#ubuntu-mobile 2007-10-29
<HappyCamp_laptop> started work on Wiki for us. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-Boston/Mobile
<HappyCamp_laptop> We are using Gobby, to colloborate.
<HappyCamp_laptop> People should install gobby and then run the app under Applications->Internet->Gobby
<HappyCamp_laptop> Connect to gobby.ubuntu.com and please change the default color from the light blue to some other light background color.
<bspencer> mdz, mjg59  do you guys know if Ken wimer is coming to UDS?
<mdz> bspencer: he's here, he was in the desktop round table this morning
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-10-30
<lool> Is MIC in a bzr branch on our side?  I couldn't find one and would like to do some changes
<bspencer> Mithrandir, ping
<bspencer> Mithrandir, who should I talk to about getting a GL-enabled xephyr for the target?
<bspencer> (   http://dodji.blogspot.com/2007/10/xephyr-xvideo-and-gl-has-landed.html   )
<Mithrandir> bspencer: bryce, probably
<lool> Mithrandir: Can you please pull from http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lool/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.hardy ?
<lool> Mithrandir: Or add moblin-applets to the mobile seed
<Mithrandir> lool: sure
<lool> Mithrandir: Thanks
<Mithrandir> I just... need to get my gpg setup working here.
<HappyCamp_2> agoliveira: ping
<lool> HappyCamp_2: He's speaking!
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-10-31
<bazhang> wondering if Ubuntu-mobile will work on the eeepc (eeeuser.com)
<bazhang> I see the Kojinsha sh6 (sp?) but not the eeepc; any chance that will added later--similar intel chipset I believe.
<bazhang> oops in the wiki
<nrp> sh6 and the others are A100/A110, arent they?
<nrp> eee is a celeron
<bazhang> you're right. is that a problem?
<bazhang> too powerful?
<nrp> no idea, theyre both x86.  not sure if they use the same/similar northbridges though
<nrp> does the a110 even have a northbridge? or is it all integrated into the cpu?
<bazhang> got me there--though the wiki does state this will possibly work on other i386 
<nrp> ah, has anyone tried it?
<bazhang> I'll do it, as soon as they have some packages--currently waiting for a Debian live installer in the next couple of days.
<HappyCamp_2> StevenK: a favor? :)
<HappyCamp_2> The pyinotify package:  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pyinotify/0.7.0-2ubuntu1/+build/364671
<StevenK> HappyCamp_2: Name?
<StevenK> Um
<StevenK> HappyCamp_2: Name it?
<HappyCamp_2> I'm waving at you
<HappyCamp_2> We need a slight modification to the package to make it lpia.
<bspencer> HappyCamp_2: python-inotify and gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad-multiverse  ?
<HappyCamp_2> bspencer: yep
<bspencer> I just read cathy's email.  
<bspencer> you're doing that?
<HappyCamp_2> StevenK: what does "bad-multiverse" mean in "gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad-multiverse"
<HappyCamp_2> Is it a screwed up package?
<StevenK> HappyCamp_2: Nope.
<HappyCamp_2> bad license?
<StevenK> HappyCamp_2: Firstly, -multiverse points to the fact that due to licensing, it's in multiverse.
<HappyCamp_2> that I think I got, the bad was the confusing part
<StevenK> HappyCamp_2: Secondly, -bad is from upstream. Gstreamer upstream declares codecs they support as good, bad, and ugly. Good is it's well supported, Bad is it's okay-ish supported, and Ugly is if it breaks, you get all of the pieces
<HappyCamp_2> Ah, okay.  I was maybe thinking "bad" was some debian/ubuntu declaration.  Thanks for clarifying StevenK 
<StevenK> HappyCamp_2: No problem
<HappyCamp_2> Sciri: what do you get if you run the command: sudo smartctl -d ata -a /dev/sda | grep 193
<HappyCamp_2> I was reading this, that was slashdotted.  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/acpi-support/+bug/59695
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 59695 in acpi-support "default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks (dup-of: 17216)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] 
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 17216 in acpi-support "Hard drive spindown should be configurable" [High,Fix committed] 
<Sciri> HappyCamp_2: I'm on VMWare on the Mac. ;) A mandatory SMART command failed: exiting. To continue, add one or more '-T permissive' options.
<Sciri> HappyCamp_2: I do however have my SMART stats on the Mac side...
<HappyCamp_2> Sciri: then I doubt it would apply to you then.
<Sciri> HappyCamp_2: Yeah, elmo had me check the Mac side of things last night to compare Mac stats to Ubuntu stats.
<lool> StevenK: It's the other way around: -bad are the really bad plugins which either are broken or have major issues to promote them; ugly is for plugins which have distribution issues but are otherwise fully ok (work fine, has documentation, etc.) such as being GPL
<StevenK> Ah ha
<bspencer> smagoun:  can you give me the URL for your email mockup again?
<smagoun> bspencer: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded  . Scroll down to the "Example UIs section"
<bspencer> thx
<HappyCamp_2> instability = pain
<HappyCamp_2> bspencer: 
<bspencer> HappyCamp_2: 
<lool> bspencer: 
<HappyCamp_2> lool: I have a patch for x264 can you check it out?
<lool> HappyCamp_2: Sure
<lool> I don't know whether I can upload to multiverse, but I guess so?
<lool> HappyCamp_2: If it's an upstream fix, I can push it upstream actually and down to Ubuntu via Debian
<HappyCamp_2> http://moblin.pastebin.org/6605
<HappyCamp_2> lool
<HappyCamp_2> Okay, I'm not sure which one it is.
<HappyCamp_2> It is in the x264 package.
<lool> Ok
<HappyCamp_2> I don't think it is a major change, but the package failed to build in lpia.
<lool> I'm fixed it in the Debian SVN (well it's an unofficial repo)
<HappyCamp_2> lool thanks :)  So how long would that take to propogate to Ubuntu?
<lool> It wont propagate to Ubuntu via Debian like I thought first as it's not in Debian officially; I'll prepare an upload to Ubuntu now
<HappyCamp_2> lool, excellent!
<HappyCamp_2> bspencer: do you have an email that you are checking from your Ubuntu system?
<HappyCamp_2> bspencer: s/email/email address/
<bspencer> I'm currently in Windows going through my mail. 
<bspencer> After I boot back into Ubuntu I don't have mail acces
<bspencer> s
<HappyCamp_2> bspencer: I was thinking maybe you had a gmail or something account that you could use
<HappyCamp_2> anyway I sent email to you intel.com account just now.
<bspencer> yeah.  I do if you want to send it to chefebe at gmail
<bspencer> though you'll have to tell me to check it because it is just a spam account now
<HappyCamp_2> check you intel email :)
<lool> HappyCamp_2: It's in
<HappyCamp_2> lool, thanks so is that allowed to go into Gutsy? 
<HappyCamp_2> Since it didn't even build at all in Gutsy.
<lool> HappyCamp_2: No, I uploaded to hardy; technically that's perhaps important enough a bug to be allowed in a SRU, but "multiverse" makes it much less likely to be and a SRU is a lot of work
<HappyCamp_2> :(  bspencer see what lool said?
<HappyCamp_2> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/x264
<smagoun> bspencer: I moved a couple documents about mobile UIs to the ubuntu wiki:
<smagoun> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UMEGuide/DesigningForFingerUIs
<smagoun> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UMEGuide/ImprovingUserExperience
<smagoun> They're linked from https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UMEGuide
<bspencer> Mithrandir: lool   I want to create a new blueprint for mobile
<bspencer> I go here: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/
<bspencer> and click "add blueprint" button.  How do I associate it with mobile though?
<Mithrandir> subscribe ubuntu-mobile to it
<bspencer> ah, thx
<bspencer> Mithrandir: participatieon essential ?
<Mithrandir> no
<Mithrandir> that's going to make the scheduler explode
<amitk> HappyCamp_2: ping
<HappyCamp_2> amitk: here
<HappyCamp_2> rob_moblin: thinking about having the meeting here.
<robr> HappyCamp_2: OK
<HappyCamp_2> amitk: ??
<amitk> robr_ubuntu: hello
<HappyCamp_2> Okay we got robr and amitk
<HappyCamp_2> I think tonyespy was interested too
<tonyespy> i'm here
<robr> so what's the issue
<amitk> so the discussion was about getting moblin patches into Ubuntu
<amitk> currently, the patches are dpatches and commits do more than one thing
<robr> amitk: you should have the latest patches now for the ones i know about except the following:
<amitk> robr_ubuntu: I don't have the latest patches from anyone
<amitk> I just know they are in the moblin tree
<robr> psb gfx, pierre's sdio stack, and a fix up for the hd audio on C0
<robr> amitk: why do you say that?
<amitk> robr_ubuntu: 1. They are in dpatch format.
<tonyespy> could i jump in for a second and try to explain?
<amitk> sure
<tonyespy> there are a couple of issues, but the main one that i see is that patches are not being pushed and/or pulled on a regular basis from moblin to ubuntu
<tonyespy> thus, the mobile biz unit has had to build custom kernels
<robr> tonyespy: when we have patches for you to take we always push them
<tonyespy> with individual patches pulled from moblin
<robr> tonyespy: which patches?
<tonyespy> sdio, marvel8688, alsa...
<tonyespy> some of them were pushed, but when the patches were updated, they weren't necessarily pushed again
<robr> tonyespy: we will not push marvell's drivers, you need to get them from marvell
<robr> the sdio stack is still under development, when it's stable we will push it
<tonyespy> we've still needed to grab fixes to the sdio stack for our 'customer'
<robr> we've purposed not pushed the sdio stack because it's still under thrash from development
<tonyespy> for instance there was an update to the sdio patch that allowed the sd memory cards and the marvell wifi to work at the same time
<tonyespy> amit and/or happycamp_2 is mike frey around???  he should be involved in this conv, and perhaps bob as well...
<robr> tonyespy: i think that's a special case, that was on the mss stack which we're trying NOT to develop on any long and trying to work on getting Pierre's new sdio stack production ready
<HappyCamp_2> Mike is not here.
<amitk> tonyespy might know. I am not in the same room
<tonyespy> neither am i.  ;)
<robr> tonyespy: we won't push drivers until we consider them stable enough to be pushed, mss is what we're trying to get away from
<HappyCamp_2> To me it sounds like the main problem is that there is a lack of communication on what is going on between intel, amit, and canonical lexington.
<tonyespy> understood, however we're stuck in the middle trying to manage customer expectations...
<tonyespy> yup
<HappyCamp_2> Should we add a kernel sync up portion to the weekly ubuntu-mobile meeting that Mithrandir and davidm run?
<HappyCamp_2> Just to make sure that people know what is going on?
<HappyCamp_2> Thoughts?
<tonyespy> that might be useful...
<robr> tonyespy: i think it's perfectly reasonable to have you guys pull from our tree while we're doing development -- with better communication
<amitk> perhaps we should have a temp tree that can contain these patches so that the lexington team can support customers
<davidm> HappyCamp_2, we could but I'm planning on canceling the meeting this week.
<robr> amitk: you do, it's called moblin.org ;-)
<tonyespy> ;)
<HappyCamp_2> davidm: I'm suggesting for future meetings.  
<amitk> robr_ubuntu: that is the problem. Because you use the dpatch mechanim, we can't directly pull from your tree... it requires manual massaging
<HappyCamp_2> robr but he doesn't like the dpatches.
<robr> the meeting agenda item is a good idea, but the meeting time is bad for me -- it would be better if it was at 10am
<HappyCamp_2> amitk: what would you like instead of that?
<amitk> plain patches 
<HappyCamp_2> Maybe we can do something different, though ultimately up to robr
<HappyCamp_2> robr thoughts?
<amitk> ideally, I would like to be able to just do a git pull from the moblin tree. Currently that's just not possible.
<robr> i'm trying to understand why the dpatches are an issue, if you just strip off the header you've got a plain patch-- seems like there's more to it than that
<tonyespy> i *think* the issue is that the ubuntu kernel git tree has patches directly applied, whereas moblin stores patches as individual dpatches, therefore it's harder to diff and/or pull between the two trees
<tonyespy> is that right amit?
<amitk> robr_ubuntu: it means exporting the patches manually, stripping off the header, applying to our tree for every relevant commit
<amitk> and then if you do an update, it is rinse, wash, repeat
<amitk> it would be nice to be able to just say git cherry-pick <sha> from your tree instead
<robr> amitk / tonyespy : we're not going to move to a system where we commit our patches directly to the kernel -- we'll always have patch files
<HappyCamp_2> robr why is that?
 * HappyCamp_2 is clueless on kernel development
<robr> HappyCamp_2: because it's bad form -- i want the pristine source to remain pristine and to be able to keep track of what patches have been applied to the pristine sources
<HappyCamp_2> robr but doesn't git allow you to do that?
<robr> HappyCamp_2: not when you have tons of commits on top of commits
<HappyCamp_2> amitk: any thoughts on that?
<amitk> <sigh> what can I say? Can you atleast notify us of 'beta' patch updates to the aforementioned subsystems? I don't want to be polling the moblin kernel for changes.
<tonyespy> along  the same lines as amit...from my Pov, one of the other things that's difficult is knowing when a patch has been updated in the moblin tree; especially when the name of the patch doesn't change...
<suihkulokki> As a complete outsider, I'd also be interested in finding out how to use git to maintain a patchset the same way one can with quilt (or dpatch, but dpatch sucks:P)
<amitk> robr_ubuntu: FWIW, that IS the job of a revision control system.... to track history
<robr> amitk: what we can do better is give you patches that work with your kernel tree, which we've been doing in the past. both alek and jacob have given you guys patches that are specific to your tree
<tonyespy> robr: yes, a revision system tells you history, but only if you ask
<tonyespy> typically an SCS is setup with email notifications...
<HappyCamp_2> amitk: I know that I am not a git expert and I am not sure if robr is either.  Maybe we don't know about features in git that would enable us to satisfy robr's desire of being able to have the pristine and all the patches.
<HappyCamp_2> But also enable you to cherry-pick the patches.
<amitk> robr_ubuntu: yes.. that would make it easy. I haven't received patches from them in a long time though. Not after the original enablement patches.
<amitk> HappyCamp_2: no you can't do that.
<robr> amitk: that's because we've not really had anything we consider ready to give to you
<HappyCamp_2> robr, so I guess they want to know what we are doing even if we don't think it is ready for them.
<tonyespy> yes
<robr> right, we need better communication
<HappyCamp_2> So we should try to have a status notification and let them make the decision if they want the stuff or not.
<robr> so let's start with an update now, right here
<tonyespy> sure
<amitk> robr_ubuntu: Then I guess, the only disagreement is what you think is READY. Since the guys in Lexington could use even beta-class improvements,  we would appreciate knowing about updates to the thermal, SDIO, SD8686,  patches
<amitk> tonyespy: did I miss anything?
<robr> HappyCamp_2: can they subscribe to the check-in email list -- that would give them notification of changes immediatly
<tonyespy> i think we're on top of SD8686, it's a whole other saga...
<tonyespy> cool
<HappyCamp_2> amitk: So I think we will try to update you on changes, at least once a week, on what we are doing, in whatever form the patches are.  Is that agreeable robr?
<HappyCamp_2> robr, yes they can.  http://www.moblin.org/mailman/listinfo/
<robr> MSS is dead, we're trying to switch to Pierre's stack -- Feng has been at Marvell this week working with them to integrate their driver on Pierre's stack -- their sd8688 driver is still not gpl'd
<HappyCamp_2> https://www.moblin.org/mailman/listinfo/commits
<HappyCamp_2> But that is ALL commits at moblin.org.
<robr> also you guys can always ask me on irc if you have questions
<HappyCamp_2> personally I think a little kernel update during davidm meeting or in the status report sent weekly to ubuntu-mobile would be good too.
<robr> what we have on moblin.org now is a patch for mss, pierre's sdio and sd8686
<amitk> HappyCamp_2: robr_ubuntu: Thanks. I guess tonyespy will then keep track of changes and inform me of anything that can be pushed into Ubuntu.
<robr> HappyCamp_2 : understood
<HappyCamp_2> tonyespy: can you pass this info on to mfrey?
<HappyCamp_2> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 20:47. The chair is HappyCamp_2.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<tonyespy> yes, i can pass on to mike
<HappyCamp_2> topic kernel communication
<HappyCamp_2> [topic] kernel communication
<MootBot> New Topic:  kernel communication 
<HappyCamp_2> [action] tonyespy to communicate meeting info to mfrey
<MootBot> ACTION received:  tonyespy to communicate meeting info to mfrey 
<tonyespy> guess i'll also volunteer to grab the commit messages and see if i can create a rule to filter out everything but kernel patches
<robr> the other status item is the latest kernel pieces for the Gfx driver, which we're ready to give you now but there will be more changes in about 4 weeks
<HappyCamp_2> [action] robr to update Cannoical Lexington and amitk with weekly info on the moblin.org kernel patches
<MootBot> ACTION received:  robr to update Cannoical Lexington and amitk with weekly info on the moblin.org kernel patches 
<HappyCamp_2> [topic] latest kernel pieces for the Gfx driver
<MootBot> New Topic:  latest kernel pieces for the Gfx driver 
<tonyespy> robr: are the changes for the Gfx driver commited as a patch in the moblin kernel tree?
<robr> i don't have any information on the thermals other than i should be receiving new patches soon, the team in umg working on the thermals is supposed to be working directly with you guys on it -- we were taken out of the loop on that one
<robr> tonyespy: no, they're an out-tree driver package
<amitk> robr_ubuntu: I only know that there should be some patches for thermal  in 1st week of Nov
<tonyespy> ok
<HappyCamp_2> amitk: tonyespy Is there anything else that you feel we need to cover.  Anything that robr and I can do?
<amitk> I am ok with this arrangement for now. Thanks guys.
<tonyespy> robr: can you send me the details on the Gfx driver pieces?  other than that, i *think* we're covered for now.  i'll discuss with mike & amit tomorrow
<HappyCamp_2> Okay.  Thanks a lot for your time :)
<HappyCamp_2> Thanks for attending robr!
<tonyespy> thanks rob!
<HappyCamp_2> [action] robr to send details on Gfs driver to tonyespy 
<MootBot> ACTION received:  robr to send details on Gfs driver to tonyespy  
<HappyCamp_2> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 20:54.
<robr> tonyespy: i'll have jacob_p send you the info
<tonyespy> ok, thanka again
<HappyCamp_2> Log for meeting at: http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/
<jacob_p> tonyespy, the graphics driver kernel piece is in a separate package called psb-kmd
<HappyCamp_2> jacob_p: link please
<robr> tonyespy HappyCamp_2: http://www.moblin.org/repos/projects/psb-kmd.git/
<robr> tonyespy HappyCamp_2 : the corresponding X Windows pieces are here http://www.moblin.org/repos/projects/xf86-video-psb.git/
<robr> jacob_p: can you fill in tonyespy with the details of the Beta1 Gfx driver
<robr> tonyespy: i'm not sure either jacob_p or i have your email address
<tonyespy> rob, sorry had to step away from my desk. my email is: tony.espy@canonical.com
<jacob_p> tonyespy, i will send you an email.
<awe> thanks jacob
<HappyCamp_2> tonyespy: so did you have a name for that club?
<Sciri> HappyCamp_2: You going clubbing tonight? ;)
<HappyCamp_2> Maybe :)  He said there was a good band playing.
<HappyCamp_2> thanks tonyespy 
<Sciri> HappyCamp_2: There's Middle East right around the corner. http://www.mideastclub.com/ Rockstar Games Presents : The Big Big Bucks as The Breeders, Indefinite Article as Talking Heads, Baker as The Cars, The Self Righteous Brothers as The Beatles, The Creedence Clearwater Revivalists (Live demos of Manhunt 2 for the Wii and PS2)
<Sciri> Don't know if he was talking about one of those. If not there's Avalon and Lansdown Street Clubs.
<HappyCamp_2> Sciri: thanks
<HappyCamp_2> tonyespy: sorry not using registered nick
<Sciri> tonyespy: /msg nickserv register CHOOSE-A-PASSWORD-FOR-IRC
<HappyCamp_2> not tonyespy I'm not using a registered nick Sciri 
 * HappyCamp_2 is a loser
<Sciri> HappyCamp_2: Slacker.
 * HappyCamp_2 is a looser, seems like ever more of a loser to misspell it :)
<tonyespy> so happy_camp2, not registered nick, so you didn't see any of that stuff i just typed to you???  ;)
<tonyespy> oh well... no happy_camp2.   for those interested, there's a great band (   http://www.myspace.com/andreagillis  ) playing at "toast" in union square ( http://www.toastlounge.com/directions/ ).  Music probably starts around 9:30 / 10ish...
<tonyespy> forgot to prefix with: "for those at UDS-Boston"...
<tonyespy> follow the directions from "Back Bay"...
<amitk> robr_ubuntu: ping
<amitk> robr_ubuntu, jacob_p: Are the changes to psb _required_ for C0?
<robr> amitk: no
<robr> amitk: as far as i know that is, as we've got no C0 hardware to test on
<amitk> we tried booting an lpia kernel on the C0. Kernel boots fine, but modprobe psb gives a garbled screen
<amitk> robr_ubuntu: ^^^
<robr> amitk: that's strange -- are you guys using the latest and greatest image-creator ?
<robr> that is, the one on moblin.org as opposed to the deb package in gutsy
<robr> moblin-image-creator on moblin.org will break on your kernel because the fsets are trying to pull in the new psb X driver which requires the new psb.ko driver
<amitk> this was using the gutsy M-I-c
<robr> amitk: do you know when that was pulled from moblin.org? 
<amitk> robr_ubuntu: Just wanted to confirm that there is no psb<-->C0 dependency.
<rob_moblin> as far as we know, no
<amitk> robr_ubuntu: no idea. but it has to be atleast 3 weeks old
<rob_moblin> then you should be safe from the issue i was talking about
<rob_moblin> we've never tried the old psb driver on C0 hw as we don't have C0 hw
<HappyCamp_2> rob_moblin: I am trying to build an image for the CB, what FSETs should I install
<HappyCamp_2> rob_moblin: ??
<rob_moblin> HappyCamp_2: moblin-crownbeach-full-mobile-stack-with-proprietary plus ubuntu-staging
<HappyCamp_2> rob_moblin: what order?
<HappyCamp_2> does it matter?
<rob_moblin> HappyCamp, in that order
<HappyCamp_2> k
<rob_moblin> ubuntu-staging should be last
<lucasr> hi all
<HappyCamp_2> rob_moblin: it booted :)
<rob_moblin> HappyCamp_2, fantastic
<lucasr> vuntz, ping
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-11-01
<asac> anyone can approve moblin.org list mails? .... in case: https://www.moblin.org/mailman/confirm/dev/a64ca259002786410c6cb6132e76e44c87062c94
<asac> oh :)
<asac> i see that that woulod cancel the message ;)
<HappyCamp_2> asac: I can, let me look
<asac> HappyCamp_2: thanks
<HappyCamp_2> asac: done
<gaogao> hello Sirs, I am trying to understand whether MIC can be used to generate a minimal system for a generic i386 platform, anyone willing to discuss a little bit?
<gaogao> the aim being a set-top box appliance OS
<gaogao> for a media center
<Mithrandir> I guess you could, yes.
<Mithrandir> you'd need to define your own package sets
<Sciri> gaogao: I'm currently at Ubuntu Developer Summit in a talk and don't have time to dive into details, but yes, MIC can build images that will boot generic i386 devices. Just make sure to edit /etc/X11/xorg-targetname.conf for your X driver.
<gaogao> I guess this was the worst timing to ask for off-topic topics -  tks for replying
<gaogao> will try to dive into the package sets and be back in a more appropriate moment
<ToddBrandt> Are we still having the meeting on Thursdays or has it been permanently moved to Wednesdays?
<davidm> ToddBrandt, Thursdays but I sent an email yesterday canceling it for today.
<StevenK> ToddBrandt: It's Thursday, but it was canceled.
<StevenK> Ah, missed
<ToddBrandt> ahhhh, ok
<davidm> I expect/hope to have it next week.
<ToddBrandt> I sent my status anyway, short as it was
<davidm> ToddBrandt, tks
<StevenK> davidm: agoliveira just reminded me. When are we bashing our heads together for pbuilder?
<davidm> StevenK, Later today perhaps
<StevenK> davidm: Ready when you are. I could go on for days about package build environments.
<lool> Any problem with pbuilder?
<StevenK> lool: No no, davidm just wants a hand with setting it up
<lool> k
<davidm> lool, I'm just saving a bit of time, skipping the install learning curve.
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-11-03
<Telo> hmmm
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-11-04
<Lucifer> so, is there a release yet?
<Lucifer> I'm building a robot, and I need an embedded OS :)
<somerville32> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/FAQ
<Lucifer> that page says it'll be released next to gutsy :)
<Lucifer> er, last month
<Lucifer> I'm installing moblin-image-creator to fool with it
<Mithrandir> Lucifer: while you are of course free to play around with ubuntu mobile, I suspect we might not be what you want for proper embedded stuff
<Mithrandir> depending on your hardware and needs, naturally
<Lucifer> I need two things, mostly.  A computer in my car, and a computer to put on a lunar rover.  I've got a small team together to work on a rover for the google lunar xprize.  :)
<Lucifer> so we'll be using off-the-shelf hardware, or stuff we created ourselves.
<Lucifer> we're still in research/planning, but i thought I'd test some embedded build systems on my car computer and see how they went
<Lucifer> my interest in ubuntu is primarily based around how well the feisty->gutsy upgrade went.  Never seen such a thorough upgrade go so smoothly.
<Mithrandir> yeah, we're not really that kind of embedded.  It's more about what the UI looks like and works rather than size of the distro.  Though, we're lighter than regular Ubuntu, it's nowhere near traditional uclibc/embedded distros.
<Lucifer> ah, ok.  Would you be able to direct me to some documentation that would help me build a custom ubuntu from scratch?
<Lucifer> ubuntu-devel directed me here :)
<Mithrandir> I don't really think we have anything about that.  Maybe emdebian is more appropriate for what you're doing, if you're going into the sub-100M space?
<Mithrandir> or openembedded.
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-10-27
<smp4488> what is there as far as touch screen friendly audio players?
<persia> smp4488, totem isn't too bad.
<ian_brasil> dunno whether you follow maemo dev lists but there is a discussion about how maemo can better align with ubuntu and indeed debain http://wiki.maemo.org/Mainstream_Linux_Alignment
<ian_brasil> any thoughts andor ideas on this would be great
<raslam> can ubuntu mobile work on my O2 Xda
<raslam> ?
<raslam> my O2 Xda is running WM5 right now... So can I set up ubuntu mobile to run on it?
<persia> raslam, Launchpad doesn't have any ARM buildds.  You might try the packages from mojo.handhelds.org
<StevenK> Windows Mobile works on Arm?
<persia> ian_brasil, Personally, I'd like to see closer alignment.  There's a lot of Maemo packages that aren't in Ubuntu today, and to meet certain use cases xfce components were added.  Having everything run inside the hildon context is probably cleaner.
<persia> StevenK, ARM, PPC, and SH only I think.
 * StevenK attempts to update his memory
<persia> Might be ported to MIPS, but I think that was back when it was called "WinCE"
<persia> SH is nearly dead, but Hitachi still buys enough licenses.  ARM is the primary arch.
<ian_brasil> persia: interesting...xfce components...i did not know that...is there a list soewhere of these?
<persia> At least thunar andmousepad.
<raslam> persia: will ARMv5EL from mojo.handhelds.org work on O2 Xda?
<raslam> persia: my cpu is OMAP850
<persia> raslam, Actually, I don't know which Mojo flavours work on which ARM chips.  I'm too much of a coward to format any of my ARM devices, although I think I've gotten my Zaurus replacement nearly in shape to do the Zaurus next month.
<ian_brasil> raslam: i think that might work http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture
<samjam> easlam: I flashed my O2 XDa with Ranju's WM6 build so that I could use HDSD cards for linux. I've been running titchy-mobile.
<samjam> I mean raslam not easlam
<lool> ian_brasil: Poke
<ian_brasil> lool: hi
<ian_brasil> does someone know how to find the cairo version and/or source used on mobile
<lool> ian_brasil: It's the same as intrepid; you can either check launchpad, or if you have devscript, rmadison cairlo
<lool> cairo
<lool>      cairo | 1.8.0-0ubuntu1 |      intrepid | source
<lool> *devscripts even
<lool> 'night
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-10-28
<popey> ogra: don't suppose you know how to switch _off_ the "maximise all windows and have no decorations" feature of ubuntu mobile do you?
<superm1> Hi folks, i Had a question regarding ubuntu-mobile.  Is there a particular reason that the "dark" look was chosen and deviates from standard Ubuntu look?
<persia> superm1, No special reason : mostly to make it look different.  There are a couple theme tweaks, but nothing that couldn't be applied to a different theme.
<persia> popey, It's a gconf key : I believe it's in /desktop/ somewhere.  I can hunt it down later if you don't find it easily.
<superm1> persia, so i take it enough apps look well in the dark theme to make it justifiable then?  i had assumed that was the reason that standard didn't go dark in the end
<persia> At least the basic apps in the image displayed reasonably.  I think there was significantly less testing and review than for Ubuntu Desktop, so it may be that some things are unsuitable.
<persia> For the most part, a dark theme can work fairly well, at least from listening to reports from Ubuntu Studio users, although it may not work as well for *everything*, and Ubuntu Desktop has a much wider userbase than anything else.
<superm1> well for what it's worth, the devices i was mentioning the other day are 1024x600, so those teams will be giving it a look
<superm1> but if anywhere that's the resistance that i'd suspect
<persia> You might do a diff between NewHuman and NewHumanMobile.  I suspect the same changes would work simply if applied against Human rather than NewHuman.
<superm1> well the ideal solution will be not having to make any changes :), so i'll just hold off offering that as a suggestion for now to them
<persia> Yeah, it's just that with the archive frozen, no changes or updates are being published.
<persia> And when SRUs start (Thursday or Friday I think), putting in a new theme package would be tricky.
<superm1> well odds are if the only complaint is theming, it will be a factory only change
<superm1> but in planning for jaunty, i was mostly curious for if there was a big driving reason behind it 
<persia> It looked nice?
<persia> Really, it's more a collection of input by various interested parties, rather than any specific guided product : the goal is to make something that is interesting and useful for the people that use it.
<superm1> well i'll pass on any feedback that I get after they look at it.  it will be a little bit until i get it likely though given their current schedule
<popey> persia: thanks, I'll have a rummage
<ogra> popey, not a gconf key
<ogra> go to system->preferences->sessions, uncheck devilspie ... re-login
<persia> ogra, devilspie doesn't store that stuff in gconf?
<ogra> nope
<popey> perfect
<ogra> it uses a config file 
<popey> thanks ogra 
<popey> I "converted" my ubuntu mobile install on the e900 to an ubuntu desktop install
<persia> popey, My apologies for the misdirection.
<ogra> it has its own markup language to do anything you want with a WM window
<popey> no worries persia - I hadn't got as far as gconf anyway :)
<persia> popey, Screen too big for all-maximised-all-the-time ?
<popey> it's only a 9" screen, but I prefer gnomey stuff
<ogra> apt-get remove --purge ubuntu-mobile-default-settings ;)
<persia> It is all gnomey stuff, but with gconf fiddling :)
<ogra> kill your user .gconf dir and you should mainly have a default ubuntu desktop
<popey> if I had a touch screen mini thing then yes, I'd probably go ubuntu mobile but as the eee 900 is kinda a "proper" big boys computer, i prefer a gnome desktop
<persia> popey, You *really* want to purge the default-settings package then : that does all the gconf magic to make it look different.
<popey> i have manually tweaked everything, turning it into a real web book - removing most of the local apps
<popey> yeah, that went early on :)
<popey> sorry chaps, don't mean to distract you from important release type stuff with my eee tales :)
<ogra> hmm, the devilspie config should have gone with uninstalling ubuntu-mobile-default-settings
<persia> At this point, we're just testing images, so not a problem.  It's always good to hear from users.
<ogra> so you shouldnt have any maximized undecorated windows anymore
<persia> popey, You might want to just purge devilspie.
<popey> yes, ubuntu-mobile-default-settings is definitely already removed, but devilspie remained
<ogra> well, devilspie shouldnt sart without a config file ... and that config sits in ubuntu-mobile-default-settings
<ogra> so i wonder whats going on there
<ogra> i guess you didnt purge :)
<popey> yes, status is rc
<ogra> so the configs stay in place 
<popey> well spotted
<ian_brasil> ogra: i tracked down the expensive GTKDrawing call in the NewHumanMobile theme to it setting rgba to TRUE in the murrine engine.
<ogra> apt-get remove --purge cellwriter devilspie xautomation xserver-xorg-input-evtounch netbook-launcher ...
<ogra> then all mobile specific pieces should be gone
<ogra> ian_brasil, ah, might be worth an SRU, though i have to check how the look changes 
<ian_brasil> setting this to FALSE brins it back in line with the others...you loose opacity but i mthink it looks ok 
<ogra> s/opacity/transparency/ *
<ogra> ?
<ian_brasil> yes right transparency...rgba calls it opacity for some reason
<ian_brasil> what is SRU?
<ogra> stable release update :)
<ogra> post release change through an update ... we cant change the image contants anymore 
<ogra> *contents
* lool changed the topic of #ubuntu-mobile to: Ubuntu Mobile | FAQ: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/FAQ | UMPC img http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-umpc/intrepid/current | MID img http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-mid/intrepid/current/
<vbatts> ogra: ping
<ogra> vbatts, pong
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-10-29
<asac> lool: ogra: are there images i can test? will you release in sync with the rest of us?
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-umpc/intrepid/current/
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-mid/intrepid/current/
<ogra> yes, we will release with the rest 
<ogra> colin is just fixing up the last bits of the html stuff on these pages
<asac> ogra: cool. i will test those two today then ;)
<lool> asac: BTW, images are listed in the ISO tracker; if you test them, it's nice to add an entry there :)
<asac> lool: yeah
<asac> lool: i didnt do that for the RC image ... my fault.
<lool> NP
<asac> i definitly knew, but i gave enough feedback here to give you confidence that those worked imo ;)
<ogra> note that the download links dont work on the iso tracker
<asac> this time i will rubberstamp your images properly
<ogra> though you know where to get the latest images :)
<asac> ogra: good way to prevent volunteer testing ;)
<ogra> heh
<ogra> well, the drupal code cant handle .img files ... and stgraber has no time to fix that before release
<ogra> (i was told)
<persia> It's not exactly intentional : it's fallout from the name change : we should have spoken with the release team a few months earlier :)
<ogra> no, its not the name change ... it was there before 
<asac> you could still add the right link to the iso tracker description for your image i guess
<ogra> its the filetype
<persia> ogra, Didn't it work for RC because of some hard-coding somewhere?
<ogra> not afaik
<asac> launchpad is sooo damn slow with 80% timeouts
<asac> and we didnt even release yet :(
<lool> asac: I just crashed in flashplayer while doing iso testing, is it worth reporting?
<lool> I'd guess not
<asac> obviously not ;)
<asac> lool: what you should do is a) install gnash + install swfdec
<asac> and test the plugin switcher
<lool> asac: One thing though: when visiting youtube, I'm not offered to install flash
<asac> lool: thats because youtube uses the flash detection kit ... which prevents firefox from knowing that flash is actually on that site
<asac> lool: google video doesnt do this stupid thing
<asac> http://video.google.com/
<lool> asac: Yeah, I went there immediately after that :)
<asac> so that should work better for testing htat
<lool> that offered the flash install correctly
<asac> lool: i have a hack to detect the flash detection kit
<lool> (didn't pick gnash as I wanted to use the defaults)
<lool> asac: It's an infinite race  :-/
<asac> hopefully i can hook this up properly for next release 
<asac> lool: defaults?
<lool> It makes sense to detect flash if you have something else to offer
<asac> lool: go to a flash site
<asac> lool: there you see this plugin thing in the statusbar
<lool> asac: I mean, I picked the adobe flash instead of gnash/swfdec
<asac> or in the tools -> manage Content-Plugins
<asac> lool: you can install more that way ;)
<asac> and then you can switch on the fly 
<lool> asac: I'm just explaining why I picked adobe flash, that's all ;)
<asac> yeah
<persia> asac, Don't use edge, and LP isn't so slow today.
 * lool lols at Xorg still restarting whne clicking battery applet
<asac> persia: yay. just saw that mail ;)
<lool> asac: xulrunner-1.9: version 1.9.0.1+build1+nobinonly-0ubuntu0.8.04.3+ume1 in http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mobile/ubuntu hardy main <= 1.9.0.3+build1+nobinonly-0ubuntu0.8.04.1 in http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu hardy-security main
<lool> 1.9.0.1...8.04.3+ume1 versus 1.9.0.3...8.04.1
<lool> asac: Looks like we want .3 in the ubuntu-mobile ppa?
<asac> lool: *sigh ...  i think so
<asac> actually i thought that the ppa isn't used anymore?
<lool> asac: It's still used for hardy
<lool> I'm pushing the new langpacks frmo proposed
<asac> lool: have you tested them?
<asac> lool: better dont push those
<asac> lool: take the ones from langpack PPA
<lool> asac: Ah
<asac> i think the -proposed ones are currently broken
<lool> I pushed them to ppa at this point, not to rachive
<lool> (easier to test in this way)
<asac> (unless arne coped the ppa to -proposed in the last few days)
<asac> copied
<lool> The proposed ones are from 29 / 09
<lool> asac: What ppa you say?
<asac> yeah ... broken
<lool> https://edge.launchpad.net/~langpack/+archive -> empty
<asac> i think https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-langpack/+archive
<lool> asac: These work?
<lool> asac: How do you check?
<lool> 20081020
<lool> asac: moo?
<ogra> meow
<asac> lool: i didnt check. arne did
<asac> ;)
<lool> Ok
<asac> lool: but only firefox/xulruner ... better ask him
<asac> lool: actually ... do we need new langpacks?
<asac> lool: look in install.rdf ... if there is a open maxVersion, then you dont need to update langpacks
<lool> asac: I want to update the langpacks because we're lagging
<asac> lool: lagging?
<lool> asac: As in hardy-updates as newer ones than we do
<asac> lool: ok. cant you take the hardy-updates ones then?
<lool> I could, I wanted to take the proposed one to skip an update next time  :-P
<asac> lool: yeah. better use -updates then until dust has cleared up.
<asac> or get a firm ack from arne
<lool> Oh, uh, I had pushed the ubuntu-langpack ones
<asac> lool: did you add the translations for midbrowser?
<asac> do you remember?
<asac> i think those were in the ppa too
<asac> but maybe we shipped them in -gnome?
<lool> asac: Yeah, I do remember and I did add them
<lool> We ship them in gnome yes
<asac> ok.
<lool> cp language-pack-gnome-${lang}*um*/data/mozilla.tar.gz language-pack-gnome-${lang}-${VERSION}/data
<asac> well. i doubt that there can be much breakage. 
 * lool watches https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile/+archive/+builds?build_text=&build_state=pending
<lool> asac: I'm going ot test them to some extent anyway
<asac> maybe check back with arne if he is aware of issues with current ppa
<asac> lool: right.
<lool> asac: Yup, I poked Arne already
<lool> Not quite sure in what TZ he is
<asac> taiwan ;)
<asac> +8 or something
<lool> I should have said, I know he's in taiwan, but not really when he's around :)
<asac> hehe
<lool> asac: You think you could merge xulrunner / security with the hardy ume one today?
 * lool would love to clear the mobile report
<asac> lool: should be quite easy i guess
<asac> let me check if i have the branches
<asac> lool: ok i merged and pushed
<asac> to bzr
<asac> is there a place i can upload to test or do i need to do a local build?
<lool> asac: You can upload to the ubuntu-mobile ppa
<lool> We use it as staging area
<asac> lool: k
<lool> asac: langpacks fine in my testing; arne answered to test them so I did
 * lool promoted new langpacks and everything else except xulrunner-1.9
<ogra> lool, only 2.5 years to go and hardy will be obsolete :)
<lool> ogra: ume hardy will be obsolete in 9.04 though
<lool> s/in/with
<ogra> oh, cool !
<lool> So actually .5 years to go :)
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> he new infrastructure makes everything so much easier 
<persia> Hrm?  Only 12-months post release support?  I thought it was 18 (although I like 12 better : MID 8.04 is a special beast)
<asac> lool: uploading to ubuntu-mobile/ppa
<asac>   xulrunner-1.9_1.9.0.3+build1+nobinonly-0ubuntu0.8.04.1+ume1_source.changes: done.
<asac> Successfully uploaded packages.
<asac> lool: ^^
<ogra> persia, any idea about "debconf (developer): --> 10 debian-installer/keymap doesn't exist" ?
<persia> That just means someone asked debconf for the value of debian-installer/keymap, and debconf complained it wasn't there.
<persia> I'm looking to see if I can understand why.  If I don't find something in the next 18 minutes or so, I'm planing to sleep on it.
<ogra> i dont find the issue itself critical ... but that ubiquity crashes completely in the end is critical
<persia> Well, ubiquity does that a lot : it's not very defensively coded.
<persia> Essentially, it expects to have enough information to make d-i work, and expects d-i not to break.
<persia> ogra, Does /var/log/syslog for the debug crash match that without debug?
<ogra> you mean wrt cannot stat `/etc/default/console-setup' ? 
<ogra> yes, it does
 * ogra grins about "Die Uhr wich in den vergangenen 48299591 Sekunden trotz eines Driftfaktors von 0.000000 Sekunden/Tag um 0.0 Sekunden ab."
<persia> Rather, I mean is it roughly the same in all respects?  I'm comparing logs from two different installs, and just want to make sure that what I'm doing has a point :)
<ogra> so it warns me that the clock was off by 0.000000 secs :)
<ogra> i'll attach the second syslog as well
<persia> Thanks.  I have a suspicion it will have a few extra lines about what console-setup is doing
<ogra> i love the precision of that message ... telling me absolutely nothing :)
<ogra> +while
<ogra> attached
<ogra> i think they are absolutely identical
<ogra> sadly diff doesnt help with the timestamps
<persia> No, the latter one has an extra 30Kb of debug information :)
<persia> ogra, Even with that, I'm stumped though.  I'd be curious if it was MID-specific, but will have to look at it in the morning.
<ogra> it doesnt happen on mobile^Wumpc
<ogra> i didnt that install variant several times there
<lool> asac: thanks!!
<lool> asac: You rock
<lool> asac: New xulrunner works fine; promoting
<asac> lool: thanks
<NCommander> What are the miminual requirements of the hardware Ubuntu Mobile will run on?
<ogra> NCommander, -umpc (formerly -mobile) is a stardard ubuntu-desktop with different desktop layout, theme and focus on touchscreen devices with 7-9" ... the normal ubuntu desktop requirements apply
<NCommander> ogra, thats 256MB RAM, roughly 500Mhz processor?
<ogra> so 256M ram, 3-4G diskspace, 500MHz CPU
<NCommander> whats the smallest varient that will run?
<ogra> ubuntu-mid which s focussing the smaller device class needs a lot less ... i guess 233MHz and 128M should be fine with that
<NCommander> very cool
<NCommander> mid is lpia based, right?
<ogra> right
<ogra> and uses a real mobile desktop based on hildon
<NCommander> Hilldon is the Nokia library that maps the GUI to smaller screens (and also does fun stuff like mapping key inputs)
<ogra> well, not actually nokia, but the maemo community wrote it for that, yes
<ogra> nokia just uses the opensource work from the community to build their os on top
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-10-30
<davidm_> hmm seems to work
<ogra> why shouldnt it ? :)
<davidm> ogra, I was testing a CD image
<davidm> so that was kde in kvm 
<ogra> ah
<ogra> well, umpc is good for release
<StevenK> Hmmm. My -mid install is behaving wierd
<ogra> how ? 
<StevenK> "client 1 rejected from local host"
<ogra> xorg ? 
<ogra> i didnt have that
<stgraber> did you break your .Xauthority or /etc/hosts ?
<stgraber> (I had similar issues when NM went crazy and rewrote my hosts file)
<ogra> it doesnt do that anymore though
<stgraber> indeed
<StevenK> Hmm
<StevenK> Let me boot it again
<ogra> was that in the livefs ? 
<StevenK> No, the installed system
<StevenK> /etc/hosts looks fine
<StevenK> I didn't touch .Xauthority
<ogra> still the error ? 
<StevenK> Right
<ogra> bah
<ogra> whats the falout of that error ? do you get the desktop ?
<StevenK> Nope
<StevenK> Just the X cursor
<ogra> weird
<ogra> it defintely worked for me 
<StevenK> On an installed system?
<ogra> as well as for loic
<ogra> ye
<ogra> s
<StevenK> I'm happy to put it down to me doing something dumb and trying again
<davidm> StevenK, let me  know your results when you retest
<StevenK> davidm: Shall do. Finding lunch first.
<davidm> StevenK, status?
<StevenK> davidm: Watching the install
<davidm> OK
<StevenK> davidm: Reproducable on second install. :-(
<davidm> StevenK, what is different for you?
<StevenK> davidm: I'm not sure -- I went through the install like usual
<davidm> I'm confused why you have issues and lool and ogra did not
<StevenK> As am I
<davidm> Try and debug and keep me posted
<StevenK> davidm: Right. Setting tune2fs -m 0 /dev/sda1 and rebooting helped.
<StevenK> davidm: Which is just a fault of the device I'm installing on having so little drive space.
<davidm> Ah
<davidm> df -h
<StevenK> davidm: Before the tune2fs, available was 0
<davidm> Ah, tht could be the problem then
<StevenK> Right. So, setting the reserved percentage to 0% gave 70 odd MB free and after a reboot, X worked
<davidm> did we have a howto to convert the USB image to a iso image?
<StevenK> I'm not sure that we can do that.
<davidm> Ah, OK.  Seems like it should be possible but maybe not tonight
<StevenK> It's probably doable, we just don't provide tools or a howto
<pururu> is release date for ubuntu-mobile same as ubuntu ?
<pururu> ... and wtf is ubuntu-umpc lol
<Burgundavia> pururu: a version of ubuntu mobiile for things like eee
<pururu> wow cool, is it optimized for SSD by default? (like disabling logging to ssd and such)
<pururu> and mounting ext2 with noatime
<pururu> also midbrowser shoulbe replaced with firefox
<pururu> imho
<pururu> mmm... and how netbook remix mix into these distros? lol
<Burgundavia> netbook remix is a canonical thingy, not an ubuntu one
<Burgundavia> some technologies are crossing over
<crevette> hello
<ogra> hey crevette 
<persia> hey crevette 
<ogra> happy release day !
<ogra> persia, to you too 
<crevette> hello ogra & persia
<crevette> is it allowed to push fixes or not ? because I have a bug in gnome-user-share due to a bug in obex-data-server
 * ogra sees #ubuntu-release-party slowly moving over the 400 ppl mark
<crevette> I laready reported the bug upstream few days ago and it was fixes
<ogra> crevette, it will need an SRU bug 
<persia> crevette, The issue with not being able to send from the phone to the PC?
<crevette> persia, not this one, but a minor one
<persia> crevette, Which bug?
<crevette> no notification on file reception
<crevette> I didn't had time to opena bug in LP I was doing it right now
<crevette> blame me
 * crevette would lie to be an OSS company unemploye :)
<crevette> persia, moving obex-data-server to 0.4.1 solved my problems in file recption 
<crevette> :)
<crevette> it is extrem but efficient in my case
<persia> Yeah.  My thought was to do that for Jaunty.  For the new small issue, do you think it's worth fixing in intrepid?
<crevette> file recption seems to not work for some people, I would like if it affect only nokia user
<crevette> Mine is nokia, and I seen another nokia user
<ogra> who has nokia phones anyway :)
<crevette> yeah, just some foolish people
<persia> Team meeting in 10 minutes
<ogra> really ? 
<ogra> do we really hold one on release day ? 
<persia> Should be short :)
<ogra> right ... 
<crevette> persia, not being able to receive files is not a small issue for me 
<crevette> :)
<persia> crevette, heh.  Makes sense.  Did you open the bug?
<crevette> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/obex-data-server/+bug/289487
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 289487 in obex-data-server "Unable to received files" [Undecided,New] 
<persia> crevette, Does it need the full upgrade, or can a patch be extracted?
<Burgundavia> the latest ubuntu-umpc image hangs in QEMU when it hits the desktop
<crevette> persia, that what I would like to know too, I try to extract a diff between our snapshot and the current version, but I'm unable do that
<crevette> I"m using the web interface cause I'm using windows now
<crevette> :)
<persia> crevette, Aha!  ping me when you have a chance to look at it in better circumstances, and I'll help try to get the patch into intrepid.
<crevette> perhaps the easiest thing is too find the root cause of the problem, and see if a fix is applicable on top of our snapshot
<crevette> because moving to 0.4.1 will bring us on unknow road :)
<crevette> I think fedora is using 0.4.
<crevette> persia, as said before, my available time is tiny, I'm on lucnh break now, that's why I have some time now 
<crevette> tonight I won't have time to look to this
<persia> crevette, Understood.  A few days either way isn't critical, as we're hard-frozen for release anyway.
<crevette> yep
<CaPriCoRN^80> hi 
<crevette> but I don't think this is possible to change version during a stable release
<crevette> right?
<CaPriCoRN^80> i like to join ubuntu team to work with them through some mean . I have network experience like LAN/WAN , router , switches and configuration of different servers on linux and solaris 
<Burgundavia> crevette: getting a new version would require a SRU and I don;t see one being granted for a whole new version
<persia> crevette, It's possible, but finding the specific change we want is easier to get approved.
<crevette> yeah I understand
<persia> None of the people here can approve any patch, so it's best to minimise it before we submit it.
<lool> CaPriCoRN^80: Which image did you try out so far?
<persia> CaPriCoRN^80, As you raised this during the Mobile meeting, did you want to work on stuff for the MID and UMPC flavours, or just help out more generally?
<CaPriCoRN^80>  lool: image ?
<CaPriCoRN^80> sorry i didnt know about the meeting
<CaPriCoRN^80> sorry for disturbing 
<CaPriCoRN^80> persia: i dont know about MID and UMPC 
<persia> CaPriCoRN^80, OK.  What sort of thing do you want to do?
<crevette> :)
<CaPriCoRN^80> persia: well i am not sure what type of work is available
<CaPriCoRN^80> little confused on that 
<CaPriCoRN^80> but i am not a good developer 
<CaPriCoRN^80> so perhaps i can cut that thing 
<persia> CaPriCoRN^80, Maybe you could help track down bugs?
<CaPriCoRN^80> persia: that will be good
<CaPriCoRN^80> persia: i have to do this along with my studies 
<persia> CaPriCoRN^80, I'm going to suggest you join #ubuntu-bugs, and read the contents of the /topic.  That's a great way to get started.
<CaPriCoRN^80> persia: ok
<ian_brasil> @all: congrats on the release!
<p0rky> ÐµÑÑÑ ÐºÑÐ¾ Ð¸Ð· ÑÑÑÑÐºÐ¾ÑÐ·ÑÑÐ½ÑÑ?
<ian_brasil> p0rky:no, its english here
<lool> amitk: Would it make sense to switch initrd to squashfs?
<lool> It would mean building the module in the kernel, but I don't think it's a big deal
<lool> However I think it could help performance from USB key and hard disk; not sure about ssd
<smp4488> when will the next image be released?
<ogra> in 6 months
<ian_brasil> ha ha
<smp4488> no i heard the new kernel was released today
 * ogra still had no chance to check the ubuntu-umpc final url
<ogra> there is no way to get to cdimage.ubuntu.com
<ian_brasil> nor me...but that is not suprising
<ogra> well, i'D like to know its where it belongs :)
<tonyyarusso> Hi, could someone explain the process that was used in preparing the MID img?  I'd like to make bootable USB keys of other architectures and versions.
<ogra> tonyyarusso, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Mobile/HowTo/ImageCreation
<tonyyarusso> excellent
<persia> tonyyarusso, You may also be interested in the usb-creator utility, for flavours that come on CD
<ogra> well, that wont get him MID :)
<tonyyarusso> That actually looks fairly promising.
<lool> tonyyarusso: What arch(es) are you interested in?
<tonyyarusso> lool: i386 and amd64 primarily.  (I know, I'm boring)
<tonyyarusso> Basically just wanting to make live and/or install CDs in USB stick format
<lool> tonyyarusso: I'm not sure building an i386 image is a good idea
<lool> tonyyarusso: Oh you just want to use an ISO on an USB stick?
<lool> tonyyarusso: There's a tool for that in intrepid
<lool> tonyyarusso: usb-creator
<tonyyarusso> Yeah, I'm thinking I'll try that.
<amitk> lool: squashfs for intrepid or jaunty?
<lool> amitk: jaunty!!
<lool> amitk: I was thinking that it was kind of sad to use the ancient cramfs for initrd
<lool> When squashfs is theoritically superior
<amitk> lool: we already have squashfs as a module, so building it in shouldn't be a problem
<lool> amitk: Hmm I wonder whether the kernel knows mounting initrd when they are squashfs?
<ogra> lool, i doubt that
<ogra> and i'D expect more overhead 
<lool> ogra: How so?
<ogra> no idea, would need tests, just a guess 
<lool> Well it's faster than cramfs in benchmarks I've seen
<lool> See squashfs inclusion in this week's lwn
<ogra> haha, fedore moves the X server
<ogra> s/e/a/
<ogra> i havent had time this week to look at lwn yet
<lool> Yeah, and I'm afraid it makes sense
<ogra> sure it does
<ogra> well, i'm a big squashfs fan, we use squashfs images in ltsp because of this ;) i wouldnt object having update-initramfs using a -squash switch :)
<ogra> but i assume ram and CPU requirements might be higher than cramfs
<ogra> booting the current -generic kernel requires about 48M (including initramfs)
<lool> ogra: The initrd is thrown away, so I'm not worried about ram
<ogra> well, wearing my ltsp hat i am :)
<lool> and concerning cpu, I'd expect it to be a net win in the end in terms of boot speed as we have CPU at this stage usually
<lool> ogra: We're only speaking of initrd here
<ogra> right
<lool> I wouldn't expect ram usage to be anywhere high during initrd
<ogra> with early compcache in initrd i am able to boot a 32M client
<ogra> without it i need at least 48M
<ogra> the kerne alone takes about 10M before even loading initrd into ram
<ogra> or even more, its a while ago that i looked
<ogra> for mobile i fully agree its a good thing
<ogra> since we will rarely see 32M devices :)
* ogra changed the topic of #ubuntu-mobile to: Ubuntu Mobile | FAQ: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/FAQ | UMPC img http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/intrepid/release/ubuntu-8.10-umpc-i386.img | MID img http://releases.ubuntu.com/intrepid/ubuntu-8.10-mid-lpia.img
<ogra> .oO( fixed the image links to the proper release files )
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-10-31
<pururu> alternative location to download ubuntu-8.10-umpc-i386.img from?
<Burgundavia> pururu: is cdimage down?
<Burgundavia> some of the mirrors might be carrying the iso
<pururu> not entirely... but very slow and such\
<Burgundavia> welcome to release day
<pururu> yeah
<pururu> :)
<tripzero> what touchscreen driver does ubuntu mobile support?
<tripzero> it runs xserver 1.5, some drivers don't seem to be available for it yet
<tripzero> (namely  egalax, evtouch for 2)
<Burgundavia> evtouch is in universe
<tripzero> i see that, but does it work for xserver 1.5 ?
<persia> It does/
<tripzero> last time I checked, 0.8.7 didn't have support for 1.5
<tripzero> oh, cool
<persia> There's even an FDI file for the eGalax device.
<tripzero> okay, i'll give it a try...
<tripzero> btw, does UME have a default navigation app yet?
<persia> navigation?
<tripzero> gps?
<persia> Oh.  No.  Some people say good things about gpsdrive.
<persia> There's nothing well tested on that class of device though.
<tripzero> hmm
<tripzero> navit need to get into the repo me thinks
<persia> Might make a good target for intrepid, if there are enough people with the form factor and integrated gps to test something.
<persia> I've heard good things about navit, but yeah, someone needs to package it.
<tripzero> they've got a repo with intrepid builds
<tripzero> I wonder what it would take to get those into ubuntu's repo
<persia> What's the license for it?
<tripzero> gpl
<tripzero> v2 afaik
<persia> In that case, it probable just needs a dev to review it to get included.
<tripzero> oh, cool
<tripzero> is there a mailing list to post to?
<tripzero> i can pass that info onto the devs...
<tripzero> i'll talk to them, they probably have already looked into
<tripzero> it
<persia> It needs a "needs-packaging" bug in launchpad.
<persia> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewPackages
<tripzero> the reason I ask is a bunch of people have gotten navit to run on things like the nokia n810.  Seems like it'd be a better fit than gpsdrive
<tripzero> it certainly is developed more
<tripzero> gpsdrive hasn't had a release in a while afair
<persia> I suspect you might be right.  The limited testing I've done with gpsdrive seems to expect a larger screen.
<persia> Sorry : the URL moved.  It's https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages
<tripzero> thanks :)
<lool> morning
<Burgundavia> persia: cloudmade is also providing navit xml downloads of OSM data
<ogra> the last time i looked at navit you had to supply the maps at compile time ....
 * ogra would like to see elmo if the buildd's download 10G of OSM maps :)
<ogra> i heard roadnav started to use OSM too now ... 
<persia> Could create an installer package to pull/update OSM maps though : doesn't have to pass through the buildds.
<ogra> it compiles them into the binary
<persia> That's just an annoying architecture.
<ogra> well, it works if you only want one city or something
<persia> I guess, but there's no sensible way to do that on a distro basis
<ogra> nah
<ogra> it might have changed though, its really a while iago that i ooked at it
<persia> Someone should write a spec for GPS for MID for Jaunty
<ogra> roadnav seemed a better shot back then (especially through its real 3D nav mode ... it can put standard vector mas into an isometric view)
<ogra> but when i looked at roadnav it didnt support OSM, the dev version is supposed to, but i didnt look at that yet
<ogra> roadnav is really close to a normal car navi system
<ian_brasil> persia: i did some stuff a while back with gps and bluetooth and gypsy (the new gps daemon) https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UMEGuide/ApplicationDevelopment/GPSEnabledWebApplication
<persia> ian_brasil, So you suggestsoemthing like having udev call gypsy and then add some sensible clients?
<ian_brasil> yes..gypsy is really nice and geoclue will use this too 
<ian_brasil> geoclue is like a provider of location services to apps and part of gnome mobile
<ian_brasil> http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/GeoClue
<persia> Nifty.  That makes it sound like there's a good chance that it can be included in Jaunty.  Would you mind prepping some packages to push to Jaunty when it opens?
<ian_brasil> some packages of gypsy are here http://ianlawrence.info/downloads/debian/gypsy-lpia/
<ian_brasil> i think geoclue is packeaged for maemo already but i can check
<acidfoo> morning
<ian_brasil>  i am writing a small python program using python-dbus that receives a signal and exports an object. Can I have both in the same class and communicating 
<ian_brasil> how to do this ?
<rhpot19911> hey guys wanted to report a problem with the lpia 8.10 alternate installer, once it is done installing the base system I get an error ""No installable kernel was found in the defined APT sources"
<ogra> lpia 8.10 alternate installer ?
<rhpot19911> http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/ports/releases/intrepid/release/
<rhpot19911> ubuntu-8.10-alternate-lpia.iso
<ogra> yes, where do you see an lpia alternate there ? 
<ogra> oh
<ogra> cdimages ...
 * ogra was looking at releases.u.c
<rhpot19911> or should I not be trying to use this on my eee :)
<ogra> not sure that was even tested
<ogra> persia would know, but he is asleep
<rhpot19911> ya I didn't see it on the downloads right from the ubuntu page, figured I'd report what I see
<rhpot19911> ogra: should I contact him some other way?
<ogra> filing a bug might be proper :)
<rhpot1991_laptop> ogra: want to point me at the correct location on LP?
<ogra> just trying to find one :) it might be debian-installer or it might be the linux-lpia kernel package, not sure
<ogra> the images we built for intrepid are both using the live installer ... 
<rhpot1991_laptop> I'm trying the install again, gonna see if I can manually pick it out
<rhpot1991_laptop> also this alternate cd is a pain to install from usb, it wants you to have a cdrom no matter what
<ogra> the only thing i find is bug 274781 atm
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274781 in grub-installer "Please add support for the lpia architecture" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274781
<ogra> but thats not appropriate
<rhpot1991_laptop> hmmm it doesn't seem to want to let me do anything, its either continue without a kernel (broken system), or say no and then it throws you to the step chooser
<ogra> rhpot1991_laptop, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debian-installer/+filebug go with that for now 
<ogra> though i guess it's an issue with the linux-lpia package in the end 
<rhpot1991_laptop> ya it seems like it
<ogra> but d-i might be the best starting point
<rhpot1991_laptop> ogra: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debian-installer/+bug/291670
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 291670 in debian-installer "LPIA installer missing kernel" [Undecided,New] 
<rhpot1991_laptop> if you want to throw that at persia
<ogra> i will, thanks a lot for filing
<excalibas> hello, what is the best choice of ubuntu for my eee pc?
<rbelem> excalibas, i think UMPC is better choice
<ian_brasil> umpc runs great on eeepc
<excalibas> thanks, that was what i was thinking about, and I get this from here? http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-umpc/intrepid/20081030.1/
<excalibas> just one more question, how do I put the usb image on the usb?
<rbelem> excalibas, install the usb-creator
<excalibas> oh, I just saw the faq and the link on top of the page, sorry about that, and thank you for the pacience :)
<rbelem> excalibas, no problem ;-)
<rhpot1991_laptop> what kernel does umpc use?
<lool> rhpot1991_laptop: 2.6.27-7-generic
<rhpot1991_laptop> the whole ubuntu mobile scene is kinda confusing currently, about 18 different choices
<ogra> only two ... 
<ogra> :)
<rhpot1991_laptop> ogra: plus the eee specific ones which are based off of those 2, but ya I have a better understanding now
<rhpot1991_laptop> umpc for 7-10, mid for anything below 7
<ogra> right
<ogra> and eee is its own thing, not based on any of ours (yet)
<rhpot1991_laptop> yep, I've been using eeebuntu with the array.org kernel
<ogra> they use their own packages and their own archive atm
<rhpot1991_laptop> works well, but I am playing with 8.10 on there now
<ogra> fi you want the netbook apps, they are in the archive in 8.10
<rhpot1991_laptop> I think eeebuntu is just 8.04 with the array.org kernel and some eee tweaks for the hardware
<ogra> i'll write a howto the next days that explains how you can easily turn -umpc into a netbook desktop
<ogra> well, they also use the netbook launcher and window manager tweaks etc
<rhpot1991_laptop> awn as well
<rhpot1991_laptop> for the standard
<ogra> well, an is in the archive as well :)
<rhpot1991_laptop> hmmm, didn't know that :)
<ogra> awn-manager
<ogra> is the package name
<ogra> oh, no, thats only the manager for the settings
<ogra> avant-window-navigator :)
<rhpot1991_laptop> thanks ogra I'll give umpc a try and see how it works on my eee 1000
<ogra> for the eee 1000 you might need a special wlan driver 
<rhpot1991_laptop> ogra: ya, this kernel does pretty well with all the drivers: http://www.array.org/ubuntu/
<ogra> 	Activity  [oct. 9 - oct. 16 ]
<ogra> err
<rhpot1991_laptop> I'd prob go ahead and use that
<ogra> https://launchpad.net/~stgraber/+archive
<ogra> that works with any intrepid kernel
<rhpot1991_laptop> ya I've installed the realtek drivers as well before
<ogra> this package uses dkms and is properly integrated with the kernel
<rhpot1991_laptop> neat, I'll check it out
<sporter> Hello, anyone able to answer a quick question about customizing ubuntu MID?
<excalibas> I just tried umpc on my eee (I used the version from the link on the title) but it seems wifi is not working, shoud I use this array.org kernel or there is a way to fix this?
<ogra> excalibas, which eee model ? 
<ogra> for eee 1000 there is a dirver at https://launchpad.net/~stgraber/+archive
<ogra> *driver
<excalibas> ogra: 900
<ogra> hmm, there is a /debs directory on the usb key, check it :)
<ogra> install the package in there, after a reboot your wlan should work
<excalibas> ogra: ok, so I make an instalation first right this is not from the live usb
<ogra> right
<ogra> install, plug in the usb key, if the filemanager ppos up, go to the /debs dir on te key, doubleclick the package and follow the gdebi installer
<excalibas> ok, thanks a lot ogra, I am installing... ... ...
<ogra> :)
<pururu> ... card reader dosnt work on aspire1
<excalibas> thanks a lot people, see you
 * ogra wonders if he now can assume it worked :)
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-11-01
<pururu> so anyone know how to enable card reader on acer aspire one ?
<ian_brasil> pururu: the right hand side does not work..the left works
<ian_brasil> at least for me
<ian_brasil> no..i don't know why
<ian_brasil> are you seeing the same thing?
<pururu> dunno... i think they both dosnt work... and i dont need left one
<pururu> i want to backup something and make fresh install from release image
<ian_brasil> back up to a pen drine?
<ian_brasil> s/drine/drive
 * pururu goes to shop to buy one more usb stick. why i got this SD card lol. i cant boot from it, and cant write to it...
<ian_brasil> ha ha
<ian_brasil> pururu: what happens when you put the caard in ..nothing?
<pururu> exactly
<ian_brasil> maybe you need to mount it?
<pururu> it dosnt show in fdisk -l too
<pururu> [ 5249.232063] mmc0: new SD card at address 1234
<pururu> [ 5249.234652] mmcblk0: mmc0:1234 SA01G 995328KiB
<pururu> but i see this in dmesg
<pururu> mmm
<pururu> this is for right side slot
<pururu> mmm
 * pururu calling for linux hackers to save a world
<rbelem> pururu, nice! your sd card is working
<pururu> woohoo
<rbelem> pururu, sudo fdisk -l /dev/mmcblk0
<pururu> yeah it show something
<rbelem> pururu, paste the output to http://paste.ubuntu.com/
<pururu> ok i created partition with gparted and mounted it, it work
<pururu> still need to paste this?
<rbelem> cool!
<rbelem> nope
<pururu> thanks for your help
<rbelem> you're welcome ;-)
<pururu> ;-)
<pururu> but i'm not sure this will work on fresh ubuntu... cuz i made few changes to enable card reader... as described on ubuntu aspire one site
<pururu> like setpci one time yesterday... and writing something to fstab
<pururu> i just not seen any result
<rbelem> pururu, i guess you will not need to make these changes
<pururu> it seems so
<ian_brasil> how can i add a password protected bluetooth device with the new bluetooth manager
<ian_brasil> putz...https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bluez-gnome/+bug/284994
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 284994 in bluez-gnome "bluetooth-wizard unable to pair headset" [Undecided,New] 
 * ian_brasil clicks the nice new affects me button
<crevette> hello there
<persia> Good morning crevette 
<crevette> hello persia
<crevette> good evening (?) persia
<persia> Yeah, it's evening here :)
 * ogra yawns
 * ogra wonders why -mid changes tty's on each restart of X
 * persia suspects an openvt race
<ogra> its weird
<ogra> initially its on tty1
<ogra> after the first restart its on 7
<ogra> after the second its on 9
<ogra> and then it jumps between 7 and 9 with each restart
<persia> It takes the first available VT.
<persia> It starts before getty, so gets tty1 when it starts.
<persia> Then, when restarting, it starts before it finishes, so takes tty7.
<ogra> hmm, no gconf dbon mid ?
 * ogra thought he could pull the icon theme name from some gconf key
<persia> When it really finishes, getty takes over tty1, so the next time, it needs a different one.
<persia> tty8 is taken by usplash, so it gets 9.
<persia> then back to 7 because 7 is free from the previous X death, etc.
<persia> There should be a gconf db
<ogra> usplas shuld have called /etc/init.d/usplash start to free it up at the end of booting
<persia> tty8?
<persia> That's where the console log goes.  Unredirecting that means either not showing it, or redirecting somewhere else.
<ogra>                # Clear VT 8 of any console messages
<ogra>                 clear >/dev/tty8
<ogra>                 # ask usplash to go away
<ogra>                 usplash_write QUIT
<ogra> thats from the usplash_quit function
<ogra> which is called by /etc/init.d/usplash start
<ogra> it does more stuff like actually killing leftover usplash processes and switch to vt1
<persia> hunh.  Where does /dev/console point after that?
<ogra> tty1 i think
<persia> Maybe that doesn't work because X has tty1?
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> which is not usual
<ogra> anyway, the missing gconf db is more weird than the tty jumping
<ogra> i ony have toplevel dirs in gconf editor
<ogra> but not a singe key 
<ogra> *single
<persia> That's very odd, because kourou uses gconf to determine the current category.
<ogra> gconf ? 
<ogra> no
<ogra> it uses xdg
<ogra> and the theme is hardcoded
<ogra> so there is no dependency at all on gconf ... i was about to add one :)
<ogra> thats why i looked in gconf-editor
<ogra> err
<ogra> ignore me 
<ogra> the theme in gconf-editor is weird ... it doesnt show the little expander arrows and my doublecliks on the folders were not strong enough
<ogra> there we go ... /desktop/gnome/interface/icon_theme
<ogra> that should be the last bit of icon theme things we need ... 
 * ogra fixed rendering completely already and we have a fallback to the gtk-missing icon if no icon is found now
<ogra> switching from gtk.Iconview to gtk.Table might be harder though 
<ogra> does it make sense to have a context menu in kourou ? 
<ogra> i.e. do many target devices of -mid ave the ability to right click ? 
<persia> My tablet has right click.  Also, most touch devices support right-click by long-touch.  The Zaurus uses that for context.
<persia> Personally, I think it'd be cool if the context menu could include a means of adjusting Home, either by adding or removing icons.
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> i thought of adjusting home, changing background and opening the theme capplet
<ogra> later probably a "create launcher" 
<ogra> great, icon theme from gconf works
 * ogra pushes to his dev branch
 * ogra scratches head about a redraw function ... i'm getting tired of restarting X somehow
<persia> Perhaps a reload function?
<ogra> yeah, thats what i meant
<persia> Just implement it as a quit function for the plugin, and make sure hildon-desktop can be given a restart hint in the .desktop file.
<ogra> but externally triggerable 
<persia> Why would you want it externally triggerable?
<ogra> because i could write external tools like a kourou-icon-theme-selector ... that wouldnt have to sit in the app itself (but be called from context menu) and after an icon change it can trigger a reload
<ogra> same for a wallpaper selector
<persia> Don't do that in kourou
<ogra> both are things you dont need permanently in ram
<persia> Get hildon-desktop to accept external triggers that restart a given plugin.
<persia> That's generally resuable for everything.
<ogra> might exist already 
<ogra> hmm, apparently not
<ogra> all references google knows point to restart hildon-desktop completely
<ogra> "or restart your device" 
<ogra> woah
<persia> Right : implementing something like that in hildon-desktop would be a big help generally.
<persia> It's not just for reload, but having a way to be able to kill a stuck app.
<ogra> but i'm currently not in C mood
<ogra> so i'll look at other kourou stuff first
<ogra> switching iconview to table will be big :/
<ogra> but i'D love to play with wallpaper things :(
<ogra> gah
<ogra> gdk_pixbuf_new_from_file_at_scale() isnt ported to pygtk
<ogra> grmbl
<crevette> ogra: you just need to port it :)
<ogra> crevette, as i said above, not in C mood today :) 
 * crevette doesn't understand c :)
 * ogra does but wants to play python ... its weekend, so what i do is for having fun ;)
<crevette> actually I'm fighting with a patch I want to achieve, and which me make crazy because of warning during compilation :)
<crevette> I wonder why the project I'm interested with are in C
<crevette> projects
<root> hello guys
<ido-> was wondering whats the difference between MID and mobile versions 
<ido-> which should i choose for my samsung Q1
<persia> ido-, I'd recommend the UMPC image for your samsung Q1 : it's had a fair bit of testing on that platform, and works fairly well.
<persia> MID is for smaller things, like the Aigo MID, Sharp D4, etc.
<ido-> thanks
<ido-> downloaded it
<ido-> tryin to getit to boot
<ido-> downloaded the latest build of umpc from yesterday
<ido-> tried to boot it on my Q1
<ido-> and it stops at initramfs
<ido-> no error
<ido-> hrm.
<persia> Q1 or Q1U?
<ido-> Q1U
<ido-> should i use an older build 
<ido-> or is it not supposedto wokr
<ido-> persia ?
<persia> No, it's supposed to work.  I've heard from a couple Q1U owners that it worked.
<ido-> hrm.
<ido-> so i'll download an older build
<persia> Where does it get stuck?
<ido-> which do you recommend ?
<persia> No, you want the released build.
<ido-> well, it starts showing the ubuntu loading bar thingy
<persia> Does it get about 15-20% along?
<ido-> and then stops, and goes into busybox/initramfs prompt
<persia> That's rather unexpected.
<persia> Anyone else around have a Q1U?
<ido-> seems no one is here
<persia> Or at least nobody paying attention right now.
<persia> THis is repeatable?
<ido-> or that.
<ido-> every time I try to boot..?
<persia> That sounds repeatable.
<persia> Which image did you download?
<ido-> sec
<ido-> ubuntu-umpc.img
<ido-> cant find the exact link since ubuntu is down
<persia> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-umpc/intrepid/current/ubuntu-umpc.img ?
<ido-> well, at least the cd-download server
<ido-> yes
<ido-> actually, the build from the 10/30
<persia> Hrm.  That's the recommended image : I wouldn't expect any other to work better.
<ido-> i used dd for windows
<ido-> to put it on the a usb stick
<persia> That should work.
<ido-> with bs=1024
<ido-> it did boot anyhow.
<ido-> i'll boot it in a minute
<ido-> and i'll dmesg
<ido-> see what errors it shows
<persia> Sounds like a good plan.
<ido-> question
<ido-> can i make it boot without the ubuntu bar ?
<ido-> so i could see progress on the console
<ido-> hrm
<ido-> weird
<ido-> re-written the image with bs=512
<ido-> and now it loaded...
<persia> 1024 is the usually recommendation, but I'm glad to hear 512 worked for you.
<persia> To boot without splash, use "nosplash" as a boot argument, but if it boots perhaps you don't need that.
<ido-> yes
<ido-> indeed
<ido-> how do i calibrate the screen
<persia> I think it's system...Administration...Calibrate Screen
<ido-> doesnt work
<persia> ogra, Any advice?
<ido-> says "no evtouch capablee device found"
<persia> That's very confusing for the Q1U, because the guy who put together the calibration tool has one.
<ido-> hrm. who is he ?
<ido-> persia ?
<ogra> persia, the recommended image isnt a daily build but the released one :P
<persia> ogra, Isn't that the release build for umpc?
<ogra> see topic ;)
<ogra> i think there was a 30.1 or .2 build
<persia> It went to releases!  I thought it was only going to cdimage.
<ogra> because the livefs was borked in the pre last one
 * ogra hands persia a pair of glasses :)
<persia> Which might explain ido- 's calibration issues.
<ogra> -mid is on releases, -umpc is on cdimage
<ogra> but nontheless both had released images with proper naming etc
 * persia confusedly re-reads the URL, and is again confused, but will learn
<ogra> yeah i'm not happy either
<persia> I'm not unhappy, just confused.
<ogra> 30.1 was the last daily build ... terranova had a hiccup on the 30 image
<ogra> well, i would have liked both in the same place
<persia> Oh, yeah, it would be nice if the ultimate intrepid daily build was also the release build, but that's just an implementation detail.
<persia> My fault mostly, for not raising it to the release team early enough.
<ogra> ??
<ogra> the ultimate one is the released one
<ogra> for upc that was 30.1, for mid that was 29
<persia> So http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-umpc/intrepid/current/ubuntu-umpc.img == http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/intrepid/release/ubuntu-8.10-umpc-i386.img ?
<ogra> right, current was copied over to ubuntu-8.10-umpc-i386.img
<ogra> but not 20081030
<persia> Then what do you mean " i would have liked both in the same place" ?
<persia> MID + UMPC?
<ogra> yes
<persia> RIght.  My fault.
<ogra> its tricky to get that across
<ogra> nope
<ogra> thats been part of the renaming
<ogra> not yours
<persia> Yeah, but I'm the person who integrated the images with the milestone series and missed a step in doing so, which is why the rename came so late.
<ogra> mid is "official", umpc isnt
<persia> Yep.
<persia> umpc will be official next time : all the prerequisites are in place.
<ogra> right, i'll write a spec for presseding umpc to be netbook tomorrow ... lets see if we get gfxboot working with syslinux ;)
<persia> huh?
<ogra> that way it would be possible to have all three flavours in a single image, build lpia and generic and have a selection menu like the cd
<persia> Why would you want to do that?
<persia> Ah.  Interesting.  Is the netbook team planning to go for flavour status then?
<ogra> no, but i'm supposed to do something with the four apps
<ogra> so ubuntu-umpc-default-settings will get a preseed value to switch flavours
<ido-> hrm
<ido-> back
<ido-> orga/persia
<ido-> another problem, non-related
<ido-> i can't seem to get the install to work correctly
<ido-> first, it doesnt always run (runs only after trying to run it multiple times)
<ido-> and even when it does, it fails somewhere at the stage when its trying to repartition my HD
<ogra> weird
<ogra> it definately installs fine here 
<ido-> could i make it persistant storage without the need to install it somewhere ?
<ogra> on identical HW (unless theere are different Q1U configurations, which i dont belive)
<persia> ido-, You could, but performance suffers : better to chase the install.
<ogra> i think casper in intrepid had no proper support for persistance 
<ogra> unless that was fixed last minute
<persia> I thought that was fixed at the end, although I could be mistaken.
<ogra> but afak the patch was considered o big for the late release state
<ido-> so how do i make it persistant directly ?
 * ogra repeats ... "i think casper in intrepid had no proper support for persistance"
<ido-> whats casper?
<ogra> the tool providing persistance ... and the liveCD bootmechanism used on the image
<ido-> oh
<ido-> orga
<ido-> did you resize the partition using the installer ?
<ogra> no
<ido-> hrm that could be the thing causing it to fail
<ogra> what kind of partition is that ? 
<ido-> ntfs ?
<ido-> the one that comeswith the device.
<ogra> might need something like a defrag run before and removal of the windows swapfile before you can even resize it
<ido-> hrm. getting the error: An error occurred while writing the changes to storage device"
<ido-> does gpart do that ?
<ido-> gparted
<ogra> windows usues to put the swapfile at the end of a partition which might cause resizing to fail
<ogra> no idea what gparted does, we dont sue it since years in ubuntu, partman (teh tool the installer backend uses) doesn usually a safer and more effective job
<ogra> *use
<ido-> seems the ntfs partition was unclean
<ido-> so it couldnt shrink it
<ogra> right
<ogra> clean it under windows first
<ido-> thats what i'm doing
<ogra> do a defrag and disable the swapfile ...
<ogra> you can re-enable it after the shrinking
<ido-> how did you calibrate your screen orga?
<ogra> using te calibration tool
<ido-> which one ?
<ogra> thats why i wrote it :)
<ogra> the one from the system menu
<ido-> oh.
<ido-> it didnt detect a touchscreen device on mine..
<ido-> (although the touchscreen worked ok..)
<ido-> and Xorg.log showed evtouch loaded
<ogra> works fine here ... just tested it this second
<ogra> and if you have the same device i dont see a reason why it shouldnt work
<ido-> hrm.
<ogra>  lshal|grep eGalax
<ogra> does that return anything ? 
<ido-> lspci shows eGalax
<ido-> i think lshal does so to..
<ogra> hal cares for the device nowadays
<ogra> check it, it should return two lines
<ido-> sec, rebooting into ubuntu after disk cleanup..
<ido-> how much space should i allocate for ubuntu ?
<ido-> would 3gb be fine for starters ?
<ido-> its just for testing..
<ido-> to set how well it works on the umpc
<ogra> the current install uses about 2.5G
<ogra> so for testing 3G plus swap
<ido-> really ?
<ido-> oh. o
<ido-> ok
<ogra> that leaves you 500M for user data
<ido-> thats not much.
<ogra> well, give it more then :)
<ido-> just got it booted
<ido-> takes a while to boot..
<ogra> sure, its a live session
<ido-> running calibration
<ido-> nope, says no evtouch capable device found
<ogra> but your touchsceen works ? 
<ido-> yes
<ogra> what does the lshal command give you ? 
<ido-> lshal has eGalax
<ogra> two times ? 
<ido-> yhep, info.product
<ido-> and usb_device.product
<ogra> i wonder if they have eGalax that are named differently somehow
<ido-> eGalax "TouchScreen"
<ido-> "eGalax ouchScreen"
<ogra>     <match key="info.product" contains="eGalax">
<ogra>       <match key="info.capabilities" contains="input">
<ogra> thats what hal looks for in the device entry in lshal
<ogra> and it works fine here in live mode as well as in installed mode
<ogra> just tested both again
<ido-> whats info.capabilities ?
<ogra> a hal key
<ido-> i dont see it under the touchscreen udi
<ogra> lshal|less
<ido-> did that
<ido-> and ?
<ogra> err, wait
<ido-> hrm ok.
<ogra> the Q1U has a Touchkit
<ido-> yes
<ogra> look for: lshal|grep Touchkit
<ido-> Touchkit HID-USB Touchscreen
<ogra>     <match key="info.product" contains="Touchkit Touch">
<ogra>       <match key="info.capabilities" contains="input">
<ogra> same thing
<ido-> where do you se that config thingy ?
<ido-> is it part of the calibration util ?
<ogra>   info.capabilities = {'input', 'input.mouse'} (string list)
<ogra>   info.category = 'input'  (string)
<ogra>   info.parent = '/org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/usb_device_eef_1_noserial_if0'  (string)
<ogra>   info.product = 'Touchkit Touch'  (string)
<ogra> in lshal
<ogra> lshal|less
<ogra> you should actually have it identical 
<ido-> well, almost
<ido-> the info.product is different
<ogra> oh
<ido-> its "Touchkit HID-USB Touchscreen"
<ogra> thats the prob then
<ido-> not contains  "touchkit touch"
<ogra> you can edit /usr/share/hal/fdi/policy/10osvendor/50-touchkit.fdi
<ido-> where did you see '<match key="info.product" contains="Touchkit Touch">"
<ogra> after install though
<ido-> sure i can
<ogra> and i'll see if i can shove that in as bugfix
<ogra> the match is in the .fdi file above
<ido-> edited it
<ido-> left only "Touchkit"
<ido-> what now ?
<ogra> just make it match Touchkit without Touch
<ogra> well, it wont work easily on the livesystem
<ido-> can i restart the hal thingy ?
<ido-> oh, only after reboot..
<ogra> you essentially need to stop X, restart hal and start X again
<ido-> how do i restart hal ?
<ogra> sudo /etc/init.d/hal restart
<ido-> hrm.is the calibration util source public ?
<ogra> apt-get source xserver-xorg-input-evtouch
<ogra> but it will go away in jaunty 
<ido-> go away ?
<ogra> upstream xorg is working on making all touchscreen devies use the evdev driver and we'll have a generic calibration tool that should match more than evtouch
<ido-> oh
<ido-> ok
<ogra> so the current tol is only an interim solution
<ogra> *tool
<ogra> i just wrote it to have anything at all
<ido-> hrm
<ido-> restarted hal
<ido-> and X
<ogra> since evtouch is abandoned by its dev since years and the calibration tool never worked
<ido-> and it still didnt work
<ogra> hal-find-by-property --key input.x11_driver --string evtouch
<ogra> does that return anything ? 
<ido-> nope
<ogra> well, then you dont use evtouch
<ogra> your  /usr/share/hal/fdi/policy/10osvendor/50-touchkit.fdi was changed to: <match key="info.product" contains="Touchkit">
<ogra> ?
<ido-> yes
<ogra> well, i see no reason why it shouldnt work then 
<ido-> Xorg.log shows /dev/input/event4 as "Touchkit HID-USB Touchscreen"
<ido-> orga ?
<ido-> Xorg.log shows /dev/input/event4 as "Touchkit HID-USB Touchscreen"
<ido-> after all the touchscreen does work.
<ogra> but its not using evtouch 
<ido-> hrm. so what is it using ?
<ogra> so the evtouch calibtation tool cant work
<ido-> and should i make it use evtouch ?
<ogra> what does Xorg.log say what it uses ? 
<ido-> what should i look for?
<ogra> (II) config/hal: Adding input device Touchkit Touch
<ogra> (II) LoadModule: "evtouch"
<ogra> should be loaded right after the keyboard
<ogra> but if it works for you anyway, why change it 
<ogra> i just wonder why hal doesnt matc it at all
<ogra> since it should
<ido-> no, doesnt say that
<ido-> i dont mind keeping it this way
<ogra> well, then hal didnt load it
<ido-> but the screen is uncalibrated
<ido-> and i have no idea how to do it
<ogra> well, the change in the match line should have helped
<ogra> try it on the installed system later
<ido-> i did that
<ido-> oh
<ido-> yea, well didnt do that..
<ido-> will install now
<ido-> see how it helps
<ogra> good luck
<ido-> sure.. thanks.
<ido-> will be back later to report
<ogra> i might not be around though
<ido-> do you usally hang out here
<ogra> its saturday ... and evening
<ogra> yes
<ogra> every day during the week 
<ido-> so i'll maybe stick around.
<ido-> wouldnt mind helping out
<ogra> great :)
<ido-> i'm new to ubuntu
<ogra> hope you like it
<ido-> i'm an embedded linux developer though
<ogra> (despite the glitches)
<ido-> at work that is
<ido-> hrma
<ido-> orga, still around ?
<ido-> installed, still no evtouch driver on xorg
<ido-> ok
<ido-> got it fixed..
<ido-> how do i move windows that aren't resizable ?(so i can see the hidden part)
<rhpot1991> ogra: I tried out umpc on my eee, its pretty nice but I prefer more of a pure desktop for multitasking.
<ido-> i think its geared twards umpc's
<ido-> 7"
<ido-> no screen realestate for many windows at the same time
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-11-02
<ido-> hrm. anyone around ?
<secion81> can someone help with booting on a samsung q1 ultra?
<secion81> Cricket... cricket...
<rbelem> hi secion81
<secion81> hi
<rbelem> secion81, maybe i can help you
<secion81> Would be grateful.
<secion81> I am trying to get ubuntu mobile running on my samsung q1 ultra.. Problem is that when i try to boot from the usb stick i just get a comma in the top left of the screen.
<secion81> used dd to copy the image over from my ubuntu 8.10 install.
<secion81> Any ideas why this wont boot?
<rbelem> secion81, maybe usb-creator could help you with this
<persia> secion81, What blocksize did you use?
<persia> rbelem, I don't think usb-creator works with the USB images.
<rbelem> oh! thanks persia 
<secion81> 1024
<persia> Yeah.  I just tried.  usb-creator can only process .iso files
<secion81> BS=1024
<persia> secion81, Running dd from which OS?  ido- Was saying about 12 hours ago that 512 worked better, although 1024 has always worked for me.
<persia> Mind you, the 512 was from Windows, and the 1024 from Ubuntu.
<secion81> ubuntu 8.10
<secion81> I will try 512, see what happens
<persia> Hrm.  I would have expected 1024 to work.
<secion81> Do i have to format the drive with Gparted before hand?
<persia> Shouldn't need to do so.
<secion81> trying 512 now.. Will let you know..
<secion81> Vista is on the Q1 now.. Does that make a difference?
<persia> It shouldn't.  The Migration Wizard might run during the install, but that shouldn't be an issue.
<secion81> hmm
<secion81> nope, Still just get the apostrophe in the top right corner. Got the same trying to boot ubuntu 8.10 from usb
<persia> Odd.
<secion81> Also.. Whenever I press any key on the samsung the USb key flashes and another apostrophe shows up on the screen.
<secion81> If I keep pressing keys the screen will eventually fill up with apostrophes and the USb key will flash rapidly.
<persia> That's different.  Hrm.
<secion81> Am writing image to external HD.. Will see if that works..
<secion81> Seems to be working with the external HD
<persia> Maybe just an issue with that key?
<secion81> must be.. Not sure what brand it is but says 2G attache.. Time to buy a new key:)
<persia> I'd recommend running dd to blank the USB flash from /dev/zero, and reformat it.  Sounds like the boot sector is a bit funny.
<persia> No, as long as you can still read the key, it works : probably just needs a reset.
<secion81> well
<secion81> I am now stuck at checking device /dev/sda.. b.. c.. d.. for installation source.
<secion81> sleeps for 5 seconds then repeats.
<secion81> any info on this?
<persia> Hrm?  It should be a live session.  From where did you get the image?
<persia> It sounds like you have the 8.04 image, which has a few issues, amoung which that it reformats the target device without warning.
<secion81> Do you have a link to the correct image?
<persia> In the /topic
<secion81> I downloaded this from the ubuntu site but maybe the wrong one?
<persia> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/intrepid/release/ubuntu-8.10-umpc-i386.img 
<persia> Well, not wrong, so much as old.
<secion81> k
<secion81> is this based on 8.10? with 3g support?
<persia> Yep.
<secion81> duhh, says 8.10 in the download link
<persia> Well, actually, not so much based on, but part of.
<secion81> got ya
<secion81> well.. Now it just says "Boot Error"
<persia> That would be a corrupted boot sector.
<secion81> k.. Sorry for the newbieness here but how do i fix that?
<persia> dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdX for a while.
<persia> Then, fdisk your drive and create a valid partition table.
<persia> Then overwrite that with a new dd.
<persia> I don't quite understand why this works, but it has worked for me a couple times.
<rbelem> dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdX bs=512 count=2
<persia> rbelem, count=2 is enough?
<rbelem> persia, bs=512 will write zeros only to the boot sector
<secion81> fdisk?
<rbelem> secion81, cfdisk is easier
<secion81> i have fdisk running in cli? What do i se tthe cylinders to?
<persia> Or at least has a nicer interface.
<secion81> keepps telling me i have to set cylinders
<rbelem> :-)
<persia> Doesn't really matter.  You'll be overwriting it with the next dd anyway.  I'd recommend going for the largest.  Also, be sure that you're working on the usb drive.
<secion81> k, seems to be working now. cool.
<rbelem> :-)
<secion81> thanks for the help bro. works good but still seems to need development.
<secion81> would like to see grab and drag in the pdf viewer
<persia> There's actually a lot of places it would be nice to have grab&drag : it mostly needs a means by which to have this be a runtime decision, rather than a compile-time decision, as I understand things.
<persia> The reason being that most people don't want grab&drag on the desktop.
<mbuf> my moblin image was created in July 2008; what is the best way to update it? cat /etc/apt/sources.list shows "deb http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports gutsy main restricted universe multiverse"
<persia> mbuf, Could you pastebin /etc/fstab?
<mbuf> persia: "#UNCONFIGURED FSTAB FOR BASE SYSTEM"
<persia> Oh my.  I'd recommend a reinstall from http://releases.ubuntu.com/intrepid/ubuntu-8.10-mid-lpia.img
<mbuf> persia: so, shall i remove the moblin-image-creator directory?
<persia> theoretically you could change "gutsy" to "hardy", run do-release-upgrade, and then change "hardy" to "intrepid" and do it again, but I've no idea how your filesystems are laid out, and this may run out of space.
<mbuf> persia: yeah
<persia> Yeah.  I'd recommend removing that directory, and purging that tool from your system.
<mbuf> persia: where can i find instructions on installing and setting .img?
<persia> mbuf, What are you trying to accomplish?  Just an install on your device?
<mbuf> persia: see if i can work on some bug-fixing?
<mbuf> persia: yes, just install on laptop
<mbuf> persia: i don't have any device with me;
<persia> Does your laptop support kvm?
<mbuf> persia: sorry, and how is that supposed to work? 
<mbuf> persia: kvm is a hardware switch?
<persia> It's a virtual machine environment.  apt-cache show kvm
<persia> I can't in good conscience recommend installing Ubuntu MID on a laptop, as the environment is fairly limited when not on a target device, but you can run it in a virtual machine, which is probably best if you want to look at bugfixing.
<mbuf> persia: will do
<mbuf> persia: i get kvm_interl module not loaded failed!
<mbuf> *kvm_intel
<persia> What happens if you run modprobe kvm_intel ?
<mbuf> persia: FATAL: Module kvm_intel not found; using lenny/sid with 2.6.18-5-686
<persia> Hrm.  I thought lenny had 2.6.26.  I'm not sure how to advise you.
<mbuf> persia: ok; i will look at documentation
<mbuf> persia: thanks for your time
<persia> You might try the kvm-source package with module-assistant.  I'm not sure if it works unless you update your kernel, but it may.
<mbuf> persia: ok
<secion8> i keep seeing a ribbon like interface? how do i ge tthis with the UMPC version?
<secion8> like here http://www.jkontherun.com/2008/02/here-comes-ubun.html
<persia> Hrm?  Which do you mean?
<persia> Oh, I've never actually seen that image on a running device : I've always suspected it to be an artist's rendition.
<secion8> ohh. i see.
<persia> You might be able to do something like that with the appropriate flash movie and mobile-basic-flash on the MID image, although mobile-basic-flash isn't used by default anymore, so you'd probably need to do some hacking.
<secion8> Also see it on the actual ubuntu site. Would be an awesome interface. http://www.ubuntu.com/products/mobile
<persia> That page has never been accurate, really.
<persia> Personally, having a device with an interface like that, I'll say that I find it a lot easier just to pick what I need from a grid launcher or a menu than from that sort of selector.
<persia> Might be interesting as an alt-tab implementation though.
<mbuf> persia: i get 2.6.18-5-686 build errors, /usr/src/linux-headers-2.6.18-5-686/scripts/Kbuild.include: No such file or directory; i can try to use a newer kernel
<secion8> I like the thought of a grid of squares that i can put my most used apps on. Such as shortcuts to web pages or documents.
<secion8> yes, Would also be interesting as an app switcher.
<persia> mbuf, That's probably best.  I suspect that the maintainer has tested most recently with the current lenny kernel.
<persia> secion8, A number of people like the idea.  I have a couple devices that work like that, and I find I use the menu to open applications more than the launcher, but that might just be me (I tend to have a few things open).
<ian_brasil> this is the original clutter from moblin
<ian_brasil> there is some package from moblin with this IIRC
<persia> Isn't it mobile-basic-flash, just with different default settings than the current package has?
<ian_brasil> no, it is moblin-clutter-home
<ian_brasil> You can browse the source from:
<ian_brasil> http://git.moblin.org/repos/projects/moblin-clutter-home.git/
<ian_brasil> You can checkout the code via:
<ian_brasil> git clone git://git.moblin.org/projects/moblin-clutter-home
<ian_brasil> or at least you used to be able to
<persia> Ah.  That explains why I've not seen it : that package doesn't appear to be in the repos.
<ian_brasil> they have changed things around abit on moblin
<rbelem> persia, it is in deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mobile/ubuntu hardy main
<ian_brasil> FWIW i really liked this interface too
<persia> rbelem, I try not to look there :)
<rbelem> :-D
<persia> ian_brasil, You think it ought get pulled into the repos for Jaunty?  Do you know if anyone has ported to newer clutter?
<StevenK> No, it isn't ported
<ian_brasil> i am working a.t.m with python clutter 0.8 which was released last week
<persia> I think james_w was working to try to get that into intrepid, but it was just too late.  I expect it to be in Jaunty.
<ian_brasil> it has apparently got webkit python bindings too http://www.mail-archive.com/clutter@o-hand.com/msg01004.html but that is not in 0.8 yet
<rbelem> i'm leaving
<rbelem> g'night
<ian_brasil> it is probably morning for most here i think!
<mbuf> persia: installed kvm, kvm-sources, loaded kvm-intel on 2.6.26-1-686!
<persia> mbuf, Cool.  Now you should be able to run the ubuntu-8.10-mid-lpia.img in KVM, and experiment with it.
<mbuf> persia: the URL is incorrect? http://releases.ubuntu.com/intrepid/ubuntu-8.10-mid-lpia.img
 * mbuf downloads ubuntu-8.10-rc-mid-lpia.img
<persia> Yeah, apparently the URL is incorrect.
<persia> ogra?
<persia> Let me dig up a different working URL.
<mbuf> persia: ok
<persia> You don't want the RC image.
<mbuf> ohh!
<mbuf> persia: this one? http://ubuntu.media.mit.edu/ubuntu-releases/intrepid/ubuntu-8.10-mid-lpia.img 
<persia> Perhaps not surprisingly, the image servers seem to be a little loaded.
<persia> That ought do just fine.
<mbuf> persia: thanks!
<persia> No, thank you for finding one faster than I could :)
<mbuf> persia: :) the Ubuntu kernel and mobile team are different? or they just feed in updates to the mobile team?
<mbuf> persia: most of the mobile team bugs are related to user applications
<persia> The Mobile team and Kernel team are different.  There might be a couple people on both teams though.
<mbuf> persia: ok
<persia> Yeah.  The Mobile team mostly takes care of the set of packages that are in the default set for the mobile flavours.
<persia> Some of this is collaborative : for example most of the applications in the UMPC image are the same as in the Desktop image, so the Mobile team works closely with the Desktop team to make sure these applications work in both contexts.
<persia> Similarly, the Mobile team tends to have more people with target hardware for mobile applications, so there is collaboration ebtween the Mobile team and the Kernel team to make sure the kernel supports the hardware in target devices.
<mbuf> persia: i see
<mbuf> persia: where can I get such hardware for testing? or can use a PC?
<persia> mbuf, You can use a PC, but it's such a low-DPI device, that everything will probably look funny.
<persia> You also want a touchscreen.
<persia> Depending on where you live, you may be able to purchase target hardware at a local shop, or over the internet.
<persia> You'd be looking ideally for something with a 4-6" screen and 1024x600 resolution with an Intel Atom processor.
<mbuf> persia: ok, i will get one
<persia> I have a Sharp D4 for this.  A number of people have either the Aigo MID, or something similar based off the "jax10" platform.
<mbuf> persia: i see
<persia> You can do some testing with larger UMPCs, but they tend to be in the 150-200 DPI range, and you ideally want something in the 200-250 DPI range.
<persia> (by comparison, a desktop monitor is usually in the 80-100 DPI range)
<mbuf> i see
<Bert_2> Hi, if I install the ubuntu-mid package on intrepid the user interface doesn't fill with icons and gnome splash stays forever, is this a known bug or am I going something wrong ?
<Bert_2> *doing
<persia> It's a known issue.  I'm not sure I'd call it a bug, so much as a side effect of some choices made in the past that haven't yet been cleaned up.
<Bert_2> persia: is there a way for me to fix it or make it work ?
<persia> Essentially, the MID stuff doesn't quite work right for anything other than lpia, and the Desktop or UMPC stuff doesn't quite work on lpia.
<Bert_2> I see
<persia> Well, you're welcome to help try to fix it for Jaunty, but your best bet is to purge ubuntu-mid-default-setttings and ubuntu-mid from your current installation.
<persia> With luck, that ought take care of most of the issues, and you will be able to boot cleanly again.
<Bert_2> well, I really just want the nice interface with the row thing, is it possible for me to get that part wokring ?
<persia> kourou only works well in a hildon-desktop context.
<persia> You might be able to get netbook-launcher working though.
<Bert_2> and those packages, are they more stable in hardy or in intrepid ?
<Bert_2> persia: or doesn't it matter at all ?
<persia> That's hard to say.  The intrepid packages are newer, and probably have a few more bugs fixed.
<persia> In the sense of being unchanging, I'd say hardy and intrepid are about the same.
<persia> In the sense of not making your system crash, I just don't know.
<Bert_2> well, I'm now using the packages that came with intrepid by default, is there a more reliable or more stable ppa or is this it ?
<persia> Any ppa is likely less stable and less reliable than what is in intrepid.
<Bert_2> persia: does your ppa have a working UI when it is installed on a basic intrepid ?
<persia> I don't think there are any packages in my ppa.
<Bert_2> or another ppa ?
<persia> Not to my knowledge.
<Bert_2> too bad :(
<Bert_2> but thx for your help
<Bert_2> I will have to find another way to make a 5-year old kid interface then
<Bert_2> any suggestions ?
<persia> Try the netbook-launcher package.
<Bert_2> is it in intrepid (cause it's no in hardy) ?
<persia> Yes.
<Bert_2> okey, I'm going to reinstall intrepid and try it out
<Bert_2> thx
<crevette> hi there
<pururu> so in beta i was able to use wi-fi on aspire one if i disable foss driver in drivers applet (OS probably switched to another driver automatically), but in release now both drivers dosnt work
<ogra> what chipset is that ? 
<pururu> Atheros Communications Inc. AR242x 802.11abg Wireless PCI Express Adapter (rev 01)
<pururu> this is probably wrong answer
<pururu> but this is what lspci say
<Christian> Hi @all
<Christian> Is it possible to install MID in a normal ubuntu installation? Because, I think its the best sollution to use my old 7" Touchscreen.
<ogra> pururu, try installing linux-backport-modules ... 
<ian_brasil> ogra: that does not work
<persia> Christian, You just want the appropriate xserver-xorg-input-${driver}
<ogra> ian_brasil, sure ? the ath5k in there should work
<persia> ian_brasil, It works for some models, and not for other models.  Unfortunately, the PCI ID is the same for things that work and things that don't. :(
<ogra> well, its like that aith the ath5k from 2.6.27 ... linux-backport-modules has the ath5k driver from 2.6.28
<ogra> s/aith/with/
<persia> I thought some models also didn't work with 2.6.28
<ogra> might be
<persia> (just a different set)
<ogra> but afaik most of the AR242x ones should
<ian_brasil> it has been a bit on/off recently ...a.t.m wireless is off
<ogra> its intresting though that madwifi didnt catch it
<ogra> pururu, can you check that linux-restricted-modules is installed ? 
<ian_brasil> iam using the ath5k_pci driver
<ogra> the one from lbm ? 
<pururu> i'm still doing apt-get update
<ogra> pururu, dpkg -l |grep linux-restricted-modules-$(uname -r)
<ogra> you can run that in parallel
<pururu> ii  linux-restricted-modules-2.6.27-7-generic 2.6.27-7.12                           Non-free Linux kernel modules for version 2.
<ogra> madwifi should actually pick it up, but might have some connection probs with certain encryption mechanisms 
<ogra> weird
<lool> ian_brasil: ath5k_pci sounds seriously confused
<lool> ian_brasil: It's either madwifi and ath_pci or ath5k and ath5k :)
<pururu> linux-backport-modules-intrepid ? this one ? i found many
<lool> ian_brasil: Either it works out of the box with default driver (madwifi) or you should try installing linux-backport-modules and it should be picked up by ath5k instead (do reboot though)
<lool> pururu: What's your image?
<pururu> E: Couldn't find package linux-backport-modules
<lool> pururu: Either linux-backports-modules-intrepid-generic for the umpc image
<pururu> yeah umpc
<lool> pururu: Or hmm another name on lpia which I'm too lazy to check right now
<ian_brasil> lool: i have the backports installed
<ian_brasil> lshw -C network shows that the network is disabled
<ogra> pururu, its on eh image btw ... in the /debs dir
<ogra> *the
<ian_brasil> maybe i should purge backports
<pururu> reboot
<lool> ian_brasil: Did you reboot?  which drivers get loaded on boot?  is this umpc or mid?
<ian_brasil> it is umpc ..yes i rebooted
<ian_brasil> how can i find which drivers get loaded at boot?
<ogra> lsmod usually shows them in load order
<ogra> earliest at the bottom
<pururu> yeah wi-fi now enabled and show wi-fi points available
<ogra> try to connect :)
<ian_brasil> ath5k
<pururu> i dont have public points here... i found 3 password protected... so cant test connection
<ogra> ah, you dont have your own then ... well, if connecting doesnt work, please tell us if you can :)
<ogra> it should though
<pururu> okey
<pururu> also any way to install new 2.5.0 intel driver ?
<pururu> i hope openarena will be faster
<lool> ian_brasil: lsmod
<ian_brasil> ath5k is loaded
<ian_brasil> for lbm_cw_mac80211 and lbm_cw_cfg80211
<ogra> is your kernel up to date ? teh broken ath5k was only disabled in the last upload
<ogra> but lbm_cw_* looks fine
<ian_brasil> 2.26.27-7-generic
<ogra> well, the lbm one should override/replace it anyway
<ian_brasil> dmesg gives ath5k gain calibration timeout can't reset hardware -11
<ian_brasil> as well as lots of unknown symbols _ath_hal_attach _ath_hal_getwitelessmodes
<ian_brasil> and so on
<ogra> try removing linux-restricted-modules
<ian_brasil> i did that
<ian_brasil> ah no i didnt ..i will try that now
<ian_brasil> the unknown symbols errors have gone now but the gain calibration timeout remains
<ogra> well, last resort, talk to rtg in #ubuntu-kernel
<ian_brasil> ogra: ok thanks
<pururu> i'm doing nothing special but my screen flickers periodically
<ogra> he maintains the ath drivers (but isnt likely to be around on a sunday)
<lool> ian_brasil: So you're using lbm's ath5k; what's you wifi setup?
<lool> ian_brasil: open, wep, wpa, wpa2...?
<pururu> and i see (EE) intel(0): underrun on pipe A!  errors in end of xorg log... dunno if it related to flickering
<lool> pururu: That's pretty bad
<pururu> why
<pururu> ?
<lool> pururu: It sounds like your intel driver isn't keeping with the refresh rate
<lool> Like, too slow
<lool> Yes, it's likely the cause of flickering
<lool> Now, what are you trying to draw on your screen?
<pururu> what you mean? 1680x1050@60 hz external display is too much for this laptop ?
<lool> It could be
<lool> Depends; I don't know what triggers that
<ian_brasil> wep 
<ogra> does the flicker stop if you lower it ? 
<pururu> ogra: lower what?
<lool> ian_brasil: Ok; I tested with wpa on some atheros chipsets, and it works for me; I suggest you file a bug with lspci -vvnn, dmesg output and stating that you're using lbm's ath5k with wep
<ogra> pururu, the resolution
<lool> ian_brasil: But your chip might not work; either at all, or in this mode, dunno
<lool> ian_brasil: Perhaps it's a channel or killswitch issue too
<pururu> ogra: i'll test it
<lool> ian_brasil: (like authorized channels not set properly)
<ian_brasil> lool: ok i will...it was working on and off during rc updates
<lool> pururu: If your system is idle in terms of CPU usage, it's likely a driver bug though
 * ogra hasnt heard about such an issue with the intel driver we ship though
<lool> first time for me as well
<lool> but on slow hw with high res external display it's not unlikely
<ogra> yeah
<lool> The jax10 has this 800 MHz atom CPU for instance; that's quite slow for nowadays standards, and I suspect the intel driver enables external res depending on available memory and bandwidth, not cpu speed
<pururu> lool: actually it maybe totem player playing music in background cause to flicker whole screen... now i moved it to 2nd workspace and flickering stopped...
<lool> pururu: That sounds like an explanation
<ogra> do you run any visualization plugin ? 
<lool> Not enough bandwidth for full screen vis I'd guess
<pururu> no... its just happened again
<pururu> its vga connection (analog) but bandwidth is for digital connection, am i right ?
<pururu> no viz plugins
<pururu> and this is darkroom theme and special effects disabled
<pururu> yes i see more (EE) intel(0): underrun on pipe A! errors in log
<pururu> and CPU load is near 30% every core... so not 100%
<pururu> (intel atom cpu)
<lool> pururu: So CPU is still quite loaded
<pururu> yes, by gnome system monitor itself
<lool> I'd try lowering the res as ogra suggested
<pururu> ok
<pururu> no, it flicker again with 1024x768 res
<ogra> and thats with the default driver ? 
<pururu> you mean intel graphics driver? i'm not touched graphics drivers
<pururu> i still think this caused by totem... i cant remember flickering before i run totem... and i closed it now... and no flickering
<pururu> and visual plugin is disabled in options
<pururu> effects i mean
<pururu> yeah no flickering since i closed totem
<hossi> is ubuntu mobile free runnner (aka openmoko)?
<lool> hossi: no
<hossi> :/
<playya__> hossi, you want to have ubuntu on your freerunnner?
<hossi> playya__: yes!
<playya__> me too. maybe i start to write some openembedded recipes for ubuntu-mid
<hossi> playya__: would be awesome
<playya__> i don't know where to start: n800 or freerunner
<hossi> freerunner
<playya__> hehe
<playya__> but freerunner needs some more porting
<playya__> i.e.: you have a 480x640 screen
<hossi> yes
<playya__> best thing which could happen: x-compile ubuntu-eee for n800
<secion8> Hi everyone..
<secion8> Has anyone here hacked the bluez BT wizard to allow or adjust the pincode to default to 0000
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-10-26
<oier> e
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-10-27
<lool> plars: bug 461944 looks like a dup of bug 461115
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 461944 in netbook-remix "Upgrade from 9.04 to 9.10 does not upgrade panel" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/461944
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 461115 in netbook-launcher "indicator session applet missing after upgrade to Karmic with UNR" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/461115
<plars> lool: hadn't seen that one yet, I'll take a look, thanks
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-10-28
<vigneswari> hello all
<vigneswari> i have a general question
<vigneswari> what is the priimary difference between i386 and lpia packages..
<vigneswari> what would the issue when i install i386 package in lpia system
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-10-29
<pwnguin> is there a virtual box image of ubuntu-MID or anything I can try out?
<lool> pwnguin: Sorry we dont do this variant anymore
<pwnguin> lool: you guys dont do Mer?
<JamieBennett> pwnguin: no
<pwnguin> #ubuntu-arm?
<JamieBennett> pwnguin: A few of the mer guys hang out there but your better off at #mer
<pwnguin> im just trying to make sense of this http://www.umpcportal.com/2009/05/ubuntu-mid-to-switch-from-moblin-to-mer/
<lool> pwnguin: This is a news derived from a wiki page of a spec which wasn't implemented
<rbelem> pwnguin, for lucid we will have ubuntu liquid remix, which will use hildon
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-10-30
<tordne> ji
<tordne> hi
<tordne> I getting the toshiba tg01 and wanted to install ubuntu mid on it
<tordne> I downloaded the mid-8.0.4.1-menlow
<tordne> is this the last release? 
<GrueMaster> tordne: The ubuntu mid images were only for Intel MID based systems using the Atom processor coupled with the SCH integrated chipset.  Support has gone to a community based model only.  You might be able to get something like Mer to work on it.  They pretty much took over the Hildon desktop development, and are making ports to devices like the Nokia N900.
<DarK``> hi all. Im trying Ubuntu Netbook Remix 9.10 on my EEEpc at this moment. Is it possible to switch to a Gnome-like GUI after installation as I'm used to have?
<GrueMaster> Not yet at this time.  Due to continuing issues with desktop-manager, it was decided to drop it at the last minute.  We are working on a solution, but I don't know if it will be released to karmic or only be a lucid package.
<GrueMaster> DarK``: ^^^
<DarK``> oh...okay. Thanks for your info
<DarK``> GrueMaster: is there another way to turn of the UNR default interface?
<GrueMaster> I'm not sure.  I think that there is a way to reconfigure the system through gconf, but I don't know.  Ideally, we want to have it selectable at login (where the user can choose which desktop environment to use for that session).  
<DarK``> I see. Hopefully its fixed soon because I dont like the default UNR interface at all.
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-10-31
<dereks> hey, can someone help me with ubuntu moblin remix?
<dereks> i want to install it on my dell mini 9
<dereks> http://linux.dell.com/files/ubuntu/moblin-remix/dev-edition-2.0/ <-- is that the best one to get
<dereks> or should i be using the one from cdimages.ubuntu.com?
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-11-01
<yigal> is there a good list of mids that work or nearly work under ubuntu?
<yigal> does the q1 work well with ubuntu-mobile edition?
<yigal> no worries, it's the weekend
<derekS> is anyone else dissapointed in the boot speeds of unr and umr?
<derekS> it sems to be about 1-2 minutes on my mini 9
