneW> hi all
<ogra> hey
<JaneW> hi ogra
<JaneW> just you and me...?
<jelkner> hi Jane
<ogra> mdz just joined :) jelkner is here since yesterday
<JaneW> hi jelkner :))
<jelkner> seems i actually made it this time ;-)
<JaneW> well done
<JaneW> and again sorry about yesterday
<jelkner> no problem
<jelkner> i'm in the middle of an edubuntu install as we type...
<JaneW> did jsgotangco make it...?
<ogra> JaneW, i announced it in the topic here
<ogra> doesnt look like
<JaneW> jelkner: great, so you can give us live feedback
<JaneW> ogra: yes thanks I saw that
<JaneW> well let's get started
<ogra> ok
<JaneW> same format as before, let run through progress to date and take it from there
<JaneW> ogra: do we have a CD?
<ogra> somehow, yes :)
<JaneW> and it.... installs?
<JaneW> *holds breath*
<ogra> its still missing the server task, i have no idea how to add it...
<JaneW> can you get help on that?
<ogra> mdz apparently too... Kamion wil be able to help me if i cant find out myself
<jelkner> question: the install just finished ogra, so i don't have an LTSP server yet, yes?
<ogra> jelkner, did you see my mail ?
<JaneW> ogra: when Kamion back more than a week still I think
<ogra> http://edubuntu.org/EdubuntuTesting
<ogra> jelkner, ^
<jelkner> ogra: i'm reading it now...
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-08-24
<ogra> JaneW, i'm still testing different guesses i have... so its likely that i solve it before Kamion comes back
<JaneW> ogra: ok
<ogra> for the desktop task there are still some man inclusion reports pending, but it gets into shape...
<JaneW> ogra: how serious is this, and is it effecting our timeline badly?
<ogra> s/man/main
<ogra> JaneW, we'll solve it before preview
<JaneW> ogra: is Corey still helping with the reports?
<ogra> nope
<JaneW> :(
<ogra> i did them myself...
<ogra> they are done 
<JaneW> do you need a new helper?
<ogra> nope
<JaneW> and do we have any volunteers?
<ogra> all are done, only pending for pitti reviews
<JaneW> ok
<ogra> some packeges need work, thats what i'm on currently
<JaneW> ok
<ogra> nvu is updated to the current version, needs some changes still, but will be ok for inclusion soon...
<JaneW> mdz asked that I make a call fro more LTSP testers
<ogra> JaneW, thats what i made with my maiul today
<ogra> mail
<JaneW> nod
<ogra> mhz already tests, jelkner apparently too
<JaneW> there's a page  http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspBreezyTest
<ogra> hmm
<JaneW> Jim McQuillan calling for testing
<ogra> JaneW, they should also see the http://edubuntu.org/EdubuntuTesting page
<JaneW> ogra: is that exactly the same as the edubuntu LTSP testing or not?
<ogra> since it uses the current CD we have
<JaneW> ok
<ogra> the more it improves, the less manual work will be needed... i'll build a edubuntu-config package that makes the dhcp part easier
<JaneW> ogra: what progress do you expect to mkake in the next week or so?
<ogra> but in the end we'll have it all automatic, excep you'll need to select the network adresses
<ogra> finishing the last tasks for edubuntu-server, starting edubuntu-config
<ogra> (desktop is nearly done) 
<JaneW> ogra: DHCP should do that for you...no? Or do you need to give an initial range?
<ogra> you'll have to give the range
<ogra> thats what the -config package will be for
<ogra> + restarting all the needed services...
<ogra> for installing edubuntu in the end you will need to:
<ogra> create the initial admin user
<ogra> give the dhcp range
<ogra> ...
<ogra> thats all
<JaneW> cool
<JaneW> even I could do that ;)
<ogra> yep, thanks to mdfz :)
<ogra> mdz
<ogra> even
<JaneW> freudian slip there?
<ogra> without his perparation this wouldnt be possible
<JaneW> nod
<jelkner> ok, it is asking all about postfix configuration... not good
<JaneW> ogra: done?
<ogra> jelkner, that will be presseded for local transport only
<JaneW> ogra: is there anything else you want to mention wrt to testing?
<jelkner> ogra: we won't even have to think about this later, yes?
<ogra> nope, i'd like to see some feedback to my mail
<jelkner> ??
<ogra> jelkner, exactly, except you want to use this machine as mailserver, then you run dpkg-reconfigure
<jelkner> i thought we were aiming at k12-ltsp ease of use
<JaneW> ogra: well 180 ppl on the list now - hopefully some of those will test and respond!
<lamont> why does it even have an MTA?
<jelkner> sure, but easy things should be easy, and complex things should be possible.  if someone *wants* a mail server, we can assume much more about their unix skills
<JaneW> hi lamont 
<ogra> lamont, i dont know, it comes from the normal desktop task
<lamont> hi JaneW 
<jelkner> newbies should not even know it's an option
<ogra> jelkner, exactly
<lamont> ubuntu desktop dropped postfix for breezy, I thought
<ogra> jelkner, thats why i'll use local transport for preseeding
<ogra> jelkner, so you'll only have to think about mail transport if you really want to ues it as mailserver
<ogra> lamont, not yet it seems
<ogra> lamont, i use the ubuntu desktop seed as base, its still having a mailserver
<BrandonWeeks> Hello
<ogra> so either that gets dropped later or we'll keep it 
<ogra> hi BrandonWeeks 
<BrandonWeeks> HAs the meeting started?
<ogra> yup
<BrandonWeeks> Thanks
<JaneW> BrandonWeeks: 24 mins ago - but welcome
<JaneW> BrandonWeeks: you been testing? :)
<BrandonWeeks> No I'm setting up my old box for testing now.
<JaneW> great
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> JaneW, i followed the doctem meeting before... they didnt mention edubuntu.. and i still dont see any artwork improvementd
<ogra> s/d/s
<ogra> is there any feedback ? 
<JaneW> damn, I was going to ask about doc team
<JaneW> I know jsgotangco is feeling a little frustrated
<JaneW> he's been focusing on the cookbook, but can't revise it for us until we have something
<ogra> they concentrate on kubuntu and ubuntu it seems... but kubuntu was mentioned even more
<JaneW> I think he has gone back to his other docs for a bit
<BrandonWeeks> Does anybody have the link to the daily builds, I cant find the link in the wiki anymore?
<ogra> as far as i followed the meeting this afternoon
<jelkner> question: if i get this to work, can i rely on apt-get upgrade to get me all the way to the final release?
<ogra> BrandonWeeks, http://edubuntu.org/EdubuntuTesting
<BrandonWeeks> Thank you
<ogra> jelkner, yes, yu should :)
<jelkner> great!
<jelkner> so i can start adding students for the fall, etc
<ogra> jelkner, i think so, yes
<jelkner> ogra: i understand there are no guarentees, but at least that's the plan ;-)
<ogra> jelkner, only -desktop and -server seed will change a bit.. but no essential stuff
<ogra> i.e. gcompris waits for inclusion in the desktop seed and moodle/mediawiki for the server
<ogra> but that wont kill/change your added students...
<ogra> jelkner, see the commented stuff on: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/edubuntu-breezy/desktop
<BrandonWeeks> For testing I can run the desktop and server on the same box correct?
<ogra> and
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/edubuntu-breezy/server
<ogra> BrandonWeeks, yes
<BrandonWeeks> Thank you
<JaneW> ogra:  the artwork you mentioned what do you mean?
<ogra> BrandonWeeks, but currently the X autoconfiguration seems broken, follow the testing notes
<JaneW> usplash etc?
<ogra> JaneW, splash, wallpaper
<ogra> and probably usplash
<JaneW> ok, we have ppl who said they were interesed but still not got anything yet
<ogra> i'm not sure if we want usplasjh for the thin cliens
<JaneW> I'll check with highvoltage to see if he has anything new
<JaneW> I mailed Sebastien Loss the guy that made the cool Breezy mascot
<ogra> worst case i'll throw something together... we'll have some artwork
<JaneW> and he said he is prepared to do something for us for edubuntu
<JaneW> should I ask Andy Fitz to help us?
<ogra> but the artwork front is very silent anyway, even in ubuntu
<JaneW> nod
<JaneW> but ogra you shouldn;t do it
<ogra> JaneW, he doesnt do very much, i'm in the artwork channel constantly
<JaneW> unless you really wants to in your copius spare time!
<JaneW> s/wants/want
<ogra> JaneW, i worked 2 years ar graphics designer, i could do it...
<ogra> its nothing i'm after, but worst case i could produce something
<ogra> (something usabel indeed)
<JaneW> ogra: I have no doubt you could do it!
* JaneW proposed we change the name to ograbuntu
<ogra> its a thing to do in an afternoon... 
<ogra> heh
<BrandonWeeks> lol
<JaneW> Ok so we need to give ogra space to get the dev on track
<JaneW> we need to test test tes
<JaneW> t
<ogra> yep
<JaneW> and we need to get the artwork sorted
<JaneW> and the docs finished (but they are also dependant on dev progress)
<ogra> and more important, docs
<JaneW> what else?
<ogra> thats all for now... docs, docs docs
<JaneW> besides the cookbook what all do we need there
<JaneW> jsgotangco indicated that he has done some other stuff too
<ogra> hopefully not much...
<ogra> great
<JaneW>  *  All standard docs for Ubuntu will also be included in Edubuntu  viewable in Yelp, the doc team will also add some more Edubuntu-specific docs.
<JaneW>  * Release notes, faqs, stuff, etc. should come naturally once we have a working system. Jerome did make some basic structured docs on the doc team svn.
<ogra> the less docs we need the better our release is :)
<JaneW> nod
<BrandonWeeks> Right.
<JaneW> we ideally should give Jerome a bit of time to do the docs
<ogra> yep
<JaneW> so as soon as he can d/l and install something that works the better
<ogra> he still has time until preview
<ogra> i think with my installation notes he'll be fine already... 
<ogra> (while these will get shorter with every improvement we make)
<ogra> i hope he can test the thin client stuff
<ogra> because thats the interesting bit
<JaneW> nod
<BrandonWeeks> Do you know if the teachers pet  will work with fat cliets?
<ogra> BrandonWeeks, i doubt Teachers Pet will make it into this release, probably in universe as a last minute thing.. but not on the CD...
<BrandonWeeks> Ok
<ogra> www.grawert.net/SCP.png
<ogra> thats what i have until now...
<BrandonWeeks> Yes, I have saw that.
<jelkner> anyone ready for an update on the install?
<ogra> it gives you the option to kill student sessions and to connect via vnc...
<ogra> but not much more yet
<JaneW> jelkner: sure
<ogra> jelkner, sure !
<jelkner> ogra: your instructions were crystal clear
<ogra> thanks :)
<jelkner> the server installation finished
<jelkner> but the first client i tried to boot kernel panicked
<JaneW> ogra: well done :)
<ogra> did you try a second time? we have a bug in uninonfs that requires a second boot sometimes
<ogra> mdz is on it
<jelkner> it failed on mount /opt/ltsp/i386
<jelkner> timed out
<jelkner> will do now...
<mdz> that's not a unionfs bug
<ogra> yeah, thats the typical unionfs bug... 
<ogra> mdz, ??
<mdz> the unionfs module isn't even loaded yet at that point
<ogra> ah, yes, rather a timeout in the NIC initialization
<mdz> ogra: I CCed you on the Bugzilla bug that I think that is
<ogra> mdz, you CCed me on a ton of bugs today... i'll have to walk through them... Cxx bugs all over the place :)
<jelkner> second time's a charm!
<ogra> 12942c:)
<ogra> yay
<jelkner> it worked!
<ogra> great :)
<jelkner> ok, one of my students is about to start a CanDo presentation... i gotta run... thanks folks!
<ogra> jelkner, thanks for the feedback, i owe you one :)
<jelkner> i'll have plenty more feedback over the next few weeks
<jelkner> we are going to be setting up several of these around the area
<ogra> great
<jelkner> pleanty of tests...
<jelkner> cya
<mdz> jelkner: there's some sort of race condition there where the card isn't initialized soon enough
<ogra> bye
<mdz> I think I may need to add a sleep or something until we can figure it out
<JaneW> bye jelkner !
<jelkner> ok, sleep on it then ;-)
<jelkner> bye
<JaneW> anything else to discuss?
<JaneW> ogra: do you think these sessions are useful in anyway?
<ogra> since neither doc or artwork people are here, i think we can close now...
<JaneW> I think it helps to get all the info progress and requests bundled together...
<ogra> JaneW, yes
<JaneW> I don't think this time was great though
<JaneW> back to 12:00UTC next wed?
<ogra> yepo
<ogra> -o
<JaneW> yay :)
<ogra> lets see what feedback comes on the ML
<ajmitch> ogra: don't forget the MOTU meeting next week ;)
<ogra> i wont
<JaneW> I'll chase up docs and artwork in the meantime
<ogra> :)
<ajmitch> ogra: I hope having the two meetings on the same day is ok for you?
<ogra> sure
<ogra> ajmitch, online meetings are not as exhausting as RL meetings
<ogra> (and you can scroll back)
<ogra> *g*
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:JaneW] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/  | 23 Aug 20:00 UTC Tech Board | 24 Aug 12:00 UTC : Edubuntu Update Meeting | 24 Aug 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 25 Aug 14:00 UTC: Doc Team | 30 Aug 20:00 UTC: Community Council
<ogra> ajmitch, in my last RL job i had about 5 2h meetings twice a week :)
<ajmitch> ouch :)
<ogra> yep
<ogra> ajmitch, ask \sh, he has them still :)
<JaneW> ogra: you should have enough time to recover by 20:00 ;)
* ajmitch has a RL meeting in a few minutes
<JaneW> ajmitch: enjoy
<JaneW> ogra: must last job was one meeting after the next
<JaneW> there was hardly time to work in between
<ogra> JaneW, yep
<ogra> two days a week were lost for meetings
<ogra> (and i had two other for twiddling thumbs) 
<ogra> so one for real work which was more then enough...
<ogra> (a quite boring job)
<ogra> thats why \sh does so much for motu :)
<JaneW> http://www.tonight.co.za/index.php?fArticleId=2840801&fSectionId=349&fSetId=204
<ogra> lol
<ogra> i spent my offline evening in watching sompsons and futurama while drinking scotch ;)
<ogra> simpsons even
<rob^> I'm sure Intel will release a processor called sompsons one day
<JaneW> lol, < brocktice> don't drink and root
<ogra> heh
<ogra> JaneW, hey, its ubuntu... we sudo *g*
<JaneW> ogra: yeah we used to watch every week too
<JaneW> true
<JaneW> this is a unix guy though
<ogra> to qoute my favorite sentence from the root/sudo page (Burgundavia sadly deleted) root and su is *so* 80s :)  
<ogra> but if i think about it now, it makes me feel real old ...
<cyphase> hey everyone
<cyphase> anyone here live in the San Francisco bay area?
<robitaille> cyphase: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWorldWide
<robitaille> can't remember seeing anyone from the Bay area in Ubuntu channels. (used to live there in previous life....)
<JaneW> heheh
<JaneW> night all
<ogra> night JaneW 
<Templ> Ol!
<Templ> Hi there! Ol! Buenas noches!
<cyphase> hey everyone
<seb128> hi
<mvo> hi
<mvo> no jamesh
<mvo> hi jamesh 
<jamesh> hi
<seb128> hey jamesh
<mvo> seb128: so you plan something like "lpi_add_items_with_srcpkgname()" (the function name sucks a bit)?
<seb128> right
<jamesh> I was thinking more of a "launchpad_integration_set_sourcepackagename()"
<jamesh> to be called before add_items() (or whatever)
<seb128> why 2 functions?
<mvo> yes, that sounds better 
<jamesh> well, we currently have 3 functions for adding menu items
<jamesh> one for GtkUIManager, one for plain GtkMenu style menus and one for BonoboUI
<seb128> oh, right, better than 2 variants of 3 functions
<jamesh> this way it is 1+3 functions rather than 2*3 functions
<mvo> *nod*
* jamesh does a quick impl
* mvo was about to start it too :)
* seb128 too
<mvo> hehe
<jamesh> done (but not really tested)
<seb128> waouh, that was quick
<mvo> jamesh: thanks, I'll merge it now and do some testing
<jamesh> patch-26
<JaneW> chmj: will you have a good update in the wiki by the end of today? I need to feed back to mdz
<mvo> jamesh, seb128: should we name the python module "LaunchpadIntegration"? or something else? it may look funny to call "LaunchpadIntegration.set_sourcepackagename()" 
<seb128> mvo: ups, sorry for not reply ... I've not better name. If you want something else, maybe launchpadi ou lpint ?
<cyphase> does anyone in san francisco know anything about the explosion that just happened?
<cyphase> http://www.kgoam810.com/listenlive/listenlive.pls - will have info about the explosion in SF
<cyphase> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/baycitynews/archive/2005/08/19/explosion19.DTL
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-08-28
<cyphase> hey everyone
<mitsuhiko> does anyone know who I have to ask for a very urgend shipit order?
<jbailey_> mitsuhiko, IIRC, if you email shipit@ubuntu.com, you can explain to them what you need.
<mitsuhiko> jbailey: thx. will try
<martinald> hi
<martinald> am i too late for tech board meeting?
<jbailey> martinald: No, you're early. 
<jbailey> martinald: "date --utc" is a good way to find out the current time.
<martinald> whoops. of cours
<jbailey> =)
<mvo> martinald: if you need to track different timezones frequently, gworldclock is nice as well
* ogra is preparing a .desktop file for gworldclock
<ogra> it annoys me since ages that this is missing...
<mvo> ogra++
<martinald> mvo: i'll check it out
<martinald> i can do n. american timezones instictively but european/'middle of the atlantic ones' always get me confused :)
<mvo> the UI needs some love IMO, but it's a good start
<mdz_> is MichielSikkes here?
<mvo> mdz_: he's Mitario in #ubuntu-devel
<mvo> mdz_: and he'll be around for the meeting
<mdz_> mvo: thanks
<Mitario> mdz_: hi yes, Mako told me to do it, because on the previous CC meeting they defereed me because of an incomplete CC board members
<Mitario> mdz_, mako told me to add myself to the TB meeting because my future tasks would also involve technical and maintainer-like stuff
<mdz_> Mitario: either you are applying for membership or maintainership; if you are applying for membership (as your agenda item says) then you don't need TB approval at all
<mbreit> mdz_: mako (and mark) told us to apply for membership today on tb-meeting...
<Mitario> mdz_, I'm not sure anymore what I'm applying for now. I wanted to be a member, and what I understood of mako, they would vote for my membership
<Mitario> ha mako
<mako> greetings
* Mitario is confused :)
<ogra> mdz_, it was maks call, mako will be around
<ogra> marks even
<mdz_> mako is here, but sabdfl will not be
* mvo gives his vote to Mitario 
<Mitario> heh :)
* ogra gives his vote to mvo
* mvo giggles
<ogra> (do with it what you like ;) )
<mako> shit
<mako> we can't do it today than
* mvo just gives it back
<Mitario> hmm :(
<mako> when mark suggested we put it off to today, i suspect he would, y'know be here
<mako> we don't have quorum for the cc without him
<Mitario> well I could also apply for maintainer, it was one of the tasks I was going to apply for after being member anyways
<Mitario> but i thought you need to be member for it
<mbreit> Mitario: same problem here...
* Mitario heard the MOTU need some help
<mako> yeah
<mako> i'm not sure what to tell you guys.. mark suggested we do it here but without him here we simply don't have enough people to vote as the CC
<Mitario> hmm
<Mitario> okay
<ogra> Mitario, we'll have a MOTU meeting tomorrow
<Mitario> ogra, oh, MOTU maintainers arent voted for at the TB?
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUMeeting
* Mitario thought he say something like that on the wiki
<ogra> Mitario, sure they are
<Mitario> ok :)
<ogra> but MOTUs can also sponsor your uploads...
<Mitario> true true
<Mitario> well, i'm not sure what to do now :)
<Mitario> wether to add myself to maintainercandidates or not
<mdz_> Mitario: MOTU is a separate process from membership
<ogra> do it :)
<mdz_> Mitario: you should add yourself to maintainercandidates after you have worked with MOTU long enough for others to speak on your behalf
<Mitario> mdz_, ok i'll just need to contribe some MOTU stuff first then
* Mitario primary interest on maintainer behalf was update-*
<Mitario> but I guess that's far away because it needs upload access to main then..
<mvo> Mitario: well, you contributed a lot to ubuntu already
<\sh> g'evening 
<Mitario> mvo, hmm, so what to do next :/
<mvo> I guess you are a bit of a special case, but you got my vote for MOTU and I'm more than happy to sponsor your work 
<ogra> mvo, Mitario MOTU is about showing your packaging skills
<Mitario> ogra, I'm a debian maintainer :)
<ogra> if you already have proven them that should be enough...
<ogra> Mitario, thats what i mean
<Mitario> well was actually, I orphaned the package
<Mitario> ok i'll just add myself to the list, let the TB decide
<Mitario> and if not I'll just do some unofficial MOTU for the time being
<\sh> Mitario: would be nice to have u for MOTU for some time...ajmitch and you can give us more advice for packaging and for reviewing the packages at http://siretart.tauware.de/revu :)
<Mitario> sure :)
<martinald> has the meting started?
<\sh> no
<mdz_> 2000 UTC
<\sh> 20:00 UTC
<\sh> in 47 mins
<Mitario> 45mins to go
<Mitario> oh :)
<martinald> k
<pitti> Heya
<Mitario> hi pitti 
<JaneW> hey
<pitti> mdz_: meeting now?
<\sh> g'evening jane :) so late? :)
<JaneW> \sh: sadly yes ;)
<martinald> hi
<JaneW> \sh" still it's far better than last week's 22:00 UTC..
<\sh> JaneW: hehe..:) I know :) but until today I had a really bad week starting..and it started with saturday :(
<\sh> so I'm tired :(
<JaneW> \sh" I am actually having a better week this week, the clouds have silver linings again
<Keybuk> that can go too far, when you start seeing silver linings in mushroom clouds, you need to ease back on the drugs
<mdz_> pitti: yep
<\sh> hehe
<mdz_> JaneW: so I assume sabdfl will not be joining us
* Keybuk feigns shock
<mdz_> welcome to the tech board meeting, everyone
<Keybuk> he's in SA right now, isn't he?
<JaneW> mdz_: I honestly have no idea, I didn;t even realise we were in the same country atm - till ogra said so
<mdz_> JaneW: oh, there was a rumour that you might know
<ogra>  mdz_ i assumed she was at the same meetng
<JaneW> mdz_: though he is likly to be at dinner with someone...
<mdz_> I've pinged BenC
<JaneW> I did bump into an ex-school teacher if his in the supermarket earlier though...
<martinald> hi
<mdz_> Mitario: we resolved that you don't need to be considered by TB yet, right?
<mdz_> is MoritzBreit here?
<JaneW> orga: co-incidentally he may get involved in edubuntu ^^
<mdz_> members need to appear before the CC, not the TB
<mbreit> mdz_: yes I am
<mdz_> mbreit: ^^
<Mitario> mdz_, actually, I added myself to MaintainerCandidates :) if thats fine
<Keybuk> randomly, did iwj apply yet?
<mdz_> Keybuk: I think we had an ad hoc meeting
<doko> strting the m68k port?
<mdz_> anyway, BenC is first up
<JaneW> mdz_: BTW we got all the oragne off the BreezyGoals page, but some yellow (WIP) still remains... but only under duress
<mdz_> BenC is the new kernel team lead
<mdz_> and we thought it might be nice if he were able to upload the kernel
* BenC waves
<Keybuk> will he fix upstream bug #2664? :o)
<pitti> would be pretty hard otherwise :-)
<pitti> Hi benc
<Keybuk> or is that still mjg59-land
<mdz_> Keybuk: we aren't allowed to accept bribes :-P
<BenC>  /m Keybuk I charge $100 for personal bug fixes
<Keybuk> damn
<BenC> oops
<Mez> mdz_, he did for my maintainership (lemme know ehn you ant that pint :P)
<mdz_> would anyone like to speak regarding BenC before we vote?
<Keybuk> what about fabbione threatening my life if he has to upload another kernel ever again?
<Mez> (j/k)
<jbailey> Keybuk: So is that a vote for or against benc?
<zul> Keybuk: BenC can probably do that 
<mdz_> Keybuk: that's extortion.  completely different.,
<Keybuk> ah, and that's ok is it.  *makes notes for future reference* :p
<mdz_> ok, votes?
<Keybuk> ++ from me
<mdz_> +1 here as well
<ogra> ++
<mdz_> and sabdfl is absent
<mdz_> BenC: welcome aboard
<BenC> thanks
<mdz_> BenC: what's your launchpad userid?
<BenC> like as in gpg id, or my machine login username?
<mdz_> BenC: like launchpad.net/people/foo
<BenC> launchpad.net, that's a new thing to me
<mdz_> ok, you don't seem to have one yet
<BenC> do I need to create an account on there?
<mdz_> BenC: yes, create one and then tell me what its name is later
<ogra> BenC, you should also sign the Code of Conduct there :)
<mdz_> Mitario: you're up next
<Mitario> oki
<Mitario> that's fast :)
<mdz_> Mitario: you're applying for MOTU?
<Mitario> yeah guess so, update-manager/notifier would be a longer way right?
<ogra> Mitario, MOTU is the road to main ;)
<mdz_> Mitario: MOTU would be the first step
<Mitario> oki :)
<Mitario> MOTU it is then
<mdz_> ok
* ogra would be fine with approval wrt update-* and DD experience
<mdz_> Mitario: oh, you are a DD?
<ogra> and mvo's vote as well :)
<Mitario> DM, never signed up for DD, because I got sponsored (paul van tilburg)
<mdz_> it doesn't say on your page
<mdz_> ah
<Mitario> didn't know any use for it to be DD
<Mitario> it doesn't? about BMP?
<Mitario> or which page do you mean?
<mvo> I work with Mitario for some time now and I can only recommend him
<mdz_> it doesn't say that you were a DD
<mdz_> but that's because you weren't :-)
<Mitario> precisely :)
<mdz_> mvo: Mitario has worked with you on update-manager, yes?
<\sh> mvo: we will see how many packages he will love  ;)
<mvo> mdz_: yes, we work on update-manager and update-notifier together
<Keybuk> would you recommend him for motu?
<mvo> Keybuk: yes
<\sh> but with the experience as DM he will be a good support for MOTU 
<mdz_> and ogra as well?
<\sh> +1 from me
<ogra> yup
<ogra> +1
<Keybuk> ++ from me
<mdz_> +1 based on the recommendations of mvo and ogra
<mdz_> Mitario: congratulations and welcome
<Mitario> thank you :)
<ogra> welcome Mitario 
<ogra> :)
<mdz_> Mitario: make sure you create an account in launchpad
<\sh> welcome Mitario and join #ubuntu-motu to start work...
<Mitario> mdz_, yeah it's michiel
<mvo> congrats Mitario 
<Mitario> launchpad id = michiel
<mdz_> we're now using launchpad to manage the workflow of maintainer/member processes
<mdz_> great
<Mitario> i see
<mdz_> MartinAlderson wanted to discuss the desktop theme
<ogra> Mitario, and sign the CoC :) for membership
<Mitario> ogra, already did so :)
<mdz_> is he present?
<Keybuk> martinald: ping?
<martinald> hi!
<martinald> yes.
<martinald> have you guys read the wiki page?
<mdz_> yes
<ogra> martinald, blue ? 
<ogra> *shudder*
<mdz_> Ubuntu's unique branding is important to the project
<martinald> how?
<mdz_> and the desktop artwork is part of that
<mdz_> martinald: it is part of our identity
<Keybuk> we are using clearlooks, so the way the interface works is going to be the same
<Keybuk> we've just tweaked the colours a bit
<Keybuk> http://www.netsplit.com/tmp/cl_human.png
<Keybuk> vs.
<ogra> martinald, also the ubuntu clearlooks has some usability improvements (bold bars on selected tabs) and some beautification for selected list entrys
<Keybuk> http://www.netsplit.com/tmp/cl_default.png
<mdz_> martinald: it is how ubuntu is recognized, and recognition strengthens the community
<Keybuk> (for those playing a long at home)
<martinald> i really do doubt that any user has joined ubuntu simply because of the desktop theme
<mdz_> martinald: that isn't what I said, but it's always possible :-)
<ogra> martinald, it was one reason i did (clearlooks wasnt in warty though, but the colors were attracting me too)
<martinald> well guys i have tried to get some marketing effort of the ground
<ogra> <--- lokes brown desktops very much :)
<Mez> isnt the whole color scheme based off it being "earthy" etc?
<ogra> likes even
<martinald> but it's very hard to do this when you seem to be trying to make it totally unmarketable
<mdz_> Mez: that was part of the Human concept, yes
<Keybuk> why is it "totally unmarketable" ?
<Mez> I dont particularly like th brown desktop, but it works well for ubuntu.
<mdz_> martinald: we're here to listen to you; there's no reason to be hostile
<martinald> sorry. what i mean is that brown isn't a good colour for a desktop
<mdz_> if you want to present your ideas here, we do ask that you do it rationally and calmly
<\sh> martinald: hmmm...I have some users at the company...they love the brownish theme of ubuntu...
<ogra> martinald, shipit sent out more then a million CDs, i wouldnt call that unmarketable
<martinald> it inspires nothing. blue inspires confidence and security. brown doesn't.
<mdz_> martinald: if you're interested in trying a different colour scheme, the newly formed art team is the best place to discuss it
<Mez> martinald, it's not compulsory to use the brown interface :D
<martinald> Mez, for many users they will not understand how to change it
<ogra> martinald, blue is cold and inhuman imho
<Keybuk> the reason it's brown at the moment is because _everything_else_ is blue
<mdz_> there has been both positive and negative feedback about the default colour scheme; it's largely a matter of taste
<Mez> martinald, then isnt it simplky better to help improve the documenation so they do ?
<martinald> The colour scheme is secondary to the issue of making it harder for screenshots + consistency
<ogra> you can have warm greens or reds, but blue is always cold and tehnically
* pitti did not like the brown neither at first, but now he actually does
<Keybuk> an Ubuntu desktop stands out in screenshots, photos or as you walk by the monitor, simply because of the difference of colour
<smurfix> martinald: brown mostly doesn't inspire anything because researchers in color psych have focused on primary colors :-P
<Keybuk> actually, that's not the reason it's "brown", just !blue
<\sh> Keybuk: u have something against KDE? ;)
<Keybuk> \sh: lots of things, but now is not the time or the place for them ;)
<Mez> \sh: lol 
<\sh> ok..go on?
<Mez> \sh: I have lots of things against KDE too - but i use it :P ... I think that the blue/brown difference between ubuntu and kubuntu is a good thing
<mdz_> the actual color scheme used is an art team matter that we don't need to discuss here
<Mez> ubuntu isnt the default color to make it stick out ... :D which is good :D
<martinald> sorry i shouldn't of raised the colourscheme
<ogra> martinald, the theme is the face of our distro ... most of us like it, marketing seems t work very well with it, where is the reason to change it ? 
<mdz_> the matter at hand is whether we should forego the idea of having a default theme which is unique to Ubuntu
<Keybuk> martinald: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtTeam is the wiki page of the Art Team, who will be coming up with new icons, colours and cute things
<mdz_> if I have understood correctly
<martinald> yes correctly
<martinald> correct*
<BenC> I may not have a vote, but IMO a specialized default theme is good
<martinald> it really is a pain documenting ubuntu with screenshots
<BenC> several custom themes would be even better
<mdz_> martinald: do you represent the documentation team in this opinion?
<mdz_> I haven't heard this sentiment from them before
<martinald> and this shows in the masses of documentaion with missing/no images
<Mez> dont most of the doc team use ubuntu?
<Keybuk> in which sense?  creating documentation on Ubuntu for other distributions, or using documentation created on other distributions on Ubuntu
<mdz_> Mez: yes, most of the ubuntu documentation team uses ubuntu...
<martinald> mdz_: no, there was noone on the ubuntu-doc team when i went 3 times before this meeting
<martinald> but someone in ubuntu-devel agreed
<martinald> and i am currently doing some documentation work myself
<Mez> mdz_, yes, then screenshotting for them shoudnt be a problem
<martinald> Mez: my point was that if we see a new feature in gnome 2.12
<Mez> martinald, who agreed?
<martinald> i have to upgrade to breezy which is unstable and not very good to do stable work like documnation on
<mdz_> if this is a common sentiment within the documentation team, i would like to hear more voices
<mgalvin> sorry, i just got back, screenshoots is not a problem for us, and yes most of us use ubuntu, i like the brown, its unique to ubuntu
<Mez> martinald, then let others take the screenshot - someone who breezy is working for, or download the scheme and apply it
<martinald> but if i could copy and paste the plentiful existing screenshots from gnome then i could have a start at documenting with screenshots and tweak it later when breezy is stabler
<mdz_> martinald: maybe it would help to start a discussion on the ubuntu-doc mailing list, if you're having trouble reaching people on IRC
<martinald> Mez: it raises the barrier and the ubuntu doc team is vastly understaffed at the moment imo
<mdz_> martinald: when I discussed this with the documentation team last, we agreed that it was sufficient to agree on UI and artwork deadlines in the release schedule, in order to give them time to do screenshots
<mdz_> but there was no issue with the theme at that time
<Keybuk> that deadline is about 5 weeks away now, isn't it?
<ogra_> hrm
<ogra_> martinald, but is that a reason to give up our face ? 
<martinald> it depends. do you want more documentation?
<mdz_> Keybuk: UI freeze is 2 days away
<mdz_> the artwork is more like 5 weeks
<mgalvin> the screenshots is not what is holding up any of the docs
<martinald> mgalvin: taking screenshots is boring and tedious
<Keybuk> martinald: sorry, I don't understand why you can't copy and paste the existing gnome screenshots?
* mgalvin goes to read the rest conversation since i missed most of it
<martinald> because they use the default theme
<ogra_> but is that worth giving up a well recognized branding ? 
<mdz_> of course we want more documentation, but if your position is that the human theme is a major obstacle to creating new documentation, I'm not entirely convinced
<Keybuk> which is only marginally different from the Human one
<martinald> mdz_: it's a factor in it
<Keybuk> and the screenshots could be replaced before artworkfreeze easily enough by the doc team
<martinald> keybuk: because i assume that you want screenshots that represent ubuntu
<Keybuk> during development, it doesn't really matter whether the colours are off
<mdz_> martinald: if you like, we can take a vote on this now, or we can discuss this again when we have more representation from the documentation team
<Keybuk> the doc team can fix that before release
<Mez> martinald, is it not possible to download and install the human theme?
<\sh> hmmm....the functionality is not changing with the theme, right? so documentation of the functionality has nothing to do with the theme...and the doc team could use different color/style themes
<\sh> and I think breezy is stable enough to do some doc work with it..
<mdz_> we're mostly hypothesizing here without input from more people working on documentation
<martinald> keybuk: documentation is something that should be really easy to get started on. do a page now and then leave and do some more in a few weeks
* robitaille thinks this discussion should have been done on the doc mailing list
<martinald> and documentation tends to be best done by people who are not highly technical and therefore won't want to install an unstable branch
<mgalvin> breezy is plenty stable to work on, i have been using it for weeks
<Mez> martinald, I really dont see why it;s bnot possible to download and install human
<ogra_> martinald, you know that acomplete new default icon theme is planned ? gnome screenshots will be worthless if it makes it into breezy
<Keybuk> right, but I really don't see why screenshots being blue or brown is causing a problem for people getting started on documentation?
<martinald> \sh: it reduces consistency. users will be confused to why some screenshots or blue and some are brown
<Mez> gah
<Mez> I'm off
<Mez> have fun all
<martinald> ogra_: that would be a terrible idea. i really hope that does not go through.
<ogra_> martinald, lots of people working very hard on it since before hoary...
<smurfix> Have there been any actual user problem reports about that? If so, I haven't noticed...
<mdz_> we should wrap this up.  I'm happy to defer a vote until a future meeting in order to allow time to get more input from the documentation community
<ogra_> martinald, and i actually hope we once can get rid of the dusty gnome icons
<mgalvin> martinald: even thought the screenshot are tedious, it will not take long to do if we split up the work load
<martinald> mgalvin: the documentation team is vastly understaffed. it needs to be made easier to join and contribute
<mgalvin> having unique artwork is very important and worth the extra work imho
<Keybuk> mdz_: me also, we should get the doc team and art teams in for this -- it's their area of expertise
<mgalvin> its very easy to contrib, just sumit patches
* ogra_ guesses you can do all needed screenshots for the docs in one afternoon if you know what you need
<martinald> ogra_: i would hope ubuntu would liase with gnome upstream to fix any issues with artwork instead of forking
<martinald> ogra_: i'm not denying that, but it raises the barrier to entry which is not needed
<mdz_> Keybuk: agreed
<martinald> mdz_: agreed also
<mgalvin> how is taking screenshots a barrier?
<ogra_> martinald, but the reasons you give are a bit weak in my eyes... screenshots are easily done if you have a detailed plan what you need 
<mdz_> martinald: matthew east and corey burger are good contacts for the doc team
<mdz_> martinald: let me know if you have trouble getting a discussion going
<ogra_> martinald, volvoguy and AndyFitz for the art team
<mdz_> martinald: you can reach me at mdz@ubuntu.com
<Keybuk> andy fitz-simon is a good contact for the art team
<martinald> mgalvin: as i've said twice now, screenshots are often of new features which are not in the stable build of ubuntu and it would really help if we could use existing gnome ones
<mgalvin> martinald: start up a thread on -doc, i am sure everyone would reply
<mdz_> ok, that's the end of the published agenda
<mdz_> does anyone have any other business to discuss?
<ogra_> martinald, but how should gnome shots reflect new features we develop in ubuntu ? 
<martinald> right ok i'll do that
<ogra_> mdz_, did we go over the regular maintainer candidates ? 
<martinald> ogra_: because 99% of the time gnome features are exactly the same as ubuntu and it would save time/effort
<martinald> ok thanks for discussing guys
<mdz_> ogra_: yes
* ogra_ cant remember seeing comadreja or bddebian discussed for example
<\sh> hmmm..what about mbreit?
<ogra_> \sh, CC issue
<mdz_> ogra_: they weren't on the agenda?
<\sh> mdz_: they are
<\sh> MaintainerCandidates
<ogra_> mdz_, they are on maintainer candidates
<mbreit> \sh: i thought i need to be a member first? and since mark is not here
<mdz_> they also aren't here
* sistpoty waves
<sistpoty> <- stefan Potyra
<\sh> mbreit: I read the log from last CC like that, that he agreed if you do constant work
<mdz_> ok, some people were on the main agenda while others were only on MaintainerCandidates
<mdz_> let's go down the list
<mdz_> RajasekarKarthik?
<ogra_> no idea, never sen him 
<mdz_> sistpoty: ok, you're next
<\sh> I don't know him either...
<mdz_> Stefan Potyra applying for MOTU
<ajmitch> sistpoty has a good history of contributions
<ogra_> i'd lik to see more packaging from sistpoty 
<ogra_> but his revu work is great and brought MOTU a big step forward
<mdz_> sistpoty: can you tell us about your work so far?
<mdz_> there isn't much on your wiki page
<sistpoty> about packages made?
<sistpoty> well, haven't done really many packages, rather trying to fix some things on unmetdeps... apart from that i try to concentrate on revu2
<mdz_> development work that you have done in Ubuntu
<ogra_> sistpoty, you should list even the unmet deps packages you fixed
<ogra_> its packaging work
<mdz_> what sort of work have you done on those two projects?
<\sh> sistpoty and siretart are the hard devs for revu and revu2...which is a really amazing tool and speeds up our reviewing work
<Keybuk> I'd like to see more packaging work before approving for upload
<ogra_> same here... but kudos for revu
<Keybuk> while your development work looks good, packaging can be a bit more subtle and it can take a little time to pick it up
<mdz_> sistpoty: we appreciate the work you have done on revu; it seems to be very successful
<sistpoty> thanks, got no problem with that ;)
<Keybuk> work with motu and have stuff sponsored in, and I'm sure you'll be ready in no time!
<mdz_> sistpoty: the idea of applying for MOTU membership is to participate directly in packaging work through uploads, though, and we don't have much information about that aspect of your work or your plans for it
<martinald> is it possible i could ask one thing while I'm here?
<mdz_> sistpoty: would you like to come back at some point in the future?
<sistpoty> sure... i really enjoy packaging and helping out MOTU's where i can
<mdz_> martinald: a quick question, yes; we can't get bogged down in a discussion at this point though
<martinald> is there any screenshots/more info about the OEMinstaller?
<mdz_> sistpoty: let's defer the decision for now, then
<sistpoty> mdz_: agreed
<mdz_> martinald: that would be more appropriate to ask on #ubuntu-devel; we need to continue with the meeting here
<ogra_> mdz_, JorgeDaza is already motu
<mdz_> martinald: Kamion is the best person to talk to about it, but he's away on holiday until monday
<ogra_> mdz_, (comadreja) 
<martinald> right ok thanks.
<mdz_> ogra_: ok, so we should move on to BarrydeFreese?
<ogra_> yup
<\sh> bddebian
<mdz_> I seem to recall considering him at some point in the past
<ogra_> whom i'd love to see approved avan in absence
<\sh> he can't be here because of family business...3 kids
<ogra_> even
<\sh> he did a great job during MoM 
<mdz_> has he applied for MOTU in the past?
<\sh> yes
<Keybuk> mdz_: 2005-07-26
<crimsun> yes, and he was approved
<ogra_> he did a lot of work for MOTU helps out where he can and i trust his packaging skills... he was ver patient and is in the team since quite some time (several months)
<ogra_> crimsun, nope he was deferred
<crimsun> ogra_: oh, due to absence? 
* mdz_ checks the log
<\sh> crimsun: no
<ogra_> crimsun, nope, because he felt not ready iirc
<\sh> crimsun: we wanted to see more of his packaging skills
<Keybuk> mdz_: around 10:30
<mdz_> Keybuk: yeah, skimming
<mdz_> ok, so he was deferred pending more information it looks like
<\sh> yeah
<\sh> and I uploaded a lot of stuff for him
<mdz_> and since then, you (\sh and ogra) have both been pleased with his work?
<jbailey> ogra_: When Barry takes to something, he tends to stick around with it for years.  He's been doing little jobs for a few GNU projects I'm involved with for a long time.
<ogra_> he is very anxious to do something wrong and handles all tasks very carful
<ogra_> yup
<mdz_> jbailey: so you would support him as MOTU as well?
<\sh> mdz_: he is very carefull and is asking before he is doing something wrong
<jbailey> mdz_: Yes.  He's very careful and is always good about asking for help when he gets in over his head with a problem.
* ajmitch would also support him, after working with him for a bit on MOTU work
<mdz_> Keybuk: vote?
<Keybuk> I'd like to wait until he's around, there's some stuff he said he'd be doing and I want to check what he feels about it before I decide.
<Keybuk> so I vote for defer until he's present
<jbailey> Keybuk: Might be hard for him to attend a TB meeting given the time of day.
<mdz_> it sounds like he has made a positive impression within the team since his last appearance
<ogra_> yup
<\sh> yeah...he is a team player actually I worked very good with him...
<mdz_> the official process is to appear "in person" for consideration by the TB, but we have considered others without their presence
<ogra_> i'd love to see him approved... 
<mdz_> when would it be possible for him to be present?
<mdz_> it is about time that we rotated the meeting time anyway
<mdz_> would someone get in touch with him and find out?
<jbailey> He's in Pennsylvania, so I suspect either earier for lunch or after work.
<mdz_> if he can't make it on a tuesday, we can arrange something
<jbailey> I can talk to him.
<ogra_> i think some hours earlier 
<mdz_> we can do the next meeting at 1700 UTC if that works for Keybuk and sabdfl
<Keybuk> fine for me
<mdz_> jbailey: let me know
<mdz_> next candidate is BillyAM
<ogra_> never heard of him
<\sh> I never saw him around..
<\sh> totally unknown
<mdz_> his wiki page says WickedPuppy
<mdz_> so he doesn't seem to be here
<ogra_> yup, i saw that
<\sh> i know chillywilly but not wickedpuppy
<mdz_> he says on his page that he hasn't started working on ubuntu yet
<ogra_> both doesnt ring a bell
<Keybuk> mdz_: yeah just reading that
<mdz_> he has an email address on his web page
<mdz_> ogra_: would you send him a mail and explain the process a bit?
<crimsun> I've seen him in #ubuntu-laptop and in #ubuntu assisting others, but that's it
<ogra_> yup
<mdz_> invite him to start participating first, etc.
<mdz_> ok, thanks
<mdz_> Mitario was already on the agenda earlier
<mdz_> so I think that's it
<mdz_> last call for other business
<mbreit> so what about me now?
<\sh> mdz_: topic mbreit
<mdz_> mbreit: you wrote that you were applying for membership
<mdz_> which means you need to go before the community council
<mbreit> sabdfl told me to apply for member and maintainer (motu) today..
<mdz_> rather than the technical board
<\sh> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-meeting-2005-08-16.html
<Mitario> mdz_, it was the same situation as with me
<\sh> around 4:07
<ogra_> mbreit, we cant do it here without sabdfl availyble
<mdz_> mbreit: ok, so you are in fact here to apply for MOTU then?
<mdz_> ogra_: we can
<ogra_> mbreit, but i'd be fine to approve your packagng skills in advance
<ogra_> oh
<mbreit> cool ;)
<ogra_> ok
<\sh> me as well...
<crimsun> no qualms about mbreit's packaging from me
<\sh> i think sabdfl gave his vote already when I'm reading the logs correctly...
<mbreit> he did
<slomo> you get my vote too when this counts ;)
<ajmitch> gets noisy in here once the MOTUs start voting :)
<ogra_> heh
<mdz_> to be clear, the only applicable votes are by tech board members, but any developer is welcome to provide a testimonial
<Keybuk> mbreit: what's your wiki page?
<mbreit> Keybuk: MoritzBreit
<mdz_> so it's more meaningful to talk about your experience with the candidate than simply to "vote" yes/no
<ogra_> mdz_, look at his wiki page...
<mdz_> where we don't have first-hand experience, the board relies on these testimonials
<ogra_> it speaks for itself
<mdz_> ogra_: I am looking now
<mdz_> ogra_: what is your assessment of his packaging work?
<mdz_> \sh: same question
<mdz_> have you been sponsoring his uploads?
<ogra_> very good, he asks if he doesnt know things and works well with the team
<slomo> ok... mbreit gets my vote because his packaging skills are almost perfect (i've reviewed his 2 packages) and he has done many good fixes for some stuff which all were working without problems... also he was very responsive ;)
<\sh> mdz_: what I had from him was first class...and most of the things build cleanly 
<ogra_> and he also helps out others that have questions or problems
<crimsun> I've uploaded a few of mbreit's after review as well
<ajmitch> I have been sponsoring some of his work as well, and his work has been excellent
<ogra_> and most important, he has a amd64 to testbuild ;) (kidding)
<mdz_> thanks for your input, guys
<Keybuk> mbreit: are you a DD?  or have had sponsored uploads there?
<mbreit> Keybuk: no, i am not
<mbreit> and i had not uploads to debian..
<Keybuk> weird, I can see changes to drpython and bacula with your name on them
<mdz_> perhaps the debian maintainer merged patches from ubuntu
<mbreit> Keybuk: i requested the sync on then...
<ogra_> secret utnubu work ? 
<Keybuk> ah, is elmo doing that now?
<ogra_> Keybuk, if a MOTU approves it 
<\sh> for the syncs requested by us...he puts our names on it
<Keybuk> mbreit: the "build1" on maxima today should've been "ubuntu1" -- otherwise our magic can't detect it as a local change, or keep it in sync with Debian
<\sh> Keybuk: it was only a rebuild
<ogra_> was it more the a rbuild ? 
<ogra_> rebuild even
<mbreit> no, it was just a rebuild
<ogra_> Keybuk, we dont tag rebuilds with ubuntuX versions...
<Keybuk> ah, sorry
<Keybuk> didn't spot that it was just a rebuild
<Keybuk> my bad
<Keybuk> ok, on recommendation and looking at your work so far, +1 from me
<mdz_> +1 from me as well
<mdz_> mbreit: welcome to the team
<mbreit> thanks!!!
<ogra_> YAY
<\sh> membership included? so welcome to the show:)
<mdz_> it's great to see so many qualified maintainer candidates, but I do hope we are at the end of the list for today :-)
<ogra_> we are :) 
<mdz_> workrave insists
<ogra_> except amaya shows up
<ogra_> ;)
<Keybuk> heh, I just got typing-break'd mysekf
<mdz_> ok, meeting adjourned
<mdz_> thanks, everyone
<pitti> thanks everybofy
<\sh> mdz_: we are...but I have a special question concerning shipit...if i can raise it shortly
<pitti> and congrats to the new MOTUs!
* Keybuk heads to bed to crash, it's been a long day
<pitti> night
<mdz_> \sh: shipit isn't really a tech board project
<ogra_> thanks mdz_ 
<mdz_> \sh: but I'm happy to talk about it on #-devel
<mdz_> \sh: _after_ my typing break ;-)
<\sh> mdz_: ok :) 
<\sh> whatever a typing break is? rolling a cigarette? :)
<ogra_> \sh, not for non smokers
* ogra_ doesnt even need a break from typing for that
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-08-21
<BlueT_> @shcedule
<BlueT_> @schedule
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 22 Aug 16:00: Community Council | 23 Aug 12:00: Edubuntu | 29 Aug 20:00: Technical Board | 30 Aug 20:00: Edubuntu | 31 Aug 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<BlueT_> @schedule taipei
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Asia/Taipei: 23 Aug 00:00: Community Council | 23 Aug 20:00: Edubuntu | 30 Aug 04:00: Technical Board | 31 Aug 04:00: Edubuntu | 31 Aug 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<licio> @schedule Sao_Paulo
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Sao_Paulo: 22 Aug 13:00: Community Council | 23 Aug 09:00: Edubuntu | 29 Aug 17:00: Technical Board | 30 Aug 17:00: Edubuntu | 31 Aug 12:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<DBO> @schedule detroit
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Detroit: 22 Aug 12:00: Community Council | 23 Aug 08:00: Edubuntu | 29 Aug 16:00: Technical Board | 30 Aug 16:00: Edubuntu | 31 Aug 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<Arbiter> @schedule Rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 22 Aug 18:00: Community Council | 23 Aug 14:00: Edubuntu | 29 Aug 22:00: Technical Board | 30 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 31 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 23 Aug 02:00: Community Council | 23 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 30 Aug 06:00: Technical Board | 31 Aug 06:00: Edubuntu | 01 Sep 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<Hobbsee> Arbiter: 2 am?  that's worse.
<Hobbsee> Arbiter: i'd forgotten that it was the tech board that was at 6
<nixternal> @chicago
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> @schedule chicago
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 22 Aug 11:00: Community Council | 23 Aug 07:00: Edubuntu | 29 Aug 15:00: Technical Board | 30 Aug 15:00: Edubuntu | 31 Aug 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<nixternal> thats about wakey time for me ;)
<Hobbsee> nixternal: i would stay up, but i'm not on holidays anymore.
<Hobbsee> nixternal: which makes meetings hard to get to, when they're in the middle of the night, and i've got to be alive the next day
<Hobbsee> hey jenda 
<nixternal> ya, im back to school as well, again with my old arse ;)
* jenda waves at Hobbsee & nixternal 
<nixternal> hiya jenda
* Fujitsu thinks the CC times are silly.
<Fujitsu> But then again, I'm on the wrong side of the world :P
<jenda> :-D
* jenda likes those times, but they should rotate.
<Fujitsu> They should.
<Fujitsu> 2am for every meeting isn't ideal.
<Hobbsee> jenda: they used to
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: indeed.  we australians get the bad end of the stick.
<Fujitsu> Yeah...
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: kubuntu meetings we win though - because they seem to want me there, so stick it in a time where i can be there
<Fujitsu> Heheh.
<Fujitsu> You are sort of critical to them :P
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: well...i'm only one of 6 who needs to be there - ie they can have any 3 out of those six there.
<Fujitsu> I guess.
<Hobbsee> if i've got half the agenda like usual, then yeah, i do need to be there :P
<Fujitsu> Probably!
<jenda> Fujitsu: 2 AM is a great time for a meeting :) It's just before I go to bed ;)
<Fujitsu> I'd be decapitated by my parents if I were to stay up until 3am or so!
<jenda> Is that standard procedure in australia? Amazing.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: same here.  actually, they dont get quite so annoyed now.
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: I think they've given up on trying to get you to change :)
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: point.
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: i've almost gotten around kerfew too :P
<Fujitsu> Well, I'm not exactly old :P
<Fujitsu> *curfew
<Fujitsu> Ah. I've got a librep merge to do again...
* Fujitsu jumps at the chance.
<Hobbsee> hehe.  again.
<Fujitsu> Yes.
<Fujitsu> And I've got 5 others that I did a while ago which I never bothered to request to be uploaded >_<
<Hobbsee> do they build now?
<Fujitsu> I haven't checked, but I'll do so now.
* jenda realises he really shouldn't be loitering around IRC and has RL work to do before he leaves.
<jenda> See y'all
<Fujitsu> Pfft.
<Fujitsu> Real life.
<Fujitsu> What a silly concept.
<nixternal> @time
<Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: August 21 2006, 07:53:05 - Next meeting: Community Council in 1 day
<jordi> where's og?
<raphink> in brazil I think
<raphink> :)
<jordi> great :)
<danilos> I think he's not, I think he's in USA :)
<carlos> yeah, he's in USA
<carlos> but not yet connected...
<raphink> oh ok :)
<carlos> let's wait a bit...
<GnuKemist> carlos hi
<carlos> GnuKemist: hi, Og?
<GnuKemist> carlos yup
<carlos> ok
<carlos> let's start
<GnuKemist> carlos conected from work ;)
<carlos> jordi, danilos?
<carlos> GnuKemist: hmm, I thought this time was better for you to connect from home....
<carlos> anyway, you are here ;-)
<GnuKemist> carlos hehehe
<jordi> hello
<GnuKemist> carlos I am connected from work via ssh
<carlos> I see
<GnuKemist> hi jordi 
<carlos> so
* GnuKemist is Og Maciel
<carlos> GnuKemist: We (danilos, jordi and I) had a meeting last week
<carlos> and from that meeting, we got the document I sent you
<GnuKemist> k
<carlos> we think that more or less those are the main tasks that such position should cover
* GnuKemist looking for that email
<GnuKemist> carlos and it does coincide with what I expected as well
<carlos> GnuKemist: Is there anything else you think we should add? or it's a 100% match ?
<GnuKemist> carlos it seems to be right on the money
<carlos> hmm
<carlos> then...
<carlos> GnuKemist: do you want that we explain better any part of that document before going to the Ubuntu CC with it?
<GnuKemist> carlos you followed the thread about upstream translations, right?
<GnuKemist> carlos am asking b/c I think it pretty much shows what I intend to do
<GnuKemist> carlos and is a matter of checking if that is the same direction you want to go
<carlos> GnuKemist: well, I'm a bit behind on that thread (and others) but more or less I know the problematic there
<danilos> GnuKemist: upstream coordination is just one of things to do :)
<GnuKemist> danilos right
<danilos> GnuKemist: and I wonder about what priorities would you give to each of the tasks we mentioned
<danilos> i.e. what's more important
<GnuKemist> carlos danilos I have written a few entried about translation procedures as well
<danilos> in your opinion, of course :)
<GnuKemist> danilos I think that since Edgy is right around the corner, it would be too soon to get things done the way I expect
<GnuKemist> danilos it will take a lot of meetings and flexibility to get eveyone into the same train
<GnuKemist> danilos so I would prioritize getting Rosetta to attend the users' needs
<danilos> GnuKemist: sure, I'm not talking about that short of a timeframe (we even already have set our goals for Rosetta as well)
<GnuKemist> danilos and get some SOPs for the team leaders
<GnuKemist> danilos as far as how to "run" their teams
<carlos> GnuKemist: well, is better to start planning what should be done after edgy + 1 
<GnuKemist> danilos and manuals for standardizing translations, etc
<GnuKemist> carlos sure
<carlos> because we usually plan our work a month after release 
<danilos> GnuKemist: SOPs? 
<GnuKemist> carlos I would say a boot camp with representatives from major localization teams should get together
<GnuKemist> danilos standardized operation manuals
<GnuKemist> danilos or protocoles
<carlos> hmm, that would be a good idea, not sure if it would be possible, but we could try
<danilos> GnuKemist: ok, thanks
<GnuKemist> carlos sort of along the same thing that happened in Paris
<GnuKemist> carlos but for localization
<danilos> I'm somewhat unsure about boot camp idea, it sounds impossible
<GnuKemist> carlos it is my oppinion that it is hard to properly convey ideas through emails, irc
<carlos> well, I think we talk about GNOME, KDE, GNU, OpenOffice, Firefox and Ubuntu
<GnuKemist> danilos I think you're right but I think it is worth a shot
<jordi> boot camp idea?
<jordi> I've lost that bit somewhere
<GnuKemist> carlos yes
<jordi> oh
<jordi> ok, I see it
<GnuKemist> jordi think like the meeting that took place in Paris
<danilos> jordi: you lazy bum :P
<GnuKemist> hey sfair ;)
<jordi> hey I somehow skipped that line :)
<GnuKemist> hehe
<GnuKemist> anyhow
<sfair> hi my friend GnuKemist :-) 
<carlos> GnuKemist: I'm not quite sure I agree with what you said in one of your emails: "I have a really tough "sell" to
<carlos> convince people to perform translations via Rosetta and not directly
<carlos> with the organized sub-groups such as Gnome or KDE"
<jordi> GnuKemist: I see. I think that's difficult to make it happen though
<GnuKemist> I have some great tallented people who would support me in developing some manuals, etc
<carlos> GnuKemist: we should offer them Rosetta to do translations but keep their current organization
<GnuKemist> jordi absolutely... but I'm up to the challenge
<GnuKemist> carlos I guess we could find a happy medium
<GnuKemist> carlos thus the boot camp ideia
<carlos> so they just have Rosetta as another tool to do translations
<danilos> yeah, I agree with carlos: we just need to allow for different workflows, and they will come :)
<GnuKemist> idea
<GnuKemist> what we need is to strike the right balance
<jordi> sure, but that leaves us with the merging in svn problem, calros
<carlos> and our target should be that it's so good that everyone wants to use it, but always without forcing them to switch the way they want to work
<GnuKemist> carlos absolutely right
<GnuKemist> maybe we could try a Skype-meeting
<danilos> anyway, lets not get into Rosetta future plans right now :)
<GnuKemist> danilos ok
<GnuKemist> danilos but I must tell you, this is my holy grail
<carlos> yeah, this is just a brief meeting before giving our ideas to the Ubuntu CC
<GnuKemist> ;)
<GnuKemist> I basically want to see Rosetta as the main repository for localization par to none
<carlos> GnuKemist: we too ;-)
<GnuKemist> all distros would benefit from it
<carlos> but we have a long way to reach that goal
<GnuKemist> but better yet, the global community would benefit the most
<GnuKemist> carlos +1
<GnuKemist> carlos that is why I'm in this for the long haul
<carlos> ok so, Do we agree to send that document directly to the CC ?
<GnuKemist> +1
<jordi> go for it
<danilos> sure carlos
<carlos> ok
<GnuKemist> anything you guys need from me?
<carlos> I think that's all
<carlos> thank you very much 
<carlos> let's see what the CC decides on this subjet ;-)
<GnuKemist> I for instance need to be introduced to the key people from each group
<GnuKemist> carlos danilos jordi ok... so I guess I'll go grab lunch now  ;)
<carlos> GnuKemist: ok, thanks fro comming
* GnuKemist still has 20 minutes left
<GnuKemist> carlos my pleasure
<GNAM> @schedule rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 22 Aug 18:00: Community Council | 23 Aug 14:00: Edubuntu | 29 Aug 22:00: Technical Board | 30 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 31 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-08-22
<GNAM> @schedule rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 22 Aug 18:00: Community Council | 23 Aug 14:00: Edubuntu | 29 Aug 22:00: Technical Board | 30 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 31 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<Burgundavia> @schedule vancouver
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Vancouver: 22 Aug 09:00: Community Council | 23 Aug 05:00: Edubuntu | 29 Aug 13:00: Technical Board | 30 Aug 13:00: Edubuntu | 31 Aug 08:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<GNAM> 2 month to edgy
<imbrandon> @schedule us/chicago
<imbrandon> @schedule chicago
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 22 Aug 11:00: Community Council | 23 Aug 07:00: Edubuntu | 29 Aug 15:00: Technical Board | 30 Aug 15:00: Edubuntu | 31 Aug 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<Arbiter> @schedule Europe/Rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 22 Aug 18:00: Community Council | 23 Aug 14:00: Edubuntu | 29 Aug 22:00: Technical Board | 30 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 31 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<profoX`> !time Brussels
<profoX`> (whats that command to show timezone? :)
<Mithrandir> Brussels is UTC+2
<Hobbsee> @time brussels
<Ubugtu> Current time in Europe/Brussels: August 22 2006, 16:21:02 - Next meeting: Community Council in 1 hour 38 minutes
<profoX`> oh thanks its @ :)
<profoX`> Hobbsee: I want to put a new item on the agenda, should I add it to "General Agenda Items and Proposals" on the Community Council Agenda? and create a wiki page somewhere to explain my goal?
<Hobbsee> profoX`: yeah, i'd say so
<profoX`> Hobbsee: thanks :)
<licio> @schedule Sao_Paulo
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Sao_Paulo: 22 Aug 13:00: Community Council | 23 Aug 09:00: Edubuntu | 29 Aug 17:00: Technical Board | 30 Aug 17:00: Edubuntu | 31 Aug 12:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<Arbiter> i'll be back soon
<DShepherd> are the logs availabke for the community council meeting that was schedule eariler?
<Kamion> it hasn't happened yet - it's in about half an hour
<nalioth> DShepherd: yes all this channel is logged
<nalioth> DShepherd: you can review everything that goes on here
<DShepherd> nalioth: where can i go to do that..
<DShepherd> Kamion: thanks for the info
<nalioth> DShepherd: /msg ubotu logs
<DShepherd> nalioth: 
<DShepherd> ok
<DShepherd> nalioth: thanks for that information 
<nalioth> you're welcome
<Arbiter> @schedule Rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 22 Aug 18:00: Community Council | 23 Aug 14:00: Edubuntu | 29 Aug 22:00: Technical Board | 30 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 31 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<Arbiter> phew just in time
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Community Council | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 23 Aug 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 29 Aug 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 30 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 31 Aug 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<ubuntu_demon> hi all
<carthik> hey ubuntu_demon 
<ubuntu_demon> hi carthik
<ubuntu_demon> carthik: do we know eachother ? :)
<tseliot> hi
<matthew5> hello
<carthik> ubuntu_demon, now we do :) (Was just echoing the "Hi")
<ubuntu_demon> :-D
<ubuntu_demon> hey tseliot , matthew5
<dholbach> ubuntu_demon: some people started asking for your real name :-)
<dholbach> ubuntu_demon: you keep it quite quiet :)
<Arbiter> :)
<carthik> ...and a real hackergotchi
<highvoltage> ubuntu_demon: a real hackergotchi would be nice :)
<tseliot> ubuntu_demon's real name is.... Ubuntu Demon
<dholbach> hellas jono!
<jono> hey dholbach :)
<dholbach> tseliot: I don't believe you :)
<tseliot> how come?
<matthew5> I've seen ubuntu_demon's picture...he's red
<matthew5> and likes sunglasses
<ubuntu_demon> dholbach: I was present at UDS in Paris. You might have remembered my real name ;)
<matthew5> :)
<carthik> matthew5, does he have horns and a tail too? :)
<dholbach> tseliot: and don't tell me you're T.S. Elliot :)
<simira> dholbach: Roald, his host says ;)
<matthew5> carthik, I saw the horns, can't vouch for the tail
<tseliot> Don't you know me?
<dholbach> ubuntu_demon: not everybody had the chance to see you there :)
<ubuntu_demon> highvoltage , carthik : I like my present hackergothi. I also use it on the forums. People recognize it.
<Arbiter> o.O
<tseliot> BTW is T.S. Eliot (with one "l") ;)
<NickGarvey> meeting is now right?
<tseliot> yep, I guess so
<carthik> @schedule
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: Current meeting: Community Council | 23 Aug 12:00: Edubuntu | 29 Aug 20:00: Technical Board | 30 Aug 20:00: Edubuntu | 31 Aug 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<Kamion> ok, ready to start?
<gnomefreak> NickGarvey: i dont think it started yet
<ubuntu_demon> dholbach: I prefer my privacy. There's 140.000 users on the forums. Most are very nice but some aren't (I am in no personal issues or conflicts but I'm just a bit paranoid)
<Kamion> this is a meeting for consideration of membership candidates only
<Kamion> so that we can catch up a bit
<simira> Kamion: what about the other cases?
<Kamion> other cases?
<elmo> issues
<Kamion> either we'll do them at the end, or we'll defer them to next time
<simira> ok
<Kamion> depending on how time goes
<Kamion> I get thrown out of this meeting room in two hours, AFAIK
<simira> 'nough chitchat, then
<dholbach> ubuntu_demon: that's ok with me - i was just relaying :)
<Kamion> #
<Kamion> RolandoBlanco whitesoft
<ubuntu_demon> dholbach: ;)
<Kamion> oh, we should check for quorum ...
<Kamion> mako: here?
<Kamion> sabdfl won't be making it
<mako> yes
* mako catches up
<mako> alright
<mako> membership candidates
* GnuKemist is OgMaciel
<mako> rolando is not here it seems?
<Kamion> apparently not
<mako> Kirjanov Denis
<Seveas> (Matthew Revell is already approved)
<mako> Seveas: yes :)
<mako> also, for Kirjanov Denis's future reference
<mako> the wiki page is a bit thin and the launchpad activity for the last month is not giving me a whole lot more evidence
<mako> so i think there's still some documentation work left to go
<Kamion> I agree
<Kamion> also the "solved bugs" item is in fact a support ticket
* mako nods
<mako> alright, i'll find some way to note that or communicate it to Kirjanov after the meeting
<Kamion> and the specification is just a few lines with no fleshing out in the form of a wiki page or anything
<mako> alright.. moving on.. Carthik Sharma
<carthik> mako, Hi.
<mako> carthik: go ahead
<carthik> Is it okay if I paste three lines by way of introduction?
<carthik> I (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CarthikSharma ) have triaged around 950 bugs (http://launchpad.net/people/carthik ), filed around 60, and help with the ubuntu-qa and desktop-bugs teams
<mako> carthik: please do
<carthik> I (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CarthikSharma ) have triaged around 950 bugs (http://launchpad.net/people/carthik ), filed around 60, and help with the ubuntu-qa and desktop-bugs teams
<carthik> oops
<DShepherd> the meeting has started?
<carthik> I write the Ubuntu Blog (http://ubuntu.wordpress.com ), and on the Fridge; and was the technical reviewer of Ubuntu Linux for Non Geeks, a No Starch Press publication.
* gnomefreak is +1 for carthik (im kind of in and out)
<carthik> I designed the http://ubuntu-in.org site, and am the treasurer of the LUG at UCF (http://lugatucf.org ). I try to help others on IRC whenever I can.
<Kamion> Matthew East asked me to say of carthik:
<Kamion> I've also been really impressed since Carthik joined the Fridge team, he is already a key contributor and a major part of the team with plenty of ideas and articles too. His blog shows that he will be central to the new Fridge team.
<Kamion> </end>
* Seveas starts cheerleading for carthik -- malone loves sending me mail on his behalf
<carthik> Thanks Kamion 
<sfllaw> carthik has been an essential and wonderful part of the BugSquad.
<Kamion> FWIW carthik has been very helpful on ubiquity bugs
<mako> carthik: did you do tech for the whole book?
<Kamion> +1 from me
<carthik> mako, yes
<dholbach> carthik does incredible work for the BugSquad!
<mako> carthik: stamina, cool! :)
<gnomefreak> he is a very great help with bugs :)
<jono> ntu :)
<dholbach> https://launchpad.net/people/carthik/+karma say a lot :)
<carthik> I did get paid though, so that is not really "community work", mako :)
<jono> oops
<jono> :)
<mako> jono: i was about to ask?
<jono> heh
<mako> carthik: still can be an important contribution worth considering
<mako> anyway, loads of good stuff
<seb128> carthik does a really good job on desktop bugs as well
<mako> carthik: see you around for quite a while, thrilled to have you as a member :)
<mako> carthik: where are you local to now
<carthik> Thank you, mako.
<carthik> Orlando, FL, mako
<mako> carthik: saw your timezone, thought you might be near me :)
<jono> carthik, cool I am there in late sept :)
<carthik> If anyone wants to see mickey, I might have a couch available :)
<DaSkreech> raphink: Some update (before the infamous Xbork) Borked my X
<DaSkreech> I have no errors however X will not start
<mako> i'm sure disneyworld is exactly why jono is going ;)
<carthik> jono, cool - we could do something related at UCF (univ of central florida) or just have fun. Let me know if you need local help/cheap tickets etc
<elmo> +1 from me too
<jono> mako, :P
<jono> carthik, cool :)
<Kamion> DaSkreech: please use another channel
<mako> carthik: welcome!
<profoX`> DaSkreech: #ubuntu for support
<mako> Andreas Lloyd
<DaSkreech> Whoops ;)
<dholbach> carthik: ROCK ON! :)
<Seveas> carthik, gongratulations!
<DaSkreech> Sorry finger slip
<mako> lloydinho: ?
<lloydinho> hi all!
<Kamion> ... oh, that would be the person just there to my right
<Kamion> hmm
<lloydinho> :-)
<Kamion> naturally I am morally obliged to say no ;-)
<Spec> carthik: welcome
<simira> Kamion: be nice. 
<Kamion> (kidding, obviously)
<lloydinho> I've used Ubuntu since november 2004, it is the only Linux distribution I've used. Using Ubuntu inspired me to do my master's thesis on the Ubuntu community. 
<carthik> Thanks mako, Kamion, elmo, seb128, dholbach, sfllaw, gnomefreak (woot!)
<DaSkreech> apologies all
* simira gives thumbs up for lloydinho 
<gnomefreak> congrats carthik 
<lloydinho> I am an anthropology graduate student in my final year at the University of Copenhagen, and this project has led me to a lot of other initiatives in the Ubuntu community which can be seen on my wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AndreasLloyd
<GnuKemist> congrats carthik 
<jono> carthik, /msg me if you can
<lloydinho> oh, and congrats to carthik .. :-)
<licio> carthik, welcome :)
<raphink> welcome carthik
<seb128> carthik: congra
<seb128> carthik: congrat
<ubuntu_demon> lloydinho: Was very enthousiastic on UDS. I spoke to him about his fieldwork and survey. IMHO he is a nice contribution to the Ubuntu community.
<mako> other testimonials?
<mako> someone from the doc team maybe?
<lloydinho> hey, thanks ubuntu_demon. 
<ubuntu_demon> lloydinho: np :)
<lloydinho> I forgot to bring any cheerleaders.
<Kamion> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributeToUbuntu is a nice piece of work
* simira cheers for lloydinho 
<mako> i was JUST going to say that
<mako> lloydinho: so, i assume you've seen or have worked from the participate page
<mako> lloydinho: on the ubuntu website
<nixternal> heh
<mako> lloydinho: this seems like that page on steroids.. or perhaps what that should page should be
<lloydinho> mako, I have. That was the inspiration for this ContributeDoc
<mako> which begs the question.... :)
<Kamion> access control on /participate is probably a mite too tight
<mako> i point people to the participate page probably 5-10 times a week
<mako> but we should have that page point there
<Kamion> (not that it can be different really due to how www. works)
<nixternal> CC:  let me just quickly state that Lloyd is incredibly important to documentation right now, and mdke could definitely tell you more about that. Lloyd has created a lot of cool stuff for us, including the new contribute documentation...he is a great assett to the Ubuntu community w/o a doubt!
<mako> or something
<Kamion> a link seems pretty reasonable, perhaps if ContributeToUbuntu moved to help.u.c
<lloydinho> wow. thanks nixternal .
<mako> Kamion: right, that's what i'm thinking
<nixternal> lets not forget /mystory either
<Kamion> mm, what's the story on mystory?
<Kamion> first I'd heard of that, wondering who's behind that address
<mako> lloydinho: it might be nice to think about what we can do what the participate page
<lloydinho> it's one of the marketing projects..
<nixternal> plus he has his cool specs from the Paris Summit as well with anthro that was cool
<mako> lloydinho: maybe it should get smaller with just links to various sections in the new page
<lloydinho> mako, we have discussed various ways of doing the participate page.
<mako> lloydinho: cool :)
<lloydinho> Working with Corey, I also redid the HelpingUbuntu wiki page
<Kamion> anyway; +1 for contribute page, testimonial from docteam, and it seems like a good thing to bring anthropologists into the communities they're studying on general principles :)
<mako> lloydinho: cool, i'd love to see something happen with it.. let me know and i'm happy to help you with www
<lloydinho> We couldn't really decide whether it would be best to have a short or extended version.
* mako nods to Kamion 
<mako> i'm happy to have you on board and i'm thrilled that you haven't done the whole detached outsider thing
<lloydinho> Kamion, :-)
<lloydinho> mako, that would have been boring :-)
<Kamion> HelpingUbuntu seems substantially duplicated from ContributeToUbuntu
<elmo> ack
<GnuKemist> congrats lloydinho 
<nixternal> sweet!!!   CONGRATULATIONS!!!   lloydinho ;)
<mako> of course, you find that making meaningful contributions makes it alot easier to have the community open up to you :)
<carthik> congrats lloydinho 
<lloydinho> mako, that's what I've found, certainly.
<Kamion> although it wasn't lloydinho's, I like the idea of EasyWaysToHelpUbuntu
<Seveas> lloydinho, word!
<AndreNoel> congrats lloydinho
<lloydinho> thanks all!
<Kamion> oh, who's driving launchpad today?
<ubuntu_demon> Congrats lloydinho
<mako> moving on.. Vidya Ayer
<Kamion> oh yeah, mdke sent a testimonial for lloydinho too
<svaksha> Hi All
<AlexRocha> lloydinho Congrats! :D
<svaksha> I am Vidya Ayer from India. My wiki page is, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Svaksha
<Kamion> for the record:
<Kamion> "Has contributed extremely well to the documentation team with ideas and also quite a lot of action. Again he is great to work with because of a really positive and constructive attitude. I've also seen him contribute positively to the marketing team, again providing concrete and constructive contributions."
<elmo> I'll do launchpad
<gnomefreak> Kamion: i dont think LP has updated in the past few days (not sure if its everything on LP)
* svaksha waits for go ahead
<Kamion> mdke says of svaksha:
<CypherBIOS> lloydinho: congrats... and thanks for your great work on documentation
<Kamion> "very good to work with, have come across her contributions to ubuntu-women and translation. She has recently joined the fridge team and will be an asset for us."
<Kamion> gnomefreak: I mean membership approvals
<gnomefreak> oh
<mako> svaksha: go ahead
<svaksha> Currently admin 2 lists at Linuxchix, co-wrote a Sanskrit locale with Christian Perrier (Debian) and editor at DMOZ. Having used all releases since Warty, I lurked awhile in Q1'05 and later joined the Bugsquad [https://launchpad.net/people/svaksha/+karma] , Ubuntu-Women, Marketing, Fridge, and translation teams. 
<svaksha> Ubuntu-Women is doing well with many women (and men) contributing in the community, upstream and relevant Foss arenas. Have contributed articles to Fridge nd UWN. Plan to keep the Fridge cool and well stocked with community news, events, advocacy, articles, and other sound bytes flowing in, and think it would also be advantageous to synchronise news with grass-roots marketing in the Ubuntu community. 
<svaksha> Time-permitting, hope to pitch in with tasks useful to the Motu's - packaging, testing, other technical details about Ubuntu, its relation with Debian and how they work in tandem. Have never missed an opportunity to advocate and spread the Ubuntu cheer (CD's), Ubuntu books, and my Ubuntu converts' list is aplenty with most folks giving positive feedback (almost always :-)) during follow-ups.  /End.
<jono> right, I have a meeting about the joys of CRM, later all
<svaksha> thanks mdke
<Kamion> svaksha's wiki page looks pretty solid to me, but I need to nip out for a moment before chasing up references; BRB
<simira> lloydinho: congrats
<elmo> lloydinho: you don't appear to be trying to be in ubuntu-members in launchpad?
<nixternal> heh, must have been caught up in the Ubuntu excitement ;)
<mako> svaksha: what is your current involvement with the IN loco?
<svaksha> not involved currently
<mako> is there a particular reason?
<svaksha> currently , time constraints 
<lloydinho> elmo, I just added myself this moment
<mako> i'm just kind of curious because it sounds like you had a hand setting it up
<Kamion> back
<mako> lloydinho: approved
<svaksha> yes, but its being run equally well by others
* mako nods to svaksha 
<mako> that's a good reason :)
<licio> :)
<elmo> ack for svaksha from me
<mako> alright, i'm happy with svaksha as well
<svaksha> thanks mako, elmo 
* nixternal pokes svaksha, tell them about the fridge ;)
<Kamion> yup, been following up references, and +1 from me - looks pretty impressive
<mako> is Alberto Milone around?
<tseliot> here I am
<svaksha> i did nixternal
<carthik> congrats svaksha 
<tseliot> can I begin?
<mako> tseliot: ah, you're alberto milone
<AndreNoel> congrats svaksha
<mako> tseliot: yes, go ahead
<GnuKemist> congrats svaksha 
<svaksha> thanks all
<tseliot> My name is Alberto Milone and here is my profile on Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/people/albertomilone
<tseliot> My profile on the Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Tseliot
<tseliot> My Experience and Involvement with Ubuntu
<tseliot> I have used Ubuntu since April 2005 when I tried it, loved it, left Windows and never looked back. One of the reasons for which I like Ubuntu is its forum, where I learnt most of the things that I know (thanks to all the people who were so kind to help me). I decided to pay back all the people who helped me by helping new (unexperienced) users, which all my guides
<tseliot> are thought for. As a matter of fact I try explaining as many things as possible when I write my guides so that anyone can follow them, even when dealing with topics such as the recompilation of the kernel.
<tseliot> Then I joined the Archival team on ubuntuforums.org and therefore worked on the documentation on the UDSF.
<tseliot> I have recently become a Moderator on the Ubuntu Forums (ubuntuforums.org)
<tseliot> Here is my profile on ubuntuforums.org:
<tseliot> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=19388
<tseliot> I am particularly interested in writing guides and providing support for the installation of Nvidia's proprietary drivers and for the resolution of problems with the Xserver in general (but not only).
<mako> svaksha: did you try to joint he members team?
<tseliot> A partial list of the guides I wrote can be found here:
<tseliot> http://www.albertomilone.eu/europeo/guides.html
<tseliot> OR in my profile on the Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Tseliot
<ubuntu_demon> tseliot has been very valuable to the forum staff. He's also helping a lot of people with video issues.
<tseliot> My Projects:
<tseliot> 1) My Envy script
<tseliot> Users very often need the latest Nvidia driver (which is usually available as an installer and not as a deb package). Being aware of all the lenght (and difficulty) of the procedures which installing the Nvidia driver from the installer implies I decided to make the process a bit easier for beginners (in addition to my guide about it).
<svaksha> mako: no , will apply tomorrow
<tseliot> I started a new project, which I named Envy (the Italian for Envy is "invidia"). It is a script (written in Python and packaged as a .deb file) which automates the installation of the latest Nvidia proprietary driver on Ubuntu (both Breezy and Dapper are supported). It installs all the packages needed to compile the driver and removes the restricted modules. It also offers the possibility to automatically configure the Xserve
<tseliot> You can find it on my homepage:
<tseliot> http://www.albertomilone.eu/europeo/nvidia_scripts1.html
<tseliot> and on launchpad:
<tseliot> https://launchpad.net/projects/envy
* svaksha is not well today
<tseliot> 2) Promoting Edubuntu at the University of Lecce (Italy)
<tseliot> Another project of mine is that of promoting Edubuntu at the University of Lecce. According to my plans part of my thesis (for my 2nd level degree) will be about Edubuntu and the study (and teaching) of foreign languages.
<tseliot> My Suggestions for improving Ubuntu:
<tseliot> I have proposed the following spec for Edgy Eft:
<tseliot> On Launchpad:
<tseliot> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/xserver-failover
<tseliot> A detailed explanation on the Wiki:
<tseliot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XserverFailover
<tseliot> I have also asked the opinion of the members of Ubuntuforums.org:
<tseliot> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=201128
<matthew5> and he was incredibly helpful today with confused users trying to figure out what happened when they updated X and it broke...tseliot posted a great and simple way to downgrade until the fix began populating te repos
<mako> tseliot: alright, that's a bit more than a three line introduction
* nixternal has never chatted with tseliot, and really don't know him...but his "howtos" in the ubuntu forums are excellent to say the least!  i use them quite a bit...also applied some of his howto's to various wiki docs as well concerning binary drivers
<mako> :)
<matthew5> on the forums
<GnuKemist> svaksha sorry to hear that... congrats and get some rest ;)
<tseliot> Sorry mako
<tseliot> it's my character
<tseliot> ;)
<Kamion> tseliot: from the sound of things, envy will break on any system upgrade, if it relies on having the restricted modules removed
<ubuntu_demon> +1 for tseliot
<svaksha> :)
<tseliot> Kamion: yes
<Kamion> we are normally happy to incorporate new versions of the nvidia module into dapper-updates if asked
<Kamion> infinity is the contact person for that
<tseliot> really?
<tseliot> I would be glad to help
<tseliot> I didn't know that drivers could be updated
<tseliot> where can I find infinity?
<tseliot> on launchpad?
<Kamion> it depends on the changes, but if they're targeted bug fixes, then it's possible
<Kamion> adconrad on launchpad, infinity ere on IRC
<Kamion> here
<tseliot> well, the new drivers add the support for new cards
<Seveas> tseliot, we should join forces -- I do a similar thing for ati
<tseliot> sure
<frodon> i confirm that tseliot is one the great support provider on ubuntuforums, he helps a lot of users each day and contributes to the UDSF project
<tseliot> I was thinking of plugging in an ATI card too tonight
<frodon> he's one of the great guys of the forum
<tseliot> I'm really interested in this project
<Kamion> talk to rodarvus about the xserver-failover stuff
<mako> tseliot: there are other ways of providing updated drivers in packages that will allow for upgrades
<Kamion> we already offer the safe-mode thing in gfxboot for the live CD, but it's not ideal
<rodarvus> I just noticed the spec and subscribed to it
<tseliot> mako:I didn't know that
<rodarvus> tseliot, Kamion: thanks
<Kamion> having X do it itself would be better - we didn't have time before dapper though
<tseliot> Kamion: but the failover should work on the installed ubuntu as well
<Kamion> tseliot: indeed - as I say doing it in the bootloader is obviously not ideal
<ubuntu_demon> tseliot helps lots of users on the forums and he's really valuable to the forum staff. So +1 ;)
<mako> tseliot: even if folks have to build their own drivers, they can build them as package
<tseliot> mako: this is true for ati drivers
<tseliot> mako: is it true for the nvidia driver as well?
<tseliot> and without recompiling all the restricted modules?
<Seveas> (maybe we're diverging a bit too far from the purpose of this meeting...)
<tseliot> and without removing nvidia kernel common which would cause a driver mismatch?
<mako> tseliot: yes, we, or others, can talk afterward
<tseliot> Sorry Seveas
<tseliot> Ok
<mako> tseliot: basically, while i suspect that there are better ways of doing some of those particular things
<mako> i'm happy to approve you just on support and forums activity alone
<tseliot> Thanks :-D
<ubuntu_demon> mako : great
<mako> i think i've seen you post in basically every thread i've ever gone to in the forums :)
<elmo> yeah, ack
<tseliot> mako: LOL
<GnuKemist> congrats tseliot 
<Kamion> with regard to the kernel compilation guide, /usr/src/linux is explicitly disrecommended by Linus these days - I'd suggest just using the user's home directory
<tseliot> thanks
<AndreNoel> congrats tseliot
<tseliot> Kamion: I know we should use fakeroot
<tseliot> I'll change that
<tseliot> AndreNoel: thanks
<Kamion> anyway, yeah, I'm with mako on this - I do think you should be more forthright about contacting developers with problems rather than working around them sometimes, but what you've done seems pretty good
<Kamion> so I'm happy for membership
<elmo> excuse me, I have to go and be human pack horse, brb
<Kamion> well, as well as working around them, depending :)
<tseliot> Kamion: I'd be glad to work with them
<frodon> congrats tseliot 
<tseliot> instead of working around them
<tseliot> frodon: thanks :-)
<matthew5> congrats, tseliot 
<ubuntu_demon> tseliot: congrats :)
<tseliot> matthew5: thanks and good luck
<mako> tseliot: yeah, the general takeaway is that you should probably contact the maintainer responsible for every issue you've written scripts to work around because in some situations you'll find that there's an easier solution and in others you'll find that it's a bug or something that can be fixed in the package itself :)
<tseliot> ubuntu_demon: thanks.
<tseliot> mako: ok, I'll do that
<mako> AndreNoel: you are up
<tseliot> I just didn't dare bothering them
<AndreNoel> alright
<AndreNoel> My name is Andre Noel, born and living in Brazil. Graduated from Maringa State University in Computer Science in 2005. Married since 2005.
<AndreNoel> Been involved with Open Source since 2002, and more especifically with the Brazilian community since May 2006, thanks to incentive from OgMaciel. Started as a translator for the Brazilian Team and recently being appointed as one of the administrators of the team.
<AndreNoel> I'm one of the administrators of Ubuntu Brazilian Portuguese Translators Team and I wanna help this team to grow in quantity an quality. To help in the use (and reuse) of rosetta, and in news improvements to it.
<Kamion> tseliot: we normally don't mind :-)
<mako> tseliot: the same people will get bug reports when upgrades fail :)
<tseliot> ok, got it ;)
<mako> tseliot: easier to deal with the issue up front :)
<mako> AndreNoel: why AndreNoel3?
<AndreNoel> i don't know
<AndreNoel> it was auto
<AndreNoel> it's my login on wiki
<Kamion> the auto-import-everybody-we've-heard-of thing did that sometimes
* mako nods
<CypherBIOS> mako: it's the default sugestion of Launchpad for existent wiki
<CypherBIOS> I wold like say some words about AndreNoel;
<CypherBIOS> may I?
<CypherBIOS> He is a active member of Brazilian Community, one of majoritaries translators that is working very hard to make the Ubuntu 100% tranlated for Brazilian Portuguese, and making a excelent job.
<AndreNoel> tks CypherBIOS!
<CypherBIOS> Also, he works in the Brazilian Wiki <http://wiki.ubuntubrasil.org>, making some usefull pages and Faqs, with the Brazilian Documentation Team.
<GnuKemist> mako elmo Kamion AndreNoel has become a very important part for the administration of the brazilian team as well as the community as a whole.  He is genuinely interested in bringing Ubuntu to the brazilian masses with a 100% translated system and has become extremelly active advocating Linux in his community.  I completely stand behind his candidacy.
<AndreNoel> tks GnuKemist
<CypherBIOS> Your work (AndreNoel) extends to the mailling lists, where he help and guide much users and new translators
<GnuKemist> AndreNoel you deserve it my friend
<AlexRocha> I agree with what CypherBIOS and GnuKemist said
<sfair> as a member of Brasiliam Documentation Team +1 for opinions about AndreNoel
<mako> ok.. lots of translations
<AndreNoel> tks AlexRocha and sfair
<mako> i'm happy with membership based on translations testimonials
<CypherBIOS> AndreNoel: somebody forgot something? AndreNoel is a autor of Brazilian Ubuntu Planet
<AndreNoel> hehe
<GnuKemist> ;)
<AndreNoel> recently listed on topcontributors
<AndreNoel> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+topcontributors
<GnuKemist> mako he goes beyond just performing translations, but also spends a lot of his time sharing his knowledge with volunteers
<CypherBIOS> yep, one of Top Contribuitors in Launchpad too
<mako> alright: Kamion, elmo ?
<Kamion> seems to be well above the level we normally require from translators
<Kamion> so +1 from me
<AndreNoel> :)
<Kamion> (and obviously coordination types are always welcome)
<Kamion> thanks for your attested work there
<AndreNoel> thank you
<GnuKemist> Kamion and he is really good at coordinating
<bit_doidao> mako and all, i confirm the good job of AndreNoel :)
<AndreNoel> tks bit
<mako> #
<mako> LorenzoVillani Arbiter
<mako> you're up
<Arbiter> it's me
<Arbiter> Hi i'm Lorenzo Villani and I use ubuntu since version 5.04.
<Arbiter> After trying Ubuntu I immediately loved it. Awesome community, awesome technical choices and clear development-model.
<Arbiter> I'm now helping by doing some packaging stuff, translation work and I help new users to get into the Ubuntu (and Linux) world.
<Arbiter> I'm also spreading the work about Ubuntu (and Linux in general) here in Florence.
<Arbiter> Packages i've made: colorscheme, agave, kdocker - working: libgimp-cil, debian-servicemenu, attach-to-email-servicemenu
<Arbiter> Translation work is listed at: https://launchpad.net/people/arbiter/+translations
<Arbiter> My future plans are to become firstly an Ubuntu Member (that's why I'm here ;-) ), then a MOTU and (why not?) a Core-Dev :)
<Arbiter> ...and improve kubuntu and make the PackageCandidates list shorter and become part of the Italian LoCo Team (currently waiting for approvation) :)
<mako> Arbiter: how long have you been working on packages?
<GnuKemist> mako, what is the outcome for AndreNoel?
<Seveas> GnuKemist, elmo isn't back yet so still 'pending'
<GnuKemist> Seveas gotcha
<Arbiter> two months as far as i remember
<mako> GnuKemist: waiting for elmo?
<elmo> sorry
<mako> Arbiter: that's the bare minimum of what i'd like to see for demonstration of a sustained contribution
<mako> Arbiter: for membership of course
<elmo> ack from me for AndreNoel 
<GnuKemist> AndreNoel congrats!!!
<Arbiter> mako: my translation work is more than my packaging work
<AndreNoel> tks elmo
<Gloubiboulga> Arbiter has done a good job on packages, and I really appreciate the fact that he wants to reduce the PackageCandidates page :)
<mako> right
<AlexRocha> AndreNoel Congrats! :D
<AndreNoel> tks friends
<tseliot> Congrats
<Arbiter> i've started making packages a short time ago...
<CypherBIOS> AndreNoel: congrats my friend!
* GnuKemist back to work
<bit_doidao> AndreNoel, very well! congrats!
<Riddell> Arbiter: what plans do you have to improve kubuntu?
<bit_doidao> CypherBIOS, good work on AptOnCd! im just leraning python with it :)
<Arbiter> Riddell: at first: there are a lots of packages in Kubuntu Candidates
<Arbiter> (for universe)
<Arbiter> i want to make them and get them into universe as soon as possible
<mako> i'm not sure my personal threshold has been reached by the information linked to from the wiki alone
<mako> are there testimonials here for Arbiter 
<Riddell> Arbiter: cool, give us a ping on #kubuntu-devel if there's stuff to be reviewed
<Arbiter> my plan is to become a kubuntu-member too
<mako> Arbiter: membership doesn't need to proceed major contributions
<mako> Arbiter: and in fact, shouldn't
<mako> it's the other way around
<mako> Arbiter: unless there are people we know here who will give testimonials, i think we should pass this week
<Arbiter> Gloubiboulga?
* Kamion accepts kdocker into universe
<mako> Kamion: :)
* bit_doidao is preparing some works and tutorials for candidate for membership. on the right time. :)
<Kamion> I guess one of your links just became out of date ;)
<Arbiter> Kamion: heh :D
<mako> Arbiter: want to wait until for hte next meeting or so? we've go to wrap up
<Gloubiboulga> Arbiter, yep, I wrote a few words already :)
<mako> i set this as a 1h meeting :)
<Arbiter> mako: Gloubiboulga is my only testimonial
<mako> which is now into its 68th meetiinute :)
<Arbiter> Hobbsee has gone to bed... so...
<Kamion> I don't really have a strong opinion - I think Arbiter's making pretty good progress
* mako nods to Kamion 
<mako> in fairness to others, i'd really like to see a couple testimonials from people who have worked with him, reviewed packages
<Gloubiboulga> mako, I did
<mako> Gloubiboulga: are you the only one?
<Gloubiboulga> mako, the only one present here I guess
<Arbiter> others were bddebian and sistpoty iirc
<Arbiter> plus Hobbsee
<mako> Gloubiboulga: i'm not ignoring you, i appreciate your comments :)
<mako> Arbiter: even emailed testimonials would be good
<Gloubiboulga> mako, his work on packages was really good, and het get 3 packages uploaded quite quickly
<simira> bddebian is online and active
<Gloubiboulga> hello bddebian :)
<Arbiter> :)
<bddebian> Howdy folks
<mako> bddebian: hi, we're talking about Arbiter's application for membership
<mako> i'd really like to touch on the other candidates
<mako> i am already 15 minutes for another appointment and want to give everyone a chance
<mako> can we move on for a second?
<mako> matthew5: can you go quickly?
<Arbiter> no problem for me
<matthew5> I'll try
<matthew5> Here's a short bil
<matthew5> bio
<bddebian> Well he has been active on REVU
<mako> Arbiter: cool, thanks for being patient
<matthew5> I am a writer by trade, currently working on a self-funded research project in Morocco looking at Moroccan Arabic humor and how it reveals culture. I have a degree from the University of Arizona in Education and Social Sciences and have never worked in a tech-related field. I have been a teacher, a language school administrator, and done a ton of other stuff as well. I'm 36, married with 3 kids. My Ubuntu experien
<matthew5> ce began in April 2005 when I bought a linux magazine with a Hoary cd in it. I set up a dual boot with WinXP and found myself using Ubuntu about 95% of the time within a couple of weeks.
<matthew5> I had lots of questions at the beginning and got help for all of them in the Ubuntu Forums. As time passed I noticed others asking similar questions or questions about things I had just figured out so I started answering them as a way to give back to the community. I was asked to be a part of the forum staff, and while I was honored I turned down the offer the first time as I didn't feel like I had learned enough 
<matthew5> to be really helpful. Time passed and I continued to try to help when and where I could feeling like I had received so much at no cost to myself I should give something back. I was asked again to join the staff and was convinced. That was in March 2006. The rest is in my wiki and launchpad pages.
<matthew5> sorry, more than 3 lines...
<tseliot> Matthew is a very active member and a very diplomatic moderator of ubuntuforums.org. He manages to keep the tension low and avoid flamewars (a great gift indeed). He is a real peace maker ;)
<matthew5> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Matthew5
<ubuntu_demon> matthew5: has been really valuable to the forum staff. He also helps a lot of users on the forums. +1
<matthew5> https://launchpad.net/people/matthelmke
<Kamion> matthew5: in dapper you shouldn't need vga=771 any more, we hope
<mako> any other testimonials for matthew5?
<matthew5> I don't. I should update that
<Kamion> (since we changed the default console resolution)
<matthew5> I did for hoary and breezy, thoug
<matthew5> though
<tseliot> frodon?
<Kamion> so the non-forums contributions are a bit light, but being invited to join staff clearly indicates you were being useful on the forums :)
<matthew5> I freely admit the non-forums contribs are few
<matthew5> I hope I've been a bit helpful on the forums, though
<matthew5> I try
<tseliot> Kamion: he is an invaluable help on the forum
<ubuntu_demon> I agree with tseliot
<Kamion> matthew5: yep, not a criticism, just a comment
<matthew5> Kamion, that's how I took it :)
<mako> the forums contributions are impressive
<mako> you've got my support for membershi
<matthew5> thank you
<elmo> yeah, ack
<ubuntu_demon> I gotta go
<ubuntu_demon> sorry guys
<matthew5> elmo, thanks
<mako> alright then :)
<tseliot> ubuntu_demon: bye
<bddebian> mako: +1 for Arbiter from me.  He has several packages sitting on review.  I unfortunately have only had a chance to review a couple so far as we are behind on reviewing but seem to be well done.
<mako> NealBussett ?
<Kamion> +1 for matthew5, after following up on forums contributions
<matthew5> Kamion, thank you
<mako> alright
<mako> Ahmad Muammar ''y3dips''?
<mako> alright then
<mako> that's the list
<mako> thanks folks for showing up.. 
<mako> Arbiter: still around?
<Arbiter> yeah
<Arbiter> reading
<Arbiter> :)
<Arbiter> thanks bddebian && Gloubiboulga :)
<mako> Arbiter: personally, i'd feel better if we waited until the next meeting..
<Arbiter> no problem :)
<mako> Arbiter: you've done lots of good work though, and i don't feel too strongly 
<mako> Arbiter: so if there's a rush, we can do it now
<mako> Arbiter: cool then, lets put you first for the next meeting :)
<mako> Arbiter: and see if we can scare up a couple more testimonials
<Arbiter> heh :D
<mako> Arbiter: cool, see you next time :)
<mako> elmo, Kamion: and you two as well
<Seveas> mako, when will 'next time' be?
<Arbiter> see you too mako :)
<mako> two weeks from today?
<elmo> two weeks from today - time to be determined
<Seveas> can I suggest doing it a bit early
<mako> earlier in the day?
<Seveas> yes
<mako> that's fine.. but if we go too much ealier, i won't be able to make it
<mako> like more than 4-5h
<Seveas> the past few meetings have been unfair to nz/au
<mako> we can also go much later
<elmo> sabdfl won't be around
<elmo> so it'll need to be us 3 again
<Arbiter> can the CC be at the same hour of this one? :)
<mako> if sabdfl doesn't konw he can be there, we should plan it so that i can be there
<elmo> but anytime (up until about 1am UTC is fine by me)
<gnomefreak> what about 1800 utc?
<elmo> (and from about 5am UTC)
<Seveas> @now melbourne
<Ubugtu> Current time in Australia/Melbourne: August 23 2006, 03:32:53 - Current meeting: Community Council
<mako> Arbiter: we could even do 20UTC
<mako> or 21UTC
<Kamion> ditto elmo although I'd find 5am UTC pretty unpleasant
<Seveas> late utc would be early AU, might work as well
<Kamion> 1am is fine as long as it doesn't go on too long
<mako> ok. lets do 21UTC then
<gnomefreak> im trying to think when the kubuntu meetings are i know they are right around 4pm est
<mako> or even 22UTC
<Seveas> 22UTC would be 8am
<Seveas> might be better than 21 ;)
<mako> that sounds reasonable
<Kamion> ok
<mako> ok, 22UTC two weeks from today
* Seveas will edit the wikipage
<mako> Seveas: going to remove approved candidates?
<gnomefreak> the 5th at 22utc?
<Seveas> move to 'approved' ;)
<elmo> oh, talking of candidates
<Riddell> gnomefreak: 21UTC usually
<elmo> we should probably trim the LP list
<elmo> and just remove anyone who's been on there > 2 months
<elmo> does that sound reasonable?
<Seveas> it does to me
<gnomefreak> Riddell: yeah and hobbsee complains its too early ;) lol
<Kamion> yes
<Kamion> they can always reapply
<elmo> ok
<Arbiter> mako: i don't need to paste my intro next time, right? :D
<gnomefreak> why not get the people to back you by emailing one of the CC
<Kamion> I'd prefer that just be a fallback option in case people can't make it to the meeting - it gets hard to track otherwise
<Kamion> though I don't mind it if people can't make it
<mako> gnomefreak: they can email community-council
<mako> then it goes to everyone
<gnomefreak> oh
<Seveas> urgh -- wiki being dog-slow :/
<elmo> there's a lot of people subscribed to cc agenda that slows it down
<Seveas> all pages are slow 
<Seveas> anyway -- edit done. I alos added the date-people-added-themselves to all member candidates and locoteams
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 23 Aug 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 29 Aug 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 30 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 31 Aug 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<profoX`> @schedule Brussels
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Brussels: 23 Aug 14:00: Edubuntu | 29 Aug 22:00: Technical Board | 30 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 31 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 23 Aug 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 29 Aug 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 30 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 31 Aug 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Sep 22:00 UTC: Community Council
<profoX`> Are the topics on the technical board meeting open for everyone to talk about? I added an item to the agenda and of course I'd like to defend it next meeting.
<Lure> profoX`: yes, TB is open for everyone
<profoX`> Lure: ok, cool
<profoX`> (thanks)
<Sergi0> 
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-08-23
<Arbiter> @schedule Rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 23 Aug 14:00: Edubuntu | 29 Aug 22:00: Technical Board | 30 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 31 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 06 Sep 00:00: Community Council
<Arbiter> -.-'
<RichEd> hi
<willvdl> ola
<RichEd> check this out
<RichEd> @now
<Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: August 23 2006, 10:36:07 - Next meeting: Edubuntu in 1 hour 23 minutes
<RichEd> @ now johannesburg
<Ubugtu> Current time in Africa/Johannesburg: August 23 2006, 12:36:15 - Next meeting: Edubuntu in 1 hour 23 minutes
<RichEd> @now johannesburg
<Ubugtu> Current time in Africa/Johannesburg: August 23 2006, 12:36:24 - Next meeting: Edubuntu in 1 hour 23 minutes
<RichEd> @schedule
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 23 Aug 12:00: Edubuntu | 29 Aug 20:00: Technical Board | 30 Aug 20:00: Edubuntu | 31 Aug 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Sep 22:00: Community Council
<RichEd> @schedule johannesburg
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Africa/Johannesburg: 23 Aug 14:00: Edubuntu | 29 Aug 22:00: Technical Board | 30 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 31 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 06 Sep 00:00: Community Council
<RichEd> see :)
<willvdl> ooh
<willvdl> v cool
<willvdl> only refers to the channel you're in no doubt
<RichEd> thexy & thimple !
<RichEd> i think @now may work elsewhere
<RichEd> @schedule is set up for the meeting channel
<willvdl> ah
<willvdl> thanks
<willvdl> know any more tricks
* willvdl sits up on hind legs
<RichEd> that's all i know for now here :)
* RichEd gets back to #edubuntu email .. see you here later
<rodarvus> @now Berlin
<Ubugtu> Current time in Europe/Berlin: August 23 2006, 12:52:24 - Next meeting: Edubuntu in 1 hour 7 minutes
<rodarvus> oh
<ogra> right after lunch :)
<Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 23 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 30 Aug 06:00: Technical Board | 31 Aug 06:00: Edubuntu | 01 Sep 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 06 Sep 08:00: Community Council
<GNAM> @schedule rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 23 Aug 14:00: Edubuntu | 29 Aug 22:00: Technical Board | 30 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 31 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 06 Sep 00:00: Community Council
<GNAM> EDUBUNTU!
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 29 Aug 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 30 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 31 Aug 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Sep 22:00 UTC: Community Council
<RichEd> hello ... who do we have here and active today ?
<RichEd> ( given that dev guys are sprinting )
<RichEd> hi willvdl 
<willvdl> ola all
<ogra> rodarvus is sitting in a talk behind me ...
<ogra> i think he'll join us a bit later
<highvoltage> ola
<willvdl> highvoltage, hows it going?
<pips1> hullo
<ogra> i can give a short tech update, but will have to vanish later again
<RichEd> f.y.i. I am not feeling great again ... I thought I shook this bug off yesterday ... but am rapidly going downhill again :(
<highvoltage> willvdl: good
<RichEd> so a short meeting on urgent issues would suit me well
<RichEd> ogra ... do you want to kick off ?
* pips1 hands RichEd a warm scarf
<ogra> ok, quick tech update ... we have local device support in the most recent ltsp packages ...
<RichEd> good news :) well done !
<ogra> i'm just shaking out the last small issues, but whats there should work already
<willvdl> groovy
<ogra> the CDs are still oversized ... since we inherited the addition of the whole mono stack, fspot and tomboy from ubuntu
<ogra> i'll need to sort that out ...
<highvoltage> eek
<highvoltage> ogra: how much?
<ogra> knot-2 is planned for next week and i hope to have the autoconfiguration of dhcpd.conf in there so we'll need no more manual steps after install then
<cbx33> oooh cool
<cbx33> brb5
<ogra> i cant do much spec work today since we're supposed to have a bugday over here 
<ogra> (which is somewhat ... umm .. odd, i didnt plan to loose one day for working on bugs instead of specs ...)
<ogra> the sabayon bug tat prevents it from being used on thin clients seems fixed ... i closed it ...
<ogra> thats all from my side ...
<ogra> any questions ? 
<highvoltage> by how much is the cd oversized?
<ogra> we're at 716Mb
<ogra> dropping mono and its apps will gain use 10-12Mb
<ogra> that means we'll keep gthumb for photo collection management though ...
<ogra> instead of switching to shiny f-spot
<highvoltage> ogra, Laserjock isn't here, but do you perhaps know what happened with the dynamic menu's?
<ogra> see the specs ...
<ogra> oh, right
<ogra> mdz asked everyone of us to do a personal speclist ...
<ogra> mine includes:
<ogra> - dhcpd.conf autogeneration
<ogra> - thin-client-local-dev
<ogra> - fuly-automatic-swapserver
<ogra> - ltsp-login-and-session-handling
<ogra> - SCP-completion 
<ogra> in that priority order
<ogra> so things i dont make during the next two weeks will get dropped from bottom to top ...
<cbx33> SCP is getting there
<ogra> (its his prio list)
<ogra> all other specs are deferred to edgy+1
<cbx33> does that mean dyn menusn are dropped?
<ogra> ay other questions ? 
<ogra> yes
<cbx33> fior edgy?
* highvoltage wishes hard for the swapserver
* cbx33 wishes for edgy + 1
<cbx33> :p
<ogra> the sabayon implementation simply doesnt offer merging profiles in a sane way
<cbx33> right
<ogra> and thats what the spec targets
<cbx33> right 
<cbx33> and we're pretty close to deadline now really
<ogra> the spec should be redone as an alacarte enhancement or so
<cbx33> so will SCP get completed
<cbx33> as I see it's bottom of your list
<ogra> right
<ogra> i ave to work top to bottom through them
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> did you get my message about meeting up earlier
<ogra> but rodarvus will care for the swapserver, should be done this week
<cbx33> nice
<ogra> i'll care for the dhcpd.conf stuff asap
<cbx33> ogra, I'm sure I can sort out a lot of the leg work on SCP
<cbx33> but I need a little guidence in some areas, hence y I wanted to chat to you
<ogra> so only the session handling isnt safe yet and i'll indeed look at SCP 
<cbx33> ;P
<ogra> but i consider them both as important things
<cbx33> good good
<ogra> o your SCP work will at least get into the package we have ...
<cbx33> ok cool
<ogra> even i cant promise we'll be ready to ship it on the CD 
<cbx33> I'm just trying my hardest to make the spec complete
<pygi> cbx33, what do we lack atm?
<ogra> (the security review can take quite long for example)
<cbx33> pygi, um, I did the execute/kill dbus
<ogra> so it migh pass feature freeze for main 
<cbx33> I'm just looking at the plugin framework
<pygi> cbx33, that should be trivial
<ogra> right
<cbx33> pygi, sure
<cbx33> I just wanted to check a few tings, still being a relatively python n00b
<ogra> as long as you keep tight to the spec with the plugin stuff, its just: source all python files from one dir and export the USER_LIST variable 
<cbx33> as ogra said the VNC stuff is complete, it's just the client config stuff
<ogra> right
<cbx33> ogra, which is what I was goign to do
<ogra> and that wil take some time 
<jsgotangco> hi
<cbx33> just needed some guidence from someone on some issues
<ogra> i'm also not sure how the speed of that will look
<cbx33> pygi or ogra got some time later for a chat?
<ogra> i can try to, but i'm currently very swamped
<highvoltage> hi jsgotangco 
<cbx33> ok, how about you pygi ?
<ogra> (and shoudnt work on "low prio" specs)
<jsgotangco> :D
<cbx33> ogra, that's why I've been trying to get things done, WOO
<pygi> cbx33, fighting with libburn, will try to find time for you
<cbx33> With Out Ogra :p
<jsgotangco> ogra: for great justice!
<cbx33> pygi, thanks it'll be later on
<cbx33> well I'm pleased I finally got the implementation of SCP dbus right
<ogra> cbx33, you rock, did i tell you that ? :)
<cbx33> sorry for the misunderstanding ogra
<cbx33> thanks ogra 
<ogra> really :)
<cbx33> maybe a bout 5 degrees devieance from the vertical
<cbx33> you rock like 90 degreees man :p
<ogra> nah 
<cbx33> Documentation ?
<ogra> i just try to keep my job :P
<cbx33> heh
<RichEd> ogra: you're secure in that :) more info from me on that later
<ogra> nice :)
* cbx33 makes a note to minute that.........cbx33 rocks.....ogra....said...so
<cbx33> heheh
<highvoltage> heh. i like that song
<ogra> cbx33, put it in red letters, i really mean it :)
<ogra> (and in bold ones)
<cbx33> heheh
<jsgotangco> RichEd: please tell me that too ;)
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: as if you need to hear it! :)
<ogra> ok, if there are no further questions, i'm done with tech 
<willvdl> come on, group hug!
<ogra> (lets move on to release RichEd )
* highvoltage group hug
<RichEd> jsgotangco: old job or new one or part time one ;)
<cbx33> Docu
* ogra hugs the group
* cbx33 hugs everyone
<ogra> oh, one thing ...
* RichEd keeps lurgy away from group hug
<jsgotangco> RichEd: i dunno everything is in flux at the moment
<jsgotangco> male bonding ewww
<ogra> willvdl, what would you think taking over mailing list maintenance ? 
<ogra> *think about
<willvdl> what's involved?
<RichEd> jsgotangco: flux is good ... instability = opportunity for change
<cbx33> ogra, do yo ustill want me to spam kill?
<ogra> cbx33, sure
<cbx33> ok cool
<cbx33> right I have to go guys......
<highvoltage> bye cbx33 
<cbx33> I'll catch up later on
<ogra> willvdl, moderating mails that come from unsubscribed users, and maintaining the spamfilter
<willvdl> ciao
<cbx33> and hopefully speak to pygi or ogra about SCP
<RichEd> cheers cbx33 : hope you find the bug ;)
<willvdl> ah. can do.
<cbx33> Thanks RichEd 
<jsgotangco> RichEd: sure i just hope everything gets clearer sooner
<ogra> willvdl, great, i'll approach you after the sprint and we can sort that ...
<ogra> now i'm really done with tech :)
<willvdl> I love SPAM
* ogra hands the mic back to RichEd 
<highvoltage> hedgemadge said something about finishing a bunch of docs? anyone know where I could find it?
<RichEd> thanks ogra: okay ... high level stuff
<RichEd> 1. Armenian OEM has won a World Bank Education bid and has 1,200 computers with Ubuntu running at schools in Armenia.
<RichEd> We'll be doing a case study on this. Intel OEM partner. Will be circulated in multiple audiences by multiple organisations.
<pygi> highvoltage, I  know, after lunch :)
<highvoltage> ko
<ogra> wow, nice
<RichEd> World Bank is a nice reference :)
<RichEd> Intel is bonding closer with us.
<willvdl> I like number 1
<RichEd> onto #2 - this is income bearing and job security for ogra
<pips1> great news
<highvoltage> RichEd: ubuntu, or edubuntu?
<RichEd> highvoltage: Ubuntu ... we'll mine into desktops as we move forwards
<RichEd> 2. Eurolinux distance learning project proposal under the European Commission has been approved. We are involved with the server (Edubuntu) and other areas. Ogra on Technical and Richard to Project Manage. The project has a wide participation, with educators & some very well qualifed people from our target audience. It will help us with direction.
<RichEd> <quote>
<RichEd> i) Development of tools, by the leading global provider of free Linux software (Canonical) and the pedagogical approaches by the higher education institutions.
<RichEd> <endquote>
<RichEd> :)
<RichEd> so we'll lose some of ogra's time, but the output will be a server & pedagogical match
<RichEd> which is a good end-to-end solution
<willvdl> how will that work RichEd?
<willvdl> the pedagogical mathch that is
<RichEd> the study is as follows .. let me get summary ...
<RichEd> paste flood warning :)
<RichEd> EduLinux is going to investigate the possibilities offered by distance learning in different learning groups, such as secondary education pupils, university students, adult learners and workers in enterprises.
<RichEd> To achieve this aim, the project will be developed in parallel in two actions. Technically, with the development of a Free and Open Source Server based on Linux, which is going to offer a lot of advantages (user friendly environment, flexibility, free and open source, possibility of extension or modification) and pedagogically with the creation of the necessary didactical approaches for the implementation, taking into account the
<RichEd>  special needs of these learning groups.
<RichEd> The partnership which includes a wide range of institutions such as, secondary, higher and adult education, training and consultant centres for SMEs, training association will facilitate the application of the activities in the above mentioned learning groups.
* willvdl taps RichEd's Early Warning System
<RichEd> And as we know, European Commission funds many country level projects ...
<RichEd> So if this produces a good blueprint ... it may go hand in hand with other requests for funding.
<RichEd> i.e. where people apply to EC for h/w & s/w & training & implementation solution
<RichEd> They may say," here's the money, follow the recipe".
<willvdl> does EduLinux tap into any similar existing UNESCO work?
<RichEd> And then we are in as an ingredient.
<RichEd> Just got the news Will ... we can look for crossover links when I get more info. 1st practical meeting in Poland October.
* RichEd and ogra will need to polish our Polish
<willvdl> heh
<willvdl> shave his head
<RichEd> Note that the CV's of the participants are around 3 degrees each ... so we are in esteemed company
<highvoltage> wow
<RichEd> Any more questions on that topic ?
<willvdl> still absorbing the full extent of the paste flood
<willvdl> sounds huge
<RichEd> AS a final comment, Canonical is being paid for a chunk of time for ogra. So this helps us with Canonical moving towards self-sufficiency.
<RichEd> Not bad for a "funded side-bar project" moving towards income bearing within 12-18 months from conception. :)
<highvoltage> cool, we have a similar model with our company :)
<RichEd> moving on to the last item ... #3 of 3
<RichEd> 3. All Canonical division heads are preparing a 1 year plan. Deadline 30 August, followed by individual reviews by Mark over September. I'm responsible for Education. I will get input from necessary people and share what I can when done at Edubuntu meetings. (Before and after review).
<RichEd> <quote>
<RichEd> Considerable effort will be required to to establish and then maintain this plan. It is our goal to update this plan once a year and seek to achieve our goals within a 3 - 5 year period.
<RichEd> <endquote>
<pips1> re EduLinux news: very promising
<RichEd> This will give you all some idea of the priorities from a higher level.
<RichEd> *** Note about all of the above, that the deals are done, but not for singing wildly from rooftops.
<RichEd> Please wait for official engaments & PRO stuff.
<pips1> oki
<RichEd> So the good news about 3 is that we are now seen as offical division from a Canonical Company Perspective.
<RichEd> Mark has 7 heads report into him. I am one of these.
<RichEd> So we have the attention of the man who steers the rudder, and approves the resources & costs.
<RichEd> We need to show how Education will add value to Canonical.
<RichEd> Note that this is not the same as bringing in direct income  ...
<RichEd> If we help with market confidence and adoption in education, it will help Ubuntu into income bearing work ...
<RichEd> So value is not financial only, but adding to the bigger picture.
<RichEd> e.g. if we win as above, Armenian schools, we (1) impress the Armenian Government for future Ubuntu consideration
<RichEd> And we help breed school-leavers on Open Source ...
<pygi> RichEd, you should take over Croatian schools :) Considering the goverment decided they'll switch entire gov. and shools to Linux :)
<jsgotangco> hmm
<RichEd> Which knowledge & understanding they will take into their jobs & companies ...
<RichEd> And of course, it is our flavour of Open Source ... so good for the cause, and good for us.
* RichEd asks jsgotangco  to unwarp that hmmmm into more comment
<RichEd> unwrap even :P
<RichEd> pygi: send me details ... even press / comment
<pygi> RichEd, understood :) Press is in croatian tho :P
<RichEd> We have a powerful marketing and handshake team growing at head office. They do visits to regions and governments.
<willvdl> pygi, and on newsforge
<RichEd> by pygi do you read croation ?
<pygi> willvdl, and slashdot :)
<RichEd> 'cos i can see that you can type in english ;)
<pygi> RichEd, I am from Croatia :)
<pygi> RichEd, really? wow :)
<RichEd> --- that's all from me then ----
<jsgotangco> RichEd: it looks to complicated to me I am just a simple user with simple needs from my end
<pips1> re market confidence: government officials might think positively about floss, but the majority of "normal people" still think that linux is for geeks only. I think the "success stories from real labs" are needed to succeed
<willvdl> pipsl, we want to draw up case studies
<RichEd> pips1: I agree ... and govt. FLOSS is still in theory ideals only ... when we have case studies they can follow, real projects will emerge
<willvdl> that can be used as marketing material/usage database etc.
<RichEd> but if the schools & kids can use open source, then their techies have less excuses :)
<RichEd> Well I am done ... and I see ogra has been disconnected. Anything else from anyone ?
<highvoltage> yes
<RichEd> highvoltage: ?
<highvoltage> previously, pips1 wanted to do the Edubuntu website
<highvoltage> he has lots of ideas and plans, but didn't have the time previously
<highvoltage> he says that he can now make the time, and can take responsibility for the site now
<highvoltage> (sorry for delay, been interupted)
<RichEd> well can we bring him into an intro with matt nuzum ?
<highvoltage> RichEd: yes
<highvoltage> RichEd: that's the plan
<RichEd> great .. can you send an email to me & cc matt & pips1 ?
<highvoltage> yep
<RichEd> with an outline / intro / suggestions ?
<RichEd> tx.
<pips1> highvoltage thanks!
<RichEd> anything else anyone ...
<jsgotangco> does this mean changing the acls of the drupal cms
<RichEd> and thanks to you pips1 :) nive one
<RichEd> nice :P
<pips1> jsgotangco: huh?
<highvoltage> yes, thanks pips1 :)
<RichEd> jsgotangco: we'll be formalising through matt nuzum, but will take community requirements into account
<highvoltage> (nothing more from my side)
<RichEd> going once ...
<willvdl> documentation?
<jsgotangco> i have nothing to say on my side until i now where i will be standing
<highvoltage> RichEd: pips1 has community in mind with his planning, so community will still be a big part of it
<jsgotangco> s/now/know
<RichEd> willvdl: specifics ?
<RichEd> highvoltage: i'll also bring pips1 into the chats with jono bacon (community) when there is a plan & a fit
<highvoltage> RichEd: great
<willvdl> not really, we touched on it last week and I think it's quintessential to cover
<RichEd> we have no hedgemadge or cbx33 today ... do you have anything ?
<pips1> RichEd: :-)
<willvdl> good point...
<willvdl> I'll follow up there first
<RichEd> so if that is a no ... going twice ...
* RichEd waits for any response or hands up in the air
<jsgotangco> oh well
<Hobbsee> quick!  someone has to find something to discuss!
* RichEd listens for jsgotangco ?
<pips1> jsgotangco: ...?
<jsgotangco> nothing interesting here
<Hobbsee> jsgotangco: plans to take over the world, maybe?
<pips1> hehe
<RichEd> well thanks all ... wrapped up in an hour ... more exicting news & discussion next week then
<willvdl> okie. RichEd, pvt for 5 mins?
* RichEd waves to all and bows in thanks
<RichEd> fine will ... see you there
<jsgotangco> waiting for a dapper upgrade to edgy in my pathetic dsl is the worse
<willvdl> ciao
<pips1> bye
<highvoltage> bye!
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 29 Aug 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 30 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 31 Aug 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Sep 22:00 UTC: Community Council
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
<GNAM> @schedule rome
<GNAM> left.
<Seveas> @schedule Rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 29 Aug 22:00: Technical Board | 30 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 31 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 06 Sep 00:00: Community Council
<Seveas> GNAM, --^
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-08-25
<GNAM> @schedule orme
<GNAM> @schedule Rorme
<GNAM> @schedule rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 29 Aug 22:00: Technical Board | 30 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 31 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 06 Sep 00:00: Community Council
<GNAM> auaua
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-08-27
<whitesoft> Hello
<Burgundavia> whitesoft: this is a meeting channel
<whitesoft> I know. I want to do a quetion, please 
<Burgundavia> right, I would try in #ubuntu if you need support
<whitesoft> I recived an email that say The next meeting of the Council will be at [WWW]  5 September 2006, 22:00 UTC
<whitesoft> And I'm on this meeting, trying to attend it since May 30
<whitesoft> Member candidates for next meeting
<whitesoft>     *
<whitesoft>       RolandoBlanco whitesoft (May 30)
<whitesoft> Well. I hope to be there, but I dont know a what time may be this in Venezuela :S
<whitesoft> Thanks
<Burgundavia> @time america/buenos aires
<Burgundavia> @time america/buenos_aires
<Ubug2> Current time in America/Buenos_Aires: August 27 2006, 14:38:56 - Next meeting: Technical Board in 2 days
<Burgundavia> @schedule america/buenos_aires
<Ubug2> Schedule for America/Buenos_Aires: 29 Aug 17:00: Technical Board | 30 Aug 17:00: Edubuntu | 31 Aug 12:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 05 Sep 19:00: Community Council
<whitesoft> Thanks!
<whitesoft> ;)
<Burgundavia> cheers
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-08-20
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
<cynics> @schedule shanghai
<ubotu> Schedule for Asia/Shanghai: 21 Aug 06:00: Forum Council meeting | 21 Aug 23:00: Kernel Team | 22 Aug 20:00: Edubuntu | 23 Aug 04:00: Xubuntu Developers | 23 Aug 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 27 Aug 23:00: Screencast Team
<blindrav1n> @scedule sydney
<blindrav1n> @schedule sydney
<ubotu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 21 Aug 08:00: Forum Council meeting | 22 Aug 01:00: Kernel Team | 22 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 23 Aug 06:00: Xubuntu Developers | 24 Aug 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 28 Aug 01:00: Screencast Team
<kraut> moin
<PriceChild> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: August 20 2007, 21:49:47 - Next meeting: Forum Council meeting in 10 minutes
<jdong> @arewethereyet
<PriceChild> @no
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Forum Council meeting | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 21 Aug 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 22 Aug 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 22 Aug 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 23 Aug 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 27 Aug 15:00 UTC: Screencast Team
<PriceChild> steady!
<jdong> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: August 20 2007, 21:52:40 - Current meeting: Forum Council meeting
* jdong sleeps for 8 minutes
<jdong> gonna go get coffee... brb
<Vorian> hello
<Vorian> :)
<MikeB> greets
<bapoumba> hey
<Vorian> short short agenda today :)
<jdong> yes it is
<jdong> MikeB and I are going to be the only two FC members present
<jdong> is darkog present for the Ubuntu Partners Lounge?
<Vorian> ok
<Vorian> I haven't been able to get a response from him since the last meeting
<jdong> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: August 20 2007, 22:02:11 - Current meeting: Forum Council meeting
<Vorian> the agenda is as follows :)
<Vorian> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda
<jdong> ok
<Vorian> I say we remove that item until he turns up again :)
<jdong> alright, agreed
<MikeB> agreed
<jdong> if anyone has his e-mail information
<Vorian> I do
<jdong> might be a good idea to hit him up via email
<jdong> ok well, that was easy (tm)
<Vorian> I have sent him 3 emails
<jdong> I agree that we should take it off the agenda until he is reachable again
<Vorian> done
<jdong> ok, next item
<Vorian> Loco Team Administrator
<jdong> Loco Team Administrator
<HymnToLife> Vorian wins
<popey> jdong wins here
<jdong> :)
<Vorian> quote
<Vorian> The forum council has created a new position of LoCo Team Administrator. This person will handle all LoCo requests on the UbuntuForums. This is a 1 year term that can be renewed. To start this off the FC has elected Vorian since he was already heading up the LoCo section of the forums.
<jdong> I'm all for it :)
<Vorian> lol
<MikeB> +1:)
<HymnToLife> same here
<bapoumba> +1
<Vorian> :)
<Rinchen> I can't vote but +1. He's done a good job for Colorado
<Vorian> thanks Rinchen :)
<Rinchen> I'm just telling it like it is :-)
<jdong> this topic has come up on the FC mailing list and all councilmembers voted in favor, to my memory
<jdong> so I think we can call it done and move forward?
<Vorian> k
<MikeB> yup, +1 across the board
<Vorian> last item
<bapoumba> congrats Vorian :)
<Vorian> :)
<Vorian> thanks bapoumba :)
<Vorian> Members Signatures
<Vorian> in response to this thread
<Vorian> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=520487
<bapoumba> images in signatures ?
<Vorian> yes
<jdong> ubuntu-geek had a comment to make about this:
<jdong> >
<jdong> > Regarding the member signatures and the use of images. The reason no
<jdong> > images were never allowed is because we have enough to moderate and
<jdong> > trying to clean up after children who decide to use unprofessional
<jdong> > images will be a nightmare. Secondly, our server is taxed anyways
<jdong> > serving up useless images is pointless and only causes slower load
<jdong> > times.
<jdong> >
<jdong> > So my vote is -1
<jdong> >
<jdong> > Ryan
<bapoumba> -1 here too
<jdong> my feelings are mixed on this
<PriceChild> They will be abused. We have avatars to express ourselves... why would images in sigs be needed too?
<jdong> at the forums I am a part of that allow sigs, it is WIDELY ABUSED
<jdong> gigantic images, ugly long banners
<MikeB> I agree with UG, more graphics will use up forum server resource (disk space and bandwidth)
<MikeB> people would abuse it
<jdong> I am -1 on users uploading images to display on the signature
<Rinchen> again, I don't think I can vote (Just a sub-forum mod) but I also say -1 for the resource and moderation issues already listed.
<jdong> and I am much more -1 on users linking to other external images
<jdong> because that can be catastrophic on page load times if their external host is down or slow
<popey> but cant users switch off visibility of sigs in their profile?
<MikeB> plus it could cause security issues for our friends visiting the forums froma Windows box
<popey> (just a question)
<popey> I am sure my profile has it turned off IIRC
<PriceChild> popey, yes?
<jdong> popey: yes, but users might want to be able to see some text sigs, and not image based ones
<popey> ahh, its "all or nothing
<popey> "show signatures"
<jdong> right
* popey never sees them, so cares not :)
<bapoumba> popey, the regular text only sigs already get abused !
<popey> i can imagine
<bapoumba> and we do moderate them
<jdong> there is one use case I can see...
<jdong> some users like linking to some "Ubuntu User" tiny gif, or a linux user counter
<popey> what about that new bug image thing from ubuntustats
<popey> that might be popular to link to
<PriceChild> http://ubuntucounter.geekosophical.net/
<jdong> one proposal is to have a whitelist of allowed image URL's
<jdong> for sigs
<bapoumba> I have my numbers txt mode ;)
<popey> couldnt this go under the avatar?
<popey> i find sigs (of any kind) interrupt the flow
<jdong> either an avatar or just a text
<bapoumba> would those be hosted on the servers ?
<jdong> is anyone here in favor of allowing image sigs?
<jdong> and has an argument as to why?
<MikeB> -1 here
<bapoumba> still -1
* jdong reading through that thread again...
<MikeB> the only reason would be to allow people to be more individualistic on the forums, but it is not worth the cost of time and potential for abuse
<jdong> the OP's idea is to "moderate" images, which I disagree with
<jdong> it would be too much work on our part
<jdong> and still doesn't resolve the technical problems with load time and server resources
<jdong> so, let's just call this -1?
<MikeB> sounds good
<HymnToLife> -1 for me too
<Vorian> agreed
<jdong> wow, that was fast
<Vorian> anything to address that's not on the agenda jdong or MikeB?
<MikeB> nope, been fairly calm recently on the forums
<jdong> One unclosed matter for me is the Launchpad integration stuff
<jdong> what is the latest status update on that?
<bapoumba> who knows ?
<MikeB> Matt R. wants to meeting with the FC/admin with some launchpad people
<jdong> yep, that's the last e-mail I've seen on it
<jdong> so then it's hung on our side, pending a meeting date
<bapoumba> how many registered users on LP as to now ,
<bapoumba> ?
<Vorian> 3
<MikeB> I never heard back if anyone wanted to meet with them (LP guys)
<bapoumba> Vorian, :D
<Vorian> :)
<jdong> I sent back an e-mail on this... I'm interested in meeting to ask a few more questions
<bapoumba> usernames ?
<MikeB> I will mail the rest of the FC see if we could arrange a time
<jdong> ok
<Vorian> excellent
<Vorian> anything else?
<jdong> not that I can think of
<MikeB> Vorian: Till January, I can not meeting on Monday or Wednesday afternoon from 3:00PM till 5:00PM EST
<jdong> as far as a next meeting date... I am doing calss scheduling the day after labo(u)r day
<jdong> so by the end of the first week of sept I'll be more clear on my free timeslots
<jdong> perhaps we should delay scheduling till then
<Vorian> MikeB, ok
<MikeB> jdong: sounds good
<Vorian> jdong, ok
<jdong> MikeB: shall we make formal decision on the PM topic here?
<jdong> I just got to my PM inbox a second ago
<MikeB> the Ubuntu user map?
<jdong> no, the staff member
* Rinchen bows out.
* jdong still resents that PM's don't have reply-to-all buttons
<MikeB> jdong: sure
<jdong> for everyone out there, Artificial Intelligence has offered to rejoin the staff
<Vorian> great
<bapoumba> cool
<jdong> prior, he left due to personal reasons (not enough time)
<jdong> I am +1 for welcoming him back on the staff
<MikeB> +1 here also
<bapoumba> +1
<HymnToLife> +1
<Vorian> +1 \o/
<jdong> alright, then welcome back, AI :)
<bapoumba> W00t
<jdong> now that Mike's brought up the map thing....
<jdong> might as well get that done
<jdong> nickburns
<jdong> PM'ed us about a map that he created
<jdong> the URL is : http://www.flippinsweetdude.com/maps/
<jdong> apparently you can pin your location on a Google Map
<jdong> and he wants to make it a sticky to attract more attention
<MikeB> phone brb
<jdong> IMO the map is cool, but I don't think it's sticky material
<HymnToLife> yep
<HymnToLife> he can put something about it in his sig or hatever
<jdong> historically we have only granted "advertising stickies" for official Ubuntu endeavors or official forum projects
<jdong> he is welcome to make a thread or put it in his sig
<jdong> but I'm -1 on sticky
<HymnToLife> -1 too
<MikeB> back
<HymnToLife> otherwise we'll have tons of people requesting a sticky for their personal stuff
<bapoumba> 350 000 users, that will be crowded :D
<jdong> agreed
<bapoumba> -1 on the sticky
<jdong> advertising personal projects on the forum is already on the border...
<jdong> sticky is a definite no
<MikeB> -1 here
<Vorian> agreed, Je suis la carte
<jdong> ok
<PriceChild> Isn't there already one on the wiki or something?
<bapoumba> Yea, I think so PriceChild
<jdong> Vorian: you're what?
<Vorian> yes, link is also on the planet
<PriceChild> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWorldWide
<Vorian> ok
<Vorian> anything else?
<jdong> alright, I think we're done
<jdong> I want food
<Vorian> great
<Vorian> thanks for coming everyone :)
<jdong> Vorian: large pepperoni and mushroom pizza
<jdong> Vorian: and a 2 liter of coke too
<Vorian> jdong, on the way :)
<MikeB> Thanks
<jdong> thanks!
<MikeB> see you guys later
<bapoumba> See ya !
* jdong prepares a few pennies for tip
<Vorian> ha
<jdong> alright, thanks for coming
<jdong> and all that stuff
<jdong> bye.
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-08-21
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 21 Aug 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 22 Aug 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 22 Aug 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 23 Aug 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 27 Aug 15:00 UTC: Screencast Team | 28 Aug 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Server Team meeting
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 21 Aug 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 22 Aug 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 22 Aug 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 23 Aug 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Aug 12:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 27 Aug 15:00 UTC: Screencast Team
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
<kraut> moin
<zul> @schedule montreal
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 21 Aug 11:00: Kernel Team | 22 Aug 08:00: Edubuntu | 22 Aug 16:00: Xubuntu Developers | 23 Aug 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Aug 08:00: MOTU Team | 27 Aug 11:00: Screencast Team
<ian_brasil> @schedule manaus
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Manaus: 21 Aug 11:00: Kernel Team | 22 Aug 08:00: Edubuntu | 22 Aug 16:00: Xubuntu Developers | 23 Aug 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Aug 08:00: MOTU Team | 27 Aug 11:00: Screencast Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Kernel Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Aug 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 22 Aug 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 23 Aug 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Aug 12:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 27 Aug 15:00 UTC: Screencast Team
<zul> hello
* kylem makes funny noises
<zul> heh
<zul> so umm yeah
* amitk_ nods
<BenC> yeah, I think we cancel for today :)
<BenC> unless anyone has some stuff they want to talk about
<zul> nope
<rtg> BenC: we  have some community patches that need review.
<BenC> amitk_, kylem, rtg: anything?
<zul> rtg: er mine?
<amitk_> nope
<rtg> zul: Yours and others.
<BenC> rtg: yeah, we need to start on those as soon as kyle is finished with the repo
<zul> rtg: mine just fixes a bunch of bugs
<rtg> zul: I know, but I still have to look at 'em.
<rtg> BenC: how about these libata patches from Edward Amsden?
<BenC> rtg: they looked like cherry picks from mainline at first glance...is that correct?
<rtg> BenC: yep, I just wanted to make sure they weren't duplicates for the ICH8 stuff that just went in.
<rtg> I'm a little confused about all of the ata/piix variations.
<BenC> I think the other stuff was poulsbo
<BenC> this isn't the same thing is it?
<rtg> BenC: I don't know, thats why I'm asking you :)
<amitk_> I haven't heard of more poulsbo patches after I committed the libata poulsbo support patch
<BenC> sounds like they aren't
<amitk_> definitely aren't. They are bugfixes for ICHx chipsets not recognizing ATA/SATA drivers
<BenC> ok, anything else to discuss?
<BenC> alright, meeting adjourned :)
<BenC> I really need to read up on the meeting bot
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Aug 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 22 Aug 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 23 Aug 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Aug 12:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 27 Aug 15:00 UTC: Screencast Team | 28 Aug 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Server Team meeting
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-08-22
<kraut> moin
<ogra> anyone here ?
<juliux> hey ogra
* ogra wonders why ubotu didnt update 
* juliux is half here
<juliux> @schedule
<RichEd> hi all ... start in 1 min ...
<juliux> ogra, ubotu is not here;)
<ogra> ah
* highvoltage arrives
<RichEd> Okay ... here is a test version of the agenda for Edubuntu-Devel ... the old tech part of the 2 hour meeting.
<RichEd>     *
<RichEd>       Technical
<RichEd>           o
<RichEd>             Where are we in the development cycle:
<RichEd>                 +
<RichEd>                   What was the last deadline ?
<RichEd>                       #
<RichEd>                         Item
<RichEd>                       #
<RichEd>                         Date
<RichEd>                 +
<RichEd>                   What is the next deadline ?
<RichEd>                       #
<RichEd>                         Item
<RichEd>                       #
<RichEd>                         Date
<RichEd>           o
<RichEd>             Progress over the last week
<RichEd>           o
<RichEd>             Items needing to be sorted out for the next deadline
<RichEd>           o
<RichEd>             Issues needing assistance for the next deadline
<RichEd>           o
<RichEd>             Any Other Items under Artwork
<RichEd>           o
<RichEd>             Any Other Items under Documentation
<RichEd>           o
<RichEd>             Planned Activities for coming week
<RichEd> let's try this out today and see if it works ... I'll drive the agenda.
<RichEd> ogra: Where are we in the development cycle ?
<RichEd> What was the last deadline ?
<RichEd> Item
<RichEd> Date
<RichEd> ??
* highvoltage increases window size
<RichEd> sorry about the shody paste ... wiki cut & paste adds line breaks :(
<RichEd> *shoddy
<ogra> well, lets see if my paste is better then :)
<ogra> == General ==
<ogra> Done:
<ogra> - lots of screensaver fixing for thin client usage (fixed several crashers, no graphics intensive modes being used anymore and no fading)
<ogra> - lots of merges and code reviews of ltsp/ldm code (still more ahead)
<ogra> - set spec staus where possible (see list below)
<ogra> Ahead:
<ogra> - TCM needs a lot of love (fixing the userlist functions to get it going with new ldm, easier vnc setup for the chroot/image)
<ogra> - one massive bug outstanding to be solved before tribe 6 (bug 121547)
<ogra> - tribe 5 planned for this thursday, please help tesing
<ogra> - poking around with libflashsupport to get it to multiverse (flash sound on thin clients)
<ogra> - get moodle status from moquist (no news yet, he contacted pitti about postgres db creation scripts)
<ogra> == Specs ==
<ogra> Implemented:
<ogra> - ltsp-boot-performance
<ogra> - ldm-improvements
<ogra> - fully-automatic-swapserver
<ogra> - ldm-loadbalancing -> vagrant to set status
<ogra> Deferred for gutsy+1:
<ogra> - ltspfs-virtual-hal-devices
<ogra> - gphoto-ltspfs
<ogra> - ltsp-update-manager-integration
<ogra> - ltsp-management-gui -> (hope to get global settings going at least)
<ogra> - ltsp-fat-clients
<ogra> - ltsp-local-apps -> sbalneav to set status
<ogra> Unknown:
<ogra> - ltsp-palm-devices -> sbalneav to report status
<ogra> i'll try to maintain such a report in the future, should keep the tech part short
<RichEd> that's great :) ... will be easy to make minutes & action list out of that ...
<zul> ./topic
<zul> sorry
<ogra> right
<ogra> zul, ubotu is gone, so no topic updates atm ...
<RichEd> can we work through my section suggestions ... to see how it fits together ... I still think we need contest as to where we are in the dev cycle (I know I do) :)
<ogra> (edubuntu meeting now)
<RichEd> What was the last deadline ?
<RichEd> What is the next deadline ?
<ogra> no idea ?
<RichEd> I mean in terms of the dev cycle ... last one was tribe 4 ?
<gpocentek> ogra: I think I have a libflashsupport somewhere if it can help
<gpocentek> a package*
<ogra> last deadline was UVF/feature freeze
<ogra> gpocentek, i have one ready already, but it was rejected, the one from the EdubuntuFAQ is horribly packaged
<RichEd> ah ... and explain that in 1 sentence for the technically challenged ... what is UVF ?
<ogra> i need to get it going with gnutls instead of libssl etc to get it included
<gpocentek> ogra: ok
<ogra> upstresam version freeze
<ogra> nothing new can enter main anymore
<RichEd> :) thanks
<ogra> (unless you do a bit of paperwork and get a review)
<RichEd> and what is the next deadline ... item and date ?
<ogra> feture freeze is no new features can be adeed anymore (same exception rules)
<ogra> next immediate dealine is tribe5 (thursday)
<RichEd> * Items needing to be sorted out for the next deadline ?
<ogra> next important deadline is beta release
<ogra> bug 121547 needs to be solved before next tribe release
<toutouff> I've got a problem with pbuilder, could you help me ?
<ogra> (tribe6, archive is friozen this week until tribe5 is out)
<ogra> toutouff, we're in the middle of a meeting and this is no support channel, try #ubuntu-motu
<toutouff> sorry, wrong channel
<toutouff> :/
<RichEd> ogra: quick summary of the bug ? and what needs to be done to squash it ?
<ogra> i need to rewrite the installed bits for ltsp
<RichEd> and will you be able to manage in time for the deadline ?
<ogra> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/121547
<ogra> at least for beta i can guarantee it ... cant promise it for tribe 6
<ogra> but i'll do my best
<RichEd> * Issues needing assistance for the next deadline ?
<ogra> having two tribe releases instead of one before beta doesnt help here :/
<RichEd> can anyone help you with that bug or anything else ?
<ogra> not wi5th that bug, no
<ogra> i listed actions above where others are required
* RichEd scrolls back
<ogra> moodle is still in the clouds, no feedback from mmoquist yet apart from him saying he wants to have it ready
<ogra> sbalneav and vagrant need to clean up theoir spec statuses
<RichEd> will you prod them, or will it help if i ask nicely as well :)
<ogra> beyond that i get all help i can get from scottie during this bugfixing phase
<ogra> i'll go after them, all fine
<highvoltage> ogra: is vagrant doing full-time ltsp now?
<ogra> no
<ogra> he's doing freegek
<ogra> *freegeek
<highvoltage> ah
<ogra> he still didnt get his stuff sorted
<RichEd> * Any Other Items under Artwork
<ogra> anyway, thats all from tech side, any other questions ?
<ogra> not yet ... i'll need to tackle the artwork package and do some cleanups .. but thats for tribe6
<RichEd> Fine ... Jill mailed to say thanks for the feedback in the meeting last week.
<ogra> scott is already preparing docs for the new ltsp stuff we have
<RichEd> I mentioned the abstract concept for the default desktop, and she said she would try to complete some she had started.
<ogra> good
<ogra> i'm fine with the one we have as "young" flavor
<RichEd> When is the final freeze for artwork ?
<RichEd> official and unofficial ;)
<ogra> (the logo could be a bit less in the face though)
* ogra looks on GutsyReleaseSchedule
<RichEd> are you talking about her sample ? the logo comment ?
<highvoltage> RichEd: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyReleaseSchedule
<ogra> sept 20th is final
<ogra> yes
<ogra> i'm talking about the sample
<RichEd> okay ... i'll add that to the comment page she is working off
<ogra> the logo is very huge and to much in the face imho
<RichEd> I wanted to give her samples of all of the old default desktops we shipped, but art.ubuntu.com is out of action
<RichEd> So I have given her the 2 I have access to ... LTS and feisty
<ogra> osdir ususally has a bunch
<RichEd> osdir ? not familiar with that ?
<ogra> LTS was the chalkboard ...
<ogra> osdir.com
<RichEd> okay will check for more ...
<ogra> edgy and feisty were the best ones we had yet
<RichEd> * Any Other Items under Documentation
<ogra> as i said, scott is on it and i'll review
<RichEd> okay ... is that it for tech then ? anyone with questions ?
<RichEd> Okay .... some general discussion for people who are interested:
<RichEd> * how do we get more users at the meeting ?
<RichEd> I can advertise in the mail list, but I need to get an idea of what topics will pull people in to attend.
<juliux> RichEd, for me one meeting per weeks is too much
<juliux> RichEd, if it would be only once a month then there could be more topics and more people
<ogra> juliux, well, we have different people at the differently scheduled meetings
<RichEd> juliux: so would you suggest tech every week, and users once a month ?
<juliux> RichEd, yes
<RichEd> If we have a edubuntu-users section of the meeting, we can start some debate / poll topics on the mail list, and then meet to discuss monthly ?
<RichEd> so keep it down to 1 hour per week for tech & general dev ...
* ogra would suggest twice a month 
<ogra> one in the evening and one in the morning
<juliux> ogra, that is also fine
<ogra> and we need to find a solution for EC if we do that as well
<RichEd> that would work for me as well ... every second week ...
<RichEd> but then we are always at the same time ... no variance for the US people
<ogra> RichEd, twice a month with alternating times
<ogra> as we have iot now, but skip two a month
<RichEd> perhaps first meeting of the month ... and do the EC stuff ... and then 3 weeks after that ?
<RichEd> that will alternate the times ?
<ogra> yeah
<juliux> RichEd, one meeting in the morning one in the evening;)
<RichEd> okay, let me look at the dates coming up ... and play a bit and then make some suggestions
<ogra> good
<RichEd> pips1 is not here for community
<RichEd> I have nothing else to discuss for today ... and some conference calls coming up ...
<RichEd> Anyone else with topics / questions ?
<juliux> yeah
* RichEd hands the mic to juliux 
<juliux> i want to invite you all the german ubucon;) we will have an extra education track
<RichEd> great :)
<RichEd> have you got a fridge article up ?
<juliux> RichEd, yes
<RichEd> and did you send a mail to the edubuntu lists ?
<juliux> RichEd, there will be an other if the programm is online
<juliux> RichEd, that will come next week
<RichEd> good ... what sort of audience are you expecting ? size and type of person ?
<RichEd> and give the dates and locations here in the channel, so it can go in the minutes
<juliux> we hope betwenn 200 and 500 people
<juliux> and there will we everything from developer over normal users to newbies
<RichEd> all linux converts already, or some people looking to jump in ?
<juliux> date is 20. and 21. october in krefeld/germany
<juliux> we think some new people
<juliux> the university will invite local schools
<RichEd> do you need any more material / presentations / ubuntu stuff ?
<juliux> we only need talks;)
<cliebow__> ttfn
<RichEd> I have a presentation on Edubuntu reference cases ... if someone is prepared to speak on that, I can help them with the slides ?
<RichEd> okay ... any other issues for today ?
<RichEd> ogra ... are you okay to wind up now ?
<juliux> RichEd, cool
<ogra> sure :)
<RichEd> going once ...
<RichEd> going twice ...
* RichEd looks around
<RichEd> BONG ... thanks all
<highvoltage> hey rodarvus
<rodarvus> hey hey
<ds500ss> hay
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Aug 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 23 Aug 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Aug 12:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 27 Aug 15:00 UTC: Screencast Team | 28 Aug 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 28 Aug 19:00 UTC: Technical Board
<DarkRaven> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 22 Aug 20:00: Xubuntu Developers | 23 Aug 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Aug 12:00: MOTU Team | 27 Aug 15:00: Screencast Team | 28 Aug 15:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 28 Aug 19:00: Technical Board
<zul> @schedule montreal
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 22 Aug 16:00: Xubuntu Developers | 23 Aug 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Aug 08:00: MOTU Team | 27 Aug 11:00: Screencast Team | 28 Aug 11:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 28 Aug 15:00: Technical Board
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Xubuntu Developers | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 23 Aug 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Aug 12:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 27 Aug 15:00 UTC: Screencast Team | 28 Aug 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 28 Aug 19:00 UTC: Technical Board
<mr_pouit> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: Current meeting: Xubuntu Developers | 23 Aug 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Aug 12:00: MOTU Team | 27 Aug 15:00: Screencast Team | 28 Aug 15:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 28 Aug 19:00: Technical Board
<j1mc> hello?
<vidd> do we have a meeting going on?
<vidd> so no meeting?
<gnomefreak> no not right now
<vidd> !meeting
<ubotu> Channel logs can be found at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs
<vidd> what is the UTC right now?
<Pricey> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: August 22 2007, 20:24:48 - Current meeting: Xubuntu Developers
<Pricey> vidd, ^
<vidd> ty
<vidd> looks like the meeting is a bust....again
<Toadstool> @schedule Los_angeles
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Los_Angeles: Current meeting: Xubuntu Developers | 23 Aug 08:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Aug 05:00: MOTU Team | 27 Aug 08:00: Screencast Team | 28 Aug 08:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 28 Aug 12:00: Technical Board
<Toadstool> did xubuntu guys give up already?
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 23 Aug 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Aug 12:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 27 Aug 15:00 UTC: Screencast Team | 28 Aug 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 28 Aug 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 29 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-08-23
<kraut> moin
<dendrobates> @schedule New York
<ubotu> Schedule for America/New_York: 23 Aug 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Aug 08:00: MOTU Team | 27 Aug 11:00: Screencast Team | 28 Aug 11:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 28 Aug 15:00: Technical Board | 29 Aug 16:00: Edubuntu
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 24 Aug 12:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 27 Aug 15:00 UTC: Screencast Team | 28 Aug 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 28 Aug 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 29 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 24 Aug 12:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 27 Aug 15:00 UTC: Screencast Team | 28 Aug 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 28 Aug 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 29 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 30 Aug 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<DarkRaven> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 24 Aug 12:00: MOTU Team | 27 Aug 15:00: Screencast Team | 28 Aug 15:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 28 Aug 19:00: Technical Board | 29 Aug 20:00: Edubuntu | 30 Aug 20:00: Ubuntu Development Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-08-24
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 24 Aug 12:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 27 Aug 15:00 UTC: Screencast Team | 28 Aug 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 28 Aug 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 29 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 03 Sep 13:00 UTC: Community Council
<kraut> moin
<coNP> @schedule Budapest
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Budapest: 24 Aug 14:00: MOTU Team | 27 Aug 17:00: Screencast Team | 28 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 28 Aug 21:00: Technical Board | 29 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 03 Sep 15:00: Community Council
<kraut> @schedule berlin
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 24 Aug 14:00: MOTU Team | 27 Aug 17:00: Screencast Team | 28 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 28 Aug 21:00: Technical Board | 29 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 03 Sep 15:00: Community Council
<Hobbsee> @now sydney
<ubotu> Current time in Australia/Sydney: August 24 2007, 20:39:38 - Next meeting: MOTU Team in 1 hour 20 minutes
<dholbach> MOTU Meeting in ~15 minutes!
<coNP> MOTU Q&A session in ~15 minutes! :D
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: MOTU Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 Aug 15:00 UTC: Screencast Team | 28 Aug 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 28 Aug 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 29 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 03 Sep 13:00 UTC: Community Council
<dholbach> welcome everybody to the MOTU meeting!
<ScottK> Good morning.
<coNP> Good afternoon.
<dholbach> is there anybody who'd volunteer driving it?
* TheMuso puts his hands up to do minutes, and announcements for events/future meeting.
<dholbach> is there anybody who'd volunteer doing minutes?
<dholbach> TheMuso: you rock!
<dholbach> ScottK: would you mind driving it?
<ScottK> Not at all.
<dholbach> our agenda is very short today: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings :)
* ScottK looks for the agenda
<ScottK> Thanks
<ScottK> There's only the fixed topics.
<ScottK> Does anyone have anything for geneneral MOTU discussion before we start on those?
<ScottK> general even
<ScottK> OK.  I guess not.
<ScottK> Next meeting?
<dholbach> in two weeks?
<TheMuso> I guess two weeks from now is good.
<ScottK> Sounds good.
<dholbach> should we try to go for another time next time?
<TheMuso> As for the time, what cycle of rotating times are we following?
<dholbach> TheMuso: none at the moment if I recall correctly :)
<TheMuso> dholbach: I think so.
<ScottK> IIRC we've been bumping it +- 12 hours each time.
<TheMuso> re a different time next meeting.
<dholbach> oh ok
<ScottK> So 2 weeks + 12 hours
<ScottK> Any objections?
<TheMuso> ScottK: If I am right, thats a Saturday, at 0 UTC>
<ScottK> Yes.
<TheMuso> I don't mind, but I am sure folks in Europe would like to speak up.
<dholbach> I will be on a plane at that time
<dholbach> but you've showed before, that you can deal easily without me :-)
<ScottK> dholbach: Would you like to propose an alternate time?
<dholbach> and it'd be fair for US/AU people
<dholbach> ah no, I won't be on a plane, but it might be a bit late for me anyway
<TheMuso> dholbach: This time is more appropriate for au people than not, as its our evenin
<TheMuso> evening
<dholbach> I think it's fine having a meeting suited for AU and US people - that's good
<TheMuso> sat mroning people are often out and about
* TheMuso feels this is a 3-way convo.
<ScottK> At least it's up to 3.
<TheMuso> but its fine for me
<ScottK> Saturday at 0000 UTC it is then.
<ScottK> Next hug day....
<TheMuso> Well... I am not involved with them.
<ScottK> dholbach: Any suggestions?
<ScottK> Next Friday is the first day after New Package Freeze.
<dholbach> I ponder trying for once to roll it into the 'regular' Hug Day
<ScottK> It might be a good time to kick off the focus on bug fixing.
<Hobbsee> yes, so all MOTU's please keep (or start) reviewing packages
<dholbach> oh, that's good too
<ScottK> OK.
<dholbach> what do you think about making a selection of say 20 universe bugs and make a triage list like for the normal hug days?
* dholbach looks for an example
<zul> morning
<dholbach> as you can see on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20070822 - it has worked REALLY well
<ScottK> dholbach: I'd rather focus on fixing rather than triaging.
<ScottK> dholbach: Maybe pick a few packages that have got a lot of bugs and recent updates to get the bug backlog cleaned up.
<dholbach> ok, we could have a 'fix list' as well
<dholbach> ScottK: good idea
<dholbach> we should propose that on the list and focus on getting the list ready until next friday
<ScottK> As an example (not for next Friday because it won't get out by then) would be democracyplayer/miro.
<ScottK> OK.
<dholbach> yeah, that's really popular
<ScottK> listen is another one.
<ScottK> Is there a way to get LP to give me a list of universe packages sorted by the number of open bugs?
<ScottK> Nevermind, we can deal with that later.
<ScottK> Any objections to Universe hug day next friday?
<dholbach> no, none at all
<TheMuso> Not from me.
<ScottK> REVU day....
<TheMuso> Aren't they every MOnday?
<dholbach> ScottK: maybe CC brian@canonical.com for that - he wrote a couple of tools using py-lp-bugs
<ScottK> I'd say for the next week EVERY day is REVU day.
<TheMuso> thats what we decided a few emetings back
<dholbach> oh, good thinking
<TheMuso> ScottK: GOod idea.
<ScottK> dholbach: is that the same person as bdmurray?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: i think so
<dholbach> ScottK: yes
<ScottK> OK.  Up through New Package Freeze, every day is REVU day.  Lets get going .... [fade to uplifting music] 
<ScottK> Thanks.
<dholbach> rock
<dholbach> sorry, need to close the windows, thunderstorm coming up, brb
<ScottK> Next Q&A.
* ScottK waits for someone to volunteer to run it.
<TheMuso> ScottK: Well how about we see how this one goes.
<ScottK> Fine with me.
<ScottK> I don't particularly like the idea of making people think there is a special time for asking questions.
<ScottK> I'd rather they thougth they could ask questions any time.
<TheMuso> ScottK: Agreed.
<ScottK> Of course you may have noticed that in general I'm not a fan of structure and process.
<TheMuso> hh
<TheMuso> heh
<ScottK> dholbach: We'll delegate the next Q&A to you based on how this one goes.
<dholbach> I think it's good to have a call for participants and gathering them in a place
<ScottK> Does anyone have any other MOTU business/discussion?
<dholbach> I'm happy to run them
<ScottK> dholbach: When then?
<dholbach> in two weeks again?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: only how we handle UVF, with native packages, and packages in bzr
<dholbach> 12:00 utc is good for me and if somebody did one at 0:00 that'd be awesome
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: WOuld you rather have the rest of the UVF team here?
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: yeah
<zul> im here
<zul> kind of but not really awake
<ScottK> dholbach: Pick a time that's not the same time as the meeting though.
<Hobbsee> i think stevenk has gone walkabout.
<Hobbsee> the others of us appear to be here
<dholbach> ScottK: 12:00 UTC should be fine then
<ScottK> OK.
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: What about gpocentek?
<TheMuso> Or is he not UVF?
<ScottK> soren: You awake?
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: didnt think he was
<ScottK> He's not.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: he  just ponged, so yes
<TheMuso> ah
<ScottK> OK.
<TheMuso> dunno where I got that idea.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: "How we handle UVF"
<ScottK> Over to you....
<Hobbsee> right
* Hobbsee stands at the podium
* soren wanders in
<soren> ScottK: Sure am.
* zul pays attention
<Hobbsee> obviously, UVF is so that we can keep universe's quality up
<ScottK> I thought it was so I could get more bug mail.
<TheMuso> heh
<Hobbsee> ideally, we'd approve everything that people file.
<gpocentek> hello
<ScottK> Ideally everything people file would be worth approving.
<ScottK> Agreed.
<Hobbsee> therefore, it's the MOTU's responsibility to actually judge what is good to file, and what isnt.
<Hobbsee> so please, all MOTU's, think before filing.
<TheMuso> s/c
<TheMuso> ugh
<Hobbsee> to our hopefuls, please also think before filing, although we wont yell at you so badly if you dont.
<Hobbsee> the question is, how do we want to handle things like new bzr revisions, and/or new native packages?
<soren> Hobbsee: New packages are fine.
<ScottK> For packages that only affect other distros (like ubuntustudio or mythbuntu) I say given them a blanket waiver.
<soren> Hobbsee: At least for another week, iirc.
<Hobbsee> er, new native package revisions
<gpocentek> TheMuso: I'm not in the uvf team
<Hobbsee> ScottK: yes, that sounds sane
<TheMuso> gpocentek: SO I found out. Sorry for the confusion.
<gpocentek> np
<_MMA_> Man. Im gonna need a log.
<ScottK> If they want to break something that's their business.
<zul> for those who dont know the motu team is Hobbsee, soren, stevenk, scottk, and me
<soren> For new bzr revisions, it's difficult to say anything in general. If it's minor bugfixes or minor new features, no problem. If it's potentially disruptive, it needs to be more closely evalueated.
<TheMuso> For UbuntuStudio's case, its seed updates, artwork and settings updates. Thats all.
<ScottK> Any objections to blanket wavier for native packages that only affect derivatives?
<_MMA_> Ant the art we should be able to update until Ubuntu's artwork deadline.
<_MMA_> *And
<ScottK> zul, soren?
<Hobbsee> also, do we want to require that all UVFe's go through the sponsorship process first (a MOTU ack), before they hit the UVFe queue?
<zul> ScottK: isnt he?
<ScottK> Hobbsee: That's a good one.
<Hobbsee> ideally, we'd get rid of a set "motu-uvf" team for gutsy+1, and have all motu's acting as a sanity filter
<soren> Oh, if derivatives want to break their own stuff, let them. No problems here.
<Hobbsee> that's one of my master dreams, and plans.
<ScottK> zul: StevenK is on the team, but not here.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: he just joined.
<StevenK> Sure I am.
<ScottK> Ah.
<Hobbsee> because that will stop things being blocked so much
<ScottK> StevenK too then.
<coNP> Sorry, ScottK, what do you mean by "Any objections to blanket wavier for native packages that only affect derivatives?"
<ScottK> Hobbsee: But blocking is kind of the point.
<ScottK> con
<Hobbsee> coNP: ie, the people who want to upload ubuntustudio stuff can, as it wont affect the rest of the archive.
<ScottK> what Hobbsee said....
<coNP> Thanks Hobbsee, ScottK.
* TheMuso is point MOTU for ubuntustudio.
<TheMuso> SO it all goes through me.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: the point is, the MOTU's (hopefully) wont file for things that dont deserve a UVFe, and the MOTU's will tell the hopefuls that it does not fit the freeze requirements
<Hobbsee> er, if it does not
<StevenK> The ubuntustudio stuff in question are just meta-packages?
<TheMuso> StevenK: metapackages, settings for UbuntuStudio desktop layout/artwork, and artwork itself.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: and that we can check what the MOTU's are acking, because they'll still go thru motu-uvf for this cycle.
<TheMuso> so very very little architecture specific code
<Hobbsee> ScottK: and advise them of unwise decisions
<ScottK> Right.
<StevenK> The thing is, I'm not happy doing a blanket for native packages, since that covers a multitude of sins.
<Hobbsee> as you'll note, we seem to have a different group of -uvf people each time, so theoretically, any MOTU's should be competent at it.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: i think that'll be up to the filers, and then our, discression.
<StevenK> However, I'm happy for a blanket ubuntustudio metapackages/settings/etc exception.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: [22:24]  <soren> For new bzr revisions, it's difficult to say anything in general. If it's minor bugfixes or minor new features, no problem. If it's potentially disruptive, it needs to be more closely evalueated.
<ScottK> StevenK: Agreed.  Just for native packages for derivatives.  Mythbuntu too?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: yes, mythbuntu, ubuntu studio, xubuntu too, i would expect.
<StevenK> Sounds fine to me.
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: xubuntu is main
<ScottK> OK.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: this is true, btu i'm suspecting they still have the odd package in universe tha tpeople use
<StevenK> I'm not certain about having to get UVFe's sponsored, though.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: as in, the sponsoring done first, not afterwards?
<ScottK> Hobbsee: So far the UVFe rate isn't to bad.  How about we leave it for now.
<StevenK> ScottK: +1
<zul> i would like to see a debdiff as well or am i just crazy?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: OK.  i'd appreciate it if the people could think about it too
<ScottK> zul: debdiff for a new upstream version will likely be painful to read.
<Hobbsee> zul: diffstat may be of more use, there
<ScottK> Diff of the debian dirs might be useful.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: we can probably request that stuff as appropriate?
<ScottK> Agreed.
<StevenK> A diff of debian would be useless in my opinion.
<ScottK> OK.
<StevenK> A changelog entry is the minimum
<ScottK> Definitely.
<ScottK> Of course we've already approved a UVFe for a package with the changelog entry "rewrote the entire package".
<Hobbsee> yeah, well.
<Hobbsee> that would be a pain to support the old version
<ScottK> I wouldn't approve that now, but it was just a day or two after the freeze.
* ScottK would prefer motu-uvf was subscribed, not assigned.
<ScottK> Any other opinions on that?
<zul> if it affects a spec then I woudlnt have a problem with it
<zul> if not we would have to be very very very careful
<StevenK> ScottK: Agreed
<Hobbsee> ScottK: oh, so *that's* why my script isnt working.
<Hobbsee> it tries to unsub motu-uvf, not unassign.
* ScottK will update the wiki unless there is an objection.
<TheMuso> Ok, just to make it clear for minutes, and to save me reading tons of log, what has been decided?
<ScottK> 1.  motu-uvf should be subscribed, not assigned on bugs.
<ScottK> 2.  Blanket UVFe for ubuntustudio/mythbuntu/xubuntu (if any) only packages.
<coNP> ScottK: does it mean that you should unassign yourself before?
<ScottK> coNP: You are welcome to assign yourself to any bugs you want to be assigned to.
<ScottK> Just don't assigne motu-uvf.
<ScottK> assign even.
<ScottK> 3.  People asking for UVFe's please don't be stupid.
<ScottK> Feel free to reword that last one.
<ScottK> I think that's it.
<coNP> ScottK: okay, just asking because it is similar to the UUS / UMS procedure, where you are supposed to unsubscribe yourself.
<ScottK> Anything else?
<coNP> I have another question, maybe not a very good one, but can we ask the archive admins to do the approved UVFe syncs ASAP? I think it is quite crucial to let these packages as many testing as possible...
<ScottK> With, but for a UVFe you have further action after it's approved, so it's different.
<ScottK> coNP: If it's needed for a particular special reason, yes, but generally no.
<ScottK> You have to trust them to have a reasonable work priority for all the stuff they do.
<geser> what think the other members from the motu-uvf team about updated native packages (new version): do every change need an UVFe?
<ScottK> None of them are fully dedicated to archive admin.
* coNP understands.
<ScottK> OK.
<geser> I've talked with Hobbsee about it in #ubuntu-motu and she was ok that small changes (around < 30 lines) don't need an UVFe
<Hobbsee> geser: i was proposing that, yes
<ScottK> I think the rule for other native packages should be don't do something risky, ask if you are unsure.  If you break something and don't fix it, well send Mithrandir to your house to eat you.
<ScottK> Or something like that.
<Mithrandir> mm
<Mithrandir> brains
<Mithrandir> :-)
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: dont get too excited.
* Hobbsee hugs Mithrandir :)
* Mithrandir hugs Hobbsee back and goes to the post office to get his new brain crusher^W^Wbarley crusher.
<Hobbsee> heh, oh dear.
* TheMuso must try sheep's brains one of these days.
* Hobbsee locks Mithrandir out of his house, and takes all the keys back to au.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: sounds sane.
<TheMuso> d/c
<TheMuso> argh
* popey worries about Hobbsee sometimes
<Hobbsee> popey: hm?
<popey> :D
<zul> Hobbsee is what happens to you when you doo too much
<ScottK> Any more UVF issues/questions?
<Hobbsee> oh right, is htat what the problem is?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: can i have a psychic pony?
<TheMuso> heh
* Hobbsee shines her red evil eyes at popey
<TheMuso> heh
<ScottK> Hobbsee: If they pony were psychic it would know to run and be uncachable.
<TheMuso> haha
<highvoltage> when is the next motu-council meeting?
<highvoltage> (assuming there is such a thing :) )
<Hobbsee> highvoltage: i think it's by email.
<TheMuso> highvoltage: MC never meets.
<Hobbsee> dholbach: what do you want to do about new people for the MC?
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Good question.
* TheMuso nominates Hobbsee for MC.
<Hobbsee> as sistpoty has resigned.
* coNP hopes he can vote :)
<TheMuso> And I have a feeling crimsun is also likely to
<dholbach> Hobbsee: I expected a question from sabdfl or somebody of the TB to be honest
<dholbach> Hobbsee: I'll make sure to get an answer on that quickly
<Hobbsee> dholbach: OK, cool.
<highvoltage> Hobbsee, TheMuso: aaah
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Are you through your list then?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: i think so
<ScottK> OK.
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Better check. :p
<ScottK> Anyone else with stuff for the MOTU meeting?
<ScottK> Going once
<ScottK> Going twice
<ScottK> Meeting adjourned.
<dholbach> thanks a lot ScottK
<ScottK> Thanks everyone for coming.
<dholbach> thanks a lot TheMuso
* TheMuso will have minutes available hopefully within 24 hours.
* dholbach hugs ScottK and TheMuso
* ScottK would much rather run the meeting than write minutes.  Thanks TheMuso
<TheMuso> And same with announcements.
<Hobbsee> so of course, now jono shows up...
<TheMuso> heh
<TheMuso> Well I'm outa this chan.
<jono> I am not here, currently in a meeting
<Hobbsee> ah
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 Aug 15:00 UTC: Screencast Team | 28 Aug 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 28 Aug 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 29 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 03 Sep 13:00 UTC: Community Council | 08 Sep 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-08-25
* moquist is too late for the MOTU meeting :(
<PriceChild> moquist, only 12 hours... :(
<moquist> PriceChild: really? I thought I was 2 hours late. Oh...right. I'm the OTHER way from UTC. Heh.
<moquist> Yeah, very, very late, then.
<PriceChild> hehe :P
<popey> :)
<popey> timezones do my head in
<popey> everyone should just use UTC :)
<popey> it should be the LAW!
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 Aug 15:00 UTC: Screencast Team | 28 Aug 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 28 Aug 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 29 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 01 Sep 00:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 03 Sep 13:00 UTC: Community Council
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-08-19
<huats> morning !
<leoquant> @schedule amsterdam
<ubottu> Schedule for Europe/Amsterdam: 19 Aug 13:00: Community Council | 19 Aug 17:00: Server Team | 20 Aug 19:00: QA Team | 21 Aug 00:00: Platform Team | 21 Aug 14:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 21 Aug 15:00: Desktop Team
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Community Council Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 19 Aug 15:00: Server Team | 20 Aug 17:00: QA Team | 20 Aug 22:00: Platform Team | 21 Aug 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 21 Aug 13:00: Desktop Team
<cody-somerville> CC meeting in 7-10 minutes?
<dholbach> cody-somerville: yes
<Hobbsee> oh noes!
<cody-somerville> \o/
<Hobbsee> anything interesting on?
<persia> Hmm.  ubottu claims 130 minutes
<cody-somerville> Ubottu says the meeting is right now
<ubottu> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<persia> Err no, I just don't understand timezones :(
<cody-somerville> We know
<dholbach> sabdfl is not going to make it, mdke is at work, Burgundavia and TechnoViking are not around and I tried contacting mako
<elmo> :(
<dholbach> ok, let's take a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<dholbach> 1) "Danish Team as legal entity" was discussed the last time and is being reviewed by the Loco Council AFAIK
<dholbach> 2) "Interface for Intrepid Ibex" - I don't know much about that one
<dholbach> to me it sounds more like "Desktop Team land"
<dholbach> I think I'll post the notes about we have to the desktop team and get Acelin in contact with them - what do you think elmo?
<Hobbsee> dholbach: read the /talk page...
<Hobbsee> it seems pretty clear that it's not a desktop land thing
<dholbach> 3) "Ratification of Xubuntu Strategy Document" - it seems that everybody was quite happy with it and only small changes to it were requested
<elmo> dholbach: is Danish team even on then?
<dholbach> cody-somerville: did you take a look at that?
<elmo> are we looking at /talk or the top level?
<dholbach> elmo: maybe the agenda wasn't updated
<persia> dholbach: Are you looking at the same wiki agenda as I?
<cody-somerville> dholbach, Yes. I'm waiting for a bounce back from cjwatson
<dholbach> cody-somerville: OK - do you think you could send a headsup when that happened via mail? (it doesn't look like we'll get quorum this time around)
 * cody-somerville nods.
<dholbach> and 4) the Planet issue was definitely discussed
<dholbach> persia: General agenda items on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<dholbach> oh... it was updated in the meantime
<dholbach> excusez-moi
<persia> dholbach: Yes.  I don't see any of the four you just mentioned.
<dholbach> sorry
<thorwil> hi, i removed the mentioned 4 as i'm very sure they are from last meeting
<thorwil> but only about half an hour ago
<cody-somerville> thorwil, who are you? :P
<persia> They were from the last meeting, and discussed then.
<Hobbsee> looks like it's just hte artwork guidelines stuff, then.
<dholbach> thanks thorwil
<dholbach> I'd prefer to have kwwii and sabdfl here for that one
<thorwil> definitively
<dholbach> I can write a mail to both of them, asking if they're available at the next meeting.
<thorwil> i'm not sure i can attend the next one. but a simple answer might be all that's needed :)
<dholbach> OK, I can easily CC you on the mail
<dholbach> thanks a lot
<thorwil> ok, thanks
<persia> More generally, I'm curious if 11:00 UTC is bad for a majority of Council members.  I haven't seen quorum in an 11:00 meeting in several months.
<persia> Would moving it to e.g. 13:00 UTC help with that?
<dholbach> Usually sabdfl, elmo and I are able to make it and we managed to have mako and TechnoViking around at that time too, IIRC
<dholbach> persia: but I can bring up the topic too
<persia> dholbach: Thank you.  I think April was the last successful 11:00 meeting, and it's a very convenient time for those of us in some timezones.
<dholbach> I'll make sure to point that out.
<dholbach> sorry everybody for not making quorum this time, I'll send out those emails.
<dholbach> Adjourned.
<cody-somerville> Can we have free appetizers at these meetings in the future?
<dholbach> . o O { hmmm, food... }
<Hobbsee> cody-somerville: to try and drive attendance up?
<Hobbsee> cody-somerville: congrats on the new role, btw.
<cody-somerville> Hobbsee, thanks :-]
<thorwil> shall i drop the old items from the talk page?
<persia> thorwil: Only in the case that they are documented elsewhere: otherwise we lose context, as there aren't compiled and published minutes for these meetings.
<persia> I think the "Previous Items" header makes it fairly clear until the items are more clearly sorted.
<thorwil> ok, i introduced that :)
<thorwil> persia: but maybe then the main page should have previous items, too?
<persia> thorwil: Hmm.  Maybe.  I'm not sure.  I'm afraid of losing stuff, but think clutter isn't ideal.
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 19 Aug 15:00: Server Team | 20 Aug 17:00: QA Team | 20 Aug 22:00: Platform Team | 21 Aug 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 21 Aug 13:00: Desktop Team | 25 Aug 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC
<nealmcb> @schedule denver
<ubottu> Schedule for America/Denver: 19 Aug 09:00: Server Team | 20 Aug 11:00: QA Team | 20 Aug 16:00: Platform Team | 21 Aug 06:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 21 Aug 07:00: Desktop Team | 24 Aug 22:00: Arizona LoCo IRC
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Server Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 20 Aug 17:00: QA Team | 20 Aug 22:00: Platform Team | 21 Aug 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 21 Aug 13:00: Desktop Team | 25 Aug 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC
<jdstrand> nealmcb: are you running the meeting today?
<nealmcb> yup
<jdstrand> nealmcb: hi btw! :)
<nealmcb> :)
<jdstrand> nealmcb: I am adding something to the ServerTeam/Roadmap, and would like to discuss it
<ScottK-laptop> nealmcb: I have to go in ~30 minutes, so I'd appreciate it if the spec discussion could start right away.
<sommer> hey all
<nealmcb> #startmeeting
<zul> hi
 * nealmcb listens intently for mootbot
<ScottK-laptop> Heya zul.
<zul> hi ScottK-laptop
<nealmcb> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<nealmcb> So we'll start without mootbot.  ScottK-laptop, you'd like to do some specs right off, or after the normal preliminaries"
<nijaba> @now
<ubottu> Error: Please don't use @schedule during a meeting
<emgent> #schedule rome
<emgent> @schedule rome
<ubottu> Error: Please don't use @schedule during a meeting
<ScottK-laptop> After the normal preliminaries is fine.
<nealmcb> [TOPIC] items from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20080812
<nealmcb> james_w: did you do a blog post on  removing multiuser options?
<james_w> hey
<ScottK-laptop> He did or I imagined reading it.
<james_w> sort of
<james_w> by the time I got round to writing it most of the works was done
<nealmcb> good job!  I think  foolano and kirkland won't be here for their action items.
<kirkland> nealmcb: hey, i'm hear
<kirkland> here
<nealmcb> kirkland: great.  anything on degraded raid and the release notes?
<kirkland> nealmcb: I think degraded RAID is pretty much done.  kees and slangasek sponsored the last of the patches last week.
<kirkland> nealmcb: to recap....
<jdstrand> \o/
<kirkland> nealmcb: we have now patched a) initramfs-tools to allow for configurably and interactively deciding whether to boot a degraded RAID
<kirkland> nealmcb: b) grub will detect and install multiple MBRs to disks in a mirror providing /boot
<kirkland> nealmcb: c) mdadm has the debconf entries to allow a sysadmin to switch BOOT_DEGRADED on/off
 * nealmcb cheers
<kirkland> nealmcb: not to say that there aren't other RAID bugs and issues, but this is what we set out to solve at the end of UDS
<nealmcb> ScottK-laptop: is your spec thing part of the roadmap?
<kirkland> nealmcb: and I've asked the commenters to those bugs to open new ones for new issues (as the comment #'s are in the 100s)
<ScottK-laptop> nealmcb: It's the ClamavSpamassasssin one.
<nealmcb> [TOPIC] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap
<kirkland> nealmcb: I need to update the release notes...  i'll go do that now
<nealmcb> kirkland: thanks!
<nealmcb> ScottK-laptop: go ahead with ClamavSpamassasssin spec item
 * ScottK-laptop looks around for some help.
<ScottK-laptop> Lots of people said they wanted these (clamav in particular), but except sommer, no one else has actually done anything.
<kirkland> ScottK-laptop: are you still looking for MIR-writers?
<ScottK-laptop> My time this cycle is very limited.
<ScottK-laptop> Yes.
<kirkland> ScottK-laptop: mathiaz, or I, or someone could ask for that in a blog entry
<ScottK-laptop> They aren't very technically hard, you just have to grind through the checklist.
<ScottK-laptop> kirkland: IIRC mathiaz did that already.
<arakthor> ScottK-laptop, how do I help with that?
<kirkland> ScottK-laptop: I've been very pleased with the community response to my blog entries requesting help
<kirkland> ScottK-laptop: :-S
<ScottK-laptop> arakthor: Let's chat on #ubuntu-server.  I'll explain.
<arakthor> ok
<ScottK-laptop> kirkland: I think it must intimidate people, but it's really not that hard.
<nealmcb> ScottK-laptop: or perhaps you could explain to everyone in a blog entry?  or get someone to do that?
<kirkland> ScottK-laptop: timeconsuming, yes.  but hard, no.
<nijaba> kirkland: and we have an installer option to install a mirror properly?
<kirkland> nijaba: -> #ubuntu-server
<ScottK-laptop> nealmcb: If the blog were open to community postings, I'd be more inclined, but that's another issue.
<jdstrand> ScottK-laptop: wrt clamav in particular (I mentioned this in the last meeting that I was in, but your weren't), I think it would be a great idea to have apparmor profiles for clamd and freshclam.
<zul> nijaba: eh mirror?
<jdstrand> ScottK-laptop: this will likely help in getting them accepted into main
<nealmcb> ScottK-laptop: last week I thought mathiaz invited others to post to the blog
<ScottK-laptop> jdstrand: I agree, I just would lneed someone to do them.
<jdstrand> ScottK-laptop: I have a working profile that I can contribute
<ScottK-laptop> jdstrand: Excellent.
<nealmcb> <mathiaz> I can create an contributor account for anyone interested in publishing a post on the ubuntuserver blog [
<ScottK-laptop> jdstrand: Are they somewhere were I can get them.
<jdstrand> ScottK-laptop: I'm currently using clamsmtp, so we'd need to get milter and amavis bits going
<ScottK-laptop> nealmcb: Thanks.  I wasn't here last week.
<ScottK-laptop> jdstrand: Right.
<jdstrand> ScottK-laptop: not yet, but I can make them available
<ScottK-laptop> jdstrand: I can test with amavisd-new.
<nealmcb> ScottK-laptop: so should I give you an action to get a blog account and post :)
<jdstrand> ScottK-laptop: I can't imagine it'd be much more than just adding the spool dir for each...
<ScottK-laptop> nealmcb: Not needed, but if you want to.
<jdstrand> ScottK-laptop: I'll post them somewhere and ping you
<ScottK-laptop> jdstrand: Thanks.
<ScottK-laptop> That's it.  Please note the plea for help in the minutes.
<nealmcb> [ACTION] ScottK will post a blog request for help with the ClamavSpamassasssin MIRs
<nealmcb> [TOPIC] other items from the roadmap - more spec updates?
<zul> calendaring spec is still being worked on but a little progress has been made
<kirkland> nealmcb: Init Script Status Actions...
<kirkland> nealmcb: I'm working on the remaining unpatched ones here...  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InitScriptStatusActions
<nealmcb> kirkland: great - thanks
<nealmcb> zul - looking for help?
<kirkland> nealmcb: great initial response by the community after the blog post, though new patches are getting fewer and farther between
<kirkland> nealmcb: I'm going to try and finish the rest of the server ones by the end of the week
<kirkland> nealmcb: I'd recommend the very capable individuals here in this meeting to help by fixing any init scripts that they know and love on their own servers ;-)
<nealmcb> kirkland: right - another good way to get involved with some easy patches
<zul> nealmcb: nope im good
<nealmcb> hear-ye hear-ye :)
<kirkland> nealmcb: yes, for sure, very easy, and very obvious/functional
<nealmcb> soren: anything on Ubuntu VM Builder?
<soren> Not since last meeting, I think.
<nealmcb> [TOPIC] UFW Package Integration - jdstrand
<jdstrand> as of yesterday, ufw now has support for package integration
<nealmcb> :)
<sommer> cool
<jdstrand> basically, packages can declare themselves to ufw, and users can then use these 'profiles' in ufw rules
<ScottK-laptop> jdstrand: Any chance we'll get the "Hey, you're about to cut off the ssh connection you're connecting through" option for Intrepid?
<nealmcb> note the ufw updates hot off the keyboards of jdstrand at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap
<jdstrand> eg, apache2 registers itself with ufw, and a user can do:
<jdstrand> ufw allow Apache
<jdstrand> or
<jdstrand> ufw allow 'Apache Full'
<jdstrand> ScottK-laptop: I am considering that a 'normal bug'. I may be able to get to it, but it's on my todo list
<ScottK-laptop> OK.
<jdstrand> people can read all about the ufw application integration at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFirewall
<ScottK-laptop> I think in the spirit of "Ubuntu" we really ought to have that.
<ScottK-laptop> I thought it was Uncomplicated Firewall?
<jdstrand> what is needed though, is for people to update packages to 'register' themselves with ufw
<jdstrand> ScottK-laptop: it is, unfortunately, I don't have an 'uncomplicated todo list' :P
<kirkland> jdstrand: do you have an instructional wiki page on how to do that?
<jdstrand> I will, as always, accept patches :)
<ScottK-laptop> Of course.
<jdstrand> kirkland: I am writing it now
<jdstrand> (well, not _now_, but after the meeting)
<kirkland> jdstrand: with a list of packages that need to be registered?
<nealmcb> what happens when multiple packages claim a port?
<jdstrand> nealmcb: ufw doesn't care who claims what
<jdstrand> nealmcb: eg, a profile might look like:
<jdstrand> [Apache]
<jdstrand> title=Web Server
<jdstrand> description=Apache v2 is the next generation of the omnipresent Apache web server.
<jdstrand> ports=80/tcp
<nealmcb> so they would basically be aliases for ways to open the port?
<jdstrand> so 'boa' might have a similar decalration
<jdstrand> a user can use 'ufw allow Boa', and it'll just open up that port-- if later apache is installed, it's still open
<jdstrand> nealmcb: yes
<nealmcb> what if someone thinks they can open apache but close lighttpd?
<jdstrand> 'ufw status' shows these aliases. eg:
<jdstrand> To                      Action  From
<jdstrand> --                      ------  ----
<jdstrand> Apache                  DENY    Anywhere
<jdstrand> but, ufw now has 'status verbose', that will show what is actually open (ie without the alias)
<nealmcb> (both on port 80) - do both show up in the ufw status?  both closed?
<jdstrand> nealmcb: if you did both 'Apache' and 'Boa', they both show up, and rule ordering then is in effect (eg, if one was ALLOW and the other DENY)
<nealmcb> of course they'll have other problems with two active web servers :/  but it might be confusing
<NeilW> jdstrand: how does ufw shut off the access if the package is uninstalled?
<jdstrand> nealmcb: the actually iptables rule is identical, with the exception that there is a tag (using -m comment) that links the iptables rule to an application profile
<nealmcb> hmm - the allow/deny stuff will add to the confusion.  perhaps warning about overlaps would be better?
<ScottK-laptop> See you all later.
<nealmcb> ScottK: thanks!
<nealmcb> jdstrand: but probably not a big deal for now....
<jdstrand> NeilW: by default, installed a program will not automatically do anything. however, you can use 'ufw app default allow|deny' to change that
<NeilW> jdstrand: yes, I'm thinking that a user has switched it on, and then uninstalled the package - leaving a hole.
<jdstrand> NeilW: then there is an opportunity for applications to add themselves to the running firewall during postinst
<jdstrand> NeilW: on package removal, the iptables rule remains until the user deletes it
<NeilW> So we need to pre/postrm check it.
<jdstrand> NeilW: for the most part, there isn't a lot of 'I'll do this automatically for you'
<jdstrand> NeilW: what can be done is that if you choose to change the port in the profile, you can run 'ufw app update <profile>' and it will update all rules referencing the profile to use the new port
<nealmcb> sound like some sort of dynamic package dependency - has that topic ever come up?
<jdstrand> nealmcb: dynamic package dependency?
<jdstrand> nealmcb: ufw works just fine without or without profiles installed or used
<jdstrand> nealmcb: I will detail how to update packages to 'register' themselves with ufw
<jdstrand> nealmcb: it isn't all that different from packages providing their own apparmor profiles
<nealmcb> I'm wondering if there are other cases of one package associating itself with another package, after install, such that the user would get warned about the situation when uninstalling the 2nd package
<jdstrand> nealmcb: can you provide a specific example?
<nealmcb> No - must a thought - apparmor sounds related
<nealmcb> anything else on specs?
<jdstrand> nealmcb: perhaps if I describe where help is needed, it will be more clear
<nealmcb> jdstrand: I'm sure it will, since this is so new to me :)
<jdstrand> I need community members to update packages to 'register' themselves with ufw. there are a few priority packages in ServerTeam/Roadmap, mostly ones in the server tasksel list
<nealmcb> sommer: anything on documentation?
<jdstrand> this is great for developing packaging skills, and not too hard
<sommer> almost have the ldap section converted to the new cn=config backend
<nealmcb> jdstrand: want to do a blog post?
<nijaba> jdstrand: you may want to send an email on #ubuntu-devel, don't you think?
<nealmcb> right
<jdstrand> sommer: most probably-- the man page is pretty clear, you can look at that and let me know what you think
<sommer> jdstrand: sure... I've been meaning to get with you about ufw :)
<jdstrand> the basic idea is to have a package install a profile into /etc/ufw/applications.d
<jdstrand> adjust control to 'Suggests: ufw
<jdstrand> '
<jdstrand> then adjust maintainer scripts to run 'ufw app update --add-new <profile>' on install, and cleanup after itself on purge
<jdstrand> I'm going to of course document all this, and plan to send an email to ubuntu-server
<jdstrand> nealmcb: sure, and ubuntu-devel
<jdstrand> nealmcb: the package dependencies are very loose-- ufw doesn't have any, and packages only Suggests ufw
<tarvid> after 20+ installations and 100+ updates, i feel qualified to return to the drupal on ubuntu issue
<nealmcb> sommer: thanks for the ldap stuff - anything else there?
<nealmcb> tarvid: cool - lets do that in Open Discussion - hold a bit
<sommer> nealmcb: that's pretty much it since the last meeting
<jdstrand> this package integration isn't too exciting with something as simple as apache, but with samba, it is pretty cool
<nealmcb> [TOPIC] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidReleaseSchedule
<jdstrand> ufw allow Samba
<jdstrand> that will open up all kinds of stuff :)
<jdstrand> anyhoo, that's about it
 * nealmcb hugs jdstrand
<nealmcb> drumroll.... August 28th           FeatureFreeze
 * jdstrand hugs nealmcb back :)
<nealmcb> Anything else we need to review as we prepare for the big feature freeze?  Remember, it gets harder to put cool stuff in after that.....
<NeilW> Rails support
<nealmcb> rails, drupal, and hey, how about django (near 1.0...)
<nealmcb> tarvid: why don't you go ahead now - you started first
<nealmcb> [TOPIC] Drupal
<tarvid> there have been 9 updates and major upgrade in the past year
<tarvid> most of them are security related and the update process from ubuntu is to slow to be responsive to the security needs
<tarvid> plus the package in the repository installs in var/www
<tarvid> I nver use the debian/ubuntu package anymore
<tarvid> do we want to take a fresh approach?
<nijaba> tarvid: what would you suggest?
<tarvid> installation from drupal.org is straight forward but using apt-get would be consistent with server users
<tarvid> we would have to package major modules as well
<tarvid> is that a good project for Ubuntu?
<nijaba> tarvid: Drupal is sure quite widely used, even on ubuntu.com
<tarvid> i do watch the security announcements daily
<tarvid> a user space install requires a dns entry (or hosts) an apache stanza, a user account
<nealmcb> tarvid: what are the current versions in ubuntu and upstream?  How does upstream do updates - patches to versions we have?  or new versions?
<tarvid> there is one drupal module drush which can take over the update issue
<tarvid> pool/universe/d/drupal5/drupal5_5.7-1ubuntu1_all.deb
<tarvid> current version is 5.10 and 6.4
<tarvid> there are newer but still vulnerable versions in intrepid
<nealmcb> who is packaging it for ubuntu?
<tarvid> Maintainer: Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>
<tarvid> Original-Maintainer: Luigi Gangitano <luigi@debian.org>
<nealmcb> ahh - it is "drupal5" package
<tarvid> drupal5 is not all bad, drupal6 is not mature and drupal7 is in test
<nealmcb> http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?searchon=names&keywords=drupal
<nijaba> tarvid: so, if I understand you correctly, we should provide security updates more often and provide packages for the main modules?  Would you be willing to work on this?
<tarvid> i work on drupal daily on ubuntu servers
<tarvid> with a small amount of discipline and personal development I could take on packaging
<tarvid> there are some policy issues
<tarvid> drupal provides patches for current versions but only for the previous release so we see version upgrades all the time
<tarvid> major version upgrades are difficult as modules are decommited and replaced frequently
<nealmcb> tarvid: have you talked with Luigi or other packagers?  They'd probably welcome patches :)
<tarvid> I don't do patches, I do minor version upgrades
<nealmcb> but yeah - backporting patches is a pain
<tarvid> and we would have to do both d5 and d6 and soon d7
<jdstrand> tarvid: I'm not clear on what you are proposing-- use 'drush', which automatically update the drupal install?
<tarvid> drush will update the modules but not the core
<jdstrand> (I am unfamiliar with drupal)
<tarvid> the drupal procedure for core is safe but odious
<jdstrand> (well, it's packaging/update procedures)
<tarvid> i have gotten away with overwriting and existing installation with new core on d6, on d5 you have to preserve the old config file
<tarvid> there is no way of automating d5 to d6 upgrades
<jdstrand> tarvid: ok, so drush for modules, and minor version updates for core?
<tarvid> that has worked for me, I have screwed that up with major version upgrades
<tarvid> and the apache boys do not like what you have to do with apache config "allow all"
<jdstrand> tarvid: so you are suggesting a new packaged minor version upgrade for -security each time core has a security vulnerability?
<tarvid> that would work and might be the easiest route
<tarvid> the user will get punished for patching drupal core
<tarvid> if the proprieties are observed, it is safe
<jdstrand> tarvid: assuming the user does it on his/her own
<jdstrand> tarvid: is it that much more of a pain to backport a patch than to prepare a new package version, and all the extra testing involved?
<tarvid> many drupal users are not sophisticated and avoiding disaster would be a kind thging to do
<jdstrand> the main problem I see is that drupal is community supported (ie universe), but not getting as much attention as is apparently required...
<tarvid> maybe, drush for example depends on the version numver to decide what to download when asked to install a module
<nealmcb> we want to get to rails also - can we take this to #ubuntu-server or the mailing list
<tarvid> there is also a netbeans beta for php and drupal which would be nifty to offer
<jdstrand> tarvid: we have a procedure for micro version updates at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates/MicroReleaseExceptions
<macd> nealmcb, Im here with regards to rails, not sure if NeilW is or not
 * NeilW waves
<nealmcb> macd: nice - NeilW is also
<macd> Oh, Hi there, I just wandered in
<nealmcb> so moving on....
<tarvid> netbeans does rails also
<tarvid> and i have a masochistic urger for java server alongside php
<nealmcb> [ACTION] tarvid to summarize drupal issues and propose something to the mailing list
<nealmcb> ok?
<tarvid> will do and let you move on.
<nealmcb> :)
<nealmcb> [TOPIC] Rails Integration and Rubygems
<nealmcb> see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20080722 and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20080729
<nealmcb> NeilW, macd ^?
<NeilW> Essentially I need some guys with commit privileges to review the Passenger package.
<NeilW> Mathias has done a sterling job so far.
<macd> NeilW, you updated it last week right?
<NeilW> It's bang up to date with the 2.0.3 release which is as far as Passenger goes before Feature Freeze.
<macd> NeilW, for sure there
<macd> What about RubyGems do we have any upstream communication, or are we just going to try and move away from upstream there?
 * macd recalls those are being the 2 major things outstanding
<NeilW> Upstream are going to release 1.3.0 in the next few days. I have good communication with the Rubygems developers.
 * nealmcb guesses that this is not about the top google hit for   passenger rails  [amtrak], though he can highly recommend amtrak as a civilized way to travel :P
<NeilW> I have a Rubygems package in place that allows Passenger to work properly.
<nealmcb> http://www.modrails.com/
<nealmcb> aka "phusion passenger"
<macd> NeilW, does the upstream 1.3.0 fix the path issues that have been an issue?
<NeilW> No, that is entirely down to policy.
<NeilW> So do we want Passenger in Intrepid?
<macd> I think that is the overall goal
<NeilW> Anybody else?
<macd> then the next release move towards a rails app server install task
<nealmcb> so you were asking for review - so you think  mathias will be able to do that in time, or are you  looking for other help
<NeilW> I need 2 AFAIK
<macd> nealmcb, it needs at least 2 acks, mathiaz is only 1 ;)
<nealmcb> ahh
<macd> so a few other reviewers would be great
<nealmcb> can you all post something about it to the list or blog also?  sounds of interest to lots of folks
<NeilW> Which list?
<nealmcb> ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com
<nealmcb> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server
<NeilW> I did that a while ago and didn't get a lot of takers.
<NeilW> The Ubuntu Ruby guys are well hidden!
<NeilW> Happy to have another go though.
<macd> or just non-existant ;)
<NeilW> I think there is a wider discussion about Ubuntu and Ruby
<nealmcb> I don't remember hearing about passenger before, sounds interesting
<macd> I think I sent something out on the MOTU list a few weeks ago too
<macd> asking for package reviewers
<nealmcb> anyway - thanks!
<nealmcb> [TOPIC] Open Discussion?
<nealmcb> I know we're over time, but if there is some burning issue...
<NeilW> soren: Is anything happening with Cobbler
<zul> soren: ^^^
<nealmcb> [TOPIC] Next meeting - same time same place next week?
<sommer> sure
 * nealmcb is glad to see signs of life :)
<nealmcb> OK folks - thanks!
 * nijaba agrees
<nijaba> thanks nealmcb
<nealmcb> :)
<sommer> thanks nealmcb, later on all :)
<nealmcb> now the hard part - minutes!  Unless someone else wants to do that....
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 20 Aug 17:00: QA Team | 20 Aug 22:00: Platform Team | 25 Aug 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 21 Aug 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 21 Aug 13:00: Desktop Team | 21 Aug 14:00: Ubuntu Java Team
<theteju> hello
<theteju> Every one.. I am new biee to linux-ubuntu,, need some help,, how would i join chat #ubuntu   room ?
<nizarus> theteju, /join #ubuntu
<theteju> i dont see any room labled #ubuntu on my room list
<theteju> there is one says #ubuntu-dresden
<theteju> and one says #ubuntu-meeting,, where i am in right now
<nizarus> theteju, just type /join #ubuntu
<theteju> no success
<nizarus> what error message you got ?
<theteju> nothing,, its just doing nothing once i type /join #ubuntu
<nizarus> which irc client you have ?
<theteju> Pidgin
<theteju> and my account says,, theteju@irc.ubuntu.com (IRC)
<nizarus> i used pidgin to test and i can join ubuntu room with the command :/
<theteju> any other room you suggest,, i have question regarding partitioning my harddrive for clean install in near future
<nizarus> #ubuntu-tn
<theteju> i found it
<theteju> thanks
<theteju> had to scroll down manually
<theteju> the command is not working for me ,, i dont know
<theteju> why
<nizarus> can you try with a "classical" irc client
<nizarus> such as xchat
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-08-20
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 26 Aug 15:00: Server Team | 20 Aug 17:00: QA Team | 20 Aug 22:00: Platform Team | 21 Aug 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 21 Aug 13:00: Desktop Team | 25 Aug 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 26 Aug 15:00: Server Team | 20 Aug 17:00: QA Team | 25 Aug 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 21 Aug 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 21 Aug 13:00: Desktop Team | 21 Aug 14:00: Ubuntu Java Team
<divya123> Hello everybody .How do I make work Odesk team on ubuntu 8.0.4 hardy?Any help?
<divya123> Any one knows how to set up oDesk team in Ubuntu Hardy?IF yes please hel p me doing this
<vistakiller> go to #ubuntu channel
<divya123> I couldn't any such channel over the list
<Laney> @schedule london
<ubottu> Schedule for Europe/London: 26 Aug 16:00: Server Team | 20 Aug 18:00: QA Team | 25 Aug 05:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 21 Aug 13:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 21 Aug 14:00: Desktop Team | 21 Aug 15:00: Ubuntu Java Team
<davmor2> hello heno_ :)
<heno_> hey davmor2 :)
<pedro_> hello everybody!
 * ogasawara waves
<davmor2> hiya pedro_
<pedro_> hey davmor2
<davmor2> hello ogasawara
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: QA Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 25 Aug 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 21 Aug 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 21 Aug 13:00: Desktop Team | 21 Aug 14:00: Ubuntu Java Team
<heno_> hey all!
<intellectronica> hi
<sbeattie> hey
<LaserJock> o/
<heno_> I'm in millbank this week with the distro team leads
<davmor2> intellectronica: your nick sounds like something from a woody allen or mel brooks film ;)
<heno_> sorry if I've been unresponsive on IRC/email
<heno_> (and I was on holiday last week)
<intellectronica> davmor2: in fact, it's something from a Stanislav Lem book, so not very far
<davmor2> :)
<davmor2> heno_: have a good hol?
<ara> intellectronica: thanks to autocompletation it is not such a pain to type your nick completely ;-)
 * stgraber waves
<intellectronica> ara: it would be hard to compete with yours ;)
<heno_> I understand there was an LP/ubuntu IRC meeting on monday, but we failed to invite community participation :(
<LaserJock> heno_: where was that?
<ara> heno_: no, it was the canonical qa meeting this week
<heno_> could we have a volunteer for that for the next meeting in ~10 days?
<intellectronica> indeed. my apologies. we were organising it quickly and i simply didn't know who might be interested
<ara> heno_: no, you are write. i was off this monday :-)
<emgent> hello
<heno_> ara: np :)
<davmor2> intellectronica: if all else fails you could ping #ubuntu-quality
<intellectronica> davmor2: good idea. should have thought about it myself
<LaserJock> heno_: would an email to ubuntu-qa with an agenda suffice you think to get some attendance?
<heno_> LaserJock: sounds good
<intellectronica> shall we move that meeting at #malone-ubuntu-qa-meeting from now on, and leave it open to whoever wants to join?
<heno_> or/and holding it in an open channel
<LaserJock> intellectronica: you could even do it in #ubuntu-quality :-)
<heno_> I think there is value to having voice discussions as well
<intellectronica> LaserJock: heh, true :)
<intellectronica> heno_: i very much agree
<nullack> Can the meeting start please, its 3:08am here :)
<heno_> how can we allow for that as well?
<heno_> #startmeeting
<heno_> sorry
<persia> I'd like to request that meetings generally happen here unless there is an overriding reason to do it somewhere else: the bot here helps advertise the meeting, and many interested parties will idle here.
<heno_> we are in fact on agenda item #1 now
<LaserJock> heno_: perhaps on an as-needed basis based on a felt need in the IRC meeting?
<persia> What's the link for the agenda again?
<heno_> persia: agreed
<LaserJock> persia: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
<intellectronica> persia: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
<persia> Thanks :)
<intellectronica> LaserJock: high five
<heno_> does anyone know what the limit on skype conf calls is ATM? is that 5 or can it be worked around?
<intellectronica> iirc it's still 5
<nullack> What if we used team speak or something?
<heno_> that would probably be better than phone for many
<LaserJock> well, realistically having more than 5 people in a voice conversation is going to get messy anyway
<heno_> nullack: can you expand on it's features and what's needed to run it?
<stgraber> heno_: a teamspeak server and the client, it can have multiple channels and some moderation. But it's non-free
<heno_> (I think we used it at UDS once)
<nullack> Its used typically in gaming for teams of people = free to use, uses UDP, you can setup security on your chan, multiple servers
<stgraber> IIRC it was used at UDS-Paris
<heno_> indeed
<nullack> There is alternative non free
<heno_> skype is non-free too though
<intellectronica> actually, skype may allow up to 10 users now (but we'll have to check)
<heno_> stgraber: would you be comfortable hosting conversations?
<pedro_> intellectronica: indeed -> http://share.skype.com/sites/en/2006/02/we_now_have_10way_conference_c.html
<persia> I think that "mumble" is the name of the free teamspeak like thing.
<intellectronica> i would give skype a priority (despite being non-free) if it works at all. when it does work, it tends to be simpler to use than oterh solutions. in my team we've tried many different solutions and ended up coming back to skype every time
<heno_> I agree
<intellectronica> and i have the required hardware for hosting 10 people calls, so i'm happy to host
<davmor2> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Ekiga do the list is conference calls it sounds feasible
<stgraber> heno_: I'm doing some TS hosting for some game team so I can just add a servr to that host yes
<heno_> excellent, thanks
<ScottK> FYI the current Skype client does not work well in Hardy Kubuntu.  Dunno about Gnome.
<heno_> ScottK: is that the binary from the skype site?
<pedro_> ScottK: it works fine for me with in Gnome with Hardy and Intrepid
<ScottK> Yes.
<intellectronica> ScottK: works fine for me, but on some installations you need to use the portaudio wrapper to make sure it interoperates well with the sound system
<ScottK> intellectronica: I'd appreciate some additional info on that outside the meeting.
<heno_> it may also have issues on 64 bit systems
<ScottK> Mine are all 32bit.
<heno_> ok
<ScottK> I had more luck with the one for Sid than Ubuntu, but maybe I should try it again.
<davmor2> I run skype on my n800 only
<heno_> let's try skype for the next LP/Ubuntu meeting
<cgregan> Perhaps a naive question, but, we need a free tool for conversations....there are a few out there..why not focus some of the community testing/dev resources attention toward one and get it in shape? Ekiga Week...or something.
<heno_> but we should also be on IRC
<heno_> that's a point, but the world uses skype, which we also need to support
<heno_> on a related topic intellectronica and bdmurray have combined the feedback from the prioritisation discussion
<intellectronica> i have passed this to the launchpad mgmt team for consideration, b.t.w
<LaserJock> is that available somewhere?
<intellectronica> iirc it will be discussed next week
<intellectronica> LaserJock: it's in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/LaunchpadBugsFeaturePriorities
<LaserJock> hmm, I thought TagDiscipline was much higher on the list
<heno_> hm, looks like that doesn't have updated numbers
<intellectronica> i may have missed something. i thought that wiki page was updated to reflect the latest discussions, but i may have been wrong
<heno_> I'm afraid that's fallen between chairs, sorry
<intellectronica> does anyone know where i can find the latest decisions? i'm happy to update this page from the data
<bdmurray> I believe some people replied with their opinion to the ubuntu-qa mailing list
<heno_> I was meant to but never got to it and though you guys had picked that up
<heno_> bdmurray: right but some synthesis work is needed
<bdmurray> right
<heno_> OK, I'll take that tomorrow then
<intellectronica> i don't mind collecting this data from the list, but i think someone from your team will need to ok this before i submit
<heno_> I had actually promised to do that 10 days ago
<bdmurray> We could add columns for each member perhaps? then heno could synthesize it
<LaserJock> related to that, I'm not sure the MOTU column is exactly needed ;-)
<heno_> I think I may take a more hand-wavy approach
<intellectronica> bdmurray: wouldn't that be overkill? remember also, that we want results fairly quickly, before the end of the week
<intellectronica> LaserJock: no, MOTU is done elsewhere
<heno_> I'll read the list and meeting log
<LaserJock> the meeting log should be pretty good, we were able to thrash things out a bit
<heno_> indeed
<heno_> if we're done with that, I have a new topic
<heno_> QA server
<LaserJock> did we cover the first agenda item?
<heno_> intellectronica: did you get your questions answered?
<intellectronica> heno_: sort of. i think we'll have to make sure that we're sorted well before the next summit meeting
<intellectronica> we have two weeks, though, so i'll try to talk to people until then
<LaserJock> I haven't seen thekorn around, I was sort of waiting on his reply to my email :/
<heno_> right. time and place will be monday in ~10 days in #ubuntu-quality
<heno_> what should be the time, 16.00 UTC?
<intellectronica> that's the current time, so unless it's inconveninent for someone who wants to participate, let's leave it like that
<ara> +1
<heno_> let's all make sure we have skype working by then
<intellectronica> i'll host the meeting on skype, and try to gather people (up to 10 of them :) in the run up to the meeting
<heno_> *cough*
<heno_> intellectronica: thanks
<heno_> [TOPIC]: QA server
<LaserJock> let's have an agenda set prior though :-)
<heno_> on the wiki
<persia> Wait, what's happening in #ubuntu-quality?  Why not here?
<LaserJock> persia: I don't think anything's happening in #ubuntu-quality, it's a voice meeting
<heno_> persia: it's primarily a voice meeting
<persia> OK.  I just saw "time and place will be monday in ~10 days in #ubuntu-quality" which didn't seem to match what else I was reading.
<heno_> with a precense on IRC for those with skype problems ;)
<persia> RIght.  No reason not to pass URLs, etc. for a voice meeting in #ubuntu-quality: most of us are likely to be there anyway :)
<heno_> persia: my bad
<persia> heno_: Or just me having trouble understanding things at this time of night :)
<heno_> QA server>
<heno_> I understand a new box is now installed and powered up in the DC
<ara> that's great news
<heno_> where we can move our package info pages, bug helper scripts, graphs etc
<heno_> we need to give feedback on what URLs and such we want
<bdmurray> Its still missing a dns entry though right?
<LaserJock> .... so is it just as tight as usual DC access?
<heno_> qa.ubuntu.com is currently the 'portal'
<sbeattie> we have cron access, etc?
<heno_> bdmurray: right
<heno_> sbeattie: we should, yes
<ara> is it documented somewhere how to access?
<heno_> should we still use *.qa.u.c ut forward the root URL to the drupal box?
<ara> or not yet?
<bdmurray> ara: I can talk to you about that
<ara> bdmurray: ok, thanks
<heno_> ara: it's not set up yet, but it will be now when we say what we want on it etc
<heno_> Lamont is handling it
<heno_> stgraber: do you have strong feelings about the dns handling?
<heno_> and where will the package pages live?
<heno_> status.qa.u.c/firefox etc?
<stgraber> heno_: just let me read the backlog
<stgraber> oh, we have a new box. Happy to hear that :)
<heno_> stgraber and ogasawara: can you two agree on the namespace for the package pages?
<stgraber> *. pointing to Drupal was done with the multiple trackers in mind, now I'd rather like to remove some of them so I guess it's fine to just drop that entry
<stgraber> in the devel branch, package status are on : http://pkgstatus.qa.ubuntu.com/<package name>
<heno_> ok, cool
<LaserJock> heno_: who's gonna have access to this box?
<heno_> so we just need to agree on the first part of that URL
<heno_> LaserJock: that will be Canonical folks only unfortunately
<heno_> that's IS policy for the DC
<LaserJock> heno_: ok
<heno_> should it be 'status', 'pkgstatus', ...?
<bdmurray> maybe status since there will be team pages too
<heno_> right
<LaserJock> so is this in addition to the qa.ubuntu.com box?
<stgraber> well, at least for this box Canonical QA guys can access it, AFAIK they couldn't access kumquat (current qa.ubuntu.com) :)
<stgraber> so it's "more open" than what we currently have (need to ask sysadmins for every changes we want to make)
<LaserJock> so is the plan to move qa.ubuntu.com to the new box?
<heno_> do we have consensus on 'status'?
<persia> If we have things that need access of one sort or another, we might be able to ask the Ubuntuwire folk for some hosting, although UWSA has their own set of policies.
<heno_> LaserJock: not the portal, as that's drupal
<ogasawara> heno_:  'status' is fine with me
<stgraber> LaserJock: I guess only python stuff will run on the new box
<LaserJock> heno_: ah, I see
<LaserJock> stgraber: heh, I see
<LaserJock> I think we should maybe have a wiki page for QA resources
<LaserJock> that would list the boxen available and what their limitations are
<heno_> And this is a php-free box
<heno_> the drupal box is php-only
<heno_> ok, let's go with that
<heno_> any other business?
<stgraber> heno_: it's not php-only, we have some python code too (syncronisation with LP)
<LaserJock> we could then also list QA-related services that aren't hosted on one of those 3 so people can see where things are at
<heno_> stgraber: could you give a list of the URLs that will need forwarding?
<heno_> qa.* and iso.qa.*
<heno_> for sure
<stgraber> brainstorm too
<stgraber> blog
<heno_> what else do we still need at this point
<stgraber> firefox ?
<heno_> brainstorm as it's on entry at bs.u.c though
<stgraber> right
<heno_> right, firefox gets used still
<stgraber> wait a second, I'll have a look at the DB
<stgraber> firefox.qa.ubuntu.com, iso.qa.ubuntu.com, qa.ubuntu.com, blog.qa.ubuntu.com, status.qa.ubuntu.com
<stgraber> and we then drop: kernel.qa.ubuntu.com, server.qa.ubuntu.com, xorg.qa.ubuntu.com
<heno_> sounds good
<heno_> and we may redirect iso.qa a few weeks after intrepid is out :)
<stgraber> yeah
<heno_> anything else, shall we wrap up?
<stgraber> nothing here
<stgraber> except that my home internet is quite broken atm so don't expect me to do much ISO testing or be able to attend a phone call before a few weeks (hopefully days)
<davmor2> :(
<ara> :(
<sbeattie> Just wanted to thank everyone who helped knock down the pending SRU queue, it's looking better.
<heno_> right. and I'll still be a bit tricky to contact until Monday
<heno_> as I'm still sprinting
<heno_> full day of talks still tomorrow and friday
<davmor2> stgraber: I might not be around for the next alpha on holiday :(  so please get it fixed :)
<stgraber> I'll try :)
<nullack> heh
<stgraber> connection at work is good though, I may download here and test at home
<sbeattie> Oh, were we going to try to do a global bug testing session?
<heno_> let me just finish by pointing everyone at http://people.ubuntu.com/~brian/graphs/
<stgraber> if I'm lucky I can then use rsync
<heno_> look at New bugs over the past 30 days
<heno_> it's down by about 2000 bugs!
<davmor2> cool :)
<heno_> testing Jam> good idea
<pedro_> nice ;-)
<heno_> I mentioned it for Jono today
<ara> cool :-)
<heno_> who will ask Daniel to have a look at helping set that up
<heno_> based on his work with the bug jam
<heno_> should we aim for around beta some time?
<bdmurray> I was saying that seemed too late
<heno_> should that include both iso and sru testing of some form?
<LaserJock> at this point I think the earliest we can feasibly get it organized is best
<bdmurray> We want to have it well before kernel freeze as an ISO testing jam would reveal those bugs the most
<bdmurray> Since everyone will be testing on different hardware
<heno_> bdmurray: because it takes longer to get people trained up to test properly before final or because the bugs are less useful that late?
<cr3> heno_: could we take the opportunity of the testing jam to introduce automated testing and encourage people to contribute scripts?
<heno_> cr3: indeed, how is that looking btw?
<cr3> heno_: should we have the testcases wiki page ready before the testing jam so that they could also contribute manual tests
<davmor2> heno_: Yes I think people enabling proposed and not wanting to move to intrepid can hit sru
<heno_> perhaps we should run it more like a testing open week with tutorials
<davmor2> can I get an extra confirmation on a bug please can someone try and use ekiga to connect to 500@ekiga.net ?
<heno_> rather than aiming for testing volume
<LaserJock> well, in my mind I was sort of thinking of it like an install fest
<cr3> heno_: what do you mean by "how is that looking"? enabling the community to submit results to the certification server?
<davmor2> it should just hang straight up :(
<LaserJock> except when it breaks, rather than saying "Ubuntu sucks!" people will file bugs :-)
<heno_> we would rather build up some good testers than test lots of stuff poorly
<cr3> LaserJock: perhaps we should have sucks.ubuntu.com redirect to bugs.launchpad.net
<LaserJock> heno_: probably a combination of both would happen
<heno_> agreed
<LaserJock> good hardware coverage is good, even if the testing quality isn't all that great
<LaserJock> basic, does it install? does it boot? is great there
<LaserJock> but then we do want to get testing past basically ISO/installation testing I'm guessing
<persia> Given the history of the "Global Bug Jam", I'd advocate first getting something like "Test Days" in analog to "Bug Days".  Then, look for LoCo integration with a few pilots, and only after the procedure is well documented, try for a big Global effort.
<nullack> Laserjock: especially if good services like apport have good functionality users skill wont be the limiting factor with a wider hardware test
<heno_> how should we track testing
<heno_> ?
<heno_> should we set up a fake milestone in the iso tracker?
<LaserJock> persia: yeah, I was hoping we could move fast enough to get a Testing Jam in before Intrepid, but I'm starting to think that's a bit too ambitious
<heno_> and how early can we pull one off
<ara> we could set up something similar to session based testing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Session-based_testing
<heno_> if we down scale it we can do it sooner
<LaserJock> I like the idea of having a few Testing Days
<heno_> i.e. not use the word global just yet
<heno_> I agree with persio that we should build it a bit gradually
<LaserJock> to be more tutorial, work on the documentation and tools
<persia> My memory was that it took about a year to go from the concept of Bug Jam to the Global Bug Jam.
<heno_> but we should aim to do the first 'small' day soon
<persia> With concerted effort, this could probably be 5-6 months, but sooner would be hard.
<LaserJock> well, I was sort of banking on "standing on the shoulders of giants" and not taking so long ;-)
<persia> Maybe announce a special "Testing Day" to coincide with the release of the next Alpha, to be conducted in #ubuntu-testing?
<persia> Send lots of mail, and make sure to schedule people to be active and talking about their testing for all 49 hours of the international day.
<persia> That's the model that worked to get Bug Days up and running.
<LaserJock> +1
<persia> (way back in Hoary/Breezy days)
<persia> Oh, for the 5-6 month effort, I'll break it down:
 * heno_ wait for the release schedule page to load
<persia> 2 months to get people adapted to attending regular Testing Days
<persia> 1 month to organise the first couple LoCos running a Testing Jam
<persia> 1 month to review, discuss, and document the experience and prepare a guide for next time, perhaps including a trial of the updates with a couple other LoCos.
<persia> Another month of press blitz to spread the word about the new working process, and let all the LoCos schedule space and prepare for a Global Jam.
<persia> That's 5, but I think it's an agressive schedule.
<persia> 6 would be having the updated procedure trial in a separate month from review/discussion.
<ara> split?
<persia> Indeed.
<Treenaks> quite
<heno__> sorry my wireless dropped out
<ara> well, a lot of people dropped
<heno__> I was going to suggest Tuesday before Alpha 5 as a testing day
<heno__> and perhaps do them for the remaining milestones
<persia> I think for the first day, it may be better to be post-Alpha.  While this may not be a core testing day, it would mean that the normal testers are more likely to have time to support the new testers.
<sbeattie> Hrm, alpha 5 release coincides with the developer week, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Prep
<sbeattie> would we want to tie in with that?
<persia> Also, the new testers are sure to find a couple minor issues that also need reporting, but will need guidance on using the various trackers, etc.
<heno__> but we really need people to get their head around how the test crunch works
<persia> Oh.  That's not ideal.  One can rarely get people's attention for more than a couple hours during Developer Week.
<davmor2> heno__: beta might be better
<heno__> and regular testers will be a bit tired of testing after the release :)
<persia> heno__: Sure, people need to understand that, but I think showing them the procedures the first time will make the new testers feel more successful, and you can add the pressure the second time, when you have a larger group that understands what needs doing.
<persia> And the regular testers will probably find they are spending time helping the new testers test and report, rather than actually testing (at least this was my experience during the early Bug Days)
<nullack> Or dealing with existing issues - the known issues list should probably be expanded
<heno__> should it be a weekday (friday after alpha 5 then say)?
<heno__> weekend days were quite slow past open week
<heno__> AFAIR
<heno__> davmor2, sbeattie: are you happy with the Friday?
<persia> We ran the first bug days on the weekends, and nobody came.  We switched to weekdays, and got some people, but many of them complained they should have been on the weekends.  I'm really not sure how to interpret that data...
<heno__> sept 5th
<davmor2> heno__: I will still be on holiday :(
<davmor2> I get back sunday 7th
<heno__> ok
<heno__> ara, stgraber, cr3: any views on the Friday?
<sbeattie> heno__: it fits my schedule, I think.
<ara> heno__: i will be travelling for the weekend (london) that weekend
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 21 Aug 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 26 Aug 15:00: Server Team | 21 Aug 13:00: Desktop Team | 25 Aug 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 21 Aug 14:00: Ubuntu Java Team | 22 Aug 12:00: Ubuntu MOTU
<ara> heno__: therefore, i wont be able to stay after 2pm (madrid time)
<sbeattie> I'm just concerned about persia's point about it being hard to get people's attention during developer week.
<heno__> we should make it clear that the alpha 6 day and beyond will be pre-milestone though
<heno__> sbeattie: for a Friday even?
<sbeattie> heno__: -ENOCLUE, persia?
<persia> Depends on what gets scheduled for Friday.  It's often a full schedule for both Friday and Saturday, by the end of scheduling.
<heno__> let's try that and see how it goes
<persia> Anyway, despite my preference for having meetings here, we're half an hour overtime, and it doesn't feel like we're still on an agenda: should we be in #ubuntu-quality?
<heno__> we're at 90 minutes now, let's wrap up
<heno__> indeed
<cr3> Friday sounds good
<heno__> #endmeeting
<stgraber> +1
<stgraber> (for friday)
<heno__> thanks everyone!
<nullack> Thanks for allowing me to contirbute while not a member of the team
<heno__> nullack: you can be a member if you like :)
<ara> :)
<nullack> :)
<heno__> esp. when you contribute!
<ara> see you!
<heno__> I've go to run again
<tamer_> anyone knows where to get more sources for deb packages ?
 * slangasek waves
<james_w> hi all
<evand> hi
 * ArneGoetje yawns
<asac> hi
<TheMuso> Hey folks.
<cjwatson> good evening
<cjwatson> sorry for lack of mail, I have been mail-impaired this week
<calc> hi
<cjwatson> my home server has been helpfully coming online for just long enough to download my mail and delete it from the server, and then vanishing again
<evand> ouch
<TheMuso> ouch indeed.
<liw> urf
<cjwatson> bryce,ogra: around?
<bryce> heya
<james_w> cjwatson: I guess you didn't get mail from kees about the meeting?
<cjwatson> I did, but ... err ... I can't remember what it said, only that he had something to discuss
<cjwatson> sorry, I feel like my umbilical cord has been cut
<james_w> yeah, he didn't say, but I wondered if you realised he wanted some time tonight
<cjwatson> I did, he doesn't seem to be here though ...
<cjwatson> anyway, we can start in his absence
<james_w> I just dropped him a reminder
<cjwatson> any outstanding actions from last week? most of the things in the report seem to have been dealt with
<cjwatson> has any testing been done on end-to-end 256MB installs with compcache?
<cjwatson> ArneGoetje: how goes language-selector? (you said "next week")
<kees> hi, sorry, I was off by a day
<asac> wasnt that ogra's topic?
<asac> (compcache)
<ArneGoetje> cjwatson: I'm currently testing and debugging it.
<cjwatson> asac: yeah, I'm guessing he's rightly taking it easy at the moment
<asac> exactly
<ArneGoetje> cjwatson: still some things to fix in the UI
<cjwatson> needs help, or under control?
<ArneGoetje> cjwatson: unfortunately mvo will be on vacation next week... so it has to be finished this week, or will need a FF excpetion...
<cjwatson> perhaps somebody else (james?) can stand in if there is a current list of broken things
<ArneGoetje> cjwatson: if someone with PyGTK experience could help, it would be great
<liw> ArneGoetje, what kind of problems are you having? (I'm tackling with PyGTK myself, for system-cleaner, and I've done some PyGTK programming before, so maybe I can help?)
<cjwatson> we have plenty of those people, so send a list to ubuntu-devel@ or distro-team@ if you're still stuck by the end of the week
<james_w> you can feel free to send some questions my way
<ArneGoetje> cjwatson: ok, will do
<cjwatson> calc: while ooo-langpacks isn't quite FF as such, it shouldn't drag on too late; I'm glad you're making progress with it
<cjwatson> calc: any more news on openoffice.org testing?
<calc> cjwatson: yea, looking into the OOo split now as well, it might solve the issue for us
<cjwatson> calc: I was about to install it myself, but for some reason the en-gb langpacks don't seem to have been built; is there a reason the -l10n package just builds en-us at the moment?
<calc> cjwatson: i got a few testers, mostly good reports so far, one about the splash screen being the old 2.4 one, heh :)
<calc> cjwatson: yea the languages aren't finished yet in beta2
<calc> cjwatson: supposed to be ready for rc1 next week
<cjwatson> oh, just not available upstream
<calc> yea
<cjwatson> ok, I'll install it tomorrow and try it out for a few things then
<cjwatson> slangasek: I gather that /etc/fstab thing got fixed? sorry about that, that was my fault
<cjwatson> very impressive bug, not the sort of thing I'd ever have thought of in advance
<slangasek> cjwatson: I was only peripherally involved, but I saw that mario and pitti came up with a solution for alpha-4, yes
<asac> cjwatson: from what i remember the fix was rather a quick-fix .... provided by mario .. so you or evand probably want to look into a good solution still ;)
<cjwatson> yeah, it's not perfect but will do for now
<cjwatson> ok, milestoned bugs
<cjwatson> (brief pause while I look up the list)
<cjwatson> calc: are the OOo ones blocked on upstream, or fixable in current packages?
<cjwatson> asac: n-m/resolvconf (256480)?
<calc> cjwatson: iirc they should all be fixed when i make the rc1 upload
<cjwatson> bryce: keypad lock button? (91056)
<calc> cjwatson: i haven't verified whether it would be done with beta2, but then beta2 has no translations yet
<asac> cjwatson: i have a patch for that. actually i have two patches, whether we need the more complex one relies on whether we want to use the ifupdown backend (eni)
<bryce> looking
<asac> cjwatson: but more on that during "other business"
<bryce> odd, thought that was fixed
<cjwatson> up to you to mark it as such if it is :)
<bryce> ah looks like just that bdmurray typo'd - said it was fixed when he meant WASN'T fixed
<bryce> I'll look into it more.  not sure it's critical enough to be a milestone bug, and I suspect it's probably an issue in gnome rather than X, but I'll dig into it
<cjwatson> I have a few intrepid-targeted bugs: germinate is putting apt in the wrong seed and we need to figure out what to do (254042), oem-config is screwed (several bugs), and there's something busted in encrypted LVM
<evand> hrm
<cjwatson> I don't think any of the other intrepid-targeted bugs need discussion here at the moment, but I have that on my standing agenda now so try to give them a bit of gardening before the next meeting
<cjwatson> sponsorship queue
<cjwatson> I think mdz sent out a mail to indicate that all Canonical distro team staff with upload privileges should be spending an hour a week on the sponsorship queue (less if the queue is empty or if there's really nothing you can sponsor)
<cjwatson> talk to me if this is going to be a major problem; usually sponsorship pays back the time spent eventually
<TheMuso> Hrm I don't remember seeing that, will have to have a look for it.
<cjwatson> he may not have sent it yet; we've discussed it and he's going to
<bryce> cjwatson: that keyboard bug is low priority and has been around for quite a while (I have looked at it live with brian a couple times).  I've dropped the milestone but will leave it assigned to me.  It's not a keyboard hotplug issue.
<cjwatson> bryce: ok, thanks
<TheMuso> Ok thats fine then.
<cjwatson> for those who have managed to remain unaware of it despite Daniel's pings, the queue is at http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/
<slangasek> so it's suggested that we pick through that list ourselves now, rather than waiting for dholbach to farm them out to sponsors?
<cjwatson> I'll give an amnesty this time round, but for next meeting, please expect to be asked about anything old with your name against it in that queue; sometimes we may want to drop it or assign to somebody else
<cjwatson> slangasek: no, dholbach will still be assigning it out, but there's some concern that it's not getting done despite assignment
 * slangasek nods
<cjwatson> and I want to make sure it does get done, since it's important in retaining contributors
<slangasek> I had a run where mine aren't getting done, but now I'm caught up and haven't gotten any new sponsorship assignments in the past few weeks
<slangasek> maybe that means dholbach gave up on me :/
 * TheMuso notices a few he didn't know about... Will attend to them today/tomorrow.
<cjwatson> I'm hoping we can get into a routine of checking them weekly
<cjwatson> I plan to myself, I have a few there
<cjwatson> jono pointed out that an hour a week of Canonical's uploaders comes out to roughly one full-time person's worth
<cjwatson> which I think ought to be pretty useful
<cjwatson> ok, was there anything in activity reports that needs discussion here, bearing in mind that my e-mail is down? :-/
<slangasek> well, I broke pam this morning
<slangasek> then I fixed it
<slangasek> so don't upgrade to the wrong version :)
<cjwatson> asac: you mentioned network-manager and /e/n/i
<asac> 1. a broadband provider database with a NM wizard was released this week. i am working closely with the author to flash out any rough edges, but since its young i expect that we need a feature freeze exception for this great new feature
<asac> an initial test version is available in: https://edge.launchpad.net/~kaijanmaki/+archive
<asac> you might need the https://edge.launchpad.net/~network-manager/+archive as well in your sources
<asac> s/broadband/mobile broadband/
<asac> 2. i managed to get the eni backend in a usable state. the problem with that is that using that together with ifupdown installed can cause issues
<asac> in particular that we end up having two wpa_supplicant instances running for interfaces configured to use wpa- stanzas
<cjwatson> asac: we don't need an FF exception yet ;-)
<cjwatson> I'm really, really scared of n-m conflicting with ifupdown
<cjwatson> it opens a can of worms that we have managed to avoid so far
<bryce> cjwatson: (btw kees is in channel now)
<cjwatson> it seems worth going to some lengths to avoid that; for instance can we just have ifupdown ignore wpa- stanzas?
<asac> cjwatson: one option would be to put the new backend to a separate binary package that then conflicts with ifupdown, but which we dont install by default for now
<liw> if ifupdown and n-m conflict, and n-m is unable to bring up the interface, things are going to get ugly
<kees> maybe when n-m doesn't think I'm offline with my bridge on VLAN interfaces... :)
<asac> cjwatson: making ifupdown ignoring wpa- stanzas would mean that ifupdown cannot handle wpa anymore
<asac> kees: what kind of setup is that? have you tried to do the same with 0.7?
<kees> asac: 0.7 is what started causing my problems.
<asac> kees: true. most likely because it ignores /etc/network/interfaces atm
<kees> asac: I have eth0 split onto multiple tagged VLANs.  I've also got a br0 set up on one of them for bridged kvm to work
<kees> asac: ah-ha
<asac> whereas 0.6 was forced to expose "always-online" when anything was configured there
<asac> anyway. i see that people are two scared about replacing ifupdown by default. thus i suggest to do two ifupdown backends:
<asac> 1. a simple one that sets all devices configured there to "not-managed"
<asac> 2. the real backend that tries to provide legacy support
<asac> with 1. being installed by default, but 2. conflicting with ifupdown
<cjwatson> 1. corresponds roughly to what we did before, although we were slightly finer-grained
<asac> how were we finer-grained?
<asac> cjwatson: in 0.6 we ignored all interfaces that are configured in /etc/network/interfaces and pretended "always-online" ... in 0.7 we would just refuse to manage those interfaces through NM ... seems like the same granularity to me.
<cjwatson> we didn't ignore 'inet dhcp' for instance
<cjwatson> depends on your definition of "configured"
<asac> cjwatson: we ignore that since gutsy
<asac> in feisty auto inet dhcp was still managed, but we dont do that anymore
<cjwatson> oh, I completely forgot about the ifblacklist_migrate stuff, sorry, you're right
<asac> remember, we have that migfration thing
<cjwatson> in that case I like your suggestion
<asac> good. actually if its just the system-config plugin that conflicts with ifupdown we can easily decide what to use by default
<cjwatson> yes, that gives us a good deal more flexibility
<cjwatson> ok
<cjwatson> kees: what was the item you wanted to bring up?
<kees> procps has carried an ever-growing collection of ubuntu-specific sysctl settings.  Recently, Debian introduced the idea of /etc/sysctl.d for packages to install their own defaults.
<kees> I'd like to move the Ubuntu sysctls from /etc/sysctl.conf into separate /etc/sysctl.d/ files, but I have been thinking this should maybe be a separate package, instead of continuing the "patch against procps" way things have been going.
<kees> I'd like to use "sysctl-ubuntu" (and have procps depend on it).  Other packages (for example, wine) would like to set sysctls too, so they could follow the naming convention and use something like "sysctl-lowmem" (for wine and dosemu).
<kees> Does this sound right, or should I continue to just keep the sysctl files in procps where they've always lived?
<slangasek> kees: any (overarching) reason these sysctl changes are unsuitable for submission to Debian?
<cjwatson> sysctl-ubuntu sounds a bit like etc-ubuntu
<kees> slangasek: Debian appears to follow a policy of not actually setting anything in sysctl.conf
<kees> slangasek: it's just filled with commented examples
<slangasek> ah
<slangasek> any reason not to change these values in the kernel package, then? :)
<kees> slangasek: push-back from the kernel team, and higher discoverability
<slangasek> ok
<kees> I'm okay with keeping in procps (I actually have this merge prepared) but figured I should ask about it, since it seemed kind of modular
<kees> honestly, things like the inotify bump should go into tracker's package.
<kees> but things like network and process security don't have an obvious home
<cjwatson> I prefer "core" things being in procps, personally, though I only peripherally care
 * slangasek agrees on both counts
<kees> okay, sounds good to me.  I'd already started a kind of numbering-convention, and I can move stuff around as needed.
<cjwatson> we do have a lot of gross stuff in there, and even worse it's architecture-specific
<kees> I'll toss the inotify stuff at tracker, and leave the rest in procps, but broken out into files.
<cjwatson> so I'm all for it being cleaned up a bit
<kees> cjwatson: only 1 thing is arch-specific (ppc)
<cjwatson> yeah, I know, I'm afraid that bit is my fault
<kees> it'll be much more clean in separate files, that's for sure.  I'll go flush that merge in a few minutes then.  thanks!
<cjwatson> as other business, I thought I should also give a summary of what I/we've been doing this week: getting back from holiday etc., reviewing the 2008 strategic plan (all of Monday!), some UDS and sprint planning, talking about the sponsorship queue and code review, going through our current commercial engagements, helping kirkland out with a bunch of installer work (iscsi, ecryptfs, landscape), and giving LP 3.0 development ...
<cjwatson> ... priority feedback to kiko
<cjwatson> any other other business?
<bryce> yes
<kirkland> yeah, a big fat public thanks from /me to cjwatson ;-)
<cjwatson> bryce: go ahead
<bryce> I'm nearing the end of my 3-month stint for meeting minutes author (1 meeting to go), so am looking forward to handing off the duty to a new soul
<cjwatson> well remembered that man
<bryce> (also I guess this is where we'd talk about new meeting times as well)
 * TheMuso looks. Its gone that fast? Wow!
<cjwatson> IIRC we had a proposal that involved a standard rotation, so I'll dig that out
<james_w> I have an item as well when this one is dispensed with
<bryce> cjwatson: sounds good.
<ArneGoetje> cjwatson: wasn't it -8 hours each time?
<cjwatson> for the sake of time in this meeting, please can somebody volunteer by e-mail to me by next week, otherwise I'll nominate somebody
<cjwatson> ArneGoetje: I think so
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-08-21
<cjwatson> so that would be next meeting but one, by bryce's count
<cjwatson> james_w: go
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 25 Aug 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 21 Aug 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 21 Aug 14:00: Ubuntu Java Team | 22 Aug 12:00: Ubuntu MOTU | 23 Aug 13:00: Xubuntu Community | 26 Aug 15:00: Server Team
<james_w> I did the mono-tools merge after we handed out the left over ones as we were approaching DIF. It's still awaiting sponsorship, and in the meantime Debian have switched to webkit for this package.
<james_w> our only diff was for mozilla stuff (that debian should have taken eventually), and so this should be a sync
<james_w> however, that would need a promotion for webkit-sharp.
<cjwatson> james_w: you not being core-dev is confusing me; I'm sure I looked at that and thought "oh, he's core-dev now, he can do it himself)
<cjwatson> "
<james_w> not even close :-)
<james_w> is there a policy on MIRs for language bindings that anyone knows about?
<james_w> with both of the responsible people away I want to ask for any help first, as this should really be pre-FF
<cjwatson> I don't think there's a strict policy, though I would regard bindings for something that's already in main as fairly uncontroversial
<cjwatson> I might want to review it to check that it was just a thin wrapper, but might regard it as trivial
<asac> james_w: is mono-tools in main?
<james_w> I assumed so, as it was on the list that was divided up
<james_w> yeah, it is
<asac> monodoc-browser is
<cjwatson> mono-tools | 1.2.6-4ubuntu5 |      intrepid | source
<james_w> I'd rather not be dealing with it, but it looked like an easy merge at the time.
<james_w> directhex, who alerted me to this, said that the current merge would be better than nothing, but obviously syncing would be better
<asac> james_w: have you tested for regressions with webkit? liferea had regressions, so i wonder.
<james_w> asac: I have no idea how webkit is even used in the package
<james_w> This is all just based on comments by directhex in the bug
<james_w> (bug 243093)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 243093 in mono-tools "Please merge mono-tools 1.9-1 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/243093
<asac> james_w: well. monodoc-browser used gecko in the past to render the documentation pages
<asac> which probably would be replaced with webkit
<james_w> anyway, I'll either hang on for doko or pitti, or write the MIR
<kees> eww webkit...  only 22 CVEs in the last few years.  http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=webkit
<cjwatson> webkit's already in main
<cjwatson> webkit-sharp is the matter under discussion
<asac> anyone knows why we need monodoc in main? (which appears to pull in monodoc-browser)
 * cjwatson looks up the germinate-output bible
<cjwatson> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/ubuntu.intrepid/rdepends/ALL/monodoc
<cjwatson> so seeded and no other rdepends
<asac> yeah. if possible i'd like to demote that.
<slangasek> hrm, seeded? I thought it was a build-dep of something
<cjwatson> we included it as part of a general policy that all software in main should also have documentation (or relevant documentation tools) in main
<cjwatson> is there a particular reason why this shouldn't apply to mono?
<cjwatson> I mean documentation if any, of course
<asac> ok. and we need the default browser for that documentation?
<cjwatson> not necessarily, if there's another usable one then that would be fine
<cjwatson> I don't know mono well enough to speak to that
<calc> webkit is going to be used by gnome for the next release anyway (iirc?)
<slangasek> webkit is already in main and is not a point of contention
<cjwatson> if there's something else that works, feel free to unseed it with a suitable comment - I guess just making sure that monodoc-manual is still seeded would be a good idea
<cjwatson> ok, we're over time; anything else urgent?
<calc> oh ok
<cjwatson> I guess that's it, then; good luck for feature freeze and I hope to be more around next week once I'm back home!
<liw> thanks
<TheMuso> Thanks all.
<ArneGoetje> thanks
<james_w> thanks all
<slangasek> thanks :)
<evand> thanks
<asac> thx
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Ubuntu Mobile Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 21 Aug 14:00: Ubuntu Java Team | 22 Aug 12:00: Ubuntu MOTU | 23 Aug 13:00: Xubuntu Community | 26 Aug 15:00: Server Team
<lool> So hmm "Current meeting: Ubuntu Mobile Team"
<lool> #startmeeting
 * ogra looks around
 * persia sites quietly at the front, with notes in disarray
<lool> Looks like there's something broken with the meeting bot
 * ogra pokes MootBot 
<persia> Yep.  MootBot has been taking a long weekend the past several days.
<lool> Let's do without then
<ogra> is StevenK here ?
<lool> First, action items from last week; uhoh my name is repeated all over the place
<ogra> ... doesnt look like
<persia> We can still use MootBot commands to structure the meeting, which might make writing minutes easier later.
<lool> [topic] Action Items from August 14th, 2008
<lool> * lool the investigation of xulrunner, langpacks and linux-lpia bits [carry forward]
<persia> What's the URL to the agenda again?
<lool> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Meeting/20080821
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Meeting/20080821
<ogra> bah ... i'm beaten
<lool> So I started poking xulrunner for a couple of hours, but that's all
<lool> Concerning langpacks, I dropped a mail to Jeroen; I expect updates will happen before Alpha 5
<lool> linux-lpia: I still have no idea what I supposed to check, but it's in intrepid  :)
<lool> # lool to Debian to chase libwpeditor-plus + modest status
<lool> I reviewed the packaging of libwpeditor-plus and modest in depth in Debian; these look ready to be uploaded except for modest requiring hildon-fm
<lool> hildon-fm is still broken in intrepid, so I need to look into the gtk+2.0 filechooser patch
<emgent> hello
<lool> So this is still on my TODO list; I made good progress on the direct packages themselves; I only need to review copyright on them
<lool> # lool to purchase USB web camera
<lool> didn
<lool> I didn't
 * ogra has several 
<StevenK> Oops
<lool> # lool+davidm+... test new version of Ekiga (2.9)
<lool> we didn't
<lool> so I'll carry forward the last two actions; but please allow me to move modest/libwpeditor-plus and xulrunner/langpacks to my status report
<lool> [action] lool to purchase USB web camera (carried over)
<lool> [action] lool+davidm test Ekiga 2.9
<lool> We might test Ekiga this WE with davidm as we will meet face to face  :-P
<lool> Moving to current items
<lool> [topic] Current items
<lool> Not sure who proposed the sponsoring queue: please add your name to the items you propose
<lool> [topic] # Status of sponsoring queue? (3 hours accomplished)
<lool> davidm did
<lool> Not sure what he meant; I personally am fine with my main sponsoring queue assigned items
<lool> ogra: you have a bunch of items to sponsor
<lool> or you had :)
<ogra> i do ?
<lool> persia: you only have one
<lool> ogra: says daniel's last sponsoring overview
<ogra> thats general ubuntu stuff though
<persia> lool: No, I have lots and lots, but I very much doubt I'm capable of sponsoring the thing you imagine I'm supposed to sponsor.
<ogra> not really mobile ... but right
<lool> ogra: Not sure what the topic is there for though  :-/
<persia> Really doesn't belong in this meeting.
<lool> persia: Assigned to you?
<ogra> well, my sponsoring usually falls under edubuntu
<lool> Ok; I'm happy to move to next topic -- I have no idea what we have to discuss here anyway
<persia> lool: I'm not core-dev.  Nothing is assigned to me.  I am a UUS admin, so I've quite a few I need to get done.
<ogra> or powermanager/screensaver until tedg makes his MOTU
<lool> I agree it's not mobile specicif
<lool> persia: Hmm for some reason I thought you were core dev
<ogra> we should ask david about it
<lool> persia: The sponsoring overview shows http://launchpad.net/bugs/243948 FYI
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 243948 in apt "Documentation for apt-get "purge" is sort of hard to understand" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<persia> lool: It's a common misconception :)
<persia> Right, I can't upload apt :)
<lool> persia: You should sort that with dholbach IMO :)
<ogra> persia, about time for core-dev then
<ogra> i mean you should be ready for that ;)
<lool> [topic] status of intrepid tasks: merge of ppa, installer, images etc. (davidm)
<persia> ogra: I've done a couple patches for main this cycle, but none that were accepted.  I need a track record before I can pass the MC requirements for core-dev.
<lool> [topic] StevenK status: livecd-rootfs, merges?
<lool> StevenK: How is it going?  Got help from cjwatson on integrating your stuff?  pushed your livecd-rootfs patches?
<lool> StevenK: With us?
<StevenK> lool: Yes
<StevenK> lool: Not yet
<lool> StevenK: What's your status for other intrepid tasks in your pipe otherwise?
<StevenK> lool: Hmmm.
<StevenK> lool: Most of my merges are done/ignorable
<lool> Ok
<lool> Anything else you'd like to mention or I'm moving to persia?
<StevenK> Just checking todo list
<StevenK> Nope, basically trying to get images done
<lool> [topic] persia status: installer, merges, ...?
<lool> persia: So, how is it going there?
<persia> So, I stopped trying to make the installer look good, and started looking at making it work.
<persia> In the last d-i run I did, we had four issues that need to be sorted.
<persia> 1) the partition types for lpia are unknown to d-i
<persia> 2) We don't install a kernel
<ogra> uh, 1-> why is that ? arent they standard ext3 ?
<persia> 3) We have no useful tasks defined (currently choices are OpenSSH server and ubuntu-desktop)
<persia> 4) tasksel crashes anyway because there is no aptitude
<persia> 3 & 4 ought be fairly easy to fix.
<ogra> how do we go about 3 ?
<StevenK> The installer doesn't install a kernel?
<lool> persia: 1) the partition types?!?
<persia> 2 currently baffles me, but I haven't dug into it much.
 * ogra proposed having ubuntu-mobile depend on -desktop and just apply ubuntu-mobile-settings for now 
<persia> For 1, we just need to patch d-i to know that lpia likes msdos partitions, which is trivial.
<ogra> as additional pkg
<persia> ogra: You don't want to drop any packages?
<cgregan> bah...kernel...do we really need it?! :-)
<ogra> we might, but tha should be possible through the seeds
<lool> ogra: We're looking at ubuntu-mid ATM
<lool> AIUI
<ogra> (not sure anyone tested that, but i think cjwatson added such functionallity)
<persia> lool: Why?  The installer is expected to be meta-agnostic, although I'm only planning a ubiquity image for ubuntu-mid
<lool> persia: Well it's nice if it is, but for feature parity I mostly care that we get a MID image
<lool> not a subnotebook one
<persia> lool: There are basically three steps involved.
<persia> Step one is getting the installer to work on lpia (nearly done)
<persia> Step two is making sure our metas appear as install options for the installer
<persia> Step three is creating a ubiquity image for ubuntu-mid.
<persia> The flavour doesn't become important until step 3.
<lool> persia: On which points of the above list do you need help?
<persia> lool: Step 3 is the fussiest.  I'd really like to get the ubiquity interface to look nice with 480 vertical pixels (really 416), but had no success.  At this point, I no longer care about it looking nice, as long as it works.
<lool> Sorry, I meant the list of 4 issues you mentionned earlier
<persia> For steps 1 and 2 I likely need some help getting stuff integrated from the installer team, but that's not so bad.
<ogra> why 416?
<persia> Oh, for the broiken issues?  If someone else wants to look at why we don't get a kernel, that would be handy.  I at least understand what's happening in the other casesw.
<ogra> you can just run it fullscreen :9
<persia> ogra: 480 - 32 - 32
<lool> ogra: panels
<persia> That doesn't help, because it's about 520 pixels high.
<ogra> lool, right thats what i meant
<persia> Alternately, if nobody else looks at them, I expect I can sort the other three tomorrow, and look into the kernel.
<ogra> put it above the panels in real fullscreen
<ogra> users can click cancel
<persia> I know that StevenK's image builder does handle the kernel issue, so it's just a d-i thing.
<lool> persia: Is there a way to try this out?  even borken
<persia> lool: Sure.  Download the daily lpia alternate CD and install in KVM.
<persia> If my expectations for tomorrow are correct, Monday's image ought to install, although I'm not sure if we'll have a kernel or not.
<lool> persia: When are you moving to live image / ubiquity testing of your bits?
<ogra> persia, why do you run a desktop at all ? i would just use a .xsession that runs ubuquity standalone
<ogra> *ubiquity
<persia> ogra: Because it's a live session.
<lool> ogra: Fortunately you didn't write ubugquity
<ogra> heh
<lool> ogra: Same reasons as Ubuntu live CD?
<ogra> persia, whats the problem defining a different desktop session ? we have the ubiquitiy-only or only-ubiquity bootparam already
<persia> lool: StevenK finished what look to be the last bits that I had issues with for livecd-rootfs today.  I'll probably be looking at a noninteractive tomorrow afternoon.
<ogra> (not sure how its called atm)
<lool> persia: Cool
<ogra> lool, right but we had a session that adressed this
<persia> ogra: It's different and requires more thought?  Anyway, I'd rather mirror the existing setup as much as possible.
<ogra> i'D propose to use that
<persia> Anyway, on to merges:
<lool> persia: Could you mail the list when you have something demonstrating it (even with some brokeness)
<ogra> persia, that is in the existing setup of the liveCD
<persia> I've grabbed another copy of the PPA locally, and started to review what is and what isn't in intrepid.
<persia> We're looking pretty good, and unless something goes disastrously wrong with my expectations for installer work, I should be able to push the majority of the interesting ones by Wednesday.
<persia> I'll scream if I get behind, and publish a list of things needing doing.
<ogra> persia, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/148341
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 148341 in ubiquity "run ubiquity without starting full desktop" [Undecided,Fix released]
<ogra> its just a casper option ... and will save you a lot of grief with screensize
<persia> ogra: Do you really want it done that way?  I like the idea of a "install" button, but can do it that way.
<ogra> well, it makes the screen you can use bigger
<ogra> i like that too, but not for 800x480
<ogra> 50px extra height is a lot there
<persia> ogra: Hmm.  I'm still not sure it would fit in 480 pixels, but I'll give it a shot.
<lool> I personally don't mind if we support either or both; as long as it's not a deep infrastructural change
<ogra> decide yourself ... i just think it makes your job easier for now
 * ogra would swich that on dynamically depending on available screensize 
<lool> I agree that ogra that it might be a time saver if we can save ourselves from tweaking 20 ubiquity screens by gaining some pixels; but I don't know how much work we really have on the table either way
<persia> ogra: Perhaps.  Last I looked it was over 480.
<lool> Ok; persia anything else on your intrepid tasks you'd like to discuss?
<persia> Anyway, I'll check that out, and let people know.
<lool> persia: thanks
<ogra> persia, your tsk, your decision :)
<ogra> *task
<lool> I guess I can move one?
<persia> Not really.  I still haven't pushed the bluez-gnome update I want, or finished the migration of ume-config-* to something more flexible, but neither is really blocking.
<lool> (geez sorry for the typos)
<ogra> lool, welcome to hte culb
<ogra> :P
<lool> persia: Is the bluez update MID related?
<lool> ogra: hte culb :)
<persia> lool: Don't we install bluez-gnome for the bluetooth icon on ubuntu-mid?  I thought it was the same stack, but if it's not, I can miss for intrepid, as Debian will be updating post-Lenny.
<lool> persia: I don't understand the connection between the bluez-gnome upadte and MID work
<lool> (I'm happy if we get the latest bluez-gnome, I'm just trying to understand whether you're fighting e.g. an issue on MIDs)
<ogra> dont we use the bluez applet in MID ?
<persia> lool: It's an app that we install that I want to update in the hopes that it won't crash so much, because in hardy it crashes on connect, which takes down hildon-desktop, which takes down X.
<lool> Ok; just a regular update, nothing ubuntu-mobile/ubuntu-mid/hildon/moblin specific
<lool> Thanks for the clarification
<persia> I've not confirmed that it fixes it, but it's the only part of the updated BlueZ stable suite that we don't currently match, and upstream is now focusing on 4.0, so it's just bugfixes.
<lool> I wasn't sure whether I was missing some piece of MID specific work we had been putting in bluez
<lool> Ok; may I move on?
<persia> I'm fairly sure most of that went upstream, but there's a bit of stuff from netbook-remix that I'm also trying to integrate.
<lool> Ok, moving on
<persia> Yeah, please move on :)
<lool> [topic] lool status: MIC merges, etc.?
<lool> So I've had reply from moblin people faster than expected on the MIC patch stack; I've been reviewing merges in depth, and checked that we get exactly as much functionality in the merged patches as we have in our tree
<lool> It also spinned many side discussions on misc issues I have with MIC in general; details no dev@moblin.org but it's around fsets, platforms and the like
<lool> So work is ongoing there and progressing at a good pace
<lool> Doesn't really impact intrepid though
<lool> Other things I've been worked on were shortly mentionned here; I also poked some desktop-ish bits which don't belong here (pangomm, elisa -- still in progress)
<lool> That's about it for *intrepid* related work
<lool> I'm happy to answer any question on these topics if you have any; I don't have particular blockers on these tasks
<lool> About to move to ogra's status...
<lool> [topic] ogra status
<ogra> classmate -> image is ready with colins changs to the build tool .... new bug showed up ... https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/258110
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 258110 in cmpc "Camera application cannot record video" [Critical,New]
<lool> ogra: No particular topics connected with your status update
<ogra> which was apparently set to critical tonight :(
<lool> But I wanted to ask about health and cmpc :)
<lool> ogra: I came across this and wondered whether it was truly a functional requirement for the cmpc release
<ogra> health is ok ... nothing was found, i'm taking blood thinners and moved from 40-60 cigarettes to 5/day in spirit of dholbach :)
<lool> Sure recording video "would be nice", not sure why it's suddently RC
<lool> haha 5-a-day for cigarettes
<ogra> no idea, and intel was made aware by me that cheese might no be ready when they asked for cheese inclusion
<lool> "Fix 5 bugs before allowing you to a smoke" might also work
<ogra> for the mobile team i still dont have a fixed role defined
<ogra> so my assumption is that i care for the -mobile seed and general hw/platform enablement
<ogra> for that i worked on a gnome-mid setup http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/cellwriter.png and currently poke around with upstream hal on touchscreen enablement in hal-input
<lool> ogra: Well we don't have very strict roles either; we mostly reports on current tasks and the tasks were discussed at UDS; I'm happy if you take good care of the mobile seed though
<lool> Perhaps we should
<lool> 10 minutes warning
<ogra> well, i'm still waiting on my official team move ...
<lool> ah
<ogra> i expect to have some clearification with that
<ogra> david said they would discuss it this week on london
<lool> Ok
<lool> Anything else you'd like to discuss on intrepid tasks?
<lool> Otherwise I'll move to the last topic
<ogra> no, i'm fine
<lool> [topic] Switch claws with modest/libwpeditor libwpeditor-plus?
<lool> Who proposed the topic?  davidm?
<ogra> why are we stuck with sylpheed ?
<ogra> TB seems to work just fine
<lool> TB?
<ogra> without having to hack it up
<ogra> thunderbird
<ogra> i use it in the cmpc image on request
<lool> Hmm I'm not sure we ever considered thunderbird
<ogra> neither of them has e-d-s integration so imho they are equivalent
<lool> thunderbird is fine by me at all rates; we have xulrunner software in the platform anyway
<persia> We've already got xul loaded, so thunderbird probably isn't even that resource intensive.
<ogra> but TB doesnt need patching
<lool> claws is okay; it's solid and rich but a bit complex for the screen estate
<StevenK> TB might be too big
<persia> What about tinymail.  StevenK, weren't you working on that?
<lool> The biggest issue with claws are the bdeps
<StevenK> tinymail is just a library
<lool> Concerning modest, it's hard to judge without uptodate packages
<StevenK> Which modest uses
<ogra> StevenK, big in what context ? screen or appsize ?
<StevenK> ogra: Former
<lool> persia: tinymail is the lib counterpart of modest
<ogra> StevenK, it works on the classmate at 800x480
<lool> I've used thunderbird for a long time at previous job and was satisfied with it in the previous versions
<lool> It's simple and clear
<lool> Modest might be more lightweight; it's well integrated with hildon libs AFAICT, but we're missing some and are moving away of hildon
<persia> What?  We're moving away from hildon again?  I thought we decided last week that we were keeping hildon.
 * persia is very confused
<ogra> i'm all for tinymail, but i dont see it ready yet or in the near future
<lool> persia: I mean on the long term
<lool> Was about to add "on the long term"
<ogra> e-d-s integration is a good thing
 * persia only cares about intrepid right now
<lool> persia: I care about intrepid too :)
<lool> So if TB works decently and we can keep it when moving away from hildon it's a plus
<ogra> we should test it more ... but i didnt find any issues on the cmpc
<lool> ogra: I think tinymail and modest landed some good versions now
<ogra> (apart from requiring extra langpacks)
<lool> ogra: It's not purely development mode anymore
<lool> ogra: I'll test it on diablo and report
<ogra> ah
<lool> Hmm we're over time
<ogra> good, we actually filled the meeting with content :)
<lool> I'm afraid we'll have to defer to next week to pursue the discussion?
<persia> Desktop meeting is cancelled this week, so time is not as critical a factor.
<lool> I'd like to take a decision, but lack of uptodate modest and lack of davidm makes it harder
<lool> persia: Ah indeed
<ogra> we can surely take the decision next week with david available
<lool> So to sum up: ogra=pro TB, uses on cmpc
<lool> persia=ok with TB, we have xul already
<persia> My worry with deferring a week is that next meeting *is* feature freeze.
<lool> StevenK=TB might be too big in screen estate
<ogra> persia, freeze isnt set in stone
<persia> ogra: can you post a screenshot of TB at 800x480?
<lool> lool=TB might be a good option for intrepid and intrepid+1, modest needs a refresh to be evaluated decently
<ogra> persia, TB is in main, its just a trivial seed change
<lool> Anyone in *favor* of keeping claws?
<persia> lool: So modest just isn't going to make it for intrepid?
<lool> persia: It could
<lool> I'll try hard to push it this week
<lool> So nobody in favor of claws?
<StevenK> claws is unsuitable for main
<lool> I personally don't find it well suited for MIDs, but it was a decent Gtk+ client
<lool> Ok; shall we defer final decision to next week?
<ogra> sabdfl uses TB :) thats a sight guarantee it will stay in main and suported
<ogra> ;)
<lool> heh
<persia> I was a claws user for years, and recently stopped due to bugginess of various sorts.  It simply crashes too often, which is especially painful under hildon-desktop
<lool> So the open choice is clearly replace claws with modest or TB; many people with TB positive experience, not enough data for modest yet
<lool> Let's check next week
<ogra> yeah
<lool> About to close the meeting then; unless anyone would like to add a last minute topic
<lool> #endmeeting
<ogra> yay
<lool> Meeting closed, thanks everybody
<ogra> thanks
<persia> thanks for hosting lool
 * ogra goes lunching
<lool> .wub 1
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 25 Aug 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 26 Aug 15:00: Server Team | 27 Aug 17:00: QA Team | 27 Aug 22:00: Platform Team | 21 Aug 13:00: Desktop Team | 21 Aug 14:00: Ubuntu Java Team
<persia> Who's here for the Java meeting?
<dalibor> here
<dalibor> hi Koon
<Koon> hey guys
 * dalibor quickly reboots his intrepid laptop
<persia> #startmeeting
<persia> [TOPIC] Roadmap review
<persia> dalibor: How is progress on identifying tasks for the server stack?
<dalibor> i've gone ahead and tried to build glassfish from source, to get a grasp on it
<dalibor> checked out from latest svn, on intrepid, using mavn2 from intrepid
<dalibor> the regula rmaven build works (i haven't tried out koon's ppa package yet)
<dalibor> and it doewloads quite a bunch of jars overall
<persia> Right, the trick being that the buildds don't have internet access.
<dalibor> most of those are either glassfish/sun specific, so should not be a mavvise problem
<dalibor> another large chunk are maven bits and pieces (plugins, plexus,etc.)
<dalibor> and then there is the rest of ~ 100 jars, that boild down to a lot fewer dependecies, actually,
<dalibor> since most of them are, as I feared, present in multiple versions
<dalibor> running the mvn dependency analysis tools works, which is neat
<dalibor> and tells you what part of the build requires which dependecies
<dalibor> so from the tooling perspecitve, i thnk the 'let's see how it works for a build, then try to figure out where the dependecies are coming from, and which we need to package' should work fine.
<dalibor> it's the figuring our which we need to package that may be a bit tricky
<dalibor> since it may be necessary to figure out whether some jars need to be present in multiple versions
<dalibor> and if my X was working I'd actually be ableto give you an overview of what's required in there Ã
<persia> OK.  So things are starting to get in shape, but still nothing ready to pass out as tasks?
<dalibor> so, coming back to it all, the next step would be to do the same for other things we are interested in, and figure out a way to automate the matching step
<dalibor> i#ve played a bit with trying to script that, and getting apt-cache to do my bidding,
<dalibor> but nothing really useful yet
<dalibor> except that I can tell that a good deal of the dependencies has actually been packaged already
<dalibor> but may or may not be in the version necessary for the build.
<persia> That's good news.  If we could even get a list of needs-packaging bugs, we could start targetting it.
<dalibor> once I have that automated, the tasks will fall out of that pretty straightforward, i think.
<persia> Then getting them updated or getting the software to build with them becomes an achievable goal.
<dalibor> yep
<persia> Next is slytherin: are you here?
<dalibor> deends on the offline supoprt for maven, fof course, but I'm moving n assuming koon & team will find a good way to handle it.
<persia> dalibor: That makes sense.  I think as things get broken out, sharing the workload is best.  Once you finish the breakdown, we'll look to you for something else, of course :)
<persia> OK.  No word from slytherin, so we'll skip optimisation and universe transition this week,
<persia> Koon: Any word on maven?  I remember seeing some discussion about 10 days ago in #ubuntu-java.
<Koon> I was on vacation last week so I have no update on this. kaaloo proposed a different implementation
<Koon> based on a proxy
<persia> kaaloo: Are you about?  How is that going?
<dalibor> nope, he's not there
<Koon> he added the design to the Spec page
<persia> OK.  Anything else to report about maven this week?
<Koon> not from my side. kaaloo proposal was the only feedback to my mvn-jpp testing proposal so far
<persia> OK.
<Koon> I might have more time after feature freeze
<Koon> but not atm :)
<persia> As a general note, Feature Freeze is next week, so I think most of this is going to be intrepid+1 stuff.
<persia> Next up
<persia> [TOPIC] Developer week
<persia> So, Developer week is coming up.
<persia> We've had a couple requests for someone to lead sessions on Java stuff.
<persia> Anyone want to volunteer to lead a session?
<dalibor> url ?
<persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Prep is the schedule-as-work-in-progress
<dalibor> thanks, persia
<dalibor> unfortunately, next week is bad for me
<persia> Anyone else?
<persia> (and it's the week past next)
<Koon> I don't feel comfortable talking about Ubuntu Java support yet.
<Koon> wait at least for my Universe Contributors Application :)
<persia> Right.  Maybe someone can convince one of those with more experience (doko, man-di) to give a session.
<persia> [TOPIC] Other Business
<persia> Anyone have any last minute additions to the agenda?
<persia> RIght.  See you next week then.
<persia> #endmeeting
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Ubuntu Java Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Aug 12:00: Ubuntu MOTU | 23 Aug 13:00: Xubuntu Community | 26 Aug 15:00: Server Team | 27 Aug 17:00: QA Team
<Koon> thanks persia
<persia> Koon: No, thank you.  I just lead meetings, but you're one of the task leaders making the team happen.
<Koon> persia: which makes me think... I should submit an universe contributor application soon, would you consider adding a short endorsement to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThierryCarrez ?
<Koon> then I'll let you know when I send the application mail to the ML.
<cody-somerville> Koon, I think Persia will know
<cody-somerville> Koon, Since he is on the MOTU Council
<Koon> cody-somerville: sure ;)
<cody-somerville> ;]
<persia> Koon: Feel free to cc me as someone who would endorse your UUC application.
<Koon> persia: ok, thx
<slytherin> is the java meeting over?
<Koon> slytherin: yes
<slytherin> Koon: damn, network problems in office. :-(
<persia> slytherin: If you want to give a quick precis on your roadmap items in #ubuntu-java, most of us are still there.
<slytherin> persia: I didn't find any time all this week to work on java packages. The only good thing that happened is the sync request I had logged are done. So jaranalyzer is in. I have to now file sync and move to universe bugs for some more libraries.
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 25 Aug 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 22 Aug 12:00: Ubuntu MOTU | 23 Aug 13:00: Xubuntu Community | 26 Aug 15:00: Server Team | 27 Aug 17:00: QA Team | 27 Aug 22:00: Platform Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-08-22
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Ubuntu MOTU Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 23 Aug 13:00: Xubuntu Community | 26 Aug 15:00: Server Team | 27 Aug 17:00: QA Team | 27 Aug 22:00: Platform Team
<james_w> is there an agenda for today?
<geser> isn't the more important question, who is here for the MOTU meeting?
 * Hobbsee notes the apparent lack of interest in it
 * persia is about 20% here
 * huats is here, but he is not a MOTU
 * Hobbsee suggests cancelling the meeting, if there isn't sufficient liveliness?
<james_w> it looks like that may be the best option
 * sistpoty|work just returned to keyboard
<sistpoty|work> since there is no meeting right now, when is the next one? and who'll be sending out reminders?
<geser> sistpoty|work: the next one should be in two weeks and 8 hours
<sistpoty|work> geser: so 5th sep, 20:00 utc?
<james_w> that's in developer week if it matters
<sistpoty|work> that's during my vacation (woohoo), which however doesn't matter :)
<zul> nifty thats when my birthday is
<geser> sistpoty|work: time and date looks correct
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 25 Aug 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 26 Aug 15:00: Server Team | 27 Aug 17:00: QA Team | 27 Aug 22:00: Platform Team | 28 Aug 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 28 Aug 13:00: Desktop Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-08-23
<NCommander> morning cody-somerville
<cody-somerville> Morning
<cody-somerville> @schedule
<ubottu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 25 Aug 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 26 Aug 15:00: Server Team | 27 Aug 17:00: QA Team | 27 Aug 22:00: Platform Team | 28 Aug 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 28 Aug 13:00: Desktop Team
<cody-somerville> Waz happen to Xubuntu meeting? :-(
<NCommander> No love
<NCommander> Argh
<NCommander> Package 'dbus-1', required by 'xfconf', not found
<NCommander> Finally
<cody-somerville> :-]
 * NCommander uploads beta7
<NCommander> :-/
<cody-somerville> I dunno how long I can stay for the meeting so lets get started as soon as possible :-]
<NCommander> Well
<NCommander> Give it another minute
<NCommander> Then we'll start
<NCommander> Is it worth having a meeting with what, two people?
<NCommander> cody-somerville, I'll chair if you feel the meeting is worth it
<NCommander> that's three
<mr_pouit> hi there
 * Myrtti gets her glasses and microwaves some coffee
<NCommander> sweet
<NCommander> that's enough for me
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<cody-somerville> :]
<NCommander> MootBot seems broken
<cody-somerville> #startmeeting
 * cody-somerville nods.
<cody-somerville> So, lets go over the follow up items
 * NCommander makes sure mr_pouit and Myrtti are still with us
<Myrtti> not that I can contribute much, but yes
<NCommander> One of us should log the chat
<NCommander> Since the bot is broken
<NCommander> I guess we should start with recent events
<Myrtti> I'm logging
<Myrtti> hold on, checking
<Myrtti> yes, it's logging
<NCommander> We have a new Xubuntu-developer who shall remain nameless for his own safety
<NCommander> ;-)
<NCommander> Anyway, the first note here on the list is the Team Updates section (Packaging/etc.)
<NCommander> xfce4.6-beta is mostly packaged, but beyond that, I got nothing
 * Myrtti gets her laptop to burn ibex alt xubuntu installation disc to install on the laptop
<cody-somerville> I've been working with upstream
<NCommander> Ah, so I have you to thank for all the patches going upstream
<NCommander> (I was able to remove almost 10-20 patches across the board since they rolled upstream)
<NCommander> qdj
<NCommander> *ack, netsplit
<cody-somerville> I think this 4.6 alpha is the result of my prodding
<cody-somerville> \o/
<NCommander> We lost of mr_prouit
<NCommander> And now they are back
<cody-somerville> \o/
<NCommander> mr_pouit, wb from the otherside of the split ;-)
<NCommander> https://edge.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive - current packaged xfce 4.6 beta is in the xubuntu-dev PPA
<cody-somerville> In the artwork department, jmakz has an updated gdm theme that has yet to be updated
<NCommander> Everything is packaged and works (ignore the xfprint failure, I just fixed that),
<cody-somerville> Also, the xubuntu meta package needs uploading from and our branch needs merging with core-devs
<NCommander> Come again?
<cody-somerville> NCommander, xubuntu-meta needs uploading
<NCommander> That's the meta packages that allows for easy updating if memory serves, right?
<cody-somerville> Its xubuntu-desktop binary package
<NCommander> Oh
<NCommander> I'm not too familar with that part of the packaging, I'm still new here
<NCommander> what's the hold up on that?
<cody-somerville> I just need to get it done
<NCommander> If you shove the sources somewhere, I can roll one for xfce4.6
<NCommander> (its on my todo list once the last modules roll)
<cody-somerville> It needs to be uploaded to the release achive :-]
<cody-somerville> *archive
<cody-somerville> and it is a script
<NCommander> We need to work out the xfce 4.4 rdpepends when we roll 4.6
<NCommander> A lot of the internal libraries got shuffled around
<NCommander> So that's going to be nasty
<cody-somerville> Okay.
<NCommander> *-mcs is history, we have THREE new packages (xfconf, menu, and xfsettings)
<cody-somerville> Okay.
<NCommander> Once everything is confirmed and packaged, I'm going to drop xubuntu-devel/xubuntu-tester emails inviting them to beta test 4.6 beta
<cody-somerville> Splendid.
<NCommander> The only outstanding issue is a few man pages need to be authored
<NCommander> I'll offer mentoring on the task, but I have no real interest in writing them
 * cody-somerville nods.
<Myrtti> hmmm
<cody-somerville> Good idea
<Myrtti> O
<NCommander> That's all I got for team updates
<Myrtti> I'm a fairly newb, would this be something that I could do as a starters?
<NCommander> Myrtti, if you are good at writing, it should be fairly straight forward
<Myrtti> documenting and such is one of my few fortes
<NCommander> Wait until Xfce 4.6 rolls though
<NCommander> make sure your an xubuntu-tester on LP
<Myrtti> I know about nothing but I might want to give it a try if there is someone to mentor me through the process
<Myrtti> I'll enroll right away
<NCommander> Catch me after the meeting
<NCommander> Ok, so thats the basis of Team Updates
<NCommander> Now we have two outstandings from the last meeting
 * cody-somerville nods.
<NCommander> goffice without the -gtk variant
<NCommander> I know nothing on this, any ideas?
<cody-somerville> Thats done
 * NCommander scratchs it
<NCommander> How about possibly removing xfve4-session
<cody-somerville> I don't think we should do that anymore
<NCommander> (I should note I already updated and merged patches for 4.6 ;-))
<cody-somerville> but we should consider making session saving disabled by default
<NCommander> What was the motivation behind that
<NCommander> That I will agree to
<cody-somerville> The motivation is that upstream plans to deprecate it anyhow in the future because of problems with it
<NCommander> It means we'll need a new logout panel
<NCommander> Since xfce-session supplies that
<cody-somerville> Right
<NCommander> We'll put it to a vote on the list (although I guess we need an Xubuntu/Voting/Policy ;-)) over it
<NCommander> Ok, goals for Xubuntu 8.10
<NCommander> Standard disclaimer: Freeze date is in a week
<cody-somerville> I have a patch to make starting Xfce4 faster
<cody-somerville> I'm going to play with it today or tomorrow
<NCommander> Can we get it rolled upstream, or should we shove it in our packaging?
<cody-somerville> It'll probably make it for 4.6
<cody-somerville> but 4.4 is frozen
<cody-somerville> so we'll shove it in our packaging
<NCommander> Do you want me to roll it and drop it in -testers for beta testing, or shall you?
<NCommander> Are we going to roll 4.6 for 8.10?
<NCommander> (it doesn't look like a final will be available in time though)
 * cody-somerville nods.
<cody-somerville> I have to run for breakfast
<NCommander> I guess concludes that
<NCommander> We can compare notes when you return
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-08-17
<Guest8193> hi, i am new in ubuntu and need help!
<Guest8193> is there somebody who will help me?
<joaopinto> Guest8193, the help channgel is #ubuntu
<Guest8193> ok thanks
<Guest8193> so here i won't find a help? :-(
<Hobbsee> Guest8193: no.  This is not a support channel, as you may have noticed.
<Guest8193> i know, but i'm lost
<Guest8193> could u at lest lead me to support channel, how do i get there
<Guest8193> cose i'm a bit stupid in it
<czajkowski> Guest8193: do /j #ubuntu
<czajkowski> and you should end up in there,
 * Hobbsee has no idea how people manage to get here, then say they can't get there, when that's the preset channel
<Guest8193> where i find it?
<Hobbsee> type "/join #ubuntu"
<Hobbsee> without the quotes
<czajkowski> Hobbsee: aye folks end up in here sometimes
<Guest8193> where should i type it? ( I know i am retard)
<Hobbsee> czajkowski: i'm aware.  i've never figured out why, though
<czajkowski> Guest8193: how have you accessed here, via a terminal,or a web ?
<Guest8193> web
<czajkowski> ok, perhaps at the side there is a channel list of a place you can type channel name type #ubuntu
<czajkowski> unde rthe chanel list or tell me the page you are on so I can describe it better for you
<lukjad007> Morning all
<freeflyi2g> @shedule shanghai
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-08-18
<cprofitt> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 19:00. The chair is cprofitt.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<cprofitt> welcome to the Ubuntu Community Learning Project Meeting
<pleia2> thanks cprofitt :)
<pleia2> let me fix up the Agenda real quick
<cprofitt> k
<pleia2> there we go :)
<sagaci> [TOPIC]
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] Publicty by pleia2
<MootBot> New Topic:  Publicty by pleia2
<pleia2> so far doctormo and I have blogged about it, which was picked up in UWN \o/
<pleia2> have had a lot of traffic in the channel the past few days :)
<cprofitt> that is good... what are we looking for with publicity right now
<pleia2> so I want to make sure we're all prepared to handle this, but I want to keep the momentum going
<pleia2> blogging and sharing stuff with loco teams will work the best, I think
<cprofitt> yes...
<pleia2> any other thoughts?
<cprofitt> How are we coming on course development?
<pleia2> that's the next topic :)
<pleia2> we have two started
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] Course Development
<MootBot> New Topic:  Course Development
<pleia2> so doctormo has been working on his sysadmin stuff
<sagaci> which two
<cprofitt> Cool. Do you still need help?
<pleia2> they are all linked here; https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/SystemAdminTopics
<cprofitt> sagaci, we actually have some sample courses on the site already too
<bodhi_zazen> sorry I am late
<pleia2> cprofitt: we need tons of help :)
<pleia2> more writers, more reviewers are always helpful, more experts
<cprofitt> I agree...
<pleia2> but doctormo's start on the sysadmin stuff is realy great
<bodhi_zazen> I think a how to moodle would be good =)
<cprofitt> Do we need to take doctormo's stuff and convert to Moodle
<pleia2> nothing is in moodle yet, so that nede to be taken care of
<cprofitt> bodhi_zazen, have you looked at the how-to I uploaded?
<pleia2> cprofitt: yeah
<bodhi_zazen> no, but I shall
<pleia2> the current plan is to use bzr for course development (doctormo posted info on the list on friday)
<pleia2> and then use moodle for course deployment
<cprofitt> that was one of the first courses I uploaded
<pleia2> [LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-learning/2009-August/000017.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-learning/2009-August/000017.html
<cprofitt> will the bzr have moodle course files or some other format?
<bodhi_zazen> bzr can be hard for people to use =)
<pleia2> for now, other format
<pleia2> bodhi_zazen: there are some good how-tos on the ubuntu wiki
<bodhi_zazen> yea, I have helped a few people with those
<pleia2> it's pretty straight forward after a few minutes of trying to figure it out, and you can always view the stuff via the web interface
<pleia2> it's just committers of material who will need to know how to use it really
<pleia2> so doctormo is on sysadmin stuff, I've been tasked with beginning the Desktop stuff - which doctormo gave me an outline for
<pleia2> planning on having this first section done aug 31st
<cprofitt> nice...
<cprofitt> I think those are some big first steps...
<cprofitt> are you guys leveraging any external materials?
<pleia2> yeah, if you look at the sysadmin page you can see some links already exist: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/SystemAdminTopics
<pleia2> fleshing that out more would be *great*
<pleia2> and I think that's where we should put our focus
<cprofitt> so the sysadmin topics...
<pleia2> so when the course writer comes along they just need to reference those materials already linked to write the course
<cprofitt> are each of the bullet points a course?
<pleia2> loosely
<pleia2> it is a work in progress
<cprofitt> I envision the courses being able to link back out to these materials too...
<pleia2> once you get rolling with development you might find out there isn't enough material for each course, or too much
<bodhi_zazen> I like that outline
<cprofitt> no need to 'cut-n-paste' content
<cprofitt> make 'reading' assignments
<bodhi_zazen> I should throw up a similar outline. lol
<pleia2> yeah
<cprofitt> then IRC, Screen, or other activities for people to apply the reading
<pleia2> bodhi_zazen: maybe you can continue to develop this one?
<bodhi_zazen> Yea, I can add to some of those topics
<bodhi_zazen> I am working on an intro to Ubuntu
<pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/UbuntuDesktopTopics is the one I'm working on now
<bodhi_zazen> how to get an iso, etc
<pleia2> bodhi_zazen: ok, we'll have to collaborate then :) doctormo gave me that task too
<bodhi_zazen> the differences between desktop and alternate
<pleia2> I'll get you the log of what we outlined for the first desktop course
<bodhi_zazen> I am planning to pull in pages from the wiki
<bodhi_zazen> LTS versions, how to partition, etc
<pleia2> I'm putting my desktop work up on bzr and will be editing that wiki page, so we don't duplicate work
<bodhi_zazen> basic stuff we all take for granted yet many windows uses have no clue
<pleia2> yeah, sounds like we're on the same track ;)
<cprofitt> it does... very sorry I am not able to write courses right now
<cprofitt> I feel like a laggard
<bodhi_zazen> pleia2: should I wait for your wiki page
<pleia2> bodhi_zazen: can you flesh out the UbuntuDesktopTopics page with links and further outline ideas you have?
<pleia2> no need to wait, I'm using: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/UbuntuDesktopTopics
<pleia2> so as long as we both update it with our progress and touch base in IRC, we should be good
<cprofitt> Nice outline plars
<cprofitt> pleia2,
<cprofitt> gah
<cprofitt> sorry for the ping plars
<bodhi_zazen> yea, I will add
<cprofitt> I will try to add some things too...
<cprofitt> I am slowly gaining enough wisdom that I might be able to pass it along
<cprofitt> Where are we going to put topics like VirtualBox, UFW, etc
<bodhi_zazen> UFW => sys admin
<bodhi_zazen> unless we want a security section
<cprofitt> I noticed it was not in sys admin...
<cprofitt> so was curious
<bodhi_zazen> VBox , well we would need a virtualization section, IMO
<bodhi_zazen> Virtualization becomes very complex fast
<cprofitt> so we would need a section beyond those currently on the page?
<bodhi_zazen> NAT, bridged, sharing files, etc
<cprofitt> or would it fit in 'use'
<pleia2> bodhi_zazen: I just updated the wiki, but this is the log from when doctormo outlined the intro class he teaches: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/08/14/%23ubuntu-learning.html
<pleia2> also discusses how he goes about course development
<cprofitt> pleia2, I have to say you guys are doing a very good job
<pleia2> cprofitt: thanks :) it's really all doctormo so far
<cprofitt> well... doctormo deserves a huge thank you
<cprofitt> [AGREED] doctormo deserves a big thank you
<MootBot> AGREED received:  doctormo deserves a big thank you
<pleia2> absolutely :)
<pleia2> hehe
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<cprofitt> any other topics for you bodhi_zazen ?
<bodhi_zazen> That is a long page
<bodhi_zazen> No, was thinking we should clean up the team structure page ;)
<pleia2> so I think what we want to do is encourage people to add links to the topic pages if they want to pitch in resources-wise, easy way to help out
<bodhi_zazen> I can probably look at that
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] Team Structure page cleanup
<pleia2> cool
<MootBot> New Topic:  Team Structure page cleanup
<cprofitt> I agree bodhi_zazen I think we need to clean it up and make it be the structure not the discussion
<cprofitt> do you have time to take that on?
<bodhi_zazen> yes
<cprofitt> I would appreciate that ... and I am sure everyone else will as well
<pleia2> yeah, thanks bodhi_zazen :)
<cprofitt> my crunch time at work is now through end of October
<cprofitt> so my spare time is < 0
<bodhi_zazen> I think it is a matter of merging my initial comments, with doctormo
<bodhi_zazen> and I it is not clear what is up I will ask =)
 * cprofitt nods
<pleia2> sounds good!
<cprofitt> [AGREED] bodhi_zazen to clean up structure page
<MootBot> AGREED received:  bodhi_zazen to clean up structure page
<cprofitt> any other topics?
<pleia2> I'm done
<cprofitt> bodhi_zazen, ?
<bodhi_zazen> not I
<cprofitt> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 19:26.
<cprofitt> thanks for coming to the meeting everyone... we can retire to our regular bat cave for informal discussions
<pleia2> thanks everyone!
<popey> cc meeting?
<popey> fridge calendar says yes, lack of people here says no
<james_w> popey: 45 minutes
<james_w> seems the timezone of the event in the fridge calendar is wrong
<popey> ta
<dholbach> Unfortunately the CC meeting is not going to happen because we can't get quorum, seems like nobody updated the Fridge. Sorry.
 * ogra waits patiently
 * StevenK shores patiently
 * bjf waves
<plars> meeting happening?
<bjf> better happen soon or i'm back to bed
<ogra> NCommander missing ...
<plars> he will be joining shortly
<ogra> twiddle twiddle ...
 * GrueMaster is here.
<paulliu> orz
<dyfet> here also
<NCommander> Ugh, morning
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 08:13. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * NCommander pokes StevenK ogra lool GrueMaster plars 
<plars> we're here
<paulliu> hi
 * GrueMaster pokes back.
<NCommander> ok
<bjf> NCommander, poke youself, lets go
<NCommander> [topic] Action Item Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action Item Review
 * StevenK shores
<ogra> no agenda link ?
<NCommander> ogra, I forgot to create a new page
<ogra> hmm, k
 * NCommander is not on his A game this week
<ogra> so move on
 * GrueMaster mumbles "this week?"
<bjf> just bag the meeting
<NCommander> [topic] NCommander to investigate https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vnc4/+bug/338148 (co)
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to investigate https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vnc4/+bug/338148 (co)
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 338148 in vnc4 "Needs new version from Debian: fails to build with removal of mesa-swx11-source" [High,Triaged]
<NCommander> c/o
<NCommander> [topic] GrueMaster to retest on i386 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/337809
<MootBot> New Topic:  GrueMaster to retest on i386 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/337809
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 337809 in linux "APIC error on CPU 0" [Medium,Triaged]
<GrueMaster> co
<ogra> does that even still occur ?
<GrueMaster> Hardware to reproduce is not currently set up.
<NCommander> [topic] Specification status
<MootBot> New Topic:  Specification status
<NCommander> [topic] ogra's status
<MootBot> New Topic:  ogra's status
<ogra> ??
<ogra> http://people.canonical.com/~lool/mobile-status.html is supposed to be our blueprint status overview of the future, it relies on everyone having the status field in the blueprints up to date ahead of the meeting ... seems lool didnt set up a cronjob to update the page though so we might need to go through that
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~lool/mobile-status.html is supposed to be our blueprint status overview of the future, it relies on everyone having the status field in the blueprints up to date ahead of the meeting ... seems lool didnt set up a cronjob to update the page though so we might need to go through that
<ogra> manually
<ogra> i though lool showed that to you at the sprint
<NCommander> ogra, right, but I thought we were still going to go over status individually regardless
<NCommander> ogra, we did that last week
<ogra> yes, last week was supposed to e the last time, but fine
<GrueMaster> Looks like it is updating fine.
<plars> I think the idea was just to see if there was anything currently blocking anyone
 * ogra wonders why he took the effort to updae the statuses 
<plars> otherwise, read the status page
<NCommander> Ok ...
<ogra> GrueMaster, it doesnt reflect todays status for any of mine
<ogra> anyway
<ogra> freescale-desktop: Waiting on manoao replacement (IS) to build functional squashfs images
<plars> yeah, page doesn't seem to be updated :(
<ogra> manoao is borked and cant produce uasable squashfes atm, IS is in the process to replace it, they got 10 new boards for buildds and imagebuilders
<ogra> until its back we cant roll any images ...
<ogra> offline-installer-gui: Trying to find a fix for the missing sched_getaffinity() syscall in qemu-arm-static to make mono packages installable in armel chroots
<ogra> oh, and for freescale-desktop: rtg is in the process of renaming the kernel packages as discussed ....
<ogra> all from me
<NCommander> [topic] plars's specifications
<MootBot> New Topic:  plars's specifications
<plars> UNR testing: added some more testcases to checkbox
<plars> going to see about getting them integrated into daily testing in the lab
<plars> cr3 said he needs to make some minor changes but thinks they can do it
<plars> ARM testing, not much progress, need builds, and hardware
<plars> screen size/resolution testsuite: good progress this week
<plars> added support for editboxes and comboboxes and several new tests
<plars> found bugs already with it!
<plars> done
<NCommander> [topic] dyfet's specifications
<MootBot> New Topic:  dyfet's specifications
<dyfet> Well...the lxde seed was completed, and in doing so provoked a minor war over what really should be in the seed in the public mailing list :)
<ogra> did it settle ?
<dyfet> Kinda...or should I say, more correctly, a "vigorous discussion"? ;)
<dyfet> Nobody has offered any actual changes...
<NCommander> [topic] StevenK's status
<MootBot> New Topic:  StevenK's status
<ogra> and his specs :)
<NCommander> ^spec
<StevenK> Wubi has had some changes commited that might make it work, I'll be testing tomorrow
<NCommander> Er, is lool still on holiday before I ask his status?
<ogra> yes until tomorrow
<ogra> look at your team cal
<NCommander> I don't have it up at the moment
<NCommander> Thanks
<NCommander> [topic] NCommander's specs
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander's specs
<NCommander> mobile-karmic-marvell-desktop: Uh, made quite a bit of progress
<ogra> the kernel team is waiting for a design doc
<ogra> they need to know what deps the packages need for uboot
<NCommander> Its going to be standard flash-kernel
<ogra> no, surely not
<NCommander> Ugh, I didn't know they were dep-wait on that
<ogra> kernel packages are sitting in NEW since 24h
<ogra> flash-kernel is used if you flash mtd (or in special cases SD) devices
<ogra> does your design require the kernel or initramfs to sit in mtd ?
<ogra> (or in a special SD partition thats not accessible)
<NCommander> ogra, its been used to create and install u-boot packages before. I can dump what I was going to put there into the postinst
<ogra> i dont think thats proper
<ogra> the kernel can build uboot bompliant uImage itself in the package
<ogra> *compliant
<ogra> no need for anything special
<NCommander> I can change gears then, and provide them w/ a postinst, thats pretty easy.
<ogra> please document your design somewhere
<NCommander> ogra, I did, its on the internal wiki
<ogra> *before* making up any postinst stuff
<ogra> *in your spec*
<ogra> thats why you have a spec
<NCommander> I'll fix that after the end of thi smeeting
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Specs/KarmicMarvellDesktop is the spec
<NCommander> Anyway, I finished my changed to d-cd yesterday and over the weekend.
<ogra> please put a detailed design description how the images are laid out in there
<ogra> so others can look it up
<NCommander> ogra, I wrote it, I just put it in the wrong place, I'll move it
<ogra> ok
<ogra> just that the kernel team knows whats needed for the packaging
<ogra> and others know what to expect
<NCommander> I'll have my bazaar branches posted later today I hope with my changes, and the boot info moved to the public wiki
<ogra> will you shepherd the kernel packages through NEW once the naming is correct ?
<NCommander> ogra, er, I'm not an archive admin ...
<ogra> shepherd doesnt mean you review them yourself
 * NCommander is unfamiliar with the term
<ogra> have a look at the naming, poke an archive admin
 * ogra sighs
<ogra> (only poke an admin if the naming is fine indeed)
 * NCommander nods
<ogra> and make sure they go through binary new too after they built
<ogra> and test them
<ogra> etc
<NCommander> Alright, no progress on mobile-arm-softbootloader
<NCommander> [topic] GrueMaster's specs
<MootBot> New Topic:  GrueMaster's specs
<NCommander> ^status
<GrueMaster> LSB Testing continued as normal.  No new issues.
<GrueMaster> Currently testing Ubuntu Moblin edition (Ubuntu Moblin Remix) for Moblin compliance.  Will need to test against Moblin directly to establish a baseline.
<GrueMaster> mobile-unr-karmic-applications:
<GrueMaster> Work needs to be done by StevenK.  Empathy is seeded now so I updated the status.  Still need gwibber changes and size reduction changes.
<GrueMaster> That is all.
<StevenK> gwibber is done
<NCommander> [topic] paulliu's specs
<MootBot> New Topic:  paulliu's specs
<StevenK> Size reduction, I'm waiting on you.
<paulliu> resolution: slow progress. But the rest things are easy. I'm putting my efforts to moblin things.
<paulliu> moblin: drafting. Need someone review the spec.
<paulliu> Also I need sync/merging from Debian for 2 packages. librest and webkit.
<GrueMaster> StevenK: Yes, I know.  Will have a list by end of the week.
<paulliu> That's all.
<NCommander> Did I get everyone?
<NCommander> [topic] Any other business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any other business
<ogra> as i mentioned before yesterday 10 new armel buildds arrived
<ogra> davidm carried them by hand to the DC :)
<NCommander> \o/
<GrueMaster> cool.  Does that mean we'll have an image soon?
<ogra> they will have to be set up by IS
<ogra> not sure what the status on that is
<ogra> i know lool worked on the images for them so they might wait for him to return from holiday before starting to get his instructions
<ogra> given that they will likely use USB disks they will be slower than the current ones though
<ogra> which means we need to be even more cautious to not fall behind
<ogra> but that should finally enable us to build armv6+vfp
<ogra> (which in turn will trigger a full archive rebuild)
<ogra> and likely show new build issues in some packages
<ogra> so please help out on the FTBFS list if you can :)
<ogra> (after the machines are in place)
<ogra> thats it from me
<NCommander> ogra, writeup of my current boot proposal moved to the external wiki
<NCommander> anyone got anything else?
<NCommander> guess not
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 08:52.
 * GrueMaster goes back to bed for a few hours.
<kirkland> o/
<Sam-I-Am> mornings
<Daviey> hey \o
<jmdault> good morning
<Daviey> (afternoon) :)
<jmdault> good timezone ;-)
<ttx> o/
 * mathiaz waves
<foolano> o/
<mathiaz> let's get the server team meeting started
<Daviey> hurray
<mathiaz> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is mathiaz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<mathiaz> Today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<mathiaz> last week minutes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20090811
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Asterisk
<MootBot> New Topic:  Asterisk
<mathiaz> what's the state of pwlib?
<nijaba> o/
<mathiaz> it seems that pwlib was the last blocker to get asterisk 1.6 in ubuntu
<Daviey> mathiaz: no change from me here, since last meeting.
<jmdault> pwlib is ok
<jmdault> https://launchpad.net/~jmdault/+archive/ppa
<Daviey> jmdault: so you rebuilt pwlib aswell?
<Daviey> as in, the one in the archive is not good?
<jmdault> Daviey: the one in the archive is missing the -dev
<Daviey> isn't it -develop in the archive?
<mathiaz> jmdault: which package from the ppa should be pushed to karmic?
<Daviey> mathiaz: the pwlib :)
<jmdault> mathiaz: all packages =)
<Daviey> jmdault: http://packages.ubuntu.com/karmic/libpt-1.10.10-develop
<jmdault> Daviey: it didn't seem to match the BuildRequires
<Daviey> true.
<mathiaz> jmdault: ok - next step is to ask for sponsorship then
<jmdault> Debian changed the way the pwlib/libpt package is done
<mathiaz> jmdault: I'd suggest to prioritize the package as this is a long list
<jmdault> mathiaz: I have 2 core devs at the office
<jmdault> =)
<mathiaz> jmdault: are all the packages required?
<Daviey> jmdault: it's my understanding that they want to move as much as possible away from pwlib.
<mathiaz> jmdault: core-dev -> great.
<jmdault> mathiaz: the most important packages are pwlib and openh323
<mathiaz> jmdault: so you know how the process works
<jmdault> mathiaz: as they're the building blocks
<mathiaz> jmdault: ok - so I'd suggest to start by these
<zul> hi
<mathiaz> jmdault: and move down the list by priority order
<Daviey> jmdault: superb.
<mathiaz> anything else to add on this topic?
<Daviey> pwlib -> openh323 -> dahdi* -> asterisk* IMP
<Daviey> IMO*
<jmdault> Daviey: yes
<jmdault> mathiaz: there's one thing to add
<jmdault> mathiaz: Asterisk 1.6 does not support fax as it used to do
<mathiaz> [ACTION] jmdault to ask sponsorship for pwlib -> openh323 -> dahdi* -> asterisk* packages
<MootBot> ACTION received:  jmdault to ask sponsorship for pwlib -> openh323 -> dahdi* -> asterisk* packages
<jmdault>  asterisk-app-fax will need to be removed from the repo
<jmdault> it's been deprecated since 2007
<mathiaz> jmdault: are there any plans to replace it upstream?
<Daviey> openh323 rebuild will require rebuild of other packages, inc Ekiga i believe.. but that is the core devs problem not the server team :)
<jmdault> mathiaz: Asterisk 1.6 has a bundled fax send and receive function
<mathiaz> jmdault: deprecated -> replaced by something else?
<Daviey> Digium have a non-free fax app now.. don't they
<Daviey> ?
<jmdault> mathiaz: however, the trend is to use iaxmodem + hylafax
<Daviey> ^^ /me does this.. not the cleanest..
<jmdault> also, the asterisk-addons package is not in Debian right now
<jmdault> only in svn
<jmdault> so I took the version from svn
<mathiaz> jmdault: so there is a functional equivalent to asterisk-app-fax?
<jmdault> mathiaz: yes, asterisk 1.6 provides its own app_fax
<mathiaz> jmdault: ok - asterisk-app-fax can be dropped from the archive as there is functional replacement available in karmic
<mathiaz> ok - anything else to add on this topic?
<jmdault> nope
<mathiaz> great - let's move on then
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Update Ebox to 1.3
<MootBot> New Topic:  Update Ebox to 1.3
<mathiaz> what's the state of ebox 1.3?
<mathiaz> foolano: zul: ^^
<foolano> packages are already in the PPA, and I have also attached the diff to the lp bugs
<zul> its on my plate for this afternoon
<foolano> :)
<mathiaz> ok - seems like everything is on track.
<foolano> btw, there's a new dependency that i uploaded to revu and to debian
<mathiaz> Feature Freeze is next week - so plan accordingly
<foolano> it made it to the debian archive before, so i dunno what i should do with it
<mathiaz> foolano: I've read your email to ubuntu-server about slapd and will reply to it later today
<zul> foolano: just sync it then
<foolano> mathiaz: thx :)
<mathiaz> foolano: if the package is already in the debian archive you can ask for a sync
<foolano> ok :)
<mathiaz> foolano: but it needs to get passed the NEW queue
<mathiaz> foolano: the Debian NEW queue
<foolano> mathiaz: it has already passed the NEW queue
<mathiaz> foolano: ok - then a Sync request is the next step
<foolano> cool
<mathiaz> [ACTION] zul to review ebox 1.3 packages
<MootBot> ACTION received:  zul to review ebox 1.3 packages
<mathiaz> anything else to add on this topic?
<foolano> nope
<mathiaz> great - let's move on
<mathiaz> that's all from last week minutes
<mathiaz> anything else to add wrt last week meeting?
<Daviey> hmm
<Daviey> ubuntu-server-tips
<Daviey> mathiaz: may i?
<mathiaz> Daviey: I'll get to this one later
<Daviey> ok.
<mathiaz> ok - let's move on.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] SRU weekly review
<MootBot> New Topic:  SRU weekly review
<ttx> yay
<zul> yay...
<mathiaz> As announced in the agenda I've put up one more list online
<Daviey> \o/
 * zul suggests #382136
<mathiaz> http://people.canonical.com/~mathiaz/fix-released-bugs.ubuntu-server.2009-08-17.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~mathiaz/fix-released-bugs.ubuntu-server.2009-08-17.html
<mathiaz> these bugs have been fixed last week
<mathiaz> which are SRU worthy?
<mathiaz> which *one* are SRU worthy?
<zul> bug #382136 the samba one
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 382136 in samba "Smbd startup failure caused by a failure to create an NT token for the guest account." [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/382136
 * ttx suggests to remove open-iscsi from the "server packages" list, since Foundations takes care of it
<mathiaz> ttx: ok.
<Daviey> ttx: although isscsi is IMO a "server" thing.. so it would be good for us to help, prod and poke where we can, surely?
<ttx> ack on 382136, it's already accepted
<ttx> Daviey: I'm not sure we are in the right position to make decisions for that package, like for example SRU acceptations
<mathiaz> ttx: ubuntu-server removed from the open-iscsi bug contact
<Daviey> ttx: sure.
<ttx> that doesn't prevent us from helping triaging there :)
<mathiaz> ttx: and thus open-iscsi won't show up on the lists anymore
<mathiaz> how about bug 57974?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 57974 in vtun "VTun client segfault" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/57974
<mathiaz> zul: how did that bug got fix released?
<Daviey> Does   Bug #358723:
<Daviey> This report is public edit
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 358723 in awstats "awstats.pl does not close table row" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/358723
<Daviey> need an SRU?
<zul> mathias: looking at the mailing list archives and the bug is 3 years old as well
<ttx> Daviey: sounds like an easy workaround, and the bug is quite specific
<mathiaz> Daviey: would it fit any of the criteria of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates?
<mathiaz> zul: upstream mailing list archive?
<zul> mathiaz: correct
<Daviey> mathiaz: probably not.
<mathiaz> zul: and having a bug 3 years old doesn't mean that it must be fixed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 3 in rosetta "Custom information for each translation team" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/3
<ttx> heh
<mathiaz> zul: I'd suggest to try to add a reason why the bug is fixed released
<zul> mathiaz: tracking down the fix might be a bit harder as well
<mathiaz> ok - anything else from the list?
<zul> mathiaz: sure
<ttx> I'm not sure bug 254687 should be fix-released
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 254687 in vsftpd "userlist options doesn't work in vsftpd" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/254687
<ttx> "What i did is copy and paste users twice in user_list file and it worked" sounds like there is still a bug there
<ttx> A "low" one, granted, with an easy workaround...
<ttx> or do I miss something ?
 * mathiaz agrees
<ttx> zul: if you agree, reopen that one.
<zul> k
<ttx> mathiaz: nothing else in that list I guess
<mathiaz> ok - let's move on then
<mathiaz> to the next list
<mathiaz> http://people.canonical.com/~mathiaz/nominated-bugs.ubuntu-server.2009-08-17.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~mathiaz/nominated-bugs.ubuntu-server.2009-08-17.html
<mathiaz> ^^ these are the bugs that are nominated for each release
<mathiaz> we should either accept or decline every one of them
<mathiaz> which one should be accepted?
<ttx> I would obviously accept bug 379748, I nominated it :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 379748 in squid "Please import a fix for Debian bug 513102 (resolvconf integration)" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/379748
<ttx> I'd also accept bug 272060
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 272060 in likewise-open "Missing DDNS update when a domain is joined" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/272060
<Daviey> well the ones marked with CVE are possibly worthy..
<mathiaz> ttx: accepted
<ttx> Daviey: they are uisually already fixed
<ttx> just need some cleanups
<ttx> I'd accept bug 253743
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 253743 in apache2 "[SRU] Add status to init script" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/253743
<ttx> that's all for me
<mathiaz> ttx: hm - how would it fit under the SRU criteria?
<mathiaz> ttx: it's a new feature AFAICT
<Daviey> I do wonder if 253743 is worth fixing for hardy.. Surely there is a worthy work-around if that bug is a year old?
<ttx> mathiaz: agreed. Decline it.
<MsMaco> i would assume the workaround is ps
<mathiaz> ok - anything else worth accepting on the nominated list?
<mathiaz> if not, all the remaining bugs should be marked declined
<mathiaz> if not, all the remaining bugs should be declined
<Daviey> 282876 ?
<mathiaz> bug 282876
<ttx> I will go through the list and accept/fix-released the ones that happen to be already fixed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 282876 in drbd8 "drbd doesn't start on boot" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/282876
<zul> the via padlock ones should probably be denied
<mathiaz> [ACTION] ttx to go throught the list of nominated bugs and decline them
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ttx to go throught the list of nominated bugs and decline them
<Sam-I-Am> how do segfault-type bugs get handled?  i have one that belongs to dhcp3, but isn't being worked on...
<ttx> mathiaz: I'll leave the dubious ones for more fun next week.
<mathiaz> zul: done
<mdz> Sam-I-Am, they generally need to be checked for private information and then made public before most developers can see them
<nijaba> Sam-I-Am: on a server package?  bug # please?
<Sam-I-Am> 358589
<Daviey> bug 358589
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 358589 in dhcp3 "Segmentation fault during peer startup in failover configuration" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/358589
<mdz> oh, it isn't a crash report
<mathiaz> allright - that's all for the Weekly SRU review
<mathiaz> anything else to add?
<mathiaz> next week we'll add one more list to review
<mathiaz> which the list of accepted bugs and see how things are working there
<Sam-I-Am> mdz: should that kind of bug become a crash report?
<mathiaz> FYI the whole SRU process is described in the Knowledge base: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#SRU%20resources
<Sam-I-Am> thx
<mathiaz> anything else to add on this topic?
<mathiaz> let's move on then
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] libmysqlclient-dev transition
<MootBot> New Topic:  libmysqlclient-dev transition
<mathiaz> soren: ^^
<soren> Yes.
<mathiaz> well - I've uploaded a new version of MySQL 5.1 to karmic
<mathiaz> and it was promoted to main yesterday
<mathiaz> there are a bunch of packages that need to have their dependencies updated in main: libmysqclient15-dev -> libmysqlclient-dev
<soren> Right. As a result, packages in main that depend on libmysqlclien15-dev will fail to build, so they need to be updated. There's ~10 packages affected by this, afaics.
<mathiaz> soren: yes - I've already uploaded a third of them
<soren> mathiaz: Ah, yes, so I see :)
<mathiaz> A bunch of them are kde/qt related - I'll ask Riddell about it
<mathiaz> and I'll do the rest
<mathiaz> soren: anything else to add?
<soren> Not really. I was just thinking maybe someone else wanted to do it.
<soren> It's not very sexy, but it's always rewarding to see a package with your name on it get uploaded :)
<zul> what about the packages in universe i forget what about those?
<mathiaz> zul: MySQL 5.0 is still universe for karmic
<mathiaz> getting rid of 5.0 is a goal for the next release cycle
<zul> k
<mathiaz> debian is also transitioning from 5.0 to 5.1
<mathiaz> so we should get all the benefits in the next cycle
<zul> and the packages in universe that have the dependency on libmsqlclient-dev15?
<soren> zul: It's still in universe, so they're fine.
<zul> gotcha
<mathiaz> zul: and the dependency should be updated in Debian
<mathiaz> zul: while the transition to 5.1 is going on there.
<mathiaz> anything other questions/comments on this topic?
<zul> nope
<mathiaz> ok - let's move on.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Server tips : implementation
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server tips : implementation
<mathiaz> Daviey: ^^?
<Daviey> ah ha!
<Daviey> Okay, i wrote an update on the ML.. did everyone catch that?
<nijaba> yep
<Daviey> great.. So i wanted to quickly talk about process.. I'm not sure it's a good long term plan for just me to approve and commit tips
<Daviey> We currently have 32 tips committed.. and translations are doing much better.
<nijaba> one remark: I think that some of the tips you approve go well beyond 160 chararcters
<Daviey> nijaba: yeah.. i noted this.. it's not a *huge* problem in itself, as if we want to limit to 160 chars, we can poll fortune to only return short (160 ones)
<Daviey> 160 wasn't an random figure :)
<Daviey> a*
<mathiaz> Daviey: IIRC one the proposal was to do a review before an upload
<nijaba> Daviey: agreed.  Other than that, I have reviewed while translating, and all seem to abide to the rules on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/server-tips
<Daviey> mathiaz: That is great, but how.. Does the weekly meeting really have time to cover any tips from that week?
<mathiaz> Daviey: so you can commit new tips and we can review all of them on a monthly basis before preparing an upload
<Daviey> makes sense.
<mathiaz> Daviey: sending a monthly email to the mailing list seems a good option
<Daviey> Would anybody else like to help confirm / committing them?
<nijaba> Daviey: I volunteer
<Daviey> hurray o/
<mathiaz> great - anything else to add on this topic?
<Daviey> One thing.
<Daviey> I was waiting on better translations and more tips before requesting inclusion in archives
<Daviey> How many tips should the target be, before doing this?
<mathiaz> Daviey: well - FeatureFreeze is next week
<nijaba> Daviey: I don't think volume should count, mostly quality
<Daviey> so should we get it in, then bump with more tips?
<mathiaz> Daviey: so that's the timeline for Karmic
<nijaba> Daviey: so please, go ahead
<Daviey> wilco.
<Daviey> erm, is the plan still to have it as part of update-motd?
<Daviey> In which case, we are looking at main, right?
<mathiaz> Daviey: first universe
<nijaba> Daviey: yep, kirkland was supposed to give us a one line to drop in update-motd.d
<kirkland> nijaba: sure, you want that now?
<Daviey> nijaba: well the script to retrieve a locale tip seems to work. so should be easy for kirkland.
<mathiaz> we're running out of time
<nijaba> kirkland: yep, that would be nice so that Daviey can include it in the package
<mathiaz> so I'd suggest to differ this discussion to #ubuntu-server
<kirkland> nijaba: i'll get with Daviey later today
<mathiaz> anything else to add?
<Daviey> ok.
<nijaba> kirkland: thanks
<mathiaz> anything else to add?
<Daviey> EOF
<nealmcb> :)
<nijaba> Ctrl-D
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time
<mathiaz> next week - same place, same time?
<Daviey> sounds good.
<ttx> yes
<mathiaz> And don't forget that Feature Freeze is around the corner
<nijaba> I'll be off next week, but I'll read the meeting notes :)
<jmdault> mathiaz: sounds good
<Sam-I-Am> mathiaz: one thing... did you get my email about some patches to the build mechanism for openldap?
<Sam-I-Am> mathiaz: not even sure it made it to the list
<mathiaz> Sam-I-Am: I don't think so. Let's take this to #ubuntu-server
<Sam-I-Am> sure
<mathiaz> see you all next week, same place, same time.
<mathiaz> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:00.
<Daviey> thanks mathiaz
<nijaba> thank you mathiaz
<dhillon-v101> hi everyone, I thought this was supposed to be the kernel team meeting
<ogra> in 30min
<iulian> dhillon-v101: 17:00 UTC.
<iulian> So yeah, in 30 minutes.
<dhillon-v101> iulian: I am really sorry to bother you guys
<iulian> No worries.
<dhillon-v101> iulian: You have a unique name :)
<iulian> Of course.
<dhillon-v101> iulian: where are you from? I am from India
<iulian> I'm currently living in Romania.
<dhillon-v101> iulian: Cool that's a nice place
<bjf> smb, that "vacation" feeling didn't last long did it?
<smb> bjf, Hehe, it seldomly does, does it? :)
<cking> here we go
 * smb activates attention circuits
 * apw fades in
<cking> Roll Call
<apw> o/
 * rtg waves
 * lieb waves
 * ogasawara waves
 * pgraner is here
 * sconklin here!
<dhillon-v101> hi everyone
 * smb \o
 * bjf is ready
<cking> OK...
 * jjohansen1 waves
<cking> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is cking.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<cking> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<cking> [TOPIC] Open Action Items: (apw) check up on drbd status in dkms package and kernel
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Action Items: (apw) check up on drbd status in dkms package and kernel
<apw> dammit thats still outstanding
<dhillon-v101> topic
<cking> any progress?
<dhillon-v101> I am a bit new to this meeting  thing can you guys help
<cking> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<cking> [TOPIC] Karmic Release Status: Bugs (Release Meeting Bugs / RC Milestoned Bugs / Release Targeted Bugs)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Release Status: Bugs (Release Meeting Bugs / RC Milestoned Bugs / Release Targeted Bugs)
<apw> cking, no none, i've added it to my todo for tomomrrow ...
<bjf> dhillon-v101, sit back and watch a bit, you'll get the hang of it
<ogasawara> Release Meeting Bugs (2 bugs) - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<ogasawara> RC Milestoned Bugs Alpha 4 (0 bugs) - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.milestone=12712
<ogasawara> Release Targeted Bugs (10 bugs) - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/linux
<dhillon-v101> bjf: alright thanks
<jjohansen1> dhillon-v101: also look at the first link its contains the agenda
<cking> thanks ogasawara
<cking> [TOPIC] Karmic Release Status: Milestoned Features
<MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Release Status: Milestoned Features
<ogasawara> Milestoned Features - https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/karmic-alpha-4
<sconklin> dhillon-v101: cking is moderating, and using the mootbot to keep meeting notes
<dhillon-v101> sconklin: alright thanks
<cking> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-hwdb-workshop (ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-hwdb-workshop (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> cking: nothing new to add for this
<cking> TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-kms (apw)
<dhillon-v101> cking: hi how are you
<apw> nothing much going on there.  just more testing
<cking> anything notworthy?
<apw> nothing significant this week no
<cking> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-new-kernel-on-lts (rtg)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-new-kernel-on-lts (rtg)
<rtg> I've done a bit more on it since last week. I think I'll rework the build before uploading, but I've tested it
<rtg> on a number of server boxes. Its seems as ready as it ever will, though I do need to get the AppArmor user space
<rtg> application updated.
<rtg> Talked to kees about AA, he says its SRU'able.
<pgraner> rtg: this is likely going to be a big one for 10.04
<apw> rtg will we just update AA wholesale ?
<apw> or somehow do it as a backport only?
<rtg> pgraner, yep
<pgraner> rtg: we need to meet and discuss the supportability
<rtg> I've been exploring the issues with other teams
<amitk> rtg: what about other userspace bits?
<rtg> seems that AA is the biggest support problem
<pgraner> rtg: good to hear, we can add that to the agend for the Oct sprint
<cking> ok.. moving on then
<rtg> if you ignore desktop issues, then all seems to be fine.
 * pgraner kicks jjohansen1 
<jjohansen1> amitk: it is the userspace bits that need updating
<amitk> akc
<amitk> *ack
<cking> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-review-of-non-upstreamed-code (smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-review-of-non-upstreamed-code (smb)
<smb> I believe I updated the page on the sprint but since then no change. But nearly done.
<cking> ok, see what happens for next week
<cking> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-android (coolony)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-android (coolony)
<apw> that is mostly pending our decision to rip everything which is commented out
<cking> anyone able to input for coolony?
<apw> i think this one is still on hold pending resource
<cking> ok
<cking> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-suspend-resume  (manjo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-suspend-resume  (manjo)
<pgraner> cking: we can drop it, I've deferred
<cking> manjo sends apologies, he's travelling today
 * pgraner can't type fast enough
<cking> I will slooow down. Sorry
<pgraner> cking: back up for a sec
<cking> back to where?
<pgraner> cking: android is off the table for 9.10, since we have turned  on Bender that should work for anyone wanting to try it
<pgraner> cking: with our kernel, much like OEM did for the demo
<rtg> pgraner, isn't Bender a cartoon character?
<apw> binder?
<pgraner> rtg: typo
<rtg> ah
<smb> rtg, Futurama
<pgraner> rtg: trying to type to fast
<rtg> adult swim :)
<cking> *sigh*
<cking> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: AppArmour (jjohansen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: AppArmour (jjohansen)
<jjohansen1> lp #359338 - ecryptfs, is wip part 1 should be done today
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 359338 in linux "apparmor paths are broken when using ecryptfs on jaunty" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/359338
<apw> iiuc that means we have a viable automatic work around once we have part 1
<jjohansen1> I have also fixed several other bugs that security team have brought up
<cking> ok - so parts 2..N still coming along for 359338
<jjohansen1> with part 1 the security team can update the policy enough to make it work
<jjohansen1> I can't see part2 or 3 hitting in Karmic
<apw> so that takes the sting out of the bug for both ecryptfs and aufs use?
<jjohansen1> but part1 is sufficeint for current policy
<jjohansen1> yes
<apw> good news, thankis
<cking> great. moving on then
<jjohansen1> it works because of how we mount them
<cking> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: ARM-Freescale (amitk, bjf)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: ARM-Freescale (amitk, bjf)
<rtg> I'm working on rebasing fsl-imx51 against 2.6.31-rc6 along with new debian build infrastructure.
<bjf> I've reapplied all FSL patches (including the latest ER9-SP) on Jaunty and issued a pull reques
<bjf> t.
<bjf> Also applied the latest 9 patches from the Marvell tree to the Karmic tree and issued a pull request.
<bjf> Will be reviewing the dove config next.
<amitk> I've been mostly testing the initial imx51 builds and fixing the ethernet driver for the babbage board
<cking> anything else?
<amitk> Working through the specs of the ethernet chip now
<amitk> over
<cking> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: Karmic General Status (rtg, apw)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: Karmic General Status (rtg, apw)
 * cking prods rtg, apw..
<rtg> apw, I've been focused on arm this week. What have you been doing for Karmic?
<apw> most of the work going on here is on regression-potential's we have on our lists
<apw> mostly confirming they are fixed by the updates to -rc6
<rtg> cking,  uploaded -rc6 rebase
<apw> most of the developement effort is in support of the new arm branches in the main tree
<cking> painful progress, but required
<apw> as one would hope the rate of change both in our side, and in linus' tree is slowing
<cking> ok, anymore?
<apw> nothign herre
<cking> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (smb)
<smb> * Dapper:   2.6.15-54.78 (security, new security release in progress)
<smb> * Hardy:    2.6.24-24.57 (security, new security release in progress)
<smb>             2.6.24-24.58 (proposed, starved in accept queue)
<smb>             Will re-upload proposed after security updates
<smb> * Intrepid: 2.6.27-14.37 (security, new security release in progress)
<smb>             2.6.27-14.38 (proposed+security)[20] with 8/24 verifications
<smb>             [replacement ready to include security]
<smb> * Jaunty:   2.6.28-15.48 (updates, new security release in progress)
<smb>             \o/ big proposed update made it into updates!
<smb> The security packages are just now in the oven and should be baked soon.
<smb> Replacement for Intrepid proposed is in place to be accepted.
 * apw points out the jaunty update ... finally that biggy with the stable update made it into -updates
<cking> thanks smb
<smb> Yeah, this helps a lot
<cking> [TOPIC] Netbook Trees: status (sconklin)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Netbook Trees: status (sconklin)
<sconklin> The Jaunty LBM was branched for netbook last week (by apw). That's about it.
<apw> we are also trying to solidify process for direct uploads to the trees
<sconklin> right
<cking> any idea of any patches coming down the pipe?
<apw> as we will have some new security uploads soon for jaunty at least
<cking> thanks..
<cking> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (ogasawara)
<apw> we are hoping for clarification on the karmic patch stack
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> There was 1 kernel config regression but it's been resolved by Luke.
<ogasawara> I'd also note a few others seems to have been resolved with -rc6
<cking> still too early to see if rc6 introduces any more regressions?
<apw> yeah we don't have that big a testing base as yet
<ogasawara> cking: I've been monitoring and have seen maybe 1 or 2 get tagged as regressions
<apw> as we near beta it is increasing as is the regression count
<cking> moving on..
<cking> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> Off to a slow start, but current progress can be seen at:
<ogasawara> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/kernel-bugday/20090818.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/kernel-bugday/20090818.html
<cking> any community input?
<apw> yeah not had a chance to look at mine as yet, hoping to get to them tommorrow
<ogasawara> cking: not yet :(
<cking> thanks ogasawara
<cking> [TOPIC] Open discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<apw> dhillon-v101, have anything
<dhillon-v101> yah I wanted to know more about how I can help
<james_w> o/
<ogasawara> dhillon-v101: I'd be more than happy to get you started
<apw> sounds good, if you are interesting in how you can help i recon thats a discussion for over on #ubuntu-kernel, we always are keen for help
<dhillon-v101> thanks bjf told me you would help me out
<pgraner> Reminder for the community the Ubuntu Kernel Team will be at Atlanta LinuxFest doing various things... talks, driver hacking session and karmic hw testing
<pgraner> Its on 19 Sep http://atlantalinuxfest.org
<ogasawara> dhillon-v101: jump on #ubuntu-kernel after the meeting and we'll talk more
<dhillon-v101> ogasawara: thank you very much
<cking> great
<cking> Anything else?
<pgraner> For the team if you have a blog get the word out
<amitk> james_w had a question
<james_w> apw: I've definitely seen a drop in interactive performance under I/O load again since the heydey of early karmic, any chance we could get back to that point?
<james_w> I know you had an idea about which patches were credited with that improvement
<apw> james_w, the only one i found to be outstanding in the mix was the -rc which had
<apw> broken load average
<james_w> oh
<apw> i am still not finding it as bad as jaunty, but not as good as that was
<james_w> I agree
<apw> i suspect there is an intereaction there
<apw> i haven't had a chance to investigate more than that
<cking> perhaps filing a bug to raise it's profile and keep this one tracked?
<james_w> I can do that, though it won't be a very informed report
<apw> i think there is one, searching for 'heavy i/o load' i think
<cking> right.. any other open questions...
<cking> [TOPIC] Next Meeting Chair: Manoj Iyer
<MootBot> New Topic:  Next Meeting Chair: Manoj Iyer
<apw> heh, as he is off, he didn't complain ... ship it :)
<rtg> all opposed?
<james_w> bug 131094?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 131094 in linux "Heavy Disk I/O harms desktop responsiveness" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/131094
<apw> james_w, sounds about right
<james_w> subscribed, thanks
<cking> Manoj it is
<cking> Think that's all
<cking> 5
<cking> 4
<apw> 1
<cking> 0!
<cking> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:28.
<smb> what happended to 3 and 2 ?
<apw> i optimised them out
<cking> apw expedited me
<lieb> bye
<apw> cking, thanks!
<cking> thanks everyone
<smb> cking, +1
 * apw gives cking a dholbach style hug
<amitk> bye
<cking> cheers. That's my first meeting - not so bad after all
<JanC> who's here for the loco council meeting?
<popey> o/
 * sbc listens in
<JanC> juliux: ping?
<effie_jayx> o/
<Flare183> JanC: I am.
<juliux> half here
<juliux> i am haveing a phone conference atm
<JanC> there isn't much on the agenda (no approvals), but I think effie_jayx was going to say something about the loco directory ?
<effie_jayx> pk
<effie_jayx> just to give a quick update and answer a few q's on the LoCo Directory and how it will be integrated to the way team data i handled
<effie_jayx> rigght now the frist reelase is coded, iut has been reviewed by folks at canonical
<effie_jayx> and we are just waiting for it to be put online. according to jono it should be another week or so.
<effie_jayx> the loco directory will replase the Big LoCo team list that has served us as a way to find the relevant info for teams
<effie_jayx> we are still defining de details for release 0.2, and it seems we will be adding more features soon
<effie_jayx> if you want to keep uip with the latest info on the directory the pleace to check is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoDirectory
<effie_jayx> and I am happy to answer some q's from the Council if you have any
<JanC> and questions from other people who follow the meeting are welcome too I guess  ã
<effie_jayx> exactly
<effie_jayx> thanks
<effie_jayx> any questions at all?
<greg-g> yes: how awesome with the loco directory be?
<jacob> is there a (public) running instance of this somewhere to preview without having to branch & install?
<greg-g> s/with/will/
<popey> :)
<Daviey> greg-g: Really AWESOME.
<effie_jayx> greg-g, initially it just replaces the funtionality of the big list
<greg-g> Daviey: awesome. thanks!
<greg-g> effie_jayx: awesome.
<effie_jayx> it does provide launchpad integration
<effie_jayx> for date
<effie_jayx> data
 * greg-g appologizes, he seems to have caught something from jcastro
<Daviey> effie_jayx: read only, i assume?
<popey> Daviey: yes, we maintain a list of non-approved and approved locos in launchpad
<effie_jayx> Daviey, it only takes names and other important data from the already created team in launchpad
<popey> data is plucked from that
<effie_jayx> it does so throuigh the launchpad api
<effie_jayx> so the integration with launchpad makes it really usefull
<effie_jayx> we are hoping to have more features that can cmplement the social part that laucnhpad can't cover
<effie_jayx> like knowing wehat events each teams has
<effie_jayx> and maybe sharing pics there
<effie_jayx> blueprints are always welcome
 * Daviey did start making a locomap that i intended to merge with the project.
<effie_jayx> I am working on the xml file as we speak
<effie_jayx> ;)
<Daviey> effie_jayx: the stuff i did was based on json output.
<effie_jayx> ahhh
<effie_jayx> even more vcariants
<effie_jayx> :D
<Daviey> http://locomap.daviey.com/
<effie_jayx> we already have 2 proposals for maps and we are intereted in checking more out
<effie_jayx> the mopre diversity the better
<Daviey> i pulled in data before there was a loco team, so i had to add teams manually
<effie_jayx> well
<effie_jayx> looks awesome
<effie_jayx> if ther is anything we can do to ease the pain let us know
<effie_jayx> a bug report with any data output perhaps
<Daviey> well i haven't touched that code for 4 months.. i showed it to jono and well.. stayed there :)
<effie_jayx> looks cool
<effie_jayx> well maybe we can keep in touch about this and see how we can make it grab data from the django app itself
<effie_jayx> I am already doing this for a drupal integration effort
<Daviey> ^^ that is a django app, so should be pretty trival
<effie_jayx> fantastic
<Daviey> i've got my own database scheme pulling in data from lp, but shouldn't be too much effort to pull that out.
<effie_jayx> Daviey, we did that as well
<effie_jayx> any more questions?
<popey> none here
<effie_jayx> great
<popey> thanks for the update effie_jayx
<effie_jayx> I am done :D
<effie_jayx> no problem
<popey> short meeting :)
<effie_jayx> lovely meeting
<JanC> someone has another question?
<JanC> (not about the loco directory I mean)
<effie_jayx> I have another thing to mention
<effie_jayx> not related to the loco directory
<effie_jayx> mmm it seems better for a loco team meeting
<effie_jayx> nevermind
<effie_jayx> JanC, adjourn?
<JanC> well, if nobody has anything more to say or ask, we can close the meeting I suppose  :-)
<JanC> thanks everybody
<effie_jayx> thanks JanC popey
<popey> np
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-08-19
<dholbach> good morning
<flint> ogra, Good morning from sunny Vermont!
<heno> Greetings Ubuntu QA Team!
 * sbeattie waves
<pedro_> hello everybody!
<bdmurray> hi
<schwuk_> hi
<heno> hey marjomercado
<marjomercado> hi folks
<heno> hi schwuk_, how is Australia?
<schwuk_> heno: very nice, thanks. :) Lovely weather, considering it's the middle of winter!
<heno> here it's actually too hot today ...
<heno> Marjo and I will co-chair today's meeting so he an see how we run these
<heno> so ...
<heno> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:08. The chair is heno.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<heno> welcome  everyone!
<heno> [TOPIC] Introducing Marjo -- heno
<MootBot> New Topic:  Introducing Marjo -- heno
<heno> as mentioned last week, marjomercado is the new Ubuntu QA lead at Canonical
<heno> he's been learning the ropes this week
<heno> plenty of information to digest as you can imagine
<heno> please make him feel welcome!
<heno> marjomercado: do you want to add anything
<heno> ?
<marjomercado> Thanks Henrik
<marjomercado> I look forward to working with all of you folks in the next few weeks and months
<marjomercado> I have had a great welcome from everyone so far. Thx!
<heno> an 'interesting' time to start as we approach the release ;)
<heno> ok, let's get on with our regular items
<heno> [TOPIC] UbuntuBugDay highlights -- pedro
<MootBot> New Topic:  UbuntuBugDay highlights -- pedro
<pedro_> alright so on the previous Thursday we had a bug day based on Notify-OSD
<pedro_> as we promised to the desktop experience folks
<pedro_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20090813
<pedro_> we cleaned up a lot the product and as i promised them during the sprint i'm going to keep an eye to that during next weeks
<heno> the triage hero that day was clearly Pedro himself :)
<pedro_> ~71 were triaged, so thanks to Kamus, MacSlow and arnaud for helping out
<pedro_> ;-)
<pedro_> Tomorrow! we're having a bug day based on Rhythmbox
<pedro_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20090820
<pedro_> i know you like music guys, so if you have some spare minutes join the fun there and triage a bug
<pedro_> triage a bug win a hug, right ? ;-)
<heno> sounds good, thanks pedro_
<heno> [TOPIC] SRU testing -- sbeattie
<MootBot> New Topic:  SRU testing -- sbeattie
<sbeattie> Between the distro sprint and the karmic alpha release over the last two weeks, SRU activity has been somewhat diminished.
<sbeattie> That said, a jaunty kernel update did make it to -updates in the past week, along with a few other packages.
<sbeattie> There were security updates to all kernels, so respun kernel SRUs are coming for hardy and intrepid.
<sbeattie> Thanks to IdleOne, John Lang, Leonel Nunez, Imre Gergely, John Veness, and our own bdmurray for testing out proposed packages and reporting feedback.
<bdmurray> \o/
<sbeattie> As always, we welcome any assistance people can offer in testing out packages in proposed.
<sbeattie> that's all I've got on the SRU front.
<heno> sbeattie: what's the current backlog? perhaps we should have queue and throughput numbers for each open release at these meetings?
<sbeattie> heno: the queues are relatively small currently, but yes, I'll start tracking those.
<heno> ok, great?
<heno> Any other topics?
<heno> bdmurray: where did we get to with the 200 bug analysis from the sprint? has there been further follow-up?
<bdmurray> heno: not yet
<heno> cr3: any feedback from Scott or Dustin on the usefulness of test attachments?
<cr3> heno: nope, I'll follow up with 'em
<heno> ok, thanks
<heno> marjomercado: any questions at this point or anything to add?
<marjomercado> no, thx;
<heno> ok, short meeting!
<heno> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:24.
<sbeattie> Oh, I have a request: I'm doing a UDW presentation on the qa-regression-testing tests and how to add testcases; if anyone comes across a bug/test that would make a good example, please pass it along.
<bdmurray> sbeattie: any kind of bug?
<sbeattie> sure, so long as the testcase for wouldn't be too complex to write.
<sbeattie> thanks.
<bdmurray> okay, I'll keep an eye out
 * heno wanders off
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-08-20
<svschwartz> hi all! ubuntu global jam today, right ?
<dholbach> global jam meeting later on, yes
<dholbach> 18 UTC
<GidgetKitchen> Test
<tgpraveen1> i am guessing the gloabal jam meeting is over?
<andol> tgpraveen1: No, shouldn't start for another half an hour.
<tgpraveen1> k.thx'
<hollman> hello *
<YoBoY> hi
<GidgetKitchen> Hello all
<czajkowski> Aloha
<dholbach> heya
<itnet7> Hey there!
<akgraner> greetings and salutations  :-)
 * travmon  waves to everyone
<jono> hi all :)
<andresmujica1> ..
<travmon> did i miss the meeting?
<jono> travmon, nop
<jono> nope
<jono> starts in five mins
<travmon> nice
<jcastro> \o/
<travmon> ic   mixed up my time zone hehe
<natewiebe13> whats the meeting about? (out of curiosity)
 * pleia2 waves
<jcastro> natewiebe13: we're talking about the weather.
<natewiebe13> haha
<jcastro> j/k it's about the Global Bug Jam
<natewiebe13> so you discuss major bugs?
<dholbach> jcastro: the Ubuntu Globa Jam!
<dholbach> jcastro: the Ubuntu Global Jam!
<dholbach> :-)
 * jcastro whistles
<jcastro> wow I am out of it
<dholbach> after a quick round of introductions we should probably do a Q&A part first :)
<akgraner> jcastro, no more caffeine for you
<natewiebe13> we'll i'll just watch and see :P
<fabrice_sp> o/
 * maco waves
<jcastro> hmm, we should talk about redirecting /GlobalBugJam today ...
<itnet7> akgraner: caffeine is what gets you through!
<maco> or adderall
<akgraner> itnet7, pete hides the caffeine from me..:-(  so sad
<jono> jcastro, well volunteered :)
<andresmujica1> o/
<travmon> hmm  caffeine
<jono> ok folks
<jono> should we kick things off?
<jono> who is here for the Global Jam meeting?
<YoBoY> i am
<dholbach> o/
<andresmujica1> o/
 * andol is, but mostly to listen, he thinks
<rrnwexec> present.
<nuvolari> o/
<magespawn> 0/
<ianto> Naturally
<fabrice_sp> o/
<hollman> o/
<akgraner> o/
 * pedro_ waves
<bdmurray> o/
<jono> wow, great turn out :)
<dholbach> shall we do a quick introductions to learn who's from which loco and stuff?
<jono> thanks everyone for joining
<itnet7> o/
<jono> dholbach, good idea
<nixternal_> oi oi
<travmon> :)
<nellery> o/
<jono> everyone feel free to share one line about who you are and which LoCo you are with....
<GidgetKitchen> o/
 * dholbach is Daniel Holbach from the Ubuntu Berlin team - we did a few jams already and we're looking forward to the Ubuntu Global Jam this time! :)
<jono> Jono Bacon, Ubuntu California LoCo
<rrnwexec> hi, I'm Randall, chief Buzz Generator from Ubuntu Vancouver LoCo
<ianto> I am Chris from Ubuntu Cymru, first Jam this time around :)
<czajkowski> Aloha I'm from Ubuntu Irish LoCo - we hoping to run a few mini work shops online soon in preparation for global jam
<itnet7> Chris Crisafulli, Ubuntu Florida Loco
<maco> Mackenzie, DC Team
<pleia2> Elizabeth Krumbach, Ubuntu Pennsylvania
 * andresmujica1 is AndrÃ©s Mujica from Colombian team !!
<hollman> I'm Hollman Enciso, the LoCo contact U-co
<nixternal_> Rich Johnson, Chicago LoCo
<travmon> Travis Monteith   fisrt timer here
<hollman> andresmujica, :P
<Yasumoto> Joe Smith, Ubuntu California
<akgraner> Amber Graner, North Carolina LoCo..  1st Jam for us..
<pedro_> Pedro Villaicencio from the Chilean LoCo team
<nuvolari> Johan Mynhardt from Ubuntu South Africa LoCo
<kn100> Kevin Norman, from Ubuntu Cym
 * YoBoY is from the french Loco team, have made the last bug jam in paris, planning to do bug jam and doc jam for the global jam
<jono> wow, folks from California, Berlin, Vancouver, Wales, Ireland, Florida, DC, Pennyslvania, Chicaco, Columbia, North Carolina, Chile, South Africa, French :-)
<GidgetKitchen> Mark Terranova California LoCo  & GidgetKitchen
<jono> thats awesome!
<jono> thanks everyone for joining us
<kn100> that's ubuntu :)
<magespawn> Greg Eames South Africa LoCo
<jono> so, I just want to start with the problem
 * jcastro is from ubuntu-us-michigan - hi everyone!
<kn100> what a great time for a netsplit eh
<travmon> oh forgot i in New Brunswick Canada
<dholbach> . o O { speaking of problems... netsplit :-) }
<jono> ok
<jono> :)
 * andol is from the Swedish LoCo, and plans to use this Jam as a kickoff for some local bug triage work
<jono> so lets start with the problem...
<jono> ...https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGlobalJam/Events
<jono> not enough events :)
<jono> I am really keen to see what we can do to encourage more LoCo teams to take part in the Ubuntu Global Jam
<kn100> oh god.. this is gonna be a fun meeting
<jono> heh
<YoBoY> ho, haven't marked my team yet ^^"
<andresmujica1> oeee la ola!!!
<jono> ok :)
<rrnwexec> Ubuntu Vancouver is planning a bug jam, possibly more. Will update the page.
<jono> cool :)
<kn100> ubuntu-cym is taking part
<Mean-Machine> eveninkz
<pleia2> Pennsylvania will be adding ours once we get formal confirmation of our location
<jono> I am really keen to see how we can encourage better awareness of the event and get people involved
<pleia2> (we're doing a Mythbuntu Installfest/Jam)
<natewiebe13> im from london ontario (not on a team.. just watching for fun :))
<czajkowski> I think a good idea would be to get LoCo's to sign up to the page, small things like venue can be worked out late
<jono> so it sees the first goal could be to encourage teams from California, Berlin, Vancouver, Wales, Ireland, Florida, DC, Pennyslvania, Chicaco, Columbia, North Carolina, Chile, South Africa and France to get involved with events :-)
<jono> czajkowski, entirely afree :)
<czajkowski> if they are stuck for help on how to run one we can help on the mailing list or in -locoteams.
<nixternal> jono: nhandler, j1mc, and myself will hammer out a few events when we can all get together
<jono> czajkowski, yeah, we should encourage Q+A in #ubuntu-locoteams more
<jono> nixternal, awesome, can you add something to the page
<nixternal> will do, and it is Chicago, not Chicaco :p
<czajkowski> So we are using DIt, and I've yet to confirm it, it;s a minor issue. others I'm sure are in similar boats re venue, so it's not a big deal and not somthing to get bogged down over
 * dholbach hugs nixternal
<jono> as boredandblogging pointed out on the list, I think it is important to note that you don't have to do everything at an event
 * nixternal hugs dholbach 
 * Mean-Machine hugs czajkowski
<czajkowski> jono: aye Q&A in -locoteams channel would be great as it means people are more inclined to ask questions in there sometimes, as mailing lists tend to be noisey
<Mean-Machine> czajkowski <- ubuntu-ie event organizer :D
<jono> maybe a Q+A session every two weeks could be useful with some identified people answering the questions
<jono> ?
<rrnwexec> in Vancouver, we are considering a Translation Jam as well, since we have a very diverse population
<dholbach> I have a question which is a bit of a follow-up from the post I did on loco-contacts@l.u.c today... Who did NOT mail out the news about the Ubuntu Global Jam to lots of mailing lists / forums / magazines / etc. of their country team?
<pleia2> a formal Q&A in #ubuntu-classroom (where other classes are held and promoted) would be welcome too, just like with the GlobalBugJams
<czajkowski> for those running their first bugjam, don't worry about doing all of the tasks, take one perhaps and work on that, would be my suggestion.
<jono> dholbach, good question
<Mean-Machine> linux format is quite keen on printing planned linux related events
 * dholbach is guilty... I could have definitely mailed a few more folks about the global jam
 * dholbach adds it to his TODO list
<akgraner> we have a venue in NC.. now it's just coming up with a schedule of events and getting folks to come..
<jono> ok, would someone be happy to organize Q+A sessions in #ubuntu-locoteams?
<jcastro> I think it would help for those of us in teams that are pending to still add themselves to the list and put "pending" or something
<YoBoY> hi huats ;)
<boredandblogging> think partly we just need to keep the conversation about it going
<czajkowski> boredandblogging: aye indeed
<jono> boredandblogging, agreed
<boredandblogging> we really haven't blogged about it
<boredandblogging> not as much anyway
<jono> who here has a blog?
<jono> o/
<huats> hey YoBoY !
<akgraner> o/
<czajkowski> which is kinda why I suggested #ubuntu-locoteams as peope are in there and could benefit from chit chatting
<kn100> o/
<boredandblogging> haha
<ianto> zo
<hollman> o/
<maco> o/
<ianto> \o
<kn100> ianto had to be different :P
<jono> \o/ :-)
<jono> would you all be happy to write up a blog entry about it?
<dholbach> jcastro and nixternal have a blog too!
<markjones_> i must admit, i've not heard much about GlobalJam until I spoke to ianto
<itnet7> o/
<rafael_carreras> o/
<nixternal> heh, my blog has been a bit stale...nobody likes me anymore so they don't read it :)
 * jono smacks nixternal 
<kn100> same issue as markjones_ here, but i'd be happy to write a blog entry, it gets 800-900 views a day so :)
 * huats likes nixternal...
<jono> kn100, perfect!
<jcastro> we could also mentioin it during developer week since that's coming up and will attract a bunch of people
<jono> ok, so can we each agree to write up a blog entry?
<maco> aye
<markjones_> yeah, jono: is it worth twittering about GlobalJam?
<czajkowski> agreed
<nixternal> jono: lets not all write them at the same time
<GidgetKitchen> I will unstale our blog & write about it
<kn100> jono: what should we write?
<ianto> Yeha of course, I first need to migrate my blod however...
<magespawn> one from all the loco teams?
<huats> jono: we will write at least a blog entry on the french loco one...
<jono> markjones_, absolutely!
<hollman> yeah
<huats> :)
<nixternal> one or 2 a day would be good, depending on the planet traffic
<jono> kn100, mainly write about what it is, when it is happening and link to the wiki pages
<jono> huats, awesome!
<ianto> kn100: Cough, mention it on any techy mailing list you are on ;)
<kn100> i am not on one mailing list :P
<jono> I would recommend that everyone writes it today, but maybe schedule it to be published at a different time
 * nixternal seriously needs a whiteboard
<kn100> i hate mailing lists
<boredandblogging> can we possibly get other linux sites to talk about it? like lwn.net?
<jono> then they appear at different times
<markjones_> has anybody sent an email to all the Linux User Groups>
<jono> boredandblogging, that would be really cool :)
<jcastro> yeah someone needs to submit it to lwn
<GidgetKitchen> partnering with local LUGs  is another good way
<jono> What would be cool is to have a retweeting campaign
<GidgetKitchen> identica cough
<jono> I will tweet it now
<andresmujica1> If each LoCO Team post a note on their website/homepage it would be great, too!
<rrnwexec> and a re-denting
<huats> GidgetKitchen: that is what we too in France... coordination with LUGS
<jcastro> we need a button for the localteam websites
<jcastro> like we did for developer week
<ianto> Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Linux.com have some sort of blogging platform for members?
<maco> yes
<andresmujica1> jcastro: Exactly!!
<ianto> Some entries on there wouldn't go amiss :)
<andresmujica1> ianto: that's true
<jono> ok sent
<huats> jcastro: that is a goof idea... but please bear in mind the i18n...
<jono> ok, I am keen to get some of these ideas assigned to folks
<Mean-Machine> notify LXF podcast? it's getting very popular now
<jono> so, firstly, who is volunteering to write a blog entry about it?
<Mean-Machine> 'tux radar'
<mhall119|work> boredandblogging: when's the next Ubuntu podcast?
<kn100> i will :)
<ianto> \o
<huats> jono:  I can...
<maco> o/
<jcastro> me too
<boredandblogging> mhall119|work: hah, next week
<rafael_carreras> i will
<akgraner> I will
<czajkowski> I shall also
<kn100> although we will need to schedule them to go out on different days
<hollman> o/
<czajkowski> we'll also get one on the loco site
<jono> ok
<itnet7> o/
<jono> lets schedule these
<jono> one sec
<jono> let me just note these down and then paste
<ianto> Can we bring up the topic of venues later on in the meeting?
<jono> ok the blogging schedule:
<jono> huats - blog today
<jono> ianto - blog aug 21
<jono> kn100 - blog aug 22
<jono> maco - blog aug 23
<jono> jcastro - blog aug 24
<jono> rafael_carreras - blog aug 25
<jono> akgraner - blog aug 26
<jono> czajkowski - blog aug 27
<jono> hollman - blog aug 28
<jono> itnet7 - blog aug 29
<dholbach> nice :)
<itnet7> k
<jono> these dates are not cast in stone, but please try and blog, even if on a different date
<maco> a schedule? oh my
<kn100> perfect
<GidgetKitchen> blog when?
<jono> I really recommend you write it today and then schedule it to be posted at a different date
<jono> many blogging tools allow you to do that
<hollman> ok
<jono> ok, we had the idea of a Q+A session scheduled about the Ubuntu Global Jam every two weeks
<jono> who would like to coordinate this?
<jcastro> I can do one
<kn100> what would be involved
<jono> this will involve setting up the event on the fridge and ensuring some loco leaders are there to answer questions and then promote the meetings
<jono> thanks jcastro
<jcastro> though this is like my 5th one so any help with these would be appreciated. :D
<jono> :)
<jono> jcastro, will rock the house :)
<czajkowski> jcastro: want a hand ?
<jcastro> sure!
<boredandblogging> jcastro: can help as well
<czajkowski> jcastro: grand shall poke you afterwards
<jcastro> k
<jono> ok, what other ideas did we have?
<magespawn> personal blogs also?
<jono> we should have little buttons for websites
<jono> like the dev week buttons :)
<czajkowski> they are rather cute
<kn100> i can do any graphics work you guys need :)
<magespawn> do you want personal blogs too?
<andresmujica1> and a Professional Brochure like the dev one, too
<popey> o/
<GidgetKitchen> FaceBook too dumbed down?
<mhall119|work> I'd like a global jam badge for my website too
<kn100> popey: what LoCo are you representing if any?
<popey> o_O
<jono> kn100, you are happy to coordinate the graphics?
<popey> kn100: is that a serious question?
 * ianto o_O's kn100 too
<dholbach> kn100: that'd be sweet - do you think you could mail your ideas to ubuntu-locoteams@lists.u.c?
<andresmujica1> jono:   Sent the news to linux.com, slashdot.org, lwn.net
<huats> jono: +1 for the buttons but as I said we need to be able to i18n them
<kn100> put it this way, tell me what you need designed and what colours you want and what you want in it and i will do it :)
<jcastro> yes let's not forget facebook!
<jono> kn100, yeah, talk on loco-contacts to get ideas for that :)
<jono> I will post to the Ubuntu Facebook group about the event again
<dholbach> we had this http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3265/2550528941_5677fdf41e_o.png the last time
<jono> andresmujica1, are you happy coordinate getting content out to those sites?
<kn100> so who do i contact?
<andresmujica1> jono: sure, np
<dholbach> kn100: sorry, it's loco-contacts@
<jono> kn100, it is a mailing list
<boredandblogging> kn100: throw it up on Spread Ubuntu
<dholbach> but that banner was entirely focused on bug jams
<jono> dholbach, just take the bugs out of it maybe :)
<dholbach> jono: so a striked-through globe? not sure that's going to work ;-)
<highvoltage> heh
<dholbach> but anyway, let's discuss on loco-contacts@lists.u.c and I'm sure we'll figure something out
<rrnwexec> how about the circle of friends with a globe in the middle?
<czajkowski> papers and bugs and a globe
<jono> dholbach, haha
<dholbach> thanks kn100 for helping out
<jono> good point
<jono> any other ideas?
<kn100> stupid question, what the hell is u.c?
<kn100> ubuntu.com?
<popey> ubuntu.com
<jono> kn100, ubuntu.com
<jono> :)
<ianto> ubuntu,com ;)
<kn100> thought so
 * jono high-fives kn100 :)
<dholbach> ROCK... all questions solved then!
<andresmujica1> jono:  Post a note on the front page for each LoCo Team website
<GidgetKitchen> peanut-butter sandwich with bugs in the jam? too dumb?
<mhall119|work> I like the circle of friends around a globe
<jono> andresmujica1, on which page?
<mhall119|work> make each person represent one of Bug, Package and Doc
<dholbach> mhall119|work: translations!
<highvoltage> a tin of jam with an ubuntu logo :) (although americans call it jello I think)
<ianto> Translations?
<andresmujica1> for example www.ubuntu-co.com  we'll put a note there
<mhall119|work> dholbach: all visual
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Jams
<mhall119|work> doesn't need text
<jono> lets discuss ideas for the button on the website :)
<dholbach> mhall119|work: we'll do translations at the jam too!
<ianto> Most importantly, will there be a mention on the main ubuntu.com site?
<mhall119|work> oh, huh, misunderstood
<mhall119|work> dholbach: but there's only 3 people in the circle of friends, someone's gotta lose
<jono> so should we maybe throw the second half of this meeting open to a Q+A for those of you wanting to organize jams
<highvoltage> heh, look at the second pic on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jam
<highvoltage> look familiar kind of?
<dholbach> haha
<mhall119|work> highvoltage: that's funny
<jcastro> haha
<kn100> highvoltage: win
<highvoltage> :D
<itnet7> highvoltage: jelly :-P
<mhall119|work> that's not bad actually, close enough to the Canonical/Ubuntu logos, but space enough that translations doesn't have to be left out
<dholbach> I noticed that a few folks were new to the concept of Ubuntu Jams and I could imagine there's a bunch who haven't organised every single bit of their Jam yet... does anybody have any question that we can think about together while we're all here?
<ianto> To move on to Q+A (assuming that means Questions and Answers?), have any locos got anyy advice out there for getting venues? Our LoCo has found a few but they ar costing Â£60/day which is erm, _really_ pricy
<ianto> dholbach: Just in time, eh?
<jono> ianto, did you ask on your list to see if anyone has venues available that are free?
<jono> I have found many people have connections to free venues
<GidgetKitchen> Coffee shops always need extra people
<dholbach> ianto: are there any LUGs in your area, where do they meet? are there libraries, schools or universities around that might help out?
<ianto> jono: I've been awaiting a response from jpds in PM to see how the list is progressing, but still no list...
<magespawn> if big groups try schools
<czajkowski> ianto: I use a college, good internet, and students and lecturers are interested
<dholbach> ianto: how many people are you going to expect there?
<czajkowski> ianto: we only had about 12 there and we're hoping to do the same again
<GidgetKitchen> we have one that let's us use their 47 inch tv as a monitor
<ianto> dholbach: First Jam for a small team so not more than 10, from 5 - 10
<mhall119|work> ianto: the Florida LoCo has used a public library's meeting rooms for free
<mhall119|work> just check if you can bring food and drink
<dholbach> at this point I like to share a story about the first berlin release party which I did in my home (that's an option too!) - turned out I had ~40-50 people in my appartment in that night ;-)
<Mean-Machine> folks, don't forget to watch dholbach's video ' Running Bug Jams and Packaging Jams'  -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBY7wfX2jpA
<dholbach> so if you have well-behaved people who bring cookies and cake one's home can work out well as a last resort :)
<mhall119|work> and someone to good lasagna
<ianto> I will ask  at some libraries, places I've overlooked but even  the LUGs have to pay for venues around here, I've spoken to organisers for ideas :)
<highvoltage> dholbach: what's the smalles you can have a package jam? people in my lug are interested, but the talk time slots for our lug meetings are usually 1-1.5 hours long, which is a bit short for a package jam it seems?
<itnet7> ianto: how about local universities?
<jono> also see http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/1730589 - I did a video showing how to organize a Global Jam event
<GidgetKitchen> Do we just have more coffee places on the west coast - they are really needing business
<ianto> itnet7: I will contact a few Unis over the next few days as well.
<dholbach> highvoltage: it's good if you can keep it open-ended so people can join in later on, hang out, get lunch, then do some more and go out for dinner/beer afterwards :)
<jono> GidgetKitchen, I think we do :)
<highvoltage> dholbach: good tip, thanks
<mhall119|work> GidgetKitchen: yes
<akgraner> what about inviting 2 or 3 Small LoCo teams that are in one area..  I was thinking NC, SC, GA and TN...
<natewiebe13> are jam events usually open to the general public?
<mhall119|work> akgraner: that's a pretty big area
<jcastro> natewiebe13: sure!
<dholbach> akgraner: too many acronyms! :)
<akgraner> oh sorry
<dholbach> don't worry :)
<akgraner> North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennesse, and Georgia
<natewiebe13> what about having a annual event that is geared to brining in new ubuntu members (have computers set up for people to use, and a computer continually getting ubuntu installed) to sell the idea of ubuntu to the average computer user?
<highvoltage> natewiebe13: that sounds like an installfest
<dholbach> akgraner: sure, if you can people together like that, that's great
<AegisRising> jono, so adverts in local newspapers could be used to attract attention to the event?
<natewiebe13> kind of like an open house.. put up posters, advertise, etc..
<czajkowski> akgraner: also dont forget wihle it's on for the 3 days, not everyone can make it, dont wory if you cnt do all the days,
<dholbach> shall we move on to local publicity? :)
<dholbach> what did you guys do for advertising the event?
<highvoltage> in our lug we called it a "fiddlefest" for a while becuase the actual installation of ubuntu is so easy, but then there were too many bad jokes so we changed it back to "installfest".
<jono> AegisRising, that would be awesome :)
<natewiebe13> id be willing to do it if there were others from london, ontario
<jono> posters and flyers are really really useful
<czajkowski> I think once we get a logo we can create posters and send out to local areas, to invite people
<ianto> dholbach: Ashemedly not much in terms of advertisingg other than contacting existing Linux groups in the country
<czajkowski> so colleges. business areas which may have an interest
<magespawn> local newspapers will usually run small articles for  free
<natewiebe13> anyone here from ontario??
<GidgetKitchen> What about the pres of the internet Leo, again am i dumbing it down. one mention on TWiT is worth lots of blogs
<dholbach> twittering, blogging, mailing mailing lists, posters and flyers are great in bookshops or in the venue where you're planning it
<greg-g> hey, I can't really pay attention to the meeting right now, but just let me/us know the specific plans and if there is anywhere I can help out
<natewiebe13> nobody from my area :(, if there was.. id definately plan an event
<GidgetKitchen> local talk radio can help with FREE mentions
<rrnwexec> we'll likely pass out flyers as part of "software Freedom Day" sept 19th
<czajkowski> natewiebe13: is there a local LoCo for you?
<rrnwexec> (on the busiest street in the city)
<hollman> rrnwexec, +1 yeah good idea
<natewiebe13> czajkowski: no idea
<GidgetKitchen> natewiebe13: there are. u just have to find them ;-)
<hollman> on the SFD
<natewiebe13> czajkowski: im from london ontario area
<czajkowski> natewiebe13: join the #ubuntu-ca and ask in there or see if they are organising anything
<GidgetKitchen> lindependence day coordination?
<natewiebe13> czajkowski: i actually found out about LoCo teams and jams 1 hour ago :P
<boredandblogging> would suggest LoCos send members to nearby LUGs or open source group meetings to plug GJ
<czajkowski> natewiebe13: cool, well if you need a hand, just shout, the channel I recommened is the canadaian loco
<boredandblogging> its not exactly scalable, but might help
<czajkowski> *canadian
<natewiebe13> czajkowski: it seems to be dead right now..
<dholbach> are there any other completely different questions?
<hollman> the Softawre Freedom Day will be Sptember 19, this day we can spread some flyers
<hollman> softwarefreedomday.org
<ianto> Flyers posters etc, does anyone have any good online resources where they can print and send it to you?
<YoBoY> dholbach: some ideas for what to do on a doc jam? ^^"
<rrnwexec> system76 used to send out free posters
<dholbach> YoBoY: I would have loved to have mdke here - I'll have a chat with him and we'll extend the wiki.u.c/Jams page
<ianto> For American teams?
<dholbach> YoBoY: if you PM me your email address, I can CC you in that mail if you're interested
<dholbach> Does everybody feel comfortable now getting the rest of their Jam organised? :-)
<dholbach> or did we miss something?
<andresmujica1> what about using ustream.tv or mogulus to send a live feed during the event, we can create a general group with different channels for each LoCO team, a webcam should be enough...
<czajkowski> andresmujica1: oh that cold be lotta fun!
<czajkowski> I know last year we were sending picutures and tagging them and flks could follow them
<dholbach> andresmujica1: would you be happy to add that to the Jams documentation somewhere so people know how to do that?
<andresmujica1> ok. added to my TODO list :)
<dholbach> ROCK
<czajkowski> dholbach: I think translations may be the hardest so that would be great!
<czajkowski> andresmujica1: ^^
<hollman> andresmujica1, +1 :P
<dholbach> ok... let's wrap up the meeting now... we have another Q&A session coming up on the 18th September if I'm not mistaken - we can of course keep the discussion going on in #ubuntu-locoteams - I have just one more question:
<dholbach> can everybody quickly sum up what they have on their TODO list now for the Ubuntu Global Jam, so we might help each other out or get ideas from somebody else :-)
<jcastro> I am blogging on monday, and a How to Run a Jam session on 18 Sept
<dholbach>  - mail a few more teams, spread the word on a few German / Austrian / Swiss sites, get in touch with Berlin team, talk to Docs team about Doc Jams, mail more LoCo teams to participate! :-)
<czajkowski> blogging about Ubuntu global jam on the 27th, poke jcastro re Q&A session in #ubuntu-locoteams
 * Delano waves to jono
<Delano> Mr. Bacon, I presume.
<jono> I am going to write some messages on the Facebook group for Ubuntu
<jono> and I will also send actions from this meeting to loco-contacts
<jono> Delano, hey, yep
<kn100> theres a ubuntu facebook group?
 * Delano tips his hat to jono
<Delano> kn100: several
 * andresmujica1 TODO: Contact lwn.net, slashdot.org and lwn.net looking for get some coverage, Add documentation about how to create a live stream with mogulus/ustream during the event
<jcastro> kn100: yes, with over 100k+ people!
<GidgetKitchen> I am blogging this weekend, talking to lugs, setting up a lindependence day with Larry & calling The tech Guy - Leo
<Delano> kn100: and fan pages
<dholbach> kn100: https://facebook.com/ubuntulinux is probably the biggest one
<jono> Delano, :)
<dantalizing> ping lug lists, ping loco team to organize jams in differnt cities, firm up existing jam details
 * kn100 is gonna join
 * Delano plays Wasted Years and dedicates it to jono
<itnet7> ^^ what dantalizing said, and Blogging on the 29th
<akgraner> blogging on the 26th and getting some more stuff in the works...
<rafael_carreras> blogging UBJ on 25th, get a place and spread
<YoBoY> todo:- find ideas for the doc jam and coordinate all the doc jams in french, waiting didrocks bak from hollidays and ask to blog the event :p, make an article for the different french sites, prepare the meeting in paris
<jcastro> how many people you think will show up in paris?
<GidgetKitchen> Oh hot-damn; this is how we jam. Sorry - couldn't resist
<jcastro> Probably more than the facebook group. :p
<YoBoY> lot of :p
<huats> jcastro: we also will have at least an other jam in Toulouse (my place)
<huats> :)
<YoBoY> more than the last bug jam i think
<jono> thanks folks
<jcastro> ah one thing we should mention to all the locos as we spread the word, we want lots of pictures!
<jpds> ianto: I have nothing to do with list creation.
<jono> ok, I will send notes of the actions to the loco-contacts mailing list in a few minutes!
<dholbach> rock and roll everybody!
<dholbach> I'm so looking forward to Ubuntu Global Jam - it's going to be fantastic! :-)
<jono> please follow up with progress on that thread :)
<dholbach> and maybe everybody should pick a different LoCo and persuade them to participate :)
<rrnwexec> http://flickr.com/ubuntuvancouver >> see us there :)
<GidgetKitchen> any so-cal LoCo people here
<dholbach> thanks a lot everybody!
<jono> ok sent
<jono> bye all!
<hollman> bye
<huats> thanks dholbach, jono and jcastro !
<jono> :)
 * andresmujica1 o/
 * dholbach hugs y'all
<rafael_carreras> bye all
<GidgetKitchen> Later. onto #ubuntu-california
<kn100> so what do i need to do jono
<kn100> i can do the blog
<kn100> but the website buttons
<kn100> what do you want
<jono> kn100, as I said, have a conversation on the loco-contacts mailing list - people can help there
<jono> are you on that ist?
<kn100> i subscribed
<kn100> got the mail from you
<Delano> jono: how do I get on that list?
<boredandblogging> Delano: sign up https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts
<jono> :)
<mhall119|work> thanks boredandblogging
<komputes> is the Global Jam meeting still happening?
<kn100> no
<komputes> :(
<blueyonder> Think it started about an hour ago - I woke up too late...
<komputes> yeah, it slipped my mind...
<YoBoY> bye here :)
<Xpistos|work> That was my first Global Jam meeting
<mhall119|work> it was kind of fast and furious in there
<akgraner> mine too..;-)
<akgraner> Moved at the speed of light.. wow!
<mhall119|work> Xpistos|work: is the TN team doing anything?
<Xpistos|work> mhall119|work: I didn't know what a Global Jam was until about 2 hours ago, so I am not sure
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-08-21
 * lool waves
<rickspencer3> hi lool
 * slangasek waves
<fader> o/
<mvo> hello
<mvo> I'm covering today for colin and robbie
<slangasek> pgraner, ogra, Riddell, marjomercado, sbeattie, dendrobates, soren, Hobbsee, ScottK, apw: ping
<soren> o/
<rickspencer3> hi marjo
<marjo> hi rickspencer3
<pgraner> slangasek: rtg & apw will be covering for me
<slangasek> pgraner: ack, thanks
<Riddell> hola
<njpatel> hey hey
<rickspencer3> slangasek: I'll be covering for pitti
<ogra> slangasek, lool is back so i think he will take mobile again from now on
<slangasek> rickspencer3, ogra: ack
<lool> ogra: You mean you dont attend all release meeting??
<lool> :-P
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<ogra> i lurk
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:03. The chair is slangasek.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-08-21
<ogra> but you got the info
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-08-21
 * apw waves
 * apw is covering kernel
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Actions from previous meetings
<MootBot> New Topic:  Actions from previous meetings
<rickspencer3> hi apw!
<slangasek> unfortunately most of these action items were for people who aren't here today
<soren> I can fill in for ttx.
<slangasek> fader: did you and seb128 come up with a plan yet for the nautilus failures in the hw lab?
<fader> slangasek: Not yet, no.
<slangasek> ok, leaving that on the list then
<slangasek> soren: right, did ttx follow up with you regarding the UEC setup doc? :)
<rickspencer3> slangasek: fader: not that seb128 is on holiday next week as well
<slangasek> rickspencer3: ok
<fader> rickspencer3: Ah, thanks.
<soren> slangasek: Er... Yes. About the AWS page:
<soren> AWS pages for the 32 and 64 bit alphas have been submitted to amazon on Tuesday 9/18.  On the submission page it says "Important: After submitting your  information, it will be reviewed by AWS, during which time you will not be able to view or edit your submission. "  At this point I am 'not able to view'
<soren> I == smoser. I'm just relaying stuff here. :)
<slangasek> ok, so we're waiting on Amazon
<soren> Yes.
<soren> If nothing has happened yet on Monday, we'll go and poke them.
<slangasek> how about the UEC setup doc?
<soren> As for UEC setup page, I haven't personally worked on it. FeatureFreeze is a-coming, so it's been deferred a little bit.
<slangasek> ok
<soren> I have, however..
<soren> Written a script that does almost all of it. It just needs some polish. I expect I'll put it in the eucalyptus package, so it should be /really/ simple from there.
<slangasek> ah, spiff
<slangasek> so it should be a short doc when the time comes :)
<soren> Precisely.
<slangasek> ok, moving along
<slangasek> [TOPIC] QA Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Team
<slangasek> fader, marjo: hello
<fader> Howdy :)
<fader> Hardware testing:
<fader> http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<fader> No new distro bugs have turned up this week.  We are still seeing the nautilus crash, but only on a subset of the systems that were showing this issue last week.  (Including in desktop image tests of two of the VMWare virtual machines.)
<fader> I am monitoring this to see if the problem is simply intermittent or if it has actually been resolved on some systems.
<fader> This past week mathben, our intern in the Montreal office, helped verify the existence or closure of some outstanding bugs on the System76 systems we have in the lab, adding logs and further testing to the bugs.
<fader> https://bugs.launchpad.net/system76/+bugs
<fader> Right now mathben is testing the updated kernel images from ogasawara for bug 404264.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 404264 in linux "karmic installer fails to detect Intel 82567 network card" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/404264
<fader> During this week I have been working with manjo to make a new and improved version of a bootable USB hardware testing image.  This will be used at the upcoming Atlanta Linux Fest to test a variety of available hardware.
<fader> The intent here is to gather hardware compatibility data and, as much as is possible at the show, file bugs from the affected hardware.
<fader> cr3 has recently added functionality in Checkbox to allow bug filing when a test failure occurs, so we will be using this feature to get bugs filed.
<fader> Spec progress:
<fader> karmic-qa-extended-audio-testing
<fader> This is targeted for Alpha 5 and is on target.  The automated portion is complete, and the manual portion is mostly done.  I need to extend the manual test cases somewhat to ensure that they cover as many inputs and outputs on audio hardware as possible, after which the spec will be complete and ready for addition to Checkbox.
<rickspencer3> (note even)
<fader> Any questions about the testing or the checkbox audio spec?
<slangasek> fader: nope - were you going to give status updates for the other specs on the list as well, or will marjo, or do we wait until next week for that?
<marjo> * karmic-qa-increase-apport-adoption - Brian Murray worked with the Ubuntu Documentation team cleaning up the http://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReportingBugs page to address usability issues.
<marjo> I will continue to nag the LP team.
<marjo> * karmic-qa-metrics-based-testing - Beta available. Marc is in Phase I.I.
<slangasek> I.I.?
<slangasek> ah, that's in the spec :)
<marjo> any questions?
<slangasek> marjo: should the milestone target for karmic-qa-metrics-based-testing be pushed back to alpha-5 (or alpha-6)? it's evidently not done for alpha-4
<cr3> slangasek: phase I has been done for a while, it should've probably been two specs
<marjo> slangsek: I will look into that & update later
<marjo> thx!
<slangasek> cr3: ok - perhaps splitting it now is worthwhile, so I'm not polling about it for these meetings ;)
<cr3> slangasek: sounds reasonable, will do. no objections marjo?
<marjo> cr3: none; thx
<slangasek> fader, marjo: thanks for the status update
<slangasek> bit of agenda-shuffling, now; soren who's covering for the server team has asked to move up due to schedule conflicts, so we'll take him next
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Server Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server Team
<slangasek> soren: go ahead
<soren> server-karmic-eucalyptus-in-main: MIR processing in progress, unfortunately most of MIR team were in vacation recently
<soren> and...
<soren> server-karmic-cloud-cluster-computing: classads has been uploaded, condor is almost ready
<slangasek> soren: what does that mean as far as mpich, which is mentioned prominently in the spec?
<lool> There's a separate MIR for vtun
<lool> Is this under control?
<slangasek> for the MIR processing, do you think the remainder is on target for alpha-5?
<lool> vtun is not very welcome in main, so I was wondering whether this was being discussed with the upstream euca folks
<soren> slangasek: I'm not sure, to be honest. I believe so, but it's in the hands of the MIR team.
<lool> slangasek: I'm not sure all of it will make it for A5, but probably some 2/3; we can probably bump stuff to main and milestone the final reviews for A6 in the worst case
<soren> lool: It is being discussed, yes.
<soren> I'm curious..
<lool> There are some security reviews and simply a lot of packages
<soren> Will we be considering the MIR process part of the various freezes as well?
 * lool has no opinion on this
<slangasek> soren, lool: ok, someone should take an action to get eucalyptus seeded in time for A5, and ask the archive admins to promote the other packages that are still MIR pending
<slangasek> soren: should that be you, or do you want to give that to someone else on your team?
<soren> I'm just wondering since AFAIR we didn't used to consider moves to main for the various alphas.
<lool> Do we have the final version of euca in main yet?
<soren> slangasek: I can take that action.
<soren> lool: No.
<slangasek> soren: if you mean the milestone freeze, no, we don't stop fixing up package components in freeze
<lool> I'm not sure: do we want to promote the current and AFAICT completely unrelated version of euca to main?!
<lool> Or will the new one land before A5?
<slangasek> [ACTION] soren to get eucalyptus seeded in advance of A5 (~1 week before), and ask the archive admins to promote the other packages that are still MIR pending
<soren> slangasek: Ok, didn't think so. Thanks for clarifying.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  soren to get eucalyptus seeded in advance of A5 (~1 week before), and ask the archive admins to promote the other packages that are still MIR pending
<soren> lool: The new one will land today.
<lool> Ah that clarifies, thanks
<soren> lool: Or Sunday... Before Monday, for sure! :)
<slangasek> :)
<slangasek> anything else we need to cover with the server team?
<lool> soren: Sounds like a good week-end   :-)
<soren> lool: I'm inches away from being done, I just have a load of real world things to deal with today and tomorrow :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Desktop Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Team
<slangasek> soren: thanks, you're off the hook now :)
<slangasek> rickspencer3: hi
<rickspencer3> hi
<rickspencer3> I've made comments about each release bug here:
<rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<rickspencer3> There are only two I am worried about:
<soren> slangasek: Thanks, and thanks for adjusting the agenda.
<rickspencer3> bug #403549
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 403549 in nautilus "nautilus crashed with SIGSEGV immediately after start up" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/403549
<rickspencer3> as it is stuck upstream
<rickspencer3> and
<rickspencer3> bug #394447
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 394447 in hplip "karmic printing regression on HP PSC 750" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/394447
<rickspencer3> as we don't have the capability to debug ourselves - lack the hardware
<rickspencer3> in terms of changes ...
<rickspencer3> Expect some possible regressions as we land updates over the next few days:
<rickspencer3> New Mesa (7.6)
<slangasek> rickspencer3: well, I have the hardware and could arrange to give remote access to it if that were useful
<rickspencer3> Possible new -intel
<rickspencer3> Session menu
<rickspencer3> desktopcouch on CD (via evolution-couch)
<rickspencer3> CUPS 1.4 from svn head will be uploaded before FF (as it's final code, but not marked as such)
<rickspencer3> slangasek: yes, if you could arrange that with Till, would be fabulous
<slangasek> has he said that's what he needs to work on this?
<rickspencer3> I think he has some confidence that upstream will fix it, but I get concerned when we don't have the capability ourselves
<slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to follow up with Till regarding hardware access for bug #394447
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 394447 in hplip "karmic printing regression on HP PSC 750" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/394447
<MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to follow up with Till regarding hardware access for bug #394447
<rickspencer3> slangasek: yes, and also that hp often fixes these themselves
<rickspencer3> also note from the Ubuntu desktop side:
<rickspencer3>  No change to X server (sticking with 1.6)
<rickspencer3> Somewhat above burndown, but team expects lots of work items to be closed over next week:  http://piware.de/workitems/desktop/karmic/report.html
<slangasek> rickspencer3: why does desktopcouch landing warrant highlighting as a possible regression?  seems to be a small new package?
<rickspencer3> slangasek: good point
<rickspencer3> not a regression really, just a visible change
<slangasek> oh; but it pulls in couchdb which isn't so small :(
<rickspencer3> will interact with evolution and such
<slangasek> ok
<rickspencer3> yes, exactly ... it is new core technology on the desktop, you should be aware
<rickspencer3> Riddell: do you want to cover Kubuntu status?
<rickspencer3> (note that we've added Kubuntu release status to the desktop team release status page)
<slangasek> [LINK] http://piware.de/workitems/desktop/karmic/report.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://piware.de/workitems/desktop/karmic/report.html
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<Riddell> shall I paste the kubuntu points?
<rickspencer3> Riddell: yes
<rickspencer3> imho
<Riddell> Kubuntu networking working well thanks to asac and others
<Riddell> Impact of xsplash on Kununtu not clear, need to follow up with keybuk next week
<Riddell> CD building currently broken on nvidia-common and python-apt
<Riddell> Kubuntu Council voted for return to Konqueror as default browser
<Riddell> Message Indicator KMail support waiting for new libindicate upload
<Riddell> Currently blocking on GPSD main inclusion report Bug #409796
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 409796 in gpsd "main inclusion report gpsd" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/409796
<mvo> Riddell: could you tell me about the issue with python-apt (after the meeting or out-of-band)?
<davidbarth> Riddell: on xsplash you can follow-up with agateau next week; he can help with integrating kubuntu reqs
<Riddell> mvo: see the CD build logs, packagekit issue
<Riddell> davidbarth: ok, I also scheduled a meeting with keybuk inviting you a few minutes ago
<slangasek> rickspencer3: mm, the comments on bug #396448 on the status page are wrong; this bug causes an intrusive popup at every login for the users affected (not the same as bug #386699, which has the same comment)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 396448 in gvfs "inconsistent automounting on startup" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/396448
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 386699 in gvfs "Mistakes external USB flash disk for system-internal disk" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/386699
<mvo> Riddell: oh, right - glaztor is on it
<Riddell> mvo: I never doubted him :)
<rickspencer3> slangasek: ok ... I just copy and pasted from pitti's last comment, as it seemed he wasn't too concerned
<slangasek> Riddell: what's broken with python-apt?  I saw that nvidia-common is being resolved
<rickspencer3> can we give pitti an action to follow up?
<mvo> slangasek: it break packagekit (it uses some internal api) - I can have a look later
<slangasek> ah, mvo asked that question while I was wading in scrollback ;)
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> [ACTION] pitti to follow up on bug #396448, which should not be marked as "not a release blocker" in the status report
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 396448 in gvfs "inconsistent automounting on startup" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/396448
<MootBot> ACTION received:  pitti to follow up on bug #396448, which should not be marked as "not a release blocker" in the status report
<slangasek> rickspencer3: done
<rickspencer3> kthx
<slangasek> rickspencer3: regarding the upstream bug 402169, 402175 - they're also trivial patches; if you want support from foundations on this to work up the patches, we can probably oblige
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 402169 in brasero "brasero_video_options_new implicitly converted to pointer" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/402169
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 402175 in gnumeric "gtk_tree_view_column_get_cell_renderers implicitly converted to pointer" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/402175
<rickspencer3> slangasek: ok
<rickspencer3> that would be sweet
<slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to look at Foundations providing patches for the 64-bit build failures
<MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to look at Foundations providing patches for the 64-bit build failures
<slangasek> (probably means me, as the erstwhile Debian Alpha porter :)
<slangasek> anyone else have questions for Desktop Team?
<rickspencer3> slangasek: can you give slangasek an action to make those patches
<rickspencer3> ;)
<slangasek> rickspencer3: btw, if gpm is no longer handling brightness, what is?  The last I saw (during the sprint), gpm /was/ still doing it, and if it's going elsewhere I'll need to know for follow-through on a couple of unrelated bugs :)
<rickspencer3> slangasek: I forget, but that's on the Dx team's plate, really
<rickspencer3> davidbarth should be able to speak to that
<rickspencer3> we're just waiting on them
<slangasek> ok; will follow up out of band
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Mobile Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mobile Team
<slangasek> lool: hi
<lool> hey
<lool> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic as usual; with a new per spec sub report (with its own bugs  :-)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic as usual; with a new per spec sub report (with its own bugs  :-)
<slangasek> rickspencer3, Riddell: thanks
<lool> Highlights:
<lool> - good progress on getting final kernels (with naming etc.) in archive
<lool> - livefs builder fixed; first working imx51 image came out today
<lool> - armv7 buildds being deployed
<davidbarth> rickspencer3: the patch is on the packaging queue, in the bug report
<lool> - overall still relatively short on ARM developer hardware as the boards get obsoleted and new+working boards remain hard to get
<lool> - UNR in a good shape, except for a bunch of small bugs introduced with the new upstream versions; being worked on by njpatel
<lool> </dump>
<mdz> bug 410655 is one davidm mentioned he was concerned about
<ubottu> Bug 410655 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/410655 is private
<ogra> heh
<mdz> though it's not on your status page or on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/KarmicReleaseStatus
<lool> Yes, it's one of these bugs we have with UNR
<mdz> dbarth? njpatel?
<lool> The new UNR introduced a lot of crashers in various places
<njpatel> mdz: I thought I'd fixed it but apparently it's still there. I'll reconfirm and try to fix it again
<ogra> why is that still private thogh
<ogra> *though
<lool> Some were addressed just after A4; others are still being addressed
<ogra> retrace is done
<mdz> (I've fixed the privacy flag now)
<ogra> thanks
<njpatel> mdz: I've updated that page with the bug when I was made aware it was still an issue
<slangasek> lool: any idea how long the armv7 buildd roll-out is going to take?  IIRC the toolchain defaults were targeted for alpha5, so the buildds obviously need to be up and running before that
<lool> mdz: milestoning it, thanks
<davidbarth> mdz: we've had a couple like this one and njpatel is looking into it
<lool> slangasek: IS said about 2 weeks last week
<lool> So should happen over next week
<slangasek> so, cutting it rather close for A5
<slangasek> are the toolchain changes themselves staged somewhere and ready to be uploaded?
<lool> slangasek: As I note,I think we'll change them just after A5 rather than just before
<slangasek> ok
<lool> Doesn't gain us anything just before
<lool> slangasek: No, we will push them to a PPA as soon as the buildds appear
<lool> The flags are documented in a toolchain discussions bug
 * slangasek nods
<mdz> lool/davidbarth/njpatel: can you speak to the messaging indicator in UNR (or lack thereof)? Mark asked about this the other day
<davidbarth> mdz: yes, the design is compatible
<njpatel> mdz: I need to update the default panel configuration with it. Also need the new FUSA, so was waiting for that to be included in main before re-doing the gconf-defaults in ubuntu-netbook-remix-default-settings
<lool> mdz: Sorry which package is that?
<mdz> so this is planned to do before FF?
<lool> netbook-remix: * (indicator-messages)
<njpatel> mdz: yes
<lool> Oh in the config
<lool> Right that's an omission
<njpatel> lool: indicator-applet
<njpatel> & indicator-messages
<ogra> + fusa :)
<njpatel> well, indicator-applet-session or something like that afaik
<lool> I'd like to note that we discussed a long term fix for seeds getting out of sync during the sprint
<njpatel> :)
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> new name ...
<njpatel> new code
<ogra> new world \o/
<lool> And cjwatson said we needed a new germinate feature to do this properly which would take a couple of months to happen and we agreed we'd simply continue manually syncing until then
<lool> (But here it's gconf settings not packages so not the same things again)
<mdz> lool: in the meantime, we'll need to track this more closely I think
<lool> Yes, I did ask for a heads up when things would be landing but I realize it's not proper tracking
<lool> Perhaps I should add that to our weekly meetings or similar; suggestions welcome
<lool> For the seeds I'll subscribe to the desktop ones and read commits
<slangasek> should there be an action item for this messaging indicator discussion, or is there a bug # that should be targeted to karmic & milestoned?
<njpatel> slangasek: I should file a bug and target it. there wasn't a blueprint
<njpatel> lool: what should I file against?
<lool> I guess we could track it as a bug or as an action item that we're waiting on new FUSA and will change the gconf settings afterwards
<lool> njpatel: unr-default-settings
<njpatel> lool: coolio, I'll do that before I log off today
<slangasek> [ACTION] njpatel to file bug against unr-default-settings for tracking of message indicator status
<MootBot> ACTION received:  njpatel to file bug against unr-default-settings for tracking of message indicator status
<slangasek> anything else to cover for Mobile?
<ogra> there will be lots of armel bugs coming in shortly now that we actually can build images
<lool> Filed as 417001
<lool> Just got word that oo.o doesn't start on armel in the new image produced today
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Kernel Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Team
<lool> Will file a bug
<lool> Well ogra will  :)
<slangasek> lool: oh, do we need to discuss that further?
<lool> No, too early
<lool> Just discovered
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> lool, ogra: thanks
<slangasek> rtg, apw: hello
<ogra> i booted the first armel image 30min ago :)
<ogra> give me some time ;)
<apw> slangasek, here
<apw> Overall kernel team status is summarised at the URL below,including the bugs called out. AppArmor has patches in testing.  Eucalyptus aoe panic has fixes ready for commit.  The installer bug has patches out for testing.  The remaining two are pending.
<apw> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<lool> ogra: You have, just wanted to mention it
<apw> All items which impact the distro release schedule seem to be on track at this time.  The ARM enablement branches have undergone some major work this week getting the naming acceptable to the archive admins and the installer.  We should see uploads for both soon.
<apw> All the issues which were preventing packages being accepted (lost copyright etc) should be resolved now and in the new uploads.
<slangasek> apw: status on the top two kernel bugs seems unchanged since last week (and for several weeks before); are these bugs really as stalled as they appear from Launchpad?
<slangasek> thats bugs #359338, #290153
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 359338 in linux "apparmor paths are broken when using ecryptfs on jaunty" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/359338
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 290153 in linux "Fails to find boot device in Intel D945Gnt" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/290153
<apw> the first one has progressed, the status should end 'patches for the workaround are in progress'
<slangasek> ok
<apw> the second is stalled currently, though symptoms are majorly improved in karmic latest kerenls
<apw> that should have been 'in testing'
<apw> we have a fair number of regression-potentials which are in work
<apw> the enablement branch work has thrown a number of things off track in the short term
 * slangasek will triage the regression-potential list further this week, to get higher visibility on some of those for the release
<slangasek> any other questions for the kernel team?
<slangasek> I think everyone involved has a good idea where the armel packages stand at this point, at least :)
<ogra> yes
<ogra> should all be good now
 * apw crosses everything
<ogra> thanks a lot for a few weeks of hard work to the kernel team
<ogra> that was quite some effort
<apw> it _was_ a lot of work, but going forward we should be in a more maintainable place
<ogra> (meta just hit the archive for imx51
<ogra> )
<slangasek> yes, thanks to everyone who's been putting work in on those packages
<ogra> it would really be good to be able to build images earlier next release and i think the decoupled trees will make that possible
<ogra> simply we can acrry them forward outdated for the first alphas until the new patcsets are there
<ogra> *carry
<apw> yes we can cope with more deviant invasive code in this new model without impacting x86
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Foundations Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations Team
<mvo> Up-to-date status can be found here:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<slangasek> apw: well, let's hope we might also have less deviant code in the future. :)
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
 * apw will die if we don't
<ogra> high hopes :)
<mvo> >   * Foundations
<mvo> >    * Bug:384579: Linux thinks thereâs a floppy drive when thereâs not. Probing slows down bootup by almost a minute
<mvo>        No updates this week.
<mvo> >    * Bug:403021: OEM install: black screen with cursor on login
<mvo>        Developer (evand) assigned for investigation.
<mvo> >    * Bug:402178: gzopen64 implicitly converted to pointer
<mvo>        Not investigated yet. The package seems to be related to X stuff, so
<mvo> maybe Bryce should look at this.
<mvo> >    * UbuntuSpec:foundations-karmic-apturl-policy (overdue, mvo on leave)
<mvo>        Should be moved to "Implemented" (its currently in beta-available), the code changes to software-properties seem to work fine
<mvo> >    * UbuntuSpec:foundations-karmic-robust-python-packaging
<mvo>        Slow progress, Debian is working on it, in the meantime we will convert critial packages to use DH_PYCENTRAL=include-links
<mvo> >    * UbuntuSpec:foundations-karmic-upgrade-support-in-landscape
<mvo>        The update-manager side of the implementation is ready to use for landscape
<mvo> >    * UbuntuSpec:foundations-karmic-cloud-setup-in-server-installer
<mvo>        On track for delivery in Alpha 5
<mvo> >    * UbuntuSpec:foundations-karmic-grub2
<mvo>        Practically done, but there are some additional changes that enhance the
<mvo>        boot experience that are targeted to be in for Alpha 5.
<mvo> >    * UbuntuSpec:foundations-karmic-multiarch-support
<mvo>        Slow progress on the apt side
<mvo> slangasek: you may want to add more info about the multiarch spec :)
<slangasek> multiarch - slow progress; Guillem has had limited availability to work on the dpkg side, as of yesterday he's done some more work but it's too early to tell if we'll really have something that can land in time for karmic
<mvo> on the bright side, lots of interesst in it now, if it does not make karmic, we should get it for karmic+1
<slangasek> TheMuso has posted to ubuntu-devel about hedging bets against multiarch by getting pulseaudio building with biarch, the list of packages affected makes me cringe and inspires me to try harder on multiarch :(
<lool> on Bug:384579 I think there's a confirmed upstream patch; would be nice to pull it
<sbeattie> lool: actually, on bug 384579, I've pulled it and packaged it; just needs sponsorship.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 384579 in devicekit-disks "Linux thinks thereâs a floppy drive when thereâs not. Probing slows down bootup by almost a minute." [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/384579
<lool> sbeattie: Yeah that's how I noticed
<slangasek> mvo: bug #402178> yes, it's an X dependency, but given that I'm already volunteering to take on the even more desktopy build failures, I figured that one was definitely up our alley :)
<lool> Didnt see it was just waiting for sponsorship though
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 402178 in libpciaccess "gzopen64 implicitly converted to pointer" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/402178
<mvo> slangasek: ok
<slangasek> mvo: bug #384579 - seems sbeattie has a patch, perhaps someone should look at sponsoring this
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 384579 in devicekit-disks "Linux thinks thereâs a floppy drive when thereâs not. Probing slows down bootup by almost a minute." [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/384579
<mvo> slangasek: I can have a look after the meeting
<slangasek> ta
<slangasek> mvo: alternatively, I'll be seeing sbeattie in person in an hour or so and could sponsor it in realtime there :)
<mvo> slangasek: either way is fine, lets see who manages to upload it first ;)
<slangasek> ok, I'm done digesting
<slangasek> anyone else have questions for Foundations?
<slangasek> mvo: btw, if you think foundations-karmic-apturl-policy should bemoved to 'Implemented', I can think of no better person to switch it? :)
<mvo> slangasek: heh :) I will do that, I tend to leave my stuff too long in beta-available (just as my version number are below 1.0)
<slangasek> :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] MOTU
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU
<slangasek> mvo: thanks
<slangasek> ScottK2: around?
<slangasek> any other motu-release folks in the room?
<slangasek> (ISTR from the mailing list discussion that this was about the time ScottK2 was going to have limited availability)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<slangasek> anything else that we should discuss here?
<slangasek> some may notice "ISO size" dropped off the agenda
<slangasek> I decided it wasn't worth having a monologue from me every week about the importance of controlling ISO size
<slangasek> but it's still important, I'm just not going to harp on it to no effect every week :)
<apw> slangasek, perhaps just report the delta?
<slangasek> apw: well, the key point is "everything's too big, we have no room for langpacks", and that's been status quo for weeks
<slangasek> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:16.
<lool> slangasek: thanks
<slangasek> I see everyone's wandered away from their desks already for coffee, then. :)
<apw> thanks slangasek
<slangasek> thanks, folks
<mvo> thanks slangasek!
<indus> hi
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-08-23
<newb> i have a
<newb> opne question
<newb> *open
<newb> i could never understand , how do ubuntu developers earn a living?
<newb>  i want to do exciting things like ubuntu
<newb> but how would i make a living then?
<starcraftman> newb: most ubuntu devs I believe have day jobs like working for companies. Say oracle, fedora, etc... This isn't right channel btw, this is for meetings of official teams.
<Kartik> Hi. can anyone help me with my problem. "I switched the users the screen went blank and upon reboot also the screen is blank. I did the checkdisk in recovery mode but it simply wont work"
<Kartik> whats yr orkut's ID
<Kartik> Hi. can anyone help me with my problem. "I switched the users the screen went blank and upon reboot also the screen is blank. I did the checkdisk in recovery mode but it simply wont work"
<Kartik> Hi. can anyone help me with my problem. "I switched the users the screen went blank and upon reboot also the screen is blank. I did the checkdisk in recovery mode but it simply wont work"
<Kartik> Hi. can anyone help me with my problem. "I switched the users the screen went blank and upon reboot also the screen is blank. I did the checkdisk in recovery mode but it simply wont work"
<Kartik> Hi. can anyone help me with my problem. "I switched the users the screen went blank and upon reboot also the screen is blank. I did the checkdisk in recovery mode but it simply wont work"
<Kartik> Hi. can anyone help me with my problem. "I switched the users the screen went blank and upon reboot also the screen is blank. I did the checkdisk in recovery mode but it simply wont work"
<Kartik> Hi. can anyone help me with my problem. "I switched the users the screen went blank and upon reboot also the screen is blank. I did the checkdisk in recovery mode but it simply wont work"
<Kartik> Hi. can anyone help me with my problem. "I switched the users the screen went blank and upon reboot also the screen is blank. I did the checkdisk in recovery mode but it simply wont work"
<Kartik> whats yr orkut's ID
<Kartik> whats yr orkut's ID
<Kartik> whats yr orkut's ID
<Kartik> Hi. can anyone help me with my problem. "I switched the users the screen went blank and upon reboot also the screen is blank. I did the checkdisk in recovery mode but it simply wont work"
<Kartik> Hi. can anyone help me with my problem. "I switched the users the screen went blank and upon reboot also the screen is blank. I did the checkdisk in recovery mode but it simply wont work"
<Kartik> Hi. can anyone help me with my problem. "I switched the users the screen went blank and upon reboot also the screen is blank. I did the checkdisk in recovery mode but it simply wont work"
<Kartik> Hi. can anyone help me with my problem. "I switched the users the screen went blank and upon reboot also the screen is blank. I did the checkdisk in recovery mode but it simply wont work"
<jpds> Kartik: Erm, dude.
<jpds> Kartik: Please use #ubuntu for support.
<hyperair> i understand some people are just plain impatient, but what good can re-sending the question every two seconds do?
<hyperair> besides annoying the hell out of every one around, that i
<hyperair> s
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-08-23
<Linden940> there got my old name back lol
<kees> meetin' time
<mdeslaur> yellow!
<Linden940> are you asking when the meeting is?
<kees> i'm on triage this week. planning to find something to publish
<kees> Linden940: nh, just declaring the start of one
<Linden940> hmm i c
<jdstrand> o/
<Linden940> <<never been in here yet so I'm all eyes
 * sbeattie is here, too.
<kees> uhm, nothing else, I'm still going to be getting over travel shock :P
<mdeslaur> ok, my turn
<mdeslaur> I've got tomcat6 packages ready to release, and I'm currently testing moin updates
<mdeslaur> I'll probably release them tomorrow
<jjohansen> \o
<mdeslaur> after that, I'll continue down the list
<mdeslaur> that's it from me
<jdstrand> I'll go
<jdstrand> I plan on testing and publishing a hardy/xen regression when the kernel team is ready for me to
<jjohansen> new test kernels are building as we speak
<jdstrand> libvirt update got sidetracked last week, but I plan to work on that
<kees> what's the regression issue? from this latest kernel?
<jdstrand> I managed to find a little time to work on ufw over the weekend, so with luck I'll release 0.30 and push to debian and maverick (couple of nagging bug fixes only)
<kees> \o/
<jdstrand> kees: yes. dom0 would trace back
<jdstrand> kees: -xen flavor only
<jdstrand> I spent toda getting up to speed on using xen and can reproduce and have a testing environment
<jjohansen> kees: its because xen tries mlocking only PART of the stack
<jdstrand> kees: this is bug #620994
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 620994 in linux (Ubuntu Hardy) "linux 2.6.24-28.75 breaks xen flavours (xen kernel bug: 'kernel BUG at /build/buildd/linux-2.6.24/debian/build/custom-source-xen/mm/memory.c:2704')" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/620994
<kees> *hold face*
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<sbeattie> I was on triage last week, as well as off for 1.5 days.
<sbeattie> I'm still catching up on email today
<sbeattie> (I'd hoped my laptop's backlight would have been repaired while I was off, but it was not to be -- backlight's on backorder)
<jdstrand> :(
<sbeattie> This week, I too will be looking for open issues to publish.
<sbeattie> I also need to make progress on on getting apparmor 2.5.1 out the door, sorry jjohansen
<jjohansen> sbeattie: np, its not like I have got the kernel patches out yet
<sbeattie> I tracked down a pam_apparmor issue in lucid, and we need to get 2.5.1 out so we can do the omnibus lucid sru for apparmor
<sbeattie> Umm, I think that's it for me.
<sbeattie> Anyone else have issues they wish to discuss with the security team?
<sbeattie> Hrm, I think that's a resounding no...
 * kees times out
<kees> cool, thanks everyone!
<mdeslaur> thanks!
<jcastro> Accouncement: http://ubuntu.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/security
<jcastro> feel free to participate!
<jcastro> wow, I meant Announcement. >_>
<kees> jcastro: neat, thanks
<jcastro> I'm putting together a guide for existing teams on best practices
 * Linden940 lookin for a good team to start with
<sbeattie> jcastro: cool, thanks,
<Nounoufle> \o/
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-08-24
<ogra> popey, do you or anyone else who has admin on the ubuntu-users ML monitor the "Ubuntu 10.04.1 LTS released" thread ? it seems to be running out of bounds (once again thanks to karl)
<dholbach> popey, make ogra admin, quick! :)
<ogra> dholbach, shush, i have enopugh responsibilities
<dholbach> popey, quick! :)
<czajkowski> popey: is on hols
<czajkowski> ogra: is there ever a thread on that ML that actually doesnt run out of bounds
<ogra> czajkowski, well, if people say "fuck you" or STFU or discussing trhe meaning of rape thats a bit more out of bounds than normally
<czajkowski> ugh
<lag> o/
<mpoirier> mpoirier \o
<ogra> persia, do you run it ?
<lag> mpoirier: mpoirier o/ :D
<mpoirier> he... sleeping...
<davidm> NCommander, you running this show?
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 08:05. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * NCommander grumbles
<NCommander> sorry, alarm failed to go off
<ogra> oh, i thought you had handed over to persia
<persia> no grumbling :)
<davidm> G'day all
<NCommander> ogra: I took it back because my normal dinner plans were canceled
<ogra> ah
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100824
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100824
<ogra> no meow-burgers today ?
 * NCommander throws his cat at ogra's head
<ogra> heh
<NCommander> [topic] Action Item Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action Item Review
<NCommander> [topic] NCommander to unbreak apport retracer (c/o)
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to unbreak apport retracer (c/o)
 * NCommander coughs
<NCommander> This is poriving to be a damn pain because I can't rebuild the chroots on the porter box
<ogra> does it still make sense to re-enable it ? we have beta soon :)
<NCommander> and my bandwidth is ... limited
<NCommander> so c/o
<NCommander> [topic] Standing Items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Standing Items
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile.html
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile-ubuntu-10.10-beta.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile-ubuntu-10.10-beta.html
<ogra> both look just horrid
<ogra> please please please guys, get your items done or postponed
<GrueMaster> I should have my 1 item done today.
<ogra> \o/
<ogra> NCommander, how about yours ?
<NCommander> there's been some VERY slow work on subarch, but I have to add additional work items because cjwatson wants me to review with d-boot before we implement in Ubuntu which is slowing things down
<ogra> Have new warning message about usage of generic fallback code approved and implemented [1 day]
<NCommander> so I can strrike two items, but I have to add two more in there place :-/
<ogra> that doesnt look like it should take much time
<NCommander> hrm, strike one
<NCommander> ogra: it won't, but I've had to rebase some of my code against sid, and spin new patches to submit to d-boot for review
<NCommander> Building a sid chroot on an internet connection that acan make dialup look fast is painful.
<ogra> erm, wasnt that in flash-kernel ?
<ogra> just put it into our tree
<NCommander> ogra: I need an API change in libd-i
<ogra> for the message ?
<NCommander> cjwatson nixed any changes without discucsion from Debian.
<NCommander> ogra: for the code that triggers the message
<ogra> oh, ok, i thought it was a message inside flash-kernel
<NCommander> ogra: thats just a warning that shows up on STDERR, we need one that pops up during install as well
<ogra> NCommander, btw, asac and linaro have massive probs since your code was added to flash-kernel
<ogra> it now runs in any case, even if you are in a build chroot
<NCommander> ogra: have they filed a bug? :-)
<ogra> no, they are working on fixes
<NCommander> ogra: strikely speaking, that's the correct behavior
<ogra> ha !
<NCommander> *strictly
<ogra> they just have
<ogra> Have new warning message about usage of generic fallback code approved and implemented [1 day]
<ogra> ugh
<NCommander> yeah, I should change the time estimate
<ogra> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/initramfs-tools/+bug/623375
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 623375 in initramfs-tools (Ubuntu) "Skipping the bootloader installation when creating rootfs or installation media" [Undecided,New]
<NCommander> probably looking a full week out
<ogra> no, that was mis-pasted :)
 * NCommander looks
<ogra> f-k wasnt executed inside chroots before your change eneterd it
<NCommander> well, it was
<NCommander> f-k just exitted silently :-)
<NCommander> if you have a chroot on a properly supported arch, it works as expected. The problem is our buildds aren't quite supported
<NCommander> [action] NCommander to discuss with linaro and asac on improved-generic-subarch-support
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to discuss with linaro and asac on improved-generic-subarch-support
<ogra> it doesnt work "as expected"
<ogra> since it tries to access the NAND of the buildd
<NCommander> ogra: well .... er, crap
<NCommander> yeah
<NCommander> that's a bug
<ogra> (if your buildd is omap3)
<NCommander> It shouldn't try and do that on a generic fallback install
<NCommander> yeah
<NCommander> oops
<ogra> well, lool and asac are looking into it atm
<NCommander> ogra: I'll work with asac and linaro to get it sorted. My Beagle is in Texas, so someone else will have to test
<ogra> we're simply not affected in livecd-rootfs because update.initramfs is diverted during the build
 * NCommander avoided breaking the world by sheer luck :-/
<ogra> anyway, lets not hold up the meeting
<NCommander> yeah
<NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, mpoirier, lag)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, mpoirier, lag)
<NCommander> ^- ericm
<ogra> hey
<lag> * Marvel (mvl-dove)
<lag>    * FIXED    : ABI bumping and module checking errors after the branch sync'ed with LSP 5.3.2
<lag>    * MISC     : Discussion of moving forward mvl-dove branch into Maverick
<lag>  * Freescale (fsl-imx51)
<lag>    * Nothing new this week
<lag>  * Texas Instruments (ti-omap)
<lag>    * MISC     : lag's Panda is broken - awaiting replacement from davidm
<lag>    * MISC     : Still waiting for TI to release L24.9 to us
 * ogra wasnt done with specs
<lag>    * FIXED    : B591941 work around applied - working on correct fix
<lag>    * FIXED    : B608266 GPMC was not initialized before accessing NAND
<ogra> sigh
<lag>    * FIXED    : B608279 now able to read the EDID from userspace
<lag>    * RESUMED  : B563650 problem can be reproduced on latest 2.6.35-18 with non-UNR file system
<lag>    * ON GOING : B605488 still unable to reproduce - will test on full-build when new HW arrives
<lag> ..
<mpoirier> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/608266 - waiting for mobile team to test
<NCommander> ogra: er, whoops. I took "not hold up" as "move on" :-)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 608266 in linux (Ubuntu Maverick) "[regression] no more /dev/mtdblock devices on omap3 in maverick" [Medium,Fix released]
 * NCommander will go back after kernel discussion
<mpoirier> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/608279 - Fix committed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 608279 in linux (Ubuntu) "i2c support for edid on armel" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<ogra> soryy, i wasnt clear
 * ogra hugs mpoirier 
<mpoirier> ouf ...
<mpoirier> ..
<rsalveti> ogra: mpoirier: did you see my email?
 * NCommander hugs mpoirier 
<mpoirier> yes, did not read yet.
<rsalveti> about edid parsing at u-boot
<rsalveti> mpoirier: the code is basically from omap 4, so in the future it should be easy to port to omap 3
<mpoirier> duly noted.
<mpoirier> very interesting.
<ogra> rsalveti, did dyfet work on that at all (after all its his spec)
<mpoirier> there might be a little bit of time before aI get a new panda.
<mpoirier> I'll look at it.
<rsalveti> ogra: don't know, he's still sleeping it seems dyfet_sleeping :-)
<ogra> hrm
 * NCommander head thunks
<rsalveti> ogra: and he was fixing other bugs
<NCommander> does anyone want to call dyfet?
<ogra> rsalveti, well ...
<rsalveti> could be interesting for him, that's why I added him at the email
<GrueMaster> I will test 608266 today and report back.
<rsalveti> I'm getting i/o errors at mtd now
<rsalveti> but should be normal, probably missing a correct partition table
<rsalveti> [    4.979064] end_request: I/O error, dev mtdblock0, sector 128
<ogra> the table is hardcoded in the kernel iirc
<ogra> if you write to an mtdblock you need to zero it first
<rsalveti> I know, but it's probably empty or never created
<rsalveti> like uImage and rootfs partition
<ogra> what does /proc/mtd report ?
<ogra> if you see partitions there its fine
<rsalveti> ogra: shows fine, because the partition table is in the kernel
<ogra> right
<rsalveti> probably it's trying to mount or something like that
<rsalveti> need to check
<ogra> yeah
<rsalveti> let's also wait GrueMaster to test
<ogra> right
<rsalveti> lag: any news regarding TI tree?
<ogra> and file bugs so mpoirier doesnt get bored :)
<rsalveti> sure :-)
<ogra> NCommander, so since we touched the EDID spec, there is no need to return to specs
<lag> rsalveti: No, nothing :(
<ogra> (and since dyfet_sleeping isnt here)
<lag> rsalveti: We're waiting on sebjan
<NCommander> ogra: np
<rsalveti> lag: hm, ok
 * NCommander still thinks someone should call dyfet_sleeping 
<rsalveti> thanks, anyway :-)
<NCommander> can I move on?
<lag> rsalveti: There's nothing I can do ...
<ogra> NCommander, if the kernel team is happy
<lag> rsajdok: <rock> lag <hard place>
<lag> Doh!
<ogra> heh
<rsalveti> lag: np :-)
<lag> rsalveti: <rock> lag <hard place>
 * ogra steals lag's tab key
<lag> ogra: It was you who told me I could use tab
<ogra> use tab enough times ;)
<lag> heh
<ogra> three tabs and you get what you need ;)
<ogra> oh, i started to see a new bug
 * NCommander files a bug on ogra and lag's use of tabs
<ogra> seems neither omap nor omap4 reboot anymore if reboot is issued
<ogra> at least in initramfs
<rsalveti> ouch
<NCommander> ogra: ugh.
<ogra> i'm not sure yet if thats the kernel or the reboot command from busybox
<NCommander> ogra: does it work in the userland?
<ogra> NCommander, yes
 * NCommander can't see it being a utiluty problem, busybox generally just does a syscall to reboot()
<ogra> but not in initramfs
<NCommander> ooh, ugh
<NCommander> That's nasty
<ogra> and initramfs uses a different reboot
<NCommander> that's fugly
<NCommander> ogra: have fun debugging it :-)
<ogra> :P
<rsalveti> but did we change busybox?
<ogra> thats the issue, i dont think we did
<ogra> and we had at least one kernel upload per subarch since i saw it working
 * NCommander should check if it works on dove tomorrow
<ogra> so i'm tending towards the kernel has changed
<ogra> and busybox calls something it stopped understanding
<ogra> something like that
<lag> ogra: Blames the kernel - shock!
<rsalveti> ogra: busybox (1:1.15.3-1ubuntu2) 19 Aug 2010
<ogra> rsalveti, oh, thanks :)
<ogra> yeah, that might be it
<rsalveti> doesn't seems related, but anyway
<ogra> "* armel seems to build fine without -marm nowadays, so remove it."
<ogra> well
<ogra> (from the changelog)
<NCommander> that seems like a bug :-)
<rsalveti> hm, true, was looking at previous upload message
<ogra> so it builds ...
<ogra> just doesnt run properly :P
<rsalveti> but we can pretend it's a kernel issue so we can keep lag and mpoirier busy
<rsalveti> hehe
<rsalveti> ogra: haha :-)
<GrueMaster> Are we still in meeting mode, or are we deep diving into bugs & possible workarounds?
 * lag has enough to do
<ogra> GrueMaster, meeting indeed
<NCommander> can I move on to QA?
<ogra> NCommander, move !
<rsalveti> goes
<NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)
 * NCommander does as he is commanded
<GrueMaster> Attended QA CoP sprint last week.  Lots of daily test tracking ideas were shared.  Will review and implement something hopefully before Beta.  Need to explore more in detail.
<GrueMaster> Received # new platforms in the last week.  Working to rearrange office to accomodate by EOD.
<GrueMaster> Filed bugs against Banshee and F-Spot.  Possibly mono specific, but I don't know.  Need test suite that can help narrow down mono specific bugs.
<GrueMaster> No new images since Aug 19.
<ogra> GrueMaster, yep
<NCommander> GrueMaster: did you get dove stuff yet?
<NCommander> ^- davidm too
<ogra> GrueMaster, waiting for dyfet_sleeping to fix the FTBFS of telepathy-glib
<GrueMaster> I have received a Dove A0 (part of total # new systems received)
<GrueMaster> ogra: Is that why Empathy is not installing on the new image?
<ogra> yep
<GrueMaster> ok
<NCommander> GrueMaster: good to know. We were still having some issues getting confirmation where they were
<ogra> and it is why i asked him about 6 weeks ago to look at it :P
<dyfet_sleeping> ogra: just rebuild from archive, it is no longer broken
<NCommander> davidm: did you get the two boards sent to you?
<rsalveti> and there you go
 * NCommander kicks the retry button
<ogra> dyfet_waking, it is, i gave it back right after you pinged me today
<ogra> and still fails with the same issues
 * NCommander blinks
<NCommander> ACK
 * NCommander goes into shock from ia64 and sparc's deaths
<dyfet_waking> ogra: what version did you build?
<ogra> dyfet_waking, the one that failed
<dyfet_waking> it's been updated in the archive
<dyfet_waking> 0.11.13
<NCommander> dyfet_waking: and what's what failed
<GrueMaster> NCommander: Looks like the topic moved to FTBFS.
<davidm> NCommander, I have all hardware now
<ogra> dyfet_waking, 0.11.13-1ubuntu1 is what fails
<NCommander> davidm: thanks. I'll inform the powers that be that everything was recieved
<NCommander> dyfet_waking: are you building the source package?
<dyfet_waking> Yes
<NCommander> or are you building the upstream tarball?!
<NCommander> dyfet_waking: how are you building it?
<ogra> dyfet_waking, and the former debian sync also failed already since weeks
<dyfet_waking> libtelepathy-glib-dev_0.11.13-1ubuntu1_armel.deb
<dyfet_waking> libtelepathy-glib-dev_0.11.8-1_armel.deb
<dyfet_waking> libtelepathy-glib-doc_0.11.13-1ubuntu1_all.deb
<dyfet_waking> libtelepathy-glib-doc_0.11.8-1_all.deb
<dyfet_waking> libtelepathy-glib0-dbg_0.11.13-1ubuntu1_armel.deb
<dyfet_waking> libtelepathy-glib0-dbg_0.11.8-1_armel.deb
<dyfet_waking> libtelepathy-glib0_0.11.13-1ubuntu1_armel.deb
<dyfet_waking> libtelepathy-glib0_0.11.8-1_armel.deb
<NCommander> 09:42:02 < dyfet_waking> libtelepathy-glib-dev_0.11.8-1_armel.deb
<NCommander> 09:42:02 < dyfet_waking> libtelepathy-glib-doc_0.11.13-1ubuntu1_all.deb
<NCommander> 09:42:02 < dyfet_waking> libtelepathy-glib-doc_0.11.8-1_all.deb
<NCommander> argh
<ogra> guys !
<ogra> use a pastebin
<NCommander> that was an accident
<dyfet_waking> sorry :)
<NCommander> irssi likes to paste when I middleclick
<dyfet_waking> that was what I got to build this morning on arm on maverick
<ogra> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/telepathy-glib/0.11.13-1ubuntu1
<NCommander> dyfet_waking: what platform are you building on?
<dyfet_waking> beagle...it was slow :)
<ogra> given back twice today, still failing on the same tests
<dyfet_waking> lets discuss this after then...
<GrueMaster> dyfet_waking: YOu should use the dove I have available.  Much faster.
<NCommander> [action] dyfet and ogra to discuss telepathy-glib and report back
<MootBot> ACTION received:  dyfet and ogra to discuss telepathy-glib and report back
<ogra> anyway, beta is next thu,
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
 * rsalveti is using his panda with usb disk, and it's fast
<ogra> it needs to be fixed before friday
<NCommander> I have nothing to report, I haven't had time to work on FTBFS
<ogra> how is kde going dyfet_waking ?
<dyfet_waking> I was going to work from what Michael gave me after waking :)
<ogra> well, please priorize telepathy first
<NCommander> dyfet_waking: please focus on telepathy
<NCommander> d'oh
<ogra> heh
<NCommander> anyway
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<ogra> bad bad bad
<NCommander> very bad
<ogra> as you could see above already
 * NCommander has some good though
<ogra> but ...
<ogra> oem-config has a fix thats pending upload
<NCommander> wooo
<rsalveti> cool
<NCommander> if we could fix telepathy-glib, we can get our images going again
<ogra> (i need to coordinate with cjwatson about uploading it soon)
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> well, there is also a filesystem corruption i have seen
<NCommander> So, I have some news
<NCommander> We've started building dove images again
<ogra> with the preinstalled images
<NCommander> currently only daily-live/ubuntu-netbook
<ogra> lool even sees it *after* jasper has run
<NCommander> I'll be re-enabling alternates sometimes this week for normal ubuntu, as building ubuntu-netbook alternates really goes south
<cjwatson> ogra: coordinate with ev
<ogra> cjwatson, will do
<NCommander> speaking of ubuntu-netbook going south
<GrueMaster> NCommander: Looks like alt-inst images are building too.
<ogra> NCommander, we decided to not support alternates anymore
<NCommander> GrueMaster: no, that was actually a separate issue
<ogra> NCommander, can you instead enable server ?
<GrueMaster> oh.
<NCommander> ogra: cjwatson: can i delete these (http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-netbook/ports/daily/) out of www or do we need to do something special
<ogra> NCommander, just rm it
<NCommander> thanks
 * NCommander didn't know if they were safe to RM directly, or if I would break image building, and get fired
<cjwatson> I think I already said to rm -rf it
<ogra> indeed, thats why i suggested it :P
<NCommander> cjwatson: oh, I must have missed that. Sorry
<cjwatson> no problems
<NCommander> [action] NCommander to clean out the stale dove alternates
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to clean out the stale dove alternates
<NCommander> [action] NCommander to smoke test ubuntu-server dove alternates
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to smoke test ubuntu-server dove alternates
<ogra> NCommander, there are other dirs too that could need cleaning
<ogra> seems someone tried to build daily-preinstalled in /
<NCommander> ogra: indeed, but my link to antimony is so damn slow that I don't want to try to cleanout the www folder until I'm state side again
<NCommander> the lag is so bad that typing something takes about 2-3 secends per char
<ogra> yeah, just have a look around, there is other mess to clean up if you're at it :)
<NCommander> [action] NCommander to flush antimony's expired images
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to flush antimony's expired images
<NCommander> :-)
<ogra> ... and stale empty dirs :)
<NCommander> ogra: IT SHALL BE DONE!
<ogra> haha
<NCommander> [topic] ABO
<MootBot> New Topic:  ABO
<ogra> stop shouting, move
<ogra> bah
 * NCommander wins
<ogra> youre to fast :P
<rsalveti> ian_brasil: ^
<ian_brasil> rbelem patched startkde  (and this was accepted) to start the plasma-mobile desktop and kubuntu mobile default settings package just needs some marketing text changing now - so we are ready to start building images..well, we still need to change the text in the seed to actually call this new default settings and we need a small change to plasma board to add this to the mobile systray but these are very minor things..
<NCommander> ian_brasil: what archs are you planning to build for?
<ian_brasil> armel and i386
<NCommander> ian_brasil: I ask that you only target armel+omap4 and armel+omap for now. We're somewhat strapped for buildd power. Once we get all the kinks worked out o dove images, we can add it
<ogra> well, i wonder if you really want to attempt to run it on omap3
<NCommander> (omap4 is on a dedicated builder, omap and dove are sharing one :-/)
<ian_brasil> NCommander: Ok..we can do that
<ogra> whats the ram requirements ?
<ogra> beagle only has 256M
<NCommander> ogra: I thought there were some omap3 platforms with 512M
<ogra> there is the beagle XM but its still not on the market
<NCommander> ogra: I thought it was out
<ogra> essentially all omap3 512M platforms currently are unavailable
<NCommander> ogra: ugh.
<ogra> apart from the touchbook for which we dont have kernel patches
<NCommander> ian_brasil: if you want to trade omap for dove (which is also not out on the market), that's fine :-)
<ogra> the other 512M hw you saw was all prototypes or not on the market yet
<NCommander> ogra: I never saw any 512M hw directly
<ian_brasil> NCommander: thx
<ogra> NCommander, you were in prague, no ?
<ogra> i'm sure i showed you some :)
<NCommander> ogra: I was working on omap4
<NCommander> :-)
<NCommander> anyway. I think that's everything
<NCommander> anyone got anything else
<ogra> nope
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 08:57.
<ian_brasil> so persia was looking at how we can do the builds and hosting
<NCommander> Cya next week!
<ian_brasil> any news on that?
<NCommander> ian_brasil: persia is AFK, I can assist you with this discussion :-)
<ian_brasil> NCommander: great
<NCommander> ian_brasil: let's move to #ubuntu-arm
<ian_brasil> NCommander: ok
<pitti> Keybuk, cjwatson, kees, mdz: TB meeting now?
 * pitti pings sabdfl
<cjwatson> I'm here, although robbiew also scheduled a catch-up call for now
<cjwatson> I /msged him to ask whether it could be rescheduled
<cjwatson> consider me here for the moment
<mdz> pitti, yep
<mdz> who is chairing?
<cjwatson> agenda says Keybuk
<Keybuk> yup
<cjwatson> now that his internet works ... :)
<Keybuk> was just loading the agenda
<pitti> Keybuk: welcome back to the internets!
<Keybuk> cjwatson: WILL EVERYONE PLEASE STOP SAYING THAT!
<sabdfl> what did i miss?
<highvoltage> pretty much just people welcomming Keybuk back to the interwebs
<Keybuk> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:02. The chair is Keybuk.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<Keybuk> [LINK] Today's Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  Today's Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] Action Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action Review
<Keybuk> I don't see any actions in the TeamReports, and my e-mail is still trickling through so I don't have a last-mailed-out agenda
<Keybuk> does anyone know of any actions they were supposed to do? :-)
<mdz> I missed the previous meeting due to travel
<pitti> we didn't have any last time AFAIR
<pitti> mdz: there was no real previous meeting
<Keybuk> ok, no problem
<mdz> there's nothing on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TeamReports/August2010#Technical Board
<cjwatson> pitti: welcome to the first ever meeting of the Ubuntu TB
<Keybuk> mdz: indeed, as I said
<pitti> we had two agenda points from Keybuk and mdz, but both of you were offline, so we skipped it
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] brainstorm.ubuntu.com
<MootBot> New Topic:  brainstorm.ubuntu.com
<mdz> there's nothing in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TeamReports/July2010#Technical Board either :-/
<Keybuk> mdz: your topic
<pitti> cjwatson: pah semantics :)
<mdz> so, this came up in some engineering management discussion recently
<mdz> and I wanted to discuss it with the TB
<mdz> basically, the question is how to best utilize brainstorm as a mechanism to communicate with our user community
<pitti> mdz: July> that got cancelled as well, due to lack of topics and people
<mdz> my feeling on it is that brainstorm hasn't turned out to be a great way to filter suggestions
<mdz> however, it has been pretty good at highlighting common concerns
<mdz> in other words, it can tell us what people are thinking about
<mdz> as such, I think the right way for the Ubuntu project to use brainstorm is to review the highest-voted items from time to time, and respond to them
<cjwatson> also, without it we'd get even more flooded with bugs :)
<mdz> a response might be:
<cjwatson> I agree, in fact I thought that was what we used to do
<pitti> at least in some UDS preparations we used to look at it
<mdz> - an explanation of what we think about that issue, and how we might approach it
<pitti> but indeed we never paid that much attention to it
<mdz> - a link to some work in progress in that area, to illustrate what we're doing there
<mdz> - feedback on why the idea isn't useful/relevant given the current goals of the project
<mdz> cjwatson, we did that at one time, but it wasn't kept up
<sabdfl> some official feedback on the top n could be useful, but could also just cause a flashpoint to flash
<mdz> pitti, we used to look at it during UDS preparations as a source of ideas: i.e., is there anything here we haven't thought of which we should add to the list of features to examine?
<cjwatson> I don't think we need to commit to reviewing the top n
<mdz> it turned out not to be very useful for that
<sabdfl> fwiw, the design team looked at the top 50 in kicking off the 11.04 thinking
<pitti> mdz: I agree
<mdz> because the items in it are things like "wireless doesn't work as well as we would like"
<cjwatson> we can respond to things which are particularly worth responding to
<mdz> the things in brainstorm are in most cases not "features" at all, not as we would think of them
<cjwatson> and have informal criteria for that
<mdz> they're feedback
<mdz> consolidated, collaboratively filtered feedback
<mdz> and the right thing to do with feedback is to read it and respond publicly
<sabdfl> further, responding well to the most useful feedback encourages more like that
<mdz> sabdfl, they looked at them with what in mind? inspiration?
<sabdfl> and prioritization
<mdz> right, so I think I'm coming at this from a different angle, looking at it as a communication facility rather than as a data source
<mdz> it gives us our best chance at having a dialogue with the user community about things
<mdz> without being overwhelmed
<mdz> so first, do we agree that that is a useful way to position brainstorm?
<mdz> not as a wishlist, or a way to get features implemented, but a way to have a structured conversation with our users about what's important to them
<pitti> that makes it very close to a bug tracker with voting facility
<pitti> but we don't require very precise information there
<mdz> pitti, in functionality, yes, but we don't get bugs that say "wifi doesn't work" :-)
<cjwatson> most of the things in brainstorm are too vague to be bugs
<Keybuk> right, that'd be what I'd ask in return
<pitti> so I concur with your perspective
<Keybuk> how does this fit in with the existing bug tracker, spec tracker and the new stack exchange?
<mdz> the bug tracker is a tool for developers and testers to track technical defects in Ubuntu
<pitti> mdz: right, it keeps that kind of fuzzy information out of the bug tracker (or, rather, we get a little less of those)
<mdz> the spec tracker is a project management tool to keep track of what we're working on
<pitti> so, it's indeed a nice way to get a filtered view what area causes most problems
<pitti> (not that it would be very surprising in most cases, though)
<mdz> stack exchange is Q&A among anyone who is interested in Ubuntu, and is fairly new so we'll see how it ends up fitting in
<mdz> brainstorm, I propose, should be a gateway between the people who make Ubuntu, and the people who use Ubuntu
<mdz> Keybuk, make sense?
<Keybuk> that's a good answer
<Keybuk> how would the people who make Ubuntu (us) use brainstorm?
<mdz> so that's the next question
<mdz> my proposal is that, on a periodic basis, some grouping of the top voted items in brainstorm gets an official response from the project
<Keybuk> I guess a better question, which teams become responsible for reading every single thing posted to brainstorm?
<mdz> nobody is responsible for reading every single thing
<pitti> it just tends to aggregate votes in a rather useless way -- if some people say "my wifi isn't working", others +1 that, but it doesn't tell us much
<Keybuk> I'm a bit worried that that kind of approach turns into "Petition the Prime Minister"
<mdz> but, say, once a quarter or so, a few people spend a few hours going through the *highest voted* items and responding to those
<Keybuk> where the community rally to get something on brainstorm voted highly, and we respond telling them that it's not a problem, etc.
<mdz> pitti, it tells us that our users care about wifi, and that they might appreciate us telling them what's going on
<cjwatson> there are bound to be some we can't respond to in any particularly useful way; IME in the past that has been the case for some of them but by no means all
<cjwatson> indeed I've often got to say "yes, we think this is a good idea, and furthermore we did it three months ago", which is rather satisfying
<pitti> so, we could just try that "respond to the top items where appropriate" and see how it goes
<mdz> cjwatson, yes, there are probably some which fall into that category, and I don't think we should waste time on them if they're noise
<mdz> I think it's OK to respond to say "I can't make sense of this" if it's noise
<mdz> Keybuk, I think the quality of our responses will count for a lot
<Keybuk> *nods* sounds reasonable
<mdz> which is why I think it's OK to limit it to a fairly small number
<mdz> but do a good job of responding
<Keybuk> if we pick the ones we can write the best responses to, we'll get more top suggestions of that kind
<cjwatson> right, there really is no point to the site if nobody looks at it in a semi-organised way, and I think the site is a useful lightning rod, so ... yes
<Keybuk> (people will get the idea of what kind of thing gets responses)
<mdz> taking the wifi example, I think it would be great to have a blog post from somebody very knowledgeable in that area explaining the current state of wifi, why it is the way it is, how we'd like it to be, how it has changed recently, what we're working on to make it better, etc.
<mdz> and would hope to strike a balance between the amount of time we invest in it, and the perceived benefit to the user community
<mdz> I think a couple of hours per response, spread out across the team to the people best equipped to respond, every 3 months, shouldn't be too much of a burden
<mdz> and could be much appreciated
<pitti> so this could become a routine part of the "prepare UDS" or "prepare specs" part of the cycle, to be done by the team/tech leads
<Keybuk> I think there's a consensus here that that would be a good thing; do you want to take an action to make it a formal proposal?
<sabdfl> glitch
<pitti> with "done" -> review and fan out to the experts
<mdz> sounds like consensus, great
<mdz> so at this point in my own thinking, the question became: whose responsibility should this be?
<mdz> and I thought it appropriate to start with the TB
<mdz> I think this should definitely be an Ubuntu voice rather than a Canonical voice
<Keybuk> I was going to suggest the Community team
<cjwatson> I think it should be a technical task as well
<cjwatson> perhaps the TB with guidance from the community team on particularly urgent items
<mdz> I'm not too fussed; I think there are plenty of people and teams who could do a good job at coordinating the process
<cjwatson> and we can fan things out to individuals as needed
<Keybuk> I would be worried that the overly technically minded of us would not be good at identifying the hot topics of our users
<cjwatson> that's why they're voted on by users :-)
<mdz> the important thing to me is to get consensus that this is useful and worth investing in
<pitti> that's why I suggested doing it around UDS -- that's when managers and TLs are in the mood for design and writing tech stuff anyway
<mdz> pitti, so do you suggest a 6 month cadence rather than 3 months?
<mdz> I thought that might be a bit long
<pitti> mdz: 3 months works for me as well
<pitti> mdz: just trying to fit it into existing rhythms
<dholbach> I think it'd make sense for all teams to have a look at it in their respective areas :)
<mdz> pitti, yes, I like that idea as well
<pitti> and around feature freeze there's usually not a lot we can/want to do about changing things
<sabdfl> does it change that fast?
<mdz> dholbach, I don't think that brainstorm can be neatly divided up that way, unfortunately
<cjwatson> dholbach: I think a lot of things would fall through the cracks that way
<cjwatson> cf. "that's a kernel problem" "no it's not, it's a foundations problem"
<cjwatson> ad nauseam
<mdz> pitti, I think it's more about what we say than what we do
<cjwatson> you need a coordinating group or lots of things will just be ignored
<dholbach> sure, I just think we'll get better results if more than just the community team has a look at it :)
<cjwatson> I agree that it should not be just the community team
<pitti> dholbach: I agree; at best, teh community team could ask some expert to respond to a particular question
<mdz> dholbach, I don't think the tech board can delegate work to the Canonical community team anyway ;-)
<mdz> to be perfectly honest we tried that and it didn't work all that well
<mdz> jono tried to route brainstorm items to people, get responses and publish them, and it was a pain
<mdz> I'd like to try to keep it simple
<cjwatson> personally, I think that this fits well into the TB's remit of providing technical direction and guidance
<mdz> cjwatson, exactly
<cjwatson> even if we don't personally write all the responses
<mdz> I think in practice, members of the TB are great candidates for writing responses
<mdz> and where we aren't, we know who to go to
<mdz> so I wondered if this should be a TB responsibility
<Keybuk> it seems there's also a consensus that the TB can be responsible for this
<pitti> *nod*
<mdz> great
<Keybuk> [ACTION] mdz to draft plan/process for brainstorm
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mdz to draft plan/process for brainstorm
<mdz> thanks for the feedback
<mdz> why yes, I would be happy to take an action to draft a proposal
<mdz> no problem Keybuk ;-)
<Keybuk> :-)
<mdz> next topic?
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] Check accuracy of voting procedure on TechnicalBoard wiki page
<MootBot> New Topic:  Check accuracy of voting procedure on TechnicalBoard wiki page
<Keybuk> mdz: stop back-seat chairing
<cjwatson> ok, that was mine
<Keybuk> cjwatson: you're up
<cjwatson> this came from a brief conversation I had with RaphaÃ«l Hertzog where he was trying to establish how the TB was appointed/elected
<mdz> interesting, where did this come from?
<mdz> I'm looking at the part where it describes how the board operates
<cjwatson> mdz: it turned into that LWN article he wrote, I think, although most of this is not really relevant to that
<Keybuk> it sounds like it came from the LWN response of Jef Spaleta to Raphael's article?
<cjwatson> pitti told him that Mark appointed candidates and that the vote was only a "confirmation vote", which is roughly what it says on the wiki
<cjwatson> Keybuk: it was before the article was published, so no
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil/Restaffing has some bits about it too
<cjwatson> let me finish?
<cjwatson> before realising that pitti's comments came from the wiki, I said 'the last one was a vote among several possible candidates, though, so I'm not sure "confirmation vote" is a good way to think about it'
<cjwatson> so now I wonder whether we ought to clarify the wiki a little bit
<cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoard, specifically
<cjwatson> "Appointments to the board are made by Mark Shuttleworth subject to confirmation by a vote amongst Ubuntu developers."
<Keybuk> has that formally changed?
<cjwatson> to me a confirmation vote is an up/down vote for a single person, which is not what the last one was
<mdz> there's also http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/governance
<mdz> that page says that sabdfl nominates candidates
<mdz> and the candidates are then voted upon
<cjwatson> the text on http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/governance is much better
<cjwatson> "In each case, a poll of relevant members of the project is conducted to select, or veto, the final membership of the Community Council and Technical Board."
<mdz> I think it's also...well, accurate
<cjwatson> that doesn't tie us down to a particular voting strategy
<sabdfl> i think i commented on the LWN article, too
<cjwatson> I didn't really want to drag the whole LWN article into it; it got into rather a lot more detail and from my POV my conversation with buxy was essentially independent of it
<sabdfl> showing how the same approach applies to broader governance structures - it's top down delegation, with bottom up tests of confidence
<mdz> I haven't read the LWN article
<mdz> I'm about 3 issues behind
<cjwatson> I really just wanted to check whether we could revise the text on TechnicalBoard to avoid (appearing to) conflict with current electoral practice
<mdz> I think revising the wiki page to match the (authoritative) text on the website is fine
<cjwatson> ok, I'll take an action to do that then
<mdz> I think there are other things on that wiki page which are misleading or wrong as well
<cjwatson> if there are no objections
<Keybuk> none from me
<mdz> it also has far too many Capitalized Phrases
<mdz> we're just not that formal around here
<Keybuk> [ACTION] cjwatson to review and defraft TB wiki pages to match current governance practice
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to review and defraft TB wiki pages to match current governance practice
<mdz> cjwatson, would you mind fixing up the rest of the page a bit while you're in there?
 * cjwatson nods at Matt Zimmerman, Board Member
 * mdz chuckles
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] Fate of ia64/sparc in Maverick
<MootBot> New Topic:  Fate of ia64/sparc in Maverick
<cjwatson> or perhaps I should salute, given that tone
<cjwatson> right :)
<mdz> this is done, I read about it in LWN
<Keybuk> we've announced and agreed to drop these ports, but I've been unable to find any documentation or buttons for actually doing it
<cjwatson> mdz: I thought you were behind
<mdz> cjwatson, just now
<Keybuk> cjwatson: do you remember when we dropped lpia what we did?
<mdz> it's still on the front page
<cjwatson> we made lamont do it
<Keybuk> haha, right
<Keybuk> so this is "invoke IS/duckie" ?
<cjwatson> I suggest getting him to write it up this time :)
<cjwatson> it involved some rather terrifying Launchpad operations
<Keybuk> I thought that might be the case
<Keybuk> I'll continue to action that
<Keybuk> [ACTION] Keybuk to invoke lamont for ia64/sparc drop
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Keybuk to invoke lamont for ia64/sparc drop
<cjwatson> I turned off CD image building for those architectures already, in anticipation
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] Mailing list archive
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mailing list archive
<Keybuk> is there anything on there that needs an action?
<mdz> it's still awfully spammy
<mdz> didn't somebody take an action to ask IS for help with that?
<mdz> there's https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2010-August/000426.html
<Keybuk> mdz: if someone solves that particular problem, they would stop working for us due to being a billionaire
<mdz> (bdmurray's drivers proposal)
<cjwatson> we need to agree on the chromium-browser stuff, but I doubt we can do that in 17 minutes
<mdz> i.e.https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2010-August/000459.html
<mdz> I haven't read the rest of the thread yet
<mdz> cjwatson, we could make a start on it
<cjwatson> I don't quite understand what's going on with the spam; the list is moderated and I'm certainly not approving all that stuff
<cjwatson> oh, hm, generic_nonmember_action is set to Accept
<sabdfl> Keybuk: why would that stop someone working for us?
<cjwatson> I've changed that to Hold, will just mean a bit more manual moderation
<mdz> given chromium is a) in universe, and b) fairly immature upstream (on Linux), I'm inclined to be flexible
<cjwatson> maybe that will help
<mdz> until one or both of those things change
<pitti> cjwatson: ah, thanks
<pitti> cjwatson: but there's usually tons of spam in the moderation queue as well; I wonder why only some is caught
<mdz> once my pinned tabs become visible again, for example
<pitti> mdz: I thought the request was to move it to main
<cjwatson> do not meddle in the affairs of mailman, for you are tasty and good with custard
<cjwatson> ... I don't know
<pitti> (which I'm not at all happy about, FWIW -- chromium is a steaming pile of bugs still :-/
<mdz> pitti, oh, I see
<mdz> I think that's a bigger question than how to do security updates
<mdz> I'm not sure chromium is ready
<mdz> has the archive team taken a view?
<pitti> the main problem is that it's (non-)release strategy is fundamantally incompatible with distros
<mdz> pitti, well, it's incompatible with distros who don't have the same rolling release model
<pitti> mdz: which is "all but Debian testing?"
<pitti> well, and gentoo
<mdz> there are several
<cjwatson> or Arch
<mdz> or Chrome OS
<Keybuk> Fedora
<pitti> they do 6-monthly releases?
<Keybuk> they update after release
<Keybuk> a release is not a static blessed thing
<pitti> but even 6 months is too long for chromium
<mdz> the problem at hand seems to be that it takes too long for security updates to reach chromium users
<mdz> when they use the Ubuntu packaged version anyway
<mdz> our usual solution to that is backporting them
<mdz> has that been evaluated with chromium?
<pitti> mdz: not sure, but given that the code changes a magnitude faster than firefox, I think it's even less practical to do there
<mdz> it seems worth doing an analysis of actual security fixes and backporting feasibility
<mdz> what other options do we have other than backporting and ship-bleeding-edge-everywhere?
<pitti> ship an installer package, like flash
<pitti> and then use the builtin update
 * mdz gets the feeling that some fellow Board Members are reading their email ;-)
<sabdfl> do they flag the security fixes particularly? seems that if their view is "everything rolls" they'd be less inclined to do that
<pitti> sabdfl: there are CVEs for that
<mdz> they treat security bugs differently, use CVEs, etc.
 * kees gets onto after-security-check airport wifi for the last 5 minutes, whee.
<kees> they roll bug fixes in with security updates, though.
<pitti> or, rather, they seem to mark their bugs accordingly
<pitti> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/chromium-browser/5.0.375.127~r55887-0ubuntu1
<mdz> http://www.chromium.org/Home/chromium-security
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.chromium.org/Home/chromium-security
<mdz> explains their policies and procedures
<mdz> Keybuk, time?
<Keybuk> I think so
<Keybuk> who should take the action to further review chromium?
<Keybuk> pitti: ?
<pitti> Keybuk: I think I gave plenty of feedback in the thread already
<pitti> I can do some investigations about backporting fixes
<mdz> delegate to the security team?
<Keybuk> sure, who gives them the bad news? :p
<kees> what is the "question" about it?
<mdz> kees, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2010-August/000459.html
<pitti> kees: whether it's feasible to backport chromium security patches to older releases
<mdz> pitti, I meant delegate the whole issue
<kees> we do it already for firefox; it's up to the desktop team.
<pitti> I just think that even if we do that, people wouldn't be satisfied, though
<mdz> I'm not sure why the TB should be the ones to decide on such a specialist issue
<kees> there is no choice about doing it; there is no sensible way to do per-fix backporting of patches
<pitti> chromium is way too buggy still to ship older releases in something like an LTS
<chrisccoulson> it won't be feasible to backport security fixes to a stable release
<kees> sorry "do it" meaning "take full version updates"
<pitti> ah, there are the experts :)
<chrisccoulson> that would be a crazy amount of work
<jdstrand> we don't backport firefox, we do microversion updates
<mdz> I'm joining a conf call now, goodbye
<jdstrand> kees: ah, yes, right :)
<cjwatson> I have to go as well
<pitti> continue on the list then?
<kees> okay
 * chrisccoulson goes to read scrollback
<pitti> I'll ask Chris/Kees to reply there
<Keybuk> great
<Keybuk> [ACTION] pitti to follow up with kees on-list
<MootBot> ACTION received:  pitti to follow up with kees on-list
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] Community bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Community bugs
<Keybuk> the only open bug is the drivers one of mdz
<Keybuk> bdmurray has a recent follow up, we should make sure that ends up on the bug
<Keybuk> bdmurray: could you forward it to bug #174375 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 174375 in Launchpad Registry "Distribution drivers permissions may need redesign" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174375
<Keybuk> [ACTION] Chair for next meeting
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Chair for next meeting
<Keybuk> I believe it's mdz next alphabetically ;-)
<mdz> ok
<Keybuk> [AGREED] mdz to chair
<MootBot> AGREED received:  mdz to chair
<Keybuk> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:04.
<Keybuk> thanks all
<pitti> thanks everyone
<ogra> wow, you finished at lucid time :)
<JFo> boo hiss ;)
<czajkowski> ogra: thats bad
<ogra> why ?
<JFo> o/
<lag> o/
<mpoirier> o?
<kamal> o/
<lag> mpoirier: Something wrong with your arm?
<smb> \o
<JFo> heh
<kamal> something wrong with his ARM?
<mpoirier> french keyboard...
<lag> kamal: There's lots wrong with our ARMs
<kamal> shhh
<manjo> \o
<bjf> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is bjf.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<bjf> #
<bjf> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<bjf> #
<bjf> I want to start by welcoming Sarvatt to the team!
<smb> +1
<JFo> welcome Sarvatt
<Sarvatt> Thanks, nice to meet you all! :)
<bjf> [TOPIC] ARM Status (lag)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Status (lag)
<lag>  * Marvel (mvl-dove)
<lag>    * FIXED    : ABI bumping and module checking errors after the branch sync'ed with LSP 5.3.2
<lag>    * MISC     : Discussion of moving forward mvl-dove branch into Maverick
<lag>  * Freescale (fsl-imx51)
<lag>    * Nothing new this week
<lag>  * Texas Instruments (ti-omap)
<lag>    * MISC     : lag's Panda is broken - awaiting replacement from davidm
<lag>    * MISC     : Still waiting for TI to release L24.9 to us
<lag>    * FIXED    : B591941 work around applied - working on correct fix
<lag>    * FIXED    : B608266 GPMC was not initialized before accessing NAND
<lag>    * FIXED    : B608279 now able to read the EDID from userspace
<lag>    * RESUMED  : B563650 problem can be reproduced on latest 2.6.35-18 with non-UNR file system
<lag>    * ON GOING : B605488 still unable to reproduce - will test on full-build when new HW arrives
<lag>    * ON GOING : B517841 KEXEC support broken - need to backport some upstream patches to Maverick
<lag>    * ON GOING : B588243 Oops from TI's DSS driver - waiting for upstream merge the fixing patch
<lag> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Release Metrics: (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Release Metrics: (JFo)
<JFo> Release Meeting Bugs (4 bugs, 9 Blueprints)
<JFo> ==== Beta Milestoned Bugs (31 across all packages (down 1)) ====
<JFo>  * 2 linux kernel bugs (down 2)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ec2 bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-mvl-dove bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ti-omap bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-meta-ti-omap bug (no change)
<JFo> ==== Release Targeted Bugs (128 across all packages (up 4)) ====
<JFo>  * 17 linux kernel bugs (down 6)
<JFo>  * 1 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs (up 1)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ec2 bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 2 linux-mvl-dove bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 1 linux-ti-omap bugs (down 1)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-meta-ti-omap bug (no change)
<JFo> === Milestoned Features ====
<JFo>  * 14 blueprints
<JFo> *** NOTE: This listing includes HWE Blueprints***
<JFo> ==== Bugs with Patches Attached:119 (down 3) ====
<JFo>  * https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.has_patch=on
<JFo>  * Breakdown by status:
<JFo>    http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-apparmor (jjohansen)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-apparmor
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-apparmor (jjohansen)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-apparmor
<jjohansen> no change from last week
<jjohansen> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel (jjohansen)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel (jjohansen)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel
<jjohansen> Bug #613083 - awaiting a response from amazon
<jjohansen> Bug #606373 - in progress
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 613083 in cloud-init (Ubuntu) "user-data is corrupted inside metadata service" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/613083
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 606373 in cloud-init (Ubuntu) "cloud-init output does not get to console when booted with pv-grub and ramdisk" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/606373
<jjohansen> Bug #613022, Bug #613273 - I haven't really looked at yet
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 613022 in openssh (Ubuntu) "ssh daemon hangs after publickey packet sent" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/613022
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 613273 in linux (Ubuntu) "kernel panic on ec2 in system_call_fastpath" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/613273
<jjohansen> Bug #574910  - fixed for Lucid and we have a work around for Maverick
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 574910 in linux-ec2 (Ubuntu) "High load averages on Lucid while idling" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/574910
<jjohansen> other than that pv-grub and pv-ops are real nice :
<jjohansen> ;)
<jjohansen> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-bug-handling (JFo)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bug-handling
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-bug-handling (JFo)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bug-handling
<JFo> Nothing to report. Lots in the wings to be finished soon.
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Maverick (ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Maverick (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> Our Maverick kernel is now rebased to v2.6.35.3 and uploaded as linux-2.6.35-18.24.  We've also most notably dropped support for ia64 and sparc per the Tech Board decision.
<ogasawara> Maverick Beta is Thurs Sept 2nd, ie ~1week away.  Beta Freeze is this Thurs, so I'll be uploading our Beta kernel today.  Also, keep in mind that Kernel Freeze is Thurs Sept 16th, ie ~3weeks away.  Remember after Kernel Freeze, we transition to our SRU policy in order to apply patches to Maverick.
<ogasawara> We are above our Beta burn down chart's trend line but below our overall trend line for the cycle.  I'll be following up with individuals who have open work items to see if we can close any out.
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-10.10-beta.html
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick#Milestone ubuntu-10.10-beta
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-10.10-beta.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick#Milestone ubuntu-10.10-beta
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (smb)
<smb> ||                   || Upd./Sec.     || Proposed      || TiP || Verified    ||
<smb> || Dapper: Kernel    || 2.6.15-55.87  ||               ||     ||             ||
<smb> || Hardy:  Kernel    || 2.6.24-28.75  || (postponed)   ||     ||             ||
<smb> || Jaunty: Kernel    || 2.6.28-19.64  ||               ||     ||             ||
<smb> || Karmic: Kernel    || 2.6.31-22.63  || 2.6.31-22.64  ||   0 ||  0/ 4       ||
<smb> || =       mvl-dove  || 2.6.31-214.30 || 2.6.31-214.31 ||   0 ||  0/ 4       ||
<smb> || =       fsl-imx51 || 2.6.31-112.28 ||               ||     ||             ||
<smb> || =       ec2       || 2.6.31-307.17 || 2.6.31-307.18 ||   0 ||  0/ 4       ||
<smb> || Lucid:  Kernel    || 2.6.32-24.41  || 2.6.32-24.42  ||   4 ||  0/ 2       ||
<smb> || =       LBM       || 2.6.32-24.17  || (pending)     ||     ||             ||
<smb> || =       mvl-dove  || 2.6.32-208.24 || (pending)     ||     ||             ||
<smb> || =       fsl-imx51 || 2.6.31-608.19 ||               ||     ||             ||
<smb> || =       ti-omap   || 2.6.33-502.10 ||               ||     ||             ||
<smb> || =       ec2       || 2.6.32-308.15 ||               ||     ||             ||
<smb> New security release was done (currently trying to figure out a Hardy
<smb> regression in Xen that was caused by that).
<smb> Uploads to proposed have been re-done for Karmic and Lucid. The uploads
<smb> for Lucid-LBM and Lucid-mvl-dove still pending acceptance.
<smb> One regression fix from Lucid proposed have been moved into the security
<smb> update as the severity was high enough.
<smb> The security update for Lucid-fsl-imx51 included all proposed patches in
<smb> order to prevent any further bricking issues with babbage2.5 boards.
<smb> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<JFo> 324 Maverick Bugs (up 72)
<JFo> 915 Lucid Bugs (up 29)
<JFo> Current regression stats (broken down by release):
<JFo> ==== regression-potential ====
<JFo>   * 158 maverick bugs (up 32)
<JFo>   * 159 lucid bugs (up 2: to be converted to regression-release)
<JFo> ==== regression-update ====
<JFo>   * 42 lucid bugs (up 7)
<JFo>   * 6 karmic bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 4 jaunty bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 0 hardy bug (down 1)
<JFo> ==== regression-release ====
<JFo>   * 156 lucid bugs (up 1)
<JFo>   * 38 karmic bugs (down 1)
<JFo>   * 17 jaunty bugs (down 1)
<JFo>   * 2 hardy bugs (no change)
<JFo> ==== regression-proposed ====
<JFo>   * 4 lucid bugs (up 1)
<JFo>   * 1 karmic bug (no change)
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<JFo> Today's focus is on bugs with patches. I'll be reviewing them to ensure that there is a patch actually attached. Per Pete, there will then be a review of the bugs to see if the patch has already been included or if it is sufficient to be included. This process will be getting further defined once I submit my rough plan to Pete for how to complete the review and inclusion of patches in the future. The next bug day will be next Tuesday. We will be f
<JFo> ocusing on bugs in the confirmed state and working to move them either into incomplete or triaged states. We will continue to have the Team Bug Day to address the Top 50 list as half days on Friday and Monday, as these seem to be working out very well. Reviewers, please take a look at your needs-review lists and help us keep the process moving. Please also take ownership of your bugs as you work them so we can get them fixed or otherwise off the l
<JFo> ist.
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Triage Status (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Triage Status (JFo)
<JFo> I'm getting pinged by the Ubuntu Studio folks who are concerned about whether the realtime kernels will be available for Maverick. I was in Oxford last week, so I don't have much on this yet. I'd be interested to hear if any of you encountered any triagers or their questions over the last week.
<JFo> realtime or preempt kernels that is
<JFo> ..
<tgardner> JFo, I'm getting bugged by it as well
<JFo> tgardner, not surprisin
<JFo> g
<JFo> scott over there was very worried
<JFo> I think his concern was more that his impression was that we didn't care about the -rt kernels
<smb> That probably needs some action on getting abogani some upload right for it. He got a bit frustrated by the process and probably by our lack of being able to endorse him,
<JFo> yeah, he has been upset about it
<JFo> and that has the studio folks in a tizzy :)
<tgardner> where is Luke in all of this? he's their core-dev
<smb> He should feel proud about that. :) Yeah, the only two people that sponsored him were Luke and Ben
<JFo> no idea, but my understanding is that there are only a few folks working on it
<JFo> the rest are only in the channel briefly
<smb> Well, I did now once, but that is not much
<JFo> right
<JFo> we can discuss that more offline
<JFo> if you guys want
<smb> Daniel kicked something off, pgraner may fwd to you as well
<smb> ..
<JFo> ok
<JFo> ..
<bjf> we've got 45 minutes left in the meeting so if there is more to discuss we can do it here
<JFo> I'm good either way, tgardner?
<tgardner> JFo, we're dealing with it offline
<JFo> k
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<bjf> I'll be out next week so if we want to have a meeting someone will have to chair it
<bjf> and then deal with all the reporting.
<bjf> So the first question is "Do we want to have next week's meeting?"
<smb> What is next week?
<smb> Oh
<smb> nm
<tgardner> ogasawara loves to chair meetings.
<ogasawara> dammit!
<JFo> LOL
<ogasawara> I don't mind chairing the meeting
<smb> I guess I can chair it too, if we want it and ogasawara doesn't
<JFo> bjf, enjoy your vacation either way :)
<bjf> JFo: that's a given :-)
<ogasawara> we might as well keep it on the schedule in case something needs discussing
<ogasawara> we can cancel it last minute if anything
<bjf> ogasawara: right, it's your call
<bjf> anyone else have anything?
<ogasawara> bjf: I've already got the runes to run the meeting, can you send me an email where all the minutes need posting to.
<ogasawara> bjf: or it is in the wiki?
<bjf> ogasawara: all documented in the wiki :-)
<bjf> ogasawara: will send you the link (it's at the top of the agenda page)
<ogasawara> bjf: got it, thanks
<bjf> that sounds like a wrap
<bjf> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:20.
<sconklin> thanks bjf
<kamal> thanks bjf
<smb> ta bjf
<JFo> thanks bjf
<kirkland> o/
<ttx> \o
<Daviey> Ãµ/
<SpamapS> |o
<hallyn> o/
<mathiaz> :p
<SpamapS> \Ã¸
<SpamapS> â¥Âºâ¤
 * mathiaz  wonders if SpamapS just discovered utf-8 support in ubuntu
<ttx> waiting for zul, he is the lucky chair
<zul> i am crap
<zul> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 13:01. The chair is zul.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<zul> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<zul> so the points were:
<zul> SpamapS to submit rubygems change proposal as Important bug in Debian and CC ubuntu-devel
<zul> is this done?
<zul> SpamapS: ^^^
<SpamapS> I had a chat with some of they ruby debian maintainers, specifically Lucas Nussbaum, and he explained that a bit more care is in order when discussing the matter with Daigo, the debian maintainer.
<zul> heh so whats next?
<SpamapS> So I've reworked the wording a bit, and will be submitting it today or tomorrow.
<zul> cool
<zul> zul to nudge forward upstart script review process
<zul> is done
<zul> jjohansen to review bug 493156
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 493156 in iotop (Ubuntu) "Please enable CONFIG_TASK_DELAY_ACCT" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/493156
<zul> jjohansen: ^^^
<zul> doesnt seem to be here
<jjohansen> right, I haven't gotten to this yet.  The next SRU kernel is a few weeks out so it hasn't been high priority
<zul> nifty thanks
<jjohansen> nah, just a slow typist
<smoser> o/
<zul> and finally zul to review papercut status of bug 582963
<zul> havent done yet
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 582963 in apache2 (Ubuntu) "SSL pass phrase dialog can't read input" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/582963
<zul> so
<zul> [TOPIC] Maverick development (jib)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Maverick development (jib)
<ttx> jib is marked "absent" so I guess I'll take care of this one
 * SpamapS prepares for the beating
<ttx> We should be at ~ 60% completion
<ttx> we are a bit behind, but with a nice trends
<ttx> especially on my "don't count sundays please" graph version
<ttx> Thursday is BetaFreeze
<mathiaz> ttx: sunday *and* saturday?
<ttx> mathiaz: yes :)
<zul> yes i call it family time :)
<SpamapS> ttx: are you publishing those graphs in parallel somewhere?
<ttx> SpamapS: no. But I could.
<ttx> so past Thursday only the RC fixes will be accepted, until Beta release
<zul> do we have a list of rc fixes alreayd?
<ttx> you should take that into account in organizing your work...
<Daviey> ttx: It would be interesting to see those graphs, can you publish them under ~ttx/?
<ttx> zul: yes, bug targeted to a maverick milestone
<ttx> that means, for example, that papercuts must be taken care of before Thursday :)
<ttx> (or dropped forever)
<Daviey> *forever* sounds so final, how about deferred to N? :)
<ttx> As usual, if yo uthink you are overloaded and can't complete the work items assigned to you in time, please tell me and/or jib
<ttx> so that we can adjust/postpone/reassign accordingly
<zul> its ok to say narwhal although awkward
<ttx> the sooner we know, the better
<zul> so i guess moving on
<zul> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<ttx> zul: action me on trying to make the burnup charts available
<zul> sorry
<mathiaz> ttx: where is the completion percentage coming from?
<zul> [ACTION]  action me on trying to make the burnup charts available  ttx
<MootBot> ACTION received:   action me on trying to make the burnup charts available  ttx
<ttx> mathiaz: the 60% ?
<mathiaz> ttx: should we publish it in the WI tracker?
<mathiaz> ttx: yes
<mathiaz> ttx: I don't see that number anywhere in the WI tracker
<mathiaz> ttx: I'd like to know where I am now, and where I'm supposed to be
<ttx> a rough eye estimate of the number of days completed / vs. total number of days in milestone
 * Daviey finds it less than fun trying to find out where the %'s are based.  The WI tracker has an emphasis on assigned blueprints, not WI on non-assigned blueprints
<SpamapS> mathiaz: its not obvious, but its from the trend line.
<Daviey> making it somewhat of a PITA to locate.
<mathiaz> SpamapS: ^^ could we make this available in the WI tracker?
 * Daviey fears he has some hidden %'s in blueprints he hasn't checked recently.
<mathiaz> SpamapS: well - the % is actually shown in the burndown chart
<SpamapS> mathiaz: pretty simple to add a Y axis on the right w/ %, and draw horizontal lines every 7 days bisecting the trend line.
<mathiaz> SpamapS: anyway - food for though
<SpamapS> s/bisecting/intersecting
<mathiaz> may be I should look again at how to read a burndown chart
<zul> ok so
<ttx> for the record, the burnup chart looks like http://people.canonical.com/~ttx/after.svg
<ttx> the branch implementing it is proposed for merging in lp-work-item-tracker
<zul> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<hggdh> hi
<hggdh> nothing new, except still testing euca
<mathiaz> hggdh: how was the QA sprint?
<hggdh> mathiaz: I did not go, did not have time
<Daviey> :(
<zul> any interesting bugs?
 * Daviey cheers hggdh for his QA'ing of euca.
<hggdh> at QA we are going thru the regression-potential bugs now; as I find server bugs, I will ping you all
<hggdh> we hope to get to the regression-release bugs soon...
<zul> any other questions?
 * kirkland highfives hggdh 
<kirkland> (as usual)
 * hggdh gets a bit more happy
 * zul hugs hggdh 
 * mathiaz hightens hggdh 
 * jdstrand heightens hggdh 
<jdstrand> wait, what?
<hggdh> :-)
<zul> ok so moving on
<zul> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<kirkland> jdstrand: can you heighten me?
<jjohansen> first up
<jjohansen> Bug #620994 - security fix breaks Xen kernels
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 620994 in linux (Ubuntu Hardy) "linux 2.6.24-28.75 breaks xen flavours (xen kernel bug: 'kernel BUG at /build/buildd/linux-2.6.24/debian/build/custom-source-xen/mm/memory.c:2704')" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/620994
<jdstrand> kirkland: hehe
<zul> jjohansen: oh thats fun
<zul> jjohansen: did you see how opensuse fixes it?
<jdstrand> iirc, they didn't apply the security update because they had some other patch in place
<jjohansen> zul: as far as I know they don't yet.  Its actively being discussed upstream
<zul> jjohansen: nifty
<jjohansen> jdstrand: is right that they have a different patch in place so the security vul didn't hit their kernels
<zul> bah...xen is fun
<jjohansen> however, they don't have a fix for this bug and the patch applied upstream
<jjohansen> yeah, and the details are ugly
<zul> xen is also the cause of male pattern baldness
<jjohansen> Bug #574910  - fixed for Lucid, also affects Maverick we have a work around that can be applied but don't have a patch yet
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 574910 in linux-ec2 (Ubuntu) "High load averages on Lucid while idling" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/574910
<jjohansen> the SRU should hit proposed kernels in about 3 weeks
<zul> anything else?
<jjohansen> Bug #606373 - I am looking at currently and hope to have fixed soon :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 606373 in cloud-init (Ubuntu) "cloud-init output does not get to console when booted with pv-grub and ramdisk" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/606373
<SpamapS> jjohansen: fixed in lucid! huzzah!
<jjohansen> SpamapS: yes, but the fix won't land in proposed for a few weeks
<zul> i guess new kernels in ec2 mean new images?
<SpamapS> jjohansen: having an SRU to point at means no longer explaining to people why lucid on EC2 "lags" or "is slow" or "is t3h suck" ;)
<smoser> it shoudl, yes, but only if they boot
<smoser> i was planning on a new image later this week, we're currently one kernel behind as it is.
<Daviey> rockin'
<jjohansen> ..
<zul> so i guess no has anything else moving on to the next topic
<zul> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
<Daviey> He have his apologies :(
<zul> which will be skipped since sommer cant make it
<zul> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Ubuntu Community Team (kim0)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Ubuntu Community Team (kim0)
<Daviey> He gave his apologies :)
<Daviey> but...
<Daviey> he sent me an email with his update:
<Daviey> I've been focusing on consolidating "cloud" communication channels
<Daviey> Currently the official Ubuntu IRC channel for anything cloud related is #ubuntu-cloud
<Daviey> As for the forums, we now have a forum for "cloud" at http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=392
<Daviey> The forums council were worried whether a cloud forum would attract enough members to justify it's own forums, but since its an egg and chicken problem, they agreed to allow us the forum till 11.04 and then evaluate how strong it's been going
<Daviey> Finally, I'm building a web portal that aims to be a resource and news aggregator for new community members
<Daviey> If you have ideas as to what should be present on that portal that helps members engage in a developer path, please drop me a line over IRC or email
<Daviey> That should be all for me
<zul> cool....
<zul> so next
<zul> [TOPIC] Papercuts status (ttx)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Papercuts status (ttx)
<ttx> yo
<ttx> Status at https://launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+milestone/maverick-beta
<ttx> We have until Thursday to fix tha last 6
<ttx> If you can't make it, unassign yourself to give someone else a chance :)
<ttx> zul: done :)
<SpamapS> bug 375371 is awaiting sponsorship
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 375371 in mysql-dfsg-5.1 (Ubuntu) "MySQL must not use /tmp" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/375371
<zul> SpamapS: has it been tested yet?
<SpamapS> zul: Right, it failed on some tests, but the previous revision failed the same tests, so I think I'm failing on how to run the tests.
<zul> SpamapS: ok ill have a look at it this afternoon
<zul> anyone else?
<SpamapS> causing me to think there should be another bug opened against mysql-testsuite that asks for documentation explaining how one is supposed to run them.
<zul> heh ask sbeattie
<zul> anyways
<zul> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<Daviey> Can we go home now? :)
<SpamapS> That was like, way too fast.
<SpamapS> we need more hyperbole
<zul> Daviey: thats what I was thinking...oh wait..
<ttx> SpamapS: twss ?
<zul> so if there is no discussion
<zul> Tuesday 2010-08-31 at 1800 UTC - #ubuntu-meeting
<zul> is when the next meeting is
<zul> thanks everyone
<mathiaz> zul: thanks!
<Daviey> o/
<zul> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:35.
 * Daviey cheers zul for running the quickest meeting in living memory.
<sbeattie> SpamapS: mysql-testsuite was failing on lucid or maverick?
<sbeattie> SpamapS: feel free to redirect to #ubuntu-server if you'd like.
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-08-25
<robbiew> o/
<ev> hiya
<doko> hi
<cjwatson> hi
<robbiew> surbhi and barry are on vacation
<robbiew> anyone seen Keybuk today?
<robbiew> mvo: joining?
<ev> nope
<mvo> hello
<robbiew> okey dokey then
<robbiew> let's start with the lightning round
<robbiew> ev?
<ev> I've been working on sorting out the KDE frontend to ubiquity, per Riddell's request.  Also fixing remaining bugs and UI issues before we hit freeze tomorrow.
<ev> (done)
<robbiew> doko>
<doko> * OOo update for maverick, some bug fixes, backport for lucid
<doko> * last round of python updates, 2.6.6 release, some 2.7 support
<doko> * updating openjdk, integrate patches in icedtea
<doko> * updates for lucid-proposed
<doko> will be at OOoCon next week
<doko> (done)
<robbiew> thnx...cjwatson?
<cjwatson> done: CD boot menu updates for Kubuntu; lots and lots of fiddly GRUB-on-EFI debugging; ported EFI boot support from Fedora to cdrkit; trying to clear up beta bugs (e.g. #600782, #602273, #604087, #604765)
<cjwatson> todo: finishing off last pieces of GRUB integration onto CDs for EFI; getting linearfb kernel driver merged upstream; more beta bugs (esp. #544139)
<robbiew> thnx
<robbiew> and last, but not least...mvo
<mvo> one vacation last week, working on software-center and the new apt this week
<mvo> (done)
<robbiew> thnx
<mvo> apt-0.8 hit maverick btw with (disabled by default) multiarch
<cjwatson> ... shame about dpkg, eh?
<mvo> :)
 * robbiew checks https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+bugs?field.milestone=27563
<robbiew> things seem fine there
<robbiew> mvo question about buy something spec
<robbiew> who owns the work items at the top
<mvo> if not otherwise labeled its probably me :/
<robbiew> add code to aptdaemon to add auth tokens to /etc/apt/auth.conf: TODO
<robbiew> add code that apt-get updates only the newly added source code line to aptdaemon Installing the app: TODO
<robbiew> release upgrade handling: ensure ppa is updated to the new release (if possible): TODO
<robbiew> release upgrade handling: ensure that purchased apps do not get removed if no longer downloadable: TODO
<robbiew> and "detect if OAuth ubuntu-sso tokens are revoked: TODO"
<mvo> I update the status, sorry that its so messy
<robbiew> heh..no worries
<mvo> the upgrade releated ones are only needed in N
<robbiew> but thanks
<mvo> the oauth stuff got moved to ubuntuone ;)
<robbiew> okay, so feel free to POSTPONE items if need be
<mvo> thanks, will do
<robbiew> heh...works for me
<robbiew> thanks
<robbiew> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-foundations-ubuntu-10.10-beta.html
<robbiew> is VERY misleading
<robbiew> as there is a bunch of arm stuff in there that's not ours
<robbiew> cjwatson: have we pretty much done all we can for foundations-m-btrfs-support?
<cjwatson> at this point, I think so; cmason replied on grub-devel today apologising for having taken so long and reiterating an intent to review
<cjwatson> I think we still need to hear from hpa
<cjwatson> (formally, that is)
<cjwatson> so by the time all that lands, I think it's unfortunately going to be too late for maverick
<robbiew> ugh...well, it's not our fault so...it is what it is
<cjwatson> surbhi's patches are the de facto ones that will be in the review queue as soon as the legalities are sorted out
<robbiew> ack
<robbiew> ev: did you catch the email thread about us taking over the wubi site?
 * robbiew changes topics
<ev> yes, was IS contacted about that?
<robbiew> nah, I haven't done that yet
<ev> okay
<ev> it was always the plan, but as ago says, we never got to it
<robbiew> wanted to wait until you got back, to make sure we can
<ev> so I'm happy to see it happen
<robbiew> ah..cook
<robbiew> cool
<robbiew> ev: so what do we need to get this done
<robbiew> hosting space and a web address?
<ev> indeed
<ev> or actually
<ev> perhaps this should go to MT and the design team?
<ev> and thus whatever they need from IS to get it done
<robbiew> hmm...yeah, I suppose they can setup the webpage
<robbiew> all we need is a place to upload to
<ev> I'd suggest talking to Iain about it
<robbiew> ack
 * robbiew will send out email on yearly objectives today...hopefully
<robbiew> they are *supposed* to be in by this friday...but oh well
<robbiew> :)
<robbiew> ev: mvo: doko: cjwatson: have you all booked UDS Natty travel?
<mvo> yep, ready for nutty
<cjwatson> ... no.  I'll get that done
<doko> mvo: for what?
<doko> have to do this too
<robbiew> mvo: heh
<SergioMeneses> hie
<robbiew> deadline is quickly approaching
<ev> robbiew: I'm in talks with Amity for it.  Trying to get there a little early (cheaper than flying direct on Saturday) so I can drive down and see nearby family.
<robbiew> ev: ok, thnx for the info
<robbiew> ev: I assume you'll be stopping by for the release sprint, right?
<ev> robbiew: given that I mostly work out of millbank, I'm sure I can make the trip to the other side of the office ;), but yeah, wouldn't miss it.
<robbiew> heh
<robbiew> smartass
<robbiew> thnx
<ev> haha
<robbiew> and last but not least, cjwatson can you drive the beta release next week?
<robbiew> or do I need to pull in pitti and/or slangasek to assist
<cjwatson> I'll be around, so yes I should be able to
<cjwatson> will skat be around as well?
<robbiew> I think it's skaet now
<robbiew> and yes...most definitely
<robbiew> I think "skat" was just to close to "dung"
<robbiew> lol
<ev> heh
<robbiew> oh yeah...and I'm narrowing done the list of candidates
<robbiew> got 2 so far, waiting on feedback from ev and cjwatson on the last 2 in the pipeline...depending on the feedback, I may speak to them...otherwise, I'll choose from the 2 I have
 * robbiew wants this decided asap
<robbiew> that's it for me?
<robbiew> anything else from anyone else?
<robbiew> guess not
<robbiew> thnx mvo, cjwatson, ev, and doko
<mvo> thanks!
<ev> thanks!
<doko> thx
<mvo> back to rushing in the remaining stuff before beta-freeze
<robbiew> heh
<marjo> QA Team Meeting 1700 UTC in #ubuntu-quality
<nigelb> @now
<ubottu> Current time in Etc/UTC: August 25 2010, 16:48:59
<highvoltage> hi! Anyone around for Edubuntu meeting?
<alkisg> Hi all
<highvoltage> hey alkisg
<highvoltage> I'm low on energy today so I won't blabber as much as usual :)
<highvoltage> stgraber and I worked on a new Edubuntu website
<highvoltage> it's not complete yet, but it's up already and I believe it's an improvement on the old site already: http://edubuntu.org/
<alkisg> Is that the drupal theme you bought?
<highvoltage> I put quite some effort in the screenshots page so far, I think it's quite nice
<highvoltage> alkisg: yep, I simplified it a bit and stgraber fixed a few bugs, so it's not quite like the original anymore
<alkisg> Looks very elegant
<alkisg> Is it easy to make it liquid?
<highvoltage> yes I hope that it will be elegant with a strong hint of fun when it's done
<highvoltage> I don't know, I'll look into it, liquid would be nice
<alkisg> ...but probably the ones that have e.g. 1920x1080 will be using some scaling in firefox already, so no big deal I imagine...
<highvoltage> yesterday I did a search on youtube for edubuntu... found a bunch of really interesting edubuntu videos. I created an edubuntu youtube channel and added most of them as favourites to the channel
<highvoltage> alkisg: and at that resolution you'd probably not run your browser full-screen anyway
<alkisg> Heh, I don't think it's http://www.youtube.com/edubuntu, right? :D
<highvoltage> http://www.youtube.com/user/edubuntuproject
<highvoltage> yeah, edubuntu was already taken :-/
<highvoltage> (by somethign not at all edubuntu related)
<alkisg> Well if he's using edubuntu, I imagine he'd be glad to give it to the project..
<highvoltage> I guess it couldn't hurt trying :)
<highvoltage> on the technical side of things, our daily build currently doesn't install (ubiquity is crashing) and a few times I tried to boot the disc it wouldn't boot, but I think that's not restricted to us atm
<highvoltage> that's pretty much all from my side :)
<alkisg> How's the live ltsp stuff going?
<highvoltage> alkisg: I'm going to spend some time on that over the next few days and try to get it at least in a working state. at the moment it's pretty much useless, and I won't be extremeley happy if we had to revert to how we did it in Lucid
<alkisg> highvoltage: if you need any help / debugging etc, ping me
<highvoltage> alkisg: thanks! I'm sure I'll need you for that :)
<UndiFineD> highvoltage, there OOo screenshots missing
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-08-26
<dholbach> good morning
<godbyk> morning.
<JanCBorchardt> hello everyone
<wers> hello :)
<godbyk> Hey, JanCBorchardt.
<godbyk> I'm actually conscious for once.
<JanCBorchardt> Iâm glad I looked at the clock or I would have missed the meeting ;)
<godbyk> Hey, mpt. Quick question before the meeting starts..
<godbyk> What's the canonical spelling: MeMenu, Me Menu, Me menu, ...?
<mpt> godbyk, there is none. :-)
<godbyk> mpt: Hmm.. well that interferes with my need to be nit-picky and anal when I'm editing the Ubuntu manual. :)
<mpt> Hi everyone
<mpt> indicator-datetime tells me that it's Wednesday
<mpt> but my watch assures me that it's Thursday
<JanCBorchardt> godbyk, seems to be spelled Me Menu most of the time
<godbyk> JanCBorchardt: I'm not picky about which spelling, I just need to settle on one for consistency's sake.
<thorwil> godbyk: nit-picky and anal? good i don't have to create icons for that :)
<JanCBorchardt> godbyk, thatâs why I thought it might be best to use whatâs used most :)
<thorwil> mpt: i have to side with your watch
<godbyk> thorwil: I'll have you create those for the cover of my autobiography someday. ;-)
<wers> what do we have for today?
<mpt> I'm sorry I don't have anything, it's been a mad rush for Maverick UI freeze today
<wers> I'd like to discuss visual consistency and Tango compliance. I like the direction of Ambience-maverick-beta. it now feels Tango
<mpt> interesting
<wers> maybe, the next step is to make the icons more Tango-compliant
<wers> they feel cartooney and alienated in the desktop
<wers> you can tell which icons are Ubuntu-specific and not
<mpt> The vibe I get from my graphic designer colleagues is that Tango is not a style worth complying with
 * thorwil thinks of those would use "feels tango" as an insult
<mpt> Personally I agree that some of the new Humanity icons look cartoony, but less so than Tango does.
<wers> well, not anymore. "Mango" or the next generation of Tango feels much more fit today
<mpt> I have not seen Mango
<wers> either way, there has to be visual consistency in the platform
<thorwil> wers: if you mention Tango, most people will recall sets that may be several years old
<wers> http://jimmac.musichall.cz/i.php?i=Tango-NG
<JanCBorchardt> wers, do you have any screenshots? I have only seen the home folder house
<JanCBorchardt> ah, there was an article somewhere right?
<wers> JanCBorchardt, http://jimmac.musichall.cz/i.php?i=Tango-NG
<JanCBorchardt> wers, I meant the humanity icons, found them at http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/08/humanity-icons-get-updated.html
<wers> nice! thanks for pointing that out
<mpt> The biggest sizes look great
<thorwil> not what you will see most of the time
<wers> doesn't mean the small ones don't look great as well
<wers> It would be nice to have a consistent interface. that would make the desktop experience much smoother
<thorwil> be careful with calls for consistency. i hope to never see something like the all orange emblems ubuntu had ... ;)
<wers> if you can suggest something more worth following than Tango and Mango, it would be great if it's going to be a sustainable standard that won't make the desktop feel fragmented
<thorwil> +again
<wers> we don't need that sort of consistency
<wers> as long as different themes follow common standards, it would be ok
<wers> that would also make icons reusable in different themes
<wers> I hope, we can define our next steps to resolve this
<thorwil> i vaguely recall talk about yet another new icon theme for ubuntu, with a call to the community for ideas/mockups
<wers> thorwil, what's goal for that?
<vish> oh a humanity highlight!
<vish> hey folks,
<wers> hi vish
<thorwil> wers: not sure. i don't find the source anymore, as it was mentioned on some blog post (by a member of the design team, though, afair)
 * vish reads backlog..
<JanCBorchardt> hey vish
<Status0> hi there !
<Status0> i am new. and i wonder how to be a member of ubuntu ?
<vish> wers: whats the complaint about icons?  why do you think tango is suited for a toolbar? what is the justification for a toolbar icon to have a shadow?  does the toolbar have depth? ;)
<Status0> the site is little confusing me...
<Status0> i made a wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/status0
<vish> !membership | Status0
<ubottu> Status0: Want to become an Ubuntu member? Look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
<vish> wers: Tango has its benefits, hence Humanity does use the tango guidelines,  but it is not a perfect guideline
<wers> vish, haven't mentioned anything about toolbars. I'm just suggesting visual consistency in the Ubuntu desktop
<vish> wers: could you be more specific?
<Status0> ubottu: i been there  but i didn't understand where i give the application or how i get into a meeting list of candidates like on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA
<ubottu> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<wers> vish, icons that don't exist in Humanity icon theme fall back to themes that comply more to Tango. hence, the inconsistency
<wers> unless Humanity's standards will be as widely followed as Tango
<vish> wers: Humanity does not have icons! blasphemy! where did we miss it? ;p
<wers> and Mango, eventually
<vish> wers: Humanity covers more icons than any other icon set ;)
<vish> .. even more than gnome
<vish> wers: as i mention it earlier , Humanity does follow Tango guidelines [mostly]
<vish> wers: the most common complaint might be that the search icon is not tango.. other than that almost everything is tango
<thorwil> this leads back to the request of being more specific, then
<wers> vish, for some reason, the folder icons feel different
<wers> maybe, it's just me though
<vish> wers: Folders are tango too :)
<wers> I think, I got this idea also largely because of the search icon. I see it very often because of GNOME Do
<vish> wers: yeah , the search is not tango, but doing it tango looked crappy and we liked the current one better ;p
<vish> there is a bug about that too ;)
<wers> vish, fair enough
<wers> btw, is there a plan to follow Mango's directions?
<vish> wers: currently there is not much interest in the team to actually work on Humanity, and we've been busy with other stuff too, hence there are less updates this cycle, also since there is a call for new icon set ideas , we probably wont be making any more changes but rather sit on it for a while ;p
<Status0> hi, is anybody online ?
<wers> vish, ooh. what's the goal of the call for new icon set ideas?
<vish> Status0: try asking in #ubuntu-community-team  , this is a meeting channel
<Status0> oh sorry, thanks
<vish> wers: Otto mentioned he will make them public soon :)
<wers> vish, in fairness, my view of Humanity icon theme is outdated. It's been a while since the last time I used this because of my consistency sentiment
<JanCBorchardt> I have another topic: Yesterday I talked with one of the OpenUsability founders about future plans and directions for the project. What are the plans from Canonicalâs side, especially with UX advocates being related.
<vish> wers: yeah agreed, it is outdated since it follows Tango ;)
<JanCBorchardt> that should have been a question mark ;)
<wers> JanCBorchardt, interesting. mpt?
<vish> wers: but your consistency sentiment is a misunderstanding about what Tango means ;)
<mpt> wers, Otto is not here right now. I suspect that if I asked him, he *might* have heard of Tango, but probably not Mango.
<mpt> oh, sorry, you had a different question. :-)
<mpt> About OpenUsability, working with them is something that has been on Canonical Design's "that would be great if we had time for it" list
<mpt> UX advocates seems like a natural fit for them.
<JanCBorchardt> mpt, time is a problem for them as well. The Season of Usability was postponed to January. Iâm starting to work with him next week and will try to get more going there.
<mpt> ok
<eguin> alguien que me ayude?
<eguin> jajaj
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-08-27
<marjo> hi skaet
<skaet> hi marjo  :)
<jdstrand> o/
<seb128> hi
<ScottK> \o
<ttx> o/
<skaet> hi all,   feels about time to start.   anyone else we're waiting for?
<cjwatson> hi
 * ScottK votes start on time and let people catch up as needed.
 * skaet thinks that sounds good.
<skaet> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is skaet.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<skaet> [TOPIC] 10.10
<MootBot> New Topic:  10.10
<skaet> any updates from dyfet on the open actions?
<skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2010-08-27
<ScottK> skaet: Got patches from NCommander and Riddell, so it's OBE.
<ScottK> (the KDE one)
<skaet> ScottK,  thanks.   will stop carrying it forward then.
<ScottK> In fact KDE 4.5 is now fully built on armel for the first time.
<ttx> ScottK: \o/
<skaet> :)
<skaet> will it be going out with 10.10 beta?
<ScottK> We should have images, but Kubuntu on armel isn't a primary target for that architecture.
<skaet> ScottK,  ok.
<skaet> [TOPIC] QA team report
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA team report
<marjo> Hardware testing
<marjo> http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<marjo> Laptops:
<marjo>      Passed:   41 (85%)    Failed:    1 ( 2%)    Untested:  6 (13%)
<marjo>  Servers:
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<marjo>      Passed:   58 (85%)    Failed:    0 ( 0%)    Untested: 10 (15%)
<marjo>  Netbooks:
<marjo>      Passed:   12 (75%)    Failed:    0 ( 0%)    Untested:  4 (25%)
<marjo>  Desktops:
<marjo>      Passed:   11 (79%)    Failed:    0 ( 0%)    Untested:  3 (21%)
<marjo> Boot Performance
<marjo> http://people.canonical.com/~ameetp/BootChart.html
<marjo> Per robbiew's request, the report now separates UNE and Desktop.
<marjo> Kbuntu will be added next.
<marjo> Boot Performance Week of 2010-08-23 to 2010-08-27
<marjo> -------------------------------------------------
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~ameetp/BootChart.html
<marjo> Number of system regressions on Ubuntu Desktop: 0
<marjo> Number of system regressions on Ubuntu Netbook Edition: 0
<marjo> ScottK:  Kbuntu will be added next.
<ScottK> Great.
<marjo> # Milestoned Features
<marjo> * qa-maverick-mago-daily - postponed to end of release, due to higher priority tasks
<marjo> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/qa-maverick-mago-daily
<marjo> skaet: that's all from QA team
<skaet> marjo,  thanks!
<skaet> any particular concerns as we head into beta next week?
<marjo> skaet: none at this time; sent out reminders for ISO testing
<skaet> cool.  thanks.   any other questions for QA?
<skaet> [TOPIC] security team
<MootBot> New Topic:  security team
<jdstrand> hi
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<jdstrand> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-security.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-security.html
<jdstrand> We currently have no milestoned bugs.
<jdstrand> We are waiting for feedback on the openssl and related packages in -proposed for security-m-tls-renegotiation-updates, our last remaining essential blueprint.
<jdstrand> Work on arm-m-missing-security-features is ongoing.
<jdstrand> Hope to release ufw 0.30 and get it into maverick for beta. We have a pre-release of 0.30 in maverick now, and this would be a pure bugfix upload-- fixes a couple packaging issues as well as several IPv6 bugs. See SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick for details.
<jdstrand> that may have to wait til after beta
<jdstrand> Getting upstream apparmor userspace 2.5.1 together is ongoing, which is something that we will want in Maverick, but not beta. It has many fixes for the userspace tools to work with our maverick (and upstream) kernel
 * skaet makes a note to keep an eye open for ufw 0.30
<jdstrand> that's pretty much it from me
<skaet> nice.
<skaet> any questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC] kernel team
<MootBot> New Topic:  kernel team
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-10.10-beta.html
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-10.10-beta.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<ogasawara> All our specs/blueprints for Beta are complete.
<skaet> sweet.
<ogasawara> On the bugs noted in the agenda, status is as follows:
<ogasawara> Bug 605488 - After speaking with ogra and GrueMaster, we're closing this bug for now as no one is able to reproduce the issue any more.  Should this re-appear the bug will be re-opened.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 605488 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu Maverick) "BUG: scheduling while atomic: mmcqd/46/0x00000002" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/605488
<ogasawara> Bug 605739 - Believed to be resolved in the latest linux-ti-omap4-2.6.34-903.7 kernel.  Still waiting for verification before closing.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 605739 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu Maverick) "BUG: Bad page state in process swapper pfn:94d23" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/605739
<ogasawara> Bug 624915 - debian-installer issue which cjwatson has already resolved.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 624915 in debian-installer (Ubuntu Maverick) "maverick kvm guests not seeing virtio disks" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/624915
<ogasawara> Bug 291760 - Numerous comments to the bug indicate this is not a kernel issue nor is there any confirmation against a Maverick kernel.  I've subsequently closed this bug against the kernel and posted a comment.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 291760 in NetworkManager "network-manager roams to (none) ((none)) - background scanning" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/291760
<ogasawara> Bug 615400 - Believed to be resolved with the current kernel.  Waiting for verification before closing.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 615400 in flash-kernel (Ubuntu Maverick) "package initramfs-tools 0.97.2ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: ErrorMessage: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/615400
<ogasawara> Bug 613855 - Patches applied and kernel uploaded (linux-2.6.35-19.26).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 613855 in linux (Ubuntu Maverick) "omap3 beagle XM MMC card always comes up readonly" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/613855
<ogasawara> As a general status, we've rebased to the latest 2.6.35.3 upstream stable kernel which was basically a set of regression fixes from 2.6.35.2.  We also uploaded a kernel yesterday with fixes for 613855.  We are above the trend line for our Beta release burndown chart but below the trend line overall.  The remaining Beta release work items are not release critical.
<ogasawara> Questions?
<skaet> thanks ogasawara. :)
<skaet> [TOPIC] Foundations team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations team
<cjwatson> hi
<cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick#RC%20Milestoned%20bugs
<cjwatson> hm
<cjwatson> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick#RC%20Milestoned%20bugs
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick#RC%20Milestoned%20bugs
<cjwatson> skipping the feature section there this week, as we should mostly be focusing on bugs now
<cjwatson> two bugs I want to call out there
<cjwatson> bug 613008: Evan says he can work on this on Tuesday, but will that be too late for beta?  if so, I can try to figure something out this afternoon
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 613008 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Maverick) "failed to install oem-config from CD" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/613008
<skaet> robbiew,  thoughts?
<cjwatson> bug 441941: this has been around since we switched to grub2 in 10.04.  The limited actual data (as opposed to VERY large number of comments) in the bug suggests that it may be simply because grub2's core.img is somewhat bigger than grub legacy's stage1.5, in which case there is a very limited amount that we can actually do about this.  I acknowledge it's a serious issue for those affected, but wonder how much use it is ...
<cjwatson> ... to treat it as RC
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 441941 in grub2 (Ubuntu Maverick) "grub fails after running Windows" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/441941
<cjwatson> also, I downgraded bug 459639 to Medium.  Anyone affected by this should comment
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 459639 in upstart (Ubuntu Maverick) "X server starts randomly in failsafe when starting from cold boot" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/459639
<robbiew> skaet: cjwatson: seems 613008 has a workaround
<cjwatson> yes, be online
<robbiew> so if we can't get it into Beta
<robbiew> we should at least release note it...again :/
<skaet> ok
<skaet> any questions for colin?
<skaet> thanks colin.
<skaet> s/colin/cjwatson/  sigh....
<skaet> [TOPIC] server team
<MootBot> New Topic:  server team
<ttx> hi!
<ttx> Server team status is up to date at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/MaverickReleaseStatus
<skaet> hi!
<ttx> About Maverick bugs, I spent some time recently reviewing all High and a few Medium -server bugs to fill the bucket again. Here you go:
<ttx> Beta-milestoned bugs:
<ttx> Bug 619843 - euca-get-console-output returns one single line (Daviey): should be in next eucalyptus upload
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 619843 in Eucalyptus "euca-get-console-output returns one single line" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/619843
<ttx> Bug 599342 - Temporary failure in name resolution (hallyn): waiting for input from OP, potentially deferred
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 599342 in libvirt (Ubuntu Maverick) "Temporary failure in name resolution" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/599342
<ttx> Bug 613535 - cloud-debug.log reports errno=2 trying to execute 'bttrack' (Daviey): should be in next eucalyptus upload
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 613535 in eucalyptus (Ubuntu Maverick) "cloud-debug.log reports errno=2 trying to execute 'bttrack'" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/613535
<ttx> Bug 617053 - on upgrade from 1.6.2, euca_upgrade should preserve DISABLE_ISCSI="Y" (Daviey): needs verification, might be already fixed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 617053 in eucalyptus (Ubuntu Maverick) "on upgrade from 1.6.2, euca_upgrade should preserve DISABLE_ISCSI="Y"" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/617053
<ttx> High, release targeted bugs:
<ttx> Bug 574665 - kvm + virtio disk corrupts >1TB large volumes (hallyn): more investigation required
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 574665 in qemu-kvm (Ubuntu Maverick) "kvm + virtio disk corrupts large volumes (>1TB)." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/574665
<ttx> Bug 564355 - run-instance request in same security group causes eucalyptus to remove network (hggdh): needs verification
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 564355 in eucalyptus (Ubuntu Maverick) "Second euca-run-instance request in same security group causes eucalyptus to remove network assoicated with security group" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/564355
<ttx> Bug 584048 - kvm images losing connectivity w/bridged network (hallyn): nearing a solution
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 584048 in qemu-kvm (Ubuntu Maverick) "kvm images losing connectivity w/bridged network" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/584048
<ttx> Bug 620441 - MySQL upstart stop job does not cleanly shutdown mysql (SpamapS): more investigation needed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 620441 in mysql-dfsg-5.1 (Ubuntu Maverick) "MySQL upstart stop job does not cleanly shutdown mysql" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/620441
<ttx> Bug 606715 - Logfile defintions wrong after changes to logfile rotation in Ubuntu Lucid (ttx): triaged
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 606715 in logwatch (Ubuntu Maverick) "Logfile defintions wrong after changes to logfile rotation in Ubuntu Lucid" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/606715
<ttx> Bug 619712 - keepalived vrrp race condition (RoakSoaX): patch needs verification
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 619712 in keepalived (Ubuntu Maverick) "keepalived vrrp race condition and fix (versions 1.1.17 and 1.2.0 but perhaps all?)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/619712
<ttx> Then there is a list that I will spare you, maverick-targeted bugs that are more targets of opportunity for the next weeks
<ttx> (medium or below)
<skaet> :)
<ttx> On the specs side...
<ttx> Hm, wait
<ttx> Maverick bugs affecting server, in other teams:
<ttx> Bug 563916 - [details.so] No prompt for [S]kip or [M]anual recovery on server boot
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 563916 in plymouth (Ubuntu Maverick) "[details.so] No prompt for [S]kip or [M]anual recovery on server boot" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/563916
<ttx> This one is targeted to 10.04.2 as well
<ttx> would be nice to fix in Maverick, but I suspect it's getting late
<skaet> ttx,  what's the outlook for the fix?
<ttx> it's in the hands of the Foundations team, I think Colin spent one of his remaining cycle on it
<ttx> cjwatson: ^
 * ttx will talk specs in the mean time.
<ttx> Progress for the beta subcycle is at http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-server-ubuntu-10.10-beta.html
<ttx> Beta-milestoned specs status:
<ttx> server-maverick-upstart-conversion (0%): not completed in time for BetaFreeze. Underlying bug being fixed, those can be postponed to Natty.
<ttx> server-maverick-uec-testing (40%): Most work items for beta testing week, should be completed in time
<ttx> server-maverick-daily-vcs (50%): One work item left, on track (can be completed during freeze)
<ttx> server-maverick-workitemtracker (64%): On track (can be completed during freeze)
<ttx> server-maverick-community (67%): One work item left (assigned to jcastro)
<ttx> server-maverick-papercuts (67%): One retrospective work item left, on track (can be completed during freeze)
<ttx> server-maverick-uds-cloud-loadbalancing (75%): One work item left, on track (can be completed during freeze)
<ttx> server-maverick-puppet-bootstrap (83%): One work item left, on track (can be completed during freeze)
<cjwatson> skaet: current status is that it's awaiting feedback from the patch submitter on a question from upstream
<ttx> server-maverick-cloud-images-sans-cloud (88%): One optional work item left, on track (can be completed during freeze)
<ttx> The others are complete.
<cjwatson> I'll move it forward if I have to, but was hoping to let the patch submitter do that since that's more economical of our resources
<skaet> cjwatson,  thanks.
<ttx> Other specs status:
<ttx> server-maverick-hadoop-pig (0%): 3 work items (2 in progress), can all be completed during freeze
<ttx> server-maverick-isotesting (0%): On track (work starts next week!)
<ttx> server-maverick-uec-eucalyptus-next (58%): Will require another eucalyptus upload (BetaFreezeException)
<ttx> skaet: ^
<ttx> server-maverick-dailytriage (63%): On track (just a tracking spec)
<ttx> server-maverick-uds-seed-review (93%): One work item left, on track (can be completed during freeze)
<skaet> ttx,  ack.  will talk to robbiew
<ttx> skaet: let's say that freezeexceptions for eucalyptus have been quite common in the past :)
<ttx> Looking at it from a spillover/postponed perspective:
<ttx> The server-maverick-qa-workflow spec was postponed due to work on eucalyptus blocking the QA resource
<ttx> Some work items were postponed in server-maverick-community, server-maverick-uec-liveusb and server-maverick-hypervisor
<skaet> heh.   Thanks for the context.  ;)
<ttx> Some work items in server-maverick-uds-seed-review were remilestoned to maverick release
<ttx> All work items in server-maverick-uec-liveusb were remilestoned to maverick release
<ttx> That's all, thanks for your patience.
<ttx> Questions ?
<skaet> will upstart-conversion make it for release?
<ScottK> upstart-conversion is a process, not a destination I feel.
<ttx> no, I think it should be postponed to natty. It's work in progress anyway
<ttx> yes.
<skaet> cool.
<ttx> so those specific scripts were nominated because...
<ttx> there was some issue making lo unavailable in time for some legacy init scripts to behave properly
<ttx> that issue was fixed, so it's "less pressing"
<skaet> thanks.  makes sense.
<ttx> and at that point, adding them is more a nuisance
<ttx> given how close we are to release, and how critical an upstart script can be
<ttx> I'm just waiting for jiboumans to be back to confirm the punting.
<skaet> thanks ttx.  :)
 * ttx bows.
<skaet> lol
<skaet> [TOPIC] Desktop team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop team
<seb128> hi
<seb128> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<seb128> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team.html
<seb128> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team-ubuntu-10.10-beta.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team-ubuntu-10.10-beta.html
<seb128> Work items summary:
<seb128> We are on track for beta and maverick
<seb128> Week work summary:
<seb128>  * quite some bug fixing done
<seb128>  * unity and dx weekly updates went it
<seb128>  * chrisccoulson spent time on getting the "sending crashes directly to upstream" working and on getting the firefox4 builds going
<seb128>  * xorg got some updates still
<seb128>  * kenvandine sorted with twitter how we can get gwibber to work with the coming authentification changes
<seb128>  * lot of ui tweaking rush and updates just before the ui freeze start
<seb128>  
<seb128> Questions for beta:
<seb128>  * the GNOME 2.32 beta tarballs are due on monday, can we get those uploaded for beta or not?
<seb128>  * firefox 3.6.9 is ready for upload with the fix for sending crashes directly to upstream, not langpacks change required, can we upload today or should that go after beta?
<seb128>  * banshee by default on UNE is really late, the version using udev will have it first tarball next week and it has new depends (one being in universe, one not packaged yet), is there a way we can still do that change for maverick after beta (it's UNE only)?
<seb128>  
<seb128> (I will give the remaining summary and bugs once those are sorted)
<skaet> robbiew,  cjwatson,   thoughts?
<seb128> I guess for GNOME we can do the "just upload and people will review and decide"
<skaet> heh,  true...
<seb128> if those go after beta that's ok
<robbiew> the firefox upload should go in pre-beta
<robbiew> I think
<seb128> I would like to get firefox 3.6.9 in though, that would give us testing and make the crash reports work with upstream which is a real win
<robbiew> +1
<seb128> ok, great
<seb128> skaet, no objection?
<skaet> +1
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> I guess we can sort the banshee one next week when didrocks (our UNE maintainer) is back
 * skaet thinks more testing with beta the better.....  
<seb128> it's not really blocking beta
<seb128> I just wanted to mention it
<robbiew> seb128: agree on waiting on banshee decision
<seb128> ok
<seb128> should I continue with the remaining bits?
<skaet> [ACTION] discuss with didrocks banshee on UNE
<MootBot> ACTION received:  discuss with didrocks banshee on UNE
<skaet> seb128, yes please.
<seb128> one comment
<seb128> Worth noting that software-center still use a ppa rather than extras.ubuntu.com which is blocked on being set up by I.S, changing the archive to use should not be an issue but might be worth knowing
<seb128>  
<seb128> not sure if that's an issue or not or if foundation, mvo are tracking that
<seb128> I though I would mention it since we have remaining beta work items for those
<seb128>  
<seb128> other bugs from the agenda:
<seb128> * bug 16492: changed to low, that's basically a wishlist and not a maverick milestoned issue (was changed last week, why is it still listed? do you disagree with the change?)
<seb128> * bug 329898: bug assigned to our printing maintainer and under investigation, could be due to ibus
<seb128> * bug 522538: bug assigned to the gwibber maintainer for investigation
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 16492 in gtk+2.0 (Ubuntu Maverick) "Mouse pointer should disappear when keyboard is in use and mouse isn't" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/16492
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 329898 in hplip (Ubuntu Maverick) "The HP 1018 printer not work out of the box if used non-US locale" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/329898
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 522538 in desktopcouch "gwibber-service crashed with error in connect()" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/522538
<seb128> * bug 575160: universe bug assigned to a community member, is there any reason it's on the desktop team list?
<seb128> * bug 602899: bug assigned to our xorg maintainer who thinks it might be fixed in the current version, needs confirmation from the submitter
<seb128> * bug 603507: not really a blocker since it's not an issue for unity out of the debug mode and there is a workaround, I've set it to low
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 575160 in seamonkey (Ubuntu Maverick) "seamonkey 2.0 crashes with 'RenderBadPicture' diagnostics" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/575160
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 602899 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu Maverick) "[gm45] Xserver crash" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/602899
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 603507 in clutter-gtk-0.10 (Ubuntu Maverick) "[intel] clutter views not updated correctly with the new clutter " [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/603507
<seb128> * bug 610600: the issue is being investigated and discussed with upstream, it's better in maverick but we don't really have the competence in the team to work on it directly
<seb128> * bug 615549: needs input from Keybuk or somebody who knows about upstart
<seb128> * bug 616023: nvidia binary driver issues, jockey workaround it for now and we will get the update case fixed for maverick as well
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 610600 in gstreamer0.10 (Ubuntu Maverick) "Serious video performance regression in cheese (2.28.1->2.30.1)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/610600
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 615549 in gdm (Ubuntu Maverick) "Dell Studio XPS 13 no video" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/615549
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 616023 in nvidia-graphics-drivers (Ubuntu Maverick) "nVidia card : X won't start since 1.9 update, no screens found" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/616023
<seb128> * bug 621433: is being worked by the ubuntuone team
<seb128> * bug 623509: the fix is ready to uploaded with firefox 3.6.9, cf question before
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 621433 in ubuntuone-client (Ubuntu Maverick) "[regression] nautilus plugin does not load published file list" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/621433
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 623509 in firefox (Ubuntu Maverick) "Firefox is creating empty crash reports due to ptrace restrictions" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/623509
<seb128> bug fixed on the week list: bug #623655
<seb128> bugs from the previous week fixed this week: #595555 #606728 #616515 #618945 #619858
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 623655 in libubuntuone (Ubuntu Maverick) "Error prevents enabling store plugin" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/623655
<seb128>  
<seb128> that's it
<seb128> I'm open to questions or comments ;-)
<skaet> [ACTION] skaet follow up onsoftware-center using ppa rather than extras.ubuntu.com
<MootBot> ACTION received:  skaet follow up onsoftware-center using ppa rather than extras.ubuntu.com
<cjwatson> sorry, was writing an extremely long follow-up to 441941 ...
<seb128> not sure what format you prefer for the bugs listed on the agenda
<cjwatson> Monday might be OK, I imagine Tuesday's ISOs will be the candidates we work on?
<seb128> the IRC dump doesn't seem really digest
<seb128> we have a summary on our weekly wiki summary
<davidbarth> seb128: you put the bot on his knees
<seb128> davidbarth, blame whoever put the agenda list and assign all those bugs to us :p
<skaet> seb128,  heh...  can you look at 522538 as well
<seb128> bug #522538
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 522538 in desktopcouch "gwibber-service crashed with error in connect()" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/522538
<seb128> skaet, it was the third one in my copied list
<seb128> but I didn't put it on the wiki yet because it has been added during the day
<seb128> will do that now
<skaet> seb128 - ack missed it in the scan.... :(
<seb128> let me know if another format would work better
<seb128> I'm not sure triggering the bot for having the url and bug title is useful or noise
<skaet> seb128,  thanks.    :)    will keep with current format for now
<seb128> skaet, ok
 * skaet still figuring things out...
<seb128> you're welcome
<skaet> [TOPIC] kubuntu
<MootBot> New Topic:  kubuntu
<ScottK> Riddell is offline today, so I'll cover Kubuntu.
<skaet> thanks
<ScottK> [LINK] http://tinyurl.com/33p7vu3 - Not a lot in the way of milestoned bugs:
<ScottK> [LINK] https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo - Spec status is (newly updated). We may have some FFe yet if some tasks get finished, but it won't be anything potentially disruptive.
<ScottK> Ubiquity KDE overaul landed yesterday.  Don't have any test reports yet.
<ScottK> After beta is out we'll be updating KDE to 4.5.1 and qt4-x11 to 4.7.0 rc1 (we have the beta now).
<ScottK> Build issues on armel are finally resolved, so we should have images for beta.
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://tinyurl.com/33p7vu3 - Not a lot in the way of milestoned bugs:
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo - Spec status is (newly updated). We may have some FFe yet if some tasks get finished, but it won't be anything potentially disruptive.
<ScottK> First test images for kubuntu-mobile tech preview (Universe) rolled yesterday, should have them in production soon.
<ScottK> Questions?
<ScottK> The biggest uncertainy for beta is the installer.
<skaet> ScottK  images for mobile looked a bit big for ISO.   who's going to do pruning?
<ScottK> skaet: I'm planning on bumping the size limit.  These aren't really aimed at CD, but install via USB, so size isn't a concern.
<ScottK> (we did this for Kubuntu Netbook when it was a separate image)
<skaet> ScottK,  cool.  Thanks for explanation.  :)
<ScottK> That said, it could stand some pruning as it has too much standard desktop stuff that's not needed.
<skaet> heh
<skaet> ScottK,  thanks!
<skaet> [TOPIC] Desktop experience
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop experience
<skaet> hmm... anyone around, or is this still a gap?
<ScottK> Should be davidbarth
<iainfarrell> dbarth and i are here
<davidbarth> oops
<davidbarth> yes
<ogra> talk to us then, dont be shy :)
<skaet> cool.   updates?
<davidbarth> sure
<davidbarth> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/MaverickReleaseStatus
<davidbarth> contains the summary
<davidbarth> in summary, we have 1 small missing for appmenu
<davidbarth> a series of UIF exceptions for indicators
<davidbarth> 1 UIF exception for unity also (couldn't get all of the artwork on time)
<davidbarth> and (yet) another exception request for the MT integration in unity
<davidbarth> i don't want to sound like we haven't worked during the past weeks though
<skaet> davidbarth,  any thoughts on bug #606052?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 606052 in indicator-application (Ubuntu) "indicator-application-service crashed with SIGSEGV in g_closure_invoke()" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/606052
<davidbarth> in particular, more than 40 bugs / tasks were closed for unity in the last 4 days (https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+milestone/2010-08-26)
 * skaet likes hearing about bugs being closed.   :D
<davidbarth> none sorry, was not on my radar
<davidbarth> but will now
<skaet> davidbarth,  thanks!
<ScottK> davidbarth: Is the Ubuntu font your issue or Ux?
<davidbarth> i've browsed other critical bugs today, but can you send me the release meeting invite to be able to give you a more accurate report on bugs next week?
<davidbarth> font is ux
 * ScottK waits.
<davidbarth> iainfarrell is present today for design
<iainfarrell> We raised the issue of the font with Mark on the DX call this week
<skaet> [ACTION] skaet to review release meeting invite list and make sure davidbarth is on it.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  skaet to review release meeting invite list and make sure davidbarth is on it.
<iainfarrell> he's not satisfied that we're ready to add this to the distro yet
<davidbarth> skaet: thanks ;)
<davidbarth> questoins for DX?
<iainfarrell> We are attetmpting to answer his concerns
<iainfarrell> I can't provide a deadline unfortunately
<iainfarrell> Ivanka has been meeting and reviewing with him
<davidbarth> ie, i've discussed that status with seb128 this mornng to plan for the reviews necessary for landing fixes
<ScottK> iainfarrell: So it's still a potential FFe request for Maverick then.
<iainfarrell> ScottK: correct
<iainfarrell> worse is that I was expecting an update on conversations but their internet connection has died
<iainfarrell> so I won't get an update now until Tuesday at the earliest
<iainfarrell> Should I add this detail as a comment to the font bug?
 * ScottK would think so.
<iainfarrell> ScottK will do
<skaet> ianfarrell, davidbarth,   thanks!
<skaet> [TOPIC] user experience
<MootBot> New Topic:  user experience
 * skaet looks around... 
<davidbarth> iainfarrell: that's you again dude ;)
<davidbarth> skaet: iainfarrell didn't get the invitation email either i guess
<davidbarth> but looking at the blueprints that were listed in a previous email
<skaet> [ACTION] skaet to make sure iainfarrel is on the invite too...
<MootBot> ACTION received:  skaet to make sure iainfarrel is on the invite too...
<iainfarrell> Thanks skaet
<davidbarth> the generative wallpaper one had to be postponed unfotrunately (DX could allocate ressources to work on that)
<davidbarth> the theme enhancements are mostly complete i guess
<davidbarth> and the papercuts are, well... bugs, so the high/critical ones are still in scope for the beta iteration i assume
<iainfarrell> davidbarth: That's correct we're just testing and will only ask to make changes for bug fixes at this stage
<iainfarrell> yes, and we're over 100 papercuts too - thanks to vish
<iainfarrell> who's not here but if you see him send our love :)
<skaet> :)
 * vish here o/
<skaet> any questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC] ARM team
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM team
<ogra> hohoho, thats me !
<ogra> Detailed status at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARMTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<ogra> ...
<ogra> Short summary:
<ogra>  * oem-config issues with the current images (Bug #616581) were fixed with the most recent ubiquity upload
<ogra>  * ubuntu-netbook-efl-default-settings is still pending fixes to the default 2D session for which we will need freeze exceptions (this package only shows up on the armel images)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 616581 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Maverick) "oem-config fails to run" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/616581
<ogra>  * ongoing "normal" work on main ftbfs, most packages from main are off the list, the blocking telepathy-glib FTBFS was worked around by dropping optimization for now
<ogra>  * a massive issue with networking that tears down the whole board has been worked around (the new silicon we're about to get will fix that see bug 625108)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 625108 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu) "System hangs when you run ifconfig usb0 up and ifconfig usb0 down" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/625108
<ogra>  * dove images are building daily now
<ogra>  * kubuntu armel images are building daily now
<ogra> ...
<ogra> Beta status (somehow the tracker didnt update, that should look different):
<ogra> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile-ubuntu-10.10-beta.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile-ubuntu-10.10-beta.html
<ogra> ...
<ogra> Beta targeted specs:
<ogra> none anymore, all postponed until after beta or ready to drop
<ogra> ...
<ogra> Bugs:
<ogra> 5 went into fix committed/released status
<ogra> ...
<ogra> 7 still open for post beta work
<ogra> ...
<ogra> 2 Release blockers
<ogra> ...
<ogra> 2 bugs that will need beta freeze exceptions
<ogra> bug 613606
<ogra> bug 613230
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 613606 in ubuntu-netbook-efl-default-settings (Ubuntu Maverick) "netbook-launcher-efl running as an app in gnome desktop, not as standalone desktop." [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/613606
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 613230 in u-boot-omap4 (Ubuntu) "MIR for u-boot-linaro-omap4-panda because u-boot-omap4 fails to load new kernel after kernel update" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/613230
<ogra> err
<ogra> the latter one isnt quite right
<ogra> ah, not its just the order the bot throws them out
<skaet> ogra, any update on bug#615773?
<ogra> bug 615773
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 615773 in flash-kernel (Ubuntu Maverick) "flash-kernel fails to handle raw boot partitons on eMMC" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/615773
<ogra> skaet, no and that has to happen post beta
<skaet> ack.
<ogra> the current HW we support doesnt use eMMC, we're getiing there soon :)
<skaet> good reason;)
<ogra> whole team just gets HW upgardes with new silicon
<ogra> yeah, working with pre-production HW is *lots* of fun :)
<skaet> lol
<skaet> any questions?
<ogra> especially if you also have pre-rpoduction kernels :)
 * skaet snickers... indeed.
<skaet> thanks ogra.
<ogra> :)
<skaet> [TOPIC] MOTU
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU
 * ScottK waves
<skaet> :)
<ScottK> lucas is going to do another archive rebuild early next week so we should have a current FTBFS list soon.
<ScottK> Lots of NBS work and FTBFS left.  Since we've dropped sparc and ia64 it's hard to say exactly how we compare to previous releases.
<ScottK> Nothing more to report.
<skaet> ScottK, any update on bug 615773 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 615773 in flash-kernel (Ubuntu Maverick) "flash-kernel fails to handle raw boot partitons on eMMC" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/615773
<ogra> go ScottK, fix it ! :)
 * skaet smiles - she got the syntax right for the bot ... finally
<ScottK> No.
<skaet> s/me hangs head.... typo.  arrgh.
<skaet> bug 610975
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 610975 in wxwidgets2.8 (Ubuntu Maverick) "relocation error with latest wxwidgets2.8" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/610975
<ogra> gah i was hoping you tell him to fix it for us :)
<ScottK> No.  I need to understand where we are on that.
<ScottK> Not just for maverick but due to the SRU regression.
<skaet> hmm.... that bug is not matching the notes in agenda....   will clean up...
<skaet> bug in agenda was saying can not start pgadmin3...  cut and paste issue I guess..
<ScottK> wx is typically a pile of pain in any case.
<ScottK> It's the same bug.
 * skaet learns....
<skaet> ScottK thanks
<skaet> [TOPIC]  Linaro
<MootBot> New Topic:   Linaro
<JamieBennett> Nothing much release wise for Linaro, we are on top of the existing 3 bugs and there may be a FFe request for a new kernel update before beta but that's all to report. Things are good in Linaro land ATM.
<skaet> cool.
<ScottK> Is the linaro kernel used on any ISO's built by Ubuntu?
<ogra> no, only their bootloader will be soon
<ScottK> OK.  Thanks.
 * JamieBennett nods
<ogra> we might switch in natty for omap
<skaet> any other questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC] 10.4.2 LTS
<MootBot> New Topic:  10.4.2 LTS
<ScottK> FYI, u-boot-linaro is in binary New, so you should bribe some archive admin to push it out.
<ogra> ScottK, jdstrand is on it
<skaet> any other things to talk about before closing the meeting?
<ogra> skaet, you did very well for your first time, kudos
<jdstrand> ogra: accepted
<ScottK> When do we plan to start rolling "final" images for beta?
<skaet> cjwatson: ^
<cjwatson> I was thinking first thing Tuesday?
<ScottK> Sounds good.
<cjwatson> if that works for people
<cjwatson> if nothing else, Monday's a bank holiday here
 * ogra hugs jdstrand 
<JamieBennett> Yeah, day off ftw ;)
<jdstrand> :)
 * skaet notes not to call folks on monday.
<skaet> thanks all.
<skaet> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:28.
<seb128> thanks skaet
 * skaet toddles off to start grubbing through bugs some more....
<skaet> seb128, obra,  thanks.
<seb128> skaet, btw be aware that retracers are still down
 * ScottK hands skaet a 'g'.
<seb128> so we get no crash bugs going through
<seb128> launchpad guys said they would have a workaround in early next week
<skaet> seb128,  retracers?  education please.... new term.
<seb128> skaet, do you know about apport?
<seb128> not sure where to start the explanations ;-)
<seb128> skaet, it's our bug reporting software, it catches crashes
<skaet> seb128,  heh,  heard the terms,  will start grilling robbiew
<seb128> skaet, you can apt-cache show apport
<skaet> cool.
<robbiew> skaet: or talk to the guy who wrote apport
<seb128> skaet, basically when something crashes apport get the coredump of the crash
<robbiew> heh
<seb128> skaet, add some extra informations on your system, package versions, etc
<seb128> collect some infos specific to the package
<seb128> and send that to launchpad
<seb128> crash bugs are private by default
<seb128> often the users don't have debug symbols
<seb128> so we have services in the dc running and going through those bugs
<seb128> using apport-retrace
<seb128> which is basically a "get the summary of the package installed and its depends, install the corresponding -dbgsym in a sandbox, use gdb on the coredump, get a debug stacktrace"
<seb128> those go through crashes bugs on launchpad, get the stracktrace, clean the coredump and subscribe bugsquad
<skaet> can understand, very useful on getting meaningful info from the bug when the user may not know what to send.
<seb128> the bugsquad from there can review the stacktrace for private info and mark those public
<seb128> that's the theory
<skaet> because certain customers may have confidential data in the trace?
<seb128> right now bug #620458 breaks this service
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 620458 in Launchpad Bugs "cannot access attachments of private bugs any more" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/620458
<seb128> so the service doesn't run
<skaet> why is it considered Low then?
<seb128> the crashes are not processed, the triagers not subscribed
<seb128> so we pile bugs nobody has access to
<seb128> skaet, triaging error, they have made it a high priority and are working actively on it since it's known
<seb128> it's handled as a high priority bug
<seb128> the status is wrong there
<skaet> whew...
<seb128> skaet, <skaet> because certain customers may have confidential data in the trace?
<seb128> not only customer
<seb128> rather any user
<seb128> if your email client crash the coredump might have your password in clear in the coredump
<seb128> or the content of the email you were reading
<seb128> we can let access to the coredump due to that
<seb128> well the summary is that none of the crash bugs are reaching us
<skaet> makes sense.
<seb128> there a backlog of some hundred bugs to retrace
<skaet> hmm,  will talk this over a bit with marjo, and see what can be done.
<seb128> skaet, not sure if you have a metric for bugs yet but common crashes collect quite some duplicate counts
<marjo> skaet: ack
<seb128> I saw you called a dx indicator crash without duplicate before
<skaet> thanks for making me aware of it, and giving me the context to understand.  :)
<seb128> not sure if you picked just that one, but don't pay lot of attention with crashes without debug stacktrace or duplicates
<seb128> they are often not worth it
<ScottK> Although, as seb128 says, the Launchpad team have prioritized this appropriately, it is not unheard of for the LP priority not to match the importance Ubuntu developers feel an LP bug should have.
<seb128> real issue collect ten of duplicates every week usually
<skaet> seb128, heh, gotcha.
<seb128> skaet, oh, another detail, the retracers have auto duplication
<marjo> seb128: that's one of the many challenges: too many duplicates
<seb128> skaet, they have a database of crash signature and auto close as duplicate the ones matching a known signature
<seb128> marjo, the retracers deal just fine with those usually
<marjo> seb128: ack
<seb128> marjo, that should not be visible to anybody, they don't send email and just autoclose them as duplicate
<seb128> skaet, not sure I've been really clear, there is documentation about apport on the ubuntu wiki
<seb128> skaet, you can also ask questions if some details are not clear
<ScottK> Short version of the docs is "ask pitti, he knows all about it."
<skaet> seb128, thanks!   will hunt down those wiki pages.
<skaet> ScottK,  lol.  :)  thanks.
 * skaet adds some wiki hunting, to the bug grubbing, and poking around with apport to the afternoon list
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-08-28
<geohacker> Hi! I'm having trouble with creating a wiki page. It says UnknownTimeZoneError'Asia/Kolkata'
<geohacker> can someone give me a clue how to get through this one?
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-08-29
<tomswartz07> Does anyone notice that 'calendar' is spelled wrong in the topic? jussi01 has it spelled 'calender'
* persia changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Google Calendar doesn't understand UTC.  Please check in UTC time and confirm meeting times on the fridge
<tomswartz07> haha. thanks
<Zotto> Hola a todos
<Zotto> Hola?
<gorilla> Zotto: This is not a discussion channel but for meetings only.
<Zotto> oh sorry, do you know where i have support?
<gorilla> try #ubuntu-team
<gorilla> impatient!
<SergioMeneses> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGlobalJamEs
<topyli> hi
<jussi> ooh, we have a topyli
<topyli> need 5min, sorry
<jussi> k
<jussi> we dont have quorum yet anyway
<Pici> hi
<jussi> ooh, hi Pici
<jussi> @random Pici topyli jussi
<ubottu> Pici
<Pici> :(
<jussi> you are chairing then...
<gnomefreak> including me only 4 people?
<Pici> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 13:04. The chair is Pici.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * jussi wonders if LjL is around
<LjL> yes
<jussi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda
<Pici> #topic Legitimacy of discussing policies and op actions by people not directly affected
<Pici> [topic] Legitimacy of discussing policies and op actions by people not directly affected
<MootBot> New Topic:  Legitimacy of discussing policies and op actions by people not directly affected
<LjL> I will have to leave for dinner shortly, so I have prepared my points beforehand. Should I start pasting?
 * Pici fumbles with mootbot
<Pici> Go ahead
<LjL> My agenda item is about whether or not it is appropriate for someone to discuss the operator actions involved in a ban (or similar measure) even when the ban involved a different user.
<LjL> I think it should be, mostly in the name of open debate and criticism. Specifically:
<LjL> - generally speaking, open discussion of the policies is a good thing, and like it or not, when it comes to IRC, bans become an important part of policy making
<LjL> - the banned person is not always in the best position to discuss their own ban, even if they have some constructive criticism about it, because they are likely to either avoid further attrition with the ops in order to get their ban lifted, or sometimes get very upset about what they feel was an unfair ban, and not act with the needed calm
<LjL> - someone lobbying against a ban on behalf of the banned may be their friend, and just doing it to get their ban lifted; however, it shouldn't be difficult for the ops to use common sense to tell apart this situation (example: the person complaining was never in the channel before) from the case where someone has concerns about policies implied in the ban (as opposed to purely the ban itself)
<LjL> In the incident that caused me to bring this up in the agenda, for instance, one of the reasons I attempted to discuss ryaxnb's ban was that days before, when Flannel asked him if he could drop a topic that was perceived as uninteresting, I had said:
<LjL> [00:52] <LjL> ryaxnbuntu: i don't think he was speaking as an op there though. as much as we might all be tired of your ramblings, there is no particular reason to actually request stopping that discussion.
<LjL> Because I said that to ryaxnb in good faith, and then later he was banned on the grounds of doing what I had told him he wouldn't be banned for, I believe I had a legitimate interest in his ban (rather than being a "sent" by him to "bully", as I was perhaps too hastily accused of doing).
<LjL> I also believe similar circumstances where someone may have a legitimate interest in a ban, even though he's not directly involved in it, are potentially many; I'd say they are more than the cases where the concern is not legitimate.
<LjL> So, please don't gag everyone just because there will always be someone complaining for the sake of complaining.
<Pici> Hmmm.
<jussi> lol, was typing the same thing
 * gnomefreak im still trying to figure out the first part of it
<jussi> While can understand LjL's point, there is also a point to be made for discussion of the ban only with affected parties. pehaps it should be extended to "relevant parties"?
<topyli> ops discuss each others' actions. letting users do the same is a slippery slope
<LjL> How do you determine relevancy? Also, what would happen if someone (me, for instance) asked "theoretically", "hypothetically" about whether the guidelines/policies would justify taking action against a user, without making any specific reference?
<jussi> devils advocate a bit, lets look at it like this:  what bad things can happen from discussing bans with any user intersted?
<topyli> jussi: some such restriction could work, although "relevant" is hard to define
<LjL> topyli: I absolutely disagree with that statement. This is not a democracy, but it's a community. You can't get the users completely out of the loop like that, because the users MAKE the community.
<Pici> We have a number of people in our channels who aren't ops who I would accept criticism from regarding my actions as an operator.
<topyli> LjL: true. just pondering how to keep it sane
<LjL> topyli: as I said, i think common sense would work. A user who you've never seen before join -ops and asks "why did you ban XYZ?!". You check the logs, and apparently that person wasn't even present when the ban happened. What gives? Well, you tell them to have the involved person join.
<topyli> common sense is indeed handy
<LjL> There really is no need to let them be the banned entity's attorney in that case. But even then, if they go on to say something like "I'm not asking for the ban to be removed, but I would like to clarify with you the policies that led to that", what's wrong with that, even if it involved criticism?
<jussi> but there needs to be some codification of it
<Pici> We tell people that if they have a problem with the actions of an operator or one of our channel policies that they can join -ops to discuss, isn't what LjL is suggesting just an extension of that?
<jussi> yes, it is.
<LjL> I think it's... just that, actually.
<IdleOne> I feel that any user asking for clarification about a specific ban is entitled to it, NOT while the op is discussing it with the user affected by the ban.
<LjL> I was indeed very put off when I was told it wasn't appropriate. I thought I was merely following the !appeals factoid.
<LjL> IdleOne: agreed.
<gnomefreak> but isnt that why the bot asks us to comment on a remove/ban so that it is posted to the bt. and i am assuming everyone has access to it not just ops
<LjL> It isn't a public show, or for that matter a TV tribune, for sure.
<Pici> gnomefreak: no the bt is operator access only.
<LjL> gnomefreak: only ops have BT access.
<gnomefreak> k
<jussi> gnomefreak: not yet, if we get bt2 up soon...
<IdleOne> LjL: I think it was not appropriate at the time because flannel was in the middle of talking to ryan..
<LjL> IdleOne: what? No, he wasn't...
<IdleOne> LjL: I might be mistaken, I would have to look back at the log
<LjL> Unless by "in the middle" you mean idle for a day or so
<IdleOne> in any case, I think you have the right to join -ops and ask why a ban was placed.
<LjL> For clarity - what happened is that I joined #ubuntu-ops, asked for "a rationale for ryaxnb's ban"; ikonia started discussing that with me; then elky pointed out that bullies sent by the bannee aren't welcome, and that she didn't know bans were discussed with third-parties.
<topyli> i think LjL's case provides an example of what we should allow. but how to generalize it as policy, i don't know offhand
<LjL> Flannel wasn't involved at that time.
<Pici> topyli: Thats what I've been trying to figure out.
<jussi> topyli: +1
<Pici> I don't want to see -ops turning into a zoo.
<gnomefreak> the disscussion should stop at why. it never not extend to "please un ban him" or anything the like
<LjL> Honestly, don't you think that maybe the time (which is, I have to say, *very* long on average) ops tend to spend discussing bans with people who are, let's face it, often obvious trolls, could be better spent addressing *other* people's concerns?
<IdleOne> topyli: agreed, it is hard to make a policy on something that requires common sense
<topyli> IdleOne: aye
<LjL> gnomefreak: not "please unban him", but certainly criticism of the reasons the ban was placed should be acceptable.
<LjL> Besides, if it's not acceptable for the IRC Council, then the only other venue would be the Community Council. Is that warranted?
<topyli> mistakes happen all the time, after all
<gnomefreak> LjL: i agree with that.im just worried that it will get that far
<jussi> LjL: feel free to propose policy wording if you have something you have been thinking of.
<IdleOne> LjL: I think the fear here is like Pici said -ops could potentially turn into a zoo
<LjL> IdleOne: that's why it's called "common sense" and not "policy" ;)
<gnomefreak> maybe a PM might be better off?
<LjL> jussi: I really don't think there is need for any written policy myself. !Appeals already tell people what they can expect to be able to do, just fine.
<LjL> gnomefreak: PM might work sometimes but I don't think the IRC Team should reserve the right to force everything to PM. That's why #ubuntu-ops exists and why there's supposed to be transparency...
<Pici> !appeaks
<Pici> !appeala
<Pici> argh
<IdleOne> haha
<Pici> !appeals
<ubottu> If you disagree with a decision by an operator, please first pay #ubuntu-ops a visit. If you are still unhappy, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/AppealProcess for the steps you should take. If you feel the need to discuss the channel rules, please contact the ops on IRC or via the email address on the aforementioned page.
<LjL> Written policy, in my opinion, would be warranted if the decision were to NOT allow talk about bans. But if the decision will be to allow it, then why policy?
<Pici> I think we should make a slight modification to the wording of the appeals wiki to make it match what the factoid says.  i.e, you don't need to be the target of the action to start a dialog.
<LjL> I have to leave now, even though I might be able to peek once every few minutes.
<jussi> do we then allow "attorney" style antics?
<IdleOne> no
<jussi> or is this just a policy discussion mechanism
<Pici> Yes.  Just like we allow discussion of other irc issues.
<IdleOne> we allow users to ask why a ban was set but not allow a third party to "defend" the banee
<topyli> i'd say it falls under the ability of anybody to join -ops and discuss things that worry them
<guntbert> jussi: I haven't seen the attempt from anyone to speak "on behalve" of someone else - so no "attorney style"
<Pici> It happens, but its fairly rare.
<guntbert> and should definitely not be accepted
<jussi> so my view is we add something that says roughly "if yo want to discuss policy relating to a ban feel free to join -ops"
 * gnomefreak has learned it is not a smart thing to do since people are not always predictible
<gnomefreak> make a note that it stops at policy (at least it should stop there or it can get messy)
<topyli> jussi: yeah, it would keep current policy but clarify it
<LjL> One more thing - if it's decided that these discussions are to be allowed, then I will probably join #ubuntu-ops again and discuss ryaxnb's ban, *even though the ban has been lifted*, because I am concerned about the relevant policies. Do you see how that is definitely not being anyone's attorney? They aren't banned!
<jussi> Pici: do you think a vote is appropriate at this point?
<Pici> jussi: I was just going to suggest it
<jussi> :)
<IdleOne> Who can vote exactly? just IRCC member right?
<jussi> je
<IdleOne> k
<jussi> jes
<topyli> LjL: say if ryaxnb and whoever banned him were discussing his ban. *then* it would not be ok for you to interfere. othrwise, it would not be interference but general policy discussion
<Pici> [vote] Shall we slightly revise the appeals wiki entry to clarify that users may dispute operator actions even when they were not the user affected by such actions?
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Shall we slightly revise the appeals wiki entry to clarify that users may dispute operator actions even when they were not the user affected by such actions?.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<Pici> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Pici. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<jussi> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jussi. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<topyli> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from topyli. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<gnomefreak> be voting can we make a trial run out of it first to see how it will run?
<Pici> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 3
<jussi> gnomefreak: everything we do is a trial, if it doesnt work, you raise it and we talk about it a again
<gnomefreak> ok
<Pici> Who wants to make the changes?
<jussi> Pici: nhandler said feel free to assign him something...
<jussi> :D
<Pici> [action] nhandler to revise wiki page
<MootBot> ACTION received:  nhandler to revise wiki page
<jussi> now, any bugs open?
<topyli> thanks nhandler! :)
<Pici> I don't think theres anything else.
<jussi> ok, thanks everyone! :)
<Pici> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:38.
<IdleOne> :)
<Pici> I'll put the notes up later.
<topyli> grand
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-08-22
<jdstrand> hi
<mdeslaur> \o
<kees> o/
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Aug 22 17:00:38 2011 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Useful Commands: #topic #action #link #idea #voters #vote #chair #action #agreed #help #info #endmeeting.
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Review of any previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review of any previous action items
<meetingology> TOPIC: Review of any previous action items
<jdstrand> I don't see any ACTION items this week. I think in the future I will skip this section unless we have an ACTIOn item
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<meetingology> TOPIC: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> so, I am mostly caught up on email
<jdstrand> there are several things I am juggling that are eating up time
<jdstrand> in addition to that, I am on triage this week
<jdstrand> while doing that, I hope to look at my metrics work item, since it is related
<jdstrand> I made some good progress on defining/implementing dbus/apparmor tests last week
<jdstrand> there is still a bit more to do
<jdstrand> it appears that jjohansen will be jandling the actual dbus patching-- which I think is probably for the best. he is in a better position to do that since it, libapparmor, the kernel, et al need to be updated in sync
<jdstrand> I will do the ubuntu integration, testing and any thing else I can to support his work
<jdstrand> (including the tests work this week)
<jdstrand> I think that is it from me for now
<jdstrand> kees: you're up
<kees> okay, I've got the initial metric graphs up, and I'll probalby tweak them a little
<kees> I'm going to focus on the remaining work items this week. there are a few I don't actually remember what they were about. heh
<jdstrand> kees: thanks so much for those btw. they look great :)
<kees> I'm on community too this week
<jdstrand> kees: it's nice to have these metrics not only defined (as of this cycle), but now (almost fully) implemented :)
<kees> heh
<kees> I'll probably continue some of the AppArmor code reviews too. there are a few more that I think need attention still.
<kees> mdeslaur's up!
<mdeslaur> I just _finally_ published foomatic-filters this morning
<mdeslaur> Friday I'm on patch pilot duty
<mdeslaur> next week, I'm on vacation
<mdeslaur> This week, I'll be going down the list
<mdeslaur> that's about it!
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm back from vacation and trying to demangle my inbox.
<sbeattie> Otherwise I need to go over some of the apparmor reviews and see where we stand.
<sbeattie> I think that's it for me.
<sbeattie> micahg?
<jdstrand> micahg: is off today and asked me to fill in for him
<jdstrand> he has a short week this week
<jdstrand> expects webkit and tbird to go out today
<jdstrand> is working on the firefox 6 transition in maverick
<jdstrand> and is expecting a chromium update from upstream
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<meetingology> TOPIC: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/teamspeak-server.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/weborf.html|weborf
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/dopewars.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/mednafen.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/texmacs.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<meetingology> TOPIC: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<mdeslaur> lol, dopewars :)
<kees> :)
<jdstrand> yes, without looking, I'm guessing /tmp race
<jdstrand> nope
<jdstrand> ok, if there are no questions, thanks everyone! :)
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology is the new Mootbot https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Aug 22 17:17:36 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot . (v 0.1.4)
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-08-22-17.00.moin.txt
<kees> thanks jdstrand !
<mdeslaur> it's a DoDS - Denial of Dope Service
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: thanks!
<sbeattie> hehe
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
<jdstrand> sure thing :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-08-23
<Daviey> o/
<smoser> o/
<smb> \o
<adam_g> o/
<smoser> hooray for smb and fix to bug 784937
<m_3_> hi
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 784937 in linux (Ubuntu Oneiric) "/mnt not mounted, swap not used, disk is xvde" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/784937
<smb> smoser, welcome. though even more glad to have bug 791850 done as well... :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 791850 in linux (Ubuntu Oneiric) "oneiric cluster compute (hvm) instances do not boot" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/791850
<Daviey> smb: I noticed they went from my list! :)
<Daviey> and the last one you are doing looks sane!
<smoser> smb, oh, wow, i didn't know that one!
<zul> sorry
<zul> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Aug 23 16:01:54 2011 UTC.  The chair is zul. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Useful Commands: #topic #action #link #idea #voters #vote #chair #action #agreed #help #info #endmeeting.
<zul> hi
<zul> lets get started
<zul> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<meetingology> TOPIC: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<zul> so is the xvd stuff taken care of?
<zul> smb/smoser:^^^
<zul> and i see it has
<smb> zul, not really
<zul> doh...well ill leave it on the agenda then
<smb> Was a different xvd thing and I think we missed that
<zul> #topic Oneiric Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Oneiric Development
<meetingology> TOPIC: Oneiric Development
<smoser> zul, yes. smb is super fly.
<Daviey> o/
<Daviey> *** BETA Freeze this Thursday ***
<Daviey> Issues we are currently tracking for release:
<Daviey> http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html
<Daviey> Any issues not present, please raise them as soon as possible and let me know about them.
<Daviey> Any features not yet landed, please shout about them at the top of your voice so they can be heard.
<Daviey> *** BETA Freeze this Thursday ***
<Daviey> Please make sure that blueprints work item status accurately reflects the status of tasks (i think we are pretty good):
<Daviey> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/group/topic-oneiric-server-overview.html
<Daviey> cobbler-enrol should hopefully land tomorrow.
<zul> yay
<Daviey> Quick round table of what people are working on that is expected to land this week?
<zul> there is some still nova MIR to take care of but i think swift is waiting to be pushed into main and some glance needs a bit tweaking as well
<Daviey> zul: Are you jumping on the MIR's?
<zul> Daviey: i was yes..
<Daviey> rock-ing
<Daviey> smoser: How is the lxc issues you were hitting looking?
<zul> although someone mentioned me in a bug and didnt suscribe me
<Daviey> zul: How is libvirt looking for arm?
<Daviey> zul: what bug?
<zul> Daviey: good it works with lxc
<zul> the socat one
<smoser> i just opened some bugs, but we're moving forward. thanks to hallyn for determining that one of my issues was a config issue (well, not really, but sort of)
<Daviey> zul: ISTR you were looking at getting rid of socat?
<Daviey> smoser: Are you blocked on hallyn being /away?
<zul> Daviey: yeah it would have been nice to do...still looking
<smoser> Daviey, no.
<Daviey> zul: viable for oneirici?
<Daviey> oneiric?
<zul> probably not
<zul> the tgtadm stuff is blocked on me as well
<Daviey> We'd welcome qemu 0.15 (via hallyn) and the libvirt new version that zul is working on testing.. all welcome :)
<zul> also lxc block devices
<zul> anything else
<zul> ?
<smoser> is that in ?
<smoser> libvirt ?
<zul> i need to backport it
<smoser> backport what?
<zul> smoser: talk after the meeting?
<smoser> wait.. its relevant here.
<smoser> you're expecting a new libvirt , right ? and one with "lxc block devices" ?
<smoser> (bug 828792)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 828792 in libvirt (Ubuntu) "[FFE] Merge 0.9.3-5 from debian unstable" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/828792
<zul> right a new libvirt that supports lxc blcok devices
<Daviey> smoser: it's not yet ack'd due to concerns of having a new libvirt this late in the cycle.
<Daviey> However, it seems some of the features it has we could really benefit from.
<smoser> well, yes, and then you'd likely need nova code changes to use it
<zul> and it would be 0.9.4 as well
<Daviey> So we should consider it.
 * utlemming joins late with apologies
<zul> smoser: im well aware of that :)
<zul> cool?
<zul> anything else?
<smoser> personally, unless there was a significant list of "these issues are *fixed*" i would suggest holding off on 2 underlying packages.
<Daviey> Please do let me know about FFe bugs that are relevant.
<zul> smoser: im going to merge it and test it this afternoon
<Daviey> smoser: I agree with the concerns, but we should at least sniff them before nacking
<Daviey> utlemming: Anything interesting expected to land this week in the cloud image area?
<utlemming> Daviey: not per se, just behind the scenes type stuff
<utlemming> I expect to have the arm images being side-by-side the ec2 images
<Daviey> utlemming: rocking..
<Daviey> Anyone waiving ensemble flag this week?
<utlemming> although there doesn't appear to be an offical installable arm kernel for the cloud images
<utlemming> linario is providing the arm kernel, so I am chasing that down
<SpamapS> Ensemble needs an FFe .. working on that
<Daviey> utlemming: I'll catch up with you after the meeting, the conversation carried on in #ubuntu-kernel
<utlemming> k
<Daviey> SpamapS: can you let me know of the FFe as soon as it is raised please.
<Daviey> Anything else regarding oneiric development?
<SpamapS> ack
<zul> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<meetingology> TOPIC: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<zul> hggdh: around?
<zul> if not we can come back later to him
<Daviey> hggdh_: If you catch this later, I need to catch up with you (or direct me to someone else)
<Daviey> Regarding the plan to QA the beta candidates.
<zul> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<meetingology> TOPIC: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<zul> hi smb whats up doc?
<smb> As mentioned above fixes bug bug 791850 and bug 784937 are in the latest oneiric kernel (and incidentally just appeared upstream as well)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 791850 in linux (Ubuntu Oneiric) "oneiric cluster compute (hvm) instances do not boot" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/791850
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 784937 in linux (Ubuntu Oneiric) "/mnt not mounted, swap not used, disk is xvde" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/784937
<smb> So next I get back to look at oneiric dom0
<hggdh_> Daviey: OTP, will ping you in a few
<Daviey> smb: If you continue to fix these issues, we'll have to find more stuff for you to handle. :)
<smb> HVM still was having issues
<zul> yeah ill get to xen this week :(
<smb> zul, I am about to try to try the latest oneiric with oneiric dom0
<Daviey> Keep in mind that the freeze this Thursday makes life much harder to land stuff after that.
<zul> and i noticed that the cgroup bug that i raised was fixed commited as well
<smb> As we now had xen 4.1.1 we may actually need the stuff that pv on hvm patch changed
<Daviey> smb: HVM still having issues, what bug is that?
<smb> Daviey, none yet actually.. :(
<smb> Daviey, After ff there was a bit of time i needed to get the dom0 working again
<Daviey> smb: Can you create one, even if empty initially - just for this to be tracked?
<smb> Daviey, ack
<Daviey> It's not an issue i think was known before
<smb> Daviey, dom0 hvm worked with 4.1.0 of xen
<smb> Just when we moved to 4.1.1 it broke (differently)
<Daviey> smb: So bug 790712 is looking "ok" ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 790712 in linux (Ubuntu Oneiric) "20110531 i386 server ISO: order 5 allocation failure during install" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/790712
<Daviey> smb: xen being broken shocker?
<smb> Daviey, Well ok is probably different
<smb> It works with more ram... Actually have not looked at it for a while...
<Daviey> smb: Ok, thanks for the update.  We appareicate you attention :)
<Daviey> your
<smb> Actually...
<smb> hggdh_, I should see that in the logs but maybe you know off your head. Are the kenkins vms running with virtio disks or emulated controllers?
<smb> jenkins*
<Daviey> smb: I would have thought virtio, but jamespage (/away) or hggdh_ might know better.
<smb> Anyway. Probably should be asked/answered in the bug
<Daviey> I can dig into it later if that helps.
<smb> ack, will try to check in log as well
<smb> ..
<Daviey> super
<Daviey> thanks!
<zul> cool moving on
<zul> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (NCommander)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (NCommander)
<meetingology> TOPIC: Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (NCommander)
<zul> is NCommander around?
<Daviey> I believe he is travelling
<zul> anyone from the arm team?
<Daviey> ogra_: Don't suppose he briefed anyone else on the team?
<GrueMaster> not me.
<Daviey> or you GrueMaster :)
<GrueMaster> afaik, NCommanderran into issues with lxc last week.  Not sure on the details.
<GrueMaster> I am busy figuring out how to implement a ton of tests on arm server.
<Daviey> GrueMaster: ok, thanks.  NCommander - when you see this, we need to talk.
<zul> cool
<GrueMaster> Making good progress on manual test execution.  Once I have all the tests figured out, I can work on automation.
<hggdh_> smb: good Q... let me check. I would hope virtio
<zul> moving on?
<zul> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
<meetingology> TOPIC: Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
<Daviey> Wow!
<zul> kim0: anything
<Daviey> ersi is our latest triager, doing GREAT work.
<zul> cool!
<ersi> Hehe, hey there. :-)
<Daviey> hey ersi o/
<Daviey> lynxman has been contributing fixes this week.
<ersi> Been pushin' them newies to the incompleties and confiries ;-)
<Daviey> hggdh_ has also been most helpful with a number of packaging issues.
<Daviey> ersi: every little helps.. if you need or support, do know you can ask :)
<ersi> Of course!
<zul> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion
<meetingology> TOPIC: Open Discussion
<zul> i like turtles, the chocolate kind
<ersi> Mmmmh, beer etc.
<Daviey> Just a (further) reminder that beta freeze is THIS thursday
<zul> anyone want to raise something?
<Daviey> If anyone has questions or concerns, please raise them now or shortly after the meeting in #ubuntu-server, or with me directly. Thanks.
<zul> ...
<Daviey> Can we go home now?
<zul> yes
<zul> same time same place next week
<zul> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology is the new Mootbot https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Aug 23 16:37:34 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot . (v 0.1.4)
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-08-23-16.01.moin.txt
<hggdh_> smb: we use virtio, indeed
<smb> hggdh_, Ok thanks for confirmin
<bjf> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Aug 23 17:00:12 2011 UTC.  The chair is bjf. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Useful Commands: #topic #action #link #idea #voters #vote #chair #action #agreed #help #info #endmeeting.
<bjf> ##
<bjf> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<bjf> ##
<apw> o/
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<jjohansen> \o
<cking> o/
<bjf> # Meeting Etiquette
<bjf> #
<bjf> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<bjf> #       'o/' indicates you have something you'd like to add (wait until you are recognized)
<bjf> #
<bjf> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<meetingology> TOPIC: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> For every arm flavour but natty/ti-omap4 an update should be on its way out. Mainly the updated kernels contain CVEs fixes.
<ppisati> Oneiric/ti-omap4: work continues on lp709245, found a patchset that should enable localtimers even in the nosmp case but it doesn't work out of the box, i'm debugging it ATM.
<ppisati> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (ogasawara)
<meetingology> TOPIC: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<ogasawara> ==== oneiric nominated bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 32 linux kernel bugs (up 12)
<ogasawara> ==== Ubuntu ubuntu-11.10-beta-1 bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 2 linux kernel bugs (up 2)
<ogasawara> ==== <series>-updates bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 0 oneiric linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 18 natty linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 3 maverick linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 7 lucid linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 0 hardy linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> === Incoming Bugs ===
<ogasawara>  * 132 oneiric bugs (up 16)
<ogasawara>  * 1531 natty bugs (up 20)
<ogasawara>  * 1091 maverick bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 957 lucid bugs (up 3)
<ogasawara>  * 33 hardy bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> === Regressions ===
<ogasawara> ==== regression-update bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 0 oneiric bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 14 natty bugs (up 1)
<ogasawara>  * 40 maverick bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 77 lucid bugs (down 1)
<ogasawara>  * 0 hardy bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> ==== regression-release bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 6 oneiric bugs (up 3)
<ogasawara>  * 435 natty bugs (down 4)
<ogasawara>  * 238 maverick bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 216 lucid bugs (up 1)
<ogasawara>  * 2 hardy bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> ==== regression-proposed bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 1 oneiric bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 3 natty bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 1 maverick bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 1 lucid bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 0 hardy bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: Oneiric Delta Review (ogasawara)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-kernel-o-ubuntu-delta-review
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Blueprints: Oneiric Delta Review (ogasawara)
<meetingology> TOPIC: Blueprints: Oneiric Delta Review (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> nothing new to report here.  only a few items remain and are not release critical.
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: General Oneiric (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: General Oneiric (ogasawara)
<meetingology> TOPIC: Status: General Oneiric (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> We've been uploading some last minute bug fixes prior to the Beta Freeze on Thurs.  We uploaded the 3.0.0-9.13 Ubuntu kernel yesterday to fix a WARNING due to duplicate backlight registration, see LP 831542.  We've just now uploaded the 3.0.0-9.14 kernel to make sure ECRYPT_FS=y, see LP 827197.  We intend for this to be the last upload prior to Beta Freeze and the 3.0.0-9.14 kernel will be the kernel that will ship with th
<ogasawara> e Beta-1 release.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 831542 in linux (Ubuntu) "WARNING: cannot create duplicate filename intel_backlight" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/831542
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 827197 in linux (Ubuntu Oneiric) "/usr/bin/ecryptfs-setup-private fails with exit status 1 during install - User's home directory not encrypted" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/827197
<ogasawara> Also, some important dates to keep in mind are as follows:
<ogasawara>  * Sept 1 - Beta 1 (~1 weeks)
<ogasawara>  * Sept 15 - Kernel Freeze (~3 weeks)
<ogasawara>  * Sept 22 - Beta 2 (~4 weeks)
<ogasawara> We'll continue pull in bug fixes and follow upstream stable v3.0.x as we move towards release.  I'd also like to note that the P-series git repo was recently rebased it to v3.1-rc3.  It's available at git://kernel.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-p.git master-next .
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (apw)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's (apw)
<meetingology> TOPIC: Status: CVE's (apw)
<apw> === CVE Metrics ===
<apw>  
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<apw>  
<apw> Currently open CVEs for each supported branch:
<apw>  
<apw> || Package                                  || Open      ||
<apw> ||                                          ||           ||
<apw> || linux Hardy                              ||    7 (--) ||
<apw> || linux Lucid                              ||    4 (+1) ||
<apw> || linux Maverick                           ||    4 (+1) ||
<apw> || linux Natty                              ||    4 (+1) ||
<apw> || linux Oneiric                            ||    2 (--) ||
<apw> || linux-ec2 Lucid                          ||    4 (+1) ||
<apw> || linux-fsl-imx51 Lucid                    ||    4 (+1) ||
<apw> || linux-mvl-dove Lucid                     ||    4 (+1) ||
<apw> || linux-mvl-dove Maverick                  ||    4 (+1) ||
<apw> || linux-ti-omap4 Maverick                  ||    4 (+1) ||
<apw> || linux-ti-omap4 Natty                     ||    4 (+1) ||
<apw> || linux-ti-omap4 Oneiric                   ||    3 (+1) ||
<apw> || linux-lts-backport-maverick Lucid        ||    4 (+1) ||
<apw> || linux-lts-backport-natty Lucid           ||    4 (+1) ||
<apw>  
<apw> With the regressions on the master branches resolving we have now pulled the depenadant branches up to date pulling some 78 CVE fixes into those branches.  We have had a new CVE added since last week.
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Stable Kernel Team (herton)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable Kernel Team (herton)
<meetingology> TOPIC: Status: Stable Kernel Team (herton)
<herton> ||== Status of kernels ==
<herton> ||
<herton> || This would normally be kernel testing week, but we are still finishing verifications
<herton> || for Lucid and Maverick due to extra time required to find and fix regressions in this
<herton> || cycle. In addition, another new regression was reported against Lucid.
<herton> ||
<herton> || * [[http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html|Detailed Information Here]]
<herton> ||
<herton> || Kernel status for each series is as follows:
<herton> ||
<herton> ||=== Hardy ===
<herton> || * Released
<herton> ||
<herton> ||=== Lucid ===
<herton> || * [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/828375|Lucid Tracking Bug]]
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 828375 in linux (Ubuntu) "linux: 2.6.32-34.74 -proposed tracker" [Medium,In progress]
<herton> || * Awaiting verification
<herton> || * A new regression was reported, and a fix has probably be found. It requires
<herton> ||   another respin of the kernel, but verification can continue.
<herton> ||   [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/828550|Latest Lucid Regression]]
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 828550 in linux (Ubuntu) "kernel BUG at /build/buildd/linux-2.6.32/drivers/gpu/drm/i915/i915_gem_evict.c:183!" [High,Incomplete]
<herton> ||
<herton> ||=== Maverick ===
<herton> || * [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/823306|Maverick Tracking Bug]]
<herton> || * Awaiting verification completion
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 823306 in linux (Ubuntu) "[Regression] linux: 2.6.35-30.57 -proposed tracker (dup-of: 828376)" [Medium,In progress]
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 828376 in linux (Ubuntu) "linux: 2.6.35-30.58 -proposed tracker" [Medium,In progress]
<herton> ||
<herton> ||=== Natty ===
<herton> || * Released
<herton> ||
<herton> || Current Kernel versions are available here: http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/versions.html
<herton> ||
<herton> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<meetingology> TOPIC: Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<ogasawara> o/
<bjf> ogasawara, go
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Beta-1 Work Items
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-11.10-beta-1.html
<ogasawara> || apw       || other-kernel-o-bug-handling         || 2 work items||
<ogasawara> ||           || other-kernel-o-version-and-flavours || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> ||           || desktop-o-xorg-stakeholders-request || 2 work item ||
<ogasawara> || jjohansen || other-kernel-o-server-requirements  || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> || ogasawara || other-kernel-o-config-review        || 2 work items||
<ogasawara> || ppisati   || other-kernel-o-ubuntu-delta-review  || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> If your name is in the table above, please review your work items.
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> ogasawara, should we make that a specific, weekly topic ?
<ogasawara> bjf: yes please
<bjf> ogasawara, i'll make it so
<bjf> anyone else?
<jjohansen> ogasawara: kees has picked up and run with the seccomp patch
<ogasawara> jjohansen: ack
<jjohansen> ogasawara: but I will update
<bjf> thanks everyone
<bjf> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology is the new Mootbot https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Aug 23 17:10:18 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot . (v 0.1.4)
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-08-23-17.00.moin.txt
<kamal> thanks bjf
<jjohansen> thanks bjf
<ppisati> nice
<cking> sub 10 mins. sweet
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-08-24
 * slangasek waves
 * stgraber waves
<jhunt_> o/
<bdmurray> \o
<mvo> hi
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Aug 24 15:02:28 2011 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Useful Commands: #topic #action #link #idea #voters #vote #chair #action #agreed #help #info #endmeeting.
<slangasek> [TOPIC] lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: lightning round
<meetingology> TOPIC: lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e cjwatson barry doko stgraber jhunt mvo ev bdmurray slangasek)
<slangasek> barry mvo slangasek bdmurray jhunt stgraber ev cjwatson doko
<slangasek> no barry today, so mvo:
<mvo> (shorter week, worked only half a day monday/tuesday)
<mvo> did:
<mvo> software-center: lots of work on the gtk3 version, fixes in "whats new" and the sort ordering, network state/offline mode fixes, work on add-license-key infrastructure, lots of review/merges,
<mvo> misc: replaced broken openwrt router
<mvo> apt: extensive testing of the new SoC ordering code via the auto-upgrade-tester
<mvo> aptdaemon: debug/fix #828162 (multiarch), add lp:~mvo/aptdaemon/add-license-key-call, debug/fix crash with 64 bit progress types (LP: #829186), review/merge packagekit backend branch(!)
<mvo> update-manager: do not run software-properties-gtk, upload new version
<mvo> next week:
<mvo>  VACATION
<mvo> EOF
<mvo> (eh, do not run software-properties-gtk as root that should read)
<slangasek> ah, done too quickly, I should've rigged the output to put myself last like I usually do
<slangasek> bdmurray: can you go ahead? :)
<bdmurray> aye
<bdmurray> bug triage of canonical-foundations and canonical-qa team assigned bug reports
<bdmurray> reviewing foundations team bugs that missed the alpha-3 milestone
<bdmurray> writing a bug pattern and a bug bot function for ubiquity bug 743359
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 743359 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Installer: LockFailedException: Failed to lock /target/var/cache/apt/archives/lock" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/743359
<bdmurray> bug pattern writing for bug 386763 (defoma locked exists)
<bdmurray> bug pattern writing for bug 828759 regarding ubuntu-meta
<bdmurray> update to search-bugs from bugpatterns to accept a within X number of days parameter to make cron'ing it easier
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 386763 in defoma (Ubuntu) "[Master] font package failed to install/upgrade: post-installation exit status 1 - /var/lib/defoma/locked exists." [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/386763
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 828759 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu Oneiric) "package ubuntu-desktop 1.240 failed to install/upgrade: ErrorMessage: dependency problems - leaving unconfigured" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/828759
<bdmurray> email to defect analysts regarding search-bugs cronjob
<bdmurray> email to the defect analysts team regarding invalid apport-package bug reports
<bdmurray> patch-subscriber fix for dealing with bugs with subscribers that are private teams or people
<bdmurray> updated firefox-lp-improvements extension to work with firefox 7
<bdmurray> improvements to ubiquity duplicate signatures for syslog files and tracebacks
<bdmurray> bug triage of ubiquity duplicate signature bug reports
<bdmurray> creation of a bug bot function to detect hardware errors for /, /var, or /usr partitions resulting in an apport-package bug report
<bdmurray> investigated / started writing a transitioned to High and Critical bug report using launchpadlib
<bdmurray> defect analysts sprint last week
<bdmurray> done
<jhunt_> Overcame blocking bug in tests for Upstart job logging feature (yay!)
<jhunt_> Currently frantically writing remaining tests (of which there are oodles^2).
<jhunt_> Bank Holiday on Monday 29th.
<jhunt_> î¿
<stgraber> jhunt_: is that last character == "done" ? :)
<jhunt_> stgraber: yeah - its an Ubuntu logo symbol "done" :)
<stgraber> ok :)
<stgraber> let's see if my copy/paste works this time around :)
<stgraber>  - LinuxCon last week
<stgraber>  - Working on Edubuntu mostly this week, trying to get everyting in shape by tomorrow
<stgraber>    - Rewrote ltsp-live entirely, testing it now should be uploaded this afternoon
<stgraber>    - Patched unity-greeter a bit to work better with flavours
<stgraber>    - Various theming/UI updates
<stgraber>    - Work on the installer slideshow
<stgraber>  - Other than that, fought with my SAN for two hours yesterday, it finally works again :)
<stgraber>  - Still working with TPM trying to get it working in a PPA for Oneiric and hopefully in P.
<stgraber>  - TODO list
<stgraber>    - Fix iTalc FTBFS (apparently can't find QT since multiarch change)
<stgraber>    - Manual IPv6 testing for cyphermox
<stgraber>    - Work on automated testing of IPv6 for QA
<stgraber> wow, looks like it did!
<stgraber> (done)
<ev> - Lots of work on wireless networking and webcam pages on the installer, now
<ev>   done and uploaded.
<ev> - Expanded tests for ubiquity.
<ev> - Helped the web team review their plans for developer.ubuntu.com.
<ev> - More fixes/breakage to gst-plugins-{good,bad}.
<ev> - Port the noninteractive frontend to PyGI.
<ev> (done)
<cjwatson> Mostly slogging through NBS and build failures this week (libav, evolution, ibus, gnustep, etc. etc. ad nauseam).  Melting laptop with pbuilder.
<cjwatson> Some more tweaks to LP API syncpackage; now merged, although there are some more to-do items (partly in Launchpad).
<cjwatson> Trying *again* to get my Launchpad dpkg-xz-support branch merged.  Current blocker is new EC2 images ...
<cjwatson> Various discussions about rotational maintenance team.
<cjwatson> Took a small hatchet to console-cyrillic to fix bug 597673.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 597673 in console-cyrillic (Ubuntu Oneiric) "console-cyrillic changes settings on consoles it doesn't own, causing crashes with plymouth + X" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/597673
<cjwatson> Working on switching Chinese edition images over to new ubuntu-defaults-image build framework.  Nearly there.
<cjwatson> Provisionally arranged accommodation for the release sprint.
<cjwatson> Planning some UEFI testing soon to make sure that's in shape for beta.
<cjwatson> --
<doko> rotational maintenance team?
<cjwatson> only a tentative idea as yet, I'll tell you about it after the meeting :)
<slangasek> stgraber: ping me if you need any help with the Qt multiarch problem
<stgraber> slangasek: I probably will. I can build it fine but I'd rather avoid patching its configure file to achieve that ;)
<doko> - archive test rebuild: amd64 finished, i386 at libx,
<doko>   ~1100 ftbfs in the bug tracker.
<doko> - sent gcc-multiarch patch upstream, not yet accepted,
<doko>   maintainers would like to see a multiarch definition
<doko>   documentation first.
<doko> - backported the multiarch patch to 4.4, 4.5, 4.6.
<doko>   gcc, gcj, gnat uploads
<doko> - eglibc merge
<doko> - got the MIR queue down
<doko> - chased down libreoffice build failure on armel
<doko> - integrated libffi, eglibc, gcc patches to get
<doko>   openjdk-6 built on armhf (with help from xranby)
<doko>   jamvm doesn't yet run on armhf.
<doko> - ftbfs fixing
<doko> - started the rebuild test on armel
<slangasek> well, sometimes patching configure (... configure.in, I mean) is the right fix; there's a lot of wrong detection code out there
<doko> - linaro toolchain working group calls
<doko> make it 1150 now
<slangasek> cjwatson: how are EC2 images blocking dpkg-xz-support?  Resource contention?
<cjwatson> slangasek: Launchpad EC2 test images, not ours
<slangasek> doko: (done)?
<cjwatson> slangasek: apparently they only get auto-upgraded when creating a new image, not at the start of a test, so they still have the old python-apt and fail; StevenK is working on getting me new images
<doko> --
<slangasek> cjwatson: ah
<slangasek> doko: thanks :)
<slangasek>  * follow through on flashplugin multiarch support, proposing package changes to auto-upgrade users to the i386 package for natty->oneiric; ran afoul of a remaining apt multiarch bug
<slangasek>  * found some aptdaemon multiarch bugs, which mvo has now fixed
<slangasek>  * fixing some startup-related bugs in nfs-utils
<slangasek>  * qemu-linaro updated packaging, will look for an FFe (fixes FTBFS)
<slangasek>  * fixed some of the FTBFS bugs
<slangasek>  * sponsored ibus update for CJK issues
<slangasek>  * helping a bit with NBS now
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek> any questions on anything above?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<meetingology> TOPIC: Bugs
 * slangasek hands the mic to bdmurray 
<bdmurray> So we've had some new mostly installer related bugs coming in
<bdmurray> like bug 830940
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 830940 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Where are you: No location selected by default" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/830940
<bdmurray> and a couple of others which have been assigned to ev
<ev> yeah, on my list
<bdmurray> Also I was looking at bug 831752 yesterday and wanted to make sure I was testing it right
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 831752 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "Command-line Install on Minimal CD tries to boot graphically" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/831752
<cjwatson> I looked at a couple of them but they mostly seemed to be to do with the PyGI migration, and I don't have much experience with that yet
<cjwatson> bdmurray: that sounds like the right test
<bdmurray> cjwatson: okay thanks
<bdmurray> Generally speaking with bugs I've been making some good progress with ubiquity bug reports
<bdmurray> http://people.canonical.com/~brian/complete-graphs/ubiquity/plots/ubiquity-halfyear-triaging.png
<bdmurray> Where I've been creating a duplicate signature using information in the syslog
<slangasek> \o/
<bdmurray> and then doing some manual consolidation.  However, I'd like to talk to ev and or cjwatson about this to make sure my logic is sound and get it into the apport package hook for ubiquity
<bdmurray> and also to find out how to work with the GrubInstaller failure failures
<bdmurray> So could we talk after the meeting?
<ev> sure
<bdmurray> okay thanks, that is all I have
<slangasek> thanks, Brian
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Beta
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Beta
<meetingology> TOPIC: Beta
<slangasek> so we haven't talked a whole lot about milestoned bugs lately... but the list for beta-1 is kinda long, so I thought I would draw your attention to it
<slangasek> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+bugs?field.milestone=39143
<slangasek> many of these are for other teams, but there's definitely some work for us to do on there
<slangasek> (bdmurray: I guess there's no good way to filter that for bugs on packages we care about until we have structural subscriber exposed?)
<bdmurray> slangasek: there is probably a way now ;-)
<cjwatson> I'll need to have another look at the grub/LVM bug this week, I guess; it was opaque to me last time I looked
<bdmurray> slangasek: using the API though
<slangasek> bdmurray: ah, ok
<slangasek> I'll have a look at the sqlite one
<slangasek> I loves me some demotions
<cjwatson> ev: do you want me to take bug 420080, since you have a lot of ubiquity bugs?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 420080 in partman-crypto (Ubuntu) "Configure encrypted volumes destroys existing data" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/420080
<slangasek> (things you don't want to hear your manager say, #62)
<cjwatson> (not that I'm looking forward to it)
<ev> cjwatson: please do
<ev> thanks
<cjwatson> I'm generally churning through build failures as time permits
<cjwatson> I'm mostly using https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-11.10-beta-1 - it doesn't show the package, and has invalid and fixed bugs, but it does show the assignee which I find handy
<slangasek> ev: bug #825786 needs fixed ASAP, it will cause upgrade problems for just about everyone running oneiric; will you get to that today, or shall I take it?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 825786 in gst-plugins-bad0.10 (Ubuntu Oneiric) "package gstreamer0.10-camerabin (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstcamerabin.so', which is also in package gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad 0.10.22-2ubuntu1" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/825786
<ev> slangasek: already uploaded
<slangasek> ah
<ev> oh, maybe not
<ev> this looks different
<slangasek> yes, this is because you moved another file between packages, the Breaks/Replaces version needs bumped in -good
<slangasek> mvo: do I remember correctly that you said DonKult had a fix for bug #802901?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 802901 in apt (Ubuntu Oneiric) ""E: Internal Error, Could not early remove linux-libc-dev" in multiarch chroot" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/802901
<ev> slangasek: oh, I just bumped that with the previous upload this morning
<mvo>  slangasek: let me double check but I think I uploaded a fix for this already
<mvo> yeah, pointing to debian instead of LP for the bug
<mvo> sorry for that, set to fix-released
<slangasek> ev: ah, ok - thanks, closing
<slangasek> hmm, I guess the bug reported there actually *was* the earlier issue... ohwell, all fixed now
<ev> sure thing
<slangasek> so yeah, then there are a whole bunch of build failures on the list if people want to help out with those :)
<slangasek> any other comments on beta bugs?
<cjwatson> mostly just OMG
 * slangasek nods
<cjwatson> normally they're mostly desktop, but in this case there are a lot on our list
<slangasek> seems a lot of that is due to more aggressive targeting of bug reports?
<cjwatson> that may be, especially build failures
<slangasek> at least we'll keep busy :)
<cjwatson> oh, yes, can somebody take bug 575469?  it's assigned to Surbhi
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 575469 in friendly-recovery (Ubuntu Oneiric) "recovery mode mounts filesystems read-write rather than read-only" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/575469
<slangasek> stgraber: can you take that?
<cjwatson> may need some thought on how to deal gracefully with recovery menu items that require RW
<stgraber> slangasek: yeah, I'm not too familiar with friendly-recovery but I'm happy to take it, as long as it's not expected to be fixed by beta1.
<slangasek> stgraber: targeted to beta-1 currently, but it's medium - don't sweat it if it slips
<stgraber> slangasek: ok. I'll "try" to have a look next week, worst case I'll definitely have time for it post-beta1
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<meetingology> TOPIC: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<mvo> I'm on vacation next week and the week after just, just FYI
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> I'm on vacation myself the week after next
 * doko should plan for vacation too ...
<slangasek> wandering around France and England
<ev> going to be in london at all?
<mvo> slangasek: sounds nice!
<slangasek> ev: only for transit connections :)
<ev> heh, fair enough
<slangasek> mvo: my first time visiting France (instead of passing through) in 15 years... my French is a little rusty :)
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology is the new Mootbot https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Aug 24 15:44:23 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot . (v 0.1.4)
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-08-24-15.02.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks, guys
<stgraber> thanks7
<mvo> thanks
<jhunt_> thanks
<mvo> slangasek: heh :) a good time to unrust it then
<slangasek> yep :)
<hggdh_> OK. I am late for the Quality meeting, sorry
<hggdh_> so who is present?
<nuclearbob> Max Brustkern, I'm new
<gema> o/ (not for very long)
<hggdh_> pedro_, bdmurray, Ursinha?
<hggdh_> let's get it on
<bdmurray> hggdh_: hello
<hggdh_> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Aug 24 17:12:51 2011 UTC.  The chair is hggdh_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Useful Commands: #topic #action #link #idea #voters #vote #chair #action #agreed #help #info #endmeeting.
<hggdh_> OK. I am sorry for the delay, I had the wrong schedule in front of me
<hggdh_> So.
<hggdh_> [TOPIC] Previous Actions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Previous Actions
<meetingology> TOPIC: Previous Actions
<hggdh_> I am not aware of any previous pending actions. Please correct me if needed
<hggdh_> 3
<hggdh_> 2
<hggdh_> 1
<hggdh_> [TOPIC] Community Efforts/Testing
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Community Efforts/Testing
<meetingology> TOPIC: Community Efforts/Testing
<hggdh_> The only point I have here is that we are approaching Beta 1 week, and all help will be extremely welcome
<hggdh_> we will need testers for all official variants of Ubuntu, and some of the not-so-official ;-)
<hggdh_> please do help. Visit http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com for details on the tests we will have to run
<hggdh_> any comments?
<zeedune> Georg here, also new to this. So is ISO testing the top prio?
<charlie-tca> o/
<hggdh_> zeedune: daily testing on the updated images is always welcome. But milestone testing has a special urgency, given the few days we have to perform all tests
<charlie-tca> If the images do not get tested, the Beta1 does not get released for that flavor
<charlie-tca> hggdh_: beta1 testing starts Tuesday?
<hggdh_> charlie-tca: we hope so, yes
<hggdh_> from Tuesday to part-Thursday
<charlie-tca> For those not aware of it, this cycle there is a new policy in place. Any image that is not tested for each milestone does not get released for that milestone
<zeedune> How do I tell the daily builds apart from the beta1 ones? Or will all daily build after Tuesday be beta1?
<hggdh_> when we reach the milestone, the image is not changed unless a critical bug is corrected
<charlie-tca> We do plan on images starting Tuesday being beta1, yes. since it is a milestone, they might be the same images for three days, but they can also change every couple of hours
<bdmurray> so they are candidates for beta1
<hggdh_> but, apart from that, there is no difference
<hggdh_> yes
<zeedune> ok
<hggdh_> additionally, we will have the Global Jam following the Beta 1 milestone: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGlobalJam
<charlie-tca> zeedune: We keep in contact during the milestone testing in #ubunhtu-testing
<hggdh_> and on the Global Jam we will also have testing activities (but not milestoned)
<hggdh_> any other comments/views?
<hggdh_> 3
<hggdh_> 2
<zeedune> Ok, I'll make sure to stay logged in to the #ubuntu-testing channel
<hggdh_> 1
<hggdh_> [TOPIC] Automated/Systems Testing
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Automated/Systems Testing
<meetingology> TOPIC: Automated/Systems Testing
<hggdh_> so moving on. Ursinha does not seem to be present.
<gema> the only thing I have to report is that I have started working on improving the ubiquity testing for better coverage
<hggdh_> perfect
 * hggdh_ has never used ubiquity...
<gema> I can tell from the bugs :)
<gema> nothing else
<gema> ..
<hggdh_> pedro_: ?
<pedro_> yes? :-)
<hggdh_> heh
<pedro_> nothing much to share from here, still catching up from last week :-P
<hggdh_> OK
<pedro_> so sorry no bug day for this week
<hggdh_> no problem :-)
<hggdh_> bdmurray: you, sir
<bdmurray> So of particular interest is the following - I've setup a cronjob of search-bugs (finding reported bugs matching a bug pattern) that'll consolidate new duplicates
<bdmurray> This is necessary due to some short comings in apport
<bdmurray> I also updated firefox-lp-improvements for the new version of firefox
<hggdh_> this consolidation, is it automagic?
<bdmurray> and then I created a bug bot function to detect hardware errors for /, /var, or /usr partitions resulting in an apport-package bug report
<bdmurray> hggdh_: yes, it confirms and adds a comment and marks as a duplicate if the bug matches a bug pattern
<hggdh_> fantastic...
<bdmurray> and with that bug bot functions I've invalidated some more bug reports
<hggdh_> making a sizeable dent on the open bugs, I hope...
<bdmurray> well 30 is a small percentage but its more than 0
<hggdh_> :-)
<bdmurray> 30 bugs that is
<hggdh_> better than none :-)
<bdmurray> There might be some more hiding so I'll look harder for that needle
<bdmurray> that's all
<hggdh_> thank you
<hggdh_> Moving on
<hggdh_> [TOPIC] Odds & Ends
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Odds & Ends
<meetingology> TOPIC: Odds & Ends
<hggdh_> I will start this one
<hggdh_> I would like to welcome nuclearbob (Max) to the QA team. He started this last Monday, and we hope he will solve all our issues
<nuclearbob> yeah, I'm closing the last bugs now, we can all go home
<hggdh_> :-)
<charlie-tca> w00t!
<charlie-tca> Thanks
<pedro_> welcome nuclearbob :-)
<bdmurray> I am home ;-)
<nuclearbob> me too
<charlie-tca> Welcome to this fun world of QA, nuclearbob
<hggdh_> additionally, I would like to remind all that we now have Jenkins available publicly, at https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/
<hggdh_> the code that run the tests is on Launchpad: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server-iso-testing-dev/ubuntu-server-iso-testing/trunk
<hggdh_> everybody is welcome to add new tests/correct as needed. Just propose a merge against the branch above
<hggdh_> ..
<hggdh_> so, with my announcements done, anyone wishes to add anything else
<hggdh_> ?
<hggdh_> OK
<hggdh_> [TOPIC] Next Chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Next Chair
<meetingology> TOPIC: Next Chair
<hggdh_> on the absence of self-proposals, I will 'shuf -e charlie-tca patrickmw pedro_ bdmurray jibel Ursinha nuclearbob | head 1'
<hggdh_> oh, add gema to the list above
<hggdh_> and...
<hggdh_> PEDRO_!
<pedro_> woo
<charlie-tca> yay, pedro_
<pedro_> it was time :-)
<hggdh_> [ACTION] pedro_ to chair next meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: pedro_ to chair next meeting
<hggdh_> you know, I do like this shuf thingie
<hggdh_> mostly when I do it, my nick is not there
<pedro_> lol
<hggdh_> all right.
<hggdh_> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology is the new Mootbot https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Aug 24 17:36:27 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot . (v 0.1.4)
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-08-24-17.12.moin.txt
<pedro_> thanks for chairing hggdh_
<charlie-tca> Thank you, hggdh_
<hggdh_> folks, thank you all very much
<charlie-tca> thought I was gonna miss this, but it worked out
<hggdh_> yeah, I was wondering about you
<hggdh_> and worried
<charlie-tca> still going
<hggdh_> :-)
<charlie-tca> I even managed to learn how to use that shuf thing now :)
<Ursinha> hmm, I could swear I was here
<hggdh_> Ursinha: now you certainly is (or was) ;-)
<hggdh_> urgh! you certainly are (or were)
<Ursinha> hggdh_: yeah .. :)
 * hggdh_ goes bang his head on a wall for a bit
<charlie-tca> heh
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-08-25
<rix1234>  How to enable a smart card on linux. i am using Aladdin etoken 72K, can anyone plz help me...
<holstein> hey rix1234
<holstein> let me point you to #ubuntu or #ubuntu-beginners
<davmor2> rix1234: you'll need #ubuntu for general help this channel is just for meetings they should be able to help you there
<davmor2> holstein: nice you beat me to it :)
<holstein> davmor2: :)
<ogra_> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Aug 25 15:00:05 2011 UTC.  The chair is ogra_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Useful Commands: #topic #action #link #idea #voters #vote #chair #action #agreed #help #info #endmeeting.
 * davidm waves
<ogra_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/Meeting/2011/20110825
<ogra_> whistle if you are here
<ppisati> fiiiiiiiiiiii
<ppisati> :)
<ogra_> :)
 * NCommander lags
<ogra_> do we have persia ?
 * ogra_ guesses not
<ogra_> hmm, silly bot, the old one just picked up my links
<ogra_> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/Meeting/2011/20110825
<ogra_> or not :P
<ogra_> anyway
<ogra_> there are no action items from last meeting \o/
<ogra_> (how could that ahppen ? )
<ogra_> [topic] standing items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: standing items
<meetingology> TOPIC: standing items
 * cmagina waves
<janimo> i
<janimo> hi
<ogra_> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-arm.html
<ogra_> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel-ubuntu-11.10-beta-1.html
<ogra_> pfft, why do i even try :P
<ogra_> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-arm-ubuntu-11.10-beta-1.html
<ogra_> the latter one was indeed wrong
<ogra_> so beta freeze is today
<NCommander> poke me for any ffes you may need
<ogra_> we need to see that we get all items sorted on the second tracker soon
<ogra_> mainly its GrueMaster, jani and me who still have open items
<GrueMaster> So of course this means major pool churn until Monday.
<ogra_> oh, indeed, even server images might fail the next days :)
<NCommander> ugh
<infinity> Meh.  It happens.
<ogra_> sure
<GrueMaster> As to the tracker, the link you posted shows no progress, when 5 of my WI are done.
<ogra_> and its expected at such days
<NCommander> soneed archive skew fixed
<ogra_> GrueMaster, which one ? note the ubuntu-armel one is obsolete
<ogra_> i mis-pasted that one from the wiki
<GrueMaster> ah
<NCommander> we should probably use statis.u.c
<NCommander> er status
<ogra_> thats why i pasted an updated version below ;)
<ogra_> NCommander, is everything sorted with it ?
<ogra_> i thought there were still issues with cross team statuses
<NCommander> it ahould be fine
<ogra_> well, feel free for next meeting then ;)
<ogra_> it surely looks tons better
<GrueMaster> Since none of my work items require code checkin, I am just going to keep plugging away.
<ogra_> cool
<ogra_> GrueMaster, anything we could help you with (apart from finishing our own items indeed)
<ogra_> ?
<GrueMaster> Some of my WI require work from you, so yes.
<ogra_> beyond that ... you still have 8 items, can we share something to idling team members i mean :)
<janimo> I took one of GrueMaster's WI which luckily may get solved differently. we'll see
<GrueMaster> Also, I found a test suite for ipv6, but it is for FreeBSD and won't compile on Linux in its current form.  mahmoh was going to look at it, but that was a few weeks ago.
<ogra_> right, i took two recently, but thats trivial stuff and not closely bound to freezes
<cmagina> GrueMaster: could you point me at that test?
<davidm> GrueMaster, if need be postpone IVP6 testing as blocked on test porting
<GrueMaster> davidm: It is currently marked as blocked.
<davidm> GrueMaster, good enough
<ogra_> anything else about WIs ?
<GrueMaster> cmagina: I'll find the link and shoot it your way.
<cmagina> GrueMaster: thanks
<ogra_> or can i move to server ?
<ogra_> moving on ...
<ogra_> .
<ogra_> .
<ogra_> .
<ogra_> [topic] ARM Server Status (NCommander, Daviey)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Server Status (NCommander, Daviey)
<meetingology> TOPIC: ARM Server Status (NCommander, Daviey)
<GrueMaster> cmagina: http://www.tahi.org/release/
<NCommander> not muchto report on my end
<ogra_> NCommander, Daviey ?
<ogra_> well, i know Daviey had issues with qemu the last week
<ogra_> trying to get cloud images running
<ogra_> NCommander, they will likely use omap i guess and might need to learn how to create the vfat (or where to steal a working one that can boot a cloud instance)
<NCommander> I am pretty happy with our.progress. there is still some research into openstack that I need to look at
<ogra_> since the beagle emulation literally emulates a beagle ... (so you need a partitioned Sd image, not just an img and vmlinuz)
<ogra_> i think we need to provide some help here since we know that stuff
<ogra_> anything else for server ?
<NCommander> yeah thats a headache sinceour preinstalls wont work right
<NCommander> nothing else
<ogra_> moving on
<ogra_> .
<ogra_> .
<ogra_> .
<ogra_> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Kernel Status (cooloney, ppisati)
<meetingology> TOPIC: Kernel Status (cooloney, ppisati)
<ppisati> For every arm flavour but natty/ti-omap4 an update should be on its way out. The updated kernels mainly contain CVEs fix.
<ogra_> awesome
<ppisati> On the other hand, work continues on lp709245: found a patchset that should enable localtimers even in the nosmp case but it doesn't work out of the box, and i'm debugging it ATM.
<ppisati> i might say that now i know why it doesn't work, and IMO it should work at all
<ogra_> i was pinged about sound status on omap4, but cant tell much about it atm
<ppisati> (in fact the patchset has not been pulled in rmk patch system...)
<ogra_> GrueMaster, did you test any sound related stuff recently ?
<ppisati> dunno, should ask the TI guy tomorrow
<GrueMaster> Not since A3.
<ogra_> i'm nmot sure we have all necessary patches in 3.0yet
<rsalveti> only thing that's kind of also related with the kernel
<rsalveti> we need to get the sound working this time!
<rsalveti> :-)
<ogra_> ppisati, well, TI was among the ones asking :)
<ppisati> ah
<ppisati> nice :)
<ogra_> rsalveti, please !!!!!!!!!!
<ppisati> but, do they get sound working?
<ogra_> :)
<rsalveti> need to sync with alsa ucm configs and also the kernel
<ogra_> dunno, we definitely need to check our sound stack though
<ppisati> perhaps iot's just a pulseaudio problem
<ogra_> pulse changed and might expect bits from the kernel we dont have atm
<ppisati> actually the problem one month ago was that
<rsalveti> yeah, should be good to sync with agreen to see if he's planning to merge anything new related with sound
<ppisati> when pulseaudio opened some devices and tried some ioctls
<ppisati> the devices didn't answer as pulseauydio expected si
<ppisati> so
<ppisati> instead of sleeping or dying or whatever
<ogra_> well, we dont need to work out the fix right now :)
<ppisati> he kept triyng to re-open the device and reissue the same ioctls over and over again
<ogra_> just everybody keep an ear open for sound stuff :)
<rsalveti> yeah
<ppisati> result? 100% busy cpu
<ogra_> i'll run around and poke people the next week
<ppisati> i repeat, perhaps it's a pulseaudio problem
<ppisati> can't we kill it? no eh? :)
<ogra_> about the ac100 kernel, it seems there are suspend fixes that partially work on some devices .... but seems there was also instability added to the tree since my last checkout for the ubuntu package
<ogra_> ppisati, no, we cant, gnome depends on it in some ways
<janimo> ogra_, suspend does not work for me with the new marvin kernel
<janimo> it is still less than a week old patchset
<ppisati> ogra_: i was kidding :)
<ogra_> janimo, thats why i said  partially work on some devices :)
<ogra_> well, indeed i would like to have the latest and greatest in the archive by release :)
<ogra_> anyway, just a short ac100 status
<ogra_> anything else for kernel ?
<ppisati> not from me
<rsalveti> anything for the mx5 one?
<rsalveti> or is it working well?
<janimo> ogra, we have almost 2 months till release, so we may get that. It is not a critical platfrom so we can still update after the freeze
<ogra_> no, we need a metapackage name change
<janimo> mx5 indeed needs a new metapackage from jcrigby , ogra should know the new name :)
<ogra_> janimo, indeed, its in universe, but i'd like to stick to release schedule if possible
<rsalveti> ok, doesn't seems too complicated :-)
<ogra_> right
<rsalveti> ogra_: can you sync with jcrigby later?
<ogra_> needs to be linux-linaro-lt-mx5
<ogra_> yup, he pinged me in #uarm already
<GrueMaster> The MX image is a little more critical than we give it.  With that image, the kubuntu team can do more testing in-house.  Right now, they rely on me to do release testing.
<rsalveti> great :-)
<infinity> ogra_: Eh?  The metapackage was named correctly...
<infinity> ogra_: Wasn't it?
<ogra_> GrueMaster, if it works on the efikas :)
<ogra_> infinity, l-b looks for linux-linaro-lt-mx5
<infinity> ogra_: Yes... And what's it called now?
<ogra_> which is right if -linaro belongs to the flavour
<infinity> (it does)
<ogra_> linux-image-linaro-lt-mx5
<ogra_> there is no actual meta
<ogra_> only the linux-image one
<infinity> ogra_: Oh, the image one is correct.
<infinity> You just mean he's missing the higher level one.
<ogra_> right, and the meta is missing
<infinity> Fair enough.
<ogra_> trivial addition to debian/control
<infinity> Yeah.
<ogra_> anyway
<ogra_> moving on ...
<ogra_> .
<infinity> Carry on.
<ogra_> .
<ogra_> .
<jcrigby> so ogra just send me an email with addition, ok?
<ogra_> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
<meetingology> TOPIC: ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
<ogra_> jcrigby, np
<janimo> infinity, great job on ocaml transition
<janimo> I did a few uploiads and give backs
<janimo> and assigned likewise-open to the uploader :)
<ogra_> yeah, he spammed my changes inbox like mad
<ogra_> lol
<ogra_> poor package ... noone loves it
<janimo> I thought there's a company behind, not sure why it does not get love
<ogra_> btw, is anybody watchiong the rebuild test results ?
<NCommander> likewise open breaks ecery cycle and it annoys me to fiz it
<GrueMaster> So fix it, don't fiz it.  :P
<ogra_> empathy breaks the images btw
<infinity> s/empathy/tp-glib/
<ogra_> GrueMaster, well, he could fiz it but onyl with some gin
<infinity> Which is s/tp-glib/lp-buildd/
<ogra_> (i know, really bad pun)
<ogra_> did anyone ever look at scribus ?
<infinity> I'll look at the lp-buildd bug today and sort out if it's worth my time to keep patching testsuite timeouts or just fix launchpad.
<NCommander> .........
<ogra_> it seems to sit there forever, or does it just show up over and over ?
<infinity> it?
<ogra_> scribus
<ogra_> i dont look that often at ftbfs anymore but it feels like its on there every time i look
<janimo> ogra_, I looked at scribus last cycle and sent a large patch upstream
<ogra_> there being http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/ftbfs/
<janimo> it may still languish in their trac, and not even apply anymore
<ogra_> hmm, and libreoffice is unhappy too it seems
<doko> ogra this one is fixed in the queue
<NCommander> ugh ..
<ogra_> phew
<rsalveti> for the rebuild http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20110819-oneiric.html
<ogra_> anything else for ftbfs ? doko ? anything to add wrt rebuild ?
<janimo> expect more breakage I guess :)
<ogra_> ah, ricardo is to fast :)
<ogra_> well, if there is nothing else, i'll move on
<ogra_> .
<ogra_> .
<ogra_> .
<rsalveti> move
<ogra_> [topic] http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/ftbfs/
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/ftbfs/
<meetingology> TOPIC: http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/ftbfs/
<ogra_> err
<ogra_> grrr
<doko> ogra_, it would be nice if somebody could file the bug reports for arm ...
<ogra_> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<meetingology> TOPIC: ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<ogra_> doko, why not just fix them :)
<rsalveti> doko: I'm planning to go over that list, file bugs if needed and put the porting-queue tag
<doko> http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20110819-oneiric.html
<rsalveti> so we can have more people looking at them during the linaro porting jam
<ogra_> good idea
<ogra_> k, image status ...
<janimo> I think we need to set aside a spec next cycle for doing infrastructure work. It is such a waste to manually handle all these breakages. There may exist half-decent sccripts but they are not widely used
<ogra_> janimo did a bunch of work on the mx5 ones :)
<janimo> s/bunch of work/bunch of uploads/
<ogra_> i spent nearly all week on debian-cd to add fixes, our code was really badly not designed for more than omap actually
<doko> ogra_, did the lo one, where is your fix? ;-P
<ogra_> heh
<janimo> rsalveti, jcrigby want to bring up the issue of uboot+SPL replacing xloader for our images, sooner rather than later
<ogra_> our download pages have changed a bit, please take a look at cdimage on the preinstalled images and tell me what still needs changing
<janimo> they say new uboot needs pushing in the archive and we need to switch the images over if possible simultaneously
<ogra_> ah, right, SPL and u-boot
<ogra_> wont be possible i guess
<rsalveti> yeah, we switched to spl for 11.08
<ogra_> but in a close window will
<janimo> but if we expect breakage for a few days anyway they could just go in now :)
<rsalveti> quite well tested, working fine
<rsalveti> yeah, today is the deadline
<ogra_> janimo, if you dont want mx5 images :P
<ogra_> i still need a working cdimage/debian cd atm
<rsalveti> jcrigby can push the package today, but will break omap 4 images
<janimo> well I want them, won't this only possibly break omap targets?
<ogra_> omap3 too, no ?
<rsalveti> ogra_: not for now
<ogra_> ah, k
<rsalveti> currently only for omap 4
<janimo> I hope our targets are well separated enough so we can break one without the other
<ogra_> well, if its only omap4, then go for it, but i'm swamped tomorrow
<ogra_> so someone else with antimony access needs to handle that
<rsalveti> should be a simple change
<ogra_> it wont
<rsalveti> why not?
<ogra_> its a change that has to happen in multiple places
<rsalveti> yeah, true =\
<janimo> ogra_, I can look at the omap4 and add a pull request unless infinity or NCommander want to add it. I hope I'll get it right in at most 3 trials
<ogra_> starting at d-i, over flash-kernel to debian-cd and cdimage
<janimo> shudder
<ogra_> there is likely even more duplicated code in other places i dont remember atm
<GrueMaster> This close to beta, maybe we should wait until after next week.
<ogra_> janimo, yeah, preferably we should have something like flash-kernel-installer thats re-used everywhere
<janimo> even debian-cd has uboot referenes?
<ogra_> janimo, the boot and post-boot scripts
<janimo> oh, I thought that was cdimage
<janimo> I keep confusing these two
<janimo> rsalveti, is the new uboot package not a drop in replacement for the exising one? What happens if xloader is installed too?
<janimo> still I think we can and should do this before beta
<janimo> I can look at the uboot/omap4 thing
<rsalveti> janimo: it's fine to install both at the rootfs
<ogra_> well, skaet, around ?
<ogra_> any opinion ?
<rsalveti> you just need to copy the right MLO for the first partition
<skaet> ogra_, yup
<ogra_> wer will likely need a good bunch of freeze exceptions for that
<janimo> rsalveti, ah, because xloader cannot load new uboot?
<NCommander> I also agree with before beta so wr can maximize testing
<rsalveti> janimo: no :-(
<janimo> NCommander, says he approves FFes so we're fine
<janimo> rsalveti, that's ok. As long as we know it
<janimo> :)
<rsalveti> janimo: :-)
<NCommander> fiine the bug and I will.ack
<NCommander> file even
<ogra_> he will only fiine it if you then fiz it :P
<ogra_> k, lets unleash GrueMaster  ....
<ogra_> moving on
<NCommander> :-p
<ogra_> .
<ogra_> .
<ogra_> .
<ogra_> [topic] QA GrueMaster mahmoh
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: QA GrueMaster mahmoh
<meetingology> TOPIC: QA GrueMaster mahmoh
 * GrueMaster ... unleashed.
<GrueMaster> Currently, I am stuck on iSCSI implementation.  Trying to reproduce on x86.
<GrueMaster> Will set it aside today, so I can get other things working (clusterFS, LAVA, etc).
<GrueMaster> Bug #806751 still hounds me, even though others seem to think it is invalid.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 806751 in debian-installer (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Boot partition on SD is too small on omap/omap4" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/806751
<GrueMaster> Until it is fixed, I can not use the boot.img-[serial|fat] images, and netboot has to be very manual (format partition, copy files manually).
<ogra_> to be honest i dont get why its invalid
<ogra_> dont we have a rule that invalid bugs need a comment when invalidated ?
<GrueMaster> I don't either.  But every time I hit it and refile, it gets marked invalid and disappears.
<GrueMaster> Yes.
<ogra_> davidm, ^^^ you set it to invalid, why did  you ?
<NCommander> its incalid because the partitiooner ahohld be recreating the vfat blob. I havent had an opportunity to properly fix it
<ogra_> and then it gets invalidated ?
<GrueMaster> If it isn't fixed, it isn't invalid.  Fix it and mark the bug "Fix Released".
 * ogra_ doesnt get that ... its simply not fixed, leave it alone if you dont find the time, but dont inavliadte it
<NCommander> ugh Ineed a new keyboard
<ogra_> same here, though i'm sitting in the garden, balancing the ac100 on a knee ... :)
<NCommander> no the.bug.is guided partitioning doesnt work which.is filed
<davidm> NCommander, said it was invalid, if it's not then lets set it correctly and contiue but fix it this week
<GrueMaster> If the bug needs to point to a different package, let me know.  I can reassign appropriately.
<ogra_> NCommander, then its a duplicate
<ogra_> so it should be duplicated
<ogra_> not invalidated
<NCommander> no its a non issue. it should be set to wont fix
<ogra_> guided is the default on server too, right ?
<NCommander> yes
<ogra_> then thats even high
<ogra_> (critical in arm only POV)
<NCommander> and there is a seperate bug on itvwhich os high
<ogra_> why should it be wontfix if its actually a different issue you can duplicate to ?
<ogra_> just add a duplicate and be done :)
<NCommander> fine. change it. its not worse the arguement
<NCommander> worth
<ogra_> else you have tobin opening it over and over, getting annoyed every time
<GrueMaster> The bug should only be invalid if it is inappropriately assigned to the wrong package, like if I had assigned it to pulseaudio.
<ogra_> whats the master bug # ?
<ogra_> anyway, lest move, time runs out and i have an AOB bit
<NCommander> lp on this link is a bad idea. action me tovdupe it
<ogra_> moving on ...
<ogra_> .
<ogra_> .
<ogra_> .
<ogra_> [topic] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<meetingology> TOPIC: AOB
<skaet> just a reminder we'll be entering beta freeze at 2100 UTC
<infinity> (in 5 hours)
<ogra_> [action] NCommander to duplicate 806751 to the right masterbug
<meetingology> ACTION: NCommander to duplicate 806751 to the right masterbug
<GrueMaster> So sayeth the master of all.
<GrueMaster> (referring to skaet).
<ogra_> yeah, get your stuff in everyone (me included) !!!!
<skaet> yes please.
<ogra_> so, i'm using unity-2d on arm every day, recently we switched to unityÃ¶-greeter on lightdm, that results in UI response times of 1-2sec for a keystroke etc
<ogra_> i talked to seb about that today and he sees no issue with that, people should have more powerful HW if they use unity-greeter
<GrueMaster> wow.  Such a non-answer.
<ogra_> so i think we need to test that a bit deeper, my only experience is on ac100 where the UI is totally unusable
<ogra_> his suggestion was to use the gtk greeter instead on all arm images
<infinity> If that's the default, that answer doesn't work even for x86...
<ogra_> i was referring to vesa ...
<GrueMaster> I'll try to get some desktop testing in today or tomorrow.
<ogra_> as well as to framebuffer
<ogra_> good
<GrueMaster> I can test it in an x86 VM.
<ogra_> if we need to do anything about it, we should know as early as possible
<ogra_> i was just very surprised about that attitude ...
<ogra_> thats all from me
<ogra_> anything else for AOB
<ogra_> ?
<infinity> jcrigby: It would take me as long to write a patch as to just upload linux-meta-whatever.  Mind if I just upload the mx5 meta fix, and you can pick it up from the archive? :)
<janimo> reminds me of the good old days of gnome needing lots of RAM and saying those library dependencies are just fine
<ogra_> hehe
<ogra_> yeah
<janimo> then the whole mobile craze made that suddenly an issue for them too
<ogra_> k, doesnt seem like there is anything else
<ogra_> closing
<ogra_> going once
<ogra_> going twice
<ogra_> sold to the woman with the whip
<ogra_> #ednmeeting
<ogra_> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology is the new Mootbot https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Aug 25 16:00:34 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot . (v 0.1.4)
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-08-25-15.00.moin.txt
<jcrigby> infinity, that is fine with me
<pitti> hello
<mdz> pitti, kees, Keybuk, ping
<pitti> hello again
<Keybuk> present
<mdz> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Aug 25 18:02:16 2011 UTC.  The chair is mdz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Useful Commands: #topic #action #link #idea #voters #vote #chair #action #agreed #help #info #endmeeting.
<mdz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<mdz> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<mdz> meetingology, you're confusing
<meetingology> mdz: Error: "you're" is not a valid command.
<mdz> meetingology, #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<meetingology> mdz: Error: "#link" is not a valid command.
<mdz> you just told me it was a useful command!
<mdz> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<charlie-tca> the links happen without feedback now
<mdz> I see
<pitti> so the [foo] syntax is gone?
<mdz> [topic] Action review
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Action review
<meetingology> TOPIC: Action review
<charlie-tca> still usable
<mdz> The only action is for cjwatson and he couldn't make it to the meeting
<pitti> ah, apparently not
<mdz> he sent in a draft of the brainstorm review topics though
<mdz> and I sent him some feedback
<pitti> he picked some interesting ones
<mdz> looked like a good list
<mdz> [topic] UDD bug spam on technical-board@ (mdz)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: UDD bug spam on technical-board@ (mdz)
<meetingology> TOPIC: UDD bug spam on technical-board@ (mdz)
<mdz> in scanning the mailing list for this meeting, I noticed there was a lot of bug spam
<pitti> ooh, yes, that's bothering
<pitti> discard_if_subject /developer-membership-board (moderator request|post)|\[Merge\]|\[Blueprint /
<pitti> discard_if_from /developer-membership-board/
<pitti> discard_if_from noreply@launchpad.net
<pitti> ^ in case it's useful for you, too
<mdz> heh
<pitti> I have that in my .listadmin
<mdz> can we fix it further upstream?
<pitti> but I don't filter the UDD bugs
<pitti> as sometimes there might be a legitimate reason to get bug mail on the list
<mdz> right
<mdz> but these bugs don't need to go out to t-b
<mdz> we're getting them because techboard is the owner of the udd team or something
<pitti> right
<pitti> I meant, there might be bugs where people subscribe the TB to
<mdz> example:
<mdz> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-August/001008.html
<mdz> You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu
<mdz> Distributed Development Developers, which is subscribed to Ubuntu
<mdz> Distributed Development.
<cjwatson> (I'm here for a bit after all, unless I get called away.)  techboard could continue to be the owner of udd without being an actual member of it
<cjwatson> I think that might fix it
<mdz> https://launchpad.net/~udd
<cjwatson> Shall I try that?
<pitti> oh, please
<cjwatson> I'm an administrator of that team independently, so I can restore the previous state if it goes wrong
<cjwatson> oh, no, I'm merely a member
 * pitti cleans the list backlog in the meantime
<mdz> currently techboard is owner and member (admin)
<cjwatson> but I'm sure that James or Martin or Robert can help if necessary
<mdz> deactivated
<cjwatson> beat me to it
<mdz> [topic] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<meetingology> TOPIC: AOB
<mdz> any other topics?
<pitti> 28.07.11 21:23 Kees Cook         Membership Council voting procedures
<pitti> is there still something to be done for this?
<mdz> [topic] Membership Council voting procedures
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Membership Council voting procedures
<meetingology> TOPIC: Membership Council voting procedures
<pitti> I missed the past few meetings due to holiday, conference, etc.
<mdz> [link] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-July/000998.html
<mdz> I only looked for items since the previous meeting
<mdz> AFAIK it is in the CC's court now
<pitti> ah, ok
<pitti> just wanted to know the current status of this
<mdz> [topic] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<meetingology> TOPIC: AOB
<cjwatson> thanks for your feedback on my brainstorm mail, mdz
<mdz> np
<cjwatson> what did you mean about "disable by default for good reasons"?  you mean not playing a login sound?
<pitti> btw, we got clearance for this for oneiric
<pitti> we'll disable it by default
<pitti> at last!
<mdz> cjwatson, I mean sounds for events in general
<cjwatson> I expect some people will still choose to turn it back on; presumably at least some of those who voted for that brainstorm item actually like having sound
<mdz> I think the login sound is the sole exception for accessibility
<mdz> pitti, oh? nice
<mdz> that makes the sound theme a niche concern IMHO
<mdz> I think most people don't turn it on
<mdz> (proof by assumption)
<pitti> or, rather, turn it off
<cjwatson> I was trying not to apply very much editorial discretion to that list, TBH; I just picked the top ten
<cjwatson> did either of you apply any manual selection before?
<mdz> cjwatson, sure, I wasn't questioning the selection
<mdz> just the suggested response type
<cjwatson> ah, I see
<cjwatson> right, you mean it's maybe not worth a big push to fix
<pitti> cjwatson: mildly; I looked at the top 15 and discarded the ones which seemed totally unrealistic
<cjwatson> ok, I can go with that
<cjwatson> it interested me that a unity lens was the top suggestion
<mdz> any other business for the meeting?
<mdz> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology is the new Mootbot https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Aug 25 18:18:07 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot . (v 0.1.4)
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-08-25-18.02.moin.txt
<mdz> thanks all
<pitti> thanks everyone, nice and short
<mdz> who chairs next?
<Keybuk> pitti alphabetically
<kees> (gah, sorry I was late^Wmissing -- car trouble)
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-08-26
 * skaet waves
 * stgraber waves
 * ogra_ shores
<skaet> looks like its about that time.
 * charlie-tca waves
<pitti> hey skaet
 * skaet is glad that the waves had somewhere to land. :)
<Daviey> o/
<ogra_> :)
<skaet> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Aug 26 15:01:10 2011 UTC.  The chair is skaet. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Useful Commands: #topic #action #link #idea #voters #vote #chair #action #agreed #help #info #endmeeting.
<skaet> [TOPIC] Release general overview - skaet
<skaet> Agenda can be found: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2011-08-26
<skaet> .
<skaet> 11.10 FeatureFreeze, BetaFreeze, UserInterfaceFreeze now in effect
<skaet> 11.10 Beta 1: Sept 1, 2011.
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release general overview - skaet
<meetingology> TOPIC: Release general overview - skaet
<skaet> .
<skaet> starting to trend about the the overall line in the burndown charts, so would appreciate it if all the teams could please review the work items and make sure the status is accurate.
<skaet> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/
<skaet> .
<skaet> lots of bugs showing up on the lists,  needing fixes.
<skaet> Please review the overall lists for the release as well as your individual team lists for bugs that may have been overlooked.
<skaet> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+bugs?field.tag=-ftbfs
<skaet> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-11.10-beta-1
<skaet> .
<skaet> Also, we're seeing some regressions that could use an extra look as well.
<skaet> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+bugs?field.tag=regression-release
<skaet> ..
<skaet> any questions?
<skaet> ok,  lets head into the round table then. :)
<skaet> [TOPIC] Hardware Certification team update - mlegris
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hardware Certification team update - mlegris
<meetingology> TOPIC: Hardware Certification team update - mlegris
<mlegris> Hi all o/
<mlegris> [Week 34 Testing Report]
<mlegris> No weekly report this week, Oneiric has broken checkbox once more :(
<mlegris> * bug #834744 (private)
<mlegris> .
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 834744 could not be found
<mlegris> Alpha 3 testing now includes servers:
<mlegris> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/oneiric-testing/oneiric_alpha3.html
<mlegris> ..
<mlegris> short and sweet :)
<skaet> thanks mlegris!   anything a blocker from your tests for b1?
<mlegris> skaet: not currently :)
<skaet> thanks! :)
<skaet> [TOPIC] QA team update -  jibel
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: QA team update -  jibel
<meetingology> TOPIC: QA team update -  jibel
<jibel> hi all !
<skaet> :)
<jibel> = B1 SmokeTest =
<jibel> * Ubuntu Desktop: Live Session, default install and OEM OK (bugs identified have been assigned and engineering teams are working on it)
<jibel> * Ubuntu Server: OK (2 failures over 24 installations due to testing environment)
<jibel> * Ubuntu Alternate: Default install, LVM, OEM OK
<jibel> Encrypted home failed: still affected by bug 827197 (linux 3.0.0-9.12 is on alternate should be .14)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 827197 in linux (Ubuntu Oneiric) "/usr/bin/ecryptfs-setup-private fails with exit status 1 during install - User's home directory not encrypted" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/827197
<jibel> (alternate lvm amd64 failed too but that looks like an infrastructure issue. QA will investigate)
<jibel> * Wubi: OK
<jibel> * Upgrade: Testing in progress (blocker was bug 828759)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 828759 in at-spi2-core (Ubuntu Oneiric) "package ubuntu-desktop 1.240 failed to install/upgrade: ErrorMessage: dependency problems - leaving unconfigured" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/828759
<jibel> = Bug Activity =
<jibel> * New bugs opened during last week (no dups): 1495(+276.57 % over previous week)
<cjwatson> jibel: 827197> oh, right, I'll kick a d-i rebuild
<jibel> blame pitti about the impressive increase of bug report.
<jibel> he fixed the retracers
<skaet> :)
 * pitti whistles innocently
<jibel>   * unity: 108 (7.22%)
<jibel>   * gnome-settings-daemon: 73 (4.88%)
<jibel>   * compiz: 41 (2.74%)
<jibel>   * unity-2d: 31 (2.07%)
<jibel>   * empathy: 30 (2.01%)
<jibel> that was the top 5 packages with most bugs
<jibel> * 41 reports are regressions. Top 3 are
<jibel>   * unity: 15
<jibel>   * compiz: 13
<jibel>   * ubiquity: 6
<jibel> * Top 3 packages with High/Critical bugs opened and reported this week:
<jibel>   * ubiquity: 8
<jibel>   * compiz: 6
<jibel>   * unity: 5
<jibel> * Top 3 crashers of the week:
<jibel>   * unity: 30 (27.78 %)
<jibel>   * software-center: 17 (65.38 %)
<jibel>   * gnome-settings-daemon: 16 (21.92 %)
<jibel> * Top 3 packages that need triage (based on the number of untouched reports)
<jibel>   * unity: 27 (25.00 %)
<jibel>   * software-center: 11 (42.31 %)
<jibel>   * update-manager: 7 (38.89 %)
<jibel> QA team is on track for B1 testing next week.
<jibel> ..
 * skaet figures njpatel, dbarth and team will be busy this week... 
<jibel> any question/comment ?
<skaet> Thanks jibel!
<skaet> interesting stats,  couple of interesting ones to look at beyond the expected too.  :)
<skaet> [TOPIC] Security team update - jdstrand
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Security team update - jdstrand
<meetingology> TOPIC: Security team update - jdstrand
<jdstrand> hello
<skaet> hello
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<jdstrand> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/canonical-security.html
<jdstrand> We are still on track for our assigned work items in our blueprints as can be seen in our trend line. Most of the remaining work items are either not tied to the release or are bug fixes.
<jdstrand> Looking at the list of oneiric bugs, the only bug worth highlighting is bug #834788. This was reported on oss-security earlier this week, but I just now created the bug. I did not milestone it, but did target it to Oneiric.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 834788 in lightdm (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Security issues in lightdm" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/834788
<jdstrand> ..
<skaet> thanks jdstrand!   Will add that lightdm one to my list.
<skaet> any questions?
<jdstrand> skaet: thanks
<skaet> [TOPIC] Kernel team update - ogasawara
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Kernel team update - ogasawara
<meetingology> TOPIC: Kernel team update - ogasawara
<skaet> hmm... must be IRC lag,  usually ogasawara has it all pasted by now... ;)
<skaet> ok, will move on, and come back later if she shows up.
<skaet> [TOPIC] Foundations team update - cjwatson
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Foundations team update - cjwatson
<meetingology> TOPIC: Foundations team update - cjwatson
<cjwatson> Bug status:
<cjwatson>  * Bug 420080: In progress - will involve a little bit of extra UI, but only in the case that currently involves possible data loss so this seems a good tradeoff.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 420080 in partman-crypto (Ubuntu) "Configure encrypted volumes destroys existing data" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/420080
<cjwatson>  * Bug 644198: Bumped to beta 2, per Evan.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 644198 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Ubuntu LIve Cd does not enable bluetooth before choice menu in live-cd" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/644198
<cjwatson>  * Bug 653571: This will just involve bumping the timeout.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 653571 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Oneiric) "ubiquity crashed with DBusException in call_blocking() when the option "Install 3rd party software" is checked." [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/653571
<cjwatson>  * Bug 702283: It's not clear whether this will be feasible for Oneiric - but it's Medium, not milestoned, and not a regression from Natty.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 702283 in usb-creator (Ubuntu) "usb-creator doesn't create EFI-bootable USB sticks" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/702283
<cjwatson>  * Bug 745960: No progress as yet.  A reproduction method that works in a virtual machine would be very helpful, if possible.  Not a regression from Natty.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 745960 in grub2 (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Cannot boot grub after installing to LVM" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/745960
<cjwatson>  * Bug 766265: Will need to involve some UI redesign; may or may not happen for Oneiric.  Not a regression from Natty.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 766265 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Ubiquity proceeds to use free space without warning" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/766265
<cjwatson>  * Bug 792652: Unable to reproduce as yet.  Currently milestoned for beta 2.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 792652 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Oneiric) "ubiquity crashed with ValueError in command(): I/O operation on closed file" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/792652
<cjwatson>  * Bug 806784: Not too important given that it's an edge case in a technical-preview filesystem.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 806784 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Oneiric installer crash: not enough space to unpack kernel headers" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/806784
<cjwatson>  * Bug 807636: There are some general sizing issues with the installer at present.  Evan will fix these all in one go.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 807636 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Oneiric) "ubiquity doesn't show console when clicking in detailed view" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/807636
<cjwatson>  * Bug 819328: Michael marked this as In Progress last week; I don't have current status.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 819328 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu Oneiric) "[Oneiric] update-manager crashed with DBusException in _run(): org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NoReply: Did not receive a reply. Possible causes include: the remote application did not send a reply, the message bus security policy blocked the reply, the reply timeout expired, or the network connection was broken." [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/819328
<cjwatson>  * Bug 819624: StÃ©phane thinks this is mostly dealt with; see comment #6.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 819624 in casper (Ubuntu Oneiric) "casper doesn't configure autologin for lightdm properly" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/819624
<cjwatson>  * Bug 819979: Evan says "ABI bump needed, easy fix".
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 819979 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Top Panel is Cut Off During Installation" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/819979
<cjwatson>  * Bug 820514: Pending more information.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 820514 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Oneiric) "oem-config-remove-gtk not found during preinstalled desktop initialization" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/820514
<cjwatson>  * Bug 830061: Evan is going to write a tiny C program to avoid the problems trying to do it in PyGI, but that won't happen for beta-1; for beta-1 we'll just have to disable the background image during installation (screenshotters take note).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 830061 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Oneiric) "ubiquity-dm crashed with AttributeError in run(): 'Pixbuf' object has no attribute 'render_pixmap_and_mask'" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/830061
<cjwatson> We also have some more recent bugs I don't have current status on yet.  Several of them are Unicode decoding errors which Evan has been churning through.
<cjwatson> Also lots of build failures, archive cleanup, etc.  This will continue to make progress through the freeze.
<cjwatson> ..
<skaet> Thanks cjwatson!   appreciate all the cleanup from last week!!
<doko> maybe the better URL for the build failures is http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20110816-oneiric.html
<cjwatson> yep, I've been using the bug list so far until it's empty
<ogasawara> skaet: sorry, did you get the bits I posted?  I could see everything in the channel, but apparently you couldn't see what I posted.
<skaet> thanks doko,  will use that instead.
<doko> universe rebuild is completed for amd64, i386 is built up to `m'
<skaet> sorry ogasawara,  didn't see anything.  can you repost after we finish foundations.
<ogasawara> skaet: yep
<skaet> doko,  consider us warned to stand by for more ftbfs bugs...  :/
<skaet> thanks doko!  :)
<cjwatson> skaet: any remaining ones will be in universe
 * skaet is very glad they will be in universe
<skaet> any questions for cjwatson?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Kernel team update - ogasawara
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Kernel team update - ogasawara
<meetingology> TOPIC: Kernel team update - ogasawara
<ogasawara> Overall status is reported at the first link below.  Burn down for Oneiric Beta-1 is at the second link below.  Burndown for the cycle is at the third link:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-11.10-beta-1.html
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/group/topic-oneiric-kernel-tasks.html
<ogasawara> see that?
<skaet> yup. :)
<ogasawara> phew, /me continues
<ogasawara> We uploaded 2 additional kernels earlier this week, 3.0.0-9.13 and 3.0.0-9.14, to provide some last minute bug fixes we felt necessary to land for the Beta-1 release.  We do not anticipate any further uploads.  We are currently trending slightly above our Beta-1 burndown chart but are below overall.  The remaining work items are not release critical.
<ogasawara> Of the bugs called out on the agenda against the kernel, please drop/move the following:
<ogasawara> #748842 - drop - this is against linuxdcpp which is a universe package and not likely relevant for this meeting.
<ogasawara> #764893 - move - reported against os-prober, should probably go to foundations team
<ogasawara> Of the remaining bugs called out on the agenda against the kernel, status is as follows:
<ogasawara> #542660 - looks to be related to EFI boot not loading the video bios into ram.
<ogasawara> #557261 - updated logs attached, investigation ongoing.
<ogasawara> #656486 - updated logs attached, investigation ongoing.
<ogasawara> #710733 - unconfirmed against Oneiric, awaiting feedback.
<ogasawara> #714862 - assigned to kernel dev, investigation ongoing.
<ogasawara> #746133 - unconfirmed against Oneiric, unreproducible by kernel dev.  awaiting feedback.
<ogasawara> #753071 - large patch set, upstream status unknown.  posted comment for updated status.
<ogasawara> #754711 - on a 3.0 oneiric kernel, system now suspends but doesn't resume.  systemtap debug scripts to help investigate are being worked on for Oneiric, see 815944 (systemtap fix recently posted upstream).
<ogasawara> #758486 - updated debug information attached, investigation ongoing.
<ogasawara> #760131 - partly fixed in Oneiric and soon natty, more analysis ongoing upstream.
<ogasawara> #761082 - unconfirmed against Oneiric, awaiting feedback.
<ogasawara> #790712 - the order 5 allocation seems to be bogus and non-fatal; further investigation ongoing.
<ogasawara> #793486 - the requested debug info has been attached, going to require a bisect.
<ogasawara> #814325 - issue confirmed upstream, actively under investigation by multiple devs.
<ogasawara> #820466 - assigned to kernel dev to investigate.
<ogasawara> ..
<ogasawara> Questions?
<skaet> Thanks ogasawara!   will move those 2 bugs to more relevant sections.
<ogasawara> thanks
<cjwatson> if you do need an emergency upload before beta, please let me know on IRC so I can rebuild the installer
<ogasawara> cjwatson: ack
<cjwatson> ack that os-prober is foundations
<skaet> :)
<skaet> [TOPIC] Server team update - Daviey
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Server team update - Daviey
<meetingology> TOPIC: Server team update - Daviey
<Daviey> o/
<skaet> :)
<Daviey> Hi,
<Daviey> Blueprint Tracking:
<Daviey> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/group/topic-oneiric-server-overview.html
<Daviey> Release tracking issues:
<Daviey> http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html
<Daviey> We do seem to be on track for the blueprint items, and the release tracking issues seem to be manageable.
<Daviey> If there are things that i am not tracking, that perhaps i should be - please let me know as soon as possible.
<Daviey> We still have a few things we'd like to incorporate for Beta-1 (including an optional installer change), and a few things which have
<Daviey> been blocked until the thaw (most importianlty the qemu and libvirt consideration for a new upstream version)).
<Daviey> Generally, we have a pretty stable beta path - and hope that the run up to beta1 and release will help uncover unknown issues.
<Daviey> I'd like to get the final MIR's resolved before beta1 release.
<Daviey> I need to spend some time with someone from QA (probably hggdh), to flesh out some updated test cases.
<Daviey> .
<Daviey> ..
<skaet> Thanks Daviey!   any questions?
<Daviey> None from me.. I should note that we are planning a new upload of openstack snapshots today
<hggdh> \o
<Daviey> that will clear some of the tracking bugs which are fix committed.
<cjwatson> Daviey: could somebody on your team perhaps deal with bug 829508?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 829508 in testng (Ubuntu Oneiric) "testng version 5.11+dfsg-2ubuntu1 failed to build in oneiric" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/829508
 * skaet should remember to say "for Daviey" on questions prompt.  ;)
<Daviey> cjwatson: Hmm, interesting.. I've never tracked testng.
<Daviey> cjwatson: Will investigate, thanks
<skaet> go hggdh
<cjwatson> I'm mostly just keywording on java
<Daviey> cjwatson: I'll get our java whizz on it next week then. :)
<hggdh> Daviey and I have  been trying to get together to discuss the server testing. We hope we will be able to do so very soon (just to clarify)
<hggdh> ..
<skaet> thanks hggdh :)
<Daviey> hggdh: Yes!  Really importiant. :)
<Daviey> cjwatson: Do we really care about tesng significantly?
<Daviey> Now it's universe?
<cjwatson> Daviey: oh, I didn't notice the demotion.  In that case that bug can indeed be unmilestoned; I'll do that
<skaet> [TOPIC] ARM team update - ogra_
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM team update - ogra_
<meetingology> TOPIC: ARM team update - ogra_
<Daviey> cjwatson: jamespage might want to do it regardless, so i will bounce it to him.
<ogra_> oh, thats me !
<skaet> :)
<ogra_> = Full Status is at: =
<ogra_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARMTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<ogra_> --
<ogra_> = Summary =
<ogra_>  - TI/linaro rework of the OMAP4 u-boot was uploaded yesterday, changes to debian-cd, flash-kernel and other infrastructure pending
<ogra_>  - Cleanup of jasper is still ongoing
<ogra_>  - AC100 images are implemented modulo iso-tracker and cdimage/publish-release integration, but will skip beta on release team request
<ogra_>  - mx5 final bits for buildable livefs'es have landed, still some debian-cd post processing scripts are missing
<ogra_>  - during server QA testing issues with iSCSI in the omap4 kernel were found (currently being researched) and ipv6 testing for arm server has started
<ogra_> --
<ogra_> = Image Status =
<ogra_>  - Desktop images don't build due to archive skew
<ogra_>  - Server images build and install fine (modulo omap4 until the bootloader processing changes landed)
<ogra_>  - Netboot images work fine (modulo omap4 until the bootloader processing changes landed)
<ogra_> --
<ogra_> = Specs =
<ogra_>  - Entire http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-arm.html
<ogra_>  - B1 http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-arm-ubuntu-11.10-beta-1.html
<ogra_> --
<ogra_> in the list above there is also d-i missing, i think NCommander's netboot builds fiddle with the bootloaders too
<ogra_> ..
<pitti> ogra_: not really archive skew, unity is FTBFS; fix is in the pipeline (should land around now), then unity-2d build can be retried, then it should become installable
<ogra_> pitti, unity is only a second fallout, telepathy-glib is breaking the world atm
<ogra_> since monday or so
<ogra_> ..
<pitti> hm, that's not on http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/oneiric_probs.html then
<cjwatson> ogra_: I just uploaded d-i to sync with the kernel - will that cover it?
<Daviey> ogra_: Where are the results for the arm server related testing?
<ogra_> cjwatson, i dont think so, one bootloader binary moved to another package, we need to adjust the bootloader bits in the scripts
<cjwatson> ok, I assume NCommander will deal with that then
<ogra_> i hope so, else i or infinity will
<ogra_> Daviey, GrueMaster shoudl be able to give them to you
<Daviey> ogra_: okay, thanks!
<skaet> Thanks ogra_!
 * skaet sees questions have been asked,  so moving on. :)
<skaet> [TOPIC] Linaro update - fabo
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Linaro update - fabo
<meetingology> TOPIC: Linaro update - fabo
<fabo> o/
<fabo>  * Linaro 11.08 is released (http://lists.linaro.org/pipermail/linaro-announce/2011-August/000070.html)
<fabo>    * it contains:
<fabo>      * Linaro kernel based on 3.0.3 stable kernel including the merge of 3.1-rc1 core ARM updates from Russell King's tree
<fabo>      * Linaro GCC 4.6 2011.08 based on latest upstream version
<fabo>      * Linaro Cross Toolchain 2011.07 builds
<fabo>      * Switch to libjpeg-turbo based on the 1.1.90 2011.08 release
<fabo>      * Switch to ext4 rootfs by default
<fabo>  * bug 833876: FFe for u-boot-linaro, making SPL replaces x-loader for omap 4. We're now just waiting the arm team to change the image scripts to replace x-loader for SPL at the omap 4 image.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 833876 in u-boot-linaro (Ubuntu) "FFE: upload new version from Linaro for OMAP4" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/833876
<fabo> ..
<skaet> Thanks fabo!  any questions?
<skaet> for fabo?   :)
<fabo> :)
<ogra_> just a remark ...
<ogra_> it would be nice to know about changes like the u-boot one way way earlier in ubuntu
<ogra_> please take that into account next cycle
<ogra_> ..
<fabo> ogra_: ok
<fabo> the best way is to subscribe the relevant people to the blueprint
<fabo> ogra_: who?
<fabo> or a team?
<ogra_> well, lets discuss that at UDS over a beer :) i need to ask the team first if everyone wants to be spammed all the time :)
<skaet> :)
<skaet> [TOPIC] Ubuntu One Team -  Chipaca or joshuahoover
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu One Team -  Chipaca or joshuahoover
<meetingology> TOPIC: Ubuntu One Team -  Chipaca or joshuahoover
<skaet> hmm... doesn't look like either are around.
<skaet> ok, moving on.
<skaet> [TOPIC] Desktop Team update - pitti
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Desktop Team update - pitti
<meetingology> TOPIC: Desktop Team update - pitti
<pitti> Landed remaining bits of GNOME 3.1.5.
<pitti> New compiz/unity release, which should fix some annoying bugs.
<pitti> ygobject 2.90 transition/upgrade mostly complete, but found breakage with ubiquity at the last minute; problems were tracked down, and Martin proposed fixes. Once they land, we can do the update right after beta-1.
<pitti> s/^/p/
<pitti> Fresh language packs landed, bringing desktop CDs within size limit.
<pitti> Alternate seeds fixed, bringing alternate CDs within size limit.
<pitti> Lots of bug fixing, including some UI warts like the screen saver looking like gnome shell.
<pitti> Got apport retracers working again, and caught up with the backlog.
<pitti> Still swamped by too many "last mile" work items for 90% done specs, and a large bug backlog.
<pitti> RC bug status: details at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus#rcbugs as usual; nothing earthshaking right now, should work well enough for beta-1.
<pitti> ..
 * skaet is VERY glad to see the disk images fitting again!!!
<pitti> so am I
<skaet> Thanks pitti!
<skaet> any questions for pitti?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth or njpatel
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth or njpatel
<meetingology> TOPIC: Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth or njpatel
<dbarth> hi
<skaet> :)
<dbarth> general report: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/OneiricReleaseStatus
<dbarth> here are the highlights:
<dbarth> unity 4.10.0 released
<dbarth> * 3 crashers and one critical performance issue fixed
<dbarth> * also contains the last UI refresh reflecting the latest signed off designs
<dbarth> unity-2d 4.2 - mostly on par with u3d now
<dbarth> compiz 0.9.5.92
<dbarth> * classic decorator is back, gsettings are disabled, as well as the unitydialog style
<dbarth> * Several fixes for the unity-window-decorator; Fixed ICCM 4.1.4 support, ie iconized windows support
<dbarth> * 2 important fixes against: 1 memory leak, 1 crasher at restart
<dbarth> indicators - series of releases this week, with many bug fixes (see report for details)
<dbarth> and with CJK almost there: xapian is in the release now, but ibus support is stuck on a focus issue; it has been proved to work in a general scenario, but it only works "once" :/
<dbarth> we think we can nail that one down for next week
<dbarth> bug status - there are many (many) bugs on our radar, but we've worked on those criticals recently:
<dbarth>  * [Bug:814065]: FIXED, the right-click menu is back
<dbarth>  * [Bug:819389]: FIXED, the patch has been re-applied
<dbarth>  * [Bug:824099]: INVALID, the problem has been confirmed to be an installation issue
<dbarth>  * [Bug:813365]: some progresses on it (see status above), switching to audit unity's memory usage now
<dbarth> ie, drivers issues mostly resolved for now; but we keep working with bryce, raof and the rest of the xorg team
<dbarth> and work on performance improvements starting to show results, but will continue on unity next week
<dbarth> ..
<skaet> Thanks dbarth!
<skaet> any fixes on some of the critical ones expected to land before B1?
<pitti> seb128 will do another unity upload with cherrypicks today
<dbarth> apart from those i've called out, not yet
<dbarth> (checking my bug list)
<skaet> thanks pitti,  seb128.
<skaet> dbarth,  thanks!
<skaet> any other questions for dbarth ?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Kubuntu Team update - ScottK
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Kubuntu Team update - ScottK
<meetingology> TOPIC: Kubuntu Team update - ScottK
<ScottK> - We just noticed today that final KDE 4.7.0 translations didn't get uploaded.  We'll probably hold them until after beta 1.
<ScottK> - Feature wise we have some kubuntu-mobile work to do post beta1 with metapackages, but the things that have potential to affect kubuntu-desktop are done.
<ScottK> - Working on NBS and FTBFS bugs - Due to some unanticipated brain damage in cmake, multi-arching Qt caused a number of FTBFS that are taking some time to sort out.
<ScottK> - Remaining bugs from Alpha 3 are all either low priority or not reproducible enough to work
<ScottK> - Should be in pretty good shape for Beta 1.
<ScottK> ..
<skaet> Thanks ScottK!  :)  happy to hear it should be smooth for Beta 1.
<ScottK> The biggest dissappointment is that we'll have to test the alternates.
<skaet> arm side looking reasonable?
<ScottK> The work that we needed to consolidate to just the live didn't make it this cycle.
<ScottK> It'd be nice to have MX5 images of some variety (since I have hardware)
<ScottK> It seems generally good though.
<skaet> ok,  will get with you offline to discuss what the final manifest needs to look like then (re: alternates, mx5, etc.).
<skaet> any other questions for ScottK?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Edubuntu Team update - stgraber or highvoltage
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Edubuntu Team update - stgraber or highvoltage
<meetingology> TOPIC: Edubuntu Team update - stgraber or highvoltage
<stgraber> Hey everyone!
<stgraber>  
<stgraber> So it's been a pretty busy week for Edubuntu.
<stgraber> We switched to the new ltsp-live code, fixing our last important bug (bug 791611).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 791611 in ltsp (Ubuntu) "[FFe] LTSP live doesn't work with new Network Manager" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/791611
<stgraber> Most of our UI changes made it before UI/beta freeze, including a new wallpaper, some customization of lightdm, change of icon theme and update of the installer slideshow.
<stgraber>  
<stgraber> Our goal of having all of the Edubuntu specific code translatable has been achieved and we're now waiting for contributors to translate the missing pieces.
<stgraber>  
<stgraber> In the end, we didn't drop any of sabayon, pessulus or gnome-nanny as they all install and work to some extent.
<stgraber> It's still pretty likely we drop some of them a bit later when we actually have time testing them a bit more.
<stgraber>  
<stgraber> Unfortunately the unity-greeter regressed at the last minute yesterday dropping a feature we were using, this should hopefully be fixed soon, ideally before beta-1. (bug 834701)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 834701 in unity-greeter (Ubuntu) "greeter regression, no longer allowing flavours to customize the greeter" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/834701
<stgraber>  
<stgraber> One thing that didn't make it before UI freeze is a small unity customization I want for Edubuntu.
<stgraber> Basically replacing the Ubuntu logo by the Edubuntu equivalent. It wasn't obvious how to do it and I noticed that logo changed on the day of UI freeze for Ubuntu.
<stgraber> I filed a UIFe for it (bug 834787) and expect to have the change ready today, doing a single upload fixing both the unity-greeter configuration and the unity dash launcher icon.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 834787 in edubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "[UIFe] Replacing unity circle-of-friends logo by the Edubuntu logo (distributor-logo.svg)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/834787
<stgraber>  
<stgraber> ..
<stgraber> That's all from me. Any question?
<stgraber> (I'm on my cell so typing speed isn't too great :))
<skaet> Thanks stgraber!   appreciate the detail in the update.  :)
 * skaet puts tick in Edubuntu in reasonable shape box as well.
<cjwatson> how the *heck* did you type that fast on an N900?!
<stgraber> cjwatson: hehe :) I loaded file.pl in my irssi
<cjwatson> aha :)
<skaet> [TOPIC] Xubuntu Team update - charlie-tca
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Xubuntu Team update - charlie-tca
<meetingology> TOPIC: Xubuntu Team update - charlie-tca
<charlie-tca> We have looking forward for Beta1. Since Xubuntu did not publish the Alpha3 milestone, it is very important for us to have a Beta1 image. Also, Beta1 should be more stable than the the previous milestones.
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu images at this time are under-sized, which is better than oversized :)
<skaet> :)
<charlie-tca> * #819624: "casper doesn't configure autologin for lightdm properly" - autologin works for the live sessions on the Xubuntu images
<charlie-tca> * #833862: "Onboard Keyboard should have a menu entry for Xubuntu/Xfce" - In the best interests of accessibility, we are watching this. It seems to get patched out of the menus right around final release. Even if Ubuntu doesn't want this in the menus, Xubuntu does.
<charlie-tca> Doesn't look real good for accessible installs for beta1, I will be testing it this weekend and update you after I know more.
<charlie-tca> Any questions?
<charlie-tca> ..
 * charlie-tca knows accessible installs is Ubuntu/Unity, not Xubuntu
<skaet> Thanks charlie-tca!
<skaet> please let me know the results of your accessible installs.
<charlie-tca> Sure will
<skaet> :) appreciate it.
<skaet> any questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Lubuntu Team update - gilir
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lubuntu Team update - gilir
<meetingology> TOPIC: Lubuntu Team update - gilir
<gilir> Hi :)
<gilir> This week, the new theme was uploaded, including wallpaper, gtk2 & gtk3 theme, icons, settings adjustments ...
<gilir> We finished to update LXDE components with the last releases from upstream.
<gilir> Lightdm was evaluated, to see if we can set it by default, but we decided to keep LXDM for 11.10.
<gilir> We still have a critical bug on upgrade (bug #834793), and I was enable to test it properly on daily builds recently.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 834793 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Crash on login, after installing on Lubuntu" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/834793
<gilir> As I'm not sure we will be able to test it properly for the release, it's safer to keep LXDM, which is already well tested on Lubuntu.
<gilir> We also requested a FFe for an alternate ISO image (bug #833390).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 833390 in lubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "FFe: Add alternate image for Lubuntu ISO" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/833390
<gilir> This is one of the main request from our users, and we will have people to test it before the release.
<gilir> Next week, triaging and fixing bugs :)
<gilir> ..
<skaet> Thanks gilir!
<skaet> cjwatson, pitti - any concerns about alternate image?
<pitti> I haven't tried it yet, bit jibel said smoketesting looked okay
<pitti> so at this point I'm more on the receiving side of information
<skaet> hmm...  are we building the lubuntu alternate then?
 * skaet should have inserted lubuntu before putting comment out about alternate image :/
<cjwatson> no, but we can
<cjwatson> I mean it's trivial to do so and I don't mind
<cjwatson> but I felt it should get an FFe
<skaet> thanks cjwatson.
<skaet> agree about FFe at this point.
<cjwatson> well, umm, trivial-ish
<cjwatson> it needs some seed changes
<cjwatson> ah, which gilir has done
<cjwatson> I think pitti thought you were asking about the Ubuntu alternate
<pitti> speaking about new images, we also need to set up the chinese images at some point
<pitti> yes, I was
<skaet> yup,  sorry not to have inserted lubuntu in that comment.
<cjwatson> pitti: yes, I'm in progress on that but it went wrong for some weird reason
<cjwatson> haven't tracked it down yet
<cjwatson> ETOOMUCHMULTITASKING
<skaet> any other questions for gilir before we move on?
<cjwatson> skaet: so should I set up the Lubuntu alternate image?  for me it's either now or Tuesday
<skaet> cjwatson,  prefer to set it up now if we want to try for it to go in to B1.
<skaet> jibel,  can you update iso tracker for new lubuntu alternate images?
<jibel> I can
<skaet> thanks jibel
<skaet> ok,  looks like we can try for it gilir. :)
<gilir> very nice, thanks :)
<cjwatson> ok, trying a test build now
<cjwatson> I'll cron it if that works (ish)
<skaet> [TOPIC] Toolchain update - slangasek or doko
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Toolchain update - slangasek or doko
<meetingology> TOPIC: Toolchain update - slangasek or doko
 * skaet wondering if this has already been covered earlier actually....
<skaet> hmm,  will move on and assume no critical bugs on the horizon or updates pending.
<skaet> [TOPIC] MOTU team update - tumbleweed
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: MOTU team update - tumbleweed
<meetingology> TOPIC: MOTU team update - tumbleweed
<tumbleweed> Lots of FTBFS packages still, but progress being made. Thanks for the rebuild and bug reports, doko
<tumbleweed> I suspect quite a few are going to require new upstream versions of their dependencies
<tumbleweed> cjwatson: You asked me to look at opal, I got to the bottom of most of that (going to require some new upstream versions and libav 0.7 patching), but ekiga was still failing to build, I must look at that again this weekend. (Wanted to get to the bottom of it before applying for FFes. I could probably use some help from anyone who knows ekiga)
 * tumbleweed has my eye on FTBFS science packages for some global jam treatment, hopefully I can get some local people to help me make a dent on them
<tumbleweed> My call for FFes for dh_python2 conversions seems to have been successful (and gave me at least an evening's work)
<tumbleweed> Otherwise mostly been tied up in native package syncing things
<tumbleweed> ..
<skaet> Thanks tumbleweed!
<skaet> any questions for tumbleweed?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Any other business?  - all
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Any other business?  - all
<meetingology> TOPIC: Any other business?  - all
<cjwatson> tumbleweed: ok, thanks
<skaet> going once
<skaet> twice
<skaet> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology is the new Mootbot https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Aug 26 16:18:47 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot . (v 0.1.4)
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-08-26-15.01.moin.txt
<tumbleweed> thanks skaet
<skaet> Thank you, tumbleweed, gilir, charlie-tca, stgraber, ScottK, dbarth, pitti, fabo, ogra_, ogasawara, jdstrand, jibel, mlegris, Daviey, hggdh
<jibel> skaet, thanks!
<charlie-tca> Thank you, skaet
<pitti> thanks everyone
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-08-28
<AlecTaylor> hi
<AlecTaylor> I'm looking for a FOSS Flash or Java project featuring "Click to call" functionality from the browser. Do you know of such a project?
<AlecTaylor> I'm looking for a FOSS Flash or Java project featuring "Click to call" functionality from the browser. Do you know of such a project?
<nhandler> jussi:, tsimpson, elky: Meeting time?
<nhandler> topyli: ^
<topyli> o/
<topyli> i have jussi on the phone, i can be his proxy on oCean's matter if we get right to it
 * nhandler has some pretty bad lag right now
 * oCean looks
<topyli> i'll chair then if nobody minds
<nhandler> Thanks topyli
<topyli> do we have quorum if jussi is not really here but on the phone with me?
<topyli> #starmeeting
<topyli> grr
<nhandler> I'm not quite sure. I don't think we have ever had this come up.
<topyli> i can't even use the bot anyway :)
<nhandler> I guess we could go with it and have jussi confirm in writing when he is back that things were relayed properly
<topyli> yeah because how do you know i'm not putting words in his mouth?
<topyli> we can discuss and rubberstamp the decisions later
<nhandler> Sounds good
<nhandler> topyli: Want to start the bot (you had a typo)
<topyli> oh yes
<topyli> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Sun Aug 28 18:08:19 2011 UTC.  The chair is topyli. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Useful Commands: #topic #action #link #idea #voters #vote #chair #action #agreed #help #info #endmeeting.
<topyli> #topic oCean's membership
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: oCean's membership
<meetingology> TOPIC: oCean's membership
<nhandler> oCean: Care to introduce yourself?
<topyli> oCean: would you like to say sosmething first
<oCean> Eh.. maybe. Let me try, I don't think I can tell anything you don't know already
<oCean> I'm quite new to IRC actually, 2 years ago I registered, I don't really remember why I had to come to #ubuntu, I think it was a wireless issue or something.
<oCean> Then I noticed how valuable the help was, and decided that I could help also. I have my years of linux usage, mostly as sys admin in an oracle world (forgive me) So I'm not really a desktop guy, but I can help where it comes to things like commandline, configuration of certain server software etc
<oCean> Earlier this year I applied for OP in #ubuntu, and no regrets yet.. I do like the community. There's lot's of value in it, more then most think.
<oCean> The details are on the wiki page I think: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ocean
<nhandler> oCean: You said you see the value in the community. Is there anything you would change in the IRC community?
<oCean> be glad to answer questions about that
<topyli> i like the wiki page, you've put a lot of thought in there
<oCean> nhandler: well, not really in the community, but for the #ubuntu channel itself.. many questions are asked over and over again.
<oCean> that's why my page mentions a 'better faq'  though I have no idea exactly how to do that.
<oCean> a while ago I gave this a little try on this site: http://www.somedom.com/  this is just to give a general idea
<nhandler> oCean: The factoids are sort of used as an IRC FAQ. We also have the wiki for more detailed FAQ-type stuff
<jussi> woohoo, irc on phone.
<topyli> the factoids depend on someone knowing them
<topyli> jussi!
<oCean> true, this is somewhat the same as the factoids. But the wikiarticles are very comprehensive
<topyli> jussi: do you have backlog?
<jussi> brb, gonna read oceans page. yes, backlog.
<oCean> nhandler: I haven't figured it out completely, yet :)
<topyli> oCean: you haven't been around for too long, but you have made a rather visible impact on both support and recently as an op. do you think that the community will interest you as much in the future?
 * topyli is old, calls two years "not too long"
<oCean> that's a fair question. I'm really a when-started-stick-to-it guy. The interest is genuine, and I try to convince others of the merits of this community.
<oCean> meh, it's a tough question also :/
<topyli> i'm only asking because membership is not supposed to be a reward for the great work that you have undoubtedly done so far, but a commitment as well
<oCean> I understand. I have no problem with that whatsoever.
<topyli> commitment is not the right word here though, we don't make wows or anything
<oCean> no, but I understand I think
<topyli> jussi, nhandler, i'm pretty much ready to vote. do you want to ask something else before that?
<jussi> Im fine. the webpage is pretty comprehensive, and I have watched oceans actions for a while now.
<jussi> so let's vote
<topyli> right
<topyli> #voters
<meetingology> Current voters:
<topyli> yay
<nhandler> topyli: I think you use that to specify a list of approved voters
<AlanBell> #voters topyli jussi nhandler elky tsimpson
<AlanBell> like that
<topyli> ah right
<topyli> #voters topyli jussi elky nhandler tsimpson
<meetingology> Current voters: elky jussi nhandler topyli tsimpson
<nhandler> AlanBell: Out of curiosity, what does #voters default to?
<topyli> [VOTE] oCean's membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: oCean's membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<AlanBell> nhandler: defaults to everyone
<nhandler> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from nhandler
<topyli> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from topyli
<jussi> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from jussi
<AlanBell> +1
<AlanBell> note it didn't listen to me
<nhandler> :)
<topyli> [ENDVOTE]
<meetingology> Voting ended on: oCean's membership
<meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<topyli> welcome to teh funny farm oCean :)
<oCean> yay! And thanks!
<AlanBell> \o/ oCean
<jussi> :)
<topyli> [TOPIC] Make friends with eir
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Make friends with eir
<meetingology> TOPIC: Make friends with eir
<topyli> great wording AlanBell :)
<jussi> +q to that
<AlanBell> I posted some stuff on the extra page
<jussi> err
<jussi> 1
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/IRCteamproposal
<AlanBell> eir seems to be down at the moment which is a shame
<jussi> AlanBell: you put in the archived stuff :)
<AlanBell> oops. At the bottom of the page people
<nhandler> I have no issue increasing the default expiration to 1 week. But if we do that, I think the default action should be to remove rather than nag. After 1 week, there really is no reason to keep the ban/quiet for most of the minor issues that we get. For repeat-offenders, the OP can adjust the expiration/action manulally
<AlanBell> so I think the frequency is set to 11 minutes which is plain silly
<jussi> nhandler: AlanBell +1
<topyli> i'm not the most technical person in the community and i haven't really played with the bots. i can only say i think nhandler and tsimpson's work has been positive here and i would not go and take it away. if there are issues, let's fix them
<topyli> "remove eir" means "return to the previous problems"
<AlanBell> one thing I am not sure about is putting the ubottu ban URL in the $reason of the eir ban
<Flannel> topyli: "remove eir until eir is fixed" was the original proposal.
 * nhandler isn't sure if the nag frequency is adjustable. It probably just happenes whenever eir runs through its checks
<jussi> AlanBell: Im -1 on that.
<topyli> Flannel: apologies, not trying to twist anyone's words
<nhandler> I think the extra work of adding the BT url compared to the extra effort involved to manually query ubottu with the banstring doesn't justify it
<Flannel> topyli: No worries.  It's just an important distinction.
<AlanBell> nhandler: from my reading of the code it runs through its checks on the frequency tick
<Flannel> topyli: Most of the "no, we can't do that" reactions seem to think it is a "remove eir and scrap it forever" proposal, which it is not.
<topyli> i'm pretty sure there's a way to sanity here too :)
<AlanBell> "(EXP) ban[27688] *!*@*.example.com was set on #ubuntu by jrib!~jrib@upstream/dev/jrib on 2011-08-26 03:11:23 with reason http://ubottu.com/bans.cgi?log=42635 and had an expiry date of 2011-08-28 03:11:23."
<AlanBell> that would be roughly what the nag messages look like if the reason was set with the ubottu ban URL
<jussi> AlanBell: that would be nice if automated, horrible if not...
<AlanBell> it is basically moving the effort from the end of the ban to the start of the ban
<nhandler> Automating isn't the easiest. Especially if you want to preserve being able to set a real comment in eir and have it go to the BT
<AlanBell> and making one person do it rather than multiple people do it
<nhandler> That is a good point
<AlanBell> I think it might be possible to contribute to freenode an enhancement to the describe_ban function in eir that goes and finds the ubottu link if it is in an ubottu channel
<nhandler> I doubt that freenode would implement that
<nhandler> What if we had ubottu pm a BT url after a ban/quiet is set? Then it is a simple copy/paste
<AlanBell> that sounds like a generally useful thing anyway
<nhandler> That would probably be a fairly simple patch, and it would lend itself to other use-cases as well.
<jussi> If we could do that ubottu could of course just pm eir with the right syntax...
<jussi> or do both
<AlanBell> so these are good ways to automate it later
<nhandler> jussi: That makes it hard for OPs to add real comments about the ban in the btset command
<m4v> My thought is that we should start working in BT2, instead of keep making this frankenstein, it will most likely take like one year or more to make it a reality, but we have to start at some point. Eir isn't going to fix the long times it takes the bantracker to load something.
<nhandler> eir wasn't designed to solve that issue. It was designed to help with the banning and forgetting and the huge ban lists
<m4v> nhandler: which turned out not to be as simple as originally hoped
<m4v> is a lot of effort that could go into BT2 instead.
<jussi> in anycase, it should be easy enough to get ubottu to pm hat url, as she already pms the ban number.
 * nhandler thought she stopped doing that for #ubuntu
<oCean> I think so too ^
<jussi> yes, but the code still is there...
<nhandler> Yep.
<AlanBell> ok, so that sounds like something that could be done very soon then
<nhandler> Alright, so in summary: 1) Have ubottu PM BT URLs to make it easy to copy/paste them into btset commands 2) Extend default expiration to 1 week 3) Change default action to auto-remove (ops can manually change this for repeat-offenders)
<AlanBell> then ops setting a ban will get a pm from the two bots, copy from one window to the other, done
<AlanBell> nhandler: and frequency
<Flannel> nhandler: That makes it even less optional than it is currenly.  I'm just going to point that out.
<nhandler> It is also worth noting that in the next day or so (just dealing with a few remaining issues), all OPs should be able to adjust all bans
<Flannel> (point #3)
<nhandler> Flannel: In what way?
<Flannel> AlanBell: Actually btset needs to be done in -ops-monitor, not a PM, for ubottu to pick it up.
<jussi> -ops-team
<Flannel> nhandler: By automatically removing a ban I set, using eir is not optional for me.
<Flannel> Sorry, -ops-team
<nhandler> AlanBell: I'm still not sure if that can be changed on a per-channel basis easily, but I will check
<AlanBell> Flannel: good point, but the principal stands
<nhandler> Flannel: If the ban hasn't been dealt with in a week and it isn't a repeat-offender, it should be removed.
<oCean> q: Has it been decided that eir is the way to go? I'm with m4v, to see if we really need eir, or is that out of the question?
<AlanBell> nhandler: the frequency certainly can be changed per channel easily, I am just not quite 100% sure that is the thing the controls the nag repeating
<m4v> It might be worth to set ubottu to nag just before eir removes the ban
<nhandler> Ideally, the OP would have followed the ban up with a PM to discuss it, either resulting in the expiration time being adjusted or the ban being immediately removed
<Flannel> nhandler: eir was originally advertised as being optional.  I bit my tongue for a while because it was supposed to be optional, so I didn't want to ruin the party for those who wish to use it.
<Flannel> nhandler: Even when it was put into play last Monday, it was /still/ touted as being optional.  This is not optional.
<nhandler> That depends on your definition of "optional".
<Flannel> Well, judging by the wording of the email, "optional" meant "don't ever have to learn eir if you don't want to, and your experience will be the same"
<Flannel> Because automatically removing bans is a major shift in the way we've handled bans.  This moves from a "come get it taken care of in -ops" to a "wait it out" sort of policy.
<nhandler> Your experience will be the same if you deal with the bans in a timely manner. For repeat-offenders, youl would need to learn to use 1 new command
<Flannel> I don't want bans to become time-outs.
<oCean> Flannel: +1
<Flannel> nhandler: So, for the record, this represents a shift in operator policy, to time-based bans.
<Flannel> A shift which has not ever been discussed or broguht up, to the operator community.
<Flannel> Let alone decided by the IRCC.
<AlanBell> nhandler: so what is the btset command to change an individual ban to a nag rather than a remove?
<Flannel> (As it seems that this is an unknown side-effect to using eir, not a conscious decision)
<Flannel> AlanBell: remove/ban is the symbol prefix to the duration
<topyli> i agree with Flannel that we advertised it as optional when it really isn't after all
<nhandler> Flannel: A user might get unbanned by eir once, but after that, if they get banned for the same thing again, I would assume that the operator would make some effort to talk to the user and extend the expiration time if they can't
<Flannel> nhandler: And what makes you think that they /wont/ get banned for the same thing again? Considering there was no check that they even understood why they were banned in the first place?
<Flannel> Their ban gets removed (after a week), they wander back in none the wiser
 * AlanBell thinks changing the default action is deserving of a full agenda item in the next meeting
<Flannel> We get users always asking "so, how long is my ban?", they see bans as a time out/punishment.
<nhandler> Flannel: So use the ban message or a PM to talk to the user and explain the problem if you think they don't understand. Take the active position rather than waiting for them to come to -ops.
<nhandler> Being an OP is about more than just setting a +b and waiting for the user to come to -ops
<Flannel> nhandler: So, you're proposing that we take an active position in being an operator.  Which is fine and good, except how is this different than simply saying "take an active position in commenting and removing your bans"?
<Flannel> nhandler: Also, often the user cannot be dealt with at the time (theyre still angry/etc).  And simply having operators 'check if the user is around' randomly for a while isn't sustainable.
<topyli> jussi called, his internet just tried. he'll try to get back online
<topyli> s/tried/died/
<AlanBell> so this is an interesting discussion, but what I wanted to do in this agenda item was propose some simple and uncontroversial changes which will make people happier with eir and each other
<AlanBell> I don't think changing the default action falls into that category
<nhandler> Whether or not they are angry, that doesn't stop someone from sending a PM explain the specific rule that they broke and why it is wrong. They might not be able to agree right then and there, but they will still have been informed for next time
<topyli> the thing is, we have to remove old bans anyway, and we're not doing it. eir makes this easier. how is this a bad thing?
<Flannel> topyli: Again, it's a change in policy to time-based bans.
<Flannel> And it forces people to use eir if they want to opt out of that (and opting out used to be the default way we functioned)
<topyli> alright. so let's document it so it's not a bug :)
<AlanBell> we also have a bunch of other channels to test stuff on
<Flannel> topyli: and the fact that we didn't even know that eir was going to modify our behavors and policies this way until we tried it does not bode well.
<AlanBell> we could put eir in the other core channels and try auto-expire there first before unleashing it on #ubuntu
<topyli> AlanBell: tsimpson invited people to test eir on a channel way back, but nobody helped
<topyli> Flannel: our policy was never to have hundreds of stale bans nobody even remembers about
<AlanBell> testing live is the way pros do it :)
<Flannel> topyli: Which is why we clean ban.  I don't think that concentrating this effort to a particular period of time is a horrible thing.  Some could argue its more efficient.
<AlanBell> anyhow, I would like to have a set of actions agreed that can be implemented straight away
<Flannel> topyli: But if we wanted to set a default length of time for bans, fine, we should consciously have that conversation.  We shouldn't just say "surprise! eir makes your bans go away!"
<nhandler> We didn't
<Flannel> nhandler: Sure you did.
<nhandler> eir has been discussed for several months now. Some people chose not to pay attention to the discussions
<Flannel> nhandler: No, eir was presented as optional.  That means if I don't want to use it, I don't need to know about it.
<Flannel> From the email last Monday (when eir was put into place):
<Flannel> "The use of eir is just another option available, itâs use is not required to continue managing #ubuntu, though we do encourage everyone to try eir out."
<Flannel> Where in that statement does it say "if you don't interface with eir, your bans will disappear"
<Flannel> (that comes from https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-irc/2011-August/001346.html )
<topyli> there probably is a communication failure there. frankly, i don't think eir is exactly optional for #ubuntu ops
<m4v> for making it optional eir shouldn't take no default action
<Flannel> Like I said, this amounts a policy change, and one that comes across as us not being fully aware of how eir works when we put it into action.
<m4v> err
<topyli> eir's functionality was well communicated well in time
<m4v> double negative, I mean, it should take no action unless told so
<topyli> even i understood most of it!
<topyli> so. we have to finish the meeting soon. what can we conclude on this issue?
<Flannel> topyli: and I fully admit that as soon as I heard 'optional', I stopped paying attention.  It was naivety on my part.  But that doesn't change the facts.
<topyli> that it is still an issue and everyone disagrees?
<AlanBell> topyli: I would propose that right now we don't change the default action, but start a discussion about doing so on the mailing list and add an agenda item to the next meeting
<m4v> if it removes your bans, or if it nags you to no end. is not optional
<AlanBell> and right now we agree to change the frequency, default duration of eir when it comes back
<AlanBell> and communicate with the ops that it would be a good idea to put the ubottu URL in the eir reason
<nhandler> I don't necessarily agree about changing the default expiration right now, but I can look into the nag-frequency
<nhandler> The ubottu url feature we can work on
<AlanBell> and investigate automating the reason population with the ubottu url
<AlanBell> ops can manually do that right now if they want to
<oCean> So the motion to suspend air is off the table?
<oCean> eir
<AlanBell> there was no such motion
<oCean> AlanBell: on the ML there was
<AlanBell> sorry, yes there was, but not raised by me in this agenda item
<m4v> oCean: for that, I did like to have tsimpson's input, since he's the one coding right now (i'm busy with the factoid plugin) he isn't here I'm afraid.
<AlanBell> ok, so defer the default duration and the default action to the next meeting
<AlanBell> is the default duration 24 or 48 hours right now?
<Flannel> 48h, with 11 minute nag frequency.
<nhandler> So can we conclude this meeting now?
<AlanBell> do you want to put things in #agreed or #action?
<topyli> i'd like to not make any #action but just #agree that we continue the discussion on the mailing list and -ops-team
<topyli> nhandler: what say you? jussi is again internetless, i have him on the phone :)
<topyli> [AGREED] eir discussion will continu until bukkit returns
<nhandler> topyli: We could probably action or agree the looking into the nag frequency and getting ubottu to show BT urls
<topyli> nhandler: that's right.
<topyli> would you like to action that? jussi would also agree with extending the default frequency
<topyli> (we'll get his confirmation later)
<topyli> (or not :)
<nhandler> Feel free to give me the actions to look into them. tsimpson would probably need to actually implement the ubottu thing though
<topyli> [ACTION] nhandler to look into extending eir nag frequency and getting ubottu to show BT urls, with assistance from tsimpson
<meetingology> ACTION: nhandler to look into extending eir nag frequency and getting ubottu to show BT urls, with assistance from tsimpson
<topyli> are there any other issues? new bugs?
 * topyli looks
<topyli> no new ones, just the one about guidelines being too #ubuntu-centric
<topyli> i think it was in good progress, but has since somewhat gone stale
<topyli> is anyone working on that?
<topyli> well, let's just
<topyli> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology is the new Mootbot https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot
<meetingology> Meeting ended Sun Aug 28 19:28:11 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot . (v 0.1.4)
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-08-28-18.08.moin.txt
<topyli> i'll do the post-meeting tasks tomorrow
<nhandler> Thanks for chairing topyli
<topyli> cheers. and thanks all for the constructive and non-flamy discussion on the eir thing
<oCean> also thanks for the oCean thingy :)
<topyli> :)
<AlanBell> thanks all
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-08-20
<kees> \o
 * pitti waves sleepily
 * stgraber waves
<mdz> o/
<stgraber> #startmeeting Ubuntu Technical Board meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Aug 20 21:00:01 2012 UTC.  The chair is stgraber. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Technical Board meeting Meeting | Current topic:
<cjwatson> Hi
<stgraber> so, looks like it's going to be a short one
<kees> yeah
<kees> from email, I'm fine moving this 1 hour earlier.
<pitti> the only thing on the ML that I saw was the Mythbuntu MRE request, but that needs some further info (I replied bymail)
<soren> o/
<pitti> that'd be great
<soren> 1 hour earlier sounds fantastic.
<stgraber> pitti: we granted the MRE last meeting
<cjwatson> Well
<pitti> stgraber: oh, that was fast; I didn't see a response on the ML, sorry for the confusion then
<soren> Oh. I forgot to send out meeting minutes didn't I?
<stgraber> pitti: yeah, we did it during the meeting as they wanted an MRE for mythtv for inclusion in 12.04.1
<pitti> stgraber: not on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates/MicroReleaseExceptions ?
<cjwatson> One hour earlier isn't quite as good for me because it runs into the children's bedtime a bit more; this slot generally falls into the "rest of house asleep so I get peace and quiet" slot
<cjwatson> But I could manage it
<cjwatson> Four or five hours earlier would be better, but that gets early for west coast
<pitti> we can also re-do a doodle
<cjwatson> I don't really want to spend lots of time arguing about it, I'm happy to suffer an hour earlier for a while
<cjwatson> Just wanted to register that it's not all rainbws and unicorns :-)
<cjwatson> *rainbows
<pitti> but I generally find it less intrusive to bind it to summer time, not UTC
<cjwatson> Yeah
<mdz> 1 hour earlier is fine with me too
<mdz> better even
<stgraber> ok, so looks like it's fine for pretty much everyone but cjwatson, so we can officially shift the meeting to 20:00 UTC and if it becomes a problem we can always do a doodle again (as much as I hate that ...)
<stgraber> #action stgraber to try and find all the places to update the TB meeting time to 20:00 UTC
<meetingology> ACTION: stgraber to try and find all the places to update the TB meeting time to 20:00 UTC
<pitti> that's a tad less inconvenient (still within my usual sleeping time, but only just)
<pitti> so, thanks
<stgraber> besides that, I see no action, no agenda item, nothing to discuss from the ML and no new bugs
<stgraber> I can't remember what's the current status on the brainstorm review though, is that still pending?
<stgraber> s/pending/in progress/
<soren>   Yes.
<soren> :(
<mdz> which one is that? from May?
<soren> Well... Yes
<soren> Sort of.
<soren> It's the one that was supposed to start in May, but it didn't become an action item for anyone until the end of June or thereabouts.
<stgraber> ok, no worries, just didn't remember the status and the wiki didn't help me much there :)
<stgraber> #topic Select chair for next meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Technical Board meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Select chair for next meeting
<stgraber> I guess that's cjwatson?
<cjwatson> Yep
<cjwatson> I'm thinking my way through the tail-end of bug 174375 now, FWIW
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 174375 in Launchpad itself "Distribution drivers permissions may need redesign" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174375
<cjwatson> Very tempted to just close it out at this point as it is distinctly in diminishing-returns territory
<cjwatson> But I just want to double-check a last few assumptions against code
<stgraber> I think I'll go read the comments a bit later or we'll never finish this meeting ;)
<stgraber> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Technical Board meeting Meeting | Current topic:  AOB
<stgraber> anything?
<pitti> not from me
<soren> nope
<stgraber> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Aug 20 21:15:02 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-20-21.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-20-21.00.html
<kees> thanks stgraber!
<stgraber> thanks everyone
<pitti> thanks
<pitti> and good night!
<cjwatson> If TB folks are still reading, I've commented on 174375 with a plan for closing it out
<cjwatson> And somewhat reversing my earlier position
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-08-21
 * smb looks expectantly
<roaksoax> howdy all
<jimbaker> hi everyone
<roaksoax> let's get started
<smoser> o/
<roaksoax> #startmeeting
<arosales> hello
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Aug 21 16:02:33 2012 UTC.  The chair is roaksoax. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<roaksoax> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<roaksoax> it seems there were no actions. Unless missing from the wikipage
<roaksoax> if there are none, lets move on
<roaksoax> [TOPIC] Quantal Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Quantal Development
<roaksoax> [LINK] Release Bugs - http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html
<roaksoax> bug 1028453
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1028453 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Quantal Ubuntu Server minimal install oversized" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1028453
<roaksoax> is assigned to the whole team, has anyone been able to look at it
<roaksoax> ?
<arosales> I think Daviey said he had taken a look recently
<roaksoax> Daviey: ^^
<roaksoax> smoser: ^^
<roaksoax> who's taking care of that bug
<smoser> well, it wasn't me .
<roaksoax> let's move on in the meantime since they seem to be afk
<smoser> yeah.
<smoser> you can #action me
<roaksoax> bug 1028503
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1028503 in cloud-init (Ubuntu) "support creating initial user if not present" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1028503
<smoser> #action smoser follow up on bug 1028453
<meetingology> ACTION: smoser follow up on bug 1028453
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1028453 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Quantal Ubuntu Server minimal install oversized" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1028453
<roaksoax> smoser: thanks smoser
<utlemming> roaksoax: in progress and will have an MP on that later today
<roaksoax> utlemming: awesome, could you please assign it to you? :)
<roaksoax> alright, moving on: bug 1030914
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1030914 in python-glanceclient (Ubuntu) "trying to overwrite '/usr/bin/glance', which is also in package glance-client" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1030914
 * utlemming begrudgingly assigns to self
<roaksoax> zul: ^^?
<roaksoax> adam_g: or you?
<zul> roaksoax: on it
<roaksoax> great thanks!
<zul> sorry i just lost track of time on the meeting
<roaksoax> bug 1034701
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1034701 in horizon (Ubuntu Quantal) "ImportError: Could not import settings 'openstack_dashboard.settings': missing dependency on python-glanceclient" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1034701
<roaksoax> zul: i guess that's yours too? :)
<zul> roaksoax: im thinking thats already fixed but ill double check
<roaksoax> alright, thank you
<roaksoax> bug #1028509
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1028509 in nova (Ubuntu) "'nova rescue' fails if an instance image does not have a kernel_id" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1028509
<roaksoax> zul is the winner again :)
<zul> effing
<roaksoax> and bug #995285
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 995285 in nova (Ubuntu Quantal) "if /etc/sudoers.d/nova_sudoers is removed, upgrades fail" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/995285
<roaksoax> zul: sounds like fun times
<zul> no...it isnt
<roaksoax> hehe
<roaksoax> anyways, bug #1014005
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1014005 in ipxe (Ubuntu) "Please generate and include ipxe.dsk to the ipxe binary package" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1014005
<roaksoax> anyone would like to take care of it?
<hallyn> oh hm.  i guess that will have to be me
<roaksoax> thanks hallyn
<roaksoax> bug #1024281
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1024281 in python-glanceclient (Ubuntu) "Bug during installation. conflicts: python-glanceclient + glance-client" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1024281
<zul> dupe
<roaksoax> alright,
<roaksoax> bug #858867
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 858867 in cobbler (Ubuntu) "XMLRPC allows unauthed users access to various methods (which it shouldn't) " [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/858867
<roaksoax> fix released
<roaksoax> bug #1023066
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1023066 in quantum (Ubuntu) "python-quantum fails to install due to python syntax errors" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1023066
<roaksoax> adam_g: updates?
<roaksoax> guess he is not around, let's skip.
<roaksoax> bug 1025203
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1025203 in quantum (Ubuntu) "Trying to overwrite '/etc/quantum/plugins/openvswitch/ovs_quantum_plugin.ini', which is also in package quantum-server" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1025203
<roaksoax> zul: any updates?
<zul> roaksoax: not yet hopefully will have a fix this week
<roaksoax> alright, finally
<roaksoax> bug 844995
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 844995 in python-couchdb (Ubuntu) "Drop support for couchdb related packages" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/844995
<roaksoax> anyone taking care of it
<roaksoax> it doesn't seem to be much to be done
<zul> i thought it was done...daviey did an upload
<SpamapS> how can any of us do anything?
<roaksoax> yeah it seems so
<SpamapS> seems like its just an archive admin thing
<roaksoax> indeed
<roaksoax> alright, let's move on then
<adam_g> roaksoax: sorry, the quantum upload are still blocked on MIRs AFAIK
<roaksoax> [LINK] Blueprints - http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/ubuntu-server.html
<Daviey> I did the upload required for the other task
<Daviey> that is an AA task
<roaksoax> Daviey: thanks ;)
<arosales> roaksoax: I have a few high /essentials in the red to go over if thats ok.
<Daviey> <--- on a call
<roaksoax> arosales: please do
<arosales> So feature freeze is this Thursday and beta1 is next week. 68% way through the release.
<arosales> If we could start evaluating which work items will need to be postponed this will help notify folks at a reasonable time that a feature won't make it instead of surprising them close to time of release.
<arosales> zul: are the following openstack BPs progressing ok? Perhaps these are items that land late in the cycle due to the OpenStack release schedule.
<arosales> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-openstack-qa
<arosales> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-openstack-folsom
<arosales> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-openstack-stable
<zul> arosales: the openstack-qa and opestack-stable doesnt affect feature freeze and i think we are ok for openstack-folsom
<arosales> zul: ok thanks.
<arosales> roaksoax: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-openstack-ha
<roaksoax> arosales: 1 thing waiting on AA work
<arosales> roaksoax: thanks
<roaksoax> the rest waiting on Debian, so I'll catch up today/tomorrow and make necessary uploads
<arosales> great, thanks
<arosales> bug-triage-review and iso-tests-review I will follow up with jamespage when he returns.
<arosales> Spamaps, I think we already hit on  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-juju-charms-release-policy yesterday
<arosales> m_3: jimbaker: is https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-juju-charm-unit-tests up to date?
<SpamapS> we did
<SpamapS> email drafting today :)
<arosales> SpamapS: thanks
<arosales> utlemming: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-jenkins-cloud-builder
<utlemming> arosales: it'll make it
<arosales> looking ok for beta1 next week?
<arosales> utlemming:  ^
<utlemming> arosales: its almost done, I just need to flip the switch, which I think will happen tomorrow
<utlemming> arosales: yup
<jimbaker> arosales, i'm looking now
<utlemming> arosales: I was waiting till 12.04.1 to be safe
<arosales> utlemming: makes sense, and the external read-only jenkis and notifications coming post beta1?
<jimbaker> arosales, i don't think m_3 has gotten a chance to work on it. i know i haven't :)
<utlemming> arosales: no eta on the external jenkins instance, but that is not a blocker. That can be implemented any time with out affecting the build service.
<jimbaker> arosales, in terms of the blueprints update
<arosales> jimbaker: ok I'll sync up with you and m_3 later today on the pregress -- thanks
<arosales> those were the red high/essential BPs
<jimbaker> (our BPs are further behind than we are, fortunately)
<arosales> just one last suggestion to postpone work items that we know we aren't going to make :-)
<arosales> jimbaker: better that way then reverse :-)
<arosales> roaksoax: back to you
<jimbaker> arosales, for sure ;)
<roaksoax> alright
<arosales> did anyone else have any BPs to go over?
<roaksoax> so if there's no more to bring to the table on quantal development, let's move on, shall we?
<roaksoax> [TOPIC] 12.04.1 Development (jamespage & smoser)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: 12.04.1 Development (jamespage & smoser)
<roaksoax> smoser:
<m_3> arosales: no, that unit test blueprint isn't up to date
<smoser> well, we're almost there.
<roaksoax> jamespage:
<arosales> m_3: roger that
<roaksoax> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~jamespage/server-sru/precise-sru.html
<smoser> its shipping on thursday.
<roaksoax> m_3: sorry about that
<roaksoax> smoser:  do you want me to go over the SRU bugs?
<SpamapS> seriously impressive amount of bug fixes shipped
<smoser> i really dont think there is much to say, as there is not much that can be done at this point.
<roaksoax> alright, lets move on then
<smoser> if the bug isn't in -proposed, it is -updates, which is fine.
<smoser> er... -updates even.
<roaksoax> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<roaksoax> any events coming up?
<SpamapS> CloudOpen/LinuxCon next week!
<SpamapS> adam_g and myself will be speaking about OpenStack and Juju respectively
<roaksoax> awesome
<SpamapS> I believe Canonical's VP of Cloud will also be keynoting
<Daviey> \o/
<SpamapS> http://events.linuxfoundation.org/events/cloudopen
<roaksoax> alright!
<arosales> also jimbaker @ https://sea.ucar.edu/event/service-orchestration-cloud-environments-juju next week giving a Juju preso.
<smb> XenSummit and Plumbers too
<SpamapS> Linux Plumbers is also co-located
<roaksoax> seems like there's good presence
<jimbaker> i was just asked to give a guest lecture on juju for the data center computing class at univ of colorado
<jimbaker> sometime end of sept
<roaksoax> that's nice!
<roaksoax> alright then! we hvae a whole bunch of events!
<SpamapS> And its in San Diego :)
<roaksoax> let's move on
<roaksoax> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<roaksoax> hggdh: you are up :)
<roaksoax> seems he is not around, let's get back to him later
<roaksoax> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<roaksoax> smb: howdy!
<smb> hi
<smb> Spent some time looking at bug 1011792. Only having stack traces
<smb> (even more so since those usually are from older kernels) does not
<smb> help too much. There are currently a few things which I asked them
<smb> to do try. Waiting on those answers (not too actively as I am
<smb> prematurely leaving towards San Diego tomorrow to have a few days
<smb> off before XenSummit and Plumbers which I am at. And maybe it can
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1011792 in linux-lts-backport-oneiric (Ubuntu) "Kernel lockup running 3.0.0 and 3.2.0 on multiple EC2 instance types" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1011792
<smb> be discussed there for more ideas in some hallway discussion.
<smb> utlemming, if lightning strikes and fires start burning during the
<smb> rest of this week, apw knows a bit about the topic now.
<smb> Apart from this, zul, if you remember that libvirt source package
<smb> you wanted to look at one of those days... IIRC you now need to
<smb> tweak it because there was yet another upload to Quantal. The
<smb> outdated version still is at chinstrap:~smb/4review.
<utlemming> smb: I was pinged last night after hours, but I missed it
<zul> frig
<smb> utlemming, I think there is now enough to let them gather data
<smb> At least enough to cover until next week... :-P
<smb> ..
<roaksoax> Alright, if theres nothing else to discuss with smb, lets move on! [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<roaksoax> err
<roaksoax> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<rbasak> Nothing new to report. Any questions for me?
<roaksoax> rbasak: howdy!
<roaksoax> anyone questions for rbasak ?
<hallyn> rbasak: woudl you mind running the lxc-testsuite against arm if you get a chance?
<hallyn> i *think* a team is doing that regularly, but i like to make sure
<rbasak> hallyn: we were just discussing this today. I believe we already are, but perhaps an old version
<hallyn> ok, if it's being discussed, i'm happy :)  thanks
<rbasak> it's on mreed's todo (I don't think he's here or in #ubuntu-server but he's working on it)
<hallyn> (that reminds me i have a fix i need to push to bzr in the tests)
<hallyn> great, thanks
<roaksoax> alright, if there's nothing else to discuss here
<roaksoax> lets move on
<roaksoax> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion
<roaksoax> anyone has anything to discuss?
<SpamapS> meetings are too short
<SpamapS> lets make them longer
<SpamapS> and have more people talk at once
<SpamapS> maybe lots of ascii art diagrams?
<zul> i think its the right length
<zul> but then again whats the sound of one hand clapping
<roaksoax> \o/
<SpamapS> roaksoax: thanks for chairing
<roaksoax> glad to help :)
<roaksoax> alright, so
<arosales> roaksoax: thanks
<roaksoax> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announce next meeting date and time
<roaksoax> same time/place, see you all next week
<roaksoax> #endmeeting
<jimbaker> awesome, later
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Aug 21 16:37:46 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-21-16.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-21-16.02.html
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Aug 21 17:01:02 2012 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Quantal
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<ppisati> o/
<cking> o/
<sforshee> o/
<herton> o/
<henrix> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> Q/omap4: a new Q/omap4 3.5 kernel was uploaded yesterday (3.5.0-208.14) and a                                                                                                        new one that includes all the patches that went into tilt-3.4[1] after i
<ppisati> started my porting is being worked on.
<ppisati> Hopefully this new one (3.5.0-209.15 [2]) will be the last one before beta1,
<ppisati> and it should fix the hangs rsalveti experiences with pvr-omap4.
<ppisati> Source code is available here:
<ppisati> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=ppisati/ubuntu-quantal.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/ti-omap4
<ppisati> [1]: http://git.linaro.org/gitweb?p=people/andygreen/kernel-tilt.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/tilt-3.4, linux-release-2012-07..HEAD
<ppisati> [2]: http://people.canonical.com/~ppisati/linux-image-3.5.0-209-omap4_3.5.0-209.15_armhf.deb
<ppisati> ..
<ppisati> rsalveti: ^
 * rsalveti still stressing the system to see if the hang is gone
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/canonical-kernel-distro-team-ubuntu-12.10-beta-1.html
<ogasawara> || apw         || hardware-q-kernel-config-review || 3 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ||             || hardware-q-kernel-delta-review  || 4 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||             || hardware-q-kernel-misc          || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ||             || desktop-q-clean-old-kernels     || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> || cking       || hardware-q-kernel-misc          || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || ogasawara   || hardware-q-kernel-misc          || 4 work items ||
<ogasawara> || tgardner    || hardware-q-kernel-misc          || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> If your name is in the above table, please review your Beta-1 work items.
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Quantal Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Quantal Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> We've recently uploaded the 3.5.0-11.11 Quantal kernel to the release
<ogasawara> pocket.  This upload most notably provides a rebase to the v3.5.2
<ogasawara> upstream stable release.  This was also uploaded to the q-lts-backport
<ogasawara> [1] PPA to help facilitate testing of the 12.10 kernel in 12.04.  We
<ogasawara> welcome anyone to please install, test, and let us know your feedback.
<ogasawara> [1] https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat/+archive/q-lts-backport
<ogasawara> Note that we are ~1 week away from Beta 1 Freeze.  I intend to upload or
<ogasawara> Beta-1 kernel no later than next Tues, Aug 28.  If there are any patches
<ogasawara> which need to land, send them to the Ubuntu kernel team mailing list
<ogasawara> asap.
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Aug 30 - Beta 1 Freeze (~1 week)
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Sept 6 - Beta 1 (~2 weeks)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (bjf)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's (bjf)
<bjf> == 2012-08-21 (weekly) ==
<bjf> Currently we have 96 CVEs on our radar, with 2 CVE retired this week.
<bjf> See the CVE matrix for the current list:
<bjf> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<bjf> Overall the backlog has decreased slightly this week:
<bjf> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/status/cve-metrics.txt
<bjf> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Oneiric/Natty/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton/henrix)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Oneiric/Natty/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton/henrix)
<henrix> Here is the status for the main kernels, until today (August 21):
<henrix>  * Hardy - Nothing in this cycle
<henrix>  * Lucid - In Testing; 3 CVEs; (6 commits)
<henrix>  * Natty - In Testing; 1 CVEs; (4 commits)
<henrix>  * Oneiric - In Verification; 1 CVEs; 2 upstream stable release(s); (98 commits)
<henrix>  * Precise - In Verification; 0 CVEs; 3 upstream stable release(s); (166 commits)
<henrix>  
<henrix> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<henrix>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<henrix>  
<henrix> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<henrix>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<henrix>  
<henrix> Future stable cadence cycles:
<henrix>  * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseInterlock
<henrix>  
<henrix> The week of Sept. 6 is the week the last Natty kernel will be built.
<henrix> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Aug 21 17:06:33 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-21-17.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-21-17.01.html
<cking> thanks jsalisbury
 * greg-g waves
<Cracknel> Hi Greg
<czajkowski> aloha
<itnet7> Hey there everyone!
<xdatap1> hi everybody
<huats> hey
<SergioMeneses> hello!!!
<maletaski> hi
<Rainmaker__> hi
<SergioMeneses> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Aug 21 20:02:16 2012 UTC.  The chair is SergioMeneses. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<czajkowski> aloha
<SergioMeneses> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda
<czajkowski> Cracknel: ping
<Cracknel> hi Laura
<SergioMeneses> #topic Romania Reapproval
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Romania Reapproval
<czajkowski> welcome thanks for coming
<SergioMeneses> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RomanianTeam/ReApprovalApplication2012
<czajkowski> nice wiki page folks!
<SergioMeneses> hello Cracknel
<Cracknel> sorry for not attending the meeting last month, I've forgot to add it to the calendar
<SergioMeneses> Cracknel, dont worry!
<czajkowski> that's fine Cracknel these things happen :)
<czajkowski> Cracknel: so how do things get done in your team ?
<czajkowski> organisation?
<Cracknel> usually we use the forums for most of the work
<Cracknel> but there is a trend to use social networking websites like Google+
<czajkowski> nods
<czajkowski> does everyone help out?
<Cracknel> well, people interested in working on something usually get into the conversation
<Cracknel> as everything is public, this is not a problem
<greg-g> Cracknel: do you see any issues coming up for the Romania LoCo in the future?
<czajkowski> thats good open discussion
<IngForigua> gmorning
<Cracknel> I don't think there will be a problem in the future
<SergioMeneses> Cracknel, I have a recommendation, you have to use the loco portal http://loco.ubuntu.com/
<huats> How is defined the structure of the LoCo ?
<Cracknel> SergioMeneses: we've tried for the recent events
<Cracknel> huats: there is a core, based on older members
<hollman> :D
<Cracknel> and every one else that wants to join is welcome
<itnet7> Cracknel: I really like the outreach programs the team has held, very nice!
<SergioMeneses> Cracknel, great... keep it in mind!
<czajkowski> Cracknel: http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-ro/events/history
<czajkowski> nice work I'd encourage you to add your events here as it's easy to keep track of for your team
<Cracknel> czajkowski: some might not come to knowledge of the core members of the team (the launchpad team)
<Cracknel> so they do not appear in the loco team portal
<czajkowski> Cracknel: yu mean people are not on Launchpad?
<Cracknel> are not on the ubuntu-ro team on Launchpad
<Cracknel> but they do use Launchpad for translations, bug reporting...
<czajkowski> ah ok
<czajkowski> maybe encourage them to join the team perahaps
<SergioMeneses> +1
<SergioMeneses> totally agree
<Cracknel> we have some plans for this and will probably be discussed on the next IRC meeting
<SergioMeneses> ok.. we are ready to vote
<SergioMeneses> #vote please vote on the re approval of the Romania loco
<meetingology> Please vote on: please vote on the re approval of the Romania loco
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<huats> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from huats
<czajkowski> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from czajkowski
<greg-g> +1 # great work, great re approval application, keep of the great work!
<meetingology> +1 # great work, great re approval application, keep of the great work! received from greg-g
<itnet7> +1
<xdatap1> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from itnet7
<meetingology> +1 received from xdatap1
<SergioMeneses> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from SergioMeneses
<SergioMeneses> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: please vote on the re approval of the Romania loco
<meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<Cracknel> Thanks :)
<huats> great !
<huats> great work, continue like that !
<SergioMeneses> congratulations Cracknel
<itnet7> Good job Cracknel and Ubuntu-ro!!
<greg-g> congrats and continue to be great!
<IngForigua> felicitaciones
<andresmujica> congrats Cracknel  and ubuntu-ro !
<greg-g> next!
<SergioMeneses> #topic Colombian Reapproval
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Colombian Reapproval
<SergioMeneses> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ColombianTeam/ReApprovalApplication2012
<SergioMeneses> hello andresmujica
<andresmujica> hi SergioMeneses  !
<andresmujica> hello czajkowski greg-g itnet7  huats !
<andresmujica> hello everyone
<itnet7> Hey there andresmujica !
 * greg-g waves
<huats> hello andresmujica
<SergioMeneses> andresmujica, you have a great application
<czajkowski> andresmujica: hey there
<czajkowski> lovely artwork
<SergioMeneses> andresmujica, can you tell us something about the mesh project?
<andresmujica> I'm here on behalf of Ubuntu Colombia Team , so we're ready for the reapproval process :)
<czajkowski> andresmujica: so tell us about your team
<andresmujica> thanks czajkowski thanks SergioMeneses
<andresmujica> sure
<andresmujica> Ubuntu Colombia is a team that is constantly evolving
<andresmujica> it has been the start point for several others projects all over our country
<andresmujica> one of those is the mesh project that SergioMeneses  is asking about.
<itnet7> andresmujica: /win 4
<itnet7> lol
<andresmujica> that's an amazing project
<itnet7> sry
<SergioMeneses> itnet7, je
<andresmujica> that has grown on the root s of several members from ubuntu colombia
<andresmujica> hollman, and IngForigua  whom are present here.
<itnet7> the Mesh project seems very cool indeed!
<andresmujica> anyway
<andresmujica> Ubuntu Colombia has grown by itself
<andresmujica> we're currently about 3000 members
<IngForigua> Hello :)
<andresmujica> counting all of our followers on social networks
<andresmujica> mailing lists
 * itnet7 waves to IngForigua 
<andresmujica> and non internet connected members
<itnet7> Nice andresmujica !
<huats> I really like your application
<SergioMeneses> huats, +1
<huats> and the growing number of Ubuntu member is just awesome
<czajkowski> andresmujica: so do you see any issues for your loco coming up?
<andresmujica> +1 huats
<SergioMeneses> and they have a lot of events http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-co/events/history
<andresmujica> czajkowski, well in fact i do see some issues.  Probably the biggest one right know is that we've got a local council in charge of helping the team to flow
<andresmujica> and sometimes is hard for a newcomer to the Ubuntu Colombia team to understand the proper role of our council
<andresmujica> usually the people are expecting that someone else do stuff and activities and things like that
<czajkowski> andresmujica: yes can you tell us more about this
<andresmujica> and it's hard to empower them so they can organize by themselves those activities.
<itnet7> andresmujica: that's always difficult when new people come on board and are learning the ropes about the team
 * IngForigua Ubuntu-co rocks :P
<SergioMeneses> #voters greg-g czajkowski SergioMeneses itnet7 huats xdatap1
<meetingology> Current voters: SergioMeneses czajkowski greg-g huats itnet7 xdatap1
<andresmujica> however the model is working
<andresmujica> just fine
<andresmujica> with improvements coming
<czajkowski> andresmujica: nods do you think the team needs a council and what extra powers does it bring to your team?
<huats> +1
<xdatap1> +1
<andresmujica> czajkowski, i do believe that the team needs to be self sufficient and that means that it should not be dependeant on only one person, it should be dependant on several.. the more the merrier :)
<SergioMeneses> andresmujica, great work! we are ready to vote
<itnet7> good point andresmujica !
<czajkowski> ok
<SergioMeneses> #vote please vote on the re approval of the Colombian LoCo
<meetingology> Please vote on: please vote on the re approval of the Colombian LoCo
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<czajkowski> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from czajkowski
<greg-g> +1 :)
<meetingology> +1 :) received from greg-g
<itnet7> +1
<xdatap1> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from itnet7
<meetingology> +1 received from xdatap1
<SergioMeneses> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from SergioMeneses
<hollman> :D iujuu
<andresmujica> :D  yuupppiiii  :)
<huats> congrats to your team !
<hollman> good work my team u-co
<Costeelation> :')
<hollman> **our
<SergioMeneses> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: please vote on the re approval of the Colombian LoCo
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion carried
<andresmujica> thank you czajkowski greg-g xdatap1 itnet7 huats SergioMeneses :)
<SergioMeneses> andresmujica, excellent work!
<huats> Thanks to you !
<SergioMeneses> congratulations
<hollman> thanks all
<itnet7> great work, keeop it up Ubuntu-CO!!!
<huats> for your great job
<SergioMeneses> hollman, IngForigua \o
<Costeelation> congratulations guys
<IngForigua> nice
<IngForigua> felicitaciones
<IngForigua> jojojo
<andresmujica> thank you SergioMeneses you've done a great work too!
<SergioMeneses> #topic Serbian Reapproval
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Serbian Reapproval
<uros1> Hello from Belgrade, speaking in name of Serbian Ubuntu LoCo team, members present are bojce coordinator, olujicz, Beretta021, promis, maletaski, Rainmaker and me.
<SergioMeneses> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SerbianTeam/ReApprovalApplication2012
<itnet7> Welcome uros1 and the Serbian Team!!
<uros1> serb pepople ssay hi
<bojce> Hello everyone
<SergioMeneses> bojce, uros1 hello
<czajkowski> oh more lovely artwork!
<czajkowski> yay
<maletaski> hello
<czajkowski> :)
<czajkowski> http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-rs/events/history  nice to see
<czajkowski> uros1: how is your team doing ?
<uros1> tnx we have god two years
<czajkowski> Can we help ?
<itnet7> beautiful job on the re-approval page!
<SergioMeneses> great
<uros1> In the last two years,  the main problem was material delivery â CD's, due to strict customs regulations in Serbia.   The team hasn't found adequate solution for this problem, and we  appreciate your understanding of this
<uros1> Dialogue with state institutions regarding Ubuntu and FLOSS adoption within the government system remains strategic goal of the team; the results accomplished by now raise hopes, and we believe that Council's support in the process could be stronger and more intensive.
<uros1> On demand from Ministry of communications (Department of Digital society) Team is currently  in process of making tutorials for general audience, on topic how to adopt Ubuntu and how to adopt FLOSS applications in business environment
<uros1> This is major step forward in dialogue between Team and state administration
<czajkowski> uros1: so have you beenable to receive the cds from shipit ?
<uros1> only for 11.04
<uros1> looking for solution, trust me
<czajkowski> what is the issue what happpens?
<uros1> custom problem
<SergioMeneses> taxes?
<czajkowski> uros1: and have you contacted shippit to see if they will help
<uros1> Serbia was part of ex Yugoslavia
<czajkowski> they do help where they can
<uros1> so still big problem with custom, CD`s are subject of import
<uros1> yes I know
<huats> uros1: is it for CD received from anywhere ?
<uros1> so i say again, looking for proper solutin
<uros1> One time Montenegro Loco split 11.04 cd`s with us
<huats> uros1: that was my idea
<huats> would it be possible to send 2 pack to montenegro by instance and that you split ?
<huats> not a perfect solution ...
<uros1> yes, that is god solution!
<itnet7> +1 huats !
<uros1> very god solution if it`s possible
<SergioMeneses> huats, maybe
<huats> uros1: czajkowski may contradict me but you can ask that your Cd to be shipepd somewhere else
<czajkowski> hmmm
<SergioMeneses> but we have to speak with montenegro about this
<czajkowski> not sure about that
<czajkowski> I know somtimes canonical have kindly also helped pay for the vat on customs
<huats> czajkowski: but that might worth doing a kind of exception
<huats> (well at least to ask :)
<uros1> czajkowski: can we be in contact about this in future?
<itnet7> Well, now that we are aware of the issue, we can at least ask offline and see if it's possible
<czajkowski> uros1: of course
<uros1> cool
<uros1> so  on the other hand, good old customers support, answering their demands on daily basis has been improved almost to perfection, and unsolved problems are almost non-existant.
<uros1> in forum
<huats> great to hear
<uros1> old-fashioned everyday work :)
<SergioMeneses> uros1, great work! we are ready to vote
<SergioMeneses> #vote
<meetingology> Please vote on:
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<huats> +1 !
<huats> +1
<czajkowski> +1
<SergioMeneses> +1
<itnet7> +1
<xdatap1> +1
<SergioMeneses> #endvote
<meetingology> No vote in progress
<czajkowski> well it's passed :)
<czajkowski> so well done
<SergioMeneses> sure
<xdatap1> congratulations
<itnet7> Sure, Congratulations!!!
<bojce> thanks all
<huats> congrats !
<SergioMeneses> congratulations Serbian team
<Rainmaker_> thanks
<maletaski> thanms
<uros1> tnx Councill!!
<itnet7> Great work uros1 and Team!!!
<czajkowski> SergioMeneses: thank you for chairing!
<SergioMeneses> czajkowski, dont worry
<SergioMeneses> #action SergioMeneses update LP approved locos
<meetingology> ACTION: SergioMeneses update LP approved locos
<itnet7> Thanks for chairing SergioMeneses !
<huats> thanks for sharing SergioMeneses
<SergioMeneses> #action itnet7  to update the wiki and team report with meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: itnet7  to update the wiki and team report with meeting
<SergioMeneses> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Aug 21 20:49:15 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-21-20.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-21-20.02.html
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-08-22
<head_victim> Good evening all, looking around for quorum for the 1200 Membership board as well as seeing if the applicant Ravi Kumar is here tonight.
<head_victim> Appears Ravi isn't here tonight
<smartboyhw> Uh oh.
<Destine> head_victim, any other applicants?
<head_victim> Destine: not on the wiki page
<smartboyhw> head_victim: Is there a law that said if the applicant is not present in the meeting for a certain number of times he will be banned from applying membership?
<Destine> smartboyhw, not yet afaik.
<smartboyhw> Hmm, you should set one, I think.
<smartboyhw> Though I'm not even a member...
<Destine> smartboyhw, good idea.
<head_victim> smartboyhw: no, we generally just email them to see what the issue is and discuss it.
<head_victim> We shouldn't be jumping to worst case scenarios without information. It's possible there's legitimate reasons.
<smartboyhw> Hmm weird: head_victim says no and Destine says yes?
<Pendulum> smartboyhw: we also take them off the list after a certain number of meetings. If they really want it, they have to re-add themselves. I don't see a reason to permanently ban anyone from applying
<Pendulum> especially not based on not making a meeting
<smartboyhw> OK, sorry, just a suggestion
<Destine> smartboyhw, i said yes only under the condition that they are applying not for its own sake.
<Destine> like just to play with us.
<smartboyhw> Destine: OK.
<smartboyhw> OK, QA meeting in 10 minutes, phillw is chair
<smartboyhw> phillw: You here or what>
<phillw> yes
<phillw> 40 seconds?
<smartboyhw> balloons: ping
<smartboyhw> When balloons reply let's start:)
<phillw> smartboyhw: please let the chair do his job?
<smartboyhw> I know
<balloons> lol
<smartboyhw> Yay!
<phillw> #startmeeting Ubuntu QA - agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Aug 22 14:01:08 2012 UTC.  The chair is phillw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu QA - agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings Meeting | Current topic:
<phillw> #topic attendance
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu QA - agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings Meeting | Current topic:  attendance
<phillw> can those present please asy o/
<smartboyhw> o/
<phillw> *say*
<balloons> o/
<phillw> #topic previous actions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu QA - agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings Meeting | Current topic:  previous actions
<phillw> balloons: have you actioned the one from 2 weeks ago?
<phillw> ACTION:Â balloons editÂ http://qa.ubuntu.com/Â to reflect correct time of weekly meeting (phillw, 14:57:28)
<smartboyhw> phillw: I looked at qa.ubuntu.com, and I think balloons hasn't done it.
<balloons> phillw, theres an open rt with ops to fix
<balloons> i cannot do this myself
<balloons> the reason is someone made it part of the theme
<phillw> balloons: is this okay to carry over to be chased?
<balloons> yea.. really :p
<balloons> yes, carry
<phillw> #action balloons to chase up the incorrect meeting time on qa.ubuntu.com
<meetingology> ACTION: balloons to chase up the incorrect meeting time on qa.ubuntu.com
<phillw> #topic Ubuntu updates
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu QA - agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu updates
<phillw> balloons: would be so kind as to give the current state of play?
<balloons> sure
<balloons> 12.04.1 for ubuntu testing is fairly complete
<balloons> there's been a couple bugs targetted for inclusion should a respin need to occur, but that's not happened
<balloons> on the flavors side, I know there has been some upgrade failure bugs :-)
<balloons> ..
<phillw> 12.04.1 is for a later topic, but thanks. how is Quantel going?
<smartboyhw> #link http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/219/builds
<balloons> ahh :-)
<balloons> quantal has seen some new testing efforts with unity and compiz this week
<balloons> that i think is going well, with some folks getting the first pass at llvmpipe and reporting bugs
<balloons> I clarified my thoughts on cadence testing, and talked a bit about the future. arm daily builds are currently broken in quantal due to the unity3d move
<balloons> in addition, nvidia driver is broken causing some havoc among the community depending on the driver to run quantal and unity3d
<balloons> (since unity2d has been dropped)
<balloons> discussions as to how this was handled will happen later, although, as I mentioned, I would like to see us change how we handle changes like this in the future
<balloons> we don't have stability outside of milestones..
<balloons> ..
<phillw> thanks.
<smartboyhw> :)
<phillw> #topic discussion of test cases on iso tracker
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu QA - agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings Meeting | Current topic:  discussion of test cases on iso tracker
<phillw> I'll start this one...
<phillw> The moving to 'old' of test cases without 'new' has caused issues
<smartboyhw> phillw: That's not moving:(
<phillw> This really does need to looked into.
<phillw> balloons: smartboyhw maybe we should move to the last sub-topic?
<balloons> phillw, I'm unsure what your saying here
<smartboyhw> balloons: I agree
<phillw> balloons: I went to carry out a test on behalf of a team and was met with a redundant test example, with no updated information available.
<smartboyhw> phillw: I don't understand now, really
<balloons> ?
<balloons> precise sadly is using the old testcases
<balloons> updating the links would take a bit.. and this is the last time it will be used. I let it go
<phillw> it simply said that the test case was 'old'
<phillw> smartboyhw: does help explain it for you?
<balloons> phillw, I'm confused.. I guess move on and we'll come back
<smartboyhw> phillw: I'm more confused with your lines 8 lines above.
<phillw> #topic Updating Wiki
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu QA - agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings Meeting | Current topic:  Updating Wiki
 * njin arrived
<phillw> balloons: with your permission, I'll put in an action for us both to catch our breath & have a concerted effort once again, to get it more new comer friendly?
<phillw> welcome njin
<njin> hallo everybody
<balloons> phillw, the fight must go on :-0
<smartboyhw> welcome njin
<balloons> but i think we are in a good spot
<balloons> i plan to maybe make a new video
<smartboyhw> Actually I forgot to add a G+ and FB topic to the agenda...
<phillw> #action phillw balloons to continue to update Wiki
<meetingology> ACTION: phillw balloons to continue to update Wiki
<phillw> smartboyhw: it can be disussed at AOB
<smartboyhw> OK
<phillw> I can skip 12.04.1 as we have already had an update.
<smartboyhw> Wait, I saw Mythbuntu images not tested now
<phillw> #topic Any Other business, over load of QA team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu QA - agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings Meeting | Current topic:  Any Other business, over load of QA team
<balloons> o/
<phillw> smartboyhw: it's here
<phillw> balloons: please take the floor
<smartboyhw> phillw: ?
<balloons> I also wanted to mention I ended some testing campaigns this week that had run there course
<balloons> I'll post some followup feedback and thank yous
<smartboyhw> OK
<balloons> ..
<phillw> balloons: just for discussion, I think QA attempted a 'bridge too far'.
<smartboyhw> phillw: What bridge?:)
<phillw> smartboyhw: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Market_Garden
<smartboyhw> ?
<smartboyhw> I'm not used to you guys showing Wiki links that I don't understand.
<smartboyhw> What? balloons left?
<smartboyhw> Oh, he's back:)
<balloons> whoa... sorry
<njin> balloons, your dog pllayng with the power cqable ?
<balloons> lol..
<balloons> me hitting ctrl + w
<smartboyhw> njin: +1, LOL and :P
<balloons> dog is napping
<balloons> sorry phillw, ask again
<phillw> balloons: I think that trying to do re-writes of testing cases, carrying on standard release testing, bringing in cadence testing, testing 12.04.1 was too much for our resources to cope with.
<smartboyhw> phillw: 12.04.1 will end today
<phillw> This has resulted in some frustrated testers.
<smartboyhw> phillw: Who are the frustrated testers, BTW?:(
<phillw> smartboyhw: I do not need to name people. nor would I ever.
<smartboyhw> OK, but I thought it isn't too much, just 3 items after today or tmr
<balloons> phillw, yes, alot has been asked of QA this cycle
<njin> of course, this is Q cicle
<phillw> balloons: I fear too much has. The last thing I want is for testers to say 'this is getting silly' and walk away.
<smartboyhw> phillw: No.
<phillw> I did promise that I would bring the matter up.
<balloons> phillw, burnout potential will always be with us, no matter our workload
<balloons> i would remind everyone to make sure they keep there own workloads sane :-)
<phillw> balloons: it can be reduced by not asking them to do 3 tasks at one?
<balloons> it's important to pause.
<balloons> phillw, perhaps the issue at hand here is people feeling obligated to help on every bit of testing
<smartboyhw> balloons: That's my case:)
<phillw> balloons: they are dedicated people, and fell personally that they have failed if they do not 'keep up'. i do ask that this is borne in mind in future.
<balloons> I would rather them see 3 things going on as an oppurtunity to chose one to invovle themselves
<smartboyhw> balloons: I want to join all 3...:(
<balloons> I know.. if I ask for 4 things at once, and one doesn't seemingly get attention...
<balloons> the people will do it anyway
<balloons> and I'm very grateful for that
<balloons> but yes, that leads to burnout.. and I don't want that at all
<phillw> balloons: indeed it is. we need to address the issue of 'where to concentrate our resources', they are not infinite.
<balloons> ahh! the issue of what we test and what we work on is more concrete
<smartboyhw> balloons and phillw: Does that mean we will only let people to select 1 or 2 tests to do?
<balloons> that we can speak specifically too
<balloons> smartboyhw, you are always free to test in whatever capacity you wish
<balloons> as is everyone else..
<balloons> i do try to space things out and allow for pauses, but it's not always possible
<balloons> that said,, if there are feelings of frivilous testing going on. let's discuss specifically
<phillw> balloons: yes, but we do need to rate which is 'please do this one, the others can wait to another day when you have slept and have time'
<smartboyhw> OK thx balloons
<smartboyhw> phillw: I think the standard one is better
<phillw> balloons: if it not made possible, then the release cycle requires looking at.
<balloons> phillw, I can try and communicate the 'please be kind to yourself!' mantra when I push things out
<balloons> for instance, the unity testing overlapping 12.04.1
<balloons> I didn't want it to happen, but it did. however, there are folks who don't iso test, who could go out and mess with it right away
<phillw> that would be one... cadence overlapping milestones would be another
<smartboyhw> Actually, 12.04.1 will be ending today, right??? It's 12.04.2 coming. Now I'm confused
<balloons> if your isotesting 12.04.1... perhaps that's enough, and you can test unity if you wish later
<njin> ell but I think that this is not the right time to evaluate things, too many works and really few people cause vacations
<smartboyhw> balloons: I don't have more to test.
<phillw> I still have no deffinitive answer to the testers. "What is the priority each week?"
<phillw> maybe that could be done?
<smartboyhw> phillw: It would be difficult
<balloons> phillw, sure..
<smartboyhw> 1st week: Unity 2nd week: Cadence 3rd week: Unity 4th Week: Milestone?
<balloons> if we are working from deadlines, this week is 12.04.1
<smartboyhw> Well, today IS the deadline for 12.04.1 testing, am I correct?:)
<phillw> balloons: indeed, and a major problem in upgrade-manager has been found that will result in a 'no-go'
 * balloons notes they are respinning the alts as we speak
<smartboyhw> balloons: True
<smartboyhw> Also Mythbuntu
<phillw> 10.04.4 --> 12.04 is a massive fail. This should have been caught much earlier, but the testers were running around doing other testing.
<balloons> phillw, well..
<balloons> this is a big topic.. I'm not sure opening that can of worms would be productive
<balloons> let's push forward to what you want to see in the future
<smartboyhw> I think we should discuss it in #ubuntu-testing instead...
<phillw> balloons: maybe next time testers are asked to do stuff, maybe explain back that they are as rare as rocking horse droppings? :P
<smartboyhw> :D
<balloons> :D
<balloons> ..
<smartboyhw> ..
<njin> yeah, we have to put more attention on lts to lts+1
<phillw> balloons: that is what I was hoping to do.
<jibel> phillw, which problem in upgrade-manager are you talking about ?
<jibel> but number ?
<jibel> bug
<njin> I'we only run one test and it was working
<phillw> jibel: I have the logs from #kubuntu-devel, but that is not for a meeting
<phillw> can we all migrate to #ubuntu-testing and discuss? this is not strictly a "meeting" topic?
<jibel> phillw, ok, paste it on #ubuntu-testing, I'd like to know what a "massive fail" is
<smartboyhw> phillw: I AGREE
<phillw> please move to #ubuntu-testing
<smartboyhw> Let's end the meeting!
<phillw> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Aug 22 14:54:55 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-22-14.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-22-14.01.html
<smartboyhw> Thanks phillw and please migrate to #ubuntu-testing
<infinity> o/
<jodh> \o
<ogra_> yo
<stokachu> o/
 * slangasek waves
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Aug 22 15:03:55 2012 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<slangasek> #topic lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek ogra infinity cjwatson xnox stokachu)
<slangasek> infinity doko stgraber bdmurray slangasek stokachu ogra cjwatson barry jodh ev xnox
 * xnox win!
 * barry sets his alarm to wake up in 30m
<infinity> - Fresh round of kernel SRUs this week
<infinity> - Other AA and SRU tasks
<infinity> - A few FTBFS fixes
<infinity> - Lots of babysitting buildds during and after the DC move
<infinity> - Started work on livefs-in-soyuz on the lp-buildd side
<infinity> - Started looking at old kernel cleanup
<infinity> - d-i upload and tracking fallout from new xorg-server deps
<cjwatson> livefs-in-soyuz> yay yay yay
<infinity> Also, forgot to sleep last night.
<infinity> [...]
<slangasek> doko: your turn
<doko> - merge binutils cross patches from linaro
<doko> - binutils update to support aarch64 and x32
<doko> - gcc-snapshot update
<doko> - gcc-4.4, gcc-4.6 updates (should be "final")
<doko> - gcc bug triage
<doko> (done)
<stgraber> - 12.04.1
<stgraber>  - 12.04.1 team meeting and minutes
<stgraber>  - Verified a bunch of SRUs.
<stgraber>  - Continuing release process.
<stgraber>  - Fixed 10.04 to 12.04 upgrades using media only and regressions introduced by the fixes.
<stgraber>  - ISO and upgrade testing
<stgraber> - Containers
<stgraber>  - Rebased lxc-api-and-python branch, working on a few changes, will be pushed upstream and in Ubuntu before FF
<stgraber> - TODO this week
<stgraber>  - Continue the work on 12.04.1.
<stgraber> - Will be traveling to Montreal on Monday (on 3G while on the bus) and to San Diego on Tuesday for Plumbers
<stgraber> (DONE)
<bdmurray> bug triage of iso testing bug reports
<bdmurray> bug triage of ubuntu-release-upgrader duplicates of bug 930839
<bdmurray> research into and data gathering of how people modify /etc/default/grub
<bdmurray> work on bug 1020994 error reports missing data
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 930839 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "update-manager crashed with SIGABRT in __assert_fail_base(): Assertion !xcb_xlib_unknown_req_in_deq failed in dequeue_pending_request" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/930839
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1020994 in apport (Ubuntu Precise) "Ensure whoopsie sends complete crash files to the error tracker" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1020994
<bdmurray> worked on and pushed a regression potential finding bug script for the SRU team
<bdmurray> reviewed and merged lp:~mvo/apt-clone/show-diff into apt-clone upstream bzr branch
<bdmurray> (DONE)
<stokachu> want me to go?
<ogra_> no, please stay !
<stokachu> haha
<ogra_> :)
<stokachu> slangasek: ?
<slangasek> one sec :)
<stokachu> ok
<slangasek>  * out sick last Thursday
<slangasek>  * discussions around llvmpipe on ARM; helped tjaalton prep the new mesa that we can use for testing this
<slangasek>  * 12.04.1 prep
<slangasek>  * discussions around whoopsie remaining enabled in 12.04.1 and getting better information from errors.u.c
<slangasek>  * moved from unity-2d to unity-3d^W unity, finding new bugs to be filed, and not finding my windows anymore
<slangasek>   * suggestions on how to restore the metacity-like window switcher welcome
<slangasek>  * reviews for multiarch library SRUs
<slangasek> (done)
<stokachu> bug #932860 - needs review, sponsor
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 932860 in appmenu-gtk (Ubuntu Precise) "Broken (or missing) multiarch support" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/932860
<stokachu> bug #977964 - needs review, sponsor
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 977964 in libart-lgpl (Ubuntu Precise) "Please transition libart-lgpl to multi-arch" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/977964
<stokachu> bug #977959 - needs review, sponsor
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 977959 in libgnome (Ubuntu Precise) "Please transition libgnome to multi-arch" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/977959
<stokachu> bug #1036834 - needs review, sponsor, and possible acceptance into precise nomiated series.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1036834 in gdb (Ubuntu) "gdb should be marked "Multi-arch: allowed"" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1036834
<stokachu> bug #154086 - needs acceptance into precise series, and discussion if workaround is a viable fix for inclusion. (comment 12)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 154086 in partman-auto-lvm (Ubuntu) "Installing to HDD with previous ubuntu fails to create fresh LVM claiming group already in use" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/154086
<stokachu> (done)
<slangasek> stokachu: yep, 932860 is on my list... I saw that you had some trouble finding a patch pilot to take it up, sorry about that :/
<slangasek> 977964 was on my list as well; I hadn't seen 977959 until now, adding
<stokachu> slangasek: np, seems like not many people like multi-arch
<slangasek> heh :)
<ogra_> done:
<ogra_> * a fully virtualized bamboo-feeder using the omap3 server image (with automatic daily testing now, will publish regular results shortly)
<ogra_> * flash-kernel preEnv.txt support is done, pending upload later today
<ogra_> * various bug triages fixes etc
<ogra_> * helped fixing bug 1018907, thanks rsalveti for doing teh heavy lifting work in plymouth !
<ogra_> todo:
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1018907 in plymouth (Ubuntu Quantal) "plymouth in quantal on arm does only boot with black screen" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1018907
<ogra_> * bug 1028905
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1028905 in cdrom-detect (Ubuntu Quantal) "cdrom-detect in quantal omap4 hangs trying to look for install media on an extended partition" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1028905
<ogra_> * PVR, nvidia-tegra, unity-2d, whatever ... desktop on arm fixing ...
<ogra_> * progress with the bamboo-feeders and publish daily results
<ogra_> * probably add an ac100 to the bamboo-feeder too
<ogra_> * prepare for beta
 * xnox stokachu i will look into partman-lvm bug, after feature freeze, cause it does affect quantal & now ubiquity as well....
<ogra_> and on a sidenote i just got a new BT kbd ... just to notice that BT in ubuntu apparently cant drive both devices at the same time
<ogra_> :(
<ogra_> ..
<stokachu> xnox: ok cool, this was a request from support and i haven't honestly looked into it
<stokachu> seems valid though
<ogra_> (both devices = BT headset and kbd)
<slangasek> adding an ac100 to a bamboo feeder would surely be cannibalism
<xnox> stokachu: yes, it is very very valid =)
<ogra_> haha
<stokachu> xnox: cool thanks for putting on your radar
<slangasek> cjwatson: your turn
<slangasek> ogra_: there should be no reason that BT generally would fail to drive both devices; could be an adapter-specific problem?
<slangasek> (the stack certainly supports multiple simultaneous BT pairings)
<ogra_> slangasek, well, i have two usb adapters (one came with the kbd) either the kbd stops taking input and disconnects or the audio gets choppy and the headset disconnects
<cjwatson> Packaged libisoburn 1.2.4 and made some initial steps to using it in our CD builds (just amd64 for now to make EFI hybrid ISO9660/USB work; HFS+ hybrid as soon as I can make it work).
<ogra_> no matter which adapter i use
<cjwatson> Lots of merges.
<cjwatson> Increased apt's maximum override line length (bug 1038961).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1038961 in apt (Ubuntu Precise) "Maximum override line length is too short" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1038961
<cjwatson> Enabled biosdevname by default in d-i (bug 891258).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 891258 in biosdevname (Ubuntu) "Biosdevname auto enabled on Dell HW" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/891258
<cjwatson> Re-enabled a few lost hardening options (bug 1039554, bug 1039597).
<cjwatson> Giant live-build merge, requiring consequential changes to livecd-rootfs and ubuntu-defaults-builder.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1039554 in cyrus-sasl2 (Ubuntu) "Please re-enable PIE" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1039554
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1039597 in openbsd-inetd (Ubuntu) "Please re-enable PIE and BIND_NOW" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1039597
<cjwatson> Removed the ubuntu-security celebrity from Launchpad, now that we have fully-working Archive.copyPackage.
<cjwatson> Cleaned up publisher timestamp handling (bug 1033581).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1033581 in Launchpad itself "Publisher should set modification times on Releases et al" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1033581
<cjwatson> Fixed some OOPSes when copying packages (bug 1023372, bug 1031089).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1023372 in Launchpad itself "Direct-copying an already-published package OOPSes" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1023372
<cjwatson> Working on an efilinux-signed package.  Will be uploaded today.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1031089 in Launchpad itself "PPA async copy attempting to "undelete" a package OOPSes" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1031089
<cjwatson> Working on final bits and pieces of python3-debian patch set.  Should be uploaded today.
<cjwatson> Switched back from unity-2d (which I've been using for months) to unity.  All surprisingly trouble-free so far.
<cjwatson> On holiday from Friday 24th to Friday 31st.
<cjwatson> ..
<slangasek> ogra_: maybe it's your personal EMF interfering with the frequency, not leaving enough bandwidth for both devices? :)
<xnox> ogra_: I use wireless keyboard & mouse with a special dongle (not BT) works much nicer =) it's microsoft ergonomic one.
<ogra_> heh
<barry> been working exclusively on the gwibber backend dbus service port to py3.  making great progress, but it's a huge port and not quite ready for integration and release.  a significant part of the work is to actually write tests for all the code being ported (including over dbus), which has already provided huge benefit.  may not be ready for ff, but upstream is already planning an ffe so the backend work will fall under that.  working
<barry> now on the hairiest class in the code base.  lp:~barry/gwibber/py3.  done.
<slangasek> ogra_: or it could just be wifi interference too, since it's all in the same band :(
<jodh> * misc:
<jodh>   - Thurday off.
<jodh>   - Booked flights and registered for UDS-R.
<jodh> * boot/upstart:
<ogra_> xnox, yeah, i have a logitech mouse with such a dongle
<jodh>   - Stateful re-exec:
<jodh>     - Got Upstart to re-register on D-Bus post-exec.
<jodh>     - Identified cause of post re-exec Upstart issues. Currently working
<jodh>       on fix.
<jodh>     - lots of tidy-up and minor bug fixes.
<jodh> Ï 
<ogra_> slangasek, well, if i add the second device it reliably kills the first one (if the second can connect at all) ... no matter what order
<stokachu> jodh: next week i'd like to see a unicorn
<ev> Week of Thursday, August 16th
<ev> - Continued discussion about whether 12.04 should have error reporting
<ev>   enabled.
<ev> - Finished the implementation of the django-openid-auth integration. As
<ev>   mentioned previously, this will let us cache login details and will form the
<ev>   foundation of having team-level views.
<ev> - Started working in the "90 day moving window" for the average problems per
<ev>   day denominator. Had to back fill 12.10 rows of unique system IDs per day,
<ev>   as we did before for 12.04. This was slowed down by the webops datacenter
<ev>   move. Ready to go, but blocked from landing by the django-openid-auth work,
<ev>   which is ahead in the queue.
<ev> - Made http://errors.ubuntu.com/?launchpad=false work. This will let us judge
<ev>   whether the timeouts we're seeing on the month view and sometimes on the day
<ev>   view are caused by talking to Launchpad.
<jodh> stokachu: is there not a btrfs glyph yet?
<ogra_> and there is not much wifi in my office (there are waves but not many devices... (one AP)
<ev> - Meeting with Tom.
<ev>   - Discussed the possibility of us handling deployment without involving
<ev>     webops. He'd like to see us get the infrastructure charmed and structured
<ev>     so deployments are push-button events, with scripts to handle both rollout
<ev>     and rollback.
<ev>   - He sounds okay with adding Hadoop to our infrastructure, which will let us
<ev>     open the data to more free-form queries. Filed an RT:
<ev>     https://rt.admin.canonical.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=55518
<stokachu> lol
<ev>   - He's going to look into getting the same amount of disk space in the
<ev>     staging cluster, as finding a way to sync data into a smaller cluster is
<ev>     currently blocking this much-needed ticket.
<ev>   - He raised the priority on getting Brian access to the database.
<ev> - Continued work on the "multiple problems in a single dialog branch of
<ev>   apport:
<ev>   https://code.launchpad.net/~ev/apport/multiple-simultaneous-errors
<ev>   However, Martin is not convinced we have sufficient data to show this is
<ev>   actually going to have a net-benefit when you factor in the confusion around
<ev>   talking about multiple problems in a single treeview. Not dropping it
<ev>   per-se, but dropping the priority to focus back on other work.
<ev> - Fixed a security vulnerability in daisy.ubuntu.com.
<ev> - Ran some numbers for Brian to determine whether the recent change to apport
<ev>   to fix the missing Packages field was having a detrimental impact.
<ev> - Finally got package version numbers in the drop-down box on
<ev>   errors.ubuntu.com. The data currently comes from Launchpad.
<ev> - Nearly finished implementing URL field specification for errors.ubuntu.com.
<ev>   So soon you'll be able to do this:
<ev>   https://errors.ubuntu.com/filter/+release/Ubuntu 12.10/+package/software-center/+version/5.3.0/+period/20120801
<ev> - Reviewed software-center's recoverable problem integration:
<ev>   https://code.launchpad.net/~mvo/software-center/polkit-lp785117/+merge/112292
<ev>   We have our first consumer, yay!
<ev> - Finally sent the first State of the Ubuntu Error Tracker email:
<ev>   https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2012-August/035636.html
<ev>   Hopefully this will bring more developers to the team and keep us all in
<ev>   sync. Suggestions always welcome on how we can make it even easier to get
<ev>   involved.
<ev> - Pointed http://wubi.sf.net to the downloads page, finally.
<ev> - Looked into RT 55339 for webops, which was about picking a better compaction
<ev>   strategy for the Cassandra cluster:
<ev>   https://rt.admin.canonical.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=55339
<ev> - More bug triage for errors and daisy.
<ogra_> dmesg
<ev> - Fixed wubi for dailies in 12.04.1.
<ev> (done)
<xnox> * Merges - done:
<xnox>  - mdadm, cryptsetup and lvm2 uploaded (thanks slangasek for reviewing lvm2)
<xnox> * Ubiquity - done:
<xnox>  - removed pictograms on the ask page (regaining vertical space)
<xnox>  - made crypto passphrase page centred and fixed
<xnox>  - crypt option visible by default
<xnox> * Ubiquity - in progress:
<xnox>  - re-factoring advanced partitioner UI to fit/add crypt, lvm and raid options
<xnox>  - advanced partitioner encryption in progress
<xnox>  - "missed" encryption key sizes & algorithms in the design spec, mpt is on it.
<xnox> ââ¦â§
<slangasek> jodh: you saw that json-c 0.10 has been packaged?
 * ogra_ wonders if there isnt a way to force a bigger size for these utf toys on IRC
<ogra_> its really hard to recognize what they are
<jodh> slangasek: great news!
<cjwatson> jodh: shall I sync that into quantal for you?
<cjwatson> if nobody else has hit the button already
<slangasek> jodh: yep!  is there anything we need to coordinate with diwic before accepting it?
<jodh> slangasek: I believe he's happy if someone runs through then normal set of PA tests, but will double check...
<xnox> ogra_: is your desk made out of wood or metal?! made a massive difference to my wireless keyboard lagging
<cjwatson> well, just shout when you want it synced
<ogra_> wood
<xnox> ogra_: hmm...
<jodh> cjwatson: ta.
<slangasek> ev: so the timeouts on http://errors.ubuntu.com/?launchpad=false have been much less frequent; I've even occasionally been able to load the 12.04 month view.  Does that confirm that the timeouts are from the launchpad bits?
<ev> slangasek: I would have very much preferred it if you said, "the timeouts no longer exist with launchpad=false" :-/
<ev> slangasek: so yeah, I suspect the launchpad bits are playing a role
<ev> but there's more going on here
<cjwatson> Launchpad has had a good deal of teething trouble with the DC move, which has been worked on over the last couple of days, so I expect there's been some change due to that alone
 * ev pines for that JMX ticket to be finished
<slangasek> ev: hmm, that might be the case... let me pay closer attention over the next couple of days
<ev> I have a todo list item to check to make sure our etag checking is working
<ev> it kind of feels like it isn't
<ev> as subsequent loads on my local environment take just as long
<ev> which shouldn't happen with such caching
 * ogra_ has something else too 
<slangasek> xnox: so do encryption key sizes / algorithms really need to be part of the ubiquity UI?  As opposed to, say, a preseed?
<ogra_> i'm constantly asked by seb128 during the release meeting about https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-q-xdg-runtime-dir and https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-q-upstart-session-requirements ...
<ogra_> while slangasek already gave me feedback for the xdg spec it isnt really clear if the other one will happen at all in time for beta1
<jodh> ogra_: highly unlikely in my view.
<ogra_> if it doesnt we should probably contact the desktop team about it
<jodh> ogra_: I thought we were waiting on them to tell us relative priorities?
<ogra_> jodh, yep, i thought so
<slangasek> ogra_: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-q-upstart-session-requirements> note that this blueprint was marked 'low', because that session wound up being a laundry list of everything they wanted upstart to do
<ogra_> slangasek, i know, i was there :)
<xnox> slangasek: they will work in a preseed, it was a pointer to mpt to think about / design. Didn't start implementing them in the ubiquity UI. But it is somewhat important to at least state the options for certification & compliance.
<ogra_> i was actually surprised to see it accepted for quantal
<slangasek> ogra_: so, given that they acknowledged none of this was required, it was prioritized accordingly
<ogra_> k
<slangasek> xnox: ok
<slangasek> ogra_: the xdg thing, by contrast, was singled out as something they do have a significant need for, and we should still land that this cycle
<slangasek> #topic bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: bugs
<slangasek> is everyone getting their money's worth out of errors.ubuntu.com? :)
<ev> can I say yes?
<slangasek> sure!
<ogra_> at least some entertainment on the ubuntu-release ML :)
<infinity> I've paid nothing for it, and it's been worth every penny.
<ev> lol
<ogra_> heh
<slangasek> there was a sessioninstaller bug in quantal, regressing due to an aptdaemon behavior change, that we caught and fixed the other day
<slangasek> so that's good
<ev> there's an idea. Teach it to identify the uploaders who have the most detrimental impact on the quality of Ubuntu, then rank them in a new page with a donation form to send them on a holiday where Internet access is scarce.
<slangasek> oh cool, errors.u.c js just made my browser unresponsive
<slangasek> nuts to that
<ev> slangasek: get a better browser
<slangasek> ev: spoken like a true IE developer
<slangasek> bdmurray: anything you think needs more attention than it's getting?
<ev> slangasek: I'm one man. I can't support every platform. And it's high time you gave up Mosaic anyway.
<bdmurray> bug 985652 - its not clear to me if work is required by us there
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 985652 in Ubuntu Translations "Translations for "retrieving files" are not being used" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/985652
<slangasek> ev: hah
<ev> but I have no idea what debugging tools are available to you there, but if you can isolate the problem I'm happy to fix it
<slangasek> ev: it's firefox, so I have no idea what debugging tools are available either :P
<ev> firebug probably has something, I guess?
<slangasek> ev: but when I view 12.04+month, it gets really slow
<ev> hmm
<ev> I'll have a look at the javascript around that view and see if anything jumps out
 * slangasek looks at bug #985652
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 985652 in Ubuntu Translations "Translations for "retrieving files" are not being used" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/985652
<slangasek> ev: cheers
<jodh> ev: it'd be nice if when you change a pull down, it blanks the existing data.
<ev> jodh: can you elaborate?
<ev> you mean while loading?
 * xnox just lost irc at 16:35....
<jodh> ev: you get "loading..." but it keeps the existing data until either you get the new data or you get an error.
<jodh> ev: in fact the existing data is retained even if there is an error.
<ev> jodh: right. Can you file a bug against http://bugs.launchpad.net/errors/+filebug please?
<ev> mentioning the data being retained too, as I haven't seen that yet myself
<slangasek> cjwatson: so you commented on 985652 before release; any idea what the problem is there?
<slangasek> could this be related to our locale disabling for logging?
<slangasek> if the string is from apt, this seems at least somewhat plausible
<slangasek> xnox: just talking about bugs
<xnox> slangasek: so you didn't see my question about three bugs?
<slangasek> ev, jodh: it would be nice to keep the old data there while the new load is in progress, it gives me something to look at while the browser is busy :D
<slangasek> xnox: no
<ev> slangasek: hmm, good point
<jodh> slangasek/ev: bug 1040140.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1040140 in Errors "error tracker should remove/grey out existing data when user changes display options" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1040140
<cjwatson> slangasek: I don't think I actually ever managed to trace that.  The locale disabling is meant to be arranged such that it's just for dpkg
<slangasek> cjwatson: ah, ok
<xnox> no plymouth LUKS prompt after full-disk encryption install. Couple of similar
<xnox> bugs, here is one from myself.
<xnox> bug 1038055
<xnox> Should this be targeted for Quantal beta-2 or something like that?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1038055 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "cannot unlock LUKS devices / video mode not activated" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1038055
<cjwatson> Not that I can remember where *that*'s implemented
<xnox> Also, please comment and share dev-mapper/udev wisdom on how to fix these two bugs in a sane way without breaking the whole world.
<xnox> bug 460906
<xnox> bug 995709
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 460906 in lvm2 (Ubuntu) "disk/by-uuid/foo symlink points to snapshot rather than the origin" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/460906
 * cjwatson greps frenetically
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 995709 in lvm2 (Ubuntu) "lvm should not scan the entire /dev tree by default" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/995709
<cjwatson> Ah yes, DPKG_UNTRANSLATED_MESSAGES
<slangasek> bdmurray: so I think the answer on 985652 is that yes, action is needed, but it's not obvious how to fix
<cjwatson> So ubiquity does set DPKG_UNTRANSLATED_MESSAGES, but apt ignores that
<cjwatson> (Rightly so)
<bdmurray> slangasek: okay
<xnox> cjwatson: ok, but what locale do we spawn apt in? /me can't remember seeing translated apt logs during live-cd. Will test while doing other ubiquity work.
<cjwatson> It should be in the installation locale
<cjwatson> It's possible that the locale isn't generated?
<slangasek> xnox: 460906> don't use by-uuid for dm devices
<cjwatson> Because doing so is very slow and takes oodles of memory
<slangasek> cjwatson: but surely if the rest of the UI is translated, the locale is there?
<cjwatson> No, because ubiquity makes special arrangements for itself
<slangasek> ah
<cjwatson> Its own translations come from debconf, which doesn't care whether the locale is generated
<cjwatson> We do generate the locale at some point, so it may just be a matter of messing about to pull that earlier
<cjwatson> I can give that a g
<slangasek> xnox: so my position is that bug #460906 is medium importance at highest; we never use UUID to identify dm devices when setting up /etc/fstab in the installer, because this is a known issue
<cjwatson> *go
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 460906 in lvm2 (Ubuntu) "disk/by-uuid/foo symlink points to snapshot rather than the origin" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/460906
<xnox> slangasek: but update-grub notices them (if they are mounted) and generates entries for them....
<slangasek> xnox: so anyone who's trying to reference their lvm devices by uuid has a gun pointed at their foot and we didn't put it there
<slangasek> xnox: ok; that's a bug in update-grub then
<xnox> slangasek: snapshots that is.
<xnox> slangasek: then should we stop generating those symlinks for lvm devices?
<slangasek> xnox: we should not spend time on the issue at all, because there's no perfect solution and the workarounds are well established
<xnox> ok.
<slangasek> but if update-grub is misbehaving (which I've never seen), that should be fixed
<slangasek> as for 995709... I have no idea :/
<slangasek> sorry
<slangasek> bug #1038055 is on my list to look at
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1038055 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "cannot unlock LUKS devices / video mode not activated" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1038055
<slangasek> anything else on bugs?
<bdmurray> bug 837054
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 837054 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Time Zone selection shows about 20 different "New York"s and doesn't autoselect my location" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/837054
<slangasek> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<xnox> bdmurray: i can implement a filter for it. Not sure if to do a set(location) or set(location, coordinates)
<slangasek> any other botanists?
<slangasek> can we prod the data provider about their broken data?
<bdmurray> that is all from me
<slangasek> otherwise, what ensures that "unique by coordinates" gives you the /right/ name?
<xnox> slangasek: well the data sometimes is good. for riga i get like "Riga", "Riga Internation Airport", "Riga Central", etc... but all of them are in the same timezone.
<xnox> all of Latvia is in the same timezone =)
<slangasek> xnox: ok, but if you look at the "New York" case, you see that a number of the values returned are translations of "New York City" into various languages
<slangasek> and there's nothing that tells which one should be preferred... unless you just take the first one in order, I guess?
<brendand> slangasek, it seems to me there's no good way to filter it and be sure that you've chosen the 'right' entry
<slangasek> yep
<brendand> slangasek, so the data is at fault really, not the code
<slangasek> hence my suggestion that we try to get the data provider to fix their feed
<brendand> slangasek, who's the data provider?
<slangasek> not sure
<ev> we are
<xnox> do we want to show: all names in the installer locale, or all names in "city language"
<brendand> slangasek, the server is an ubuntu one, so isn't it controlled by us?
<ev> effectively
<slangasek> ev: ah, heh ;)
<slangasek> ev: so who among us maintains it?
 * ev chuckles
<brendand> ev - you?
<infinity> slangasek: Are you chanelling seb?
<slangasek> xnox: can you please file an RT about this, referencing the bug?
<infinity> But with an extra 'n'...
<ev> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-geonames-hackers/ubuntu-geonames/trunk/files
<slangasek> oh
<slangasek> ok, so not an RT just yet :)
<ev> http://geoname-lookup.ubuntu.com/?query=New%20York
<brendand> ev, so we *don't* control it then
<slangasek> xnox: do you want to fix the above branch? :)
<ev> mterry also has hacked on it in the past, if I find myself under a bus once you've finished the branch
<xnox> ok then.
<infinity> ev: Want to add foundations to that team?  Or ubuntu-installer?  Or something that seems appropriate and larger than you and mterry?
<ev> sure
<slangasek> bdmurray: ok, triaged :)
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Aug 22 16:07:58 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-22-15.03.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-22-15.03.html
<slangasek> thanks everyone
<ogra_> thanks !
<ev> thanks
 * ogra_ goes out to get a BT 3.0 dongle
<ev> infinity: done on both
<jodh> thanks
<xnox> ogra_: British Telecom dongles aren't that good, just saying
<ogra_> lol
<ogra_> also hard to get in germany
<ev> xnox: T-Mobile's are decent
<ev> and cheap
<xnox> ev: but they are "Everything & Everywhere"
<ev> equally, if you have an iPhone, just create a hotspot
<xnox> cheers =)
<ev> that's what I do on Three and it's ace
<RamiAM> Hello
<RamiAM> can any one help me plz?
<TheLordOfTime> RamiAM:  help is in #ubuntu
<TheLordOfTime> /join #ubuntu
<TheLordOfTime> ^ to go there
<RamiAM> thnx
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-08-23
<shadeslayer> MOTU meeting in 10 minutes right?
<tumbleweed> right
<dholbach> yes :)
<dholbach> I can chair if somebody else does minutes :)
<dholbach> hum, that puts us in a bit of a deadlock situation :)
<dholbach> ok, let's start anyway
<dholbach> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Aug 23 16:02:45 2012 UTC.  The chair is dholbach. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<dholbach> agenda page is up at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings
<dholbach> micahg, around?
<dholbach> or anyone else who'd like to talk about sqlite?
<dholbach> #topic Killing off sqlite 2 (src:sqlite)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Killing off sqlite 2 (src:sqlite)
<dholbach> Personally I haven't checked quantal-changes too closely, so I don't know how much progress we made in this regard.
<tumbleweed> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/sqlite.html
<tumbleweed> not much progress, no
 * tumbleweed is also a little out of touch atm
<dholbach> I mentioned it in the minutes of the last meeting and on the bug fixing initiatives page, but maybe we need to launch another call for help with this
<dholbach> Ok, maybe somebody can send an email to the lists about this.
<shadeslayer> I could try and help a bit, if someone could explain what needs doing ;)
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/BugFixingInitiative#Moving_away_from_sqlite
<dholbach> Ah, it's not too much text - I can paste it:
<dholbach> We would like to get away from moving sqlite in favour of sqlite3. http://paste.ubuntu.com/1138024/ has a list of packages which need to be built with sqlite3, sometimes some porting work will be involved in making the switch. Be sure to check for new versions upstream which already moved over. Also are there around 10 packages which depend on python-sqlite and will need to be moved over as well.
<shadeslayer> alright
 * shadeslayer can give one of the packages a try tonight
<dholbach> when UDW is over I will start doing some more regular blog posts about specific bugs or specific targets - maybe this will help as well
<dholbach> thanks shadeslayer
<dholbach> #topic Update from DeveloperAdvisoryTeam.
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Update from DeveloperAdvisoryTeam.
<shadeslayer> right, it helps if you have a set of smaller packaging bugs that people can get started with
<dholbach> yes
<shadeslayer> oh look, kraft, I've worked on that before, so I can start with that
<dholbach> cool
<dholbach> In the advisory team we just recruited 2 new members, jokerdino and vibhavp who have been doing a great job until now.
<dholbach> And we're still reaching out to new contributors and get a lot of good feedback.
<dholbach> Closer to the release we'll release the feedback again.
<dholbach> That's all from your DAT.
<dholbach> #topic Review https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/BugFixingInitiative
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/BugFixingInitiative
<dholbach> shadeslayer, if you look at the wiki page - do you have any smaller packaging bugs we should put on there?
<shadeslayer> nothing off the top of my head, no
<dholbach> we should probably advertise this page even better - as it will likely help getting things done :)
<shadeslayer> I can try and compile a list of small packaging bugs in Kubuntu
<dholbach> great
<dholbach> that'd be awesome
<dholbach> if anybody else would have a look at the page and update it if necessary, that would be great - after UDW next week I'll have a look at it myself again
 * shadeslayer adds to TODO
<dholbach> excellent
<dholbach> #topic Any other business?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Any other business?
<shadeslayer> well ... question ...
<dholbach> sure
<shadeslayer> when considerign a new developer for a MOTU position
<shadeslayer> do you focus on universe work that person has done
<shadeslayer> or the ability to do packaging work
<shadeslayer> *considering
<dholbach> I'm not on the DMB, so I personally could just say what I /would/ do. :-)
<shadeslayer> sure
 * tumbleweed is on the DMB
<micahg> dholbach: no, no progress yet on sqlite, will try to get to it after feature freeze
<dholbach> but I assume that apart from a general demonstration of packaging skills and a track record of good work in Ubuntu, it will be interesting to see why MOTU upload rights would be relevant to them
<dholbach> micahg, ok cool
<shadeslayer> hm
<tumbleweed> it's about work done and ability and trust
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: ^ your opinion?
<tumbleweed> ability being less important than trust that the person won't go beyond their abilities
<shadeslayer> right
<tumbleweed> we do expect a certain level of skill, though
<shadeslayer> *nod*
<tumbleweed> motus are generalists, so they should already have a fairly wide packaging skillset
<shadeslayer> yeah, I want to expand my packaging skillset, which is why I plan on contributing more to Universe
 * dholbach hugs shadeslayer
<shadeslayer> that, and now that Kubuntu is in Universe ;)
<dholbach> :-)
<dholbach> ok cool - any more topics for us? :)
<shadeslayer> that's it from me :D
<dholbach> #topic Updating the wiki for next meeting / minutes
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Updating the wiki for next meeting / minutes
<dholbach> Is there anyone who could update the Wiki? :)
<tumbleweed> I'm fairly tied up right now, I'm afraid. But I could tomorrow
<dholbach> that'd be perfect
<dholbach> thanks a lot tumbleweed
<dholbach> thanks a lot everyone
<dholbach> that was a quick meeting :)
<dholbach> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Aug 23 16:21:13 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-23-16.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-23-16.02.html
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-08-24
 * skaet waves
<roadmr> hello!
<skaet> hiya roadmr
 * stgraber waves
 * smartboyhw waves
<popey> o/
 * gema_ is disappointed, but present
<skaet> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Aug 24 15:00:39 2012 UTC.  The chair is skaet. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<skaet> Agenda (and minute location):
<skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2012-08-24
<skaet> .
<skaet> Upcoming dates:
<skaet> 12.10
<skaet>     2012/08/30: Quantal Beta 1 Freeze and User Interface Freeze
<skaet>     2012/09/06: 12.10 Beta 1
<skaet> .
<skaet> Work Items:
<skaet> 2012/08/24 -  3011 (was 3011  (last  week):   We are behind the trendline for some of the projects.
<skaet> Weâve now gone into Feature Freeze, so getting us back on track would be appreciated.  If something is clearly not going to make it this cycle, please mark it POSTPONED.
<skaet> Please help get us back where we should be by making sure https://launchpad.net/~/+upcomingwork is up to date for your tasks.
<skaet> .
<skaet> Bugs:
<skaet> Quantal: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<skaet> .
<skaet> Weekly Status Received:
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001786.html - Kubuntu - Riddell
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001788.html - PS - popey
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001790.html - 12.04.1 testing - jibel
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001792.html - Kernel - ogasawara
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001794.html - Security - jdstrand
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001795.html - Ubuntu One - joshuahoover
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001798.html - Lubuntu - gilir
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001803.html - Edubuntu - stgraber
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001804.html - Linaro - fabo
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001805.html - Desktop - seb128
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001806.html - hwcert - brendand
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001807.html - QA - gema
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001808.html - foundations - ogra
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001813.html - server - arosales
<skaet> ?? - community testing - balloons
<skaet> ?? - Xubuntu - astraljava
<skaet> ?? - Ubuntu Studio - scott-work
<skaet> .
<skaet> Thank you to everyone participating in getting 12.04.1 released!   I was contrasting the number of bug fixes, reviews, image builds, testing we did with 10.04.1 informally  and weâve definitely upâd the game.   Well done!
<skaet> #topic Questions and Comments
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Questions and Comments
<skaet> So now that 12.04.1 is out the door, focus solidifies on 12.10  :)   Yesterday was Feature Freeze, and based on the burn down charts - its pretty clear there are some things coming in late.
<skaet> Open question for today is Feature Freeze exceptions - whatâs needed?
<skaet> any one have "o/" before I start into some questions?
 * seb128 lists desktop ffe exceptions in his email (sorry for sending it only today, I didn't have all the infos yesterday and we were still crazy busy landing work)
<skaet> popey - for the compiz features landing,  which bug is being used to track the FFe?  weâll be going into UIF next week - will UIFe be needed as well, or will all the bits land by then.
<skaet> seb128, yup understood
<popey> We haven't created a bug yet for FFe, guidance welcome in that regard. Do we have just one master FFe bug or individual bugs per feature?
<skaet> popey,  probably one per component, with what's planned to land would work.
<skaet> popey,  I'll get together with you afterwards then and we can sort it a bit.
<popey> ok, we can do that, do we need to subscribe a team/person?
<popey> ok, great, that will help
<popey> ...
<skaet> will all the pieces land by next Thursday (User Interface Freeze)?
<popey> almost certainly not
<skaet> hmm... so most of it won't make Beta 1 then.   yeah,  we'll need to be figuring out a plan, since this will ripple into multiple other teams (docs, translations etc.)
<smartboyhw> Er, balloons's smuumary: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001815.html
<seb128> popey, which ones do you see missing uif?
<popey> probably webapps
<ogra_> o/
 * skaet thanks smartboyhw for posting balloons summary
<smartboyhw> NP
<skaet> .. (I think)
<popey> oops yes, ..
<skaet> :)
<skaet> go ogra_
<ogra_> seb128, your report indicates you guys are looking into compiz GLES .... just wanting to make sure :)
<ogra_> ..
<seb128> ogra_, it's landed in compiz trunk
<ogra_> i know
<ogra_> but not in the archive :)
<seb128> we separated from compiz-gsettings to not have too much transitions going on at the same time
<seb128> and that needs to land with the new unity
<seb128> which is late on other things
<seb128> having gsettings out of the way will make the next update easier hopefully
<ogra_> right, i just want to know if i need to switch the panda images to openbox for final :)
<seb128> so gles and new unity are scheduled for next week (earlier than late if possible)
<seb128> ..
<ogra_> awesome, thanks !
<seb128> yw
<ogra_> ..
<seb128> (depends if you get drivers I gues)
<seb128> ..
<popey> +1 seb128 it'll be first thing we do next week
<popey> ..
<ogra_> we have drivers
<seb128> ok, so we should be good soon
<ogra_> just paperwork missing
<ogra_> libdri2 was uploaded to NEW before the meetingg, once thats in the archive i'll upload the PVR package and we are golden
<ogra_> ..
<rsalveti> \o/
<rsalveti> ..
<skaet> thanks.  :)  I think this just answered the question I was going to ask from fabo's report too.
<skaet> ..
<ogra_> :)
<skaet> seb128,  did you get together with TheMuso on the accessibility tests?   would be good to have that resolved before Beta1
<seb128> skaet, I didn't manage to catch him on IRC but I sent an email out this morning, will be resolved by next meeting for sure (if he doesn't reply I will just go ahead and make the test list)
<skaet> thanks seb128
<seb128> np, sorry it's taking so long :-(
<skaet> ..
<skaet> any one else have "o/" today?
<gema> o/
<skaet> go gema
<gema> I'd like to talk about the grief we've had in QA due to all the last minute respins
<gema> and how we are expected to react, rather than being able to plan
<gema> in my opinion
<gema> Quality is not about shipping without errors, it is about shipping predictable software, documenting the problems found gives us a better chance at the release than introducing new problems last minute trying to solve those
<stgraber> would you have preferred we ship with an image that doesn't fit on a media?
<gema> stgraber: yes
<gema> stgraber: because now we are shipping something that fits on a media but may have extra errors that we don't know about
<gema> stgraber: so I prefer to ship known quality than unknown quality
<brendand> stgraber, when you say 'fits on a media', you mean not even USB stick?
<slangasek> the 12.04 images are specified to fit on a CD
<stgraber> brendand: we're talking 12.04, 12.04 needs to fit on a standard 700MB media
<slangasek> if it's oversized, it's not fit to purpose
<stgraber> brendand: we had a last minute detected oversized image that required a respin yesterday
<stgraber> the real problem is that the image was build on the 17th and it took until the publishing, a few hours before release to notice it was oversized
<stgraber> so that means nobody tested using the target media (blank CD, standard size)
<brendand> gema - that does need to be part of QA, no?
<gema> brendand: ideally, that image should fail in the build system if it is oversized
<gema> brendand: but yeah, we should have a test case for that
<slangasek> no, that's not ideal
<Laney> I don't think that's ideal
<gema> why not?
<slangasek> there are many cases where we know we can't get the image down to size yet during development, but we still need to have an image available for testing
<gema> slangasek: I remember seeing warnings of that on the website where you publish the imates
<gema> images
<brendand> gema, i think it's the difference between releasing it and just having an image to test
<brendand> gema, you can *test* an oversized image, but you can't release it
<slangasek> we *should* catch oversized issues much sooner than when we're going to publish; the problem is that the only place the information is published is on cdimage.ubuntu.com, where no one was looking
<gema> I don't see why you cannot release it, but that is besides the point
<slangasek> (because the ISO tracker hides that implementation detail)
<gema> we can add a mandatory test case to the tracker so that we don't forget to check in the future
<gema> and issue solved
<gema> that's not my problem
<slangasek> gema: because we specified that we were releasing CD images for 12.04, and this was not a CD image
<slangasek> stgraber and I have discussed what needs to happen so that oversized images are flagged much earlier to the release team as well, so this particular problem doesn't recur
<gema> cool, slangasek, as I said, it is not one particular problem that bothers me
<stgraber> FWIW we didn't have any fallback image for amd64 and amd64+mac, so as we had the requirement of releasing a CD image, I had the option to fix + respin or not release the 64bit image
<slangasek> gema: right; I understand that
<gema> the respin on wed was equally problematic in my view
<gema> due to a corner case
<stgraber> I still think the decision to respin was right, I ran a full diff of the livefs and cd content, so I have the exact list of files that changed as well as their content, all the tests were ran against the 64bit livefs and they all passed
<gema> stgraber: I still think it is wrong, but it is ok to disagree on this
<gema> what I am more worried about is how lightly we take respinning
<gema> and how little consideration we give to QA in the process
<slangasek> I don't think it's being taken lightly at all
<stgraber> so we essentially released a fully tested image, if that's not the case, then something is wrong with the testcase list on the tracker, because they certainly were telling me everything was tested
<skaet> respinning is not taken lightly at all.
<Daviey> Yeah, i am quite suprised there is complaint at this.
<slangasek> it's a pain for everyone involved, both in QA and in the release team
<Daviey> repining is documented for the reasoning why
<slangasek> it's *more* of a pain for the QA team, certainly
<Daviey> There was at least one issue, which would have been nice to include.. but wasn't respan for, that i know of.
<stgraber> in this case, the pain was really on me more than QA to be honnest, I am the one who had to spend 3 hours fixing the image, do the respin, do the diffs and did most of the amd64 testing (while jibel was doing amd64+mac smoke test)
<slangasek> but even if QA was automatic and instantaneous, a respin still throws off the release team's schedule... we're having to react to such changes just as much as QA does
<gema> slangasek: I am not saying you guys are not suffering from it
<gema> I am saying it can be made less painful for everyone
<stgraber> we had to delay the release accordingly, making quite a lot of people on the release team work overtime (not to mention the folks in London who had to stay up until past midnight)
<gema> if we all work together towards that
<Daviey> well, the phrasing of "little consideration" does imply that care wasn't taken.
<gema> Daviey: I said taken lightly, I think
<Daviey> < gema> and how little consideration we give to QA in the process
<gema> but english is not my first language, so didn't try to offend anyone
<Daviey> but anyway.
<gema> ahh, ok, yes
<gema> that's how I felt and I have had conversations with other fellow testers which felt the same way
<gema> all I am asking for is to consider revising the process and introducing changes
<slangasek> how would you revise the process?
<skaet> gema, constructive suggestions on ways we can improve are useful,  but we do need to meet produce images that are fitting the purpose on a time basis, so have to take that into account
<gema> skaet: agreed
<slangasek> I don't expect we're going to change the process to declare that we never respin
<gema> slangasek: I don't know, I need to think about that
<slangasek> ok :)
<gema> slangasek: change is good if it is to fix things, they just need to be fixed in time for us to be able to test
<gema> and stgraber having only your opinion on how good/bad the images are doesn't fill me with as much confidence as if most of the QA team had had a chance to test the images
<gema> nothing personal, just a matter of coverage
<skaet> and getting the manual testing to be efficient has to be part of it though.
<gema> and confidence that more eyes went through the changes
<slangasek> gema: sure, I understand; and part of the calculation the release team needs to make is whether a bug is so important to fix (i.e., is "stop ship") that we would want to let the image be delayed rather than release it as-is
<stgraber> gema: well, I surely would have liked to go back in time and respin the image on the 17th, unfortunately that's not an option... so we spotted that at the last minute and as we're doing time based releases, had to fix, retest and release in just a few hours
<stgraber> I'm not saying that's a good thing, but that's how things are and we have to live with it
<skaet> gema,  the change was that we dropped a language pack,   we figured out the impact and took the risk, with a fall back.
<gema> stgraber: we could have delayed the release until today
<gema> stgraber: there were other options
<skaet> gema,  we're a time based release.
<Daviey> gema: surely the whole point of posting results to the iso tracker, is to allow the release team to consider if a respin is needed?
<Daviey> Polling each member of the QA team is odd.
<gema> Daviey: I am not asking for that
<slangasek> so does that mean the respun image didn't go through the ISO testing process?
<Daviey> Personally, i think the product managers require more input than the QA team.
<stgraber> as far as I'm concerned, if the product lead signs-off and I have all testcases covered on the tracker, an image is good to ship
<Daviey> +1
<stgraber> if that's not the case, then the process needs fixing to reflect that
<gema> stgraber: agreed
<skaet> slangasek,  jibel and stgraber went through the test cases so it did go through ISO testing process
<gema> it needs to change
<Daviey> gema: What aspect ?
<jocarter> what should change, specifically, gema?
<gema> the approach is wrong
<gema> having a set of results on the tracker from the same people that are making the changes is just not enough confidence
<gema> imo
<Daviey> I always considered it such that the release team makes the call on what is releasable, with input from the QA team for testing and approval from the product managers.
<gema> we need to plan for the time it takes to have more HW covered in our testing
<Daviey> gema: That isn't the apprach
<Daviey> approach
<stgraber> Daviey: yep, that's how it should be. The release team is the one making the release decision, not QA.
<xnox> gema: do you mean: as in three pairs of eyeballs minimum? one to change, one to test, one to sign off?
<gema> xnox: along those lines, but we need to review and agree on something more solid
<Daviey> gema: The fact that in prior history, the QA team wasn't able to give us the coverage, meant that we had to do it within the product teams for it to get done.
<gema> imo
<Daviey> Thankfully, this is improving
<skaet> +1
<gema> exactly Daviey
<balloons> I think gema is concerned these exceptions are more often the norm in releasing. We all agree last minute testing and fixing is not the ideal way to go (working overtime, doing everything last minute and on a time crunch, etc)
<gema> yet our opinion doesn't really count
<stgraber> FWIW, I wouldn't have trusted an image with a single tester, but in this case, I did the change, infinity reviewed it, IS reviewed and landed it and the image was tested by me, jibel and balloons
<stgraber> so that's way enough eyeballs as far as I'm concerned
<balloons> I will say I am impressed with the release team as a whole in order to mount efforts to stay on the timetable.. you deserve credit for that
<jocarter> balloons: and besides that even... they keep level-headed and calm and professional even when they're tired and overworked. I have lots of respect for the release team.
<gema> I would rather them not overworking to be able to achieve the releasing
<gema> :)
<gema> but +1 balloons and jocarter
<skaet> Will you be circulating an email to ubuntu-release with your ideas on ways we can improve?
<skaet> gema, ^
<Daviey> It's really not clear to me what you are suggesting changing.  Nobody wants last minute dashes, and thankfully.. they are on the decline.
<balloons> so I think everyone's goal here is the same.. we don't want last minute changes being the norm for releasing.. To gema's points, we need to investigate (as always) what can be done to avoid the last minute changes.. However, gema it sounds like you might be able to come up with a better way of handling them..
<skaet> where we is QA, release, development.
<balloons> at least something that helps your confidence level?
<gema> skaet: I cannot nor want to decide this unilaterally, I think we need to talk
<gema> skaet: I will put a list of ideas together if you like, but nothing will change until we all agree that there is a problem
<skaet> gema,  I was asking for ideas on an email thread so we can continue this discussion.
<gema> if you guys don't see it then I am not presenting a good case and I need to rethink that
<skaet> the timing is right now,  for good discussion,  and then follow up at UDS.
<gema> skaet: ok
<Daviey> gema: All that has been said so far as far as i can see, is "the current process doesn't take QA's view enough into account".. but a specific idea of what you'd like to see improved, would really help
<gema> Daviey: ok, I will put that in an email and send it to you guys for further discussion
<Daviey> super, thanks.
<gema> will try to give specific examples as well as generic ideas
<balloons> gema, consider walking through hypothetical examples and talk about how you feel it's handled now, vs how you wish it to be handled
<balloons> +1
<gema> balloons: you arae going to help me build that email, I hope :)
<gema> with your experiences as well
<Daviey> that leads to a them an us, lets have an open discussion :)
<balloons> gema, I would be happy to.. It's important to frame how you feel it's being handled as well.. we sometimes assume or understand things incorrectly :-)
<gema> balloons: I am not afraid of being wrong, I do QA for a living
<balloons> gema, kick off your thoughts, we'll all pitch back reponses
<gema> ack
<gema> I am done , skaet
<gema> ..
<skaet> Thanks gema.
<arosales> o/
<skaet> go arosales
<arosales> server will most likely have a FFE for ARM support in MAAS and oprofile (universe)
<arosales> ..
<skaet> Thanks arosales,   please include the bug number of it in your next week's status if its not resolved by then.  ;)
<skaet> on that note - when do you see it landing?
<Daviey> looking at the development RSN.
 * xnox 0/
<skaet> RSN?
<Daviey> real soon now
<skaet> lol
<arosales> skaet: no firm ETA yet, but hopefully mid sept
<skaet> ok, after beta 1,  so definitely need to be communicating it and planning.   gotcha.
<arosales> actively working on both items
 * skaet nods
<arosales> ..
<skaet> ..
<balloons> o/
<skaet> go xnox
<xnox> ubiquity - lvm & crypto in manual partitionaire, might slip UIF and hence might need FFe for that functionality.
<xnox> to be bugfiles & discussed on how to best land it to minimise disruptions, since landing that might brake the installer. (e.g. after crypto work landed there were 3 bugs preventing sertain type of installs due to fallout).
<xnox> s/bugfiles/bugfiled/
<skaet> thanks xnox.    ogra_ will you please make sure the bugs are included in your status next week?
<xnox> (after crypto work, the images were fixed 3 or 5 days later, can't remember)
<xnox> ..
<ogra_> skaet, will do
<skaet> slangasek,  will we be turning off alternates for beta 1?
<skaet> thanks ogra_, xnox for raising it here.
<xnox> ..
<slangasek> skaet: I need to kick off a thread on ubuntu-devel about it to gather feedback about the missing RAID support; I'll do that today or Monday, I think we can probably converge quickly on a decision in time for the beta freeze
<Laney> o/
<skaet> thanks slangasek.
<skaet> ..
<skaet> go balloons
<balloons> I just wanted to chat briefly about what I mentioned in my mail.. How we communicate with the community is important, if we want to continue building a good working relationship
<balloons> Recently some of the changes have caused a bit of grief for those testing..
<balloons> I can get into specifics, but I would rather focus on what we can do to ensure we are communicating more effectively with our testing community. To some extent, that's a worry for me :-) Hence me bringing it up. There's technical and non-technical ideas -- should be communicate more within the desktop, or should we require folks to follow a certain mailing list, etc, etc
<skaet> seb128, popey - any ideas how we can help balloons?
 * skaet is thinking of the 2D and 3D scenario evolving... ;)
<balloons> Mostly I'd like to make sure that big changes that will have an effect on what's going on in QA are discussed here.. That generally happens, but not always..
<seb128> not really, I don't have the specifics?
<seb128> is that about unity-2d dropping and the impact on vms?
<balloons> Well, for instance I'll pick on the nvidia / xorg change
<seb128> what would you have liked to see better done there?
<balloons> That change obviously impacted alot of people.. A few day s after popey and the unity team wanted some triaging on multi-monitor bugs, and of course the unity/compiz changes
<popey> is it that the people affected didn't know the issue was coming down the line, or they did know and are still adversely affected anyway? What's the most irritation there?
<seb128> it was announced on -devel but admittedly late and in a non really verbose way
<balloons> yes, I don't think the fact the change went in (and would break things for people) is as much of a concern as the fact it was unknown
<ogra_> seb128, even in the planning it was awfully hidden ...
<seb128> imho we should use -devel to announce such things
<balloons> so it was a, you update, and boom your stuff is broken
<seb128> I'm still unhappy about how -release handled the xorg,nvidia stuff
<ogra_> seb128, there is one spec where dropping of unity-2d is mentioned in a half sentence
<ogra_> beyond things like the mentioning of it on ubuntugeel and omgubuntu, you couldnt really find any official info about the move
<seb128> well, different story:
<seb128> - nvidia,xorg was a known issue, poorly handled from -release imho and poorly communicated to -devel our community
<popey> I don't think -devel is the best way to communicate critical things like this to people. I'd be surprised if many quantal users are on that list.
<ogra_> i think that step is a big enough move qith enough impact that it would have deserved a full spec
<seb128> - unity-2d was publicly announced in plenty of spaces and specs
<balloons> yes I agree.. -devel isn't the place to announce
<balloons> well.. not the only place :-)
<ogra_> written by DX (with explanations what are the plans, tests etc) ... and implemented by desktop
<seb128> popey, what easy communication channel do we have?
<ogra_> ..
<popey> OMG!Ubuntu! :)
<seb128> popey, easy, like for those of use who don't spend hours every day on every social website on the internet :p
<popey> heh
<balloons> to some extent that falls on me.. and I'm happy to help in that regard
<seb128> popey, I've no clue how to get something published on omgubuntu and I don't consider it an official media channel
<popey> if you went to omg / webupd8 / muktware you'd hit a _huge_ number of people in one go
<seb128> well
<ogra_> seb128, delegate bloging to one of you team members then ;)
<seb128> I'm happy to improve how we communicate
<balloons> Getting an official channel for this stuff.. right now, ubuntu-qa mailing list is a good start, but there are folks who aren't on the list
<popey> i completely understand that perspective seb128
<ogra_> if you think planet is a more official mediam
<ogra_> *medium
<seb128> ogra_, nobody in my team is into blogging
<popey> but what we're doing is something "newsworthy" so we should publish it as "news"
<balloons> imho, somehow sending it out to users when they update would be really cool.. but, in general if we could manage to alert at least those who are actively testing and helping it would go a long way
<seb128> we should maybe set up a "news feed" then
<Laney> there's already a news team
<seb128> where feed is whatever you guys who do communication find an efficient way to deal with news
<Laney> could we CC such announcements there and have it get out that way?
<Daviey> Generally, all engineering teams need to get better at blogging.
<seb128> Daviey, we are back at what ogra was saying though
<seb128> blog will reach 1% users
<seb128> I don't read blogs, I've no time for that, and I'm sure a good part of our users have no interest in blogs or planet ubuntu
<Daviey> Yes, but OMG et al will no doubt use it as a reference for continuation stories
<ogra_> seb128, well, before that i said it should have been planned better (by DX) ... if  there is a spec it is way better noticed by the community
<balloons> I guess I would at least like to know about things like this in advance.. and in general the other leads in this meeting should also know
<seb128> that seems like a "rely on some other people to do something you don't know if they are going to do"
<skaet> some sort of push of info to all folks who are registered as wanting to help test (subscribed to related test cases?) could be an option to reach those affected as well?
<ogra_> and people might watch its implementation status (and are prepared of whats coming)
 * Daviey notes that El Reg almost wrote a story about something i added to the wiki alone.
<seb128> ogra_, sorry, what you talking about? xorg,nvidia or unity2d?
<seb128> ogra_, unity2d dropping had full specs
<seb128> ogra_, and was discussed at UDS in public sessions
<Daviey> Perhaps I am biased, but i'm more annoyed that X/libdrm broke *server* install media. :)
<ogra_> seb128, spec url ?
<seb128> ogra_, in fact I even announced it during the closing plenary
<ogra_> seb128, sorry, but all i can find is a single sentence from a BOF discussion note in one of the desktop team specs
<seb128> from my notes
<balloons> seb128, I believe unity2d was a known thing.. people knew it would happen.. they may have been a bit surprised when it did, but again, they were prepared on the idea
<seb128> "llvmpipe and opengles support in Unity 3D -> dropping 2d if we can (a11y, llvmpipe performanc, gsettings support to compiz)"
<seb128> balloons, seems ogra was not
<seb128> ogra_, let's take that out of meeting, that's a bit off topic
<ogra_> seb128, i knew it .... when i asked about it the answer was "we dont know yet"
<skaet> hmm..   we're a bit over now,  but this topic probably should be taken to the maillist as well now.
<seb128> going back to the better communication way, I don't have a strong opinion
<ogra_> seb128, and there was no spec i could look up the plans
<ogra_> (or anyone from the community could)
<balloons> ok, so coming back around on this. I would like to see us internally communicating better..
<balloons> I will help distribute that to others..
<seb128> what about letting popey, balloons and whoever is interested define a channel others should use for announces?
<balloons> longer term finding better channels is the goal
<Daviey> balloons: external communication would surely be better than internal ? :)
<ogra_> i'm not complaining about not knowing it, i'm complaining about the whole thing not having been documented and planned in advance so that people can look up whats jjhappening
<skaet> balloons are you getting what you need from the weekly section of == what's about to land that will affect other teams == ?
<seb128> popey, balloons: want to work on defining a standard workflow that teams should use to get news out?
<popey> we have a communications team
<balloons> for instance, slangasek's annouce about dropping alt images.. people know about it. let's try and communicate that clearly now
<balloons> Since I heard about it here, I can communicate it out and look for his email
<ogra_> seb128, there were plenty people in the community asking about unity-2d and the status (and if they could help testing llvmpipe) since months
<ogra_> there was no place to point them to
<seb128> ogra_, let's take that particular issue out of the meeting, it's specific
<skaet> balloons,  can you start a thread off on this, so we can continue to add our ideas?
<balloons> skaet, sure
<skaet> Thanks
<skaet> Laney,  still have a question before I end the meeting?
<Laney> well, it's kind of a note
<skaet> :)
<Laney> the indicator gtk2 dropping has broken xubuntu, lubuntu, ubuntustudio
<Laney> I didn't see any note of that in their release reports
<Laney> just wanted to check that it was known
<balloons> Laney, bug?
<xnox> Laney: is it pending splitting source package in two & uploading old gtk2-only package?
<skaet> gilir, astraljava, scott-work  ^^
<gilir> Laney, it's known, we are trying to find a solution to upload a gtk2 source
<xnox> balloons: there was thread on -release or -devel where the feedback was gathered about dropping gtk2-indicators
<Laney> xnox: I suppose that and a maintainer
<Laney> balloons: I don't have a bug number, just noted that the images were no longer building because of this
<skaet> thanks Laney
<Laney> so, probably a concern for beta 1 for these product
<Laney> s
<Laney> ..
<skaet> appreciate you bringing it up here.    Thanks.
<skaet> ok,   we're way over,  so time to end meeting....
<Daviey> Thanks.
<skaet> please take follow up to the ubuntu-release email list.
<skaet> Thanks balloons, gema, arosales, seb128, popey, slangasek, stgraber, Daviey, smartboyhw, ogra_, rsalveti, brendand, Laney, jocarter, xnox, for the good discussions today.
<skaet> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Aug 24 16:18:14 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-24-15.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-24-15.00.html
<seb128> skaet, thanks
<balloons> thanks skaet !
<ogra_> thanks skaet
<gema> thanks!
<arosales> thanks for charing skaet
<xnox> aloha skaet !
<stgraber> thanks!
<rsalveti> thanks!
<jocarter> thanks!
<xnox> jocarter: never late, just delayed
<jocarter> they say it's never too late to stop procrastinating.
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-08-19
<jdstrand> hi!
 * sbeattie waves
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Aug 19 16:34:32 2013 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I'm on community this week
<jdstrand> I have some bug triage to finish up
<jdstrand> I have pending updates I'm working on
<jdstrand> I've also been bootstrapping appstore review scripts
<jdstrand> I also hope to test/sponsor tyhick's pending apparmor/dbus upload
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm in the happy place this week
<mdeslaur> I start my holiday on wednesday, until the 3rd
<mdeslaur> so I'll basically be upgrading my laptop to saucy today, and that's pretty much it
<mdeslaur> and will possibly do some triage/research
<mdeslaur> that's it for me, sbeattie
<sbeattie> mdeslaur: enjoy your holiday
<sbeattie> I'm on apparmor this week
<sbeattie> I'm focused on writing additional testcases for the regression tests, in particular IPC.
<sbeattie> ... which is pretty much it for me.
<sbeattie> tyhicks: you're up
<sbeattie> oh wait, tyhicks is off today.
<sbeattie> sarnold: I think you're up.
<sarnold> I'm on triage this week, working on an embargoed update, and doing MIR audits
<sarnold> I'm also playing with different published kernels to try to find one that does kvm / qemu / libvirt without any problems. some kernels run VMs fine but I'm having trouble creating VMs, which is a big necssary for the update I'm working on..
<jdstrand> erf
<sarnold> yeah. I kinda wish I had a precise machine around for this kind of stuff. :)
<sarnold> oh well :) chrisccoulson, you're up :)
<jdstrand> I don't see why a kernel would fail on creating a vm vs running it
<chrisccoulson> hi :)
<jdstrand> (well, unless running it causes problems, like 3.10 with vmvga)
<sarnold> jdstrand: no, me neither, it might also be libvirt's fault.. :)
<chrisccoulson> this week, i'm mostly working on a messaging API for oxide (to allow content scripts to pass messages to the application), so that i can finally start adding some proper tests
<chrisccoulson> last week was quite a productive week :)
<chrisccoulson> there's also a firefox 23.0.1 (which is already released actually). it's not a security driven update and from looking at the bug list, i'm not convinced it's worth spending time on to update
<chrisccoulson> i think that's me done
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> he Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/open-vm-tools.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/hawtjni.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/mplayer.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/elinks.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gollem.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, sarnold, chrisccoulson: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Aug 19 16:51:24 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-08-19-16.34.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-08-19-16.34.html
<sarnold> thanks jdstrand :)
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
<kees> \o
 * pitti waves hello
<kees> heya
<pitti> cjwatson is on holidays
<pitti> soren sent apols
<pitti> hm, no mdz either
<pitti> stgraber: est-ce que tu es ici ?
 * stgraber waves
<stgraber> pitti: oui
 * pitti currently reads the openvswitch SRU request
<pitti> that seems to be the only agenda item today?
<stgraber> yeah, there's also kees who gave an updated list of MRE but I think I'd want more time to look at those or have the number of bugs and number of uploads that caused regressions before I can decide whether to turn some of those into full MREs
<pitti> yeah, me too; the preliminary report doesn't yet have the information about how well these went
<stgraber> for openvswitch, I think I'm happy with a provisional MRE for now, in line with what openstack has already
<kees> stgraber: I've almost got the error report counts...
<kees> although since they're all zero, I don't trust it.
<stgraber> openvswitch has been SRUed multiple times in the past but never to get a full upstream version (that I can see), so a provisional MRE seems appropriate
<stgraber> if all goes well and the next few uploads based on an upstream point release look good, I'd be happy to turn it into a full MRE
<pitti> the upstream test suite looks quite fine, but the autopkgtest is timing out
<pitti> but in general I agree
<stgraber> well, autopkgtest isn't terribly useful for an LTS anyway
<pitti> well, for the next one it will be :)
<stgraber> (I was meaning to point that out as a reply to the original e-mail but didn't get to it)
<stgraber> only if someone looks at the results
<stgraber> publishing from -proposed to -updates is manual for stable releases so autopkgtest won't prevent the package from reaching the users
<pitti> well, I assume we'll keep the britney gatewaying for SRUs?
<stgraber> not that I know of. britney is meant to gateway the dev release, not stable releases
<pitti> ah, ok; so I guess that should become part of the SRU report
<stgraber> yep, that'd be good
<stgraber> we certainly could run britney on stable and have it consider everything as "blocked" so that it needs an hint to get copied over to -updates (that way we'd still benefit from the rest of the checks) but I don't think we have any plan to actually do this, so I wouldn't count on it
<pitti> stgraber: I think it's enough if http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html points out test regressions
<pitti> no need to make the copying tools more complicated
<stgraber> yep, I can certainly agree with that :)
<pitti> kees: any reservations against an openvswitch provisional MRE?
<kees> pitti: seems fine to me.
<kees> so, in doing the error review of the existing pMREs, it seems there are no servers reporting crashes. :)
<stgraber> kees: that'd make sense, whoopsie doesn't report anything on those IIRC :)
<kees> right :(
<pitti> yeah, we don't exactly make it easy to do that
<pitti> it's much easier in saucy now, but I doubt that many server admins would want to enable that
<kees> because the whole glance, horizon, etc stack shows 0 errors, and libreoffice .... not so much
<kees>     libreoffice, quantal updates: 1
<kees>         2012-11-19 1:3.6.2~rc2-0ubuntu4
<kees>             error report count: 40
<kees> I'll have to report both error count and bugs-in-specific-version.
<kees> anyway, I'll continue working on the report.
<pitti> kees: thanks
<pitti> so it seems we are done?
<kees> yeah
 * pitti responds to MRE request mail
<kees> thanks!
<stgraber> thanks pitti
<pitti> done, and ttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates/MicroReleaseExceptions updated
<pitti> good night
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-08-20
<lool> Hey!
<lool> barry, ogra_, slangasek: hey!
<barry> lool: hi
 * ogra_ fells heyed 
<ogra_> *feels
<lool> so stgraber is on a plane today
<lool> hmm maybe we should invite didrocks here too
<barry> lool: +1
 * barry is pvtmsg with him now :)
<lool> hey didrocks
<lool> barry: same here :_)
<lool> hye seb128  :-)
<didrocks> hey!
<lool> no sergio sadly
<lool> but let's get started
<seb128> lool, hey ;-)
<lool> I would like to focus this meeting on the transition plan to new images and remaining blockers
<lool> we can discuss longer term plans next week during vUDS
<lool> I've registered this session: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-1308-os-updates
<lool> the goal for OS updates is to ditch the old images by the end of august; IOW have everyone use the new images and OS updates by end of august
<lool> which, given that vUDS is mid next week, means that we should be ready to flip the switch this week
<lool> there are IMO two things that would be good to get before the switch
<lool> one is the updated dbus interface that didrocks and barry have been working on
<lool> because otherwise the user experience is fragile (launch syste msettings twice and you can't update unless you wait x minutes or reboot)
<lool> the other nice to have would be to land the repartitioning changes
<barry> LP: #1212781
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1212781 in Ubuntu system image "Update the DBus API to the new specification" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1212781
<lool> slangasek told me he has some bandwidth to hopefully do the repartitioning research+impl this week, but there's a chance he wont be able to complete this week
<lool> the main blocker I see for the transition is that we currently wipe userdata when switching
<lool> sergiusens told me he'd implement a flag to save+restore userdata _on the host_ in phablet-flash
<lool> there are other things in progress, like QA team switching to new images, the daily-proposed channels etc.
<lool> and minor annoyances like the fact that we don't see progress updates when applyings updates or the fake manifest when applying an update
<lool> but these shouldn't get in the way to switching to the new images  :-)
<lool> So, first of all, is this a decently accurate picture of where we stand?
<barry> lool: two other big things on my plate
<lool> barry: shoot
<barry> 1) switching to the download service.  i have a wip branch that is on hold pending changes to the d/l service dbus api that i need.  i need to get status on that work, but i've pushed that below my own dbus update
<barry> 2) stgraber and i discussed some changes needed in order to support alternative channels.  we need to move some stuff currently in client.ini to a separate channels.ini file, but we can't do that until the server is updated
<barry> so, my plan is to work on the dbus api which i think is the most critical.  #2 should be easy-ish
<barry> #1 is currently blocked
<barry> #1 probably shouldn't block the transition, we'll just have crappier download control until that lands
<lool> [ it's completely optional to get the download service integration for OS updates in 13.10; it's nice, but it's not required; the main things this buys is protection from app lifecycle, but OS updates client isn't under app lifecycle anyway, and testing for the download service ]
<barry> #2 needs to happen i think (stgraber estimated the server changes would land on wednesday)
<lool> right
<barry> eot
<lool> barry: I agree pointing at different channels is important; is this for daily-proposed?
<barry> lool: i believe so, yes
<barry> LP: #1214009
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1214009 in Ubuntu system image "Add support for channel.ini file" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1214009
<lool> ok, that's mainly to allow QA to have a proposed image to update to, but I don't think it stops us from switching the images
<barry> (currently assigned to stgraber - he'll reassign that to me when his side is done)
<lool> it's typically to implement new QA tests
<lool> (upgrade tests)
<lool> which we don't have right now
<barry> cool.
<lool> today we only test an image in itself, not upgrades
<lool> (IIUC)
<lool> however that makes me remember that we might be publishing new daily images from the latest cdimage image rather than from /current or something like that
<lool> we need to give control to updating the daily image, which is a server side tweak
<lool> at the moment I guess we autopublish the latest build to system-image.u.c
<barry> i think so
<lool> while cdimage is in manual mode to update /current
<lool> ogra_: ^
<lool> so it seems to me the two "blockers" to the transition are the backup/restore flag in phablet-flash and some mean to block what gets published, which indeed might require the QA team to be able to point at some other channel
<lool> barry, didrocks: Concerning new DBus API impl, what's the ETA on it?  is it something we should wait for before switching
<lool> ?
<didrocks> lool: I think so, my personal ETA is before EOW
<didrocks> as I'm on holidays starting next week
<ogra_> lool, stgraber has a WI to implement the /current -> /pending stuff on the ayatem-image server
<ogra_> *system
<didrocks> I think we just need a quick dicussion with barry (that we started just before this meeting)
<didrocks> to finish acking the API
<didrocks> then, I need barry's mock
<didrocks> to validate the UI
<lool> ogra_: ack, that seems similar to what I described
<barry> let's say my side also by eow, but could be a day or so earlier
<ogra_> lool, imho he should go on pulling from pending
<didrocks> before helping him on the backend as much as I can
<didrocks> barry: do you think we can have the mock done by EOD with the different cases?
<ogra_> lool, we cant drop the cdimage images until we have a solution for the ports ... so oth will have to exist in paralllel for a while
<ogra_> *both
<lool> didrocks, barry: isn't it risky to land the changes just at the time where we're switching everyone to the new update system and just before didrocks going on leave?
<didrocks> that will enable me to ensure I finish the UI and unblock for helping you
<barry> didrocks: in a branch, yes, i think so
<lool> didrocks, barry: If you guys think we could switch on e.g. thursday, that would be ok I guess
<didrocks> lool: if the mock is working, the ui implementation will be validated
<didrocks> as we now listen to the same bus :p
<lool> ogra_: sure, the cdimage images stay anyway
<didrocks> so the ui will be finished like tomorrow
<didrocks> not a big risk, barry will know the backend for sure
<barry> right
<barry> didrocks: do you have a backup person for the ui if needed?
<ogra_> lool, well, i would like to drop then from the public webserver at some point ... once we have a solution for ports
<lool> it's not like we were hit by a bus the first time we tried to land this  ;-)
<lool> seb128: ^ would you be able to deal with all the bugs in didrocks' code?  ;-)
<barry> lool: don't get hit by the system bus
<didrocks> lool: IIRC, there was no bug in my code :p
<lool> seb128: (didrocks on leave next week)
<seb128> lool, "all"? ;-)
<didrocks> I trusted the mock! then, didn't change anything ;)
<seb128> lool, I'm there and can debug/fix stuff yes
<lool> ogra_: we still need the base images to compute deltas against anyway; ports can progressively transition to the new images when they are ready for it?
<ogra_> lool, but there is no need to have the interim product in public imho
<ogra_> we dont have the livefs build in public either
<lool> it's not by design though
<ogra_> it is just one step towards the real image ... once it isnt needed to have that step public i would think we should just hide it
<lool> it's just a security/infrastructure side effect that these are in a protected environment
<lool> anyway, I don't really care what happens to the cdimage images; I'd personally just keep them as they are, but if you think they need renaming or something to force ports to transition to new images, that's ok
<lool> just need to sync with stgraber on this
<lool> we wont break ports because we wont change anything to cdimage images for now, I think that's all we need to worry about for now  :-)
<ogra_> no, i think they just dont need publishing once ports can use system images
<lool> alright, so summary of plan: didrocks+barry work on new dbus API with goal to finish on thursday?
<barry> +1
<lool> stgraber + ogra to implement new /current / /proposed mechanism for system-image.u.c tomorrow (wed)
<lool> sergiusens to implement new phablet-flash host backup/restore flag for thursday
<didrocks> +1
<lool> we test the switch on thursday and we announce on friday
<ogra_> err, what ?
<lool> what what?  :-)
 * ogra_ has never seen the code of system-images.u.c ... nor do i have access to it i think
<ogra_> (access to the machine i mean)
<lool> ogra_: Ok; I thought you were handling the cdimage symlink updates and would be interested in this, but if you think stgraber should tackle it alone, that works too I guess
<barry> ogra_: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-system-image/ubuntu-system-image/server
<lool> ogra_: (I don't have access to the machine either)
<ogra_> lool, system-image pulls from cdimage /pending (and should go on to do so)
<lool> ogra_: I am not sure that's the case
<ogra_> i thought it is
<lool> in the beginning at least, it was looking for cdimage build numbers and taking the highest one
<lool> e.g. 20130820
<ogra_> which means /pending :)
<lool> there's a subtle difference IMO
<lool> anyway
<lool> doesn't matter here
<ogra_> a published build automatically becomes /pending
<lool> one thing I forgot in the plan: I need to keep in sync with slangasek to see when the repartitioning stuff could land
<lool> if it could be ready for thursday/friday, we could have it rolled in phablet-flash for the announcement as well
<lool> as beta or not
<lool> just to avoid one extra host backup + restore effort for users
<lool> Ok; does the "plan" sound reasonnable?  anything I'm missing?
<didrocks> lool: TBH, I would advise on announcing it officially on Monday
<didrocks> like not before a week-end everybody will be away
<lool> didrocks: that's a good idea actually, announce on fridays isn't good
<didrocks> let's test on Thursday and Friday
<lool> fair enough
<ogra_> lool, in any case the /current /pending stuff on system-image is also depending on QA to have tests in place and runnning
<ogra_> they do a readonly test already, but no click package based ones yet afaik
<lool> ogra_: Ack; I have a weekly meeting to check on this either today or tomorrow
<ogra_> good
<ogra_> i think asac doesnt want us to make the switch until the tests are identical ...
<lool> alright; we're overtime, but since I didn't leave any time for status, I'd like to open the floor to any other topic for today
<ogra_> or at least close
<lool> barry, didrocks, ogra_, seb128: Any other important topic that you guys would like to raise?
<seb128> nothing from me
<barry> i'm good
<ogra_> nope
<lool> rock on
<didrocks> (nothing as well)
<lool> feel free to update https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-1308-os-updates to list things you'd like to discuss at vUDS for next iterations of OS updates!
<lool> have a great end of day, happy hacking!
<barry> lool: thanks!
<smoser> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Aug 20 16:00:33 2013 UTC.  The chair is smoser. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<adam_g> o/
<smoser> hello all and welcome to this weeks exciting adventure that we like to call the Ubuntu Server Team Weekly Meeting.
<smoser> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<smoser> wow. we had no shortage of actions from last weeks meeting
<smoser> arosales to update Juju blueprints
<smoser> no arosoles atm, moving on
<smoser> roaksoax to clean-up iscsitarget packaging for 12.04.3
<smoser> hallyn_ to confirm iscsitarget packaging done
<smoser> roaksoax, hallyn_ ?
<hallyn_> jamespage did that :)
<hallyn_> (did the packaging - i confirm :)
<smoser> k. good
<smoser> Daviey to review 'dlm' in new queue for Saucy
<jamespage> \o/
<smoser> Daviey, ?
<roaksoax> smoser: seems that jamespage took care of it
<smoser> zul to follow up on mariadb/percona making it into Saucy
<jamespage> roaksoax, yeah - I was on a roll for dkms updates...
<smoser> hallyn_ to coordinate with zul and smb on testing xen 4.3 on nova
<hallyn_> that's less stable than i realized.  haven't progressed much
<Daviey> smoser: done
<smb> I think distracted would be a better word :)
<smoser> arosales to update Juju blueprints
<hallyn_> (haven't gotten xen 4.3 to work for me at all)
<arosales> smoser, in progress for vUDS coming up
<Daviey> smoser: dlm reviewed and accepted
<smoser> ok. i'll push the xen item to next weke also
<smoser> ACTION: hallyn_ to coordinate with zul and smb on testing xen 4.3 on nova
<smoser> #action hallyn_ to coordinate with zul and smb on testing xen 4.3 on nova
<meetingology> ACTION: hallyn_ to coordinate with zul and smb on testing xen 4.3 on nova
<jamespage> smoser, you missed "jamespage to clean-up openvswitch packaging for 12.04.3 "
<smoser> status ?
<Daviey> jamespage: I started reviewing that for SRU, but not yet complete
<jamespage> well as you ask :-)
<jamespage> decided to take a different approach
<jamespage> its actually only the dkms package thats not compatible
<jamespage> and the user-space tools we have in 12.04 should be compatibile with a dkms module from raring
<smoser> cool
<jamespage> so we are going to backport lts-raring variants of the openvswitch-datapath-* modules to 12.04
<jamespage> Daviey is reviewing
<smoser> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/ReleaseSchedule
<smoser> feature freeze is 29th.
<smoser> i personally would like to see a cloud images beta1.
<smoser> utlemming, can we just plan on that ?
<utlemming> smosser: sure, I think that is a great idea
<smoser> as always, please get / have blueprints in order.
<utlemming> smoser: I'll plan on that happening
<smoser> k.
<smoser> anyone have anything else here ? or do we move to release bugs now ?
<smoser> #subtopic Release Bugs
<smoser> hm..
<smoser> #topic Release Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Release Bugs
<smoser> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-s-tracking-bug-tasks.html#server
<smoser> bug 1175028 seems in fix-committed.
<ubottu> bug 1175028 in mongodb (Ubuntu Saucy) "Mongodb links GPL code with SSL" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1175028
<smoser> bug 1208455.
<ubottu> bug 1208455 in linux (Ubuntu Saucy) "general protection fault running apt-get inside double nested kvm VM" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1208455
<hallyn_> smb: ^
<smoser> it looks like smb has some movement on that as recently as 18 hours ago
<smb> hallyn_, Working on it
<smoser> moving on.
<hallyn_> +1
<smoser> bug 1213915
<ubottu> bug 1213915 in ceph (Ubuntu Saucy) "Please demote ceph-mds and ceph-fs-common to universe" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1213915
<smoser> i'm geussing mr jamespage has that under control.
<smoser> bug
<smoser> 1156932
<jamespage> meh - waiting for a archive-admin
<smoser> bug 1156932
<ubottu> bug 1156932 in python-novaclient (Ubuntu Saucy) "User can't modify security-group-rule via nova-api if there are duplicated security group name" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1156932
<jamespage> oh -thats a nice one
<jamespage> not sure its a 'High' tho
<smoser> i guess we should push that a bit upstream.
<smoser> there aren't work arounds other than "don't do that"
<jamespage> zul, any chance upstream will do something about that - its possible to have a broken nova api call right now
<zul> ill look
<smoser> ah. you can, Aaron Rosen's comment is quite good.
<smoser> i agree, not High.
<smoser> bug 1206872
<ubottu> bug 1206872 in samba (Ubuntu Saucy) "samba fails to unpack (behavior change in patch) and ftbfs on aarch64" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1206872
<smoser> i'll assume matthias has that.
<jamespage> I started looking at the merge for that
<smoser> ok. good.
<jamespage> but got uncomfortable as slangasek's upstart/init goodness appeared to get dropped
<jamespage> so I pinged him then forgot - my bad
<smoser> you're syaing its reported fixed in debian ?
<smoser> oh. yeah, i see that.
<smoser> k. never mind.
<smoser> nmoving on.
<smoser> jamespage, please do ping slangasek again.
<smoser> bug 1199791
<jamespage> smoser, will do
<ubottu> bug 1199791 in nova (Ubuntu Saucy) "nova-compute-xcp misses nova-compute.conf" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1199791
<smoser> zul you have athat in hand ?
<smoser> bug 1203828
<ubottu> bug 1203828 in mysql-5.5 (Ubuntu Saucy) "mysql 5.5.32, 5.1.70 security update tracking bug" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1203828
<smoser> mdeslaur, ^? is that under control
<smoser> bug 1203828
<ubottu> bug 1203828 in mysql-5.5 (Ubuntu Saucy) "mysql 5.5.32, 5.1.70 security update tracking bug" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1203828
<smoser> bah
<smoser> bug 1170393
<ubottu> bug 1170393 in neutron (Ubuntu Saucy) "Quantum services should be respawned by upstart if necessary" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1170393
<smoser> bug 1188069
<ubottu> bug 1188069 in apache2 (Ubuntu Saucy) "apache2 mod_rewrite CVE 2013-1862" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1188069
<smoser> that one is fix-committed, so moving on.
<smoser> leave that to security team.
<smoser> bug 1180397
<ubottu> bug 1180397 in xen (Ubuntu Saucy) "Xen stable update to 4.2.2" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1180397
<smb> I need to check with infinity to get those moving one by one
<smoser> k. thank you smb.
<smb> Oh well actually rather would aboid that for S
<smb> And go 4.3
<smoser> yeah.
<smoser> you can update the bug subject. you're the opener, smb
<smoser> bug 1031680
<ubottu> bug 1031680 in nagios-plugins (Ubuntu Raring) "check_apt always report 0 critical updates" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1031680
<smoser> that one doesn't hae anyone assigned.
<smoser> hm..
<smoser> rbasak, could youjust take a look at that offline
<smoser> make sure its not just getting missed
<smoser> #topic Blueprints
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Blueprints
<smoser> link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-s/group/topic-s-servercloud-overview.html
<mdeslaur> smoser: I'm not currently working on the mysql package...if someone from the server team can take a look, I'd appreciate it, else it will have to wait until I get back from vacation
<smoser> hm.. there is a lot of rred there, and we are near feature freeze.
<smoser> mdeslaur, thanks for the follow up.
<smoser> i think i'm generally just going to ask everyon e(and myself to take a look at your blueprints andensure that they're in a reasonable state)
<hallyn_> yup, with ff a week away...
<smoser> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (plars)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (plars)
<plars>  -> psivaa
<smoser> plars, anything ?
<psivaa> no updates from the qa side
<smoser> k.
<smoser> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<smb> Currently working on bug 1208455 which jodh reported. But also would really want xen 4.3 to get into Saucy but the window closes. I do not think it would have a real impact on anything but xen-api, xen-api-libs and blktap. All tree look to be parts of the xen cloud platform (open source xen-server) from Citrix. And all three are FTBS even without the xen update. They only exist in the archive as they got pocket-copied over from previous re
<smb> leases.
<ubottu> bug 1208455 in linux (Ubuntu Saucy) "general protection fault running apt-get inside double nested kvm VM" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1208455
<smoser> double nested ?
<slangasek> s/double //
<smb> smoser, yeah, in the end he uses 3 levels
<smb> But the problem actually can be seen in the 2nd level already
<smoser> wow.
<smb> slangasek, So yeah, probably should remove the double there
<slangasek> well, the three levels we care about are host, outer VM, inner VM
<smb> smoser, Better do not ask _what_ he does, cause I don't know :)
<slangasek> to be clear
<jodh> smoser: ftr, all I'm trying to do is create a kvm instance that is controllable from the autopkgtest env. Just so happens that when I create my instance, there are already 2 instances behind me ;)
<slangasek> smb: jenkins dispatches vms; integration tests for upstart requires booting under a test harness; thus, nested vms are required
<slangasek> or else jenkins needs to dispatch to bare metal instead
<rbasak> tbh, I think bug 1031680 will get missed. It's more in depth as it seems, and needs to be dealt with with care.
<ubottu> bug 1031680 in nagios-plugins (Ubuntu Raring) "check_apt always report 0 critical updates" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1031680
<ogra_> note that this bug seems to hold up an important fix for touch images
<slangasek> ogra_: that's a separate discussion that I need to have with rsalveti today
<ogra_> (the kvm one)
<ogra_> ah, k
<rbasak> Fundamentally it's an upstream bug, which tries to understand apt in a broken way, and fixing it is considerable upstream work.
<smoser> slangasek, presumably a workaround would be to disable kvm
<rbasak> A workaround is available.
<rbasak> Not breaking compatibility is the difficult part.
<slangasek> smoser: running qemu without paravirt? hmmmm
<smoser> other than being painfully slow, that would workaround the bug.
<slangasek> hadn't considered that
<slangasek> well, "painfully slow" is the status quo
<ogra_> speed is overrated :)
<slangasek> we need to be able to do fast upstart integration tests
<smoser> orders of magnitude performance affected i suspect.
<smoser> yeah. its not a fix.
<slangasek> if it's too slow, we can bypass it by running them locally instead
<smoser> its a workaround
<smoser> anyway.
<slangasek> it's around, but it doesn't work for us ;)
<smb> So far it seems that at least with Q and R as host and not running 64bit qemu on 32 bit guest things are more stable for me
<smb> smoser, and that is with kvm enabled
<smoser> oh wow. running 64 bit qemu in 32 bit guest ?
<slangasek> ermm I hope that's not the way we're doing it
<smoser> it just gets better and better :)
<slangasek> jodh: ^^ are you really running 64-bit inner guest on a 32-bit outer guest?  If so, don't
<ogra_> wow, that means we could also have arm64 under armhf :)
<smb> slangasek, That was what jodh  was doing
<jodh> smb: do we have a handle yet as to what is causing the kernel crashes? Does this need to be raised on lkml?
<jodh> slangasek: no, I am not :)
<slangasek> ok
<smoser> i'm gonna move on here, and assume that slangasek, smb, and jodh can figure it out.
<jodh> slangasek: well, not knowingly. But the distinction between 'qemu', 'kvm' and all the sym link horror of the multiple binaries might be doing stuff...
<smb> jodh, You were using qemu-system-x86_64 in the guest that was i386
<jodh> smb: I was using what was provided by 'kvm'.
<slangasek> should we maybe take this elsewhere and not derail the meeting in progress? :)
<jodh> which is what autopkgtest does
<smoser> yeah, please take up in #ubuntu-server.
<smb> slangasek, agree to take it away
 * smoser is interested, but this is a bit long here.
<smoser> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<smoser> rbasak, do we have a kernel that we could put in the cloud iamges ? i tihnk we hvae no maas images for ephemerla for saucy at the moment due to lack of sufficent kernel...
<smoser> i suppose i should have a bug on that, but i do not.
<utlemming> smoser: the saucy ephemeral arm images are back to normal now...it was a qemu bug
<rbasak> smoser: we have a generic kernel now
<rbasak> That would do.
<smoser> utlemming, oh? ok. that is good. well i will raise bug if there is an issue.
<rbasak> I'll need to check exact status, but the general plan is to have lpae and non-lpae variants
<smoser> what is the 'generic' kernel ?
<smoser> just actually 'generic' like on other arch ?
<utlemming> I think there is going to be some issues since we are using the OMAP kernel with the OMAP loaders.
<rbasak> Yes, but there are a limited number of platforms that support it. Hopefully that number will grow
<utlemming> rbasak: we should sync tomorrow morning on this
<rbasak> ack
<smoser> cool. thanks rbasak utlemming .
<smoser> +1 for growing number of platforms
<smoser> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<smoser> anyone have anything here?
<zul> vuds is next week
<smoser> oh yeah.
<smoser> that
<smoser> :)
<smoser> and feature freeze too
<zul> and  i move at the same time
<smoser> so .. if anyone is looking
<smoser> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6007053/
<smoser> is a list of openstack proposals that ubuntu members have submitted.
<smoser> i fyou think those are interested and have openstack voting rights (ie, you are an openstack community member), then vote
<smoser> you can generically vote for speakers at http://www.openstack.org/rate/Presentation/how-to-monetise-your-openstack-cloud-service
<smoser> gah
<smoser> click VOTE HERE at http://www.openstack.org/summit/openstack-summit-hong-kong-2013/
<smoser> http://www.openstack.org/summit/openstack-summit-hong-kong-2013/
 * smoser cut and paste fail
<smoser> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<smoser> anyone have anything her e?
<smoser> k
<smoser> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date and time
<smoser> tune in next week at Tuesday 2013-08-27 at 1600 UTC for the continuing saga of ubuntu server development.
<arosales> smoser, thanks for chairing
<smoser> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Aug 20 16:44:51 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-08-20-16.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-08-20-16.00.html
<jamespage> thanks smoser
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Aug 20 17:01:07 2013 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Saucy
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<kamal> o/
<sconklin> o/
<henrix> o/
 * smb hastes in
<ogasawara> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<jsalisbury> No new update this week.
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/~canonical-kernel-distro-team/+upcomingwork
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-s/canonical-kernel-distro-team.html
<ogasawara> || apw       || foundations-1305-arm64-bringup || 2 work items ||
<ogasawara> || ppisati   || foundations-1305-kernel        || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || sforshee  || pm-system-policy               || 2 work items ||
<ogasawara> || smb       || servercloud-s-virtstack        || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ..
<rtg> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Saucy Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Saucy Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> We have uploaded a new Saucy kerel based on the v3.11-rc6 upstream kernel.
<ogasawara> We'll continue tracking the v3.11 kernel for the remainder of the Saucy
<ogasawara> 13.10 release.
<ogasawara> -----
<ogasawara> The 12.04.3 point release is set to release this Thurs, Aug 22.  I am
<ogasawara> hearing rumors there may be a small slip, ie 1 day slip, but it should
<ogasawara> be going out this week.  We are not aware of any critical issues at this
<ogasawara> time that would warrant any respins.
<ogasawara> -----
<ogasawara> Lastly, Virtual UDS is next week, Tues-Thurs Aug 27-29.  I've gone ahead
<ogasawara> and opened a generic kernel catch-all blueprint.  Feel free to add any
<ogasawara> topics which you would like to discuss.
<ogasawara> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-1308-kernel
<ogasawara> -----
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/ReleaseSchedule
<ogasawara> Thurs Aug 22 - 12.04.3 (~2 days away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Aug 29 - Beta 1 freeze (~1 week away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Sep 05 - Beta 1 (~2 weeks away)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's
<jsalisbury> == 2013-08-20 ==
<jsalisbury> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Raring/Quantal/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/sconklin)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Raring/Quantal/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/sconklin)
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until today (July 23):
<bjf>   *   Lucid - Prep'ing
<bjf>   * Precise - Prep'ing
<bjf>   * Quantal - Prep'ing
<bjf>   * Raring  - Prep'ing
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Aug 20 17:04:51 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-08-20-17.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-08-20-17.01.html
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury
<sconklin> thanks
 * slickymaster is away: I'm busy
 * slickymaster is away: [Got to work]
 * slickymaster is away: Got to work>
 * slickymaster is away: <Got to work>
 * slickymaster is away: Got to work
<genii> Hm.
<genii> !away
<ubottu> Please do not use noisy away messages and nicks in Ubuntu channels. It is annoying and unnecessary. Use the command "/away <reason>" to set your client away silently. See also Â«/msg ubottu GuidelinesÂ»
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-08-21
<jared> !rmb
<ubottu> cjohnston, cyphermox, Destine, ejat,  hggdh, IdleOne, iulian, micahg,  Pendulum, PabloRubienes, freeflying, jared, amachu, and bkerensa. Meeting time.
<cyphermox> howdy!
<jared> cyphermox: so you and me, we need 2 more for quorum.
<Ck> Hi
<kokoye2007> hello
<kokoye2007> Ck:
<cyphermox> mzanetti: around?
<kokoye2007> micahg: cyphermox
<jared> Good evening mzanetti, Ck and kokoye2007. We're just awaiting a few more board members to start the meeting.
<mzanetti> hi
<kokoye2007> exit
<mzanetti> yeah, I'm around
<mzanetti> sorry for missing the meeting last time
<ck_> Me too .In our country connection was too bad.
<jared> !rmb
<ubottu> cjohnston, cyphermox, Destine, ejat,  hggdh, IdleOne, iulian, micahg,  Pendulum, PabloRubienes, freeflying, jared, amachu, and bkerensa. Meeting time.
<jared> Just in case
<freeflying> jared, hi
<jared> Ok that makes 4
<jared> #startmeeting 1200 UTC Ubuntu Membership Board
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Aug 21 12:19:43 2013 UTC.  The chair is jared. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 1200 UTC Ubuntu Membership Board Meeting | Current topic:
<jared> Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Review Board for the 1200 UTC meeting for August 21, 2013.
<jared> The wiki page for the Review Board is available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards
<jared> We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting. If we are unable to make it through the entire list due to time constraints, then at the next meeting we will pick up where we left off.
<jared> The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
<jared> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
<jared> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
<jared> When the board is ready to vote, they will publicly vote in the channel with either +1, 0, or -1 (for membership, abstain, and against membership, respectively).
<jared> #voters cyphermox freeflying Destine jared
<meetingology> Current voters: Destine cyphermox freeflying jared
<jared> Now, without any further ado, lets get started with the first applicant...
<jared> #subtopic mzanetti
<mzanetti> hi
<jared> #topic mzanetti
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 1200 UTC Ubuntu Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: mzanetti
<jared> mzanetti: thanks for coming along, can you please introduce yourself to the board
<mzanetti> Well, I'm Michael.
<mzanetti> My current relation to Ubuntu is that I work for canonical and in my spare time try to contribute some other stuff to Ubuntu Touch
<mzanetti> In my history (and still a bit) I'm contributing to KDE
<mzanetti> the main reason why I apply for membership is to be able to blog on planet.ubuntu
<mzanetti> ofc the other stuff you "get" is fun too :)
<mzanetti> here's my wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/mzanetti
<jared> mzanetti: your application wiki page is a little sparse, is there anyone here to support your involvement? We usually like to see some community endorsements to show involvement
<mzanetti> hmmm. Jono said he would do if needed, but he's not around. I can ping him
<mzanetti> seems it's too early for him
<freeflying> mzanetti, :)
<mzanetti> well, thb I hoped my blog with latest entries about ubuntu touch would be convincing enough :)
<mzanetti> here it is http://notyetthere.org/
<jared> On the notthereyet?
<mzanetti> yeah
<cyphermox> mzanetti: could you say more about what you work on, like, which projects that are of importance to Ubuntu?
<jared> mzanetti: I'm scanning it now
<mzanetti> yeah: I'm working on a bunch of apps. For example I'm in the process of porting my MeeGo apps to ubuntu touch. That is Xbmcremote and GetMeWheels for now. others to follow
<mzanetti> lately I also started to port Marble to Ubuntu Touch. Current state is that it compiles for Qt5
<mzanetti> and of course unity8, which is my job tho
<mzanetti> here is my launchpad page: https://launchpad.net/~mzanetti
<freeflying> mzanetti, marble without kde stuff?
<mzanetti> yep
<cyphermox> mzanetti: are you involved in your LoCo team?
<mzanetti> freeflying: I imagine it to be similar to the Nokia N9 edition in the end
<mzanetti> cyphermox: no, I'm not
<freeflying> mzanetti, sounds likely
<cyphermox> outside your work-related contributions, who do you normally interact with? is there someone else who would cheer for you?
<mzanetti> well, depends, I mostly interact at the ubuntu-phone mailing list for that
<mzanetti> or irc, but mostly work-mates I'd say
<cyphermox> ubuntu-phone is good
<mzanetti> and one important communication channel, which is blogging, is the main reason I apply for. to be able to make people aware about the stuff I do.
<mzanetti> for example the howto on syncing ubuntu touch with syncevolution
<mzanetti> or have visibility on the launchpad ppa's with my apps so people can easily test/use them
<mzanetti> it's here btw: https://launchpad.net/~mzanetti/+archive/testing
<cyphermox> re: syncevolution, indeed that's quite helpful. playing with evo manually is painful on touch
<mzanetti> ah right. I forgot. Also wrote an app for Ubuntu touch for fitbit users
<cyphermox> dholbach: ping?
<jared> mzanetti: sorry we're doing a lot of reading
<mzanetti> no problem
<jared> mzanetti: if you can rouse any supporters from other channesl (preferably members) it would be useful
<smartboyhw> mzanetti, I would suggest for #ubuntu-touch
<mzanetti> I think I found one :)
<mzanetti> om26er: ^
<jared> om26er: are you about to vouch for mzanetti 's significant and sustained contribnutions via Ubuntu Touch?
<om26er> Hey guys, I am here to support mzanetti for his Ubuntu Membership
<om26er> jared, yes actually, He have been doing great work for Ubuntu Touch much outside of his job work from what I have seen over the past few months
<jared> om26er: great, and it's been sustained (we usually like to see about one release cycle)
<om26er> jared, that's atleast since january from what I remember
<jared> om26er: awesome to hear
<jared> Well we should really get to a vote, sorry to all for it dragging out
<jared> #vote mzanetti  to obtain Ubuntu Membership (remembering only Board Members can vote)
<meetingology> Please vote on: mzanetti  to obtain Ubuntu Membership (remembering only Board Members can vote)
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<mzanetti> also, tsdgeos is not a ubuntu member, but he knows me and my contributions for a while
<mzanetti> right tsdgeos?
<tsdgeos> exactly
<jared> tsdgeos: you're able to support mzanetti's efforts in Ubuntu Touch?
<tsdgeos> i can
<tsdgeos> +1
<tsdgeos> f that helps at all
<jared> tsdgeos: thanks for that, we just like to confirm applicants are involved int he community as well
<jared> +1 I think you are doing some really good work, the application was a little sparse but I think we have got there in the end with enough information
<meetingology> +1 I think you are doing some really good work, the application was a little sparse but I think we have got there in the end with enough information received from jared
<Destine> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Destine
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<freeflying> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from freeflying
<jared> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: mzanetti  to obtain Ubuntu Membership (remembering only Board Members can vote)
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<freeflying> congrats mzanetti
<om26er> \o/
<cyphermox> yay! congrats mzanetti
<jared> Congratulations mzanetti on obtaining Ubuntu Membership :)
<mzanetti> thanks guys :)
<om26er> congrats mzanetti
<Destine> congratulations! mzanetti
<Ck>  congratulation mzanetti
<mzanetti> \o/
<jared> I don't like to cut congratulations short but I'd like to move to the second applicant so we don't go too far over time if possible
<jared> mzanetti: you'll be added to the LP group soonish, then you can make the request to the planet team I believe.
<jared> #topic Ck
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 1200 UTC Ubuntu Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: Ck
<mzanetti> jared: cheers
<kokoye2007> welcom mzanetti
<jared> Thanks for waiting Ck, can you please introduce yourself while we read the application
<kokoye2007> welcome mzanetti
<Ck> Hi every one
<Ck> this is Chit Ko Ko Win from Myanmar and this is my 2nd try
<Ck> I help translation wiki into burmese language and
<Ck> burmese localization team .
<jared> Thanks for putting the extra information in the application, we're just reading over it now
<Ck> I translate some articles in http://chitkoko.ubuntu-mm.net/
<Ck> and we translate ubuntuguide.org 80% done in offline and
<Ck> next month will be publish.
<freeflying> Ck, do you have any plan on ubuntu dev document?
<jared> Ck: I also notice there isn't a lot of translation on launchpad, is that for a reason?
<Ck> Yes, I try to translate Ubuntu -manual guide into burmese language offline
<Ck> Yes, we 're poor connection
<Ck> but edit at PO
<Ck> Right now , I teach ubuntu training 4day -aweek and 3 months.
<jared> Ck: ah, that's ok. I was curious as you all seem to do lots of translation but not much on launchpad. I understand now
<Ck> already past 4 weeeks. .
<Ck> yesa
<Ck> I know
<jared> #voters cyphermox freeflying Destine jared hggdh
<meetingology> Current voters: Destine cyphermox freeflying hggdh jared
<Ck> right now ,I gave a time for people in our class
<Ck> sorry for launchpad.
<hggdh> Ck no problem
<Ck> In our country ,connection back bone wasw cut in past weeks.
<jared> jounih: are you the same Jouni on Ck (Chit's) wiki page? It's not signed with a LP or Wiki login so just confirming
<kokoye2007> Ck: is Our Local Community Top Contributor
<jounih> jared - hi, yep that's me
<Ck> Yes. this is me.
<jared> jounih: great to see, they look like they're doing great work in Myanmar, last time Chit applied it was hard to tell which members were doing what.
<jounih> jared, yep, they are doing brilliant work over there, I met them in March when we were doing a couple of talks together on Ubuntu and Ubuntu Touch
<jared> jounih: awesome
<jounih> Chit Ko, Ko Ko Ye and a few others travel around the country lecturing about Ubuntu - completely on their own expense and with the help of some local sponsors
<jounih> they've managed to push ubuntu to be the 2nd most used OS in the country, it's pretty impressive
<jounih> largely due to the education and the localisation work they do
<jared> jounih: awesome
<Ck> you can find our work done in http://www.flickr.com/groups/ubuntu-mm and we already change
<Ck> Myanmar semi -gov .
<Ck> into Ubuntu  OS.
<jounih> i've got a bunch of video i shot over there, just editing it to a couple of minutes long clip, going to publish that on our blog and send to Mark S to check out. I think there's a big opportunity for Ubuntu Toouch over there too (if we can localise it to Burmese), as they are opening up the telco market and letting foreign telcos in
<freeflying> Ck, brilliant
<jared> Ck: your application is much better this time aruond, sorry for the hassles last time btu I don't think the language barrier helped.
<hggdh> jounih: we do appreciate your help here, thank you
<jared> #vote Ck  to obtain Ubuntu Membership (remembering only Board Members can vote)
<meetingology> Please vote on: Ck  to obtain Ubuntu Membership (remembering only Board Members can vote)
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<jared> +1 great work by the Myanmar team in general, thanks for updating your application page to make it easier to see who has contributed in what ways.
<meetingology> +1 great work by the Myanmar team in general, thanks for updating your application page to make it easier to see who has contributed in what ways. received from jared
<hggdh> +1 please keep on, we appreciate your work!
<meetingology> +1 please keep on, we appreciate your work! received from hggdh
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<Destine> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Destine
<kokoye2007> Ck is Ubuntu Myanmar LoCo Team Future Leader
<kokoye2007> +1 via me :P
<hggdh> :-)
 * cyphermox thinks perhaps it's time someone implements the private voting in meetingology, just to remove the message :)
<jared> cyphermox: hah yeah, but at least the #voters means they can't accidentally count (I've seen that happen in the past)
<cyphermox> yes
<jared> kokoye2007: good to hear there is succession planning, that is very important in locos
<cyphermox> me too ;)
<freeflying> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from freeflying
<jared> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Ck  to obtain Ubuntu Membership (remembering only Board Members can vote)
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<hggdh> Ck: welcome!
<jared> Well done Ck (and thanks to kokoye2007 for helping out with the application)
<jared> jounih: thanks for coming along to support as well
<jounih> no worries, my pleasure
<kokoye2007> proud with Ck thx jounih jared hggdh freeflying cyphermox Destine
<Ck>  Ubuntu OS is most favourite in our country  .
 * hggdh loves it
<Ck> I promise what i can do more than I can..
<jared> Ck: thanks for persisting, last time was a bit difficult for us on the board to determine. If you and kokoye2007 can show the rest of them how to update the applications we're more than happy to reconsider others if they ahve also had significant contributions
<Ck> Yes , Thanks jared. I 'll do it.
<kokoye2007> thank for guideline and kind jared
<kokoye2007> :D
<Ck> Most of the time we go all around our country with team.
<Ck> thanks everyone .
<jounih> thanks guys, nice work, keep it up :)
<Ck> thanks Jouni. We welcome you to come again our country .
<jounih> will be seeing you again in January in Yangon
<kokoye2007> welcome jounih
<jared> mzanetti & Ck  - you're now both in the launchpad team, thanks very much for your hard work and your applications, I look forward to hearing about your efforts going forward as you both seem to be working on newsworthy items
<mzanetti> jared: thanks a bunch
<jared> mzanetti: glad to help :)
<Ck> hope to see you and love to contribute Ubuntu in Myanmar.
<jared> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Aug 21 13:20:51 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-08-21-12.19.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-08-21-12.19.html
<jounih> hey mzanetti :) got time for a catch up?
<jared> Thanks everyone for showing up, sorry it dragged a little but it was good to get through them both
<mzanetti> jounih: huh?
<mzanetti> jounih: hi btw :) What sort of catch up?
 * slangasek waves
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Aug 21 15:01:51 2013 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<slangasek> [TOPIC] lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek cjwatson xnox stokachu)
<slangasek> barry slangasek jodh bdmurray stgraber stokachu xnox ev cjwatson doko
<barry> system image updates: meetings; LP: #1212781 (new dbus api).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1212781 in Ubuntu system image "Update the DBus API to the new specification" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1212781
<barry> other: virtualenv 0.10.1 review, python-pip 1.4.1-1, tox 1.6.1-1, etc.
<barry> done
<slangasek>  * last week:
<slangasek>   * DebConf: upstart, multiarch, arm discussions
<slangasek>  * this week:
<slangasek>   * sorting out the question of repartitioning phones on install
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek> (also: sorting out jetlag)
<bdmurray> phased-updater change to not send emails about fully phased updates
<bdmurray> phased-updater change to override increased rates, restart at highest p-u-p,
<bdmurray> phased-updater change log more details regarding rates, identify security updates
<bdmurray> blog post, ubuntu-devel email regarding phased update process
<bdmurray> research into increased crash rates at error tracker
<bdmurray> package to team mapping work on unsubscribed packages
<bdmurray> SRU verification of bug 1194541, 1205374 (mostly)
<bdmurray> Researched, fixed bug 1173013 regarding gdebi and password failure
<bdmurray> analysis of bug 1157900
<ubottu> bug 1194541 in apport (Ubuntu Raring) "Create core dumps for setuid binaries" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1194541
<ubottu> bug 1205374 in whoopsie (Ubuntu Quantal) "Only attempts to retry the existing crash reports once, after two hours." [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1205374
<ubottu> bug 1173013 in libgksu (Ubuntu Raring) "libgksu authentication mode set to su" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1173013
<ubottu> bug 1157900 in software-properties (Ubuntu Raring) "add-apt-repository crashed with ImportError in get_ppa_info_from_lp(): No module named 'pycurl'" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1157900
<bdmurray> investigation into apport bug 1119543
<bdmurray> submitted merge proposal for bug 1097773
<bdmurray> reported ubuntu-release-upgrader bug 1210643
<bdmurray> submitted RT regarding access to querying errors cassandra db
<bdmurray> fixed an issue with arsenal and tag searching
<ubottu> bug 1168849 in apport (Ubuntu Raring) "duplicate for #1119543 crashes while reporting a Synaptics bug - fills up /tmp" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1168849
<ubottu> bug 1097773 in apport (Ubuntu Raring) "apport-gtk crashed with ValueError in _apt_pkg(): package skype-bin does not exist" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1097773
<ubottu> bug 1210643 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Saucy) "UnsupportedDialog not displayed for an unsupported release" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1210643
<bdmurray> sponsored upload fixing bug 670096 from jm-leddy for lupin
<bdmurray> worked with kees on provisional MRE review
<bdmurray> code review of mvo's ubuntu-release-upgrader text-install-progress branch
<ubottu> bug 670096 in OEM Priority Project precise "Ubuntu fails to boot from ISO if there's a NTFS partition with Windows hibernated on it." [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/670096
<bdmurray> â done
<slangasek> stgraber:
<stgraber> Haven't been attending the meeting for a month or so.
<stgraber>  - Attended the release engineering sprint in London (worked on cdimage changelogs, system image and some archive admin tools and tasks)
<stgraber>  - Attended Debconf13 in Vaumarcus (talked quite a bit about secure boot, upstart and lxc with various people)
<stgraber>  - Preparing LXC 1.0 alpha1 (due next week), so quite a bit of code reviews, CI work and fixing LXC to build on Android again
<stgraber>  - Got back home yesterday evening
<stgraber>  - Working on 12.04.3 paperwork (release notes and announcement)
<stgraber>  - Have to get a new daily-proposed channel ready on system-image + migration scripts to copy to daily once tested
<stgraber> (done)
<slangasek> stokachu: heya!  anything for the lightning round?
<stokachu> slangasek: yea sorry one sec
<stokachu> bug 1157943 - stalled needs comment from maintainer, bug 1191704 needs sponsors
<ubottu> bug 1157943 in apt (Ubuntu Precise) "apt-get update fails hash checks on https repositories when file size changes" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1157943
<ubottu> bug 1191704 in heimdal (Ubuntu) "KDCs complain about not having enough file handles for /var/lib/heimdal-kdc/heimdal" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1191704
<stokachu> bug 833994 - probably needs a final say on whether doing certificates without checks is somethinjg we want to consider
<ubottu> bug 833994 in debian-installer-utils (Ubuntu) "debian-installer does not support https when using with preseed files" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/833994
<stokachu> done.
<slangasek> bug #1157943 seems to stalled wrt discussions with apt upstream?
<xnox> ah me.
<ubottu> bug 1157943 in apt (Ubuntu Precise) "apt-get update fails hash checks on https repositories when file size changes" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1157943
<xnox> * Multiarch icu-dev (for boost), forwarded to debian
<xnox> * Move liblzo2 to /lib to unbreak btrfs & partman-btrfs
<xnox> * Wokring on installer bugs in partman-auto and hw-detect
<xnox> * Preparing ubiquity for FeatureFreeze (U1 plugin enablement by default)
<xnox> * all but 4.7 db packages are now in-sync with debian
<xnox> * Working on android emulator (more about that later) - i got
<xnox>   phablet-saucy branches to build goldfish kernel & images, not tested
<xnox>   if they boot in the emulator
<xnox> done.
<stokachu> slangasek: i think support was wanting an update from David
<ev> - Tail end of fixing a fairly hairy and hard to reproduce memory corruption bug
<ev>   in whoopsie (LP: #1211417).
<ev> - Reworked our Touch upstart job to call whoopsie-upload-all as a means of
<ev>   collecting additional report data and signalling to whoopsie that it should
<ev>   upload the report. Much thanks for jodh and pitti for providing guidance.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1211417 in whoopsie (Ubuntu) "whoopsie takes 100% CPU on the phone" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1211417
<stokachu> *donkult
<ev> - Working through improving our continuous integration story with Alexander.
<ev>   Wrote up a proposal for some nearer term changes.
<ev> - Working with the lovely folks at Acunu on building a schema and some test
<ev>   cases in Analytics. We've got the weighted average errors per calendar day
<ev>   working and have moved on to building the "what's interesting about this
<ev>   problem" section. Starting to get the hang of it. I'll work on getting the
<slangasek> stokachu: David being apt upstream
<ev>   weighted average errors deployed soon since I keep getting bugged about the
<ev>   graphs on errors.u.c being entirely broken, and I suspect it will be some
<ev>   time before our prodstack deployment is ready.
<ev> - Charmed Acunu Analytics. Reached out to them for some feedback.
<ev> - Started work on dropping gnetworkmonitor (for more of NetworkManager) from
<ev>   whoopsie as a way of avoiding gvariant, avoiding a dependency on gio,
<ev>   reducing the memory burden, and most importantly reducing the ridiculous
<ev>   number of wakeups that gnetworkmonitor causes.
<stokachu> slangasek: ah ok
<slangasek> stokachu: I suggest prodding him again
<ev> - Helped the web team by reviewing their work on redesigning juju.ubuntu.com.
<ev> - Booked into the cloud sprint. Looking into the QA sprint, but this one seems
<ev>   unlikely given other travel plans.
<ev> Random:
<ev> - I'm off on Friday and Monday.
<ev> - Work continues on recovering the data from the old Cassandra cluster and
<stokachu> slangasek: then yes :)
<stokachu> ok
<ev>   upgrading to 1.2. This is largely in the hands of Acunu and webops:
<ev>   https://rt.admin.canonical.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=63904
<ev>   Things are a bit slow this week as the IS managers are sprinting, so it's
<ev>   largely just been David working on it. Presumably we're blocked on moving the
<ev>   retracers and {daisy,errors}.u.c into prodstack for this reason:
<ev>   https://rt.admin.canonical.com//Ticket/Display.html?id=58019
<ev> - Phased updating seems to be working well at identifying real problems:
<ev>   https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/7fb9e3e8592180e543a58250ce45c1f3ea12646e
<ev>   Though it might be a bit fuzzy until we get the missing data from the old
<stokachu> ill make a note in that for support
<ev>   Cassandra deployment integrated back in. Well done, bdmurray!
<ev> - Convinced three other London Canonical employees to join me for this:
<ev>   http://www.meetup.com/Cassandra-London/events/135739442/
<ev> (done)
<slangasek> ev: hrmm, so we're still in data recovery mode wrt Cassandra?  I had the impression we made it past that
<slangasek> phased updates \o/
<ev> slangasek: we've got a database that works and we're using that, but we're still trying to get the data out of the old one
<slangasek> ok
<ev> while upgrading to 1.2, enabling compression and moving over to a larger cluster
<slangasek> right :/
<slangasek> doko: cjwatson is off, so you're next
<ev> (merging together three clusters, since the old stuff ended up getting split across two clusters)
<ev> I'm frustrated with how long this is taking, but I'm understanding of just how many steps are involved to ensure we're not making things worse
<stokachu> bdmurray: would you be willing to look at that kdc bug?
<doko> oops
<doko> - DebConf
<doko> - Integrating various cross build patches and issues into GCC
<doko> - Start looking at current GCC test failures in saucy (500 in libjava, 50 thread related in libstdc++)
<doko> - AArch64 uploads, gcc-4.8 4.8.1-9 build
<doko> - Preparing saucy test rebuild (wanting glibc-2.18 to be included into this rebu
<doko> ild).
<doko> - Looking at various AArch64 workloads and see what needs to be done to build/enable these.
<bdmurray> stokachu: I'll have a look
<doko> (done, some bug doesn't let xchat scroll down to the end :-/ )
<stokachu> bdmurray: thanks man
<slangasek> doko: thanks
<slangasek> any questions over status?
<ev> (oh, I also forgot to point out that thanks to rsalveti and oli, I've got a working Mir on my nexus 4, so I can start work on hanging applications come Tuesdayish)
<slangasek> huzzah
<xnox> =)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else to discuss?
<slangasek> oh, I should mention
<slangasek> vUDS is next week, if you haven't already noticed
<slangasek> so if there are things you want to discuss during UDS, please get your blueprints submitted ASAP (and drop me a link to them to get them on the schedule)
<stokachu> did we see a significant decline in blueprints this go around?
<ev> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-1308-click-error-reporting doesn't appear to be scheduled yet
<slangasek> stokachu: I think there's not much new in Foundations land for us to discuss right now, so I expect our volume of blueprints will be down... but if there is anything anyone here wants to discuss, please get the blueprint in
<slangasek> ev: yes, I'll do a round of scheduling today
<stokachu> slangasek: gotcha
<xnox> slangasek: hm, I think there is some bits to discuss on how, if ever, we might go about supporting i386+efi installation media.
<ev> whoop
<slangasek> xnox: feel free to submit a blueprint - from the UE side this is not something we should invest in right now, but that obviously doesn't mean it can't be discussed
<ev> slangasek: if you could keep that off Tuesday, that would be ideal
<xnox> (i think infinity + kernel people + installer / enablement) need to discuss it a bit. As there are a few places where amd64 == efi is hardcoded. and whether we want to support 64bitefi but 32bit kernel/userspace.
<slangasek> ev: understood
<xnox> slangasek: ok.
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Touch device emulation on the desktop
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Touch device emulation on the desktop
 * xnox \o/
<xnox> So in the archive we already have the following packages:
<slangasek> so for this week's topic: xnox has been working on figuring out how to enable us to run a Touch environment under emulation on the desktop
 * slangasek yields the floor :)
<xnox> * gcc-arm-linux-androideabi which is a gcc4.7 based toolchain with
<xnox>   bionic libc
<xnox> * android - a package which at the moment compiles minimal android
<xnox>   system image which is then "launched" in the lxc container in the
<xnox>   final image. (it also compiles boot.img and recovery.img for all the
<xnox>   base targets)
<xnox> but above do not at the moment build images suitable for the android emulator.
<xnox> But otherwise you can totally compile binaries for android phones / android-lxc
<xnox> container / recovery image using above toolchain and load it up with
<xnox> adb.
<xnox> * caveat we only provide latest NDK/SDK level as used by Ubuntu Touch
<xnox>   images, so those binaries may not run on various Android devices
<xnox> == What's android emulator? ==
<xnox> * stock AOSP can compile for a Board target "full" which is similar to
<xnox>   a typical tagets (e.g. mako/nexus4, grouper/nexus7, etc) with a few
<xnox>   changes:
<xnox>   - no proprietary driver blobs
<xnox>   - uses goldfish 3.4 android kernel (can use a prebuilt one)
<xnox>   - targets armhv7 without neon (while in real world neon is faster,
<xnox>   in qemu emulating neon instructions is slower than running without
<xnox>   neon)
<xnox>   - images generated can be yaffs2, ext4 sparse, ext4
<xnox>   - the emulator is custom compiled/forked acient version of qemu
<xnox>   havily patches to support android like hw: sim card emulated, abient
<xnox>   light senors, hardware phone keys, gps, forwarding webcam to
<xnox>   back/forward camera or using fake images, etc.
<xnox> (it will be hard to merge with recent qemu upstream, due to many hacks & regressions in hw support layer)
<xnox>   - supports setting various options w.r.t. screen-resolution,
<xnox>   available RAM, partition sizes, etc.
<xnox>   - does not have recovery partition, or any way to run update.zip, or
<xnox>   apply upgrades
<xnox> (one can theoretically boot into "recovery" image as if it was default OS, but that's not useful, since the normal os data/system/cache partitions would not be available)
<slangasek> xnox: so when targeting "full", it uses a bundled qemu from the android source?  Is that the right thing to do, or would this be runnable under our packaged qemu?
<xnox> also this means no fastboot support, only adb.
<xnox> slangasek: it will not run under our packaged qemu.
<xnox> (and well partial adb support, as adb reboot-bootloader has no bootloader to reboot into =)))) )
<slangasek> ok - is that because of missing emulation for the android hw you mentioned?
 * barry still hopes someday for LP: #1192587
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1192587 in Ubuntu system image "lxc container tests" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1192587
<xnox> slangasek: yeah. plus google employees found errors and mistakes in armhf instruction set emulation in newer qemu / when merging in the fork.
<xnox> (well attemping to update the fork)
<xnox>   - in addition to armhfv7 also supports armhv7+neone, armhv5,
<xnox>   i386 atom, mips.
<slangasek> oh, interesting
<slangasek> I wonder if anyone has told pmaydell
<slangasek> xnox: so what do we get wrt GL in the emulated environment?
<xnox> at the moment we only have ubuntu-touch chroot builds for armhfv7, which should be ok. but there is interest in using i386-atom emulator since it should be theoretically faster on typical developer machine.
<xnox> slangasek: there are three options w.r.t. GL in the emulator: pass-throught to host, or compile GL bridge for host & emulator, or compile GL bridge for host, emulator and the client inside it.
<xnox> at the moment i'm building without GL, but it can be enabled later once the images start booting.
<slangasek> ok
<xnox> problem: bits of api that are in the android system lxc image do not compile on
<xnox> stock AOSP project, since (a) we based on cyanogenmod (b) we patched
<xnox> cyanogenmod to allow/improve/expose some additional android
<xnox> internals/private API.
<xnox> further fun: cyanogenmod didn't find interesting to keep emulator
<xnox> targets working thus at the moment the AOSP default emulator build
<xnox> target (full-eng) is broken on cyanogenmod (missing dependancies,
<xnox> targets, out of date forked config....). So it seems to support
<xnox> emulator "properly" somebody started a device port "cm-goldfish-eng"
<xnox> which tries to build goldfish image more inline like the rest of
<xnox> cyanogenmod devices. That targets gets the build further, but is also
<xnox> not fully functional.
<slangasek> doh
<xnox> rsalveti/phonedations/myself started to bring up "cm-goldfish-eng"
<xnox> target in our fork and with a few patches it seems like I now finally get (a)
<xnox> kernel (b) ext4 images large enough to host ubuntu rootfs. But it
<xnox> didn't boot yet - needs further tweaking of android init scripts /
<xnox> mountpoint options / etc.
<xnox> ..... current status
<xnox> emulator builds from one tree.
<xnox> android builds from another tree (and boot on above emulator)
<xnox> ubuntu-touch builds from a third tree, but alas does not work with above two (linker / missing symbols / borked init config)
<xnox> ..
<xnox> this week I managed to build android & ubuntu-touch bits from a single tree (ours) and will be continuing on to
<xnox> actually boot it on an emulator.
<xnox> all armhfv7 based.
<xnox> ones we have a working armhfv7 image it should work/boot on the pre-compiled android emulators which are available for linux/macox/windows.
<slangasek> man, what a rat's nest :)
<xnox> there are also mariad (>>10) alternative free/opensource/commercial android emulators that may be better.
<slangasek> in the near term, I think the primary target for the emulator ought to be a qemu we can build ourselves
<xnox> e.g. at the moment android stock emulator hangs if one launces it with "audio" enabled. (known upstream bug, with no progress and >>200 people starred it)
<xnox> slangasek: so at the moment we still have android-tools package, which is AOSP based tree of unitilies only.
<xnox> slangasek: we can add emulator sources there, and package AOSP emulator from that one.
<xnox> as cyanogen mod, and phablet-saucy emulators do not compile at the moment at all.
<slangasek> xnox: seems like something to discuss with the Debian maintainer before pulling the trigger on, yes?
<xnox> slangasek: well android-tools maintainers are all agreeable ubuntu/linaro folks.
<xnox> at the moment we worked android-tools to build native adbd (for flipped model, ubuntu rootfs)
<xnox> s/worked/forked/
<slangasek> xnox: oh, the uploaders at least - the Maintainer is apparently not
<slangasek> but I would hate for Ubuntu to carry a merge delta of "the emulator tree" :)
<slangasek> (actually, is our adbd build currently part of the delta? yuck?)
<xnox> gcc-android cross-compiler is based on linaro-android tree so in the archive at the moment we have: 3 partial android trees.
<xnox> i'd love to consolidate them all on a single tree.....
<xnox> (phablet-saucy, AOSP, linaro)
<slangasek> wouldn't that be nice :)
<xnox> maybe after eglibc -> glibc migration =)
<slangasek> xnox: any suggestions about how we could go about accomplishing that?
<slangasek> I guess there are phablet-saucy changes that we couldn't really push to either of the others
<slangasek> I don't know how much the cyanogenmod vs. AOSP differences matter to us, but I guess even just rebasing would be nontrivial
 * slangasek wonders if the rest of the audience has gone to sleep :)
<ev> it's times like these I wish we kept popcorn in the office
<xnox> slangasek: ship android-src packages similar to what gcc-source package is, but possible multiple ones - bare minimal build scripts + utilities, a bit more to build bionic/compiler, the rest to build emulators and real images.
<slangasek> ev: go to DebConf, they apparently have popcorn
<xnox> and then create extra "empty" packages to compile: utils, compiler, per-device image.
<xnox> emulator.
<ev> slangasek: I've already made my "I take it back, I wish I went to debconf (for the cake)" post ;)
<slangasek> xnox: but if it's multiple android-src packages, that doesn't sound like consolidation to me?
<slangasek> ev: hah
<xnox> slangasek: single android-src:src package, multiple binary android-src-*:all. As the full 100MB compressed tree is not needed for all builds.
<xnox> and one "edition" of thereoff, that works for all.
<xnox> slangasek: one can use single android-src package, it's just it will be large for something like - build utilities or compiler, as it will have code which is compiled during that build.
<slangasek> xnox: but you're still talking about keeping three branches of the source AIUI (phablet, AOSP, linaro)
<slangasek> putting it into a single source package seems like consolidation in name only
<xnox> slangasek: no, i'd want to use phablet only. Reverted back to AOSP where needed (e.g. emulator, utilities). linaro one should not be needed (it was simply the easiest way to bring up the working cross compiler)
<slangasek> ah, ok
<slangasek> would we actually need to revert the utilities back?
<xnox> so single tree, but still patched/diverged from AOSP/cyanogenmod. Something approx. equivalent how our "normal" gcc is: linaro patches, on top of debian patches, on top of FSF tree.
<xnox> slangasek: i don't think so, more likely merge newer AOSP versions of utilities (e.g. adb that does verification/authentication with target device)
<xnox> cyanogenmod didn't take / enable authentication.
<slangasek> hmm, alright
<xnox> low priority though.
<slangasek> yep, makes sense
<slangasek> so - any other questions about the emulator work?
<xnox> at the moment all pieces are disconnected and easy to update individually and all of them work as intended (sans emulator)
<slangasek> there will be a quiz later... when you'll all be expected to be able to use it ;)
 * barry reaches for the cliff notes
<xnox> using emulator is  easy: from command line, or a graphical java based GUI pops up that "integrates" with eclipse to twiddle params and launch the emulator.
<doko> glibc-2.18 should have almost all merges from eglibc, just waiting for the 2.18 upload ...
 * xnox expects to add support to phablet-flash, as a new image types, to simply use emulator images when requested
<ev> Eclipse you say? Better fire it up now and hopefully by the time I need it weeks from now I'll be past the splash screen.
<slangasek> xnox: last question: is there anything anyone could do to help you right now (if they were keen)?
<xnox> slangasek: port lxc to goldfish kernel & see/check that it works.
<xnox> on AOSP images / or anything.
<xnox> which is 3.4 based. I think one of our devices is 3.4 based as well.
<slangasek> xnox: where should someone look for the goldfish kernel?
<xnox> slangasek: http://phablet.ubuntu.com/gitweb?p=CyanogenMod/android_kernel_goldfish.git;a=summary
<slangasek> so no binaries in the archive yet?
<xnox> no, not packaged.
<slangasek> oh, or do you mean that the actual kernel code needs patched?
<xnox> i guess it should be managed as linux-maguro et al kernels.
<xnox> slangasek: yeah, other kernels didn't have lxc either, or did they?
<slangasek> I have no idea
<xnox> slangasek: i don't know, if there were patches, or if it was config changes only.
<slangasek> but if what we need is a linux-goldfish kernel package, we should get that over to the kernel team :)
<xnox> stgraber: how did lxc make it into the linux-mako/maguro/grouper/et al kernels?
<stgraber> xnox: lxc is upstream
<stgraber> xnox: you just need the right set of options enabled in the kernel build
<xnox> stgraber: ok, i'll check the current goldfish config vs the other kernels.
<stgraber> IIRC we support upstream >= 2.6.32 in the current LXC userspace tools
<xnox> spendid.
<xnox> splendid.
<slangasek> any other questions?
<slangasek> (otherwise we're at time, so)
<slangasek> xnox: thanks for taking us down the rabbit hole :)
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Aug 21 16:00:33 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-08-21-15.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-08-21-15.01.html
<stgraber> thanks!
<ev> thanks!
<barry> thanks!
<xnox> =)
<phillw> TheLordOfTime: ping
<phillw> oops. sorry, wrong channel! #ubuntu-bugs please :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-08-25
<AlanBell> hi all
<AlanBell> #startmeeting IRC team
<meetingology> Meeting started Sun Aug 25 18:02:23 2013 UTC.  The chair is AlanBell. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC team Meeting | Current topic:
<AlanBell> hi, who is here for the IRC team meeting?
<Flannel> o/
<ikonia> I'm certainly watching
<AlanBell> Pici: Tm_T: funkyHat: o/
<Tm_T> hi
<Tm_T> only partially available, sorry
<AlanBell> ok
<AlanBell> again, not a heap of stuff on the agenda
<AlanBell> #topic Review last meetings action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC team Meeting | Current topic: Review last meetings action items
<IdleOne> o/
<AlanBell> last meeting was https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/IRCC/20130630 and no actions recorded
<AlanBell> but I never got round to doing a list of things the bots say
<AlanBell> anyhow, lets move on and come back to new actions because I can think of a few things we need to do
<AlanBell> #topic Open items in the IRCC tracker
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC team Meeting | Current topic: Open items in the IRCC tracker
<AlanBell> none in the tracker, there have been no recent formal appeals
<AlanBell> #topic Review Bugs related to the Ubuntu IRC Council
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC team Meeting | Current topic: Review Bugs related to the Ubuntu IRC Council
<AlanBell> no new bugs filed
<AlanBell> #topic Membership applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC team Meeting | Current topic: Membership applications
<AlanBell> we have no new membership applications
<AlanBell> #topic Any Other Business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC team Meeting | Current topic: Any Other Business
<AlanBell> gosh that was quick :)
<bazhang> not m4v ?
<IdleOne> m4v was finnaly approved
<AlanBell> m4v is a member now, was approved a few months ago
<bazhang> alright
<IdleOne> little while ago
<AlanBell> cloak and everything :)
<IdleOne>  there have been no recent formal appeals ?
<AlanBell> indeed, there have not
<IdleOne> This confuses me
<IdleOne> what exactly constitutes a formal appeal?
<AlanBell> someone sending us an email with the details of what they want to appeal about
<IdleOne> I see
<IdleOne> So joining the council channel and making a complaint does not count?
<AlanBell> there have been some discussions with users where we have advised them of how to appeal and we let them talk if they want to say their piece
<AlanBell> anyone can pop in to the #ubuntu-irc-council for a chat at any time, but an appeal is by email
<Tm_T> AlanBell: does appeal process say that?
<IdleOne> it should if not
<ikonia> if you follow the process it says you should email the council on the list after discussing it with the ops
<IdleOne> I haven't read it recently but I recall it saying they can also join the ircc channel. It should be made clear if not
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/AppealProcess
<AlanBell> there is a bit of an OR in there
<IdleOne> there is an either or
<IdleOne> I suggest it be cleared up
<DJones> On the basis that the purpose of #ubuntu-irc-council has never been explained to me since I was accepted as an op in #ubuntu, what is its purpose? is it a a private channel with no idling or something that #ubuntu* ops should be aware of?
<AlanBell> so yes, if people pop in to the channel we do try and sort out what the problem is, but I was generally counting emails as formal appeals
<AlanBell> the channel is very rarely used, it is handy if we want to discuss something with someone so that all the council can see discussions rather than having private messages with us as individuals
<IdleOne> I am fine with making it email if you want this to be a formal complaint OR join the channel if you want to alert the council to something without it being a huge deal type thing
<AlanBell> yeah, that might be good to clarify in the documentation
<IdleOne> AlanBell: only because some of us were under the impression there had been a formal complaint made against some of the ops.
<IdleOne> least that is what we were told.
<IdleOne> Good to know we can continue to abuse our powers without consequence :)
<IdleOne> that was a joke, just in case nobody got it.
<AlanBell>  /kick IdleOne
<Tm_T> IdleOne: this is serious business, we don't understand humout
<Tm_T> r
<bazhang> hummus is welcome though
<AlanBell> hmm, something weird going on with my connection :(
<IdleOne> Tm_T: plz2email for formal complaint. kthx
<bazhang> falafel not included
<Tm_T> done
<AlanBell> ok, so from that
<AlanBell> #action ircc to discuss and clarify what constitutes a formal complaint
<meetingology> ACTION: ircc to discuss and clarify what constitutes a formal complaint
<AlanBell> is there any other other business?
<Flannel> AlanBell: You said you had things earlier (at :09)
<AlanBell> yup, just we need to do a round of cloak audits for people who are expired or whatever
<Flannel> Well, that's not very exciting at all.  What are we paying you for?
<AlanBell> #action AlanBell to make a list of cloaks to remove as per https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Cloaks
<meetingology> ACTION: AlanBell to make a list of cloaks to remove as per https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Cloaks
<AlanBell> and the other thing to mention is that we had a catchup meeting with the CC about a month ago, I will try and find the logs to link
<AlanBell> http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-08-01-17.00.log.html#l-81
<AlanBell> ok, anything else to add?
<AlanBell> lets wrap it up there then
<AlanBell> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Sun Aug 25 18:38:18 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-08-25-18.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-08-25-18.02.html
<AlanBell> thanks everyone
<ikonia> AlanBell: anything of note we should look at in the CC review ?
<IdleOne> thank you
<cjohnston> /26
<AlanBell> ikonia: not really, it was fairly brief
<AlanBell> just wanted to point to those logs in these logs really
<IdleOne> BINGO
<IdleOne> slowly getting BINGO in all my channels
<funkyHat> what!
<funkyHat> Which timezone am I in? I thought 20:00 UTC was 40 minutes from now!
<bazhang> @now UTC
<meetingology> bazhang: Error: "now" is not a valid command.
<ubottu> Current time in Etc/UTC: August 25 2013, 19:19:18
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-08-18
<jdstrand> hi!
<jjohansen> \o
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Aug 18 16:32:07 2014 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I'm in the happy place this week
<chrisccoulson> hi :)
<jdstrand> I plan to focus on apparmor: taking up tyhicks' work, policy updates (abstractions, system, click), testing and ultimately, landing
<jdstrand> I'm keeping an eye on the openstack point release for trusty
<jdstrand> and I'm working with foundations (eg, bhuey) on the pending openjdk-7 security update
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm on triae this week....although I'm off on vacation on wednesday, so it's a short week for me...someone will have to take over triage
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: sarnold and I will handle that
<mdeslaur> I'm currently working on an openssl regression on lucid, that exposed a bug in postfix...postfix is now fixed, and I'm going to publish a regression fix for openssl on lucid this afternoon
<mdeslaur> and I'll monitor any last minute updates I can possibly work on before I go on holiday
<mdeslaur> that's pretty much it for me, sbeattie you're up
<sbeattie> I'm on apparmor this week.
<sbeattie> I'm reviewing jjohansen's abstract socket patches and testing the kernel to help out landing that.
<sbeattie> That's pretty much it for me. tyhicks is not here...
<sbeattie> jjohansen: you're up.
<jjohansen> I am working on revising and landing the abstract socket mediation
<jjohansen> I will also be helping tyhicks with anything he needs for LSS
<jjohansen> I think thats it for me, sarnold you're up
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: why don't you go first
<jdstrand> s/first/now/
<chrisccoulson> this week, I'm focusing on bug 1214034
<ubottu> bug 1214034 in webbrowser-app "Implement API for querying SSL status and certificate information and signalling SSL errors to the embedder" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1214034
<jdstrand> oh nice
<chrisccoulson> I'm also expecting a chromium update from chad, and I have an oxide update to publish too
<jdstrand> securty update?
<chrisccoulson> it is
<jdstrand> is that 1.1?
<chrisccoulson> not yet, it's still 1.0
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: does that mean we are still pulling down new chromium content api into 1.0?
<chrisccoulson> the 1.0 update is the one that goes with chromium 36.0.1985.143
<chrisccoulson> (see http://omahaproxy.appspot.com/)
<jdstrand> so, I guess that is a 'yes' :)
<chrisccoulson> yeah :)
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: curious, when do we expect 1.1 in trusty?
<chrisccoulson> that was driven by the flash update, but there's other fixes in it too
<chrisccoulson> 1.1 is probably in another couple of weeks
 * jdstrand is guessing backporting to both is taking some time
<jdstrand> ackporting isn't the right word
<jdstrand> refreshing for both
<jdstrand> cool
<chrisccoulson> i think that's me done :)
<jdstrand> sarnold doesn't seem to be present, so I'll move along
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ibutils.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libmms.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/cityhash.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/plib.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/lightdm-gtk-greeter.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<sarnold> sorry I'm late. I'm on community this week. I'm finishing a review of some apparmor patches and still have two outstanding MIR audits
<jdstrand> sarnold: did you see the new one for bug #1358272?
<ubottu> bug 1358272 in debsig-verify (Ubuntu) "[MIR] debsig-verify" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1358272
<jdstrand> sarnold: (in backscroll from another channel)
<sarnold> jdstrand: just now, thanks :)
<jdstrand> np
<jdstrand> sarnold: did you have anything else?
<sarnold> jdstrand: no, that was it
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, chrisccoulson, sarnold: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Aug 18 16:56:42 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-08-18-16.32.moin.txt
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
<sarnold> thanks jdstrand
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-08-19
<tinoco> back
<smoser> o/
<gnuoy> o/
<caribou> o/
<kickinz1> o/
<beisner> o/
<smoser> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Aug 19 16:00:39 2014 UTC.  The chair is smoser. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<smoser> welcome everyone to this weeks exciting edition of the Ubuntu Server Team Meeting
<smoser> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<smoser> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<smoser> we dont have a log of last weeks meeting .... gaughen .... but the previous weeks log shows
<smoser> coreycb to take bug 1347567
<ubottu> bug 1347567 in openstack-trove (Ubuntu Utopic) "trove unit tests disabled" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1347567
<coreycb> o/
 * gaughen hangs head in shame
 * kickinz1 in a car
<gaughen> o/
<coreycb> smoser, that's done but I need a review
<coreycb> smoser, zul?
<gaughen> zul's likely on a plane right now
<smoser> i'll put that on my list.
<coreycb> gaughen, ah..  thanks smoser
<smoser> moving on.
<smoser> #action smoser review coreycb MP for bug 1347567
<meetingology> ACTION: smoser review coreycb MP for bug 1347567
<ubottu> bug 1347567 in openstack-trove (Ubuntu Utopic) "trove unit tests disabled" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1347567
<smoser> #topic Utopic Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Utopic Development
<smoser> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/ReleaseSchedule
<matsubara> o/
<smoser> as you may be aware, Thursday is FeatureFreeze
<smoser> so please make every effort to get your features uploaded to utopic
<rharper> \o
<smoser> for anything that will not make thursday, please file a feature freeze exception sooner than later.
<smoser> #subtopic Release Bugs
<smoser> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-u-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<smoser> i dont think there is anything new on that list.
<smoser> please take a gander, and if your name is listed as assignee (kirkland, scottk, coreycb, jamespage) then please make some effort there.
<smoser> #subtopic Blueprints
 * smoser hang head in shame.
<smoser> but all others, please do keep up with blueprints.
<smoser> of which status is recorded at
<smoser> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-u/group/topic-u-server.html
<smoser> #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-u-server
<smoser> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<caribou> smoser: nothing new to bring up this week
<caribou> smoser: thanks
<smoser> fair enough.
<smoser> i'm gonna move on, if anyone has somethign for caribou, please interupt.
<smoser> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
<smoser> psivaa, ?
<psivaa> smoser: only minor issue is that during minimal installation test of utopic-amd64 the installed size is showing ~4.5k bloated
<psivaa> smoser: could not figure out when exactly this was introduced since we had had the install tests broken for a bit
<smoser> how much bigger is that than the trusty install ?
<psivaa> smoser: 4.5 k
<smoser> if we're talking about a few k here or there, its not necessarily any specific addition or deletion.
<smoser> are you sure? as in there was exactly zero buffer in the trusty minimal install to make the target ?
<psivaa> not sure if understand the question
<smoser> you said utopic is ~4.5k "bloated".
<psivaa> smoser: yes when compared to trusty i mean
<smoser> oh. ok. well, do you consider that explicitly a bug ?
<psivaa> smoser: not really, just wanted to point
<smoser> theres automated test output for that ?
<smoser> do you have link ?
<psivaa> yes, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server-dev/ubuntu-test-cases/server-tests-raring/view/head:/testsuites/minimal-virtual/test_install_size/test.py
<smoser> output ?
<psivaa> http://ci.ubuntu.com/smokeng/utopic/server/amd64/20140808/9568/minimal-virtual/1504958/
<smoser> gracias.
<smoser> if anyone has anything else for psivaa, speak up.
<smoser> psivaa, thanks for humoring me :)
<smoser> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
<psivaa> lol, anytime
<smb> Again not much I currently can think of. Are there questions for me
<smoser> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1355891
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1355891 in linux (Ubuntu) "crash on utopic ec2 instance" [High,Confirmed]
<smoser> help there would be appreciated. unless osmething changed, there that is critical to say the least.
<smb> smoser, I kind of know what but not exactly why
<smoser> ok if i action you to look at that by next week ?
<smb> I am already working on it
<smoser> #action smb look at / update but 1355891
<meetingology> ACTION: smb look at / update but 1355891
<smoser> (i took that has 'yes' :)
<smb> utlemming has another bug open
<smoser> link for that ? we can dupe mine.
<smb> bug 1350522
<ubottu> bug 1350522 in linux (Ubuntu Utopic) "EC2 kernel crash due to vmalloc" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1350522
<smoser> smb, feel free to dupe mine.
<smb> ack
<smoser> k. then moving on. bother smb if you have something.
<smoser> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<smoser> well, we have some attentendees to linuxcon
<smoser> hallyn, zul, stgraber, tych0 (i think).
<smoser> anything else?
<smoser> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<smoser> anyone have anything for here ?
<smoser> this is kind of open mic section, so feel free to say anything.
<gaughen> hi smoser
<smoser> or share any kernel-developer jokes at smb's expense.
<gaughen> that's all I have to say
<tych0> aye, i am going to linuxcon
<gaughen> two kernel developers walk into a bar
<smoser> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date and time
<gaughen> I see how you feel about my jokes smoser
<caribou> smoser: thanks
<smoser> i thought that was the punch line, gaughen
<smoser> slapstick comedy.
<smoser> 2 kernel developers hitting head on a bar. thats funny.
<smoser> next meeting will be : Tue Aug 26 16:00:00 UTC 2014
<smb> We never walk in only by twos .... :)
<smoser> i'll go ahead and tell gnuoy that he'll be chair next in jamespage's absense.
<smoser> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Aug 19 16:22:08 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-08-19-16.00.moin.txt
<gaughen> ha!
<gnuoy> oh /o\
<chiluk> o/
<chiluk> nuts too soon.
<arges> o/\o  high five
<cking> way too eager
<jsalisbury> 30 more seconds ;-)
<cking> i can't wait
<smb> now
<smb> o/
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Aug 19 17:00:21 2014 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Utopic
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<arges> o/
<jsalisbury> #
<rtg> o/
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<bjf> o/
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<cking> \o
<ogasawara> o/
<ppisati> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Utopic Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Utopic Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> The Utopic kernel has been rebased to the first v3.16.1 upstream stable
<ogasawara> kernel and uploaded to the archive, ie. linux-3.16.0-9.14.  Please test
<ogasawara> and let us know your results.
<ogasawara> -----
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/ReleaseSchedule
<ogasawara> Thurs Aug 21 - Utopic Feature Freeze (~2 days away)
<ogasawara>   Mon Sep 22 - Utopic Final Beta Freeze (~5 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Sep 25 - Utopic Final Beta (~5 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Oct  9 - Utopic Kernel Freeze (~7 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Oct 16 - Utopic Final Freeze (~8 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Oct 23 - Utopic 14.10 Release (~9 weeks away)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's
<jsalisbury> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Trusty/Saucy/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/kamal/arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Trusty/Saucy/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/kamal/arges)
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until today (Aug. 19):
<bjf>   *   Lucid - verification & testing
<bjf>   * Precise - verification & testing
<bjf>   *  Trusty - verification & testing
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf>  
<bjf> Schedule:
<bjf>  
<bjf> cycle: 08-Aug through 29-Aug
<bjf> ====================================================================
<bjf>          08-Aug   Last day for kernel commits for this cycle
<bjf> 10-Aug - 16-Aug   Kernel prep week.
<bjf> 17-Aug - 23-Aug   Bug verification & Regression testing.
<bjf> 24-Aug - 29-Aug   Regression testing & Release to -updates.
<bjf>  
<bjf>  
<bjf> cycle: 29-Aug through 20-Sep
<bjf> ====================================================================
<bjf>          29-Aug   Last day for kernel commits for this cycle
<bjf> 31-Sep - 06-Sep   Kernel prep week.
<bjf> 07-Sep - 13-Sep   Bug verification & Regression testing.
<bjf> 14-Sep - 20-Sep   Regression testing & Release to -updates.
<bjf>  
<bjf>  
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Aug 19 17:04:15 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-08-19-17.00.moin.txt
<cking> blink
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-08-20
<belkinsa> renebarbosa, may I PM you?
<renebarbosa> belkinsa, hi. yep you can
<renebarbosa> sorry for the delay
<tinoco> back
<MooDoo> hello back ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: man I thought it was word association I was going to say front :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: i'm just an a** ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: Yoou're just an Asterisk?  Fair enough
<tinoco> back
<davmor2> tinoco: is there a reason you keep saying back?
<tinoco> davmor2: my client was misconfigured. thank you for letting me know. fixed it.
<jared> #startmeeting 1200 UTC Ubuntu Membership Board
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Aug 20 11:58:53 2014 UTC.  The chair is jared. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 1200 UTC Ubuntu Membership Board Meeting | Current topic:
<jared> Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Review Board for the 1200 UTC meeting for August 20, 2014.
<jared> The wiki page for the Review Board is available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards
<jared> We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting. If we are unable to make it through the entire list due to time constraints, then at the next meeting we will pick up where we left off.
<jared> The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
<jared> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
<jared> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
<jared> When the board is ready to vote, they will publicly vote in the channel with either +1, 0, or -1 (for membership, abstain, and against membership, respectively). If the sum of those numbers is positive, then the applicant is now an official Ubuntu member! (feel free congratulate them!)
<rickspencer3> hey all
<Tribaal> hi all
<jared> #voters belkinsa Pendulum cyphermox Destine jared
<meetingology> Current voters: Destine Pendulum belkinsa cyphermox jared
<rickspencer3> I'm not a voter?
<popey> uh
<RoozbehShafiee> Hi
<popey> me too â»
<belkinsa> Oh, looks like who we have seven today.
<jared> Ha sorry guys, was just reading off those I knew to be around
<jared> #voters belkinsa Pendulum cyphermox Destine jared rickspencer3 popey
<meetingology> Current voters: Destine Pendulum belkinsa cyphermox jared popey rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> :)
<belkinsa> I made the call in #ubuntu-rmb for who was going to come.
<jared> So, how many of the 4 applicants do we have this evening, we usually try to go in the order they were added to the wiki?
<Tribaal> I'm here
<filipsohajek> I'm here too
<jared> vovd doesn't appear to be here just yet, RoozbehShafiee are you at your keyboard?
<RoozbehShafiee> jared: yes
<jared> thanks Tribaal & filipsohajek
<RoozbehShafiee> jared: im here :)
<jared> Awesome.
<jared> So as discussed we'll go in order of being added to the wiki
<jared> #subtopic RoozbehShafiee
<jared> RoozbehShafiee: can you please introduce yourself to the board while we read over your application?
<RoozbehShafiee> \o/
<RoozbehShafiee> jared: ye
<RoozbehShafiee> yes
<rickspencer3> hi RoozbehShafiee
<RoozbehShafiee> hi rickspencer3
<belkinsa> o/ RoozbehShafiee
<RoozbehShafiee> belkinsa: :)
<RoozbehShafiee> I'm Roozbeh Shafiee
<RoozbehShafiee> Iran OpenStack community coordinator
<RoozbehShafiee> and also contributor in openstack
<RoozbehShafiee> one of Iran ubuntu loco team and ubuntu.ir forum moderator
<RoozbehShafiee> since april 2009
<RoozbehShafiee> a KDE fan since many years ago and actually one of KDE forum moderators
<RoozbehShafiee> my career and job is cloud infrastructure and virtualization architect
<RoozbehShafiee> a user of ubuntu since 2006
<RoozbehShafiee> senior member of Isfahan linux users group
<RoozbehShafiee> and in the end of introduction, I coordinated ubuntu conf in isfahan-Iran in 2008
<cyphermox> Hi RoozbehShafiee
<jared> RoozbehShafiee: thanks for that, one of the questions I have is that the wiki page seems to mention a lot of activity around 2008-2010, has there been much involvement since then you can point to?
<belkinsa> I have the same one to and do you have anyone from your teams that can cheer for you here?
<RoozbehShafiee> jared: since 2010 I got a good jobs in linux administration field
<RoozbehShafiee> job *
<RoozbehShafiee> belkinsa: yes
<RoozbehShafiee> belkinsa: one of ubuntu members danialbehzadi is here
<belkinsa> Okay. danialbehzadi do you have anything to add about him?
<danialbehzadi> Hey all,
<danialbehzadi> I am Danial Behzadi, Ubuntu member from Iran. i can confirm that RoozbehShafiee is active in Persian community of Ubuntu during all these years
<cyphermox> RoozbehShafiee: could you tell us a bit about the requirements for joining the Ubuntu Iran LoCo team?
<RoozbehShafiee> jared: recently we had ubuntu party in May 2014 in tehran but I forgot mention this activity in my wiki page
<belkinsa> RoozbehShafiee, make sure you add that in.
<RoozbehShafiee> belkinsa: ok I'll add it :)
<RoozbehShafiee> cyphermox: yes
<rickspencer3> I am happy that RoozbehShafiee has applied for Ubuntu Membership, is it time to vote?
<RoozbehShafiee> cyphermox: one day Mehdi Hassanpour. the Iran loco team coordinator contact me by email
<RoozbehShafiee> cyphermox: and he wanted to me about joining to iran loco team because of my activities in ubuntu.ir forums
<RoozbehShafiee> cyphermox: and I accepted his request
<cyphermox> great
<rickspencer3> ?
<belkinsa> Are we ready to vote?
<cyphermox> I think we're ready to vote
<jared> #vote RoozbehShafiee for Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: RoozbehShafiee for Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<belkinsa> +0 for needing more documentation/testimonials
<meetingology> +0 for needing more documentation/testimonials received from belkinsa
<rickspencer3> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from rickspencer3
<popey> +0 I'd like to see more evidence of recent sustained contributions
<meetingology> +0 I'd like to see more evidence of recent sustained contributions received from popey
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<Pendulum> +0 Please come back with more testimonials about your recent work :)
<meetingology> +0 Please come back with more testimonials about your recent work :) received from Pendulum
<jared> +0 I think it's possible you have some good work in there it's just not well documented for us to see
<meetingology> +0 I think it's possible you have some good work in there it's just not well documented for us to see received from jared
<jared> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: RoozbehShafiee for Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Votes for:2 Votes against:0 Abstentions:4
<meetingology> Motion carried
<jared> Unfortunately I didn't prime the bot
<jared> #votesrequired 4
<meetingology> votes now need 4 to be passed
<popey> So 2x+1, 4x+0, that's a +0 effectively, right?
<RoozbehShafiee> yes
<jared> RoozbehShafiee: what that means is we feel it's possible you might meet the criteria but we can't see it clearly enough now to be sure. If you're willing to wait around after the meeting we can go through some information on how to prepare the application a little better
<popey> RoozbehShafiee: I'd love to see you come back in a couple of months with a wiki page fleshed out with more contributions and testimonials. Keep up the good work!
<belkinsa> +1
<RoozbehShafiee> popey: OK :)
<Destine> +0
<RoozbehShafiee> popey: no problem ;)
<RoozbehShafiee> danialbehzadi: thank you buddy :)
<danialbehzadi> RoozbehShafiee: you're welcome (:
<RoozbehShafiee> danialbehzadi: see you in today meeting in the 78cafe :)
<jared> So for the sake of time we'll move to the next applicant, however RoozbehShafiee if you're wanting some help we'lll defintely hang around after the meeting if you like
<RoozbehShafiee> jared: yes of cource
<jared> #subtopic Tribaal
<Tribaal> Hi everyone!
<jared> Hello Tribaal, can you please introduce yourself to the board
<RoozbehShafiee> jared: we have Iran ubuntu loco team meeting. but after that we can talk about it :)
<Tribaal> So my name is Chris "Tribaal" Glass, I'm an Ubuntu user since breezy.
<Tribaal> I'm French, but I was born and raised in Switzerland - and recently moved to Tanzania
<Tribaal> I'm a software engineer, passionate about "cloud" technologies and distributed systems
<Tribaal> I currently work for Canonical in the Landscape team, and do quite some openstack work (although not direct contributions yet)
<popey> "While I am a Canonical employee this is my own initiative, and is neither required nor sanctionned by my employer. I feel that I belong as a member of the community in my own right"  â I like this
<Tribaal> I did a few contributions along the years, especially as part of LoCos and forums in the beginning, then to code and packages more recently
<Tribaal> popey: thanks, I would be the second Ubuntu member in my team (of 13), it's not a requirement at all
<Tribaal> I just felt it was a natural step to take for me at this point
<Tribaal> I will also apply for upload rights in the future, but that is a separate process :)
<cyphermox> great :)
<Tribaal> One particular highlight of my "contributions"
<jared> Tribaal: thanks for the well prepared application, one question. I clicked through to find out about the Tanzanian LoCo but couldn't find much. Is there a wiki page or website?
<Tribaal> that is dear to me
<Tribaal> jared: oh, not at the moment unfortunately - I took over really recently (last week), because I discovered a basically dead LoCo on arrival in Tanzania
<jared> Tribaal: ah fair enough. Just curiosity really.
<Tribaal> jared: I really hope to revive the LoCo, the number of Users in Tanzania is quite high
<belkinsa> +1
<popey> How long have you worked at Canonical? Did you work on Ubuntu before that?
<Tribaal> popey: I work for Canonical since... Jan 2012
<Tribaal> popey: most of my contributions to Ubuntu before that were "soft" (LoCos, forums, install parties)
<rickspencer3> I wouldn't underestimate the value of those contributions
<popey> Yeah, that's some of the most valuable. Especially in your own time.
<Tribaal> popey: but many of my contributions since then were not motivated by my work
<Destine> +1
<Tribaal> indeed
<Tribaal> I'm not minizing the importance of community at all :)
<popey> I have no more questions.
<jared> So anymore questions from the other board members or shall we vote?
 * belkinsa is ready to vote
<jared> #vote Tribaal for Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: Tribaal for Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<ogra_> rickspencer3, prob with them is that they are harder to measure ;)
<belkinsa> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from belkinsa
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<rickspencer3> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from rickspencer3
<jared> ogra_: that's why testimonials and photos are good for that :)
<ogra_> yep
<popey> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from popey
<Pendulum> +1 keep up with the good work :)
<meetingology> +1 keep up with the good work :) received from Pendulum
<jared> +1 Good evidence to show active involvement both contributor and loco wise
<meetingology> +1 Good evidence to show active involvement both contributor and loco wise received from jared
<Tribaal> \o/
<jared> I know Destine voted before so I'll close it, I believe their connection is a little rusty at the moment
<jared> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Tribaal for Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<popey> \o/
<Tribaal> Yay!
<ogra_> congrats
<popey> Congratulations Tribaal
<belkinsa> Tribaal, welcome to the Ubuntu Members!
<Tribaal> thanks all
<belkinsa> Congratz.
<jared> Well done Tribaal, good to see varied and ongoing efforts
<Tribaal> nice! Thanks a lot!
<Tribaal> I'll try to do even more - especially in Tanzania
<belkinsa> Not a problem.
<jared> Alright, we'lll move on to the last applicant
<jared> #subtopic filipsohajek
<filipsohajek> Hi, I give it up, i don't have enough contributions, and i'm not prepared for it. Thanks
<belkinsa> ...
<Tribaal> oh
<belkinsa> I will speak to him if possible.
<jared> Hm, well if anyone knows filipsohojek please let them know we're here to help if they have any questions
<belkinsa> And that too.
<rickspencer3> :(
<rickspencer3> would have been nice to have provided some encouragement
<Tribaal> yeah... but he quit so fast :(
<jared> Ok, well that being said I'll end the meeting unless anyone else has any other business?
<jared> RoozbehShafiee: we end the meeting for the logs but we're happy to discuss still, just so you don't think we're going to ignore you
<silverlion> o/
<jared> silverlion: how can we help
<silverlion> jared : I am sorry, I was told to be here in this meeting of the ubuntu community
 * silverlion feels bad to be late 
<silverlion> but traffic is to blame
<cyphermox> silverlion: are you here to cheer for someone?
<silverlion> cyphermox : no belkinsa told me to be here today ... just got approved by the mailing list
<silverlion> never mind I'll catch with her later
<silverlion> disregard my disturbance.
<belkinsa> silverlion, you are already a member and you don't need to do anything else.
<popey> â»
<popey> Welcome anyway â»
<belkinsa> anything else more for it*
<cyphermox> if you got approved, the best we can do is probably just congratulate you and apologize we couldn't do it "in person" last time :)
<jared> silverlion: no disturbance at all, well timed to be honest
<silverlion> jared beg your pardon?
<jared> silverlion: I was just saying you weren't disturbing, it was a well timed entrance as we'd just finished the applications for this meeting
<silverlion> jared a ok, now i understood
<jared> Cool
<jared> Well it appears there isn't any other business?
<belkinsa> I think we need to help RoozbehShafiee still.
<jared> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Aug 20 12:53:15 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-08-20-11.58.moin.txt
<jared> belkinsa: yep, we can do so after the meeting now :)
<jared> RoozbehShafiee: if you're still around we can give further feedback?
<belkinsa> Oh, the meeting was still running?
 * belkinsa faceplams
<jared> belkinsa: no worries, just don't like to cut people off in case there was somethign I wasn't aware of
<belkinsa> Right.
<popey> thanks everyone â»
<Tribaal> thanks
<silverlion> thx
<Tribaal> so... from a practical standpoint, to I now get mail to tribaal@ubuntu.com forwarded automagically?
<Tribaal> (sorry if its' not the place to ask)
<jared> Tribaal: it works automagically to your primary LP address :)
<Tribaal> jared: cool :) thanks
<belkinsa> Tribaal, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuEmail
<jared> Tribaal: it can take a little while to populate, but yeah, the wiki page should explain all
<silverlion> jared : what if I want to change my primary email on LP?
<belkinsa> And you ask for your shinny cloak in #ubuntu-irc
<Tribaal> oh, I could have found that information by searching - sorry
<jared> silverlion: I believe it would automatically change over to the new one, just with the little delay
<silverlion> jared : thankx
<jared> The wiki indicates the script runs every 48 hours so it should be no more than that
<belkinsa> RoozbehShafiee, are you still here?  And are we ready to help him?
<jared> I think they're off to a LoCo meeting, but may be back later
<belkinsa> Oh, I se.e
<jared> RoozbehShafiee: if you do come back and none of the board is here to help feel free to drop us an email - ubuntu-membership-boards@lists.ubuntu.com - and we can still help out
<tinoco> back
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-08-21
<cprofitt> hello coolbhavi
<coolbhavi> hello cprofitt
<dholbach> hiya
<coolbhavi> hey dholbach
<YokoZar> Hey folks
<cprofitt> hello YokoZar
<coolbhavi> now is the LC catchup right?
<cprofitt> I believe so.
<elfy> hi everyone
<dholbach> do we have anyone else from the CC and LC here?
<dholbach> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Aug 21 17:03:06 2014 UTC.  The chair is dholbach. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<skellat> o.
<skellat> o/
<dholbach> #chair YokoZar cprofitt elfy
<meetingology> Current chairs: YokoZar cprofitt dholbach elfy
<mhall119> o/
<dholbach> #chair mhall119
<meetingology> Current chairs: YokoZar cprofitt dholbach elfy mhall119
<dholbach> #topic Catching up with the LoCo Council
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Catching up with the LoCo Council
<dholbach> hey coolbhavi, skellat - how are you doing?
<dholbach> thanks for coming
<skellat> Getting ready for a music festival this weekend that I will be conduct religious services at.
<skellat> Been a weird week, I haven't had to write a sermon for a while...
<coolbhavi> dholbach, fine just been busy switching between hospital n work
<mhall119> jose: costales: you guys around for the meeting?
<dholbach> how has this last cycle been for you on the LC? did you feel it was busy times?
<coolbhavi> dholbach, sort of. we had a couple of teething issues too regarding locos
<dholbach> and you've been helping them out getting started?
<skellat> The Catalan issue ground things to a halt for far too long though.
<skellat> We've gotten things back up and running, though.
<mhall119> skellat: coolbhavi: I sent an email to the LC on 8/14 about that, did it go through?
<coolbhavi> skellat, +1
<elfy> you aren't the only people who thought it went on for too long ;)
<skellat> mhall119: Yes Michael, we've got.  I don't think it has been executed yet as the six of us have been madly off in all directions with either UbuConLA participation for the majority or my getting ready to produce the show this weekend with the rest of the Music Along The River 2014 board.
<cprofitt> skellat there are issues that arise on occassion which take care to deal with.
<elfy> +1 cprofitt
<dholbach> do many teams reach out to you for help in one way or another?
<czajkowski> Apologies for being late
<skellat> The Greeks have, we tried to help the Moroccans with their customs issues, we had that request for a take-over of Nebraska to get things rebooted
<dholbach> #chair czajkowski
<meetingology> Current chairs: YokoZar cprofitt czajkowski dholbach elfy mhall119
<dholbach> brilliant... I just wanted to get a feeling for how much people know that you're there to support them
<skellat> A member of a Membership Board referred a new leader for Oregon to me to talk to about taking over out there in lieu of Mr. Kerensa and he did ask for assistance which we've tried to provide
<cprofitt> what assistance do you offer teams looking to become verified?
<skellat> First: Don't Panic!
<skellat> Second: Tell us your story.  We want to know where you are going and what you want to be doing.
<YokoZar> Sometimes I've seen locos come up with some neat stuff (eg their own versions of printed stickers) -- generally things that are useful for locos to give/use at events.  Is there a resource where such "locally made" type stuff could be easily pooled?
<YokoZar> (and edited, presumably, like a banner for a demo table)
<skellat> coolbhavi: Could you take over?  Oregon leader needs help over in #ubuntu-locoteams and I need to assist him.
<coolbhavi> sure skellat
<coolbhavi> YokoZar, right now I havent heard of such stuff
<elfy> but possibly a useful thing to have ?
<coolbhavi> perhaps we can have the locos uploading the artwork on their wiki page and pool them across maybe
<czajkowski> well in the past we've encouraged people to upload to spread ubuntu
<czajkowski> one resouce for all to see and use
<dholbach> yeah
<czajkowski> *resource
<dholbach> maybe it just needs to be mentioned here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamKnowledgeBase
<czajkowski> http://spreadubuntu.org/
<czajkowski> dholbach: +1
<coolbhavi> ah thanks czajkowski
<cprofitt> I like spreadubuntu.org good site
<cprofitt> very good pool of ideas and resources for loco teams
<cprofitt> +1 czajkowski
 * elfy forgot about spreadbuntu
 * coolbhavi too has forgotten 
<dholbach> have any of the LC folks been involved in any Global Jam activities already?
<czajkowski> so maybe this would be good to metion on loco contacts lists and on your blog
<czajkowski> to highlight the resouce for all ?
<dholbach> we are going to have two hangouts on the 27th to talk a bit about how to organise events, etc
<coolbhavi> czajkowski, sure will do that over the weekend
<dholbach> it'd be nice if we had some participation from the LC (or from some LoCos)
<skellat> dholbach: No, not yet to my knowledge.  We've been mainly reacting to CCT scheduling things at times where it has been unlikely a majority of us could/would show up.
<PabloRubianes> sorry i'm late
<skellat> 2/3 of the Council is based in Eastern Time
<dholbach> skellat, I don't think we always need ALL folks to be there
<dholbach> if one or two can make it, that's better than nobody :-)
<skellat> So a 1000 UTC meeting has 4 out of 6 LoCo Council members having to be awake and focused at 6 AM
<dholbach> we have one hangout on 10 another one at 19 UTC
<skellat> coolbhavi: How does 1000 UTC sound for you?  Good timing or bad?
<mhall119> skellat: that's why we have two
<coolbhavi> dholbach, I'll make it I think for the 10 UTC as m working from home now :)
<dholbach> so yeah... I just thought I'd mention it as Global Jam is always a nice opportunity to have LoCo activities happen around the world :)
<dholbach> coolbhavi, ah, nice
<mhall119> skellat: can those 4 who can't make 1000 UTC make 1900 UTC?
<mhall119> or even just one of those 4?
<skellat> Probably
<PabloRubianes> on weekdays I cant
<PabloRubianes> :(
<mhall119> I did send the LC an email about this as well, yesterday
<skellat> That would put it at 3 PM for me, jose, PabloRubianes, and SergioMeneses
<skellat> I'm on furlough from work so I can probably be there
<dholbach> well, no worries - maybe we can some folks on, and maybe some folks from other LoCos
<dholbach> are there any things you can think of we can do to get more activity at the Global Jam?
<mhall119> skellat: coolbhavi: how is communication going among the LC members, are you able to have all or a majority of people meet regularly to discuss and resolve issues?
<dholbach> ... or another event we could do?
<coolbhavi> mhall119, yes mostly
<mhall119> coolbhavi: how regularly?
<PabloRubianes> mhall119: we use email and trello
<PabloRubianes> to combat timezones
<mhall119> PabloRubianes: I was wondering about realtime discussions
<mhall119> as email stretches things out considerably
<coolbhavi> mhall119, once a month on IRC
<mhall119> coolbhavi: and is attendence at those generally pretty good?
<coolbhavi> mhall119, I guess so because most times it will be 2 AM my time and if I can I'll attend orelse vote over email or chat on topics if not possible
<PabloRubianes> is really had to be the all 6 in the same time
<PabloRubianes> that's a reallity
 * skellat notes we should have had a meeting Tuesday but didn't
<dholbach> do you still have many plans for the next months?
<elfy> PabloRubianes: indeed it is - not much can be done about that, as long as inter team comms are open that's the best lots of teams can hope
<PabloRubianes> elfy: yes
<PabloRubianes> dholbach: we just finish the most important issue we had
<coolbhavi> dholbach, yes primarily the loco policy should be made to fit most cases coming in which is on priority now
<PabloRubianes> and now we need to roll the information
<skellat> dholbach: We've got expirations on verified status coming up through the end of October and then none until late in January
<PabloRubianes> about the subteams
<mhall119> coolbhavi: PabloRubianes: have you tried to move the meeting time to get more regular attendees?
<dholbach> ok
<PabloRubianes> and we had the expectation to have a online loco summit but we need to figurate dates and topics
<PabloRubianes> mhall119: yes we had some meetings on saturday
<mhall119> PabloRubianes: Ubuntu Online Summit is Nov. 12-14, can you use that?
<PabloRubianes> mhall119: no, as we are not available in weekdays
<dholbach> nice idea - what's going to happen at the loco summit?
<coolbhavi> mhall119, we have to figure out a optimal time yet as its very hard and we had some meets over weekend as PabloRubianes said
<PabloRubianes> we think to have a one day event on a saturday
<PabloRubianes> mhall119: the thing about meetings is sometimes for me is 10am and for coolbhavi is 11pm
<mhall119> PabloRubianes: I understand the difficulty, we deal it that constantly in Canonical :)
<skellat> mhall119: UOS falls after the start of the fiscal year at work so I may or may not be recalled to active status.  Since I only get 5 days or less notice to report for duty, I can't even commit right now due to some factors well outside my control.
<dholbach> what's the idea behind the summit?
<PabloRubianes> dholbach: mainly loco related topic sharing
<PabloRubianes> good ideas that can be replicated
<dholbach> very very nice
<coolbhavi> dholbach, loco summit in our view is to have a hangout or IRC meet on loco related stuff PabloRubianes :) +1
<mhall119> PabloRubianes: would you like to use summit.ubuntu.com for this? I'm happy to set it up for you
<dholbach> brilliant
<dholbach> I think we need more activities like that :)
<PabloRubianes> mhall119: sure
<mhall119> PabloRubianes: once a date is picked give me a ping
<dholbach> is there anything else the CC could help you with?
<PabloRubianes> sure, thanks
<PabloRubianes> dholbach: some locos are stuck with lack of activity
<PabloRubianes> maybe share good ideas could help
<coolbhavi> dholbach, and lack of response too
<dholbach> PabloRubianes, yes, definitely - if we can do more to enable LoCos (newcomer LoCos or newcomer people or old ones) to do more, then that's great
<mhall119> PabloRubianes: is the LC also sharing ideas with those teams?
 * coolbhavi remembers the d-a-t reachout problem
<mhall119> PabloRubianes: the UGJ workshops are designed to do just that, help teams think of activities and organize an event for doing them
<dholbach> maybe we should have a chat some time soon to figure out what we in the CC/LC/Community team/other interested folks can do to unblock/reenergise those teams
<dholbach> (and yeah, we'll find a way or time to do it ;-))
<PabloRubianes> dholbach: I would love to
<skellat> mhall119: Reaching out to contacts may eventually become an issue as loco-contacts and the actual contacts themselves don't overlap as much as they should
<mhall119> +1
<dholbach> rock on! :-D
<PabloRubianes> and the rest of the loco council too
<coolbhavi> +1
<mhall119> skellat: loco-contacts has always been less-than-useful for reliable communication with teams
<PabloRubianes> mhall119: dholbach also I think we should reach the ubuntu translators
<dholbach> great idea
<mhall119> if we can find a better alternative, I'm all for it
<dholbach> we should make a shopping list of all those good ideas some time soon :-)
<PabloRubianes> as much of the info/ideas got lost for non-english speakers
<mhall119> on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Jams/
<skellat> mhall119: jose had a few ideas, I'll have to get them from him at some point
<mhall119> skellat: if it's something people can do for a Jam, please have him add it to the appropriate sub-pages of the one above
<dholbach> all right... anything else? IIRC we're still supposed to meet up with the TB :)
<cprofitt> I am good.
<skellat> I don't think so.  I have dirty dishes in the sink to go take care of...
<cprofitt> is anyone from the TB here?
<cprofitt> thanks skellat
<PabloRubianes> thanks for having us here
<czajkowski> thanks for coming folks
<elfy> good to see you all PabloRubianes :)
<coolbhavi> Nothing from my side too thanks all!
<cprofitt> PabloRubianes and coolbhavi and all the LC
<mhall119> thanks skellat coolbhavi PabloRubianes
<dholbach> yeah, thanks a lot!
<dholbach> keep those LoCos happy and active and let's chat some time soon again :)
<coolbhavi> thanks :)
<dholbach> #topic Catching up with the Technical Board
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Catching up with the Technical Board
<mhall119> and please let us know if there's any issue finishing that sub-teams issue
<coolbhavi> mhall119, sure we will keep you guys posted
<mhall119> who's around from the TB?
<mhall119> thanks coolbhavi
<slangasek> mhall119: hi
<mhall119> howdy slangasek
<slangasek> possibly I'm the only one :)
<elfy> hi slangasek
 * mhall119 just poked a couple others
<cprofitt> hello slangasek
<slangasek> mhall119: I believe all the others are EOD / vac / conference
<slangasek> well, + infinity
<dholbach> how was the last cycle for the TB? have things been busy? was it a lot of the usual TB tasks?
<mhall119> slangasek: we let them EOD?
<slangasek> mhall119: German employment laws...
<mhall119> darn those hippies
<slangasek> dholbach: I've only been on the TB since the last election, so I'm not sure I have the perspective to say whether it's been "the usual"
<slangasek> it seems reasonably low-key to me
 * dholbach is German as well :)
<slangasek> mostly there's been a focus on questions of exceptions to our update policies
<mhall119> slangasek: you mean package updated in the archives?
<slangasek> in SRUs, yes
<dholbach> exceptions to regular SRUs or did this have to do with any activities of people working on the phone?
<mhall119> I recall there being some discussion about how the phone work may have changed that
<slangasek> well, the phone work hasn't really impacted the Ubuntu archive update policies, certainly not to the level of TB involvement
<slangasek> some of you know that the upcoming "RTM" milestone for the Canonical product launch is being done in a derived archive
<mhall119> slangasek: yup, has that spit happened now?
<dholbach> ok... as I'm not on the TB mailing list, I wasn't quite sure how much of it was discussed there
<dholbach> mhall119, split?
<slangasek> which deliberately decouples it from the rest of Ubuntu development in a way that minimizes risks to the rest of the Ubuntu community, while avoiding some of the worst aspects of divergence that we've had in the past with Canonical commercial projects
<mhall119> dholbach: well, copy from the Ubuntu archives to this derivative
<slangasek> mhall119: the ubuntu-rtm archive branch is in place, and I believe that with today's just-promoted image, the last bulk package copy will be happening shortly
<dholbach> mhall119, you said "spit" which confused me a bit :)
<mhall119> poor word choice, sorry
<mhall119> slangasek: so the phone delivery stuff is safely separated from the normal Ubuntu distro development now, right?
<slangasek> yes
<slangasek> the packages are supposed to be landed in utopic before going into ubuntu-rtm, by policy, so that may mean some feature-freeze exceptions anyway... but it's mostly in package corners that don't affect other flavors
<czajkowski> slangasek: will the desktop at some point get any benefit from this phone development ?
<dholbach> sounds like a lot of the development processes run like a well-oiled machine where even the introduction of a new Ubuntu product doesn't cause hiccups
<slangasek> well, I'm not sure how to answer that question
<slangasek> eventually the goal is to have unity8+mir on the desktop
<mhall119> czajkowski: it's already had some, by virtue of us making the core stuff more efficient
<slangasek> mhall119: good point
<YokoZar> I'd like to ask about click packages.  Specifically it seems like there are good chunks of the archive (universe in particular) that could be converted downward to click packages.
<mhall119> and also click and app confinement, how much of that is going to require TB decisions and how much has already been discussed?
<YokoZar>   I'm curious about the community implications of that -- we might be alienating some ubuntu packager (or debian one), but on the other hand we would be more directly involving upstream (if we could get them to use the click packages)
<dholbach> some bits are the same already, like the indicators, but it'll take a bit longer to move the other core bits to the desktop
<slangasek> YokoZar: there are no plans to move universe to click packages; apt is with us for the long hall
<mhall119> YokoZar: I don't know of anybody who's packaged an app for dpkg that isn't thrilled to have click as an option :)
<dholbach> haha
<slangasek> I wonder, am I answering these questions with a TB hat on, or a Canonical manager hat :)
<YokoZar> slangasek: I don't mean all of universe, I mean specific subparts that aren't being well served by apt.  A good example are online games that stop working after updates and have to wait for SRUs
<dholbach> YokoZar, I could imagine that it will be important how this is presented to the user
<mhall119> YokoZar: I'm not sure what the community implications would be here though, what are you thinking about?
<slangasek> mhall119: I'm not expecting much TB discussions about click and app confinement - the Ubuntu Security Team know what they're doing, what do they need us looking over their shoulder for? :)
<mhall119> slangasek: how about things like app lifecycle management or image-based updates?
<YokoZar> mhall119:  Well, suppose we have a maintainer of that game package in Ubuntu that would probably be better as a click package.  We need to reach out and migrate it, but that might feel like a "demotion" of sorts if we do it wrong.
<mhall119> YokoZar: maybe, but I think it'll be the opposite really
<slangasek> YokoZar: so, blacklisting packages from universe doesn't scale very well; I don't think we're going to be removing a lot of packages that we got from Debian, but maybe there are some Ubuntu-specific packages that can be moved to click
<mhall119> click packages are easier to make, easier to maintain, and easier to put intothe store
<slangasek> mhall119: app lifecycle management doesn't seem like something that needs our input.  system-image has broad implications, and sabdfl asked for TB feedback on it which I'm afraid hasn't happened yet
<YokoZar> They can also come more directly from upstreams
<dholbach> YokoZar, the click app and the package are also going to store data in different locations, we will have to see how things are going to look in the dash when things get launched, etc - there are a lot of unanswered questions
<YokoZar> Which might be different people ;)
<slangasek> mostly because the technology is so raw in terms of what can be done on the desktop that it's hard to form an opinion
<mhall119> slangasek: ok
<mhall119> so it sounds like things have been pretty quiet for the TB lately
<slangasek> I'd say so
<mhall119> any blockers, issue or anything that the CC can help with?
<slangasek> not that I'm aware of
<mhall119> does anybody else have any questions for slangasek ?
<YokoZar> So Ubuntu SDK == supported by Canonical
<dholbach> I'm also done with questions and need to head off to dinner in a bit :)
<YokoZar> I'm wondering if we might reach a point where people want something in the SDK cause it would be useful but it might not be a canonical thing
<dholbach> YokoZar, could you elaborate on that question?
<slangasek> see?  these Germans, just because the sun's down they think they should stop working
<dholbach> slangasek, I'm thinking of dinner
<dholbach> :-P
<slangasek> :-)
<YokoZar> Basically I'm wondering how our community will scale to some of the "not official but popular" tooling that's built up around, say, Android
<dholbach> YokoZar, right now, if you're an app developer and something is not present on the image, you can bundle it
<dholbach> but I expect more and more discussions coming up on the phone mailing list
<YokoZar> dholbach: Right, so I imagine a future where a lot of things are bundling the same thing, and we then want to have some sort of process for promoting it to officialness, and I'm wondering if that can happen only if Canonical says so
<YokoZar> (and supports)
<slangasek> YokoZar: I would prefer not to try to adjudicate a future hypothetical conflict between Canonical and the community over curation of the Ubuntu SDK
<mhall119> YokoZar: ultimately the SDK packages are like any other, you work with the owners of them if you want to add something
<YokoZar> It is only hypothetical at this point, it's true.  I just wanted to make sure I understand how things are at this point
<mhall119> the SDK team in Canonical has been very open to community feedback and contributions
<YokoZar> mhall119: Which implies supportness and main, perhaps as it should be
<slangasek> If there are strong technical arguments why something should be added to the Ubuntu SDK over Canonical's objections, then I'm sure the TB will listen; but the standard would need to be fairly high for something like that, given the by-definition nature of what the Ubuntu SDK is meant to be
<YokoZar> Thanks :)
<dholbach> all right... I need to head out - thanks slangasek and everyone else - see you tomorrow :)
 * slangasek waves to dholbach 
<elfy> cya dholbach
<mhall119> dang, left before I could say goodbye, hippy
<mhall119> alright, anything else before we end this?
<elfy> not from me
<mhall119> ok, thanks for coming by and representing the TB slangasek
<slangasek> my pleasure
<mhall119> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Aug 21 18:11:27 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-08-21-17.03.moin.txt
<elfy> thanks all
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-08-17
<jdstrand> hi!
<mdeslaur> \o
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Aug 17 16:45:25 2015 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I'm working on tooling around the Built-Using field in Packages files so we can get good reporting for things like static golang builds. that will support an interim process for golang packages in main until the shared lib support for archive builds is finished
<jdstrand> I'll be working on defining that interim process too
<jdstrand> in addition, I'm participating in various MIR conversations/follow-ups
<jdstrand> I've got design/doc reviews I need to get through
<jdstrand> and an embargoed issue
<jdstrand> that's it from me. mdeslaur, you're up (note sb eattie is out)
<mdeslaur> I'm on community this week, and triage too today and friday
<mdeslaur> I have patch piloting tomorrow
<mdeslaur> I'm currently publishing net-snmp CVEs
<mdeslaur> and have an embargoed issue to work on to publish this week
<mdeslaur> I have a trip report to write
<mdeslaur> and after that, I'll continue going down the cve list
<mdeslaur> that's it from me
<mdeslaur> uh
<mdeslaur> sarnold: you're up
<sarnold> I'm in happy place this week; I'm travelling to linux plumbers for much of the week. I have some packages that I started working on for community last week to finish up today, an embargoed issue that needs some more discussion with the team, and start in on the juju MIR
<sarnold> that's it for me, jjohansen?
<jdstrand> I haven't seen jj this morning, let's move on to chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> This week, I'll be getting thunderbird 38.2.0 out
<chrisccoulson> Other than that, I'll be working on Oxide bugs as best as I can without an internet connection
<chrisccoulson> I think that's me done
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/djbdns.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libjboss-cache1-java.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libnids.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ircd-hybrid.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/dwarfutils.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sarnold, chrisccoulson: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Aug 17 17:09:19 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-08-17-16.45.moin.txt
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand
<sarnold> thanks jdstrand!
<sil2100> Hello o/
<bdmurray> Hi, there are couple of conferences going on this week so I'm not certain how many dmb members will be available.
<cyphermox> I'm there
<bdmurray> there where?
<cyphermox> well, at debconf, but also here.
<sil2100> I was worried that there might not be enough DMB members around, since I supposed people will be socializing on debconf
<cyphermox> looks not too bad right now
<cyphermox> looks like sil2100's application is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LukaszZemczak/CoreDeveloperApplication
<micahg_work> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> cyphermox, infinity, Laney, micahg, xnox, bdmurray, stgraber: DMB ping
<sil2100> Yes, I hope I wrote there everything that's needed
<sil2100> ogra_ also was supposed to endorse me there, but he's really busy and didn't have enough time to do that yet
 * xnox is here now.
<xnox> we need 4 for quorum, no?
<xnox> and we have 3?!
<bdmurray> o/
<sil2100> I think there's 4 actually!
 * micahg_work is here
<xnox> ah cool
<xnox> who is chairing?
 * xnox it looks
<micahg_work> xnox, you are according to the wiki :)
<xnox> #startmeeting DMB
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Aug 17 19:15:35 2015 UTC.  The chair is xnox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic:
<xnox> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> cyphermox, infinity, Laney, micahg, xnox, bdmurray, stgraber: DMB ping
<xnox> roll-call bdmurray cyphermox xnox micahg_work are present
<xnox> #topic previous actions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: previous actions
<xnox> bdmurray: micahg_work: there are previous actions on the agenda
<xnox> all done, or not so much?
<micahg_work> not so much :(
 * xnox doesn't see Unit193 around
<micahg_work> mozc was in the packageset
<xnox> ack.
<bdmurray> I setup a bzr branch although its not clear if that is sufficient or not.
<xnox> ok.
<xnox> i don't see Unit193
<xnox> so i guess, move to sil2100 application
<bdmurray> I believe micahg_work pinged Unit193
<xnox> well, we can keep that item on the agenda for the time being, i guess.
<xnox> #topic Core Developer Application Åukasz Zemczak sil2100
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: Core Developer Application Åukasz Zemczak sil2100
<xnox> sil2100: hola! please introduce yourself and your application =)
<sil2100> Hello dear DMB!
<xnox> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LukaszZemczak/CoreDeveloperApplication
<sil2100> My name is Åukasz Zemczak, I'm a MOTU that would like to advance to a CoreDev
<xnox> And i see you have been motu for over a year now.
<sil2100> Most of the time I'm dealing with touch packages, operating the CI Train, managing the touch seeds, managing image builds and channels, acting as one of the release managers of the touch stack
<sil2100> I also have some experience with non-touch through patch pilot sessions
<sil2100> I do them rarely, but I try to spend at least a few hours every now and then
<sil2100> In the past it was more frequent, but after we got the few official ubuntu touch phones on the market I didn't have as much free cycles
<sil2100> Becoming a CoreDev will also help me in my patch pilot duties, as there's more main packages on the sponsoring queue than universe usually ;)
<xnox> sil2100: ok. looking at your set of packages you work on, e.g. uploaded / synchronised list, they seem to be mostly universe things.
<xnox> sil2100: which main packages did you modify to date, and proud off, that got sponsored into ubuntu?
<sil2100> hmm, that's a hard one, my memory is not so good, would have to think about that for a bit
 * xnox looks through your history.
<sil2100> There weren't so many of those, I usually tried working in the fields where I can do the most, so universe - I helped out in some main transitions, but nothing that super specific
<sil2100> There were a few during the libav11 transiiton too... there was also the upower transtion we did, but not sure if that counts as it was in the infameous ubuntu-rtm distro
<xnox> ok, from renet there is https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thumbnailer/1.2+14.10.20140901.is.1.2+14.10.20140814-0ubuntu1 in main
<xnox> it FTBFS across the board
<xnox> click in utopic built https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/click/0.4.31.2.is.0.4.30
<xnox> revert https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-scopes-shell/0.5.4+14.10.20140820.is.0.5.3+14.10.20140806-0ubuntu1
<xnox> in universe
<sil2100> Yeah, the reverts are automatic creations from the CI Train tool
<xnox> sil2100: patch piloting can be done without upload rights -> cause most of things in the queue need review, comments, test building and +1. That would make it easier for those with upload rights, to quickly upload those things.
<sil2100> All those funny ones with versioning of version.is.version - I don't remember what happened with that one, but it was probably one attempt in a crisis and trying to revert a really broken package
<cyphermox> there's some older stuff in -changes emails I can see as qtbase-opensource-src/5.0.2+dfsg1-7ubuntu18
<sil2100> xnox: yes, I know as other MOTUs do that as well, but I always thought that I'll be of more use if I decrease the queue itself by doing uploads
<sil2100> If there were no urgent universe packages in the queue, I was moving to main ones, but that wasn't too frequent from my side
<cyphermox> sil2100: so, how would you say the CI Train work of reviewing others' package prepare you for having permission to upload any package in the Ubuntu archive?
<cyphermox> I think since this is a particularly unusual situation in where you don't necessarily get to upload many things yourself because it goes through CI Train, but you do see a whole lot of stuff and people go to you for help
<xnox> sil2100: from what i can see, there aren't many things in main that you have been working on. and most of your work is based on reviews & landing other peoples code. I wouldn't feel confident granting main upload rights for all packages, without much evidence of working on main packages.
<cyphermox> I'm not sure what precedent we may or may not want to make, but I think it probably warrants discussion.
<sil2100> It gives me an overall idea of possible packaging issues and problems that inexperienced developers were having
<sil2100> We're using the CI Train for main packages most of the time, so most of the main uploads I do I drive them through the CI Train
<xnox> sil2100: can you list some reasons for a package to FTBFS?
<sil2100> Every main upload needs to be ACKed by a core-dev, but before that happens I have to do a review of it
<bdmurray> Do you have examples of those reviews?
<cyphermox> sil2100: would you have examples of things that went particularly *not* well through the CI Train that you caught too late, or whatnot, that could have been handled differently?
<cyphermox> (or examples of outstanding work via...)
<sil2100> One of the most common reasons for a FTBFS of a new package is the lack of build-dependencies or invalid versions of such - another can be a change in the toolchain, or even an unnoticed ABI break in one of the dependent packages
<sil2100> Usually the last one is caught by symbol files in our packages
<xnox> sil2100: why did this package FTBFS? https://launchpadlibrarian.net/214593878/buildlog_ubuntu-wily-amd64.gunicorn_19.0-6ubuntu1_BUILDING.txt.gz
<sil2100> sbuild-build-depends-gunicorn-dummy : Depends: tox but it is not installable <- from the first look it seems that there's a dependency problem
<sil2100> But I would need to check what sbuild-build-depends-gunicorn-dummy is and what's the tux dep it has, and why it's not installable
<xnox> sil2100: what is sbuild-build-depends-gunicorn-dummy?
<xnox> sil2100: by the way, tox is installble in wily.
<sil2100> Sometimes when it's not super obvious on first glance, I run a chroot for the given system and try to install the build deps as the build machine does
<sil2100> Let me check
<xnox> i can do that, just did, tox is intallable.
<xnox> why would a tox be installable locally in a chroot, but wouldn't be installable in launchpad during a particular package build?
<xnox> by the way, which package is being built now?
<xnox> (now, as in, in the above changelog)
<sil2100> dpkg-deb: building package 'sbuild-build-depends-gunicorn-dummy'
<sil2100> And a package can be uninstallable with other packages, for instance
<sil2100> Because of a conflict
<xnox> true, but there is no conflict here, and apt would say about it.
<xnox> by the way package 'sbuild-build-depends-gunicorn-dummy' -> is not the one being built here.
<sil2100> The build log is in overall from the gunicorn
<sil2100> package
<xnox> ok.
<xnox> correct.
<sil2100> Checking the source if you don't mind
<xnox> yeah, you can look at anything =)
<xnox> and the build fails at: Install gunicorn build dependencies (apt-based resolver), stage of sbuild
<xnox> with failing to install tox.
<xnox> btw. sbuild-build-depends-gunicorn-dummy is what it says on the tin, a dummy package sbuild generates to install build dependencies of gunicorn. Kind of a hack, because one cannot do apt-get build-dep against an unpacked source package =(, `apt-get build-dep` only works against packages that are already built and published in the archive.
<xnox> sil2100: which component of the archive is gunicorn in?
<sil2100> Ok, this is something I did not know, ugh
<sil2100> It's a main component
<xnox> sil2100: ok. and which component is tox in?
<sil2100> Ah, universe! A main-mismatch!
<xnox> sil2100: how do i check components of packages from command line?
<sil2100> Interesting though, as usually in the past builds didn't fail because of that, I remember we had multiple cases where people had main packages depping on universe and we only caught it right before publishing
<sil2100> BUt that's probably because we built everything in PPAs
<sil2100> And those don't have the checkbox for checking this checked by default
<sil2100> xnox: I usually use rmadison for this
<sil2100> Although it tends to be slow nowadays
<xnox> sil2100: ok.
<xnox> sil2100: where would you check all "main-mismatch" in the archive?
<sil2100> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.txt <- there's this place here, but there's also e-mails sent on each new one
<xnox> sil2100: ok. and you know about graphical output for them as well, there is .svg about it
<xnox> sil2100: and there is also a separate one generated for -proposed
<sil2100> Yeah, all in the http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive place
<xnox> sil2100: i would recomend to check those out, and see if you can prepare uploads to resolve those, and or file MIR.
<xnox> sil2100: have you filed MIR before?
<micahg_work> is there a tool that you can use to see if all of the dependencies for a package are in main/restricted?
<sil2100> xnox: yes, a few ones I remember, most for touch packages of course...
<sil2100> micahg_work: check-mir :)
<xnox> ok. good.
<micahg_work> yep!
<xnox> sil2100: what is NBS? how to resolve them?
<sil2100> didrocks whipped me in the past for not using it
<sil2100> I remember that being Not Buildable from Source, but I need to think what it was about
<sil2100> *built
<xnox> good
<sil2100> I don't think I resolved any of those before though...
<xnox> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/nbs.html
<cyphermox> sil2100: did you help out with the gcc5 transition?
<sil2100> cyphermox: not too much... I was doing some work uploading/merging changes from the transition itself and helped out developers with packaging questions
<sil2100> But not as much as I would like
<cyphermox> it's fine, I'm just trying to figure things out
<sil2100> xnox: I suppose NBSes might be cases when certain packages depend on some binary packages that are no longer provided by source packages?
<sil2100> (a bit guessing here)
<xnox> sil2100: correct.
<sil2100> In that case I suppose those can be resolved by either adding transitional packages or, if a package got renamed, maybe adding a Provides and making those virtual?
<sil2100> (or for the case the same functionality is provided by a different package now)
<xnox> sil2100: no. usually what needs to be done, is those dependand package need to be rebuild to depend on new package names, and/or drop the dependencies.
<sil2100> Oh, yeah, the easy way, I think I went overboard with that idea
<DalekSec> xnox: Sorry I didn't get the pint (I'm Unit193)
<xnox> sil2100: e.g. maas-enlist-udeb needs to be rebuild to start depending on e.g. libcurl3-udeb.
<xnox> sil2100: my expectation from a core developer, to know about at least one thing at a proficient level: sbuild logs, components mismatches, NBS.
<xnox> sil2100: none of those things are typically encountered by universe / motu, developers as these things are either exclusive or have higher priority in main.
<sil2100> Maybe I could gain some points by my experience with dealin with -proposed migration update_excuses and update_output ;p?
<sil2100> *dealing
<xnox> sil2100: i would expect you to work on resolving NBS, filing/follwing up on MIR reports, and/or resolving components-missmatches by e.g. moving optional build-dependencies for test-suites only into adt tests.
<sil2100> I never resolved NBS as is, but I did similar work during the few transitions I was doing, as there were always a lot of rdeps to rebuild and change dependencies
<xnox> sil2100: yes, ultimately. things like nbs/components-missmatches end up entangling and keeping packages stuck in proposed migration.
<xnox> sil2100: and fixing proposed migration, especially during current gcc5 transition was what most core devs have been working on past few weeks.
<xnox> sil2100: i really think you should do get experience with those tools and reports, before i would vote +1 on your application.
<sil2100> Ok, I understand...
<xnox> do other people have more questions, or can we vote on the application?
<sil2100> I know it's bad I'm rather concentrated on touch packages
<xnox> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> cyphermox, infinity, Laney, micahg, xnox, bdmurray, stgraber: DMB ping
<xnox> are we ready to vote?
<sil2100> I did try to help out with some transitions for experience though, and also I got some experience with resolving packages being blocked in -proposed
 * bdmurray is still here
<xnox> sil2100: do more of that. keep notes, get those uploads sponsored and keep a list. If you can demostrate that to us, for example i would be in favor voting +1 on your application very soon (e.g. within 1-3 months, as you have enough things to demonstrate)
<xnox> sil2100: i am confident in the rest of your skills and general programming. it's the coredev specific things, that i see you as lacking deep experience in.
<sil2100> Ok :)
<sil2100> Thanks
<xnox> but today will be a -1 from me.
<xnox> #vote sil2100 for Core Dev application
<meetingology> Please vote on: sil2100 for Core Dev application
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<xnox> !dmb-ping
<xnox> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from xnox
<micahg_work> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from micahg_work
<bdmurray> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from bdmurray
<cyphermox> sorry
<cyphermox> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from cyphermox
<bdmurray> I'd like to echo what xnox said though.
<micahg_work> me too
<sil2100> Ok... thanks
<xnox> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: sil2100 for Core Dev application
<meetingology> Votes for:0 Votes against:1 Abstentions:3
<meetingology> Motion denied
<xnox> sil2100: please follow advice above, and we hope to see you reapply soon!
<xnox> #action xnox to update wiki with good examples of core-dev work, on the above guidance to sil2100
<meetingology> ACTION: xnox to update wiki with good examples of core-dev work, on the above guidance to sil2100
<sil2100> Will do
<xnox> since inception of core-dev a lot of things have changed, and it's good to have that documented.
<xnox> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<cyphermox> micahg_work: did N o s k c a j get his feedback after all?
<micahg_work> no :(
<micahg_work> but I did chat with him a little and let him know that we haven't forgotten
<cyphermox> ok
<xnox> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Aug 17 20:24:46 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-08-17-19.15.moin.txt
<micahg_work> thanks xnox
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-08-18
<arosales> ok, I didn't see any volunteers to chair today's server meeting and as I didn't look last week I guess I am on deck
<arosales> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Aug 18 16:02:42 2015 UTC.  The chair is arosales. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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<arosales> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
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<arosales> smoser to check with Odd_Bloke on status of high priority bug 1461242
<ubottu> bug 1461242 in cloud-init (Ubuntu Vivid) "cloud-init does not generate ed25519 keys" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1461242
<arosales> fix released now so we should be ok on that bug
<arosales> rharper, I think you were going to review numad
<arosales> any actions or follow up we should document?
<arosales> I'll take it that numad was reviewed properly there, if there are any comments around numad please ping here
<arosales> #topic Wily Development
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<arosales> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/ReleaseSchedule
<rbasak> So feature freeze is on Thursday.
<rbasak> I've been busy working on things with that deadline and so haven't reviewed anyone's bug fix submissions yet, sorry.
<arosales> I know coreycb and folks are working hard on the OpenStack pacakges
<arosales> busy week with feature freeze
<arosales> #subtopic Release Bugs
<arosales> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-w-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<arosales> I think we said here that bugs are behind feature freeze atm
<arosales> only 1 high bug atm
<rbasak> Does anyone have anything that needs sponsoring that is an item that cannot be uploaded after feature freeze?
<arosales> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-tornado/+bug/1478149
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1478149 in python-tornado (Ubuntu Wily) "python-tornado tests fail against python3.5" [High,Triaged]
<arosales> slangasek marked that one as high so looks like it needs a review
<arosales> volunteers?
<arosales> ok ping if any folks can take a look at 1478149
<arosales> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
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<arosales> caribou any updates for server and cloud bugs?
<arosales> .
<arosales> .
<arosales> .
<arosales> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
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<arosales> matsubara, any bits for QA?
<arosales> .
<arosales> .
<arosales> .
<matsubara> Completed SRU verification for bug 1336742
<arosales> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
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<ubottu> bug 1336742 in squid3 (Ubuntu Trusty) "Caching responses with "Vary" header" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1336742
<matsubara> other than that, nothing else to report arosales
<arosales> thanks matsubara
<arosales> good to hear SRU verified for 1336742
<arosales> smb, sforshee, arges: any bits from kernel?
<arosales> .
<arosales> .
<arosales> .
<rharper> arosales: just missed you earlier on numad, no progress on that front at this time, I'll carry the action for a bit till we get some time
<arosales> # action rharper review numad
<arosales> trhanks rharper
<arosales> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
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<arosales> I don't know of any upcoming events for CFP deadlines, any ones folks would like to bring up?
<arosales> .
<arosales> .
<arosales> .
<arosales> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
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<arosales> Any upcoming event folks would like to call out?
<arosales> #link http://insights.ubuntu.com/event/juju-charmer-summit-2015/
<arosales> if folks are interested in Juju and Charm authoring
<arosales> #topic Open Discussion
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<arosales> Any other topics?
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<rharper> rbasak I wanted to chat about the bcache-tools sru
<rbasak> Sure
<rharper> what all do we need to bring that into trusty ?
<rbasak> It will probably need a tech board exception. Technically the SRU team could choose to accept it I think, but historically they never do. So best to send to the TB in the first instance to save time IMHO.
<rharper> right, ok
<rbasak> Once that's done, a backport needs to be prepared and tested, sponsored and then the SRU team will be able to accept it in the usual way.
<rharper> is there a general template, or do we fill out the SRU info in the bug and forward that ?
<rharper> ok, I suggest we do some of the work in parallel
<rharper> I know we've tested the vivid version in trusty
<rharper> not clear about what's currently in wily
<rbasak> We don't really have a template as it's pretty exceptional. An email to the tech board mailing list with a request and justification should do.
<rharper> which I suppose is what we'd bring in? instead of vivid version ?
<rharper> rbasak: ok
<rbasak> We'd want to backport something that's already in the archive ideally.
<rharper> ok
<rbasak> If the Vivid version is tested and the Wily version is at increased risk of introducing regression (as opposed to fixing bugs that we want in the backport) then I don't see any reason why we can't backport the Vivid version.
<rharper> sure
<rharper> I'll have a look at the delta
<rbasak> Thanks!
<arosales> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<arosales> #info NEXT MEETING: Tuesday 2015-08-25 at 1600 UTC - #ubuntu-meeting
<arosales> next chair = gnuoy
<arosales> thanks!
<kickinz1> Thanks arosales
<arosales> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Aug 18 16:17:22 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-08-18-16.02.moin.txt
 * wxl yawns
<toddc> AzLoco present for meeting
<pavlos> +1
<wxl> hang in there toddc. we're pooling ourselves together. :)
<toddc> thank you
<PabloRubianes> toddc: sorry we are getting quorum
<elacheche_anis> wxl, do you have a meeting today?
<wxl> elacheche_anis: trying to. you know if lunapersa is around?
<elacheche_anis> I'm calling her.. She just entered home.. She was planning to join the meeting since the weekend..
<wxl> thanks elacheche_anis
<elacheche_anis> Do you have the quorum!
<wxl> unfortunately, even with lunapersa, no.
<elacheche_anis> wxl, as I am here.. Do I need to send an email to the LoCo Council to give me admin access on our ML?
<elacheche_anis> I'm the LoCo contact and one of the leader of the community..
<wxl> elacheche_anis: could you send an email to the loco-council mailing list on that subject, please?
<wxl> toddc: it looks like we do not have quorum to deal with your re-verification in this meeting.
<wxl> toddc: but we have a solution!
<wxl> toddc: you will NOT have to wait until another meeting.
<toddc> good?
<wxl> toddc: we will create a private bug on Launchpad and handle getting the necessary votes that way.
<wxl> toddc: this should take a few days.
 * elacheche_anis thanks wxl 
<wxl> toddc: if you have any questions, comments, or concerns, feel free to ask the lococouncil mailing list or pop into #ubuntu-lococouncil and we'll make sure you get taken care of.
<toddc> will I need to do anything else to assist that endevor?
<wxl> toddc: i apologize for the delay, sincerely, and i appreciate all that you and your team have been doing to spread the good word of ubuntu.
<PabloRubianes> toddc: no, we link the reverification to the bug and you there
<PabloRubianes> if it some question you can answer in the comments to the bug
<toddc> we have 10 local team mebers present today so I explane it to them
<PabloRubianes> we are really sorry but we are 2 and need a quorum of 4
<wxl> we could reschedule for another meeting, but neither one of us want to keep you waiting any more, toddc
<wmack> What is the logistics of replying to comments on the bug?
<PabloRubianes> as you are suscribed to the bug you get an email
 * elacheche_anis apologize in the behalf of lunapersa, she's not home yet because of the weather and metro traffic problems.
<toddc> np thank for setting the bug report and let me know if you need anything else
<wmack> you mentioned it being a private bug...
<PabloRubianes> wmack: gets public after the voting
<markthomas> And maybe we can get launchpad karma at the same time :)
<wxl> thank you so much toddc
<wxl> markthomas: not sure that game is going to get you very far ;)
<wmack> Thanks for taking care of this in an alternate way.
<PabloRubianes> toddc: your lp id is : tcole3737?
<toddc> correct
<PabloRubianes> great
<lunapersa> hi wxl
<PabloRubianes> hello lunapersa
<lunapersa> i'm sorry
<lunapersa> hi PabloRubianes
<PabloRubianes> toddc: the bug is reported, I'll email the loco council to push this fast
<PabloRubianes> and apologies again for the meeting
<toddc> PabloRubianes: thank you!
<PabloRubianes> toddc: NP
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-08-20
<Kilos> o/
<dholbach> hello hello
<czajkowski> aloha
<pleia2> o/
<czajkowski> greetings!
<dholbach> #startmeeting CC meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Aug 20 17:01:00 2015 UTC.  The chair is dholbach. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | CC meeting | Current topic:
<czajkowski> really should drink less tea!
<dholbach> #chair czajkowski pleia2
<meetingology> Current chairs: czajkowski dholbach pleia2
<dholbach> czajkowski, is that possible?
<hannie> hi all
<dholbach> according to http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda we're meeting up with the Doc team and QA team today
<dholbach> do we folks from the doc team here? :)
<pleia2> looks like we have a few folks from the doc team here already :)
<dsmythies> Yes.
<pleia2> o/ GunnarHj and hannie
<GunnarHj> o/
<dholbach> fantastic
<dholbach> #topic Catching up with the Doc team!
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | CC meeting | Current topic: Catching up with the Doc team!
<dholbach> how are you all doing?
<pleia2> dsmythies: hi to you too!
<tedmcox> hello!
<dsmythies> Fine.  Things are a little slower in the Summer (at least it is summer where I live).
<dholbach> how did things go for docs in ubuntu in the last months?
<GunnarHj> Same here. :)
 * pleia2 switch to docs hat
<GunnarHj> dholbach: Actually not much has happended since last time we met.
<pleia2> we haven't been able to test it with a new contributor, but Canonical IS finally worked on our bug that caused folks not to be able to edit pages on the help.ubuntu.com/community wiki if they don't have a launchpad account
<dsmythies> There has been some ongoing work on the serverguide. Bug fixes.
<pleia2> hoping that will make the crazy process at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiGuide/Registration obsolete
<GunnarHj> pleia2: Excellent, that's a good change.
<dsmythies> pleia2: It will great to have that finally fixed.
<GunnarHj> As regards the desktop, Unity 7 is pretty stable, and the docs work for Unity 8 cannot be started yet.
<bregma> unfortunately
<dholbach> are there other blockers apart from the help.u.c issue?
<GunnarHj> No big blockers, I think
<hannie> I see that the string freeze for 15.10 is on September 17th
<GunnarHj> One positive news is that tedmcox and a few other will attend the Open Help conference in a few weeks.
<pleia2> great
<tedmcox> so far we have three or four people coming to the openhelp sprints
<dholbach> how do the openhelp sprints work?
<czajkowski> that's great
<czajkowski> tedmcox: and do people know they can request for help for funding in order to attend, in case there are others out there who may want to attend but can't http://community.ubuntu.com/help-information/funding/
<dholbach> is it people coming together and working on help/docs? or how does it work?
<tedmcox> from what i understand, it's a pretty informal meeting where we sit down around a table for several hours and work on whatever the doc team needs
<dholbach> nice
<tedmcox> other people from the conference might join in, too
<dholbach> did you try to do something like that in a virtual sprint already?
<pleia2> czajkowski: yes, I reminded them about it on list already, ahoneybun is applying
<pleia2> last I knew he hadn't heard back yet
 * pleia2 fingers crossed
<dholbach> in the canonical community team we set up a docs hour each week where we look at bugs in {community,developer}.u.c and other places we're responsible for and try to fix them together
<tedmcox> i've never tried a vitual sprint
<pleia2> I think time zones make that a bit tricky for us
<dholbach> right
<dholbach> maybe two hours in different timezones on a given day
<dholbach> I find that it helps being and working together and being able to ask others or collaborate on something
<dholbach> and it's a fixed date on the calendar which also helps :-)
<GunnarHj> Sounds like a possibility to increase motivation.
<dholbach> yeah, it could also attract newcomers if you share the date via blog/mail
<GunnarHj> indeed
<dholbach> anyway... that was just an idea :)
<dholbach> how is the general feedback when it comes to our docs - you said that in a few cases you applied some bug fixes... are the docs generally "good enough" or lacking or...?
<dsmythies> As mentioned in our last meeting, for the serverguide we lack subject matter expert input. The serverguide struglles to be current.
<GunnarHj> "Good enough" or not depends on where you put the rib. ;)
<hannie> Is there any feedback from users of Ubuntu Docs Desktop?
<GunnarHj> The desktop docs is far less technical compared to the server guide. Very few bugs nowadays. Personally I think it's "good enough".
<dholbach> dsmythies, are you in touch with the server and cloud teams at canonical - do you know if they have any more training docs or anything which could be "merged"?
<pleia2> hannie: only here and there via bug reports, but even then it's not much
<pleia2> most of the bug reports that come in are for serverguide and the help wiki
<GunnarHj> pleia2: And those bugs about the help wiki are usually rejected...
<czajkowski> I
<dsmythies> peter matulis usually handles server and cloud team interactions. I wouldn't know who to conntact.
<pleia2> GunnarHj: yeah, hoping those will reduce anyway now that newcomers *should* be able to edit it again
<czajkowski> I'm wondering if there is a way to get the server and cloud team on board even virtually to mini sprint and review docs
<dsmythies> note that cononical now has it own clould stuff on help.ubuntu.com
<dholbach> ok... I'm sure Peter knows who to ping... if you should need any more help finding people, let me know
<GunnarHj> pleia2: Indeed. Looking forward to it. :)
<hannie> Since there is no big difference between 15.04 and 15.10 I think there is not a great deal of work to be done for this version. Am I right?
<dholbach> If I remember correctly the last time we spoke, you said that the thing you needed most were more hands on deck. If that's still the case, I guess we could work on trying to invite new folks together. Maybe do a Q&A session together and get the team more publicity.
<GunnarHj> hannie: Agreed. There is still always room for improvements...
<hannie> GunnarHj, true
<dsmythies> We are starting to get heads up type bug reports or e-mails about 16.04 specific serverguide chnages. A sprint idea would be to close as many bugs as possible before we split out the serverguide into a 14.04 specific version and the truck version.
<dsmythies> note the serverguide only published LTS versions.
<dsmythies> truck should be trunck
<tedmcox> that's a good idea
<dsmythies> tes I'll follow up on the e-mail list.
<dsmythies> ted, I mean.
<GunnarHj> dholbach: Not sure what "deck" means, but indeed we need more contributors who are ready to do the "dirty work". Will be extra important when the Unity 8 docs has been launched.
<dholbach> GunnarHj, which tasks for example would fall into the "dirty work" category?
<hannie> When will Unity 8 be shipped with Ubuntu?
<GunnarHj> dholbach: Writing and editing docs. ;)
<bregma> hannie, not by default in 16.04
<dholbach> ok
<dsmythies> "deck" mean the deck of a ship. "all hands on deck" is a saying, meaning everybody.
<hannie> bregma, will it be an option in 16.04?
<GunnarHj> dsmythies: Thanks. :)
<ahoneybun> pleia2: I've not heard back yet
<ahoneybun> o/
<dholbach> I'll take an action to start a brainstorming discussion for inviting more folks to contribute.
<GunnarHj> dholbach: Thanks, that's much appreciated.
<bregma> hannie, yes, but the form it will take makes writing docs for it now very challenging
<dholbach> Is there anything else I could help with, or the CC maybe?
<dsmythies> I don't have anything specific for C.C.
<GunnarHj> Me neither.
<dholbach> ok... please let me know if you can think of anything
<dholbach> I'm done with questions now and I'm sorry, but I'll have to run now. Have a great rest of your day - and thanks pleia2 and czajkowski for taking over!
<dsmythies> we will likely have better feedback/input after the 16.04 cycle. LTS cycles tend to be much busier.
<hannie> dholbach, thanks
<pleia2> thanks for coming docs friends :)
<dsmythies> yes, thanks.
<GunnarHj> Thanks all!
<hannie> see you
<pleia2> #topic Catching up with the QA team
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<pleia2> balloons: about?
<czajkowski> thanks docs team
<balloons> pleia2, indeed. Is today the day?
<pleia2> balloons: it is! how are things in QA land?
<czajkowski> it is :D
<balloons> bah, I need a reminder the day before :-) I see the hour blocked out in my calendar
<balloons> regardless, things are coming along in QA land
<balloons> there's a few community initiatives we're trying to land this cycle. The first is having the community host and run automated image testing. The second is getting the community directly invovled with OTA testing
<balloons> I'm happy that there's some new oppurtunties for people to get invovled, and I think we'll see some growth in those areas. aka, snappy and phones are cool
<pleia2> I mentioned the community host and run automated image testing initiative during my talk at ubuconla :) how is attracting contributors going?
<balloons> there's been many people interested in helping host and run things; and all fresh faces
<balloons> For contributors now, the larger challenge seems to be finding ways to ensure the work they do is useful
 * pleia2 nods
<balloons> It's mostly about coordinating with QA, which is what is happening for the OTA testing. I'm hopeful this will open the door to more oppurturnities
<pleia2> OTA is phone testing?
<balloons> yea
<pleia2> yeah, we've noticed that it's certainly easier to grow communities in areas where there's shiny new things to work on, as you say snappy and phones :)
<balloons> So struggles are keeping up with the older and more legacy tasks. The images still get tested, but the contributors have dropped off sharply since trusty. We place less emphasis on them as well. The automated image testing effort I hope will help flavors get over that hump
<pleia2> yeah, makes sense
<balloons> the other struggle has always been coordinating people willing to run new and shiny things to give feedback about it
<pleia2> I've seen that some in Xubuntu as well, we have to stress in every call for testing that tests don't "count" unless they actually report the results
<pleia2> follow through can be tough sometimes
<balloons> right. I'm hopeful that we can set better processes in place as we start in on the 'new' things
<pleia2> cool
<pleia2> so are there any challenges/blockers now, or anything the CC could help with?
<balloons> the tracker as it is, will continue to be with us and carry it's problems with us it seems :-)
<pleia2> is there anything that can be done to fix the outstanding bugs?
<pleia2> I know I still struggle with them
<balloons> Umm, hmm
<balloons> For the tracker specifically, it's hard to think about if we should move tools, invest in fixing what we have, etc. The community, primarily dkessel, has been more or less fixing things for the last few years
<balloons> but it's limited
<czajkowski> balloons: what do you mean by the tracker is with you and carry with it, its problems?
<pleia2> yeah, mostly I'm talking about the ones you've discussed with knome and the xubuntu team, we collected the major pain point bugs but things like "only show bugs related to this iso and get rid of bug image icons" have gone nowhere and continue to be troublesome
<balloons> Long-term, I'd like to integrate more with what QA itself is using / doing
<balloons> czajkowski, the tracker is a tool that was custom built for image testing, but has many rough edges from a user's point of view
<balloons> it does many things, but none of them well :-)
 * pleia2 nods
<balloons> the bugs we're talking about would lower the barrier towards using it and making it more pleasant to use
<balloons> no one really enjoys using it, thus it's an uphill battle to ask someone to do so
<balloons> getting information out of it after folks have used it is also a challenge, heh
<pleia2> yeah, reporting results was the hardest part of teaching folks at the QA jam back in february
<czajkowski> nods
<czajkowski> balloons: and is there a plan internally to make this easier
<balloons> So, as far as how the CC might help. Just encourage folks to be active as always :-) It would be helpful to make sure the new folks we are getting into ubuntu via IoT and phones (aka those who don't run ubuntu on a desktop / laptop) are well integrated
<pleia2> given the state of the tracker, I continue to find it hard to encourage people when it's so lousy
<balloons> thinking about contact points and how we interact, etc
<pleia2> I keep helping them use it, but it's a huge time sink for me when I'd really just rather see it fixed, I can't keep making this time
<balloons> czajkowski, there is no plan afaik. The process as it stands is pretty much status quo.
<czajkowski> pleia2: +1
<balloons> I'd like to see certain changes made, but they would be more far-reaching than simply changing a tool. It's also something probably better pursued a couple cycles ago. But no time like the present I guess
<czajkowski> balloons: so perhaps one way to do this
<balloons> if you know of a way to help make the process better, or want to try, that would be really useful
<czajkowski> in order to really get people involved is to actually take a look at the bugs
<czajkowski> and see what we can do to get them fixed
<pleia2> it's just the same UI changes the Xubuntu team has been asking for for over a year
<czajkowski> pleia2: has said they are UI changes which given the amount of folks in the community surely we can get this done ?
<balloons> yes, knome and the rest of the community really put together a nice design
<pleia2> those few improvements would help incredibly, but no movement there
<pleia2> balloons: nods
<pleia2> a lot of that came from feedback I got at in person QA jams
<balloons> no one wants to touch drupal :p
<pleia2> if the community developed fixes, could we get Canonical to commit to actually implementing them in a timely manner?
<czajkowski> so one thing I think we could do is see if the web team internal could have a look at the bugs
<balloons> pleia2, since you are more closely invovled with a flavor, to what extent is this harming flavors?
<czajkowski> and see what could be done even by priortising them
<czajkowski> not one to add work to others plates
<czajkowski> but surely it cant hurt to ask
<czajkowski> no ?
<balloons> pleia2, yes I can release any fixes as well as test and review them
<pleia2> balloons: a lot, we're struggling to get people to report results, and ones who do need to be hand-held through the process, massive time waste for us
<balloons> that process is really quick
<czajkowski> balloons: you say this :) will hold you to it!
<pleia2> ok, I'll see about getting contributors to submit fixes
<balloons> czajkowski, :-) I did work when Daniel was doing things to make this easy
<balloons> and the IS deployments are 5 mins tops
<pleia2> there's just a lot of reluctance because I know folks who have submitted fixes for planet.u.c that don't land, kills enthuisasm and they won't contribute again
<balloons> pleia2, ack. Perhaps approaching the issue as something that affects all flavors is the way to go
<pleia2> balloons: makes sense
<czajkowski> nods
<balloons> I would support that. It would be useful to have the community exert more control over the whole process of releasing
<pleia2> ok, I'll see what I can do :)
<balloons> pleia2, :-( Yes, we actually were talking about that
<balloons> unreviewed patches not landing
<balloons> do we have some time setup for a sync with the community team?
<balloons> I know we talked about that in the past.. or maybe I'm mistaken
<pleia2> I don't think so
<pleia2> er,
<pleia2> "we" as in flavors QA?
<balloons> err, right. I meant CC and community team
<pleia2> oh, gotcha
<pleia2> I don't think we ever set anything up, but we should
<balloons> re: tracker, there's a thread happening right now. So the discussion is already on the table
<pleia2> balloons: can you send an email to the CC with the proposal, including Canonical community team folks who you think should attend?
 * pleia2 nods
<balloons> pleia2, yes I think we should formally meet. It's sort of never been an issue because of the inclusion of some of the team on the CC
<balloons> but that may or may not always be the case, and doesn't include us all anyway, so :-)
<pleia2> the CC will change in a couple months, so it's probably worth getting in the habit of soon
 * pleia2 nods
<czajkowski> balloons: thanks
<pleia2> alright, coming to the end of our hour, anything else?
<balloons> ok, so I'll send something to the list asking for a time to meet with the Canonical community tem
<pleia2> thanks :)
<pleia2> thanks for the chat, balloons!
<balloons> thanks for the discussion
<pleia2> #topic Any other business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | CC meeting | Current topic: Any other business
<pleia2> IRC Council 17:00UTC 3rd September / Canonical Community Team 17:30UTC 3rd September
<pleia2> ^^ next catch up
<pleia2> oh hey, canonical community team :)
<pleia2> should make sure we remember to send out reminder to IRC Council too, haven't heard much from them lately (I assume that's a good thing)
<pleia2> ok, thanks everyone
<pleia2> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Aug 20 17:59:12 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-08-20-17.01.moin.txt
<balloons> pleia2, did you already schedule it? ;p\
<dkessel> uh, a ping
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-08-22
<mdeslaur> \o
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Aug 22 16:32:14 2016 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> hi
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> mdeslaur: go ahead (jd strand is in the middle of a conversation in another channel)
<mdeslaur> I'm on cve triage this week
<mdeslaur> I am working on libidn updates, if I can get them to build
<mdeslaur> and I have harfbuzz updates to test
<mdeslaur> I'll be picking something else off the list and I'm leaving for two weeks vacation on friday
<mdeslaur> that's it for me
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> mdeslaur: vacation> woo, nice!
<mdeslaur> oh, tomorrow I have patch piloting also
<sbeattie> I'm in the happy place this week
<sbeattie> I have an embargoed issue I'm working on
<sbeattie> I have some apparmor upstream work to do (reviews, etc)
<sbeattie> I need to get back to looking for pie-related build failures
<sbeattie> I'll also try to pick up an update or two this week
<sbeattie> that's probably it for me. tyhicks?
<tyhicks> I'm on community duty this week
<tyhicks> I'll work towards landing a policy adjustment for the fix for bug #1260103
<ubottu> bug 1260103 in Canonical System Image "oxide should use an app-specific path for shared memory files" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1260103
<tyhicks> I need to do some code review around some shim changes
<tyhicks> then I really need to get some time to focus on the seccomp logging changes
<tyhicks> and maybe do some reviews tools work for squashfs issues
 * jdstrand can go whenever
<tyhicks> go ahead jdstrand
<jdstrand> last week was dominated by PR reviews: docker (getting there), udisks2/pluggable-storage (close to landing), fuse (merged), fwupd (getting there), lxd
<jdstrand> last week also involved coordinating an investigation and designing how to deal with bug #1611444 for devmode (and a few other things). snappy team assigned to the implementation (which will require review from us)
<ubottu> bug 1611444 in Snappy Launcher "Cannot share a namespaces created with 'ip netns' between apps in a devmode SNAP" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1611444
<jdstrand> I was assigned some new high priority items:
<jdstrand> takeover lxd interface and implement lxd-support based on discussions with snappy team
<jdstrand> work with desktop team on browser policy
<jdstrand> discuss availability of commamds in core to snap interfaces
<jdstrand> network-namespace (TBD) interface for allowing snaps to use other network namespaces
<jdstrand> A couple of policy bugs came in from high profile stakeholders, so I need to fix those and a handful of other small policy bugs
<jdstrand> I'll try to be responsive to the aforementioned PR reviews as best I can, but these highest priority items will backburner some things for a little bit
<jdstrand> the dbus-app PR is getting requests again. I'm not going to move to it til I'm through the higher priority cards though unless told otherwise
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<tyhicks> that sounds like the right approach to me, jdstrand
<tyhicks> jjohansen: go ahead
<jjohansen> I am going to be spending most of my week on the Linux Security Summit
<jjohansen> any other time is going to be spent on bug fixing and upstreaming apparmor
<jjohansen> bug 1579135 in particular
<ubottu> bug 1579135 in apparmor (Ubuntu) "AppArmor profile reloading causes an intermittent kernel BUG" [Critical,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1579135
<tyhicks> thanks for working on that
<tyhicks> chrisccoulson: you're up
<chrisccoulson> I'm catching up from last week - getting through my email backlog and untangling all of the chromium changes over the last week
<chrisccoulson> I'll also probably do firefox 48.0.1, as there's a few bug fixes in that
<chrisccoulson> Other than that, I'll be working through oxide bugs as usual
<chrisccoulson> I think that's me done
<ratliff> I'm shadowing sarnold doing Bug Triage this week
<ratliff> Also continuing to work on unity 8 MIRs
<ratliff> back to you tyhicks
<tyhicks> thanks
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/perdition.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/tripleo-image-elements.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/php-mail.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/shellinabox.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/radare2.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> jdstrand: I wanted to mention that jasper has already been demoted
<jdstrand> cool
<tyhicks> (you had planned to help me with that once it was time)
<jdstrand> thanks
<tyhicks> np
<sbeattie> Oh, I converted the debian2ubuntu bzr tree to git last night, but kees owns the project so I haven't been able to put it in place as the official branch.
<tyhicks> nice
<sbeattie> It's at https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-security/debian2ubuntu/+git/debian2ubuntu
<tyhicks> sbeattie: has the kernel team started using the QRT git tree?
<sbeattie> yeah, bjf moved over this weekend
<tyhicks> great
<sbeattie> he's still wanting the subproject stuff, to get the download sizes down.
<sbeattie> (can't blame him)
<tyhicks> agreed
<sbeattie> I'm hoping to poke at that in the background.
<tyhicks> I have no experience with submodules so I won't be of any help
<tyhicks> I'm anxious to see how it works out
<tyhicks> but do let me know if there are general git questions that I can help with
<sbeattie> Thanks.
<tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, ChrisCoulson, ratliff: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Aug 22 16:58:26 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-08-22-16.32.moin.txt
<mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks
<ratliff> thanks, tyhicks!
<jjohansen> thanks tyhicks
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks!
<jdstrand> tyhicks: thanks! :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-08-23
<gnuoy> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Aug 23 16:00:34 2016 UTC.  The chair is gnuoy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<powersj> o/
<nacc> o/
<jgrimm> o/
<gnuoy> I'll just give late arrivals a minute
<smoser> o//
<rharper> o/
<gnuoy> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<gnuoy> #subtopic rbasak update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting/IRCCommands to match correct urls
<gnuoy> They looked good to me
<gnuoy> I think that is done
<jgrimm> gnuoy, rbasak is out this week
<gnuoy> ack, ta
<gnuoy> #subtopic smoser: remember to take yourself off the chair list
<jgrimm> but agreed
<jgrimm> lol
<gnuoy> he did!
<rharper> heh
<gnuoy> #topic Yakkety Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Yakkety Development
<gnuoy> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/YakketyYak/ReleaseSchedule
<jgrimm> post FF obviously
<gnuoy> yep
<gnuoy> #subtopic Release Bugs
<gnuoy> I see no link for that, there used to be didn't there?
<jgrimm> oh.. yes, but i think rbasak was going to replace with a more useful link
<gnuoy> ah, ok
<gnuoy> Does anyone want to point at any bugs in particular?
<nacc> probably woudl have been http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-y-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server prior
<gnuoy> ta
<jgrimm> nacc, yeah.. but that's mostly useless for a variety of reasons
<nacc> jgrimm: yep, agreed
<gnuoy> I'll move on unless someone wants to bring anything up here?
<gnuoy> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<jgrimm> i'm good.
<gnuoy> any set of bugs or bug that anyone wants to bring up  here ?
<caribou> nothing special this week
<gnuoy> kk
<gnuoy> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
<gnuoy> #link https://jenkins.ubuntu.com/server/
<powersj> Working on an 'lxctest' wrapper for integration testing for cloud-init and curtin. Check in on various bugs and tickets this morning. Triage later, need to sync with nacc on who is doing what.
<gnuoy> tip top
<jgrimm> powersj: cpaelzer will be back tomorrow.. i want to rope him into the triage fun as well
<powersj> jgrimm, ok! happy to have more help :)
<nacc> jgrimm: should we take an action item ( powersj, myself or rbasak) to update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase 's triaging section at some point?
<jgrimm> nacc, yes!
<nacc> i'm 99% sure the schedule, e.g., is wrong
<powersj> ah yes we were going to use friday's meeting to update that, but got to busy wtih triage
<gnuoy> nacc, I don't know how to assign action to multiple people!
<powersj> Give it to me
<jgrimm> nacc, i was just doing some updates to the wiki today to remove old cruft .. so timely observation
<gnuoy> #action powersj  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase
<jgrimm> thanks powersj
<meetingology> ACTION: powersj  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase
<nacc> someone asked to join it on #ubuntu-server recently
<gnuoy> powersj, thanks
<nacc> powersj: thanks!
<powersj> np
<powersj> nacc, let's chat after this
<nacc> powersj: +1
<gnuoy> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<smb> The 4.6 kernel update for yakkety unfortunately got delayed due to tooling/archive issues. I would expect a new attempt soonish, but I said something like that before
<smb> The new libvirt-2.1.0 went up as planned
<gnuoy> thanks for the update smb
<gnuoy> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<gnuoy> i dont have anything and no one else speaking up
<jgrimm> smb, is there usually a corresponding update to python-libvirt needed?
<jgrimm> smb, i haven't checked just noticed that versions seemed to be somewhat lockstepped in the past
<smb> jgrimm, hm... probably that might have slipped through the cracks
<jgrimm> smb, cool.. may not be relevant just a thought that crossed my mind reviewing outstanding merges
<smb> jgrimm, Not sure either whether my limited upload rights are including that
<smb> jgrimm, I guess it should be done
<jgrimm> smb, if you don't have time let me know.. i'll find someone
<smb> jgrimm, I think its not so much time as can do it
 * smb is no core-dev
<jgrimm> smb, only has a single ubuntu patch.. hopefullly an easy merge
<gnuoy> apologies for the trigger happy topic change
<gnuoy> anyone know of any calls for papers?
<jgrimm> smb, no worries, just let me know if you want to take or pass along
<smb> jgrimm, I think I opt for pass along
<jgrimm> smb, :)
<jgrimm> thanks for tackling libvirt!
<smb> yw
<jgrimm> gnuoy, ok, i'm done
<gnuoy> ta
<gnuoy> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<gnuoy> i'm giving this 15 seconds or so before moving to open dicsussion
<jgrimm> linuxcon is on this week
<gnuoy> anyone here attending?
<jgrimm> good number of folks are there or presenting.  stgraber being one
<gnuoy> kk
<gnuoy> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<jgrimm> nada for me
<gnuoy> on we go then
<gnuoy> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<gnuoy> next meeting will be Tuesday 2016-08-30 at 1600 UTC
<gnuoy> chair will be rbasak
<jgrimm> thanks gnuoy!
<rharper> gnuoy: thanks!
<gnuoy> Shall I skip the "ssigned merges/bugwork" topic ?
<jgrimm> gnuoy, yep!
<gnuoy> excellent
<gnuoy> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Aug 23 16:17:49 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-08-23-16.00.moin.txt
<nacc> gnuoy: thanks!
<gnuoy> np
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-08-25
 * slangasek waves
<sil2100> o/
<caribou> \o
<pitti> ~o~
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Aug 25 15:01:17 2016 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox pitti tdaitx xnox chiluk mwhudson)
<slangasek> xnox chiluk tdaitx mwhudson pitti barry infinity robru sil2100 bdmurray slangasek cyphermox caribou doko
<xnox> ah
<xnox> skip
<chiluk> o/  welcome back slangasek
 * pitti watches xnox frantically scribbling down notes
<chiluk> Mostly working on kernel bugs like. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1616193
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1616193 in linux (Ubuntu) "3.13: libvirtd: page allocation failure: order:4, mode:0x1040d0" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<chiluk> -done-
<tdaitx> 2016-08-25
<tdaitx> = OpenJDK security update
<tdaitx> - Packaging and testing OpenJDK 6 from IcedTea's mercurial repository
<tdaitx> - Packaged and tested OpenJDK 6 based on IcedTea 1.13.12 (released yesterday) for Trusty and Precise
<tdaitx> = JCK
<tdaitx> - Back to testing
<tdaitx> = OpenJDK 8
<tdaitx> - Fixing jtreg logging for zero and jamvm
<tdaitx> = Other
<tdaitx> - Considering what to snap
<tdaitx> (done)
<pitti> mwhudson is asleep I suppose?
<slangasek> yes :)
<pitti> netplan:
<pitti>  - Add "dhcp6" and gateway options (committed, not landed yet due to beta freeze)
<pitti>  - Discuss design for VLAN support and start implementing it
<pitti>  - Add command for ifupdown config migration; can migrate simple DHCP stanzas and is robust to ignore configs that it does not know about; migration on package upgrade not enabled yet, though
<pitti>  - Make "netplan apply" do interface renames by simulating hotplugging
<pitti>  - Debug integration test regression, due to NM #1615044
<pitti>  - Add code coverage report for python parts and crank up coverage
<pitti> systemd:
<pitti>  - SRU fix pid1's stdin/out/err in containers (#1608953)
<pitti>  - Provide deputy system service manager for snapd backport (#1616422); I'd appreciate some help from someone knowledgeable about upstart debugging about shutdown not working
<pitti>  - udev: Fix vastly inefficient udev rule causing readlink to get called hundreds of times (#1615021)
<pitti> misc:
<pitti>  - merge util-linux (CVE fix)
<pitti>  - meeting: Next steps for snappy support on 14.04
<pitti>  - ubiquity: Clean up obsolete and no-op /etc/network/interfaces and /etc/iftab code
<pitti>  - Investigate ppc64el cloud image failure (#1616743)
<pitti>  - Reproduce console-conf hang, give feedback and suggestions to mwhudson
<pitti>  - Review https://code.launchpad.net/~robru/bileto/publish-job/+merge/302105
<pitti>  - lots of SRU review and archive admin
<pitti> (END)
<barry> ubuntu-image: gadget-yaml branch (landed); validate branch (WIP)
<barry> debuntu: python-virtualenv 15.0.3+ds-1 (+ syncpackage); twine 1.8.1-1 (will need FFE); syncpackage xonsh 0.4.4+dfsg-1
<barry> ridin' the snappy train
<barry> sundry sysadmin tasks
<barry> --done--
<infinity> Short week due to a poor illness/work ratio:
<infinity>  * Investigated fakeroot/glibc/mklibs interaction, opted for a workaround in mklibs
<infinity>  * Working on fixing our langpack altdir patch to stop segfaulting in glibc >= 2.23
<infinity>  * More planning with the kernel team on a second attempt to get kernel 4.6 in
<infinity>  * General AA/SRU/Release/etc tasks
<infinity>  * Fix Support header generation for *-updates, release pocket fix to come
<infinity> (done)
<robru> lp:bileto
<robru> - reviewed and rolled out sil2100's PPA description fixing branch
<robru> - finished new publish job, obsoleting Jenkins entirely
<robru> - began work on git support
<robru> lp:canonical-mojo-specs
<robru> - fixed spec to stop deploying Jenkins in future deployments
<robru> (done)
<chiluk> someone is spreading the ubu-flu.
<sil2100> - Landing team work, silo coordination, preparing landing e-mails
<sil2100> - RTM status meetings
<sil2100> - Touch xenial:
<sil2100>   * Prepared multiple no-change rebuilds against new android-headers
<sil2100>   * Thanks to Vicamo's fixes, the OOBE UI comes up!
<sil2100>   * Importing first arm64-enabled device tarball
<sil2100>   * Leading weekly meeting, coordinating fixes landings
<sil2100> - zeromq3 and zmqpp update request:
<sil2100>   * Coordinating unity-scope-api yakkety-toolchain fixes for the no-change rebuilds
<sil2100>   * Filling in FFe, trying to bribe the release team (Steve)
<sil2100> - KPI instrument package auto-rebuilds:
<sil2100>   * Looked into using recipes for this (more troublesome due to LP creds and non-bzr projects)
<sil2100>   * Wrote a script for auto-rebuilding selected packages on upload with instrumentation
<sil2100>   * Set-up an environment for running the script on canonistack
<sil2100>   * Waiting for instrument-enable patches, experimented with qtubuntu
<sil2100> - Looking into the yakkety touch image build failures with click packages
<sil2100> - Coordinating the dbus ssh login delay bug fix on xenial/yakkety
<sil2100> - Fixing ubuntu-touch-session for xenial touch images
<sil2100> - Listening in at the presentation of the Alan cloud image build system
<sil2100> - Working on a bileto change for PPA description modification (first real bigger change!)
<sil2100> - Did several image copies for ubuntu-core
<sil2100> - Some DMB duties
<sil2100> (done)
 * xnox is ready
<bdmurray> resolved a traceback with the phased-updater
<bdmurray> wrote a test case for the update-notifier hwe change
<bdmurray> SRU verification of HWE stack bugs (update-manager, update-notifier, xserver-xorg-mesa...)
<bdmurray> updated meta-release files to use old-releases instead of archive.u.c for old releases
<bdmurray> investigation into HWE stack update-manager crash at errors.u.c
<bdmurray> wrote database query to find details about the HWE stack update-manager bug
<bdmurray> backported whoopsie patch to Trusty to upload more information w/ crashes
<bdmurray> added more acceptable fields (package manager stuff) to whoopsie for Y, T, X
<bdmurray> sru verification of Trusty bugs LP: #1616571, LP: #1616559
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1616571 in juju "bootstrap lxd failed to connect" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1616571
<bdmurray> short week due to holidays
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1616559 in whoopsie (Ubuntu Trusty) "whoopsie should send more data to the Error Tracker" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1616559
<bdmurray> â done
<bdmurray> well one of those was a typo
<bdmurray> bug 1616517
<ubottu> bug 1616517 in whoopsie (Ubuntu Xenial) "whoopsie does not send fields from some package management application crashes" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1616517
<pitti> chiluk: indeed, I caught it too last week (mostly recovering..)
<slangasek> robru: obsoleting jenkins> is the jenkins unit still up?
<robru> slangasek: the one in production is, but not staging
<slangasek> cool
<pitti> robru: nice!
<slangasek>  * road trip + partner meetings last Thursday
<slangasek>  * ubuntu-image:
<slangasek>   * iterating on grub-pc support
<slangasek>   * working on having ubuntu-image implementing the full gadget yaml spec
<slangasek>  * console-conf: netplan discussions, triaging of remaining tasks for RTM
<slangasek>  * analysis of a strange boot failure on an OpenPOWER system (LP: #1615021)
<slangasek>  * SRU processing
<slangasek>  * proposed-migration shepherding
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1615021 in systemd (Ubuntu Xenial) "Unable to network boot Ubuntu 16.04 installer normally on Briggs" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1615021
<slangasek>  * next:
<slangasek>   * more ubuntu-image
<slangasek>   * looking at creating a snap from scratch with snapcraft
<slangasek>  * taking vacation next Thu/Fri
<slangasek> (done)
<cyphermox> - [MIR] review unity-notifications (bug LP: #1613678)
<cyphermox> - debugging grub 'no symbol table' crashes in new builds
<cyphermox> - debugging network-manager openvpn split-tunnelling (bug LP: #1603898)
<cyphermox> - workaround LC_NUMERIC bug in debconf-apt-progress/ubiquity (bug LP: #1611010)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1613678 in unity-notifications (Ubuntu) "[MIR] unity-notifications" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1613678
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1603898 in network-manager (Ubuntu Xenial) "DNS resolution fails when using VPN and routing all traffic over it" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1603898
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1611010 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "yakkety desktop - non-english installation crashes with /plugininstall.py: ValueError: invalid literal for int() with base 10: ''" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1611010
<cyphermox> - shim EKU discussions and code review
<cyphermox> - bugfix in shim EKU code
<cyphermox> - console-conf/probert bug fixing
<cyphermox> - discuss / debug grub ipv6 w/ lamont
<cyphermox> - more grub2 dhcpv6 backporting...
<cyphermox> - preparing probert 0.0.6 release
<cyphermox> - preparing subiquity 0.0.7 release
<cyphermox> - coordinating console-conf landing in ubuntu-core
<cyphermox> - review/merge ubiquity hidpi fixes
<cyphermox> - review/merge ubiquity tests from nuclearbob
<cyphermox> - discuss arm64 efi failures w/ apw
<cyphermox> - looking into enabling IPv6 support in OVMF
<cyphermox> (done)
<caribou> Bugfix:
<caribou> dpkg status file corrupt
<caribou> samba winbind statically linked
<caribou> corosync timer questions
<caribou> Meetings
<caribou> (done)
<slangasek> xnox: doko is off today, so you can be doko for the meeting
<xnox> zua - finish d-i integration; openstack vendor metadata; juju suboridnate charm. testing things at the moment before announcing wider testing.
<xnox> boost1.61 / gcc6 ftbfs - down to 35 packages
<xnox> s390x - new s390-tools, enable numactl build, enable zfs/numa/systemtap in libvirt on s390x/ppc64el, new libdfp with zEC12 / z13 support
<xnox> (done)
<slangasek> nice
<slangasek> any questions?
<xnox> slangasek, can we have more armhf builders for a rebuild?
<xnox> armhf/arm64
 * xnox pretends to be doko
<slangasek> heh
<pitti> sil2100: you mentioned arm64 -- any news wrt. autopgkgtest requirements/hw ?
<slangasek> pitti: fwiw I've escalated that to Beret
<sil2100> pitti: no news, jibel is all aware, but I guess there still needs to be this discussion who should own the HW
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<cyphermox> my desktop looks all funky, because I have yet to reboot after updating gtk?
<pitti> doesn't look significantly less funky after rebooting, though ;)
<caribou> cyphermox: for some reason I lost the sound indicator on mine
<cyphermox> heh
<sil2100> I'm on holidays starting the 5th, two weeks from then
<pitti> (well, </trolling>)
<cyphermox> pitti: good to know, I'll postpone rebooting then
<pitti> cyphermox: really j/k, should be fine
<cyphermox> what I mean by funky is that I have just about no widgets showing up correctly
<xnox> cyphermox, logout/login helps. but i guess that's pretty much reboot.
<cyphermox> xnox: yeah, that's equivalent :)
<xnox> $ restart unity7
 * xnox ...and pray
<cyphermox> meh
<cyphermox> eventually I'll have fewer terminals open
<cyphermox> ... or a wish to let my office get cold again
<slangasek> the real cause of arctic ice melt
<cyphermox> it's *server room warm here*
<tdaitx> cyphermox, fewer terminals open? entropy does not allow that
<slangasek> tdaitx: the third law of terminodynamics?
<cyphermox> yep
 * infinity has to be rude and run off to the bathroom in the middle of the meeting; will read scrollback.
<cyphermox> I choose to turn more terminals into a temperature delta eventually
<tdaitx> slangasek, second, I have yet to see the number of terminals remaining contant... ;-)
<slangasek> :)
<slangasek> ok, anything else for real?
<barry> infinity: please turn off your mic
<infinity> barry: I didn't take my mic to the bathroom.
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Aug 25 15:26:40 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-08-25-15.01.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks!
<barry> thanks!
<caribou> thanks!
<pitti> thanks everyone!
<sil2100> Thanks!
<xnox> tah
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-08-27
<m0kc> Hello all.
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-08-22
<slashd> teward, good day I see you are chairing the ubuntu-server-meeting today ... just to let you know that I won't be able to attend today.
<teward> slashd: thanks for the heads up, anything you want us to report for you?  (meeting is in 5 minutes)
<teward> if not I'll just keep a note you're not here :)
<slashd> teward, the only highlight I have, is that the pcp MIR we are working on has been NACK by security team, and now pcp upstream is looking at security note and see what they can do to satisfy the need.
<slashd> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pcp/+bug/1700827 ^
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1700827 in pcp (Ubuntu) "[MIR] pcp package" [Undecided,New]
<teward> thanks for the info, I'll make sure it's noted in the meeting logs.
<slashd> teward, thanks
<teward> and just because i'm not 100% awake yet, you want that under the bugs and sru/pendinguploads section?
<teward> god I need to type better
<teward> or just as a general note?
<slashd> teward, yes please
<teward> will do, thanks.
<teward> 2 minutes, for the rest of you./
<slashd> teward, thanks I appreciated, I'm afk now ;)
<teward> see you!
<cpaelzer> o/
<powersj> o/
<teward> o/
<dpb1> hello
<dpb1> o/
<teward> let's give it 1 more minute, and I'll start it.  (I accidentally closed Chrome lol, i need the agenda xD)
<ahasenack> o/
<teward> alrighty, let's get started and hope I don't screw things up :0
<teward> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Aug 22 16:01:11 2017 UTC.  The chair is teward. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<teward> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<teward> * nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<teward> * nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<teward> nacc: any progress on these, or should we carry these over to next meeting?
<teward> * rbasak to add maintainership info to mysql triage page (carried over)
<nacc> teward: please carry over
<teward> I think rbasak is absent, as I got put in as the chair today, so I'll carry that to next meeting.
<dpb1> carry over rbasak too
<nacc> teward: rbasak is also not attending
<teward> yep
<nacc> thanks
<teward> #action nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<teward> #action nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<teward> #action
<meetingology> ACTION:
<teward> oops
<teward> #action rbasak to add maintainership info to mysql triage page (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: rbasak to add maintainership info to mysql triage page (carried over)
<teward> #topic Artful Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Artful Development
<teward> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/ReleaseSchedule
<ahasenack> feature freeze this week
<cpaelzer> There is a lot of stuff currently moving in - as part of the usual flurry of uploads before Feature freeze
<ahasenack> when exactly is it on the 24th? At what time?
<teward> beat me to it for a few seconds lol
<cpaelzer> so any testing might show up new issues, please report
<teward> ahasenack: I can put an inquiry to the release team to find out, but it's probably better to treat it as "on the day" rather than assume any given specific time
<teward> at least, that's how I've treated it, trying to get things in the day before
<cpaelzer> I don't think the time matters
<cpaelzer> what I'd like to know is if we hae known FFE's already in queue
<teward> Feature Freeze is on the 24th, so try and get things in by 23rd if you need to upload and add new features.
<cpaelzer> I didn't need mine for qemu, but there might be others
<dpb1> teward: +1
<powersj> that would be a good one to use #info on
<powersj> remember to take notes with that
<cpaelzer> also the Server Team is working on several extra merges that a few might end up as FFE
<teward> powersj: working on a laptop, 1 thing at a time :P
<cpaelzer> are ther eother known FFEs already?
<dpb1> hehe
<teward> #info Feature Freeze is on the 24th, so try and get things in by 23rd if you need to upload and add new features.
<teward> #info Server Team working on several extra merges that may end up as FFEs
<teward> cpaelzer: i'm not aware of any, anyone else know of any known FFEs on the radar?
<teward> guess not, moving on.
<cpaelzer> there are a few samba-vfs things
<teward> oops :P
<cpaelzer> anyone can check https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-release/+bugs?orderby=-date_last_updated&start=0
<cpaelzer> and look for FFe
<cpaelzer> that is what I do lacking a better list
<dpb1> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-release/+bugs?orderby=-date_last_updated&start=0
<dpb1> (anyone can put in links and infos btw)
<teward> dpb1: beating me to it by seconds xD
<dpb1> IIRC
<teward> dpb1: yep anyone can.
<teward> moving on
<teward> #subtopic Current Work
<teward> #link https://trello.com/b/U9HhWyT0/daily-ubuntu-server
 * dpb1 glares around the room at people who are asking teward to retype their stuff ;)
<teward> we've covered its and pieces on this, so unless anyone has anything to bring up here, I'll move on to the next subtopic
<teward> i'm not aware of anything else that needs discussed under current work, I'm assuming everyone's good with it so far.
<teward> #subtopic Release Bugs
<teward> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-aa-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<dpb1> hm
<dpb1> perf degredation of zfs clone
<teward> i was about to say heh
<dpb1> I guess I'll bring that up with stgraber
<dpb1> oh, he's here!
<teward> looking at the bug, it looks like it's fix-released in zfs-linux with Artful
<dpb1> right
<teward> but needs an lxd looksie.
<dpb1> looks like bookeeping and lxd tasks still remain, right
<dpb1> put in an action for me to follow up with stgraber about this one please
<dpb1> (I don't think I can do that)
<teward> #action dpb1 to check with stgraber for 'zfs clone' performance degredation in lxd.
<meetingology> ACTION: dpb1 to check with stgraber for 'zfs clone' performance degredation in lxd.
<teward> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/zfs-linux/+bug/1567557
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1567557 in lxd (Ubuntu Artful) "Performance degradation of "zfs clone"" [High,Confirmed]
<teward> of the other two bugs, one is fix-committed in Artful, with a merge from Debian.
<teward> and the other one doesn't appear to be fixed yet.
<ahasenack> looks like it needs a sponsor
<ahasenack> it has debdiffs attached
<stgraber> dpb1: what's needed on our side? cking found a workaround for this issue, pushed it to artful, pushed the SRUs and has a self-contained testcase for it which doesn't need LXD itself
<ahasenack> slashd: do you need to subscribe sponsors to #1693574?
<dpb1> stgraber: not sure?  it has lxd tasks on it
<teward> ahasenack: slashd isn't here right now, we can follow up with them.
<stgraber> dpb1: ah, we can close that then, there's nothing needed on the LXD side. I think it was back from when we were trying to track this down. Should have removed it once we provided a self-contained testcase for the zfs issue.
<dpb1> stgraber: great, then I think it would be finished
<teward> stgraber: I assume then the tasks for Xenial and Zesty are similarly able to be removed?
<teward> for now, i'll move on, since I think we're aware this isn't an issue anymore
<teward> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (slashd, ddstreet)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (slashd, ddstreet)
<teward> slashd isn't here, but had something he wanted to make note of
<teward> #info pcp MIR being worked on was NACK'd by Security Team; pcp upstream is looking at security note and seeing what they can do to satisfy requirements and needs for the security note
<teward> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pcp/+bug/1700827
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1700827 in pcp (Ubuntu) "[MIR] pcp package" [Undecided,New]
<stgraber> dpb1, teward: cleaned up the tasks
<teward> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-z-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<teward> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-x-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<teward> stgraber: +1, thanks!
<teward> it looks like we have a bunch of these bug tasks under us, anything in here we need to bring up other than what slashd mentioned earlier?
<teward> ddstreet: if you have anything to add?
<ddstreet> teward nothing to add from me
<teward> well I see one thing that I can close off of this list, nginx *was* updated to 1.10.2 heh.
<teward> alrighty, is there anything else to add here, from anyone?
<teward> ddstreet: thanks.
<teward> moving on.
<teward> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
<teward> #link https://jenkins.ubuntu.com/server/
<powersj> Last week revised the cloud-init kvm-backed integration tests. Played with feature flags in adding additional storage and networking devices as well. Reviewed all my open SRUs. Got jenkins instance upgraded to 100Gb of storage to avoid issues of running out of space.
<powersj> This week, spent time to review some metric reviews. Otherwise, will be spending time on cloud-init integration tests.
<teward> powersj: thanks for the update!
<teward> anyone else have anything for powersj and the QA team?
<powersj> *looks around for this team*
<teward> heh
<teward> moving on.  thanks, powersj.
<teward> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
<smb> Nothing really changed since last week. If there are no questions we could move ahead.
<teward> I've got no questions, any questions from anyone else?
<teward> whoops
<teward> moving on
<teward> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<teward> #link https://lwn.net/Calendar/Monthly/cfp/
<teward> #link http://www.open-zfs.org/wiki/OpenZFS_Developer_Summit
<teward> I'm not aware of anything specific on these calendars, though I know OpenZFS abstract and presentation proposal deadline is September 4th, if anyone has anything to add
<dpb1> nothing here
<teward> moving on.
<teward> unless anyone else has anything
<teward> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<teward> i'm not aware of any major events, though I will be representing Ubuntu and the Server Team at a FOSS event here focusing on open-source systems and server work in Harrisburg, PA next week that I only heard about yesterday.
<dpb1> #info A few of the canonical-server team will be sprinting Thursday/Friday this week, FYI.
<teward> thank you to my boss here at Penn State for letting me know of that :P
<teward> thanks dpb1
<ahasenack> nice
<dpb1> teward: that sounds cool
<dpb1> teward: know what you are going to present yet?  if anything?
<teward> dpb1: not sure yet, I know I've been invited but not sure if I've been given a presentation slot yet either
<teward> i'm keeping my eyes open for that, and am more than willing to entertain ideas to add to the presentation items, if they give me a slot.
<dpb1> ok
<teward> definitely going to have talking points as I'm one of the few Ubuntu guys there.  I know nginx is a hot topic in the local LUG, they recommended I bring some expertise and knowledge on that and Ubuntu as well
<dpb1> would be interested to hear how it goes afterward :)
<teward> i'll definitely share :)
<teward> anything else on the radar that anyone's aware of?
<teward> #info teward to attend Harrisburg, PA local FOSS event focusing on open-source systems, software, and server implementations.
<teward> dpb1: thanks for the FYI on the sprinting on Thursday and Friday.
<teward> moving on.
<teward> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<teward> Anyone got anything else for the meeting today?
<nacc> teward: nothing else here
<teward> i've got one thing to say, I'm working on automating my merging and nginx updating workflow a little, to help me along.  No ETA on that, it's still at the design stage, but it works with upstream version announcements for the most part.
<teward> i'll share when done :)
<nacc> nice
<teward> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<teward> #info Next meeting Tuesday, 2017-08-29 at 1600 UTC, chair will be rbasak
<teward> thanks for attending, everyone!
<teward> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Aug 22 16:37:20 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-08-22-16.01.moin.txt
<cpaelzer> thanks a lot teward, nice run!
<ahasenack> thanks teward, well done
<powersj> teward: thanks for hosting
<nacc> teward: thanks!
<teward> cpaelzer: thanks!
<teward> powersj: my pleasure!
<teward> nacc: you're welcome!
<dpb1> nice work teward
<dpb1> :)
<teward> thanks, dpb1!
<dpb1> until next time folks!
<teward> i'll do the post-meeting tasks in a bit
<teward> I have things for the next couple hours :P
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-08-24
 * slangasek waves
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Aug 24 15:02:51 2017 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e slangasek bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson rcj philroche Odd_Bloke tribaal fginther)
<slangasek> rcj rbalint bdmurray tdaitx fginther doko xnox slangasek mwhudson Odd_Bloke sil2100 tribaal infinity cyphermox philroche
<slangasek> rcj is out
<slangasek> rbalint is out
<slangasek> bdmurray:
<bdmurray> SRU team work
<bdmurray> uploaded apport to artful which gathers python version info LP: #1681528
<bdmurray> improved apport's python version information collection
<bdmurray> submitted/merged metrics PR re foundations_active_contributors.py job name
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1681528 in apport (Ubuntu Artful) "Include information about python versions" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1681528
<bdmurray> reported ipython quit bug LP: #1711741, forwarded to debian
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1711741 in ipython (Ubuntu) "quit in ipdb does not immediately exit the debugger" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1711741
<bdmurray> reuploaded fix for backuppc bug LP: #1612600
<bdmurray> resolved pylint issues with SRU age KPI PR, merged it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1612600 in backuppc (Ubuntu Xenial) "backuppc 3.3.1-2ubuntu3 breaks pool graphs on the Status page" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1612600
<bdmurray> resolved feedback re errors.u.c KPI, merged it
<bdmurray> submitted PR, merged of jenkins-job addition for errors.u.c KPI
<bdmurray> review of update-notifier livepatch support changes
<bdmurray> â done
<slangasek> tdaitx:
<tdaitx> * [HIGHLIGHT] OpenJDK 7 version 7u151-2.6.11-0ubuntu1.14.04.1 has been released for Trusty
<tdaitx> * Fixed FTBFS'es (LP: #1711478, LP: #1711026, ...)
<tdaitx> * Investigated and provided additional info on kernel regression affecting OpenJDK in i386 (LP: #1699772)
<tdaitx> * powerpc-utils SRU LP: #1692420
<tdaitx> * Investigating LP: #1710674
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1711478 in numactl (Ubuntu) "[FTBFS] arm does not define __NR_migrate_pages" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1711478
<tdaitx> (done)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1711026 in byobu "[FTBFS] byobu fails pep8 check with E722" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1711026
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1699772 in linux (Ubuntu) "linux-image-4.10.0-24-generic, linux-image-4.8.0-56-generic, linux-image-4.4.0-81-generic, linux-image-3.13.0-121-generic Regression: many user-space apps crashing" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1699772
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1692420 in powerpc-utils (Ubuntu) "[SRU] powerpc-utils commans exhibits "command substitution: ignored null byte in input" warning message" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1692420
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1710674 in openjdk-8 (Ubuntu) "Segmentation fault in os::write_memory_serialize_page " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1710674
<slangasek> fginther:
<tdaitx> probably need to improve my highlight
<fginther> * Short week for cloudy eclipse viewing
<fginther> * Testing and debugging a fix for a partner issue
<fginther> * Initial debug of another partner issue
<fginther> * Continued library development to facilitate automated publication
<fginther> done
<slangasek> tdaitx: btw, why was #1711478 a FTBFS you were looking at?  numactl had never built on armhf, so this wasn't a regression
<slangasek> doko:
<doko> - binutils SRU and gcc-5 SRU done
<doko> - reviewed openjdk-7 and openjdk-8 packages, uploaded
<doko> - some MIR processing
<doko> - binutils split reviewed, introducing binutils-for-host and binutils-for-build
<doko> - handling some IBM bug reports and uploads
<doko> (done)
<xnox> * s390-tools new upstream release
<xnox> * criu new upstream release (via probbing debian)
<xnox> * submitted patches for all default container packages to remove upstart jobs
<xnox> * fixing ifupdown removal fallout (still looking into openssh + networkd)
<xnox> * retrying migrations / troubleshooting migrations
<xnox> * s390 bug scrub with hws (frank is out)
<xnox> * âï¸ milan tomorrow, back at work on tuesday
<tdaitx> slangasek, hmm, there was a open bug on debian about it with a suggestion for a 'fix'
<tdaitx> slangasek, and, yeah, I didn't realized that it was _not_ a regression
<slangasek> tdaitx: right - how did you pick this ftbfs to work on? was this via qa.ubuntuwire.org?
<tdaitx> slangasek, exactly
<slangasek>  * short week, off for eclipsemas
<slangasek>  * working on minimizing images for hyperv
<slangasek>  * kernel SRU reviews
<slangasek>  * working through the Qt5.9 transition, hopefully landing this week (FF)
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek> tdaitx: ok.  would be good if we had clearer reporting :/
<slangasek> Odd_Bloke is off
<slangasek> sil2100 is off
<slangasek> Tribaal:
<Tribaal> * Fixed ubuntu-standalone-builder some (still some work to be done to be fully working again)
<Tribaal> * Vagrant image. Last tests under way for artful changes.
<Tribaal> * Vanguard stuff for the build system
<Tribaal> * Started looking at ubuntu-image to hopefully help on the work there next week.
<Tribaal> * Just got an iFixit toolbox. I'm super excited but it has nothing to do with work.
<Tribaal> â done
<slangasek> tdaitx: (the fact that the report doesn't show which ones are regressions)
<slangasek> infinity not here
<slangasek> cydizen:
<slangasek> heh
<slangasek> cyphermox:
<cyphermox> artful:
<cyphermox> - debugging grub2 chainloading issues
<cyphermox> - finished merging ubiquity-slideshow changes from Kubuntu
<cyphermox> - more console-setup small fixes / debugging wayland fails
<cyphermox> - netplan 0.26 release cutting/autopkgtests/last minute fixes
<cyphermox> - upload console-setup merge for 1.166
<cyphermox> xenial:
<cyphermox> - custom secure boot-enabled images testing
<cyphermox> (done)
<slangasek> and philroche
<philroche> - Short week for me last week
<philroche> - Cloud images automated promotion work
<philroche> - Cloud partner meetings and meeting prep
<philroche> (done)
<cyphermox> [HIGHLIGHT] netplan 0.26 release.
<slangasek> any questions over status?
<bdmurray> [HIGHLIGHT] apport gathering of python version information LP: #1681528
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1681528 in apport (Ubuntu Artful) "Include information about python versions" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1681528
<bdmurray> Python3Details: /usr/bin/python3.6, Python 3.6.2, python3-minimal, 3.6.1-0ubuntu3
<bdmurray> An example -^
<slangasek> \o/
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Incoming bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Incoming bugs
<slangasek> [LINK] http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-aa-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<bdmurray> Nothing new there
<slangasek> I believe I saw 1574670 on the trello
<slangasek> does that mean we should take it off incoming?
<bdmurray> Based off the last meeting I thought we committed to it so yeah.
<slangasek> ack
<slangasek> [LINK] http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-aa-tracking-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<bdmurray> I found this on the rls-aa-tracking in the unknown section
<bdmurray> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-argcomplete/+bug/1665314
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1665314 in python-argcomplete (Ubuntu Artful) "package python-argcomplete (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/bin/python-argcomplete-tcsh', which is also in package python3-argcomplete 1.7.0-0.1ubuntu1" [Medium,Confirmed]
<slangasek> [LINK] http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-aa-tracking-bug-tasks.html#unknown
<slangasek> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-argcomplete/+bug/1665314
<slangasek> universe package?
<slangasek> does it appear to be high impact?
<bdmurray> 27 people affected
<bdmurray> and 5 duplicates
<bdmurray> so a bit yeah
<slangasek> looks like mwhudson is til on python-argcomplete
<slangasek> maybe he wants to volunteer :)
<slangasek> (I'll subscribe him to the bug)
<bdmurray> okay
<bdmurray> Then there's also https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debian-archive-keyring/+bug/1685305
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1685305 in debian-archive-keyring (Ubuntu Artful) "Debian keys should not be trusted by default" [Undecided,New]
<slangasek> not a priority IMHO because that package isn't installed by default
<xnox> yeah
<xnox> me
<xnox> ... there is a card about it! =)
<xnox> probably me
<xnox> again
<bdmurray> Is that a package to which we should be subscribed?
<slangasek> no
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<cyphermox> yeah
<bdmurray> I'll be out next Wednesday travelling again.
<cyphermox> console-setup is waiting in proposed, britney needs to ignore the missing console-setup-freebsd; sorry
<cyphermox> unless somebody did that a minute ago already?
<slangasek> cyphermox: no, what needs to happen is an AA needs to delete the stale binary from -proposed
<slangasek> (NBS processing)
<cyphermox> well, that, then
<slangasek> (done)
<cyphermox> ta
<slangasek> but why did some AA approve that through NEW ;)
<tdaitx> slangasek, about numactl, should I close the bug report then?
<slangasek> tdaitx: I think we shouldn't carry an Ubuntu delta to enable numactl on armhf, fwiw
<tdaitx> ok, I provided the debdiff in the debian bug as well, so hopefully they might decide to carry it
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> going once...
<slangasek> going twice...
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Aug 24 15:26:50 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-08-24-15.02.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks, folks!
<tdaitx> thanks!
<mwhudson> slangasek: oh https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-argcomplete/+bug/1665314 is fixed now i think
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1665314 in python-argcomplete (Ubuntu Artful) "package python-argcomplete (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/bin/python-argcomplete-tcsh', which is also in package python3-argcomplete 1.7.0-0.1ubuntu1" [Medium,Confirmed]
<mwhudson> i wonder if i forwarded it to debian
<slangasek> mwhudson: ok, cool
<mwhudson> appears not
<mwhudson> oh well it builds fine in debian, the patch is just to get it building in lp
<mwhudson> still should send it along
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-08-20
<jdstrand> hi!
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Aug 20 16:43:49 2018 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<mdeslaur> \o
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<jdstrand> The generalist role rotation for this week as follows: CVE Triage: ebarretto, Bug Triage: msalvatore, Community: sarnold, Happy Place: amurray, mdeslaur, sbeattie, leosilva
<jdstrand> Thanks to Unit193 for help on security updates for the community supported cgit last week. This work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job! :)
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security Team is hiring!
<jdstrand> * Ubuntu Security engineer: https://boards.greenhouse.io/canonical/jobs/1158266?t=8c0a6c1f1
<jdstrand> * Ubuntu Security manager: https://boards.greenhouse.io/canonical/jobs/1278287?t=8c0a6c1f1
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> This week I plan to work on:
<jdstrand>  * brand store snap declarations
<jdstrand>  * big anbox-support review
<jdstrand>  * kubernetes-support interfaces
<jdstrand>  * various snapd PR reviews
<jdstrand>  * various internal tasks
<jdstrand>  * embargoed item
<jdstrand> I'll also proxy for amurray
<jdstrand> He says:
<jdstrand> "I'm in the happy place this week.
<jdstrand> This week I'm focusing on some internal work
<jdstrand> Will also be looking at updating ceph and then moving on to other reactive package updates"
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm in the happy place this week
<mdeslaur> I am working on two embargoed issues
<mdeslaur> and have a few things to finish before going on vacation
<mdeslaur> that's about it, sbeattie, you're up
<sbeattie> I'm also in the happy place this week.
<sbeattie> I've got the usual bit of kernel cve triage and signoffs to do.
<sbeattie> I'm still working on a bind9 update
<sbeattie> Oh, and I have an openjdk for bionic update to publish
<sbeattie> I'll try to pick up another update off the list
<sbeattie> There's also some apparmor upstream merge requests I need to review.
<sbeattie> That's probably it for me. jjohansen?
<jjohansen> I have to finish up with my LSS presentation, and spends time with LSM stacking this week.
<jjohansen> I'll sqeeze in some apparmor patch review, and maybe even some apparmor 3 patch revision.
<jjohansen> That should pretty much consume the week
<jjohansen> sarnold: you are up
<jdstrand> sarnold: stepped away for a moment. let's go to chrisccoulson
<jdstrand> s/://
<chrisccoulson> I plan to update spidermonkey in bionic this week
<chrisccoulson> I also want to get thunderbird 60 in the security PPA and tested, ready for the next release
<chrisccoulson> I need to fix an upgrade issue with the rust update I did last week
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: regression? something else?
<chrisccoulson> I should have enough time to take on some other stuff this week
<chrisccoulson> jdstrand, I think I just need to fix a Breaks / Replaces somewhere to make the update from the previous version work properly
<chrisccoulson> that's me done
<jdstrand> leosilva: you're up (note, Mike is out today so Eduardo after you)
<leosilva> ok
<leosilva> I'm in the happy place this week
<leosilva> I just finished wpa USN and I'm working on spice. Other than that I'll keep looking for other updates to do.
<leosilva> ebarretto: it's up to you
<ebarretto> I'm in the CVE triage this week:
<ebarretto> - I've done already some CVE triage for today and will continue on it for this week
<ebarretto> - I'm re-triaging some CVEs for ffmpeg
<ebarretto> - I will update other packages ... still to be decided.
<ebarretto> jdstrand, back to you
<jdstrand> thanks
<jdstrand> sarnold: chime in when you are back
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team suggests that contributors look into merging Debian security updates in community-supported packages. If you would like to help Ubuntu but are not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so. See http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/d2u/ for available merges and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details on preparing Ubuntu security
<jdstrand> updates. If you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-hardened. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tsimonq2> Found this on Twitter: https://ubuntusecuritypodcast.org/
<tsimonq2> It seems amurray is doing/did a podcast. :)
<jdstrand> tsimonq2: yes, that is from our esteemed Tech Lead, amurray :)
<tsimonq2> :D
 * jdstrand hugs amurray for doing the podcast
<tsimonq2> Just thought I'd mention it on the record.
<jdstrand> tsimonq2: yes, thank you. we definitely want that noted :)
 * sarnold returns
<tsimonq2> #link https://ubuntusecuritypodcast.org
<tsimonq2> Does that work?
<tsimonq2> hmm
<tsimonq2> [LINK] https://ubuntusecuritypodcast.org
<tsimonq2> Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<tsimonq2> Whatever. :)
<sarnold> I'm on community this week, working down the MIRs, still reading the gtk portal backend
<sarnold> jdstrand: /me chimes
<jdstrand> sarnold: hehe, thanks :)
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, chrisccoulson, leosilva, ebarretto, tsimonq2: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Aug 20 17:02:57 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-08-20-16.43.moin.txt
<tsimonq2> Thanks!
<sarnold> thanks jdstrand, tsimonq2 :)
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
<leosilva> tks jdstrand!
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-08-23
<sil2100> o/
<philroche> \o
<cyphermox> o/
<juliank> o/
<xnox> \o
<cyphermox> slangasek: ?
<cyphermox> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Aug 23 15:13:53 2018 UTC.  The chair is cyphermox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<cyphermox> #topic Lightning rounds
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
<cyphermox> echo $(shuf -e slangasek bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson rcj philroche Odd_Bloke fginther juliank)
<cyphermox> Odd_Bloke slangasek philroche doko rbalint bdmurray infinity rcj juliank mwhudson tdaitx fginther sil2100 cyphermox xnox
<Odd_Bloke> NOOOOOOO
<cyphermox> sorry
<Odd_Bloke> * On vacation last week
<Odd_Bloke> * Playing catch-up
<Odd_Bloke> * Completed reintroduction of root tarballs in bionic and cosmic (LP: #1585233)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1585233 in cloud-images "Provide -root.tar.xz for bionic and later" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1585233
<cyphermox> first shuffle got me first, and it would have looked rigged.
<Odd_Bloke> * Interviewing candidates
<Odd_Bloke> * Partner-facing work
<Odd_Bloke> (done)
<Odd_Bloke> slangasek:
<Odd_Bloke> Who presumably isn't here, else he'd be running the meeting.
<Odd_Bloke> philroche:
<philroche> * Final L1TF image publication
<philroche> * Cloud image build system development
<philroche> * Cloud image build system vanguard
<philroche> (done)
<Odd_Bloke> doko:
<Odd_Bloke> (Is on vacation?)
<xnox> ill
<sil2100> Mathias mentioned something he'll not be able to attend the meeting today
<cyphermox> rbalint: ?
 * juliank goes
<juliank> * apt security fixes for CVE-2018-0501 (https://mirror.fail)
<ubottu> The mirror:// method implementation in Advanced Package Tool (APT) 1.6.x before 1.6.4 and 1.7.x before 1.7.0~alpha3 mishandles gpg signature verification for the InRelease file of a fallback mirror, aka mirrorfail. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2018-0501)
<juliank> * some apt bug triage, closing about 50 bugs (~9%)
<juliank> * answered questions from slashd about apt (bug 1788486)
<ubottu> bug 1788486 in landscape-client (Ubuntu Bionic) "apt behaviour with strict dependencies" [Undecided,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1788486
<juliank> * spent hours figuring out how to boot grub on ppc64el to reproduce bug 1785859 (was easy in the end, but hard to find instructions...), but found the fix, prepared a patch and sent it upstream (just some uninitialized variables.... https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/grub-devel/2018-08/msg00074.html) merge proposal and SRU soon
<ubottu> bug 1785859 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "[REGRESSION] ppc64el grub in bionic may be auto-generating MAC address instead of using the assigned to the VM." [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1785859
<juliank> * verified fix for gpgme1.0 bug 1762384
<ubottu> bug 1762384 in gpgme1.0 (Ubuntu Bionic) "libgpgme-dev installs libgpgme-pthread.so in /usr/lib/${DEB_HOST_MULTIARCH}, literally" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1762384
<juliank> * further discussions re frontend locking and trying to figure out the fix for that for aptdaemon
<juliank> (done)
<cyphermox> tdaitx: ?
<cyphermox> fginther: ?
<juliank> ANYONE?
<xnox> sil2100, ?
<sil2100> uh oh!
<cyphermox> Bueller?
<sil2100> - Shorter week because of holidays last week
<sil2100> - Still melting here
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases (big queue due to holidays)
<sil2100> - ubuntu-image:
<sil2100>   * Did a preliminary review of the --filesystem PR
<sil2100>   * Made u-i smart by making the qemu-user-static dep optional
<sil2100>   * Re-released 1.4 to cosmic, pushed to bionic and xenial
<sil2100> - core:
<sil2100> - Kernels:
<sil2100>   * Some emergency kernel releases + re-reviews of current cycles
<sil2100>   * Figuring out the shanky ADT handling, getting rid of some blocking NBSes
<sil2100>   * Some help here and there in the absence of Andy
<sil2100>   * 4.15 kernel releases
<sil2100> - Updated google-cloud-sdk to 212.0.0
<sil2100> - Investigating some update-github-jobs failure spamming
<sil2100> - Small fixes to the security-britney instance to make it finally reliable
<sil2100> - Some familiarizing with the ubuntu-release-upgrader an update-manager code
<sil2100> (done)
<cyphermox> - shim-review: Cisco, CentOS.
<cyphermox> - resubmitted shim 15 snapshot for signature by MS
<cyphermox> - merging grub from Debian
<cyphermox> - testing grub2 with lockdown
<cyphermox> shim-review matrix42
<cyphermox> - rework initramfs-tools bionic SRU (0.130ubuntu3.3):
<cyphermox>   - remove verification-failed patch for RESUME
<cyphermox>   - add ZFS fix (LP: #1661629) from John Gallagher
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1661629 in initramfs-tools (Ubuntu) "upgrade of kernel fails with mkinitramfs: failed to determine device for /" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1661629
<cyphermox> (done)
<xnox> * working on systemd regressions, should finally migrate
<xnox> * working on s390x updates - tools, cryptsetup, systemd
<xnox> * did tiny uploads for the qt transition
<xnox> * uploading fixes for usr-merge, unlikely to flip it on for cosmic (not enough stuff is tested or fixed yet, in debian)
<xnox> * marked an interview task
<xnox> * monday is UK bank holiday, so short week next week
<xnox> (done)
<cyphermox> skipping over the incoming bug triage, we don't seem to be quorate
<cyphermox> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<cyphermox> anything?
<cyphermox> if you're not here, raise your hand.
<juliank> not from me! ;)
<cyphermox> in the event of a missing Steve, who wants to chair next?
<cyphermox> don't all speak at once ;P
<cyphermox> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Aug 23 15:26:19 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-08-23-15.13.moin.txt
<sil2100> I can!
<cyphermox> sil2100:  ;)
<sil2100> ME ME
<cyphermox> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cyphermox/meetings/foundations.html
<sil2100> Sweet
<cyphermox> (I will finally remove tribaal from the shuffle)
<sil2100> Chris will always be a part of our team, at least deep in our hearts
<cyphermox> sil2100: btw, this is just javascript doing the shuffling, no need to actually run a command in a terminal
<sil2100> cyphermox: oh, convenient! Thanks ;)
<tribaal> hi cyphermox :)
<cyphermox> tribaal: suup. ears ringing?
<tribaal> hehe
<tribaal> thanks sil2100 :)
<tribaal> <3 <3 <3
<tribaal> (unless that was sarcasm, in which case, I bite by thumb at you :P )
<tribaal> oh, I killed the mood, sorry all
<sil2100> Never sarcasm!
<sil2100> tribaal: we're missing you! How's it going? ;)
<tribaal> Fine thanks! Still working from home, and the new gig is fun (there is some overlap of concerns - we've been busy patching for intel stuff as I suspect you all have as well :) )
<sil2100> hah, oh yes we did ;)
<tribaal> I bet :) I remember the last drill
<elopio> /buffer 6
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-08-20
<cpaelzer> hiho
<cyphermox> hello
<cyphermox> doko: jdstrand: didrocks:
<cyphermox> ok didrocks is not going to be there
<cyphermox> cpaelzer: I started looking at the bugs earlier, we have a few open
<cyphermox> libheif is still in the list for Security to review
<cyphermox> rygel I just assigned to the Desktop team (needs at least a chnge in Recommends, it's trivial, but also a look at some XML code)
<cyphermox> gupnp-dlna I would have to look at the comments more to figure out what the next steps are
<cpaelzer__> oh
<cpaelzer__> cyphermox: am I back
<cpaelzer__> vpn issues today keep on troubling me :-/
<cpaelzer__> there is an older MIR on gupnp-dlna
<cyphermox> cpaelzer__: ok
<cpaelzer__> didrocks reviewed and they decided to punt it to next cycle
<cpaelzer__> have you talked about that in the past?
<cpaelzer__> as it was later reopened what seems to be a community member?
<cpaelzer__> I think we should set https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gupnp-dlna/+bug/1785649 back to incomplete
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1785649 in gupnp-dlna (Ubuntu) "[MIR] gupnp-dlna" [Undecided,New]
<cpaelzer__> what do you think?
<cyphermox> I haven't stalked about it gain with the team
<cyphermox> let's ask seb.
<cyphermox> (I will)
<cpaelzer__> ok
<cyphermox> ah, and I will re-review libbluray
<cpaelzer__> the other one open is libheif
<cyphermox> cpaelzer__: still in security review
<cyphermox> cpaelzer__: anything on your side for server?
<cpaelzer__> nothing new
<cpaelzer__> we have a few on securities queue
<cpaelzer__> but nothing new opened/closed
<cyphermox> ok
<cpaelzer__> aynthing from you that needs help?
<cyphermox> I had opened ec2-instance-connect, it needs help probably
<cpaelzer__> I had reviewed that
<cyphermox> but best check with fginther or someone in CPC
<cyphermox> yeah
<cpaelzer__> as well as security
<cpaelzer__> and I have learned that rbasak has reviewed it before it was a MIR
<cyphermox> but since I opened it and did the packaging maybe it's best if I don't go review that one
<cyphermox> yes
<cyphermox> AFAIK those are all known issues, but it's how that package works :/
<cpaelzer__> IMHO until at least the major issues are addressed there isn't mcuh to do on our side
<cyphermox> yeah ok
<cpaelzer__> fginther should be the right one for driving this via the contact to the upstream authors
<cyphermox> yep
<cyphermox> okay then, I guess we're through the list
<cpaelzer__> cyphermox: also the packaging wasn't the big issue
<cyphermox> no, I know
<cpaelzer__> yeah I'm ok for this week
<cyphermox> the scripts are special.
<cpaelzer__> "special" ... nicely put
<doko> ouch, forgot ...
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-08-22
<cyphermox> o/
<juliank> o/ hakuna matata
<cyphermox> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Aug 22 15:02:00 2019 UTC.  The chair is cyphermox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<cyphermox> #topic Lightning rounds
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
<cyphermox> echo $(shuf -e vorlon bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson juliank waveform)
<cyphermox> xnox infinity bdmurray tdaitx vorlon rbalint doko mwhudson cyphermox juliank sil2100 waveform
<cyphermox> xnox1:
<cyphermox> bdmurray:
<bdmurray> adjusted nbs-report to check for rdeps with alternate dependencies
<bdmurray> approached desktop team regarding mlocate seed changes
<bdmurray> abolished automatic upgrade testing from Ubuntu 18.10
<bdmurray> added automatic upgrade testing from Ubuntu 18.04 to Ubuntu 19.04
<bdmurray> alerted jibel about venonat-upgrade being down
<bdmurray> acquired knowledge on how to resolve venonat-upgrade being down
<bdmurray> aided IS in looking at retracing queue size
<bdmurray> accepted packages into -proposed and -updates (SRU work)
<bdmurray> attended Ubuntu SRU team meeting
<bdmurray> â done
<bdmurray> tdaitx:
<xnox> hello
<tdaitx> short week: got back from vacation on Monday
<tdaitx> * drank the e-mail fire hose
<tdaitx> * read product sprint notes
<tdaitx> * checked errors.u.c for possible regressions on openjdk-8/-11 security releases
<tdaitx> * openjdk PR to automatically set minimum jtreg version dependency based on upstream requirements
<xnox> =)
<tdaitx> * openjdk PR to improve autopkgtests and to use default-java
<xnox> hhmmmmm
<tdaitx>   - tested changes on openjdk-11 and openjdk-12
<tdaitx> * syncing openjdk autopkgtests changes between openjdk-11 and openjdk-8
<xnox> hello
<tdaitx> Other:
<tdaitx> * waiting for LP: #1838098 to be released
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1838098 in Snapcraft "snapcraft prime fails if it finds an invalid ELF file" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1838098
<tdaitx> (done)
<tdaitx> xnox: yeah, it is working
<cyphermox> vorlon:
<vorlon>  * proposed-migration (a lot)
<vorlon>  * python-pandas unwinding+removal
<vorlon>  * ia32 community process planning
<xnox> bug #1840670
<vorlon> (done)
<ubottu> bug 1840670 in amd64-microcode (Ubuntu Bionic) "amd64-microcode better initramfs hook" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1840670
<xnox> bug #1840419
<ubottu> bug 1840419 in Ubuntu on IBM z Systems "[Ubuntu] 18.04.3 - CKR_SIGNATURE_INVALID, CKR_FUNCTION_FAILED when running the rsa_tests from opencryptoki 3.9.0 on the ICA token" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1840419
<xnox> bug #1840420
<ubottu> bug 1840420 in Ubuntu on IBM z Systems "[UBUNTU] 18.04.3 - hash verification error with SHA-512 HMAC running the opencryptoki digest_tests on the ICA token" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1840420
<xnox> bug #1823157
<ubottu> bug 1823157 in Ubuntu on IBM z Systems "[19.10 FEAT] zlib compression improvements" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1823157
<xnox> s390-tools catch up with master for v5.3
<xnox> bug #1736705
<ubottu> bug 1736705 in Ubuntu on IBM z Systems "[19.10 FEAT] openssl: SIMD implementation of chacha20" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1736705
<xnox> bug #1736704
<ubottu> bug 1736704 in Ubuntu on IBM z Systems "[19.10 FEAT] openssl: SIMD implementation of poly1305" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1736704
<xnox> systemd upload to catch up with bionic-proposed-unapproved
<xnox> DONE
 * xnox is kind of ready for the feature freeze
<doko> - LLVM update to 9
<doko> - one more round of GCC/binutils updates
<doko> - looked into Python3 optimization settings, not yet foinished
<doko> - some merges
<doko> - openjdk merge request reviews
<doko> (done)
<cyphermox> netplan release 0.98
<cyphermox> preparing SRUs for netplan
<cyphermox> ffmpeg/libvpx transition
<cyphermox> pyyaml proposed-migration
<cyphermox> looking into grub2 bugs - chainloader for bootctl + Windows arm64
<cyphermox> set up a lab for openvswitch in openstack (netplan dev)
<cyphermox> (done)
<juliank> me?
<juliank> * synced packagesearch 2.7.11
<juliank> * released apt 1.9.3 and synced it
<juliank> * uploaded update-manager with https for changelogs.ubuntu.com to xenial (LP: #1744318)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1744318 in update-manager (Ubuntu Xenial) "changelogs.ubuntu.com should be using HTTPS" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1744318
<juliank> * ported dir2ogg to Python 3
<juliank> * merged wpa 2.9
<juliank> * [in git] some fun work on version patterns for apt
<juliank> * [in git] fix d/m/... suffixes for apt daily timeouts (LP: #1840995)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1840995 in apt (Ubuntu) "check_stamp() function of apt.systemd.daily should not assume interval is a number" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1840995
<juliank> (done)
<cyphermox> #topic Release incoming bugs (eoan)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Release incoming bugs (eoan)
<cyphermox> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ee-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<bdmurray> bug 1837934 has no importance
<ubottu> bug 1837934 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "There is no warning to remove install media when rebooting" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1837934
<cyphermox> I swear this shows up again every release
<cyphermox> and we fix it every release
<bdmurray> I thought it was the pressing enter does nothing bug that shows up all the time
<vorlon> did we talk about this one last week?  finalrd?
<cyphermox> well, pressing enter not working or the message not appearing at all, it's all finalrd-related
<xnox> does plymouth reopen console.....
<cyphermox> did we talk about this one in particular, I though it was something else last week
<xnox> i guess i should look into ubiquity boot & shutdown
<cyphermox> xnox: plymouth was doing the right thing before; this has to do with casper
<cyphermox> probably some changes, and/or virtualbox being as useful as it usually is
<cyphermox> (pressing enter / showing the prompt has always been an issue in virtualbox)
<xnox> cyphermox:  well yeah, casper + live-build
<xnox> cause i am thinking maybe the casper in eoan is at fault here (or well, my fault)
<bdmurray> okay, we should card it right?
<xnox> yes
<bdmurray> I'll do so then.
<cyphermox> ok, that's it for this one then?
<bdmurray> for ee? yes
<cyphermox> #topic Release incoming bugs (bionic)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Release incoming bugs (bionic)
<cyphermox> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<bdmurray> I ran across bug 1778684 the other day
<ubottu> bug 1778684 in man-db (Ubuntu) "man: command exited with status 4" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1778684
<cyphermox> I guess it's kinda late to be looking at those, though
<bdmurray> cyphermox: late? we can still SRU stuff
<cyphermox> sure, late for the point -rlease I mean
<bdmurray> lets go ahead and card that, it'll likely only need fixing for 18.04
<cyphermox> ack
<cyphermox> #topic Team proposed-migration report
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<cyphermox> #link http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
<bdmurray> xnox: did you look into the systemd SRU / KEY_RFKILL stuff?
<cyphermox> mea culpa, still working on pyyaml, and libvpx is also still in progress
<cyphermox> oops
<bdmurray> bug 1740894
<ubottu> bug 1740894 in OEM Priority Project bionic "KEY_RFKILL is not passed to userspace" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1740894
<bdmurray> I thought you'd mentioned talking to somebody about that last week but I could be misremembering. Let's move on.
<cyphermox> so; proposed migration
<cyphermox> who was going to look at pandas?
<vorlon> working on it
<cyphermox> oh ok
<cyphermox> libheif still MIR
<vorlon> I have a new pandas in -proposed which drops python-pandas, but which also FTBFS for unrelated reasons
<xnox> bdmurray:  thanks, will ping people about that now.
<cyphermox> ok
<xnox> vorlon:  pandas are bad!
<vorlon> (it was ftbfs due to various build-dep changes before I started touching it)
<vorlon> To: people@country.cn\nSubject: I think these are yours come fix them
<cyphermox> debhelper when?
<cyphermox> *then
<vorlon> someone should volunteer
<vorlon> someone who's not wrestling pandas
<doko> I don't like wrestling, the winner is always known ... pandas ;)
<vorlon> well I'm making progress, I've gotten down from 80,000 test failures due to new upstream pytest, to 3 test failures due to wtf
<cyphermox> I'll do debhelper/plasma-framework
<cyphermox> sqlite?
<cyphermox> any takers for stuff in general, pls volunteer, kthxbai
<vorlon> I think if there are no volunteers, the chair should pass them out
<cyphermox> mmkay
<cyphermox> glib2.0 is a maintained by both us and Desktop, no?
<cyphermox> lsb: I recall xnox showed an interest in it previously
<vorlon> almost all of these are going to be hunting down / hinting autopkgtest regressions
<cyphermox> I'll do sqlite3, sphinx
<cyphermox> openssh: doko wanna have a look?
<vorlon> that's a test failure blocking glib2.0, should just be rolled into that one
<cyphermox> alright
<cyphermox> lxml: bdmurray?
<vorlon> and yes, glib2.0 comaintained w/ desktop, so we should put somebody on it
<cyphermox> yes
<doko> cyphermox: I committed not doing any general distro work until EOY
<bdmurray> cyphermox: okay
<cyphermox> juliank: please look at python-setuptools
<juliank> whoa
<juliank> that shouldn't break like that
<cyphermox> tdaitx: cmake and squashfs-tools, please
<tdaitx> cyphermox: ack
<cyphermox> tdaitx: think you can also do python-packaging?
<juliank> fwiw, I feel like We should have autoremoval on regression for leaf packages
<xnox> doko:  https://launchpadlibrarian.net/438541409/buildlog_ubuntu-eoan-amd64.systemd_240-6ubuntu11_BUILDING.txt.gz
<seb128> cyphermox, vorlon, glib deprecated some api and the deprecation warnings in some libraries makes since unhappy, part of it is fixed in the new gnome/poppler stack waiting upload so I would wait for that to land before starting to debug those problems
<tdaitx> cyphermox: yeah, I can take a look at it as well
<seb128> makes *things* unhappy
<cyphermox> seb128: thanks, you're chiming up at the right time, I was about to assign
<cyphermox> seb128: keep us posted, and we'll help debugging?
<xnox> doko:  https://launchpadlibrarian.net/438541409/buildlog_ubuntu-eoan-amd64.systemd_240-6ubuntu11_BUILDING.txt.gz
<cyphermox> I think that's about it, we'll jsut needs to turn all this into cards now
<seb128> cyphermox, sounds good, thx
<cyphermox> #topic Chair selection for next meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Chair selection for next meeting
<cyphermox> I nominate...
<cyphermox> crap, randomizer fell on mwhudson
<cyphermox> tdaitx: you win!
<tdaitx> \o/
<cyphermox> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<cyphermox> any other biz?
<vorlon> nothing here
<cyphermox> alright, time's up
<cyphermox> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Aug 22 15:45:46 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2019/ubuntu-meeting.2019-08-22-15.02.moin.txt
<cyphermox> thanks everyone!
<tdaitx> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-08-18
<cpaelzer> o/
<cpaelzer> #startmeeting Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Aug 18 14:31:09 2020 UTC.  The chair is cpaelzer. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic:
<didrocks999> hey
<cpaelzer> jamespage: didrocks999: ddstreet: sarnold: doko (is away) - ping to start
<cpaelzer> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<cpaelzer> Old ACTION - cpaelzer to ask Steve how to fastpath font packages without subscriptions
<cpaelzer> I have done that and he agrees with Doko that at least a subscriber must be present - but not the full process
<cpaelzer> I ammended our entry at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionProcess?action=show&redirect=MIRTeam#Font_Packages to reflect that
<cpaelzer> TL;DR - font packages with pure data need no MIR process, but a subscriber then an AA can promote
<didrocks> (as I was away: was there any argument against the last font package, it was just waiting on the subscription IIRC)?
<cpaelzer> no argument against it
<cpaelzer> just waited on the subscription
<cpaelzer> but we used the chance to formalize this aspect
<didrocks> ack
<cpaelzer> another action of last week(s) was around khronos-opencl-clhpp
<cpaelzer> seb_128 could you carry https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/khronos-opencl-clhpp/+bug/1636728 to the Desktop Team meeting then to sort out who should subsceribe now
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1636728 in khronos-opencl-clhpp (Ubuntu) "[MIR] khronos-opencl-clhpp" [Undecided,Fix released]
<cpaelzer> seb_128 agreed (we said and have seen the same last week) - but since the old owner was ubuntu-x it would be Dekstop to punt it over to kernel
<cpaelzer> seb was so kind to help last week, this week didrocks = seb128 :-)
<cpaelzer> And welcome back :-)
<cpaelzer> So didrocks, did this reach the team and will it be handled?
<didrocks> I did ping seb128 before going on holidays, he says he will track it because he was unsure the desktop team should be the subscriber
<cpaelzer> oh yeah
<cpaelzer> we agreed to that
<cpaelzer> we did that, we did again with seb and so on
<cpaelzer> but someone has to do the nudging of the kernel team to take it (as they own the package depending on it)
<didrocks> so, itâs all handled it seems, no? I donât see it on mismatch
<cpaelzer> oh did it vanish
<cpaelzer> well let's do mismatches
<didrocks> looks like it :)
<cpaelzer> then we will see
<didrocks> yeah
<cpaelzer> until then the rest will have woken up - re-ping jamespage: ddstreet: sarnold:
<cpaelzer> #topic current component mismatches
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: current component mismatches
<cpaelzer> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg
<cpaelzer> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.svg
<sarnold> good morning
<cpaelzer> didrocks: no it still is in mismatches-propsoed
<cpaelzer> there are still plenty of things we know to be on jamespage shoulders to clarify for the openstack context
<cpaelzer> and there is a golang explosion as well
<didrocks> I donât see it :/
<cpaelzer> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg
<cpaelzer> to the right of cups and left of lintian
<didrocks> itâs khronos-opencl-clhpp here between cups and lintian
<cpaelzer> didrocks: which is the package I asked the desktop team to punt to the kernel
<didrocks> cpaelzer: ah, sorry I was still on the font package from 3 weeks ago
<cpaelzer> :-)
<cpaelzer> no that one is done
<didrocks> so, we were not talking about the same thing
<didrocks> sorry :)
<cpaelzer> np
<cpaelzer> the de-confusion is what the meegin is for
<didrocks> hehe, right
<cpaelzer> take a look at the MIR that is linked and help to resolve it beofre next week if that is ok for you
<didrocks> will do
<didrocks> do we know about the golang-google-api, what is pulling it?
<didrocks> (ack, the other one was the bug you subbed me but I didnât manage to catch that back up still)
<cpaelzer> u-boot, lintian was for foundations,  paramiko/masakari  were on james page
<cpaelzer> what is left are the golang things for google*
<cpaelzer> didrocks: it seems the source is gce-compute-image-packages
<didrocks> that would make sense
<cpaelzer> this was also mentione din the +1 reports
<cpaelzer> for archive cleanup
<cpaelzer> I know that at least rbalint and mwhudson touched bits of it on +1 duty
<cpaelzer> at least one will be in our list of new bugs
<cpaelzer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/google-guest-agent/+bug/1891929
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1891929 in google-guest-agent (Ubuntu) "[MIR] google-guest-agent" [Undecided,New]
<cpaelzer> we will catch that in the next sub-topic
<didrocks> Iâm happy to have a look at that one ^
<cpaelzer> that would be perfect
<cpaelzer> we have assigned a bunch last weeks and everyone was pretty busy getting those donw
<cpaelzer> didrocks: could you tkae an extra look if that is related (or not) to the golang-google-api that shows up
<didrocks> cpaelzer: sure
<cpaelzer> thanks
<didrocks> if we need it, then, weâll have a tree of golang packages to look at :p
<cpaelzer> next week we are nearing feature freeze there we need to bring those up as bugs
<didrocks> yeah
<cpaelzer> we might need to open bugs and assign to teams to decide if they want to own or kill the dependency
<cpaelzer> so understanding the source of the deps would be awesome
<didrocks> Iâll have a look, I have some spare time for that this week
<cpaelzer> ok, at least no other issue in mismatches than those
<cpaelzer> #topic New MIRs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: New MIRs
<cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=NEW&assignee_option=none&field.assignee=&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<cpaelzer> well we just assigned https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/google-guest-agent/+bug/1891929
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1891929 in google-guest-agent (Ubuntu) "[MIR] google-guest-agent" [Undecided,New]
<cpaelzer> I'll do so on the bug
<cpaelzer> all the oem-* things are special cased
<didrocks> I thought no MIR were required?
<cpaelzer> next normal one is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sane-airscan/+bug/1891682
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1891682 in sane-airscan (Ubuntu) "[MIR] sane-airscan" [High,New]
<cpaelzer> didrocks: the OEM things need a bug to document and the AAs to check a defined set of constraints
<cpaelzer> no MIR process on these
<didrocks> ack
<cpaelzer> do you think you could also tkae on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sane-airscan/+bug/1891682 didrocks?
<didrocks> will be a busy MIR week, but letâs do that before FF :)
<cpaelzer> thanks
<cpaelzer> #topic Incomplete bugs / questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Incomplete bugs / questions
<cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<cpaelzer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tlp/+bug/1888656
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1888656 in OEM Priority Project "[MIR] tlp" [Critical,Triaged]
<cpaelzer> I handled this one
<cpaelzer> all it needs is a team subscriber
<cpaelzer> This is filed by xnox for the OEM team
<cpaelzer> so I'm unsure if I need to nudge foundations or Desktop
<cpaelzer> but other than the subscription the case is ready
<cpaelzer> didrocks: do you happen to know if that would be desktop?
<didrocks> IIRC seb128 was not really in favor of it being desktopish
<didrocks> as itâs a foundation request
<cpaelzer> I don't mind either way, but someone has to step up to own it before promotion
<didrocks> agreed
<cpaelzer> I made it clear enough on the bug
<cpaelzer> so no action here
<cpaelzer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ipp-usb/+bug/1891157
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1891157 in golang-github-openprinting-goipp (Ubuntu) "[MIR] ipp-usb" [High,Incomplete]
<didrocks> yeah, you already made it clear on the bug
<cpaelzer> I did that one as well (the ipp-usb portion)
<didrocks> so, on that one, Till was looking at well for a subcriber other than him (on the go binding) :)
<cpaelzer> I identified additional dpeendencies and wanted an ack that Desktop (this time the requester) really wants to own all three packages
<didrocks> I would say, same, let him sort it out
<cpaelzer> yeah we need the team
<cpaelzer> as I satetd on the bug
<cpaelzer> please get a full Team to subscribe to the package
<didrocks> yep
<cpaelzer>   The printing team (https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-printing) is the perfect
<cpaelzer>   team to actually handle things here and is subscribed already (thanks), but
<cpaelzer>   you'd (in addition) need a full team to subscribe - ubuntu-desktop in this
<cpaelzer>   case I guess as fallback for e.g. vacations or any other complex issue you
<cpaelzer>   can't deal with alone.
<cpaelzer> until then  - incomplete
<didrocks> sounds perfect to me :)
<cpaelzer> and for the chance that it will be dropped I refuse to sit down for many hours reviewing the others and forcing the security Team to do the same
<cpaelzer> finally https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libonig/+bug/1889248 I handled two tasks in there
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1889248 in mdevctl (Ubuntu) "[MIR] mdevctl, jq, libonig" [Undecided,New]
<cpaelzer> one is left open and doko assigned, but he is off for a while
<cpaelzer> so it will wait
<cpaelzer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/usbguard/+bug/1816548 also had some activity
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1816548 in usbguard (Ubuntu) "[MIR] usbguard" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<cpaelzer> It seems everyone would like to have it, but no one wants to own it
<cpaelzer> I guess I made that clear on the bug - no need to action here
<cpaelzer> that is it with the list
<didrocks> just read your comment, itâs clear to me
<cpaelzer> you see I was reviewing a lot this week :-)
<cpaelzer> #topic Any other business?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Any other business?
<didrocks> yeah, you were quite busy as I see :)
<cpaelzer> We are getting closer to FF and we can see the expected spike of MIRs
<cpaelzer> I might slightly complain that ddstreet and sarnold haven't said a word but most likely they are on PTO as well
<cpaelzer> I'm out of topics for today
<didrocks> those people still connected on IRC during holidaysâ¦ :)
<sarnold> I've said "good morning" :)
<cpaelzer> hehe
<cpaelzer> and I'm guilty of reading over it without my brain enabled
<cpaelzer> hi sarnold o/
<cpaelzer> I'm looking forward to insihgt on the golang-* chaos in mismatches next week
<sarnold> hey cpaelzer :)
<didrocks> hey sarnold, I missed your good morning as well :)
<didrocks> yeah
<cpaelzer> sarnold: did you get to the review we assigned two weeks ago?
<sarnold> cpaelzer: no :( I'm sorry
<sarnold> hey didrocks :)
<cpaelzer> please feel stared on by whoever requested it to get to it :-)
<cpaelzer> but we are not yet on that much delay that we need to panic on it
<cpaelzer> sarnold: for the log - do you have a lik which one that was?
<cpaelzer> link
<didrocks> door ringing brb
<didrocks> otherwise, see you next week!
<sarnold> cpaelzer: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libinih/+bug/1883890
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1883890 in libinih (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libinih" [Undecided,New]
<cpaelzer> thanks sarnold
<xnox> cpaelzer:  re:tlp => yeah we were not sure, if it would fit into any existing subscriber teams. Or if we need a new one something like "oem" "desktop-oem" "commercial-engineering" or some such.
<xnox> and add it properly into the team reports etc.
<cpaelzer> xnox: ok, thanks for the info - so it seems the discussion is ongoing and once resolved someone will own it
<cpaelzer> once that happens it can be promoted to main then
<xnox> because for example if all of our certified laptops stop using tlp, we'd want to drop it from main, and I don't know if foundations has visibility on that per se.
<xnox> cpaelzer:  ack.
<cpaelzer> agreed xnox
<cpaelzer> so that closes our "misc" section
<cpaelzer> end of the meeting coming unless there is anything you want to bring up ...
 * xnox missreads libinih as libnih, and i'm like "libnih should be dead by now"
<sarnold> xnox: heh, I did the same so many times already..
<cpaelzer> me as well
<cpaelzer> ok, thanks everyone !
<cpaelzer> until next week with many reviewed MIR bugs then
<xnox> MIR review please rename package due to PTSD
<cpaelzer> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Aug 18 15:01:09 2020 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-08-18-14.31.moin.txt
<sarnold> thanks cpaelzer and didrocks :)
<sarnold> didrocks: btw your website hasn't been online the last few days, someone was trying to get some zsys docs -- does your website go away when you log off? :)
<didrocks> sarnold: ahah, I moved to a new house
<didrocks> sarnold: this was my "holidays"
<didrocks> as Iâm self-hostedâ¦
<didrocks> Iâm currently on 4G, so no fixed IP, I moved it this morning to canonistack in between and it should be back on line
<sarnold> didrocks: aha! :) congratulations ;)
<didrocks> thx :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-08-20
<sil2100> o/
<waveform> o/
<bdmurray> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Aug 20 15:01:44 2020 UTC.  The chair is bdmurray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<bdmurray> #topic Lightning rounds
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
<bdmurray> echo $(shuf -e vorlon bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity mwhudson juliank waveform slyon)
<bdmurray> mwhudson sil2100 bdmurray vorlon tdaitx doko waveform juliank infinity rbalint xnox slyon
<bdmurray> sil2100: you win!
<sil2100> OH NO
<sil2100> Ok
<sil2100> - Was off on Monday
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - Kernel SRUs
<sil2100> - Last week: 18.04.5 and 16.04.7, UC18
<sil2100> - Building UC16 candidates, preparing appliance images for promotion
<sil2100> - Tweaks on the delivery system for gadget snaps
<sil2100> - Interviews
<sil2100> - Pi desktop-related discussions
<sil2100> - Eoan EOL
<sil2100> - Investigating UC18 kassel image issues, no luck so far
<sil2100> (done)
 * juliank is near real-town Kassel
<bdmurray> updated metarelease files for point releases
<bdmurray> helped testing nodejs packages for -proposed migration
<bdmurray> reported juju bug LP: #1891561
<bdmurray> uploaded new upstream version of python-gmpy2 to Ubuntu and Debian
<bdmurray> reviewed and merged fix for LP: #1611737
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1891561 in juju "Openstack empty string filtering breaks Juju network selection" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1891561
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1611737 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Focal) "Can't upgrade from a release if ros packages are installed from ROS servers" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1611737
<bdmurray> reported friendly-recovery bug LP: #1891952
<bdmurray> sync'ed pycairo from debian to fix FTBFS issue
<bdmurray> uploaded zope.interface fixing FTBFS
<bdmurray> investigation into LP: #1798369
<bdmurray> uploaded apt-clone fix for LP: #1858326
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1891952 in friendly-recovery (Ubuntu) "systemd-resolved not started when networking enabled" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1891952
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1798369 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Reinstall Ubuntu (with preserving existing data) shows error message due to "Could not get lock /target/var/cache/apt/archives/lock"" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1798369
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1858326 in apt-clone (Ubuntu Focal) "apt-clone crashed with AttributeError in __main__: module 'lsb_release' has no attribute 'get_lsb_information'" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1858326
<bdmurray> updated cleanup-NBS-for-EOL for new britney output
<bdmurray> Eoan EOL work
<bdmurray> putting out fires ð¥
<bdmurray> â done
<bdmurray> vorlon:
<vorlon> hmm move me to the end please
<vorlon> tdaitx: ?
<tdaitx> - tested binaries and ran autopkgtest for xz-utils stuck in focal-proposed; rerun failed apt/armhf autopkgtest
<tdaitx> - local setup for running jck snap in a lxc container
<tdaitx> - reviewed need for remote agent as docs & config have ambiguous descriptions
<tdaitx> - fixing scilab: rebuilding deps, backporting patches from groovy
<tdaitx> (done)
<juliank> 620335
<juliank> 256388
<juliank> bad yubikey
<xnox> bug #256388
<ubottu> bug 256388 in python2.5 (Ubuntu) "strange recursion with help() on python" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/256388
<xnox> bug #620335
<ubottu> bug 620335 in linux (Ubuntu) "xv video output not work on GeForce 6100 with nouveau driver" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/620335
<juliank> I think doko is off, so it's waveform's turn
<xnox> waveform:  ?
<waveform> * Investigated eth dhcp issue on core20; unable to reproduce (LP: #1878640)
<waveform> * Bluetooth testing on core (re LP: #1890817)
<waveform> * Fixed EGL/GLES issue in pending userland package (LP: #1891613)
<waveform> * Investigated lapack migration (unsuccessfully)
<waveform> * ubuntu-image work for devices and pi image building
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1878640 in netplan.io (Ubuntu Groovy) "uc20 image on pi often cannot get ip addr via eth0 on first boot of run mode" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1878640
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1890817 in livecd-rootfs (Ubuntu Groovy) "Request to include pi-bluetooth in raspi images" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1890817
<waveform> * pi-gadget work
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1891613 in raspberrypi-userland (Ubuntu) "libraspberrypi0 not installable" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1891613
<waveform> * Testing USB boot modes on pi4
<waveform> (done)
<juliank> aug 20:
<juliank> * sponsored python-gmpy2 NMU to Debian for bdmurray (debian bug 965001)
<ubottu> Debian bug 965001 in src:python-gmpy2 "strange version 2.1.0 beta4 fails tests with mpfr4 4.1.0" [Serious,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/965001
<juliank> * grub bug triage
<juliank>   - booting 32-bit kernels on 64-bit UEFI is no-no
<juliank>   - a laptop that can't find our grub -> firmware broken, can't find nvme device
<juliank> * SRUed grub to focal (not gonna list the bugs again)
<juliank> * fixed memtest86+ in groovy, and SRUed to focal: Close FD 3 when invoking update-grub (LP: #1876506)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1876506 in os-prober (Ubuntu Focal) "eoan to focal upgrade hangs when lvm snapshot is present" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1876506
<juliank> * talked with Laney about OEM stuff
<juliank> (done)
<bdmurray> rbalint is out
<bdmurray> xnox:
<xnox> progressing with needrestart work on cloud/server
<xnox> microcode-initrd source-new accepted! hooray, now waiting for bin-new
<xnox> started libffi 8.1.0 abi snapshot builds in bileto ppa with cet enabled
<xnox> uploaded secureboot-db into unapproved for all the series
<xnox> followed up on tlp MIR
<xnox> progressing with safer grub-install with built-in rollbacks
<xnox> positive test feedback for finalrd for core16 (needs finalrd backports)
<xnox> done
<bdmurray> lucas is out
<bdmurray> #topic Release incoming bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Release incoming bugs
<bdmurray> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-gg-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<vorlon> oh ok I won't give my status then, it was boring anyway ;)
<bdmurray> that's your perogative
<bdmurray> bug 1891952
<ubottu> bug 1891952 in friendly-recovery (Ubuntu) "systemd-resolved not started when networking enabled" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1891952
<bdmurray> I ran into this when my laptop wouldn't boot with the new systemd
<bdmurray> Well I couldn't get an x-session
<bdmurray> I should retest this with the old systemd so will
<mclemenceau> I will card this
<bdmurray> bug 1892040
<ubottu> bug 1892040 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Focal) "US keyboard layout even if a non english language is selected in ubiquity-dm" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1892040
<bdmurray> Is this a duplicate of the card we took the other day?
<vorlon> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1875062
<vorlon> L?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1875062 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Focal) "[20.04] Keyboard layout not enabled immediately during installation when typing username/password" [High,Triaged]
<vorlon> ?
<bdmurray> That's the one of which I'm thinking
<cpaelzer> mclemenceau: hi I made it out of the other calls - if I might interrupt in which section do I want to talk about mine?
<mclemenceau> it's coming soon cpaelzer
<bdmurray> well let's card this and comment in the existing card about this bug
<mclemenceau> ok carded!
<bdmurray> bug 1891623
<ubottu> bug 1891623 in gcc-10 (Ubuntu) "Can't build Libreoffice with gcc-10, always ends with a Segmentation Fault in the build or resulting binaries" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1891623
<bdmurray> I guess we should take this
<Laney> Heather's trying to reproduce
<bdmurray> Okay so can we let it wait Laney?
<Laney> would be good if d_oko or whoever and Heather could work together
<bdmurray> d_oko is out for a while
<Laney> ah ok
<xnox> Laney:  yeah, ideally we'd want preprocessed source of a "small" binary (if there is any), the binary, and the coredump / traceback?
<Laney> I know
<Laney> but the first step is reproducing it at all
<xnox> and yes d o k o is out for 2 weeks =/
<Laney> come back to it next week
<bdmurray> Will do thanks
<bdmurray> Okay cpaelzer its your turn
<cpaelzer> hehe
<cpaelzer> thanks
<mclemenceau> I tagged this one this morning bug 1892358 not showing on the report yet
<ubottu> bug 1892358 in systemd (Ubuntu) "autopkgtest success rate dropped inhibiting proposed migration" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1892358
<cpaelzer> I was this morning trying to catch rbalint for systemd autopkgtest fail-rate
<cpaelzer> but learned that he's unavailable atm
<cpaelzer> thanks mclemenceau for the bug
<cpaelzer> I only wnated to ask if someone here could take a look so that we have a second opinion
<xnox> cpaelzer:  that looks like a normal / good pass rate
<xnox> i mean, it used to be way worse
<cpaelzer> xnox: 10/10 last tests failed
<cpaelzer> if that is normal I maybe should change expectations :-)
<cpaelzer> I just want to avoid retrying on aveagre ~20 times per test per arch
<xnox> at one point i spent more than a year with migrating systemd based on a superset of multiple test runs.
<xnox> i.e. there tests passed in this run, that test pasted in that run, and that one i will try to fix next time.
<xnox> and next time something else regressed.
<xnox> i agree with the sentiment.
<cpaelzer> yeah, but for now in groovy we have to do something
<cpaelzer> "tests-in-lxd" and "systemd-fsckd" droped below an acceptable rate
<xnox> however we just landed new upstream release, and it usually does regress a lot.
<cpaelzer> I remember xnox last time you worked on itit was fsckd as well and boot-smoke or something like that
<xnox> fsckd one is being fixed in bileto already, that was assigned and was worked last week / this week.
<cpaelzer> xnox: yes 246 seems to have made it worse
<xnox> lxd => is related to snapd & networkd regressions that are being fixed in snapd
<xnox> so there are things that are known and worked on too.
<cpaelzer> fsckd of the last three days are all bad, does this fix need to land first?
<cpaelzer> do you have a bug on the snapd/network bug I could track?
<juliank> g
 * juliank typo
<cpaelzer> initially all I asked was "are these knowns and are there bugs I could track" to if you know them let me know the urls
<xnox> cpaelzer:  please stand by whilst i try to find those two fixes
<bdmurray> cpaelzer: if xnox gives you bugs / something to watch will you be happy?
<xnox> cpaelzer:  https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3801 has fixes for fsckd & networkd
<xnox> cpaelzer:  see https://objectstorage.prodstack4-5.canonical.com/v1/AUTH_39a8dbb93caf4ec889f8a1b7f69885db/bileto-3801/2020-08-20_11:08:36/groovy_systemd_packaging_changes.diff
<xnox> which should improve/fix/resolve the lxd & fsckd tests.
<xnox> bug 1886886
<ubottu> bug 1886886 in systemd (Ubuntu) "Plymouth 0.9.5 release" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1886886
<xnox> and
<cpaelzer> bdmurray: for now yes, if this takes too long we all will want some interim fixes - but for now I'm fine
<xnox> bug 1891716
<ubottu> bug 1891716 in systemd (Ubuntu) "Networking broken after systemd update" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1891716
<bdmurray> cpaelzer: okay, then we will move on and leave your bug open for next week
<xnox> cpaelzer:  i mean i could tag them "update-excuse" but that will not make them pop up on the test results of reverse deps?
<cpaelzer> thanks bdmurray and xnox
<bdmurray> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<bdmurray> bug 1891641
<ubottu> bug 1891641 in debconf (Ubuntu) "package unattended-upgrades 2.3ubuntu0.1 failed to install/upgrade: installed unattended-upgrades package post-installation script subprocess returned error exit status 1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1891641
<juliank> duplicate
 * juliank searches bug
<juliank> https://launchpad.net/bugs/1627564
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1627564 in Ubuntu "Debconf crash due to assertion failure in ensure_surface_for_gicon [gtkiconhelper.c:493] (when png loader is missing/during upgrades)" [High,Confirmed]
<bdmurray> that's that for FF then
<bdmurray> so next
<bdmurray> #topic FTBFS with gcc-10
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: FTBFS with gcc-10
<xnox> re FTBFS bugs in GG
<xnox> klibc	2.0.7-1ubuntu5	â	i386 (F) â Log	amd64 (F) â Log	armhf (F) â Log	arm64 (F) â Log	ppc64el (F) â Log	s390x (F) â Log		PTS BTS	doko	N
<xnox> hfsplus	1.0.4-15	â		amd64 (F) â Log	armhf (F) â Log	arm64 (F) â Log	ppc64el (F) â Log	s390x (F) â Log		PTS BTS	juliank	N
<xnox> nfs-utils	1:1.3.4-2.5ubuntu5	â		amd64 (F) â Log	armhf (F) â Log	arm64 (F) â Log	ppc64el (F) â Log	s390x (F) â Log		PTS BTS	juliank	N
<xnox> golang-1.13	1.13.8-1ubuntu1	â				arm64 (F) â Log				PTS BTS	mwhudson	RM
<xnox> golang-1.14	1.14.4-1ubuntu2	â				arm64 (F) â Log				PTS BTS	mwhudson	N
<xnox> syslinux-legacy	2:3.63+dfsg-2ubuntu9	â		amd64 (F) â Log						PTS BTS	mwhudson	RM
<xnox> glibc	2.31-0ubuntu10	â			armhf (F) â Log	arm64 (F) â Log			1714514 1571684	PTS BTS	rbalint	N
<xnox> logrotate	3.14.0-4ubuntu4	â		amd64 (F) â Log	armhf (F) â Log	arm64 (F) â Log	ppc64el (F) â Log	s390x (F) â Log		PTS BTS	rbalint	N
<xnox> pexpect	4.6.0-3	â		amd64 (F) â Log					1891193	PTS BTS	slyon	N
<xnox> efivar	37-2ubuntu4	â		amd64 (F) â Log	armhf (F) â Log	arm64 (F) â Log				PTS BTS	tdaitx	N
<xnox> pyparted	3.11.2-11.1build1	â		amd64 (F) â Log	armhf (F) â Log	arm64 (F) â Log	ppc64el (F) â Log	s390x (F) â Log		PTS BTS	tdaitx	N
<xnox> lapack	3.9.0-2	â					ppc64el (F) â Log		1708735	PTS BTS	xnox	N
<xnox> netkit-ftp	0.17-34.1build1	â		amd64 (F) â Log	armhf (F) â Log	arm64 (F) â Log	ppc64el (F) â Log	s390x (F) â Log		PTS BTS	xnox	N
<vorlon> make it staaaaahp
<xnox> db5.3	5.3.28+dfsg1-0.6ubuntu2	â	i386 (F) â Log	amd64 (F) â Log	armhf (F) â Log	arm64 (F) â Log	ppc64el (F) â Log	s390x (F) â Log		PTS BTS	xnox	N
<xnox> not what i wanted!
<xnox> klibc
<xnox> hfsplus
<xnox> nfs-utils
<xnox> golang-1.13
<xnox> golang-1.14
<xnox> syslinux-legacy
<xnox> glibc
<xnox> logrotate
<xnox> pexpect
<xnox> efivar
<xnox> pyparted
<xnox> lapack
<xnox> netkit-ftp
<xnox> db5.3
<xnox> are still to do
<tdaitx> libstd was fixed on debian, already synced to groovy
<tdaitx> I have a backport for a gcc-10 for pyparted
<tdaitx> have a broad look at efivar
<xnox> tdaitx:  tah
<xnox> and we have assignees to fix those, please do that.
<xnox> bdmurray:  next?!
<bdmurray> Are there people that need to hand things off given schedules next week?
<juliank> i don't know!
<juliank> I'm 50% gone
<xnox> juliank:  you have
<xnox> hfsplus
<xnox> nfs-utils
<juliank> It sounds ok, I suppose
<juliank> we'll see
<juliank> :)
<bdmurray> okay moving on
<bdmurray> #topic Team proposed-migration report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Team proposed-migration report
<vorlon> [LINK] https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
<vorlon> looking much better this week :)
<vorlon> lapack, blocked by an autopkgtest on a revdep
<vorlon> sil2100: would you like this?
<sil2100> Sure!
<vorlon> google-compute-engine-oslogin is rbalint's
<waveform> I've got lapack at the mo
<sil2100> ...then I guess not!
<sil2100> ;)
<xnox> but there is also lapack ftbfs
<vorlon> oh was this carry-over?
<xnox> so it's all three of us?
<sil2100> waveform: continue working on it then, thanks o/
<vorlon> sil2100: you're off the hook
 * sil2100 won for the second time today
<vorlon> pam is mine because assigned to me for ftbfs, but I'm not messing with the autopkgtests on the current version in -proposed because I'm prepping a new upstream version for Debian
<vorlon> dnspython: sil2100: you can have this one
<vorlon> gdbm: autopkgtest failure on i386, this one's never been investigated since we made i386 compat-only
<vorlon> would anyone like to take a look at this or is it going to default to me like all the i386 stuff? :)
<vorlon> oh I uploaded it
<vorlon> so it defaults to me anyway ;)
<xnox> i was gonna say.....
<sil2100> vorlon: okay!
<vorlon> ok gdbm is mine
<vorlon> sensible-utils: bdmurray?
<xnox> on slyon? the sync was his request to fix ftbfs
<vorlon> plymouth vs systemd, rbalint already has a fixed staged for that AIUI
<bdmurray> inconceivable!
<vorlon> xnox: which one?
<xnox> autodep8 was mine, but i am failing to comprehend why ti's failing.
<xnox> vorlon:  slon => sensible-utils
<vorlon> ok, sensible-utils to slyon, not bdmurray
<vorlon> xnox: do you want to keep it or hand it off?
<xnox> so i want to give up autodep8 to someone else please
<vorlon> autodep8: bdmurray?
<bdmurray> okay
<vorlon> libgitlab-api-v4-perl: tdaitx?
<tdaitx> ok
<juliank> (that's a merge of bash-completion FWIW)
<vorlon> lintian: juliank?
<juliank> (libgitlab-api-v4-perl)
<juliank> yeah
<juliank> I need to talk to lintian folks about that anyway
<vorlon> dput: xnox?
<juliank> it also fails in normal lxd containers
<xnox> ok
<vorlon> actually
<vorlon> that's really setuptools
<vorlon> xnox: you ok to take setuptools?
<xnox> i thought +1 was bootstrapping lintian to be fair
<xnox> vorlon:  sure
<vorlon> sqlite3
<juliank> dput is .. just a timeout
<Laney> I am bootstrapping lintian, I am not dealing with the autopkgtest failure or the component-mismatch atm
<xnox> ah, ok, thanks.
<juliank> (in some cleanup hook)
<vorlon> juliank: ok if lintian is no work for you because Laney, can you take sqlite3?
<Laney> noooo, please keep the autopkgtest at least :p
<vorlon> oh :)
<vorlon> then who wants sqlite3?
<vorlon> I think everyone's been assigned one
<vorlon> so who's hungry for seconds
<juliank> So lintian is fine, but sqlite3 is that a gcc-10 bug?
<Laney> (the MIR you can reply to my question in #-release to determine if there's work required)
<juliank> /tmp/autopkgtest.4tqIue/build.vxn/src/debian/tests/run-unit-tests: line 29:  1275 Illegal instruction     (core dumped) hyphy "$i"
<xnox> hyphy is a pile of code that is fragile, it could be hyphy buggy too
<juliank> move on?
<vorlon> and that's the list
<vorlon> bdmurray:
<bdmurray> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<juliank> I'm mornings-mostly next week
<juliank> And DebConfing
<juliank> I don't how distracting DebConf online will be
<xnox> and LinuxPlumbers
<bdmurray> So bug 1798369 I've heard some comments that we should get rid of this and I'd like some reasons
<ubottu> bug 1798369 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Reinstall Ubuntu (with preserving existing data) shows error message due to "Could not get lock /target/var/cache/apt/archives/lock"" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1798369
<juliank> There are bugs every release cycle about it and nobody really gives it much testing
<bdmurray> which it though? The restore packages option or the whole reinstall option?
<juliank> restore packages
<juliank> I want to keep $HOME, but not try to reinstall packages that were installed
<xnox> so, restoring packages indeed doesn't quite make sense
<juliank> maybe save an apt-clone tarball in /var/log
<xnox> restoring snaps might, but i don't know if we preserve /var/lib/snapd
<bdmurray> hey let's not make new features!
<bdmurray> Okay, I'll discuss with the desktop team about removing the restore packages option.
<bdmurray> anything else?
<bdmurray> okay, thanks everybody
<bdmurray> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Aug 20 15:54:33 2020 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-08-20-15.01.moin.txt
<juliank> o/
<sil2100> o/
<vorlon> thanks!
