#ayatana 2009-07-06
<macvr> mpt: busy?
<macvr> mpt: i assigned a couple of bugs that fell in the domain of the appcentre , for your design consideration , hope you dont mind
<macvr> hi... does the desktop team/mailing list also involve in the usability issues of UNR? or can it be dealt with in ayatana?
<SiDi> macvr: yeh
<macvr> SiDi: yeah to which?
<ScottK> macvr: I think desktop team is just Ubuntu.  I think you have to address UNR issue to the mobile team.
<macvr> ScottK: ah... totally for that team! :)
<macvr> thanx
<macvr> for/forgot^
#ayatana 2009-07-07
<djsiegel> hey guys
<djsiegel> http://blog.davebsd.com/2009/07/07/test-drive-ubuntu-on-your-mac-with-ubuntu-app/
<djsiegel> check it out
<DBO> davidbarth, I have pushed my initial testing dbus daemon (currently written in mono, but ready for C porting once me an neil are happy with it) to https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~jassmith/wncksync/trunk
<DBO> the daemon works as expected, responding providing .desktop files in return for window XID's and providing lists of XID's for .desktop files
#ayatana 2009-07-08
<macvr> ScottK: just out of curiosity....how difficult would it be to mark a package as "requires reboot"?
<ScottK> macvr: There's no mechanism for knowing in advance.  Currently you touch /var/run/reboot-required the postinst of the relevant package.
<lamalex> can we change that?
<ScottK> lamalex: We can change anything.  It's free software.
<macvr> ScottK:  i undersatnd that there is no present mechanism... but how difficult is it going to be to implement it?
<ScottK> macvr: It shouldn't be really hard, but I'm not sure it's at all necessary.
<ScottK> With the exception of Firefox, generally you can install the new version and just catch it on the next boot and keep working.
<ScottK> The previous version keeps working just fine.
<macvr> ScottK: the problem is updates requiring reboot can be done either at shutdown/login. while the rest are done in-session
<macvr> ah...
<macvr> so... there is no *need* for a reboot!
<macvr> but to the contrary i'v found some packages misbehave :(
<ScottK> I'm of the opinion that the optimal solution in this area is to have a subtle, but noticeable indication to the user that there are updates available, they install them when they think it's a good idea, and you also give them a similar indication that a reboot is required and they can do that when they feel like it too.
<ScottK> macvr: There may be others. Firefox definitely needs an immediate restart (not the whole system though).
<macvr> ScottK: hate firefox!
<macvr> it messes up a lot of things , addons dont work!
 * ScottK isn't a huge fan either, but it's an important use case for the system.
<macvr> i think a lot of people would , jump ship to Chrome as soon as chrome is made for native linux and has provision to port firefox extension to chrome
<macvr> ScottK: i like you idea... all that i required is re-wording... not use reboot , since it is a warning/harsh word for the users coming from windows
<macvr> ScottK: could you mail your idea to the list?
<ScottK> macvr: Feel free to copy/paste/mail the IRC log.  I'm unlikely to have time to write something better for a while (doing $WORK).
<macvr> if i quote other members , i was said not to quote 
<macvr> ScottK: sent :)
<macvr> lamalex: i guess you still arent awake ;p
<lamalex> huh?
<lamalex> I've been up for hours
<lamalex> It's 3pm
<lamalex> macvr: ^
<macvr> weird ctcp says 9 am!
<lamalex> ah, my vps is in the USA
<lamalex> but I am in france
<macvr> au revoir monsieur ;p
<lamalex> tu pars?
<SiDi_> yeh, he's too ashamed to stay
<lamalex> :)
<ScottK> macvr: It may have escaped your notice, but the way I described thinking updates should work is the way it worked before people started 'improving' it.
<macvr> SiDi_: no... i think lamalex  needs sleep
<SiDi_> ScottK: i +1 you
<macvr> ScottK: no...i know what you said... see my recent mail!
<SiDi_> the problem is imo educational, and not in our implementation of updates
<SiDi_> i'm ok for the update manager to be intrusive when security updates are pending
<SiDi_> but not for regular updates
<lamalex> macvr: if *you* read what he said, ScottK is describing the old system of updates
<ScottK> SiDi_: I disagree.  Even security updates are rarely urgent for typical users.
<SiDi_> ScottK: no, but they are for the image of Ubuntu :)
<SiDi_> think about users who'd get hacked cause of a flaw known for several weeks/months
<SiDi_> all the "IT" websites would give us a nice advertising
<SiDi_> and this is an issue
<ScottK> SiDi_: My point is that it's very rare the security issue that could cause a typical user to get hacked.
<macvr> ScottK: i know that the update solution needs more "improving" but i'm just mentioning the rewording for a papercut
<SiDi_> (not to mention massive attacks if our end users begin acting like windows's ones)
<SiDi_> ScottK: indeed, but we need to make sure it never happens at all :d
<macvr> SiDi_: +1 to ScottK: 
<SiDi_> macvr: this is not papercut-ish
<SiDi_> the question isnt trivial
<macvr> SiDi_: papercuts are all about rewording! dont confuse the two threads~
<SiDi_> there are currently 4 issues i can identify : some updates require reboot in order to be fully performed | some updates require app restart | updates shouldnt be intrusive | updates MUST be performed
<SiDi_> for me updates on shutdown fails to address any of these issues
<macvr> SiDi_: oh my god! i'm not trying to solve the updates! just proposed a papercut solution!
<ScottK> SiDi_: Go back and look for the last time there was a security fix for an issue that allowed remote priviledge escalation.  It's been quite some time.  We generally get only a handful per year of those and a small hand at that.
<SiDi_> updates on login is a big amount of effort that fails to address #3 but that partially addresses #2 and #4
<SiDi_> ScottK: indeed, but security is all about being paranoiac :)
<SiDi_> macvr: papercut for what ? at the moment when an update makes it needed to restart an app, it says "This app must be RESTARTED" it doesnt say rebooted
<macvr> SiDi_: we get paranoid... but not the average user! most of them just dont care
<lamalex> SiDi_: update on login also solves 1
<ScottK> SiDi_: It's about being rationale and balancing risk and benifit.  If you've connected to the internet you've already made some compromises.
<lamalex> and totally addresses 2
<lamalex> oh, i misread
<SiDi_> lamalex: #1 is really not a desktop issue... only server issue since servers must do the updates AND stay up all time
<SiDi_> #1 can be delayed for a day without problem
<macvr> SiDi_: holly crap! I'm only talking about the updates requiring reboot!
<SiDi_> ScottK: indeed :p
<lamalex> yah
<lamalex> it doesn't fully fail to address #3
<macvr> papercut for those!
<SiDi_> macvr: we have to care instead of them. That's why mpt took such a drastic decision as update-manager popping up
<SiDi_> i agree with the goal but not with the way it is achieved ~
<ScottK> SiDi_: It doesn't acheive the goal either.  
<macvr> SiDi_: me too
<SiDi_> lamalex: i think several mecanisms are needed, and most of them are educational
<ScottK> It assumes the wrong problem.
<macvr> SiDi_: highly intrusive!
<ScottK> The problem isn't people not being able to figure out there were updates available, but that they didn't care.
<SiDi_> ScottK: indeed
<ScottK> The caring part won't be fixed in software.
<SiDi_> from my own testing, the "guy-who-knows-about-computers" has to shout in order to get the "end-user" to perform updates
<ScottK> Yep.
<macvr> haha ^so true
<ScottK> I periodically ssh into all the desktops in the house and update them.
<SiDi_> Can we agree on the 4 goals i wrote above, and try to see how each proposed solution addresses them ?
<SiDi_> ScottK: im too lazy for that, i just ask if they thought about it when i have them on phone :)
<macvr> SiDi_: the goals are right 
<ScottK> SiDi_: I agree, except that other than in very rare cases there is almost zero urgency for updates to get installed.
<SiDi_> (updates on shutdown with other mecanisms can address #2 actually : if we add preinst mecanisms to say that an app will have to be restarted after update, and if we check if the app runs during the update, we can ask the user if (s)he wants to delay the update upon closing this app / the session)
<SiDi_> (and for upon closing the session, we gently propose it again when s/he does because s/he can have changed her/his mind
<macvr> SiDi_: shutdown achieves #1  #3 #4
<ScottK> Firefox updates as a class also tend to be somewhat urgent.
<SiDi_> #1 is not a desktop issue macvr ^.^
<macvr> ah!
<SiDi_> alright, i'll write a wiki page with the goals, and then i dont know what ill do but i have a few mins to find out ~
<SiDi_> by the way people, when you change title, please add (Was : $OLD_TITLE)
<macvr> SiDi_: no... its more fun when people get confused ;p
<macvr> djsiegel_: ping!
<djsiegel_> macvr: what's up, man!
<macvr> djsiegel_: hi...are you interested in fixing this for the karmic papercut cycle? https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana/msg00502.html
<SiDi_> Takes time to write this damn wikipage
<SiDi> Amazing
<SiDi> i had a kernel panic when i had just *finished* the wiki page
<SiDi> im so pissed
 * SiDi noticed the wiki saves templates automaticaly so ... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ayatana/UpdateIssues#preview
<SiDi> its almost finished
<macvr> SiDi: the issue 4> remove the "non-negligible" , it sounds rude
<macvr> SiDi: just "A proportion" / "A fair proportion"
<ScottK> macvr: It's wiki
<SiDi> Does it really sound rude ?
<macvr> ScottK: i knowi can edit...... but he is stil working on it
<SiDi> ScottK: im playing with the template for adding proposals of solutions so its locked
<ScottK> SiDi: You might go ahead and put in "Revert to what it was in Intrepid" as a proposal is you're taking IRC edit requests.
<SiDi> ScottK: feel free to do so :)
<SiDi> ill let you know as soon as i stop editing
<SiDi> ScottK: im for a mix of previous + current behaviour + some addons
<SiDi> i'll explain it all in little time
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> Not that what was there before was perfect, but I think it's a better basis for further development than the Jaunty experiment.
<SiDi> i learnt about the current situation late : in xubuntu we kept the old behaviour
<SiDi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ayatana/UpdateIssues can now be edited
<SiDi> im gonna work on some idea on my side
<SiDi> ScottK: macvr ^
<macvr> SiDi: already on it ;p
<SiDi> i'll announce it on the ML
<macvr> SiDi: edited it... check it out
<SiDi> macvr: dont put a table of contents on the page pls ^.^ i put some damn long titles everywhere, the toc will be too big :p
<macvr> SiDi: its better to navigate that way... title dont matter , it even easier if in future someone adds an idea, providing a link to the idea makes references easier
<SiDi> then i have to strip it down
<SiDi> bah, i'll see this tomorrow in details macvr, i might aswell cut it into several pages
<SiDi> what matters now is content :p
<SiDi> (btw you had left the ubuntu-art icon in the ToC Q.Q)
<macvr> oops!
<macvr> SiDi: do you have a screenshot of the restart dialogue?
<SiDi> no macvr 
<SiDi> not relevant anyway : im on xubuntu
<macvr> ;p
<SiDi> ;)
#ayatana 2009-07-09
<macvr> SiDi: dont trash your own idea! > [with a quite bad wording] !
<SiDi> its true :p
<SiDi> anyway im too lazy to finish this tonight
<SiDi> i found a kitten today so it took a lot of my time ! gonna code a little now
#ayatana 2009-07-10
<lool> MacSlow: Heya, I think you're picking up plymouth?  (not sure)  there is this merge request to fix plymouth lp:~marceloshima/plymouth/ubuntu
<SiDi> MacSlow: hello, back from Gran Canaria ?
<MacSlow> lool, I think we're not using plymouth
<MacSlow> SiDi, yeah... and sorting out stuff
<SiDi> MacSlow: let me know when you have ~15/20 minutes for me please ;) i've got 2 bugs i wanna talk to you about
<lool> MacSlow: Are you still planning work on it though?
<lool> MacSlow: I think we decided it was not worth it in karmic
<MacSlow> SiDi, I see
<MacSlow> SiDi, btw bug-numbers
<MacSlow> ?
<SiDi> 382094
<SiDi> and 335383
<SiDi> or one of its duplicates, MacSlow 
<SiDi> damn no ubottu
<SiDi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/notify-osd/+bug/335383 https://bugs.launchpad.net/notify-osd/+bug/382094
 * SiDi is back
<MacSlow> SiDi, we'll probably have some gconf-keys for notify-osd for things like fg/text-color, bg-color and title/body text-size
<SiDi> MacSlow: ok, i'll see if i can write a little gui for it then, keep me in touch
<MacSlow> SiDi, but atm I'm still busy with blur/surface-cache, text- and bubble-grow-animation
<SiDi> is it possible to add auto detection of the xfce font / dpi ?
<SiDi> i can give you the API to use if you want
<MacSlow> SiDi, I don't know... I only know how this works under gnome
<SiDi> it's not hard to do :) its just that its called xfconf instead of gconf
<SiDi> MacSlow: want me to write pseudo code for it in the bug report ?
<MacSlow> SiDi, with all the pending work I'd prefer a patch :)
<SiDi> MacSlow: i'll write a patch then XD
<MacSlow> SiDi, best would be a compile-time option (defaulting to gnome/gconf like it is now)
<SiDi> but it will take a little more time
<MacSlow> and if you pass e.g. --use-xconf switching to well the XFCE-variant
<SiDi> ok, then i suppose we would ship another notify-osd package with xfce settings ?
<MacSlow> SiDi, that's the xfce-maintainers decision not mine :)
<SiDi> okey then, thanks
<SiDi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/notify-osd/+bug/382094 would you also accept a patch for the changes described here ?
<MacSlow> SiDi, there you mainly request the "reformatting" of the output we provide in the ~/.cache/notify-osd.log right?
<SiDi> yes
<SiDi> and addition of priority (apparently trivial) and image when possible (requires more work)
<SiDi> its just much easier to parse that way and reduces the amount of particular cases / restrictions of content in title / body
<MacSlow> priority ?= urgency-level I assume
<SiDi> yes
<MacSlow> SiDi, "icon" is very hard
<MacSlow> I'd just say it'll be filled with a filename if one is provided
<SiDi> when its given to you via the path, you directly get the pixbuf and dont store the path ?
<SiDi> i want the filename when it exists, otherwise gtk-missing-image is fair enough
<SiDi> if i notice people ask why i cant provide the image in the notification history i'll add a FAQ/Help entry in my app explaining it
#ayatana 2009-07-12
<SiDi> i've just done something epic
<SiDi>  accidentally clicked on "Offer mentoring" in a Exaile bug, and then i panicked and clicked again, and it kinda clicked on the "Confirm" button
<SiDi> and i accidentally made Ayatana discussion a mentor for this bug
<macvr> lmao
<tgpraveen2> should i file a bug that notifications  should support smileys?
<SiDi_> tgpraveen2: what do you mean ?
<tgpraveen2> when a friend im's me
<tgpraveen2> the notification has like
<tgpraveen2> hi man :-)
<tgpraveen2> : - )
<SiDi_> oh, you wouldnt want it to display a smiley INSIDE the body ? :/
<tgpraveen2> it doesnt convert to a smiley in the notification
<tgpraveen2> yes
<SiDi_> That's not going to happen imo :)
<tgpraveen2> it would really improve things as IM notifications are very common of all the notification
<tgpraveen2> why?
<SiDi_> because it'd be an heavy code addition for a completely useless feature
<tgpraveen2> :-(
<SiDi_> IM apps are meant to use the messaging applet instead of notifications now
<SiDi_> and i dont know any notification daemon implementation that puts images in the body :)
<macvr> tgpraveen2: when formatting is not allowed i highly doubt smileys will be ;p
<SiDi_> its allowed by the spec, but Mirco will refuse :P
<tgpraveen2> :hmmm... maybe we should just invent a ASCII 2,0 with smileys as characters itself
<MenTaLguY> hm, will we still have the option of having notifications for messaging?
<tgpraveen2> :-P
<tgpraveen2> MenTaLguY: yes
<MenTaLguY> ok, cool
<SiDi_> tgpraveen2: an UTF-8 2,0 then :p
<tgpraveen2> SiDi_: oh is it that. ok then UTF-9 it is
<tgpraveen2> :-D
<MenTaLguY> don't notifications use Unicode? âº
<SiDi_> tgpraveen2: i fear it'll be hard to put it on 9 bits
<tgpraveen2> hmm UTF-8++
<SiDi_> UTF-8Â²
<tgpraveen2> that would also do
<macvr> MenTaLguY: i'v tried using unicode , you can send unicode symbols in notify-osd
<macvr> but the progam should a be able to send ;p
<macvr> notify-send "âº " " " -i notification-message-email
<macvr> tgpraveen2: ^
<SiDi_> now imagine what happens if you got ten :P :P :P smilies appearing in a notification bubble in the middle of a presentation for your company !
<tgpraveen2> SiDi_: presentation time handling of notifications is being discused
<macvr> that is why you need to have"Do not Disturb" mode
<tgpraveen2> macvr: good. that is what we should use
<tgpraveen2> maybe when user sends : - ) we should change it to that
<tgpraveen2> and also maybe increase it's size asa it seems smaller than the text
<tgpraveen2> is this something that should be suggested as many times my friends IM me smileys and they look bad in this system
<macvr> i have tried using unicode symbols , in the thunderbird extension, but it never worked :(
<SiDi_> tgpraveen2: tell them to make sexier smilies ! :O
#ayatana 2010-07-12
<qense> djsiegel1: bug #458376 grumble, grumble
<ubot5> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: list.index(x): x not in list (https://launchpad.net/bugs/458376)
<qense> Bug #458376 in One Hundred Paper Cuts: âIndicate the active keyboard layout in 'Keyboard Preferences'-&gt;Layoutsâ
<ubot5> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: list.index(x): x not in list (https://launchpad.net/bugs/458376)
<qense> Was marked as Won't Fix by upstream because the user has to learn to understand the connection between the indicator and the keyboard layout settings.
<qense> ivanka: You're atteding GUADEC too! It seems quite a bunch of people from Canonical are coming to The Hague this summer.
<ivanka> qense: yes! Will you be there?
<qense> ivanka: You're a person I can test something on! Would you find a link to <http://www.ietf78.nl/practicalities.html> useful?
<qense> ivanka: Yes! I'm working on the website and will probably be a volunteer during the conference.
<ivanka> qense: that looks useful - shall I read it properly this afternoon and let you know?
<qense> ivanka: That'd be fine.
<qense> thanks :)
<ivanka> qense: a pleasure
<andreasn> ivanka, looking forward to see you there!
<ivanka> andreasn: yes! I am looking forward to having the time to talk about UX advocates and heuristics without interference!
<andreasn> totally, will you be there mon-fri?
<qense> Monday is The GNOME Open Desktop Day.
<andreasn> and BOFs
<qense> yes
<thorwil> mpt: hi! seems a little odd to me that an important widget fades into the background and isn't even clearly outlined on http://i1-news.softpedia-static.com/images/extra/LINUX/large/ubuntu1010installer-large_002.jpg
<mpt> thorwil, the grippy?
<thorwil> mpt: yes
<mpt> good point
<mpt> ev and I are just trying the implementation in a VM to see how much the problem has survived
<mpt> thorwil, it's not quite as bad in the current implementation, because the splitter grippy is short grey lines rather than black dots. However, they are still faint so it's difficult to tell that it's draggable. Perhaps you could report a bug on the themes to make the grippy more visible?
<thorwil> mpt: the partition blocks to the sides of the divider are no active areas right? if so, the best solution might be to make the whole area active, use a thin line as visual diver, with an arrow pointing down on top as clear mark. as soon as the pointer enters the area, highlight the arrow
 * thorwil -> lunch
<mpt> thorwil, maybe, though that might be forwards-/sideways-incompatible with a partitioning tool that let you do interesting things by clicking/dragging the blocks (e.g. to rearrange the partitions on disk)
<mpt> It would greatly increase the target area, though.
<thorwil> mpt: in that case, you could switch to a 2 row approach. upper row entirely for resizing, lower for arranging
<thorwil> mpt: have you considered to add a button/link to a everything-you-need-to-know-about-partitioning doc?
<mpt> thorwil, no, I'm not working on installer design at the moment, michaelforrest is.
<djsiegel1> vish: ping
<vish> djsiegel1: pong
<djsiegel1> vish: back from lunch
<djsiegel1> you there?
<qense> djsiegel1: What do you think of bug #458376 ?
<ubot5> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: list.index(x): x not in list (https://launchpad.net/bugs/458376)
<djsiegel1> qense: I wanted to let you and vish know
<qense> ok
<djsiegel1> in addition to accepting paper cuts for bad software descriptions, maybe also accept paper cuts for bad screenshots?
<djsiegel1> (in Software Center)
<qense> djsiegel1: The problem that could be caused by that (and to a lesser extend is already being caused by the description paper cuts) is that there are quite a lot of those kind of problems.
<qense> djsiegel1: We could easily find more than 100 of those bugs.
<djsiegel1> qense: you should ask mpt about that buig
<djsiegel1> qense: so? that's good!
<djsiegel1> you want it to be hard to find paper cuts?
<djsiegel1> :)
<qense> djsiegel1: The problem with te screenshots is that we don't run the screenshot repository.
<djsiegel1> yes, that;s a problem
<qense> djsiegel1: Not hard, we should just make sure there remains space for the usability problems
<djsiegel1> I discovered something today
<qense> djsiegel1: E.g. a requirement for browsers is that they have to have the Debian home page loaded.
<djsiegel1> SOFTWARE CENTER SHOWS YOU THE ***OLDEST*** SCREENSHOT AVAILABLE FOR ANY GIVEN PACKAGE
<qense> We also don't have consistent themes on the screenshots.
<vish> djsiegel1: hi
<qense> djsiegel1: The oldest???!?!?!? :S
<djsiegel1> That was me screaming
<djsiegel1> yes
<vish> djsiegel1: anyone can upload screenshots.. and it needs to be accepted by the debian admins
<qense> 1997 is preferred over 2010? OMG
<djsiegel1> yes
<djsiegel1> I was wondering why the screenshot for GNOME Do is 2 years old
<djsiegel1> when an updated one is uploaded to the database
<vish> djsiegel1: many dont know about it , http://screenshots.debian.net/
<djsiegel1> so I checked out the source of software center
<vish> thats where the screenshots are pulled from
<djsiegel1> it gets the oldest image available
<djsiegel1> yes I know where they are from
<qense> djsiegel1: But what I mean is that improving the descriptions and screenshots is a massive task, but it only improves the Software Centre. That's very important, but we shouldn't lose focus on the paper cuts.
<qense> djsiegel1: Is there a bug for that?
<djsiegel1> qense: agreed
<djsiegel1> qense: I emailed the database maintainer
<qense> djsiegel1: it is a bug in the screenshots database?
<djsiegel1> about returning the newest shot available by default instead of the oldest
<qense> ok
<djsiegel1> qense: it can be considered a bug in both
<qense> <djsiegel1> qense: it can be considered a bug in both
<qense> whoops
<qense> Playing witht he keyboard.
<qense> djsiegel1: Did you receive a response already>
<qense> ?
<qense> vish: What do you think about accepting bad screenshots as paper cuts?
<vish> qense: then every package has an old screenshot.. + we cant fix it from our end , the debian admins from http://screenshots.debian.net/  are in charge
<vish> only they can
<qense> vish: true
<qense> djsiegel1: Obviously we'd get the best result for Ubuntu if we'd manage our own screenshot repository and would fall back to Debian's once a screenshot couldn't be found. But it might anger some of the Debian Developers and it would mean we'd split our powers.
<vish> qense: what it needs is more exposure.. we need to scream "upload new screenshots"
<qense> Yeah, and an official Improvement Empowerment project could help a lot with that. But I'm just not so sure we should put it all in the Paper Cuts project. We might consider creating a separate project, but then I would include the descriptions in that as well and focus it completely on the improvement of the presentation of applications in the Software Centre.
<vish> and probably fix whatever is going on with the old screenshot being uploaded
<vish> rather being pulled
<qense> That would leave interface problems to the paper cuts.
<qense> vish: yeah, that is important to do
<qense> The bugs reported in the Paper Cuts project are of a different kind than the description and screenshot bugs. You can help with the descriptions and the screenshots even if you can't program.
<vish> qense: worse , a lot of packages in the feature apps themselves have crappy descriptions
<qense> but the paper cuts project does mainly attract people who fix bugs by coding and if you'd present them with the description and screenshots bugs they'd get bored.
<qense> vish: That should be our top priority for the Software Centre descriptions.
<qense> djsiegel1: But I'm not sure if we can manage to create a whole new project in the midst of a release cycle.
<qense> Of course launching the project would be doable, but it would be harder to get _everyone_ aligned.
<vish> qense: maybe someone should write a blog.. "did you know?"
<qense> vish: Planet Ubuntu can be of great help of course.
<qense> djsiegel1: What do you think of the things mentioned above?
<djsiegel1> qense: yeah I suppose that's out of scope
<mpt> qense, I just commented on bug 458376
<ubot5> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: list.index(x): x not in list (https://launchpad.net/bugs/458376)
<qense> What's wrong with ubot today?
<mpt> qense, maybe report a bug on ubot5 that it doesn't understand bug summaries with ">" in them?
<mpt> (I assume that's what it is)
<qense> mpt: seems plausible, I'll take a look
<mpt> or maybe it's the ''
<qense> mpt: Thanks for the comment!
<qense> djsiegel1: So, what to do with the screenshots? Accept bugs for it in the paper cuts project? Would you consider a bad screenshot a valid bug report against an Ubuntu package? I'm not so sure about that since it isn't anything Ubuntu controls, not our infrastructure.
<djsiegel1> qense: mvo says he's going to see it resolved on the server side
<qense> djsiegel1: So the bug will be fixed.
<qense> good
<vish> qense: that bug would be a papercut ;)
<vish> djsiegel1: got the bug# mvo is working on?
<djsiegel1> vish: no I don't have it
<vish> djsiegel1: also , i dont think we might hear anytime soon from iTorrey :(
<vish> kenvandine: hi , re: the adium theme patches, you had asked for djsiegel1's review , well he referred to iTorrey the author and he has commented/approved on two bugs Bug 542806  and Bug 531811
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 542806 in adium-theme-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "In chat rooms, empathy should not scroll to the bottom whenever a new message is received. (affected: 21, heat: 130)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/542806
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 531811 in adium-theme-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "History shown in Empathy chat window should be different from new messages (affected: 3, heat: 47)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/531811
<vish> could you commit them ..
<kenvandine> vish, sure
<vish> kenvandine: thanks , for Bug #595007 they dont know how to fix it..[comment #14] , if you have any ideas..
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 595007 in adium-theme-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "Timestamp in Ubuntu Empathy theme doesn't show the date (affected: 3, heat: 18)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/595007
<vish> the "secs" is an unnecessary extra item being displayed there..
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> vish, for bug 531811, what about the icon?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 531811 in adium-theme-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "History shown in Empathy chat window should be different from new messages (affected: 3, heat: 47)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/531811
<vish> of we can use the icon from recent documents..
<vish> just a sec , let me get the icon-name
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> although, the adium theme doesn't use icons from the icon theme
<kenvandine> they are bundled in the theme
<vish> kenvandine: "document-open-recent" , thats the one already used for View > Previous Conversations
<vish> ah , what size does it require?
<vish> we can export the existing ones to png and add it to adium theme
<kenvandine> one sec
<kenvandine> 32x32 i think
<vish> hmm , that seems too big
<vish> kenvandine: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1325768/document-open-recent-32.png
<vish> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1325768/document-open-recent-24.png
<vish> or  http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1325768/document-open-recent-22.png
<kenvandine> vish, ok, 24px
<kenvandine> vish, but i am not sure where to put it... it isn't loading it for me :/
 * kenvandine tries one more place :)
<vish> :)
<kenvandine> the bug report says in the Resources dir
<kenvandine> but i am not seeing it... and i think it should be appearing on the right hand side
#ayatana 2010-07-13
<humphreybc> Anyone else having an issue with the new AppMenu applet, where it won't display anything other than "File Edit" when any application is open, and just "Desktop" when it's on the desktop?
<humphreybc> It works fine on my Lucid netbook, but not on my lucid laptop.
<ccm> hi there
<ccm> is there a best method for configuring the icon panel size in unity?
<vish> http://imagebin.ca/view/6388it6j.html  are we blocking on OSX?   :D
<vish> not my screenshot though^
<qense> good afternoon
<dieki> Hey, is there a blueprint for window indicators anywhere? I've looked and looked, but I couldn't find it.
<mpt> dieki, there's a specification <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ayatana/Windicators>, but no blueprint as far as I know
<mpt> vish, http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/AAAAAAAAA!
<vish> wt*!
<vish> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
<vish> ;p
<vish> mpt: sometimes i wonder how many bookmarks you really have! ;)
<mpt> I stopped using bookmarks in 1998 when I discovered Google
<nigelb> mpt: lol @ google
<nigelb> Also, nice page :D
#ayatana 2010-07-14
<lamalex> Can I get the maverick sound menu in lucid?
<RAOF> lamalex: Probaby.  I don't know of an official PPA for the backport, though.
<seif_> djsiegel, we need ur opinion on something if u have a moment
<seif_> its a design issue we are facing
<thorwil> seif_: provided it's no secret - and then i would expect you to PM - i guess both he and the rest of the channel would appreciate if you just would come forward with the issue. that way a reaction can be given directly, instead of having to ask back
<djsiegel> seif_: I'm here.
<seif_> thorwil, sorry
<djsiegel> thorwil: I don't think that's a constructive way to criticize the way seif_ asked for help.
<thorwil> djsiegel: it was not meant as criticism, but a suggestion. and i saw the same do wonders in other channels several times. from awkward silence to constructive flow (albeit with usual varying irc latencies
<seif_> djsiegel, we have http://yfrog.com/j84axp vs. http://ubuntuone.com/p/9ZK/
<seif_> djsiegel, its just 2 siple implementations that need more work
<djsiegel> seif_: what are you asking?
<djsiegel> for a UI review?
<seif_> a structure review
<seif_> the UI is terrible
<seif_> i need to know if the layout makes sense
<seif_> whihc layout makes more sense
<seif_> having iconview vs listveiw
<djsiegel> seif_: they both have big issues
<seif_> and having the searchbar on top of the categories or below it
<djsiegel> this is not a way for us to work together
<djsiegel> you can't just come to me with two broken designs and ask me to pick!
<seif_> djsiegel, ok then what needs less changes
<seif_> ?
<djsiegel> I think the list view will be easier, I think you need labels to accompany the facet icons
<djsiegel> I think the search entry should never be 100% width
<seif_> ok notes taken
<djsiegel> I thin putting "Last accessed: some time ago" is a huge eye sore and redundant
<seif_> oh that was just a test
<seif_> we did not implement that yet
<djsiegel> see, this is too confusing for me to work on
<seif_> but i think we should keep it out
<seif_> djsiegel, sorr
<seif_> y
<djsiegel> if you want to have a casual chat about design ideas, we can do it another time, I am quite busy right now
<djsiegel> it's fine, no need to apologize
<seif_> ok back to work
<djsiegel> thorwil: sorry for snapping, I am coming down off a coffee high and a bit grumpy
<thorwil> djsiegel: np, my formulation could have been gentler :)
<thorwil> seif_: whether the search bar should be above or below the categories depends on its scope. is the search limited to the selected category? then below is better
<thorwil> same would apply to a left-right placement, though that does not imply a hierarchy that much
<LucidFox> kenvandine> Going to check the liferea patch
<kenvandine> LucidFox, thx
<LucidFox> kenvandine> builds on my machine (maverick amd64)
<LucidFox> http://paste.ubuntu.com/463568/
<kenvandine> liferea_1.6.3-1ubuntu2
<kenvandine> that should be ubuntu3 now
<kenvandine> there was an upload since your last diff
<kenvandine> try against the latest
<LucidFox> yes, I noticed, going to rebase the debdiff
<kenvandine> LucidFox, thx
<kenvandine> not sure if that is the problem, maybe it is just something i have installed here
<kenvandine> let me knwo
<LucidFox> Rebased, building - if it builds, I'll post the new debdiff
<LucidFox> kenvandine> It builds! Uploaded the rebased version to LP, going to try pbuilder now
<kenvandine> ok... i'll try in pbuilder too
<kenvandine> thx
<LucidFox> kenvandine> Built in pbuilder for me
<kenvandine> LucidFox, look at my last comment
<kenvandine> in the bug
<kenvandine> well, here :)
<kenvandine> Your debdiff from comment #33 does build for me in pbuilder, but it is missing a build depends for libindicate and doesn't explicitly enable libindicate so it builds without indicator support. If you add the build depends and enable it with configure i get the same failure in pbuilder for maverick.
<LucidFox> o_O How did I miss it
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> LucidFox, the build-depends should be on libindicate-dev
<LucidFox> Yep, they are in the 1.7 version. Also found the build issue, the function I'm attempting to call is called ui_feedlist_select in 1.6
<LucidFox> going to rebuild now
<LucidFox> kenvandine> Uploaded another version, this one definitely builds with libindicate. Sorry for the wasted time
<kenvandine> np
#ayatana 2010-07-15
<LucidFox> kenvandine> should I prepare a version of the Liferea patch with draw-attention disabled?
<kenvandine> LucidFox, i think that would be better
 * LucidFox nods
<LucidFox> Also, right now the behavior is that clicking one indicator opens the Liferea window and removes all indicators from the menu. Does it make sense, or should it remove just that one indicator?
<sense> good morning
<thorwil> good morning sense without q! :)
<sense> thorwil: Yeah! The Q is gone.
<sense> good morning to you too
<aday> mpt: is it meeting time?
 * mpt just gave <http://twitter.com/ubuntudesigners> and <http://identi.ca/ubuntudesigners> a visual makeover
<sense> yay for visual makeovers!
<aday> mpt: sorry i had to duck out of the meeting. did i miss anything?
<mpt> * aday (~aday@87.84.248.99) has left #ubuntu-meeting
<mpt> <mpt> aday, ivanka says she'll be happy to discuss this with you at Guadec, Monday to Wednesday.
<mpt> <mpt> d'oh
<aday> mpt: ha. discuss personas?
<mpt> aday, yes
<aday> mpt: cool. input from the canonical design crew would be great :)
<aday> mpt: i might need help finding interviewees once i've run a pilot or two
<aday> mpt: it looks like we'll be having an epiphany design session at guadec, btw
<mpt> cool
<aday> mpt: are you going to be at guadec?
<wers> hello
<mpt> aday, yes, the whole week
<aday> mpt: cool. it would be good to have you at the epiphany session
<wers> mpt, can we also test the new Ubuntu font? :)
<mpt> wers, you can do that right now if you're an Ubuntu member
<sense> How do the designers look to LoCos who change the colour of the CoF in their logos?
<abhijit> hello
<abhijit> I am already here
#ayatana 2010-07-16
<LucidFox> I wonder
<LucidFox> Have there been attempts to port the GNOME keyboard indicator to libappindicator?
<LucidFox> right now it's the only thing on my desktop that still uses a tray icon at boot
<seb128> LucidFox, it needs appindicator to support labels
<seb128> it only supports images right now
<LucidFox> Flags? :)
<seb128> I think it's on the roadmap for this cycle, ted would know better though
<seb128> not a chance
<LucidFox> I remember it supporting flags in some ancient version of Ubuntu, why was this feature removed anyway?
<seb128> because it leads to lot of political issues
<seb128> getting flag wrong in some countries lead to conflicting situations
<LucidFox> bratsche> So I'm welcome to write a patch for Epiphany fixing the bookmarks menu?
<LucidFox> actually... epiphany is in universe, I wouldn't even need a sponsor for that
<bratsche> LucidFox: Yeah, absolutely.
<bratsche> LucidFox: It's just very low-priority for me now since Epiphany doesn't go into UNE by default, and appmenus are only for UNE.
 * LucidFox nods
<bratsche> So that's why I'm not hacking on it.
<vish> bratsche: hi , cheese seems to be crashing with the gtk-csd changes..
<LucidFox> bratsche> The bookmarks menu is populated correctly if I activate it from the application first - I think I'm going to just hook the update menu function onto every action that updates the bookmarks list
<bratsche> LucidFox: Sounds reasonable.
<LucidFox> I so hate debian/control.in
 * saji89 is away: I'm busy. BRB..
<ScottK> vish: I thought CSD got turned off again?
<vish> ScottK: oh it did?  hmm , maybe it was an oldish crash report i saw
<ScottK> That's what I heard.
<LucidFox> Okay, epiphany patched
<jcastro> LucidFox: thanks for that, quite awesome!
 * saji89 is back (gone 02:50:13)
#ayatana 2010-07-17
<lamalex> Is there a problem with the ubuntu-beta font ppa?
<lamalex> I keep getting a 404 from the ppa
<zekopeko> anybody from the unity team online?
<seif> kenvandine, there?
#ayatana 2010-07-18
 * saji89_ is away: Off to have lunch.
<sense> good afternoon
<lamalex> Is this where unity issues should be raised?
<lamalex> or is there a better channel
<sense> lamalex: yes
<lamalex> The recent update to the ppa seems to have a pretty annoying bug where launchers are removed from the sidebar when the application is closed, regardless of whether or not it's set to stay in the launcher. Is this known?
<sense> You should check that in the Launchpad project.
<sense> https://launchpad.net/unity I believe
#ayatana 2011-07-11
<oSoMoN> good morning
<MacSlow> greetings
<andyrock> good morning
<kim0> Morning everyone :)
<kim0> I am trying to install the network indicator, but getting â indicator-network : Depends: libindicator3 (>= 0.3.19) but it is not going to be installed
<kim0> Is this known broken for now ?
<davidcalle> kim0, I don't think indicator-network has been updated to work with friday's libindicator update, you should ask kvalo about it.
<kim0> folks, is it possible to replace compiz by metacity and still run unity ?
<kim0> Hey folks .. Can someone please check those branches â https://code.launchpad.net/unity-place-applications/+activereviews
<kim0> They've been idle for too long
<coz_>  good day all
<tedg> Does this crash for other foks?
<tedg> gdb /usr/lib/libindicator/indicator-loader3 -ex "run /usr/lib/indicators3/6/libappmenu.so " -ex bt
<tedg> kenvandine, ^
<kenvandine> tedg, i'll try
<kenvandine> tedg, yup
<tedg> kenvandine, That's annoying :-)
<kenvandine> :)
#ayatana 2011-07-12
<oSoMoN> good morning
<MacSlow> hello there
<mick_> njpatel: Did you have time to look at the problems I had with unity and the spotify lens I wrote?
<njpatel> mick_, damn, sorry, I just forgot :S
<njpatel> mick_, let me try and take  a look tonight
<hicham> no progress on upstreaming gtk menuproxy patch ?
<njpatel> not sure, not in charge of that :)
<mick_> njpatel: No problem :) Do it when you have time. Im not in a hurry.
<API> njpatel, one question, it is still possible to build unity on natty
<API> Im trying to use this guide:
<API> http://askubuntu.com/questions/28470/how-do-i-build-unity-from-source
<hicham> njpatel: who is in charge ? kenvandine ?
<API> and your mail
<API> https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana-dev/msg00198.html
<njpatel> hicham, he does packaging, I believe tedg would be in charge
<API> but Im having some problems
<njpatel> API, I don't think it's possible at this point
<hicham> njpatel: thanks
<API> njpatel, ok, so I guess that I need to move to oneiric, right?
<njpatel> API, we've all moved to Oneiric now, especially due to the gtk3/gnome3 stuff
<mhr3> njpatel, how come you're not in #awn? :-o
<njpatel> API, yeah :)
<API> njpatel, ok thanks
<njpatel> mhr3, new laptop, don't have all my favourite channels stored in :)
<mhr3> ah, ok then :)
<kim0> seb128: Howdy o/
<kim0> This is Ahmed, I'm working with Jorge on the community side
<kim0> seb128: Could you please check out https://code.launchpad.net/unity-place-applications/+activereviews
<kim0> it's been idling for quite some time .. thanks
<seb128> hey kim0
<kim0> hey :)
<seb128> you want to talk to dx people, i.e njpatel
<seb128> desktop team (where I work) is doing packaging, not upstream code reviews
<seb128> jcastro, ^
<kim0> ok then, thanks
<seb128> yw
<kim0> njpatel: Hey o/ Can someone please check on https://code.launchpad.net/unity-place-applications/+activereviews
<njpatel> kim0, will do today
<kim0> njpatel: Thanks a lot man
<kenvandine> jjardon, indicator-power uses upower directly right?
<jjardon> kenvandine: no, It uses the g-p-m dbus interface to get the data
<kenvandine> jjardon, oh... ok... are you working on changing that to support g-s-d?
<kenvandine> since it is getting merged into gsd?
<jjardon> kenvandine: yeah, Iá¸¿ aware of that
<jjardon> kenvandine: but the change is trivial, only a change in the dbus call
<jjardon> kenvandine: anyway the code is still not in g-s-d, if you want to track the status: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=649470
<ubot5> Gnome bug 649470 in general "[uber-patch] port gnome-power-manager to gnome-settings-daemon" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<kenvandine> jjardon, no worries, there will be a number of things broken by that :)
<kenvandine> it is planned for 3.1.4 though
<andyrock> MacSlow, Â«The strings used for the notification need to be translatedÂ» Done! I don't know if that is the right way to show osd notifcation (my first time!)
<MacSlow> andyrock, that just fine
<andyrock> MacSlow, ok thx
<MacSlow> andyrock, do you nkow about the _("") macro for make strings translateable to the gnome tool-set?
<MacSlow> andyrock, btw... see my second comment on that particular bug
<andyrock> MacSlow, i know _("")... but i am idiot and i forgot it :)
<MacSlow> andyrock, I did two reviews of your proposed branches already... they are approved and by now merged to trunk... working on the fourth of your branches now
<andyrock> MacSlow, i have just add the _("") macro...
<MacSlow> andyrock, today is "all attention to Andrea"-day :)
<andyrock> MacSlow, ahahahahah... there is another big merge proposal... but njpatel is the reviewer and there is some problems :(
<andyrock> *there are
<MacSlow> andyrock, well by the end of the day, you should have at least four of your branches in unity trunk... better than nothing :)
<MacSlow> andyrock, I like the mem-leak fix best
<andyrock> MacSlow, my best record is three branch in just a day :)
<andyrock> MacSlow, mem-leaks suck!
<MacSlow> andyrock, this day we'll break that record :)
<MacSlow> andyrock, ok... three branches in trunk now... atm looking at your fix-750311 branch
<andyrock> MacSlow, the less secure than other... :)
<MacSlow> andyrock, lp:~andyrock/unity/fix-750311 doesn't work here... the trashcan does not pulse at all.
<andyrock> MacSlow, it should pusle just once...
<MacSlow> andyrock, it does not pulse at all here... not sure why that's the case... I need to run now... take a look at this again... tomorrow I'll revisit this, if you had time to look into it
<andyrock> MacSlow, ok thx.... i will try again... :)
<MacSlow> andyrock, see you tomorrow then
<njpatel> andyrock, dude, I *never* see "Keep In Launcher" for devices....which ones are meant to show?
<njpatel> show it*
<andyrock> whith last commit it should be visible for all unremovable devices...
<andyrock> i know that the design consider removable (usb, etc) devices too... but IMHO it has no sense...
<andyrock> njpatel, ^^^
<njpatel> andyrock, okay, that makes sense, let me test again and then i think i can merge it :D
 * andyrock is crossing his fingers
<njpatel> andyrock, give me a couple of mins, need to do a rebuild
<andyrock> njpatel, dont'worry... i can wait
#ayatana 2011-07-13
<oSoMoN> good morning
<MacSlow> morning folks
<mick_> Good morning MacSlow
<RAOF> njpatel: Your X server has arrived.  Go crazy with the cheesewhizz!
<njpatel> RAOF, WOOHOO!
<jcastro> njpatel: you see this? http://oli4444.wordpress.com/2011/07/13/ubuntu-unity-breaks-bluefish/
<njpatel> yep
<jcastro> I suspect the menu stuff is ted territory
<njpatel> dbusmuen and compiz
<njpatel> dbusmenu*
<njpatel> Would have been nice to link to the bugs
<jcastro> I can post.
<njpatel> `UBUNTU_MENUPROXY="" bluefish` should provide a workaround (not sure if there is a system-wide "excluded" list for dbusmenu)
<njpatel> jcastro, ^
<njpatel> jcastro, also, the window thing needs to be seen by smspillaz
<jcastro> there is a system wide one afaik
<jcastro> we use it for like broken Java apps, etc.
<njpatel> sweet
<njpatel> so he can ask his user to put bluefish in there
<njpatel> but the WM issue is a bigger problem
<andyrock> title fade effect no longer works on onieric... should i report a new bug?
<jcastro> njpatel: unity releases this week?
<njpatel> jcastro, er, maybe
<jcastro> njpatel: anything to add to the report other than the usual stuff in the changelog?
<jcastro> andyrock: nice work on that drag-to-trash usb key thing
<njpatel> jcastro, nothing I can think of, sorry for the late reviews :)
<jcastro> no worries, they're in there now, heh
<andyrock> jcastro, oh thx... three merging yesterday! :) thx to MacSlow
<jcastro> \o/
<MacSlow> andyrock, yw
<jcastro> maybe someday we'll catch you!
<andyrock> jcastro, i am to idiot :)
<andyrock> *too
<jcastro> andyrock: I think you've got more commits than DBO
<jcastro> :p
<jcastro> hey IRC meeting today
<andyrock> jcastro, sure... :) the problem is the heat here... more than 37 C ( about 100 F)
<jcastro> andyrock: no AC?
<jcastro> cimi doesn't have AC either, is that an italian thing?
<andyrock> jcastro, AC is too American :P
<Daekdroom> 37 C D:
<andyrock> Daekdroom, and very wet and no wind -.-
<Daekdroom> I'm used to dryness. :3
<Daekdroom> The absolute maximum temperature ever recorded where I live is exactly that.
<andyrock> jcastro, 1800 UTC right?
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> DBO: can you be available for the unity team meeting today? 4pm local
<DBO> jcastro, ping me prior but yes
<jcastro> woo
<seif> where is didrocks
<Trevinho> jcastro: meeting today?
<jcastro> yep
<jcastro> ~3 hours
<Trevinho> mh... I don't know if I'm at home in 3 hours...
<Trevinho> I've to dinner outside... :(
<Dimitroff> hello Unity users
<Dimitroff> just quick question you prolly heard many times
<Dimitroff> how to move window buttons to right, when window is maximized?
<jcastro> Dimitroff: this isn't possible
<jcastro> Trevinho: still around?
 * jcastro prods DBO
<jcastro> DBO: stand by!
<DBO> standing by
<jcastro> ok, we're going to start our weekly Unity Contributor meeting
<jcastro> http://ubuntu-news.org/2011/07/13/run-ocelot-run-unity-report-for-13-july/
<jcastro> here's the report for the week
<jcastro> so far the biggest issue this week has been the back up of Merge Proposals
<jcastro> but the DX team hit those  pretty hard yesterday
<jcastro> so we're not so doomed
<jcastro> Here are the current outstanding MP's: https://code.launchpad.net/unity/+activereviews
<jcastro> DBO: check out trevino's, he's been messing around in indicator land, we gotta get him back on the cool train
<njpatel> I'll have andyrock's branched merged tomorrow latest
<jcastro> he was around earlier, his only beef is he doesn't have an air conditioner.
<njpatel> and daniel's if he proposes one for trunk at some point this evening, otherwise as soon asit's ready
<jcastro> they're making great progress on the backlog bugs
<jcastro> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/unity-stats/
<jcastro> check out the backlog graph
<jcastro> red line (committed but not fix released yet)
<jcastro> ok so other than the usual grind, there doesn't appear to be any outstanding problems this week other than the clog of MPs
<jcastro> everyone keep rocking, you're all amazing beacons of OSS blah blah.
<jcastro> ok, now we can get back to work. *gavel*
<Trevinho> jcastro: yes I am
<Trevinho> Ah, jcastro ok... I already am back on the cool train...
<Trevinho> I just had to finish to implement something with indicators...
<jcastro> awesome
<jcastro> you have any issues for the week?
<Trevinho> Now I've finished the middle-click support (i.e. for mute with indicator-sound)
<Trevinho> and now I was looking at the fading title again (it's not working now in trunk)
<Trevinho> then... I would like to work in bamf again, but I'm still waiting for my previous merge request
<Trevinho> So I know if I can use my tree as basis or not for future work
<jcastro> iirc dbarth was talking to you about the bamf bug right?
<jcastro> I totally lost track of what's going on there
<Trevinho> Mh, I don't remeber who was there... However nothing changed
<Trevinho> at least the fact that I've made libwnck support correctly the WM_Class...
<Trevinho> that library was missing some APIs, so it was not possible for us to retrieve all the informations we needed
<Trevinho> So now we should: re-fix properly chromium (Making it to export the wm_class in the proper order), make bamf to use the wm_class values to match applications
<Trevinho> as it used to be, but avoiding any crash
<Trevinho> to do*
<andyrock> jcastro, i'm late i know :(
<jcastro> it's ok, people are still around
<jcastro> andyrock: any issues this week?
<andyrock> jcastro, mmm... just a problem with a bug...
<jcastro> DBO and njpatel are around
<jcastro> if you wanna talk about it
<andyrock> jcastro, https://code.launchpad.net/~andyrock/unity/fix-750311/+merge/67467
<andyrock> jcastro, i will test more... and if i cannot resolve it i will ask them
<Trevinho> damn launchpad today is often down
<jcastro> I just saw a mail about it being read only
<Trevinho> However now my greater blocker is this merge https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/bamf/fixes/+merge/65434 but DBO said me few days ago it was looking on it, so I just wait
<jcastro> now would be a good day to poke him
<DBO> argh
<DBO> right
<jcastro> DBO: hey.
<DBO> okay I do that now
<Trevinho> :)
<jcastro> that's why have these meetings, mostly to shame people
<Trevinho> ehehe... No problem, I can wait
<DBO> oh sweet I was already running this version and didn't know it
<DBO> _1 :)
<DBO> +1
<andyrock> Trevinho, https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/809907
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 809907 in unity "Title fade effect no longer works" [Undecided,New]
<andyrock> Trevinho, this is the bug i was talking about
<Trevinho> andyrock: I'm on it right now
<Trevinho> and I've fixed
<andyrock> Trevinho, great :)
<Trevinho> however, I don't know if it's really a fix since I should rever tomse cimi's work
<Trevinho> I mean, he uses gtk_render to show cairo, but that is not working
<Trevinho> it totally ignores the layout
<andyrock> jcastro, someone can confirm that bug?
<Trevinho> cool DBO :D
<Trevinho> Ehm... No way for us to have the power of confirming and changing status fo the bugs?
<DBO> not that I know of
<jcastro> I am getting the fade effect, but I'm running plain oneiric
<jcastro> I think we can add you guys to ubuntu-bugcontrol
<jcastro> but I am not sure if that will give you the permissions in the upstream unity project
<Trevinho> mh, ok
<Trevinho> however that bug has been introduced by recent cimi's change
<jcastro> I think in progress is ahead of confirmed anyway
<jcastro> lamalex: who manages bug permissions in unity?
<Trevinho> merged in commit 1265
<lamalex> jcastro, i think i have permissions to add people
<lamalex> who needs permissions
<jcastro> lamalex: andyrock and trevino
<jcastro> Trevinho: what's your launchpad nick?
<jcastro> andyrock: hey, next time you do a code review, can you see if launchpad let's you do one by clicking on the buttons?
<Trevinho> jcastro: 3v1n0
<jcastro> someone from LP told me that community people should be able to do code reviews right in launchpad but it will still go through a core dev before being approved
<jcastro> lamalex: and 3v1n0, the worst launchpad nick of all time
<Trevinho> come on... it's nice :P
<andyrock> jcastro, which buto
<andyrock> *buttons?
<Trevinho> just call it "three-vi-n-o" :P
<lamalex> jesus that's a lot of wine
<jcastro> andyrock: under Add Comment you should see a drop down
<jcastro> that has like, comment only, approve, needs fixing, etc.
<jcastro> in a merge proposal
<lamalex> Trevinho, what can't you do that you need?
<lamalex> set priorities?
<andyrock> jcastro, i can see that... :) but someone told me (or i read it somewhere) that i have to add just comments...
<jcastro> yeah that was me
<andyrock> jcastro, but i think we set approve, need fixing etc.
<jcastro> yes
<Trevinho> I've not these powers :P
<andyrock> jcastro, since marco biscaro did it :)
<jcastro> and then it is supposed to leave something like "Approved (community)" or something
<andyrock> jcastro, cool :)
<jcastro> anyway, when we had the session at UDS I didn't know we could do that
<jcastro> so, just use the dropdowns and buttons
<andyrock> btw i can set the status of a bug
<andyrock> but i cannot set the importance of a bug
<jcastro> I think only certain people can set the importance?
<jcastro> not sure
<andyrock> jcastro, indeed
<jcastro> Trevinho: do you see a comment box on a merge proposal, like this one for example? https://code.launchpad.net/~apinheiro/unity/a11y-replace-gconf/+merge/67869
<Trevinho> yep
<jcastro> ok so the idea is to do code review of other people's merge proposals
<jcastro> do you see a dropdown at the bottom of the box? Review: Comment only, etc.
<lamalex> cdbs, do you remember what team i had to add you to for setting priorities on bugs?
<andyrock> yup
<jcastro> Trevinho: basically, you can just start doing reviews of other merge proposals
<jcastro> Trevinho: I think I even assigned you a work item to do one, heheh.
<Trevinho> :)
<andyrock> Trevinho, doing reviews is so boring :)
<jcastro> actually
<jcastro> I have an idea
<jcastro> since the reviews were so backed up
<Trevinho> Well, I already did for other projects...
<andyrock> and evil :)
<Trevinho> it's an important thing however ;)
<jcastro> maybe you guys could crank em up a bit so by the time they get to njpatel/DBO you've all peer reviewed each other
<jcastro> that would probably catch a bunch of stuff
<Trevinho> mh, ok...
<andyrock> Trevinho, don't review my code... you are evil and you hate me :)
<Trevinho> jcastro: will I receive a notification for assigned reviews (since you said you did that)?
<jcastro> I don't think you can assign a person to individual reviews can you?
<Trevinho> andyrock: you know that you're saying something that is totally untrue
<Trevinho> Yes, you can specify a person to get an opinion /review
<andyrock> jcastro, of course you can :)
<andyrock> Trevinho, i know <3 <3 :)
<jcastro> ok I don't know where in the UI that is
<lamalex> cdbs, can you even set bug priorities
<jcastro> unless it shows you when you initially publish your branch
<Trevinho> andyrock, jcastro: however that can be done only by the one who is asking the merge
<Trevinho> we can't do it
<jcastro> oh ok
<jcastro> so what you can do in the mean time
<jcastro> https://code.launchpad.net/unity/+activereviews
<jcastro> bookmark that
<jcastro> and then if you see someone with "None", do a review
<Trevinho> andyrock: https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/unity/opengl-version-check/+merge/67867 :D
<andyrock> Trevinho, no linked bug?
<jcastro> I wonder if LP tracks whose is doing the most reviews in a project.
<jcastro> then we can flame the bottom 5 people
<Trevinho> :D
<andyrock> jcastro, https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/unity/opengl-version-check/+merge/67867
<andyrock> looks good
<andyrock> i have to use the button?
<jcastro> andyrock: ok leave a comment and select approve
<jcastro> let's see what happens
<andyrock> done
<andyrock> Trevinho, do you know something about launcher icon animations?
<Trevinho> No, I never looked to them
<andyrock> :'(
<andyrock> Trevinho, you have natty right? https://code.launchpad.net/~vanvugt/unity/fix-687567-unity3.0/+merge/67816
<andyrock> Trevinho, njpatel love it, but i cannot test...
<andyrock> *loves
<andyrock> *he
<Trevinho> andyrock: yes I have natty
<andyrock> Trevinho, test it then... :)
<Trevinho> Ok, however I don't have these flickering... :P
<Trevinho> andyrock: And... I've natty, but I'm using trunk unity
<Trevinho> Is that against trunk?
<Trevinho> Ah, ok... However I can test it with old code too...
<andyrock> Trevinho, sorry for the delay... it if for unity 3.0 branch
#ayatana 2011-07-14
<andyrock> good morning
<MacSlow> hey there everybody
<andyrock> Trevinho, around?
<kamstrup> njpatel: I merged the Dee desc collator branch from kenvandine, so lp:gwibber can build with lp:dee trunk now
<njpatel> sweet
<andyrock> smspillaz, around?
<andyrock> smspillaz, about this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/810315
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 810315 in unity (Ubuntu) "scale pluging doesn't work as desired when "Click Desktop To Show Desktop" is true" [Undecided,In progress]
<andyrock> smspillaz, you will read it when you are free... can you tell me it this is a possible solution?
<andyrock> https://code.launchpad.net/~andyrock/unity/810315/+merge/67928
<andyrock> maybe it triggers other problems... i don't kwnow :) you are the genius
<smspillaz> andyrock: best to ask Jason that one
<smspillaz> andyrock: erm, DBO
<smspillaz> andyrock: though, I think you'll need to hook the signal for scale triggering
<smspillaz> errm except that I don't know if the scale plugin actually updates the input window if the struts change
<smspillaz> let me check
<andyrock> smspillaz, it works for me :)
<smspillaz> andyrock: hrm, are you sure it's actually taking the workarea size into account?
<smspillaz> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~compiz-team/compiz-core/0.9.5/view/head:/plugins/scale/src/scale.cpp#L999
<andyrock> smspillaz, try my branch first... for me it works, try you too
<smspillaz> right, though it's a bit of a strange solution
<smspillaz> I'll try it though, nonetheless
<andyrock> i know this is strange, but it is just a workaround...
<smspillaz> andyrock: right, but I don't see anything in the scale plugin which actually takes into account the _NET_WM_STRUT of other windows when creating the dnd target window
<andyrock> smspillaz, maybe i'm wrong
<smspillaz> it just does dndTarget = XCreateWindow () ... XMoveResizeWindow (dndTarget, 0, 0, screen->width (), screen->height ()); XMapRaised (dndTarget)
<andyrock> maybe i'm right
<smspillaz> andyrock: well it's not that you're /wrong/, its more that I don't quite understand what this branch is doing :)
<andyrock> but let me explain
<smspillaz> what *might* be happening is that when you set the strut ::updateAttributes gets called and the launcher gets stacked on top of the dnd target window
<andyrock> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~compiz-team/compiz-core/0.9.5/view/head:/plugins/scale/src/scale.cpp#L1444
<andyrock> look to line: 1469
<smspillaz> ah, that
<smspillaz> ahh ok, that makes sense
<smspillaz> yeah, that kind of works, through some rather implicit magic in unity itself :)
<andyrock> smspillaz, so approve or reject? :)
<smspillaz> andyrock: so basically, your branch will work 99% of the time with a race condition that will happen if the user toggles scale and then clicks again instantly
<smspillaz> (because we're waiting on a round-event trip from X to get screen->workArea () up to date
<smspillaz> (though, really, in compiz we should just store everything we send to the server twice, once for last_sent once for last_recv, it's race condition madness)
<smspillaz> andyrock: I'm just going to test it briefly to make sure that there aren't any cases where the struts stay on
<andyrock> smspillaz, ok...
<smspillaz> (need to rebuild compiz for something else too)
<smspillaz> andyrock: thanks for looking into this though
<jjardon> Hi, gnome-contorl-center doesnt show any panel here, Is it a known bug?
<jjardon> mpt: I updated a new screenchot of the power settings panel: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BatteryStatusMenu Do we want to make modifications against this new design?
<jcastro> omg
<jcastro> njpatel: did daniel van vugt fix the flashing white menus?
<mpt> jjardon, is that the pure upstream one?
<njpatel> jcastro, yep, merged too
<jjardon> mpt: yeah
<jjardon> mpt: more upstream designs here: http://live.gnome.org/Design/SystemSettings/Power#Concepts
<mpt> jjardon, ok, working on a new sketch for you now
<mpt> I guess we need to collapse those menu-related radio buttons into a menu or something
<jjardon> tedg: Hey, can I have another package with the modifications of this week? I think Its feature complete now
<jjardon> mpt: Id like to know your feelings about the power indicator after ^
<jjardon> tedg: Should I send a message for testing (I only have one power source) to ayatana-dev or ubuntu-dev ?
<tedg> jjardon, Yes, a release today would be good.
<tedg> jjardon, I'd actually send it to ubuntu-desktop
<andyrock> how can i revert a bzr revision?
<tedg> jjardon, Probably more people there willing to test desktop-y stuff.
<tedg> andyrock, bzr uncommit
<tedg> andyrock, or bzr revert if you haven't committed.
<andyrock> tedg, using bzr uncommit no file is changed...
<tedg> andyrock, bzr visualize <- you need bzr-gtk but it can show you what's happening.
<andyrock> tedg, i have already resolved :)
<andyrock> tedg, thx :) btw bzr revert
<tedg> jjardon, Also, do you have a list of icons that I can forward on to design?
<jjardon> tedg: After some investigation seems that all the icons are already in the default theme
<jjardon> tedg: I'm using GIcons now so the icon is adapted to the curren theme
<tedg> jjardon, Oh, I thought some of them were missing.
<jjardon> Anyway I'm going to note it in the mail to ubuntu-desktop
<tedg> jjardon, Cool.
<mpt> jjardon, design done, I'm writing it up now
<mpt> jjardon, I'm proposing to move the "Show: Icon only / Icon and time remaining" radio buttons into the menu itself, as a "Show Time in Menu Bar" checkmark item above "Power Settingsâ¦"
<mpt> and then the other radio buttons are condensed down to a radio menu in the settings panel
<API> lamalex, btw, I added you on two of my a11y related branches?
<API> I mean to review them
<API> it is ok or should I assign them to other people?
<jjardon> mpt: yeah, I already moved them to the indicator menu
<jjardon> mpt: thanks!
<lamalex> API, no that's fine
<lamalex> i'll review them today
<API> lamalex, ok
<lamalex> thanks for the reminder
<API> as rodrigo is not assigned to a11y tasks anymore I was not sure
<API> btw, it is required two reviewers or it is enough with just one?
<API> I'm not sure about the policy here
<jjardon> tedg: https://launchpad.net/indicator-power/trunk/0.3
<tedg> jjardon, Thanks!  kenvandine ^
<kenvandine> jjardon, cool
<andyrock> danm, i still have the flash blank menu bug
<mpt> jjardon, done: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Power?action=diff&rev2=19&rev1=18
<mpt> jjardon, on a related topic, JohnLea just told me about how we're disabling Suspend and Hibernate unless either (a) the hardware is certified/Friendly or (b) you override them in ... the Power settings. Are you familiar with this plan?
<kenvandine> jjardon, please tag releases in bzr
<kenvandine> jjardon, furture releases that is... unless you want to go back and figure out the revisions for each release and tag those
<tedg> jderose, Hey, I was talking with njpatel about novacut, he was curious if you guys were planning on talking to the platform libraries, or just doing everything in HTML.
<jderose> tedg: bit of both... main editor UI will be embedded webkit if possible... but we always what to integrate with notifyOSD, application indicators, etc
 * Nafai is excited for novacut, even though he isn't exactly the target audience
<tedg> jderose, Do you have any idea how you're going to do that?
<jderose> tedg: some place we might use something besides webkit, maybe gtk or qml
<tedg> jderose, Ah, so you're not planning on doing that in JS inside the Webkit instance.
<tedg> Have some sort of "wrapper" or something?
<jderose> tedg: so the tricky thing we still need to figure out is we need something like a <video> element, except gstreamer draws raw video there from render server
<tedg> Honestly, we're trying to figure out how people want to use those libraries and interfaces.
<jderose> ah, gotcha
<MacSlow> jderose, do you have test-cases for doing UI in webkit under heavy system-load? I'm not sure the UI will stay responsive.
<jderose> tedg: so aside from needing render server to draw raw video, all webkit does it talk to couchdb - http://cdn.novacut.com/couchone-guest.html
<MacSlow> jderose, that's just me always having a bad feeling about everything ;)
<tedg> jderose, Okay, so you're using Webkit more like a canvas.
<njpatel> jderose, so you talk to the platform outside of the webkit container and just signal between the two?
<njpatel> jderose, also, Hi! :)
<jderose> MacSlow: experiments thus far suggest it will be okay, but stuff is fairly simple still
<jderose> hi njpatel, people have told me you fix things, whatever it is :)
<jderose> njpatel: sorry, bit tired, had to digest your question a bit... :)
<MacSlow> jderose, but the UI will run as its own process... right... not in the browser?!
<jderose> njpatel: aside from <video> trick, we don't talk to platform at all... only to desktopcouch, directly from webkit with ajax (awesome fast, BTW)
<jderose> MacSlow: yup, UI runs in own process, in embedded webit in GTK window
<njpatel> jderose, yes, I fix some stuff time-to-time :)
<tedg> So asking a slightly tangential question, jderose, if you could let's say send a notification in the JS side of things, would that useful?  Or is that something that just doesn't make sense?
<njpatel> jderose, interesting, I think I need to think about it a bit more, I'm sure I have a whole list of questions to ask :)
<jderose> tedg: yeah, that could probably be useful, although haven't thought of burning need just yet
<jderose> njpatel: watch out, i might come back with a list of things to fix! :P
 * tedg hides
<jderose> hehe
<jderose> so how you all doing?  how's oneiric work going?
<tedg> jderose, It's keeping us busy :-)  No big surprises, but that's a good thing.
<njpatel> jderose, busy busy
<jderose> njpatel: see, that's what you get for fixing thing! :)
<njpatel> indeed :)
<tedg> We just curse every day that kamstrup went on paternity leave.  We're buying him condoms when he gets back :-)
<jderose> tedg: so is it a bit less hectic than last cycle?  you guys flew in N
<tedg> jderose, Yes, a bit.  But it's always one of those things where 10% of the features are 90% of the work.  So less noticeable stuff, but still a bunch of detail work.
<MacSlow> jderose, flying is still to come I guess... although I'm taking a detour in NotifyOSD-land atm
<MacSlow> jderose, everybody is fighting their typical battles :)
<jderose> yeah, i could tell you've all been extra busy last month or so... or maybe lots of people on vacation, one of the two :)
<Nafai> I can't wait to try out the new gwibber stuff
<Nafai> I might drop tweetdeck
<njpatel> Nafai, it's rough but getting there
<jderose> njpatel: saw the video, looks really cool
<njpatel> jderose, thanks :)
<Nafai> yeah, the video excited me :)
<njpatel> it's nicer in real life, without gtk-recordmydesktop messing up the framerate :)
<jderose> hehe
<andyrock> JohnLea, around?
<andyrock> JohnLea, in already merged branch we have this notifacation: http://twitpic.com/5q40yg
<kim0> Hi, is there an indicator for bluetooth?
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> my new laptop doesn't have BT though, so I haven't seen it in a while
<bratsche> What's your new laptop?
<kim0> jcastro: mm I can't see it .. apt-cache search indicator | grep tooth
<jcastro> are you on 11.04?
<jcastro> or 11.10?
<kim0> 10
<kim0> on unity 2d atm though
<kim0> jcastro: if u can find that indicator, let me know .. I use bt a lot :)
<jcastro> hmmm
<jcastro> it's always just worked for me in 11.04, it's part of the standard bluetooth thing
<kim0> is there a way to add / remove indicators
<kim0> or is it .. I just install them and they appear
<lamalex> DBO, i'm reinstalling O
<DBO> lamalex, reasons?
<lamalex> nvidia was hosed, was workin on it with sarvatt but it ended up being easier to start fresh
<lamalex> my touchpad was whacked out, linker kept doing weird things, it needed done anyway
#ayatana 2011-07-15
 * antigravedad is away: Estoy ocupado
<jono> kenvandine, yo
<jono> any idea when your sexy new gwibber will land in Oneiric?
<kenvandine> jono, i hope tonight
<kenvandine> well upload tonight
<kenvandine> will have to go through binNEW tomorrow
<jono> kenvandine, awesome :-)
<kenvandine> planned to do it this morning
<kenvandine> but my backlog grew pretty fast today :)
<kenvandine> speaking of which... tedg... you around?
 * antigravedad is back (gone 00:17:48)
<carlix> hello
<carlix> wath is your opinion of unity?
<carlix> hello>
<carlix> jujuuuu
<thumper> heh, no staying power
<oSoMoN> good morning
<evfool> does anyone know how customizable will Oneiric be? with gnome3, it won't have anything to change gtk themes, window borders, screensavers, etc
<MacSlow> ola
<JohnLea> andyrock; thanks for sending the pic over, it looks good to me ;-)
<jjardon> mpt: thanks for the power wiki updates
<jjardon> mpt: one question, how Can we know what hardware is certified/validated? is there a package with the database?
<mpt> jjardon, I don't know, sorry. JohnLea has been working with Jason Warner on this, so I suggest starting there.
<jjardon> mpt: Also, I'm not very sure this is the correct level to achieve this. I mean, suspend should work out-of-the-box. If not, Its a kernel bug
<mpt> jjardon, as I understand it, every new PC model risks having a new variety of the bug. So while it is a kernel bug, it's not one that can be made less frequent over time, except by more vendors doing certification.
<lamalex> DBO: njpatel_ working out some issues with lightdm so i can get back up and running
<lamalex> njpatel_: i'll never forgive you for making us upgrade
<njpatel_> lamalex, I love you too
<lamalex> njpatel_: when does iteration 3 start up?
<njpatel_> lamalex, next week
<lamalex> sweet
<lamalex> anyone know how to change my default display manager from lightdm to gdm?
<njpatel_> lamalex, sudo dpkg-reconfigure gdm
<lamalex> that's the command
<lamalex> was trying to find --reconfigure
<njpatel_> I think it used to be something like that
<njpatel_> but I might be wrong...I tried the same thing just now
<lamalex> yah, that's right
<lamalex> hm where are all of the french?
<andyrock> MacSlow, around?
<lamalex> it's not 14 de julliet anymore guys
<MacSlow> andyrock, yup
<andyrock> MacSlow, do you remember the branch lo let trash icon pulse? :)
<MacSlow> andyrock, yes... were you able to fix it/make it work?
<andyrock> MacSlow, mmm no :) i have a question for you...
<andyrock> MacSlow, you dragged a desktop icon (or anything else) or a launcher icon?
<andyrock> launcher icon = unity launcher icon
<MacSlow> andyrock, I dragged desktop-icons as well as launcher (device) icons on it.
<MacSlow> andyrock, didn't pulse in both cases
<andyrock> MacSlow, ok...
<andyrock> thx
<lamalex> njpatel_: are you fully up to date on O?
<njpatel_> lamalex, updated this morning, yeah
<lamalex> hm and no issues?
<njpatel_> lamalex, nope
<lamalex> wtf why is my pc always f'ed up
<njpatel_> i'm on intel, thogh
<lamalex> this doesn't seem like a driver issue
<lamalex> yah, nvidia is loaded up fine
<lamalex> this seems /win 4
<lamalex> whoops
<MacSlow> lamalex, I'm usually the one who suffers in the most bizzare ways during updates.
<MacSlow> lamalex, didn't pull this week yet... will wait after my working day is over... just to be on the save side :)
<lamalex> :)
<lamalex> i just want to get into X D:
<lamalex> this tty business is for the birds
<lamalex> it's weird
<lamalex> lightdm starts
<lamalex> but when i try to log in it hangs
<c10ud> had that too a few days ago in oneiric, reboot in recovery shell with net support, apt-get update && upgrade, fixed (intel i945)
<lamalex> c10ud: yah, i have fully up to date system
<lamalex> it looks like something in the upgrade is botched though
<lamalex> man where are didrocks and seb
<lamalex> http://paste.ubuntu.com/644783
<lamalex> DBO: you're on maverick right?
<DBO> lamalex, no
<lamalex> ach really? you went to O?
<smoser> anyone else see bug 811052 ?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 811052 in unity (Ubuntu) "black screen on top of first monitor and all of second" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/811052
<smoser> i see it 100% of the time, and i thikn i've seen it since natty ( currently on oneiric as of "right now")
<smoser> DBO, does ^ ring any bells to you?
<DBO> looking at your bug report
<DBO> hold up
<DBO> on an intel card no less...
<DBO> we had a bug like this before
<DBO> but I thought it was fixed
<DBO> I'll make sure the right people see this, aka jay
<DBO> smoser, could you check that it only happens in compiz with unity loaded?
<smoser> i was afraid you were going to ask that.
<smoser> :)
<smoser> how would i do that.
<smoser> i did verify doesn't happen with sawfish as window manager, but realized that wasnt 3d
<smoser> DBO, ^ how do i do that?
<DBO> smoser, log into a classic session
<smoser> ok.
<smoser> DBO, just verified it does not occur
<DBO> smoser, can you add that to the bug report?
<smoser> did
<smoser> gnome-shell, right?
<kenvandine> ronoc, should the user menu actually do anything when clicked?
<kenvandine> well, i guess is it a menu at all?
<kenvandine> or just displays your name?
<ronoc> kenvandine, no it should show you the other users that registered
<ronoc> and allow you swap between them
<kenvandine> ok... not seeing that...
<ronoc> it should only show if there are more than one user registered
<ronoc> => if you have only one user it should not show on the panel
<kenvandine> yeah, i added a user to test that
<ronoc> ah something is up then
<kenvandine> is there a new service?
<kenvandine> maybe i missed something in the packaging
<ronoc> nope just the one service
<ronoc> two menus
<ronoc> you sure you replaced the old session service with the new one
<kenvandine> yup
<ronoc> i need to work with Harry for a little bit
<ronoc> will have to wait until Monday I'm afraid
<ronoc> before i get to look at it
<kenvandine> no worries
<kenvandine> it works from the indicator loader
<kenvandine> just not in unity.. :/
<mterry> Heyo!  I noticed that with the new compiz modal dialog support, windows with modal dialogs are no longer visible to a11y frameworks like ldtp.  Looking for help tracking down why.  TheMuso, DBO?
<DBO> smspillaz, ^^
<smspillaz> DBO: I'm not sure why that would be ... file a bug and I'll track it down I guess
<smspillaz> mterry: I'm not sure why that would be
<smspillaz> mterry: its windows that *have* modal dialogs or windows that are modal dialogs ?
<mterry> smspillaz, both.  I have a window that is visible to ldtp.  Then it opens a modal dialog, and I can't see either in ldtp
<smspillaz> lovely
<smspillaz> let me have a look at it then
<mterry> smspillaz, uh, i should mention that I'm using gtk+ trunk which has rewritten a11y support...
<mterry> Haven't tried on non-trunk to see if it happens there too
<smspillaz> okay
<smspillaz> it seems like ldtp is coredumping here ...
<mterry> smspillaz, https://launchpad.net/~ricotz/+archive/staging/+packages has trunk packages
<mterry> smspillaz, oh?  A  LookupError?
<mterry> That's ignorable if so
<mterry> I filed a bug, not sure what's going on there
<mterry> gotta go, smspillaz, but can help with this as needed on monday
<hiatus_> has anyone made a old fashioned menu for unity yet?
#ayatana 2011-07-16
<ninjaaron> So, does anyone know where I can find instructions on re-theming the unity panel/menu bar for gtk?
<sunnysigara> help
<coz_> hey all
<Omega> hey
#ayatana 2011-07-17
<Bacta> Couple of questions
<Bacta> I dislike how my program menus are attached to the top of my screen even if the app isn't running fullscreen - how can I fix that?
<Bacta> And how can I move the bar from the left to the bottom of my screen?
<hicham> i think removing appmenu would be ok
<jo-erlend> uhm... I'm playing with quickly.widgets.dictionary_grid.DictionaryGrid. When I set it to be reorderable, then when I reorder rows, the Unity launcher is displayed until I stop dragging the row.. How come?
<jo-erlend> and can you reproduce it?
<htorque> jo-erlend: there are a couple of actions that unhide the launcher, afaik there's a bug report somewhere
<htorque> jo-erlend: bug 724986
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 724986 in unity (Ubuntu) "Launcher reveals when customizing Firefox" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/724986
<jo-erlend> weird.
<Guy> hello
<Guest99978> is anyone here?
<RAOF> Yes, but for many people it'll be Sunday evening.
