#ubuntu-artwork 2005-09-19
<crimsun> anyone around for an artwork question? I've e-mailed the creator of the b-m-p skin at https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/869 and am awaiting a response. Is there protocol for replacing the default non-free skin for b-m-p, or should I just shove it in with the next upload?
<crimsun> Apologies if this isn't the correct channel for such discussion; I assumed artwork changes need to be approved through some committee.
<klepas> moin
<klepas> anyone awake?
#ubuntu-artwork 2005-09-20
<nekohayo> AndyFitz, are you on the usplash team?
<AndyFitz> nekohayo, kindof
<nekohayo> I have a question... why not make a border around the progress bar?
<nekohayo> is that on purpose?
<AndyFitz> the current design conflicts with what I had wanted.  thats really all I can say. I'm not responsible for it
<nekohayo> no no I'm not accusing or anything :
<nekohayo> :)
<nekohayo> just wanted to know...
<nekohayo> (because I felt it was odd to not be able to know "where the progressbar ends"
<AndyFitz> between dithering, a shotty palette a lame ass design interfering progressbar....  id say any given users first impressions of ubuntu have been shot in the foot
<AndyFitz> I agree mate
<AndyFitz> mention this to jdub
<nekohayo> how?
<nekohayo> mail?
<AndyFitz> mail or irc
<AndyFitz> hes on freenote at the moment
<nekohayo> um, either I'm too stupid to use xchat or he's away because it seems the dcc chat timed out... I'll drop a mail
<FR500> hey
<FR500> will the default theme change for breezy?
<FR500> for instance something like edubuntu's
<klepas> moin
<miketech> servus
<klepas> servus?
<klepas> moin
<klepas> :(
<klepas> anyone awake at this hour?
#ubuntu-artwork 2005-09-22
<klepas> moin
<AndyFitz> g'day
<klepas> aussie?
<klepas> :o)
<klepas> i'm gonna go
* klepas has a date with breezy badger beta for a bug-hunt
<AndyFitz> L(  ciao klepas 
<AndyFitz> L(  = :)
<klepas> cheerio
#ubuntu-artwork 2005-09-24
<klepas> anyone awake?
#ubuntu-artwork 2005-09-25
<volvoguy> AndyFitz, how's it going? sorry i dropped off the planet again. my back's been really bad again lately. how are the icons going? 
<kamstrup> Is there any plans for a metacity theme?
<kamstrup> ... for Breezy that is?
<volvoguy> clearlooks should be the default theme for breezy. 
<kamstrup> For GTK of course, yes. But also for metacity? 
<volvoguy> i believe so, although i'm half asleep. 
<volvoguy> help my brain. which bits does metacity draw? 
<kamstrup> Window borders.
<volvoguy> yep. that should be clearlooks. 
<kamstrup> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopArtwork mentions this bug: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13305
<volvoguy> most likely "human" controls and tentatively titled "humility" icon theme. 
<kamstrup> The bug report refers to this screenie: http://gnome-look.org/content/pre2/27516-2.jpg
<kamstrup> I really think that those colored buttons is the wayu to go from an accesibilty point of view
<volvoguy> i don't have exceptionally good eyes, and i use 1600x1200 resolution and the windows are quite clear to me. 
<volvoguy> i'm not sure what bright colors would fix, with a large percentage of the world's male population having some degree of color blindness. 
<kamstrup> Both of parents-in-law regularly hit the wrong buttons...
<kamstrup> Pilgrim (the theme in the screenshot) has two advantages: 1) Clear distinction of buttons through colors. 2) Bigger (wider) buttons are easier to hit.
<volvoguy> i think a better solution would be the availability of a high(er) contrast theme, but not make that the default. 
<volvoguy> just as the other two primary desktop OS's ship with more accessible themes, but have one with broader visual appeal as the default. 
<kamstrup> Mandriva ships a HighContrast Theme but I wouldn't put those on any desktops unless the users where visually impared in a big way
<kamstrup> WinXP has big buttons on the window border, and the X is red
<volvoguy> something that will happen in the future, but not in time for breezy is integration of the "gnome-art" app. with about 3 mouse clicks a user can preview, download and install any theme on art.ubuntu.com or art.gnome.org. 
<volvoguy> i think variety is a better solution than trying to please everyone with one theme. 
<kamstrup> Oh, but we have no choice but to try an please everyone with one theme :-)
<kamstrup> I have helped install Ubuntu on 5-10 of my friends machines, and  non of them have changed the default theme
<volvoguy> i'm physically handicapped. should i expect every store i visit to have electric carts for me to ride in, or should i choose to only go to the stores that provide that? 
<kamstrup> ... and then there are my parent-in-law. They're _certainly_ not going toi change the theme :-)
<volvoguy> but they can, especially if it's made as easy as i hope. :)
<volvoguy> are you using breezy now? 
<kamstrup> yes
<volvoguy> what is your default window border?
<kamstrup> Right now it is Human. But that's a long story...
<volvoguy> i'm actually not sure if they've switched the default to clearlooks yet. 
<kamstrup> It's usually Pilgrim.
<kamstrup> I actually prefer Human over Clearlooks window borders, if it comes down to that
<volvoguy> canonical hasn't been great about keeping us "in the know" concerning some of these details. 
<kamstrup> I've actually been wondering how much "power" (if any) the art team has
<volvoguy> yeah. i'm the team lead and i've been wondering the same thing. 
<kamstrup> The way I figured it, we are supposed to deliver a full theme (gtk, metacity, icon), and they will consider it... 
<kamstrup> Isn't there a bounty for it?
<volvoguy> there isn't a bounty that i know of. 
<volvoguy> but yes, ideally a custom theme was desired. 
* kamstrup is looking for a ref.
<volvoguy> unfortunately we seem to have a lot of obstacles to overcome. our team was created fairly late in the game, we *thought* we were waiting for hardware for a server before we really got started, and we thought there would be tons of members. 
<volvoguy> at this point i'll be happy if andrew can get the icons finished. 
<kamstrup> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopArtwork actually speak of a "Ubuntu Artwork Challenge"
<volvoguy> i haven't quite figured out how to get everyone working together when everyone wants to work on their own thing. 
<kamstrup> A fixed plan is always a good thing. One where you can put check marks as things gets done.
<volvoguy> that page is a good example of our current state of confusion. none of the canonical people are involved in what we do really, and there's barely enough of us to create all those items and have several options to choose from. 
<volvoguy> i could sit down and create each item on that page in an afternoon, but without knowing our authority, it could be a waste of a perfectly good afternoon. 
<volvoguy> regarding the artwork challenge - a number of people have repeatedly emailed jeff waugh about it (apparently he suggested it) and he's never said another word about it. 
<kamstrup> yes... It's very frustrating. I also submitted to the "Breezy Mascot Competition". That one also got drowned in silence.
<volvoguy> we could now mention it on art.ubuntu.com, but that gives the world 9 days to create and vote on the complete theme. 
<kamstrup> 9 days... That's for to long time! :-D
<kamstrup> I work best under _real_ pressure :-D
<volvoguy> i'm having surgery shortly after breezy's release. i'm hoping someone like andrew will take over as lead, even if it's only temporarily, and have a heart-to-heart with the appropriate canonical person. 
<volvoguy> we need to know how far our authority goes, what requirements canonical has for each graphic element. define "the team". distribute tasks..... 
<kamstrup> Jeff Waugh is jdub, right? He's on #ubuntu-devel atvm...
<volvoguy> i had planned on getting a lot done before breezy, none of which was artwork directly. making how-to's on the wiki, setting goals.... unfortunately my medical issues have prevented me from doing much of that lately. 
<volvoguy> yep. jdub. 
<kamstrup> We could ask him right now... Get him cornered ;-P
<volvoguy> as in "indubstrial" - see... he knows about creating themes. he could point us in the right direction.
<volvoguy> i don't want to do that personally at this point. i've begged him for some assistance several times and haven't heard a word back from him. 
<kamstrup> All I need to know is; will they even consider it, if we submit a full theme...
<volvoguy> you're welcome to go bug him about the theme/mascot contest issues though. :) i've just decided that he's not concerned with assisting our team. 
<kamstrup> ok. I'll try if I can get some attention on #ubuntu-devel
* kamstrup is diving in
<volvoguy> the problem with that though, is that there's so few of us it will nearly be a 1-2 man project with 3-4 people voting. 
<volvoguy> it could be done, but i personally don't think we could out do human or clearlooks in 9 days. 
<volvoguy> and on that note, i need to go. i'm so drugged up i'm drooling on the keyboard. i'll try to hang out as much as possible tomorrow though for more brainstorming. this was a good chat tonight. :o) 
<volvoguy> g'night for now. 
<kamstrup> Just for the record (as I expect no one is listening right now), we might package a theme and get a MOTU to include it in universe. Not that it would be easier to find here, than on art.ubuntu.com though.
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-09-18
<Jak08> hello again people
<Jak08> Ok, I have a question, I do wish to be an active member of the artwork team, my intrest has existeded for several months, but unfortunitly don't have highspeed internet in wich to use ubuntu online and therefor haven't been able to use it, i aim to recieve highspeed internet withen the year, but my question is, is there anyway i can still help without the use in which i have specified?
<dborg_> Jak08: it's about 5am in europe ;) maybe you should better use email
<Jak08> ?
<Jak08> is that in refferance to the long email or it's content?
<Jak08> gerr, now you had me say email instead of message, :)
<detgar> Jak08: the clock is currently 05:30 in Europe (give or take an hour, depending on timezone), meaning that a lot of people are asleep, and you will have trouble initiating a conversation on this channel.
<Jak08> ok, I was going to just leave my dialup on and wait till morning here and see who had left a responce
<Jak08> as it is 10:30 where i am at
<detgar> ah, sounds like you should use the mailing list instead of the IRC channel. That way you don't have to stay connected to receive an answer to your questions.
<Jak08> ahh, true, and I have had subscription to the mailing list for some odd months now
<detgar> kk
<Jak08> but anyway sence you are here, do you by chance have an answer for me?
<detgar> Unfortunately not, I don't know anything at all about the art team
<Jak08> oh
<detgar> I joined the channel today out of curiosity
<Jak08> ahh
<detgar> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Documentation/GetInvolved
<detgar> try that link
<Jak08> you realize that this is only the second conversation I have started with someone in the art channel
<Jak08> yeah I looked at that yesterday
<detgar> ah
<Jak08> it changed a bit in the last few months
<Jak08> idk mabey i'll be able to help out a lot for the next release because it seems that this one is about done as far as the art teams efforts are concerned at least in the parts that a person can just hop right in and start working
<Jak08> but I would like to do a lot of the work outside of ubuntu seeing as how all my tools are for os x and windows
<Jak08> like photoshop and maya
<detgar> k
<Jak08> have you by chance had the opertunity to try one of the new macs?
<detgar> no
<Jak08> ahh, I love my imac too bad it doesn't have a 775 socet or I would upgrad to the 2.66 core 2 duo
<Jak08> i think the brand new Imacs have 775 sockets though
<Jak08> the one that came out 2 weeks ago
<detgar> What's a 775 socket?
<detgar> socket for the CPU?
<Jak08> and the 24" has a nice nividia graphics card which has me wondering if it has an actual card instead of integraded
<Jak08> it is a socket for intels mainstream desktop procesor, the one in my imac is the one they use for laptops
<Jak08> but still dual core 2.0 ghz isn't bad, and i can still upgrad to a 2.33 core 2 duo, but i don't see the point but i guess it is almost 50% faster than the one i got so I may reconcider
<Jak08> but It also disapoints me, I can't get ubuntu to install on my Imac without doing a clean instal, it doesn't recognize my empty partition, so I am also hoping the new version of ubuntu will
<Jak08> but the eject button on the apple keyboards works on ubunut so thats something good, that I can't quite say for vista beta 2, I hope that rc1 will be better, but I'm still waiting for my disc which should arive by the end of this week
<Jak08> sorry I said a lot there
<Jak08> have you gotten to use vista yet?
<detgar> I only use Ubuntu at the moment
<detgar> I'm going AFK, gonna make some breakfast, cya
<Jak08> ahh, I don't want to use vmware so I guess that is the problem I have, is I have to have all three Installed, and the only legal way for me to do that, was by getting an intel mac, but from the amount that I have used linux  like ubuntu and *gasp* mepis, vista is a little bit of a letdown but very much better than xp and I really like os x, but i would have to put linux and os x above windows even though i have used it most
<Jak08> kk, see ya
<effraie> !seen who
<effraie> does not work here..
<effraie> does somedy know where i can found who's wallpapper for blubuntu?
<kwwii_> the wiki, I would guess
<effraie> no, on the wiki, there are only thumbnails, i think
<kwwii_> hrm, not sure then
<PingunZ> effraie: mail him
<effraie> PingunZ: great idea
<PingunZ> effraie: Or add him to googlechat -> he is pretty active there
<effraie> what is googlechat?
<effraie> jabber?
<effraie> you know his ID?
<PingunZ> effraie: googlechat is just the interactive chat in your gmail inbox
<PingunZ> goto gmail.com
<PingunZ> and check the right box ;)
<effraie> i know it
<PingunZ> Ah well, you have to mail him first .. it automatically adds him
<effraie> it's a jabber implementation, so i prefer use jabber ;)
<PingunZ> mailforwho@googlemail.com
<effraie> thanx
<PingunZ> np ;)
<PingunZ> goto go ( lost is starting ;) )
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-09-19
<Jak08> hello
<kwwii_> hi
<Jak08> question, I am not able to use ubuntu right now, because well it doesn't work with my harddrive in my imac, it doesn't recognize the free space, but in what ways can I contribute?
<Jak08> I am hoping that the new version of ubuntu will have complete support for the new intel macs, I can use it on another computer, but it only has dialup, which I am not fond of
<kwwii_> Jak08: well, in a virtual desktop, it certainlyl works
<kwwii_> not sure how well on the actual machine
<Jak08> ok, but is there anyway I can contribute then? and is there a by chance a better sollution to a virtual desktop besides vmware?
<kwwii_> well, we need work everywhere
<kwwii_> pick what you can do best and do it
<kwwii_> well, on macbooks there is a program (paralells, or such)
<Jak08> can I have an example of such work? I'm sorry but I am rather new to OS graphics and am not sure what there is all to do
<Jak08> yeah, I should look into paralells
<Jak08> hmm not bad only 80 bucks
<kwwii_> well, it is all in the source code
<kwwii_> installing it is kinda important
<kwwii_> you can check the wiki
<Jak08> but can I have some example of work that can be done without the actual OS? for the meantime
<kwwii_> wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork
<kwwii_> we are currently in the process of making the artwork for 6.10
<kwwii_> the wiki might be the best place for you
<Jak08> k
<kwwii_> at the bottom of each page is a list of sub-pages
<kwwii_> that is important
<Jak08> do you know, about how much experiance wise do you lose by using a virtual desktop?
<kwwii_> none
<kwwii_> little
<kwwii_> depends on the computer
<kwwii_> on a macbook, little
<Jak08> also besides photoshop what are some other usful tools that you can name for me to get?
<kwwii_> well, a vector program is very important...
<kwwii_> on linux I would suggest inkscape
<Jak08> ok, what exactly is a vector program?
<kwwii_> it runs on win and mac too I think
<kwwii_> it makes vector pics, which can be scaled
<kwwii_> the important thing to know is SVG
<kwwii_> Scalable Vector Graphiccs
<kwwii_> check wikipedia or such if you don't know it
<Jak08> ok
<Jak08> and besides inkscape what other usful tools should i get?
<kwwii_> in addition to the pixmap programs like photoshop or GIMP those apps will be the most important
<kwwii_> I use imagemagick a lot
<kwwii_> a whole lot
<Jak08> what is imagemagick per say?
<kwwii_> it is best used in the bash shell (so the terminal)
<kwwii_> it is a program for graphics
<kwwii_> but it is best used in scripting
<kwwii_> anyway, as a normal user...inkscape on linux, Adobe Illustrator on a prop. system like win or mac
<Jak08> so imagemagick is like an alternative to photoshop and gimp?
<Jak08> ok, I have illustrator for mac
<kwwii_> hehe, no..it is just as powerfull, but in a different way...you can do things with scripts on pics with it very effeciently
<kwwii_> illustrator is good
<kwwii_> save things as svg
<kwwii_> do not use too many filters
<kwwii_> like negative multiply, etc.
<Jak08> so is it completely fesable to do the graphics in os x and then port them to linux?
<Jak08> ok
<kwwii_> yes, definitely
<kwwii_> I do quite a lot of work in osx
<kwwii_> I do have to earn a living :-)
<Jak08> haha, yeah
<kwwii_> although atm I do earn most of my money working for canonical doing graphics and it is 100% linux and inkscape
<kwwii_> for a good artist, the tool is not the problem
<kwwii_> funny to say, but good art can be done with any tool
<kwwii_> it is more a matter of intent and will
<Jak08> yeah
<Jak08> ok, well i will definitly get the tools you suggested, and do a bit of research and try my damndest to get ubuntu installed, but for now I have to go, hopefully I will get to speak with you again soon, with better news on my end
<kwwii_> cool :-) have fun!
<kwwii_> hope to see you here again
<Jak08> oh i'll be back, don't worry
<Jak08> hey a bit off topic but have you been able to use vista?
<kwwii_> I only have ppc at home, so I haven't checked it out at all, actually
<kwwii_> funny, but as a mac user, who does linux vista is some screenshot festival that I do not even get into
<Jak08> ahh, it is a lot better than xp but in a lot of ways it falls short
<Jak08> haha
<kwwii_> I think that linux can surpass all that
<Jak08> oh definitly especially with the rapid growth and developement it has seen recently
<kwwii_> it comes down to leadership
<kwwii_> in some aspects
<kwwii_> and kubuntu and ubuntu have it...a goal
<Jak08> yes
<Jak08> I have never used kubuntu how does it compare with normal ubuntu?
<kwwii_> I think it is even better oriented for the "normal Windows" user
<kwwii_> it is powerfull, yet simple to use
<Jak08> yeah, well anything else you say to me i'll just have to read in the logs couse i really need to go now
<kwwii_> hehe
<kwwii_> me too
<kwwii_> see you
<giga> any1 here?
<kwwii_> hi
<kwwii_> just me it seems
<giga> is this channel ever active? Does it serve a purpose?
<kwwii_> lol
<kwwii_> of course it does
<kwwii_> and yes, it is often actice
<kwwii_> active
<kwwii_> at certain times
<kwwii_> it is more a channel for direct contact
<giga> What do you do though?
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-09-20
<Jak08> hello
<Jak08> question that mabey someone can answer quick, but what is indesign do?
<Madpilot> Jak08, Adobe InDesign?
<Jak08> yes
<Madpilot> it's a DTP app, I think
<Jak08> which if you could, what is a DTP app?
<Madpilot> DTP = Desktop Publishing
<Madpilot> http://www.adobe.com/products/indesign/
<Jak08> ahh
<Madpilot> Scribus is an open-source app that's similar
<Jak08> is it worth anything or are the alternatives better?
<Madpilot> worth anything? None of the adobe apps are cheap, and they're generally well made.
<Jak08> I mean is it decent
<Madpilot> I've never actually used it
<Jak08> because I have it, never have used it though, came with my creative suite cs2
<Madpilot> Nice. Give it a shot, then.
<Jak08> and in comparison how does pages compare with scribus?
<Jak08> in iWork
<Jak08> My experiance with scribus is limited
<Jak08> and I know it is suggested for it's abiltity to save in open source formats
<Jak08> and price of course
<Madpilot> Pages is the Mac DTP app, right?
<Jak08> yes
<Madpilot> never used it, either. Sorry.
<Jak08> i'm downloading scribus now, but may take a while as i'm on dialup and slow dial up at that, probly take about 7 more hourse and it is 42.9% done
<Jak08> I'm just going to find an alternative way of downloading openoffice.org for my mac, as that is about 4 times bigger
<Jak08> i do like openoffice though
<Jak08> I only use that on my windows box, i actually got rid of word because I don't like it as well
<Madpilot> OpenOffice is on the OpenCD - you can also buy copies of OOo cheaply, I think
<Jak08> what is the OpenCD?
<Madpilot> http://www.theopencd.org/
<Madpilot> it's a collection of OpenSource/Free software for Windows users
<Madpilot> you can buy one for about $7, it looks like
<Jak08> hmm, i think i'll need scribus even if i do use indeisgn or Pages because they only save in their format
<Jak08> ahh nice, I already have a lot of open source software for windows, i have scribus, inscape, the gimp, open office
<Jak08> firefox, and thunderbird
<Jak08> I like dreamwever so I dout i'll switch from it, oh i have blender and gaim that I use too, and 7-zip
<Jak08> have you had a chance to use maya?
<Madpilot> nope. That's another 3d modelling app, right?
<Jak08> I got a cheap student version of that, it's a lot nicer than blender, no offence to blender
<Jak08> yeah, pixar, disney, nintendo use it for example, it and 3d studio max are the industry standards for 3d design in games and movies
<Jak08> hey would you know, is the new version of ubuntu going to be completly compatible with the hardware of the new  intel macs? because I can't get it to recognise the free space on my hardrive to install, in fact it reads the harddrive pretty funny in general, and I know it isn't the harddrive just acting funny, because vista beta 2 reads the drive fine
<Jak08> I have ubuntu on my windows xp machine but, i don't use that hardly at all, now that I have my new mac, but as I said I can't get ubuntu installed
<Jak08> altho I do have to admit it does a lot better of reading the new macs than any other distro i used for comparison
<Madpilot> no idea - you might want to ask on #ubuntu+1, that's the testing channel for the next version
<Jak08> ok, thank you
<Jak08> yay 2 minutes left on my inkscape download
<Madpilot> the NZ loco team has a nice logo - cool re-use of Ubuntu logo elements
<Burgundavia> Madpilot: link?
<Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NZTeam
<Burgundavia> interesting
<Madpilot> although it looks more like three islands instead of two, but close enough
<Doggie> hey... does anyone know how can i change right click menu..... I want to put something...... a launcher to terminal
<nixternal> kwwii_: less busy in here
<kwwii_> hehe
<kwwii_> no doubt
<nixternal> those images, on kde svn are .png files
<nixternal> all layers merged
<nixternal> do those help at all?
<kwwii_> not too much
<nixternal> kinda figured that
<nixternal> hehe
<kwwii_> if we have to make new ones, it will be good to know which pieces the current code is made out of
<nixternal> i can list those for you if you would like
<kwwii_> well, I think I know
<nixternal> or, i can up the ones used so you can look at them
<nixternal> ok
<kwwii_> it has the left part with the kde, a middle part to tile, and a right part, or?
<nixternal> top-left.png, top-middle.png, top-right.png, bottom-left.png, bottom-middle.png, and bottom-right.png are the files used
<kwwii_> yeah, and for the about pages we need a middle tile in addition
<kwwii_> (irrc)
<kwwii_> the *-middle pics are tiled irrc
<nixternal> actuqally....top-right-konqueror.png
<nixternal> you are correct about the middle
<kwwii_> no idea why I type irrc instead of iirc though :p
<kwwii_> hrm
<nixternal> hehe
<kwwii_> I am in the middle of a bigger update to k-d-s...let me get that finished and make sure nobody flips out and then we could take care of it, ok?
<nixternal> no problem
<nixternal> i will be here most of the day ;)
<kwwii_> :-)
<Who_> Do people find the wiki to be really slow at the moment?
<kwwii_> Who_: I find it to be slow quite a lot
<Who_> kwwii_: must be all the artwork :P
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-09-21
<Viper550> anyone in there?
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-artwork.log
<PseudoPlacebo> Anyone here play drums, with double-bass pedal?
<kwwii> Seveas: ping?
<kwwii> Seveas: as per the meeting today, we need to include a 640x480 theme variant
<kwwii> Seveas: could you help with that?
<kwwii> I have pics ready
<Seveas> kwwii, definitely
<Seveas> but I just came back from eurooscon, so ping me tomorrow
<kwwii> Seveas: ok, but it might not make it into the beta tomorrow
<kwwii> unless it is early tomorrow ;-
<kwwii> )
<Seveas> early tomorrow is not possible
<kwwii> I could give you the pics now, if you'd like, and you could get to it when possible
<Seveas> I'm going to bed in a few minutes and won't be available until early in the afternoon
<kwwii> hehe, cool
<Seveas> how about the things msikma did for kubuntu?
<kwwii> then we can talk tomorrow afternoon
<kwwii> no idea
<kwwii> there seems to be a lot of discussion
<kwwii> but the usplash is not the point
<Seveas> ok
<kwwii> so I think it is pretty good
<kwwii> but we need to include a 640x480 theme
<Seveas> mail me the pics and poke me tomorrow so I don't forget
<kwwii> will doo
<kwwii> http://bootsplash.org/usplash.tar.gz
<kwwii> mail coming as wel
<kwwii> well
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-09-22
<troy_s> howdy msikma
<msikma> Hi there
<msikma> How's things?
<troy_s> rather all over.
<msikma> I was gonna contact you this weekend for some art.
<troy_s> regarding?
<msikma> Me discussing what we've got so far with you and what we could still improve.
<troy_s> there is much to improve, but the question remains what we have
<troy_s> it should see some resolution as of tomorrow.
<troy_s> how has work been treating you of late msikma?
<msikma> Eh
<msikma> You make a site based on their terrible design, but follow their briefing to the letter, and then they're still not satisfied.
<troy_s> wb msikma
<cbx33> any one seen fschoep around?
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-09-23
<alejandro> hi
<alejandro> someone know how to change the default artwork in ubuntu? When I add an user, it uses the default Human, background, etc.
<alejandro> I tried looking in /usr/share/gconf, /etc/gconf/, etc
<alejandro> And it doesnt uses the /etc/skel. :-)
<alejandro> Ah ok, now it works.
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-09-24
<fschoep> troy_s: ping
<fschoep> troy_s: I know you're there ;)
<fschoep> Oh well, it's 01:22 here so I'm going to catch some sleep. Goodnight everyone, sweet dreams.
<Viper550> With some of the beta usplash themes this cycle, you've had a pretty good sense of humor
<Viper550> But this, tops it all: http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/original.php?release=740&slide=2
<unfknblvbl> wheres the icons for Edgy ?
<nysosym> hi all :)
<nysosym> anyone read the new mail from Frank Schoep?
<fschoep> troy_s: you're probably not there, but just checking
<kwwii> hi fschoep
<fschoep> Hey Kenneth, how're you doing?
<kwwii> good, and you?
<kwwii> I am in Dublin atm
<fschoep> Ah, visiting Akademy
<fschoep> ?
<kwwii> yepp, today is my first day, kinda nice to see old faces
<fschoep> Yeah :)
<fschoep> If Aaron's there send him my personal greetings ;)
<kwwii> I'll do that
<fschoep> And Riddell too if he's there
<kwwii> naturally :-)
<fschoep> And all you other crazy KDE developers ;)
<fschoep> Having a good time there>
<kwwii> still have a lot to do for edgy, so I will spend a lot of time here working
<fschoep> I see, what things are still on your list?
<kwwii> well, tweaking everything that is already in (finishing the usplash) and then doing some kde app start page, help center, etc.
<fschoep> OK, I'd better not keep you off your work then :)
<fschoep> BTW have you met Bono there?
<fschoep> :)
<kwwii> hehe
<kwwii> not yet
<kwwii> thought I would call him later and pop by his place :p
<fschoep> Great!
<fschoep> Are you going to the UDS in California in November?
<fschoep> Or "Mountain View" as it seems to be called?
<kwwii> fschoep: not sure yet, haven't been invited...you?
<fschoep> kwwii: me neither
<kwwii> the same thing happened after my last contract and going to paris
<fschoep> We'll see though
<kwwii> yepp
<fschoep> BTW my band's CD is coming along nicely - probably have some stuff to share next week(s)
<kwwii> cool! I would love to listen to the final product :-)
<fschoep> Maybe I can get heno to include it in the sample content ;)
<fschoep> j/k
<fschoep> I'm gonna eat lunch, see you later today on IRC
<kwwii> ok, see you
<kwwii> enjoy your lunch
<nysosym> hi ryanakca :)
<kamiccolo> hi
<SS2> hello kamiccolo ;)
<kamiccolo> hm, a very quiet channel ;)
<SS2> just come to the point what you want to say
<kamiccolo> yes. well, I have made a wallpaper and I want to contribute it
<kamiccolo> I have no idea if it will be relevant but it's worth to try ;)
<troy_s> greetings all.
<kamiccolo> hi troy_s
<kamiccolo> @all: does anybody know, where I can upload my wallpaper or if it's still possible when it should be considered for edgy?
<troy_s> kamiccolo if you wish to try and get something done for inclusion in edgy
<troy_s> you will need to do a little backtracking and research
<troy_s> start at the wiki in the topic
<troy_s> the edgy artwork is all subject ultimately to sabdfl's approval.  it is a tricky tightrope.
<kamiccolo> oh, the big mark himself. seems to be really important
<troy_s> kubuntu, edubuntu, and xubuntu have autonomy within reason
<troy_s> ubuntu is a different creature
<troy_s> entirely
<troy_s> but if you jump in now and follow the list
<troy_s> you will at least be able to submit things on spec
<kamiccolo> well, I should lern some wiki syntax ;)
<kamiccolo> perhaps I also should refresh my english
<troy_s> no.  diversity is a wonderful thing.
<kamiccolo> in vino veritas ;) perfect moment for a bit of south african wine
<kamiccolo> should I create a subsite under ubuntuartwork in the wiki?
<kamiccolo> forget it. it's described in ubuntuart ;)
<fschoep> troy_s: ping
<kamiccolo> hi fschoep and Ubugtu
<fschoep> Hi kamiccolo
<fschoep> kamiccolo: How are you doing?
<kamiccolo> fschoep: I'm very well. I'm just contributing a wallpaper ;)
<kamiccolo> and you?
* fschoep on the phone\
<fschoep> brb :)
<kamiccolo> have fun ;)
<kamiccolo> hi dborg
<fschoep> I'm back
<fschoep> So, creating a wallpaper eh
<kamiccolo> good. because I have a question
<fschoep> Have you got a link for me
<fschoep> OK, ask
<kamiccolo> wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/OpenSource
<kamiccolo> now the wiki page is created. how does it go on?
<fschoep> "How does it go on?"
<fschoep> I'm not sure if I get that question
<kamiccolo> my englisch is not so good ;) I'm germn and out of practice
<kamiccolo> german
<fschoep> I see :)
<fschoep> Can you phrase your question in German?
<kamiccolo> of course
<fschoep> Ich spreche Deutsch
<kamiccolo> was soll ich jetzt machen?
<kamiccolo> sehr gut
<fschoep> Ah so
<fschoep> Well, I can understand your question now but I really don't speak German :)
<fschoep> Next thing would be uploading the file itself
<fschoep> You can click the link "upload attachment..."
<kamiccolo> it's already uploaded
<fschoep> I see, sorry
<fschoep> My browser was acting funny there
<kamiccolo> my browser too, 10 minutes ago ;)
<fschoep> Do you have a PNG preview by chance?
<kamiccolo> I can create one if you want
<fschoep> Please do :)
<fschoep> I'm on Mac OS X and I don't have Inkscape readily available
<kamiccolo> oh. well, the preview is in work
<fschoep> Great
<kamiccolo> it's done. my knowledge about the wiki syntax is very bad. how can I put it on the page?
<fschoep> Just use another attachment:preview.png statement there
<kamiccolo> not more?
<fschoep> PNGs are automatically turned into images
<kamiccolo> I begin to like the wiki ;)
<kamiccolo> is there something for a new line?
<fschoep> The Wiki software, MoinMoin is very nice.
<fschoep> Yes
<fschoep> Use [[BR] ] 
<fschoep> Which is like a HTML tag, kind of
<kamiccolo> great, thanks
<kamiccolo> sure if it is automatically turned into images? in the preview there's only a link
<fschoep> It should work yes, did you name the attachment [imagename] .png?
<fschoep> I've been using it that way since the beginning of the universe
<kamiccolo> I wrote [attachment:open_small.png] 
<fschoep> That should work, have you already uploaded the file as well?
<kamiccolo> yes
<fschoep> Does the link point to the image?
<fschoep> So if you click the link you see the image?
<kamiccolo> yes, the image appears
<fschoep> Well then... I'm out of ideas :)
<fschoep> Just leave the link and say: click here for the preview
<kamiccolo> ok
<kamiccolo> hi msikma
<fschoep> kamiccolo: I see the preview, am I correct in saying it's composed mainly of squares?
<kamiccolo> fschoep: what should I do now? who will be responsible for this part of artwork
<kamiccolo> fschoep: yes. simple but pretty
<fschoep> kamiccolo: that'd be me
<kamiccolo> ah, very good
<kamiccolo> the right man on line ;)
<fschoep> Yes indeed
<fschoep> I'm afraid it doesn't readily fit into the process we've been following for the Edgy release.
<fschoep> There are some strict guidelines in place for submitting artwork and ideas
<fschoep> I'm working on writing some of those for the next step as we talk
<kamiccolo> yes, the edgy style is different. but I think, this wallpaper will be good for later versions, perhaps
<fschoep> I see
<fschoep> Then it would probably be a good idea to join the artwork team
<fschoep> Do you know the ubuntu-art mailing list?
<fschoep> You'll probably want to subscribe there
<kamiccolo> well, I'm still inexperienced ans I'm working as a mod and as supporter at ubuntuusers.de (and as newsposter)
<fschoep> Other things you can try are submitting your wallpaper to a site like gnome-look.org
<kamiccolo> not yet
<kamiccolo> good idea
<fschoep> If you want to expand your knowledge and graphics experience
<fschoep> You can probably follow a nice Inkscape guide like this one:
<fschoep> http://tavmjong.free.fr/INKSCAPE/MANUAL/html/index.php
<kamiccolo> very good. I like good manuals
<kamiccolo> perhaps I can do some more artwork for the future
<fschoep> Indeed
<fschoep> I hope you'll join our team soon enough :)
<kamiccolo> I also made some other wallpapers, especially for ubuntuusers.de. I always searched for a opportunity to post them
<fschoep> I see, well I think gnome-look.org will welcome them with open arms
<kamiccolo> where should I join? in launchpad?
<fschoep> Sure, Launchpad and the mailing list
<fschoep> You already know your way around IRC so that's good
<kamiccolo> thanks to SS2, he told me about this channel ;)
<fschoep> Nice!
<kamiccolo> well, I will see, what I can create. I think it's to late for edgy
<fschoep> OK, you can also stick around and work on Edgy =1
<fschoep> Edgy +1
<kamiccolo> for this it's enough time. and now I know that my wallpaper is perhaps suitable for edgy +1. well, this slogan is a bit propaganda for open source. but I think that's not the worst ;)
<troy_s> fscheop
<troy_s> ping
<troy_s> fschoep rather
<fschoep> troy_s: I'm here
<kamiccolo> so, I will get offline, too. my night ends at 4am ;)
<fschoep> OK :)
<kamiccolo> have a good night. I think we'll meet again soon
<kamiccolo> byebye
<troy_s> fschoep
<fschoep> troy_s: yes
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-09-17
<lapo> hi
<effie_jayx> hey all
<effie_jayx> does anyone have an ubuntu glossy logo on svg  (circle and title)
<effie_jayx> we need this for a loCo team logo
<kwwii> how about the one from the usplash or GDM?
<kwwii> effie_jayx:  http://sinecera.de/gdmFrom_2fc.svg or http://sinecera.de/usplash_2fc.svg
<effie_jayx> kwwii,  thanks :D
<lapo> if somebody want to test new tangerine icon theme: http://xoomer.alice.it/bat/tmp/Tangerine.tar.bz2
<nothlit> lapo: works fine, everything in the menu falls back to g-i-t rather than tango?
<lapo> it should
<lapo> nothlit: I canged symbolic link, is it any better then the g-i-t one?
<lapo> changed even
<nothlit> i thought you were going for orange-fied tango?
<lapo> g-i-t is in a better state then t-i-t atm
<nothlit> lapo: is what any better? the tango categories are more interesting to me
<lapo> nothlit: basically g-i-t has better metaphores and is more complete and coherent then t-i-t
<nothlit> oh you mean the icon for symbolic link lol
<lapo> t-i-t has better stuff here and there but g-i-t is mostly superior
<lapo> yeah :-)
<nothlit> i thought you meant actual ones lol
<nothlit> lapo: it looks like a left handed cursor to me
<nothlit> but its scaling over the entire icon atm
<xivulon> Hi all did anyone have a look at Wubi artwork by any chance? Any progress there?
<lapo> nothlit: you're on feisty right?
<nothlit> lapo: archlinux
<lapo> nothlit: you need gnome >=2.19 to have working emblems
<nothlit> ahh
<lassegul> lapo: You there?
<lapo> lassegul: yep
<lassegul> I promised you to test out tangerine a while back.
<lassegul> lapo: I didnt do it very much, but I did come over some things
<lapo> lassegul: no problems, eventually I have a new one tho :-)
<lassegul> lapo: ive got 4 things. 1. Scripts and programs are  mostly blue. Desktop when emblem on otherf folders looks different than the original. xscreensaver kinda stands out as very blue, and the link (hardlinks etc) emblem is not tango
<lassegul> lapo: and search icon just inherits gnome (upstream default) theme (at least on my system)
<lassegul> lapo: i dont know if this was what you wanted, tell me if theres something else you wanted me to do.
<lapo> lassegul: the main difference is that it depends on gnome icon theme only, dropping tango inheritance
<lapo> that's wanted since gnome icon theme, is actually better in various aspects then tango icon theme
<lassegul> lapo: shouldnt it inherit from human?
<lapo> lassegul: human inherits tangerine
<lassegul> lapo: oO oh...
<lassegul> lapo: so tangerine is more complete than human?
<lapo> lassegul: gnome icon theme is, tangerine is just some icons on top of it
<lassegul> lapo: ok. Just tell me if you want some icons traced and recoloured. or whatever help you need.
<lapo> I'd need some testing for latest version eventually
<lapo> http://xoomer.alice.it/bat/tmp/Tangerine.tar.bz2
<lassegul> lapo: tell me agian, what am I looking for?
<lapo> lassegul: I changed all the monitors to reflect the new bg
<lapo> lassegul: and symlink icon mostly, the rest is more fixing icon files, licensing and stuff
<lassegul> where is the high res of the new bg?
<lapo> lassegul: no where, I got a screenshot from kwwii
<lapo> uhm s/nowhere/I don't know/
<lassegul> lapo: :-) when was that decided? Who made it? all im looking at now is the computer monitor .svg
<lapo> lassegul: no idea really :-)
<lapo> I'm on icons alone
<lapo> s/alone/only/
<lapo> uhm...s/icons/tangerine-icon-theme/
<lapo> you got it, no? :-)
<lassegul> i get it :)
* lassegul speculates... Could this be troy_s' final solar thingy?
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-09-18
<laymansterms_> Is there any active discussion here that I'm just not seeing due to configuration problems? (sorry, I'm new to IRC and freenode)
<peanutb> nope
<peanutb> laymansterms_, i dont see any discussion
<peanutb> so lets discuss why there isint any discussion
<laymansterms_> thanks peanutb, you've at least given me the satisfaction of knowing that I set this up correctly
<laymansterms_> do you have any clue if #ubuntu-artwork is normally this dormant?
<peanutb> it pretty much is
<peanutb> i have been on here for a few days
<laymansterms_> I see
<peanutb> its mostly entering and leaving messages
<peanutb> (I keep irssi logged on on my server all the time
<peanutb> )
<laymansterms_> curious... I was thinking that this communication form would be more heavily used since the ubuntu-art email archives don't show that much activity
<laymansterms_> I'm not much of an artist but I was hoping to get some insight about the GutsyIdeas in the ubuntu wiki
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-artwork.log
<troy_s> lassegul: It is probably quite final as I won't be chasing up on a poorly executed design direction any further in all likelihood.
<lapo> hi
<derek_> Hello people
<Skiessi> hi
<derek_> What's up Skiessi ?
<Skiessi> nothing new..
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-09-19
<nysosym> hi there
<nysosym> i love the animal style wallpapers! :D
<lapo> hi
<kwwii_> hi lapo
<lapo> moin kwwii_
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-09-20
<lapo> hi
<LDS_Trooper> hey guys..
<LDS_Trooper> anyone know how I can change the color of the font on the desktop? Something other than white?
<nothlit> easiest way is to use a different theme
<LDS_Trooper> ok
<LDS_Trooper> any other ways?
<nothlit> write a .gtkrc-2.0, or use the gtk colour chooser
<nothlit> i don't know if thats packaged for ubuntu
<LDS_Trooper> hmm ok thanks
<LDS_Trooper> One more question...
<LDS_Trooper> With the next Ubuntu release coming fast, how can a friend and I get involved in the release after that?
<nothlit> in the artwork?
<nothlit> or in general
<LDS_Trooper> Artwork primarily
<nothlit> artwork, stick around here, join the mailing list and launchpad team
<nothlit> i'm getting you the mailing list link
<LDS_Trooper> thanks!
<nothlit> launchpad.net search for ubuntu and artwork
<nothlit> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
<LDS_Trooper> Great thanks!
<LDS_Trooper> How soon would discussions start do you think?
<nothlit> the best thing to do is produce ubuntu themes, sound, wallpapers, etc
<nothlit> and submit it as part of the community
<LDS_Trooper> through the launchpad?
<nothlit> LDS_Trooper: the actual selection of artwork for the main release isn't actually done by the community
<LDS_Trooper> ok
<nothlit> so we don't have much say in that, but artwork is being submitted and added as part of a community package
<LDS_Trooper> ok .. I will pass this to my friend as well and get involved
<LDS_Trooper> Thanks so much!
<nothlit> the artwork freeze actually happens today/tomorrow, so i suppose discussions could start now
<LDS_Trooper> nothlit, I'd like to intro Droz. He's the 'friend' I mentioned earlier
<Droz> hello
<LDS_Trooper> well I will definately be back. But I do need to run
<Droz> I have a question where can i download gnome-color-chooser
<nothlit> gnome-look or files should have it
<Droz> i was looking on gnome-look and i get nothing there
<Droz> guess i will keep hunting
<nothlit> gimme a sec
<nothlit> also some themes like clearlooks will let you define colours as well if you use gnome2.18 i think
<Droz> true
<nothlit> http://tinyurl.com/yoxlks
<nothlit> i tinyurled it because the url contains a swear word
<Droz> yah i have been there but there is no where to download the files. The link goes to a blank page in gnome-look
<Droz> ohh well i guess i will live with it or work on the .gtkrc-2.0 file untill i can find the files
<Droz> Thank you for the help.
<nothlit> !info gcolor
<ubotu> Package gcolor does not exist in feisty, feisty-seveas
<nothlit> what the
<nothlit> nm
<nysosym> hi there
<axxium> Hi, is the new "blue" human theme in Gutsy updates temporary? I hope so.
<nothlit> thats awfully rude
<Skiessi> blue human theme?
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-09-21
<Droz> How do you get the terminal to appear transparent?
<lapo> hi
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-09-22
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-artwork.log
<chymera> anyone?
<nothlit> hihi
<Skiessi> hi
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-09-23
<terlmann> Nobody awake here but the bots :-)
<AngelBolt> hello?
<soc_> hi
<soc_> someone here?
<soc_> anyone?
<soc_> mh?
<lasse> Hi everybody.
<lasse> Is there usually this much fuss about the default wallpaper?
<troy_s> lasse: yes.
<troy_s> lasse: In general.
<troy_s> lasse: It is symptomatic of an absolutely garbage approach to art and design.
<`23meg> lasse, there's been more fuss before
<troy_s> Only over the photography of the naked people
<troy_s> which was well overblown
<troy_s> and quite frankly, ridiculous
<troy_s> as it was possibly some of the more aesthetically interesting design that ubuntu has ever had.
<`23meg> true
<troy_s> Again, all of this rubbish would be alleviated if a simple design pattern were set into motion.
<troy_s> People would settle back on the bikeshedding as you can tackle the issues in direct relation to the audience and goal.
<troy_s> Which steers it away from the subjective realm of uselessness.
<lasse> the reception hasnt been just good. I see gnome-looks has rated it under 30%. thats not very good.
<troy_s> lassegs: Well gnome-look isn't a decent benchmark.  But 30% is probably noteworthy.
<lassegs> troy_s: but my impression (i might be wrong, since im new in the game) is that all signs point towards the same: people generally dislike it.
<troy_s> lassegs: I think you could argue that people generally dislike most of ubuntu's design direction.  it is in a whole new era of cra.
<lassegs> cra?
<troy_s> p
<troy_s> crap
<lassegs> i see
<lassegs> but the solution to this must be a bigger and stronger art community. Even though art isnt software, and ie the wallpaper is probably gonna  be made by one person, it helps to have a lot of people who is backing the decision, created by their own involvement in the project. I read thru a thread on ubuntuforums, and some feel that user feedback isnt considered at all, and I find it hard to disagree, whats the argument against that? Obvio
<troy_s> lassegs: The solution lies in 1) Knowledge / Education 2) Planning 3) Execution.
<lassegs> i think i understand where you are heading.
<troy_s> lassegs: The quick route is to simply hire someone with a respected and formal set of credits.
<troy_s> lassegs:  And give them the freedom to move.  We can't be trapped in this uber-conservatism that drives most of FOSS.
<troy_s> lassegs: It will simply fail to capture the emotional attachment of the public.
<lassegs> troy_s: that would be a boring way of doing things :) If the final product would be the same, i would think that the community way to go is better. obviously thats harder.
<troy_s> lassegs: The final product would _not_ be the same.
<troy_s> lassegs: I have had the pleasure of meeting a good number of professional high level designers, and they are amazingly talented folks.  They hire the right people and the products they churn out are incredible.
<lassegs> troy_s: same quality. I believe it can be.
<troy_s> lassegs: I think the community at some point can certainly get there.
<troy_s> lassegs: There has been a good display of talent and ability.
<lassegs> troy_s: if you get many enough to participate, one in a 500 will be damian villa, a banker from spain, which you would never be able to hire because without the broad community you would never had found him
<troy_s> lassegs: The only true solution is to _demonstrate_ it by figuring out workflows and tactics using whatever means the community can harness.
<troy_s> lassegs: To be fair, up to this point, there hasn't been a demonstration of anything credible.
<lassegs> troy_s: i agree. but you agree with the theory?
<troy_s> lassegs: By far -- the best art and design work done in Free Software thus far is Diana's work.  The rest is simply eclipsed.
<lassegs> troy_s: diana is the person behind fedora art  right?
<troy_s> lassegs: Yes.  Again -- having the ability is one portion of the puzzle.  The other is execution.
<lassegs> troy_s: but look at any deviantart contest. Look at some of these contribs, if you could get the same amount of people (amateurs mostly), you would end up with a 5% stunning unique work...
<troy_s> 5%?
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> oh you mean of a given number of contributors.
<lassegs> yeah.
<lassegs> sorry
<troy_s> so of 100, 5 -- probably correct.
<troy_s> again though, that is strictly speaking ability.
<lassegs> what the excact number is isnt important
<troy_s> the other portion is harnessing it in a 'smart' direction
<troy_s> which requires some sort of formal approach
<troy_s> again -- it takes us all back to the simple keystones of solid design -- audience and goal.
<lassegs> yeah. you gotta have some sort of arrangement where it can ultimatly decided on the top, but with user input.
<troy_s> 'form and function' is often heralded as an end all -- which is just symptomatic of a general lack of understanding and knowledge.
<troy_s> form and function is _always_ tied to audience.
<troy_s> for example, if you boiled a car down to 'function'
<troy_s> you would end up with something that might be 'space' 'speed' etc.
<lassegs> youve been stressing this to me for some time now. i agree.
<troy_s> and if you hit an 'optimal' design, it most certainly wouldn't sell -- as the 'aesthetic' function is left behind.
<lassegs> i lost you.
<lassegs> :S
<troy_s> lassegs: and _that_ supercedes 'public voting'.
<troy_s> well the 'fastest' design for a car will probably not meet the aesthetic needs of a consumer
<troy_s> hence you make trade-offs.
<lassegs> yeah, i understand, but what is the main goal here? to make the fastest car or please the customers? A wallpaper that #ubuntu-art thinks looks good, or something the public, reviewers, grandmothers :) etc likes?
<troy_s> lassegs: Very good question.
<troy_s> lassegs: My gut tells me that free software is healthier with more users -- and that would dictated designing around a user who _isn't_ using free software.  That means attracting that user base and attaching them emotionally.
<troy_s> lassegs: Out for a while.
<lassegs> troy_s: interesting discussion. lets pick it up sometime. and I would also propose talking a little about maybe making a better framework for usercreated artwork.
<lassegs> s/usercreated artwork/user participation/
<soc_> hi
<soc_> someone online?
<lassegs> hi
<soc_> ah ok
<soc_> about the wallpaper ...
<lassegs> :)
<soc_> i don't know how much people discussed that already ...
<soc_> is there already a decision what will ship in gutsy?
<soc_> it seems many people like those impressive animal wallpapers, including me ...
<lassegs> yeah. look here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Gutsy/DefaultWallpaperCriteria
<lassegs> oh if the animals will be included as well?
<lassegs> i dunno, kwwii said something about that on the mailing list
<soc_> yes
<lassegs> kwwii, didnt you?
<kwwii> hi guys
<lassegs> hi
<soc_> because it be really cool, to have it as a default
<kwwii> just got back from a weekend away
<kwwii> reading up on the emails
<soc_> because the first impression counts ...
<kwwii> one thing that everyone needs to know now is that the animal backgrounds are only 1280x800
<kwwii> I talked to the person that made them
<soc_> really?
<kwwii> so those are out, simple as that
<kwwii> I love the elephant bg myself
<lassegs> he has already made higher resolution hasnt he?
<soc_> then i have to say that they look impressive on my 1680*1050 ...
<soc_> i thought that too
<lassegs> kwwii: hold on one sec.
<kwwii> lassegs: nope, I will forward his mail
<soc_> they _are_ 1680*1050
<kwwii> to the list
<soc_> if they were resized i don't know, but they look really good here
<kwwii> lol, he sent me a mail as well on the weekend
<kwwii> I have a lot of mail to catch up on
<kwwii> anyway...I think that the elephant bg is awesome but looks quite dirty to use as default
<soc_> kwwii: he has "relicensed" them as "do whatever you want"
<kwwii> look at the comments on the wiki
<nothlit> troy_s: http://koke.amedias.org/articles/2007/08/22/amazing-new-image-resizing-technology/
<nothlit> theres a few open source implementations too :D including a gimp plugin
<nothlit> http://koke.amedias.org/articles/2007/09/19/amazing-open-source-image-resizing-technology/ http://www.flickr.com/groups/452426@N25/
<kwwii> krita has amazing stuff for resizing, if you can figure out how to use it
<lassegs> kwwii isnt the decision made final?
<kwwii> we spent a long time discussing this stuff and now, after the fact people complain
<nothlit> kwwii: seam carving?
<kwwii> I do agree that the current version is too dark and too pixelated
<lassegs> kwwii: thank god
<kwwii> I'll fix that tomorrow
<soc_> what about shipping the first three of them: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=3413059&postcount=144
<kwwii> I was trying to just use a crop of the whole pic to see how it would work
<kwwii> in any case, I will definitely include the elephant wallpaper in the default package
<`23meg> kwwii, I hope you don't mind if I post the few lines above in the forums?
<kwwii> so it will be the only other one installed by default
<lassegs> kwwii: this is very good news, i think0 the community will be pleased!
<soc_> kwwii: the real question is, what will be default?
<soc_> something where reviewers will say: "nothing happened here"
<kwwii> lassegs: a different version of the current wallpaper (the too dark pixelated version9
<soc_> or something "wow, that's impressive. good idea!"
<lassegs> kwwii: yes i understand
<lassegs> kwwii: that is what everyone is pointing out.
<kwwii> one more good thing to note is that as of the next version (horny heron or whatever) we will take a different design approach
<kwwii> and we will change from the light brown on dark brown pics
<soc_> ^hardy :-)
<lassegs> kwwii: shazam! thank you, kwwii i love you.
<lassegs> or whoever made those decisions
<kwwii> ;-)
<kwwii> that would be me
<kwwii> it looks like we will be changing the design more radically every LTS release
<kwwii> and in between sticking to the same design lines
<nothlit> interesting
<soc_> kwwii: do you already have decided, what will be the default? i think that's the more important question ...
<kwwii> that allows us to radically change things while still allowing for an evolution of the design
<lassegs> soc_: a revised version of the dark with brown lines
<lassegs> soc_: thats right isnt it?
<kwwii> soc_: an improved version of the pic now included
<soc_> ah ... i hoped, something which would be impressive on the first impression ...
<kwwii> in some ways I saw this coming...you have to admit that it did get people more interested in the artwork
<lassegs> haha.
<soc_> not something a user will see in the background dialog, AFTER he has downloaded his own ...
<kwwii> all this talk of dawn of ubuntu being the amazing default wallpaper...it was never default
<kwwii> if you look at the wiki page you will see what our goals were
<kwwii> I think that we did accomplish that, for what it is worth
<soc_> kwwii: ok, maybe it would be even better to ship without the animlas then
<kwwii> the next release will be different, I promise
<nothlit> i think most people switched to it right away though lol
<soc_> it would save diskspace
<lassegs> but kwwii have you talked anything about user participation in the artwork department, how you will manage that? copy pasting from discussion with troy 5 min before you logged on:
<kwwii> soc_: I think that the elephant wallpaper is a great replacement for the "smooth chocolate" pic we were installing before
<soc_> and better do a package with 3 or 4 animal wallpapers people can fetch from the repo
<nothlit> lol, i think there needs to be an artwork faq, so things don't keep getting repeated in here
<soc_> kwwii: yes, i think that too, but imo the first impression counts ...
<kwwii> I do not think that we will ever have a situation in which the people on the forum get to decide which wallpaper to decide is default unless they can prove themselves first in the eyes of those above me
<soc_> so what would speak against packaging 3 or 4 of the animals wallpapers?
<kwwii> soc_: I will put everything else in the community wallpaper package
<soc_> so people can just download them?
<nothlit> apt-get them
<kwwii> it will go in universe
<soc_> which ones?
<kwwii> I have now received pics from everyone, so I will submit that package tomorrow
<kwwii> most of the pics from the wiki page
<soc_> ah i don't see a picture ...
<kwwii> ?
<kwwii> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/GutsyIdeas
<soc_> would be nice to include https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/GutsyIdeas?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=ubuntu-elephant.jpg
<soc_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/GutsyIdeas?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=ubuntu-giraffe.jpg
<soc_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/GutsyIdeas?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=ubuntu-lion_2.jpg
<soc_> sorry, i meant i don't saw a package yet ...
<kwwii> I am afraid of including too many in the default install due to the CD image size
<soc_> yes
<kwwii> so I will put only one in (probably elephant
<kwwii> )
<kwwii> although the author would rather see lion, I think
<soc_> i meant, include those 3 in universe, so people can donwload them
<lassegs> the elephant is obviously the strongest one of them.
<kwwii> soc_: I will definitely include the others in the community wallpaper package
<lassegs> the texture is amazing
<kwwii> I was waiting for nothlit and a couple of others to submit their final works before I make the package
<kwwii> s/make/submit
<soc_> ahh cool
<nothlit> kwwii: did you get my email?
<kwwii> now I have all the pics so the package will come soon
<kwwii> nothlit: yes
<nothlit> ahh kk great :)
<soc_> nice ...
<kwwii> ;-)
<nothlit> sorry for the delay
<soc_> when will it be available over the repo ...
<kwwii> no worries
<soc_> considering that nothing has to be compiled?
<kwwii> it will be in universe within a day or so
<soc_> ok ...
<kwwii> I just have to get it included in the build which takes as long as it takes to get a core dev to review it
<soc_> ah ok
<kwwii> I'll post debs on my website as soon as I have them built
<soc_> so do you have already a specific decision which ones will be chosen?
<soc_> where's your website?
<lassegs> kwwii: i wasnt taking about making polls on ubuntuforums, but get a way to let the avarage art interested user feel that theres an easy way to post a suggustion, meaning or something like that, and be heard to some extent.
<soc_> :-)
<kwwii> the biggest problem in this case is that I tend to take the weekend off
<kwwii> lassegs: the best way to be heard is to post on the wiki and the mailing list
<soc_> i would host them, too, if traffic is a concern ...
<kwwii> soc_: no worries about traffic (sinecera.de and bootsplash.org is my website)
<soc_> :-) ok
<soc_> so we only have one giraffe and one elephant wallpaper
<nothlit> lassegs: average art interested user?
<kwwii> and one lion
<soc_> but concerning lion we have to choose one
<kwwii> yeah, we have to pick which lion
<soc_> i would suggest that: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/GutsyIdeas?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=ubuntu-lion_2.jpg
<kwwii> I am pretty tempted to leave it up to the author in this case
<soc_> it's not as dark as this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/GutsyIdeas?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=ubuntu-lion.jpg
<nothlit> lassegs: like ubuntu users who happen to like art and want to provide input? or those that participate in the art forum and mailing list, etc
<soc_> and not as bright as this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/GutsyIdeas?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=ubuntu-lion-claar.jpg
<lassegs> kwwii: _I_ know that, but the reaction taht came with the official wallpaper can (and should) be avoided by creating some sort of framework for it.  and end up with better final products as well.
<lassegs> nothlit: i think the divide is too obvious.
<kwwii> there is a wiki page with rules for making a wallpaper
<kwwii> and in the end the final decision is not up to the people on the forum
<lassegs> kwwii: yeah, im not making myself clear enough.
<kwwii> the forum is a great place for people to express their opinion, and we do take that into account, but....it is not the end all of the decision making process
<lassegs> kwwii: i understand its decided at the top but i think that theres a way to combine both that, and let users feel they have been included. More discussion prior to the release of the offical wallpaper could avoided this.
<lassegs> thats just one thing.
<kwwii> lassegs: everyone had all the chance in the world to discuss this on the mailing list and wiki
<nothlit> the key is probably making sure people know about the above ^
<kwwii> and if this would have been an issue on the forum before I would have also responded
<kwwii> I just do not check the forum all the time, I have way too much to do to spend my time browsing the forum
<kwwii> the biggest problem is that the number of people who contribute to the artwork is much, *much* smaller than the number of people who want to offer their opinion
<kwwii> I can appreciate it when everyone says something is bad but there is so much bike shedding when it comes to artwrok
<lassegs> kwwii: ok . Then lets create a framework for people to contribute.
<kwwii> lassegs: the framework is: post it on the wiki, send an email to the list to make sure it gets seen
<kwwii> discuss it here on irc
<nothlit> wow
<nothlit> the forums just posted this "Where was it discussed? In some obscure mailing list? In some irc chat? Why didn't they discuss it in some open space, like say, the biggest online gathering of Ubuntu users, both new and old, like say, ubuntuforums.org?"
<kwwii> lol
<nothlit> in response to a paste of something that just happened here
<kwwii> I could spend my entire day discussing things on the forum
<`23meg> kwwii, you may want to respond to this: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=3415202&postcount=186
<lassegs> kwwii: and by framework i mean not only technically, like gnome-look or whatevr, but an enviroment that makes an art student who just switched able to contrib in their sparetime. like programmers do with programs.
<kwwii> more important to me is to discuss it with those who actually contribute and work on artwork
<lassegs> but its probably best to postpone this discussion, you have probably more pressing matters to attend :)
<kwwii> see, I click on that link and I cannot respond
<kwwii> now I am supposed to browse through comments to find that and respond
<`23meg> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=555477&page=7 --> you can respond here
<kwwii> and in the meantime, nothlit has repsonded
<kwwii> erm, spelling
<soc_> kwwii: when you choose those wallpapers of animasl for univers, it seems that another persons has made "an improved" version as well (Expand HSV) so you could make sure you choose the one which looks the best ...
<kwwii> soc_: they should post it to the wiki then
<soc_> it is
<kwwii> then I will get an email with the change :-)
<soc_> so everyone of daminvilas wallpapers have an additional one made by "skiessi"
<lassegs> soc_: the original is best imho
<`23meg> "The problem with their assessment being that nobody outside the Art Team had seen this new wallpaper until THE DAY OF THE DEADLINE." --> from the forum thread
<soc_> sometimes the original, sometimes the others look better, imo
<kwwii> yeah, that is going to be a problem we need to work out
<lassegs> kwwii: thats what im talking about
<lassegs> kwwii: ++
<soc_> imo, the original elephant looks better
<kwwii> `23meg: not true, look at the wiki page
<`23meg> kwwii, I know
<kwwii> and anyway, who should I ask?
<nothlit> there isn't an official art team lol
<soc_> giraffe: i can't really decide ... the original looks warmer, the "improved" one sharper and more realistic
<kwwii> I am not about to post everything to some forum where every person who I have no idea about can post their comments on artwork, it simply does not work
<kwwii> I would spend all my time fending off people who know too little about the subject
<kwwii> I do have quite a few other things to do as well
<the_dingle> How about deciding on a wallpaper a week before the deadline, instead on it?
<the_dingle> *of on
<kwwii> the_dingle: it was decided a while before that
<soc_> and concerning lion, i would take the middle one from the original ...
<kwwii> look at the comments on the wiki page and on the mailing list and it quite evident
<kwwii> From:
<kwwii> Kenneth Wimer <kwwii@ubuntu.com>  (Ubuntu - Linux for Human Beings)
<kwwii>   To:
<soc_> ah no, it seems to be a improved one ...
<kwwii> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
<kwwii>   Date:
<kwwii> Tuesday 12:31:35
<kwwii> 
<kwwii> Hi all,
<kwwii> I am in the process of putting together a community wallpaper package. If
<kwwii> anyone has any final edits on their pics on
<kwwii> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/GutsyIdeas let me know asap and I'll
<kwwii> include them in the package - otherwise I'll pick versions from the wiki
<soc_> i think this looks the nicest from the lions ... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/GutsyIdeas?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=ubuntu-lion_2.jpg
<kwwii> page.
<kwwii> Thanks,
<kwwii> Ken
<kwwii> P.S. It looks like a version of brownFluid (IMG_4874.jpg) will be the default
<kwwii> in Gutsy. I am also looking for a second pic to replace "smooth chocolate"
<kwwii> from the Feisty package.
<kwwii> soc_: yeah, we will have to figure out a way to find the best on of those
<lassegs> kwwii: dont waste time on the forums, but i think you should create a framework so that people can respond for you, instead of the situation we got in now; you and your bosses against the world :)
<kwwii> perhaps we should include an extra package with just the animal wallpapers
<the_dingle> It's not the same wallpaper at all, kwii
<kwwii> lassegs: the funny thing is that those who actually do artwork know where to contribute and discuss it
<the_dingle> and it should be uploaded to the repos, not silently decided on a mailing list
<soc_> kwwii: i'll sleep now ... bye
<kwwii> soc_: see you
<soc_> kwwii: keep up the good work ..
<kwwii> the_dingle: the deadlines were made by me...and I purposely but them before the beta to solve issues like this
<lassegs> kwwii: obviously, because they find them. But there are like 10 contribs to the wiki page. Ubuntu has a hell of a lot more artists, professional designers, art students, and incredibly talented amateurs than that. We must ask us self why they arent contributing, and what to do about it.
<kwwii> lassegs: if that is really the case, I would love to see that problem solved
<kwwii> lassegs: in a lot of ways it is about people stepping up and taking responsiblity to help as well
<nothlit> well at the moment, there isn't too much of a collaborative effort
<lassegs> kwwii: agree 100%. first thing to do about this is to analyze the problem.
<nothlit> its a strike out on your own, trying to intepret what is needed and wanted sort of thing
<kwwii> nothlit: artwork like this is not really a collaborative effort
<kwwii> an icon set or such, yes...the one wallpaper not so much
<kwwii> so 100 people giving their ideas on how to change the one pic is not going to have a lot of effect on that one pic
<kwwii> one or two good ideas, perhaps
<lassegs> kwwii: its not as collaborative as say pidgin, but there are variations of collaboration.
<lassegs> kwwii: one or two that can be great.
<kwwii> then the artist simply says "nope, I cannot do anything more"
<kwwii> anyway...it is 24:00 on sunday here now.../me watches a film and goes to bed :-)
<nothlit> not as in an actual combined effort, but as in a community effort
<lassegs> kwwii: ill repeat myself. i think we have another 100 in our userbase like damianvilla, a banker from spain. We must enable these talents and get them to contrib.
<kwwii> I think that if you look at the wiki page you can see that there is a stronge difference in the quality of the pics submitted
<lassegs> 10-100-10 000 etc. just an example.
<nothlit> in the same way artwork forums etc have wip progress threads and it feels more like a team and building effort rather than the wiki post your image
<kwwii> lassegs: I would love to see more people step up, but I cannot force them
<nothlit> where a piece could potentially be heavily criticised
<kwwii> no, dicussing it with hundreds of people only turns artists off
<kwwii> unless all those hundreds are artists or really know what they are saying
<nothlit> i guess it does depend on if the masses start registering to comment
<lassegs> kwwii; ok. lets say one easy thing to do for the Hardy, announce a contest on ubuntuforums, with rules and everything. make it clear that it will be decided on top level etc., but lets create contributors out of sleeping talents!
<lassegs> look at how deviantarts comment system often works as feedback, where artists actually make better art off of it.
<`23meg> on which wiki page are the comments that came in before the deadline and decision?
* lassegs 's birthday is today :D
<kwwii> lassegs: I think that posting the relevant information and wiki urls, irc stuff, etc would be good but I do not think that hosting a contest on the forum is the right idea
* `23meg agrees
<lassegs> kwwii: i dunno, just an example. but lets map it out, find out what we can do.
<nothlit> lassegs: happy bday
<lassegs> thanks.
<kwwii> `23meg: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/GutsyIdeas
<kwwii> hehe, happy b-day
<kwwii> I am off for now....see you all tomorrow morning
<lassegs> yeah. bye.
<lassegs> and again thanks for making my day
<yharrow> hey guys
<yharrow> hows it going
<Ludwik> Sorry to bother you, but I have a question. I was reading your discussion and you seem all to agree that making the process of choosing the right image (wallpeper) more demcratic is a bad idea. Why?
<nothlit> Ludwik: the interests of the masses do not necessarily coincide with the goals of a project in terms of message, aesthetics, etc
<nothlit> but i do love democracy :D
<lassegs> i Ludwik i think its a good idea, but i accept that the decision will ultimatly be made by the bosses.
<lassegs> Ludwik: that wont change easily, so im trying to make the it more democratic, while it still gets decided on the top.
<nothlit> basically theres nothing wrong with popular opinion, but creating a mass vote is a bad idea
<nothlit> because there are no guarantees that it will get respected
<nothlit> at least, thats my view
<lassegs> nothlit: not because masses are stupid, but because our target audience isnt hte same people who will vote.
<lassegs> as troy_s says; a bigger userbase is better, therefor our artwork should target people who why are trying to get to be users.
<lassegs> whoever that might be :)
<Ludwik> nothlit - ok, I take the point, but on the other hand the situation like the current one, when basically input from the users is ignored isn't too good.
<nothlit> Ludwik: official artwork is decided by the founder of ubuntu
<nothlit> and he has a specific vision, and fears and needs
<lassegs> Ludwik: we have to work within these bounderies.
<nothlit> there are larger images, apparently
<nothlit> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Animals kwwii
<lassegs> nothlit: think he got that :)
<Ludwik> People seem to be very passionate about the Animals wallpapers (and I'm talking about normal users, for example on digg.com), reaction could be compared only to the excitement to the Compiz effects. And still it doesn't seem to matter...
<lassegs> Ludwik: kwwii changed his mind.
<Ludwik> He did?
<nothlit> Ludwik: they'll be bundled in ubuntu, or at least in the repos
<lassegs> Ludwik: it will be included by default, but not enabled. i think thats the best we can get
<lassegs> Ludwik: and the official will be revised.
<nothlit> people will be able to switch to them the same as they all switched to 'Dawn of Ubuntu'
<lassegs> nothlit: or chocolate
<lassegs> But I think the best way to get this to be more democratic (and produce a better final result) is to get people active in ubuntu artwork. digg comments will never be as important as a great contribution
<lassegs> you guys agree?
<nothlit> of course
<lassegs> then i think the first task is to find out how to enable user partisipation in a better way than we do today
<Ludwik> Right, but Digg coments works similar to the focus group. You could still use them to help you choose.
<kwwii> re, shortly....reading back, one thing to say: I intended from the beginning on to include the elephant wallpaper in the default package, that is why I asked for bigger versions. At first the author told me that he had not time to make bigger versions although on the weekend he found the time so it will be included
<Ludwik> BTW, I think people are so passionate about the default wallpaper, because they know that the first impression is the key. When they give Ubuntu CD to the friends they want them to say "WOW".
<lassegs> kwwii: ok sorry
<nothlit> lassegs: you should brainstorm and then submit it for discussion to the mailing list
<kwwii> back to bed
<Ludwik>  I'm a high-school teacher, I show my students different software products, and I know that thinks like that really matters.
<lassegs> nothlit: i want to brainstorm to you.
<nothlit> lassegs: lol sure
<lassegs> Ludwik: digg might not be the right people to have in a user group for ubuntu
<lassegs> Ludwik: digg comments are like amateur stand up night
<nothlit> i think brownfluid is an ok choice in terms of default, people who use xp, vista, osx, most of them will change from the default wp as well,
<lassegs> Ludwik: but of course it should be considered as well.
<nothlit> the key is to have quite a few outstanding ones as choices
<Ludwik> I think Ubuntu users has a similar profile to most of the Ubuntu users. And they might not be good at the design, but they know what they like.
<lassegs> Ludwik: but as I said previously, ubuntu users might not be our target audience
<lassegs> Ludwik: excisting ubuntu users knows how to change the default WP. And probably will anyways. first impression is important for new users and reviewers
<Ludwik> Of course I'm not saying that the choice should be demotratic in an automatic way, there always should be someone with vision deciding, but I think the user reaction is important when it comes to software.
<nothlit> thats part of the reason why the animal wallpapers are being included afaik
<lassegs> Ludwik: yeah, we agree. So lets stop talking and start to find out what to do about this
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-09-15
<EruditeHermit> hi, is it known which theme will be the default for intrepid?
<carciofo> good morning world
<aantn> morning carciofo
<carciofo> ah
<carciofo> hi
<carciofo> just about trying screencast
<carciofo> what do the ubuntu artwork?
<carciofo> what kind of artworks?
<carciofo> such as digital artwort i guess :- )
<Cimi> kwwii, firefox patch
<kwwii> Cimi: he
<kwwii> erm
<kwwii> hey
<kwwii> Cimi: not sure I understand what you mena
<kwwii> and I definitely cannot type today
<Cimi> kwwii, you asked me to remember you to ping a developer to ask if he would have patched firefox in order to add rounded entry
<kwwii> ahhh, right...I'll bug asac now
<kwwii> jolt my memory here...there is a patch available and we need to get the firefox maintainer to apply it?
<Cimi> the patch landed in 3.1 trunk, but I guess it should work for 3.0
<kwwii> ahh, right
<Cimi> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=332569
<Cimi> there's the patch
<Cimi> kwwii, the reason why I have changed "style" to "profile" is that I want to be able to add a real "style" option in the future: for example to manage a totally new style
<Cimi> (in murrine's code)
<Cimi> the actual *styles*, renamed to *profile = ...* are based to the murrine rendering code, they pass some gradients and options to the murrine code. they are not a real new style
<kwwii> Cimi: sounds like a very good idea
<_MMA_> kwwii: You're needed in -devel.
<kwwii> Cimi: do you have a link to the whole bug and not just the patch?
<Cimi> yeah
<Cimi> kwwii, so to make your theme compatible with the latest subversion just remove the "style = MURRINE" from your gtkrc
<Cimi> _MMA_, too
<Cimi> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=405421
<ubottu> Mozilla bug 405421 in Widget: Gtk "Ensure our widget painting is transparent for themes that support it" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<kwwii> Cimi: erm, this will effect a lot of themes I guess
<Cimi> kwwii, no
<Cimi> kwwii, just your theme
<Cimi> style = MURRINE was introduced in the SVN, so there should be only your theme that needs to be fixed
<dilomo> hey guys
<kwwii> Cimi: hehe, cool
<kwwii> Cimi: I'll remove that when I update the theme in a day or two
<dilomo> anybody knows how to overlap images in metacity theme?
<dilomo> like that : http://img150.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=89997_Jonined_122_801lo.jpg
<Cimi> dilomo, metacity should not use pixmaps
<dilomo> who said that?
<dilomo> if it is easier to do
<dilomo> why not use images?
<Cimi> because, and even benzea said to you, they *sucks*
<Cimi> and for example, given the bugged compiz+nvidia
<Cimi> you'll lose window borders and fail under a lor of artifacts
<Cimi> just try pixmap themes with compiz
<dilomo> well I'm using pixmaps only for the buttons
<Cimi> oh then it should be ok
<Cimi> anyway
<Cimi> you can't overlap
<dilomo> so back to the question: how can I overlap button images?
<dilomo> that sucks
<dilomo> :)
<Cimi> overlapping is not necessary
<Cimi> maybe it should be more useful to manage the different layouts
<Cimi> so you can have different images when you have only minimaze and close
<Cimi> and different images with all the buttons
<Cimi> you'll achieve what you want without overlapping
<Cimi> that means a better code
<dilomo> but is how is that possible? explain
<Cimi> i don't think it is possible
<dilomo> how do I do these layouts?
<Cimi> I've just said it should be better if metacity would support layourts rather than overlapping
<dilomo> ok
<Cimi> I'm not sure but maybe you can do this too
<Cimi> now
<Cimi> try to read frames
<Cimi> in the metacity.xml
<Cimi> you can manage different layout for utility ......
<dilomo> is there a way to detect if only close button will appear because
<dilomo> only then I need different image for the button
<Cimi> I can't help you, I'm busy till october
<dilomo> no I will need more checks to do that
<Cimi> but *maybe*
<Cimi> if you run metacity-theme-viewer
<Cimi> you can see how *dialogs* have no minimize button
<Cimi> so you can play with it
<dilomo> ok thanks for the tip
<dilomo> there is one case when the window has fixed size and cannot be maximized
<dilomo> that breaks everything I might make
<dilomo> I found a way to do it.
<CimiDS> well
<Elf1991> Hi people
<Elf1991> who is Russia ??
<Elf1991> gays !!?!!
<cody-somerville> No, the Russia isn't the gays.
 * _MMA_ is gay.
<Elf1991> cody-somerville are from Russia ??
 * _MMA_ tries despreatly to think of a "In Soviet Russia..." joke.
<Elf1991> ÃÃ«Ã¨Ã­ ÃªÃ²Ã® ÃÃ³Ã±Ã±ÃªÃ¨Ã© Ã§Ã­Ã Ã¥Ã² Ã  ?
<_MMA_> Elf1991: You asked. Nobody said "yes" SO there's your answer.
<Elf1991> Chert
<_MMA_> And the over-use of punctuation will get you nowhere. It's just annoying.
<Elf1991> sorry
<Elf1991> Designer I work here and want to help as nebud.
<_MMA_> Join the mailing list. http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art Help where you can.
<_MMA_> Elf1991: Do you have a portfolio? A place that shows your work?
<Elf1991> Sorry for my bad English
<Elf1991> I'm 3D modeller
<Elf1991> I was not portfolio. But I can find elaborating
<Elf1991> :)
<_MMA_> Do you have examples of your work?
<_MMA_> Link us.
<Elf1991> sure
<Elf1991> I just made the fish (which lasted 2 - 3 hours). I'm game developer. Allrigth now upload
<Elf1991> http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/6495/finishfishtj9.jpg - this is my work, but 30% my opportunities
<Elf1991> http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/1315/002vs3.png  - this is one of the machines for the mini-games (not smarter)
<Elf1991> As you?
<_MMA_> I don't understand.
<Elf1991> Do you like my work?
<dilomo> _MMA_ : he means this is one of the cars
<_MMA_> It's kind of small and hard to see.
<dilomo> because mashina in russian means car
<Elf1991> yes =)
<_MMA_> I see.
<dilomo> so Elf1991 do you have some bigger rendering?
<Elf1991> I'm have big view but he on work
<dilomo> can you make 3D cursors?
<Elf1991> yes sure
<Elf1991> I'm game developer
<Elf1991> cursors this is very easy for my
<dilomo> can you make a preview of pointer that is modern and new
<dilomo> for the future Ubuntu version?
<Elf1991> yes I'm designer
<dilomo> btw I'm Anton nice to meet you
<dilomo> I'm from Bulgaria
<Elf1991> cool
<Elf1991> Iliy
<dilomo> ?
<Elf1991> My name is Ilya
<Elf1991> I seldom write to English
<Elf1991> ((((
<dilomo> I understand
<Elf1991> =)
<Elf1991> I happen =)
<dilomo> You will learn as you type more and more
<Elf1991> sure I have a little time now, Sun Work, work
<dilomo> as _MMA_ said you should join the mailing list
<dilomo> to have all news and discussions
<Elf1991> sure I'm register through 2 as the clock come home
<dilomo> ÐÑÐ»Ð¸ÑÐ½Ð¾
<Elf1991> ÃÃÃ Ã²Ã» Ã¯Ã® Ã°Ã³Ã±Ã±ÃªÃ¨ Ã£Ã®Ã¢Ã®Ã°Ã¨Ã¸Ã¼ =)
<Elf1991> ÃÃ³Ã¤
<dilomo> However I was trying to say good job
<dilomo> in Russian
<Elf1991> Why good? I'm not undestand (((
<dilomo> Good because when you go home you will register to the mailing list
<Elf1991> AAAA yes yes. How many members our team ??
<dilomo> well there are many ppl out there.
<dilomo> I have a team that has 11 or so members
<dilomo> at the art-meeting we were around 160
<Elf1991> xm ... allright
<Elf1991> Well, all I went home. See you through the clock - two. Before the emergency meeting.
<_MMA_> dilomo: 160 was just the people in the room. I bet no more that 10 were there interested in the art.
<dilomo> probably but how many people are reading the mailing list?
<Elf1991> Bye
<dilomo> bye
<_MMA_> dilomo: Hard to tell. So many people drop off. So many just get the digest.
<dilomo> yeah it's hard to determine
<thorwil> i think i had cases of 70 hits a day on my blog from posting to the list
<dilomo> cool
<dilomo> I have to go
<dilomo> bbl
<thorwil> pukey things make me shine
 * _MMA_ shines his puke.
 * kwwii is not feeling well, laying down for a while
<_MMA_> lightweight
<_MMA_> thorwil: So. Whatcha wanna do around here for Jaunty?
<DanaG> mmm, gotta love the glitchy windeco on nvidia.  =Ã¾
<_MMA_> Got a bug number that says it's more than just your crackful system?
<DanaG> can't test right now... backlight inverter on the compiz-capable laptop is dead.  =Ã¾
<savvas> so we could mix and crossover jazz jackrabbit and an antilope.. in a yellowish colour :P
<DanaG> Mmm, 237 new messages in my gmail, all from the "Firefox shows an EULA!" bug.
<savvas> that was bug?
<savvas> heh
<_MMA_> So it shoulda read "DanaG: mmm, gotta love *my* glitchy windeco on *my* nvidia card.  =Ã¾"
<Cimi> the metacity should be improved
<savvas> i get the window decolourisation on nvidia too :\
<DanaG> And the glitchy buttons....
<DanaG> and the missing color except for one triangle all the way across.
<Cimi> write a better metacity theme
<Cimi> maybe your code could be better
<DanaG> Ehh, for now I just live with it.
<DanaG> And with my next laptop, I have ATI... so I'll be able to see whether it's just an nvidia issue after all.
<DanaG> s/have/will have/
<_MMA_> DanaG: That's right. Complain and do nothing. :)
<Cimi> but the metacity remains bugged
<thorwil> _MMA_: hmm?
<thorwil> _MMA_: i thought of combining the jackalope with the playboy bunny for an epic! wallpaper
<_MMA_> Cool. But I was asking on a bit more serious note. I have ideas, but don't wanna just do it all myself without input.
<_MMA_> Most likely will be what happens, but I wanna give people the chance.
<_MMA_> Though they'll still bitch later.
<thorwil> _MMA_: well, currently i wonder if i should try to push my project kyudo shortly after the ibex release
<_MMA_> thorwil: If you want to push it, I suggest we pull together and start soon. AFAIC, this cycle is over.
<thorwil> _MMA_: i failed to say no and hene work on an icon for a mud client. but i should get back to kyudo this week. meanwhile, please feel invited to read it and suggest modifications
<thorwil> _MMA_: https://code.launchpad.net/~t-w-/+junk/kyudo
 * _MMA_ clicks.
<_MMA_> thorwil: From what I see, this is heavily reliant on Canonical's involvement. Correct?
<thorwil> _MMA_: i just recently tweaked it a bit ... the idea is to run for either 1st or 2nd place. the effort and standards are the same
<thorwil> _MMA_: in short: be damn good. i canonical lifts us to default, great, otherwise we just offer what we have anyway :)
<_MMA_> thorwil: I would like to have a Skype chat with you and kwwii. Do you, or can you use it?
<thorwil> _MMA_: i only used ekiga once
<_MMA_> If you have no moral objections, please try it. It's no harder than making a Jabber account IMO.
<_MMA_> You'd be surprised how much it's used around Ubuntuland. :)
<thorwil> my spoken english sucks donkey balls, though
<_MMA_> hahah. It's fine. I heard you on your screencast. :)
<_MMA_> Trust me, I've dealt with *way* worse. ;)
<_MMA_> thorwil: Also, a cold beer sayz I have Troy back on the list for Jaunty. :)
<thorwil> lol
<_MMA_> :P
<thorwil> chatting with him is both enjoyable and frustrating ;)
<_MMA_> Don't I know it. :)
<DanaG> Does Skype get along any better with PulseAudio than it used to?
<_MMA_> I imagine. Since I can play sound with it. Flash and all. It also quite often comes down to your sound card.
<_MMA_> Damn. How do I clone in Inkscape?
<thorwil> alt-d
<Elf1991> Hello =)
<_MMA_> thorwil: Oh killer. Thanx
<thorwil> too bad there's no pure shape cloning, allowing to change colours
<_MMA_> thorwil: I got this wallpaper with the same object *duplicated* 1390 times. No wonder it's 25MB. :P
<thorwil> heh
<thorwil> _MMA_: you know about tiled clones?
<_MMA_> Heard it. Just havent looked into it yet.
<Elf1991> I registred =) (probably)
<_MMA_> Elf1991: You did. I saw.
<Elf1991> good, but I no log in (((
<Elf1991> Boys give links Hyde Gnome design for Linux
<andreasn> kwwii: ping
<thorwil> andreasn: about 1:40 ago: * kwwii is not feeling well, laying down for a while
<andreasn> oh
<andreasn> thorwil: have you tried out that sound theme?
<andreasn> that kwwii packaged in his ppa
<thorwil> andreasn: no. i never use desktop sounds, i enjoy the silence :)
<andreasn> well, yeah, I like a silent desktop as well
 * _MMA_ has tried it and ships a sound theme with Studio.
<Elf_Warrior> I would be over 20 minutes. And give me please documentation (link) for GNOME Desktope
<andreasn> there have been suggestions about using the sound theme upstream, so I wanted opinions if people thought it was good or not
<_MMA_> Elf_Warrior: It's not that easy.
<_MMA_> andreasn: Doesn't say "GNOME" to me but I do think it fits Ubuntu very well.
<Elf_Warrior> xm ... 	I was on it and hoped. And I am Russian =). Russian is not how much.
<andreasn> how would you say GNOME sounds like?
<_MMA_> andreasn: That's a good question. :)
<thorwil> gray and blue with a little strawberry
<andreasn> :)
<Elf_Warrior> All I went to bathe.
<andreasn> I have no idea myself, I tried some sounds called "Cleanus" or something a while ago, but it sounded all Super Mario Bros
<_MMA_> 1up!
<_MMA_> Here's one for ya.
<_MMA_> I got an SVG.
<_MMA_> Inkscape svg = 25MB
<_MMA_> Inkscape svgz = 8MB
<_MMA_> plain svg = 18MB
<_MMA_> plain svgz = 2.5MB
<_MMA_> WTH?
<andreasn> _MMA_: what sound is what?
<andreasn> what is sound1, info?
<_MMA_> Oh it's been a bit since I looked at it. I'd have to dig them up and I'm working on something atm. I thought they were labeled?
<andreasn> well, the startup and shutdown are, but not the others
<andreasn> don't let me interrupt if you're in the middle of something
<andreasn> I'll try to figure it out
<_MMA_> ok. I'll dig 'em up soon.
<Elf_Warrior> I am here =)
<Elf_Warrior> _MMA_ 	You Ã¯Ã¸Ã¬Ã³ me Hyde?
<Elf_Warrior> *give
<_MMA_> Elf_Warrior: I'm sorry. I don't understand what you want.
<Elf_Warrior> documentation for disigner for Linux
<Elf_Warrior> sorry on Linux
<_MMA_> Elf_Warrior: As I said, it's not that easy. And the language barrier will make it too hard. See if you can get someone to come in here and help.
<Elf_Warrior> You know me badly. I am 17 years old are already working art0director. All that easy - I was not smarter.
<lucazade> http://developer.gnome.org/doc/tutorials/metacity/metacity-themes.html
<lucazade> howto for metacity
<lucazade> looking for gtk theme howto
<lucazade> http://live.gnome.org/GnomeArt/Tutorials
<Elf_Warrior> Thank you
<lucazade> look at this
<lucazade> in gtk themes you should find how to build an interface under gnome
<Elf_Warrior> OOOO!!!! This is CSS style !!!!!!
<lucazade> let us know your progress in theming!
<_MMA_> PLEASE!!!!!  STOP!!!!! ALL!!!! THE!!!! PUNCTUATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<lucazade> :D lol
<Elf_Warrior> lucazade sure =)
<Elf_Warrior> AAAAAA lol. Creating theme - CSS style !!!!!! This is very easy !!! Very Very !!!!!
<_MMA_> Elf_Warrior: I'm not kidding. I don't want to kick you out the channel.
<Elf_Warrior> You can question? For what?
<_MMA_> Stop this -> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ????????????? <- To much.
<_MMA_> People don't speak like this.
<Elf_Warrior> ... sorryÃ¾ We are on the other. People like when the text escht emotions
<_MMA_> Not here.
<Elf_Warrior> maby
<_MMA_> No. Don't do it.
<Elf_Warrior> OK
<Elf_Warrior> Why write so few people?
<thorwil> we are busy
* _MMA_ changed the topic of #ubuntu-artwork to: Channel for the community artwork team | Wiki:  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork | Mailing list: http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art | Question: Who are we? What do we do? Chime in on the mailing list topics.
<_MMA_> So someone doesn't get anal...
* _MMA_ changed the topic of #ubuntu-artwork to: Channel for the community artwork team | Wiki:  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork | Mailing list: http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art | Questions: Who are we? What do we do? Chime in on the mailing list topics.
<Elf_Warrior> To some help with painting?
<_MMA_> Nice: http://www.linux.com/feature/147173
<andreasn> cool
<_MMA_> I know I got a couple of old PS plugins laying around I'd like to use.
<Elf_Warrior> And I'm not friends with GIMP ((
<_MMA_> This would have helped many around here as I know I've see this question alot. http://registry.gimp.org/node/9036
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-09-16
<kwwii> morning
<thorwil> _MMA_: hi! i wrote my mail regarding what we do right before yours calling the topic closed came in :)
<_MMA_> np.
<_MMA_> I updated the wiki and LP page. Lemmie know what ya think.
<_MMA_> I wanna test something. (bare with me)
<_MMA_> Hi COnn.
<_MMA_> *Conn
<_MMA_> !artwork
<ubottu> Find your themes at: http://www.gnome-look.org - http://art.gnome.org - http://www.kde-look.org - http://kubuntu-art.org - http://themes.freshmeat.net/browse/58/ - http://www.guistyles.com - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/ - Also see !changethemes and https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuEyeCandy
<psyke83> hey
<_MMA_> !artteam
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about artteam
<psyke83> !shoveit
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about shoveit
<_MMA_> !artteam
<ubottu> The Artwork Team is a community effort that aims to enrich Ubuntu by designing high quality, original and beautiful themes to be available in the repo as an *alternative* to the default look. For more info please see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork
<_MMA_> Cool
<_MMA_> psyke83: Cimi had some note for us to change a setting with the Studio theme. Lemmie look at the log.
<psyke83> gradient_shades, perhaps?
<_MMA_> Something about style=MURRINE I think.
<andreasn> kwwii: ping
<_MMA_> andreasn: He had to run to the store. Should be back soon.
<andreasn> damn, I always manages to miss him
<_MMA_> I'd expect him back any moment.
<kwwii> andreasn: pong
<andreasn> kwwii: hi, how are things?
<Cimi_> _MMA_, remove style=MURRINE
<kwwii> andreasn: good, busy but good...and yourself?
<_MMA_> Cimi_: Thanx.
<_MMA_> psyke83: ^^^
<andreasn> good, but cold. The heating in my apartment isn't properly adjusted to the conditions outside.
<kwwii> hehe, and where you live it is probably a bit colder than here
<psyke83> _MMA_, thx
<andreasn> kwwii: I wanted your opinions what you think about Mads Rosendahl Hansen's sounds and if it would be suitable for upstream or not
<psyke83> Cimi_: why is it necessary to remove? Will it become obsolete?
<_MMA_> yes
<kwwii> andreasn: I think that they would be perfect - but let us release them with intrepid first :-)
<kwwii> andreasn: the latest stuff is really good if you ask me
<kwwii> I'll be updating the my PPA later tonight
<kwwii> boah, I have to run now...my kid has judo in 20 min
<psyke83> kwwii: you'll need to adjust Human(-Murrine) and NewHuman as well, then. I can send you the updated gtkrcs if you're lazy
<kwwii> be back as soon as possible
<andreasn> kwwii: sure, no problem, it's too late for 2.24 cycle anyway, since all kinds of freezes are in place
<kwwii> psyke83: right, the changes that Cimi_ meniotned
<psyke83> ok, see ya later
<kwwii> psyke83: it would be great if you could send them to me
<psyke83> np
<kwwii> I promise I will be right back :-)
<psyke83> Cimi_: so are the tab stripes gone forever?
<Cimi_> psyke83, yeah
<Cimi_> also with newer revisions I've improved the look with dark themes
<kwwii> re
<Cimi_> kwwii, I haven't seen your mockups yet :P
<kwwii> Cimi_: because I haven't had time to finish it yet :-(
<Cimi_> preview? so I can stop you if I don't like them :P
<_MMA_> Anyone in here use Inkscape and have access to NFS shares?
<thorwil> no to NFS shares
 * _MMA_ smacks thorwil with a large trout.
 * thorwil shows to be immune, cause he doesn't even know what a trout is
<_MMA_> But Google does. :P
 * thorwil looks up after the attack
<thorwil> _MMA_: i'm un-defaulting kyudo now, btw
<_MMA_> Ok.
<thorwil> _MMA_: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~t-w-/%2Bjunk/kyudo/annotate/8?file_id=project_kyudo.txt-20080829180050-1jvy5xri2xm1fogv-1
<thorwil> _MMA_: and diff: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Et-w-/%2Bjunk/kyudo/diff/8
<thorwil> diff also, too bad there's no proper line wrap http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~t-w-/+junk/kyudo/revision/8
 * _MMA_ clicks.
<_MMA_> hell. brb
<thorwil> _MMA_: sorry, i just gave you links for rev8, should be rev9
<thorwil> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Et-w-/%2Bjunk/kyudo/download/9/project_kyudo.txt-20080829180050-1jvy5xri2xm1fogv-1/project_kyudo.txt?file_id=project_kyudo.txt-20080829180050-1jvy5xri2xm1fogv-1
<thorwil> diff http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Et-w-/%2Bjunk/kyudo/diff/9
<thorwil> _MMA_: guess i should move over to the wiki sooner than later :)
<_MMA_> That would be cool. :)
<psyke83> kwwii: sent
<kwwii> psyke83: excellent, I will try to package it tonight
<thorwil> _MMA_: tell me if you think it's ready for that and if you can accept it as a base for community-themes and breathe
<kwwii> although some other work came up (as usual it has to be done by tomorrow morning)
<_MMA_> thorwil: Sure. I got pulled into something here. Gimmie a bit to look through it and get my thoughts together. :)
<thorwil> heh, i wonder if the decision makers at canonical will let me run in such a situation with the countdown images for the ubuntu.com banner :)
<kwwii> thorwil: we tried to be as open about the banner stuff as possible...and all images made by difffernt people will be shown but only on  a special page
 * kwwii voted for thorwil's version :-)
<thorwil> kwwii: heh, thanks. i'm not complaining. yet :)
<kwwii> lol
<kwwii> is that a promise or a threat?
<thorwil> neither
<thorwil> kwwii: it was just that the indirect communication via matthew was a bit funny. now i'm waiting for the final word on the ubuntu.com banner. would be waiting, if i wasn't so damn busy, anyway :)
<kwwii> thorwil: if you need me to find out any information just ping me personally
<thorwil> ok
<Cimi_> kwwii, the patch?
<Cimi_> ff patch
<Cimi_> did you asked asac?
<_MMA_> bug 167706
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 167706 in inkscape "[INFO NEEDED] Cannot open svgz" [High,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/167706
<kwwii> Cimi_: yes, I talked to him yesterday, showed him the mozilla bug and patch as well as the launchpad bug and he said he would take care of it
<kwwii> Cimi_: so I guess it now depends on how well it works and what problems it might cuase
<Cimi_> to works it works
<Cimi_> since it is also part of 3.1
<Cimi_> but I need to patch murrine to see the benefits
<_MMA_> Sorry. I'm exploiting bugbot for the Inkscape channel. bug 270990
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 270990 in inkscape "Cannot open .svgz over NFS share." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/270990
<psyke83> kwwii: are you talking about the GtkEntry border issue?
<psyke83> *were
<kwwii> psyke83: yes, that was what I was talking to Cimi_ about
<kwwii> anyone here have any experience with making mosaics?
<lucazade> me not
<thorwil> *yawn*
<_MMA_> Night sir. :)
<thorwil> not quite yet
<cody-somerville> http://emonk.fi/work/xubuntu/xubuntu-countdown-draft-1.png :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-09-17
<rsc_> guys help. anyone know GTK theming here? my theme fails when the colors are set to default. "Invalid symbolic color 'fg_color'"
<dilomo> anybody knows how to theme the notification balloon here:
<dilomo> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17688393/Screenshot.png
<cody-somerville> dilomo, yup
<cody-somerville> You need to modify the source code
<dilomo> what source code?
<dilomo> of Rhythmnox?
<cody-somerville> no
<cody-somerville> of the notification-daemon
<dilomo> Rhythmbox*
<dilomo> explain
<cody-somerville> notification-daemon is responsible for those pop-ups
<dilomo> yes but can't I change their color without
<dilomo> modifying the src but
<dilomo> with using gtkrc match patterns?
<cody-somerville> I'm sure you can.
<dilomo> can you give me a tip or smth
<dilomo> or pint me to the source code
<dilomo> so that I can look up for the names
<cody-somerville> at the command line, type: apt-get source notification-daemon
<dilomo> thanks
<dilomo> I will try to do something
<dilomo> bbl
<dilomo> I'm trying this:
<dilomo> widget_class "*NotifyDaemon*" style :highest "newwave-notify-daemon"
<dilomo> but it doesn't work.
<dilomo> Any ideas?
<andreasn> it should be possible to set the theme used in gconf
<zniavre> isn't just >widget_class "*notif*" 	
<dilomo> probably but I need something that can change it from the gtkrc
<andreasn> I'm not sure that is possible currently
<dilomo> zniavre: I will try
<andreasn> but I could be wrong
<dilomo> andreasn: theming is hard task
<dilomo> zniavre: I had different style for the "*notif*"
<dilomo> actually the panel style
<dilomo> but it doesn't seem that the notify has these colors
<dilomo> here's example:
<dilomo>  http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17688393/Screenshot.png
<Cimi_> Still not in love with that menubar
<Cimi_> also I'm not convinced on the statusbar
<Cimi_> te icon theme should be much more sharp/contrasted
<Cimi_> given the high contrast of new wave
<dilomo> Cimi: I know about the icons
<Cimi_> use tango
<dilomo> but i don't have time for them
<dilomo> why are you not convinced about the statusbar
<Cimi_> it looks washed out
<dilomo> and the menu?
<Cimi_> haven't seen
<dilomo> I meant the menubar
<Cimi_> I really can't stand why we should copy osx with those dark menubars
<dilomo> this is not a copy but a usability feature
<dilomo> that allows you to concentrate on the contents
<dilomo> and your actual work not the menu and menubar
<Cimi_> well
<Cimi_> having a dark menubar is concentrating you to the menubar, not the contents
<Cimi_> so is is less usable
<dilomo> have you tried it out?
<Cimi_> when I see those screenshots, I'm noticing the dark menubar at first
<dilomo> it actually works and all the people I have asked say it works
<Cimi_> this is just suggestion imho
<dilomo> probably this is a first impression but
<Cimi_> http://www.trackback.it/wp-galleryo/le-nuove-feature-di-snow-leopard/snow-leopard-versione.jpg
<Cimi_> as osx
<dilomo> it works for me
<Cimi_> dark menubar
<dilomo> well thats toolbar and titlebar but
<Cimi_> same thing
<Cimi_> osx toolbar = out menubar
<Cimi_> *our
<Cimi_> since osx doesn't have a menubar in the window
<Cimi_> just be honest and say *well I was inspired*
<Cimi_> no one is killing you for inspirations :)
<dilomo> no I haven't had inspiration from mac
<dilomo> if you had carefully
<Cimi_> I'm just disappointed that we have three themes in the community artworks and all of these have this osx menubar
<dilomo> read the mailing list you had probably
<dilomo> noticed that it all started just like an experiment
<dilomo> way back in April or May
<Cimi_> ok
<andreasn> Cimi_: I think the drawback of using this kind of combined toolbar/titlebar is that on Mac OS X you can click and drag on the whole area, where with Metacity/GTK+ you can't
<andreasn> (as far as I know)
<Cimi_> yeah
<Cimi_> this concerns usability
<Cimi_> that's why in gnome the unfocused metacity still has the frame/border
<Cimi_> so
<Cimi_> -1 for the community themes
<dilomo> well you should try it out and then speak
<andreasn> it looks slick though
<Cimi_> dilomo, it is a real issue
<Cimi_> you can't know when the titlebar starts
<dilomo> http://img28.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=88676_NewWave_test_03_122_1054lo.jpg
<dilomo> it looked like this
<dilomo> before to make this gnoem "usability" thing
<Cimi_> this should be more usable
<dilomo> but everybody has taste
<dilomo> and I'm not making theme for visual invalids that
<Cimi_> because now you can see where the titlebar starts
<Cimi_> so you know where to place your pointer in order to move the window
<dilomo> cannot distinguish what's in front of them
<dilomo> well if I had make this
<Cimi_> and with a touchpad could be a trouble if you don't know where's the titlebar because it looks merged with the menubar
<dilomo> we would have sticked to old look from 1990
<dilomo> maybe it is not perfect now but that's not because I want it to be such
<dilomo> but because the software does not allow me to do it right
<Cimi_> but now we are 1980 from an usability point ov view with those themes, then
<Cimi_> anyway, having a separated window border doesn't mean *1990*
<Cimi_> it just doesn't mean *osx*
<Cimi_> oh yeah, you're not copying osx *LOL*
<andreasn> dilomo: I don't think Cimi is saying that you _have_ to make them distinguished, I mean, it's totally up to you, but it might end up with people using the theme sitting in front of their computers cursing because they miss the area where they are supposed to hit to move the window as it don't have any visual indication where to aim
<dilomo> aim at the title tex
<dilomo> text*
<Cimi_> yeah
<dilomo> and you are right
<Cimi_> do this with a touchpad
<Cimi_> gh
<dilomo> andreasn: I wish I could make it better either by
<dilomo> having a very simple patch that allows for the user to click the menu and drag the window
<dilomo> or by making inactive windows have their menu transparent
<Cimi_> also the 1px border on the borders of the window is copying osx
<andreasn> dilomo: I spoke to rhult, a GTK+ developer, and he said it would be a bit tricky to do (or impossible?) as window managment on OSX and GNOME works totally different
<Cimi_> also
<Cimi_> rhult is the developer of the gtk+ port over osx
<Cimi_> so he knows those terms
<dilomo> I have tried to report the bug ages ago
<Cimi_> dilomo, 1px border on the sides makes the window _Really_ difficult to resize
<andreasn> anyway, I don't think this is such a big deal really. I would kick and scream if this was the default that was being distributed to 10 million users, but it's just a community theme
<dilomo> and somewhere on gnome's bugzilla
<dilomo> and there was that patch
<andreasn> that made it work? oh.
<andreasn> url?
<dilomo> I will try to search but I'm not sure
<dilomo> I will find it
<dilomo> as to the one pixel borders
<dilomo> that is an issue of the window manager
<dilomo> and you have a 5px border at the bottom
<dilomo> here we go:
<dilomo> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=500437)
<ubottu> Gnome bug 500437 in general "Grab and Move a Window from Unused MenuBar and ToolBar Area." [Minor,Unconfirmed]
<dilomo> the menubar drag
<dilomo> yeah :)\
<dilomo> andreasn: what do you think?
<andreasn> I have to think about it. There seems to be both pros and cons of the approach. Probably need to ask a UI designer for input.
<dilomo> well wouldn't it be possible to be controlled
<dilomo> from the gtkrc file?
<dilomo> smth like this gtk-enable-animations = 1
<dilomo> but regarding menus
<andreasn> so there would be one behavior with one theme, but another behavior if you switched to another? sounds a bit eeeky to me.
<dilomo> well it depends on the look of the theme
<dilomo> plus a global override setting can be preset
<kwwii> dilomo: I was working on a new package, where is your latest stuff?
<dilomo> only on LP
<Cimi_> dilomo, in the statusbar you can do vertical resizing
<Cimi_> so your metacity is actually less usable
<Cimi_> for horizontal resizing
<dilomo> be happy man
<dilomo> I don't want to argue with you
<dilomo> if you have will you will find a way, you know ;)
<thorwil> bonjour!
<_MMA_> Guten Tag
<dilomo> ÐÐ¾Ð±ÑÑ Ð´ÐµÐ½! :)
<kwwii> moin moin
<lucazade> ciao!
<dilomo> :-D
<Cimi_> dilomo, I am happy. I'm just trying to teach you that you should take care of those usability issues if you want to make in the future a theme that is something more than a simple community theme
<Cimi_> usability should always be more important than appearance
<_MMA_> Cimi_: Usability strongly depends on audience.
<thorwil> usability and appearance are not separated
<dilomo> I agree with all of you
<_MMA_> What's "usable" for some, is not for others. There's no such thing as universal usability.
<Cimi_> _MMA_, those two issues I've claimed are not depending on the audience... because almost everyone is resizint the windows
<Cimi_> oh no _MMA_ , there is :)
<Cimi_> talk to calum benson
<Cimi_> usability engineer @ Sun
<kwwii> usability is a metric not a state
<kwwii> it is an action not something you achieve
<_MMA_> No. It's a complete dilution. And since your English and my Italian skills aren't the best, it's not something we should get into.
<thorwil> there just happens to be issues that are the same or similar for all people within a very large group :)
<Cimi_> _MMA_, I understand english very well, I'm just in trouble when comes to write complex paragraphs
<dilomo> Usability is if people like to use their themes
<_MMA_> thorwil: Sure, like I said: "There's no such thing as *universal usability*." Nothing is one-size-fits-all.
<dilomo> and despite of the minor glitches they are happy
 * _MMA_ notes the Studio theme. ;)
<Cimi_> the fact is that with dilomo I've had a discussion like that "with your theme it is difficult to move a window" "no people don't move windows", "with your theme you can't do horizontal resize" "no people won't resize their windows"
<thorwil> _MMA_: yes, exactly. there's a reason i included a definition of usability with context in my text :)
 * thorwil -> coffee
<dilomo> As I said I won't argue anymore
<dilomo> :) - remember
<_MMA_> Cimi_: Well, though true (and I would suggest a heavier border myself) if dilomo knows his audience, and caters to them, that's fine. If people don't like it, they won't use it. Simple.
<lucazade> appereance and usability depends on razionality in my opinion
<Cimi_> _MMA_, ok
<Cimi_> as andreasn said "I don't think this is such a big deal really. I would kick and scream if this was the default that was being distributed to 10 million users, but it's just a community theme"
<Cimi_> I must quote him
<dilomo> Me too "(14,46,33) andreasn: it looks slick though"
<Cimi_> kwwii, I've talked with asac about the firefox patch, it will be fixed for beta1, so I will fix for the default theme
<kwwii> Cimi_: excellent
<kwwii> Cimi_: I guess it is safe for me to make another murrine svn snapshot
<kwwii> ?
<Cimi_> yeah, also please remove style = MURRINE, not rename it to profile
<Cimi_> I've written an email to the mailing list
<Cimi_> I would like to have your opinions on that matter
<kwwii> right, in the current version which I am preparing we have commented that out
<Cimi_> @kwwii, _MMA_ , dilomo , thorwil ... who wants :)
 * _MMA_ has commented it out.
<_MMA_> Cimi_: It will break alot of themes on GNOME-Look as many are writing for SVN now. SO I would make an announcement there or on you blog about the change.
<andreasn> hum, I tend to get quoted today
<andreasn> :)
<dilomo> :)
<dilomo> Cimi: btw when is that argb going to be real?
<dilomo> I mean upstream
<Cimi_> _MMA_, yeah you're right
<Cimi_> dilomo, you mean the engine or the gtk patches?
<dilomo> the patches
<dilomo> because as far as I know they are the hard thing
<dilomo> not all developers are willing to include them
<Cimi_> within 6 months or 1 year
<Cimi_> dilomo, no, that's not true
<dilomo> ok cool
<dilomo> :)
<Cimi_> please notice that RGBA doesn't mean transparency
<Cimi_> it just means *please give us another channel, over red green and blue, give us !alpha!*
<Cimi_> and then the engine coders could take care of it or no
<dilomo> interesting
<thorwil> hmm, so that channel could be for octarine instead of alpha :)
<andreasn> anyway, I don't care about usability this or usability that, a design decision is a design decision with pros and cons
<andreasn> http://mpt.net.nz/archive/2008/08/11/usability is great reading, so is The Design of Everyday Things
<andreasn> back to work
<thorwil> the later is the greater reading ^^
<thorwil> _MMA_: so, do you think i should move kyudo to the wiki already?
<_MMA_> thorwil: um, um, um... gimmie a sec. Gotta handle the kids here. :)
<thorwil> heh, ok
<dilomo> andreasn: nice one
<kwwii> ok, I just almost everything in my PPA
<kwwii> most all of it is for hardy and intrepid
 * thorwil hands kwwii an "updated"
<_MMA_> thorwil kwwii whoever: Can we have an impromptu meeting in say, 45 mins to discuss kyudo and it's would-be impact on the communities future?
<thorwil> _MMA_: ok with me. for the whoever, the only other one known to be knowing about it is troy
<thorwil> talking about http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Et-w-/%2Bjunk/kyudo/download/9/project_kyudo.txt-20080829180050-1jvy5xri2xm1fogv-1/project_kyudo.txt?file_id=project_kyudo.txt-20080829180050-1jvy5xri2xm1fogv-1
<_MMA_> thorwil: np. We can use this to get others up to speed. :) But as far as this being on the wiki, I would say putting it on its own page for people to look over would be great. I also think it would lower the barrier for collaboration a bit.
<kwwii> _MMA_: yepp, let's skype first :-)
<thorwil> _MMA_: the only reason it is not on the wiki is that didn't want easy access for everyone. up to now ;)
<_MMA_> thorwil: Sure. I get it. :) So I say go ahead for its own page. And we can go on from there to see if we can officially adopt it as a design guideline for the community.
<_MMA_> kwwii: Ok. Say, in 30?
 * _MMA_ really needs to straiten the house before he sits on the computer all day. :P
<kwwii> _MMA_: yepp
<kwwii> _MMA_: do we want to ping jono?
<kwwii> today is his birthday I here
<kwwii> hear
<_MMA_> kwwii: If that's the purpose of the Skype chat I think today, and the coming days will be difficult to chat with him.
 * _MMA_ is away for 30 mins or so.
<Cimi_> dilomo, new wave looks good, compliments
<dilomo> I can't understand
<Cimi_> ?
<dilomo> well just before some time
<Cimi_> I've just tried it
<dilomo> you were saying it is bad
<Cimi_> =)
<Cimi_> no
<dilomo> well  thank you :)
<Cimi_> I have said I don't like notebooks and menubars
<Cimi_> and I can confirm that I don't like them
<Cimi_> dilomo, the theme lacs of the focus on the norebook
<Cimi_> *lacks
<dilomo> ok now (as you have tried the theme) I can say
<dilomo> I agree with you to some degree
<dilomo> the tabs may change because they look somehow strange
<dilomo> but the menusystem is not (only in Ibex the main menu will become light)
<Cimi_> have you tried reducing the contrast of the buttons and other styles?
<Cimi_> s/styles/widgets
<dilomo> why?
<Cimi_> for trying
<Cimi_> people seems to like low-contrasted themes
<Cimi_> (just take a look @ oxygen)
<dilomo> I have but
<dilomo> i didn't like how it looked
<Cimi_> oh ok
<thorwil> contrast is a difficult topic because it is strongly affected by the display, display settings and environment /lighting conditions)
<Cimi_> exactly
<Cimi_> thorwil, but New Wave borders are really contrasted
<dilomo> when you decrease the contrast of your laptop you will get better image ;)
<dilomo> well there should be all kinds of themes
<Cimi_> I'm using a professional colorimeter to adjust the display to standards
<Cimi_> I won't change them :)
 * thorwil bows before Cimi_ 
<dilomo> ok that was just a joke
<dilomo> In my next themes I will take your tip under consideration
<Cimi_> oh
<Cimi_> a gimp mockup
<Cimi_> DEFAULT (high): http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/175266/Screenshots/high-contrast.png
<Cimi_> MEDIUM: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/175266/Screenshots/medium-contrast.png
<Cimi_> LOW: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/175266/Screenshots/less-contrast.png
<dilomo> the low is too washed out
<dilomo> maybe smth between Default and medium will be good
<kwwii> yeah, I think so too :-)
 * Cimi_ give a kiss to his high-contrast monitor :)
<Cimi_> here the contrast is still high on the low, this confirms what thorwil said
<Cimi_> s/give/gives
<Cimi_> when'll start writing in english without making mistakes?
<dilomo> when the pc starts to write from our voice  ;)
<Cimi_> it should translates my italian, then
<Cimi_> :)
<dilomo> wow that would be perfect
<dilomo> talk native write in English
<Cimi_> there was a fun video about speech control
<dilomo> haha
<Cimi_> dilomo, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCSgkUnlGGA
<Cimi_> it simply doesn't work!
<Cimi_> it is so fun when he repeat the commands because it didn't work
<dilomo> I'm wondering if the program learns form him
<dilomo> then it will be unable to recognize native English :)
<Cimi_> when he says "cut"
<Cimi_> 2.20 minutes
<Cimi_> AHAHAHAH
<dilomo> :D
<_MMA_> Hi Conn
<dilomo> its fun indeed
<psyke83> hi
<_MMA_> psyke83: When you can, please email me the latest revisions to the Studio theme with Cimi's new recommendations/fixes.
<Cimi_> psyke83, do not rename style to profil
<Cimi_> *e
<Cimi_> remove it instead
<psyke83> Cimi_: in the revisions I sent to Ken, I simply commented the line
<psyke83> Cimi_: is that the only recommendation you made? I didn't see your original note
<dilomo> hey psyke83 do you know how to theme the notify balloons from within the gtkrc file?
<psyke83> dilomo: I haven't checked them, but they inherit the tooltip colours, don't they?
<dilomo> yes but not all  of them
<dilomo> look here : http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17688393/Screenshot.png
<dilomo> the color on the left is ugly
 * thorwil pokes _MMA_ 
<psyke83> dilomo: that's libnotify, and AFAIK it doesn't support theming yet. See: http://trac.galago-project.org/ticket/122
<dilomo> wow opened 2 years ago
<dilomo> I guess that it won't be fixed at least in a year :)
<dilomo> at least it can be made to pick better colors not hardcore them
<Cimi_> psyke83, but ubuntu is theming it
<Cimi_> there's a setting in gconf
<Cimi_> /apps/notification-daemon/theme
<dilomo> I looked through the src code and the new style is complicated c code
<dilomo> which means I can't use it from the gtkrc file
<Cimi> of course you can't, but maybe should be possible to write that them in C
<Cimi> I mean, of couse you can't theme it with the gtkrc only
<dilomo> It's too complicated for me as I've never code visual gtk stuff
<dilomo> I prefer to wait the day when I will be able to set it up from within gtkrc
<Cimi> anyway the default theme looks better than the ubuntu's
<Cimi> you could use gconftool to replace it
<dilomo> yeah looks better now
<dilomo> it's too edgy
<dilomo> but better
<thorwil> _MMA_: any caveats i should know of when creating that wiki page?
<psyke83> _MMA_: sent the update a little while ago, btw.
<_MMA_> psyke83: Got it.
<psyke83> Cimi: it was just the "style = MURRINE" that needed removal?
<Cimi> yeah
<_MMA_> thorwil: Not really. I can clean up anything if you need help later.
<Cimi> psyke83, read here http://www.cimitan.com/murrine/project/murrine/development
<Cimi> so you can stay up-to-date
<psyke83> Cimi: great, thanks
<Cimi> psyke83, it automatically updates from SVN
<DanaG> Oh yeah, have you heard of HP's new DreamColor display?  30-bit color depth.  I wonder if Linux supports that...
<DanaG> Heh, when on KDE (such as on the lab computers at school, since their Gnome is freakishly old), I often use the HighColor Classic theme, with the KDE2 windeco.
<thorwil> is there a content license implied on the wiki?
<_MMA_> Not that I know of.
<_MMA_> People have put licenses on pages though.
<thorwil> _MMA_: should we apply CC-BY-SA?
<_MMA_> At your discretion. Think about it's future use.
<_MMA_> SA is fine by me though.
<thorwil> _MMA_, kwwii: i will stop editing for a while now: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/KyudoGuidelines
 * _MMA_ bookmarks
<thorwil> _MMA_: you are listed as technical lead with link to your wiki page :)
<_MMA_> :P
 * thorwil considers changing that into lead gurner
<_MMA_> thorwil: *Added Table of Contents. See what you think.
<thorwil> _MMA_: that's good. though that page might see quite some splitting up
<thorwil> _MMA_: what happened to the first headline?
<_MMA_> Ot was pushing the 1st section of text way down. Try it if you like.
<thorwil> no need, this stuff makes jan tschichold cry, anyway :)
<_MMA_> s/Ot/It
<thorwil> http://leogg.wordpress.com/2008/09/16/sfd-2008-artwork/
<_MMA_> thorwil: I was gonna contact him. I don't know if he speaks English. "Byron"
<kwwii> I bet he speaks spanish pretty well though :p
<_MMA_> Si
 * thorwil -> dinner
<kwwii> yeah, time for band practice...bbl
<stemount^> e me!
 * thorwil builds an archer
<nand> Oo
<DanaG> Oniasdfasdfas dfasdcaefrawe araghh lagggg
<nand> So do I
<PRGUY85> what did you all think of new wave's new metacity?
<__mikem> the new human theme is nice but the round corners on the windows still have pixelation and it still feels arhaic
<kwwii> do you mean the newhuman theme or the new "human" theme?
<kwwii> ie the dark one or the light one?
<kwwii> and which background are you using with it?
<__mikem> kwwii: newhuman
<__mikem> I am using the background with the firebird thing
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-09-18
<kwwii> __mikem: thanks for mentioning it, I will look into it
<kwwii> the truth is that metacity doesn't do rounded corners very well but it shouldn't be too bad, maybe there is a way to fix it
<__mikem> kwwii: some gradients would be nice in areas where you have solid color
<__mikem> brb, have to make a complaint to resident services about noise
<kwwii> time for sleep...see you tomorrow
<psyke83> hi
<kwwii> hi psyke83
<psyke83> hey Ken
<thorwil> hola!
<psyke83> oi
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-09-19
<Cimi> kwwii, you should update ASAP
<Cimi> community themes are faulty with the contrast
<thorwil> hello!
<kwwii> hi thorwil
<kwwii> thorwil: btw, _MMA_ won't be around for a few days, he has some stuff to take care of
<thorwil> kwwii: yes, got mail from him saying so :)
<kwwii> cool
<carciofo> hi there
<carciofo> a question about videoediting
<carciofo> what to an ogg theodora video get on you tube?
<thorwil> carciofo: i'm not entirely sure, but it could be that you can submit in theora format directly
<carciofo> or so
<carciofo> o knbow
<carciofo> it must be an avi
<carciofo> i have cinelerra
<carciofo> looking for the option export in avi
<carciofo> what to do?
<kwwii> I just use ffmpeg but it is quite confusing for many
<kwwii> or mencoder perhaps, but again, quite confusing
 * kwwii gets lunch
<carciofo> and where in cinelerra find i the option?
<thorwil> carciofo: http://lampcomputing.com/node/27
<carciofo> ah tnx
<carciofo> so ganz bin ich noch nicht schlau gfeworden
<carciofo> is ffmpeg ein eigenes programm
<carciofo> oder ein exportcodec in cinelerra?
<thorwil> carciofo: ffmpeg is a separate application
<carciofo> ah
<carciofo> tnx
<thorwil> what's the common observation here, does the list get the most random opinions art the start of each release cycle, or is it more towards the middle?
<kwwii> thorwil: at the very beginning we get lots of random ideas and at the end we get random opinions
<thorwil> ah, right. kinda forgot the ideas :)
<thorwil> good night!
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-09-20
<thorwil> good morning!
<andreasn> wtf, I just scanned the ubuntu art mailing list and there is another Andreas Nilsson
<andreasn> :)
<andreasn> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2008-September/007895.html <- not me :)
<thorwil> would the real andreasn please stand up, please stand up ^^
<thorwil> if you search for my name, you get results that imply that there are 2 or 3 people of the same name, all likely in germany. luckily i havn't seen any sign of them being active in the free software realm
<andreasn> Nilsson is a pretty common family name in Sweden
<andreasn> my brother had a dude in his class who were also named Peter Nilsson, the teachers had to name them by the place where they lived
<andreasn> and then they moved into a apartment together with another friend of them....
<thorwil> lol
<elky> before i dominated my name in google searches, there was a couple of american journos and a south african UN person with my name who showed up
<elky> the journos still do, not seen any mention of the un person for ages
<thorwil> he went missing. where have you been when that happened, elky? ;)
<elky> heh
<elky> holy crap, there's 4 other melissa draper's in my linkedin network
 * thorwil notices that the canonical graphic designer job posting disappeared. after only a few months ...
<thorwil> is there a way to get text flow to the left of images in the wiki?
<kwwii> thorwil: a table is the only way I guess
<thorwil> kwwii: seems so. moinmoin knows other ways, but they are not installed, it seems
<kwwii> yeah, the limiting factor of installed modules seems to be the biggest problem with out wiki
<thorwil> no big deal, just a bit much white space :)
<kwwii> I gave up trying to make it look any different than the default as it seems impossible :-(
<kwwii> and rather ugly if you ask me
<thorwil> oh yes! :)
<thorwil> i saw there are other themes to choose in user settings, but decided not to, as i need to see what most will see
<kwwii> well, the other "themes" are mainly just the header graphic and colors
 * kwwii watches a film
<jacksonhyde> evening all! anyone active?
<thorwil> active in what way? scuffle through the streets, seeking fresh brains to devour?
<jacksonhyde> well, that sounds like fun right there, but not really what I was looking for.
<jacksonhyde> I was wondering if anyone had any time to talk about the Ubuntu artwork team.
<jacksonhyde> I'm a graphic designer and I'd love to get involved in the project.
<thorwil> jacksonhyde: we just recently had a discussion about the definition of the artwork team
<jacksonhyde> ended in tears? :)
<thorwil> heh, no
<thorwil> jacksonhyde: first of all, join the mailing list if you havn't already
<jacksonhyde> yes, doing so now.
<thorwil> jacksonhyde: said discussion was to some degree about the common misconception that the artwork team gets to work on the default theme
<jacksonhyde> I see.
<thorwil> what is happening right now is that we have a few small teams working on community themes
<jacksonhyde> cool.
<thorwil> these will offered alongside
<jacksonhyde> Basically, I'm currently working for a global cosmetics brand and down to my contract I can't do any other commercial work.
<thorwil> but only Mark Shuttleworth and to some degree Kenneth Wimer decide on the default theme and wallpaper
<jacksonhyde> Unfortunately for me, I really want to expand my portfolio, especially in the realm of interface and user-experience.
<thorwil> jacksonhyde: we have high demand for professionals
<jacksonhyde> well, I've been designing since I could hold a pencil. My mum is a pro designer, my grandad was a pro-illustrator.
<jacksonhyde> I guess you can say it's in my blood. :)
<thorwil> don't make me jealous ^^
<jacksonhyde> :P
<thorwil> it is theoretically possible to create a theme or wallpaper and have it picked as default
<Cimi> designing an UI does not require artistic skills
<thorwil> this more or less happened with the hardy heron wallpaper
<thorwil> designing anything doesn't require any skills. the result will talk for itself, though
<jacksonhyde> Cimi: that's a bit of a contradiction in terms.
<jacksonhyde> I'm not an artist in the sense of oils and canvases, but I do see user-interface design as an art form.
<jacksonhyde> sorry, I should say *good* design is an artform
<Cimi> yeah, it is
<Cimi> but I meant
<Cimi> despite walls and some icons
<thorwil> jacksonhyde: do you have a portfolio up somewhere?
<dilomo> UI is very sophisticated form of design
<Cimi> the GUI doesn't require any artistic skills
<jacksonhyde> I can show you some of the stuff I've worked on at past agencies.
<thorwil> yes, please
<jacksonhyde> http://www.celotex.co.uk
<jacksonhyde> http://www.totallyhome.co.uk/
<jacksonhyde> that was at the last agency
<dilomo> Cimi: it requires if you are going to use pixmap enginme
<dilomo> engine*
<Cimi> no one is going to use that engine, and I really hope it will be removed in GTK+ 3
<thorwil> jacksonhyde: what has been your responsibiliyt on those sites exacty?
<jacksonhyde> at the agency before that I did clientside development and worked on some pretty big sites http://www.fujifilm.co.uk
<jacksonhyde> on celotex and totally home I worked with a senior designer. He basically set the theme and I was responsible for page layouts and user-interaction.
<jacksonhyde> so yeah, I spend most of my time in CS suites, but I love to get my hands dirty with XHTML, CSS, JS etc etc.
<thorwil> jacksonhyde: so your things is interface and graphic design? not so much information architecture or illustration?
<jacksonhyde> I'd be the first to admit my portfolio is pretty slim, which is why I'm trying to expand it by working on stuff like this.
<jacksonhyde> thorwil: yes, exactly.
<jacksonhyde> is there much call for such skills in this project?
<thorwil> jacksonhyde: seems you would be better off with a website effort, not a desktop theme, what is what we concentarte on here
<jacksonhyde> yeah, I guess.
<jacksonhyde> Is there a similar web-orientated team?
<thorwil> jacksonhyde: kinda. there's #ubuntu-website
<thorwil> jacksonhyde: they don't think so much in a ... design way
<jacksonhyde> hehe...mostly developers?
<thorwil> pretty much
<kwwii> but if you think you have little say in the artwork for the desktop I bet that there is even less on the websites
<PRGUY85> jacksonhyde: would you be interested in helping out some community theme teams?
<jacksonhyde> yeah, I want to help anybody really.
<thorwil> jacksonhyde: you should join that channel and talk with newz2000 for official site and maybe qense for a communiyt project
<jacksonhyde> I fully support the OpenSource movement so I'd like to contribute my skills wherever I can.
<PRGUY85> jacksonhyde: well do you know the New Wave theme? We are looking for aid
<thorwil> jacksonhyde: contributing to one of the theme teams isn't a bad idea
<dilomo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/NewWave?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=newwave-meta.png
<Cimi> jacksonhyde, I could offer you something better
<dilomo> image of New Wave
<PRGUY85> I'm no designer but I'm helping dilomo with ideas and testing the theme out
<Cimi> feel free to query me
<thorwil> jacksonhyde: if you want more freedom, it's better to target the next-next release, though, as we are late in the cycle
<jacksonhyde> here's the embarrassing thing, I'm not actually running Ubuntu at the moment, but I've set up a VM on my Mac and I'm download 8.04LTS as we speak.
<jacksonhyde> I should be picking up a MacBook in October sometime, Ubuntu is going to be the primary OS on it as well.
<PRGUY85> jacksonhyde: no shame there hehe
 * jacksonhyde blushes
<jacksonhyde> diplo: that's a nice theme, I'd be happy to help you out.
<thorwil> jacksonhyde: most here prefer to have stuff done with free tools, but most here are no fanatics ;)
<thorwil> jacksonhyde: plus apple is kinda our official goal-post, so it's good to know it first hand ^^
<jacksonhyde> I'd much prefer to use open source tools (and I'm not trying to start a GIMP vs PS debate here), but I can work most efficiently in PS>
<dilomo> jacksonhyde: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/NewWave
<dilomo> if you are interested
<rsc_> hey guys.
<thorwil> hi Rico
<rsc_> i need a little advice here.
<rsc_> someone edited the wiki page for the Dust Theme, and uploaded their own edits of the GTK theme.
<aantn> ouch
<aantn> rsc_: what was changed?
<rsc_> I'm not sure I'm in the position to be, but I'm kinda upset that changes like these don't go through me (I understand things have to be democratic, but as someone who created the concept and the vision for it, I think it might be best if I know about changes.)
<rsc_> I think it was just the GTK color scheme
<rsc_> I'm not very familiar with the whole open source idea. is my concern valid? should I start seeking other venues of publishing/collaborating/updating the theme?
<thorwil> rsc_: your are likely right to be upset
<aantn> rsc_: yeah
<rsc_> (other than the wiki)
<aantn> rsc_: you could always do it via launchpad
<rsc_> bazaar?
<thorwil> rsc_: you should find it who did it and why
<thorwil> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/DustTheme?action=info
<aantn> rsc_: that would also make it easier for people to file bugs on the bug tracker
<rsc_> actually, for now, i edited the page to mention that it was edited. (I didn't revert it or anything yet)
<aantn> rsc_: people would be able to submit patches that could then go through you're review
<jacksonhyde> bye guys, thanks for all the info. I'll be back! (you've been warned).
<aantn> er, *your
<jacksonhyde> *and gals
<jacksonhyde> if there are any...
<thorwil> jacksonhyde: heh, np
<rsc_> haha. I ought to learn bazaar soon.
<rsc_> (or is there an option for git or svn? :P)
<aantn> rsc_: it's _really_ easy
<thorwil> launchpad might have import options, bit is all about bzr
<aantn> read the five minute guide and you'll be up and using it
<thorwil> rsc_: bzr is sure worth it. i still think that it's a good idea to talk with the one doing the edit, though
<aantn> rsc__: I'm not sure what the last comment you saw was...
<aantn> later
<PRGUY85> anyone that wants to help me with New Wave please contact me
<dilomo>  PRGUY85 is responsible for the theme
<dilomo> while I'm absant
<dilomo> and that might be a long time ;)
<thorwil> dilomo: best of luck on your way!
<dilomo> thanks man
<thorwil> dilomo: a city we know? what are you studying?
<dilomo> well it is in my country Bulgaria, the city is its capital Sofia
<dilomo> I'm going to study Architecture and Urbanism
<PRGUY85> wow nice
<thorwil> never heard of that Sofia ;p
<dilomo> :)
<PRGUY85> hehe its the capital!
<dilomo> now you have
<dilomo> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Sofia&ie=UTF8&ll=42.488302,24.65332&spn=21.882686,39.550781&z=5&iwloc=addr
<thorwil> dilomo: so, when will we here of revolutionary open-source city-architecture out of sofia?
<dilomo> :D
<dilomo> I hope its soon
<thorwil> could be one of my former professors studied there
<thorwil> no wait, mixed that up
<thorwil> with bucharest, shame on me
<dilomo> :)
<dilomo> they are right next door
<dilomo> right now I'm in this city
<dilomo> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Plovdiv&ie=UTF8&ll=42.145237,24.75106&spn=0.005377,0.009656&t=h&z=17
<rsc_> sorry bout that
<rsc_> is there a log i can check? I got disconnected after "<thorwil> rsc_: bzr is sure worth it. ...".
<thorwil> rsc_: one moment
<rsc_> https://launchpad.net/+tour/branch-hosting-tracking is the closest to a "bazaar guide" i can find there :)
<thorwil> rsc_: http://rafb.net/p/hgUk2w42.html
<rsc_> thanks :)
<thorwil> np
<thorwil> dilomo: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Plovdiv&ie=UTF8&ll=42.145237,24.75106&spn=0.005377,0.009656&t=h&z=17
<thorwil> dilomo: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Plovdiv&ie=UTF8&ll=42.145237,24.75106&spn=0.005377,0.009656&t=h&z=17
<dilomo> what about this place?
<thorwil> dilomo: that where i live :)
<dilomo> you have to be kidding me man
<dilomo> explin
<dilomo> explain*
<thorwil> dilomo: or did you mean the first link?
<dilomo> (22,52,36) thorwil: dilomo: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Plovdiv&ie=UTF8&ll=42.145237,24.75106&spn=0.005377,0.009656&t=h&z=17
<thorwil> dilomo: oh, the link doesn'T carry enough info
<thorwil> dilomo: i actually did a "From here"
<thorwil> sory bout that
<dilomo> np
<dilomo> I used the Link
<dilomo> link button to copy it
<aantn> rsc_: I just saw the update to the wiki page
<aantn> rsc_: you handled that very nicely
<thorwil> dilomo: aha! http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Plovdiv,+Bulgaria&geocode=&dirflg=&daddr=moenchengladbach,+germany&f=d&hl=en&sll=42.145237,24.75106&sspn=0.004757,0.009538&ie=UTF8&ll=44.418088,20.34668&spn=9.38456,19.533691&t=h&z=6
<dilomo> nice :)
<dilomo> bye everyone
<thorwil> dilomo: good bye!
<thorwil> and good night! :)
<dilomo> thanks
<rsc__> rargh. launchpad/bzr is a little frustrating. :)
<rsc__> (trying to figure out how to put somethign in the project's "downloads" page)
<kwwii> rsc_: just reading back... I think that as the leader of the team you should be consulted about changes...putting things in bzr would solve these problems as you would have the only official archive and others could branch from that to show their ideas without changing your ideas
<kwwii> and with that, I am off to bed
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-09-21
<thorwil> kwwii: i can't find your palette anymore. only thing i do find is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Official?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=ubuntu-palette.png
<kwwii> thorwil: I'll send it to you per email
<thorwil> kwwii: ok, thanks
<thorwil> strange how mdz is subscribed to only one particular page of those i'm editing
<kwwii> thorwil: freaky that he would subscribe to any art page really
<kwwii> but if he finds the time to read it, good for him :-)
<thorwil> heh. just my Process page won't be that enlightening, though :)
<JoeyReds> hey guys - what do you think of this - http://img92.imageshack.us/my.php?image=comp1ra3.jpg
<JoeyReds> not finished yet obviously.
<thorwil> JoeyReds: jacksonhyde?
<JoeyReds> :)
<JoeyReds> +10 points
<thorwil> i just hope you will stick to one nick in future, makes things much simpler :)
<JoeyReds> heh, yeah I will.
 * JoeyReds sticks
<thorwil> JoeyReds: you might want to tell us a bit about your intentions there
<JoeyReds> well I was just playing about really.
<thorwil> JoeyReds: i like the breadcrumb widget, with a rounded "origin". the last, active button is problematic, though. that kind of darkening tends to say recessed, bu it isn't
<JoeyReds> I wanted to see what a dark title bar looked like and it all kind of came from there really.
<JoeyReds> I can recess it, similar to the back/next drop downs.
<JoeyReds> yeah, the breadcrumbs is my favorite part.
<JoeyReds> I'm going to make my own icons, but for now I just used the Hardy ones.
<thorwil> JoeyReds: the icons on buttons don't quite do it. the rounded buttons are problematic for i think the say Apple
<JoeyReds> I pretty much ripped them from Firefox actually.
<JoeyReds> but yes, they are quite appley
<thorwil> ff 3 is adapted to the mac/win/linux platform, afaik
<thorwil> in looks, i mean
<JoeyReds> ah yeah, I just booted FF in ubuntu and I see what you mean.
<JoeyReds> I guess I'll have to be a bit more original. :)
<thorwil> JoeyReds: the content part (white) looks very clearly sunken in, which i think is very good. however, the divider is unclear. the status bar at the bottom doesn't tell me if it comes forwards or tries to step back
<JoeyReds> yeah, I haven't really looked at that bit yet, just stuck it in there for completion's sake.
<JoeyReds> so what kind of process is used to actually build the theme?
<thorwil> JoeyReds: there are other here who can answer that much better
<thorwil> JoeyReds: but generally, you need to pick a theme engine and write a theme for it
<thorwil> JoeyReds: where it obviously makes sense to choose one that is or will be in ubuntu
<JoeyReds> Murrine?
<thorwil> JoeyReds: we have one engine author here, Cimi
<thorwil> yes
<JoeyReds> yeah I was speaking to him last night.
<JoeyReds> his website ranks #2 for 'murrine'
<thorwil> from mockup to implementation is quite a barrier
<JoeyReds> so I see.
<thorwil> JoeyReds: for the next cycle, i hope i can convince people to work in a dual approach. to target a current engine for the upcoming release, but to also work on mockups not bound to current limits. to see what should be made possible
<JoeyReds> sounds interesting.
<zniavre> bonjour / hello
<thorwil> feet on the ground, head in the clouds :)
<thorwil> hello zniavre
<zniavre> sorry to give opinion i really like the biggest button on your mockup
<JoeyReds> the back/next buttons.
<JoeyReds> ?
<zniavre> yes
<JoeyReds> don't be sorry about giving an opinion!
<zniavre> im more used to read than speak
<JoeyReds> yeah, they're very similar to the mac Firefox buttons.
<zniavre> i do not care they do some good looking too
<JoeyReds> yeah, exactly what I thought.
<JoeyReds> as thorwill said they are a bit too mac-ish.
<thorwil> is that the actual ff3/mac look? http://www.stupendous.net/files/ff3b4mac.png
<zniavre> there is in wiki a nautilus mockup with just one button bigger than another ,looks really nice to make "modern" look
<JoeyReds> a little different.
<thorwil> can't find another shot so far
<JoeyReds_> that's how mine looks in Leopard
<JoeyReds_> hmm...
<thorwil> btw, xs.to is a very nice image hoster
<JoeyReds_> what does the _ suffix mean?
<JoeyReds_> I've actually got my own server but couldn't be bothered to FTP.
<JoeyReds_> but I'll remember that.
<thorwil> JoeyReds_: if get thrown out of irc and get back, your old self is still "locked in"
<thorwil> JoeyReds_: so irc clients usually have alternative nicks to use in that case
<JoeyReds_> ah yes, I remember that from my old IRC days.
<thorwil> per default oldnick_ and oldnick__
<thorwil> aided by nickserv, you can actually kick your ghost self out, but it seems rarely does anyoe bother
<JoeyReds_> I'm not fussed
<thorwil> registering with nickserv is a good idea, anyway. to avoid having your nick stolen. also it can be that you can't PM without
<thorwil> JoeyReds_: how's your experienced regarding formalized process? briefing, research, conception, design ... goals, audience, message, requirements?
<zniavre> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/Ubuntu_8.10_Guideline_Proposal_%28Keyhole%29?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=SampleNautilus_Small.png
<JoeyReds_> well I have to use such processes every day at work.
<JoeyReds_> although the brand managers haven't seemed to have quite grasped it yet, much to my team's annoyance.
<JoeyReds_> zniavre: cool, so it's already been talked about
<JoeyReds_> ?
<thorwil> JoeyReds_: i ask because i'm working on something along those lines for the next and coming cycles. maybe i can announce it this evening or during monday
<JoeyReds_> setting up formalized processes?
<JoeyReds_> I'm all for it.
<thorwil> JoeyReds_: yes. naturally it's an offer, not a requirement
<JoeyReds_> I think at spec stage, you *have* to look at target audience, at planning stage you'd be an idiot not to set milestones and for production stage you need a brief for efficient work,
<thorwil> JoeyReds_: it's not official yet, but not exactly a secret here, so: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/KyudoGuidelines
<JoeyReds_> looks good.
<thorwil> JoeyReds_: my own training is actually in industrial design. i will be happy for input, especially from a pro :)
<JoeyReds_> well I can offer any expertise I have.
<thorwil> cool :)
<JoeyReds_> Are there project managers in the artwork group?
<JoeyReds_> and if not, why not?
<thorwil> JoeyReds_: kwwii (Kenneth Wimer) is employed as art director at Canonical. it is actually not his job to her the art community, but he did anyway, to some degree :)
<thorwil> JoeyReds_: we are trying to keep the chaos down and have a meritocracy
<JoeyReds_> I see.
<thorwil> herd the art community, i wanted to write
<JoeyReds_> brb
 * thorwil -> coffee
<JoeyReds_> k
<JoeyReds> how about this for button structure: http://xs131.xs.to/xs131/08380/comp2643.jpg
<JoeyReds> is it just me or are the ubuntu forums down?
<rsc__> hi fellas :)
<thorwil> hi rsc__
<rsc__> not sure where to ask this. its not directly an artwork-related question, but how can i do something like FOO=`date +%Y` in a makefile?
<rsc__> i'm trying to make some Makefiles for my themes to help ease packaging.
<rsc__> hoora, its $(shell date +%Y)
<rsc__> Damn. setting up a PPA looks like hard work
<rsc_> damn i can't even figure out how to make a .deb of a gtk theme. haha
<thorwil> rsc_: ask MMA or kwwii on monday
<Nece228> does intrepid beta will have brand new theme?
<dashua> rsc_: http://picpaste.com/Screenshot_1.png
<dashua> Nice work.
<dashua> I like the new scrollbars from trunk.
<dashua> Is there any other way to get the gtkrc's to work with murrine trunk other than changing style - profile?
<Nece228> dashua: this will be default in intrepid?
<dashua> Nece228: No, this a community theme.
<dashua> Canonical has apparently hired a UI designer for default.
<Nece228> dashua: so ubuntu intrepid beta will have brand new look?
<Nece228> dashua: and new icons?
<dashua> Nece228: Hopefully. :)
<Nece228> dont you know when murrine transparency will be released public?
<CimiDS> no I don't
<Nece228> i cant wait for it
<Nece228> :]
<CimiDS> it doesn't depend on me
<Nece228> the thing i notice is that murrine is not faster than clearlooks, compare clearlooks classic and murrine
<CimiDS> it requires a gtk+ patch to enable RGBA colormap by default
<Nece228> its hard, but cool
<CimiDS> it depends on the roundness
<CimiDS> and the options
<Nece228> then why you say that its 30% faster?
<Nece228> it can be even slower too
<CimiDS> because with default values it is
<CimiDS> and consider that i've improved clearlooks performances since 2.18
<CimiDS> it was slower when i've written the first murrine release
<CimiDS> now they are comparable
<Nece228> i want gtk engine which has animated buttons :(
<CimiDS> and both really fast compared to any pixmap theme
<CimiDS> why you need those? to slowdown you system?
<Nece228> it dont slow down your system, kde style polyester is as fast as plastik for me
<Nece228> i didnt see any difference in 900 mhz machine ;]
<CimiDS> kde 3 is not using vectorial drawings
<CimiDS> with antialias
<CimiDS> kde4 was the first release to introduce this
<Nece228> hmm
<CimiDS> while gnome introduced it 3 years ago
<CimiDS> antialias is slower
<Nece228> CimiDS: so gtk2 is more powerful than qtx?
<CimiDS> in terms of vectorial drawings they are comparable
<Nece228> CimiDS: so i think there's no point to create gtk3
<Nece228> CimiDS: and gnome3 with it
<CimiDS> maybe gtk+ has more features, though it is slower because it lacks of a opengl backend
<CimiDS> no, gtk+3 is necessary because there's too much code inside gtk2 which stops further development (to preserve API compatibility)
<CimiDS> with 3.0 much code will be removed, opening the way to new features
<Nece228> CimiDS: oh, you are really clever
<Nece228> omg
<Nece228> cimi opua - murrine founder
<Cimi> I'm the author of murrine, so I'm the founder of that channel
<Cimi> easy :)
<Nece228> Cimi: but qt4 seems to be MUCH more heavy than gtk2
<Cimi> heavy?
<Cimi> what do you mean?
<Nece228> Cimi: my english is bad sorry, i mean gtk2 is much more faster than qt4
<Cimi> yeah
<Cimi> opengl backend is not enabled by default
<Nece228> Cimi: when i enable video rendering (composite) gnome becames much more smooth
<Cimi> though gtk+ has clutter to draw opengl canvases (to embed opengl stuff inside a program)
<Nece228> Cimi: is this somethink like opengl backend?
<Cimi> no
<Cimi> but they cache the windows
<Cimi> with compiz the windows are inside the video card's VRAM
<Nece228> Cimi: can i ask some other question?
<Cimi> y, but i will answer later
<Cimi> a bit busy actually
<Nece228> Cimi: ok
<Cimi> :/
<Nece228> Cimi: what do you mean by also few dollars to donate me a Coke?
<Cimi> donations are a way to say "thanks" to someone who have donated his time to the free software. I usually drink a lot of Coke :). btw i will ask for more donations, actually I'm on a nintendo DS because i don't have a laptop :( neither a cheap one
<Nece228> Cimi: my dictionary shows that coke is drugs like heroin or somethink lol
<Cimi> lol
<Cimi> coke is the beverage
<Nece228> Cimi: i thinked that you are using drugs :D
<Cimi> in italy it is also known as Coca Cola
<Nece228> Cimi: yeah i understand now
<Nece228> Cimi: i love italy, the best designers in the world are in italy
<Cimi> thanks
<Nece228> Cimi: your welcome
<Nece228> Cimi: ok i have to go sleep - tommorow hard day
<Nece228> bye
<Cimi> bye
<aantn> dashua: who did canonical hire?
<savvas> coke is short for cocain :P
<Cimi> oh shit
<savvas> haha
<pwnguin> Cimi: you're using DSOrganize?
<pwnguin> you know, a DS and flashcart is probably more expensive than a eee
<savvas> DiSOrganize? :p
<pwnguin> it's sort of a palm pilot app for the DS that also has useful stuff
<pwnguin> unlike palm
<savvas> ah nice
<pwnguin> web browser, irc
<Cimi> pwnguin, I bought this DS a long time ago
<Cimi> btw I'm using CLIRC, which is comparable with a complete irc client (supports logs and file trabsfers)
<pwnguin> heh, i have a DS, DS lite, and I bought a tabletPC in part to have a ds emulator ;)
<JustinWhite> Hello?
<thorwil> echo
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-09-14
<mac_v> kwwii: i think you should flip the empathy status bubble horizontally , since the user nam will be on the right
<mac_v> name*
<kwwii>  mac_v ?
<mac_v> kwwii: the user-* icons... since in karmic the icon is to the left of the name
<kwwii> mac_v: hrmmmm, someone else could do it to ;)
<kwwii> all the SVGs are there
<mac_v> hehe ;p
<kwwii> hi mat_t, welcome back!
<mac_v> kwwii: what happened to the vertical  battery icons?
<mac_v> mat_t:  hi   \o/
<kwwii> mac_v: they will be included in the next update, which should happen today or tomorrow perhaps
<mac_v> nice :)
<mat_t> hi kwwii, mac_v :)
<psyke83> kwwii: hey, got a second to discuss the gtk theme bug?
<kwwii> psyke83: sure
<kwwii> the one that I pointed out the other day is that there are too many active orange selection colors at the same time
<psyke83> kwwii: fire up the widget factory, highlight "GtkCombo" and then click on the button beside it - you'll see the selected colour darken very slightly. This is the bug, right?
<psyke83> i.e. it's not distinct enough
<psyke83> well, some themes darken the selected colour (e.g. Clearlooks/Clearlooks Classic), but some will change the colour to grey (e.g. Fedora's Nodoka)
<psyke83> I'm just wondering what you want the Human theme to do, since there's some inconsistency
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<kwwii> psyke83: right, it looks almost the same
<kwwii> psyke83: only the current highlight should be orange, the "old" one should become grey or such
<psyke83> kwwii: alright, I'll fix that up for you. Do you want me to fix it for Human-Clearlooks and/or Darkroom too?
<kwwii> psyke83: that would be killer
<psyke83> cool... while I'm tinkering, did you notice anything else that needs changing or tweaking?
<kwwii> psyke83: nope, that was all the I noticed
<psyke83> kwwii: sent, let me know if that's ok when you've taken a look
<kwwii> psyke83: excellent, thanks...I'll take a look at it asap
<psyke83> the grey is a shading (0.88 of the background colour). I chose 0.88 as it's the same shading of "pressed" buttons, but if you want it lighter, let me know
<kwwii> psyke83: that looks perfect, thanks
<kwwii> I'll update the package
<psyke83> kwwii: cool
<psyke83> :)
<kwwii> the usability people will be happy again :p
<psyke83> kwwii: my major grip with the theme is that you can't click on the scrollbar area when the mouse pointer is at the rightmost edge of the screen: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/422511
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 422511 in human-theme "problem with new scrollbar in Human theme - GtkRange::trough-border set to 2" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<psyke83> unfortunately, I think that's not something we can fix without hacking gtk or the murrine engine, but I'm not too sure
<psyke83> *gripe :P
<psyke83> kwwii: btw, the new presence icons are nice (ignoring that the available icon doesn't get used properly at the moment)
<psyke83> I'd love to see these icons in empathy itself too (I can't stand the circles and triangles)
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-09-15
<thorwil> kwwii: morning! i went through the whole set yesterday, so i'm done with that part
 * mac_v bribes thorwil to use mac_v's submission ;p
 * thorwil accepts bribes only in cash
 * mac_v sad on finding only lint in pockets
<mac_v> thorwil: hmm... had an idea... > right now for buttons the button has a fixed shape and the icon is displayed within the shape of the button... what if the button conforms to the shape of the icon? the button detects the alpha and doesnt use the alpha , would that look nice ?
<thorwil> mac_v: i guess that would look wonky. also non-trivial to implement. i doubt you would find someone to do it
<mac_v> hehe , ;) yeah finding someone to implement it would be the really tough part ;p
<thorwil> i wonder what's up with the links to large versions of MadsRH's backgrounds at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/Backgrounds/Extra_Photo/
<thorwil> starting with the 2nd, the links lead me to pages for renaming instead of the images
<thorwil> but the markup looks right to me
<MadsRH> thorwil: don't know! haven't noticed it before. Well, the images are also in the Flickr pool
<thorwil> this wiki software only pretends to work. but the illusion is not complete
<kwwii> thorwil: cool, I only gopt half way through :p
 * mac_v anxiously waiting for mat_t to finish and push the final version of boot splash 0.0
<zniavre> is it usplash ?
 * zniavre is updating it right now
<mac_v> zniavre: its not out yet ;)
<zniavre> sorry
<mac_v> it is some magic brewing in canonical's labs ;p
<zniavre> mr doob one ?
<mac_v> i dont think so
<zniavre> ok
 * zniavre is wrong 
<mac_v> zniavre: care to share your metacity theme? the one you showed the other day?
<zniavre> http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=86285   here it is
<mac_v> oh... you updated it :) , nice
<mac_v> thankx
<zniavre> you are welcome
<zniavre> i must restart bbl
<mat_t> zniavre: mr doob's designs were very nice, but not currently implementable
<mat_t> mac_v: the final design is being implemented now, should land soon!
<mac_v> \o/
<mat_t> ;)
<mac_v> mat_t: but i miss the !="quiet" option :(
<mac_v> that was there in usplash :)
<mat_t> mac_v: ?
 * mat_t wonders if he should be ashamed he doesn't know what !="quiet" option is
<mac_v> just a sec let me check
<mac_v> maybe the settings changed
<mac_v> hrm , thats weird the grub.cfg is now unreadable :(
<mac_v> mat_t: when we remove the "quiet" option from the kernel line , we get a list of the process which are happening , that seems to be missing now :(
<mac_v> xsplash is just suppressing the list which usually is displayed by usplash , now we cant know if any fault arises ...
<mac_v> mat_t: any ideas how to have the processes that are loading to be displayed?
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<zack19> hello all
<FLOZz> hi zack19 _o/
<zack19> hello FL0Zz
<zack19> question.. which is better xubuntu or gnome?
<mac_v> !best
<ubottu> Usually, there is no single "best" application to perform a given task. It's up to you to choose, depending on your preferences, features you require, and other factors. Do NOT take polls in the channel. If you insist on getting people's opinions, ask BestBot in #ubuntu-bots.
<zack19> is the new 9.10 Karmic Koala up yet?
<Cimi> zack19, 9.10 = 10 2009 = october 2009
<zniavre> :o)
<mac_v> October 29 , 2009
<mrmcq2u> anyone from the official art team awake?
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-09-16
<mat_t> morning art people!
<thorwil> morning!
<mac_v> good evening ;p
<kwwii> howdy all
<knome> hello kwwii
<knome> kwwii, i might have asked you already, but was there a bigger resolution photo of the uds jaunty group photo than in flickr?
<kwwii> knome: I probably have one at home...at the office currently...ask me again on friday ;)
<knome> okay
<knome> how is the ubuntu artwork coming up?
<kwwii> knome: good, I am starting to work on gdm...that is the last main piece we have to get in place
<kwwii> well, that ond the wallpaper
<kwwii> the new xsplash artwork should be included soon now that the licensing is cleared up
<knome> okay :)
<kwwii> the extra wallpaper stuff is going very well ;) I am very proud of how that is working out
<knome> extra wallpaper?
<kwwii> the photo wallpapers that people have submitted
<kwwii> http://www.flickr.com/groups/1188458@N24/ is the shortlist
<kwwii> naturally, we are not done with that yet though
<knome> soo.. you are including some photo wallpapers for karmic?
<kwwii> yes, up to 5 of them
<knome> right
<kwwii> for +1 I we are going to add a button to "get more backgrounds" or such
<knome> are they going to be packaged in a separate pkg?
<kwwii> probably...we also thought about putting them in an ubuntuone share
<knome> hmm
<knome> i'd really like to see them as one package
<knome> that way eg. xubuntu users could use them easily
<mac_v> hmm... > something wrong about this one :(  http://www.flickr.com/photos/jccamus/3233583409/in/pool-1188458@N24
<knome> like.. what?
<mac_v> the rocks look a bit dirty to me and/or the whites look like blotches
<knome> mmh
<knome> i wouldn't use such photo as wallpaper, but i can't see anything awful there :)
<mac_v> if it was a blue whale the whites would have been good ;)
<knome> lol
<mac_v> yeah , exactly , i wouldnt use it as a wallpaper too.. :(
<mac_v> kwwii: thorwil ^could you reconsider that for something else :)
<kwwii> hehe
<mac_v> quite an interesting shortlist :)
<mac_v>  \o/ i found the loch ness monster  > http://www.flickr.com/photos/hisgett/220401494/in/pool-1188458@N24/
<thorwil> the problem with selecting photos for me was that too many lack in composition (like it was an alien concept to some of the submitters) and a number of photos are simply not sharp (or sharp in the right spot)
<mac_v> hehe , i submitted one like that ;p  ,without sharpness
<mac_v> this one has a name on it ? o.0 , is that allowed> http://www.flickr.com/photos/eaguado/3566911719/in/pool-1188458@N24/
<mac_v> but i like the pic :)
<mac_v> kwwii: who is > troy.sobotka < ... sabdfl?
<knome> hah
<knome> suppose not :P
<mac_v> oh , if thats a real name , sorry for the misunderstanding :)
<knome> i think it is
<mac_v> hehe , yeah > https://launchpad.net/~troy-sobotka
<thorwil> http://troy-sobotka.blogspot.com/
 * thorwil goes for a walk
<knome> have a nice walk thorwil :)
<kwwii> lol...no troy is not mark
<kwwii> now that is funny, you've made my day
<knome> :D
<knome> i also had an incident today that made my day and at the same time, made me cry
<knome> we have this trainee this year and he is supposed to write a html->rss script with perl
<knome> the funny thing is that this is his last training and he should go in the work life after this
<knome> BUT
<knome> he had had some problems with writing the script (ok, bad enough)
<knome> and i had to tell him how to parse an url from the html file
<knome> even that was not enough, i had to tell him which functions to use
<kwwii> newbies ;)
<knome> i even wrote examples on how to use the functions, but he still thought it was hard
<kwwii> often they just don't trust themselves
<knome> yeah, and this guy is supposed to be working as a programmer in one year or something
<kwwii> is anyone else here running karmic?
<kwwii> hehe
<knome> i installed it yesterday in my laptop, and i couldn't log in :P
<knome> have to look more into it, it was 4am when the update finished :P
<mac_v> kwwii: i'm on karmic
<mac_v> what in the world is this > http://www.flickr.com/photos/abcnogueira/3383659360/in/pool-1188458@N24/
<mac_v> i'v been trying to figure it out for 5mins!
<kwwii> mac_v: was going to ask a question but I figure it out
<mac_v> hehe ;)
<knome> that was an easy one
<mac_v> knome: well... sensei enlighten me ;p
<knome> it's a lamp :P
<knome> an interesting design, totally
<mac_v> a lamp! o.0
<mac_v> very intriguing
<mac_v> kwwii: is the shortlist still being expanded? when i started browsing it was 88 now there are 95 !
 * mac_v is being paranoid today 
 * mac_v grabs his tin foil hat 
<kwwii> mac_v: yes, it is still being expanded and, once we invite the pics they still need to accept the invitation
<mac_v> oh...  :)
<kwwii> how many MBs was empathy on the CD?
<mac_v> ^ if you were asking me , i dont know , i'v been using karmic since alpha 2 ;)
<zniavre> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/LoginManager   my theme is match almost this gdm  (clear border vs black bg)
<zniavre> http://gnome-look.org/content/preview.php?preview=1&id=86285&file1=86285-1.jpg&file2=86285-2.jpg&file3=86285-3.jpg&name=zni3
<zniavre> you can use it as base if you want
<mac_v> kwwii: ^
<mac_v> zniavre: AFAIK , they are sticking with human for now :) and karmic+1 willhave a new theme
<mac_v> zniavre: you use compiz for the transparency stuff?
<zniavre> no rgba patch and murrine
 * mac_v wonders where to find rbga patch ;)
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<zniavre>  mac_v http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Another+Gtk+RGBA+module+?content=100968
<mac_v> zniavre: oh... its rbga *module* , i was searching for rbga *patch* , thanks for the link :)
<zniavre> sorry
<zniavre> http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Nautilus+RGBA+support?content=85094    there is this one too but for nautilus only
<mac_v> hm... i get the same effect using compiz too , didnt know about this patch earlier
<zniavre> with compiz the text aera is also translucide no?
<zniavre> and menu are not rounded
<mac_v> yup , the whole window becomes translucent
<zniavre> "translucent"  ok
<mac_v> heh , you french guys make everything sound sexy ;p
<zniavre> Ã©Ã©Ã©Ã© hopefully you can't hear me
<kwwii> zniavre: cool, thanks..I will look into that
<kwwii> mac_v: no, for gdm we are not using the human theme
<mac_v> kwwii: i meant for metacity = human
<kwwii> mac_v: ahhh, well we'll also have a different metacity in gdm
<kwwii> zniavre: that is *really* close and now I wish I hadn't spent the day hacking on metacity :p
<mac_v> kwwii: you should pay more attention to irc ;) he has been showing that them for a few days now ;p
<mac_v> theme*
<kwwii> mac_v: hehe, I should spend less time in an airplane :p
<kwwii> this is my 17th trip this year ;)
<kwwii> business trip, no including my holidays
<mac_v> canonical pays for coach or business?
<mac_v> if its coach unlucky you ;p
<kwwii> only economy for us :/
<kwwii> then again, I have so many miles that I am close to being a gold member of lufthansa
<thorwil> http://www.alanjohns.fsnet.co.uk/goldmember/goldmember.jpg
<mac_v> lmao , the looks like kwwii `;p
<mac_v> he*
<kwwii> lol, I wish I had that much hair :D
<knome> yes, the only difference between your and his look
<knome> http://www.alanjohns.fsnet.co.uk/goldmember/austinskin.jpg <- gosh that reminds me of that winamp2 skinning mood
<knome> /fashion/trend
<kwwii> :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-09-17
<kwwii> good morning
<knome> morning
<mac_v> kwwii: hi... what new with the NM icons? any naming change?
<mac_v> whats*
<kwwii> mac_v: erm, you mean the ones in the panel?
<mac_v> kwwii: i think so , yeah , wasnt that the one you were discussing with asac? i had asked him a few days ago and he had said NM will be using fewer icons
<mac_v> no idle , send-receive , transmit
<kwwii> mac_v: right, I just sent him a lock and a bubble like icon for the menu of nm
<kwwii> currently nm is totally messed up on my machine
<mac_v> hmm... ok , then i'll wait for the Human theme update ;)
<kwwii> yeah
<kwwii> last night I also fixed the naming on the xdg user dir icons
<kwwii> so there will be an update soon
<mac_v> kwwii: where is the xdg name guidelines page? not the lp bug , but any other gnome site?
<mac_v>  but *is there* any
<kwwii> mac_v: yes, at freedesktop.org
 * kwwii co-maintains the naming spec
<mac_v> ;)
 * mac_v somehow cant find it :(
<kwwii> sorry, I was in a meeting, let me find a link
<kwwii> http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/icon-naming-spec
<mac_v> awesome , thankx , i'v been looking for that for so long :)
<kwwii> ask and ye shall recieve ;)
<thorwil> this fits the spirit of ubuntu really well! :)  http://www.flickr.com/photos/arghmonkey/2284421781/in/pool-1188458@N24
<kwwii> thorwil: man, you don't know how much I like that pic
<thorwil> kwwii: i like it too, still see a dissonance
<thorwil> kwwii: flickr search is too dumb for searching for license. but you can search for tags. hence ...
<thorwil> there gotta be a way to add your own tags?
<thorwil> only on pictures from "friends". stupid flickr is stupid
<thorwil> haha, there is an advanced search that also takes CC licensing into account, but you can't limit that one to a group's pool
<kwwii> thorwil: yeah, flickr is not the optimal way of doing this but it was there and people know about it
<thorwil> kwwii: it's just frustrating how close it comes to then fail on the last tiny steps. what messed up thinking to have _either_ advanced search _or_ search in a pool
<thorwil> kwwii: there are 35 images with a CC license that permist commercial use, according to a search in my favorites (now identical to the pool ...)
<kwwii> thorwil: yeah, I even sent them an email asking for features...naturally they said "thanks, we'll add that to the list"
<kwwii> I might need to download them all and check for myself, just to be sure
<mac_v> mat_t: you could ask Travis for the compiz close change ;)
<kwwii> thorwil: am I supposed to see images with that html page?
<mat_t> mac_v: thx, where can I find him?
<mac_v> mat_t: i think he'll be sleeping now ;p , i'll see if i can get the patch done myself , it's a simple one ,
<mac_v> mat_t: but David's comment in the other explicitly says dont change to close... is it just to close the other bug or to not have the animation to fade i wonder
<mac_v> other bug*
<mat_t> mac_v: it was regarding the other bug
<mat_t> mac_v: if you could release the fix, please do! :) Otherwise I can talk to Travis
<mac_v> mat_t: right now , i'm having a look at it ... will inform if i get the patch ready ;)
<mat_t> mac_v: cool!
<kwwii> zniavre: hey, I fixed the problem with the top right corner pixel :)
<zniavre> kwwii,  bonjour / hello
<zniavre> could you share the fix with me ?
<kwwii> hi, sure
<kwwii> essentially, I removed all the variables in the width and heigth
<kwwii> well, not really, but you will see when I send it to you :p
<zniavre> :o)
<thorwil> kwwii: arg, thumbnail links are local, sorry. but the loinks should work
<kwwii> thorwil: cool, thanks...I'll check it out in a bit
<kwwii> thorwil: erm, is that page your pics or all of the CC licensed pics?
<kwwii> I ask because my pic is not amongst them :)
<kwwii> I don't assign any license to my pics on flickr
<kwwii> I guess I could send an email to myself asking if I can use it :D
<thorwil> kwwii: all CC without NC licensed
<thorwil> kwwii: so you are the perfect example why we should ask people about licensing
<kwwii> right, I think I will send an email to everyone in the short-list
<kwwii> now is when I really wish I had 3g or such
<kwwii> going to the airport where I have no internet connection...not even in the 1st class lounge :p
<kwwii> thorwil: funky question, but did you remove any photos from the short-list?
<thorwil> kwwii: i wouldn't know how
<kwwii> thorwil: ok, thanks...just trying to figure this out. I guess it was the author
<darkham> hey people, some hope of something like that http://www.youtube.com/user/madsrosendahl#play/uploads/3/XlCVrtgxVcI in karmic stable?
<darkham> this type of stuff, give many popularity , i don't think it would be bad...
<kwwii> darkham: we will be having an animation but it will be a bit simpler than that
<kwwii> darkham: the artwork should be included shortly
<darkham> kwwii: i've some hope to watch it in daily live cds?
<darkham> :)
<kwwii> darkham: yeah, I am asking now as to when the artwork will be in the distro
<kwwii> it has been done for quite a while actually
<kwwii> I think that the final mockup is on the wiki
<darkham> for what you artwork developers are now workink the most?
<kwwii> lol, on everything
 * kwwii heads out to the airport
<darkham> great...
<darkham> what of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/Boot
<darkham> are on charts?
<darkham> :=)
<mac_v> mat_t: added the patch :)
<mac_v> s/added/attached*
<mat_t> mac_v: great!
<mat_t> mac_v: that must be one of the quickest bug fixes in history :)
<mac_v>  ;p
<darkham> very good ideas in the mockup pages, please team make karmic better than ever!!!
<darkham> i salute you
<mac_v> mat_t: mvo has committed the patch... now thats really a quick fix ;)
<mat_t> mac_v: yeah, well done! ;)
<mrmcq2u> kwwii - is the gdm mockup from canonical going to make it into karmic?
<mac_v> mat_t: lololol...! even the fix is released now !  \o/
<mac_v> mrmcq2u: kwwii is on a plane now ;)
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<mrmcq2u> mac_v - he sure gets the plane allot
<mat_t> mac_v: yes I know :)
 * mat_t didn't realise his own hidden powers
<zniavre> nice usplash
<zniavre> (karmic)
<mrmcq2u> now all thats missing is the gdm theme to match :D
<mac_v> mrmcq2u: to match what?
<mrmcq2u> the new xsplash theme
<mac_v> i must have missed it , let me update ;)
<MDC1> mrmcq2u, mac_v, seems i've missed it too - but the new boot time was amazing!
<mac_v> MDC1: grr... i got stcuk at boot!
<mac_v> stuck
<MDC1> well - me too but after some upgrade or install it was as new again
 * mac_v rebooooooots
<mrmcq2u> still have no idea whether the gdm theme will even change for karmic :(
<zniavre> i hope soon the shock is big
<mac_v> zniavre: shock?
<zniavre> xspalsh > gdm
<mac_v> hmm...
<zniavre> xsplash*
<kwwii> mrmcq2u: yes, it will change for karmic....I worked on it today, almost ready
<mrmcq2u> hurray :D
<mrmcq2u> I have been trying to figure out whether the new gdm in the canonical mockups would make it in to karmic for weeks :D
<mrmcq2u> and just to give you my opinion kwwii - I think all of canonicals proposals with relation to art both gdm and xsplash have been A+ this release
<kwwii> mrmcq2u: yeah, me too and I was the one who was supposed to work on the themeing
<kwwii> we wanted to redo the interface but that will now be left for +1
<kwwii> I have created a new metacity and gtk theme to make it look nicer
<mrmcq2u> will the gdm look like the one on the wiki you proposed
<kwwii> yes, as closely as possible without editing a theme engine
<kwwii> I could probably get a screenshot out tomorrow, once I know how to make the new gdm use the theme ;)
<mrmcq2u> Thats awesome, thanks for the info
<kwwii> anytime :)
<kwwii> _
<zniavre> xnest gdmflexiserver does not work anymore for me
<kwwii> zniavre: right, here either
<kwwii> I do not think the new gdm works with it
<mrmcq2u> will you be able to have the gtk theme specific to the gdm or will it need to be a new default gtk theme?
<kwwii> it is a normal gtk and metacity theme, I just made a different one so that it looks nice
<mrmcq2u> Is the different one going to be the new default for the desktop too or can you have gdm use a seperate gtk theme to the default one for the desktop?
<kwwii> no, this will just be the default for gdm
<mrmcq2u> ah cool
<mrmcq2u> any testing ppa :D lol
<mrmcq2u> worth a try :D
<kwwii> no, but once I know how to set it, I will put it in my ppa
<kwwii> actually, I will put it directly into karmic asap
<kwwii> but because it is so late in the cycle, it will be in my ppa for at least a week before it makes it in the distro
<mrmcq2u> lol, just added your ppa :D
<kwwii> cool
<kwwii> I will add a new human icon theme package tomorrow
<kwwii> which fixes the xdg icons in the places menu
<mrmcq2u> nice
<kwwii> thanks be to god that I installed the alpha...I did not know it was messed up
<zniavre> folder-download ?
<kwwii> and music and documents
<kwwii> they were all named incorrectly
<kwwii> :p
<zniavre> only folder-download were missing here
<kwwii> no, but the other two look slightly different, eh?
<kwwii> personally, I think we should change "download" to "downloads"
<zniavre> in french it's TÃ©lÃ©chargement   (without the s)
<kwwii> right, in the end, I didn't mention it until now. it is pretty late to suggest such changes now
<kwwii> and it is
<kwwii> "download" in the xdg spec
<zniavre> i already fix the name in my own icon theme
<kwwii> ;)
<zniavre> yes that's true
<kwwii> although as co-maintainer of the spec I guess I could change it pretty easily
<zniavre> it looks nice in the side panel of nautilus (bookmarks)
<kwwii> yes, although at first I did not like the idea of using the special folders I have to admit it is a pretty good idea
<kwwii> oh well, time for sleep...bonne nuit
<zniavre> good night
<zniavre> thank you
<kwwii> glad to help
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-09-18
<thorwil> good morning!
<mrmcq2u> morning
<MDC1> morning :)
<MDC1> nice splash
<kwwii> wow...not artwork, but interesting: http://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/Blogs/Off-the-Beat-Bruce-Byfield-s-Blog/How-GNOME-and-KDE-spend-their-money
<TheMuso> kwwii: Ok, so the issue with gdm is that everything related to the theme has to be set with gconf keys.
<TheMuso> However, we cannot use gconf-defaults, because that will set the default for every user.
<TheMuso> So what we have to do, is set gconf keys specific to the gdm user.
<mrmcq2u> why would there need to be a different gdm theme for each user
<mrmcq2u> how would the system know which one to use
<TheMuso> mrmcq2u: Gdm runs as the gdm user. There wouldn't be a different theme for every user of gdm, because the user has not yet logged into their session.
<TheMuso> kwwii wants to have a different gdm theme to what is used on the desktop.
<mrmcq2u> I dont understand the problem
<mrmcq2u> if gdm runs as its own user then shouldnt you be able to change the gtk theme independently of actual users desktop themes
<TheMuso> mrmcq2u: kwwii was asking about how a different theme for gdm compared to the desktop will be possible. I am explaining that since gdm now uses parts of gnome-session, that the theme for gdm is set using the same gconf keys as are used for gnome-session.
<TheMuso> mrmcq2u: Yes you can, but doing that, and doing it in such a way that derivatives can also do it, is tricky.
<mat_t> hey artworkers
<knome> hello mat_t
<TheMuso> kwwii: In any case, settings these keys requires a postinst script for the package that ships the gdm theme. Then we also need to set up a provides/conflicts/replaces mechanism for derivatives like studi oto use.
<mat_t> I've got a question - do you guys know if we have any good wiki page with information about installing Ubuntu using Wubi?
<TheMuso> kwwii: I am happy to spend some time on Monday doing the initial code, because Studio will need the same thing for karmic+1 and beyond.
<mat_t> In particular, with common questions answered
<mat_t> like: what will happen to my files, etc
<mat_t> mac_v, thorwil: ^ ?
<knome> mat_t, wouldn't #ubuntu or #ubuntu-website be better place to ask that? ;)
 * mat_t goes to #ubuntu-website, humbled
 * mat_t returns, as there's nobody there
<mac_v> mat_t: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Wubi
<mac_v> google is a friend ;)
<mac_v> mat_t: also > http://www.wubi-installer.org/faq.php
<knome> mat_t, you didn't even ask on #ubuntu-website, i'm there ;)
<mat_t> knome: If I want to ask mpt, he's there in front of me, if I want to ask you or thorwil, well, you're here... ;)
<knome> O:)
<mat_t> mac_v: thx
<mat_t> mac_v: this FAQ is not great for people who want to know what will happen with their Windows installation
<mat_t> mac_v: it's not really very explicit
<mat_t> But I guess it's the best we have
<mac_v> yeah , mat_t but we could also add the info to our wiki... ;p
<mat_t> ok, so "how to install" will be directly on Ubuntu.com
<mac_v> mat_t: tryin using your powers again today to ping some of the guys from Docu ;)
<mat_t> heh
<mat_t> I have to be careful, mana runs out quickly
<knome> mat_t, you don't have quickly regenerating mana? too bad...
<mat_t> So I think it's more important to let people know what will happen with their current files
<mat_t> and why they should try ubuntu
<mat_t> in the first place :)
<knome> what if i came second?
<knome> ... ;]
<mat_t> knome: you'd get a silver medal
<knome> so can i try ubuntu anyway?
<knome> or can i only try it when i'm in the first place
<mat_t> Ubuntu is only for winners
<knome> hehe
<mat_t> Losers use M$ Win ;)
<knome> what 'bout Mac OS users?
<mat_t> OK, I was joking. They're all good people, some of them just need better information.
<knome> true :)
<mrmcq2u> well Mac OS is still the best solution for creative people.. I can see linux distros catching up soon though
<mrmcq2u> we need jokosher/pitivi etc to mature more
<thorwil> mat_t: isn't what happens with users windows files simply "nothing"?
<mac_v> knome: even bigger looser use OSX ;p [they pay too much for just the brand name]
<knome> and the white plasti
<knome> +c
<thorwil> mrmcq2u: why jokosher if you can have ardour? but a really big hole is the almost complete absence of flash (or comparable) authoring
<thorwil> mat_t: anyway, if specific questions come up, https://launchpad.net/~ago can answer them
<mac_v> mat_t: how does xsplash identify the size of the screen and which size image to use?
<mat_t> mac_v: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/KarmicBootExperienceDesignSpec#Layout%20Rules
<mat_t> thorwil: exactly. Nothing. We should say it somewhere :)
<mac_v> mat_t: that wiki specifies the image sizes to be used... but i'd like to know which size is used in my setup... is it determined by the display resolution ...my display says 1280x800 so the image used would be 1280Ã1024 ?
<mac_v> or 1440Ã900
<mac_v> heh , the throbber looks adorable :)
<kwwii> mac_v: it should be the same resolution as your desktop, I think
<kwwii> aah, ignore me
 * mac_v cant find a 1280x800 image in the splashes :(
<kwwii> I should read back further before responding
<mac_v> ;)
<kwwii> there probably isn't one then
<mac_v> yeah
<kwwii> I think we still need to add some resolutions
<mac_v> \o/
<mac_v> kwwii: 1280x800 is very common in widescreens , why has it been left out ? ;)
<kwwii> mac_v: to be honest, I do not know if it was left out...I haven't been working on this (Yet)
<kwwii> I'll look into it
<mac_v> ;) thanks
<mac_v>  or is it using the 25600x1600
<kwwii> now that would be really bad :p
<mac_v> *2560x1600
<mac_v> yeah
<kwwii> it looks perfect on my thinkpad with 1024x768
 * mac_v sees gradient lines in his acer aspire :(
<kwwii> except for the fact that the throbber starts and stops and starts when loggin in
<kwwii> mac_v: ouch, I was worried about that...the gradients are really hard to scale
<mac_v> i think a little more testing is needed for various hardware ...
<kwwii> definitely
<kwwii> a little more than nothing would be good ;)
<mat_t> mac_v: The artwork should always be position centrally on the screen, using the nearest matching resolution that is either the same size as the screen or larger.
<mat_t> mac_v: for 1280x800 the 1280x1024 asset should be picked, and cropped verically
<mac_v> i read that ... ;p ... but which is closer
<mac_v> oh ok
<mat_t> mac_v: "nearest matching resolution that is either the same size as the screen or larger." You can't be more precise than that :)
 * mat_t updates to finally see the xsplash in action
<mac_v> mat_t: hmm.. cropping doesnt seems to work well here , i get the gradients as lines... :(   the 1280x800 is a very common resolution for widescreens .... you might consider adding another size
<mac_v> seem*
<mat_t> mac_v: cropping, not scaling
<mat_t> the image should never be scaled. If it is, it's a bug
<mac_v> hmm , but something is not doing the proper work... i think its scaling for me
<mac_v> or maybe my screen doesnt handle the resolution or is doing things wrong... meh...
 * mac_v replacing splash... ;p
<kwwii> mac_v: it might very well be that the gradients on your monitor cause banding
<kwwii> it is very common problem
<kwwii> even with enough steps some monitors are too light or too dark and do not display the entire colorspace evenly (anyway)
<mac_v> yeah , i think so too... too bad these gradients dont work well for me :(
<kwwii> if they don't work well for you, I imagine that quite a few others will experience the same thing
<kwwii> either that *or* your monitor is not being detected properly, etc
 * mac_v wishes the splash was done with a more smoother gradient ;)
 * mat_t did not get the new xsplash :(
<mac_v> \o/
<kwwii> I wonder if we could use some dithering to fix these problems...since it is a normal x session that should not be such a problem as it was on the framebuffer
<thorwil> this user deserves a special price: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/Backgrounds?action=diff&rev1=160&rev2=161
<kwwii> wtf?
<mac_v> mat_t: kwwii: could you check this image> http://imagebin.ca/view/De--AB.html , do you see gradient lines in the glow?
<kwwii> sometimes it is a bad idea to let everyone edit the wiki :p
<kwwii> did you revert it, or should I?
<mac_v> thorwil: lmao .! really wtf!
<thorwil> kwwii: did nothing, please revert. note he (?) also attached images to that page
<thorwil> i'm simply not in the mood to fix that
<mac_v> hehe , i think he misunderstood the page :)
<mac_v> kwwii: mat_t: that image i showed was to check if you had gradient lines when viewing as fullscreen :)
<thorwil> mac_v: obviously. this all worked so well that i thought i really nailed it, but there's always someone to get it wrong
<mac_v> hehe ;)
<mac_v> thorwil: at first , i thought he just edited the page , to add his "touch"
<thorwil> SiDi: how about you code us a website with a rigid structure to upload images, asking about license, with automagic thumbnail generation, a commenting system with branches plus revisioning? :)
<SiDi> thorwil: how about i do some maths instead so i dont have 3/20 in the next exam ? :d
<thorwil> SiDi: you want 4/20? ;p
<SiDi> i aim 5
<thorwil> ambitious
<knome> thorwil, isn't that quite a trivial task
<thorwil> knome: i guess it would be rather straightforward for someone who already knows his way round one of the big frameworks
<knome> i don't know about big frameworks. that just sounds a trivial task to write from scratch :)
<Cimi> lucazade, any news? =)
<thorwil> knome: i think framework to not have to implement once again nested comments, account management and tagging
<knome> thorwil, heh
<knome> thorwil, that was what you described earlier ;)
<knome> *+not
<knome> anyway, bbl ->
<thorwil> was all implied ;)
<knome> oh
<knome> i missed some parts of it :P
<knome> lol
<knome> see you ->
<thorwil> cya
<kwwii> mac_v: yes, I see gradients in that pic
<kwwii> banding, I mean
<kwwii> sorry, cooking my son lunch, bbiab
<mac_v> hmm... i get similar banding for the xsplash... :(
<kwwii> we have the worlds slowest wiki somethings
<kwwii> sometimes
<kwwii> the wiki is reverted and the attachments are deleted, thanks for pointing that out, thorwil
<thorwil> kwwii: ty
<lucazade> Cimi, no news yet
<lucazade> i've just enjoyed the new features :)
<mat_t> kwwii: just noticed that "documents" and "music" folders look different to the others in the Places menu
<mat_t> kwwii: seem to have lost the outline
<mat_t> does anyone else have that problem, too?
<kwwii> mat_t: yeah, it is a naming problem which I fixed while in london
<kwwii> downloads is also using the wrong name and therefor doesn't find the right icon
<kwwii> thorwil: btw, you might want to talk to ivanka if you are still interested in making a countdown banner
<thorwil> kwwii: i intend to do something this weekend
<kwwii> cool :)
<mac_v> kwwii: isnt UNR already using the theme you are hoping to do for the gdm?
<mac_v> the menu and the submenus are ,i think , what you are expecting to achieve
<kwwii> mac_v: no, not really...UNR is/was using Dust
<mac_v> kwwii: check out the UNR and the menus ;)
<kwwii> ahhh, you mean the other pics in UNR, not the gtk theme
<kwwii> I made those as well...and yes, it is pretty close to the same
<mac_v> :)
 * mac_v wants that theme 
<mac_v> kwwii: how did you do that? [only theming the menu] ?
<kwwii> well, if you want it, you better start writing a gtk engine for it
<mac_v> argh
<kwwii> you could use two different theme engines in one theme
<mac_v> kwwii: what theme engine does the menu use?
 * mac_v thinks kwwii is holding back for karmic and doing such awesome themes in his lair for karmic+1 \o/
<artir> I think canonical don't have anything related to a new theme yet
<artir> maybe for the next lts or 10.10
<mac_v> artir: yup... no new themes for karmic ;)
<artir> maybe they have mockups but there is nothing official
<artir> or maybe?...
<artir> https://launchpad.net/anjali
<kwwii> mac_v: it only uses Dust as a theme engine afaik...the menu on the left of the screen is just pixmaps put in place
<kwwii> with clutter I think
<mac_v> aw... :(
<mac_v> i like the way the main menu and the submenu are translucent :) ...
 * mac_v pokes kwwii with a pls-make-a-new-similar-gtk-theme-engine stick ;)
<artir> mac_v: what theme is that?
<mac_v> artir: check out UNR's menu,submenu
<artir> ah, the new interface
<mat_t> kwwii: any idea about that ethernet icon? Where did it come from?
<kwwii> mat_t: it is the one that you made (in berlin I think) based on an idea I did
<mat_t> kwwii: hmmm, afaik it was one of the iterations but it was never meant to be part of the human theme
<kwwii> mat_t: it has been in the theme since then, but it was not shown on the panel like that before
<kwwii> we can easily remove it
<kwwii> I just wanted to make sure that you want it removed first ;)
<mat_t> let's remove it :)
<kwwii> mat_t: the question is what we should replace it with
<kwwii> mat_t: I told ivanka and iain that we could all discuss it on monday
<mat_t> for lack of anything better - 2 monitors that we used to have?
<kwwii> yeah
<mat_t> yeah we can discuss it
<kwwii> that would be the easiest
<mat_t> so let's revert it for now and we'll see if we can come up with anything better
<mac_v> kwwii: have a look at the humanity theme icon , i'v done it using connectors , similar to what evolution,firfox use
<mac_v> connectors/or whatever its called ;p
<mac_v> mat_t: too ^ ;)
<kwwii> mac_v: ?
<mac_v> kwwii: oops... for the ethernet icon
<kwwii> ahhh
<kwwii> hrm, looking into it, it seems that asac or someone used this icon on purpose...going to have to change this in the code
<mac_v> kwwii: yeah... asac gave me this list of icons... http://paste.ubuntu.com/267971/ but this sounded weird :(
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<kwwii> mac_v: that is not correct, I think
<kwwii> as I do not have that ugly icon named thusly in the human theme
<thorwil> http://www.mmiworks.net/eng/publications/2009/09/gimp-single-mode.html
<mac_v> yeah , exactly , the one you had done is in the devices and is a different label
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-09-19
<itsbrad212> hey
<itsbrad212> is anybody here?
<itsbrad212> ?\
<mac_v> kwwii: ping! :)
<kwwii> mac_v: hey<
<zniavre> hello  /bonjour
<zniavre> with human icons theme the shared emblems is on bottom on folder
<zniavre> but with my own theme it's on top, i do not understand why
<zniavre> is there a setting somewhere to move this emblem ?
<mac_v> * mat_t has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep") ;p
<mac_v> nice exit ;)
<darkham> if the new splash is it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrQ6aJzHYRs, i know you can do much much much (and again) more.....
<darkham> please daze us all the 29-10
<darkham> :)
 * ckontros waves.
<thorwil> RRAAARG fucking die wiki surge protection!
<ckontros> Oh noes...
<thorwil> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/Backgrounds/Extra_Photo?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=David_background.jpg
<thorwil> ^ is that a picture of a old grey wooden house/mill at a sea?
<ckontros> Yes sir
<thorwil> ty
<ckontros> It's BIG. Shoulda been resized w/preview or something.
<thorwil> sure. but it is good we have it in LARGE :)
<ckontros> Sure sure.
<thorwil> gotta love what Hydrogen left in my terminal: (E) PatternEditorInstrumentList	dropEvent move instrument:Cowbell
<ckontros> hahahahahah Awesome. :)
<mrmcq2u> kwwii there seems to be someone on ubuntu forums already creating a gtk theme to fit in with xsplash
<kwwii> mrmcq2u: w00t, link?
<kwwii> mrmcq2u: although I am pretty clost to finished with my version
<kwwii> ...hehe, maybe theirs is better :D
<mrmcq2u> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1268950&page=7
<mrmcq2u> near the end
<kwwii> good to see that the forums are as crazy as ever ;)
<mrmcq2u> I know :D
<kwwii> well, I do like the top (dark) part but it does not fit with the current design
<kwwii> everything is dark in the new gdm
<mrmcq2u> think of it this way, the people complaining there are the same people who complained on the art mailing list which was not that many compared to the entire community
<kwwii>  ;)
<kwwii> right
<mrmcq2u> oooooh
<kwwii> I understand the forum and don't take anything said there personally
<mrmcq2u> can I try it out
<mrmcq2u> secretly :D
<kwwii> although they can be somewhat personal in their comments at times
<mrmcq2u> lolz
<SiDi> kwwii: some people in the forums dont notice devs ever hear about what they say
<kwwii> but hey, it is a forum...we ask people to say whatever they want there
<SiDi> so they just crystalize all their disappointment or frustation on the devs
<mrmcq2u> kwwii - I got a warning on the forums for freaking out at people complaining about developers
<kwwii> and to be honest, only ubuntu fans post things there...it is not a forum for newbies
<kwwii> lol
<SiDi> and some have a bad wording too. I did myself hurt other devs due to bad wording in the past
<kwwii> SiDi: trust me, I understand
<knome> hurting is easy
<kwwii> I have had people tell me that everything I do is shit, etc
<kwwii> no worries, it is somewhat too seperated from reality that I really listen to what they say :D
<mrmcq2u> like most forums
<knome> kwwii, even that is better than doing things wonderfully (or so most of the people say) but get ignored by the person who decides on things :P
<kwwii> I wanted to make a screenshot of the new gdm
<kwwii> but the new themeing cannot even be applied to gdm
<kwwii> :p
<SiDi> hey btw, will there be a new metacity / gtk theme in karmic for gnome ?
<kwwii> TheMuso (luke) is going to hack gdm to allow it to accept a gtk and metacity theme from a gconf key
<SiDi> (why not set a theme for the 'gdm' user ? doesnt it work ?)
<kwwii> knome: true, to some extent
<mrmcq2u> I think forums should be replaced with a more social network approach with aggregation of blog posts instead of forum threads, that way the things people say would be more attached to themselves as an individual so they would be less likely to act like a jerk
<kwwii> SiDi: no, it only takes the gnome-session default settings currently
<kwwii> mrmcq2u: probably true
<dashua> I finally got a login sound on GDM
<kwwii> ouch, turn it off
<kwwii> I get it *really* loud every morning
<dashua> Ha yeah
<kwwii> because I forget to turn my sound down the night before
<kwwii> I bet my neighbors think that is the sound of my alarm
<SiDi> lol
<mrmcq2u> kwwii I hate when that happens in the college library
<kwwii> boom-ba-doompa--doompa-da
<kwwii> lol
<mrmcq2u> the ubuntu startup sound is fairly daunting when I forget to switch it off and everyone looks at me :D
<kwwii> you should see my sound setup on this machine ;)
<SiDi> i hate hearing windows login or microsoft live messenger sounds in the library
<SiDi> that freaks me out
<kwwii> we had a guy who wanted to work on it
<kwwii> he was amazing
<kwwii> a real proffesional
<mrmcq2u> that was the last release right?
<knome> heh
<kwwii> but we pissed that away in the changing of leads, bosses, teams, etc
<knome> >__<
<knome> of course..
<kwwii> let me find a link...he did some amazing shit
<knome> "amazing shit"
<knome> hmm
<knome> interesting concept
<mrmcq2u> oooh link :D
<kwwii> one day I got an email from him saying he wanted to make a new sound theme for ubuntu
<mrmcq2u> why dont you use it?
<mrmcq2u> was it the one that mark said sounded too much like windows?
<kwwii> http://diegostocco.com/
<kwwii> http://www.vimeo.com/user647380
<kwwii> no, that was a different one
<knome> heh
<kwwii> the first stuff (and only stuff in the end) he sent was pretty wild, very different
<kwwii> he did the stapler music for ubuntu originally
<mrmcq2u> is there a direct link to the music?
<kwwii> but it was considered too dark
<mrmcq2u> or is the music in the intro of his site the one?
<kwwii> no, not to the theme because it never was anything more than an email in my inbox
<kwwii> http://www.vimeo.com/5583313 for instance...haven't heard that one yet
<mrmcq2u> so his work will not be in a future version?
<kwwii> boah, the tree stuff is killer
<kwwii> I wish
<kwwii> but I bet he is upset that we blew him off
<knome> kwwii, too bad to hear that.
<kwwii> you should see the things he has done...it is amazing
<kwwii> no doubt
<knome> there is a lot wrong in the ubuntu byrocracy, definitely.
<mrmcq2u> If you apologize and explain what the issues were before I am sure he would understand
<mrmcq2u> would there be anything holding his contribution back now?
<kwwii> the burning piano stuff is cool too
<kwwii> mrmcq2u: yeah, maybe I should send him an email
<knome> kwwii, have to check those once i get home ;)
<kwwii> or flowers :p
<knome> kwwii, and chocolate
<knome> kwwii, and a bottle of whiskey
<knome> kwwii, (me too)
<kwwii> good idea :p
<kwwii> not you though :D
<knome> BAH!
<mrmcq2u> lol
<mrmcq2u> kwwii - so the new gtk theme you are working on is not working with gdm yet?
<kwwii> I just bought a box of nifty absolut bottles in studded leather...cost too much to send it though
<kwwii> mrmcq2u: no other theme works with gdm currently
<kwwii> it can do them, but it doesn't have a mechanism to set it
<kwwii> gdm is now a normal x-session
<kwwii> and the panel at the bottom is a normal panel
<kwwii> we had plans to change the interface but there is no dev/tem left to do it
<mrmcq2u> Well I presume the plans to change the interface your are referring to is that clutter mockup macslow has?
<mrmcq2u> which requires work to be done to the greeter right
 * mrmcq2u bookmarked the diegostocco site as there is some high quality stuff on it
<kwwii> mrmcq2u: no, there are other mockups which we intended to make reality
<kwwii> I think they are on the wiki
<mrmcq2u> ah
<sanderqd> hey, i was wondering whether there are still plans for client-side window decoration in ubuntu. saw a gtk+ branch implementing it, and heard some months ago it might be in 9.10
<mrmcq2u> but it doesnt support transparency and whatnot
<kwwii> we decided not to turn compiz on at that point, no matter what
<kwwii> I think because it would take longer to load
<mrmcq2u> I think client side windows are already in aren't they
<kwwii> but theoretically at least, you could do transparency in gdm if you wanted to and had the right card/driver
<mrmcq2u> kwii - mutter might be better in karmic+1
<mrmcq2u> kwii - kwwii
<kwwii> ahhh, read back further!
<kwwii> we started work on that, both client side decorations and client side window
<kwwii> that is two different things
<mrmcq2u> yeah, cimi did some good work on that end
<kwwii> mrmcq2u: hopefully ;)
<kwwii> we do have code for it all, but we are not using any of it
<kwwii> in karmic
<kwwii> we did the one, and upstream did the other
<mrmcq2u> hmmm.. is it part of gtk now or still a hack
<sanderqd> you did the csd? i think csw are merged into gtk+ right now
<mrmcq2u> I think cdw are in
<mrmcq2u> cdw - csw
<mrmcq2u> they got rid of the broken nvidia artifacts I had on windows :D
<mrmcq2u> so my broken nvidia card can be used on one of my machines :D
<mrmcq2u> ubuntu 1 windows 0
<mrmcq2u> lol
<kwwii> sanderqd: we started it, but had some serious problems with firefox in the testing
<kwwii> and then other things came up which we had to work on
<sanderqd> ah, right, and firefox would probably not be the only app facing issues
<kwwii> cody russell really is a genious :)
<kwwii> yeah, I think OOo was another one
<kwwii> gnome apps worked fine
<mrmcq2u> ew OOo :D
<mrmcq2u> I hate its ui
<kwwii> but then there was the question of what to do with kde apps, etc
<sanderqd> still it would be cool to have for at least some apps (maybe by adding a separate compiler flag), and have the rest use metacity's decoration
<kwwii> sanderqd: that is exactly what I said (from the beginning on, because I knew there would be problems with some apps)
<kwwii> I suggested doing all the multimedia apps that way
<mrmcq2u> shouldnt the few apps that have problems patch themselves
<kwwii> as a group, they would be the best ones to implement this on first
<kwwii> mrmcq2u: lol, that would be the ideal, yes....but not reality
<kwwii> firefox doesn't change because ubuntu wants to do something new
<mrmcq2u> so firefox should hold it back?
<mrmcq2u> hmmmm .. tricky
<mrmcq2u> so mozilla dont have a good relationship upstream
<mrmcq2u> Im sure csw/csd will be in other distros other than ubuntu
<kwwii> mozilla doesn't really care about linux in general
<sanderqd> kwwii: so csd is currently still under consideration? i like the idea a lot, it works out really well on mac and in google chrome
<kwwii> we are not large enough, user-base-wise to make a difference
<kwwii> the fact that they botched the gtk implementation should explain that
<mrmcq2u> isnt moblin using csw + csd
<kwwii> sanderqd: because it is shortly before beta, I would say that for karmic it is dead but we will be working on +1 in a few weeks
<sanderqd> great :-)
<SiDi_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork/Karmic
<SiDi_> thoughts ? :P
<ckontros> Albatross reminds me of Studio's layout. ;)
<kwwii> nice
<kwwii> a step up for xubuntu
<kwwii> I agree with ckontros though being more like something beautifull can only be a good thing ;)
<SiDi_> :)
<kwwii> night all
<kwwii> back to london tomorrow...won't be back online until monday morning
<kwwii> have fun, be good, play well with each other
<knome> kwwii, i'm not going to play with these guys! they suck!
<knome> ;)
<kwwii> :p
<knome> hehe, good night :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-09-20
<mrmcq2u> "knome: kwwii, i'm not going to play with these guys! they suck!" <- play with yourself then :D
<knome> mrmcq2u, hey, this is a family-friendly channel! ;)
<mrmcq2u> lol
<zniavre> :o)
<mac_v> kwwii: the login and system sounds can now be assigned a separate volume level : Sound Prefs > Alert Volume , that controls the login/logout sounds as well ;)
<mac_v> mrmcq2u: the login and system sounds can now be assigned a separate volume level : Sound Prefs > Alert Volume , that controls the login/logout sounds as well ;)
<mac_v> oh! kwwii is not going to be online :(
<mrmcq2u> thanks for the info
<zniavre> helllo bonjour
<zniavre> how do i find the name of those icons please >http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/3156/capturecj.png
<zniavre> i always take human as base but they are missing too
<zniavre> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzU0NQ
<SiDi> zniavre: check in rb's source code
<zniavre> ok thank you i did not think about that
<mrmcq2u> gah, dri2 is disabled by default in karmic :(
<ckontros> zniavre: How are you putting the menu in the panel like that?
<zniavre_> ckontros,  gnome globalmenu wait a sec i will find the link
<zniavre_> http://code.google.com/p/gnome2-globalmenu/wiki/InstallingonUbuntu
<ckontros> merci
<ckontros> zniavre: merci beaucoup! This actually gives me a little more space to work with in Inkscape. (where i want every bit of space i can get)
<zniavre_> ckontros,  nice glad to help
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<mrmcq2u> is there an issue with the ati driver as of late with dri2?
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-09-20
<vish> http://thorwil.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/folder_challenge_01.png !!!!!!!!
<vish> considerably better than what breathe has right now ;p
<thorwil> vish: you think so? both are terrible in my eyes now
<vish> thorwil: well , i said better.. dint say it was good ;p
<thorwil> folder icons are dumb anyway, would much prefer to have something along the lines of http://thorwil.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/infolders_01.png
<vish> thorwil: hmm , not /like/ those , but i get the point..   make *folders* an abstract concept
<vish> holy! there are 1050+ members subscribed to the mailing list!
<darkmatter> just remove folders entirely instead of trying to abstract broken junk
<vish> thorwil: looks like the list is quite rotten ;p
<vish> we have a lot of flies \o/
<thorwil> darkmatter: doesn't matter much for that concept if it represents folders are any kind of grouping
<vish> hehe! what is lapo doing there !
<thorwil> vish: what did you say how many subscribers the list has?
<vish> thorwil: 1050+
<thorwil> vish: i think we will reach the point where we must avoid running around in circles, soon now
<thorwil> vish: so i just send a "what would you like to work on" mail. trying saleel's idea is better than wondering if it would work ... :)
<vish> thorwil: well.. lets see.. how it goes..
<vish> hmm , are we thrusting too much at the same time!
<vish> doctormo: why are you reluctant to make the dA group part of the artwork team?
<vish> doctormo: you did push for having free culture showcase being merged into the dA group right?
<doctormo> Of course
<doctormo> But we haven't talked much about the dA group and how its run. Only about using deviantArt as a technical base.
<vish> doctormo: ah the technicalities k..
<doctormo> I have no problem with the dA group being linked in as part of the greater art team, but dA is a poor collaboration platform IMO.
<vish> doctormo: yeah , but how do we get the cchost site to be more permanant?
<vish> i can get coders to work on setting up a site though.. we need the server :)
<doctormo> vish: It has a server, unless pleia2 objects but I don't think she will.
<doctormo> vish: I'm actually sorting out the codebase now so people can work on fixes for the cchost site.
<thorwil> if i only knew how to discourage those useless single sentence messages (without that tuning into a meta-discussion, again)
<thorwil> well, at least there's enthusiasm :)
<vish> hehe!
<vish> one thing I'm not very crazy about it the art-*owl* name..
<vish> it doesnt sound very official ;)
<thorwil> currently it isn't
<thorwil> but something non-obvious can add some charm, in any case
<doctormo> vish: The owl site is the place for learning materials, the dns can be changed.
<doctormo> vish:  for the art site
<doctormo> vish: I'd like to see more activity and maybe some fixes though, much more important than dns name.
<vish> yep, very true.
<vish> but i'm just concerned a bit now , since we are just jumping with _no_ organization in place :s
<vish> but lets see at the end of the week how things are.. we are only at day 2 ;)
<thorwil> vish: sure, but you can't have it all at once. i mean, both activity and organization? outrageous!
<thorwil> i guess a hold-your-horses message might do more harm than good
<vish> yea.. i dint mean hold your horses..
<vish> but if there is no organization , we might just fizz out..
<vish> so, i think someone needs to keep that in mind as well
<thorwil> vish: i'm not at all willing to play a team leader solo ...
<vish> thorwil: well , who crowned you king of the jungle ?   ;p
<vish> thorwil: its nice to see that people are trying to be pro-active atleast :)
<thorwil> vish: nobody did. but who keeps referencing me and who used to ask me for feedback many times? ;)
<thorwil> vish: and "someone" is a warning sign, if it appears in talk regarding leadership and responsibility ;)
<vish> thorwil: must be an idiot! why would someone ask *you* for feedback! ;)
<thorwil> lol, yeah
 * thorwil -> dinner
<doctormo> vish: It's not no organisation, it's emergent and it's simple, but it's not missing.
<vish> yea.. i think I'm going to go ahead and add Xubuntu and Edubuntu to the main wiki
<doctormo> thorwil: heh, we could have an art-council quango
<vish> spoke to highvoltage too , he wants help with edubuntu as well
<thorwil> back
<vish> thorwil: lol! a few members unsubscribed since yesterday ;p
<thorwil> *shrug*
<vish> when i saw it first it was 1058 , now its 1054
<thorwil> 3 down from what i saw
<vish> thorwil: maybe setting up a short wiki of why using wiki is bad? :p
<thorwil> heh
<vish> rather than having to explain to everyone every time.. would be much easier?
<thorwil> vish: we have to forgive j_baer, for he must have edited the wiki so much, he doesn't realize how hard it is, anymore ;)
<vish> thorwil: lol! i must have mentioned that too! "a huge problem is trivial edits" ;p
<thorwil> vish: i just send a mail also linking to that design-hub post, before i got yours ...
<vish> haha! thorwil must be silly minds think alike too! ;p
<thorwil> heh
<thorwil> vish: now how to best answer Kofi?
<vish> thorwil: i suggest we wait a bit and see all the fishes that bite :)
<vish> its not that if we have to answer within a couple of days and everything gets done..
<vish> right now , i'm mainly counting how many people even raise their hands :)
<thorwil> hmm, right
<thorwil> maybe i should check that out, sometime: http://github.com/rclements/Fedora-Design-Collab
<vish> Kofi done has quite some interesting work
<thorwil> mailed highvoltage, encouraging him to advertise for edubuntu a bit, maybe come up with a briefing for a wallpaper
<rrrmanion> hello
<vish> rrrmanion: hi
<rrrmanion> i want to know how i can apply to contribute towards ubuntu? i want to be involved in the reation of some wallpapers.
<vish> rrrmanion: sure, any particular derivate in mind? xubuntu or edubuntu?
<rrrmanion> no, i am just happy to help
<vish> rrrmanion: awesome! hang tight , we are just beginning to see some voices
<vish> rrrmanion: in a few days lets get the main teams involved too , and have a theme/direction to work on for the wallppaer
<vish> rrrmanion: did you see the meerkat request on the mailing list?
<rrrmanion> no, only just subscribed,
<vish> rrrmanion: ah , no probs. this is the mail I was referring to: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2010-September/012294.html
<rrrmanion> i mainly wish to base my contributions on photos if that's ok?
<vish> rrrmanion: well , are the photos from your collection?
<thorwil> rrrmanion: sure (as long as it are your photos, or ones with permissive licenses)
<thorwil> rrrmanion: do you know about http://www.flickr.com/groups/ubuntu-artwork/ ?
<thorwil> rrrmanion: for each release cycle, a few images from that pool are selected, like it happened here: http://design.canonical.com/2010/08/this-week-in-design-27-august-2010/
<rrrmanion> no, not aware of that, will take a look in a moment, will take a look in a moment, all the photos i'd like to use are my own
<thorwil> though this flickr thing is pretty much independent of what we are trying to organize on the list, currently
<rrrmanion> ok, that sounds good though, i thought i might do a series of photos from the UK, for uk users, obviously all landscapes, what do you think
<vish> rrrmanion: of specific famous buildings? or something more abstract?
<vish> or places
<rrrmanion> places, for example i already have some of the famous white cliffs of dover, but buidings could be done too
<thorwil> rrrmanion: do/try whatever seems fun and worthwhile. though if you specifically have users from the uk in mind, you should perhaps contact LoCos ...  i mean, don't rely on people finding your work in that huge pool ... unless it will be outstanding ;)
<rrrmanion> "LoCos"?
<vish> rrrmanion: the issue with choosing a popular place would mean very specific to that locale.. so something like that would/might be more appropriate for the local UK team posters
<thorwil> rrrmanion: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeams
<rrrmanion> thanks
<thorwil> np
<rrrmanion> just waiting for a reply now, seems a bit slower for responses than this channel.
<thorwil> rrrmanion: response time can easily vary between seconds and hours in one and the same channel
<thorwil> good night!
<rrrmanion> night people
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-09-21
<josh> hi
<dumbstupidhuman> test
<vish> thorwil: haha! the ML seems to be loosing more , another 4 down ;p
<vish> thorwil: do you keep your old mails? or do you delete them periodically?
<thorwil> vish: people who wouldn't do anything anyway unsubscribing is hardly an issue
<vish> thorwil: nah , not an issue , but atleast we see an activity from them ;)
<thorwil> vish: i keep some emails i deem important, where i think i will look at them again at some point. i delete everything else
<thorwil> easy decision for list mail, as it's archived, anyway
<vish> thorwil: if you have mails from the wiki subscription it would be neat! ;)  i had created a humanity wiki setup, but i deleted it.. would you have that?
<thorwil> vish: no
<vish> bah :(
<thorwil> vish: what do you mean with wiki setup?
<vish> thorwil: err! it should have been setup a wiki! :)
<vish> thorwil: it was the humanity guidelines
<thorwil> vish: and you don't recall the wiki link to roll it back?
<vish> oh! we can do that?
 * vish thinks harder
<thorwil> vish: a deleted page looks like a non-existing page, but you can access the history via the Info link, if i recall correctly
<vish> now , i need to remember the link :D
<vish> thorwil: whats ruby on rails?
<vish> linky?
<thorwil> 0.o
<thorwil> vish: http://rubyonrails.org/
<vish> thorwil: yea, i'v seen you mentioning a couple of times , but never took interest in finding what it is ;p
<thorwil> vish: it's a web-development framework, using ruby as language
<vish> thorwil: how will it help in design hub?
<thorwil> vish: i mentioned it a couple of times? strange as i find pylons, lift, seaside and perhaps a few others more interesting
<thorwil> vish: design hub is implemented on top of it
<vish> hmm..
<vish> thorwil: yeah, you talk a lot! ;p
<thorwil> heh
<vish> thorwil: now imagine how it is when troy talk to me :p
<thorwil> i hope my words to productivity ratio is still bearable ;p
<vish> talks*
<vish> thorwil: i mean in the sense, about a lot of stuff..
<thorwil> vish: interesting choice of words. he talks to you, not you talk with him
<thorwil> i replied to beyecixramd off-list, regarding email-etiquette. can't endure another top vs bottom posting "discussion"
<vish> thorwil: i think we should hold off on those top posting problems for a bit
<thorwil> vish: that's what i'm saying. note he asked to be informed about such matters
<vish> thorwil: its annoying for me too ;)
 * vish wonders . if maybe we slow down the pace of adding a lot of suggestions! ;)
<vish> thorwil: not all LoCo want material , some of them have their regular artists , so ..
<thorwil> vish: better have people contact locos and see, then not to
<vish> lets try one new idea a day .. something more paced.. if we rush too much it just looks too confusing.. :)
<vish> thorwil: well, not many are as patient as you.. ;)   you dont bother if the team takes your idea or not.. but if we are pushing this as a TODO , it needs to be a TODO....
<thorwil> vish: just send mail pointing to wallpaper guidelines/templates, as that is supporting material. guess i'm done now, anyway
<vish> thorwil: done? we dont have any more work!!! :(
<thorwil> vish: TODO? it's a suggestion. people need to manage their own TODOs
<thorwil> vish: i meant done with sending mail that is not a response. for today
 * thorwil -> lunch
<vish> ..well, they dont know it.. its sounds like a TODO
<thorwil> vish: how? i used phrases like "For those interested in", "Consider to"
<vish> thorwil: yea, it sounds like an available TODO, for those interested to work on
<thorwil> heh
<thorwil> wonder how long it takes until someone asks what i will do :}
<vish>  lol!
<vish> thorwil: i think our top priority should be in getting a design hub
<vish> and being everything in one place
<vish> right now, its too spreadout to be be effective..
<vish> and we should encourage conversation about the work, so that its not just do and submit it somewhere..
<thorwil> vish: a real everything in one place solution is too expensive
<thorwil> a documentation on the wiki, discussion on the list and artwork on some site approach shouldn't hurt too much
<vish> thorwil: oh i meant that for all "artwork on some site" part..
<thorwil> vish: we might be worrying about fewer than 10 who will ever get active, with only the tiniest fraction with the skill and endurance to make it worthwhile
<vish> thorwil: well , my best guess is only around 50 might even be remotely interested in doing work..
<vish> getting those 50 to do is the tough part ;p
<thorwil> vish: then the question is, if http://art.ubuntu-owl.org/ is sufficient, if there are features missing that ar trivial enough to add them
<vish> thorwil: i think doctormo is willing to expand it , depending on the participation
<thorwil> vish: or if design-hub is a better platform. but having one actual instance vs just a git-repo ...
<vish> thorwil: pleia is currently hosting i believe , maybe we can move it to some official server, if it gets a whole lot bigger
<vish> thorwil: what needs to be easy is>
<vish> 1: easier for people to request
<vish> 2: easier for people to submit
<vish> 3: easier for people to review
<vish> 4: easier for people to download!
<vish> wiki , etc.. can be just a documentation resource..
<vish> that we can use for the other pieces too..
<thorwil> oh, it's manual registration on http://art.ubuntu-owl.org
<doctormo> vish, thorwil: Should be able to do requests, not sure about surfactant.
<thorwil> doctormo: surfactant?
<doctormo> sufficient
<thorwil> ah, so it's not about the surface tension of liquids. phew :)
<doctormo> thorwil: This is why we need a more intelligent spell checker, I want something I can hover over any word and get 5 synonyms.
<doctormo> thorwil: I think cchost would server our needs and would keep us using the same tools as debian. We have another option of moving towards the new code used by openclipart.org which may be useful, but it may be too custom for our needs. But they do support everything we need to do.
<doctormo> I'd be interested in a report on design hub.
<thorwil> the first thing i miss on a page like http://www.debianart.org/cchost/?ccm=/media/tags/logo is thumbnails
<thorwil> and scale to fill is not so clever: http://www.debianart.org/cchost/?ccm=/media/files/dejan034/958
<doctormo> thorwil: They're using an old version of ccHost, but I take your point. I put in thumbnail generation of svgs into art.ubuntu-owl, pngs should be easier.
<doctormo> http://art.ubuntu-owl.org/people/sealv <- that's the generated thumbnail
<doctormo> Although that page needs attention to fix issues.
<doctormo> It's kinda funny because cchost has everything for thumbnails built in, it just fell over on svg detection and a few html bits to enable their view.
<vish>  Hey, tell your admin...
<vish> ...to setup a 'welcome new users' page
<vish> doctormo: ^^ :D
<doctormo> vish: My admin? You mean you? :-D
<vish> doctormo:  art.ubuntu-owl.org admin ;)
<doctormo> vish: Yes, I'm waiting for you to join so I can admin you up.
<vish> oh ok. :)
 * vish just joined..
<doctormo> vish: You should be an admin now
<vish> doctormo: \o/ thanks.. ;)
<thorwil> doctormo: i created an account on art.ubuntu-owl.org (or tried to) a while ago and have been waiting for moderator action ;)
<doctormo> thorwil: What kind of moderator action do you need?
<thorwil> doctormo: i don't recall the exact message, but it implied that a human will have to activate the account
<thorwil> i got no email message
<doctormo> thorwil: Perhaps I don't know how to use the system yet, but I've not seen any messages or any user lists.
<thorwil> doctormo: hmm, then just let me try again and we'll see
<thorwil> "That username is already in use or is reserved by the system." (thorwil). so something did happen. but i have no password
<thorwil> trying the "forgot password" feature
<doctormo> thorwil: It's hard because the admin interface doesn't have any user listing. So i can't actually see who has registed or manage users. :-/
<doctormo> Ah found you, and got admin links from your user, bit of a hard round about way though
<thorwil> oh, how spartan
<doctormo> thorwil: Although it does have good logs, it shows when you registed and when I updated your password for you.
<thorwil> ok, logged in now
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-09-22
<krabador> do you think maverick may change something in artwork, from today's build?
<doctormo> krabador: It's unlikely
<thorwil> vish: heh, look who commented here: http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2010/09/19/ubuntu-artwork-crisis/#comment-3408
<thorwil> makes me recall my april fool's mail
<vish> thorwil: ha nice!
<vish> thorwil: what mail?
<thorwil> vish: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2009-April/009615.html
<vish> ah!
<vish> thorwil: from what i read, mairin *really* hates mark
<thorwil> oh.
<vish> thorwil: i think more so after the unity vs shell thingy..
<thorwil> vish: as much as one might disagree on a design, strategic or technical standpoint, such things shouldn't be taken personally
<vish> yep
<thorwil> of course hearsay is no basis to know if she actually does ...
<vish> thorwil: well , she went out-n-out blasting marks comments
<vish> on some blog..
<vish> it was more nasty and kinda odd seeing those comments from mairin
<vish> thorwil: i'm wonder if that comment was really an invite thinking you dint know about Fedora process or a stab..
<thorwil> vish: i see it as a reminder. and a stab :)
<thorwil> dinner time, bbl
<vish> ;)
<thorwil> hmm i guess http://pickpic.parcodiyellowstone.it/ does not not use a vcs, design-hub is intended to use git
<thorwil> our natural choice would be bzr, but relying on gitorious shouldn't hurt
<thorwil> vish: do you think the xubuntu and edubuntu people have a good enough idea of what a briefing should look like?
<vish> thorwil: well , thats a secondary issue .. but we should encourage them to think about a pov too :)
<vish> â¦
<vish> thorwil: IMO, it would be nice if they are involved in the process as well ;)
<thorwil> vish: nice? a must, almost
<thorwil> vish: one mail from a representative of each project, with their thoughts on the matter so far would be a good start
<vish> thorwil: yep.. but saleel's mail started off without any starting point, so twas just a reminder
<vish> thorwil: charlie is for xubuntu
<vish> he already replied..
<lightgraphite> hi i'm new in irc chat, i'm daniel planas(if anyone knows me) www.lighgraphite.com
<lightgraphite> i'm doing somthink like that: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ayatana/Windicators/DanielsWindicators
<lightgraphite> A few days ago I see much movement in the mailing lists, is going with the theme: What would you like to work on?
<lightgraphite> can someone tell me?
<thorwil> lightgraphite: welcome. how could we not know who daniel planas is? ;)
<thorwil> lightgraphite: tell you what exactly?
<lightgraphite> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2010-September/012262.html
<lightgraphite> this is the thread
<lightgraphite> I have not watched mailing lists lately and I'm not very good at English
<lightgraphite> but I have the feeling that something important is being discussed
<lightgraphite> artwork community seems to want to take more strength and go beyond the wiki is not it?
<thorwil> lightgraphite: the idea was to see how many people are on the list that are actually interested in getting some work done
<thorwil> lightgraphite: yes
<lightgraphite> however, it seems as if the contributions of the community artists were never included in the distribution.
<lightgraphite> which could be done?
<thorwil> lightgraphite: well, there's the community-themes package
<thorwil> lightgraphite: and we could do a wallpaper package, perhaps
<lightgraphite> I always thought it was keeping  crux and industrial themes for example, no one uses.! But modern themes as elementary or equinox everyone downloaded, so why not keep a number of good art themes? not much difficulty
<thorwil> lightgraphite: for xubuntu and edubuntu, we could even do default artwork
<lightgraphite> the artwork-comunity could be keep
<thorwil> lightgraphite: sure, collecting and packaging a few selected themes shouldn't be too hard. it's just somebody has to actually do it
<lightgraphite> could open a new topic in the mailing lists and make a collection of 3 or 4 themes that were included on ubuntu with the official themes and replace the old ones.
<lightgraphite> the community could give his vote and so everybody's happy.
<thorwil> vish: what do you think of that? ^
<thorwil> i have to run, good night!
 * vish reads..
<vish> hi dani!
<lightgraphite> hi
<lightgraphite> ;)
<lightgraphite> Vish you have read my conversation with thorwil, you do you think?
<vish> just reading it now..
<lightgraphite> good night thorwil
<vish> lightgraphite: yes, thats the plan.. we want people to be more active on the mailing list , more chat/discussion about art.. the community has been too silent for too long
<vish> lightgraphite: did you see my latest reply to the list?
<vish> about equinox and newer themes?
<lightgraphite> no, you can post me a link?
<vish> lightgraphite: are you subscribed to the list?
<vish> this is the mail i'm referring to : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2010-September/012330.html
<vish> equinox uses its own engine , if we are to package such themes then we need to get the engines into Ubuntu as well
<vish> otherwise they wont work
<lightgraphite> ok
<lightgraphite> add new engines also means less space is to need consider
<lightgraphite> it's true
<vish> lightgraphite: i would suggest you subscribe to the mailing list too, and reply that you want to take part in artwork.. :)
<lightgraphite> but even if not add new engines have many themes to be included right before the old gnome themes
<lightgraphite> ok? i'm subsribe now
<vish> we need people to say that they are interested in doing work â¦ it would be nice to know there are active people on the list ;)
<dylan-m> Okay, I need ideas: what's a good fake name for the user in screenshots for the installer slideshow? :) (I'm terrible at both remembering and inventing names)
<vish> lightgraphite: dont worry about your english though.. I do understand most of what you are saying, your english is good :)
<lightgraphite> thanks xD i'm studying now
<vish>  well, well , look who is here! if it aint dylan-m himself ;)
<dylan-m> hello!
<vish> dylan-m: what installer screenshot?
<lightgraphite> i'think de user name could be: user
<lightgraphite> Simple and recognizable
<dylan-m> all of them! The 8 or so screenshots we have in Maverick's installer slideshow. I'm hoping to avoid that all-too-common situation where we have a generic username and pictures where nothing is happening
<vish> dylan-m: oh you mean the top right username?
<dylan-m> Yep, that one.
<dylan-m> The current stuff (swiped from the web site) does the latter part quite well, but the username (which we see in a few places) is âubuntuâ, which strikes me as odd.
<vish> yea
<vish> dylan-m: one way we could do is look for inspiring names.. related to computing.. ex: "ada"
<vish> thats too short though ;p
<lightgraphite> john? lol, i think the better solution could be: user name
<dylan-m> I do like that line of thought. Nice idea :)
<lightgraphite> because everyone know what is written there
<vish> lightgraphite: yea, but that becomes impersonal.. having/using a real name makes the screenshots feel like it was taken from a real user
<lightgraphite> mmm
<lightgraphite> then we must use a name widely used international
<lightgraphite> for example, michael? i dont now which are the most common names
<vish> dylan-m: googling lead to : http://shibuvarkala.blogspot.com/2009/08/famous-personalities-of-computer.html
<vish> dylan-m: "Claude"  ?
<vish> maybe we could look for more open-sourcy...
<lightgraphite> richard stallman
<vish> dylan-m: or " doctormo "  ;)
<doctormo> ?
<vish> doctormo: just naming a famous person in ope source ;p
<vish> open*
<vish> doctormo:  <dylan-m> Okay, I need ideas: what's a good fake name for the user in screenshots for the installer slideshow? :) (I'm terrible at both remembering and inventing names)
<vish> doctormo: i suggested : one way we could do is look for inspiring names.. related to computing.. ex: "ada" â¦ any suggestions?
<doctormo> vish: Alan Turing, certainly. He needs more bumb.
<vish> dylan-m: ^
<lightgraphite> We could have lots of fun with this, perhaps SteveJ, for people who are fixed, it will be fun.
<dylan-m> That would work. Alan is longer than three letters :)
 * dylan-m wonders if this industry could survive another person named Steve
<vish> lol!
<dylan-m> Sorry, I timed out there. The wifi in this building has gone completely downhill :(
<dylan-m> Err, then the kernel died :/
<dylan-m> I think I'll go with Alan. It's a solid name and it looks pretty with the new font.
<dylan-m> Thanks for the suggestions!
 * darkmatter throws a hefty blunt object at vish
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-09-23
<thorwil> good morning!
<thorwil> hi dumbstupidhuman
<vish> darkmatter: http://mrdoob.com/projects/chromeexperiments/google_gravity/ ;)
<zniavre> funny
<vish> yea interesting idea..
<vish> no one tell thorwil! ;)
<thorwil> vish: hah! and now i have to ask what it is, right?
<vish> thorwil: heh! now that you are /so/ enthusiastic .. nothing that big actually ;p
<vish>  http://mrdoob.com/projects/chromeexperiments/google_gravity/
<thorwil> heh, cute
<thorwil> vish: you know me, i always surprise and blast people over with outmost enthusiasm to a degree you can almost imagine a stampede of rainbow farting unicorns
<vish> thorwil: yea, i'm often surprised that you havent had a Heart attack yet..
<thorwil> a *what* attack?
<vish> thorwil: oops! forgot, a pacemaker attack ;)
<vish> thorwil: i think we would do fine commenting on OMG! and fit in the crowd well ..  its all about who can be funnier there ;p
<thorwil> 0.o
<thorwil> if i want funny comments, i take reddit over omg any day (for questionable values of funny)
<vish> heh yea.. OMG is more kidde stuff.. ;)
<darkmatter> vish: hehe at the gravity link:P
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-09-24
<thorwil> http://www.jonobacon.org/2010/09/23/taking-a-step-back-with-fresh-eyes/
<thorwil> "To assess learnability â what resources and experience do we provide for new contributors to learn the skills to participate?"
<thorwil> 0.o
<darkmatter> thorwil: I see your "0.o" and raise you a "lolwut?"
<thorwil> should we offer some kind of art/design course?
<darkmatter> thorwil: no, that would be silly. we could offer a nice, clean set of general resources (links to quality reference material, maybe a bit of documentation where it is sorely lacking), a bit of a patience and a helping hand when absolutely required.
<darkmatter> thorwil: I only believe in helping those who help themselves. all the teaching in the world is useless if passion/drive is lacking
<thorwil> to me it looks like only very few people around are actually passionate about artwork and design :/
<dumbstupidhuman> Ive been looking at some links, is there a central location to see exactly what kind of art and design the group does?
<thorwil> dumbstupidhuman: the question of that location is among our current problems
<thorwil> dumbstupidhuman: you can find lots of stuff of the past from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/
<dumbstupidhuman> thanks, I keep asking people the same questions,
<thorwil> dumbstupidhuman: http://art.ubuntu-owl.org/ might become a central repository in future
<dumbstupidhuman> is there a direction the group might be going to consolidate?
<darkmatter> thorwil: it is a noticeable issue. an unfortunately passion isn't something you can learn. I suppose we could work on helping people fire their own imaginations (and thus help kindle a sparkle, much as one  encourages their own childrens development, or even as teachers (well, the good ones at least) attempt to fuel that same fire in their students), but the desire to do such has to be within the target to some degree already
<dumbstupidhuman> ah, beat me to it
<darkmatter> and*
<thorwil> dumbstupidhuman: direction is another problem :)
<dumbstupidhuman> ;) as long as we keep moving, a direction will happen
<thorwil> oh, that's an interesting take
<thorwil> dumbstupidhuman: do you have a portfolio, online?
<darkmatter> tha reminds me of a horde of lemmings, where the resulting direction usually ends up being the edge of a cliff ;)
<dumbstupidhuman> i do not currently have a portfolio online. been going to school the last year and have been neglecting
<dumbstupidhuman> haha, at least lemmings get to experience flight at least once
<dumbstupidhuman> i dont have much experience doing desktop beautification. Some icon work,
<thorwil> dumbstupidhuman: well, what can we do to help you taking a first step here?
<jpgnizak> the artist formerly known as dumbstupidhuman
<thorwil> jpgnizak: if you intend to build a series of work or take on any long term project, consider to create a blog about it
<jpgnizak> good idea
<jpgnizak> O
<thorwil> kwwii: how's things?
<kwwii> thorwil: good and you?
<thorwil> kwwii: not too bad :)
<kwwii> good to hear
<thorwil> nobody cared about my claim on the ml that the design team doesn't like kittens and is disrespectful to ponies, it seems :}
<kwwii> lol
<zniavre> with the last metacity update i loose 3 pixels in my metacity theme
<thorwil> zniavre: and where do those 3 pixels end up?
<thorwil> i hope they don't end up clogging something up!
<zniavre> who knows ?
<kwwii> neat when math changes overnight
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-09-25
<jpgnizak> âScience is what we understand well enough to explain to a computer. Art is everything else we do.ââDonald Knuth
<rsw> anyone home?
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-09-26
<feeze> LF help
<feeze> can some1 help me to install .net Framework 2.0 on Lucid
<feeze> fixme:msi:msi_unimplemented_action_stub MsiUnpublishAssemblies -> 2 ignored L"MsiAssembly" table values
<feeze> what i need to do?
<troy_s> vish / thorwil et al - greetings.
<thorwil> hi troy_s
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-09-21
<Viper550> coz_, hello
<coz_> Viper550,  hey guy
<Viper550> I've had a history here btw. But anyway
<coz_> ok :)
<Viper550>  http://i.imgur.com/WCKpc.png I'm working on something I'm told, with GRUB 2, would be feasable
<coz_> Viper550,  i like the look of that ,, nice clean simple :)
<coz_> Viper550,  have you offered this idea  :)
<Viper550> I was discussing it on #ayatana last night
<coz_> excellent!   they like it ...yes?
<coz_> Viper550,  apologies.. I have to sign off for now,, I have to get to bed for work tomorrow,,, I would like to hear more about this though,,,, I will be on tomorrow night around  5 pm
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-09-22
<Lirodon> Hello
<Lirodon> darkmatter, hey
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-09-23
<hellfirex> Hey I know im new i was directed by the website and i want to contibute some photography
<hellfirex> sry bout the username btw n is mikeame
<hellfirex> hello?
<hellfirex> is there anybody out there?
<hellfirex> nod if you hear me
<coz_> is there a mini iso available yet?
<coz_> wrong channel :(
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-09-24
<mulbs> hey, i don;t really run ubuntu, but for some reason i have decided openbox needs an ambience theme, however, i'm a little confused by exactly what i should be working off
<mulbs> i can't run unity, so i'm basing it on a slightly hacked metacity theme (the one from bzr does not seem to work with debian)
<mulbs> http://david.chalkskeletons.com/files/themes/obambiance_u.png is where i am at
#ubuntu-artwork 2012-09-23
<uros1> Hello all:  where to download official 12.10 logo in .svg please
<uros1> Hello all:  where to download official 12.10 logo in .svg please
<uros1> nihil_enochian: hello
<uros1> there is official artwor catalog, take a look https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Catalog
<uros1> and, there is brand guidelines http://design.canonical.com/the-toolkit/ubuntu-brand-guidelines/
<nihil_enochian> hello uros1
<uros1> pozz
<nihil_enochian> thanks for this
<uros1> :)
<uros1> for official logo, we must wait here, no other way for now
<nihil_enochian> ok
#ubuntu-artwork 2013-09-16
<CarlosRibeiro> hello all
<CarlosRibeiro> I would like to know if you guys are the ones responsible for the screenshoots during the ubuntu-gnome installation process
<CarlosRibeiro> does anyone knows who is the responsible for that?
#ubuntu-artwork 2019-09-16
<LuckyMan> hi, you guys should create an ello account to publicize the wallpaper contests. Hello is full of artists.
<LuckyMan> ello, I mean
