#ubuntu-marketing 2006-09-04
<ompaul> jenda, are you finished at this stage?
<ompaul> I am finished
<jenda> me too
<ompaul> johnlittle, are you finished
<jenda> I'm totally finished and off to bed ;)
<johnlittle> ompaul yes
<MenZa> gnight jenda
<ompaul> Burgundavia, you finished?
<jenda> nighty nigh
<jenda> t
<johnlittle> nite
<Burgundavia> ompaul: editing? yes
<Burgundavia> jenda: night jenda
<Burgundavia> thanks
* jenda will try to contribute more to the next UWN
<Burgundavia> no worries, any is good
<Burgundavia> ok, why does opening the edit window bring ephy to its knees?
<jenda> ouch
<Burgundavia> oh, crap
<Burgundavia> does anybody have a newer saved version from the gobby session?
<Burgundavia> I lost a bunch
* Burgundavia swears at gobby
<jenda> oh now
<poningru> whats the ip addy again?
<Burgundavia> it is gone there
<jenda> 24.69.71.211
<Burgundavia> my gobby crashed
<poningru> oh
<Burgundavia> I kept telling people to save
<Burgundavia> this is why
<jenda> ompaul?
<Burgundavia> nope
<poningru> craaaap
<ompaul> ahh
<jenda> asked sladen?
<poningru> I almost saved like 10 min ago
<ompaul> I saved about 10 seconds before you cut it
<poningru> awesome
<ompaul> okay lets see
<Burgundavia> ompaul: go nuts
<jenda> ompaul, we owe you one.
<ompaul> no
<Burgundavia> this is why everybody needs to keep locally saved copies, at least until gobby understands bzr
<ompaul> I thought saving was on the server
<Burgundavia> no, saving is yours
<ompaul> what kind of file am I looking for?
<jenda> a txt?
<Burgundavia> it should be in your home dir, under Ubuntu Weekly News
<Burgundavia> ompaul: theCore has one
<ompaul> I have it I think
<ompaul> Burgundavia,  okay it is there if you want it
<ompaul> available on your server
<jenda> hello theCore
<Burgundavia> ok, got it ompaul
<ompaul> Whoot!
<ompaul> now I can go nuts
<ompaul> :)
<theCore> hello all
<ompaul> where are theCore and sladen ?
<Burgundavia> ok, newer text on the wiki
<ompaul> okay
<Burgundavia> #ubuntu-doc
<theCore> ompaul, over are
<theCore> here 8
<ompaul> na country
<Burgundavia> sladen is UK
<jenda> yay @ https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue12
<jenda> hello sladen
<ompaul> cos that was florida .ie .uk .cz .ca and ..
<Burgundavia> sladen: you editing the wiki page right now?
<jenda> the contents on the page are weird...
<Burgundavia> in what way?
<jenda> If no one's editing, I'd fix them.
<ompaul> just a sec
<jenda> they only show one item
<Burgundavia> yep, that is odd
<Burgundavia> but the UWN usually doesn't have a auto created toc anyway
<ompaul> ahh it should do, it would look more professional
<ompaul> what are the hits for that part of the site>
<ompaul> we should make sure it is (A) getting seen
<jenda> well, not sure how that would look in the emailed version
<Burgundavia> the issue is, we need a manual one for the emailed version
<ompaul> it would look rubbish as it
<Burgundavia> wiki.ubuntu.com/PageHits
<jenda> anyway, i think, sladen, that if you remove the (1) in the contents piece at the top, it should work.
<theCore> puts a 2 instead
* sladen adding a screenshot
<jenda> I'd leave it without
<jenda> (the 2)
<jenda> BTW, have we decided on a format for the mailed version? There have been points raised on the topic.
<jenda> The wiki format might not be absolutely suitable.
<sladen> what's happening now?
<sladen> are we editing on the wiki
<sladen> on gobby?
<jenda> We thought you are :)
<jenda> no, not on gobby
<sladen> fridge has stuff on upstart
<jenda> sladen, are you editing the wiki?
<jenda> good point
<Burgundavia> the wiki
<sladen> revu day
<sladen> siretart on behind ubuntu
<Burgundavia> are you still adding content?
<jenda> sladen, are you editing the wiki right now?
<sladen> jenda: no
<jenda> ok, I'll fix the ToC, then leave you to it.
<sladen> we need a gobby<->wiki direct interface
<jenda> done
<sladen> anyone know how to put a floating-right-aligned image into moinmoin
<sladen> we have the upstart.png logo
<Burgundavia> need to enclose it in a div tag
<sladen> example?
<Burgundavia> and that is going to look hideous in the email version
<Burgundavia> the toc stuff
<Burgundavia> sorry s/div/table
<Burgundavia> please don't dive into heavy moin code
<jenda> Burgundavia: you won't see it in the email version.
<Burgundavia> this has to go out via plain text email
<jenda> it will look like: "
<jenda> ||<tablestyle="float:right; font-size: 0.9em; width:40%; background:#F1F1ED; margin: 0 0 1em 1em;" style="padding:0.5em;">'''Contents'''[[BR] ] [[TableOfContents] ] ||"
<jenda> And will easily be deleted.
<Burgundavia> look, please, no fancy stuff
<Burgundavia> we are already 15 hours behind schedule
<sladen> Burgundavia: dude, just delete it from the email version
<Burgundavia> lets get this issue out and then work on 13 if you want to plan
<Burgundavia> play
<sladen> Burgundavia: the bad part of the email version is that it can't be fixed afterwards as it is
<jenda> Oh, and BTW, I recieved feedback that it would be more appropriate if the UWN came from @ubuntu.com addys
<Burgundavia> yes, but that is copy editing, not play\ing with fancy stuff
<jenda> sladen: the easy solution - read once before clicking the send button ;)
<Burgundavia> then I will send out via my ubuntu.com addy
<Burgundavia> ok, pulling down my gobby session
<jenda> of course - he commented after it was sent from another one.
<Burgundavia> yep, last few have been sent from gmail addys
<Burgundavia> jenda: you done editing?
<jenda> done
<Burgundavia> doc is mine
<jenda> in fact, wouldn't it be best to have an uwn@ubuntu.com for this purpose, BTW?
<jenda> Shouldn't be that hard to set up...
<Burgundavia> why hide the editor?
<Burgundavia> I hate impersonal things
<jenda> not hidden, included in the issue itself. But sure - it's just an idea.
<jenda> editing https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter
<ompaul> Burgundavia, the news letter might get a better airing with an RSS feed
<ompaul> Just an idea
<Burgundavia> yep, it might
<Burgundavia> but then again, it does go out via the fridge feed
<Burgundavia> I will mention that
<ompaul> its getting 250 hits
<ompaul> sorry 125
<Burgundavia> sladen: does the fridge have category based rss feeds?
<ompaul> anyway it is good night from Dublin cheers all
<sladen> Burgundavia: not sure, probably
<Burgundavia> might be nice to have a UWN-only RSS feed
<jenda> Team, btw, what do you think about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/EditingPolicies ?
<jenda> And, should I add a line about Gobby?
<jenda> ^ needs review, etc.
<Burgundavia> the whole editing section needs a revamp
<Burgundavia> please edit as needed
<Burgundavia> I will review
<sladen> okay  http://fridge.ubuntu.com/uwn
<sladen> foobar
<sladen> maybe not
<jenda> I really gotta sleep. Night again. Thanks to all, good job 
<Burgundavia> cya
<theCore> sweet, libobby for emacs http://dev.technomancy.us/phil/wiki/ebby
<sladen> Burgundavia: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/uwn/feed
<sladen> Burgundavia: but if you go to  /uwn   it's giving the main feed in the url bar
* MenZa eats
<Burgundavia> sounds good
* somerville32 is back.
<sladen> Burgundavia: is UWN going out tonight?
<Burgundavia> sladen: yes, as soon I am done copy editing
<Burgundavia> the edgy apps stuff requires more work than it looked
<sladen> we should consider keeping it in gobby for much longer
<sladen> once it's in the wiki it's dead time when only one person can attact it
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> I thought we were further along the editing process than we were
<Burgundavia> what do you need to do?
<Burgundavia> sladen: page is yours if you need it
<sladen> Burgundavia: I don't need to, but I was going to link in some of the other fridge stuff if you think it's worth it
<sladen> Burgundavia: if you're happy with it, let it go
<Burgundavia> ajmitch said he would send an update to -devel on his SoC project in the next two hours, so I was going to wait for that until 03:00 UTC
* Cogito_ergo_sum- esta Ausente, Razon: ( regreso al rato... ) | Desde: ( Sunday, September 3, 006. 20:0:6 ) Xlack v.1
<elkbuntu> turn that crap off please Cogito_ergo_sum-
<nixternal> heh
<Burgundavia> elkbuntu: you can ask nicely
<Burgundavia> Cogito_ergo_sum: can you please turn off your music notification? it makes the logs noisier
<elkbuntu> Burgundavia, i had no idea whether it was away notification, media notification, blog post notification or whatever you could think to announce somewhere
<Burgundavia> oh wait, that was an away notification
<elkbuntu> glad you can tell :|
<Burgundavia> regardless, it all spam
<elkbuntu> yeah
<Burgundavia> elkbuntu: can you do a final check of UWN 12 to ctach any glaring error?
<elkbuntu> still on gobby?
<Burgundavia> no, on the wiki
<elkbuntu> yeah i figured when gobby wouldnt connect :P
<Burgundavia> server is down
<elkbuntu> Burgundavia, "Engadget and Slashdot reported on the Janus Project, a custom built"  <-- is something supposed to follow there?
<Burgundavia> oh, that should die
<elkbuntu> if your'e in edit.. the rss message jhas a typo
<Burgundavia> the no subscribe one?
<elkbuntu> "You can no subscribe to the Ubuntu Weekly News via RSS at:"
<elkbuntu> yeah
<Burgundavia> got that
<elkbuntu> looks fine to me then
<Burgundavia> ok, off it goes
<Burgundavia> I like to not hide
<Burgundavia> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-news/2006-September/000052.html <-- rather
<elkbuntu> Burgundavia, you didnt fix the typos?
<Burgundavia> elkbuntu: which typos? I thought I did
<elkbuntu> they're still in that email... the ones i pointed out
<Burgundavia> hmm, I did, but they didn't come through
<Burgundavia> that is odd
<elkbuntu> d'oh :(
<Burgundavia> meh, one little error is pretty minor
<elkbuntu> yeah
<Burgundavia> it is also near the bottom of the page
<elkbuntu> the engaget/slashdot thing is still in there though also
<Burgundavia> bugger. I did remove those
* elkbuntu larts the wiki
<Burgundavia> no, it looks to be a copy paste error
<Fujitsu_> Burgundavia, you here?
<Fujitsu_> That FIXME is still there >_<
<Burgundavia> I also check every email one last time before I send it through, in the spam filter on mailman
<Burgundavia> however, there is a bug that it only displays the first half or so
<Burgundavia> which means I couldn't see those bugs
<Burgundavia> Fujitsu_: yep, what do you need?
<Fujitsu_> Just informing you that the FIXME was left in UWN... Is this what you're talking about?
<Burgundavia> right, just got an email about that
* Burgundavia kicks himself
<Burgundavia> meh
* elkbuntu didnt note any fixme on the wiki...
<Fujitsu_> That was me emailing, Burgundavia :)
<elkbuntu> oh.. crap.. it was... sorry corey :(
<Burgundavia> I added them and forgot to grep for them before I sent
<Burgundavia> add it to the release checklist
<Fujitsu_> Was it you I saw asking for that wiki page this morning?
<Fujitsu_> I saw someone doing it...
<Burgundavia> no, asking for a gobby session
<Burgundavia> we were editing it as part of gobby and my machine borked on me
<Fujitsu_> Ah. Terrific.
<elkbuntu> the uwn is cursed
<Burgundavia> gobby is really great but a little fragile
<elkbuntu> the wiki dies for it and now gobby also :|
<Burgundavia> no, errors are made when releasing
<Burgundavia> even big news papers have a hard time with checking
<Fujitsu_> The wiki being silly wouldn't have helped.
<Burgundavia> Gaurdian anyone?
<Fujitsu_> Hahah.
<Fujitsu_> I am absolutely pedantic, so I'm available if you want to make sure it's perfect in future :P
* elkbuntu pokes SMH with a pointy stick
<poningru> arr
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-marketing:poningru] : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam | UWN #12 is out | Channel logs at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/
<poningru> it is 12 right?
<elkbuntu> yeah
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> plesae create a /ReleaseChecklist of the UbuntuWeeklyNews page
<Burgundavia> I am headed out to enjoy some theatre
<elkbuntu> cya corey
<adamant1988> hello all
<adamant1988> nixternal what's up?
<poningru> adios
<poningru> elkbuntu: you wanna work on that?
<elkbuntu> poningru, cant now.. waiting for something then gotta go do some frantic running around
* poningru helps elkbuntu run around
* Fujitsu_ trips elkbuntu over.
* Fujitsu_ cackles evilly.
<elkbuntu> :(
<nixternal> adamant1988: wasabi
<nixternal> yes i read the paper
* Fujitsu_ runs off to lunch, no more physics!
<nixternal> your distributor == current partners
<nixternal> plus, they aren't going to give mass amounts of CDs out...i can get 1000 cds and hand them out in less than an hour..but out of those 1000, i am willing to be 10 or less will even try it
<nixternal> so it can be a waste of money
<adamant1988> nixternal: that's why you make it the distributors job to follow up on it
<nixternal> right now, they are concentrating on the "community" more than anything else, so anything "official" with canonical probably isn't going to happen, or wouldn't happen for a while
<adamant1988> yeah, I suppose.
<nixternal> adamant1988: thats how it is now though
<adamant1988> It was just a shot in the dark.
<nixternal> i can make an order, and have them here in a week
<nixternal> create and entity and become a partner...granted there isn't much benefit, except for the fact you are first in line for CDs
<nixternal> and you get pimped on Ubuntu.com
<adamant1988> are you an actual partner?
<nixternal> don't have to be...i am an official loco
<nixternal> well im not...Ubuntu Chicago is..and I am the team lead, so i can fire up and email and place an order
<adamant1988> Ah, so being an official loco gives you these privileges?
<nixternal> but everytime i order, i like them to the reason why i need so many..like Ubuntu Chicago is going to be doing a "Sidewalk Tech Days" with the FREE GEEK project in the enext few weeks
<nixternal> it gives you some priviledges yes
<poningru> nixternal: wanna make a translation team? locale HO_en, we will convert ubuntu into ghettonese
<nixternal> hahaha
<nixternal> i can speak Chicago Southside
<Fujitsu> :O
<nixternal> tree instead of three, utes instead of youths *just like my cousin vinny*
<poningru> :)
<poningru> it was rob I believe was talking about it jokingly
<poningru> so all props go to him
<poningru> about ff
<MitchM> elkbuntu: ping
<elkbuntu> MitchM_, pingpong
<jenda> Burgundavia: "You can find more information
<jenda> at FIXME (location of wiki page that talks about how to test
<jenda> dapper-proposed)"
<jenda> oops 
<elkbuntu> jenda, he knows
<jenda> ok
<elkbuntu> his copy-paste betrayed him
<Madpilot> so part of the UWN was actually done in Gobby to provide a relevant screenshot? Cool
<jenda> Happens.
<jenda> Madpilot: actually, almost all of it was.
<elkbuntu> o.O evil newspaper hasnt published the article yet :(
<jenda> aww
<jenda> We will wait :)
<elkbuntu> but but but.. i waaaaaant it noooowwww :(
* jenda hugs elkbuntu ;)
<elkbuntu> :)
* poningru totally didnt get any of that
<Madpilot> poningru, elkbuntu is a media celebrity now
<elkbuntu> not yet im not.. they havent published it yet
<poningru> arr?
<elkbuntu> i think steve urwin has taken my spotlight
<poningru> how come I didnt hear about this??
* poningru asks elkbuntu for her autograph
<elkbuntu> 'who gives a stuff about technology, some stingray killed the crocodile hunter, crikey!'
<jenda> BTW, I can't find the wikipage we missed in the UWN - perhaps there is none such.
* jenda has to go.
<Burgundavia> ompaul, sladen: please add your thoughts to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/EditingPolicies and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/ReleaseChecklist
<jenda> Burgundavia: how about merging the Editing Policies and the Checklist?
<jenda> would make more sense to me, I think.
<jenda> elkbuntu: Is it out yet? ;)
<elkbuntu> no :(
<elkbuntu> i think the media attention was focussed squarely elsewhere today
<jenda> Where's that? (Haven't been 'in' much)
* Kamping_Kaiser thinks we dont need to think that
<Kamping_Kaiser> jenda, steve erwin (popular guy on tv here) and colin thealy (sp) died
<jenda> ah...
<jenda> Accident?
<elkbuntu> the crocodile hunter and some author
<elkbuntu> first yes, second age
<Kamping_Kaiser> erwin? (note: i dont like him) being stupid... stinging wiht sting rays
<jenda> Sorry to hear.
<Kamping_Kaiser> *swimimng with
<elkbuntu> from what i've heard... he was filming stingrays or something and did his usual antics and the ray retaliated ;)
<jenda> that sucks
<Kamping_Kaiser> its not the first time stuffs retaliated., just the first time he died from it :)
<elkbuntu> yeah
<jenda> elkbuntu, Kamping_Kaiser, what do you think about shipping Ubuntu Posters?
<elkbuntu> what sort of price are you looking at?
<Kamping_Kaiser> jenda, where?
<jenda> It looks like $0.80 per poster rock-bottom
<jenda> But that's if I order 500 pcs
<jenda> Kamping_Kaiser: anywhere :) I'm global.
<jenda> If I order 200, the price would be $1.50 apiece.
<elkbuntu> that's US, right?
<jenda> The shipping is about $3 worldwide.
<jenda> elkbuntu: nope, Czech Republic, shipping anywhere - err.. yes, USD
<Kamping_Kaiser> $3 for a decent poster is ok. (ok? good?)
<elkbuntu> for shpping.. then $1.50 a piece for the actual poster
<elkbuntu> what size are these again, jenda? A3?
<Kamping_Kaiser> 1.50usa=3aus
<Kamping_Kaiser> (or close enough)
<jenda> elkbuntu: a little bigger
<Kamping_Kaiser> what is on them? the circle of friends?
<jenda> Kamping_Kaiser: my sources tell me $1.5 USD = $2 AUD (xe.com)
<elkbuntu> not really, Kamping_Kaiser, 1.50 USD = 1.94655 AUD
<elkbuntu> according to xe.com
<jenda> yeppers
<Kamping_Kaiser> wow. since when have we been doing that well.
* Kamping_Kaiser starts buying US products
<Kamping_Kaiser> (or not)
<elkbuntu> since a while now
<jenda> so for one poster, an aussie would pay me $6 AUD (4+2) ;)
<jenda> But it would be less for more, of course.
<jenda> Kamping_Kaiser: the design is not ready yet.
<elkbuntu> well.. you do it by per-poster then shipment for the batch added on
<jenda> oh, and that is the _top_ price there - we could go down to half of that, maybe.
<Kamping_Kaiser> i'd be interested
<sladen> ooops there was a FIXME in the UWN that went out
<jenda> sladen: yep :)
<jenda> The thing is I'd have to sell over 300 to be even.
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol. yeh, someone in -doc noticed as soon as it was sent ;)
<elkbuntu> sladen, yes, future uwns will be stringently audited
<Kamping_Kaiser> time for the .1 update ;)
<jenda> sladen: see Burgundavia's ping above.
<elkbuntu> jenda, i personally would probably get 2. lugs would probably get a dozen
<elkbuntu> actually, i'd get 3 and stick one on my wall :P
<jenda> :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> i could get a stack of intrest together, esp for $2-3
<elkbuntu> yeah
<Kamping_Kaiser> i can think of a safe half dozen, plus i'm sure a lot of -au would get 1/more
<elkbuntu> jenda, you're filling the gap of 'hmm i need a few posters, but i have no freaking idea of how to go about it and/or they want body-parts before they'll do small batches'
<elkbuntu> well, s/posters/$marketing-material/
<jenda> I'm thinking if it would be viable to send batches of 5 posters minimum... but then I could lose the users who only want one :(
<jenda> elkbuntu: I'm trying to :)
<elkbuntu> jenda, if they're willing to pay, send the 1
<jenda> Yes ma'm. Will do.
<Kamping_Kaiser> jenda, perhaps you can say 'you can get one, but its better value to get '3,4,5,6,76,7,etc'
<Kamping_Kaiser> becaue people will often buy more, just to get the value ;)
* jenda admires the way you sneaked 76 in there...
<elkbuntu> jenda, 2 would be a better minimum rather than as many as 5
<elkbuntu> lol
<Kamping_Kaiser> hehe
<elkbuntu> i anticipate i'll be sending those out soon.. /me goes to check email to see when they would have sent them
<jenda> elkbuntu: ok, i think I'll go with any number they ask, and do the math easy: $1 or $1.50 per poster + $3 shipping.
<elkbuntu> yeah
<elkbuntu> will they be sent rolled or flat?
<jenda> elkbuntu: perhaps more importantly, I'm trying to get others do the same - through that website.
<jenda> flat.
<jenda> The tubes are waaay too expensive.
<elkbuntu> speeeeaking of.. i should do some more on that, lol
<Kamping_Kaiser> flat?
<elkbuntu> jenda, if you use official ones, sure ;)
<jenda> Maybe for orders above 10 pcs.
<Kamping_Kaiser> o_0
<jenda> elkbuntu: as in - make my own?
<jenda> I would have to charge too much for that too :-D
<jenda> elkbuntu: there's no hurry.
<jenda> Anyway, I'm leaving _again_ in two days - for a week.
* Kamping_Kaiser wondres how yo u send somethign > a3 flat
<elkbuntu> jenda, lol, ghetto poster tubes wouldnt be good for international postage
<jenda> Kamping_Kaiser: it's >A3 because that's the size of the envelope.
* jenda goes ask in teh local ghetto
<elkbuntu> jenda, awwww.. why do you keep disappearing?
<jenda> elkbuntu: there's RL work in my country house to do :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> hehe
<Kamping_Kaiser> elkbuntu, hes a mover and shaker
<elkbuntu> with no internet access? how rude
<jenda> aaand, I went to an old family friend in east moravia before... relaxin' :-D (with a lot of RL work to do there too... such as chopping wood or cutting grass (real scythe!), sharpening knives and axes.)
<jenda> And before that it was a three week trip to Estonia - volunteer labour on a festival there.
<jenda> Come to speak of it - it's no wonder I'm out of cash :-D
<Kamping_Kaiser> hehe
* jenda wonders at how quick silbs was at replying to my email. It seems they aren't opposed to my activity at all, which is a relief.
<elkbuntu> of course they're not. all they've managed to do (no offense intended) for providing marketing materials to the average joe, is the stickers with the cds
<jenda> hehe - I still haven't bought enough of a strong glue to make it stick on the lid of my lappy.
<Kamping_Kaiser> night all, gl with it jenda, catch you son
<jenda> Night, daddy :-D
<adamant1988> Hello all
<elkbuntu> they didhttp://www.smh.com.au/news/technology/linux-wins-over-new-fans/2006/09/04/1157222061911.html
<elkbuntu> gah.. they did do it* http://www.smh.com.au/news/technology/linux-wins-over-new-fans/2006/09/04/1157222061911.html
<jenda> elkbuntu: why don't i see your name anywhere in there?
<jenda> :)
<jenda> Hello adamant1988
<elkbuntu> you should.. one of the later paragraphs
<elkbuntu> i only got a little mention :(
<adamant1988> hey jenda
<jenda> aww
<jenda> I didn't really read it :) but I'll skim through.
<jenda> Found it. It's short, but sweet ;)
<jenda> And don't forget that people always remember the last part of a conversation (article in this case)
<adamant1988> speaking of reading </shameless_plug>
<jenda> I know, adamant1988 - it's on my todo list
<jenda> But I'm really encumbered with 1) DIY marketing 2) Spreadubuntu 3) You wouldn't believe: RL
<adamant1988> Haha, I understand the RL part.
<adamant1988> I'm having this huge todo with my significant other because she's under the impression that I want to cheat on her
<adamant1988> fun huh?
<jenda> Whoa - the printer updates me: $0.63 per poster!!!
<jenda> elkbuntu: ^
<elkbuntu> wow, awesome
<elkbuntu> that will probably change again once the design is decided on though
<jenda> That's one hell of a price.
<jenda> No, the price will stay independent on design.
<jenda> and on number, in fact.
<jenda> He said - 6900 CZK if above 500, 6100 if below 500
<elkbuntu> wow
<elkbuntu> MitchM_ ping?
<Whit3Rabbit__> elkbuntu you around?
<elkbuntu> yeah
<elkbuntu> Whit3Rabbit__, yeah im here
<MitcmM> =P
<MitcmM> figure your DNS stuff out?
<elkbuntu> did you get my email tonight?
<elkbuntu> the dns stuff is figured but images dont work cos of permission errors
<elkbuntu> try go to http://ubuntucounter.org/img/
<MitcmM> hm.
<MitcmM> Invalid User
<MitcmM> What permision do you need?
<elkbuntu> huh? you're seeing the image?
<elkbuntu> Forbidden
<elkbuntu> You don't have permission to access /ubuntucounter.org/img/ on this server.
<elkbuntu> Apache/2.0.55 (Ubuntu) PHP/5.1.2 Server at 64.187.64.115 Port 80
<elkbuntu> is what i and everyone else sees
<nixternal> yup
<MitcmM> hmm i see ubuntu counter Invliad #
<MitcmM> invalid #
<nixternal> 755 the /img dir
<MitcmM> affirm
<MitcmM> done.
<MitcmM> same thing for me.
<MitcmM> Invalid #
<elkbuntu> still forbidden for me
<MitcmM> http://ubuntucounter.org/img/ubuntu-user.php
<MitcmM> points to 64.187.64.115 for you?
<nixternal> ahhh
<MitcmM> DNS updated yet?
<elkbuntu> well that image works.. but the base dir does not
<MitcmM> try 64.187.65.115/ubuntucounter.org/img/
<MitcmM> I have indexes turned off by default; so if a folder does not have an index.html/php file it will give you a forbidden error...
<MitcmM> let me turn on indexes for ubuntucoutner...
<MitcmM> one second
<nixternal> no, the base directory won't work like that because the directory is populated
<nixternal> with .html or .php files
<nixternal> and/or .htaccess is setup for the dir
<MitcmM> ok; so what can't you view in the base dir?
<nixternal> unless is was just images, no
<nixternal> http://64.187.64.115/ubuntucounter.org/img/ubuntu-user2.php?user=822
<nixternal> hrmmm
<MitcmM> worked for me.
<elkbuntu> you wouldnt have hotlinking off would you?
<elkbuntu> somehow, however the hell that's done
<MitcmM> it should followsymliks...
<MitcmM> let me make sure
<MitcmM> its good.
<nixternal> http://ubuntucounter.org/img/ubuntu-user2.php?user=822
<nixternal> it works!
<MitcmM> works ...
<MitcmM> ubuntucounter.org points to what IP for you elkbuntu?
<nixternal> http://ubuntucounter.org/img/ubuntu-user.php?user=822
<nixternal> it works ;)
<MitcmM> (never didnt work for me... very strange)
<elkbuntu> MitchM, it's pointing to the right place
<MitcmM> affirm
<MitcmM> let me grep my logs
<elkbuntu> the images are still not showing up on people's sites..
<MitcmM> other peoples sites could still be using old DNS values...
<MitcmM> it takes up to 24 hours for all of that stuff to cycle...
<MitcmM> does it work for you now?
<elkbuntu> um..other people's dns affects what i see when i view the site?
<MitcmM> no.
<MitcmM> touche...
<elkbuntu> im looking at for instance.. the lack of button on geekosophical.net and on blogsofwar.com etc etc
<MitcmM> didnt know _you_ were looking at other sites
<MitcmM> ah ok.
<MitcmM> so does http://ubuntucounter.org/img/ubuntu-user.php?user=822
<MitcmM> still not work for you?
<MitcmM> http://ubuntucounter.geekosophical.net/img/ubuntu-blogger.php?user=51
<elkbuntu> it works if i view like that yes, but not in situ in sites :|
<elkbuntu> that redirect was working before the .org redirect
<MitcmM> ping ubuntucounter.geekosophical.net
<MitcmM> PING ubuntucounter.geekosophical.net (72.29.87.109) 56(84) bytes of data.
<elkbuntu> what?
<MitcmM> 72.29.87.109 != 64.187.64.115
<elkbuntu> wtf is going on?
<MitcmM> DNS ^.^
<elkbuntu> go to the subdomain, it goes to the right site
<MitcmM> that is because someone is forwarding ubuntucounter.geekosophical.net to ubuntucounter.org
<MitcmM> using a meta refresh
<MitcmM> which means that hard links to ubuntucounter.geekosophical.net/img/ will not work
<MitcmM> unless ubuntucounter.geekosophical.net is pointed to 64.187.64.115
<MitcmM> so try and get geekosophical.net to point their subdomain to 64.187.64.115 and I will set it up on my server to accept that as an alias for Ubuntucounter.org
<MitchM> then everything works; and elkbuntu is happy
<elkbuntu> geekosophical.net is my domain
<MitchM> oh perfect!
<elkbuntu> however, i only have cpanel to work with for it
<MitchM> in dns set an A name record for ubuntucounter.geekosophical.net to point to 64.187.64.115
<MitchM> and we will get everything fixed right up =)
<elkbuntu> have you ever used cpanel? you dont get that sort of control
<MitchM> hmm.. I have with all the hosting providers I've used.
<MitchM> :-(
<MitchM> or had the "luck" to use...
<elkbuntu> all i can do is redirects
<MitchM> no "total dns control" buttons?
<elkbuntu> nope
<elkbuntu> that's WHM
<elkbuntu> i dont have that for this domain
<MitchM> well; can you change your nameserver?
<elkbuntu> i guess i can temporarily sacrifice the blog
<MitchM> :-(
<elkbuntu> sec.. let me try something
<MitchM> k
<MitchM> yahoo = best cpanel
<elkbuntu> i might be able to set the domain back to namecheap and mess stuff around from there
<MitchM> sounds like its worth a try...
<elkbuntu> yeah
<MitchM> also sounds like grade A hosting.
* MitchM rolls eyes.
<MitchM> http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/lookup.ch?name=ubuntucounter.org&type=A
<MitchM> thats looks awful.
<MitchM> 5 different ip responses for the same domain.
<MitchM> what are these guys doing?
<nixternal> haha
<MitchM> honestly; look at that nixternal.
* MitchM nods head in shame.
<MitchM> no wounder your angry with these guys..
<elkbuntu> its the registrar dns.. they let you use up to 5 non-them nameservers.. so i guess they have 5 nameservers
<MitchM> which all point to the _wrong_ ip
<MitchM> only use 1.. or 2 nameservers at the most.
<MitchM> otherwise its just a mess :-)
<nixternal> dude, they are using the howtoforge.net stuff...that is where the dns1.name-services.com. comes from...one of their old bind articles
<nixternal> ahh..so they leave the default dns* in there
<nixternal> that isn't good
* MitchM laughs.
<MitchM> i mean... wow.
<nixternal> and each one of theose has an ip
<MitchM> yeah.
<MitchM> none which are mine.
<MitchM> or the current server that is hosting ubuntucounter.org
<MitchM> http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/lookup.ch?name=somaticgaming.com&type=A
<MitchM> that is another site that's hosted on that server...
<MitchM> look at how sleek and pretty that entry is.
<elkbuntu> what happens if that nameserver goes down though?
<MitchM> you can use 2... nameservers.
<MitchM> for redundancy.
<MitchM> but 5 nameservers pointing in different directions = big jumbled DNS mess.
<MitchM> look at http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/lookup.ch?name=somaticgaming.com&type=A
<MitchM> and then look at your ubuntucounter.org entry
<Burgundavia> jenda: hmm, interesting idea
<jenda> Burgundavia: check the guidelines, I think they cover both now.
<Burgundavia> sounds good
<MitchM> jenda: greetings
<jenda> Hello MitchM :)
<MitchM> jenda: any idea when you will get the next shipment of stickers out?
<MitchM> =)
<jenda> umm...
<jenda> :)
<MitchM> hehe.
<jenda> You're out of yours already?
<jenda> or they didn't arrive yet?
<jenda> (me has a look in the papers...)
<MitchM> oh.. you already sent the second one?
<jenda> You ordered twice?
<MitchM> ah ha.
<jenda> damn... I'm sorry...
<MitchM> we talked briefly ...
<jenda> I must have missed that :(
<MitchM> :-)
* MitchM twists toe in sand... 
<MitchM> yeah im out.
<MitchM> 50?
<MitchM> write me down for the next?
<jenda> Lemme have a look...
<elkbuntu> meh.. anyway, i've pointed the subdomain via the registrar
<MitchM> k
<jenda> I'll definitely have you written down, that's for sure.
* MitchM wait sfor dns to update
<jenda> The thing is - I'm not sure if I'll have the cash very soon for a next batch...
<MitchM> k.
<MitchM> i can paypal you.
<jenda> You'll paypal me about 1/20th of the price, and i can't withdraw from there, but sure :-D
<MitchM> lol.
<MitchM> :-)
<MitchM> i'll mail you some good ol
<MitchM>  US dollars.
<jenda> You're not the only one, though. There have been other demands, so perhaps I'll print the stickers and then save up a bit till I do the posters
<MitchM> ok cool
<jenda> MitchM: please don't :-D I don't trust the PO. One shipment of 100 CZK has already been lost in this business - and I'll soon move my paypal to CZ, and be able to withdraw
* MitchM shakes his fist at the postman
<jenda> yeah... but that's barable, and besides the sender is willing to send again.
<MitchM> :-)
<MitchM> thats good
<jenda> One thing that is a little less pleasant is a Danish 'customer' who sent money, and I sent stickers, and neither seems to have arrived... yet?
<MenZa> :o
<MitchM> :-
<MitchM> (
<jenda> Hmm... yeah, it seems like I'll have to order another batch. It's not that bad - about $100 for the lot, and I should get it back.
<jenda> MitchM, I'll soon have MenZa's stickers available too :)
<MitchM> oh goodies.
<jenda> In fact, if you ask nicely, MenZa might even send them to you directly...
* MitchM taps Menza on the shoulder
<MenZa> Sure, why not?
<MenZa> menza@menza.org
<MitchM> :-)
<MenZa> address, quantity
<jenda> But since I already bought them, you should pay _meee_ :)
<MitchM> :-P
<jenda> MenZa: how many do you have left?
<MenZa> jenda: most of them
<MitchM> how much?
<MitchM> are they the larger 2x3 stickers?
<MenZa> Handle payment with jenda, I'll just send them
<MenZa> I forgot the dimensions.
<MitchM> or the same size as the ones you sent me jenda?
<MitchM> hm, k.
<jenda> I already have about 110 preordered here, but the rest, you can send to MitchM :-D
<MitchM> how much for 50?
<jenda> Let's see.
<jenda> MenZa: You'd prolly have 250 left, right?
<MenZa> jenda: 280, rather
<MenZa> something like that
<jenda> ok
<jenda> I payed you $25 for the lot
<MitchM> 5$?
<MitchM> 10$?
<MenZa> jenda: I'll handle shipment and stuff on this one; you just accept payment :)
<jenda> MitchM: that gives me less than $5
<MitchM> ?
<jenda> MenZa: I'll paypal you a dollar for the shipping?
<MenZa> jenda: nevermind me :)
<MenZa> jenda: I have a ton of stamps
<jenda> 4.464285714
<jenda> MitchM: that's the price for you ;)
<MitchM> lmao...
<jenda> MenZa: I'll invite you for a beer once you're in Prague.
<MitchM> I _will_ send you that much so watch it :-)
<MenZa> No beers.
<MenZa> A coke will do though :)
<jenda> darn
<jenda> I'll invite you for a _coke_ then.
<MitchM> coke and rum?
<MenZa> I don't mind beer myself, but my teachers are a bit strict when it comes to that.
<MitchM> :-)
<jenda> MitchM: psht!
<jenda> he shouldn't have known...
<jenda> MitchM: send me $5 and it'll pay for the coke too.
<jenda> :-D
<MenZa> lol
<jenda> well, half the coke :-D
<MitchM> lol.
<jenda> Err, just so you know before you order, they're different
<MitchM> so I understand
<MitchM> larger too
<MitchM> ?
<jenda> lemme link
<MitchM> affirm
<jenda> http://flickr.com/photos/menza/190242006/
<MenZa> no, small.
<MitchM> =)
<MenZa> about the size of your average 'Designed for WinXP' sticker.
<MitchM> oh sweet.
<MitchM> I like those _a lot_
<MenZa> Why thank you
<MenZa> :D
<MitchM> larger sticker top and right included?
<MitchM> or just the smaller?
<jenda> ust the little :)
<jenda> or... MenZa?
<MenZa> I can include a large one, if jenda won't mind
<MenZa> I've packed those for him, but sure
* jenda had no clue i bought those off you too :-D
<MenZa> jenda: ALL Ubuntu prints I have :)
<jenda> that's cool ;)
<MitchM> oh yes... please include one or two :-D
<MitchM> unless you have to unpack
<MitchM> dont bother
<MenZa> not unpack.
<MenZa> I'll include a few goodies.
<MitchM> :-)
<jenda> Make that $5.05, then, MitchM. Sorry, business is business.
<MitchM> lol.
<MenZa> :D
* jenda rolls off the chair...
<MitchM> lmao.
<MitchM> your terrible.
<MitchM> after the Oddles of money I sent you last time...
<MitchM> :-P
<jenda> exactly - you've prepaid premium customer service for a lifetime - plus you offered to host the site. I can't possibly hope to make a profit on you :-D
<MitchM> lol.
<jenda> Besides, I'll have to withdraw my savings to pay for the next batch or posters anyway, so a buck or two doesn't make a difference.
<MitchM> hopefully your DNS for your domain functions better than elkbuntu's
* MitchM shakes head.
<MitchM> that's going to take a few days to clear up I think....
<jenda> aaand you're hosting the counter too?
<MitchM> yup.
<MitchM> but it _is_ a mess right now :-)
<MitchM> instead of pointing DNS right to my server... there are META refreshes that repoint to 64.187.64.115/ubuntucounter.org
<MitchM> so images are not working etc etc
<MitchM> so on and so forth
<MitchM> no fault of melissa's
<jenda> wow, that sounds bad.
<jenda> In any case, you should be getting stickers for free :)
<MitchM> woo hoo..
<MitchM> i'll send you money latter today.
<jenda> cool
<MitchM> off to do more work stuff
<jenda> BTW, the difference between my approach to money before and now is that before I wasn't yet sure that my expenses will be covered. Now all I get is already extra, and will be used for batch #2 or teh posters (whichever comes first)
<MitchM> :-)
* MitchM is away.
<jenda> It's funny how people tend to respond messages even minutes after they 'left'...
<XiXaQ> Listen, I have a great idea -- I think.
<jenda> Hello XiXaQ
* jenda listens
<XiXaQ> there are some requirements which would have to be overcome, but I think it should be possible.
<MenZa> 50, MitchM?!
<jenda> MenZa: He's away, remember?
<MenZa> That's a big request, 50 stickers.
<jenda> MenZa: I've sent 3 packs of 100 :)
<MenZa> nice
<MenZa> so 50 is fine with you?
<jenda> with me? sure :)
<XiXaQ> we make a video. It starts with a black screen with Bobby McFerrin's Don't worry, be happy. Then some white text appears, maybe something like, Alexandria was burnt to the grownd, let's not make the same mistake twice. Then we show some people dancing to the rythm of the music, holding hands in a circle like in the Ubuntu logo.
<XiXaQ> then the Camera views it from the side, then rises up until it's directly over the people dancing. In the middle is the Ubuntu logo.. Ubuntu -- Don't worry.
<jenda> We can't use "Don't worry" because, it's copyrighted... unless we go the same way as stealthisfilm.com
* jenda donated $3 to stealthisfilm :-D
<XiXaQ> yes, but it's McFerrins song. I'm almost certain he would support the filosophy.
* jenda doesn't understand the part with Alexandria...
<MenZa> jenda: alright, I'm gonna start packing them
<jenda> well, you can try - I'm not sure it's him who decides.
<jenda> MenZa: thanks. You got the coke right here.
<XiXaQ> jenda, read up on your history :) It was a grand library in the old world that contained all the knowledge in the world. It was burned by conquerors. One of the sadest days in human history.
<jenda> XiXaQ: I know _that_, but what does it have to do with Ubuntu?
<jenda> (btw, join ##history ;) )
<jenda> It's my channel
<XiXaQ> jenda, the first thing you have to have if you're trying to assemble knowledge and culture, is communication. What is Ubuntu if not a battle for freedom of mind, art, culture and speech?
<jenda> That's quite close to an aspect of what Ubuntu is.
<MenZa> jenda: this stack is becoming ridiculously small; I'm printing a bunch more for you--free of charge.
<jenda> OMG
<jenda> Really?
<MenZa> yeah
<MenZa> a few hundred more
<MenZa> you deserve them :)
<jenda> hmm... appreciated, very. I will sell them, and use the cash to fund the posters.
<MenZa> yup
<MenZa> I don't want you to fuck up all your savings
* jenda bows down to MenZa
<XiXaQ> no response to my grandiose idea? :)
<jenda> Hehe, I still believe I'll gain it all back, MenZa :-)
<MenZa> I'm shipping MitchM a FSM bumpersticker ;)
<jenda> :)
<jenda> XiXaQ: I'm still thinking...
<jenda> umm...
<jenda> The idea seems quite good. But:
<XiXaQ> I wish I could some you my vision. :)
<jenda> Who will make the video? How?
<XiXaQ> it may not be so hard.
<jenda> johnlittle: you might be a more appropriate person to answer this
<jenda> XiXaQ: johnlittle runs ubuntuvideo.com . He will even reward $100 to the person who creates the best Ubuntu video. If that's still up...
<XiXaQ> jenda, do you remember which famous actor played in the video? I can see his face before me, but I cannot remember his name. He played in a movie which name I also cannot remember, but where he was a funny doctor healing patients with humour.
<jenda> XiXaQ: wait... which video?
<XiXaQ> jenda, don't worry, be happy.
<XiXaQ> he's a friend of McFerrin'
<jenda> Aha - I don't remember, as i never knew.
<jenda> Wikipedia is a good bet.
<XiXaQ> I don't think they'll list mcFerrins friends, but I'll give it a go.
<MenZa> was wondering jenda
<MenZa> Have I actually sent you any stickers before, so you know what they're like?
<jenda> Please, go on wondering, I don't mind ;)
<jenda> hehe
<jenda> No, you haven't.
<jenda> I have no clue.
<MenZa> Hand me your address, I'll send a few samples :D
<XiXaQ> listen, the actor I'm talking about also played in a movie where he pretended to be a woman in order to socialise with his children.... Doesn't anyone know who I'm talking about? He's _famous_.
<Burgundavia> ha! Linspire was caught trying to rig the DistroWatch results by setting their browser homepage to the Freespire page at Distrowatch
<jenda> @lart Linspire
* jenda has always hated it.
<MitchM> ooh nice!
<Burgundavia> http://forum.freespire.org/showthread.php?t=1629
<jenda> MitchM: you're supposed to be away... ;)
<Burgundavia> apparently it was a "mistake"
<MitchM> i know =)... i am.
<jenda> It's funny how Linspire was first ditched by MS, not allowed to call itself Lindows, and then by Linus, not allowed to be called Linux :)
<MenZa> ...this calls for double postage ;)
<Burgundavia> they still advertise as "the worlds easiest Desktop linux"
<jenda> Burgundavia: don't tell me you read their forum regularly....
<jenda> ...please.
<Burgundavia> no, the link was on Distrowatch
<jenda> whew
<Flannel> XiXaQ: robin Williams
<XiXaQ> thanks. :)
<jenda> Ah, Robin Williams... I was once (May 24) browsing the deaths on 25 May in Wikipedia... and he was written down for 2006. Corrected the vandalism, but watched the news ;)
<XiXaQ> Grandiose Ubuntu Day, or GUD for short. :)
<XiXaQ> oh, that doesn't mean anything to you, does it? :) In norwegian, that means GOD.
<jenda> XiXaQ: aha ;)
<jenda> Reminds me of Ubuntu Christian edition
<jenda> apt-get install gnuchrist
<jenda> Permission denied
<jenda> OTOH, I suppose the distro is as useful as many people use it.
<MenZa> MitchM: care to drop jenda a few more bucks? Postage was a lot more than I expected, but at least your letter's secure and rather bulgy.
<jenda> ooh
<jenda> MenZa: how much was it? (you can PM, if you wish)
<MenZa> $4,5 roughly
<XiXaQ> do not assosiate Ubuntu with any particular religion. That's, to me at least, Ubuntu Blasphemy.
<jenda> excuse me for a second...
* mode/#ubuntu-marketing [+o jenda]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-marketing [-o jenda]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-marketing [+o jenda]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-marketing [+b *!*@ubuntu/member/ompaul!##windows]  by jenda
* mode/#ubuntu-marketing [-o jenda]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-marketing [-b *!*@ubuntu/member/ompaul!##windows]  by ChanServ
<XiXaQ> what? What are these weird hostmasks?
<MenZa> lol jenda
<jenda> XiXaQ: they are ubuntu member hostmask. The banning was just a play between ompaul and me ;)
<XiXaQ> *!*@ubuntu/member/ompaul!##windows <-- That is not a normal IRC hostmask.
<ompaul> he tought he could forward me
<ompaul> I am unforwardable
<ompaul> :)
<XiXaQ> forward!?
<ompaul> XiXaQ, the joke is me in windows ...
<XiXaQ> but is # even allowed in a host?
<ompaul> you can remove a user from here to another channel as long as that channel is in use
<jenda> XiXaQ: that's not part of the hostmask, it's part of the ban command.
<ompaul> the ! indicates a forward - the ##windows is where he tried to send me
<jenda> If I did that to a 'normal' mortal, they would end up in ##windows instead ;)
<XiXaQ> this is a freenode makeup?
<ompaul> jenda, I am human :p just a little different :)
<ompaul> XiXaQ, it is a freenode tool
<XiXaQ> not spesified in any protocol?
* XiXaQ is upset because it ruins his IRC client.
<TomWitko_> Hello all
<ompaul> XiXaQ, the full list of what you can do are on www.freenode.net - it is available to anyone to read up and use
<ompaul> TomWitko_, hi there
<XiXaQ> ompaul, but it's not an official extension to the IRC protocol, is it?
<ompaul> I don't know it is just an arguement that is passed to the ban so as for irc and protocols I have no idea (I never bothered to research them)
<TomWitko_> He he it took me a day and a half to get Cxhat irc to connect to the chat
<TomWitko_> Found out if you enter irc.freenode.net that it tryes to connect to newserver/number
<XiXaQ> heh, try to dns "ubuntu/member/ompaul"
<TomWitko_> anyways had to edit the irc.freenode.net entry to change it to irc.freenode.net
<ompaul> XiXaQ, stops ddos
<ompaul> on people
<ompaul> useful stuff
<ompaul> anyway this is all offtopic to marketing join us in #ubuntu-offtopic for the offtopic discussions and general playground
<ompaul> for want of a set of words that define that place
<XiXaQ> ... Haven't seen anything on-topic here yet. :)
<ompaul> hehe
<ompaul> you missed last night as we rushed UWN out the door
<XiXaQ> please expand UWN?
<ompaul> Ubuntu Weekly News
<TomWitko_> Anyways I logged on to possibly braindump on an idea for a 6.06 LTS long term magazine with a install CD
<XiXaQ> oh.. Where do I find that?
<jenda> TomWitko_: the best way to do such a thing is post to the mailing list.
<TomWitko_> k
<jenda> Here you'll just run into a bunch of overtired marketeers ;)
<ompaul> XiXaQ, I will have a url in a moment (I never remember it)
<ompaul> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue12
<XiXaQ> oh, I love to make up phrases. There are alot of things I have yet to discover, though I have already discovered enough -- Ubuntu
<TomWitko_> is the mai dump still ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com
<ompaul> Burgundavia, the wiki is behaving badly are those who should be aware of it - it is dog slow
<jenda> TomWitko_: yep
<TomWitko_> even the forum is suffering today
<Burgundavia> yes, noticed that
<ompaul> sudo make me a sandwich
<ompaul> it is just brilliant
<XiXaQ> sudo is brilliant. no wonder MS wanted it.
<Burgundavia> noticed Freespire does sudo
<Burgundavia> by they do sudo without a password
<ompaul> Burgundavia, like a live cd?
<Burgundavia> no, on installed desktops
<jenda> whoa
<jenda> (but _like_ the Ubuntu liveCD)
<ompaul> Burgundavia, have they stopped user 1 from running as root?
<jenda> BTW, I think that fact isn't well enough documented. I didn't know till dapper :-D
<Burgundavia> yes, by replacing it with this sudo stuff
<Burgundavia> not much better, tbh
<ompaul> is gobby running?
<jenda> That sounds very insecure to me...
<jenda> (but OT)
<Burgundavia> my gobby session? no, we are currently editing on the wiki
<jenda> (OK, not OT anymore if you want to UWN-ize it)
<XiXaQ> is there any installation remote assistance group?
<ompaul> okay
<ompaul> ?
<Burgundavia> gobby stuff is only for sprints
<ompaul> XiXaQ, that question flew over my head into a wall
<XiXaQ> ompaul, whenever anyone tries to install Ubuntu, there should be experts to help them. There will be alot of first installs there.
<ompaul> #ubuntu
<XiXaQ> no... Way to crowded.
<ompaul> #ubuntu-classroom if someone is really stuck in #ubuntu
<XiXaQ> yes, but that's not right either.
<ompaul> XiXaQ, what are you actually looking for?
<ompaul> XiXaQ, first install is 4 or 5 clicks and it is done
<ompaul> enter very little data and bing
<ompaul> o
<XiXaQ> You put the cd in the tray, reboot the computer, press the Install icon.. If the computer is connected to the internet, display a Request Help button. There is an IRC channel with dedicated helpers regarding the installation process. The user types a question, a helper responds.
<Burgundavia> interesting idea
<Burgundavia> I like it
<jenda> ompaul: actually, I think we should break #ubuntu up into sections too
<ompaul> jenda, won't work
<jenda> ompaul: why?
<ompaul> because people will not rate themselves accurately
<XiXaQ> ompaul, please elaborate.
<jenda> aha...
<ompaul> and I have to ask quesitons as much as some new users now and again
<jenda> ompaul: have you seen the !es, !fr, !de factoids?
<ompaul> how do you spell question
<jenda> that way ;)
<ompaul> jenda, I am responsible for !il !sa !cn and a few others
<XiXaQ> We should have our own servers. With different channels for different topics. Having _one_ channel for thousands of people just doesn't cut it.
<jenda> of course
<ompaul> XiXaQ, we have about 164 channels on this server
<jenda> 'about' ;)
<XiXaQ> when you join Ubuntu, if only running the cd as a demo, you should be welcomed by serviceminded people.
<ompaul> jenda, + or - 10
<jenda> ok.
<mindspin> XiXaQ: if you open konversation for example, the live cd leads you here
<mindspin> It could be a benefit if its mentioned on the desktop/startpage/example section
<ompaul> XiXaQ, in a volenteer community someone with a high level of experience would burn out very quickly - beginner questions are hardest - best if there was a "top twenty" web page on page one
<XiXaQ> The avarage user should be able to connect to IRC, join the main channel, ask a reasonable question and parse the solution. However, more and more people aren't accustomed to IRC, and they aren't used to channels with alot of activity.
<ompaul> XiXaQ, I concur, however, the issue is this
<ompaul> I choose my questions and people I help
<ompaul> I tend to do a couple of low level ones and a few really nasty ones
<ompaul> I need a challenge
<XiXaQ> ompaul, I have been an operator in several mIRC help channels when I was younger. Do you think we got the same questions over and over? Yes, we did. But that didn't matter. We knew why we were there. Ubuntu should inspire even more effort.
<ompaul> hehe
<Flannel> XiXaQ: we have factoids for most of those questions, I don't see why one main channel is a problem
<ompaul> back in a moment - I really have to take care of something here
<XiXaQ> #mIRC: "<newbie> How do I download crack for windows xx?"
<ompaul> you don't use crack it is addictive we keep that for beta software, please look here !better-way
<XiXaQ> Flannel, factoids? Are we Ubuntu for the semi-advanced computer user, or Ubuntu for Human Beings? We cannot assume anything.
<Flannel> XiXaQ: what?
<XiXaQ> ompaul, it was a mIRC channel... :) There were all kinds of questions. Very few were related to mIRc.
<Flannel> XiXaQ: when ubotu messages you and gives you, in english, a sentence with a description and a link... how is that not intuitive?
<XiXaQ> Flannel, you assume too much.
<Flannel> XiXaQ: I assume that the people can read... that's about it.
<Flannel> Oh, and they have a webbrowser
<mindspin> and btw an  working internet connection...
<Flannel> They're on IRC, that's a safe assumption ;)
<XiXaQ> well, I don't think it's a good solution. Hmm. It's a good solution for people like me. For people like my older brother, it's not.
<ompaul> XiXaQ, I have been on irc helping for the last 12 years or so
<Flannel> XiXaQ: What makes you think its not a good solution?  any specifics? recommendations?
<XiXaQ> ompaul, then you know that a newbie isn't always able to understand buisy irc addressing.
<Flannel> XiXaQ: ubotu queries you with it
<XiXaQ> yes. A simple IRC GUI specially designed as a Welcome To Ubuntu solution. There are two kinds of users, helpers and "customers".
<XiXaQ> Flannel, listen. I understand what you're saying. I just don't think that a newbie needs to talk to a robot.
<XiXaQ> We could throw the book at newbies, like Microsoft does. Or we could be there when the user boots, greeting him/her, answering questions, and generally being there.
<ompaul> XiXaQ, the thing is they can take one step at a time instruction
<XiXaQ> yes, they can. MS also offers that.
<ompaul> special effort goes into making sure that instructions are easy to follow
<XiXaQ> yes, yes.
<ompaul> and it seems to be working
<XiXaQ> <body><h1>Welcome to Ubuntu</h1></body>
<XiXaQ> ugh. "seems to be working, so no need to be innovative"?
<Flannel> XiXaQ: If its not broken, don't fix it.
<ompaul> XiXaQ, (A) the bot can't send you a message
<ompaul> (B) I wanted it to send you one
<ompaul> Ubuntu can be installed in lots of ways. Please see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation for documentation. Problems during install? See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommonProblemsInstall and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseNotes/UbiquityKnownIssues
<ompaul> that is what I wanted to point you to and say as we do
<XiXaQ> you know when you enter a bar and the bartender comes round and shakes your hand, asking "how are you?"...
<ompaul> no
<ompaul> wrong culture
<XiXaQ> I do. It makes a world of difference.
<XiXaQ> Ubuntu isn't presented in black polished chrome -- but we're here for you.
<ompaul> XiXaQ, my personal biggest fear with something like that is the size and committment your looking for from people
<XiXaQ> does anyone know how many new users there are every day?
<ompaul> we may see one or two in irc (remember the level of computer knowledge you need to join irc)
<ompaul> and I don't mean click on something
<ompaul> mid install
<XiXaQ> right... There are a lot of things we can do in order to make the first impression better.
<ompaul> write them up - put it together as a full proposal - with the use cases and it can be looked at
<XiXaQ> first thing is to split the Ubuntu channel up.
<Flannel> XiXaQ: what would that accomplish?
<ompaul> who goes where?
<ompaul> what do you call this new channel?
<ompaul> does flannel stay in the existing one, go to the new one or live in both?
<ompaul> I really don't see the value in it
<XiXaQ> A new user tries Ubuntu. He discovers things. What he doesn't know, the welcome group/ first line support tells him. After a while, he feels abit familiar with the system. A new user joins. The first new user can answer his question. He is useful. The more experienced users gives the first new user compliments.. ...
<ompaul> forget about the new user, where are the staff for this channel?
<ompaul> seriously
<XiXaQ> changing all of the time. First line support becomes second line support when the helper gains enough experience.
<Flannel> hold on.  wait.  XiXaQ, you seem to be suggesting the exact same channel structure that is currently in place
<ompaul> this is a distributed network of support that is global already
<XiXaQ> except I'm proposing more then one entry point.
<ompaul> well what is or are these points?
<Flannel> XiXaQ: Where did you propose that?  and, what on earth does that mean?
<XiXaQ> are you all familiar with windows control panel?
<Flannel> sure
<ompaul> no, ain't used that software for years
<Flannel> ompaul: think of it like the system menu, except in a window instad of a menu
<Flannel> ompaul: system > administration, even
<ompaul> eyap
<ompaul> yeap
<XiXaQ> the problem, as I see it, is that specially new users get frustrated by the fact that #Ubuntu is so large.. There may be hundreds of question in all categories..
<XiXaQ> and all levels.
<ompaul> and we manage that
<Flannel> XiXaQ: thats because Ubuntu is complicated.  What are you proposing as the solution?
<XiXaQ> newbie users act as newbie helpers to even more newbie users.
<ompaul> that is how it is atm
<XiXaQ> hmm. Yes, I'm obviously not able to visualise.
<Flannel> XiXaQ: A long, long time ago.  I was a new user, in #ubuntu.  I had a few questions, but I already knew some other stuff
<Flannel> XiXaQ: After I got my questions answered, I stuck around.  I helped people with those questions, and the stuff I already knew.
<Flannel> That, as far as I can tell, is exactly what you're proposing
<ompaul> XiXaQ, the new user does not have access to the knowledgebase that longer term users have if you split them up into groups of expertise you do this - you force them to naivigate through a maze of channels
<ompaul> to get to someone with the kb that is suitable
<Flannel> the blind leading the blind
<ompaul> and introducing automatix and the like
<XiXaQ> you're missing the point. The point is giving the best helpers access to the best higher level helpers.
<XiXaQ> brb
* ompaul shuts up I am now obviously getting frustrated 
<Flannel> XiXaQ: what?  so, it's tiered?  You have to be 'in' to get real help?
<Flannel> Its a big pyramid scheme of support!
<ompaul> Flannel, with seveas sitting on the top and crimsun doing audio on the #ubuntu-audio and an hours of business sign outside :-)
<Flannel> ompaul: heh, we'll have new users rounding up false usernames to come in, and ask false questions, so they can get their 'helper points' up, to advance to the next level ;)
<ompaul> XiXaQ, I do not see your scheme as being able to provide it, you have to think 24/7/365 about 50 or 60 main helpers in when they can, burnout
<ompaul> Flannel, haha
<Flannel> Tech Support the MMORPG!
<ompaul> XiXaQ, let me explain how we came to open the channel #ubuntu+1
<ompaul> it might help you inform some additional decisions
<Flannel> or, -xgl
<ompaul> #ubuntu is for supporting the stable release
<ompaul> as dapper came on the seen we were saying our software (breezy) is stable
<ompaul> this was true at the time
<XiXaQ> hmm. I don't know what the rate is globally, but I think in norway, about one promille joins #Ubuntu and one per ten of those join the norwegian channel. That's not too many.
<ompaul> anyway we would be saying this
<ompaul> and then someone would say program X is broken
<ompaul> and up querying we would find they were using dapper
<ompaul> so we developed a channel to manage "beta" software
<ompaul> the reason for +1 is that it is always the next release
<Flannel> XiXaQ: They only have to join the norwegian channel if they don't want to/know how to speak eglish.  Just because theyre from norway, doens't mean theyre relegated to language specific channels
<Flannel> XiXaQ: but, if they don't speak english, we *cant* help them in #ubuntu, because we don't know norwegian
<ompaul> so when people would say X was broken we would get the idea that something was broken in the next version
<ompaul> then we knew where to send them
<XiXaQ> it would be a great benefit if #Ubuntu-no was the default channel for nowegian users.
<XiXaQ> ompaul, I know this. This isn't related to what I'm talking about,.
<ompaul> it is
<XiXaQ> ok
<XiXaQ> go on then.
<ompaul> it is how we form channels at this stage
<Flannel> XiXaQ: no it wouldnt.  You'd make norway have it's own support infastructure.  If one person knew how to do XXX and he was from America, norway users would be without that knowledge
<ompaul> we see no reason to move more advanced out of there
<XiXaQ> I read somewhere, that there is 3-6 million Ubuntu users. Why is there only about one thousand people in #Ubuntu?
<ompaul> XiXaQ, you really should have this part of this debate with the ops in #ubuntu-ops - you will be given a one word answer there - no
<ompaul> XiXaQ, most people can't even deal with this level of IRC
<XiXaQ> thank you.
<ompaul> not when first exposed to it
<XiXaQ> are they to be ignored?
<Flannel> XiXaQ: most people don't need support, or want to help support
<Flannel> XiXaQ: When you were a windows user, did you join ##windows and help people?
<Flannel> or, maybe not you.  All of the other windows users
<XiXaQ> they don't want support, they don't want to support, is this #ubuntu-marketing? That's what I'm talking about. It should be way easier to be a Ubuntu helper.
<XiXaQ> no, I joined #Windows95 on DALnet and help people, but I'm not a good example -- I've been using MS DOS since GEM.
<XiXaQ> actually, since before GEM.
<ompaul> XiXaQ, we have many methods of accessing the community, irc is one small part of it
<ompaul> wiki is another
<ompaul> forums, documentation in help.ubuntu.com is another
<Flannel> XiXaQ: So, youre basically saying everyone should be support staff?  It's REALLY easy.  Join the wiki, join the forums, join irc.
<XiXaQ> wiki also isn't very familiar to many people. I'd love it if everyone understood the concept, but that's not reality yet.
<ompaul> we are not going to take on board a centralised control of the type you are talking about, it does not work with distributed projects
<ompaul> and it is centralised layers of users
<XiXaQ> it isn't easy. Join and register on freenode, join launchpad and register. Join ubuntu forums and register. Join the Wiki. Join the LoCo and register. Please read the nuffsaid manual. MSDN is more user friendly!
<ompaul> that is if you want to participate
<ompaul> of the whatever it is windows userbase
<ompaul> how many use msdn?
<XiXaQ> right. But an experienced user doesn't always understand why something is difficult to a beginner.
<Flannel> XiXaQ: to obtain information, one needs not register, just browse.  Exactly like MSDN
<ompaul> XiXaQ, I don't think you realise the size of what you are talking about
<XiXaQ> I do. I know it's a great challenge. I don't mind challenges.
<XiXaQ> it's fun to help beginners.
<XiXaQ> it is a sport.
<ompaul> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate
<ompaul> the wiki is 12925 pages
<ompaul> https://help.ubuntu.com/ makes for interesting reading
<ompaul> this is all developed by input large and small already by hundreds if not thousands of users
<XiXaQ> listen. People I work with hadn't even heard of Google before I introduced it to them. It doesn't make them bad salespeople, and it certainly doesn't make them idiots. They just haven't been exposed to the technologies yet.
<ompaul> with a few core people
<ompaul> driving it - it is now FLOSS works
<Flannel> XiXaQ: the default browse page mentions ways to participate
<XiXaQ> ompaul, excuse the language, but saying https://help.ubuntu.com/ makes for interesting reading to a beginner, is like saying RTFM.
<ompaul> XiXaQ, yeap, and they will not move to Ubuntu until all their mates are using it
<ompaul> I said it to you
<ompaul> you are here espousing that we do not have any resources
<XiXaQ> and you're right. It's much easier to read the manual than it is to read #Ubuntu.
<ompaul> we have not got energy put into things that are productive
<XiXaQ> please calm down... :=
<XiXaQ> I'm only saying that after ten odd years as a salesman, I know that assuming to little is way better than assuming too much.
<ompaul> you have not got a picture of the depth and broadness of this project
<XiXaQ> you have not got a picture of the depth and broadness of my mind.
<ompaul> okay try this one question
<Flannel> XiXaQ: you still have yet to make a cohesive statement about how this whole thing would work.  I'm still not sure what you're talking about, except small tidbits
<ompaul> in this layered irc "society - community" your are suggesting, where to those with the most experience go?
<XiXaQ> all new users should be encouraged to help others. they should be provided with questions immediately - questions which they are able to answer. This creates enthusiasm. "I made Ubuntu better, even with my small amount of knowledge". Most will fall through, leaving the channel when they have their answers. Some will stick. Some will love being a helper. They should be invited to a deeper channel, with people more experienced than themselves.
<ompaul> and that is what we have atm
<XiXaQ> if they receive a question they cannot answer, they question that channel, learn and teach the new found knowledge.
<ompaul> no here is what happens now
<XiXaQ> how many percent of new users become helpers?
<Flannel> XiXaQ: a good deal
<XiXaQ> percent-wise.
<XiXaQ> we do marketing here?
<ompaul> and who looks after #ubuntu?
<XiXaQ> listen, I'm not badmouthing #Ubuntu.
<XiXaQ> I'm saying #Ubuntu is a too heavy traffic channel for a newbie to relate to.
<ompaul> I did not suggest you were, what I am suggesting is that you want to split it you need to take it to the ops and I can tell you that you have not got an arguement for them
<ompaul> you can suggest it in a spec but what you suggest is not the nature of irc
<ompaul> the medium does not break down into those handy classifications so easy
<XiXaQ> joining #Ubuntu should be about the same as joining #Linux then?
<XiXaQ> they answer Ubuntu questions you know.
<ompaul> I doubt it
<ompaul> as in this
<XiXaQ> the nature of IRC is not for millions of people to have one default channel.
<XiXaQ> IRC is quite limited in that regard.
<ompaul> the bot that provides the factoids has its kb based heavily on the design of ubuntu by those who develop it
<ompaul> you will not get "do sudo -su or sudo bash" in there
<ompaul> or if you do you will also get the right version of how to run your system smoothly
<XiXaQ> in #Ubuntu
<ompaul> yes
<XiXaQ> wrong
<XiXaQ> but that's not the point. The point is that #Ubuntu is too crowded.
<ompaul> btw if you fall into #linux you are already a linux user or an irc user
<ompaul> please provide me with where that is wrong
<XiXaQ> or you are a Ubuntu user with a feeling that you're not being heard in the main channel.
<ompaul> this is circular
<XiXaQ> there have been alot of commands in #Ubuntu
<ompaul> you have not answered the basic question - how is this "natural gravitation" of the hirarchy to be generated and managed?
<XiXaQ> it is circular, because truth cannot be avoided. Much like Jesus reinvented Sokrates.
<XiXaQ> why is this an argument? I'm here looking for answers to many of the answers that you make me answer. I don't claim to have all the solutions, I claim to see a problem that should be fixed if Ubuntu is to be User Friendly. That is Marketing, this is #Ubuntu-Marketing
<XiXaQ> 886 Ubuntu users besides bots and myself. How many Ubuntu users are there? That percentage makes me wonder wether we should come up with a better solution..
<ompaul> I said interface though a spec and at least attempt to solve the issues you throw up, how does this grading take place, who chooses who goes here there or anywhere?
<XiXaQ> all good questions, would you mind thinking about a good answer?
<ompaul> there is none
<ompaul> I don't have one from my perspective as I have seen that channel operate with 1k users +
<XiXaQ> well, then, we must conclude that Ubuntu is too large for using IRC as a communications central.
<ompaul> it has mailing lists
<ompaul> it has web
<XiXaQ> yup. That's innovative.
<XiXaQ> a crowd is dynamic. A crowd may shrink because it is too big.
<XiXaQ> normal users doesn't read books in order to make their computers work.
<ompaul> it has market share without classic marketing or using the gurrrilla marketing revolution methods, it is a classic FLOSS project - it grows because the classic line of "benefit" is percieved by users, as for problem solving this is one method but what about the people who do not need it and just use it as a tool ..
<ompaul> that by the way is most users
<XiXaQ> I sort of agree. In a few years, Ubuntu will be user friendly and maybe other distros have made the netsites use open formats so that Ubuntu users too won't feel the transition between Windows and Ubuntu as going back to the stoneage.
<ompaul> if I was to write this arguement in some other domain, lets say cars - then you have car magazines, and car fairs, and classic car meet ups and so on
<Burgundavia> XiXaQ: that is an old arguement and there is no point raising it
<ompaul> which one is right for the user?
<Burgundavia> it is also one which is mostly incorrect
<ompaul> the one the user chooses
<XiXaQ> how many users does MS have? How many users can #Ubuntu support? Is this difficult math?
<XiXaQ> we should
<Burgundavia> no, but the number of users who use #ubuntu is fairly small
<XiXaQ> we should assume that all new Ubuntu users need communication. Is it wise to have one default channel?
<XiXaQ> right.
<XiXaQ> Why is it so small?
<ompaul> ubuntu has about 6million installs by one guess
<Burgundavia> do you have a concrete proposal to deal with it?
<Burgundavia> because IRC is a geeky medium
<ompaul> and irc is for those who like their internet a bit closer to the protocol
<XiXaQ> IRC is a geeky medium and the only channel I know of where a new user can get help from a Human Bein.
<XiXaQ> Being.
<Burgundavia> do you have a concrete proposal?
<Burgundavia> for non-real time, there is the mailing lists, the forums and LP support tickets
<XiXaQ> mailing lists are an even worse alternative.
<Burgundavia> please, I have been lurked and have failed to hear a concrete proposal
<XiXaQ> well, I suggest we find out why there are millions of users and a few hundred people in the main channel.
<XiXaQ> why it's so very difficult to get even Ubuntu users on DALnet to join #Ubuntu on Freenode.
<ompaul> well they have choosen dalnet
<XiXaQ> how can we use IRC as a means for newbies if even the more advanced users are reluctant to use it?
<Burgundavia> again, think beyond IRC
<ompaul> it is not the default it is their choice and right to do so
<XiXaQ> well then. do we have a good helpers network on DALnet?
<Burgundavia> solving the general issue of getting users help is not something that should be restricted to IRC
<XiXaQ> Burgundavia, I couldn't agree more.
<ompaul> well #ubuntu will not be going to dalnet in the near future that I can figure
<XiXaQ> I'm still in -Marketing?
<Burgundavia> yes
<ompaul> as far as we know the answer to that is yes
<XiXaQ> but we should stay here and wait?
<ompaul> :)
<ompaul> for ?>
<XiXaQ> users to visit?
<XiXaQ> to me, marketing is about making cold calls. It's about smoothing rough edges, making people respect the good so that the negative doesn't matter. IRC is probably the best way to start. There are alot of IRC networks. There are mIRC help channels on all networks I've ever been on.
<XiXaQ> Why isn't there Ubuntu channels on every network?
<ompaul> when you get ubuntu
<ompaul> what network does it point you to?
<ompaul> first start default?
<XiXaQ> "when you get Ubuntu" <-- Get my point?
<XiXaQ> There is a reason why I'm saying all thiese things in _this_ channel.
<ompaul> irc
<ompaul> is
<ompaul> not the medium for this debate we already had it on the mailing list you can check the archives here: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
<XiXaQ> There are two halves of the marketing circle. We only have one, and not fully.
<ompaul> I do go out and give talks I know others do that here
<ompaul> I distribute disks like others
<XiXaQ> the salesmans best friend and most feared enemy is the initial enthusiasm.
<ompaul> I have been doing this for years
<XiXaQ> me too. I've lost alot of good customers due to oversell.
<ompaul> before ubuntu I did it with various other linux distributions and for the most of the last two years I have been comfortable here
<XiXaQ> Ubuntu is overselling.
<XiXaQ> either we must limit the expectations, or we must meet them.
<ompaul> well you have undersold your existing proposal cos all I can see it doing it eating resources without providing a reasonable return on investment
<XiXaQ> then I've undersold it.
<ompaul> when I install ubuntu it stays installed
<Burgundavia> XiXaQ: if we were spread across every network, we would have serious manpower issues
<Burgundavia> ubuntu is on freenode
<XiXaQ> like salesmen on a gas-station then?
<Burgundavia> huh? you are making no sense and I fail to see your point
<XiXaQ> "If the customers aren't here, they probably don't need us"
<Burgundavia> if you are saying we should have a ubuntu channel on every server, there likely already is
<Burgundavia> however, the official channels are here
<Burgundavia> ubuntu != gas station
<Burgundavia> for the record, there are 12 users in #ubuntu on oftc
<XiXaQ> at least one channel on the largest networks, if only to help the most novice users and point the others here.
<XiXaQ> we must have stability in the community as well.
<XiXaQ> there were at one time more Ubuntu users in the general norwegian chat channel on DALnet than there were on #Ubuntu-no on freenode. Accomplishment?
<XiXaQ> furthermore, none of those ever joined freenodes ubuntu channels.
<ompaul> that is their choice
<XiXaQ> heheh
<ompaul> they have it and are allowed exercise it
<XiXaQ> yes, but I'm a marketer. I've been in charge of many salesoffices. I've trained salesmen. "That's their choice" is _not_ marketing lingo.
<Burgundavia> XiXaQ: please, I ask you again
<XiXaQ> please do, Burgundavia.
<Burgundavia> what exactly is your point and what exactly do you want to see happen?
<Burgundavia> fwiw, I am also a salesman
<XiXaQ> my point equals the name of the channel.
<Burgundavia> that this is -marketing?
<Burgundavia> yes, we talk about that in here
<XiXaQ> we talk about it...? Marketing isn't about talking about it, you should know that. Marketing is about making it happen.
<XiXaQ> I talk about it after work. If I talk about it during work, I get cut in salery,.
<Burgundavia> yes, I realize that
<Burgundavia> so what you want is thus: "Have official ubuntu channels on each and every major network"?
<XiXaQ> that's not what I want. I want a great deal more. That's the first step. I want every new user to have a small group of semi-advanced helpers, and at least one of those to have access to more advanced users, and some of those to have access to very advanced users.
<XiXaQ> but I want alot more than that too.
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> that is more an issue for the New User Network than us
<XiXaQ> now that's constructive. I didn't know of that group.
<XiXaQ> why?
<Burgundavia> becuase they help new users
<Burgundavia> we market ubuntu
<XiXaQ> I meant, why didn't I know about the New User Network?
<XiXaQ> I'm an IRC helper and a marketer.
<ompaul> well join the channel
<Burgundavia> because they were dormant for a while
<ompaul> but be aware that it has its action point now -classroom
<XiXaQ> I know about the -classroom.
<ompaul> its major contribution is the classes it has started to run
<XiXaQ> you would agree that marketing first of all is to let the market know what's there?
<ompaul> I have been off writing a rebuttle of some of what you have said and where I think your failing at this juncture
<Burgundavia> yes, but that has nothing todo with #ubuntu
<XiXaQ> that's great.
<Burgundavia> 95% of the users who hit that channel already use #ubuntu
<Burgundavia> hence our job is mostly done
<ompaul> XiXaQ, if you want to change what you see as failings in the "interface" to ubuntu you need to make the business case  to make a case here you must first define a specific problem problem and propose a either work around or a fix,  you have to find some way to express to people how to improve the process. If you fail to bring this to the table you are asking people to spend resource (i.e. their time) on something that they can't see as
<ompaul> having a payback or direction they will not expend that resource on it. Also please take into consideration the geek value of IRC.
<ompaul> Our interfaces are well defined in the participate link on the home page. Marketing here only allows us to brain storm and document the results of such a session, there is no budget, or crew to take it to the streets, if someone pops in we can equip them, however if someone is looking for presentation materials we can and have provided that for them also. That is how I see it.
<XiXaQ> Burgundavia, "it has nothing to do with", or "does it have anything to do with"?
<Burgundavia> sorry, I have to run
<Burgundavia> need to be somewhere in 15 minutes
<ompaul> Burgundavia, l8r
<XiXaQ> Burgundavia, see you later.
<XiXaQ> I still feel that if you want to create a community, the community must have time for it's new additions. I do not feel #Ubuntu has that to offer.
<ompaul> every user there was new at some stage
<XiXaQ> yes, it's a great channel if you want to see what someone doesn't know. It's not a good channel if you want to see what they _do_ know. That's more important.
<XiXaQ> it's a good channel for "how do I"-questions.
<ompaul> and that is its intent
<XiXaQ> yes, I know.
<XiXaQ> and that was a good idea for mIRC. Perhaps a good idea for Linux, if the questions were Linux related and not distribution-related.
<ompaul> you have not so far defined the selection methods for these proposed metrics which have no clear way of being defined
<XiXaQ> if it's possible on this network, to forward a user to another channel, then there should not be any difficulties in creating a bot which forwards new users to paralell channels. not help channels. Greeting channels.
<ompaul> it is your idea, your not putting enough flesh on the bones to make even a passing crow be interested in picking at the idea
<XiXaQ> and you're picking the bones for whatever flesh I put on it.
<XiXaQ> you act as acid instead of ferment.
<mindspin> ;-)
<mindspin> advocatus diavolo
<ompaul> as for the bot you propose that is a whole region of expert systems and decision support that is advanced beyond the level of payback to ubuntu it would offer
<XiXaQ> if this is marketing, then this should be a place for vague ideas for others to pick up on.
<ompaul> mindspin, moi?
<ompaul> XiXaQ, it would be nice to get everyone on planet earth using some version of ubuntu
<XiXaQ> ...if they come to us?
<mindspin> yes opmpaul but those are necessary
<ompaul> XiXaQ, is this the "classic" build it and they will come marketing plan?
<mindspin> opmaul was a freudian...
<ompaul> hehe
<XiXaQ> any classic marketing plan is a bad one.
<XiXaQ> I'm going to sleep. Rest assured, I'll be back.
<ompaul> XiXaQ, enjoy
<mindspin> btw. we have mayor elections here an one of the candidates want#s to talk with me about ubuntu
<XiXaQ> oh, I will :)
<ompaul> mindspin, party CDU SDP or Greens?
<poningru> no way
<mindspin> I#ll give him input for sure
<poningru> where is this?
<ompaul> poningru, he is in .de
<poningru> ah ic
<poningru> where in deutche?
<mindspin> he was independent before and found shelter by the one man liberal fraction (FDP)
<ompaul> hehe
<mindspin> we have six (some say seven) canditates
<mindspin> three of the are pub owners
<mindspin> one was meter maid in the neighbour town
<mindspin> and three serious ones
<mindspin> another city wide known former pub owner declared today "that he is seriously considering to throw his hat into the ring
<mindspin> But if I can convince him, it'll be in the  local papers for sure
<ompaul> mindspin, give the others the same information :-)
<ompaul> let there be no political bias :)
<mindspin> sure
<ompaul> ubuntu becomes the issue in your election hehe
<ompaul> and then you stand for mayor
<mindspin> just a side issue because they lack of themes to discuss, most important thing is that the city has no, zero, null. rien, nada, niente money
<mindspin> so costs could become a point
#ubuntu-marketing 2006-09-05
<mindspin> I was thinking about standing as "fun candidate" but I won't ruin my social life and reality has overtaken any satirical approach
<mindspin> I will argue in a more Open source in general attitude
<sladen> hmmm, the gobby story sucked, seems nobody else checked it over
<dotwaffle> Hmmm... This Ubuntu book is very wordy about the creation of Ubuntu... Interesting to geeks, yes, but is it the intended market?
<poningru> dotwaffle: which book is it?
<poningru> there are many that were published
<dotwaffle> The latest one. The "comes with a DVD, and written by Mako, Jono et al@
<poningru> ah
<poningru> Burgundavia here is corey burger
<poningru> err
<dotwaffle> yuo
<dotwaffle> yup
<dotwaffle> it's a good book, mark my words, very interesting to those interested in the history... It just seems to be that the first 30 or 40 pages contain far too much waffleage about where Ubuntu comes from.
<poningru> well that stuff is important
<poningru> because ubuntu isnt just a gnu/linux based os, its also an idea
<dotwaffle> important, yes, but does it suit the purpose of the book?
<poningru> ofcourse
<poningru> anyway I cannot justify the book any more than a random guy.... talk to one of the authors through email etc.
<dotwaffle> I have...
<dotwaffle> I think it's a good book, well written, and perfect for someone who is new to Ubuntu with that geek bent.
<dotwaffle> I'm just saying, if it were trimmed down to say... 100 pages, with only 2 or 3 pages on the history, maybe it would be more applicable.
<dotwaffle> Either way, it should sell well
<grasshopper> hi Madpilot
<Madpilot> hi grasshopper
<grasshopper> Madpilot: got that leaflet ^^
<grasshopper> wanna print and laminate it
<Madpilot> haven't done the customization for you yet, but give me 10min and I'll have it done.
<grasshopper> Madpilot: kewl...
<Madpilot> do you want an SVG, or a big PNG?
<grasshopper> errr...not sure
<grasshopper> svg maybe?
<grasshopper> is that printable?
<Madpilot> usually, from Inkscape
<grasshopper> and png?
<grasshopper> as long as it fits on A4
<Madpilot> It's designed to fit on North American 8.5x11, which is close to A4 but slightly different.
<Madpilot> http://ubuntu-ca.org/Ubuntu_Pamphletv2.svg
<Madpilot> SVG, with your info under Local Contacts at the very bottom
<grasshopper> thx, Madpilot
<Madpilot> Gigantic PNG: http://ubuntu-ca.org/Ubuntu_Pamphletv2.png
<Madpilot> it really is big - 1.6Mb
<grasshopper> woah!
<grasshopper> is this a poster?
<Madpilot> no, it's a 300dpi image, for high quality printing
<Madpilot> so it's massive
<Madpilot> and Inkscape outputs high quality but non-optimized PNGs, so they're always big
<grasshopper> is the png also A4?
<Madpilot> neither of them is, they're both 8.5x11
<grasshopper> got two back copies printed
<grasshopper> must be doin something wrong
<Madpilot> back copies?
<grasshopper> *black
<Madpilot> from the SVG or the png?
<grasshopper> png
<grasshopper> couldn'tg print from inkspace
<grasshopper> epson stylus  photo rx425 should work
<Madpilot> odd. it's a standard PNG, it should work
<grasshopper> but havent really printed in color much so don't know
<grasshopper>  Madpilot look slike i'll need to copy it to disk and take it somewhere to print . Does png translate to whatever people use out there, do  you know?
<Madpilot> that depends on the shop you go to.
<Madpilot> you might want to convert it to jpg in the GIMP, everyone knows what a jpg is.
<grasshopper> most shops dont use Ubuntu as far as i know :)
<Madpilot> PNG isn't a Ubuntu-only thing
<grasshopper> k
<Madpilot> phone around, someone might be able to grok PNG
<grasshopper> Madpilot: joking, but is in'tit a linux thing only
<Madpilot> then you won't risk loosing quality when you convert the PNG to jpg
<Madpilot> no, Windows apps can create png
<grasshopper> ok, well, in that case
<grasshopper> darn printer
<grasshopper> another wast of money
<grasshopper> damn expensie cartridges, on top of that i don't get my print
<Madpilot> in Inkscape, go File->Print, make sure it says "| lp" in the Print Destination box, then try to print the SVG again
<grasshopper> Madpilot: does the size in png matter (zoomin in and out) or is the print fixed no matter what the apparent size
<Madpilot> print it so it fills an 8.5x11 (or a4) sheet, and it'll be right
<grasshopper>  print as bitmap?
<grasshopper> or print using postscript operators
<Madpilot> try that, move dpi up to 300 and it should print properly
<Madpilot> Inkscape's printing is a bit of a black art, try several things and see what works.
<grasshopper> inkscape still not printin
<Madpilot> gah
<Madpilot> does your printer work in other Linux apps?
<grasshopper>  has done, for printing the printed word :(
<grasshopper>  openoffice
<poningru> hehe
<Madpilot> printing in LInux is a f'ing mess, to be honest
<grasshopper> well, that is a shame
<grasshopper> its kinda a big part of the home desktop experience these days, with photos and all
<Madpilot> true
<grasshopper> Its printing now as a jpg!!!
<Madpilot> from which app?
<grasshopper> i sved it as jpg from gimp to /home/user_name opened it with default viewer, (same as for the png) and printed
<grasshopper> ok, the colors don't look as true as on the computer. Much less orange but if you don't  know then you don't know the diference or the original. And its printed fine
<Madpilot> but the png didn't work that way?
<grasshopper> Madpilot: no, thats right, png didn't work that way
<Madpilot> strange
<grasshopper> got two sheets filled with precious black ink to prove it
<grasshopper> Madpilot: the personal details at the bottom are too small actually
<grasshopper> Madpilot: do you not use A4 paper in the US?
<Madpilot> North America uses 8.5inches by 11inches as standard (Letter size)
<grasshopper> i've got margins left on all sides, which i'll need to cut
<grasshopper> weird
<Madpilot> most printers can't actually do edge-to-edge printing
<grasshopper> Madpilot: its just if it was stretched out to A4 it would be perfect in terms of the size of the script
<Madpilot> if you load the SVG in Inkscape, you can bump the size of the text
<grasshopper> its ok, just about, but especially the local contact section is a bit small. Looks like a legal disclaimer one is not supposed to notice
<grasshopper> Madpilot: k
<grasshopper> its very pleasing to see it on print though
<grasshopper> Madpilot: hey, you didn't change the grammatical error in the Evolution paragraph :D
<Madpilot> which one was that?
<grasshopper> Evlolution 'can also' not 'also can'
<Madpilot> fixed - want the updated SVG, or did you edit your copy already?
<grasshopper> Madpilot: yes, give me the update, please
<Madpilot> just a mo
<Madpilot> fixed. http://ubuntu-ca.org/Ubuntu_Pamphletv2.svg
<grasshopper> Madpilot ave you printed one off yet?
<Madpilot> my printer is currently out of ink, haven't bought new cartridges yet
<grasshopper> hehe
<grasshopper> what printer do you have?
<Madpilot> an HP 5740, which does work from Inkscape, usually
<grasshopper> Don't know that model, but HP do nice quality pics, although those cartridges are pricey
<grasshopper> Madpilot: its definitely come out much more pink and red than orange and apricot as it does on my computer
<Madpilot> colour management is fun
<grasshopper> well, i expect the computer to just reproduce what is being printed off the screen
<Madpilot> grasshopper, you're an optimist ;)
<grasshopper> Madpilot: true! :p
<Madpilot> slightly more seriously, colour management is even more arcane than printers on Linux...
<grasshopper> Madpilot: sounds like an area that really needs catching up then
<Madpilot> colour management on Windows and in full-blown commercial printing is arcane too, this isn't just a Linux problem
<grasshopper> oh, well, in that case then ^^
<grasshopper> by the way gimp doesn't open .svg here
<grasshopper> Madpilot: if yoiu could send me teh editeed version in png
<Madpilot> GIMP can't open SVG for anyone. That's what Inkscape is for.
<grasshopper> want to convert to jpg
<Madpilot> in inkscape, File->Export Bitmap
<Madpilot> http://ubuntu-ca.org/Ubuntu_Pamphletv2.png
<grasshopper> thx Madpilot, i've done it through inksapce now anyways but good to have nonetheless
<Madpilot> np
<poningru> Madpilot: speaking of which any experience in converting a png to a vector?
<poningru> err svg
<Madpilot> converting SVG to vector? SVG is a vector format already
<Madpilot> Png->SVG is possible thru Inkscape, but hard to do well
<poningru> right
<poningru> the latter
<poningru> yeah I have tried experimenting but it came out like crap everytime
<poningru> too blurry, no outline etc.
<grasshopper> Madpilot: this time it didn't print. came out all black again. Just grateful one did come out, even if does have that dodgy sentence
<Madpilot> crap... I hate printers :|
<grasshopper> Madpilot: its worked now, weird  :|
<Madpilot> I really hate printers. Have I mentioned that already?
<grasshopper> Madpilot: i have a button on my printer 'fit to Page' but it hasn't done it
<grasshopper> yea, you did  :)
<grasshopper> Madpilot: well, that is two copies printed and laminated ready to go
<grasshopper> Madpilot: thx, amigo
<Madpilot> no problem
<Madpilot> aren't printers fun?
<grasshopper> no, i hate them  8-)
<grasshopper> ready to hit the sack, 6 am here
<jenda> sladen: ping
<sladen> jenda: pong
<jenda> sladen: wanted to ask if it would be possible to have a fridge entry in about a month from now about Ubuntu posters being shipped out worldwide.
<jenda> I will lose big money if I sell less than 200 :( (won't gain any money till about 350 posters)
<jenda> elkbuntu: check your inbox :) kudos from silbs
<elkbuntu> :)
<elkbuntu> i personally doubt you'll be stuck with that few.. there's so many lugs and enthusiasts who are going to want this sort of stuff
<sladen> jenda: absolutely no problem.
<sladen> jenda: Canonical and ubuntu are separate;  remember that if you, as a community person want something then other people will to
<jenda> sladen: thx
<jono> hey
<MitchM_> asleep elkbuntu?
* jenda listens in
<ompaul> MitchM_, I think she is even wondering if she can make the meeting given it is 8am her time ;-)
<MitchM_> so your saying.... she might be asleep?
<MitchM_> =)
#ubuntu-marketing 2006-09-06
* lophyte pokes nixternal 
<nixternal> yo yo yo
<lophyte> just got me a rush-shipped box of CDs
<lophyte> :)
<nixternal> nice
<lophyte> it was shipped on friday and got here today
<nixternal> i have 500 more coming for an event we are doing with FREE GEEK
<lophyte> 130 Ubuntu, 20 K and 10 Edu
<nixternal> right now, i am setting up 4 boxes for a Tech Show at the Uni tomorrow
<lophyte> nice
<nixternal> im dead tired right now
<lophyte> we're thinking about going for SFD
<lophyte> having a prep meeting this Saturday to see how many people we've got
<nixternal> i know i am participating in SFD with a local LUG
<nixternal> i didn't get to create a team for us, so we are going to be merging with some LUGs instead
<nixternal> just for SFD
<lophyte> cool
<lophyte> the owner of the Linux Caffe here is also a video guy.. he's going to be recording our meeting and interviewing some of us for his SFD press kit
<nixternal> nice
<lophyte> so we might or might not get some press exposure.. who knows
<nixternal> i am trying to get some press exposure, but Chicago kind of sucks..you need a lot of money and be a big wig for exposure...it is such a politically charge thing it isn't funny
<poningru> arr?
* poningru is also has sfd coming up
<poningru> except only... 50 cds, 5 kubuntu
* poningru hugs elkbuntu 
<poningru> our local celebrity
<poningru> except more... global
<elkbuntu> :)
<poningru> yarr
<Madpilot> Mrh?
<poningru> dude do you know where the press team page went?
<poningru> in ubuntu wiki
<Madpilot> poningru, no idea - where is it supposed to be?
<poningru> wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/PressTeam
<poningru> sigh nm
<Burgundavia> the press team is mostly a dead idea, but it probably should be revived
<Burgundavia> however, it is also something we need to liase with the local teams about
<poningru> Burgundavia: I worked on a press kit during summer
<Burgundavia> cool
<poningru> but kinda died when I came back to school/work
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> are the results somewhere?
<poningru> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PressTeam/EPK
<jenda> Have a look at one of the poster proposals: http://ubuntuforums.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=15360&d=1157515086
<Madpilot> too much text crammed into that grey box, otherwise OK
<Burgundavia> loose the underline
<Burgundavia> make Ubuntu bigger
<Burgundavia> use more of hte Ubuntu colours
<Burgundavia> like the catch phrase
<Burgundavia> no mention of "Linux for Human Beings"
<Burgundavia> jenda: where is that thread?
<Madpilot> jenda, I almost prefer the original concecpt that was posted on the thread: http://ubuntuforums.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=15307&d=1157428287
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=248546
<Burgundavia> hmm, will bookmark that
<jenda> ah, thx Madpilot
* jenda is increasingly in favour of the hand-drawn design in that thread.
<Madpilot> yeah, I like it too
* Madpilot kicks Inkscape to life, and decides that he doesn't *really* need to get to sleep yet... ;)
<jenda> hehe :)
<jenda> Madpilot: if you're in Canada, you should... ;)
<Madpilot> it's not even midnight here yet, I'll go to sleep tomorrow :)
<Burgundavia> http://www.gasteropodica.net/ablage/ubuntu/ubuntu_idea01.jpg <-- this one?
<jenda> yes
<Burgundavia> I love it
<jenda> The more I look at it, the more I like it.
<Burgundavia> even just like that
<jenda> exactly :)
<jenda> pre-alpha my buttocks :-D It's beautiful.
<elkbuntu>  the hand-drawn look
<Burgundavia> I really think we need to play up our "human" palette
<elkbuntu> definately
<elkbuntu> especially for the average joe
<jenda> yep
<Burgundavia> it is great to see people interested
<Burgundavia> we truly need a colaborative document storage thingy
<elkbuntu> to be effective, yeah
<jenda> Burgundavia: expect a long email in the ML next week on the subject - although mainly on home printing and distribution of DIY material.
<Burgundavia> cool
<jenda> And don't forget we havea bzr branch
<Burgundavia> thanks for runing that
<jenda> I try to keep it full of the DIY that runs through my hands
<jenda> ah.... and...
<jenda> Burgundavia, Madpilot, elkbuntu - the contents are mirrored daily at: http://doc.ubuntu.com/~marketing/DIY%20Material/
<Burgundavia> cool
<Burgundavia> one of the key pieces that we might want to think about is making certain that when people come looking for a poster, they do not get overwhelmed with choice
<Burgundavia> or any other sort of stuff
<Madpilot> <big obvious sign>Get Yer Posters Here. Big Ones There, Small Designs Over There!</sign>
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> and poster development over here
<Burgundavia> hence the thought of a document managment system
<ompaul> jenda this one is not visible http://doc.ubuntu.com/~marketing/DIY%20Material/DIY-at-home/moeFinley/587337_67868245.jpg
<jenda> Burgundavia: I will only be able to print one type out, so I want it tip top ;)
<Burgundavia> however, those are complex and horrible things to set up
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> but I will need a poster for my mall visit and lots of other people go looking for things
<ompaul> in fact anything in that directory is 403
<jenda> strange...
<elkbuntu> Burgundavia, while not overwhelming, there should still be some variety
<Burgundavia> oh, I agree
<Burgundavia> but that variety should be at most 5
<elkbuntu> yeah, if that
<Burgundavia> each with a different specific message
<jenda> hmm
<Burgundavia> here is an idea: collect all the entries you get and run a poll
<elkbuntu> i'd say 3 designs
<elkbuntu> yeah. and top 3 win
<Madpilot> screenshot from Inkscape: http://www.warbard.ca/temp/U-poster-SVGsketch.png
<jenda> Don't forget that we need the storage first :)
<Burgundavia> we can probably line something up from Chris
<Burgundavia> hmm, nice take on the SFG postger
<Burgundavia> SFD, rather
<jenda> but the storage could, and should be eventually implemented in that site you're working on, elkbuntu ...(I hope :))
<jenda> Burgundavia: link?
<elkbuntu> jenda, im prioritising to surveys at the moment
<elkbuntu> jenda, the flu set me behind in that :(
<jenda> elkbuntu: it's alright. I'll be away for a week anyway.
<Burgundavia> http://twiki.softwarelivre.org/bin/viewfile/SoftwareLivreVS/DiaLiberdadeSoftware2005?filename=cartaz-peq.jpg
<Burgundavia> one example
<jenda> hmm, I have no clue about that permission thing on the site.
<jenda> nevermind - I moved it to the posters section.
* jenda hates moderating the marketing mailing list
<Madpilot> http://www.warbard.ca/temp/U-poster-SVGsketch2.png
<jenda> ripoff ;)
<jenda> It's brown, that's a plus...
<Burgundavia> hmm, not so keen on the verbage
<jenda> On the 'highway' thing?
<Burgundavia> ya
* jenda looks up verbage in the dictionary
<jenda> s/dictionary/wiktionary
<Madpilot> 'verbiage' - Burgundavia can't spell ;)
<Madpilot> jenda, s/ripoff/inspired by ;)
<jenda> :)
<jenda> Madpilot: actually, although the wikitionary has no entry, dictionary.com does...
<jenda> "<spelling, jargon> /ver'b*j/ A deliberate misspelling and
<jenda> mispronunciation of verbiage that assimilates it to the word
<jenda> "garbage". Compare content-free. More pejorative than
<jenda> "verbiage"."
<Madpilot> heh
<jenda> 
<Madpilot> a bit silly, but not bad for less than 20 minutes knocking around in Inkscape: http://www.warbard.ca/temp/U-poster-SVGsketch3.png
<jenda> cool ;)
<jenda> But I still prefer the hand drawn one...
<Burgundavia> ugh, a big grey swath
<Madpilot> yeah, I prefer mine w/o the road, and the hand-drawn one is still cooler.
<jenda> hello matthewrevell
<matthewrevell> hi
<jenda> MenZa: have a look at http://www.gasteropodica.net/ablage/ubuntu/ubuntu_idea01.jpg
<jenda> (and hello :) )
<nixternal> those are cool jenda ;)
<nixternal> (and hello ;) )
<jenda> I really like that. It was submitted by HanZo
<matthewrevell> jenda: nice
<matthewrevell> jenda: Copy could be a little snappier
<matthewrevell> "The highway to freedom is open" for example
<jenda> yes, he's working on more versions of the same.
<jenda> aha
<MenZa> not bad jenda
<MenZa> they look nice
<MenZa> especially the top one
<jenda> yep :)
<matthewrevell> jenda: when you say "submitted", where was it submitted to?
<matthewrevell> Is there a competition, or something?
<jenda> yes, lemme link
<jenda> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=248546
<MenZa> jenda: spefifically not you take nothing but vectors in.
<MenZa> specifically*
<matthewrevell> nice work dude
<matthewrevell> I must keep up :)
<jenda> matthewrevell: please do :)
<jenda> and there is one more thread on that matter, linked in OP, where I try to probe the 'market'
<elkbuntu> hey matthewrevell :)
<matthewrevell> hey :)
<jenda> yo, elkbuntu
<elkbuntu> did you see the article, matthewrevell?
<matthewrevell> elkbuntu: SMH? Not yet
<matthewrevell> I've seen jdub's post about it
<matthewrevell> how did it come about?
<elkbuntu> need linkage?
<matthewrevell> please :)
<matthewrevell> brb
<elkbuntu> she emailed me asking for infos.. and i panicked and ran screaming to jdub who helped me through it :)
<elkbuntu> http://www.smh.com.au/news/technology/linux-wins-over-new-fans/2006/09/04/1157222061911.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1
<matthewrevell> cool :)
<matthewrevell> Thanks for the link
<mdke> matthewrevell: here?
<matthewrevell> hi :)
<jenda> ya might have to ping him back... (mdke!!!)
<matthewrevell> mdke: howdy :)
<matthewrevell> jenda: Cheers jenda :)
<jenda> ;)
<matthewrevell> Would it be stupid of me to ask how to get irssi to alert me when my nick appears in a channel?
<matthewrevell> I've Googled it, honestly :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> man irssi? :)
* Kamping_Kaiser has nfi
<matthewrevell> Kamping_Kaiser: Yeah, irssi :)
<matthewrevell> mgalvin: hey, long time no speak
<mgalvin> matthewrevell: hey, yea, been really busy, i'm trying to get back to some ubuntu work finally
<mgalvin> i'm glad to see the uwn is still alive and well :)
<matthewrevell> Yeah, Corey and Rich have jumped into it
<jenda> matthewrevell: I suspect Kamping_Kaiser wasn't saying "Irssi, man?", but rather "man irssi" :)
<jenda> mgalvin: it seems the MT has taken the UWN up quite well ;) (unfortunately, with very little input from me)
<jenda> MenZa: hello
<jenda> Did you say the postage on those stickers was "$4,5 roughly"?
<jenda> We haven't had a meeting since like... ever.
* MenZa chases the tumbleweeds
<jenda> hehe
#ubuntu-marketing 2006-09-07
<poningru> *cricket*
<poningru> *cricket*
<uni`nix> speaking of cricket..i met some players from team India today
<poningru> NO
<poningru> who?
<poningru> ???
<poningru> tendulkar??
<uni`nix> i have no clue
<poningru> wtf...
<poningru> where are you?
<uni`nix> i will ask this guy john who was working the Linux booth with me today..he spoke with them and gave them an ubuntu cd..i just watched their demo and talked to the one guy
<uni`nix> chicago, il usofgay
<poningru> why in the world was the indian team in chicago??
<uni`nix> i heard that tonight on the news
<uni`nix> they were here at the uni for an international summit
<adamant1988> hello all
<uni`nix> bah
<poningru> allo
<uni`nix> i cannot keep my eyes open here
<Burgundavia> whiprush: have you noticed ephy simply not rendering certain wikipedia pages?
<Burgundavia> whiprush: like this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Firefox
<MagicFab> Venezuelan government officials get ubuntu on their laptops: http://lubrio.blogspot.com/2006/08/realizado-segundo-festival-de-software.html
<whiprush> Burgundavia: works for me
<Burgundavia> hmm
<whiprush> the only issue I had was some https borkage that seemed to have gotten fixed last update
<Burgundavia> whiprush: gnome love on planet ubuntu coming right up
<MagicFab> ooops... (almost) off-topic here - wrong channel )
<Burgundavia> MagicFab: that is cool to talk about
<whiprush> Burgundavia: heh
<MagicFab> Burgundavia, well, word is out now :) yeah, they actually installed it on *16* laptops!
<MagicFab> (a lot, considering it's assembly deputies)
<Burgundavia> might make a nice fridge story
<Burgundavia> or an Ubuntu worldwide section of UWN
<poningru> Burgundavia: dont you think that was _little_ overboard :p
<Burgundavia> poningru: overboard?
<poningru> with you and jdub puo went gnome foot happy ;)
<Burgundavia> I guess you never saw the day Novell announced Hula
<Burgundavia> planet gnome was all hula
<poningru> hehe
<poningru> never saw that
<elkbuntu> as i said in -offtopic: Someone needs to tell the GNOME to wipe it's feet, it's left big dark footprints all over the Planet :P
<brian98> hola everyone
<brian98> Anyone awake?
<poningru> elkbuntu: bwhahahahaha
<elkbuntu> the occasional burst of life, brian98
<poningru> brian98: yeah whatsup?
<brian98> yay
<brian98> Just wondering, I asked the question in #ubuntu
<brian98> http://distrocenter.linux.com/ - why no ubuntu? Is that a snub?
<brian98> Seems to be a bit of a snub to the best distro out there ;)
<Burgundavia> no, just not updated recently
<Flannel> Burgundavia: looks like things need to be submitted manually: If you would like to see a distribution represented here that isn't, please contact the distribution project or vendor and tell them to submit their information to us.
<Burgundavia> I know the editor of linux.com, so I will email him
<brian98> ok, just wanted to let you know.. Keep up the good work ;)
<Burgundavia> thanks!
<Burgundavia> brian98: another thing to look for is people calling it Ubuntu Linux
<Burgundavia> it is just Ubuntu
<brian98> Ok
<brian98> but it's still a linux distro
<brian98> *duck*
<brian98> :)
<brian98> a very very good one..
<brian98> but I understand the marketing stuff
<Burgundavia> you don't call it Ford Car or Airbus Airplane
<Burgundavia> suggested text to replace Ubuntu Linux is Ubuntu, a Linux distribution,
<Burgundavia> or Ubuntu, a Linux-based operating system,
<brian98> exactly
<brian98> I totally understand
<brian98> ubuntu os would be nice
<brian98> :)
<Burgundavia> hmm, the ubuntu website has finally fixed the title
<Burgundavia> I can edit, but not that part
<brian98> when I tell people about ubuntu.. First thing they ask is 'what is it'
<brian98> Like MAC OS
<brian98> or Microsoft windows
<brian98> windows being synonimis with being an operating system
<brian98> sorry if I'm going on here and tell me to get lost if I'm talking s**t
<brian98> :)
<Burgundavia> well, that is part of our job
<brian98> I like the sound of ubuntu OS
<brian98> or shake it up ubuntu osx
<brian98> apple would love that :)
<poningru> haha
<brian98> and market it as osx for free
<brian98> I'm just kidding now...
<brian98> I've been working for 18 hours and it's 5:57 am now so I'm prob not making much sense
<Burgundavia> no, you are not ;)
<brian98> :)
<brian98> some of the best ideas come in those lucid moments
<poningru> too true
<brian98> so you guys work for Canonical
<brian98> ?
<Burgundavia> no
<brian98> o ok
<brian98> man it's such a task you have ahead, so exciting, so much you can achieve if you market this product right..
<brian98> plus google are sniffing about aren't they
<Burgundavia> not really
<brian98> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/01/31/google_goes_desktop_linux/
<Burgundavia> utterly and totally false
<Burgundavia> Google is a heavy user of Ubuntu internally
<Burgundavia> goobuntu is an internal code name for their patches, mostly stuff to connect to company resources
<brian98> great pr
<brian98> anyway good to chat. Time for sleep, thanks for listening to my inane ramblings :)
<poningru> Burgundavia: ...
<poningru> dude...
<poningru> why did you make it smaller??
<Burgundavia> because it was huge
<poningru> ... I thought that was the point...
<MitchM> menza: ping
<MitchM> ^.^ not even here.
<mindspin> ubuntu server cd is added to the next issue of german linux magazine...
<klepas> servus
<poningru> yarrr
<klepas> i18n speak-like-a-pirate day soon
<klepas> 19th of September :)
<poningru> yarr
<elkbuntu> well how about that.. convenienly 3 days after software freedom day
<klepas> last year it coincided with sfd
<elkbuntu> i wasnt completely linuxified back then.. but i can imagine the correlations people drew
<klepas> :)
<elkbuntu> people dressed up in pirate attire going "yarr.. do yer wan' sum freeee sofware?" would go down really well
<Flannel> elkbuntu: They'd think you were helping to save the world from natural disasters
<Flannel> or, that it was Sept 19
<elkbuntu> meanwhile im wearing my SFD tshirt now :D
<Flannel> oh, wait.  That was already brought up.
<Flannel> not the former though.  At least one of my points is novel ;)
<ompaul> Flannel, we are
<Flannel> ompaul: saving the world from natural disasters?
<ompaul> Flannel, yes
<Flannel> sounds good.  Yarrr.
<jenda> It's hard to pirate free software... :)
<jenda> (it's possible, though: GPL violations could be considered intelectual property theft = piracy)
<jenda> mdke: I have a suspicion that the cronjob does not work correctly on the marketing dir.
<jenda> mdke: I've been trying to get teh poster suggestions up there, but its still empty :(
<jenda> It's been two days.
<elkbuntu> jenda, are people who dont know what gpl software is, going to understand that?
<jenda> elkbuntu: understand what?
<elkbuntu> jenda> (it's possible, though: GPL violations could be considered intelectual property theft = piracy)
<elkbuntu> err. wrong line.. the line above that
<jenda> Well, no, it was just an OT blurb in the marketing channel :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol
<klepas> poningru: :)
<jenda> klepas: :)
<klepas> servus
<mdke> jenda: did you upload it to the bzr repository?
<jenda> yes
<mdke> jenda: it looks like it is working to me: the files in public_html/spreadubuntu are all dated today
<mdke> drwxr-xr-x  6 marketing marketing  4096 2006-09-07 02:02 spreadubuntu
<jenda> aha
<jenda> there's a redundant DIY directory in there, I'll fix that.
<jenda> Sorry to bother you with my faults again :)
<mdke> no worries
<matthewrevell> mdke: you wanted me yesterday?
<jenda> aha, mdke, you still there?
<jenda> I'd like the cronjob to throw the contents one directory higher.
<jenda> That's where the problem is. They are not all related to SU anymore.
<jenda> Would that be possible?
<mdke_> jenda: can you explain a bit more?
* mdke_ 's network is a bit broken right now
<mdke_> jenda: maybe send me a mail explaining exactly what you want to do.
<jenda> mdke_: thanks a bunch!
<poningru> wait what bzr repository??
<jenda> poningru: one originally for spreadubuntu
<poningru> ah
<jenda> now also used for DIY marketing... but only by me, if I'm not mistaken.
<jenda> OTOH, the entire MT has access.
<jenda> lemme getcha tha link
<jenda> sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-marketing/spreadubuntu/spreadubuntu
<jenda> that's the sftp link for the MT, and the http anyone can use read-only is...
<jenda> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-marketing/spreadubuntu/spreadubuntu
<jenda> there
<jenda> poningru, there's an old thread on that in the ML as well.
<poningru> hmm
<jenda> Feel free to create a new directory there, if you feel there's a new category of files we need hosted.
<jenda> And now I'm off...
<jenda> I'll be back on tuesday.
<MitchM_> menza: ping
* jenda delays his departure just one second...
<MitchM_> =) jenda - do you know if menza sent out those stickers to me?
<MitchM_> I saw that my e-mail to him was still stuck in my outbox on my laptop last night =(
<jenda> hmm
<MenZa> MitchM_: I sent them today.
<MenZa> :)
<jenda> I think he would have sent them ASAP, but I'm not... aha!
<MitchM_> =) thanks!
<MenZa> MitchM_: sorry for the laziness.
<MitchM_> lol...
<MitchM_> bah ...
<jenda> MenZa: how much was the shipping?
<MenZa> MitchM_: I hope they're wrapped properly; I put the envelope inside another to make sure it didn't blow up in my face
<MitchM_> I wouldn't have minded if it was next week
<MenZa> about $6, jenda.
<MitchM_> lol.
<jenda> WHOA
<MenZa> jenda: Have you ever been to Thereisenstadt?
<jenda> nope
<jenda> But Iknow about it.
<MenZa> Alright
<MenZa> I'm going there on the 25th.
<MitchM_> 6$ = paypal to whom?
<MitchM_> how much for the stickers also Jenda?
<jenda> That is about 20 times more expensive than it would be from the Czech Rep, MenZa :(
<MenZa> lmao jenda
<MitchM_> lmao.
* MitchM_ chants a US song.
<jenda> I payed about $0.50 for each shipment
<MitchM_> (maybe he just rapped it _A LOT_) =)
<MitchM_> 90% packaging... 10% stickers?
<jenda> MitchM_: I told ya - the stickers are $5 :) Anything else that you send will be considered a donation towards the posters ;)
<MitchM_> affirm.
<MitchM_> so 11$ to pay for the shiping?
<jenda> ok, I'll send $6 to menza straight away
<MenZa> oh no
<MenZa> nevermind that
<jenda> MenZa: menza at menza dot org, right?
<MenZa> you keep them jenda
<MenZa> KEEP THEM.
<MenZa> We want posters
<jenda> hehe
<MenZa> As long as I get a free one then :D
<jenda> you sure?
<MenZa> of course.
<jenda> OK, it's a deal :)
<MenZa> :D
<jenda> dammit, I gotta run
<jenda> RUN!
<MenZa> How about Kubuntu posters aswell? Will we be doing those?
<MenZa> Oh alright
<jenda> damn :)
<MenZa> Cya jenda
<jenda> later :)
<MitchM_> bye =)
<MitchM_> doh.
<MitchM_> so i heard something about a bumber sticker?
<MitchM_> do those fit on motorcycles.... :)
<MenZa> MitchM_: what kind of size are you interested in?
<MitchM_> ah ha; whatever you sent will do just fine...
<MitchM_> just making small talk.
<MenZa> lol
<MenZa> Bumpers stickers isn't a bad idea.
<MitchM_> :-)
<MitchM_> "I brake for Ubuntu"
* MitchM_ slaps his knee
<MenZa> lmao MItchM
<MItchM> lol.
<Burgwork> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=195957&cid=16058315
#ubuntu-marketing 2006-09-08
<bimberi> elkbuntu: ping
<bimberi> elkbuntu: initial thought - making it 4 pages or less would be good - then they can be either 2 double-sided sheets or a single if shrunk to A5
<bimberi> elkbuntu: applies to current users survey only (of course) :)
<elkbuntu> bimberi, i know.. but you try decide what on the current users to throw out please?
<bimberi> elkbuntu: nothing.  perhaps by doubling up the answer lists in places - for example the answer parts in questions 7 to 16 could be formated like question 2
<elkbuntu> hmm. i'll try that
<bimberi> elkbuntu: btw, sorry i've not been able to help with it, sfd has soaked up my spare time :|
<elkbuntu> thats ok, i understand. you and the others have been really busy with all this.. in fact, nobody in the loco has done much else lately
<elkbuntu> karl has helped me though so :)
<bimberi> :)
<bimberi> bbl (~30 min)
<elkbuntu> k
<elkbuntu> bimberi, done :D .. thinking of that at 3am was a little bit of a big ask ;)
<bimberi> elkbuntu: cool.  i hadn't noticed the email time :o
<bimberi> elkbuntu: i haven't actually been able to go through the questions yet but will try to do so and get back to you by 12:30
<elkbuntu> k. i'll send you the updated pdf now
<Burgundavia> whiprush: do you run popcon your servers?
<whiprush> Burgundavia: no just my desktops. should I?
<Burgundavia> whiprush: just wondered if you had good stats on the gnome-games stuff, to see waht is being run
<whiprush> monkey-bubble
<whiprush> not a gnome-game
<whiprush> but by far, the most popular one
<Burgundavia> too bad upstream is mostly dead
<Burgundavia> it was proposed for gnome 2.6
<bimberi_> elkbuntu: ping
<elkbuntu> oh poop.. *me shakes fist at mother for stealing time*
<Klaidas> haha
<Klaidas> menza's eytest is just brilliant
<Klaidas> http://static.flickr.com/98/234932172_af89d57945_o.jpg
<ompaul> Burgwork, I have not seen a big rush to do thi UWN this week
<ompaul> s/thi/the
<Burgwork> ompaul, this evening
<ompaul> Burgwork, ahh, when I am in bed ;-)
<Burgwork> ompaul, feel free to work on it as much as you want until then
<ompaul> hehe
<MagicFab> I guess this is "good" news
<MagicFab> http://money.cnn.com/2006/09/07/technology/Reality_check_Vista.biz2/index.htm?cnn=yes
<MagicFab> Last paragraph: "So here's a modest proposal: Boycott Vista. Keep your old Windows XP PC around. Don't buy a new one. That's the only way we have to let Microsoft know Vista is an overhyped, late, and pointless update to XP - a perfectly fine operating system."
#ubuntu-marketing 2006-09-09
<ompaul> Burgwork, how about a feature about Saturday 16th Sept?
<Burgwork> SFD?
<ompaul> yes
<Burgwork> list it in upcoming events
<ompaul> okay
<ompaul> wiki is timing out on me for edits .... question when the info was moved from wiki. to help. was the database "cleaned/compressed" space recovered (I don't know the phrase for the wiki's db)
<ompaul> got in
<Burgwork> hmm, no idea
<ompaul> and I don't know that the db does not do it itself
<Burgwork> afaik, moin uses flat files
<Flannel> ompaul: Info was moved over by hand, as far as Im aware.
<Flannel> ompaul: people would copy/paste into the new pages, which is why help. has no previous version history
<ompaul> Flannel, ahh
<ompaul> Burgwork, okay
<Flannel> Not sure about the pages from wiki still taking up space... let me check
<ompaul> Burgwork, I just ripped the SFD site and added a line of my own
<Flannel> ompaul: pages on wiki. that are redirects still have their old database stuff though, they still take up space in wiki.'s database: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyUpgradeNotes?action=info
<ompaul> Flannel, I wonder if it impacts DB peeformance
<Burgwork> again, moin has no db
<Burgwork> it is flat files
<ompaul> sorry
* ompaul reinstalls eye to brain link
<Flannel> then, it might.  I'm not familiar with how the files are stored.  But, extra data shouldnt make a big difference, if things are properly setup/indexed/etc
<Flannel> it definately won't make a difference with editing, well, unless it stores it in one BIG file, etc
<ompaul> Burgwork, logging into a another machine using no passwords?
<ompaul> feature?
* ompaul thinks it is a bit late to start that one
<ompaul> Title: Secure Login With No Password or How I learnt to stop worrying and started to use ssh
<ompaul> Keys Not Password - Preventing SSH Knocking Attacks
<Burgwork> ompaul, sorry?
<ompaul> I am playing with words - how to log into a server without passwords - using keys
<ompaul> or some such titling
<ompaul> for the feature
<Burgwork> Password-less login using SSH keys
<ompaul> yeap
<Flannel> the howto isn't too explanatory, unfortunately.
<ompaul> is that a suitable feature or is it too heavy weight
<Burgwork> for what?
<ompaul> "feature" UWN
<Flannel> ompaul: write a good one! good enough so I can set it up on my box
<Burgwork> sure, that is a good one
<Burgwork> we need more server-oriented articles
<ompaul> when should it be finished by?
<Burgwork> however, better to talk about how it is possible and link to a howto
<Burgwork> features about not about how, but that they exist
<Burgwork> tomorrow, 7am yourtime
<ompaul> phhhhtttt
<ompaul> not going to happen
<ompaul> I'll see if I can clean up the wiki a bit
<ompaul> if I can get it to more "user" friendly then I could link to it
<ompaul> I have about an hour left before I fall over
<Flannel> ompaul: there are two pages that both cover it on the wiki.  Although I think that's new... a few weeks ago the SSHHowTo didn't, just GPGSigningforSSHHowTo
<Flannel> but, Im just rambling
<ompaul> Flannel, it would take a new page to link those
<Flannel> ompaul: er, what?  right.  I havent read the new stuff on the former, as I believe it's new as of a few weeks ago.
<Flannel> however, the latter is user-centric, doesn't explain how ot set up the server portions of it at all
<Flannel> just "make this, give it to your sys admin" sort of thing
<ompaul> and Why OH Why do people not use "ssh -C user@machine" I don't care what size of box you have or network bandwidth unless both are silly huge 99% of use cases get a big improvement with "-C"
<ompaul> gaaaa
<ompaul> sftp for multiple file transfers
<Flannel> ompaul: actually, I found -C was slower for me... on my LAN
<ompaul> what speed is your lan?
<Flannel> 100mbps
<Flannel> I imagine its because the compresison/decompression took more time than the data transfer
<ompaul> tell you what - do a test - do a transfer of a 3 meg file :)
<Flannel> heh, I was watching video, not transferring files
<ompaul> ohhh
<ompaul> hmm
<ompaul> I wonder if streaming acts like ftp or http
<Flannel> well, it wasnt streaming... it was watching the worldcup in ASCII
<ompaul> you had us all doing that
<Flannel> heh
<ompaul> I am writing a little piece called "go away or I will replace you with a shell script" ;-)
<ompaul> I'll give that ssh thing a shot for next week
<ompaul> question, does upstart negate the need for inittab?
<ompaul> nixternal, got a moment or two?
<nixternal> ya
<nixternal> lol
<theCore> hello
<teolemon> hi
<teolemon> i've written a spec here: https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/negative-review-analyser
<teolemon> it would be a way to track negative reviews, analyse them and provide devs with clear feedback
<nixternal> thank you for stopping by ;)
<nixternal> speaking of marketing...CNN ran a story a little bit ago during their "Business" edition, and Bill Gates said as of right now, Linux isn't even a blip on the radar screen, as the marketing of such a wonderful idea doesn't exist
<adamant1988> hello all
#ubuntu-marketing 2006-09-10
<johnlittle> http://www.ubuntuvideo.com/try_ubuntu
<lophyte> hey johnlittle
<johnlittle> yo
<lophyte> how goes?
<johnlittle> not bad..you?
<lophyte> pretty good... we had an ubuntu toronto meet today.. about 12 people showed
<lophyte> we're working on a marketing project for SFD right now.. but after that I'll bring up the video project again
<johnlittle> 12 people is a pretty good start
<lophyte> indeed
<lophyte> i've got an old Dell machine here without an ethernet card.. I have no clue how to open it
<Burgundavia> johnlittle: ready to work on the UWN?
<johnlittle> burgundavia : sure. whats going on?
<Burgundavia> gobbied up\
<Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue13
<Burgundavia> johnlittle: I was thinking about the Kubuntu specific information
<Burgundavia> I think I want to split it out and not have a distro specific section
<Burgundavia> thoughts?
<Burgundavia> for any distro
<johnlittle> burgundavia: split it out how?
<Burgundavia> like I am doing
<johnlittle> It's much more flexible that way
<johnlittle> let the weeks news dictate the structure instead of trying to force the news into a format
<Burgundavia> yep
<johnlittle> burgundavia: got a link for the edgy artwork?
<Burgundavia> asked in artwokr for one
<Burgundavia> I can create one
<johnlittle> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=1475232&postcount=18
<johnlittle> burgundavia: ping
<Burgundavia> johnlittle: pong
<johnlittle> see my question in gobbhy chat?
<Burgundavia> yep
<johnlittle> burgundavia: Gobby ping
<Burgundavia> johnlittle: gobby down
<Burgundavia> johnlittle: back in the wiki
<Burgundavia> anybody awake?
<popey> define $anybody
<Burgundavia> popey: what to help me proofread UWN?
<Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue13
<popey> sure
<Burgundavia> thanks
<popey> is "the default init for edgy" going to mean much to some people? Should it briefly state what init is and why it's replaced?
<popey> or is that too much information?
<Burgundavia> you can add a sentence about what init is
<popey> has the new ubuntu-sounds been mentioned in a past UWN?
<Burgundavia> nope
<Burgundavia> add that under the edgy section
<Burgundavia> popey: ping me when you are done editing
<popey> ok
<popey> Burgundavia: done
<Burgundavia> cheers
<Burgundavia> ompaul: morning
<Burgundavia> ompaul: very sorry, but I had to yank your feature of the week. It was very techny and not very "featurey"
<ompaul> Good morning - my lag is always bad for the first few seconds
<ompaul> no proble
<ompaul> m
<Burgundavia> can you give the UWN a once over for typos, etc.?
* Kamping_Kaiser opens uwn
<ompaul> yap
<ompaul> yeap even
<Kamping_Kaiser> Issue # for the week of Sept 3 <- should that # be something?
* Kamping_Kaiser hasnt seen uwns before, so i dont know about 'asumed conventions'
<Kamping_Kaiser> and 'in this issue' is empty....
<ompaul> it could do with: ||<tablestyle="float:right; font-size: 0.9em; width:40%; background:#F1F1ED; margin: 0 0 1em 1em;" style="padding:0.5em;">'''Contents'''[[BR] ] [[TableOfContents] ] ||
<ompaul> some kind of termination of a line after: These two packages are the upstart equivalent of "initscripts"
<ompaul> forbes lies: Ubuntu works in 22 languages,
<ompaul> the forbes quote should be abandoned, it is so badly written: Ubuntu now has 4 million users, half of which are governments
<ompaul> there are 2 billion governments on planet earth .. you have a one in three chance of being a .gov ;-)
<Burgundavia> ompaul: umm, where did you those numbers/information from?
<ompaul> The FSF.hu Foundation and the Hungarian Ubuntu Community
<ompaul> woops in the press
<ompaul> that last one, perhaps should read: The FSF Foundation in Hungry (fsf.hu) and the ...
<ompaul> that is from the upcomming events
<ompaul> with one m
<ompaul> :)
<Burgundavia> sorry?
<Kamping_Kaiser> ompaul, say it again...i dont get it ;)
<ompaul> okay: forbes info is from, in the press
<ompaul> the upcoming events part, says: The FSF.hu Foundation and the Hungarian Ubuntu Community, I think it would be better as: The FSF Foundation in Hungry (fsf.hu) and the Hungarian Ubuntu Community
<Burgundavia> sounds good
<Burgundavia> edit as you please
<ompaul> it just looks better
<ompaul> I thought you were editing :)
<ompaul> shall I add the menu?
<Kamping_Kaiser> anyone else that contributes <- want a capital A to start with
<ompaul> Kamping_Kaiser, done
<Kamping_Kaiser> wd
<elkbuntu> hmm i dont get a mention in the press section? -- joke :P
<Kamping_Kaiser> aw, bl elkbuntu :(
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<ompaul> elkbuntu, smh.com.au what was the actual url again please :)
<elkbuntu> http://www.smh.com.au/news/technology/linux-wins-over-new-fans/2006/09/04/1157222061911.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1
* ompaul read it and forgot to bookmark it, and managed to have a machine with over 5 years service choose yesterday to stop being my workhorse 
<ompaul> pci bus went for an overheated chip style walk
<elkbuntu> awww
<Kamping_Kaiser> ouch
<elkbuntu> good excuse to buy a new machine?
<ompaul> I have sevearl I had to adjust the function of one
* ompaul needs a spellchecker between his brain and his hands :)
<elkbuntu> you've been around seveas too long
<elkbuntu> you're now incorporating his nick into your typos
<ompaul> haha
<ompaul> Burgundavia, I would like to take those figures out of the forbes item
<ompaul> I would like to leave it to be just the last part
<ompaul> I would like to leave in the fedora command and the last line so it would look like this:
<ompaul> "After its public release in October 2004, Ubuntu quickly deposed Red Hat's Fedora as the most popular version of Linux on DistroWatch, a Web site that caters to Linux users. ... New users rave about the simple user interface, which has gained recent converts in a couple of well-known bloggers who switched from Apple Computer's OS X."
<Burgundavia> except all the facts are wrong
<Burgundavia> I would rather leavce the quote and then put underneath that:
<Burgundavia> then say: closer to 7 million
<Burgundavia> deposed Mandriva
<Burgundavia> 30+ languages
<ompaul> and is it not 95 langauges
<Kamping_Kaiser> wow. thats tottaly different
<Burgundavia> I have no idea, but rosetta can tell you
<ompaul> rosetta front and centre please :)
<Burgundavia> just a sec
<ompaul> okay I will put that in there
<Burgundavia> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+translations
<Burgundavia> hmm, coverage kind of sucks
<elkbuntu> sort it by status and it looks better
<Burgundavia> looking at that
<elkbuntu> cant see it reflected in the url though :-/
<Burgundavia> yes, the problem with ajax
<Burgundavia> I would say 30+{
* elkbuntu does not like ajax
<ompaul> okay
<ompaul> Burgundavia, this text okay?
<ompaul> However these facts are in need of some revision, firstly the install base is currently suggested to be in the region of 7 million, it deposed Mandriva, and it works in over thirty languages, the current state of translation can be seen here.
<ompaul> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+translations  Click on status, for a better view.
<ompaul> here:
<ompaul> saved anyone else want to take a shot at it?
<ompaul> I never took out in this issue
<ompaul> just a sec
<ompaul> with the table on the right there is no need for in this issue
<Burgundavia> Better: While we appluad Forbes for covering Free Software, we thought we might correct a few of their facts. Ubuntu is installed on somewhere between 6 and 7 million computers (the exact number is hard to tell) in a great many languages, about 30 of which are fairly complete and the reining champion on Distrowatch was Mandrake (later Mandriva) not Red Hat or Fedora.
<ompaul> done
<ompaul> right I am going to so some alterations to this machine to try and get it back to a point where it is more useful to me ;-)
<Burgundavia> ompaul: please add edit summaries
<Burgundavia> or I will shot you
<ompaul> where?
<ompaul> ahh
<ompaul> okay
<ompaul> it is a bit late now
<Burgundavia> no, but in th efuture
<ompaul> could we have a red box around that to bring ones eye to it? (and that is serious)
<Burgundavia> there is a switch you can turn on that forces people to fill it out
<ompaul> hit is
<ompaul> it
<ompaul> seriously hit it
<Burgundavia> not my call
<ompaul> no point in having the tools for best practice is your not going to follow it
<ompaul> :)
<Burgundavia> ok, I am going to send out the weekly news
<Burgundavia> new format, however: only the TOC is going out
<Burgundavia> and a short summary
<Burgundavia> thoughts?
<ompaul> fine
<ompaul> as long as the url is there :)
<Burgundavia> that also means we can continue to tweak it
<Burgundavia> elkbuntu: to make up for forgetting you, I am going to mention your interview in the summary
<elkbuntu> :)
<Burgundavia> ok, text to review
<Burgundavia> paste alert
<Burgundavia> Welcome to this weeks Ubuntu Weekly News, covering the happenings and events in the Ubuntu community during September 3rd through 10th. In this issue, we cover Scott James Remnant's upstart going live, Edgy getting GNOME 2.16, Melissa Draper's interview with the Sydney Morning Herald in Australia and much more. Read on at
<Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue13
<Burgundavia> should I add a section about us trying out this new format?
<Burgundavia> ompaul, elkbuntu: ^
<elkbuntu> yeah, people will be wondering
<Burgundavia> I need to play with the template
<Burgundavia> can I get feedback on the text of the announcement before I send?
<elkbuntu> sounds good but then i could be biased here ;)
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> ok, I will send
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol elkbuntu
<Burgundavia> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-news/2006-September/000053.html
<Burgundavia> we are done this week
<Burgundavia> please keep cleaning up the typos
<Burgundavia> I am going to sleep
<Burgundavia> elkbuntu: would you mind editing the template to reflect this weeks layout?
<Kamping_Kaiser> shes away atm.
<Burgundavia> you can do it to
* ompaul got ousted this machine is used for international voip .. I really need to fix my wifes computer to do the same 
<Kamping_Kaiser> i'll tell her when shes back :)
<Burgundavia> sure
<Kamping_Kaiser> np
<elkbuntu> edit the template, as in put in the contents box?
* elkbuntu pokes the wiki with a pointy stick. Work damnit!
<ompaul> I think we should then make versions 15 16 and 17 include the "forward looking information about those days"
<ompaul> s/days/editions
<ompaul> so if there is an event 3 three weeks away we could have a note about it, and we could google it to see if the info got better than the previous releases
<ompaul> i.e. so if you wanted to talk about an event on New Years day you might do monthly Sept Oct Nov and weeks 1 3 4 Dec and an event wrap up in jan
* elkbuntu hits save and hopes the edits are right
<Burgundavia> elkbuntu: you around?
* Cogito_ergo_sum esta Ausente, Razon: ( ya regreso... deja tu mensaje ) | Desde: ( Sunday, September 10, 006. 13:0:7 ) Xlack v.1
<poningru> how come that ubuntu christian thing hasnt been shutdown yet?
#ubuntu-marketing 2007-09-03
<beuno> johnc4510, released, want to finish the release checklist?  I have to run
<beuno> I've already done all the bits an admin has to do, just need to slap it on the fridge, and I'm out  :D
<johnc4510> beuno: kk
* johnc4510 http://digg.com/linux_unix/Ubuntu_Weekly_Newsletter_55
<johnc4510> beuno: ping
* mode/#ubuntu-marketing [+o Vorian]  by ChanServ
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-marketing:Vorian] : Welcome to the Ubuntu Marketing Team's IRC channel | We're here to fix Bug #1 | Keep in mind that whatever your LoCo  does, any other LoCo can benefit from your work or experience! | Please sign up to the mailing list, ubuntu-marketing at lists.ubuntu.com | Beuno  is doing UWN | UWN #55 is out! UWN #56 is in progress to be released Sunday September 9th
* mode/#ubuntu-marketing [-o Vorian]  by ChanServ
<Vorian> hows that johnc4510?
<johnc4510> yep ty
<johnc4510> :)
<Vorian> no problemo
<johnc4510> lol
<beuno> johnc4510, pong
<johnc4510> beuno: howdy
<johnc4510> got vorian to change the topic here 
<beuno> johnc4510, I see Vorian did all the dirty work already  :p
<johnc4510> that was the last thing i think
<johnc4510> :)
<Vorian> :)
<beuno> I always forget to change the topic...
<johnc4510> np
<johnc4510> the ever present was around
<johnc4510> lol
<beuno> hehe
<johnc4510> lots of little things to do    i'm still getting use to it
<johnc4510> :)
<beuno> johnc4510, don't worry, you'll still forget things a year down the road, believe me  :D
<johnc4510> lol
<johnc4510> i'm sure
<johnc4510> i'm glad nick will be back this week
<beuno> heh, yeah, he does a lot of heavy lifting!
<johnc4510> yep
<nixternal> hey all, what's up with Ubuntu HQ in the UWN?
<juliux> hi
<juliux> hi gerr1 
<beuno> jenda, ping
<beuno> 1/nsames
<beuno> er
<beuno> nothing :D
#ubuntu-marketing 2007-09-04
<jenda> beuno: pong
<juliux> morning
<juliux> hmm still no gerry here:(
<elkbuntu> juliux, try pinging katkin, she might know where he's up to
<katkin> hi guys
<katkin> you looking for gerry?
<elkbuntu> juliux is, yes
<elkbuntu> (or was an hour ago)
<katkin> anything I can help with or do you want me to grab him?
<elkbuntu> i dont know what juliux wants, so just wait for him to be vocal i guess
<katkin> juliux: gerry is busy at the mo, he'll be free in 30 mins or so, let me know if there is anything I can do to help tho
<gerr2> juliux: i'm here
<juliux> katkin, elkbuntu thxs,
<elkbuntu> juliux, no problem :)
<juliux> gerr2, do you have any news about the ubuntu lanycards?
<katkin> juliux: no worries :)
<gerr2> juliux: i've just mailed dell for you 
<gerr2> juliux: didn't get around to it yesterday
<juliux> gerr2, thxs
<juliux> gerr2, did you have something new about the lanycards? 
<juliux> gerr2, we still searching for some for the ubucon
<gerr2> turns out Michael and his boss are out til monday .
<gerr2> i'll try and think of another way
<juliux> thxs
<gerr2> juliux: i am asking about lanyards
<juliux> gerr2, a source where we can order them would be also ok
<gerr2> juliux: you there? 
<gerr2> juliux: i'm off for lunch - ping me in 30  good news i think on the lanyaqrds
<tonyyarusso> ubuntu lanyards?  anyone want to fill me in?
<elkbuntu> tonyyarusso, for the german ubucon i believe
<tonyyarusso> elkbuntu: ah
<gerr2> juliux: ping
<gerr2> they are for the German Ubucon yes
<juliux> gerr2, now i am here
<juliux> gerr2, i was also off for lunch
<juliux> and i am at work
<juliux> tonyyarusso, we need some lanyards for the german ubucon
<MitchM> Who knows the location of a very high-res ubuntu logo?
<MitchM> cant seem to find one
<katkin> these are all on ubuntu.com
<katkin> actually I lie - they are here - http://www.canonical.com/logos
<katkin> the eps formats are the highest resolution
<elkbuntu> svg works too
* jenda waves from a distance
<jenda> Artwork/Official on the wiki has the .svgs, methinks
<MitchM> thanks guys ;)
#ubuntu-marketing 2007-09-05
<beuno> jenda, ping
<jenda> beuno: pong
<juliux> morning
<juliux> hi gerr2 
<gerr2> morning
<popey> hey-ho
<juliux> gerr2, i am not sure if i can attend the meeting today
<juliux> gerr2, i will try it but i cann't promise it
<jenda> hey, juliux, gerr2
<juliux> hi jenda 
<jenda> Sorry for not being around, I have an important exam in 6 days
<juliux> jenda, if (learned) have fun; else good luck ;)
<jenda> :D
<jenda> aye aye
<popey> ooo it's today isn't it?
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-marketing.log
<gerr2> ahem, is anyone showing up? 
<juliux> gerr2, i hope but i can't promise , depends how long team meeting is here, it starts at 17:30 UTC+2
<popey> i will be
<popey> well, should be
<popey> 5pm UK Time yes? I suggested to J'oho! that he should attend after his messages about parties
<poningru_> when is the meeting?
<elkbuntu> about 10-15 mins i guess
<poningru_> sweet
<juliux> i think in 40min
<juliux> at 16:00UTC
* beuno has to run out, bank called and yadda yadda
<beuno> sorry  :/
<beuno> I'll be back in 2 hours aprox., I'll read the backlog
<popey> moo
<katkin_> Hi guys, Show of hands - who's here for the meeting?
* elkbuntu puts hand up
<elkbuntu> juliux, poningru 
<katkin_> Does everyone have access to the agenda?
<katkin_> It was in the mail that Gerry sent out
<elkbuntu> i do, but i think we ought to wait for others to arrive first
<juliux> sorry we ahve still team meeting here
<gerr2> ok can anyone attending please announce themselves as attending the meeting? 
<popey> yo
<gerr2> what's a quorum? i see 3 so far  - elkbuntu, popningru, popey, 
<popey> i have pasted the agenda you sent to the list here:- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Meeting
<popey> not sure we need to be quorate do we?
<gerr2> well are many more likely to join I am wondering? 
<Vorian> *raises hand
<gerr2> ok well let's start - can someone record these so if someone if interested they can read them? 
<gerr2> what canonical are doing 
<gerr2> we are going to get a countdown button and make it available to anyone that wants it to include on their sites and blogs 
<gerr2> this will countdown from Beta which is slated for 27th october to release so about 21 days 
<elkbuntu> so it will just count down the days?
<gerr2> the image will be on our server so the piece of code will point it and stay updated each day
<popey> 27 oct!? you sure about that?
<gerr2> september 
<popey> release is 19th oct isn't it?
<popey> phew
<gerr2> elkbuntu: what else might it count down
<popey> would be nice if it was an HH:MM:SS countdown
<Vorian> +1
<popey> then changes to a link to ubuntu.com/download when it gets to 00:00:00 :)
<poningru_> yarr
* poningru_ is
<popey> pretty simple to do in javascript
<elkbuntu> popey, it's rather hard for that, since the time of release isnt exactly strictly set, afaik
<poningru_> for the meeting
<popey> elkbuntu: good point
<gerr2> popey: that would kind of rely on us knowing the exact second of launch 
<popey> maybe it should be :)
<elkbuntu> and trust me, we dont want hoards descending wanting something that we cant offer...
* elkbuntu shudders
<popey> ok, so days only
<gerr2> dissemination though is my concern 
<gerr2> we can announce it here, put it ubuntu.com,mark's blog all that good stuff but anything else we ought to do? 
<elkbuntu> well, once it hits planet, it should go like wildfire
<elkbuntu> but poking forums people might help
<gerr2> elkbuntu: yeah, i think it might take care of itself 
<gerr2> but all helps 
<elkbuntu> yeah, the planet is a very powerful tool
<gerr2> it's going to be designed, fyi, but our fancy new creative agency
<gerr2> good test for them 
<elkbuntu> so long as it isnt in comic sans, i'll be happy no matter how it looks :
<gerr2> katkin_: include that in the brief - NO COMIC SANS
<popey> and it should be nice and easy to embed
<gerr2> videos
<katkin_> gerr2: will do :)
<gerr2> there are two vids we have in mind
<elkbuntu> gerr2, any design agency that even thinks about using comic sans ought to be given marching orders :)
<gerr2> one is a groovy 90 second trip through fiesty
<katkin_> gutsy
<gerr2> gutsy sorry
* popey tuts at the marketing types and their lack of product knowledge ;)
<gerr2> the next one
<katkin_> don't look at me!
<gerr2> whatever it's called
<katkin_> we've had a hard day :)
<gerr2> 7 something
<popey> :)
<popey> so will this be a real life video or more of a show and tell of the desktop?
<popey> a "screencast" if you will?
<gerr2> popey: anyhow  we want to include that on the front page so that people who are not going to download there and then will get a chance to have some experience of it 
<popey> excellent
<katkin_> I think it will be more of a sexy show and tell
<popey> excellent
<gerr2> again - like all our wok this is might distributable and for all to include where they might find useful 
<gerr2> video the second 
<gerr2> have you all seen https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyReleaseParties?highlight=%28parties%29
<gerr2> jono - put this up there  - anything that can be done to make this page well known the better 
<popey> it's a tricky one that
<elkbuntu> he doesnt appear to be here...
<popey> people all looking around at eachother "who's going to organise that then"
<popey> he was in a call when i suggested he be here elkbuntu 
<popey> gerr2: i suspect people are talking about events in their teams but not updating that page
<elkbuntu> is he surgically attached to phones or something?
<jono> schnoogins :)
<elkbuntu> well there's not a whole lot of a point to advertising something you dont have a venue for
<elkbuntu> which is probably the reason why there arent many confirmed
<popey> indeed
<gerr2> elkbuntu: agreed  - i think it is early but i would hate for people to be organising it and not availing of Jono's wonderful page. 
<poningru_> gerr2, I say we use a better app
<poningru_> like the firefox party app
<poningru_> they released that under mpl
<poningru_> my friend ryan did that one
<gerr2> ***gerry was silent for a moment as he was editing that page 
<jono> whats the discussion?
<popey> we could also use tools like upcoming.org and meetup ?
<elkbuntu> jono, release parties
<gerr2> as you can see we wold like people to send us video or photos of their parties and we will splice it together in a video for all to share
<poningru_> http://www.firefoxparty.com/
<popey> iirc sabdfl was at a meetup event in april to pimp the feisty release wasnt he?
<poningru_> take a look at that
<poningru_> I would like to use that web app for it
<popey> poningru_: that looks cool!
<jono> can I encourage everyone to raise the profile of the release parties pages I wrote
* popey notes that ubuntuparties.com is available :)
<gerr2> ***gerry looks at jono
<elkbuntu> haha
<jono> gerr2: did I do something wrong?
<poningru_> I say we do that
<poningru_> though I cant host it on my home dsl
<poningru_> I can administer it though
<popey> poningru_: I'd gladly host it
<gerr2> jono: can we use that app - would it help? 
<gerr2> the wiki seems to work ok for me? 
<popey> it's all web two point oh-y though
<popey> rather than a stuffy old wiki ;)
<jono> why do we need an app?
<gerr2> jono: because it exists
<popey> we don't _need_ an app
<jono> teams are welcome to use whatever they like to organise parties, but I think we just need a page listing the parties
<popey> how do we encourage people to organise parties?
<popey> which I think is the key issue
<elkbuntu> it would add an extra dimension to the parties scene. while we may not see a point, it might excite others greatly
<popey> getting people to actually get off their arses and organise one
<popey> elkbuntu +1
<jono> sorry folks I need to run to a meeting now
<jono> getting people off their arses to organise parties is something not solved with an app - that needs advocacy, blogging, positive reports of other planning etc
<elkbuntu> jono, the point is that every little bit helps
<Daviey> eloo
<popey> Daviey: i saw uk loco were talking about a party for gutsy
<gerr2> ok - guys there is possibly another meeting about launch party participation 
<popey> is that the case?
<Daviey> popey: yes
<popey> gerr2: indeed, and I would schedule it to happen in #ubuntu-meeting, and promote it on the fridge
<gerr2> but i need to move on to next topic
<popey> rather than just on the marketing mailing list
<jono> I say we suggest people can use organisation apps if they want for their own organisation, but not to suggest it as part of the process of running a party
<elkbuntu> gerr2, i think there'll need to be, and find some way of tying the community manager to attending would be good
<Daviey> popey: But there is a big disagreement on where it should be ... Brum or London
<popey> Daviey: have two
<elkbuntu> bah, i was trying to not highlight you, and you're still here!
<Daviey> popey: but i live equadistance between the two!
<popey> flip a coin
<popey> I will pay for beer for you!
<popey> to attend the one I am not at :)
<elkbuntu> lol
<Daviey> $%^&^*
<gerr2> London and I can go
<jono> tying the community manager?
<elkbuntu> such nice friends
<jono> biab
<elkbuntu> jono, so you dont run off to other meetings :)
<jono> elkbuntu:  :)
<Daviey> How can i make an offical complaint against a ubuntu member being offensive?
<jono> I never knew about this meeting btw
<popey> \o/
<elkbuntu> makes talking to you a tad difficult
<gerr2> [ACTION]  tie up jono
<jono> well, it wasnt on my calendar
<jono> hehe
<popey> gerr2: shall we schedule a meeting and pimp it greatly?
<elkbuntu> which is somewhat part of the solution
<popey> specifically about this subject?
<gerr2> right -  does anyone care about what we are doing to prevent the website crashing?
<Daviey> fridge website?
<popey> you cloned elmo?
<popey> *shudder*
<elkbuntu> popey, you are a horrible horrible man
<elkbuntu> you even *thought* that
<poningru_> lol
<gerr2> is it sufficient to say it won't crash? 
<popey> i just pictured the cover of Being John Malkovich with lots of elmos
<elkbuntu> gerr2, depends, is that in the tone of the titanic?
<popey> gerr2: I wouldn't publicise it to be honest
<popey> because if it did, the digg and /. crowd would rain down on you from on high
<elkbuntu> yeah. last thing you want to do is ... challenge people
<gerr2> elkbuntu: very good point - next topic 
<gerr2> press releases for the launch. We can make these available for localisation but I note we are all anglophone on this list so maybe not appropriate
<popey> contact the loco list?
<gerr2> ***gerry realises he has no idea where poningru is from
<gerr2> popey: that's what I will do
* popey notes gerr2 needs to type /me  rather than *** gerry
<gerr2> really? i'm too old for this IM stuff 
<Daviey> IM!
<popey> heh
<gerr2> IRC
<popey> was all fields round here you know
<elkbuntu> the problem with the loco list is that some on there may not be entirely trustworthy enough for the task of keeping to an embargo
<Daviey> baa
<Daviey> 'embargo'?
<gerr2> elkbuntu: i don't think we would give it to them under embargo 
<elkbuntu> ah, right. i misunderstood then
<gerr2> right - so anyone on the list got plans for launch? 
<elkbuntu> Daviey, the 'please dont send this out/pass this on, until $DATE'
<Daviey> elkbuntu: What would be the problem if it got leaked?
<Daviey> Surely the more exposure it gets, the better?
<popey> Daviey: less impact
<elkbuntu> im not in an ideal place for any decent sort of launch function, unfortunately
<popey> dribble vs splash
<popey> gerr2: I'd like to see a party in london, if the ubuntu-uk guys sort one in brum, I'd gladly help sort one in London
<elkbuntu> Daviey, people coming in 6 hrs before the ISO is released, demanding it because some site said it was out
<elkbuntu> in HOARDS
<popey> that will happen anyway
<Daviey> That _always_ happens
<popey> but yes, we dont want to encourage it
<gerr2> Daviey: the problem is hat we ask journalists to respect the embargo so we have time to brief them. if they hold off on the stories and it is then on someone's blog they are not very happy
<elkbuntu> of course it does. the sotry always breaks embargo
<elkbuntu> gerr2, embargo isnt really worth a whole lot, no
* Daviey would like to see the community press release made on either the wiki or gobby
<popey> there is nothing stopping the community making a press release
<popey> surely?
<popey> but is gerr2 not talking about a canonical press release?
<elkbuntu> yes
<gerr2> popey: gerr2 is or /me is 
<Daviey> Should a canonical press release concern the loco ML?
<elkbuntu> Daviey, to have it translated, sure
<gerr2> elkbuntu: exactly
<Daviey> elkbuntu: why not use the LP transalters?
<Daviey> salters eh?
<elkbuntu> Daviey, because there'd be absolutely zero embargo with that
<Daviey> I mean.. contact experienced translaters individually and ask them to do it
<gerr2> Daviey: there is nothing to prevent a community announcement except not sure who could agree that it reflects the wide opinion of the community
<popey> true
<Daviey> gerr2: wiki snapshot ftw ;)
<gerr2> Daviey: what? 
<Daviey> sorry.. If it is written on the wiki - and copied on a certain date.. It _may_ reflect more peoples opinions
<gerr2> Daviey: i am staying well clear of it
<Daviey> Is there an agenda for this meeting?
<gerr2> popey: apart from having a party in london I mean are there other activities that the community would do/has done around launch where we could help or encourage? 
<popey> ahhh
<popey> Daviey: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Meeting
<popey> gerr2: tricky one
<Daviey> a community photo competition.. been tried before i know - but with more 'exposure' (`scuse the phun)
<popey> personally I'm doing my bit ;) - the screencasts are designed to lead up to launch
<popey> unfortunately I'm not a marketeer so I'm probably not the best one to ask about how best to market the product in the community
<elkbuntu> community photo things are great for people who will have parties near them. should we not think about some other way those more remote can contribute to the spirit, rather than sit back and watch everyone else having the fun?
<Daviey> elkbuntu: any suggestions?
<elkbuntu> Daviey, i was hoping to get some from you guys
<katkin_> we could ask people to send us photos of the most interesting places that they are downloading gutsy
* popey bets 20 quid you'll get numerous people taking photos of themselves in the smallest room in the house :)
<gerr2> elkbuntu: the most remote? the highest? the driest? the wettest? 
<katkin_> or in the loo?
<popey> yeah, categories tham
<katkin_> thats a good idea
<popey> competitions..
<katkin_> maybe not wettest though
<popey> free stuff!
<Daviey> sabdfl will no doubt go back to space to win the competition
<katkin_> wouldn't want people electrocuting themselves
<gerr2> the meeting rooms in canonical towers are named after the most extreme places on earth so there is a link
* popey giggles at canonical towers
<popey> "Extreme Ubuntu!"
* katkin_ shivers in canonical towers
<popey> Dude!
<gerr2> Daviey: we'll ban him 
<katkin_> A prize for the gutsiest place someone downloads gutsy
<gerr2> Extreme Ubuntu! like it 
<popey> ooooo 
<popey> How Gutsy are you!
<popey> naked gutsy
<popey> *shudder*
<katkin_> A prize for someone who downloads gutsy with a real gibbon next to them
<katkin_> urgh - naked gutsy?!
<elkbuntu> lol
<Daviey> katkin_: that's too winnable
<katkin_> Daviey: really?
<popey> yeah, anyone in my office would fulfil that role
<elkbuntu> a photo of a gibbon downloading gutsy?
<Daviey> katkin_: i live 20 mins from the zoo with gibbons
<katkin_> Daviey: how many people do you know who have access to a real gibbon?
<elkbuntu> that would require training the beast ;)
<katkin_> Daviey: ah
<katkin_> Daviey: fair enough
<popey> elkbuntu: Daviey doesn't need training
<popey> he can pretty much flush on his own now
<Daviey> *wrong*
<Daviey> and i leave the seat up \o/
<elkbuntu> owww.. my ribs hurt
<popey> i do like the gutsyest download
<Daviey> me 2
<katkin_> cool
<Daviey> "Have you got the Gut's do download it?"
<Daviey> s/do/to
<katkin_> I'm earning my creative marketing pennies then :)
<elkbuntu> um.. that's hardly a positive enforcement there
<katkin_> not sure what will happen when Hardy Heron launches . . . . . .
<popey> wonder how many people would class "sitting outside my neighbours house stealing his wifi" as gutsy
<elkbuntu> we want downloading to seem easy and friendly, not scary and nervewracking
<Daviey> popey: That's your everyday net connection, is it not?
<katkin_> popey: some I'm sure
<Daviey> Does a 'difficult' download show that it's worth DL'ing?
<gerr2> Extreme Ubuntu gives us lots of winners
* popey nods
<poningru_> sorry guys at work
<gerr2> driest highest lowest wierdest
<poningru_> so coming in and out
<popey> yeah
<katkin_> gutsyest
<popey> be nice if there was a site we could have people upload their pics too
<popey> and tag them 
<popey> "fast" "high" etc
<katkin_> we could offer vouchers for the store as prizes
<katkin_> unless you guys have other ideas?
<popey> ooooo.. nice idea
<gerr2> and pay the shipping:)
<popey> that would go down well :)
<katkin_> :D
<elkbuntu> yep
<gerr2> I suggest we devise 8 categories and 2 wild cards
<popey> should we setup a little site where people can upload their pics
<popey> some people wont want to put them on flickr etc
<elkbuntu> katkin_, also remember that nearly any item with Mark's signature on it will attract interest
<popey> heh, or anything mark has breathed near
<katkin_> elkbuntu: noted
* Daviey afkb
<popey> now here's a tricky problem
<popey> if we want them to photo themselves downloading...
<katkin_> elkbuntu: I'll see if I can get him to sign, lick or rub some merchandise
<popey> the photos wont be available until after the release
<katkin_> that's ok
<gerr2> ok  - I am going to put up a wiki page linked off launch parties 
<popey> so you'd need to announce this on the day of release
<elkbuntu> katkin_, if it involves licking, we want photos to laugh at
<katkin_> or before so people can start preparing?
<popey> yeah, true
<gerr2> popey: not at all. we want people to start thinking about it. 
<popey> would be nice if it was a separate site, with picture upload, tagging and commenting
<katkin_> i agree
<katkin_> it should be separate to the launch parties section
<popey> howgutsyareyou.com or something
<gerr2> popey: for the moment i am going to put up a wiki where us marketing (ie. me kat and al on the list) can sort out some details
<popey> cool
<gerr2> that is all on the list  - not al specifically
<gerr2> i gots to run. i think extreme ubuntu might come off;
<katkin_> me too
<elkbuntu> so long as it does better than that poor effort LUGradio did...
<katkin_> thanks very much for coming veryone
<elkbuntu> katkin_, no problem
<katkin_> it would be great if we could all have a meeting every month :)
<katkin_> it's great getting your input
<katkin_> Have a great day/evening (depending on where you are)
* katkin_ waves bye
<popey> i would recommend you schedule the meeting now
<elkbuntu> lol
<popey> many teams schedule their next meeting at the end of the last one
<popey> bum
<Daviey> Photo's could be of the RC?
<Daviey> wonder what the community manager thinks of all this?
<poningru_> hey
<poningru_> so what happened
<poningru_> OMG
<poningru_> http://lwn.net/Articles/248227/
<tristanbob> poningru: wow - that is TERRIFIC if true
<gerr2> tristanbob: it's true
<tristanbob> so they are creating new drivers from scratch (because of licensing?)
<gerr2> tristanbob: i just realised that the release is not official yet or at least I have not seen it publically so I can't talk about it 
<tristanbob> gerr2: are you saying you have more info, but can't talk until it is publicly announced?
<poningru_> oh man I wonder when it becomes public
<poningru_> gerr2, when is the hold till?
<juliux> gerr2, sorry that i missed the meeting
<gerr2> g'night all 
#ubuntu-marketing 2007-09-06
<tonyyarusso> elkbuntu: how goes the survey results?
<juliux> morning
<katkin> popey: ping
<popey> katkin: pong
<katkin> popey: could you give me a contact number for you? We need it for the things we are sending to you
<katkin> popey: and do you have one for gary as well?
<popey> 07973 620164
<popey> is my mobile number
<katkin> thanks - and gary's?
* popey digs
* katkin is grateful to popey for digging . . .
<elkbuntu> woohoo! /me prank calls popey
<popey> hahah
* katkin wonders how long popey will need to dig or whether she should mail gary?
<katkin> :)
<elkbuntu> gary probably wont be far off being online anyway
<popey> sorry katkin I dont have it
<katkin> popey: no worries, thanks for looking
<popey> oo oo hang on
<katkin> what is gary's IRC nick?
<popey> Gary or GazzaK
<Daviey> GazzaK or Gary
<popey> I have one more place to look
<katkin> ok, pretty straightforward then
<Daviey> i have his mobile number
<katkin> ok . . .
<elkbuntu> ask in -uk, surely someone else there might have it?
<Daviey> I'd rather not give it out.. but i can pass a message on?
<Daviey> Do i need to read scrollback, or can somebody give me the hihlights?
<popey> wooot
<popey> got it
<popey> Daviey: does the one you have end in 97?
<Daviey> lemme check
<popey> katkin: you have prv
<Daviey> popey: yes
<katkin> prv?
<popey> private message
<popey> I'll mail it to you :)
<katkin> ok, thanks
<katkin> :)
<popey> sent
<elkbuntu> you really ought to register your nickname, katkin :)
* popey also spams Davieys number all over the wiki
<katkin> register it?
<popey> katkin: if you register your nickname "katkin" then nobody else can use it, and you can receive private messages from people
<elkbuntu> yep, so nobody else can take it, and we can be sure it's you we are talking to :)
<Daviey> Daviey's number.... which one?
<katkin> aha
<katkin> how would I do that?
<popey>  /msg nickserv register
<Daviey> katkin: /msg nick...
<popey> ^ that katkin 
<Daviey> popey: too damn fast
<popey> too slow Daviey :)
<katkin> I'm still not following. . . . do I have to type that somewhere?
* katkin blushes at being so dim when it comes to techhie stuff
<katkin> :(
<elkbuntu> irc isnt the easiest thing to learn, so dont be worried about not knowing stuff
<popey> yes, type it right here
<popey> katkin: irc is somewhat geeky
<katkin>  /msg nickserv register
<popey> without the space
<popey>  / needs to be the first character on the line
<katkin> do I have to type my nick somewhere in that?
<katkin> aha
<popey> it will tell you what to do
<katkin> ?
<Daviey> If only we had a screencast, showing how to use irc :)
* katkin is scared
<popey> ooooooo 
<elkbuntu> you mean there isnt one?
<Daviey> Basic one IIRC
<popey> that's a very good idea
<katkin> IRC for dummies
<Daviey> IRC for canonical staff?
<popey> there is one for joining irc, but it doesn't show nick registration
<elkbuntu> bad popey
<katkin> so I managed to do this >nickserv< register
<katkin> does that mean my nick is registered now?
<katkin> I'm guessing not . . .
<elkbuntu> did nickserv reply with anything?
<Daviey> katkin: What irc application are you using?
<popey> you need to do "/msg nickserv register SOMEPASSWORD"
<popey> without the quotes, and choose your own password
* popey suspects katkin is using GAIM
<elkbuntu> probably, and remembering to the last time i used gaim for irc, nickserv's response is probably in some convoluted place
<elkbuntu> katkin, you seem to be registered now, excellent. now make sure you remember the password
<katkin> elkbuntu: will do
<elkbuntu> katkin, if you tell us what you are connecting to IRC with, we can tell you how to make the program automatically 'identify' you to the nickserv robot
* katkin admits to cheating by asking Spads to help
<elkbuntu> hehe
<elkbuntu> if he is there with you, ask him to help you do what i suggested above :)
<elkbuntu> it will make it alot easier
<katkin> he says he will
<katkin> I'm using XChat - GNOME
<katkin> but I have a new machine coming tomoro
<katkin> so might start using a different app
<Daviey> katkin: you can't go too far wrong with Xchat
<popey> yeah, it's not so bad
<elkbuntu> katkin, well spads will be able to help you put your password in so you identify automatically with the new machine ;)
<katkin> elkbuntu: cool
<katkin> Daviey: thats good to know
<katkin> even tho I've been with Canonical for 3 months now I still have loads to learn about Ubuntu!
<elkbuntu> katkin, that's probably an ideal situation for you to be though. you're finding all the cool things about it, and you know how to get it across without the techie bias most of us have
<katkin> elkbuntu: that's a very nice way of putting it :)
<popey> would be nice if new users like yourself could keep a log of those things you find a) difficult b) different c) hard, so that we can fix them, or create better documentation, tutorials, screencasts etc
<popey> one of the problems I have as a long term user of Linux and Ubuntu is that i don't know what people don't know
<popey> so for example the screencasts I make are made based on my guess of what people want
<popey> not through a poll or survey or anything
<elkbuntu> hmm... well i want either a mouse that doesnt jump all over the place, or some way to make the gnome panel launchers need two clicks rather than one
<elkbuntu> i still dont know if the latter is possible
<popey> those are bugs/wishlists IMO, I was more thinking of those moments when you ask "how do I do this?"
<elkbuntu> yeah, i only brought it up because i just opened openoffice when trying to do something else
<elkbuntu> great for efficiency, and all that jazz
<elkbuntu> </rant>
<elkbuntu> anyway, i need to drive 2 hrs to a group interview (oh joy! oh rapture!) tomorrow, so im going to head off
<popey> you're going for a job!
* popey falls over
<elkbuntu> i go for many jobs
<elkbuntu> most just never bother to reply to my application
<elkbuntu> if i succeed with this, i will be working in a call center. ever so much fun
<elkbuntu> i so bags not doing the shifts that cooincide with dinner times
<Daviey> group interview... like a support group - but an interview?
<Daviey> "My name is elkbuntu, and i'm a ubuntu addict"
<elkbuntu> basically
<elkbuntu> i've been to several where they stick you in a room and make you do personality tests, roleplay and stuff like that
<elkbuntu> some can be downright ridiculous
<elkbuntu> given this is for a callcenter, i'm imagining alot of roleplay :(
<Daviey> $%^& that for a game of soldiers
<elkbuntu> anyway, me > bed
<tristanbob> is tribe 6 out yet?
<popey> there is no tribe 6
<popey> </rumour>
<blahdeblah> Hi.  Is there a 1 or 2 page PDF flyer available that would be suitable for promoting Ubuntu's benefits to the average home (non-Linux-literate) user?
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/Leaflets
#ubuntu-marketing 2007-09-07
<blahdeblah> popey: Thanks
<popey> np
<juliux> morning
<jenda> juliux: mornin'
<juliux> hi jenda 
<jenda> Was there anything you needed?
<juliux> jenda, lanyards;)
<jenda> ah
<jenda> you want me to ask my printer guy if he can make them?
<juliux> why not
<jenda> Sure, I can ask
<jenda> Although it might take me a bit, I'm way too busy now :(
<jenda> beuno: and you also pung?
<juliux> jenda, i need them for ubucon in germany, so 20/21 ocotober
<jenda> juliux: ok, I'll ask him the next time I see him online
<jenda> would you have a link to a picture?
<jenda> and how many would you be interested in
<juliux> we are interested in 500- 1000
<jenda> I won't be able to sell them myself, but I can get you a bulk order that you could resell yourself, along with the shirts.
<jenda> alright
<juliux> yeah
<juliux> we have the first supermarket which is offering an ubuntu pc in some areas
<juliux> http://jacobs-it.de/UbuntuBeiPlus.jpg
<beuno> jenda, pong
<juliux> hi beuno 
<beuno> hey juliux 
<jenda> yo
<jenda> beuno?
<jenda> you were the first to ping ;)
<beuno> jenda, really?  I'm not even sure anymore
<beuno> how are you?  :D
<jenda> beuno: busy :(
<jenda> (So much should be obvious by now :D)
<jenda> I have an exam on Wednesday, and once that's done... it's the goddamn translation again - the publisher came up with an extra chapter of appendices :/
#ubuntu-marketing 2007-09-08
<dergringo> jenda: ;)
#ubuntu-marketing 2007-09-09
<Vorian> Welcome to the Ubuntu Marketing Team's IRC channel | We're here to fix Bug #1 | Keep in mind that whatever your LoCo  does, any other LoCo can benefit from your work or experience! | Please sign up to the mailing list, ubuntu-marketing at lists.ubuntu.com | Beuno  is doing UWN | UWN #55 is out! UWN #56 is in progress to be released Sunday September 9th | Happy Birthday Boredandblogging!!!!
<Vorian> oops
* mode/#ubuntu-marketing [+o Vorian]  by ChanServ
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-marketing:Vorian] : Welcome to the Ubuntu Marketing Team's IRC channel | We're here to fix Bug #1 | Keep in mind that whatever your LoCo  does, any other LoCo can benefit from your work or experience! | Please sign up to the mailing list, ubuntu-marketing at lists.ubuntu.com | Beuno  is doing UWN | UWN #55 is out! UWN #56 is in progress to be released Sunday September 9th | Happy Birthday Boredandblogging!!!!
* mode/#ubuntu-marketing [-o Vorian]  by ChanServ
* johnc4510 anyone around who could translate from german to english for me? for UWN article  (it's not to long!)
<juliux> johnc4510, do you need informations about the ubuntu pc at a german discounter?
<johnc4510> juliux: http://ubuntuusers.de/ikhaya/685/
<juliux> johnc4510, there you have your third hand;)
<dennda> hey there
<johnc4510> hey
<juliux> johnc4510, the short version is that the german discounter plus is seeling in some areas a pc with ubuntu
<dennda> what needs to be done?
<juliux> johnc4510, the pc is only for office use because it has a via grafic chip
<juliux> dennda, http://ubuntuusers.de/ikhaya/685/ 
* johnc4510 needs title and brief summary
<dennda> that needs to be translated? lemme take a look
<juliux> dennda, yes johnc4510 needs an english version for the uwn
<johnc4510> dennda: so i can put in uwn
<dennda> German Discounter selling low-price PCs for Office use with Ubuntu preinstalled
* dennda is cooking noodles. Thus I am semi-afk for the moment
<johnc4510> ah
<johnc4510> i need what it says below the specs too please
<dennda> let me translate this word by word
<dennda> Ubuntu seems to attract more and more attention. The German Discounter Plus now offers Office-PCs with Ubuntu 7.04 preinstalled in some of their stores. 
<dennda> The specs of the computer are: $list_of_specs
<johnc4510> yep
<johnc4510> now the two lines below specs please :)
<dennda> As you may learn from these specs the PC is intended for office use only. The graphics card for example isn't that powerful but should be sufficient enough for normal office-use.
<dennda> so the price is well-chosen.
<dennda> (you may not want to add this)
<johnc4510> kk
<dennda> nooooodles!
<johnc4510> dennda: if that's it  thanks a bunch
<johnc4510> :)
<johnc4510> juliux: thanks to you too!!
<juliux> johnc4510, you are welcome to ask dennda for translation things;) he is a student at holiday;)
<johnc4510> juliux: kk ty
* juliux hopes that dennda will not read the line above
<johnc4510> ah
<johnc4510> lol
<dennda> johnc4510: no there's still stuff i didn't yet translate. /me will eat his noodles now and then translate :)
<johnc4510> dennda: ok, just highlight my nick and i will see, ty
<dennda> The offer has been seen in the local stores of Kevelaer, Bonn, Cologne, Aachen, Neuss, Erftstadt,...
<dennda> @ johnc4510 
<johnc4510> kk
<johnc4510> ty
* beuno yawns
<beuno> mornin'
<johnc4510> beuno: morning
<beuno> johnc4510, now that I think of it, you probably don't know that we have an #ubuntu-news channel setup
<johnc4510> nope
<johnc4510> hee hee
<beuno> at some point I think a specific team for UWN, Full Circle, Fridge, etc will be setup
<johnc4510> cool
<beuno> and most of the times we discuss UWN with boredandblogging there
<johnc4510> kk
<johnc4510> joining
<beuno> so it's probably a good idea you hang around :D
<beuno> (everyone else is invited too)
* dergringo is getting bothersome because he pings jenda again ;)
#ubuntu-marketing 2008-09-01
<dinostabOMG> allo?
<bbyever> hi
<dinostabOMG> hi
<dinostabOMG> this is my first time on IRC but I want to help the marketing team if possible, ive been using ubuntu for a little more than a year
<dinostabOMG> sorry if I wildly offend anyone with my noobishness
<Flannel> dinostabOMG: Everyone's new sometimes, and no one on IRC gets offended easily anyway
<dinostabOMG> haha cool
<dinostabOMG> am i in the right place?
<dinostabOMG> i'm an animator and motion graphics designer, and i have an idea for a few short animated plugs for intrepid i am planning to do
<dinostabOMG> and i thought i might let everyone know what im up to and see if i can integrate that with the marketing team's goals in any particular way
<dinostabOMG> anyone have any thoughts about that
<Flannel> dinostabOMG: animated plugs sound good
<dinostabOMG> thanks. are there any particulars i should keep in mind before i get started or should i just get cracking
<Flannel> dinostabOMG: I imagine just go for it would be best.
<Flannel> or at least, good.
<dinostabOMG> sounds good
<dinostabOMG> catch you later
<meoblast001> HIIIIIII
<meoblast001> Flannel: my sister and i thought up a funny commercial idea for Ubuntu
<meoblast001> Flannel?
<meoblast001> i want to tell you the idea
<Flannel> meoblast001: Alright
<meoblast001> Flannel: we have 2 ppl
<meoblast001> and one says..... "i just got a new computer.... then i went out and bought my operating system.... then i intalled it... my computer is running nice"
<meoblast001> and then another guy says "wait a second"
<meoblast001> "ppl actually buy operating systems?.... i thought that was a fairy tale"
<meoblast001> Flannel: what do you think"
<meoblast001> ?*
<Flannel> meoblast001: Its sort of ambiguous.  You could be alluding to piracy just as easily to FOSS
<Flannel> not that the idea is bad, it just needs some polishing
<meoblast001> Flannel: well that wouldnt be the end
<Flannel> ah!
<meoblast001> it would then cut out with a ubuntu logo
<meoblast001> and have a narraator
<meoblast001> say "Ubuntu is free software.... it is available free of charge and is GNU software"
<meoblast001> something like that
<meoblast001> Flannel: would that make it better?
<Flannel> the content of the commercial (the stuff where people are actually doing whatever) would still be ambiguous and not really tied to Ubuntu at all.  Of course, there are plenty of 'real' commercials out there that do the same thing, so I guess its not the end of the world
<meoblast001> Flannel: we need something funny
<meoblast001> funny does 2 things
<meoblast001> it keeps the commercial in the persons mind
<meoblast001> and it gives a more laid back look to the product
<meoblast001> something Ubuntu desperately needs
<meoblast001> just because it's linux, some ppl like to think it's really hard to use
<rjian> hello can give me links for UWN?
<hubuntu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter
 * shahriar86 is away: Gone away for now.
 * shahriar_away is back.
#ubuntu-marketing 2008-09-05
<shahriar86> Hi is there any possibility of marketing team meeting this saturday?
#ubuntu-marketing 2009-08-31
<varunthacker> is there an idea of a campus ambassador in colleges promoting ubuntu?
#ubuntu-marketing 2009-09-01
<MenZa> &W 61
#ubuntu-marketing 2009-09-05
<Rawplayer> hi
<Rawplayer> is it possible to recieve posters for educations on universitys that are involved with opensource and related stuff?
<Rawplayer> s/recieve/receive/
<Rawplayer> we moved with our education called system & network engineering to a whole new location but our lab is clinical white, and i'm trying to find *nix/*networking related posters
<Rawplayer> the website from our education is www.os3.nl
<Rawplayer> the picture on the frontpage is our lab
<Takyoji> Try looking around on the wiki https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Materials or otherwise SpreadUbuntu http://spreadubuntu.neomenlo.org/
<Takyoji> otherwise that's just digital files
<Takyoji> It's all I'm aware of at hand
<Rawplayer> okay
<Takyoji> otherwise feel free to wait and see if others have anything in mind
#ubuntu-marketing 2009-09-06
<Rawplayer> hello pascalaldo 
<Rawplayer> pascalaldo: i notice that you are dutch too, can i talk with you in private?
<Takyoji> Anyone know where I might be able to find an estimate number of the total number of contributors to Linux?
#ubuntu-marketing 2010-09-08
<seidos> hi everybody.  i just did this this flier for my loco, was wondering if anyone had any thoughts or pointers:  http://imagebin.org/113162
<seidos> well, updated it, removed the copyrighted monopoly graphic:  http://imagebin.org/113174
#ubuntu-marketing 2010-09-10
<seidos> when i searched google for "alternatives to windows" zero hits were ubuntu.com
#ubuntu-marketing 2015-09-03
<Na3iL> o/ Hello there 
