#ubuntu-on-air 2012-11-12
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-on-air 2012-11-13
<dholbach> good morning
<marcoceppi> good morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey marcoceppi
<dholbach> marcoceppi, did you just say Hi or was that a "your hangout starts soon" ping?
<dholbach> I'm not sure if I ended up the calendar already, because this week I won't get around to doing hangouts :)
<marcoceppi> I just said hi, because the last 8 days you've said good morning and it seems like no one has replied :)
<dholbach> :-)
 * dholbach hugs marcoceppi
#ubuntu-on-air 2012-11-14
<dholbach> good morning
<marcoceppi> good morning dholbach o/
<dholbach> hi marcoceppi :)
#ubuntu-on-air 2012-11-15
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-on-air 2012-11-16
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-on-air 2013-11-12
<dholbach> good morning
<khalidzuhd> hello world
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-on-air to: Welcome to Ubuntu on Air! || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/OWD4uc || Ask your questions at ubuntuonair.com || Follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/UbuntuOnAir || Subscribe to our YouTube Channel: http://youtube.com/UbuntuOnAir || Current Session: Jono Bacon Q&A - Speakers: jono
<khalidzuhd> when will we start ?
<AirBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/11/12/%23ubuntu-on-air.html following the conclusion of the session.
<Remington> Never!
<theadmin> Hello jono, it's wÃ¶rking
<Remington> I see you
<aoi> i see you!!
<PopcornMaker> I see and hear you
<bkerensa> jono: Awww
<Remington> I see and hear you
<khalidzuhd> hello
<dave753> i see you
<c00dex306> c & hear u
<RichieSVK> Hi all
<debrisrat> hi !
<khalidzuhd> hello
<Mark___> It is working here
<diazepan>  hi
<khalidzuhd> can you give me the google + hangout link ?
<debrisrat> what is  ubuntu on air ?? khalidzuhd
<Oli_Mo> hey guys :D we all love ubuntu right? :D
<khalidzuhd> i dont know
<PopcornMaker> QUESTION: Whenever i look over at ubuntu.com i only see that Ubuntu Touch only is available for developers. When will i be able to download and instal it on my device?
<theadmin> PopcornMaker: You can now! See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install
<khalidzuhd> can you introduse your self
<debrisrat> thank you ! :)
<khalidzuhd> who are you ?
<Guest54880> Yup we see you!
<ShippD> Question Did you get the noisy chair fixed...lol sorry had to ask...lol
<micah2> Nice shirt, Jono!
<khalidzuhd>  who are you ?
<theadmin> QUESTION: What's the status on MIR? I know it didn't make its' way into Saucy, but will it be in Trusty, or is that still not certain?
<Mark___> QUESTION: When is there going to be a Ubuntu tablet released?
<Levan> #Question] Are you planning to add Email client to ubuntu touch, and will we ever be able to just install desktop apps on ubuntu touch cell phones ??
<sh2515> quick link to indiegogo linux voice magazine.
<po1arity> QUESTION: is chrome going to be the default browser from now on?
<noname_> QUESTION: When can i buy a device with Ubuntu TV on it?
<micah2> Question: I've heard that the Canonical designers are discussing how to make sure Ubuntu Phone users know when apps have menu toolbars hidden away. I have some thoughts on the topic and have coded up a basic example of how I think things might work well, what is the best way to make my suggestions available for consideration by the right people?
<Mark___> QUESTION: There have a lot of information being collected on people (NSA, Android, Google, Yahoo, Microsoft) What is Ubuntu doing to protect Ubuntu users?
<sh2515> QUESTION well a quick link to the indiegogo funding linuxvoice.com. a new magazine from the editors of linux format
<blues_> QUESTION:  Who is responsable for the management of our account.  I mean I have software that do not re-install because I change my username and email and I cannot buy it again because it is already tag purchased in my account.  I don't mind to rebuy but there is no tools to manage account.
 * mhall119 is running Mir+XMir on 13.10
<this_is_not_myni> QUESTION: were you surprised that steam built is own OS instead of working with ubuntu?
<sh2515> QUESTION What will be the compatibility issues between distros when the split of mir and weyland occur?
<rstreeter> QUESTION: Will the web browser app replace firefox?
<rich123> QUESTION: Since Mir is being introduced, will we be unable to install graphics drivers the same way?
<menotyou> QUESTION: Has work started to get ubuntu on Nexus 5?
<Markcortbass> QUESTION: Is it possible to run 'normal desktop/X86,X64' apps on a Ubuntu Touch tablet?
<Levan> QUESTION: I had a problem with ubuntu touch some aps are not full screen on nexus like camera app when will it be fixed
<theadmin> Levan: This is not a support channel, please visit #ubuntu-touch
<PopcornMaker> QUESTION: Are you going to work with ubuntu touch on the Nexus 5? Would be epic having that power house with ubuntu touch.
<khalidzuhd> when will ubuntu add tools to mange power and screen for laptops
<ahmed__> i am from pakistan
<ahmed__> the videi link is of youtube, which is banned in pakistan
<ahmed__> any alternative video link??
<e8hffff> Can Ubuntu-Touch display pdf eBooks yet and cen they be launched from the file browser.  What's the news to when if not?
<Levan>  <theadmin> I think it is just how it is written not a problem with my install
<theadmin> ahmed__: Unfortunately not, it's a live video
<BostonFaith> hi
<Levan> QUESTION: what is the next step for ubuntu Dash and how is the consent of new software center cumming ??
<theadmin> QUESTIONS: What, in your opinion, is the best way to convince a Windows/OSX user to try Ubuntu? Do you yourself try to "convert" users to Linux?
<DS_McGuire> QUESTION: Yo Jono, on unity 8 would light DM be used?
<Levan> Sorry if any one read my last question I misspelled a word sorry for that
<FlyingPig> QUESTION: What's Valves opinion on Mir or Wayland?
<aoi> QUESTION: i found out that many people like to use ubuntu as a replacement for windows but the office is not that great they said, are you going to upgrade libreoffice to beat microsoft office?
<Markcortbass> Thank you very much Jono!
<Levan> there is a libreofice android app
<ahayzen> QUESTION: What is your favourite app on Ubuntu Touch and what is your favourite innovation in Ubuntu Touch?
<theadmin> aoi: LibreOffice isn't developed by the Ubuntu team, sadly.
<theadmin> aoi: I hear Microsoft are working on a Linux version of their Office though
<linux-user> Microsoft Office for Linux ha, ha, ha....
<rstreeter> QUESTION:What do you think of the Project Community Computers?
<this_is_not_my_n> QUESTION: systemd and upstart is quite hot topic on debian, what do you think will be the impact if they go with systemd?
<aoi> QUESTION: is there an ebook for manual of terminal in ubuntu? id like to share it to my friends
<DS_McGuire> QUESTION:  Is it still true that there will be Ubuntu hardware shipping next year for the phone/tablet? The CEO said that this was true however it was said during the Edge campaign so it caused some  confusion.
<Levan> QUESTION: Will we get a new software center soon for desktop ?? or no more software center at all even on desktop ??
<DS_McGuire> QUESTION: If there is only going to be scopes instead of the Software Centre (which is a good idea) how would users go about discovering new apps?
<khalidzuhd> what is the next step of ubuntu to support new app ?
<e8hffff> QUESTION: Can Ubuntu-Touch display pdf eBooks yet and cen they be launched from the file browser.  What's the news to when if not?
<luigixl> ----Â» keep ubuntu deacktop free, in the future ubuntu will be the most used OS..
<khalidzuhd> why ubuntu is not rolling destrow ?
<Levan> Libreoffice is garbage if it would cost a cent no one would use it you can not find any thing in it
<theadmin> Levan: That might be your opinion. I find LibreOffice more comfortable than Microsoft one.
<luigixl>  Question! Have you heard about minix 3, if you did what you think about it?
<theadmin> QUESTION: What are you drinking there? :D
<Levan> <theadmin> I know but the people like me are used to ms office it is dreadful experience I have asked this question to more then 10 people and same answer it is good that it is free but more the that no
<Andres_Botero> QUESTION: Will adobe packages (phtoshop, indesign etc) run in Ubuntu in an standar way as they do in windows and mac? I mean without running wine or such. That's one of the reasons I have to keep using windows sometimes
<theadmin> Andres_Botero: You'd have to ask Adobe.
<theadmin> Levan: I have the same problem with MS Office -- I can't find anything :D Matter of habit really.
<e8hffff> FU
<Levan> <theadmin> i Understand :)
<this_is_not_my_n> QUESTION: any news about nvdia/amd/intel support on mir?
<derricolator> Will there be a port of ubuntu for phones to samsungs galaxy s3 mini
<this_is_not_my_n> QUESTION: does that new software center will enter into trusty thar?
<rstreeter> QUESTION: How was your anniversary? Congrats man.
<luigixl> so no knowledge about minix 3 ?
<RobbieNor> QUESTION: Are 'Uubntu Accomplishments' they still in development? If so, when can we expect them to land in a release?
<Levan> QUESTION: are you planning to make ubuntu touch lighter on resources, just like ubuntu is for pc every one can run it or ubuntu touch will be for premium market only ??
<Levan> congratulation
<ttoine> QUESTION: what is your feeling about Ubuntu Studio ?
<theadmin> QUESTION: Is Ubuntu looking to support more desktop environments? A lot of new stuff like Cinnamon and MATE appeared recently, and I was wondering if there will be Ubuntu editions using those. I apologize if Canonical isn't responsible for editions with other desktops, not too familiar with the infrastructure.
<Levan> QUESTION: what kind of PIE do you love
<snwh> QUESTION: what does the fox say?
<PhillWoob> As a web developer I am interesting movment to PCI complient web servers out of the box. From Phill B your old mate from uni
<micah2> Question: Do you know what the tradeoffs will be between developing Ubuntu SDK apps in Javascript vs golang?
<ttoine> it's a shame you didn't try it for a long time
<DS_McGuire> QUESTION: Personally... Don't you think the low end would be a better area to compete in because of the lack of major competition?
<jono> http://www.gofundme.com/rockforwater
<Levan> QUESTION: will you play ?? if yes did you fix the sound system, ??
<rstreeter> QUESTION: What was the deal with the fixubuntu and the logo?
<jono> badvoltage.org
<ttoine> rockforwater.com ?
<jono> http://www.gofundme.com/rockforwater
<ttoine> thanks
<Ch_Braun> hola
<jono> http://www.jonobacon.org/creative/
<leedev> QUESTION: Could you type the link to your music in the chat?  I have no idea what you said it was.
<ttoine> thank you for the links
<AlanBell> QUESTION: (shameless plug) have you seen this campaign to build Ubuntu for the Raspberry Pi? http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/a-raspberry-pi-build-cluster-for-ubuntu/x/5206923
<theadmin> leedev: http://www.gofundme.com/rockforwater http://www.jonobacon.org/creative/ and http://badvoltage.org were the links he mentioned.
<DS_McGuire> QUESTION: We have recently heard that Nokia's HERE mapping platform will be powering Tizen, what are  the plans for the maps? Will we a deal like that any time soon.
<leedev> theadmin, thank you
<PhillWoob> Question: PCI Compliant out of the box web servers?
<snwh> QUESTION: what if ubuntu mobile is a giant industry flop?
<pulu90> yes quitarrrrr
<Levan> Play please
<Hobuntu> play some guitar
<snwh> i wasted a question with "what does the fox say", what a fool.
<theadmin> snwh: Can still ask some :D
<khalidzuhd> later
<AlanBell> snwh: I don't think it was a waste :)
<Hobuntu> who are you admin?
<snwh> i generally ask silly questions
<snwh> :)
<AlanBell> this bit is still broken https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libunity/+bug/1250134
<theadmin> Hobuntu: Just a user, is all.
<theadmin> Hobuntu: With a silly nickname :)
<Hobuntu> okay
<ryanprior> QUESTION how come we don't have Unity overlay scroll-bars for Firefox, Chrome, GNU EMACS, LibreOffice? Surely Canonical folks use these apps a lot?
<ryanprior> QUESTION are you still working towards the system-level support for tabs, with major changes to the alt-tab interface to respect the internal information organization within Ubuntu apps? The mockups shown a while ago looked great for Desktop, and the idea seems even better on mobile.
<micah2> FYI: micah2 != Micah Lee
<micah2> micah2 == Micah Losli
<jamvaru> there is always an asshat in every situation
<snwh> ..he knows the guy who got fired from the trademarks team ;)
<popey> nobody was fired
<mhall119> jamvaru: not an asshat, just somebody who assumed the worst
<ryanprior> it's a legal e-mail, you're saying somebody's not supposed to take your lawyers' correspondence seriously?
<popey> from a cannon
<jamvaru> there u go
<AlanBell> ryanprior: a paralegal is not a lawyer
<ryanprior> AlanBell: fair point, doesn't he or she still represent a legal aparatus?
<mhall119> ryanprior: nobody is saying that
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-on-air to: Welcome to Ubuntu on Air! || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/OWD4uc || Ask your questions at ubuntuonair.com || Follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/UbuntuOnAir || Subscribe to our YouTube Channel: http://youtube.com/UbuntuOnAir ||
<AlanBell> Canonical's lawyers are much scarier. We got a letter from them once
<mhall119> only that assumptions were made about the intention of the letter that were not accurate
<snwh> legal documents are always intimidating
<ryanprior> don't Canonical's paralegals operate with supervision from their licensed legal representation?
<AlanBell> no
<mhall119> ryanprior: yes it was a legal letter
<ryanprior> AlanBell: that's interesting. counterintuitive from what I'd expect, but that's often true when it comes to legal matters.
<mhall119> it's fine that he contacted the EFF's lawyers
<jamvaru> paralegals can be held accountable for their actions like a lawyer can be
<ryanprior> jamvaru: I'd hope that would be true. And if a paralegal offers a legal opinion ("your website infringes a trademark") without being undersigned by a licensed attorney, isn't that a crime in itself? practicing law without proper license?
<AlanBell> it is more of a qualification, someone who has had a certain amount of legal training but is not a lawyer
<PhillWoob> Im starting a brand called tunbu
<mhall119> ryanprior: it wasn't practicing law
<snwh> i already have my Emu Bun Tubas at emubuntubas.com
<jamvaru> im sure letterhead is enough to establish accoutability
<popey> \o/ legal speculation
<PhillWoob> bed time is it
<Levan> no music ??
<Levan> too bad
<Hobuntu> guitar
<DS_McGuire> Till next time Jono!
<Levan> Take care and good luck
<khalidzuhd> what is the next step of ubuntu to support new app ?
<khalidzuhd> why ubuntu is not rolling destrow ?
<mhall119> khalidzuhd: can you expand on your question about supporting new apps?
<leedev> it is a rolling disto to me
<newbreaker12> w can see you^^
<OkTa> ur comeing through loud and clear down here in little old new zealand
<OkTa> QUESTION  will there be support for windows games (old and new) on Ubuntu?
#ubuntu-on-air 2013-11-13
<bjh_> ?
<bjh_> ?
<bjh_> hey jono
<bjh_> are you here?
<opiwahn> hello jono. do you record music using ubuntu?
<jono> opiwahn, no, I record it on a Mac
<jono> I have a pretty complex studio setup
<opiwahn> Ok, thanks for the info. I also running Ubuntu for all things, except audio recording..  but I am waiting for the day I do not need logic/cubase anymore :-) Have a great day.
<dholbach> good morning
<leedev> Weekly Juju Charm Update
<leedev> When
<leedev> Wed, November 13, 5pm â 6pm
<leedev> Did they end early?
<jono> hey all
<leedev> halo, jono
<med_> very live
<shine_> Heyy Jono...
<nnnn> yup
<MasterRolfe> Jip!
<TheRealModify> yep
<brook> yes i can see yuo^^
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-on-air to: Welcome to Ubuntu on Air! || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/OWD4uc || Ask your questions at ubuntuonair.com || Follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/UbuntuOnAir || Subscribe to our YouTube Channel: http://youtube.com/UbuntuOnAir || Current Session: Weekly Ubuntu Webcast - Speakers: jono, dholbach, mhall119
<nik90> hi jono
<AirBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/11/13/%23ubuntu-on-air.html following the conclusion of the session.
<bbartek> hi Jono :-)
<stoker> How is your son doing?
 * med_ opens 30-40 more windows to pump the viewer count
<mattyw> jono, that's what children are for :)
<med_> looks like a 20-30s lag
<OldDroid> greetings from germany :D
 * nik90 chuckles
<med_> CAKE!
<med_> (tomorrow)
<med_> vUDS next week.
<pcworld> so will Compiz be dismissed when Ubuntu moves to Mir? Or will they port Compiz to Mir?
<eLpm> pcworld: They are going to substitute it with something else.
<mhall119> pcworld: compiz is inherently an X11 window manager, it won't be ported to a non-X11 display server
<mhall119> also, prefix questions with "QUESTION: " and they'll be highlighted for him
<burdickjp> i don't have audio right now, but will watch the video in the future.  can you talk about why Ubuntu has switched to QT, but hasn't adopted KDE, which has it's own convergence plan and a VERY scalable interface.  As an example, I run KDE on my desktop, and can, with available widgets, exactly duplicate the Unity desktop.  Wouldn't using and contributing to existing projects which are capable be beneficial?
<eLpm> Unity is the DE
<burdickjp> also, nice music room
<mhall119> https://plus.google.com/u/0/communities/111350780270925540549
<mhall119> https://www.facebook.com/ubuntuappdev?ref=hl
<eLpm> burdickjp: Unity is the "convergent" DE, in Canonical
<nik90> burdickjp: it is not just about the visual stuff that matters... we still dont know if KDE will use scopes that unity provides
<eLpm> view
<pcworld> so does Compiz run on XMir? Because they said their main problem was "only" multi-monitor support with XMir
<udit> Question: Do you think its possible to create an API, to convert "Small/Medium" level applications fromAndroid to Ubuntu. I mean to actually provide such a platform so Indie devs can get their apps converted easily or at least a part of it?
<mhall119> https://twitter.com/ubuntuappdev
<eLpm> pcworld: XMir is just X.org
<mhall119> pcworld: yes, compiz runs on XMir
<eLpm> pcworld: Well, on top of Mir, but still
<burdickjp> nik90:  how different is that than being the only distro using unity as a whole?
<pcworld> eLpm: ok, thanks
<nik90> burdickjp: the ubuntu community with canonical have a vision. We shouldn't compromise that just because other distros dont use it
<renebarbosa> Question: which version of GNOME will be used on 14.04? 3.10?
<nik90> burdickjp: Besides Unity is being ported to Arch, Debian
<eLpm> renebarbosa: GNOME 3.8
<pcworld> nik90: really "ported"? Or do you just mean the repo that provides dozens of "Ubuntu-patched" packages?
<jaymartinez> wondering if ubuntu will get native raw support...
<renebarbosa> eLpm: thanks
<jaymartinez> help me dump windows and adobe
<eLpm> renebarbosa: but who knows :)
<burdickjp> nik90: i agree with the vision, but see a different path to it.  When all the functionality can be achieved with current tools, why?
<renebarbosa> eLpm: fully agree.. GNOME 3.10 is really awesome :)
<set__> family > open source ...
<burdickjp> nik90: i'm an arch user :)  the number of patched packages is staggering
<mhall119> He's been reading /r/linux :)
<nik90> burdickjp: +1 to the patches packages.
<nik90> burdickjp: but that should all change when unity 8 lands
<mhall119> maybe not all, but there should be less patching
<nik90> burdickjp: Unity 8 will not depend on mir, wayland or X and should work quite well with upstream QT
<brook> why mi wify on ubuntu is poor than windows7?
<Levan> Wow two live stream in two days
<nnnn> :D
<burdickjp> nik90:  I'm looking forward to it.
<brook> i need to maximize my wifi on ubuntu, any tips?
<pcworld> they don't seem to try too hard to get Unity to work with upstream projects
<nik90> burdickjp: +1
<mhall119> pcworld: upstream project haven't asked for much support
<nik90> pcworld: which upstream are you referring to?
<nik90> pcworld: Gnome wouldnt accept it due to gnome shell. Kde has plasma etc
<nik90> pcworld: so I am wondering who upstream is? Unity -> Ubuntu is its own upstream for the DE
<eLpm> pcworld: the funny thing is that Unity is the upstream here.
<mhall119> we've worked with debian and fedora folks who were building packages for those distros, but we're not pushing it ourselves
<pcworld> eLpm: the projects it *depends* on
<pcworld> https://github.com/chenxiaolong/Unity-for-Arch/blob/master/README
<burdickjp> nik90:  again, why not work in plasma, it has a similar, and matur,e convergence goal?  i don't see how that woild cloud the vision of ubuntu
<pcworld> if I want to install Unity on Arch, it's not really Arch anymore, see linked readme
<Arigator> Is "Mir" going to make managing dual screen setups easier? For example at the moment with Kubuntu 13.04 and an AMD graphics card, I have toï»¿ reboot whenever I apply changes in Catalyst Command Center. Or does this only have to do with the graphics drivers?
<burdickjp> will kubuntu adopt mir?
<mhall119> please start questions with "QUESTION: "
<nik90> burdickjp: frankly I haven't used plasma myself to answer that question
<eLpm> pcworld: yes, Unity depends on GNOME currently and needs lots of patches for GNOME stuff
<nik90> pcworld: many of the packages you list there orginate from ubuntu
<nik90> like unity-lens-*, indicator-*
<nik90> sure there are a few packages such as gtk3-ubuntu which belong to gnome. But upstream gnome reject patches that apply to downstream
<pcworld> nik90: yes, but the need for GTK patches isn't very good
<pcworld> also, ideally one would be able to make a very small Unity install with very few packages, like you can with all other DEs
<eLpm> pcworld: Let's hope Unity 8 fixes this (at least with Unity)
<mhall119> pcworld: agreed, but Unity uses the new GApplication menus now too
<nik90> besides Unity 8 as I mentioned above will fix this
<burdickjp> it sounds like there's quite a bit of upstream and peer project rejection of Ubuntu's vision.  What do you attribute that to?
<nik90> we use upstream Qt strictly
<nik90> patches are being pushed upstream for Qt
<mhall119> nik90: the Gtk patches are to support Gtk apps in Unity, not Unity itself
<nik90> mhall119: oh yeah the application menu etc...
<mhall119> Qt made it easy to export the window's menu over dbus, but Gtk didn't, so we had to patch it
<mhall119> not Gtk has a new system for application-centric menus that exports over dbus, so we can use that without the patches
<pcworld> so is Unity 8 based on Qt only?
<mhall119> but for Gtk apps that don't use the new App menu, we'd still need those gtk patches
<mhall119> pcworld: the shell is, yes
<nik90> pcworld: for the core apps and system apps we used the Ubuntu SDK which in itself is based on Qt
<nik90> the Ubuntu SDK provides custom widgets, themes etc similar to other OS like Jolla etc
<pcworld> lxde-core depends on: lxde-common (>= 0.5.0-4ubuntu4), pcmanfm (>= 0.9.8), lxpanel (>= 0.5.5), openbox (>= 3.4.6.1)
<burdickjp> nik90: but gnome core apps are still used, yes?  such as nautilus
<mhall119> burdickjp: on the desktop yes
<mhall119> not on the phone
<pcworld> unity depends on:compiz-core, libatk-bridge2.0-0 (>= 2.5.3), libatk1.0-0 (>= 2.2.0), libbamf3-1 (>= 0.4.0), libc6 (>= 2.17), libcairo2 (>= 1.2.4), libdbusmenu-glib4 (>= 0.4.2), libdee-1.0-4 (>= 0.5.2), libgcc1 (>= 1:4.1.1), libgdk-pixbuf2.0-0 (>= 2.22.0), libgl1-mesa-glx | libgl1, libglew1.8 (>= 1.8.0), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.35.9), libgtk-3-0 (>= 3.1.6), libindicator3-7 (>= 0.4.90), libjson-glib-1.0-0 (>= 0.12.0), libnotify4 (>= 0.
<nik90> burdickjp: what mhall119 said
<pcworld> (doesn't even fit in 512c)
<mhall119> pcworld: that doesn't tell you much of anything
<burdickjp> are there intentions to move away from gnome?
<eLpm> pcworld: That's the current dependency story, yes. But as mhall119 says...
<nik90> pcworld: have you taken a look at the dependencies of gnome 3.10?
<pcworld> mhall119: it tells me that I can't easily install Unity on another OS without having to install basically everything Ubuntu-related package
<mhall119> burdickjp: the intention is to move towards convergence and use of the Ubuntu SDK
<nik90> pcworld: I was looking at the dependencies and status of gnome shell in debian..it also has a long list of packages
<mhall119> we'll still use a lot of the Gnome plumbing under the hood
<burdickjp> pcworld: or KDE for that matter, which is very vertically integrated.
<eLpm> pcworld: They are GNOME dependencies...
<mhall119> for example, we still use evolution-data-server on the phone
<mhall119> and gsettings and other gnome technology
<mhall119> just not Gtk or the shell
<burdickjp> mhall119: so there will eventually not be any gtk core apps, like nautilus etc
<Arigator> pcworld: I wonder if there are going to be Compiz like effects for the tablet and phone versions. That would be cool!
<mhall119> burdickjp: there might be, but there are 2 main obstacles right now:
<mhall119> 1) Gtk doesn't run on Mir
<mhall119> 2) Gtk doesn't easily support application convergence
<nik90> mhall119: doesn't easily support -> Does not support convergence at all
<mhall119> yay core apps devs!
<ahayzen> \o/
<nik90> :D
<nik90> hi ahayzen
<burdickjp> mhall119: i really feel stupid asking again, but why not plasma?
<ahayzen> nik90, o/
<pcworld> re stream: except you can't really choose Unity 8 in lightdm if the list of your DEs is too longâ¦ :P
<eLpm> mhall119: the ones which don't support Mir, will run on the X rootless thingy, right?
<mhall119> burdickjp: it was too different from Unity desktop
<mhall119> eLpm: yes, though obviously that's less ideal and we wouldn't want that for default core apps
<burdickjp> mhall119: was unity for desktop developed beforw this convergence plan?
<nik90> eLpm: wouldn't you prefer the default core apps on the Ubuntu desktop to be uniform, clean and use the same SDK as other apps?
<nik90> eLpm: we are trying to achieve that consistency
<mhall119> burdickjp: Unity evolved from the netbook interface.  It had an eye on convergence from the beginning, but it was always a long-term plan
<eLpm> nick90: of course, that would be awesome.
<eLpm> nick90: just wanted reassurance, about something I've already read about :)
<nik90> eLpm: :)
<burdickjp> mhall119: Plasma has had a netbook interface and convergence plan, plasma active, for quite a while.  it seems to me a common goal.
<mhall119> burdickjp: indeed, but different projects and different technology
<RomanOnARiver> does the information given about the software center not being included mean that there will be no software center in the repositories? I ask as someone running a different desktop environment than unity
<pcworld> burdickjp: but it wouldn't be "Ubuntu"-branded, and that's what Ubuntu is all about latelyâ¦
<eLpm> RomanOnARiver: I think the SC will be substituted by the Dash
<RomanOnARiver> and so because i am not running unity and have no dash... how will projects like xubuntu be affected?
<nik90> pcworld: as I told burdickjp, KDE devs will never accept scopes, lenses, other little stuff that make Unity. I feel that you are just looking at the UI and not the concept itself.
<mhall119> RomanOnARiver: if they want to use the Click app store they would need a client for it
<nik90> its not about ubuntu branding
<mhall119> RomanOnARiver: it's all open APIs and tools, so they can do something fairly easily
<RomanOnARiver> and for applications are not "clickapps"?
<pcworld> nik90: I never said this made sense, I'm just a little bit annoyed by what's happening with Ubuntu in the last few yearsâ¦ sorry for that :)
<burdickjp> pcworld: that's the impression i'm getting as well.  not to discount any of the good Ubuntu is doing, but they seem to be getting a lot of criticism for what is perceived as a 'not developed here' mentality
<mhall119> RomanOnARiver: if they are debs in the archives then derivatives can use existing tools
<pigman1> hi
<RomanOnARiver> so that's what i'm asking, will there be the Software Center in the repos?
<mhall119> RomanOnARiver: for the forseeable future, yes
<RomanOnARiver> alright good.
<burdickjp> nik90:  accepting scopes into the whole of KDE and ubuntu offering scopes as a suppliment to a DE seems not a deal breakee
<mhall119> s/emulator/simulator/
<set__> .../g
<nik90> burdickjp: well u cant integrate KDE without patching stuff
<pcworld> burdickjp: why would KDE want to do that?
<RomanOnARiver> hoping the emulator is x86 so it can run at native speed in virtualbox, unlike say the super-slow android emulator
<mhall119> burdickjp: KDE and Unity have fundamentally different approaches and direction
<mhall119> RomanOnARiver: it won't be a hardware emulator most likely, since SDK apps run natively on the desktop
<nik90> burdickjp: besides I see no common ground between KDE and Unity except for the fact they use Qt
<nik90> the whole design concept is still different
<mhall119> RomanOnARiver: instead it'll be a simulator that lets you give fake sensor data and stuff to test your apps on a desktop
<leedev> did he say haych tml?
<RomanOnARiver> that works
<nik90> mhall119: oh yeah I am really looking forward to the emulator
<nik90> never used on before
<burdickjp> nik90: they both have a convergence vision.
<nik90> burdickjp: +1 but approached differntly
<mhall119> burdickjp: that's not really enough to make it worth using the same code
<chro> how can they talk about high quality software, I just upgraded ubuntu to 13.10 and I've already found several bugs (e.g., keyboard leds are off, keyboard does not work with the latest kernel, sound on speakers does not work after using headphones, among others)
<nik90> burdickjp: u said it yourself
<pc-world> chro: Ubuntu upgrades never worked too good, and in the last few years they didn't care at all about upgrades or quality of the desktop applications
<Arigator> Is it possible to watch a this IRC chat log in fullscreen on the ubuntuonair browser page? Or do I need a real IRC client for that?
<pc-world> I don't think they ever really tested upgrade from 13.04 -> 13.10
<mhall119> pc-world: not true at all, we care a lot and test a lot to make upgrades as reliable as possible
<thiebaude_> Arigator, i use xchat
<Arigator> thiebaude, thanks for the tip!
<thiebaude_> np
<nik90> pc-world: are you serious? <- sarcasm!
<chro> pc-world, it  really seems like you say
<nik90> pc-world: a whole array of QA teams are focussing on autopilot tests and stuff
<RomanOnARiver> btw question about webapps and integration in 12.10 and beyond, are those compatible with other desktops, provided for example that you have the proper indicator installed?
<pc-world> mhall119: sorry for being so critical. But there's so many game-breaking bugs that are not being fixed. I think was much better around Ubuntu 9-10
<burdickjp> nik90:  i really don't see it as so different
<chro> nik90, how do you explain that I have several problems each time I upgrade ubuntu ...
<pc-world> example: Java Swing font is broken since 12.04. Breaks all Swing applications that don't define a font on their own.
<mhall119> pc-world: there is a *massive* amount of hardware variations people are using, and a *massive* amount of software variations they have installed, we test as much as we can but we'll never cover everything
<nik90> chro: for starters, it depends on the hardware you are running on
<pc-world> lightdm looks nice, but can't display more DEs than the screen is tall
<nik90> chro: you can expect the QA team to test every configuration out there
<mhall119> yes there are bugs, there will always be bugs, but we also fix a huge number of them every cycle
<thiebaude_> ^^
<nik90> chro: if you compare to other OS like Mac OS, Windows etc, they do slight better only because the hardware is certified for a particular version
<pc-world> mhall119: I know, I know, I should rather submit patches than complain :)
<RomanOnARiver> ubuntu has certified hardware too btw
<nik90> chro: buy a system76 laptop and let me know if u still face issues with uprgade :)
<Arigator> As a sidline, when you look at the many instruments behind him, you would think that he works for the 'Ubuntu Studio' or 'AV Linux' :P
<chro> nik90, I tried several versions of windows in a variety of hardware, and I never had problems
<set__> chro: the advantage of open source is to make it able to you to contribute fixing bugs
<nik90> RomanOnARiver: +1. However that matters only if users buy those models
<nik90> chro: again that's because they come with the "Recommends Ubuntu option"
<mhall119> Arigator: well he did develop Jokosher
<nik90> chro: this issue btw affects all linux distros not just ubuntu
<nik90> it depends on the linux kernel
<dkessel> is ubuntu-on-air really weekly?
<Arigator> mhall119 Ah, alright! Neat!
<RomanOnARiver> i installed windows on this laptop and my desktop, about 11 things did not work - wifi, ethernet, sound, etc.  there was no driver installed and no indication of what i needed or who even made it. rebooted to gnu/linux and found this info... everything worked out of the box in gnu/linux
<pc-world> what I'd really like to see is Chromium being moved to main, though I can imagine it's a PITA to maintain it
<burdickjp> thank you very much for your time.  I really appreciate it, and your work.
<mhall119> dkessel: there is a weekly engineering update, every wednesday now at this time
<mhall119> dkessel: jono also has a weekly community Q&A, every tuesday
<burdickjp> I'm looking forward to Unity convergence!
<pc-world> RomanOnARiver: on my old computer, a WiFi XP driver worked much more stable using ndiswrapper than it did on Win7
<burdickjp> thanks again!
<mhall119> and many other teams use ubuntuonair.com to host their videos
<dkessel> mhall119, nice! too bad i only learned about it today... found it on facebook...
<dkessel> will see this more often now!
<mhall119> http://youtube.com/ubuntuonair for al the recorded videos
<chro> nik90, btw, why did they copied the mac OS x desktop with unity
<burdickjp> I came over from google+ BTW
<pc-world> chro: because they can
<set__> :D
<mhall119> you can watch al of the past videos from different people
<nik90> chro: what copy? Unity's convergence came much before mac os
<thiebaude_> does it really look like osx hmm
<RomanOnARiver> i would be more into unity if i could install it without the ubuntu-desktop metapackage. i like xfce4 in the way that it doesn't force a browser for example and i can pick exactly what i want, but installing just the unity package doesnt pull in the de
<mhall119> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1311/ to see the schedule for next week's UDS
<nik90> chro: just because unity has a launcher doesn't make it similar to mac
<thiebaude_> nik90, its not
<chro> thiebaude_, the unity is a copy of the mac os x environment
<thiebaude_> :)
<nik90> thiebaude_: ?
<chro> nik90, the icons are equal
<nik90> thiebaude_: not sure which statement you referred to?
<RomanOnARiver> the unity desktop's design - dash on the left and global menu are not copies of osx, but to recognize that computer monitors now being widescreen means we can use the horizontal space and try to save pixels
<RomanOnARiver> vertically
<thiebaude_> nik90, the unity launcher
<mhall119> BTW, anybody can join in the UDS conversations, either on IRC or on the hangout video, and all sessions will have hteir video recorded for later viewing
<set__> QUESTION: default switch off online scopes?
<eLpm> RomanOnARiver: unity does not depend on ubuntu-desktop
<snwh> QUESTION: am I awesome? :3
<mhall119> snwh: yes :)
<RomanOnARiver> it doesnt seem to work if if i boot it from lightdm after just installing unity
<nik90> chro, thiebaude_: Unity Launcher's is in no way a mac os clone. Its placement and quicklist support is all based on design decisions
<Arigator> chro regarding unity: I think taking the menu bar from apple's OS was a very clever idea and the whole "bar stays at the left side" probably has the aim to make it look different to Mac and Windows (in contrast to gnome, KDE, which always look a bit like Win or Mac)
<nik90> besides you mention about unity copying macos, didnt u realise macos copying workspace features from Linux?
<snwh> mhall119, thanks :)
<thiebaude_> nik90, exactly and notifications
<mhall119> please start questions with "QUESTION: "
<pc-world> QUESTION: Will you consider moving Chromium to main? Often old Chromium versions with known security vulnerabilities are floating around in the repos for a very long time, and I'm sure there's a very large portion of Ubuntu Chromium users.
<nik90> thiebaude_: +1 on notifications
<RomanOnARiver> I said clearly why the bar is on the left and there's a global menu - save vertical pixels and use horizontal ones, because screens are wide now so you have more horizontal space than vertical. nothing to do with osx
<nik90> thiebaude_: although that changes with unity 8
<thiebaude_> nik90, and btw i do have ubuntu tricked out to look alot like mac,lol
<nik90> thiebaude_: the phone now has snap notifications
<thiebaude_> :)
<set__> i do search on duckduck...
<thiebaude_> i do love the mac osx look
<nik90> thiebaude_: beauty of open source bro
<pc-world> "anonymized", "encrypted": I don't have root access to Canonical's servers
<RomanOnARiver> QUESTION: That's the point - if you turn it on by default and say you can turn it off most people wont turn it off, but they should.
<thiebaude_> i would love to see search on the top task bar in uubntu
<thiebaude_> ubuntu
<mhall119> pc-world: no you don't, you have to trust us to some extent if you want to use the feature
<set__> ok, thank you!
<mhall119> RomanOnARiver: you're more likely to be aware of a feature that is on than a feature that is off
<pc-world> then give users a big red warning when they first boot up Ubuntu and let them know that everything they type is being recorded
<mengine_> QUESTION: Any plans of a tool similar to Landscape, to manage all your devices(manage updates, apps, etc? Will ubuntu one take care of these things?
<leedev> I typed something in one time and Unity advertised condoms to me for low low prices
<leedev> ^honestly
<thiebaude_> choice
<dkessel> QUESTION: is the anonymization and encryption mechanism described anywhere in public?
<Arigator> I have a question: as a layman I probably don't really get the whole impact that changing xorg to Mir is going to have on the desktop version, but are there some very visible positive impacts of changing to Mir? For example, I would consider it a great step forwared, if it is easier to change screen resolution, positions of dual desktops, triple desktops etc. on the fly (instead of having to reboot for applying changes)
<nik90> QUESTION: Convergence rocks! Can we expect system apps and core app to be convergent by 14.04?
<thiebaude_> let them have a choice
<thiebaude_> even though i did turn it off
<FlyingPig> QUESTION: What about Ubuntu TV? Any news to share on this one?
<mhall119> dkessel: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SmartScopes1304Spec has most of the available info
<RomanOnARiver> QUESTION: Does Canonical get any e.g., referral money from Amazon for example?
<RomanOnARiver> QUESTION: I ask because the dash was called "advertising" when it does a search
<pc-world> RomanOnARiver: re referral money: Mark Shuttleworth said no, though that can only be a lie or clever wording
<dkessel> mhall119, thanks
<snwh> QUESTION: is it tiresome having to reiterate points over and over and over..? :)
<set__> aaah. please stop.
<Arigator> For example, I personally have the problem on every system (including Windows), that I want to use a triple screen setup with 2 monitors + 1 Wacom Cintiq graphic tablet, which is impossible to setup (it's only possible to have 2 screens when using a Cintiq)
<micah2> QUESTION: Is the possibility of having convergent apps present their menus in traditional drop down toolbars when on the desktop (rather than in a hidden toolbar at the bottom of the window in phone/tablet mode) being discussed?
<brook> QUESTION: WHAT KIND OF MUSIC DO YOU PLAY? ^^
<mhall119> micah2: yes, the design track has some sessions that will discuss that
<brook> QUESTION: WHAT KIND OF MUSIC DO YOU PLAY? ^^
<mhall119> micah2: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1311/track/design/
<brook> QUESTION: WHAT KIND OF MUSIC DO YOU PLAY? ^^
<popey> brook: no need to repeat
<Arigator> crap, I forgot to put "question" in all caps and now he went over it :(
<simion314> QUESTION  is not a risk to not work on Unity8 for the desktop in parallel with the mobile? What if later  some design flow(in the code ) is found
<who_me> QUESTION: Will switching hardware enablement stacks ever be fixed? You can't now go from 12.10 HWE to 13.04 HWE.
<mhall119> Arigator: ask it again then
<RomanOnARiver> you can still download rhel for no cost, it's not crippled :)
<mhall119> simion314: Unity 8 for desktop will begin in the 14.04 cycle, it just won't be complete by 14.04's release
<set__> snwh: privacy is important.
<Arigator> mhall119 okay, makes sense :)
<RomanOnARiver> just dont get support form redhat
<Arigator> QUESTION: as a layman I probably don't really get the whole impact that changing xorg to Mir is going to have on the desktop version, but are there some very visible positive impacts of changing to Mir? For example, I would consider it a great step forwared, if it is easier to change screen resolution, positions of dual desktops, triple desktops etc. on the fly (instead of having to reboot for applying changes)
<micah2> thanks mhall119! I plan to tune in as much as I can.
<pc-world> free as in free beer or free as in freedom?
<eLpm> pc-world: both :)
<UbuPhillup> freedom
<RomanOnARiver> ubuntu is free as in beer and partially free as in freedom
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-on-air to: Welcome to Ubuntu on Air! || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/OWD4uc || Ask your questions at ubuntuonair.com || Follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/UbuntuOnAir || Subscribe to our YouTube Channel: http://youtube.com/UbuntuOnAir ||
<mhall119> partially?
<snwh> set__, privacy is important.
<dkessel> QUESTION: have you mentioned your creative commons collection yet? :)
<pc-world> mhall119: Stallman would say you promote proprietary software
<mhall119> pc-world: Stallman doesn't like most popular distros
<pc-world> mhall119: I know
<mhall119> including Debian and Fedora
<isgjevori> are there plans when the core apps of UTouch will be the default on desktop ?
<sergiusens> RomanOnARiver, totally off topic, but where can you download RedHat for free?
<RomanOnARiver> QUESTION: Wil the future Ubuntu desktop still require hardware acceleration or does Qt sans Compiz work like e.g, Enlightenment?
<pc-world> sergiusens: CentOS
<sergiusens> pc-world, that's technically not redhat
<mhall119> isgjevori: that's a long-term goal, yes, but no exact timeframe for it
<jono> jonobacon.org/creative
<pc-world> RomanOnARiver: that would make up for Unity 2D, would quite appreciate that
<pigman1> QUESTION:what's your next big step surporting chinese users, basic function or more locally & beautiful app
<mhall119> RomanOnARiver: Qt uses OpenGL when it's available, and you'll most likely want it
<dkessel> :D
<mhall119> pigman1: are you aware of kylin?
<Arigator> thanks for answering my question and for this whole vidoe thing!
<pigman1> just aware of that
<pc-world> QUESTION: so the first desktop LTS to have Unity 8 will be 16.04, right?
<isgjevori> mhall119:   thank you
<mhall119> pc-world: yes
<pc-world> okay, thanks
<set__> QUESTION: will steam games support be there for Mir?
<pigman1> I don't use that actrully
<FlyingPig> QUESTION: Why is Practical PHP not on your creative site? :P
<RomanOnARiver> you can dl rhel like this: wget -c -O rhel-5-server-x86_64-disc1.iso "https://content-web.rhn.redhat.com/rhn/isos/xxxx/rhel-5-server-x86_64-disc1.isoxxxxxxxx"
<thiebaude_> THANKS Jono :)
<ahayzen> thanks jono :)
<set__> thank you
<RomanOnARiver> you need version info but yeah
<who_me> thanks to you too
<RomanOnARiver> thanks jono sorry if i was a bit blunt
<pc-world> set__: he yesterday said he couldn't comment on possible contracts with graphics driver vendors
<set__> pc-world: thx
<ramzi> nice
<set__> bye
<mhall119> you can always use #ubuntu for support and technical questions, #ubuntu-touch for discussions of the mobile work, #ubuntu-unity for discussions or Unity 8, #ubuntu-mir for discussions of MIR, or #ubuntu-community-team to talk to us about community stuff
<ramzi> bye
<Arigator> dat pathos :)
<ramzi> lol
<simion314> QUESTION any plans to  do something about ubuntu image? a lot of ubuntu haters have risen lately
<j_f-f> Thanks Jono
<j_f-f> bye
<eLpm> Thanks
<brook> gj
<mengine_> gj!
<mhall119> we're on IRC all the time, so if your question wasn't answered during this hour come join out other IRC channels
<mhall119> and subscribe to http://youtube.com/ubuntuonair to see past and future videos we make
<mhall119> jose: ^^ :)
<toddc> thanks
<Arigator> cue the emotional violin background music :D
<mhall119> emo death-metal guitar
<jono> thanks everyone!
<hola> bey
<simion314> mhall119: do you know if we will have compositing in unity8?
<mhall119> simion314: yes
<mhall119> that is, yes we will, not just yes do I know :)
<simion314> mhall119: are you a dev? your nick is familiar
<mhall119> I'm on the community team these days, but I've done a lot of web dev in the past
<simion314> Ii am wondering if we could contribute to Unity8
<mhall119> simion314: absolutely, http://unity.ubuntu.com/getinvolved/development/unity8/ has instructions for getting the code built and running
<mhall119> contributing is the same as any other Ubuntu project, use bzr, push your changes to Launchpad and make a merge proposal for review
<mhall119> simion314: you should also join #ubuntu-unity channel to talk to the development team and designers
<simion314> ok, never contributed to ubuntu, made some small fixes to a few kde apps, in accesibility domain since I am a person with bad eye sight
<simion314> accessibility is the thing
<simion314> I am a little worried, unfortunetly I am so busy I can't put much energy into it, I will check with the devs and see what are the plans
<mhall119> simion314: http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/beta/en/tutorials/using_bazaar_with_launchpad.html has some instructions for using bzr and launchpad together
<mhall119> you'll need a Launchpad user account, but it's easy and useful and used for a lot of Ubuntu related stuff
<simion314> thx
<simion314> mhall119: funny thing is that I was always a KDE/Kubuntu user, and the anti Ubuntu atitude of KDE  makes me think that  maybe is time to try Unity, see if is open and if I can make it a good DE for people with accessibility needs
<mhall119> simion314: it would be great to have somebody with knowledge and experience in accessibility helping out and giving input on designs
<mhall119> definely /join #ubuntu-unity and I'll introduce you
<simion314> thx, I will join, maybe in weekend or when I will have some more free time
<mhall119> sure thing, I'll be there (even if I'm not at my computer)
<mhall119> so feel free to ping me when you join
<pje900> is it still live?
<UbuPhillup> Dont think so
<pje900> bah
<jose> mhall119: thanks for the announcement :)
<sander> Who do I get in touch with, to contribute and check out the continues integration thingie?
#ubuntu-on-air 2013-11-14
<adminjs> when Ubuntu touch will reach mass usability?
<adminjs> what about fixubuntu?
<adminjs> can i see on a website the latest apps?
<adminjs> am i the only one here?
<adminjs> no one understands convergence!
<adminjs> what's the point of a chat if no ones here
<adminjs_> nda haha
<adminjs> aha sell apps
<adminjs> yeah that with the search is also a big cock up
<adminjs> who cares ? i want to search how i want
<adminjs> thats too long
<adminjs> let so else be communuty manager
#ubuntu-on-air 2013-11-15
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-on-air 2014-11-10
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-on-air 2014-11-11
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-on-air 2015-11-10
<UbuntuFun_de> Hi there :)
<popey> hey
<popey> we're live in 35 mins
<dholbach> let us know if you have questions, just make sure you prefix them with QUESTION:
<Knightmare> QUESTION: The Linux community gives Canonical/Ubuntu a lot of stick about their involvement, or lack there of in the development of Linux. What innovations/technologies has Ubuntu used from other projects recently(Desktop/Phone/Server)?
<UbuntuFun_de> QUESTION: When can we expect the first commercial Ubuntu Phone that supports Convergence? And how will be the partner?
<Knightmare> QUESTION: How is Ubuntu phone fairing in China/India. Has there been good adoption?
<Knightmare> popey: Tesco's finest
#ubuntu-on-air 2015-11-11
<Tont> How far are we from a truely integradated one device for everything?
<Tont>  "How far are we from a truely integradated one device for everything?"
#ubuntu-on-air 2016-11-15
<dholbach> Also: No Ubuntu Community Q&A today as it's Ubuntu Online Summit: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1611/2016-11-15/
<pavlushka> :(
