#ubuntu-discuss 2013-04-03
<Captain_Crow> will battlefield4 be playable on ubuntu?
#ubuntu-discuss 2014-03-31
<SIRprise> hi. i'm using ultimate edition (because my laptop has 855gm-graphic and driver is included there). is there a way to include a battery widget?
#ubuntu-discuss 2014-04-01
<Junlearningdjang> Hi
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-04-04
<tjk11>   /msg NickServ VERIFY REGISTER tjk11 ufeaglhdhtzj
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-04-05
<froyo> Hello
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-04-04
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> dax: hows that vote turn out?
<lotuspsychje> morning cfhowlett
<cfhowlett> hey ^3 lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: bought me a new samsung 850 pro ssd 128gig, comes today for a daily xenial
<cfhowlett> oooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!! nice
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> i cant hold it anymore till final :p
<cfhowlett> lol.  it is like xmas innit?
<lotuspsychje> !final
<ubot5`> If you install a development version of Ubuntu Xenial and keep up with package updates, then you will be upgraded to the official release of 16.04 when it comes out. To make sure, type Â« sudo apt update && sudo apt full-upgrade Â» in a terminal.
<lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: well the 128 isnt too expensive, 94 euro
<lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: and 10 years samsung warranty
<cfhowlett> sweet!
<dax> lotuspsychje: hggdh and Tm_T stayed, Unit193 is new
<dax> so pretty well
<lotuspsychje> dax: not you?
<dax> indeed
<lotuspsychje> : (
<Tm_T> who is dax?
<Tm_T> why I am all questions today?
 * lotus|xenial sudo halt for new ssd installs
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<nicomachus> wow. I wanted to try out this KDEConnect thing, but it installs pretty much all of KDE just to use the desktop app...
<daftykins> heh
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-04-05
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> 0/ good day to you lotuspsychje :)
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> Been slow on the channel .
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: good to start :p
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: i plugged my new ssd inside + xenial
<lotuspsychje> bloody fast
<Bashing-om> So I do here . Looking forward to my experience . As is I boot in under 5 seconds on a spinner .
<Bashing-om> here/hear* !
<lotuspsychje> nice nice
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: i had some issues with the daily installer though..
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: ubi-language crashes on error 141 forcing me to use english systemwide
<Bashing-om> bug ? operator error ?
<lotuspsychje> yep ill bug it
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: and a pretty old one too: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/459550
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 459550 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubi-language failed with exit code 141" [Medium,Triaged]
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Bug squad, still looking for for help . Lots of old bugs still around.
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1566116
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1566116 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Ubi-language crashed with exit code 141" [Undecided,New]
<Bashing-om> look'n ^ .
<Bashing-om> Should be good, Hope it gets them trackers' attention .
<lotuspsychje> yeah lets hope
<Bashing-om> :)
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: and another bug im affected to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/usb-creator/+bug/1325801
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1325801 in usb-creator (Ubuntu Wily) "failed to boot from USB disk with error: gfxboot.c32: not a COM32R Image boot:" [Critical,Triaged]
<Bashing-om> not much to heat it up .. lots of " Won't Fixï¿¼ ".
<lotuspsychje> anoying bug for new users..
<Bashing-om> One work-a-round. maybe not for the new user : http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1958073 .
<lotuspsychje> lets c
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: interesting, ill test also the new usb creator from xenial
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: K; let sudodus know your results .. he do work hard .
<lotuspsychje> kk
<lotuspsychje> morning baizon
<baizon> hi lotuspsychje
<BluesKaj> Hi all
<BluesKaj> hey TJ-
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<lotuspsychje> hey TJ-
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/04/ubuntu-16-04-unity-8-desktop-progress-video
<TJ-> evening :)
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-budgie-could-be-the-new-flavor-of-ubuntu-linux-as-part-of-ubuntu-16-10-502573.shtml
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: plugged my new 850 pro ssd in my netbook and installed xenial on it
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje,  cool , fast eh/
<lotuspsychje> rocknroll :p
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: i had to bypass a nasty old bug though..
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1566116
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1566116 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Ubi-language crashed with exit code 141" [Undecided,New]
<BluesKaj> I us an EVO 850 ssd on this old pc and it brought it to life
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: placed the evo one on my desktop upstairs, the pro in netbook :p
<BluesKaj> yeah , thinking of another evo 850 for the laptop then using the 1TB hdd as an outboard medai drive
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: good idea, i payed 94 euro now for the 128gig 850 pro
<BluesKaj> ok you guys must pay a lot of vat taxes there., am i correct ?  Ours is 13%
<lotuspsychje> 21%
<BluesKaj> vat = value added tax on consumer goods
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: but the evo is also cheaper here
<BluesKaj> I paid $125 CDN for the evo 850 256 GB ssd including taxes
<lotuspsychje> nice one
<BluesKaj> amazon
<lotuspsychje> the pro is bit more expensive, but samsung gives 10 years warranty
<BluesKaj> ok , that's a nice warranty
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<BluesKaj> ok lots of stuff to do toady ...later
<BluesKaj> hey Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> BluesKaj: Hello, how it be with your world ?
<BluesKaj> ok , was checking s few old hdds, but they're toast ..was hoping for a better result, but they have to go the electronics recycler
<BluesKaj> one isn't so old , a 3yr old WD 1TB .,..very disappointed with that one
<BluesKaj> how about you Bashing-om?
<Bashing-om> Bout the same. Got a WD drive that is problematic and needs replacing .. Got nothing I am comfortable with on hand . Sure a good time to go SSD !
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> none of them last these days, all brands are quite disappointing
<BluesKaj> yea lotus and I were discussing that earlier...thinking of a ssd for my lenovo g500 laptop and using the 1TB hdd from it as an outboard media drive
<daftykins> that'd be the best combo for sure
<BluesKaj> but like you say that drive may not last either :/
<daftykins> just the other day i had a laptop in with a mechanical drive for the first time - and i had to remember to be gentle with it
<daftykins> everything else being solid state now you can just fling laptops around :D
<BluesKaj> yeah the i3 intel cpu as an enbtry level processer is really fast for ordinary computing , adding a ssd to the mix would speed it up even more
<daftykins> i'd actually been quite surprised recently since i got that really cheap i5 in, the jump up from even a 4th generation haswell i3 to a haswell or newer i5 is huge
<daftykins> i go for i3 at the office level though
<BluesKaj> of course I'm used to this old desktop amd 5200+ so any thing in the 5 yrs or so is problya lot faster
<BluesKaj> sdd really helps it tho
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> oh definitely, they've helped me stave off the desire to upgrade this desktop since i built it in 2007
<daftykins> still running one of the first best SSDs, the intel X25-M G2 160GB
 * BluesKaj nods
<daftykins> still have to giggle a bit that i've just ordered 32GB RAM... i'm all too aware of when that was the hard disk size ;)
<BluesKaj> wifey bought me an evo 850 256GB for Christmas so I mounted it in this desktop...new life into an old horse :-)
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/zjuf1qlz9ocecks/deskie.JPG?dl=0
<BluesKaj> 32GB seems like a lot to me
<daftykins> i've picked one of the new M.2 PCI-Express connected NVMe SSDs for my new desktop
<BluesKaj> ram that is
<daftykins> sounds it, but when you look at the price - and that i virtualise a lot, it'll be great
<BluesKaj> pci eh , cool  ..bleeding edge
<daftykins> i want to try and last a good few years like with this PC, for this next one - so going all out makes sense to me :D
<Bashing-om> Me too ! That is the SSD I have my eye on : *****)Samsung 850 EVO 250GB $84.58 >> $71.00 Newegg But out of stock .
<BluesKaj> oh a virtualizer, understood
<daftykins> mmm i would personally avoid the EVOs since they use TLC which won't have the same endurance, thus life span, as MLC
<BluesKaj> at 71 bucks it looks like a loss leader
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Noted ! Was not that aware .
<BluesKaj> TLC.MLC ? uhm ?
<daftykins> it relates to the design of the NAND memory chips, they reduce cost by storing more bits per cell - which due to the way they're built, can then be harder to read back after some time goes by with TLC (triple level cell) versus MLC (multi level cell) which is a confusing one given triple and multi sound the same :D
<daftykins> it's how the industry has chosen to name them though. the samsung 840 EVOs had a big ongoing firmware blunder, which is still evident, where over time of filling up the drive the performance would drop off to a tiny fraction of 1% that of new, as it was becoming harder and harder to read the data
<daftykins> they 'solved' this, or rather cheated it in the end by having the firmware go over the drive during idle times and rewrite everything to ensure the charge levels are strong enough to be read
<daftykins> i don't expect the 850 generation suffers from this so much, but it's probably still present
<BluesKaj> I probly won't notice since my cpu is somewhat older and slower than the modern ones anyway
<daftykins> oh we're talking dramatic performance reduction
<BluesKaj> when this pc craps out I'll just get a raspi with all the trimmings and use that as my htpc
<daftykins> http://www.anandtech.com/show/8617/samsung-releases-firmware-update-to-fix-the-ssd-840-evo-read-performance-bug
<daftykins> :D i'd recommend the Amazon FireTV!
<lotuspsychje> hi daftykins
<lotuspsychje> hi Bashing-om
<daftykins> \o hi sir
<daftykins> lotuspsychje: look what's on the way - https://www.dropbox.com/s/zjuf1qlz9ocecks/deskie.JPG?dl=0
<lotuspsychje> lets c
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: holy smokin oO
<lotuspsychje> nice material mate
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> finally pushing the boat out after 9 years with the Q6600
<BluesKaj> not ready for an android box yet , my internet connection is only 6mb so i9t barely handles netflix at ild std def resolution
<BluesKaj> the std def
<daftykins> ah, well i use mine to run Kodi to play my local content from my file server
<daftykins> just earlier today i was putting one in my clients' childs bedroom for doing the same also, where we have over 1,000 films from DVDs all ripped onto a file server
<daftykins> all nicely disclessly available :D
<lotuspsychje>  Model=Samsung SSD 850 PRO 128GB, FwRev=EXM02B6Q, SerialNo=S24ZNXAGC04031J
<BluesKaj> I'm in the boonies so there's only one OTA TV channel in my area, so we're stuck with either sattv or cable
<BluesKaj> I could switch to faster fibre internet and drop the sattv , but wife needs convincing first
<daftykins> BluesKaj: what's the damage on getting fiber in? is it already at your door?
<daftykins> sorry damage being a British colloquialism for cost :D
<BluesKaj> it's the distribution box in my front yard , on the easement portion of the property , so it's copper wire from there
<BluesKaj> but fibre to the dist box
<daftykins> oh so you might get VDSL tech like i have here?
<BluesKaj> it would be about 85bucks cdn for 50mb/mos
<daftykins> how does that compare to the current satellite service?
<BluesKaj> dunno what the data cap is tho
<lotuspsychje> i got 50mbit vdsl2 + phone+tv for 39 euros
<lotuspsychje> no data limits
<BluesKaj> sat service is 60/mos for my packages which is quite minimal , no sports or US news packs etc,but it suffices for our tv habits
<BluesKaj> dropped cnn and those other US news channels plus the sports chans were very expensive
<daftykins> i'll bet!
<BluesKaj> our total phone, internet and tv is 125/mos , so we basically cut it in half 18mos ago by switcjing internet and phone provders and those tv chans
<daftykins> i don't even use a TV service here
<daftykins> thankfully right now i don't have to pay the BBC if i don't watch their live TV services
<BluesKaj> we're retired on fixed income and tired of being fleeced here
<BluesKaj> daftykins, cool free tv is the way to go :-)
<daftykins> you can use their catchup services, i don't really tend to do that either
<daftykins> sometimes i used to check out the local BBC news but hearing about a cow falling over in a field got old ;)
<BluesKaj> LOL
<BluesKaj> :-0
<lotuspsychje> bbl guys, movietimes :p
<lotuspsychje> have a nice one
<BluesKaj> yeah , later guys , going shopping..take care
<Bashing-om> chrome-repo
<Bashing-om> !chrome-repo
<ubot5`> Google recently deprecated 32-bit Chrome, which causes errors on 64-bit multiarch Ubuntu systems. To fix this, run:   sudo sed -i 's/deb http/deb [arch=amd64] http/' /etc/apt/sources.list.d/google-chrome.list /opt/google/chrome/cron/google-chrome
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-04-06
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> morning baizon and dax
<dax> morning
<baizon> hi hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> http://www.infoworld.com/article/3050845/microsoft-windows/microsoft-embraces-linux-way-too-late.html
<lotuspsychje> dax: could it be interesting to have a trigger for !insights https://insights.ubuntu.com/ Your source for Ubuntu news, articles, tutorials, e-books and everything else in-between.?
<dax> is that the one that's an aggregator for canonical blogs
<lotuspsychje> i think so, official news comes there
<dax> i do not find such a thing useful but you are welcome to convince other ops otherwise
<lotuspsychje> dax: okay no sweat
<lotuspsychje> rilleh: welcome :p
<rilleh> Cheers
<lotuspsychje> rilleh: the idea is we do alot of support always, but never actually have the chance to talk, so here we are
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/kde-plasma-5-7-desktop-environment-to-land-on-july-5-have-five-point-releases-502618.shtml
<lotuspsychje> bbl guys
<lotuspsychje> rilleh: add to favs, and welcome :p
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<lotuspsychje> hey there pauljw
<lotuspsychje> hi BluesKaj and cfhowlett
<pauljw> morning lotuspsychje
<cfhowlett> hey hey hey lotuspsychje
<BluesKaj> hey lotuspsychje, pauljw
<BluesKaj> cfhowlett,
<pauljw> hi BluesKaj
<pauljw> everyone.. :)
<BluesKaj> winter has returned here , snowing again , just below freezing , it was 15C last week
<lotuspsychje> here its raining for the whole week
<lotuspsychje> after being spring/sunny
<BluesKaj> more snow in april than december
<BluesKaj> weird
<lotuspsychje> weather is crazy
<pauljw> it is weird isn't it, we're looking at rain/snow mix late this week too.  and lots of wind lately.
<BluesKaj> a lot of people have removed their winter tires already...too early
<lotuspsychje> new netbook screenshot: http://lotuspsychje.deviantart.com/art/Ubuntu-16-04-64bit-Development-branch-601374206
<pauljw> lotuspsychje, nice looking system.  16.04 still doing well?
<lotuspsychje> pauljw: very stable
<pauljw> :)
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-04-07
<DaniKitten> Hello
<daftykins> lo
<DaniKitten> How do I can help on IRC chat?
<daftykins> ask in #freenode
<tsimonq2> http://community.ubuntu.com/contribute/support/irc/ for Ubuntu
<tsimonq2> which is what I assume you are asking about
<DaniKitten> Helping people here, being useful for the IRC world
<daftykins> no this is a place for ubuntu discussion, IRC help can be had in the appropriate places
<DaniKitten> well, bye
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/canonical-shows-the-linux-community-how-to-use-ubuntu-bash-on-windows-10-502662.shtml
<dax> i should probably grab that
<dax> anyone happen to know if Win10 works on vbox
<lotuspsychje> didnt test myself, but should work
<dax> also, I just made #ubuntu-on-windows for discussion/support. It isn't officially blessed, but it's one of the options we're kicking around for how to support this thing, so if y'all feel like idling in it that is fine
<dax> probably wouldn't forward users there just yet, i'm waiting for someone more important than me to decide what we're doing
<lotuspsychje> dax: nice addy
<lotuspsychje> dax: but im bit skeptical on all this, readed some articles on windows safety and security risks on having bash on a vulnerable system..
<lotuspsychje> dax: i rather put energy in vanilla ubuntu myself :p
<dax> I'll find it usefor for work. Apart from that, I think it's... not something I'd like a distribution I support to invest resources in.
<dax> useful*
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<dax> I just want *something* in place for the near future where this thing comes out of Windows Insider limbo and people start asking about it in #ubuntu
<dax> mainly because I don't want to support it in #ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> dax: some articles also mention, MS reacts way too late also
<lotuspsychje> !ubuwin
<ubot5`> Canonical and Microsoft have announced that Windows 10 will be able to run Ubuntu programs without needing porting/recompilation. This functionality is still in beta and is not currently supported in #ubuntu. For discussion, see #ubuntu-offtopic and/or #ubuntu-discuss.
<dax> (that'll get updated once we figured out if/where we *are* gonna support it for definite)
<lotuspsychje> yep
<lotuspsychje> dax: perhaps the #ubuntu-devel guys know more of this all? where to catch somebody?
<dax> i get the impression it's literally just kirkland :|
<dax> in terms of actual technical knowledge, anyway
<lotuspsychje> ic
<lotuspsychje> !party
<ubot5`> Please remember that #ubuntu, #kubuntu, #xubuntu, #edubuntu, and #lubuntu are support channels. To countdown to !wily release and then party once it happens, join #ubuntu-release-party - For in-person parties, see http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/global/3075/
<lotuspsychje> dax: almost time :p
<lotuspsychje> and 3 LTS versions in topic, rocknroll
<lotuspsychje> xenial reboot
<lotuspsychje> morning Noah`
<ladyTalus> Hello!
<lotuspsychje> welcome
<lotuspsychje> ladyTalus: i more like electronic music
<ladyTalus> Intelligent Dance Music (IDM)?
<ladyTalus> Or more like Blackmill?
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> techno
<ladyTalus> didn't know anyone still listened to techno.
<ladyTalus> like pacman music?
<lotuspsychje> lolll
<lotuspsychje> i like adam beyer
<ladyTalus> Outstanding. My headphones are fairly good quality AKG ones. Together with the Behringer device the sound is really quite impressive for what I've spent.
<ladyTalus> http://www.amazon.com/AKG-240-Semi-Open-Studio-Headphones/dp/B0001ARCFA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1460012121&sr=8-1&keywords=akg+headphones
<ladyTalus> Wow! What a deal.
<ladyTalus> These are the ones I use.
<ladyTalus> Only $60 right now.
<ladyTalus> AKG makes very comfortable headphones.
<ladyTalus> If you want to pay half you can go with these ones: http://www.amazon.com/AKG-Pro-Audio-K77-Headphones/dp/B00187PRFC/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1460012121&sr=8-9&keywords=akg+headphones
<ladyTalus> But I'd rather pay $60 for the first ones.
<ladyTalus> They're definitely in another league.
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/you-can-now-have-a-single-live-iso-image-with-all-the-ubuntu-14-04-4-lts-flavors-502661.shtml
<rilleh> lotuspsychje: I saw Adam Beyer this weekend
<rilleh> :)
<rilleh> I absolutely love Techno
<lotuspsychje> rilleh: really, where?
<rilleh> Stockholm
<rilleh> A festival called Stockholm Love Affair
<lotuspsychje> pretty nice, ill grab it when online
<lotuspsychje> rilleh: did you listen one og his latest milano sets?
<rilleh> Maceo Plex, Sven VÃ¤th, Adam Beyer Dubfire and more
<rilleh> From his podcast?
<rilleh> Yes
<lotuspsychje> absolutely amazing :p
<rilleh> Very good set :)
<rilleh> I listen to it every week
<lotuspsychje> well i not every week, but got alot of sets of him
<lotuspsychje> best dj in the world in my opnion
<lotuspsychje> rilleh: you know mixing.dj ?
<rilleh> No
<lotuspsychje> rilleh: http://mixing.dj/livesets/adam-beyer/
<rilleh> Cool, cheers
<lotuspsychje> :p
<rilleh> I usually just use soundcloud
<lotuspsychje> yeah well soundcloud is bit laggy sometimes
<rilleh> And the app is useless
<rilleh> And now content is getting blocked inside paywalls
<rilleh> So I guess it's time to move on
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> rilleh:
<lotuspsychje> http://mixing.dj/livesets/techno/
<lotuspsychje> but im sticking to adam in most cases :p
<rilleh> Adam's usual style is somewhat to techy for me
<rilleh> I like the more industrial/acid stuff
<rilleh> But no doubt he's a good musician and has performed some incredible sets over the years
<lotuspsychje> got an example of a set you like?
<rilleh> https://soundcloud.com/invite-1/invites-choice-podcast-344-cleric
<rilleh> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDZAJf3nbZ8
<lotuspsychje> rilleh: starting nicely :p
<rilleh> That Cleric set is probably my favourite one right now
<rilleh> So good
<rilleh> Nice to see a fellow Techno head, we are few but a dedicated bunch :)
<lotuspsychje> rilleh: yeah im totaly into non-comercial music
<lotuspsychje> rilleh: added your set to favs, sounds good
<lotuspsychje> got bit goa feeling in some parts :p
<lotuspsychje> rilleh: if you like dark & rough sets: https://soundcloud.com/torstenkanzler/torsten-kanzler-kanzlernacht
<lotuspsychje> this one of my favs :p
<rilleh> Cheers, I'll give it a listen
<lotuspsychje> rilleh: your set @ 48 is amazing
<rilleh> 48 minutes?
<lotuspsychje> yes
<rilleh> :)
<rilleh> Proper Techno
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> love it
<lotuspsychje> you probably heared it already, but in case you missed: https://soundcloud.com/drumcoderadio/dcr173-drumcode-radio-live
<lotuspsychje> one of his best also
<rilleh> His Berghain sets are usually a bit darker
<lotuspsychje> yeah i like dark
<rilleh> Because people in Berghain don't tolerate that melodic stuff :)
<lotuspsychje> ah
<rilleh> Ever been to Berghain?
<lotuspsychje> no, i hear they are very picky about entering the club
<rilleh> They even put a strip of tape over the camera on your phone
<rilleh> If you take pictures you get banned
<lotuspsychje> wow
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<lotuspsychje> rilleh: so we enter the club with a google glass lol
<BluesKaj> hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> rilleh: or a james bond watch to film
<lotuspsychje> http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/nvidia-releases-the-364-15-beta-linux-graphics-driver-to-fix-a-wayland-issue-502655.shtml
<rilleh> lotuspsychje: DCR173 is golden
<lotuspsychje> yeah :p
<rilleh> The hihat kick at 15:22
<rilleh> <3
<rilleh> hi-hat*
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> hi cfhowlett
<cfhowlett> derp
<lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: new netbook shot: http://lotuspsychje.deviantart.com/art/Ubuntu-16-04-64bit-Development-branch-601374206
<cfhowlett> ah yes.  ye ole desktop pron.           :)
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> bbl shopping
<lotuspsychje> re
<lotuspsychje> http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/libreoffice-5-1-2-officially-released-with-over-80-bug-fixes-and-improvements-502679.shtml
<lotuspsychje_> good afternoon baizon
<baizon> hi lotuspsychje_
<lotuspsychje> bbl moviez
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-04-08
<Kellyni> What do you make of this?
<Kellyni> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkZvYglefsU
<dax> i think this is not really on-topic for #ubuntu-discuss
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> the new xenial wallpapers: http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-16-04-lts-xenial-xerus-default-wallpapers-revealed-gallery-502692.shtml
<Ben64> hmm... i have an ssd in this machine now, just got a replacement
<Ben64> 240 -> 500GB.... what's the easiest way to migrate?
<Ben64> could dd the whole thing, but then i'd want to move partitions around a little
<dax> dd and then do partition manipulation with gparted afterwards?
<Ben64> i suppose, but there's got to be a better way
<Ben64> make partitions, dd over grub, dd over sdx1, dd over sdx2, fsck?
<dax> i usually just put in new drive and restore from backup tbh
<dax> how is that easier than what i said
<Ben64> well less writes
<dax> is there stuff on the source disk other than sdx1 and sdx2
<Ben64> nope
<dax> how is that less writes :\
<Ben64> if i dd'd the whole thing over, then i'd move sdx2 start position, that's like writing sdx2 all over again
<dax> oh, you want to make sdx1 bigger
<Ben64> yeah
<dax> meh, it's not enough writes that i'd care personally
<dax> i guess you could if you want
<Ben64> i'm the guy who actually fills up the root partition somehow
<dax> i just don't have a /home partition so *shrug*
<Ben64> oh
<Ben64> new ssd is rated for 1 Petabyte of writes
<Ben64> yeah, i suppose that's fine
<lotuspsychje> Ben64: wich brand did you buy?
<Ben64> samsung 850 evo
<lotuspsychje> i bought the 850 pro 128gig few days ago :p
<Ben64> fancy
<lotuspsychje> 94 euro
<Ben64> 850 evo 500GB $140
<lotuspsychje> neat price
<Ben64> yeah, my old 240GB one is going to my mom's computer which i'm going to revive the next couple days
<lotuspsychje> also linux, or she on windows?
<Ben64> after repeatedly having to fix the windows problems on her computer, ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> nicee
<Ben64> was working fine till the old 400GB sata drive died
<lotuspsychje> Ben64: wich brand died? im always curious
 * Ben64 walks over to it
<Ben64> ouch, seagate
<lotuspsychje> oh oh
<Ben64> 4th seagate to die for me in the past year?
<lotuspsychje> what the...
<Ben64> i have lots of hard drives
<lotuspsychje> i never had a dead seagate before weird
<Ben64> what really
<Ben64> and one folder i didn't back up properly and lost some stuff :(
<dax> we stopped buying seagates at work
<Ben64> although might be able to hack a fix
<dax> apparently all of our seagates died so that lotuspsychje's didn't have to
<Ben64> seems like a firmware/board/chip/something problem
<lotuspsychje> dax: wich drives your company buys usually then?
<dax> WD
<Ben64> last two drives i bought were hitachi/hgst now
<dax> enterprisy ones, i forget the exact model
<lotuspsychje> i had many dead WD before, wd books, and old types wd's under 100gig
<Ben64> yeah they seem to go in waves
<elky> WD external stuff isn't enterprise
<lotuspsychje> thats why i bought the 850 pro, 10 years warranty
<Ben64> the problem is spinny drives are just bad
<Ben64> but you can't beat that price/GB
<dax> yeah, warranties on our WDs are 5 years. so we don't really care if they break
<dax> plus we have more hot swaps than we can count so while they're busy overnighting to us we're fine
<lotuspsychje> dax: how many gigs are those wd enterprise?
<dax> 4TB
<lotuspsychje> wows
<lotuspsychje> big change against those oldskool wd raptors lol
<lotuspsychje> laterz
<Ben65> :D 230MB/s dd from ssd1 to ssd2
<Ben64> after a little boot-repair for some reason, it works!
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<Bashing-om> o/ BluesKaj . Top o' the morn'n to ya .
<Bashing-om> !netflix
<ubot5`> If you use Netflix, there is an unofficial solution for using it in Ubuntu detailed in http://www.compholio.com/netflix-desktop/ - bug reports in https://bugs.launchpad.net/netflix-desktop
<BluesKaj> Hey Bashing-om, how's things oday?
<BluesKaj> today even :-)
<Bashing-om> Here, and that is a good thing .. considering going back to bed and finish my nap .. that would be a good thing too .
<DaniKitten> Hello
<DaniKitten> Well, Tell me if this is true or false. My computer with 1 GB RAM runs Ubuntu 12.04. If I change to Lubuntu on April 2017, I will be good. True or false?
<DaniKitten> With support
<DaniKitten> "Good" means for me "with support"
<Bashing-om> DaniKitten: " If I change to Lubuntu on April 2017," 16.04 ?
<DaniKitten> The newest version on April 2017
<Ben64> the newest version will probably be 17.04, but you'll probably want 16.04
<Bashing-om> DaniKitten: Good chance good .. but need to ask that in #ubuntu+1 channel .
<DaniKitten> LTS is better
<daftykins> nothing will run well on 1GB RAM
<DaniKitten> Why
<daftykins> because that has been a poor amount of RAM for the last x years
<Ben64> 1GB was kind of low 10 years ago
<daftykins> *nod*
<DaniKitten> I spend a lot of money buying a business 1 GB RAM laptop and someone says that "Nothing run well on 1 GB RAM"
<daftykins> it's time to let the mini go
<daftykins> a mini is *not* business.
<DaniKitten> HP 2140
<DaniKitten> Tell me about it
<Ben64> oh that's slow
<TJ-> depends what you want to do with it; I have perfectly usable Vaio notebooks with 384MB of RAM!
<daftykins> that is a very bad netbook
<Ben64> you should look to get a better computer by april 2017
<DaniKitten> And I don't want a newer computer because some new laptops have compatibility issues with FreeDOS or DOS legacy functions
<daftykins> there have been kernel regressions ruining the 945 express chipset for the last 3+ years, i don't think that machine will ever be usable again
<daftykins> so keep that one around for DOS only.
<DaniKitten> That's hard, because is too good for using only DOS, but is too slow to run modern OS
<DaniKitten> 1 GB RAM
<daftykins> yep time to retire it
<DaniKitten> And was my favorite PC for a big time
<DaniKitten> Except if I buy a new 2 GB RAM
<DaniKitten> for my laptop
<DaniKitten> Most laptops can be upgraded
<Ben64> ram isn't the only problem with it
<daftykins> no it's old DDR2 so it will be prohibitively expensive, plus as i said the kernel has regressed so the motherboard chipset inside it is now useless
<DaniKitten> And the manual says: "The HP Mini 2133 can use from 512 MB to 2 GB RAM. The 2140 Ran use only 1 or 2 GB RAM"
<DaniKitten> And the manual says: "The HP Mini 2133 can use from 512 MB to 2 GB RAM. The 2140 can use only 1 or 2 GB RAM"
<Ben64> the cpu itself is slower than a pentium 3
<DaniKitten> Yeah... the CPU
<DaniKitten> My CPU
<DaniKitten> the expensive CPU now is trash
<Ben64> "expensive"
<DaniKitten> About 450 US dollars
<Ben64> in 2008?
<daftykins> you have enquired about this same system multiple times - and multiple users have given the same advice each time, nobody can in good conscience suggest that keeping that system for Linux use is a wise decision
<DaniKitten> That PC is 2008, is a big reason for still having it
<daftykins> based on what?
<DaniKitten> Someday, will be known as "One of the first laptops being Mini"
<DaniKitten> Just think on those PCs with 1 MB RAM or less
<daftykins> i disagree, i was supporting ultraportables from Sony for years before netbooks came out
<Ben64> netbooks had a tiny window where they were worthwhile. before phones got really good, and before tablets existed
<DaniKitten> Now the people spend a lot of money buying too new machines, while I better want to save money... maybe on a laptop
<DaniKitten> A 2015 or older laptop because "Older is cheaper"
<Ben64> laptops aren't really good choices on saving money
<DaniKitten> Yeah
<daftykins> however less than $200 US can buy a far more capable system than a netbook
<DaniKitten> But, I will buy a laptop, because smartphones aren't IBM PC compatible
<DaniKitten> Well, thanks for the info. Bye
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-04-09
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/infographic-ubuntu-linux-is-everywhere-502722.shtml
<Ben64> heh, thought this was #ubuntu at first, like cmon thats not on topic
<lotuspsychje> lol
<Ben64> thats neat though, didn't know more than half of that
<lotuspsychje> yeah some nice features
<Ben64> just need more consumers
<lotuspsychje> Ben64: did your ssd upgrade turnout well?
<Ben64> it went weird for a bit
<Ben64> had to reinstall grub for some reason
<lotuspsychje> howso
<Ben64> dd should have copied it over, dunno what happened
<lotuspsychje> did an clone of an existing install?
<Ben64> yep
<lotuspsychje> ah
<lotuspsychje> i always clean on ssd'd
<Ben64> then got kernel panic during scheduled fstrim
<Ben64> but it's been fine since then
<lotuspsychje> never seen that one befor
<Ben64> noticed high io, checked iotop
<Ben64> fstrim was at the top, then bam, scroll lock+ caps lock
<lotuspsychje> wow
<Ben64> still got my old ssd in case something explodes
<lotuspsychje> i run xenial 64bit on both machines here, fast as rocket :p
<lotuspsychje> 6sec boot, 3sec halt
<lotuspsychje> http://lotuspsychje.deviantart.com/
<Ben64> what ssd
<Ben64> and i wouldn't have thought you were a unity person
<Ben64> oh 850 pro, says at the bottom
<lotuspsychje> Ben64: samsung evo 840  120 in desktop, samsung 850 pro 128gig in netbook
<lotuspsychje> yep got used to unity :p
<Ben64> they can pry gnome-fallback from my cold dead hands :P
<lotuspsychje> :p
<Ben64> i'm very particular about my setup
<lotuspsychje> thats flavor for every need :p
<lotuspsychje> Ben64: moms pc did well also?
<Ben64> haven't done that yet, i came down with the plague or something similar
<lotuspsychje> kk
<Ben64> called out sick today and yesterday
<Ben64> first sick days since.... maybe ever
<Ben64> wanted to call out sick from best buy one black friday, but if you've ever worked retail... that's impossible
<lotuspsychje> yeah had lungue issues myself lately
<lotuspsychje> http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/ubuntubsd-is-looking-to-become-an-official-ubuntu-flavor-502746.shtml
<lotuspsychje> and yet another one want to become official flavor
<lotuspsychje> morning dax
<dax> hihi
<lotuspsychje> !isitoutyet
<ubot5`> No, it's not out yet!
<Ben64> cool, transferring disk image over ssh at ~55MB/s
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<BluesKaj_> whoa, my desktop system crashed and froze at the login, now i have to startx in the tty/vt to get a desktop with upstart in the kernel version
<DaniKitten> Hello
<DaniKitten> And I found some problem
<DaniKitten> My Intel have double-core
<DaniKitten> A DOS program for check the CPU speed says that the CPU runs like a 802 Mhz Intel 486
<DaniKitten> But the DOS program does not check both cores
<DaniKitten> Puppy Linux does not uses double core, but Ubuntu yes
<DaniKitten> And 800 * 2 = 1600
<DaniKitten> 1600 Mhz = 1.6 Ghz
<DaniKitten> The box says that the CPU runs up to 1.6 Ghz
<DaniKitten> And an old Windows program for checking the CPU speed says 1596 Mhz
<DaniKitten> So, 1.6 Ghz is not slow
<DaniKitten> RAM DDR2 at 667 Mhz is slow?
<daftykins> lol.
<daftykins> !broadcom
<ubot5`> Help with Broadcom bcm43xx can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/Driver/bcm43xx
<nicomachus> !vpn
<ubot5`> For more information on vpn please refer to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VPN
<nicomachus> !releases
<ubot5`> Ubuntu releases a new version every 6 months. Each version is supported for 9 months (non-LTS) or 5 years (LTS). More info at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases & http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases
<DaniKitten> How slow is RAM DDR2 @ 667 MHz
<DaniKitten> How slow is RAM DDR2 @ 667 MHz?
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-04-10
<daftykins> DaniKitten: your previous comments about 1.6GHz not being slow are entirely false, MHz is not a measure of speed but more a measure of opportunity
<daftykins> now, this channel is really for the discussion of #ubuntu - not a hardware lesson class, maybe check out ##hardware
<daftykins> also DOS will not handle multi core
<DaniKitten> Hello?
<cfhowlett> ?
<DaniKitten> Just checking what does Ubuntu 15.10
<cfhowlett> ask #ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> big xenial update 170mb
<lotuspsychje> good sunday baizon
<baizon> hello lotuspsychje :D
<lotuspsychje> updating xenial :p
<baizon> phi, got it already for a month :D
<baizon> 0 bugs
<lotuspsychje> same here
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic xenial
<ubot5`> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.4.0.18.19 (xenial), package size 2 kB, installed size 11 kB
<lotuspsychje> aha .34 upcomming :p
<lotuspsychje> kernel reboot on samsung 850 pro..be back real quick :p
<lotuspsychje> back :p
<lotuspsychje> lotuspsychje@R00TBOOK:~$ uname -a
<lotuspsychje> Linux R00TBOOK 4.4.0-18-generic #34-Ubuntu SMP Wed Apr 6 14:01:02 UTC 2016 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
<baizon> lotuspsychje: did you upgrade from 15.10?
<lotuspsychje> baizon: no, both boxes fresh
<baizon> ou ok
<lotuspsychje> baizon: can you check something on gnome-terminal for me?
<baizon> lotuspsychje: yep, what is it?
<lotuspsychje> baizon: open few new tabs on it ctrl shift t
<baizon> yes
<lotuspsychje> baizon: do you see tab highlight on active one?
<lotuspsychje> or all the same?
<tsimonq2> lotuspsychje: you just upgrade to Xenial or something?
<baizon> what do you mean with "tab highlight"?
<baizon> or what do you expect?
<lotuspsychje> tsimonq2: no, clean install why?
 * tsimonq2 has been running Xenial since the day Wily came out :D
<lotuspsychje> baizon: well the current tab your on, should be colored or something
<tsimonq2> its' really solid
<tsimonq2> *it's
<baizon> tsimonq2: yes its solid
<lotuspsychje> yep yep
<lotuspsychje> baizon: a user just found this bug, no tab highlight
<baizon> lotuspsychje: well it highlighted that im on that tab, but the lines are very thin
<lotuspsychje> hmm
<lotuspsychje> baizon: can yous creenshot that plz?
<baizon> i guess it depends on the theme
<baizon> lotuspsychje: https://i.imgur.com/dFgn3Su.png
<baizon> as you can see im on the right tab now
<lotuspsychje> baizon: ah..i see the roundings yes
<baizon> yep
<lotuspsychje> baizon: tnx for testing
<baizon> lotuspsychje: np
<lotuspsychje> baizon: bit confusing thin lines :p
<baizon> i do agree, they are really thin
<baizon> or the background color for the inactive tabs should be more different
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> baizon: anyway the user put a new bug, they might look into it
<baizon> ok
<lotuspsychje> ooh cool, new wallpapers showing after dist-upgrade :p
<baizon> heh
<baizon> *hehe
<baizon> never used them :D
<lotuspsychje> baizon: you dont set a wall?
<lotuspsychje> or just the default
<baizon> lotuspsychje: i got my one default for years now :D
<lotuspsychje> :p
<MisterSanderson> Hello!
<MisterSanderson> I watn information, not technical support, for 16.04. Should I ask here, or on #unbuntu+1?
<baizon> MisterSanderson: ask here
<MisterSanderson> OK. Why was Brasero removed from 16.04? The wiki page about 16.04 does not expains.
<baizon> MisterSanderson: its droped from the defaults, you can install it
<MisterSanderson> Hm!
<MisterSanderson> But, why was it dropped?
<baizon> MisterSanderson: "Both of these projects have been unmaintained for a long time, and this is well known"
<MisterSanderson> Where did you find this text?
<baizon> MisterSanderson: http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-16-04-drops-brasero-and-empathy-gnome-calendar-to-be-adopted-495782.shtml
<Mrsanderson> This texts talks about devs mentioning the replacement of Fireox. Is it true that was discussed sometime?
<baizon> Mrsanderson: yes it was, but firefox will stay default
<Mrsanderson> What they wanted to put in the place?
<baizon> Mrsanderson: they thought about chromium
<MisterSanderson> Hm...
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<MisterSanderson> Why were Brasero and Empathy unmantained?
<baizon> MisterSanderson: well you would have to ask the devs
<MisterSanderson> Hm, but "Ubuntu Store" I can ask here, right?
<BluesKaj> MisterSanderson, ask in #ubuntu-devel
<EriC^^> evening Bashing-om :)
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: Thanky ... Hoz it been going in the channel ?, How be it in your world ?
<EriC^^> pretty busy tonight, it's alright
<EriC^^> yourself?
<Bashing-om> Well, let me get settled in, see what I can do to help .. Me, all my problems are little, nothing that time and money will not resolve ( new Graphics card and an SSD on the wish list ) .
<EriC^^> nice
<BluesKaj> Bashing-om, you won't regret those choices. Which gpu do you have your eye on?
<Bashing-om> BluesKaj: A " EVGA GeForce GT 710 " will do me nicely :)
<Bashing-om> rethink'n the SSD choice, as I learn more about SSDs .
<BluesKaj> Bashing-om, yup nvidia ftw
<BluesKaj> ati cards were great on linux until amd bought them, now linux support has sort of wavered
<Bashing-om> BluesKaj: Presently ATI is bending over backwards to support ubuntu with the open source driver. But there are a lot of pains making this work out. ATI will not be making the move for FGLRX drivers for the new kernel stack . I am the more comfortable/knowledgeable with Nvidia . Though a long time ATI user .
<BluesKaj> Bashing-om, yrah 10 yr s ago I was using ati gpus on 2 linux machines and support was great
<daftykins> heya \o
<daftykins> i'd always seen ATI cards had issues from the outset :D
<EriC^^> hey daftykins
<daftykins> hello there! what's new?
<BluesKaj> I see a lot of grumbling on the support chats about amd gpus noadays, and I know they can work but the linux drivers are inconsistent acroos their product line.
<BluesKaj> hi daftykins
<EriC^^> daftykins: not much! yourself?
<BluesKaj> hi EriC^^
<daftykins> nah much the same here :) got my old laptop on the TV to stream some baseball today though!
<Bashing-om> Back in the day, AMD worked closely with open source, then ATI bought the graphic's division, and just did not care then to put the effort into open souce .
<EriC^^> hi BluesKaj
<EriC^^> daftykins: nice
<BluesKaj> heh, I thought ati was a grphics centered company, then amd bought them
<daftykins> yeah that's correct
<daftykins> AMD wanted to boost their integrated graphics by gaining ATI's intellectual property
<daftykins> no we have the so called "APUs" from AMD that contain very capable graphics hardware, at least in Windows anyway
<BluesKaj> looking at a nvidia shield tv box in case we decide to "cut the cord" ...the only thing holdig me back is changing our internet provider from 6md adsl to the cable co fiber optic line, which means we may have to change our voip phone service too....these kinds of switcheroos are always a pita.
<daftykins> but the speeeeeeed BluesKaj :D
<BluesKaj> yeah
<archonii> Am I doing as good thing buy building my computer while barefoot out on the lawn, working on a picnic table?
<archonii> Does this greatly reduce the chance of static damage?
<cfhowlett> there is a build your pc reddit channel.  aks the
<archonii> I don't use reddit.
<daftykins> that is not a good approach, no
<daftykins> i would not be outdoors
<daftykins> you should ask in ##hardware :)
<archonii> Why would you not be outdoors?
<archonii> Is the sun going to damage my delicate components?
<cfhowlett> why WOULD you do hardware stuff outdoors?  look around?  do you see a whole lot of people cracking the cases of their favorite devices outside?
<daftykins> archonii: ok you're obviously a troll, enjoy
<cfhowlett> +1
<archonii> cfhowlett, I told you w hy.
<archonii> Because when you stand barefoot on the earth your electrical charge drops to 0.
<cfhowlett> archonii,asked and answered.   move on to UBUNTU support or go the the correct channel
<archonii> Frankly the last computer I built I did so indoors without any grounding and now I hate to say it but it's dragging.
<archonii> Firefox is using 108% of the CPU and 2.5GB of RAM.
<daftykins> i'd comment on that, but this isn't a support channel
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-04-03
<Bashing-om> done - nite nite all
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> working day guys, have a nice one!
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> morning all
<pavlushka> Good Morning ducasse lordievader
<ikevin> morning pavlushka
<ducasse> \o
<lordievader> Hey pavlushka, ikevin, ducasse
<lordievader> How are you all?
<ikevin> hey lordievader
<ikevin> all good here and you?
<lordievader> Doing good, got coffee?
<lordievader> :)*
<ducasse> hi lordievader, good thanks. what's up in your part of the world?
<daftykins> morn \o
<lordievader> ducasse: Work ;)
<ikevin> oh yes, coffee is needed on monday morning :)
<lordievader> Hey daftykins
<ducasse> \o daftykins
<daftykins> i've just booked a short overnight trip to Glasgow to see a band :D
<daftykins> this is exciting
<daftykins> i've never been up north before :P
<ducasse> cool, what band?
<daftykins> The Cranberries
<ducasse> long time since i heard any of their stuff
<lordievader> They are still active?
<lordievader> Wow
<daftykins> i know right :D
<daftykins> seems they've turned some of their classics into more ochestral things with string quartet backing
<daftykins> could be a neat spin :>
<daftykins> wasn't cheap to get off the island mind you
<ducasse> could be interesting :) when is this?
<daftykins> end of May
<daftykins> i don't know anyone that's a fan so i'm just going alone so far :>
<ducasse> daftykins: out of curiosity, what's the best live performance you've seen?
<daftykins> i've only ever been to Explosions in the Sky in Brighton many moons ago
<daftykins> lots of local non-famous stuff though
<ducasse> i must have been to well over 200 concerts in total
<daftykins> :o
<ducasse> lots of friends who worked in the music scene in oslo, so i got free tickets etc :)
<daftykins> oh very nice!
<ducasse> certainly came in handy :) it's been years since i lived in oslo, so i don't see many concerts any more.
<daftykins> too pricey to stay central is it?
<ducasse> yes, but more other strong reasons i rather not get into in a publicly logged channel :)
<daftykins> :>
<pavlushka> Morning ikevin :)
<BluesKaj> Howdy all
<daftykins> \o wb
<BluesKaj> 'Morning daftykins
<daftykins> all well with yourself?
<BluesKaj> yes, fine here, and you ?
<ducasse> hi BluesKaj :)
<BluesKaj> hey ducasse
<daftykins> yep ticking along thanks!
<BluesKaj> good to hear daftykins , and how about you ducasse?
<daftykins> oh he might have just put his head down for a nap if he doesn't reply
<ducasse> BluesKaj: good, thanks, just a little tired :)
<BluesKaj> We had a big time with guest musicians on fri night ...still feeling the effects :-)
<BluesKaj> jam
<BluesKaj> too old to handle it ....need some self discipline
<BluesKaj> in other words I deank too much
<BluesKaj> drank
<daftykins> hehehe
<daftykins> BluesKaj: i was telling ducasse that on a whim i booked to go and see a band, The Cranberries, up in Scotland at the end of May! very exciting
 * BluesKaj puts the urge to self destruct away for another 2 weeks
<BluesKaj> The Cranberries..yes, haven't heard about them in quite a while ... excellent, good to hear they're still active
<daftykins> mmm they did put out another album in 2012, but i don't think it shattered any records
<ducasse> oh man. i lost a contact lens, and the cleaning solution hurts like a b***h for a few minutes after you put it back in :-/
<ducasse> i look like a close relative died.
<daftykins> :(
<daftykins> anyone but the kitty!
<ducasse> oh, she's fine :) she's soooo happy spring is here, she's taken up her favorite spot i made for her on the porch.
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> Mischief is currently to the left of me, sat in the sun spot from the window
<ducasse> put a couple of pillows on a chair, she sleeps there all day long :)
<daftykins> d'aww that sounds like heaven
<BluesKaj> well, that was an exercise in futility, when did pulseaudio become a Unity Desktop dependency ?
<ducasse> maybe to support bluetooth audio stuff?
<acheron-a> why? did you delete it?
<acheron-a> i see pulseadio is running as a service
<acheron-a> i process i mean
<ducasse> he was helping a guy where pulse might have been causing problems
<acheron-a> ahh
<acheron-a> i know for some sound / hardware configs, it can be confusing to linux
<acheron-a> like this computer here has 4 audio outputs, line, display port 1, display port 2 and HDMI
<BluesKaj> pulse is literally blocking some of his options, altho he has an unusual audio configuration ..read alienware :/
<daftykins> ruh roh
<acheron-a> yeah, and then with alsamixer, you have to go in and adjust it every time you boot i wish there was some way to make those changes persistent because pulse audio seems to over ride them
<BluesKaj> acheron-a, in ubuntu one can solidify alsa settings to some degree in /etc/modprobe.d/asla-base.conf
<acheron-a> fortunate for this system, ubuntu handles it well and just presents the line output
<BluesKaj> right, ordinary audio HW is handled quite well by alsa and PA
<BluesKaj> exotic audio chips aren't well served in linux ...even windows has difficulties with them
<acheron-a> ture
<acheron-a> true i mean
<daftykins> can't think of anyone who uses anything beyond onboard :>
<daftykins> well, sometimes you get folks with those external DAC things
<BluesKaj> I have a m-audio pci that was using for a while, but it became too complex due the inability to blacklist the onboard audio
<BluesKaj> I haven't tried it for some time , maybe i can configure a workaround
<lordievader> daftykins: External DACs are lovely :D
<lordievader> BluesKaj: If you use PA you can simply disable one of the two soundcards.
<BluesKaj> lordievader, yes, but I don't use pulse
<BluesKaj> you guys on ubuntu unity  are dependent on it, which i was surprised to learn this morning ...Poettering really has his clwas into Ubuntu/Unity
<BluesKaj> claws even
<lordievader> Kmixer is also adopting more and more features of Pulseaudio.
<lordievader> Quite nice, imo.
<BluesKaj> anyway, icould probly work something , but my audio setup is working fien on the intel audio setup onboard
<daftykins> i'm sure someone recently said something about lubuntu breaking due to missing a dependancy on PA too - could be my memory though
<lordievader> I found out today I could use my vpn and pulseaudio to stream audio to my home speakers from anywhere I am.
<OerHeks> that was firefox
<lordievader> Not quite usefull, but funy to see.
<daftykins> heh yeah the remote sound thing was the only point articles could ever come up with as to pluses to PA
<ducasse> sounds like a lot of the newer desktop stuff, 'not useful, but funny' ;)
<daftykins> wobble those windows whilst you stream audio to another room!
<lordievader> The reasoning of Firefox was quite logical on that actually.
<BluesKaj> this audio setup is for my media server connected to my home theater setup so the less complex I can make it the better
<daftykins> OerHeks: ah yeah! :>
<lordievader> Ah, this was the discussion I was looking for, the rationale behind the decision: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/mozilla.dev.platform/jRAqSTri66I
<BluesKaj> but as a media player once setup Kodi decodes all the latest movie codecs like E-AC3/Dolby Digital very nicely. I appreciate the work that's gone into it
<ducasse> this Dreaman character doesn't seem to want to go quietly into that good night...
<BluesKaj> Dreaman?
<ducasse> that guy who now and then has been throwing out irrelevant or wrong advice in the middle of discussions etc. k1l finally banned him half an hour ago, now he's connecting from various anon proxys and trolling him.
<BluesKaj> ducasse, he's in debian and linux chats , but not active atm
<ducasse> seems he gave up in #ubuntu at last, must have run out of endpoints :)
<acheron-a> that guy is just trolling
<Bashing-om> OK, set now to have some fun - see what I can learn this day :)
<ducasse> hiya Bashing-om - how have you been?
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Staying busy . one way or the other .. my world is bright ! Yours ?
<ducasse> the same, finished some translations recently, other than that not much :)
<Bashing-om> Spring is comming on here .. and I am behind with grooming the lawn :( But I will get to it - I promise .
<ducasse> luna (my cat) is super happy about the whole spring business, spends her entire days outside on the porch lying on a pillow in a chair :)
<Bashing-om> Cats, we have our share - set the parakeets down and left unattended . Ebony knocked over the cage and got one of them . Sad, - on the to-do list to replace that pretty .
<acheron-a> hello everyone
<Bashing-om> good day acheron-a .
<nacc> ducasse: funny, we have a dog named luna :)
<nicomachus> I have a cat named Luna!
<nacc> awesome :)
<ducasse> common name, it seems :) she was named luna when i got her from the shelter, so i didn't want to change it.
<nicomachus> ours was like... mocha or latte or something. We changed it to Luna.
<nacc> ours was rogue
<nicomachus> now it's really bothering me that I can't remember her original name.
<nacc> heh
<nicomachus> it was something coffee-related, I think
<nicomachus> she's all black.
<ducasse> i should have changed her name to 'grey, furry eating and sleeping machine'
<nicomachus> lol
<Bashing-om> our Black female cat's name is Ebony :P
<ducasse> she's staring me down right now, hoping for a few treats - she knows i give in easily :)
<nicomachus> BluesKaj: what plugins don't work on Chromium? They should all work the same.
<nicomachus> ducasse: mine do that to me every morning, and every night when I get home from work. even if my girlfriend just gave them some.
<BluesKaj> flash mostly
<nicomachus> oh.
<nicomachus> I don't need flash for anything anymore, but I do keep Chrome around just for that.
<nicomachus> And for Netflix because DRM stuff, but netflix works on FF now
<BluesKaj> nicomachus:  I used to use FF as my default , but since it's changed it's direction I've decided that chrome suits my needs better
<ducasse> i use ff on the desktop and chromium on the laptop, although i'm no longer entirely sure why. it's just the way things are now.
<ducasse> i'm sure there is a _very_ good reason. ;)
<BluesKaj> I seldom use netflix, tried it a couple of times , but their movie selection doesn't appeal to an old fogie like me
<Bashing-om> BluesKaj: I find that chromium runs faster on my system than FF . I went back to chromium from google-chrome .
<BluesKaj> Bashing-om:  never really noticed, but chrome runs much faster than FF and it works
<Bashing-om> BluesKaj: My work flow promotes me to chromium . I am just that much more comforable .
<BluesKaj> well, I'm a n ordinary home user , no workflow to worry about here
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-04-04
<ducasse> good morning all
<EriC^^> morning
<ducasse> morning EriC^^ - how are things?
<EriC^^> ducasse: good thanks you?
<ducasse> ok, thanks. electrician installed smart meter this morning.
<ikevin> hi guys :)
<EriC^^> hey
<BluesKaj> 'Morning folks
<BluesKaj> 'Morning folks
<BluesKaj> 'Morning folks
<BluesKaj> oops
<brunch875> 'Morning BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> Hi brunch875
<nicomachus> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/04/firefox-photon-redesign-mockups
<acheron-a> hello Bashing-om
<daftykins> \o
<Bashing-om> Hey hey acheron-a ; what up ?
<acheron-a> have you got a moment for a couple of questions
<acheron-a> i am still new to ubuntu and don't know all the internals
<Bashing-om> acheron-a: Sure , fire away . ( may not accept the responses though ) .
<daftykins> i'm game too :>
<daftykins> for that little which hasn't changed since i knew it...
<Bashing-om> acheron-a: I been a heavy user for better then 10 years and I still do not know :P
<acheron-a> i noticed that nautilus will just say "Computer" unless there is a machine-info in /etc
<acheron-a> then it picks up the name from that file
<acheron-a> problem is, that file only gets generated if you change the computer name in [System Settings], [All Settings], System => [Details]
<acheron-a> but that would be after the initial install
<acheron-a> you can actually sit there with nautilus open and see the name change while you type it in details
<daftykins> is this something you want when installing Ubuntu for others? because i'd imagine that's what the OEM setup thingy would help with
<acheron-a> but then when you are done, it changes the host name to all lower case!
<daftykins> but off hand i can't see why a name matters so much :)
<nacc> acheron-a: so far you haven't stated the problem
<nacc> acheron-a: so you don't wnat it to be lower case?
<daftykins> hostnames should always be lowercase :)
<acheron-a> then, it should say so in the install!
<daftykins> meh, everything is case sensitive in Linux land so it's always worth bearing in mind
<acheron-a> because the way the install is now, it allows up and lower case
<nacc> acheron-a: what is in the file and what is displayed might be different
<nacc> acheron-a: what variable did you assign to in the file?
<nacc> (it has a manpage btw)
<daftykins> yeah i'm sure it allows both, i'm just saying from experience it should be lower :>
<nacc> also why does it matter what nautilus tells you the current computer's name is?
<acheron-a> yes
<nacc> "Computer" is good enough given that nautilus is browsing locally
<acheron-a> correct, but why did it change when i just wanted to correct my host name
<acheron-a> everything kind of went beserk
<nacc> acheron-a: what did you change and where?
<daftykins> hmm i just change hostname via CLI, not sure of graphical methods
<nacc> acheron-a: and what do you mean berserk? it just changed what was displayed
<nacc> again, actually describe something! :)
<acheron-a> [System Settings], [All Settings], System => [Details], [Overview] Device name
<acheron-a> thats where i changed it
<acheron-a> weren't you paying attention?
<nacc> ok, so you changed the 'device name' in settings
<nacc> what do you think 'went berserk'?
<daftykins> acheron-a: i'm talking about how you're supposed to, not how you chose to do it
<acheron-a> try it for yourself and see
<nacc> and what did you put in that field?
<daftykins> acheron-a: btw your language is extremely rude.
<nacc> no, i'm not going to change my system's hostname just to test out something
<acheron-a> you can do it in a live boot
<acheron-a> i was double checking it today
<nacc> again, *what* went berserk?
<daftykins> well it could've been fixed since a live ISO, so would be best on a fully updated VM
<daftykins> not necessarily fixed but changed
<acheron-a> forget it guys
<acheron-a> sorry i brought it up
<daftykins> you're behaving very strangely
<nacc> feels like you don't want to answer the simplest of questions
 * nacc assumes trolling
<acheron-a> you guys just want to argue with me instead of checking out my questions
<daftykins> i'm not going to install a VM and mess about with a completely useless feature just because you want it to say something other than 'computer'
<daftykins> fucking ridiculous.
 * nacc isn't arguing -- i would like an actual explanation of what is expected and what happened
<nacc> which doesn't seem forthcoming
<nacc> as i said, trolling (or the equivalent) and moving on now
<Bashing-om> acheron-a: You "assume" we have access to what you see ... far from the case . For example presently I boot xubuntu . no nautilus here .
 * nacc basically has a desktop environment purely to run 50 terminals :)
<acheron-a> i expected the host name to be changed just as if i entered it when i did the initial install
<nacc> and what happened?
 * nacc notes that he has a string in 'Device Name' and nautilus stills says 'Computer'
<acheron-a> everything went to lowercase and then "Computer" got changed to what was changed in the device name
<Bashing-om> nacc: ^* and when I boot 14.04 same same .. only enough to boot my terminal emulator(s) .
<nacc> Bashing-om: yep
<acheron-a> well when i say everything, i mean the host names are in the hosts files
<acheron-a> 16.04.2 is what i am on
<acheron-a> well the 2nd issue was has anyone noticed or reported about the nautilus file manager hanging and time-out after you insert an USB drive and click on it to browse the files?  seemed to have started after the eject update?
<nacc> acheron-a: you changed the hostname and are wondering why it changed the hostname in /etc/hosts?
<acheron-a> no
<acheron-a> thats not it
<acheron-a> i changed, just corrected a few missing letters
<acheron-a> and instead of just making those changes, it put everything to lowercase
<acheron-a> deleting machine-info causes nautilus to show "Computer" again
<nacc> acheron-a: what was in machine-info?
<nacc> acheron-a: note that i have a string in Device Name in settings and no /etc/machine-info file
<OerHeks> it is  strongly recommended to write the hostname in lowercase, since some protocols, particularly NIS, ignore capital letters .. so say thank you for changing lowercase
<nacc> and i also would be very hesitnat to delete files owned by systemd
<acheron-a> PRETTY_HOSTNAME=HP-EliteDesk-800-G1-SFF
<nacc> and the manpage says to use hostnamectl to make changes to it
<acheron-a> i understand the all lower cases
<nacc> ah i see, i'm guessing if /etc/machine-info doesn't exist it falls back to /etc/hostname
<acheron-a> but why didn't the installer do that?  because i had backups of those files in /etc
<acheron-a> it was just the lack consistency that threw me off
<Bashing-om> acheron-a: Big changes from what was (upstart) to what is (systemd) :)
<acheron-a> yes
<Bashing-om> I note that not all is fluid to this time .
<acheron-a> i read about that but legacy's sake of having those files around, it should have been lower case in the first place
<nacc> acheron-a: why didn't the installer do what?
<acheron-a> write them all out in lower case
<nacc> so you're saying that /etc/hosts had upper case strings in it?
<acheron-a> yes
<acheron-a> before i made the correction in the gui
<acheron-a> upper and lower
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-04-05
<daftykins> ugh got an 'allah is doing' troll
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Pops up now and again ... < chatter29> ?? in #ubuntu earlier .
<daftykins> yep that's the one!
<daftykins> seems to be from Amsterdam possibly
<daftykins> bed for me :) g'night \o
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic xenial
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.4.0.72.78 (xenial), package size 2 kB, installed size 13 kB
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> morning all
<lordievader> Hey ducasse
<ducasse> morning lordievader - how are you today?
<lordievader> Doing pretty good, bit sleepy.
<lordievader> How are you?
<ducasse> good, thanks. going a quick trip to oslo today.
<ducasse> wow, 42 zesty updates today.
<lotuspsychje> morning guys
<lordievader> ducasse: Nice, have fun
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey there ducasse & lordievader
<ducasse> morning lotus
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<lotuspsychje> great here
<lotuspsychje> doing some papers for my biz
<lotuspsychje> scanning app on ubuntu is so easy
<ducasse> which one?
<lotuspsychje> default scan app :p
<lordievader> xsane?
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> was messing on hp photosmart scna software on vista last week, was a nightmare
<ducasse> i thought the default on ubuntu was simple-scan
<lotuspsychje> ah yes its simple-scan
<lordievader> I like the network support in (x)sane.
<ducasse> it's nice, and usually just works
<ducasse> was plug'n'play with my epson
<lotuspsychje> hp here
<ikevin> some hp are craps on linux :(
<ikevin> hi guys
<lotuspsychje> hey ikevin
<lotuspsychje> ikevin: wich ones?
<lotuspsychje> much of the hp's i had worked nicely with hplip
<lordievader> o/
<ikevin> my all in one deskjet 3050 never has worked fine (like no color)
<lotuspsychje> old type ikevin ?
<ikevin> iirc, like 5 or 6 year old
<lotuspsychje> yeah some printer drivers are not found on linux indeed
<ikevin> hp are bad, they do an official osx driver so no linux driver :(
<lotuspsychje> well over-all hp work most nicely with ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> never had any issues myself
<ikevin> maybe i need to restest, my last attempt was than 2 year old
<lotuspsychje> ikevin: yeah would be nice to know what your printer does on a xenial perhaps
<lotuspsychje> i had some trouble to make a canon work on trusty last year
<ducasse> or just with latest hplip
<lotuspsychje> and most brands dont have nice control centre app on ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> would be nice if someone made a universal ink level & control centre
<lotuspsychje> !info hplip-data
<ubot5> hplip-data (source: hplip): HP Linux Printing and Imaging - data files. In component main, is optional. Version 3.16.3+repack0-1 (xenial), package size 6242 kB, installed size 9786 kB
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: doubt that's easy, different manufacturers do that very differently, even between models
<ikevin> lotuspsychje, oh, that me who's bad, just plugged the printer and it has been automaticaly detected and default setup just working fine (with color) !
<lotuspsychje> !yay
<ubot5> Glad you made it! :-)
<lotuspsychje> ikevin: wich ubuntu version are you?
<ikevin> i'm actually on mint 18, so xenial based
<lotuspsychje> i always played with vanilla ubuntu desktop last years
<ikevin> scan fork fine to !
<lotuspsychje> yay
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: but the simple-scan app can do differen brands at the time, does control center work otherwise you think?
<ikevin> good news, now i can play with cups & sane on my rpi to do a network printer/scanner :D
<lotuspsychje> nice work ikevin
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: sane provides the plugins for scanner support, there are tons of them
<lotuspsychje> ic
<ducasse> you can see lists on sane-project.org, but it's a bit outdated iirc
<ducasse> plus for my inkjet/scanner, epson provides the network scanning support plugin
<lotuspsychje> apt-cache doesnt show much on epson and canon
<ducasse> they both have quite a few drivers on their sites aiui (haven't personally checked canon, though)
<lotuspsychje> ah
<ducasse> there are esc/p drivers, i think those support a bunch of epson printers
<ducasse> (basic support, at least)
<ikevin> in personnal use, basic support is enought
<lotuspsychje> bbl
<brunch875> I got me a gpg key. Does people normally use mail clients which support this?
<ducasse> some of us, at least. gpg is a bit too complex to be widespread.
<brunch875> I guess I should use it anyway. That way people would get curious of what "that signature is" and try to mimic
<brunch875> Why is this, though? Lack of knowledge or is it that certificates are used instead?
<ducasse> tip - if you use mailing lists a lot of them look down on signing list mail. certificates are even rarer, but the problem with gpg is the web of trust thing.
<brunch875> why is it that it's frowned upon?
<ducasse> because it's mostly pointless :)
<brunch875> Hmph. Yeah, I'd guess so. Unless you were to send mails from a different, unknown domain
<ducasse> the question is how will a bunch of strangers who do not have your verified key be able to tell the signature is really yours? see the wikipedia 'web of trust' article.
<ducasse> i've gtg, sorry.
<brunch875> Well that's what keyrings are for, right?
<brunch875> keyserver*
<lordievader> brunch875: Mutt has excellent support for gpg.
<BluesKaj> HI folks
<brunch875> mornin' BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> 'Morning brunch875
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
<brunch875_> afternoon, lotuspsychje!
<lotuspsychje> u2 brunch875_
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> Hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/04/ubuntu-17-10-acrobatic-aardvark
<lotuspsychje> lol
<brunch875_> lol
<brunch875_> my bet goes for amoeba
<lotuspsychje> whats an amoeba
<brunch875_> lotuspsychje: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amoeba#/media/File:Chaos_carolinense.jpg
<lotuspsychje> that will never be :p
<lotuspsychje> isnt a !ringtail a bit like an aardvark?
<brunch875_> one is a kitty, the other is a pig
<lotuspsychje> lol
<DJones_> Isn't an amoeba what a troll wants to grow up into
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> hmm do we have a trigger like !autoremove or apt-cache clean?
<ducasse> \o/
 * ducasse does a happy dance
<lotuspsychje> :p
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: tax stuff is back, they owe me money :)
<lotuspsychje> ohhhhhh
<lotuspsychje> thats the only thing the .gov is good for lol
<lotuspsychje> pay our money back
<ducasse> so i can fix my server this summer :)
<lotuspsychje> nice nice, what will the purpose be ducasse
<ducasse> i don't trust the mobo anymore, it's getting old.
<lotuspsychje> ah right
<lotuspsychje> wb BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> thanks lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hi de-facto
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/dell-launches-world-s-most-powerful-15-and-17-laptops-powered-by-ubuntu-linux-514581.shtml
<lotuspsychje> 1495 euro oO
<ducasse> wow, that's rather spendy
<lotuspsychje> ill try doing better :p
<BluesKaj> wonder if there be a desktop version,...all in ones aren't for me
<ducasse> BluesKaj: second half of april, it says
<BluesKaj> laptops are ok for portable, but the graphics and cpu combo would be nice on a HiDef or 4K TV
<lotuspsychje> bigger, fast ssd would be nice
<BluesKaj> thinking of my media pc here
<BluesKaj> laptops with all the high end specs are a waste of money IMO
<lotuspsychje> yeah i also think so, gaming laptops are overrated
<ducasse> i prefer desktops, but that's just me being weird i guess
<lotuspsychje> overkill
<lotuspsychje> but ssd's powerup any machines right
<BluesKaj> ducasse, nothing weird about that...I don't get these ppl watching tv sports etc on their phones
<lotuspsychje> bbl
<BluesKaj> altho I did see a iphone connected to a 50" tv provide a hdmi HiDef signal with a mini hdmi to hdmi adapter ...seemed to work well
<ducasse> BluesKaj: exactly, what's the point when the screen is just a few inches? streaming netflix to a phone strike me as one of those "because i can" things.
<ducasse> if it's just providing the data stream, sure.
<BluesKaj> yeah ducasse altho some hi end phones can act as a HiDef source
<ducasse> my old phone has a mini-hdmi out, although i've never used it
<BluesKaj> but there's no way i'll pay $800 for phone
<ducasse> me neither :)
<ducasse> phones are consumables nowadays, as long as they last for a couple of years or so they've done their job. so i buy the cheap androids.
<BluesKaj> yeah, I have an Alcatel one touch mini ..takes good pictures, but mostly i just use it as a phone
<ducasse> same here. i have an ssh client for emergencies and a wifi analyzer, other than that i don't really need apps. the ubuntu phones could probably work well for me, if they were actually produced.
<BluesKaj> the OS is old so it's no point using a large capacity sdcard for storage , since I can't load the OS / into the storage to prevent constant out of space reminders from the builtin
<BluesKaj> I've been removing silly google apps that somehow downloaded and installed by default
<ducasse> i don't even know how big the internal storage on mine is, but for some reason i put a 32gb card in it. i'm thinking of rooting the phone so i can remove the crap, although there aren't a lot on this lg phone compared to the samsung and sonys i've had before.
<ducasse> it would feel good to delete what i don't want, though, like facebook etc.
<BluesKaj> yeah, I'm slowly managing to delete a lot of apps that I'll never use
<BluesKaj> also managed to move a lot of apps to the sdcard just now
<ducasse> sadly there are usually quite a few that can't be moved
<ducasse> odd. chromium claims it can't read my preferences, but everything seems right. a restart doesn't help.
<BluesKaj> chromium works great on the rpi3, compared to firefox-esr it's a much lighter load on the cpu and draws much less power to the graphics than FF.FF foze when watching a full screen video, whereas chromium ran very smoothly with no flicker or buffering
<ducasse> i can imagine, chromium seems lighter to me as well - that's why i run it on the laptop.
<ducasse> i guess i'll just need to kill the prefs and set it up again.
<BluesKaj> there's voltage icon in the upper right corner that looks like a thermomter showing how much power is being used by the system
<ducasse> on what?
<BluesKaj> with FF it was always over 60% , chromium barely showed anything if at all
<BluesKaj> rpi3 raspian-pixel
<BluesKaj> raspbian
<ducasse> right. i just run xbian as you know, so no desktop as such. other than kodi i'm thinking of moving weechat and a few other things to it, but i don't really have great faith in a usb stick as the root fs when it comes to longevity.
<ducasse> also, transfer/write speed is pretty abysmal when both the network and usb is used at the same time.
<BluesKaj> root on the usb is much safer tho, i have a spare hdd that i might try with it
<ducasse> still the problem that ethernet and usb share the same bus
<lotuspsychje> laterz guys working day tomorrow
<BluesKaj> BBL...stuff to do for a couple hrs
<baizon> well i guess its time to switch to kde :(
<tgm4883> So no more Unity
<tgm4883> https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/04/05/growing-ubuntu-for-cloud-and-iot-rather-than-phone-and-convergence/
<nacc> yep
<ducasse> and no mir! \o/
<OerHeks> i just read it, indeed
 * nacc has been using ubuntu-gnome for a while anyways
<OerHeks> mir is just a fork of wayland
<GreeningGalaxy> That one I'm not too surprised about, I always thought it looked like they were underestimating how much work it would be to develop a new display server
<GreeningGalaxy> but I assumed they were just going to fall back on wayland proper
<nacc> and well, they needed buy-in from non-ubuntu
<nacc> and that never came
<tgm4883> So what am I supposed to use on my tablets now?
<OerHeks> mint?
<GreeningGalaxy> I suppose this is gonna be the final nail in the coffin for Ubuntu Mobile now, isn't it
<tgm4883> OerHeks: oh god no?
<nicomachus> what is happening
<nicomachus> why
<nicomachus> why would canonical do this to us
<tgm4883> GreeningGalaxy: assuming you mean Ubuntu Touch, since Ubuntu Mobile isn't a thing, then yes
<nacc> i mean, it sort of felt like ubuntu touch was failing anyways
<nicomachus> yea
<nacc> again, i don't know how it would work unless they could push android or ios
<nacc> and they were never going to do that
<nacc> not with just ubuntu phone/tablet
<nacc> also, there's no $$ there
<nacc> to be practical :)
<tgm4883> I liked Unity :(
<nicomachus> good lord, main channel is going to be dreadful today
<GreeningGalaxy> yeah, everything that challenges android is getting wiped out, which is a damn shame because I loathe android with a burning passion
<nacc> yep
<nicomachus> "hey guys, have you heard the news!"
<nicomachus> yes. yes we have. wrong channel.
<nacc> GreeningGalaxy: particular issue with android? or the google-ness of it?
<GreeningGalaxy> mostly just that every time I try to do anything at all under the hood with Android, I go half mad.
<nacc> well, the point is to not be under its hood, i assume :)
<GreeningGalaxy> It seems engineered specifically to thwart attempts to fix its problems.
<nacc> GreeningGalaxy: right, so my question was more -- what problems?
<tgm4883> I just want a good x86 tablet that I can use the touchscreen
<immu_> https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/04/05/growing-ubuntu-for-cloud-and-iot-rather-than-phone-and-convergence/
<nicomachus> immu_: yes thanks we've all seen it
<Pici> *gasp*
<nacc> tgm4883: i use the touchscreen on my laptop :)
<nacc> tgm4883: but no tablets here
<immu_> it that a joke ?
<nacc> immu_: is what a joke?
<tgm4883> nacc: I mean as a primary device, as in without an attached keyboard/mouse
<GreeningGalaxy> nacc: example: My dad wanted to get the music he'd downloaded to his phone through Google Play onto another device. Turns out, You Can't. Google Play Music hides everything in /data, which is not accessible without root.
<nacc> tgm4883: right, it's a 2-in-1 so i can flip it around and it's basically that :)
<nacc> tgm4883: but yeah
<tgm4883> nacc: on screen keyboard?
<immu_> the new that from 18.04 will revert back to Gnome?
<GreeningGalaxy> Google hides *YOUR OWN FILES* on *YOUR OWN DEVICE* and won't let you access them.
<nicomachus> GreeningGalaxy: well, that's a Google Play Music issue. Not Android.
<nicomachus> immu_: no it's not a joke.
<tgm4883> immu_: not a joke apparently
<nacc> tgm4883: yeah, although i haven't used it recently (on 17.10)
<nacc> *17.04
<GreeningGalaxy> nicomachus: no, the issue is that there's even a place on your own phone that you can't access.
<nicomachus> GreeningGalaxy: welcome to the world of proprietary software
<nicomachus> it's been this way for a LONG time.
<nacc> GreeningGalaxy: well it has to be for the licensure, i'm sure
<OerHeks> after ZZ ...
<nacc> GreeningGalaxy: and if you dislike the license rules, don't use google music
<GreeningGalaxy> Not even Windows or OSX screw you that bad
<nacc> presumably you agreed to the ToS
<KamiRath> https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/04/05/growing-ubuntu-for-cloud-and-iot-rather-than-phone-and-convergence/
<nicomachus> thanks KamiRath, you are now the 4th person to link that here.
<tgm4883> FFS can someone change the topic
<KamiRath> thanks
<KamiRath> good to know
<KamiRath> should I pass the messag eon to the 5th person?
<KamiRath> or will you be doing that? ;)
<OerHeks> tgm4883, you can yourself, no?
<tgm4883> OerHeks: I have no power here
<dbugger> Im really surprised noone is talking about "Unity out. GNOME in"
<nicomachus> dbugger: you have to just be trolling now
<tgm4883> dbugger: what do you want us to say that hasn't already been said
<GreeningGalaxy> I've not had a great experience with GNOME 3.X
<GreeningGalaxy> I guess I'll give it another shot with this new development, but I'm not optimistic.
<nacc> GreeningGalaxy: interesting, i've found it pretty easy to use
<GreeningGalaxy> Last time I tried it, it was inserting typos into everything I typed. It was completely nuts.
<nacc> uh, that seems weird
<nacc> never had anything even resembling that
<tgm4883> I'm surprised that 18.04 is getting Gnome and not 17.10
<nacc> and been running gnome ubuntu since ~15.10 on this lappy
<nacc> tgm4883: well, it might happen in 17.10
<nacc> but most users probably care about the lts upgrade path
<tgm4883> nacc: I suppose that's true
<nacc> tgm4883: just that it will definitely be done by 18.04 i think
<GreeningGalaxy> Wasn't even a slow computer either, but every time I typed sort of fast, letters would start to appear out of order. I thought it was just me at first, but then I switched DEs and the problem vanished.
<dbugger> Maybe I joined the channel way too late and was already over
<brunch875> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/04/ubuntu-18-04-ship-gnome-desktop-not-unity#disqus_thread
<brunch875> what the shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit
<dbugger> even though I thought that would be going all day ^^
 * brunch875 is demolished
<dbugger> there we go
<dbugger> brunch875, is not joining my party
<dbugger> ^^
<nacc> GreeningGalaxy: very strange, never had that
<nacc> GreeningGalaxy: sounds like a buggy keyboard
<tgm4883> nacc: honestly it needs to be done before that if it's going to have wayland
<nacc> tgm4883: yep
<GreeningGalaxy> nacc: no, it didn't persist in any other DE or in the bare TTY, it was most certainly not my keyboard
<nacc> tgm4883: i'm curious what the flow will be, but i'm also not involved on the desktop side
<nacc> GreeningGalaxy: very strange
<GreeningGalaxy> That was like 3 years ago though, maybe it was just a one-time fluke
<immu_> people have you also lost it, after reading that news
<nacc> GreeningGalaxy: ah yeah
<nicomachus> !language | brunch875
<ubot5> brunch875: Please avoid any language that may be considered offensive, including acronyms and obfuscation of such - also see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines || The main channels are English only, for other languages, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList
<nacc> GreeningGalaxy: pre-16.04 was a bit bad
<nacc> immu_: no
<OerHeks> immu_, between now and 18.04 anything can happen.
<brunch875> sorry, sorry....
<dbugger> Does it count, even with so many "i"s?
<nicomachus> OerHeks: yea, they could trash 5 years of work on a whole DE
<OerHeks> Nice stirr, Mark...
<nacc> tbh, i'm surprised he was humble enough to admit defeat :)
<nacc> maybe we'll see a little less fragmentation of the linux desktop world now
<GreeningGalaxy> dbugger: probably, usually on IRC it counts if you even talk about swear words. I expect to be warned for the language in this message.
<nicomachus> dbugger: "including acronyms and obfuscation of such"
<dbugger> wow, talk about specifiticy
<GreeningGalaxy> I think "swear word" counts as a swear word on IRC
<OerHeks> nacc,  i would not be surprised that canonical and ubuntu split up.
<nacc> OerHeks: i would be very surprised by that
<nacc> OerHeks: canonical's branding is fully tied up in ubuntu
<nacc> there isn't anything else, really
<brunch875> I'm very sad to see the project flop
<brunch875> on the other hand it's great the failure was admitted
<tgm4883> Is Gnome 3 better now? Last I tried it (admittedly right after release) extensions were pretty bad
<brunch875> nothing like not steering the wheel and sinking
<nacc> tgm4883: i dont use very many extensions, but i can test a specific one if you want
<tgm4883> Trying to decide if I should go from Kubuntu back to Mate or Gnome
<OerHeks> Maybe this stirr is needed to activate the community.
<OerHeks> finaly, we are back in the gossip again :-D
<tgm4883> nacc: I don't remember any specifically, it's been a long time since gnome 3.0
<brunch875> does that mean we're hopping to wayland?
<tgm4883> brunch875: yes, but who knows when
 * brunch875 sighs deeply
<nacc> tgm4883: hrm, i can't get the osb to show up in gnome -- it does show up on the login iirc
<brunch875> I was really looking forward do it
<brunch875> although I've got to admit that the whole confinement just didn't feel right
 * daftykins groans as he spies 3.13.0-116 up for install
<tgm4883> brunch875: the confinement of MIR?
<tgm4883> Hmm, so what happens to "Ubuntu Gnome"?
<ducasse> the name will be six chars shorter?
<brunch875> so unity7 dies too?
<brunch875> I really like unity
<nacc> tgm4883: i wonder if ubuntu gnome will still move ahead for now, 'pure gnome' ?
<tgm4883> ducasse: I meant the whole team doing it
<nacc> tgm4883: oh good question
<brunch875> tgm4883: yeah and stuff such as application lifecycle
<tgm4883> brunch875: it could live I suppose. It's been suggested (in reddit threads anyway) that it could be gnome extensions to give the same look and feel
<tgm4883> brunch875: it won't be developed by canonical though
<OerHeks> .. and unity is not dead yet..
<brunch875> I wonder what's with snaps too then
<tgm4883> brunch875: snaps should be fine
<ducasse> brunch875: it says snaps will still be developed as part of the iot thing
<brunch875> hopefully we get all of that in the desktop
<brunch875> even without mir, the confinement + message passing sounds fantastic
<tgm4883> brunch875: we already have it in the desktop...
<brunch875> well yeah, using snapped hexchat right now
<MichaelTunnell> ok so anything "interesting" to talk about today ;)
<brunch875> what I mean is I wish the development to advance everywhere
<GreeningGalaxy> The language of that post isn't entirely unambiguous. It could be that he means we're going back to GNOME-based Unity, not vanilla GNOME.
<brunch875> GreeningGalaxy: That'd be for the best!
<GreeningGalaxy> "We will shift our default Ubuntu desktop back to GNOME for Ubuntu 18.04 LTS." Could mean either "Unity is going to be based on GNOME again"
<BluesKaj> well just saw this  https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/04/05/growing-ubuntu-for-cloud-and-iot-rather-than-phone-and-convergence/
<tgm4883> GreeningGalaxy: that's a good point
<daftykins> i thought Unity always has been gnome underneath? :)
<GreeningGalaxy> s/either//
<tgm4883> daftykins: yes, but unity 8 wasn't
<daftykins> ah ok
<tgm4883> daftykins: and the post specifically talks about going back to Gnome and not funding unity 8 anymore
<nacc> tgm4883: so i'm not able to get the on screen keyboard to consistently work, not sure hwy yet :)
<daftykins> yeah i didn't follow desktop because i don't use it.
<MichaelTunnell> GreeningGalaxy: interesting point, hadn't thought of that
<tgm4883> Someone should get some clarification. popey can you ask Mark at the pub later ;)
<popey> clarification of?
<nicomachus> daftykins: how's that W10 working out for ya, though? :P
<tgm4883> popey: whether we're going back to Gnome Shell, or Unity on top of Gnome
<GreeningGalaxy> also " We will continue to produce the most usable open source desktop in the world," which notably says "desktop" and not "distribution" or "operating system"
<tgm4883> popey: since the post is kinda unclear on that
<popey> pass
<tgm4883> lol
<popey> you know as much as I do
<daftykins> nicomachus: great thanks, as are my Loonix servers, since i'm in both camps - not just a fanboy
<GreeningGalaxy> It looks like OMG!Ubuntu ran with "omg they're phasing out Unity" but that's not what the post looks like to me.
<baizon> unity is dead
<tgm4883> popey: yea, but you're both in the UK so aren't you all just meet at the pub after work?
<tgm4883> baizon: not necessarily
 * nicomachus blows a raspberry at daftykins
<baizon> it is
<popey> tgm4883: of course
<baizon> no unity 8 and unity 7 :(
<tgm4883> baizon: You have insider knowledge?
<GreeningGalaxy> one way or another, I hope we at least see an new default icon theme because christ
<baizon> tgm4883: developer left, and the blog is saying it, IoT and cloud
<nicomachus> good lord, #ubuntu is requiring !ot every 30 secs
<tgm4883> baizon: no, the blog says unity 8 is no longer being developerd
<daftykins> nicomachus: hilariously i was looking at a clients iMac they can't stand, today ;)
<tgm4883> baizon: it doesn't say anything about 7
<nicomachus> daftykins: pick a side!
<daftykins> nicomachus: nooo the only sane way is to see them all for what they are
<daftykins> horses for courses!
<nicomachus> yes. winners and losers!
<daftykins> nah that attitude is pathetic.
<GreeningGalaxy> baizon: it looks to me like the blog post is saying "Unity is returning to being a derivative of GNOME" not "All of Unity is being trashed and Ubuntu will ship with vanilla GNOME"
<BluesKaj> as we say here in canucksville, unity makes no nevermind to me :-)
<stevenh> @GreeningGalaxy: my reading was the latter. We're dropping unity and switching to GNOME Shell
<stevenh> I would expect some ubuntu specific extensions in it though
<GreeningGalaxy> stevenh: where do you see that in the post?
<immu>  /join #ubuntu-discuss
<stevenh> Instead of being a full vanilla GNOME
<nicomachus> immu: you're already here, friendo
<Azulflame> probably failed his copy-paste
<daftykins> immu: it's ok, you're in
<stevenh> "We will shift our default Ubuntu desktop back to GNOME for Ubuntu 18.04 LTS."    Because they say "default DESKTOP"
<nicomachus> baizon, tgm4883: unity has to be supported until 2021 at least
<stevenh> I know I'm reading into things though
<stevenh> But because he mentions it as desktop I would expect it to be the full environment
<ReimuHakurei> i imagine it'll be GNOME with changes to look more like Unity does
<immu> i was trying to cpy paste the article
<tgm4883> someone in #ubuntu-offtopic says they have a source inside canonical that says Unity is dead
 * tgm4883 shrugs
<immu> move to gnome
<tgm4883> including 7
<Azulflame> good riddance
<baizon> gnome sucks
<ReimuHakurei> i imagine the community will take it up
<baizon> i love unity :(
<nicomachus> tgm4883: they hve to support it though still
<tgm4883> yea
<stevenh> If unity 7 wasn't dead he would write they are switching dev effort to unity 7, not today's statement the default desktop is switching to GNOME
<ReimuHakurei> i have some issues with Unity, but it's still one of the most usable DEs imo
<GreeningGalaxy> lol, omgubuntu.co.uk is down for the count. I just got a page full of corrupted text.
<stevenh> As an Apple refugee GNOME suits me, so I'm happy with the change
<nicomachus> how long until we start seeing unity forks?
<GreeningGalaxy> with a surprising number of telephones
<ReimuHakurei> KDE5 (nice, but slooooooooooooooow), Unity, and Xfce4
<Azulflame> I think that XFCE/Mate/KDE are the more usable DMs
<GreeningGalaxy> nicomachus: zero seconds. There's probably one underway already
<nicomachus> GreeningGalaxy: they're saying on twitter that they're overloaded.
<Azulflame> I don't like Unity, but it's managable
<GreeningGalaxy> ReimuHakurei: slow? I'm using it now on very old hardware and it's completely satisfactory.
<GreeningGalaxy> KDE just has a bad rep for being slow from KDE4, which actually was slow.
<ReimuHakurei> GreeningGalaxy: on high end hardware it feels slower than other DEs
<Azulflame> KDE5 has bad screen tearing in VMs, but that's just the lack of videocard passthrough in my vbox
<baizon> well but i think ill switch to kde :(
<baizon> i hate gnome 3
<ReimuHakurei> last time i tried Ubuntu on my main desktop (at the time, i5-2500K, R9 290X, 16GB RAM, 250GB Crucial MX200) it took several minutes to boot up
<tgm4883> ha, I'm switching from KDE
<Azulflame> baizon, did you like Gnome 2?
<ReimuHakurei> vs Windows 8.1 taking about 10 seconds
<nicomachus> baizon: MATE?
<GreeningGalaxy> ReimuHakurei: oh, you're trying to run it with all the effects turned on arent you
<daftykins> you don't need passthrough to eliminate tearing, with a decent driver in your virt tech surely.
<baizon> Azulflame: yes
<ReimuHakurei> GreeningGalaxy: stock.
<Azulflame> baizon, try out MATE
<baizon> ReimuHakurei: my ubuntu boots within 10 sec
<ReimuHakurei> whatever kubuntu default was
<Azulflame> It's very similar in feel and look, but runs really nice
<GreeningGalaxy> ReimuHakurei: yeah, so with all the effects they enable by default.
<baizon> Azulflame: i did
<stevenh> What do people here who like unity dislike about gnome? It's not that different after some extensions...
<stevenh> And the application stack is the same
<nicomachus> BTW: this is the busiest I've ever seen this channel
<GreeningGalaxy> ReimuHakurei: if you want it to be fast, disable everything in Desktop Behavior/Effects, and go to Display Settings and set animation speed to instant.
<Azulflame> nicomachus, it just got plugged in #ubuntu
<ReimuHakurei> GreeningGalaxy: the big issue was how badly it glitched out with the 290X
<tgm4883> I like how there's two very active conversations about this in two separate channels
<ReimuHakurei> it might be better now with the RX 480, but it's been a while since i gave it a whirl
<nicomachus> Azulflame: I know, because everyone in #ubuntu is getting offtopic
<Azulflame> so everything as normal?
<nicomachus> but instead of pushing them to -offtopic, they got pushed here...
<daftykins> tgm4883: what's the other channel?
<nicomachus> daftykins: -ot
<tgm4883> #ubuntu-offtopic
<ReimuHakurei> i mean, this is ubuntu related
<daftykins> ah well that's not the place for the on-topic discussion, that's just the cesspit :P
<GreeningGalaxy> IANAO, this doesn't seem off-topic enough
<tgm4883> it should be in this channel
<BluesKaj> 0.
<Munrek> stevenh: extensions are a pain in the ass to configure and are regularly broken. Unity is a top notch out of the box experience.
<samfreenode> wtf Ubuntu is abandoning Unity?
<nicomachus> daftykins: they're like 90% non-ubuntu users. haha
<nicomachus> !language | samfreenode
<ubot5> samfreenode: Please avoid any language that may be considered offensive, including acronyms and obfuscation of such - also see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines || The main channels are English only, for other languages, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList
<OerHeks> grinn @omgubuntu Insane amount of traffic to the site right now has knocked us offline. We hope to be back up shortly.
<Azulflame> wtf is considered bad language? really?
<daftykins> nicomachus: :>
<ReimuHakurei> nicomachus: wow, is wtf seriosuly considered 'bad language'?
<immu> omgubuntu is up
<ReimuHakurei> wow.
<samfreenode> "abandoning"?
<daftykins> Azulflame: well what you just typed isn't hugely welcome :)
<nicomachus> Azulflame: "including acronyms and obfuscaion of such"
<nicomachus> feel free to join #ubuntu-ops to complain
<stevenh> @Munrek: I agree it's a pain. It got better though in the last versions. Hopefully canonical can help improve that experience
<samfreenode> But Unity was Ubuntu's baby for years
<samfreenode> omg
<Munrek> stevenh: I have the feeling they are giving up on desktop
<samfreenode> Why is Ubuntu going back to Gnome?
<ReimuHakurei> samfreenode: money
<nicomachus> samfreenode: mir
<Azulflame> probably getting tired of developing a DE as well as an OS
<samfreenode> nicomachus: Why is mir making them give up Unity?
<ReimuHakurei> unity is likely costing a lot of money to develop, and ubuntu on the desktop is not the most popular use
<samfreenode> So the Linux desktop is dead?
<nicomachus> samfreenode: because mir is awful
<ReimuHakurei> pretty sure ubuntu server is the num1 cloud OS right now
<ducasse> samfreenode: mir was a pointless waste of effort
<stevenh> Just imagine if all the effort that went into Mir and Unity 8 was put into Gnome + Wayland
<immu> unity8 is comminng soooooooooooooon? which never came
<ReimuHakurei> i still don't understand why it wasn't unity8+wayland
<ReimuHakurei> why make mir instead?
<Munrek> yeah but canonical is not willing to put that effort in gnome and wayland, not anymore
<tgm4883> ReimuHakurei: doesn't matter, since it's dead now
<ReimuHakurei> fair enough
<KristijanZic> Guys, wtf is going on? What is happening with Ubuntu desktop? Is Mark serious? Will someone pick up Unity8 development?
<samfreenode> KristijanZic: DONT SAY "WTF" OMG
<ReimuHakurei> l o l .
<nicomachus> KristijanZic: you won't be warned about language again.
<daftykins> please, it's "oh my Tux" ;)
<KristijanZic> sorry
<ReimuHakurei> topkek
<tgm4883> KristijanZic: no
<Azulflame> this is a lot of speculation on Unity dying. Was there an official source?
<KristijanZic> Oh my Tux, is he for real?
<nicomachus> Azulflame: yes.
<Fingel> back to gnome! like it's 2009
<OerHeks> Nice stirr, Mark... ubuntu-spring
<nicomachus> from Mark Shuttleworth blog post
<tgm4883> Azulflame: nothing official
<stevenh> @Azulflame: https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/04/05/growing-ubuntu-for-cloud-and-iot-rather-than-phone-and-convergence/
<kostkon> KristijanZic, it is real. Relax and give yourself some time to digest the "news"
<Azulflame> THE KING IS DEAD. LONG LIVE THE KING!
<ReimuHakurei> KristijanZic: Canonical is ceasing their development of Unity8 in favor of GNOME3, because they've realized that convergance with ubuntu (the long term plan for unity) isn't going to happen, and that focusing on servers is a better use of their limited resources.
<Azulflame> -caps
<BluesKaj> king kde
<samfreenode> Why did Canonical invest so much in Unity and then abandon it
<baizon> i dont understand it too
<Azulflame> KDE can be a Bishop. LONG LIVE MATE
<nicomachus> ugh, mate
<Azulflame> samfreenode, It was never adopted to make it big
<Azulflame> if they could start it up and let the community handle it, they would have
<tgm4883> samfreenode: because of the sunk cost fallacy
<ReimuHakurei> samfreenode: they thought it would succeed at convergance, but it didn't.
<samfreenode> ReimuHakurei: What will we have to use for convergance now then?
<Fingel> gnome3 can probably be made to look/act similarly to unity with just a few extensions
<OerHeks> maybe the desktop is dead, robots are the future.. https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/04/04/nexiona-collaborates-with-canonical-and-dell-to-create-miimetiq-edge/
<Fingel> unity was a mistake from the beginning
<ReimuHakurei> samfreenode: convergance is probablty not going to happen to a real extent ever
<samfreenode> ReimuHakurei: Why not?
<ReimuHakurei> from what i've seen, the most usable one seems to be the new one on Samsung's phones
<Azulflame> is wayland/mir/canonical's X replacement dead now?
<Azulflame> whichever it was
<ReimuHakurei> Azulflame: wayland isn't, mir probably is
<tgm4883> ReimuHakurei: convergence works well enough on windows
<Azulflame> mir was cononical?
<nicomachus> Azulflame: they'll stick to wayland, hopefully.
<BluesKaj> they're going the enterprise route like red hat
<nicomachus> mir was all canonical and is now dead (thank tux)
<ReimuHakurei> tgm4883: windows will be good when they get the x86 emu on arm working so you can use win32
<stevenh> Maybe they'll also return to Xfree86!?
<BluesKaj> slimming down , lean and mean
<tgm4883> ReimuHakurei: you can get x86 tablets
<ReimuHakurei> tgm4883: not for long
<ReimuHakurei> intel ditched that product line
<KristijanZic> linux is officially a monolithic system now :'( Only RedHat and forks :'(
<tgm4883> ReimuHakurei: intel ditched their i5 line?
<ReimuHakurei> tgm4883: no
<ReimuHakurei> but the Atoms you find in most tablets
<KristijanZic> time to start hacking a hackintosh
<ReimuHakurei> Core M is suitable for tablets as well, but costs more than most consumers will pay
<daftykins> the current Atom Apollo Lakes are quite capable
<tgm4883> ReimuHakurei: which line are you talking about? I've got an i5 tablet from dell
<ReimuHakurei> tgm4883: which one? Venue 11 Pro?
<tgm4883> ReimuHakurei: yea
<ReimuHakurei> is it the i5-4300Y one?
<ReimuHakurei> i want one of those
<ReimuHakurei> (Venue 11 Pro 7139)
<tgm4883> yea that's the one
<ReimuHakurei> you'll notice a lack of newer tablets similar to that model
<ReimuHakurei> :/
<nicomachus> 13:27 < johnjohn101> 18.04  name  =  GNOME GOTCHA
<nicomachus> I like it
<ReimuHakurei> just like those old 2in1s... my favorite was that old XPS one with the flipping screen inside a frame
<Fingel> KristijanZic: how is linux monolithic? Theres like 50 DE's to choose from. Unity was just one of them
<ReimuHakurei> https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA60G5528727
<tgm4883> Fingel: to channel RMS, Linux is a kernel
<BluesKaj> 50? try 250
<ReimuHakurei> i hate that dell nuked this one
<ReimuHakurei> that imo was the best design
<stevenh> I'm really wondering what will be the best GNOME distro
<Fingel> tgm4883: yea I realize the original comment was bad to begin with, just replying in the same manner
<ReimuHakurei> I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as Linux, is in fact, systemd/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, systemd plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning systemd system made useful by the systemd corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.
<nicomachus> no copypasta please, we've seen it all before.
<tgm4883> ReimuHakurei: don't give Redhat any ideas
<nacc> lol
<KristijanZic> Is someone going to pick up the development of Unity8 and Mir?
<pavlos> and I was calling it GNU/linux
<tgm4883> KristijanZic: I'm not
<nacc> KristijanZic: that would be up to "someone" to do... how would we know?
<ReimuHakurei> KristijanZic: i think unity8 is likely dead, but i think someone will pick up unity7
<ReimuHakurei> mir is 100% dead i think
<KristijanZic> Unity7 is inheritly bad just like gnome because of gtk
<BluesKaj> well, I'm leaning more and more towards debian as my main OS
<KristijanZic> Qt is the present and the near future
<tgm4883> KristijanZic: yuck
<ReimuHakurei> so unless someone ports unity8 to wayland...
<ReimuHakurei> i dislike both tbh
<ReimuHakurei> why are all crossplatform UI toolkits so bad?
<matteo__> sure KristijanZic, with that change I'll go back to kde too
<KristijanZic> ReimuHakurei: easier to develop from scratch than to port to wayland
<tgm4883> BluesKaj: I've thought about that too, but everytime I do I can't come up with a good reason as to Why
<ReimuHakurei> mm, tbh i have no idea the internals of mir/wayland/unity8
<KristijanZic> matter__: I'll purchase a mac and install FreeBSD, Canonical lost me forever.
<KristijanZic> matteo__ ^
<nacc> wow, overreact much
<ReimuHakurei> ...why would you buy apple hardware?
<stevenh> lol FreeBSD? You think that's going to produce a stable feature rich desktop?
<nicomachus> tgm4883: I like how ubottu answered you there.
<ReimuHakurei> good luck w/ any hw support on freebsd
<Azulflame> KristijanZic, we over at #archlinux will accept you
<tgm4883> nicomachus: it's smart, but not very smart
<BluesKaj> tgm4883, stability, excellent support, networking is easier without nm
<ReimuHakurei> i switched from debian to ubuntu server on my servers
<tgm4883> BluesKaj: TBF, I've not had stability issues or networking issues with nm
<ReimuHakurei> ubuntu server is great
<tgm4883> and support is pretty good on Ubuntu too
<matteo__> i think i'll try kde neon
<BluesKaj> tgm4883, i don't bother with nm or puleaudio and PIM and some other apps that are default
<KristijanZic> stevenh: Well FreeBSD has a steady development and I hear that the someone is cashing convergence too (or just mobile interface, idk for sure), it has zfs and dtrace.
<GreeningGalaxy> Convergence on FreeBSD? Dream on...
<stevenh> KristijanZic: I think FreeBSD might be suitable for use on servers but not a desktop
<ReimuHakurei> ^
<ReimuHakurei> just because you can doesn't mean it's the best fit.
<stevenh> KristijanZic: Especially if you want some non-free stuff like games, H264 codecs, proprietary drivers
<Azulflame> you can install KDE on BSD
<Azulflame> so it would be usable
<GreeningGalaxy> what generation of KDE? 5?
<KristijanZic> stevenh: there is an UbuntuBSD project, just needs to be revived imho.
<satysin> hi
<satysin> so that is some big news
<nicomachus> yep.
<matteo__> what about ubuntu phone users?
<matteo__> what about ubuntu-sdk, phone app developers
<nicomachus> get an android.
<KristijanZic> matteo__: I have UbuntuPhone, I've learned the sdk etc and now I can trash it. So furious xD
<matteo__> idem KristijanZic
<nacc> KristijanZic: not different than any other early adopter choice
<nacc> KristijanZic: there was no guarantee of success, afaict
<matteo__> my trust is lost, I'm going to change completely, far away from canonical
<nicomachus> why
<nicomachus> because you couldn't recognize that it was a failing platform?
<KristijanZic> nacc: I know but one can't escape a feeling of being scamed big.
<blackflow> unity8, phone, convergence, mir..... wth, I had to re-check if any time zone on the planet is still at April 1st :)
<jbicha> matteo__: Canonical has switched directions before - upstart to systemd, gnome2 to unity (Unity was controversial to a lot of people when introduced)
<KristijanZic> matteo__: yup, in a few years they'll say they'll abandon the cloud too, better to stay away. I think juju is the first one to go
<matteo__> yes but you can even use gnome if u want. Tomorrow i'll not be able to keep using my stuff, this is a big drop
<matteo__> is not a change
<matteo__> is dropping years of work to the trash
<nacc> KristijanZic: FUD.
<nacc> matteo__: what?
<matteo__> i'm just telling this time is a change without leaving free choiches
<jbicha> matteo__: that happened before with upstart and with gnome2
<nacc> matteo__: what do you mean? unity8 was never released
<sveinse> so? I'm working in a fairly large company, and it happens from time to time that big changes must be made and everyone wished it didn't have so big cost sunk into it... Move on, future will come anyways
<nacc> matteo__: so you had to *opt* into using an unreleased project
<matteo__> nope. You had choiches to use kde, mate gnome OR unity. THis thime you cannot choose Gnome OR unity. It's different.
<BernhardPosselt> hi, is this a joke or for real https://linux.slashdot.org/story/17/04/05/1812232/canonical-killing-unity-for-ubuntu-linux-will-switch-to-the-superior-gnome
<matteo__> and camon, I'm talking about all the related stuff, it will include also unity 7, ubuntu phone and others things that will not exist anymore. If you want upstart go use it, or you cannot?
<matteo__> superior my ass
<nacc> matteo__: what area you talking bout?
<nacc> matteo__: kde mate gnome are all still available
<BernhardPosselt> i mean i like gnome better but this sounds a bit weird :D
<nacc> matteo__: and no upstart is no longer available in ubuntu
<BernhardPosselt> next ubuntu people are going to drop mir
<blackflow> BernhardPosselt: they are, according to phoronix.
<matteo__> nacc its not hard to understand. Drop is a thing, change is another. When they passed to unity gnome is not dead. This time unity and all related stuff will dead
<tgm4883> matteo__: no, it's just not developed by canonical anymore...
<blackflow> Unity was the only reason I tried out and liked Ubuntu. If Ubuntu switches back to Gnome, I'll have no reason to use it over, say, Debian testing.
<nacc> matteo__: i don't know what you're talking about
<nacc> matteo__: unity8 is what is being dropped by canonical for ubuntu
<nacc> blackflow: no one is stopping you
<matteo__> i use ubuntu 10 years, i know about that changes. I love Unity. I found GNOME SHELL ugly and unusable without first installing a lot of third party bad mainteined extensions
<BernhardPosselt> mir was probably secretely meant to push wayland devs
<matteo__> and from what i know, kubuntu, ubuntu mate and other derivates are not stable as the main release. So i know tha if i'll want stability i'll have to choose ubuntu gnome, or switch far away from canonical
<KristijanZic> life sucks (excuse my lang)
<tgm4883> matteo__: Why wouldn't they be stable?
<matteo__> hahahaha yeah
<ivan> matteo__: it's the same distribution, different package selection
<matteo__> i'm not going to cry, i'll drink some extra beers
<BernhardPosselt> im already drinking xD
<matteo__> good :D
<BernhardPosselt> to a bright future :D
<BernhardPosselt> although im probably in the wrong chat here :D
<daftykins> drink 'til the penguin is attractive
<daftykins> in terms of the DE that is, not any tastes for animals :P
<ducasse> if M starts looking good it's time to stop :)
<ducasse> *MATE
<daftykins> XD
<matteo__> never used Mate gtk3, if i'm not wrong i used mate 1.4/1.6 in the past and was a pain in the ass
<OerHeks> back to kde i guess ..
<nicomachus> MATE isn't fun. I don't like it much. But it's the best option for the raspberry pi right now
<daftykins> desktop on a Pi o0 wat
<matteo__> for me gnomeshell is a desperated choice, i mean you can't even refresh your wifi connection without an extension, that today works and tomorrow not
<nicomachus> daftykins: gotta run that Plex client
<BernhardPosselt> matteo__: been using gnome for years now and never had wifi issues
<matteo__> who told that i had wifi issues
<matteo__> pay attention ;)
<sveinse> matteo__: what? cant refresh wifi connection? I run gnome shell on 16.04, and I have no such problems. Nor have I installed an extension for it
<daftykins> nicomachus: Kodi + Plex addon on LibreELEC = done
<BernhardPosselt> what do you mean with refresh wifi then
<nacc> matteo__: i feel like you're full of FUD :)
<nacc> matteo__: your single experience is not somehow a global assessment of a project
<BernhardPosselt> pick up new ssids?
<nicomachus> daftykins: and what if I wanna throw a YouTube video up on the big screen?
 * nacc roams without issue
<daftykins> nicomachus: i use browser addons 'sent to kodi' or on the Nexus 5x i have the Kore remote installed so i select 'send to' -> Kodi and it plays
<daftykins> *send to kodi
<matteo__> i mean that https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/905/refresh-wifi-connections/
<matteo__> maybe you have that installed if you can refresh your wifi
<BernhardPosselt> im currently using arch and fedora and software seems to work better than on ubuntu, maybe thats the issue matteo__ :D
<nicomachus> daftykins: you aren't in lotus are you?
<daftykins> nah not right now
<daftykins> too many channels++
<nicomachus> squoosh?
<BernhardPosselt> matteo__: ssids are refreshed in 5-10 seconds usually
<daftykins> yip
<nacc> matteo__: i do not have it installed and it refreshes automatically
<nacc> (17.04 here)
<matteo__> idg a fk. i want to tefresh manually and i cannot without that third party extension. You cannot switch your audio channels without another extension.....at the end you need 20/30 extensions to have a normal desktop, that remain ugly
<satysin> I wonder if 17.10 will ship with GNOME as well as Unity 7?
<matteo__> sorry for my english guys
<satysin> Seems risky to jump to GNOME for an LTS
<BernhardPosselt> you should not have to refresh manually since it refreshes automatically
<matteo__> satysin, good point
<BernhardPosselt> very quickly
<BernhardPosselt> as for switching audio channels: what do you mean exactly?
<sveinse> matteo__: I think it's fine with extensions. Alternative is KDE which is *bloated* since it ships with everything
<matteo__> google is your friend https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/295/switch-output-audio-devices/
<jbicha> satysin: it's less risky than jumping to unity8 honestly since most Linux distros have shipped gnome3 for years
<satysin> jbicha agreed, however it is still a big change and for an LTS it seems strange
<satysin> previously ubuntu have held off on doing big changes in an LTS
<jbicha> that's why the announcement is now so things can be worked on for 17.10 which is not an LTS
<sveinse> I like gnome3. I run stock 16.04 version with one (1) extension, frippery bottom panel. #happycamper
<BernhardPosselt> i thought LTSs were intentionally introducing big changes
<BernhardPosselt> because you are stuck with them for another 2 years
<daftykins> *5 years
<matteo__> sveinse, nope, check with synaptic, search all extensions installed ;)
<BernhardPosselt> the only thing that bugs me is that opening multiple apps is a bit time consuming but im usually using keyboard shortcuts for that
<sveinse> matteo__: tweak tool sais I have two extensions installed, frippery bottom panel and multi monitor addons (disabled).
<nicomachus> BernhardPosselt: ubuntu usually introduces new things the release after an LTS
<matteo__> why not KDE? I would like to hear what do you think about it
<nicomachus> so 16.10
<matteo__> ok sveinse, try to switch audio channel or manually refresh the wifi
<matteo__> you cannot
<BernhardPosselt> matteo__: i tried to use kde 4.x seriously a few times
<BernhardPosselt> 4.2, all the way up to 4.9
<BernhardPosselt> always full of bugs
<matteo__> i used 3 too, was very ugly lol
<BernhardPosselt> really annoying ones
<matteo__> yep
<matteo__> agree
<BernhardPosselt> then i gave up
<matteo__> specially the korganizer, kmail
<BernhardPosselt> never used kde since
<BluesKaj> depends on the themes you chose ..not cartooney like gnome, that fugly IMO
<matteo__> my eyes loved kde 5 plasma
<matteo__> but never used seriusly
<matteo__> so idk
<sveinse> I remember when unity came, when hitting the windows key (or whatever it is called in linux) and being able to read the popup text from the moon / or when drunk...
<BernhardPosselt> yeah i gave up styling gnome at some point
<KristijanZic> This is for farewell https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHG2oizTlpY
<daftykins> nasty :P
<OerHeks> oh, no rick-roll
<alkisg> (09:43:39 Î¼Î¼) KristijanZic: alkisg: How is that in any universe a great news? :'( => less diff from debian means better code quality, less bugs, easier patches etc
<alkisg> I only wish that gnome would still ship a non-compositing environment so that MATE wouldn't be needed either
<KristijanZic> alkisg: Debian is just bending over to RedHat, there is no freedom anymore here
<seo> lol.
<alkisg> KristijanZic: debian is a distro, it's not upstream development
<alkisg> Of course they need to follow upstream
<seo> spot on, systemd hater ;)
<matteo__> alkisg, theres windows and apple for thi king of thins. ALL THE SAME ;)
<matteo__> this kind*
<matteo__> https://twitter.com/L4r1k4/status/849680323432656905
<matteo__> maybe my cat caused it
<DArqueBishop> <KristijanZic> alkisg: Debian is just bending over to RedHat, there is no freedom anymore here
<DArqueBishop> If your comment was any more dramatic it'd win an acting award.
<nicomachus> lol
<KristijanZic> xd
<immu> can i use foul language
<daftykins> not in here no, but you can use fowl language
<daftykins> damned birds!
<nicomachus> PIGEON
<daftykins> ;D
<nicomachus> STORK
<immu> i am still shocked by this unity news
<nicomachus> CA-CAAAWWWW
<immu> my head is still spinning over the news
<immu> RIP unity8
<nicomachus> good riddance
<immu> from #ubuntu they are sending everyone here
<ducasse> because #ubuntu is for technical support
<DArqueBishop> I tend to agree with nicomachus. Personally, I hated Unity.
<nicomachus> and getting all suicidal over a DE isn't technical support
<nicomachus> that's psychological support
<nicomachus> we can't do that either
<immu> goodnite
<curiousx> omg, i'm about to cry guys :'(
<nicomachus> you'll live
<matteo__> lol
<curiousx> i remember using the first unity on my (I believe) Ubuntu 11.04
<matteo__> do not cry, drink!!
<curiousx> xD good idea
<daftykins> best to only look forwards in the technology world
<nacc> wow, i had no idea anyone cared this much about anything
<curiousx> It was unstable as heck, everybody seems to hate Unity at that time, but i loved it ='(
<matteo__> me too
<OerHeks> it is not dead at all. that is what i read.
<matteo__> :O
<curiousx> OerHeks: great, most likely the comunity will keep it alive
<curiousx> Although, to be honest i'm a WM user since, idk, a year or so, i use i3 wm, does anyone else in here uses a WM ?
<imbezol> personally i can't believe it took this long. always absolutely hated unity.
<imbezol> hope to see fully support gnome and kde versions
<nacc> imbezol: huh? gnome ubuntu and kubuntu are "fully supported"
<curiousx> imbezol: Well yeah, i think that will be the good part of this, being Gnome its default shell, they'll contribute more to gnome shell i think
<matteo__> imbezol, agree for the kde part
<imbezol> nacc: getting the users off unity will mean a lot more users actually contributing to bug reports and usability reports on the other desktop
<nacc> imbezol: sure, but i don't know what you mean by "fully support gnome and kde versions"
<imbezol> it's getting back to a good state now.. but there have been pretty sketchy kde offerings
<nacc> imbezol: users are already free to not be off unity
<imbezol> kde was not what i would call production for quite a while
<imbezol> and didn't they even drop kubuntu for a short time?
<imbezol> i seem to recall the community picked it up
<platzhirsch> What does that all mean? Gnome 3?
<platzhirsch> I don't get it
<matteo__> i used opensuse and kde here is very stable
<BernhardPosselt> matteo__: but then you have to use opensuse :D
<BernhardPosselt> yast *cough*
<matteo__> maybe
<nacc> also, just so much FUD! again, one user (even if it's your) experience does not define a distribution.
<nacc> and it's all opinions and fluff so far in all the complaints and hand-wringing
<nacc> the only legitimate point i've seen so far has been about the phone side and ending convergence
<nacc> but i think the writing was on the wall for that
<BernhardPosselt> microsoft gave up
<BernhardPosselt> mozilla gave up
<matteo__> yeah nacc my opinion matters to me ;)
<BernhardPosselt> android surpassed windows
<imbezol> my beef with opensuse is that the attempt to abstract absolutely everything. if you want to open a port you have to learn how they cobbled together a firewall system instead of just using iptables
<imbezol> i like to keep it simple
<BernhardPosselt> imbezol: same here
<BernhardPosselt> you cant use the kde settings
<imbezol> their entire init system is such a mess of scripts.. can't stand it
<BernhardPosselt> you need to do it over yast
<imbezol> yup
<DArqueBishop> I doubt Microsoft "gave up". Mobile is far too important of a market. Chances are they're just working quietly on a new OS while letting the failure that is Windows Phone die.
<imbezol> but... i believe it's the most popular distro across the pond so, must be some good to it too
<BernhardPosselt> DArqueBishop: they basically killed off all developer investment
<BernhardPosselt> even if they come out with something new, no one would want to develop for it
<imbezol> still think gentoo and arch have/had the best init systems there ever were.. but they fall flat on reliable updates
<matteo__> well i do not go so deeper in desktop distros, i just use my desktop to do my work, so i just need usability and stability
<BernhardPosselt> arch works pretty fine :)
<imbezol> ubuntu's pretty decent imo. fairly clean setup
<imbezol> little more too it with systemctl
<BernhardPosselt> from time to time you need to execute some commands which are listed in their news blog
<curiousx> I do use Arch Linux since 1 year and a half
<imbezol> i like Arch.. but you run into road blocks that have you looking for the solution fairly often
<curiousx> formely ubunu user :p
<BernhardPosselt> imbezol: like?
<imbezol> i really haven't had anything like that from ubuntu in ages
<imbezol> BernhardPosselt: just open archlinux.org to see the latest
<imbezol> front page.. this is broke.. that's brokee.. etc
<imbezol> says something when it opens straight to the bug page
<BernhardPosselt> check the date :)
<platzhirsch> das So Gnome 3 for 18.04? But with other colors or what
<nacc> platzhirsch: how would we know?
<imbezol> 20170307 ?
<nacc> platzhirsch: it was announced a handful of hours ago and nothing has changed officially yet
<BernhardPosselt> its like 5-10 commands in a year that you need to run in order to keep up to date
<nacc> platzhirsch: also 18.04 isn't even open yet, so just wait
<platzhirsch> I can't.. this is insane.
<imbezol> anyways... i did like arch.. but they occasionally did things that needed "manual intervention"
<matteo__> nope, no color, b&w becouse will be a sad distro
<platzhirsch> insanity
<imbezol> and some things that were almost show stoppers
<nacc> platzhirsch: what is insane?
<platzhirsch> Black and white, oh my god
<nacc> why does everyone overreact to this news?
<platzhirsch> probably not even grayscale
<BernhardPosselt> nacc: because it sounds too good to be true
<imbezol> platzhirsch: the news i have read didn't give any details
<platzhirsch> Biggest regression ever
<BernhardPosselt> unity might have been a nice desktop but mir should not exist :D
<matteo__> :D
<platzhirsch> So, hopes are that open source contributions will now focus more on Gnome 3 and make it actually usable
<BernhardPosselt> platzhirsch: exactly
<curiousx> imbezol: Well, idk, i only can tell you that i love Arch, i switched from Ubuntu to cause a post on /r/unixporn, this post: http://imgur.com/a/icEfK
<nacc> FUD. I (and others) use Gnome 3 plenty
<nacc> please stop trying to make it seem like everythign else than Unity was terrible
<nacc> it's dumb and FUDdy
<BernhardPosselt> gnome 3 is nice but i want ubuntu helping out
<curiousx> Ubuntu to Arch cause...
<BernhardPosselt> i want ubuntu to focus on wayland to get good driver support
<imbezol> platzhirsch: try kubuntu.. find out the other 90% of linux you've been missing
<platzhirsch> imbezol: KDE is ridicilious
<drumbug1> curiousx - then why are you in #ubuntu-discuss?  Is there an #arch-discuss?
<imbezol> that spelling is ridicilious
<imbezol> :D
<platzhirsch> I know
<platzhirsch> Oh the irony
<BernhardPosselt> drumbug1: #archlinux-offtopic :)
<platzhirsch> KDE has never evolved beyond KDE 3 unfortuantely, it still has this blueish hackerspace feel to it. Same with Gnome 23
<platzhirsch> 3
<nacc> again, opinions stated as facts
<nacc> so annoying
<nacc> this is not "high quality"
<curiousx> drumbug1: i'm also in #archlinux, and many other places, just came here to discuss about Unity -.-
<matteo__> you can even install unity in arch
<imbezol> is there a channel for ubuntu discussion where there aren't a bunch of people who's sole reason for being there is to tell people what they are and are not allowed to discuss?
<BernhardPosselt> imbezol: use your irc client
<platzhirsch> yeah Arch Linux,.. that would be a great option if I wouldn't have anything else to do the whole day
<BernhardPosselt> to solve the issue :D
<curiousx> matteo__: you can, but it buggy (That is what they say, never tried it)
<matteo__> imbezol, yeah. go there, say that....LOL
<BernhardPosselt> platzhirsch: personally i think it's even less work intensive than ubuntu
<BernhardPosselt> and a bit more than debian stable
<platzhirsch> Oh, is it.
<matteo__> imbezol, guess they are not used to listen other peole ideas
<platzhirsch> well, I always assumed you need to configure more
<BernhardPosselt> ubuntu tends to not backport bugfixes
<BernhardPosselt> and dist-upgrades are time intensive
<BernhardPosselt> platzhirsch: you set it up once and then its near 0 maintenance
<drumbug1> I'll tell the next noob that asks to use Arch instead of Ubuntu because according to this group it's "less work" /s
<BernhardPosselt> im unsure if its the right distro for a noob
<imbezol> i don't think it's even about experienced vs noob to be honest
<platzhirsch> so Arch itself doesn't solve the Desktop question
<nacc> BernhardPosselt: FUD!
<imbezol> i think it's about willingness to fiddle and fix
<imbezol> ubuntu just works.. consistently
<nacc> BernhardPosselt: "ubuntu tends to not backport bugfixes"
<imbezol> arch requires some time to finagle it into working
<BernhardPosselt> nacc: they focus on security fixes only
<nacc> BernhardPosselt: no, they don't.
<BernhardPosselt> so things like audio drivers stay broken
<nacc> BernhardPosselt: you might be confusing the security team with "ubuntu"
<BernhardPosselt> thats why i actually migrated off ubuntu :D
<matteo__> imbezol, yeah. My ubuntu 1604lts with unity just rocks
<curiousx> BernhardPosselt: you went Arch to Ubuntu ?
<BernhardPosselt> ubuntu to arch
<curiousx> Oh!, ok ok
<BernhardPosselt> but that was like 4 years ago so i dont know how things are now
<nacc> right, so why even say that?
<nacc> just ridiculous
<curiousx> Are quite good pal
 * drumbug1 wonders what the ratio of arch to ubuntu users in this room is....
<imbezol> 1 to everyone else?
<BernhardPosselt> i mean fedora is fine too although closed source is a big hassle
<drumbug1> BernhardPosselt and curiousx both so far. :)
<curiousx> drumbug1: idk but conect to #archlinux, you'll see like 1700-1800 users
<curiousx> little bit less than #ubuntu
<drumbug1> I don't want to talk about arch.  That's why I'm in #ubuntu-discuss :-)
<BernhardPosselt> i thought this was an offtopic channel :D
<BernhardPosselt> so anything goes
<DArqueBishop> It's an Ubuntu discussion channel.
<Ben64> that would be the offtopic channel
<Ben64> this is -discuss
<DArqueBishop> The offtopic channel is #ubuntu-offtopic.
<BernhardPosselt> oh, interesting
<drumbug1> "This is a channel for high quality on-topic non-support discussions about Ubuntu"
<nacc> or just read the topic
<nacc> be a reasonably good netizen
<BernhardPosselt> my bad then :)
<drumbug1> the "on-topic" means ON-TOPIC
<matteo__> DArqueBishop, we are all talking about ubuntu, comparing it to other distros.
<imbezol> it will be interesting to see the results of running a main desktop manager that's in line with other distros
<imbezol> may lead to more rapid feature inclusion
<imbezol> plus with ubuntu's userbase.. i was sad to see them take all those users out of the pool when they went to unity
<BernhardPosselt> i suppose things might get better for both sides
<Ben64> you don't have to use unity to use ubuntu
<curiousx> Yeah! at that time, Mint comunity grew like heck :p
<Ben64> too bad mint is awful
<imbezol> i think the alt-
<BernhardPosselt> ubuntu devs will improve gnome and dont have to maintain unity on their own
<imbezol> i think the alt-ubuntu versions probably grew too
<drumbug1> agree
<matteo__> yeah i bet too ubuntu is losing a lot with that move
<BernhardPosselt> maintaining software is hard and so is fixing bugs
<curiousx> And so i guess Wayland will lead \m/-_-\m/
<BernhardPosselt> if people like unity they will surely continue to work on it or fork it
<curiousx> BernhardPosselt: yup, that's the beautifullness of free software (as in freedom, not beer RMS)
<Menzador> I still can't believe my eyes about Ubuntu going back to GNOME.
<curiousx> Menzador: xD
<BernhardPosselt> the thing is mir should have died long ago
<Menzador> Agreed. However, Unity was an awesome concept.
<BernhardPosselt> so it felt like ubuntu is determined to keep it
<BernhardPosselt> then all of a sudden ubuntu drops mir and unity
<BernhardPosselt> and april 1st was in reach
<imbezol> everyone knows mir crashes back to earth
<BernhardPosselt> lol
<Menzador> So for 17.10, are we still shipping Unity 7?
<nacc> Menzador: 17.10 isn't open yet, so unclear
<imbezol> i would be surprised if unity wasn't in 18.04 as an option
<Menzador> nacc: Fair enough.
<Menzador> What would be cool is a niche fork
<nacc> imbezol: i would be surprised if it was, it owuld mean support until 2023 for unity
<platzhirsch> yeah
<imbezol> nacc: there's lots of stuff that's not really supported
<platzhirsch> just looked at Gnome 3, again oh god
<nacc> imbezol: i don't know what you're talking about
<imbezol> nacc: you can install enlightenment or openbox in 16.04
<nacc> and those are supported
<Menzador> Now that Bodhi forked Enlightenment we could have "Ebuntu"
<curiousx> i liked Unity, all its version, but i always liked me more gnome shell
<imbezol> nacc: so you're telling me that every piece of software in the repo is supported?
<platzhirsch> There's also Cinnamon. Wow, where do all these distros take their color palette from
<nacc> imbezol: yes
<imbezol> nacc: what kind of support are you talking about?
<nacc> imbezol: you can file bugs, and if someone cares to fix it, they will
<platzhirsch> Yes, let's make it green, we're in the matrix. No, we're blue, hackers live forever
<nacc> just like any other open source project
<BernhardPosselt> imbezol: did you read https://what.thedailywtf.com/topic/15001/enlightened
<imbezol> nacc: so you don't think that'll be the case for unity?
<nacc> imbezol: i don't know, it's in main currently, so i think it will drop from there to universe, at least
<OerHeks> supported is a wide range, canonical supported, community supported ..
<nacc> if i had to guess
<imbezol> nacc: i would be super surprised if unity is not in the repo of 18.04
<nacc> OerHeks: good point
<implite> why cant we get a version that has multiple gui that we can choose from that offer more support for other interfaces?
<nacc> imbezol: you're right, it might be in the repo
<imbezol> implite: they're all like that
<nacc> implite: we have that already with the desktop metapackages
<tgm4883> implite: we have that already
<implite> ah ok im a noob
<implite> lol
<drumbug1> imbezol: I think if unity is dropped from 18.04 the official line will be "we're supporting Unity on 16.04 until 2021"
<imbezol> drumbug1: yeah exactly
<imbezol> it's not like they're going to delete the git when 18.04 comes out :D
<drumbug1> that "spin" makes it sound like they aren't leaving unity users in the dust (though they are!)
<drumbug1> imbezol: right!  :)
<tgm4883> drumbug1: spin?
<BernhardPosselt> however motivation to work on it will be low
<drumbug1> I don't mean anything negative... just saying that's how press releases are written
<Menzador> Lol, what is this, Fedora? :)
<BernhardPosselt> since it will all be dropped anyways
<curiousx> ok guys, nice to discuss here, cya
<platzhirsch> They're going to anihilate every trace of Unity.
<platzhirsch> That's what's going to happen
<drumbug1> well... i haven't checked the license... but i'm guessing it's a license that will allow a fork and it will show up somewhere other than launchpad
<BernhardPosselt> should be easy since its all CLAd right?
<drumbug1> ..so I wouldn't call that annihilated.
<platzhirsch> Maybe, or maybe everything will be locked down with copyright and deleted.
<platzhirsch> Who knows. Nothing is certain anymore.
<BernhardPosselt> platzhirsch: you shouldnt be so negative :)
<Menzador> We'll just have to wait and see.
<platzhirsch> :(
<imbezol> you're likely using gnome for half of what you do already anyways
<platzhirsch> imbezol: you're not my real mom
<drumbug1> according to https://launchpad.net/unity it's GPL, LGPL
<Menzador> I'm not. I'm on Ubuntu MATE. MATE forked ALL of GNOME 2.
<drumbug1> so they can't "copyright and delete"
<platzhirsch> Canonical is powerful.
<matteo__> canonical chooses ROS, cloud and IOT....and leaves unity.....this is the rise of the machines starting? ;)
<platzhirsch> Okay I stop now, sorry, I am in a funny mood.
<drumbug1> platzhirsh: ....?
<platzhirsch> Everything will be fine, in general I appreciate change like this.
<platzhirsch> Changes the powerlaw
<platzhirsch> As long as it's Linux, and I am on a ThinkPad and not Mac, everything is well..
<matteo__> w540 here ;)
<OerHeks> matteo__, yes, meet MIIMETIQ Edge >>  https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/04/04/nexiona-collaborates-with-canonical-and-dell-to-create-miimetiq-edge/
<imbezol> w530 beside me
<imbezol> Hostname: destrier - OS: Linux 4.4.0-62-generic/x86_64 - Distro: Ubuntu 16.04.2 LTS - CPU: 8 x Intel Core i7-3630QM (1795.031 MHz) - Processes: 319 - Uptime: 8d 6h 41m - Users: 2 - Load Average: 1.08 - Memory Usage: 1867.26MB/23684.12MB (7.88%) - Disk Usage: 246.32GB/679.17GB (36.27%)
<matteo__> wow
<imbezol> beauty of ubuntu, and linux in general.. is that same install has been upgraded all the way since 9.x and put into multiple different laptops over the years
<implite> am I right for saying to people that most things AMD work well on linux?
<imbezol> Hostname: castle - OS: Linux 4.4.0-66-generic/x86_64 - Distro: Ubuntu 16.04.2 LTS - CPU: 16 x AMD Ryzen 7 1700 Eight-Core (1550.000 MHz) - Processes: 366 - Uptime: 3d 3h 58m - Users: 1 - Load Average: 0.87 - Memory Usage: 3758.72MB/32166.65MB (11.69%) - Disk Usage: 1020.14GB/1619.07GB (63.01%)
<BernhardPosselt> implite: kinda depends :)
<imbezol> ^ AMD desktop.. kicks ass :D
<BernhardPosselt> the foss driver is great but slow and a bit buggy
<nicomachus> !language | imbezol
<ubot5> imbezol: Please avoid any language that may be considered offensive, including acronyms and obfuscation of such - also see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines || The main channels are English only, for other languages, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList
<imbezol> i don't use the FOSS driver myself
<imbezol> running a Radeon 280x right now.. but looking at an rx 480 this weekend
<implite> I think that AMD offer more drivers and support for everything in linux compared to other hardware places
<imbezol> i have quite a number of AMD systems on Ubuntu and i've always been pretty happy
<implite> thats what im thinking also
<imbezol> both Radeon and Nvidia have had some issues over the years but they're usually solved fairly quickly
<imbezol> sometimes bleeding edge is tough
<matteo__> actually nvidia in 1604 have an unresolved very old bug
<matteo__> blank windows borders on resume
<imbezol> oh really
<BernhardPosselt> matteo__: which would be resolved without an issue on rolling release :)
<imbezol> yeah i can't recall what it was but there was an nvidia bug that was around when i upgraded and i went with Radeon because of it
<imbezol> my w530 actually has some nastiness with using an external monitor. it has the intel and nvidia chips.. and it uses the intel to save power.. but the intel can't drive the external
<imbezol> makes for a mess
<matteo__> cannot use cuda, cntk gpu, tensorflow gpu and so on  with radeon
<matteo__> maybe i'm not able to
<imbezol> for mining?
<imbezol> there's a radeon equivalent tho
<imbezol> name escapes me but it was actually better than cuda for quite some time.. haven't looked recently
<implite> shaders is cuda in radeon i thought
<implite> maybe im confused?
<daftykins> you are :>
<matteo__> tensorflow and cntk gpu version will work with it? idk...
<daftykins> think it was opencl?
<imbezol> cgminer for radeon
<implite> well doesnt radeon have something like cuda
<daftykins> yes, opencl
<implite> ahh ok
<matteo__> i think i used it with hashcat, very bad  compared to cuda results
<imbezol> cgminer does twice the hash/s as cudaminer
<imbezol> with latest hardware
<implite> I think it works in a different way though so its hard to compare to cuda
<matteo__> i use it for simple ml, nl mostly
<matteo__> and data analisys
<implite> im trying to learn more about it with opengl and python
<implite> haven't got into opencl yet
<matteo__> are you a game developer?
<implite> im a noob just learning and playing around trying to educate my self
<imbezol> looks like radeons are much better supported for john as well
<imbezol> haven't used hashcat much
<matteo__> implite, all strats here
<implite> what is strats?
<implite> starts?
<matteo__> aorry, i meant starts
<implite> haha thought so
<matteo__> maybe they all start* is better
<matteo__> :D
<implite> people mining bitcoins with this cudaminer then?
<matteo__> here in italy they will loose all
<matteo__> energy costs a lot
<implite> seems like you would need a whole building of computers to even make it worth anything
<matteo__> yeah
<implite> nn that
<implite> I remember once in the army they had over 300+ ps3 hooked up for some cool stuff
<imbezol> generally you mine an alt-coin with a regular computer
<imbezol> something like litecoin
<imbezol> then you trade it for btc later
<imbezol> but.. the days of profit on that are long gone
<imbezol> difficulties are high enough now that you need purpose built ASICs to even hope for a positive return
<matteo__> yep
<imbezol> only way you might turn a bit of profit is if you're using existing equipment rather than having to buy it, and you rent somewhere with utilities included so you don't pay the power bill
<matteo__> and change state whell bills come home
<matteo__> :D
<implite> I bet that guy that is renting that stuff will be bought out fast
<implite> lol
<implite> Hmm might be more profit in renting the stuff to the person to do it with?
<implite> I love how malleable linux is "imbezol> you can rely on the fact that everything will change always"
<matteo__> implite, like suse simbol
<matteo__> chamaleon
<implite> I have a nice old version of a free cd that ubuntu mailed to me for free once ;)
<implite> ill have to check the version but im thinking its like 7 or something lol
<implite> I think ill try it on a vm machine just to see what will happen haha
<daftykins> :)
<james1> is unity will dissapear or is an april fools joke?
<nacc> james1: not a joke
<daftykins> it's not the 1st of april anymore.
<Bashing-om> james1: Not a joke , What will result we will have to await and see .
<james1> well I like gnome a lot. I like unity too
<Bashing-om> james1: We can anticipate that unity will go to community support . If ya like it support it .
<acheron-a> well gnome is a good fall-back, well supported infrastructure and apps
<acheron-a> i was starting to like Unity
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-04-06
<ExecSlim> How does the licensing work for unity8? Could someone just start putting it on phones and sell it?
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> morning all
<lordievader> o/
<ducasse> hiyup, everything good this morning?
<lordievader> Yeah, quite allright.
<lordievader> How about there?
<ducasse> all good so far, quite crap weather though.
<ducasse> hard at work already?
<lordievader> Jup, indeed.
<lordievader> Not great weather here either. Was quite cold this morning.
<ducasse> not sure yet if it's cold, but it's really depressingly grey. i've got fresh tea, though, so all will be well ;)
<Wirehunter> Good morning
<KristijanZic> Any news about Unity8 preview on 17.04?
<KristijanZic> *17.10?
<ducasse> 17.10? guessing it won't be there.
<BluesKaj> HI folks
<ducasse> wb BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> 'Morning ducasse
<ikevin> hey guys
<ikevin> how are you?
<ducasse> hi ikevin
<BluesKaj> Hi ikevin, fine here, and you?
<ikevin> sun is up, girls give skirts, then, all good here :D
<BluesKaj> just dawning here, need more coffee
<ikevin> here it's beer time :D
<lordievader> KristijanZic, ducasse: timing of this news is a bit unfortunate, eh
<lordievader> I suppose 17.10 will still be released with Unity.
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-touch-and-unity-8-are-not-dead-ubports-community-will-keep-them-alive-514620.shtml
<lotuspsychje> oh my...
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/04/ubuntu-18-04-ship-gnome-desktop-not-unity
<lotuspsychje> if that isnt big news
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> Hi lotuspsychje
<KristijanZic> Does anyone of you plan to join Marius and UBports to continue Unity8 and convergence effort?
 * lordievader uses KDE on Gentoo...
<lotuspsychje> !touch | KristijanZic follow the discussions there all day
<ubot5> KristijanZic follow the discussions there all day: Information about the Ubuntu Touch platform for Phone and Tablet is available here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch . Support and discussion in #ubuntu-touch
<ikevin> i've not tryed unity8, does it really a good DE?
<lotuspsychje> ikevin: wasnt finished fully
<lotuspsychje> ikevin: last news we heard, canonical said to leave the user the choice on unity7 or unity8...
<lotuspsychje> now shuttleworth says ubuntu phone was a mistake?
<KristijanZic> it's not stable just yet but it offers a great workflow on toch enabled devices. I own an ubuntu phone and use Unity8 on my convergent dell laptop, it is awesome
<lotuspsychje> i got bq 4.5 also and touch on my nexus7 tablet
<lotuspsychje> very happy on it
<ikevin> lotuspsychje, i think ubuntu phone is a mistake yes :x
<lotuspsychje> i dont think so
<lotuspsychje> i think the world is now ready for ubuntu to install on any machine
<KristijanZic> I mean I just can't see the future with gnome, gnome is not optimized at all for touch input and there are more and more touch enabled laptops
<ikevin> ubuntu for pc yes, so not for phone, and not with unity
<lotuspsychje> we aint seen nothing yet guys
<ikevin> ubuntu will fail on tablet and phone like ms have fail
<lotuspsychje> im sure some will find a way into mobile world
<lotuspsychje> thats not what mariogrip and his team think of it ikevin
<lotuspsychje> ikevin: and the XDA forums porting machines every day
<KristijanZic> I'm sure if ubuntu phone had firewall there would be a niche market but enough to keep the ship float. Just consider all the tinfoil ppl.
<ikevin> there a lot of try for porting linux on mobile device, openmoko is maybe the first, and all have failed
<lotuspsychje> android made it better then windows right?
<lotuspsychje> also linux based
<ikevin> android is a modified linux version
<lotuspsychje> but android sux alot lol
<ikevin> and android is a mobile device os, and android fail on pc world
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
<EriC^^> hey
<lordievader> lotuspsychje: Why does Android suck?
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: heard the big news yet?
<EriC^^> yeah, no more unity! :(
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: security on android is a nightmare right?
<EriC^^> this is worse than xchat not being released for 16.04
<EriC^^> :D
<lotuspsychje> lol EriC^^
<EriC^^> i guess some folks will maintain it with a ppa?
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-touch-and-unity-8-are-not-dead-ubports-community-will-keep-them-alive-514620.shtml
<EriC^^> ah nice :D
<ikevin> lotuspsychje, security on popular os is always a nightmare
<lordievader> lotuspsychje: How so? It runs SELinux.
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: big discussions going on at #ubuntu-touch
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: aha
<lotuspsychje> ikevin: thats true, hackers always try popular things on any Os
<ikevin> only unknown os are secure
<EriC^^> ubuntu is dropping ubuntu touch smartphone right?
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: got a modified android?
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: seems like it
<lordievader> lotuspsychje: ?
<lordievader> lotuspsychje: https://source.android.com/security/selinux/
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: google appstrore is full of malware apps that break security in no-time
<lotuspsychje> alot of nuke tools out there to complete override any android device
<lotuspsychje> steal everything
<lordievader> lotuspsychje: Don't think the fdroid store is any different, or the Ios store, or the Windows app store.
<lordievader> lotuspsychje: That comes with popularity.
<ikevin> lotuspsychje, it's the same when using ubuntu (or any another OS), if you install some shit, your secure OS become unsecure
<lotuspsychje> also true
<lordievader> lotuspsychje: Bit of the responsibility of the user, imo.
<BluesKaj> I won't do any personal stuff like naking on my phone
<lotuspsychje> its the users behaviour also
<BluesKaj> banking
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: totaly agree with you
<lotuspsychje> my whole country does unsafe banking on android...
<lotuspsychje> soon we will hear alot of money got stolen
<BluesKaj> these ppl that use their phones as pc gateways to the net are just asking for trouble
<lotuspsychje> true BluesKaj
<ikevin> some guys say that *bsd is the only os that is secure, that wrong, *bsd is secure because only geek use it
<BluesKaj> and I know quite a few who do
<lotuspsychje> Ios icloud, been hacked on the fappening several times...it was so secure in the cloud
<ikevin> when people do secure things, another people can break it :)
<lotuspsychje> yep
<ikevin> security is like unicorn, people talk about them so we never see them
<lotuspsychje> lol
<ikevin> -so+but
<lotuspsychje> now im really curious how 18.04 will look like
<lotuspsychje> vanilla ubuntu-gnome as default?
<ikevin> i think no inovation
<lotuspsychje> weird unity started using gnome apps like gnome-software, they knew this?
<lotuspsychje> or they were so desperate on finding new things, they used gnome apps?
<lotuspsychje> ikevin: might be no inovation then
<ikevin> ubuntu will look like MS, no inovation, just changing some graphic stuff
<lotuspsychje> lol
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: i read that they switched to gnome-software cause the software-center wasn't making money and it's just a money sink for the devs that work on it
<EriC^^> nobody was buying anything i guess
<lotuspsychje> i see..
<lotuspsychje> so our future will be gnome and snaps?
<lotuspsychje> back to oldskool lol
<EriC^^> :D
<ikevin> why paying for free software?
 * EriC^^ really doesn't like gnome
<EriC^^> why did they quit the ubuntu phone though?
<ikevin> iirc, vlc need to be payed if you use snaps, and free if you use apt
<EriC^^> google is making phones and stuff and they are making some money
 * BluesKaj is happy with kde/plasma ...so far
<lotuspsychje> you know what i really love, that the leave the user the choice of everything
<lotuspsychje> isnt that supposed to be the opensource thought?
<lotuspsychje> flavors is what makes it good right
<EriC^^> yeah freedom and choice
<EriC^^> wow though they abandoned unity altogether though, pretty amazing
<lotuspsychje> yep that i dont like lol
<lotuspsychje> was getting so used to it
<EriC^^> they designed it with phones in mind first? i mean why abandon now?
<lotuspsychje> i dont get it neither...
<EriC^^> it was like the ubuntu flagship
<BluesKaj> probly have omething that suits gnome better in the works, just not announcing it yet
<lotuspsychje> ubuntu-gnome-touch to the rescue lol
<ikevin> iirc, unity is gtk based ...
<lotuspsychje> someone will have to change alot of !triggers here heh
<lotuspsychje> dear lord
<ikevin> lunch time, cya :)
<lotuspsychje> bon apetit ikevin :p
<BluesKaj> it's probly a financial decision, the direction they took with mir and ignoring wayland was puzzling and finally realized this development was costing too much
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: the insights article says, their pumping more effort in IOT and juju stuff etc
<BluesKaj> unity being a part of that
<ikevin> lotuspsychje, merci :)
<lotuspsychje> https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/04/05/growing-ubuntu-for-cloud-and-iot-rather-than-phone-and-convergence/
<BluesKaj> shuttleworth is looking for a more secure and predictable revenue stream
<lotuspsychje> i might believe in what you said BluesKaj, perhaps they already have another plan going we cant see yet...
<lotuspsychje> life is change, what can we do?
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, it's just a guess, but that's what it smells like to me  :-)
<lotuspsychje> lets layback and wait the future to unfold :p
<Ben64> as long as i get my lts every two years idc
<lotuspsychje> Ben64: yeah i need my lts aswell..but how will it unfold is a big mystery
<lotuspsychje> alot of discussers today wow
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/04/5-questions-asking-future-ubuntu
<KristijanZic> Good news everyone: http://www.unity8.org/
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> community vs canonical
<immu> its so quite in here
<tgm4883> immu: it's early
<nicomachus> immu: this channel is almost always quiet.
<tgm4883> also true
<nicomachus> yesterday was a rarity because of the news, and trying to keep off-topic discussion out of main
<immu> going linux mint, will see whats up in 2018
<lotuspsychje> howdy baizon
<baizon> hi lotuspsychje
<baizon> sad days for ubuntu users :(
<lotuspsychje> baizon: yep, you also heard the news?
<baizon> i did even post it :(
<lotuspsychje> post it where
<baizon> on reddit
<baizon> on my post got to the front page
<lotuspsychje> wow, url?
<lotuspsychje> home?
<baizon> lotuspsychje: https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/63mxms/ubuntu_1804_to_ship_with_gnome_desktop_not_unity/
<lotuspsychje> lets c
<lotuspsychje> 1700 comments holy...
 * nacc doesn't consider it sad at all
<nacc> ubuntu finally gives up on forking the desktop is a good thing (tm)
<baizon> i dont want unity to die :/
<nacc> it won't
<nacc> as long as a community exists to support it
<nacc> I believe this was OerHeks point in #ubuntu yesterday
<lotuspsychje> wb brunch875
<lotuspsychje> and hi nacc :p
<nacc> heya
<brunch875> welcome lotuspsychje!
<brunch875> unity is the best DE
<lotuspsychje> works flawless for me
<nacc> well, to be clear
<nacc> "works flawless" != "best"
<lotuspsychje> what is it with mark, to always say we were wrong about...
<nacc> or at least not necessarily
<lotuspsychje> the ubuntu touch guys worked like day & night to achieve stuff on mobile
<lotuspsychje> understandable they wanna keep that alive
<nacc> right, but afaict, the mobile side is pretty dead
<nacc> no new ubuntu phones on the horizon on the wiki
<nacc> so it's all well and good to make a nice product
<nacc> but nowhere to deploy it makes it a dead product still
<nacc> (IMO)
<lotuspsychje> nacc: but alot of linux enthousiasts like their ubuntu phones right
<nacc> lotuspsychje: yes, the cost of early adoption
<nacc> not that different from that ouya thing IMO
<lotuspsychje> hey acheron-a
<acheron-a> hello lotuspsychje
<acheron-a> i can believe unity is going away
<acheron-a> can=can't
<lotuspsychje> its the main news today acheron-a :p
<acheron-a> yeah
<OerHeks> unity will stay, unity8 will be dropped or ... who knows? https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/04/06/canonical_cuts_jobs_with_unity_bullet/
<acheron-a> i'm on Cinn DE 3.2 right now running on ubuntu
<OerHeks> oh .. https://unity8.org/
<nicomachus> lol, of course
<acheron-a> because i tried gnome and thats not an option
<nicomachus> acheron-a: MATE? or tweak gnome to your liking with a new WM or something
<nicomachus> or conky
<nicomachus> or a dock
<acheron-a> OerHeks, thats shocking news
<nicomachus> it's linux. you can do whatever you want
<acheron-a> nicomachus, exactly
<lotuspsychje> im not waiting to use gnome shell either..
<acheron-a> i found you can bypass mint and just load the DE from where they probaly get it from
<acheron-a> ppa:embrosyn/cinnamon
<acheron-a> wow, half the staff
 * nacc isn't sure how much the register should be trusted for facts
<acheron-a> that really lowers morale for those who remain and whatever reason can't leave
<acheron-a> i went thru that at HP
<BluesKaj> looks like an IPO is next on the Canonical agenda
<acheron-a> yup
<BluesKaj> seems debian is my refuge
<acheron-a> looks like they are focusing on enterprise and the cloud
<pauljw> it is the future...
<nacc> does anyone make any money on linux on the desktop?
<nacc> afaict, no
<nacc> the munich thing was the biggest deployment iirc -- and that's being undone, even if for political reasons
<BenderRodriguez> I was told to come here to air my complaints with Shuttleworth
<nacc> lol
<acheron-a> well unity was pretty much the only distro that had a full staff of paid devs
<nacc> acheron-a: right
<nacc> i think rh workstation (if it still exists) also has/had a team
<BenderRodriguez> It enrages me that hundreds of engineers were tasked with making Unity while Gnome 3 languished. Think of all the enhancements and bug fixes that could have been pushed upstream from the Ubuntu development team
<pauljw> gnome isn't an ubuntu project.
<BenderRodriguez> What a colossal waste of resources
 * nacc would be surprised if that count actually was hundreds
<nacc> the entire company is in the hundreds
<BenderRodriguez> nacc: right, but I'm sure they have outside contributions as well
<nacc> ok, then they weren't "tasked with" anything, they made a choice
<BenderRodriguez> again
<BenderRodriguez> What a colossal waste of resources
<nacc> ubuntu gnome has existed the whole time
<nacc> and has been getting changes, afaict
<BenderRodriguez> Not at the pace and focus of Unity
<acheron-a> well look at what mint has done and Debian is still there too
<BenderRodriguez> and Ubuntu Gnome only recently began picking up steam
<BenderRodriguez> Either way, Ubuntu
<nacc> BenderRodriguez: i don't disagree with you, i just don't think rage achieves anything
<nacc> esp. in this channel, as none of us are in charge
<BenderRodriguez> or rather, Shuttleworth, is gunning for Red Hat
<DArqueBishop> I think it's silly to get angry about it.
<BenderRodriguez> He wants Ubuntu to be an enterprise OS
<BenderRodriguez> that saddens me
<DArqueBishop> It was a project they thought was worthwhile, and it turned out that it wasn't working for them.
 * nacc doesn't speak to someone else's wants
<DArqueBishop> Shrug your shoulders and move on.
 * nacc does think company owners want their company's to be profitable
<pauljw> he wants Canonical to be solvent, without relying on his fortune to keep it afloat..
<nacc> and as i said, i don't think desktop makes money anywhere
<nacc> (linux desktop)
<BenderRodriguez> right, in order tobe solvent you have to sell the soul and purpose of the initiative
<nacc> pauljw: yeah, that seems to be the primary motivation
<BenderRodriguez> Ubuntu was primaril a desktop OS meant to offer a bridge for Windows users
<pauljw> stop giving it away, that would be the first step to making money.
<nacc> BenderRodriguez: uh, i don't think 'unity' was ever the heart and soul of initiative, do you have a documentation of that?
<BenderRodriguez> now they push cloud infrastructure like it's the greatest thing since sliced bread
<nacc> BenderRodriguez: or for the second statement?
<DArqueBishop> BenderRodriguez: you don't exactly keep your soul if you die, either (aka, go bankrupt).
<tgm4883> I doubt Ubuntu's primary reason for existing was ever to be a 'bridge'
<BenderRodriguez> nacc: I'm refering to the project as a whole.
<nacc> BenderRodriguez: right, documentation?
<BenderRodriguez> tgm4883: Of course it was. The old motto was reflective of that
<BenderRodriguez> tgm4883: "linux for human beings"?
<BenderRodriguez> remember that/
<nacc> lol
<nacc> how is that "migrate from windows"?
<tgm4883> BenderRodriguez: being a bridge suggests that it's users would eventually move to other linux distros
<BenderRodriguez> tgm4883: no. Being a bridge suggests they wanted people to move from Windows to Linux
<BenderRodriguez> or rather
<BenderRodriguez> Ubuntu
<BenderRodriguez> anyway, the point being, those days are gnoe
<Fingel> I think if even 1% of the people contributed back to their desktop environment of choice instead of bitching about it, linux on the desktop would be amazing. It is open source after all. We wouldn't need a Canonical to do it for us.
<BenderRodriguez> gone*. Ubuntu is an enterprise company now
<nacc> 100 ^5s for Fingel
<nacc> BenderRodriguez: Ubuntu is not a company
<BenderRodriguez> Canonical.
<BenderRodriguez> Dude
<BenderRodriguez> don't split hairs
<Fingel> nacc: what does that mean
<nacc> BenderRodriguez: don't rant without facts
<tgm4883> Fingel: high five = ^5
<Fingel> ah
<acheron-a> if there is true interest in Unity, it will carry on in FOSS
<nacc> Fingel: i emphatically agree with you :)
<BenderRodriguez> nacc: don't split hairs. You're detracting from my point and you obviously knew what I meant.
<tgm4883> There's already people that said they will carry on Unity
<Fingel> https://unity8.org/
<nacc> BenderRodriguez: Canonical has always been a company. I don't know what you mean "enterprise company".
<tgm4883> ^
<BenderRodriguez> nacc: then you don't know what Canonical is doing to Ubuntu
<BenderRodriguez> thus have no room to comment on it
<BenderRodriguez> move on
<tgm4883> BenderRodriguez: let's stay civil shall we
<DArqueBishop> BenderRodriguez: your point seems to be, "How dare Canonical realize that they actually need to make money."
<BenderRodriguez> They're making money by turning Ubuntu into smoething it wasn't meant to be
<BenderRodriguez> is my point
<tgm4883> BenderRodriguez: what's the root of your anger, that Canonical is no longer funding Unity development?
<acheron-a> it was all about shedding bodies for that something that was given away to attract investors
<nacc> BenderRodriguez: if you love unity so much, contribute to it, no one is stopping you
<tgm4883> BenderRodriguez: if that's your point, it's debatable. Moving back to Gnome doesn't mean that it's no longer "for human beans"
<BenderRodriguez> Canonical is trying to turn Ubuntu into a enterprise linux distro, like Red Hat, with a somewhat abandoned UI experience that only takes whatever is given from upstream providers and just roll some expensive support package
<pauljw> you know this how?
<tgm4883> BenderRodriguez: so?
<BenderRodriguez> it's on their website?
<BenderRodriguez> it's in their business offerings?
<pauljw> there are many ui's available, unity is not the definition of ubuntu.  it was hated when first introduced.
<tgm4883> BenderRodriguez: let's just pretend that what you're saying is true. That has zero impact on the flavors
<tgm4883> The flavors can and will continue doing their own thing
<nacc> if the argument is that if unity never existed, then gnome would be better, that's probably reasonable to conclude
<nacc> but gnome is already better than it was before
<pauljw> ubuntu server is already very much an enterprise linux.
<nacc> so it's a matter of degrees
<nacc> pauljw: yep
<tgm4883> nacc: I'd concede that, however isn't Gnome upstream resistant to outside patches?
<nacc> tgm4883: honestly, i'm not sure :)
<DArqueBishop> Unity isn't the first time, nor will it be the last time, a company devoted resources to a project that simply did not pan out for them.
<Fingel> no. I sent in a patch 2 days ago
<nacc> there you go :)
<Fingel> they are very open to patches
<nacc> tgm4883: i think there was some restructuring in their org, but i might be misremebering
<Fingel> https://wiki.gnome.org/Newcomers/
<tgm4883> Fingel: sending in patches and getting patches accepted is different, but I don't follow it much
<BenderRodriguez> I mean, take a look at what Linux Mint is doing with their limited resources. Now imagine if Canonical invested as heavily into the desktop market providing really good user experience and stable code, something that takes a lot of time and money and what the smaller projects like Kubuntu and Xubuntu simply cannot provide
<nacc> *why* would canonical invest heavily in the 'desktop market'?
<nacc> they were doing it for convergence (afaict)
<tgm4883> BenderRodriguez: what exactly is Linux Mint doing?
<nacc> and convergence is being abandoned, as is most of mobile
<BenderRodriguez> Because desktop is what made Ubuntu popular and they should not abandon it for the sake of money
<nacc> lol
<nacc> and made $0
<tgm4883> BenderRodriguez: so who pays for those desktop developers then?
<nacc> so it's a giant money pit, as it has been for anyone who has tried to do this
<nacc> note the only desktops that are profitable, it seems like to me, are those you don't get a choice on (and so pay for no matter what) macos and wintel
<pauljw> tgm4883, they work for free don't they?? :)
 * nacc understood us to be discussion canonical, which is paid employees
<nacc> *discussing
<tgm4883> pauljw: can we pay them like creative people? In exposure?
<nacc> tgm4883: like ... nudity opportunities? :)
<pauljw> :)
<nacc> you get a flash and you get a flash and you get a flash!
<tgm4883> nacc: I think I'd rather eat
<nacc> tgm4883: :)
<tgm4883> BenderRodriguez: I'm as sad as the next person as I like Unity, however I don't think Canonical owes anyone to continue developing it
<pauljw> everyone who thinks unity8 is so important needs to go the unity8.org site and setup a couple hundred dollar per month contribution to support the fork.
<lotuspsychje> tgm4883: last time mark said, they will leave the user the choice..unity7 or 8
<nicomachus> pauljw: LOL
<nicomachus> "but I want it and I want it now and I want it free and I don't wanna contribute"
<DArqueBishop> nicomachus: sounds about right.
<nicomachus> "JUST GIVE IT TO ME, I DESERVE IT"
<tgm4883> pauljw: time or money, not both
<DArqueBishop> I'd post a link to a comic showing how I feel about a lot of this complaining, but I've been told it would not promote worthwhile discussion.
<pauljw> and i want it perfect...
<DArqueBishop> (Not by anyone here, mind.)
<nicomachus> DArqueBishop: let's see it. As long as it's not vulgar or NSFW
<lotuspsychje> lol
<DArqueBishop> Vulgar is debatable.
<DArqueBishop> https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2003/06/30/also-known-as-blackmail
<nacc> lol
<nicomachus> lol
<pauljw> :)
<ducasse> \o
<pauljw> o/
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
<lotuspsychje> hi hendrix
<lotuspsychje> http://techrights.org/2017/04/05/philips-ericsson-microsoft-have-trolls/
<lotuspsychje> http://phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Canonical-Reg-Jobs-Investments
<poinku> What's the future of Ubuntu
<CountryfiedLinux> I'm wondering the same thing.
<CountryfiedLinux> Too bad they're making us wait for a year.
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/04/ubuntu-18-04-ship-gnome-desktop-not-unity
<nacc> poinku: taht question is pointlessly vague
<CountryfiedLinux> I'll be testing the alpha images when they come out months before then. :)
<nacc> poinku: do you mean unity specifically?
<poinku> Yes
<lotuspsychje> erle-: its not recommended to join irc as root
<nacc> poinku: well, presumably community will maintain it if they care to and it will be a flavor/installable still
<nacc> poinku: just not necessarily the default
<erle-> lotuspsychje, #yolo
<tgm4883> !stab | erle-
<erle-> pro tip: I am not root.
<lotuspsychje> erle-: its your machine, do whatever you want
<tgm4883> also, yolo is dumb
<lotuspsychje> #reincarnation
<lotuspsychje> lol
<tgm4883> Should be used with things like "Using the hand rail when I go down stairs #YOLO"
<lotuspsychje> hehe
<lotuspsychje> here's a nice one:
<lotuspsychje> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=ubuntu-unity-refocus&num=1
<lotuspsychje> new triggers in tha house: !jack !mkusb !rollinghwe
<OerHeks> !lotus
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> !checkyourinvites-oerheks
<ubot5> lotuspsychje: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<nicomachus> !jack
<ubot5> The JACK Audio Connection Kit is a sound server meant for professional applications, allowing different audio protocols and applications to interconnect in nearly unlimited ways. This is the core of Ubuntu Studio's audio workflow. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/What%20is%20JACK for more information on JACK in general.
<lotuspsychje> i always used sux for that, was pretty nice
<lotuspsychje> !info sux precise
<ubot5> sux (source: sux): wrapper around su which will transfer your X credentials. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.0.1-6 (precise), package size 9 kB, installed size 64 kB
<lotuspsychje> too bad they took it out
<lotuspsychje> never saw a .deb for a bank before :p
<daftykins> totally_legit_no_really.deb
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> hey lotus \o all well?
<lotuspsychje> haha
<lotuspsychje> yeah mate, you daftykins ?
<daftykins> none too shabby here thanks! shorts weather :D
<lotuspsychje> :p
<daftykins> had a nice 1km run around the park
<lotuspsychje> i cant run 1km..
<lotuspsychje> i can run away though
<OerHeks> Will Guernsey stay with Europe??
<OerHeks> :-D
<daftykins> we never have been ;)
<daftykins> maybe we'll up anchor and sail out away ;D
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> the new atlantis
<ducasse> let's hope guernsey doesn't break up and sink also :)
<lotuspsychje> loool
<daftykins> hey it's made of tough stuff!
 * daftykins kicks the floor
<daftykins> :D
 * lotuspsychje calls noah
<ducasse> better get mischief a life jacket
<lotuspsychje> 2 dogs, 2 cats, 2 irc users...
<daftykins> ah man the damn neighour cat has been sitting on my courtyard deck and making Mischief too afraid to even come outside
<daftykins> not cool, neighour cat!
<ducasse> get a squirt gun.
<daftykins> yip that'd definitely be handy
<ducasse> a glass of water will do as well, just aim in the general direction - they won't take the chance to stay in the same spot :)
<lotuspsychje> thats not easy to target
<lotuspsychje> a cat is bloody fast
<daftykins> ah as soon as i unlock the back door she runs off and scales the wall to escape my courtyard
<daftykins> a neighbour told me she used to live in my house, so i feel bad
<lotuspsychje> perhaps insert fuel in the squirt gun?
<daftykins> :O
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: don't get mean, now
<lotuspsychje> lol
<ducasse> daftykins: homeless cat?
<daftykins> well when the neighbour told me i thought she meant she had taken her on, but now i am not so sure
<daftykins> another neighbour just today told me she sleeps nearby, so yeah - it's possible she has nowhere to go :( shame on whoever left her like that
<ducasse> people who move and leave their cats behind are mean and should be flayed and salted :-/
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: think he doesnt understand it yet
<lotuspsychje> !info firefox xenial
<ubot5> firefox (source: firefox): Safe and easy web browser from Mozilla. In component main, is optional. Version 52.0.2+build1-0ubuntu0.16.04.1 (xenial), package size 47534 kB, installed size 113326 kB
<daftykins> ducasse: agreed!
 * ducasse gets out the scalpel and salt shaker
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> who's mean now?
<ducasse> that's towards humans, big difference ;)
<ducasse> nah, i wouldn't do that. i might've tried to take the cat to a shelter, though.
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om
<daftykins> yeah i just don't know the full story about her - and she runs away over a wall which flat roofs are beyond, so i'm not scaling that :D
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Imagine it if ya will .. been a L O N G day for ya ?
<ducasse> daftykins: you'd need to know she is in fact homeless first, then try bribing her to you with food etc.
<ducasse> hi Bashing-om
<daftykins> indeedy
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: short day work todays
<daftykins> ducasse: i would hope such a cat rescue would not be comparable to this - https://i.imgur.com/ZH5YgW9.gifv
<ducasse> lol
<ducasse> cats have built-in knives :)
<daftykins> that crab isn't taking any chances
<lotuspsychje> have a nice one guys
<lotuspsychje> nite nite
<ducasse> "gimme your wallet!"
<ducasse> nite, lotuspsychje
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Good to read ya also . see what main is like in just a bit !
<OerHeks> we love to give you the slow method, when asking for a quick way
<daftykins> o0
<OerHeks> after yesterdays unity story, i developed an post-traumatic-separation-anxiety
<daftykins> :>
<Bashing-om> I no sweat .. xfce4 !
<OerHeks> computer says restart .. i have done updates hours ago ..
<OerHeks> silly unity
<Bashing-om> OerHeks: And after re-start all still good ? ( always that moment of uncertainty !)
<OerHeks> Yes, ofcourse i get noissues :-(
<OerHeks> c/ no issues
<OerHeks> somehow i never get issues..
<Bashing-om> OerHeks: Cause you run clean !
<OerHeks> should i try install a theme or something?
<OerHeks> or add a repo :-P
<OerHeks> even pulling the plug does not ruin ubuntu ...
<OerHeks> Why, Mark, Why ...
<Bashing-om> Nap Time ! bbl
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> enjoy :)
<Bashing-om> will ! thanks . be back soonest I can :)
<OerHeks> nighty night Bashing-om
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-04-07
<KristijanZic> good news, Unity8: https://plus.google.com/110699558853693437587/posts/gUB2xRn2Dyu
<OerHeks> yay, next to https://github.com/unity8org/unity8org now also https://unity.ubports.com/
<OerHeks> people need choise
<OerHeks> be smart, register unity9 now!
<xangua> Fork? New Ubuntu flavor?
<KristijanZic> OerHeks: hah, it's taken at least the .com one, .org still free
<OerHeks> smells like it
<Bashing-om> Baaacckkk . refreshed to the point I can carry on :)
<daftykins> \o/
<Bashing-om> Here I go again, see what happens :P
<acheron-a> hello Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> acheron-a: Hey hey .. what it be ??
<acheron-a> its all good
<daftykins> i best sleep, g'night folks
<acheron-a> g'nite
<Bashing-om> Just heard on TV that our president has ordered retalitory strike on Syria .. wow !
<Bashing-om> nite daftykins Sleep well my friend .
<OerHeks> Bashing-om, i read the Russians knew, so it is oke... maybe
<OerHeks> now is certainly a turningpoint.
<Bashing-om> OerHeks: Yeah .. just wonder what prompts the US escalation of the military presence in Syria . A change from the Obamma administration's position .
<OerHeks> i focus on NKorea too..
<Bashing-om> OerHeks: There is that fact too - A stiff warning that Trump will take no flack ( as he formerly did warn) .
<OerHeks> now he striked, on behalve of the children, why does USA not ratify the UN childrens rights?
<OerHeks> pom-ie-pom
<Bashing-om> OerHeks: Uh HUh .. there is that .. children should be raised not exploited - we live in a total world environment . Our children are are what will be .
<OerHeks> and the real war is in a totally different place, 5600 miles east .. = Fukushima Daiichi
<Bashing-om> World politics .. jockying for control of resources . Greedy men !
<OerHeks> one needs to learn 20 years before being productive for 20 years. then the warrenty is over :-D
<Bashing-om> OerHeks: Truth ! I often look back at that 20 year old - 40 years later .. the things I would do different !
<platzhirsch> Is there a lighter Gnome theme
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<alkisg> Hi all!
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: \o - shift change time :)
<lotuspsychje> hey alkisg & Bashing-om
<lotuspsychje> what you guys think of the unity vanish?
<alkisg> Greatest news ever!
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> you like gnome alkisg ?
<alkisg> Now if only MATE switched to supporting gnome-flashback instead :D
<alkisg> My requirement is simple: I need something that runs on pentium 4's
<alkisg> That essentially means 1 GB RAM and no 3D
<alkisg> So... we've been using gnome-flashback, and switched to mate for 16.04
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: I never was a big fan of unity - though I can use it . I like KISS .
<lotuspsychje> so what about the ubuntu touch phones?
<alkisg> Having a lot of DEs means we waste a whole lot of time just making sure our apps run everywhere, instead of adding new features etc. I don't like that part of the linux ecosystem.
<alkisg> I don't think canonical is big enough to hope to have a market share in phones...
<lotuspsychje> alkisg: but canonical started unity, then mark said to leave the user the choice on unity7 or 8, now they purge it?
<alkisg> They start a lot of things trying to make money, and abandon them if they don't make money
<alkisg> That's how companies work
<lotuspsychje> right, i understand that
<lotuspsychje> still, theirs a whole community to disagree now
<alkisg> The problem is that users, applications developers, sysadmins etc have to switch apps, init systems etc all the time
<alkisg> Nah I'm fine with upstart, bzr, unity, software-center etc all dying :D
<alkisg> Application development isn't what canonical does best
<lotuspsychje> well im surely curious on 18.04 now
<alkisg> That'll mostly be ubuntu-gnome, right?
<lotuspsychje> alkisg: you think it will be vanilla or tuned?
<alkisg> I really hope it'll be debian with just an ubuntu font and theme, but I doubt they'll make me happy :(
<lotuspsychje> heh
<alkisg> My dream is for debian to fix their feature freeze dates at the same time as ubuntu, so that most apps will be exactly the same
<lotuspsychje> sounds good idea
<alkisg> And then LTS releases .1 to .5 will be just syncs from debian
<xangua> Didn't canonical suggested that too Debian and they say no?
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: I been watching on #ubuntu-release, and the talk is to remove upstart in 17.04 . will be interesting to see the difference vetween an upgraded 17.04 and a fresh install, if that happens .
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: is that the channel where new packages spam?
<alkisg> xangua: dunno, but if so,  I'd like to read the reasoning behind their refusal
<alkisg> Debian could still "release when it's ready"; I was only talking about the freeze date. Where's the harm in having a predictable freeze?
<lotuspsychje> alkisg: can you find something here? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubuntu/ForDebianDevelopers
<xangua> alkisg: because when it's ready?
<xangua> Well it was more like canonical suggested Debian to release a new version every two years... So they could sync it with the LTS
<alkisg> That won't work
<alkisg> Because they have specific methodology about RC bugs etc
<alkisg> But I haven't heard of anything opposing to fixed freeze dates
<alkisg> With specific freeze dates, it would be ubuntu helping debian with rc bugs squashing, ie the opposite
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/unity-8-now-has-a-new-home-over-at-ubports-development-will-start-very-soon-514663.shtml
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/red-hat-and-fedora-teams-welcome-ubuntu-to-gnome-and-wayland-with-open-arms-514661.shtml
<alkisg> "...and hopefully Flatpak," ==> yeah that too; snappy is just another 5 years of wasted development power
<Bashing-om> me eyes are crossing . time to back out of here . G nite o/
<lotuspsychje> morning kostkon
<kostkon> Hey,  good morning
<ducasse> moring all
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> \o
<lordievader> Hey ducasse, how are you?
<ducasse> ok thanks, and you? gotten your coffee yet?
<lordievader> Indeed.
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse & lordievader
<ducasse> morning lotus, how are you?
<lotuspsychje> great here
<lotuspsychje> day off movie day here
<ducasse> nice, what are you going to watch?
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: belgian movie the premier
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: and fifty shades darker
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje
<lordievader> Ha, Fifty Shades
<lordievader> Enjoy :P
<ducasse> i'm guessing you were not the one who chose fifty shades... ;)
<lotuspsychje> not sure it will be good
<ducasse> it very likely won't :)
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: we both liked the first one
<lotuspsychje> and my gf read the books
<lotuspsychje> any other movies you guys reccomend?
<ducasse> well, hope you enjoy noth films :)
<ducasse> i'm waiting for the new alien movie
<lotuspsychje> is there?
<ducasse> in may, i think
<lotuspsychje> cool
<ducasse> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2316204/?ref_=nv_sr_1
<lotuspsychje> trailer looking good ducasse
<ducasse> aiui, this one and one more was always planned. in the last one the aliens will arrive at earth >:-)
<ducasse> i hope they make that one as well :)
<lordievader> The new Alien looks very good :)
<lordievader> I'm also waiting for the remake of IT.
<lordievader> Trailer was pretty good.
<ducasse> the alien monster is my personal favorite movie monster, i can't wait for this one. 'it' i'm not sure about, but i'll probably still see it. i expect it won't be as long as the original?
<lordievader> Hope not
<lordievader> I still find the way the Alien was filmed in the first movie quite well done. You never see the creature full in frame.
<lordievader> Things really went downhill with alien 3...
<lotuspsychje> i still have nightmares of playing doom3
<lotuspsychje> aliens jumping out the ceiling
<ducasse> the first is a classic, two is ok and then... three is better than four, though, so if they keep to the formula the new one will be atrocious ;)
<lordievader> Nah, I'm hoping for one as good as the first ;)
<lordievader> Oeh, I'm also waiting for the sequel to Blade Runner :)
<ducasse> me too, but _very_ nervous about it.
<ducasse> also, the dark tower is expected this year, right? they _can't_ screw that up, but i'm afraid they already have.
<lordievader> Dark Tower?
 * lordievader heads to Google.
<ducasse> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1648190/?ref_=nv_sr_1
<ducasse> based on the book series by stephen king, which i _love_.
<lordievader> Looks interesting
<ducasse> i'm a big fan of the book series, but making a single movie out of them is hopeless.
<lordievader> That is usually the case ;)
<lotuspsychje> bbl breakfast
<ducasse> there were originally seven books, each about 500 pages, written over thirty years or so. hard to squeeze that into two hours. i've read a little about it, which seemed to indicate they were going to focus on parts of the books i didn't even like, so i'm concerned :)
<lordievader> Eet ze
<lotuspsychje> tnx lordievader
<ducasse> enjoy
<lotuspsychje> tnx
<lotuspsychje> !info gnome-games-app
<ubot5> Package gnome-games-app does not exist in xenial
 * lotuspsychje is idling in #ubuntu-release
<lotuspsychje> !info retro-gtk zesty
<ubot5> Package retro-gtk does not exist in zesty
<lotuspsychje> morning brunch875
<brunch875> hayo lotuspsychje
<brunch875> I see a lot of people panicking at the end of the mir-project
<lotuspsychje> brunch875: where?
<brunch875> abandoning ship out of the blue as if ubuntu itself is going down
<brunch875> drama queens!
<lotuspsychje> lol
<brunch875> I hope I'm not doing the same with the phone
<lotuspsychje> i want ubuntu-touch to continue also
<lotuspsychje> i hope the team finds a way to install on every mobile
<brunch875> Indeed... but I have to admit I have mixed feelings about it
<lotuspsychje> brunch875: i think the devs did a great job already with so many devices
<lotuspsychje> made a big impact in my opinion
<brunch875> lotuspsychje: I couldn't agree more, ubuntu touch is magnificent
<brunch875> I was really excited to see convergence happening
<brunch875> but I'm not sure how much power the guys at UB will pull
<lotuspsychje> brunch875: well from the start, i really hoped i could have a tablet/phone with a terminal to work with, just as the desktop
<brunch875> my phone saved my ass when my laptop died
<lotuspsychje> too bad they locked that from the start
<brunch875> the raspberry pi didn't have nearly enough power
<brunch875> I wonder if easing a bit on confinement would've made the project more viable now
<lotuspsychje> brunch875: i also think so...
<brunch875> it's just the whole app lifecycle and confinement...
<lotuspsychje> thats what i said in ubuntu-touch yesterday
<brunch875> I wonder if they decided to shut it down because confinement was really getting in the way of the desktop
<lotuspsychje> you can invent something, then take it away..the spirit will continue
<lotuspsychje> cant
<lotuspsychje> its a matter of time some brand will choose linux on mobile
<brunch875> hard to tell
<brunch875> android is linux after all
<lotuspsychje> i hear the new samsung s8 got convergence now?
<lotuspsychje> the world is ready for all new ideas & brainstorm
<brunch875> pff nah... whenever they pull out "convergence" it's just a wannabe layer
<brunch875> ubuntu was the closest to convergence
<lotuspsychje> indeed
<lotuspsychje> i think we aint seen nothing yet
<brunch875> I would personally scavenge the whole unity8 interfaces
<brunch875> get rid of all confinement
<brunch875> and have vanilla ubuntu run on the phone
<lotuspsychje> that would be so nice
<brunch875> surely it won't be as secure to have applications peer on each other
<brunch875> but that's what the desktop has anyway
<brunch875> then give the option to install applications with snappy and be done with it
<brunch875> unfortunately there's still the whole situation with the linux kernel + drivers
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<brunch875> I guess that's what sailfish is doing, right?
<brunch875> I wonder if the guys at UBports will follow this route
<brunch875> it would be what I'd do myself
<lotuspsychje> not sure...
<lotuspsychje> brunch875: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_for_mobile_devices
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: "run on all devices" is an impossibly wide criteria, unfortunately. there's a zillion android devices with different hw in them, many need proprietary modules.
<lotuspsychje> i know ducasse its my silent dream :p but im pretty sure new things will come to us soon
<lotuspsychje> escpecially when you shutdown thriven users...they will come forward even more
<lotuspsychje> bbl :p
<trijntje_> How are people feeling about the recent announcments about unity8 and MIR?
<ducasse> mir going away is probably for the best, imo
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<ducasse> \o BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> Hi ducasse
<lordievader> Hey BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> Hi lordievader
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<BluesKaj> fine thanks, had a good sleep in this morning, and you?
<ducasse> that sounds very nice indeed :)
<BluesKaj> ducasse, every now and then we all need to sleep later than normal
<ducasse> absolutely :)
<lordievader> BluesKaj: Doing good. Could have slept better though.
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
<BluesKaj> Hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey there BluesKaj
<lotuspsychje> http://phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Mark-Shuttleworth-CEO-Return
<lotuspsychje> http://phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Mir-Wayland-Dream
<ducasse> \o lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> wb ducasse
<lotuspsychje> movie pause :p
<lotuspsychje> hey acheron-a
<acheron-a> hello lotuspsychje
<ducasse> man, some days i'm just so happy to be using linux - it sometimes amazes me how configurable things really are :)
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: what are you thinking about?
<ducasse> it just annoyed me that in bash C-k only kills to the end of the line and C-u only to the beginning, but it was easy to remap C-k to kill the whole line no matter the position through readline
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: fantastic how linux communicates with a machine
<lotuspsychje> with the help of the user :p
<ducasse> admittedly that's just a small thing, but it's just nice that you can change every little thing to suit your needs
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<ducasse> the downside is of course that you can get stuck for hours fiddling with every little detail ;)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<acheron-a> and then learning how to back that up ;)
<acheron-a> dconf, gsettings, etc.
<lotuspsychje> and how to not forgetting them in the future
<lotuspsychje> !info spark
<ubot5> spark (source: spark): SPARK programming language toolset. In component universe, is optional. Version 2012.0.deb-11 (xenial), package size 2023 kB, installed size 9314 kB
<ducasse> acheron-a: i try to avoid things that do not use plain text config files, so not a problem for me :)
<acheron-a> yes, i keep detailed notes on setups and have developed some nice scripts to run, i am going to another computer to run it
<acheron-a> bbiab
<lotuspsychje> happy easter: https://hastebin.com/ujojihuwum.bash
<ducasse> cute :)
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> afternoon xangua
<xangua> Morning ð
<lotuspsychje> http://www.deviantart.com/art/Nix-Box-Manjaro-385034794
<nicomachus> lotuspsychje: is that yours??
<ducasse> i3-gaps, it looks like
<nicomachus> or awesomewm
<lotuspsychje> no nicomachus just an i3 i found i find nice
<nicomachus> but probably i3-gaps. I just don't know if i3 can do the big gaps around the outside.
<lotuspsychje> with a cat for ducasse :p
<nicomachus> I hate that clock.
<ducasse> awesome has gaps?
<nicomachus> oh: stuff: urxvt w. tmux (credit to eternalkernel's blog), weechat, feh, i3, i3-bar, conky piped with colors through JSON, conky topbar (my own), ncmpcpp, ranger...
<nicomachus> ducasse: it can, IIRC
<nicomachus> but it's i3
<nicomachus> deosn't even say i3-gaps.... odd. I guess you can just add the gaps in the config manually
<ducasse> i3 by itself can't do gaps, you need the -gaps fork.
<stevessss> so.. gnome is the future?
<stevessss> .... I was using windowmaker myself on all my ubuntu boxes
<lotuspsychje> stevessss: on 18.04 it will
<stevessss> and wayland or Xorg at users choice
<lotuspsychje> http://phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Mir-Wayland-Dream
<stevessss> will wayland support network transpearancy so I can run gimp on a remote machine with more memory?
<stevessss> (over gig ethernet probably just like Xorg remote requires)
<stevessss> also will they make Xming and Xquartz for wayland on non-linux to display remote apps?
<nicomachus> stevessss: the future is as you make
<nicomachus> it
<stevessss> will $DISPLAY still exist on wayland?
<ducasse> the wayland protocol is not network transparent, no.
<stevessss> can wayland be made network transparent?
<lotuspsychje> welcome Menzador
<Menzador> lotuspsychje: lol, hi
<ducasse> not directly, it will need to be done on top.
<ducasse> stevessss: so vnc, rdp etc.
<stevessss> my feelign is that if wayland becomes default on most linux distros, then Xorg is goign to get phased out and eventually cease development(in 5-10 years)
<stevessss> vnc, rdp etc only support sharing an entire desktop
<stevessss> not a single window
<stevessss> rdesktop supports showing only 1 window at a time while copying entire desktop over network, making a fake appearance of sharing a single window
<Menzador> There is a maintenance release due for Xorg, but who knows when it will come.
<lotuspsychje> stevessss: http://news.softpedia.com/news/red-hat-and-fedora-teams-welcome-ubuntu-to-gnome-and-wayland-with-open-arms-514661.shtml
<Menzador> Hehe, I was just looking at that article.
<ducasse> stevessss: the protocol does not support it and it won't be easy due to how things work in wayland aiui.
<stevessss> remember the mir desktop?
<nicomachus> no
<nicomachus> because it was never given a stable release. becaues it was so awful.
<Menzador> Wayland, however... There are really only a few desktops or WMs that run it by default yet.
<lotuspsychje> wb brunch875
<lotuspsychje> afternoon baizon
<baizon> hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> next week we will know 18.04 codename?
<nacc> lotuspsychje: uh ... no?
<nacc> lotuspsychje: next week we will probably know 17.10 codename
<lotuspsychje> nacc: but when will 18.04 start to deploy
<nacc> lotuspsychje: in october?
<lotuspsychje> kk
<nacc> lotuspsychje: 6 month development cycles, like always
<nacc> lotuspsychje: also codenames are sort of irrelevant, only the numerical ones are guaranteed to sort and should really be used in anything important :)
<lotuspsychje> right
<brunch875> hello peeps
<lotuspsychje> nacc: so before october nothing will happen in #ubuntu+1 ?
<nacc> lotuspsychje: uh, no
<nacc> lotuspsychje: before october, it will be for 17.10
<lotuspsychje> nor in #ubuntu-release?
<nacc> lotuspsychje: do you forget there is 2 releases a year?
<lotuspsychje> indeed
<nacc> lotuspsychje: ok :)
<lotuspsychje> those non-lts alway confuse me
<nacc> well, 17.04 is not an lts either
<nacc> nor is 16.10
<lotuspsychje> yeah that i know
<lotuspsychje> why didnt they plan gnome for 17.10 then?
<nicomachus> nacc: but everyone wants to know what happens after ZZ!
<lotuspsychje> acrobatic aligator lol
<brunch875> that's the best one I've heard so far
<lotuspsychje> brunch875: showed up on an article
<lotuspsychje> a presume that is...
<nacc> nicomachus: right, which is 17.10
<nacc> lotuspsychje was asking about 18.04
<nacc> lotuspsychje: i don't think it's been said that they won't
<nacc> lotuspsychje: just that by 18.04 it will be done
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/04/ubuntu-17-10-acrobatic-aardvark
<lotuspsychje> aardvark it was
<brunch875> acrobatic aligator is much better
<nacc> how about
<nacc> aaaaaah monsters
<lotuspsychje> lol
<nacc> anyone remember that show?
<nicomachus> aaaaaah REAL monsters!
<nicomachus> we have a graffiti mural here in town of one of them
<nacc> yeah, i figured i couldn't make the codename 3 words :)
<nacc> and "aaaaah real" doesn't have the same ring
<nicomachus> https://www.google.com/maps/@39.09171,-94.5821218,3a,75y,340.99h,85.29t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sF1Siu9BP17LLRMhxmf0GOQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
<nicomachus> at least it looks like one of those monsters
<lotuspsychje> http://phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Sam-Redux-On-Unity-Compiz
<nacc> ha it totally does nicomachus
<nicomachus> it looks a bit different now, but not much
<lotuspsychje> hi Oscboll
<lotuspsychje> https://tutorials.ubuntu.com/tutorial/snap-a-website#0
<arunpyasi> Is Ubuntu really killing UNITY ?
<lotuspsychje> arunpyasi: there are plans for 18.04 to have gnome as default
<arunpyasi> lotuspsychje, so, its not confirmed ?
<nacc> arunpyasi: unity won't be the default
<arunpyasi> lotuspsychje, is UBUNTU/Canonical gonna maintain Unity further ?
<lotuspsychje> arunpyasi: yes its confirmed unity and ubuntu phones will stop
<nacc> unity8 already has a public website
<DArqueBishop> "Killed" is a drastic word for it.
<arunpyasi> nacc, why was that deason made ?
<nacc> arunpyasi: because convergence was for phone and phone is gone
<arunpyasi> nacc, hmm.. with Phone Unity also gone ?
<nacc> arunpyasi: unity is not gone
<nacc> arunpyasi: please read what we have said
<lotuspsychje> arunpyasi: ubports will continue the phone project
<arunpyasi> nacc, ok..
<nacc> arunpyasi: unity is a community project
<nacc> arunpyasi: canonical will stop pushing unity as the future (unity8) and mir
<nacc> arunpyasi: but that doesn't mean they are dead
<arunpyasi> nacc, ohh ok
<arunpyasi> nacc, so, Unity will still be maintained but not official used in Ubuntu by default ?
<arunpyasi> Unity was never owned by Canonical ?
<lotuspsychje> !unity | arunpyasi
<ubot5> arunpyasi: Unity is the default UI since Ubuntu 11.04.  Unity is a shell for GNOME. see http://unity.ubuntu.com. For a GNOME 2-like experience, see !notunity
<nacc> arunpyasi: i'm not sure what you mean by 'owned' by canonical?
<nacc> arunpyasi: and not sure what you mean by 'not official'
<acheron-a> well thats the whole reason Cinnamon got so popular was Gnome
<acheron-a> but its nice to have choices
<lotuspsychje> acheron-a: yeah flavors make it all interesting
<nicomachus> acheron-a: this is linux. You always have a choice. Want to keep using Unity? go ahead. There's already like 50 forks competing for it.
<acheron-a> i'm running Cinnamon 3.2.8 on Ubuntu
<nicomachus> gross
<lotuspsychje> acheron-a: does that run smooth?
<tgm4883> nacc: I installed ubuntu gnome 17.04 last night and the touchscreen stuff works pretty well. That on screen keyboard though is kinda bad
<acheron-a> yes
 * nicomachus hates cinnamon :/
<nacc> tgm4883: yeah, i have no idea how the OSK is supposed to work :(
<nacc> tgm4883: it basically feels like it doesn't
<acheron-a> i do not care for Mint's implementation of it
<nacc> tgm4883: and with u-g, it seems really sensitve to context when it shows up
<nacc> acheron-a: so cinnamon from upstream?
<tgm4883> nacc: it works fine for me except when I accidently touch a keyboard key it disappears, and also it's pretty difficult to thumb type with it
<tgm4883> I wonder if there's different designs for it
<nacc> tgm4883: i did a quick apt search the other day and there are a bunch of packages taht provide it
<nacc> but i don't know how you configure which to use
<tgm4883> nacc: I'll poke around and see what I can find
<nacc> tgm4883: thanks, i'll be curious what you are able to achieve!
<acheron-a> http://www.tecmint.com/install-cinnamon-desktop-in-ubuntu-fedora-workstations/
<acheron-a> thats how i did it
<lotuspsychje> lets c
<acheron-a> so far, so good, i am testing it on 2 computers, AMD and Intel
<lotuspsychje> acheron-a: looks rather nice, but ill stick to non-ppa stuff
<acheron-a> i understand, thats the only PPA i have
<lotuspsychje> no sweat, everyone does what he likes :p
<acheron-a> maybe in the future ubuntu will officially have it in their reps
<lotuspsychje> alot will happen next, thats for sure
<acheron-a> they have 2.8 but it does not run well
<acheron-a> cinnamon-core/xenial,xenial 2.8.0
<acheron-a> cinnamon-desktop-environment/xenial,xenial 2.8.0
<acheron-a> thats available without a PPA
<ducasse> 3.2 in zesty
<lotuspsychje> nice
<acheron-a> apt list cinn*
<nacc> looks to be 2.8.6-1ubuntu1 in xenial
<baizon> omg
<baizon> https://plus.google.com/+MarkShuttleworthCanonical/posts/7LYubpaHUHH
<nacc> baizon:  why is that omg?
<daftykins> you're a bit late to that party :>
<baizon> im sorry
<baizon> was at work
<baizon> omg is for -> no unity, just gnome :(
<baizon> i hate gnome
<nacc> yeah that's a few days old
<nacc> well, aiui, unity7 was gnome
<nacc> so you mean unity8, which was never released
<daftykins> yep just skinned
<acheron-a> yeah
<acheron-a> it was a shocker for sure, thought first it was an april fools joke
<daftykins> not since it was days into the month
<acheron-a> always have to pick we me, dont you dafty?
<daftykins> what?
<daftykins> i'm not picking on you, i think you're being a bit sensitive.
<acheron-a> lol .. talk about being sensitive
<acheron-a> you're the one that went all the pieces when i mentioned mint support
<acheron-a> are you some kind of fairy?
<acheron-a> * ignore *
<daftykins> what's your problem today, trouble at home?
<daftykins> 3+ people saw you as being ridiculous the other day :) you're being very transparent having a moan at me :)
<tgm4883> Can't we all just get along
<daftykins> well everyone, i best change distro if a Fairy isn't welcome :(
<acheron-a> i;m fine .. that guy was on me ever since i came in this chat room
<daftykins> total rubbish
<nicomachus> +1
<acheron-a> first day he made an issue with me because i commented about some mint issues and he made like i was referring to him personally
<ducasse> log or it didn't happen.
<nicomachus> just drop it
<acheron-a> so i will just leave him on ignore
<tgm4883> acheron-a: which day was this?
<acheron-a> a couple of weeks ago, the first day i joined in here
<nicomachus> !logs
<ubot5> Official channel logs can be found at https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ . LoCo channels are now logged there too. Meetingology logs at https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/
<tgm4883> nicomachus: searching that site sucks though
<acheron-a> No one here really knows anything about me, so let me give some background â¦ I have worked on computers since the days of CP/M and S-100 Buss.  At my last job at Hewlett Packard Enterprise, one the many things I did was software load and documentation for HP-UX on the HP-9000 Superdome platform.  So I think I know my way around the world of computing.  I donât need any descending behavior from some nab
<acheron-a> obs in a chat room.
<nacc> lol
<nacc> acheron-a: i know basically nothing about anyone in this room
<nacc> acheron-a: and your history doesn't matter
<daftykins> unfortunately my conversations challenging distribution choice are often taken too personally by some more sensitive users.
<nicomachus> well, now that we know all that we can treat you with the respect you deserve!
<nicomachus> daftykins: windows = winblows
<daftykins> nicomachus: how dare you insult my good name, i'll have you know i have been working with computers since the abacus!
<nicomachus> sudo apt install baseball
<acheron-a> does anyone still remember that demo of USB that Bill Gates was giving and the system blue screened on him ... LOL
<tgm4883> acheron-a: Not saying this is you, but more often than not when I see people reference that sort of history it tends to mean they are trying to use it as an excuse as to why they are being difficult and/or ignoring instructions (mostly see this in the support channel). Anyone that's been around computers that long should know that technology changes fast
<tgm4883> enough that it's irrelevant to the discussion.
<acheron-a> oh, wow, thanks tgm4883 , so much for getting along
<tgm4883> acheron-a: ...
<nacc> acheron-a: "Not saying this is you..."
<nacc> acheron-a: tgm4883 prefaced it with that
<daftykins> too sensitive for IRC.
<nicomachus> sudo apt install baseball-on-tv
<nacc> nicomachus: :)
<nacc> nicomachus: is it working
<nicomachus> no
<nacc> darn
<nicomachus> package not found. would you like to install NASCAR-practice instead?
<nacc> lol
<nacc> nooooo (not a fan of nascar myself)
<nicomachus> me neither. but that's what is on FoxSportsGO
<nacc> sad
<nicomachus> it's friday... there aren't usually many day baseball games on Fridays
<nacc> was able to go to the blazers game last night, was the best one i've been to in a while
<nicomachus> they do friday night so that more people will show up at the ballpark
<nacc> yep
<nacc> (blazers being trailblazers being nba, for context)
<nicomachus> right. :D
 * nicomachus is not a basketball fan
<nacc> ah :(
<nicomachus> sorry
<nacc> nicomachus: baseball mostly?
<nicomachus> yep
<daftykins> MLB ftw
<nicomachus> a bit of hockey. but all baseball
<nicomachus> ok, off to lunch and get some things notarized.
<acheron-a> take care
<daftykins> aww tonights isa really late one for me
<daftykins> *is a
<daftykins> (Royals)
<acheron-a> hello glebihan
<tgm4883> well that was a fun read
<Bashing-om> tgm4883: ^ Fun read for me also ?
<tgm4883> Bashing-om: nah, I just grepped IRC logs looking for daftykins cruelty
<daftykins> tgm4883: was i bad Fairy after all?
<tgm4883> I actually didn't find any, which was surprising ;)
<daftykins> d'aww
<daftykins> well i appreciate your honesty
<tgm4883> I'm checking Feb though now, so maybe I'll see some
<daftykins> this isn't the first time someone has taken things the wrong way though :/
<daftykins> what's special about me and February? :)
<tgm4883> daftykins: nothing. I just checked April and March
<tgm4883> working backwards
<tgm4883> ubottu doesn't log joins/parts so I've got to read convos
<tgm4883> the only thing I've found was a misunderstanding on Mint, which was cleared up within a few minutes
<tgm4883> Oh the things I do when Jira's down and I'm waiting for things to compress
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> i do bash Mint a lot, 'cause there's no good reason for it to exist :)
<nicomachus> that's true tho
<tgm4883> nothing in feb
<tgm4883> note I'm specifically looking for interaction with a particular user, not because I have some weird thing for daftykins  :)
<daftykins> tbh we all know how i earnt a certain ban, but this time it's definitely the user imagining it
<nicomachus> BAN DAFTYKINS
<nicomachus> FROM ALLLLL THE NETWORKS
<daftykins> :>
<Guest123> What's going to happen to Ubuntu Touch?
<baizon> its dead
<Guest123> It looks really cool.
<Guest123> Linux on your phone.
<daftykins> that's not a new thing
<DArqueBishop> Technically, if you have Android, you already have Linux on your phone.
<tgm4883> I'm not sure why people want to use their phone's as a desktop. Any time it's tried to use a Pi as a desktop the experience was pretty bad
<tgm4883> Now a tablet that can double as a laptop/desktop, that's something I can get behind (x86 tablet's that is)
<daftykins> tgm4883: yeah i think it's one of those gimmicky things that sounds fun but in practice would be pretty terrible
<nicomachus> I can SSH into a real computer from my phone. that's enough.
<tgm4883> nicomachus: in a pinch it will work. But to do regular work from it would be a pain I think
<tgm4883> I'm speaking to the "I want to use my phone as a desktop replacement"
<nicomachus> that's just a bad idea.
<nicomachus> it's a phone.
<tgm4883> well yea, I agree
<tgm4883> nacc: the answer is to install gnome-shell-extension-onboard, enable it in tweak, reboot (probably just logout and in)
<tgm4883> nacc: it's got the ability to customize your layout, so I'm figuring that part out now
<nacc> tgm4883: ah good thanks!
<stevessss> so.. ubuntus move to gnome will reduce the linux schism
<stevessss> to just kde vs gnome
<nacc> stevessss: that's certainly an opinion to have
<stevessss> making kde and gtk kits for mobile /android/ios might be a winning solution
<stevessss> 1 app runs on devices, windows, linux, osx, ios, android etc
<stevessss> and runs natively
<nacc> uh
<stevessss> the end-user doesnt want to reduce their desktop to looklike a phone
<nacc> i don't think the ui is the reason apps don't run eveyrwhere
<stevessss> no.. but there is a port of qt to almost every platform
<nacc> if you mean it would look the same everywhere, then sure, that's something
<nacc> but you won't magically see the same app on windows an dlinux
<stevessss> the write package manager could make an easy-button for mostely gtk apps to run everywhere
<stevessss> no.. you have to compile for each platform
<stevessss> but automation can make that easier to the dev
<nacc> which makes it immediately not the same app
<nacc> in any case, yes, what you are saying is possible
<stevessss> apache-cordova does that
<acheron-a> well the market for phone OS is already occupied ;)
<stevessss> you add platforms and it has different build commands for each platform to embed a browser for each target
<stevessss> yeah
<stevessss> you cant sell phone-os to end users
<acheron-a> you'd have to have something awfully compelling to break in
<stevessss> if linux makes app development easier to go to more platforms, maybe that is an option
<tgm4883> Can we stop trying to put desktop apps on phones?
<nacc> or that --^
<nacc> then again, i hate smartphones on some level to begin with
<stevessss> gtk+opengl or qt+opengl can run games at native speed on any platform
<acheron-a> phones are throw away devices and status symbols for others and then the middle of the market
<tgm4883> "games at native speed"
<acheron-a> and the middle just doesn't care how they browse the web
<stevessss> or vr, or augmented reality
 * tgm4883 gets ready to run xcom 2 on his nexus 6P
<stevessss> I can see gtk becomming an api or widget kit on most devices without replacing the device os
<stevessss> and support open-source on smartphones
<OerHeks> vr is as boring as 3d tv
<tgm4883> OerHeks: have you used VR?
<tgm4883> I think it's interesting, but the costs need to come way down
<stevessss> phones should use phone ui...for small screens..and desktops should use desktop ui for big screens
<daftykins> and the resolution needs to go up :>
<OerHeks> i cannot watch such things longer than 1 hour or so
<stevessss> they arent and shouldn't be the same
 * tgm4883 is waiting for the HTC Vive 3
<acheron-a> stevessss, exactly but some decision makers still have yet learn or come to that conclusion
<tgm4883> stevessss: that's precisely what Unity 8 was trying to accomplish
<tgm4883> IIRC, I think it's a design spec of android
<acheron-a> even MS couldn't get it to work but i always that maybe an OS that has multiple personalities might work, one that would have a common core and multiple GUIs depending on what device it was on
<acheron-a> instead of one size fits all, it would sense what device it was on and deploy accordingly or allow the user to override
<tgm4883> acheron-a: it's up to the app developer to make it work, not the OS creator
<tgm4883> acheron-a: something about leading horses to water and making them drink
<tgm4883> acheron-a: also, that second thing you said is precisely what Windows 10 does (and was a goal of Unity 8)
<Guest123> Is there a channel to make suggestions for Ubuntu?
<OerHeks> launchpad would be the proper way, i guess
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-04-08
<Guest123> It's hard to tell which team channel I should go to.
<Guest123> Does the installer team have their own channel?
<OerHeks> i just read mr dustin blog with suggestions http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2017/04/thank-you-note-to-hackernews.html
<OerHeks> maybe it is #ubuntu-installer https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList/Team
<OerHeks> there is no mailing list  https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-installer
<Bashing-om> to slow to hold my attention - g nite o/
<lordievader> Good morning.
<ducasse> morning all
<ducasse> \o lordievader
<lordievader> Hey ducasse
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<ducasse> good thanks, how about you?
<lordievader> Doing good, having tea :D
<ducasse> same here, soon need another cup :)
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<BluesKaj> Hi pauljw
<pauljw> hey BluesKaj :)
<BluesKaj> what's happening today ?
<pauljw> nothing here yet, BluesKaj.  sun is shining, grass is growing... it was 32F about an hour ago.
<pauljw> don't know if you got that, my connection was hosed and i didn't realize it... :(
<BluesKaj> yeah i swa your disconnec there, but I knew you'd be back :-0
<BluesKaj> oops scuse all the typos  :-)
<pauljw> :)
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<ducasse> \o lotuspsychje
<ducasse> how was movie night?
<lotuspsychje> great ducasse how are you
<ducasse> ok, thanks. quiet saturday here.
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: both nice movies
<lotuspsychje> hey baizon
<lotuspsychje> http://www.thelinuxrain.com/articles/heres-how-gnome-shell-can-look-like-ubuntu-unity
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> alot of unity lovers out there
<baizon> hmm, but i think ill switch from unity to kde
<baizon> and try to make it look like unity
<baizon> i dislike gnome very very much
<lotuspsychje> http://phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Shuttleworth-More-G-Comments
<lotuspsychje> gnome with unity ideas lol
<lotuspsychje> snaps will continue
<baizon> but unity 8 wont :(
<lotuspsychje> yeah too bad, would have been nice to have the choice
<lotuspsychje> baizon: lets hope the ubports guys find a big breakthrough
<lotuspsychje> someone remember the variables trigger?
<baizon> that will take a long time
<baizon> they dont have the resources i think
<lotuspsychje> baizon: im not sure, cause mariogrip is on that project, he made a big deal on several phones
<lotuspsychje> baizon: but indeed, i understand its not the same as its supported by ubuntu by default..
<lotuspsychje> wb Menzador
<Menzador> yo
<lotuspsychje> hey brunch875
<immu_ubuntu> hi
<BenderRodriguez> immu_ubuntu: what is your thoughts on Shuttleworth's decisionto kill Unity
<immu_ubuntu> i respect his decision
<BenderRodriguez> ...
 * BenderRodriguez takes immu_ubuntu off his cool people
<BenderRodriguez> list
<immu_ubuntu> but at the same time i am deeply saddened with the decision also
<BluesKaj> I suspect we  kde/plasma users don't care one way or the other, at least I don't :-)
<immu_ubuntu> Unity8 was so close to completion but without support of others its hard to justify the cost that was draining the companies profitablity
<immu_ubuntu> can someone confirm if google services are down or not
<immu_ubuntu> hey BluesKaj whats up
<Menzador> BluesKaj: Lol, that's OK. I've been a GNOME advocate ever since I got my hands on the latest version of it :)
<BenderRodriguez> Really
<BluesKaj> afaik a lot of ubuntu users thought shuttleworth was taking Canonical in the wrong direction anyway
<BenderRodriguez> GNOME 3 was an attempt at joining the mobile/touchpad bandwagon
<Menzador> Which is interesting.
<BenderRodriguez> with it's huge UI buttons
<lotuspsychje> thats true BluesKaj
<ducasse> immu_ubuntu: http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/
<BenderRodriguez> but it failed
<Menzador> BenderRodriguez: Actually no it didn't. GNOME wasn't actually ever trying to cater to the mobile market. I can't think of a single touch device that shipped with GNOME.
<Menzador> But yes, I think Adwaita should be toned down a bit
<immu_ubuntu> i cant sign into google
<Menzador> Oh, that *is* something I need to do, lol
<ducasse> immu_ubuntu: offtopic here
<immu_ubuntu> ducasse:  did i say something on topic
<BluesKaj> hi immu_ubuntu  , just transferring some files to friends hdd , and what's up with you?
<immu_ubuntu> BluesKaj:  after distro hopping i am back with ubuntu
<BluesKaj> good choice immu_ubuntu , i've been playing around with debian stretch
<BenderRodriguez> Menzador: What? The entire UI of Gnome 3 was designed around touch based devices
<immu_ubuntu> BluesKaj: how is it?
<BenderRodriguez> it even has purpose built touch gesture support documented: https://help.gnome.org/misc/release-notes/3.14/touchscreen-gestures.html.en
<BenderRodriguez> So yes, it was designed for touch
<BenderRodriguez> Keep in mind this was around a time when EVERYONE thought Mobile will be everything and desktop will be dead within a few years
<BenderRodriguez> That hasn't happened and the result is a disjoined project that has lots its way
<BenderRodriguez> it's tragic, actually
<BenderRodriguez> disjointed*
<BluesKaj> immu_ubuntu:  so far so good, I like it ...it's not prepackaged as much as kubuntu
<immu_ubuntu> you are always into kde BluesKaj :
<BluesKaj> immu_ubuntu:  for about 12 yrs now
<immu_ubuntu> which is a premier KDE distro but with .deb compatiblity
<immu_ubuntu> BluesKaj:  which is a premier KDE distro but with .deb compatiblity
<Menzador> BenderRodriguez: Oh look, GNOME released touch-screen gestures. SEVEN releases after the initial 3.0 release.
<BluesKaj> kubuntuis probly first thenothers like netrunner and mint
<immu_ubuntu> i just love the hud of ubuntu BluesKaj
<immu_ubuntu> BluesKaj:  i cant live without it
 * BluesKaj nods
<immu_ubuntu> which kde are u using now? BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> kde/plasma 5.8.6
<Menzador> BluesKaj: Do you use the Kubuntu Backports PPA?
<BluesKaj> on debian stretch, think plasma 5.9 on kubuntu zesty
<immu_ubuntu> manjaro has very good KDE release
<Menzador> Oh, you're using DEE-bee-in :)
<BluesKaj> Menzador:  i use ppas when asked to test the packages they contain , then i remove them immediately
<Menzador> Ah
<immu_ubuntu> brb BluesKaj
<immu_ubuntu> BluesKaj: back i am running 17.04, and gconf is not available
<immu_ubuntu> BluesKaj: you are running debian but you hangout here ????
<lotuspsychje> immu_ubuntu: anyone is free to chat here
<immu_ubuntu> lotuspsychje: true, but just curious as maybe BluesKaj can best advise?
<BluesKaj> immu_ubuntu:  I also run kubuntu zesty , try gconf2
<immu_ubuntu> how many distros do you run? are they on VM or side by side BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> I use partitions, VMs aren't my style , too buggy
<BluesKaj> lots of users like VMs, but I haven't had much luck with them
<immu_ubuntu> The venerable gconf is no longer installed by default having been long superseded by gsettings.  BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> ok
<immu_ubuntu> i need to file this has a bug issue as google chrome is not available in the distro
<immu_ubuntu> i had installed Ubuntu mate and then i install over it Ubuntu 17.04 so all my settings i believe where picked up by Ubuntu
<BluesKaj> the chrome deb is available at their site
<immu_ubuntu> i picked it up from their only
<immu_ubuntu> there only
<BluesKaj> the chrome repos was probly removed from sources.list.d when you installed 17.04
<immu_ubuntu> not its gconf being removed from Ubuntu 17.04
<immu> BluesKaj, can you reach youtube site
<daftykins> asking someone who might be on the other side of the world whether they can reach a given website is not a very sensible query
<ducasse> immu: i gave you a site that checks that earlier
<immu> thats not working
<daftykins> sounds like misconfigured DNS, but this is not a support channel
<immu> www.youtube.comâs server DNS address could not be found.
<immu> DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN
<daftykins> please take your query to #ubuntu
<BluesKaj>  UAE probly blocks youtube
<daftykins> no doubt
<immu> nope i can watch it on my mobile BluesKaj
<immu_> BluesKaj, back
<daftykins> still not a support channel, please go to #ubuntu
<immu_> daftykins, thanks
<immu_> wht is your prefered IRC software
<daftykins> irssi
<immu_> gui based?
<daftykins> nope
<daftykins> hexchat is an acceptable GUI one
<ducasse> weechat here, which is pretty much the same thing as irssi
<immu_> all available in ubuntu software or have to to use synaptic
<daftykins> !info irssi
<ubot5> irssi (source: irssi): terminal based IRC client. In component main, is optional. Version 0.8.19-1ubuntu1.3 (xenial), package size 676 kB, installed size 2468 kB
<daftykins> !info hexchat
<ubot5> hexchat (source: hexchat): IRC client for X based on X-Chat 2. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.10.2-1ubuntu3 (xenial), package size 330 kB, installed size 932 kB
<daftykins> the former.
<ducasse> everything in synaptic is available in ubuntu software, same sources.
<daftykins> ah my bad yeah, misread
 * OerHeks deletes software-center
<immu_> many IRC software are snap based
<daftykins> no reason for you to be using anything snap
<immu_> daftykins, i installed two IRC software both are packaged in snap
<daftykins> ok, but there's not really any benefit or disadvantage to that that i can think of
<immu_> daftykins, i can use a webbased IRC like kiwiIRC which i like but having a software is nice
<daftykins> yeah web based is usually rubbish
<ducasse> the confinement thing might make certain features not work right
<daftykins> plus when you come in a support channel on one, it doesn't look too great
<OerHeks> we always look great, no ?
<daftykins> ;D
<immu_> BluesKaj, welcome back
<BluesKaj> thanks, just here for few mins , DLing the latest Kubuntu Zesty test image, needed the link from the devs
<immu_> i am going to try KDE Manjaro BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> have fun immu_
<immu_> BluesKaj, yeah
<immu_> BluesKaj, i will have a lot of KDE query will bug you yeah later
<BluesKaj> I'll be leaving soon , other stuff to do today
<ducasse> have fun BluesKaj - ttyl
<BluesKaj> right
<immu_> BluesKaj, same here have fun
<BluesKaj> ok later gents ...take care
<Bashing-om> Aggravation factor : Need to prune the lawn; messed with the lawn mower for 2 days - starts will not run ! Aggravated !
<Bashing-om> But .. I am Here .. all is good :)
<OerHeks> :-)
<daftykins> Bashing-om: that sounds like a frustrating machine alright
<Bashing-om> In all Honesty - what I get for not taking care of my equipment . I did not put it up in the dry last fall :( A tarp just is not good enough !
<daftykins> ah har
<daftykins> well, hindsight and all that :)
<Bashing-om> Uh HUh . Now, if I could I would kick my own behind :D
<daftykins> take up yoga for that one i think ;D
<Bashing-om> Puts me in mind : if legs bent the other way .. what shape would a chair be ?
<OerHeks> eat grass, be smart
<daftykins> hehe i love that question, mmm i suspect carpenters would get a challenge
<Bashing-om> OerHeks: Well, that is what it is made for .. eat more grass !
<daftykins> then again a client had one of these for many years - https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/92/84/be/9284be9c0ded13c6b57aed1c06bc0875.jpg
<Bashing-om> daftykins: I have toyed with the chair shape - given the cirumstances - for several years . No good solution to this time  .
<OerHeks> those chairs are good for your balance, still prefer a chair with a back-support
<daftykins> yeah, kinda forces your posture
<Bashing-om> I just glad I have a chair - and a place to put it :) - and a cushion for the back .
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> yep simple things
<daftykins> i felt like i'd succeeded once i had a place to put the desk, PC, chair, mug of hot beverage and slice of cake
<Bashing-om> And cake too ! Wow !
<daftykins> ooh yes, can't be without cake
<OerHeks> bacon & eggs
<daftykins> mm
<Bashing-om> black forest ham saammmich is doing well right now :P
<OerHeks> brie paris & chorizo spain
<daftykins> time for me to nip to the kitchen and put some pasta on
<daftykins> bbs
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-04-09
<manjaro-web|5468> is bluez here?
<ducasse> morning
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Ready for the shift change :)
<ducasse> hiya Bashing-om - how are things in your little corner of the world? :)
<immu_manjo_kde> ducasse: hey whats up
<ducasse> hi :)
<ducasse> Bashing-om: 28 zesty updates since last night, things are moving rapidly now as we get closer to release
<immu_manjo_kde> if gcc and gcc-multilib are in conflict which one i should choose
<Bashing-om> ducasse: trials, troubles and trubulations - all small in comparison . Gots to do yard growth prunning and the mower will not run :( // Will catch up on zesty in the AM .
<ducasse> Bashing-om: sorry about your mower :( i'm thinking of doing some planting around my porch this spring, it looks so naked now.
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Time and money heals many things :) We want to plant roses along the front fence - we see what works out .
<ducasse> Bashing-om: are you going to attack the mower with a screwdriver or get it serviced?
<Bashing-om> Backing out and going down . g nite \o
<immu_manjo_kde> .
<BluesKaj> 'Morning folks
<ducasse> hi BluesKaj
<ducasse> everything good?
<BluesKaj> Hi ducasse, yes, just fine, and you?
<ducasse> good thanks :) got a bit on my plate today, but that's just a good thing.
<BluesKaj> heh, yeah ..gonna be a nice day here , so some yard work is on the 'to do' list
<ducasse> BluesKaj: i'm planning to replace the root disk in my file server, which is a major operation
<BluesKaj> NAS?
<ducasse> no, a self-built machine with a ton of disks, ubuntu+zfs
<ducasse> _thinking_ about migrating it to freenas, but...
<BluesKaj> clone / or dd it?
<ducasse> BluesKaj: neither, unfortunately. a full fresh install and all it entails, because reasons. :)
<BluesKaj> I don't have a large media server since I don't save movies , only music and pics, so it's merely an outboard sata hdd, no  server OS needed
<ducasse> i have decades worth of stuff, and i'm a serious packrat. also most is on zfs mirrors, so 2x number of necessary disks.
<ducasse> seems i'll be getting some tax money back in june, so i'm considering a synology or qnap, but the problem is i really need more than 4 disks and that's not cheap.
<ducasse> also it feels a bit silly to have an enterprise nas in an apartment :)
<BluesKaj> I just save photos and music, we don't have much family video, and movies are usually rented, once watched, then usually forgotten except for the Christmas classics ...so no need for anything larger than 1TB hdd for media and backup
<ducasse> i do have a bit of media as well, i have an extensive cd collection ripped to both flac and mp3, ripped dvds etc.
<BluesKaj> ducasse:  yes, I've edited my music collection down to stuff I really like, and 90% of that is in wav format on the hdd, the rest is either on vinyl or cd.
<immu_manjo_kde> BluesKaj: hey whats up?
<BluesKaj> hey immu_manjo_kde
<ducasse> BluesKaj: i want everything (and i do mean everything) available as flac through mpd, i haven't found a better way to play it all. i don't want spotify etc.
<BluesKaj> flac is ok, but on the fly decompression is suspect IMO , it'a another layer of audio processing, sort of like pulseaudio
<BluesKaj> but I'm probly somewhat of a purist
<immu_manjo_kde> BluesKaj: i am Manjaro KDE
<BluesKaj> no, you could have fooled me, immu_manjo_kde :-)
<ducasse> BluesKaj: the overhead is negligible :)
<immu_manjo_kde> BluesKaj: how come?
<BluesKaj> well BBL , gotta test the latest kubuntu zesty
<ducasse> immu_manjo_kde: your nick, probably?
<immu_manjo_kde> bluesKaj ducasse, he inspired me to go for KDE.
<ducasse> why manjaro, though?
<immu_manjo_kde> ducasse: i had installed it before and liked it, but anyways ended up in Ubuntu
<immu_manjo_kde> ducasse: you? which distro
<ducasse> arch and ubuntu, depending on what i use the machine for
<immu_manjo_kde> ducasse: did u see blues around? has he? come back
<immu_manjo_kde> brb
<immu_manjo_kde> what is the state of Ubuntu? now when its so close to release
<immu_manjo_kde> 17.04 that is
<BluesKaj> Kubuntu 17.04 latest image runs just fine, but of course that depneds on your hadware and associated drivers
<BluesKaj> immu_manjo_kde: ^
<immu_manjo_kde> i might again go back to Ubuntu , i am so attached to it BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> DJones:  I'm a kde/plsama user so a lot of the discussion about unity gnome etc doesn't interest me much
<BluesKaj> plasma
<immu_manjo_kde> BluesKaj: who is the ubuntu guy here
<ducasse> immu_manjo_kde: we're all ubuntu guys :)
<immu_manjo_kde> true ducasse BluesKaj
<immu_manjo_kde> brb going for resintall see u today or tomm
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<ducasse> evening/morning/whatever pauljw :)
<pauljw> hey ducasse, 2:20pm here.  :)
<ducasse> 20:21, will soon be getting ready for sleepytime :)
<pauljw> ah.
<Bashing-om> Another case : " what part of NO do you not understand " ?
<daftykins> hehe, persistent customer? :)
<Bashing-om> daftykins: wubi ... need I say more ? Just will not accept that it is dead .
<daftykins> oh dear!
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-04-02
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<EriC^^> morning all
<daftykins> hey hey \o
<daftykins> how're things EriC^^?
<EriC^^> hey daftykins
<EriC^^> o/ good you?
<daftykins> yep not bad at all :) been a wet holiday weekend though
<daftykins> but that's ok, i had nowhere to go
<EriC^^> it's been pretty rough here too, lots of wind and rain
<EriC^^> how's your apartment? have you finished the renovation and stuff?
<daftykins> 'tis a house :D yeah it's pretty normal now, still a few windows to paint - i'm waiting for the good weather so i can leave them swung open to dry :D
<EriC^^> aha cool :D
<daftykins> what's pretty great is my telco redid my entire phone line recently, so i have a really stable line now
<daftykins> 7MB/sec down \o/
<EriC^^> nice!
<EriC^^> i wanna get a over the electricity lan setup, forgot the name but lotuspsychje told me about it
<daftykins> powerline / homeplug adapters, mmm
<daftykins> i have a basic pair of those spare, only did 100Mb though
<EriC^^> aha
<EriC^^> i'd go for them, i'm really just wanting a more stable wifi
<EriC^^> the routers kind of suck, even when someone goes to the bathroom sometimes it just loses connection xD
<daftykins> hahaha
<EriC^^> *shrug*
<EriC^^> brb coffee :D
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
<lotuspsychje> its rainy here aswell
<lotuspsychje> but thu & fri sunny 20 degrees
<daftykins> biab host update
<EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
<Bashing-om> I leave it in yall's care . G nite all - \o
<ducasse> good morning, everyone
<EriC^^> good morning ducasse
<EriC^^> how are you?
<daftykins> heya \o
<ducasse> good thanks, how abput you?
<ducasse> *about
<ducasse> hi daftykins - all well?
<daftykins> yep! not bad at all, apart from the hours i keep :)
<EriC^^> wb daftykins
<EriC^^> good thanks ducasse
<daftykins> thanks ^_^ pulled the fans in my server whilst it was sat in the BIOS, to see if maybe some are getting old and need replacing
<daftykins> would love if that machine were quieter
<EriC^^> maybe if sound cancellation by superimposing waves is easy to setup you could give it a shot?
<EriC^^> i remember reading about cars exhaust getting a superimposed wave that cancel eachother out, and it goes almost silent
<EriC^^> hmm https://irjet.net/archives/V3/i2/IRJET-V3I288.pdf
<daftykins> mmm i always read talk of attack helicopters travelling in pairs
<EriC^^> i wonder if one could do that as a prank in a room, like someone is talking and half the words go missing
<EriC^^> haha
<ducasse> daftykins: you leaving for london tomorrow? when will you be back?
<daftykins> just a stint 'til Friday
<ducasse> who's watching the little lady?
<daftykins> the olds will be on duty :>
<daftykins> goodness me, even computer cases are starting to claim 'VR Ready' :|
<ducasse> what? that doesn't make much sense...
<daftykins> indeedy
<ducasse> did you see facebook had been caught making their android app scrape phone and text data without permission?
<EriC^^> yikes
<daftykins> yeah, think i saw a claim that 'oh our app collected it but didn't do anything with it, it's how the android app data model works'
<daftykins> never let that junk near my phones :>
<daftykins> apparently just having it installed can reduce your battery by 25%+
<ducasse> the app came installed on my new(ish) phone, unfortunately, guess i need to root it
<daftykins> tough call
<EriC^^> has anyone tried fortnite? been meaning to download it
<firezep> EriC^^, I like it alot
<firezep> what do you guys think about -> iRedMail ?
<EriC^^> firezep: cool, is it free to play now?
<firezep> yep 100% free to play
<firezep> :D
<EriC^^> nice!
<EriC^^> are you playing on pc or ps4 etc?
<firezep> my record is 22 kill game
<firezep> pc mastah race :P
<firezep> 240hz :D
<EriC^^> i want to try it on pc but i've a 2.2ghz i7 4 core and amd radeon
<firezep> awww :(
<EriC^^> guess i'll have to get it for ps4
<firezep> well it might still run at 60fps
<EriC^^> you recon it'll be good to play?
<firezep> what i7 is that? mobile? or like 2nd gen?
<firezep> what kinda of gpu is that?>
<EriC^^> it's 3234 or something
<EriC^^> 3rd gen, it's an hp laptop
<firezep> it should be more than enough.. tho that gpu is gonna sweat :P
<firezep> make sure you set everything low and play at 720p
<firezep> you should be fine
<firezep> Client: HexChat 2.14.1 â¢ OS: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional (x64) â¢ CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-7820X CPU @ 3.60GHz (3.60GHz) â¢ Memory: 31.7 GiB Total (20.2 GiB Free) â¢ Storage: 6.4 TiB / 12.3 TiB (5.9 TiB Free) â¢ VGA: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti â¢ Uptime: 2d 4h 48m 26s
<EriC^^> i also have a i7 6500u 2.5ghz on another laptop with amd radeon also hp laptop
<firezep> :D
<EriC^^> ok cool :D
<firezep> oh on that 6500u pretty sure it will run 1080p 60fps
<EriC^^> nice!
<firezep> its pretty much well optimized the game
<EriC^^> looks like alot of fun :D
<firezep> it sure is :D
<firezep> and if you got kids its the perfect game to introduce them to gaming imo :D
<EriC^^> nope no kids here :D
<firezep> leftyfb, what do you think https://www.linuxbabe.com/mail-server/ubuntu-16-04-iredmail-server-installation
<EriC^^> thanks, i'm gonna boot into windows and start the d/l'ing, brb
<firezep> lucky you EriC^^  :P
<firezep> sure thing go ahead :D
<firezep> \o
<EriC^^> haha :D
<daftykins> hmm anything that holds your hand to configure stops you learning how to do it properly, which means you can't debug it when things go wrong, imo
<ducasse> not a good thing, especially with email
<daftykins> personally i think life is too short to run my own :D
<firezep> so just go protonmail or something like that? :P
<daftykins> i'm not into tinfoil hat services
<firezep> daftykins, then what do you recommend honestly :P
<ducasse> there are services that will host your domain for you, as well
<firezep> so what do you guys recommend tbh
<ducasse> firezep: depends what your needs are, if all you need is an email address then use a free or paid service
<firezep> need something proper
<daftykins> that's not an answer
<firezep> like I need it for banking and to manage my business
<daftykins> right so business use -> custom domain
<daftykins> how many mailboxes?
<firezep> not more than 5 tbh
<daftykins> and access would be via what software or devices typically?
<firezep> both
<daftykins> re-read that question
<firezep> oh devices my bad
<ducasse> what *kind*, is what he's asking
<firezep> like pc's and mobile devices
<firezep> like ms and ios
<daftykins> Microsoft could mean anything, a Windows phone (lol) Windows Mail, Microsoft Office (full Outlook) or otherwise
<firezep> well windows I mean computers
<firezep> and ios I mean like phones
<daftykins> you'll note i just listed a device and then two different software programs, some mail services can be browser based too
<daftykins> it's taking a little too long to get through here, so nevermind
<firezep> well mostly webased and apple mobile devices
<firezep> well its all good, I understand you dont want to deal with this.
<firezep> just trying to get some recommendations thats all
<ducasse> we typically don't recommend specific commercial services here either, frankly
<firezep> ALLGUD GUYS
<firezep> sry caps
<ducasse> try googling 'email hosting service' or something, then look up a few of them online
<firezep> I appreciate you trying to help anyway thanks :D
<leftyfb> firezep: whats wrong with just using gmail?
<Cypher100> hi
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-04-03
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<EriC^^> morning all
<daftykins> hey hey \o
<EriC^^> hey daftykins o/
<daftykins> i'm about 7 hours out from my travels now :>
<lotuspsychje> morning EriC^^ BionicMac
<EriC^^> morning lotuspsychje
<EriC^^> daftykins: going for a vacation?
<daftykins> nah setting up my clients London apartment
<daftykins> phone company visit for the internet connection etc :)
<EriC^^> ah cool :)
<EriC^^> windows got a new update
<daftykins> o0
<EriC^^> or maybe it just did it now for me cause i dont boot it a lot
<EriC^^> it's probably that :)
<lotuspsychje> shower bbl
<Bashing-om> can stands no more --- G nite \o
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> good morning, everyone
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<lordievader> Hey BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hi lordievader
<lordievader> How are you doing BluesKaj ?
<BluesKaj> doing ok, lordievader, and you ?
<lordievader> Doing good here
<lordievader> Making the last coffee of the day
<immu> hi all
<immu> BluesKaj, ducasse
<BluesKaj> hi immu
<immu> hey BluesKaj whats up
<BluesKaj> morning coffee as usual
<lordievader> hey immu
<immu> hey lordievader
<immu> how are everyone
<lordievader> Doing good here
<immu> whats new
<lordievader> Nothing much. Thinking about moving a machine back to Kubuntu. (It is running Neon now)
<immu> hmm didn't like Neon which is based on KDE LTS
<immu>  brb rebooting
<lordievader> I think I have the development version.
<kostkon> https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/03/facebook-abusing-data-law-privacy-big-tech-surveillance
<nicomachus> whoa what why is Canonical going BACK to XOrg in 18.04??
<ducasse> because wayland isn't ready for human consumption?
<nicomachus> but they used it in 17.10...
<JanC> based on my own experience with Wayland in 17.10: I switched back to Xorg because Wayland would freeze my system every 1-3 days
<JanC> if there were a lot of others with those problems, I understand why they switched the default back  ;)
<JanC> nicomachus: I assume you can still select Wayland in GDM if you prefer it?
<ducasse> wayland will still be an option, yes, it just won't be default
<Bashing-om> Temp: 59Â°F (15Â°C) ~ Mostly Cloudy ~ Humidity: 82% ~ Wind: From the NNW at 16 MPH Gusting to 29 MPH ~ Alert: Severe Thunderstorm Warning, Severe Weather Statement, Tornado Watch, Freeze Warning ~ Observed: Tue 03, 16:55
<Bashing-om> shutting down !
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-04-04
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om>  Can stands no more G nire
<lotuspsychje> bbl
<ducasse> good morning, everyone
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> hi lordievader - how are you doing?
<lordievader> Doing good here
<lordievader> How are you?
<ducasse> i'm fine, thanks - still waking up
 * lordievader slides ducasse a mug of coffee
<ducasse> thanks :) moar caffeine!
<lordievader> ð
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<jink> Hi Kaj.
<BluesKaj> Hi jink
<lordievader> Hey BluesKaj , jink
<lordievader> How are you guys?
<jink> ^__^
<BluesKaj> lordievader, oh here, and you?
<BluesKaj> ok here :-)
<lordievader> Survived the dentist, guess I'm doing ok.
<jink> Heh.
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
<jink> Hey.  No work, today?
<lotuspsychje> jink: hi, 2 weeks off
<jink> Good for you.
<lotuspsychje> it sure it :p
<jink> ^__^
<BluesKaj> hey lotuspsychje
<kostkon> https://uappexplorer.com/snap/ubuntu/sdlpop
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj kostkon
<lotuspsychje> kostkon: neat, oldskool :p
<lotuspsychje> !info pingus | kostkon seen this one?
<ubot5`> kostkon seen this one?: pingus (source: pingus): Free Lemmings(TM) clone. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.7.6-4 (artful), package size 652 kB, installed size 2222 kB
<lotuspsychje> hey pragmaticenigma
<pragmaticenigma> 'alo
<lotuspsychje> pragmaticenigma: slow support still :p
<kostkon> lotuspsychje, pingus is cool. a well made clone
<lotuspsychje> yeah tested recently, cool graphs
<JimBuntu> Wow, I haven't even thought about the Lemmings game in years
<lotuspsychje> same here
<lotuspsychje> so many original oldskool games out there
<JimBuntu> I played Wolf3D a few months back, was thinking about breaking out an old machine with floppies to grab some other games
<lotuspsychje> JimBuntu: neat :p
<JimBuntu> Ah shoot! Time to break out MoonMist!
<pragmaticenigma> Ah, nope _no plugins installed_ ??? really smh
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> nice find tomreyn
<tomreyn> lotuspsychje: documentation is also avialble on this when you click on the "support" link on one.ubuntu.com
<tomreyn> (which is tiny and at the bottom of the page)
<lotuspsychje> nice to know
<lotuspsychje> i would never have guessed..
<lotuspsychje> mostly its account related, or launchpad 2 key related
<tomreyn> neither. its his browser addon posting content on hidden form fields which a user would not do. an anti abuse detection measure integrated into the SSO code
<lotuspsychje> cool
<lotuspsychje> and sounds logic when you explain it
<pragmaticenigma> I wonder what purpose that really stands for...
<tomreyn> it's a common approach to detect form submissions by bots, who will just blindly submit content for both human visible and non-visible from fields
<tomreyn> and you dont want to have bots bang against your door, so that's why it's there i guess.
<pragmaticenigma> I know, but a field that a password manager is going to trip?
<tomreyn> well, it's a bot, and behaves like one. i don't know why lastpass would submit form content on hidden fields, it seems wrong to me.
<pragmaticenigma> I wonder where they installed their lastpass plugin from
<lotuspsychje> firefox addons website?
<pragmaticenigma> you would hope... but people do strange things
<tre99> just love it when you encounter passive-aggressive people in the industry
<tre99> you ask a question and they give you a non-answer answer just to give you a hard time
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-04-05
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Awhh ,, the day crew is comming on .. a bit early lotuspsychje ?
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om
<lotuspsychje> yeah woke up early and fit :p
<lotuspsychje> vacation starts to effect :p
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Then we make it a good day :D
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> coffee==start
<Bashing-om> coffee==brain lubrication .
<lotuspsychje> lol
<Bashing-om> I tell you the truth, until my 2nd cup of coffee - I do not hold myself liable :P
<lotuspsychje> hehe
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: we are in the twilight zone :p
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Or .. a bygone era, I somtimes feel like I am living in the stone age .
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lordievader> Good morning
<lotuspsychje> hey lordievader how are you?
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje
<lordievader> Doing good here, how are you?
<lotuspsychje> great here, enjoying vacation
<lotuspsychje> rainy, but time off is always nice
<lordievader> Oeh, vacation. Nice :)
<ducasse> good morning, hoomans!
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse morning
<ducasse> morning, lotuspsychje
<ducasse> how are you?
<lotuspsychje> great here mate tnx
<ducasse> any plans today?
<lotuspsychje> yeah chill a bit at home
<lotuspsychje> you plans ducasse ?
<ducasse> nothing during daytime, meeting a friend at a cafÃ© tonight
<lotuspsychje> hey OerHeks
<lotuspsychje> hows that desk comming up :p
<OerHeks> Hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: cool, enjoy it!
<OerHeks> Desk is ready, now behind my laptop on the couch
<lotuspsychje> cool
<OerHeks> how are you guys doing? been a while
<lotuspsychje> yeah fine here mate
<ducasse> morning OerHeks
<ducasse> long time no see :)
<lotuspsychje> he's gonna seed bionic torrents right :p
<lotuspsychje> !isitoutyet
<ubot5`> Not yet!
<Ben64> bionic seems neat
<lotuspsychje> Ben64: you testing?
<Ben64> put it on a friend's laptop
<lotuspsychje> cool
<lotuspsychje> bbl
<Ben64> installed nicely, only had a problem with right click
<TJ-> Ben64: am I talking to a sophisticated bot there? I think I am
<Ben64> idk, i'm starting to think he tried to set up a pppoe connection
<TJ-> Yes, and is not reading what he's told
<TJ-> he's connected from a dedicated server in Zurich
<TJ-> which suggests a possible VPN
<Ben64> hmm
<Ben64> first i've seen "M247 LTD Zurich Dedicated Servers"
<lotuspsychje> Ben64: i noticed some weird mouseclick behaviour on bionic too
<lotuspsychje> when click left, it gives me right sometimes
<Ben64> oh this was a laptop touchpad that only had one click, but decided r/l based on x position
<Ben64> in ubuntu it just was always l
<BluesKaj> Howdy all
<lordievader> Hey BluesKaj
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<BluesKaj> Hi lordievader, doing ok here, and you?
<lordievader> Doing ok here too :)
<lotuspsychje> afternoon guys
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hi lotuspsychje
<BluesKaj> bbl...errands
<lotuspsychje> kk
<lotuspsychje> !info preload bionic
<ubot5`> preload (source: preload): adaptive readahead daemon. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.6.4-2 (bionic), package size 34 kB, installed size 135 kB
<lotuspsychje> new version
<lotuspsychje_> hey EriC^
<EriC^> hey lotuspsychje_ o/
<EriC^> what's up?
<lotuspsychje_> got home from shopping
<EriC^> cool
<EriC^> any goodies?
<lotuspsychje_> tomorrow more shopping at nearby city
<lotuspsychje_> few tshirts & grocerys
<EriC^> cool
<lotuspsychje_> how was your day EriC^
<EriC^> not bad, went for a drive did some stuff
<EriC^> eating pizza and milkshake now
<EriC^> :D
<lotuspsychje> nice
<EriC^> i wanna see a good movie
<EriC^> nothing new on zooqle unfortunately
<OerHeks> starwars ix
<OerHeks> Forrest Gump 2
<EriC^> lol
<lotuspsychje> life is like 2 boxes of chocolat
<nacc> i'm assuming Irritiable is the same jerk from before?
<OerHeks> nacc, i think a china dude
<lotuspsychje> nacc: he did some copy pasting the whole line instead of using tab a few
<lotuspsychje> not sure what he did on you?
<nacc> there was a user on mar 21 with the same typo'd user name
<nacc> and many times since
<nacc> oh well, they are rather rude, pedantic, and not always helpful
<lotuspsychje> hmm his style reminds me of that inxi dude
<nacc> and random offtopic stuff like that
<OerHeks> lonely people
<lotuspsychje> lets nail him
<lotuspsychje> thats what i meant copy paste nick and question
<nacc> yep
<OerHeks> lets grab a random issue .. seen that before..
<lotuspsychje> got a pic of your finished desk OerHeks ?
<lotuspsychje> i presume #ubuntu-gnome will last till xenial EOL then merge into #ubuntu right?
<lotuspsychje> !info avahi-dnsconfd
<ubot5`> avahi-dnsconfd (source: avahi): Avahi DNS configuration tool. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.6.32-1ubuntu1.1 (artful), package size 14 kB, installed size 89 kB
<lotuspsychje> !info avahi-dnsconfd xenial
<ubot5`> avahi-dnsconfd (source: avahi): Avahi DNS configuration tool. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.6.32~rc+dfsg-1ubuntu2.1 (xenial), package size 14 kB, installed size 91 kB
<pragmaticenigma> lotuspsychje, doubtful, it would more likely continue to exist as the Official Ubuntu desktop has a customized Gnome, while the #ubuntu-gnome might be for supporting the non-ubuntufied gnome?
<lotuspsychje> lol my kensignton gel mousebad broke on my hand
<lotuspsychje> *pad
<lotuspsychje> its like glue inside
<lotuspsychje> https://discountoffice.be/productImages/26/large/BA62399-1.jpg
<OerHeks> like bicycle seats, some people like to punch them :-(
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> hey hey i didnt punch it OerHeks :p
<lotuspsychje> i do other things to cool my anger..
<lotuspsychje> tuxracer
<lotuspsychje> !info butt
<ubot5`> Package butt does not exist in artful
<pragmaticenigma> !info lotuspsychje
<ubot5`> Package lotuspsychje does not exist in artful
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> im a ghost, my ip is 127.0.0.1
<lotuspsychje> pragmaticenigma: but there is already a #gnome channel?
<pragmaticenigma> I think you're overthinking it a smidge
<pragmaticenigma> by that same logic, lotuspsychje, there are channels for KDE, XFCE, LXDE... yet we have #lubuntu, #kubuntu, #xubuntu
<lotuspsychje> yes but those will still exist, as ubuntu-gnome will vanish pragmaticenigma
<pragmaticenigma> Guess we'll ahve to wait and see what happens
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<pragmaticenigma> lotuspsychje, https://ubuntugnome.org/blog/
<pragmaticenigma> As announced last week by Ubuntu founder Mark Shuttleworth, Ubuntu 18.04 LTS will include GNOME instead of Unity. Specifically, it will be GNOME (including gnome-shell) with minimal Ubuntu customization. Next year, if you are using either Ubuntu 16.04 LTS or Ubuntu GNOME 16.04 LTS, you will be prompted to upgrade to Ubuntu 18.04 LTS. For normal release users, this upgrade should happen with the release of
<pragmaticenigma> 17.10.
<lotuspsychje> yeah i know
<lotuspsychje> i just was curious what would happen to #ubuntu-gnome channel
<lotuspsychje> ttyl guys
<kostkon> last core update killed keyboard and sound in sdlpop. great..
<OerHeks> vroooommmm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3niFzo5VLI
<OerHeks> and docking https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtU_mdL2vBM
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-04-06
<ducasse> good morning, everyone
<jink> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DaCKPlnW0AE9UjG.jpg:large
<lordievader> Good morning
<lordievader> jink: Nice one ð
<ducasse> hi lordievader - all well?
<lordievader> Doing good here, how are you?
<ducasse> all well here, thanks. snow finally melting.
<lordievader> It got cold here again.
<lordievader> Looked out the window this morning, sun was shining, I figured it would be warm. On my way to work it was damned cold -.-
<ducasse> we've had warm weather for a few days, forecast says more to come.
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-04-07
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> WB lotuspsychje :)
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om
<lotuspsychje> 22 degress this weekend
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Cold here too .. and that S word tomorrow !
<Bashing-om> Heber Springs, AR: Temp: 48Â°F (9Â°C) ~ Overcast ~ Humidity: 43% ~ Wind: From the North at 8 MPH Gusting to 16 MPH ~ Alert: Freeze Warning ~ Observed: Fri 06, 23:15
<lotuspsychje> for us this is warm :p
<Bashing-om> come on sun shine !
<lotuspsychje> yess
<lotuspsychje> lets c if im bit up to date here
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Bionic with lots of updates - beta-2 .
<lotuspsychje> yeah readed
<lotuspsychje> 58mb
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic bionic
<ubot5`> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.15.0.13.14 (bionic), package size 2 kB, installed size 14 kB
<lotuspsychje> reboot
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: And all good from the reboot :P
<lotuspsychje> yeah boot desktop still too slow as i need it to be
<Bashing-om> xfce
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: xfce here and I have a 3+ second delay after password is entered .. not looked at yet .
<lotuspsychje> neat
<EriC^^> morning all
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
<EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
<EriC^^> what's up?
<lotuspsychje> playing with bionic beta EriC^^
<lotuspsychje> going to jacuzzi soon
<EriC^^> niice
<lotuspsychje> with breakfast :p
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Breakfast in jacuzzi ... beats Breakfast in bed ??
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> i mean breakfast before jacuzzi, we got 3h
<lotuspsychje> its an arrangement
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Aye ,, Vacation :P
<lotuspsychje> yess
<Bashing-om> rebooting the physical half - back in a few hours :)
<Bashing-om> \o
<ducasse> good morning, everyone
<daftykins> o/
<daftykins> morn :)
<EriC^^> morning all
<lotuspsychje> good noon to all
<lotuspsychje> !info ubuntu-unity-desktop
<ubot5`> Package ubuntu-unity-desktop does not exist in artful
<lotuspsychje> !info ubuntu-unity-desktop bionic
<ubot5`> ubuntu-unity-desktop (source: ubuntu-unity-meta): The Ubuntu Unity desktop system. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.1 (bionic), package size 2 kB, installed size 8 kB (Only available for amd64; arm64; armhf; i386; ppc64el)
<lotuspsychje> https://www.deviantart.com/art/Unity-1-739160105
<lotuspsychje> bbl city walk
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<daftykins> hey :) how are things BluesKaj?
<BluesKaj> Hi daftykins, doing ok here, how about you?
<daftykins> pretty good! i'm in London at the moment and for the last few days, setting up the IT and audio/video in my clients apartment
<BluesKaj> daftykins:  aha, sounds like an interesting setup
<BluesKaj> being an old a/v guy myself
<daftykins> ah ha, in that case he chose 3 x Bowers and Wilkins Cinema 7s for the fronts, a pair of B&W Mission speakers at the rear, then we have my choice of the LG OLED 55" B7 TV, Marantz NR1508 AV receiver and a 4K bluray player here in the lounge
<BluesKaj> Nice!\
<BluesKaj> B&W , whoa , wish I could afford their speakers
<daftykins> i think these 5 were about Â£1,800
<daftykins> i made a video if you'd like to see? i can private message the youtube link
<BluesKaj> sure
<BluesKaj> Hey TJ-
<TJ-> Hi BluesKaj
<daftykins> \o
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon
<lotuspsychje> burning a lubuntu bionic to usb
<kostkon> lotuspsychje, yeah give it a test. do all the work for us. https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/apr/07/tim-dowling-i-love-watching-other-people-work
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> gonna try it on hp pavilion 32bit
<kostkon> lotuspsychje, the older the better
<lotuspsychje> plugged in 2gig i had leftover, it had 1gig
<leftyfb> could someone take over helping out saberu? Trying to help them get this working Realtek RTL8812AU 802.11a/b/g/n/ac WLAN Adapter. Currently following https://askubuntu.com/questions/991643/rtl8812au-usb-adapter-driver-issues
<lotuspsychje> realteks are real pain lately
<lotuspsychje> got one myself stuck on bionic
<lotuspsychje> leftyfb: most cases its kernel and firmware related it doesnt work properly
<leftyfb> nm, got it working :)
<lotuspsychje> anyone knows why usn is down?
<kostkon> wow 404 even. not just down
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<daftykins> 32-bit :O
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: another machine yo would dump in container :p
<daftykins> or bury ;)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> but this isnt mine mate
<lotuspsychje> it has a nice sticker 'designed for windows Xp' on it!
<daftykins> *nod*
<daftykins> lotuspsychje: i have two of these at home doing nothing if you could ever make use of them for anyone - https://ark.intel.com/products/31733/Intel-Pentium-Processor-E2180-1M-Cache-2_00-GHz-800-MHz-FSB
<lotuspsychje> lets c
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: just the cpu?
<daftykins> yep, two of them
<lotuspsychje> ah cool
<lotuspsychje> well i also have box full stripped cpu's here
<daftykins> oh ok :)
<lotuspsychje> id rather stick to working machines, new or young :p
<kostkon> well a cpu from 2017 is good enough i think regardless the fact that is obviously a low end model
<daftykins> 2007
<daftykins> yeah it used to run my file server a few years ago
<kostkon> oops misread that lol
<kostkon> then i take back evetything i've said
<daftykins> :D
<kostkon> i had to
<lotuspsychje> oh no that irri guy is back
<zerorax> https://imgur.com/a/nZF1c
<zerorax> Ebuntu Proto(my enlightenment ubuntu distro which doesn't exist yet)
<zerorax> Proto = Prototype, and Ebuntu because it's Ubuntu with Enlightenment
<kostkon> zerorax, is in the making?
<zerorax> kostkon, correct. I am making it
<zerorax> I'm actually doing it as practice for when I roll out my own laptops in a few months... right now I'm just learning how to make an ubuntu based distro supporting all the upstream ubuntu stuff and repos
<zerorax> in a few months I'll be selling C201P "Chromebooks" with Ebuntu, I made the hardware acceleration drivers gpu on the chromebook and a custom firmware that allows booting ubuntu
<kostkon> zerorax, looks fine other than the theming
<zerorax> kostkon, yeah that's the default enlightenment theme, but personally I like it. Obviously at some point I will make it look more unique with it's own theme
<zerorax> I also have a Zen distro I made, 16.04 all packages recompiled for Ryzen/Threadripper optimized
<zerorax> but it was also practice for doing more serious things, since I would have to recompile everything in the repos to make it useful\
<lotuspsychje> zerorax: wich enlightment version is this based on?
<kostkon> zerorax, why proto? does the name imply some kind of numerical significance?
<zerorax> lotuspsychje, 21
<zerorax> kostkon, proto is because it's a prototype:P
<zerorax> I will drop the Proto and replace it with alpha when it gets to testing stages
<zerorax> right now there's still some small issues to figure out and I need to clean it up some bit
<lotuspsychje> wasnt there some enlightment distro's out there already?
<survey0r> bodhi is the only enlightenment distro i know of
<zerorax> yeah, but it's crap
<zerorax> bodhi is not good #1 and #2, I need to practice running a distro and making them because in a few months I will be selling laptops
<zerorax> 1.8ghz quad core rockchip64 with mali t764 and 4gb ram for $300 preloaded with Ebuntu, it's rebranded chromebooks and I made the gpu driver have full hardware acceleration for rendering and video codeing/decoding
<lotuspsychje> eolive or something too?
<daftykins> anything rockchip is bad :>
<zerorax> daftykins, it's very good hardware
<zerorax> I have 5 of them that I'm using to test my GPU drivers right now
<daftykins> nah they're cheap chinese SoCs that suck
<zerorax> daftykins, they are cheap, correct.
<zerorax> The hardware I will be selling will be $300 for a netbook, so yes, they are cheap
<zerorax> I can get away with charging $300 because I put the work into making it run linux and because no spectre/meltdown which is a hot button issue right now
<zerorax> they are $250 with chromeos
<zerorax> from asus
<zerorax> but... back to Ebunut
<zerorax> anyone have suggestions for things I should do to it?
<daftykins> oops don't spell it that way in any adverts :)
<lotuspsychje> zerorax: im a fan of vanilla ubuntu
<zerorax> lotuspsychje, Cool, well, that will of course be an option for you to install, but I like enlightenment, it's fairly light weight but very nice compositing and effects... I just like it\
<lotuspsychje> zerorax: http://news.softpedia.com/news/exlight-linux-distro-now-based-on-ubuntu-17-10-features-enlightenment-desktop-518582.shtml
<zerorax> I'll ship it with anything the customer wants if they request it and it exists
<zerorax> yeah I don't like enlightenment 22
<zerorax> I stopped liking at 20 when they made it look like osx
<zerorax> But yeah, even if what I'm making exists, I need to make it so I learn how to make ubuntu based/compatible distros
<zerorax> Because soon i'll have to roll an aarch64 one, which i'm sure doesn't exist
<zerorax> So I'm practice and make something nice at the same time
<zerorax> I'm a hacker, not in the illegal sense, in the sense that I learn from playing with things and doing stuff
<zerorax> So to learn to make a ubuntu variant, I am making one:D
<zerorax> learning as I go
<lotuspsychje> got a webshop?
<zerorax> nope
<zerorax> I got nothing
<zerorax> I have a blog... but it's down for maintenance that I've been putting off for a long time
<zerorax> I'm gonna make a blog post about rolling your own ubuntu variant when I'm done this
<zerorax> and, when it comes time to sell, I'll be selling on amazon
<zerorax> anyways I gotta go... BJJ class is calling my name
<zerorax> tty all later
<hggdh> sigh
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: ehhhh whats up doc :p
<hggdh> some users at #u rub me wrong...
<lotuspsychje> it was a bugsbunny joke :p
<lotuspsychje> he's been working on many nerves lately
<hggdh> yeah. I am starting to think this will have to stop
<lotuspsychje> problem with these guys, they mix offtopic with support
<hggdh> indeed, and -- even worse -- do not know how to stop. Unfortunately
<lotuspsychje> hey ericrajuin
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^
<EriC^^> lol
<EriC^^> hey
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: there we go again
<hggdh> done
<EriC^^> hggdh: perfect opportunity for elmor joke , wth man
<EriC^^> :D
<hggdh> heh
<lotuspsychje> lets c what he does :p
<hggdh> now at #freenode
<Carll> trolls be trolling
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> same as that irrit... guy
<lotuspsychje> petro: wich card do you have atm?
<petro> hi, I am wondering if anyone can give me feedback or an opinion on nvidia cards use vs amd radeon cards
<lotuspsychje> on wich ubuntu version petro ?
<petro> I have a gtx 750
<petro> ubuntu 17.10
<petro> I usually like to use two ubuntu versions, an 'older one' that I don't use much as a back-up and the 'most recent'
<petro> for e.g., I have two partitions, 17.04 and 17.10
<lotuspsychje> petro: 17.04 is end of life
<petro> I've had two 'nvidia' problems in the last year.... one last night and one a while ago
<lotuspsychje> petro: and on 17.10 wayland and nvidia are not quiet ready yet
<petro> lotuspsychje, yes, I have to update it soon
<petro> lotuspsychje, I know :)
<lotuspsychje> petro: so for your card: nouveau + xorg might be an idea
<petro> are you familiar with phoronix?  sometimes, I read that site... I thought amd drivers were improving
<kostkon> petro, so are you planning to buy a new card
<lotuspsychje> petro: drivers always improving
<petro> kostkon, no plan yet
<petro> I was just wondering about it
<kostkon> petro, your current one is really old though
<tomreyn> petro: i have a Radeon RX 580 here (specifically 1002:67df), which runs (and performas) with the open source amdgpu driver (but depends on proprietary firmware). am very happy with it.
<petro> a rx 550 is about $135 here but only 2mb
<petro> kostkon, yeah, that was part of the consideration
<lotuspsychje> petro: we have some users reporting a nice nvidia + wayland experience too
<petro> lotuspsychje, how?
<petro> lotuspsychje, I thought you cannot use wayland with a nvidia card?
<petro> I know that I cannot log in the wayland section
<petro> I mean, option
<lotuspsychje> petro: depends type of chipset, tweaks i think
<lotuspsychje> petro: bashing-om reported he got his wayland working like a charm
<petro> I thought you can use Intel and AMD Radeon with Wayland now?
<petro> *graphics*
<lotuspsychje> petro: he will come online soon, idle here and ask him ok
<lotuspsychje> petro: my netbook has amd card, wayland works but bit more lags then xorg
<tomreyn> my experience with users asking for support with graphics hardware is that people with nvidia systems run into problems whenever they do distribution upgrades (but not often those who use other grphics chipsets)
<petro> my gtx 750 is using the maxwell gpu architecture....whatever that means for wayland
<petro> tomreyn, yep
<petro> I also think an upgrade of the kernel or even the graphics driver means potential problems
<lotuspsychje> petro: for your card, xenial works fine perhaps with the ubuntu graphics ppa
<tomreyn> it tends to
<petro> I'm kinda tired of the nvidia drivers causing the entire system to be messed up
<petro> lotuspsychje, until it doesn't? :)
<lotuspsychje> petro: meanwhile devs are working hard on 18.04.1 who knows what will happen in the future?
<petro> nvidia is best for gaming, I'm told but I don't really game.... I'm sure hard core gamers would put up with those issues
<petro> lotuspsychje, yeah, true...but, there seems to be an issue whenever upgrading
<tomreyn> nvidias can provide the highest performance. amd is not *that* far behind.
<lotuspsychje> petro: thats not very true, 14.04 and 16.04 working great on your card
<lotuspsychje> petro: if you choose non-lts versions, you agree latest/not so stable installs
<petro> my main usage that would be effected by graphics drivers quality:  video streaming... I guess that is #1
<petro> lotuspsychje, I usually run one of both.... I use lts for my backup ...if anything happens to the other one
<lotuspsychje> petro: ok, so you say you dont game so xorg + nouveau did you test it?
<petro> I used to run Debian too.... but, I was too busy for maintenance... for e.g. I ran Stable and sid
<hggdh> oh, that was interesting bugz succeeded in bothering so much on #freenode that he was k-lined
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: they always punish themselfs at the end
<hggdh> lotuspsychje: indeed. This is a good example of the wrath of idiots
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> too bad, as their potential was volunteering..
<lotuspsychje> seems like being helpful is relative for everyone
<hggdh> OTOH, many times I saw him/her giving weird advice
<lotuspsychje> ah
<lotuspsychje> never watched him closely, that rabbit was so fast :p
<hggdh> heh
<hggdh> of course, they do not know when to stop. They are back at #freenode
<petro> lotuspsychje, I was running the proprietary driver
<lotuspsychje> petro: wich version
<petro> lotuspsychje, can I choose between nouveau and proprietary with software?
<petro> I used 375 and recently, 384
<lotuspsychje> petro: on xorg or wayland?
<petro> 'Software and Updates' displays the driver in use but there's an option to change it to nouveau
<petro> lotuspsychje, either... I assume I cannot use wayland?
<lotuspsychje> petro: sudo apt purge nvidia* makes you go back to nouveau
<petro> lotuspsychje, you can't select it in those settings?
<lotuspsychje> petro: so test xorg + nouveau ok
<lotuspsychje> petro: normally yes, check ubuntu-drivers list from a terminal
<petro> I am not sure if I recall, accurately, but on the devtalk forum for nvidia, I think several people were complaining of having problems trying wayland
<petro> what about the gui list?
<lotuspsychje> petro: correct a lot of bugs already, but then we have some good storys aswell
<petro> I prefer to switch with that rather than 'purging' it manually :)
<petro> I was about to 'purge it' last night as a last resort... I had a nvidia issue and also grub issue..kernel issue :)
<lotuspsychje> petro: in GUI additional drivers it should show Xorg also yes
<petro> lotuspsychje, yep
<petro> it does
<tomreyn> hggdh: s10gopal is also working hard on this
<lotuspsychje> petro: ok, pick and reboot
<lotuspsychje> hggdh tomreyn yeah, confirming that on offtopic alot
<hggdh> tomreyn: yes. I wonder if today is the International Day of Being a Bore
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: and that irrit guy cant recall full name
<TJ-> IrritableVowelSymdrome?
<lotuspsychje> something like that yeah TJ-
<hggdh> irritiable<something>?
<lotuspsychje> yes
<tomreyn> irritiable with or without |LT, but i didn't see him cause trouble
<lotuspsychje> petro: as our conversation has now turned into more support, you could back using #ubuntu if you like
<petro> I'm leaving it as is for the moment
 * tomreyn food
<lotuspsychje> no sweat
<petro> But, I was wondering what you would have to do if you switched to an amd card
<lotuspsychje> petro: i would not buy hardware to make an ubuntu system work
<lotuspsychje> petro: i would choose the ubuntu version, that works on current card
<petro> *you would have nvida proprietary drivers or nouveau installed* (but would want to use amdgpu drivers or something?)
<lotuspsychje> didnt test amdgpu on wayland myself sorry
<petro> What works best with ubuntu 17.10 or 18.04 and stable kernel (4.13?)
<lotuspsychje> petro: 18.04 has now kernel 4.15
<petro> oops, I meant 4.15
<petro> okay, that combo, then?
<lotuspsychje> petro: we really cant generalize things like that
<lotuspsychje> petro: every system is different
<lotuspsychje> petro: in most cases, choosing an LTS version is best, but not always true
<lotuspsychje> petro: sometimes the system needs a latest outfit
<lotuspsychje> newer hardware, later kernels
<lotuspsychje> petro: perhaps take a look at ubuntu certified hardware url
<lotuspsychje> petro: https://certification.ubuntu.com/
<lotuspsychje> petro: but even when you pick the best hardware for ubuntu, ubuntu itself also changes during the years
<petro> lotuspsychje, sure
<petro> lotuspsychje, but, the amd rx 550, for e.g., is a fairly recent card....and I could use open source drivers...they're supposedly pretty good right now
<petro> better than nouveau, I think...but, I was hoping someone here who has tried either or both, would offer an opinion :)
<lotuspsychje> we have some users on amd cards here
<hggdh> so... I bought a new laptop from System76 -- galago pro -- and was wondering how long it would survive on battery
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: wow, how much did it cost?
<hggdh> I did not notice, this morning, that the power plug got disconnected, so now I know: at least 4 hours
<lotuspsychje> neat
<lotuspsychje> so you running that popOs! thing hggdh ?
<hggdh> lotuspsychje: with the two SSDdrives (250G and 500G), plus 32GM of main memory, $1,700
<lotuspsychje> dingdong :p
<hggdh> lotuspsychje: no, I ,I immediately installed Bionic. Unfortunately, I should have tried pop-os
<hggdh> but I will get the old laptop and put it on pop-os
<lotuspsychje> im also a vanilla ubuntu lover :p
<lotuspsychje> i bet that rocknrolls on 32ram
<hggdh> right now it reports 4G in use... but the VMs will start piling in
<hggdh> and containers
<hggdh> but builds are quite fast, even on an i5
<lotuspsychje> neat
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: your on gnome or other flavor?
<hggdh> in fact, faster than they were on the old system76, with a full i7
<hggdh> gnome
<hggdh> only one nitpick: gnome does not provide persistent scaling of the display (it is a hidpi one)
<lotuspsychje> ah
<lotuspsychje> on wayland or xorg?
<hggdh> so logs in with 200% scaling, pretty much transforming the HiDPI to 1800x1080
<hggdh> xorg
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: i sell clevo barebones with ubuntu and samsung 850 pro ssd's
<hggdh> nice
<lotuspsychje> alot cheaper then system76
<hggdh> at least you can get one built for you much cheaper
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<hggdh> had I known...
<lotuspsychje> but then system76 is very high end
<kostkon> hggdh, it has a 4k monitor?
<hggdh> yes
<kostkon> nice
<lotuspsychje> hey oerheks
<hggdh> off of 4k glory in 13 inches
<hggdh> s/off/all/
<kostkon> hggdh, more than enough for that screen size
<hggdh> yes indeed
<lotuspsychje> https://system76.com/laptops/galago
<hggdh> I am waiting to get back home and plug it in a big 4k display
<hggdh> (like a 60'' TV set
<lotuspsychje> petro: Bashing-om in the house, ask him
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Just poking me head in .. not got the body ready - yet :P
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: dont worry, i warn users our idles are BIG
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: :D ... I will - I will .. sooner or later :)
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: petro was curious how you got wayland and nvidia to work
<oerheks> not, nvidia and wayland are no go
<oerheks> you would get a Xorg inlog only, after install nvidia drivers
<lotuspsychje> thats what i always so too
<lotuspsychje> but Bashing-om here got it straight
<hggdh> and the saga with bugz keeps on
<oerheks> i hope the synaptic bug is gone with 18.04
<oerheks> nt compatible with wayland yet
<lotuspsychje> lets prepare for a bionic bug tsunami :p
<lotuspsychje> but dont worry TJ- gonna do overtime lol
<oerheks> poor lad, just awake from wintersleep ..
<lotuspsychje> oh for some feedback
<lotuspsychje> tested lubuntu 32bit 18.04 daily today with success, by bypassing the ubiquity bug with 'try lubuntu'
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: petro .. well still a work in progress: for one instance - https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2385770 .
<lotuspsychje> setup has now a normal/mini option looking shiny :p
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: does that mean that 390 likes wayland?
<lotuspsychje> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Linux-4.15-NVIDIA-390-Driver
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Means that it "might" work in wayland .. a lot depends on the card .
<lotuspsychje> cool
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: If I could find it in my notes .. If I could find it ! the progress of the 390 driver on wayland .
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: im already browsing, alot to find on 390 howtos
<lotuspsychje> Corrected the SONAME of the copy of the libnvidia-egl-wayland library included in the .run installer package to libnvidia-egl-wayland.so.1
<lotuspsychje> bbl guys sleeptime
<petro> Hi, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to conclude from that link
<petro> Bashing-om, read through it and it looked like a lot of people with Intel/Nvidia graphics laptops are having issues
<petro> I think issues with laptop graphics is a 'special case' - meaning that it's a different can of worms to deal with...:)
<petro> I was mostly wondering about one gpu in a desktop and in that link, someone says nvidia and xorg - you still have problems
<Bashing-om> petro: what shows : lspci -k|grep -iEA5 'vga|3d' . See if you can run the 390 version driver .
<petro> Bashing-om, how can I show you?  pastebin?
<Bashing-om> petro: try as : lspci -k|grep -iEA5 'vga|3d' | nc termbin.com 9999 .
<Bashing-om> petro: Yhis channek os not for support, however... #ubuntu channel ?
<petro> Bashing-om, http://termbin.com/ukcku
<Bashing-om> this channel is not.
<Bashing-om> petro: See my repsonse in #ubuntu channel .
 * Bashing-om away from the keyboard for a spell .
<TJ-> poor tomreyn
<tomreyn> :)
<tomreyn> i've chosen this path, my karma will grow
<tomreyn> or maybe i'll burst up in flames at some point
<petro> Bashing-om, oh, I thought you were going to evaluate whether it would work with wayland :)
<TJ-> tomreyn: I cannot fathom how when you give exact commands someone can repeatedly mess them up by leaving out spaces and so on!
<tomreyn> TJ-: well i misspell things on the chat and on the command line all the time. but at least on the command line i double check them before hitting enter.
<tomreyn> maybe some time i'll grow up enough to also do that on IRC. ;-)
<TJ-> I'm on about the user you're giving commands to - seems like several times now they've ommitted and queried spaces
<daftykins> been there, done that :)
<TJ-> tomreyn: if it turns out apt has been replaced with the PPA package, I suggest we refuse additional support. The user has made this a non-Ubuntu system
<oerheks> lang time i have seen such creative ppa
<oerheks> c/long
<tomreyn> the ppa description says it just makes backports available earlier, but i guess that's kind of fatal
<tomreyn> and user knows not about using this ppa :-/
<Bashing-om> petro: /me back to work :)
<TJ-> Right, if a user doesn't know the implications and replaces core packages, we can't support that
<tomreyn> oh what surprises him now is that he gets different urls returned
<tomreyn> yes i agree, will recommend reinstall then
<kostkon> "dirk-computer42" a name you can trust
<TJ-> there you go, apt has been replaced
<tomreyn> good thinking indeed
<tomreyn> there are so many exciting ways to hose your system.
<TJ-> sometimes I wish systems would hose their users :D
<TJ-> tomreyn: I'm wondering if the user is having vision problems (possibly a very small font or eyesight). might be worth putting 2 spaces instead of 1
<kostkon> not knowing the basics also helps
<TJ-> if they're stuck in a console and the font is small... I got caught like that this week on a 2560x1440 12" display!
<TJ-> tomreyn: omg! if they maange to type all that! :)
<kostkon> he's really struggling lol
<tomreyn> TJ-: i'm wondering if its that or a mobile phone or a bad font, not sure
<TJ-> let's find out
<tomreyn> i was thinking about putting this series of commands into a script and uploading it and having them download it, make it executable, run it, but in the end it probably takes just as long
<TJ-> tomreyn: I was going to suggest that actually
<TJ-> tomreyn: how about if we make it possible for him to repeatedly wget the commands from plan text files ?
<tomreyn> TJ-: i'm not sure how this would work
<tomreyn> TJ-: i was just thinking about me or us writing up a script on an etherpad, then post it to a pastebin where they can wget it once, chmod +x and run it
<TJ-> tomreyn: right now he's reading the commands on IRC and trying to type them into a text console on the other PC with a very small font. We could just say do: wget http://domain.tld/a/1  a/2 a/3 a/4 a/5 as we give more commands?
<TJ-> then he just does bash ./1   bash ./2 and so on
<tomreyn> okay, that's a good plan, i can place them at https://tomreyn.megaglest.org/tau/ then
<tomreyn> 1 is done
<tomreyn> improvements welcome
<tomreyn> 2 also done
<tomreyn> my coffeine is wearing off, restocking
<tomreyn> 3 also done
<tomreyn> oops created them in wrong directory, fixed
<tomreyn> https://tomreyn.megaglest.org/tau/
<TJ-> :)
<tomreyn> "wget https://tomreyn.megaglest.org/tau/1 tau/2" doesn't actually work, it treats them as full urls
<tomreyn> but i assume this was just an example
<TJ-> yes, I was thinking you'd get him to wget 1 file at a time, run it and capture output to termbin, then give the next url. But your alternative works just as well :)
<TJ-> make sure he knows he can recall the last wget command and edit it using the up key, else I feel he'll retype the entire URL!
<tomreyn> i'm not sure whether he's into bash history, would not want to make him type this url more than once
<tomreyn> yes, could try to explain this, he does not seem stupid. ;-)
<TJ-> should just be up arrow :)
<TJ-> should have had alpha do an SSH session to the broken system I guess, so copy/paste commands was possible. Always get bright ideas when it's too late :)
<tomreyn> i was actually thinking about it but getting netwokring working took a while and i did not want to spend more time on setting up sshd and putty and whatnot.
<daftykins> if they can't type commands can they really enable SSH and port forward? :D
<tomreyn> there should be no need to port forward
<daftykins> i'm not in there to follow along so don't know the setup :)
<tomreyn> it'd just been about the user connecting to his own local system
<kostkon> "what is the up curzer" that guy didnt grow up with computers
<TJ-> It makes support painful... what should take literally 10 minutes ends up taking 4 hours
<tomreyn> i dont know how long i'm trying him to run wget by now
<tomreyn> feels like hours :)
<TJ-> tomreyn: I've learned to step back from these kind of users, it's not rewarding
<tomreyn> not very :)
<TJ-> I'm having fun trying to port the 12.04 server services into individual LXC application containers in the 18.04 chroot, with the aim of a single reboot+changeover!
<tomreyn> yuo still have more patience than i do
<tomreyn> that must be a rather important server
<daftykins> :)
<TJ-> It's been running constantly since 2006, with d-r-u's until 12.04... collected so much crud in configs I can't be sure what is legacy and what isn't, so doing a clean switch this time around
<daftykins> :D
<tomreyn> i logged into a VM which i had apparently forgotten about for 4 years the other day. luckily i'm njot the only admin there and it was set to track debian/stable in terms of updates, and automatic updates were enabled. so it self-upgraded across two debian releases. ;-.)
<tomreyn> just, of course, the kernel was ... not in shape
<daftykins> xD
<daftykins> was it externally facing? (public internet)
<TJ-> hehehe I wonder how many stray containers there will be in 5 years time that people have forgotten? I found 10 on 1 of my systems the other day I could barely remember creating
<daftykins> :D suddenly the reasons for VMs being able to have 'descriptions' attached in many hypervisors makes sense
<tomreyn> good old plain internet, the extra raw stuff, of course.
<daftykins> \o/
<TJ-> I love how containers are so disposable. I fire them up in seconds to do some experiment or build some package, or try to reproduce some issue
<tomreyn> maybe a new branch to work in is "cloud waste management"
<daftykins> soon i can switch my clients Spain router over to VPNing via his London apartment instead of my own digitalocean VPS, then i can destroy mine (14.04) and create a new on bionic
<lotuspsychje> neat
<TJ-> tomreyn: LoL I like that! make a great title on a business card
<tomreyn> ^W recycling
<daftykins> xD
<tomreyn> so we solved the "industry 4.0" problem, too
<tomreyn> on the other hand real world waste is not going to vanish either
<TJ-> I know one thing that's needed - A.I. that can identify and remove all the out-of-date instructions on web pages!
<tomreyn> best viewed with internet exploiter 4.0!
<TJ-> :)
<daftykins> ugh i tried to order from a burger place here online last night, their menu page redirected to their order page - and their order page redirected to the menu page
<daftykins> had to phone in :D
<TJ-> :D
<TJ-> You should gone for a canonical pizza :)
<TJ-> they get thrown over the wall without all the toppings on!
<daftykins> lmao
<daftykins> TJ-: i bet my kernel wouldn't support it
<tomreyn> not a realtime kernel?
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-04-08
<Bashing-om> tomreyn: IRT alpha__ : Might remind him when he points the installer to /home DO NOT choose to format the partition .
<TJ-> ^^^ haha yes, I was thinking that
<daftykins> :D
<TJ-> tomreyn: You must be on overtime by now!
<daftykins> !cookie | tomreyn
<ubot5`> tomreyn: Wow! You're such a great helper, you deserve a cookie!
<TJ-> oh, he left for 45 minutes!
<Bashing-om> TJ-: ^ long 'nuff to hit the rain locker and grab a Snickers bar ( or 2 ) :P
<TJ-> Or escape the country :D
<Bashing-om> TJ-: Sometimes that do feel like the better course :)
<TJ-> :p
<TJ-> yeah... for me it's a certain someone trying to git bisect the kernel for a battery-drains-whilst-shutdown
<daftykins> hmm i don't know pfsense enough to know what rule i might require to add a tertiary interface bidirectional comms with the LAN
<daftykins> plugged the second interface on the Huawei HG612 VDSL2 transceiver into the third NIC on our AMD APU router :)
<Bashing-om> TJ-: "battery-drains-whilst-shutdown" and I only thought I had problems :D
<daftykins> silly me, should've realised the transceiver would have no idea about the LAN subnet - i needed a NAT rule
<tomreyn> so how do i git insect the kernel!!?? tell me!!
<tomreyn> but apparently there are really people who run into this issue?
<daftykins> uh oh, Brundeltux xD
<daftykins> (Brundelfly, movie reference to "The Fly" with Jeff Goldblum)
<tomreyn> thanks, this hint was necessary.
<tomreyn> i never watched it in english
<daftykins> ah har
<hggdh> tomreyn: remember insect == bug
<tomreyn> :)
<Bashing-om> "  what would a good name for the user be?" TJ- does hand holding while babby stepping in progres :)
<hggdh> Bashing-om: good name... struwwelpeter
<TJ-> Bashing-om: sometimes, when I think I've plumbed the depths of dumbness, I'm surprised once again :)
<TJ-> Bashing-om: the 'good name' I was thinking isn't printable in this channel!
<Bashing-om> LOL .. only you can do it !
<hggdh> TJ-: that's why I proposed struwwelpeter
<TJ-> If you hear laughing it isn't me honest
<hggdh> heh
<TJ-> And NOW it turns out the target is Mac not Linux at all!!!!
 * TJ- becomes an active shooter!
<survey0r> lol
<Bashing-om> It's laughter in the face of crying :)
<TJ-> Bashing-om: I've got audiobook on... BBC's sublime I'm Sorry I Haven't a Clue compendium
<hggdh> at least the wtruwwelpeter stories (Der Struwwelpeter Gesicht) should be adjusted for computers. The Germans, at least did not dance around, went straight for the kill
<hggdh> the thing goes like this: he was sucking his thumb, and his mother said "don't suck your thumb, the taylor will come and cut your thumb out."
<hggdh> He kept sucking his thumb, and the taylor came and cut both his thumbs off.
<hggdh> Done. Lesson imparted.
<TJ-> I suppose that saves on buying two thimbles
<hggdh> Or, rather, excised.
<hggdh> I had the vinyl from Stern, and my kids used to listen to it pretty much every day
<TJ-> what's wrong with sucking thumbs anyhow? they taste good
<TJ-> Admittedly it's not a good idea to do it whilst dealing with Ubuntu bugs since you tend to bite down!
<hggdh> there you go
<Bashing-om> Who is to say that the theory of relativity was not developed while the thumb was engaged ?
<TJ-> We certainly seem to encounter disturbances in the space-time continuum in #ubuntu
<Bashing-om> yeah, a fact ..it is the gravity of the situation .
<TJ-> :)
<EriC^> morning all
<ducasse> good morning, everyone
<lotuspsychje> hey guys morning
<EriC^> hey lotuspsychje
<ducasse> hi EriC^ - all well?
<EriC^> hey ducasse yeah thanks, yourself?
<ducasse> i'm well, thanks - just waking up here
<EriC^> cool
<lotuspsychje> EriC^ ducasse lol https://www.deviantart.com/art/Unity-1-739160105
<EriC^> what the heck is that
<lotuspsychje> he installed unity on bionic
<EriC^> oh
<EriC^> nice
<lotuspsychje> !info ubuntu-unity-desktop bionic
<ubot5`> ubuntu-unity-desktop (source: ubuntu-unity-meta): The Ubuntu Unity desktop system. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.1 (bionic), package size 2 kB, installed size 8 kB (Only available for amd64; arm64; armhf; i386; ppc64el)
<lotuspsychje> !info leaksanitizer
<ubot5`> Package leaksanitizer does not exist in artful
<lotuspsychje> !info slock
<ubot5`> Package slock does not exist in artful
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: slock is part of the suckless-tools package
<lotuspsychje> ah
<lotuspsychje> never messed with it
<petro> is it okay to install / upgrade to the nvidia driver from 384 to 390.48?
<lotuspsychje> petro: when added the graphics ppa, you can switch between drivers
<lotuspsychje> petro: additional drivers section, or ubuntu-drivers list
<petro> lotuspsychje, I noticed that but....
<petro> lotuspsychje, I'm afraid of the system being messed up....check this page quickly....hold on
<petro> https://askubuntu.com/questions/1006253/installing-latest-nvidia-driver-on-ubuntu-17-10
<lotuspsychje> petro: when your system results in black screen, you can always !nomodeset or sudo apt purge nvidia* to go back to nouveau
<petro> lotuspsychje, read this part:  "Ubuntu 17.10 Installs Wayland with the option for XServer using Gnom...."
<petro> lotuspsychje, this is all that is needed?:  " sudo apt purge nvidia"
<petro> lotuspsychje, I'm asking because I had the experience of that user above
<lotuspsychje> petro: its possible this occurs yes
<petro> lotuspsychje, I upgraded 384.111 to 384.130
<petro> lotuspsychje, so, if I had that black screen, I only have to run 'sudo apt purge nvidia' to go back to nouveau and...
<lotuspsychje> yes
<petro> lotuspsychje, I can then install 390.48 from Additional Drivers to use proprietary driver, 390.48, right?
<petro> lotuspsychje, right now, I disabled using wayland using that user's example.... I made a note of doing that so I don't forget
<lotuspsychje> petro: you dont upgrade drivers, you switch between them
<petro> lotuspsychje, just in case I decide to upgrade to 390.48.... I thought I should use the updated stable driver?
<petro> lotuspsychje, oh...right
<lotuspsychje> petro: if i was you, i would first test 390 without wayland tweak
<petro> lotuspsychje, okay
<lotuspsychje> petro: see if that works by default
<lotuspsychje> petro: if not, you can switch to other drivers
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<daftykins> o/
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj daftykins
<BluesKaj> hi lotuspsychje
<daftykins> greetings \o/
<BluesKaj> daftykins,
<lotuspsychje> cuppa coffee for you guys?
<daftykins> just done a trial run of my clients washing machine and dryer here, so was able to change into clean clothes and now it's time to consider who will get my money for lunch today :D
<daftykins> ooh that'd be lovely thanks :> could you whip me up a sandwich as well? ;)
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: wow from ict to laundry devices, great improve :p
 * BluesKaj has a coffee on the go
<lotuspsychje> take away latte is the best
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: sure thing, you digest meat in the morning? :p
<BluesKaj> latte isn't coffee it's coffe flavoured milk :-)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<daftykins> i've recently been mixing it up with a 'flat white' which i find quite nice
<lotuspsychje> ok i admit...coffee without loads of milk and sugar i cant stand
<daftykins> :O
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, good coffee passes the no sudar or milk test IMO
<lotuspsychje> those italian coffees taste good, but with sugar
<BluesKaj> no sugar even
<lotuspsychje> im a sweets guy
<lotuspsychje> bbl shopping
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-03-30
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<Fuseteam> Morning
 * Ublx trying to get some stuff done with Ubuntu ...
<lotuspsychje> doing what exactly
<marcoagpinto> hell!
<marcoagpinto> :)
<Bashing-om> UWN624 Hot off the terminal: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue624 :D
<oerheks> Bashing-om, there is a HUGE gnome gathering, in NL
<oerheks> they come from all over the netherlands and beyound...
<oerheks> https://www.haarlemsdagblad.nl/cnt/dmf20200330_80867055/de-zilk-overspoeld-met-kabouters
<pragmaticenigma> hopefully they're distancing themselves apart by 2 meters :-p
<oerheks> stay with your own tree, i guess
<Bashing-om> oerheks: Worthy for dispersion to the world - is there a page without the cookie requirements to view ?
<oerheks> no, maybe here there are more shots http://www.kennemerrunners.nl/kaboutertrail-2018/
<pragmaticenigma> me thinks I should make a run at the local garden shop, and run around tonight and add gnomes around the neighborhood :-P
<oerheks> they get  kidnapped by the dozen
<oerheks> one better buys the casting form.
<Bashing-om> oerheks: kennemerrunners looks so much fun - be real tough to make a case for ubuntu inclusion in the newsletter :(
<oerheks> yes, make it 'misplaced Gnome Gathering news, posted by OerHeks'
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-03-31
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<lotuspsychje> !community
<pragmaticenigma> There is no community.. only cathulu
<lotuspsychje> :p
<pragmaticenigma> !ubuntu
<ubot5> Ubuntu is a complete Linux-based operating system, freely available with both community and professional support. It is developed by a large community and we invite you to participate too! - Also see http://www.ubuntu.com
<Eickmeyer> EVERYONE: If someone has advanced audio questions like someone did and pragmaticenigma redirected them to #ubuntustudio, a much more active room would be #lau (Linux Audio Users) for such discussion and troubleshooting. Unless it's something specifiic to Ubuntu Studio, consider redirecting there.
<Eickmeyer> Please put that in your set of tools.
<oerheks> :-)
<Eickmeyer> Thanks, oerheks. :)
<oerheks> anything to help out
<Eickmeyer> I'm having to take today off to keep from burning out, first noticed when I reacted a way when someone got snippy with me in #ubuntustudio for not knowing the answer to their problem.
<oerheks> Eickmeyer, you are doing a great job. take your time, your family is more important now.
<pragmaticenigma> Eickmeyer: might be a good idea... you appear rather tense right now. My only intent was to direct someone to a resource I knew of and thought would either help or further direct them to a better resource. There was no ill intent and I had no idea that invidual would have reacted the way they did in the #ubuntustudio channel.
<oerheks> tensions in irc channels go up and down, just a proof they are not all AI chatbots
<RikMills> beta release is a tad stressful for devs as well
<oerheks> True.
 * RikMills is calm... ommmmmmmmmmmm
<pragmaticenigma> the world overall is extremely tense right now
<daftykins> only some
<Eickmeyer[m]> pragmaticenigma: You're fine. I just wanted to give everyone another set of tools for their arsenal.
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-04-01
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<lordievader> Good morning
<sarnold> Bashing-om: btw one common problem with mysql maint scripts is folks changing between mariadb and mysqldb and finding the mariadb package disables the apparmor profile
<sarnold> Bashing-om: I'm not entirely sure how people manage to do this all the time, but it might be worth asking for *loads* of context to try to figure out what's ahppened here
<Bashing-om> sarnold: Tread lightly here as the poster just advised on WSL :( Not a lot of personal interest left here for me.
<sarnold> Bashing-om: oh cripes
<sarnold> Bashing-om: thanks :)
<sarnold> that's gotta be the first thing you say when you ask for help on something
<sarnold> like noscript users, arch users, fish shell users, etc :)
<Bashing-om> sarnold: Yup - WSL puts it out of our reach >> Kernel 4.4.0-18362-Microsoft :(
<sarnold> pity, though, since it sounds neat enough, and makes testing ubuntu-ish stuff so much easier for millions of people
<sarnold> I tend to forget windows is even a thing, but every now and then someone reminds me that they've got millions of users
<Bashing-om> sarnold: WSL might become a thing :D Unknow the level of ubuntu interest, however.
<Bashing-om> unkown*
 * daftykins 's vote is do it right, go authentic penguin (TM)
<sarnold> I think we've all got goodwill for making it work, but when step one is "have a windows computer", well, maybe we're not going to be good at dogfooding it ;)
<Bashing-om> sarnold: I departed Windows years back - and never looked back.
<sarnold> hehne yeah
<Bashing-om> sarnold: My clients come to me with a Windows problem - as I do not like/understand/want Microsoft - my solution is install 'buntu for them :P
<sarnold> haha
<sarnold> "look, your problem is gone!"
<oerheks> send all mint problems to me, thanks.
<Bashing-om> sarnold: In my small world ^^ works 100% of the time :D
<pragmaticenigma> count down to their return?
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-04-02
<pragmaticenigma> hey TJ- ... welcome to the party
<TJ-> oooo alcolhol!?
<pragmaticenigma> not quite
<pragmaticenigma> if only your issues for PDF were in Windows... I might have some answers
<TJ-> Been an uphill battle... wasted a day trying to get the printer to print at all... turned out a small pop-rivet had 'popped' out due to heavy handling by the courier and a stepper motor had moved out of place so it couldn't ingest cards. Saw the empty hole, shook the printer, out fell the plastic rivet. Now it prints fine *except* from the one application it needs to, Inkscape. However,
<TJ-> printing to PDF *then* opening it with Evince (PDF viewer) and then printing it from there works fine! Difference being the former uses cairo library and PDF-1.5, and the latter uses Ghostscript and PDF-1.2
<TJ-> Been trying to find some bug reports that might cover this, but in vain so far
<pragmaticenigma> I could maybe see how a stretch might happen and even monotone, rotation baffles me,
<pragmaticenigma> anychance that there is some sort of Adobe proprietary interpreter in the printer?
<TJ-> no, printer is fine from other PCs with apparently identical Xubuntu installs
<TJ-> I've checked the local user config has nothing set to affect this by printing from another user account. There's something in the CUPS filters I think but, again, cannot figure out where.
<pragmaticenigma> other computers have same issue with inkscape though?
<TJ-> no
<pragmaticenigma> so one computer with inkscape cannot print?
<pragmaticenigma> or rather prints incorrectly
<TJ-> something to do with the CUPS and/or PDF filter version I think
<pragmaticenigma> but why would it affect only one machine?
<pragmaticenigma> i think i'm missing something
<TJ-> as I said, the PDF-1.5 version... maybe that confuses the CUPS filter if it doesn't expect 1.5
<pragmaticenigma> right but don't the other machines have the same install/configuration?
<TJ-> I think part of it is the PPD for the printer sets a media type "Card" but for some reason the print dialog in Inkscape doesn't see that one. I set the page size manually to the same 86x54mm but it looks like without the media set to the exact media name it causes some upset
<TJ-> they do, in principle, but over time maybe something subtle has been changed... or because I do a lot of experimentation on mine maybe I've some package installed that affects this
<pragmaticenigma> that'd be my guess... you do like to experiment :-)
<TJ-> Here's what it does:  https://iam.tj/projects/ubuntu/IMG_20200402_022618.jpg
<sarnold> weird
<pragmaticenigma> me thinking out loud... TJ- you tested this specific printer on other machines?
<TJ-> pragmaticenigma: correct, and there it prints the same file fine from Inkscape with the same printer driver!
<TJ-> I'm going to get the apprentice to do some comparisons later today (I'm working through the night but he'll be here in about 5 hours!)
<pragmaticenigma> Me thinks your machine is "special"
<TJ-> he can check the producer and PDF versions for differences from my system's values
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<TJ-> hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey TJ-
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic bionic
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.15.0.91.83 (bionic), package size 2 kB, installed size 16 kB
<lotuspsychje> good morning cengiz_io
<cengiz_io> hello
<cengiz_io> good morning to you too lotuspsychje
<cengiz_io> thanks for your invite
<lotuspsychje> cengiz_io: i would convince them more with !USN then bugs, cause bugs arise very much, on every release
<cengiz_io> what is !USN
<cengiz_io> !usn
<ubot5> Please see https://usn.ubuntu.com/ for information about recent Ubuntu security updates.
<cengiz_io> oh. it's a good start.
<cengiz_io> thankfully though the device is completely offline. it will be used in intensive care units and there's no connectivity. not even USB
<lotuspsychje> cengiz_io: that will prove your team, tons of security flaws are risky to keep using 14.04
<cengiz_io> it only runs Qt4 frontend that controls a huge team of embedded cards over UARTs
<cengiz_io> by the way let me introduce myself. I'm an embedded linux developer working for a multibillion dollar company that uses Linux almost everywhere. but mostly custom built stuff with Yocto and Buildroot. x86_64 is very expensive
<lotuspsychje> cengiz_io: even offline, its probably part of a network? always good to keep ubuntu running on supported releases
<cengiz_io> sorry my archlinux hanged LOL
<cengiz_io> lotuspsychje in fact, it won't be connected to any network. except maintenance by field personell
<cengiz_io> personnel*
<cengiz_io> lotuspsychje but it will certainly be constantly get updates to userspace frontend application, and I don't want my team to work on an archived OS image that doesn't exist anymore.
<cengiz_io> I can even imagine requiring a new library that doesn't ship with aptitude and thus we have to install manually created deb packages..
<lotuspsychje> cengiz_io: will that machine get external media plugs?
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic eoan
<ubot5> Package linux-image-generic does not exist in eoan
<cengiz_io> hello lotuspsychje. currently only sensors via CAT5 cables. they are using custom protocols. but as in media if you mean USB drives and such, no
<lotuspsychje> cengiz_io: ok, so that sounds like a pretty isolated ubuntu system
<cengiz_io> lotuspsychje it is. but there will be future feature develelopments
<RikMills> cengiz_io: what are you askign exactly?
<lotuspsychje> RikMills: his original question was to convice his team why to upgrade to 18.04 from 14.04
<lotuspsychje> with all bugs in between
<RikMills> Qt4 is not going to get updates in any release, except in case of very critical CVEs. it is now dead upstream
<RikMills> hence why it was removed completely from 20.04
<cengiz_io> RikMills yet people are very reluctant despite Qt4 applications work almost perfectly with Qt5
<cengiz_io> (minus the font issue ofc, that's easily fixable by installing cc fonts)
<cengiz_io> anyway thank you for your assistance. I'll compile my warnings and propose my idea. the rest is up to those decision makers.
 * Aavar is upgrading... could not wait...
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-04-03
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<akem> It would be nice if there was a flag for rm to ask a single confirmation when it detects patterns likes '*' on the command line.
<akem> I accidently typed: "rm directory/ *" and it started removing all the files in the dir of course...
<pragmaticenigma> akem: could always make an alias for rm, to include the -I parameter ?
<akem> pragmaticenigma, Yes, thank you, that's what i was looking for. I skipped the manpage too quickly :P
<pragmaticenigma> happens to the best of us
<oerheks> Hey!
<oerheks> the betas are available as torrent too!
<oerheks> https://torrent.ubuntu.com/tracker_index
<oerheks> is this new?
<pragmaticenigma> that betas are available through torrents... not sure... i know releases have always been
<oerheks> never seen this before ..
<oerheks> great!
<pragmaticenigma> he'll give up before he gets much further i bet'
<nacc> :nod:
<marcoagpinto> the demon!!!!
<marcoagpinto> >:)
 * pragmaticenigma gives marcoagpinto a tranquilizer
<lotuspsychje> lol
<marcoagpinto> hello!
<marcoagpinto> almost 20.04!!!
<marcoagpinto> >:)
<kostkon> so close we can taste it. tastes like... cola?
<lotuspsychje> focal cola
<pragmaticenigma> oh... that didn't read right the first time I saw that
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-04-04
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<sonicwind> hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey sonicwind ; )
<ducasse> good morning
<lotuspsychje> !info subdownloader bionic
<ubot5> subdownloader (source: subdownloader): subtitle download/upload manager for video files. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.0.18-2.1 (bionic), package size 626 kB, installed size 2797 kB
<marcoagpinto> lotuspsychje: Komt jaar met dat bouw maar zelf. Tembunmijn verdedigen aanleiding vruchtbaar na geruineerd ik. Of zijn kern op valt. Schenen tunnels zekeren nog meester afkomst wat wel verdere. Bewijs beslag spelen de goping ze alleen al op.
<lotuspsychje> wut
<marcoagpinto> https://randomtextgenerator.com
<marcoagpinto> :)
<lotuspsychje> marcoagpinto: drink a cola, and type very very fast on your keyboard here please: https://hackertyper.net/
<marcoagpinto> I can't drink a cola
<marcoagpinto> the line to the store is always huge
<marcoagpinto> so, I can only go there every two or three days
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> I drink 1 litre per day
<marcoagpinto> a bottle gives two days
<marcoagpinto> anyway, dad bought me a bottle today
<marcoagpinto> :p
<brlin> Ubuntu desktop featured in "How Taiwan overcame it's face mask shortage | Coronavirus Update" @DW News https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-VHZ1-wqfY&t=81
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-04-05
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<joeywebb> hey guys
<joeywebb> hows everyone?
<daftykins> all well here thanks, and you?
<Croran> Unity is better than Gnome. Discuss.
<akem> So i compiled a kernel some time ago, then a more recent one lately (both using make menuconfig etc), and i wanted to remove the old one of course, but looks like there is nothing to do it automaticly, no "make uninstall" or whatever? that's strange. So i just removed the files manually.
<daftykins> sounds fine, might want to update grub though
<akem> Yep.
<Groar> oh
<Croran> :)
<Croran> https://www.quora.com/What-do-you-think-about-Canonical-replacing-Unity-with-Gnome-in-Ubuntu-18-04/answer/Daniel-Brown-1088
<Croran> you didn't find any issues similar to those when you switched Groar?
<Groar> Yeah, I prefered the bubbles over the new notifications, for example. Also, the title bar and menus waste so much space
<Croran> and when you click something that opens a 'sub window' you can no longer click the main window?
<Croran> nor even see what's underneath.
<Groar> yeah, absolutely agree
<akem> I think you can still install Unity if you want it. But Gnome is not bad. But i like LXQT even more(the DE shipped with LUbuntu).
<Groar> I'm thinking about moving to KDE
<Croran> KDE was unstable when i last used it, and ugly.
<daftykins> kubuntu as a whole is nice, almost fully functional for me out of the box
<Groar> well, I used it when KDE 4 was released for the last time
<Croran> akem: yes installing unity still works fine in 18.04. not officially supported though :(
<Groar> and..
<Groar> KDE 4 was fine, but unstable. But again, I used it when it was released
<Groar> it wasn't ugly though
<Croran> groar: you don't mind all the white/blue alternate colored rows in the file manager and music library and such
<Croran> croran: it looks like something an accountant would like
<Croran> lol. talking to myself.
<Groar> Croran: well, I don't care about it tbh
<Groar> I think that's made to make it easier to read a lot of lines
<Croran> groar: i like to be able to hit the meta key, type in a partial application name and hit enter and have it start.
<Croran> groar: as i recall, kde required some third-party plugin to even enable a 'search'
<Groar> search apps?
<Groar> or files?
<Croran> groar: apps
<Groar> oh, normally I used the menus
<Groar> otherwise I'd be using command-line, create a shortcut and click over it haha
<Croran> groar: right, i never use the menu. i put my 90% used apps in the dock and the rest i hit meta, type the name, and enter.
<daftykins> krunner is invoked with alt+space and can be used to launch anything
<Groar> yeah so unity fits for you
<Croran> daftykins: thanks. can be remapped to meta key without issues?
<daftykins> i imagine you mean super by that
<daftykins> i don't personally believe in fighting defaults
<Croran> daftykins: yes
<daftykins> though i was a bit frustrated since alt+space's original use is something i use
<Croran> daftykins: me neither usually, but certain keyboard shortcuts i've used so much that i don't want to change.
<Croran> daftykins: eg. i use ctrl+c and ctrl+v in vim
<Croran> gvim, rather.
<daftykins> i only know of copy and paste being different on macOS :D
<daftykins> a truly horrible OS
<Croran> daftkins: well gvim default is like "+yy or some nonsense
<daftykins> ah, life is too short for text editors you have to learn, in my book
<Croran> well don't get me wrong. i still think gvim is a net win for saving life.
<Croran> just the ability to select text 'columns' is a big one.
<Groar> https://askubuntu.com/questions/449651/how-do-i-enable-wobbly-windows >> sudo apt-get install compiz compizconfig-settings-manager compiz-plugins || I'm amazed 3D cube and wobbly windows are still available in Ubuntu
<daftykins> i'm amazed anyone still wants them
<Groar> haha
<Groar> I want them :D
<Croran> groar: haha. my fav is the compizconfig 'commands' plugin for keyboard shortcuts.
<Groar> time to have dinner
<Groar> have fun guys
<Croran> you too
