#ubuntu-meeting 2005-03-29
<dholbach> gooood morning
<Treenaks> morning dholbach 
<dholbach> hai Treenaks 
<dholbach> hi
<dholbach> there's no meeting today, is there?
<Kamion> don't believe so
<dholbach> ok... so i can safely head into the city and won't miss advocating new MOTUs :-)
<dholbach> thanks Kamion 
<dholbach> *wave*
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-04-01
<bluefoxicy> next tech board meeting is when
<bluefoxicy> 29 mar 2005 2000utc
<bluefoxicy> 3pm on a tuesday.
* OddAbe19 is back (gone 07:44:24)
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-04-02
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:fabbione] : Tuesday 22 March 2005 22:00 UTC: Community Council -- https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CommunityCouncilAgenda || This is NOT #ubuntu, nor #ubuntu-devel
<dholbach> 22:00 UTC?
<dholbach> fabbione: when did it get re-scheduled?
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:dholbach] : Tuesday 22 March 2005 22:00 UTC: Community Council -- https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CommunityCouncilAgenda || http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar || This is NOT #ubuntu, nor #ubuntu-devel
<avdyk> hi
<mako> greetings all
<dholbach> hey mako 
<Kamion> yo
<fabbione> yo
<Phython> G'day
<dholbach> hey everyone else :-)
<mdke> hi all
<avdyk> hi all
<amu> moin 
<ogra> yay mako
<ogra> amu, moin ?
<ogra> *g*
<jbailey> moin. =)
<T-Bone> moo
* fabbione moins too
<ogra> meeh
<mako> wow.. this place just came alive :)
* Kamion quails slightly at the length of the agenda
<mako> yeah..
<Kamion> will we have elmo and sabdfl?
<amu> ogra: hehe, it's a also short for g'morning *eg* 
<jbailey> Kamion: Don't they hunt quails in your part of the world?
<mako> unclear.. i know the elmo forgot the moved time
<jbailey> mako: The agenda had it wrong as of this morning, anyway.
* mvo waves
<mako> crap
<dholbach> mako: it was set today at 12:00 
<mako> jbailey: really.. i must have gone 6 hours in the wrong direction :-/
<mako> but yeah.. anywya
<mako> i set it in the channel last time though
<mako> correctly
<dholbach> and we said "motumeeting will be after CC meeting", so we'll have big fun ... all sleeping away :-)
<fabbione> mako: topic was changed and NOT restored
<dholbach> set it on   wiki/Calendar   :-)
<mdz> I don't think sabdfl will be here
<mdz> mako: elmo noticed the moved time earlier today
<mako> well, we decided to move on a rotating schedule last time.. we've got folks all around the world we're asking to come meet with us during these meetings
<mako> so, fabbione suggested trying a shifting time through one or two cycles
<dholbach> good idea
<mako> which people gave the nod to last time.. that was befre they were asked to get up at 4am :)
<dholbach> if everyone knows ;-)
<mako> alright.. so we won't have sabdfl
<mako> mdz: should i bother to sms?
<Kamion> right, I'm not looking forward to the next one ... but it's the night before release candidate so I'll be awake anyway
<mako> Kamion: heh :)
<fabbione> Kamion: and all the others with you :)
<mako> the one after that one is going to be the one taht kills me
<mako> well, the next one is semi-alright for me :)
<mako> but it goes downhill quickly after that
<Kamion> s/release candidates/release/
<fabbione> as you can all see.. we can share the pain :)
<mdz> mako: can't hurt
<mdz> mako: unless you get him in trouble ;-)
<mako> ok.. let me sms sabdfl and then we'll move ahead
* mdz cues up some community council music
<tseng> oh, its that time again
* ogra wishes for nas
<mako> alright then
<mako> smurfix: you around?
* mako smsed mark
<mako> alright.. lets move ahead
<mako> agenda is at: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<mako> smurfix should head things off if he's around
<mako> are there any loco folks here?
* mdke puts hand up for italy
<ogra> i think abelli dropped his team lead
<mako> Timo we talked too.. gotta remove him from the list
<mako> ogra: yes, i was very involved in that discussion :-/
<mako> mdke: cool.. lets come back to that towward the end .. 
<ogra> oh, ok...i only saw the last parts with jdub
<mdke> yep
<mako> mdke: since it's s special issue, not introducing a new loco leader
<mdke> cool ty
<mako> JooCruz?
<mako> LogiotatidisGiorgos?
<smurfix> here
<mako> smurfix: hola!
<smurfix> sorry for being late, got lost in my tax forms :-/
* mako remembers he has to do taxes in a few weeks
<mako> smurfix: any comments on the loco teams leaders on the agenda?
<smurfix> mako: one moment
* mako nods
<mako> DarthFrog: nice nick :)
<DarthFrog> mako: Thanks. :-)
<mako> mdke: 
<mako> mdke: false alarm
<mdke> lol
<mako> DarthFrog: we're going over proposed local community leaders
<DarthFrog> mako: Thanks for bringing me up to speed.
* tseng volunteers for the C locale
<tseng> heh.
<ogra> lol
<smurfix> No problem with any of them
<mako> smurfix: have you been in contact with all of them?
<mdz> except that they aren't here ;-)
<mako> ultimately, it's up to smurf.. but we should definitely tell them to drop in and talk the council
<mdz> Simira is travelling, I believe
<mako> to let us know how things are going in their loco, etc
* mako nods
<smurfix> mako: Yep (though not specifically WRT the CC meeting). Also checked the *Team pages
* mako nods
<mako> sounds perfect
<mako> i've talked to a number of them as well
<mdke> canada are starting a pretty well organised team
<smurfix> People should know to show up here, it's on the howto page
<mdke> they're not on the agenda i noticed
<ogra> mdke, next time then
<mdke> i'll let em know
<mako> great then
<mako> i guess we can move on
<mako> member candidates
<avdyk> talkin' to me?!
<mako> we looked at a few of these last night
<mako> avdyk: yes! :)
<mako> sorry.. last time
<mako> avdyk: alright, you're first up
<avdyk> yep... but I was not here :(
<mako> cool.. well i thin kthe problem last time was that we didn't think the page really spoke for itself
<ogra> mako, and Q-Funk wanted to talk to you about his wiki page... did he ?
<mdz> mako: MatthewWeaver was already approved last time, was he not?
<mako> ogra: definitely
<Kamion> didn't we ok avdyk last time round?
<jbailey> Kamion: No, you wanted people who weren't present to come to the CC meetin.g
<mako> no, we didn't
<mako> at least it's not in my notes
<mako> avdyk: want to give us the summaery of your work in ubuntu so far?
<mako> For The Record :)
<avdyk> I didn't do nothing at the moment, I was contacted to make some java synchronisation between debian and ubuntu if I recall
<Kamion> jbailey: ah yes, although it wasn't me who said that in Arnaud's case
<Kamion> (http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-meeting-2005-03-08.html)
<mako> avdyk: ok.. the policy here is usually to hold off on membership until we've seen substantial contributions
<avdyk> mako: I understand that
<mako> avdyk: so the java sync stuff sounds killer.. are you working with the motu folks on that?
<mako> avdyk: when you think you've got a bit of stuff. try to get a few exisiting members to vouche for you and point to your stuff and it should be uncontroversial :)
<avdyk> mako: I'm just trying to have a working kaffe in debian on all arches at the moment :-D
<mako> avdyk: awesome :)
<avdyk> I also work a lot moving java packages to main (in debian)
<mdz> avdyk: jbailey and wasabi are both working on java in Ubuntu
<Kamion> jbailey: have you been working with avdyk?
<Kamion> or intending to, anyway
<jbailey> Kamion: YEs.  Avdyk is the Debian maintainer of most of the Java packages.
<jbailey> Kamion: He, Wasabi, man-di and I work in #ubuntu-java on the packages.
<jbailey> The idea is to keep sync as much as possible.
<mako> avdyk: it sounds like once you get a little more active directly in the ubuntu community, this will be pretty easy :)
<ogra> sounds like a reasonable contribution
<avdyk> I don't have a lot of time at the moment so I concentrate on kaffe, moving java packages to main and the next step will be to package tomcat5
<jbailey> Often the work is discussion around the best way to do things to make sure the packages stay in sync.
<avdyk> mako: no problem
<mako> alright then.. 
<avdyk> I want you to know that I don't wanna have one more email address! ;-)
<avdyk> I'm fine with submitting patches first, then we can discuss of a collaboration 
* mako sets up an avdyk@atdot.cc alias for avdyk
<mako> avdyk: sounds great
<avdyk> ;-)
<mako> avdyk: you think i'm joking? :)
<mako> MartinEricRacine ?
<ogra> mako, Q-Funk's page seems not to have changed
<avdyk> mako: don't know this FQDN ;-)
<mako> yes.. :)
<ogra> mako, iirc you wanted it a bit more detailed
<mako> we talked a bit but i guess he didn't get around to making the changes
<mako> ogra: yes
<ogra> he didnt do any MOTU work yet either...despite asking questions...
<mako> since it doesn't appear to have changed and since he's not here. i'm hesistant to defer another week
<mako> alight
<Kamion> may as well postpone, doesn't do any harm
<mako> not hesitant, that's what i want to do
* mako nods
<mako> alright.. hopefully he can talk to me more in the next few weeks
<ogra> mako, i pointed him to you several times
<Kamion> any contact with Hiweed since last meeting?
* dholbach not
<mako> no.. IIRC i sent him a mail
<mako> haven't heard back
<elmo> mako: you have this cute wetware bug where you keep saying the exact opposite of what you mean ;)
<ogra> heh
<mako> elmo: man.. i know.. luckily it's mostly limited to irc
* ogra has no idea who HiweedLeng might be
<mako> alright then.. lets move on then
<tseng> i seem to recall a hiweed working on a chinese dirivative
<tseng> but he doesnt work inside ubuntu yet, afaik
<Kamion> Matthew Weaver was already approved as a member last week; until he shows up and wants MOTU, I move that we drop him from the agenda
<tseng> only saw him pop up on irc once
<mako> yes, absolutely
<mako> jorge is doing motu stuff now, right?
<ogra> koke !
<koke> pong
<mako> koke: oi :)
<ogra> yeah, and pretty good MOTU stuff :)
<Kamion> agenda updated
<tseng> jorge was tooling around with beagle, other than that i dont know of anything
<dholbach> he rocks!
<mako> koke: btw: nice wiki page
<tseng> koke++
<koke> tseng: that's other jorge
<Kamion> who is responsible for updating UbuntuMembers?
<Kamion> it hasn't been updated since forever
<mdz> Kamion: mako, of course ;-)
<tseng> oh you are jorge?
<Kamion> and we keep losing track
<mako> *shit*
<tseng> nm then :)
<mako> well.. i have a text file i'll port over to the wiki
<Kamion> mako: thanks, that would be good
<ogra> Kamion, sivang once said he would take the task
<mako> handling membership and signed CoCs has been a bit of a PITA recently
<mako> elmo and i worked out a system yesterday
<mdz> mako: oh, good
<Kamion> it's currently kept in order of joining
<mako> that involves a gpg signed file
<mako> that i keep up to date
<Kamion> ogra: I think it probably needs to be a CC member
<mako> i'm happy to just put that in my webspace on rookery
<mako> and have that be the canonical(!) location
<ogra> so what about koke ?
* mako is happy approving koke
<ogra> yeah
<dholbach> YEAH!
<mako> Kamion, elmo: ?
<tseng> koke++ (again)
<Kamion> one sec
<elmo> err, one sec for me too
<ogra> he helped a LOT in the several transitions
<mako> no problem
<mdz> koke seems to have been busy
<Kamion> oh yeah, I remember him now, koke++
<ogra> 16 sponsored uploads
<mvo> koke++ too
<Kamion> (for member)
<mako> Kamion: right
<elmo> koke member++
<dholbach> koke: 16 already?
<mako> koke: congrats dude
<koke> 16? age?
<mako> welcome on board :)
<koke> thanks all! :D
<dholbach> koke: sponsored uploads ;-)
<mdz> koke: congratulations
<ogra> dholbach, thats what my search in hoary-changes says
<ogra> yeah, koke congrats !!
<mako> JamesAMorrison ?
<dholbach> koke: thanks for working with us :-)
<Phython> mako: Me
<mako> cool
<mako> i recieved a signed coc from you today i think
<Phython> mako: I sent it yesterday
<Phython> You got my key sorted out?
<koke> dholbach: I count 14 in my repos
<Kamion> Phython: there's not much on your wiki page about stuff done for Ubuntu?
<mako> perhaps not yet, but that can wait actually
<Kamion> although I know your name from Debian
<dholbach> koke: ah... i remember the first one... and again... and again ;-)
<koke> mako: I think I sent you about a month ago, can you confirm, please?
<Phython> Kamion: no there isn't.  About the most I've done is tried to help pitti understand why drepper was threatening to haunt him
<Kamion> heh
<mako> koke: yeah dude.. confirmed :)
* dholbach doesnt understand
<tseng> mixed up in the glibc cabal eh
<Phython> Kamion: I tried doing the release assistant stuff a couple years ago, but couldn't keep up.
<tseng> they'll cut you
<mako> koke: i think i sent you an email at the time
<elmo> The Drepper hits!  The Phython deflects the blow!
<Kamion> yeah, I remember (and know the feeling nowadays ...)
<Phython> tseng: I've only sent a couple mails towards glibc, most ended quickly
<ajmitch__> Phython: more of a gcc hacker then?
<pitti> Phython: btw, I now replied with a detailled spec and better explanation, let's see what happens :-)
<Phython> ajmitch__: yes
<tseng> Phython: good to have you on board, just sounds like not enough of us are familiar with you yet to make judgement call
<dholbach> Phython: you wrote retchmail?
<tseng> unless someone else steps in :)
<Phython> dholbach: No, I maintained it in debian until sfllaw took over the packages
<Phython> then things went back by the looks of the bts
<mako> retchmail?!
* mako giggles
* dholbach wants retchmail back in Debian
<Phython> dholbach: That's on my list of things to do today
<dholbach> woohoo
<dholbach> and wvstreams4 in ubuntu ;-)
<ajmitch__> tseng: enough of us know him though :)
<Phython> unforunatly I just noticed treelang is busted if you need to use GC
* ogra recognized Phython yesterday the first time in #ubuntu-motu
<tseng> ajmitch__: oh, good
<mako> i agree with tseng on this
<Phython> ogra: That's when I showed up
<ogra> yep 
<mako> Phython: want to come back in two weeks with a few uploads under your belt?
<ogra> i got eagleyes
<ogra> ;)
<Phython> ogra: Oh, I found someone with gstreamer0.8-faad packages, I need to look at those now
<Phython> mako: Sounds like a plan
<ogra> great
<mako> killer
<tseng> yay
<mako> moving on then...
<mako> MichaelKoch
<man-di> mako: thats me
<mako> man-di: right
<mako> java stuff, eh? :)
<jbailey> mako: Same case as avdyk - We all do Java stuff. =)
<mdz> man-di: you work on kaffe upstream, right?
<man-di> mako: same case as avdyk I asssume
<Kamion> ah, another Java cabal member :)
<mdz> java in breezy is going to rock ;-)
<Phython> jbailey: Did you push everyone into this meeting?
<man-di> mdz: I help them with the classlib, orginally I work on GNU classpath upstream
<man-di> mdz: and I'm part of GCJ team
<jbailey> Phython: I had apparently misunderstood that the work that avdyk and man-di were doing in helping get the java bits together so far would be enough.  My bad.
<man-di> currently I try top package newer Eclispe
<Kamion> jbailey: I'm sure it could be if it were clear :-)
<man-di> damn typos
* mako nods to Kamion
<man-di> currently I try to package newer Eclipse
<Kamion> jbailey: it's just not particularly clearly mentioned anywhere, given that the CC members are not people who know about Java
<Kamion> walk us through it slowly :)
<mdz> jbailey: I think you're the only one here who has worked with them, so we are dependent on you to tell us what they are up to and how they are doing
* mako works hard to cultivate his ignorance in java
<avdyk> man-di: you  also move some java packages from contrib to main
<jbailey> Kamion: Right.  I'm going to work out getting the channel logged, so that we I can at least point to things concretely.
<man-di> we want to use joined forces for Java with Ubuntu and Debian
<mako> man-di: awesome :)
<avdyk> free java!
<jbailey> Basically avdyk and man-di are the main movers behind free Java in Debian.  They're working with us so that we can reasonably keep sync between the two distros.
<Kamion> jbailey: I'm happy to take your word for it, but just above avdyk himself said he hadn't done much :)
<man-di> mako: currently Fedora leads in free Java (in my eyes)
<man-di> Ubuntu and Debian together can perhaps change this
<jbailey> Kamion: Right, that's why I find myself wishing for channel logs. =)
<man-di> we try to create plans and implements to make all work smooth together
<mdz> jbailey: what's involved on the Ubuntu side of keeping in sync?
<jbailey> mdz: Right now we have a focussed goal on the Ubuntu side of using ecj and gij.  After that we're moving pieces from multiverse into universe similar to the Debian transition of the JAva bits to main.
<mako> wow.. sounds great
<jbailey> alot of the Debian effort gets held up because of the NEW queue processing time.
<mako> i'm very excited about free java
<man-di> mako: thx
<jbailey> So as we're getting ahead of Debian in a couple areas, we're working on making sure that most of what we do can be fed into Debian sanely to make sync'ing easier.
<mako> great
<man-di> mako: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/java-trap.html
<mdz> jbailey: I guess what I'm asking is, what are/will the candidates be doing on the Ubuntu side of things to help with that (as opposed to the Debian side)
<mako> mdz: it sounds like all of the work will be done for ubuntu first
<mako> mdz: or much of at least
<ogra> mako, but hangs in debians NEW queue ?
<man-di> mdz: the Ubuntu has a little bit different goals as they are set now, we can help synchronizing packages and targeting the Ubuntu goals
<man-di> mdz: e.g. Ubuntu targets on GCJ
<jbailey> mdz: Right now, it's been alot of guidance and discussion around the apckaging and resolving problems.  Much of the work may wind up in Ubuntu first because of the faster upload cycle.  Ongoing, if it works out, there will be the group of us actively caring about Ubuntu in Java, although they may primarily care about Debian.
<man-di> mdz: DEbian cant
<mako> man-di: why not?
<mako> (we should probably try to cut this a little short, as it's probably OT for a CC meeting)
<mdz> are we consisdering universe maintainer status, or only membership?
* tseng was about to ask that
<tseng> :P
<mdz> that should probably be indicated clearly on the agenda in the future
<Kamion> I think it's still worthwhile
<ogra> membershop
<jbailey> membership. 
<man-di> mako: e.g. because the needed version is not in Debian yet and Debian wants diversity, Ubuntu wants a clean solution for the user
<ogra> ship even
<jbailey> If it makes sense for them to do full MOTU, that's something we can work out later.
<mdz> oh, ok
<azeem> Debian NEW is being processed again, so I don't think that's a big issue
<mako> jbailey: yeah, we can bring that up with the motu team and any of the folks on the TB/CC
<jbailey> mako: Right.
<Kamion> ok, that's a good deal more than we'd heard previously; I'm willing to amend the earlier "wait and see" on avdyk if others agree
* mako nods
<jbailey> Kamion: Sorry about that.  I need to figure out the best way to make sure these are presented well.
<mako> yeah.. i think we should handle man-di and avdyk similarly here
<mdz> if membership is the target, then jbailey's testimonial that they are actively contributing counts for a great deal
<mako> jbailey: the best way is to make sure the wiki page has a claer list of the thing that the person has done
<mako> alright then
<mako> elmo: any objections to deciding on avdyk and man-di based on jbailey's testimony?
<elmo> nope
<mako> cool
<mako> i'm happy with both on jbailey's word and the java stuff that has been done
<mako> but i'd like to see more fleshed out wiki pages in the future :)
<ogra> and a irc nick on the page would be awesome ;)
<man-di> ogra: sorry
<ogra> for every wiki page
<mdz> a first-hand testimonial is more useful than a verbose wiki page, in my opinion
<Kamion> ok then, avdyk and man-di both approved as member, that's the last of the new members
<ogra> man-di, not only yours, i'm stumbling across that very often
<Kamion> mdz: right, but having the latter means they're less likely to be deferred before we get round to hearing the testimonial :-)
<ogra> man-di, its just not specified anywhere ;)
<tseng> i think we should make sivangreen the official "template"
<mako> ogra: seriously
<tseng> for motu hopefuls
<mako> tseng: totally, i'll do it
<tseng> mako: cool, thanks!
<ogra> tseng, hey thats actually a nice name
<ogra> tseng, better then wannabes
<tseng> yeah.
<Kamion> ok. "Ubuntu website remake" is a leftover from last meeting, isn't it?
<ogra> lets keep it 
<mako> Kamion: um.. it's been added and removed :)
<mako> people *are* still brining it u
<mako> up
<mako> but yes
<Kamion> well, it's still an open issue, but it's being acted on isn't it?
<mako> but yes
<mdz> Henrik is tracking that project
<Kamion> so nothing for the CC to do
<mdz> it's high priority
* mako nods
<mako> mdz: absolutely
<Kamion> Vika is working on it too
<mako> alright..
<mako> any kubunut news/items?
<mako> kubuntu
<mdz> Riddell: wasn't the preview announcement our "big announcement to the world"?
<mako> Riddell: i think so :)
<Kamion> that also looks like a leftover from last time
<mdz> website seems more or less sorted, except for the registrar delay on kubuntu.org
<mako> mdz: that was my comment
<Kamion> as is LoCoTeam process
<mako> is there anything the CC can do for kubuntu?
<elmo> mdz: that's fixed
<amu> not now, we're working on the last packages ... 
<mako> amu: sounds good
<mdz> oh, so it is
<mdz> elmo: excellent
<mako> yeah.. loco team stuff
<mako> ok.. so there was something of a mess with the italian team
<mdz> indeed
<mako> over the last 3 weeks probably
<smurfix> actually it brew under the hood for longer
<mako> basically, some people had some issues with leadership and communication and decisioning making within the team
<mdz> abelli has been on #u-d nearly every day recently looking for sabdfl
* mdke pops head up
<mako> i can try to make it short
<mdz> he doesn't seem to be here for the meeting, though?
<mako> no.. he's largely disengaged
<mako> so someone sent mail to info a few months ago complaining some issues with the loco team and the way it was working
<mdke> he is not gonna get back involved i don't think
<Kamion> I'd be interested in hearing from other Italian community folks; abelli has been by far the loudest, but loudest isn't always right :)
<mako> but asked that nothing be done about it at the time
<mako> things kind of simmered i supposed
<mdke> i get on pretty well with him and have heard most of his complaints
<Kamion> mdke: could you run us briefly through them? another angle would be good
<mdke> hmm
<mdke> he feels like he was cut out of the group by some people who conspired behind the scenes and went to mako
<mdke> several other peopl left the team with him
<mako> and he's upset at me for not telling me about the fact that people were upset with him
<mdke> mako, yes although mainly with them
* mako nods
<mako> andrea and i still exchange email almost daily
<Kamion> from what I remember, the people who came to mako said that they had tried to talk to abelli and got nowhere?
<smurfix> Unfortunately he then didn't want to meet on IRC with me+mako recently, and dropped his name from the team list
<mako> Kamion: well, originally, they jsut said "some people are having problems with the team. don't say anything. we're just going to keep working"
<mako> that was 3-4 months ago
<mako> more recently, things came more to the surface
<Kamion> also, um; were there substantive issues with things that were/weren't being done, or was it purely a "who's in charge" thing?
<mako> Kamion: depends on who you ask
<Kamion> or a who's telling whom what to do thing
<mdke> Kamion, power struggle if i've understood it correctly
<mako> basically, everybody involved said that other folks were not really doing any work and only wanted power
<smurfix> Kamion: puls leadership style issues, plus ...
<mako> which put smurfix and i in a pretty strange position
<smurfix> as I said, we tried to get the two sides to talk in the same room, but ...
<mako> a whole number of people said "this other person is trying to rule the group in a bad way and they're not doing any real work"
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-04-03
<mdke> mako, both sides seem to say that :/
<mako> mdke: exactly
<Kamion> well, if they won't talk, then *somebody* has to go, I guess ...
<smurfix> mdke: exactly, albeit differently
<mdke> i have tried to mediate and proposed a solution
<mako> smurfix and i talked to both sides seperately and said basically, "can you guys, together or independently, come up with a solution for choosing and reevaluating leadership that you both would find fair"
<mako> we tried to get them together to have that discussion as well
<smurfix> Kamion: abelli did, and the "other side" seems to start getting their act together WRT a new locoteam
<mako> but by that time, abelli has basically disengaged completely
<mdke> yes he is too disillusioned
<mdke> the two sides are unlikely to work with each other
<mdke> imo
<mako> so yeah...
<mdke> anyhow
<mdke> i'd come to talk about the solution rather than the problem
<mako> sounds good :)
<smurfix> the new locoteam rules we've talked about last time should help avoid that heavy-handedness in the future; one part of the problem was that abelli was simply here first
<mdke> we'd proposed a team without a leadership.
<mdke> in which the group consensus takes decisions
<mako> well, that was a problem intitially.. abelli did some great stuff and had some great ideas
<mako> and i still hope he can find someway to get back involved in teh community
<ogra> yeah
<mdz> smurfix: are those published somewhere?
<mako> mdz: they will be
<smurfix> mdz: sure, I've changed the howto
<mdz> hno73: just a moment ago there was an agenda item regarding the status of the website competition; if you want to give a brief update, that would be good
<smurfix> mdz: Create *team page, get team, document what team does, figure out who's "leader" -in a nutshell
<mako> i think not having a leader at first.. but letting it emerge from the group  was something we mentioned last time
<smurfix> mdz: Might make sense to deemphatize the "leader" bit further
<mdke> i was hoping to discuss the possibility of our group (without a leader) interacting successfully with you guys
<mako> mdke: so is your decision to not have a leader for a while?
<hno73> Right, so we've picked three winners and are now implementing the new layout
<mako> mdke: i would completely understand taht
<mdke> mako, i'll hang on until the website point is done
<hno73> Actually, the Kubuntu site is already using the new layout with some colour changes
<smurfix> mdke: One or two people should be the contact, preferably those who speak English best ;-)
<Kamion> mdke: I certainly don't think we mind having consensus presented by a couple of people, rather than an individual leader's decision
<mdke> mako, two of us have volunteered as secretaries for the group, based on the enrico/docteam model
<mdz> hno73: oh, I didn't realize that about the Kubuntu site. nice
<Kamion> mdke: if you need a couple of people to be contacts to avoid accusations of powermongering, we'd certainly understand
<mdke> Kamion, our role would be to gather up threads of consensus
<mdke> and one or both of us could act as representative for you guys
<Kamion> mdke: *nod*
<mdke> the other guy couldn't come this evening i'm afraid
<Kamion> that seems perfectly reasonable
<Kamion> who's the other guy?
<mako> mdke: i think that's great :)
<mdke> mako, ok cool
<mako> yeah, who's the other guy? :)
<hno73> I've been working with two of the competition winner on the site CSS and it looks like it's shaping up
<mdke> he is sebastiano
<mako> ah, ok
<mako> mestre, yes?
<mdke> yes
<Kamion> hno73: kubuntu.org is already looking like a nice improvement, certainly
<mako> great
<hno73> I'm not sure how much work it is to make a Plone skin though
<mdz> hno73: is there an ETA when the new ubuntu.com will go live?
<mdke> mako, he speaks english right?
<mdke> i think he speaks pretty well
<hno73> mdz: The plan is to take it live at Hoary release
<mdke> so we could do it
<mdz> hno73: ok, thanks for the update
<mako> mdke: yes
<mako> mdke: we've emailed in the past
<elmo> hno73: wah
<elmo> hno73: _AT_ ?
<Kamion> hno73: sometime a bit before would be nice ;)
<mako> :)
<hno73> Kamion: right :)
<mdke> whoops
<mako> lets try to coordinate making all the most invasive changes precisely with the time that slashdot links to us
<elmo> mako: let's not
<mako> oh wait.. there goes that thinko problem again :)
<mako> ;)
<Kamion> mako: you're assuming /. will link to the hoary release
<mako> cool
<mako> Kamion: it'll happen ;)
<mdz> ready to move on?
<mako> yes
<mako> so yeah
<Kamion> mako: and not to, say, "$OTHER_DISTRO thinks eating pies is quite important actually"
<mako> mdke: ao...
<mako> so..
<mako> i want to make sure we can learn as much from the italian situation
<mako> and do as much as we can to prevent this from happening with other teams
<mdke> hmm
<mako> the italian team is perhaps only unique in that it was one of our first teams
<mdke> the problem is semantic i think
<mako> and has been able to mature more.. good and bad
<mdke> "leader" = all wrong
<mdz> Kamion,elmo: but you know how our beloved sabdfl enjoys last-minute surprises ;-)
<mdke> jdub said to me the other day: the leader is the slave to the group: this needs to be underlined. Otherwise people go for power/fame
* ogra thinks clearlooks
<Kamion> mdke: I do prefer "contact"
<mako> mdke: well, lets take your experience.. both in terms of your new rules and your leadership stuff and see what we can extract into guidelines, etc for the rest of the loco projects
<elmo> mdz: yeah, you remember my hair?  all grey now.  I know.
<Kamion> different emphasis
<ogra> Kamion, spoc `
<ogra> ?
<mako> i'm happy to leave it at that.. i dn't think the CC needs to do anything more
<mdke> mako, well if no other groups have had the problem...
<mako> mdke: given enough time.. they will :)
<thom> elmo: that's just you getting old
<mako> mdke: i want to to AVOID them having the problem
* mdke nods
<mako> or give them a clear path when they get there
* mako a
<elmo> thom: you're the one with 25 years IT work experience  :p
<mako> alright
<mako> we can finish up now...
<mako> IRC ops/moderators
<avdyk> guys, thanks for your time
<Kamion> smurfix: what would it take to expunge the word "leader" and replace it with something else throughout? :)
<mako> mdz: from you?
<jani> mako PM about my key/snailmail etc when you got time
<Kamion> who are the current ops on #ubuntu?
<mdz> mako: yes
<mako> Kamion: i'd be in support of that
<mdz> mako: people are frequently approaching me and others on #ubuntu-devel about moderation issues on #ubuntu
<smurfix> Kamion: s/leader/contact/ ?
<mdke> Kamion, on the wiki? easy game surely
<mako> mdz: it's being done poorly?
<mako> first i've heard
<smurfix> coordinator?
<mdz> mako: no, just an apparent lack of ops
<mako> ahh, ok
<ogra> smurfix, proposing spoc
<mdz> mako: someone coming on and flooding, etc., and there being no one to deal with it
<Kamion> chanserv says seb128, bob2, fabbione, lamont, thom, Keybuk, fooishbar, jdub, mdz
<mdke> smurfix, representative is my suggestion
<DarthFrog> I was the one who brought the issue to a head with mdz.
<ogra> smurfix, Single Point Of Contact
<mdz> yeah, see, those are all Ubuntu developers
<mdz> who are busy with other things
<Kamion> ogra: no more acronyms please, especially not for stuff targetted at non-native speakers
<mdz> that duty should be expanded to include some good community volunteers
<ogra> okay
<mako> right.. we need people who are respected, responsible, responsive, and on the irc channell the fricking time :)
<ogra> bob2
<DarthFrog> Guilty, Yer Honour. :-)
<mdke> and not devs
<ogra> i would say
<Kamion> ogra: he's already on that list
<ogra> ah, sorry
<mako> can we get bob2 in here
<mako> are there are suggestions on folks to do this?
<Kamion> ogra: are you on #ubuntu regularly?
<mdz> I'm not on #ubuntu enough to judge
<mdz> DarthFrog has volunteered
<ogra> Kamion, not recently
<Kamion> ok
<mako> mdz: that's my problem
<ogra> Kamion, but from time to time
<mako> i'm on enough to notice bob2 is on a lot :)
<ogra> yep
<mdke> yes
<mako> can we delegate this bob2?
<mdke> clone him
<smurfix> mdke: "representative" is a bit long for my taste. I think I'll start with de-emphasizing the "leading" part of the job
<mdz> I guess we can delegate this to bob2
<mdke> smurfix, sure cool
<mdz> mako: alternatively
<Kamion> also people who know a reasonable amount about how IRC works
<mako> Kamion: yes
<mako> mdz: ....
<mdz> mako: we could send out an announcement of a future CC meeting and invite people from #ubuntu to come and discuss
<mdz> Kamion: right
<mdz> I am both on #ubuntu relatively rarely, and know jack about IRC
<mako> mdz: yeah. that's basically my position
<crimsun> I'm in ubuntu fairly regularly
<mako> crimsun: sure
<DarthFrog> As am I.
<mdke> smurfix, see enrico's wikipage for a nice description 
<Kamion> I'm on #ubuntu rarely, though university time-wasting means I know a reasonable amount about IRC
<Kamion> although all that knowledge is dated
<mdz> Kamion: you have enough on your plate I think ;-)
<mako> alright...
<Kamion> well yes :) but I'll try to hang out on #ubuntu a bit and see who's who
<fabbione> i am on #ubuntu, but i just idle there...
<Kamion> so that I have something intelligent to contribute next meeting
<fabbione> i got a few trolls... but that's because people were telling me
<smurfix> mdke: Heh
<ogra> daniels is more often there
<jbailey> I idle there, but my nick highlights on 'glibc' and 'cdbs' draw my attention occasionally. =)
<mako> so, mdz's proposal is to invite people next time
<crimsun> mako: I agree with that proposal
<mdke> smurfix, "i do the dirty work while others do the fun stuff" ;)
<mdz> I sort of expected that there would be a critical mass here anyway
<mako> how about this.. the existing CC puts together a list of nominations and we do some sort of consensus with the folks who show up?
<ogra> woah, there are 400 ppl in currently
<mdz> I didn't anticipate the need to explicitly invite people, or I would have done it for this meeting
<mako> ogra: yeah...
<mdz> ogra: consistently over 400 now
<ogra> unbelivable
<mako> alright.. how about this
<mako> we all make an effort to watch the channel a bit
<mako> talk to the regulars, and make a list of nominations of operators
<mako> and then do some sort of consensus thing at the next meeting
<mako> and of course, ask people if they want to do it
<mako> does that sound sane?
<mdz> works for me, except for the "do more work" bit
<mako> it might not.. i don't know how this is done in irc channels elsewhere :)
<ogra> mako, sounds good, but collides a bit with the release, everybody is quite busy atm....
<mako> mdz: dude, irc is FUN
<mako> well, that's the last last item
<mdz> mako: clearly you don't have enough work to do
<mdz> ;-)
<ogra> heh
<mako> mdz: HAH
<ajmitch_> MOTU meetup time? :)
<mdz> any other business?
<dholbach> mako: please have a look at http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTUTodo - loads of thrilling opportunities :-)
<mako> umm.. lets decide on the next date
<Kamion> mdz: let's assign mako more bugs
<ogra> ajmitch_, give them time to end the meeting
<crimsun> mdz: just one: many people have expressed interest in having XFce 4.2.1 in universe (which will require a sync from os-works) in time for Hoary
<mako> Kamion: thanks
<mdz> crimsun: is there something for the community council to discuss or decide in that regard?
<ogra> crimsun, mdz will attend the motu meeting...
<mako> Kamion: KAZAKH LANGUGE SUPPORT TOTALLY FUCKED!!!
<crimsun> ogra: ah, ok.
<crimsun> mdz: nope, retracted.
<Kamion> is it cuz I is Kazakhstani?
<Kamion> ANYWAY
<mako> so yes
<mako> do we want to move the date
<ogra> stop the shouting guys :)
<mako> it's the day before RC right now
<mako> at 4:00 UTC
<mako> *yikes*
<fabbione> yay
<mako> according to the rotating calendar
* dholbach notes it on wiki/Calendar
<mdke> lol
<ogra> 4:00 ?????
<mdke> dholbach, you're really marketing that page ;)
<mdz> what a nice convenient time for me
<mako> ogra: yes :)
<fabbione> ogra: it will be 6 am here
<Kamion> mako: day before release I think actually
<ogra> argh
<Kamion> mako: next week is tech board
<dholbach> mdke: to make sure, I know when the meeting is ;-)
<mako> right. ok
<mdke> heh
<mdz> 2000, 2 days before RC
<fabbione> ogra: next weekend we go in daylightsavingwhatever
<mako> so, should we go with this
<mako> we can move it to thursday
<mdz> mako: it's the day before *hoary*
<mdz> mako: not RC
<mako> oh yes, damn
<mako> well...
<Kamion> I think I would definitely appreciate not having a meeting the night before hoary
<mdz> can we just cancel it?
<ogra> fabbione, yes, and i guess i'll just stay up a little longer ;)
<mako> yes
<mdz> or push it to the next week
<mako> mdz: lets postpone it a week
<mako> alright then
<fabbione> or let's skip it for once
<mdz> double u pTB and CC on the same day to catch up
<fabbione> mako: we need to start time-rotation on the TB too
<mako> OK, April 13 4:00 UTC (!)
<Kamion> TB meetings don't have quite so much of the community involvement thing yet
<mako> any other business?
<Kamion> it's more important for them to be in sync with developers' work hours
<fabbione> Kamion: we still miss people each time
<fabbione> Kamion: like jdub?
<Kamion> true, jdub often can't make it
<mako> going once for othe business....
<Kamion> righto, we're done here I think
<fabbione> we need a fair rotation for everybody really
<mako> going twice for other business....
<mako> this CC meeting is over :)
<mdz> jdub didn't make it when it was at 1600 UTC either
<mdz> mako: cheers
<mako> mdz: so jdub is a bum? :)
<mdke> :)
<mdke> thanks all
<fabbione> mdz: isn't in the middle of the night for them?
<Kamion> 1600 UTC is a pretty obnoxious time in .au
<fabbione> mdz: i never see daniels either around
<fabbione> Kamion: so it is for me....
<mdz> Kamion: TB is currently 2000 UTC
<Kamion> mdz: *nod*
<mdz> which is still not ideal for .au
<fabbione> Kamion: my wife is really threatening me to remove my pro-creation tools if i keep skipping dinner with her each tuesday
<Kamion> fabbione: I'm on 13+ hours today, I have no sympathy :P
<mdke> hmm
<zul> haha..
<mdke> ultimate sacrifice required
<hno73> I should have posted this link while we were on the topic, but: http://www.theopencd.net/ubu/index1.html
<hno73> there it is now anyway
<zul> fabbione: you dont need them anyways
<ogra> .....going for MOTUMeeting.....
<mdke> hno73, that's really nice
<fabbione> zul: shhh! there is always a (very little) hope!
<Kamion> hno73: sweet
<zul> fabbione: none...you are married now.
<mdke> lol
* fabbione has to agree with zul
<Kamion> hno73: (although where did this "intex" thing come from? should be "Intel")
<ogra> .....going for MOTUMeeting.....
<zul> fabbione: for once
<trulux> woka
<zul> hey trulux 
<ogra> hi trulux
<trulux> hey zul, ogra :)
<ogra> lets keep it short today if we can
<hno73> Yeah, that typo has been there since the original template suggestion was submitted to the competition:)
<ogra> there are five items on the agenda
<Kamion> hno73: :)
<dholbach> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTUMeeting
<ogra> first is dholbach asked for keeping universe open a bit longer then release
<crimsun> # the username and ID used by pbuilder, inside chroot. Needs fakeroot, really
<crimsun> BUILDUSERID=1234
<crimsun> #BUILDUSERNAME=pbuilder
<crimsun> # BINDMOUNTS is a space separated list of things to mount
<crimsun> # inside the chroot.
<crimsun> BINDMOUNTS=""
<ogra> crimsun, ??
<tseng> uh
<crimsun> # Set the debootstrap variant to 'buildd' type.
<crimsun> DEBOOTSTRAPOPTS[0] ='--variant=buildd'
<crimsun> err, sorry!
<crimsun> mouse went nuts
<dholbach> :-)
<koke> :D
<ogra> so what about that topic, mdz around ?
<mdz> yes
<mdz> what is the question, though?
<dholbach> yeah... if you have a look at MOTUTodo and UniverseUnmetDeps and the yet to build UniverseDoesNotBuild pages, you'll get an idea
<ogra> can we hear your opinion about that ?
<mdz> xfce is in universe, update it at will
<ogra> mdz, keeping universe open after release
<mdz> oh, that
* trulux would like to talk on Ubuntu Hardened after the meeting
* fabbione watches mdz changing colors
<ogra> i'm not happy with it being stated officially
<tseng> trulux: dude
<dholbach> we're really a rocking team, but we won't make it, there will be loads of uninstallable/unbuildable packages
<ogra> but iirc we had it in warty too 
<tseng> trulux: this is hoary release build up, Hardened is breezy material
<mdz> elmo: is it even possible to lock down main+restricted but not universe+multiverse?
<dholbach> elmo said (just yesterday):  "oh tehcnically it's possible, just a small amount of work - it's just messing with something after it's been released - even universe - just gives me all the wrong kinds of chills" - hope i don't cite him in the wrong context
<fabbione> i don't think we should leave universe open
<lamont> fabbione: ++
<fabbione> if there is any vendor outthere building DVD's with universe.. they will get crazy
<ogra> me neither but leave the opportunity to build a selected et of packages...
<fabbione> or whatever other reason
<fabbione> a release is a release.. full stop
<ogra> set even
<elmo> mdz: yes
<fabbione> ogra: they will be in breezy.. tough luck
<elmo> mdz: at a source-level, in terms of the restrictions
<Kamion> I have to agree with fabbione here; we don't include universe on DVDs ourselves, but I suggested myself recently that third parties might want to do that
<trulux> tseng: right, Hoary+1 is the target
<tseng> trulux: so, please dont cut in on hoary time
<mdz> what are the risks that we expose ourselves to if we leave it open?
<ogra> fabbione, i think it depends on the packages...
<tseng> trulux: release crunch, understand?
<Kamion> and I don't think it's any shame on the MOTU team if there are a few uninstallables left and stuff
<trulux> tseng: sure
<dholbach> if you see those lists of packages and the users complaining about non-installable packages, ...
<tseng> trulux: thanks.
<lamont> mdz: insanity and a slippery slope, for starters?
<elmo> dholbach: btw, there's something else you need to realize
<ogra> dholbach, we need prioritys
<dholbach> ogra: but making the priority list will at least a day
<fabbione> ogra: yes i understand that. but the archive freezes.. that's it.. it can be problematic and annoying in some situations
<elmo> dholbach: sabdfl has set me a hoary release goal of importing the world into universe/multiverse.  and I don't think he cares what state it's in, and I'm not going to get it done in time for you guys to fix it all up
<Kamion> elmo: "the world"?
<elmo> kamion: apt-get.org
<mdz> Kamion: THE WORLD
<Kamion> yeesh
<ogra> argh
<fabbione> oh crap
<tseng> yar :(
<koke> O_o
<elmo> and anything else with a Packages files on it
<ogra> thats news to the MOTU
<elmo> err, Sources
<fabbione> elmo: please do NOT import debian.fabbione.net or any of the mirrors...
* dholbach 's headache gets worse
<fabbione> elmo: that would be bad for ubuntu
<Kamion> er, quality control? hello?
<tseng> ogra: well, we saw it in the preview announcement, and the marillat merging
<fabbione> and i own that archive.. so i know what it's there
<azeem> fabbione: you will be imported. Resistance is futile.
<tseng> but yeah
<mdz> Kamion: quality control and multiverse do not intersect ;-)
<thom> fabbione: coward :-)
<elmo> ogra: yes, I probably should have warned you when I was told to do it; my bad
<fabbione> azeem: eheh
<Kamion> mdz: I would have thought that e.g. the Java guys might have something to say about that
<ogra> elmo, rather sabdfls 
<tseng> elmo: is the stuff even being reviewed?
<fabbione> thom: you really do NOT want apache+ipv6 going around ubuntu, do you?
<mdz> Kamion: java stuff that we care about is going to progress into universe and main
<ogra> elmo, he already forgot to tell us about wine
<elmo> tseng: I'm revieiw it for license and there's an undecided issue of what to do about packages which overlap - they might need reviewed, I'm not sure
<tseng> :/
<jani> elmo, anything else besides apt-get.org ?
<Kamion> mdz: in any case much of apt-get.org would be universe, not multiverse
<elmo> but for the rest, basically no
<ogra> elmo, this may be a high amount
<mdz> ogra: the idea of leaving universe open after release makes me more uncomfortable than the prospect of uninstallable packages in universe
<tseng> ive seen some pretty bad stuff.. case in point their tomboy package
<dholbach> ok, so the decision is final: until release we have to get as much sorted as possible, full stop, right?
<mdz> Kamion: that depends on how we define them
<ogra> mdz, me too
<lamont> mdz: 110% agreement here
<elmo> jani: do you know of any other big meta-repositories?
<fabbione> dholbach: that would be the best solution
<jani> elmo, no just individuals of course
<fabbione> dholbach, ogra: considering how young is the MOTU team
<elmo> jani: well, I'm happy to import other stuff on request
<ogra> mdz, dunno if i wasnt clear about my opinion, but dholbach has the headdaces
<dholbach> it gives me huge headache
<fabbione> you have done an excellent job for hoary
<jani> elmo, cool
<elmo> and if anything gets on sabdfl's radar, I'll no doubt have to import that too
<mdz> fabbione++ 
<crimsun> dholbach: I think hoary/universe being frozen will be okay, since we'll just pick up with breezy/universe
<fabbione> crimsun: exactly
<mdz> you guys are doing a fantastic job, but I don't think there are enough of you to get every  package in perfect shape for the release
<dholbach> thanks for the flowers
<ogra> but will see backports rising again :(
<ajmitch_> so it'll be a crazy 2 weeks getting universe into shape as best we can
<fabbione> also because to fix hoary, you will pile up work on breezy
<Kamion> ogra: inevitable
<fabbione> ogra: you will never avoid that
<mdz> ogra: there were backports for Warty less than a month after release
<crimsun> ogra: true, but we should be pushing those people to use breezy :)
<mdz> with firefox 1.0PR1 or whatever
<dholbach> ok... so someone should get a priority list whipped up
<ogra> mdz, they already exist for hoary :-P
<ajmitch_> mdz: there are already hoary backports.. don't ask how
<mdz> dholbach: a good approach might be to use Debian popularity-contest data
<elmo> giggle
<mdz> dholbach: focus on the most commonly used packages
<elmo> hoary backports
* tseng elects dholbach List Master
<dholbach> mdz: good thinking
<elmo> giggle
<dholbach> i'll take care of it tomorrow
<ogra> elmo, stop giggling, iz makes me cry
<dholbach> lamont: how long will the universe test build action take?
<mdz> dholbach: Charles Majola should be helping with that; I asked him to start working through "apt-cache -i unmet"
<ogra> elmo, and thom as well i guess (ff 1.0.1 is already there)
<lamont> dholbach: heat death of the universe... No.  about 3-4 days, iir5c
<dholbach> mdz: we have that at   wiki/UniverseUnmetDeps
<ajmitch_> tseng: he's already WikiMaster
<lamont> then again, we've imported more crap since the last time...
<dholbach> lamont: ok thanks
<ogra> ok, do we have a consensus here now ?
<dholbach> seems so
<ogra> universe freezes with the release
<ogra> right ?
<tseng> ogra: good news and bad news, i guess :)
<fabbione> ogra: yeps...
<jani> elmo, for instance XFCE4.2 http://www.os-works.com/view/debian/ 
<ogra> ok
<ogra> next
<ogra> which MOTUNewPackages shall be focused on?
<tritium> If our packages don't get approved before the universe freeze, do we miss the MOTU Hoary fast-track opportunity?
<jani> elmo, NVU http://maya.ba.issia.cnr.it/frankie/debian/
<dholbach> gnomebaker should get in RSN
<ogra> dholbach, two little fixes, i reviewed it today
<tseng> tritium: mako or mdz would have to answer that one
<fabbione> jani: you don't want packages from frakie.. do you? ;)
* ogra wants hula
<ogra> hey guys
<tseng> im thinking hula might be less than stable
<ogra> tseng, tagged as preview
<jani> fabbione, I don't know him, I just want NVU users asked for it
<tseng> just from what ive heard around the block
<mdz> tritium: we'll have to decide what to do about the fast-track process through the community council
<mdz> maybe it will continue, maybe not
<dholbach> but "having" hula is cool, even 0.77-extra-experimental-0ubuntu1
<ogra> guys please cncentrate on https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTUNewPackages
<fabbione> jani: nah j/k.. he is a good guy
<ogra> concentrate
<mako> mdz, tritium: yes, but my understanding is that until hoary releases, the fast track process is in place
<tritium> mdz, okay
<lamont> dholbach: Total 2180 package(s) in state Installed.
<lamont> Total 5262 package(s) in state Needs-Build.
<lamont> that's i386
<dholbach> lamont: ok... thank you :-)
<tseng> ogra: none of those are terribly exciting to me
<tritium> mako, okay, thanks
<mdz> mako: yep
<ogra> but thy are the topic tseng 
<tseng> yes..
<ogra> whats not there wont get reviewed anymore
<tseng> but none stands out as popular
<mdz> ogra: I reviewed gvr already and asked elmo to import it
<ogra> but its pointless anyway, since apt-get.org gets imported
<tseng> hula is a hot item, but its "preview"
<mdz> ogra: you can take it off the review list
<tseng> ill get it
<ogra> as i said, our whole QA process we worked out got pointless with the apt-get.org decision whoich makes me merely sad
<ogra> (and a bit angry)
<mdz> my impression was that that stuff would go into multiverse
<fabbione> ogra: you should make a point there imho
<tseng> mdz: er sorry, what does gvr expand to? i dont see such a think on motunewpackages
<mdz> tseng: it's in UniverseCandidates
<tseng> ah
<jani> but those would not override existing packs would it?
<ogra> fabbione, i will, but sabdfl rules...
<Kamion> ogra: I think you should talk to sabdfl and try to clear things up
<crimsun> well, let's go ahead and place precedence on ubuntu's universe packages ahead of what apt-get.org might have
<fabbione> ogra: and perhaps get a more reasonable defition of "importing WORLD"
<fabbione> ogra, crimsun: sabdfl is not a monster with 4 heads and 8 legs :-)))))
<fabbione> just talk with him
<ogra> crimsun, there are even unmaintained packages i once put there 3 years ago i dont want to see in ubuntu
<crimsun> fabbione: sure thing
<ogra> fabbione, i will, but he will have his reasons
<fabbione> ogra: so will you...
<ogra> yup
<fabbione> that's why you talk and agree on what's the best
<ogra> ok, jani
<ogra>  Possibility of adding XFCE4.2.1 to universe? (JaniMonoses)
<ogra> i think we talked that over before...
<jani> well mdz seems fine with it, crimsun did not object
<jani> it's all about if it can be done in time
<jani> now if elmo is after foreign repos this is an
<ogra> yeah, lets pull it in as soon as possible
<jani> excellent chance
<jani> no need for ubuntu1 patches at all, the packages are in good shape
<ogra> yeah
<jani> great PR value too :)
<ogra> yup
<crimsun> except some of benny's packages will supercede what's in universe
<crimsun> his rox-filer is epoched higher, for instance
<jani> hoary hedgehod with latest release of the 2^W 3 most important DEs
<ogra> crimsun, is that bad ?
<crimsun> ogra: I don't believe so, but I haven't reviewed it
<jani> we only get xfce4 core not xfld stuff I's say
<jani> rox-filer is not xfce4 package per se
<Kamion> elmo: do you have discretion to do things like avoiding repositories that clash with stuff already in universe?
<crimsun> jani: right, that's a xfld dependency
<jani> we don't need those
<jani> if we have XFCE4.2 the xfld guys might even switch to hoary liveCD from knoppix ;)
<jani> good for both projects
<ogra> crimsun, could you sort that in the desktop team and make sure that we get only things that are needed ?
<ogra> s/desktop team/xfce team  ??
<crimsun> ogra: yep, jani and I (and others) will go over that
<ogra> great
<jani> great
<ogra> ok, next is  Universe packages without desktop file (UniversePackageWithoutDesktopFile). Which icon, if any, to use for desktop items.
* koke wants to add some comments later on UniversePackageWithoutDesktopFile
<ogra> koke, tell us :)
<koke> then s/later/now/ :D
<koke> well,, this is not much motu-specific
<doko> jani: it would be a good point, if the guys wanting xfce4.2 could be involved in universe maintainance
<koke> but since ubuntu is shipping new desktop files for universe packages
<tritium> So is that it for NewPackages?
<jani> doko, I don't know them it was wishful thinking on my part :)
<ogra> tritium, yup
<koke> and modified ones for some main ones
<koke> how could the translations be handled??
<jani> but if/when we get xfce4.2 in i could mail them
<ogra> tritium, for now until we talked to sabdfl
<tritium> ogra, are you going to remove them from the list to review?
<ogra> tritium, nope, not before i talked to sabdfl
<tritium> okay
<ogra> ok, koke i dont think we can ship translations for every .desktop file but i think we should have as much as possible of them, since Amaranth seems stuck with the menu editor...
<ogra> the question was what kind of default icon do w want
<ogra> we even
<dholbach> i think it was metallikop's question
<koke> ogra: the point is not having all .desktop translated to all languages, but how to do it
<dholbach> and jbailey wanted to provide an icon, am i right?
<ogra> his wife...
<dholbach> koke: it's all about control.in and some autoconf-fu, i can look it up in some packages i came across
<ogra> ...nd he said probably, i have heard no agreement yet
<jbailey> dholbach: Not I. =)  I asked Angie if she was interested, she said yes, but hasn't done anything about being interested despite me nudging her.
<dholbach> jbailey: ok... right
* koke postpones the translation stuff since icons *actually* were on agenda :)
<ogra> koke, probably rather a task for the doc team ? not sure about that
<ogra> so what do we do, do we go with the white paper sheet ?
<tseng> jimmac has some blank icons for mime types
<ogra> tseng, can we make sure they dont conflict with any of the mimetypes ? 
<tseng> im looking it up
* ogra remebers a little grey gear from ancient times....
<tseng> heh
<tseng> and then the "foot"
<koke> /usr/share/icons/gnome/48x48/filesystems/gnome-fs-executable.png ??
<tseng> http://jimmac.musichall.cz/wipicons/git//stock_script-48.png
<tseng> speaking of gears
<koke> or maybe /usr/share/icons/gnome/48x48/filesystems/gnome-mime-application.png ??
<ogra> koke, the latter doesnt exist here
<tseng> nor here
<dholbach> nor in the archive
<tseng> hey
<koke> /usr/share/icons/gnome/48x48/mimetypes/gnome-mime-application.png
<koke> :D
<tseng> http://jimmac.musichall.cz/wipicons/git//window-menu-48.png
<ogra> koke nah
<ogra> hmm, i would like not to misuse some other descriptive icon...
<tseng> ogra: thats not the icon here
<tseng> for window-menu
<tseng> mine has no ?
<tseng> http://jimmac.musichall.cz/wipicons/git//stock_unknown-48.png is for the weather applet
<ogra> tseng, but it describes windows somehow...
<tseng> a .desktop describes a window, no?
<ogra> yeah, thats looking good...
<tseng> in a spacial sense
<ogra> tseng, yes, but not an application...
<tseng> the purple ? has other sizes as well
<ogra> i would vote for gnome-fs-executable.png and stock_unknown-48.png
<tseng> i dont like gnome-fs-exec
<tseng> its too generic from a normal user I think
<dholbach> locate gnome-fs-executable.png | xargs eog    <----- so cool
<dholbach> "collection mode" :-)
<tseng> that one is also used for mime types iirc
<ogra> so what do you guys think ?
<tseng> as was brought up earlier
<tseng> unknown executables
<dholbach> ok... will apps have to ship these?
<tseng> if the desktop referes to a stock icon
<ogra> dholbach, nope
<tseng> it will already exist ideally
<tseng> anyway, go to /usr/bin in nautilus
<tseng> gnome-fs-executable.png is all over
<dholbach> make sure they exist and don't add   /usr/share/pixmaps   - i've been told off once :-)
<ogra> jani koke other opinions ?
<ogra> crimsun `
<ogra> ?
<koke> when I see stock_unknown my links to "help" concept
<ogra> dholbach, yup :)
<ogra> koke, right...
<ogra> no other opinions ?
<koke> maybe some kind of empty window...
* ogra has the feelng we are only four MOTUs in this meeting
<ogra> koke, example ?
* koke looking for...
<ogra> jani, no opinion ?
<ogra> crimsun, no opinion ?
<ogra> ajmitch, ?
<dholbach> i'm looking over $icon_dir
<dholbach> the ubuntu logo
<dholbach> that's generic enough :-)
<ogra> dholbach, imagine a menu _full_ of ubuntu logos :-P
<dholbach> well if it's the thing you're dreading, have  "Icon="  and you're set :-)
<koke> hey, I got it :)
<koke> just open an xterm
<koke> the icon in the title bar sould be chosen, for consistency :)
<ogra> +
<koke> maybe a bit faded to grey
<koke> I'd have to see the result
<jani> crappy connection
<dholbach> hmhmhmhmm
<dholbach> sounds like a NEW icon, right?
<mdz> I'm swamped and haven't been able to keep up; do you guys need anything more from me?
<koke> dholbach: yep, really the same, but colorless
<ogra> mdz, yup next topic...
<dholbach> mdz: wiki/MorgueCandidates
<crimsun> ogra: sorry, was nabbed
<crimsun> (scrolling up)
<ogra> lets sort the icon suff in #ubuntu-motu during the next days if more people are around, there seems not to be much interest now..
<dholbach> yes
<dholbach> probably the best
<crimsun> ok
<dholbach> ok, now we need as much input as possible for   wiki/MorgueCandidates   
<ogra> ...and we schouldnt do that in a rush (we'll have to bear with it the next six months)
<tseng> you just said we shouldnt use an icon that meant "window"
<tseng> ...meh
<dholbach> does everybody feel comfortable with going through them in each motumeeting?
<ogra> tseng, lest sort it later :)
<dholbach> now the lists is a bit full, due to a primary weeding-out
<dholbach> i think it'll settle down soon
<ogra> dholbach, i thought the question was how to get them flushed out of the archive...
<dholbach> ogra: mdz told us last time: "you're in charge of universe, you decide - tell elmo"
<ogra> a package thats there already had a decision i think
<dholbach> mdz: correct me, if i quoted wrong
<jani> hopefully will not come back as part of import world ;)
<ogra> jani, you'll never know
<jani> we should have a list of packages passed to elmo
<dholbach> i had really hoped this was going to be a bit more lively
<ogra> jani, i think its the list already...
<ogra> a package that shows up there should already have had its decision...
<ogra> dholbach, this meeting ?
<dholbach> this topic
<jani> a list which contains the morgue candidates plus packages others work on
<ogra> hm
<crimsun> dholbach: I see nothing wrong with dropping all those listed on MorgueCandidates. Is this discussion about something else?
<dholbach> ok... if there are no objections whatsoever, elmo will receive this list tomorrow and act upon it
<ogra> yup
<dholbach> i'll double check the rdepends before
<ogra> ok
<dholbach> alright.. then this is it
<dholbach> thanks everyone 
<dholbach> thanks ogra
<ogra> yeah...i'll write up the minutes 
<ogra> thanks all, meeting closed
<tseng> thanks ogra 
<dholbach> i'll cleanj the agendas
<ogra> thanks all for attending
<tritium> thanks
<jani> by all
<koke> could we keep talking about translations stuff @ #ubuntu-motu??
<tseng> sure
<dholbach> good night everyone
* koke getting really asleep
<amu> moin
<Riddell> ah yes, we had a meeting
<mdz> whatever daemon evolution uses for notifications had died
<Riddell> haggai here?
<amu> i'll phone him ...
<mdz> pinged him on jabber
<haggai> sorry
<haggai> was talking to tom
<mdz> do we have a quorum, then?
<Riddell> think so, do we have an agenda?
<mdz> I sketched something up on IRC the other day
<haggai> 21:34 <mdz> - any remaining 3.4 packaging
<haggai> 21:34 <mdz> - what should move into main
<haggai> 21:34 <mdz> - Array milestone releases
<mdz> that's the one, was just pasting it
<mdz> what is the status of the KDE 3.4 packaging?  do we have everything we care about now?
<Riddell> remainig 3.4 packages are kdeaccessibility which has compiled but isn't in archive yet, I think we need to poke lamont about that
<lamont> Riddell: he?
<haggai> kdebindings (in progress)
<lamont> eh?
<Riddell> kdeaddons needs done since it's in main
<Riddell> lamont: or is it elmo that needs poked?
<amu> i18n should comes also asap
<ttf> kde-i18n should be done by tomorrow
<Riddell> who's doing i18n?
<mdz> does it build new binary packages?
<lamont> Riddell: s/lamont/elmo/
<mdz> (kdeaccessibility)
<ttf> Riddell: me
<Riddell> lamont: ok
<Riddell> mdz: I think so
<Riddell> ttf: cool
<lamont> Riddell: Building/Failed/Dep-wait --> lamont.  Uploaded --> elmo
<Riddell> kdevelop needs done, that one is tricky
<mdz> if elmo isn't around, I can do those if it's a blocking issue
<haggai> we also have a small list on KubuntuTODO - not KDE 3.4 but maybe some packages to add
<haggai> I mean KubuntuKDEStatus
<mdz> have any of you corresponded with elmo/pitti regarding moving packages to main recently?
<haggai> just amu I think
<mdz> are there still changes pending?
<mdz> looks like all the kmail stuff is still pending
<amu> spoke with pitti today, result is we just move gnupg-agent to main
<mdz> then you need to change the deps
<mdz> the package you uploaded tries to pull in about 10 others
<amu> yep
<mdz> ok
<mdz> there are a couple of FTBFS bugs
<haggai> caused by < 3.4
* haggai double checks
<mdz> 7885, 7914
* mdz removes the kubuntu tag from #5379, kino isn't a KDE package, it just smells like one
<haggai> oops my fault thanks mdz
<Riddell> haggai: what's the status of openoffice1-kde ?
<haggai> Riddell: I thought it was in now
<mdz> something is trying to pull kdesdk into main
<fabbione> kdewebdev
<fabbione> Build-Dep on libcvsservice-dev provided by kdesdk
<mdz> Riddell: there is nothing in queue/new
* haggai commented in ftbfs bugs about 3.4 upload pending
<haggai> openoffice.org-kde | 1.1.3-8ubuntu1 | http://localhost hoary/universe Packages
<haggai> so that needs pulling in
<mdz> kdeaccessibility_3.4.0-0pre1ubuntu1 was rejected
<amu> skd just build, guess need 2-3h more in order to upload it .. 
<amu> sdk even 
<mdz> Rejected: file 'kttsd-contrib-plugins_3.4.0-0pre1ubuntu1_i386.deb' has unknown component 'contrib'.
<mdz> lamont: where to REJECT messages for binary uploads go?
<mdz> s/to/do/
<mdz> fabbione: hmm, but libcvsservice-dev doesn't show up in anastacia
<mdz> ah, because it's already in main
<haggai> hmm, I just realised everything got uploaded with version 4:3.4.0-1 instead of 4:3.4.0ubuntu1
<fabbione> mdz: yes, but it's an old version. the 3.4 one is in universe
<Riddell> haggai: such as what?
<fabbione> mdz: and pulling kdesdk in main means bringing libdb4.0
<haggai> Riddell: kdebase for example
<elmo> fixed that reject
<Riddell> haggai: Version: 4:3.4.0-0ubuntu7
<haggai> Riddell: oh I mean 4:3.4.0-0ubuntu1
<mdz> fabbione: ah, now I remember
<lamont> mdz: to the buildd, and thence to me
<mdz> lamont: did you receive the ones for kdeaccessibility?
<fabbione> mdz: i know because it's the only package that i am waiting to complete main on sparc :)
<haggai> Riddell: oh wierd must've been the wrong chroot
<lamont> mdz: that is, if the binary is rejected.  for source uploads, they go to the uploader
<mdz> Riddell: for kdesdk, we need to migrate it to libdb4.2
<mdz> or something else already in main
<mdz> we don't want another libdb if we can avoid it
<amu> fabbione: builded it with libdb4.2
<fabbione> amu: rocking
<mdz> oh, you already uploaded it?
* lamont looks
<Riddell> mdz: ok, I'll try that
<mdz> Riddell: amu seems to indicate that he did it already
<amu> nope, said before, packages just build and i have first deb's ... need 2-3h more for a review 
<mdz> ok
<Riddell> cool, I'll leave it to amu 
<mdz> amu: so that also solves #7914, yes?
<amu> mdz: finally ;)
<mdz> who is doing kdeaddons?
<lamont> mdz: on investigation, yes.  IIRC, they looked like the typical failure that one gets when a new source version is uploaded before the binaries from the prior version finish building.
<mdz> amu: you also?
<lamont> elmo: does kdeaccessibility just need a re-upload?
<mdz> haggai: add openoffice.org-kde to the kubuntu desktop seed?
<mdz> lamont: <elmo> fixed that reject
<elmo> lamont: no I fixed it
<haggai> mdz: yup
<elmo> lamont: you need to notify me about those kind of rejects
<Riddell> I can do kdeaddons if nobody else is doing it
<lamont> elmo: thanks
<amu> mdz: not now, guess haggai started it
<elmo> katie will override stuff from main, she can't/won't override stuff from !main
<elmo> without human intervention
<lamont> elmo: which was it?  contrib component?
<elmo> lamont; yeah
<mdz> haggai: done
<mdz> ok
<haggai> mdz: thanks
<haggai> amu: started what?
<mdz> apart from the things that we already discussed, are there any other blockers for the release candidate?
<amu> kdeaccessibility ? 
<haggai> knetworkconf into seeds
<mdz> I was asking about kdeaddons
<mdz> haggai: desktop?
<Riddell> 19:22 < Riddell> I can do kdeaddons if nobody else is doing it
<mdz> Riddell: yes, and amu said haggai started it
<mdz> whoever is doing it, please take bug #7914
<haggai> I didn't I didn't :)
<haggai> amu: my lock is only on kdebindings
<mdz> Riddell: all yours, it seems
<mdz> haggai: confirm knetworkconf for desktop?
<Riddell> oh goody
<haggai> mdz: needs to be installed by default on live & install cd.  Is that desktop or desktop + something?
<mdz> that's just desktop
<mdz> live CD is desktop + live
<haggai> k thanks
<mdz> is knetworkconf is good working condition?
<amu> err i'm working on the addon's :) thought we speak about kdeaccessibility
<mdz> does it need any adjustments for sudo vs. su or anything like that?
<mdz> (added to desktop)
<haggai> mdz: not for sudo but there is a patch pending to make it like [k] ubuntu
<Riddell> amu: then take back No 7914 :)
<haggai> mdz: like as in sucessfully detect and use debian config logic
<amu> knetworkconf, must be checkedout from kde-cvs, than we've also Kubuntu support in it, mailed with upstream last times 
<mdz> ok
<mdz> it looks like it doesn't have any new dependencies (I hope)
<amu> nope 
<mdz> elmo: can you do an archive/seed resync tonight to push this stuff through?  if not, I can do it
<elmo> mdz: no; I'm about to leave for London
<mdz> elmo: ok to teri these bits?
<elmo> mdz: I can do first thing tomorrow, or as you say, you can
<elmo> mdz: what you asking me for?  it's your distro :)
<haggai> kmilo needs to move from desktop to ship
<mdz> elmo: you know what you are doing with katie and I do not
<Riddell> haggai: why?
<amu> haggai: just make a list what must be done with the seed's, i casn handle it
<amu> s/casn/can
<haggai> Riddell: we already talked about that earlier - CMOS writing and all that
<Riddell> haggai: there's more plugins for kmilo than just thinkpad
<haggai> Riddell: oh, that makes it more complicated then
<Riddell> haggai: and it does no harm having it there, means the user gets to choose if they explicitly want to ues it
<amu> fabbione: means we've also comming soon a (k)ubuntu4sparc's? 
<haggai> Riddell: but looks bad not working out of the box
<haggai> Riddell: and the given instructions don't actually work (I tried following them to the letter)
<fabbione> amu: kubuntu has been built on sparc. i am only mirring these 2/3 packages that are moving from universe to main
<fabbione> s/mirring/missing
<amu> fabbione: rocks, both 32/64 bit's 
<fabbione> amu: sparc userland is only 32 bit
<fabbione> because it is faster than 64
<mdz> ok, moving on
<mdz> I think we should aim for a coordinated kubuntu/ubuntu RC release
<mdz> any issues or concerns with that?
<Riddell> mdz: sounds good, what's the date?
<mdz> one week from today
<mdz> March 30
<haggai> sounds doable
<Riddell> I agree
<mdz> the most crucial part of this is that we have more hands on deck for testing
* amu nigs
<mdz> for the kubuntu preview release, Riddell and I had to do the testing basically between the two of us
<Riddell> amu: nods?
<mdz> I am going to have my hands full with Ubuntu this time around
<haggai> it happened at the time everyone else was sleeping, and without warning
<haggai> I'm happy to be involved in testing this time around
<amu> Riddell: :) nod,nodding :)
<haggai> in fact I've been testing daily already - that's how my LVM setup got trashed...
<mdz> there were more folks around when we started the test cycle, but then sleep intervened
<mdz> we'll start earlier this time
<amu> haggai: guess upgrade is useless since this is kubuntu's first release 
<mdz> in fact we'll start the day before
<mdz> do you guys have enough hardware variety among you to test amd64/i386/powerpc?
<haggai> amu: upgrade is nice but secondary importance
<haggai> I only have i386
<Riddell> I can do x86 and probably powerpc
<amu> mdz: i've all of them 
<mdz> ok
<mdz> if you feel like you're short, try to stir up some volunteers on #kubuntu, kubuntu-users, etc.
<mdz> it's critical that every image be tested (live and install, all architectures)
<mdz> if you want to do a DVD release, that needs testing as well
<haggai> we're getting fairly good testing already.  There's a new kubuntu forum too that's had some activity
<Riddell> mdz: is ubuntu doing a dvd release?
<amu> mdz: i took this task 
<mdz> I'm not sure that we'll do a DVD for the release candidate of Ubuntu
<mdz> haggai: I mean for the test cycle we do before the release
<mdz> haggai: ensuring that the final images are tested and good
<haggai> mdz: ok fair enough
<mdz> ongoing testing of the dailies is great, but it doesn't substitute for testing the finals
<haggai> right
<mdz> Riddell: we'll decide that sometime soon, but I think probably not
<mdz> we have bandwidth limitations already
<haggai> even a bittorent source?
<Riddell> do we know what the problem was with X on the live CD?  will that magically get fixed?
<mdz> the DVD images are ~2.5G; it's a big load no matter how we distribute it
<mdz> and it'll dilute the CD torrents
<amu> hope i can reach lolo, for a kubuntu mirror 
<mdz> do you guys have the necessary equipment for DVD writing and testing?
<mdz> on all architectures?
<amu> mdz: yep
* Riddell doesn't
<mdz> (writing for at least one, read/live/install on all)
<mdz> one of the big headaches with DVD is that it takes forever to download
<mdz> this makes the test cycle much longer
<mdz> an extra 8G or so to download
<haggai> I have a DVD writer, need to go get some blanks
<mdz> we'll discuss the DVD question for Ubuntu, are you guys happy to follow Ubuntu's lead as to whether we do DVD for the RC or not?
<haggai> yup
<mdz> has anyone tested a Kubuntu bi-weekly DVD yet?
<amu> mdz: could we delay that question, my internetconnection is still buggy, my isp primised to fix it this week 
<mdz> amu: if your connection is problematic, we can always change our mind
<amu> than i've 4,6MB 
<mdz> anything else we need to cover?
<haggai> well I have a reasonable connection I can use to test the dvd on i386
<mdz> I have another meeting in 15m
<amu> mdz: ok
<haggai> any baz / source control issues?
<Riddell> we need elmo to set one up
<haggai> Riddell: you have people lining up to do doc / website stuff right?
<Riddell> haggai: yep
<haggai> is there any infrastructure for doing remote baz repos yet?
<mdz> not properly
<amu> Riddell: webpages are now in baz? 
<mdz> I believe the plan is to use a zope sftp server
<mdz> I have no idea of the timeline; elmo would probably be the person to ask
<haggai> any short term soln we could use for now?
<Riddell> amu: nope, but we should find something to put them in
<mdz> I think we could probably use chinstrap in the short term, at least for the three of you
<Riddell> what is chinstrap?
<mdz> amu already has an account
<mdz> Riddell: one of our servers
<haggai> there are more than just us though as far as doc / web stuff goes
<haggai> we could use novo for just us
<mdz> haggai: we're not going to be able to get this together very soon, I expect
<mdz> if you use baz, you can always merge third-party branches
<mdz> if you have other people who need access
<mdz> we won't have a facility where we can grant authenticated access to arbitrary people very soon
<mdz> we definitely won't be giving out shell accounts to everyone
<Riddell> someone who knows how could set up cvs or svn somewhere
<mdz> we'll have either webdav or zope-sftp eventually
<mdz> cvs and svn have the same issues; might as well use baz
<mdz> (cvs has worse issues, even)
<mdz> I'll chat with sabdfl about the revision control situation the next time we talk
<mdz> anything else?
<mdz> I need to run
<Riddell> I think you can run
<mdz> thanks, guys
<haggai> cheers
<amu> cheers
<Riddell> haggai, amu, ttf: going to Sydney?
<ttf> Riddell: nope
<amu> Riddell: yep
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:lamont] : Tuesday 29 March 2005 20:00 UTC: Technical Board -- https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/TechnicalBoardAgenda || Wed 30 March 2005 20:00 UTC: Kernel Team -- https://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/KernelTeamAgenda ||  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar || This is NOT #ubuntu, nor #ubuntu-devel
<haggai> Riddell: no
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-03-27
<BlueT_> Seveas: pong
<Chousuke> echo foo
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Mar 14:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 23 Mar 18:00 UTC: Bug Squad | 23 Mar 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 29 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<ogra> pfft
<ogra> still 10min to go ...
<Seveas> ogra, it does that on purpose so it doesn't interfere with the meeting
<jsgotangco> err edubuntu?
<Seveas> I just realized there's a tiny buglet in it, it will switch to Xubuntu too early
<jsgotangco> ahhh Xu
<Seveas> jsgotangco, Edu in 8 minutes
<Seveas> (According to the fridge)
<jsgotangco> gahhh
<ogra> as every wednesday :)
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> but i forgot
<jsgotangco> im actually 5 beers drunk at work
<ajmitch> heh
<spacey> hi
<spacey> oe beer
<spacey> you know
<spacey> this sunshine
<spacey> calls for beer 
<spacey> first day of sunshine in 2006 here
* spacey longs for the summer
<ogra> here its the second ...
<ogra> we had a nice day on monday already :)
<spacey> lucky
<pips1> hi all
<ogra> hi pips1 
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Mar 14:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 23 Mar 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 29 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 30 Mar 02:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status
<ogra> heh
<ogra> thats the bell :)
<Seveas> hmm
<Seveas> no it's not, something's wrong
* jsgotangco *bamf*
<ogra> but its handy
<spacey> :)
<Seveas> has the bugsquad meeting been canceled?
<ogra> lets wait for the US to show up ...
<spacey> JaneW: here already?
<ogra> Seveas, moved to monday
<ogra> nope, JaneW cant attend in the beginning
<Seveas> that explains the sudden disappearance of it
<Seveas> ok, I'll shut up
<ogra> she's at school meeting a teacher
<spacey> ah ok
* ogra taps his foot for flint ...
<ogra> ah
<flint> ogra, you are bad people to hold meetings this early.
<pips1> hi flint 
<ogra> its early afternoon here, donno what you mean :P
<spacey> at least my point for the meeting is that the worksheet got neglected again
* pips1 munches on his lunch
<flint> good morning from the frozen north...
<ogra> morning flint :)
<ogra> hey kjcole 
<flint> the coffee pot is a cold memory.
<jsgotangco> good evening from beer laden asia
<ogra> heh
<ogra> so lets start ...
<flint> jsgotangco, beer laden, sounds like a terrorist!
<flint> :^)
<kjcole> hi  all. My ISP is in flakey-land again, so I might disappear without warning.
<flint> kjcole, hey kevin, thanks for your help
<ogra> on the tech side, i worked a lot on the edubuntu-artwork package last week, we have our own gtk theme and i included a tango based icon theme for the "plain" flavour 
<pips1> ogra, what happened to highvoltage, do you know?
<ogra> no idea, sorry
* pips1 shuts up and listens
<ogra> that gets us in the position to drop ubuntu-artwork from the CD
<jsgotangco> ogra: do we still have space?
<ogra> through my additions we loose 2Mb ...
<jsgotangco> eeekkk
<jsgotangco> there's goes my doc in svn
<ogra> through dropping ubuntu-artwork we win 6MB :)
<ogra> so the overall gain from this are 4 meg :)
<flint> ogra, fine work.
<ogra> if you run dapper, please update to the latest edubuntu-artwork and give some feedback
<jsgotangco> ogra: will a daily work for me?
<ogra> i'm sure there are still enough bugs in it to hunt
<spacey> i will
<spacey> ogra: i installed the edubuntu artwork
<spacey> but i didn't get any theme
<ogra> the dailies are broken until the next gwm upload
<spacey> only the font changed
<flint> ogra, think if legislatures and governments had the limitation you had when they drafted laws...or tax policy.
<jsgotangco> hmmmm
<ogra> gdm currently depends on ubuntu-artwork ... that makes the dailies oversized
<flint> so flight 5 works an the daily works tomorrow eh?
<ogra> flint, i'm not sure when seb128 planned the next gdm upload
<jsgotangco> flight5 works fine
<jsgotangco> you'll just have to update it
<ogra> but its a trivial change, i can probably do myself
<ogra> yes, flight5 should work fine
<ogra> note that the artwork still doesnt have the final wallpaper work 
<flint> ogra, been busy, will load flight 5 this week.
<jsgotangco> ogra: i understand correctly, we're not using oour pumpking colors?
<ogra> the defaul wallpaper will be selected by canonical, for the "young" flavor, jane and highvoltage are in contact with the aouthor of the pic we selected in one of the last meetings
<ogra> jsgotangco, exactly ...
<jsgotangco> fair enough
<spacey> ogra: something else on the tech side, we had some bugs with willow but author doesn't respond to mail. Makes it a bit less interesting for future inclusion. Although I didn't attempt any further contact yet.
<ogra> i have seen some suggestions from the design agency and based our theme on that ... the pumpking colors looked horrible with the edubuntu orange ...
<ogra> spacey, hey, its opensource ... worst we'll for it ;)
<spacey> yup
<spacey> true
<spacey> :)
<ogra> i have to look very deep into the code anyway
<jsgotangco> ogra: my conern here would be on disc space on the install cd because i currently have a document with screenshots, i'm not sure of the exact size yet so if you'd like an edubuntu specific doc in the cd space would be a concern
<ogra> if we want to get rid of the multiverse dependency
<ogra> jsgotangco, yes, it is 
<spacey> we encountered some bug that makes a few of the threads go beserk,
<kjcole> ogra, I got the impression that a lot looked bad with the orange, and people were saying "change the orange".
<spacey> i loved the orange
<jsgotangco> because it still mixes with the brown palettes
<ogra> kjcole, we have our own independent theme now ...
<jsgotangco> that's why it doesn't jive
<jsgotangco> but if you use pumpkin with gartoon, it'll look more like puke
<spacey> :>
<kjcole> (I wouldn't know because I installed edubuntu and then kubuntu-desktop on top of it...  Haven't flipped over to the GNOME side of things recently.)
<ogra> ah
<ogra> ok, thats it from the tech side ... oh, btw, i just looked, yesterdays liveCD seems not oversized ... you might try that one for checking the theme ...
<kjcole> New slogan "Puke: A theme for teenage boys."
<spacey> in what package does that edubuntu theme and garnome reside?
<flint> kjcole, lol
<spacey> not it edubuntu-artwork it seems
<ogra> spacey, edubuntu-artwork and gartoon-icon-theme
<jsgotangco> ive said my piece
<spacey> ah
<jsgotangco> my concern is disc space
<jsgotangco> if not, i'm satisified as a universe package
<ogra> we could save 8Mb by dropping firefox :)
<jsgotangco> would you?
<ogra> in favor of epiphany ? 
<flint> ogra, harsh, very harsh :^)
<jsgotangco> it's still moz
<jsgotangco> i'd use epi anytime
<ogra> (which is only 2MB big and has its translations already installed)
* jsgotangco acutally favors epi
<ogra> i dont favor either one ...
<spacey> ogra: i am in favour of epiphany :)
<spacey> :P
<spacey> gonna switch our terminal server this week
<spacey> and see how the users like it
<jsgotangco> ogra: would it be an issue if we drop something like firefox?
<spacey> but doesn' epiphany still depend on firefox?
<ogra> jsgotangco, i guess so ... 
<ogra> nope, 
<ogra> but yelp does, argh !
<spacey> ok thats great
<spacey> oh :p
<ogra> damned
<ogra> so we cant drop it
<spacey> maybe for dapper+1 :)
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> dropping ff *and* its translation packages would gain us a *lot*
<spacey> :)
<ogra> ok, and other doc news ? 
<ogra> s/and/any/
<spacey> i finished up the hardware requirements
<jsgotangco> ogra: but yelp relies on it
<spacey> for the cookbook
<jsgotangco> i think ooo relies on it too
<flint> ogra, sadly the way of this is to shave and prune, which is time consuming.  I like firefox.
<spacey> and the worksheet still didn't get any attention
<ogra> jsgotangco, i'm sure both would be fine with only libnspr ...
<spacey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuCookbook/HardwareRequirements
<ogra> they need gecko, but not all of firefox
<spacey> if someone can check it out for comments
* ogra looks
<spacey> needs some extra love i think
<spacey> but the main point is there
<ogra> wow
<ogra> i run 300MHz 64MB clients over here
<ogra> :)
<spacey> :P
<spacey> little details
<spacey> :)
<ogra> you should add a minimal specs section :)
<spacey> whats minimal
<spacey> 100mhz and 16mb of ram?
<ogra> but apart from that, very nice !!
<ogra> nope+
<flint> spacey, nice page
<ogra> 233MHz and 48MB i'd say
<spacey> ok
<spacey> i'll add that
<ogra> thats the absolute minimum
<spacey> another thing
<ogra> tested are, as i said, 300 and 64
<spacey> does ltsp over ssh takes the same amount of network as normal LSTP (without compression)?
<ogra> i heard it should take less than X transport 
<kjcole> I've got some horrible notes that I'm working on under "Getting Started".  It's a jumble trying to explain hubs, switches, and routers to the unwashed masses -- and I'm one of the unwashed.
<ogra> (but i have not measured it at all)
<ogra> kjcole, sounds great :)
<kjcole> It's kind of my notes as I learn about those "thingies" that are between my computer and the wall.
<flint> spacey, might want to say something about video card and network cards...
<ogra> i guess you all got that the release is delayed to july 1st 
<ogra> so we'll have some extra time for docs (just no space)
<spacey> flint: like what? 
<spacey> besides get an PXE one
<kjcole> ogra, From the resident atheist: "Praise be"
<ogra> heh
<kjcole> ogra (re: July 1.  The gods have smiled.)
<ogra> spacey, you should use a videocard with less than 2MB 
<flint> spacey, talk about the famous rom-o-matic, and link to supported (or unsupported) video cards.
<ogra> (thats the least for 1024x786@16bit)
<spacey> ogra: more then 2mb ?:)
<kjcole> But, July 1 is the RELEASE date... when's the last time we can hand in our homework and hope it will be graded?
<spacey> and you mean june 1st no july right?
<ogra> nope
<spacey> oh
<ogra> err
<ogra> yes, indeed
<ogra> 6-06 :)
<spacey> so 1st of june 2006
<spacey> :)
<spacey> to be clear
<ogra> yeah, sorry
<spacey> :)
<ogra> and s/should/shouldnt above indeed
<spacey> flint: it links to rom-o-matic already
<spacey> flint: i think any video card is supported as long as it does vesa or something
<ogra> and apart from the videoram issue, i wouldnt know what else to say about videocards
<jsgotangco> i gotta go first
<jsgotangco> nice meething though
<jsgotangco> ciao
<ogra> ciao jsgotangco 
<flint> spacey, I just did not see the link on the page...
<spacey> flint: well i didn't create a link section
<spacey> but its in the text
<spacey> ogra: so minimum 2m video ram?
<ogra> yep
<spacey> recommended video ram?
<ogra> 4 ? 
<ogra> dunno
<spacey> i have no idea either. never had problems with it
<flint> ogra, is it a min of 2 meg or a usable max or 2 megs ram?
<ogra> but do you have cards with less than 2m ?
<ogra> flint, min 2 meg 
<flint> ogra, if you want to talk trident I can talk trident.
<flint> :^)
<ogra> heh
<spacey> anything that does more then 256 colours and less then 2mb video ram?
<ogra> not at 1024x786
<spacey> :)
<flint> spacey, the problem I run into is that the video card will boot in a resolution that is higher than the cheezy monitor I have hanging on a random box and it will not lock.  
<ogra> which is the resolution we default to if nothing can be detected ...
<spacey> :>
<ogra> flint, then you need to use lts.conf to configure it
<flint> ogra, the ticket here is to tell the system <ctrl> <alt> - to drop or get a better monitor, so there is a montitor spec eh?
<flint> ogra, not a great one but the monitor should do 1280 X 1024 or something
<ogra> flint, i havent seen any monitors doing that ... in the rare cornercase where it might happen, you can manually adjust it in lts.conf
<flint> ogra, should a monitor spec be included?
<ogra> there is no monitor spec ...
* JaneW sneaks in and sits down quietly
<ogra> nope, i dont think so 
<spacey> kjcole: jelkner: the edubuntucookbookworksheet still has no status information. If you are gonna do it please do it, if you cannot manage to do it then please say so, so that someone else can do it.
<flint> ogra, keep in mind client systems are often not leading edge hardware...
<ogra> even standard svga monitors will provide the data needed for configuration ...
<flint> ogra, ok, I saw it once but I take your word on this.
<spacey> jelkner or kjcole still here?
<ogra> as i said, you can adjust it in lts.conf, thats what its for
<ogra> if you use such hardware, you will expect problems i guess ;) it was never easy to get bad hardware running 
<kjcole> spacey, still here.  though ISP still misbehaving. I'll say I can't manage.
<spacey> kjcole: ok, but all available information is in the wiki? or still text somewhere else?
<flint> spacey, they are, I am looking at the worksheet, what is it that has not been updated?
<flint> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuCookbook/Worksheet
<spacey> flint: the status field, which is really convienant
<kjcole> I took all the text as it was in Lore and put it into the wiki.  So as far as I know, that's the only set of document anyone is updating now.
<spacey> especially if someone is interesting in contributing
<spacey> i don't have access to that lore thing
<spacey> so i just put it in the wiki directly
<flint> spacey, there you have me, I susptect that no one but you and Herman have done anything this week worth posting.
<ozric> hail techone
<spacey> flint: i am herman
<ozric> tech ones*
<ogra> spacey, both of you ?
<ogra> :)
<kjcole> spacey, once I switched everything over, both jelkner and I have been working in the wiki.  Since we were the only two doing lore, I think the wiki is now the definitive source.
<flint> spacey, sincerely it is hard to stay this confused this much of the time :^)
<spacey> kjcole: ok thats good
<spacey> anyway if everything is in the wiki
<spacey> i'll fix up the status stuff and then call out for some more volunteers to write
<jelkner> spacey: i'm still here, but i've got to go soon
<flint> spacey, I like the wiki, and will update it when I get my lazy ass to contribute something...
<ogra> jelkner, any news from your side ? 
<spacey> if jdub adds me to planet someone might actually read it as well
<jelkner> yes
<kjcole> spacey, I subscribed to all the pages and had been noticing all the recent activity. Thanx.
* spacey will send to mailinglist as well
<jelkner> i started reworking the intro chapters now that i have a better understanding of what the cookbook is
<jelkner> i'm also working with flint on a recipe for using edubuntu in a multi-lingual environment
<jelkner> flint is wrting the recipe
<spacey> jelkner: i'll leave to chapters that someone assiged to themselves for what it is for now, but all the rest I will try to get a status thing 
<jelkner> i'll test it and put it in the book
<ogra> you should have a look at lts.conf settings etc as well ... wrt multi-lingual
<jelkner> spacy: good
<jelkner> flint: you still here?
<jelkner> ogra: he has been in touch with you, yes?
<pips1> ogra, cue me re website whenever you feel it's a good moment
<ogra> jelkner, yes, and i told him that it will be solved in ltsp in dapper+1  ... 
<jelkner> fine, but we need a recipe for now
<ogra> pips1, ok, added :)
<jelkner> that's the kind of thing the cookbook is for
<flint> yes i was just screwing up the status page.
<ogra> jelkner, might be, but please not in the cookbook
<jelkner> ogra: ??
<ogra> you are fiddling with files you should fiddle with (~/.dmrc) 
<jelkner> what do you mean, not in the cookbook?
<flint> ogra, yea buddy...
<ogra> it will be solved in a non intrusive way in dapper+1 
<ogra> please dont add breaking reciepes in the cookbook
<ogra> s/should/shouldnt/
<ogra> (seems to be my typo of the day :( )
<jelkner> my understanding of the role of the cookbook is something like "google hacks" from oreilly
<ogra> it will be solved in a sane manner
<pips1> ogra, what do you mean by that?
<jelkner> it will provide solutions to problems that have not been solved in an easy way in the distro yet
<ogra> jelkner, then please use the right way and manage it with language packs and tzhe language selector ... thats what they are for 
<spacey> thats not my understanding of the cookbook
<jelkner> spacey: what is your understanding of the cookbook?
<pips1> ogra, what would a 'breaking recipe' be?
<ogra> we have tools to achieve what you want, dont reinvent the wheel ...
<flint> ogra, what is a breaking reciepe?
<spacey> it get someone without knowledge going with edubuntu
<jelkner> spacey: that isn't going to happen
<jelkner> unless someone other than kevin and i takes it over
<ogra> pips1, a breaking reciepe would be "if you want this or that for all your users you add this shellscript to /etc/skel"
<spacey> if you wants hacks you should call it EdubuntuHacks
<jelkner> we are users, that kind of book needs to be written by core developers
<spacey> users don't hack
<pips1> ogra, ah! cheers :-)
<jelkner> spacey: are you volunteering to take over the cookbook?
<ogra> it will work, but is an evil hack
<jelkner> i'd be glad to turn over the keys to you
<jelkner> ;-)
<spacey> jelkner: i will consider it
<jelkner> just let me know
<spacey> first want that status information
<spacey> since know i have no idea what needs to be done
<jelkner> and kevin and i can work on "Edubuntu Community Hacks"
<jelkner> i felt at this point that things like that could go in the cookbook
<jelkner> since it would basically be a collection of "recipes"
<ogra> jelkner, you misunderstand me 
<jelkner> and would be community driven
<spacey> jelkner: i'm not a core developer but I feel what people need it a good introduction and understand how things work in edubuntu. 
<flint> ogra, actually we are all evil hackers :^)
<spacey> what was your perception of this ogra?
<jelkner> spacey: there are 2 ways you could make that happen (since i can't):
<ogra> if you make reciepes like these, that can be solved easily with thre or five clicks in the gui tool, please dont reinvent the wheel and add weird hacks ..
<spacey> its no use to hack around if the basics and workings are unfamiliar
<kjcole> My own "grand vision" for what the cookbook ought to be is two-part:
<jelkner> 1. you could add recipes to the current cookbook
<ogra> thats my concern
<ogra> not that this reciepe is added
<jelkner> 2. we could decide that is in essence what the cookbook should be and someone with the ability to make it that should take it over
<spacey> jelkner: i love the idea of recipes but first you need to know how to make the basic ingrediens
<ogra> we have the multi-language tools on board ...
<kjcole> the first part was largely tuxLab-like in nature: get non-technical folks -- teachers primarily -- exited and interested in a cheap lab where they have a lot of control, and give them the tools to set it up.
<ogra> one target of the cookbook should be to promote what we have and its right usage ...
<jelkner> ogra: then the current "recipe" should reflect the currently possible best way to do it
<flint> ogra, if a teacher needs internationalization, and a command line script does the job, then it also instructs the gui tool builder of the future.
<jelkner> i'm a field worker setting up edubuntu out in the community
<ogra> jelkner, which is not by editing rc files
<jelkner> i want to take care of the customers needs
<jelkner> as soon as possible
<jelkner> so i see recipes as way to do that
<kjcole> part two would be recipes or "hacks" for the day-to-day, I-need-it-now-and-don't-have-time-for-the-perfect-solution, problems.
<ogra> yes
<flint> ogra, if you cannot edit rc files what can you edit?
<spacey> i'm a field worker as well
<spacey> if you want to call it like that
<ogra> flint, you can edit waht ou want ... but there is a better way
<pips1> kjcole ++
<flint> ogra, and when the "better way" shows up, then it becomes the new reciepe
<jelkner> exactly
<ogra> flint, there *is* a better way since hoary !
<jelkner> then why don't we know it
<spacey> kjcole: anyway the first part is the most important one IMHO and its needs to be finished
<ogra> dunno ...
<ogra> i can only point again to language packs, keamap selector in gnome and the language selector
<flint> ogra,  whenever we ask for a feature (say local storage) we get told that it will not go in.  local storage might become a reciepe
<jelkner> well, students are arriving, i need to run...
<ogra> flint, thats fine 
<pips1> spacey, kjcole I agree about 1. basics 2. hacks
<kjcole> ogra, the big problem with GUI solutions is you need an artist. ;-)  My thoughts would be to try to get people less frightened of the command-line and editing files, while not badmouthing GUI solutions.
<flint> ogra, I tried that as did elkner, you have to be at the terminal to switch languages.  The teacher is at the console.
<spacey> pips1: are you interested in writing up some stuff in the cookbook later on?
<ogra> kjcole, but do you agree, its easier to explain how to start a specific app and check two checkboxes next to your language than scaring users by adding third party scripts that edit rc files ?
<pips1> jelkner, flint : do you feel the "basics" don't need to be in the cookbook?
<ogra> if you make reciepes, please try to make them the most userfriendly way
<ogra> anyway, we're running out of time 
<pips1> spacey, I don't have much linux experience under my hat, and I'm busy with edubuntu website already, sorry
<flint> pips1, basics should be in the default browser page on the CD. the book suplements the edubuntu CD eh?
<ogra> pips1, so tell us about the website
<spacey> pips1: ok, np, just checking for possible victims:)
<pips1> flint, right
<ogra> hey highvoltage ...
<kjcole> ogra, agreed.  Scripts are cool, but if users are going to fool around with editing, it should be them doing the editing, not a third party script -- at least not without a lot of up-front explaination first.
<flint> ogra, I promise you that both you and elkner will be upset with the reciepes, equally upset.
<pips1> highvoltage, good timing!
<pips1> ok, here I go re website
<highvoltage> hi ogra, pips1, kjcole and flint 
<highvoltage> running late, sorry!
<ogra> flint, i just expect it to be written in a "ubuntu" way
<pips1> I'm thinking about the maintenance of the website. Not just in terms of technical maintenance, but in terms of content maintenance and successfully supporting a community. And hopefully, sustained growth of the community beyond our wildest dreams ;-)
<flint> highvoltage, excellent we were just going on about the documentation.  I still like TuxLab Jonathan.
<highvoltage> :)
<ogra> flint, have a look at the ubuntu server guide (installed in dapper by default)
<pips1> Regarding features on the website, I'd like to start small and add more as the need arises. However, I think the first impression is important. We want to inspire enthusiasm, but avoid hype, IMO. Managing expectations is important.
<highvoltage> pips1: that maintenance is what i committed to two weeks ago :)
<kjcole> spacey, also agreed regarding the first part of the cookbook being more important.  That reaches out to the unconverted and nervous.
<flint> ogra, give me a url...
<highvoltage> pips1: well said
<pips1> So, it'd be nice to foster a community around Edubuntu, not just sysadmins, but also teachers and students. I don't want to replicate stuff that's already available elsewhere on the web... so, how what's our "place"? 
<ogra> flint, its in your help browser in dapper
<pips1> What users to we want to cater for? 
<flint> ogra, gotcha. will look.
<pips1> What content is the "core edubuntu team" (i.e. us, here) going to provide?
<highvoltage> pips1: the website should be several things, i think
<pips1> What content are new users expected to be able to contribute, besides documentation? What communication about non-technical subjects should we encourage? What about curriculum development with edu apps, e.g.? Should the Edubuntu really cater for that?
<kjcole> high, highvoltage ;-)
<highvoltage> 1) It should cater for educators looking for help and documentation on edubuntu
<highvoltage> 2) id should cater for those who want to do a roll-out of edubuntu labs, and need help
<ogra> it should also be a meeting point for users ...
<highvoltage> btw- these are just my thoughts, they are not set in stone and completely subject to change by your imput :)
<highvoltage> 3) it should also be a meeting point for users
<ogra> heh :)
<highvoltage> :)
<highvoltage> and for people working collaboratively on edubuntu, aka the edubuntu community
<jdub> spacey: did anyone ever tell you that you look *just like* jorn baayen?
<ogra> yep
* highvoltage notes this down
<spacey> jdub: no one :)
<spacey> who is it?
<highvoltage> pips1: any thoughts on this?
<jdub> spacey: author of muine, original author of rhythmbox.
<pips1>  What about curriculum development with edu apps, e.g.? Should the Edubuntu really cater for that?
<spacey> jdub: link?
<highvoltage> pips1: imo, it could eventually. there's certainly a need, and demand for that.
<kjcole> pips1, it's a selling point, so probably yes.
<ogra> pips1, we should encourage it ...
<highvoltage> pips1: i don't think we currently have all the people we have for that, but it's something we should keep in mind with the design, because it's likely to spread in those areas in the future
<spacey> jdub: apparently i look like a lot of people, last time i went to the sportcenter some girl cursed at me for not recognizing her :p
<highvoltage> spacey: yeah, i get that a lot
<pips1> There are websites dedicated to educational content already, I don't know too much re website on curriculum development... as I said, I mainly want to know what to focus on, to avoid duplication.
<jdub> spacey: hrm, can't find picture.
<spacey> jdub: you added me to planet, thanks :)
<pips1> If we want to encourage a certain type of content and user contributions, I feel we need to have a bit of content of that sort there already, to get it started...
<jdub> spacey: saw your hackergotchi in the process, had to double check it was the one from your email :)
<kjcole> I also think it's very, very important to stress the idea that this is about community.  I've recently had a teacher that I encouraged to switch to Ubuntu instead try Mephis because someone gave it to him.
<spacey> :)
<flint> pips1, at this time, the big threat I see to this documentation activity is the flash screen capture and voice over programs under windows, these work GREAT and make for quick documentation of a programming environment.  There is nothing like it in our arsenal.
<spacey> jdub: more edubuntu coming up @ planet now :P
<ogra> yay
<kjcole> He went down the road alone, and now is lost, in spite of me trying to encourage him to ask questions.  He's about ready to give up, and I've told him I'll sit down with him and Edubuntu...
* ogra should start blogging again as well ...
<pips1> flint, right
<jdub> spacey: sweet!
<jdub> spacey: edubuntu means cakes.
<highvoltage> pips1: sorry, did we loose track of what you were saying about the website?
<spacey> :P
<pips1> highvoltage, well, sort of :-)
<spacey> sorry pips1:)
<kjcole> jdub, the way to a man's stomach is through his computer? ;-)
<flint> pips1, do you remember the names of these flash generators under windows?  I have been trying for several days to remember (getting old sucks :^)
<highvoltage> there's one for linux that works ok'ish, called 'wink'
<ogra> pips1, lets make a call to the mailing list for defaul content selection
<spacey> kjcole: and getting to his stomach means love
<ogra> we have a bunch of educators reading it :)
<flint> highvoltage, yea it is a wimzical combination of audio capture and vnc right?
<pips1> ogra, regarding blogging, drupal offers blogging out of the box, would you be interested in enabling a blog section on the new website then? (of course, blogs can always be easily integrated via rss feeds)? what do you say?
<highvoltage> flint: i don't think it uses vnc
<ogra> pips1, sure, sounds good ...
<pips1> ogra, good idea to make a call on the list, I was thinking the same thing :-)
<spacey> pips1: in a non intrusive way:)
<pips1> spacey, what do you mean?
<ogra> so you mean something like planet.edubuntu ? 
<spacey> well i don't think its really important for the website
<ogra> or even hosting the blogs ? 
<spacey> ogra: drupal can do both i think
<pips1> ogra, it could simply be a section (main navigation item) "blog" on the website
<ogra> yep
<ogra> ok, we're out of time, lets move that discussion to the list ...
<kjcole> Would it be useful to have a more formal web-based survey anywhere to collect thoughts/wish-lists in some organized fashion?
<spacey> ok :)
<pips1> in drupal, every user could have their own blog, *if* we wanted 
<ogra> any other artwork related info apart from the tech update ?
<kjcole> Oops. We ARE out of time, which means I'm going to be late for work...  ta-ta.
<pips1> every user = every user with an account
<flint> kjcole, stay well whatch the traffic!
<ogra> pips1, could you contact the LP people if its possible to attach the account management to launchpad ? 
<pips1> ogra, that's currently actually a todo item on highvoltage's list :-)
<ogra> it would be nice if we culd do the member management of the website via the edubuntu team in launchpad
<ogra> ah, k
<ogra> so anyone up with additional artwork tasks ? 
<pips1> highvoltage, you still here?
<ajmitch> ogra: you'd need to use launchpad's authserver then, I think
<ogra> ajmitch, fine ... as long as it works :)
<ogra> ok, no artwork it seems ...
<ogra> JaneW, community/management issues you want to talk about ? 
<highvoltage> pips1: sorry, just arrived in the office and people are bugging me
<ogra> ok, given that we are 20min over time, lets close that meeting now ... seems there are no open topics anymore for now ...
<JaneW> ogra: *thinks*
* flint flint is comfortable with the trouble he has caused for this morning...
<JaneW> oh yes we have entered Edubuntu into the Prix Arz Electronica 2006 competition
<JaneW> ogra: did you get my mail?
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> yep
<JaneW> you able to mail it off, or should I just do it from here?
<ogra> no, i'm fine mailing it
<JaneW> I thought it was more likely to get there from you
<JaneW> our snail mail service sucks
<highvoltage> flint: that's not the attitude!
<JaneW> thanks
<ogra> i'll trow it in today ...
<ogra> *throw
<JaneW> ogra: I praised you in your bio
<JaneW> and said you deserve and award!
<ogra> heh, really ? 
<JaneW> and=an
<flint> highvoltage, indeed :^)
<ogra> :)
<JaneW> ogra: so I hope you get it :))
<flint> ogra, if for nothing else for stoic patience, and I mean that.
<JaneW> is everything else on track?
<highvoltage> JaneW: what's this that ogra's getting?
<flint> JaneW, everything is fine, nothing to see here... just move on... yea, that's it
<ogra> JaneW, apart from the CDs being oversized (which is never news)...
<JaneW> the entry form has to be printed signed and physically mailed to be valid
<JaneW> *shrug*
<JaneW> odd I know
<ogra> we were discussin the option to drop firefox... but to many things depend directly on it (which is a bug imho)
<flint> is this Prix Arz Electronica 2006 a particular nationality, I would prefer french so as to anger the bush admin.
<ogra> flint, austrian 
<ogra> relatively popular in the german speaking europe ...
<flint> ogra, that will only mildly annoy our state department :^(
<ogra> ok, lest move to #edubuntu 
<spacey> k
<ogra> xubuntu wants the room...
<ogra> (in 30 min)
<flint> ogra, thanks see you there in about the same, gotta get a cigar.
<flint> sksk
<ogra> :)
<Seveas> ogra, beware of the janimo :)
<ogra> hehe
<ogra> yep :)
<janimo> Seveas, no prob go ahead
<janimo> we can wait
<Seveas> janimo, I was just joking
<janimo> Seveas: ah ok :)
<Seveas> ogra's groupies have finished already
<nomed> hi all
<janimo> nomed: hi
<nomed> hey janimo 
<nomed> nice news from xarchiver :)
<nomed> benny and the xarchiver has had an irc session ...
<nomed> it's really possible it'll be adopted as xfce archive manager
<janimo> nomed, yes just read xfce-devel
<janimo> did you put the mail client issue on the agenda?
<nomed> yes
<janimo> good
<janimo> I was just thinking about that these days
<janimo> whether to use sylpheed/t-bird or nothing by default
<Seveas> janimo, mutt ;)
<janimo> Seveas: mutt-gtk
<janimo> ;)
<Seveas> there IS such a thing?
<janimo> nope :)
<nomed> mutt-ng :)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Mar 14:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 23 Mar 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 29 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 30 Mar 02:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 31 Mar 21:00 UTC: Documentation Team
<janimo> mutt-gtk-ng-claws
<Seveas> uh?
<Seveas> Ubugtu, broken crappy thing
<nomed> janimo, it exists really :D
<Seveas> ogra, or was the edubuntu meeting only 1 hour?
<janimo> mutt-ng  I know
<nomed> i used it for a while it was really cool ...
<janimo> has nntp among othres
<nomed> then i just use web frontend
<janimo> wonder why it's not in ubuntu as it was in deb experimental almost a year ago I think
<ogra> Seveas, 80min
<Seveas> ogra, I meen fridge-scheduled
<ogra> usually we only have 1h, yes
<Seveas> ah, then Ubugtu is not broken
<Seveas> @schedule Europe/Bucharest
<Ubugtu> Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Mar 16:00: Xubuntu | 23 Mar 22:00: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 23:00: Technical Board | 29 Mar 15:00: Edubuntu | 30 Mar 05:00: Dapper Development Status | 01 Apr 00:00: Documentation Team
<Seveas> hah, even with correct DST handling (!)
<janimo> Seveas: hmm what's with the non-UTC time?
<Seveas> janimo, it's a feature for people who have difficulties calculating in UTC
<janimo> Seveas: so is ubugtu translating? cool
<janimo> I feared for a moment I set the meeting time in EET
<Seveas> no, Ubugtu will complain if you do that
<ajmitch> Seveas: yes, it handled the NZST->NZDT change right when it happened
<Seveas> he wants to manage the topic ;)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Xubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 23 Mar 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 29 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 30 Mar 02:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 31 Mar 21:00 UTC: Documentation Team
<janimo> ok let's start
<janimo> hello all
<Gloubiboulga> hi Jani
<janimo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XubuntuMeetingAgenda
<janimo> hi Gauvain
<janimo> item 1) mail client
<janimo> it was discussed previously that we should go one of the sylpheeds
<janimo> preferebaly claws
<nomed> janimo, i agree
<Gloubiboulga> sounds logical, it's lighter than TB
<nomed> but maybe for dapper wouldn't it better to use thunderbird ?
<janimo> there is still no mail client in the default desktop
<nomed> i mean ... any problem to get it in main ?
<janimo> I summarized lightly the pros/cons I see with sylpheed/t-bird no client
<janimo> on that pahe
<janimo> nomed, not as much of a problem of getting it in main
<janimo> s/pahe/page/
<janimo> but subsequent support
<janimo> I did not hear bad things about s-claws
<janimo> but did not use it either
<janimo> I do not know how it stands re stability and security
<nomed> from what i know it should be ok
<janimo> I remember Colin (sylpheed claws developer) assured us on xubuntu-devel that all is good
<nomed> yep i remember
<janimo> so the only con is that it is not in main and we'd put another extra package  in the list to support
<janimo> I am wondering if this is worth it considering that most non-techincal people will not use pop/imap/nntp AFAIK
<nomed> i think xubuntu should have a mail client
<janimo> and those who do will pick their favourite client anyway
<janimo> nomed: that's waht I was thinking about. should it?
<nomed> sylpheed claws  as first for me
<nomed> if there are problems ... thunderbird
<nomed> but we should have one
<janimo> how do we know there are problems
<janimo> and what are problems in this context?
<janimo> the latest claws is still not in dapper form what I saw
<nomed>  we'd put another extra package  in the list to support<--
<janimo> neither claws not t-bird do what evolution does not by default at least (cal, palm sync, talk to exchange etc)
<janimo> so the corpporate desktop scenario where users must use such a client is not valid imho
<janimo> whereas normal people mostly use the web
<janimo> a web interface for mail I mean
<nomed> yes that's true
<irvin> janimo: i agree with that
<janimo> what I don't know is how many people would use a pop/imap client just as naturally as they do gaim/firefox
<nomed> but on a distro i would expect a mail client anyway ...
<janimo> it is not the tipical non-geek use case
<janimo> nomed, yes that expectance I am aware of, was just thinking it may need revisiting
<nomed> janimo, at the moment there is not a mail client that can do the same as evolution
<janimo> kmail and evo are shipped not necessarily because of this expectance but because they are core parts of gnoom/kde
<nomed> from what i know
<nomed> but thunderbird exists even for windows users
<janimo> nomed, that is a blessing actually :)
<janimo> re evolution not windows
<janimo> nomed, s-claws runs on win32 too
<janimo> original sylpheed does at least
<nomed> it should yes 
<nomed> but i think most of windows users uses thunderbird if not outlook
<janimo> so maybe we should release the first ISO's with no mail client and state that in the announcement
<nomed> yep
<janimo> if the feedback is mostly negative recosider
<janimo> I find t-birds interface more usable than sylpheeds so that is a plus
<janimo> too bad it's not as light
<janimo> other opinions?
<ranf> Is mutt in main?
<nomed> as gnu/linux user i would have claws
<janimo> ranf, I suppose but that's not GUI
<nomed> but as new gnu/linux user i guess i would be happy to see thunderbird
<janimo> opinions whether to have a mail client by default or not for now
<janimo> not which one to pick
<janimo> nomed, indeed the emphasis should be on new users as with the rest of the desktop
<nomed> well ... i think we should have one as i told
<janimo> the more experienced ones know they way around to pick their favourite
<nomed> janimo, what i think is that if galago will be part of dapper +1
<nomed> then we should follow claws development
<nomed> but for dapper thunderbird is the best one i think
<janimo> nomed, do they collaborate or why?
<janimo> galago and claws  I mean
<nomed> janimo, when the claws devel contacted xubuntu
<nomed> i asked if it was possible to integrate galago
<nomed> and he told he didn't know that stuff
<nomed> but he was happy to work on that
<janimo> nomed, ah ok. Anyway we'll see if galago will be part of dapper +1 first 
<nomed> that's why i was thinking claws should be the xubuntu mail client
<nomed> and that's why i think at the moment thunderbird is the best one
<janimo> but since galago is not here yet that cannot be a reason for claws at this moment
<janimo> ok
<janimo> item 2) xrachiver
<janimo> not much to discuss here right?
<nomed> yep
<janimo> seems well on track with upstream collaborating
<nomed> exactly
<janimo> Gloubiboulga: do you know what the exact problems are with xkb?
<janimo> does upstream test on dapper by any chance?
<Gloubiboulga> janimo, yes, it doesn't detect the different keymaps
<Gloubiboulga> he works on debian unstable
<Gloubiboulga> I try to see how he could use libxkeyboard
<janimo> ok that's close enough
<Gloubiboulga> libxklavier*
<janimo> :)
<janimo> so it does not yet work for him either on debian?
<irvin> can i butt in a quick question (i hope it's not offtopic)... i only saw abiword as the office suite in xubuntu, is there a plan to include others (e.g., gnumeric)?
<Gloubiboulga> it does work for him, but the plugin doesn't manage all the config possibilities of X
<janimo> irvin, gnumeric will probably be on the CD but not by default
<janimo> as it uses gnome deps which so far we had not time to tackle
<irvin> i see
<janimo> upstream is buildable without gnome but the debian packaging does not take advantage of this
<janimo> irvin, do you think it is a porb if it is not installed by default?
<janimo> Gloubiboulga: ok but he'll probably figure it out I guess.
<Gloubiboulga> janimo, yes, I think he will
<irvin> janimo: yes i think so
<janimo> irvin, why?
<janimo> the speardsheet is one of the apps I also think are not for most regular users
<janimo> unlike a word processor
<janimo> hence the lower priority in getting it in shape
<irvin> janimo: i beg to differ, but i see a lot of spreadsheet users on low-end computers
<janimo> irvin, fair enough
<irvin> janimo: there should be at least a word processor and a spreadsheet app in xubuntu
<janimo> but aren;t they more specialized users than average home user?
<irvin> janimo: personally i use more often, as i deal with numbers (engineering work) all the time
<janimo> like, office people and such
<janimo> ok, engineers, clerks etc
<janimo> but gramma? :)
<nomed> janimo, students in general may need it ....
<janimo> as with the email app I am trying to think not in terms of what a regular advert looks for an os (document,spreadsheets,music, mail)
<janimo> but actually what is getting used more often
<janimo> especially in schools, net cafes, shared terminal in libraries and such
<nomed> janimo, yes i understand 
<janimo> but I know it is essential for some users so it i=definitely is on the CD
<janimo> I am just wondering about the default install
<janimo> and the only thing preventing the latter is that gnumeric stil has gnome deps
<nomed> janimo, gnumeric is not gnome free
<irvin> janimo: what's wrong with having it installed by default?
<nomed> so ..
<nomed> we can work on it .. but we 're still few devels 
<janimo> irvin, we had a semi-official policy for xubuntu
<nomed> i hope for dapper +1 this will change
<irvin> i guess we'll have to look for an alternative to gnumeric
<janimo> not having gnome/kde apps in the defaqult install
<janimo> to keep install slim
<janimo> irvin, no gnomeric is the best alternaive I am sure no need for alternatives
<Gloubiboulga> it looks like gnumeric can be built without gnome stuff, someone tested this already ?
<janimo> Gloubiboulga: I know it works since it runs on windows :)
<Gloubiboulga> in this case, why not creating a gnumeric-gtk package ?
<janimo> I talked to the debian maintainer and he said he'd take clean patches to make a gnumeric-gtk binary too
<janimo> but it is not too easy
<Gloubiboulga> ok
<janimo> since it depends on libgoffice
<janimo> which can also build without gnome
<janimo> so we need to 1) make a goffice and goffice-gtk
<janimo> then a gnumeric-gtk which uses goffice-gtk
<janimo> it is actually doable just was a mess when I tried last time
<janimo> given the interest, the 6 extra weeks and that I'd also like gnumeric installed by default I think this needs another try
<Gloubiboulga> yep
<janimo> Gloubiboulga: would you be interested? :)
<Gloubiboulga> yes, I am :)
<nomed> cool!
<irvin> \o/ for Gloubiboulga
<janimo> ok let's discuss this after the meeting
<janimo> which may be right now :)
<Gloubiboulga> I'll call for help if I fail ;)
<janimo> \0/ for Gloubiboulga
<Gloubiboulga> janimo, sorry I have to leave right now (already late)
<janimo> ideally we'd cooperate with upstream debian packager since he was open to the idea
<janimo> just did not want to do it himself
<janimo> Gloubiboulga: np
<janimo> we can discuss another time
<Gloubiboulga> ok
<Gloubiboulga> cu later 
<janimo> irvin: ok so thanks for prodding we'll take a shot at tthis
<irvin> ok
<irvin> janimo: no prob
<janimo> ok if there's nothing else to talk about
<nomed> janimo, shouldn't be removed from mirrors old pkges ?
<janimo> we can end the meeting
<janimo> nomed, right we should
<janimo> but that needs communicating with LP admins or whoever else
<janimo> I think there's a wikipage with candidates for removal
<janimo> I don;t know which is it
<janimo> and I think someone regularly purges it
<janimo> but this may just be a myth
<nomed> any of them here ?
<janimo> we definitely need to purge our old packages before release
<nomed> we can list all of them and ask then ..
<janimo> I don;t think any xfce package is put there,no
<janimo> nomed, sure
<janimo> the ones we talked about last time right?
<janimo> old plugins + toys
<nomed> yes
<janimo> if you find that page feel free to add them :)
<nomed> k :)
<janimo> but with plugins which are not explicitely superceded wait a bit later
<janimo> since they may get ported
<nomed> sure
<janimo> by dapper
<janimo> ok
<janimo> thanks
<nomed> cu next meeting 
<janimo> ok, end of meeting I'll try to summarize it and send a mail
<janimo> bye all
<nomed> bye
<ranf> bye
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 23 Mar 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 29 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 30 Mar 02:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 31 Mar 21:00 UTC: Documentation Team | 03 Apr 09:00 UTC: Community Council
<dholbach> @schedule Europe/Berlin
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 23 Mar 21:00: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 22:00: Technical Board | 29 Mar 14:00: Edubuntu | 30 Mar 04:00: Dapper Development Status | 31 Mar 23:00: Documentation Team | 03 Apr 11:00: Community Council
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-03-28
<Seveas> @schedule amsterdam
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Amsterdam: 23 Mar 21:00: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 22:00: Technical Board | 29 Mar 14:00: Edubuntu | 30 Mar 04:00: Dapper Development Status | 31 Mar 23:00: Documentation Team | 03 Apr 11:00: Community Council
<Mez> Seveas, nice feature
<Mez> @schedule Birmingham
<Mez> :'(
<Mithrandir> @schedule Oslo
<Mez> @schedule London
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Oslo: 23 Mar 21:00: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 22:00: Technical Board | 29 Mar 14:00: Edubuntu | 30 Mar 04:00: Dapper Development Status | 31 Mar 23:00: Documentation Team | 03 Apr 11:00: Community Council
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/London: 23 Mar 20:00: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 21:00: Technical Board | 29 Mar 13:00: Edubuntu | 30 Mar 03:00: Dapper Development Status | 31 Mar 22:00: Documentation Team | 03 Apr 10:00: Community Council
<Mithrandir> Mez: too small city. :-P
<MarioMeyer> @schedule Brazil/East
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Brazil/East: 23 Mar 17:00: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 17:00: Technical Board | 29 Mar 09:00: Edubuntu | 29 Mar 23:00: Dapper Development Status | 31 Mar 18:00: Documentation Team | 03 Apr 06:00: Community Council
<Mez> Mithrandir, :P
<Seveas> Mez, ubugtu sent you a notice with a url 
<Seveas> go there to find all recognized timezones
<Mez> Seveas, i noticed )
<Seveas> gotta run - later!
<fabbione> @schedule Kbenhavn
<fabbione> tsk :)
<fabbione> @schedule Copenhagen
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Copenhagen: 23 Mar 21:00: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 22:00: Technical Board | 29 Mar 14:00: Edubuntu | 30 Mar 04:00: Dapper Development Status | 31 Mar 23:00: Documentation Team | 03 Apr 11:00: Community Council
<fabbione> so it's this evening..
<robitaille> @topic
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 23 Mar 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 27 Mar 15:00 UTC: Bug Squad | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 29 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 30 Mar 02:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 31 Mar 21:00 UTC: Documentation Team
<robitaille> Bug Squad meeting on Monday :)
<simira> JaneW: ping
<JaneW> simira: pong
<kentborg> @schedule boston
<Seveas> Ubugtu, 
<sorush21> hi guys
<sivang>  /topic
<Kinnison> @schedule Europe/London
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/London: 23 Mar 20:00: Dapper Development Status | 27 Mar 16:00: Bug Squad | 28 Mar 21:00: Technical Board | 29 Mar 13:00: Edubuntu | 30 Mar 03:00: Dapper Development Status | 31 Mar 22:00: Documentation Team
<lucas> @schedule Europe/Paris
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: 23 Mar 21:00: Dapper Development Status | 27 Mar 17:00: Bug Squad | 28 Mar 22:00: Technical Board | 29 Mar 14:00: Edubuntu | 30 Mar 04:00: Dapper Development Status | 31 Mar 23:00: Documentation Team
<lucas> wow, that's great
<Seveas> @schedule works in /msg too 
<lucas> does it work on other channels too ? because Seveas will soon complain
<lucas> ah
<lucas> he already did ;)
<Seveas> and no, not in other channels 
<Seveas> 
<ogra> like /msg Ubugtu @schedule Europe/Amsterdam ?
<Seveas> yep
<ogra> ah, coo
<ogra> l
<Seveas> and you don't need complete timezones
<Seveas> @schedule berlin
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 23 Mar 21:00: Dapper Development Status | 27 Mar 17:00: Bug Squad | 28 Mar 22:00: Technical Board | 29 Mar 14:00: Edubuntu | 30 Mar 04:00: Dapper Development Status | 31 Mar 23:00: Documentation Team
<ogra> @schedule blankenheim 
<ogra> ;P
<Seveas> then Ubugtu sends you a note with a url where you can find all zones 
<ogra> yep
<Seveas> btw: why is there no pytz package for Ubuntu?
<ogra> no idea 
<ogra> ask doko
<Seveas> urgh
<Seveas> it's python-tz
<ajmitch> Seveas: as it should be named..
<Seveas> ajmitch, indeed 
<Seveas> btw, it's not there on hoary (Ubugtu runs on a hoary machine :))
<ajmitch> that's great - we're not adding any new packages to hoary :)
<Seveas> I just setup.py'd it 
<ajmitch> fine :)
<sivang> Seveas: what about adding Asia/Israel to the list of timezones?
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Dapper Development Status | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 Mar 15:00 UTC: Bug Squad | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 29 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 30 Mar 02:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 31 Mar 21:00 UTC: Documentation Team
<Seveas> sivang, that one is simply called 'Israel'
<Seveas> or Asia/Tel_Aviv
<JaneW> ping: BenC, doko, dholbach, fabbione, heno, infinty, iwj, Kamion, keybuk, Kinnison, ogra, pitti, seb128, Riddell
* JaneW starts the pre-meeting round-up
* pitti waves
<dholbach> JaneW: pong
<doko> JaneW: you're too early, go away! ;-P
* ogra looks around
<dholbach> JaneW: seb128 might be a bit late, around 5min
<Riddell> hi JaneW 
<JaneW> hi pitti, dholbach, ogra, doko, Riddell (doko: Matt starts asking from 5 mins before...)
<JaneW> dholbach: ok thanks
<BenC> JaneW: pong
<fabbione> JaneW: i am here and it is 7/6 minutes before :P
<dholbach> JaneW: pongpongpongpong :)
<JaneW> hi BenC and fabbione 
<JaneW> fabbione: yes and I need a few minutes to find out who is here! :P
<fabbione> JaneW: tsk.. you are getting slow ;)
<JaneW> I would happily be elsewhere otherwise ;)
<fabbione> so do I...
<fabbione> i wanna play with my new toys
* dholbach hugs everybody :)
<JaneW> heh
<seb128> JaneW: pong
<seb128> on time!!
<seb128> :)
<dholbach> seb128: wowhoo! :)
<Kamion> here
<JaneW> ping: heno (but prolly won't attend), iwj, Kamion, keybuk, Kinnison (not sure if he is attending)
<JaneW> hi seb128 
<seb128> hey JaneW :)
<JaneW> hi Kamion and iwj, and infinity 
* iwj rushes to put the coffee on.
<JaneW> iwj: 1 min ;)
<JaneW> ping:  Kinnison ...?
* Kinnison is here
<JaneW> do we need Kinnison here?
<JaneW> oh cool
<JaneW> hi Kinnison 
<Kinnison> Sorry, it was 19:59 and I hadn't switched to here :-)
<fabbione> brb
<JaneW> np, I start herding everyone from 10 mins before...
<JaneW> sometimes we need to phone and wake ppl ;)
<Kinnison> :-)
<Mithrandir> I'll be around in five to ten minutes
<JaneW> Mithrandir: wow
<JaneW> so we are only missing mvo, who gave appologies as he has a scheduled team practise at this time
<JaneW> everyone else is here
<JaneW> ping: mdz
<fabbione> re
* Kinnison murfs as he realises he's written nearly 1.5kB for his blurb for this meeting
<sivang> Kinnison: wow
<JaneW> Kinnison: omg!
<JaneW> Kinnison: it better be GOOD
<Kinnison> :-)
* JaneW kicks jdub and dholbach in the shins
<dholbach> JaneW: HUH???
<Seveas> dholbach, you probably sais something bad about her soup
<dholbach> JaneW: is that the "torturous things" you were talking about earlier?
* dholbach doesn't say more around here, we're in a meeting ;)
<Kamion> is mdz at a sprint at the moment? I haven't seen him for a while
<iwj> Um.  I have to go on time at 2100, pretty much.  What's the hold-up ?
<Kamion> We should start anyway
<Kamion> BenC: you're up
<BenC> Dapper Kernel Status:
<BenC> - Bugs are continuing to be the major workload. Think I'm finally in a workflow to where I can keep up with them.
<BenC> - This week IBM initiated our server kernels into the ABAT (Automated Build And Test) system. They will be doing regular build, boot, stress, LTP runs of our -server, -server-bigiron, -amd64-server and -powerpc64-smp (pseries) kernels.
<BenC> - Major updates to the kernel include: ipw2200 1.1.1 + patches, should make a lot of people happy. ipw3945 will be included in the next upload.
<ogra> Kamion, i think i saw him, saying good morning in his TZ ...
<Kamion> BenC: LTP?
<BenC> Linux Test Project
<BenC> it's just a bonus, not something we really need
<Kamion> what sort of feedback do we expect to get from IBM?
<fabbione> mdz is at the dentist iirc
<Kamion> daily web report of results, something like that?
<BenC> they are sending us the entire log of the build, boot and run
<JaneW> dholbach: yes :P
<BenC> right
<sorush21> Seveas: how about adding Palestine too? 
<sivang> BenC: will they test it on p5 eServer machines?
<Seveas> sorush21, there's a meeting - please don't interfere
<BenC> sivang: yeah, which is another good thing, since we don't have any tests of pSeries ppc64
<Kamion> ok, thanks Ben
<Kamion> dholbach: 
<dholbach> icon-mission: basic workflow with art team implemented, needs announce, one feature in icon page missing
<dholbach> this week (done): started catching up on bug triage (~2900 -> 1900 unread desktop bugs mails), random fixes
<dholbach> this week (todo): more bug triage, bugsquad announce, bug day announce
<dholbach> next week: bug day, bug triage, bugsquad meeting (monday, 15 utc)
<sivang> dholbach: it's all about bugs :)
* Kamion hands dholbach the bug hat. Happy insect-squashing.
<dholbach> sivang: momentarily yes, new gnome in 3 weeks or something - i really hope the bug squad launch will have success
<dholbach> there are a lot of community members working already
<Kamion> How's the bug day participation developing.
<Kamion> ?
<dholbach> but if we can lal make it more organized, that'd help
<sivang> dholbach: yes, it seems growing ever since it started.
<dholbach> more lists of stuff people can easily get working on
<dholbach> and maybe a workflow for NEW bugs against Ubuntu (unspecified)
<seb128> Kamion: that would be nice if we could have some other people than dholbach or me participating from the distro team 
<dholbach> people usually ask "where do I start?", if we can make that easier and think of clever ways together that'd be nice
<infinity> I've shown up on a couple of bug days, but there isn't much activity during my timezone (nor much excitement without dholbach around hugging everyone)
<dholbach> i'll send the announce for the bug squad meeting tomorrow
<Kamion> seb128: I agree. mdz's promised dedicated time for some people to spend on bug-fixing during the six-week dapper extension, so some of that should be spent in bug days
<Kamion> (I think)
* dholbach hugs infinity
<seb128> infinity: what I do is comment on some interesting bugs I triage on the chan, that gives some "activity" to the chan
<seb128> and motivate some people
<Kamion> good idea
<seb128> Kamion: ok, nice
<pitti> apart from the db2 packaging, I'm solely on bug fixing anyway, so I might be able to help out a bit, too
<Kamion> ok, let's keep moving
<Kamion> doko: 
<doko> - toolchain-roadmap: java problems on hppa fixed, glibc could use a patch comparision (unstable vs. dapper, hint, hint jbailey)
<doko> - toolchain-roadmap-ng: blocked
<doko> - openoffice.org: sprint notes at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2006-March/016568.html, packaging fixes, splitting help pot files, new locale. outstanding: two crashes (atk is currently addressed upstream)
<doko> - other: working on bugs (OOo, assigned, java, started python), finally eclipse-pydev!, building eclipse on sparc, tracking ttf-dejavu font changes, everything else I forgot
<Kamion> JaneW: can you make a note for doko and jbailey to have talked to each other about glibc patches before next week?
<fabbione> doko: if it is something specific send it to me
<JaneW> Kamion: sure
<fabbione> it seems i am cool at signing glibc uploads :)
<doko> fabbione: no, but if you like to debug 45 ant build files ...
<fabbione> doko: kthxno
<Mithrandir> ok, present
<Kamion> thanks Matthias
<Kamion> fabbione: 
<fabbione> * server-candy: Missing/buggy: apache2 for "central snakeoil SSL setup" and kernel -server as default from CD install. No other progresses.
<fabbione> * ubuntu-cluster: Waiting ocfs2-tools release for new userland to sync with the kernel that will allow (finally) full desync later. Release is taking a bit longer. Today I received a SAN to use for cluster testing. Somebody please send/donate a portable nuclear power plant and a set of ear plugs.
<fabbione> * last week: Tons of X bug fixing/triage/headackes/larting/bashing/killing/... and a bit of sparc bug fixing. Got around the first step of hw upgrade at the office. Added a SUN T2000 to the machine collection.
<fabbione> * next week: complete hw upgrade at the office, bug fixing.
<fabbione> * NOTE: my LP Karma is over 43000!!!
<pitti> fabbione: 117000 here :)
<dholbach> fabbione: haha!
<ogra> lol
<dholbach> guys, ask seb128 how much he has!
<pitti> fabbione: *cockroach*!
<fabbione> pitti: ehhe
<ogra> fabbione, Karma:  82207
<ogra> ;P
<fabbione> next week i will take all you over :)
<sorush21> bugs are boaring
<Kamion> fabbione: I should be able to get to -server kernel installation sometime pre-beta, but remind me if it looks like I've forgotten
<seb128> dholbach: young padawan :p
* dholbach hugs seb128
<fabbione> Kamion: ok thanks, will do
* seb128 hugs dholbach
<Kamion> fabbione: do you think we'll be in shape on X bugs by beta, or do we need more effort there?
<fabbione> Kamion: i did pass over 12% of the bugs in the last 2 days...
<fabbione> Kamion: help in triaging them will be useful
<fabbione> at least today we got rid of at least 40 ATI bugs, 
<fabbione> but thanks to LP i can't batch processing them
<Kamion> I noticed; I'll see if that fixes my issues
<fabbione> so i am in the process of writing a small script to do that while somebody fixes LP
<Kamion> fabbione: you may be able to use the e-mail interface for that, not that I can ever remember how to close bugs by e-mail myself
<Mithrandir> seb and I are tag-teaming on the xkb stuff, that works quite well.
<fabbione> Kamion: it's not just closing..
<fabbione> Kamion: i need to add comments and ask feedback
<fabbione> Kamion: too many changes to be sure what is exactly fixed
<fabbione> Kamion: but we have full upstream support for that driver now.
<Kamion> echo comment | mail xxxxx@bugs.launchpad.net yyyyy@bugs.launchpad.net ... should work
<infinity> Yeah, comments are easy.  Don't need to sign those.
<infinity> Actions are a pain.
<fabbione> Kamion: yes.. but there is no easy way to query LP to know what is xxxxx and yyyyy
<Kamion> true
<Kamion> ok, thanks Fabio
<fabbione> and as infinity said.. actions are a pain
<Kamion> infinity: your turn
<fabbione> but i am discussing with LP guys alerayd
<infinity> last week buildd: had some productive sessions with cprov, where nearly a dozen irritating bugs were nailed in the buildd code, brought hppa completely up-to-date, chased more build failures.
<infinity> last week distro: uploaded a mess of packages to resolve FTBFS issues, did some new upstream merges, started hammering away at the initramfs-tools bug list.
<infinity> next week buildd: keep an eye on buildability and installability of main, tweak some more bugs in the buildd slave code that I can do without cprov's assistance, and start filing bugs on failures in universe.
<infinity> next week distro: more bug triaging and fixing in initramfs-tools, and (hopefully) a UVF exception and mass rebuild for a new MySQL that (sadly) broke ABI upstream, plus whatever else I have time for.
<infinity> GENERAL NOTE: You may all have noticed a flurry of uploads from me in the last week to deal with build failures.  Some of you (hi mvo) may prefer if I push those fixes directly to you.  If I step on toes, please let me know.
<pitti> fabbione: I increasingly like +packagebugs, I find it pretty helpful for bug housekeeping
<Kamion> thanks for the hppa work; hppa is back in anastacia now, and apparently has caused no issues thereby
<infinity> Kamion: Excellent.
<fabbione> pitti: -> #u-d
<Kamion> main is more installable than it's been at any point in the last couple of months
<infinity> Kamion: And less out of date too.  Yay.
<Kamion> all of the issues in dapper_probs are either ASBA or NBS packages
<Kamion> (all-superseded-by-any, not-built-from-source)
<infinity> My goal is to keep it that way, since having it installable but half out of date isn't terribly representative of what we want to ship.
<doko> mvo in vacation?
<Kamion> doko: scheduled hockey training
<dholbach> doko: <JaneW> so we are only missing mvo, who gave appologies as he has a scheduled team practise at this time
<Kamion> iwj: your turn
<iwj> DefaultApplicationsFirefox: Reverted `you have chosen to open ...' before I went away.  No complaints from that.  So I think we can call this goal complete.
<iwj> Firefox maintenance: Thanks to mvo, seb128, doko, fabbione for stuff while I was away.  I'll do an upload tonight (urgh, it's still building, again) or tomorrow which should fix a few things I'm aware of, provide -dbg package, etc.
<iwj> AutomatedTesting: A few discussions with Xen people but otherwise no real progress so far this week.
<iwj> DeveloperDocumentation: no progress to report.
<iwj> Bugfixing: managed to get around to gs-gpl ia64 init.ps problem; very mysterious but now gone it seems.  Will look at other gs bugs if I get a chance tomorrow.
<dholbach> Kamion: soccer :)
<JaneW> hi have mvo's report
<iwj> Bugfixing: are we likely to get any movement on Malone ?  Strange email command parsing, bizarre formatting of bug messages on Malone web UI, inadequate search options, email header mangling, etc.
<iwj> Email/lists: caught up (it was that or do three weeks in one go later).
<iwj> Email: I'm getting _lots_ of spam via my Ubuntu addresses.  Is Anything being Done ?
<iwj> Last week and next week: on holiday.
<doko> iwj: but you're not having vacation tomorrow after the upload? ;-P
<iwj> I'm afraid I am.  But my last upload just before vacation was OK :-).
<Riddell> ubuntu addresses are unfiltered I thought
<fabbione> iwj: all the malone issues have been raised again today by me
<Kamion> iwj: was your visit to the Launchpad team last week? if so, how did that go?
<seb128> iwj: I didn't send a debdiff for my changes but they are documented to the changelog and trivials, anyway let me now if you want the diff :)
<iwj> Kamion: No, that was going to be this week.  But no-one sent me any opinions so I decided not to bother.
<Kamion> I see, oh dear
<iwj> It didn't seem sensible for me to go to London just so I could rant at LP people about what I personally wanted.
<Kamion> nostra culpa
<iwj> seb128: Thanks, NP.  I have a daily snapshot of the archive so I can get debdiffs easily for the past month ...
<seb128> iwj: k
<JaneW> next?
<Kamion> on spam, I doubt anyone in this meeting can answer; you will need to talk to the admin team, if you haven't already. I believe some central spam filtering of some kind has been done for those who read their mail by IMAP from the datacentre, but I'm not sure about that.
<Kamion> I'm next, one second
<iwj> I'd be quite happy to slurp by IMAP if that would help :-).
<JaneW> tick
<JaneW> tock
<Kamion> I'm finding (with Soyuz) that picking the issues with highest priority and escalating them in small chunks with descriptions of why they're blocking work is helpful, but you have to be rather careful with that approach as it becomes ineffective if overused :-)
<Kamion> I understand that mdz's offer to harass on issues affecting the distro team if notified of bug numbers etc. stands
<Kamion> anyhow, my turn
<Kamion> ue-gnome-ui: Daniel did the breadcrumbs rearrangement; yay.
<Kamion> ubuntu-express: We pretty much have internationalisation now, apart from a few glitchy strings. The POT file is in Rosetta and is being translated.
<Kamion> ue-partitioning-tool: Various gparted bugs fixed, thanks to Daniel. Landed and integrated Fabio's disk selector.
<Kamion> ubuntu-express-base-system: Keymap page done. Really just apt-setup to go here now.
<Kamion> misc: Looked into Intel Mac CD images and experimented a bit via mjg59; we think we need HFS+ support in mkisofs to get this working (it already has HFS support, so this should be a smallish step). Worked with Carlos to get aggregated installer translations into Rosetta. Promoted most of Xubuntu to main. Out of date on UVF exception requests; sorry, will try to catch up there. Almost entirely up-to-date on other archi
<Kamion> next-week: Timezone->country->locale inferring. Finally sort out network configuration. Figure out what's up with the bogus copying time.
<Mithrandir> Kamion: keymap's not really applied to the installed system, though.
<Mithrandir> it's just applied to the running system.
<Kamion> Mithrandir: true, I noticed that, but also looks trivial to do
<Kamion> doing it in the running system and having the UI was the hard bit
<iwj> Kamion: bugs> Right, thanks.
<Mithrandir> Kamion: sure, just wanting to note it.  It's not hard.
<Kamion> thanks for that
<pitti> Kamion: what's the status of updated breezy CDs?
<Kamion> pitti: no real progress on that yet except that I have all the patches ready; I'll put aside some time over the next week to assemble an image with all of that together and do some testing before uploading anything
<Kamion> obviously I don't want to upload before being able to test the full assembly
<Kamion> so add that to my next-week, I guess
<pitti> ah, thanks
<ogra> oh, that means kubuntu and edubuntu as well i guess
<Kamion> ogra: I hadn't really thought about it, but I guess it does
<ogra> for edubuntu it makes most sense though ...
<Kamion> I'll let you and Riddell know when we have something more concrete to look at. I don't expect many (any) flavour-specific problems.
<Kamion> well, it's worth testing one of them to make sure preseeding still works
<ogra> i'd be happy if the ltsp fix from breezy-updates could go in
<Kamion> I've only been planning breezy + breezy-security; that is much safer
<Kamion> and more consistent with being in a USN
<Kamion> but I suppose we can audit the set of breezy-updates changes involved
<ogra> hmm, k ...
<Kamion> let's talk about that closer to the time
<ogra> yep
<Kamion> Keybuk: 
<Keybuk> udev - many changes to the way we do root filesystem mounting this week; the new stuff is rather more streamlined and means we can do mount-by-uuid (ProbeForRootFilesystem) on everything except evms, LVM and md/RAID now.
<Keybuk> network-manager - been going through NM 0.6 and it's new dependencies, using the community contributions where possible.  both dependencies are in the archive now, and approved for main by pitti (not going to seed them as n-m will drag them in automatically).  should get n-m in before I go away.
<Keybuk> wpa_supplicant - have further changes I want to make to it, will involve syncing with Debian with a UVF exception.  makse it integrate properly with ifupdown with a process-per-interface and config from /e/n/i rather than running as a daemon all the time. 
<Keybuk> other: finished off multi-arch report (at least, no further comments from mdz on it).  still not received reply to request to be added to ftp admin group.  had not much time for installer UI yet, sorry Kamion, nm taking a bit longer to work out amongst other interruptions.
<Keybuk> (uh, wpa is in pitti's queue)
<Kamion> Keybuk: we aren't actually changing to mount-by-uuid for the dapper installer though, right?
<Kamion> (as discussed before)
<Keybuk> well, I kinda think we should now
<Keybuk> given dapper+1 is likely to ship with no ide subsystem :)
<Kamion> argh
<Keybuk> it'd make the transition rather smoother
<Keybuk> I guess it makes no real difference, we still have to transition for everyone who installed pre-uuid
<Kamion> as I said in #ubuntu-devel, I think the transition should be in our face, otherwise we'll forget about the issues for breezy upgraders
<Riddell> Keybuk: when do you go away?
<Mithrandir> can we discuss that later?  I suspect it'll take more time to discuss through than we have in this meeting?
<Kamion> Mithrandir: yep
<Mithrandir> here, immediately after the meeting, if that's fine?
<Keybuk> Riddell: am away mon-weds next week
<Kamion> Keybuk: if you could mail me the RT number for the ftpadmin request, that would be good, I think I only have a CC of the original mail
<Keybuk> Kamion: 4217
<Kamion> Mithrandir: if you don't mind doing it without me - otherwise tomorrow
<Kamion> Keybuk: thanks
<Mithrandir> Kamion: tomorrow then.  I would at least like to have you in on it.
<Kamion> Kinnison: 
<Kinnison> gnome-power-manager (PowerManagementInterface): Been through ca. 100 bugmails learning the new state of the world post-lp-sprint. Begun the work to get 2.14.0 (plus some CVS patches) into the archive.
<Kinnison> gparted: Worked through the installer-mode patch to ensure all dialogs are transient on the plug if appropriate
<Kinnison> metacity: Added a patch to enure transience on a non-toplevel works. This is a workaround in the sense that transience is meant to always be on a toplevel, but this is by far and away the easiest place to add this code.
<Kinnison> vim: re-enabled the vim-ruby package as per bug 36050
<Kinnison> aspell-sl: Investigated report that the package is uninstallable. Could not reproduce, asked for more info.
<Kinnison> launchpad: Fixed bug in binary upload acceptance, continued discussion with the sabdfl about domination in personal package archives.
<Kinnison> espresso: replaced breadcrumbs with N-of-M in the GTK UI
<Kinnison> tomorrow: Assist in production rollout
<Kinnison> otherwise: Continue to do gnome-power-manager work; we are now going to seriously diverge from upstream as upstream is on the road to 2.16. Continue to pick up espresso UI work for Colin. Whatever else falls onto my plate
<Kinnison> bugs: Currently I have around 50 bugs I am actively dealing with, most are g-p-m, some are acpid or acpi-support related. This is up on last time due to spending time on gparted and espresso for colin and then having a week on the launchpad sprint. I currently have another 46 bug mails to deal with in my LPBugs folder.
<Kamion> the gparted changes seem to be working well now, thanks, that was an awkward blocker
<Kinnison> [END] 
<Kinnison> You're welcome
<Kinnison> (although if I ever see that codebase again, kittens will die)
<Riddell> Kinnison: N-of-M?
<Mithrandir> Riddell: step X of Y
<Riddell> right
<Mithrandir> changing the current breadcrumb path to just a "step X of Y"
<Kamion> Riddell: moving from the "Welcome > Language > Location > Keyboard > blah" across the top to a better UI
<dholbach> Kinnison: the patch has to go upstream for dapper+1 :)
<Kamion> that doesn't look like you can click on it
<Kinnison> dholbach: merry christmas
<Kamion> Mithrandir: 
<Mithrandir> misc: keyboard handling.  Korean keyboards almost work out of the box now (I know what the fix is), espresso keyboard handling mostly works (as in, works for me, and Colin fixed a few of my bugs today).  XKB is getting there, I'm working a bit with upstream on getting us as good support for languages such as Kurdish.  seb's also been excellent helping out here.
<Mithrandir> next week: I'm planning on releasing flight-5 on Wednesday, apart from that, espresso hacking, a bit depending on what Colin has, hopefully get popcon running, move towards bug triage mode rather than development mode.
<Mithrandir> blocked: no
<infinity> Mithrandir: Flight-6, I hope.
<Mithrandir> also, I don't know if it's a good thing when you're getting around to being comfortable hacking xkeyboard-config or not.
<Mithrandir> uh, flight-6, obviously.
<Mithrandir> infinity: thanks
<doko> Mithrandir, Kamion: what about tracking CD sizes?
<infinity> (Would be easier to just release Flight-5 again..)
<ogra> would be hard to roll back the archive to flight 5 :)
<Kamion> doko: what about it?
<Mithrandir> doko: I follow it with a bit of attention, but not each day; why?
<doko> Kamion: how can I influence the size of daily builds?
<ogra> lool
<fabbione> doko: sending more |Viagra to little?
<pitti> replace ooo with ed? :-P
<Kamion> er - that's kind of a complicated question and I'm not sure where you're coming from, -> #ubuntu-devel perhaps
<ogra> doko, thats what i'm asking myself every day after waking up
<Mithrandir> doko: strip down the size of OOo. :-)
<doko> Mithrandir: but it would be nice not to have *only* the flight CD's burnable
<Mithrandir> doko: today's cds for instance are just fine
<doko> ok, let's move that to -devel
<JaneW> ready for mvo's report?
<Kamion> doko: the CD sizes have been officially increased to 700MB
<Mithrandir> doko: so are yesterdays, the day before that and so on.
<Kamion> if you have media smaller than that, upgrade
<Kamion> this was an mdz/sabdfl? decision
<Kamion> JaneW: yes please
<JaneW> ogra: I hope that helps you (unless you work on that anyway...?)
<JaneW> Did:
<JaneW> - Friday: last day of the l10n sprint (very successful sprint IMHO)
<JaneW> - language-selector:
<JaneW>  * qt port, split package, added fontconfig-voodoo, added locale
<JaneW>  specific bits for ja_JP, ko_KR, zh_{CN,TW,HK,SG}
<JaneW> - catchup from the sprint for gnome-app-install, synaptic, apt,
<JaneW>  python-apt, update-manager, software-properties, dist-upgrader
<JaneW> - added ttf-sil-{charis, dolous} to universe
<JaneW> - evalued dist-upgrade tool feedback (thing look good so far, but
<doko> Kamion: sorry, MiB or MB?
<Kamion> JaneW: Edubuntu has always been 700MB, sorry, makes no difference there
<JaneW>  still some missing bits like a bug with debconf/gnome and missing
<JaneW>  recovery on dpkg failures)
<JaneW> - gnome-app-install: improved the menu-data extractor, added some more
<ogra> JaneW, we use 700 since breezy
<JaneW>  pseudo dekstop files 
<JaneW> - made hwdb translatable (including the xml in it)
<Kamion> doko: roughly MiB, but I abhor that term
<JaneW> - bugtriage, mail backlog
<JaneW> Will do:
<JaneW> - wait for the auto-dist-upgrade test chroot setup
<JaneW> - get the upgrade tool into the archive (finally!)
<JaneW> - add the missing bits to the dist-upgrade tool
<JaneW> - more bugtriage, catchup
<JaneW> Kamion: that's what I thought *dang*
<Kamion> dist-upgrade tool backportage to breezy is blocked on a soyuz bug (filed)
<Kamion> JaneW: can you make a note for mvo to talk to me about the debconf/gnome thing, if I don't already have mail about it?
<ogra> my turn ? 
<JaneW> Kamion: will do
<Kamion> right, usual mvo week of going over almost our entire high-level package management system then :)
<Kamion> ogra: go
<ogra> * general: reworked the edubuntu-artwork package completely to not depend on ubuntu-artwork anymore (gains ~5MB on the edubuntu CD), wrote a bunch of ltsp howtos for edubuntu-docs, general poking on screensaver bugs, trying to find out why it sometimes ignores user input, fiddling with the default visual to catch the GL flickering. no work on ltsp-client-builder.udeb yet. some hwdb stuff for mark. fiddled with reding from /dev/vcs3 for ltsp-client
<ogra> -builder.
<ogra> next-week: finishing minor stuff in edubuntu-artwork, continuing the screensaver odd-ysee, ltsp-client-builder.udeb work, flight 6 preparation.
<ogra> seb128, can i get the gdm edubuntu-artwork dependency fix before flight 6 ? (i'm fine with doing it myself if thats ok for you)
<seb128> ogra: oh sure, will do tomorrow
<ogra> thanks :)
<seb128> np
<seb128> or after dinner
<ogra> thats fine as well ...
<ogra> just before flight 6 :)
<Kamion> thanks Oliver
<Kamion> pitti: 
<pitti> reducing-duplication:
<pitti>  * DONE: got rid of libgd, libmpeg3, gnutls11 (finally!!1!)
<pitti>  * PLAN: discuss libsqlite0 demotion with infinity (php5-sqlite is the only package that needs to be changed)
<pitti>  * evaluated getting rid of gtk+1.2, but quite many packages still use it, so we have to live with it, unless somebody spends a fair amount of time on that
<pitti> DB2 packaging:
<pitti>  * DONE:
<pitti>    - made myself familiar with the basic installation procedure
<pitti>    - dissected the 370 MB tarball into logical chunks suitable for packages
<pitti>    - built first round of debs out of it: installation works and produces an usable default instance, so that you can immediately start working
<pitti>  * TODO:
<pitti>    - add proper package descriptions
<pitti>    - maybe debconf'ify (for port configuration and whether to start DAS (administration server))
<pitti>    - integrate DAS startup/shutdown
<pitti>    - build a Java SDK deb from the bundled IBM JDK and integrate the GUI stuff to work OOTB
<pitti>    - build l10n packages
<pitti> general stuff done this week: security updates, lots of bug triage and fixing, cleaned up anastacia output, espresso testing
<pitti> plan for next week: bugs, bugs, bugs, and more DB2 packaging (depending on how much mdz wants me to work on that)
<Kamion> pitti: where are the DB2 packages going to go?
<pitti> bug backlog: I slowly get it under control, but still a lot to catch up with
<pitti> Kamion: in our 'commercial' repo
<Kamion> thanks for the continued espresso testing BTW, it's been very valuable
<seb128> pitti: curious, what still use gtk1.2 (you mean to main right?)?
<pitti> but I didn't make any deeper inquiries about that
<sivang> pitti: yey :)
<pitti> Kamion: I hope I don't annoy you too much with the bugs :) but I seem to be a good test case :)
<Mithrandir> seb128: xmms, evms
<doko> seb128: orbit1?
<pitti> also, smpeg
<iwj> `commercial' repo> ITYM `proprietary'.  HTH.
<Kamion> seb128: gtkglarea gutenprint imlib libdv libiodbc2 smpeg xmms
<Kamion> (build-deps)
<sivang> pitti: let me know when you work about bullet 4 of the DB2 items, I'd be interested to continue helping and providing inpuit :)
<Kamion> pitti: no no, don't stop, they're good
<pitti> sivang: thanks
* Kamion nods at iwj ...
<pitti> Kamion: (just kidding)
<Kamion> pitti: (IOW, "hurt me harder")
<seb128> Mithrandir: I thought Martin patched evms, and xmms ... just move it to universe
<pitti> seb128: also, gtkglarea, gutenprint, imlib, libdv, libiodbc2, smpeg
<seb128> anyway, not a topic for now
<Mithrandir> seb128: indeed he did.
<Mithrandir> seb128: I didn't know if he actually applied the patch he was pointed to or not.
<Kamion> right, time marches on
<Kamion> Riddell: 
<pitti> Mithrandir: yes, I did
<Riddell> this week:
<Riddell>  KDE 3.5.2 packaging and testing
<Riddell>  also: CD size checking, reviewing knetworkmanager, checking new guidance release
<seb128> pitti: I had a look on gutenprint during distro sprint, seems to be a configure bog, there is gtk1 and gtk2 code and it builds both or something like that
<Riddell> next week:
<Riddell>  3.5.2 upload if approved, lots of kubuntu espresso, flight 6
<doko> Riddell: is OOo still in Kubuntu?
<infinity> Riddell: A big sloppy kiss if you make kdenetwork build.  Honest.
<Riddell> doko: yes
<Kamion> Riddell: glad to hear it on espresso, I'd really like to be getting merges more frequently than once every three weeks; is there anyone else on the kubuntu team who might be able to help?
<Kamion> because keeping it working is slowing me down in places
<doko> Riddell: please could you help/have a look at the OOo/KDE specific bugs?
<Riddell> infinity: on my todo list for tonight or tomorrow morning
<Riddell> Kamion: I'm trying to presuade the spanish guys to not re-write it and help with the current version
<Riddell> Kamion: and with 3.5.2 out of the way I expect merges to happen much more often
<Kamion> ok, thanks
<Kamion> if it helps, just tell the Spanish people that I won't merge a total rewrite
<Riddell> yep
<Kamion> seb128: 
<seb128> this week: bug day (some people active on IRC participated, which is nice but we lacked participation of some distro team people though), some GNOMish updated, replied to comments and triaged a pile of desktop bug, forwarded a bunch of them upstream, debugged some of them, patches a bunch of packages (desktop issues fixing)
<seb128> next week: bug triage, forwarding, squashing, patching
<dholbach> seb128 has Karma: 437709
<dholbach> just for the record :)
<seb128> dholbach: launchpad is on crac if you want my opinion :p
<Mithrandir> seb is teh man.
<dholbach> seb128: man, you deserve it!
<doko> dholbach: come on, how much did you collect?
<pitti> 'An integer overflow was detected in the LP Karma module... seb128 coudl exploit it by...'
<fabbione> pitti: LOL
<dholbach> doko: 170403 not that much :)
<pitti> (I hope they are using 64 bit for seb)
<doko> we should measure MegaKarma
* seb128 runs away from pitti
<pitti> seb128: no, no, let's pentest :)
<Kinnison> the karma events are being rebalanced, expect the numbers to shift dramatically over time until we settle
<Keybuk> how come everyone has more karma than me? :'(
<seb128> hann
<infinity> Keybuk: I probably have less, but that's only because I haven't committed my "buildd actions" karma patches yet. ;)
<ogra> Keybuk, we know how to cheat LP, you dont :P
<dholbach> bah!
<Kinnison> Keybuk: s'cos you're "harmless"
<Kamion> sivang: anything you want to add?
<sivang> If I may add, HomeUserBackup is very close to finishing now (approx 2-3 days away if my gf let me work during the weekend)
<sivang> this will include backing up to CD,
<sivang> CDs
<sivang> and restoring 
<Kamion> sivang: upload early, upload often :-)
<Kamion> (to universe)
<sivang> Kamion: yes, I need someone responsive to review and sponser the upload :)
<Kamion> any volunteers?
<sivang> I'd like to to go under review of someone from distro team for that matter
<sivang> since it's going to be new software and etc
<Kamion> if anyone wants to volunteer for that, it would be useful; please talk to sivang, probably on #ubuntu-devel
<Kamion> ok, any other business in the remaining minute or so?
<infinity> Kamion: Are you playing mdz right now?
<sivang> infinity: he sure is :)
<Kamion> infinity: for the duration of this meeting, I guess
<Keybuk> Kamion: could you quickly review my e-mail to you and give me a "no" or "maybe" ? :p
<infinity> Kamion: If so, feel the urge to tell me it's a-okay to crash for the next 8 hours, since I just worked for the last 24? :)
<Kamion> Keybuk: sure, like I say I'm behind on UVF requests, will get to yours and fabbione's this evening
<Keybuk> infinity: sleep when dead
<Kamion> infinity: I think you'd better :P
<Keybuk> Kamion: ah, I thought for some reason you were out this evening
<fabbione> Kamion: no hurry.. tomorrow is fine
<Kinnison> infinity: as an addendum to keybuk's comment, please don't die
<Keybuk> not until release, anyway
<pitti> Keybuk: after release is before the release :)
<infinity> How Zen...
<sivang> heh
<Kamion> yes, I assume everyone's seen the dapper delay announcement
<ogra> bah, pitti is on soccer already ...
* ogra blames germany
<Kamion> if not, why are you not on ubuntu-announce? :-)
<Keybuk> Kamion: no?  we're delaying dapper?
<sivang> ogra: LOL
<pitti> ogra: hm?
<infinity> Kamion: What's "dapper"?
<ogra> pitti, "nach dem spiel is vor dem spiel ?"
<Kamion> infinity: the thing you have our permission to die after
<pitti> ogra: I couldn't care less about football
<dholbach> ok guys, I need to run
<Kamion> ok, time's more than up
<infinity> Kamion: Check.
<Kamion> adjourned
<dholbach> Have a nice evening and thanks Kamion
<Kamion> thanks all
<Kinnison> night all
<ogra> thanks Kamion 
<sivang> thanks all, please ping me for the spnsership of upload :-)
<pitti> thanks everyone
<seb128> thank you Kamion
<iwj> sivang: If you can't find another reviewer, ask me, but I'm away next week.
<JaneW> thanks all
<iwj> So if you need me, send me email.  iwj@ubuntu.com.
<sivang> iwj: thanks Ian, I appriciate it :-)
<pitti> sivang: I'll send you nitpicks about the packaging
<iwj> Right, must go or I'll have no dinner.
<iwj> Thanks for keeping quick, everyone :-).
<iwj> Goodnight.
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 Mar 15:00 UTC: Bug Squad | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 29 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 30 Mar 02:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 31 Mar 21:00 UTC: Documentation Team | 03 Apr 09:00 UTC: Community Council
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-03-29
<Pratico> boa noite!
<licio> Pratico, #ubuntu-br
<Pratico> oi licio
<Pratico> beleza
<licio> Pratico, the language default is english
<Pratico> ok
<licio> Pratico, para falar portugues v para o #ubuntu-br
<Pratico> good bye
<TANATHOS> hey
<Mez> @schedule London
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/London: 27 Mar 16:00: Bug Squad | 28 Mar 21:00: Technical Board | 29 Mar 13:00: Edubuntu | 30 Mar 03:00: Dapper Development Status | 31 Mar 22:00: Documentation Team | 03 Apr 10:00: Community Council
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:JaneW] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 Mar 15:00 UTC: Bug Squad | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 29 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 30 Mar 02:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 30 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu Cookbook Update| 31 Mar 21:00 UTC: Documentation Team | 03 Apr 09:00 UTC: Community Council
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 Mar 15:00 UTC: Bug Squad | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 29 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 30 Mar 02:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 31 Mar 21:00 UTC: Documentation Team | 03 Apr 09:00 UTC: Community Council
<JaneW> meh
<ogra> JaneW, you need to announce it to the fridge team to get it on the event calendar, the bot will update the topic automatically
<JaneW> ogra: just sent an e-mail
<JaneW> spacey: I CCed you ^
<spacey> ok :)
<dholbach> JaneW: Ubugtu didn't like you to be mean to me yesterday :-p
<ogra> JaneW, btw:
<ogra> @schedule london
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/London: 27 Mar 16:00: Bug Squad | 28 Mar 21:00: Technical Board | 29 Mar 13:00: Edubuntu | 30 Mar 03:00: Dapper Development Status | 31 Mar 22:00: Documentation Team | 03 Apr 10:00: Community Council
<ogra> comuptes the schedule for your TZ :)
<JaneW> wow
<JaneW> impressive
<JaneW> dholbach: really?
<dholbach> JaneW: no, I think not. :-)
* dholbach hugs JaneW
<JaneW> dholbach: you're the meanie :/
<JaneW> heh
<dholbach> oh come on... why that?
<JaneW> joking
<JaneW> so who is making ubuntu food this w/e?
<Seveas> JaneW, if you want a meeting to appear, poke the fridge crew to add it to their calendar 
<JaneW> Seveas: done, thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-03-30
<robitaille> @topic
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 Mar 15:00 UTC: Bug Squad | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 29 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 30 Mar 02:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 30 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu Cookbook | 31 Mar 21:00 UTC: Documentation Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-03-31
<Toadstool> @schedule Europe/Paris
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: 27 Mar 17:00: Bug Squad | 28 Mar 22:00: Technical Board | 29 Mar 14:00: Edubuntu | 30 Mar 04:00: Dapper Development Status | 30 Mar 14:00: Edubuntu Cookbook | 31 Mar 23:00: Documentation Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-04-01
<ToadZzZztool> @schedule Europe/Paris
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: 27 Mar 17:00: Bug Squad | 28 Mar 22:00: Technical Board | 29 Mar 14:00: Edubuntu | 30 Mar 04:00: Dapper Development Status | 30 Mar 14:00: Edubuntu Cookbook | 31 Mar 23:00: Documentation Team
<bmonty> @schedule US/Central
<Ubugtu> Schedule for US/Central: 27 Mar 09:00: Bug Squad | 28 Mar 14:00: Technical Board | 29 Mar 06:00: Edubuntu | 29 Mar 20:00: Dapper Development Status | 30 Mar 06:00: Edubuntu Cookbook | 31 Mar 15:00: Documentation Team
<MarioMeyer> @topic
<MarioMeyer> @schedule Brazil/East
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Brazil/East: 27 Mar 12:00: Bug Squad | 28 Mar 17:00: Technical Board | 29 Mar 09:00: Edubuntu | 29 Mar 23:00: Dapper Development Status | 30 Mar 09:00: Edubuntu Cookbook | 31 Mar 18:00: Documentation Team
<dholbach> good morning
<JaneW> hello
<dholbach> hey JaneW!
<JaneW> odd, I am only connected to some of my ubuntu # (the rest are disconnected) ...?
<simira> that is strange
<simira> and I just read "Ubuntugeek" instead of "bergeek"
<highvoltage> hi JaneW 
<JaneW> hello highvoltage 
<robitaille> @schedule US/Pacific
<Ubugtu> Schedule for US/Pacific: 27 Mar 07:00: Bug Squad | 28 Mar 12:00: Technical Board | 29 Mar 04:00: Edubuntu | 29 Mar 18:00: Dapper Development Status | 30 Mar 04:00: Edubuntu Cookbook | 31 Mar 13:00: Documentation Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Bug Squad | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 29 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 30 Mar 02:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 30 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu Cookbook | 31 Mar 21:00 UTC: Documentation Team
<dholbach> everybody get their snacks/tea/coffee/stuff ready? :-)
<fabbione> yeah
<lakin> close enough
<fabbione> i had my 2 chicken sandwich with salad and fresh tomatos...
<ogra> hrm
* ogra only has coffee
* ogra goes to look for food
* _mvo_ has tea
<Toadstool> ready to go :)
* Lure has to visit that place... ;-)
<jsgotangco> yeah
* jsgotangco has red bull instead
<dholbach> Ok everybody... here we go!
<dholbach> This the first BugSquad meeting - welcome everybody!
<MiserySalin> hello ;-)
<G0SUB> hi!
<dholbach> What do you think about doing a very quick round of introducing and saying what we work on wrt bugs?
* ogra waves his flyflap
<jsgotangco> do we have a ribbon cutting ceremony?
<kagou> hi
<fabbione> sure
<dholbach> I'm Daniel Holbach, work mostly on Desktop bugs, some accessibility bugs, some Universe bugs, assorted bugs of packages I maintain and now some Icon bugs as well... and some stuff I probably forgot
<dholbach> just write into the channel - we don't need an order yet :-)
* ogra is OliverGrawert having nightmares about unreproducable screensaver bugs
<fabbione> I am your X God.. and your bugs are pestering my inbox...
<fabbione> eh whops
<fabbione> i meant
<ogra> (and i care about all edubuntu related breakage as well)
* Lure is LukaRenko looking for Kubuntu laptop/wireless stuff bugs...
<fabbione> I am Fabio Di Nitto.. one of the X maintainer
<fabbione> i need help to triage bugs
<G0SUB> I am Baishampayan Ghose, I usually take a look at random Unconfirmed & Unassigned bugs. Would like to make sure there are zero untriaged bugs especially in MOTU-Science
<jsgotangco> I am Jerome Gotangco currently looking at some app specific bugs like Yelp, G-A-I, some desktop love like AbiWord and bluetooth and Daniel thinks its a good idea i subscribe to ubuntu-bugs
* _mvo_ is Michael Vogt and maintains a bunch of desktop software + has a interesst in CJK bugfixes
<Toadstool> I'm Jrmie Corbier, a french newcomer in Ubuntu bug squashing world and I try to do my best to find bugs I can handle or triage
<philbull> Hi, I'm Phil Bull and I'm a community bug triager
<lakin> I am Lakin Wecker, from Calgary, Alberta and have found that bug-triage is the easiest way for me to give back to Ubuntu, and would love to have easier ways to help others get involved in the same way.
<seb128> I am Sebastien Bacher and I try to keep Desktop bugs under control :)
* seaLne is Kenny Duffus and does kubuntu triaging and testing
* slomo is Sebastian Drge and I stressed malone in the last time by bug triaging in all different areas ;)
<kagou> i'm Patrice Vetsel, a french newcomer too. And i'm too shy so i 'll just do my best on triage 
* fabbione hands the microphone to dholbach 
<dholbach> (for the ones who just joined the channel: we had a quick introduction round... if you want to introduce yourself, just do so...)
<zakame> hi all
<dholbach> I'm quite happy we have a diverse team around and hope we get some good stuff covered today
<dholbach> we have our agenda on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/Meeting
<zakame> heya dholbach
<dholbach> maybe it makes sense to start with the 2nd agenda point, as "getting the team on track" is more general than the next bug day
<dholbach> robitaille can't attend today, but he brought some nice interesting facts to illustrate the current situation
<dholbach> i'll just paste them
<dholbach> "we seem to be gaining ~100 open bug per week (9500 2 weeks ago, 9600 last week, 9727 tonight). We are fighting a losing battle it seems :)"
<dholbach> "over 2/3 of these open bugs are "unconfirmed". I think we should be doing better job at this. A lot of these bugs could probably be easily "confirmed"; often it is obvious from the comments that multiple people are seeing these bugs. Confirming a bug is a good way to show an unexperienced bug reporter that his/her bug report is valued. It's a lot better to do this than having a bug report that goes totally unanswered for months if not e
<dholbach> ver. So maybe we should put little bit more effort in confirming new and old bugs."
<dholbach> "In Debian's area of LP, there are nearly 3000 open bugs. The large majority of these bugs are actually closed from a long time ago; when bugzilla bugs were imported, the ubuntu task kept its bugzilla.u.c status, but if it was linked to debbugs it got an open debian task. These false-open-debian-upstreams bug show up in the list of subscribed bug reports of Ubuntu developpers. It would be nice to clean these up to remove the number of us
<dholbach> eless bug reports floating around. But it's a very long, boring, and with not a lot of rewards task."
<dholbach> I think that all of us who have to do with bugs longer than the last days know that robitaille's statements are only accurate.
<jsgotangco> ive seen a lot of wishlist entries that can be easily addressed though
<dholbach> Can we think of ideas to make the BugSquad's efforts make all our lifes easier?
<dholbach> jsgotangco: wishlist entries like what? and addressed how?
<fabbione> i think we should first divide working areas here
<slomo> regarding the unconfirmed bugs... i saw many unconfirmed bugs in the past too where there already was some discussion and more people having that problem. it seems people have some kind of fear to set a bug on confirmed :)
<G0SUB> I second the idea of making the bugsquad the default assignee of all ubuntu bugs without any package
<philbull> G0SUB: +1
<fabbione> G0SUB: i disagree.. it doesn't do any good
<jsgotangco> it'll also fill up mailboxes heh
<dholbach> G0SUB: you know that it's *a lot* of traffic and mails you'll get
<fabbione> unassigned or tons of bugs assigned to the same teams makes no difference
<zakame> does LP currently provide a grep-like tool for ploughing unconfirmed seemingly-duplicate bugs?
<G0SUB> well, how'd we get this done otherwise?
<Toadstool> we should encourage people to search for already existing bugs and confirm them instead of filing another duplicate one
<ogra> we should divide ubuntu-bugs@ into more sections ...
<lakin> fabbione: but we can't currently produce a list of bugs which are filed without a package,   I'm not sure of any way to get to them .. so they end up just falling through the cracks for months on end.
<dholbach> I liked the idea of having a list where new bugs go, which are not assigned to a package.
<fabbione> lakin: unassigned does not mean without a package. a package entry is mandatory in the bug report
<dholbach> with new bugs, I mean only the first mail / first entry
<G0SUB> dholbach: that's also a plausible idea ... wrt having a list
<lakin> fabbione: no it's not.
<Lure> fabbione: many report with ubuntu package
<lakin> fabbione: and G0SUB was talking about those bugs _without_ a package.
<dholbach> fabbione: no, there are a hug lot of bugs against 'Ubuntu'
<ogra> dholbach, but asssigned ones or the ones with packages should show up elsewhere 
<fabbione> oh craptastic
<fabbione> but i consider that as triaging 
<dholbach> ogra: what do you mean?
<ogra> <dholbach> I liked the idea of having a list where new bugs go, which are not assigned to a package.
<fabbione> that's why i was saying we should identify the areas where we want to work
<fabbione> and later define the tools we need to accomplish that
<Toadstool> +1
<heno> I would actually like a 'package' for the WinFOSS stuff if possible, because those get filed right on the distro ATM, but should go to me
<dholbach> yes, that's a good idea, fabbione
<zakame> ok
<fabbione> ok let's take turns in talking
<jsgotangco> we currently have 4,400+ on unassigned
<dholbach> heno: you can create an upstream product
<fabbione> otherwise it will get too confusing
<fabbione> dholbach: do you want to lead the discussion?
<heno> dholbach: thanks, will do
<dholbach> Ok... let's get back to the work areas.
<dholbach> How can we ensure to make progress there?
<fabbione> let's identify them first
<fabbione> imho we have 2 areas to work on
<fabbione> make that 3
<G0SUB> our main problem is the bunch of UNCO & Unassigned bugs ...
<fabbione> - new incoming bugs
<seaLne> unassigned bugs aren't helped by you not being able to assign a bug when you create it
<fabbione> - bug triaging (UNCO & unassigned)
<dholbach> let fabbione speak out
<fabbione> - old bug junk
<fabbione> now...
<fabbione> the problem is to get over the back log of bugs
<fabbione> in the past i would have used a very simple but very effective way to get rid of crap
<fabbione> like:
<fabbione> - decide when it's time to reset the counter
<fabbione> - mass processing of bugs from whatever status to date X -> Fix Released
<fabbione> - ask politely the submitters to reopen bugs that are still there
<fabbione> this process would "kill" old bugs backlog easily
<fabbione> but
<fabbione> we can't batch process in malone to do it
* lakin raises his hand
* jsgotangco raises hand
<fabbione> so we need to find a similar method to do it now
<fabbione> once that's done
<fabbione> the team can and should focus on 2 areas only
<ogra> the mail interface isnt scriptable ?
<dholbach> lakin, jsgotangco?
<fabbione> a few people could just look at new bugs
<fabbione> and make reassing them to the appropriate package
<jsgotangco> do we assume an old bug (say bug ID 3045) is fixed because we uploaded a new version?
<zakame> +1
<fabbione> another few people can look at what's left to see if it is assigned to the proper bugs
<fabbione> in this way we can clean up a lot of junk
<fabbione> and i truely mean a lot
<dholbach> fabbione: what do you propose? teams for these bug areas regardless of desktop/kernel/x/kubuntu/universe/..
<lakin> With the fact that previous releases of Ubuntu are supported for X number of years, how can we close bugs with "fix released" when they still exist in an old release, and it's only been fixed in a new release?
<jjesse> +1 lakin
<seb128> yeah, you open a "backport task" if you want a fix backported
<seb128> you don't keep the "normal task"
<Lure> lakin: +1, we need to separate bugs to releases - and it should be easy
<seb128> that's on the right frame
<dholbach> yes, we should make more use of that.
<fabbione> dholbach: teams can form later on.. as soon as we get rid of the backlog
<ogra> Lure, then we'll never close most of them
<fabbione> dholbach: it is also natural for a person to look at bugs that are in his area of interest
<dholbach> fabbione: I think your proposal makes perfect sense for NeedsInfo bugs, which are open and unanswered for say 3-4 weeks
<G0SUB> fabbione: IMO, we can only close warty bugs like that
<fabbione> G0SUB: no, you can close easy hoary and breezy too.
<seb128> bugs should be closed when fixed with current package, if a fix is worth backporting a backport task should be open
<ogra> seb128, ++
<dholbach> fabbione: so you propose kind of a "release schedule" for the bug team?
<fabbione> what we really really really care is that if the bug is still present or not in the development release
<slomo> seb128: ++
<fabbione> dholbach: sort of.. yes
<fabbione> for the stable releases, it is nice to know if the bugs are there
<fabbione> but we can rarely fix them
<fabbione> since almost none of them are of so high severity impact to require a -update
<dholbach> seb128: what do you think about fabbione's proposal?
<seb128> is that basically "let's close all the deprecated bugs now"?
<fabbione> ogra: scripting the email interface is partially possible, assuming you have passphrase-less gpg key
* lakin raises his hand again.
<G0SUB> how do we know which ones are deprecated?
<dholbach> lakin: go ahead
<fabbione> G0SUB: see above: -set date X
<G0SUB> okay
<fabbione> you do it arbitrary.. like 3 months ago
<fabbione> or something we agree upon
<G0SUB> fine, I like the idea
<seb128> usual practice is to close "Needs Infos" bug after some weeks without a reply
<slomo> but only bugs that had no activity since then, yes?
<lakin> Sure, no one single bug might be serious enough for an update, but for some packages, having 10 of these fixes should qualify as serious enough for an update IMHO.
<seb128> but we can't close unconfirmed bugs like that
<MiserySalin> by the way... does someone will write a summary of this decisions? For new members to read it for what to do in this situations
<dholbach> I like seb128's proposal too
<dholbach> MiserySalin: I step up to do this
<MiserySalin> ah ok... thanks
<fabbione> seb128: the problems with your approach are:
<G0SUB> MiserySalin: a summary will be written
<fabbione> - the submitter might have provided info, the maintainer didn't check
<MiserySalin> Because I will forgot the half :-D
<fabbione> - most of the bugs are in Uncorfimed state
<ogra> cant we ask the launchpadders for such a feature (closing needinfo bugs automatically after some time
<fabbione> in this way you apply a "filter" that will help us almost >< this much
<ogra> )
<seb128> fabbione: my approach ensure I'm not frustating anybody by closing a bug that it took care to file and than nobody bothered commenting on
<Lure> fabbione: your proposal is to clean back log only now (once), but then later appliy the rule only to needs info?
<vuntz_> ogra: would be nice
<fabbione> seb128: that is why i underlined to politely ask to reopen if it is still true
<seb128> fabbione: sure
<fabbione> Lure: clean the backlog is a one operation only. It does not get repeated
<fabbione> the moment in which you clean the backlog, you MUST have the team in place to do the assigned task
<Toadstool> fabbione: once the bug is set to Needs Info, if someone adds a commentary the close timer could be reset too...
<fabbione> as i mentioned above
<Lure> fabbione: then we need to ensure that we do not get in similar situation again... 
<dholbach> I agree with seb128 here. His proposal requires more work, but it ensures that we don't tread on anyone's toes... if we take great care of setting bug statuses, the NeedInfo state should be effective enough for such closing of bugs
<seb128> fabbione: maybe malone should automatically reopen on new comment so bugs don't stay to Needs Infos (I say that but I hated that when GNOME did it)
<dholbach> lakin: you wanted to say something
<fabbione> seb128: i don't want malone to do anything, because it doesn't even have the basic tools to do what i am proposing
<lakin> Sure, no one single bug might be serious enough for an update for old releases, but for some packages, having 10 of these fixes should qualify as serious enough for an update IMHO.
<fabbione> seb128: like masschanging bugs
<seb128> it has
<slomo> fabbione: you can masschange bugs
<fabbione> lakin: 10 small fixes don't make one serious
<Lure> seb128: how?
<seb128> fabbione: do we have an xmlrpc interface yet?
<fabbione> slomo: no last time i checked.. like 2 days ago
<fabbione> seb128: no idea...
<dholbach> Ok... can we think of, what might be reasonable for the moment?
<slomo> fabbione: see https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/MaloneEmailInterfaceUserDoc#head-7e93c0730c2a71e7f7bccfbf0c3382b6adc962a5
<seb128> fabbione: anyway you can do a script and mail
<slomo> fabbione: but that isn't of much use for us here imho
<fabbione> slomo: yes i know the email interface, there are other practical issues :)
<lakin> not to mention that there might be local companies that provide support and/or fixes for non-development branches of ubuntu on a per fee basis that might want to track this stuff in launchpad.  I just can't accept that when something is fixed in the development release, that we should ignore it for older releases.
<fabbione> i discussed this exact problems 2 days ago with SteveA
<dholbach> lakin: some fixes are not suitable for backporting, like stuff that requires libary updates, or new upstream vresions
<seb128> we can get launchpad guys making default "lists" matching what we need easily
<fabbione> lakin: if you have a better proposal, please speak
<lakin> That is, until the release reaches the unsupported state.
<dholbach> lakin: -updates fixes need to be *very precise and focussed*
<seb128> let's not discuss what is backport material now
<ogra> and well tested
<fabbione> lakin: otherwise we need to create a team big enough to handle all of it
<seb128> it's rather maintainer decision anyway
<dholbach> yes
<lakin> I'm not suggesting that we start trying to fix it, just that we keep track of where the bug exists in older releases, but we can discuss this later.
<dholbach> ok... which lists and reports would help us much to assign them to the bug squad team?
<seb128> lakin: open a backport task
<lakin> seb128: k
<dholbach> "needsinfo, 3-4 weeks no info" was already mentioned
<seb128> there is an option to the right frame
<dholbach> what else can we think of?
<philbull> no replies?
<jsgotangco> yes
<philbull> these are usually quick to triage
<philbull> *usually*
<lakin> list of bugs which have no package
<seb128> "no package"? ie: assigned to "Ubuntu"?
<dholbach> lakin: these are a lot, but I agree, it would make much sense
<seb128> we already have that
<lakin> err, yes, filed against "ubuntu" 
<fabbione> - let 's assign a person or two to that?
<lakin> we do? where?
<fabbione> so that we can start having them reassinged to at least the proper team?
<Toadstool> lakin: with advanced search in malone maybe
<seb128> lakin: hum, in fact no, but that's just a wishlist for malone
<lakin> seb128: yeah, I've filed a bug against malone for it.
<dholbach> if we could set up a mailfilter for a new mailing list that'd be great "bug against Ubuntu, first bug post"
<jsgotangco> that would be nice
<G0SUB> I like the mailing list idea
<dholbach> i'll ask around, how we could achieve that
<seb128> lakin: number?
<dholbach> ok these two points would be easy for newcomers
<dholbach> and they surely would clean up malone
<dholbach> how do we approach the 6895 unconfirmed bugs?
<lakin> seb128, 35075
<zakame> one bug at a time
<philbull> dholbach: package at a time
<G0SUB> philbull: if there is no package?
<zakame> out of that 6k or so bugs a quarter or a half of those may be dupes
<philbull> hmmm
<dholbach> I'm going to announce bug days every two weeks - friday will be the next one... if teams are to propose 'packages to triage' that'll be fine
<lakin> One problem with approaching the unconfirmed bugs are that there are quite a few older bugs which have an unconfirmed status, but which have been: assigned properly, commented on by developers, and are even in the midst of being fixed ... we need ubuntu developers to keep up with their bug lists like seb128 does.
<jsgotangco> could we like focus on specific packages for some hug days
<jsgotangco> like desktop-bugs in 2 weeks
<G0SUB> jsgotangco: ++
<seb128> there is an import bug which hurts for that
<philbull> what are the packages with most bugs against them?
<seb128> all the "UPSTREAM" bugs have been imported as "unconfirmed"
<dholbach> philbull: nautilus, evolution
<philbull> but do we have an exact list?
<G0SUB> ugh!
<dholbach> (on the Desktop side)
* sladen is late.  He's also Paul Sladen.
<Lure> philbull: would be good to have top list by package
<lakin> I started to go through them, but felt like I might be stepping on developers toes ... and I admit, all I was doing was confirming them.  What's the approach we should take with them?
<philbull> b.g.o has this
<dholbach> https://launchpad.net/people/desktop-bugs/+packagebugs
<philbull> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/page.cgi?id=reports.html
<dholbach> lakin: that's something every bug triager has to live with, you *might* step on somebody's toes, but mostly you learn by it :-)
<jsgotangco> the worse thing you'll get is that it gets rejected
<lakin> dholbach: I know, but when you're working through a list of bugs, and _every_ bug makes you feel like you're doing this, it makes it tough to motivate yourself to continue.
<seb128> lakin: you don't go on anybody else toes if you don't edit the same bug at the same time which is not really likely
* lakin needs thicker skin, apparently
<seb128> lakin: best way to not steep on the toes of anybody, pick the bugs older than a week
<seb128> you can assume you don't "jump" on the bug before the maintainer has a chance to comment so
<irvin> and asking around #ubuntu-motu and #ubuntu-devel does help
<dholbach> i like the "by package" approach, if we would send out the BugSquad News (hi vuntz!), we could link to the packages we'Re about to check and which ones we cleaned already
<seb128> lakin: I've pinged bradb about #35075 he will try to get it fixed for next launchpad update
<dholbach> and #ubuntu-bugs
<lakin> seb128: ++
<lakin> :)
<dholbach> so now we have three things which will hopefully make life easier: 1) old-needs-info-cleaning, 2) new-ubuntu-bugs-triaging and 3) by-package-cleanup
<jsgotangco> i like the package group approach
<dholbach> jsgotangco: what do you mean by package group?
<jsgotangco> like for a certain time frame do triage on desktop
<jsgotangco> the move to a new set after that
<G0SUB> yeah, that's a good idea IMO
<philbull> i'm worried that those groups are too big
<G0SUB> like we declare that in the next HUG day we take a look at desktop-bugs
<slomo> philbull: dito... we should use smaller groups of packages...
<slomo> not something as big as desktop
<dholbach> jsgotangco: I'm not quite sure that Kubuntu people will have much patience with that... e.g: assign bugs to panel/applets, nautilus/gnomevfs, etc - they most likely won't be able to test bugs proplery
<jsgotangco> well evolution alone has tons
<G0SUB> hehe
<dholbach> What I'm trying to say is that people have areas, where they're good at
<dholbach> so "triage what you know/work with" might be a good mantra to get started
<seb128> better if people work on what they are interested
<dholbach> jsgotangco: does that make sense? or isn't this what you meant?
<jsgotangco> well it does make sense to me
<jsgotangco> i focus on certain apps
<jsgotangco> instead of tackling the whole Unassigned bit
<jsgotangco> it can be overwhelming even for a team
<dholbach> yeah
<jjesse> i do as well, ij ust try to focus on the little things that i can help with
<lakin> I think if we get a nice set of reports of bugs that the ubuntu-bug squad is responsible for, and have a way to split these reports up by packages, or sets of packages, it will be easy to get a list that each person feels comfortable working through.
<jsgotangco> i just notice that there are active bugs out there with lots of comments but people are afraid to at least change the status to needs info or confirmed
<dholbach> so if we would start wiki pages with what set we're currently working on, say kubuntu team does kdeedu and kdebase and desktop team does nautilus and gnomevfs for a week and we send a report to the maiing list it'd be great to show we're actually moving something
<jsgotangco> even if there's like 5+ conversations going
<jjesse> agreed jsgotangco
<Lure> jsgotangco: +1
<G0SUB> dholbach: +1
<dholbach> I feel that we move step by step and people will accept the idea of bug statuses more and more
<dholbach> do you think that with the ideas we had, it's easy enough for newcomers to begin?
<zakame> dholbach: +1
<dholbach> maybe some of the new guys in here can speak up and tell us about their experiences
<Toadstool> dholbach: +1
<ogra> dholbach, apart from kdeedu being part of edubuntu +1 as well :)
<philbull> the documentation for triaging needs to be more explicit
<dholbach> who starts BugSquad/DocumentationTODO on the wiki?
<philbull> I just did
<dholbach> so if we had better documentation and tell them: "this week'S bugs are gnome-system-tools, gnome-utils and gthumb" will make it easy for them?
<philbull> easier...not easy
<dholbach> (if they're interested in the Desktop end of bug triage)
<G0SUB> It might
<seb128> should we have a list to discuss bugs on?
<philbull> there are things that need to be explained
<dholbach> What else is missing?
<dholbach> is the coverage on #ubuntu-bugs good enough?
<philbull> well, I had real problems deciding who to assign things to
<philbull> #ubuntu-bugs is good, yeah :)
<dholbach> oh yes... a "team list" might be useful, with explanations of what they do
<seb128> the issue is that "they"(== launchpad team) don't want to do default assignee
<seb128> the workflow is supposed people are subscribed to a bug
<ogra> meh
<dholbach> seb128: we just shouldn't name it ...-bugs@, so people start reporting bugs there ;)
<seb128> and you take the assignment only when you start working on something
<dholbach> and I think that's a good idea
<Toadstool> a bigger disclaimer about duplicates on the "report a bug" page and a smarter search engine would also make things a little easier to my mind
<dholbach> so it's more a matter of subscribing then assigning
<dholbach> Toadstool: the duplicates thing is filed as well
<dholbach> Toadstool: but I agree it's needed
<dholbach> back to the "team's list"
<dholbach> for "Ubuntu" bugs, it makes sense
<ogra> and the search engine is constantly beiong worked on ...
<ogra> it will improve over time
<dholbach> "this might be an X problem, who do I subscribe to get input?" is a valid question
<dholbach> ok, now we all know that fabbione is the X god, but still... some people might not know yet :)
<zakame> dholbach: heh I just asked that question some time ago
* jsgotangco prays to X god to fix those x bugs
<fabbione> jsgotangco: i am in really urgent need of help triaging bugs
<fabbione> i just can't get anywork done with 500 bugs of backlog
* jsgotangco starts looking at xorg
<lakin> after some of the recent mailing lists discussions I made this page (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingBugReporters) which got a bit of traffic.  the comments by AndreasSchildibach and FrancoisDenisGonthier might be appropriate for this meeting?
<fabbione> jsgotangco: wanna team up for that?
<fabbione> jsgotangco: i am not asking you to fix.. just to triage
<jsgotangco> sure
<G0SUB> fabbione: I am willing
<jsgotangco> any particular package?
<zakame> fabbione: me too
<fabbione> ok.. if you guys are volunteering.. let's take it after the meeting
<G0SUB> ok
<fabbione> i will give you hints on how to start
<jsgotangco> cool
<dholbach> (I hope everybody signed up for http://launchpad.net/people/bugsquad already)
<dholbach> what about seb128's idea of a bugsquad mailing list?
<fabbione> dholbach: we are already on 20000 ml
<fabbione> we should keep this process slim and fast
<jsgotangco> lol
<fabbione> i am not sure YAML will help here
<dholbach> fabbione: new triagers might not be and some are not on IRC all day
<dholbach> it's just a question at the moment
<ogra> fabbione, dont argue with dholbach about mailing lists ... youre surely loose in the end :P
<zakame> haha
<Toadstool> :)
<dholbach> ogra: pffft
<G0SUB> YAML? Yet Another Mailing List ? (wasn't it YAML Ain't a Markup Language?)
<fabbione> dholbach: if we are going to use the ml for discussion i am ok...
<ogra> thats how he always starts ... "<dholbach> it's just a question at the moment"
<seb128> the issue is to have a place out of IRC where people can ask about whatever is an issue for them
<fabbione> but if it will become a duplicate of ubuntu-bugs, it's pointless
<ogra> :)
<seb128> like they are not sure of where to assign stuff, or how to start or what to do about a bug
<dholbach> fabbione: i 100%ly agree
<jsgotangco> i'd go for organizational stuff
<dholbach> i like the idea too
<fabbione> dholbach: ok
<seb128> not a list to sends all the bugs we get
<ogra> fabbione, ubuntu-bugs is only an auto importer for malone, isnt it ?
<fabbione> ok.. works for me
<kagou> seb128: i agree
<dholbach> cool
<ogra> s/for/from/
<dholbach> so how do we make the next hug day a blast?
<fabbione> dholbach: kill all bugs? :D
<dholbach> apart from filing detailed descriptions of what to work on (on the wiki), improving our documentation?
<zakame> uhh, finding people who will make the hug day a blast =)
<dholbach> everybody of us paints a picture of bugs and we blog it to link to the hug day announce? :-)
<kagou> fabbione: how ? do you have a black hole ?
<fabbione> dholbach: ime the major issue is the  "burocracy" behind working on bug.. we need to make the process slim
<fabbione> kagou: you have one too.. /dev/null
<dholbach> fabbione: bureaucracy like what?
<ogra> dholbach, using malone
<G0SUB> heh
<fabbione> dholbach: like people asking what they should work on, how to do it.. etc.. they should just do in a perfect world :)
<lakin> Is one of the improved documentation items going to be lists of searches that produce bugs of a certain triage-status along with links to the standard responses to those types of bugs?  (Could help new members feel more comfortable about the first sets of bugs that they triage)?
<dholbach> ogra: if you can't depict the picture a bit clearer, we're unable to discuss it
<zakame> hmm, speaking of getting slimmer, does the new reportbug work on LP?
<dholbach> fabbione: right
<dholbach> zakame: no
<dholbach> lakin: that's a brilliant idea
<ogra> dholbach, the malone workflow is horrible compared to bugzilla ... i wont argue about that here, since it will improve ... but its a major slowdown ...
<dholbach> lakin: we should take that maybe to #ubuntu-bugs later on
<lakin> ok
<seb128> GNOME guys do a "theme list" for every bug day
<seb128> like "previous cycle bugs" to triage
<ogra> dholbach, nothing to discuss, just a statement ...
<G0SUB> ogra: it's just a PITA (malone)
<seb128> or "new unconfirmed"
<fabbione> seb128: ++
<seb128> we could do some theme day
<Toadstool> that's a great idea
<seb128> "multimedia bugs" day
<ogra> G0SUB, it will improve 
<dholbach> cool
<dholbach> apart from that... I was serious about the PR machinery for the next hug day, how do we do it? :-)
<slomo> seb128: that's a very very very good idea ;)
<G0SUB> ogra: I hope it does ...
<fabbione> hmmmmm
<fabbione> seb128: the idea of theme is good, but we have one issue...
<lakin> I prefer themes days to asking for certain packages to be done on a specific hug-day.  Everyone works on that theme within the sets of packages they feel comfortable with.
<fabbione> let say it's "X hugs day"
<fabbione> am I expected to be around 36 hours for coverage?
<dholbach> we made it UTC times the last time, so just 24h
<fabbione> well
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/Attending
<fabbione> i am still not capable of working 24 hours in a raw on X
<fabbione> given i am almost the only one working on it
<dholbach> what do you all think about giving fabio a hand on next hug day?
<fabbione> dholbach: when is that?
<dholbach> friday
<fabbione> *shrug*
<fabbione> ok let's talk about time and life
<fabbione> first lesson:
<G0SUB> let's make the next one `X HUG Day'
<fabbione> - there is a life out there... and it's not made of little greeen men 
<ogra> pffft
<G0SUB> heh
<ogra> thats what yopur *wife* tells you !
<fabbione> ogra: yes!
<fabbione> ok...
<fabbione> anyway
<ogra> dont belive her !!
<fabbione> let's try it on friday
<fabbione> but i won't be able to cover more than 10/12 hours
<lakin> Until we get a bug-reporter application (like discussed on ubuntu-devel) which can automatically gather various information from the machine before reporting the bug, could we ask the developers to edit a certain wiki pages with default information that is needed for certain packages.  So we can start the process of gathering extra information for the bug-reports?
<dholbach> lakin: DebuggingProcedures
<dholbach> but it needs love for sure
<dholbach> we should put it on a big todo list too
<lakin> ok.
<dholbach> and we should send out detailed minutes of the meeting so everybody knows what we work on/worked on
<Toadstool> yeah well I think that's one of the point we should work on, improve WiKi pages about debugging
<G0SUB> goody :)
<fabbione> dholbach: time.. we are at 68 minutes
<fabbione> dholbach: i suggest a break or to stop
<dholbach> i want to finish with sladen's questions
<fabbione> ok
<dholbach> and take the rest to #ubuntu-bugs
<dholbach> where I hope you all hang out from now on
<sladen> lakin: we sort-of have the hwdb, but can't get any data back out of that
<dholbach> sladen had some questions as well, to answer some of them: point 1) what is the problem exactly? point 2) this would mean a bug report on Malone, no? 3) yes, it's a leftover, which will hopefully/perhaps be reactivated
<ogra> sladen, sure you can ... you can download the speciofic dataset and read it in vi ...
<dholbach> I will try to take care of the mailing list and all other stuff we covered, but I'll need you help for some of them, but let's take that to #ubuntu-bugs
<jsgotangco> ogra: open up 20GB in vi? :D
<ogra> jsgotangco, one dataset is ~240k
<dholbach> We should have a meeting again, after we see how our efforts emerge, but maybe we can discuss this on our fresh mailing list, when we have it.
<sladen> dholbach: We should document somewhere that we don't fix non-security bugs in released versions (and can point users at that page)
<ogra> the whole db is 5G currently ... (~220000 entries)
<sladen> dholbach: could do with a   Unconfirmed Needs Info   and an   Confirmed Needs Info
<dholbach> sladen: we should add it to http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses
<dholbach> sladen: that should be discussed with the Launchheads, no?
<ogra> sladen, the concept will change a bit for the 3/5y supported reelases
<sladen> dholbach: and (3), Debzilla should die and isn't actually related to debbugs
<seb128> sorry I was away a few min
<dholbach> sladen: that's not something we as a bugsquad have to decided
<dholbach> decide
* sladen happy.  done.
<dholbach> I want to thank you all for being here and trying to make the best out of the bug situation. I think this was a very productive meeting.
<G0SUB> :)
<dholbach> Thank you all!
<G0SUB> cheers!
<seb128> fabbione: you don't need to be here the whole day, some other people should have enough clue to triage basic xorg stuff (mark duplicates, figure if that's a driver issue, etc)
<ogra> dholbach, thanks for leading us :)
<zakame> thanks
<philbull> thanks dholbach :)
<Toadstool> thanks dholbach ^^
<fabbione> ok guys
<fabbione> for who would like to help with X triaging
<dholbach> thanks
<fabbione> i suggest we take a 5 minutes break
<kagou> thanks dholbach
<seb128> thank you dholbach
<fabbione> and i will give some highlights on how to do it on #ubuntu-bugs
<fabbione> does that work?
<dholbach> fabbione: maybe we can add some stuff to http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProcedures
<seb128> fabbione: feel free to do a wiki page on the topic :)
<fabbione> dholbach: there should be already a page for that
<zakame> coolness!
<lakin> thanks dholbach
<fabbione> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingXAutoconfiguration
<fabbione> see
<jsgotangco> ok
<fabbione> ok be back in 5
<zakame> oki
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 29 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 30 Mar 02:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 30 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu Cookbook | 31 Mar 21:00 UTC: Documentation Team | 03 Apr 09:00 UTC: Community Council
* highvoltage reads dholbach's mail about finding bugsquad and realises he missed the meeting
<zakame> highvoltage: awww
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-04-02
<robitaille> @topic
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 29 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 29 Mar 14:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 30 Mar 02:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 30 Mar 16:00 UTC: Edubuntu Cookbook | 31 Mar 21:00 UTC: Documentation Team
<dholbach> ID
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Technical Board | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 29 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 29 Mar 14:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 30 Mar 02:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 30 Mar 16:00 UTC: Edubuntu Cookbook | 31 Mar 21:00 UTC: Documentation Team
<mjg59> mdz: Hi
<pitti> hi
<ogra> meep  meep
<mjg59> mdz: Yo?
<mdz> mjg59: hi
<mdz> I think we're it; no response from sabdfl or Kamion
<ogra> KEybuk ?
<mdz> er Keybuk
<ogra> :)
<mjg59> Heh
<mdz> let's give them 5 minutes
<mdz> while we look over the agenda
<mjg59> Scott's on holiday this week, I believe
<mdz> hmm, through tomorrow, yes
<mdz> and sabdfl is out to dinner apparently
<ogra> not really an agenda today
<ogra> only candidates ...
<mdz> that is part of the permanent agenda
<mdz> no new core candidates
<ogra> oh, daf is going for MOTU ?
<mdz> are any ubuntu-dev candidates present?
<mjg59> daf isn't around right now
<mjg59> (And his phone isn't being answered)
<dholbach> so my ping was a bit pointless :)
<ogra> heh
<mdz> dholbach: did you ping the person who applied yesterday?
<dholbach> yes
<dholbach> no answers
<mdz> wow, we really may have no agenda
<mjg59> Ha
<mdz> is there any other business?
* mvo is suprised
<mjg59> I left the pub for this!!?!?!?!?!?!!!?!?
<mjg59> (ahem)
<mjg59> Not that I would turn up to a TB meeting under the influence
<mdz> of course not
<mdz> especially on a tuesday
<mjg59> Indeed
<mdz> last call for tech board business...
<mdz> hearing none, adjourned
<mdz> mjg59: enjoy the pub
<ogra> :)
<zul> drive safely..
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-03-26
<sid> @schedule New_York
<ubotu> Schedule for America/New_York: 27 Mar 04:00: MOTU | 27 Mar 16:00: Technical Board | 28 Mar 16:00: Edubuntu | 28 Mar 18:00: Xubuntu | 29 Mar 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Apr 16:00: Marketing Team
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<BFTD> hi
<manchicken> I R Here
* allee too
<Riddell> oh hi
<Riddell> JohnFlux?
<JohnFlux> hey
<Riddell> Noel Torres about?
<Riddell> has everyone been contacted by canonical?
<JohnFlux> I haven't
<Riddell> JohnFlux: they've probably been trying your kdemail.net address
<envite> I'm Noel Torres
<kwwii> hi
<Noel_Torres> I'm usually Envite in chats, mails, svn, ...
<Riddell> JohnFlux: please e-mail claire.newman@canonical.com and say who you are and ask for details for the travel agent
<JohnFlux> Riddell: ah, and the servers aren't working that well
<allee> Riddell: yes,  I've confirmed the flight  with Claire already
<Riddell> JohnFlux: I'm going by train, if you want to get the same trains let me know
<Riddell> manchicken: your travel sorted?
<Riddell> hi Noel_Torres, pleased to meet you
<Riddell> Noel_Torres: are you coming to UDS and/or UES?
<Noel_Torres> No, i'll not
<manchicken> I'm waiting for Canonical's travel folks to get back to me.  They asked me to confirm my travel dates, I did, haven't heard from them since.
<Noel_Torres> somebody must keep the fort :)
<Noel_Torres> pleased to meet you too
<Riddell> Noel_Torres: ok, so Cristo is coming and Agustn right?
<Noel_Torres> Yes, but probably they will be three
<Riddell> Noel_Torres: do you know who else?
<Noel_Torres> Cristo, Agustn and Gonzalo Aller
<manchicken> I doubt that they sent anything, but there was a slight snafu on my mail account that could have missed it, but it was a very small window.
<Riddell> Noel_Torres: ok, do you know if they're all staying for the whole thing?
<Riddell> manchicken: just e-mail them in a day or two if you don't hear back
<manchicken> Righto.
<Noel_Torres> About staying I don't know, about (very) interested in assist, no
<allee> manchicken: I've confirmed this morning ~ 1.00 and Claire replied okay-thx two hours later
<allee> 11.00 that is
<Noel_Torres> Agustin and Gonzalo wants to assist to education and community days, and Cristo to coding days
<Noel_Torres> mostly
<Riddell> Noel_Torres: ok, tell them to make sure it's clear to Claire Newman who is staying for which days
<allee> did anyone wake up Hobbsee?
<Riddell> allee: I phoned, got an answerphone
<Noel_Torres> I'll tell them
<Riddell> next thing is you should all register to be at the meeting on launchpad https://code.beta.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-sevilla/+attend
<allee> :)
<manchicken> allee: Are you going through their travel folks?
<Riddell> or rather https://code.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-sevilla/+attend
<allee> manchicken: yes,  dionne@eyas
<kwwii> Riddell: do I need to add myself to that page too?
<Riddell> kwwii: yes
<Riddell> from  2007-05-06  to  2007-05-11
<kwwii> Riddell: thnx
<Riddell> is everyone clear that this isn't a conference?  it's a summit to write specs for the next 6 months based on small group sessions
<manchicken> Ooh, I don't now the times....
<Noel_Torres> We know
<Riddell> manchicken: just the date is enough
<manchicken> Righto.
<manchicken> so 5/6 through 5/11?
<allee> manchicken: see on the right hand side.  but looks like they are not used on the left hand side ;)
<Riddell> manchicken: 21:17 < Riddell> from  2007-05-06  to  2007-05-11
<manchicken> Brewtiful.
<manchicken> Ooh, will there be beer or will I have to provide my own?
<Riddell> all meals are paid for
<manchicken> I can do either, I just need to know how much a tasty beer is over there.
<Riddell> sometimes conferences we have dinner in the hotel, some out
<manchicken> ah.
<Riddell> don't know which will happen this time
<JohnFlux> Riddell: shall I speak to Claire about trying to share a room with my wife there?
<Riddell> JohnFlux: yes
<JohnFlux> ah ha!
<kwwii> manchicken: beer is resonable but you have to pay for it ;-)
<JohnFlux> you just said it wasn't a conference :P
<Riddell> manchicken: if we eat out then you get a daily allowance for dinner.  if you want you can eat cheap porridge and spend the rest on beer
* kwwii wonders who's wife he gets to room with
<manchicken> When I did the Perl Hackathon there was beer provided, but they certainly accepted contributions :)
<allee> lol
<manchicken> Ah.  Righto.
<allee> Hobbsee: morning!
<manchicken> I like cheap porridge as long as there's tasty beer.
<manchicken> :)
<manchicken> Grain carbos and beer.  THAT, my friends, is how to get through college.
<manchicken> (even though I never got through)
<kwwii> ;-)
<manchicken> kwwii: BTW, is it my imagination or did you redo the login screen for feisty?
<Riddell> now the agenda
<Riddell> I'm not sure why but they don't seem to be using launchpad for registering specs this time
<kwwii> manchicken: not since I changed it the first time
<Riddell> but my list so far is...
<Riddell> Adept User Notifications
<Riddell> Adept Cdrom Upgrades
<Riddell> Kubuntu Accessibilty Keyboard
<Riddell> Kubuntu Kiosktool
<Riddell> Kubuntu Feisty+1 KDE 4 Plan
<Riddell> Kubuntu System Settings for KDE 4
<Riddell> Kubuntu Guidance for KDE 4
<Riddell> Kubuntu Restricted Manager
<Riddell> Kubuntu Feisty+1 Adept Plan
<Riddell> Edubuntu KDE
<Riddell> Kubuntu Website
<Riddell> any suggestions or questions about those?
<Noel_Torres> yes
<Hobbsee> heya!
<Hobbsee> sorry for lateness
<Riddell> morning Hobbsee
<Noel_Torres> we're using RT as our bugs submitting and managing system
<Riddell> Hobbsee: is your travel sorted?
<kwwii> Riddell: there will probably be one for new artwork for derivatives as well
<Noel_Torres> and we'll have a very big user base
<Hobbsee> Riddell: not yet.  in discussions with the travel agent
<Hobbsee> had to wait to see if elkbuntu was getting sponsored yet
<Riddell> kwwii: you should add it to https://wiki.canonical.com/UDS-Sevilla/Agenda
<Noel_Torres> so we want to find the way of joining our system with official ubuntu/kubuntu bugtracking systems
<kwwii> Riddell: will do...wanted to talk to Mark about that first though
<Riddell> Noel_Torres: I'm sure there is, I'll add that to the agenda, it'll need a launchpad person there
<Noel_Torres> and we want to talk about kwifimanager, ltsp, monitoring, sudo&kdesudo and kmenu
<Riddell> Noel_Torres: I can add a general meduxa and Kubuntu session too
<Noel_Torres> and by last thing (I'm sorry but i have a hardcopy by Agustin)
<Riddell> Noel_Torres: it's all good
<Noel_Torres> we're using MediaWiki for generating content and we want to submit to Ubuntu
<allee> oh, https://wiki.canonical.com/UDS-Sevilla/Agenda is password protected
<Noel_Torres> mainly kubuntu user manuals
<JohnFlux> Riddell: I don't have access to that page you said
<Hobbsee> Riddell: i think i'm at Ubucon the day before, actually
<Riddell> JohnFlux: no, it's top secret
<Riddell> JohnFlux: I'm not sure why, but that's the way they're doing it
<JohnFlux> Riddell: I did have an email from claire - I had just ignored it :-D
<Riddell> Noel_Torres: ok, I'll add a session for that too
<Hobbsee> Riddell: are you sure that all meals are paid for?  apparently for MTV that didnt happen.  was that canonical employees only?
<JohnFlux> Riddell: I've replied back and told her about the accomodation etc
<Riddell> JohnFlux: tsk
<Noel_Torres> Riddell: Ok, I'll tell Agustin and the others about that
<JohnFlux> Hobbsee: at google?
<Riddell> Hobbsee: at MTV lunch was free on google and dinner you paid for and claimed back from your daily allowance from canonical
<manchicken> Sorry, having to deal with a car problem, I'm trying to pay attention :)
<Hobbsee> JohnFlux: yes
<JohnFlux> Hobbsee: the food was _at_ google for free
<Hobbsee> Riddell: ahhh.  okay
<Hobbsee> JohnFlux: i'd heard otherwise
<JohnFlux> Hobbsee: and you got like $20 a day for evening food
<Hobbsee> JohnFlux: neat
<JohnFlux> I gained like 10 KG there!
<JohnFlux> too much food!
<Noel_Torres> May I say one more thing?
<Hobbsee> hehe.  sounds good - as i need to
<Riddell> Noel_Torres: please do
<JohnFlux> Riddell: is the train more expensive than to fly?
<Noel_Torres> Ok, thanks. We're starting a community for three Canary Islands's Linux distributions
<Hobbsee> ah, so more people have been thinking of taking the train
<Riddell> JohnFlux: sometimes, although canonical should pay
<Riddell> Hobbsee: I don't suggest you do :)
<Noel_Torres> it's called HeXprides (www.hexperides.org)
<allee> Hobbsee: you too?
<Hobbsee> Riddell: why?
<JohnFlux> Riddell: yeah but there's the woman
<Hobbsee> allee: thinking about it
<Noel_Torres> one of the distros (meduxa) is kubuntu based, and other one is Ubuntu based
<JohnFlux> Riddell: unless we put here in the luggage or something
<Noel_Torres> so we'll have a big community (we at least hope so)
<allee> Hobbsee: train? From Australia?  Interesting!
<Riddell> JohnFlux: fair point.  there's also the planet of course
<JohnFlux> meh
<JohnFlux> the planes fly to carry goods
<Noel_Torres> and we want to determine the best way for general (K)ubuntu and HeXprides communities to interact
<JohnFlux> people don't weigh much
<Hobbsee> allee: heh.  no, only from madrid
<JohnFlux> that's why easyjet etc offer such low fares
<JohnFlux> the money from people doesn't even cover the salaries
<JohnFlux> all the money is from cargo shipping
<JohnFlux> if nobody at all flew, easyjet etc would still fly as many planes
<JohnFlux> :-)
<JohnFlux> or something
<Hobbsee> Riddell: what are the tentative plans for kde 4 and feisty+1?
<Riddell> Hobbsee: well, that's what we'll be discussing in that session :)
<Riddell> Noel_Torres: ok, I've put that down too
<allee> Hobbsee: fwiw: everything we plan to do with KDE 3 has to be done with an eye on how to do it in KDE 4
<Hobbsee> allee: true
<Noel_Torres> Riddell: ok, thanks
<Hobbsee> Riddell: i realise that.  i was more wantign to know if we'd be aiming for kde4 in this release or not
<kwwii> SUSE is planning a release around the same time, or? if so, I would bet that they release with kde4 (even if they shop a kde3 as well)
<allee> Hobbsee: didn't read Riddels blog?
<kwwii> s/shop/ship
<Riddell> Hobbsee: probably not, KDE 4 release is after Kubuntu release
<Hobbsee> allee: it's on planet, adn it's not showing as unread, so i would have
<Hobbsee> Riddell: right, OK
<JohnFlux> you should probably allow for kde4 to be late by a few months
<Riddell> that too
<JohnFlux> it will quite probably be on time etc
<Riddell> any other comments on the items I've scheduled?  or suggestions for others?
<JohnFlux> but you can't set a kubuntu release date on it
<kwwii> we should just make sure that there is good docu on how to install kde4 (even if it is not done it will be of interest for many)
<allee> Riddell: bluetooth is a mess.  Can be made better in feisty+1
<Riddell> allee: would be nice
<Riddell> I'll put that down
<Riddell> groovy, seems we're done
<Riddell> thanks all, see you en espanol
<Riddell> any last questions?
<manchicken> Yeah...
<manchicken> Got a tow truck I could borrow?
<Noel_Torres> i hope that's all
<Riddell> thanks for coming Noel_Torres
<allee> yeah, nothing from my side
<Riddell> manchicken: can't say I do
<manchicken> That's a shame.
<Riddell> oh yes, everyone has to be up by 09:00
<Noel_Torres> don't worry, it has been a pleasure
<Riddell> most important rule that
<JohnFlux> I can do 9:00 easy
<JohnFlux> that's like 11pm spainish time
* Hobbsee will be getting elkbuntu to wake her up...
<JohnFlux> 11am
<Hobbsee> :P
<allee> Hobbsee: who's elkbuntu?
<Hobbsee> Riddell: only asking why taking the train was bad - i dont think you answered me
<manchicken> I can do 0900 as long as the timezone change doesn't murder me.
<kwwii> Hobbsee: a kiwi :p
<Hobbsee> allee: another aussie ubuntu girl - i'm rooming/travelling with her with her
<Hobbsee> kwwii: nope, she's not a kiwi :P
<lifeless> morning folk
<JohnFlux> hmm, i can't find an airline that flys to San Pablo :-)
<Hobbsee> hiya lifeless
<lifeless> *I'm* a kiwi :)
<kwwii> Hobbsee: oops, an aussie
<JohnFlux> lifeless: heh, and lifeless
<ajmitch> morning lifeless :)
<manchicken> What clever name are we going to use for feisty+1?
<Noel_Torres> guppy grog ?
<kwwii> grumpy groundhog (that's me)
<manchicken> Goofy Goat?
<kwwii> as my birthday is on groundhogs day
<manchicken> Ah.
<Mithrandir> it'll probably be two names, with the first one being an adjective and the other a noun. :-P
<manchicken> That is quite clever.
<manchicken> heh
<kwwii> and I bet after 3 months working for the company he'll name the next product after me
<ajmitch> grumpy is already taken
<manchicken> heh
<kwwii> Riddell: as far as the website, we are discussing the new cms, making a nice K layout and transferring the existing info, or?
<Riddell> Hobbsee: because you live on an island surrounded by water
<Hobbsee> Riddell: *grin*
<ajmitch> Riddell: that's a continent. I live on an island
<Hobbsee> Riddell: i only meant from madrid :P
<Riddell> JohnFlux: the travel agent does that for you
<Riddell> Hobbsee: from madrid is fine
* ajmitch needs to get stuff sorted with the travel agent asap
<Riddell> ajmitch: looks like an archipeligo to me, but only because that's a cool word to say
<kwwii> lol
<JohnFlux> Riddell: the Eyas one?
<Riddell> JohnFlux: yes
<Hobbsee> Riddell: didnt you know about the train lines that go from australia, all the way into asia, and the ones that go around the rest of the wolrd?
<JohnFlux> Riddell: there website doesn't even work in firefox
<JohnFlux> or at least, I couldn't work it out at all
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: oh, over those big bridges?
<Hobbsee> JohnFlux: just email them.  it's all flash enabled
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: yep
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: I did take the train from Oslo to Hong Kong once, so you can nearly do that. :-)
<Riddell> JohnFlux: why do you need their website?  just e-mail them
<JohnFlux> Hobbsee: yeah I have flash installed
<JohnFlux> Riddell: :/
<manchicken> Hobbsee: Yeah, I've ridden the one from California to Tokyo several times ;)
<Hobbsee> :P
<Riddell> Mithrandir: must have been a fun 6 weeks :)
<Mithrandir> Riddell: more like three and a half, but yes.
<kwwii> the trip is a vacation in itself
<ajmitch> kwwii: it's long enough for me to fly to spain
* kwwii has to fly over mallorca
<Mithrandir> kwwii: that was kinda the point.
* ajmitch has to go half way round the world
<kwwii> Mithrandir: sounds like fun, actually
<manchicken> I wonder how long the flight to Sevilla will actually be.
<ajmitch> 30+ hours :)
<Noel_Torres> well, I'm going bed
<Noel_Torres> goodby all!
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: yep.  it's nasty
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: are you thinking of taking the train from madrid?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: thinking about it, yeah
<ajmitch> brave
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: why so?
<ajmitch> oh, how much spanish can you read/speak? :)
<Hobbsee> not a word
<Hobbsee> (yet)
<ajmitch> hehe
* ajmitch probably wouldn't have time to see the country like that
<ajmitch> back later
<JohnFlux> Riddell: if you go by train, will you still do that via eyas?
<Riddell> JohnFlux: no, I didn't
<Riddell> although I believe you can
<JohnFlux> Riddell: you've already booked?
<Riddell> JohnFlux: yes
<JohnFlux> Riddell: How much did it cost?
<Riddell> dunno, someone else did it
<[ade] > missed it entirely, i suppose
<Riddell> hi [ade] 
<Riddell> [ade] : -> #kubuntu-devel
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-03-27
<JohnFlux> Riddell: can you send me the details of your train travel?
<shawarma> @schedule Copenhagen
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Copenhagen: 27 Mar 10:00: MOTU | 27 Mar 22:00: Technical Board | 28 Mar 22:00: Edubuntu | 29 Mar 00:00: Xubuntu | 29 Mar 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Apr 22:00: Marketing Team
<nixternal> @schedule chicago
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 27 Mar 03:00: MOTU | 27 Mar 15:00: Technical Board | 28 Mar 15:00: Edubuntu | 28 Mar 17:00: Xubuntu | 29 Mar 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Apr 15:00: Marketing Team
<AndrewB> !london
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about london - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<AndrewB> !schedule london
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about schedule london - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<bimberi> @schedule london
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/London: 27 Mar 09:00: MOTU | 27 Mar 21:00: Technical Board | 28 Mar 21:00: Edubuntu | 28 Mar 23:00: Xubuntu | 29 Mar 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Apr 21:00: Marketing Team
<bimberi> AndrewB: ^^^^
<AndrewB> ahh
<AndrewB> thanks bimberi
<bimberi> AndrewB: yw :)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: MOTU | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 28 Mar 22:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 29 Mar 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Apr 20:00 UTC: Marketing Team
<ajmitch> ok, are we having a meeting or not? :)
* ajmitch has heard apologies from a couple of MOTUs
<TheMuso> Hey all.
<ajmitch> hi TheMuso
<TheMuso> Have I missed anything? )
<ajmitch> nothing at all
<ajmitch> so far it's just the two of us
<TheMuso> Ah ok.
<ajmitch> & the only thing on the agenda so far is the MC charter
<ajmitch> hi sistpoty
<TheMuso> SO I can see.
<TheMuso> Hey sistpoty.
<sistpoty> hi ajmitch and TheMuso
* sistpoty yawns
<ajmitch> you're up very early today ;)
<sistpoty> hehe
* geser yawns too
<sistpoty> ok, do we want to start with the meeting?
<dholbach> heya
<sistpoty> hi dholbach
<ajmitch> hi dholbach
<ajmitch> sistpoty: we've been trying ;)
<sistpoty> :)
<sistpoty> ok, anyone volunteering to do the minutes?
<TheMuso> Yeah ok.
<sistpoty> TheMuso: does that mean you're volunteering for the minutes? :)
<ajmitch> yes
<TheMuso> sistpoty: It does indeed.
<ajmitch> don't let him get away
<sistpoty> great, thanks!
<TheMuso> np
<dholbach> ok, let's get started
<sistpoty> yes... *looking at the agenda*
<dholbach> sistpoty wants to discuss "Work out MOTU Council's charter MOTU/Council/Charter"
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Council/Charter
* TheMuso reads
<sistpoty> ok, since the motu council still is in the way in finding its place in motu community, which has caused some annoyance recently, we've tried to get this sorted out into a proposal during the last motu council meeting
<sistpoty> now, I've tried to put this in the charter somehow last night, I hope I got it in a good way ;)
<sistpoty> so basically I'm asking here everyone, what you think of it, what needs to be changed/improved
<sistpoty> and finally to acknowledge the charter (or reject it, if it's all wrong *g*)
<dholbach> I'm basically very happy with it
<dholbach> any other opinions on it?
<TheMuso> I like the idea of a MOTU meeting every two weeks.
* ajmitch is happy
<dholbach> regular events++
<TheMuso> The way I see the MOTU council, is a group of individuals that are well known and respected in the group, who have the skills and experience to approve/decline candidates, and make difficult decisions if needed.
<TheMuso> WHich is basically what it is anyway.
<TheMuso> So yeah sounds good to me. :)
<sistpoty> :)
<TheMuso> What disputes if any would there be between MOTUs?
<ajmitch> technical arguments, generally
<TheMuso> I find it hard to think of any, as we all seem to work well with each other.
<dholbach> yeah, we're all quite focussed on "getting work done"
<sistpoty> yep... this was basically a leftover from the first try... should we drop it?
<ajmitch> I think it'd be more for where there's real disagreement on how to get something done
<TheMuso> ajmitch: SOunds good.
<dholbach> sistpoty: I'd keep it - I think it's a good thing there's somebody responsible for mediating between groups if it comes to disagreements
<TheMuso> Pitty there aren't more of us here.
<dholbach> we should blog more about MOTU :-)
<sistpoty> hehe
* ajmitch just got blogged about
<ajmitch> not pointing any fingers or anything
<TheMuso> ajmitch: ??
<sistpoty> dholbach: ah... mediating was apparently the wording I was really looking for here :)
* ajmitch points a finger at Burgundavia 
<geser> LaserJock started with interviews of MOTUs
<TheMuso> Ah.
<Burgundavia> I will chase down the Behind Ubuntu people
<Burgundavia> and get them to do more interviews
<Burgundavia> and then I will chase all you down for interviews :)
* ajmitch was going to do an interview with them at one point
<ajmitch> but they probably won't want that again :)
<sistpoty> ok, let's get back to the charter... is there something obvious missing?
<ajmitch> not that I could see
<TheMuso> Me neither.
<dholbach> it'd be nice to integrate ajmitch's summary somehow
<dholbach> but apart from that it's fine
<ajmitch> summary from MC meeting?
<TheMuso> But since there are only a few of us here, what do you say we put a final call to the ml? I don't like the fact that not everybody is getting a chance to have a say.
<ajmitch> TheMuso: I thought there'd be a *few* more people here
<TheMuso> ajmitch: My point exactly.
<ajmitch> like Hobbsee
<sistpoty> TheMuso: good idea
* Phoenix24 is here!
* ajmitch is ready to go & sleep already
<TheMuso> heh
<sistpoty> dholbach: I'd also like to see the summary in the actual charter, but I've only managed to transform it into a foreword somehow :(
<sistpoty> <- no brainer ;)
* dholbach hugs sistpoty
<dholbach> sistpoty: will you mail the list about it?
<sistpoty> ok, I will
<dholbach> super
<dholbach> any other business before we move on to fixed items?
<sistpoty> is the TODO list up to date?
<TheMuso> Yeah I have something I just want to ask about
<dholbach> I tagged quite a bunch of bugs and filed the unmetdeps bugs
<dholbach> and there's been quite some activity on fixing bugs
* sistpoty hugs dholbach
* ajmitch did try & help with unmet deps :(
<dholbach> TheMuso: fire away
* dholbach hugs ajmitch
<gpocentek> (morning MOTUs)
<TheMuso> Since we are getting/want to get more people on board, I am wondering whether we should consider putting something in place for merging at the begiinning of a release, like what we have had previously.
<sistpoty> hi gpocentek
<ajmitch> hey gpocentek
<ajmitch> TheMuso: like the merge web tool?
<TheMuso> ajmitch: To indicate who is doing what. The more people we have, the harder it will be to determine who has got what merge.
<ajmitch> which is exactly what that did
<ajmitch> basically stating that you had a lock on that package
<TheMuso> I believe some people in this cycle filed bugs etc, but that wasn't manditory if I remember correctly.
<TheMuso> ajmitch: Ah I don't really remember seeing that anywhere.
<TheMuso> I may have been out of the loop at the time.
<ajmitch> it was very useful, used malone bugs to track it
<ajmitch> I think we used it for dapper?
<sistpoty> yes, sounds like a good idea to me, as I think the merges for feisty stagnated at some point because too few people touched other people's merges
<ajmitch> sistpoty coded it :)
* sistpoty hides
<TheMuso> ajmitch: Got an URL that we can give newcomers? And can the bot be updated with info about merging perhaps?
<ajmitch> no, it was disabled since then
<ajmitch> iirc
<ajmitch> bot can be updated
<sistpoty> yep, it's disabled (and a little bit broken atm)
<TheMuso> sistpoty: Yeah, and the more of us there are, the messier it could be.
<ajmitch> code would need revived & freshened
<TheMuso> If we don't have something like that.
<sistpoty> I guess I could set it up pretty quickly again, but the bug parser really should be redone (there was no x-launchpad thingy in bug mails at the beginning *g*)
<ajmitch> should be a trivial task ;)
<TheMuso> sistpoty: I am sure some of us would be happy to help you get it back up again.
<TheMuso> But I think it should be ready before the new release cycle starts.
<ajmitch> code is at http://tiber.tauware.de/~sistpoty/mergeWebTool/ in a bzr branch I think
<sistpoty> that would be great... because it has had some issues at the past, where I'd have to manually fix things, and it would also be a great help if I there were more people who could then fix things ;)
* ajmitch branches it
<sistpoty> and I must admit that I don't have much of a clue about the packages thingy I stole from ajmitch :P
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> which thing was that?
* TheMuso also branches.
<sistpoty> ajmitch: it imported package versions from unstable into the database
<ajmitch> ah
<dholbach> with the use of tags it should be quite easy
<ajmitch> ah yes, I see that code now
<ajmitch> shameful ;)
<sistpoty> hehe
<dholbach> one could use python-launchpad-bugs for the launchpad end
<sistpoty> dholbach: to file merge bugs? or for s.th. else?
<ajmitch> sistpoty: I made it about 100x faster by using britney code
<sistpoty> :)
<TheMuso> Ok this python is a little beyond me. :)
<ajmitch> which is what I use each night for the RC bugs list
<dholbach> sistpoty: to get an overview over which bugs are filed, who filed them, etc etc
<sistpoty> ah...
<ajmitch> dholbach: instead of mail?
<TheMuso> And I think a few of us have wishes that MOM had a comments field for packages. Should we pursue that with Scott?
<dholbach> ajmitch: yeah, why not? I don't insist on it - was just an idea
<ajmitch> either that or scrape the pages & add in annotatoin :)
* ajmitch was going to add a comments field to his rc bugs list
<Mithrandir> TheMuso: no, ask doko or me for MOM stuff now.
<sistpoty> oh, we need also some script to actually file bugs... iirc the script from \sh: we had back then broke somewhen due to lp changing
<TheMuso> Mithrandir: Oh ok.
<ajmitch> Mithrandir: excellent :)
* ajmitch bribes Mithrandir 
<TheMuso> haha
<ajmitch> sistpoty: just hack requestsync
<sistpoty> good idea :)
<ajmitch> though it can't tag by email yet
<dholbach> python-launchpad-bugs can tag
<ajmitch> useful
<dholbach> http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/scripts/retag.py
<TheMuso> Did we not have a package in universe that had useful MOTU tools at some stage?
<dholbach> yeah, we should pursue that
<dholbach> I'm sure everybody of us has nifty small tools that make life easier
* ajmitch has a whole pile
<TheMuso> Mostly tools others have written, but yeah.
<sistpoty> how about starting a bzr-repo to collect useful scripts?
<dholbach> who creates a motutools product in launchpad so we can have a bzr branch for that?
<dholbach> branches
<TheMuso> I can if people would like.
<dholbach> great
<sistpoty> :)
* ajmitch thought we already had something somewhere
<ajmitch> I know I had some of my stuff in a branch on tiber
<dholbach> good to have it in LP
<sistpoty> I guess the "something somewhere" is part of the problem ;)
<TheMuso> Ok I'll do that after the meeting.
<ajmitch> ;)
<dholbach> ok... anything else?
<TheMuso> And annouce to the ML.
<dholbach> TheMuso: thanks a lot
* ajmitch will have to spend weeks cleaning up scripts before they can be useful for others
<sistpoty> next motu meeting time? 2 weeks from now?
<TheMuso> ajmitch: COmmit them, and we can do it together. :)
<dholbach> sistpoty: same time? later?
* TheMuso thinks about two weeks away.
<TheMuso> Yeah I can do that.
<sistpoty> dholbach: maybe we should rotate times?
<ajmitch> 2 weeks from now is just after Easter
<TheMuso> I am happy to rotate.
<sistpoty> (in case there won't be a conflict)
<TheMuso> ajmitch: True.
<ajmitch> rotating may be good, given how few people showed up here
<TheMuso> I'll probably be catching up with a weekend's worth of email
<TheMuso> After being away. :)
<sistpoty> apr, 10 is tb meeting at 20.00utc, so we can't rotate to *that* time
<sistpoty> (unless I can't count weeks now, like last meeting *g*)
<dholbach> 18:00 utc then?
<sistpoty> ok with me
<dholbach> so we get the americans too
<TheMuso> Um, if you want an aussie, I can't do that.
<ajmitch> you can have a kiwi, as long as you supply the caffeine IV drip
<TheMuso> ajmitch: hehe
<ajmitch> (6AM for me)
<ajmitch> 4AM for TheMuso & others in that area
<dholbach> wed 20:00 utc?
<TheMuso> Yeah thats fine.
<ajmitch> ok
<sistpoty> yep
<TheMuso> I don't think it has to be two weeks exactly.
<ajmitch> I think :)
* ajmitch is meant to be at work at 20:30UTC
<dholbach> hang on
<dholbach> there's edubuntu meeting
<highvoltage> somoene said edubuntu meeting?
<TheMuso> I think us down under will have to face the fact that we can't make all meetings.
<dholbach> apr 11th
<highvoltage> ah scheduling... (/me moves on)
<sistpoty> mon 9 apr still contains no schedules *g*
* TheMuso throws hands in the air. If I miss it, I miss it. No big deal.
<dholbach> sistpoty: isn't that when easter still is?
<TheMuso> We can't please everybody.
<Hobbsee> ooh strike, the meeting!  just when i went afk for a while!
<sistpoty> dholbach: right
* dholbach hugs Hobbsee
<sistpoty> now that explains why the slot is still empty *g*
* Hobbsee hugs dholbach 
* sistpoty shrugs about meeting times then
* Hobbsee quickly reads the backscroll
<dholbach> apr, 12th 20:00 utc then
<ajmitch> Hobbsee!!
<ajmitch> dholbach: alright ;)
<dholbach> we have to make it a quick one, as the distro team meets one hour after that
<sistpoty> dholbach: ubuntu dev team meeting
<sistpoty> ah, right
<dholbach> but given that we're short before release, there's not much to discuss anyway
<ajmitch> april 12th, 20:00UTC will do
<TheMuso> Yep sounds good.
<dholbach> don't talk - fix bugs :)
<ajmitch> ooh, friday 13th!
<sistpoty> anyone unhappy with 12th, 20:00UTC?
<ajmitch> nope :)
<sistpoty> 3
<sistpoty> 2
<sistpoty> 1
<sistpoty> set
<sistpoty> :)
<ajmitch> yay!
<TheMuso> haha
<dholbach> rock
<Hobbsee> ajmitch!!!
<dholbach> next universe hug day?
* ajmitch hugs dholbach 
<Hobbsee> sistpoty: i am.  grah.
* ajmitch hugs Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> oh, i wont even make that, most likely
<Hobbsee> but that's OK
<sistpoty> hm... once again, /me was too quick
<Hobbsee> that whole merging thing with comments would help
<Hobbsee> but i never sued the dapper merging thing
<ajmitch> I'd hope not
<ajmitch> you weren't as involved back then though
<TheMuso> ROFL
<TheMuso> Sorry, I took that the wrong way.
<ajmitch> my poor DSL line at home... ;)
<dholbach> when is the next universe hug day?
<dholbach> do you find it useful?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: true
<Hobbsee> s/sued/used/
<ajmitch> dholbach: friday?
<TheMuso> I haven't been round for the last couple, so can't say.
* ajmitch hasn't really been involved in the hug day stuff
* sistpoty doesn't have too much spare time for fixing bugs atm
<dholbach> ajmitch: sounds good to me
<dholbach> i'll write an announce
<sistpoty> but I guess the hug days have been pretty good, weren't they?
<TheMuso> Friday sounds good.
* ajmitch has been doing some hacking on stuff for feisty+1 (sorry)
* Hobbsee doesnt have time at the moment - kde stuff is my focus
<ajmitch> as well as fixes for my code for feisty
<dholbach> thanks a lot everybody - I think we're all set with the meeting, right?
* sistpoty is
<TheMuso> Yep.
<TheMuso> I'll go grab some dinner, and will do the meetings/create motutools product.
<dholbach> TheMuso: you rock
<ajmitch> thanks!
<sistpoty> thanks everyone!
<ajmitch> dholbach: yep, meeting finished, etc :)
<ajmitch> sistpoty can return to sleep
<TheMuso> Ok, thanks all.
<sistpoty> haha
<dholbach> thanks all
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 28 Mar 22:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 29 Mar 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Apr 20:00 UTC: Marketing Team | 02 Apr 15:00 UTC: Community question time
<deep> j #ubuntu-motu
<deep> sry.
<Phoenix24> @motu
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Technical Board | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 28 Mar 22:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 29 Mar 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Apr 20:00 UTC: Marketing Team | 02 Apr 15:00 UTC: Community question time
<Keybuk> looking at the agenda, this should be nice and quick :)
<mjg59> Indeed
<mjg59> We expecing mdz or Mark?
<Keybuk> I was talking to mdz only a few minutes ago
<Keybuk> so I'd expect so
<mdz> evening all
<mjg59> Evening
<Keybuk> ok, so let's get started
<mdz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<mdz> (hmm, need to update that template for the new motu process)
<mdz> I'm not aware of any core-dev applicants today, are you?
<mjg59> Nope
<Keybuk> none that I'm aware of
<mdz> there is one motu application pending confirmation
<mdz> Lionel Le Folgoc
<mdz> I haven't reviewed it yet
<mdz> just received today
<Keybuk> I had reviewed it, and was happy
<mdz> ok, your ack is sufficient to effect the change in LP
<Keybuk> done
<Keybuk> (when beta does it)
<mjg59> I concour, for the record
<mdz> Keybuk: will you also send a welcome to -devel?
<Keybuk> do we have a template for that?
<Keybuk> ah, I see dholbach has one
<mdz> Keybuk: you can use the last one I sent as a template
<mdz> and maybe put it into a wiki somewhere
<Keybuk> yup
<mdz> thanks
<mdz> is there any other business?
<mdz> short and sweet
<mdz> thanks all
<Keybuk> thanks
<Daviey> @schedule london
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/London: Current meeting: Technical Board | 28 Mar 21:00: Edubuntu | 28 Mar 23:00: Xubuntu | 29 Mar 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Apr 21:00: Marketing Team | 02 Apr 16:00: Community question time
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-03-28
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 28 Mar 22:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 29 Mar 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Apr 20:00 UTC: Marketing Team | 02 Apr 15:00 UTC: Community question time | 03 Apr 11:00 UTC: Community Council
<sid>  @schedule New_York
<sid> !test
<ubotu> Failed.
<sid> @schedule New_York
<ubotu> Schedule for America/New_York: 28 Mar 16:00: Edubuntu | 28 Mar 18:00: Xubuntu | 29 Mar 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Apr 16:00: Marketing Team | 02 Apr 11:00: Community question time | 03 Apr 07:00: Community Council
<sid> ahh, I had a space. :/
<shawarma> @schedule copenhagen
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Copenhagen: 28 Mar 22:00: Edubuntu | 29 Mar 00:00: Xubuntu | 29 Mar 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Apr 22:00: Marketing Team | 02 Apr 17:00: Community question time | 03 Apr 13:00: Community Council
<BFTD> @schedule los_angeles
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Los_Angeles: 28 Mar 13:00: Edubuntu | 28 Mar 15:00: Xubuntu | 29 Mar 14:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Apr 13:00: Marketing Team | 02 Apr 08:00: Community question time | 03 Apr 04:00: Community Council
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 28 Mar 22:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 29 Mar 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Apr 20:00 UTC: Marketing Team | 02 Apr 15:00 UTC: Community question time | 03 Apr 11:00 UTC: Community Council
* sbalneav sticks up hand
<sbalneav> Present, Mr. Grawert
<ogra> great
<ajmitch> yay
<ajmitch> hi ogra
<Burgwork> greetings
<ogra> so from a tech POV ...
<ogra> we got the beta out of the door :)
<ajmitch> yay
<sbalneav> \o/ for Ollie
<ogra> there are some bugs with the docs and the artwork ....
<pips1> namely?
<sbalneav> Do tel
<sbalneav> ;
<ogra> i'm currently working through the artwork stuff ... and kudos to LaserJock who does the docs
<pips1> missing icons for GDM
<ogra> and to sbalneav indeed for fixing the ltsp documents
* ajmitch is working on tech stuff for feisty+1
<ogra> pips1, and wrong vendor logo
<sbalneav> Meh, did my bit.
<pips1> \o/ for sbalneav and LaserJock
<ogra> the handbook stuff looks pretty neat
<ogra> sadly somehow the patch for yelp to fix the TOC didnt make it in or got lost
<sbalneav> I did a whole whack of re-org too, to make it (what I thought) was a bit more sane.
<ogra> currently there is no trace of the handbook in yelp if you dont search for ltsp or edubuntu
<pips1> so where do I find the ltsp documentation on my feisty box?
<ogra> anyway, thats for the doc section
<pips1> right
<ogra> open yelp and search for ltsp
<ogra> we need to advertise the addon CD a bit i think
<ogra> sbalneav, already did an awesome blogpost about that ;)
<sbalneav> How much more time do we have on adding things to the manual?
<ogra> apart from that i have some small ltsp bugs on my list, and a dia upgrade is waiting
<ogra> trying to get the ltsp list empty beyond the whishlist bugs
<ogra> sbalneav, herd6 is scheduled for 5th
<ogra> so with 3-4 days of pre-herd freeze the 2nd or 3rd should be the date of last changes
<sbalneav> ok, so if I set aside 6 hours this weekend to add/expand a few more things, we'll get it in?
<sbalneav> Done.
<ogra> i think so
<sbalneav> Perfect.
<pips1> go sbalneav go!
<pips1> :)
<ogra> yay
<ogra> \o/
<ogra> next meeting i'D like to start collecting spec suggestions for UDS
<sbalneav> Well, what with my huge thing at work, I didn't get ANY time to work on LTSP stuff this time around, but I can at least claim to have improved the manual somewhat, so I don't feel quite as guilty.
<ogra> i already have a good list for ltsp suff and lots leftovers from feisty as well
<sbalneav> LDAP
<ogra> but we should also look at new things
* ajmitch has been busy hacking & getting information for new/updated specs
<ajmitch> sbalneav: and I thought you didn't want it ;)
<ogra> for ldap i'D really see pam improved first but i think ajmitch is already fixing a lot in that area
<LaserJock> sorry, lunch
<ogra> hey LaserJock
<ajmitch> hey LaserJock
<sbalneav> heh, said I didn't LIKE ldap, not that I didn't want it.  We NEED it.  It's just not an easy service to deal with :)
<ogra> who is lunch ? do i know her ?
<ajmitch> sbalneav: then lets make it easy
<sbalneav> heh, I like your gumption.
<ogra> what ltsp needs is an ldm overhaul and new speed profiling the last time we did that was in dapper and ltsp is grown big enough to focus on speed again
<sbalneav> yes.
<ogra> so i'd like to put focus on these two
<ogra> apart from network auth for which we hopefuly can inherit most parts from ubuntu
<sbalneav> As well, I should have something to demo for a combined LDM/XDMCP localdev communications channel by then, so for low end boxes that need to use XDMCP, localdev will work the same way.
<sbalneav> ogra: add i18n for LDM to the list
<sbalneav> SOmeone last night was asking about -zh support for LDM
<ogra> sbalneav, thats on my list since ages :P
<ogra> i want to redo the gui completely
<pips1> so the ubuntu network-auth is making progress, then?
<ogra> including transalatability
<sbalneav> I'd love to learn.  Being an ignorant North American, I have no clue how to deal with anything other than ASCII and English, but I WANT to learn.
<ogra> pips1, nt more than usual ...
<LaserJock> +1
<ogra> pips1, but given that it advances in this speed since several releases it seems to get somewhere ;)
<ogra> just takes time
<pips1> right
<pips1> ogra, I did a little bit of testing, maybe we can briefly chat after meeting - just to check before I start filing bugs in the tracker
* LaserJock kicks ajmitch ;-)
<ajmitch> pips1: what network auth stuff are you referring to?
* ajmitch goes & finds a rock to crawl under
<LaserJock> I've got one, we can share
<ogra> yay we're united again ...
<pips1> what's up with freenode?
<ajmitch> gar
<sbalneav> netsplit
<ogra> so for tech i'm done ... everybody please test the isos
* ajmitch missed the last 5 minutes due to fleenode
<pips1> hehe
<ogra> oh, on a sidenote, RichEd wont be able to make it today
<ajmitch> pips1: so if you said anything to me in reply, I didn't see it :)
<LaserJock> do we have a Rodrigo replacement yet?
<ogra> no
* pips1 is also curious about that
<ogra> we have two applications so far
<pips1> :-/
<pips1> ah
<ogra> simply because we had no time for interviews yet
<ogra> rich just came back on monday
<LaserJock> busy busy people
<LaserJock> sometimes I think you guys do more travelling that work :/
* ajmitch wouldn't be so silly as to apply
<ogra> we want to have a plan ready this wek
<LaserJock> s/that/than/
<LaserJock> ogra: plan for what?
<ogra> well i didnt do much travelling since italy
<Burgwork> rodrigo replacement?
* pips1 pokes at ajmitch
<ajmitch> pips1: what?
<ogra> how we'll go on with the intervewing
<ogra> LaserJock, ^^
<LaserJock> ah
* pips1 wanted to say pokes fun at ajmitch
<ajmitch> pips1: ah, I'm used to that
<ogra> Burgwork, rodrigo resigned in feb.
<ogra> gone since march 1st
<pips1> :-(
<pips1> I hope he's alright. but it a bit of a blow
<ajmitch> & ogra hasn't slept a full night since
<Burgwork> ah
<ogra> ajmitch, luckily thats not true
<Burgwork> what did rodrigo do?
<pips1> X
<pips1> ?
<ogra> Burgwork, for edubuntu ?
<ajmitch> ogra: oh good, I thought you've been too busy with work, being shorthanded
<Burgwork> ya
<ogra> nothing ... he was mostly working on X
<Burgwork> oh, right
<pips1> packaging Moodle
<pips1> ?
<ajmitch> which is probably why having him leave didn't change much for your workload
<ogra> pips1, if so, then without delivering it
<pips1> arggg
<ogra> i'm working on an 1.7 package atm
<LaserJock> for Feisty?
<pips1> nice
<ogra> for feisty+1 ...
<LaserJock> ok
<ogra> i doubt i'll have solved the "mysql passwords are ugly in postinst" for feisty
<ajmitch> using custom postinst scripts?
<ogra> else i'D hurry up to get it into feisty
<Burgwork> ajmitch: and I were looking at creating a spec to decide on a web-interface for ldap
<ogra> Burgwork, for what ? you will need a webserver for such stuff
<Burgwork> for admining the ldap server
<ogra> and i wont ship one in edubuntu if i dont need to
<sbalneav> ogra: The last time I did a full install, NetworkMangler was hozing the static interface that ltsp-build-client set up.  Has this been fixed yet?
* ajmitch would use the relevant FDS tools where possible
<pips1> ogra, what web services are currently running out of the box on edubuntu?
<ogra> sbalneav, nope, but Mithrandir promised me a fix
<ogra> sbalneav, esle i'll just rip out NM
<sbalneav> Well, he saved Middle Earth.  Lets hope he saves us :)
<ogra> pips1, none in feisty
<pips1> ogra, what about Schooltool?
<ajmitch> horribly broken with zope 3
<ogra> pips1, broken in feisty, no fixes in sight ... thus dropped
<ajmitch> (iirc)
<pips1> oh wow
<ogra> we'll pull it ibn again once it works with zope3
<ajmitch> zope 3 is not an entirely stable API
<ogra> they plan a zope3 based release for end of the yeatr
<ogra> likely in time for feisty+1
<ajmitch> neither is zope2, but changes have slowed down a lot there
<ogra> until then it needs to stay in universe
<pips1> ic
<LaserJock> where are we in the agenda? Tech?
<ogra> tech doc ... which we wanted to merge in the general doc section ... so Art Work then
<pips1> no, we are at 'lost in space' ;-)
* ajmitch is getting breakfast
<ogra> anything about artwork ...
<ogra> critics about what we ship ?
<ogra> suggestions, submissions ?
<LaserJock> seems fine to me
<sbalneav> I, for one, welcome our new artwork (masters)
<LaserJock> but I like just about everything
<sbalneav> Think it looks good.
<ogra> i wanted it to not move away to much from the edgy artwork ...
<ogra> but to be a bit calmer
<ogra> s people actually keep it :P
<LaserJock> yeah, makes sense
<ogra> *so
<pips1> thumbs up
<LaserJock> I actually used the Edgy default wallpaper for a while
<ogra> edgy was pretty bright and saturated ...
<ogra> i used it until beta :)
<ogra> i always use our artwork for the whole release
<LaserJock> as if the lasers weren't enough to burn out my eyes ;-)
<ogra> heh
<ogra> any other artwork matters ?
<ogra> cbx33 seems not to be around ...
<ogra> ok
<pips1> I like the "young" wallpaper, but the blue is a bit of a color scheme shock
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> well, lisa made lots and lots of blue ones
<ogra> actually the one we use now was lue initially as well
<ogra> *blue
<sbalneav> I really like the garnome icon theme.
<ogra> not sure if she wants to change the blue of the young one ... according to cbx33 she's a bit unhappy we dont ship all of her pics she made
<ogra> yeah, but garnome starts to get old ... we should see that we contact upstream to get updates for new icons we need
<ogra> but actually we talk about gartoon *g*
<Burgwork> apparently jimmac is working on a gartoon referesh
<ogra> jimmac ?
<ogra> what has he to do with gartoon ? thats nice news
<pips1> \o/
<ogra> Burgwork, are yu sure he isnt doing gorilla instead ?
<ogra> anyway, Community & Documentation & Web
<ogra> ... and Technical Documentation
<pips1> erm, hold on
<pips1> just a quick question for artwork
<ogra> pips1, other artworjk stuff ?
<ogra> shoot
<pips1> why didn't we ship all of the wallpapers of Aliasvegas?
<ogra> because that bloats the artwork package and i didnt now early eough she expects them all to be in else i'd have made an -extras package
<ogra> *know
<pips1> hmm.
<ogra> cbx33 told me about it on beta freeze day
<pips1> I thought there would be at least three: young, default and academic, or smth?
<ogra> default young and plain
<ogra> plain has no wallpaper, only a color
<ogra> i'm fine if someone wants to pacjk up an -extra package for universe but i currently dnt have time for that
<ogra> i'll be a happy upload bitch though
<ogra> more art ?
<ogra> ok
<LaserJock> Pete and I can upload to Universe as well
<ogra> Community & Documentation & Web
<ogra> ... and Technical Documentation
<ogra> LaserJock, has pete finally got his key signed ?
<LaserJock> well, I(ogra) uploaded edubuntu-docs 0.6-1
<LaserJock> ogra: oh yeah, I'm not sure if he has or not
<LaserJock> I'll whip him into it
<ogra> well, then he still cant ...
<ogra> yeah edubuntu-docs is uploaded and on the CD ...
<ogra> and recived a pre-final overhaul right before the meeting
<pips1> will it be indexed in yelp ?
<LaserJock> it seems I've kinda taken over edubuntu-docs for now
<ogra> depends on mdke i heard
<pips1> LaserJock: how so?
<LaserJock> pips1: yes, it was supposed to be but when I tried it yesterday it wasn't
<pips1> what's up with will?
<ogra> pips1, well, he packaged it and somehow takes care for it :)
<LaserJock> well, nixternal was doing most of it but he's really the only person doing the Kubuntu docs
<LaserJock> so he's been very busy with that
<pips1> ic
<LaserJock> and doesn't need to be taking care of 2 distros worth of docs
<ogra> will was in hospital, seems he brought anything from his last trip
<ogra> but he should be fine soon, i heard he's home again
<LaserJock> and I'm a MOTU so I could upload to Universe
<LaserJock> so ...
<LaserJock> I was able to get .pots and an About Edubuntu menu item in the System menu
* pips1 was really just wondering why will hadn't be around, all clear now :)
<LaserJock> so carlos was going to put through the .pots sometime today so people can start translating
<ogra> pips1, i think he'll be back next meeting
<LaserJock> good to hear
* ogra starts feeling alone running the meetings since three weeks on his own 
<LaserJock> sorry :(
<ogra> LaserJock, i meant from the canonical side of things :)
<ogra> but thats how business is ...
<ogra> any other doc stuff ?
<LaserJock> we really need to have the docs proofread
<ogra> pips1, any website things you want to talk about ?
<LaserJock> for now you can get to them by searching for "edubuntu" or "ltsp" in the yelp search bar
* pips1 has also been starting to feel alone regarding the webstuff, since he hasn't heard back from RichEd
<ogra> i'll poke him tomorrow
<ogra> he just returned from a long trip where he had no network
<pips1> RichEd and me have discussed a lot, but I want to get going now...
<ogra> and i dont want to see his backlog after a week of not getting mail
<sbalneav> Is the yelp thing going to be fixed?
<LaserJock> well, if I can ever get ahold of mdke
<ogra> sbalneav, ask mdke, seems he made the fix that doesnt show up
<LaserJock> I sent him an email yesterday
<LaserJock> but he hasn't responded
<sbalneav> hm, ok
<LaserJock> and I can't find him on IRC lately
<LaserJock> I think he did do the fix
<LaserJock> but I see in the changelog that a lot has been done to that patch
<LaserJock> so I wonder if the change got lost
<ogra> mdke should know
<LaserJock> if I don't hear something soon I'll see if I can fix it myself!
<ogra> we still have some days
<LaserJock> but it's basically adding a couple lines in the yelp code
<ogra> about a bt less than a week i guess ...
<ogra> likely we'll freeze on tuesday
<pips1> question for the planned community site: LaserJock, would you be glad to help out with forum moderation?
<pips1> and ogra, would you be willing to contribute dev news / blogging on the site?
<ogra> phew
<pips1> hehe
<ogra> i cant promise anything ... look at my bloging frequency
<LaserJock> pips1: I think I can, plus I blog a little more often that ogra ;-)
<ogra> and i would have to write a lot, i travel a lot ...
<Burgwork> pips1: community site? a seperate forum from ubuntuforums.org?
<pips1> oki, I'll ask you again when I've got something nice to look at ;-)
<LaserJock> Burgwork: yes
<pips1> Burgwork: yes
<ogra> Burgwork, yup
<Burgwork> ugh
<LaserJock> Burgwork: part of RichEd's master paln
<LaserJock> *plan
<Burgwork> even more ugh
<pips1> LOL
<Burgwork> "lets divide it up even more!"
<Burgwork> anyway, I will chat with Riched later
<pips1> Burgwork: where does the "more" start?
<Burgwork> ubuntu-education vs Edubuntu?
<ogra> no
<ogra> they get merged there
<Burgwork> ahh
<ogra> its rather education vs ubuntu
<LaserJock> where will the forums be?
* somerville32 can understand the desire to be autonomous but can't understand the need for a separate forum.
<ogra> likely on the drupal server i guess
<Burgwork> somerville32: back from the dead!
* somerville32 is in a hospital bathroom stealing wifi.
<pips1> yep
<ogra> heh
<Burgwork> I can see another website, but another forum is crazy
<LaserJock> somerville32: the idea is that it's not really so much for computer/techy stuff, but education
<pips1> ^^^ yep
<ogra> its a completely different audience and set of topics
<LaserJock> so ubuntuforums.org would get a bunch of non-technical stuff
<somerville32> Can't the ubuntuforum facilitate that?
<LaserJock> and the edu people would get overloaded with tech-speak
<Burgwork> so? they are all using ubuntu
<ogra> rchs plan is to really have teachers helping teachers about teaching methods etc
<ogra> Burgwork, *buntu
<somerville32> Interesting
<cliebow> technology integration is the catchword
<Burgwork> ogra: right, I mean Ubuntu in the project sense, not the distro sens
<ogra> its not really ubuntu centric
<LaserJock> basically *buntu is sponsoring an Education forum
<ogra> but rather "what do i do with the tools i got" from a techer perspective
<cliebow> and collaboration..ala zimbra/firstclass
<ogra> well it will surely also be about edu software
<ogra> right
<LaserJock> but it could even have Windows and OS X FLOSS software, I think
<ogra> so anybuntu will be involved
<LaserJock> I think FLOSS in Education is the basic topic
<ogra> righ
<ogra> t
* pips1 is glad LaserJock and ogra do all the explanation :)
<ogra> with a side track for edubuntu or ubuntu users where needed ...
<pips1> shows that we're on the same page :)
<ogra> or kubuntu ... or anybuntu :)
<LaserJock> well, after arguing with RichEd and pips1 for a few hours, I think I got the argument down fairly well
<ogra> any oter stuff for the topic ?
<cliebow> we are  losing momentum here without something like carnegie algebra/lexialearning/Plato
<ogra> or are we done with docs and friends ?
<ogra> wel, part of the plan seems to also be content creation and sharing
<ogra> which is similar to the edulinux project we're involved in
<ogra> for which we had a status meeting this week ... in case someone is intrested ...
* pips1 checks out lexialearning
<pips1> so what is the status?
<pips1> I'm interested
<ogra> well we all make good prgress :P
<LaserJock> is there a website for it?
<pips1> what are the other project members putting in?
<ogra> the central project moodle server has to be purchased soon and i'll get the lessons from te participants
<ogra> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edulinux
<cliebow> lexia is a bunch of like shockwave reading exercises.of increasing complexity..with a substantial recording backend
<pips1> cliebow: interesting
<ogra> that remonds me
<ogra> *reminds as well :)
<ogra> there are a ton of edubuntu SoC suggestions on the google Soc page
<ogra> we dont seem to hae enough mentors yet
<ogra> *have
* ajmitch wouldn't qualify as a mentor :)
<cliebow> i even got funding for servers in each of the six satellite schools i tend..but couldnt get lexia per se to run in wine eor crosssover..all i could do to keep them from washing linux and putting ugh on them
<sbalneav> For the edulinux project, do they have the server yet?
<ogra> so in case anyone is intrested in mentoring have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GoogleSoC2007
<ogra> sbalneav, i buy the server
<ogra> and no, its not existing yet
<ogra> there are tons of restrictions what to buy where
<sbalneav> Who's paying for the server?  You looking for donations?
<ogra> its sponsored by the EU, so i'm only allowed to buy in certain places
<ogra> no, EU donates everything
<sbalneav> Oh, so they're fronting the money?  I was going to say, I'd gladly donate 200 euros to the cause.
<ogra> but i'm for example not allowed to order at dell USA :)
<ogra> nah, not needed here ...
<sbalneav> OK, more money for beer at UDS :)
<ogra> money isnt much but its not the issue ...
<pips1> sbalneav: hehe
<ogra> doing the buerocracy is the hard part :)
<somerville32> @schedule atlantic
<ubotu> Schedule for Canada/Atlantic: Current meeting: Edubuntu | 28 Mar 19:00: Xubuntu | 29 Mar 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Apr 17:00: Marketing Team | 02 Apr 12:00: Community question time | 03 Apr 08:00: Community Council
<ogra> anyway, its in progress ... we'll meet up in sweden in summer to merge the content into the main server and to have the different participants presenting their content
<pips1> ogra, did you hand out edubuntu cds to the edulinex project members? was there a presentation of sorts?
<ogra> sure i did that one year and a half ago at the first meeting as well as in poland :)
<pips1> or is it more focussed around publishing edu content with moodle?
<ogra> in italy riched and me had a talk at a barcamp
<ogra> so we didt do an extra one
<ogra> *didnt
<ogra> its about creating a distance learning system which incudes content, methods and technology
<ogra> edubuntu/canonical will provide for the tech stuff ... i.e. a moodle standalone install CD based on edubuntu
<ogra> packaging content so it can easily get installed
<ogra> etc etc
<pips1> I hope you get some dev reinforcement soon
<ogra> well i get free hardware and my monthly loan ...
<ogra> what more could i want :)
<pips1> a full time dev? :-)
<ogra> oh, you mean for the rodrigo position
<pips1> yep
<ogra> sure, we have awesome applicants :)
<pips1> good to hear
<ogra> ok
<ogra> any other stuff we didnt cover ?
<ogra> any questions ?
<ogra> any any ?
<LaserJock> SoC
<ogra> going once ...
<ogra> SoC
<sbalneav> Why do the birds go on singing?
<sbalneav> Why does the sea rush to shore?
<LaserJock> is there going to be any coordination of SoC mentoring/projects
<ogra> sbalneav, /join #ornitholigist
<LaserJock> lol
<ogra> sbalneav, /join #sailorboy
<ogra> *g*
<sbalneav> More like #oldsongs
<ogra> LaserJock, Keybuk and doo do them
<ogra> *doko
<sbalneav> "Don't they know, it's the end of the world?  It ended when you said, goodbye"
<sbalneav> Everybody now...
<ogra> i havent talked to rich yet if we will handle edu spcifically
<pips1> sbalneav: LOL
<LaserJock> ogra: right, I just wondered with so many Edu related projects if we wanted to coordinate at all
<pips1> LaserJock: SoC link?
<LaserJock> I see pete's already got 1 project he wants to mentor
<ogra> LaserJock, i'll clearify with rich this week
<ogra> usually all coordination should be donre through the goodle interface
<LaserJock> pips1: wiki.ubuntu.com/GoogleSoC2007 I think
<ogra> *google indeed
<LaserJock> ogra: ok, thanks.
<LaserJock> I just wondered if there was something in place before I go through all the apps
<sbalneav> OK, I'm going to head home.  I'll be on tonight, testing more isos.
* pips1 's head is buzzing from all the educational related suggestions on SoC
<sbalneav> In yuor base, killing yuor d00dz
<sbalneav> and other memes.
<pips1> bye, sbalneav, happy testing!
<sbalneav> ciao, all
<ogra> ok, lets finish ?
<ogra> going once (again)
<ogra> going twice
<ogra> adjourned
<ogra> thanks all :)
<pips1> cheers
<cliebow> pip pip
<somerville32> :)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:greenflubber] : Ubuntu Meeting
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 28 Mar 22:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 29 Mar 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Apr 20:00 UTC: Marketing Team | 02 Apr 15:00 UTC: Community question time | 03 Apr 11:00 UTC: Community Council
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Xubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 29 Mar 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Apr 20:00 UTC: Marketing Team | 02 Apr 15:00 UTC: Community question time | 03 Apr 11:00 UTC: Community Council
<janimo> hi, anyone here?
<maxamillion> me
<maxamillion> xubuntu meeting
<maxamillion> sorry i am late
<maxamillion> i am at work and its been a reallly long day
<maxamillion> well, before i start the meeting i guess i would like to take attendence and see if there is anyone in fact here for the meeting
<maxamillion> .... that's what i was affraid of
<janimo> maxamillion: anything in particular you are intested in?
<janimo> maxamillion: ah, you;re Adam :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-03-29
<maxamillion> janimo: whoa ... you know my name
* maxamillion marks this as the single most triumphant moment in his open source life
<janimo> no, but the IRC info command is helpful
<janimo> :)
<maxamillion> ah
<ajmitch> hey janimo
* maxamillion erases said mark
<janimo> I have not been on IRC for a while so the nick was unfamiliar
<janimo> ajmitch: hi
<maxamillion> janimo: ah, ok
<maxamillion> janimo: yeah, ever since cody went out of commission i run the meetings whenever i am able (pending my schedule) but it has been some time since I was able to or if there were enough people who showed up to even have a meeting
<janimo> so not having much attendance, I'll touch in the items I have written in the wiki an hour ago
<janimo> all relate to releasing Feisty
<janimo> I think planning Feisty+1 can wait a bit until we have not released
<janimo> they can go in parallel of course, but feisty is priority
<maxamillion> janimo: yeah, it seems that most of the focus in the last week has been on feisty+1 in the mailing list
<janimo> so the main areas that need work are bug triaging and ISO tests
<janimo> the latter seems to be taken care of nicely by Jim
<maxamillion> janimo: i unfortunately haven't had time to be much help in this release cycle because my semester of school has been extremely busy and my 2 jobs take up the rest of my time
<janimo> maxamillion: are you involved with the ISO testing process?
<maxamillion> janimo: i was in the beginning, but not since herd 4 (if i remember correctly)
<janimo> maxamillion: np, we're all in the same situation, it's understandable
<janimo> the other issue is triaging bugs which takes quite some time
<janimo> lately the gnome devs have been helping out
<janimo> but still we could be better organized
<janimo> unfortunately we do not have many active triagers, not even occasional spikes of activity
<maxamillion> janimo: another thing i plan to do when i start getting more spare time is askin crimsun to be my motu mentor because i think if we were able to get a couple motu people in there that are xubuntu members it might help the process and possibly take away from your work load
<janimo> maxamillion: that would help with new apps for sure
<janimo> maxamillion: but most xubuntu stuff is in main, so corre-dev status is needed for upload rights....
<maxamillion> janimo: i check Thunar on launchpad from time to time but i haven't really seen much activity in the past 6-weeks (edgy branch)
<maxamillion> janimo: ohhh, ok
<janimo> maxamillion: edgy is frozen
<maxamillion> janimo: i didn't even think about that
<janimo> maxamillion: we work on feisty and only if it's very critucal do fixes in edgy
<janimo> and it is usually someone else not me
<maxamillion> janimo: i know, it has been for some ... does that mean bugs can't be reported?
<janimo> maxamillion: they can be but chances are high they will not get fixed unless reproducable in feisty
<janimo> we barely have resources for one line of development
<janimo> yes, supporting previous releases would be nice but this is it
<janimo> what is helpful at this stage that as many bugs get fixed before release
<maxamillion> janimo: ah, fair enough ... i just remember the email you sent out a long time ago asking people to volunteer to cross reference launchpad bugs with xfce bugzilla and i volunteered for thunar
<maxamillion> and other things of that nature
<janimo> otherwise we'll get the reports after feisty is out and we'll be in the same situation, not being able to fix them beacause getting fixes in frozen versions is a lot more work
<maxamillion> so i check Thunar on launchpad periodically
<maxamillion> janimo: right right ... fair enough
<maxamillion> janimo: we released beta1 right?
<janimo> maxamillion: yes
<janimo> maxamillion: besides linking to xfce bugzilla, trying to reproduce others' bugs is useful too
<janimo> althoiugh more time consuming
<maxamillion> janimo: ok, well i guess i can download that image today at work and try to find the time to install it on a spare machine around the office and just kinda run tests here and there and do some bug triaging
<janimo> maxamillion: in general contributions relating to packaging and bugs are better done on the release we're working on :)
<janimo> so the work has a chance of being useful :)
<janimo> more useful I mean
<maxamillion> janimo: right, http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/ <--that's the beta1 right?
<janimo> that is the daily but pick that over beta
<janimo> it's better to use the latest
<maxamillion> hi j1mc
<j1mc> hello all
<janimo> hi Jim
<j1mc> :)
<j1mc> what have i missed?
<j1mc> or, what are we talking about now?
<maxamillion> janimo: ok, well then i will download that image right now and try to get it on a spare machine and do some triage on it if i get any time here at work .... i just don't have the spare hardware at home and can't afford downtime of my desktop at home because of school work
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Xubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 29 Mar 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Apr 20:00 UTC: Marketing Team | 02 Apr 15:00 UTC: Community question time | 03 Apr 11:00 UTC: Community Council | 03 Apr 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team
<maxamillion> j1mc: just bug tracking and triage for feisty
<maxamillion> j1mc: its just you, janimo and me here ... :/
<j1mc> ok
<janimo> maxamillion: fair enough, although you do not need a downtime
<janimo> do a dist-upgrade and you're set
<j1mc> janimo: what can the testing community do to help you?
<janimo> j1mc: to help _us_ :)
<maxamillion> janimo: well, not downtime but i can't really be worried about bugs when doing school work
<janimo> well, keeping upu the work
<j1mc> janimo: and do you have any other devs helping with with xubuntu?.
<somerville32> tada!
<j1mc> hi cody :)
<maxamillion> somerville32: glad you could make it
<maxamillion> somerville32: janimo is here :)
<janimo> j1mc: Gauvain is helping too, we kind of shared the load during feisty
<janimo> hi cody
<somerville32> Nice to finally meet you Jani :)
<janimo> j1mc: how active is the ISO testing team compared to the other derivatives?
<janimo> somerville32: same here. I hope you're well
<j1mc> i would say that we are maybe 60% of where they are.  getting better, though.
<janimo> we've met though in earlier meeting IIRC
<j1mc> we are now testing in the same ways as the other versions
<janimo> j1mc: is everything done according to the process the other derivs follow?
<j1mc> and i'm in regular contact with the other test leads.
<janimo> I am not familiar with it, I just know it involves the wiki and LP
<j1mc> janimo: yes.  that process is under revision, though.
<j1mc> janimo: have you seen the test tracker on LP?
<janimo> j1mc: did the alternate CD get tested in the shrt period that it got under 700M ?
<j1mc> we just closed all of the beta bugs, but i'll let you know when we have new "bugs" back up.
<janimo> j1mc: yes, I was subscribed to the xubnutu bgs, but they got cancelled and di not reattach to the new ones
<j1mc> janimo: iirc, yes.  we were testing daily, if not more than that during the final crunch.
* pochu thinks j1mc is doing a great work with the xubuntu iso testing :-)
<janimo> somerville32: we're discussing feisty plans, not feisty+1 as the former is more urgent
* janimo thinks that too
<j1mc> ok, well, please keep me in mind during your testing periods, and let me know if there is anything in particular that you want tested extra well.
<janimo> j1mc: do we have alist of particluar tasks users should test?
<somerville32> janimo: Agreed. :)
<janimo> for instance set up a printer, stick in a USB key?
<janimo> j1mc: or are they mostly concerned with the install process?
<j1mc> janimo: we have a short test, and a long test.  i think printing is on the long test.
<janimo> got a link?
<somerville32> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing I think
<j1mc> yes, just a moment . . .
<janimo> I may add some things which should be tested but were forgotten
<janimo> specifically xubunt upatches to xfce which get a narrower covering
<janimo> somerville32: thanks
* somerville32 nods.
<j1mc> janimo: feel free to refine that test based on your needs.
<j1mc> or "refine those tests"
<janimo> maxamillion: does the website have pointers to the ISO testing process for beta and daily users?
<maxamillion> has anyone checked their email and saw that script emailed from jell?
<janimo> it would be helpful to have it prominently
<somerville32> janimo: They are linked from the announcements, I believe.
<maxamillion> janimo: i believe it does in the last herd announcement, let me double check
<somerville32> maxamillion, I didn't look at the script but I saw the e-mail.
<maxamillion> somerville32: yeah, apparently its intense .... i'm a little worried about running it on my personal machine
* j1mc has lag probs.  :(
<maxamillion> j1mc: i sorry
<j1mc> hehe
<j1mc> janimo: i'll send you an email with all of the necessary links and info.  it would be good to get your input, as this is being done to help the devs.
<j1mc> well, being done to help all of us, :)  but . . .
<j1mc> primarily to help the devs help make things better.  :)
<somerville32> :D
<janimo> j1mc: the long test is very close to the ubuntu one, I guess it could use some xfce specific info
<janimo> j1mc: thanks :)
<maxamillion> janimo: http://www.xubuntu.org/news/feisty_beta <---that is the page (pardon our horrible css, it will be fixed soon)
<j1mc> yw!
<somerville32> Awesome.
<j1mc> one las thing.  the general test team isn't sure what we're going to do during the break between feisty and feisty +1.
<j1mc> we will likely crawl under a rock.  that was the general concensus in #ubuntu-iso today.
<maxamillion> j1mc: join in on the planning, throw out ideas for +1, specs, etc.
<j1mc> that just means i'll be freed up to help in other areas.  :)
<j1mc> maxamillion: yep.  :)
<somerville32> <g>
<maxamillion> j1mc: or take a breather, feel free to kick back and drink some lemonade (or other beverage of choice)
<j1mc> anything else for feisty?
<j1mc> launch-related celebrations? announcements?
<janimo> j1mc: the organizing skills gained and the team built for ISO testing can be reused for LP bug triaging :)
<somerville32> Huzzah! :D
<j1mc> janimo: that's what i think, too.  i don't want to overburden testers, but it seems like a natural progression.
<maxamillion> janimo: how long after the release will we focus on bug triage for feisty before shifting over to +1?
<j1mc> maxamillion: there will be no bugs in feisty after release.  ;-)
<somerville32> haha
<somerville32> Feisty bug triage will continue until it is retired. I believe we move right into the specification drafting phase once Feisty has been released.
<maxamillion> j1mc: of course ... how horrible of me :P
<nixternal> GO XUBUNTU! :)
<somerville32> Weee!! :D
<j1mc> nixternal!!
* nixternal goes back to sKool
<maxamillion> somerville32: agreed, but janimo was saying the once the package freeze happens its much harder to deal with fixing bugs
<j1mc> later, nixternal . . .
<somerville32> maxamillion, It is extra work but the package freeze isn't exactly lifted once the release occurs.
<maxamillion> somerville32: no i kno
<maxamillion> +W
<janimo> maxamillion: bug triage will focus on feisty as sson as feisty opens
<janimo> maxamillion: although in the first weeks after the release wee need ot watch feisty closely
<janimo> in case some nasty bug appears
* somerville32 nods.
* j1mc nods, too
* maxamillion does as well
<j1mc> like with the upgrade from dapper to edgy.
<j1mc> ... or the upgrade-related problems :)
<somerville32> hehe
<maxamillion> i will start keeping an eye on launchpad soon and i think i will actually upgrade to feisty on my work machine starting right now as an upgrade install
<janimo> somerville32: you could take care of SRUs for feisty :)
<somerville32> lol
<janimo> since you've done some for edgy and dapper
<j1mc> SRU's?
<maxamillion> janimo: its safe to upgrade to feisty from a stability stand point?
<somerville32> Yes, I do believe that I'll be out of the hospital by then :)
<janimo> maxamillion: it has been since it started - november :)
<janimo> it may have been quirky but it is stable
<somerville32> With certain periods that made it impossible to upgrade ;] 
<j1mc> maxamillion: i had a good upgrade experience, and so did "vincent".
<maxamillion> janimo: oh, didn't know that .... i probably could have just upgraded my work machine
* maxamillion goes to edit his sources.list
<janimo> that is the point of flights and betas to get peoiple to test :)
<somerville32> Anyhows, I only have roughly 20 minutes of battery life left. :)
<j1mc> what else do we need to discuss?
<janimo> j1mc: I've added/removed a few items in the long list of tests
<janimo> j1mc: nothing in particular
<janimo> the bug traigers problem would be nice toi get solved
<somerville32> janimo: Did you get a chance to read my list to the serve?
<j1mc> ok, i'll take a look at the diff file-thing later tonight.
<janimo> similar to the ISO test team
<janimo> somerville32: I have skimmed it but have not read the whole thread yet
<j1mc> janimo: i will talk with freddy about triage'ers.  he's good with that.
<janimo> j1mc: ok, thanks
<somerville32> Admiral_Chicago, Said he was going to volunteer to look after Marketing and consider his experience with the marketing team, I think it is safe to leave it in his hands.
<somerville32> *considering
<maxamillion> janimo: i know, but i only have 2 computers at my disposal at the moment ... my work machine and my home machine and i didn't want to risk either (i normally do my testing on spare machines at work, but its been really busy lately and i haven't had the time)
<j1mc> since feisty release is coming up, what do we want to do for release-related stuff?
<j1mc> could we have the website updated by then?
<j1mc> to fit the new ubuntu theme?
<maxamillion> janimo: why does a "sudo aptitude dist-upgrade" want to install apache?
<somerville32> j1mc: I strongly doubt it.
<maxamillion> j1mc: has ubuntu released the theme yet?
<j1mc> somerville32: ok.  :)
<j1mc> we are using the theme (largely unchanged) on our ubuntu-chicago loco.
<janimo> j1mc: I agree with website update
<j1mc> http://chi.ubuntu-us.org/
<janimo> if we could make it a bit less crowded would help as well
<somerville32> j1mc: Unfortunately I'd be required for that process as I'm the only one with shell access
<maxamillion> j1mc: oh, so you have it? .... is there any way i could get my hands on that code?
<somerville32> j1mc: However, you could speak with TheSheep
<janimo> j1mc: nice ripoff ;)
* j1mc didn't do it... thank nixternal .  :-)
<maxamillion> somerville32: wait, it would require shell access?
<maxamillion> somerville32: why so?
<maxamillion> nixternal: thanks!!!!
<somerville32> maxamillion, Yes. Uploading of the new theme.
<janimo> maxamillion: no idea why apache is needed
<maxamillion> janimo: hmmm.... well, i told it to go ahead, firestarter won't allow any connections even if i can't for some reason remove it later
<somerville32> janimo, maxamillion, j1mc: If you can get the theme to TheSheep then I'm sure he could hack it into place for us in time for the release.
<j1mc> somerville32: i will get in touch with TheSheep.
<maxamillion> our meeting is over, anyone mind if we move to #xubuntu-devel and continue this convo?
<somerville32> Our meeting is over?
<maxamillion> somerville32: we get 1 hour in here right?
<somerville32> 2
<j1mc> we have until 23:59, 1 hour, 59 minutes.  :)
<somerville32> (12 mins of battery left for me though)
<j1mc> maxamillion: we're ok
<j1mc> ok... must chat fast before cody's battery dies.
<maxamillion> ohhhh ok
<j1mc> maxamillion: hold off your upgrade.  :)
<janimo> ok, bye everyone
<maxamillion> j1mc: why?
<j1mc> just joking . . .
<somerville32> janimo: As for bug triage, I'll brainstorm
<j1mc> i'm willing to help with docs for feisty+1
<somerville32> What I'd quickly like to discuss (with you still here janimo)is the IRC situation.
<j1mc> and will start helping to triage bugs, i've been meaning to do that anyway.
<janimo> somerville32: yes?
<j1mc> ok, go ahead, cody.
<maxamillion> j1mc: you scared me ... i almost ctrl+c'd the upgrade
<j1mc> maxamillion: sorry.
<maxamillion> j1mc: lol, no worries ;)
<somerville32> As I detailed in my e-mail, a couple of weeks before my hospitalization, there was conflict within the ubuntu-irc team,
<TheSheep> hello :)
<maxamillion> j0
<j1mc> Hi TheSheep, PuMpErNiCkLe
<j1mc> somerville32: go ahead.  :)
<PuMpErNiCkLe> oy
<somerville32> What I'd like to see changed is that the xubuntu namespace remain under xubuntu community control.
<somerville32> This was the case before the conflict but long story short, I no longer am the contact for those channels.
<j1mc> i don't know why it was wrested away, but i'm for xubuntu-community control, too.
<somerville32> ie. I got the boot.
<janimo> somerville32: as opposed to ? I am not familiar at all with the Ubuntu IRC channels and operation
<somerville32> I'd like to see this issue resolved.
<janimo> somerville32: what is the disadvantage of not being the contact anymore?
<somerville32> The current settings can't be changed by us
<somerville32> Only by Seveas
<maxamillion> janimo: right now we don't actually have an official "contact" for our irc channels ... but it is still heavily op'd by xubuntu community members (myself, TheSheep and PuMpErNiCkLe being included in the list of ops)
<somerville32> What happened was entirely inappropriate but thats not what I want to focus on
<j1mc> somerville32: do you need our help?  if so, what can we do?
<somerville32> Tough question.
<maxamillion> somerville32: how did you pull off shell access to xubuntu.org btw?
<PuMpErNiCkLe> What, particularly, is inappropriate about the way it is now?
<somerville32> maxamillion, Magic
* somerville32 is running out of time.
<somerville32> PuMpErNiCkLe, The only issue is that the channel is not controlled by an  Xubuntu community member
<j1mc> somerville32: maybe we can hash this out some more on xubuntu-devel?
<maxamillion> somerville32: how not? ... TheSheep, PuMpErNiCkLe, and myself control it do we not?
<j1mc> somerville32: ... i say that only bc your battery is dying
<somerville32> janimo: If you'd like, I  can  send you an e-mail detailing the entire situation.
<somerville32> I gotta run.
<janimo> somerville32: It is more approproate for this to be resolved in the open
<janimo> somerville32: I cannot do anything about it as I am not connected in any way with the IRC operators
<j1mc> TheSheep: somerville32 suggested that i contact you about the website.
<somerville32> A lot of it has to do with private e-mails to the CC.
<maxamillion> j1mc: yeah, i have breifed him about it on jabber
<janimo> somerville32: if it cannot be agreed upon by the involved parties it is a matter for the UBuntu Council, but it would be better to not get there..
<somerville32> It is hard to articulate this issue with only a few seconds of battery left
<somerville32> We can continue this at another time :)
<j1mc> ok
<TheSheep> j1mc: I can do the styles and graphics, and I can also make a matching theme for moin if we can do that, I just need to know how it is supposed to look exactly
<maxamillion> i still don't understand how we don't control it now
<maxamillion> it being the irc channels
<somerville32> maxamillion, Ops are only level 10
<maxamillion> somerville32: ooooh, we need a xubuntu community member at level 50 overseeing the chans?
* somerville32 nods.
<j1mc> TheSheep: isn't it in drupal, though?
<maxamillion> somerville32: ok, now i get it
<somerville32> Lets talk about the Xubuntu Council idea. Janimo?
<janimo> somerville32: I do not think we need a council at this point honestly
<janimo> until we only have 4-5 constantly contributing members
<TheSheep> j1mc: I don't care what it is -- if I have the samle html, I can make it look anyway I want using css and images
<maxamillion> TheSheep: yes, it is but since the theme is already done for drupal and all we need is some color changes and such it would be easy, i think TheSheep would also like to make a matching theme for our wiki pages
<somerville32> janimo: Aye.
<janimo> somerville32: what would the Council do that currently is missing
<somerville32> janimo: Direction
<TheSheep> the wiki is a secondary thing and we can do it later
<maxamillion> j1mc: ^^^^ that last one to TheSheep was towards you :P
<somerville32> janimo: A lot of the time I know I feel like I'm trying to move around a room in the dark.
<janimo> somerville32: why would the same people (us) collectively called Council get a direction if they cannot as separate individuals?
<janimo> somerville32: so we need Direction not necessarily a Council
<janimo> do you think a Council could have more influence on contributors?
<somerville32> Possibly
<janimo> the Ubuntu CC and TB are only called for when something unexpected needs to be decided upon
<janimo> what we need is better organization
<janimo> as an example the ISO testing team
* somerville32 nods.
<somerville32> Ok
<janimo> if we had a compeneten bug triaging team half of our problems would go away :)
* j1mc sees the iso testing team as being disorganized.  haha
<somerville32> j1mc: You pull it off well then ;] 
<janimo> j1mc: well at least it exists :)
<j1mc> yeah . . .
* j1mc was being off-topic.
<somerville32> janimo: So you see it as a good thing to form more teams?
<janimo> I do not think a council would help this particular problem of lack of direction
<janimo> for instance out meetings too ahve more like a meta quality to them
<janimo> since we do not have clear goals on the agenda
* somerville32 nods.
<janimo> I think what we need is more people getting involved
* somerville32 nods.
<janimo> and getting accross the message that we have a direction
<j1mc> fwiw, i think that having a xubuntu testing team has been helpful.  it's something they see on their launchpad,
<janimo> which at this point would be a lie
<janimo> :)
<j1mc> and they feel part of it, and a responsibility to help out.
* somerville32 nods.
<somerville32> j1mc: I agree completely with you.
<maxamillion> j1mc: how would i go about joining the testing team? ... that is something i plan to be a part of asap
<janimo> maybe the community does not know where we need help
<janimo> maybe from the outside itlooks like we have few bugs and people are on them
<janimo> s there;s no place to contribute
<somerville32> janimo: I think that if you made yourself more available on IRC then it would inspire people :)
<janimo> we have to change that if it's so
* somerville32 nods.
<janimo> because we badly need competent bug triagers
<somerville32> I
<somerville32> err..
<j1mc> maxamillion: https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-testers
<janimo> somerville32: possibly, but I sort of hope that at least some roles can be taken over by others
<janimo> as I have much less time these days for ubunty, and so I prefer spending it on adding features :)
* somerville32 nods.
<somerville32> Awesome.
<j1mc> it sounds like a xubuntu bug triage team might be helpful.
<maxamillion> j1mc: would i get notification of updates from joining it or should i wait to sign up until i am able to actually help?
<somerville32> I'm really glade you could make it out Janimo.
<somerville32> You've clarified a lot of stuff and I think that'll make moving forward a lot easier.
<j1mc> maxamillion: no, you wouldn't get updates from joining.
<janimo> somerville32: ok, I too think this was a helpful meeting
<maxamillion> j1mc: well i joined anyways since i am upgrading to feisty and i will be able to help with bug triage on my work machine when i get down time around the office now anyways
<janimo> yes, a nug team would be helpful
<janimo> I know ubuntu have the BugSquad but am not familiar with their organization and processes
<j1mc> nug team?  ;)
<janimo> :)
<Burgwork> the ubuntu bugsquad is for all dervis
<maxamillion> janimo: i am a member, there really isn't any organization that i am aware of
<somerville32> That it is
<janimo> NUG: Non-utility generation (or generator)  -- synonymous with independent power.
<janimo> the only definition I found on the web
<janimo> sounds good
<j1mc> freddy said that he could coordinate a bug triage coaching session.
<janimo> Burgwork: ok, that we need xubuntu users join the bugsquad and learn its ways :)
<j1mc> that might be a good way to get ppl involved before considering creating a new team.
<janimo> j1mc: sure, I don ot think that creating teams in LP is a necessary step
<maxamillion> j1mc: i would like to attend that, it would give me better bearings on what direction i should go in with bugs in general
<janimo> it leads to the initial enthusiasm of being member of one more team but that wears off
<j1mc> they could just join bugsquad (not sure on it's membership requirements), and focus on xubuntu (of their own free will).
* somerville32 nods.
<j1mc> janimo: true . . .
<janimo> rather have people organized so the work they do is so efficient that that is a satisfaction in itself
<somerville32> We could have a "team" but not have an lp team
<janimo> sure
<somerville32> ie. just a wiki page that gives directions and what not
<somerville32> It might have xfce4 specific info and what not
<somerville32> I'm sure we can whip up good solutions and see exponential growth of our community during the next release cycle.
<somerville32> Now, before my batter dies, any ideas, devel-wise, for feisty+1?
<janimo> somerville32: nope, too early IMHO
<janimo> I have none
<maxamillion> janimo: did you read what i said about getting in contact with companies that are shipping xubuntu default in order to collaborate with them in the mailing list?
<somerville32> janimo: Are you planning on going to the devel summit?
<janimo> as usual get newest Xfce, get apps form Ubutnu if its possible to rid them of gnome deps
<Admiral_Chicago> so i got the message that we need competent bug triager
<janimo> somerville32: yes, I am going
<Admiral_Chicago> I would like to help train them
<j1mc> Admiral_Chicago FTW!
<maxamillion> Admiral_Chicago: i'm a pupil
<Admiral_Chicago> i have done a bit of teaching j1mc and other LoCo members
<janimo> maxamillion: yes. I think companies can get in touch with us if they need anything, usually that;s how it works
<janimo> their developers joining the list etc
<j1mc> there goes cody's battery . . . :(
<j1mc> hehe
<Admiral_Chicago> working on a bug diary in the next week, so I can explain to others how that works
<maxamillion> janimo: oh ok, but you don't think we should generally go out and try to be pro-actively in contact with them
<janimo> maxamillion: unless we have some specific request to them I do not think so
<Admiral_Chicago> maxamillion: will keep you in mind, i'll be mailing the list with a bug triage training session time soon
<janimo> maxamillion: what do you think the contact should be about?
<maxamillion> Admiral_Chicago: you planning on writing up a tutorial/documentation on bug triaging or will there be a session on irc i should be attending
<Admiral_Chicago> both
<maxamillion> Admiral_Chicago: oh ok, awesome ... i will keep a lookout for it
<Admiral_Chicago> the tutorial is in progress, a little bit on my blog at planet.ubuntu.com (look for Freddy Martinez)
<maxamillion> janimo: just let them know we are aware they are shipping xubuntu and appreciate it and ask if there are any suggestions they get from customers that they feel would better improve the distro
<Admiral_Chicago> some has been "anyone want to do some bug work on IRC"
<Admiral_Chicago> i'm going to make it a lot more formal though
<j1mc> janimo: it sounds like effective bug triage would be most helpful to you at this time.  other than general lack of support, anything else in particular that you'd like to see in regards to bugs?
<maxamillion> Admiral_Chicago: yeah, i mainly mentioned tutorial/documentation because that way you can type once, post ... maybe even write it and post a link in an email and say "read this and then come to the meeting for further discussion or if you have any questions" .... just a thought
<Admiral_Chicago> anyways, here is what I am thinking about Marketing. I plan *in the future* of talking Xuuntu to a few papers that would carry it
<Admiral_Chicago> right now, press releases, (New in Beta 2 for example) is what I want to focus on
<Admiral_Chicago> maxamillion: that would be a good way to start
<Burgwork> Admiral_Chicago: press releases are being handled by canonical
<Burgwork> see my email ot the marketin list
<maxamillion> Admiral_Chicago: i like the idea of talking to papers
<janimo> maxamillion: I am sure companies that want to improve xubuntu wil get in touch or fix it themselves
<janimo> honestly I do not think we need to be very poractive
<maxamillion> janimo: fair enough
<janimo> afetr all we annot find them all :)
<janimo> j1mc: no, bug triage is #1 request
<Admiral_Chicago> Burgwork: these pages http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/feistybeta ?
<j1mc> janimo: understood.  :)  i've been meaning to do more of it, and will do my best.
<janimo> j1mc: thanks :)
<Admiral_Chicago> and the appropriate Kubuntu relase one?
<janimo> even the occasional reqeust for more details from the original reporter helps
<janimo> as sometime the release name is ommitted or the info is vague
<janimo> other times linking andf filing to upstream bugzilla is desired, xfce mostly
<Burgwork> Admiral_Chicago: see the mailing list post
<Burgwork> it explains everything
<janimo> ok, anything else?
<janimo> 2:40 AM here :)
<Admiral_Chicago> Burgwork: will do, gotta check that email then...
<Admiral_Chicago> change of policy...okay thats fine
<j1mc> janimo: thanks, that additional info helps.
* janimo is making up for all the missed meetings
<j1mc> janimo: :)  thanks for being here.
<j1mc> anything else for jani?
<janimo> thanks all for coming, other specific things can be taken to the list
* j1mc moves to let jani go to seelp.
* maxamillion seconds the motion
<j1mc> ok.  thanks, all.  we're nearing our end time, anyway.
* maxamillion rounds the "45 minutes left on upgrade to feisty" corner on his work machine
<Admiral_Chicago> Burgwork: one last thing, how long ago was this, I subscribe to the marketing ML and don't see it
<janimo> ok bye all
<j1mc> bye janimo
<maxamillion> bye janimo
<j1mc> bye everyone.
<Burgwork> Admiral_Chicago: it was titled with Chris Kenyon in the name
<maxamillion> laters all!!!
<Admiral_Chicago> ad i think i know the one you are talking about...hmm. okay searching
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 29 Mar 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Apr 20:00 UTC: Marketing Team | 02 Apr 15:00 UTC: Community question time | 03 Apr 11:00 UTC: Community Council | 03 Apr 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 03 Apr 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team
<somerville32> Hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi somerville32
<somerville32> Long time no see
* somerville32 is still in the hospital unfortunately.
<flubber> SEND #edubuntu hello
<bimberi> @schedule canberra
<ubotu> Schedule for Australia/Canberra: 30 Mar 07:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 02 Apr 06:00: Marketing Team | 03 Apr 01:00: Community question time | 03 Apr 21:00: Community Council | 04 Apr 01:00: Kernel Team | 04 Apr 04:00: Mozilla Team
<Riddell> ~
<lotusleaf> 
<kylem> @schedule Canada/Eastern
<ubotu> Schedule for Canada/Eastern: 29 Mar 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Apr 16:00: Marketing Team | 02 Apr 11:00: Community question time | 03 Apr 07:00: Community Council | 03 Apr 11:00: Kernel Team | 03 Apr 14:00: Mozilla Team
<kwwii> sometimes I think UTC was created so that *nobody* knows what time it is :p
<beuno> kwwii: foxclocks firefox extension saved my life
<Mithrandir> but UTC is beautiful.
<kwwii> beuno: thanks, I'll look into that
<beuno> kwwii: np
<Riddell>  /topic is wrong, meeting is in 40 mins
<BFTD> oh?
<Seveas> Riddell, then the fridge iCal feed is wrong
<Seveas> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 29 Mar 21:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Apr 20:00: Marketing Team | 02 Apr 15:00: Community question time | 03 Apr 11:00: Community Council | 03 Apr 15:00: Kernel Team | 03 Apr 18:00: Mozilla Team
<Riddell> blame keybuk for not updating it then
<gnomefreak> an hour off?
<Seveas> heh
<Riddell> it what changed due to summer time
<Seveas> @topic
<Seveas> nope, fridge wasn't updated
<racarr> @schedule New_York
<ubotu> Schedule for America/New_York: 29 Mar 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Apr 16:00: Marketing Team | 02 Apr 11:00: Community question time | 03 Apr 07:00: Community Council | 03 Apr 11:00: Kernel Team | 03 Apr 14:00: Mozilla Team
* fabbione waves
<pitti> bon soir
<Keybuk> bon soir, a va?
<mdz> good evening
<mdz> cjwatson: ping
* Mithrandir pongs.
<kwwii> evening everyone
<Riddell> hi
<dholbach> mvo might be 2-3 minutes late
<dholbach> hi seb128
<seb128> hey dholbach
<bdmurray> hello
<pkl_> hello
<heno> hello
<asac> hi
<mdz> cjwatson,kylem,doko,rtg,tkamppeer: ping
<Keybuk> mvo: ping
<kylem> yo
<rtg> lurking attentively.
<dholbach> mdz: doko_ might be a little late too
<Keybuk> (one might consider the futility of pinging someone who isn't online :p)
<mdz> dholbach mentioned mvo might be late
<pitti> Keybuk: summoning powers
<cjwatson> here
<cjwatson> doko said to me he would be late due to travelling, yes
<mdz> cjwatson: and till?
<tkamppeter> I am here
<mdz> ok, that's everyone then
<cjwatson> Ben also said he might be a little late due to needing to rescue his wife from traffic
<mvo> hello, sorry for being late
<mdz> cjwatson: BenC connected a few minutes ago
<cjwatson> er, no, that's rescue his kids from the bus stop due to wife stuck in traffic - something coherent anyway :)
<cjwatson> aha
<BenC> I'm on, I just have to get the kids in a few minutes :)
<mdz> any additions to the agenda since the reports came in?
<bdmurray> I wanted to talk about n-m and /etc/network/interfaces
<cjwatson> BenC: oh, I forgot about BST and misunderstood the times you gave
<bdmurray> and upgrading from edgy to feisty
<tkamppeter> Yes, I am searching volunteers for HPLIP 1.7.3 testing
<mdz> bdmurray: is there a bug number for that?
<mdz> bdmurray: please add to the wiki
<bdmurray> mdz: newz2000 had a bug about it and I've seen others I believe
<fabbione> bdmurray: ++
<mdz> bdmurray: can you add tkamppeter's item as well?
<mdz> ok
<mdz> (pitti) "Report a bug" menu item -> disable for release?
<pitti> my two questions are mainly directed towards the desktop team and cjwatson, since they have by far the most bug reports, I guess
<seb128> I think we should stop the crash handler and let the menu item
<cjwatson> pitti: I don't have a problem
<dholbach> I'm personally happy with the menu item - we get useful information through it.
<cjwatson> (as far as my own bugs are concerned)
<mdz> I just posted something about this to the list a minute ago
<pitti> My feeling is that we should stop reporting signal crashes, and maybe keep Python crashes
<cjwatson> I'd much, much, much rather get apport bugs than "er, it crashed, I can't install Ubuntu, help"
<pitti> dholbach: with the per-app one, or the general one in the System menu?
<asac> personally i like to keep crash reports for firefox
<seb128> pitti: you will make mvo cry, he gets lot of python dups
<BFTD> agreed
<pitti> cjwatson: right, that was my gut feeling too; but for the installer they seem to be more relevant to me than, let's say, gnome 2.18 crashes
<dholbach> pitti: both
<mvo> I have mixed feeling, its great to get backtrace, but I'm afraid about the flood
<seb128> we will get flooded
<pitti> for example, we get a lot of bugs without a package through the System menu
<mdz> we estimate there are millions of Ubuntu users
<seb128> GNOME bugzilla got over 500 dups on some bugs from bug-buddy and 90% were Ubuntu bugs
<pitti> and we have to consider how many crashes we realistically fix in stables
<cjwatson> I'll certainly get flooded, *but* I'm going to get flooded *anyway* if the installer is crashing
<iwj> Can we make apport only work for certain apps, easily ?
<mdz> if we have a crash which affects 1% of them, and 1% of those report it, that's hundreds of bugs
<seb128> there were getting over 1000 edgy crashes a week
<cjwatson> it's either get flooded with decent-quality bugs, or with poor-quality bugs
<pitti> iwj: theoretically yes, but hard to decide; I'd prefer classes like sigsegv vs. python
<seb128> cjwatson: well, crashes are special
<seb128> cjwatson: if nautilus crash once a day due to a bug we will get hundred of people sending it
<mdz> I think that leaving it enabled for crashes would be fine, if we could avoid filing duplicates for the same crash
<pitti> seb128: how many apport and normal bugs do you get for edgy, roughly?
<mdz> the existing guided filing doesn't seem to do a good enough job
<pitti> keeping in mind that edgy's apport was much harder to use
<Keybuk> mdz: "me too" is planned, but not implemented
<seb128> pitti: hard to tell, most bugs we get now are already feisty
<Keybuk> (I wouldn't hold out hope of seeing anything like that pre-1.0)
<seb128> pitti: I would say 100 a week some time ago
<iwj> "me too" would be really nice.  It would help with the false duplicates, too.
<pitti> right, Malone needs to become much more insistive with identical subjects, etc.
<pitti> but I don't bet on it for feisty
<mdz> Keybuk: I think that's a different problem
<seb128> we have no dup finding easy capability atm
<cjwatson> pitti: of course, it will help even if it gets implemented after Feisty
<seb128> malone search don't look in comments nor attachments
<asac> if we really cannot deal with crash flood we should disable imo and set high priority to get a crash database for next stable release
<cjwatson> changes in Malone, that is
<bdmurray> mdz: I added the n-m thing but don't know about the till item
<mdz> people who are filing duplicates are probably doing it because they either don't see the existing bug, or don't know that the right thing to do at that point is just stop
<mdz> bdmurray: <tkamppeter> Yes, I am searching volunteers for HPLIP 1.7.3 testing
<tkamppeter> See bug 98520
<ubotu> Malone bug 98520 in hplip "Feisty UVF ER: New HPLIP 1.7.3 release fixes lots of bugs" [Medium,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/98520
<pitti> right, for feisty+1 we might have a more efficient retracer, automatic retracing, and automatic dup detection; we have none of them ATM
<seb128> to be honest I prefer people filling duplicates
<mdz> seb128: really? why?
<tkamppeter> This is an UVF ER for HPLIP 1.7.3, as it fixes tons of bugs
<seb128> on gaim we get people attaching their crashes to some random people pretty often
<seb128> dunno why
<bdmurray> mdz: done
<seb128> but we have lot of bugs with 10 differents crashes attached there
<cjwatson> seb128: agreed
<seb128> because people came saying "I've the same bug, here is my crash"
<mvo> seb128: yes, I get quite a lot of those as well
<mdz> tkamppeter: ok, it is on the list and we can discuss it later in the agenda
<pitti> seb128: NB that people won't manually attach apport reports any more
<cjwatson> I have made the same comment many times in the past
<tkamppeter> As we are shortly before release we need intensive testing on this.
<seb128> I keep replying "when you don't know what you are doing open a new bug and let busquad direct you"
<cjwatson> tkamppeter: later in the agenda, please
<pitti> seb128: that was a specific problem of edgy's 'please attach me' apport, wasn't it?
<tkamppeter> sorry, I thought mdz was calling me.
<seb128> pitti: dunno
<mdz> pitti: I think so
<seb128> pitti: but I prefer people to open a dup than trying to figure themself if that's a dup
<pitti> seb128: right, the goal is that Malone figures out whether it is a dup
<seb128> they get it wrong often and that's really confusing
<bdmurray> bughelper could help in the meantime with dupe detection right?
<asac> seb128: ack ... i want every crash report in its own bug ... then retrace and mark dupes afterwards.
<mdz> my feeling is that bug reports are not something that every user should deal with.
<dholbach> if people submitted their clue files :)
<bdmurray> dholbach: indeed
<BFTD> can we have fontforge a requiarment to install WINE?
<mdz> only users who are closer to the community and will participate in analysis should file bugs, generally
<pitti> mdz: mpt had a strong point about the general 'I filed a bug, and noone answered' picture
<iwj> I think I'm with mdz here.
<seb128> bughelper is not good at dupfinding atm
<pitti> therefore I agree with mdz
<mdz> BFTD: the meeting agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelTeamMeeting20070329, we're on item 3
<mvo> does bughelper scale well enough for this task?
<BFTD> mdz sorry
<dholbach> mvo: no
<seb128> you can't look for a sequence of functions
<seb128> mvo: no
<iwj> People who don't have the effort/knowledge/connection to get involved should perhaps be using the support system.
<seb128> looking for a string is no enough
<mdz> if only a relatively small portion of users should file bugs, we shouldn't point every user to the bug tracker
<cjwatson> (bughelper can be improved post-feisty)
<mdz> we do want the crash reports, but until we have a better place to put them than Malone...
<seb128> right
<pitti> mdz: I don't even thing that Malone is a bad place for it; we just need better tools to deal with them
<fernando> hey all
<asac> yeah ... imo keep crashes out of BTS ... so disable until we have crash db
<seb128> pitti: it's bad, too much noise
<seb128> we should have a crash collector and something making easy to move confirmed crashes to a bug
<asac> pitti: i think its a bad place as well
<cjwatson> from the disagreement in the team, I think we may need some kind of per-package solution
<seb128> so we don't even have to bother looking what to dup
<pitti> and I think that in this cycle we were able to fix a lot of bugs in feisty with the current system; we should continue to do so in feisty+1 for feisty+1 instead of trying to fix crashes in stables
<cjwatson> perhaps implemented something like the existing hooks mechanism
<iwj> I don't know what the density of real crasher bugs in gnome is but I get a nonzero number of dpkg crash reports which are basically "my hardware is bust".
<BFTD> or give the user the option to install/use the reporter in the installtion
<seb128> the best for GNOME would be to turn on bug-buddy
<pitti> seb128: ok; we have that spec already, so we need to talk about it again at UDS
<Keybuk> iwj: that'd surprise me, since we'd get them for everything
<seb128> but backtraces are screwed on feisty, we can't send bugs upstream
<Keybuk> are you sure that they're not just deep dpkg bugs? :p
<cjwatson> Keybuk: we do get them for ubiquity ...
<heno> can we allow users to turn on apport manually if they see a recurring bug? that way we could ask for it from users we know will follow up etc. or ask it iof someone who has already filed
<iwj> I investigate them and it turns out the machine had toasted filesystems.
<Keybuk> I've never had them for upstart ;)
<mdz> seb128: why would bug-buddy be better?
<pitti> heno: yes, that's easy
<cjwatson> but that's ok, I have Tollef's greasemonkey script to help me reject them in about five seconds
<Keybuk> (I've never actually had a crash report at all for it)
<pitti> heno: well, it would be with flipping /etc/default/apport
<seb128> mdz: because bugzilla.gnome has more bug triager, they have a decent dup finder, they are used to it, and 98% of crashes are due to upstream
<heno> pitti: so perhaps that should be our policy?
<iwj> They're not common but then dpkg is not the biggest memory hog out there.  I just wonder how many other crashes there are that are due to slightly-dodgy machines.
<pitti> so if we ask an user to switch that on, we can still get selected reports for feisty
<mvo> iwj: I have seen quite a few in apt (well, some are real I suppose :)
<heno> pitti: you mean selected in a good way or bad way (skewed sample)?
<iwj> mvo: *snort*
<pitti> heno: in a way to get quantities we can cope with, together with a commitment from the reporter to give feedback
<mdz> heno: it would be great if we could find a way to turn it on only for responsive users
<doko_> joining
<iwj> `To qualify for this service, you must be at least >  < this competent.'
<mdz> we want to be able to use it to assist bug reports which would otherwise take more time to process, without getting reports which are useless
<heno> if we make it easy (which pitti says it is) we could request it in bug comments regularly
<pitti> iwj: it could check your LP karma :)
<heno> better than 'please upload /var/log/...
<heno> well, if someone has already filed a bug without the system asking them too they are more involved than the average user
<mdz> heno: right
<mdz> hmm
<pitti> hm, so am I right that the opinions lead towards keeping Python (for ubiquity & friends) and disabling signal crashes by default, with the possibility of enabling it again in /etc/default/apport?
<mdz> pitti: I assume we can have it store the crash file, but not notify the user to submit it?
<pitti> asac: you had two slightly different statements; what do you think about the firefox front?
<mdz> pitti: if so, when a user files a bug, we could give them a command to run to submit the crash to the bug, right?
<asac> i am unsure ... on the one hand I want to get feedback so i see if there are regressions for some users
<heno> (I support turning it most off too -- have no opinion about python or other categories)
<pitti> mdz: yes; that would require minor code changes, but no problem
<asac> especially since we upload new upstream reports
<mdz> pitti: that seems like the best of both worlds where crashes are concerned
<cjwatson> pitti: we could also make it behave differently on the live CD
<asac> otoh dealing with that flood of crashes is hard in malone
<cjwatson> (by tweaking stuff in casper)
<mdz> pitti: we wouldn't get the pre-filled summary...
<cjwatson> for installer crashes I see no value in giving the user a command versus the notification icon
<mdz> cjwatson: argeed
<mdz> agreed
<pitti> mdz: oh, I thought you meant something like 'run apport-gtk by hand' to collect and report pending stuff in /var/crash
<mdz> I think the installer is a special case, though
<mdz> because the crash reports are lost
<cjwatson> it is, but I need it to be addressed :)
<cjwatson> sorry to keep banging on about it
<pitti> so we would mainly turn off the auto-spawning in update-notifier
<mdz> cjwatson: do you want crash reports to remain on for the installer?
<cjwatson> mdz: yes
<mdz> cjwatson: I don't think anyone here would object to you receiving more reports on ubiquity if you want them
<cjwatson> :-)
<pitti> Python crash reports are really neat
<mdz> let's put that to rest, then, shall we?
<pitti> cheap in terms of bandwidth, and easily dup'able
<mdz> crash reports for ubiquity in 7.04 - thumbs up
<pitti> *idea*
<seb128> well, there is the same flood with them
<cjwatson> the remaining question is whether that be done for all python scripts, or just for the live CD
<pitti> what about simply adding an option to update-notifier?
<mdz> seb128: but it's an isolated flood for colin, and he wants it
<mvo> pitti: a gconf key? easy enough
<pitti> turn that off by default, and provide a moderately hidden switch to turn it on again?
<seb128> mdz: I was speaking about python crashes in general, not only ubiquity
<seb128> I think ubiquity is ok
<mdz> seb128: ok
<cjwatson> hence my suggestion of doing it in a package hook or similar
<seb128> I've looked at all the unconfirmed apport bug in malone last week
<seb128> and we have hundred of them already
<cjwatson> look, we seem to be going round in circles, and we're 28 minutes in
<pitti> cjwatson: casper could flip that gconf key for the live session, too
<seb128> and a good bunch of them were python crashes
<cjwatson> can we all agree to thrash this out on ubuntu-devel? :-)
<seb128> ok
<pitti> ACTION: pitti to summarize discussion in #u-devel and continue there
<janimo> pitti: the python backtraces for system-config-printer were all very helpful FWIW
<asac> maybe we can move things to mailing list instead of irc?
<seb128> all the crash files are really useful
<mdz> I think we should briefly discuss the menu item in the meeting, since that's a separate issue
<pitti> so we covered my second TOP now
<cjwatson> pitti: erm - mailing list rather than IRC?
<cjwatson> or maybe IRC would work, dunno
<pitti> cjwatson: erm, of course
<seb128> the thing is that after some time you get the sames crash again and again and not a lot of new
<seb128> and the noise increase
<mdz> crash reports -> ubuntu-devel@
<pitti> bdmurray: I take it you get a lot of bug reports without a package through the System 'report a bug' menu?
<mdz> menu item -> here
<mdz> bdmurray: yes, tell us about what you see as a result of that menu item
<bdmurray> pitti: I'm not sure what would be the give away that it was from that menu item?
<mdz> bdmurray: it should include a footer
<pitti> bdmurray: the apport info in them
<pitti> about Ubuntu version, uname, etc.
<pitti> of course the user can select a package in malone, but many of them don't
<pitti> and mpt raised the point that getting tons of unanswered bugs neither helps the reporters nor us
<bdmurray> I haven't counted that much but don't think there are a lot and the Ubuntu version is helpful because people do forget that a lot.
<mdz> especially since it's called "report a problem"
<mdz> and users have many problems which aren't bugs
<mdz> including problems which have nothing to do with Ubuntu
<mdz> bear in mind that OEMs will preinstall Ubuntu in mass quantities
<mdz> users who get Ubuntu and don't even know what it is could end up reporting this as a "problem" with their computer
<pitti> I for myself get more and more 'unqualified' reports now, without any answer in many cases
<pitti> the menu item in the application's help menu (lp-i) might be better, it already has the package and such, and more likely to get a proper description
<seb128> right
<mdz> pitti: and it can call package hooks
<pitti> right
<mdz> I propose that we disable the item in the System menu
<bdmurray> and it is slightly more obscured too
<mdz> does anyone feel that we'd be losing out on better bug reports by doing that?
<bdmurray> so people would have to be looking for help
<pitti> we should rather improve the Firefox start page or help center and have them point to wiki, etc.
<pitti> and the more community-oriented people will find Launchpad just as well as they did so far
<cjwatson> that would be a pretty small change to the Firefox start page, I think, and that's something OEMs can and probably (without proof) do customise
<cjwatson> I'm with mdz here
<seb128> mdz: the problem is that only a small set of app are patched for lpi
<pitti> right, you cannot use it to report a postgres bug, but *shrug*
<seb128> maybe moving the panel one to applications, accessories?
<asac> btw, the firefox startpage does not ship in firefox package
<seb128> or system, admin ;)
<pitti> seb128: you hit me when I did that :)
<mdz> seb128: are you getting useful bug reports from it?
<cjwatson> asac: indeed, ubuntu-artwork et al
<dholbach> ubuntu-docs
<pitti> anyway, any strong opposition to the current proposal?
<seb128> mdz: no, but the apps I'm working on are using lpi
<mdz> seb128: we do have ubuntu-bug now, though it needs to be more widely advertised
<seb128> fair enough
<pitti> we even have a command-line apport frontend for servers now ;)
<mdz> consensus to disable System->Report a problem, then?
<seb128> I think having the command line command and lpi is good enough
<mdz> pitti: oh, neat
<seb128> +1
<asac> +1
<Mithrandir> mdz: yes, I think that makes sense.
<pitti> +1
<mdz> ok
<bdmurray> mdz: I'm running a bughelper query for those bugs and a lot are showing up.  Ones report by that menu item that is.
<kwwii> yippee! that fixes my one bu for me
<pitti> ACTION: pitti to disable system apport menu entry
<mdz> as I wrote on the mailing list, we should revisit it when we have better infrastructure in place for guiding the user, and handling the reports on the server side
<bdmurray> but it would me more useful if they had an application in them rather than going "nowhere" per se
<pitti> sorry for the long discussion, but I felt it is important to collect info
* dholbach hugs pitti
<mdz> pitti: can you add this to the agenda for apport refinements at UDS?
<pitti> mdz: definitively
<mdz> (bdmurray) What is the best / most effective way to communicate bugs I think might be important? e-mailing the distro team?
<mdz> pitti: thanks
* cjwatson proposed milestoning for things we need to look at before release
<pitti> mdz: 'that' -> bdmyrray's last comment, I take it?
<cjwatson> we can always unmilestone if need be
<Mithrandir> bdmurray: milestone + assign.
<mdz> pitti: no, my last comment (and the corresponding post to -devel)
<mdz> pitti: a discussion about generally how the user should report bugs, when, which tools, etc.
<pitti> right
<mdz> bdmurray: I see this as a release management function
<pitti> bdmurray: more email--; bug assignment + IRC pings work fine for me, personally
<bdmurray> IRC can be challenging with the time difference though
<mdz> bdmurray: so if you feel a bug is important enough to be tracked separately, it should be escalated to Mithrandir
<Mithrandir> bdmurray: we should ship you to Europe.
<iwj> irc pings aren't always very reliable.
<mvo> bdmurray: I like milestone + subscribe
<bdmurray> indeed
<pitti> bdmurray: but we already have bug email for the asynchronous discussions
<Mithrandir> iwj: for others, it's much more reliable than anything else.
<iwj> Mithrandir: That's scary to me.
<cjwatson> the problem with IRC pings for anything that needs attention urgently is that if the problem is actually urgent then they can be quite disruptive
<cjwatson> you need to stop what you're doing in case you forget
<seb128> I like IRC pings
<Mithrandir> iwj: why?  it feels like I'm subscribed to half of the packages in the archive; there's no way I'll never miss a thing there.  Pings show up in my session.
<seb128> I set the milestone, bug settings, etc as required and switch back to what I was doing usually
<iwj> Maybe your network/client/stuff is more reliable.  I find I occasionally miss them.
<seb128> it's not too disruptive and I know about the bug then
<seb128> iwj: well, if the other side doesn't reply I consider he didn't read it and try again later ;)
<Keybuk> heh, I have to agree with IRC here
<pitti> bdmurray: I think we recently got better bug mail headers, so that it should be possible to separate out the subscriptions from other people from the mass of bug mail from +packagebugs
<Mithrandir> cjwatson: so it depends on the person.  I don't develop very much software any more, I spend a fair amount of my time talking to people on IRC doing release management.
<Keybuk> I just about don't read bug mail anymore
<iwj> seb128: Ah, IC.  That makes much more sense now :-).
<Keybuk> since it takes longer to read it than it takes for more to arrive
<mdz> seb128: are you needing a standard method which works for the entire team, or are you asking what to do with bugs where you don't already know who to talk to and how?
<cjwatson> Keybuk++
<Keybuk> I've been unsubscribing from things as much as I can, but haven't yet got it down to a level I can actually *keep up* with
<Keybuk> (so if you've subscribed/assigned a bug to me ... I don't actually know about it yet <g>)
<pitti> mdz: that was meant for bdmurray, I take it
* Keybuk is somewhere in February right now, and that's even after heavy purging
<mdz> pitti: er, yes
<mdz> bdmurray: ^^ s/seb128/bdmurray/
<Mithrandir> Keybuk: the fun starts when teams are subscribed to bugs, and they should be so you can't just unsub them.
<bdmurray> mdz: more the latter
<Keybuk> Mithrandir: this is part of my problem
<mdz> ok, so let's not discuss personal preferences then
<bdmurray> for example bug 95821 seems pretty important
<ubotu> Malone bug 95821 in mysql-dfsg-5.0 "Replication failure with auto-increment and on duplicate key update" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/95821
<mdz> the question is what to do about orphan bugs
<bdmurray> but I have no idea where to go with it
<iwj> I think we may need to hurry this along a bit ?
<mdz> I've suggested that they go to the release team
<pitti> bdmurray: that sounds like upstream is the single appropriate target
<cjwatson> if there's nobody obvious to go to, then set the milestone and the RM can figure it out :-)
<Mithrandir> bdmurray: as the rest of the people here says; if you're unsure, milestone it.  unmilestoning is easy.
<mdz> Mithrandir: does that seem sensible to you?
<seb128> milestone them and encourage people to look at the milestoned bug every now and then?
<mdz> seb128: Mithrandir will do that regularly
<seb128> or let RM find the people ;)
<seb128> ok, works for me
<bdmurray> sounds good
<Mithrandir> I have said it before and I'll probably say it again: Please milestone bugs which you believe or think may be RC.  If you're unsure, ask me, or milestone anyway.
<mdz> Mithrandir: maybe the QA docs should say something about this if they don't already
<mdz> (bdmurray) bug 63365 and bug 76901
<ubotu> Malone bug 63365 in xorg "[feisty]  xorg incorrectly detects "lv3:ralt_switch" option in xorg.conf (dup-of: 76901)" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/63365
<ubotu> Malone bug 76901 in console-setup "right Alt key not recognized by default (lv3:ralt_switch shouldn't be set by default for US keyboard layouts)" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/76901
<Mithrandir> mdz: I don't know if they do; I'll make sure they do.
<bdmurray> mdz: that's not so important more just a reminder
<Mithrandir> ACTION: tfheen to make sure QA/bug triage information includes information about when to milestone.
<iwj> bdmurray: Err, so it doesn't need discussion here ?
<cjwatson> indeed, the first is a dup of the second and the second is milestoned
<bdmurray> iwj: no not really my mistake
<cjwatson> no discussion here needed I think unless there's anything further on it
<iwj> Fair enough.
<Mithrandir> malone's handling of duplicates is slightly icky, but that's mostly my problem.
<mdz> the right alt key on US keyboards is labeled "Alt" and should be equivalent to the left Alt key
<iwj> I like quick agenda items.
<mdz> it's assigned to cjwatson
<mdz> done
<mdz> (bdmurray) network-manager and /etc/network/interfaces when upgrading from edgy to feisty for example bug 96521
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 01 Apr 20:00 UTC: Marketing Team | 02 Apr 15:00 UTC: Community question time | 03 Apr 11:00 UTC: Community Council | 03 Apr 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 03 Apr 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team
<ubotu> Malone bug 96521 in network-manager "network manager won't let me connect to wifi" [Undecided,Rejected]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/96521
<mdz> bdmurray: is this the same issue that SteveA brought up?
<bdmurray> mdz: I'm not sure I saw thought.  But I believe n-m wasn't the default in Edgy. So people may have stuff configured in /etc/network/interfaces that confuses n-m.
<mdz> SteveA pointed to https://beta.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/87941
<bdmurray> after upgrading
<ubotu> Malone bug 87941 in network-manager "network-manager does not take into account static configurations *properly* (dup-of: 82335)" [High,Confirmed] 
<ubotu> Malone bug 82335 in network-manager "network-manager should not set offline mode when it manages no device" [High,Fix released] 
<Mithrandir> bdmurray: s/confuses/makes NM ignore the interface/, yes.
<mdz> I guess that's a different issue
<fabbione> and n-m breaks ipv6
<bdmurray> and does the upgrade process take this into account at all?
<iwj> Is there something controversial here ?  (Still loading bugs pages over gprs ...)
<mdz> bdmurray: I think we need to take this to ubuntu-devel
<Mithrandir> fabbione: that's something I don't really worry or care about release-wise.
<fabbione> Mithrandir: it's a regression from edgy so you do care..
<Mithrandir> fabbione: no, I don't.  Just don't use NM if you're one of the ten people in the world using IPv6.
<mdz> bdmurray: I think the short answer is that the UI should make it obvious when NM is ignoring the interface due to manual configuration, and allow the user to get quick access to the checkbox to set it back to automatic
<fabbione> Mithrandir: i can't remove NM without removing ubuntu-desktop..
<bdmurray> mdz: why is that? I'm trying to understand what is appropriate for the distro-team vs ubuntu-devel
<Mithrandir> fabbione: you can disable it.
<Mithrandir> mdz: yes, I'm going to tweak NM to do that.
<cjwatson> bdmurray: distro-team => private
<mdz> bdmurray: distro-team = Canonical, ubuntu-devel = Ubuntu developers
<fabbione> Mithrandir: last time i asked you how to, you told me you couldn't..
<Keybuk> Mithrandir: 10 is on the generous side
<Mithrandir> fabbione: rm /etc/dbus/event.d/25NetworkManager
<mdz> bdmurray: it's not that it's inappropriate for this meeting, it's that we only have 5 minutes left and can't discuss it in that time
<bdmurray> mdz: okay, that's fair
<Mithrandir> bdmurray: I'll be happy to discuss it further with you, I don't think it's important for the whole team?
<mdz> ACTION: bdmurray to summarize network-manager/ifupdown issues on ubuntu-devel for further discussion
<mdz> (cjwatson) Bug day on Friday: distro team participation
<cjwatson> just a reminder to everyone, since last Friday was beta day
<cjwatson> it's not actually been announced on u-d-a apparently - dholbach?
<mdz> cjwatson: reminder to what?  join #ubuntu-bugs?
<dholbach> I thought it was... bdmurray?
<cjwatson> but anyway, distro team staff should make an effort to turn up on #ubuntu-bugs and be a bit more vocal about what you're doing to stimulate discussion and educate people
<cjwatson> and generally help out
<cjwatson> done
<mdz> the community QA team seems to be growing and healthy
<iwj> I could volunteer our poor tender bug helpers to help with bug 75681.
<ubotu> Malone bug 75681 in mdadm "boot-time race condition initializing md" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/75681
<iwj> (ducks)
<mdz> I'm seeing good actions from new members
<mdz> iwj: talking about problems like that during bug days will increase awareness of the problems and how to debug them
<mdz> ok
<cjwatson> iwj: you could certainly talk them through your thought processes trying to debug it, although they might run away :)
<dholbach> cjwatson: apparently it was not announced, I'll whip something up
<mdz> (tkamppeter) I am searching volunteers for HPLIP 1.7.3 testing
<iwj> cjwatson: :-)
<mdz> tkamppeter: my OfficeJet is in a shipping crate somewhere between here and London
<tkamppeter> See bug 98520
<ubotu> Malone bug 98520 in hplip "Feisty UVF ER: New HPLIP 1.7.3 release fixes lots of bugs" [Medium,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/98520
<Keybuk> my LaserJet doesn't appear to work with HPLIP
<bdmurray> I have one here I can test
<tkamppeter> HPLIP 1.7.3 has many fixes to bugs reported to us.
<bdmurray> in my spare time
<tkamppeter> As we are shortly before releasing, we need test reports from as many people as possible.
<mdz> tkamppeter: send mail to ubuntu-devel-discuss
<mdz> that's where you can reach people who are running feisty
<doko> tkamppeter: 1.7.3 works for me, scanning included
<mdz> adventurous sorts
<mdz> Mithrandir: beta blockers?
<mdz> (last week's actions)
<tkamppeter> So please do the tests described in my 2nd and 3rd posting and post your results to the bug report.
<cjwatson> if that's not done, it's irrelevant :P
<mdz> bdmurray: wiki documentation cleanup?
<Mithrandir> mdz: too many, but going down, slowly.  I have utterly forgot to send out the list, so I'll do that tomorrow.
<cjwatson> unless s/beta/release/
<tkamppeter> Thanks for your help.
<mdz> cjwatson: yes, we still have blockers :-)
<bdmurray> mdz: I slipped on that but am working on it actively now
<mdz> ok
<mdz> Mithrandir: please send that out tomorrow
<mdz> any other VERY BRIEF business?
<Mithrandir> mdz: will do.
<mdz> adjourned
<mdz> thanks, all
<pitti> thanks everyone
<asac> thanks
<iwj> Goodnight and thank you.
<bdmurray> thanks
<mvo> thanks
<BenC> good night everyone
<kwwii> night all, thanks
<seb128> thank you
<pkl_> good night
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-03-30
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 01 Apr 20:00 UTC: Marketing Team | 02 Apr 15:00 UTC: Community question time | 03 Apr 11:00 UTC: Community Council | 03 Apr 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 03 Apr 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team | 04 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<poningru> !schedule New_York
<poningru> @schedule New_York
<ubotu> Schedule for America/New_York: 01 Apr 16:00: Marketing Team | 02 Apr 11:00: Community question time | 03 Apr 07:00: Community Council | 03 Apr 11:00: Kernel Team | 03 Apr 14:00: Mozilla Team | 04 Apr 08:00: Edubuntu
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 01 Apr 20:00 UTC: Marketing Team | 02 Apr 15:00 UTC: Community Question Time | 03 Apr 11:00 UTC: Community Council | 03 Apr 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 03 Apr 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team | 04 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-03-31
<ranf> bug #6097
<ubotu> Malone bug 6097 in prismstumbler "Menu item installed for prismstumbler points to wrong place" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/6097
<ranf> bug #95005
<ubotu> Malone bug 95005 in Ubuntu "[need-packaging]  MMS" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/95005
<poningru> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 01 Apr 20:00: Marketing Team | 02 Apr 15:00: Community Question Time | 03 Apr 11:00: Community Council | 03 Apr 15:00: Kernel Team | 03 Apr 18:00: Mozilla Team | 04 Apr 12:00: Edubuntu
<ScottK> @schedule New_York
<ubotu> Schedule for America/New_York: 01 Apr 16:00: Marketing Team | 02 Apr 11:00: Community Question Time | 03 Apr 07:00: Community Council | 03 Apr 11:00: Kernel Team | 03 Apr 14:00: Mozilla Team | 04 Apr 08:00: Edubuntu
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-04-01
<poningru> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 01 Apr 20:00: Marketing Team | 02 Apr 15:00: Community Question Time | 03 Apr 11:00: Community Council | 03 Apr 15:00: Kernel Team | 03 Apr 18:00: Mozilla Team | 04 Apr 12:00: Edubuntu
<poningru> @schedule EDT
<poningru> ...
<poningru> @schedule EST
<ubotu> Schedule for EST: 01 Apr 15:00: Marketing Team | 02 Apr 10:00: Community Question Time | 03 Apr 06:00: Community Council | 03 Apr 10:00: Kernel Team | 03 Apr 13:00: Mozilla Team | 04 Apr 07:00: Edubuntu
<poningru> @time
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: April 01 2007, 12:40:47 - Next meeting: Marketing Team in 7 hours 19 minutes
<poningru> @time EST
<jsgotangco> @schedule manila
<ubotu> Current time in EST: April 01 2007, 07:40:54 - Next meeting: Marketing Team in 7 hours 19 minutes
<ubotu> Schedule for Asia/Manila: 02 Apr 04:00: Marketing Team | 02 Apr 23:00: Community Question Time | 03 Apr 19:00: Community Council | 03 Apr 23:00: Kernel Team | 04 Apr 02:00: Mozilla Team | 04 Apr 20:00: Edubuntu
<poningru> grrr
<jsgotangco> hmm nice scheds for me this week
<poningru> @schedule New York
<ubotu> Schedule for America/New_York: 01 Apr 16:00: Marketing Team | 02 Apr 11:00: Community Question Time | 03 Apr 07:00: Community Council | 03 Apr 11:00: Kernel Team | 03 Apr 14:00: Mozilla Team | 04 Apr 08:00: Edubuntu
<adamant1988> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 01 Apr 20:00: Marketing Team | 02 Apr 15:00: Community Question Time | 03 Apr 11:00: Community Council | 03 Apr 15:00: Kernel Team | 03 Apr 18:00: Mozilla Team | 04 Apr 12:00: Edubuntu
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Marketing Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 02 Apr 15:00 UTC: Community Question Time | 03 Apr 11:00 UTC: Community Council | 03 Apr 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 03 Apr 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team | 04 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
* jenga looks around
* meatballhat hides behind tree
* adamant1988 is present!
<Knightlust> hehe
* meatballhat surfaces from forest ...  "Here"
<jenga> Well, where do we start...
<meatballhat> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Meetings    <--  agenda
<jenga> My item is first on the list... w00t
<jenga> :)
<jenga> The DIY site...
<adamant1988> Haha
<jenga> ...is currently waiting for beuno to push his code.
<jenga> :)
<jenga> (blame diverted)
* meatballhat waits ....  /pongs blame back to beuno again  ;-)
<jenga> Once that happens, meatballhat will add the finishing touches to the interface... correct?
<meatballhat> jenga: you want to take the lead on where it's headed, function-wise ...
<meatballhat> then I can go over design stuff  ?
<juliux> what is with a who is who round?
<juliux> evening btw;)
<adamant1988> what?
<meatballhat> juliux: yo  ;-)
<jenga> meatballhat: hmm, we should probably discuss that sometime thoroughly, in -marketing?
<jenga> juliux: ok :
* jenga is jenda, slightly disguised
<meatballhat> jenga: okie doke ... my bit is pretty short ;-)
* jenga leads the DIY project, and is fully responsible for it not being done yet...
<jenga> ...although it's actualy martin's fault...
* jenga runs
<meatballhat> heehee ....aawwwwww
<adamant1988> haha
* meatballhat takes some blame, too  ;-)
<jenga> OK, once we have the site up technically, which shouldn't take too long... (right, meatballhat?)
<jenga> ...we can start adding the content.
<jenga> There will be about 4 basic sections
<jenga> Some of them already have some content ready, and some will require a lot of legwork to scrounge content from the interweb and our brains...
<juliux> jenga, i will add the content of the german locoteam
<jenga> I recently posted an email to the list which explained into more detail which section is which.
<jenga> What I would need most from you, the team...
<jenga> is to help create content for the most-important HOWTOs section.
<jenga> It should contain various tips as to what one can do to spread Ubuntu.
<beuno> here
<jenga> boredandblogging has started collecting a few items, mostly conference appearances and the like.
<boredandblogging> especially successful campaigns to spread the word
<jenga> However, I'd like to have short articles of sorts after which the reader can exclaim "I can do that too!"
<jenga> Hmm...
* jenga looks for his speech paper...
<jenga> ah, it's quite blank after this point :)
<beuno> I sent an email on a "quick n dirty solution" to get the DIY site up
<beuno> I didn't get any feedback on that
<beuno> should I take it as a "do whatever you want"?
<jenga> beuno: I didn't understand it :)
<meatballhat> beuno: how long ago was this??  /me is lost
<jenga> beuno: because I don't rightly understand what your task is
<jenga> :D
<Admiral_Chicago> neither did I. net sure why the page is being changed
<beuno> yesterday
<beuno> no, dirday
* meatballhat bops self on head  
<beuno> *friday
<beuno> dog licked my elbow
* jenga only understands that you and Dan shouldda made the site work ;)
* jenga hides
<jenga> :)
<beuno> haha
<beuno> jenga: the website is working, all that needs to be done is a user-friendly way of adding content to it
<jenga> oooh
<jenga> ok
<jenga> that's great news.
<beuno> which means I can add content in a non-user friendly way
<beuno> :D
<beuno> which was what I meant in my email
<beuno> I can load everything that's floating around
<meatballhat> beuno: is a current version pushed/ftp'd ?
<jenga> beuno: aaah :)
<beuno> so we have an actual working site, just not easy to maintain
<jenga> ok, that's really good news.
<jenga> So, yes, it'd be great if you could throw all the content we have ready on there.
<beuno> meatballhat: still have some changes to push, but since they broke some stuff, I'm waiting to fix it :D
<jenga> This mean, practically the entire Get section can be done already.
<jenga> *means
<meatballhat> beuno: okay ... you tell me when I can jump in and do major housekeeping
<jenga> beuno: hint, waiting won't fix it ;)
* jenga ducks
* jenga stares at jeang's nick
<beuno> jenga: yes it will, you should get into programming and find out for yourself...  ;)
<jenga> hehe
* beuno waits for jenga to take the bait
* jenga takes a detour around the hook
<meatballhat> beuno, jenga ... okay ... SO ... once the "functional" parts are done ...
<jenga> anyway...
<beuno> meatballhat: I can add all the content on now after the meeting, and if nothing breaks, you should be able to fiddle with ther webpage all you want
<beuno> *the
<jenga> beuno: that'd be swell... I think the Print section will have to wait till there is a simple way to add the content, as there'll be many items on that list... and the Howto section has no content to add yet...
<jenga> and neither does the design section really - except for a sketch of the guidelines, whic hisn't nearly complete.
<beuno> jenga: where can I get all the content?
<jenga> beuno: DIYWebsite/Get
<jenga> for the get...
<jenga> DIYWebsite/Guidelines for the guidelines...
<meatballhat> beuno: also .... when you say that the site is working, are you referring to your local copy? ... should we be seeing changes on the main site :  diy.devubuntu.com  ?
<beuno> meatballhat: online, diy.devubuntu.com
<meatballhat> beuno: what about the imagemagick stuff?
<poningru> @schedule New york
<ubotu> Schedule for America/New_York: Current meeting: Marketing Team | 02 Apr 11:00: Community Question Time | 03 Apr 07:00: Community Council | 03 Apr 11:00: Kernel Team | 03 Apr 14:00: Mozilla Team | 04 Apr 08:00: Edubuntu
<poningru> gaah
<poningru> thats great
* jenga has no idea about that...
<poningru> two meetings I almost misseed
<beuno> meatballhat: I'm just going to add the content for now, so we have some sort of website working
<meatballhat> beuno: so be it  ...  :D
<beuno> then I'll try to get back to the "I broke everything" part of the php code
<jenga> This is the part where you always lose me, but that's OK :)
<meatballhat> jenga: onward!
<jenga> I'm done.
<jenga> Pretty much.
<meatballhat> my part now?  :)
<jenga> I'll just ephasize one more time that we need help with writing the Howtos
<beuno> actually, "UWN more exposure" bit is up
<jenga> Anyone who'd be interested, please _do_ contact me or the team after the meeting.
<poningru> jenga: re:?
<poningru> the website?
* meatballhat says:  "The DIY Marketing site, upon completion of the functional bits, will be completely re-skinned to imitate ubuntu.com in its current Drupal version"
<jenga> beuno: not unless meatballhat is on about the DIY site ;)
<beuno> right
<jenga> poningru: yes, the DIY/Spreadubuntu website.
<poningru> ok
* meatballhat is done with bit
<jenga> meatballhat: ah, cool
<beuno> meatballhat: that sounds like fun...  I have the original drupal template if you need it
<meatballhat> beuno: no need as we aren't using Drupal ;-)  ... our approch will be a bit different
<meatballhat> *approach
<beuno> I know, but maybe the CSS and such... well, I have it anyway  :p
<beuno> meatballhat: I'll add the content right after the meeting
<beuno> then you can fiddle around the website all you want, I'll only work on the backend
<meatballhat> beuno: thanks all the same ... good...  we'll get this done before April 19th if it kills us
<beuno> yeap, I agree
<jenga> good :)
<beuno> I'll kill us
* poningru kills meatballhat preemptively
<beuno> :D
<jenga> I like the idea of dead people around the Marketing Team.
<jenga> It gives a whole new light to the 'humanity to others'
<adamant1988> jenga: Corpses aren't appealing
* meatballhat had a Phoenix Down equipped ... is revived
<poningru> rofl
* meatballhat "phew"
<beuno> ok, meatballhat, I'll ping you as soon as I'm done
<jenga> hmm
<poningru> err brb
<beuno> anymore on the "DIY beuno-I-hate-you" subject?
<jenga> umm...
* meatballhat is out of ammo
* Vorian hands a clip to meatballhat 
<jenga> well, I was going to close the subject of DIY and move on to the beuno-I-hate-you one, but since you say it's done...
<jenga> :)
<beuno> aaaaw...
<jenga> Anything else regarding DIY? hmm? Can we move on to the UWN?
<beuno> ok, good, I'll hurry before Burgundavia thinks of something
<beuno> "How to give the UWN more exposure?"
<Knightlust> bueno: Digg. Digg-people love to, well, digg on any news that has the word Ubuntu on it. They'll surely check UWN.
<adamant1988> I move to move onto the UWN
* elcasey seconds
<adamant1988> What are we doing right now to give the UWN exposure?
<Burgundavia> sorry I am late, gf made me breakfast
<Knightlust> sorry, has to be moved first
<beuno> jenga: you where trying to get it on the Ubuntu main page?
* jenga has made two moves to give the UWN more exposure - neither of which has been completed yet...
<jenga> 1) get it on all the Ubuntu pages under the News at the top right
<jenga> That's waiting for Matt Nuzum to reply...
<boredandblogging> can we put a link on the ubuntu.com homepage
<beuno> Knightlust: you mean submit it to digg every week?
<adamant1988> boredandblogging: I like that idea, an easy to fill out subscription form.
<jenga> He said that he can see a case for it to be there, but there are already too many things there, maybe...
<adamant1988> just give it your email addy and get the UWN
<Knightlust> no, yeah, well, someone should post it there. assign it to someone
<jenga> 2) get a sticky on the ubuntuforums
<jenga> The forums staff isn't too keen on this. I'll try fighting harder.
<Vorian> jenga, I'll help you out on that front :)
<jenga> The un-sticky thread has had 300 views so far.
<jenga> Vorian++ ;)
<beuno> any thoughts on the "straight to digg" proposal?
<Vorian> thats a good idea beuno
<jenga> What does it require?
<adamant1988> I don't see the harm in adding it to digg, since Digg is like the viral rabid off-shoot of the Ubuntu community
<boredandblogging> could we post to digg and send out an email to the general mailing list?
<jenga> It probably can't harm anything.
<jenga> yeap... ;)
<adamant1988> jenga: a link and a small quote from the UWN and it'll take off.
<jenga> Who'll do it
<jenga> ?
<jenga> Volunteers? :)
<beuno> boredandblogging: it's already being submited to the ubuntu-news mailing list
<adamant1988> We can just take turns, I can add it if you guys like
<beuno> I can do it
<beuno> well
<adamant1988> It takes like 3 seconds to put an article on Digg.
<jenga> adamant1988: would it have to be done for every issue?
<beuno> adamant1988: if you can be around every sunday to make sure, I'd prefer you do it  :D
<boredandblogging> doesn't the ubuntu-general have the most subscribers? that might get the most eyeballs
<adamant1988> beuno: I am around every sunday, just tell me what time in eastern you would like it to pop up
<beuno> adamant1988: as soon as it's released  :D
<jenga> it'd be best if one person had that as their set task...
<meatballhat> (beuno needs a lighter plate!  somebody other than beuno do it, pleeeeease.)
<adamant1988> jenga: We could do it every issue, yes.
<poningru> do what now?
<jenga> (eg., I'll make sure every UWN gets posted on the forums, sticky or not)
<jenga> poningru: digg the UWN
<adamant1988> Ok, so I'll make sure about posting it every sunday
<poningru> oh will do
<poningru> ok I will do the digging
<poningru> and the redditing
<poningru> and the slashdotting
<adamant1988> poningru: I'm adding it to digg
<poningru> err maybe not the latter
<Knightlust> why not just one guy posting it on forums, news on frontpage, digg, etc. and a backup just in case...
<adamant1988> That's my task unless you want it.
<jenga> poningru: too late, adamant1988 took it ;)
<poningru> no wai you can have it dude ;P
<Vorian> a planet post wouldn't hurt
<jenga> poningru: you're lagged ;)
<adamant1988> Query: Is the UWN released as an email newsletter?
<Knightlust> adamant1988 as the 1st person, and then assign a backup
<beuno> Vorian: I'm posting on the planet  :D
<poningru> adamant1988: yes
<beuno> starting last one, #33
<poningru> yeah I'll be the backup to adamant1988
<Vorian> beuno, :)
<beuno> great
<jenga> A planet post won't hurt, unless it seems ... well, too much :)
<Vorian> kewl
<jenga> We already have it on the fridge...
<adamant1988> Teh fridge should be enough
<poningru> yeah I think a link to fridge should be good
<poningru> on planet
<jenga> OR we can just go that way till someone complains... ;)
<poningru> dont put the entire thing on planet
<poningru> just a link...
<jenga> of course
<jenga> that would kill the planet :)
<jenga> but...
<beuno> poningru: http://beuno.com.ar/archives/7
<jenga> well...
<jenga> is the UWN something that belongs on the planet?
<Vorian> jenga, for sure!
<jenga> the planet is meant to be more for the blogs of the folks, no...?
<mc44> jenga: just blog the seperate sections :p
<adamant1988> jenga: I don't really think so.
<jenga> I don't think so either.
<jenga> That's why we have the planet and the fridge.
* Vorian nods at mc44 
<adamant1988> the planet is more informal, not the best place to put the UWN link
<poningru> jenga: btw fix your nick man I get confused every 5 min or so
<beuno> the post can be informal...  :D
<adamant1988> Now, if planet members want to post a response to the UWN that might be good.
<jenga> And linking to it every week could get annoying...
<poningru> I think we should do it on the planet
<jenga> I think we shouldn't :)
<Burgundavia> no, planet is not a good planet to have the actually content
<Burgundavia> but feel free to say it is out
<jenga> Burgundavia: every single time?
<adamant1988> jenga: I think encouraging the planet members to blog about the UWN (a specific portion) that's not a bad idea
<poningru> Burgundavia: not the content dude just a link
<jenga> adamant1988: true
<jenga> adamant1988: but not a 'the UWN is out again' every week
<beuno> wasn't that what I posted?  quick link and a summary?
<beuno> ir should it be shorter?
<adamant1988> jenga: Having the planet members expressing their opinion on an article in the UWN isn't a bad idea IMO
<poningru> beuno: no that was perfect imho
<jenga> adamant1988: opinions would be great...
<Vorian> all we would have to post is "uwn 58 is out and its awesome!  link..."
<poningru> 0.0
<adamant1988> jenga: That way it meets the theme of the planet and it gets the word out
<poningru> 58 eek
<jenga> wouldn't something like a commentary to a specific article be better?
<jenga> adamant1988++
<Vorian> poningru, :)
<jenga> (we'll never get to 58 ;))
<poningru> :p
<beuno> jenga: we might if you start doing daliy releases!
<beuno> that won't annoy anyone...
<poningru> lol
<adamant1988> Ubuntu Weekly News! DAILY!
<jenga> (I think we should go to 42 and number all releases from then on 42)
<boredandblogging> lol
<poningru> lol
<beuno> haha
<Vorian> jenga, nice plan..
<adamant1988> jenga: 42 makes the world go round
<jenga> k... back to the topic...
<adamant1988> So, to summarize we're going to try for a link on Ubuntu.com?
<adamant1988> Digg it
<adamant1988> Forum posts
<poningru> we are? re: ubuntu.com?
<beuno> ok, so far we have:  straight to digg and reddit, small post on the planet, trying to get it on ubuntu.com front page, and sticky on the forum
<Knightlust> also design a cool UWN logo, something really attractive and catchy, that way bloggers can put it up on their blogs/sites. just make sure it points a single wikipage where all the links to a UWN are listed.
<adamant1988> and specific-article commentary on the planet?
<jenga> Don't y'all pro-planetars think we should aim for a more personal type reaction than just 'it's out' on the planet?
<jenga> poningru: yes, i'm working on that.
<adamant1988> jenga: I agree, but I'm not on the planet
<adamant1988> :(
<jenga> Knightlust: I'd be careful about logos.
<poningru> jenga: did you talk to matt?
<Vorian> who here posts on the planet?
<jenga> Knightlust: I think we should stick with the UBuntu logo.
<beuno> jenga: whats prong with this:   http://beuno.com.ar/archives/7
<jenga> poningru: yes.
<beuno> wrong
<poningru> beuno: you dont have enough prongs
<Knightlust> jenga, just something attractive that'll catch someones attention
<jenga> beuno: nothing
<jenga> beuno: but every week?
<boredandblogging> besides digg and reddit, are there any other avenues to let non-Ubuntu users know about it? the planet, forums, and ubuntu.com will only attract existing ubuntu users. Or is that the purpose?
<poningru> jenga: dude... sunday... slow day of the week
<jenga> Knightlust: that's what the fridge is for, I think...
<beuno> boredandblogging: that's the idea
<adamant1988> beuno: What we're saying is that works but you can (and should) pick out a specific article and talk about it in a blog post
<jenga> Knightlust: the UWN aims for the conciseness and can cope very well with a simple form.
<beuno> adamant1988: absolutely, I'll pick something I like and comment on it
<adamant1988> beuno: That way it's better than "Hey the UWN is out!11111!!!!11!" every weekl
<beuno> like "number of bugs are down, great work Bug Triage team"
<jenga> boredandblogging: the UWN is mostly of interest to insiders, anyway.
<jenga> boredandblogging: it's its purpose.
<boredandblogging> fair enough
<jenga> The UBuntu Magazine was intended for outsiders... but that project died.
<beuno> I've got a quick question...
<boredandblogging> ubuntu magazine? that sounds cool
<beuno> for those you use RSS
<adamant1988> jenga: We can probably get that going again, and put it in a monthly fashion
<Knightlust> aha, jenga, why not revive the ubuntu magazine then
<adamant1988> If you would like to get that started I'd be happy to head that.
<beuno> wouldn't a "UWN Blog" with RSS be usefull?
<beuno> post the actual content to the blog
<jenga> adamant1988, Knightlust, boredandblogging - let's return to the idea of the mag later on.
<beuno> so you can have it on RSS
<adamant1988> jenga: sure.
<Knightlust> hehe
<adamant1988> beuno: I get my Ubuntu News RSS from the fridge
<jenga> It's a good idea, if someone pulls it off.
<jenga> beuno: me too
<beuno> adamant1988: but it's a small summary, not the actualy UWN
<beuno> I hate having to click away from my bloglines
<Burgundavia> there is work on the fridge, to allow the community to submit stories, ala slashdot
<adamant1988> beuno: I understand, I just think it's kind of a duplication of efforts
<jenga> beuno: so we should set up an UWN RSS feed?
<poningru> oh most def
<poningru> wait dont we already have that?
<jenga> Burgundavia: I hope it doesn't make the traffic on fridge unreadable.
<jenga> Burgundavia: eg. I can read the entire fridge, but I don't read the planet anymore, there's ust too much.
<Burgundavia> theree is a UWN specific rss feed at the fridge
<poningru> right
<beuno> ok, then I'll add that link to the UWN itself so it's easier to find
<jenga> NOTE: New topic added at the end of the meeting: Ubuntu Magazine (as some people are obviously interested)
<jenga> Burgundavia: aha, that settles that, then.
<jenga> yes, add it to the UWN.
<jenga> :)
<adamant1988> So, we've settled on some more we can do for the UWN.  Want to see how far that takes us before we start adding more things to the list?
<beuno> Burgundavia: where's the link?
* jenga doesn't understand?
<boredandblogging> does anyone know how often people are actually reading the UWN?
<Burgundavia> beuno: no idea
<beuno> not really no, and it's going hard to find out since it gets published in so many places...
<jenga> yep
<jenga> but we know that people who read it really, really like it.
<adamant1988> Anything we can do to figure out how many readers we're talking about?
<jenga> Especially members and other community regulars, as it keeps them up-to-date
<jenga> (with the rest of the community)
<beuno> adamant1988: good topic to add to the next meeting   :D
<jenga> indeed.
<adamant1988> beuno: I'll note that it needs added to the list for the next meeting
<beuno> great
<beuno> so, adamant1988 is going to digg the UWN, and poningru is backup, right?
<poningru> beuno: yes
<beuno> should we add a "digg this" on the UWN?
<jenga> yes
<adamant1988> poningru: is incharge of slashdot and reddit
<beuno> that way you guys know if the other submited it
<adamant1988> as I don't have accounts for either
<beuno> and we might get a few more diggs
<beuno> ok, I'll add it to the template
<poningru> eeeh
<beuno> the rest is for you guys to find out and document on the /UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/EditingPolicies  page
<poningru> I dont know if I like it
<poningru> the digg this thing
<jenga> why?
<adamant1988> I think adding a digg button to the UWN actually might be a decent way to gauge how many readers the UWN has.
<adamant1988> or at least get a decent estimate
<beuno> adamant1988: I don't think so
<poningru> I dont know it adds the whole lets follow the web 2.0 thing
<poningru> yeah too many other sources of readers
<boredandblogging> i'm not sure digg helps if insiders are the target audience, it really wouldn't hurt though
<beuno> Burgundavia: you're handeling the inmediate post to the fridge, right?
<Burgundavia> yes
<beuno> great
<adamant1988> beuno: What I mean is if the button is right in the article itself and it's clickable, that gives at least an idea, right?
<jenga> is 'digg this' a button, or can it be a link?
<jenga> if we could add it as a link at the bottom, it'd be unobtrusive...
<beuno> jenga: link
<Burgundavia> digg this sounds like a good trial idea
<jenga> yeah - let's try it :)
<adamant1988> So let's add it for a couple issues and see what happens.
<beuno> yes, it shouldn't be "DIGD THIS PLEASE OMG" kind of link
<beuno> good
<adamant1988> Just add the little counter link to the article
<beuno> I'll add it to the template + uwn 34
<jenga> cool
<beuno> adamant1988: no, no counter, just a small link
<adamant1988> beuno: OK
<beuno> ok, great
<beuno> the last thing I think needs attention with UWN
<beuno> is promoting Ubuntu communities to participate more and send or add stories to it
<jenga> hmm
<beuno> it seems they really don't participate too much in the process
<jenga> how?
<adamant1988> beuno: I think there's a number of issues with that... part of it is that the Wiki is a pain in the butt to edit (and a little scary) if you're not familar with the syntax
<beuno> I don't mind adding it for them
<adamant1988> Perhaps we should create an @ubuntu.com mail addy for people to send stories to?
<beuno> but, for example, the "LoCo News" section is empty this week
<adamant1988> Then all they have to do is send the stories in, we prune through them for the gems and add them
<beuno> and I'm pretty sure *something* has to have happend in some LoCo
<jenga> I think that we'll only be recruiting new UWN'ers from UWN readers anyway, so a 'help the UWN' should suffice at the end of the UWN itself... and we sohuld concentrate more on 'read the UWN' out there.
<poningru> yeah jenga++
<poningru> dude fix your nick...
<adamant1988> jenga: Well, I think a link at the bottom "Got a story for us? Send it!"
<adamant1988> wouldn't hurt
<jenga> beuno: you can add that Canonical approved my request and sent me a huge crate of CDs and a conference pack ;)
<adamant1988> just set up an email addy to catch all those
<jenga> poningru: you can /nick to ponindru to compensate ;)
<beuno> jenda: send me pics!  that isn't such a bad story
<jenda> hehe
<jenda> I don't have a camera
<jenda> And I don't have teh conference pack yet, just the CDs ;) and besides, we don't need to discuss it at the meeting ;)
<jenda> Has everyone died, suddenly? Is it my breath?
<beuno> ok
<jenda> ah, good.
<jenda> :)
<Burgundavia> adding a "send us a story" is an excellent idea
<adamant1988>  A little
<jenda> hehe
<adamant1988> Burgundavia: thanks
<adamant1988> :P
<Burgundavia> why not a list ala fridge-devel?
<jenda> I think so too
<jenda> Burgundavia++
<Burgundavia> basically, not publicly archived, but allows free posting?
<jenda> Who will do it?
<jenda> yep
<adamant1988> jenda: I suggested it :P
<beuno> Burgundavia++
<jenda> adamant1988: you'll do it?
<adamant1988> jenda: If you want me to catch all the emails for you and prune them, I'll do that
<jenda> adamant1988: get us a mailing list set up for that purpose? weekly-newsletter@ubuntu.com?
<Burgundavia> well, if we have a mailing list, we can add/remove people as needed
<jenda> :)
<jenda> adamant1988: no, set up a list
<jenda> (or @lists.ubuntu.com)
<adamant1988> jenda: I don't think a list is so good.
<Burgundavia> there is a generic mail link
<jenda> adamant1988: it works great for the fridge.
<Burgundavia> adamant1988: have you seen fridge-devel?
<adamant1988> jenda: Ok then
<jenda> adamant1988: it's certainly better than one of us to be doing it.
<poningru> mmhm
<adamant1988> Burgundavia: Nope, whatever works though.  As long as people don't have to subscribe to it to send in articles
<beuno> adamant1988: you have to contact the lists admin for that to get setup
<nixternal> d'oh!
* nixternal had company
<poningru> pwnt
<adamant1988> Do you guys want me to talk to the lists admin to work on setting this up?
<Burgundavia> yep
<adamant1988> Or would someone with more pull prefer to do it?
<jenda> nixternal: you're late, you can't join now ;)
<poningru> there is no pull there dude they will do it
<adamant1988> poningru: Ok, I'll add that to my list of things to do then
<nixternal> sounds good to me ;p
* nixternal gets back to some KDE work ;p
<jenda> nixternal: no way, you aren't going anywhere :)
<nixternal> to late, already there ;p
<nixternal> what have I missed?
<beuno> ok, UWN done?
<Burgundavia> yep
<adamant1988> I think we've about beat that horse to death, yes.
<beuno> still have a long way to go...
<beuno> adamant1988: you're up
<adamant1988> Ok
<jenda> nixternal: DIY and UWN
<poningru> !agenda
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about agenda - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<poningru> where is the agenda?
<adamant1988> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/JobBoard  I added this spec to the list some time ago
<jenda> it's adamant's turn now :)
<adamant1988> But I'm still trying to get some assistance doing this (needs a LOT of work done)
<jenda> adamant1988: first it needs a lot of planning ;)
<adamant1988> jenda: I count that as work ;)
<poningru> ;)
<jenda> adamant1988: I'm still not convinced it is needed...
<poningru> jenda: totally dude
<adamant1988> jenda: I think it would be beneficial to a LOT of groups and not just us
<jenda> oook ;)
* nixternal notes that a "Job List" or a "Todo List" has never worked with the Marketing teams of yesteryear
<poningru> what we need is all the teams to put up their to do list there
<jenda> nixternal: mhm :)
<adamant1988> nixternal: That's been tried?
<poningru> adamant1988: it has... a while ago
<nixternal> adamant1988: more than one could have ever imagined
<adamant1988> Well, if you guys think that the idea is faulty then feel free to go ahead and shoot it down
<nixternal> jenda had a nice one a year ago, then he had another nice one, and then I think there was one more with some added jobs, and DIY seems to be the only one carried forth
<adamant1988> I think that the basic idea is good, but if the time-cost/benefit ratio isn't going to work out then we can dedicate our resources to something else
<jenda> hehehe
<boredandblogging> if people want to get involved, they'll ask for stuff to do
<nixternal> boredandblogging: ditto
<adamant1988> nixternal: Well my thought on the matter was more like a "community launchpad" so people can track progress on projects and so forth
<Knightlust> imho, it'll work as long as there's a good leadership, just need someone to oversee the tasks and be responsible for it
<jenda> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/spreadubuntu/+spec/to-do-list
<jenda> adamant1988: ^
<adamant1988> jenda: So we can just add projects to the launchpad then?
<nixternal> although I think it would be positive if someone new to the community could at least have a solid list of available topics they could research/work on instead of coming into #ubuntu-marketing and being confronted by someone who may not know
<adamant1988> nixternal: that's part of what it's for
<adamant1988> "want to get involved? LINK. Pick something"
<jenda> adamant1988: I believe the old 'speradubuntu' product can be used as a basis for marketing team specs
<jenda> adamant1988: but I linked to my oooold spec there.
<nixternal> it would also be nice to take suggestions from the mailing list and put them into an idea pool as well. there are a lot of good ideas I have seen on the list that get the nose turned for the time being because it a) doesn't work right now, or b) people don't understand the idea and how to implement it correctly
* nixternal gets back on topic
<beuno> I think the idea is good, it just requieres much more commitement to specific tasks for people, and I'm not sure if that's possible
<adamant1988> beuno: I think once it becomes a process it would be OK.  When you want the marketing team to do soemthing you add the spec
<adamant1988> Just like if you want the Devels to do something, etc.
<jenda> so... what did we reach so far?
<jenda> It's been tried, and is not an easy thing to do...
<jenda> ...but would definitely be useful...
<adamant1988> jenda: Well, I'm willing to put in the work to help this happen, but I won't be able to do it alone by any regard.
<beuno> adamant1988: maybe you can start nagging everyone to tell you what tasks they do
<jenda> adamant1988: of course, that's why there's a team ;)
<beuno> and get them on the wiki
<beuno> that might be a good start
<jenda> adamant1988: you can leech all of the tasks in the DIY todo list, if you like ;)
<poningru> see here's my thoughts on that
<adamant1988> jenda: I mean that if the team as a whole doesn't feel this is a good or worthwhile idea then I'm out in the dark :)
* jenda ducks
<beuno> what we actually do, and what any random user can do to help
<mc44> adamant1988: make a todo list then just put "for jenda to do" at the top :)
<jenda> adamant1988: it obviously does
<poningru> I dont know if this project should be made under the auspices of the marketing team
* jenda kicks mc44 
<beuno> ha, +1 for mc44's idea
<poningru> I think that it should be done under jono's office
<adamant1988> poningru: Well, if you see the original spec I'm proposing more of a Ubuntu Community Wide thing
<adamant1988> If A Loco wants to add something, they can add something, etc.
<poningru> right
* jenda is has a school to study and translations to do...
<jenda> :)
* poningru translates jenda 
<adamant1988> Launchpad is a great system, it's a shame it's closed.
<mc44> jenda: just trying to save the world from one more l***r
<jenda> hehe
<jenda> you're missing one 0
<jenda> *
<jenda> **
<jenda> :)
<mc44> yeah oops :)
<jenda> (sorry for flood)
<adamant1988> But if it's not worth the time then we shouldn't do it.  We can do something better with the time
<beuno> adamant1988: I think it's wortht he time, I just don't know if we have it  :D
<adamant1988> beuno: Perhaps put this off for a while and see if resources make themselves available?
<beuno> I certainly can't help out right now, as meatballhat so kinly reminded me before
<adamant1988> We can just plan it out little by little until that happens
<beuno> adamant1988: that sounds good to me
<beuno> my recommendation is try to push it forward yourself as much as you can, don't get stuck waiting for others
<adamant1988> alright, I'll start doing some more research, polling the LoCo forums, etc. and checking for any kind of demand.
<adamant1988> If the demand for something like this is there, then I'll come back and push it harder
<beuno> adamant1988: I believe the demand is their, you just need to get it started
<jenda> there is lots of demand
<beuno> maybe start recruiting
<jenda> there's lots of 'can I help'
<adamant1988> beuno: I need some help ont he planning as this is beyond the scope of what I can do.
<adamant1988> It requires either it's own system or a modification on Launchpad, etc.
<jenda> and if we can answer even half those 'can I help's with a ToDo list...
<jenda> adamant1988: why?
<jenda> adamant1988: why not just a wikipage?
<beuno> adamant1988: I don't think you need to use anything else then wiki + launchpad at all
<jenda> it's as simple as that, IMO...
<poningru> adamant1988: I think if you were to go to lp.net with this idea they might help you out with this
<boredandblogging> adamant1988, why not make a mockup on the wiki that the Marketing Team could edit and try out?
<jenda> adamant1988: feel free to use that old spec I linked to...
<adamant1988> jenda: A the wikis are difficult to edit and track things with.
<beuno> adamant1988: "suscribe" button works great for me to track stuff
<jenda> adamant1988: a lot easier than creating a whole new system for it.
<jenda> exatly.
<beuno> and launchpad has it's own set of tools
<adamant1988> jenda: True, but not as clean s Launchpad is.  I'll try talking to the launchpad people about it
<jenda> The wiki is a great tool, we have it, let's use it.
<jenda> hmm
<boredandblogging> the people adding to the jobboard will be comfortable with the wiki
<jenda> adamant1988: I believe that's a tech detail.
<beuno> adamant1988: don't expect to get any modificatios done to launchpad, they're over their heads right now
<adamant1988> Ok, well, I'll try it out as a wiki page first
<jenda> adamant1988: if the concept works, it'll work on the wiki too, and then we can move it to LP _once_ it's tried and true.
<adamant1988> I'll work on a template this week and see what we can do.
<beuno> adamant1988: great, you've got my support, just not much of my time  :D
<adamant1988> beuno: I'm nothing but time this week.
<adamant1988> I can probaly have a good template going without any problems.
<beuno> that would be great
<beuno> done with this topic then?
<adamant1988> It's Spring Break, bfor the rest of today and tomorrow I'll be busy but after that I'm all time
<beuno> "Community involvement in Canonical PR toward Ubuntu " is up
<adamant1988> yeah, I think we should revisit this next meeting just to check progress
<beuno> Burgundavia: has some info on this I believe
<jenda> beuno: don't give out any of your time, because I need it ;)
<Burgundavia> hm?
<Burgundavia> what canonical and we are going to do for Feisty?
<beuno> Burgundavia: didn't you phone canonical?
<jenda> adamant1988: you might want to try and salvage https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Ideas
<Burgundavia> yes, I spoke with Chris
<beuno> poningru!
<poningru> blargh?
<beuno> you brought this up, and Burgundavia talked to Chris from canonical (in charge of marketing)
<poningru> oh right the spec
<poningru> so yeah I think the email Burgundavia wrote basically summed it up:
<jenda> uh, right... so what's it about? :)
* beuno is sorry he's pushing the meeting forward, no one else seems to  :D
<poningru> the official Press release will be done by april 11th
<poningru> giving locoteams and us time to translate
<poningru> err mostly us
<poningru> I dont know if locoteams is in on this
<poningru> thats one thing we need to clarify
<beuno> poningru: maybe send an email to the translators ML?
<poningru> since its very 'secretive'
<jenda> poningru: simple, there's a mailing list for the LoCos
<poningru> no... I was thinking talk to jono
<beuno> yes, well, ML are very public...
<jenda> oooh, it's that 'confidential' thing ;)
<poningru> because this is meant to be secretive, as in the pr cannot get out before 19
<Burgundavia> the press release is not secret, it is merely embargoed
<poningru> oh...
<Burgundavia> this means it can be seen before the 19th
<beuno> maybe send an email with "if you want to translate, contact me"
<jenda> So we should contact loco leaders individually, correct?
<adamant1988> What is it about?
<poningru> hmm ok I'll email around
<jenda> adamant1988: Feisty.
<Burgundavia> all good reporters pay attention to embargoes
<poningru> right
<poningru> and we have to do the 'feature set walkthrough'
<Burgundavia> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_embargo
<Burgundavia> yep, which is mostly a touchup of the /beta page
<poningru> basically the unofficial pr
<poningru> right
<Burgundavia> basically, the language is that needs to be cleaned up and more screenshots added
<poningru> and imho we should probably finish that by 11th
<poningru> so that the translators can translate that too if needed
<poningru> s/needed/wanted
<Burgundavia> yep, taht was the plan
<poningru> so yeah I guess thats it, we have to finish up the walkthrough by 11th
<poningru> and I will email jono+translators
<poningru> to make sure they get the msg
<poningru> who's next?
<beuno> you're next and next again  :D
<jenda> hehe
<poningru> lol
<jenda> poningru: what did you mean by 'swag'?
<poningru> hmm?
<poningru> where?
* jenda always thought swag was his playground :)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 02 Apr 15:00 UTC: Community Question Time | 03 Apr 11:00 UTC: Community Council | 03 Apr 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 03 Apr 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team | 04 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 05 Apr 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<jenda> in the agenda
<jenda> O_O
<poningru> err I dont have link to agenda
<jenda> ubotu is trying to say something...
* poningru frantically searches
<jenda> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Meetings
<boredandblogging> swag as in stuff to give away?
<poningru> oh right
<jenda> boredandblogging: or sell cheaply
<poningru> I think that was just for DIY
<adamant1988> swag is nice.
<adamant1988> I vote for T-Shirt stickers
<jenda> aaahh, so The Department of Redundancy Department ;)
<adamant1988> Those Iron on things
<jenda> adamant1988: They're on my ToDo list ;)
<adamant1988> jenda: let me know when that's done ;)
<poningru> but it was more of how can we get $$$->cheaper countries
<jenda> in fact, they're what I'm after most, but didn't find anything suitable yet...
<jenda> poningru: mhm
<poningru> oh I guess the next point is redundant as well...
<adamant1988> Yeah it is.
* jenda can feel the difference between the price relations of the western world and the Czech Rep very ... nicely ... on the stickers.
<jenda> I assume thta could be made even more effective in other countries.
<poningru> right
<beuno> jenda, how about ubuntu "void" stickers   :p
<poningru> so I wanted to figure out how we can determine which country has the cheapest of everything
<jenda> beuno: wuzzat?
<jenda> poningru: that'll go hand in hand.
<jenda> poningru: because 90% of the price is always the work put in.
<poningru> like some country may have cheapest t-shirts, but another may have cheaper stickers
<poningru> hmm true
<jenda> not probable
<beuno> jenda: have you ever seen stickers on hardware, that if you remove it, the sticker breaks and "void" is writin all over?  (it's a joke though)
<jenda> hehe
<jenda> interesting..
<beuno> I think argentina probably has the cheapest prices in all that, I made tshirts for 4 us dollars
<poningru> waah?
<beuno> and I've washed them over 20 times, and the text is still perfect
<beuno> :D
<poningru> awesome
<jenda> beuno: that's good...
<jenda> beuno: we'll discuss that some time.. I'll make you massproduce that stuff ;)
<beuno> haha
<jenda> anyway, anything else regarding swag?
<beuno> I can get some sticker pricing too, but for next meeting
<poningru> nope
<jenda> I'd just like to point out that there are several people out there who have expressed interest in producing swag for the community...
<jenda> There are people thinking of shirts, iron-ons, badges, and stuff...
<jenda> :)
<poningru> yeah hopefully diymarketing will be enough to handling it
<jenda> hopefully :)
<poningru> err s/ing/e
<adamant1988> So, we've already covered the next point
<poningru> err kinda
<jenda> Some of them are in it partially for profit.
<poningru> so regarding that
<jenda> actually that's a point to discuss
<beuno> when's the next meeting?   2 weeks from now?
<jenda> What do we, Ubuntu, think about selling Ubuntu swag for a profit?
<jenda> beuno: if we get DIY out, then yes ;)
<adamant1988> jenda: as long as they make the source code available ;)
<meatballhat> +1 for for-profit
<meatballhat> :)
<jenda> I'm for that too.
<adamant1988> I have no problems with profit, particularly if it bring the marketing team some cash to play with
<beuno> I'd like to have the next meeting scheduled now  :D   Burgundavia?
<poningru> err... I wanna do the next point
<adamant1988> We need to cover the Mag too.
* beuno steps aside
<poningru> I dont think the walkthrough and the press release is enough
<jenda> adamant1988: another point...
<jenda> the marketing team HAS cash to play with.
<poningru> we do?
<jenda> I hold that cash right now, but it's intended for marketing purposes.
<jenda> poningru: the profit from the stickers and posters.
<poningru> ah gotcha
<adamant1988> jenda: aha
<jenda> it's currently about $200, and $200 can be expected from the remaining stock
<poningru> well...  dude you put effort into all of this... maybe that cash should be yours?
<beuno> +1 for poningru
<beuno> I got my stickers, with little effort, I'd be glad if jenda got some money out of it
<boredandblogging> did it just get real quiet?
<jenda> err
<jenda> poningru: no
<jenda> :)
<adamant1988> yeah it did.
<poningru> right so as long as the people put up their stuff in an open license I dont think anyone has problems with them making money off of it
<jenda> I'm happy to use that money in a useful way
<poningru> yeah like foodz
<poningru> and beer
<poningru> but thats all you can use it for
<jenda> The money is legally mine, and I'll decide what happens to it, but if an MT project could use it, don't hesitate to ask.
<jenda> heheh
<jenda> For example, if someone in a cheap country was going to produce swag, but couldn't affort the initial investment...
<jenda> that would be a worthwhile way of using it.
<poningru> hmm true
<beuno> hmmm... I have been wanting to buy a wii...  uhm... start producing swag...
<poningru> rofl
<adamant1988> great, then we have money to use towards marketing efforts
<poningru> excellent
<poningru> jenda: can I start on the next point?
<beuno> adamant1988: we "potentianlly" have money to use towards marketing efforts  :D
<adamant1988> Didn't we already cover that?
<poningru> adamant1988: no there's couple of other things I wanna do
<jenda> sure
<poningru> so yeah I wanna do more than just the press release and walkthrough
<poningru> there is the obvious
<poningru> digg, reddit, slashdot, osnews etc.
* jenda considers using the money to worthwhile-y fund his trip to Sevilla ;)
* jenda runs
<poningru> lol
<poningru> but what about getting to other websites?
<adamant1988> I saw a really awesome thing on Phoronix that we could mimic for this.  It was a visual history of Ubuntu up to date.
<jenda> What about getting to other... papers?
<poningru> jenda: I think thats part of Press release
<poningru> but yeah the sending part needs discussing
<poningru> we need the translators to translate and then send it to their newspapers
<adamant1988> I can send a copy of the release to my Local papers, don't know if they would be willing to put it in or not
<beuno> poningru: seems like a LoCo effort
<boredandblogging> i asked this once on the mailing list, but how do we approach writers about feisty or ubuntu in general
<beuno> I can get my LoCo to translate and send tot he newspapers too
<poningru> beuno: right I think marketing+loco needs to work together on this
<adamant1988> Ok, so what else can WE as the marketing team do to spread this?
<jenda> poningru: I'll gladly do for Czech ;)
<poningru> jenda: awesome
<poningru> adamant1988: I was thinking facebook, myspace, livejournal etc.
<jenda> In fact, I'd prefer that to giving it to the translation team ;) (eventhough they do a great job on the distro)
<adamant1988> poningru: weren't you the one who raised concerns about going through web 2.0 channels?
<beuno> jenda: for the translations, yes, but someone has to get it to the press
<poningru> adamant1988: hehe yeah :p
<poningru> adamant1988: but that was for UWN
<poningru> I want UWN to be a bit more classy
<adamant1988> poningru: Web 2.0 is a huge echo chamber, we're not getting to anyone new through it.
<poningru> hehe
<adamant1988> The people who hear about it on most web 2.0 sites are only people who WANT to hear about it, and frankly if they're looking for Ubuntu they know what it is and where to find it
<poningru> but see I was thinking things like release party events on facebook
<jenda> beuno: I can try that here, can't guarantee success. I have one good contact, I think.
<poningru> I think this point has faltered out
<beuno> jenda: no one does, but it still isn't bad to get it to them anywat
<poningru> adamant1988: do the magazine
<adamant1988> poningru: I agree, I think for the moment the usual channels are fine
<poningru> yeah...
<beuno> *nyway
<adamant1988> Onto the magazine?
<jenda> okeydokey...
<jenda> Knightlust: ping
<jenda> boredandblogging: ping
<beuno> I have to go for 10 min
<Knightlust> ?
<boredandblogging> http://dc.ubuntu-us.org/wiki/RecentChanges
<adamant1988> Ok, I spoke with Jenda briefly about this.  I'm volunteering to head the magazine project
<jenda> you two were interested in the Magazine?
<Knightlust> im here
<Knightlust> ohh yes
<boredandblogging> oops, this looks like the old magazine : http://dc.ubuntu-us.org/wiki/RecentChanges
<jenda> adamant1988: we'll see, if that'll be happening ;)
<boredandblogging> stupid copy and paste https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMagazine/
<adamant1988> jenda: I think even a few people can do it for starters.
<boredandblogging> i think the magazine is a huge project
<boredandblogging> going to be very time consuming
<Burgundavia> indeed
<Knightlust> besides, we already have topics ready. the UWN could cover 50% of the content
<boredandblogging> and require quite a few people
<Burgundavia> I have looked at doing a magazine in the past as well
<Knightlust> and the rest from contributions from the community
<jenda> hmm
<adamant1988> I've got the time to put into the details for it, and probably writing articles and such as well.
<boredandblogging> and we would have to decide what kind of timeframe, like monthly?
<Knightlust> i think people will be much interested in howtos and technologies
<adamant1988> There's also a thread on the forums from people who want this
<beuno> the magazine would need much more "procesing" of the information, explain what it "means"
<adamant1988> So we can work with themm
<jenda> First, you have to think of 1) who is your target audience 2) what you want to give them.
<Knightlust> and advertisements would be able to support it
<jenda> 2) how it'll be published to reach them best
<boredandblogging> hopefully not on the wiki ;-)
<jenda> (I'd avoid advertisements for now, but it is, in fact, a detail)
<jenda> ALso, you should realise why this has never happened before...
<Knightlust> pdf for now and then try a hard-copy
<adamant1988> Well, I can put up a spec on this.  As for target audience I think we should be aiming for current Ubuntu users and providing content that is relevant to them.
<jenda> well, it hasn't happened because it was waay too much work to orchestrate
<boredandblogging> there are specs for the old ones arleady, check them out
<jenda> adamant1988: don't start a new spec... the magazine has been well specced before...
<adamant1988> boredandblogging: I'll make it a point to go through them and see about it :)
<boredandblogging> https://beta.launchpad.net/ubuntu-magazine
<Knightlust> hmm, i would agree that it'll be too much work, so we could vote whether we release it monthly, bi-monthly, or quarterly
<jenda> You also have to consider what the Fridge is doing, what the UWN is doing, and what the planet is doing - and most importantly - how the Mag would differ.
<beuno>  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-magazine
<jenda> Now if you are serious about it, I can try to draw back some of the old crew.
<beuno> I think the mag should be non-techie
<adamant1988> jenda: I think the magazing should offer more in depth and relevant articles.  The fridge is news, the UWN is news and some blogs.
<jenda> They left because there wasn't enough of a support or a team to create the mag.
<adamant1988> The magazine should be stories, articles, how-toos, etc.
<jenda> adamant1988: so soemtihng along the lines of Behind Ubuntu, but broader?
<Burgundavia> here is what I would do: figure out the content for the 1st edition, mostly reusing old stuff
<Burgundavia> then sit down and just do it
<Burgundavia> nothing will attract people like success
<adamant1988> jenda: Yeah, it's "Linux for human beings" people should kind of be seeing the people who are behind it.
<adamant1988> There are a lot of possibilities for good content
<adamant1988> that isn't already monopolized by the fridge or the UWN
<boredandblogging> this looks like the spec for the first issue: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMagazine/TableOfContents
<boredandblogging> the old first issue or whatever
<Burgundavia> they were being very ambitious with the first try
<adamant1988> Like I said, I have the time to invest in this.  Chopping it up into smaller parts to make them more bite-size will help speed things along.
<Burgundavia> that is probably what sunk it
<boredandblogging> Burgundavia, yeah
<Burgundavia> think small
<adamant1988> I think we should really strive to be realistic in scope
<jenda> Burgundavia++
<boredandblogging> adamant1988, I think quite a few people have to have a lot of time
<jenda> (on creating a first issue)
<jenda> Burgundavia: that, and lack of support from the team..
<adamant1988> boredandblogging: there are, it's true.
<Burgundavia> jenda: they didn't produce anything beyond some words on a page
<jenda> hmpfh
<adamant1988> I will get in touch with the people who keep the thread on the forums going and see if they would like to get involved in this.
<adamant1988> I know there were 3-4 there.
<jenda> adamant1988: which people?
<jenda> ah, the forums
<adamant1988> jenda: just a second'
<jenda> kk
<poningru> hmm
<poningru> awesome
<adamant1988> Yeah there was a thread on the forums asking for this
<poningru> ok guys I have to run
<poningru> need sleep
<adamant1988> I'll get in contact with the people who wanted to start it.
<poningru> nn
<Knightlust> the TOC looks good, we only need content. probably 50% from UWN and fridge. then the rest from contribs... the tips and tricks from the forums or the wiki tutorials
<adamant1988> Knightlust: I think we should avoid pulling content from either
<adamant1988> The fridge and the UWN are already handling the news, we should cover the most relevant bits in an editorial fashion I think.
<boredandblogging> if its going to be timely, it probably can't pull items from the fridge or UWN
<Knightlust> hmmm
<adamant1988> boredandblogging: I'm thinking Monthly releases
<Burgundavia> behind ubuntu is a good place for content
<Knightlust> adamant1988: we'll need to have a lot of time in our hands if it's going to be monthly
<Burgundavia> as are blogs about using X program on Ubuntu
<Knightlust> either that or we reuse content
<adamant1988> Burgundavia: I agree, and I think we should be really getting a lot of good interviews and articles.  The community could really supply good how-to articles
<boredandblogging> Knightlust, agreed, have to scope this out clearly, this will easily get out of hand if not careful
<adamant1988> Knightlust: I think that dedicating a section to news is important, and we should prune the UWN and fridge for the most relevant articles
<adamant1988> but the problem is that by the time we release them, they're old news
<Knightlust> adamant1988: i agree
<boredandblogging> will it be old news for the target reader? what is the target audience?
<jenda> I think that after a few issues, there is a decent chance of big support from the 'regular users'
<adamant1988> boredandblogging: Well, I think we should be aiming at the typical Ubuntu user
<adamant1988> and providing content that is relevant and interesting to them
<boredandblogging> thats vague
<boredandblogging> are we talking about lots of overlap with the UWN?
<boredandblogging> if so, we can't repeat a lot
<boredandblogging> if not, then we can pull stories from the UWN and fridge
<adamant1988> boredandblogging: there shouldn't be any over lap with the UWN, this is a magazine not a weekly news article.
* jenda is sorry but he will probably fall asleep any minute now.
<adamant1988> We could post editorial accounts on BIG news, but for the most part let the UWN do that they do
* Vorian throws cold water on jenda 
<adamant1988> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 02 Apr 15:00: Community Question Time | 03 Apr 11:00: Community Council | 03 Apr 15:00: Kernel Team | 03 Apr 18:00: Mozilla Team | 04 Apr 12:00: Edubuntu | 05 Apr 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<jenda> brrr
* jenda bites Vorian
<boredandblogging> i don't clearly see the difference here...we are trying to get more readers to read the UWN...so those readers won't be reading the monthly?
<adamant1988> Anywho, I think we're talking in circles in IRC.  This is probably a discussion for the mailing list.
<jenda> maybe
<adamant1988> boredandblogging: the magazine would meet a completely different want.
<jenda> keep in mind it's not new, though, and some people will go 'oh god, not again' ;)
<Knightlust> hehe
<adamant1988> jenda: I think part of the key to getting this out is to make everyone responsible to someone
<boredandblogging> if we do the Burgundavia suggestion of something like Behind Ubuntu, it could be interesting
<Burgundavia> behind ubuntu needs to be restarted
<jenda> adamant1988: heh
<Burgundavia> anyway, I have to run
<jenda> Burgundavia: sudo shutdown -r now?
<adamant1988> boredandblogging: That's the same thing I'm suggesting
<Knightlust> wait, lemme try to create a draft or sample, then i'll send it via list.
<jenda> good night :)
<boredandblogging> adamant1988, i suggest another mockup ;-)
<Knightlust> it'll take a while though coz im preparing a presentation for my ubuntu talk, but i'll create one
<adamant1988> boredandblogging: let's hammer out the details in the mailing list
<boredandblogging> sounds good
<adamant1988> everyone think that's acceptable?
<Knightlust> adamant1988: ayt, it'll be much better, people would have more time to think about it
<adamant1988> Ok, so we'll take this on the mailing list
<adamant1988> Done then?
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-03-25
<emgent> @schedule rome
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 26 Mar 22:00: Server Team | 28 Mar 05:00: MOTU | 02 Apr 23:00: Server Team | 09 Apr 23:00: Server Team | 16 Apr 23:00: Server Team | 23 Apr 23:00: Server Team
<bryce> is there a TB meeting here today?
<DPic> anyone here for the marketing team meeting?
<xnox> Yeap
<DPic> cool, well start in like 7 minutes
<xnox> ok =D
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-03-26
<L1pe> hi everyone
<DPic> hello
<xnox> heya
<DPic> alrighty, so how many people are here for the marketing team meeting?
<xnox> 3? =D
<L1pe> :)
<DPic> i hope the DST change didn't confuse people, emmajane was patient enough to wait an hour
<xnox> Huh?
<emmajane> I'm not sure how long I can stay though. :/
<boredandblogging> hello
 * xnox 's clock bangs midnight
<DPic> xnox: she came at 7pm EST when it's really 8pm EST now that daylight savings time is over
<xnox> Ahhhh now it makes sence
<DPic> :)
<DPic> here's the agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Meetings/Minutes/2008-03-26
<DPic> it's short but i'm sure well have more to talk about
<boredandblogging> i gotta run soon
<boredandblogging> so let me mention the gerry carr thing
<boredandblogging> we might get a heads up on the 8.04 press release
<boredandblogging> minus the official canonical quotes
<boredandblogging> so we can pass them out to locos to translate as needed
<DPic> awesome
<boredandblogging> or stick them in press kits or whatever
<DPic> so will we get an email when that happens?
<boredandblogging> yeah, I'll email the marketing and loco-contacts lists
<boredandblogging> if gerry doesn't do it himself
<DPic> great
<DPic> do you have any idea when this will happen?
<xnox> 23 April 23:59 UTC? =D
<boredandblogging> hah
<boredandblogging> yeah, I'll start bugging him in a couple of weeks
<boredandblogging> but yeah, I want to get it as soon as possible too
<boredandblogging> thats all I got
<DPic> alright. and since it seems like a couple people are having to leave early, is this time generally bad or is it just today? would it help to have meetings one hour earlier?
<boredandblogging> time is fine
<DPic> okay
<boredandblogging> but
<emmajane> an hour earlier would have been great :)
<xnox> an hour earlier as well would be better
<boredandblogging> yeah, think its tough for people in Europe to make it
<DPic> emmajane: today, or for future meetings?
<DPic> okay i'll make it an hour earlier
<emmajane> 7PM is good for me because it gives me time to get to the gym afterwards :)
<xnox> Cool =D
<emmajane> and the reminder was great
<DPic> and is it okay with everyone that i've made meeting monthly now instead of every two weeks?
<emmajane> EST/DST thing did screw me up. I nver think about the difference.
<xnox> DPic: 1 a month is plenty? Isn't it?
<boredandblogging> should we have meetings before hardy?
<DPic> i think so
<DPic> hmm maybe a special meeting two weeks from now just because of the Hardy release?
<boredandblogging> sure
<emmajane> works for me
<xnox> fine
<DPic> alright then
<DPic> now, first thing on the agenda is to talk about fliers
<DPic> we have a few here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Materials
<DPic> but i would definitely like to see more. any ideas on who else we can contact?
<boredandblogging> most of the people who used to do that stuff arent' that active in -marketing anymore
<DPic> i sent an email to the loco-contacts list which included a link to that page and we got one person to add their work
<DPic> would it be worth contacting the artwork team?
<boredandblogging> don't see the old DIY page on the Materials page
<xnox> I will try to come with something. Although I'm not great artist =D
<boredandblogging> no wait
<boredandblogging> its there
<DPic> the materials page has all of the work from the DIY page i think
<boredandblogging> cool
<xnox> no it doesn't https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DIYMarketing?highlight=%28DIY%29
<DPic> could someone contact the artwork ream?
<DPic> xnox: alright i'll work on copying stuff over
<xnox> I'll contact artwork team :P
<DPic> xnox: thanks
<DPic> is there anything else we should do as far as fliers go?
<xnox> 2 weeks before hardy send links to all Loco teams to remind them there is something to use =D
<DPic> yeah, i'll be reminded to do that at our next meeting
<boredandblogging> i gotta head out, will read the backlog later
<DPic> okay thanks for coming
<xnox> bye!
 * xnox still here though
<DPic> i got an email from someone asking if there were any big events planned for the hardy release
<DPic> i told them that i didn't know but i'd ask here if there were and if not, who to contact about making arrangements
 * xnox is in UK and it seems dead
<L1pe> DPic: well there are parties everywhere
<DPic> yes, but i'm pretty sure he meant like a BIG event
 * johnc4510 sorry late
 * xnox most of the LUG's anyway around where I live are dead
<DPic> johnc4510: no problem. did you read up on what you missed?
<xnox> I've heard of BIG events in China =D
<johnc4510> doing that now
<xnox> but I'm never gonna get there =(
<DPic> johnc4510: okay cool, if you have anything to add, please do
<DPic> xnox: well, are there any people who would be able to set up such an event?
<xnox> not really
<DPic> alright i'll let him know
<DPic> my reply is already like a month late :/
<L1pe> I think that 50 parties arround the world is a BIG event...
<DPic> L1pe: yeah but he's looking for one big event
<johnc4510> DPic: we should get the link to the teams as soon as possible for the flyer, so they can start printing and handing them out
<DPic> johnc4510: the fliers that exist now talk about hardy as if it's already been released
<johnc4510> k
<johnc4510> hmm
<DPic> i don't think we'll have any to talk about it's upcoming release in time although that would have been nice
<DPic> next thing on the agenda is ubuntu demos. I added this a few weeks ago and thinking about it now it doesn't seem like the best idea but my thinking was to just try to get more people to SEE ubuntu but having demos on the streets. It might be better to ask teams to request having a demo at a computer show or something (not sure how they would pull that off). something similar is mentioned under friendly contact here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GainIndus
<xnox> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GainIndustrySupport ?
<DPic> ....?
<DPic> i fail to understand your question
<xnox> Page does not exists
<xnox> the one you send
<DPic> okay it works for me but here's the quote, "Everyone should be able to get in touch with companies and just say what you want. For example, you could go to a computer retail store and ask them about supporting Ubuntu, then show off your own computer running it. They'll like the spinning cube :)"
<johnc4510> works for me
<xnox> DPic: sounds great unless they will think it's hidden camera show ;)
<DPic> haha
<DPic> well how could we get LoCo teams to do this?
<DPic> maybe add it to this page, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HitTheStreets ?
<xnox> I think we should do a hidden camera show and put it on youtube
<xnox> with something like that
<DPic> xnox: that's actually a great idea
<xnox> a) loco's will see it
<xnox> b) people will see
<xnox> c) employees will see it as well
<DPic> c) the internets will see it!
<DPic> oh.
<DPic> :P
<xnox> DPic: internerds =D
<DPic> we would be able to catch a lot of people's reactions on camera
<DPic> it could make for a good promotional video
<DPic> which Ubuntu and free software in general needs more of
<xnox> I personally like the firefoxflicks.com idea
<xnox> it's simple yet attractive
<L1pe> I don't think that's a good idea...
<DPic> L1pe: why not?
<L1pe> well, maybe only in the "first world". because in many many countries people walking in the streents doesn't even have computers...
<xnox> Good point
<DPic> L1pe: well with that we'd be targeting the "first world" but i think it's a good idea for that
<L1pe> and in my opinion you just can't make somebody in the street to change there OSes
<DPic> that is true but i think some promotional videos could help a lot if they served to educate consumers
<L1pe> sure
<xnox> "Regular mum stripping DRM while cooking breakfast?" =D from ubuntuforums i think
<DPic> hah
<DPic> last on the agenda is team jobs
<xnox> "Ubuntu - Linux for human beings; Unable your Medibuntu repository =D"
<L1pe> maybe some crazzy promotional videos, (I really like that kind of marketing)
<DPic> what kind of "crazzy" do you mean?
<xnox> Walk into dell store and boot all computer
<xnox> s into ubuntu live cd
<xnox> catch on camera reaction of people =D
<xnox> Oh dell stores are shut down aren't they
<DPic> yeah, but it'd be hard to pull off
<L1pe> like 100 loco members runing in the streets of dubai with live cds :)
<xnox> ROLF
<DPic> rolling on laughing floor?
 * xnox I knew I never knew chatspeak
<xnox> it's RLOF isn't it?
<xnox> but yeah close enough =D
 * xnox is Russian
<DPic> xnox: it's ROFL --> rolling on the floor laughing :)
<xnox> ahhh that's the one
<DPic> haha anyways, team jobs. is anyone here interested in being the meeting manager? if not i'll email the list about it
<DPic> anyone?
<DPic> going once
<DPic> going twice
<DPic> going
<DPic> going
<DPic> gone
<xnox> close but no cigar
<L1pe> whats the job spec?
<DPic> take meetimg minutes, contact the fridge to let them know about upcoming meetings, update the claendar and wiki (for meetings)
<L1pe> I can do that if you want
<DPic> it's not a lot of work, it's just a little but you have to do at regular intarvals
<DPic> L1pe, that would be great
<DPic> can i talk to you after the meeting about what to do?
<L1pe> ok
<DPic> great
<DPic> are there any other jobs that this team needs?
<DPic> i think a person or two to act as a team contact would be good
<DPic> so people can contact them instead of the list for certain things
<DPic> alright, well is there anything to add before we finish?
 * xnox "Hakuna Matata"
<DPic> +1
<DPic> alright, i guess that's it
<DPic> Meeting adjourned.
<xnox> see ya
<L1pe> not the most popular meeting ever :)
<userone> eh
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 26 Mar 19:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 26 Mar 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 28 Mar 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 02 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 09 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 16 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team
<pleaseandthankyo> can i install ubuntu edubun xunbu kubuntu at the same time?
<pleaseandthankyo> ok installed xubuntu and and goubuntu  on top of edubuntu where are they now? and how do i load them?
<calc> hi
<evand> good evening calc
<ogra_cmpc> evening ? tsk...
<nixternal> morning
<ogra_cmpc> .oO(mummble,mumble ....middleofthenigth.... mumble)
<nixternal> 01:40 Chicago Standard Time :)
<evand> mumble mumble almost 3am mumble :)
<ogra_cmpc> 7:40 CEST
<ogra_cmpc> *yawn*
<evand> not sure which I'd dislike more
<ogra_cmpc> ihad3amones ... and i use to go to bed around 4am anyway ... so that was perfect
<ogra_cmpc> hmm
<ogra_cmpc> spacebar morning-weakness
<calc> its only 1:42am here
<calc> its still early ;-)
<nixternal> or late
 * calc is glad his mother in law watches his son on meeting nights
 * nixternal is glad his mother-in-law is no where near him on any night
<calc> he seems to think 6:30am is a good time to wake up
<nixternal> heh
<calc> so 3am-6:30am would really suck for sleep
<calc> btw the OOo graph is finally pretty :)
<calc> only 10 new bugs
<bryyce> heya guys
<calc> ArneGoetje: thanks for the bug testing :)
 * asac waves
<asac> since when does the meeting start at 0630 UTC?
<asac> :-P
<ogra_cmpc> heh
<james_w> morning all
 * ogra_cmpc waves
<calc> asac: oh i thought it ended at 0700 UTC ;-)
<asac> ogra_cmpc: you already yawmed ... no need to wave ;)
<ogra_cmpc> ... andtriestogetridofthe sesame seedunder thespacebargrrr
<ogra_cmpc> ah, better
<asac> what are you doing ogra_cmpc ;) ... hopefully you are at least properly dressed :)
<ogra_cmpc> haha
<ogra_cmpc> not at that time of day, no ... but i wont go into details :)
<asac> lol
<nixternal> thank goodness :p
<bryyce> asac, did you get many agenda items for the meeting?  I suppose there are plenty of milestone bugs we can talk about.
<asac> bryyce: no additions, no.
<ArneGoetje> calc: welcome. took me a few seconds. :)
<calc> ArneGoetje: i'll have to get you to show me how to do that kind of thing on my laptop at UDS, thanks for taking care of it for me though :)
<ArneGoetje> calc: sure. no problem.
<asac> any trick to get a hardy blocker list from launchpad _with_ the assignee in the list?
<bryyce> not afaik
<asac> i remeber that we had such lists in the past ... but i cant get it by just using advanced search
<bryyce> getting high/crit milestones are pretty easy - http://tinyurl.com/2vtt6u
<slangasek> asac: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-8.04
<asac> slangasek: thanks
<slangasek> trade-off is that you can't hide the fix-released bugs :)
<asac> slangasek: how comes that that list is about 208 bugs, while the hardy tagged list is just 138?
<asac> oh
<asac> i see
<bryyce> I've been browsing through the high priority milestones, and noted a few that looked relevant to us...  http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/61106/
<asac> the network-manager issues should to be fixed on a branch. if anyone still experiences issues connecting with NM, please talk to me
<asac> ok ... maybe start?
<bryyce> yep
<asac> slangasek: for beta wrap-up: are there are any _new_ issues that came up after beta?
<slangasek> oh, sure, there were the regressions that people uploaded to the archive the day after the beta freeze ended :)
<asac> haha
<slangasek> if people don't know what I'm talking about - hal/network-manager started giving problems with wireless, and language packs started having errors with overlapping files, and then Germany went on a four-day weekend ;)
<calc> slangasek: i thought that was all of europe
<ogra_cmpc> calc, not all of us
<TheMuso> calc: Australia also.
<ogra_cmpc> but most
<bryyce> sure made for a quiet couple of days for us in usa ;-)
<asac> i worked the whole weekend :) ... though on security backports
<slangasek> so thankfully, I think everyone's out of four-day weekends between now and release, so I'm optimistic that we won't have any repeats of /that/...
 * ogra_cmpc hacked on classmate the whole time
<TheMuso> ,e actually got away from the computer.
 * TheMuso actually got away from the computer.
<calc> yummy bug 159893 sounds like it would fix my biggest gripe with compiz and its targeted for hardy
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 159893 in compiz "Windows only snap to outside edges" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/159893
<bryyce> TheMuso: heresy!
<slangasek> as for problems with the beta itself, things look pretty good.  Still waiting for Xubuntu to give me the thumbs-up for a set of alternate CDs to release as a beta for them, but otherwise we're on the final stretch to release now
<bryyce> so it looks like we have until April 10th, Final Freeze, and then RC on the 17th and final release a week after that on the 24th.
<slangasek> correct
 * ArneGoetje still needs to check some scim and fonts issues... :(
<slangasek> please use this time wisely to work on those milestoned bugs - if anyone's worried about running out, let me know, and if anyone's worried that they have too many assigned, let me know that too
<bryyce> ArneGoetje, do you want to give a status on that?
<doko> about bug #174002, you probably can avoid the reboot question if using noifiers to ask for a reboot of the system, but at least for server, the update notifiers are not installed by default
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 174002 in glibc "asks termnal question on dapper->hardy upgrade" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174002
<calc> hmm final freeze is the day after i fly off to prague
<slangasek> you're going to prague a month early?
<doko> calc: so it's one day earlier for you =)
<calc> slangasek: yea GoOOCon
<calc> doko: yea
<slangasek> ah
<calc> slangasek: doko as well but on friday (i think)
<ogra_cmpc> doko, show a debconf note if there is no DISPLAY set
<ArneGoetje> bryyce: I don't have an overview right now, as those bugs seem to be individual problems, some of them on KDE... so I would need to replicate them first
<ogra_cmpc> or just echo to the console
<slangasek> calc: ohwell, that gives you extra padding so that OOo can be uploaded /and built/ before the freeze then :-)
<doko> ogra_cmpc: it is shown now, but only for the case when debconf is installed
<calc> slangasek: heh yea
<ogra_cmpc> doko, if [ -z "$DISPLAY" ];then echo "please reboot" fi
<ogra_cmpc> :)
<doko> calc: I'd like to to an OOo -l10n language export test for -4. Could you make a preliminary -4 build available somewhere?
<calc> doko: ok, just the same as -3 but with some language stuff done differently?
<calc> doko: i am uploading 2.4.0-1ubuntu1 later this week
<calc> doko: probably tomorrow or so, whenever the official announcement goes out
<doko> calc: fine, just tell me where I can grab it before your upload
<calc> doko: ok, do you need just the orig/diff/dsc or the debs as well?
<bryyce> slangasek: are there particular bugs you've noticed as important, that aren't getting sufficient attention or progress on them so far?
<doko> calc: source only
<calc> doko: ok
<asac> ok, i think i assigned all unassigned ffox and network manager blocker bugs now.
<asac> (to me)
<slangasek> bryyce: I haven't noticed that yet, no; with less than a week since beta and Easter weekend intervening, there's insufficient data yet,  but I'll certainly be tagging people if I think it's necessary
<bryyce> slangasek: ok well always good news that the sky is not falling ;-)
<asac> yes. i wondered why i haven't received the expected bug flood yet, but maybe its really because of easter
<slangasek> <cough> it's because no one could connect to the Internet to send their bugs :-)
<james_w> slangasek: you can poke me about odds and ends as I don't have an area of my own yet.
<ogra_cmpc> i would expect more testers because of that, not less
 * bryyce snorts
<asac> slangasek: hehe :)
<asac> yeah. thats another point
<slangasek> james_w: sounds great, thanks :)
<bryyce> yes, I've been noticing mutterings about wireless issues in some xorg bug reports lately.
<bryyce> "Can you ssh in and attach gdb to Xorg to see why it's crashed?"  "Nope, wireless is broke."  ;-)
<slangasek> fwiw, we *should* have those wireless regressions sorted in the archive now
<ogra_cmpc> asac, btw, heise held back the beta announcement until yesterday (to put it in the news aside with the fedora one)
<slangasek> it took a little longer than it ought to have, mainly because there were two overlapping regressions in two different packages
<bryyce> excellent, yeah sounds like the issues are already past
<ArneGoetje> also for IPW2200?
<asac> ogra_cmpc: which ubuntu beta?
<ogra_cmpc> yup
<slangasek> but I expect we'll still have to handhold a few users through getting their wireless back up, for a few more days
<asac> ArneGoetje: ipw2200 hidden ssid is fixed on my branch ... otherwise it should work
<asac> ArneGoetje: testing appreciated
<ArneGoetje> asac: will do tonight
<bryyce> for Xorg, things seem to be pretty stable - the usual level of issues.  Mostly we're catching secondary and tertiary side effects from various fixes that went in around beta
<bryyce> I learned today that the compiz folks have blacklisted all ATI laptops, which is disappointing, but looks like it was the right call.  A lot of users are going to complain about it though.
<asac> anyone can confirm that dpkg-buildpackage -S -si is broken (it always includes the orig.tar.gz in changes for me)
<asac> well dpkg-genchanges that is
<asac> (i had to create the changes in a gutsy chroot for the firefox security update)
<TheMuso> asac: I never use -si, I just use dpkg-buildpackage -S and no orig is included.
<asac> it still includes the orig for me
<asac> $ dpkg-genchanges -S -si
<asac> dpkg-genchanges: including full source code in upload
<asac> same without -si
<asac> whats going on :(
<slangasek> what's your version number?
<doko> asac: did you want to look at the Blackdown java1.4 packages, or can we remove them from the distro now?
<asac> 2.0.0.13+0nobinonly-0ubuntu0.7.4
<slangasek> (does that mean the meeting's over, if we're talking about dpkg-genchanges commandline options?)
<asac> in the past it just auto did that for -1
<asac> (like in debian)
<asac> slangasek: well ... not sure. if its broken its certainly a blocker ;)
<slangasek> maybe the heuristic has been changed to <= -1
<slangasek> heh
<asac> slangasek: anyway ... it should honour the -si
<asac> agreed?
<slangasek> well, yes :)
<asac> should happen for all -0ubuntuX things if its really <= -1 now
<asac> ill test and file a bug. anything else?
<slangasek> asac: is ubufox getting up to the top of your list yet?  It would be nice to have confirmation that java now works by default for 64-bit users
<asac> slangasek: yes. I will push it so it gets done by end of this week for sure.
<slangasek> ok
<doko> it should work for everything but LiveConnect
<asac> but the comments in bug looked good (except the wizard)
<slangasek> doko: "by default" -> ubufox still doesn't know to install icedtea-gcjwebplugin
<asac> why is that a problem?
<asac> is there no transitional package?
<slangasek> so we don't really get full user testing right now :)
<slangasek> asac: there is not, no
<asac> why not? (sorry if i miss the obvious)
<slangasek> asac: if there were a transitional package, users would get two options in the plugin list where they should get one...?
<asac> they will only get the package that had the Npp- headers in their control when ubufox database was updated the last time
<doko> well, I can build an empty package from the icedtea-gcjwebplugin source
<asac> so for now it would work
<asac> and once i run the datbase batch it would automatically suggest -gcjwebplugin
<asac> instead of the old one
<asac> (given that the Npp- headers are dropped from the transitional package control)
<slangasek> doko: an easy push through NEW from my POV if you want to do that
<asac> doko: empty? without transition?
<slangasek> empty -> dummy -> transition
<asac> ok
<asac> doko: please do that. i think users that installed the icedtea plugin want to be auto upgraded anyway
<doko> ok, will do
<asac> great
<slangasek> doko: have you gotten an answer to your inittab question yet?
<doko> slangasek: no, and not that high priority. I'll have to look later
<slangasek> I'm interested in knowing the answer, since I can't figure it out myself, guess it needs picking Scott's brain
<ogra_cmpc> fedora will surely soon have a fix now that they switched to upstart :P
<asac> ok, i guess meeting is over ;)
<slangasek> ok, thanks all :)
<ogra_cmpc> thanks
 * asac goes back to work
<asac> thanks
<bryyce> thanks
<TheMuso> thanks all
<ArneGoetje> thanks
<TheMuso> minutes will be out tomorrow my time.
<calc> goodnight
<james_w> thanks all
<evand> thanks
<stgraber> ok, so we have RichEd and ogra_cmpcng :) anyone else ?
<ogra_cmpcng> unlikely :)
<ogra_cmpcng> highvoltage, ?
<ogra_cmpcng> juliux, ?
<ogra_cmpcng> anyone ?
<RichEd> i've got a packed day with bad internet
<RichEd> i'll lurk and respond if pinged by name
<ogra_cmpcng> i'm fiddling with the next gen classmate atm
<juliux> ogra_cmpc, i am half here
 * juliux is fighting with a lotus notes and domino server
<ogra_cmpcng> and i dont have anything to report ... four days of easter and all remaining workdays went into classmate
<ogra_cmpcng> beta was good though
<ogra_cmpcng> there were three slightly critical bugs discovered in beta, one is moodle (not fixed yet), one in ltsp (amd64 dhcpd.conf handling (there is a fix on teh bug)) and italc not being installable in a netinstall (fixed by stephane, sorry for not having it uploaded yet)
<ogra_cmpcng> beyond that we have two categories in g-a-i that i have to remove since they are empty
<ogra_cmpcng> and there is one upstream ldm security bug that needs fixing
<ogra_cmpcng> thats about it from my side
<ogra_cmpcng> any questions anyone ?
<stgraber> sounds good and not too hard to fix for RC
<ogra_cmpcng> oh, i forgot, laser has uploaded a new and fixed squeak
<ogra_cmpcng> and apparently he builds the squeak vm for all arches so you can have it on ppc and amd64 as well
<ogra_cmpcng> i will have to test how good it behaves on the classmate, since i suspect it will be used a lot
<stgraber> how better is the new classmate ? do you have L2 cache on this one ? :)
<ogra_cmpcng> its a typical OLPC app so i assume kids will want it on the classmate
<ogra_cmpcng> nope
<ogra_cmpcng> and the device i have here is a total fake :)
<stgraber> but real HDD right ?
<stgraber> ok :)
<ogra_cmpcng> 512M and 30G HDD
<ogra_cmpcng> both wont be the default afaik
<ogra_cmpcng> but that might still change depending on prices ... the device i have here isnt supposed to come out before Q3 or so
<ogra_cmpcng> it has a 9" screen and a right shift key though :)
<ogra_cmpcng> and a neat case that looks a bit more modern
<stgraber> oh, so you'll be making less typing mistake now :)
<ogra_cmpcng> not really, the keys are different i have to get used to it
<stgraber> have you had a chance to run italc on one of the "old" classmates, I'd be interested by memory usage on those
<ogra_cmpcng> it should be by default in the latest images ... i didnt do a fresh install yet on an old one
<stgraber> ok
<ogra_cmpcng> hrm
<ogra_cmpcng> at least its supposed to be in the default install
<ogra_cmpcng> its not here on the ng classmate
<stgraber> it seems to eat 14MB on my lappy (64bit) but I have a real highres screen (1680x1050) so might be a lot less on the cmpc
<ogra_cmpcng> 14M is a lot
<ogra_cmpcng> at least for a classmate
<stgraber> yes, but that's on 64bit with 1680x1050, I'd expect x11vnc to eat a lot less on a 32bit 800x480 screen
<ogra_cmpcng> is it x11vnc ? i thought it uses its own code
<stgraber> it's its own code but the VNC part is 90% based on x11vnc
<ogra_cmpcng> ah
<ogra_cmpcng> so just stolen from there
<stgraber> it forks into 2 process one doing the iTalc actions (locking screen, allowing demo mode, ...) and the other running x11vnc
<ogra_cmpcng> it eats 6.88M reserved ram here
<ogra_cmpcng> not to bad
<stgraber> ok, so seems to be directly related to the screen resolution
<ogra_cmpcng> (running idle)
<ogra_cmpcng> ok ... so wrt meeting i'm done so far ... RichEd, anything to add ? management/community ?
<stgraber> btw, I'll soon have the avahi scripts ready to replace ica-launcher and italc-launcher. I don't think we'll be able to incldue those in the package for Hardy
<stgraber> so where is the best place to upload them ?
<ogra_cmpcng> yeah, sadly
<ogra_cmpcng> PPA ?
<ogra_cmpcng> so hardy users can pull them inofficially
<RichEd> ogra_cmpc: not from my side today
<stgraber> I'm not sure generating an entire new package is necessary as it's just the two launcher scripts that need to be replaced
<RichEd> thanks for managing the mini-meeting
<ogra_cmpcng> :)
<ogra_cmpcng> having fun with the new keyboard :)
<ogra_cmpcng> RichEd, btw, suspend/hibernate works on the next gen ... i have one issue with the backlight being off on resume but thats fixable (and works if you hit the brightness key once)
<RichEd> great
<stgraber> hmm, now that I'm having a look at it, my new scripts will required avahi-tools and probably python-avahi so uploading a package to the PPA makes sense so I can easily add the new depends
<RichEd> what's better about the keyboard ?
<ogra_cmpcng> right shift key
<stgraber> the other way would have been a wiki page with the two scripts attached
<ogra_cmpcng> smaller higher keys
<RichEd> and can you send a mini status email to me about any issues we need to urgently fix (for the IDF launch)
<ogra_cmpcng> so the center point of the keys is further apart
<RichEd> is that better for bigger fingers ?
 * RichEd also missed the right shift
<RichEd> annoying at times
<ogra_cmpcng> RichEd, its all fixed, i uploaded the fixed package for the installer this morning, it just takes its hours to get into the archive before i can go on
<RichEd> so i can tell mr k that we can satisfy them
<RichEd> ?
<ogra_cmpcng> i saw some video lockups though
<ogra_cmpcng> not sure what that is yet, but its nothing that happens constantly and we can blame the unreleased status of the image for now
<RichEd> okay ... not critical though for now ... it is prerelease
<ogra_cmpcng> in any case its installable with my next image build
<RichEd> tell them to file a bug report if and when it happens
<ogra_cmpcng> and the webcam works fine :)
<RichEd> great ... they can chat to you live while you work ;)
<ogra_cmpcng> well, i know when it happens .... i just dont know why yet and why it isnt realiably reproducable
<ogra_cmpcng> RichEd, the ekiga videophone works out oif the box :)
 * highvoltage is here
<highvoltage> sorry, was in shower, somehow thought there was a late meeting
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpcng: how is NG?
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpcng: can you take a pic of the new clasmate dummy you have?
<ogra_cmpcng> not sure i'm allowed to
<ogra_cmpcng> its not public yet
<highvoltage> ah ok.
<ogra_cmpcng> oh, i missed to finish the meeting ...
<highvoltage> nice that it has lots of RAM at least. is the 30GB hard disk also flash? or magnetic platters?
<ogra_cmpcng> highvoltage, thats a real HD and it wont have the amount of ram in the released variant by default i think
<ogra_cmpcng> anyway
<ogra_cmpcng> need to close the meeting and do more tests
<ogra_cmpcng> going once
<ogra_cmpcng> twice ...
<ogra_cmpcng> adjourned ... thanks everyone
<Laney> @schedule london
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/London: 26 Mar 19:00: Xubuntu | 26 Mar 21:00: Server Team | 28 Mar 04:00: MOTU | 02 Apr 22:00: Server Team | 09 Apr 22:00: Server Team | 16 Apr 22:00: Server Team
 * dtrask is away: Lunch time...leave a msg
 * pedro_ waves
<ogasawara> hi all
<pedro_> hello ogasawara
<pedro_> hey Iulian
<heno> hey all!
 * Iulian waves
 * stgraber waves
<stgraber> nand: ping
<pedro_> hi heno
<nand> hi!
<heno> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 17:02. The chair is heno.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<heno> agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
<heno> sorry for the late announcement!
<pedro_> i'm loving the meeting schedule posted at the wiki page
<pedro_> thanks for it ;-)
<heno> yeah, I thought that might be useful :)
<heno> (for when I make agendas very late ;-D )
<Iulian> Actually it is ;)
<heno> [TOPIC] QA-Website frontpage (nand and stgraber)
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA-Website frontpage (nand and stgraber)
 * heno still needs to reply to some of nand's emails about brainstorm
<stgraber> that's something we have been discussing a bit with nand, qa.ubuntu.com looks really empty and useless as it's now and we thought we would really need to improve it
<nand> yep!
<heno> nand: I've not forgotten, it's just queed up ...
<nand> heno: I guessed so
<stgraber> so first thing, as this page will be linked from the QA bar you have at the top of all our websites, we'll need a name for it
<stgraber> this page will act as a summary of all the other QA related websites (ISO tracker, Brainstorm, QA Blog, links to Hug days, ...)
<heno> 'Home' ?
<heno> does drupal have a blog plugin, btw?
<stgraber> the problem I see with 'Home' is that people will expect to be brought back to the main page of the website they currently are on
<stgraber> heno: yes, we are testing it on http://qablog.stgraber.org
<heno> ooo, pretty
<nand> Ideally there should be some feedback on Ubuntu dev on this blog
<liw> oops, I forgot to /join the right channel
<heno> nand: agreed
<nand> to give some update to a good portion of users whose only portal to Ubuntu is brainstorm
<heno> 'QA Home'?
<liw> (if someone wants to paste me the backlog for this meeting, I'd be happy to catch up)
<stgraber> liw: http://paste.stgraber.org/1989
<liw> thanks
<pedro_> I've already flood him by privmsg hehe
<stgraber> 'QA Home' sounds better
<liw> I have three copies of the backlog now, thanks everyone
<stgraber> any other idea ?
<heno> we should also consider setting up reports.qa.u.c or similar for bug lists, weather report, etc
<stgraber> heno: that's my idea with qa.ubuntu.com
<stgraber> let me copy/paste the planned content
<stgraber>  - Summary tab (developer weather report, news from the blog, top-10 from Brainstorm, links to different tracker (iso, mozilla, ...))
<stgraber>  - Testing tracker tab (status for ongoing testing, summary of user's subscriptions)
<stgraber>  - Brainstorm tab (user's favourite ideas, top-10 most recent ideas, top-10 from frontpage)
<stgraber>  - Resource tab (links to Wiki, LP, Hug days, Ubuntuwire, ...)
<heno> ogasawara: could the weather report live on reports.qa.u.c/releasestatus ? or so
<ogasawara> heno: I believe so - I actually have it at http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogasawara/weatherreport.html currently
<stgraber> the default tab being the Summary which would have some kind of block base UI showing content from the various QA resources
<heno> ogasawara: yeah, thanks for getting that back up!
<stgraber> any other idea of what we should show on qa.ubuntu.com ?
<nand> Ideally too, it should be noob-proof
<davmor2> nand: :)
<nand> meaning, a new user could actually learn things here about the processes
<nand> and how to get involed
<nand> ;)
<nand> I see that page as a portal for noob to enter and discover Ubuntu dev
<stgraber> we don't want our users to be sent to the ISO Tracker with no idea of what it's and how to use it, so we should disply the appropriate wiki link in the various tabs
<heno> sort of a 'How can you help? layout
<davmor2> pictures pictures everywhere.  It's easier to understand something when you can see it.
<nand> davmor2: exactly
<nand> You all remember I guess when you started contributing: The hardest part is to actually start
<heno> least complex at the top: filing bugs, running unstable milestones, triage, structured testing
<heno> getting increasing complicated
<nand> And it would be good to take this opportunity (high popularity of brainstorm) to recruit new contributors!
<davmor2> Wiki updates will be on going adding images where appropriate and hopefully simplifying where possible it's all in hand honest
<nand> boss around :)
<heno> shall we just do some layour mock-ups on a wiki page?
<stgraber> good idea
<stgraber> would be great to have different views of how this website will look like so we can discuss it a bit more at Prague
<davmor2> heno: yes it'll be best then vote on it next meeting
<stgraber> (assuming you guys will be at FOSSCamp)
<heno> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/MainSiteHomePageScratch say
<davmor2> stgraber: :(
 * heno will be there
 * nand too
<davmor2> heno: page sounds good :)
<heno> sounds like a plan
<heno> [TOPIC] RC and final testing preparations
<MootBot> New Topic:  RC and final testing preparations
<heno> our team efforts on final release testing could do with some more structure
<heno> -- an action item for me basically
<heno> Several people have already stepped up to take ownership of various parts of it
<heno> Thanks!
<heno> davmor2: will be responsible for Windows-based testing
<heno> liw will run a series of upgrade tests and netboot
<heno> pedro_ will keep https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ISO/FixValidation updated and track that
<heno> I may still ping other team members and ask for help on bits of this
<stgraber> I'll do LTSP and some other weird Alternate testing (manual + double encrypted LVM that sort of things)
 * dtrask-away is away: I'm back!
 * dtrask-away is back.
<heno> I should write an overview of who'se doing what
<heno> stgraber: excellent, thanks
<davmor2> I'll move on to *buntu's once I get the windows stuff out the road.
<ogasawara> heno: that would be good.  then we can sign up for responsibilities that aren't yet assigned
<heno> yep
<stgraber> heno: hmm, we should have that overview with user's subscription if they update them accordingly
<davmor2> heno: with the RC are we going for full coverage at least once?
<heno> ogasawara: I'll ask for some of your tracking page expertise as well :)
<heno> davmor2: ideally more than single coverage
<heno> stgraber: I mean a bit more general tasks
<davmor2> I did say at least once :)
<heno> thinks like keeping track of the fix verification isn't a test case
<davmor2> stgraber: I updated mine as much as possible
<stgraber> heno: right
<heno> davmor2: indeed, you're right -- more than one tester and likely more than one iteration too
<heno> I've been wondering if we should remove the updates cases from the tracker
<davmor2> heno: what would also be useful would be a way to identify the least tested product so when general jobs are done the least tested can be nailed
<heno> they way liw and mvo tests updates doesn't really fit with that
<heno> thoughts?
<liw> hmm
<heno> also, davmor2 had requested feedback on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Backing_Up
<liw> I like the approach of having a list of tasks to be performed and being to click "pass" or "fail" for each
<liw> even for upgrade testing
<heno> ref http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/upgrade/all
<heno> liw does that fit the tests you plan to do?
<heno> or should the cases be adjusted?
<stgraber> I'm not sure if that was mvo or something else but someone asked for "Upgrade (cd-rom)" to be added to the Upgrade testcases
<stgraber> so we'll have : Upgrade (internet) and Upgrade (cd-rom) instead of a single Upgrade testcase
<heno> yep and we need Dapper->Hardy cases too
<liw> heno, I think it's fine, at least currently; I assume that if I come up with improvements, they'll be easy to do
<heno> (ok, so forget my first suggestion; let's look at ways of modifying the cases)
<stgraber> so we currently have upgrade for : edubuntu, kubuntu, ubuntu, ubuntu server and xubuntu
<stgraber> any other to add ?
<heno> liw: there are no dapper upgrade tests listed for example
<heno> do we still want Edubuntu as a separate case?
<liw> heno, yeah, that's true; I'll make a list of all the scenarios I want to test, and make checklists for how to test each one
<heno> liw: thanks
<stgraber> heno: it's : current edubuntu -> ubuntu edu add-on
<stgraber> heno: so we'll drop edubuntu with Intrepid
<liw> heno, and offer them up for discussion on #ubuntu-testing (putting/keeping them on the wiki, obviously)
<heno> ok, cool
<heno> FYI: liw is setting up some massively package-overloaded install images to run upgrade from
<heno> so it's more than just install+upgrade
<heno> most packages and flavours are covered in a single upgrade test really
<stgraber> my initial plan was to update the testcases for RC tonight as I'll be away next week. With the problems I had with my Dapper VM I'll likely do the sync only tomorrow evening
<stgraber> so please tell me what you want changed by then
<liw> stgraber, ack
<heno> stgraber: great, thanks. We'll do that
<davmor2> I'll probably poach the screenshots from here http://www.partimage.org/Screenshots rather than create new ones for the backup page
<heno> so I'll take the action of setting up an overview page, and we'll take it from there
<heno> [TOPIC] Beta bugs impact
<MootBot> New Topic:  Beta bugs impact
<heno> I just wanted to hear what the impact of the release has been. Doesn't look too bad AFAICS
<heno> pedro_, ogasawara?
<pedro_> yep it's looking good on the desktop side
<pedro_> we indeed have more bugs which is good
<ogasawara> same here, haven't noticed anything major
<pedro_> but there's nothing we don't know already and the other ones are low impact (features, etc)
<heno> pedro_: :)
<davmor2> goodo :)
<pedro_> so yeah everything looking pretty good
<heno> excellent!
<heno> and as usual, we had a bug day yesterday, and will have one tomorrow!
<heno> any other items?
<pedro_> yes sr! based on GDM and GNOME Screensaver so be there ;-)
<pedro_> not from me
<heno> and KDM as well I guess
<heno> 3
<heno> 2
<heno> 1
<heno> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 17:44.
<heno> short and sweet. thanks all!
<pedro_> thanks!
<Iulian> heno: Nop, it's Konqueror IIRC
<Iulian> Oh yes, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20080327/KDE
<heno> Iulian: ok, thanks
<pedro_> ah yes it's konqueror, yuriy told me they don't have enough bugs on KDM so he was looking for another package that might help the hardy release
<Iulian> Cool
<pedro_> time to have something for eat, see you in a while
<zoredache> what are the 4 truths that come before 'ask the simple questions first'?
<Bobi> \msg NickServ Bobi
<emgent> @schedule rome
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 26 Mar 20:00: Xubuntu | 26 Mar 22:00: Server Team | 28 Mar 05:00: MOTU | 02 Apr 23:00: Server Team | 09 Apr 23:00: Server Team | 16 Apr 23:00: Server Team
<Bobi> @schedule vienna
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Vienna: 26 Mar 20:00: Xubuntu | 26 Mar 22:00: Server Team | 28 Mar 05:00: MOTU | 02 Apr 23:00: Server Team | 09 Apr 23:00: Server Team | 16 Apr 23:00: Server Team
<Odd-rationale> xubuntu meeting is coming up in about a half hour?
<zoredache> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 26 Mar 19:00: Xubuntu | 26 Mar 21:00: Server Team | 28 Mar 04:00: MOTU | 02 Apr 21:00: Server Team | 09 Apr 21:00: Server Team | 16 Apr 21:00: Server Team
<zoredache> Odd-rationale: accourding to the schedule.
<Odd-rationale> OK. Just making sure. Thanks!
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 26 Mar 19:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 26 Mar 19:00 UTC: Ubuntu Security Team | 26 Mar 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 28 Mar 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 02 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 09 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Xubuntu Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 26 Mar 19:00 UTC: Ubuntu Security Team | 26 Mar 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 28 Mar 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 02 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 09 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team
<keescook> er? xubuntu meeting vanished?
<Riddell> "Current meeting: Xubuntu"
 * keescook will learn to read some day.
<heno> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/1385
<meborc> in calendar, there is xubuntu and ubuntu securiti (or smth) both starting at 19:00
<meborc> so which is starting now?
<cody-somerville> :)
<keescook> ubuntu security team meeting will be in #ubuntu-hardened.  xubuntu was here first.  :)
<meborc> nice ;)
<cody-somerville> Thanks :)
<cody-somerville> \o/
<sommer> hello
<meborc> hi
<vinze> Hi
<cody-somerville> Heya jm1 :)
<keescook> (ubuntu security team meeting: please join #ubuntu-hardened -- we've had a room conflict)
<cody-somerville> Heya jgamio, vinze, TheSheep, etc. etc. :)
<vinze> Hey cody-somerville :)
<vinze> I've managed to make it :)
<jgamio> hi cody-somerville
 * cody-somerville cheers.
<jgamio> hi everybody
<bobi> hi
<tomplast> Hello
<cody-somerville> It looks like we've gotten a good turn out
<jm1> hi cody-somerville
<solar_george> hi
<jono_> hi all! :)
 * vorian waves
<tomplast> Hello Jono
<jono> hi vorian tomplast :)
 * heno waves
<keescook> (ubuntu security team meeting: please join #ubuntu-hardened -- we've had a room conflict)
<vinze> keescook, perhaps that'd be useful in the topic?
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Ubuntu Security Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 26 Mar 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 28 Mar 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 02 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 09 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team
<highvoltage> hello jono
<keescook> vinze: ubotu controls that.
<jono> hey highvoltage
<vinze> O ok
<jono> right
<jono> is everyone here?
<tomplast> #define everyone ?
<tomplast> ;)
<cody-somerville> Jim isn't here.
<zoredache> everyone = people who matter
<jono> anyone  who wants to be involved in the xubuntu meeting :)
<meborc> i'm here ;)
<tomplast> Then at least I'm here :)
<tomplast> And you ;)
<vinze> cody-somerville, Jim did plan to be there didn't he?
<vorian>  /me waves again :)
<cody-somerville> Yup. He said he might be a few minutes late though, IIRC.
<vinze> O OK
<jono> ok, lets wait a few mins and then begin
 * cody-somerville notes that he is at work and will have to leave for 15 minutes in an hour to go home. :)
 * meborc makes food for everyone
<cody-somerville> \o/
<cody-somerville> Speak of the devil :)
<jono> ok, all set?
<jono> anyone else who should be here?
<highvoltage> we could probably do some warm-up talk. who had enough time to properly think about the questions that cody-somerville asked?
<j1mc> hi all.  i have 1 hour.  :)
<jono> I have an hour too
<jono> ok....
<vinze> Hi j1mc
<highvoltage> I found some of them a bit tough, but thought of it when I had a few gaps here and there :)
<jono> for those who don't know me, I am Jono Bacon, I am the Ubuntu Community Manager
<jono> and I generally try to help the community tick along as smoothly as possible
<jono> while listening to very loud metal :)
<cody-somerville> :)
<heno> highvoltage: are these questions on a mailing list? Got URL?
<vinze> Hehe
<jono> cody-somerville came to me to raise a few of these problems in the community
<vinze> heno, on the mailinglist
<highvoltage> heno: yes, just a sec and I'll get you a link
<jono> and the aim of this meeting is to raise the key issues and begin the road to solving them
<heno> thx
<highvoltage> heno: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2008-March/005242.html
<highvoltage> everybody who hasn't read it yet, please do so before we get going.
<jono> lets keep this meeting as cordial and happy as possible - it is about fixing problems, and we *can* fix these things
 * cody-somerville nods.
<jono> so cody-somerville,
<jono> could you summarise the key issues in a few short sentances?
 * cody-somerville nods.
<cody-somerville> I believe the root issue for Xubuntu right now is that it lacks definition. There is no mission statement, no core objectives, no strategy, and no structure. This has resulted in a number of conflicts and has ultimately lead to several key contributors deciding that it isn't worth their time anymore.
<vinze> Agreed
<jono> right
<jono> so this is something we should absolutely do - produce a mission statement, and a strategy for what you want to achieve with Xubuntu
<jono> something that key contributors agree to
 * cody-somerville nods.
<_MMA_> Are those people even known?
<_MMA_> "key contributors"
<cody-somerville> Thats an excellent question.
<jono> _MMA_: maybe not, but regular contributors may be
<jono> I am not talking about importance
<jono> I am talking about who does the work
<bobi> is the decision of the key contributors definitive?
<vinze> jono, beyond packagers I assume?
<_MMA_> jono: Sure. In Ubuntu Studio we have those people on a list.
<j1mc> with xubuntu we seem to have a small handful of people who do the packaging / seed work, and a few others who contribute in non-technical areas
<jono> I think we need to approach this by first producing an approx strategy
<j1mc> the conflict was on the technical side
<jono> and then people going in and refining
 * cody-somerville nods.
<jono> I think it would be advisable for one person to drive these changes where possible
<\sh> hi guys...sorry for being late...just got home
<jono> is this some people would be happy cody-somerville doing - and would you be interested in doing this cody-somerville?
<jono> it is not about just cody-somerville's view, but him fairly taking in feedback and adjusting the strategy
<j1mc> i would be happy with cody drafting the strategy.  i think he has a good take on what xubuntu is about and could be about
<vinze> I'm all for cody-somerville
 * _MMA_ gives a +1 for Cody as he has been the most active and visible head of Xubuntu for a while.
<jono> from my experience of cody, I would support him to do this too
<jono> anyone else?
<meborc> support on my side
<highvoltage> well, cody has certainly taken initiative in getting things back on track again, by getting this meeting together and addressing the issues. no one else has. I think xubuntu needs cody-somerville to get things into shape a bit.
<charlie-tca> I would support cody
<highvoltage> so I support him too.
<vinze> Btw, cody-somerville, are Lionel and/or Jerome here?
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Xubuntu Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 26 Mar 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 28 Mar 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 02 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 09 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 16 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team
<mr_pouit> +1 for cody too
<jono> cody-somerville: would you be happy to do this work?
<vinze> Ah
<vinze> :)
<cody-somerville> I'd be happy to. :)
<jono> excellent
<jono> so this is a great first step - someone to help drive this process
<jono> I can also work with cody-somerville to assist him on getting a good strategy document together
 * cody-somerville nods.
<cody-somerville> I'd appreciate that.
<jono> they key thing is that when this strategy document is in place, that the project can work to it - it will need broad acceptance
<vinze> I think that should be no problem if community input is gathered
<_MMA_> So then it's official, Cody is the lead on Xubuntu? I ask so there is a clear record.
<meborc> ok
<jono> ok, question for everyone now - please state one sentence aboiut what you feel the purpose of Xubuntu is - if someone else says what you think +1 them
<jono> _MMA_: no, he is producing a strategy document, not neccessarly a lead
<vinze> Producing a user-friendly desktop system, allowing for advanced configuration options without getting bloated
<highvoltage> jono: could I provide a short reasoning for it?
<jono> highvoltage: one sentance please
<meborc> xubuntu is a LIGHTWEIGHT OS using xfce as a DE and lightweight applications
<jono> we don't have a lot of time in this meeting
<solar_george> +1 <vinze>
<bobi> +1 vinze
<tomplast> +1 vinze
<highvoltage> "Xfce Distribution built on Ubuntu core values with usability as main focus."
<charlie-tca> A desktop system for the older, slower systems that are not capable of running most GNOME and KDE
<tomplast> ...and "a low memory footprint"i hope...
<meborc> +1 charlie-tca
<_MMA_> jono: I feel this needs to be established in this meeting. Otherwise, you get a continuation of the last cycle.
<vorian> +1 highvoltage
<jono> _MMA_: just give me some time
<Odd-rationale> Xubuntu should aim to be a light and fast OS that uses xfce desktop and xfce/gtk apps as defaults as much as possible.
<meborc> i believe the main fight was in either including or excluding some gnome applications... this should also be somehow said in the statement!
<j1mc> +1 Odd-rationale
<_MMA_> +1 highvoltage (even if it means GNOME apps)
<mr_pouit> +1 Odd-rationale
<meborc> +1 Odd-rationale
<highvoltage> _MMA_: yes, that is one of the things I would've like to explain ;)
<vinze> meborc, that should follow from the purpose
<jono> anyone else?
<charlie-tca> +1 _MMA_
<jono> I am trying to amalgomate much of the key themes into a single mission here
<vinze> I think that might become a big problem
<meborc> vinze, yes, but if the purpose is a wide "political" talk, then anyone can misinterpret it
<vinze> Two goals are quite conflicting
<jono> would people agree with this:
<jono> To produce an easy to use distirbution, based on Ubuntu, using Xfce as the graphical desktop, with a focus on integration, usability and performance, with a particular focus of running on lower powered computers. The integration in Xubuntu is at a configuration level, a toolkit level, and matching the underlying technology beneath the desktop in Ubuntu.
<vinze> Hmm, true
<vinze> No
<j1mc> to me, the key issues are to decide on which side of the user-handholding of gnome and the lightness of gtk-only / xfce apps.
<vinze> I don't think this would be a solution
<bobi> i would see performance as the main of the three goals
<jono> vinze: which bit?
<_MMA_> And this conflict is why I believe there needs to be a clear lead who can say "THIS is what we're doing".
<meborc> i agree with j1mc
<jono> _MMA_: please...wait
<j1mc> _MMA_: agreed
<jono> _MMA_: we will get there
<antares79> jono, i think a term like "lower-powered computer" is a little too vague these days.. just my 2Â¢
<Odd-rationale> j1mc: I agree
<_MMA_> SUre
<charlie-tca> _MMA_ agreed
<jono> ok, in the sentance I posted above, what is good and what is bad?
<Seveas> antares79, $Â¢ or â¬Â¢?
<vinze> jono, when you say "focus on integration, usability and performance", then you will still be having the discussions on whether to include heavier but user-friendly applications or not
<vinze> Because usability and performance can conflict
<Seveas> (oops, sorry, thought I was in -offtopic -- I'll be quiet)
<jono> vinze: I agree - this is not about specifics, but general goals
<bobi> jono: good is to set the focus on performance, usability and integration
<vinze> Ah, then I think we can all agree on that
<jono> ok
<highvoltage> jono: I think you missed the ubuntu values part. not sure if that was intentional :)
<jono> so do we all agree that the sentence I posted is a general goal
<highvoltage> bobi++
<vinze> +1 for highvoltage
<posingaspopular> im worried about that performance bit jono
<solar_george> jono yes
<tomplast> Do we have to say "focus of running on lower powered computers" isn't "focus on making an effective and memory conservative system" better *-).
<bobi> jono: yes, but we need to priorize priority, usability and integration
<bobi> because they can conflict
<j1mc> jono: i think that the "integration in Xubuntu is at a configuration level" requires some clarification, but i like the empahis on lower-powered computers.
<jono> ok everyone, hold up
<highvoltage> tomplast: indeed. and lots of people run Xubuntu on high-end computers too.
<bobi> sorry, ment performance
<jono> let me read
<vinze> bobi, <jono> this is not about specifics, but general goals
<jono> To produce an easy to use distribution, based on Ubuntu, using Xfce as the graphical desktop, with a focus on integration, usability and performance, with a particular focus on low memory footprint. The integration in Xubuntu is at a configuration level, a toolkit level, and matching the underlying technology beneath the desktop in Ubuntu. Xubuntu will be built and developed as part of the wider Ubuntu community, based around the
<jono> ideals and values of Ubuntu.
<jono> how about that?
<bobi> sounds good
<tomplast> Sound good to me as well :)
<vinze> Same here
<meborc> +1 :)
<solar_george> +1
<charlie-tca> +1
<j1mc> jono: still don't understand the "the integration in Xubuntu is at a ..." but maybe i just don't get it because i'm not uber-technical.
<j1mc> what is "the integration?"
<jgamio> jono: i like change the easy with light
<j1mc> in plain english
<highvoltage> I agree too, is it necessary to say "easy to use" and "usibility" though? (I realise their a bit different, but I think it's the usability part that's actualy important)
<Odd-rationale> when you say "with a focus on integration, usability and performance" is it in that order?
<jono> j1mc: it basically means - xubuntu will be integrated and feel like a unit with configuration, the gui toolkit
<vinze> Odd-rationale, <jono> this is not about specifics, but general goals
<Odd-rationale> ok
<j1mc> jono: ok. thank.
<bobi> just a short general question: is there a place for new, unexperienced developers to help with xubuntu?
<cody-somerville> For Xubuntu, I'd personally like Xubuntu be a powerful, useful desktop that is smart, concise, and usable.
<jono> ok
<vinze> bobi, I'd say a post to the xubuntu-devel mailinglist would be good to get you started
<posingaspopular> bobi: yes, and it depends on where you want to start
<jono> so would everyone agree that my sentence is a good general goal
<vinze> bobi, and there's always xubuntu.org/devel
<jono> does anything scream out as wrong?
<vinze> Yup
<vinze> No
<bobi> jono: yes
<antares79> jono, should this statement help to resolve conflicts between "integration and usability" (ie. feature-rich gnome apps) and "low memory footprint" (ie. gtk-only apps)?
<antares79> if not, then +1 ;-)
<jono> we are getting into specifics too much people
<cody-somerville> jono, My only concern is making the primary emphasis a light memory footprint.
<jono> I want _general_ concensus on _general_ goals
<_MMA_> jono: To me, it doesnt settle to core conflict that has been going on over this dev cycle.
<cody-somerville> I think Xubuntu should be useful before light.
<antares79> alright, then +1
<vinze> So nothing is emphasized yet
<Odd-rationale> jono: Generally, good.
<jono> _MMA_: listen...I am going to get to this
<meborc> if general goal is for low memory, then i'm for it
<jono> _MMA_: this is an iterative process
<meborc> :)
<_MMA_> jono: See my PM.
<meborc> jono, sorry, this is a very painful topic for many of us
<vinze> Xubuntu has a few goals, there has been a conflict on which has the highest priority, but atm we're just defining those goals, right?
 * cody-somerville notes that almost half of the meeting is up for most people.
<highvoltage> jono: to be honest, it's difficult to get general consensus when it affects big specific things that are important to many people, such as the gnome libs inclusion issue.
<jono> all I am looking for before we discuss any specifics of leadership, or specific libraries or gnome inclusion, is a general viewpoint on what we are trying to achieve
<jono> it seems that me in a nutshell you folks want to produce a sleek, usable distro with a focus on performance
 * j1mc nods
<Odd-rationale> jono: Correct. That is what I want.
<cody-somerville> IMHO, I don't think we have the expertise to have a focus on performance.
<cody-somerville> Although, I think we could certainly strive to be light weight.
<solar_george> sounds about right
<_MMA_> jono: What Xubuntu is trying to achieve is really up to the people involved.
<jono> right - I am just looking for a general agreement on what the  high level goals are
<\sh> jono: I think xubuntu has the very same problem as Kubuntu has, which is integration with the core part of ubuntu...so I think to get Xubuntu on track, you should focus on core OS integration level (hal, dbus et all)
<jono> \sh: indeed this is _general_ goals
 * meborc has to leave :( but i'm screaming on my way - MAKE XUBUNTU LIGHT AGAIN :) have a nice evening all...
<jono> please folks, we will get to specifics, but before we can we need to understand what is the general goal of Xubuntu
<jono> it seems that "To produce an easy to use distribution, based on Ubuntu, using Xfce as the graphical desktop, with a focus on integration, usability and performance, with a particular focus on low memory footprint. The integration in Xubuntu is at a configuration level, a toolkit level, and matching the underlying technology beneath the desktop in Ubuntu. Xubuntu will be built and developed as part of the wider Ubuntu community, ba
<jono> sed around the ideals and values of Ubuntu." seems to cater for most general goals
<highvoltage> jono: well, it seems that in _general_, people do actually agree with that general goal
<jono> how those thngs are implemented is another discussion naturally
 * j1mc nods
<vinze> OK, so I think we all agree on that?
<jono> so it seems the key themes are: usability, performance, integration, community processes
<jono> agreed?
<Odd-rationale> I agree with that goal statement.
<vinze> +1
<jono> ok cool
<highvoltage> +1
<_MMA_> +1
<bobi> +1
<solar_george> +1
<tomplast> +1
<cody-somerville> I think that statement is a good start, +1
<j1mc> +1
<posingaspopular> +1
<jgamio> +1
<jono> now what I think we need to do is to use that statement as a general mission statement for the project
<jono> we can now begin discuss exactly how this is implemented
<jono> now, I want to focus on what _MMA_ discussed
<jono> leadership
<jono> there seems to be a lot of faith in cody-somerville
<jono> do you all feel there should be a leader, and if so, would it be cody-somerville?
<bobi> yes
<vinze> I think currently Lionel is project lead, right?
<jono> (you don't have to say if you would want to be a leader, yet)
<cody-somerville> vinze, Lionel has stopped contributing to Xubuntu for the time being
<vinze> Ow, OK, thanks cody-somerville
<jono> I personally feel cody-somerville is demonstrated good leadership skills from what I have seen
<highvoltage> afaik, cody-somerville seems to be the only person who has made himself available to do it, and he seems capable to me.
<jono> what does everyone else think?
<_MMA_> I have watched Cody really step up. He is active in the Ubuntu development channels and looks to really want Xubuntu to shine again.
<vinze> Agreed
<j1mc> i get the feeling that, if we have a leader, that they will likely have the final say on some technical matters, and that everyone might not agree with their perspective, but that is part of having a leader.  i just think it's important to mention that.
<Odd-rationale> +1 cody-somerville
<tomplast> Has Lionel said anything about this?
<bobi> +1 cody
<j1mc> mr_pouit: ?
<vinze> On the other hand, I think we should involve Lionel in this
<j1mc> comments?
<vinze> And mr_pouit
<solar_george> +1 cody-somerville
<cody-somerville> vinze, mr_pouit is Lionel :)
<vinze> Ehm, wait
<vinze> Yeah
<_MMA_> I have had many talks with Cody and also looks to be able to devote the time needed.
<vinze> Sorry, Jerome I meant >.<
<mr_pouit> j1mc: I'm still ok with cody ;)
<vinze> (What's his nick?)
<smarter> jeromeg
<jono> ok, next question:
<vinze> Thanks smarter
<j1mc> +1 for cody... :)  (had to get that in there)
<cody-somerville> :) thanks.
<jono> would you all be happy for cody-somerville to lead the project, based upon the general goal we agreed earlier?
<posingaspopular> +1 cody
<vinze> Yes
<Odd-rationale> aye
<jgamio> +1
<j1mc> Yes
<_MMA_> +1 Cody
<vorian> +1
<highvoltage> +1
<solar_george> +1 cody-somerville
<bobi> +1
<jono> next question:
<jono> do you think that Xubuntu would REALLY KICK ARSE with cody-somerville leading and based on that general goal earlier? :)
<highvoltage> jono: for the record, Xubuntu already really kicks arse ;)
<jm1> +1
<highvoltage> (but yes, it would)
<Odd-rationale> +
<Odd-rationale> 1
<tomplast> +1 from what I have seen so far
<bobi> :) +1
<vinze> +1 for highvoltage's comment :)
<vinze> But yeah
<jono> cody-somerville: would you be interested in leading the Xubuntu project?
<cody-somerville> Yes, sir! :)
<vinze> \0/
<jono> in which case we have made three important steps forward here:
<jono> 1) picked a leader
<jono> 2) agreed on a general mission statement of goals
<jono> 3) agreed that cody-somerville will develop a strategy based on that mission statement
<Odd-rationale> now for specifics?
<j1mc> i just want to reiterate that, part of having a leader is that we may not always agree with cody's gnome/non-gnome app choices, but that we need to make sure that we're respectful of each other in the decision-making processes, and that we still work together as a community.
<cody-somerville> Well said j1mc
<_MMA_> j1mc: +1
<Odd-rationale> j1mc: +1
<jono> I believe the next step is for cody-somerville to develop an initial strategy based on his experience of the project, and then we can use that as a basis for the next meeting
<jono> we need something to work from to move forward effectively
<jono> so I recommend cody-somerville works on this document and then presents it to the community for comment and we schedule another meeting
 * cody-somerville nods.
<posingaspopular> when would the next meeting be?
<jono> posingaspopular: whenever cody-somerville has the document completed
<jono> I recommend in a week or so
<vinze> I think you can track xubuntu-devel for that
<posingaspopular> i certainly dont want to rush cody-somerville
<vinze> (Perhaps a notice on xubuntu.org?)
<jono> I think cody-somerville is likely to be well aware of the key themes and concerns
<jono> and his strategy should seek to satisfy the general goals we agreed earlier
<jono> is everyone in favour of this step forward?
<highvoltage> well, maybe there should be some kind of draft in about a week or so, and then there could be a request for comments.
<cody-somerville> +1
<vinze> +1
<highvoltage> +1
<jono> highvoltage:yep
<tomplast> +1
<Odd-rationale> +1
<bobi> +1
<j1mc> +1
<solar_george> +1
<jm1> +1
<jono> great stuff
<vinze> Thanks jono
<jono> I think we made some good progress here folks :)
<_MMA_> I'd also like to see some of this CC'e to the devel-discuss ML.
<jono> I will help cody-somerville flesh something definitive out, and then lets meet again when the document is complete
<bobi> at least, it's a very good first step
<jono> I would recommend posting the meeting log
<jono> thanks everyone for your participation
<Odd-rationale> Thanks, jono.
<jono> :)
<Odd-rationale> Good luck, cody-somerville
<cody-somerville> Thank you everyone for your kind words
 * vinze thanks jono and our newly-apponted leader cody-somerville :)
<cody-somerville> I appreciate your faith and I look forward to working with all of you
<bobi> congratulations cody-somerville ;)
<j1mc> :)
<vinze> Congrats cody-somerville :)
<jono> :)
<cody-somerville> And a big thanks to jono for coming out to help us
<highvoltage> and thanks cody-somerville
<vorian> best of luck cody-somerville :)
<solar_george> all hail cody-somerville
 * _MMA_ wonders if Cody is old enough to get a pint in Prague? :P
<jono> cody-somerville: your welcome :)
<posingaspopular> congrats cody-somerville
<highvoltage> and thanks to jono too. this might have been a very long meeting without him :)
<posingaspopular> thanks jono
<tomplast> Congrats cody-somerville
<cody-somerville> _MMA_, I'm sure we'll share a few ;]
<jono> no worries folks :)
<_MMA_> ;)
<vinze> highvoltage, we're no easy crows, eh? ;-)
<charlie-tca_> good luck cody-somerville
<vinze> s/crows/crowd
<tomplast> you will need it :E. I vote for only KDE-apps in Xubuntu ;)
<cody-somerville> I welcome everyone over to #xubuntu-devel for further chit chatting and brainstorming :)
<vinze> +1 for tomplast :P
<cody-somerville> <g>
<highvoltage> vinze: heh, yes.
<jono> later all
<jono> :)
<vinze> Bye jono
<tomplast> bye Jono, bring some bacon next time ;)
<cody-somerville> I can write up a meeting summary and post it/send it out/etc. if nobody else absolutely wants to :)
<bobi> bye jono, thanks
 * highvoltage hits the end-of-meeting-gong
<highvoltage> *gong*
<jono> hehe
<jono> bye all! :)
<vinze> tomplast, I bet he never heard that one before :P
<tomplast> vinze: Couldn't resist :p
<vinze> cody-somerville, I can do it too if you'd like
<michalski> question: im facing dst changes in my country, is the server team meeting now or in 1 hour?
<sommer> michalski: an hour
<Seveas> @now
<michalski> ... lol :P
<zoredache> it is currently 19:54 utc...
<Seveas> argh, meeting in progress says ubotu
<Seveas> michalski, /msg ubotu now
<michalski> michalski, /msg ubotu now
<Seveas> michalski, and /msg ubotu schedule
<michalski> blah
<james_w> #ubuntu-hardened I believe
<sommer> !schedule
<ubotu> Ubuntu releases a new version every 6 months. Each version is supported for 18 months to 5 years. More info at http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/releases & http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases
<zoredache> @schedule
<michalski> ok woh woh, server team meeting is here, in 1 hour got it
<michalski> :) thank you
<michalski> i cant attend...
<michalski> cadets is starting in an hour, sommer can you pass this on
<sommer> michalski: sure, that you won't make it?
<vinze> michalski, I'd check in #ubuntu-hardened, there was some message about that at the beginning of the Xubuntu meeting but I can't find it in my logs :(
<michalski> thanks vinze but im not with the Xubuntu team :), server team
<michalski> for me
<michalski> yes sommer, cadets is starting at 21:00zulu, i could attend the meetings before daylight savings time but ugh darn it
<michalski> zulu=gmt=utc :)
<vinze> michalski, yes, but there was a message for those from the server team at the start of the Xubuntu meeting
<vinze> michalski, because of an agenda conflict
<michalski> oh realy?
<vinze> Just check that room, I'm not sure :P
<sommer> vinze: I think the announcement was for the security team, which is different than server :-)
<vinze> sommer, ah, thanks :)
<vinze> jeromeg, timezone error? :)
<jeromeg> vinze: nope, lot of homework
<michalski> :)
<vinze> jeromeg, ah :)
<jeromeg> i'm just staying here for a few minutes, then will have to leave :)
<vinze> jeromeg, it's finished already :)
<jeromeg> oh :)
<jeromeg> that's why nothing happens :)
<vinze> Hehe
<vinze> I'm going to type up a summary in a sec
<jeromeg> great
<cody-somerville> jeromeg, discussion is still strong in #xubuntu-devel
<dthacker-work> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: March 26 2008, 20:10:49 - Current meeting: Xubuntu
<michalski> @tommorow
<TuxCrafter> is the xubuntu-meeting still in process?
<michalski> no
<TuxCrafter> michalski: thanks
<vinze> TuxCrafter, join #xubuntu-devel for more discussion
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 26 Mar 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 28 Mar 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 02 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 09 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 16 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 23 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Server Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 28 Mar 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 02 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 09 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 16 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 23 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Server Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 28 Mar 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 02 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 09 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 10 Apr 20:00 UTC: Security Team meeting | 16 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team
 * mathiaz gets some popcorn for the upcoming server meeting
<sommer> o//
 * keescook waves "hi"
 * owh sips coffee and waves after less than an hour sleep.
 * faulkes- whistles innocently
<soren> o/
 * kirkland tips his hat
<jdstrand>  \o
 * dthacker-work silences his pager....again
<mathiaz> alright - let's get started !
 * nijaba waves
<zul> hello
<mathiaz> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 22:01. The chair is mathiaz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<mathiaz> Today's agenda is located on this wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<mathiaz> If anyone would like to add point to be discussed, please update the wiki page
<mathiaz> and I'll make sure your brilliant idea will be discussed during this meeting
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
<soren> Uh, oh.
<owh> :)
<mathiaz> The previous meeting minutes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20080319
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] iscsi support
<MootBot> New Topic:  iscsi support
<soren> Right..
 * michalski waves but must leave for cadets in 5 mins
<soren> Erm... I forget if we covered this part of it, but slangasek said it'd be fine to do it even now that we're past beta.
<soren> So we're doing it.
<mathiaz> soren: yeah - we said that
<soren> Ok.
<mathiaz> faulkes-: did you manage to get access to your iSCSI hardware ?
<soren> Ah, right last wednesday.
<soren> WEll, I've been on holiday Thursday->Monday, so not a lot has happened since then.
<soren> I'm still trying to wrap my head around what needs to be done to the installer, to make the resulting system figure out that it needs to mount stuff over the network.
<mathiaz> soren: when do you think you'll get something ready for testing ?
<soren> I'm probably going to ask someone with more experience in this area for pointers tomorrow or something.
<soren> If we're lucky, by the end of this week.
<mathiaz> soren: have you discussed with slangasek about a deadline to get it included ?
<soren> Nope.
<mathiaz> soren: I don't think we want to ship this just before RC
<soren> I forget when that is.
<mathiaz> soren: in two weeks and 1 day from now
<soren> Ok. That should be plenty of time.
<mathiaz> soren: RC is three weeks after beta, which was released last thursday
<soren> Got it.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] status action for init script
<MootBot> New Topic:  status action for init script
<mathiaz> kirkland: I think you've updated the Roadmap
 * michalski must go but will leave irc client on and review meeting afterwards
<kirkland> mathiaz: yep.  in brief, we've abandoned this item for Hardy
<michalski> sorry mathiaz, dst
<mathiaz> this whole point was deferred for after Intrepid
<mathiaz> michalski: np
<mathiaz> hum - for Intrepid sorry
<kirkland> mathiaz: will work on in Intrepid, with Keybuk and upstart, possibly a blueprint for UDS Prague
<kirkland> mathiaz: goal remains noble and important!  :-)
<owh> Is there any point in making the patches available for those admins wanting the functionality?
<mathiaz> kirkland: great - we'll discuss that during UDS then
<mathiaz> owh: I don't think so
<mathiaz> owh: it's not worth taking the time to do it IMO
<owh> mathiaz: They have already been written.
<kirkland> owh: leave them attached to bugs in launchpad
<kirkland> owh: if someone is so motivated, they should be able to find them there
<mathiaz> kirkland: right - that's enough I think
<kirkland> owh: and we may well revisit them come Intrepid
<owh> kirkland: Should we add them all to the same lsb bug?
<kirkland> owh: that, or link that one to the other bugs that contain such patches
<mathiaz> kirkland: probably not - upstart doesn't use the system-v init script at all
<kirkland> mathiaz: will the upstart conversion be COMPLETED in Intrepid?
<owh> kirkland: Cool, we'll talk later.
<kirkland> owh: fair 'nuff
<mathiaz> owh: one thing you should do is send them to debian
<owh> I'll action that for me for next week's meeting.
<soren> kirkland: We need to to them all at once.
<owh> mathiaz: And that too.
<mathiaz> owh: if they're accepted there, we'll get them automatically during Intreprid
<soren> kirkland: Well, that's not strictly true..
<owh> mathiaz: Yup.
<kirkland> mathiaz: good idea.
<mathiaz> soren: all at once ?
<mathiaz> soren: I thought it can be done a per package basis
<soren> We need to start at one end and work our way to the other.
<soren> We can't usefully just pick one init script, convert it, pick the next, convert it..
<owh> mathiaz: Technically there is an lsb patch needed before the init script patches will work.
<soren> We need to start at S01foo and work our way to S99 or the other way around.
<kirkland> soren: we were thinking doing it massively in parallel, in that it's very small, compact work that a lot of minimally experienced developers can hack out
<mathiaz> soren: hum - I see your point. Anyway that will be discussed during UDS
<soren> Because from upstart's point of view, starting *all* of rc2.d/S* is just one event.
<owh> soren: kirkland and I targetted those that are installed in hardy.
<soren> So if we pick stuff out from the middle, we can't ensure the ordering.
<mathiaz> [ACTION] owh to attach existing patches to bugs in LP and forward them to Debian
<MootBot> ACTION received:  owh to attach existing patches to bugs in LP and forward them to Debian
<soren> kirkland: Cool.
<owh> Yup
<mathiaz> Great - let's move on.
<soren> kirkland: It's just not very obvious, so I wanted to point it out just to be sure.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Server Survey and Brainstorm
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server Survey and Brainstorm
<nijaba> not much new on that subject
<mathiaz> So I was wondering how these two things were integrating together
<nijaba> faulkes fixed the last 2 bugs
<nijaba> and I packaged limesurvey
<mathiaz> could the survey leverage the brainstorm site ?
<nijaba> what do you mean integrating the 2
<nijaba> how?
<mathiaz> or some of the question of the survey be also presented on brainstorm ?
<keescook> apologies: I continue not to have time to audit limesurvey -- it is at the top of my audit TODO list now, though.
<nijaba> I don't really see how we could link the 2...
<zul> keescook: I did a quick lookthrough for nijaba I didnt go to deep though
<kirkland> mathiaz: I'm not seeing this either...  you'd want to publish nijaba's survey questions as suggestions to brainstorm?
<nijaba> zul: keescook is talking abut a secuorty audit
<mathiaz> nijaba: I don't know how the survey is structured - can some questions be also posted to brainstorm ?
<zul> nijaba: ah
<mathiaz> kirkland: yes
<mathiaz> I didn't mean link in a technical sense - more on the content
<kirkland> mathiaz: the survey is more like "how do you use your linux server?  what kind are they?"  etc...
<nijaba> mathiaz: really, brainstorm is totally different
<kirkland> mathiaz: brainstorm is more like "i want a perpetual motion machine, can you please make ubuntu do one for me?"
<nijaba> we don't ask and vote for ideas in the survey
<mathiaz> nijaba: ok - so don't ask question such as "would you like to see better virtualization?" and so on
<soren> Ooh! Oh! And a pony!
<nijaba> mathiaz: no we don't
<mathiaz> nijaba: it's more about what do you do with ubuntu server ? what is your environment... and so on.
<owh> soren: No, the best one was: "I want Ubuntu to boot on an Apple TV without hacking."
<nijaba> mathiaz: correct
<mathiaz> nijaba: ok - thanks for the clarification.
<mathiaz> I got a question from jono about that.
<soren> owh: Fantastic.
<nijaba> so invite jono to take a test drive of the survey
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] integration of dovecot/postfix sasl
<MootBot> New Topic:  integration of dovecot/postfix sasl
<mathiaz> ivoks: so what's going on there ?
<ivoks> mathiaz: i suggest creating new binary inside of dovecot source package
<ivoks> which would depend on postfix and dovecot-common
<ivoks> problematic part is; how to handle dovecot's configuration
<mathiaz> ivoks: IIRC this was to get around the policy that a package cannot modify another package configuration files
<ivoks> option one is to patch it so it doesn't fail when starting, if there's no postfix installed
<ivoks> option two is to patch dovecot.conf with that new binary
<ivoks> i'm not sure option two is leagal
<soren> Why not?
<owh> ivoks: What about shipping two configurations and launching with the appropriate one?
<ivoks> owh: i was investigating if it is possible to include part of the configuration, but that is not possible
<mathiaz> soren: well - you can't modify from postinst script the conffile of another package
<owh> ivoks: I mean the init.d script can figure out how to start the application appropriately.
<ivoks> mathiaz: well, we already do that in dovecot
<soren> mathiaz: Another binary package? Sure you can.
<ivoks> owh: but, what if user edits dovecot.conf?
<soren> mathiaz: As long as:
<mathiaz> ivoks: yes - that's write - we do that with -popd and -imap
<soren> a) it's from the same source package
<soren> or
<soren> b) the owner package provides a tool to fiddle with it.
 * faulkes- gets coffee
<ivoks> soren: can you give me a solid reference for a)? :)
<mathiaz> soren: in our case if would a)
<mathiaz> ivoks: dovecot does that
<owh> ivoks: You can combine the parts into a running config file and launch with that.
<soren> The purpose of that particular part of the policy is to make sure that anything that happens to conffile foo is under control.
<soren> Sorry.
<soren> Not conffile.
<soren> config file.
<ivoks> right, dovecot.conf isn't a conffile
<mathiaz> dovecot.conf is handled via ucf
<ivoks> right
<soren> Right.
<soren> If you're not using conffiles, it's your responsibility to make sure upgrades are handled sanely etc., etc.
<ivoks> owh: not very easy...
<soren> That's impossible if you're not controlling the changes to it.
<mathiaz> ivoks: I think your proposal to create a new package dovecot-postfix-sasl binary package makes sense
<mathiaz> ivoks: we're already doing similar things in -pop and -imap
<soren> You can do that by providing a tool to do it (think postconf) or if it's all done by packages from the same source package.
<ivoks> mathiaz: right, trough postinst
<mathiaz> ivoks: you can probably base your patch on the code from -pop or -imap
<ivoks> so, everybody in favour of modifying dovecot.conf trough new-binary's postinst?
<mathiaz> ivoks: it's a perl command IIRC
<owh> I'm not convinced its too complicated this late in the game.
<ivoks> mathiaz: well, you have only one 'protocols' in dovecot.conf, but lots of 'server' and 'client'
 * soren dreams of dovecot providing a tool to do this sort of thing
<mathiaz> ivoks: WFM - we're already doing it in the -pop and -imap packages
<mathiaz> owh: good point - that was another issue I was about to raise
<mathiaz> I'm not sure we'll get a FFe for that
 * owh got slapped down with a simple init script patch :)
<mathiaz> It may be too late in the release cycle for that.
<ivoks> mathiaz: imho, that's caused by bad FF process
<owh> ivoks: What happens if you do nothing?
<ivoks> mathiaz: we had patch for tasksel, and it was rejected in the last minute
<ivoks> while, it was available for months
<owh> ivoks: That is, if you make no changes, what breaks?
<mathiaz> ivoks: right.
<mathiaz> owh: nothing
<mathiaz> owh: it's just a new feature
<owh> What about adding a paragraph to the README?
<mathiaz> owh: so the question is whether it will be tested enough
<owh> Non-invasive, simple, etc.
<ivoks> owh: we want to provide out of the box super mail server
<mathiaz> ivoks: I think we should talk to the release team anyway
<owh> mathiaz: So, make the README point to a wiki page.
<ivoks> mathiaz: i agree
<owh> s/README/README paragraph/
<mathiaz> ivoks: so either you can detail your new proposal in the bug and ask the release team about it
<mathiaz> ivoks: or provide a debdiff and attach it to the LP bug and talk to the release team
<ivoks> mathiaz: i'll provide debdiff
<owh> In terms of config file changes, how much effort is involved for a system administrator to make this work?
<mathiaz> ivoks: in the event of refusal, we'd have a debdiff ready for intrepid
<mathiaz> owh: well - the procedure is straightforward
<mathiaz> owh: this is why we want to provide a package to do it ;)
<ivoks> right
<owh> I would be in favour of documenting it, providing a sample config perhaps and moving on.
<sommer> owh: it's documented
<mathiaz> owh: ^^ - yes
<ivoks> owh: feature is documented and well known
<mathiaz> owh: this step is automate it
<ivoks> owh: it's stupid not to provide it by default, when everybody does it manually afterwards :)
<owh> I understand that, but its a new feature.
<owh> What ever you call it :)
<ivoks> s/everybody/everybody that's aware of it/
<mathiaz> [ACTION] ivoks to attach a new debdiff to the LP bug and ask the release team about a FFe
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ivoks to attach a new debdiff to the LP bug and ask the release team about a FFe
<mathiaz> owh: yes.
<owh> I'm not disagreeing with you, just putting up a fight that you're going to have in a few moments with the release team.
<ivoks> deal
<mathiaz> However, even if we don't get it in hardy, we'll get it into intrepid
 * owh is trying to help you strengthen your argument ;)
<ivoks> mathiaz: ok
<mathiaz> ivoks: just keep in mind that it may be rejected for hardy
<ivoks> i'm aware of that
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Documentation and the server guide
<MootBot> New Topic:  Documentation and the server guide
<mathiaz> sommer: Do you start to have feedback from the translators ?
<sommer> mathiaz: yep, got a bunch of spelling mistakes fixed :-)
<nealmcb> :-)
<ivoks> :)
<sommer> there's a bunch of ideas for intrepid in the server team idea pool as well
<mathiaz> Now that the server guide is frozen for hardy, it may be worth spending some time on the wiki pages
<sommer> mathiaz: yep, my plan is to work on the Samba sections I've been putting off... heh
<mathiaz> sommer: is there any progress on the macros to be able to mark the release for which the wiki page is relevant ?
<sommer> mathiaz: not sure, I can check on that though
<sommer> I've heard rumors that the wiki install will be updated?
<mathiaz> sommer: reading through the list of the wiki page on the roadmap, I'd suggest to start with AD integration
<sommer> mathiaz: cool, will do
<mathiaz> sommer: the arrival of likewise-open in hardy should make things much simpler to setup
<sommer> that's been my experience :)
<mathiaz> sommer: could you prioritize the list on the Roadmap and use numbered list instead of a bullet point list ?
<sommer> mathiaz: sure
 * sommer has a thing for bullets
<zul> oh dear :)
<mathiaz> [ACTION] sommer to start working on the wiki page related to samba and update the roadmap list
<MootBot> ACTION received:  sommer to start working on the wiki page related to samba and update the roadmap list
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Virtualization
<MootBot> New Topic:  Virtualization
<mathiaz> soren: anything new on this front ?
 * soren thinks
<jdstrand> didn't a patch make it to allow for bridged networks to work right?
<jdstrand> (and the wiki updated)
<mathiaz> jdstrand: are you refering to hal's patch ?
<keescook> bridged always worked okay (but was recently more well documented)
<soren> Don't think so. Thursday->Monday holiday. Tuesday: Catch up on e-mail. Today: other stuff.
<mathiaz> I was able to setup a bridge network for my server and it works well
<keescook> the hal patch was for odd-ball interfaces (like my VLAN ifaces)
 * jdstrand is not sure what he is referring to, as he hasn't used bridged networking with kvm yet ;)
<mathiaz> soren: right - I've forgot about this..
<soren> mathiaz: :) No worries.
<keescook> on the general virtualization topic, I uploaded a fix so that virt-clone would actually work.  :)
<sommer> keescook: sweet
<jdstrand> keescook: oh and it works well! thanks!
<soren> keescook: Ah, right. Thanks for that!
<soren> keescook: Saved me the trouble :)
<keescook> hehe :)
<mathiaz> keescook: jdstrand so you guys are running all the security testing with kvm now ?
<mathiaz> keescook: jdstrand it may be an interesting story to showcase somehow
<mathiaz> nijaba: ^^
<keescook> mathiaz: yup -- I used jdstrand's conversion tool and uninstalled vmware
<nijaba> mathiaz: noted
<jdstrand> yes
<jdstrand> I have been fine tuning it
<mathiaz> keescook: jdstrand and you're testing desktop apps with it
<mathiaz> ie run with X
<jdstrand> but I have i386 and amd64 and amd64/2 vcpus for all four releases and hardy
<jdstrand> mathiaz: absolutely
<jdstrand> I have ones with just 'ubuntu-standard' and others with 'ubuntu-desktop'
<jdstrand> I now use virt-clone to clone one of my pristine vms so I can do development/patching
<jdstrand> they are *very* handy
<mathiaz> I think that is the main usage for of us, developers
<mathiaz> so documenting it, the same way pbuilder and sbuild are, could be worth
<keescook> mathiaz: yup, it's great.
<jdstrand> and the combination of virt-clone, ubuntu-vm-builder and kvm is *awesome*
<jdstrand> mathiaz: I think soren was woking on an sbuild-kvm
<jdstrand> working
<soren> jdstrand: "working" is a bit of an overstatement.
<jdstrand> or at least thinking about it :)
<soren> Precisely :)
 * jdstrand 'thinks' it would be a good idea
<soren> I have a few ideas, but they've yet to be translated into actual code.
<soren> It's intrepid material.
<soren> (if I do it the way, I'm thinking about doing it)
<mathiaz> Ok - I think that's all for the Roadmap/ReportingPage review
<nealmcb> will there be a jeos iso for hardy 64-bit?  or does vm-builder make the isos not that important?
<mathiaz> nealmcb: jeos images are available for hardy IIRC
<nijaba> nealmcb: no 64b -virtual kernel AFAIK
<nealmcb> for i386, but not 64
<jdstrand> ah yes-- iso testing in kvm worked great last week
<mathiaz> nijaba: correct - I've asked for a amd64 flavour it was declined by the kernel team
<mathiaz> nealmcb: yes - only i386 at the moment
<nijaba> mathiaz: reasoning?
<mathiaz> nealmcb: nothing will change for hardy
<nealmcb> fine - I've always liked the vm-builder better
<mathiaz> nijaba: too late in the release cycle
<nijaba> mathiaz: ok
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Any other business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any other business
<zul> nope
<mathiaz> Anyone has come up with a great idea during this meeting ?
<nijaba> nealmcb: but what we need is the 64b kernel, even with u-v-b
<faulkes-> I'm still waiting on access to our colo to test our iscsi
<kirkland> mathiaz: hmm, i had a thought....
<faulkes-> I'm hoping for that to happen this week
<owh> mathiaz: Just to note that the dovecot bug you asked me to look at I've handed back as it does not appear to relate to hardy.
<nealmcb> nijaba: ooh - hmmm...
<mathiaz> owh: yop - seen that. Thanks for the investigation
<nealmcb> how important is 64 bit for virtualization?
<mathiaz> owh: if you want to keep working on it, you'd have to figure out what's wrong in dapper
<kirkland> mathiaz: with the 5-a-day push, and hardy beta testing ensuing, would it make sense for you or one of the other core members to bring forward a few high priority hardy server bugs in this meeting?
<owh> mathiaz: In my spare life I'll think about it :)
<kirkland> mathiaz: and look for volunteers to solve?
<mathiaz> kirkland: good suggestion
<kirkland> mathiaz: not making this a bug meeting, note.
<mathiaz> kirkland: I'll try to compile a list of the high-profile bug for the server team
<kirkland> mathiaz: but sift a few to the top, and throw out them out here
<mathiaz> kirkland: I'll use the qa-server tag
<mathiaz> kirkland: yes - I think it's important to have a new topic about high profile bug the close we get to release
<owh> mathiaz: What about a general action point to review the hardy-qa bugs regularly.
<mathiaz> owh: I'll update the meeting agenda
<jdstrand> mathiaz, kirkland: here is one-- 155947
<mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz to update the meeting agenda to make sure we review high-profile bugs until release
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to update the meeting agenda to make sure we review high-profile bugs until release
<nealmcb> #155947
<mathiaz> bug 155947
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 155947 in libnss-ldap "ldap config  causes Ubuntu to hang at a reboot" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/155947
<mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz to compile a list of high priority bugs for the server team
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to compile a list of high priority bugs for the server team
<kirkland> jdstrand: yep, just that sort of thing
<kirkland> without making this meeting a complete bug meeting :-)
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time.
<mathiaz> Same time, same place, next week ?
<nijaba> DST comes in next week in europe
<nijaba> that will maje the meeting at 2300 CET
<nijaba> a bit late...
<owh> nijaba: If you make it any earlier, I'll be fast asleep.
<mathiaz> nijaba: ok - so I guess can move back the meeting
 * owh is at UTC+9
<nijaba> argh...
<nijaba> ok, then, let's not change anything
<owh> Unless of course you don't want my scintillating contributions :)
<mathiaz> soren: ^^ ?
 * nijaba thinks we need owh 
 * sommer likes things that scintillate
 * owh gets ready to rub hands to generate some static :)
<soren> Let's move it an hour.
<soren> That's fine.
<mathiaz> soren: 2300 CET for you works ?
<mathiaz> soren: we wouldn't move the meeting time
<nealmcb> soren: did you read about owh/au time also?
<soren> That keeps it at the local time that most of us agreed on back in the day.
<soren> nealmcb: No, sorry.
<mathiaz> soren: It'd stay at 21:00 UTC
<soren> Oh, ok.
<soren> Erm... Well, 2300 CET is ok.
<soren> I don't sleep anyway.
 * nijaba wonders if soren *ever* sleep
<soren> So does my wife.
<nealmcb> soren is a bot
<mathiaz> ok - so next week, same time - 21:00 UTC, same place
<owh> nealmcb: A pretty smart one at that :)
 * nealmcb nods vigorously
<nealmcb> Data with a soul....
<mathiaz> Thanks all and shake well Beta to find all the bugs
<nijaba> thanks mathiaz
<owh> Thanks mathiaz
<sommer> later on all
<jdstrand> thaks mathiaz!
<ivoks> sorry, i fall a sleep
 * nijaba signs off singing "shake it shake it, shake it good"
<ivoks> bye all :)
<mathiaz> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 23:10.
<nealmcb> ivoks: nighty night :-)
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 28 Mar 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 02 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 09 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 10 Apr 20:00 UTC: Security Team meeting | 16 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 23 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-03-27
 * pitti waves
<kwwii> hi pitti
<pedro_> hello!
<pitti> Riddell, MacSlow, mpt: alive?
<mpt> I'm alive
 * MacSlow checks pulse at neck
<MacSlow> pitti, yep :)
 * pitti hugs mpt, how are things in .au?
<Riddell> hi
 * Hobbsee dies
<mpt> pitti, I have no idea, ask Hobbsee :-)
<MacSlow> hi Riddell, kwwii, mpt
<Hobbsee> mpt: you mean nz doens't count as part of au anyway?
 * Hobbsee runs
<pitti> close enough :)
<MacSlow> Hobbsee, last time I read about this, it was listed as unhealty ;)
 * mpt throws a pillow at Hobbsee 
<MacSlow> rehi seb128
<seb128> hey
<Hobbsee> n bnhn
<Hobbsee> erm.  spider.
<Hobbsee> mpt: you missed.  try harder
<Hobbsee> MacSlow: :P
<MacSlow> mpt, "try harder" if she means try bricks?
<Hobbsee> MacSlow: don't kid like that.  people do appear to like breaking me, if they can.
<Hobbsee> MacSlow: don't give them ideas :P
<pitti> so, everyone on board, let's start
<MacSlow> Hobbsee, I hoped to be able to "disguise" that not really understanding english and thus messing up ;)
<pitti> first, actions from previous meeting
<pitti> [14:54]         --> markm (markmurphy@yttrium.canonical.com)                       by assignee
<pitti> argh, sorry
<Hobbsee> MacSlow: heh
 * pitti kicks c&p
<pitti> seb128 to hand out desktop team bugs to people as necessary
<pitti> seb128: how does the desktop bug front look like?
<pitti> this is hardly a measurable item, so I'm just curious
<seb128> pitti: depends of the perspective
<seb128> lot of "would be nice", no really stoppers though
<seb128> s/really/real
<pitti> so, mostly targets of opportunity
<seb128> yes
<pitti> great
<seb128> some annoying issues that we should fix though
<pitti> but, under control?
<pitti> * Keybuk to get contract for compiz bugs sorted
<seb128> well, as said no stopper
<pitti> does anyone happen to know something about this?
<seb128> too many issues to fix everything myself though
<MacSlow> pitti, no clue
<seb128> but we knew it from the start
<pitti> ok, let's ask Scott next week
<seb128> pitti: scott told me the contract details were being sorted
<pitti> seb128: right, it's a matter of prioritizing mostly, and hand off some important ones to other team members
<pitti> seb128: great
<seb128> pitti: right
<seb128> as said we knew from the start it would be though ride this cycle
 * pitti looks at the action list and pats seb on the back
<seb128> and that's why we will keep fixing those issue until 8.04.1
<pitti> * seb128 to fix the labelling of the menu items which are not right and warn translators about the change
<pitti> seb128: you'll stay on hardy until .1, too, BTW?
<seb128> yes
<pitti> I remember that we discussed some of those last week
<pitti> especially transmission, etc., right?
<seb128> pitti: the menu items are half done, the transmission bittorent client is not but that's because some guys are working on getting the next version which has the change or on backporting changes and I'm letting them do the work there
<seb128> I'll check with jdong
<pitti> great
<pitti> seb128: vinagre does not have a name in the menu
<pitti> that seems a little inconsistent, all others in Internet have one
<pitti> but *shrug*
<seb128> ah right
<pitti> the description is quite nice
<seb128> will talk to upstream about this one
<pitti> better than just the name, as for transmission
<pitti> seb128: so, it's vinagre and transmission; the rest looks fairly ok, do you have something else?
<seb128> right
<seb128> right, only those now
<seb128> you can consider it as done
<pitti> accessoires is consistently without an app name
<pitti> the multimedia one is a bit shuffled, but bearable IMHO
<seb128> transmission is waiting for upload and vinagre is a target of opportunity but not really important, no need to keep it on the meeting actions list
<MacSlow> pitti, hm... there's "Tracker Suche"
<pitti> seb128: agreed
<pitti> MacSlow: hm, good point
<pitti> should be "Document search" maybe?
<MacSlow> pitti, shouldn't that be changed too... I mean get rid of "Tracker" there... just "Desktop Suche"?
<seb128> will look to this one too
<MacSlow> pitti, it should be a bit more borad... as it will also find email and IM-conversations
<seb128> but all that seems a bit late to break translations and I'm not sure about it
<seb128> maybe we should just delay to next cycle
<pitti> well, vinagre doesn't matter so much, agreed
<seb128> anyway that's not something worth bothering the whole team about again, I just wanted to have opinions on the topic
<pitti> but people won't know what transmission is, or tracker
<pitti> ok
<seb128> transmission is fixed upstream and the change will go to hardy
<pitti>  * seb128 to use applications, system tools again
<MacSlow> seb128, pitti: "Tomboy Notizen" is of a similar kind... "Tomboy" needs to be skipped there too.
<pitti> hm, not sure about that one
<pitti> MacSlow: ah, heh, I have that uninstalled
<seb128> pitti: about what one?
<MacSlow> seb128, pitti: maybe just go for "Notizen" there.
<seb128> system tools?
<pitti> seb128: apps, system tools; AFAIR that is too intrusive?
<seb128> how intrusive?
<pitti> like, changing it now in hardy
<seb128> I moved gnome-system-monitor there
<seb128> and we have the hardware testing thing
<pitti> ah, that
<pitti> right
<pitti> so, done
<seb128> yes
<pitti>  * asac (action by proxy) to drop nm-tool menu entry
<MacSlow> seb128, I've it (g-s-m) show up twice here.
<pitti> ok, simple thing, it's just dropping the .desktop (or hiding it)
<seb128> slangasek did it this morning
<seb128> MacSlow: weird
<pitti> I just have it once
<MacSlow> seb128, but that's on my desktop which i only recently upgraded to hardy... from gutsy... that machine only was freshly installed once... around dapper iirc
<pitti> Riddell: how do things look at the KDE front, OMG-bug-wise?
 * MacSlow checks on the laptop
<MacSlow> which is a fresh install
<Riddelll> pitti: pretty good
<pitti> yay hardy :)
<Riddelll> a couple of notable issues, both with fixes in progress
<pitti> . o O { it seems to me we had fewer major problems this time, right? }
<pitti> great, that covers the outstanding items
<pitti> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogasawara/qa-hardy-list-archive/sort-by-package/desktop-buglist.html
<pitti> does anyone feel the need to walk through that again?
<seb128> pitti: I've some thing I'm really no happy about if you want issues ;-)
<seb128> the new screen capplet for example
<pitti> or is everyone happy with the bugs on that? in the sense of "yes, they'll be fixed by release"?
<seb128> need to escalade that to slangasek or something though
<pitti> seb128: you mean the screen resolution thing?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> the xrand1.2 capplet
<pitti> that's what we'll get in favor of dropping displayconfig-gtk menu item, right?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> it replaces the old capplet and displayconfig-gtk
<pitti> hm, I only ever use it in vmware, which misdetects the resolution, and it works surprisingly well
<seb128> the issue is that it has no "try and revert" mode and write directly changes
<pitti> ah, unlike displayconfig-gtk
<seb128> so which means, boot an ati box, try to rotate the screen  and say bye to ubuntu
<seb128> your xorg will be corrupted
<pitti> ah, and it saves the mode for next time
<pitti> bummer
<seb128> and restarting will not help since it writes the user configuration
<seb128> so you are good to reinstall
<seb128> that will get us very bad reviews imho
<pitti> is there a bug report about it? I agree that we should get this fixed
<seb128> yes, assigned to bryce and milestoned but he doesn't seem to be wanting to fix it for hardy
<pitti> "apply" should switch to new mode and have you confirm it within 15 seconds or so, otherwise flip back, right?
<seb128> he says that's not easy with the current design
<kwwii> at least make a backup copy of the old config :-)
<seb128> and he wrote to the redhat guys who wrote the code but got no reply
<seb128> pitti: yes
<pitti> what's the name of that source package? or the bug#?
<seb128> bug #197673
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 197673 in gnome-control-center "gnome-display-properties should revert change automatically if not acknowledged" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/197673
<seb128> I've milestoned it
<seb128> but I really think it should be escalated somewhere and considered as a blocker
<pitti> ah, no 'resolution' in subject, that's why I didn't find it
<pitti> seb128: I agree
<pitti> I'll add some suggestions to the bug after the meeting
<seb128> thanks
<pitti> let's discuss that afterwards, shall we?
<seb128> sure
<pitti> everyone else happy with the desktop bug list?
<seb128> seems alright to me
<pitti> kwwii, MacSlow ?
<pitti> much of it are mvo-isms
<kwwii> pitti: yeah, I have a couple of things but I am on top of them
<pitti> gret
<kwwii> pitti: the example-content stuff will not be updated though it seems
<kwwii> the company never got around to it, not sure what is up there
<pitti> kwwii: oh, why not? at least some s/feisty/hardy/ at least?
<kwwii> pitti: to be honest, because we were going to get a company to do it I left it alone
<pitti> rightly so
<kwwii> I guess once the gdm and icon stuff is done I can take a whack at it if there is still time
<MacSlow> pitti, well working on #151395 (sort of part of desktop-effects-profiles) and trying to solve #199380 and #204994.
<pitti> but maybe we can do at least some small tweaks, like update the release name
<kwwii> pitti: right
<pitti> any other agenda items?
<MacSlow> *shrugg*
<pitti> 3
<kwwii> nothing from me
<seb128> pitti: yes
<pitti> 2
 * pitti hugs seb128
<seb128> grrr, I had something I wanted to mention but I don't remember what know
 * pitti chuckles
<MacSlow> 1
<seb128> ah
<MacSlow> :)
<kwwii> hehe, must not have been important
<seb128> shares-admin against nautilus-share
<pitti> 0:1, I'd say?
<ogra_cmpc> time to resort to post-it's on your screen :)
<seb128> we are moving to nautilus-share which user the samba usershare thing
<seb128> right
<seb128> my concern is upgrades
<seb128> if we drop shares-admin what happens to people who configured shared under dapper?
<pitti> n-share doesn't alter smb.conf, while s-a does, I suppose
<seb128> they are left without a way to unshare those?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> s/shared/shares
<pitti> seb128: how does n-share save its configuratin?
<seb128> I'm not sure how much consideration we have for those
<seb128> pitti: under /var/lib/samba/usershares
<seb128> that's one file by share there
<pitti> so it still uses some gksu'isms to store a global configuration?
<pitti> or is it per-user?
<seb128> do you think we should try to consider some automatic migration?
<pitti> if it's a global config, it would certainly be nice
<seb128> neither of those
<seb128> available to sambashare members
<pitti> oh, another system group, yay
<seb128> yes
<pitti> which users aren't in by default
<seb128> and samba add admin users to this group automatically on upgrade
<seb128> 		for USER in `getent group admin | cut -f4 -d:`; do
<seb128> 			adduser "$USER" sambashare
<seb128> 		done
<seb128> ^ samba.postinst
<pitti> hm, sounds like an automatic upgrade is at least possible
<pitti> I think we shuold discuss that with our resident Samba expert slangasek
<seb128> ok
 * pitti <- samba noob :/
<seb128> do we consider that as a stopper to drop shares-admin meanwhile?
<seb128> I'm not sure how much we are concerned by those on upgrades from dapper
<pitti> (or gutsy)
<pitti> IMHO pretty much
<seb128> right
<seb128> I've some other migration concerns but less important
<seb128> those being the .Trash content and the gnomevfs servers
<pitti> seb128: can you do the initial discussion with Steve, and then we'll discuss the implementation?
<seb128> but that's not really meeting material
<seb128> alright
<pitti> maybe on u-devel?
<seb128> let's wait for him to be around
<seb128> other quick other question
<pitti> (u-d@, not #u-d)
<seb128> what's going theme wise in hardy?
 * pitti looks at kwwii
<seb128> scott said that hardy will uses ubuntulooks, is somebody working on reverting the changes?
<kwwii> seb128: the gdm will look very close to how it is now (sabdfl still needs to sign off on it)
<ogra_cmpc> we dont go with murrine ?
<kwwii> it will use ubuntulooks, there were several things which did not look good enough in murrine or clearlooks
 * ogra_cmpc changed the edubuntu themes with beta to use murrine
<kwwii> I do have a new gtkrc for ubuntulooks though
<ogra_cmpc> s/with/pre/
<kwwii> we will aim to get a new theme in for +1
<seb128> kwwii: are you waiting on sponsoring?
<seb128> kwwii: or do you still have changes to do?
<kwwii> seb128: yes, if we use a different theme we need someone to work on it
<kwwii> ahhh
<kwwii> seb128: no, I just need to get all the packages ready and ping you and pitti
<kwwii> :-)
<seb128> speaking about the changes to use ubuntulooks again there
<seb128> that should be an ubuntu-artwork upload to change the default there
<kwwii> hrm, ok I will add that to my list...I talked to mvo about it and I thought he took care of it
<ogra_cmpc> kwwii, is there still a depenmdency that pulls the murrine engine in or do i need to pull it via edubuntu-artwork if i still want it ?
<seb128> kwwii: well, if you don't have pending changes I can do this one
<seb128> ogra_cmpc: human-theme has a depends on it
<kwwii> ogra_cmpc: you will need to set a dependency, I doubt we will ship another theme we do not use unless there is extra space
<ogra_cmpc> seb128, yes, but it didnt sound like that would stay
<kwwii> seb128: the u-art stuff should be final
<seb128> kwwii: ok, I'll just do the change to use ubuntulooks again then, ok?
<kwwii> seb128: cool, I owe you one :-)
<seb128> ;-)
<pitti> so, did I get that right now:
<seb128> pitti: ok, I'm done talking, no extra item to discuss ;-)
<pitti> ACTION: seb128 to initiate a discussion about shares-admin -> nautilus-share upg
<pitti> rade migration with slangasek on u-devel@
<pitti> ACTION: seb128 to prepare theme change back to ubuntulooks
<pitti> ACTION: kwwii to look into updating important bits of example-contents for Hardy
<pitti> , primarily release name
<pitti> sorry for bad line breaks
<seb128> the seb128 actions are alright
<kwwii> seb128: now that I think about it we also need to put the screensaver image in u-art as well
<pitti> ACTION: everyone hug seb128 for single-handedly combatting the desktop
 * ogra_cmpc hugs seb128 
<pitti> same for Riddel for KDE, I think :)
<kwwii> seb128: I cannot think of a better place to put it, it is just one svg
<seb128> kwwii: did you discuss that with ted?
<pitti> ok, anything else to be discussed?
<seb128> no
<kwwii> seb128: yes
 * MacSlow hugs seb128 and feels bad seeing him tackling it alone
<pitti> ok, then KTHXADJOURNED :)
<pitti> thanks everyone
<MacSlow> pitti, ?
<seb128> thanks pitti
<Hobbsee> MacSlow: means "you can go home now"
<pitti> Hobbsee: good idea
 * pitti goes home
 * mpt goes back to sleep
<pitti> there, done
<Hobbsee> MacSlow: or "go find beer"
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> hmm.  sleep.
<Hobbsee> how do i have another uni lecture in just over 7 hours?
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-03-28
<bmk789_> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: March 28 2008, 02:45:41 - Next meeting: MOTU in 1 hour 14 minutes
<nxvl> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: March 28 2008, 03:07:51 - Next meeting: MOTU in 52 minutes
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: MOTU Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 02 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 09 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 10 Apr 20:00 UTC: Security Team meeting | 16 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 23 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team
<nixternal> w00t
<Hobbsee> woo!  motu meeting!
<nixternal> so, who is going to be the minutes monkey for this meeting?
<nixternal> everyone here that is going to participate in this meeting?
<ScottK2> If you start now, yes.
<nixternal> heh
<nixternal> roger that then
<nixternal> #startmetting
<nixternal> if I could only speel
<nixternal> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 05:01. The chair is nixternal.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<nixternal> [TOPIC] Everyone who is here for the MOTU meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Everyone who is here for the MOTU meeting
 * nixternal is here
 * TheMuso is here.
 * superm1 is here
 * tritium is here
 * ScottK2 is here
<nixternal> is that it?
 * Hobbsee is here
<nixternal> alright then, first topic of the evening....
<nixternal> [TOPIC] FeatureFreeze exceptions for bug fix releases: FreezeExceptionProcess says that up to Alpha 6, only releases with new features need FFes. Release team members seem unclear as to whether that remains standing.
<MootBot> New Topic:  FeatureFreeze exceptions for bug fix releases: FreezeExceptionProcess says that up to Alpha 6, only releases with new features need FFes. Release team members seem unclear as to whether that remains standing.
<nixternal> person here that added that?
<nixternal> hrmm, I guess that can be kind of confusing
 * ScottK2 wrote to alpha 6 because that seemed a long way off when he wrote it.
 * Hobbsee would have thought that the sensible thing was until the rc freeze, it was OK
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: agreed.
 * ScottK2 goes off to bed and will be happy with whatever
<nixternal> Hobbsee: +1
<nixternal> ScottK: do you agree until RC?
<ScottK> Sure, but I think it's up to MOTU to decide and motu-release to execute the policy
<superm1> how about up until whenever we have the big freeze that needs manual pushing from archive admins?
<ScottK> Good night.
<superm1> is that RC time or before?
<TheMuso> superm1: Thats rc freeze.
<nixternal> rc
<nixternal> ya
<superm1> okay then, great timing :)
<nixternal> g'nite ScottK
<TheMuso> Just less than 2 weeks.
<nixternal> So the plan is to take FFe until RC then
<nixternal> actually, that is for bug fix only updates that an FFe wasn't waranted, just a quick bug filed for paper trail purposes
<nixternal> [VOTE] Extend Feature Freeze Exception for new upstream bug fixes only to RC
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Extend Feature Freeze Exception for new upstream bug fixes only to RC.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<nixternal> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nixternal. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<superm1> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from superm1. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<Hobbsee> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Hobbsee. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<nixternal> TheMuso?
<TheMuso> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from TheMuso. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<nixternal> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<nixternal> Any other items for this meeting?
<nixternal> alrighty then, meeting adjourned
<nixternal> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 05:14.
<nixternal> a whopping 14 minutes
<nixternal> thanks everyone, I will work up the minute, or minutes rather and email the list
<TheMuso> that was easy.
<Hobbsee> nixternal: i thought there was another agenda item, w.r.t ban evasion and motu
<nixternal> I only see the one topic
<tritium> Hobbsee: what was the issue?
<Hobbsee> nixternal: oh, i thought dholbach was going to add it.
<Hobbsee> nixternal: what the MC does about ban evasion, adn actually giving the MC power to enforce what they decide.
<nixternal> when it came to bans, I swore we^MC said it was in the hands of the IRC Council
<Hobbsee> https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/25770
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 02 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 09 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 10 Apr 20:00 UTC: Security Team meeting | 16 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 23 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 30 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team
<mrevell> all
<Hobbsee> hey mrevell
<mrevell> hey Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> mrevell: what are you doing here? :)
<mrevell> I was typing in the wrong window :)
<Hobbsee> ahhh
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-03-29
<Keybuk> e-hackers
<Hobbsee> heya Keybuk!
<Keybuk> hey
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-03-24
 * persia peers about
<e-jat> wb persia
 * MaWaLe tracks persia
<hito_jp> hi all.
<linuxmalaysia> hi all
<GunbladeIV> hi hito_jp
<umarzuki> hi
<TheMuso> Hey folks.c
<zaafouri> hi
<MaWaLe> hey TheMuso
<MaWaLe> hi folks
<zulmalc_> hi all
<persia> amachu said he'd be late.  Do we have elky and lifeless ?
<PmDematagoda> hello, did I miss the meeting?
<elky> hi
<persia> PmDematagoda, Nope.  We're just getting organised.
<persia> elky, Hey.
<PmDematagoda> persia: ah, thanks :)
<persia> So were waiting for one of lifeless or amachu, and we'll be all set.
<khanh_coltech> hi all :)
<PmDematagoda> hey khanh_coltech
<khanh_coltech> sorry i'm late :)
<PmDematagoda> khanh_coltech: the meeting hasnt started yet
<hito_jp> hi khanh_coltech. dont worry, we are waiting for quorum.
<persia> Hmm.  I think we're waiting for amachu then, who ought arrive around half-past.  lifeless doesn't appear to be here.  So if you're glued to the screen, you may wish to take a short break.
<elky> mmm chocolate caaaake
<elky> persia, that should make them hunt for food ;)
<e-jat> elky: how bout ice cream :)
<linuxmalaysia> yeah. Im feeling hungry now.
<elky> e-jat, none of that in my freezer. i has the cake though. and it's cakey and chocolatey
<umarzuki> i already ate ;-)
 * e-jat still at the office ... freezer empty ..
<elky> sorry, got disconnected. did i miss anything?
<khanh_coltech> elky: nothing :)
<persia> RIght.  amachu was planning to be only 30 minutes late.  I'm tempted to wait around just in case, as I'd like to have had at least one successful meeting this month.
<persia> elky, TheMuso: Are you still good to wait?
<TheMuso> persia: yes
<TheMuso> I'm fine till approx 12:15UTC
<elky> persia, i am. i cant guarantee i wont lag out again though
<ApOgEE-> hi persia
<elky> stupid australian intarwebs
<ApOgEE-> hi e-jat
<ApOgEE-> hi TheMuso
<elky> i need to go about 45 mins earlier than that
<ApOgEE-> hi elky
<ApOgEE-> hi nbliang
<nbliang> hi ApOgEE-
<e-jat> belutz also not here :(
<linuxmalaysia> saya hairan ada 137 in the room
<linuxmalaysia> tapi tak ramai yang bercakap
<linuxmalaysia> :)
<linuxmalaysia> opp sori wrong window
<e-jat> hmm ...
<persia> Hrm.  There's other meetings happening later, and I think we didn't achieve quorum again :(
<elky> yeah. we need that team expansion already
<e-jat> hmm .. i cant contact belutz .. since he bz with something nowday ..
<linuxmalaysia> Maybe ubuntu member from Malaysia can help on that
<umarzuki> minimum applying member needed?
<khanh_coltech> we will still wait?
<ApOgEE-> hi BuffaloSoldier
<BuffaloSoldier> hi ApOgEE-
<ApOgEE-> BuffaloSoldier, how r u doing?
<elky> we need suggestions for nominations of people who are members, who represent the region and are connected enough to know who people are and what is involved with most aspects of contribution
<nbliang> elky, any guide on applying for it?
<elky> if people know who you are and what you do, then they nominate you.
<nbliang> noted
<nbliang> can we nominate them here?
<elky> you may want to check with them first. it's manners to do so.
<ApOgEE-> the nominator is ubuntu member is it?
<persia> nbliang, Also, please nominate by mail to ubuntu-membership-board-asia-oceania@lists.ubuntu.com
<persia> ApOgEE-, Yes.
<ApOgEE-> hi GunbladeIV
<elky> it would be preferable. otherwise random joe 1 could nominate random joe 2
<nbliang> elky: , persia : noted
<GunbladeIV> ApOgEE-, hi ApOgEE- ..
<TheMuso> c
<GunbladeIV> elky, persia : so we will have a meeting due to not enough quorum isnt it?
<elky> now, since the meeting seems like it will not happen, please take random chatter elsewhere so as not to pollute meeting logs.
<GunbladeIV> s/will/will not/g
<elky> GunbladeIV, yes, we lack quorum today
<GunbladeIV> elky, okay.  Hope to be here again next time.(as a candidate)
<umarzuki> when the next will be then?
<elky> two weeks from now.
<GunbladeIV> elky, noted.
<TheMuso> In that case, unless there is anything else from either persia or elky, I shall return to my personal work. :)
<ApOgEE-> uhh
<persia> TheMuso, Good night.
<umarzuki> thanks anyway
<lifeless> persia: elky bah, tz confusion *again*
<lifeless> sorry.
<vorian> @now
<vorian> grr
<persia> vorian, http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar
<vorian> thanks persia
<jkbys> ããã°ãã
<jkbys> oops
<jkbys> wrong chat box, sorry
<mdz> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is mdz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<mdz> Technical Board meeting, 2009-03-24
<mdz> cjwatson,Keybuk,sabdfl: ping
<mdz> dholbach: ping
<mdz> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<sabdfl> hello all
<Keybuk> mdz: I'm here
<cjwatson> here
<mdz> I think we need dholbach for several of these items
<mdz> vorian: are you here?
<vorian> mdz: yes sir
<mdz> cjwatson: can you cover archive reorg?
<mdz> [TOPIC] Archive reorg (and corresponding governance changes)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Archive reorg (and corresponding governance changes)
<cjwatson> I had a phone call with Jono and Daniel to go over it
<cjwatson> Daniel has been working on a timeline as a result of this
<cjwatson> roughly, it puts us doing a transition of developer permissions in June
<cjwatson> there are a number of decisions flagged for TB action along the way
<mdz> anything we should start thinking about now?
<cjwatson> we need to start preparing text about what's going to happen, to help developers
<cjwatson> we need to decide on changes to the developer application process
<cjwatson> and MOTU Council charter review I believe
<cjwatson> we need to decide on a rough process for administering package sets
<cjwatson> later on, we'll need to look at unifying processes for handling new packages
<cjwatson> I'll get Daniel to send some more detail to technical-board@ to kick-start a discussion
<mdz> cjwatson: thanks
<mdz> cjwatson: is there anything we can/should cover in this meeting or shall we move on?
<cjwatson> I think we can move on
<mdz> [TOPIC] Upload permission for Romain Francoise for 'emacs-snapshot
<MootBot> New Topic:  Upload permission for Romain Francoise for 'emacs-snapshot
<mdz> dholbach?
<sabdfl> we won't have package sets for june, so we'll need to fake it on the permissions client
<dholbach> mdz: around
<sabdfl> ach, too slow :-)
<dholbach> mdz: I mailed Romain and offered to help with the application, but got no reply yet
<mdz> dholbach: how long ago?
<dholbach> some time last week
<dholbach> but Emmet mailed him a wek or two before that already
<cjwatson> sabdfl: this is new information, and more pessimistic than I've been hearing from Julian and Muharem
<dholbach> I'll try to locate him together with siretart
<mdz> dholbach: shall we take this off of the TB list for now?  we can consider it MOTU Council territory until we hear otherwise
<dholbach> mdz: yep, that's fin
<dholbach> e
<mdz> thanks
<mdz> [TOPIC] codecs in ffmpeg
<MootBot> New Topic:  codecs in ffmpeg
<mdz> dholbach again
<dholbach> mdz: no news I'm afraid - Amanda is still working on a general policy
<dholbach> Jono and I have been in touch with her, it's still WIP
<dholbach> no due date yet, will ask
<mdz> dholbach: what can we do to help move it forward?
<mdz> perhaps sabdfl would prefer to handle this more informally, I don't know
<sabdfl> cjwatson: ok, i was being pessimistic, if you have better info, i'm happy to go with that
<dholbach> mdz: I don't know - I haven't seen any of that work yet - I can try asking for a more detailed roadmap of the document if you like
<mdz> sabdfl: we've asked for legal guidance on how we should handle this, but it has been stalled for a long time.  should we be doing something different?
<sabdfl> mdz: i don't have good advice for you
<cjwatson> sabdfl: Julian has been steering clear of giving me a firm date as yet, but he's been talking about the guts of the implementation happening during April - of course I'm OK with faking it client-side for the time being if that slips
<cjwatson> (anyway, yes, we've moved on)
<dholbach> mdz: it might help to split up the discussion
<dholbach> mdz: siretart asked me two things: 1) is it good enough to disable the code that has to do with patents or does it need to be purged completely and
<dholbach> 2) which codecs / which patents
<sabdfl> mdz: i'm inclined to split patent claims into the "alleged" and "judge-tested" categories
<sabdfl> we don't have the resources to separate claims except on the basis of court ink
<sabdfl> i think.
<cjwatson> also "expired" in some of these cases (which is not entirely facetious because some have expired in some jurisdictions but not others)
<mdz> sabdfl: one of the questions is, if we have reason to be concerned about a particular patent, how do we respond?  is it OK to skip compiling the relevant code, or do we need to patch it out of the source?
<cjwatson> I sent a mail a while back about the expiry situation of one of the ffmpeg patents
<sabdfl> compile it out
<mdz> cjwatson: indeed, jono has that email
<cjwatson> of course, there is a well-known effect where a submarine holder pops up just before its expiry date, so "about to expire" is not de facto safe
<mdz> dholbach: sabdfl has answered 1) above
<dholbach> mdz: ok, I'll relay that to  siretart
<mdz> sabdfl: what do you think we should do in each of those circumstances (alleged, judge-tested, expired)?
<sabdfl> about to expire - jfdi
<sabdfl> expired - ship it
<sabdfl> judge-tested - escalate and consider
<sabdfl> in each case, there would be an assessment of jurisdiction
<sabdfl> if there is a judge-tested patent in andorra, would we not ship it? i think we would
<sabdfl> this makes it very hard for me to say anything other than "we should review the cases"
<sabdfl> so, who's "we"?
<sabdfl> best answer i have there is canonical legal
<dholbach> sabdfl: how do you think this process is going to work? "if concerned bring up with TB, they then get in touch with Canonical legal"?
<sabdfl> that's a reasonable start, imo
<cjwatson> realistically I suspect most of the interesting cases are going to be US and EU, with the odd case where it's expired in some jurisdictions but not others
<cjwatson> sorry, US and/or EU
<sabdfl> sorry that i can't provide stronger guidance
<sabdfl> actually, maybe i can
<mdz> sabdfl: I think the most common case is "alleged", so we most need the guidance there
<sabdfl> but i need to caucus with Amanda on that
<sabdfl> in general, i think any patent holder making such an allegation should raise it with the TB
<sabdfl> i think third-party allegations aren't going to be sufficiently tangible for us to be able to invest time in parsing and considering them
<sabdfl> i.e. if someone comes along and says "there is a patent that i think covers this code", i don't think we can usefully invest a lot of time in that
<cjwatson> we need to split that into two cases: (1) code already in Ubuntu (2) code not already in Ubuntu
<sabdfl> if someone comes along and says "i have a patent that i believe covers this code", then that's more manageable
<mdz> that leads to a process like "the TB maintains a record of any patent allegations.  if a developer has a question or concern regarding a certain patent, they should contact the technical board, who will advise as to whether they are aware of an issue.  anyone who becomes aware of an allegation should forward it to the TB"
<cjwatson> for (1) I agree; for (2) this guidance sounds like "ship it until we have good reason to believe we may not" but I would like clarity there as there are cases where complying with a cease-and-desist will be difficult
<sabdfl> cjwatson: any cease-and-desist would be very difficult for us. copyright. trademark. patent. url-prefix.
<sabdfl> we don't control the mirror network
<cjwatson> indeed, so some level of avoidance is rational, but not necessarily panic-level avoidance
<sabdfl> are you worried about specific cases more than others?
<cjwatson> no, just a general point that I would like to avoid getting into a situation where we have to pull an Ubuntu release
<sabdfl> msft's suit against tom-tom - does that mean we should remove FAT support from Hardy?
<sabdfl> i think not, myself
<cjwatson> presumably the amount of risk we're willing to take depends somewhat on the usefulness of the technology to us
<cjwatson> FAT is extremely useful; an individual media codec, say, may be less so
<sabdfl> well, a lawyer could turn that into "presumably our willingness to steal depends on the value of the jewels"
<cjwatson> granted
<sabdfl> and i don't think that would be a correct characterisation of our approach
<sabdfl> i would say that our approach is more "we will engage with rights holders openly"
<cjwatson> in the msft case I'm not sure the facts are clear yet, nor that msft has made any kind of general statement about the situation of fat
<sabdfl> so far, we haven't had any rights-holders engage with us
<sabdfl> they've said that this suit is NOT a prelude to a general series of suits
<sabdfl> but, they've also acted in ways that suggest it might be
<sabdfl> however, microsoft violates many patents, and is often found in court to be doing so
<cjwatson> what I meant by (2) above was a process for archive administrators to follow when dealing with new packages that are alleged to have some level of patent risk associated with them
<mdz> I suggest we wrap up this topic in the next 5 minutes to allow time for the rest of the agenda
<sabdfl> so, i'm sure they would have raised any issues with us that they are concerned about, being familiar with the system
<cjwatson> in that case, the rights holder is not going to have engaged with us yet, since we aren't shipping it yet
<sabdfl> good point
<sabdfl> ok, for shipping code, we'll engage with rights holders
<sabdfl> for code that is proposed, allegations or concerns should be raised with the TB
<sabdfl> and we'll decide what to do
<sabdfl> perhaps in consultation with canonical-legal or SFLC or OIN
<mdz> sabdfl: ok, that brings us full circle.  siretart has raised a concern with the TB and we need to decide what to do :-)
<sabdfl> thanks mdz :-)
<sabdfl> are there any new codecs proposed for inclusion in ffmpeg for jaunty?
 * dholbach doesn't know
<mdz> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/254201
<cjwatson> siretart: ^- ?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 254201 in ffmpeg-debian "feature regression: ffmpeg lacks some video encoders (like h263+, MPEG4, maybe more...)" [Undecided,Fix released]
<mdz> it looks like, in the absence of guidance from the TB, several codecs have been disabled
<sabdfl> can they be split into a separate package, easily enough?
<mdz> they have been, see the bug
<mdz> it's now split between main and multiverse
<sabdfl> can we detect when a codec is needed, that is available in another package, and prompt the user?
<cjwatson> we do
<mdz> I don't know how it's currently implemented in this case
<cjwatson> or at any rate totem does
<sabdfl> does the prompt say "this functionality may be subject to a patent, your rights may vary based on your location"? then i think this is fine.
<mdz> cjwatson: my hunch is that that doesn't cover this case
<cjwatson> nevertheless, some of these codecs are rather old and the more we can ship in the default install the better users' experience will be
<cjwatson> mdz: mine too, I see mention of things like Empathy
<mdz> totem will install gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg, which is dependent upon libavcodec52 | libavcodec-unstripped-52
<cjwatson> mm, of course
<mdz> the latter is complete, the former not
<cjwatson> and it has to be that way round for a variety of reasons
<mdz> so this is a regression
<sabdfl> i would be inclined to say, that if we have not heard from alleged rights holders for an extended period of time, and a patent is near expiration, then code can be shipped as part fo the default install
<mdz> we have to close this topic for now so that we can move on
<mdz> vorian is waiting
<sabdfl> ok
<mdz> cjwatson/sabdfl: can one of you take an action to write up what you just agreed?
<sabdfl> i can do that and mail the TB
<mdz> [ACTION] sabdfl to document consensus regarding policy and process for patent concerns
<MootBot> ACTION received:  sabdfl to document consensus regarding policy and process for patent concerns
<mdz> thanks
<mdz> [TOPIC] Steve Stalcup (vorian) for ubuntu-core-dev
<MootBot> New Topic:  Steve Stalcup (vorian) for ubuntu-core-dev
<mdz> [LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/private/technical-board/2009-February/003011.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/private/technical-board/2009-February/003011.html
<mdz> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StephenStalcup/CoreDeveloperApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StephenStalcup/CoreDeveloperApplication
<cjwatson> we're a little late here, having dropped the ball when motu-council first notified us
<cjwatson> Steve reminded me about this after the last meeting so I put it on the agenda
<mdz> sorry, better link for the first one
<mdz> [TOPIC] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2009-February/002033.html
<MootBot> New Topic:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2009-February/002033.html
<vorian> thanks cjwatson :)
<mdz> vorian mentioned Riddell as a present sponsor
<mdz> Riddell: are you here?
<Riddell> hi
<Riddell> I entirely advocate vorian, he's a very capable packager and extreamly useful member of the kubuntu ninjas (KDE packaging team)
<Keybuk> brb
<Riddell> he took over much of the ninjas process when apachelogger had to leave so has filled in an important gap
<Riddell> but it would be useful to have more of us who can upload to main so it's not reliant on me for that
<Riddell> and vorian is a top candidate there
<cjwatson> vorian: you described a period of frustration while you were learning about packaging. As a core developer you would be looked to for advice by up-and-coming packagers. How would you advise them to approach getting started?
<Keybuk> back
<vorian> cjwatson: I would first try and understand where their frustrations lay.  It could be one of may areas.  Then help them learn the next small steps
<mdz> vorian: what is the current freeze status of jaunty, and what are some examples of what you should and should not upload at the present time?  how about next week?
<cjwatson> vorian: (what were your areas of frustration?)
<vorian> mdz: well, we are in beta freeze at the moment. any main package upload is really not a good idea. universe bug fixes are ok as long as they have a ffe and are accepted by an archive admin
<sabdfl> vorian: "not a good idea" meaning no packages should be uploaded?
<mdz> vorian: (feel free to finish answering cjwatson before moving on to my question)
<vorian> cjwatson: i had trouble with the jargin, once I was able to pick up the lingo - it was easy going
<cjwatson> mm, I agree that the Ubuntu development community is often rather too jargon-heavy
<sabdfl> vorian: which main packages would you like to work on between now and the end of next week, and how would you coordinate that?
<vorian> not a good idea as in none
<vorian> sabdfl: KDE 4.2.2 is being released next Tuesday, so for the rest of this week and into next, I'll be working on the core stack
<sabdfl> will those packages land in main pre-release? when, and what would be done differently given the timing?
<JontheEchidna> KDE 4.2.2 is actually being released exactly a week from tomorrow, coincidentally
<cjwatson> vorian: pretend I know nothing about libdb - can you explain to me what the difficulty is in moving applications to new libdb versions?
<vorian> cjwatson: ok
<cjwatson> vorian: (like mdz said above, feel free to finish answering sabdfl before moving on to my question)
<mdz> (my question still needs more answering)
<vorian> sabdfl: we will be needint lots of pre-uploading quality checking given the freeze
 * nixternal notes to cjwatson everyong pretends they know nothing about libdb :)
<vorian> needing*
<vorian> mdz: sorry,
<mdz> vorian: no worries, we threw a lot of questions at you at once
<mdz> we should be more organized
<mdz> or perhaps, we're doing a good job at simulating the real-world chaos of ubuntu development ;-)
<vorian> mdz: after beta is released, all packages will need freeze exceptions - and archive admin approval - after a thoruough job of qa and testing is done
<vorian> :)
<vorian> mdz: true :)
<cjwatson> nixternal: wouldn't be much of a test if I didn't know the answer ;-)
<vorian> cjwatson: as for libdb, pretend each version is called something else (ie, 4.2 == apple, 4.3 == orange, 4.4 == pear, etc..)
<mdz> vorian: you said that during beta freeze, uploads to main were not a good idea.  however, you can see on jaunty-changes that uploads are still happening
<vorian> there are a set of packages that depend on "apple" and we are trying to get rid of "apple" so we see if they will build and function with "pear"
<cjwatson> hey, that's not a bad analogy. What do applications have to do when transitioning from one to another?
<mdz> vorian: mvo uploaded update-manager just today.  did he make an error?
<cjwatson> e.g. source changes, dependency changes, making sure database contents are preserved accurately, etc.
<vorian> mdz: I understand that during the beta freeze, there is testing done and bugs related to the release are still uploaded.
<vorian> as for ISO's and upgrades
<mdz> vorian: bugs related to the beta release?  or to the 9.04 release?
 * vorian is not 100% sure
<mdz> vorian: where would you go to find either of those lists of bugs?
<mdz> (you can finish answering cjwatson first)
<vorian> i would go to qa.ubuntu.com
<mdz> we're over time but I would like to finish here rather than carry over to the next meeting
<mdz> Keybuk: any questions for vorian?
<cjwatson> I don't see any relevant links on qa.ubuntu.com ...
<Keybuk> mdz: none from me, you both covered the basics
<cjwatson> aside from the one to Launchpad
<mdz> no, I don't think that the release bug list is available there (though maybe it should be)
<mdz> cjwatson: heh, you mean href=http://launchpad.net/ ? :-)
<mdz> that is not a very useful link
<cjwatson> quite
<vorian> i don't know that link, however i find the list of bugs next to each iso test useful at times
<cjwatson> ah, yes, that is a useful resource
<cjwatson> (I'm still waiting for an answer to my libdb transitioning question, fwiw)
<vorian> ah, sorry
<vorian> Applications must not have any regressions when moving from one depends or build-depends
<vorian> so, firstly it must build correctly, all files being built and installed correctly in the binaries
<vorian> then it must install correctly on ones system
<cjwatson> sorry, I don't want to spend too much time on this, but I should clarify that I'm specifically asking about what changes need to be made, not how those changes should be tested
<vorian> and must behave *just* as it always has (given it isn't riddled with bugs)
<mdz> we're well over time
<cjwatson> I don't feel that my question has been answered
<vorian> with libdb, it was a matter of changing the version in control
<cjwatson> ah, typing lag
<mdz> vorian: I think cjwatson is looking for a more specific answer
<mdz> (note: sabdfl had to leave to make another meeting)
<mdz> and I will need to do the same shortly
<cjwatson> there are some applications that need more than simply being recompiled against the new version of libdb, for instance
<vorian> cjwatson: about the specific changes to the package?  I changed the applicable versions in the debian/changelog.  No source changes were needed with many.  If there were, I tried to get it done upstream, as opposed to patching them
<vorian> cjwatson: is that more what you are looking for?
<cjwatson> well, not really, I was looking for the sorts of changes that would actually need to be made to the code, and how you would recognise when this needs to be done
<mdz> sorry, folks, but we need to wrap this up
<cjwatson> but I realise that we're over time
<mdz> cjwatson,Keybuk: how would you like to proceed?
<cjwatson> shall we go to a vote?
<mdz> vorian: I'm not very confident that we can approve your application based on the Q&A so far
<vorian> ok
<cjwatson> my vote was going to be 0: I've not really been very satisfied with the answers to the questions I asked; on the other hand my belief is that vorian is conscientious and will ask when he's out of his depth, and it's clear that he knows what he's doing with Kubuntu and will be a valuable contributor there
<vorian> I'm done then
<nixternal> WHAT?
 * nixternal head desks
<mdz> nixternal: will you talk to him once he calms down?
<cjwatson> blink, and I was going to suggest things that could be improved
<nixternal> mdz: sure thing
<nixternal> I will give him a call later this afternoon
<mdz> nixternal: please let him know that we would like to help him complete the process in time
<cjwatson> (FWIW, the answer to the question I was pressing on is on [[https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap#Get rid of old libdb versions]], so I don't feel it was unfair)
<mdz> (sorry, was having a side conversation with nixternal)
<nixternal> hehe, ya just saw that and responded :)
<mdz> we need to wrap up, we'll carry over the remaining agenda item to next week
<mdz> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:22.
<nixternal> thanks guys and I am sorry that he just left like that, I will chat with him a little later
<cjwatson> that was disappointing; I hope he calms down
<nixternal> ya, I have never seen him emotional/upset like that in 2+ years
<nixternal> and in person
<mdz> these things happen, we'll work it out
<cjwatson> I got the impression he froze up a bit under pressure of questions
<cjwatson> so perhaps we should consider a different format
<nixternal> hehe, I referred to it as a "Feeding Frenzy"
<cjwatson> since pressure of questions is not really the best model for Ubuntu development
<cjwatson> (at least not with a time limit measured in minutes)
<nixternal> right
<davmor2> cjwatson: maybe a mentor for a month
<mdz> I've long felt that the format for this is not really ideal
<mdz> the alternative, I think, is something much more structured and heavyweight like NM
<nixternal> I always liked teh NM way
<pgraner> About time to start the weekly kernel IRC meeting...
 * manjo waves
 * cking is here
 * ikepanhc waves
 * lieb is here
 * maco is watching
 * smb_tp hastly arrives
 * sconklin -
<pgraner> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is pgraner.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<pgraner> [TOPIC] Open Action Items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Action Items
<pgraner> awe to report back to kernel-team on LPIA testing status
<pgraner> awe: Any update?
 * apw is here
<awe> pgraner: i've built the latest lpia kernel and tested on the hp mini
<awe> pgraner: looks good.  i'm about to send an email to the team to try and get more coverage across other netbooks
<pgraner> awe: great... thanks, pls email kernel-team and give us the thumbs up when complete
<pgraner> [ACTION] awe to inform kernel-team when LPIA kernel testing is complete
<MootBot> ACTION received:  awe to inform kernel-team when LPIA kernel testing is complete
<awe> pgraner: ok, will send an update to the mailing list in time for next week's mtg
<pgraner> * apw to inform ogasawara when revised CFT can go out
<pgraner> apw: you good to go?
<ogasawara> pgraner: apw and I agreed there was no added benefit for another CFT since the script isn't integrated into checkbox, only packaged with it.  we end up manually running the same script anyways.
<apw> we have done some testing with the installed version and it seems to be identicle (as it should be)
<pgraner> ogasawara, apw: sounds reasonable
<pgraner> * smb to send manjo bug on Dell server hw issue on Hardy
<smb_tp> done
<manjo> yes
<pgraner> * ogasawara to issue CFT around ext4 data loss patches
<manjo> waiting on hardware to become available
<ogasawara> pgraner: that one missed my todo list last week.  although comments from the bug indicate the patches fix the issue.
<pgraner> ogasawara: I'd highlight it when Beta goes live, this way we can get some extra eyes on it
<ogasawara> pgraner: sounds good.  I'll make sure it gets noted
<pgraner> There are a few outstanding actions on the list but they will get resolved at the Kernel Sprint next week. So I will drop them from the IRC meeting agenda
<pgraner> There is only one that needs to be brought up here:
<pgraner> sconklin create wiki page showing lpia source structure and repos for various releases
<pgraner> sconklin: ETA on that?
<sconklin> pgraner: after Lex sprint
<pgraner> sconklin: ok, do you want me to keep it on the agenda?
<sconklin> pgraner: no need to, I think
<pgraner> sconklin: ack
<pgraner> Moving on then...
<pgraner> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels
<smb_tp> This week not much. I am still mostly stuck with CVE and Hardy proposed is stuck in the accept queue with some hope to be released tomorrow.
<pgraner> smb_tp: ok.. when do you expect the Intrepid updates to slow down
<sconklin> smb_tp: I still don't know what wil/should get pulled into the hardy branch from that
<apw> sounds like something to discuss at sprint
<smb_tp> pgraner, Ours? We are actually down to just fixing the regression bugs
<smb_tp> So it is slowed down
<smb_tp> sconklin, From what?
<sconklin> hardy security updates
<pgraner> smb_tp: 2.6.27-14.30, was very hefty
<smb_tp> I would would have to have a look, but I think that was the last one which included stable releases from upstream
<smb_tp> No actually that were not that many new ones
<pgraner> smb_tp: ok, we need to revisit the stable updates frequency at the sprint
<smb_tp> pgraner, 6 including a revert
<apw> smb_tp, yes it was the one wich included 27.18 stable update amongst others
<smb_tp> pgraner, What you probably see is the changlog currently including all updates since the last release to updates
<pgraner> smb_tp: Ok, then I'm reading the change log wrong it looks to be about 25+ changes
<pgraner> smb_tp: Thats broke then
<smb_tp> pgraner, Not broke but as done for stable updates
<pgraner> smb_tp: we should be able to see exactly what went in to the upload clearly
<smb_tp> We are aksed to include the full history up to the last point the kernel was released to updates
<cjwatson> pgraner: what are you using to look at the changelog?
<pgraner> smb_tp: thats fine however we should be able to see whats in each rev
<smb_tp> You should see that. But maybe its simple to miss the start of the previous uploads
<pgraner> smb_tp: ok we'll take it offline
<pgraner> [TOPIC] Jaunty Status
<MootBot> New Topic:  Jaunty Status
<smb_tp> pgraner, ack
<pgraner> rtg: how do we look?
<rtg> pgraner: the only serious issue that I'm aware of is a degraded raid boot problem.
<rtg> apw, anything else that you can think of?
 * apw scans the list
<rtg> it looks the ARM AA issue was solved
<apw> nothing i can think of right now
<pgraner> rtg: how is kerneloops & crashdump looking?
<rtg> I'm looking at kexec-tools on 32 bit.
<apw> there is some new stuff coming in about the CRDA stuff, but only affecting people who used the old options
<rtg> 64 bit still appears to work.
<apw> so not very serious
<pgraner> apw: ack
<rtg> so, no show stoppers.
<apw> the degraded raid problem has just resurfaced having looked fixed
<pgraner> rtg: how is kerneloops? working as advertised?
 * apw notes it is not installed on his machine, which is at the latest jaunty
<rtg> pgraner: dunno, I though someone in the foundation team took that on?
<manjo> pgraner, I did some testing last fri
<pgraner> rtg: for Karmic, we still have it for this release
<pgraner> manjo: working?
<manjo> and I sent you a mail with the test results last fri
<manjo> yes working as advertised
<pgraner> manjo: ok, I'm still on Thurs. mail
<manjo> except for the fact that with broken
<apw> manjo, did you have to opt in to get it, ie install it manually?
<manjo> synaptic mouse you will get
<manjo> false positives
<apw> manjo, that is fixed in the next kernel upload which removes the warning
<manjo> apw, yes
<pgraner> manjo: ok, I'm assuming there is a bug filed on that?
<manjo> pgraner, ^^
<pgraner> manjo: ack
<apw> so we should be good for beta
<apw> manjo, did your testing incldue whether it uploaded to the real kerneloops web site?
<manjo> no I used the script from lieb to use local
<manjo> but I think the 1st couple of attempts I made were with kerneloops.org
<apw> might be nice to get a test to the real site done (but we can discuss offline)
<manjo> k
<pgraner> manjo: we should ping Arjan and ask him how we can test the actual submission
<manjo> pgraner, ack
<pgraner> [ACTION] manjo to ping Arjan on kerneloops submission testing
<MootBot> ACTION received:  manjo to ping Arjan on kerneloops submission testing
<pgraner> apw: How are we doing on Suspend/Resume, both bug triage and bug repair?
<apw> We have put together a basic Trigage and Debugging guide for suspend/resume
<apw> and hibernate/resume, so we can simply point apport bug reports at
<apw> a simple wiki page.  This should allow quicker triaging at our end:
<apw>   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingKernelSuspendHibernateResume
<apw> i have pushed the button on a number of the bugs, and i believe manjo has been helping out too
<apw> will take a few days to get through the backlog.  then we can review the progress
<manjo> yes I am looking at a list of 75 odd bugs apw pointed me to
<ogasawara> apw:  I'll help sorting through those
<apw> ogasawara, that would be cool.  i have a one liner i paste in to start them on the path
<manjo> apw, most of the bugs are opened as kerneloops but I can see no oops msg in the logs
<apw> "Could you please follow the triage and debugging guide (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingKernelSuspendHibernateResume) and report back here."
<apw> manjo, yes they have that tag, but they are a separate class
<manjo> k
<apw> we do need to do some more work on the tags to help us tell them appart
<apw> pgraner, could you action me to talk to pitti on the direction there
<pgraner> [ACTION] apw to talk to pitti about tags in apport
<MootBot> ACTION received:  apw to talk to pitti about tags in apport
<apw> ack
<pgraner> Ok, moving on
<pgraner> [TOPIC] ARM
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM
<pgraner> amitk, bradF: hows things?
<bradF> pgraner: looks like the AA issue just turned out to be a config dependency issue
<bradF> pgraner: will submit a patch shortly
<cooloney> pgraner, right, i can confirm that
<pgraner> bradF: are we turning it on post beta or just running with out it for the release?
<amitk> with that patch, the babbage kernel should be good *with* AA support
<rtg> pgraner: post beta
<pgraner> cool
<pgraner> Any other ARMism we should know about?
<amitk> also two flavours have been ripped out, so we now ship with 4 flavours
<amitk> this should be in the beta kernel
<pgraner> 4? I thought it should be 3?
<rtg> amitk: we're native on Babbage now, right?
<amitk> iop32x, versatile, ixp4xx and imx51
<amitk> rtg: yes we are
<pgraner> amitk: whats the iop32x? Do we have hw?
<amitk> yes, thecus
<amitk> there are a few in the company
<cooloney> pgraner, lool has the iop32x hardware
<amitk> and it is fixed and works
<pgraner> amitk: when I asked the mobile team yesterday they did not raise it as being dropped
<pgraner> amitk: ok, I don't want to get into a support issue for hw thats not on the roadmap
<amitk> pgraner: not sure about your chat with mobile team
<amitk> but iop32x was not on the chopping block yesterday
<pgraner> amitk: when dropping the other flavors I listed 3 flavors to them (davidm) and there was no objection
<rtg> iop32x being one of them?
<bradF> pgraner: which 3 did you talk about?
<cooloney> pgraner, amitk i guess iop32x is for next release karmic
<pgraner> rtg: yes I asked you about it yesterday, and you said you were going to talk to amitk
<cooloney> lool said to me they thought iop32x might be dropped for karmic
<amitk> pgraner: seems to be a miscommunication. I don't seem to have recommended iop32x on the chopping block since I knew we had some HW and it worked
<cooloney> not jaunty
<pgraner> It is what it is for beta. We'll take it up in person next week.
<amitk> akc
<cooloney> amitk, right
<amitk> not much else here
<pgraner> [TOPIC] LPIA
<MootBot> New Topic:  LPIA
<pgraner> sconklin: what say you?
<sconklin> I resynced from the netbook trees again, everything else is scheduled for the sprint
<pgraner> sconklin: ack
<pgraner> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs
<pgraner> ogasawara: ^^^^^^^^^^ you're up.
<ogasawara> pgraner: 4 bugs to note . . .
<ogasawara> bug 337929 - reporter notes this affects jaunty as well as intrepid-proposed
<ogasawara> bug 346691 - points to possible git commit causing the issue
<ogasawara> bug 299708
<ogasawara> bug 344812
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 337929 in linux-backports-modules-2.6.28 "ieee80211_regdom=EU now causes oops after latest update" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/337929
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 346691 in linux "jaunty kernel 2.6.28-11 kernel destroy system" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/346691
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 299708 in dell-mini "Update linux kernel to 2.6.24.21.23 in dell-mini" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/299708
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 344812 in linux "general protection fault in i915_gem_leavevt_ioctl" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/344812
<ogasawara> the first two appear to be regressions
<rtg> destroy system seems kind of harsh.
 * amitk likes the title of bug 346691 :-)
<apw> ogasawara, i have the first one, looks like its an interaction between CRDA settings in the kernel and l-b-m
<rtg> apw: it shouldn't cause an oops, though
<apw> right, clearly a bug
<apw> on the i915 thing, there is a lot of instability all over the map
<apw> in i915 users right now, looking like its appeared since 2.6.28-8
<rtg> apw: stable updates has a bunch of i915 stuff
<apw> thats all in 2.6.28-11 though right?
<rtg> no, its on deck
<rtg> waiting until after Beta is released
<apw> ahh so in our tree but not released?
<rtg> correct
<ogasawara> I'll post a comment to that bug then to retest after Beta
<apw> ok, excellent, as one of those affected, i'll go make a kernel from our tip for "us" to test
<manjo> apw, I saw some i915 erros in the netbooks
<rtg> ogasawara: the dell mini bug is kind of bogus.
<apw> so i'll get you a copy of the kernel too
<ogasawara> rtg: is it getting the security updates?
<rtg> its an OEM team update issue. don't they supply the kernel?
<pgraner> rtg: depends on if they are running stock ubuntu or not
<apw> i believe it may become our problem once we take over the netbook trees
<pgraner> apw: wrong it will be sconklin's prob :-D
<rtg> in the meantime I vote we stick awe with it.
 * apw was being nice to sconklin 
<awe> ;/
<cking> heh
<pgraner> ogasawara: anything else?
<sconklin> apw: why should you be?
<ogasawara> pgraner: nope, that's it
<sconklin> :)
<pgraner> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<pgraner> Floor is open
<apw> rtg althogugh there were drm updated in 28.9, actually they were all already applied and there is zero drm delta from what i have installed to the top of our jaunty tree
<rtg> karmic is updated to 2.6.29, but doesn't compile yet.
<rtg> apw: yeah, I did cherry-pick some stuff
<apw> i presume karmic will stablise for a bit now .29 has hit the shelves
<pgraner> rtg: we will need to back usbstorage out of the monolithic kernel and make it a module
<rtg> pgraner: you'll have to convince me why thats a good idea.
<pgraner> rtg: its causing issues with some 3g cards and the only way to give it module params
<pgraner> rtg: is to give it on the grub command line
<apw> can you not supply those params on the kernel command line via grub?
<rtg> maybe we should fix the 3G drivers
<pgraner> apw: yea but it breaks the hal set up as it tries to pass params as part of the loading
<pgraner> rtg: there is no 3g driver usbserial is it
<apw> ick
<pgraner> rtg: in the cases that are broke
<keffie_jayx> tu-hn
<pgraner> rtg: the option driver drives 80% of the cards the others are with usbserial
<rtg> I _really_ like having USB built in, it solves so many other issues.
<pgraner> rtg: not USB, just usbserial
<cooloney> pgraner, making usbstorage as a module is ok for imx51 babbage board?
<rtg> um, you wanted usbserial for console debug, you're willing to lose that?
<apw> hrm, that was the one which was essential built in for early usb serial console
<cooloney> sometimes, we needs to boot up with rootfs on usb disk
<amitk> cooloney: no problem for imx51, we will have initramfs
<pgraner> rtg: we're gonna have to or regress users, and work them around with a crappy grub commandline
<cooloney> amitk, ok, i see
<rtg> pgraner: but you'er only talking about usbserial, right?
<pgraner> rtg: we can build custom debug kernels with usbserial
<pgraner> rtg: yes
<rtg> pgraner: ok, I'm fine with that.
<cking> ..we don't use usbserial that much do we?
<pgraner> rtg: I'll send you the bug number
<cking> ..for debug that is
<amitk> cking: it is a debug method of last resort
<rtg> when pgraner said usbstorage I though there  was some crack involved.
<cooloney> cking, i use usbserial to talk my babbage borad
 * cking has used to for kernel debug too
<pgraner> rtg: sorry that was a typo
<rtg> cooloney: you can also build your own kernels
<rtg> pgraner: have you files a bug?
<rtg> filed*
<cooloney> rtg, do you mean kernel for babbage?
<pgraner> rtg: yep
<rtg> pgraner: stick me on it?
<cooloney> i can build it with cross compiler
<pgraner> rtg: I'll dig it up and send it to you
<rtg> pgraner: just assign it too me.
<pgraner> rtg: ack
<pgraner> [ACTION] pgraner to assign usbserial bug to rtg
<MootBot> ACTION received:  pgraner to assign usbserial bug to rtg
<pgraner> Anything else in open discussion
<rtg> cooloney: I meant that ,in general, you can build your own kernels with special debug features such as usbserial
<cooloney> rtg, yeah, i can do that
<apw> nothing here
<rtg> done?
<lieb> or here
<sconklin> nil
<cking> silence
<pgraner> [TOPIC] Next Meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Next Meeting
<cooloney> rtg no
<cooloney> i dont touch usbserial things in kernel
<pgraner> Since we are all at the sprint I propose that we cancel the meeting for next week and resume on 7 Apr.
<apw> ack
<manjo> ask
<smb_tp> ack
<cooloney> just usb usbserial in my pc not babbage board
<rtg> especially since most of us will be traveling on Tues
<cooloney> ack
<ikepanhc> ack
<cking> indeed
<bradF> ack
<pgraner> Ok next meeting on 7 Apr.
<pgraner> Thanks everyone...
<pgraner> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:55.
<manjo> pgraner, thanks
<apw> pgraner, you sent me a link to the irc log for last weeks meeting where was that
<pgraner> apw: once sec
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-03-25
<Extend> there is no scheduled meeting in the EMEA wiki page and i want to apply ofr Ubuntu membership
<Eljugador> www.eljugador.net
<Eljugador> www.eljugador.net
<Eljugador> www.eljugador.net
<Eljugador> :o)
<apw> Extend, you are unlikley to find anyone here for that
<apw> did you add yourself to the Wiki page, people who are able to help are most likely subscribed to the wiki updates
<Extend> i already have a wiki , launchpad ..etc
<Extend> i even signed the code of conduct
<robbiew> hi all
<liw> hi
<mvo> hi
<Keybuk> hi
<TheMuso> Hi
<cjwatson> afternoon
<slangasek> morning
<evand> hi
<robbiew> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:03. The chair is robbiew.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<robbiew> With the Beta tomorrow...I guess I'd just like to open it up for any outstanding issues that people want to discuss
<cjwatson> release notes
<robbiew> perfect! as I had a question of where the draft is stored
<cjwatson> slangasek: are we collecting these on JauntyJackalope/TechnicalOverview?
<slangasek> yes
<robbiew> ah
<cjwatson> ok, the backlog of stuff to write up is on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-release-notes/+bugs
<slangasek> if you mean errata for the beta and feature highlights
<cjwatson> mostly thinking of errata, but yes
<slangasek> hmm
<slangasek> I'm not sure how much of what's on ubuntu-release-notes currently is applicable to jaunty, though; there've been a number of random task openings and I haven't been triaging
<cjwatson> right, didn't mean to say that everything there *definitely* needs a release note, but it probably all needs to be looked at
 * slangasek nods
<robbiew> james_w: welcome back!
<robbiew> :)
<james_w> thanks :-)
<cjwatson> I hear that the true source package branches in LP are nearly ready to go
<cjwatson> s/the //
<cjwatson> slangasek: any cause for belief that we might need a respin?
<cjwatson> test coverage is looking pretty good
<Extend> any news about firefox 3.1 ?
<slangasek> I haven't reviewed the tracker bugs from this morning; there's one additional failure on kubuntu that I haven't looked at, and mythbuntu might need some attention
<Keybuk> we missed out on a readahead update
<Keybuk> but that's not so important for a respin at this late stage
<cjwatson> Extend: we're in the middle of a meeting for a team that does not deal with firefox; this channel is not the best place to ask anyway
<cjwatson> Keybuk: did the notification called for in BetaProcess not happen?
<Extend> cjwatson, what is the topics ?
<cjwatson> Extend: foundations team weekly meeting
<Keybuk> cjwatson: the notification happened
<Keybuk> the rsync of the image is still only 99% complete
<cjwatson> ah, that's unfortunate
<Extend> cjwatson, i'm searching for my foundation team and waiting here
<Keybuk> feel free to tell BT they suck and that I should have faster DSL
 * mvo has a fix for fglrx->ati transition in bzr but its not on the CD
 * mvo will release note that too
<slangasek> Keybuk: ah, yuck
<cjwatson> Keybuk: do you want that task to be assigned to somebody who can more reliably get the image in future, or do you think you'll be OK with it for final
<cjwatson> ?
<Keybuk> I'm happy to do it if you guys don't respin cds every 20s :p
<robbiew> heh
<robbiew> slangasek: on an unrelated note, randa has not forgotten about the DebConf stuff...she's just waiting to hear back on it
<slangasek> heh, ok
<cjwatson> slangasek: which one's the additional Kubuntu failure you haven't looked at - bug 348393?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 348393 in debian-installer "[jaunty] Installing in a language other than English, will install English language packages" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/348393
<slangasek> Keybuk: not something we can promise, at all though
<slangasek> cjwatson: apparently a false alarm, http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/result/2467/52
<cjwatson> Keybuk: I think if you can let us know with a good margin if you feel you aren't going to be able to do it, then somebody else who already has the image could
<slangasek> which links to bug #348434
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 348434 in ubuntu "Kubuntu Jaunty live cd lacks/does not display plasma-widgets, screen turns black" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/348434
<Keybuk> cjwatson: anyone can do it, just boot the live cd in vmware, install it, reboot with "profile", copy the /etc/readahead/boot into the package's debian/boot.list and sed out anything kernel-specific
<cjwatson> slangasek: mm, that looks like a duff disk
<cjwatson> Keybuk: yeah, that matches the instructions on the wiki I think
<cjwatson> oh, except for "sed out anything kernel-specific"
<cjwatson> could you update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReadaheadListUpdate with details?
<cjwatson> maybe the readahead-list package should contain a script to ensure we do it consistently
<slangasek> cjwatson: it's under virtualbox, could just be a 3d virtualization issue?
<Keybuk> cjwatson: not sure how
<cjwatson> slangasek: suspicious comments about squashfs errors
<Keybuk> that script would be identical to sed -i '/$VER/d'
<cjwatson> Keybuk: ok, just note it on the wiki then?
<Keybuk> wiki updated
<cjwatson> ta
<cjwatson> robbiew: any bugs that mdz is paying attention to that we need to hit up? :)
<robbiew> heh
<robbiew>  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+source/linux/+bugs
<robbiew> all of these :P
<robbiew> but that's kernel
<cjwatson> hah
<robbiew> does anyone have bugs they want to raise?
<robbiew> things I should now about...in case asked
<slangasek> no, only bugs I want to smash
 * liw raises the bug that breaks his hardware just before every release
 * slangasek reassigns that bug to the 'fate' project
<Keybuk> cjwatson: you mean you don't look keep a very careful eye on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?orderby=-importance&field.subscriber=mdz
<Keybuk> I've had that bookmarked since I became a manager ;)
<evand> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/325973 is annoying me to no end
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 325973 in nautilus ""Starting File Manager" windows open uncontrollably" [Unknown,Fix released]
<robbiew> Keybuk: heh
<Keybuk> robbiew: I think I suggested that one to rick; it's good to know what bugs mdz is likely to ask you about at some point in the future :p
<robbiew> Keybuk: right, the problem is that you assume he subscribes to all bugs of "interest" ;)
<slangasek> hmm, I see the number of jaunty-targeted bugs has ballooned since yesterday
<slangasek> we were down to one page! <shakes fist>
<robbiew> ok, well I suppose we can cut this meeting short...since I know there's no shortage of things folks could be doing :)
<robbiew> any "Good News"?
<james_w> cjwatson was correct, "source package branches" are almost available on launchpad
<robbiew> woot!
<james_w> the facility, not the branches yet
<slangasek> "good news" - we're getting a bit more hotkey love in, making some backlight controls work for some sony laptops where it's never worked before
<cjwatson> james_w: will we be able to move ~ubuntu-core-dev/foo/ubuntu to the new location reasonably easily?
<james_w> yes
<robbiew> slangasek: speaking of hotkey love...can we make a special call for testing those in the Beta Announcement or Release Notes...which ever is more appropriate/
<robbiew> ?
<james_w> though before doing that I would like to be sure that they are consistent with the rest of the packages
<cjwatson> presumably the main problem is cases where it isn't a full-tree representation
<james_w> exactly
<slangasek> robbiew: yes, it's still on my todo list to write something up for the tech overview
<james_w> tags is a secondary problem, but that I can fix up easily enough
<robbiew> slangasek: cool, thnx
<cjwatson> james_w: anyone using debcommit -r should be fine, at least
<james_w> yes
<robbiew> anything else?
<robbiew> going once....
<robbiew> twice....
<robbiew> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:35.
<robbiew> thanks all :)
<liw> thanks
<evand> thanks!
<TheMuso> thanks
<slangasek> thanks :)
<mvo> thanks
<james_w> thanks
<davmor2> Hello Everybody
 * ogasawara waves
<pedro_> hello everybody
<heno> hey all
<ara> moshi moshi
<fader> Howdy
<bdmurray> hi
<ogasawara> ara: heh :)
<fader> Incidentally, schwuk sends his regrets, but his house has lost power and he won't make it unless the power is restored
<heno> let's start
<heno> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:02. The chair is heno.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<heno> It's beta week!
<pedro_> _o/
<eeejay> hey hey
<heno> testing is going well :)
<davmor2> yeap
<heno> a few cases are lagging as usual
<heno> fader can you get to some ESX testing today?
<fader> heno: we're getting ESX testing daily in the certification environment
<heno> Does anyone have a setup for the Raid test?
<fader> I can add in some ad-hoc ISO testing if that's what you're looking for
<heno> fader: is that installing automatically now?
<fader> heno: yep :)
<davmor2> heno: no single drives throughout I'm afraid
<heno> fader: great, just tick them as done on the tracker then
<fader> heno: Will do.
<heno> fader: do we have a suitable setup for Raid?
<fader> We've got at least one server with RAID hardware but I believe it has only one drive
<charlie-tca> heno: I can run RAID on 386
<fader> If that qualifies we can use it
<charlie-tca> I have 3 drives installed
<fader> charlie-tca's setup sounds more suitable :)
<heno> charlie-tca: great, can you try http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Install/ServerRAID1 ?
 * davmor2 makes a note to get some more drives
<charlie-tca> Sure. I'm running an OEM test now, then I will do it.
<cr3> by the way, we've had esx testing on a daily basis since march 6th, it's really awesome!
<heno> so we're in good shape. Help closing out the cases on http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/all/all is appreciated though!
<heno> on with our regular agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
<heno> [TOPIC] UbuntuBugDay highlights -- pedro
<MootBot> New Topic:  UbuntuBugDay highlights -- pedro
<pedro_> We celebrated the cups hug day last Thursday it was pretty good as you can see per https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20090319
<pedro_> Till Kamppeter and Martin Pitt helped us during the event answering questions regarding the reports, thanks a lot guys!
<pedro_> from the Bugsquad side paulduf, jgoguen, bigal50, sectech and thekorn made a great work squashing those bugs
<heno> cool!
<heno> thanks, pedro_
<heno> New bug control members! -- bdmurray
<stgraber> heya
<pedro_> np :-)
<heno> bdmurray: I know you've been away - do you have anything on this topic today?
<bdmurray> This week Joel Goguen was approved as a Bug Control member!  He is interested in desktop applications like Thunderbird, OpenOffice, and Pidgin.
<bdmurray> There are no other applications pending at the moment.
<heno> pedro_: can you put him in touch with members of the desktop team?
<heno> asac, calc and seb I guess
<pedro_> heno: yes! I'll put him in contact with them :-)
<asac>  \o/
<heno> heh
<heno> Next Testing day topic & highlights from last UTD -- ara
<ara> davmor2: ^
<ara> davmor2 was organizing the latest testing day
<davmor2> heno: it went all a bit pear shape because beta iso became available :)
<heno> indeed, I should have updated the agenda
<davmor2> so most of the result actual went there instead of the wiki
<heno> yes this release has been a bit too smooth ... It's worrying ...
<ara> heno:  :)
<davmor2> heno: Shhhh you'll jinx it
<heno> there is still RC and Final
<heno> [TOPIC] Private crash report triage -- sbeattie
<MootBot> New Topic:  Private crash report triage -- sbeattie
<sbeattie> While doing regression triage, I ended up looking at system-config-printer and network-manager's buglists, and found 30-40 private apport bugs for each package.
<sbeattie> some reasonably old.
<sbeattie> Was wondering if anyone is actively focusing on these and making sure they get opened up.
<bdmurray> Perhaps we should get a section added for Hug Days?
<sbeattie> that would probably be a good idea.
<heno> It's currently the responsibility of everyone (and thus no one) on bug-control
<bdmurray> sbeattie: system-config-printer is python right?
<sbeattie> yeah
<bdmurray> Those are a lot easier to review than core dumps
<heno> This would be a great topic for someone on bug-control to take on and drive
<sbeattie> bdmurray: the apport-retracer is now deleting core-dumps automatically (in some cases?), so newer aborts are fairly easy to review as well.
<bdmurray> sbeattie: that's good
<bdmurray> I think the priority should be to review the most recent ones and the ones with good retraces
<heno> agreed
<heno> so, we'll make it a bug day theme; pedro can you incorporate that? I'll email the bugsquad list asking for interested volunteers as well
<bdmurray> heno: bug control you mean
<bdmurray> It might neat if we could generate an rss feed of these reports since Launchpad can't.
<pedro_> heno: sure, I'll add it to the template for future hug days
<heno> bdmurray: I though I would use the bugsquad list but address it mainly to bug control
<bdmurray> Ah, that make sense then. ;-)
<heno> which brings me to:
<heno> [TOPIC] Plans for triaging the Beta bugs next week -- heno
<MootBot> New Topic:  Plans for triaging the Beta bugs next week -- heno
<heno> We usually get a good flow of bugs just after Beta
<heno> should me make some specific plans for triaging those?
<heno> pedro suggested an extra bug day on Tuesday
<stgraber> is there an easy way to find them ? (tags or similar) ?
<stgraber> or just get everything new over the last week or so
<heno> bdmurray made a 'yesterday' list once
<heno> could we adapt that?
<bdmurray> I could probably whip something up like that
<heno> rock!
<ara> bdmurray: could you please do a couple of them? ...
<heno> I can appeal to the de community to dedicate some time to it also
<bdmurray> ara: What else did you have in mind?
<ara> bdmurray: one for everything filed "yesterday" and one for everything filed "yesterday" in jaunty beta (through apport, knowing exactly it was in jaunty)
<bdmurray> ara: okay, got it
<ara> in beta time, when there is not much time left to fix bugs, I think it is more important to focus on well written bugs
<bdmurray> right, maybe add in the gravity column too
<stgraber> ara: so basically focusing only on triaged bugs ?
<stgraber> (still need someone to filter them first though)
<heno> it would be great if running apport-collect would promote it from the B-list to the A-list :)
<ara> stgraber: no, no. if you file a bug through ubuntu-bug or "Report a problem", you have minimum information to start triaging
<bdmurray> Yes, I thought having apport-collect tag the bug would be useful too.
<ara> stgraber: it will be still "New" but you can skip traiging questions like "which version of ubuntu are you running?"
<heno> right, so it's currently non-trivial to pick out bugs treated with apport-collect?
<bdmurray> heno: that's correct
<stgraber> ara: right, so just using apport's tags, showing only these who've been retraced (or at least were filed with apport)
<heno> bdmurray: should we have a blurb about the value of running a-c is the gm stock text fragments?
<stgraber> do we have an easy way to look for the release in apport's output (as in filter a bug list based on it) other than going through one by one (manually or using a script) ?
<bdmurray> heno: I think that would make more sense after Jaunty releases since apport-collect is not available on Intrepid.
<heno> bdmurray: good point
<heno> did we agree to run a Beta bug day?
<heno> hm, no great demand for that :)
<heno> so, for beta bdmurray will prepare a target list and I'll address the dev community
<heno> we can encourage people to join #ubuntu-bugs all week of course
<heno> Beta Bug Week
<heno> Any other topics?
<heno> schwuk is working on a new QA landing page and will post to the list
<davmor2> whats on the agenda for the next testing day?
<sbeattie> QA landing page> yay!
<sbeattie> just a reminder to tag jaunty bugs that are regressions with regression-potential so they get on both my and the release team's radar.
<heno> davmor2: looks like there is no decision https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/UbuntuTestingDay/Calendar
<heno> ara: a server day?
<ara> heno: I was talking with mathiaz
<ara> and he told me that for server there's too much work to do with documentation first
<mgunes> Hi all; somewhat late but I'm in..
<ara> he proposed to review the server documentation as a testing day
<ara> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JauntyServerGuide
<ara> "<mathiaz> the goal of the testing day would be to go through these sections and make sure that the outlined intructions are working correclty.
<ara>  on jaunty."
<ara> what do you think?
<sbeattie> mgunes: hey!
<heno> welcome back mgunes :)
<heno> ara: I'd rather get some real testing in this lose to final
<ara> yes, that's what I thought
<heno> We also talked about checkbox
<heno> How about a day looking for installer corner cases?
<mgunes> sbeattie, heno, thanks!
<ara> heno: example?
<heno> not blitzing through lots of installs but doing odd-ball multiple partition stuff
<heno> start an install and pull the power chord, that sort of thing :)
<heno> I feel we are being a bit shallow with the ISO install testing
<heno> going back and forth in ubiquity and d-i, trying to make it crash
<heno> perhaps look at old bugs and try to reproduce those
<ara> ok, we could do that :-) cjwatson will be pleased ;-)
<heno> set your display to 800x600 and run in OEM, mode, etc.
<davmor2> ara: yes I'm sure those are the exact words he'll use :)
<cr3> do you mean testing those installer corner cases with checkbox?
<ara> cr3: no, it was two different things if I understood correctly
<heno> cr3: no, I changed topic suddenly :)
<cr3> heno: was that checkbox relating to mathiaz's comment then?
<heno> though we should make 'run checkbox' part of one of the install cases
<heno> fader: you're on that, right?
<fader> heno: It's on my list to get into the test cases yes
<heno> cool
<heno> ok, that's settled, let's wrap up!
<heno> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:58.
<davmor2> thanks
<sbeattie> woo, thanks.
<ara> thanks :)
<ara> cheerio!
<mgunes> thanks, see you all next time :)
<jcastro> mgunes: good to see you around again!
<mgunes> jcastro, you too!
<cjwatson> heno: I think I'd prefer *not* to have an attempt to reproduce old bugs
<cjwatson> heno: the problem is that a lot of installer bugs are very specific to certain situations and it's all too easy to assume that things are fixed if you don't quite understand what caused them in the first place
<heno> cjwatson: heh, ok :) But finding new ones is fine?
<cjwatson> heno: absolutely
<cjwatson> I'd welcome that
<heno> cool
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-03-26
 * persia peers about
<davidm> G'day
 * ogra coughs and will try to follow in his sick head
 * lool waves
 * lool shivers and sneezes
<ogra> go away! you infected me ...
<dholbach> come on, we can't send the whole mobile team to hospital!
<persia> OK.  Enough preamble, let's get started.
<persia> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 07:01. The chair is persia.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * davmor2 runs clamtk to kill the virus
<persia> Agenda is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090326
<persia> First up, action item revew
<persia> [topic] persia to investigate 338148 (co)
<MootBot> New Topic:  persia to investigate 338148 (co)
<persia> So, I've looked a bit more, and I now understand the reason it doesn't work, but I've been distracted by installer issues, and haven't tracked down a fix yet.
<lool> No NCommander?
<persia> [topic] persia & NCommander to review workflow for testing alternate images.
<MootBot> New Topic:  persia & NCommander to review workflow for testing alternate images.
<lool> GrueMaster, plars: Around?  :-)
<plars> lool: yup
<persia> So,we went through it, and did a lot of testing, and found some fixes that ended up as bug #345534
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 345534 in flash-kernel "Please add support for the imx51 ARM subarchitecture." [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/345534
<persia> Most of those were just merged with trunk, and testing should be available post-beta.
<ogra> i think lool has patches for that one
<persia> For the flash-kernel bit?
<ogra> yes
<ogra> it was waiting on redboot-tools
<persia> Cool!
<lool> I have a partial patch
<lool> It misses the udeb parts and the fconfig part
<ogra> fconfig is a two liner if we work with the bin
<persia> lool, Is it somewhere viewable?  I'm happy to help track down the udeb part.
<lool> persia: Will attach it
<persia> Great.
<persia> Moving on...
<ogra> if we dont, fconfig needs to grow an init function
<persia> [topic] NCommander to post dmesg for jax10 to 280669 (co)
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to post dmesg for jax10 to 280669 (co)
<persia> NCommander appears to be absent.
<persia> The dmesg appears to have been attached according to the bug log: I'll mark the action as done.
<persia> [topic] lool to spec ec2-package-builder for jaunty+1 (co)
<MootBot> New Topic:  lool to spec ec2-package-builder for jaunty+1 (co)
<lool> no progress due to beta and I don't expect progress next week, but I keep it in my TODO
<persia> OK.  I'll keep carrying it over then :)
<persia> [topic] ogra to trim selection-of-arm-images to a smaller scope (co)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ogra to trim selection-of-arm-images to a smaller scope (co)
<ogra> the build-babbage-image.sh script on http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/custom/20090326-armel+imx51/ will serve as a base for the tool here
<ogra> i didnt update the spec though
<ogra> so co
<persia> OK.
<ogra> same goes for the next two points
<persia> Right.
<persia> OK.  That completes action items.
<persia> Let's move on to Roadmap
<persia> [topic] offline-installer
<MootBot> New Topic:  offline-installer
 * ogra only has to say something to one point there ... (babbage status)
<persia> [topic] mobile-setup-wizard
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-setup-wizard
<ogra> all other items are as they were
<persia> No change since last week.
<persia> [topic] arm-library-optimisation
<MootBot> New Topic:  arm-library-optimisation
<lool> Ready to be pushed now that glibc is in
<persia> Excellent!
 * NCommander coughs
<lool> pango changes ready to be pushed; persia on the other changes
<lool> persia: Feel free to revisit the other topics involving Michael
<persia> [ACTION] persia to chase VFP for cairo, ffmpeg, gtk+2.0
<MootBot> ACTION received:  persia to chase VFP for cairo, ffmpeg, gtk+2.0
<persia> lool, No need: both action items were completed from other evidence.
<persia> [topic] poulsbo-packaging
<MootBot> New Topic:  poulsbo-packaging
<persia> I didn't look at this at all this week.
 * persia skips general-resolution-for-touchscreen-handling
<lool> You were to look into poulsbo-packaging?
<persia> [topic] arm-softboot-loader
<MootBot> New Topic:  arm-softboot-loader
<NCommander> No progress, carryover.
 * persia skips selection-of-arm-images
<persia> [topic] lpia-versus-i386
<MootBot> New Topic:  lpia-versus-i386
<lool> Nothing new to report
<persia> [topic] mobile-spec-cleanup
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-spec-cleanup
<persia> Still being ignored.
<persia> [topic] bug #299847
<MootBot> New Topic:  bug #299847
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 299847 in linux "Shared memory operations on very fast ARM hardware suffer from non-atomic operations and race conditions." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/299847
 * ogra added two new bugs to roadmap, please reload
<NCommander> No progress
 * persia plays browser caching games
<persia> [topic] bug #328167
<MootBot> New Topic:  bug #328167
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 328167 in gnome-keyring "[arm] gnome-keyring-daemon eating 100% CPU at login in Jaunty" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/328167
<ogra> post beta
<persia> [topic] bug #280699
<MootBot> New Topic:  bug #280699
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 280699 in libcanberra "canberra-gtk-play crashed with SIGSEGV in malloc()" [Medium,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/280699
<persia> Grr....  Not again!
<persia> [topic] bug #280669
<MootBot> New Topic:  bug #280669
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 280669 in linux "DMA mode and driver jax10" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/280669
<NCommander> carry over please.
<davidm> I added a bug also just now
<persia> [topic] bug #338148
<MootBot> New Topic:  bug #338148
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 338148 in vnc4 "Needs new version from Debian: fails to build with removal of mesa-swx11-source" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/338148
<persia> See progress in my action item
<persia> [topic] bug #348411
<MootBot> New Topic:  bug #348411
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 348411 in partman-base "offers to install to source media in ubiquity if source media is SD (/dev/mmcblk0) card" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/348411
<lool> fix committed?
<lool> nothing to discuss then?
<persia> Apparently.
<ogra> there is one other bug with configuring apt persia and i both saw but neither of us reported or investigated yet
<persia> [topic] bug #348411
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 348411 in partman-base "offers to install to source media in ubiquity if source media is SD (/dev/mmcblk0) card" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/348411
<MootBot> New Topic:  bug #348411
<lool> We just had that one
 * persia is confused.
<ogra> yeah
<lool> Also the bug title doesn't match the bug number on the wiki page
<persia> Right.  I found it, and will fix the Roadmap.
<ogra> hmm, right, my fault
<lool> ogra: Fix the bug numbers or titles?
<persia> [topic] bug #348504
<MootBot> New Topic:  bug #348504
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 348504 in linux "USB issues with linux-image-2.6.28-11-imx51 fill /var/log" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/348504
<ogra> yeah, thts the one
<lool> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/348504
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 348504 in linux "USB issues with linux-image-2.6.28-11-imx51 fill /var/log" [Undecided,New]
<lool> Right
<lool> ogra: I am not sure why we need to track it in our meetings?
<lool> Kernel team said they didn't want to milestone this as it was dependent on a patch from FSL and they wouldn't fix it themselves
<ogra> its a releasse blocker ?
<lool> And mobile is not going to fix the bug
<persia> It's a release blocker.
<lool> You can install to SD or to SATA and we can't do anything about it
<ogra> SATA is USB
<lool> So documenting the workaround in release notes is the only thing to do I'm afraid
<ogra> all target media is usb
<davidm> I agree
<lool> ogra: Uh?
 * NCommander didn't have this issue with the raw FSL 2.6.28 kernel ...
<ogra> lool, the SATA is juts a usb bridge
<lool> I thought this SoC was special in that it was *not* using USB for SATA/PATA
<ogra> lool, the bug makes the image hardlock after some minutes
<lool> ogra: So how do we fix it?
<ogra> stopping syslog is the only way atm
<ogra> acording to persia cooloney had a fix
<davidm> lool, pata is not USB sata is
<persia> Or editing syslog.conf to drop all kernel messages.
<lool> davidm: hmm ok
<persia> ogra, No, not a fix.  Was aware of the issue.
<ogra> oh
<ogra> then i misunderstood you
<lool> ogra: My understanding was that kernel team would either merge fixes for final or as a SRU
<ogra> we cant release witjh it though
<lool> In all cases the mobile team can only document the workaround and that's done already
<lool> ogra: It's on the kernel team's plate to review potential fixes to it and they requested not to milestone it
<ogra> well, we wont get any installer debugging without syslog
<lool> You want to discuss improvements to the workaround?
<ogra> i dont see improvements
<persia> Let's set this aside.  This doesn't seem like productive discussion.  The bug isn't blocking me reviewing install issues.
<persia> Moving on.
<lool> Well I'd like to decide whether we're reviewing it
<ogra> syslog, debug log and kern log get filled with 100s of MB
<lool> I don't see the point in having this bug every week
<ogra> that makes oom kick in
<persia> lool, fair point.
<lool> So let's document how to setup syslog properly
<lool> Instead of just commenting out kern, you could drop kern.debug to /dev/null or something like that
<ogra> and syslog ?
<lool> Add a kern.none?
<ogra> hrm
<persia> So, who's going to document the improved workaround?
<lool> I'm not using USB for my installs happy to leave it to one of you
<persia> Let's keep this bug on our list, until we have a workaround that means it's only a kernel issue.
<ogra> lool, huh ? what are you using ?
<lool> SD
<ogra> how do you do that when testing the live image ?
<lool> I don't use the live image yet; I intend to add a partition after the live image for install
<ogra> ah
<ogra> makes sense ... but you will still get the errors as long as usb is active
<ogra> lool, btw, as soon as bug 348411 is fixed your way wont work
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 348411 in partman-base "offers to install to source media in ubiquity if source media is SD (/dev/mmcblk0) card" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/348411
<davidm> persia, please reload I added more bugs
<persia> ogra, Are you up for documenting how to configure syslog to be quiet?
<ogra> sigh
<ogra> seems i have to
<ogra> i have to redo the builder script as well for the ubiquity bug
<ogra> before beta gets out
<persia> [action] ogra to document workaround for 348504
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra to document workaround for 348504
<ogra> and i'm massively sick
<ogra> and have to test nslu2 which nobody else can apparently
<davidm> lool, did you go visist ogra this week? ;-P
<persia> [topic] bug #348660
<MootBot> New Topic:  bug #348660
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 348660 in ubiquity "ubiquity unsets ubiquity/install_bootloader=false at some point during installation" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/348660
<lool> We had a phone call, that must be it
<ogra> davidm, we're working together day and night since 10 days without break ...
<persia> So I put together a quick hack that hides this issue.
<ogra> i guess the intense closeness is the cause :)
<davidm> ogra, I know, just bad joke about physical visit
<lool> ogra: Give me more blanket
<persia> I've a roadmap to actually fix it.
<ogra> lool, heh
<davidm> an electronic human bug, who would have thunk ;-P
 * persia bangs the gavel
<lool> persia: As long as u-i folks are happy with it, let's use it
<persia> lool, use which?
<lool> persia: I guess it shows we need flash-kernel ubiquity integration pretty quick afterwards though
<NCommander> We do need to fix this bug in the installed system
<lool> persia: Your quick hack
<NCommander> Or else it will continue to fill up the syslogs.
<persia> lool, The quick hack is already committed to ubiquity.  The real fix is needed also.
<lool> NCommander: syslog.conf gets copied over
<persia> Moving on.
<NCommander> Ew
<persia> [topic] bug #347350
<MootBot> New Topic:  bug #347350
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 347350 in oem-config "oem-config-firstboot does not fit in 1024x600" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/347350
<lool> This issue is long standing and known since before UDS and was discussed there: not sure what we can do now
<davidm> This is one for StevenK to track and perhaps fix if possible it's quite nasty
<persia> Well, there's been massive improvements to ubiquity UI during the jaunty cycle.  For some other installation cases, the ubiquity UI was moved to oem-setup, addressing the issue.
<davidm> We picked up a slew of bugs in yesterdays testing round on the UNR
<persia> Except in cases where ubiquity doesn't fit, I suspect this ought be fairly straightforward.
<plars> yeah, with some of these resolution bugs you can workaround by alt-clicking and moving the window about, but not with this one
<lool> I'm personally pressing enter  :-)
<ogra> not in oem-config i think
<ogra> since it runs fullsceen
<plars> lool: which works, so long as you don't want to change anything
<davidm> I pressed enter all the way through OEM confg and made it to complete install
<davidm> I was able to set timezone, enter my name password etc. just had to hit enter for each screen to go forward
<persia> davidm, That's for UNR, I presume?
<davidm> Yes
<lool> davidm: You did?  I can't press enter on the import from other OS screen, which I reported
<davidm> All the last bugs I added are UNR
<lool> perhaps that was fixed in the mean time hmm
<persia> Right.  MID still has an issue that it can't complete oem-install interactively because of kourou.
<StevenK> The problem is we are past UI freeze ...
<lool> StevenK: exactly
<lool> StevenK: That's why I fear we can't do much at this point
<lool> Not only is it risky to change the UI of all people installing ubuntu, but it breaks doc & screenshots   :-/
<lool> (and the fixes aren't trivial in my eyes either)
<persia> OK.  We seem stalled.
<lool> davidm: So how important is it when compared to other issues?
<persia> So, Do we want to pursue the oem-config UI alignment with ubiquity at this point?
<davidm> We need to release note it I think
<lool> this class of issues is only worth fixing if we fix all screens, the changes don't seem trivial and will require a lot of our cycles and a horde of exceptions
<davidm> You can install it, the OEM team will have to fix this for sure for their builds, so we will have to get a fix in a some point.
<lool> persia: I saw the problem in ubiquity, I don't think oem versus ubiquity is the problem
<davidm> We are now responsible for UNR fitting on screens or getting someone to fix them
<davidm> It's our headach
<lool> Hmm theres' something which we could do for timezone which wouldn't be too insane: don't show the map widget when it doesn't fit
<persia> lool, "The same problem"?  I've been running ubiquity installs at 800x600, and can see the buttons.  This sounds like something more severe.
<davidm> persia, skip Bug 346589  I just saw a post from cjwatson about it,
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 346589 in ubiquity "[Jaunty] Misleading information when installing with mounted partitions" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/346589
<lool> persia: I ran it on my EeePC 701SD in UNR and saw this issue
<davidm> it's in hand
<davidm> The netbooks have smaller vertical res that removes the buttons from the screen completely
<davidm> 576 I think
<ogra> 600 - twp panels (= 48px)
<ogra> *two
<davidm> just enough to remove the buttons from the screen
<persia> Oh, Yeah.  There's little enough space at 600 that I can imagine 576 just doesn't fit at all.
<ogra> or is that the new glass ?
<davidm> That is the new glass size
<ogra> ah
<davidm> VERY popular
<ogra> but only one panel in UNR
<lool> persia: eeepc is 800Ã480
<ogra> so 576-24
<davidm> Yea
<davidm> So 701 is even smaller
<lool> So it's 480 minus one panel on UNR
<persia> lool, Ah.  Yeah, nothing we have fits in 480.
<davidm> Anyway, it needs to be tracked and fixed at some point
<davidm> UNR works well on the thing however
<lool> We don't have a hard goal at the moment, do we?
<persia> We asked for that at UDS, and got a *lot* of improvements, but it's not enough for 480.
<ogra> definately not
<persia> I thought the hard goal was currently at 600 vertical pixels.
<davidm> lool, we own the UNR now and the issues around it.
 * ogra thought 576-panel
<persia> We could move it to 576, but that's less.  480 sounds too low.
<davidm> We have have to at least deal with 576 panels
<lool> davidm: Let me more explicit: I have a 100x100 device, will UNR work on it?
<ogra> heh
<davidm> lool, no
<lool> davidm: What's the limit?
<davidm> eee PC 701
 * persia notes there are only 7 minutes left, and lots to cover.
<davidm> Lets move on for now
<persia> [topic] bug #344449
<MootBot> New Topic:  bug #344449
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 344449 in netbook-remix "Installer puts up confusing message about partitions in use (dup-of: 346589)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/344449
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 346589 in ubiquity "[Jaunty] Misleading information when installing with mounted partitions" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/346589
<persia> So, the fix to make the message less confusing has been committed.
<davidm> Yes just happened :-)
<persia> The underlying issue that one may or may not want to install on the install media is a bit murky.
<cjwatson> there's still the fact that it appears at all, but I posted an extensive proposal to one of Matt's bugs
<cjwatson> I think it will be tractable for final
<davidm> cjwatson, thanks
<cjwatson> you can't actually install on the installation medium; that won't be fixable
<cjwatson> well, ish
<cjwatson> if the installation medium has other partitions already set up then you can install on those as long as you don't change the partition table
<lool> cjwatson: Is it ok to install on a partition of that medium which isn't used by the installer?
<cjwatson> ^-
<lool> Ok; thanks
<lool> That's actually what I want to do
<cjwatson> bear in mind that's a historically awkward case
<lool> But others are installing on another medium
<lool> cjwatson: I was just curious and like that setup; but it's personal
<cjwatson> because the partition table is locked, the kernel will refuse to reread it if you change any partitions at all in non-trivial ways
<lool> persia: Next bug?
<persia> [topic] bug #319825
<MootBot> New Topic:  bug #319825
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 319825 in linux "acer_wmi in Jaunty on Aspire One exposes non-functional (always disabled) rfkill device" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/319825
<persia> This looks like a kernel bug to me.
<lool> (cjwatson: Happy to read whether you think it's possible to fit ubiquity and oem-setup in 480 screens)
<davidm> Again we need to track this
<persia> Do we need to discuss it each week?
<davidm> make sure it's resolved
<cjwatson> lool: 600 yes, 480 ambitious
<lool> davidm: ^
<cjwatson> although 600 still probably not trivial
<davidm> cjwatson, is 576 within your opinion of 600?
<ogra> 576
<lool> davidm: I don't think it's worthwhile to track it in the mobile meetings; we could poke the kernel team weekly about it via email or in their meeting perhaps?
<cjwatson> davidm: not sure
<persia> cjwatson, 600 works in ubiquity today, with the latest UI changes.
<davidm> lool, OK on 319825
<lool> davidm: There are already kernel bugs hotlists; I think that would be my preferred way
<davidm> lool, OK by me
<cjwatson> persia: oh good. oem-config is still awkward due to the annoying language screen
<persia> cjwatson, Right.
<cjwatson> might be possible to make better use of horizontal space there though
<ogra> doent work on 600 for me on the babbage without moving the window
<ogra> *doesnt
<persia> ogra, Hrm.  Dunno why you and I see different results.  Let's compare after the meeting.
<ogra> the buttons are hidden behind the bottom panel
<davidm> persia, head for last bug please
<ogra> i have a 1px line for each of them i can click on
<persia> [topic] bug #346078
<MootBot> New Topic:  bug #346078
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 346078 in jockey "do not announce ath_pci on systems where ath5k is running" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/346078
<davidm> I had that happen to me, we need to track again unless someone has better idea
<persia> So, pitti seems to have this on-track.  Shall we just coordinate with him, as with the kernel bug above?
<davidm> Yes
<lool> That's on pitti's radar already
<lool> Right
<persia> RIght.  Let's try to drop them from the roadmap for next week.
<persia> Personally, I think things like this are better added as discussion items for the meeting than roadmap items.
<persia> Anyway.
<persia> [topic] NSLU2 enablement
<MootBot> New Topic:  NSLU2 enablement
<lool> let's skip that: image killed for beta
<ogra> finishing the beta install here
<lool> Oh no sorry, I'm confused
<persia> OK.
<lool> I mixed it up with versatile
<ogra> i'm at 97%
<persia> ogra, Nothing new to report?
<ogra> persia, seems to have run fine up to here
<persia> [topic] Babbage enablement
<MootBot> New Topic:  Babbage enablement
<lool> persia: Don't think we need to visit it every week anymore; ogra is doing beta testing using the already done enablement
<ogra> and i dont plan to touch it agaiun if nobody reports breakage
<lool> persia: (I mean on NSLU2)
<persia> ogra, IF it's done, remove it from the roadmap :p
<ogra> feel free
<lool> Babbage is a good topic though: NCommander what needs to be done for d-i support after beta still?
<lool> On ubiquity, we need a flash-kernel frontend IIUC what persia explained me
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/custom/20090326-armel+imx51/ is there, i will add the fixes fdor syslog and ubiquity today
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/custom/20090326-armel+imx51/ is there, i will add the fixes fdor syslog and ubiquity today
<NCommander> lool, its pending cjwatson's merge
<lool> NCommander: It's done i think
<persia> NCommander, That's done.
<cjwatson> which is committed
<ogra> the dl page points to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BabbageJauntyBetaInstall
<lool> NCommander: But what needs to be done from our side still?
<cjwatson> I'll upload right after beta
<persia> There's also an outstanding choose-mirror branch to make armel use ports.
<cjwatson> lool: there's still a flash-kernel task on that bug
<cjwatson> persia: oh, there is? I'll hunt that down
<ogra> which should get you going with a working install after i changed the two issues
<lool> cjwatson: Yeah, I have a flash-kernel update for the regular updates
<lool> But not for the udeb part
<NCommander> lool, then we need to hook up the cdimage code to spit out an image. The only thing that doesn't work is kernel installation due to the post-install on the kernel not doing anything AFAIK
<lool> And it doesn't fix the bug with initramfs size
<persia> cjwatson, I'll pass you the URL
<ogra> and not for fconfig yet
<NCommander> (I assigned that task on the bug to you lool)
<cjwatson> persia: it's ok, if it's on LP I'll find it easily
<lool> cjwatson: I'd like to ask you for help on the issue with flash-kernel and fconfig and bootscript with initramfs size after the meeting
<lool> NCommander: Oh ok
<cjwatson> lool: ok
<ogra> all in all i think we got a lot futher with babbage than lool and i belived last week ...
<lool> persia: Perhaps we can also discuss the -installer bit moving to a separate script
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> redboot-install or something
<NCommander> ogra, well, we have live images now, and alternate ones will be here soon AFAIK
<persia> lool, Doesn't need to happen.  There's another way it can be done, which makes it easier.
<lool> persia: Hmm ok
<persia> See the #ubuntu-devel backscroll from about 75 minutes ago.
<lool> ok
<lool> Anything else on babbage enablement?
<ogra> nope
<lool> There are some hardware and kernel issues, but not on our plate
<persia> Alright then.
<persia> [topic] ARM Benchmarking
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Benchmarking
<ogra> and we're late all over but we all know that
<lool> Yeah
<ogra> and its not our fault, i think we did what we could do
<lool> NCommander actually benchmarked doko's libgcc-vfp
<NCommander> I benchmarked libgcc_s via hwcaps.
<NCommander> lol
<lool> But results where not impressive, either unconclusive or no progress at all
<NCommander> There was a slight increase in performance, but nothing to really write home about.
<lool> NCommander: Could you tell doko about your results?
<NCommander> sure.
<lool> Perhaps he will decide to drop the changes, or  suggest alternate benchmarking?
<lool> [action] foobar blahablhablah
<NCommander> o_O;
 * lool invokes persia 
<persia> [action] NCommander to report on libgcc-vfp benchmark results to doko
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to report on libgcc-vfp benchmark results to doko
<persia> And that takes us to the last item of the day:
<persia> [topic] Discuss moving meeting time to be more convenient for those in UTC-5 through UTC-8
<MootBot> New Topic:  Discuss moving meeting time to be more convenient for those in UTC-5 through UTC-8
<lool> Ah sorry, no time left to discuss that   :-P
<ogra> we're over time actually
<ogra> long ago that we managed *that*
<persia> I know.  But since I chair the next meeting, I don't care :p
<lool> Yeah, that was the joke, but they are asleep, poor fellows  :-/
<lool> So, what time?
<persia> No they aren't.  I've seen comments from several in those timezones that got up far too early today.
<lool> GrueMaster: You had a proposal
<persia> I still think 21:00 UTC is best.
<davidm> I'm OK with 21:00 UTC
<lool> So I'm moving to UTC+2 next week
<davidm> I think that fell in line with what GrueMaster put forward
<lool> along with ogra
<ogra> yeah
<davidm> what time does that make it for you 23:00?
<lool> It's not as awful as 6am though
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> (to both statements)
<lool> davidm: what's that website again?
<persia> 21:00 UTC is 06:00 JST.
<lool> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/advmeeting.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/advmeeting.html
<lool> persia: Ah so it's already awful, well then it's done
<persia> OK.  Any objections to 21:00 UTC?
<StevenK> Ew, 8am
<davidm> Not from me
<plars> no objection here :)
<ogra> no objections
<NCommander> What time is that eastern?
<persia> [agreed] Mobile Team Meeting times will change to 21:00 UTC henceforth.
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Mobile Team Meeting times will change to 21:00 UTC henceforth.
<ian_brasil> post this to the mailing list?
<persia> ian_brasil, Certainly.  This is more convenient for you as well, right?
<lool> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?month=3&day=31&year=2009&p1=195&p2=248&p3=240&p4=224
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?month=3&day=31&year=2009&p1=195&p2=248&p3=240&p4=224
<StevenK> Just as long as we aren't having the meeting in just under 8 hours.
<ian_brasil> yes
<davidm> NCommander, about 5PM your local time
<persia> StevenK, No, we're not having *another* meeting today
<NCommander> YES!!!!!
<ogra> StevenK, depends how long this one will still run :P
<persia> Now that's resolve.
<StevenK> Heh
<persia> Anyone have any other items to raise?
<NCommander> What about the phone call?
<lool> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?month=3&day=31&year=2009&p1=195&p2=248&p3=240&p4=24&p5=224
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?month=3&day=31&year=2009&p1=195&p2=248&p3=240&p4=24&p5=224
 * ogra would like to raise that lool ROCKS ... thanks a lot for the help since last wed. on the babbage :)
 * lool feels better with ogra's support; I was feeling bad not making progress on my own tasks
<lool> ogra: Let's reach for the sky!
<ogra> YEAH !
<persia> That's it then.
<persia> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 08:17.
<lool> persia: Thanks for chairing
<ogra> thanks
 * persia peers about
<ttx> persia: o/
<persia> OK.
<persia> Who's here for the Java Meeting?
<ttx> \o
<persia> Raising the other hand doesn't fool me.  I count by nicks :)
 * dantalizing is listening in
<ttx> bah
<persia> OK.  As usual, nobody added anything to the agenda for this week.
<persia> robilad and slytherin aren't here.
<persia> I'm going to drop those items from the roadmap.
<persia> WIthout direction, I'm not sure we're getting anywhere on the first (as there's no spec or anything for anyone else to take over).
<persia> And I think we've made *so much* progress on the second that we're probably almost ahead of Debian.
<ttx> almost. They moved quite a bunch to main as well :)
<persia> You've convinced me.  We'll drop the first, but not the second.
<persia> I didn't get anywhere with my cunning plan to drop Java 5.
<ttx> bummer :)
<persia> ttx, How's JavaContents coming along?
<ttx> not much done since last week. i'll generate a javaContents for jaunty beta
<ttx> (because I need it for myself, quite selfishly)
<ttx> no feedback
<persia> heh.
<persia> And for attracting new Java packagers?
<ttx> I might blog about it but it's only interesting to java packagers
<ttx> ... and this is a rare species
<persia> Yes, but blogging about it might get more of them to raise their hands :)
<ttx> will do.
<persia> OK.  Anything else?
<ttx> no.
<persia> Alright then.  Meeting adjourned.
<sbc> MTecknology: Thanks for the LinkedIN group invite.
<dholbach> bdmurray, statik: hello - are you guys around?
<statik> hey there dholbach
<bdmurray> I'm here
<dholbach> bdmurray, statik: I think we have some scheduling problems over here plus soren's daugher is ill, so he won't make it - I'm really really sorry about this
<statik> hey, life happens, it's ok
<statik> dholbach: so is the meeting for today cancelled?
<dholbach> bdmurray, statik: can we reschedule the meeting? does the time generally suit you? so we could just do it in one of the next days? I'll try to chase up enough MC members so we have quorum then
<dholbach> I'd take an action item to find a time that suits us all over email
<bdmurray> I can go +1 or -1 from now
<bdmurray> on a different day ;-)
<statik> dholbach: I don't mind waiting until the next meeting, next month
<dholbach> thanks a bunch for being so understanding!
<dholbach> statik: you sure?
<statik> dholbach: i am going on holiday tomorrow, yes it's no problem
<dholbach> statik: ok great - thanks a lot
<statik> dholbach: i'll move myself on the wiki page to the next meeting
<dholbach> and sorry for the misscheduling / life-that-just-happens
 * geser is here now too
<dholbach> bdmurray: I'm sure we can find a time together and process your application RSN
<bdmurray> dholbach: Okay, I'd really prefer not to wait 2 weeks or what have you
<geser> the MC is flexible, we already had two ad-hoc meetings in the past
<dholbach> bdmurray: no worries - I'm sure we get it done real soon - I'll send that email to everybody in a bit, so we do some ad-hoc scheduling
<bdmurray> dholbach: great, thanks for doing that
 * dholbach hugs geser, jpds, statik and bdmurray
<dholbach> take care guys
<dholbach> ##endmeeting
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-03-27
<pitti> hello
<robbiew> hi :)
<fader_> howdy
 * lool waves
<lool> slangasek: morning!
<slangasek> morning
<mdz> good morning
<ScottK> \o <--- Here after all ($WORK meeting cancelled).
<heno> morning
 * sbeattie waves
<cjwatson> hiya
<slangasek> pgraner, davidm, Riddell, Hobbsee: ping
<pgraner> slangasek: here
<slangasek> hi :)
<ScottK> slangasek: 56 minutes ago Riddell said he'd be out for an hour on #kubuntu-devel.
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:02. The chair is slangasek.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-03-27
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-03-27
<slangasek> ScottK: ok
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Outstanding actions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Outstanding actions
<slangasek> just a few straggler items here
<slangasek> lool: 303232 - will you have a chance to open the per-lib tasks, or should I go ahead and do it?
<lool> slangasek: I did, sent you the list
<slangasek> and do you guys need help with the actual lib changes?
<lool> slangasek: I'm disappointed your not procmail-ing to your dreams!
<lool>  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=arm-vfp
<slangasek> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=arm-vfp
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=arm-vfp
<lool> slangasek: Well in theory no, in practice help is welcome
<slangasek> ah, separate bugs - these aren't targeted to jaunty yet?
<lool> oh no, will milestone them now, sorry
<slangasek> I was assuming the gcc-4.3 task on bug #303232 should be closed once those lib tasks are open
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 303232 in gcc-4.3 "armel gcc default optimisations" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/303232
<lool> slangasek: I think I'll unmilestone it and make it a bug to discuss gcc opts for karmic
 * slangasek nods
<lool> Ah the gcc one is unmilestoned
<lool> Can't untrack it for jaunty
<slangasek> lool: 'wontfix' the jaunty task
<lool> thanks
<slangasek> pgraner: you said apw and pitti were working on the kernel suspend/resume tagging - is there a bug number for tracking that?
<pitti> apw just said he'll file one with what needs to be changed
<pgraner> slangasek: I should have it in a few minutes, I'll send it over to you
<slangasek> ok
<pitti> should by done by next week
<slangasek> last item on the list is mine; we got the CDs back down to size for beta through a combination of langpack rebasing and more heroic efforts by seb128, but we're not really any closer to having a good way to track where our CD space went in the first place
<seb128> slangasek: I would bet on GNOME translated documentations
<seb128> ie extra localized screenshots
<cjwatson> would it help to get cd-size-analysis fixed not to need packages still in cdimage's mirror?
<lool> (vfp bugs milestoned and targetted to jaunty)
<slangasek> cjwatson: yes; I'm going to spend some quality time with the build logs early next week to see if I can extract all the information I need for this
<slangasek> lool: thanks
<slangasek> so that's it for carry-overs
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Future issues expected to impact the release
<apw> slangasek, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apport/+bug/349621
<MootBot> New Topic:  Future issues expected to impact the release
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 349621 in apport "real kerneloops and suspend/hibernate/resume bugs are hard to separate" [Undecided,New]
<slangasek> apw: great, thanks
<ScottK> I just milestoned a new bug, Bug #348704, since (that I know of) it breaks update-notifier-kde for upgraders.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 348704 in python-qt4 "/var/lib/python-support/python2.6/dbus/mainloop/qt.so missing after upgrade" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/348704
<slangasek> OMG, who put bug #1 back on the jaunty list
<ubottu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1 (Timeout)
<ScottK> It's got me flumoxed, so I'd appreciate it if someone like doko or maybe mvo_ could have a look.
<slangasek> mvo_: do you have time to look at that?
 * slangasek targets the bug as well
<pitti> nothing new for that topic from desktop, for the record (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus is up to date)
<slangasek> ScottK: you also brought up clamav as an issue.  Do we need to talk about that further here?
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<ScottK> It's an issue.
<ScottK> I'm afraid we may have to choose between releasing with an oboslete clamav or with some broken rdepends.
<ScottK> Given what it does, not releasing with the current one is not good.
<cjwatson> how obsolete is obsolete?
<pitti> ScottK: how often does clamav break ABI?
<pitti> ScottK: IOW, if we'd need to do another update for jaunty-updates, would we need to go through that rdepends rebuild dance again, or was it more like an one-time change?
<ScottK> cjwatson: one major version (0.94.2 versus 0.95) behind.  I can (but haven't) quantified how many virus types we'll miss
<ScottK> pitti: Every major version they break it.
<ScottK> They did sort of promise this is the last time and they've never done that before.
<ScottK> All the libclamav rdepends do need changes to work with 0.95.  All the clamd users are fine.
<ScottK> I should know by the middle of next week better where we are.
<slangasek> on the flip side of pitti's question, we have tracked clamav in -backports in the past rather than in -updates, so if the reverse-deps couldn't catch up it's not as though we don't have a way to make 0.95 available to jaunty users?
<ScottK> That's true.
<ScottK> We have also pushed -backports to -security when the time came to keep the maintenance burden manageable (only in Universe).
<mvo_> slangasek: I can have a look at the python-qt4 issue
<mvo_> (I guess I'm as busy as everyone else)
<ScottK> I have a plan for the tech board on my TODO to write up about that ....
<slangasek> ScottK: I'm happy to let you make the decision regarding which way we go on the obsolete vs. rdeps question; let us know next week what we can do to help?
<cjwatson> python-qt4> doko is away for a few days unfortunately
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> mvo_: ok, subscribed you
<ScottK> slangasek: OK.  Thanks.
<slangasek> ScottK: any other things to discuss while you have the floor?
<ScottK> KDE 4.2.2 was tagged yesterday.
<ScottK> It'll get released ~tuesday next week.
<slangasek> sounds good
<ScottK> They've been very good about bugfix only in the third digit updates, so we're operating on the assumption this goes in.
<ScottK> That's it.
 * slangasek nods
<cjwatson> I have a concern I'd like to raise, from while I was thinking about release notes
<slangasek> cjwatson: go ahead
<cjwatson> I went and looked at http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/810 last night and noticed that there are at least some things there that we never properly targeted to jaunty and haven't fixed
<cjwatson> I think we should make a systematic effort to ensure that everything fixable there gets fixed
<mdz> cjwatson: good call
<slangasek> (after cjwatson, I'll do around the rest of the teams in a circle to make sure everyone has a chance to comment)
<cjwatson> bug 290234 was the one I particularly noticed, though I've pushed up a branch fixing that one for mvo's review
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 290234 in apt "Intrepid: Netboot locks up at 2% installing the selected edubuntu desktop" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/290234
<slangasek> s/do around/go around/
<mdz> cjwatson: can we put that onto a checklist somewhere so that release noted items for release x get targeted for x+1 as SOP?
<cjwatson> mdz: good idea, I'll put it on NewReleaseCycleProcess
<slangasek> [ACTION] cjwatson to document release-targeting of previous release release-notes items for NewReleaseCycleProcess
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to document release-targeting of previous release release-notes items for NewReleaseCycleProcess
<slangasek> cjwatson: since you're already partway through, can you also take care of finishing the release notes review in this case and targeting anything else that's outstanding?
<cjwatson> suckered
<cjwatson> ok
<cjwatson> (I've done the NewReleaseCycleProcess change)
<slangasek> [ACTION] cjwatson to complete review of 8.10 release notes to identify jaunty targets
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to complete review of 8.10 release notes to identify jaunty targets
<cjwatson> is there any other similar list of major issues that we might have forgotten about?
<slangasek> not that I'm aware of
<slangasek> I have been sucking in the technical overview errata after each milestone
<sbeattie> bugs tagged regression-release, perhaps.
<sbeattie> (though alas the current set needs more triage, as I've been focusing on the regression-potential tagged bugs)
<slangasek> sbeattie: can you triage them and let us know about any that need targeting yet, or should we get more hands on triaging?
<sbeattie> I'll talk with the rest of the QA team about getting more triage love for them.
<sbeattie> feel free to action me on tha.t
<slangasek> [ACTION] sbeattie to follow up with QA team about getting attention on the regression-release bugs
<MootBot> ACTION received:  sbeattie to follow up with QA team about getting attention on the regression-release bugs
<sistpoty|work> maybe some announcement regarding regression-{potential,release} might refresh memory of some devs? (/me included *g*)
<sbeattie> sistpoty|work: okay; heno did one recently, I thought, but we can do it again.
<sistpoty|work> sbeattie: :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] QA team
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA team
 * heno nods - let's do that
<slangasek> sbeattie, fader, heno: anything else we need to discuss from your corner?
<fader_> I just want to mention that we got a large number of 'failed' results in the most recent hardware tests, but it's because there's a checkbox test breaking
<sbeattie> also as a reminder, I have been assigning regression-potential bugs to teams; please look at the team-assigned reports at http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/
<slangasek> fader_: noted, thanks
<fader_> There's a bug on it and it should be resolved pretty quickly but I didn't want anyone to panic when looking at the report :)
<pitti> fader_: do you guys have some hardware with intel 8x5 chips, with x == {4,5,6}?
<fader_> pitti: Is this about the X issues that Bryce is working on?
<pitti> fader_: right, -intel driver not working on some/all i845/i855
<slangasek> bug #304871
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 304871 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "[i845G] Fatal server error: Couldn't bind memory for BO front buffer (Jaunty)" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/304871
<slangasek> ScottK's feedback was that the problem was resolved for him with the beta
<ScottK> pitti: From last week's meeting I did test with i865 and it WFM.
<fader_> pitti: I'm looking through the hardware list to find the machines that have those chipsets, as we don't currently have a good automated way to find that out
<pitti> fader_: many thanks
<fader_> I'll coordinate with him to get him that list and any other details he needs
<fader_> np :)
<heno> We expect a spike in bug reports after Beta and would appreciate it everyone gave and hand in triaging new bugs
<heno> we will focus mainly on that next week
<rickspencer3> heno: any particular areas that would most helpful to look at?
<heno> bdmurray is preparing a list of 'bugs filed since beta'
<heno> rickspencer3: first of all bugs for packages each person cares about
<pitti> noted
<heno> the installer usually gets a fresh influx too
<heno> (that's it from QA)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Mobile team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mobile team
<slangasek> (pitti already said 'nothing new for desktop' :)
<slangasek> lool: anything you need to raise?
<lool> (may I dump my usual status?)
<slangasek> yes
<lool> list of specs and bugs on our radar <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap>; current high-level status per topic:
<lool> - UNR good shape except for intel graphics regression on eeepcs (349314, 344443)
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap
<cjwatson> lool: I'm aware that there are quite a few things where the mobile team is waiting for foundations to fix stuff, and I'd like to make sure nothing is slipping through the cracks. Is MobileTeam/Roadmap the thing we should be monitoring?
<lool> pgraner: Mind if I milestone that linux bug for jaunty?
<cjwatson> lool: alternatively, if you routinely target the relevant bugs to jaunty, that's fine too
<lool> cjwatson: It's a good mean to put things on our radar
<lool> cjwatson: So happy if you put something there which we should keep an eye on
<cjwatson> lool: no, I meant the other way round
<cjwatson> lool: things that are already on your radar that should be on ours
<lool> cjwatson: Then no, it's where we track what we have to do
<lool> cjwatson: I guess we should use bugs and subscribe to them ourselves when we're blocked by foundation stuff
<pgraner> lool: yea milestone it
<cjwatson> in that case, if you could target relevant bugs to jaunty, that's the best way to make sure we don't forget
<lool> It's a good question, we often wonder how to track e.g. a kernel issue which affects the team which we'd like to keep an eye on but we can't do anything about ourselves
<cjwatson> lool: for example, should bug 347350 be RC for jaunty?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 347350 in oem-config "oem-config-firstboot does not fit in 1024x600" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/347350
<lool> cjwatson: Well I was personally reluctant to push for too high standards in screen resolution, but that's my personal position; it would be high on our list of things we'd like to see fixed on jaunty though
<lool> (general focus on playing nicer with small screens basically)
<cjwatson> I'll target it and leave a comment to that effect
<lool> pgraner: thanks, done
<lool> cjwatson: I'm happy to comment on any bugs where you need guidance on priority/importance, or raise them in my team
<lool> - MID image is okay-ish; needed extra care for beta
<lool> - armel netbook images: pretty bad beta outcome with versatile and iop32x broken
<lool> , so only ixp4xx to release; imx51 netboot will be added with next d-i upload
<lool> - armel's "iMX51 Babbage": first image released in beta required extra hacks; working on merging everything in archive; lots of hardware support issues with the kernel which need FSL patches (wired network, USB, wifi); need testplan
<lool> - VFP libs, NEON: in progress; list of bugs covered earlier
<lool> - other milestoned bugs: generally coming back to focusing on them after the bab
<lool> bage/beta push
<lool> - Poulsbo drivers: late, no progress yet on finding out why the intrepid drivers don't work for us but work for Intel; looking harder and harder to get in jaunty; Intel claimed they targetted mesa 7.3, so a mesa update at this point could i
<lool> n theory impact these drivers, but given that's 7.3 => dev and 7.4 => stable it's not supposed to
<lool> (sorry vim is unhappy today)
<lool> - touchscreen support: ogra didn't have time to work on this due to babbage, and we lack support for a bunch of them
<slangasek> lool: what kind of 'not work' did you get with poulsbo?
<lool> http://paste.ubuntu.com/138987/ is the same dump, but readable
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/138987/ is the same dump, but readable
<lool> slangasek: StevenK says the GL support doesn't work at all; Intel says it does
<lool> Like glxgears not even working
<slangasek> ok
<lool> I'm a bit worried that we're at that point for the drivers
<slangasek> just asking because mythbuntu was having issues with mesa, superm1 uploaded a fix to revert a couple of patches post-beta
<slangasek> but it doesn't sound like it's related
<lool> No, I'm mentionning the state of intrepid
<slangasek> oh, ok
<lool> Because the packaging was supposed to be copied from the intrepid one when complete
<slangasek> right
<lool> So the chain of actions which would give us jaunty drivers is a bit scary: a) fix 3D b) agree on way forward for jaunty packaging (stevenk/bryce) c) push to jaunty and test
<slangasek> right
<lool> However on the mesa side, it's not looking happy with DRI ATM
<lool> This is not really related to mobile, but elisa upstream contacted me about a regression in mesa which is fixed in 7.4RC2
<lool> bug #349127
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 349127 in mesa "Elisa displays video with greenish/purplish colors" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/349127
<lool> And they say it affects other; I poked bryce to check whether that was worth tracking for jaunty; I personally think it is if we have a reviewable patch
 * slangasek targets it to jaunty pre-emptively
<lool> are there questions from anyone with the mobile status?  anything I forgot to cover?
<slangasek> I think that covers it for me, thanks
<slangasek> [TOPIC] kernel team
<MootBot> New Topic:  kernel team
<pgraner> slangasek: We have a Broadcomm STA driver update landing soonish that fixes lots of reported issues.
<pgraner> slangasek: LP 334994 there is a race in the kernel somewhere which is tricky to trigger on real hardware which leads to the kernel not clearing down some sysfs state.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 334994 in linux "Degraded RAID boot fails: kobject_add_internal failed for dev-sda1 with -EEXIST, don't try to register things with the same name in the same directory" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/334994
<slangasek> the Broadcom should already be in, I think
<pgraner> slangasek: apw is on the RAID one
<apw> ack
 * slangasek nods
<pgraner> other than those its the usual ARM goodness
<pgraner> Thats it for kernel team
<lool> pgraner: In general, babbage status is pretty bad kernel side
<slangasek> bug #343254, hmm, didn't I see that discussed in the linux changelog?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 343254 in linux "pulseaudio: alsa-util.c: snd_pcm_avail_update() returned a value that is exceptionally large" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/343254
<lool> I know kernel team is waiting for FSL patches, but I jsut want to raise it that we really care a lot if you can get them in
<pgraner> lool: hense my comment about ARM
<lool> pgraner: Yup, echo-ing your concerns with my specific issues :)
<pgraner> lool: Freescale is the issue unfortunately
<lool> Ack; I think with the beta image we have a better basis to demo our problems
<lool> The other non-FSL thing would be the versatile image which was broken just before beta
<lool> I don't know whether it's worth fighting apparmor there; I don't think it ever worked for us there; happy if you fix it but I don't mind disabling it on verstaile
<pgraner> slangasek: don't know about that one, dtchen has been working it
<slangasek> pgraner: yep; pinged him
<lool> Hmm indeed, I'm having pulseaudio issues myself
<pgraner> lool: we just got it AA working for the imx51 we'll look at it on versatile.
<lool> pgraner: Yes, I think it was turned on in versatile because it was believed the fix would also allow it to work under versatile
<pgraner> lool: bug number?
<slangasek> versatile/apparmor is already targeted; bug #348835
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 348835 in linux "versatile: OOPS in apparmor" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/348835
<lool> 348835
<pgraner> lool: ack, we'll get on it
<lool> thanks
<slangasek> are there any other actionable issues wrt ARM, or that we need to get on the bug list?
<lool> The FSL dependent ones are not milestoned, the rest is properly milestoned
<pgraner> slangasek: we are working to the bug list and working with Freescale so it will go up to kernel freeze
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> cjwatson: was there anything else we needed to discuss for foundations, or are we covered?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Foundations team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations team
<cjwatson> I think I covered it
<slangasek> ok, thanks
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Server team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server team
<dendrobates-> hi
<slangasek> heya
<dendrobates->  a couple of release critical bugs in eucalyptus.
<dendrobates-> bug 347622
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 347622 in eucalyptus "in SYSTEM mode, VM ips are not automatically discovered by CC or NC on switched networks" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/347622
<dendrobates-> bug 347629
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 347629 in eucalyptus "in SYSTEM mode, CLC tries to discover elastic IPs from CC even though elastic IP support is not enabled in SYSTEM mode" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/347629
<dendrobates-> we are also watching bug 334994 which the kernel team is working on.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 334994 in linux "Degraded RAID boot fails: kobject_add_internal failed for dev-sda1 with -EEXIST, don't try to register things with the same name in the same directory" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/334994
 * slangasek nods
<dendrobates-> it affects vm's, however, we are not how valid a usecase. apart from testing, software raid has in vm's
<dendrobates-> That's all that new.
<slangasek> ok, thanks
<slangasek> I think that's it, then
<slangasek> anything else from anyone?  speak now or hold your peace until the same time next week
<slangasek> (or until #ubuntu-devel)
<slangasek> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:06.
<slangasek> thanks, folks
<lool> Thanks
<pitti> thanks everyone
<al-maisan> hello MTecknology, how are things?
<al-maisan> I am pinging you re. my membership to "Official Ubuntu Members"
<MTecknology> yup, I'm here
<al-maisan> I received an email suggesting to meet here
<MTecknology> Just an FYI, the group membership is for official Ubuntu members only
<al-maisan> sure
<MTecknology> are you a member?
<al-maisan> yes, I am muharem@ubuntu.com but my linkedin accont is tied to a different email
<MTecknology> can you give me a link to your profile?
<al-maisan> MTecknology: https://edge.launchpad.net/~al-maisan
<MTecknology> I don't see you having an @ubuntu.com email addy
<al-maisan> just a sec
<MTecknology> al-maisan: actually, give me a minute - I'm discussing something with someone right now
<al-maisan> sure
<MTecknology> I've been basing it off of membership to ~ubuntumembers. You're the second canonical employee not an ubuntu member - I'm not 100% sure what I should be doing with this :P
<al-maisan> OK
<al-maisan> take it easy
<ScottK> MTecknology: Do you have any idea how many copies of your mail some people got?
<al-maisan> I assumed I am a member
<MTecknology> You're approved, but I'll need to think over that whole thing again. You should apply for membership :)
<MTecknology> it'll make it easier for me :)
<MTecknology> ScottK: 2 should be the max, and that should only have been to a few
<al-maisan> MTecknology: will do.
<MTecknology> al-maisan: I assume you know where to apply at?
 * al-maisan just saw this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
<MTecknology> yup - thansk for chatting with me
<ScottK> MTecknology: Three for me.
<al-maisan> MTecknology: thank you.
<MTecknology> ScottK: what route did they all take? :S
<ScottK> MTecknology: One for Kubuntu members, one for Ubuntu members, and one for Ubuntu core-dev.
<MTecknology> ScottK: .... Oh sh**. I forgot that other teams are members of the team
<MTecknology> I'm going to file a bug about that happening. I'm sorry about that.
<ScottK> MTecknology: Well that's fine, but I also believe you're abusing Launchpad.  I think it's grossly offtopic to use the contact a user feature to promote a social network.
<ScottK> I've got it on my TODO to mail you, but since I saw you here ....
<MTecknology> ScottK: I was trying to figure out a better way to hit the "target market", but Icouldn't figure one out. A few people enjoyed that I did it that way actually.
<ScottK> MTecknology: I think your post to planet did that fine.
<MTecknology> oh
<MTecknology> ScottK: I am sorry - forgive me? :)
<ScottK> MTecknology: If I've got a really cool Ubunt t-shirt I want to sell to ubuntu members, is it appropriate for me to reach my target market this way?
<ScottK> MTecknology: I suppose, but just understand that some people are very sensitive about unwanted intrusions in their inbox.
<MTecknology> ScottK: ya. I'll think about it a little longer next time
 * ScottK nods
<MTecknology> ScottK: on the other side of the fence though - it's up to 88 members now
<ScottK> MTecknology: So spamming is justified based on it works?
<MTecknology> ScottK: for some people that make a living off it :P - but no, that was just a side comment
<MTecknology> I'll run away now
<ScottK> on the other side of the fence comes across as justification to me.
<ScottK> OK
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-03-29
<cprofitt> Nick Ali here?
<cprofitt> or anyone else from the LoCo Council?
<jpds> cprofitt: What do you need? He goes by the nick boredandblogging; also #ubuntu-locoteams may be a better place.
<cprofitt> cool... thanks jpds
<cprofitt> I just put our app up ... and technically it is a few hours short of making the three days...
<cprofitt> so just wanted to check if we made it... or will wait until next time...
<cprofitt> jpds, I basically do not want to not attend the meeting and find out we were put up for consideration.
<cprofitt> jpds, wow... you have a boat load of teams...
<jpds> cprofitt: Well, there's not much on the agenda so I guess they'll be able to fit you in.
<cprofitt> sounds good... I will plan on leaving work early so I can make it.
<cprofitt> jpds, the youth team -- is that still active?
<jpds> cprofitt: If you want to make sure and can't grab them on IRC, send a message to loco-council@lists.ubuntu.com.
<jpds> cprofitt: Never really was to begin with..
<cprofitt> too bad... I work in K-12 and would love to see some team that would assist teachers and students move forward with Free Software
<jpds> cprofitt: Yeah, but we couldn't really do much as a small team, and it never kicked off.
<cprofitt> any interest in kicking it off again?
<cprofitt> I can see if any educators in my area would be interested in participating...
 * jpds => /msg
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-03-29
<robbiew> kees: meeting today?
<kees> robbiew: yup! just gathering notes
<mdeslaur> yayay
<kees> jdstrand: you ready?
 * nxvl waves
<kees> heya nxvl :)
<nxvl> you finally got out of my lunchtime :D
<kees> hehe
<jdstrand> o/
<kees> back to a normal time.  I dislike DST
<mdeslaur> It doesn't save me a thing
<kees> yeah
<kees> okay, starting...
<kees> I'm a day behind on triage -- I'll do a bug and CVE run this morning.  over the weekend I worked on trying to reproduce the weirdness we've seen with AppArmor kernel memory
<mdeslaur> kees: too late, I've done it already
<kees> mdeslaur: you did the CVEs?  you're fast!
<mdeslaur> kees: east coast ftw
<jdstrand> totally :)
<kees> heh
<kees> well, let me do the 27 bugs that're New.  At least two are embargoed issues I need to submit.
<kees> which brings me to publications -- I'll be doing a number of embargoed publications for things this week.
<kees> and finding syncs etc.
<mdeslaur> syncs?
<kees> no real news, but we should think about anything we want to put in the monthly report
<kees> mdeslaur: fake-syncs from Debian
<mdeslaur> oh!
<kees> and we should start brain-storming for UDS
<kees> we've got our very own track again.  :)
<jdstrand> kees: re syncs> fyi, check later in the week, we should be up to date as of friday)
<kees> jdstrand: yeah, you're all too fast for me.  :)
<kees> I think that's it.  I might be trying to chase down beta-bugs (raid1 installs, kernel IO, aa memory, etc)
<jdstrand> well, I did it on Friday. one could say I was too slow... I'll take the praise though
 * mdeslaur sends some praise to jdstrand 
<kees> heh
<kees> mdeslaur: is up
<jdstrand> maybe not 'too' slow, since it was within the allotted time, but slow nonetheless ;)
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: :)
<nxvl> kees: they are making you look slower...
 * kees cries
<jdstrand> oh no!
<mdeslaur> I'll take a look at the openssl issues this week.
<mdeslaur> I'm also on triage, so I'll be doing that also
<jdstrand> kees does great things all the time that we aren't talking about right here :)
<mdeslaur> and I'll take a look at Lucid cves to make sure we're all caught up
<kees> hehe
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: +1
<kees> oh yeah, we should start walking the "almost released" checklist too
<kees> it's a bit confused what with 2 betas, but still.
 * jdstrand was just thinking the same thing
<mdeslaur> I also want to document the actions/rights permissions in Ubuntu
<kees> mdeslaur: oh! yeah, that's really cool.  I'm looking forward to that.
<kees> mdeslaur:
<kees> er
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: shall I go?
<kees> you done?
<mdeslaur> oh sorry
<mdeslaur> yes :)
<jdstrand> hehe
<mdeslaur> got my foot stuck in the email trap :)
<kees> heh
<nxvl> evil e-mail trap
<jdstrand> ok, I'm happy place this week. I plan to pull the lever on clamav/dapper, have an erlang update, an embargoed update, a moin merge (for security update in lucid) and a little more work on apparmor-notify
<jdstrand> apparmor-notify wasn't dealing with log rotation-- I fixed that for kern.log over the weekend, but need to fix it for when it drops privs (ie auditd)
<kees> jdstrand: oh, I've disabled parallel profile loading for now since it makes the AA memory-pressure thing worse.  haven't uploaded it though, but it is tested.
<jdstrand> kees: cool-- I turned on apparmor-notify too. so let's coordinate before the other wants to upload
<jdstrand> (apparmor-notify is not installed by default and in universe, so this way, installing it will enable it)
<jjohansen> \o/
<kees> jdstrand: I'll put it in your court -- if you're ready to upload, go for it.  I'm set, but I'm not uploading it for a bit since jj and I are still mucking around with test kernels and stuff
<jdstrand> we probably need to discuss whether to disable apparmor-notify before release, but me feeling is probably no, since it is opt-in at present
<jdstrand> kees: ack
 * kees agrees
<jdstrand> ok
<jdstrand> all that was the 'little stuff' for the week
<mdeslaur> If the package doesn't get installed by default, it can be turned on by default
<mdeslaur> +1 form me
<jdstrand> my big effort is to fix my last 3 blueprint items for libvirt
<jdstrand> due to upstream changes, just getting a newer version to run with apparmor took some work last week. I now have a merge of 0.7.7-4 (from Debian) that works
<jdstrand> plan is to upstream my stuff and then to 0.7.7-4
<jdstrand> I suggested that the server team consider my merge for lucid
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: you want to get 0.7.7 in?
<jdstrand> (see email in ubuntu-server@)
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: that may require virtinst and possible virt-manager
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: I do, but it is up to ubuntu-server
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: I'm pretty sure it will work better with virt-manager, since you have such a newer version in lucid iirc
<mdeslaur> the dependencies between those components are unclear to me
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: the merge is in my ppa, please feel free to play with it, but read my email in ubuntu-server
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: I did read your mail....and I freaked out about the "libvirt chown's the disk files to root:root for people using qemu:///system." part
<jdstrand> I will be working with kirkland one day this week to verify it is ok. if they accept it, then I won't have to backport my patches to 0.7.5 (what is currently in lucid). otherwise, I will
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: yeah-- I didn't much like that either :(
<mdeslaur> "How to become root in 3 easy steps..."
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: it seems it is part of the DAC security driver work from upstream
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: well, if you are in the libvirtd group (ie can use qemu:///system), you have root (though not trivially)
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: that has always been the case (see README.Debian in lucid's libvirt)
<jdstrand> anyway, that chown thing needs to be looked at more/fixed, probably by the server team
<jdstrand> that is it from me, though I have two items to discuss
<mdeslaur> shoot
<jdstrand> ok. I'm not totally satisfied with universe triage
<kees> it's a wasteland :(
<jdstrand> while we deal with supported packages and the community is supposed to triage universe stuff, it doesn't happen
 * jdstrand nods
<jdstrand> now that people are starting to discover and write about UCT, maybe there are little things we can do to at least improve the situation somewhat
<jdstrand> I thought of two things, neither of which are perfect, but both will help some
<jdstrand> a) unconditionally use the version mentioned in MITRE's CVE (when available) as 'upstream: release (...)'
<mdeslaur> ugh
<jdstrand> we can then have automation to check Ubuntu versions and mark then 'not-affected' with all others as 'needed'
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: hold on a sec-- I'll justify this in a moment ;)
<mdeslaur> ok :)
<jdstrand> b) we (manually) check Debian for a fixed version and add it to upstream: released (...) through automation of some sort, and then adjust not-affected releases
<jdstrand> ok. I totally admit that this is imperfect-- MITRE gets the versions wrong sometimes (and we would have to figure out how to deal with when they take a vendor's version and say it is affected)
<kees> so, I already do "a" but only when the wording from Mitre is specific.  I.e. "Foo before version XYZ, is vuln..." rather than "Foo version XYZ in vuln"
<kees> their "before version XYZ" tends to be triggered by upstreams claiming to fix stuff.
<jdstrand> that said-- I think that putting something in there that is accurate most of the time is better than nothing in there. we/community members can adjust the CVEs as needed
<kees> for "b" we need the changelog-CVE-scanner back online.
<kees> when Debian fixes stuff, I'll use a debian version for the upstream: released line
<jdstrand> kees: well, 'b' doen't have to be automatic, but it would be nice if it was
<kees> right.
<jdstrand> kees: re Debian version> right, so do I
<kees> I think the big thing to help with visibility is getting cve-tracker mirrored into LP.
<jdstrand> and when I do fake syncs I update the CVEs that they fix
<kees> unfortunately, that's still stuck on bug 314432
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 314432 in malone "It's impossible to see all the bugs that affect a BugTarget if some bugs are targeted to one or more series and the Master task is closed" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/314432
<jdstrand> I don't think as a team we do 'a' consistently
<jdstrand> ie, there are a gagillion 'needs-triage'
<mdeslaur> I don't do 'a', as I don't like marking things "not-affected" when the code hasn't been looked at
<jdstrand> kees: agreed on that
<kees> that's possible about "a".  I tend to do it, but I've found it somewhat rare for Mitre to say "before version X.Y.Z"
<mdeslaur> too often I've seen it not fixed in the version that mitre has there
<mdeslaur> I've been burned by that before
<jdstrand> I see 1.6.x before 1.6.2 all the time
<mdeslaur> and false negatives are a lot worse than false positives
<kees> mdeslaur: oh, for those I don't mark 1.5.x not-affected.  I _really_ don't trust that.
<jdstrand> and sure, it will have errors. but is having nothing better? maybe it is, but I think not
<kees> I feel like forward-versions are safe.
<mdeslaur> so you guys just mark the "upstream" line with a version?
<jdstrand> I was talking about forward versions.
<jdstrand> eg, 1.5.2 is fixed. therefore 1.5.3 is fixed
<mdeslaur> what are "forward versions"?
<mdeslaur> so you _do_ mark 1.5.3 as not-affected
<kees> while it's sometimes wrong, most times it's correct for "it has been fixed in version X.Y.Z"  but I always leave stuff older (even unmentioned earlier release series) as needs-triage
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: I'm proposing we do that for universe, yes
<mdeslaur> ok, from now on, "in xyz before 1.5.3", we mark upstream as 1.5.3, and anything we have that's 1.5.3 and more recent, we mark as not-affected?
<jdstrand> if nothing else, I think it would be a good start to formalize how we should triage these
<kees> mdeslaur: if I see Mitre say "Foo 1.3.x before version 1.3.7 is vulnerable..."  I will mark 1.3.7 and later in the 1.3.x series as fixed, but any other versions needs-triage (i.e. 1.4.x 1.2.x)
<jdstrand> then maybe from there, we can automate
<kees> scripts/sync-from-versions already auto-closes stuff in the devel release if it's higher than the upstream: released version
<mdeslaur> should we be more vigilant when the cves-run updates descriptions?
<kees> oh, that's a good point -- I never adjust triaging from updated descriptions.
<mdeslaur> when/who runs sync-from-versions?
<jdstrand> I don't
<kees> I run sync-from-versions any time I'm on triage or run sync-from-usns
<kees> it intentionally only closes devel.
<jdstrand> wait-- I don't sync-from-versions. I do adjust triaging from updated descriptions
<mdeslaur> hahaha
<mdeslaur> I don't run sync-from-versions, I don't adjust triaging from updated descriptions
<jdstrand> heh
<mdeslaur> and I've hit wrong "before 1.x.x" in descriptions on almost all mysql cves
<jdstrand> well, technically, I referring to community stuff here, so it isn't horrible that we do different things
<jdstrand> I really just want to identify if we can standardize it and see if after that we can do some things automatically
<kees> mdeslaur: sure, I will take exception with "known poorly triaged" software.  the kernel, firefox, and mysql jump to mind.
<jdstrand> all of those are not community supported
<jdstrand> I am *only* talking about universe/multiverse
<mdeslaur> so, what's the ultimate goal here? to get rid of universe CVEs automatically when old distros get retired?
<kees> the policy I've been working under has been that universe stuff is marked as not-affected if it is the most recent series, and mitre says "before [version-from-that-series]"
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: that already happens
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: we do a big EOL thingamajig
<kees> mdeslaur: to keep the devel release of ubuntu up to date as new versions of software land in the archive.
<jdstrand> kees: I do that
<jdstrand> what I used to do differently is that I would mark versions under that as 'needed'
<kees> for that series, yeah, I'd do the same.
<jdstrand> (being careful of multiple branches)
<jdstrand> however, lately I've noticed mdeslaur doing those as needs-triage, and I've fallen into that myself
<jdstrand> and by lately, I mean the last 6 months or so (roughly)
<kees> i.e. if we have 1.2.4, 1.3.2, 1.3.3, 1.4.0, and mitre says "before 1.3.3", I would marked: 1.2.4: needs-triage, 1.3.2: needed, 1.3.3: not-affected, 1.4.0: needs-triage
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: so you would blindly mark them as "needed" without actually looking at them?
<jdstrand> kees: I like that
<kees> sorry, "1.3.x before 1.3.3"
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: for *universe*, I would do as kees said, yes
<kees> if it said just "before 1.3.3", I'd mark 1.2.4 as needed too
<jdstrand> right
<jdstrand> I'd like to get back to that, and hopefully automate it, if possible
<jdstrand> if not automate, the script it
<mdeslaur> ok, I don't mind doing that
<mdeslaur> although, I don't know what it will gain us
<mdeslaur> but, I can do it
<jdstrand> I think overall it will gain us more accuracy
<jdstrand> (granted, not 100%)
<mdeslaur> more completed, but less accurate :P
<kees> accuracy by way of less bit-rot as we move forward in time.
<jdstrand> I also think that if UCT says it is affected, then someone will be more likely to fix it
<kees> i.e. filling in upstream: released future-proofs us a bit
<mdeslaur> kees: okay, that sounds valid
<jdstrand> practically speaking, if it says 'needs-triage', community people aren't going to look at it. if it says it is needed, then we have a chance
 * kees nods
<mdeslaur> well then we should change them all to needed :)
<jdstrand> which is what I tried to get at with 'accuracy'
<mdeslaur> ok, fair enough, so 1.2.x is needs-triage, 1.3.x is needed, 1.4.x is not-affected
<jdstrand> (ie, needs-triage translates to 'not-affected' or 'ignored' to community folk)
<mdeslaur> It may be worth spending a day or two to go through all the universe CVEs and actually retire a slew of them
<mdeslaur> ie: a one-time thing
<mdeslaur> I wouldn't mind doing that
<kees> I wonder if we should use a UDS slot for a mass-ancient-CVE-triage-jam
<jdstrand> as in, follow our new procedure for what is in there?
<jdong> well what about a context with a prize for the most RMS-worthy beard?
<jdong> errrr
<jdong> wrong channel
<mdeslaur> jdong: lol
<jdstrand> I would say so ;)
<jdong> hahaha
<kees> omg, thank goodness because my eyes just about popped out of my head trying to jam that into context
<jdong> new theme and active window border contrast.
<jdong> grumble XD
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: I would like to spend a few hours and triage the universe CVEs to get rid of half of them
<kees> mdeslaur: do you think there are a lot that will fall into this?
<mdeslaur> it may be easier to get some community help if we didn't have CVE-2006 stuff in there
<mdeslaur> kees: yes, I think so
<jdstrand> I brought this up once before, I think that as far as UCT is concerned, we should treat all universe CVEs as non-LTS
<jdstrand> ie, dapper/universe becomes 'ignored'
<kees> mdeslaur: well, since you're the most sceptical of this plan, I think you're the right person to do it.  :)  I don't want to get too aggressive with it, as you said, since I don't want to start losing accuracy
<jdstrand> then people can triage them away from ignored if they want to maintain it
<kees> jdstrand: I disagreed with you at the time, but after a few months of messing with dapper and triage, I'm convinced.
<mdeslaur> I'm convinced also
<mdeslaur> dapper universe = ignored
<kees> +1
<jdstrand> +1
<kees> ship it! :)
<mdeslaur> +7
<kees> hehe
<jdstrand> what about hardy?
<kees> 9 votes for!
<jdstrand> intrepid is eol on april 30th
<kees> jdstrand: hardy isn't eol yet
<kees> jdstrand: you must have meant something I misunderstood :)
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: when hardy goes eol on the desktop, we should do the same
<jdstrand> kees: if universe != LTS, then hardy/universe is EOL
 * kees agrees.  I think it's a fine policy
<mdeslaur> oh, hmm
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: kde in hardy is not LTS
<kees> jdstrand: oh! er, I understood that the way mdeslaur just said it: once desktop is EOL, then treat universe as ignored for an LTS
<jdstrand> kees: that was most of what I was saying
<jdstrand> however, it gets tricky with LTS
<mdeslaur> I would rather wait for desktop to get EOL
<jdstrand> (which is a subset of what I was getting at)
<kees> right, so let's treat universe like desktop as far as CVE tracking goes
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: which desktop? gnome, kde, xfce? :P
<kees> desktop==gnome
<mdeslaur> what's "kde" and "xfce"?
<kees> heh
<jdstrand> hehe
 * mdeslaur slaps himself for saying that out loud
<mdeslaur> we love kde
<jdstrand> I'm fine with universe -> ignored on LTS after 3 years
<kees> I think for triage, we should extend universe triage to match the "desktop" lifetime.
<jdstrand> however, I think 'ignored' is more accurate
<mdeslaur> and people can still submit debdiffs on server stuff, which we'll sponsor until the server goes EOL
<jdstrand> (since it really is being ignored by far most of the time)
<jdstrand> shoot, I'll sponsor *anything* if it is ok
<kees> heh
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: cool, I've got a gutsy open-jdk debdiff for you to review
<kees> right, "ignored" matches the reality of it most closely.
<mdeslaur> not
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: that's not ok :P
<kees> heh
<kees> you've gone TOO FAR!  :)
<jdstrand> hehe
<jdstrand> let's summarize our discussion (I'll do it)
<kees> jdstrand: here or offline?
<kees> jdstrand: it should probably get reflected in the UCT README too
<jdstrand> 1. universe CVEs for eol released should follow the eol for the release (ie desktop/universe is 3 years for LTS, 5 years for server/universe, and 18 months everywhere else
<mdeslaur> kees: is there a script to set dapper universe to ignored?
<jdstrand> kees: gosh, here-- anyone reading this will need it! :)
<kees> jdstrand: heh yeah
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: no, server/universe should be 3 years for LTS
<kees> mdeslaur typed it faster
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: we don't have a way of separating desktop from server in universe
<kees> right
<mdeslaur> unless someone wants to volunteer, in which case we can revert
<kees> 1. universe CVEs for eol released should follow the eol for the release (ie desktop/universe is 3 years for LTS, 5 years for server)
<mdeslaur> (volunteer to figure out the seeds)
<jdstrand> 2. look carefully at MITRE versions. if it has a 'fixed in' or less than, adjust 'upstream' field accordingly. mark later versions as 'not-affected' and earlier as 'needed. be careful and leaves as 'needs-triage' if status is not clear for multiple branches (ie 1.2 vs 1.4)
<kees> er, now we need a summary of the summary
<mdeslaur> lol
<kees> 2: +1
<mdeslaur> 2: approved
<jdstrand> 3. use Debian version as 'upstream: released' whenever possible
<kees> 3: use Upstream version as 'upstream: released' whenever possible, but it's okay to use Debian versions too.
<jdstrand> kees' resummary of '1': +1
<kees> i.e. prefer Upstream over Debian, but don't be shy of Debian versions.
<jdstrand> hmm
<mdeslaur> kees: why prefer upstream?
<jdstrand> ah, I didn't get to add a thought I had
<kees> mdeslaur: because it more directly tracks to real fixes in the future.
<jdstrand> 'upstream' can have multiple releases in it
<jdstrand> eg:
<kees> i.e. if 1.3.4 is fixed.  1.3.4-32940 will be fixed too
<jdstrand> upstream: released (1.2.6, 1.4.0rc1)
<mdeslaur> ok, I don't have a preference there
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: won't that break scripts?
<kees> jdstrand: yeah, we skipped that a bit.  I'm not sure how to handle it.  sync-from-versions skips anything with a comma in it.
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: it is already supported
<kees> is it?
<jdstrand> oh, err
<mdeslaur> I did not know that!</carson>
<jdstrand> well, I can't speak to sync-from-versions
<jdstrand> I don't use it-- multiple versions works in other places
<kees> we could add the seris logic to sync-from-versions
<jdstrand> (and there are plenty of examples in UCT)
<jdstrand> ok, on '3': use Debian version as 'upstream: released (<debian version>)' where appropriate
<kees> jdstrand: why prefer Debian over Upstream?
<jdstrand> though in the past, if I have a choice between 1.2.3-1 and 1.2.3, I chose 1.2.3-1 every time
<kees> that'll miss 1.2.3-0ubuntu1
<jdstrand> kees: my resummary of '3' intended to not prefer Debian 'ie 'as appropriate')
<kees> which is why I like Upstream
<mdeslaur> How about debian if it's a version lower than upstream?
<mdeslaur> ie: Upstream: 1.2.3, Debian: 1.2.2-14, prefer debian
<jdstrand> kees: yes, but when I have done that I have looked at the version in lucid). I'm convinced though
<jdstrand> reresummary:
<jdstrand> 3. prefer prefer upstream version to Debian version in 'upstream', except where it is fixed in Debian and no info on upstream version is available
<jdstrand> s/prefer//
<kees> mdeslaur: yeah, that's cool; that's basically how it works out.  usually I use a Debian version if it says "broken in 1.2.3" (i.e. no upstream fix yet) and Debian has released 1.2.3-2 with a patch.
<kees> 3: +1
 * jdstrand nods
<jdstrand> alright, I'll add all this to UCT/README and we can finetune from there. I think this has taken enough time
<jdstrand> I have one other item that won't be nearly as contentious :)
<kees> ready!
<mdeslaur> just so we can get started, kees: is there a script that can mark dapper universe as ignored?
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: shoot
<kees> mdeslaur: there's a commandline, one sec
<jdstrand> isn't that in UCT/README already?
<kees> jdstrand: yeah
<kees> mdeslaur: it's under "Stable Release Actions"
<kees> adjust devel_ to dapper, etc
<jdstrand> in lucid, apt is frustrating for me
<kees> wait, sync-from-eol.py ?
 * jdstrand waits on changing the subject
<kees> mdeslaur: yes! check sync-from-eol.py -- it'll need adjustment
<mdeslaur> ok, thanks
<mdeslaur> I'll take a look
<kees> okay, I'm ready for subject change
<jdstrand> well, now I have a question on the last thing
<jdstrand> what are we changing dapper/universe to? eg:
<jdstrand> dapper_foo: needed -> dapper_foo: ignored (reached end-of-life)?
<mdeslaur> sync-from-eol isn't mentioned in README
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: there is an 'End of Life' section in README
<jdstrand> it may need to be adjusted
<mdeslaur> ok, I'll check it out
<jdstrand> 13:16 < jdstrand> what are we changing dapper/universe to? eg:
<jdstrand> 13:17 < jdstrand> dapper_foo: needed -> dapper_foo: ignored (reached  end-of-life)?
<jdstrand> kees, mdeslaur: ^
<mdeslaur> well, I wouldn't put "end-of-life" there
<kees> jdstrand: yup, agreed.  ignored (reached end-of-life)
<kees> oh
<mdeslaur> I'd just set it to "ignored"
<mdeslaur> technically, server packages in universe are not end-of-life
<kees> sync-from-eol.py sets it to "ignored (EOL)"
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: why? we've done '(reached end-of-life)' in the past for supported?
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: not sure what you mean by that
<jdstrand> kees: I think if we state the reason, we should use '(reached end-of-life)' instead of '(EOL)'. less jargony
<kees> jdstrand: +1
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you want 'ignored'. I want 'ignored (reached end-of-life)'. why do you prefer yours over mine?
<mdeslaur> on dapper, server packages in universe are not technically end of life
<jdstrand> I now of only one that receives regular support: clamav
<jdstrand> s/now/know/
<jdstrand> I think 'ignored' will make people go, 'why?'
<kees> mdeslaur: that was my original objection, but I gave in since "ignored" matches reality for it.
<mdeslaur> hmm
<jdstrand> we/the community can triage/retriage away from ignored if desired
<mdeslaur> let me think a sec
<jdstrand> this isn't set in stone or anything
 * mdeslaur smells burning
<jdstrand> we run sync-from-eol only once per cycle
<mdeslaur> ok, I accept
<mdeslaur> EOL it is
<mdeslaur> +1
<jdstrand> we can adjust boilerplate to ignore dapper/universe but we always have the opportunity to edit it
<jdstrand> ok cool
<jdstrand> so, now we are ready for my next item?
<mdeslaur> yes!
<jdstrand> ok
<jdstrand> apt is frustrating to me in lucid because it tries to be too smart. maybe I am doing things wrong, but when I do this:
<jdstrand> apt-get source foo=<earlier version than latest>
<jdstrand> it will often (though not always) grab the latest version
<kees> jdstrand: yes, drives me insane.
<jdstrand> adjusting the ordering of sources.list can help somewhat, but not totally
<jdstrand> fake-security-sync is basically broken until you hack your sources.list
<kees> jdstrand: I worked around it with: $UST/package-tools/u-getsrc
 * jdstrand goes to look
<mdeslaur> is there a bug open for that issue?
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: it is by design
<jdstrand> it is so you can do things like:
<jdstrand> deb http://localmirror/...
<jdstrand> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/...
<kees> jdstrand: oh, perhaps it's just the addition of --only-source that fixes it?
<jdstrand> it will get from the local mirro runless a newer version is in archive.ubuntu.com
<mdeslaur> how the heck can that be by design if you specify a version
<jdstrand> kees: I was going to ask about that-- it is in no way clear to me why u-getsrc works better
<mdeslaur> the design is wrong :P
<kees> jdstrand: can you reproduce this?  I don't see this problem.
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: oh yes-- the changes are by design, this issue may not be and may be a bug (sorry)
<jdstrand> kees: if I have deb-src lines for ubuntu and debian, then I can see it
<jdstrand> kees: do you have deb-src lines for everything?
<jdstrand> eg
<kees> jdstrand: I do, yes.
<jdstrand> well, I'll try to reproduce and it can be discussed outside of the meeting
<jdstrand> I'm done
<kees> okay, cool.  anything else?
<mdeslaur> nopers
<mdeslaur> anyone?
<mdeslaur> Bueler? Bueler?
<kees> meeting over, thanks everyone!  :)
 * genii makes a large pot of coffee, hands out the mugs
<DarkwingDuck> ohhh. free mugs
<apachelogger> free coffee!
<DarkwingDuck> my mug is ugly so I'm happy for a new one
<paultag_> I totally just ordered an Ubuntu mug ;)
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-03-30
<DarkwingDuck> I'm about to order a couple of Kubuntu ones
<DarkwingDuck> the Kubuntu stress ball if VERY nice
<apachelogger> DarkwingDuck: you could like blog about how you need a new mug and how you are going to akamdey and then I am sure one gets mugs at akademy ;)
<nixternal> oi oi
<apachelogger> yo nixternal
<Tm_T> mugs or hugs
<DarkwingDuck> apachelogger: roger :D
<apachelogger> nixternal: ping
<apachelogger> Nightrose: ping even :)
<nixternal> hey, I gotta roll, so if there is an item i need to be a part of, can we do it now?
<Riddell> good evening friends
<rgreening> 'elo
<Nightrose> meep
<JontheEchidna> yo
<Riddell> agenda at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings
<apachelogger> cool, quorum
<apachelogger> I think we should start with membership
<Riddell> membership is the traditional place to start
 * rgreening luvs word that start with Q
<Riddell> DarkwingDuck, shtylman: who wants to go first?
<JontheEchidna> rgreening: like Dan Quayle?
<nixternal> I am +100000 for both DarkwingDuck and shtylman
 * rgreening needs to get Kubuntu-dev!
<paultag_> nixternal: +1
<DarkwingDuck> Riddell: doesn't matter
<Nightrose> DarkwingDuck: you start! :D
<Riddell> DarkwingDuck: care to introduce yourself?
<apachelogger> for reference: https://edge.launchpad.net/~darkwingduck https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DarkwingDuck
<DarkwingDuck> I am David Wonderly. I've been working on Kubuntu-Docs and with the netbook guys for about 7 months now. Was just added for commit access in the docs
<nixternal> also, fyi, I just uploaded KOffice 2.1.2 and l10n for it, about a day or 2 early <- apachelogger your KOfficeUserReview thing, it is simple, no, you can't replace oo.o with koffice just yet, and upstream advises against it still
<DarkwingDuck> I'm married with 3 kids and currently just moved to Mississippi from San Diego. I'm active duty in the US Navy and they are quite supportive of my work here
<JontheEchidna> nixternal: KOfficeUserReview is a spec for next cycle, iirc
<apachelogger> nixternal: you did not read the page :P
<DarkwingDuck>  https://edge.launchpad.net/~darkwingduck https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DarkwingDuck
<nixternal> apachelogger: don't have time to read it, so I just looked at the description
<JontheEchidna> back on topic!
<JontheEchidna> ;)
<Nightrose> DarkwingDuck: can you tell a bit more about your netbook work?
<DarkwingDuck> Testing and bug running with ScottK along with writing the Docs for it
<Nightrose> sounds great
<DarkwingDuck> I've tested it on a netbook as well as my ThinkPad X41 tablet
 * ScottK definitely gives DarkwingDuck a +1
<JontheEchidna> DarkwingDuck: Can I hold you responsible for wasting a few weekends watching Darkwing Duck episodes?
<apachelogger> DarkwingDuck: does tabletting work?
<JontheEchidna> *for me wasting
<DarkwingDuck> JontheEchidna: Weekends? n00b :P
<Riddell> DarkwingDuck: what is the IRC Focus Group ?
<paultag_> o/
<DarkwingDuck> apachelogger: Yes actually it works wonders
<apachelogger> sweet
<nixternal> KC, I have to go, I am highly in favor of both DarkwingDuck and shtylman for Kubuntu membership, and for the logo, I am hoping the KC does me proud and picks the current logo with the blue circle thing
<Nightrose> ok considering doc work is always needed, netbook efforts are needed, ScottK gives you a +1 and the nick pretty much demands it: +1
<nixternal> back in a while
<paultag_> Riddell: I am the lead for that particular team -- if DarkwingDuck will allow me :)
<DarkwingDuck> Riddell: the IRC FG in the BeginnersTeam moderates the BT channels
<Riddell> thanks nixternal
<DarkwingDuck> paultag_: go ahead
<paultag_> I know my opinion is not very wheighty in the Kubuntu community, but I endorse DarkwingDuck 1000%. I have worked with him on the Beginners Team,  and he does top notch work. There is not a day where I have doubted the quality of his work, nor his judgement on any of my teams
<DarkwingDuck> Nightrose: Let's Get Dangerous ;)
<JontheEchidna> :D
<Nightrose> haha
<DarkwingDuck> Any other questions?
<JontheEchidna> I'm good
<rgreening> +1 from me. Anyone who can doc and put up with nix a
<JontheEchidna> +1
<apachelogger> DarkwingDuck: quick answer: python or gator?
<rgreening> t the same time deserves it :P
<izdubar> DarkwingDuck, is a great addition to any group. He has a focus on solution-oriented problem solving. He also likes doing things with minimal drama.
<lex79> +1
<neversfelde> +1
<Riddell> +1 from me too, nice amount of support there
<DarkwingDuck> apachelogger: PERL :P
<apachelogger> works for me
<Riddell> welcome to membership DarkwingDuck
<Tm_T> +1 definately, docs++
<Riddell> shtylman: about?
<apachelogger> ruby would be the correct answer
<apachelogger> +1
<apachelogger> DarkwingDuck: congrats and welcome
<DarkwingDuck> Thank you Riddle and everyone else for all the support over past 7 months
<shtylman> Riddell: ?
<DarkwingDuck> Thanks :)
<paultag_> 'grats!!!
<Nightrose> shtylman: your turn :)
<Riddell> shtylman: please introduce yourself and your work in Kubuntu
<izdubar> Right on.
<apachelogger> shtylman: you wanted to become member? :P
<shtylman> did I?
<shtylman> I didn't realise I had to do public speaking
<apachelogger> ^^
<apachelogger> for reference: https://edge.launchpad.net/~shtylman https://wiki.kubuntu.org/RomanShtylman
<shtylman> well.. here goes
<shtylman> my name is Roman Shtylman and I am a Kubuntu user
<shtylman> :)
<shtylman> I am a software developer
 * rgreening though he was a member! haha
<shtylman> and that is what I do for kubuntu
<ryanakca> rgreening: Same :)
<ScottK> Oh dear, shtylman is got to be a +1.
<shtylman> my day job is software development and my night job is kubuntu :)
<apachelogger> rgreening: always the same with you, you are not paying attention :P
<rgreening> shtylman == ubiquity GOD!
<apachelogger> shtylman: when do you sleep?
<shtylman> so yea... I work on ubiquity and little things here and there
<shtylman> apachelogger: sleep... hmm
<lex79> apachelogger: lol
<apachelogger> ah
<apachelogger> +1
<shtylman> what is this sleep you speak of
<JontheEchidna> +100000 for ubiquity love
<Riddell> little things like OpenOffice
<apachelogger> <3 shtylman
<shtylman> yea
<Tm_T> +1 for not sleeping
<apachelogger> :D
<yuriy_work> +5 for shtylman :)
<lex79> +100
<JontheEchidna> plus another +100 for OOo
<shtylman> I will deff continue my kubuntu support
<neversfelde> +q
<shtylman> it is even my work computer :)
<neversfelde> Ã¤h 1
<rgreening> =i++ from me
<apachelogger> Nightrose: ^
<Nightrose> shtylman: can you tell a bit about your future plans for kubuntu?
<shtylman> basically... I love development... and love making new things so thats what I try to do
<shtylman> Nightrose: global domination?
<JontheEchidna> muwaha
<ryanakca> I don't have any say in the matter, but shtylman has always been quick with fixing any ubiquity bug I pointed out, so +1 from me :)
<Nightrose> haha ok
<shtylman> Nightrose: but really... plans for installer are the same as always
<JontheEchidna> Without shtylman I think that the installer wouldn't have seen any development at all for the past 2 releases, seriously
<Nightrose> ok looking at all the cheering you got and the fact that you took on OOo i have to give you a +1
<shtylman> to keep in step with gtk ubiquity changes
<rgreening> as long as he keeps OOO and ubiquity happy Im happy :P
<shtylman> as well as keep tabs on the artwork issues as they happen
<shtylman> I also talked about a live assistant... which I will reserect at some point again
<shtylman> but that was a broader long term plan
<apachelogger> I think Riddell didn't vote yet
<Riddell> +1 from me too, I'm glad I finally managed to persude him to go for membership
<Nightrose> hehe
<apachelogger> shtylman: congrats and welcome
<Riddell> welcome in shtylman
<shtylman> basically... I like to think I will continue development and branch out for all the little kde related things we need when they come up :)
<JontheEchidna> \o/
<Nightrose> welcome DarkwingDuck and shtylman
<shtylman> yay :) :)
<shtylman> DarkwingDuck: congrats
<DarkwingDuck> Thank you
<DarkwingDuck> shtylman: congrats
<neversfelde> congratulations DarkwingDuck and shtylman
<DarkwingDuck> ;)
<ryanakca> Congrats shtylman, DarkwingDuck
<Riddell> next on the agenda is a discussion on the new logo
<Riddell> artwork is a contentious issue so we may well not come to a clear resolution here but we can but try
<neversfelde> which license will the new logo get, same as the old one?
<Riddell> we're still waiting on the font rendering from the design team so only a standin k for now
<Riddell> neversfelde: yes, creative commons copyright, trademark restrictions apply
<JontheEchidna> anybody have a link to the suggestions handy?
<Riddell> http://jasmine.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/kubuntu-logos.png
<Riddell> that's what we came up with from discussions
<yuriy_work> Riddell: to clarify the agenda -- the text part will use the ubuntu font, monochrome and we are waiting on a K.  we're deciding the icon and its placement?
<neversfelde> so afaik, it is not allowed to change it and only add new things?
<apachelogger> Riddell: does the k color change?
<ryanakca> Riddell: Will #9 have the circle cut at the top or is that a cropping error?
<Riddell> yuriy_work: right
<shtylman> I don't like any of the ones with the leading logo
<rgreening> I love the last one (#10) on the bottom. It's clean and clear
<Riddell> apachelogger: k will match the rest of the characters in colour and style
<apachelogger> k
<shtylman> it feels unbalanced
<JontheEchidna> I personally like the 1 and 2, no preference between those two though
<apachelogger> +1 on what shtylman said
<Riddell> my preference is also for 1 and 2
<ryanakca> rgreening: I wish the gears were more distinct when they cut into the circle in #10
<Riddell> which is what the Canonical design team gave us
<apachelogger> for what it is worth: I find all of them worse than the current logo
<JontheEchidna> the single cog may cause brand confusion w/ KDE, imo
<Nightrose> yea 1,2 or one of the last two
<rgreening> I think Ubuntu switched back to one more like #10
<Tm_T> 2
<shtylman> so... I have some comments :)
<DarkwingDuck> I like 1, 2 and 10
<shtylman> I do not like 3 or 4
<ScottK> I like #8, but I vote for what shtylman likes.
<yuriy_work> ok, here's my take, if we change the logo, it needs to meet the following relatively objective criteria: 1) Keep the Circle of Friends  2) Keep a gear to represent KDE  3) Work in small sizes  4)  work in monochrome
<JontheEchidna> If the spacing was fixed, I'd like 10 too
<lex79> #2 or #10 for me
<shtylman> cause the gear looks like a spoke
<Riddell> the problem there is the circle-of-gear-friends is smaller so at some scales it'll be hard to make out the gears
<Nightrose> yuriy_work: yes sounds good
<shtylman> but I can be persuaded on #3 if others like it
<Riddell> that's why we have 1 for large scale and 2 for small scale
<yuriy_work> I don't think ANY of the suggestions linked by Riddell follow those criteria.
<shtylman> I also don't like the ones without a circle... like #4 or #6
<shtylman> I think the containing circle is nice
<ryanakca> I find the gears in #5 are nicer (smoother) that #3
<neversfelde> so if it is not allowed to change the whole logo, it will be difficult to adopt it, if we choose a logo with the circle button at the end. As far as I remeber we had a lot of problems, while adding -de.org.
<neversfelde> locos will get problems
<shtylman> ryanakca: yea
<yuriy_work> some of these do: http://fatbuttlarry.blogspot.com/2009/08/kubuntu-logo-mock-ups.html   in particular I like the first one "gear hands"
<shtylman> #3 and #4 have bad gears
<JontheEchidna> #8 is the best alternate gear, imo
<yuriy_work> it keeps the CoF idea very well, has a gear, and doesn't have any small parts
<Riddell> yuriy_work: you think #1 and #2 don't work at small sizes?  or some other worry?
<shtylman> im a fan on #8 ... but I am based about that one :)
<yuriy_work> Riddell: no better than the current logo, since it IS the current logo
<ryanakca> Hmmm... Is there an organized voting system on this or is this just the "let's all say which ones we like in a haphazard moment" time?
<JontheEchidna> heh
<DarkwingDuck> What was the purpose of changing the logo?
<shtylman> DarkwingDuck: doesn't work at small sizes
<shtylman> thats one reason
<Nightrose> ryanakca: seeing where we're standing and then fighting it out ;-)
 * apachelogger doesnt like the gears TBH :P
<JontheEchidna> also to keep up with the new Ubuntu branding, since we're a Kubuntu brand
<Riddell> ryanakca: mostly getting opinions now
<DarkwingDuck> So, any of the gear hands will not work...
<JontheEchidna> *since we're an Ubuntu brand
<DarkwingDuck> 1,2,9,10 wont work then... :/
<lex79> can we use the logo also for Kickoff?
<rgreening> Riddell: do you have anything better than the crappy png?
<apachelogger> lex79: that is why we should keep scability in mind
<rgreening> cause its rendered horribly
<rgreening> :)
<lex79> apachelogger: k
<Riddell> rgreening: http://jasmine.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/kubuntu-logos.svg ?
<Nightrose> yuriy_work: honestly they don't look very kubuntu to me :( except maybe 6
<rgreening> and I think we are basing a lot of the opinions on the rendering
<maco> agreed on #8
<crimsun> I'd just like to add that if you're going to go with gears, the actual cogs need to be fairly distinct, else you may as well not use gears
<JontheEchidna> rgreening: have you zoomed in? that could be your scaling issues
<DarkwingDuck> 6 or 8
<shtylman> crimsun: indeed
<crimsun> there isn't any point in saying "look, cogs" when one has to squint
<genii> Meh. I'm not crazy about any of those
<neversfelde> is staying with the old logo an option?
<Tm_T> gear teeth make things complicated
<shtylman> neversfelde: thats #1
<yuriy_work> neversfelde: that's pretty much option 10 the way i see it. assuming the cutouts are fixed
<apachelogger> ^^
<Riddell> neversfelde: we could but I think we'd look very old fashioned and get a lot of "nobody loves kubuntu" comments
<shtylman> Riddell: can we start pruning those which we deff don't want?
<JontheEchidna> we've been using the current logo since gutsy, iirc
<ryanakca> My vote on the gears is #5.
<apachelogger> on that note I would like to mention that I got loads of comments on my kubuntu is no stepchildren blog post that suggested kubuntu to change name alltogehter
 * rgreening agrees with yuriy_work
<Tm_T> apachelogger: nooo, Kubuntu is good name
<ryanakca> I find that it is the smoothest one
<shtylman> I agree.. I like kubuntu
<neversfelde> Riddell: so I would like to mention again, that we should think about kubuntu locos, if we choose an option with the circle button at the end, they cannot change it for their needs
 * claydoh votes for either 5 or 7
<shtylman> #7 has something to it
<Tm_T> neversfelde: same is with Ubuntu ?
<yuriy_work> placement wise i think go with whatever Ubuntu is doing
<shtylman> one of those... "cool" factors imho
<neversfelde> Tm_T: I think so
<apachelogger> Tm_T: it is more about having kubuntu derived from ubuntu
<shtylman> yuriy_work: yes
<apachelogger> thus naturally tying us to the brand in general
<ryanakca> #7, you can't see the space between the gears in the middle when you zoom out
<apachelogger> which ultimately is why we are here discussing a new logo anyway
<Tm_T> apachelogger: and I like to keep that fact too, I find us being part of Ubuntu family
<DarkwingDuck> brb, kids
<apachelogger> *nod* just wanted to mention it :)
<Tm_T> aye
<Tm_T> DarkwingDuck: say hi from us
<yuriy_work> but for the actual logo -- I think all the new suggestions (3-8) quite frankly suck.  I like the ones with the old logo, except that the old logo doesn't work at small sizes (which IMO isn't that big of an issue but we may want to take the opportunity to fix it)
<shtylman> my vote current stands at #7 or #8
<shtylman> I am against the last two
<Tm_T> 2 with new gears
<Nightrose> hmm my browser resizes the logo quite a bit and i find 1 acceptable at small sizes
<neversfelde> the old one or a license change :)
<Tm_T> Nightrose: that's same as 2 but just smaller, right?
<Nightrose> yes
 * ScottK is distracted with making dinner, but continues to agree with shtylman.
<shtylman> Riddell: are there thoughts from the artwork team?
<Riddell> ScottK: agree on which point?
<Tm_T> I would like to get the circle + gears theme less noisy
<Riddell> shtylman: which artwork team?
<shtylman> does kwii have any suggestions?
<Tm_T> Riddell: on everything it seems
<rgreening> Actualy 2 and 8 are nice, though I think I'd rather the icon/gear before the Kubuntu
<Nightrose> the problem with 7 imho is that it is too far from the CoF
<shtylman> Riddell: artwork team being the people that made the ubuntu logo?
<Riddell> shtylman: they want #1 and #2
<JontheEchidna> I think I like #1/2 the best, but I also could be persuaded for #8, personally
<Nightrose> jep
<shtylman> Riddell: any reason?
 * shtylman might feel compelled to persuaded JontheEchidna about #8 :)
<Riddell> shtylman: because it matches the ubuntu logo I expect
<shtylman> I see
<JontheEchidna> ;)
<JontheEchidna> I'd be happy if the majority went to either 1/2 or to 8, basically
<Nightrose> can we have a vote between 2 and 8?
<ryanakca> Zoomed out to 25%, I find 1's gears unviewable, 2,9,10, the gears look like circles. #7 just looks like some kind of celtic knot. #5 and #8 are still clear though. Of course, that's by zooming out on the PNG in gwenview and not the SVG
<shtylman> I think the logo is too big in #2
<rgreening> I wish we had some better mockups in monochrome and folly colorized to base our decision on
<rgreening> s/folly/fully/
<Riddell> Nightrose: we can yes
<JontheEchidna> ah, would the bootsplash image be monochrome? The background is already blue
<Nightrose> ryanakca: is the unviewable gears a problem though?
<apachelogger> JontheEchidna: I would make it less blue really
<apachelogger> too much in your face right now IMHO
<JontheEchidna> even if the gears are unviewable, it'll still look like a blue Ubuntu circle
<shtylman> so I think a good question to ask is ... how small do we want to limit this too
<shtylman> obviously we arn't gonna make it work for 8x8
<rgreening> cause I assume black/grey lettering is not what we would use for the logo with a blue circle/gear and this makes my eyes bleed a little
<shtylman> are we talking 22x22, 32x32?
<shtylman> whats the cutoff point here
<ryanakca> Nightrose: Well, if I'm printing promotional material, I don't want any fuzzy spots on the logo
<neversfelde> do you think there is a way to get new logos for locos from the artwork team or to get canonical to accept a change of the new logo?
<ScottK> Riddell: All of them.
<ryanakca> Zooming the logo list to 25%, that gives me the size of logo I can imagine using on kubuntu.org
<ryanakca> ... that's ~215px wide by however many tall.
<Riddell> neversfelde: they won't be doing logos for every loco team, but they're happy to see people make variations
<shtylman> I still think its between #7 and #8 ... from the options I see
<JontheEchidna> Hmm, I think I do like #8 better. It's clear, KDE, pseudo-circle-of-gears, plus we could use it as a start button
<shtylman> even at small sizes
<ryanakca> Between #7 and #8, #8 is much clearer here
<neversfelde> Riddell: ok
<Nightrose> ok let's vote and see
<Nightrose> who's for 2?
<shtylman> before we vote
<rgreening> -1 #7 +1 #8
<shtylman> I think we need to trim away the ones we DONT want
<genii> #8 is clearest here at all sizes
<Nightrose> shtylman: it's trimmed down to 2 7 and 8
<yuriy_work> i really don't think 3-8 are an option, and i'm surprised they were proposed by the artwork team, because they don't keep the CoF
<shtylman> CoF ?
<JontheEchidna> Cog of Friends
<JontheEchidna> *circle
<yuriy_work> heh
<shtylman> oh
<JontheEchidna> :P
<shtylman> do they have to?
<shtylman> xubuntu doesn't?
<Riddell> yuriy_work: they're not proposed by canonical's design team, they're proposed by us
<shtylman> #8 tries to a bit
<JontheEchidna> Xubuntu has the circle + a mouse through it, iirc
<yuriy_work> Riddell: oh
 * shtylman is against #2 because the logo is too big
<rgreening> I agree, 8 does match the CoF
<yuriy_work> shtylman: they don't *have* to, I just think they should
<shtylman> #7 could be a bit bigger
<JontheEchidna> Yeah, I think #8 is CoF-y enough
<shtylman> yuriy_work: gotcha
 * rgreening ammends my vote to only #8 :)
<Nightrose> ok let's try this again - please say 2, 7 or 8 now :D
<ryanakca> #8 is the best, between #2,7,8
<JontheEchidna> #8
<rgreening> 8
<shtylman> Riddell: can we can a review with #7 having a bigger logo?
<yuriy_work> 2
<lex79> 2
<shtylman> closer in size to #8
<yuriy_work> is that where Ubuntu is placing it?
<Nightrose> undecided 2 and 8
<shtylman> iirc for #8 I used the ubuntu size... but I could be wrong
<Riddell> 1/2 for me
<Tm_T> same
<Tm_T> just needs bit tidying
<Riddell> shtylman: #1 matches the ubuntu size as does #7
<neversfelde> yes, 1 or 2
<ryanakca> Nightrose: I guess #7 got voted out
<Nightrose> Riddell: can we give 2 and 8 to the design team for refining?
<shtylman> Riddell: gotcha
<Nightrose> Riddell: jep
<Tm_T> Nightrose: good idea
<Riddell> Nightrose: we can although that doesn't help in chosing between them :)
<Tm_T> Nightrose: or even if they can merge them
<yuriy_work> i think the smaller size in 1 looks a little more professional than 2
<Nightrose> Riddell: :D
<JontheEchidna> well, I'd like 7, except it's a bit too "busy" for the size it's at
 * rgreening agrees
<JontheEchidna> but #8 looks like it'd go better as a start button
 * claydoh agrees with JontheEchidna , votes 8
<shtylman> 1, 7, or 8
<rgreening> #8 is non-busy and that works best with glow effects like we may want in the splash
<Nightrose> ok we're getting a majority for 8 here :D
<Nightrose> any strong objections to 8?
<Tm_T> not enough CoF
<Nightrose> it still has it though
<shtylman> I have to run... but will be home later to hear the results of this :)
<JontheEchidna> shtylman: have fun
<Riddell> it throws away our current circle of gear friends, which is quite a big change
<Nightrose> true
<Riddell> means the jumper davmor2's wife spent 6 months knitting me is no use any more
<Tm_T> and its not CoF really
<Nightrose> ohnoes!
 * Nightrose is getting a bad headache and should probably go to bed soon
<Riddell> we could go with #8 for beta 2 and see what the feedback from the world is like
<rgreening> time for a change!!!
<rgreening> we are about change.. no?
<JontheEchidna> Let's get dangerous!
<rgreening> :P
<Nightrose> rofl JontheEchidna
<Riddell> nixternal: are you able to do us a plymouth splash with that logo?
<ryanakca> Well, if we go with Nightrose's suggestion of having the design team refine them, mull it over and look at it again in a bit?
<JontheEchidna> I'm in favor of a trial for beta2
<Riddell> it can't be final for beta 2 anyway, no good "k" yet
<maco> i think #8 will hold up at kickoff sizes better than 1&2
<Nightrose> uhhhh
<Nightrose> that will get us flack though
<claydoh> heh we should have a rotating boot splash, so each boot we see a different one :D
<Nightrose> the bad K
<maco> attempted to say 10min ago but network fail: i think #8 will hold up at kickoff sizes better than 1&2
<yuriy_work> Nightrose: we should make it look really obviously crappy
<Nightrose> hehe might work yes
<Nightrose> comic sans :D
<JontheEchidna> maco: current consensus is to try #8 for beta2, and gauge reaction
<maco> ok
<Riddell> I'm still against changing the kickoff icon in the panel, but we should change the kubuntu logo in the top right of kickoff which is rubbish now
<JontheEchidna> Should we use a different font in the bootsplash until the K is ready?
<yuriy_work> oh right... that's supposed to be top right of kickoff.. (my panel's on the left)
<Nightrose> JontheEchidna: better than what we have now imho
<Riddell> JontheEchidna: up to nixternal I think if he's making it
<Riddell> let's move on before anyone else gets a headache
<JontheEchidna> oh, I was wondering, how do we see the results of the feedback surveys?
<Riddell> we poke nixternal I think
 * apachelogger pokes nixternal
<JontheEchidna> that'd be perfect for the new logo
<maco> ah so the different k in the proposed logos wasnt "look! we're the distro with a *K*" it was "uh...we dont have a k yet...*substitute*"
<Riddell> maco: right
<Nightrose> hehe yes
<JontheEchidna> right
<Riddell> I seem to have an agenda item for "Liberation fonts"
<JontheEchidna> maco: the only charc in the new font so far are "ubnt "
<maco> JontheEchidna: *still*?
<JontheEchidna> maco: something like that, not totally sure
<Riddell> alas I'm not entirely clear what it's about
<Riddell> Arne told me Ubuntu was switching to Liberation
<apachelogger> probably switching default font from dejavu to liberation
<Riddell> and would we like to do the same
<Riddell> but if he's switching the fontconfig default font then that'll apply everywhere
<JontheEchidna> I'm for it. Looks pretty good
 * Nightrose would like to send that decision to nuno
<Riddell> since our default font is "Sans Serif"
<JontheEchidna> doesn't nuno praise liberation?
<apachelogger> Nightrose: nuno likes liberation
<Nightrose> ah good then
<apachelogger> I talked to him about the font stuff some months ago
<Nightrose> k
<JontheEchidna> Riddell: according to our kdeglobals file in kubuntu-default-settings we use Deja Vu sans by default
<Riddell> JontheEchidna: hmm
<apachelogger> I also think that there is some patch in Qt that specifically goes for dejavu
<Riddell> JontheEchidna: that's probably wrong
<apachelogger> that thing in kds is because of some bug IIRC
<JontheEchidna> aah, ook
<yuriy_work> since the fun logo discussion is done, I guess i'll go home *waves*
<Riddell> apachelogger: there's a patch in kdelibs from Debian but we drop it (freeflying says it breaks CJK)
<JontheEchidna> -o
<apachelogger> anyhow, that is implementation details
<apachelogger> I am all for switching to liberation
<apachelogger> dejavu is quite the crap if you ask me
<JontheEchidna> +1
<Riddell> liberation it is, if nuno likes it that's good enough for me
<Riddell> ciao yuriy_work
<Nightrose> same here
<Riddell> apachelogger wishes to tell us about Kubuntu/KOfficeUserReview
<Tm_T> Liberation is fine
<JontheEchidna> granted, I personally prefer droid, but I wouldn't push that as default
<apachelogger> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/KOfficeUserReview
<apachelogger> some time ago we came up with the idea of poking some of our users to evaluate KOffice and see where it is standing
<apachelogger> resulting in feedback upstream can hold on to, and so that we know how far away KO is from replacing ooo
<Tm_T> very good idea
<Riddell> I hear nixternal is the man for surveys
<apachelogger> yeah, I just want everyone to think a bit about this and maybe come up with ideas on how to about this specifically
<apachelogger> I am quite sure that we will make the survey based on KO 2.2.0, so that should be sometime in may
<Riddell> apachelogger: I'd say time it with KOffice 2.2 release
<JontheEchidna> may is a busy month
<JontheEchidna> GSoC + UDS
<apachelogger> well, I suppose we should keep the survey open for at least a month
<apachelogger> to make sure we get enough input
<JontheEchidna> yeah
<apachelogger> also, I would think that it makes sense that each kubuntu member tries to do semi usability evaluations using their friends and families
<apachelogger> so that we not only get feedback from geeks ;)
<JontheEchidna> ;)
<rgreening> sounds good
<apachelogger> otherwise the wiki page pretty much states everything we came up with so far, so just have a look at it and think a bit about it
<ryanakca> I'm sure I could convince my dad to participate :)
<apachelogger> I'll start a thread on the ml sometime next week or so
<apachelogger> thanks :)
<JontheEchidna> so.. that's it, right?
<ryanakca> Does anybody know of businesses or organizations that use Kubuntu?
<apachelogger> JontheEchidna wants to talk about colors ^^
<JontheEchidna> oh yeah
<apachelogger> ryanakca: french governement does I think
<JontheEchidna> almost forgot my own agenda item :P
<ryanakca> I'd like to switch out some of the groups on the front page.
<Riddell> one thing at a time
<Riddell> JontheEchidna's item
<ryanakca> Yes, sorry
<JontheEchidna> bug 551117
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 551117 in kubuntu-default-settings "Oxygen Color Scheme by default" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/551117
<Nightrose> sorry guys - i need to go to bed - headache is getting too bad
 * Nightrose is generally in favour of upstreaming
<JontheEchidna> I agree. Especially on laptops with lower-quality contrast capabilities, the current scheme is whiter than my stomach after a long winter
<apachelogger> :(
<Nightrose> so also for color scheme
<Riddell> thanks Nightrose
<apachelogger> Nightrose: nighty night :*
<Nightrose> nini
<Riddell> JontheEchidna: got any screenshots?
<JontheEchidna> ah, for comparison?
<freeflying> Still in meeting?
<freeflying> :)
<JontheEchidna> sec
 * apachelogger notes that even on high contrast displays he finds the current colors worse than oxygen default
<apachelogger> colors is amonst the first things I change after a new installation
<JontheEchidna> upstream Oxygen default: http://imagebin.ca/view/M5ubJE.html
<lex79> apachelogger: me too, and then I change the fonts ;)
<apachelogger> yeah
<Riddell> let's go with upstream
<JontheEchidna> pasty white boy: http://imagebin.ca/view/HOPo2ll.html
<Tm_T> +1 for upstream
<neversfelde> +1 too
<lex79> +1
<Riddell> although I am mystified by their removal of the blue bars on active window decorations
<rgreening> +1 here
<Riddell> ryanakca had a question
<ryanakca> +1 for upstream here too
<ryanakca> 0:01:07 < ryanakca> Does anybody know of businesses or organizations that use Kubuntu?
<Riddell> I do know of one very large Kubuntu rollout which isn't generally known
<Riddell> Weta Digital, of Avatar and Lord of the Rings run it on all their computers
<Riddell> and they have a lot of computers
<JontheEchidna> sweet
<Riddell> about half the computers in New Zealand I'm sure
<ryanakca> Cool
<rgreening> cool haha
<Riddell> but they're secreative, I doubt you'll get a quote out of them
<JontheEchidna> Do we have to get a quote from them to mention them as users?
<ryanakca> Riddell: Any idea how many, or shall I just say "all"?
<ryanakca> Or someone I can email to get a quote?
<DarkwingDuck> what did I miss?
<Riddell> ryanakca: dustin kirkland blogged about it a while ago
<Riddell> not sure if he had a number there or not
<ryanakca> 35000 core Ubuntu-based server farm
<Riddell> ryanakca: but for a real quote, try talking to toscalix who did the kubuntu rollout in the canary islands
<ryanakca> OK, thanks
<ryanakca> Any others?
<Riddell> ryanakca: might be good to replace "Mike" with a real person too
 * ryanakca assumes ScottK uses Kubuntu for his business?
<Riddell> Georgia is the other large rollout, all their schools run Kubuntu, but I don't have any contacts there
 * txwikinger uses Kubuntu for his business
<ryanakca> Riddell: Aye, I used my dad in case someone called us up on false advertising. I'll switch him up with the canary islands / Georgia / etc.
<ryanakca> txwikinger: Cool, I'll ask you about it in a bit
<Riddell> ryanakca: well it's nice to have an individual as well as a large rollout
<txwikinger> Riddell: canary islands... cool
 * txwikinger used to live there for a while
<apachelogger> canary, that was back in the days when aseigo was using kubuntu, wanst it? ^^
<Riddell> and keep poking developers to get some in the "Developer of the moment" spot
<ryanakca> Riddell: I have a "And users like you" blurb to replace the individuals if you don't mind
<ScottK> ryanakca: I do.
<ryanakca> Anybody feel like kicking rgreening out of the Developer of the moment spot?
<ryanakca> ScottK: Feel like answering a few questions after the meeting about it?
<rgreening> haha
<ryanakca> He's been there more than a moment :P
<apachelogger> oh
<txwikinger> aseigo is not using Kubuntu anymore?
<rgreening> I made up for it by the pound
<apachelogger> first let me print out kubuntu.org
<apachelogger> I want a rgreening on my wall!
<ScottK> ryanakca: Probably better later in the week.
<apachelogger> :)
<ryanakca> ScottK: OK
<ryanakca> Riddell: Anyways, I think that's all, I'll prod the appropriate people.
<Riddell> groovy, any other business?
<JontheEchidna> All good here.
<ryanakca> I'll also resend the "Developer of the moment" form to the list, since everybody is eager to fill it out :P
<apachelogger> I just want to say that I love you all!
<DarkwingDuck> love you too apachelogger
<Riddell> group hug!
 * Tm_T hides
<DarkwingDuck> Just remember... it's simpler to get forgiveness then permission.
 * apachelogger hugs everone, even the non-kubuntu people in here ^^
<JontheEchidna> ^_^
 * txwikinger thinks that apachelogger has very long arms to get around 180 people
 * ryanakca grins, wishes kubotu could send cookies to everybody in #ubuntu-meeting and contemplates his homework pile
<ryanakca> txwikinger: ;D
 * apachelogger notes that this would only involve like changing one line ;)
<apachelogger> well, I think we are all done with the meeting
<ryanakca> Aye.
<apachelogger> Thanks everyone for attending
<DarkwingDuck> Thanks for the votes
<Tm_T> thanks, good night
<Riddell> thanks for the central Europeans for staying up late
 * genii makes more coffee and washes the mugs for the next meeting scheduled
<claydoh> you guys rock!
<nixternal> cody-somerville, cjwatson, persia, geser, soren, stgraber - we can haz meeting?
<cody-somerville> we can haz it!
<cjwatson> hi
<nixternal> howdy
<cjwatson> soren SMSed me earlier today to apologise for not making it; he has a conflict
<nixternal> roger that
 * stgraber waves
<nixternal> howdy stgraber
<stgraber> I'll be around for the next 30min on my laptop, then the remaining 30min on my cell. I kind of have a time conflict every week on Tuesday at 15:00 UTC ...
<nixternal> that makes 4 of us....persia can't be sleeping, it is only midnight in Japan
<nixternal> shall we start this meeting then?
<cjwatson> sure
<cody-somerville> Do we have quorum?
<cjwatson> you're the chair, Just Do It :-)
<cjwatson> 4 = quorum
<nixternal> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:06. The chair is nixternal.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<nixternal> and let the meeting begin!
<nixternal> did everyone vote via email that was supposed to vote after the last meeting?
<nixternal> I am positive I did
<nixternal> seems cjwatson and soren were the others along with me who were to vote via email
<cjwatson> I did about ten minutes ago
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> [ACTION] Follow up: persia contacts Angel Abad about his application
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Follow up: persia contacts Angel Abad about his application
<nixternal> [TOPIC]Administrative Matters
<MootBot> New Topic: Administrative Matters
<nixternal> do we have any admin matters this week?
<cody-somerville> I have one to quickly bring up.
<nixternal> rock and roll cody-somerville
<cody-somerville> I mentioned this briefly in #ubuntu-devel but membership on the DMB effectively grants Ubuntu core-dev.
<cody-somerville> cjwatson mentioned this was a bug so we should probably fix it.
<nixternal> so everyone who is on the DMB is now a core-dev?
<cody-somerville> Yes.
<cody-somerville> DMB is a member of core-dev team.
<nixternal> well that was easy...no sweating while mdz grills ya
<cody-somerville> lol
 * cjwatson reminds nixternal that the DMB grants core-dev now ;-)
<cody-somerville> The solution is to make dmb the owner of ubuntu-core-dev instead of a member.
<cjwatson> I believe Cody's suggestion was that the DMB should be the owner of teams but not a member
<nixternal> heh, you would think I would have known that one :)
<cjwatson> I have a follow-up question to that though
<cjwatson> I think there are some other cases where the DMB is an administrator, and some other more closely aligned team is the owner
 * geser waves
<cody-somerville> Agreed.
<cjwatson> so while I think we can make this change for ~ubuntu-core-dev, we might have to be careful about doing it across the board
<cjwatson> at least it would require some coordination
<cody-somerville> If no one disagrees, I can remove dmb from ubuntu-core-dev immediately since its already an owner.
<cody-somerville> s/an/the/
<cjwatson> I think that's fine - if it causes a problem of some kind, I can put it back
<nixternal> +1 - I was just looking at LP
<stgraber> +1
<nixternal> [ACTION]Remove DMB from Core Dev team - make it the owner and not a member
<MootBot> ACTION received: Remove DMB from Core Dev team - make it the owner and not a member
<nixternal> dang, that was supposed to be agreed :)
<nixternal> [AGREED]Remove DMB from Core Dev team - make it the owner and not a member
<MootBot> AGREED received: Remove DMB from Core Dev team - make it the owner and not a member
<cody-somerville> Done.
<nixternal> rock on
<nixternal> before we get on to applications, who wants to chair the next meeting?
<james_w> I have one thing too
<nixternal> alrighty, go james_w
<james_w> I would like a contact address to be set for ~ubuntu-dev and the DMB is the admin
<james_w> covered on ubuntu-devel@ in the thread "Default reviewer for Ubuntu merge proposals?"
<nixternal> what contact address should it use?
<james_w> doesn't have to be covered in the meeting, but if I could get someone to volunteer, or be told to find another way to do this then that would be great
<james_w> ubuntu-reviews@lists.ubuntu.com
<nixternal> everyone agree with james_w idea?
<cjwatson> oh, I thought that had already been agreed
<cjwatson> that being the point of changing ubuntu-core-dev's contact
<nixternal> ~ubuntu-core-dev or ~ubuntu-dev
<james_w> (yes it's not a good address to actually contact the team, but there's no separation in LP between contacting them and sending them every detail of the action in LP related to the team)
<nixternal> gotcha
<cjwatson> james_w: are core-reviews and reviews aliases now, or duplicate lists?
<james_w> aliases
<cjwatson> ok, in that case there was no dissent on the list and the infrastructure has been prepared so I think we should JFDI
<nixternal> [AGREED]Set contact address for ~ubuntu-dev to ubuntu-review@lists.ubuntu.com
<MootBot> AGREED received: Set contact address for ~ubuntu-dev to ubuntu-review@lists.ubuntu.com
<cjwatson> I'll go ahead and do that now
<james_w> thank you
<nixternal> OK
<nixternal> thanks cjwatson, I was about to do it too :)
<cjwatson> james_w: sigh
<nixternal> glad you spoke up before I did :)
<cjwatson> james_w: so now we run into the bug where you need to run bits of SQL to disentangle a contact address from a team
<cjwatson> ubuntu-reviews@lists.ubuntu.com is already registered in Launchpad and is associated with Ubuntu Core Development Team.
<stgraber> nixternal: I'd volunteer as chair for next meeting though as I mentioned after the DST change it's now at a pretty bad time for me where I can only attend half of the meeting with a decent keyboard.
<james_w> uh
<cjwatson> james_w: you'll need to file a question on Launchpad to ask a LOSA to disentangle that - it's a known bug
<nixternal> [ACTION]Set contact address for ~ubuntu-dev to ubuntu-review@lists.ubuntu.com - done by cjwatson
<MootBot> ACTION received: Set contact address for ~ubuntu-dev to ubuntu-review@lists.ubuntu.com - done by cjwatson
<james_w> cjwatson: will do, thanks
<cjwatson> nixternal: not done, blocked
<nixternal> err
<nixternal> [ACTION]Set contact address for ~ubuntu-dev to ubuntu-review@lists.ubuntu.com - not done, blocked
<MootBot> ACTION received: Set contact address for ~ubuntu-dev to ubuntu-review@lists.ubuntu.com - not done, blocked
<cjwatson> and that's ubuntu-reviews@, but hopefully whoever parses the agenda will notice :)
<nixternal> [ACTION]Set contact address for ~ubuntu-dev to ubuntu-reviews@lists.ubuntu.com - james_w to file a question on LP to ask a LOSA to disentagle the already registered address
<MootBot> ACTION received: Set contact address for ~ubuntu-dev to ubuntu-reviews@lists.ubuntu.com - james_w to file a question on LP to ask a LOSA to disentagle the already registered address
<nixternal> there, added the s :)
<james_w> https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/106006 fwiw
<cody-somerville> Shall we continue?
<nixternal> cody-somerville: yes
<nixternal> any volunteers for the next chair? seem stgraber can only do half a meeting
<nixternal> if not, we shorten our meeting :)
 * soren wanders in, slightly confused that the meeting is going on right now
<nixternal> hehe
<soren> I thought this was supposed to be an hour ago?
<cjwatson> soren: there was mail
<soren> Ah.
<nixternal> soren: by you wondering in, does that mean you will the next chair? :D
<nixternal> should we set the meeting time an hour back, say 14:00 UTC?
<soren> nixternal: I'll be traveling during next meeting, I'm afarid.
<soren> afraid, even.
<nixternal> 14:00 UTC would mean I really have to set my alarm :)
<nixternal> 09:00 is way to early to be waking up :)
<stgraber> 14:00 UTC would work perfectly for me and I'd be happy to chair that one then ;)
<cody-somerville> Maybe we should defer picking the chair to the mailing list? I might be able to chair but don't want to commit at the moment.
<nixternal> cody-somerville: I was thinking the same thing
<soren> I have a meeting every day at..
<nixternal> we can do that
<soren> Err...
<stgraber> nixternal: hehe, just need to move a bit eastern and you'd be good ;) it'd be 10am for me ;)
 * soren struggles with the $TZ arithmetic
<nixternal> [ACTION]Decide next chair person via e-mail - nixternal will do that
<MootBot> ACTION received: Decide next chair person via e-mail - nixternal will do that
<nixternal> ok, application time it seems, unless there is any other admin stuff
<soren> 1430 UTC, it must be.
<cjwatson> let's please move on, we're nearly half-way through the meeting
<nixternal> looks like we have 2 according to the agenda
<soren> So I'd only ever be able to do the first 30 minutes of the meeting if it starts at 1400.
<nixternal> ogasawara: you about?
 * ogasawara waves
<soren> Oh, sorry, I thought we were wrapping up with all the talk about meeting times.
<geser> soren: can you email you vote for cyphermox's application? your vote is the last missing and needed for the result
<nixternal> [TOPIC]Leann Ogasawara Per Package Upload Application
<MootBot> New Topic: Leann Ogasawara Per Package Upload Application
<nixternal> ogasawara: care to introduce yourself quickly?
<ogasawara> nixternal: sure
<ogasawara> hi guys.  Leann Ogasawara here.  Member of the Canonical kernel team.  I've most recently been involved with security updates for the kernel but looking to take on the ubuntu-m kernel maintainership.
<ogasawara> which is why I'm hoping to get upload rights :)
<cody-somerville> When did you make the transition to the kernel team?
<geser> I think it's the first time I see GPG signed endorsements in an application :)
<ogasawara> cody-somerville: right after the new year
 * stgraber is switching to the n900 for the remaining part of the meeting
<nixternal> geser: I was thinking the same exact thing
 * stgraber-n900 waves
<ogasawara> cody-somerville: well the paper work was finalized after the new year.  I'd sorta moved a bit before that.
<cody-somerville> ogasawara, You have 5 uploads of linux type packages attributed to you, all for karmic. Why haven't you made any uploads to lucid yet?
<ogasawara> cody-somerville: mainly because that's been apw's responsibility at the moment
<cody-somerville> How many kernel uploads have you contributed to?
<ogasawara> cody-somerville: I'd have to say with the CVE work it's been at least over 20 as it involves not on the linux package, but the meta's and lbm, lum, etc for all supported releases.
<ogasawara> s/not on/not only/
<cody-somerville> By ubuntu-m, do you mean ubuntu-mobile or something else?
<ogasawara> cody-somerville: Lucid+1
<cody-somerville> Ah.
<nixternal> hrmm, I come up with a question and see it has already been answered in the app :)
<cody-somerville> ogasawara, Who is the current maintainer?
<ogasawara> cody-somerville: for Lucid, it's apw
<stgraber-n900> +1
<ogasawara> cody-somerville: I'll be working closely with him to make the transition from Lucid to Lucid+1 and I've already started on the git tree prep work
<apw> yeah we usually have one maintainer per series kerenl while it is in development phase ... this is a limitation of our rebase based update between series
<nixternal> ogasawara: seeing as I can't read the build logs for the PPA builds, can you explain the build failures on some of the packages you have comitted?
<ogasawara> nixternal: the most recent is for the 2.6.34-rc2 Lucid+1 kernel
<ogasawara> nixternal: and it's actually the linux_doc package of all things that is failing
<ogasawara> nixternal: I'm planning to find out why after this meeting
<nixternal> i don't see a failure for 2.6.34 but for Jaunty's linux-meta 2.6.28.18.23
<ogasawara> hrm, jaunty meta failing? could likely be the ABI
<ogasawara> but I'd need to see the log to know for sure
<cody-somerville> ogasawara, It appears you're requesting upload permissions for packages you've not uploaded before. Do you have experience working with all of those packages? If so, where and what kind?
<nixternal> looks like it occurred 2010-01-27 in the Private PPA for Ubuntu Security Team
<cjwatson> cody-somerville: that's just the kernel package set, FWIW
<cjwatson> I wouldn't expect people necessarily to have uploaded every single package in a set before asking for access to that set
<cjwatson> in fact, with most sets, I'd be quite surprised if they had
<ogasawara> cody-somerville: I unfortunately haven't uploaded every single package in that list, but I've touched on a good majority (like all the linux-*)
 * soren hasn't exactly uploaded every package in main (much less universe) :)
<cody-somerville> ah, wasn't aware this was a package set.
<ogasawara> cody-somerville: and linux-firmware I haven't touched as well
<nixternal> soren: well you need to get to it then :)
<ogasawara> cody-somerville: and as usual it involved the CVE work
<soren> nixternal: I'm confident it's in everybody's best interest if I keep my hands off of, say, Kubuntu :)
<nixternal> good point
<nixternal> probably the same goes for me though :)
<nixternal> I think I am ready to vote, any more questions?
<cjwatson> none from me
<cody-somerville> I find this a difficult application because of the lack of traditional indicators.
<stgraber-n900> none here
 * soren has no questions and is ready to vote
<geser> no questions
<nixternal> [VOTE]Leann Ogasawara Per Package Upload for Linux Kernel Packages
<MootBot> Please vote on: Leann Ogasawara Per Package Upload for Linux Kernel Packages.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<nixternal> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nixternal. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<stgraber-n900> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber-n900. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<soren> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from soren. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<cjwatson> +1 - I've worked with ogasawara before and have no qualms
<cody-somerville> +0 - I'm going to abstain.
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<MootBot> Abstention received from cody-somerville. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 5
<nixternal> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 5
<soren> This silly keyboard almost made me vote -1 :)
<maco> awesome!
<nixternal> lol
<nixternal> groovy, congrats ogasawara \o/
<ogasawara> thanks guys!
<cody-somerville> ogasawara, Congratulations! :)
<soren> ogasawara: Thank /you/!
<apw> yay ogasawara
<maco> ogasawara: \o/
<cjwatson> implemented in LP
<nixternal> cjwatson: rock on!
<ogasawara> sweet!
<nixternal> hrmm
<stgraber-n900> congrats !
<nixternal> I just called in the core-dev app dude
<nixternal> there he is
<JontheEchidna> o/
<nixternal> [TOPIC]Jonathan Thomas Core Developer Application
<MootBot> New Topic: Jonathan Thomas Core Developer Application
<nixternal> jon the enchilada
<nixternal> JontheEchidna: care to quickly introduce yourself?
<JontheEchidna> sure
<JontheEchidna> I'm a Kubuntu contributor. I do KDE packaging most every KDE release, as well as take care of bugs and such for the KDE packages
<JontheEchidna> Need links to my application?
<nixternal> we got it :)
<cjwatson> we have it on our agenda, thanks
<cjwatson> from your application: "the powers that be are opposed to making any changes to the package set that a Kubuntu Dev can upload to" - FWIW, speaking as probably the most relevant "power that be", this is a very very misleading statement
<nixternal> yeah, I should have probably tossed in the links via MootBot
<cjwatson> I described the actual state of affairs in https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2009-November/029623.html
<nixternal> [LINK]https://wiki.kubuntu.org/JonathanThomas/CoreDevApplication
<MootBot> LINK received: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/JonathanThomas/CoreDevApplication
<JontheEchidna> cjwatson: Ah, I was basing that off of what ScottK said
<cjwatson> I have *never* said that I was opposed to making any changes in that package set - what I said was that it was difficult to add core things like qt to it right now
<cjwatson> largely because of software inadequacies
<JontheEchidna> Yeah, I feel for ya. Software inadeqaucies suck
<cjwatson> we can go through the application anyway, but I want it clearly understood that it isn't intended for Kubuntu uploaders to be permanently unable to upload (say) kdebase-workspace
 * rgreening looks forward to updated kubuntu-dev package set in future
<JontheEchidna> But as it stands, the package set is limiting  my usefulness, so I think that being a core-dev would be an appropriate fix
<cjwatson> well, let's review that on its merits then
<Riddell> I fully support JontheEchidna's application, he's a first rate packager with a good knowledge of what needs to be done and when
<rgreening> and we need to add additional persons who can upload when Riddell is not around
<rgreening> :)
<nixternal> oh lord, here come all of those whacky kubuntu folks
<rgreening> ;)
<JontheEchidna> I will change my app to properly reflect the current kubuntu-dev upload rights right now
<maco> nixternal: pointy clicky windows user!
<nixternal> as it seems I am bad at leaving endorsements on people's applications, or jon the enchilada doesn't like me, I support his app, I know his plans, and the only thing he can break is kubuntu, which is now apachelogger's fault if that occurs...he is a good packager, i know he is testing his stuff now because he doesn't want to hear me complain in #kubuntu-devel about this or that :)
<cody-somerville> JontheEchidna, Being a core developer is more than just being a good packager. How often do you work with developers outside of the Kubuntu community?
<nixternal> JontheEchidna: by being core dev, you are getting access to what? I can't remember off hand, Qt and kdelibs are the 2 big ones right? were there any other ones as well?
<JontheEchidna> cody-somerville: KDE is the major upstream I work with. Just the other week I submitted a bugfix for the Plasma Netbook shell after consultation with Marco Martin, who works on that component
<JontheEchidna> I also co-maintain the shared-desktop-ontologies with the Debian Qt KDE team
<cody-somerville> JontheEchidna, How often do you work with other Ubuntu developers on Ubuntu that has nothing to do with Kubuntu or KDE?
<nixternal> there are other people outside of Kubuntu or KDE? :p
<JontheEchidna> heh
<rgreening> ouch
<nixternal> this damn basement!
<maco> haha
<JontheEchidna> cody-somerville: Not too much really. I know I submitted an acpid patch once, and some core-dev-ish person sponsored it.
 * soren has a hard stop in 1Â½ minute
<cody-somerville> JontheEchidna, If the kubuntu package set covered all the packages you need, would you apply for core dev?
<geser> JontheEchidna: would you upload this patch yourself if you were core-dev at that time?
<cody-somerville> *needed
<nixternal> JontheEchidna: by being a core-dev, what benefits can you bring outside of the Kubuntu community?
<cody-somerville> JontheEchidna, What is your opinion on this blog post: http://apachelog.wordpress.com/2010/03/17/kubuntu-is-not-ubuntu/ ?
<JontheEchidna> cody-somerville: Probably not, for your first question.
<JontheEchidna> geser: The patch was a fairly straight-forward one-liner (a missing include). For anything bigger I would have consulted with the maintainer
<nixternal> guess that kind of answers my question too then :(
<cjwatson> if I'm actioned to do so by the DMB, I'm prepared to see what I can do to add support for specific exceptions to the seed-based rules for generating package sets
<nixternal> cjwatson: I can [ACTION] ya :)
<cjwatson> I hadn't planned to do so for lucid because I have a ton of other things to do, but if it's blocking people to the extent that they're prepared to apply for core-dev to workaround it, I guess I should change my mind
<JontheEchidna> cody-somerville: Ah, I would like to direct you to the comment I made in that post: http://apachelog.wordpress.com/2010/03/17/kubuntu-is-not-ubuntu/#comment-68
<cody-somerville> Would PPU rights be a suitable work around if you don't have time cjwatson?
<cjwatson> cody-somerville: I think exceptions in package set generation might actually be less effort
<cody-somerville> JontheEchidna, Do you agree with apachelogger's statement that "Kubuntu is not Ubuntu"?
<JontheEchidna> cody-somerville: Well, in that the Kubuntu derivative of Ubuntu Linux is not the same as the main Ubuntu desktop, yes. I do still feel that it is part of the Ubuntu family
<nixternal> cody-somerville: I think "Kubuntu is not Ubuntu" is a bit vague without reading into what apachelogger said. That statement along could be answered yes or no without any further justification and be correct
<JontheEchidna> Here's a list of packages that Kubuntu-dev would need to have for it to be useful to me (may not be complete): qt4-x11, akonadi, soprano, libattica/attica, phonon-backends, kde4libs, kdebase-runtime, kdebase-workspace
<JontheEchidna> ^these are all updated upstream at or around new KDE releases
<nixternal> DMB: what do we want to do here, process the core-dev application or fix it so that kubuntu-dev has access to the packages not previously covered?
<cjwatson> I think we should process the core-dev application on its merits, and the package set fixes would be a fallback position
<cody-somerville> JontheEchidna, The reason I ask is because I'm a firm believer that 'Kubuntu is Ubuntu' and I think this is an important understanding that needs to exist between developers, especially core developers, so that we all work together in harmony instead of inadvertently working against each other.
<cjwatson> cody-somerville: apachelogger is a core developer; are you saying we should expel him? ;-)
<geser> I prefer fixing the package sets permissions and use core-dev as a callback
<JontheEchidna> cody-somerville: For that meaning, I agree. We should all be one big family.
<geser> s/callback/fallback/
<nixternal> hehe
<cjwatson> (I think it's odd to bring up "do you agree with this other core developer" as a question in a core-dev application to which the expected answer is "no")
<JontheEchidna> What I think he was saying was that there isn't a definied level of commerical support that we are entitled to receive from Canonical
<JontheEchidna> I do agree with that
<cody-somerville> I think what apachelogger meant to say was that Kubuntu is not Canonical. This is why I wanted to get clarification from JontheEchidna to ensure the issue wasn't segregation within the Ubuntu community.
<ScottK> cody-somerville: The problem is the term Ubuntu is overloaded and depending on what meaning you pick, it's either true or not.
<cjwatson> JontheEchidna: your endorsements are all from Kubuntu folks, although that's certainly understandable.  If you had asked for comments from non-Kubuntu folks, whom would you have asked?  That is, whom do you think you've worked with most outside Kubuntu?
<JontheEchidna> cjwatson: I've contributed to jockey, software-properties and language-selector, so probably mvo or pitti
<JontheEchidna> though that was more in a coding sense than a packaging sense
<JontheEchidna> and KDE code at that
<cjwatson> well, yeah, KDE code is spread out through all sorts of packages
<JontheEchidna> As a core-dev I would sponsor packages in the sponsor queue that fell under my skill set to review
<cjwatson> I have no further questions
<nixternal> everyone ready to vote?
<cjwatson> yes
<cody-somerville> Are we going to vote on core-dev or are we going to investigate the seed exceptions for JontheEchidna first instead?
<cjwatson> I think we should vote on core-dev anyway; exceptions will take longer, and are moot (for this application anyway) if we think that he is suitable for core-dev in any case
<nixternal> geser, stgraber-n900, soren: any further questions?
<geser> no
<stgraber-n900> nope
<soren> no
<nixternal> [VOTE]Jonathan Thomas Core Developer Application
<MootBot> Please vote on: Jonathan Thomas Core Developer Application.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<nixternal> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nixternal. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<cjwatson> +1 - I was unsure at first, but I spent some time looking over JontheEchidna's changes to non-KDE packages and they're the same type of thing that make it useful for Riddell to be a core developer - extensions of KDE frontends in core packages, that sort of thing - and I think his breadth of experience is suitable at this point
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<soren> +1. Sorry, I'm slow, I'm in a meeting right now.
<cjwatson> soren: I think you need a space after the voting characters in order for mootbot to parse it
<soren> MootBot: fascist
<soren> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from soren. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<geser> +0  - I see fixing the package sets the better solution, but believe JontheEchidna would be a responsible core-dev
<MootBot> Abstention received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
<cody-somerville> +0 - For the same reasons as geser.
<MootBot> Abstention received from cody-somerville. 3 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 3
<stgraber-n900> +0 same as geser
<MootBot> Abstention received from stgraber-n900. 3 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 3
<nixternal> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 0 against. 3 abstained. Total: 3
<geser> hmm, what does result mean?
<cody-somerville> It means we need to defer to ML I think.
<nixternal> i am kind of confused, as we were voting on a core developer application, and 3 made it a vote on solution instead of the fact at hand
<cjwatson> I think it means persia's vote governs
<nixternal> but yes, it needs to go to the ml so persia can vote
<soren> Really? It's a +3.
<soren> Does one need +4 to "win"?
<maco> soren: 3/7 is not a majority...
<JontheEchidna> just as a note, I have to go to lunch really soon here...
<soren> maco: I understand. It just seems odd that the fact that people abstain rather than vote against makes no difference.
<nixternal> right, if persia was to vote +0 or -1, the vote is still positive
<cjwatson> a vote against would make it more difficult to reach +4
<soren> cjwatson: Understood as well. I just wasn't aware that it had to be +4.
<nixternal> roshambo?
<soren> If so, what's the point of being able to abstain?
<soren> nixternal: Over TCP? Sounds like fun.
<Riddell> isn't it a quorum of three?  I've not heard of a majority needing to be positive
<cjwatson> at some point we should codify all this as I think we make it up as we go along too much.  For now, let's defer until persia's vote, and let JontheEchidna go to lunch
<nixternal> cjwatson: +1
<DarkwingDuck> I thought to Abstain a vote was not to vote. Thus allowing the 4 remaining to do the voting. Instead of it being 3/7 it is not 3/4
<JontheEchidna> Thanks. I gotta go now.
<DarkwingDuck> s/not/now
<cjwatson> DarkwingDuck: unfortunately, we never established a sufficiently precise set of rules; we ought to, but in the meantime there appear to be varying interpretations among the voting body
<nixternal> [ACTION]Jonathan Thomas' Core Developer Application - take it to the mailing list as persia needs to vote - currently 3 for, 3 abstain
<MootBot> ACTION received: Jonathan Thomas' Core Developer Application - take it to the mailing list as persia needs to vote - currently 3 for, 3 abstain
<nixternal> [ACTION]Any other business
<MootBot> ACTION received: Any other business
<geser> yes
<nixternal> do we have any other business that needs to be taken care of?
<DarkwingDuck> cjwatson: ahh, Okay.
<cjwatson> nevertheless, if persia votes other than +1, I'll make sure to get the seed exception stuff done
<geser> nixternal: you can now recount the votes for cyphermox
<cjwatson> so that either way JontheEchidna can get his work done
<geser> all have voted now
<nixternal> geser: do you have the count off hand?
<geser> one moment
<nixternal> geser: I count +1
<maco> crimsun says you need at least $QUORUM positive votes
<maco> so if quorum is 3, then +3 is enough
<geser> 2x +1, 1x -1 and 4x 0
<nixternal> geser: hrmm, so what does that mean?
<nixternal> hahaha
<nixternal> does he get it or no
<geser> nixternal: you are the chair :)
<cjwatson> that seems far too weak for acceptance to me
<cjwatson> but, well, I'm not the chair :)
<nixternal> cjwatson: yeah, I was thinking the same thing, however +1 is a positive vote, oh this is fun
<nixternal> great, I either get to make or break someones day
<cjwatson> if you're really stuck, appeal to sabdfl for a ruling
<cyphermox> doesn't sound like a pass to me ;)
<nixternal> I am going to have to say, with the comments left in abstention and the vote against, I would have to say no at this time
<nixternal> anyone want to email him and let him know?
<geser> nixternal: you can tell cyphermox directly, he is here
<nixternal> oh, cyphermox don't take this as a bad thing, i think after touching some more packages, and getting your hands a bit more dirty, you will be golden...i would say you should apply again probably the month after lucid+1 opens, that way there you can touch more packages and fix the things people either voted +0 or -1 said
<cyphermox> indeed
<cyphermox> figured as much, hence why I didn't harass persia more about letting me know of the results
<nixternal> groovy, sorry for breaking the bad news, but it really isn't bad news, it is just a "hey, come back again soon, we need ya!"
<cyphermox> yep
<nixternal> any other business?
<nixternal> meeting adjourned in 10 seconds....
<nixternal> going once
<nixternal> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:32.
<nixternal> thanks everyone!
<nixternal> I will summarize the meeting and get it in the team reports, as well as mail out the log so persia can catch up, though he is in here now and can reaad back log as well
<stgraber-n900> thanks, see you in two weeks !
<nixternal> thanks! have a great rest of the day everyone!
<geser> you too
<nixternal> come on you silly MootBot, update the logs already
<JFo> o/
 * jjohansen waves
<kamalm> o/
 * ogasawara waves
 * apw looks vague and useless
 * JFo slaps apw
 * smb waits confused
<JFo> :)
<bjf> just a sec, i'm here
<bjf> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:01. The chair is bjf.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<bjf> #
<bjf> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<bjf> #
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Action Item: JFo to send out regression bug day announcements on monday
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Action Item: JFo to send out regression bug day announcements on monday
<JFo> e-mail went out last week for the schedule
<JFo> sent to all bug lists that normal bug days go to
<JFo> ..
<bjf> so we can consider this one done?
<JFo> yessir
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Action Item: JFo to do a wiki page on regression bug days
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Action Item: JFo to do a wiki page on regression bug days
<JFo> wiki page for the Bug Day is located here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/KernelBugDay
<JFo> I'll be removing the last 3 dates as final freeze is on the 17th iirc
<JFo> ..
<bjf> done as well, nice
<JFo> yessir :)
<bjf> [TOPIC] Release Metrics: (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Release Metrics: (JFo)
<JFo> Release Meeting Bugs (13 bugs, 6 blueprints)
<JFo> ===
<JFo> Beta 2 Milestoned Bugs (93 bugs against all packages (down 15))
<JFo>  * 13 linux kernel bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 1 linux-ec2 bug (no change)
<JFo>  * 1 linux-mvl-dove bugs (no change)
<JFo> ===
<JFo> Release Targeted Bugs (300 bugs against all packages (no change))
<JFo>  * 32 linux kernel bugs (up 2)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs  (no change)
<JFo>  * 1 linux-ec2 bug (no change)
<JFo>  * 1 linux-mvl-dove bugs (down 1)
<JFo> ===
<JFo> Milestoned Features -
<JFo>  * 0 blueprints
<JFo>     
<JFo> ===
<JFo> Bugs with Patches Attached:123 (up 4)
<JFo> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.has_patch=on
<JFo> Breakdown by status:
<JFo> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-bug-handling (JFo)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-bug-handling
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-bug-handling (JFo)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-bug-handling
<JFo>  * Only outstanding item for beta 2 still open: [leannogasawara] apport -- sub-system directed reporting [amber]:INPROGRESS
<JFo> all other tasks complete
<JFo> ..
<JFo> err
<JFo> all other beta 2 tasks
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review (apw)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review (apw)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review
<apw> PATA and SATA pull out is done and some debian installer fallout sorted out (thanks smb), and the review of the builtin sub-systems complete.
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kms (sconklin / apw)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kms
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kms (sconklin / apw)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kms
<sconklin> I've just released a test kernel which addresses the flickering problem with some Intel graphics devices.
<sconklin> There are five bugs open against this: http://bit.ly/aiKuuL
<sconklin> ..
<apw> We have some flickering issue outstanding which look to be resolved with
<apw> a powersaving patch which is in testing.  We also have one further twitching
<apw> issue which should have test kernels today.  Otherwise we are continuing
<apw> to debug issues as they appear.
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-apparmor-development (jjohansen)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-apparmor-development
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-apparmor-development (jjohansen)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-apparmor-development
<jjohansen> Looking at Bug #458299, Bug #529288, Bug #544764, Bug #549428, which all seem to be inter-related or even possibly symptoms of the same bug
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 458299 in linux "apparmor_parser: page allocation failure. order:5" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/458299
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 529288 in linux ""Kernel Oops" - unable to handle kernel paging request at ffff880323279bf2 RIP is at aa_dfa_match_len+0xd9/0xf0" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/529288
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 544764 in apparmor "unkillable apparmor_parser" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/544764
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 549428 in apparmor "Triggers permanent high i/o load after upgrade" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/549428
<jjohansen> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-boot-performance (apw, csurbhi)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-boot-performance
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-boot-performance (apw, csurbhi)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-boot-performance
<apw> Looks like the remaining ureadahead work will get postponed to Lucid+1 as
<apw> we the userspace bits are not likely to make Lucid.  That likely will close
<apw> off the blueprint.
<apw> ..
<apw> (we can try and drop it from the meeting next week)
<bjf> apw, ack
<bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: Lucid Audio Support (bjf)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: Lucid Audio Support (bjf)
<bjf> Did a bunch of arsenal work, blasted several hundred alsa-driver bugs with automated
<bjf> comments.
<bjf> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: Lucid Better Power Mgt (cnd)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: Lucid Better Power Mgt (cnd)
<cnd> Pushed a new set of packages out
<cnd> and a CFT
<cnd> no news since
<cnd> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: EC2 Lucid Kernel Status (jjohansen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: EC2 Lucid Kernel Status (jjohansen)
<jjohansen> Did lots of testing for Bug #540378, Bug #527208, haven't been able to trip either so we are looking good for EC2.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 540378 in linux-ec2 "BUG: soft lockup - CPU#1 stuck for 66s! [swapper:0]" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/540378
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 527208 in linux-ec2 "ec2 instance fails boot, no console output on c1.xlarge" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/527208
<jjohansen> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Lucid (apw)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Lucid (apw)
<apw> Lucid is at stable 2.6.32.10+drm33.1.  We are prepping to the Beta-2 freeze
<apw> on Thursday, and expect to upload kernels for that early Wednesday.  Anything
<apw> we need in should be up for review _today_.
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (gnarl/smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (gnarl/smb)
<smb> Hardy:       2.6.24-27.68  (security)
<smb>              2.6.24-27.69  (proposed)[ 6]  1/ 3 verifications done (+1)
<smb> Intrepid:    2.6.27-17.46  (security)
<smb> Jaunty:      2.6.28-18.60  (security)
<smb> Karmic:      2.6.31-20.58  (security)
<smb>              2.6.31-21.59  (proposed)[ 6]  2/19 verifications done (+2)
<smb>  - LBM       2.6.31-20.22  (security)
<smb>              2.6.31-21.23  (proposed)[ 6]  0/ 2 verifications done
<smb>  - mvl-dove  2.6.31-212.26 (security)
<smb>              2.6.31-213.27 (proposed)[ 6]
<smb>  - fsl-imx51 2.6.31-109.25 (security)
<smb>              2.6.31-110.26 (proposed)[ 6]  0/ 1 verifications done
<smb>                                            1/ 1 failed! -> #507416
<smb>              2.6.31-111.27 (uploaded)
<smb>  - ec2       2.6.31-109.25 (security)
<smb>              2.6.31-110.26 (proposed)[ 6]
<smb> Karmic ec2 and mvl-dove have no open bug reports but were rebased to the
<smb> version of master in proposed. Asked for quick re-test.
<smb> Karmic fsl-imx51 needs to set the status right. An update for it has been
<smb> uploaded today (consisting of previous and new changelog).
<smb> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<JFo> Incoming Bugs
<JFo> 438/568 Lucid Bugs (up 130)
<JFo> Current regression stats (broken down by release):
<JFo> ==== regression-potential (up 38) ====
<JFo>   * 128/166 lucid bugs
<JFo> ==== regression-update (no change) ====
<JFo>   * 12 karmic bugs
<JFo>   * 5 jaunty bugs
<JFo>   * 2 intrepid bugs
<JFo>   * 1 hardy bug
<JFo> ==== regression-release (down 1) ====
<JFo>   * 53 karmic bugs
<JFo>   * 21 jaunty bugs
<JFo>   * 11 intrepid bugs
<JFo>   * 4 hardy bugs
<JFo> ==== regression-proposed (no change) ====
<JFo>   * 1 karmic bug
<JFo> please note the big bump to lucid regressions
<JFo> ..
 * apw queries
<bjf> apw, go
<apw> whats the 128/166 mean?
<JFo> last week to this week, sorry I should have pulled out the last week's number
<apw> and i presume the bug jump is post beta-1
<JFo> it is
<apw> so in a way its good
<apw> ..
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<JFo> Today is another Kernel Team 'regression-' bug day. Thanks for working on these last week. The next Kernel Regression Bug Day will be on Thursday.
<JFo> Thursday of this week that is
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<apw> .
<bjf> apw, go
<apw> sconklin, is that patch going to be ready for review today?  the pll one?
<sconklin> I can go ahead and send it if you want - I've smoke tested it but I don't have affected hardware
<sconklin> no verification that it works
<apw> sconklin, wahts the h/w affected?
<cnd> sconklin: what hw do you need?
<sconklin> one sec
<sconklin> 915GM and 945GM or some subset thereof
<cnd> sconklin: I have a pinetrail if that is affected
<dhillon-v10> sconklin: I have a 945GM on this machine, so I may be able to help testing it :)
<apw> sconklin, just bear in mind the freeze for b-2 is basicaly my morning tommororw
<apw> and after b-2 we are going to be hard to get stuff past
<sconklin> dhillon-v10: excellent - have you had screen flickering?
<dhillon-v10> sconklin: not really :) should I be experiencing some?
<sconklin> http://people.canonical.com/~sconklin/test-i915/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~sconklin/test-i915/
<sconklin> well, that's the bug this fixes
<sconklin> I'll go ahead and post it to the list - it's been accepted upstream so I feel pretty ok about it
<apw> sconklin, thanks
<sconklin> np
<apw> ..
<bjf> anyone else?
<kamalm> .
<bjf> kamalm, go
<kamalm> I am confirmed for the April CELF Embedded Linux Conf. in San Francisco and have requested an invitation for the Collab Conf. to follow.  I will meet some of you there :-)
<kamalm> ..
<apw> cool
<cnd> looking forward to it :)
<bjf> nice
<bjf> anyone else?
<bjf> thanks everyone
<bjf> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:21.
<apw> bjf ta
<cnd> thanks bjf
<JFo> thanks bjf
<kamalm> bjf: thanks
<psurbhi> bjf, thanks :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-03-31
 * nealmcb o/
<ttx> o/
<smoser> \o
<hggdh> ~o~
<nealmcb> much easier now that it is DST here :)
<ttx> mathiaz, kirkland: ?
<kirkland> o/
<mathiaz>  /o
<jjohansen> \o
<kirkland> ttx: right here
<ttx> nealmcb: hey, long time no see
<ttx> kirkland: good morning Texas !
<nealmcb> ttx indeed - nice to be here
<ttx> so, zul is having a dentist appointment and will probably miss the start of this
<ttx> and jib is in a plane to... Poland.
<ttx> So let's get started !
<ttx> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:02. The chair is ttx.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<ttx> Welcome to the Ubuntu Server team meeting
<ttx> Agenda is: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<ttx> Today's scribe is: mathiaz !
<ttx> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<ttx> Only one action, mathiaz to discuss with cjwatson about ubuntu-server upload team
<mathiaz> ttx: not done
<mathiaz> ttx: replace cjwatson with persia
<ttx> mathiaz: maybe we shouldn't have it as an ACTION todo before the next meeting ?
<mathiaz> ttx: ok
<ttx> if you think you won't have time to complete it by next week, I don't see the point :)
<ttx> mathiaz: Keep it warm in your GTD ?
<mathiaz> ttx: it is
<mathiaz> ttx: just lots other stuff there as well
<ttx> [TOPIC] Beta2 status
<MootBot> New Topic:  Beta2 status
<ttx> So tomorrow, Beta2Freeze will be upon us
<ttx> which means today is probably the last moment to get your non-exceptional fixes in
<ttx> Starting tomorrow, they will require a BetaFreezeException.
<ttx> Remaining beta2-targeted bugs:
<ttx> bug 292971 (mathiaz)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 292971 in libnss-ldap "nscd leaking memory using libnss-ldap" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/292971
<mathiaz> ttx: that will probably require a BetaFreezeException
<ttx> mathiaz: ack
<mathiaz> ttx: as I don't plan to work on it before tomorrow
<mathiaz> (tomorrow is the second MySQL bug zap day)
<ttx> bug 493593 (zul)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 493593 in scgi "MIR for paste." [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/493593
<mathiaz> arg - s/tomorrow/today/
<ttx> and bug 408402 (zul)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 408402 in facter "Main Inclusion Report for facter." [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/408402
<ttx> Those are MIR bugs that still need to progress on some deps
<ttx> A recent search turned out a few bugs milestoned to beta2 but not targeted to lucid
<ttx> LP downtime prevented me from triaging them
<ttx> I think at least one of them will fall into our plate:
<ttx> bug 532733 (kirkland)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 532733 in qemu-kvm "apt/dpkg in qemu-system-arm hangs if a big task is installed" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/532733
<kirkland> ttx: that probably won't be mine
<kirkland> ttx: that'll be lool or ogra
<ttx> ah
<ttx> ok
<kirkland> ttx: i'm happy to help them
<kirkland> ttx: but it's very specific to their use case
<ttx> ok, I'll ping you if there is anything left on that list that we need to care for before Freeze or Release
<ttx> Looking at Beta2-targeted work items
<ttx> on http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-server-ubuntu-10.04-beta-2.html
<ttx> I think all the work items that needed to be completed before the Freeze were done
<ttx> with maybe the exception of:
<ttx> puppet/uec-ec2: integrate upstream patches for testsuite
<ttx> id-mgt-ref-env: apockage latest sssd
<mathiaz> ttx: I may have time to do that
<mathiaz> ttx: (ie puppet patches)
<mathiaz> ttx: upstream closed all the bugs yesterday stating there is a patch available
<ttx> mathiaz: ah, good news
<mathiaz> ttx: if I don't get it done by beta2 freeze, I'll postpone it to final
<ttx> mathiaz: package sssd -> postponed ?
<mathiaz> ttx: as fixing the test suite is not beta2 critical
<mathiaz> ttx: sssd yes - If I don't have the time to do it
<mathiaz> ttx: today
<ttx> ok
<ttx> Otherwise I think we are on track for Beta2, if you think you aren't, please shout now.
<ttx> kirkland: note that I added a libvirt 0.7.7 compatibility test work item to the euca spec
<ttx> to reflect the ongoing discussion with jdstrand
<kirkland> ttx: i'm meeting up with jdstrand on thursday to work on libvirt
<ttx> (can be done post-Freeze)
<ttx> kirkland: cool !
<kirkland> ttx: yeah, planning on spending a full day on libvirt
<ScottK> New for Beta 2 we now have RC2 of clamav 0.96.  Unless something major comes up this will be their last RC before they release, so if anyone cares about clamav, now's a good time for testing (packages for earlier releases in the ubuntu-clamav PPA).
<kirkland> ttx: if anyone else wants to help with libvirt testing this week, sync up with me and jdstrand ;-)
<ttx> ScottK: ack
<ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<ttx> hggdh: hi !
<hggdh> hi, life is good. A question
<hggdh> stress and stability tests for UEC -- mathiaz's tests are enough?
<hggdh> If so, I am done with B1
<mathiaz> hggdh: do you mean the multi_config tests?
<hggdh> yes
<ttx> hggdh: I think so... unless kirkland or mathiaz have hidden tests up their sleeves
<mathiaz> hggdh: ie starting 20 instances and make sure they all work?
<hggdh> mathiaz: I ran with 20, 40, 100, 300
 * kirkland high fives hggdh 
 * hggdh blushes
<mathiaz> hggdh: great - that should do it for stress/scalability tests
<nealmcb> :)
<kirkland> hggdh: if you got 300 instances running, you've been me :-)
<kirkland> beaten
<mathiaz> hggdh: have you gone through all the topologies?
<hggdh> 2 to go through
<hggdh> so I am (yet) not done
<ttx> Should we plan to run the multi-network topology by hand ?
<mathiaz> hggdh: multi-network being one of them?
<mathiaz> ttx: for the time being yes
<ttx> ok
<hggdh> mathiaz: yes. multi-network is higjly hand-driven
<mathiaz> ttx: I may be able to deploy it on the UEC test rig
<ttx> kirkland: you managed to run a CC with 2 NICs on your setup ?
<kirkland> ttx: i have not
<ttx> kirkland: I suggest you go and buy a USB Gb NIC
<ttx> if that's the blocker
<kirkland> ttx: okay, so I should focus on testing multi-network at this point?
<ttx> kirkland: I wouldn't say "focus", but having the ability to run that test would be good
<ttx> kirkland: otherwise it sounds like I'm the only one to test that.
<kirkland> ttx: well, it's a time-consuming effort, so if it's something i need to work on, it will need to be my "focus"
<ttx> kirkland: libvirt has more priority
<kirkland> ttx: i have the hardware to do so, I believe
<kirkland> ttx: okay, thanks, that's what I needed
<ttx> hggdh: I had a question for you about Beta2 ISO testcases. Any way we can preview what you plan to have for beta2, so that we can fix testcases and report issues ?
<ttx> hggdh: in particular, I mentioned having tests for UEC install topologies in the ISo tracker for amd64
<ttx> hggdh: is that done, any way to preview it ?
<hggdh> ttx, no changes from what is already there, no time
<ttx> hggdh: is the plan to change those before beta2 ?
<hggdh> got my hands full figuring out how uec runs
<ttx> hggdh: do you need our help ?
<ttx> hggdh: could someone else working on the tracker (ara ?) help ?
<hggdh> right now I am finally -- I think -- getting it
<ttx> hggdh: if the cases are created, I can certainly document them.
<hggdh> ttx will do them today. This is why I also asked if the stress tests were done for B1
<ttx> ok
<ttx> hggdh: keep me posted...
<ttx> anything else for QA ?
<hggdh> no, not right now
<ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<ttx> hggdh: thanks
<ttx> jjohansen: hi
<jjohansen> hi
<jjohansen> fixes for Bug #540378, Bug #527208 have gone into the beta2 kernel
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 540378 in linux-ec2 "BUG: soft lockup - CPU#1 stuck for 66s! [swapper:0]" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/540378
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 527208 in linux-ec2 "ec2 instance fails boot, no console output on c1.xlarge" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/527208
<ttx> jjohansen: great ! any reason why the bugs are not marked fixed yet ? You need to upload them ?
<jjohansen> no promise that it will fix all soft lockups as they are caused by a variety of things but they shouldn't happen near as often
<jjohansen> ttx: hrrm, I have to check into that, they were just sucked in yesterday
<leoquant> 2/part
<ttx> jjohansen: if they are in the pipe, I'm happy with it
<ttx> anything else from/to kernel ?
<jjohansen> I can't think of anything on my end
<ttx> ok, thanks !
<ttx> [TOPIC] Server Papercuts status for beta2
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server Papercuts status for beta2
<ttx> So we are nearing the end of the Server papercuts effort
<ttx> as a papercut is not a valid BetaFreezeException motivation
<ttx> Status at: https://launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+milestone/lucid-beta-2
<ttx> We have 8 bugs fixed (the inprogress one will move to fixreleased as soon as LP unfreezes)
<ttx> 1 invalid, 2 left open
<ttx> feel free to try to fix the 2 last "confirmed" ones if you have the time
<ttx> We'll discuss at UDS-M how successful it was and if we should do it again, even on non-LTS cycles
<ttx> I think it failed to motivate new contrributors, but still had a positive effect overrall
<ttx> Comments on that ?
<hggdh> ttx: we should discuss on UDS-M how to motivate them contributors
<kirkland> ttx: +1 for another discussion at UDS
<nijaba> ttx: I take it we don't accept new papercuts now?
<ttx> hggdh: yes. it's a more global "server community" discussion, I suspect
<kirkland> ttx: we clearly need to investigate how to motivate our community
<ttx> nijaba: we won't consider any new ones
<nijaba> ttx: thanks for confirming
<ttx> nijaba: for lucid
<kirkland> ttx: i have a similar feeling about the bug-zapping effort
<ttx> nijaba: nominating them could be useful if we decide to pursue the effort for M
<ttx> good transition !
<ttx> [TOPIC] Bugzapping status (kirkland)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bugzapping status (kirkland)
<kirkland> ttx: we really smoked eucalyptus, euca2ools, cloud-utils, and cloud-init bugs last week
<kirkland> ttx: was a really successful, focused week of bug fixing
<ttx> so it was a "cloud" smoke
<kirkland> ttx: yeah, like Lost
 * kirkland is going to shave his head like John Locke
<kirkland> :-)
<ttx> kirkland: did you have external contributors to this one ?
<kirkland> ttx: this week, as I said, I'm planning on spending at least all day Thursday on Libvirt
<kirkland> ttx: no :-(
<kirkland> ttx: but we did focus on euca* cloud* and we do have a better UEC because of the intense focus, I believe
<ttx> mathiaz: did you get some external help on the bugday portion of the mysql bugzap ?
<mathiaz> ttx: pedro and zul helped in triagging bugs
 * ttx remembers having two external people helping for the samba bugday part of the samba bugzapping
<ttx> kirkland: do you plan to run something for week 23 ?
<ttx> (next week)
<kirkland> ttx: i don't think so
<kirkland> ttx: unless you or someone else has a suggestion
<ttx> kirkland: freezes are not the best moment to do so anyway
<kirkland> ttx: i just don't think it's generated the participation that we're hoping
<kirkland> ttx: though it has stabilized the packages we need to be stable
<ttx> ok.
<kirkland> ttx: i think my time will be better spent crushing beta2 blockers
<kirkland> ttx: okay by you?
<ttx> kirkland: yes, and catching the overlooked critical bug in a sea of bug reports
<ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly SRU review (mathiaz)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly SRU review (mathiaz)
<ttx> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#SRU%20weekly%20review
<mathiaz> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
<mathiaz> ^^ anything SRU worth on this list?
 * ttx wonders why the openldap upgrade bugs don't show up in the list
<mathiaz> ttx: the list is generated on Sunday night IIRC
<ttx> ah
<ttx> that will be next week topic, then :)
<mathiaz> ttx: yes
<ttx> nothing from me, then ;)
<mathiaz> there are two bugs nominated for karmic:
<mathiaz> bug 392190
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 392190 in vm-builder "vmbuilder fails silently when providing invalid hostname" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/392190
<mathiaz> bug 502490
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 502490 in vm-builder "ec2-init overwrites user/vmbuilder provided /etc/apt/sources.list" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/502490
<ttx> first one needs to be fixed in Lucid first
<ttx> smoser: what's your opinion on the second one, any value in backporting as a karmic SRU ?
<smoser> hmm....
<smoser> i could go either way.
<smoser> i dont think its terribly, terribly important.
<smoser> as there are many work arounds, like using sources.list.d
<mathiaz> ok - I'll decline both bugs then
<ttx> mathiaz: you're done ?
<mathiaz> yes
<ttx> [TOPIC] Information about server survey (nijaba)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Information about server survey (nijaba)
<ttx> nijaba: o/
<nijaba> ttx: that was for the meeting that was cancelled
<ttx> and it doesn't make sense anymore ?
<nijaba> since that I guess you've seen my email in the ml
<ttx> ok :)
<ttx> nijaba: so we rock more, right ?
<nijaba> it was juste to annoucne that the full results are available to anyone in the community that might need it
<nijaba> ttx: we rock HARD
<nijaba> :)
<ttx> ok, let's rock even harder
<ttx> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<hggdh> ttx: question: should I keep on testing UEC on daily?
<ttx> hggdh: if that can be done at a lesser cost, that would be great to spot regressions
<ttx> hggdh: if it's fully automated and doesn't require your constant attention, I'd say yes
<ScottK> ttx: I think we should have a session at UDS on what we want 12.04 to look like, so we have an idea of longer term stuff we need to start on now.
<hggdh> I think *now* it is less cost, the most difficult was to understand the setup and UEC itself
<ttx> ScottK: that's a very good point.
<mathiaz> hggdh: note that daily are not always functional
<ttx> Discuss anything that would span multiple releases, as well as what needs to be done for the next 6 months
<ttx> hggdh: what needs to be done is the post-milestone validation and the pre-milestone candidate testing. Anything else (like testing all dailies) is bonus points
<ttx> (what needs to be done is tracked in the spec)
<ttx> ok, let's wrap up, if nobody else has any comment
<ttx> Announce next meeting date and time : same time, same place, next week.
<ttx> I gather DST makes this time slightly more convenient ?
<Daviey> (less)
<ttx> (equal)
<kirkland> ttx: more!
<mathiaz> more would even be better
<ttx> mathiaz: sleepy head
<Daviey> 15:00 UTC ++
<ttx> Try to pay lots of beers to jib at UDS to make him change time
<ttx> Daviey: ^
<ttx> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:56.
<Daviey> ttx: wilco :)
<ttx> thanks everyone !
 * ttx gets busy updating his LP queue
 * ara waves
 * davmor2 waves back
 * marjo waves
 * fader_ leans against the wall and tries to look nonchalant.
 * cyphermox waves
 * bladernr_ looks more nonchalant than fader
 * charlie-tca waves, too
 * sbeattie waves and then grabs coffee quick.
<davmor2> fader_: that's the wall I just painted it's still wet
<marjo> #startmeeting QA Team Meeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:59. The chair is marjo.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<fader_> davmor2: That's just camouflage for me then
<marjo> hi folks
<marjo> Agenda:
<marjo>     * Introduce Mathieu Trudel (cyphermox)
<marjo>     * SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
<marjo>     * Bug Day status -- pvillavi
<marjo> #topic Introduce Mathieu Trudel
<cyphermox> that's my cue?
<marjo> [TOPIC] Introduce Mathieu Trudel
<MootBot> New Topic:  Introduce Mathieu Trudel
<marjo> cyphermox yes
<cyphermox> so hi everyone! My name is Mathieu Trudel-Lapierre, and people usually just call me Matt
<sbeattie> welcome cyphermox!
<cyphermox> I've started at Canonical on Monday in hardware certification, working with Marc
<marjo> Mathieu joined Canonical this week as HW Certification Engineer
<fader_> cyphermox: Welcome!
<ara> cyphermox, welcome!
<bladernr_> cyphermox:  Welcome!
<charlie-tca> cyphermox: welcome
<cyphermox> before that I've been doing lots of work on NetworkManager specifically, as well as on other projects in Ubuntu, a lot of them in universe (goal: joining the MOTU team), or in collaboration with jcastro
<cyphermox> thanks!
<marjo> cyphermox: welcome again
<davmor2> cyphermox: welcome to the madhouse
<marjo> [TOPIC] SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
<cyphermox> I'm also the debian maintainer for acct, concordance, congruity, ethos, and hopefully soon emerillon :)
<MootBot> New Topic:  SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
<sbeattie> SRU Activity report for the past week (since 2010-03-24):
<sbeattie> * karmic: 3 new packages in -proposed (devicekit-disks, linux, tzdata) and 6 packages pushed to -updates (devicekit-disks(twice), gst-plugins-bad0.10, linux-firmware-nonfree, rrdtool, tzdata)
<sbeattie> * jaunty: 2 new packages in -proposed (linux-firmware, tzdata) and 1 package pushed to -updates (tzdata)
<sbeattie> * intrepid: 1 new package in -proposed (tzdata) and 1 package pushed to -updates (tzdata)
<sbeattie> * hardy: 2 new packages in -proposed (linux, tzdata) and 2 packages pushed to -updates (tzdata, zabbix)
<sbeattie> * dapper: 1 new package in -proposed (langpack-locales) and 1 package pushed to -updates (langpack-locales)
<sbeattie> Thanks to MichaL, AlexR, ÎÎ¯ÎºÎ¿Ï ÎÎ»ÎµÎ¾Î±Î½Î´ÏÎ®Ï, Rodrigo Campos, Rasmus, Michael Goetze, Soos Gergely, and Matthew L. Dailey for testing SRUs this week.
<sbeattie> Unless there's any questions, that's all I've got on the SRU front.
<pedro_> (sorry i'm having some connection problems... damn isp)
<marjo> pedro_ please watch your language!
<marjo> darn isp
<marjo> sbeattie: thx
<marjo> [TOPIC] Bug Day status -- pvillavi
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bug Day status -- pvillavi
<marjo> since pedro's having problems, let's get back to him later
<marjo> [TOPIC] New topics for today?
<MootBot> New Topic:  New topics for today?
<marjo> reminder: Lucid Beta 2 is next Thursday, 8 April
<cr3> Checkbox 0.9.1 candidate has been up for update in Lucid for a while, hopefully will be uploaded today
<marjo> cr3: thx
<cr3> hggdh: ^^^ that's the version that'll fix the problem detecting your hard drive
<marjo> folks: any other topics for today?
<bladernr_> cr3:  bug number?  I may have run into that myself this morning
<hggdh> cr3: cool
<sbeattie> cr3: are all the open lucid issues for checkbox addressed in 0.9.1?
<sbeattie> (e.g. vbox lack of chassis info issue)
<cr3> bladernr_: bug #549714
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 549714 in checkbox "checkbox does not detect the hard drive" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/549714
<bladernr_> cr3:  thanks
<cr3> sbeattie: yes, bug #537435 is also fixed in the above version
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 537435 in checkbox "udev_resource crashed with KeyError in product()" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/537435
<cr3> sbeattie: once that's uploaded, I'll have another look over the pending bugs. I expect to have another version 0.9.2 after the weekend
<marjo> pedro_ are you up & reliable?
<pedro_> marjo, yeah seems so
<sbeattie> cr3: okay. I was having trouble running the qa-regression-testing stuff under checkbox, but I'm not sure I'm fully up to date with your tip.
<marjo> go for it quick!
<pedro_> so if you haven't talked about bug days we had one last week about Ubuntu Translations
<pedro_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20100325
<pedro_> ~50 bugs were triaged, thanks a lot to dpm, kamusin and qense for helping out that day!
<pedro_> Tomorrow we're celebrating one based on Nautilus with an special focus on Samba issues so if you use nautilus for access any smb share please test and file bugs about it
<pedro_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20100401
<pedro_> there's plenty of bugs to be triaged so if you want to help just join us tomorrow at #ubuntu-bugs
<pedro_> that's all from here
<pedro_> ( am i still online? )
<marjo> pedro_ thx
<pedro_> \o/
<hggdh> heh
<marjo> any more new topics for today?
<marjo> if not, i propose we adjourn the meeting
<marjo> going once
<marjo> going twice
<marjo> meeting adjourned
<marjo> thx everyone!
<fader_> Thanks all
<marjo> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:19.
<pedro_> thanks and sorry again
<marjo> pedro_ no worries
<marjo> cr3: stuff happens
<balto_> hello everyone
<balto_> nick rex
<highvoltage> hi everyone
<mhall119> hi
<bencrisford> fancy seeing you here :)
 * stgraber waves
<mgariepy> hi everyone !
<bencrisford> mgariepy: hi! :)
<Lns> hello!
<highvoltage> agenda, as always is on https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/Meetings/Agenda
<alkisg> Hi people
<stgraber> on Revolution Linux's side, highvoltage did all the work this week ;) so you won't hear much from me at this meeting.
<highvoltage> I'm just finishing a quick upload before I start (something I want to show you)
<highvoltage> this is what our ubiquity-slideshow will look like: http://people.ubuntu.com/~jonathan/files/edubuntu/ubiquity-slideshow/
<mhall119> does anyone have a link to a Plymouth theme how-to?
<stgraber> highvoltage: Would be great if you or I could record that demo I made on Monday at the Stand up and upload that somewhere (youtube or similar)
<highvoltage> the ubuntu logos will be replaced by edubuntu logos once we ehave them
<highvoltage> stgraber: good idea! noted
<ScottK> We got the official "K" for Kubuntu yesterday, so there's hope.
<stgraber> ScottK: yep, saw that last night, hoping to get the "E" and "d" soon ;)
<mhall119> wait, is someone still making all the letters for the font?
<highvoltage> ScottK: I saw on planet ubuntu! and it did indeed give me hope :)
<ScottK> Yes.
<mhall119> wow, I thought it was done
<highvoltage> mhall119: yep
<bencrisford> highvoltage: i was working on some web buttons to advertise edubuntu..  i dont know if they're any good
<ScottK> When they published, the only letters done were Ubunt.
<mhall119> heh
<bencrisford> they're .gifs in case thats a problem :/, the ubuntu ones are flash i think?
<Lns> highvoltage: the slideshow .. does it have controls to go back/forth?
<highvoltage> bencrisford: upload them somewhere or paste them on a wiki page and send a link to the list! perhaps we or at least someone could use them!
<bencrisford> highvoltage: already hav done ;) http://i42.tinypic.com/mctf28.gif
<highvoltage> Lns: nope, it just cycles through, it's possible to add back and forward buttons with javascript though
<Lns> highvoltage: i didn't know there was more than 1 slide until i went back to the page ;)
<highvoltage> bencrisford: cool
<Lns> looks really nice though so far
<mhall119> Lns: neither did I
<bencrisford> nor me
<Lns> hmm, s/dark/gray matter ?
<mhall119> yeah
<highvoltage> Lns: ah right! I've been watching too many cosmology documentaries lately!
<highvoltage> I'll change that
<Lns> hahahaha =) nice
<stgraber> ;)
<mhall119> it's all that LHC stuff
<Lns> seriously
<highvoltage> besides that, our artwork is pretty much shaping up, we never made lots of concious decisions around artwork
<highvoltage> but where there was doubt I just used white with a red border (like in the radiance theme)
<highvoltage> and green like we have in the trees
<highvoltage> for background colours (like in plymouth) I just picked it from the light colours on the wallpaper
<mhall119> highvoltage: I need to learn how to make a plymouth theme, any good resources?
<highvoltage> overall I think our artwork will work ok and it kind of looks like it was designed to all look like that and fit together :)
<highvoltage> I'll probably make an Edubuntu branding page like the Ubuntu one, then we can propose changes and improvements for the future on that as well
<highvoltage> mhall119: the simplest is probably to grab the source package for the lubuntu or xubuntu plymouth themes and look what they did,
<mhall119> ok
<mhall119> is XSplash still used in 10.04?
<highvoltage> mhall119: you don't have to compile the themes like with usplash, so they're quite self-explanatory
<mhall119> ok
<highvoltage> mhall119: unfortunately there's not much in terms of official docs for plymouth yet (as far as I know)
<mhall119> thanks anyway
<highvoltage> mhall119: no usplash is history
<mhall119> but XSplash is still around, yes?
<stgraber> nope
<stgraber> xsplash is history as well
<highvoltage> I uploaded a new artwork package that contains a script that will add "install LTSP" and "install Netbook interface" icons in the desktop, so that you could install that after the main installation if you want
<highvoltage> I'm having some trouble with the ltsp part, a bug with installing ldm-server keeps byting me but it doesn't seem to affect anyone else
<highvoltage> if anyone could download the next daily build and help figure that out, it would be great
<Lns> highvoltage: what's the issue?
<stgraber> that's hoping the next daily will actually build
<stgraber> last night's failed due to langpack and gnome being slightly broken
<highvoltage> Lns: well, the bug had something to do with inetd misbehavingI think, but it's been resolved, upon installation, it just hangs, and strace repeats the following about every second or so:
<highvoltage> pselect6(25, [0 24], NULL, NULL, {1, 0}, {[], 8}) = 0 (Timeout)
<highvoltage> waitpid(8292, 0xbfa77bb0, WNOHANG)      = 0
<Lns> highvoltage: alkisg and i both have had that issue. if you restart openbsd-inetd it'll keep installing ldm-server...so you're not alone :) it's in normal ubuntu as well
<highvoltage> (and I'm not even sure what that means except for the opvious timeout and hang description)
<highvoltage> Lns: but it's been fixed recently?
<Lns> highvoltage: stgraber fixed it i think..? or thought he did
<Lns> i forget what the outcome was after i spoke about it in the chan
<highvoltage> stgraber said that he fixed it... so he did :)
<Lns> ok
<highvoltage> stgraber: could we ask that a new daily build could be triggered so that we can test if it currently breaks? or is it currently an ubuntu-wide problem?
<stgraber> highvoltage: ubuntu-wide
<stgraber> highvoltage: I had to wait until this morning (EDT) before I could install a standard ubuntu desktop
<stgraber> and currently empathy is breaking on upgrade
<highvoltage> stgraber: ouch. well at least that means it gets priority :)
<highvoltage> I have nothing further for technical...
<highvoltage> mgariepy: ooh, except that I just realised that we should mention the edubuntu menu editor in the installer slideshow, I'll add that to the next revision
<mgariepy> ok good ;) thanks.
<stgraber> highvoltage: Is sabayon mentioned ?
<mhall119> yes
<highvoltage> stgraber: it is indeed, it's mentioned in the administration slide
<stgraber> great
<highvoltage> stgraber: that's where I plan to mention the menu editor as well
<stgraber> I only briefly looking at the slideshow a day ago when actually installing edubuntu ;)
<Lns> sabayon has come a very long way, i tested it out yesterday on 10.04 and it works damn well so far
<highvoltage> if there's time I'll probably add one or two more slides, I think it would be nice to have a tux4kids slide as well
<highvoltage> Lns: yeah sbalneav put a lot of energy into it
<Lns> yes he did!
<highvoltage> stgraber: heh, I guess very few people will actually ever look at the slideshow :)
<Lns> highvoltage: while you mention tux4kids, i'm on their list and they're having a lot of discussion regarding GSoC and mentors, contributors..if anyone is interested now would be the time to help those projects out
<stgraber> highvoltage: you'd be surprised. I guess most people installing it for the first time will read it.
<Lns> there's a lot of improvement that could be made especially in the touch typing program. It's a great program, but it could use a lot of work for lessons, progress tracking, you know..school stuff that's needed
<highvoltage> stgraber: cool :)
<highvoltage> Lns: that's been a request pretty much since the first edubuntu release, we should perhaps prioritise it for 10.10 and do a concerted effort to get some educators involved in that
<Lns> that would be awesome
<Lns> linux still needs a quality touch typing program
<Lns> that fits the standards of school requirements
<highvoltage> bencrisford: you added marketing team to the agenda?
<bencrisford> highvoltage: yes :) i did
<highvoltage> I'd like to hear more about it since we don't really have a marketing team atm :)
<bencrisford> highvoltage: so i just say my piece? :)
<highvoltage> bencrisford: yep, it's an open meeting
<bencrisford> okey doke :)
<bencrisford> well, edubuntu doesnt seem to have a marketing team, it has an advocacy team...
<bencrisford> but that seems to have been dead for a long time
<bencrisford> i think that this is something that needs fixing fast
<bencrisford> its not just users that we need to find
<bencrisford> its contributors
<highvoltage> indeed, with the eduntu revival of the last year or so we haven't put any effort into reviving that part yet
<bencrisford> if you goto http://tinyurl.com/EduBugs
<bencrisford> there are over 300 i think
<bencrisford> some of them date back to gutsy or earlier!
<highvoltage> mostly because there are very few people who have time for that currently
<bencrisford> we really need bug triagers and fixers
<Lns> yikes 72 alone for gimp..
<highvoltage> bencrisford: so you're saying that we should do a campaign to gain more triagers and fixers?
<bencrisford> Lns: but that is gimp in ubuntu as well..
<Lns> ah
<bencrisford> highvoltage: yes, in the short term, in the long term marketing in general
<bencrisford> to get users
<highvoltage> Lns: yep, those bugs are in the packages which are common to ubuntu/kubuntu/xubuntu/edubuntu/lubuntu/etc
<bencrisford> on the bug front, i was thinking we could send a message out to the bugs list asking everyone to try and triage x amount of bugs
<highvoltage> bencrisford: I like that you want to focus one one specific part at first
<bencrisford> it would be sorted in no time
<mhall119> has anyone from Edubuntu been interviewed for Ubuntu User of FCM yet?
<bencrisford> highvoltage: well we need contributors in order to do more things.. :P
<highvoltage> bencrisford: we had a bug day in February, I think more people would've participated if we could have built more hype around it
<bencrisford> highvoltage: exactly, im sad i missed that :(
<bencrisford> but i think its a bit worrying when theres bugs in gutsy packages that havent been looked at since they were reported!
<bencrisford> there are nearly 150 pepole on #ubuntu-bugs at this one moment
<highvoltage> bencrisford: perhaps if you have some time, would you be willing to co-host a bug day with sbalneav and also do the spread-the-word work for it?
<bencrisford> of all of them helped triage 2 bugs, then it would be sorted
<bencrisford> highvoltage: sounds good, i have 2 weeks off starting tonight, im away for part of it, but im home for at least a week with nothing to do
<highvoltage> bencrisford: hmm, yes perhaps you could pull #ubuntu-bugs in on our bug day too, we didn't try doing that before
<bencrisford> yeah :)
<mhall119> they are asking for people to lead Open Week sessions, an edubuntu and/or ltsp session would be a good idea
<bencrisford> mhall119: this was another thing i was going to mention :)
<mhall119> and we can probably talk akgraner or pendulum into running an interview with one of the Edubuntu leads
<bencrisford> sounds good
<highvoltage> stgraber: I'm a bit fuzzy on the policy, after the beta2 release the archives will be open for bug fix uploads again right?
<stgraber> until RC freeze yes
<stgraber> you should be able to upload between the 8th and the 15th
<stgraber> then we're frozzen for good
<highvoltage> bencrisford: that then means that we can only do a bug day next week (Tuesday or Wednesday'ish). later than that and we probably wouldn't be able to upload any fixes any more
<mhall119> highvoltage: we could for 10.10
<bencrisford> highvoltage: im not sure im around wednesday
<highvoltage> mhall119: indeed, I'm of course refering to 10.04 specifically
<bencrisford> highvoltage: monday/tuesday-ish sounds better to me
<highvoltage> bencrisford: yep, it would also give little time to announce it
<highvoltage> bencrisford: think about it and let us know tomorrow morning
<bencrisford> monday im not home, but ill have my laptop...
<bencrisford> tuesday i think im home
<highvoltage> bencrisford: a bug day early next week might do wonders giving edubuntu just that last bit of polish before release
<bencrisford> highvoltage: yeah
<highvoltage> bencrisford: "#
<highvoltage> # Joint projects with other teams, ubuntu students perhaps? "
<highvoltage> I think you added that one too?
<bencrisford> yeah
<bencrisford> that was something i was kind of planning when i was around in november
<bencrisford> im not sure its a good idea anymore with the students team
<mhall119> highvoltage: did you see nali's email about cross-pollination?
<bencrisford> seems to be a bit dead, but with other teams it could be productive
<Lns> bencrisford: what do you mean 'joint projects' specifically?
<highvoltage> mhall119: I have a bunch of e-mails marked as "looks interesting" which I plan to read later... and that's one of them :)
<mhall119> highvoltage: it seems relevant to this
<bencrisford> Lns: when i put it down i was thinking of marketing i think
<highvoltage> mhall119: hmm, or at least I thought so, on what list was that?
<bencrisford> having the students team advertising a distro for students seemed a good idea at the time
<mhall119> loco contacts I think
<bencrisford> but like i say, the team seems inactive
<Lns> I totally agree that collaborating and introducing ourselves to related educational projects is a must for our survival and prosperity
<bencrisford> i also used to have contact with the belgian loco, they used a poster i made for spreadubuntu a while back
<Lns> there are tons of school projects we could look into, local for each one of us and national/international
<Lns> I was just thinking this morning if there was something like a "Teachers for Open Source" collective
<highvoltage> Lns: the ideas are always there but when it comes to doing everyone usually dissappears :)
<Lns> we need to present ourselves to the ones who matter and have real influence in education
<Lns> highvoltage: I'm willing to start a group like this...I just need to research how to do it most effectively =)
<mhall119> education is going to be hesitant until there is someone or something "officially" behind edubuntu
<highvoltage> Lns: awesome :)
<Lns> mhall119: catch 22
<bencrisford> highvoltage: im not planning on disappearing :P
<bencrisford> again...
<Lns> haha
<mhall119> Lns: I meant in terms of support
<highvoltage> Lns: well that also ties to some of what bencrisford and mhall119 said earlier so we basically already have a team there :)
<Lns> the more grassroots involvement we have with education, the faster it will catch on
<Lns> highvoltage: the students for ubuntu?
<mhall119> suppose I'm a school admin, and I want to roll out Edubuntu, whom should I contact?
<Lns> mhall119: that's a different idea i think
<highvoltage> Lns: well, you Lns mhall119 and bencrisford to begin with :)
<highvoltage> mhall119: well, I thought that we made it reasonably clear that they wouldn't have to contact anyone if they'd want to roll it out
<mhall119> highvoltage: ad-hoc collections of volunteers aren't reliable
<Lns> we need advocacy and enlightenment to educators, they aren't techies .. before they roll out edubuntu, them and their staffs are going to say "wtf is edubuntu?"
<bencrisford> what are we going to do about the lp advocacy team?  because it looks a bit neglected
<mhall119> highvoltage: they don't have to, but they will want to, because they will have questions
<highvoltage> mhall119: indeed, you have alternate suggestions?
<mhall119> highvoltage: none that I like at the moment
<highvoltage> mhall119: :)
<bencrisford> 31 applied members, applications dating back to 06...
<mhall119> short of corronating someone here as "THE Edubuntu lead"
<Lns> mhall119: well they can call ME for one, my business is installing linux/ltsp/edubuntu networks in schools =)
<Lns> so is stgraber
<mhall119> Lns: but neither of you are the "official" contacts for Edubuntu
<Lns> and can-o-spam in #ltsp among many others
<highvoltage> mhall119: I know, and you're entirely right, but it's kind of hard to solve it on a global scale. even if we do have a single edubuntu contact, it's not going to solve the problem
<mhall119> you're just two guys who do stuff with it, as far as schools are concerned
<Lns> mhall119: sure I am, I'm on the EC
<bencrisford> does there need to be an official contact? if we encouraged people to seek support via irc, they could talk to any developer
<mhall119> Lns: is the EC discussed in any Edubuntu literature aimed at schools?
<Lns> schools want someone they know, preferably someone local, that's trusted in their community.
<stgraber> the Edubuntu release contacts are highvoltage and myself. Official contact for Edubuntu matters is the EC. Though that's mostly for the development side of things.
<Lns> the "official" thing isn't as much of an issue, or hasn't been for me at least.
<highvoltage> mhall119: I understand where you're coming from on this, and I'm with you, but for the sake of taking it through, what would such a school typically contact such a representative of Edubuntu for?
<bencrisford> well, not all edubuntu devs can be trusted in every local community Lns
<mhall119> Lns: I agree, but even still they want to know that someone is piloting the ship
<highvoltage> mhall119: I'd guess that most of them would want some kind of official support or perhaps even some form of real-life out-there meeting
<mhall119> highvoltage: it's not even that they would contact anyone
<Lns> bencrisford: of course, that's where the bits of each community come in.
<mhall119> but they would feel better about deploying if they knew who they should contact if they have a problem
<Lns> mhall119: of course.
<mhall119> if that's an individual, or the EC, I don't think it matters
<bencrisford> i see this as all coming back to needing contributors..  if there was one of us in most national locos, that would make things alot easier
<Lns> you need an expert with it, no matter if they're "official" or not.
<bencrisford> and for support people could go through locos
<mhall119> Lns: no you don't, you just need someone to take up your issue and get your a resolution
<Lns> we need to start from the ground up and build a solid community-based foundation
<highvoltage> well, our canonical^W official contact address is the edubuntu-devel mailing list and for support the edubuntu-users list
<mhall119> does the EC have it's own mailing list?
<Lns> do schools call microsoft when they have problems with windows?
<mhall119> Lns: they can
<Lns> but they don't
<mhall119> but they can, and that makes them feel safer about using Microsoft's products
<highvoltage> mhall119: nope, we've never had a reason to have one
<bencrisford> Lns: no, because msoft would just make things worse...
<Lns> mhall119: i disagree... they feel safe because "everyone uses it"
<mhall119> Lns: that too, yes
<mhall119> but look at the proprietary educations tools they use
<highvoltage> mhall119: but even if we did, what difference would it make? imagine if everyone who ever wanted to install Ubuntu would want to talk to the CC about it first?
<mhall119> more often, nobody else is using it
<Lns> mhall119: you're getting off point :)
<bencrisford> would it be possible, so set up a moderated support team, and when somebody emailed the address, the emails were evenly distributed between members?
<mhall119> highvoltage: individuals don't have to CYA
<mhall119> school admins do
<mhall119> I'm just saying, if we are going to market Edubuntu, it needs to have more behind it than an ad-hoc group of developers
<Lns> mhall119: agreed
<bencrisford> mhall119: which is why we are focusing on contributors first
<highvoltage> mhall119: ok, I see
<mhall119> bencrisford: yes, and I agree with that approach
<Lns> IMHO a solid user/admin community behind it, especially with school involvement, is what we need.
<bencrisford> there is no sense spending so much time on this, when there is a release in under a month, and everyone present here seems to be out entire following :P
<highvoltage> mhall119: similar projects exist without it though, such as k12ltsp for example. I think "need" may be a strong word in that case, but besides that I agree
<bencrisford> we need to focus on contributors leading up to release, we need to focus on marketing after the release, and then go on to QA
<mhall119> highvoltage: maybe it's a strong word, but I don't see much rollout of k12ltsp either
<highvoltage> well, we're almost out of time. is there anything else we /need/ to discuss before taking it over to #edubuntu?
<Lns> mhall119: there's much more out there than you realize
<mhall119> I have one
<mhall119> I started https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/AppTemplate
<mhall119> to create standardized wiki pages for each of Edubuntu's programs
<mhall119> including games and admin tools
<Lns> *applause* :) love that idea mhall119
<mhall119> I'd like to get feedback on the template before I start using to to make actual pages
<mhall119> then I'll probably pre-populate them with info from their respective packages
<mhall119> I had originally intended to do this as part of UGJ, but things came up
<Lns> mhall119: i have a small list of apps, links to project pages and short descriptions at the bottom of http://blog2.logicalnetworking.net/?page_id=269
<mhall119> highvoltage: where's the seed file for edubuntu 10.04?
<Lns> maybe we can use info from that to populate the wiki pages
<mhall119> Lns: probably, are those all in Edubuntu?
<highvoltage> mhall119: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/edubuntu.lucid
<Lns> mhall119: probably not default install, but they're available to install yes
<Lns> err, besides typingmaster
<mhall119> Lns: I'm focusing only on the edubuntu packages for this
<Lns> mhall119: default install packages?
<mhall119> or those in the edubuntu- metapackages
<mhall119> I know people often ask what games edubuntu includes
<mhall119> this way we can have them all on a list on the wiki, with links to more info on each one
<highvoltage> for 10.10 I guess we should also revisit our age groups and categories and perhaps have some new (additional) meta-packages if needed
<Lns> wasn't there an exaustive list on edubuntu.org?
<highvoltage> Lns: not with all the details that mhall119 is after
<mhall119> highvoltage: well I hope to collect age recommendations as part of this
<highvoltage> mhall119: I installed Ubuntu in 2 prison environments before...
<mhall119> um.....ok
<highvoltage> mhall119: and some of the primary school software turned out to be really useful for adults with really low literacy rates
<mhall119> true
<mhall119> age isn't always going to be accurate to an individual
<Lns> jailbuntu?
<highvoltage> mhall119: so sometimes software that looks really suited for kids could be really useful for some kinds of adult basic education as well
<mhall119> my son is 6, but he's intellectually above that
<Lns> highvoltage: of course but we've got to fit our own image of educational based ubuntu
<highvoltage> with you as a father, I can believe that :)
<mhall119> but in that case, I know to look for 8-10 recommendations for him
<mhall119> highvoltage: I wish I were as smart as him at 6
<mhall119> at any rate, I know it won't be accurate, but it will be reliable enough on average to be useful
<Lns> if we could get real world teachers/parents to give input on the programs, that would be most accurate
<highvoltage> mhall119: *nod* just something I thought I'd mention to keep in mind perhaps
<mhall119> Lns: that's why I included a User Comments section
<bencrisford> when different languages are used on tuxtype its effective for practising mfl i found
<bencrisford> its similar to the games we used to play in french at school :P
<highvoltage> we're 8 minutes over, shall we move to #edubuntu?
<mhall119> so someone can say "I know this says it's for kids, but I installed it in a prison and it really worked well for the adults"
<bencrisford> highvoltage: probably should, before we get told off
<highvoltage> bencrisford: heh, doesn't seem like we're running over another meeting at least
<bencrisford> highvoltage: no :P fortunately, but we should probably
<highvoltage> ok, meeting adjourned! Thanks everyone, next weekly meeting is same time and place.
<bencrisford> cant wait :) :P
<Lns> highvoltage: you forgot the *bong*
 * Lns likes hearing the *bong* at the end of meetings
<highvoltage> *bong*
<Lns> haha thx
<bencrisford> :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-04-01
<Claudinux> going to sleep.....night all
<Technoviking> hello all
<TommyBrunn> Hello
<forumsmatthew> greetings!
<jdong> hey everyone :)
<czajkowski> aloha
<forumsmatthew> we are waiting to see if a fourth member of the council will be able to show up so we can have a quorum
<Technoviking> sorry, we are pinging folks as hard as we can
<forumsmatthew> I've made one last attempt. We may have to postpone. We'll give it just a few more minutes.
<forumsmatthew> I apologize everyone. It seems only three of us could make it to the meeting today. We could talk, but not really decide anything, so there isn't much point. We will have to reschedule. The new time/date will appear on the wiki page when it is set. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda
<TommyBrunn> Do you have any idea how long the meeting will be postponed for? A few days, a week or several weeks?
<forumsmatthew> I'm sorry, I don't.
<TommyBrunn> Alright. Guess I'll just have to keep my eyes open then.
<czajkowski> would it be a good idea to possibly disucss items
<Technoviking> TommyBrunn: subscribe to the wiki page will send you an email when something changes automatically
<czajkowski> and if things ned to be voted it , bring it to your lists
<TommyBrunn> Thank you Technoviking, I will do that.
<Technoviking> TommyBrunn: no problem, my apoligizes that we could not discuss your concerns
<TommyBrunn> I guess I'll just have to wait.
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-04-02
 * slangasek waves
<ttx> o/
 * ogasawara waves
 * marjo waves
<ameetp> o/
 * kenvandine waves
<ScottK> o/
<robbiew> o/
<slangasek> urk; sorry, having some kind of gateway instability here folks
<slangasek> hopefully it'll settle to the point I can actually run the meeting...
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:05. The chair is slangasek.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2010-04-02
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2010-04-02
<slangasek> [TOPIC] actions from previous meetings
<MootBot> New Topic:  actions from previous meetings
<slangasek>   * slangasek to shake the branding tree and see what falls out (Kubuntu: done; Edubuntu: ?)
<slangasek>   * marjo to confirm whether there are committments to certify any hardware for 10.04 that's not yet provisioned (DONE - we're ok)
<slangasek>   * slangasek, asac to discuss omap plans for 10.04
<slangasek>   * doko to grep the archive for codecs.open in python code, to find other packages broken by http://bugs.python.org/issue691291
<slangasek>   * ScottK, slangasek to review python sync/merge candidates
<ScottK> (not done)
<slangasek> stgraber: how is the new Edubuntu branding coming along?
<slangasek> indeed :/
<slangasek> asac mentioned on #ubuntu-release that he was off 'til Wednesday for vacation, but has promised me a mail regarding omap (I don't seem to have received it yet)
<slangasek> doko__: did you have a chance to look at the codecs.open issue?
<slangasek> (presumably not around, then :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] QA Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Team
<slangasek> marjo: are we on track?
<marjo> * Hardware testing
<marjo> http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<marjo> Netbooks:
<marjo>    passed:   12 (86%)   failed:    0 ( 0%) untested:  2 (14%)
<marjo> Laptops:
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<marjo>    passed:   37 (97%)   failed:    0 ( 0%)   untested:  1 ( 3%)
<marjo> Servers:
<marjo>    passed:   64 (93%)   failed:    0 ( 0%)   untested:  5 ( 7%)
<marjo> Desktops:
<marjo>    passed:   12 (100%)  failed:    0 (  0%)  untested:  0 (  0%)
<marjo> * Bug:530380: checkbox writes to .cache/checkbox/submission before submission completes
<marjo> The fix has been approved and pushed to the archive yesterday, April 1.
<stgraber> slangasek: still waiting on Canonical to provide the new logo ...
<marjo> slangasek: yes, all QA work items are on track for beta-2
 * rickspencer3 asks designers about new logo
<ScottK> stgraber: I'd imagine you need "E" and "d" too.
<slangasek> fwiw, the checkbox fix is still in the beta freeze queue; I still need to review it today
<stgraber> ScottK: yeah, though in our case Canonical will actually provide the logo as well as the updated font
<slangasek> stgraber: have they been in communication with you lately?
<cr3> slangasek: thanks!
<slangasek> marjo: is the beta release as a whole on-track quality wise?  any warning signs?
<stgraber> slangasek: nope, Iain said he'd ping me as soon as he get it and the "E" and "d" are signed off but haven't heard from Canonical design team since at least a week and I have no clear ETA.
<slangasek> rickspencer3: ok, thanks
<marjo> slangasek: per the daily report, we still need to work on fixing 10 bugs/day from today on
<slangasek> which does seem to be the rate we're sustaining
<slangasek> though I wonder, is that bug count "all bugs targeted to lucid"?
<marjo> the ISO testing bugs still has new bugs open
<marjo> http://people.canonical.com/~marjomercado/isotestingbugs.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~marjomercado/isotestingbugs.html
<marjo> slangasek: yes, that report includes those for lucid only
<slangasek> but it includes low/medium priority bugs too?
<marjo> slangasek: yes
 * slangasek nods
<marjo> slangasek: do you think a daily report is useful?
<slangasek> the one you're sending currently?
<marjo> if so, that's what i plan to do
<marjo> yes
<marjo> otherwise, twice a week may be sufficient?
<slangasek> yes; though I think it would be good to distinguish between high/critical-importance bugs and wishlist/low/medium bugs
<ttx> or maybe weigh them
<marjo> slangasek: ok, will make more distinctions, to help the teams focus
<slangasek> great, thanks
<slangasek> anything else on QA?
<marjo> slangasek: no, thx
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Server Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server Team
<slangasek> marjo: thanks
<slangasek> ttx: hi
<ttx> o/
<ttx> Updated server team status @ https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<ttx> Server Beta2/Milestoned Bugs:
<ttx> bug 292971
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 292971 in libnss-ldap "nscd leaking memory using libnss-ldap" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/292971
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<ttx> This one is hardly beta2-critical, given that we shipped with it for 4 releases now, but still one we would like to fix for beta2
<ttx> The other two are targeted to final:
<slangasek> is that feasible?
<slangasek> or should it be unmilestoned?
<ttx> Yes, that's what we want to do, fix this one before beta2.
<ttx> bug 551544 and bug 546874
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 551544 in puppet "puppet in lucid does not support upstart status " [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/551544
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 546874 in samba "passwd - can't login, change password (pam_winbind pam-auth-update profile)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/546874
<ttx> that last one you know about.
<slangasek> yes
<slangasek> fixing the maintainer script part is easy, but I still have to figure out what's wrong with the actual PAM stack
<ttx> You also listed another one as ours: bug 532733
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 532733 in qemu-kvm "apt/dpkg in qemu-system-arm hangs if a big task is installed" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/532733
<slangasek> I'll try to get that done by beta2 still, anyway
<ttx> it's not clear if qemu-kvm is the right source for the bug, kirkland is working with asac/ogra on this one
 * slangasek nods
<kirkland> ttx: i don't have a lot of confidence that I'm going to solve that one for release (can't tell if the bug is in kvm yet)
<slangasek> it's fairly important to the folks working on arm to get that fixed, but I don't see anything about it that's a beta blocker in particular - feel free to unmilestone
<ttx> kirkland: right. You involved upstream on this IIRC
<ttx> kirkland: hopefully we'll get an idea of where the problem more precisely lies
<ttx> We identified 5 "targets of opportunity" (targeted to lucid but unmilestoned), see report for details
<ttx> On the specs side...
<kirkland> ttx: not yet, as I'd like to show that I can reproduce this bug doing normal disk I/O (outside of apt/dpkg) first
<ttx> kirkland: ok
<ttx> Two High/Critical incomplete specs:
<kirkland> ttx: as upstream will likely not use apt/dpkg to also reproduce/fix the bug
<slangasek> kirkland: could it be related to the recent fsync() additions to dpkg code?
<ttx> server-lucid-uec-testing (63%): Still working on multi-network test automation (not affected by freeze). Other remaining items are about B2 candidate testing
<ttx> server-lucid-daily-vcs (92%) : On track, not affected by freeze
<ttx> Bugs affecting server, in other teams:
<kirkland> slangasek: hrm, possibly
<ttx> bug 548954 was apparently fixed today, we'll look forward the dailies to tset that
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 548954 in upstart "Ubuntu servers should display information during boot by default" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/548954
<ttx> that was our only beta2-critical remaining bug
<slangasek> do you want me to spin an extra daily?
<ttx> slangasek: won't have time to exercise it before the weekend, but someone else might
<ttx> bug 531494 was somehow work-arounded by re-enabling ramdisks in cloud images, so less critical
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 531494 in Ubuntu Lucid "cloud-init job sometimes not running in cloud images without ramdisk" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/531494
<slangasek> plymouth also currently fails entirely without a ramdisk; I'm working on the fix, but - it's good that this isn't blocking you
<ttx> I think it will need close cooperation between the Scott's to come to the root cause
<ttx> That's all from me, questions ?
<slangasek> none here; anyone else?
<ttx> i'm trying to scout buglists to make sure I didn't overlook any critical server issue
<ttx> if you know of one, please ping me and/or target appropriately
<slangasek> oh; you didn't mention server-lucid-eucalyptus-merging-and-packaging, which has one outstanding WI for B2 and I'm pretty sure is 'critical'
<ttx> was completed today
<ttx> well, a few minutes ago
<slangasek> hah
<slangasek> ok
<ttx> last item was libvirt 0.7.7 compat tests
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Mobile Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mobile Team
<slangasek> ttx: thanks
<ttx> and kirkland did them yesterday with jdstrand
<slangasek> oh, mobile; asac sends his on-holiday regrets, and wasn't able to line up a substitute
<kirkland> ttx: we're sticking with 0.7.5 for lucid (unless a miracle happens)
<ttx> yes, that was my understanding
<slangasek> the outstanding specs on mobile are either confirmation / documentation, or meta-WIs
<slangasek> so nothing to worry about there
<slangasek> those darn thumb2 porting bugs are still open, though
<slangasek> NCommander: is anyone on your team responsible for these remaining thumb2 porting bugs? they've been floating for several milestones now
<slangasek> anyone else have concerns re: Mobile?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Kernel Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Team
<slangasek> ogasawara: hi
<ogasawara> Overall Kernel Team status is summarised at the first URL below, including the items called out in the agenda.  The burndown chart for Beta-2 is at the third URL, and our burndown chart is at the fourth:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid#Milestone%20ubuntu-10.04-beta-2
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-10.04-beta-2.html
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid#Milestone%20ubuntu-10.04-beta-2
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-10.04-beta-2.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<ogasawara> On the items pulled out on the agenda, our blueprint status is as follows:
<ogasawara>   * AppArmor has had a number of fixes applied for beta-2 with the upstream work continuing strongly though it is not a release blocker.
<ogasawara>   * On the configuration review the primary task remaining is the configuration report which is expected to go out before the milestone.
<ogasawara> Of the bugs pulled out on the agenda, several should be fixed by the uploaded kernels and await testing, the rest have been retargeted.  We've posted a summary for each on our release status page, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid .
<ogasawara> We have postponed the ureadahead optimisation work as the userspace side is not going to make it.  The kernels for the freeze are now all built and in the archive, currently we do not expect to be updating them before beta-2.
<ogasawara> As noted in the agenda, a lot of bugs do seem to get milestoned just before the freeze or indeed after it without regard to the time it takes to prepare, test, upload and build the kernel.  Those which have not made it we will retarget next week.
<ogasawara> <done> aside from questions.
<slangasek> I pinged smb and apw early this morning about bug #528155, which is a packaging-only change; I suppose they're both off today, so that's missed the milestone?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 528155 in linux "needs a breaks: clause for lvm2 versions in hardy" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/528155
<slangasek> well; apw was around enough to assign it to himself, I guess, but no new upload today regardless :)
<ogasawara> slangasek: unfortunately yes, that's slipped.  and yes, apw and smb are on holiday.
<slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to document bug #528155 for beta2 errata
<MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to document bug #528155 for beta2 errata
<slangasek> there's a linux-mvl-dove bug still targeted to beta-2 - are we expecting another upload of that kernel before beta, or was that source package overlooked in the triaginG?
<ogasawara> slangasek: I don't expect any uploads before beta.  I'll take a look as I didn't think we overloooked the arm packages.
<slangasek> ok, thanks
<ogasawara> slangasek: ah, but 548565.  I think the fix was uploaded already.  I'll double check the git tree to make sure and fix up the bug status.
<ogasawara> s/but/bug/
<slangasek> ogasawara: great, thanks
<slangasek> any other kernel concerns for beta2?
<ogasawara> none from our side
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Desktop Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Team
<slangasek> ogasawara: thanks
<kenvandine> hello
<slangasek> rickspencer3: did pitti punt to you today for desktop?
<slangasek> ah, kenvandine
<slangasek> hello
<kenvandine> :)
<rickspencer3> he punted to kenvandine ;)
 * rickspencer3 lurks
<kenvandine> lots of RC bugs fixed
<kenvandine> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<kenvandine> for current status
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<kenvandine> whoops, thx
<slangasek> not your fault, the bot is criminally insecure ;)
<ScottK> The Kubuntu section of that's out of date, I'll report on Kubuntu once kenvandine is done
<kenvandine> ScottK, thx
<kenvandine> there is a desktopcouch bug listed as fix available there
<kenvandine> we think it is fixed, but awaiting confirmation
<slangasek> bug #540177> that's actually bounced back open since pitti updated the report, there was one missing bit I didn't notice until I went to finish the plymouth integration
<kenvandine> there is a bunch of related bugs that we think are all fixed with this
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 540177 in kdebase-workspace "KDM needs plymouth transition patch" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/540177
 * ScottK is waiting for nixternal to appear to get him to fix that.
<slangasek> kenvandine: 530541> I don't see any call for feedback in the master bug?
<kenvandine> slangasek, we will today
<slangasek> there was one other bug I put on desktop's plate, bug #357673 - it's marked as 'fix released' in the kernel, but there's a desktop component that also needs to be fixed... I just am not sure yet which component it is
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 357673 in linux "No notification when sliding audio volume, muting volume on ThinkPad X23, X24, X31, X32, X41, X60, T22, T40, T42, T60, R50e, R51, R52" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/357673
<kenvandine> one very concerning issue we have is apps using the keyring
<slangasek> we have a kernel in lucid that exports the mixer needed for notification; but we need something on the desktop to monitor than mixer and generate the OSD
<rickspencer3> slangasek, what package would that be on?
<slangasek> that's what I don't know
<rickspencer3> I'll assign it to my team
<rickspencer3> ok, I'll make one up ;)
<kenvandine> yeah, i am trying to figure that out
 * rickspencer3 handles bug #357673
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 357673 in linux "No notification when sliding audio volume, muting volume on ThinkPad X23, X24, X31, X32, X41, X60, T22, T40, T42, T60, R50e, R51, R52" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/357673
<slangasek> [ACTION] rickspencer3 to figure out what package needs changed for bug #357673
<MootBot> ACTION received:  rickspencer3 to figure out what package needs changed for bug #357673
<kenvandine> thx rickspencer3
<slangasek> kenvandine: what's the concern with keyrings?
<rickspencer3> "figure out" may be a bit strong ;)
<kenvandine> some applications that use the keyring, can peg the CPU
<kenvandine> currently affecting ubuntuone-client, desktopcouch, gwibber and gvfs
<kenvandine> that we know of
<kenvandine> there is a fix now in libgnome-keyring0 that fixes gvfs and maybe desktopcouch
<kenvandine> there is a work around in ubuntuone-client that is waiting approval in the upload queue
<kenvandine> and we think we have just now gotten a work around in gwibber
<slangasek> ok, I'll be sure to look at that today
<kenvandine> thx
<slangasek> is there a bug number for these issues?
<kenvandine> bug 554005
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 554005 in libgnome-keyring "accessing keyring from python threads sometimes causes 100% CPU utilization" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/554005
<slangasek> ok
<kenvandine> that is all i have
<slangasek> ScottK: Kubuntu?
<ScottK> As planned, uploaded KDE 4.4.2 on Tuesday, due to heavy buildd load, going through binary New, and a few packaging issues it took a long time to get built, but is complete on all non-ports archs
<ScottK> It looks like we are getting close on smooth transition for Plymouth.  It will require another kdebase-workspace upload - would still like to get this for beta 2
<ScottK> Artwork issues are resolved, but exactly how some of the new branding gets used will likely need some post beta2 tweaking
<ScottK> We got a number of patches from upstream that really moved Kubuntu Netbook Remix usability forward.
<ScottK> It is likely there are still some installer issues that need to be worked out, not sure if they'll be for beta 2 or not
<ScottK> Both the likely victims for installer work aren't online right now, so I can't check their plans.
<ScottK> That's it.  Questions?
<slangasek> smooth transition for plymouth> *very* close; I've made the upstart job tweaks locally on a test box, and it's very nice :)
<ScottK> slangasek: Great.  You wouldn't want to just upload that would you?
<slangasek> I can, if you want to queue accept it
<ScottK> Certainly.
<slangasek> anything else to discuss on desktop?
<rickspencer3> slangasek, sort of
<rickspencer3> a question for you
<rickspencer3> quickly
<slangasek> shoot
<rickspencer3> there were some dx/design and ols uploads yesterday that seemed to rather break certain freezes
<rickspencer3> are those going through?
<rickspencer3> I'm especially interested in the new theme upload
<slangasek> I asked kwwii to notify the ubuntu-doc team about these freeze exceptions, since this upends any work they've done to date on screenshots for the documentation
<rickspencer3> so blocking on kwwii ... ok, thanks slangasek
<rickspencer3> that's all I needed to know
<slangasek> I haven't checked if he's done so; if not, I'll contact them today and get them through the queue, it seems there's little choice but to push them through despite the lateness given that the button order is kind of a fundamental thing to have the way we want it
<rickspencer3> slangasek, for Lucid yes, but perhaps we can figure out how to be a bit more disciplined in 10.10
<rickspencer3> :)
<slangasek> <cough>notbloodylikely</cough>
<slangasek> ;)
 * rickspencer3 hangs head
<kenvandine> :)
<slangasek> rickspencer3: just tell Mark his deadline is a month earlier than the real deadline? ;)
<slangasek> anyway
<slangasek> nothing else for desktop, right?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] DX Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  DX Team
<slangasek> rickspencer3, ScottK: thanks
<slangasek> anyone around for DX?
<slangasek> call-out items are both documentation WIs
<slangasek> so nothing to fret over there
<kenvandine> humm... no dbarth
<slangasek> they've earned their day off, all their work is in on time ;)
<kenvandine> slangasek, if you have anything specific i i can try to answer :)
<slangasek> nothing from me
<slangasek> anyone else have questions/concerns on DX?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Foundations Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations Team
<slangasek> no cjwatson today, but he's sent me his notes
<slangasek> foundations-lucid-non-applications-in-software-center> One last piece of testing in progress; everything else is done or postponed
<slangasek> foundations-lucid-support-timeframe-information> Awaiting LP merge to sort out server support lifetimes (which has been discussed with the LP folks, should be in progress).
<slangasek> foundations-lucid-laptop-mode-tools-integration> As mentioned last week, the remaining piece here is preparing for M, not for Lucid, so we don't need to continue tracking it although it's in progress.
<slangasek> foundations-lucid-supportable-binaries> in progress, should be getting the removals done today
<slangasek> * Bug:368060: Map of Kashmir when selecting the timezone is incorrect
<slangasek> kwwii is processing latest adjustments following bug comments, as well as recent timezone changes.  I've deferred this from beta-2 to final, as the scope of the changes shouldn't be intrusive.
<slangasek> bug #529366, bug #527972: I haven't talked with Evan about these two and am not sure about current status.  They may need to be deferred to final.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 529366 in usb-creator "Regression: usb-creator-gtk fails to set the boot flag on the partition and exits." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/529366
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 527972 in usb-creator "[Lucid Alpha 3] usb-creator.exe does not accept ISO selection on Windows XP system" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/527972
<slangasek> bug #539827: We believe this is fixed following recent robustness work, but are awaiting confirmation from reporters.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 539827 in ubiquity "ubiquity crashes after clicking "try ubuntu"" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/539827
<slangasek> bug #552542: Recent milestoning, and I'm not sure what's happening here.  May need to be pushed to final.  Looks like apt is just a placeholder package for some server-side script here.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 552542 in apt "DDTP translation strings breakage in Japanese(ja)/Simplified Chinese(zh_CN)/ Traditional Chinese(zh_TW)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/552542
<slangasek> bug #548954: Fixed, aside from the release-notes task which we can do next week.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 548954 in upstart "Ubuntu servers should display information during boot by default" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/548954
<slangasek> that's it
<slangasek> any questions?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Security Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security Team
<slangasek> jdstrand: hello
<jdstrand> o/
<jdstrand> as always: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<jdstrand> in terms of bugs, there bug #528274 still
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 528274 in ubuntuone-client "syncdaemon should have AppArmor profile" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/528274
<jdstrand> the uone guys are still getting the packaging together, but the profile will be disabled by default
<slangasek> ok
<jdstrand> another item worth discussing is security-lucid-libvirt-apparmor-devel
<jdstrand> this is related to bug #553737
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 553737 in libvirt "[lucid] merge libvirt to 0.7.7" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/553737
<slangasek> from earlier, it sounds like the server team decision is to defer 0.7.7?
<jdstrand> the bp is related to it in that it can't be completed without the merge
<jdstrand> slangasek: it is still open-- will discuss in a moment
<jdstrand> however, I think I can get 1, maybe to items from the bp into 0.7.5
<slangasek> ok
<jdstrand> that said, the merge is being discussing in the bug and on ubuntu-server mailing list
<slangasek> btw - you know you can link bugs from blueprints and they'll be tracked as work items, instead of embedding bug numbers in the whiteboard?
<jdstrand> kirkland and I spent yesterday testing euca with 0.7.7 and found that upstream's changing of scsi hot add, while correct, breaks EBS
<slangasek> heh
<jdstrand> (the guest is suppose to rescan the bus to notice the disk-- past libvirt did a pci hot add of a controller, one per disk-- wrong but it magically appeared in the guest)
<jdstrand> upstream qemu has reiterated time and again that virtio should be used over scsi
<jdstrand> so, between all the bug fixes, maintainability, data integrity/stability improvements of virtio vs scsi and performance, testing of euca with virtio hot add instead of scsi is being reviewd
<jdstrand> I defer completely to the server team on whether to merge 0.7.7
<zul> gah?
<jdstrand> they are testing early next week. I have the merge prepared and can uplad quickly if needed, otherwise will defer than work to 'm'
<jdstrand> zul: not you-- kirkland and smoser ;)
<jdstrand> if I merge my bp is conveniently completed as well
<jdstrand> if not, I'll need to try to backport as best I can to 0.7.5 (internal interfaces changes significantly for the better for the apparmor driver to handle the bp items in 0.7.7)
<jdstrand> I am moving the discussion of the merge parts into the bug, so it is easier for everyone to see
<slangasek> ok - sounds like we'll want to revisit that after beta2
<slangasek> I guess it should be resolved one way or the other by next week?
<kirkland> jdstrand: slangasek: I'm recommending sticking with 0.7.5 for Lucid
<jdstrand> slangasek: the merge yes, the (if needed) 0.7.5 backporting, I hope so
<kirkland> jdstrand: slangasek: email to that effect (recommendation on 0.7.5) send to ubuntu-server@ right now ...
<jdstrand> kirkland: I thought you and smoser said a few minutes ago that reviewing virtio is planned for monday and the decision would be made then?
<jdstrand> (in #ubuntu-server)
<kirkland> jdstrand: upon further consideration, i really don't want to introduce that diff from upstream Eucalyptus in our LTS
<kirkland> jdstrand: we have agreement with Dan to move toward virtio in Maverick
<jdstrand> fair enough, it was my recommendation as well.
<kirkland> jdstrand: LTS+1 seems to be the place to do it
<kirkland> jdstrand: thanks
<jdstrand> kirkland: so is it now decided?
<kirkland> jdstrand: that's my recommendation, and yours.  I think it is decided.
<kirkland> jdstrand: so we should move on stablizing and backporting to 0.7.5
<jdstrand> ok, I'll update all the bugs then and get to backporting
<jdstrand> slangasek: so it sounds like the merge item is resolved. as to the bp work, we'll see how it goes. I'll have more info next week
<slangasek> yay, sorted
<slangasek> anything else?
<jdstrand> no
<slangasek> great - thanks
<slangasek> [TOPIC] MOTU
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU
<ScottK> Hello.
<slangasek> ScottK: hi again
<ScottK> We got a large pile of Ruby updates done yesterday, so that's good.
<ScottK> One concern I have is evolution-mapi.
<ScottK> It currenlty build-depends on samba4, which is on the unsupportable binaries removal list.
<slangasek> ah
<ScottK> While it's Universe, I suspect that's one we would rather not release without
<ScottK> I'm still sorting through options.
<ScottK> The "update everything to the latest" would have caused a Heimdal transition, so I abandoned that.
<slangasek> I know the samba4 build-dep is non-negotiable for that one; are you looking into getting samba4 to build again, then?
<ScottK> Yes
<ScottK> My current line of inquiry is samba4 from Unstable and downgrade ldb.
<slangasek> you might check if jelmer can help with this
<ScottK> If it works, it's reasonably self contained (ldb has few reverse-build-depends)
<ScottK> I will if I get stuck.
<slangasek> ok - good luck :)
<ScottK> Losing samba4 and openchange would also really suck, so ....
<ScottK> That's the only new concern I'm aware of.
<slangasek> shall I go ahead with removing the samba4 binaries anyway, in the meantime, or do you want me to whitelist those?
<ScottK> NBS is not looking too bad (I was working it when I ran across this)
<ScottK> slangasek: I'd say whitelist them.  It'll save a New later.
 * slangasek nods
<ScottK> One way or another we need to get this one fixed.
<slangasek> ack
<ScottK> That's all I have
<slangasek> anyone else have questions on MOTU?
<slangasek> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:28.
<slangasek> thanks, all!
<marjo> slangasek: thx!
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-04-04
<Annaa> http://tinypic.zapto.org/2kn4m8.png?t=1270382500 do my breasts look to big?
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-03-28
<hyperair> sb levelclear -level clientcrap,crap,joins,parts,quits,nicks,clientnotice
<nigelb> hyperair: did you forget a / ;)
<hyperair> nigelb: yeah i did =((
<hyperair> nigelb: i did /foreach window, so every channel got it >_<
<skaet> reminder SRU/LTS meeting will start in 1/2 hour.
 * marjo waves to skaet
<marjo> hi pedro_
<pedro_> hola hola
<hggdh> oi oi
<sconklin> \o/
<skaet> hi all
<skaet> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is skaet.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<skaet> SRU/LTS bi-weekly synch meeting.
<skaet> Reminder, please follow the convention  of using ".." on a separate line when you've finished typing.    Also, If someone wants to comment on the last point, please "o/", so we know to wait.
<skaet> .
<skaet> [TOPIC] End of Life - Karmic, Hardy-Desktop
<skaet> Just a reminder that April 2011 will see end of life of Karmic Koala (9.10), and Hardy Heron (8.04) Desktop.
<skaet> Note will be going out this week, for the one month warning.
<skaet> .
<skaet> Dapper Drake (6.06) Server will end of life in June 2011.
<MootBot> New Topic:  End of Life - Karmic, Hardy-Desktop
<skaet> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases
<skaet> .
<skaet> Any concerns or issues to flag with the approaching EOL?
<skaet> ..
<skaet> [TOPIC] Kernel SRU status - sconklin, bjf
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel SRU status - sconklin, bjf
<sconklin> In order to sync the kernel cadence schedule back up
<sconklin> with the master interlock schedule, I've proposed
<sconklin> that we take the kernels which have been in
<sconklin> |
<sconklin> The end result of this is that any changes to kernels which were
<sconklin> approved after week before last will not show up in -proposed until April 29th
<sconklin> ..
<sconklin> did that all make it?
<bjf> no
<ara> no :(
<marjo> sconklin: no
<sconklin> ok, here goes again
<sconklin> In order to sync the kernel cadence schedule back up
<sconklin> with the master interlock schedule, I've proposed
<sconklin> that we take the kernels which have been in
<sconklin> -proposed for a week and just treat them as
<sconklin> if they were uploaded last Friday.
<sconklin> |
<sconklin> This is effectively just putting the kernel cadence on hold for a week.
<sconklin> |
<sconklin> The end result of this is that any changes to kernels which were
<sconklin> approved after week before last will not show up in -proposed until April 29th
<sconklin> (five weeks from now), and will not be released until May 19th (almost
<sconklin> eight weeks from now).
<sconklin> ..
<ara> o/
<skaet> go ara
<ara> I agree with the resync
<ara> but I would like to keep the Maverick cadence if possible
<ara> there are a lot of fixes the the HWE team needs to release
<ara> and 8 weeks is too long time for them to wait
<ara> so my proposal would be
<sconklin> o/
<ara> * Resync with QA schedule. This is, keeping this kernel two more weeks
<ara> in -proposed, so QA can test it next week.
<ara> * Keep the cadence for Maverick (uploading new ones April 8th, April 22nd)
<ara> * Start again with the 2 week cadence after UDS (uploading kernels for
<ara> all the releases on May 20th)
<ara> ..
<skaet> sconklin go
<marjo> ara: that would work well for QA, allows us to concentrate on beta-1 this week
<skaet> marjo,  what would be one with the April 8th kernels?   does the QA team have bandwidth to test them along with the final Natty testing?
<sconklin> ara, that's fine with the stable kernel team. I think we can meet that, and it would serve some needs that are pretty critical. In general if we're going to split out some series for a different schedule, I;d like to have a good display of what those schedules are, but that's a different problem
<bjf> o/
<skaet> bjf, let ara respond and then you go.
<ara> skaet, kernels for April 8th and 22nd would only be for Maverick
<ara> skaet, so, if QA could test those, that would help a lot the HWE team
<sconklin> .. (forgot)
<ara> ..
<bjf> does that mean the current cycle started last Thursday ? it's kind of confusing to start cycles mid week.
<bjf> ..
<marjo> skaet, ara: the problem w/ kernels for April 8 is conflict w/ testing for beta-2 week of April 11
<skaet> ara, yes,   April 22 should probably work out ok  (QA testing first week of May),  but I'm a bit concerned about April 8th proposal.
<skaet> heh
<ara> marjo, I understand, but if they uploda the kernel on Friday, you guys have Friday, Monday and Tuesday for Maverick kernel
<marjo> and week of april 25 is final release testing
<ara> marjo, it is very unlikely that the Beta testing start before Tuesday
<marjo> ara: sure, very risky imho
<skaet> ara,  uploaded kernels are tested by week after by QA  (validation week first)
 * JackyAlcine will be right back.
<ara> skaet, sorry?
<skaet> s/validation/verification
 * skaet sorry
<ara> skaet, then it is perfect, it is the week in between :)
<skaet> ara,  not quite,  we've got holidays that week, and last updates.
<ara> skaet, but, why don't we try?
<ara> skaet, the only thing that can go wrong is that finally we don't have time for the SRU, and it does not get uploaded (as per the kernel team policy)
<bjf> ara, +1
<skaet> ara,  I'm just worrying about the QA team's bandwidth.
<skaet> for the month of april.
<marjo> skaet: thx; see above comments
<skaet> we'll be doing one cycle already this month,  and then one in early may.
<skaet> what is the pressure for the fixes to motivate the risk to Natty?
<skaet> ara,  vanhoof, ^^  ?
<marjo> skaet: i have the same question; posed to vanhoof
<sconklin> o/
<sconklin> (when this topic has closed)
<skaet> ..
<marjo> ,,
<marjo> ..
<ara> ..
 * skaet looking around for comments from vanhoof?
<ara> skaet, I think vanhoof is on swap day today
<ara> :(
<skaet> ahh, ok,  we'll stop waiting then.
<skaet> sconklin go, while I try to summarize where we are with the interlock.
<sconklin> Brad's question went unanswered - Why do schedules start mid-week? It would work much better for us if uploads to -proposed were on Monday and not Friday
<sconklin> I meant Thursday
<sconklin> Monday not Thursday
<skaet> sconklin,  pattern was followed for interlock with development release schedules
<skaet> however,  the reason for indicating the -proposed (date)
<skaet> was to clarify when things were available
<skaet> similarily with -update(date) which doesn't happen on thursdayse either.
<skaet> interlock, is because testing happens with other teams work on that schedule.
<skaet> we can certainly revisit this, and resetting expectations at UDS.
<skaet> key is that we have to look at it from the overall viewpoint to keep things sane for the teams that have to work between stable, and development.
<sconklin> ok, not trying to change anything today but let's open a discussion among the teams about it
<sconklin> ..
<skaet> ok.
<skaet> moving on then since I was busy typing ;)  will summarize at the end.
<skaet> [TOPIC] QA status - marjo
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA status - marjo
<marjo> hi folks
<marjo> Dapper completed on March 21. No regressions. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/KernelSRU-dapper-2.6.15-57.94
<marjo> Hardy completed on March 25. No regressions. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/KernelSRU-hardy-2.6.24-29.88
<marjo> New LUB, LBM and LRM installed correctly too.
<marjo> skaet: given the previous discussion, are you still interested in possible test plans for this week, or not?
<skaet> marjo,  am interested in test plans for next week.
<marjo> it's getting late on a monday...
<marjo> ah ok
 * skaet notes the kernel available should be in verification this week, testing next
<marjo> so, next week (week of April 4), the QA team is available for testing Lucid and/or Maverick kernels
<marjo> ..
<skaet> thanks marjo.
<skaet> any question?
<skaet> [TOPIC] HW certification - ara
<MootBot> New Topic:  HW certification - ara
<ara> We are waiting for the verification phase to finish to start testing
<ara> sconklin, when are you guys expecting the patches to be verified?
<ara> how is the verification going?
<ara> ..
<sconklin> one sec
<sconklin> it looks like we have a couple of bugs left to be verified for lucid and maverick, but if we're resetting the schedule so that verification effectively started Friday, then we should be able to easily get those
<sconklin> I expect in the next day or so if I start harassing people
<sconklin> ..
<ara> sconklin, sounds good, let us know when that happens, please
<ara> ..
<sconklin> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/reports/sru-report.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/reports/sru-report.html
<sconklin> latest status is always here
<sconklin> ..
<skaet> sconklin,  let me summarize to make sure I'm understanding...
<skaet> you'll fiinish off the verifications in next day or two,  and then send email to the list.
<skaet> at that time QA and HW cert (as their other schedules permit)  can start.
<skaet> with starting no later than this Friday.
<skaet> sconklin, ara, marjo - does that match your understanding too?
<ara> yes
<sconklin> Yes, that's the way I read the Nattyinterlock schedule, and that's what we're targeting.
<marjo> skaet: why, "no later than this Friday"?
<marjo> skaet: usually, QA testing starts on Mondays
<skaet> marjo,  beta-1 will be out, and code will be ready.
<marjo> skaet: ack
<skaet> thanks marjo.
<sconklin> ..
<skaet> any other questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC] general SRU status - pitti
<MootBot> New Topic:  general SRU status - pitti
<pitti> still need to schedule a training session with SpammapS
<pitti> last time we had one the queues were empty, and then the beta-1 rush came in the way
<pitti> there is a high-urgency bind9 update which we need to rush through, for bug 651875
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 651875 in bind9 (Ubuntu Lucid) "Bind 9.7.0-P1 validation errors" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/651875
<pitti> (Daviey is on it now)
<pitti> otherwise, business as usual
<pitti> ..
<skaet> thanks pitti
<skaet> any one have questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC] OEM priorities
<MootBot> New Topic:  OEM priorities
<skaet> any one around to represent OEM since vanhoof is out?   smagoun?
<smagoun> skaet: I'm here
<skaet> any issues to flag, and priorities we need to be aware of?
<smagoun> skaet: I confess I've not been following the meeting though - is this specifically OEM priorities for Natty?
<skaet> smagoun,  for maverick, lucid, and other stable releases
<skaet> (everything except natty ;) )
<smagoun> skaet: The SRU cycle has been preempted by 11.04 testing, which has caused a bit of fuss in OEM but we've worked around it.
<smagoun> skaet: We have a couple of bugs in the -proposed kernel, we do want them to see the light of day eventually ;)
<skaet> smagoun,  the fixes in proposed will be going through in week after this one.
<smagoun> skaet: I think the (natural) tension of having 1 team test new development (11.04) and maintenance needs to be addressed organizationally, which makes it a good topic for the UDS timeframe
<skaet> smagoun,  agreed
<smagoun> skaet: Going through, as in released to -updates?
<skaet> smagoun,  per the interlock, that's targeted for 4/7.
<skaet> after that next window for fixes to go to updates is end of first week of may.
<skaet> all changes for that one will need to be in -proposed by 4/22.
<smagoun> skaet: ok, thanks. A couple people around here interpreted bjf's mail as there being nothing new into -updates from now until May. Glad to hear that's not the case.
<skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyReleaseInterlock
<smagoun> ..
<skaet> thanks smagoun
<skaet> any other questions?
<smagoun> not right now, thanks
<skaet> I meant anyone else have questions for you ;)   will move on though since I don't see any hands
<skaet> [TOPIC] Support priorities - martins
<MootBot> New Topic:  Support priorities - martins
 * skaet not seeing martins in the channels though today.
<skaet> anyone have concerns from support?  representing martin?
<skaet> [TOPIC] New business, last chance for general questions? - all
<MootBot> New Topic:  New business, last chance for general questions? - all
<skaet> does anyone want me to summarize what the plan is for the next month,  or is it pretty clear now from the discussions?
<ara> summary! summary! go skaet, go!
<skaet> :)
<skaet> kernel  (maverick, lucid) -> proposed  3/25
<skaet> verification in progress this week
<skaet> hw cert/qa   - 4/1-4/7
<skaet> kernel (maveric, lucid) -> update 4/7
<skaet> kernel ( maverick, lucid?)-> proposed 4/22
<skaet> verification 4/25-4/29
<skaet> hw cert/qa - 4/29 - 5/5
<skaet> kernel (maverick, lucid? ) to update 5/5
<skaet> after that we're at UDS, and revisit the cycle for the rest of Oneiric.
<marjo> skaet: ack
<ara> sounds good to me
<skaet> sconklin, bjf - ok?
<sconklin> reading
<sconklin> yes, I think that matches everything that we talked about earlier, and I'm happy to see the possibility that Lucid will get through also
<sconklin> ..
<skaet> ok,  thanks all.   I think we've got this sorted then.
<skaet> good meeting.
<marjo> skaet: thx
<skaet> next meeting is 4/11.
<skaet> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:56.
<skaet> thanks marjo, ara, bjf, sconklin, pitti, smagoun
<sconklin> Thanks skaet!
<ara> thanks skaet!
<pitti> thanks all
<mdeslaur> hello
<jdstrand> hi
<jdstrand> let's get started
 * sbeattie waves
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:07. The chair is jdstrand.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Review of any previous action items
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review of any previous action items
<jdstrand> sbeattie uploaded apparmor 2.6.1. great work sbeattie, thanks!
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks for sponsoring!
<jdstrand> I (finally) got arround to looking at blackhat/defcon registration, and that is underway now
<jdstrand> sbeattie: sure thing :)
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> so, last week I didn't get to a bunch of stuff I thought I would, and this week is a short week for me
<jdstrand> I will be off friday and then next monday and tuesday
<jdstrand> I am on triage this week
<jdstrand> I hope to finish testing the openldap and libvirt updates
<jdstrand> and I expect some archive admin work for beta
<jdstrand> I'll try to get to the other stuff I said I'd do last week as I have time
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I am currently testing packages for a bunch of security updates I've prepared last week
<mdeslaur> I'll be publishing them this week if all goes well
<mdeslaur> beyond that, I'll go down the list
<mdeslaur> oh, and if this is beta week, I'll do some iso testing also
<mdeslaur> that's it from me.
<mdeslaur> -> sbeattie
<sbeattie> I was on community last week, sponsored a couple of packages (dtc, loggerhead)
<sbeattie> I'm in the happy place this week, so I'm looking for updates to pick up (was thinking postfix)
<sbeattie> I think that's all for me.
<sbeattie> Oh, yeah, iso testing.
 * sbeattie has one system left to upgrade to natty as well.
 * sbeattie -> micahg
<micahg> so, as jdstrand added to the wiki, I'm cleaning up after the comodo mess
<micahg> nss, qt4-x11, ca-certificates (maybe)
<micahg> there's a chromium update, but we're blocked on an upstream regression
<micahg> and I have ISO testing
<jdstrand> micahg: is there a workaround for that? ie, can we just fallback to the previous behavior?
<micahg> jdstrand: well, there's a workaround, but it's flaky IMHO
<micahg> was going to discuss with you further after the meeting
<jdstrand> micahg: right, --detect=auto or something. I meant something where we can just have the old upstream behavior
<jdstrand> s/upstream//
<micahg> jdstrand: well, I have to see exactly what the old behavior was to answer that :)
<jdstrand> micahg: ok. as you know, fta can probably help there. I don't think we can publish chromium in good conscience with that regression
<micahg> so, possibly, fta mentioned possibly working around it
<jdstrand> micahg: alternatively, I wonder if we can snag fta's previous update for the comodo fixes and push that into the archive
<jdstrand> micahg: then wait for upstream to fix the regressino
<jdstrand> (assuming there isn't a good way to deal with the current version that has the additional security fixes)
<micahg> I'll look into that
<jdstrand> ok
<jdstrand> micahg: did you have anything else?
<micahg> no, I think that's it for me
<jdstrand> thanks
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Looks like self-evaluations are done. I need to do my part now (I have a couple weeks)
<jdstrand> all work items tied to natty's release are completed. Great job everyone! :)
<jdstrand> that's all I have
<jdstrand> does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<micahg> o/
<jdstrand> micahg: go ahead
<micahg> when does the review for the testing libraries (QRT) start? next week?
<jdstrand> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseCycle#Regression%20Testing
<micahg> yep, ok :)
<jdstrand> ^ that says kernel and glibc should be happening now
<jdstrand> the rest fall port-beta
<jdstrand> s/port/post/
<jdstrand> kees and/or sbeattie have traditionally done the kernel/glibc ones
<jdstrand> and I'm pretty sure they have been done all the way along
<jdstrand> any other questions?
<jdstrand> ok. thanks everyone!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:28.
<micahg> thanks jdstrand
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
<jdstrand> sure! :)
<SpamapS> any chance DMB will get quorum today?
<Laney> I am partially here
 * stgraber too
<stgraber> just got out of a meeting and have quite a lot of stuff to do now but will follow the meeting for votes and stuff
<stgraber> that's if we manage to get quorum
 * bdrung_ is here, but very tired.
<SpamapS> bdrung_: as long as you're not cranky.. thats ok. ;)
<stgraber> maco, cody-somerville, persia, geser: ping
<Laney> :)
<bdrung_> SpamapS: not cranky, just slow and unemotional
<cody-somerville> Hi.
<ScottK> I would propose not approving SpamapS so we still get to make him do useful stuff in exchange for sponsorship.
<ScottK> ;-)
<Laney> :-)
<Laney> who wants to chair?
<cody-somerville> Wow. 8 applications? Geez. I dunno if we'll get through them all.
<Laney> I am on my phone and in a pub so no good.
 * geser waves
<SpamapS> please do not pay attention to scottk he is a master extortionist ;)
<geser> ScottK: will SpamapS do useless stuff if he gets upload rights?
<ScottK> extorionist/efficient distorbutor of necessary work.
<SpamapS> ScottK: all a matter of perspective. :)
<ScottK> geser: No, but I'll lose leverage to get him to work on my stuff.
<SpamapS> geser: I will occasionally still play Angry Birds if I have upload rights.. ;)
<hrw> hi
<Laney> can we get started?
<cyphermox> hrw, hey
 * cody-somerville volunteers to chair.
 * hrw just arrived at home - 21:07 here
<Laney> ty
<cody-somerville> Do we have quorum?
<stgraber> yep
<Laney> yes
<cody-somerville> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 14:07. The chair is cody-somerville.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<cody-somerville> [TOPIC] Review of previous action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review of previous action items
<cody-somerville> * Emmet Hikory to organise the selection process for DMB renewal
<Laney> done
<cody-somerville> Ack.
<cody-somerville> [TOPIC] Administrative Matters
<MootBot> New Topic:  Administrative Matters
<cody-somerville> [TOPIC] Administrative Matters: Review progress of probationary period of Marco Rodrigues
<geser> is the mailing lists admin issue now resolved?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Administrative Matters: Review progress of probationary period of Marco Rodrigues
<cody-somerville> So, I've unfortunately dropped the ball on this. It had been my intention to have already sent an e-mail report out weeks ago.
<Laney> geser: mostly, I think someone from the tb sould sort out the dmb admin soon
<Laney> mailed today.
<cody-somerville> I still intend to send an e-mail. To summarize however, I'm unsure if the probation period has been entirely effective.
<cody-somerville> Though there were a few occasions early on where Marco did not follow the agreement by participating in discussions in #ubuntu-motu.
<cody-somerville> And I've not yet processed anything he has submitted to me that I was actually able to sponsor due to problems.
<geser> what kind of problems?
<cody-somerville> He requested a sync but did not test build it in Ubuntu. It turned out the package FTBFS in Ubuntu. I later found there was even already a bug report open regarding it.
<cody-somerville> Furthermore, doing an actual debdiff resulted in additional delta not mentioned in the package changelog and that was not mentioned in his request.
<cody-somerville> It appears the decision to request the sync was based entirely on examination of the package changelogs.
<cody-somerville> [TOPIC]  Administrative Matters: Membership renewal policy for delegated teams
<MootBot> New Topic:   Administrative Matters: Membership renewal policy for delegated teams
<geser> how many requests from Marco did you had to review?
<cody-somerville> oops
<cody-somerville> geser, It submitted 5 in total. The last one sent to me was January 25th.
<cody-somerville> *He
<cody-somerville> He sent me an e-mail February 7th regarding one of the requests I had not yet processed. The request was sufficiently old to ping me about it.
<bdrung_> did you had any problems besides technical issues?
<bdrung_> did he repeat mistakes?
<geser> I guess we can discuss this after your detailed report per mail, let's move to the next topic as the agenda is long
 * bdrung nods.
<ScottK> He's been involved in Ubuntu development since 2007, IIRC.  Basic stuff like test building he should know by now.
<Laney> currently the members of delegated teams need to have their membership renewed by an admin. I don't see what the point of this is, seems to be busy work to me. I suggest we allow members of delegated teams to renew themselves.
<Laney> sorry for being terse again, on phone
<bdrung> i am fine with this change.
<geser> ScottK: true, and this sound like the kind of the problems in the past
<cody-somerville> bdrung, He participated in #ubuntu-motu a few times even after reminder that it violated the agreement.
<Laney> shall we just vote?
<bdrung> yes
<ScottK> geser: Agreed.
<cody-somerville> greping my logs I actually see he said something to Laney on the 20th of January even
<cody-somerville> (in #ubuntu-motu)
<cody-somerville> Jan 20 13:03:39 <Kmos>	Laney: check collab-qa for udd scripts, there is a rcbugs for debian -> ubuntu, it could be adapted easily.
<cody-somerville> Laney, on the renewal policy?
<Laney> yes
<cody-somerville> Aye.
<cody-somerville> [VOTE] Allow members of delegated teams to renew themselves.
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Allow members of delegated teams to renew themselves..
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<bdrung> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from bdrung. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<Laney> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Laney. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<stgraber> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<cody-somerville> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cody-somerville. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<cody-somerville> #endvote
<cody-somerville> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<cody-somerville> [AGREED] Allow members of delegated teams to renew themselves
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Allow members of delegated teams to renew themselves
<cody-somerville> [TOPIC] Administrative Matters: New meeting time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Administrative Matters: New meeting time
<Laney> i'll have an action to update them
<cody-somerville> [ACTION] Laney to update delegated teams to allow members to renew their memberships themselves.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Laney to update delegated teams to allow members to renew their memberships themselves.
<Laney> we sometimes have issues achieving quorum
<Laney> I hope someonhe else can pesent this better)
<hrw> Laney: like 2 weeks ago?
<cody-somerville> Particularly at the earlier meeting time, right?
<Laney> There was a discussion on the ML about changing one or both of our times
<Laney> cody-somerville: yeah, I believe it doesnt work so well for those of us in the americas
 * cody-somerville nods.
<Laney> I think there was broad approval to move the earlier meeting 1 hour later
<cody-somerville> Agreed.
<Laney> but this slot seems to work OK
<cody-somerville> Agreed.
<Laney> does anyone have a problem with that?
<bdrung> looking at the meeting logs shows that we had problems only with the early meeting time (3x in the last half year)
<bdrung> moving the meeting won't change anything for me
<stgraber> moving the early meeting an hour later would make it a lot easier for me, still not perfect as it's a Monday morning and I tend to be busy with other things, but as it's once a month I should be able to make it
<geser> I can't make the early meeting at all (if that's a problem to reach quorum)
<cody-somerville> If anyone does have a problem, please feel free to e-mail the DMB mailing list. Otherwise I think its safe to say we'll move forward with the changes Laney described.
<cody-somerville> [TOPIC] MOTU Application: Sylvestre Ledru - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/SylvestreLedruMOTU
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU Application: Sylvestre Ledru - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/SylvestreLedruMOTU
<cody-somerville> I'm not sure if Sylvestre is here or not - lp page doesn't list IRC nick.
<cody-somerville> However, I'm happy to move forward with voting based on the contents of the application.
<Laney> I think we ought to give him a chance to respond to the comment
<cody-somerville> My vote would be the same even if the comment wasn't there.
<Laney> OK
<cody-somerville> The comment was also made on the 12th. In other cases where there was negative commentary on an application, applicants would often comment on the comment in-line.
<Laney> I'm keen not to hold up those who are here
<Laney> so however you wish to move forward
<bdrung> i prefer to talk to him before voting
<cody-somerville> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Core Developer Application: Clint Byrum - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ClintByrum/DeveloperApplication
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Core Developer Application: Clint Byrum - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ClintByrum/DeveloperApplication
<ScottK> BTW, I'd say -1 based on reviewing a disasterous upload from him during Maverick final freeze ...
<SpamapS> o/
<ScottK> (that was for Sylvestre)
<Laney> ScottK: could you elaborate on the application?
<ari-tczew> Sylvestre doesn't build package before uploading and then he comments on bug what I should to do to fix his FTBFS - funny... his bad upload, his fix - easy.
<Laney> SpamapS: hi
<Laney> how are you? :-)
<SpamapS> Very well thanks. No more jet lag this time.
<ScottK> Laney: I'll try to remember.  I'm on the way out the door right now.
<ScottK> +1 on SpamapS, BTW.
<ScottK> Gotta run.
<SpamapS> ScottK: ty!
<Laney> I see you commented on a lack of clarity around the application criteria - do you have any suggestions on how we can improve?
<geser> SpamapS: oh, did you accept enough tasks from ScottK that he changed his mind? :)
<SpamapS> I'd like to see a very clear pool of mentors established. The debian mentoring process seems stronger, and its very clear that your mentor will help guide you to the next step.
<SpamapS> geser: Yes I will have to shovel his sidewalk next time I'm in Baltimore. ;)
<Laney> We have a mentorship programme, but I agree that it's not very active right now...
<cody-somerville> SpamapS, Would you consider yourself familiar with Ubuntu development procedures and policies? Would you be able to advise a new contributor on them?
<SpamapS> Its also not exactly clear if I've "done enough" for core dev. Many of my colleagues tell me that I have, but there's no authoritative source that says yes.
<SpamapS> cody-somerville: I think in my brief time I've become quite familiar with the lower level of development; packaging, bug triage, patch forwarding, etc. With that, yes I think I would definitely be able to walk a new contributor through the process, and in fact, have been mentoring one such person just recently.
<BlackZ> Laney: we're *slowly* reorganizing it
<cody-somerville> SpamapS, How about in relationship to performing an SRU? Freezes? Freeze Exceptions?
<SpamapS> cody-somerville: to the point of higher level ubuntu policies, such as releases , MIR's, SRU's, etc., I'd say I am at an intermediate level, and still have a lot to learn, especially around the actual stable release process.
 * highvoltage wants to through in some cheerleading for SpamapS since he's very much present and involved in #ubuntu-motu and is helpful and interactive with the larger community (and in my opinion that means a lot)
<SpamapS> cody-somerville: I've actually begun the process of training with Martin Pitt to join the SRU team. :)
<cody-somerville> SpamapS, Are you a MOTU?
<SpamapS> that is something I just started two weeks ago, and have not added to my developer app yet.
<SpamapS> cody-somerville: no I am not a MOTU.
<cody-somerville> SpamapS, Is there a particular reason you haven't applied to be a MOTU?
<SpamapS> cody-somerville: by the time my application was ready, and I showed it to a few people, they said I should skip MOTU / server package set, and go for core dev.
<cody-somerville> SpamapS, have you had any uploads sponsored by a community member before?
<SpamapS> cody-somerville: Not sure I understand the question. I've had quite a few sponsored uploads to Ubuntu.
<cody-somerville> SpamapS, Have had any uploads sponsored by someone you don't work with? :)
 * tumbleweed has sponsored uploads for SpamapS
<tumbleweed> ( I think)
 * broder too
 * micahg sponsored some pre-canonical
<SpamapS> cody-somerville: to Ubuntu.. I don't know. Maybe ScottK has done a few uploads for me. I have had some things uploaded to Debian by people I don't work with.
 * SpamapS is ashamed that he doesn't remember all of his sponsors. :/
<broder> we really need a script for looking sponsorship info up
 * broder goes to see how quickly he can throw one together
<tumbleweed> broder: I have one somewhere
 * cody-somerville has no further questions.
<micahg> broder: I filed a bug to ask for it to be integrated into LP
<Laney> me neither.
<stgraber> I'm really sorry but I have another meeting in 3 minutes, so I'd appreciate it if we could vote on SpamapS. Then I'll have to leave you.
<broder> tumbleweed: sounds like that would be an awesome ubuntu-dev-tools addition, but let's take this elsewhere
<cody-somerville> [VOTE] Ubuntu Core Developer Application: Clint Byrum
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Ubuntu Core Developer Application: Clint Byrum.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<cody-somerville> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cody-somerville. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<bdrung> broder: i agree on both points
<Laney> +1
<stgraber> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Laney. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<bdrung> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from bdrung. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<cody-somerville> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<stgraber> congratz SpamapS
<cody-somerville> SpamapS, Congratulations.
 * SpamapS bows humbly
<cyphermox> congrats SpamapS
<Laney> \o/
<broder> congrats
<SpamapS> thanks so much to all. :)
 * SpamapS does a little dance at his desk
<cody-somerville> I also have to go now unfortunately.
<Laney> me too.
<Laney> We'll get through more applications next time.
<Laney> thanks all!
<geser> then we lost quorum?
<bdrung> SpamapS: you can continue that dance at UDS ;)
<cyphermox> appears so
<stgraber> geser: with 3 of us leaving out of the 5 present at the meeting, it seems so
<hrw> so 28 April
<cody-somerville> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 15:01.
<hrw> have a nice rest of day
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-03-29
<zul> hi
<RoAkSoAx> o/
<kirkland> \o\
<kirkland>  /o/
<sconklin> o\
<hallyn> \o
<hallyn> who's on bat?
<zul> hallyn: was it you last week?
<jamespage> o/
<hallyn> no, two or three weeks ago
<zul> who did last week?
<hallyn> spamaps?
 * hallyn checks the blog
<RoAkSoAx> yes \
<zul> i think its Daviey this week
<RoAkSoAx> yeah
<Daviey> Sorry, chaps... was on the phone... I'm back now.
 * hallyn tips his hat
<Daviey> two moments whilst i compose myself.
<Daviey> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:04. The chair is Daviey.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<robbiew> *\o/*
<Daviey> Hellow everyone, and thank you for coming.  Apologies for starting later than scheduled.
<kirkland> pom poms, robbiew ?
<robbiew> you know it!
<Daviey> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<Daviey> Daviey to talk with wider docs team regarding translations (deferred, carry over)
<Daviey> -- This is still carried over.
<Daviey> Daviey to post another followup one euca-dhcp bug. (carry over)
<Daviey> -- scheduled to talk with upstream today via phone.
<Daviey> (and yesterday for that matter)
<Daviey> SpamapS to put his version of ubuntuserver-minutes in directions for writing minutes
<Daviey>  -- looks done
<Daviey> [TOPIC] Natty Development
<MootBot> New Topic:  Natty Development
<Daviey> So, we are in Ubuntu Beta 1 hard freeze.
<Daviey> Hopefully the ISO building is starting to stabilise, and we should have a potential candidate soon (if not now)
<Daviey> We could do with some additional testing of these candidates..
<kirkland> Daviey: fyi, the aubergine color got dropped from the beta1 debian-installer :-(
<Daviey> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-server-ubuntu-11.04-beta-1.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-server-ubuntu-11.04-beta-1.html
<kirkland> Daviey: sort of inadvertent fallout of making it configurable
<zul> how come?
<Daviey> kirkland, that is a shame...
<kirkland> Daviey: i'm trying to fix it now
<Daviey> kirkland, So that will land after beta 1 now?
<kirkland> Daviey: yes, pray that the fix gets accepted for beta2
<kirkland> Daviey: cjwatson said that he's not rebuilding debian-installer for beta1 at this point (understandably)
<Daviey> kirkland, I hope so!  I liked the aubergine love.  It was in yesterdays ISO - when was it dropped?
<kirkland> Daviey: debian-installer rebuilt yesterday, which used the updated newt configuration, where newt's palette is configurable
<kirkland> Daviey: and that configuration did not propagate to the debian-installer bits
<Daviey> I see, thanks kirkland - is there a new bug / WI that is tracking this?
<kirkland> Daviey: i'm trying desparately to get it working
<Daviey> kirkland, rocking.
<kirkland> Daviey: i honestly haven't had time to file a bug, focused on fixing it ASAP
<Daviey> kirkland, ok, sounds good.
<kirkland> Daviey: but i thought i'd mention it here, thanks
<Daviey> Okay.. regarding our burn down chart..
<Daviey> As we are in freeze now, any items that are in main/multiverse need to be adjusted to beta2 - or discussion if they should be dropped.
<Daviey> Regarding release bugs... We do have a handful.. they look like they are making progress - so not sure we need to discuss them further here.
<Daviey> Does anyone else have any comments for Natty development?
<Daviey> moving on
<Daviey> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Server Team Events
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Server Team Events
<Daviey> Doesn't look like we have any new ones confirmed in the short term.
<Daviey> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<RoAkSoAx> This Saturday April 2nd. Texas Linux Fest. kirkland and I are presenting
<jamespage> Hmm well there is puppet camp at the end of next month
<RoAkSoAx> Daviey: ^^
<Daviey> RoAkSoAx, ah, thanks!
<zul> Openstack Summit next month
<Daviey> Yeah, i thought that was > short term. :)
<zul> it is short term :)
<Daviey> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<Daviey> hggdh, the floor is yours, sir
<Daviey> hggdh, seems afk... we will come back
<Daviey> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<Daviey> smb, Are you around?
<smb> Yes, a bit late but  I am here
<smoser> smb, bug 740658 and bug 741224 have popped up in the last few days.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 740658 in linux-meta-ec2 (Ubuntu) "kernels compiled with"CONFIG_HAVE_UNSTABLE_SCHED_CLOCK=y" lead to weird clock drifts on some CPUs. This may up ending in DOS" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/740658
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 741224 in linux-ec2 (Ubuntu) "m1.large instances randomly freezing for 5-15 minutes" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/741224
<smb> Mostly being trying to bring lucid-ec2 into shape
<smoser> both with a fair amount of helpful information.
 * Daviey looks
<smoser> just wanted to make sure you'd read through them, one follows through to upstream thread https://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/629361/
<smb> I think I had been looking at them. But I cannot say for sure exactly how things were there
<Daviey> smb / smoser: So the main issues with EC2 kernel is with Lucid, not Natty?
<smb> I need to get back tehere again
<smb> Daviey, There is one for natty afaik
<smoser> Daviey, the issues are present in all releases.
<smoser> :-(
<smb> the java not being installable on t1.micro
<smb> But other things tend to go quite a bit back
<Daviey> smb, is java on t1.micro looking good for Natty?
<smb> Daviey, no the other way round
<smb> it is not looking good for natty
<smb> but I had not yet time to look back into that
<Daviey> smb, ok, thanks
<Daviey> smoser, anything else for EC2?
<smb> There is one set of patches turning up a lot which changes the way interrupts are handled
 * hggdh is back from a phone call
<smb> unfortunately those are not really triviall to get back to Lucid (not to mention hardy)
<smoser> both t1.micro/java and those listed above are at least potentially bugs on all releases.  i fully trust smb, its just a matter of hours in the day, and as he suggests nothing is trivial
<smb> But at least natty should be fine in that respect
<Daviey> smb, I'm not sure our users would be too concerned with the fix landing in Hardy tbh.
<smb> Daviey, there has been asking
<smoser> there are some users who are interested in hardy fixes
<Daviey> oh.
<Daviey> smb, I was trying to make your life easier. :)
<smb> Nothing is impossible for the one that not has to do it. :)
<zul> has there been an update kernel for hardy yet?
<smb> Anyway those may go to Lucid
<smb> But then I still have to get that into there as well
<Daviey> Okay... are there any pressing issues for non-ec2 kernels atm?
<smb> zul, There has been no update to xen speciafically
<zul> smb: cool
<smb> I am not sure whether there has not been other changes in between though
<smoser> kernel related.... john johansen sent a mail to ubuntu-server mailing list
<smoser> asking for input on -virtual kernel.
<Daviey> yes!
<jjohansen> yep
<smoser> please, if the -virtual kernel has affected you, please speak up there.
<smb> zul, Actually, maybe you want to check whether you got the same amount of patches in your packatge
 * jjohansen was waiting to pitch it
<Daviey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2011-March/005348.html
<zul> smb: lets take it off line
<smb> There may have been something needing fix for a cve but I lost a bit track of time
<smb> ok
<Daviey> jjohansen, Do you want to speak?
<smb> jjohansen, go
<smoser> zul, fyi, hggdh has info on hardy kernel updates as well.
<jjohansen> Daviey: not really, I was just going to do a one more thing.  The kernel team is looking for kernel input, please reply to the mail, or hunt me down
<jjohansen> I think its been covered
<Daviey> super, thanks!
<Daviey> It's good to see there is not much concern with the tradional kernel for natty..
 * Daviey is happy
<Daviey> Thanks smb and jjohansen !
<Daviey> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<Daviey> hggdh, floor is yours, sir!
<hggdh> thanks
<hggdh> we are busy on ISO testing; also still working on the Euca bug
<hggdh> no news there yet
<hggdh> smoser: ec2 images ready for ISO testing?
<smoser> hggdh, yes.
 * Daviey has been working with hggdh to try and resolve the euca bug.
<smoser> jamespage, is working on this , we're attempting to test through jenkins with the work eh's done there.
<Daviey> jamespage, Do you want to comment on the jenkins testing?
<jamespage> yep
<jamespage> so I executed a full set of tests this afternoon; its thrown up a couple of minor bugs with the testing framework which I will fix ASAP.
<jamespage> Results here -> http://jenkins.qa.ubuntu-uk.org/view/natty-ec2/ if anyone wants to take a look
<Daviey> jamespage / smoser: Is this expected to be the primary testing, or will traditional testing still be conducted for b1?
<hggdh> jamespage: can we consider these results as the "official beta" results?
<hggdh> heh
<smoser> leaning torwards this being primary
<robbiew> +1
<Daviey> That should be a good time saving!
<jamespage> They are against 20110329
<jamespage> so we will need to run again
<hggdh> OK
<jamespage> Suggest I fix issues
<smoser> (not really much time saving... the other tests were all automated as well)
<hggdh> I *think* we now have the final ISO -- the .2
<jamespage> and they re-run once we think we have a good image for beta 1
<Daviey> (candidate)
<Daviey> jamespage, Are they triggered automatically?
<hggdh> Daviey: yes indeed, the final, er, candidate
<Daviey> heh
<jamespage> No - thats intentional as they cost $$ to execute.
<Daviey> ok, so smoser pings you to fire them?
<jamespage> At the moment they have to be submitted individually (which is a bit of a pain)
<jamespage> Yes - thats fine.
<Daviey> groovy.
<Daviey> Anything else for hggdh, or QA related?
<hggdh> .. from me
<Daviey> hggdh, super... thanks.. I think we'll be talking more this week. :)
<Daviey> moving on...
<smoser> well, since we're there.
<smoser> hold on
<Daviey> smoser, go
<smoser> so is there anything anyone knows about that should cause respin of 20110329 uec images ?
<smoser> (built on taht date ~ 1:00 am UTC)
<smoser> manifest http://uec-images.ubuntu.com/server/natty/current/natty-server-uec-amd64.manifest
<Daviey> smoser, Have you already tested those?
<smoser> that is what jamespage ran a test on.
<Daviey> ah
<Daviey> nothing of interest has changed AFAIK.
<Daviey> moving on.
<Daviey> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team
<Daviey> We do have quite alot of docs to do before release.
<Daviey> We need to review the current documentation.
<Daviey> and some people have WI for new docs.
<Daviey> [ACTION] Please review the current documentation.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Please review the current documentation.
<RoAkSoAx> what about the inclusion of new documentation
<Daviey> Hopefully we'll be able to touch some docs before next meeting.. if we comment next meeting what we have done, that will help.
<Daviey> RoAkSoAx, Yes, if the current documentation is weak in an area, it needs new documentation :)
<Daviey> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
<RoAkSoAx> Daviey: I mean completely new documentation that I'd like to include
<Daviey> RoAkSoAx, Yes, is that on one of the WI's?
<RoAkSoAx> Daviey: I would love to include Cluster Docs
<RoAkSoAx> Daviey: which I have made available at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ClusterStack/Natty
<Daviey> RoAkSoAx, That sounds like a good idea.. do you know how to submit it?
<RoAkSoAx> Daviey: nope, that's why I was asking :)
<Daviey> RoAkSoAx, Okay, I'll take the action of providing guidance to -server ml.
<RoAkSoAx> cool ;)
<Daviey> (I need to check with the docs team, anyway)
<Daviey> [ACTION] Daviey to talk with docs team about new submissions.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Daviey to talk with docs team about new submissions.
<Daviey> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
<Daviey> Is there anything new here?
<Daviey> any new contributors want to say hello? :)
<Daviey> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<Daviey> Anyone have anything else to add?
<robbiew> Daviey is the new Ubuntu Server Technical Lead
<robbiew> whoohoo
<robbiew> heh
<RoAkSoAx> \o/
<Daviey> STC. :)
<jamespage> \o/ - congrats Daviey
 * Daviey blushes.
<Daviey> moving on gracefully.
<Daviey> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
<Daviey>     Tuesday, April 5 2011 16:00 UTC
<MootBot> New Topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<raphink> congrats
 * robbiew begins the delegations of time waisting work and meanless duties
<robbiew> meaningless
<Daviey> oh joy
<Daviey> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:48.
<JFo> o/
<sconklin> \o
 * tgardner waves
<jjohansen> \o
<ppisati> o/
<sforshee> o/
 * smb is here
 * ogasawara waves
<bjf> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is bjf.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<bjf> ##
<bjf> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<bjf> ##
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<bjf> # Meeting Etiquette
<bjf> #
<bjf> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<bjf> [TOPIC] Release Metrics (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Release Metrics (JFo)
<JFo> Release Meeting Bugs (6 bugs, 8 Blueprints)
<JFo> ==== Beta 1 Milestoned Bugs (59 across all packages (down 29)) ====
<JFo>  * 4 linux kernel bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ti-omap bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-meta-ti-omap bug (no change)
<JFo> ==== Release Targeted Bugs (274 across all packages (up 1)) ====
<JFo>  * 22 linux kernel bugs (up 2)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ti-omap bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-meta-ti-omap bug (no change)
<JFo> ==== Milestoned Features ====
<JFo>  * 7 blueprints (Including HWE Blueprints)
<JFo> ==== Maverick Updates Bugs ====
<JFo>  * 60 Linux Bugs (down 13)
<JFo> ==== Lucid Updates Bugs ====
<JFo>  * 94 Linux Bugs (no change)
<JFo> ==== Bugs with Patches Attached:84 (up 1) ====
<JFo>  * [[https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.has_patch=on | Bugs with Patches]]
<JFo>  * [[http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/ | Breakdown by status]]
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: Natty Bug Handling (JFo)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-bug-handling
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: Natty Bug Handling (JFo)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-bug-handling
<JFo> * I am reviewing the items this week (had planned to do last week, but didn't get to it)
<JFo> to determine what, if any, items need to be postponed or require further discussion at UDS. There
<JFo> are several items that are relatively straightforward and simply need to have the time allotted
<JFo> for them to be completed. I'll plan and implement that schedule for myself also this week.
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: General Natty (apw / ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: General Natty (apw / ogasawara)
<ogasawara> Beta-1 is this Thursday, March 31.  Beta-1 will ship with the 2.6.38-7.39 kernel which is based on mainline v2.6.38.  Do not expect any further uploads of the kernel until after Beta.  In the mean time we've been queueing patches in the master-next branch including rebasing to the most recent 2.6.38.2 stable update.  Also keep in mind that Kernel Freeze is April 14, ~2weeks away.  After kernel freeze we will transition t
<ogasawara> o our SRU policy when submitting and accepting patches.  See:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/KernelUpdates and
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/Dev/StablePatchFormat
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/KernelUpdates and
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/Dev/StablePatchFormat
<ogasawara> I'd like to also note that Kernel Freeze is also the same date as Beta 2.  Any uploads beyond that would likely have to be of the kitten killing nature.
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Stable Kernel Team (sconklin / bjf)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Stable Kernel Team (sconklin / bjf)
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || We are extending the verification phase of this kernel cycle to two weeks in order to resync with master
<sconklin> || Natty interlock schedule.
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || Due to a shortage of testing resources and testing required for the upcoming Natty release, there will
<sconklin> || not be a normal two-week kernel release cadence for the next few weeks. The schedule is as follows:
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || kernel  (maverick, lucid) -> proposed  3/25
<sconklin> || verification in progress this week
<sconklin> || hw cert/qa   - 4/1-4/7
<sconklin> || kernel (maveric, lucid) -> update 4/7
<sconklin> || kernel ( maverick, lucid?)-> proposed 4/22
<sconklin> || verification 4/25-4/29
<sconklin> || hw cert/qa - 4/29 - 5/5
<sconklin> || kernel (maverick, lucid? ) to update 5/5
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || * We will complete verification (or revert of patches) by this Friday for the current kernels.
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || * We will have no uploads on the 8th of April, effectively skipping one of the two week
<sconklin> ||   cycles that we have been on.
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || * We will upload Maverick and Lucid to -proposed on Friday, April 22
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || We still have not found the root cause of a build failure for the hppa architecture for the Hardy
<sconklin> || linux-backports-modules package. This must be understood and resolved before we can release the
<sconklin> || Hardy kernel packages, so if it is not resolved by the end of this week we will have to delay
<sconklin> || the testing phase for Hardy until we understand it.
<sconklin> ..
 * tgardner is working on it...
<bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Maverick/Lucid/Karmic/Hardy/Dapper (sconklin / bjf)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Maverick/Lucid/Karmic/Hardy/Dapper (sconklin / bjf)
<sconklin> || Package                                    || Upd/Sec              || Proposed             ||  TiP || Verified ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || dapper   linux-source-2.6.15               || 2.6.15-57.94         || 2.6.15-57.95         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || hardy    linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24   ||                      || 2.6.24.18-29.9       ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24       || 2.6.24-28.47         || 2.6.24-29.49         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-backports-modules-2.6.24    || 2.6.24-28.37         || 2.6.24-29.39         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta                        || 2.6.24.28.30         || 2.6.24.29.31         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux                             || 2.6.24-28.86         || 2.6.24-29.88         ||    3 ||        3 ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || karmic   linux-ec2                         || 2.6.31-308.28        || 2.6.31-308.29        ||    1 ||        1 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux                             || 2.6.31-23.74         || 2.6.31-23.75         ||    1 ||        1 ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || lucid    linux-ec2                         || 2.6.32-314.27        || 2.6.32-315.28        ||    5 ||        4 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-ports-meta                  || 2.6.32.30.23         || 2.6.32.31.23         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-lts-backport-maverick  || 2.6.35.25.36         || 2.6.35.28.37         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-lts-backport-maverick       || 2.6.35-25.44~lucid1  || 2.6.35-28.50~lucid1  ||   13 ||       12 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-backports-modules-2.6.32    || 2.6.32-30.29         || 2.6.32-31.31         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-firmware                    || 1.34.4               || 1.34.7               ||    1 ||        1 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux                             || 2.6.32-30.59         || 2.6.32-31.60         ||    5 ||        4 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta                        || 2.6.32.30.36         || 2.6.32.31.37         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-ec2                    || 2.6.32.314.15        || 2.6.32.315.16        ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || maverick linux-backports-modules-2.6.35    || 2.6.35-28.19         || 2.6.35-28.20         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux                             || 2.6.35-28.49         || 2.6.35-28.50         ||    5 ||        4 ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/versions.html has ner-live version information
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/versions.html has ner-live version information
<sconklin> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<JFo> Incoming Bugs
<JFo>  453 Natty Bugs (up 94)
<JFo>  1238 Maverick Bugs (up 6)
<JFo>  1053 Lucid Bugs (up 8)
<JFo> Current regression stats (broken down by release):
<JFo> ==== regression-update ====
<JFo>   * 42 maverick bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 76 lucid bugs (up 1)
<JFo>   * 7 karmic bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 0 hardy bugs (no change)
<JFo> ==== regression-release ====
<JFo>   * 217 natty bugs (up 55)
<JFo>   * 239 maverick bugs (down 3)
<JFo>   * 222 lucid bugs (up 1)
<JFo>   * 38 karmic bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 2 hardy bugs (no change)
<JFo> ==== regression-proposed ====
<JFo>   * 10 natty bugs (up 2)
<JFo>   * 0 maverick bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 0 lucid bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 0 karmic bug (no change)
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<JFo> nothing to report on until next week.
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Triage Status (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Triage Status (JFo)
<JFo> Another pretty slow week for triage.
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<bjf> thanks everyone
<bjf> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:08.
<JFo> thanks bjf
<sconklin> Thanks!
<sforshee> thanks bjf
<fagan> o/
 * stgraber waves
<fagan> my first meeting in a month
<stgraber> not that we actually had many others ;)
 * wendar waves
<stgraber> last one we were only two attending
<fagan> hehe
<fagan> well I had tests
<stgraber> I guess we might need to restaff the ARB
<fagan> and now a job :)
<stgraber> as pretty much everyone is busy with a lot of other things and we aren't that many on the board
<fagan> well im good to go from here on in
<wendar> yes, UDS should be good for that
<fagan> well id be looking to continue on the board
<fagan> since now I have loads of time
<stgraber> cool !
<stgraber> btw, I just uploaded "news"
<fagan> nice
<wendar> excellent!
<stgraber> it got approved a while ago. We've been waiting for IS for a few weeks to get the screenshots uploaded
<maco> ARB?
<fagan> maco: yep
<stgraber> then I noticed a few packaging mistakes that I asked to be fixed before uploading
<maco> fagan: ENOPARSE
<fagan> maco: ??
<maco> oh wait i get it now
<stgraber> there was just a really small packaging issue remaining but nothing that'd be a problem for the upload, so it should now be on extras.ubuntu.com soon enough
<maco> application review board
<ajmitch> maco: the meeting currently in progress :P
<stgraber> maco: app review board
<fagan> maco: hehe
<wendar> maco: yes :)
 * ajmitch is here for a short time before having to run to work
<wendar> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 13:03. The chair is wendar.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<wendar> [TOPIC] Review action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review action items
<wendar> [LINK] http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppReviewBoard/Agenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppReviewBoard/Agenda
<wendar> some of these we just need to clear out now
<wendar> like, conventions for tarballs?
<wendar> any problems with deleting it?
<fagan> im good with that
<wendar> will do
<wendar> daily-journal I found out about sideways, when we started getting failure reports on it from Natty
<ajmitch> it should go, I think
<wendar> it was added in Maverick as the first test app for extras
<wendar> ajmitch
<fagan> yeah it was
<wendar> ajmitch: agreed
<stgraber> +1
<fagan> +1
<wendar> but, it was apparently copied over to Natty when the Natty archive was created
<ajmitch> I didn't think it was meant to be used by people, I think we can delete it from the PPA?
<wendar> so, needs to be removed from natty too
<fagan> wendar: probably
<ajmitch> however, we have to check on what deleting it from the PPA will do to extras.ubuntu.com
<wendar> does someone want to take on that task?
 * fagan wouldnt know who to ask 
<wendar> fagan: daily-journal was already removed from maverick?
<fagan> wendar: nope
<wendar> okay
<ajmitch> probably start with asking mvo, he might at least know who else to talk to
 * wendar looks at stgraber, for expertise in removing things from archive
<ScottK> It's probably worth a soyuz bug to now forward copy extras.ubuntu.com when a new release is created.
<ScottK> ajmitch: I'd ask wgrant.
<ScottK> now/not
<wendar> ScottK: yes, definitely worth that
<ajmitch> ScottK: right
<fagan> so who wants to go do that
 * ajmitch can ask him about it
<stgraber> wendar: I'd think removing it from our PPA and waiting 24h should do the trick. It won't remove it from users' machine though
<wendar> thanks, ajmitch!
<wendar> stgraber: I doubt many users have it installed
<wendar> stgraber: this guy installed it looking for something entirely different
<stgraber> if we want to remove it, we'd need to upload an empty package or something, so I guess just removing it should be fine for now
<fagan> well maybe removing it from 11.04 but not maverick just to be sure?
<stgraber> hmm, I only see it for natty
<stgraber> https://launchpad.net/~app-review-board/+archive/ppa/+packages
<fagan> I dont think it does any harm by just sitting in the archive
<fagan> oh then its ok if we remove it
<stgraber> mvo: ping
<stgraber> mvo: the package description indicates that it's there for software-center testing
<stgraber> mvo: and will be removed before release
<stgraber> can we consider "before release" as == "now" ?
<fagan> I think so
<stgraber> and maybe find another way of testing extras.ubuntu.com in the future, even if that's to send an actual app through the review process
<ScottK> I think remote removing installed applications from user machines without a very strong reason is a very good idea.
<ScottK> ... is not a ...
<fagan> well I think its ok for testing in dev releases
<ajmitch> ScottK: I don't think we want to do that
<fagan> id say it doesnt cause any harm
<stgraber> ScottK: agreed
<stgraber> removing from PPA now
<ScottK> "Canonical remote deleting apps, just like Apple" <-- slashdot.
<ScottK> Don't need that.
<fagan> :)
<wendar> stgraber: thanks
<stgraber> ScottK: yeah, the remote removal stuff was discussed at UDS for cases where there is a serious security vulnerability and upstream doesn't provide a fix in a reasonable delay (and we can't find an ARB member willing to fix it)
 * fagan remembers that 
<ScottK> Yep.  That's a bit different than 'oops, it shouldn't have been there and we're getting bug reports now'.
<fagan> I dont think thats on a wiki somewhere
<wendar> fagan: not yet
<stgraber> fagan: it's probably on gobby, maybe on LP but probably not on the wiki ;)
<ajmitch> stgraber: the usual breakdown in communications then
<stgraber> yeah
<fagan> so next?
<wendar> the last action item from previous meetings is the submission guide on the wiki
<wendar> which is a work in progress
<wendar> (good place to add notes on possible actions for security flaws)
<wendar> is it worth keeping as an action item for next time
<wendar> ?
<wendar> as a reminder?
<fagan> wendar: id love to spec a meeting to get an api for app submission going
<fagan> for the UDS
<wendar> yes, good idea
<wendar> we may be able to piggyback on some existing code, which would be good
<fagan> yeah that would be cool
 * ajmitch would like to have had reviewing going smoothly before worrying about that
<wendar> I'll tag that as an action item
<wendar> ajmitch: well, we had one that went like clockwork
<wendar> then it hung for over a month waiting for screenshots
<fagan> ajmitch: well id say it would have to be there before the LTS release
<fagan> and the review process would be sorted by then anyway
<wendar> so, technology is getting in the way of the process
<fagan> yeah
<wendar> next, proposal reviews...
<fagan> I just think it would be good to at least talk about anyway
<wendar> definitely
<wendar> there's been some work on the "developer console" website that was discussed at last UDS
<wendar> just a start, but it has potential for our use
<fagan> I dont remember that
<wendar> have to poke around and find the blueprint
<wendar> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/appdevs-n-commercial-apps
<mvo> stgraber: sorry, missed the ping. indeed, just for testing we should delete it soonish
 * fagan has access to canonical wiki now so can actually see that
<fagan> the wiki link I mean
<wendar> hah, no reason it should be private
<wendar> (and actually, the wiki is dead now anyway)
<fagan> wendar: well the u1 team uses it a bit
<wendar> on to proposals?
<stgraber> mvo: ok, I removed it 10min ago
<fagan> wendar: I havent looked into the app that im assigned to
<fagan> :/
<wendar> 4dtris?
<fagan> has any one else followed up?
<fagan> yep
<wendar> [TOPIC] Proposal Review - 4dtris (fagan)
<wendar> [LINK] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-app-review-board/+bug/644443
<MootBot> New Topic:  Proposal Review - 4dtris (fagan)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-app-review-board/+bug/644443
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 644443 in Ubuntu Application Review Board "Application Review Request: Basenji 0.7.1" [Undecided,Won't fix]
<stgraber> I only had one app assigned to me IIRC and was waiting for a new upstream release
<fagan> Yeah I havent looked at 4dtris
<wendar> fagan: looks like not yet
<fagan> yeah
<fagan> I poked the code a little but didnt get to look down enough to give a review
<stgraber> I just marked pytask as incomplete until we get a new upstream release
<wendar> stgraber: good
 * ajmitch was waiting for upstream to look at the packaging changes in a branch for simple-stopwatch, and had taken a look at the code of schedio
<stgraber> hmm, apparently we don't have auto-expiry turned on for ubuntu-app-review-board so we'll have to manually expire them :)
<ajmitch> to be generous, schedio will take some work :)
<fagan> stgraber: well that will only be needed if we had an API and a lot of reviews in the queue
<wendar> stgraber: given our current speed, that's probably good
<wendar> IIRC, SIR was ready to go, just waiting for screenshots
<fagan> wasnt that already given the ok?
 * fagan cant remember 
<wendar> yes it was approved
<stgraber> wendar: there's screenshots attached, it needs to be put in a branch and merged into the screenshot branch
<fagan> ah thats ok
<wendar> oh, it also needs the custom metadata fields
<ajmitch> what sort of size limit would you put on something for code review?
<fagan> ajmitch: I think thats subjective
<wendar> stgraber: yes, I offered the developer to do the branch and proposal for merge, then never got to it
<stgraber> ajmitch: I wouldn't give a size limit, if it feels too big/complex to you, then it's probably worth rejecting
<fagan> you could have 5000 lines of really basic code or 1000 of the most complicated code
<ajmitch> fagan: right, I'm just going for generalities, as I look at schedio
<fagan> ajmitch: id say more than 2000 is my limit
<fagan> id be a little bit afraid of missing something important in more than that
<ajmitch> this one rocks in at 15k, mostly repetitive gtk+ coding, but some interesting stuff as well :)
<fagan> ajmitch: if its 15k but repeating it could be acceptable
<ajmitch> I'd reject it out of hand just looking at it, just don't know the polite way to do so :)
<fagan> ajmitch: just say there is a complexity restriction
<wendar> that it looks more appropriate to the full review process
<fagan> that you are sorry but the application is just too bad for the app review process
<fagan> but that they should go to the repo with it
 * ajmitch has to leave in a couple of minutes, anyway
<wendar> the last two are Tibetsi and harmonySEQ
<wendar> new proposals with no shepherds yet
<wendar> I can take one, now that news is launched
 * fagan has one
<wendar> will we get any more apps through the process before Natty is released?
<fagan> I dont think we will
<stgraber> just looking at tibesti, there seems to be quite a few alternatives in the archive doing a very similar job
<fagan> the next meeting is the week before release
 * ajmitch has to run now, will read log later
<fagan> later ajmitch
<wendar> then we should switch to reviewing for entry into Natty (after release)
<fagan> id say so
<fagan> I dont know really id love to talk about this at the UDS
<wendar> yes
<stgraber> considering how long it takes to get an app in the repository, it might be worth asking the new ones if they want to apply for 10.10 or 11.04
<wendar> especially the fact that the current scheme has us re-reviewing all the apps each time
<fagan> I think we should stick to the LTS release after the next LTS is released
<wendar> now we've only got 2
<wendar> but next cycle, we might have 10 or so
<wendar> and the cycle after that,...
<fagan> and hop between LTS to LTS
<wendar> fagan: that doesn't quite fit with the idea of getting apps on "the current release"
<wendar> or at least, it's only half the story
<stgraber> wendar: don't they have to re-apply for that ? I'm guessing part of the apps will be in the archive or superseded by something else. So it'll definitely get worse with time, but not necessarily a lot worse.
<fagan> wendar: well the LTS is supposed to be the target of of apps that are going to get use for a long time
<wendar> stgraber: they do have to reapply, which means we have to re-review
<fagan> and id say that app developers would like to have their app in the repo for the longest time
<wendar> stgraber: it should be easier than the first review, if there were no changes, though
<stgraber> wendar: reviewing a new version is just a matter of checking the delta, so it should go a lot faster at least.
<fagan> so if it goes to the LTS release and then gets mirrored to the normal releases (where possible) it would work
<wendar> fagan: well, the idea was that ARB apps wouldn't be used for a long time... but, probably something to talk about at UDS
<fagan> yeah
<fagan> too bad im not traveling again
<wendar> in general, UDS seems like a good time to take stock of what we've done so far
<wendar> fagan: we'll get you in on IRC
<fagan> wendar: yeah id love if I could go on mumble or something instead
<fagan> but I suppose IRC would be ok
<wendar> fagan: yeah, I think they had that set up last time too
<stgraber> we can quite easily arrange using skype/mumble if listening to the stream + IRC isn't working well enough
<wendar> but, we should talk on the mailing list ahead of time too
<fagan> yeah well I can get stuff across by talking a lot easier than IRC
<fagan> and its sometimes easy to miss stuff on IRC when talking in the room
<fagan> anyway any more reviews?
<wendar> that's all
<fagan> cool
<fagan> good meeting
<wendar> who wants to chair next time?
<fagan> I can do it
<wendar> great, thanks!
<wendar> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:53.
<fagan> oh the mootbot got an update
 * fagan hasnt seenthat
<fagan> *seen that
<soren> How can you tell?
<soren> fagan: ^
<fagan> soren: the time the meeting finished on
<fagan> I havent seen the MootBot in so long
<fagan> :)
<soren> It's the same isn't it? UTC-5?
<soren> A remarkably useless default, by the way.
<stgraber> yeah, US central time seems quite weird ;) I'd have been fine with US eastern or UTC ...
<fagan> UTC would be the most useful
<soren> Yeah. I think I filed a bug about that years ago..
<fagan> years ago?
<soren> Indeed.
<soren> https://bugs.launchpad.net/mootbot/+bug/138905
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 138905 in Mootbot "Time is way off" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<fagan> I didnt even think the bot did that so it doing that for years is pretty funny
<soren> 3Â½ years ago.
<fagan> soren: how did you get the half there
 * fagan doesnt have that on his keyboard
<micahg> ha ha, I always thought it was local to the user, then again, I'm in its timezone
<soren> Get a new keyboard.
<fagan> lol
<fagan> â¬Â©â¢Â§Â¡Â¡Â¦Â§â âÂºÂªÂ§â¬Â©â¢Â¦ÃÃ¾Â¥ÃºÃ­Ã³Ã­ÃºÄ±Â¨Ä±Â´âÃ³ââ
<fagan> crap
<fagan> didnt mean to spam :)
<highvoltage> yes you did I can see it on your face!
<fagan> highvoltage: your behind me arent you :P
<stgraber> fagan: Nope, I'm behind him and he only has his laptop in front of him :)
<fagan> stgraber: hehe
<highvoltage> omg he is really
<stgraber> ;)
<fagan> :)
 * ajmitch wonders what odd meeting this is :P
<fagan> ajmitch: yeah but nice
<vish> Canadian Cabal!
<fagan> Eh?
<vish> highvoltage and stgraber
<fagan> vish: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCypAqZI9Yc
<fagan> I meant eh as in canada eh
<highvoltage> hi vish
<vish> hey
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-03-30
<robbiew> o/
<mvo> hello
<ev> hi-o!
<jhunt_> o/
<barry> howdy
<robbiew> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:03. The chair is robbiew.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Lightning Round
<MootBot> New Topic:  Lightning Round
<robbiew> ev?
<ev> please to come back around?
<robbiew> ev: ohhhh
<robbiew> you miss the mumble
<robbiew> now not ready
<robbiew> tsk tsk
<robbiew> lol
<ev> yeah, I'm a terrible person
<robbiew> indeed
<robbiew> 40 lashes
<robbiew> mvo?
<ev> hahaha
<nigelb> I read that as slashes...
<mvo> App-install-data update for beta1
<mvo> Apt-clone: fix FTBFS, upload new version
<mvo> Apt: discussion about the mirror method, more fixes in the mirror method, upload
<mvo> Aptdaemon: debug/fix parse error in configparser, add regression test, relax lintian checks in aptdaemon (lp:~mvo/aptdaemon/relax-linitina-checks)
<mvo> Auto-upgrade-tester: debug bug in python post-upgrade test code, deploy/verify the fix on pommerac, look at OOo upgrade failure in main-all
<mvo> patch-pilot (#735262, pangomm, #730144, lp:~ted/ubuntu-dev-tools/create-new-milestone, #698208, #730365, #642913, #732457)
<mvo> performance review (that took a bit)
<mvo> Python-apt: add "strip_multiarch" parameter to parse_depends, add xz support in python/arfile.cc
<mvo> software-center: branch merges, bugfixes, fixes in the stats handling, review/merge cmdline apps launcher branch and tweak it (shows commandline tools now),
<mvo> quid-deb-proxy: fix permissons of 30autoproxy (#697955), add logrotate (#718923), merge fix for #686265, merge sysv init script, move avahi advertise into main upstart job
<mvo> sudo: Sudo: look into upgrade prompt #690873 and upload fix (was a bit overly cautious with this one probably), thanks to Colin for his review
<mvo> User-setup: add fix to avoid double adding %admin in sudoers (thanks to Colin for his review)
<mvo> (done9
<mvo> )
<robbiew> I'm convinced mvo is a bot
<cjwatson> mvo: you know, I was just going to ask you about xz support
<mvo> ha! iRobot, or rather uRobot
<cjwatson> mvo: do apt and python-apt now have xz everywhere they have lzma?
<mvo> yes, they should be
<cjwatson> we'll want to backport that to lucid-cat, so that we can use it to deploy data.tar.xz support in Launchpad
<mvo> incidently I created one for squeeze already, so that should be straightforward
<mvo> how urgent is it? I can try to squeeze it in today
<cjwatson> sometime this week would be fine - just trying to arrange that we can use it next cycle
<cjwatson> debExtract is the bit that LP uses directly
<cjwatson> (not sure that's the same as the bit that dak uses)
<mvo> ok
<robbiew> thnx mvo
<robbiew> doko?
<doko> gcc-4.6 release packages, test rebuilds, multiarch fixes (and ongoing) ...
<doko> openjdk pre-release builds
<doko> ..
<robbiew> thnx
<robbiew> barry?
<barry> bug 711225 (subprocess.Popen() crash); python upstream bug 11677 (test perf probs on ecryptfs); upstream bug 11715 (multiarch build failures); pep 396 (module version numbers); udd stakeholders meeting; tech talk; performance reviews; gsoc 2011; done.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 711225 in python-apt (Ubuntu Natty) "subprocess.Popen() crashed with TypeError in _cleanup(): an integer is required" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/711225
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 11677 in hotplug (Ubuntu) "Agpgart is blocking Nvidia's agp driver causing bad performance" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/11677
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 11715 in nfs-utils (Ubuntu) "nfs-utils: new changes from Debian require merging" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/11715
<mvo> thanks for 711225 \o/
<barry> mvo: that was fun!  and i got a good blog posting out of it :)
<mvo> cjwatson: I just noticed the pyhton-apt change is not uploaded yet into natty, I can do that now or after the freeze
<cjwatson> either will be fine, thanks
<robbiew> barry: thnx!
<robbiew> jhunt_?
<jhunt_> cat <<EOT
<jhunt_> Updates to Upstart Cookbook (including documenting build process).
<jhunt_> Appraisal work. Discussions and review with csurbhi on initramfs changes
<jhunt_> EOT
<robbiew> heh
<robbiew> \o/ for the Upstart Cookbook
<robbiew> jhunt_: thnx
<robbiew> ev?
<ev> Helping yaili with the desktop tour, working with mpt on a few o-series installer specifications (handling a damaged windows partition, redesigning the advanced partitioner, ...). Working with mpt and allison on identifying the application development process pain points for platform futures and presenting that to Rick and Matt.
<ev> Ubiquity bug gardening. Finally merged in the unit tests branch of ubiquity, then beat it into working on the buildds. Fixing installer beta milestoned bugs and battling gtk to the death (why can't we have a decent layout engine?).
<ev> Testing the upgrade/reinstall stuff and attempting to fix problems along the way (big thanks to mvo for apt-clone 0.1.2); still need to fix duplicate entries in sources.list.  Got a new slideshow fixed up and out the door, with at least one more major dump of images before 11.04 final (from the desktop tour work).
<ev> (done)
<robbiew> nice...thnx!
<robbiew> psurbhi is out sick
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Natty
<MootBot> New Topic:  Natty
<robbiew> Beta 1 tomorrow...the flood of bugs is near!
<cjwatson> hi, you missed me :)
<robbiew> lol
<robbiew> damn it
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Lightning Round...part 2
<MootBot> New Topic:  Lightning Round...part 2
<robbiew> cjwatson?
<cjwatson> done: wubi-related grub move-mount bug (738345); backport a bunch of plymouth patches (553745, 518926, 546251); sponsor backport of w3m <button> patch (683337); fix grub-setup if first partition isn't near start of disk (691569); initramfs adjustment for multiarch (728611); installer wrong keymap boot parameters (742558); generally trying to keep on top of ISO-testing installer bugs; wrote a bunch more GRUB ...
<cjwatson> ... documentation, especially what all the environment variables do; performance reviews
<cjwatson> todo: continue trying to keep on top of ISO-testing installer bugs; I've been trying to milestone things for beta-2 as we go along
<cjwatson> --
<cjwatson> there, wasn't that exciting
<robbiew> very!
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Natty...again :/
<MootBot> New Topic:  Natty...again :/
 * barry can exhale again!
<robbiew> so I haven't checked...but do we have any outstanding workitems or features?
<robbiew> if so, probably need to be postponed/deferred
<robbiew> to either Oneiric...or Oblivion ;)
<cjwatson> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-foundations.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-foundations.html
<cjwatson> I have a few open items which can be tweaked
 * mvo too
<cjwatson> (bugs on the WI list are hard to move sometimes)
<barry> me three
<cjwatson> surbhi's event-based-initramfs work was always intended for o anyway
<cjwatson> doko has a stack of toolchain items
<cjwatson> ev has an oem-config item (start plymouth from ubiquity - did this happen?) and a couple of usb-creator bug-fixes
<cjwatson> and there are some foreign items
<robbiew> yeah...I can ignore the foreign items
<robbiew> or "clean" them later ;)
<robbiew> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-linaro-n-toolchain-selection was never approved
<robbiew> a little odd it would be tracked
<ev> cjwatson: no, I wasn't able to sufficiently untangle X in time
<doko> ok, I'll update these
<ev> the usb-creator ones are non-issues.  It already works with apport.
<robbiew> doko: ok, thnx
<ev> I'll close those out and defer the oem-config one
<robbiew> ev: thx
<robbiew> moving on...
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Oneiric
<MootBot> New Topic:  Oneiric
<robbiew> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/OneiricPlanning
<robbiew> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/OneiricPlanning
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/OneiricPlanning
<robbiew> created this
<robbiew> pretty empty atm
<robbiew> I think I should I make a call for Foundations topic... similar to Ubuntu Server
<robbiew> we don't have our own list, so ubuntu-devel will have to do
<robbiew> but I can request people add some sort of tag in the subject line, to make it easy to track
<cjwatson> that sounds fair
<robbiew> I suppose we could have a free-for-all on the wiki...but that gets crazy
<robbiew> imo
<robbiew> I'll send something out today
<robbiew> [TOPIC] AOB/GoodNews?
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB/GoodNews?
 * ev had already started free-for-all'ing it. *Uncommits*
<mvo> we have a production ratings&reviews server now (before we just (ab)used staging)
<doko> watch this: http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20110329-natty.html
<ev> ubiquity finally has a set of unit tests that run during build, so hopefully that will be enough to motivate us to not let them bitrot
<robbiew> ev: no worries on adding
<robbiew> ev: I just don't want to promote people doing it ;)
<ev> oh, the unwashed masses
<ev> gotcha ;)
<robbiew> heh
<robbiew> doko: is the rebuild done?
<robbiew> mvo: \o/ on RnR production server
<mvo> :)
<doko> robbiew: https://launchpad.net/builders/
<robbiew> you know...a simple yes or no works too
<doko> i386 at m, amd64 at l in main, universe not yet started
<robbiew> got it...thnx
<robbiew> anything else?
<robbiew> once?...
<robbiew> twice?....
<doko> and armel at c, will take some weeks
<robbiew> lol...ok
<doko> half of the buildds down :-/
<robbiew> don't worry...soon we'll be drowning in ARM servers :P
<robbiew> and with that bit of humor?
<robbiew> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:37.
<robbiew> thnx all!
<barry> thanks robbiew !
<ev> thanks!
<mvo> thanks
<jhunt__> ta!
<shadeslayer> \o
<Riddell> hello Kubuntu meeting
<Riddell> neversfelde, apachelogger, rgreening, ScottK: council ping
<valorie> 0/
<ScottK> o/
<BluesKaj> Howdy
<steveire_> Hi
<Riddell> hmm, two council members
<apachelogger> aloha
<rgreening> hey
<rgreening> woo-hoo
<rgreening> 3
<ScottK> I think we have a quorum.
<Riddell> lovely
<ScottK> 4 even
<rgreening> bada-ching
<Riddell> well hello friends, let's start with memberships
 * BluesKaj observes
<Riddell> steveire_ wants to be a member, steveire_ can you tell us who you are and what you do in Kubuntu?
<shadeslayer> hey
<debfx> o/
<steveire_> Yep, sure
<steveire_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/steveire
<steveire_> I have been a kubuntu user for several years and use it for kde development
<steveire_> Generally my contribs to kubuntu come in the form of bug reports and patches to make kubuntu better for my development tasks
<steveire_> I'm also a contact-guy of sorts for kontact/kde pim
<steveire_> in the irc channel
<Riddell> it's certainly nice having an upstream developer in the channel, we'll have some questions for you about natty's kdepim coming up I suspect
<steveire_> I'd like to more in the form of developer mentoring, like the ubuntu app developer week
 * rgreening notes make PIM faster is a bug/feature request for me
<steveire_> But I can't do the next one because I'll be travelling then
<ScottK> It looks like most of your work is upstream.
<steveire_> And I intend to do a lot of kdepim 4.6 testing on kubuntu
<rgreening> awesome!
<Riddell> steveire_: your karma shows lots of bzr branches, what are they? https://launchpad.net/~steveire/+karma
<ScottK> steveire_:  How do you feel about Kubuntu's relationship with the rest of the Ubuntu project?
<steveire_> Riddell: I don't know.
<steveire_> Maybe grantlee commits?
<Riddell> oh aye, grantlee is on launchpad
<Riddell> steveire_: what attracts you to kubuntu over other distros?
<apachelogger> steveire_: any predictions on when Kubuntu will reach world domination?
<steveire_> ScottK: Yes, most of my FOSS work is directly KDE related. The kubuntu related stuff I do is not as big a focus of mine as the upstream kde stuff. I just work on kubuntu stuff where I try to make the developer experience better
<steveire_> Riddell: Familiarity mostly. I know how to handle deb packages, but always stuggle on meego :)
<steveire_> ScottK: What relation to the rest of the project do you mean?
<steveire_> In terms of how it's viewed?
<rgreening> steveire_: What, if anything, would you change with how Kubuntu looks and feels as a distro and as a representative of KDE
<ScottK> If you're a Kubuntu member, you're also an Ubuntu member so I'm curious how you think things are working with the larger Ubunt project.
<steveire_> rgreening: I wouldn't change much. I'm not certain how much kubuntu already changes in KDE, as I'm a konsole kinda guy for a lot of things.
<Riddell> steveire_: you missed out apachelogger's question
<rgreening> Riddell: that was a real question... :)
<steveire_> ScottK: I'm still not certain about what you mean about how it's working. Apart from reading planet ubuntu I don't read more into the larger ubuntu project.
<ScottK> OK.
<steveire_> apachelogger: No predictions yet, no. Those can often come back to bite one :)
<apachelogger> very true indeed ^^
<steveire_> Let's see how the touch/mobile variants progress and see
 * BluesKaj thought apachelogger's question was rhetorical
<steveire_> That's a growth vector for sure
<Riddell> well, a quandry, is someone who is mostly an upstream developer but likes to makes links to downstream doing enough for that all important @kubuntu.org address
<steveire_> Riddell: My application is about satifying that curiousity exactly.
<steveire_> :)
 * rgreening thinks having a PIM guy on the team is a worthwhile thing
<BluesKaj> well, back to the trenches....later all
<Riddell> steveire_: would you consider coming to an Ubuntu Developer Summit?
<rgreening> my biggest pet peeves of late surround the whole new PIM stack and having someone who can make that experience better under Kubuntu works for me
<steveire_> Riddell: Can't do the next one (It's in May, right)
<Riddell> yes
<steveire_> But in general, yes, I've heard good things
<steveire_> If it's in Europe :) Not a big fan of transatlantic flights
<Riddell> I think I'm a 0 on the voting, on the one hand steveire_ is a lovely guy who's doing useful upstream stuff and some linking to Kubuntu but I'm not sure I've seen enough linking to call that significant and sustained yet
<Riddell> rgreening, ScottK, apachelogger: got votes/more questions?
<apachelogger> steveire_: What qualifies you best to become a Kubuntu memeber?
<rgreening> steveire_: are you willing to help make PIM not just developer, but user freindly for Kubuntu?
<rgreening> e.g. how would/could you help on this for Kubuntu?
<Riddell> installing natty beta and stopping it popping up evil dialogues by default would be a wonderful help
<steveire_> apachelogger: Probably that I'm reachable to other kubuntu peeps on pim issues and file bug reports.
<steveire_> rgreening: Yes. Starting with making that dialog a plasma popup and giving more info on what the problem is (usually it's an unchecked 'Nepomuk enabled' checkbox in syssettings, but I plan to do that anyway.
<ScottK> But what if I want Nepomuk not to be enabled?
<steveire_> I have the natty iso, but didn't install it yet as I need to do a training with my laptop soon
<ScottK> If it's a live cd, you can do this from a live sesson.
<ScottK> No need to actually install.
<steveire_> ScottK: Then you don't get search and kmail has to tell you why, but that's a technical discussion anyway
<ScottK> I ask because I don't actually own any hardware where I get acceptable performance with it.
<Riddell> the live CD has different errors (nepomuk) from the installed sessions (other random things)
<rgreening> steveire_: awesome. FOr me, my daily use on my Kubuntu is E-mail, Web and Cal/Schedule/Contacts. This is typical user stuff and 66% is PIM related. So this is important for a broad base.
<rgreening> I give a +1 for bringing some love to PIM to Kubuntu, and hopes on more to come.
 * Riddell nudges ScottK and apachelogger 
 * apachelogger needs to flip a coin
<apachelogger> +1
<valorie> what, no blood pledges to give 100% efforts to bring Kubuntu world domination?
<apachelogger> oh right
 * rgreening thinks ScottK either died at the keyboard or didn't hear you nudge him Riddel :)
<ScottK> I'm +0 on this one.  I've seen good work from steveire_ on helping with upstream coordination and getting issues resolved, but I'd like to see more involvement with K(U)buntu as a project.
<valorie> I have no vote, but a useful PIM would be sooo nice
<rgreening> lol
<apachelogger> +1, iff steveire_ makes kubuntu go world domination
<Riddell> anyone remember the agrees voting method for split votes?
<ScottK> I don't think we can do conditional votes.
<rgreening> with an extra 'f' to boot
<rgreening> hmmm
<apachelogger> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_and_only_if
<Riddell> steveire_: I think we need to get neversfelde and jontheenchilada to vote too, so we'll discuss it by e-mail and get back to you
<valorie> steveire_: do you have a LoCo?
<apachelogger> Riddell: it would still need quorum
<valorie> that's a nice way to 1. get out
<Riddell> steveire_: thanks for taking the grilling
<valorie> and 2. see other *buntu users
<valorie> and 3. convert them to KOObuntu users
<Riddell> I have a couple other items of business, anyone else have business items?
<rgreening> steveire_: regardless, please keep up the hard work on PIM!!! :)
<ScottK> I'd rather people convert Windows users.
<valorie> true
<valorie> still working on that, also
<ScottK> steveire_: Definitely appreciate the contributions.  Please keep it up.
<Riddell> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2011-March/005057.html  is unanswered
<Riddell> we need a team name for packaging branches
 * apachelogger thinks we should put stronger focus on solaris user
<Riddell> I'm thinking  kubuntu-packagers
<steveire_> Thanks, sorry I was distracted IRL for a few minutes there.
<apachelogger> Riddell: works for me
<rgreening> wfm as well
<steveire_> valorie: I have the Berlin one I guess, and was half planning on going to the gnome release thingy
<valorie> cool
<Riddell> approved on kubuntu-packagers!
<steveire_> I've gotta run. Bye!
<ScottK> Riddell: I think that's fine.
<valorie> we don't have to recruit *buntu users, really, but it's good to be part of the community
<rgreening> l8r steveire_
<Riddell> my other business item was a question, what would happen to Kubuntu if I disappeared for six months?
<valorie> !
<ScottK> That would be "bad"
<valorie> scary thought
<rgreening> Riddell: well, depends... do you hand off before you leave or just disappear?
<Riddell> surely we have enough community that it would continue well enough?
<rgreening> just disappear == rocky road for sure
<rgreening> rocky != fail though
<shadeslayer> Riddell: sure .. just clone yourself before you leave :P
<valorie> Riddell, you have quite a bit in your head
<ScottK> Riddell: We could mostly muddle through, but there are some points where having a Canonical person is just about essential.
<apachelogger> valorie would take leadership and lead us into battle against windows, after 3 months we would have won and realized that we should have really targetted solaris
<valorie> lol
<shadeslayer> hahaha
<nigelb> apachelogger: Good one.  I agree.
<Riddell> ScottK: why a canonical person?  for the hours or something else?
<rgreening> Riddell: document the bits you do for Kubuntu openly and behind the scenes and then ask yourself if they are necessary and who could take on the pieces (may be more than one)
<apachelogger> ScottK: we also know plenty of other canonical employees
<ScottK> For the hours and for sometimes you can reach people we have trouble getting.
<shadeslayer> Riddell: seriously ... we would appoint apachelogger as our leader and our next release would be called phononbuntu
<apachelogger> probably
<shadeslayer> or javabuntu ... whichever wins
<apachelogger> the coin decides
<valorie> for actual seriously, Riddell 1. knows a lot, 2. does a lot, 3. facilitates tremendously
<rgreening> Riddell: is this pure conjecture or do you have a real reason for asking?
<shadeslayer> indeed ^^
<maco> yeah, what rgreening asked
<apachelogger> Riddell: the community is strong these days, so I am pretty sure we could manage :)
<Riddell> valorie: I'm not sure I know a lot that others don't, that's the nice thing about an open project
<valorie> thinking about taking a cycle off?
<maco> or going on rotation with another team...
<Riddell> I'm pondering doing a rotation to another part of canonical for the next cycle, to keep my elite skills fresh
<valorie> well, you've been in Kub. since the beginning
<rgreening> Riddell: ah. cool
<ScottK> Riddell: Maybe if we get agateau in exchange.
<valorie> so you have that sense of history
<maco> ScottK: thats what i was gonna say
<rgreening> Riddell: so, not disappear then. As your replacement could always refer to you in some fasion behind the scenes if necessary.
<Riddell> ScottK: that would need him to talk nicely to his manager, assuming he'd even want to
<Riddell> rgreening: there probably wouldn't be a replacement
<ScottK> Certainly.
<valorie> hmmm
<apachelogger> agateau: action item for you ^ :)
<ScottK> Riddell: We'd survive and I think this next cycle would be better than the one after.  Eventually you will need to do something else.
<rgreening> hmm.... so let me ask longer term.... if you do not come back, what does the community do? Canonical has put support behind Kubuntu via you, and if that disappears, what does that mean from Canonical supporting Kubuntu
<Riddell> rgreening: I'd expect to come back
<ScottK> rgreening: Let's not get the cart before the horse.
 * apachelogger nods
<valorie> I think the rest of us could do some of the facilitation
 * rgreening has to think worst case scenario to be sure we cover our bases (I'm in mgmt so it's what I do best)
<apachelogger> rgreening: also I would believe that is a question canonical management would have to be asking themselfs
<valorie> and the doing - but you are full-time
<valorie> that's a lot of work
<Riddell> useful food for thought, I'll give it some pondering, thanks all
<rgreening> exactly, it's one less paid FT Kubuntu/KDE person
<rgreening> :)
<Riddell> any other business?
<rgreening> not here
<doko> look at the build failures ...
<apachelogger> agenda says something about beta stuff
<valorie> do you know when UDS sponsorship emails will be sent?
<Riddell> oh aye, how's beta doing, anyone else tested it?
<Riddell> I think it's reasonable beta quality
<maco> my natty system at home seems happy
<apachelogger> doko: what build failures?
<Riddell> except for kubuntu-mobile which is rebuilding
<ScottK> Riddell: Can we revert your notifications change in k-d-s for Quassel?  They've been on since the beginning and it undoes existing user settings on upgrade?
<apachelogger> actually, if I may hijack the topic
<apachelogger> we need more people on mobile
<Riddell> ScottK: not a fan of message indicator now?
<apachelogger> so we probably should do some promotional stuff to possibly attract minions
<Riddell> apachelogger: mobile hasn't seen a lot of love this cycle, lack of anything to run the stock images on is presumably an issue
<ScottK> Riddell: MI is fine, but I still want to see the content of the message in a notification (this is what Ubuntu does, AFAIK)
<Riddell> ScottK was talking about getting n900 images up
<apachelogger> Riddell: more a problem of people breaking the stack ever so often :/
<ScottK> I'm also working on getting mx51 images stood up next week too.
<rgreening> beta seems fine here.
<Riddell> ScottK: is that consistent with what we do in kopete?
<apachelogger> at any rate, what we need is people to work on it and get annoyed of its present shortcomings and then do something about them
<ScottK> Riddell: IIRC, yes.
<ScottK> I know I get notified on IM stuff.
<ScottK> I didn't change that one.
 * apachelogger notes that this stuff is usually a lot more tedious than on a desktop or netbook target thus more engineering power is needed
<valorie> isn't kopete dead?
<ScottK> Unmaintained.
<Riddell> valorie: it's our default IM client
<ScottK> Still the standard KDE IM client.
<ScottK> Not quite the same as dead.
<valorie> student wanted to do a Kopete GSoC and couldn't find a mentor
<Riddell> any other quassel users want to argue with ScottK ?
<apachelogger> telepathy shall probably replace it at one point or another
<ScottK> valorie: That's unmaintained part speaking.
<valorie> ok
<apachelogger> valorie, ScottK: also shit in focus to telepathy :P
<valorie> I don't use IM beyond the occasional gtalk
<apachelogger> no point investing in a product that is going away in the long run
<ScottK> apachelogger: Sure.  I'm not much of an IM user.
<shadeslayer> compiling telepathy is currently a PITA
<ScottK> Of course all products go away inthe long run, so you can take that POV too far.
<shadeslayer> i've been at it for about 1.5 days
<ScottK> Riddell: What say you?
<ScottK> shadeslayer: Get a bigger laptop.
 * apachelogger notes that he still doubts the telepathy architecture, but that is a story for another time
<apachelogger> ScottK: like that is possible ^^
<shadeslayer> ScottK: i'm broke :P
<Riddell> ScottK: on quassel?  go ahead and revert if you think it's important
<shadeslayer> apachelogger: sure why not, i could get a 17" ?
<Riddell> personally I found the popups annoying but I suppose it depends on how many people ping you
<ScottK> Well I think size is not the important metric.  If it were, you'd have been done in 5 minutes.
<ScottK> Riddell: I will.  It's a deviation from upstream where the need isn't clear.
<Riddell> ok I've got to go
<ScottK> (MI only ~replaces the action button, not the actual notification)
<Riddell> thanks for the meeting everyone
<ScottK> Later.
<shadeslayer> ScottK: not exactly ..some stuff was too old for telepathy, some of it was too new
<apachelogger> cya
<shadeslayer> apachelogger: ciao
<ScottK> shadeslayer: Oh, well upstream insanity also makes things fun.
<shadeslayer> indeed
<valorie> good meeting, all
<apachelogger> shadeslayer: jr is leaving, not me :P
<shadeslayer> thank god i can mess around with neon
 * apachelogger has 500 mails to write
<shadeslayer> Riddell: would moving to another team mean you will contribute less to KDE too?
<valorie> that would suck
<valorie> badly
<shadeslayer> yeah
 * highvoltage can't imagine anything getting in the way of Riddell contributing to KDE
<inetpro> highvoltage: why?
<doko> apachelogger: http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20110329-natty.html   rebuild still running, see the email to u-d-a
<highvoltage> inetpro: because he's a Jonathan. he's unstoppable.
<inetpro> ha :-)
 * stgraber waves
<stgraber> highvoltage: ping
<highvoltage> stgraber: pong
<highvoltage> stgraber: are you and M going to make it back in time?
<alkisg> o/
<stgraber> mgariepy and I will have to skip this meeting, sorry
<highvoltage> stgraber: ok
<stgraber> just left the US
<highvoltage> ouch, ok
<highvoltage> who else is here for the Edubuntu meeting?
<highvoltage> here's the Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Meetings/Agenda
<highvoltage> and the roadmap wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Devel/RoadMap
<highvoltage> Beta 1 release is happening tomorrow, we're mostly looking good for that, I've been testing upgrades today
<highvoltage> as well as i386/amd64 DVD installs
<highvoltage> still have to test LTSP but at least it installed fine
<highvoltage> I missed some icons in the installer slideshow, but it's not critical, I hope to get a freeze exception for those
<highvoltage> we still also have italc crashing on amd64, which is weird since we thought we removed it from the live session
<highvoltage> RubÃ©n Romero y Cordero has been working on improving the relationship between Debian-Edu/Skolelinux and Edubuntu
<highvoltage> he arranged for the Debian guys to join us for this meeting so that we can discuss collaboration, unfortunately I don't know their nicks, are you guys here?
 * huayra would be RubÃ©n
<arnt> I am the board leader in FRISK the member organization for DebianEdu
<highvoltage> ah right! hi huayra and arnt :)
<arnt> FRISK  is short for "Free software in the schools" , an organization that promots the use of the FLOSS software in the Norwegian schools
<huayra> hi highvoltage and the rest of the edubuntu team
<arnt> hi highvoltage
<highvoltage> would you mind giving some introductions? unfortunately everyone isn't here, but it would be nice for the logs (I'll post it to the lists) and I'll take the liberty of introducing marc/staphane who can't be here right now
<arnt> hi the rest :)
<alkisg> Hi arnt and huayra :)
<highvoltage> I'm Jonathan Carter, I work for RÃ©volution Linux that implements a full range of Linux solutions, we have many schools and educational institutions as clients and it's an important part of what we do
 * alkisg is a Greek teacher, promoting (ed)ubuntu/ltsp in greek schools (about 200 so far)
<highvoltage> mgariepy and stgraber also works with me, they're on their way back from the US (we're based in Canada) so they couldn't make it for this meeting
<arnt> My name is Arnt Ove Gregersen, I work as a system developer at day time creating map related software , in my spare time I am the board leader for FRISK the DebianEdu member organization that works to promote FLOSS software in Norway
<highvoltage> the active members on https://launchpad.net/~edubuntu-members/+members is pretty much who's been recently active in Edubuntu. as you see it's a small team
<highvoltage> mhall119, who's usually around also works on Qimo4kids, a distribution for young kids: http://www.qimo4kids.com/
 * huayra is an Ubuntu Member and FRISK board member. Contact member for the Norwegian LoCo team. work with sales of Free Software. driver of SpreadUbuntu. Have a love for Skolelinux and Edubuntu, so it makes sense for me to do what I do (whatever it is I am doing)
<highvoltage> we've worked together to get some qimo packages into ubuntu. for the next release we should have a full qimo system available in the archives. it would actually be quite nice to have it available for debian as well
<arnt> sounds like a good idea
<highvoltage> in terms of what edubuntu does, it's not that far off from skolelinux/debian-edu. here are some screenshots of what we install: http://edubuntu.org/screenshots
<huayra> the usual route is Debian>Ubuntu IMHU
<huayra> Is there a way to get it the other way around in a smooth way that you know of, highvoltage (or anyone else?)
<highvoltage> huayra: indeed. we have some things in Ubuntu that's not packaged in Debian yet, like Nanny, for example
<mhall119> highvoltage: I missed the deadline to get anythign new into Natty's archives, I'll re-group and shoot for Oniric
<mhall119> Oneiric
<highvoltage> huayra: personally I'd want to become a Debian maintainer, so I'd love to do more Debian work, but I'll just need a sponsor
<mhall119> one of these days I'll remember how to spell it
<alkisg> ÎÎ½ÎµÎ¹ÏÎ¹ÎºÏ :)
<mhall119> if I can get some help, I'd love to get qimo packaged for debian
<huayra> highvoltage, I know several debian developers in the company I work at. I am not sure how that process work, but we could have a private chat on that afterwards and see what we can do
<highvoltage> huayra: vagrantc is going to help me with some ltsp packages, but if I could have some people willing to sponsor from the debian-edu side, that would be great
<mhall119> oh dang, this is a meething, and not #edubuntu, /me attention fail
<huayra> there is a lot of good will in the debian-edu site AFAIK
<highvoltage> huayra: great. there are other packages too like librecad, and also a bunch of other stuff we'd like to get in that would be more appropriate with the debian -> ubuntu route
<huayra> People are positive to work with Edubuntu as long as we work towards concrete results
<huayra> arnt, am I right?
<highvoltage> I think it's like that from both sides :)
<huayra> That is my impression from the Debian-edu dev meeting I assisted to, at least
<huayra> highvoltage, indeed :)
<highvoltage> heck, I'd even be happy if we can start communicating more :)
<highvoltage> but getting packages into debian would be a good start, imho
<highvoltage> at least, our steadily growing list of things that's just in the ubuntu archives and not in debian
<arnt> huayra: it is my impression as well
<arnt> communication is a good thing :)
<highvoltage> arnt: that was the IRL meeting right?
<arnt> IRL meeting ?
<highvoltage> IRL = In Real Life (as apposed to an IRC meeting)
<arnt> ah :) yes
<huayra> yes, highvoltage. In Oslo
<huayra> I have to admit that I didn't catch the IRL either...
<huayra> :)
<highvoltage> huayra mentioned before in an email that we could perhaps look at scripts and packages that would make it easier to integrate an edubuntu desktop machine into a skolelinux network
<highvoltage> do you have any strong feelings about that, arnt?
<arnt> yes, I guess that would be a good way to start the cooperation
<highvoltage> I was wondering whether some people might feel that we'd try to steal desktops from debian-edu or something if we do that
<highvoltage> but I also think that it would be nice if we could do that, considering that we don't have the central authentication abilities in edubuntu out of the box that you have in debian-edu
<arnt> many of our users use both debianedu and  ubuntu / edubuntu in mixed enviroment so I guess that would make many people happy
<huayra> That was a proposal from a debian-edu dev. And he also mentioned something like: "some people use thin clients, some use fat clients and we have to please them all"
<highvoltage> so, so far we can already:
<highvoltage> 1. work on getting ubuntu-only packages into debian
<highvoltage> 2. work on better "interoperability" (for lack of better word right now) between edubuntu and skolelinux
<highvoltage> (I think that's already a good start)
<arnt> me too
<alkisg> Indeed
<huayra> sounds good, but we should divide 2 in 2 points:
<highvoltage> ah, I guess it's also worth while mentioning a slight bit about how we make decisions
<highvoltage> we have the Edubuntu Council, members are listed here: https://launchpad.net/~edubuntu-council
<huayra> 2.1 Ship Edubuntu with packages that integrate into a Debian-Edu server environment
<highvoltage> project-level decisions are usually voted on by the council, although I doubt we'll need to do anything like that today
<huayra> 2.2 Have a viable and open channel of communication between both communities where interoperability issues can be handled
<highvoltage> I usually hang out on #debian-edu, so if anyone needs to poke someone about an ubuntu/edubuntu issue, feel free to poke me
 * huayra would like to emphasize: these are proposal, not orders or desicions :)
<highvoltage> (or any of us that are there, for that matter)
<highvoltage> huayra: *nod*
<highvoltage> we're about to finish off the current ubuntu development cycle, the next release is in April
<highvoltage> after that comes the Ubuntu Developer Summit, a few of us will be there to flesh out the ideas and proposals made for the next release cycle
<highvoltage> when planning the next release we can take debian-edu into account considering what we discussed today, and put the todo list items in our roadmap
<huayra> is UDS in Europe or in the US this time?
<highvoltage> Europe
<huayra> where?
<highvoltage> Budapest: http://uds.ubuntu.com/
<huayra> I am considering to assist, but haven't check this time around yet (real life catching up...)
<huayra> about time to get back to Budapest :)
<huayra> ok, sorry, please continue
<highvoltage> no problem, I hate being the only one talking :)
<highvoltage> at least we can do a lot of things that aren't tied to the Ubuntu release cycle
<highvoltage> like packaging work in debian, for example
<arnt> great
<huayra> highvoltage, I can't come :( But will try to assist remotely if we can agree on setting up a meeting there that you can lead
<highvoltage> I don't know if there's anything else we can do for Debian at this stage, but we're certainly open to ideas
<huayra> We could invite Debian-Edu devs to join if it makes sense
<highvoltage> huayra: ok, I'll be sure to send you the details when scheduling is available
<huayra> arnt, thoughts around that?
<huayra> alkisg, mhall119 do you have ideas or wishes?
 * mhall119 hasn't been following along, sorry
<highvoltage> huayra: yep, I guess not all our sessions will be interesting for everyone, but we could probably have a session where some of these things could specifically be covered
<arnt> huayra, sounds like a good idea
<huayra> thanks highvoltage. I'll make sure to pass the information to FRISK and hopefully get some debian-edu devs joining, at least remotely
<alkisg> huayra: here in greece we're interested in the authentication part of skolelinux, it'd be great if that could cooperate with edubuntu desktops. So all of you covered what I wanted to say :)
<mhall119> I will be in Budapest though
<mhall119> if there's a session I can make
<huayra> sounds like we have 2 points we can work on and get down and dirty with themunder UDS
<highvoltage> (bbiab)
<huayra> and it seems we have enough time to get it all planned relatively well
<highvoltage> ok, back. stgraber and mgariepy also just arrived
<mgariepy> hi
<jever> moin
<highvoltage> what we've discussed in terms of collaboration so far, at least as proposals are:
<highvoltage> 15:24 < highvoltage> 1. work on getting ubuntu-only packages into debian
<highvoltage> 15:25 < highvoltage> 2. work on better "interoperability" (for lack of better word right now) between edubuntu and skolelinux
<highvoltage> 15:26 < huayra> 2.1 Ship Edubuntu with packages that integrate into a Debian-Edu server environment
<highvoltage> 15:27 < huayra> 2.2 Have a viable and open channel of communication between both communities where interoperability issues can be  handled
<huayra> hi mgariepy and stgraber
<highvoltage> and that we'll probably have at least one UDS session where debian-edu folk can participate remotely
<highvoltage> (well, they can participate in all of them, of course, but one session at least that's focussed on collaboration, etc)
<highvoltage> how should we take this further? a wiki page?
<huayra> (and they can come to Budapest if they want or even ask for sponsorship from canonical)
<highvoltage> yep, the sponsorship deadline was yesterday, but if someone is serious about it they could probably still get in a late application
<huayra> A wiki page sounds good. Arnt should we replicate it in our site or just use the Ubuntu Wiki?
<arnt> a real life  meeting between the developers sounds like to something we should try achieve
<huayra> I do not want to tip on anyone toes here, so I ask this in the open :)
<arnt> huary , at least we should link to it from our site
<highvoltage> personally I don't care where it is, but it should really be something we all can edit
<huayra> highvoltage, indeed.
<highvoltage> so either the ubuntu wiki or debian wiki would be ideal imho
<huayra> Arnt can we ask if any devs want to join this and ask them to apply for sponsorship. It's been a long time ago collaboration in this front happened and I am sure we can move some bricks and see if some sponsorship can be done
<highvoltage> fwiw I'm also going to try to attend debconf later this year
<arnt> is there any information on how and where to apply ?
<highvoltage> arnt: it's all on the UDS microsite: http://uds.ubuntu.com
<huayra> http://uds.ubuntu.com/participate/sponsorship/
<arnt> ok, thanks
<highvoltage> arnt: we might have to ask the ubuntu community manager for some intervention, since the deadline for sponsorship applications has past, but I think it's worth a try
<huayra> highvoltage and arnt: i can ask Jono if we get someone on board
<highvoltage> huayra: great, thanks for taking that
<stgraber> hello again
<stgraber> just got back at the office
<huayra> but I will already ask him now so it's worth the effort of someone applying
<highvoltage> ok
<highvoltage> stgraber: do you have a minute to glance over the scrollback and provide some feedback?
<arnt> huayra, great
<huayra> arnt, can you take the asking the Debian-Edu dev community about this?
<huayra> please :)
<arnt> huayra, I will do so
<arnt> huayra, we can coordinate it afterwards
<highvoltage> is there anything else that we should discuss today?
<huayra> great
<highvoltage> (I'll send the logs of this discussion to both devel lists so that everyone can be up to date)
<arnt> highvoltage, I do not think so, we should start by taking small steps in my opinion
<arnt> highvoltage, and the above steps seems like some good steps to start with
<highvoltage> indeed.
<highvoltage> shall we adjourne?
<highvoltage> we're pretty much always available in #edubuntu as well, fwiw
<huayra> I think this is a good start, indeed
<arnt> I agree
<highvoltage> alkisg, huayra, arnt, mgariepy, mhall119, stgraber, jever: thanks for attenting!
 * highvoltage hits the end of meeting gong
<alkisg> Thanks :)
<highvoltage> *GONG*
<mgariepy> Thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-03-31
<ogra_> moo
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * NCommander mutters something about the sun
<ogra_> its called oracle nowadays, no ?
<NCommander> ogra_: that pun made my head hurt
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110331#
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110331#
<davidm__> ogra_, true enough, I think they are selling off the sun.com domain
<NCommander> Need a moment to fix it, the page didn't save last night
<NCommander> there are no standing items
<ogra_> wohoo
<NCommander> er
<NCommander> action items
<NCommander> [topic] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel.html
<MootBot> New Topic:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel.html
<NCommander> and http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel-ubuntu-11.04-beta-2.html
<ogra_> no action items, working images ....
<ogra_> we should all go on holiday immediately !
<ogra_> :)
<NCommander> ogra_: indeed
<NCommander> Burndown charts look good
 * ogra_ twiddles thumbs waiting for FF
<NCommander> although I don't know when I got this work item:
<NCommander> "other-design-n-china	Undefined	Elliot Murphy, Michael Casadevall: Ensure that it becomes easy to download Ubuntu and updates within China
<NCommander> "
<ogra_> FF4 on 512M is really painful
<janimo> ogra_, what about chromium?
<NCommander> ogra_: we should ship chromium out of the box, maybe a bug for UDS
<ogra_> janimo, neon issues i think, SIGILL on startup
<janimo> ogra_, ah, tegra
<ogra_> i havent researched yet since i'm not sure its tegra specific
<rsalveti> :-)
<highvoltage> any full-featured web browser will be tough on 512MB, it's not a browser issue, it's the data you load with it
<ogra_> FF3 is fine
<highvoltage> web pages are fhuge
<ogra_> actually a lot better than 4
<ogra_> swaps a lot less
<janimo> ogra_, I wonder what FF4 for android does - although those phones may have more than 512M
<ogra_> so our reputation for beta 2 fully hangs on ricardo :)
<GrueMaster> I forgot to close out my 1 outstanding item (add headless to iso tracker).  Closed now.
<rsalveti> well, not my nexus s
<rsalveti> and it runs quite well
<NCommander> rsalveti: thought you had a samsung galaxy S
<rsalveti> had :-)
 * NCommander has 512MiB on his Nexus One, and 256 on his G1 and they were both good
<rsalveti> ogra_: yeah :-)
<NCommander> rsalveti: so you replaced your phone ... with the same phone?
<rsalveti> but actually depending on progress by linaro
<ogra_> anyway, lets move on, there are some kernel bugs we need to talk over
 * janimo is yet to own a phone that knows better than grayscale and have > 2" screen
<rsalveti> NCommander: yup, but naturally with a newer android version
<rsalveti> so, move
<NCommander> [topic] Unity 2D Status
<MootBot> New Topic:  Unity 2D Status
<ogra_> fine so far, i will get the final code dump from upstream on the 7th
<ogra_> final freeze is the 10th btw
<ogra_> kate moved it forward
<davidm__> Nice, they look to be closing bugs pretty well now
<ogra_> oh, i had a list even
 * ogra_ digs
<ogra_> https://launchpad.net/unity-2d/+milestone/3.8.2
<ogra_> thats it for u-2d
<ogra_> if you find any additional bugs you want fixed, raise them with upstream please
<ogra_> move (unless there are questions)
<NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, rsalveti)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, rsalveti)
<rsalveti> Ubuntu-2.6.38-1207.10 finally hit the archive for omap4
<ogra_> pgraner gave me a list of bugs from beta teating he wants to have properly adressed ...
<rsalveti> with display and hdmi audio fixes included
<ogra_> bug 746133
<GrueMaster> Need more fixes in both areas.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 746133 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu) "Video loses sync on omap4" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/746133
<ogra_> bug 746137
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 746137 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu Natty) "Page allocation failure on omap4" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/746137
<rsalveti> yeah, luckily GrueMaster was able to hit display issues with this kernel
<rsalveti> as nobody had any issues
<ogra_> he also mentioned bug 651302 but there shouldnt be any kernel stuff to do
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 651302 in Ubuntu Natty "No sound in omap (beagle, beagleXM)." [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/651302
<rsalveti> not for beagle
 * ogra_ didnt have a single display issue with headless ;)
<GrueMaster> Wrong bug
<rsalveti> the page allocation failure I'm waiting a new test
<ogra_> well, thats not true, i did
<rsalveti> that I requested at the bug
<GrueMaster> bug 746023
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 746023 in alsa-lib (Ubuntu) "No sound on omap4" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/746023
<GrueMaster> That one I filed against alsa-lib (UCM).
<rsalveti> again we should spend some time fixing the audio issues for both boards
<ogra_> GrueMaster, in any case there shouldnt be any kernel work even for trhat one
<ogra_> right
<ogra_> rsalveti, well, for panda its a matter of getting the UCM config file
<GrueMaster> There shouldn't be kernel work for either board sound issues.
<ogra_> yeah
<GrueMaster> Beagle works with minor tweaks in alsamixer.
<ogra_> we should also get the highmem issue higer on someones todo
<ogra_> doesnt really feel like anyone looks into it
<rsalveti> well, current status is that it appears in some boards
<ogra_> agreen always starts talking about bluetooth if you ask him about highmem :)
<rsalveti> because he's unable to reproduce it with his board
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> but everyone else is, no ?
<rsalveti> so it's possible to be related with the hardware
<ogra_> his might be broken in a fixing way ;)
<rsalveti> ogra_: not everyone else, some people from the community are also unable to reproduce it
<ogra_> ah
<ogra_> weird
<rsalveti> yeah
<NCommander> can I move?
<ogra_> but losing 256M on the buildds is bad
<rsalveti> not yet
<janimo> rsalveti, so I should set panda mem use in boot.scr to 1G if I want to test this?
<rsalveti> janimo: yes
<ogra_> for that we should really have some kind of fix or workaround in place
<rsalveti> it'd be good if everyone could help testing it
<ogra_> NCommander, action :)
<rsalveti> and on other topic, robclark published the drm driver for omap
<ogra_> nice
<rsalveti> to be used at omap 4 so we can have xrandr at the xserver driver
<NCommander> [action] janimo to test panda with mem=1G
<MootBot> ACTION received:  janimo to test panda with mem=1G
<rsalveti> as it also probes for edid, I'm testing the dvi support
<rsalveti> and porting it to be used by omap 3 as well
<rsalveti> so we can also have edid parsing and proper resolution setting
<ogra_> NCommander, s/janimo/everyone with a panda/
<davidm__> perhaps we need to send agreen a board that shows the highmem problem
<janimo> rsalveti, what kind of loads make the highmem issue appear? I mostly do builds
<ogra_> janimo, builds do
<rsalveti> current status is the drm driver is working with omap3, but still needs more debugging at the edid parsing for dvi
<ogra_> ;)
<rsalveti> janimo: mostly builds
<rsalveti> janimo: we used to build kernel
<rsalveti> after 2, 3 builds it fails
 * rsalveti looking for the bug number
<rsalveti> bug 633227
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 633227 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu Natty) "instabilities with highmem activated" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/633227
<rsalveti> any other question for kernel?
<NCommander> [action] everyone with a panda to test panda with mem=1G
<MootBot> ACTION received:  everyone with a panda to test panda with mem=1G
 * NCommander is mentally lagging, too early
<rsalveti> not that related but I should be updating the x-loader package soon
<rsalveti> so we can have es2.2 support
<ogra_> i dont think mem=1G is the right arg
<janimo> what is the missing 512M-460M in the first address region is for? Video?
<rsalveti> ducati
<ogra_> you need to respect the memory hole for ducati
<janimo> mem=460M@0x80000000 mem=512M@0xA0000000
<rsalveti> if you're just building, no problem
<janimo> from the bugreport
<ogra_> right,
<rsalveti> you can get everything for you
<rsalveti> janimo: that would be the args we'd use at the netbook image
<rsalveti> so we can have everything working
<rsalveti> but for this test you can simply use 1g
<ogra_> ah, good
<janimo> rsalveti, but I can use 1G@0x80000000 on headless?
<rsalveti> janimo: yup
<janimo> or with not address at all even?
<janimo> rsalveti, ok thanks. Will do
<rsalveti> move?
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<ogra_> just pre-published for beta :)
<ogra_> nothing else to report ...
<ogra_> well
<ogra_> we need the TI icon back and dont have a bug for that yet
<GrueMaster> Why was it even removed?  It could have been left in place with nothing to install.
<ogra_> GrueMaster, persia insisted it shouldnt live in jasper
<ogra_> it was one of my items in the jasper rewrite spec
<ogra_> we have a package for it now, but i need to MIR it and see that i integrate the bits and pieces in jasper again
<ogra_> (since they live in different places now)
<NCommander> (can I move?)
<ogra_> sure
<GrueMaster> So, what should the bug be filed against?
<ogra_> GrueMaster, hmm, good question
<NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)
<ogra_> ti-omap4-software-channel is the new package
<GrueMaster> With all of the major changes just before Beta 1 release, a lot of deep testing has to be restarted.  Minimal testing was done for the release to ensure no major show-stopper bugs existed.
<rsalveti> tested omap 3 and omap 4 while doing the drm stuff and they seems fine
<GrueMaster> I have not had a chance to really deep dive into unity-2d or to see what other kernel issues I can dig up yet due to release testing.
<rsalveti> besides the audio issues and the display ones you saw
<GrueMaster> On a good note, banshee played (silently) through the night on my panda.
<GrueMaster> No crashes.
<ogra_> well, it did that before on my tegra :P
<ogra_> we just support the wrong smp HW it seems :)
<GrueMaster> I don't consider your tegra a valid test due to the ancient kernel & unsupported system.
<ogra_> system is the same as omap
<GrueMaster> As I was able to reproduce the crash on my tegra dev platform with a newer kernel.
<ogra_> but yeah, the kernel is old
<GrueMaster> That's all I have to report.
<ogra_> NCommander, ?
<NCommander> [topic] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<ogra_> specs ?
<ogra_> do we have a wikipage or something to collect them ?
<rsalveti> for uds?
<rsalveti> something we should start working on soon
<ogra_> yes
<ogra_> at least collect some rough ideas
<rsalveti> don't think we have a wiki for that yet
<davidm__> I have a request
<ogra_> hmm, usually persia sets up that stuff, but i dont think he has time for it atm
<davidm__> I'd like to see us document our final releases very well, what works, what does not any thing we have found out over the development time
<davidm__> have a specific web page, more then release notes
<davidm> make that wiki page
<rsalveti> make sense, would be good to have
<Guest93656> persia is having severe connectivity problems and I don't know when that will change
<ogra_> yeah
 * ogra_ wouldnt expect different
<GrueMaster> I should be able to start on that next week while I am temporarily layed up.
<rsalveti> action?
<ogra_> GrueMaster to create OnericIdeas wikipage :)
<ogra_> NCommander, ^^
<GrueMaster> Actually, I was referring to davidm's stuff.
<ogra_> how do we call the other one ?
<ogra_> oh, i was getting to that ;)
<ogra_> NattyKnownIssues ? NattyReleaseStresstested ?
<Guest93656> I think its specific to each SoC so we need an OMAP  3 Beagle and Beagle xm and an OMAP 4 Panada page
<GrueMaster> Natty Nigglets
<NCommander> [topic] GrueMaster to create OnericIdeas wikipage
<MootBot> New Topic:  GrueMaster to create OnericIdeas wikipage
<NCommander> er
<NCommander> [action GrueMaster to create OnericIdeas wikipage
<rsalveti> :-)
<Guest93656> Natty Image Status
<ogra_> natty niglets sounds nice ;)
<NCommander> [action] GrueMaster to create OnericIdeas wikipage
<MootBot> ACTION received:  GrueMaster to create OnericIdeas wikipage
<ogra_> NCommander, [action] everyone, add spec ideas to that wikipage
<NCommander> [action] everyone to add spec ideas to wikipage
<MootBot> ACTION received:  everyone to add spec ideas to wikipage
<Guest93656> NCommander, [ACTION] GrueMaster to document released images
<NCommander> [ACTION] GrueMaster to document released  images
<MootBot> ACTION received:  GrueMaster to document released  images
<NCommander> Anything else
<NCommander> or can I close the meeting?
<davidm> That was the main thing from me
<ogra_> nothing here
<davidm> finally I got my nick back
<rsalveti> ok by me
 * ogra_ finds it ok too that davidm got his nick back :)
<NCommander> closing in 3
<NCommander> 2
<NCommander> 1
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:49.
<emma> When is the next Ubuntu meeting?
<MichealH> emma: See /topic
<emma> Joeb454: are the Ubuntu meetings for the whole community still held in here?
<emma> MichealH: I did see the topic, the link there doesn't seem to have up to date info?
<IdleOne> The are
<IdleOne> they
<emma> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/
<emma> that takes me to an ubuntu-news page
<Ampelbein> emma: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar
<IdleOne> last one was on the 24th
<IdleOne> usually every two weeks iirc
<IdleOne> seems every week
<emma> right so that's not up to date as far as I know.
<emma> Oh I see you were saying "they are" to the question about whether the meetings are in here.
<emma> :)
<pleia2> emma: there are several meetings each day, what are you looking for specifically?
<IdleOne> err I was looking at the wrong page, sorry I literally still have smoke in my eyes
<pleia2> (and the link does correctly redirect, I'm not sure why you're not getting the calendar)
<emma> I would like take something that really bothers me to the Ubuntu Community beyond IRC.
<pleia2> so you're looking for a community council meeting?
<emma> Right.
<pleia2> according to that link the next one is april 5th at 20:00 UTC
<pleia2> it has a link to the agenda, etc
<pleia2> which you can add to
<IdleOne> next ircc meeting is April 9th https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda
<IdleOne> just in case you wanted that info also
<emma> is there a page like that for the community council?
<IdleOne> probably is
<pleia2> from the calendar: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<pleia2> emma: what page is it redirecting you to? I'm not sure why you can't see this :\
<IdleOne> link in topic goes to http://www.ubuntu-news.org/calendars/fridge/ and with a little reading it is pretty easy to find the info
<pleia2> yeah, she said it wasn't
<pleia2> (works for me too)
<IdleOne> but the first time I clicked on it directed me to a wiki with a template on how to create meeting pages
<IdleOne> so emma may have had the same experience
<pleia2> hmm, weird
<emma> Yes that is different this time.
<IdleOne> glitch in the matrix apparently
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-04-01
<laui> hey
 * skaet waves
 * charlie-tca will be observing today
<skaet> hi charlie-tca :)
<charlie-tca> Hello, skaet
 * joshuahoover waves
<Daviey> Hello!
<jibel> hi all!
<pitti> hello
<skaet> hi all,  looks like we're getting to quorum.  :)
<skaet> lets start it off then
<skaet> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is skaet.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<skaet> Thank you to everyone for the hard work over the last week to get those bugs fixed, and the beta 1 release out!
<skaet> Today is intended to just be a quick meeting to touch base and figure out if we have any issues.
<skaet> Leads:
<skaet>   - Format will be quick round table.
<skaet>   - Please share any status you have already prepared, but we're all
<skaet>     still assessing where we are post release, so don't stress if
<skaet>     nothing is ready.
<skaet>   - please just highlight:
<skaet>       - any help you need from other teams, or blockers
<skaet>       - any issues you are particularly worried about
<skaet>         for the release.
<skaet> ..
<skaet> questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Natty Release Schedule:
<skaet> Beta 1 freeze - was left as is on 3/24 - hard freeze
<skaet> Beta 1 release - 3/31
<skaet> Archive open for final bug fixes and FFEs 4/1 ->4/11 (at UTC 09:00)
<skaet> Beta 2 freeze - 4/11 (at UTC 09:00 ) - hard freeze
<MootBot> New Topic:  Natty Release Schedule:
<skaet> Beta 2 release - 4/14
<skaet> Kernel freeze - 4/14
<skaet> Main/Seeded Final Freeze 14 days (4/14->4/28)
<skaet> Unseeded Universe/Multiverse Freeze - 4/26 (at UTC 12:00)
<skaet> Unseeded Universe/Multiverse Final Freeze - 2 days (4/26->4/28)
<skaet> Natty release 4/28
<skaet> Oneiric archive setup for development 4/29
<skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyReleaseSchedule
<skaet> has been updated.
<Daviey> None here's
<victorp> o/
<skaet> victorp,  go
 * skaet trying to figure out what None here's means from Daviey...
<victorp> just wanted to say I am here
<skaet> ah,  ok.
<skaet> cool
<victorp> I thought he meant noone was here :)
<MrChrisDruif> What?
<Daviey> (typo. Sorry)
<skaet> anyone have concerns about the schedule for remaining month?
<skaet> or questions?
<pitti> looks fine to me
<skaet> ok.
<skaet> will let folks have a chance to comment at the end,  and lets move on to the round tables.
<skaet> [Topic] QA team update -  jibel
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA team update -  jibel
<jibel> hi
<MrChrisDruif> Hai jibel
<skaet> hi
<jibel> Natty Beta-1 Work Items
<jibel> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/cloud-server-n-uec-qa
<jibel> hggdh still blocked due to lack of working UEC since after Alpha 2. Blocked on Critical bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/746751
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 746751 in linux (Ubuntu) "kernel: [Firmware Bug]: the BIOS has corrupted hw-PMU resources (MSR 38d is 30)" [Critical,New]
<jibel>  * Natty boot regression report
<jibel> http://people.canonical.com/~brian/daily-bootcharts/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~brian/daily-bootcharts/
<jibel> New bug reports:
<jibel> http://launchpad.net/bugs/745252
<jibel> http://launchpad.net/bugs/745256
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://launchpad.net/bugs/745252
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://launchpad.net/bugs/745256
<Daviey> Hmm. Is this up to date?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 745252 in The Ubuntu Boot Speed Project "Certification System 201011-6750 boots 12.49 seconds slower" [Undecided,New]
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 745256 in The Ubuntu Boot Speed Project "Certification System 201101-7164 boots 6.68 seconds slower" [Undecided,New]
<jibel> Daviey, you mean blocked on 746751 ?
<jibel> hggdh, ? ^
<Daviey> Yes.
<jibel> Daviey, lets continue with boot regression reports and hggdh will reply once he's here
 * skaet nods
<jibel> New bug reports then:
<jibel> http://launchpad.net/bugs/745257
<jibel> http://launchpad.net/bugs/745266
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://launchpad.net/bugs/745257
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://launchpad.net/bugs/745266
<jibel> http://launchpad.net/bugs/745274
<jibel> http://launchpad.net/bugs/745276
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://launchpad.net/bugs/745274
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://launchpad.net/bugs/745276
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 745257 in The Ubuntu Boot Speed Project "Certification System 201101-7174 boots 28.63 seconds slower" [Undecided,New]
<jibel>  * QA Dashboard
<jibel>  http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/qadashboard/qadashboard.html
<jibel>  linux, unity, compiz, software-center are in both last day and last 7 days top 5
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 745266 in The Ubuntu Boot Speed Project "Certification System 201101-7183 boots 4.28 seconds slower" [Undecided,New]
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 745274 in The Ubuntu Boot Speed Project "Certification System 201101-7184 boots 12.90 seconds slower" [Undecided,New]
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 745276 in The Ubuntu Boot Speed Project "Certification System 201101-7185 boots 23.39 seconds slower" [Undecided,New]
<jibel>  * Testing status:
<jibel>  Desktop Automated Testing results
<jibel> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/desktop-testing/natty/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/desktop-testing/natty/
<jibel>    2D: 79% pass
<jibel>    Unity: 76% pass
<jibel> List of bugs found is at the bottom of page.
<jibel> lots of false positive, I'll do a review next week.
<jibel>  Server Automated Testing results
<jibel>  http://204.236.234.12/view/ISO-server-Natty/?
<jibel>  0 failures
<jibel>  Desktop and Alternate Image Testing results
<jibel>  http://204.236.234.12:8080/view/natty-desktop/?
<jibel>  Alternate test failures under investigation (test times out, need to be reproduce locally)
<jibel> but obviously it passed iso testing.
<jibel>  Automatic Upgrade Testing
<jibel> http://people.canonical.com/~mvo/automatic-upgrade-testing/current/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~mvo/automatic-upgrade-testing/current/
<jibel>  * mythubuntu has a udevadm crash during the upgrade this is why the post-upgradet test fails
<jibel>  * python-all has some python import failures, but they look like false positives mostly, mvo will dig into that
<jibel>  * bug 744831: main-all has a file overwrite problem with the langpacks that is fix-commited
<jibel>  * and bug 746978 , a failure in ant-gcj (memory corruption) that looks nasty
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 744831 in language-pack-as (Ubuntu Natty) "file overwrite error on upgrade from maverick -> natty" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/744831
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 746978 in gcj-4.4 (Ubuntu Natty) "maverick -> natty upgrade post inst failure: gcj-dbtool-4.4 assert failure: *** glibc detected *** gcj-dbtool-4.4: malloc(): memory corruption: 0x09ed18e0 ***" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/746978
<jibel> NVIDIA Unity Testing
<jibel>  * Nvidia drivers Unity testing
<jibel> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/graphics_testing/natty/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/graphics_testing/natty/
<jibel> And last but not least
<jibel> Natty Beta 1 ISO Testing
<jibel>  62 contributors have provided 449 results and covered 278 testcases
<jibel>     * Image Coverage : 100.00% (76/76)
<jibel>     * Mandatory Test Cases : 99.57% (233/234)
<jibel>     * Run Once Test Cases : 93.18% (41/44)
<jibel>     * Overall : 98.56% (274/278)
<jibel> Failures summary
<jibel>     * 84 bugs have been reported affecting a total of 90 test cases.
<jibel>     * 61 test cases failed.
<jibel>     * Failure Rate: 22.26% (61/274)
<jibel> full report available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ReleaseReports/NattyBeta1TestReport
<jibel> ..
<skaet> Thanks jibel!!
<skaet> excellent data there,  I'll be digesting it and asking questions over next couple of days.
<skaet> Thanks to all folks that helped out with the testing!
<skaet> impressive stats.
<skaet> any one have specific questions?
<cjwatson> the udevadm crash may be the same one ScottK noticed in a server upgrade?
<cjwatson> (it was a bit opaque to me ...)
<ScottK> Let me know if there's anything I can provide that would help.
 * skaet figures jibel's doing some cross checking,  and will move on  and let him reply later
<skaet> [Topic] Hardware Certification team update - victorp
<MootBot> New Topic:  Hardware Certification team update - victorp
<victorp> here we go!
<victorp> Weekly Testing notes:
<victorp> *********************************************************************
<victorp> * Certification lab is currently full, lab hw has been ordered for expansion.
<victorp> Weekly testing report:
<victorp> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/hw-testing/current
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/hw-testing/current
<victorp> Some issues:
<victorp>  * The bug about the Tecra R700 not suspending/resuming properly is
<victorp> still outstanding:
<victorp> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/708286
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/708286
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 708286 in linux (Ubuntu) "Resume after suspend not working - Toshiba Tecra R700" [Undecided,New]
<victorp>  * Some Lenovo laptops are freezing during install from the network, but will install normally with other installation media
<victorp>  * Checkbox is failing to submit results on some system, investigation ongoing
<victorp> **********************************************************************
<victorp> ..
<cjwatson> ScottK: thanks
<skaet> thanks victorp!
<skaet> question?
<victorp> skaet, btw - next week we will be doing a full run using beta1
<skaet> how did the results look from testing beta 1?
<skaet> heh
<skaet> what did the sniff tests show?
<skaet> any concerns?
<victorp> that is what was on the link
<victorp> it will take us 1/2 weeks to finish a full run including manual test
<victorp> so that will be the update for next week
<skaet> ok,  can I ask you send the information out to the leads, as soon as results are in?
 * hggdh is in now
 * skaet doesn't want to loose a couple of days of fixing time waiting for meeting.
<skaet> victorp,  ^ ??
<victorp> skaet, sure
<skaet> thanks!
<victorp> skaet, any bugs will be raised as we test
<skaet> [ACTION] victorp to broadcast hardware cert results as soon as finish runs.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  victorp to broadcast hardware cert results as soon as finish runs.
<skaet> thanks victorp,  please flag me directly any you're particularily worried about,  as they emerge.
<skaet> :)
<skaet> any other questions?
<skaet> [Topic] Security team update - jdstrand
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security team update - jdstrand
 * skaet looks around and doesn't see jdstrand,....
<skaet> moving on
<skaet> [Topic] Kernel team update - ogasawara
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel team update - ogasawara
<ogasawara> Overall status is reported at the first link below.  Burn down for the release milestone is at the second link below.  Burndown for the cycle is at the third link:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-11.04-beta-2.html
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-11.04-beta-2.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<ogasawara> The single beta-2 work item we have is not release critical and should move to completion upon apw's return.  We just uploaded the linux-2.6.38-8.40 kernel which pulls in the latest 2.6.38.2 stable updates.  We've also packaged and uploaded linux-backports-modules-2.6.38 which contains an updated igb driver.  With Kernel Freeze on the horizon, I only anticipate 1-2 more uploads beyond what we have now.
<ogasawara> An update on the bugs noted in the agenda is as follows:
<ogasawara> #539467 SATA alpm is now disabled in userspace, possible fix for Nvidia mcp65 controllers when in minimal power mode has been tested with positive feedback; Those still experiencing issues but with a different controller have been instructed to file new bugs.
<ogasawara> #542660 testing with v2.6.38 final still problematic, needs further investigation.
<ogasawara> #625364 some comments indicate this has been resolved with a recent kernel update.  Still waiting confirmation from the original bug reporter.  Other subscribers/reporters may have a slightly different issue and confirmed that switching to vt1 and back on suspend mitigates the issue.  Looking at using the pm-utils quirks for those machine;
<ogasawara> #630748 iwlwifi driver is now split and Intel affirms 802.11n should work.  iwl3945 is no longer supported and will never have a functional 802.11n mode.  iwlagn 802.11n disablement has been removed from module-init-tools.  I'd consider this bug closed.
<ogasawara> #707353 Fix released in linux-firmware-1.49.
<ogasawara> #712075 partial fix in place, testing requested with 2.6.38 final kernel;
<ogasawara> #634487 Kernel dev able to reproduce, currently under further investigation.
<ogasawara> Questions?
<ogasawara> ..
<skaet> Thanks ogasawara!
<skaet> what is the status on: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/746751
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 746751 in linux (Ubuntu) "kernel: [Firmware Bug]: the BIOS has corrupted hw-PMU resources (MSR 38d is 30)" [Critical,New]
<hggdh> skaet: we went as far as we could; currently blocked again
<skaet> thanks hggdh.
<ogasawara> skaet: hrm, this is the first I've seen of this, will have to investigate
<tgardner> skaet, looks ugly.
<tgardner> ogasawara, its only 18 hours old
<skaet> ogasawara, tgardner - thanks! wanted to make sure it was on the radar.
<tgardner> I'll see if I can get jjohansen to look at it.
<skaet> sounds good.
<skaet> any other questions for the kernel team?
<skaet> [Topic] Foundations team update - cjwatson
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations team update - cjwatson
<cjwatson> Apologies for short update, I've been hiding in a cave for the last two days working on bug 742967 (nearly done).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 742967 in grub2 (Ubuntu Natty) "Natty Wubi grub prompt on install" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/742967
<cjwatson> ISO testing bugs had a few general themes:
<cjwatson> - Lots of people reported language pack installation problems (collected in bug 741304, fix committed).
<cjwatson> - There have been a variety of reports of problems with selecting keyboard layouts.
<cjwatson> - It turns out that the partner repository was unintentionally enabled by default by a change early in Natty.
<cjwatson> - There are a handful of workflow problems around the new automatic partitioning system.
<cjwatson> - Various upgrade issues, which I confess I haven't yet looked into and am trusting mvo to be on top of. :-)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 741304 in OEM Priority Project "Language packs are not being installed for selected languages during oem-config" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/741304
<cjwatson> Oh, and I think the brokenness of iSCSI is down to us to fix.
<cjwatson> ..
<skaet> Thanks cjwatson!
<skaet> good summary - that was what I was looking to understand.
<cjwatson> this ISO testing round was actually not too bad, I thought.
<cjwatson> (I've seen worse)
<robbiew> (me too)
<ScottK> Did wubi get sorted or is it still broken?
<cjwatson> it's still broken but I've figured out the problem
<ScottK> Cool.
<cjwatson> the 'loopback' command in grub leaves a dangling freed pointer around if you call it twice
<ScottK> Nice.
<skaet> cjwatson,  all,   thanks for that perspective.  ;-)
<skaet> any other questions?
<skaet> [Topic] Server team update - Daviey
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server team update - Daviey
<Daviey> I have nothing significant to report... bug 717166 should be fixed, which is waiting for extending testing results
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 717166 in eucalyptus (Ubuntu Natty) "Broken with v4 isc-dhcp-server in Natty" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/717166
<Daviey> The bugs coming in post beta1 are slow, which could indicate success.. or, as i suspect, lack of wide spread testing.
<Daviey> However, the test cases we have - look positive.
<Daviey> ...
<ScottK> Getting early testing with server is always hard.
<skaet> thanks Daviey?
<skaet> what is out look on UEC getting working again?
<skaet> hmm,  will let Daviey come back to us later then,  and move on.
<skaet> [Topic] Desktop team update - pitti
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop team update - pitti
<hggdh> skaet: right now I would say depends on what is found for bug 746751; what we found yesterday was the 717166 was fixed, but the vast majority of instances failed to start due to the new bug
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 746751 in linux (Ubuntu) "kernel: [Firmware Bug]: the BIOS has corrupted hw-PMU resources (MSR 38d is 30)" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/746751
<pitti> General status:
<pitti>   * unity a11y: Now defaults to the classic GNOME session for the a11y profiles which need screen reading; this means the remaining Unity a11y issues are now out of the critical path.
<pitti>   * No major incoming bug wave from beta-1 for us yet -- usually that hits us on Monday (most users wait for the weekend)
<pitti> Blueprint implementation:
<pitti>  * On track for entire cycle
<Daviey> skaet, It is currently looking positive
<pitti>  * Some beta-1 WIs were left; important ones moved to beta-2, opportunistic stuff postponed to oneiric
<pitti>  * Remaining work for Natty:
<Daviey> hggdh, raised some concerns about the EBS feature
<Daviey> but it's too early to indicate
<pitti>   * [packageselection-desktop-n-firefox-4] Some remaining porting to xulrunner-2.0/webkit
<Daviey> we had really good intiial success, based on unoffical packages (which are now in the archive)
<pitti>   * Some remaining upgrade migration for deprecated applets
<Daviey> (sorry, interwebs are playing up at the moment)
<pitti>   * Various "test that this works", discuss user testing
<pitti> RC bugs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus#rcbugs
<pitti>  * No blockers, nothing major to point out
<pitti> ..
<skaet> Thanks pitti
<skaet> yup Daviey we see you,  just delayed
<Daviey> skaet, sorry, i'm suffering on my internet connection at the moment.
<skaet> thanks hggdh.
 * skaet nods - have been there
<skaet> no worries
<skaet> Things look good for now then, from desktop perspective - nice to know pitti.
<skaet> Thanks!
<skaet> any questions?
<pitti> skaet: well, wait until Monday :)
<skaet> yup
<pitti> skaet: but today's unity upload was a major improvement
<pitti> no crashes any more \o/
 * skaet looking forward to trying it out this afternoon.
<skaet> no more crashes....  ??  fingers crossed.
<ogra_> pfft, unity-2d is stable since weeks :P
<skaet> lol
<skaet> [Topic] Ubuntu One Team - joshuahoover
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu One Team - joshuahoover
<pitti> but in 2d, all bugs are flat
<joshuahoover> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/NattyReleaseStatus
<ogra_> lol
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/NattyReleaseStatus
<joshuahoover> details on where we're at with our natty work and releases are in the link above
<joshuahoover> we have a UI related FFE for the u1 music store (libubuntuone) that came up yesterday & needs approval: bug #733327 - i sent emails to both doc and translator lists and haven't heard any objections so far - code should be landing today or monday...not sure if this falls within the doc string freeze on april 7th or ui freeze, so we filed it just in case
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 733327 in libubuntuone "[UI FFE] Notify user of missing MP3 support" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/733327
<joshuahoover> the list of bugs we're working on currently can be found in the link i posted earlier...all are on target for the beta2 milestone...our desktop+ team is having a sprint next week & the focus is on landing these fixes
<joshuahoover> and that's it for this week for u1 - questions?
<joshuahoover> --
<skaet> thanks joshuahoover !
<skaet> and thanks for taking care of the UI related FFE communication proactively.
<skaet> I'll digest the link info after....   best wishes for bugs being closed at the sprint.
<skaet> if no questions,  I'll move on.....
<skaet> [Topic] Kubuntu Team update - Riddell
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kubuntu Team update - Riddell
<ScottK> Riddell doesn't seem to be around today.
<ScottK> * Kubuntu had a generally very good Beta 1, there are a few issues:
<ScottK>  - Need to sort out why Kubuntu Mobile images failed to start on armel
<ScottK>  - Some stability issues on armel to investigate
<ScottK>  - No powerpc images booted (global problem TheMuso is working)
<ScottK> * Major pre-Beta 2 concerns
<ScottK>  - Need to finish the GL/GLES transition on armel (blocked on Avogadro, WIP)
<ScottK>  - Need to work with ubuntu-arm to see if we can still stand up the mx.51 and
<ScottK>    n900 images we'd hoped to get this cycle
<ScottK> ..
<skaet> thanks for stepping in ScottK!
<skaet> good summary,  answered what I was looking to understand.
<skaet> any one have questions?
<skaet> [Topic] Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth
<dbarth_> hi
<dbarth_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/NattyReleaseStatus for the usual report
<dbarth_> the summary of it being
<dbarth_> 84 bug fixes on unity this week, and 13 on foundations packages
<dbarth_> ffes:
<skaet> !!  :)
<dbarth_> a11y for places is being postponed to an sru or ppa
<dbarth_> scrollbar is in, thanks to the release team understanding
<dbarth_> MT related ffes for the mt stack and unity itself are being discussed
<dbarth_> and we're still receiving small last minute ui change requests, identified with https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bugs?field.tag=ffe
<dbarth_> ..
<skaet> thanks dbarth_ !
<skaet> are you blocked on any other teams in any way?   or all good?
<dbarth_> btw, new release of unity uploaded today; compiz will follow on monday
<dbarth_> not really blocked
<skaet> just lots of bugs to work through...  :)    nice job swatting those 84 down.
<dbarth_> mostly working our way through ffe requests and potential mt dependencies
<dbarth_> right
<dbarth_> thanks
<skaet> any other questions for dbarth_ ?
<skaet> [Topic] ARM team update - ogra
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM team update - ogra
<ogra_> me !
<skaet> :)
<ogra_> i didnt prepare the wiki today, sorry for that
<ogra_> but ...
<ogra_> Bugs we focus on for b2:
<ogra_> Bug 747247 needs a main promotion of files that were split out from jasper-initramfs (sorry, massive oversight here, that should have happened earlier)
<ogra_> 746133 was forwarded to TI, it is the re-occurence of a maverick bug, possibly caused by using the same HDMI driver in natty now
<ogra_> 746137 page allocation failures on panda are currently being researched.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 747247 in ti-omap4-software-channel (Ubuntu Natty) "No TI icon in favorites on omap4 netbook images" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/747247
<ogra_> Bugs that definitely will need uploads:
<ogra_> for 746023 we are waiting for alsa-lib and pulseaudio patches from TI which should arrive early next week.
<ogra_> there is no solution for Bug 633227 in sight, though it would be good to have it fixed for natty, it seems to not be reproducable on all boards.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 633227 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu Natty) "instabilities with highmem activated" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/633227
<ogra_> unity 2d buglist for beta2:
<ogra_> https://launchpad.net/unity-2d/+milestone/3.8.2
<ogra_> and on a sidenote, mono was fixed by NCommander (who deserves a medal for countelss debugging hours)
<ogra_> ..
<skaet> Thanks ogra_ !   (and thanks NCommander for that mono fix!)
<skaet> ogra_,  could you please retarget bugs that aren't likely at this stage to be fixed for Natty to Oneiric,  so we can keep track of them, and make sure we can get them into release notes.
<ogra_> skaet, i thought i did that already
<ogra_> (retargeting)
<skaet> ogra_, if you've done that already.  cool.
 * skaet still has to do detailed pass....
<skaet> thanks
<skaet> any questions for ogra_ ?
<skaet> [Topic] MOTU team update - ScottK
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU team update - ScottK
<ScottK> Hello.
<ScottK> Nothing major to report.
<ScottK> The big Universe/Multiverse issue for beta 1 was Flash borkage on amd64
<ScottK> It's been fixed with another ia32-libs upload.
<ScottK> Still need work on closing out NBS and fixing FTBFS.
<ScottK> ..
<skaet> Thanks ScottK!
<skaet> glad the flash has been fixed.
<skaet> any one have questions?
<skaet> [Topic] Linaro update - JamieBennett
<MootBot> New Topic:  Linaro update - JamieBennett
<ScottK> I find the amount of dependence on flash and is32-libs somewhat amusing.
<JamieBennett> Beta released yesterday  :)
<skaet> :)
<JamieBennett> some good testing done, we have a few Panda issues with our kernel but nothing major
<JamieBennett> As for intersections, nothing to report this week
<JamieBennett> ..
<skaet> Thanks JamieBennett
<skaet> any questions?
<skaet> [Topic] any other kudos/comments/questions?
<MootBot> New Topic:  any other kudos/comments/questions?
<hggdh> skaet: do you want to go back to UEC?
<skaet> yes please
<hggdh> OK
<skaet> what's still outstanding?  and is there help needed to get it working?
<hggdh> yesterday we tested for 717166, which was blocking us completely. We had found the issue with Eucalyptus help; It seems indeed fixed
<hggdh> but almost immediately we were hit by the issue on 746751 -- with hallyn's help we sort of zeroed in a kernel issue
<hggdh> this indeed blocks us, no instances succeed
<hggdh> additionally, there is a doubt on EBS usage -- but we cannot test because 746751 blocks us
<hggdh> ..
<skaet> thanks for the summary.   ok,  so kernel team now has it on radar.   good.
<skaet> or at least as good as we can be until it gets fixed.     :/
<skaet> thank you.
<hggdh> you are welcome
<skaet> any other questions?   or things overlooked?
<skaet> ok,  will end now then...
<ScottK> Does that bug block all UEC usage or just on the hardware you happen to have?
 * skaet will wait for hggdh, or Daviey to answer before ending
<hggdh> ScottK: I very much suspect it is tied to the hardware, but is all I have; incidentally, this is a common hardware in the wide world
<ScottK> Sure.  I'm not trying to minimize the problem.
<hggdh> ScottK: oh I know that, but is *is* a good question, and I was actually starting to add it anyways :-)
<ScottK> It sounds like though, getting access to alternate hardware might be a way to get unblocked while the kernel issue is sorted.
<ScottK> skaet: ^^^
<hggdh> I agree
 * ScottK is done.
 * hggdh is also done
<skaet> ScottK,  hggdh,   will work with robbiew about it offline then,  and see if we can find some options.
<skaet> thanks!
<skaet> and on that note...
<skaet> Thanks jibel, victorp, hggdh, cjwatson, ogasawara, tgardner, pitti, Daviey, joshuahoover, ScottK, dbarth_, ogra_, JamieBennett
<skaet> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:09.
<ogra_> thanks skaet
<joshuahoover> thanks skaet
<pitti> thanks all!
<hggdh> thanks all
<jibel> thanks skaet
<AlanBell> skaet: are you in London for the release?
<skaet> AlanBell, yup,  plan to be.
<AlanBell> awesome
<AlanBell> think I volunteered you for something
<pleia2> voluntelling++
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-03-26
<mdeslaur> \o
<tyhicks> Hello
<sbeattie> o/
<jdstrand> hi!
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Mar 26 18:03:22 2012 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<jdstrand> If you haven't done so already, please book your travel and register for UDS this week
<jdstrand> * thanks
<jdstrand> thanks to Melissa Draper (elky) provided debdiffs for lucid-oneiric for mahara (LP: #958841)
<jdstrand> Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job! :)
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I've got a short week this week and next
<jdstrand> I am off Thu-Tue and will be back on Apr 4
<jdstrand> I'm on community this week
<jdstrand> I also am patch piloting (already done this morning)
<jdstrand> MIR audit catch-ups continue, though more keep being added
<jdstrand> I think I see the light at the end of the tunnel, but I doubt I'll do much of anything else this week
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm currently testing ca-certificates-java updates, which I'll probably release tomorrow
<mdeslaur> I've started working on packaging the new mysql releases with unclear security fixes
<jdstrand>  /o\
<mdeslaur> I'm in the happy place
<mdeslaur> and I'll pick something from the list of I have time
<mdeslaur> that's it from me
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm in the happy place this week
<sbeattie> I'm working on fixing apparmor user space bugs
<sbeattie> and reviewing jjohansen1's patches as they come along.
<sbeattie> I think that's pretty much it for me.
<sbeattie> micahg: you're it
<micahg> I've got chromium to test, icedtea regression, thunderbird 11 transition and webkit, webkit should be releasing 1.8.x final tarballs so, so there should be branch stability
<mdeslaur> icedtea regression?
<micahg> that firefox crash from weeks ago
<mdeslaur> ah
<jdstrand> micahg: are you blocked on that?
<micahg> jdstrand: well, the patch doesn't apply cleanly, but I think I"ve got it now
<micahg> that's it for me if there are no more questions
<sbeattie> micahg: let me know if you want me to look at anything
<micahg> sbeattie: I will, thanks
 * tyhicks will go now
<tyhicks> I'm handling triage this week
<tyhicks> I've fallen a little behind on responding to things in the eCryptfs bug tracker and this is the last week of the kernel merge window, so I'll spend some time making sure everything is in shape in regards to those two things.
<tyhicks> I just merged 10 updates to the eCryptfs test suite from cking
<tyhicks> and I'll be focusing on getting the gnutls update out
<tyhicks> I think that is it for me
<cking> thanks tyhicks
<tyhicks> thank you, cking!
<tyhicks> jjohansen1: You're up
<jjohansen1> I need to post of the kernel patch for Bug #963756
<jjohansen1> finish debugging part 3 of the patches for Bug #959560
<jjohansen1> add some new mount regression tests
<jjohansen1> publish a few USNs and
<jjohansen1> go on vacation spring break vacation with the kids for most of the week
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 963756 in apparmor (Ubuntu) "aa_change_onexec fails with permission denied" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/963756
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 959560 in AppArmor "deny mount does not work correctly" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/959560
<mdeslaur> jjohansen1: when are you leaving?
<jjohansen1> mdeslaur: I am off tues, wed, thurs
<mdeslaur> jjohansen1: ok, cool
<jjohansen1> oh and I suppose finish updating the mount rules docs for the recent changes.  And hrmm I guess point jdstrand and sbeattie at them so they can revise them
<jjohansen1> jdstrand: your up
<jjohansen1> or back to you that is
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ldap-account-manager.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/reseed.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/hypermail.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/citadel.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/masqmail.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: I forgot to ask if you could lead next week's meeting
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: sure!
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: thanks :)
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<mdeslaur> nope
<sbeattie> not from me
<jjohansen1> nope
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, micahg, tyhicks, jjohansen: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Mar 26 18:28:49 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-26-18.03.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-26-18.03.html
<jjohansen1> thanks jdstrand
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thank you!
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
<micahg> thanks jdstrand
<kilian> hi
<bkerensa> =o
<Sweetshark> am i right here for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda ?
<tumbleweed> yes
<tumbleweed> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> bdrung, cody-somerville, Laney, micahg, barry, tumbleweed, stgraber: DMB ping
<Laney> yep
<Laney> no cinema for me :(
 * stgraber waves
<micahg> o/
<bdrung> o/
<cody-somerville> Hi Folks.
<tumbleweed> poor Laney
<cody-somerville> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Mar 26 19:03:17 2012 UTC.  The chair is cody-somerville. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<adam_g> o/
<cody-somerville> [topic] Review of previous action items: cody-somerville to write some documentation on how to endorse someone
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review of previous action items: cody-somerville to write some documentation on how to endorse someone
<cody-somerville> Sadly, this still isn't done. I've written some stuff up so might just end up sending what I have to dmb mailing list so that someone else can pick up on this instead of it continuing to block on me.
<cody-somerville> Apologies to the rest of the council on the delay on this.
<cody-somerville> Any questions on this action item before we move on?
<tumbleweed> not from me
<Laney> please do, that would be appreciated
<cody-somerville> From the looks of it, the rest of the action items on the agenda are complete. Does anyone wish to discuss any of them specifically?
<cody-somerville> [topic] MOTU Applications: Kilian Krause
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: MOTU Applications: Kilian Krause
<cody-somerville> kilian, Hello Kilian. Could you please introduce yourself and your application for MOTU?
<kilian> hi cody-somerville
<micahg> cody-somerville: I believe adam_g was first
<cody-somerville> adam_g, Sorry. We'll get to you next.
<adam_g> np
<kilian> as already laid out on the wiki page I'm a DD who would like to more intensely contribute to Ubuntu
<cody-somerville> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KilianKrause/DeveloperApplication
<cody-somerville> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KilianKrause/DeveloperApplication
<kilian> right ;-)
<kilian> I've had a number of packages that I sponsored to Debian which I felt were good in enough shape for both Debian and Ubuntu so here I am asking whether the fake sync is the way to go or what we can do about direct upload right...
<Laney> What experience do you have in directly contribution to Ubuntu?
<Laney> contributing ...
<kilian> Laney: I've just had a couple of security uploads into ubuntu for one of my Debian packages and I'm using LTS at work
<kilian> Laney: so I fairly well know what release schedule to follow for I need it at work anyway ..
<Laney> Right. Since you're a DD I am not so concerned about your packaging skills so I just want to probe at your knowledge of Ubuntu processes
<kilian> Laney: and yes it was a coleague of me and I who introduced Ubuntu as a second enterprise distro so I'm all for not letting it down
<Laney> Do you know about our various freezes?
<cody-somerville> kilian, What is DIF? When would you apply for an exception? How would you apply?
<Laney> a DIF exception?
<kilian> dif is a debian import freeze
 * Laney doesn't know what that is :P
<kilian> i.e. when no direct sync will happen any more
<kilian> an exception would logically be a security upload or major broken version that's fixed with the next upload
<kilian> obviously not an exception would be all "just eye candy" stuff that can easily wait for the next release and has no relevant impact on the user experience
<tumbleweed> kilian: you can still sync after DIF, they just don't happen automatically
<kilian> tumbleweed: let's put it that way, I'd try to have my stuff in before
<kilian> tumbleweed: but in a way, it very much remind me of Debian Freeze for Testing
<tumbleweed> doing stuff after DIF really isn't anything to worry about, either
<kilian> tumbleweed: sure
<tumbleweed> Final Freeze is closer to Debian Freeze
<bdrung> kilian: until when can you upload new packages or new upstream releases to ubuntu?
<kilian> bdrung: i don't get that question
<kilian> sorry
<cody-somerville> kilian, Do you hang out in any Ubuntu IRC channels?
<tumbleweed> kilian: bdrung is asking that in terms of the release schedule
<kilian> cody-somerville: eventually, time permitting.. but usually only to get stuff fixed that doesn't work for me
<bdrung> kilian: until which date do you need to get a new upstream release into ubuntu to ship it with the next release?
<bdrung> kilian: are you subscribed to Ubuntu's mailing lists?
<kilian> tumbleweed, bdrung: at the totally latest - the release date (but that's assuming a very large security flaw)
<kilian> bdrung: sure, like ubuntu-security
<tumbleweed> kilian: right, but without bureocracy?
<Laney> ubuntu-devel-announce is one you should be on
<tumbleweed> *bureaucracy
<bdrung> kilian: i was talking about new upstream release, i.e. new features
<kilian> Laney: right
<Laney> the guys are asking you what the last date for a 'normal' featureful upload is
<Laney> i.e. one for which you do not have to seek approval
<kilian> bdrung: IIRC that was 10 days like in unstable
<kilian> before freeze and hard freeze of course
<Laney> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule
<Laney> we're talking about Feature Freeze. After this date, uploads should be bug fix only unless you have an exception from the release team
<kilian> Laney: sure
<Laney> anyone else?
<tumbleweed> kilian: are you intending to use your MOTU rights for packages that you already maintain in Debian or are you interested in wider QA efforts?
<kilian> tumbleweed: I would naturally focus on my packages the most but as far as my commitment to Debian mentors permits I'd also lend those packages a helpnig hand - including also helping fixing those up I use at work where I find them not doing what they should
<kilian> (like writing LP bugs and seeing what the current maintainers needs - if that's an upload that'd be fine with me)
<kilian> "maintainer" in the sense of the last upload or most common uploader naturally
<bdrung> kilian: imagine you have uploaded a new version of a package to debian. how do you get that version into ubuntu?
<kilian> bdrung: if there's a BZR repo by putting it in there or otherwise with a source-only upload as opposed to a sourceful (but binary) upload in Debian
<kilian> s/or/and/
<bdrung> kilian: what would you do if there is no source change needed for ubuntu?
<kilian> bdrung: i don't quite get that.. if the ubuntu version is derived from the debian version and I've just put new stuff in - how could the ubuntu version not need it?
<kilian> bdrung: other than I've derived my debian update from the ubnntu version
<cody-somerville> Unfortunately, I have to unexpectedly jet. Kudos to tumbleweed for picking up the rest of the meeting as chair.
<cody-somerville> #unchair
<meetingology> Current chairs: cody-somerville
<cody-somerville> #chair tumbleweed
<meetingology> Current chairs: cody-somerville tumbleweed
<cody-somerville> #unchair
<meetingology> Current chairs: cody-somerville tumbleweed
<cody-somerville> #unchair cody-somerville
<meetingology> Current chairs: cody-somerville tumbleweed
<cody-somerville> lol
<Laney> If the Ubuntu package is equal to the Debian one and you then upload a new Debian revision after the automatic imports have ceased (i.e after DIF)
<tumbleweed> #unchair cody-somerville
<meetingology> Current chairs: cody-somerville tumbleweed
<Laney> haha.
<tumbleweed> nope. not gonna happne
<Sweetshark> meetingology seems to be rather strongminded.
<meetingology> Sweetshark: Error: "seems" is not a valid command.
<kilian> Laney: depends on the change.. like said above I could discuss whether the change would warrant an upload after DIF
<bdrung> kilian: assume it warrants an upload
<kilian> Laney: then seek confirmation with ubuntu-dev and go ahead if permitted
<kilian> but still that doesn't get me to that point where the ubuntu package doesn't need the update like plotted before
<bdrung> kilian: would you then upload the source package of debian to ubuntu?
<kilian> bdrung: depends on the version currently in ubuntu
<kilian> bdrung: most probably introduce a new version number first and then upload
<bdrung> kilian: assume that you have uploaded a new version of portaudio19 to Debian.
<kilian> bdrung: ok
<tumbleweed> guys, I think we need to wrap this up and move to a vote
<tumbleweed> bdrung: are you almost finished?
<bdrung> kilian: what i asked for: if ubuntu made no changes to the debian package, new version can be _synced_
<kilian> bdrung: of course
<bdrung> kilian: what is the difference between a sync and a normal ubuntu upload?
<kilian> the sync is the pure debian source upload
<kilian> i.e. unchanged with identical version number
<kilian> (like with portaudio19)
<tumbleweed> ok, bdrung is done
<kilian> whereas a regular ubuntu upload has another version (and potentially a diff beyond just debian/changelog)
<tumbleweed> #vote Should we grant kilian MOTU rights?
<meetingology> Please vote on: Should we grant kilian MOTU rights?
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<bdrung> kilian: yes, but a sync is done by launchpad and normally not a source upload by a developer
<tumbleweed> #voters bdrung tumbleweed laney micahg cody-somerville barry stgraber
<meetingology> Current voters: barry bdrung cody-somerville laney micahg stgraber tumbleweed
<tumbleweed> +0 [ I think kilian needs some more experience with sponsored uploads in Ubuntu before getting component-wide privileges ]
<meetingology> +0 [ I think kilian needs some more experience with sponsored uploads in Ubuntu before getting component-wide privileges ] received from tumbleweed
<barry> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from barry
<stgraber> +0 [I don't doubt the packaging knowledge but I'd like to see more Ubuntu-specific experience through sponsoring]
<meetingology> +0 [I don't doubt the packaging knowledge but I'd like to see more Ubuntu-specific experience through sponsoring] received from stgraber
<bdrung> -1 i recommend to do some syncs / uploads through sponsors to get more familiar with the Ubuntu procedures and differences
<meetingology> -1 i recommend to do some syncs / uploads through sponsors to get more familiar with the Ubuntu procedures and differences received from bdrung
<micahg> +0 echo what tumbleweed, bdrung, and stgraber said
<meetingology> +0 echo what tumbleweed, bdrung, and stgraber said received from micahg
<tumbleweed> Laney?
<Laney> -1 The discussion has highlighted a lack of knowledge about Ubuntu procedures. I'd recommend sticking around for a while and taking a direct involvement in your Debian packages in Ubuntu (through sponsors on this side) to gain the experience required.
<Laney> Bot.
<tumbleweed> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Should we grant kilian MOTU rights?
<meetingology> Votes for:0 Votes against:1 Abstentions:4
<meetingology> Motion denied
<tumbleweed> Laney: err he might be case sensitive
<Laney> must be
<tumbleweed> kilian: I'm sorry that the result came otu this way. I strongly recommend using sponsors for a handful of uploads and re-applying
<Laney> kilian: If you hang around in #ubuntu-motu and get some stuff sponsored you'll very quickly get the knowledge we're looking for
<tumbleweed> who's next? adam_g?
<adam_g> o/
<barry> kilian: stick with it, and thanks for your contributions to ubuntu!
<Laney> there's no meeting after us, so we can run over a bit if we need to and everyone can stick around
<tumbleweed> #topic ubuntu-server-dev application for Adam Gandelman
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ubuntu-server-dev application for Adam Gandelman
<tumbleweed> oops, and MOTU too
<tumbleweed> we'll vote on them separately
<tumbleweed> adam_g: care to introduce yourself?
<tumbleweed> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AdamGandelman/UbuntuServerDevApplication
<adam_g> i'm adam, i work on the ubuntu server team at canonical. i help maintain the server package set with a f
<adam_g> ocus on the many openstack components, through sponsorship up until now.  i'm seeking MOTU + upload righ
<adam_g> ts to the server package set. i'm also applying for membership to the ubuntu-server-dev team, which the
<adam_g> DMB owns. a number of packaging branches I work on are hosted there.
<Laney> membership in the server-dev team gives you rights to the server package set
<Laney> they're granted together
<adam_g> Laney: i see! didn't know they came together
<tumbleweed> any questions for adam_g?
<stgraber> adam_g: are you subscribed to ubuntu-devel-announce and read it daily?
<Laney> adam_g: do you see any solution to your "What I like least in Ubuntu" issue?
<Laney> if you see such a problematic package do you raise it with the developers involved?
<adam_g> stgraber: Hmm, it appears i am not. i am subscribed to ubuntu-devel, and follow threads there daily
<stgraber> adam_g: please subscribe to ubuntu-devel-announce now then, that's where freezes are announced and it's a must read for anyone who has upload rights
<adam_g> Laney: yes, i have been trying to ensure a higher level of quality in the packages i touch, either thru fixing the issues myself or doing my best to encourage better practices of those who may no longer seek sponshorship review
<adam_g> stgraber: definitely will do, thanks
<Laney> some developers call out mistakes on ubuntu-devel when they see them
<Laney> do you think that's a good idea?
<barry> adam_g: what do you think is the biggest cause for the wide disparity in packaging practices?
<adam_g> Laney: if its some general pattern of bad practices among certain packages, its probably a good idea. though, id prefer to reach out to specific developers personally first, to avoid singling any one person out on a public list
<adam_g> barry: lack of peer review, probably, for developers who are no longer required to seek sponsorship for their work
<adam_g> barry: we've been tyring to solve this issue around the openstack packages this sycle, by setting up staging packaging branches where we can collobarte on changes before they make it the ubuntu branches
<bdrung> adam_g: are there tools that helps raising the quality of a package?
<stgraber> adam_g: (reply when you're done with the current questions): let's say you have ubuntu-server upload rights and want to upload lxc later this afternoon, can you do it and if not, why?
<adam_g> bdrung: well, there's lintian, but that can only test so much.  im perhaps overly paranoid and do my best to physically install packages i touch, to confirm my changes,  even for trivial changes
<barry> adam_g: do you think that doing more code reviews before uploads would help with that (if it's due to laziness, or evolving best-practices), and if so would you encourage or force more reviews before uploads?
<bdrung> adam_g: another question for the question stack: Do you collaborate with Debian developers? Are you involved in Debian?
<adam_g> barry: i do think evolving the workflow to encourage that practice would help. at the same time ubuntu is too large to enforce it for every change against every package. there should be a good middle ground, i think
<adam_g> stgraber: im not certain lxc is part of the server seed, i would have to check. and im hestitant to touch such a complex package without confirmation from those that know it better htan me. in the case of lxc, even if i had upload rights i'd probably seek a +1 from someone who knows the pkg better than myself
<stgraber> adam_g: lxc is part of ubuntu-server
<Laney> how can you check if a package is seeded?
<stgraber> adam_g: assuming you just need to do a minimal change to it anyway, would you be allowed to upload it today?
<adam_g> Laney: there is a list of each package set, but my book for it eludes me atm
<stgraber> adam_g: (lxc just happens to be the best example of a specific kind of package that's in the ubuntu-server package set and that I want you to talk about ;))
<adam_g_> apologies, terminal dropped
<adam_g_> stgraber: i believe that i would be able to upload it
<stgraber> adam_g_: you'd technically be able to upload it indeed (as it's in your package set), now the release team (and me in particular) wouldn't be too happy about it, why?
<adam_g_> stgraber: because we are so late in the cycle
<stgraber> adam_g_: true but following that reasoning we wouldn't upload anything after feature freeze ;)
<stgraber> adam_g_: there's a specific reason why you shouldn't upload lxc until the 29th, any idea what it's?
<adam_g_> stgraber: of the top of my head, no im not sure
<stgraber> adam_g_: I'm hoping you're aware that we are currently in beta2 freeze right?
<adam_g_> stgraber: yes, i am.
<adam_g_> i had the pleasure of seeking +1 from an archive admin for a new binary package on Friday
<stgraber> ok, other DMB members are poking me to tell you why so I'll explain ;)
<stgraber> lxc is in the ubuntu-server packageset even though it's a universe package
<stgraber> some universe packages can be affected by a freeze too (not limited to main packages)
<stgraber> which is the case of lxc
<stgraber> as it's a dependecy of arkose
<stgraber> which is another universe package
<stgraber> itself seeded by edubuntu
<stgraber> and on the Edubuntu DVD media
<stgraber> so any upload of lxc would require a rebuild and retest of all the Edubuntu images
<adam_g_> that makes sense
<stgraber> that's why it's frozzen and why you should ask for the release team approval before uploading it until past-beta2
<stgraber> adam_g_: you can check it with "seeded-in-ubuntu lxc"
<stgraber> stgraber@castiana:~/data/code/ubiquity/ubiquity$ seeded-in-ubuntu lxc
<stgraber> lxc (from lxc) is seeded in: edubuntu: dvd
<adam_g_> stgraber: i see, i was not aware of that tool, thanks for the tip
<stgraber> adam_g_: 20:13 < Laney> also apt-cache show lxc | grep ^Task
<stgraber> (copy/pasting from another channel)
<stgraber> I'd highly recommend running these before any upload when the archive is frozzen (check #ubuntu-devel status and ubuntu-devel-announce to know when it's the case)
<adam_g_> i've been following the freeze closely this cycle, and as i said, have already run into an instance where archive admin approval was required. some of the tooling is still new to me, and knowing where to go for this informatio is invaluable, thanks stgraber
<micahg> adam_g_: are there any plans to collaborate with Debian on openstack packaging?
<adam_g_> micahg: yes, this process is still evolving as openstack in debian is quite new.  we've already done some work to reduce the delta on a couple of components (nova, keystone) and hope to be doing more collaboration moving forward.  i believe we'll be discussing this with the debian developers working on this stuff at the upcoming openstack design summit in april
<micahg> adam_g_: any plans to eventually have some stuff uploaded to Debian first as the desktop team does?
<bdrung> (and then just sync it from Debian)
<adam_g_> micahg: i'd love to get to that point. like i said, this is all evolving. the debian packages currently target a much wider configuration base than we can currently support in ubuntu. we've also been scrambling to keep pace with changes upstream in our packaging, going into LTS, that we haven't had the cycles to focus on that for precise
<micahg> adam_g_: I'm just glad it's being considered and worked towards, this is great news, thanks
<adam_g_> there are some other complications as well, but collaboration is definitely high on the TODO moving forward
<Laney> do you think you could get to the stage where there is one openstack team working on the same packages?
<Laney> i.e. with a shared VCS
<adam_g_> Laney: there is a lot of work todo, but that is the goal, or at least get to a point where changes we make get forwarded to debian immediately, instaed of baking in ubuntu till someone gets a free moment to sync everythign up
<Laney> it is my experience that cross-distro packaging teams are an excellent way to work, fwiw
<Laney> no more questions from me :-)
<tumbleweed> adam_g_: on the MOTU part of your application. Do you feel that you are a part of the MOTU team? Do you hang out on IRC with MOTU or have an interest in archive-wide QA?
<Laney> (on the server part)
<adam_g_> tumbleweed: i do hang in #ubuntu-motu, and have had experience touching universe packages. id certainly love to get more exposure to the rest of the archive and distro through more involvement in MOTU
<tumbleweed> do you have any ideas on how we can grow MOTU? We're a pretty tiny team, for so many packages
<tumbleweed> excuse the impossible question :P
<bdrung> and some MOTU are absorbed by other teams (like me)
<adam_g_> i'd suggest trying to make the learning curve less steap, through continued improvement to documenation, online classes, blogs, etc.
<adam_g_> but perhaps thats true of all ubuntu development, and not just MOTU
<Laney> some people have all of their energy sucked up by annoying things like immense transitions for obscure programming languages that nobody uses :P
<tumbleweed> (some people say they choose that for themselves)
<micahg> well, with MOTU and core-dev specifically, you're dealing with a wide range of packaging and upstreams, so you can't really make the curve less steep, for other things like packagesets and PPU, we can certainly try to streamline things
<Laney> "because it's there"
 * Sweetshark is shortly afk, phone. brb.
<Laney> Sweetshark: sorry, we'll get to you soon
<tumbleweed> ok, shall we wrap up the inquisition?
<adam_g_> micahg: my comment was more wrt ubuntu development and all of the great tools and processes that exist for making that kind of work easier. i sometimes feel like im finding out about an easter egg when i hear about tools like 'seeded-in-ubuntu' :)
<barry> adam_g_: i can sympathize :)
<Sweetshark> <- back
<tumbleweed> adam_g_: hopefully there are some more easter eggs for you in ubuntu-dev-tools & devscripts :)
<tumbleweed> ok, I'm not seeing anyone else jumping to ask questions
 * Laney has none
<tumbleweed> #vote should adam_g be added to the ubuntu-server team?
<meetingology> Please vote on: should adam_g be added to the ubuntu-server team?
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<tumbleweed> hopefully meetingology remembers the voters
<Laney> +1
<tumbleweed> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from tumbleweed
<Laney> :( it does :(
<tumbleweed> #voters bdrung tumbleweed Laney micahg cody-somerville barry stgraber
<meetingology> Current voters: Laney barry bdrung cody-somerville laney micahg stgraber tumbleweed
<Laney> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Laney
<barry> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from barry
<micahg> +1
<bdrung> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdrung
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg
<stgraber> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
<tumbleweed> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: should adam_g be added to the ubuntu-server team?
<meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<micahg> umm, that should be ubuntu-server-dev :)
<bdrung> adam_g_: re easter eggs: do you know wrap-and-sort and suspicious-source?
<tumbleweed> yes, that :)
<tumbleweed> adam_g_: congratulations, good luck with it
<Laney> something like dpkg -L devscripts | grep usr/bin | shuf | head -10
<adam_g_> bdrung: not until now, but wish i did. wrap-and-sort would have saved me quite a bit of time recently
<tumbleweed> are we going straight on to a MOTU vote or any more qeustions?
<adam_g_> tumbleweed: thanks
<bdrung> no questions from me
<Laney> one second
<stgraber> I think I'm ready to vote for MOTU based on the answers given before (once Laney is ready)
<Laney> adam_g_: looking at https://launchpad.net/~gandelman-a/+uploaded-packages I don't see many uploads outside of the server set that we just voted on. Do you have any other Universe activity that's not reflected there?
<Laney> be that community stuff or uploads that aren't shown for whatever reason
<adam_g_> Laney: hmm perhaps i do not, though i thought i did. ive helped with MIRs for various python library's promotion *out of* universe, if that counts :P
<tumbleweed> pish :)
<Laney> thanks, that's all
<tumbleweed> right, voting
<tumbleweed> #vote Should adam_g join MOTU?
<meetingology> Please vote on: Should adam_g join MOTU?
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<bdrung> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdrung
<tumbleweed> +0 From the questioning, I'm sure you have the skills, but I haven't seen the interest yet
<meetingology> +0 From the questioning, I'm sure you have the skills, but I haven't seen the interest yet received from tumbleweed
<stgraber> +0 [I'd like to see some more !server-package-set involvment and more interactions with the MOTU community]
<meetingology> +0 [I'd like to see some more !server-package-set involvment and more interactions with the MOTU community] received from stgraber
<Laney> +0 I don't question your technical skill, but I'd like to see some involvement with the community before giving a +1.
<meetingology> +0 I don't question your technical skill, but I'd like to see some involvement with the community before giving a +1. received from Laney
<micahg> +0 I think adam_g_ will make a fine MOTU, but would like to see some more work in that area
<meetingology> +0 I think adam_g_ will make a fine MOTU, but would like to see some more work in that area received from micahg
<barry> +1 i appreciated the dhpy2 transition you did and would like to see more stuff like that!
<meetingology> +1 i appreciated the dhpy2 transition you did and would like to see more stuff like that! received from barry
<tumbleweed> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Should adam_g join MOTU?
<meetingology> Votes for:2 Votes against:0 Abstentions:4
<meetingology> Motion carried
<tumbleweed> gaah, I can't remember how this works. Is the motion really carried?
<micahg> meetingology: apparently needs some help deciding what a good vote is :)
<meetingology> micahg: Error: "apparently" is not a valid command.
<micahg> tumbleweed: no
<tumbleweed> right, I thought so
<adam_g_> lol
 * Laney can't remember what the algorithm is
<tumbleweed> Laney: didn't you summarise it to the list?
<Laney> write once read none
<Laney> let's move on
<bdrung> the applicant need at least +4
<adam_g_> thanks all
 * tumbleweed finds https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-July/000956.html which was endorsed by the techboard
<stgraber> adam_g_: congrats for the ubuntu-server packageset and I'm sure we'll see you in a few months for MOTU
<tumbleweed> adam_g_: sorry, but we'll happily accept a reapplication from you with some uploads to wave at us
<adam_g_> sounds reasonable, thanks again
<tumbleweed> #topic PPU application for Bjoern Michaelsen
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: PPU application for Bjoern Michaelsen
<Sweetshark> o/
<Sweetshark> Hi all, sorry for mixing it up on the agenda: I am only applying for PerPackageUploader rights for LibreOffice, not for a PackageSet. (I didnt want to mess with the agenda during the meeting to avoid confusion.)
<tumbleweed> does everyone still have time for this?
<Sweetshark> o/
<Sweetshark> Hi all, sorry for mixing it up on the agenda: I am only applying for PerPackageUploader rights for LibreOffice, not for a PackageSet. (I didnt want to mess with the agenda during the meeting to avoid confusion.)
<tumbleweed> Sweetshark: np
<barry> i'm good for one more
 * tumbleweed is too
 * bdrung is, but may starve. ;)
<tumbleweed> ok, let's hurry up then :)
<tumbleweed> Sweetshark: care to introduce your application?
<tumbleweed> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BjoernMichaelsen/DeveloperApplication
<Sweetshark> You can see my application at
<Sweetshark> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BjoernMichaelsen/DeveloperApplication
<Sweetshark> I am Bjoern Michaelsen and work on Canonicals Desktop team since February 2011 and was on Sun/Oracles OpenOffice.org team before.
<tumbleweed> ^5
<Sweetshark> With regard to direct Ubuntu contributions, I provided the packaging for the libreoffice source package for natty, oneiric and precise (and libreoffice-l10n in natty and oneiric -- its gone in precise). I also provided some of the backports, although luckily I am supported there since 3.5.X by ricotz now. I try to work as close as possible with _rene_ at Debian and thus sometimes contribute to Debians LibreOffice packaging too.
<Sweetshark> Some of the libreoffice packaging changes can be seen here: http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=pkg-openoffice/libreoffice.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/ubuntu-precise-3.5 (this is the branch for LibreOffice 3.5.X on precise).
<Sweetshark> I am applying for PerPackage rights to be able to get a small fix in when it is needed urgently and no sponsors are available. If possible at all, I would usually resort the letting someone else (pitti, seb128 or anyone else who cant hide fast enough) look over my upload anyway even with rights because of the size of the package.
<Sweetshark> (I had some time to prepare myself for this ;) )
<barry> Sweetshark: do you anticipate many long-term deltas between ubuntu and debian?
<Sweetshark> barry: I try to kill them as much as possible and not to introduce new ones.
<Laney> do you contribute directly to the main debian branch too?
<Sweetshark> barry: For precise, I freshly branched of the debian, and then rebased all changes on top of that anew (carefully checking if they are really needed anymore)
<Sweetshark> Laney: yes.
<bdrung> Sweetshark: why do the libo icons not look nice in precise?
<bdrung> (maybe offtopic)
<Sweetshark> Laney: although I always keep in touch with _rene_ when doing this, so that there are no unsuspected surprises for him.
<Laney> nice, good to see you guys working together
<Laney> So, I take it you didn't know anything about packaging before starting in this position?
<bdrung> yes, good to see that collaboration
<Laney> How would you say your competence is now?
<Sweetshark> bdrung: honestly, I havent looked to deep into that yet, we had too many big changes causing me to look at issues elsewhere.
<micahg> Sweetshark: are you familiar with library transitions in Ubuntu?
<bdrung> Sweetshark: are you always allowed to upload libreoffice once you have upload rights?
<Sweetshark> Laney: I wouldnt claim to be an expert with dpkg -- esp. since LibreOffice is "special" in some ways, so I might not know the canonical way to do this. But then again, LibreOffice is special so it is not that relevant for perpackage rights.
<Sweetshark> micahg: you mean like the multiarch transition?
<micahg> Sweetshark: no, like libssl
<Laney> I'm not asking how confident you are in general, but how you feel about handling the LO package
<Sweetshark> bdrung: no, I have to keep the release schedule in mind. And again for LibreOffice: buildtimes until the deadlines.
<bdrung> Sweetshark: would you be allowed to do an upload _today_?
<Sweetshark> Laney: I am confident with LibreOffice packaging. between LibreOffice 3.4/3.5 oneiric/precise, we (Ubuntu/Debian) switched from the old go-oo build system to directly using LibreOffice native buildsystem with migrating all patches over, so in a way I was one of the creator of this 'new' packaging.
<Sweetshark> bdrung: beta freeze, so not without approval from release team. And again: I need to add buildtimes (esp. for arm) to my calculations.
<bdrung> yes
<micahg> Sweetshark: if libssl were to bump its SONAME, would that affect libreoffice and how so
<bdrung> Sweetshark: how long does a build take on a recent quad-core machine?
<Sweetshark> micahg: Im sorry, I dont know what you are aiming at.
<Sweetshark> bdrung: on my notebook (i7Quad, 16GB RAM) it takes 2:10 minutes with l10n and ccache. ~3:50 without ccache.
<micahg> Sweetshark: if there were a need for another libssl transition, would that affect libreoffice and how so?
<Sweetshark> bdrung: a upstream developer build (no l10n, no mozilla, no binfilter) takes ~1:30h without ccache, 5min with hot ccache on a reasonable fast machine.
<Sweetshark> micahg: Well, I guess I would have to check if ssl is part of the UNO-ABI. If so, that would have wideranging implications as it isnt allowed to get incompatible. If so, the old libssl would need to stick around.
<tumbleweed> Sweetshark: are you only after PPU rights for libreoffice itself, or any particular related source packages too?
<Sweetshark> (well UNO is allowed to get incompatible with LibreOffice 4.0, but we are not going for that upstream yet)
<Sweetshark> tumbleweed: just libreoffice for now
<micahg> Sweetshark: what if the UNO-ABI was compatible
<Sweetshark> micahg: extensions wouldnt work
<Sweetshark> micahg: (that is binary C++ extensions, which to be honest is a rare creed)
<tumbleweed> Sweetshark: it seems like recently your sponsored libreoffice uploads have been waved through with minimal review, as your sponsors clearly trust you. Are you still getting any useful feedback from them?
<Sweetshark> tumbleweed: If I ask for it yes. Otherwise not so much.
<Laney> Sweetshark: I'm looking at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/1:3.5.0-1ubuntu2
<Laney> can you talk us through the reasons for the first changelog item there - the breaks/replaces - why they were required
<Laney> was the previous package upload broken?
<Sweetshark> Laney: basically the debianized way to split libreoffice here is a making things a bit tricky.
<Sweetshark> we have a binary in libreoffice-core called unopkg.bin, which usually is called from a very thin script-wrapper called unopkg which was in libreoffice-common.
<Laney> so you forgot to add the breaks/replaces when it moved package?
<Sweetshark> as libreoffice-core depends on libreoffice-common one cant depend from libreoffice-common on -core.
<tumbleweed> ok, we need to wrap this up and vote, before micahg has to run off or bdrung eats his keyboard
<Laney> sorry, we're going to be out of time
<tumbleweed> #vote Should we grant Sweetshark PPU rights for libreoffice?
<meetingology> Please vote on: Should we grant Sweetshark PPU rights for libreoffice?
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<bdrung> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdrung
<stgraber> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from stgraber
<barry> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from barry
<Sweetshark> however the unopkg script was called from triggers, thus leading to situations were the script was there, but the binary was missing. Thus the script was moved to -core too. And yes, the replaces/breaks where needed for that. I would need to recheck, if I missed them in that upload or if it was in the same upload.
<micahg> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from micahg
<micahg> I'll have to provide my reasoning later
<stgraber> tumbleweed, Laney: ^
<tumbleweed> +0 I understand that libreoffice is a complex package and so is hard to get review for. But I don't want to grant this, with only a single endorsement whene there are a fair number of people worried about recent issues with the package
<meetingology> +0 I understand that libreoffice is a complex package and so is hard to get review for. But I don't want to grant this, with only a single endorsement whene there are a fair number of people worried about recent issues with the package received from tumbleweed
<Sweetshark> stgraber: doesnt really matter though anyway.
<Laney> +1 I have reservations about your answers to the question about transitions and the breaks/replaces upload that I pointed out, and I would urge you to seek clarification on that, but I don't want to block your application based on it.
<meetingology> +1 I have reservations about your answers to the question about transitions and the breaks/replaces upload that I pointed out, and I would urge you to seek clarification on that, but I don't want to block your application based on it. received from Laney
<tumbleweed> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Should we grant Sweetshark PPU rights for libreoffice?
<meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:1 Abstentions:2
<meetingology> Motion carried
<Laney> this is a package that benefits a lot from peer review
<Sweetshark> Laney: right, however everytime I need it, everyone is running away ;
<Sweetshark> ;)
<Laney> hah, indeed
<tumbleweed> Sweetshark: I feel that you should be able to get more endorsements to a developer application for such a core package
<Sweetshark> tumbleweed: well, pitti was almost the only sponsor.
<tumbleweed> Sweetshark: yes, the curse of a massive, complicated package
<Sweetshark> didrocks did one upload, but I dont thing there was much review there.
<tumbleweed> yeah, I see that
<tumbleweed> anyway
<tumbleweed> I'm sorry that we can't grant this application now, but we can dicuss this afterwards
<tumbleweed> #topic AOB?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB?
<Laney> yes, let's please limit to two applicants per meeting
<Sweetshark> bryceh got involved in one, but that upload was broken by an intermediate kdelibs upload. (It was that upload that was broken by it, the package that was in precise at that time was also ftbfs because of the kdelibs update.
<Laney> and update the agenda page to reflect this
<tumbleweed> Laney: +1
<bdrung> i worked on eclipse and know why i would try to escape a libreoffice review ;)
<stgraber> Laney: +1
<tumbleweed> Laney: care to take an action on that?
<Laney> ok
<bdrung> Laney: +1
<tumbleweed> #action Laney to document that we're only doing <=2 applicants per meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: Laney to document that we're only doing <=2 applicants per meeting
<tumbleweed> next chair?
<Laney> cody again :P
<Laney> or me i think
<tumbleweed> lol
<tumbleweed> laney is next on https://launchpad.net/~developer-membership-board/+members
<bdrung> (with round robin)
<Laney> i was referring to the fact that cody skipped an entire round
<bdrung> i don't mind giving him another chance ;)
<tumbleweed> works for me. keep you as standby?
<Laney> yep
<tumbleweed> right, I propose bed time
<tumbleweed> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Mar 26 21:38:37 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-26-19.03.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-26-19.03.html
<Laney> EPIC MEETING
 * Laney plays some metal
<tumbleweed> should I leave the minutes for cody? :P
 * bdrung is afk for cooking. :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-03-27
<mmrazik> hi everybody
<mmrazik> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Mar 27 14:30:39 2012 UTC.  The chair is mmrazik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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<tvoss> hi
<mmrazik> We are here to have a public meeting on QA stuff we do in Product Strategy
<mmrazik> today we would like to share some details on what we do with utouch in terms of quality
<mmrazik> [TOPIC] unit and integration testing for the utouch-stack
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: unit and integration testing for the utouch-stack
<mmrazik> tvoss: its yours :)
<tvoss> mmrazik, thanks :)
<tvoss> Hi all, my name is Thomas and I'm working as a quality engineer in the utouch team
<tvoss> let me present the "architecture" of utouch briefly
<tvoss> the stack mainly consists of 3 (4) components
<tvoss> utouch-frame is an abstraction layer that takes care of device, window and touch event handling
<tvoss> and it abstracts away from "platform specifics" regarding touches
<tvoss> utouch-grail sits on top of utouch-frame and provides gesture recognition capablities
<tvoss> utouch-geis integrates both utouch-frame and grail to provide gesture recognition services to applications via different interfaces
<tvoss> for example: DBus
<tvoss> finally, we have utouch-evemu optionally below frame
<tvoss> obviously, a stack like utouch requires both unit-testing and integration-testing
<tvoss> for both purposes, we rely on utouch-evemu to inject "fake" input events to the system
<tvoss> and this testing/injection layer allows us to record and replay corner/test cases
<tvoss> we use google test and its extension xorg-gtest to implement both our unit _and_ our integration testing
<mmrazik> tvoss: so evemu exists just for testing purposes? Or is it needed in production environment as well.
<tvoss> mmrazik, evemu is mainly used for testing purposes
<tvoss> it relies on a kernel interface (uinput) to inject input events even below X
<mmrazik> ok. I was just curious
<cnd> (it used to be a runtime dependency in the old utouch stack, but isn't anymore)
<tvoss> as X and XI 2.2 are parts of our stack as well
<tvoss> any other questions so far?
 * MrChrisDruif waits for the full "presentation"
<tvoss> a quick side note on xorg-gtest: it's a google test fixture/testing environment that takes care of starting/stopping a dummy x server environment
<tvoss> in our integration testing scenarios, we rely on xorg-gtest to start up a dummy server, insert fake events via evemu, and let them pass through the X server to utouch-frame
<tvoss> and to utouch-grail subsequently
<tvoss> with this chain in place, we are able to test both touch handling and gesture recognition with the help of pre-recorded touch sequences
<tvoss> so far for the actual testing setup. are there any questions? If not, I would go on with our continouos integration architecutre
<mmrazik> just curious -- how many tests do we have in place right now?
<mmrazik> for the integration part
<tvoss> mmrazik, all together, I would estimate like 20 overall cases
<tvoss> where each case might contain different types of gestures to be recognized etc
<cnd> grail has 18, frame has 2 or 3
<tvoss> some of them are regression tests
<tvoss> cnd, thanks
<cnd> geis has maybe 5?
<mmrazik> thx
<tvoss> okay :)
<tvoss> we use jenkins for continouos integration purposes
<tvoss> and we recently started working on a virtualization setup that allows us to build _and_ test frame, grail and geis in a vm
<tvoss> this allows us to do ci both for different releases/versions of ubuntu and for different platforms
<tvoss> currently, we run our builds and tests for precise on both i386 and amd64
<tvoss> but we are planning to extend this to further versions and platforms in the future
<MrChrisDruif> I'd highly suggest ARM
<tvoss> MrChrisDruif, yeah, we are working on that
<MrChrisDruif> Seeing most tablets and smartphones are ARM, I wonder why that wasn't the first one
<tvoss> MrChrisDruif, well, problem here is the availability of vm's
<tvoss> only qemu supports arm at the present moment (at least, for alien host architectures)
<cnd> MrChrisDruif, also, the code is platform agnostic
<cnd> the tests will likely catch trivial bugs like variable size differences
<mmrazik> MrChrisDruif: and HW in general. While our lab is  "full" of x86* HW  we don't have ARM ATM.
<mmrazik> but as tvoss said. It is on our radar and we are actively working on this
<mmrazik> the current plan is to have a functional setup for ARM testing for the 12.10 development cycle
<mmrazik> which starts in few months
<mmrazik> actually its more like a month
<tvoss> mmrazik, indeed :)
<tvoss> okay, putting all of the parts together, we are currently running builds and all of the tests for every merge to the trunk's projects
<MrChrisDruif> Great, thanks (had to check what agnostic code meant)
<tvoss> developers are provided with the unit test results/build logs and code coverage analysis results
<MrChrisDruif> (P.s.: 12.04 is in 30 days, so less then a month)
<tvoss> for the latter, we rely on instrumented code and gcov/lcov/gcovr to extract the results
<mmrazik> MrChrisDruif: ack
<tvoss> MrChrisDruif, thanks
<tvoss> any other questions?
<tvoss> well, thanks for reading then :)
<mmrazik> tvoss: thanks for the presentation
<tvoss> mmrazik, yw :)
<mmrazik> thanks everybody for participating and see you next month
<mmrazik> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Mar 27 15:00:40 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-27-14.30.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-27-14.30.html
<jamespage> o/
<SpamapS> o/
<hallyn> o/
 * SpamapS is finally going to chair
<adam_g> o/
<utlemming> o/
<SpamapS> jamespage: don't you dare
 * jamespage stands back
<jamespage> all yours!
<hallyn> who, almost had some friction there
<arosales> hello
 * SpamapS has no idea how his name kept getting pushed back, given he hasn't chaired in 3 months
<jamespage> actually I think SpamapS is in the chair for at least the next month
<MrChrisDruif> Server meeting?
<SpamapS> Alright, we have a lot to get to and not much time so lets GO
<SpamapS> #startmeeting Ubuntu Server Team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Mar 27 16:01:13 2012 UTC.  The chair is SpamapS. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting | Current topic:
<SpamapS> No actions from last week, so lets get right into precise dev
<SpamapS> #topic Precise Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting | Current topic:  Precise Development
<zul> |o|
<smoser> o/
<hallyn> (btw, kvm disk io perf regrssion might ought to be added to agenda, not sure)
<SpamapS> BTW, it would be helpful to have the release bug tracker in the meeting agenda
 * SpamapS does not know the link
<arosales> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html
<arosales> SpamapS: probably should add that link and the server team blueprint link
<Ursinha> I recall adding the link to the meeting page
<SpamapS> Ok well I added the report link to the meeting
<arosales> ubuntu server team blueprint link (for reference) http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/ubuntu-server.html
<arosales> although that will obviously change with different cycles.
<SpamapS> Ok, lots of bugs still to get through
<SpamapS> bug #959426
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 959426 in Glance "nova + glance services die if started before db is reachable" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/959426
<adam_g> SpamapS: in progress
<SpamapS> werd
<SpamapS> bug #960276
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 960276 in nova (Ubuntu) "a bad AMI can hang an entire compute node" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/960276
<adam_g> chucks workin a replacement to the console fifo patch we're carrying
<SpamapS> Ah, so thats something we broke?
<SpamapS> :)
<SpamapS> can somebody mark that bug In Progress/zulcss? kthx
<hallyn> is that related to the cosnole log growing indefinately?
<SpamapS> bug #883988
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 883988 in glance (Ubuntu Precise) "db migration failing when upgrading glance - trying to create existing tables" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/883988
<adam_g> SpamapS: i have a patch for that, just trying to get upstream to sign off on it before we apply it. should happen this week, ive sent it already
<adam_g> hallyn: yeah
<SpamapS> sweet
<SpamapS> adam_g: should be status Triaged then
<adam_g> SpamapS: yeah, ill update bot
<adam_g> *both
<SpamapS> and probably linked to upstream
<SpamapS> bug #924739
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 924739 in squid3 (Ubuntu Precise) "after upgrade from oneiric to precise, previous squid config unused, cannot be used when relocated" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/924739
<SpamapS> heh, its all adam_g, All morning
<SpamapS> /afternoon/evening depending on timezone ;)
<adam_g> ive sadly made no progress on that since last time, theres so much going on. if anyone else wants to help with that transition bug, please step up! :)
<SpamapS> I suspect that will affect lucid to precise as well
<adam_g> yes, theres not much we can do to work around it but we can do our best to make it as obvious to users thats the transition has happened
<SpamapS> anybody else have some available bandwidth to take over bug #924739?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 924739 in squid3 (Ubuntu Precise) "after upgrade from oneiric to precise, previous squid config unused, cannot be used when relocated" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/924739
<SpamapS> bug #928990
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 928990 in cloud-init (Ubuntu) "fsck / dirty filesystem on instance is death" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/928990
<jamespage> SpamapS, adam_g: I can spare a few cycles - lemme catchup with adam_g later
<SpamapS> smoser: is that just there for good measure?
<smoser> probably.
<smoser> i'd love it if someone wanted to take it
<smoser> :)
<smoser> but i dont have it on my list of things that i'm going to fix right now.
<SpamapS> bug #930916
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 930916 in amavisd-new (Ubuntu) "amavis start-stop script fails to stop amavisd" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/930916
<SpamapS> I haven't poked it since last time, but intend to.. soon.. I swear. ;)
<utlemming> smoser: I can't commit entirely to fixing it...but I can try. I have a lot on my plate, but I'm blocked today, so I'll take a stab
<SpamapS> bug #959262
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 959262 in python-novaclient (Ubuntu) "[Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/www/.novaclient'" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/959262
<adam_g> SpamapS: that one is fixed upstream, but we need to get it on their radar so its backported to essex/milestone-proposed. shouold happen today
<adam_g> otherwise we can patch, but shouldnt need to. its trivial
<SpamapS> adam_g: is it definitely going to happen before release, or 0-day SRU?
<SpamapS> bug #880339
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 880339 in mysql-5.5 (Ubuntu Precise) "AppArmor profile needs update" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/880339
<adam_g> SpamapS: should happen well before
<SpamapS> That one is actually Fix Committed .. just need to get 5.5.22 in as well
<Daviey> we really don't need to be thinking about 0-day SRU's yet.
<SpamapS> adam_g: alright
<SpamapS> Daviey: lot of bugs here.. not much time. ;)
<SpamapS> bug #907197
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 907197 in nova (Ubuntu) "ip address can't be injected into the instance when using lxc " [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/907197
<SpamapS> Bueller? Bueller?
<SpamapS> zul: ^^ ?
<zul> no response from user
<Daviey> SpamapS: if we have time to plan to do a 0-day SRU at this stage, we have time to get it in the release. :)
<SpamapS> bug #966069
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 966069 in horizon (Ubuntu) "/etc/apache2/conf.d/dashboard.conf contains wrong paths in the Ubuntu package" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/966069
<SpamapS> Daviey: I admire your optimism! :)
<Daviey> zul is already cracking that one out i think
<zul> SpamapS: fixed in bzr
<Daviey> \o/
<SpamapS> bug #901881
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 901881 in glance (Ubuntu) "nova and glance should depend on python-keystone" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/901881
<SpamapS> zul: can you make sure the status is right on that bug?
<zul> yep
<SpamapS> bug #959426
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 959426 in Glance "nova + glance services die if started before db is reachable" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/959426
<adam_g> SpamapS: in progress just like the nova task
<adam_g> same fix, basically
<SpamapS> sweet
<SpamapS> on to blueprints
<SpamapS> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/ubuntu-server.html
<arosales> so we are at week 24/28 Bet2 release on the 29th
<arosales> ~85% thorough the cycle if you count all the way up to release
<arosales> Overall progress is 77%, so we have a few blueprints we need to evaluate if we are going to be able to complete this cycle
<arosales> SpamapS: Would you like to iterate through the blueprints?
<SpamapS> arosales: I was just looking through them for those that seem behind
<SpamapS> servercloud-p-juju-charm-testing
<SpamapS> m_3 and I are working on getting that one back on track this week.
<SpamapS> servercloud-p-openstack-testing
<SpamapS> adam_g: only one TODO left, Collaborate on defining charm use workflow between OpenStack and Ubuntu: TODO ... seems like that doesn't make much sense to do before 12.04 releases
<SpamapS> servercloud-p-automated-boot-testing
<SpamapS> That one is mine, and I need to update the status. jamespage has saved me on this one, and we actually have a single reboot test now for LAMP :)
<adam_g> SpamapS: its something we'll likely be discussing at ODS in a couple of weeks, so left as a TODO till then. but right, its not release critical by any means
<SpamapS> adam_g: alright sounds good
<SpamapS> servercloud-p-cloud-power-management
<SpamapS> I'm going to invite aquette to come to next week's meeting so we can discuss this
<Daviey> SpamapS: that sounds great
<SpamapS> #action SpamapS invite aquette to next server team meeting to discuss servercloud-p-cloud-power-management
<meetingology> ACTION: SpamapS invite aquette to next server team meeting to discuss servercloud-p-cloud-power-management
<SpamapS> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-p-arm-service-orchestration
<Daviey> SpamapS: EOF?
<SpamapS> couple more
<SpamapS> rbasak: that one looks mostly on track, just pinging you on it since its < 75%
<Daviey> rbasak: We can go through, [racb] Validate cobbler enlistment works: TODO .. later if you want?
<SpamapS> also [racb] Validate juju using orchestra: TODO should probably be maas. :)
<rbasak> I feel a bit blocked on the new orchestra stuff and ARM support
<Daviey> rbasak: Grab me after this?
<rbasak> It's not quite clear what needs to be done with regard to this.
<rbasak> Daviey: OK
<SpamapS> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-p-ceph
<SpamapS> MIR still pending.. I think I'll postpone a few of the items in that one this week.
<hallyn> we may want to take more active role in that one next cycle
<Daviey> the MIR team are *too* loaded right now.
<SpamapS> Yes, I think the MIR team needs another member.
<Daviey> Adding anything other than pure essential stuff is a no-go
<SpamapS> Its likely we'll continue to add openstack components and other bits.
<Daviey> Ie, if it's not the on the cd, it's a hard push to consider a MIR now.
<SpamapS> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-p-orchestra
<SpamapS> That one is mostly on track, but looks a little behind
<Daviey> now accurate
<SpamapS> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-p-openstack
<SpamapS> Perhaps just lagging on WI updates?
<Daviey> zul: ^^
<zul> Daviey: yeah need to update it today
<zul> mostly on track though
<SpamapS> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-p-kvm-document-suggested-changes
<hallyn> Just updated that.  What remains TODO, I intend TODO
<SpamapS> sweet
<Daviey> groovy
<SpamapS> just a couple more
<SpamapS> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-p-juju-mir
<SpamapS> Been working with jdstrand on this directly all week.
<Daviey> seemed intensive
<SpamapS> We have some security concerns to address, but otherwise it is progressing.
<SpamapS> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-p-openstack-charms
<Daviey> adam_g: ^
<SpamapS> Some of these I think can be pushed as updates to the charms post-release
<adam_g> SpamapS: those are all not release critical, and not sure which will get done before release
<SpamapS> adam_g: perhaps just POSTPONE them and if you end up doing them, go back and change them to DONE?
<adam_g> i think pots-UDS calm would be a better time to address those, short of the swift tasks.. those charms need updating for keystone auth
<adam_g> SpamapS: yeah, sounds good
<SpamapS> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-p-juju-roadmap
<SpamapS> Last one
<SpamapS> juju team is landing many of those this week
<Daviey>  - Okay.. So.. Beta-2... -
<SpamapS> aye
<Daviey> I'll be doing another spin later on today.
<zul> how come?
<Daviey> Is there anything else which is a candidate for inclusion ?
<Daviey> zul: Some changes required on the cd.
<Daviey> :)
<adam_g> Daviey: there are some other openstack rc1's that trickled in after freeze
<adam_g> nova, especially
<Daviey> adam_g: I saw a less than important quantum upload
<Daviey> anything else?
<adam_g> Daviey: i think nova was the only in-main component
<adam_g> zul ?
<Daviey> Has that been uploaded?  Is it in the queue?
<adam_g> oh!
<adam_g> keystone, though not in main
<zul> it beens uploaded for a while now
<Daviey> ok
<Daviey> I also pruned some things from the cd..
<Daviey> (including puppet and zsh)
<Daviey> Anything else beta-2 critical ?
<SpamapS> not zsh!! ;)
<SpamapS> Daviey: I can get you a few MB in mysql-client
<Daviey> SpamapS: fear not, it's still in mai.
<Daviey> SpamapS: have bags of space right now :)
<Daviey> now ruby is off the cd :)
<SpamapS> ok good
<SpamapS> (about ruby being gone, not your space.. who cares about space? ;)
<Daviey> Okay, nothing else of importance.. lets skip beta-2 and go straight to release. :)
<SpamapS> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vde2/+bug/776818
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 776818 in vde2 (Ubuntu) "[MIR] vde2" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<zul> space...the final frontier...these are the voyages of the..
<hallyn> basically i was wondering if anyone else wanted to asnwer jdstrand's question:  "does serverr team want this"
<hallyn> i think the answer is, users want it so yes,
<SpamapS> heh, at this point, "Not for P"
<hallyn> naturally :)
<hallyn> but if the answer is yes, better to answer that now so when they have time, mir team can consider
<hallyn> otoh,
<hallyn> vde2 is way behind debian's version, and noone has cared enough to mention it
<SpamapS> I know it sucks to keep pushing back but this is LATE
<Daviey> hallyn: I'd like a UDS session on making kvm rock harder.. this can be discussed there
<SpamapS> lets push this to Q and make sure it happens in Q
<hallyn> SpamapS: of course it's pushed to Q, but i don't think answering the q should be pushed to q
<hallyn> all right ifne
<SpamapS> Sounds good
<Daviey> hallyn: we can push it to discuss at UDS-Q. :)
<SpamapS> time to move on
<SpamapS> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Server Team Events
<hallyn> Daviey: (we did that last time :)
<Daviey> hallyn: *doh*
<hallyn> Daviey: (note that comment was written *at* uds-p)
<Daviey> Events, Openstack Design Summit
<hallyn> events... uds coming up :)
<SpamapS> jcastro and marcoceppi are presenting on juju at POSSCON http://www.posscon.org/
<Daviey>  - Apr 16-18 in San Francisco
<Daviey> ^  ODS
<SpamapS> Also the conference is the 2 days after that :)
<arosales> m_3 @ DevOptsDays Austin April 2-3
<hallyn> url?
<SpamapS> m_3 and robbiew will be at DevOpsDays Austin next week http://devopsdays.org/
<hallyn> thx
<SpamapS> arosales: jynx
<arosales> :-)
<arosales> thanks for providing the URL
<SpamapS> ok, we have just 11 minutes left
<SpamapS> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<SpamapS> hggdh: anything to report?
<SpamapS> I suspect once Daviey does his respin we should all try to crank out some ISO testing
<hggdh> nothing, except I had just finished the server tests when I heard of the respin...
<hggdh> ..
<hallyn> someone buy the man a cupcake :(
<SpamapS> hggdh: I just threw something across the room in your honor
<hggdh> SpamapS: actually, yes, help will be very appreciated ;-)
<hggdh> SpamapS: thank you. I hope it did not break anything
<Daviey> 4 more test cases will be added to the tracker later doay
<Daviey> today
<SpamapS> Seriously, people, give the iso a try..  http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com
<hggdh> Daviey: perfect
<hallyn> ping on ubuntu-server when respin complete?
<Daviey> hallyn: sure
<SpamapS> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<smb> Hi
<smb> Meddled a bit more in libvirt and could find the reason why xen shutdown is not seen in some cases. Sent patches upstream (to be so far ignored) and asked hallyn for sponsorship into precise.
<Daviey> Hey smb.. How is our lovely kernel?
<smb> Apart from that not that much exiting. :)
<smb> ..
<Daviey> smb: i386 on heavy boxes?  Is that being worked on?
<smb> Yes, apw wanted to think about a few things
<tgardner> Daviey, you read Andy's analysis, right ?
<smb> He had a few ideas how to go forward there
<Daviey> smb: In time for kernel final freeze?
<Daviey> tgardner: Yes, it was very compressive
<Daviey> comprehensive
 * smb believes the probablility is good
<tgardner> Daviey, I don't think there is anything we'll do before freeze
<SpamapS> much love to the kernel team.. I have no complaints... both my macs, and my hundreds of short lived EC2 instances have all worked perfectly. :)
<Daviey> tgardner: I tohught the outcome was a printk "System incompatible with current kernel" etc.
<tgardner> Daviey, I think we can do that
<hallyn> except I think there's possibility our kvm guest perf woes might need kernel love... need to dig further
<Daviey> tgardner: I am adding to our MIN system requirements a MAX system requirement for i386, for the release notes.
<Daviey> hallyn: You've been speaking to smoser about kvm perf?
<smb> hallyn, Keep me posted there
<hallyn> yes
<hallyn> both
<Daviey> groovy
<tgardner> Daviey, Andy knows the most about this, but he's not in right now.
<smoser> yeah, thats gonna be fun.
<Daviey> ok, thanks tgardner / smb
<SpamapS> Alright moving on
<SpamapS> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<smoser> i just want to make sure that we do a reasonable job, and ideally pick off the low hanging fruit for this cycle, not next.
<rbasak> Nothing to report. Any questions for me?
<hallyn> rbasak: mind running an lxc testsuite on arm in next week or two?
<SpamapS> rbasak: I can has armserver?! kthxbai
<rbasak> hallyn: sure.
<hallyn> (i need to convert it to pyunit, but for now...)
<hallyn> thx
<hallyn> hopefully no weird apparmor related glitches there
<SpamapS> rbasak: thanks!
<SpamapS> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting | Current topic:  Open Discussion
<Daviey> Nothin' from me, expect - well done on getting this far chaps!
<hallyn> s/pect/cept/
<Daviey> ta
<arosales> +1
<SpamapS> indeed, 12.04 is going to be awesome. :)
<SpamapS> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting | Current topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<SpamapS> Tue, April 3, 16:00 UTC, right here
<SpamapS> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Mar 27 16:59:21 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-27-16.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-27-16.01.html
<SpamapS> thanks everybody!
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Mar 27 17:00:06 2012 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Precise
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<bjf> o/
<apw> o/
<tgardner> o/
<cking> o/
<henrix> o/
<smb> \o
<sforshee> o/
<ppisati> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> P/omap4: since a critical bug (lp963512 - "Latest kernel updates broke video on omap4") was affecting 3.2.0-1410.13, for beta2 the kernel was reverted to a previous working version (3.2.0-1409.12). AFAIK the regression came with latest rebase on master (3.2.1[0-2]) while the TI BSP was unchanged - so it's either a bad interaction between upstream/TI BSP or it's a brand new bug we got from upstream.
<ppisati> lp956693 ("Broken perf with Ubuntu-3.2.0-1408.11 at Pandaboard"): one of the patch from Linaro tried to enable perf hw support but it wasn't ready for prime, reverting it gave us perf ba
<ppisati> ck in a working shape.
<ppisati> lp666267("Cross compiled headers package breaks DKMS compilation"): two patches that address this issue were resurrected from O and ported to P, scripts/* are correctly cross compiled no
<ppisati> w.
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/canonical-kernel-distro-team-ubuntu-12.04-beta-2.html
<ogasawara> || apw        || hardware-p-kernel-boot                || 4 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||            || hardware-p-kernel-config-review       || 1 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||            || hardware-p-kernel-delta-review        || 3 work items ||
<ogasawara> apw, I assume you'll get those cleaned up by Thurs.  If not, I'll do it.
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Blueprint: hardware-p-kernel-power-management (cking)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Blueprint: hardware-p-kernel-power-management (cking)
<cking> Power management:
<cking>  * hdparm spin up/down measurements
<cking>    http://zinc.canonical.com/~cking/power-benchmarking/hdparm-spindown-settings
<cking>  * Going to re-measure unity 2d vs 3d fairly soon.
<cking> ..
<tgardner> ogasawara, maybe apw needs help
<apw> tgardner, i don't think any of them will end the world either way
<apw> will have a look and let you know ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Precise Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Precise Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> We are currently frozen for the upcoming Beta-2 release this Thurs, Mar
<ogasawara> 29.  Only fixes critical for the release will warrent an upload at this
<ogasawara> time.  We just uploaded 3.2.0-23.33 which contains a critical fix for
<ogasawara> bug 960466.  We plan to upload all other queued patches immediately
<ogasawara> following the release on Thurs.  Note that Kernel Freeze is next Thurs
<ogasawara> Apr 5.  I intend to upload our final kernel no later than Tues Apr 3.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 960466 in linux (Ubuntu Precise) "Provide correct reporting of BMI1/AVX2/BMI2 support" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/960466
<ogasawara> If there are any patches which need to land, submit them immediately.
<ogasawara> After Kernel Freeze, all patches are subject to our SRU policy:
<ogasawara> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/Dev/StablePatchFormat
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Mar 29 - Beta-2 (~2 days)
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Apr 5 - Kernel Freeze (~1 week)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (apw)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's (apw)
<apw> Currently we have 71 CVEs on our radar, with no new CVEs added this week.
<apw> See the CVE matrix for the current list:
<apw>  
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<apw>  
<apw> Broadly the backlog is unchanged this week:
<apw>  
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/status/cve-metrics.txt
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<apw>  
<apw> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Oneiric/Natty/Maverick/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Oneiric/Natty/Maverick/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton)
<bjf> Here is the status for the main kernels, until today (Mar. 27):
<bjf>  
<bjf>  * Hardy    - 2.6.24-31.101 - Being prep'd; Fix for a single warning.
<bjf>  * Lucid    - 2.6.32-41.88  - Being prep'd; 52 commits in total.
<bjf>  * Maverick - 2.6.35-32.68  - Being prep'd; 9 commits in total. NOTE: THIS IS THE LAST MAVERICK KERNEL!
<bjf>  * Natty    - 2.6.38-14.58  - Being prep'd; 12 commits in total. Mostly eCryptfs and KVM.
<bjf>  * Oneiric  - 3.0.0-17.30   - Being prep'd; 4 stable upstream releases (194 commits).
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf>  
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf> Future stable cadence cycles:
<bjf>  * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseInterlock
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Mar 27 17:06:09 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-27-17.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-27-17.00.html
<apw> jsalisbury, thanks
 * smb just has not looked for a second...
<cking> don't blink or you will miss it
<Daviey> shortest meeting ever \o/
<cking> Daviey, I think 4 mins is the record
<Effenberg0x0> o/ coffeecat
<coffeecat> o/ Effenberg0x0
<quackers> o/ coffeecat
<Effenberg0x0> o/ philinux
<philinux> hello
<quackers> o/ philinux
<josephmills> hello
<quackers> o/ josephmills
<josephmills>  \o
<Effenberg0x0> Lots of people showing up early for the meeting, very professional :)
<quackers> or forgot about the British Summer Time, like  me :-)
<Effenberg0x0> hehe
<philinux> doh what time os it
<quackers> 1900 UTC 2000 BST I think
<Effenberg0x0> It's scheduled to 1900UTC. That's 16:00 here (GMT-0300). We're one hour early
<philinux> danh bst
<c0rtman> Effenberg0x0, Apparently.
<quackers> shall we have a game of football? There's enough of us
<philinux> I am on my smart phone and cat see what  what is typing
<quackers> my smart phone isn't too smart either :-)
 * Effenberg0x0 has tried QATeam weekly meeting via Android phone... hated it :)
<Effenberg0x0> gotta get some coffee... I'll be back in 5m
<forestpiskie> hi Artificial_Intel - it's today :p
<Artificial_Intel> hello
<Artificial_Intel> aye :P
<Effenberg0x0> o/ Artificial_Intel
<Artificial_Intel> hello effenberg
<Artificial_Intel> forestpixie, anyone could go wrong of the date :P
<forestpiskie> :D
<forestpiskie> I usually do the time thing wrong Artificial_Intel
 * Effenberg0x0 is using specific app in android to keep track with Ubuntu activities in different time zones
<nlsthzn> o/ Artificial_Intel :)
<Artificial_Intel> I can't do that. My mobilephone is from before the wheel was invented.
<Artificial_Intel> hiya nlsthzn
 * Artificial_Intel likes retro stuff
<nlsthzn> is there enough time for me to get a cup of tea?
<Artificial_Intel> 6 min
<Artificial_Intel> sure
<forestpiskie> Artificial_Intel: cool - we can compare phones then :D
<nlsthzn> whoo hoo
<bjf> close
<Artificial_Intel> Wondering how many council members turns up today.
<philinux> back kust in time
<forestpiskie> Artificial_Intel: hope it's enough
<wildmanne39> big crowd
<Artificial_Intel> we're all properly bots :P
<wildmanne39> lol
<papibe> Hi all!
<Effenberg0x0> Hi Papibe
<wildmanne39> o/ papibe
<nlsthzn> o/ papibe
<josephmills> hello papibe
<papibe> :-)
<forestpiskie> good evening papibe
<papibe> Hi, nice to see you all. (first time here)
<philinux> forestpoxie o/
<forestpiskie> thanks for that then philinux ;)
<nlsthzn> o/ phillw
<nlsthzn> o/ philinux
<nlsthzn> >.<
 * balloons is unsure of his origin
<forestpiskie> papibe: come join us in #ubuntuforums as well then :)
<philinux> not so smaet phone eh
<forestpiskie> :)
<CharlesA> smart phones can be quite dumb at times. ;-)
<Artificial_Intel> a smartphone is not smarter than its user :D
<wildmanne39> getting them to be smart can be like pulling teeth
<nothingspecial> -1 Artificial_Intel
<papibe> sure, this is nice!
<nothingspecial> :D
<Artificial_Intel> Just wrote on staff forum a reminder of the meeting
<CharlesA> Howdy howefield
<nlsthzn> o/ howefield
<howefield> o/
<howefield> am I too late ?
<nlsthzn> yes, all the cake is gone
<Artificial_Intel> nope
<wildmanne39> yep doen at the cake
<wildmanne39> done
<howefield> just back from a conference - was not sure if I'd be in time
<forestpiskie> hi howefield
<howefield> Usain Bolt couldn't beat nlsthzn to the cake :)
<howefield> hi forestpiskie :)
<bodhi_zazen> back, sorry =)
<nlsthzn> to true
<CharlesA> mm cake
<forestpiskie> he might - but he'd not beat elfy howefield
<nlsthzn> o/ bodhi_zazen
<CharlesA> 'lo bodhi_zazen
<howefield> hehe
<wildmanne39> o/ bodhi_zazen
<bodhi_zazen> Have we started yet ?
<forestpiskie> nope
<nothingspecial> nope bodhi_zazen, you are the chair
<philinux> who in charge
<forestpiskie> bodhi_zazen: seems to only be you and Artificial_Intel
<bodhi_zazen> Who else is here from the FC ?
<coffeecat> o/
<Artificial_Intel> o/
<bodhi_zazen> Who else on the FC knows how to use mootobt ?
<bodhi_zazen> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScribesTeam/MootBot
<Artificial_Intel> nope
<phillw> bodhi_zazen: I do, but would need a minute to pull up the agenda
<bodhi_zazen> OK I sort of need to start as I have to go in an hour =)
<nothingspecial> if you've not seen bodhi_zazen
<bodhi_zazen> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Mar 27 19:07:55 2012 UTC.  The chair is bodhi_zazen. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<coffeecat> There are only 3 from FC atm. Is this a quorum?
<bodhi_zazen> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda
<bodhi_zazen> No, but we sort of need to go with what we have
<coffeecat> OK
<Artificial_Intel> Aye
<Effenberg0x0> Cariboo907 is on (UTC-0700), he might have gotten confused with time conversion
<Effenberg0x0> (I almost did)
<CharlesA> I thought it was yesterday >.<
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC]Archiving forums
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Archiving forums
<Artificial_Intel> I'm all for the changes that you posted, Bodhi. But I'm a bit of concern regarding part 2
<bodhi_zazen> sorry
<bodhi_zazen> what concerns Artificial_Intel
<coffeecat> I like the idea of using T&T as pointer/support to wiki pages.
<bodhi_zazen> That is next coffeecat , method of archiving the forums is up now
<coffeecat> OK
<bodhi_zazen> Archiving inactive posts sort of solves a few problems
<bodhi_zazen> outdated information and necromancy
<bodhi_zazen> We can not do much, if anything, about google indexing
<Artificial_Intel> What about LTS support?
<bodhi_zazen> If there are no other comments, lets consider what archiving strategy we want in chit chat
<bodhi_zazen> Well, AFIK, if the thread has been inactive for 6-12 months time to archive
<bodhi_zazen> LTS is not static either
<bodhi_zazen> And I do not think we have enough LTS specific support to justify a LTS only section, I think it would duplicate effort and be confusing and disorganized
<Artificial_Intel> Hmmm... so auto close after 6-12 months, then people can link to a close thread if needed?
<bodhi_zazen> I am open to other proposals
<bodhi_zazen> +1 Artificial_Intel
<nothingspecial> may I ask an off topic question relating to the FC meeting as a whole?
<coffeecat> +1 Artificial_Intel
<bodhi_zazen> sure nothingspecial
<nothingspecial> are forum users able to voice their opinions here?
<nothingspecial> and now ?
<bodhi_zazen> That is what we are here for, to discuss and listen
<nothingspecial> thanks
<Artificial_Intel> but the voting is for the (usually) council only
<bodhi_zazen> Any other comments of archiving old forums posts ?
<philinux> 6 months is a lomg time dead
<bodhi_zazen> Artificial_Intel: `votes is FC only
<Artificial_Intel> aye
<bodhi_zazen> OK then
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC]Closing T&T
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Closing T&T
<bodhi_zazen> The idea is to move techinical how-to's to the wiki
<bodhi_zazen> and use T&E for support of specific wiki pages
<bodhi_zazen> This has many advantages, wiki is easier to community maintain
<bodhi_zazen> meaning peer reviews and updates
<Effenberg0x0> Guys, sorry for disturbing, a little OT: would you consider having a single "wiki index" thread? Just pointers to wiki articles. Is that the way you're picturing it?
<Artificial_Intel> idea is great, but all the other forums will be flooded with guides and howtos if we close it for good.
<cprofitt> I have one concern with that -- I think the forums are a gateway to the community for many... I would want to see something done to show people a path to the wiki
<bodhi_zazen> That is the idea cprofitt
<bodhi_zazen> make an announcement in the tutorials section about pending changes
<cprofitt> A symbiotic relationship would be ideal -- wiki for the initial tutorial, wiki for modifications -- forum for discussion
<bodhi_zazen> list links to get started with wiki editing
<cortman> As a contributerto T&T I like the idea of making it a portal to the wiki- I would have just updated the outdate wiki pages instead of writing my own tutorial if I'd known at the time. +1
<bodhi_zazen> After a month or so, new threads are support only, not actually posting tutorials , something like that
<coffeecat> We'd still need to moderate new threads - make sure they link to wiki pages??
<nothingspecial> +1 to what cprofitt said
<bodhi_zazen> Yes coffeecat
<coffeecat> I like this. Peer review for technical excellence is better done by the community as a whole rather than staff in the forum.
<nothingspecial> change the focus of T&T to discussion and support of wiki pages
<bodhi_zazen> Here is what was posted for those without access to the  link on the agenda
<bodhi_zazen> My suggestion would be to encourage the wiki and discourage tips and tutorials. The tutorials section is a nice feature here, but outdated. Wiki has the advantage in that it is easier to peer review, update, and community maintain then a post on the forums.
<CharlesA> +1 to bodhi_zazen
<bodhi_zazen> I think the consensus opinion is to move in that direction
<bodhi_zazen> Anyone willing to post a notice in the tutorials section ?
<forestpiskie> admin or staff?
<bodhi_zazen> either
<forestpiskie> I can do one
<bodhi_zazen> thank you forestpiskie
<forestpiskie> get a draft in SCC later today/tomorrow
<bodhi_zazen> you can post a draft in the staff section if you would find that helpful
<forestpiskie> yep
<bodhi_zazen> [ACTION] Start transitioning tutorials to wiki, use forums for support discussion (cross link wiki pages <-> forms thread)
<meetingology> ACTION: Start transitioning tutorials to wiki, use forums for support discussion (cross link wiki pages <-> forms thread)
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC]Forums upgrade
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Forums upgrade
<bodhi_zazen> Anyone have an update on this for the community ?
<bodhi_zazen> Basically , Canonical has set up a test server and is in the process of developing the openid plug in and new theme
<bodhi_zazen> it do not have a "go live" date for the upgrade
<bodhi_zazen> s-fox was working in it and is not here
<bodhi_zazen> [topic]Community building
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Community building
<bodhi_zazen> Thanks to everyone for the budding success of #ubuntuforums
<nothingspecial> +1
<bodhi_zazen> It seems to be a great place to get to know the staff
<forestpiskie> +1 to that
<bodhi_zazen> and for the staff to interact with the community
<josephmills> +1
<Effenberg0x0> ^^ +1
<bodhi_zazen> I would remind everyone, the the channel is sort of communal property
<wildmanne39> +1\
<bodhi_zazen> If someone is being "disruptive" - politely speak up
<bodhi_zazen> The staff will op the channel for extreme disruptive behavior, but we the staff do no wish to burden the entire responsibility
<forestpiskie> perhaps add the sentiment to the topic
<bodhi_zazen> http://freenode.net/channel_guidelines.shtml
<bodhi_zazen> http://freenode.net/catalysts.shtml
<bodhi_zazen> Also, I think it is good for staff to interact with the community
<bodhi_zazen> both on the forums and irc
<bodhi_zazen> #ubuntu-community-team is a great channel
<bodhi_zazen> I know it is easy to get busy with daily troll hunting, and we do great at that, but we are also leaders of the community
<nothingspecial> +1, we would like it to be somewhere the staff can interact with the community. To quote one user in the last few days "well, it does make you seem less intimidating"
<bodhi_zazen> There are some rough edges in the community sometimes, but it is best to establish contacts with others and not remain as isolated
<cprofitt> 0/
<bodhi_zazen> CafÃ© should be a good place to interact as well nothingspecial
<bodhi_zazen> as long as it is on topic, speak up cprofitt
<Artificial_Intel> or games forum
 * bodhi_zazen has to go in 20 minutes
<cprofitt> I think getting to know other 'groups' in the community will help with those groups understanding and appreciating what the forums staff does... and give the forums staff insight in to what other groups do...
<nothingspecial> o/
<cprofitt> it also allows groups, once trust is built, to get a different view of their 'area' from people... which helps lend perspective
<bodhi_zazen> speak up nothingspecial
<nothingspecial> I would like the #ubuntuforums channel to be a gateway to the wider Ubuntu community
<nothingspecial> that converese on irc
<josephmills> o/
<bodhi_zazen> please, everyone, speak as long as it is on topic
<bodhi_zazen> only raise you hand if it is off topic
<josephmills> nothingspecial,  if there was more links in the header to show others different channels and groups
<bodhi_zazen> but to be honest, off topic stuff is likely going to have to wait
<josephmills> might be a good thing
<cprofitt> this is an impressive stat I think most people in the community can appreciate: Active Members: 47,036
<nothingspecial> +1 cprofitt
<bodhi_zazen> Any other comments on community building ?
<Effenberg0x0>  The Ubuntu universe is broad and complex. Users are many times curious and in doubt. They want to understand who is who, what are the structures, governance, etc. The first-contact-points (IRC, UF) should provide that.
<josephmills> yes
<bodhi_zazen> Also, keep in mind, part of community building is encouraging ubuntu membership
<philinux> 89
<josephmills> comment about ubuntu support
<bodhi_zazen> Ubuntu membership is a way of recognizing contributions
<bodhi_zazen> and members like being contacted by leaders , encouraging them to apply
<josephmills> like from conaical no one knows about that
<josephmills> the support ^^ tie into forums  ?
<nothingspecial> The forum staff have been encouraging membership. In my experience it has been going well
<bodhi_zazen> I think most of the staff will recall how you felt when you were recognized for your contributions and asked to join the staff
<forestpiskie> flabbergasted
<nlsthzn> confused
<bodhi_zazen> same good vibes when we contact people to apply for membership
<forestpiskie> yep
<nothingspecial> +1 bodhi_zazen
<bodhi_zazen> Any other comments on community building ?
<philinux> All staff were just regular forum users ay one point
<bodhi_zazen> Oh, anyone with any questions on IRC, ask =)
<bodhi_zazen> [topic]Staff
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Staff
<bodhi_zazen> This topic is more informational, both to staff and community
<phillw> o/
<bodhi_zazen> I would like to move to a process for staff
<bodhi_zazen> We would invite Ubutnu Forums Members to apply, perhaps in FH&F
<bodhi_zazen> as a part of the application, a brief description of why they feel qualified, etc
<Sidewinder1> FH&F?
<bodhi_zazen> We can then set up an elections process, staff serve for ? 1 year
<bodhi_zazen> ? longer
<bodhi_zazen> http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=48
<bodhi_zazen> Ubuntu forms members can vote for staff
<bodhi_zazen> We probably do not yet have enough members, but close enough to give it some thought
<Sidewinder1> Thanx bodhi_zazen
<bodhi_zazen> FC is a bit different
<bodhi_zazen> There is some "training" involved as you can see with the new FC members
<bodhi_zazen> Staff interested would need to have some training, then we can go through a similar nominations and elections process
<bodhi_zazen> The only concern I have with the FC is - we can not just elect "anyone"
<bodhi_zazen> Please give these issues some thought and we can discuss it further
<bodhi_zazen> I am not anticipating much discussion here as it is sort of a new idea for how we select staff
<bodhi_zazen> Any comments ?
<Artificial_Intel> other than it's a good idea, I have noting to say.
<Sidewinder1> All that you've said makes sound sense.
<bodhi_zazen> It is new, but the direction I would like to move in
<coffeecat> There needs to be a review of the process, but there are several issues that need thought and debate. Thanks bodhi_zazen
<bodhi_zazen> One thing we should be doing, encouraging leaders
<bodhi_zazen> [topic]team reports
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: team reports
<bodhi_zazen> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TeamReports/February2012
<bodhi_zazen> This is sort of a FC training issue
<bodhi_zazen> Our report from last month did not make the master list, so lets continue to improve
<bodhi_zazen> Who will do the FC team report this month ? (FC member please)
<bodhi_zazen> either s-fox or I can help, but we all need to learn to do this
<Iowan> I botched last months...
<bodhi_zazen> Iowan: don't worry, I botched my share
<bodhi_zazen> Want to try again this month ?
<bodhi_zazen> practice makes perfect =)
<Iowan> Or less flawed...
<Iowan> I'm game...
<bodhi_zazen> Thank you
<bodhi_zazen> I want to get the entire FC up to speed on all these "little" administrative tasks, they are to much for me to do it all
<bodhi_zazen> [topic]Updates to ubiquity and firefox bookmarks
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Updates to ubiquity and firefox bookmarks
<bodhi_zazen> Thanks to everyone who worked on this
<bodhi_zazen> All we can do is submit a "patch" on LP
<bodhi_zazen> It will either be accepted, or not
<bodhi_zazen> Please respect the package maintainers decision on this
<philinux> I dont think it will happen sadly
<bodhi_zazen> It is not a personal insult or attack on the forms if they say no ...
<bodhi_zazen> philinux: We did miss the feature freeze
<bodhi_zazen> We can submit a patch each release cycle =)
<josephmills> has anyone called people that work for conaical about this ?
<bodhi_zazen> Why would we do that josephmills ?
<bodhi_zazen> It is not up to Canonical to dictate to the package maintainers ;)
<josephmills> ahh I see but they have to have some push ?
<philinux> we need a new maintainer
<bodhi_zazen> Canonical would probably not do that, and the developers want to be given mandates about as much as the FC does
<bodhi_zazen> +1 philinux
<josephmills> bodhi_zazen,  cool and thanks
<bodhi_zazen> we need to work within the system please
<bodhi_zazen> Submit a working , elegant patch, with please and thank you ;)
<philinux> +1
<bodhi_zazen> [topic]FC meetings
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: FC meetings
<bodhi_zazen> Can we please set a more fixed time and spread the word to the community
<bodhi_zazen> Hard to get a good turn out without at least a week notice
<Sidewinder1> +1
<bodhi_zazen> Can we skip to the ban reversal ?
<bodhi_zazen> is mjp29 here ?
<bodhi_zazen> [topic]ban reversal
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ban reversal
<Iowan> I emailed him with date/time/IRC client info
<bodhi_zazen> I would not even consider a reversal without additional information and a conversation, mailing list would be fine
<bodhi_zazen> Often there is a difference of opinion on what spam is
<Iowan> I haven't heard/seen if he has signed CoC
<bodhi_zazen> We have a higher standard on the forums
<Iowan> I've been trying to forward his emails to FC
<bodhi_zazen> so links to "personal home pages" selling products and services are not allowed for example
<bodhi_zazen> So we need to agree on what spam is on the forms, no more spam, etc
<Artificial_Intel> no need to waste time on it, clearly a spammer
<bodhi_zazen> +1 Artificial_Intel
<Iowan> Was that why the ban - or trolling?
<bodhi_zazen> If the member is not here, and there is not information on the mailing list we will have to table it
<Artificial_Intel> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?threadid=1708017
<Iowan> OK here.
<bodhi_zazen> spam
<bodhi_zazen> Artificial_Intel: posted the link, only staff can see it though
<nothingspecial> spam
<Iowan> This is not john spartan
<phillw> ahh, that explains!
<nothingspecial> oic
<bodhi_zazen> OK, if they want to discuss the matter further, have them contact the FC
<Iowan> Will do!
<bodhi_zazen> For the benefit of the community ...
<bodhi_zazen> We will consider reversals as long as we are able to come to a mutually agreeable understanding
<bodhi_zazen> And I have not yet received a complaint that there is not enough spam on the forums >:)
<bodhi_zazen> [topic]NEW MEMBERS !!!
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: NEW MEMBERS !!!
<bodhi_zazen> http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=404
<bodhi_zazen> Thank you everyone for helping to reach out to the community on this
<bodhi_zazen> dmizer - http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1947333
<Artificial_Intel> Funny I thought dmizer had membership
<bodhi_zazen> yea, it expired, happens
<nothingspecial> +1
<josephmills> can I vote on these ?
<bodhi_zazen> [vote]dmizer for membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: dmizer for membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<bodhi_zazen> votes are FC only
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bodhi_zazen
<coffeecat> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from coffeecat
<josephmills> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from josephmills
<Iowan> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Iowan
<Artificial_Intel> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Artificial_Intel
<bodhi_zazen> [endvote]
<meetingology> Voting ended on: dmizer for membership
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<bodhi_zazen> effenberg0x0 http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=260143
<bodhi_zazen> Effenberg0x0: you here ?
<Effenberg0x0> I am :)
<philinux> +1
<josephmills> +1
<bodhi_zazen> josephmills: FC only please
<philinux> sorry
<bodhi_zazen> [vote] Effenberg0x0 for membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: Effenberg0x0 for membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<coffeecat> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from coffeecat
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bodhi_zazen
<Artificial_Intel> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Artificial_Intel
<Iowan> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Iowan
<bodhi_zazen> [endvote]
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Effenberg0x0 for membership
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<bodhi_zazen> congrats Effenberg0x0 =)
<Effenberg0x0> Thanks you so much to all of you
<bodhi_zazen> Ms. Daisy http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1944160
<bodhi_zazen> Ms. Daisy is not here
<nothingspecial> she was invited
<bodhi_zazen> I will speak in her behalf - Although she has only been a member since Sept 2011, I think we all know her and clearly recognize her consistent positive contributions
<coffeecat> Agreed
<bodhi_zazen> Any other comments on Ms. D before the vote ?
<bodhi_zazen> [vote] Ms. Daisy for membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: Ms. Daisy for membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bodhi_zazen
<coffeecat> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from coffeecat
<josephmills> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from josephmills
<Artificial_Intel> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from Artificial_Intel
<Iowan> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Iowan
<bodhi_zazen> [endvote]
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Ms. Daisy for membership
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion carried
<bodhi_zazen> Congrats to Ms. Daisy
<bodhi_zazen> Grenage http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1937708
<bodhi_zazen> Grenage you here ?
<bodhi_zazen> Anyone want to speak for Grenage ?
<nothingspecial> sent appologies, couldn't make it
<bodhi_zazen> [vote] Grenage for membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: Grenage for membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<bodhi_zazen> 0
<meetingology> 0 received from bodhi_zazen
<bodhi_zazen> Any other votes =)
<Iowan> 0
<meetingology> 0 received from Iowan
<Artificial_Intel> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Artificial_Intel
<coffeecat> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from coffeecat
<bodhi_zazen> [endvote]
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Grenage for membership
<meetingology> Votes for:2 Votes against:0 Abstentions:2
<meetingology> Motion carried
<bodhi_zazen> Congrats to Grenage
<bodhi_zazen> papibe http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1941126
<bodhi_zazen> papibe here ?
<papibe> yes
<bodhi_zazen> \o/
<nothingspecial> \o/
<bodhi_zazen> welcome, thank you for attending
<papibe> :)
<bodhi_zazen> Anyone not know papibe ?
<bodhi_zazen> Long standing , knowledgeable, contributing member
<bodhi_zazen> I can not think of a better candidate, should have happened sooner
<bodhi_zazen> =)
<nothingspecial> +1 bodhi_zazen
<bodhi_zazen> Any other comments ?
<Iowan> texicAn? ;)
<bodhi_zazen> [vote] papibe for membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: papibe for membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bodhi_zazen
<coffeecat> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from coffeecat
<Artificial_Intel> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Artificial_Intel
<jinjorge> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from jinjorge
<Iowan> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Iowan
<bodhi_zazen> [endvote]
<meetingology> Voting ended on: papibe for membership
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<bodhi_zazen> Congrats papibe
<papibe> Thanks!
<nothingspecial> congrats papibe
<bodhi_zazen> And I hope we can entice you to participate on #ubuntuforums =)
<forestpiskie> congrats papibe
<forestpiskie> I tried bodhi_zazen
<bodhi_zazen> matt_symes http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1936056
<papibe> special thanks to nothingspecial, for contacting me and guiding me to the process
<bodhi_zazen> matt_symes here ?
<nothingspecial> :)
<matt_symes> yes :)
<bodhi_zazen> \o/
<matt_symes> \o/
<nothingspecial> \o/
<bodhi_zazen> cant talk bad about you then matt_symes
<nlsthzn> congrats papibe
<coffeecat> \o/
<matt_symes> :)
<bodhi_zazen> thank you for coming =)
<bodhi_zazen> Anyone want to speak about matt_symes ?
<matt_symes> thanks for having me
<coffeecat> No hesitation in recommending
<forestpiskie> I would say he's a spot on candidate
<nothingspecial> +1 to matt_symes, no brainer imho
<philinux> +1
<CharlesA> +1 here too
<bodhi_zazen> Thanks for your contributions to the forums community matt_symes , it is greatly appreciated by everyone
<bodhi_zazen> [vote] matt_symes for membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: matt_symes for membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bodhi_zazen
<coffeecat> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from coffeecat
<Artificial_Intel> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Artificial_Intel
<Iowan> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Iowan
<bodhi_zazen> [endvote]
<meetingology> Voting ended on: matt_symes for membership
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<Effenberg0x0> Congrats Matt :)
<nothingspecial> \o/ /o\ \o/
<bodhi_zazen> Congrats matt_symes
<matt_symes> Thankyou. :)
<nlsthzn> congrats matt_symes
<coffeecat> Congrats matt_symes
<bodhi_zazen> matt_symes: hope we can also entice you to #ubuntuforums
<CharlesA> congrats matt_symes :-)
<matt_symes> thanks. You've made my week !
<njin> congrats
<nothingspecial> he's there's
<bodhi_zazen> [topic]OPEN FLOOR
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: OPEN FLOOR
<phillw> o/
<bodhi_zazen> Sorry if I rushed a few topics , though I would have to go by now
<bodhi_zazen> phillw: your up
<phillw> bodhi_zazen: is it preferred to use #ubuntuforums over the ##ufbt now?
<bodhi_zazen> Who wants to add the new members to LP etc ?
<bodhi_zazen> yes
<phillw> I'll alter my logins. Thanks,
<philinux> o/
<bodhi_zazen> It is on my todo list to step down from the beginners team
<bodhi_zazen> ##ufbt was sort of a transitional channel, I think we have re-established at #ubuntuforums
<bodhi_zazen> I think I un-registered ##ufbt
 * Sidewinder1 Never heard of ##ufbt.
<forestpiskie> old story now Sidewinder1
<bodhi_zazen> Sidewinder1: don't worry about it, sort of old history now
<Sidewinder1> NP
<coffeecat> New members - I can do that if you like bodhi_zazen. Tomorrow, though.
<bodhi_zazen> great, thank you
<bodhi_zazen> Let me know if you need help
<philinux> o/
<coffeecat> I think I;ve got the hang of it now! ;)
<bodhi_zazen> coffeecat: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=11659124&postcount=3
<bodhi_zazen> let me know if I need to update that ^^
<coffeecat> I wrote that! :)
<coffeecat> Will do.
<bodhi_zazen> coffeecat: how about if we give you the welcome message this month then
<bodhi_zazen> Artificial_Intel: can you add the new members please http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1919213
<coffeecat> I'm OK with that.
<philinux> How do people find T&E forum now
<coffeecat> The link in the welcome pm needs to be made clickable. I'll do that too.
<bodhi_zazen> I would like to the the FC "trained" on how to do these things
<Artificial_Intel> aye, I'll do it
<bodhi_zazen> thanks coffeecat and Artificial_Intel
<bodhi_zazen> If you need help let me know
<coffeecat> Just to be clear. AI for the new members and me for the welcome pm?
<bodhi_zazen> yes please coffeecat
<coffeecat> OK. :)
<Artificial_Intel> It will be done tomorrow morning :)
<bodhi_zazen> No rush Artificial_Intel , last month I took a few days if I recall
<bodhi_zazen> I will do the mailing list this month
<bodhi_zazen> That leaves s-fox with the admin thread in the staff section =)
<Artificial_Intel> he'll be thrilled :P
<bodhi_zazen> Any other questions / issues for the FC ?
<Iowan> (so will she)
<coffeecat> bodhi_zazen, philinux had a question.
<Iowan> he alredy left
<bodhi_zazen> OK, anything else ?
<bodhi_zazen> It is really great to see things getting back on track, thank you to everyone, I really appreciate all the assistance
<bodhi_zazen> I am sorry things got a little off track in the past
<Artificial_Intel> no problem.
<forestpiskie> such is life bodhi_zazen
<forestpiskie> future is what counts
<phillw> bodhi_zazen: good to see things resurrected :)
<bodhi_zazen> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Mar 27 20:32:40 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-27-19.07.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-27-19.07.html
<Sidewinder1> Have a nice one, ALL.. o/
<Artificial_Intel> now free bar!!!
<Iowan> My goal in life is to solve more problems than I create
<forestpiskie> thanks for chairing bodhi_zazen
<CharlesA> woohoo free bar!
<coffeecat> And cake!
<matt_symes> o/
<bodhi_zazen> cheesecake
<wildmanne39> yum
<Effenberg0x0> Many of you (and others that unfortunately are not here) have directly helped me by supporting my activities, with encouragement and recognition, or directly answering to my (many!) requests and questions. Thank you all. I feel really humbled.
<CharlesA> mmm cheesecake
<Iowan> OMGCC?
<CharlesA> Iowan: yes that!
<Artificial_Intel> time to get some rest, cya all.
<bodhi_zazen> Iowan: viperChief is in #ubuntuforums
<m_oergaes> Bye!
<Iowan> bodhi_zazen:  ???
<bodhi_zazen> Iowan: do you know who viperChief is ?
<Iowan> Yup
<Iowan> ER, no
<Iowan> I wanna know - dyslexic
<bodhi_zazen> ViperChief runs OMGCC
<bodhi_zazen> he is the OMGCC admin
<Iowan> must like Ubuntu IRC's
<bodhi_zazen> codependency Iowan
<bodhi_zazen> I hate you, please don't leave
<bodhi_zazen> later everyone =)
<papibe> bye bz
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-03-28
 * slangasek waves
<jodh> o/
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Mar 28 15:05:09 2012 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek ogra infinity cjwatson)
<slangasek> barry stgraber ev cjwatson slangasek infinity bdmurray doko ogra jodh
<barry> bug 959724; bug 941790; bug 960595 (reviewed and tested); bug 966257; bug 966521; (other flufl.* package updates in debian); dmb meeting; upgrade issues (problems w/unity, unity2d/3d testing, desktop failures); boring stuff: expense reports, perf reviews, pycon catchup. â
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 959724 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Limit boot loader installation target" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/959724
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 941790 in unity "Emacs window shrinks automatically" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/941790
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 960595 in python-scipy (Debian) "FFe for python3 scipy packages" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/960595
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 966257 in flufl.enum (Ubuntu) "[FFe] sync to latest Debian version" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/966257
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 966521 in flufl.bounce (Ubuntu) "[FFe] sync flufl.{bounce,password,i18n,lock} from Debian" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/966521
<stgraber> Bugs, bugs, bugs...
<stgraber> - ISO tracker
<stgraber>  - Discussed the hardware profile API with cr3, now waiting for implementation
<stgraber>  - Wrote a new script to push new netboot images to the tracker everytime we have a d-i build
<stgraber>  - Created localized ISO tracker at http://localized-iso.qa.ubuntu.com
<stgraber>  - Rewrote LP integration script to use storm and the API, much cleaner and much faster
<stgraber>  - Major bug cleanup, went from 85 down to just 14, now working on fixing the remaining ones
<stgraber> - Installer
<stgraber>  - Quite a lot of ubiquity bug fixes
<stgraber>  - Uploaded new ubiquity slideshow and did some cleanup of the bugs
<stgraber> - Containers
<stgraber>  - (RELEASE) LXC now works properly with apparmor blocking most of the known security issues.
<stgraber>  - (RELEASE) Released arkose 1.5.1 (bugfix and translations update)
<stgraber> - TPM
<stgraber>  - Did some more bugfixing of opencryptoki's packaging
<stgraber> - Other
<stgraber>  - Improved queuebot to work with all releases, the NEW queue and with the ISO tracker
<stgraber>  - Released and uploaded a new LTSP bugfix release, 5.3.6
<stgraber>  - Made pastebinit use the langpacks for translations
<stgraber> - TODO this week
<stgraber>  - Continue working on bugs
<stgraber> (DONE)
<slangasek> ev's off today; cjwatson:
<cjwatson> Extensive Ubiquity test suite fixes.
<cjwatson> OpenSSL 1.0.1.
<cjwatson> Half-day patch piloting.
<cjwatson> Updated my Lucid OpenSSH backport PPA.
<cjwatson> Beta 2 preparation.  Various small fixes all over the place.  Lots of archive administration.
<cjwatson> More secure boot discussions.
<cjwatson> Fixed auto-upgrade-tester's detection of obsolete conffiles.
<cjwatson> Landed a few miscellaneous Launchpad branches, including a slight NewReleaseCycleProcess simplification that removes another need for archive admin lp_publish access.
<cjwatson> Worked on Launchpad branch to open up -proposed for use during development.  Nearly finished.
<cjwatson> Performance self-review.
<cjwatson> ..
<slangasek> partner archive work
<infinity> Sorry I'm late.
<slangasek> performance self-review
<slangasek> picking off obsolete conffiles from the jenkins upgrade reports
<doko> ahh, the self-review ...
<slangasek> misc beta-2 helping
<slangasek> ..
<slangasek> infinity: hey there - you're next
<infinity> Oh.  I'm not awake enough to be next.
<slangasek> bdrung:
<slangasek> sorry
<slangasek> bdmurray:
<bdmurray> bug triage of foundation's hottest bugs
<bdmurray> bug triage of iso-testing bug reports
<bdmurray> fixed ubiquity bug 960278
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 960278 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubiquity crashed with UnicodeEncodeError in debug(): 'ascii' codec can't encode character u'\xe9' in position 55: ordinal not in range(128)" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/960278
<bdmurray> wrote a bug pattern for bug 929219
<bdmurray> cleaning up duplicates of bug 891711 and bug 944191
<bdmurray> modifications to cbd to remove tasks no longer matching criteria
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 929219 in eglibc (Ubuntu Precise) "chromium-browser crashed with SIGSEGV in __nscd_get_mapping()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/929219
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 891711 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Fails to copy directory over symlink (e.g. /var/lock when downgrading from 11.10 to 11.04)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/891711
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 944191 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Installation program crashed while typing username" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/944191
<bdmurray> blog post regarding hottest bugs charts
<bdmurray> testing apport kerneloops no package hook run issue
<bdmurray> done
<doko> - vacation last week
<doko> - catch up with email
<doko> - started test rebuild
<doko> - prepared packages for gcc-4.7 test rebuild
<doko> - gccgo-4.7.0
<doko> - Linaro call
<ogra_> done ?
 * ogra_ assumes so 
<ogra_> done:
<ogra_>  * bugwork on 960710 (jasper doesnt enable deb-src on preinstalled images)
<ogra_>  * lots of (time consuming) debugging work on bug 961133
<ogra_>  * uploaded pvr sgx driver (sitting in NEW to go to multiverse, then we can add the compiz GLES patch and add jasper support for pvr)
<ogra_>  * started reworking partman-uboot for vfat to fix bug 872525 (thabnks colin for pointing to it)
<ogra_>  * stopwatched initrdless boot on panda to serial login prompt: with initrd 50sec, without initrd 25sec. so dropping the initrd from panda installs would win us 25sec
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 961133 in linux (Ubuntu) "No video output from Ubuntu Desktop ARM Images on my Pandaboard to my DVI monitor" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/961133
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 872525 in partman-uboot (Ubuntu Precise) "No option for u-boot partition on armel omap/omap4 platforms" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/872525
<ogra_>    (note that u-boot initialization takes about 10sec)
<ogra_>  * lots of arm community support
<ogra_>  * self review done)
<ogra_> beta2:
<ogra_>  * tested ac100 images and fixed a minor issue
<ogra_>  * tested omap4 images
<ogra_>  * still testing omap3
<ogra_> todo:
<ogra_>  * merge compiz GLES patch once the driver is up
<ogra_>  * look into jockey PVR driver integration
<ogra_>  * look into fsck slowdown
<ogra_>  * finish partman-uboot rewrite for omap3/4
<ogra_>  * peer reviews
<ogra_> the initrdless boot stuff was very intresting ... jodh i still see upstart complain about ptys btw ... but it finishes the boot
<jodh> yes, it will complain, then fall back to "console none".
<jodh> Maybe we'll bundle mountall into upstart for Q? :)
<jodh> ogra_: done?
<ogra_> dropping the initrd on arm got me at best 12sec boots (from loading kernel to login prompt) since i stopwatch its not very precise so i took the worst measuring ... but it looks like we can cut boottime in half on pandas with dropping initrd
<ogra_> (sorry was typing)
<ogra_> done ;)
<jodh> * [misc]
<jodh>   * Performance self+mgr review.
<jodh>   * Put PPU application together.
<jodh> * [boot/upstart]
<jodh>   * [#] Upstart 1.5 release and associated Ubuntu merge.
<jodh>   * Big update to upstart-events(7).
<jodh>   * Upstart Cookbook updates.
<jodh>   * Lots of IRC today discussion (resulting in another pending Cookbook update).
<jodh> * [boot/plymouth]
<jodh>   * Working on Plymouth SIGSEGV bugs (553745, 849414).
<jodh> â°
<jodh>  
<jodh> ogra_: nice!
<slangasek> ogra_: how does that compare with the boot time when using a "minimal" initrd, which I think was the other part of that comparison that the kernel team wanted?
<ogra_> yes, its pretty impressive
<slangasek> (i.e., an initramfs that doesn't start udev or contain modules, just immediately resolves the rootfs and pivots)
<ogra_> right, havent tested that yet
<slangasek> ok
<ogra_> but given that the loading even of a very small file in u-boot doesnt happen under 5 sec ...
<slangasek> ogra_: ah :)
<cjwatson> what's it doing?!
<infinity> Your uBoot seems a lot sadder than mine...
<ogra_> i'll test with the minimal one for getting the numbers at least
<cjwatson> Reparsing a filesystem every time or something?
<cjwatson> (and badly, presumably)
<ogra_> it loads the file from slow media (SD), then removes the header and suffles it around in ram
<ogra_> *shuffles
<slangasek> and using a terrible i/o implementation for the load, too
<ogra_> i'm sure it can be made faster on the ram side
<ogra_> but the SD is always in the way
<cjwatson> slangasek: right, that wouldn't have accounted for 5s on small files on its own though
<slangasek> yeah
<slangasek> infinity: your turn again
<infinity> - fix p11-kit bug 911436 in two ways
<infinity> - performance reviews (manager + self)
<infinity> - beta 2 release management involvement
<infinity> - land lp-buildd performance improvements, and coordinate roll out
<infinity> - work with IS on reallocation of beagles as livefs buildds
<infinity> - look into bug 965840
<infinity> - review PVR drivers and offer feedback for 959924
<infinity> - start work on bug 759545
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 911436 in p11-kit (Ubuntu) "https crashed with SIGSEGV in lookup_or_create_bucket()" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/911436
<infinity> done
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 965840 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu Precise) "Need to apply patch: "ARM: Do not call flush_cache_user_range with mmap_sem held"" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/965840
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 759545 in grub2 (Ubuntu Precise) "user prompted to update unmodified grub configuration during Ubuntu server upgrade" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/759545
<infinity> Hrm, forgot the bug keyword for bug 959924
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 959924 in Ubuntu Precise "[needs-packaging] pvr sgx driver and kernel module for Pandaboard" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/959924
<slangasek> great
<ogra_> any issues with the drivers ?
<infinity> ogra_: The first time around, I bounced them back to ricardo and he completely repackaged them.
<infinity> ogra_: I haven't had a chance to review the second roung. :)
<ogra_> ah, k
<infinity> round*
<ogra_> :)
<slangasek> any other questions on any of the above?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<cjwatson> stgraber: I'd just like to say thanks again for the queuebot improvements - it's fantastic now
<slangasek> bdmurray: what's hot in bugland?
<infinity> cjwatson: You can blame me for nagging him every 3 minutes with weird suggestions. :P
<stgraber> cjwatson: np :)
<bdmurray> well, I happened to be looking at hot bugs recently and ran across bug 606491
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 606491 in anacron (Ubuntu) "start: Job is already running: anacron" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/606491
<bdmurray> which may be related to bug 226780
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 226780 in apt (Ubuntu) "apt-key net-update does not obey APT::Acquire::http::Proxy" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/226780
<slangasek> 606491> interesting
<slangasek> I wonder if that's really an anacron bug
<slangasek> or if it should be handled as a bug in whatever job is hanging
<slangasek> (i.e., apt)
<infinity> If apt really is hanging.
<infinity> And for what definition of "hang".
 * slangasek adds this to the queue for further investigation
<bdmurray> that's all I have so far - lots of iso-testing bugs to look at
<jodh> Hmm... anacron seems to be everywhere - /etc/apm/event.d/anacron
<cjwatson> Nothing looked too terrible when I looked earlier today, but no doubt there've been a slew since then
<cjwatson> (of iso-testing)
<slangasek> bug #966403 is the one on my radar from iso testing
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 966403 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "Lubuntu Install (entire disk with encryption) doesn't prompt for disk password." [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/966403
<slangasek> I'll see if I can't get to the bottom of that today
<slangasek> UnreportableReason: This is not an official Ubuntu package. Please remove any third party package and try again.
<slangasek> huh, why's *that* in the bug report?
<ogra_> theming issue eh ? *g*
<slangasek> maybe
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<slangasek> thanks again everyone for the great work last week on the installer sprint - and for being flexible in your working hours
<phillw> +1
<barry> it was fun and productive!
<ogra_> ++
<stgraber> +1
<ogra_> btw, if that didnt come across ... i didnt mind the virtual jetlag actually :)
<slangasek> heh :)
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Mar 28 15:43:20 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-28-15.05.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-28-15.05.html
<slangasek> thanks!
<barry> thanks!
<ogra_> thanks !
<jodh> thanks!
<gema> do we have a QA meeting today?
<gema> or is everybody so busy testing that there is no meeting?
<gema> balloons: ?
<phillw> gema: we should have at 17:00 UTC (1 hour)
<gema> phillw: 5UTC is right now
<phillw> gema: CurrentÂ UTCÂ (or GMT/Zulu)-time used:Â Wednesday, 28 March 2012, 16:03:56
<gema> or maybe I am wrong, hold on xD
<gema> phillw: ack, got the wrong time
<gema> phillw: thanks :D
<phillw> even I've got http://www.timeanddate.com running to check :)
<gema> awesome website, phillw , much better than asking google every time, thanks :D
<mfisch> Bug control meeting?
<gema> mfisch: I think you are an hour early, the QA meeting is about to start, I hope
<mfisch> stupid daylight savings time
<mfisch> gema: thanks
<phillw> balloons: ping
<phillw> mfisch: http://www.timeanddate.com :) Handy link to book mark :)
<mfisch> I'm going to put it in my calendar as GMT and let the calendar figure it out from now on
<balloons> phillw, pong
<phillw> balloons: ahh :) are we having a meeting?
<balloons> did everyone get confused on the time?
 * balloons was just reading above
<balloons> hopefully not..
<balloons> anyways, yes let's begin
<phillw> balloons: only one person admitted to it. mf is an hour early for bugs
<balloons> #startmeeting ubuntu qa community
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Mar 28 17:07:32 2012 UTC.  The chair is balloons. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu qa community Meeting | Current topic:
<balloons> so who is here?
<balloons> :-)
<phillw> o/
<phillw> hmm, gema was here 5 mins ago?
<balloons> lol
<balloons> yes..
<gema> I will be on and off, sorry guys, I am cooking :)
<balloons> I had hoped to get jibel and some others as well
<balloons> yummy gem
<gema> balloons: it is 7pm for jibel
<balloons> ahh..
<phillw> we'll be round in an hour :)
<balloons> and for you
<gema> 6pm
<phillw> 6pm also
<balloons> ok, so let's check the agenda
<gema> hint: beta 2
<balloons> ACTION: phillw to fix feb 29th log, merge them, and make the regex for meetings page display all the logs again (balloons, 16:07:36)
 * phillw done :)
<MrChrisDruif> 7pm here
<balloons> [TOPIC] Previous Actions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu qa community Meeting | Current topic:  Previous Actions
<balloons> awesome phillw I see it's been done
<balloons> looks good
<balloons> ACTION: balloons to send results of poll and provide the most suitable timeframes for one last round of polling. (balloons, 16:19:01)
<phillw> it was the best I could without spending hours on the merge
<balloons> This I also did.. Which I trust will help us by moving the time to something more convinent for everyone
<phillw> balloons: what was the decision?
<balloons> so, let's talk about the results
<balloons> this was round 1.. if you'll remember: http://whenisgood.net/mzs4etp/results/x83kbr
<balloons> for round 2, we picked 1 time slot perday and got people to vote
<balloons> I was waiting hoping the time would be broken, but sadly we had 2 votes each option monday, tuesday, weds, thursday
<balloons> no friday votes
<balloons> This is the form https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dFRBUjJ6ZVN0dk9YVDBvbmVhQ2VpQmc6MQ
<balloons> So I'd like to make a decision now based upon that feedback, by also looking at the earlier survey to break the tie
<balloons> make sense?
<phillw> balloons: discard my vote... does that help enay?
<phillw> *any*
<balloons> heh
<balloons> not really
<balloons> I'm basically looking at doing it weds at 1400 I *think*
<balloons> that gets us several people I know want to attend..
<balloons> and is one of the best options from the survey
<phillw> okies, weds 14:00 is fine by me :)
<balloons> tues @ 1900 UTC is the other strong response
<balloons> but our poor european friends.. it's already so late for them
<phillw> hmm, yeah 8pm is well past food time!
<balloons> so I guess 1400 it is
<balloons> same day, earlier time
<balloons> [ACTION] balloons to announce new time for QA meeting, 1400 UTC weds
<meetingology> ACTION: balloons to announce new time for QA meeting, 1400 UTC weds
<balloons> alrighty
<balloons> so let's move on
<balloons> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Updates
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu qa community Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Updates
<balloons> I think gema dropped.. but as everyone knows it's beta 2 season
<balloons> the beta should drop final tomorrow sometime
<balloons> not much else to say.. the u+1 team has been busy helping out with iso testing
<balloons> the lubuntu folks worked well last week with the ubiquity sprint
<balloons> lots of good focused work being done
<balloons> bugs squashed ;-)
<balloons> roginac, kaldor and myself converted the checkbox tests to the new qt format and those will be used for the app testing after beta2 is released
<balloons> the new gui is much nicer than the old gtk gui
<balloons> as an fyi, the repo has migrated as well to https://code.launchpad.net/~nskaggs/checkbox/checkbox-app-testing-qt
<balloons> questions?
<balloons> ok.
<balloons> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Flavor Updates
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu qa community Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Flavor Updates
<balloons> phillw, I think it's just you on this one
<balloons> :-)
<balloons> anything to share
<phillw> It has gone fantastically well, until we started counting chickens before they hatched and got stung with bug 967257 about an hour ago. Work is on going as we speak. 27th March was okay, so there is a fall back if needed.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 967257 in lubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "PPC Install CD from 28 Mar does not boot" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/967257
<balloons> wow.. bizarre
<phillw> a real pain.
<balloons> I'll bet..
<balloons> well.. I'd like to end this one early and plan for a big group next time :-)
<phillw> fine :)
<balloons> phillw, thanks for coming.. remember the new time
<balloons> and we'll see more faces next week
<balloons> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Mar 28 17:28:54 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-28-17.07.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-28-17.07.html
<phillw> thasnks for chairing balloons
<kangarooo> meetingology	Meeting started Wed Mar 28 15:05:09 2012 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> kangarooo: Error: "Meeting" is not a valid command.
<slangasek> #endmeeting
<slangasek> ?
<kangarooo> bots link is giving . at end and in irc log it gives link with . and that link doesnt exist.
<slangasek> ah
<slangasek> not something I can fix :)
<kangarooo> where to post bug?
<kangarooo> about thhis bot and .
<kangarooo> af found- ubuntu-bots
<bdmurray> anybody here for the bug squad meeting?
<kangarooo> heeyee
<bdmurray> kangarooo: was that a yes?
<kangarooo> no but if others will ill too
<Unit193> There's the guy all my wiki edits go to. >_>
<kangarooo> anyone else? sometimes meetings are empty or wait time needed?
<kangarooo> if no qourum then no meeting?
<mfisch> bug meeting?
<kangarooo> mfisch: si
<bdmurray> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Mar 28 18:05:34 2012 UTC.  The chair is bdmurray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<bdmurray> #topic Previous Actions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Previous Actions
<bdmurray> there were no actions from the last meeting
<bdmurray> #topic Engineering Bug Status
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Engineering Bug Status
<bdmurray> I'm looking into an issue with apport and kerneloops reports missing log files from the linux package hook at the moment
<kangarooo> oh thats great
<kangarooo> i dont know whats kernelloops? i need to say something?
<bdmurray> and I wrote a blog post about visualizing bug heat http://www.murraytwins.com/blog/?p=114
<mfisch> kernel oops
<kangarooo> #idea that needs to be fixed
<bdmurray> lots of ubiquity bugs to review with the iso-testing going on
<bdmurray> that's about it here. Ursinha, jsalisbury?
<kangarooo> yes i also posted 2
<kangarooo> 2 bugs about ubiquity dying at end
<mfisch> I think we need to be careful when responding to people who subscribe bugs to our list
<mfisch> s/careful/more careful/
<bdmurray> mfisch: could we talk about that in a couple of minutes?
<mfisch> bdmurray: sure, sorry for hijacking ;)
<bdmurray> #topic Bug Escalations (any High or Critical bugs that community members have seen that need attention)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bug Escalations (any High or Critical bugs that community members have seen that need attention)
<kangarooo> bdmurray: yes #idea about bug heat sorting and graphical view is helpfull to distinguish priority bugs
<bdmurray> kangarooo: are the bugs you ran into high or critical types of bugs?
<kangarooo> im opening gmail to find most ignored for my laptops
<kangarooo> 1min
<kangarooo> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/907544
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 907544 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "Asus eee pc x101 doesnt work sound shortcuts" [Low,Incomplete]
<kangarooo> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/787257
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 787257 in ubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "10.04.2 Widescreen laptop has boot screen 1/10 times and for 2 last seconds of boot" [Undecided,New]
<kangarooo> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/889586
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 765438 in linux (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #889586 On startup, the backlight is off on laptop" [Undecided,Triaged]
<kangarooo> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/912046
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 912046 in linux (Ubuntu) "11.10 black screen- nothing seenable on laptop" [Undecided,Expired]
<kangarooo> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/912046
<kangarooo> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/950919
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 950919 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "12.04 ubuntu beta 1 black screen" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<kangarooo> thats main for now.
<bdmurray> kangarooo: that's quiet a few to look at - I don't think all of them are high or critical but a couple do look important
<bdmurray> kangarooo: can I follow up with you in #ubuntu-bugs after the meeting?
<kangarooo> ok
<bdmurray> #topic Other Topics
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Other Topics
<bdmurray> mfisch: were you talking about ubuntu-bugcontrol being subscribed to a bug report?
<mfisch> bdmurray: yeah, I think we just need to be more careful in responses.  People who do stuff like that don't know our process, they're just trying to get help.
<mfisch> bdmurray: I'm referring to the email I got this morning "please dont subscribe this list to every bug under the sun" (paraphrased)
<mfisch> bdmurray: thats it from me
<bdmurray> mfisch: I agree more tact could have been used.  Do you have any idea on how we could spread this idea?
<mfisch> bdmurray: well we could have a canned response for this which may help, but if you take the attitude that people are not doing this out of spite, but out of ignorance, I think it helps
<kangarooo> +1
<mfisch> we all get annoyed when people keep doing things like this, gnome-nettools has maybe 30 dupes of the same bug?
<mfisch> I just sigh and post the canned response and keep any irritation to myself
<bdmurray> Ah, yes a standard reply makes sense.  Would you mind drafting one?
<mfisch> bdmurray: I knew I should have kept quiet!   ;)    Sure, I'll put it on my to do list
<kangarooo> +1 to todo list equals now 1020482 things to do :) we can post bug and anyone can edit it.
<kangarooo> so anyone can edit canned response draft
<kangarooo> so we dont force google docs for collaborating in making draft of canned response
<bdmurray> kangarooo: the standard replies are in a wiki page already
<mfisch> yes
<kangarooo> ok ill look up
<mfisch> I will work on it this week, just not today
<bdmurray> #action mfisch to draft a reply for the situation where someone subsribes a team to a bug report
<meetingology> ACTION: mfisch to draft a reply for the situation where someone subsribes a team to a bug report
<bdmurray> okay anything else?
<kangarooo> making logs like thees in video so ppl who dont use irc can get in bugging https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/devweek1201/FixingSmallBugs
<kangarooo> VIdeo team?
<bdmurray> kangarooo: that's not really something the bug squad can help with
<kangarooo> ah ok for different meeting then. ill just start making this king of videos then team
<bdmurray> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Mar 28 18:35:32 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-28-18.05.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-28-18.05.html
<kangarooo> WOW this bot rocks. finally great way to sum meeting. where to see other meetings ? is there auto generated index page of meeting names?
<phillw> kangarooo: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/
<kangarooo> thx phillw cool but there isnt todays meeting and isnt folder #ubuntu-meeting
<kangarooo> cooler would be if automated index with names of meetings (it topic names) in index list
<kangarooo> this is latest http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/meetingology/2012/meetingology.2012-03-20-08.07.moin.txt but today was also meetings and todays meeting isnt there
<phillw> kangarooo: you would need to ask it's author about that. I think that like most bots they update hourly, but I do not know its inner workings.
<kangarooo> it should be just php witch lists content of folders.. so no automation required woulde be then
<kangarooo> s/automation/updating
<kangarooo> couse then with php it would listing and showing all content
<kangarooo> ok ill bug him
<kangarooo> bdmurray: i added canned response in wiki https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses
<amjjawad> Yorvyk: Hi, I will give my notes after you :)
<amjjawad> I'll be there but my eyes on the match
<Yorvyk> amjjawad:  OK,  whos going to win
<amjjawad> Yorvyk: it is 0-0 now :(
<phillw> please note: tonight's lubuntu meeting is in #lubuntu-offtopic.
<Yorvyk> Oops
<MrChrisDruif> phillw; nope, we can do it here
<MrChrisDruif> Edubuntu was previous hour
<amjjawad> So where is the meeting???
<phillw> MrChrisDruif: can everyone make their mind up?
<gilir> let's make it here
<phillw> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/IRC%20Meetings/Agenda
<MrChrisDruif> I made a mistake with adding the meeting to the Fridge
<phillw> okies.
<MrChrisDruif> Forgot about daylight saving time
<MrChrisDruif> gilir; #startmeeting ?
<gilir> #startmeeting Lubuntu Team Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Mar 28 20:03:24 2012 UTC.  The chair is gilir. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:
<phillw> kicks MrChrisDruif
<gilir> o/
<MGandTL> o/
<gastly> o/
<amjjawad> I will be the last to give my report :0
<phillw> o/
<amjjawad> :)
<kanliot> o/
<MrChrisDruif> \o
<MrChrisDruif> Ouch phillw
<gilir> Agenda is here : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/IRC%20Meetings/Agenda
<Yorvyk> o/
<MrChrisDruif> I don't have an issue with moving amjjawad's topic up
<gilir> a lot of people today :)
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, let's keep the Agenda like this
<gilir> #topic gilir - Review ACTIONS from the last meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  gilir - Review ACTIONS from the last meeting
<gilir> amjjawad, I have FB open, be prepare :p
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, any luck in Lightdm documentation ?
<amjjawad> gilir: My right eye is here and my left on the match :D
<MrChrisDruif> I've send an email to one of the most prominent developers of lightdm, unfortunately I haven't gotten any responses
<MrChrisDruif> So it seems I've got to trace all the functions back myself
<MrChrisDruif> Nothing else on that subject
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, "man lightdm" shoudl be a good start
<phillw> MrChrisDruif: I'll ask if I can get someone to 'poke' them :)
<MrChrisDruif> gilir; did you look at man lightdm? I did
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, yes, you have the conf files there, which should be documented
<MrChrisDruif> Alright, might be handy for a bit
<gilir> but the conf file I have, is pretty small :/
<MrChrisDruif> Like I said, I'll have to trace back all the functions
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, you can look at the upstream one : http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lightdm-team/lightdm/trunk/view/head:/data/lightdm.conf
<gilir> you should have all the options, with a bit of documentation
<gilir> ok, let's move to next topic, we can talk about this later
<gilir> #topic phillw - Weekly report - Update from QA meeting and team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  phillw - Weekly report - Update from QA meeting and team
<phillw> I am pleased to announce that Lubuntu is all systems GO for beta 2.
<phillw> Some outstanding minor bugs and the release team are looking into the problem with encrypted ~home as a post beta 2 fix.
<Yorvyk> \o/
<phillw> I'd like to put on record thanks to the release team from ubuntu and our fantastic testers.
<phillw> We are acknowledged as having a brilliant group of testers by the whole of 'QA' and Release team.
<gilir> great, I'm impressed by the work the ISO testers have done, really great job ! :)
<phillw> nice and short :)
<phillw> Everyone has gone the extra mile
<phillw> we have application testing coming up next, so I'll try to get my head round that for lubuntu specific things that need testing
<phillw> any Questions?
<gilir> I think it's ok, thanks again phillw :)
<gilir> #topic Unit193 - Weekly report - Update from IRC OP's team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Unit193 - Weekly report - Update from IRC OP's team
<gilir> seems ok for IRC (from another chan :))
<Unit193> Right, other than a few things going on, nothing I can think of.l
<phillw> it is a nil report from them
<gilir> #kanliot - Weekly report - Update from comms team
<kanliot> hi
<gilir> #topic kanliot - Weekly report - Update from comms team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  kanliot - Weekly report - Update from comms team
<kanliot> did amjjawad get his admin rights on facebook?
<kanliot> otherwise i'm not sure about progress
<amjjawad> kanliot: not yet :)
<gilir> kanliot, will do after the meeting
<kanliot> it was an action item
<kanliot> anyhow
<kanliot> mario is acting as a go between
<kanliot> between the comms team and the osuosl which hosts lubuntu.net
<kanliot> we might have a problem with getting a drupal 7 site there.
<kanliot> sounds bad
<kanliot> also i would like to know who has the domain name
<kanliot> ok im finished
<jmarsden|work> kanliot: Mario is both admin and tech contact for the lubuntu.net domain, as whois lubuntu.net will show
<amjjawad> can we fix the www.lubuntu.net issue???
<kanliot> i asked mario to introduce me to the osuosl people
<amjjawad> there is no "www" in our website and whoever type it, he/she gets error
<kanliot> next week we will know if mario did the introduction or not
<kanliot> sorry for slow progress
<jmarsden|work> amjjawad: Needs an apache server config change by a server admin... noone here has those priviledges AFAIK
<kanliot> thanks jmarsden that would be the fix to get www.lubuntu.net working
<amjjawad> jmarsden|work: ok thanks for the info and I do hope we can fix that :)
<jmarsden|work> kanliot: correct.
<kanliot> but my problem is that it might be that we need to redo the new website for an older version of drupal
<phillw> jmarsden|work: phillw facepalms at the idea of a server admin would not have put the alias in, but ... there you go :/
<kanliot> so i need to confirm that
<jmarsden|work> phillw: I've seen it before, which is how I know what the problem is :)
<Yorvyk> phillw:  It's not uncommon.
<phillw> gilir: can I discuss hosting with you after the meeting?
<jmarsden|work> phillw: Only after he gives amjjawad Facebook admin rights :)
<gilir> phillw, can we do it by mail ? I need go after the meeting
<phillw> gilir: sure.
<gilir> ok, thanks kanliot the update , anything to add ?
<kanliot> no
<gilir> #topic gilir - Weekly report - Update from Devs teams
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  gilir - Weekly report - Update from Devs teams
<MrChrisDruif> I hope my connection will stay functioning long enough to finish the meeting
<gilir> I'm working on some fixes to be uploaded post-beta-2
<gilir> with beta 2 testing, we had also some more bugs to fix :)
 * phillw sorry boss :)
<gilir> nothing more to add, any questions ?
<gilir> phillw, it's better to see them now ;)
<phillw> we have a darn good beta 2, thank you and the devs.
<gilir> good to know, I'm still seeing to much bug for me :)
<phillw> paper cuts, mostly.
<gilir> #topic  MrChrisDruif - Weekly report - Update from Docs team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  MrChrisDruif - Weekly report - Update from Docs team
<MrChrisDruif> I haven't had the time/motivation to rewrite the RemovingOldKernels page to the command jmarsden|work suggested
<MrChrisDruif> And LightDM we've already discussed
<MrChrisDruif> And I've heard from phillw that instructions from the ubuntuforums should be moved to the wiki
<gilir> yes, maybe some of them are useful as wiki pages
<MrChrisDruif> But that task will be pretty daunting, seeing amjjawad's LOST is pretty big
<MrChrisDruif> But I had that in the pipeline as a to-do already, so no big surprise there
<jmarsden|work> MrChrisDruif: I think it is just the first part of it that would be worth turning into a wiki page
<MrChrisDruif> I haven't looked at the LOST, so I can't judge that jmarsden|work
<kanliot> amjjawad still owns LOST
<kanliot> even though it's Lubuntu"  it might not be a community effort
<kanliot> if he built the thing himself
<gilir> jmarsden|work, you mean the 1st message of the thread ?
<MrChrisDruif> And I've "restructered" the docs team. I've removed about everyone that wasn't active and new member have to go through a two month trail period
<MrChrisDruif> I have no need for badge collectors in my team
<jmarsden|work> So.. does amjjawad want to be the one to wikify "his" thread, saving MrChrisDruif some work??
<kanliot> so i'm saying there's a difference between community property and amjawad's property
<MrChrisDruif> That would be very nice if he could do that (he is still part of the docs team)
<kanliot> just build a new one from scratch
<phillw> just so the meeting is aware, what has been requested is that tutorial threads follow http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1193567 so the tutorial bit is on wiki & the discussion is on forum
<phillw> #link http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1193567
<kanliot> phillw is talking about how the ubuntuforums people?
<kanliot> decided to move all technical docs out of the forum
<kanliot> becasuse the were getting out of date
<kanliot> so now, no tech docs in the forum, everything in the wiki
<phillw> +1
<amjjawad> OK I'm here
<amjjawad> Match is OVER :(
<kanliot> lol
<amjjawad> MrChrisDruif: kanliot and others
<amjjawad> PLEASE
<amjjawad> I did NOT decide yet whether to trun LOST to a Wiki page or not because it does NOT make sense to me YET
<amjjawad> and if that will happen, I will be the one to do that job, period.
<phillw> amjjawad: whether it makes sense, or not. it is a decree soon to be announced on the forum.
<amjjawad> it's NOT that I don't want help but I'm the only one who really understands how things are there and stuff like that
<amjjawad> phillw: with all due respect, you guys still misunderstand LOST
<amjjawad> LOST is NOT all about HOWTOS, wrong. HOWTOs is just ONE little section on the whole thing
<phillw> You will still 'own' the forum area for chat etc. All they are saying is that tech stuff goes onto the wiki where it belongs.
<amjjawad> anyway, long story short, let me worry about it PLEASE
<michael_rawson> amjjawad: well, let us know if you need a hand a any point. :)
<jmarsden|work> amjjawad: What is your timetable for having it turned into a wiki page?  Can you give us an expected date?
<phillw> +1
<MrChrisDruif> Sorry, connections issues in precise it seems (at least I hope it's my pc)
<amjjawad> michael_rawson: as always u r the first in mind :)
<kanliot> amjjawad isn't going to move it to the wiki
<amjjawad> jmarsden|work: sadly I can't but if I start the work, I will focus 100% on taht
<amjjawad> kanliot: please, refer back to what I said earlier ;)
<amjjawad> jmarsden|work: 1-3 days maybe? idk yet
<phillw> amjjawad: you need not do this alone, break it into bite sized pieces and we will all assist from the wiki area.
<jmarsden|work> OK. So by next meeting this will be decided and (hopefully) done.
<amjjawad> phillw: if you want me to do this, you need to know one simple fact
<MrChrisDruif> Yes, let's make it a team effort for a change
<amjjawad> I will send an email after the meeting about that. HOWTOs is a small tiny area form LOST. LOST is an index to ALL the important linnks for Lubuntu
<gilir> amjjawad, be sure to talk to phillw or to docs team people, to know where to put it on the wiki
<amjjawad> so if I want to move the HOWTOs to the wiki, that is a one man job that should NOT take so long
<kanliot> yeah i agree LOST does many different things
<phillw> gilir: we had a practice earlier, and learned :)
<amjjawad> so I promise I will organzie with phillw and MrChrisDruif :)
<kanliot> it is very importatnt considering how our website is outta date
<kanliot> so all we have is LOST
<kanliot> which is another reason to steal it from amjjawad
<gilir> phillw, ok fine :)
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, anything to add for the doc team ?
<amjjawad> Why I'm so strict about it? because I spent days and nights over that thread and I'm sure by the time it takes that someone to really understand how things really work there, i would be done from converting it :P
<MrChrisDruif> I hope everything I said made it through my connection, but I think everything is said
<MrChrisDruif> The restructuring of the team made it through?
<gilir> ok thanks MrChrisDruif :)
<jmarsden|work> MrChrisDruif: Yes
<MrChrisDruif> Alright, then everything I wanted to say made it through
<gilir> #topic Yorvyk - Weekly reminder of upcoming meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Yorvyk - Weekly reminder of upcoming meeting
<Yorvyk> o/
<Yorvyk> There was a request on the list for a reminder to go out about these meetings.
<jmarsden|work> Just set your smartphone or alarm clock or PC calendar app to remind you of meetings... why burden a human with doing something a gadget can do?
<MrChrisDruif> jmarsden|work; cron?
<phillw> jmarsden|work: because we change time & place :)
<gilir> that's was also my opinion when I stoped sending the reminder
<jmarsden|work> We do?  It has been 2000 UTC for a LONG time AFAIK
<gilir> the goal of having the meeting each week is not have to remind it all time :)
<phillw> ahh, but allways in the same place :)
<MrChrisDruif> phillw; you mean *not always* in the same place?
<gilir> UTC doesn't change, but "real" time changed for some people  :)
<phillw> gilir: the goal is to have it AT the same time, just if we do not #ubuntu-meeting, people need to know we are in #lubuntu-offtopic?
<gilir> Yorvyk, anyway, if someone want to send a reminder, I'm not against it
<MrChrisDruif> Yeah, and that got the error in for this week. I apologize for that
<amjjawad> gilir: I was saying that someone needs to send an email in case some changes might happen
<Yorvyk> OK
<gilir> Yorvyk, but, we need to be sure it's correctly booked on the fridge calendar
<gilir> amjjawad, in case of modification, that's make sense
<amjjawad> gilir: +1
<phillw> gilir: then I propose MrChrisDruif to do that, as he books the calender for us.
<amjjawad> phillw: +1 :D
<MrChrisDruif> I'll have a look in "creating a GMT calendar" like the Fridge suggest so I can have an indefinite loop
<gilir> otherwise, well, any phone with a calendar should do the trick :)
<amjjawad> gilir: +1
<phillw> gilir: action it to MrChrisDruif :)
<Yorvyk> OK,  I thought I'd ask as it was mentioned.
<MrChrisDruif> gilir; action me for creating a GMT calendar with no daylight saving for adding to the Fridge
<gilir> #action MrChrisDruif to create meeting event in frige calendar
<meetingology> ACTION: MrChrisDruif to create meeting event in frige calendar
<MrChrisDruif> I know what is meant, I'll get on it
<phillw> thnx
<gilir> you can't action yourself ?
<michael_rawson> thanks MrChrisDruif
<phillw> gilir: not unless you co-host as chair
<gilir> this bot is strict :)
<gilir> ok, let's move to the next item
<MrChrisDruif> I probably could, but you are chair right? ;-)
<gilir> #topic amjjawad - Weekly report - Update from Support Team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  amjjawad - Weekly report - Update from Support Team
<amjjawad> Everything I was about to say has already been said :)
<amjjawad> I was about to talk about LOST :)
<amjjawad> After this meeting, me and phillw will have a chat but not sure where?
<amjjawad> phillw: where shall we chat?
<phillw> amjjawad: in PM
<amjjawad> where? facebook?
<amjjawad> or my email?
<phillw> in the PM I already have open with you.
<gilir> ok, so you can continue after the meeting
<amjjawad> phillw: ok :)
<amjjawad> and ....
<amjjawad> I'm still looking for active members who can help Lubuntu to grow bigger
<amjjawad> I'm hunting :P
<amjjawad> that is all from my side :)
<MrChrisDruif> amjjawad; stand in line please
<amjjawad> MrChrisDruif: ???
<MrChrisDruif> Docs have dips on new members! ;-)
<gilir> thanks amjjawad :)
<amjjawad> gilir: :)
<gilir> #topic Any Other Business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Any Other Business
<gilir> any thing to add before the end of the meeting ?
<phillw> Crazy couple of weeks, but by heck is 12.04 looking good :D
<michael_rawson> phillw, +1
<gilir> yes, and after that, we have to prepare the 12.10
<phillw> thanks to everyone who makes lubuntu...... well lubuntu :)
<MrChrisDruif> Good to hear seeing I'll be putting it on computers of my brother and sister-in-law
<gilir> crazy circle :)
<amjjawad> oh one more thing to add :P
<phillw> circle of life? :)
<amjjawad> I'd like to thank wxl who is not hear right now
<amjjawad> Lubuntu Official Group on Facebook is going GREAT. It was his idea :)
<amjjawad> we just reached 100 members and it's going well
<amjjawad> done :)
<phillw> gilir: is not allowed away from the computer until he does the task assigned 7 days ago :D
<michael_rawson> gilir: how is LSC bug doing?
<gilir> michael_rawson, I need to test it on another precise installation
<gilir> michael_rawson, I can reproduce the 2 different crash on 2 different precise installation, very weird bug ...
<amjjawad> gilir: I'm still waiting :P
<phillw> gilir: which kit do you need it testing on?
<jmarsden|work> gilir: post a debdiff to the LP bug, or even a package in a test PPA, and others can do the testing, rather than you, you are a busy guy :)
<phillw> ask the lubuntu-qa team to assist
<gilir> phillw, don't worry, I'll do it, just need to push it to a PPA and test it again
<phillw> gilir: put it on staging ... the notes have been added already :)
<amjjawad> michael_rawson: any news about LSC? I still can't lunch it :(
<michael_rawson> that's "the bug"
<gilir> jmarsden|work, I'm testing more than that 1 fix :) And we are blocked until friday, so it's not an emergency
<amjjawad> oh sorry that should go to gilir :(
<michael_rawson> it's fixed with trunk, just not the release.
<phillw> gilir: I thought that was the whole idea of staging?
<gilir> amjjawad, fix should arrive after the beta 2 release
<amjjawad> Oh, ok
<amjjawad> so by 30 or 31 or March, it should be fixed?
<gilir> phillw, yes, but I made more changes to LSC that could make it more unstable that it should
<michael_rawson> right, I'm off. Thanks, everyone!
<amjjawad> What about the Task Bar (Window List) Settings? gilir ? for the 64bit version? I still can't resize the width of the task buttons :(
<phillw> touch wood, there are NO respins due tonight, beta 2 should get out Thursday & Feature Freeze be finished.
<gilir> amjjawad, on 12.04 ?
<amjjawad> Yes and 11.10 as well
<phillw> gilir: that is why the notes were written so :)
<gilir> amjjawad, ok I'll look at it later
<amjjawad> gilir: should I double check? I'm sure it's NOT on 11.10 but not very sure about 12.04
<gilir> amjjawad, it's not fixed on 11.10, I'm sure, but should be in 12.04
<amjjawad> gilir: i will double check and let u know later :)
<gilir> ok thanks
<gilir> we are already late :)
<gilir> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Mar 28 21:13:10 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-28-20.03.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-28-20.03.html
<phillw> gilir: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Testing#PPA_Testing could you please check, I *think* I need to include the apt-get install lxinput line again to grab the older one, but it may not install because it has a later one.
<phillw> thanks gilir for chairing, so we ran over time. was worth it :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-03-30
 * stgraber waves
<ajmitch> hi
<highvoltage> *swoosh*
 * ajmitch just needs to look up the runes for meetingology 
<ajmitch> #startmeeting Application Review Board
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Mar 30 18:02:28 2012 UTC.  The chair is ajmitch. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Application Review Board Meeting | Current topic:
<ajmitch> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppReviewBoard/Agenda
<ajmitch> sorry, still waking up :)
<ajmitch> ok, we'll begin on that action review, I'll quickly go throuh & check what's still there from last month
<ajmitch> #topic Action review
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Application Review Board Meeting | Current topic:  Action review
<ajmitch> wendar: you were going to check with doko about when python-support will be removed from the archive, I'm guessing the answer is whenever it's not used anymore?
<wendar> yup
<wendar> it's moved to universe for Precise
<wendar> which is still fine for Extras dependencies
<wendar> but, right now we're manually removing it from packages
<wendar> so, I suggest we keep doing that in Precise
<ajmitch> right, it's easier to use dh_python2 anyway
<wendar> and expect it may be gone from P+1
<wendar> yeah, I much prefer dh_python2
<ajmitch> ok, will mark that action as done
 * ajmitch hasn't seen any movement on bug 894582, might be getting a bit late to get it fixed for precise unless it's done this week
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 894582 in python-distutils-extra "Python templates should use dh_python2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/894582
<ajmitch> anyone else feel inspired to take that on & see if it can be fixed for release?
 * stgraber -> ENOTIME
<ajmitch> stgraber: yeah, that's what I figured :)
<ajmitch> I'll add it to my todo list then, but I don't have a great amount of spare time either right now
<wendar> how about UDS?
<ajmitch> wendar: sorry?
<wendar> as in, talk about it at UDS and see if we can get some TUITs from elsewhere?
<ajmitch> ah right, I was mostly wanting it for precise release, so people who build on precise can make packages that we don't have to change too much
<wendar> If we could get it on mvo's list for next cycle, that'd be great
<wendar> it seems too disruptive for an FFE
<ajmitch> I'll try for this week, otherwise sort it at UDS
<wendar> yup, sounds good
<ajmitch> #action ajmitch to look at bug #894582
<meetingology> ACTION: ajmitch to look at bug #894582
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 894582 in python-distutils-extra "Python templates should use dh_python2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/894582
<ajmitch> ok, now onto the developer-portal bugs
 * highvoltage is listening, even though quiet
 * ajmitch also hasn't seen any activity on there, and hasn't emailed david pitkin back, to nag him 
<ajmitch> highvoltage: it's ok, you can keep quiet & we'll assign the rest of the tasks to you :)
<wendar> heh
<highvoltage> I've already been a bad rmb member regarding my tasks already :(
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> well, I'll see what I can do about nagging about bugs again in this case :)
<ajmitch> #topic When should we open extras for precise?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Application Review Board Meeting | Current topic:  When should we open extras for precise?
<ajmitch> wendar: your topic
<wendar> I'd like to suggest opening up the extras archive for precise now.
<wendar> instead of waiting until after the precise release
<wendar> so we can publish a few apps ahead of time, and have them available in the software center at release
<ajmitch> ok, I'm not opposed to that, as a development platform precise won't really change in the next few weeks
<ajmitch> stgraber, highvoltage - what do you think of it?
<stgraber> yeah, opening now (post-beta2) should be safe
<highvoltage> yeah sooner is probably better than later
<stgraber> it's very unlikely any of the submissions would be pushed to Ubuntu before release (with FFe and all the other paperwork)
 * ajmitch doesn't feel like voting on it, so we'll take that as agreed
<wendar> who wants to turn it on?
<wendar> stgraber has done it in the past
<ajmitch> where is that done?
<stgraber> wendar: the repository is already ready for precise, but someone probably needs to check that MyApps is too
<wendar> stgraber: so if we published to the Extras PPA today, it would be copied over?
<stgraber> wendar: yes
<wendar> stgraber: excellent
<ajmitch> then for existing packages in the queue (of which there are many), should we switch to targetting them to precise?
<wendar> ajmitch: that's my next question on the agenda
<ajmitch> wendar: right, I'll change the topic for it :)
<ajmitch> #agreed Open extras for packages before precise release
<ajmitch> #topic Should we review existing packages for precise?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Application Review Board Meeting | Current topic:  Should we review existing packages for precise?
<wendar> I've got a few more lenses/scopes that are specific to Oneiric, but for all other submissions, I'd like to package it for Precise instead.
<wendar> it just seems silly to be releasing new apps on Oneiric two weeks before the Precise release.
<ajmitch> I expect most people will upgrade from oneiric, so if an app builds & works on precise they should go there
<ajmitch> I don't think most submissions indicate which release they're targetting
<highvoltage> ajmitch: but they should, shouldn't they?
<wendar> yeah, I guess if we find into some that only build and run on Oneiric, it's worth considering publishing them to Oneiric, instead of making the developer fix them up
<wendar> highvoltage: we generally just dictate that they all target the current release
<wendar> highvoltage: so, indicating any other release is just a "bug" in their submission, that we fix before shipping it
<highvoltage> ok
<ajmitch> like a recent submission that had maverick in debian/changelog, though it didn't build on oneiric
<ajmitch> ok, I guess we're agreed that it's generally a good idea to do reviews for precise
<ajmitch> #topic Notify developers with published Oneiric apps of process for resubmitting for Precise.
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Application Review Board Meeting | Current topic:  Notify developers with published Oneiric apps of process for resubmitting for Precise.
<ajmitch> wendar: you added this one earlier today, I'm guessing we don't have a large number of applications which should be resubmitted for precise
<wendar> Yup, a pretty small number.
<wendar> This was mainly a follow up to the last two topics.
<wendar> To say: I'll volunteer to send a personal email to everyone who already has an app in Oneiric.
<ajmitch> yeah, cielak was asking about this process as well
<ajmitch> great
<wendar> Telling them that we've opened up the archive for submissions to Precise.
<wendar> And, if they want to get their app in before release, they can do it now.
<ajmitch> will they need to resubmit through myapps, even if it's not a new upstream release?
<wendar> How about we say they can either submit to MyApps, or just contact us on the mailing list?
<ajmitch> or in cases like harmonyseq, should we just bump the version number in the changelog for precise?
 * ajmitch isn't sure if just copying packages in the PPA will work)
<wendar> I don't think we even need to bump the version number in the changelog, as long as we rebuild with precise as the target in the changelog
<wendar> I mean, bump the version number if we have to make any changes other than the release target
<wendar> but, otherwise, it's just a rebuild
<ajmitch> the debian revision needs changed at least, from ...11.10.1 to 12.04.1
<stgraber> wendar: well, then we need to bump the version
<stgraber> wendar: as you can't have two binary packages in the repository with the same version but different content
<wendar> stgraber: yeah, true enough
<stgraber> wendar: so we either copy to the new series (and use exactly the same binary package) or we rebuild and then need to bump the version at the same time
<wendar> simple version bump as a "rebuild for precise"
<wendar> I'd rather rebuild than copy the binary package
 * stgraber too
<ajmitch> ok
<stgraber> so bump to .12.04 and upload for these that don't need any extra change (when told by the developer they want it in precise)
<wendar> ajmitch: that's true, the debian revision has to change, since we have the Ubuntu release version number in the package version string
<ajmitch> #action allison to send a personal email to everyone who already has an app in Oneiric.
<meetingology> ACTION: allison to send a personal email to everyone who already has an app in Oneiric.
<ajmitch> anything else on that one, or do we move onto the big topic about the queue state? :)
<wendar> onward :)
<ajmitch> #topic State Of The Queue
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Application Review Board Meeting | Current topic:  State Of The Queue
<ajmitch> so though I had good intentions a week or so ago, I haven't had time to really look at & comment on applications this week, have just casually looked at some recent submissions
<wendar> I've been doing quick replies on the ones that need quick fixes
<ajmitch> the queue length is long, I'm been meaning to work from the top down
<wendar> so, a lot of what's left is either valid source packages (with no debian packaging)
 * ajmitch has some spare time this weekend
<wendar> or debian packages that need validating for ARB requirements
<wendar> some exceptions to that are the Community Lens
<ajmitch> packages like zeroballistics needs a careful rejection sent, as it looks to be a nice game, gpl source, but it depends on a non-free library
<wendar> ah, yeah, that would be out
<ajmitch> wendar: what's the state of the music lenses in the queue there?
<wendar> I've got a patch back from the developer to fix the final problems
<wendar> so, I just need to integrate that, test, and put them up for vote
<ajmitch> ok
<wendar> I could do that today or tomorrow
<wendar> the community lens is for precise, so no hurry on that one
 * ajmitch would like to be able to get rid of these 'pending qa' items from the list
<wendar> yeah, that's one of the active bugs, isn't it?
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> the bug is fix committed (iirc)
<wendar> so, just waiting for release?
<wendar> (where release is their server rollout schedule, rather than related to Ubuntu releases)
<ajmitch> I assume so, stgraber may know a few more details about how these bits interact
<wendar> https://bugs.launchpad.net/developer-portal/+bug/914667
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 914667 in Developer registration portal "Packages in the ARB process should go directly to Published without going to "Ready to Publish"" [High,Fix committed]
<ajmitch> fix committed 6 weeks ago, maybe it has been rolled out & we can mark them as published :)
<wendar> maybe check with achuni?
<wendar> or, ask in the ticket?
<ajmitch> I'll do that
<wendar> of all the bugs, this one is probably the biggest irritant at the moment
<wendar> cool, thanks
 * ajmitch would probably put that on par with the needs info submissions not showing
<ajmitch> any other comments on the state of the queue, apart from 'just do it'?
<wendar> a whole bunch of them are new submissions with no packaging
<wendar> but, we agreed a few months ago to only accept new submissions from PPAs
<ajmitch> I'll check for a bug on developer-portal about requiring PPAs at submit time
<wendar> it does now
<wendar> http://developer.ubuntu.com/publish/my-apps-packages/
<wendar> or, at least the instructions are right now
<wendar> I totally think we should do the packaging for the old apps that were submitted before we said we required PPAs
<ajmitch> right, but at the point you submit, does it require a PPA be given?
<wendar> nope, not yet
<wendar> so, I wouldn't reject the apps with no PPA
<ajmitch> ok, I'll check for that one
<wendar> but, I'm thinking it would be a better use of my time to write a step-by-step set of instructions on how to package new apps
<wendar> than to manually do the packaging for the new submissions
<ajmitch> it can be a bit time-consuming :)
<wendar> Aye, and it'll only get more time-consuming as we go on
<wendar> it doesn't scale
<wendar> but, if we could give them a really polite and helpful way to do the packaging themselves, that'd make a difference
<wendar> and would scale better
<ajmitch> the packaging guide still confuses quite a few people
<wendar> also, I think a guide on how to make a tarball would be helpful
<ajmitch> that would help, people are still submitting .jar files
<wendar> the packaging guide is also for the main Ubuntu archives, and not for the ARB requirements
<wendar> so, even when we do get proper debian source packages, we still have to manually edit them
<ajmitch> yep
<wendar> I figure if I condense the instructions I've already sent out individually to a bunch of devs into a few simple wiki pages, it could help us a lot
<ajmitch> it'd help us as well
<ajmitch> thanks for offering to do that
<wendar> cool, I'll do that this weekend
<wendar> and, if you're doing packaging work this weekend, focus on the older submissions, from before the PPA requirement
<ajmitch> I realised I skipped the 'review updated text', but iirc that was an agenda meeting from last time which we resolved?
<wendar> it was new... just a sec let me check what it was...
<wendar> It might have been https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppReviewBoard/Review
<wendar> specifying the right URL for screenshot images
<ajmitch> the agenda item was about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppReviewBoard/Review/Guidelines, depending on backported libraries which are new
<wendar> Oh, no, it was backported libraries
<wendar> yeah
<wendar> after discussion on IRC, I added the text:
<wendar> (We're open to considering dependencies on backported libraries, on a case-by-case basis, but only if the backport is a new library and not an updated version of an existing library.)
<wendar> and I just wanted a quick double-check that other folks were okay with that
<ajmitch> imho the text that's been added there is fine
<ajmitch> stgraber, highvoltage: ^ if you have a sec :)
<stgraber> sounds good
<ajmitch> ok
<stgraber> not sure we can assume everyone has -backports in their /etc/apt/sources.list, but since oneiric we do it by default so I guess it'll be fine
<highvoltage> no strong feelings about it here :)
<ajmitch> ok then
<ajmitch> are we up to the AOB point?
<wendar> NOB from here
<ajmitch> the main thing I have is the meeting time - it's that time of year with daylight saving time messes with us
<ajmitch> from next month the meeting time will end up at 6AM on a saturday morning for me, which is a little painful :)
<wendar> that's pretty awful
<ajmitch> it was hard enough getting up for a 7AM meeting this morning, I should have gone to sleep before 2 :)
<highvoltage> ouch
<ajmitch> do we want to sort out a new time here, or on the list so our other team members can comment?
<wendar> probably finalize it on the list, but a first guess here could speed things up
<wendar> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=App+Review+Board+Meeting+&iso=20120330T18
<wendar> ^ the link to the current meeting time
<ajmitch> an hour or two later works for me
<ajmitch> so 1900UTC or 2000
<wendar> stgraber, where are you?
<highvoltage> stgraber is on east coast, est time
<ajmitch> highvoltage: you're in the same place, right?
<highvoltage> yep
<wendar> so a little later would probably be fine for both of you
<stgraber> I'm happy with both 1900 or 2000 UTC
<highvoltage> yep
<ajmitch> I think if coolbhavi is able to make it, he's indicated that a slightly later time is better
<stgraber> I'll be in Europe for our next meeting but will probably skip it anyway, so that's fine :)
<wendar> Bhavani doesn't usually make it to the meetings, so I think it's okay not to plan them around Calcutta time
<ajmitch> stgraber: skip it? how could yo? :)
<stgraber> :)
<ajmitch> ok, I'll mail the list about the new suggested time & ask for feedback
<wendar> hmmmm... ajmitch: how about flipping the meeting around to Friday afternoon your time?
<wendar> Friday morning US time?
<ajmitch> wendar: it'd need to be after work for me
<wendar> sorry, backwards
<ajmitch> so from 0500UTC onwards
<wendar> ugh, timezones
<ajmitch> yeah
<wendar> just a sec I'll do meeting planner
<wendar> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meeting.html
<ajmitch> I didn't think it'd work well for east coast people then
<ajmitch> UTC+12 is at least easy to convert :)
<wendar> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?iso=20120427&p1=137&p2=179&p3=22
<wendar> ajmitch: it's actually easy enough, as long as you're not also trying to accommodate Europe
<ajmitch> well, we have fagan in europe, but I haven't even seen him on irc for a couple of months
<wendar> yeah, the meetings aren't critical, so might as well optimize the time for the people who attend
<wendar> ajmitch: is Saturday easier than Friday for you?
<ajmitch> yes
<wendar> ajmitch: just not so early?
<ajmitch> just not 6AM
<wendar> ajmitch: like Saturday at 10/11am?
<ajmitch> fine by me
<wendar> that's pushing into Friday night for the US Eastern folks
<wendar> maybe a bit of a drag for personal life
<highvoltage> ok by me if I know about it in advance
<wendar> 9am Auckland is 5pm Eastern
<wendar> 10am Auckland is 6pm Eastern
<wendar> that's late enough for a Saturday sleep in Auckland, but early enough to still go out in US Eastern
<stgraber> hmm, 6pm on a Friday... not sure I'll be around. 5pm is fine though
 * ajmitch doesn't mind 7 or 8 AM 
<ajmitch> so that's why I was suggesting just 1900/2000 if it still suited others
<wendar> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingdetails.html?year=2012&month=4&day=27&hour=21&min=0&sec=0&p1=137&p2=179&p3=22
<ajmitch> 2pm ok for you?
<wendar> yeah, 2pm is fine for me
<wendar> (pacific time)
<ajmitch> ok
<wendar> 5pm eastern
<wendar> 9am auckland
<ajmitch> seems to work
<ajmitch> last thing is to volunteer a chair for next month
<ajmitch> it'll be about a day after the precise release, fwiw
<wendar> so not stgraber
<wendar> highvoltage? or I'm happy to do one
<ajmitch> up to the 3 of us I think
<stgraber> yeah, I'll be in Europe and I took the post-release Friday off, so definitely not arund :)
<wendar> ajmitch: we shouldn't make you do two in a row
<ajmitch> stgraber: have a drink for us then ;)
<wendar> put me in
<ajmitch> ok, thank you
<ajmitch> with that, I think we're done
<ajmitch> thanks everyone :)
<stgraber> thanks!
<ajmitch> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Mar 30 19:24:25 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-30-18.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-30-18.02.html
<wendar> thanks ajmitch!
<highvoltage> wendar: sorry I got distracted, yep I'm up for it
<highvoltage> (oops you already volunteered, nm then :) )
<highvoltage> thanks ajmitch
<wendar> highvoltage: no worries, feel free to substitute your name on the Agenda page
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-03-25
<stgraber> @pilot in
<meetingology> stgraber: Error: "pilot" is not a valid command.
<stgraber> oops, wrong channel :)
<jdstrand> hi!
<sarnold> o/
<chrisccoulson> \o
<jjohansen> \o
<tyhicks> hello
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Mar 25 16:32:37 2013 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<mdeslaur> \o
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<jdstrand> in order to better accomodate all the members of the security team, we've changed our meeting time to 16:30 UTC
<jdstrand> Thanks to Scott Kitterman (ScottK) who provided a debdiff for hardy for clamav (LP: #1157385). Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job!
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1157385 in clamav (Ubuntu Hardy) "0.97.7 security update" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1157385
<ScottK> Thanks.
<jdstrand> :)
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, tyhicks, jjohansen, sarnold, chrisccoulson: please book travel for the sprint if you haven't already
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Actions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Actions
<jdstrand> I had the action for changing the meeting time. that is obviously done :)
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I have a short week this week, with friday off
<jdstrand> I'm on community this week
<jdstrand> I've got various performance reviews stuff I'll be working on
<jdstrand> as well as monthly planning for March (follow-ups) and April
<jdstrand> I think the monthly planning went pretty well this month (the planning itself, not the work items (which are doing quite well :), which we can discuss in a bit)
<jdstrand> I have 2 audits I need to do surrounding the SDK and gwibber
<jdstrand> and I'd like to carve out some time for looking at scopes privacy
<jdstrand> in terms of March work items status:
<jdstrand> I worked on getting the Ubuntu SDK/Unity dbus abstractions together last week, and have created patches against our apparmor in the dbus ppa that I'll either upload or coordinate with tyhicks
<jdstrand> so my part should be done today
<jdstrand> I am also updating the apparmor.d man page for dbus
<jdstrand> that should be done shortly
<tyhicks> nice! :)
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're next
<mdeslaur> I've just pushed out the openssl regression fix
<mdeslaur> and gnome-online-accounts
<mdeslaur> I'm currently finishing ruby testing, they should go out this afternoon
<mdeslaur> I'm in the happy place this week
<mdeslaur> and will pick up another update
<mdeslaur> I hope to have time to try out the sdk too
<mdeslaur> that's about it from me
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm focused on apparmor display manager confinement again this week.
<sbeattie> I'm still working on some issues with the logging prototype that I've been working on
<sbeattie> I'm also digging into the mir codebase this week
<mdeslaur> cool
<sbeattie> and that's pretty much it for me.
<sbeattie> tyhicks: you're up
<tyhicks> I'm primarily working on apparmor dbus mediation this week
<jdstrand> sbeattie: in terms of work items, that leaves the API. will those be postponed to april?
<tyhicks> I'm still bug squashing from late last week
 * tyhicks pauses
<sbeattie> jdstrand: yeah, likely.
<jdstrand> ok
<jdstrand> tyhicks: sorry
<tyhicks> np
<jdstrand> go ahead
<tyhicks> I've fixed the dbus-daemon segfault that we were seeing and I'm trying to understand some oddness around the dbus acquire permission checks
<tyhicks> I found one bug in the query code and fixed it
<tyhicks> there's still another bug either in the parser or the query code... looking into that more right now
<tyhicks> then I'll upload those 3 fixes today
<tyhicks> then I'll switch to my last remaining march work item:
<tyhicks> [tyhicks] dbus daemon, use aa_getpeercon - initial (high) (1): INPROGRESS
<tyhicks> I've already been thinking how I want to do that and don't think it'll take much work to complete
<jdstrand> o/ (I have a question when you are done with status)
<tyhicks> (the sizing feels accurate to me, so I don't forsee that work item to be postponed)
<tyhicks> Outside of that stuff, I need to do some work on eCryptfs performance improvements. That'll probably fall in after-hours time, though.
<tyhicks> That's it for me
<tyhicks> jdstrand: what's your question?
<jdstrand> I think you covered your work items status, but unrelated to that, did you also see the issues I was having with the output of apparmor_parser -p with dbus rules?
<tyhicks> jdstrand: Yeah, I took a quick look at that and I still don't have a good answer
<jdstrand> ok
 * jdstrand is done
<tyhicks> jdstrand: I'm not really familiar with the parser code, so it'll take a bit of time for me to get to the bottom of that
<tyhicks> jdstrand: Can I look at that after the getpeercon work item or is it blocking your work item from completion?
<jdstrand> it may be something jjohansen can point you at (or maybe it is an easy fix). it isn't super important atm, but something we don't want to release with
 * tyhicks nods
<jdstrand> it isn't blocking me at all
<jdstrand> it is just a bug that I wanted on someone's todo list
<tyhicks> jdstrand: I've added an entry in my todo tracker
<jdstrand> thanks
<tyhicks> np, thanks for pointing it out :)
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> jdstrand: is there a bug open on that?
<jjohansen> we don't need one, just want make sure if there is we update it
<jdstrand> jjohansen: no, which was a question I had. how do we want to handle bugs against the ppa? perhaps we could discuss in #apparmor after the meeting (but here is fine if it is an easy answer)
 * tyhicks doesn't have an easy answer atm
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: just write in the bug description that it's the ppa version?
<jdstrand> let's discuss in #apparmor then
<jjohansen> jdstrand: generally I don't care. If you poke one of us, I think that is enough atm
<jjohansen> I have a short week this week (off thurs, and friday)
<jjohansen> I will be working on next months monthly planning and finishing up my apparmor wi (labeling, and stacking), and coordinating with tyhicks on integrating the dbus changes into the apparmor-dev ppa
<jdstrand> jjohansen: based on that, it sounds like the march work items are on track. is that accurate?
<jdstrand> wait, there was one you said might slip
<mdeslaur> oh? which one?
<jjohansen> jdstrand: hrmm, I am behind
<jjohansen> stacking, extend policy language - parser (essential) (4): will be postponed for sure
<jdstrand> yes, that was the one
<jdstrand> jjohansen: no worries, I know you've been very busy with kernel security updates
<jdstrand> I've already communicated that has slowed us down
<jjohansen> I think we should be able to get the other ones out, but maybe I am being optimistic
<jdstrand> well, it's ok if things overlap between months
<jdstrand> we don't have to be rigid, just aware
<jjohansen> right
<jjohansen> I think that is it from me, sarnold your up
<sarnold> I'm working on some workitems this week, juju charm authoring and testing
<sarnold> turns out that local lxc deployments aren't working well in raring; hooray for uvt making vm testing so easy (thanks marc :)
<sarnold> (I think the problem is the usual python-has-broken-everything-again)
<sarnold> once I've made some progress there, I'll be doing the LXC MIR audit, unless something higher-priority pops up
<sarnold> oh yes, I'm also on triage this week.
<robru> is this the settings meeting?
<sarnold> robru: security team
<sarnold> chrisccoulson: your turn :)
<jdstrand> robru: we're almost done
<robru> no worries
<chrisccoulson> yoyo
<seb128> we are moving to  #ubuntu-touch for the settings meeting
<robru> seb128, thanks
 * jdstrand didn't see a planned meeting in the calendar at this time, fwiw
<chrisccoulson> so, last week I started looking at automated testing for chromium. i've got some tests running, and i plan to start writing the glue to hook this in to jenkins this week
<chrisccoulson> i've also got a build of the latest version of chromium working on armhf
<jdstrand> \o/
<mdeslaur> \o/
<mdeslaur> wait...new version breaking arm again in...5....
<mdeslaur> 4....
<mdeslaur> 3...
<chrisccoulson> i went through the checklist of things i need to do as a new starter last week too. i've deferred a few things until i get my new laptop though (such as setting up test environments)
<chrisccoulson> that's arriving in 2 days :)
<sarnold> \o/
<chrisccoulson> there's also a firefox release next week (which means preparing builds at the end of this week)
<chrisccoulson> and i have a short week too
<mdeslaur> chrisccoulson: oh, what version of ff?
<chrisccoulson> mdeslaur, 20
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: I'll show you the UCT/USN ropes then
<mdeslaur> they grow up so fast
<chrisccoulson> jdstrand, excellent, thanks
<chrisccoulson> i think that's me done
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/strongswan.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/proftpd-dfsg.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libjboss-cache1-java.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libphp-adodb.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/jenkins-winstone.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<mdeslaur> is everyone off on monday?
<jdstrand> no
<jdstrand> US is not
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: are you?
<chrisccoulson> jdstrand, yeah, i think we get friday and monday
<chrisccoulson> i should check though :)
<mdeslaur> ok, I'm off on monday, FYI
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: yes :)
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, tyhicks, jjohansen, sarnold, chrisccoulson: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Mar 25 17:07:51 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-03-25-16.32.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-03-25-16.32.html
<tyhicks> thanks
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
<sarnold> thanks jdstrand
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand
<seb128> setting on https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/2c3a666c05f85fd29c4dcf2131e5f4b5a80d24d3?authuser=0&hl=fr
<tvoss> seb128, got a spare seat for me?
<seb128> tvoss, yes, we can go up to 15 and are at 10
<HerbertWest> meeting today where is it?
 * Elbrus is present
 * stgraber waves
<stgraber> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> bdrung, ScottK, Laney, micahg, barry, tumbleweed, stgraber: DMB ping
<ScottK> \o
<stgraber> #startmeeting DMB meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Mar 25 19:01:04 2013 UTC.  The chair is stgraber. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB meeting Meeting | Current topic:
<stgraber> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Review of previous action items
<stgraber> Micah to send summary of PPU decoupling discuss to the DMB list
<stgraber> micahg: ^
<tumbleweed> hi
<stgraber> waiting a minute for micahg as he has both previous actions
<bdrung> o/
<micahg> that was done
<stgraber> Micah to urgently send feedback on Bjorn's PPU application
<stgraber> micahg: any progress on that one?
<micahg> no, not yet, but I should have time soon
<stgraber> ok
<stgraber> #topic PerPackageUploader Applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB meeting Meeting | Current topic:  PerPackageUploader Applications
<stgraber> #subtopic Paul Gevers
<Elbrus> that's me
<stgraber> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Elbrus/PerPackageUploaderApplication
<stgraber> Elbrus: Hi, can you introduce yourself and your application please?
<Elbrus> well, I started working on Ubuntu several years ago
<Elbrus> first looking at bugs
<Elbrus> trying to get them in shape for proper solving
<Elbrus> as I don't require much software myself that is not in Ubuntu yet, I started to look at request from others
<Elbrus> I found winff
<Elbrus> (well first miktex, but that didn't work)
<ScottK> Why did you apply for PPU and not MOTU?
<Elbrus> one step at a time
<ScottK> PPU isn't necessary as a step.
<Elbrus> as I am now Debian developer, I switched my own system to Debian...
<Elbrus> I support Ubuntu (especially on the packages that I monitor)
<Elbrus> I don't want to rush things
<Elbrus> but no specific reason otherwise
<Elbrus> actually, I haven't much looked into it, I was a DM for a long time and that was fine with me
<Elbrus> at Debian it takes longer to earn those upload rights...
<Elbrus> I guess that is it.
<tumbleweed> DDs don't need to show much to join MOTU. Basically, if you understand the Ubuntu processes and release cycle, and do some work in Ubuntu, you can probably have a successful MOTU application
 * Elbrus didn't know that... Daniel Holbach convinced me to get those PPU rights
<Elbrus> we didn't discuss Motu
<tumbleweed> it looks like your work in Ubuntu has been restricted to a handful of packages, so PPU sounds like it'd be useful to you
<Elbrus> exactly
<tumbleweed> but if you start working more widely, please come back to us
<Elbrus> I try to spend my time understanding what I do
 * ScottK would be happy to +1 either PPU or MOTU, fwiw.
<Elbrus> thanks
<tumbleweed> so, talking of Ubuntu processes
<Elbrus> yes
<tumbleweed> are you subscribed to ubuntu-devel-annonce?
<Elbrus> yes
<tumbleweed> err, pretend I spelled that correctly
<Elbrus> pretend I read what you ment
<tumbleweed> oh, and, btw, thanks for your work on motif with graham inggs. he's a local friend, and I see good progress
<Elbrus> yes, he is good to mentor (because that is what I am actually doing)
<Elbrus> he knows the content, I know Debian procedures... good combo
<micahg> Elbrus: have you ever had to work with the release team to get something in?
<Elbrus> in Debian you mean?
<micahg> no, Ubuntu
<Elbrus> I think I filed a exception some releases ago
<Elbrus> s/a/an
<tumbleweed> if you wanted to do an upload tomorrow, would you need to coordinate with the release team?
<Elbrus> at the current state of the release, I think yes, but to be honest, I would look it up first
<Elbrus> after feature freeze
<tumbleweed> so, the we trust Ubuntu Developers to know what they are doing
<tumbleweed> if you decide an upload fixes bugs, and doesn't add new features, you can just do it
<Elbrus> actually, graham was hinting yesterday of getting things in... I responded that I would expect that to go..
<tumbleweed> none of the packages you are applying for are seeded, so we don't need to get into the more complex freeze issues
<Elbrus> right... until the moment of release... (scary to me)
<micahg> it never hurts to ask though if you're unsure
<Elbrus> sure, all leaf packages
<tumbleweed> re motif, massive build system changes also need feature freeze exceptions (they are risky)
 * tumbleweed must mail him...
<Elbrus> micahg: that is exactly my attitude
<tumbleweed> closer to the end of the freeze, uploads will all be reviewed by the release team, but we aren't there yet...
<Elbrus> better safe than sorry
 * tumbleweed stops asking questions
<Elbrus> @ finalfreeze I guess?
<meetingology> Elbrus: Error: "finalfreeze" is not a valid command.
<Elbrus> oops
<bdrung> :)
<micahg> Elbrus: FTR, Kubuntu not being supported was a Canonical decision, not an Ubuntu project decision, so I guess the project is perfect then? :D
<ScottK> Elbrus: If you were on the release team and had to deal with all the bugs filed by people who file for an exception for every upload, you might not say better safe than sorry ...
<Elbrus> I wrote that some time ago indeed
<Elbrus> and I understand that
<ScottK> It actually doesn't change much since Kubuntu people did most of the security updates for Kubuntu packages anyway.
<Elbrus> ScottK: sure
<Elbrus> I meant: reading up on the moment
<Elbrus> and CHECK that what I have in mind is all right
<Elbrus> and only when unsure: ask
<Elbrus> I did that with one of my Debian uploads recently, as I considered it quite disruptive.
<bdrung> you can ask on IRC if you are unsure whether it is needed or not (before filing a freeze exception)
<Elbrus> only the important part was excepted
<Elbrus> exactly
<Elbrus> I am on #ubuntu-devel and #ubuntu-motu (asking and answering once in a while)
<stgraber> #vote PPU for Paul Gevers (winff, daisy-player, ebook-speaker and cacti)
<meetingology> Please vote on: PPU for Paul Gevers (winff, daisy-player, ebook-speaker and cacti)
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<ScottK> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from ScottK
<micahg> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg
<bdrung> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdrung
<stgraber> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
<tumbleweed> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from tumbleweed
<stgraber> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: PPU for Paul Gevers (winff, daisy-player, ebook-speaker and cacti)
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
 * Elbrus thanks you
<bdrung> Elbrus: most developers are in these channels. You can go into #ubuntu-release if you want to talk to the release team directly.
<micahg> Elbrus: congratulations
<bdrung> congrats Elbrus
<stgraber> congrats!
<stgraber> #topic MOTU Applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB meeting Meeting | Current topic:  MOTU Applications
<stgraber> #subtopic Vibhav Pant
<stgraber> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VibhavPant/MOTUApplication
<stgraber> vibhav: ping
<stgraber> waiting 2 more minutes
<stgraber> #topic Select a chair for the next meeting (following alphabetical order of first names)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Select a chair for the next meeting (following alphabetical order of first names)
<stgraber> next chair will be barry
<stgraber> #topic Any other business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Any other business
<tumbleweed> meeting rescheduling?
<bdrung> tumbleweed: to which timeslots?
<tumbleweed> micahg: will you set up a doodle poll?
<micahg> yes
<micahg> (probably not until Wed night though)
 * vibhav waves
 * vibhav is sorry for the delay, my alarm clock was set for the wrong time
<stgraber> hi vibhav, we're quickly checking whether the members can stay a bit longer for your application or whether we should reschedule
<stgraber> #topic MOTU Applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB meeting Meeting | Current topic:  MOTU Applications
<stgraber> #subtopic Vibhav Pant
<stgraber> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VibhavPant/MOTUApplication
<stgraber> vibhav: hi, can you introduce yourself and your application please?
<vibhav> sure
<vibhav> I am Vibhav Pant, a current high school student in India.
<vibhav> I have been involved with Ubuntu since the ~precise cycle
<vibhav> I primarily work on merges and sync from debian, autopkgtests, ftbfs and general upstream changes
<vibhav> I was recently told by one of my main sponsors that I should apply for MOTU, and that is what I did
<micahg> hi vibhav, what happened with https://code.launchpad.net/~vibhavp/ubuntu/raring/gramophone2/merge-from-debian/+merge/141277 ?
<vibhav> micahg: I corrected the fix, but never got the time to upload.
<vibhav> Ive got some recent problems with my internet connection
<vibhav> which should be fixed by next week
<vibhav> that includes 3 more branches (including thoggen) too
<vibhav> fyi, my upload bandwith is stuck around ~0.5 kbps
<tumbleweed> that's painful
<ScottK> Those of us who started with 110 bps modems, aren't impressed.
<tumbleweed> heh
<tumbleweed> vibhav: in your application, you talk about needs-packaging bugs being neglected
<vibhav> tumbleweed: Not surprising if you live in India
<tumbleweed> many of us don't want to bring in too many new packages, because if nobody maintains them, they'll cause more pain than they are worth
<tumbleweed> do you have any ideas on how we can bring new packages into Ubuntu without them rotting away?
<vibhav> tumbleweed: I have this small sketch on this idea
<vibhav> I was involving popcon and the rate of FTBFS which would calculate a "rotting score"
<vibhav> s/I/It/
<micahg> why  not just push to Debian if someone cares about it?
<tumbleweed> that's what we generally try to encourage
<vibhav> micahg: Yes, I was wondering if I could talk to the debian folks aabout this idea
<micahg> and if no one cares about it, it will rot
<vibhav> The sketch is still not refined though
<vibhav> micahg, tumbleweed : THe truth still remains, the success of a platform is determined by its application developers
<vibhav> The*
<micahg> vibhav: that's extras :)
<tumbleweed> I suspect that may end up being solved by alternative repositories
<tumbleweed> yeah, extras
<ScottK> vibhav: I've seen some of the sponsor comments that some of your merges carry forward changes that don't need to be retained.  What will keep that from happening in the future if you're MOTU and no longer have things reviewed?
<vibhav> ScottK: I have extensively studied some of my mistakes, due to which my rate of upload has (relatively) reduced.
<ScottK> Can you give me any examples of cases where you realized you didn't know enough to decide what to do on your own and asked for help?
<vibhav> I have always tried to reflect on the changes I will be carrying on
<vibhav> ScottK: I dont remember many, but I remember making a sync request for a package I was going to merge, where the change was adding support for a platform which had been then obsoleted by Canonical
<ScottK> I do have concern that given your history, you don't always know when to stop and ask questions.
<ScottK> Being MOTU doesn't mean having to know everything, but knowing when to stop and ask precisely because you don't know everything is critical.
<vibhav> ScottK: I think you are right here, though I have always tried to *not* rush with my uploads
<vibhav> and I have improved a bit in my struggle
<tumbleweed> how much testing do you do before requesting sponsorship?
<vibhav> tumbleweed: I have an old Dell laptop lying around which I use as a build server
<tumbleweed> so, you test build
<tumbleweed> I assume you know how to test autopkgtests?
<vibhav> (via pbuilder)
<vibhav> tumbleweed: I now test all of my autopktest uploads
<vibhav> sure
<vibhav> tumbleweed: though pitti sometimes does that for me (internet)
<tumbleweed> do you ever install the debs you built, and see that they install correctly and/or the programs run?
<vibhav> tumbleweed: I did it for a recent FTBFS fix and always attempt it for merges
<tumbleweed> (I don't do this for every upload, but when I think there's some risk of it not working, I do)
<vibhav> I test syncs only by compiling
<vibhav> tumbleweed: of course, if the changes don't conflict, I sometimes hold of installing. I just build
<tumbleweed> assuming we gave you upload rights tonight, would you sync a library package tomorrow?
<vibhav> off, even
<vibhav> tumbleweed: FF is taken effect, I would certainly proceed with extreme caution
<tumbleweed> right, so what kind of things would make you say no, this is a bad idea?
<vibhav> s/is/has/
<vibhav> WE are going to hit Final Beta Freeze soon now
<vibhav> So, I wil upload it only if it has some _critical_ bugs
<tumbleweed> and what if it has new features, and some critical bug fixes?
<vibhav> tumbleweed: I think I wil request the release team to intervene
<vibhav> If they grant a FFE, sure
<micahg> vibhav: are all packages frozen at beta freeze?
<vibhav> micahg: no, the seeded packages
<vibhav> (that include official variants)
<vibhav> these packages do require the release team to approve
<stgraber> ok, we're out of time. Time to vote
<stgraber> #vote Vibhav Pant for MOTU
<meetingology> Please vote on: Vibhav Pant for MOTU
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<stgraber> +0 [My feeling based on the feedback I received and the present discussion is that you clearly have experience and technical skills, but I'm not confident that you know your limits and will ask when unsure.]
<meetingology> +0 [My feeling based on the feedback I received and the present discussion is that you clearly have experience and technical skills, but I'm not confident that you know your limits and will ask when unsure.] received from stgraber
<bdrung> +1 [ please ask questions if needed ]
<meetingology> +1 [ please ask questions if needed ] received from bdrung
<ScottK> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from ScottK
<tumbleweed> +0 [ The work looks good, but I'm concerned about the number of endorsers saying "slow down". for broad upload rights, I'd like some strong endorsements ]
<meetingology> +0 [ The work looks good, but I'm concerned about the number of endorsers saying "slow down". for broad upload rights, I'd like some strong endorsements ] received from tumbleweed
<ScottK> I think you're doing mostly good work, but I'd like to see more consistency, more questions, and a bit better understanding of feezes.
<stgraber> micahg: ?
<micahg> +0 [variety looks good, but number of iterations per fix still seem high]
<meetingology> +0 [variety looks good, but number of iterations per fix still seem high] received from micahg
<vibhav> ScottK: My exams had recently ended. So I was inactive for some time
<stgraber> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Vibhav Pant for MOTU
<meetingology> Votes for:1 Votes against:1 Abstentions:3
<meetingology> Deadlock, casting vote may be used
<tumbleweed> hrm, I only spoke about endorsements, but that really means I want to see good evidence of understanding ones own limits, and asking for help when pushing the boundaries
<ScottK> vibhav: I'm sure you'll get this in time.  Keep going.
<vibhav> sure!
<stgraber> vibhav: sorry, you weren't successful this time around though everyone acknowledged that you are doing some good work, and I'm sure we'll see you apply again soon.
<vibhav> alrighty
<stgraber> vibhav: I also want to re-iterate what some others said, please slow down, take more time looking at the changes you make and when unsure, please ask someone before sending it for upload.
<vibhav> stgraber: I will surely try
<tumbleweed> oh, and good luck with those exams
<stgraber> alright, well, see you all in ~2 weeks (depending on whether we change day or not, will be decided by e-mail)
<stgraber> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Mar 25 20:22:39 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-03-25-19.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-03-25-19.01.html
<vibhav> tumbleweed: thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-03-26
<m_3> ok, so I don't see clint around
<arosales> Hello o/
<m_3> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Mar 26 16:00:50 2013 UTC.  The chair is m_3. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<arosales> no spamaps
<m_3> hi all, ok... so following the agenda...
<m_3> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<m_3> jamespage to milesone documentation updates [added on 2013-03-19]
<jamespage> fw
<jamespage> carry forward rather
<jamespage> its probably to late and I've not had time todo that
<jamespage> o/
<m_3> jamespage: thanks... I was wondering what sort of abbrev I was missing there :)
<m_3> Daviey send call for Beta testing [added on 2013-03-19]
<m_3> #action jamespage to milesone documentation updates [added on 2013-03-19]
<meetingology> ACTION: jamespage to milesone documentation updates [added on 2013-03-19]
<m_3> did anything go out on beta testing?
<arosales> utlemming: any betas for cloud images?
<utlemming> arosales: yes b2 went out for raring
<m_3> cool...
<m_3> #topic Raring Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Raring Development
<m_3> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RaringRingtail/ReleaseSchedule
<m_3> #subtopic Release Bugs
<m_3> seems like a pretty short list of high/critical bugs
<m_3> bug #1157918
<ubottu> bug 1157918 in horizon (Ubuntu Raring) "Network selection tab when starting instance renders incorrectly" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1157918
<jamespage> m_3, yeah - thats a problem with the ubuntu theme
<jamespage> huw is taking a look - I'm setting up an environment where he can check stuff out
<m_3> k, it's unassigned
<jamespage> not for long
<m_3> cool
<m_3> http://launchpad.net/bugs/1064527
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1064527 in maas (Ubuntu Raring) "detect_ipmi needs improvement. detects non-existant device in nested kvm" [High,Triaged]
<jamespage> m_3: roaksoax is not here - maybe smoser can enlighten us
<smoser> i think that probably should be moved off of a list like this.
<m_3> or that's orphaned for now :)
<smoser> its not that significant an issue to be tracked really.
<Daviey> Agreed. I will follow up with roaksox
<m_3> nested kvm ipmi?  hmmmm
<m_3> :)
<jamespage> lol
<jamespage> virtual-maas man!
<m_3> http://launchpad.net/bugs/1073463
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1073463 in maas (Ubuntu Raring) "User-configurable files are not installed in /etc" [High,Triaged]
<arosales> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-r-tracking-bug-tasks.html#server
<m_3> we can wait for roaksox on that one too
<m_3> there's one more high... http://launchpad.net/bugs/1066845
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1066845 in nova (Ubuntu Raring) "nova-novncproxy is not running; Suggest: novnc should be Depends" [High,In progress]
<Daviey> thought that was fixed?
<jamespage> yeah - if nova drops another RC that can be fixed up
<jamespage> else we will just push the change - its in the CI lab already
<jamespage> Daviey, it would appear not
<Daviey> a:(
<m_3> ok, well that's all that shows up on
<m_3> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-r-tracking-bug-tasks.html#server
<m_3> #subtopic Blueprints
<m_3> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-raring/group/topic-raring-servercloud-overview.html
<m_3> shall we go through red/high's or do peope just want to bring up blockers?
<m_3> I'll take silence to mean that peeps wanna see links :)
<arosales> m_3: perhaps hit some of the reds?
<m_3> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-r-openstack-grizzly
<arosales> at least critical/high
<arosales> :-)
<jamespage> zul, that needs a review and alot postponing
<zul> ill take a look
<m_3> that's the only essential red
<m_3> high reds:
<m_3> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-r-image-access
<jamespage> fwiw openstack is looking pretty good for raring - all projects are rc'ed
<m_3> cool
<m_3> smoser: image access?
<m_3> actually the other two are in that area too it looks like
<m_3> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-r-cloudarchive
<m_3> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-r-openstack-ubuntu-images
<m_3> that's all high red
<m_3> ok, anything blocking blueprints in general folks wanna discuss?
<m_3> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Server Team Events
<Daviey> None?
<m_3> ODS on the horizon... bu-dum-dum
<m_3> gluecon's not too far off
<arosales> m_3: we need to add gluecon to the juju events page. I all get with jcastro_ on that.
<jcastro_> I thought we did? On it.
<arosales> #link https://juju.ubuntu.com/Events/
<m_3> thought we had
<arosales> jcastro_: thanks.
 * arosales doesn't see it, but I may have missed it
<m_3> ok, moving on
<m_3> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (plars)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (plars)
<m_3> plars: ?
<plars> m_3: nothing from me at the moment
 * hallyn keeps his fingers crossed....
<hallyn> woohoo
<plars> hallyn: well, I'm sure I could think of something if you're bored :)
<hallyn> :)
 * hallyn only shows up for his weekly rebuke :)
<m_3> cool
<m_3> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<smb> Not much to report today. Trying some FFE for Xen and still debugging another issue.
<smb> ..
<m_3> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<rbasak> Nothing new to report. Any questions for me?
<jcastro_> arosales: /Events updated.
<m_3> jcastro_: danke
<m_3> rbasak: looks like you're in the clear
<m_3> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Open Discussion
<arosales> jcastro_: thanks
<m_3> man, y'all're pretty subdued today
<m_3> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<m_3> next week
<m_3> cool... thanks everybody!
<m_3> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Mar 26 16:26:20 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-03-26-16.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-03-26-16.00.html
<hallyn> o/
<arosales> thanks for chairing m_3
<m_3> arosales: np
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Mar 26 17:00:04 2013 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/raring
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<smb> o/
<cking> o/
<henrix> o/
<ogasawara> o/
<kamal> o/
<rtg_> o/
<bjf> o/
<ppisati> o/
<sforshee> o/
<sconklin> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> R/master: the -omap flavour was renamed -generic and support for Calxeda SOC was added to it.
<ppisati> The -generic rename, coupled with the deletion of R/omap4 and the removal of the highbank
<ppisati> flavour from master, officialy mark the beginning of arm multiplatform support
<ppisati> in UBUNTU.
<ppisati> ..
<rtg_> cool
<ogasawara> woohoo
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/~canonical-kernel-distro-team/+upcomingwork
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-raring/canonical-kernel-distro-team.html
<ogasawara> || apw       || hardware-r-kernel-config-review       || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ||           || hardware-r-delta-review               || 3 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||           || foundations-r-secure-boot             || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ||           || foundations-r-aarch64                 || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ||           || foundations-r-upstart-user-session-enhancements || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> ||           || foundations-1303-phablet-kernel-maintenance || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> || ogasawara || hardware-r-kernel-config-review       || 3 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||           || hardware-r-kernel-version-and-flavors || 2 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||           || hardware-r-arm-kernel-maintenance     || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ||           || hardware-r-kernel-misc                || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || ppisati   || hardware-r-kernel-config-review       || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || rtg       || hardware-r-delta-review               || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || sforshee  || foundations-1303-phablet-kernel-maintenance || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> The above summarizes the remaining work items owned by individuals on
<ogasawara> our team for the rest of the 13.04 cycle.
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Raring Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Raring Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> We have rebased Raring to the latest v3.8.4 upstream stable kernel and
<ogasawara> uploaded.  We have also began work to provide support for highbank in
<ogasawara> Raring.  We have also rebased our unstable-3.9 branch to the latest
<ogasawara> upstream v3.9-rc4.
<ogasawara> Please be aware that Beta Freeze is fast approaching, ie this Thurs Mar
<ogasawara> 28.  We will perform one more upload either today or tomorrow prior to
<ogasawara> Beta Freeze.  Beta release is then next week on Apr 4 and Kernel Freeze
<ogasawara> is the following week on Apr 11.  All patches submitted after Kernel
<ogasawara> Freeze must adhere to our SRU policy.
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Mar 28 - 13.04 Beta Freeze (~2 days)
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Apr 04 - 13.04 Final Beta Release (~1 week)
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Apr 11 - Kernel Freeze (~2 weeks)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (sconklin)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's (sconklin)
<sconklin> == 2013-03-26 (weekly) ==
<sconklin> Currently we have 73 CVEs on our radar, with 8 CVEs added and 25 CVE retired this week.
<sconklin> See the CVE matrix for the current list:
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<sconklin> Overall the backlog has decreased slightly this week:
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/status/cve-metrics.txt
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<sconklin> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Quantal/Precise/Oneiric/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/henrix)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Quantal/Precise/Oneiric/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/henrix)
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until tiday (Feb. 26):
<bjf>   *   Hardy - Nothing this cycle
<bjf>   *   Lucid - In Prep; (2 commits)
<bjf>   * Oneiric - In Prep; 4 upstream releases; (100 commits)
<bjf>   * Precise - In Prep; 1 upstream releases; (150 commits)
<bjf>   * Quantal - In Prep; 1 upstream releases; (164 commits)
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<bjf> Future stable cadence cycles:
<bjf>   * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RaringRingtail/ReleaseInterlock
<bjf> We respun the Quantal and Precise kernels yesterday. All derivative
<bjf> kernels will need to be respun.
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Mar 26 17:04:46 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-03-26-17.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-03-26-17.00.html
<sconklin> thanks jsalisbury !
<cking> thanks again jsalisbury
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-03-27
 * slangasek waves
<jodh> o/
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Mar 27 15:02:08 2013 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<slangasek> jodh: thanks for confirming I'm in the right place ;-)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: lightning round
<jodh> :)
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek ogra cjwatson xnox stokachu)
<slangasek> stgraber doko bdmurray cjwatson barry ogra jodh xnox ev slangasek stokachu
<stgraber> Feature work:
<stgraber>  - Upstart (BLUEPRINT: foundations-r-upstart-user-session-enhancements)
<stgraber>   - Ported ssh-agent and im-config to user sessions, giving us fully working user sessions now.
<stgraber>   - Pushed those new jobs and an updated dbus job to the archive.
<stgraber>   - Quick packaging review of upstart 1.8 and helped preparing the bzr branch.
<stgraber>   - Looked at the state of the dconf bridge, did some minor fixes.
<stgraber>   - Discussed nm-connection-* events, to be added for 13.10.
<stgraber>  - Container (BLUEPRINT: servercloud-r-lxc)
<stgraber>   - Usual code review.
<stgraber>   - Fixed some issues with make dist/clean.
<stgraber>   - We now allow armhf cloud instances.
<stgraber>   - Some small tweaks to lxc-start-ephemeral.
<stgraber>   - Mostly feature frozen for 0.9, planning to release on Monday.
<stgraber>   - Some LXC/Android debugging.
<stgraber>  - Mobile updates (BLUEPRINT: foundations-1303-single-image-update)
<stgraber>   - Had a few more meetings on the implementation of image based updates.
<stgraber>   - Updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ImageBasedUpgrades/Mobile to something we feel should be a good first implementation.
<stgraber>   - Created https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ImageBasedUpgrades/Mobile/LocalPackages to cover the installation of extra packages from the archive.
<stgraber> Other work:
<stgraber>  - Some random discussions on LXC, initial review of a Go binding, ...
<stgraber>  - Testing the quantal isc-dhcp SRU.
<stgraber>  - Poked people to send their ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu updates in, reviewed, fixed, got new translation templates and pushed everything.
<stgraber>  - DMB meeting
<stgraber> Other time spent:
<stgraber>  - Peer reviews
<stgraber> TODO:
<stgraber>  - Track down ACL bug in QATracker
<stgraber>  - Start prototyping image based upgrades.
<stgraber>  - Come up with the list of Xsession scripts that still need porting to upstart user-sessions (outside of standard desktop install).
<stgraber>  - ifupdown SRU to quantal and precise
<stgraber> Holidays:
<stgraber>  - This Friday is a national holiday.
<stgraber>  - Next Monday is also a national holiday but I'll be working anyway (swap day)
<stgraber> (DONE)
<slangasek> doko_: here?  (your turn)
<bdmurray> I'll start then
<slangasek> bdmurray: thanks
<bdmurray> review of ubuntu-release-upgrader bug day work (i.e. bug triage)
<bdmurray> review of and reply to release upgrader bugs email to the bugsquad mailing list
<bdmurray> duplicate search of bug 1045559 (Ultimate Edition images broken)
<ubottu> bug 1045559 in Ultimate Edition "Ultimate Edition images are broken. Use official Ubuntu 12.04 LTS images." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1045559
<bdmurray> investigation into ubiquity bug 1159566 regarding problem with merge list
<ubottu> bug 1159566 in redeclipse (Ubuntu) "FFe: Sync redeclipse 1.4-1 (multiverse) from Debian experimental (contrib)" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1159566
<bdmurray> errors: updated user parameter setting to not clobber package or release setting
<bdmurray> errors: removed ~ stuff from subscriber_name in errors
<bdmurray> errors: redesign of new buckets for package / version work
<bdmurray> errors: wrote code and merge proposals for new buckets work
<bdmurray> errors: pushed a fix for bug 1160023
<bdmurray> reported bug 1159996 regarding daisy / errors
<ubottu> bug 1160023 in Errors "Bucket page links to a release specific page" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1160023
<bdmurray> reported errors bug 1160023 regarding raring specific link
<ubottu> bug 1159996 in Daisy "bucketmetadata has a key for source package but daisy inserts binary package" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1159996
<bdmurray> uploaded SRU for bug 1120322 to Precise
<bdmurray> uploaded bash-completion SRU bug 1019217
<bdmurray> uploaded aptdaemon bug fix for bug 898851
<ubottu> bug 1120322 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu Precise) "update-manager crashed with UnboundLocalError in show_diff(): local variable 'line_number' referenced before assignment" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1120322
<ubottu> bug 1019217 in bash-completion (Ubuntu Precise) "[SRU] Tab completion with tar -df, -tf, and -xf don't support spaces in file name" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1019217
<ubottu> bug 898851 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu) "update-manager crashed with TypeError in function(): Must be number, not tuple" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/898851
<bdmurray> speaking of bug 898851 I can't find a bucket for it at errors so I'm uncertain whether or not to SRU it
<bdmurray> SRU verification of bug 1094777
<bdmurray> special SRU review of ubuntu-geoip and gnome-screenshot
<bdmurray> investigation into firefox-lp-improvements issue with loading tags / stock replies
<ubottu> bug 1094777 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "Can't use c-n-r-gtk to initiate Quantal -> Raring update" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1094777
<bdmurray> performance review work
<bdmurray> I'm out next week Wed through Fri
<bdmurray> done
<slangasek> stgraber: setting aside the extra-packages question, when do you think you'll have a first prototype of image updates?
<cjwatson> Self-appraisal.
<cjwatson> Lots more work on cdimage.
<cjwatson>  * Put together a system for letting Jenkins control which images are marked as "current" based on the output of automatic tests.  This is now just waiting for QA to hook it up from their side.
<cjwatson>  * I'm a few hundred lines of unit tests away from having a complete Python rewrite of publish-release, after which there are only a few small odds and ends left in shell.
<cjwatson> openssh upload including fix for bug 952185 and Upstart ssh-agent user job support.
<cjwatson> Tried to sort out the Haskell transition a bit more, since it's making it very difficult to see what else is stuck in -proposed.  Fixed haskell-cryptohash on powerpc, and made some progress with haskell-conduit on armhf but currently stalled (http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/7794).  Much swearing.
<ubottu> bug 952185 in gdm (Ubuntu Precise) "~/.pam_environment not parsed by default" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/952185
<cjwatson> Reviewed addition of autopkgtest to libpipeline.
<cjwatson> Reviewed pkg-config change in phablet-team/ppa; preparing matching upload to raring.
<cjwatson> National holidays this Friday and Monday.
<cjwatson> ..
<stgraber> slangasek: I expect to have the code to generate the diffs serverside and the downloader/updater tool done this week. I have no clear estimation of the time needed to get the ClockWord changes done and get that stuff actually running on the nexus7
<slangasek> stgraber: ok
<ogra_> no barry ?
<slangasek> stgraber: can I ask you to flesh out the blueprint with some work items now that there's a clearer description of the work? (https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-1303-single-image-update)
<slangasek> no barry (vac)
<slangasek> ogra_: your turn then
<ogra_> ah, going ahead then
<ogra_> done:
<ogra_>  * started on the livecd-rootfs changes for building android base images on the amd64 builder
<ogra_>  * various bughunts
<ogra_>  * fixes for ubuntu-session in ubuntu touch
<ogra_>  * added legal disclaimer to cdimage download page
<ogra_>  * hunt down issue with mtp when trying to flash ubuntu touch (bug 1160847)
<ubottu> bug 1160847 in gvfs (Ubuntu) "please add an option to inhibit gvfs mtp mounts " [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1160847
<ogra_>  * power management on ubuntu touch meeting
<stgraber> slangasek: ah yeah, good point, I'll do that
<ogra_>  * some flash-kernel discussions about handling server installs as well as LXC containers
<ogra_>  * lost a good bunch of unsaved work thanks to indicator-weather producing a 36G .xsession-errors in about 30min (and filling my disk to 100%) :/
<slangasek> stgraber: thanks much!
<ogra_> todo:
<ogra_>  * finish building of android image parts for ubuntu touch on the livefs builder
<ogra_>  * look into android-x86 or other emulator possibilities to ship with the SDK
<ogra_>  * look into abilities to update the kernel from packages on android based images
<ogra_> ..
<jodh> * blueprints:
<jodh>   - foundations-r-upstart-roadmap: np.
<jodh>   - foundations-r-upstart-user-session-enhancements
<jodh>     - Made initctl2dot(8) user-session-aware.
<jodh>     - Progress on DEP-8 python test harness.
<jodh>     - Released Upstart 1.8 and landed in Raring with a new
<jodh>       upstart-monitor package (yah - I did the splits! :-)
<jodh> * misc:
<jodh>   - Completed appraisal and peer reviews.
<jodh>   - Finished mountall apport hook and handed to slangasek for Debian sync.
<jodh>   - Updates to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Apport/DeveloperHowTo
<jodh>   - Friday+Monday are a national holiday.
<jodh> * TODO:
<jodh>   - bug 1157713.
<ubottu> bug 1157713 in upstart "upstart tests which run without inotify fail occasionally" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1157713
<jodh>   - Upstart Raring TechnicalOverview details.
<jodh>   - investigate system behaviour wrt slangaseks quiesced event.
<jodh> á¹
<jodh>  
<xnox> oh me.
<xnox> * Regenerated app-install-data-ubuntu (needs another upload to include
<xnox>   100's of scopes)
<xnox> * revert ubiquity to metacity VM, pending test.
<xnox> * fix qt4's moc failing bug #1119656
<xnox> * fix mdadm bug #1127867
<xnox> * did test rebuild with boost1.53 and forward some bugs to Debian.
<ubottu> bug 1119656 in qt4-x11 (Ubuntu) "plot-qt demo fails to build with Boost 1.53" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1119656
<xnox>   Looking very good: http://people.canonical.com/~xnox/boost1.53/
<ubottu> bug 1127867 in mdadm (Ubuntu Precise) "/etc/udev/rules.d/65-mdadm.vol_id.rules uses non-existent 'vol_id'" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1127867
<xnox> * Working on tracing down bug #1080701
<ubottu> bug 1080701 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Raring) "After 'Preparing to install Ubuntu' screen, raring installation hangs" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1080701
<xnox> * Working on implementing a few utah installer tests (static analysis
<xnox>   & lvm installations)
<xnox> * Short week had this monday off, and Friday-Monday is Eastern.
<xnox> * Did reviews...
<xnox> * Fix upstart job integration between avahi & cups (remote queues) bug #1158686
<ubottu> bug 1158686 in avahi (Ubuntu) "When restarting avahi-daemon cups does not reconnect to it - workaround" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1158686
<xnox> * Fix top fuse/ntfs-3g crasher bug #1019806
<ubottu> bug 1019806 in ntfs-3g (Ubuntu) "ntfs-3g crashed with SIGABRT in get_node()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1019806
<xnox> ..
<stgraber> xnox: do we now have a wiki page on how to update app-install-data-ubuntu?
<ev> - Performance review.
<ev> - Debugging problems with the retracer deployment on stagingstack.
<ev>   - Quite a few fixes to the retracer code.
<ev>   - Slowed down massively by an inability to deploy to lcy02:
<ev>     https://rt.admin.canonical.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=60371
<ev>     - Whinging at James. Please follow up with canonical support if you're
<ev>       receiving error states when deploying to canonistack. They wont have the
<ev>       incentive to buy more hardware if they don't know there's a problem.
<ev> - Discussion with Martin, James, and Tom Haddon on never marking retraces as
<ev>   failed:
<ev>   https://bugs.launchpad.net/daisy/+bug/1159849
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1159849 in Daisy "We shouldn't ever mark retraces as failed." [Undecided,New]
<slangasek> xnox: what's the context of reverting ubiquity to metacity?
<ev>   So we will ask for a new core file from the next person in line when a
<ev>   retrace of the respective Stacktrace Address Signature for that crash fails.
<ev>   To be clear, this is gated. We're only asking for a core file per SAS when we
<ev>   don't have one or just discarded one because it failed.
<ev>   The end result of this will be that you wont see these pages that give you no
<ev>   actionable information and a worryingly high instance count:
<ev>   https://errors.ubuntu.com/bucket/?id=failed%3A%2Fsbin%2Finit%3A11%3Ai686%3A%2Flib%2Fi386-linux-gnu%2Flibpthread-2.15.so%2B61b8%3A%2Flib%2Fi386-linux-gnu%2Flibc-2.15.so%2Bb8083%3A%2Flib%2Fi386-linux-gnu%2Flibpthread-2.15.so%2B10464%3A%2Fsbin%2Finit%2Bab29%3A%2Fsbin%2Finit%2Bc25d%3A%2Fsbin%2Finit%2Bd295%3A%2Fsbin%2Finit%2Bf714%3A%2Flib%2Fi386-linux-gnu%2Flibnih.so.1.0.0%2Bd6d1%3A%2Fsbin%2Finit%2B4f23
<ev> - Lots of improvements to https://errors.ubuntu.com. Let me know if you're not
<ev>   using this every day and why, or what we can do to improve the experience for
<ev>   you.
<ev> - Started to teach apport to look for dbgsyms relative to the crash report, not
<ev>   to the release it came from. This was manifesting as not being able to
<ev>   retrace crashes from precise when some of the dependencies are present in
<ev>   -proposed. We've worked around this for right now by removing proposed from
<ev>   our retracer sources.
<ev> - Code review for Brian. Discussion on the implementation of phased updates.
<ev>   The plan of the moment is to poll Errors from Launchpad or some intermediate
<xnox> stgraber: not yet, I did updates & comments in the package. But I now know that I didn't do it quite right. Will document better in the package and link up from release-relevant wiki.
<ev>   service, rather than Errors pushing the data out. This is nice for data
<ev>   locality. Launchpad knows the versions that need to be compared for the
<ev>   phasing, it also knows who to notify when the the list of new buckets it gets
<ev>   from Errors is not empty.
<ev> Blocked:
<ev> - https://portal.admin.canonical.com/60205 - This will give us a (hopefully)
<ev>   much better picture on the average errors per calendar day graph. It's got a
<ev>   fair few things in front of it on the webops queue:
<ev>   https://portal.admin.canonical.com/ruins?team=losa
<ev> (done)
<xnox> slangasek: compiz or window decorates or both crashing and hence preventing the user from doing any keyboard input and thus preventing a user from completing installation.
<stgraber> xnox: cool, thanks
<ogra_> slangasek, tons of bugs we drowned in since the switch ...
<xnox> slangasek: not reproducible in the ubuntu full desktop session. Thus very specific to ubiquity-dm. Revert to metacity is a safe/known to work revert. And there is little compiz development time available.
<ogra_> the environment simply isnt the same
<ogra_> something to re visit in 13.10
<cjwatson> also we were using metacity up to quantal (I'd forgotten it was so recent)
<slangasek> xnox: ack, thanks for the explanation
<xnox> slangasek: also compiz & touch keyboard fighting over focus resulting in not being able to focus input field and have a working touch keyboard simultaniously.
<slangasek>  * assisting with the upstart 1.8 release
<slangasek>  * discussions around image-based updates
<slangasek>  * FFe discussions
<slangasek>  * monthly planning cadence: getting plans together for April
<slangasek>  * planning for client sprint in May
<slangasek>  * discussed within Canonical the proposal to drop Wubi from release; no objections, now I need to get this announced
<slangasek>  * spending some time hacking on compiz, to try to fix the worst window placement bugs that have been plaguing me forever; not sure yet if it's fixable without a library ABI change
<slangasek>  * on vacation from tomorrow until Tuesday
<slangasek> (done)
<xnox> cjwatson: slangasek: yeah correct. compiz was "new in raring feature" and didn't work out as good as hoped =)
<xnox> (plus the space saving is not there, as compiz is using libmetacity for window decorators)
<slangasek> and stokachu is off sprinting
<slangasek> so that's everyone that's here
<slangasek> #topic Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<slangasek> bdmurray:
<ogra_> yay for dropping wubi \o/
<xnox> slangasek: i'm pinged on the website front w.r.t. wubi. Drop it from ubuntu.com for 13.04 release?
<slangasek> xnox: if we're not releasing it for 13.04, then yes... :)
<bdmurray> bug 1158926 is trending high on errors
<ubottu> bug 1158926 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "update-manager crashed with libreoffice-emailmerge in _run_in_dialog()" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1158926
<bdmurray> https://errors.ubuntu.com/bucket/?id=%2Fusr%2Fbin%2Fupdate-manager%3Alibreoffice-emailmerge%3A_inline_callbacks%3Acommit%3A_inline_callbacks%3A_run_in_dialog
<slangasek> xnox: the comment from Steve George was that he would "ask Web to remove it entirely from the site going forward".  I don't know if he meant that would be retroactive for previous releases that are shown on the site
<bdmurray> its not clear to me if that's a libreoffice bug or not
<slangasek> xnox: but, I think that's "their" call; we released Wubi previously, whether they decide to link to advertise the previous releases on the website is up to them
<xnox> slangasek: well 12.04.2 is affected and there are no releases prior to that.
<xnox> as in wubi and 12.04.2 don't like each other =)
<slangasek> I think cjwatson was keen to fix the 12.04.2-affecting bug
<xnox> cjwatson: ack.
 * slangasek looks at 1158926
<slangasek> bdmurray: hrm, difficult to tell from that backtrace
<slangasek> bdmurray: are there any associated dpkg/apt logs?
<bdmurray> oh earlier in the terminal log we see this
<bdmurray> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/libreoffice-common_1%3a4.0.2~rc1-0ubuntu1~raring1~ppa2_all.deb (--unpack): trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/libreoffice/program/officehelper.py', which is also in package libreoffice-emailmerge 1:4.0.1-0ubuntu2
<bdmurray> dpkg-deb: error: subprocess paste was killed by signal (Broken pipe)
<slangasek> yeah, libreoffice bug then
<bdmurray> right, I'd missed that sorry
<bdmurray> bug 1157943 has a patch
<ubottu> bug 1157943 in apt (Ubuntu) "apt-get update fails hash checks on https repositories when file size changes" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1157943
 * slangasek follows up and asks David for comment
<bdmurray> when reviewing the ubuntu-release-upgrader bugs I came across bug 1078653 which seemed rather odd
<ubottu> bug 1078653 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "GRUB_PREFIX not set after dist-upgrade" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1078653
<bdmurray> additionally there were a multitude of failed upgrades due to PPA versions of Xorg packages and I wonder what we can do to make the upgrade process better
<cjwatson> 1078653 looks like a non-updated conffile
<slangasek> yep
<slangasek> so someone chose "keep my version" and kept an incompatible version
<slangasek> should probably be marked 'invalid' with explanation?
<cjwatson> or they weren't prompted
<cjwatson> does the upgrader prompt?
<slangasek> it's meant to
<cjwatson> would it be in /var/log/apt/term.log if it did?
<slangasek> no idea
<slangasek> IIRC yes
<slangasek> bdmurray: so, maybe follow up and ask for logs (which seem not to be attached)?
<bdmurray> slangasek: sounds good
<cjwatson> I'm following up
<slangasek> bdmurray: but as we don't have any other indications of conffile prompting not working correctly, I'd say it's a low priority issue (and ultimately probably invalid)
<cjwatson> it does seem likely, just being paranoid
<cjwatson> ok, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-release-upgrader/+bug/1078653/comments/8
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1078653 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "GRUB_PREFIX not set after dist-upgrade" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<slangasek> bdmurray: xorg ppa and upgrades> not sure; it's hard for the upgrader to know what the right thing to do is
<slangasek> do we want ppa packages downgraded on release upgrade?  do we want the ppa to be kept enabled, and upgrade to newer edge packages?
<slangasek> is there a general rule that we can apply, or is this all specific to the xorg ppa?
<bdmurray> sure, but it could be more informative about why it failed for the ubuntu-x-swat ppa at least
<slangasek> bdmurray: what does it say today?
<bdmurray> ERROR Dist-upgrade failed: 'E:Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.'
<bdmurray> see bug 1069133 for an example
<ubottu> bug 1069133 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "Get upgrade error 12.04 - 12.10 "Could not determine upgrade" - xorg from ppa" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1069133
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> is anyone here keen to take a stab at that?
<slangasek> bdmurray: sounds like a punt for now :/
<xnox> slangasek: is that just upgrade from 12.04 -> 12.10 with x-ppa enabled?
<slangasek> xnox: yes
 * xnox can easily run this.
<slangasek> the release upgrader disables ppas, which makes a mess of the upgrade path when your ppas have pulled in newer versions of core packages
<xnox> and poke to troubleshoot it. VMs in tmpfs are very fast with local mirrors =)
<slangasek> xnox: seems like the best outcome we can hope for right now is a more detailed error message, perhaps directing users to ppa-purge before upgrading
<slangasek> or perhaps describing how to keep the core ppa enabled during upgrade, so apt can calculate an upgrade correctly?
<slangasek> xnox: you want to take it then?
 * xnox assigned the bug to myself
<slangasek> SOLD to the man in the hat
<slangasek> bdmurray: anything else?
<bdmurray> bug 1090656 could use some brainstorming as to how this may have happened.
<ubottu> bug 1090656 in policykit (Ubuntu) "Passwords aren't accepted anymore by PolicyKit" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1090656
<bdmurray> From what I can gather it seems that at some point in time people are not able to upgrade their systems due to a password error.
<slangasek> I am confused by the bug description, why is glatzor berating himself
<bdmurray> he converted a question into a bug so became the owner of it I believe
<slangasek> ah :)
<bdmurray> he asked me if I'd seen similar issues to that type of issue
<slangasek> there seems to be very little information to go on in the bug
<slangasek> what version is this happening with?
<ogra_> 11.1
<ogra_> :)
<ogra_> the january edition :)
<slangasek> yeah
<slangasek> so the follow-up still sounds like "being prompted for a password but user doesn't know what the password is"
<slangasek> unlike the initial description from a different user
<slangasek> bdmurray: sorry, brainstorming doesn't give me any ideas as to a cause; I think we need more engagement from the affected users to narrow it down
<slangasek> (not any cause that's actually a bug in the software, I mean)
<ogra_> did we ever have any way of doing an install without a password ?
<slangasek> ogra_: "there's a password" != "the user knows the password"
<xnox> "the user knows the password" != "system is using expected caps lock & keyboard layout"
<bdmurray> or maybe there is a derivative that allows installing w/o a password.
<ogra_> "he had to down load the software and reinstall it and TOLD me he put NO PASSWORDS in"
<slangasek> the original submitter is clear about knowing the password and not having it honored; the follow-up comments are much more muddled
<ogra_> sounds to me like he did a reinstall without setting a password
<jodh> could it be that our password policy somehow became more restrictive and their passwords now fail to comply and get rejected?
<slangasek> ogra_: I don't think it's useful to try to read the tea leaves here; we need more information
<slangasek> jodh: nope
<cjwatson> password policies only ever affect changing a password, not entering an already-set one
<slangasek> precisely
<ogra_> yeah
<slangasek> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> one minute :)
<ev> slangasek: are you buried in other stuff and shall I pick up the NDA discussion with legal? Also, can you remember if we said that python tracebacks and sanitised stacktraces (locals and arguments removed) would be okay for an unauthenticated view? I remember James saying as much in a separate chat, but I can't recall if we reached consensus on that.
<slangasek> ev: am buried; if you want to pick it up, be my guest, would appreciate a cc: when you do; and I don't recall any discussion about sanitized stacktraces being public
<ev> also, does anyone have suggestions on how I can better spread the word on errors.u.c? Should I go around handing people data? :)
<ev> slangasek: *nods*
<ev> slangasek: any objections to sanitised stacktraces?
<slangasek> ev: I object to the spelling ;)
<slangasek> ev: otherwise, I only object if it's buggy
<ev> yeah, me too in most instances
<ev> I just keep reminding myself that as poor and British as my spelling and grammar get, I'll never reduce myself to writing "James's".
<ev> slangasek: noted
<ev> thanks
<slangasek> anything else?
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Mar 27 16:03:45 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-03-27-15.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-03-27-15.02.html
<slangasek> thanks, all!
<ogra_> thanks !
<xnox> cheers.
<stgraber> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-03-30
 * SuperEngineer plans evening... Dr. Who - followed by [turn off lights & plug in headohones] Amnesia, Descent Into Darkness
<SuperEngineer> [aka "The Dark Descent" .... into madness!]
<SuperEngineer> whoops = wrong channel -  sorry
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-03-24
<mdeslaur> \o
<jdstrand> hi!
 * sbeattie waves hello
<jjohansen1> o/
<tyhicks> hello
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Mar 24 16:35:28 2014 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<jdstrand> I'm happy to announce I just booted into the ipc kernel and apparmor userspace that is available in the dbus-dev ppa (it is in that ppa for historical reasons, there are no dbus changes)
<jdstrand> :)
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> so, as mentioned, I am running the ipc kernel and userspace. I plan to continue running it and report issues, feed information back to the team, etc
<jdstrand> I have to look into golang a bit and comment in its MIR (related to juju-core)
<jdstrand> oxide-qt will be uploaded to the archive soon, and I'll help with that as I can
<chrisccoulson> hi :)
<jdstrand> I have a couple of action items related to webbrowser-app/webapp-container moving to oxide that I will work on
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: hi!
<jdstrand> ScopesConfinement discussions have continued. I'm not sure I'll have more this week on that, but will be thinking about it for a meeting with the scopes team next week
<jdstrand> I have several embargoed items
<jdstrand> I'm on triage and will do updates if I can
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm on community this week
<mdeslaur> I have a bunch of updates to test
<mdeslaur> I'm about to push out ca-certificates updates for our stable releases
<mdeslaur> and also an initramfs-tools update to fix /run being mounted without noexec
<mdeslaur> and apache2
<mdeslaur> If I have any time pending those, I'll be going down the CVE list, as usual
<mdeslaur> that's it for me, sbeattie?
<sbeattie> I'm on apparmor this week
<sbeattie> I too am focused on testing the ipc kernel and userspace
<mdeslaur> is the ipc userspace pretty much done now?
<jjohansen1> no
<mdeslaur> I seem to recall discussion of syntax changes
<jjohansen1> right, very limited discussion on that happened
<jjohansen1> thats one of the things that needs to happen
<sbeattie> yeah, I'll look at that as well
<sbeattie> as part of testing
<jdstrand> I will probably be able to respond too now that I am starting to profile some things
<mdeslaur> jjohansen1: the userspace changes only affect userspace, right?
<jdstrand> aiui, really just the discussion needs to happen. once it does, the changes are trivial
<jjohansen1> mdeslaur: yes
<mdeslaur> jjohansen1: ok, cool
<sbeattie> anyway, I'm also monitoring fallout from the apparmor userspace upload from last week (though tyhicks got tagged with the lxc issue that was raised)
<sbeattie> and that's pretty much it for me.
<sbeattie> tyhicks: you're up
<tyhicks> I'm working on LXC regressions in AppArmor (LP: #1296459, LP: #1295774)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1296459 in apparmor (Ubuntu) "Upgrade from 2.8.0-0ubuntu38 to 2.8.95~2430-0ubuntu2 breaks LXC containers" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1296459
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1295774 in apparmor (Ubuntu) "ERROR processing policydb rules for profile lxc-container-default, failed to load" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1295774
<mdeslaur> tyhicks: any quick idea what could be the cause?
<tyhicks> the dfa generation for mount rules changed and it looks like some permissions are missing in the dfa
<tyhicks> mdeslaur: ^
<mdeslaur> ok
<tyhicks> it also looks like the mount.sh regression test is busted and exits early
<tyhicks> I'll fix that, too
<tyhicks> after that I'll help with AppArmor work items, as needed
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen1: you're up
 * jjohansen1 is working on apparmor again this week
<jdstrand> tyhicks: fyi, that could be considered as a separate uploading depending on the timing of things. if so, we could roll in the aa.py fixes
 * tyhicks nods
<jdstrand> s/uploading/upload/
 * jjohansen1 is working on more ipc revisions to apparmor
<jjohansen1> and will be coordinating with sbeattie, tyhicks, ...
<mdeslaur> jjohansen1: what's the current status...have you managed to wrangle some of the bugs you had last week?
<sbeattie> jdstrand: there's other bits to pull in as well as aa.py fixes, some of the testsuite fixes address issues that show up on arm/ppc64el
<jjohansen1> mdeslaur: they are a work in progress, so not done
<mdeslaur> cool
<jjohansen1> so I am still working on the bugs from last week, and turned up a few more and fixed those
<jjohansen1> I think that is it from me sarnold, your up
<sarnold> I'm in the happy place this week, which means working on MIRs, which will make some people very happy indeed :)  I've got juju-core, glusterfs, schroot, and strongswan to review and I don't think they're all doable this week, but I aim to make progress on them :)
<sarnold> if there's a new apparmor upload in the works I may do that one again, to keep those neurons fresh and try to take work from jjohansen1 and sbeattie
<sarnold> it depends upon how much effort the brain-dumps would take, I guess
<jdstrand> tyhicks may be able to help there. let's be flexible
<sarnold> oh okay
<tyhicks> we'll decide on the fly
<jdstrand> sarnold: (and thanks for offering, we might need it)
<sarnold> I think that's it for me, chrisccoulson, your turn :)
<chrisccoulson> i'm just about to upload oxide to the archive :)
<jdstrand> \o/
<jdstrand> huge milestone-- great job :)
<chrisccoulson> and then i've got a bunch of reviews that i need to get through for webapps
<chrisccoulson> other than that, it's business as usual :)
<chrisccoulson> did everyone see the blog posts?
<mdeslaur> chrisccoulson: congrats!
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: was there another recent one beyond http://www.chriscoulson.me.uk/blog/?p=242?
<jdstrand> I know of that and http://www.chriscoulson.me.uk/blog/?p=196
<sarnold> chrisccoulson: heh, I saw the one about oxide running on raw egl, no display managers...
<chrisccoulson> jdstrand, http://www.chriscoulson.me.uk/blog/?p=251
<mdeslaur> chrisccoulson: nice
<ScottK> o/
<mdeslaur> hi ScottK!
<ScottK> You might want to consider promoting clamav 0.98.1 from backports to updates or security/updates.  0.97.8 is not able to use all the current virus definitions and so there's a capability/security gap there if people aren't using backports.
<ScottK> I think both upstream and the packaging are in a pretty stable place ATM.
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: ah, nice!
<mdeslaur> ScottK: oh, cool. Is there a bug open about this?
<ScottK> No.
<ScottK> I can open one if you want, I thought it was worth a discussion first.
<ScottK> There's no CVE's the force it, but I think we're at a point where it would be smart.
<mdeslaur> ScottK: I think it definitely makes sense if the engine can't parse all the signatures...is there a link somewhere upstream where that is mentioned
<mdeslaur> ?
<ScottK> I suspect it's in the changelog.
<ScottK> Let me look.
<mdeslaur> ScottK: if you could please open a bug with a link, and assign it to me, I'll take care of it
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> I don't immediately see it in the Changelog, it may take reading the code.
<ScottK> (there's a variable that gets bumped.
<ScottK> Also there's on access scanning now that works with our kernel.
<ScottK> Other goodness too.
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: I think we're done?
<jdstrand> can this be taken to the bug or is there more discussin needed here?
<jdstrand> ok
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/php-radius.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gamera.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/offlineimap.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/banshee.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/python-scipy.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<ScottK> jdstrand: Working on the bug now.
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, tyhicks, jjohansen1, sarnold, chrisccoulson, ScottK: thanks
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Mar 24 17:17:00 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-03-24-16.35.moin.txt
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
<jjohansen1> thanks jdstrand
<sarnold> thanks jdstrand!
<tyhicks> thanks!
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks
<Noskcaj> morning micahg-work
<micahg-work> hi
<Noskcaj> Can you give me a testimonial too, or are you only allowed to vote in +1 -1 ?
<bdrung> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> bdrung, ScottK, Laney, micahg, barry, tumbleweed, stgraber: DMB ping
<ScottK> \o
<micahg-work> tumbleweed, ignore
<micahg-work> bdmurray, xnox:  DMB ping
<ScottK> I may be off and on due to spotty wifi.
<bdrung> we are three. one more missing to be quorate.
<ScottK> I may drop off at any time, so I probably shouldn't count anyway.
<bdrung> Laney, stgraber, bdmurray, xnox: DMB ping
 * bdrung will wait some minutes for them to show up. Otherwise he has to cancel the DMB meeting today.
<Noskcaj> Please may they turn up
<stgraber> I'm around now
<stgraber> I actually have to disappear for a sec (irssi problem)
<bdrung> okay, then let's start the meeting (hoping that ScottK will stay with us)
<bdrung> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Mar 24 19:27:06 2014 UTC.  The chair is bdrung. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<bdrung> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review of previous action items
<bdrung> stgraber: Did you add the new DMB members?
<stgraber> yep
<bdrung> stgraber: the dmb-ping doesn't seem to be update
<rww> I can correct that for you. Changes?
<stgraber> rww: that'd be great. Remove barry and tumbleweed and add xnox and bdmurray
<stgraber> bdrung: oops, yeah, forgot about that one.
<rww> !dmb-ping =~ s/barry, tumbleweed,/xnox, bdmurray,/
<ubottu> I'll remember that rww
<bdrung> thanks
<bdrung> moving on
<bdrung> #topic Xubuntu packageset/MOTU application from Jackson Doak
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Xubuntu packageset/MOTU application from Jackson Doak
<bdrung> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Noskcaj#MOTU
<bdrung> Noskcaj: please introduce yourself
<Noskcaj> Hello everyone, i'm Jackson Doak. I've been doing packaging work since mid 2013, and would like to gain upload rights.
<Noskcaj> Is there anything specific i should be saying?
<bdrung> no. we will ask you questions.
<Noskcaj> A large portion of my work is keeping Xfce/Xubuntu up to date, as well as other, minor DEs
 * bdrung is still reading the application wiki (sorry for not having time to do that earlier)
<bdrung> Noskcaj: so xfce you are using xfce?
<Noskcaj> yes
<stgraber> Noskcaj: so it's been exactly a month since your last application, what steps did you take to resolve some of the hilighted issues?
<Noskcaj> I've been making sure i test build everything i work on, and only taking patches that have been tested
<Noskcaj> Also, reading debian and upstream changelogs more extensively
<Noskcaj> I believe my quality of work has improved in the last month, and since i first applied in january. Next month i should finally have my dev PC working too.
<micahg-work> Noskcaj, so, you made a call for sponsoring shortly after the last meeting, but there was an issue with that, do you understand what that was and what steps would you take to prevent that from happening in the future
<Noskcaj> micahg, yes. I made a call for sponsoring during a freeze which meant very few things could actually get sponsored, plus i said some changes were "release critical", but that was only for final release
<Noskcaj> In future i won't call for sponsoring in freezes, and will check if a package is seeded before uploading
<bdrung> Noskcaj: what steps do you do before uploading (or requesting an upload)?
<Noskcaj> Check no one else is working on the package, test build it and make sure i'm not adding regressions, check if it's affected by any current freezes/transitions, upload
<bdrung> Noskcaj: how do you test to not introduce regressions?
<Noskcaj> changelog checking, testbuilding, automated checks like lintian and blhc, upstream bug trackers, not packaging unstable releases unless needed
<bdrung> Noskcaj: do you install the packages and run them before uploading?
<Noskcaj> bdrung, When possible, but it's difficult for me to do due to hardware limitation. That will be fixed in a few weeks time
<Noskcaj> (When i will have my VM server finished)
<bdrung> Noskcaj: are you subscribed to the ubuntu-devel-announce mailing list?
<Noskcaj> yes
<micahg-work> Noskcaj, could you please explain the difference between CFLAGS, CPPFLAGS, and CXXFLAGS
<Noskcaj> They are all makefile macros. Cflags is for C only, CXXflags is for C++, CPPflags for both
<bdrung> Noskcaj: why is CPPFLAGS for both?
<Noskcaj> It's where preprocessor flags go, which both c and C++ use
<micahg-work> Noskcaj, where's your reference for that?
<Noskcaj> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5541946/cflags-ccflags-cxxflags-what-exactly-do-these-variables-control
<Noskcaj> I don't know C or C++, but i do understand what the flags do
<micahg-work> Noskcaj, did you notice the first comment on that response?
<Noskcaj> oh
<Noskcaj> 1. I feel stupid now 2. Thanks for telling me to look there
<micahg-work> Noskcaj, I certainly did not intend to make you feel stupid
<bdrung> no questions are left. so let's vote.
<micahg-work> we don't have quorum
<bdrung> ScottK voted in private for this case. so we still have quorum.
<bdrung> #vote Should Jackson Doak become MOTU?
<meetingology> Please vote on: Should Jackson Doak become MOTU?
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<stgraber> -1 [A month ago I said "I'd prefer to have you work for a few more months through sponsors", since it has only been a month, I'm sticking to my vote]
<meetingology> -1 [A month ago I said "I'd prefer to have you work for a few more months through sponsors", since it has only been a month, I'm sticking to my vote] received from stgraber
<Noskcaj> stgraber, My reason for the only one month is i cannot apply again till the end of the year
<Noskcaj> just FYI
<bdrung> Noskcaj: why?
<micahg-work> -1 same as stgraber, though I'm glad to see the sponsors say that some improvement has been made
<meetingology> -1 same as stgraber, though I'm glad to see the sponsors say that some improvement has been made received from micahg-work
<Noskcaj> bdrung, 19UTC is currently 6am here, 6th of april, it becomes 5am
<Noskcaj> I struggled to make this meeting as it is
<bdrung> +1 [ Noskcaj is a young and passionate developer. He made mistakes and probably will make mistakes, but he is learning and improving ]
<meetingology> +1 [ Noskcaj is a young and passionate developer. He made mistakes and probably will make mistakes, but he is learning and improving ] received from bdrung
<micahg-work> Noskcaj, we can either do a vote by email or something else, we'll work with you
<bdrung> i got one -1 from ScottK
<bdrung> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Should Jackson Doak become MOTU?
<meetingology> Votes for:1 Votes against:2 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion denied
<Noskcaj> i'll try to apply by email then, but last time it took two months, two irc meetings, just to be told "-1 from everyone"
<bdrung> Noskcaj: sorry for not granting you upload rights. you are on the right path (improving and learning).
<Noskcaj> thanks
<Noskcaj> and for xubuntu packageset?
<bdrung> #vote Should Jackson Doak get upload rights to the Xubuntu packageset?
<meetingology> Please vote on: Should Jackson Doak get upload rights to the Xubuntu packageset?
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<stgraber> +0 [Same reason as previous vote, sticking to what I voted a month ago]
<meetingology> +0 [Same reason as previous vote, sticking to what I voted a month ago] received from stgraber
<Noskcaj> I'd expected to not get MOTU this meeting, but had to try. Xubuntu packageset i think i deserve since i've not had any bad uploads there, and micahg's time to upload stuff is fairly limited
<micahg-work> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from micahg-work
<bdrung> +1 [ same reason as for MOTU application ]
<meetingology> +1 [ same reason as for MOTU application ] received from bdrung
<bdrung> I got one -1 from ScottK
<bdrung> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Should Jackson Doak get upload rights to the Xubuntu packageset?
<meetingology> Votes for:1 Votes against:0 Abstentions:2
<meetingology> Motion carried
<Noskcaj> Is that actually motion carried or does scott's vote make is denied?
<bdrung> Noskcaj: sorry. this isn't enough for upload rights.
<Noskcaj> :(
 * Noskcaj flips table, leaves to get breakfast
<bdrung> we need +4 to carry a motion (with +0 and 3 absent member, you can't reach it any more)
<stgraber> Noskcaj: if you are still around for a few minutes, we do have a PPU proposal for you though
<bdrung> Noskcaj: your application is not denied, but deferred. Most of us think that you need more time until you get upload rights to learn and improve.
<Noskcaj> stgraber, I'll be around for another hour.
<Noskcaj> bdrung, ok. I should probably find time to learn a programming language in a meaningful way, but that does need a lot of time
<bdrung> Noskcaj: Do you want to get upload rights for catfish, parole, and mugshot?
<Noskcaj> bdrung, If possible, although menulibre, whiskermenu, gthumb, and maybe all of xfce could be added to that list
<bdrung> we add gthumb to the PPU list.
<bdrung> #vote Should Jackson Doak get upload rights for catfish, gthumb, parole, and mugshot?
<meetingology> Please vote on: Should Jackson Doak get upload rights for catfish, gthumb, parole, and mugshot?
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<bdrung> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdrung
<micahg-work> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg-work
<stgraber> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
<Noskcaj> Thanks, it's something.
<stgraber> so that's 3/4, ScottK proposed this (except for gthumb) so I believe he's likely to approve but final approval and granting of the rights will have to happen once he's back online
<Noskcaj> :)
<bdrung> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Should Jackson Doak get upload rights for catfish, gthumb, parole, and mugshot?
<meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<bdrung> Noskcaj: as previously said, we need +4 (out of seven). you got +3 from the three present members.
<Noskcaj> yep
<bdrung> Noskcaj: we will get the remaining vote(s) via IRC or mail later.
<Noskcaj> If i may ask, why is the whole dmb so rarely present at meetings?
<bdrung> Noskcaj: as stgraber already said, I assume you will get the missing vote and the PPU will be granted.
<bdrung> Noskcaj: we are distributed around the globe and real live can make it hard to attend. For example, the early meeting is in my work time and I can only attend if I do not have an other meeting.
<stgraber> Noskcaj: because most DMB members work, some have to travel (like ScottK today) and for some it's just too late or too early based on their repsective timezones
<Noskcaj> ok
<bdrung> Noskcaj: we will let you know about the outcome of the vote.
<Noskcaj> thanks
<bdrung> #topic Any other business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Any other business
<bdrung> next chair will be Brian (following the list)
<bdrung> anything left?
<bdrung> I guess not.
<bdrung> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Mar 24 20:51:20 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-03-24-19.27.moin.txt
<micahg-work> thanks bdrung
<bdrung> you're welcome
<bdrung> now i have to leave -> RL asks for my presence
<Noskcaj> Is there a wiki page for how to upload stuff?
<ScottK> stgraber: I'm +1 for gthumb too.
<stgraber> ScottK: thanks, I'll take care of granting the PPU then
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-03-25
<jamespage> o/
<matsubara> o/
<smb> o/
<lutostag> \o
<coreycb> o/
<zul> hi
<rharper> \o
<beisner> o/ morning!
<gaughen> just about to start it
<gaughen> getting my list of commands
<gaughen> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Mar 25 16:06:54 2014 UTC.  The chair is gaughen. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<arosales> Hello
<gaughen> good morning, good evening all
<gaughen> let's get this party started
<gaughen> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<gaughen> hrrm I don't see any
<gaughen> okay next item
<gaughen> #topic Trusty Development
<gaughen> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseSchedule
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Trusty Development
<gaughen> jamespage, anything on your mind today? asking since I blew right past you last time.
<jamespage> not today
<gaughen> excellent, excellent
<gaughen> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseSchedule
<gaughen> #subtopic Release Bugs
<gaughen> Final beta is this Friday
<gaughen> GA is coming up super SOON - April 17
<gaughen> aaaah!
<gaughen> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-t-tracking-bug-tasks.html#server
<gaughen> #subtopic Blueprints
<gaughen> oh shoot
<gaughen> I pasted the link from the wrong topic
<gaughen> nothing to say on blueprints. folks have been really good about updating them. the usual suspects need to update them, but I think there will be a lot of movement this week after the mini micro sprintastic event
<gaughen> #subtopic Release Bugs
<gaughen> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-t-tracking-bug-tasks.html#server
<gaughen> now let's look at bugs
<gaughen> jamespage, there are some friggin old bugs there
<gaughen> rbasak, --^
<jamespage> oh - always
<gaughen> should we just close them?
<gaughen> oh goodness, it's even worse when I scroll
<jamespage> no
<gaughen> I think some of those bugs are older than me
<zul> if there is breezy bugs then you should be worried
<rbasak> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-t-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server is our bit. I'll fix the URL in the agenda.
<rbasak> Oh. It's not in the agenda?
<gaughen> I'll fix the agenda
<gaughen> jamespage, zul - http://launchpad.net/bugs/1288696
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1288696 in neutron (Ubuntu Trusty) "Unable to migrate from ovs to ml2 plugin" [Critical,Triaged]
<rbasak> I just fixed ServerTeam/Meeting/IRCCommands
<gaughen> rbasak, excellent, thanks!
<zul> gaughen:  that got added this morning
<jamespage> (upstream)
<gaughen> rockin'
<zul> should be in rc1
<rharper> rbasak: yay!
<gaughen> very good zul
<gaughen> okay moving along
<gaughen> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<caribou> Nothing specific on my side
<gaughen> caribou said earlier that there wasn't anything to cover here
<gaughen> cool, thanks caribou !
<caribou> Completed the uvtool document in the server guide
<gaughen> caribou, EXCELLENT!!!!
<gaughen> rbasak --^
<caribou> MP got merged but we're in string freeze
<rbasak> Thank you caribou!
<caribou> rbasak: my pleasure
<rbasak> I'll mark that WI as done.
<caribou> nothing else here gaughen
<gaughen> thanks caribou, moving on
<gaughen> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
<gaughen> psivaa_, anything to report?
<gaughen> ..silence... moving on
<gaughen> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<smb> Xen-4.4 hit Trusty archive. Currently working on the fallout. So far it seems all issues can/need to be fixed in the libxl driver of libvirt.
<smb> That would be all from me...
<gaughen> so, I have a silly question
<gaughen> I thought we were taking xen out of 14.04?
<gaughen> jamespage, --^
<smb> gaughen, That was xanapi
<gaughen> am I making this stuff up?
<smb> xenapi
<jamespage> gaughen, no - xenapi
<jamespage> well tehcnically xcp
<gaughen> okay, cool. then I shall quiet down and move on
<jamespage> gaughen, we can't drop xen per say
<gaughen> thanks smb, jamespage moving on
<gaughen> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<smb> jamespage, I would mind that a lot :)
<rbasak> Nothing new to report. Any questions from me?
<rbasak> Uh, for me?
<gaughen> (oh and I wasn't telling you, jamespage, to move on ;-))
<gaughen> well from you or for you ;-)
<gaughen> .... silence...
<gaughen> okay, thanks rbasak, moving on
<gaughen> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<gaughen> any events?
<zul> ODS in may
<gaughen> thanks zul!
<gaughen> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<gaughen> anything else anybody wants to talk about?
<gaughen> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date and time
<gaughen> April 1st!
<gaughen> we can have an April Fools irc mtg
<gaughen> wonder how we can celebrate
<gaughen> anyhow, same time, same place on April 1st
<gaughen> and hopefully a different moderator
<rharper> hehe
 * gaughen goes and updates the wiki page RIGHT NOW!
<gaughen> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Mar 25 16:21:48 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-03-25-16.06.moin.txt
<gaughen> done and done
<gaughen> until next week
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Mar 25 17:00:39 2014 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Trusty
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<ppisati> o/
<kamal> o/
<henrix> o/
<sforshee> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> nothing new to report this week
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
 * cking saunters in
 * smb follows 
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/~canonical-kernel-distro-team/+upcomingwork
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-t/canonical-kernel-distro-team.html
<ogasawara> || apw       || core-1311-kernel                      || 4 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||           || core-1311-cross-compilation           || 2 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||           || core-1311-hwe-plans                   || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || ogasawara || core-1311-kernel                      || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ||           || core-1403-hwe-stack-eol-notifications || 2 work items ||
<ogasawara> || smb       || servercloud-1311-openstack-virt       || 3 work items ||
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Trusty Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Trusty Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> The 3.13.0-19.40 Trusty kernel has been uploaded to the archive.  We'll
<ogasawara> anticipate one more upload before kernel freeze on Thurs Apr 3.  If
<ogasawara> there are any patches which need to land in our 14.04 Trusty kernel, get
<ogasawara> them submitted to the Ubuntu kernel team mailing list asap.  After
<ogasawara> kernel freeze, all patches are subject to our Ubuntu SRU policy.
<ogasawara> -----
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseSchedule
<ogasawara> Thurs Apr 03 - Kernel Freeze (~1 week away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Apr 17 - Ubuntu 14.04 Final Release (~3 weeks away)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's
<jsalisbury> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Saucy/Raring/Quantal/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/kamal)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Saucy/Raring/Quantal/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/kamal)
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until today (Mar. 25):
<bjf>   *   Lucid - No changes this cycle
<bjf>   * Precise - No changes this cycle
<bjf>   * Quantal - Testing
<bjf>   *   Saucy - Testing
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Mar 25 17:07:07 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-03-25-17.00.moin.txt
<kamal> longest kteam meeting evvvaaarrr!    ;-)
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury!
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-03-27
 * slangasek waves
 * stgraber waves
 * barry wavers
<jodh> o/
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Mar 27 15:01:35 2014 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek cjwatson xnox caribou infinity)
<slangasek> doko slangasek infinity cjwatson bdmurray caribou barry jodh xnox stgraber
<slangasek> doko_: hi
<doko_>  - another round of GCC updates
<doko_>  - python 3.4 update, python 3.3 removal
<doko_>  - cleaning up a bit in -proposed, nbs
<doko_>  - scan for compiler ICEs in the 4.9 test rebuild, file upstream issues
<doko_>  - some random updates and ftbfs fixes
<doko_> (done) there was more, can't remember all ...
<barry> \o/ for 3.3 removal
<doko_> a few days remaining to remove ruby1.9.1 and update to ruby2.0 ;-P
<slangasek> oh?
<slangasek>  * catching up on the world after being heads-down on customer work for two weeks
<slangasek>  * moving forward on the Java role; expected to begin interviewing next week
<slangasek>  * participating in good discussions about the current landing process and bottlenecks around image promotion (cf. Qt5.2)
<slangasek>  * discussions around some late FFes coming in
<slangasek>  * performance review discussions using the new and improved process
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek> doko_: are we switching to ruby2.0 for trusty, or is it your turn to troll? :)
<slangasek> infinity's not here, so cjwatson:
<cjwatson> Finished landing upstart-app-launch performance improvements via libclick.
<cjwatson> Clawed away some of the backlog of uninstallables on arm64/ppc64el.
<cjwatson> grub-installer fixes for ppc64el.
<doko_> well, I assume security would like to only support one version, but nobody is pushing for it, and the puppet people won't look at it as usual :-/
<cjwatson> Continuing work on making ubuntu-sdk-libs-dev:armhf installable for "click chroot".  Landed: dee, libaccounts-glib.  Current blockers: libfriends, qml-friends.
<cjwatson> ubiquity fixes for final beta (reviewed bug 1297312, worked around bug 1296697).
<ubottu> bug 1297312 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Trusty) "ubiquity-dm fails with: FileNotFoundError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/indicator-application-service'" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1297312
<cjwatson> Started trying to get my juju cross-build environment back up on trusty.
<ubottu> bug 1296697 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Trusty) "Trusty Desktop installer crashed with "Encrypted Home" set" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1296697
<cjwatson> ..
<cjwatson> ruby updates are a long way behind - I spent some time looking at various bits, it's a mess
<cjwatson> like ruby-gnome2, we can fix it, realistically it'll take a new upstream version which'll need an FFe
<cjwatson> and it's kind of all like that
<cjwatson> but maybe I just don't know it well enough
<slangasek> doko_: who are "the puppet people"?
 * barry thinks that sounds like a great band name or horror movie title
<slangasek> doko_: in the future, can we please make such questions a UDS session, so that we discuss with the server team at the beginning of the cycle and get a committment from them to include this work on their roadmap for the cycle?
<barry> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0051381/
<slangasek> cjwatson: speaking of puppets, I had bug #1292628 escalated to me in person; this seems to be a regression in the interaction between grub-install, grub-installer, and kickseed following the recent grub-installer rewrite.  Do you think this should be on the radar for 14.04?
<ubottu> bug 1292628 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "'grub-install --force "(hd0)"' fails on trusty during installation" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1292628
<doko_> slangasek, how? the plans for 2.0 did start in debian only in January ...
<cjwatson> slangasek: I'll have a look
<slangasek> doko_: hmmm. put the UDS session on the agenda, and make the server team do their homework on ruby versions before the meeting? :)
<doko_> ok
<cjwatson> surprising that the grub-mkdevicemap code would have broken; so hopefully it's not too hard
<slangasek> the planning for ruby2.0 may have started in January, but I guess if someone would have asked the Debian ruby team in November they would've had a good guess
 * bdmurray is ready but waiting
<cjwatson> I vaguely recall the Debian ruby maintainer mentioning 2.0 at debconf in July/August or so
<slangasek> cjwatson: sorry, it's not grub-mkdevicemap that's the problem per se, the problem is that kickseed is feeding us '(hd0)' as an override and grub-install never has a device map on disk so seems to not do anything sensible
<cjwatson> though it was in passing and I don't think he mentioned a timescale
<cjwatson> slangasek: right, but the grub-mkdevicemap calling code in grub-installer is meant to deal with that just as it did in prior releases
<slangasek> hmm
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> stgraber: ?
<cjwatson> I'm not disbelieving the bug or anything, just saying it's hopefully shallow
<doko_> yes, met him at Connect a few weeks ago. I think we can't remove it, but likely demote it if puppet works with 2.0
<stgraber> slangasek: ?
<bdmurray> I think I was next so I'll start now
<bdmurray> confirm prodstack data is appearing on graphite
<bdmurray> reported daisy bug 1295400 regarding retracer sandboxes
<bdmurray> submitted merge proposal to daisy to remove sandbox dir data after each retrace (bug 1295400)
<ubottu> bug 1295400 in Daisy "retracer requires a lot of storage for instance sandboxes" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1295400
<bdmurray> merged thedac's changes to the daisy-retracer charm
<bdmurray> updated daisy's submit.py to reject crashes from armel systems as we have no retracer for them
<bdmurray> verified that bug 1267112 is in fact fixed since we have a bucket for the ubiquity / autopilot-gtk bug
<ubottu> bug 1267112 in Daisy "errors indicates a retraced crash but isn't showing a stack trace" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1267112
<bdmurray> investigation into hplip-data crashes missing package and sourcepackage information
<bdmurray> tested daisy (haproxy config) changes to reduce occurrence of 502 errors in whoopsie
<bdmurray> worked with thedac regarding missing OOPS reports from prodstack version of errors
<bdmurray> updated my apport retrace-package-versions merge proposal
<bdmurray> sent error tracker armhf announcement
<bdmurray> investigation into armhf crashes on errors (webbrowser-app failed to retrace, likely due to outdated debug symbol package for liblttng-ust0)
<bdmurray> SRU queue work with arges
<bdmurray> uploaded a fix for bug 1294392
<ubottu> bug 1294392 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "PAE check prevents Precise to Trusty upgrades on non-Intel ports" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1294392
<bdmurray> â done
<bdmurray> research into update-manager test suite failures (bug 1295392)
<ubottu> bug 1295392 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "test suite failures" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1295392
<slangasek> stgraber: hah, yes, somehow I thought you were next - sorry :)
<slangasek> caribou: anything you'd like to share today?
<caribou> I'm next, it'll be quick
<caribou> * Completed uvtool documentation in the server guide
<caribou> *btmp logging re-enabling (Debian bug #742775)
<ubottu> Debian bug 742775 in openssh-server "openssh-server: Please re-enable btmp logging" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/742775
<caribou> * Misc bug fixing
<caribou> Done
<barry> short week due to holiday
<slangasek> bdmurray: we should have noisemakers and party hats for the armhf retracers
<barry> phone: py3 autopilot: gallery-app, address-book-app.  trying to further debug phablet-test-run issues.
<barry> ubuntu/debian: LP: #1295392. LP: #1296325. pystache FTBFS. pip 1.5.3-1 (blocked on python-distutil in stuck in NEW).  ensurepip/pyvenv for debian.  other general debian work
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1295392 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "test suite failures" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1295392
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1296325 in oneconf (Ubuntu) "oneconf-query needs generic /usr/bin/python3 shebang" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1296325
<barry> other: debugging python import problems for security team (http://tinyurl.com/l7ps5br).  code reviews for other internal projects.
<barry> done
<jodh> * foundations-1305-upstart-work-items
<jodh>   - cgroup support: Spent a lot of time debugging the async spawn issue
<jodh>     with help from cjwatson. As a result of that, we're now planning not
<jodh>     to pursue the async spawning feature due to the fact that to
<jodh>     implement this fully would require an extensive refactoring of the
<jodh>     Upstart core. As such, I'm now refocusing on the cgroup branch with
<jodh>     the intention of either having Upstart manage its own cgroups, or
<jodh>     working with hallyn to refactor cgmanager to allow Upstart to
<jodh>     leverage that work in some form.
<jodh> * upstart
<jodh>   - Wrote draft release notes for Upstart
<jodh>     https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseNotes/TechnicalOverviewUpstart
<jodh>   - Reworked MP for logrotate improvements:
<cjwatson> caribou: fwiw I don't think the claim in that btmp bug is totally true; Debian stable at least still has -rw-rw---- 1 root utmp 0 Mar  1 08:02 /var/log/btmp
<jodh>     https://code.launchpad.net/~jamesodhunt/ubuntu/trusty/upstart/periodic-logrotate-using-events/+merge/212569
<jodh>   -
<jodh> â°
<cjwatson> caribou: this isn't simple, need to track down exactly what changed and when
<cjwatson> otherwise I'll cause regressions
<caribou> cjwatson: ok, will check that out
<stgraber> no xnox so I guess that's my turn then
<stgraber> LXC:
<stgraber>  - Finally tracked down our last 1.0.2 blocker, will release 1.0.2 today with cgmanager support enabled in Ubuntu (that may be our last LXC upload for the cycle)!
<stgraber>  - Some more CI infrastructure work (almost everything runs in Jenkins now)
<stgraber>  - Code reviews
<stgraber>  - A couple of bugfixes for lxc-ls performance when > 2k containers and userns config fixes
<stgraber>  - Fire fighting the latest apparmor breakage (they broke the parser causing quite a few bug reports for LXC upstream and in Ubuntu...)
<stgraber> logind:
<stgraber>  - Unblocked as the cgmanager MIR was finally approved!
<stgraber>  - Filed the FFe to get cgmanager support landed: bug 1297363
<ubottu> bug 1297363 in systemd (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Add cgmanager support" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1297363
<stgraber> network:
<stgraber>  - Uploaded a new ifupdown fixing quite a few bugs reported by CTS.
<stgraber>  - Uploaded a new vlan fixing another bug reported by CTS.
<stgraber>  - Did some more triaging of our network packages.
<stgraber>  - Answered some of lamont's OpenVPN questions and looked into a few NM OpenVPN crashes.
<cjwatson> caribou: ah, actually that's not a problem per the code ... would still like to know when/where btmp changed perms though
<stgraber> system-image:
<stgraber>  - some discussions and some code to get new image notifications delivered by the new push service.
<stgraber> other:
<stgraber>  - Helping lttng upstream update their packages to a stable version for 14.04.
<stgraber>  - Couple of CI-Train landings.
<stgraber>  - Some FFe and queue review.
<stgraber>  - Helped setup Beta 2, tested Edubuntu, fixed a couple of issues, added ppc64el to tracker + cdimage scripts, ...
<stgraber> (DONE)
<cjwatson> caribou: ah, and openssh itself has started allowing group rw since the bug was originally filed, too, which was the other part of i
<cjwatson> t
<slangasek> any questions over status?
<slangasek> btw, I should have mentioned, I'll be off Monday
<slangasek> [topic] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else today?
<bdmurray> Could someone have a look at bug 1296386 and related bug 1296373?
<slangasek> has someone started putting together beach recommendations for the May sprint?
<ubottu> bug 1296386 in casper (Ubuntu) "[PATCH] Remove 23etc_modules script" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1296386
<ubottu> bug 1296373 in hw-detect (Ubuntu) "[PATCH] Fix sound on PowerPC" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1296373
<slangasek> bdmurray: any reason those shouldn't be pushed to ubuntu-sponsors?
<slangasek> alternatively, you could check if infinity wants to have a look at this
<cjwatson> caribou: ah, I found it, https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=370050
<ubottu> Debian bug 370050 in logrotate "general: /var/log/btmp permission should be 660" [Wishlist,Fixed]
<bdmurray> ubuntu-sponsors deals with branches and debdiffs not ordinary patches last I knew
<cjwatson> ubuntu-sponsors largely shouldn't care about the format
<cjwatson> those are native packages, the difference between a patch and a debdiff is negligible
<bdmurray> I don't think it was the format so much as the volume
<bdmurray> However, the system (of choosing who to subscribe) was setup quite some time ago
<slangasek> I think it's fine to have separate frontline review of patch-tagged bugs to make sure they're actually ready for sponsorship, but in this case I think it would be ready for sponsorship
<bdmurray> slangasek: ah, that makes sense
<bdmurray> okay, I'll ping infinity and depending on that subscribe sponsors
<slangasek> bdmurray: sounds good
<slangasek> aught else?
<cjwatson> naught
<cjwatson> except for wondering why the sudden Elizabethan English :)
<slangasek> ;)
<cjwatson> sorry, "save for"
<slangasek> cjwatson: variety
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Mar 27 15:37:17 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-03-27-15.01.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks all
<barry> thanks!
<stgraber> thanks!
<jodh> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-03-28
<MikeyIsMe> why is there 140 people in here not talking to eachother?
<Z3R0C0D3R> On 1:dns: {
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-03-30
<phillw> pleia2: ping
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-03-23
<mdeslaur> \o
<tyhicks> hello
<jdstrand> hi!
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Mar 23 16:36:17 2015 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<tyhicks> Artur Rona (ari-tczew) provided a debdiff for jakarta-taglibs-standard in vivid (LP: #1433365)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1433365 in jakarta-taglibs-standard (Ubuntu) "Merge jakarta-taglibs-standard 1.1.2-3 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1433365
<tyhicks> Artur's work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job! :)
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: You're up
<jdstrand> I was happy last week to finally get the frameworks rfc to the snappy list
<jdstrand> I'll be nailing that down this week
<jdstrand> also working with mvo, et al on seccomp in the snappy launcher
<jdstrand> we also defined the snappy security yamllast week, so updating docs/trello cards for that
<jdstrand> beyond snappy I have one embargoed item
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> hey!
<mdeslaur> I'm on bug triage this week
<mdeslaur> and I have a few updates that I'm currently testing
<mdeslaur> I should be publishing them this afternoon or tomorrow morning
<mdeslaur> after that, I've got more in the pipeline
<mdeslaur> that's about it
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up!
<sbeattie> I'm on cve triage this week
<sbeattie> I've got some apparmor patch review to do as well as pulling in fixes to the apparmor package
<sbeattie> I need to continue testing my gcc-5 pie-on-amd64 packages
<sbeattie> that's pretty much it for me
<sbeattie> tyhicks: you're up
<tyhicks> I'm in the happy place this week
<tyhicks> Wrap up security review of the python-bcrypt MIR (LP: #1427861)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1427861 in python-bcrypt (Ubuntu) "[MIR] python-bcrypt (b-d of python-django)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1427861
<tyhicks> Review the initial snappy launcher code
<tyhicks> Land the libapparmor policy cache API changes
<tyhicks> (a few more patches need to be reviewed but I think they're all from jjohansen and are ones that I can review/ack)
<tyhicks> Restart work on AppArmor kernel keyring mediation for user data encryption
<tyhicks> Finish up the patches to fix bug #1430532 and send them out for review
<ubottu> bug 1430532 in AppArmor "libapparmor needs a public function to break a context into a label and mode" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1430532
<tyhicks> Embargoed item
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jj is out
<tyhicks> sarnold: you're up
<sarnold> I'm on community this week
<sarnold> I'm working on the backlog of openstack security fixes, I've made less progress than I had hoped with the serverstack testing framework, but wow is it nice to run a few commands and ahve two dozen machines come into existence and do my bidding
<tyhicks> nice
<sarnold> my first plan for specifying per-service package sources didn't work out, the updated packages weren't being installed, but beis ner suggested a small change that seems likely to succeed
<sarnold> I'm also repsonding to some last-minute MIR questions, it'd be nice to get all the needed ones moved forward for everyone, but that would probably require openstack to behave a bit more friendly for me.
<sarnold> that's it for me, chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> Hi :)
<chrisccoulson> This week, I plan to finish https://code.launchpad.net/~chrisccoulson/oxide/arale-fixes and get it merged in to trunk. It's running ok at the moment, and appears to fix the crashing. I've also found some future opportunities for optimising the new compositing path too
<chrisccoulson> I also plan to make a start on bug 1428754
<ubottu> bug 1428754 in Oxide "Persist permission request decisions for a session" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1428754
<chrisccoulson> Which will mean no more popup every single time you go to Google on the phone
<chrisccoulson> And it's also needed to unblock https://code.launchpad.net/~zaspire/oxide/web-notifications/+merge/251598
<chrisccoulson> I think that's me done
<tyhicks> chrisccoulson: Thanks for taking time out of your weekend to prepare, test, and publish the firefox updates
<chrisccoulson> sure, no problem :)
<tyhicks> :)
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/pam-pgsql.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libextlib-ruby.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/spice-gtk.html
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/smb4k.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/nsd3.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, sarnold, chriscoulson: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Mar 23 16:57:40 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-03-23-16.36.moin.txt
<teward> tyhicks: #ubuntu-security forwards to -hardened, right...?  (+if on the channel, hence my asking)
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks!
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks!
<tyhicks> teward: I'm not sure about that
<chrisccoulson> tyhicks, oh, I forgot to mention one other thing - I need to get firefox buildable again in 12.04 (since Mozilla bumped the GCC requirement to 4.7)
<tyhicks> mdeslaur: do you know the answer to teward's question? ^
<chrisccoulson> so I'll also be looking at that during this week
<teward> tyhicks: i can find out, easy as joining a test client up to freenode and join -security
<mdeslaur> teward: yes, it forwards
<tyhicks> teward: I just tried and couldn't join
<mdeslaur> for hyste^Horical heasons
<teward> tyhicks: I have +Q on so it won't let me join -security, and you and I are already in the target so.. :)
<teward> and confirmed with a test client
<teward> :)
<teward> mdeslaur: thanks
<tyhicks> chrisccoulson: ah, right
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-03-24
<beisner> o/
<beisner> oh, i'm 30 minutes early.
 * beisner goes back to work
<kickinz1> o/
<beisner> o/   hey kick!
<matsubara> o/
<smoser> o/
<rbasak> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Mar 24 16:00:06 2015 UTC.  The chair is rbasak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<rbasak> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<rbasak> everyone look at server guide and look for areas which need updating
<gaughen> 0/
<strikov> 0/
<rbasak> I'm not sure what further action to take here, apart from reminding everyone to do this.
<rbasak> hallyn to talk with dannf about bug 1427406
<ubottu> bug 1427406 in mysql-5.6 (Ubuntu Vivid) "data corruption on arm64" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1427406
<gnuoy> o/
<rbasak> This one has been assigned to me, but I don't really have any action to take unless someone can present a patch.
<zul> hi
<rbasak> If it's MySQL upstream related, then trying ryeng on #debian-mysql on OFTC may be helpful.
<hallyn> dannf: says he can look at it in a few days (i believe)
<hallyn> otherwise i can try to look deeper next week.  but i'm really out o fmy element there
<dannf> hallyn, rbasak - yes, which will likely start with me asking upstream
<rbasak> OK. I'll unassign for now.
<rbasak> hallyn to look at bug 1432715
<ubottu> bug 1432715 in tomcat7 (Ubuntu Vivid) "tomcat7 ftbfs in vivd (test failures)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1432715
<hallyn> it's present in debian as well
<hallyn> the debian bug hopes to post a fix over the weekend
<gnuoy> o/
<hallyn> (of course that was last weekend)
<rbasak> hallyn to update QA Team section assignee to matsubara
<hallyn> done
<rbasak> matsubara to file a bug for libpam-systemd's dependency problem
<jamespage> o/
<jamespage> late as usual - sorry
<matsubara> rbasak, I filed bug 1433190 but that's been invalidated
<ubottu> bug 1433190 in systemd (Ubuntu) "Vivid server smoke tests failing due to unmet dependency in libpam-systemd" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1433190
<matsubara> rbasak, and the smoke tests are not failing anymore with that error
<rbasak> matsubara: OK, it should be safe to leave it then? Thanks.
<matsubara> they are failing for other reasons now which I'll raise in the QA section
<matsubara> yep, I think so
<rbasak> OK
<rbasak> #topic Vivid Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Vivid Development
<rbasak> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VividVervet/ReleaseSchedule
<rbasak> #subtopic Release Bugs
<rbasak> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-v-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<rbasak> Anything in that list that needs discussion?
<rbasak> #subtopic Blueprints
<rbasak> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-v/group/topic-v-server.html
<rbasak> #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-v-server
<rbasak> Any blueprints that need discussion?
<rbasak> caribou is out this week, so we'll skip the Server and Cloud Bugs topic unless anyone else wants to step up?
<rbasak> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
<matsubara> rbasak, some smoke tests are failing due to a UTAH time out
<matsubara> for example http://d-jenkins.ubuntu-ci:8080/job/vivid-server-amd64-smoke-dns-server/113/console
<matsubara> in general the test pass, so I think this is due to failure to reach the archive (scroll up in that console log)
<rbasak> #link https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/vivid-server-amd64-smoke-dns-server/113/console
<matsubara> not sure if there's an action here other than keeping looking at the logs and see if any of those are real failures
<rbasak> matsubara: can you request a retest?
<matsubara> I don't seem to have that permission
<rbasak> It certainly does look like a test environment connectivity issue to me.
<rbasak> matsubara: shall we leave it to you to get a message to the right person to request a retest?
<rbasak> Let's move on for now.
<rbasak> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<matsubara> rbasak, ok
<matsubara> thanks rbasak
<smb> The Utopic+ nested issues on Precise host fix should be on its way into Precise. Beside that any other reports are still ongoing. There were recent updates to nested kvm softlockups (bug 1413540) and some container netdevice cleanup (bug 1403152) bug which we still need to evaluate. The KSM issue (bug 1435363) which was recently reported needs feedback on latest kernel.
<ubottu> bug 1413540 in linux (Ubuntu) "Trusty soft lockup issues with nested KVM" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1413540
<ubottu> bug 1403152 in linux (Ubuntu) "unregister_netdevice: waiting for lo to become free. Usage count" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1403152
<ubottu> bug 1435363 in linux (Ubuntu) "KSM causing performance and instability issues" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1435363
<rbasak> Thanks. Any questions for smb?
<rbasak> Any other discussion on this topic?
<rbasak> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<rbasak> I'm not aware of anything coming up. Does anyone have any events to add?
<rbasak> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<rbasak> Anything else from anyone before we close?
<rbasak> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date and time
<rbasak> The next meeting will be at Tue Mar 31 16:00:00 UTC 2015. matsubara will be chairing.
<rbasak> Thanks all!
<rbasak> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Mar 24 16:16:04 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-03-24-16.00.moin.txt
<matsubara> thanks rbasak
<beisner> thanks, rbasak
<kickinz1> thanks
<hallyn> j/wc
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Vivid
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Mar 24 17:00:14 2015 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<cking> o/
<apw> o/
<henrix> o/
<kamal> o/
<bjf> o/
<ppisati> o/
<smb> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<sforshee> o/
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Vivid Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Vivid Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> Our Vivid kernel has been rebased to v3.19.2 and uploaded, ie
<ogasawara> 3.19.0-10.10.  We are approaching kernel freeze for Vivid.  It is
<ogasawara> ~2 weeks away on Thurs Apr 9.  If you have any patches which need to
<ogasawara> land for 15.04's release, please make sure to submit those asap.
<ogasawara> -----
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VividVervet/ReleaseSchedule
<ogasawara> Thurs Mar 26 - Final Beta (~2 days away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Apr 09 - Kernel Freeze (~2 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Apr 23 - 15.04 Release (~4 weeks away)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's
<jsalisbury> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Utopic/Trusty/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/kamal/arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Utopic/Trusty/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/kamal/arges)
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until today:
<bjf>   *   Lucid - None (no update)
<bjf>   * Precise - Prep
<bjf>   *  Trusty - Prep
<bjf>   *  Utopic - Prep
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf>  
<bjf> Schedule:
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current cycle: 20-Mar through 11-Apr
<bjf> ====================================================================
<bjf>          20-Mar   Last day for kernel commits for this cycle
<bjf> 22-Mar - 28-Mar   Kernel prep week.
<bjf> 29-Mar - 11-Apr   Bug verification; Regression testing; Release
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Review of sforshee upload rights
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review of sforshee upload rights
<apw> sforshee, hi
<sforshee> apw: hello
<apw> could you introduce yourself, perhaps tell us a little about yourself
<kamal> *cough*
<apw> (for the record)
<sforshee> I've been a member of the kernel team for 4 years now
<sforshee> working on various and sundry things, including some packaging of kernels and related packages
<sforshee> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SethForshee/PerPackageUploaderApplication
<sforshee> I'm looking to get PPU rights to the linux-* packages to ease the work I've been doing
<apw> i believe we have most of your sponsors here today, so if anyone wants to comment now is the time
<apw> otherwise i think the majority of the approvers have works with you over the last few months
<kamal> I stand by my sponsorship statment:  Seth is diligent and careful:  all good for linux-* ppu upload rights :-)
<kamal> ..
<ogasawara> I have not specifically sponsored a package of seth's but I've seen the work he's been doing (turning the crank on stable trees, handling linux-firmware, etc.).  He's being doing a great job..consistent, methodical, careful.  I'm +1.
<ogasawara> ..
<kamal> +1 from me
<henrix> +1 from me too!
<arges> From an SRU perspective, sforshee has generally shown attention to detail. The debdiffs I've reviewed have been free of cruft and look good. +1
 * smb would +1 as well despite being no sponsor either
 * apw has worked with him on a number of packages and feel he has the appropriate level of fear and self doubt: +1
<bjf> +1
<cking> +1
 * apw counts ... that appears to be +1 from all present approvers and a slew of additional approvals
<apw> sforshee, welcome to the team
<sforshee> thanks all!
<cking> \o/
<henrix> \o/
<apw> thank you ...
<kamal> \o/
<ogasawara> congrats sforshee!
<arges> good job
<apw> jsalisbury, all yours ...
<jsalisbury> apw, thanks.  and congrats to sforshee
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Mar 24 17:10:33 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-03-24-17.00.moin.txt
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury!
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-03-26
<sil2100> o/
<cyphermox> o/
<jodh> o/
 * stgraber waves
<stgraber> hmm, mumble is crashing for me today... lets try bouncing pulseaudio
<barry> \o
<sil2100> Do we have anyone to lead the meeting?
<bdmurray> sil2100: are you volunteering?
<sil2100> Never did that before but sure, one moment though
<mvo> hi, sorry for being late
<sil2100> Oh, hey ;)
<sil2100> So I guess I won't have to lead it
<mvo> aha, one sec
<mvo> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Mar 26 15:08:11 2015 UTC.  The chair is mvo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<mvo> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<sil2100> o/
<mvo> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity mvo sil2100 robru cyphermox)
<mvo> robru doko sil2100 cyphermox jodh slangasek mvo stgraber infinity barry bdmurray caribou
<sil2100> robru is on holidays
<doko> meh ...
<doko> sorry to be terse ... MIR work, working on component mismatches, fixing ftbfs
<doko> fixing some gccgo issues
<doko> toolchain updates
<doko> (done)
<sil2100> - Landing team work, silo coordination, preparing landing e-mails
<sil2100> - Small improvements to the Issue Tracker scripts
<sil2100> - Writing the milestone report for ww11-ota
<sil2100> - Updating the landing documentation
<sil2100> - Help validating one of the possible OTA-2 candidate regressions
<sil2100> - Sick most of last week, still a bit weakish this week
<sil2100> - Fighting some of the spreadsheet's problems
<sil2100> - Commitlog scripts: * Adding the functionality of multi-image commitlogs * Using the new Archived spreadsheet
<sil2100> - CI Train work: * Some minor new functionality work * Hotfixing broken silo reconfigures * Fighting the redeployment process for the CI Train
<sil2100> - Discussions related to vivid->RTM branching and OTA-3
<sil2100> - Working on a newly reported appmenu-qt5 bug with qtcreator
<sil2100> - Planning for sprints and conferences
<sil2100> - Planning on how to proceed with touch work after vivid freezes - long term plan
<sil2100> (done)
<cyphermox>  * Monday: fighting MAAS and a hardware management console to provision a
<cyphermox>    system in the cert network for testing multipath and other bugs
<cyphermox>  * got briefed on details for the above from leftyfb.
<cyphermox>  * multipath testing / ppc64el debugging.
<cyphermox>  * multipath-tools upload for bug 1431650
<cyphermox>  * other ppc64el and multipath discussions on IRC
<ubottu> bug 1431650 in multipath-tools (Ubuntu) "Multipath devices take long to initialize during initramfs" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1431650
<cyphermox>  * debugging ubiquity/console-setup missing keyboard prompts (bug 1435714)
<cyphermox>  * investigating bug 1434091 (indicator-keyboard shows eng_us and eng_uk for uk)
<cyphermox>  * CI train babysitting for robru.
<ubottu> bug 1435714 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Vivid) "Keyboard layout missing during install setup" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1435714
<ubottu> bug 1434091 in indicator-keyboard (Ubuntu) "mini.iso install of ubuntu desktop selecting only ENG_UK gives me eng_us and eng_uk" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1434091
<cyphermox>  * Fixed casper CD ejection (bug 1432285)
<ubottu> bug 1432285 in casper (Ubuntu) "Vivid live DVD fails to provide means to eject disc" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1432285
<cyphermox>  * meetings about connectivity bugs on the phone
<cyphermox>  * NM bugfixes for phone to silo 30:
<cyphermox>    - IMSI selection (bug 1431471, worked on the patch last week)
<ubottu> bug 1431471 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "NetworkManager uses ofono GPRS contexts for wrong SIM" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1431471
<cyphermox>    - WiFi AP list including old APs (bug 1427205)
<ubottu> bug 1427205 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "indicator shows (dozens of) out of range access points" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1427205
<cyphermox>    - update apport hook to account for NM changes.
<cyphermox> (done)
<sil2100> hah, babysitting ;)
<jodh> * misc:
<jodh>   - Sick for 1 and a bit days.
<jodh> * snappy:
<jodh>   - lp:~jamesodhunt/snappy/privileged-operations
<jodh>     - More review tweaks. Code now landed.
<jodh>   - Investigated options to refuse to update if boot assets side-loaded.
<jodh>   - Wrote Transactional Updates document:
<jodh>    https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/1rv4hPNyOEMhDyj4CRNsACSBAH1tqoEwnT8o8IhEfjKA/edit#
<jodh>   - lp:~jamesodhunt/snappy/bug-1412737
<jodh>     - In syncing branch with trunk, identified problems relating to bind-mounting.
<jodh>       - Currently reworking code + tests after slash-and-burn session.
<jodh> ð
<mvo> slangasek is on vac
<mvo> apt:
<mvo> - testsuite fix
<mvo> click:
<mvo> - some cross build help
<mvo> command-not-found:
<mvo> - updated for vivid
<mvo> misc:
<mvo> - travel booking
<mvo> snappy:
<mvo> - lots of work, preparing making it default
<mvo> - worked on seccomp launcher support, privs dropping, u-d-f integration
<mvo> software-center:
<mvo>   Debug/fix ubuntu-dock pay store install problem
<mvo> (done)
<stgraber> that's got to be the shortest mvo weekly report I've ever seen :)
<stgraber>  - LXC/LXD
<stgraber>    - Released LXD 0.5 on Tuesday
<stgraber>    - Preparing archive upload of LXD 0.5
<stgraber>    - Preparing LXC 1.0.8 for trusty
<stgraber>    - Various bugfixes and feature work on LXC and LXD
<stgraber>    - Code reviews, bug triaging, other admin paperwork
<stgraber>  - Other
<stgraber>    - Various gccgo tests for doko
<stgraber>    - Couple of tweaks to rebuild-request on cdimage to allow cancelling pending/stuck requests
<stgraber>    - LXD presentation at a customer/partner
<mvo> haha, typed it in the last 3min ;)
<stgraber> (done)
<infinity> - Working on vivid Final Beta
<infinity> - eglibc SRU to precise
<infinity> - glibc fixes in vivid
<infinity> - kernel SRU work
<infinity> - general AA/SRU stuff
<infinity> - archiving old releases to old-releases
<infinity> - work with cyphermox on eject/reboot issues in casper
<infinity> (done)
<barry> short week due to PTO
<barry> qa sprint: finished up last week, but there are a few straggling merge proposals to review and test.  participated in the sprint retrospective.
<barry> snappy: meetings.  also, working on blog posting for python snaps
<barry> debuntu: LP: #1430082; LP: #1433324; LP: #1435598; fixed pex bugs, uploaded to new package to debian, syncpackaged to ubuntu.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1430082 in python-cryptography (Ubuntu) "[MIR] python-cryptography, python-cffi, pycparser, enum34" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1430082
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1433324 in wheel (Ubuntu Trusty) "provide whl packages in trusty to enable pyvenv in python3.4" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1433324
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1435598 in python-pex (Ubuntu) "The manpage is messed up" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1435598
<barry> --done--
<bdmurray> tested DayBucketsProposedCount table in staging
<bdmurray> submitted RT to have DayBucketsProposedCount setup in production
<bdmurray> fixed proposed counters code in oopsrepository and daisy
<bdmurray> tested submitting crashes with new versions of oopsrepository / daisy in canonistack (good)
<bdmurray> submitted RT to have oops-repository and daisy updated on staging
<bdmurray> worked with deej regarding e-t-retracer-app-11 (not fixed)
<bdmurray> rewrote cassandra driver strange stacktrace query to be quicker
<bdmurray> research into renaming columns for CQL3
<bdmurray> updated daisy code to save core files in more failure cases
<bdmurray> SRU verification of apport bug LP: #1431058 (apport-noui on Trusty)
<bdmurray> submitted merge proposal for component-mismatches uploader identification
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1431058 in apport (Ubuntu Trusty) "Stable Release Update to provide possiblity of automatically reporting crashes" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1431058
<bdmurray> wrote blog post about apport-noui SRU for trusty
<bdmurray> update SRU wiki page to point at phasing report page
<bdmurray> submitted MP for sru-report to link to phasing report
<bdmurray> uploaded new version of apport that'll log dpkg and apt version information for package install failures
<bdmurray> research into dpkg triggers looping issue
<bdmurray> cleanup of dpkg trigger looping bug reports
<bdmurray> rls-v bug triage
<bdmurray> arranged travel to Austin
<bdmurray> tested and upload a fix for ubuntu-release-upgrader bug  LP: #1413270
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1413270 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Vivid) "Utopic -> Vivid upgrade displays failure warning" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1413270
<bdmurray> out one day due to illness
<bdmurray> â done
<bdmurray> no caribou it seems
<mvo> cool, so everybody had his turn?
<mvo> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<bdmurray> I wanted to talk about some rls-v-tracking bugs
<bdmurray> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-v-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<bdmurray> bug 1356823 is occuring a lot according to errors
<ubottu> bug 1356823 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu) "aptd crashed with AttributeError in _remove_from_connection_no_raise(): 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'Destroy'" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1356823
<mvo> I can look at this one
<bdmurray> okay, thanks
<bdmurray> then bug 1273764 - I think we should pass on it again :-(
<ubottu> bug 1273764 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "Grub ignores options on /etc/default/grub" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1273764
<bdmurray> cyphermox: I'm guessing you have a lot on your list?
<bdmurray> then also bug 934371 - mvo was that a design decision a while ago?
<ubottu> bug 934371 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "Unresolvable problem message does not help users and results in less useful bug reports" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/934371
<mvo> bdmurray: I agree, we should surface more to the user here
<cyphermox> bdmurray: I know about that one
<mvo> bdmurray: its partly a design decision, but I think it would be good to be specific if we can
<bdmurray> mvo: Do you think its too late in the cycle? If not I'll start working on it.
<bdmurray> cyphermox: Do you think its high enough priority to add to the rls-v-tracking list?
<mvo> bdmurray: I think its ok, I hope its realtively small
<mvo> bdmurray: we need to be a bit careful about i18n
<mvo> (i.e. avoid breaking strings or adding strings)
<mvo> that would be my only concern :)
<bdmurray> mvo: ah, okay
<cyphermox> bdmurray: yeah, I guess
<bdmurray> okay, I think that its for today from me
<mvo> thanks bdmurray!
<mvo> its important that this gets  attention
<mvo> anything else?
<mvo> 3
<mvo> 2
<mvo> 1
<mvo> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Mar 26 15:27:25 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-03-26-15.08.moin.txt
<mvo> thanks everyone
<mvo> and sorry again for being late
<barry> thanks!
<jodh> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-03-28
<JHOSMAN> mhall119: ping!
<JHOSMAN> mhall119:  Michell Hi, I'm writing from Bogota Colombia, I wonder if you get my mail regarding an issue of sponsorships for 2015 Flisol BogotÃ¡.
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-03-28
<tyhicks> hello
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Mar 28 16:34:37 2016 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<jdstrand> hey
<jdstrand> I'm working on snappy stuff this week. specifically, I just uploaded it for a devpts newinstance, I've got a branch of fixes from sarnold's review and working on argument filtering today
<jdstrand> I will continue to help with landing the caps -> interfaces transition
<jdstrand> and snappy on classic policy
<jdstrand> I think that's it from me
<jdstrand> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm in the happy place this week
<sbeattie> After being off a week, I'm currently shoveling email by the truckload into a garbage bin
<sbeattie> I need to see where the apparmor stacking stuff is at
<sbeattie> I have some apparmor patches to review and other bits to work on there as well
<sbeattie> I have a couple of kernel signoff tasks waiting for me.
 * jdstrand notes that 'it' in the first sentence of mine was the launcher
<sbeattie> I also plan on doing more pie work in preparation for 16.10 opening.
<sbeattie> That's pretty much it for me
<sbeattie> tyhicks: over to you
<tyhicks> I'm on community this week
<tyhicks> I'm currently wrapping up the AppArmor testplan for the 2.10.95 upload to xenial
<tyhicks> it has been a painful process
<tyhicks> I'd eventually like for us to automatically run most of those tests so that we're not seeing a bunch of test breakage right before an upload
<tyhicks> after apparmor is uploaded, I need to catch up on email
<tyhicks> I have ignored it for too long
<tyhicks> then I need to do ecryptfs maintenance stuff (a couple bug fixes, patch reviews, mailing list replies)
<sbeattie> tyhicks: anything we can help with on the testing front?
<tyhicks> sbeattie: I think I'm a couple hours away from wrapping it up
<sarnold> jenkaas may be useful..
<tyhicks> if I get through all of that, I want to start pitching in with review work (MIRs, MP reviews, etc.)
<tyhicks> sarnold: speaking of MIRs, you're up :)
<sarnold> i'm on bug triage this week; I'm going to finish the fwupd mir today (and this time I mean it -- new approach, strace / exectrace the thing and try to see if the firmware.xml.gz is gpg checked or not rather than continuing via source inspection); I'll start golang-websocket-dev MIR but since I also have sprint travel prep, short week, may not finish it
<tyhicks> oh... short week for me, too (off friday)
<sarnold> I think that's it for me, tyhicks back to you?
<tyhicks> thanks
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gtkwave.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libinfinity.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gcc-h8300-hms.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/batmand.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/fso-frameworkd.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> jdstrand, sbeattie, sarnold: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Mar 28 16:48:30 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-03-28-16.34.moin.txt
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks!
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks!
<jdstrand> thanks tyhicks :)
 * mwhudson looks around for a dmb meeting
<cyphermox> mwhudson: we're figuring out if, considering it's Easter Monday for some people, we have quorum.
<mwhudson> cyphermox: yeah, i figured that was likely to be a problem
<stgraber> I'm around
<stgraber> current state is that cyphermox is around, bdmurray is around, I'm around and micahg is kinda around (had to step away for a few minutes)
<stgraber> so if we all manage to be around at the same time, that's quorum
<cyphermox> well, I'm not going anywhere, building ubiquity again while I prepare some other stuffs
<mwhudson> i am minding a 3yo but i have an ipad so,,,
<stgraber> I need to step away for about 10min unfortunately but I'll be back after that. Doesn't look like Eric Desrochers (slashd) is around, so looks like it will just be mwhudson
<stgraber> I'm back but haven't heard back from the other DMB members... so I guess we're still waiting for micahg to get back
<micahg> still on the phone
<micahg> here now
 * mwhudson is still here but would like to head off if the meeting is not actually going to happen
<stgraber> still here
<stgraber> so we need bdmurray and cyphermox
<cyphermox> I'm here, still annoyed at ubiquity
<bdmurray> Here
<stgraber> cool, who's chairing?
<stgraber> (I'm on a call, multi-tasking, so not ideal for me to do it)
<micahg> same here (multi-tasking)
<cyphermox> I think everybody is going to be multi-tasking
<cyphermox> I'll chair, give me a second
<cyphermox> #startmeeting DMB 2016-03-28
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Mar 28 20:10:15 2016 UTC.  The chair is cyphermox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB 2016-03-28 Meeting | Current topic:
<cyphermox> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB 2016-03-28 Meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<cyphermox> any change?
<cyphermox> #voters cyphermox stgraber bdmurray micahg
<meetingology> Current voters: bdmurray cyphermox micahg stgraber
<cyphermox> moving on...
<cyphermox> #topic Ubuntu Contributing Developer applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB 2016-03-28 Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Contributing Developer applications
<cyphermox> looks like we don't have slashd around here today; skipping to the next point on agenda
<cyphermox> #topic Ubuntu Core Developer applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB 2016-03-28 Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Core Developer applications
<cyphermox> #subtopic Michael Hudson-Doyle's application (mwhudson) for core-dev
 * mwhudson o/
<cyphermox> mwhudson: please introduce yourself
<mwhudson> hi, i'm a long time canonical employee who has been moving more and into ubuntu dev over the years
<mwhudson> i've been de facto maintaining go for the last 6 or 7 months
<mwhudson> i'm going to be working on using go shared libraries in the next cycle, which will require touching every package that we want to build into a shared library
<mwhudson> which is why i'm applying for core dev rather than ppu, even though i don't have heaps of uploads on varied things yet
<mwhudson> .. is that enough? :)
<mwhudson> oh yes, i've also applied to maintain go in debian
<mwhudson> and have developed a decent relationship with the existing golang maintainers
<cyphermox> any DMB members have questions for mwhudson?
<cyphermox> stgraber: bdmurray: micahg: ?
<cyphermox> mwhudson: how does working on golang qualify you for dealing with all packages in the ubuntu archive?
<mwhudson> cyphermox: well, it doesn't, i guess
<bdmurray> mwhudson: You seem to be in favor of having all uploads reviewed, would you be looking for people to review your uploads?
<mwhudson> cyphermox: surely not all core devs work on all packages?
<cyphermox> mwhudson: well, really it's a thinly veiled deeper question ;)
<mwhudson> cyphermox: i think my record in other projects should indicate that you don't need to worry about going crazy and doing things un-supervised
<mwhudson> bdmurray: for less trivial things, yes
<doko> cyphermox, ohh, he's touching gccgo as well ;p
<cyphermox> doko: you didn't write a testimonial for mwhudson on his wiki page; are you here to cheer for him? :)
<mwhudson> bdmurray: there's a difference between asking for advice/review and asking for sponsorship
<bdmurray> doko: You've sponsored some packages for him, do you have an opinion?
<mwhudson> bdmurray: in my experience on other projects too
<doko> sorry, otp
<mwhudson> bdmurray: e.g. getting commit rights to go upstream smoothed things, even though getting stuff reviewed there is easier than getting sponsorship in ubuntu ime
<mwhudson> that said, if you want to see more general ubuntu dev from me before granting core dev, i won't be offended!
<micahg> stgraber sponsored an upload as well :)
<cyphermox> so did I
<stgraber> haha, yeah, tiny packaging fix :)
<mwhudson> my attempts at getting advocates on my application were not very successful :/
<cyphermox> mwhudson: it's not that there's anything wrong with the application per se, every one is different. we're just trying to see if you understand the impact of what you're done so far, and limitations
<cyphermox> you have one testimonial from slangasek already, and doko was here too to vouch for you; that's good
<cyphermox> (I'm not saying more to not influence the decision of the other DMB members. FWIW, I'm ready to vote)
<mwhudson> cyphermox: what do you mean by limitations?
<cyphermox> mwhudson: when it's time to ask for review, etc.
<mwhudson> ah ok
<mwhudson> i think by nature i err on the side of caution there
<mwhudson> possibly excessively so :-)
<micahg> mwhudson: are you familiar with the release cycle and which type of uploads are appropriate when?
<mwhudson> micahg: yes, more or less
<mwhudson> as in we are in final freeze now, so all changes to things that are seeded require release team approval, and past beta you need a ffe from a release team for new features
<mwhudson> for better or worse i seem to interact with ~ubuntu-release people quite a lot :-)
<micahg> do you know where you can find the milestone dates with all the relevant freezes and links to their respective documentation?
<mwhudson> on the wiki? i always have to google to find the page though :)
<mwhudson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/ReleaseSchedule
<mwhudson> the stuff i work on tends not to be very user-facing, so i don't know much about the ui freeze/translation stuff
<micahg> yeah, googling is fine :)
<micahg> but if you notice, feature freeze actually kicks in about a week before the first beta so things can be stabilized
<mwhudson> ah yes
<stgraber> micahg: when we are in beta freeze or other similar milestone where we're about to put out images, do you know how to check whether a package you're about to upload is affected (and so know when to refrain from uploading)?
<mwhudson> i am subscribed (and actually read :-p) to ubuntu-devel-announce
<mwhudson> stgraber: assuming that was for me, i use seeded-in-ubuntu
<micahg> that was likely an mtcf
 * micahg made an acronym :)
<stgraber> yeah, I sure hope micahg know about it :)
<mwhudson> micahg: m tab completion fail?
<micahg> multi-tasking tab complete failure
<mwhudson> ah
<micahg> or should that be mttcf
<stgraber> mwhudson: so next cycle while the cdimage team is preparing beta-1, are you fine to upload vlc to the archive?
<mwhudson> stgraber: i admit don't entirely understand what seeded-in-ubuntu is telling me here (it's only seeded in the daily images, so maybe it's ok?) so i would certainly ask someone before uploading
<stgraber> mwhudson: daily and daily-live specifically mean that it's on an image
<stgraber> though I admit my tricky question kinda failed here because mate is now seeding it :)
<stgraber> mwhudson: care to take a guess at the same for mythtv? :)
<mwhudson> let me guess this is going to depend if mythbuntu is official in some sense
<stgraber> haha, not official, but close
<mwhudson> i don't *think* mythbuntu is handled by the cdimage team, but i don't know
<stgraber> mythbuntu is an official flavour, everything seeded-in-ubuntu tells you is usually right
<stgraber> however mythbuntu is an LTS-only flavour
<mwhudson> so again, i'd be asking
<stgraber> so they do no put out images in non-LTS cycles which means that those packages aren't actually frozen
<stgraber> mwhudson: have you ever done a package merge? do you know where to get the list of pending merges?
<mwhudson> ah so next cycle it would be ok to upload something mythubuntu-only during freeze, but it would not have been this cycle
<mwhudson> stgraber: i have merged golang several times
<stgraber> mwhudson: correct
<mwhudson> stgraber: merges.ubuntu.com
<mwhudson> wait, that's not the list of pending merges i guess
<stgraber> mwhudson: cool, are you going to help merging more packages next cycle?
<mwhudson> yes
<stgraber> it is, the links to the index files can be found in the header
<stgraber> cool
<stgraber> mwhudson: how about library transitions? can you tell us what's involved with those?
<mwhudson> i also have a medium term plan to get rid of the delta for the golang packaging entirely ...
<mwhudson> stgraber: as in, new SONAMEs?
<stgraber> mwhudson: right
<mwhudson> i only know the outlines, that you upload a new lib source package that creates eg libfoo4, then upload (or rebuild) all its deps until nothing reverse-depends on the now nbs libfoo3 package and it can be removed from the archive
<mwhudson> i've only watched from the sidelines though, never really been involved
<mwhudson> (something that will obviously change a bit with go shared libraries)
<stgraber> do you know of the tool we use to track those?
<mwhudson> no
<mwhudson> i know britney/proposed-migration is involved somewhat, but i don't think you mean that?
<stgraber> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/
<stgraber> no, ben ^ lets you track the needed rebuilds
<stgraber> there may be circular dependencies and other complications which require several round of uploads
 * mwhudson bookmarks
<mwhudson> not a very interesting point in the cycle to be looking at that page i guess :-)
<stgraber> have you ever done SRUs?
<mwhudson> yes
<mwhudson> mostly for gccgo i think
<mwhudson> (so i didn't do the actual packaging, doko did, but i made patches and filed the bugs and did the verification)
<stgraber> ok, can you describe the process to me, from upload to the archive to it landing on someone's system?
<mwhudson> the upload goes to proposed, the bug gets tagged verification-needed, then once that's changed to verifcation-done and 7 days have passed and britney is happy, it migrates to -updates
<mwhudson> and as updates is enabled by default, everyone should get it next time they update
<stgraber> just missed two tiny details :)
<stgraber> 1) the upload is held in the queue for review by the SRU team
<stgraber> 2) not everyone gets updates at the same time, we phase them
<stgraber> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/phased-updates.html
<mwhudson> ah yes, 1) was totally opaque to me for the longest time
<stgraber> do you know where to look at the current queues?
<mwhudson> i presume for more user facing things, some staring at errors.ubuntu.com is involved
<mwhudson> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/xenial/+queue
<stgraber> cool
<stgraber> are you familiar with backports and can you explain how they different from SRUs?
<mwhudson> i am loosely familiar, i know the requirements are less stringent about what can get in there, but i don't actually know what the requirements are
<stgraber> ok, requirements are typically that they must be changed uploads from the source release they come from (backportpackage does that for you) and that they can't break their reverse dependencies
<mwhudson> the key difference from the user's pov is that you only get them if you ask for them, they don't happen to unsuspecting victims
<stgraber> cool
<stgraber> do you know how packages end up being pulled into main and onto installation media and images?
<mwhudson> the latter is to do with seeds and germinate?
 * mwhudson spots the pun, very very late 
<stgraber> :)
<stgraber> yeah, so does the former
<mwhudson> but main is closed under build-depends as well as depends
<stgraber> do you know where to find the list of packages which should be promoted or demoted by haven't been yet?
<mwhudson> or at least was, or is right now or something
<mwhudson> (i know this is changing)
<mwhudson> um, i know component-mismatches emails get sent to ubuntu-devel all the time
<stgraber> what's changing is whether packages in main can build-depend on packages which aren't (or aren't yet) in main
<stgraber> cool, yeah, that's component-mismatches there is also a more comprehensive online report of it with fancy svg and stuff
<mwhudson> so yeah, a bit of guessing gets me to http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.html
<stgraber> yep, that one and its matching one for the proposed pocket
<stgraber> what's needed for a package currently in universe to be moved to main, outside of a friendly archive admin to actually process the move?
<mwhudson> a MIR and the security team review that involves
<stgraber> ok
<stgraber> so we're more than out of time and I think I'm out of questions to ask, anything else the other members may want to ask?
<bdmurray> and a package subscriber
<mwhudson> oh yes
<bdmurray> not me
<mwhudson> i am that package subscriber for at least one package :)
<stgraber> yeah, that's one of the tick box in the MIR process, I think it may even ask for a team rather than individual subscriber
<cyphermox> #vote mwhudson to be granted core-dev
<meetingology> Please vote on: mwhudson to be granted core-dev
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<stgraber> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
<bdmurray> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdmurray
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<cyphermox> micahg: ?
<micahg> =1
<micahg> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg
<stgraber> mwhudson: congratulations!
<mwhudson> woo thanks everyone
<stgraber> cyphermox: close the vote and wrap up the meeting?
<cyphermox> yep
<cyphermox> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: mwhudson to be granted core-dev
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<cyphermox> congrats mwhudson
<cyphermox> we're way over time, I think it's time we wrap up this meeting, indeed
<cyphermox> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB 2016-03-28 Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<cyphermox> any other things?
<stgraber> nope, hopefully we'll have a new DMB soon :)
<cyphermox> yeah, we need to finish restaffing.
<cyphermox> alright, that's all folks
<cyphermox> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Mar 28 21:26:50 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-03-28-20.10.moin.txt
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-03-29
<jgrimm> o/
<kickinz1> o/
<teward> o/
<cpaelzer> o/
<jgrimm> hi folks, anyone else around
<jgrimm> i'm going to chair today
<jgrimm> hmmm... may be light turnout
<matsubara> o/
<jgrimm> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Mar 29 16:02:42 2016 UTC.  The chair is jgrimm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<jgrimm> hi all, crazy busy last week for beta2. thanks for all the hard work
<jgrimm> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<jgrimm> jgrimm to update/clean up blueprint
<jgrimm> Done. Updated it this morning
<jgrimm> and updated by teward. thanks!
<teward> updated by me due to things I have to do heh :P
<teward> you're welcome.
<jgrimm> caribou to investigate if kickin's clamav merge should land
<jgrimm> caribou around?
<caribou> jgrimm: yep
<caribou> jgrimm: Debian have put out a new 0.99.1
<caribou> I feel like we might just want to wait for the next merge window
<jgrimm> caribou, yes. i agree
<caribou> the only major thing is LLVM3.6
<jgrimm> too late and we need to move to bugs
<caribou> jgrimm: agree
<jgrimm> thanks caribou
<caribou> np
<jgrimm> #topic Xenial Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Xenial Development
<jgrimm> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/ReleaseSchedule
<jgrimm> Final Beta is out.  Bug hunting mode now for most part
<caribou> don't need to hunt for them, they seem to come at me rather easily :)
<jgrimm> a few things hanging stuck in proposed atm..
<jgrimm> squid3 -> rharper is looking at it
<cpaelzer> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/xenial/+queue?queue_state=1
<cpaelzer> also hanging in case one looks for his uploadas
<jgrimm> :)
<jgrimm> and vsftpd been stuck there for >40 days and needs someone to look at it yet
<jgrimm> #link http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html
<jgrimm> #action jgrimm find owner for vsftpd test failures
<meetingology> ACTION: jgrimm find owner for vsftpd test failures
<jgrimm> cpaelzer, how is dpdk testing going?
 * jgrimm knows the answer, but giving cpaelzer a chance to share
<jgrimm> cpaelzer?
<caribou> jgrimm: I'll do a pass at vsftpd test failure & try to help
<jgrimm> caribou, you rock!
<jgrimm> thanks
<cpaelzer> jgrimm: tests good
<cpaelzer> jgrimm: finally a running openvswitch-dpdk
<cpaelzer> jgrimm: I'm convinced to get something reasly usable over this week into my test automation
<cpaelzer> jgrimm: already prepared for performance comparisons of ovs vs ovs-dpdk one day
<jgrimm> cpaelzer, very nice.  Have you given thought to documentation? ServerGuide?
<cpaelzer> jgrimm: thought yes, time not yet
<jgrimm> :) no worries. just wanted to remind.
<cpaelzer> jgrimm: but I wanted to create a how-to-use-dpdk anyway for a blog post - can as well go to server doc
<jgrimm> excellent. tx!
<cpaelzer> jgrimm: what was the deadline on the server guide contributions?
<jgrimm> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2016-March/007195.html
<jgrimm> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/UbuntuServerGuide
<cpaelzer> yeah I saw the mail thread, I'll just give it a try - thanks
<jgrimm> cpaelzer, yeah, i don't recall the timeline, i need to look that up too.
<jgrimm> #action jgrimm understand timeline/process around serverguide
<meetingology> ACTION: jgrimm understand timeline/process around serverguide
<cpaelzer> does that apply ? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationStringFreeze
<cpaelzer> that would be in the past (17th March)
<jgrimm> cpaelzer, not sure
<cpaelzer> well you will calrify via your action item
<jgrimm> heh. of course
<jgrimm> more xenial topics? anything to share?
<teward> nginx 1.9.13 released today upstream, i'm going to hunt getting that into Xenial, but i won't be able to start on that until April 1 (hence why it's in that section of the work items on the blueprint); it'll need an FFe, but I'll work with the Release team on that.
<caribou> jgrimm: you might want to ping pmatulis over this
<caribou> this = server guide
<jgrimm> caribou, ack
<teward> jgrimm: just giving the note on that item for nginx, it's on my list of things :)
<teward> hopefully it gets reviewed before FinalFreeze, though the 1.10.x item is going to be... more tricky...
<jgrimm> teward,  indeed, I was going to ask you what sort of reality would be around 1.10
<jgrimm> is there a date in mind for that being released?
<teward> jgrimm: good question, i'm working with both Release and Security on multiple issues surrounding nginx in Xenial right now
<teward> jgrimm: when nginx tells me a firm date, I'll be able to give you a clear answer.
<jgrimm> teward, ack. thanks for the update
<teward> Last time I checked right before Easter, there was no firm date set, but predicted time is a couple days before, or after, we release
<jgrimm> ok, i won't hold out much hope for it then
<teward> hence looping Release and Security in together, given that post-release if it ends up SRU'd, it'd be important enough for Security to include an update possibly.  I'll coordinate with sarnold and the rest of the Security team when that's closer.
<jgrimm> teward, excellent. tx
<teward> jgrimm: we had touched base with the TB initially on this, before the SRU policy changes
<jgrimm> k
<teward> and it had been considered post-release SRU of 1.10.x in, or right before we release include 1.10.x depending on nginx release date
<jgrimm> k
<teward> either way, it'd be available 'somewhere' in Xenial.
<jgrimm> :)
<teward> until i hear otherwise, that's what I assume is going to be the case
<jgrimm> gotcha
<teward> HTTP/2 is sooner on my radar than 1.10.x though, and I'm coordinating with Security Team on that discussion (attn: sarnold)
<jgrimm> that would be great
<teward> I'd love to turn that on before FinalFreeze, but like 1.10.x, it may get in post-release.  rbasak I think was on the list of people in that discussion, but ultimately I'm going to keep coordinating with the SEcurity Team on that (they're the ones that have to remove the "Don't enable HTTP/2" restriction in place now)
<jgrimm> k
<jgrimm> anyone else?
<jgrimm> i know nacc is continuing to plug away at removing php5. probably at least a week of work yet
<jgrimm> moving on
<jgrimm> #subtopic Release Bugs
<jgrimm> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-w-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<jgrimm> anyone have anything to discuss or point out there?
<nacc> jgrimm: ack, < 300 packages left at this point :)
<jgrimm> nacc, \o/
<jgrimm> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<caribou> not much to talk about; trying to enable zfcpdump on s390x
<caribou> & now looking at vsftpd DEP8 tests ;-)
<jgrimm> :) much appreciated!
<jgrimm> moving on
<jgrimm> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
<matsubara> jgrimm, cyphermox is working on the installer bug that was raised last week
<matsubara> jgrimm, bug 1559507
<ubottu> bug 1549529 in console-setup (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1559507 The keyboard is still installed as US-English even if another language is selected during the installation" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1549529
<matsubara> that's all I have to report
<jgrimm> matsubara, thanks!
<jgrimm> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<smb> Nothing to report from kernel.
<jgrimm> thanks smb
<jgrimm> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
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<cyphermox> matsubara: jgrimm: that was fixed last week
<jgrimm> cyphermox, excellent. thanks!
<jgrimm> i don't see any interesting CFP on LWN calendar
<jgrimm> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<jgrimm> Anyone
<matsubara> thanks cyphermox
<jgrimm> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<jgrimm> rharper, since you just popped on. can you update on recap and update on tgt & squid3
<jgrimm> err. recap and update on tgt & squid3
<rharper> sure
<jgrimm> tx
<rharper> I'm not ready to say that AIO is something we're ready to support
<rharper> so, I'll drop the FFE, I have a new debdiff with the new source from debian (allowing us to drop a patch that's already upstream)
<rharper> and not enable AIO (delta from debian)
<rharper> I'll update the BZ today and then search for a sponser (it'll be a really small diff)
<jgrimm> perfect.
<rharper> on squid3, there was an issue during dist-upgrade of squid in xenial proposed where the postinst scripts would not complete without error
<rharper> the cause is the script (From upstream) checks for /etc/squid3 and then assumes that the /etc/init.d/<service> is named the same (squid3); this is not the case in our package;
<jgrimm> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/squid3/+bug/1473691/comments/18
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1473691 in squid3 (Ubuntu) "[FFe] squid: Update to latest upstream release (3.5)" [Wishlist,Fix committed]
<rharper> adding some logic to find the right service file name in that case, resolves the issue, the upgrade completes and I verified that both squid-deb-proxy and squid-guard, configured in 14.04, continue to work in Xenial
<rharper> I'm not 100% certain about why the init script has the case it does;  it seems like debian should have the same bug then; I've not verified that
<caribou> rharper: last I checked, debian went from squid3 to squid, that might explain it
<rharper> caribou: we did the same
<caribou> oh right
<rharper> I'm guessing that if we did the same dist-upgrade test in debian (from a squid3 to squid) it'll fail the same way; I can confirm
<rharper> in which case, we can push a fix into debian;
<jgrimm> cool.
<rharper> I can regen the debdiff for squid if no one else is going to; would like some other ubuntu-dev eyes to check that it's a sane thing to do
<rharper> one other topic on squid3
<rharper> the maas team raised a concern about the new squid package service now being named squid (/etc/init.d/squid) vs (/etc/init.d/squid3) and wanted an alias to help transition
<rharper> I did a minimal search and asked in #ubuntu-devel, but I've not found any existing/prior cases of including an alias for service names
<rharper> does anyone here know of one, or a policy that would apply
<rharper> rbasak replied to the bug indicating that it's understable to break in the transition to a new LTS;  I tend to agree with that;  maas team which depends upon squid was concerned given the lateness in the cycle;  but without prior example, I worry more about long term support of including the alias
<rharper> if anyone knows more, please comment in the bug
<rharper> jgrimm: ok, I think that covers those two
<jgrimm> rharper, cool. you might try the ml too (small turnout here)
<jgrimm> thank you very much
<rharper> gotcha
<jgrimm> and for the quick sleuthing, really need new squid3 to get real world testing on it and this has hung out for a long time
<jgrimm> ok, anything else?
<caribou> rharper: by alias, do you mean a transitional package ?
<nacc> caribou: an init-script alias (as the service has changed name from squid3 -> squid)
<caribou> nacc: ak gotcha
<jgrimm> thanks
<jgrimm> i think we are done for today
<jgrimm> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<jgrimm> Tuesday 2016-04-05 at 1600 UTC - #ubuntu-meeting  and gaughen will be the next chair
<jgrimm> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Mar 29 16:48:53 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-03-29-16.02.moin.txt
<jgrimm> thanks all!
<kickinz1> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-03-31
<cyphermox> o/
<sil2100> \o
<pitti> o/
 * sil2100 can't get on mumble
<chiluk> o/
 * slangasek waves
<robru> o/
<tdaitx> \o
<infinity> o/ ish
<caribou> \o
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Mar 31 15:05:06 2016 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox pitti tdaitx xnox chiluk)
<slangasek> infinity barry tdaitx robru xnox caribou doko sil2100 slangasek chiluk bdmurray pitti cyphermox
<cyphermox> ouh, last
<infinity> slangasek: Gimme a few minutes, just woke up. :P
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> no barry?
<slangasek> tdaitx: you want to go first?
<tdaitx> * JCK 8
<tdaitx>    - Down to 4 runtime failures (3 locale, 1 ssl, 1 graphical/opacity)
<tdaitx>    - Tested various window managers under Xvfb, dummy Xorg, and Xpra; wmaker so far has the fewest intermittent failures under Xvfb or Xorg (still requires one or two additional runs to get everything to pass)
<tdaitx>    - Setup Xpra to improve interactive tests (automatic sound redirection)
<tdaitx>    - Improving scripts to handle both JCK 7 and JCK 8
<tdaitx> * JCK 7
<tdaitx>    - A bit over 20 failures on runtime (waiting to redeploy the environment with additional fixes and integration with from the JCK 8 scripts)
<tdaitx> * Checked OpenJDK 8 build failure on arm64; tracked down to missing #includes on an earlier changeset
<tdaitx> (done)
<robru> short week due to easter
<robru> - chased down some issues related to the recent dpkg-buildpackage speedups in the train
<robru>   * pre_release_hook conversion for media-hub and trust-store
<robru> - began working on further GLES automation in the train (in progress)
<robru> (done)
<doko> tdaitx, in the past I used twm (or still using it for the packages)
<xnox> hello
<xnox> !skip
<xnox> caribou, go =)
<caribou>  Bugfix :
<caribou>  - opencontrail panic
<caribou>    Invesitage Juniper support
<caribou>  - LP: #1546260 - kexec-tools purgatory failure on PowerPC64
<caribou>    Uploaded test package to PPA
<ubottu> Error: Could not gather data from Launchpad for bug #1546260 (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1546260). The error has been logged
<caribou>  Development work:
<caribou>  - DEP8 tests for makedumpfile
<caribou>    Finalized first pass
<caribou>  - Kernel crash dump enablement on s390
<caribou>    Investigating zfcpdump
<caribou>  - vsftpd DEP8 regression
<caribou>    Pursueing Debian bug #819546
<ubottu> Debian bug 819546 in vsftpd "vsftpd no longer starts with systemd because of listen_ipv6=NO from Bug: #803999" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/819546
<caribou>  Misc:
<caribou>  - clamav setup & debug
<caribou>  â Done
<tdaitx> doko: yes, I used twm, fluxbox, and wmaker... I was getting too many intermitent failures with twm
<xnox> was out last week, plus this is a short week due to pagan holidays.
<xnox> beta-2: testing, test report, shipped by dannf, all good
<xnox> beta-programme: responding to inquiries, kicked off community too
<xnox> responding to bug mail / fixing things: uploaded netcfg, s390-dasd|zfcp, looking into ftbfs regressions
<xnox> upstreamish: send trivial patch for openssh, updated germinate/curtin merge proposals
<xnox> done
<slangasek> infinity: you ready now?
<infinity> * Very short week, due to 4-day weekend:
<infinity>   - Rename powerpc-utils and powerpc-ibm-utils in Debian, merging to Ubuntu soon
<infinity>   - Update librtas and powerpc-utils to new upstream, with some local fixes
<infinity>   - Work on glibc security updates
<infinity>   - New tzdata version updates
<infinity>   - Investigate glib2.0/s390x failures, still ongoing
<infinity>   - Lots and lots of queue reviews and a bit of mentoring to go with
<infinity> (done)
<doko> - openjdk-6 and openjdk-7 removal
<doko> - fixing build failures
<doko> - transitions: qwt,
<doko> - gcc-5 update, updating from the IBM branch
<doko> - various +1 maintenance work
<doko> (done)
<sil2100> - Shorter week due to national holidays
<sil2100> - Landing team work, silo coordination, preparing landing e-mails
<sil2100> - RTM status meetings
<sil2100> - Quick meetings about the joiner buddy program in Canonical
<sil2100> - Turbo enablement
<sil2100>   * Preparing an emergency snapshot for the team to build factory image
<sil2100>   * Re-spinning images with different custom/device tarball combinations
<sil2100>   * (more re-spins coming)
<sil2100> - OTA-10
<sil2100>   * Tracking required landings, coordinating custom tarball releases
<sil2100>   * Spin a new custom tarball for BQ-channel mako with new apps per request
<sil2100> - Touch language packs:
<sil2100>   * Changing exports to Fridays, langpack-o-matic to few hours later
<sil2100>   * Look into why we're missing some languages in touch (missing potemplate stats)
<sil2100>   * Manual spins of translations
<sil2100> - Clean-up in assigned bugs
<sil2100> - Quick preliminary look at the system-image charm
<sil2100> - Documenting click-package staging with the lock mechanism
<sil2100> - Booking flights for sprint
<sil2100> - Seed changes per product team request
<sil2100> - Various work and tweaks on some LT tools (safe-copy and snapshotter)
<sil2100> (done)
<chiluk> slangasek you're up.
<slangasek> yes
<slangasek>  * short week, off last Friday
<slangasek>  * php sponsorships x 300
<slangasek>  * proposed-migration cleanups
<slangasek>  * NEW reviews, FFe processing for 16.04
<slangasek>  * head-scratching over the 14.04 SIGKILL-the-world upgrader bug, bug #1555237
<ubottu> bug 1555237 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "Upgrade from 14.04.4â 16.04 dies midway taking out the session." [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1555237
<slangasek>  * nudging launchpad team about scalingstack builders being out of date, possibly caused a build failure due to a kernel bug
<slangasek>  * nudging people about archive reorg changes
<slangasek> (done)
<chiluk> - Worked a bit on bug 1012629.  Determined the issue to be a bios/efi one at least for me.
<chiluk> - Snappy stuffs.
<chiluk> - Some more Vacation *(i.e. moving).
<chiluk> - done -
<ubottu> bug 1012629 in grub-installer (Ubuntu Precise) "grub-installer ignores "bootdev" setting in preseed file" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1012629
<slangasek> bdmurray:
<bdmurray> backfilled BucketVersionsCount in real cassandra DB
<bdmurray> fixed (combined FirstSeen, LastSeen) BucketMetadata in real cassandra DB
<bdmurray> setup local Errors frontend to point at new cassandra DB
<bdmurray> submitted RT to have mojo spec reviewed
<bdmurray> made modifications to mojo spec based off reviewer feedback
<bdmurray> confirmed rsync access to apport's duplicate db works
<bdmurray> modified component-mismatch MIR bug creator to do more stuff
<bdmurray> opened some MIR bug reports
<bdmurray> sprint travel arrangements
<bdmurray> â done
<pitti> only a 2-day week (plus some extra hacking over holiday)
<pitti> autopkgtgest:
<pitti>  - add testbed package list to artifacts.tar.gz (#1559629)
<pitti>  - fix retries for silos when corresponding Ubuntu release does not have any result for given package (#1544917)
<pitti>  - some post-holiday maintenance, update armhf boxes
<pitti>  - britney: add some more tests
<pitti> ddebs.u.c.:
<pitti>  - analyze ddeb-eating issue from last week, add working --regenerate-all option, refresh indexes for new GPG key/hash algorithm (#1558823)
<pitti>  - add xz index compression, by request from Colin (#1559987)
<pitti>  - prepare for Packages.bz2 disappearing from master Ubuntu archive
<pitti> distro:
<pitti>  - cmake: clean up merge, sponsor (#1534263)
<pitti>  - debug why libpam-systemd is missing in a ppc64el server install, fix seeds (#1561658)
<pitti>  - investigate deadlock with lots of LVMs, some experiments wrt. fixing watershed, create watershed tests; eventually opted for fixing lvm2 (#1560710)
<pitti>  - PostgreSQL: prepare new upstream security/bug fix releases for all supported Ubuntu releases (#1564268)
<pitti> misc:
<pitti>  - help Saviq with getting access to scalingstack instance for debugging unity8 failure
<pitti> (END)
<cyphermox> xenial:
<cyphermox> - finishing network-manager updates for FFE
<cyphermox> - investigating ubiquity crashes (bug LP: #1551285)
<cyphermox> - minor libcxl fixes
<cyphermox> - ubiquity oem-config fixes (network and users) (bug LP: #1508865, bug LP: #1552621)
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 1551285 could not be found
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1508865 in One Hundred Papercuts "oem-config: networking not enabled during user config" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1508865
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1552621 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Can't login to desktop autometically after oem-config is finished on OEM mode" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1552621
<cyphermox> other stuff:
<cyphermox> - I am in upgrade testing hell
<cyphermox> - Secure Boot /efi/boot paths on broken firmware
<cyphermox> - add u-r-u quirk for dbus's setuid helper permissions
<cyphermox> - upgrade testing w/ timetravel (bug LP: #1555237)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1555237 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "Upgrade from 14.04.4â 16.04 dies midway taking out the session." [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1555237
<cyphermox>   - includes setup time for said timetravel w/ meta-release
<cyphermox> - systemtap tracing signals on upgrade
<cyphermox> (done)
<bdmurray> timetravel?
<cyphermox> yeah, some code I stole from cjwatson with minimal changes so that you can pick at the archive's state at a specific date
<slangasek> cyphermox: hmm. the NM from the FFe has not landed yet?
<cyphermox> slangasek: no, it has not
<slangasek> FFes normally expire once we hit final beta
<cyphermox> slangasek: the work is useful anyway, it will be ready for next cycle
<slangasek> ok; is someone (desktop team?) expecting this still for 16.04?
<cyphermox> I don't know, I'm certainly not getting much help
<slangasek> cyphermox: re: upgrade testing, did you get a handle on systemtap for this?
<cyphermox> bdmurray https://github.com/cyphermox/apt-mirror
<cyphermox> slangasek: yes, I have output from a stap script, hold on
<cyphermox> http://paste.ubuntu.com/15568151/
<cyphermox> it does show that systemd-udevd goes on a murder spree
<infinity> Whee.
 * xnox bets that cjwatson's traveler is based on my traveler which is based on tumbleweed's traveler
<slangasek> cyphermox: ah, so it is udev that's doing it
<cyphermox> xnox: quite likely, which is also based on some other thing from some other people
<slangasek> cyphermox: maybe you want to grab pitti in to help with this?
<pitti> udisks2.postinst does this: udevadm trigger --subsystem-match=block --action=change
<pitti> which at least connects updating udisks to some udev activity
<cyphermox> already pinged
<slangasek> ok
<pitti> but this still  looks a bit weird -- why would dbus-deaemon send SIGKILLs too?
<xnox> because dbus activation timedout....
<xnox> (dbus is a mini-init)
<slangasek> alrighty, any other questions over status?
<cjwatson> timetravel> it sure is
<slangasek> and tumbleweed's traveler is based on tumbleweed's traveler is based on tumbleweed's traveler?
<cjwatson> FYI the archive reorg status is that I have a couple of LP branches up for review to add a flag which changes build-dep resolution behaviour, and xnox's germinate branch is probably OK now though I need to take another look after I get the LP stuff reviewed
<slangasek> \o/
<cjwatson> if all goes well it should be possible to roll it out early next week
<cjwatson> I'm guessing that if it's after next week, it's too late for 16.04
<infinity> cjwatson: Yay.  I've been intentionally merging my packages with main/universe build-dep deltas at lower-than-Debian versions, so I can sync when that lands. :)
<cjwatson> and the security team will hate me forever
<slangasek> cjwatson: we still have component-mismatches in the current report that we are NOT "fixing" for 16.04 :)
<slangasek> nodejs is blacklisted from main
<slangasek> because of its known Communist sympathies
 * xnox TRUMP
<xnox> slangasek, he is a Communist right?
<infinity> Not last I checked.
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<xnox> infinity, btw that systemctl bug looks like a libsystemd dbus / kdbus serialisation/deserialisation library bug
<xnox> ....
<infinity> Nifty.
<infinity> Does it appear to have any actual runtime effect, or just hilarious cosmetic effect?
<slangasek> apparently it has the runtime effect of making xnox disappear
<xnox> infinity, pretty sure any uint communication between any *ctl clients and systemd is borked
<infinity> Awesome.
<xnox> but e.g. gdbus client over dbus1 daemon does work correctly
<slangasek> ok, anything else?
<sil2100> uh
<pitti> xnox: do you have some details about that? bug report or so?
<infinity> sil2100: That's how I feel too.
<infinity> pitti: My "bug report" was just an IRC ping consisting of "wtf lol" and:
<infinity> â z13-028
<infinity>     State: running
<infinity>      Jobs: 1197795576 queued
<infinity>    Failed: 1197795576 units
<sil2100> That's how I feel all week
<xnox> pitti, filing one now. will link
<infinity> pitti: Obviously an endian bug, both from the hilariously large representations of "0", and that I see it on both s390 and powerpc.
<pitti> *nod*
<xnox> pitti, https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/2927
<xnox> infinity, but i like that pid1 has the right value, and reports the right thing over system dbus1
<slangasek> alrighty, seems we're at and end
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Mar 31 15:46:13 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-03-31-15.05.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks, all!
<caribou> slangasek: thanks!
<pitti> xnox: confirmed, I'll look
<xnox> pitti, was there a cli dbus tool but shipped by systemd...?
<xnox> something like gdbus, but better (using libsystemd et.al)
<pitti> xnox: busctl, yes
<pitti> xnox: see the issue followup that I just wrote
<pitti> xnox: functionally it's more or less the same, but the command completion really rocks
<xnox> busctl get-property org.freedesktop.systemd1 /org/freedesktop/systemd1 org.freedesktop.systemd1.Manager NJobs
<xnox> works fine
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-04-02
<phillw> Hi, is there a CC member kicking around?
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-03-27
<xnox> rbalint, slangasek, we can take newer openssl 1.0.2[?] it's just we are not doing the whole 1.1.x transition.
<xnox> i will take a look as to what's happening there.
<tyhicks> hello
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Mar 27 16:30:26 2017 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<tyhicks> Jeremy Bicha (jbicha) provided debdiffs for trusty-yakkety for audiofile (LP: #1674005)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1674005 in audiofile (Ubuntu Yakkety) "audiofile: Multiple security issues from March 2017" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1674005
<tyhicks> James Cowgill (jcowgill) provided debdiffs for xenial and yakkety for mbedtls (LP: #1672686)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1672686 in polarssl (Debian) "CVE-2017-2784 - Freeing of memory allocated on stack when validating a public key with a secp224k1 curve" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1672686
<tyhicks> Thank you for your assistance in keeping Ubuntu users secure! :)
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<jdstrand> last week was dominated by store reviews, looking into a snappy regression and working through various snap declarations that exposed various interesting corner cases. I also helped triage several partner and Personal issues. I did get to a few snappy reviews, but more remain
<jdstrand> This is a short week (off Friday) and this week I plan to:
<jdstrand> - store reviews
<jdstrand> - continue reviewing snappy PRs. I suspect this to take most of/if not all of my time
<jdstrand> - if have time, move to k8s interface and picking up remaining bits of seccomp arg filtering
<jdstrand> that's it for me. mdeslaur, you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm on bug triage this week
<mdeslaur> and I have some gstreamer updates I'm about to release
<mdeslaur> I'm also waiting for samba upstream to take a look at the regression in the current security updates
<mdeslaur> and I'll pick something up from the list
<mdeslaur> that's it for me, sbeattie?
<mdeslaur> err, he's out I think
<sarnold> sbeattie's out this week except for wed
<mdeslaur> who's next
<tyhicks> I'm up
<tyhicks> I'm in the happy place though I think I'll need to pick up cve triage this week
<tyhicks> I'm testing an embargoed update right now
<tyhicks> I'm helping out with another
<tyhicks> I'll publish apparmor updates once I get the green light
<tyhicks> and I'm still trying to return to my seccomp work
<tyhicks> oh, I also need to finish configuring the build infrastructure for 12.04 ESM
<tyhicks> sarnold: you're up
<sarnold> I'm in happy place this week, I could also pick up some cve triage; also going to do the shadow update. at this point it's been ignored enough that half of it will be re-discovering what 's done and what sitll remains to be done :/
<sarnold> then back to mirs
<sarnold> that's it for me, is it chrisccoulson? or back to tyhicks?
<tyhicks> Chris is out
<tyhicks> on to ratliff
<ratliff> I'm on community this week. I was planning on backfilling some of the CVE triage as well. We can draw straws for days
<ratliff> I also have a review to request of sarnold
<ratliff> Some internal items to complete
<ratliff> and then back to updates for vivid-based core & touch
<ratliff> back to you tyhicks
<tyhicks> thanks
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/djbdns.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/git-annex.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/flightgear.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/t-coffee.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ntop.html
<sarnold> djbdns ^^^ I never thought I'd see the day..
<mdeslaur> hehe
<tyhicks> I knew you wouldn't be able to resist :)
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<sarnold> 2008 and 2012. apparently I'm five years behind on my news.
<tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sarnold, ratliff: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Mar 27 16:43:11 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-03-27-16.30.moin.txt
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks :)
<mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks
 * genii mops up and cleans the coffeepot
<tyhicks> I wasn't done with the pot of coffee
<genii> :)
 * genii puts another batch on
<cyphermox> o/
<rbasak> o/
<cyphermox> I'm expiring again in 7 days.
<sil2100> o/
<rbasak> cyphermox: I think micahg might have something to say about that :-P
<cyphermox> maybe I should run again, to make things more complicated
<bdmurray> cyphermox: it wouldn't be more complicated because you'd be the only candidate afaik
<micahg> was there a call for nominations
 * sil2100 didn't see any e-mail
<rbasak> To u-d-a IIRC
<bdmurray> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2017/03/14/upcoming-vacant-developer-membership-board-seats-call-for-nominations/
<micahg> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2017-March/001205.html
<micahg> wow, almost 2 weeks
<bdmurray> Before we get to far who will chair?
<micahg> I have a call in 30 min, so probably shouldn't be me
<sil2100> I would prefer to skip, one more chairing and I'll feel like a chair myself
<bdmurray> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Mar 27 19:07:57 2017 UTC.  The chair is bdmurray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<bdmurray> [TOPIC] Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review of previous action items
<bdmurray> rbasak added Rosco2 yes?
<rbasak> Yes done
<bdmurray> I did sent a call for nominations and we'll talk about that as a separate topic
<bdmurray> sil2100 took care of ddstreet yes?
<sil2100> bdmurray: yes, done
<bdmurray> rbasak to create and add slashd to the new SRU-UPLOADERS team (done, pending TB action)
<bdmurray> Is the TB action actioned?
<rbasak> Not that I'm aware
<rbasak> The next TB meeting is tomorrow I hope?
 * rbasak isn't sure of the phase
<bdmurray> okay but you are managing it / them?
<rbasak> Yes. Carry that one over please, and I'll chase as needed.
<bdmurray> just for posterity - rbasak to announce slashd's new SRU-UPLOADERS team membership (done)
<bdmurray> sil2100 to finalize fossfreedom's application vote situation
<bdmurray> what's up with that?
<sil2100> bdmurray: that's more or less done now
<sil2100> I need to just send out the note
<sil2100> I poked infinity and got a final -1 vote from him
<sil2100> This means the application got rejected in the end - I'll send out an announcement to that today
<bdmurray> sil2100: okay
<bdmurray> I don't see any applications dated for today so
<bdmurray> [TOPIC] Expiring DMB members
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Expiring DMB members
<bdmurray> I sent out a call for nominations and received none
<bdmurray> Although sil2100 and micahg mentioned they didn't see the announcement. Is u-d-a the right place to send it?
<micahg> yes
<bdmurray> Not to put you on the spot but how did you miss it?
<sil2100> bdmurray: yes, I found it, got pushed to spam (?) on my gmail for unknown reasons
<micahg> too busy and mailbox full might have meant it got dropped
<rbasak> I wonder if everyone is assuming that someone else will apply. If we send out a second call, might that help?
<micahg> I motion that we extend cyphermox's membership to match infinity's membership expiration date and send out of a call at the beginning of July
<bdmurray> I don't see how things'll get better in July.
<rbasak> Do we need TB approval for that?
<bdmurray> IIRC we had a similar issue during the last election.
<bdmurray> The issue being very few candidates.
<rbasak> But I half agree with bdmurray - rather than postponing, perhaps we could continue to try to find replacements and extend cyphermox's term as needed until replacements are found?
<rbasak> Assuming cyphermox wants to continue that is.
<micahg> rbasak: we usually submit the results of the election to the TB for a final signoff, we could do that for this as well
<cyphermox> rbasak: I have just sent a self-nomination email
<rbasak> cyphermox: thanks!
<micahg> we're approaching the end of the cycle, I think people will be busy
<micahg> July is in the middle before feature freeze which should allow people a little more time to think about it
<cyphermox> I *did* miss the deadline though, so YMMV
<rbasak> micahg: I accept that. My point is that rather than pushing back to July, perhaps we should push back only as far as is necessary.
<micahg> startup in May again
<micahg> ?
<bdmurray> I don't think its gonna help, but we can just place private bets on that.
<micahg> we can try to run a social media campaign leading up to it maybe if someone has time
<micahg> 1-3 part series on life as a DMB member?
<cyphermox> ahah :)
<bdmurray> There are only 86 core devs, so a social media campaign seems like a bit much.
<micahg> MOTUs are allowed to run as well
<bdmurray> Well one of their "latest members" is sil2100 which must have been some time ago.
<bdmurray> Anyway, the proposal is to extend cyphermox's membership to end of May and send out a request for nominations in the beginning of that month?
<cyphermox> we haven't reviewed a MOTU application in quite a while
<micahg> well, it's an extra 50 people
<micahg> yeah, I think people have moved to more siloed rights instead of a broader focus, which is a mixed bag
<micahg> there's very little traffic in the MOTU channel
<micahg> Is there anyone focusing on the non-snap development community anymore?
<bdmurray> rbasak, cyphermox, sil2100: Are you happing with extending cyphermox's membership until the end of May and holding elections then?
<rbasak> No objection.
<cyphermox> bdmurray: no objection
<bdmurray> [ACTION] bdmurray to get cyphermox's membership extended
<meetingology> ACTION: bdmurray to get cyphermox's membership extended
<bdmurray> [TOPIC] Outstanding mailing list requests to assign
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Outstanding mailing list requests to assign
<bdmurray> I think I saw a ping over the weekend
<rbasak> There were a couple I think
<rbasak> "Re-generate the list of my personal packageset"
<rbasak> "one more PPU package for ~mapreri"
<bdmurray> The one from happyaron?
<rbasak> Yep
<rbasak> RaphaÃ«l Pinson asking for core-dev reinstatement
<rbasak> "Please add xfdashboard to xubuntu packageset"
<rbasak> That's Feb 07 - did that ever get done?
<bdmurray> [ACTION] bdmurray to look at ~mapreri's one more package
<meetingology> ACTION: bdmurray to look at ~mapreri's one more package
<bdmurray> rbasak: Can you do the re-gen?
<rbasak> OK
<rbasak> Uh
<rbasak> I'll sort it anyway
<rbasak> I don't think Aron has a personal packageset.
<bdmurray> ACTION: rbasak to sort Aron's request
<bdmurray> ACTION: bdmurray to add RaphaÃ«l Pinson back to core-dev
<bdmurray> [ACTION] rbasak to sort Aron's request
<meetingology> ACTION: rbasak to sort Aron's request
<bdmurray> [ACTION] bdmurray to add RaphaÃ«l Pinson back to core-dev
<meetingology> ACTION: bdmurray to add RaphaÃ«l Pinson back to core-dev
<bdmurray> [ACTION] bdmurray to look into xfdashboard being in xubuntu packageset
<meetingology> ACTION: bdmurray to look into xfdashboard being in xubuntu packageset
<bdmurray> There I think we got them all
<cyphermox> actually, let me take care of xfdashboard, I'm already looking at the packageset code.
<bdmurray> okay
<bdmurray> [TOPIC] Any other business?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Any other business?
<rbasak> Thank you for chairing bdmurray
<cyphermox> I'm happy to chair next.
<bdmurray> cyphermox: noted, thanks
<bdmurray> Okay, I guess that's a wrap.
<bdmurray> Ask your friends to run in May though!
<bdmurray> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Mar 27 19:45:38 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-03-27-19.07.moin.txt
<micahg> thanks bdmurray
<rcj> bdmurray: Was a date for a May mtg determined?
<bdmurray> rcj: No, but it'd follow the usual schedule
<bdmurray> rcj: 5/8 and 5/22
<rcj> bdmurray: Ah, so there's a 2nd April mtg on the 24th then.
<bdmurray> rcj: indeed
<rcj> Excellent
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-03-28
<cpaelzer> o/
<jgrimm> o/
<tinoco> o/
<tinoco> (replacing caribou today)
<rbasak> o/
<powersj> o/
<jgrimm> nacc,  rharper, smoser:  meeting ping
<rharper> o/
<smoser> o/
<nacc> o/
<rbasak> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Mar 28 16:03:04 2017 UTC.  The chair is rbasak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-meeting | Current topic:
<jgrimm> rbasak: gaughen has conflict, will you take?
<jgrimm> thanks
<rbasak> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<rbasak> "rbasak, powersj, cpaelzer to draft mysql triage response page like nginx has"
<rbasak> Still pending
<rbasak> #action rbasak, powersj, cpaelzer to draft mysql triage response page like nginx has (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: rbasak, powersj, cpaelzer to draft mysql triage response page like nginx has (carried over)
<rbasak> "everyone review 17.04 release notes"
<rbasak> No further action I suppose.
<rbasak> jgrimm create a aa-series blueprint
<jgrimm> actually..
<jgrimm> back to release notes... i'd like to see an entry on cloud-init (ds-identify)
<rbasak> Would someone like an action on that?
<jgrimm> and one on ipv6 netboot (and have an entry in the serverguide for setting tht up)
<jgrimm> rbasak, smoser gets the cloud-init release notes action
<gaughen> thank you rbasak!
<rbasak> #action smoser to write a release notes entry on cloud-init (ds-identify)
<meetingology> ACTION: smoser to write a release notes entry on cloud-init (ds-identify)
<jgrimm> nacc, i was going to ask if you'd be able to take on server guide entry/release notes for ipv6 netboot?
<rbasak> How about the ipv6 netboot one?
<smoser> fudge
<nacc> jgrimm: ack
<rbasak> #action nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot
<meetingology> ACTION: nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot
<jgrimm> rbasak, and server guide entry too (separate action)
<rbasak> #action nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot
<meetingology> ACTION: nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot
<cpaelzer> jgrimm: FYI on my last serverguide entry I was notified that there is no real release until next LTS
<rharper> we should write one for v2 yaml support in cloud-init
<rharper> I can do that
<cpaelzer> there might be occasionally, but none to rely upon
<rbasak> rharper: release note or server guide or both?
<cpaelzer> release of updated server guide
<rbasak> #action rharper to write a server guide entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init
<meetingology> ACTION: rharper to write a server guide entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init
<rbasak> #action rharper to write a release notes entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init
<meetingology> ACTION: rharper to write a release notes entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init
<nacc> right, and they are also retooling server guide, aiui
<rbasak> Anything else on this topic?
<rbasak> #topic Development Release
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-meeting | Current topic: Development Release
<rbasak> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: TOPIC
<rbasak> 17:03 <rbasak> jgrimm create a aa-series blueprint
<jgrimm> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-aa-server-core
<jgrimm> done
<rbasak> Great thanks :)
<rbasak> #topic Development Release
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-meeting | Current topic: Development Release
<jgrimm> feel free to populate!!!
<rbasak> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZestyZapus/ReleaseSchedule
<rbasak> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-z-server-core
<jgrimm> critical bug fixes. whee
<rbasak> #info A week and a half to final freeze
<rbasak> Anything to discuss?
<rbasak> #info Nothing further to discuss
<rbasak> #subtopic Active work that may need wider communication
<rbasak> Anything that needs wider communication?
<rbasak> #info Nothing that needs wider communication
<rbasak> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (caribou)
<rbasak> caribou: o/
<tinoco> rbasak: replacing him
<tinoco> #info SRUs from SEG: sssd, ebtables, ceph, nfs-utils, sosreport qemu, libvirt
<tinoco> Being:
<tinoco> sssd (LP: #1566508) Committed/In Progress
<tinoco> ebtables (LP: #1645324) In Progress
<tinoco> ceph (LP: #1636322) In Progress
<tinoco> nfs-utils (LP: #1590799) In Progress
<tinoco> sosreport (LP: #1614052 and LP: #1605243) In Progress
<tinoco> qemu (LP: #1657489) - In Progress
<tinoco> libvirt (LP: #1317491) - Trusty, Committed, verified and waiting.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1566508 in sssd (Ubuntu Trusty) "autofs races with sssd on startup" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1566508
<rbasak> tinoco: o/ thanks!
<tinoco> libvirt (LP: #1602057) - Xenial
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1645324 in ebtables (Ubuntu Trusty) "ebtables: Lock file should be moved from /var/lib/ebtables to /run" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1645324
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1636322 in Ubuntu Cloud Archive mitaka "[SRU] upstart: ceph-all service starts before networks up" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1636322
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1590799 in nfs-utils (Ubuntu Yakkety) "nfs-kernel-server does not start because of dependency failure" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1590799
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1614052 in sosreport (Ubuntu Yakkety) "SOSREPORT need to collect OPAL msglog" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1614052
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1605243 in sosreport (Ubuntu Yakkety) "iscsi initiator related configs and logs are not recorded" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1605243
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1657489 in qemu (Ubuntu Trusty) "qemu-xen: free all the pirqs for msi/msix when driver unload" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1657489
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1317491 in libvirt (Ubuntu Trusty) "virsh blockcommit hangs at 100%" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1317491
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1602057 in Ubuntu Cloud Archive mitaka "(libvirt) KeyError updating resources for some node, guest.uuid is not in BDM list" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1602057
<tinoco> From us
<rbasak> #info SRUs are pending for sssd, ebtables, ceph, nfs-utils, sosreport, qemu and libvirt
<rbasak> Thanks!
<rbasak> Any questions for tinoco?
<jgrimm> looking
<jgrimm> rbasak, all good. thanks tinoco
<tinoco> o/
<rbasak> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
<rbasak> powersj: o/
<powersj> Last week reported server zesty beta ISO results, all good. Got pylint config merged into cloud-init and participated in server team bug day with a few bugs.
<powersj> This week I need to finish some bug day merge requests, looking at rbasak's merge for daily bug triage, and reorganize some of the Jenkins jobs.
<powersj> questions?
<rbasak> #info Last week reported server zesty beta ISO results, all good. Got pylint config merged into cloud-init and participated in server team bug day with a few bugs.
<rbasak> #info This week powersj needs to finish some bug day merge requests, looking at rbasak's merge for daily bug triage, and reorganize some of the Jenkins jobs.
<rbasak> Thanks powersj!
<rbasak> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
<rbasak> Looks like neither smb nor sforshee are here.
<jgrimm> no love
<rbasak> I've pinged them. Let's go back if needed.
<rbasak> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: TOPIC
<rbasak> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<rbasak> Any CfPs?
<rbasak> https://lwn.net/Calendar/Monthly/cfp/
<jgrimm> linuxfest nw? nacc interest?
<jgrimm> your neck of the woods at least
<jgrimm> oh, that's march 1st not april
<jgrimm> nvm. doh
<nacc> jgrimm: yeah it already hapened, iirc
<smb> Sorry I am here now but had nothing to report anyway.
 * jgrimm moves calendar forward
<rbasak> #info No upcoming CfPs were mentioned.
<rbasak> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
<jgrimm> nada
<rbasak> Thanks smb. Any questions for smb?
<smb> Actually one thing, that kernel-team is sprinting next week, so I will likely forget about this meeting again
<rbasak> #info Nothing to report.
<rbasak> Thanks smb!
<rbasak> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<rbasak> Any upcoming events worth mentioning?
<jgrimm> nope
<rharper> I'll be in attendance here: #link https://austin.serverlessconf.io/
<rharper> kirkland asked me to tag along there;  server team going to a serverless conf  =)
<rbasak> Thanks rharper!
<jgrimm> ah, cool
<rbasak> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<rbasak> AOB?
 * nacc is going to have to help IS recreate old changelogs ... :)
<jgrimm> sponsorship volunteer?
<nacc> bdmurray: --^ fyi :)
<rbasak> #info nacc is going to have to help IS recreate old changelogs
<jgrimm> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/postfix/+bug/1595096
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1595096 in postfix (Ubuntu Xenial) "cannot create multi postfix instance by postmulti command" [Medium,In progress]
<rbasak> Perhaps we should mention the bug squashing and sponsorship parties too.
<jgrimm> wrt seeking sponsorship ^^ postfix bug
<jgrimm> rbasak, +1
<rbasak> jgrimm: hopefully we'll be able to sponsor that tomorrow :)
<cpaelzer> Also worth to mention the Ubunut Server Bug Squashing Day
<jgrimm> rbasak, thanks sir
<cpaelzer> it was successful
<cpaelzer> we are to write more to the mail thread we have
<nacc> we will plan on one in another week, iirc
<cpaelzer> and it seems we will make this a regular occasion
<nacc> i blogged about it :)
<rbasak> Sponsorship party announcement: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/postfix/+bug/1595096
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1595096 in postfix (Ubuntu Xenial) "cannot create multi postfix instance by postmulti command" [Medium,In progress]
<rbasak> nacc: link to blog?
<cpaelzer> pls link
<rbasak> Sponsorship party announcement: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2017-March/039714.html
<nacc> https://naccblog.wordpress.com/2017/03/24/usbsd-1-goals-inaugural-ubuntu-server-bug-squashing-day/
<nacc> sorry was finding it
<rbasak> Thanks!
<nacc> it also was on planetubuntu
<rbasak> #info The Ubuntu Server Bug Squashing Day was successful; see https://naccblog.wordpress.com/2017/03/24/usbsd-1-goals-inaugural-ubuntu-server-bug-squashing-day/ for details.
<rbasak> #info We will have a sponsorship party tomorrow; please join if you are a contributor and need something sponsoring, or if you are a sponsor who can help. More details: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2017-March/039714.html
<rbasak> That's everything for AOB I think?
<rbasak> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<rbasak> gaughen: will you be available next week please?
<gaughen> rbasak, yes!
<rbasak> Thank you!
<gaughen> although I'll want a calendar invite
 * gaughen looks at smoser
<rbasak> #info The next meeting will be at Tue 4 Apr 16:00:00 UTC 2017. gaughen will chair.
<rbasak> Thanks all!
<rbasak> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Mar 28 16:23:35 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-03-28-16.03.moin.txt
<rharper> thanks rbasak !
<smoser> gaughen, fwiw, my auto-deleter behavior previously only deleted events created by gaughen
<jgrimm> thanks rbasak
<powersj> rbasak: thanks!
<smoser> but something must have gone awry and it doesn't like the ubuntu-server meeting either .
<jgrimm> gaughen, i'll invite you, i'm just not inviting smosser again
<smoser>  /o\
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-03-30
<sil2100> o/
 * slangasek waves
<bdmurray> o/
<barry> \o
<tdaitx> \o/
<cyphermox> o/
<caribou> \o
<rbalint> \o
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Mar 30 15:03:06 2017 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox tdaitx xnox chiluk mwhudson rbalint)
<slangasek> rbalint xnox cyphermox doko slangasek barry mwhudson bdmurray chiluk infinity tdaitx caribou robru sil2100
<slangasek> rbalint: congrats, you're first
<sil2100> Wow, I'm dead-last
<rbalint> * nama ftbfs turned out to be a different, very old perl bug (https://rt.perl.org/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=77706)
<rbalint>   provided a small patch for nama as workaround which got accepted through delayed/2 #839218
<rbalint> * checked that pywavelets builds on armhf in Debian unlike in zesty
<rbalint> * forwarded Ubuntu patch and fixed an other source building issue in pywavelets in delayed NMU #852303
<rbalint> * prepared patch for unity-greeter to run tests with valgrind to have better crash infos in build logs http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~rbalint/unity-greeter/test-with-valgrind/revision/2193
<rbalint> * prepared patch for ldns ftbfs LP: #1676502
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1676502 in ldns (Ubuntu) "FTBFS in zesty-proposed with OpenSSL 1.0.x" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1676502
<rbalint> * WIP patch for minimizing ubuntu-cpc, by dropping most docs
<rbalint> * added autopkgtests to livecd-rootfs, waiting for merge approval
<rbalint>   https://code.launchpad.net/~rbalint/livecd-rootfs/livecd-rootfs-autopkgtest/+merge/321459
<slangasek> autopkgtests> my hero
<rbalint> mistake, nama is fixed by main taking my patch
<rbalint> pywavelets got accepted
<rbalint> slangasek: thanks! :-)
<rbalint> slangasek: it was badly needed :-)
<rbalint> EOF
<rbalint> :-)
<slangasek> xnox:
<bdmurray> he's ill
<cyphermox> my turn
<cyphermox> - SRU uploads and verification for shim & grub.
<cyphermox> - ubiquity-slideshow update
<cyphermox> - upload fix to zesty and SRUs for hw-detect/multipath-tools (bug LP: #1673350)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1673350 in multipath-tools (Ubuntu Yakkety) "dm-queue-length module is not included in installer/initramfs" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1673350
<cyphermox> - fix /var/run vs. /run for initramfs hook in multipath-tools (bug LP: #1670811)
<cyphermox> - preparing/"release" subiquity image for testing
<cyphermox> - investigating kernel update vs drivers in ubiquity when "Download updates" unchecked (bug LP: #1634246)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1670811 in multipath-tools (Ubuntu Zesty) "Multipath services fails to start on Ubuntu 17.04 on boot and kdump (initramfs)" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1670811
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1634246 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "kernel updating despite unchecked "download and install" choice" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1634246
<cyphermox> - reviewing more grub-installer patches for PReP on RAID (bug LP: #1550448)
<cyphermox> - fixing networking failure after X->Y upgrade b/c network-manager postinst (bug LP: #1676547)
<cyphermox> - investigating broadcom driver causing ubiquity wireless dialog crash (bug LP: #1675127)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1550448 in grub-installer (Ubuntu Trusty) "[PowerVM] Ubuntu 16.04 does not install bootloader on multiple PReP partitions in Software RAID1 configuration" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1550448
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1676547 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "No network connectivity after upgrade from 16.04 to 16.10" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1676547
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1675127 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubiquity crashed with TypeError in __new__(): 'NoneType' object is not iterable" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1675127
<cyphermox> - rework subiquity livecd-roofs changes for merging; prepare debian-cd/ubuntu-cdimage.
<cyphermox> (done)
<slangasek> cyphermox: as /var/run compatibility regressed?
<slangasek> has
<slangasek> doko is off
<cyphermox> slangasek: I think we may not have /var/run in initramfs, so yeah, things regressed to some degree
<slangasek> ah, in initramfs
<cyphermox> yep
<slangasek> yeah, things shouldn't assume it there :-)
<slangasek>  * image minimization
<slangasek>   * working through demotion of tzdata from required to important (coming today)
<slangasek>  * cloud images
<slangasek>  * SRU shepherding
<slangasek>  * helping legal with paperwork for IP lawyers
<slangasek>  * encountered and debugged LP: #1677417
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1677417 in conjure-up (Ubuntu) "/etc/ld.so.conf.d/conjure-up.conf breaks apt on host system" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1677417
<slangasek>  * working on simplestreams of ubuntu-core images for the maas team
<slangasek> (done)
<cyphermox> woah, I didn't bring my coffee?
<barry> ubuntu-image classic snap testing.  we were blocked on snapcraft 2.28 and snapd 2.23 in x & y.  snapcraft has cleared -proposed but snapd 2.23 is still in {x,y}-proposed so we're still blocked; LP: #1673576
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1673576 in Ubuntu Image "PYTHONPATH and PATH are slightly incorrect for the 1.0 snap" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1673576
<infinity> ld.so.conf.d/conjure-up?  Really?
<slangasek> cyphermox: ?
<barry> short week due to vacation
<barry> LP: #1656474; LP: #1633331; LP: #1658844; emacs25 cleared proposed though -O0 on arm64 isn't ideal; reported and interacted w/upstream but no clear alternatives yet
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1656474 in emacs25 (Ubuntu) "FTBFS on arm64: make[4]: *** [../../lisp/cedet/semantic/bovine/c-by.el] Segmentation fault (core dumped)" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1656474
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1633331 in samba (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/pyclean fails with python3" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1633331
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1658844 in python-pip (Ubuntu) "most recent version does not install /usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/pkg_resources/extern and /_vendor" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1658844
<barry> other: landed some upstream python fixes; pycon 2017 planning;
 * genii slides cyphermox a fresh coffee and slinks off again
<barry> --done--
<slangasek> bdmurray:
<cyphermox> slangasek: I think I have a problem, I drank it, put the cup away, so fast that I couldn't find it anymore.
<bdmurray> Why do keep that other person in the rotation? Takes work to remember to forget about them.
<bdmurray> resolved apport FTBFS
<bdmurray> modified ubuntu general hook to collect /proc/cpuinfo (LP: #1673557)
<bdmurray> modified whoopsie to allow ProcCpuinfoMinimal thru (same bug number)
<bdmurray> review of some apport-hook-error bug reports, clean up of dupes
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1673557 in apport (Ubuntu) "/proc/cpuinfo should be collected" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1673557
<bdmurray> reuploaded Y fix for LP: #1623856 after v-failed
<bdmurray> reported upstream gdb bug re it hanging
<bdmurray> discovered and fixed issue with iso tracker not updating bugs
<bdmurray> wrote a bug pattern for LP: #1639374
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1623856 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu) "Scrolled Windows in update-manager are too small to read" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1623856
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1639374 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "grub-pc fails to remove, rendering lubuntu uninstallable on EFI machines" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1639374
<bdmurray> troubleshooting of my upgrade to Yakkety
<bdmurray> reported network issue after upgrade (LP: #1676547)
<bdmurray> DMB meeting and associated work
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1676547 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "No network connectivity after upgrade from 16.04 to 16.10" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1676547
<bdmurray> â done
<chiluk> * Been working on ceph/radosgw performance
<chiluk> * An iscsi/multipath bug that turned into a kernel xfs bug.  Nothing really foundations related from me today.
<chiluk> - done -
<slangasek> barry: do you know if snapd 2.23 is verification-done? we could promote it right now
<chiluk> infinity..
<infinity>  - Fix ruby autopkgtest regression fallout from the net-tools demotion.
<infinity>  - Drive the archive parts of the kernel security CRD.
<infinity>  - Lots and lots of queue and FFe reviews.
<infinity>  - More tool/infra mangling to fix the powerpc removal.
<infinity> (done)
<barry> slangasek: looking
<tdaitx> = JCK
<tdaitx>   * firewall exceptions are finally in place
<tdaitx>   * setup tinc to access lxd containers directly
<tdaitx>   * testing vnc and pulseaudio redirection from containers
<tdaitx>     - latency is so-so (avg 500 ms)
<tdaitx>     - playing around and reducing resolution/colors/quality to improve vnc responsiveness without affecting the stuff under test (readability, right colors, etc)
<tdaitx>     - audio is okay-ish, few tests use/need it so latency does not hurt as bad
<tdaitx> = Other
<tdaitx>   * Reproduced openjdk's (8u121-b13-0ubuntu1.16.04.2) awt bug a couple times, but it is not a realiable reproducer (ie. open eclipse, hope to trigger it)
<tdaitx> (done)
<caribou> Bugfix :
<caribou>   LP #1654600 : unattended-upgrades breaks shutdown when /var is FS
<caribou>   - cyphermox reviewed & ok
<caribou>   - More worried with deg-systemd-helper bug causing grief on upgrade
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1654600 in unattended-upgrades (Ubuntu) "unattended-upgrade-shutdown hangs when /var is a separate filesystem" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1654600
<caribou>   LP: #1342580 : tftp does not start
<caribou>   - SRU uploaded. Needs to verify
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1342580 in tftp-hpa (Debian) "tftpd-hpa fails to start when the NIC is not available at startup time" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1342580
<caribou>  - LP: #1658733 - kdump on multipath is failing
<caribou>    Need to setup test environment
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1658733 in kexec-tools (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu 16.04.2KVM:kdump fails to mount root file system on multipath root device" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1658733
<caribou>  Still need AA magic on releasing tomsfastmath into Main following MIR completion
<caribou>  - LP: #1619239
<caribou>  - Will unblock clamav from zesty-proposed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1619239 in tomsfastmath (Ubuntu) "[MIR] tomsfastmath (runtime dependency of clamav)" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1619239
<caribou>  Sponsored nfs-utils - LP: #1590799 for SRU
<caribou>  Work on script to track SRUs taken care of by STS
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1590799 in nfs-utils (Ubuntu Yakkety) "nfs-kernel-server does not start because of dependency failure" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1590799
<caribou> Meetings
<caribou>  â Done
<bdmurray> caribou: Did you see my comment about checking for other filesystems for unattended-upgrades?
<caribou> bdmurray: yes, I scanned through the source & added /var/lib to the RequiresMountsFor=
<bdmurray> was /boot already in there?
<sil2100> Is robru around?
<caribou> bdmurray: nope
<caribou> bdmurray: think it should also be added ?
<bdmurray> caribou: Well it wouldn't hurt.
<caribou> bdmurray: sure, I'll add it too once I fix my systemd-helper issue
<sil2100> I'll go ahead maybe
<sil2100> - Half-day off on Monday
<sil2100> - Landing team work, ticket release coordination
<sil2100> - Multiple SRU reviews
<sil2100> - Kernel SRU reviews
<sil2100> - DMB meeting
<sil2100> - Discussions regarding the nearest ubuntu-touch security OTA
<sil2100> - Copying s-i images for ubuntu-core
<sil2100> - Preparing a hotfix for the recently enabled dual-overlay-landing functionality
<sil2100> - Sponsoring/helping with some packages from the sponsoring queue
<sil2100> - Working on getting rid of some NBS packages (libubuntu-app-launch2-dev)
<sil2100> - Snooping around systemd being blocked in zesty-proposed because of hanging autopkgtest
<sil2100> (done)
<cyphermox> sil2100: I will fix the nplan autopkgtests, but they're lying in that things don't work. I think it's an issue of too short timeouts given the stack of virtual devices that need to come up
<sil2100> cyphermox: you mean the nplan tests are lying, right? Since besides those we also have systemd tests failing for unknown reasons I guess
<cyphermox> yes
<sil2100> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1672542
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1672542 in systemd (Ubuntu) "systemd 232-18ubuntu1 ADT test failure with linux 4.10.0-13.15" [Undecided,New]
<sil2100> cyphermox: ok, thanks, that would fix part of the issues then
<cyphermox> I wouldn't know about the systemd tests but if you need help don't hesitate
<sil2100> Sure, I only recently started looking, don't know much about the tests yet
<sil2100> But will poke in case of any issues
<sil2100> Will have to try and reproduce this in some safe environment where I can easily revert packages and find out which ones cause all those problems
<bdmurray> Is it AOB time?
<bdmurray> Does anybody know how I could get some upstream to look at my gdb bug?
<tdaitx> bdmurray, whats the bug #?
<bdmurray> https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=21324
<tdaitx> i might be able to help
<ubottu> sourceware.org bug 21324 in threads "gdb hangs when 'thread apply all bt full' is used" [Critical,New]
<slangasek> cyphermox: so should we badtest all of the nplan autopkgtests right now?
<slangasek> any other questions on status?
<cyphermox> slangasek: yeah, probably should
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> that will unblock a few things, thanks :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<bdmurray> Ping your friends about running for the DMB
<rbalint> i think nama could enter ubuntu again
<bdmurray> We had only cyphermox self-nominate :-(
<cyphermox> I have a nplan release almost ready, should fix the tests too
<infinity> I wish I had breakfast.
<cyphermox> we already have a good chunk of the team on the DMB
<slangasek> bdmurray: what if I'm good with cyphermox being on the team again? :)
<sil2100> Who's our current systemd expert? Just so I know who I can also ping besides cyphermox in case of questions
<cyphermox> sil2100: ENOENT
<slangasek> rbalint: are you our current systemd expert?
<rbalint> will file a synt request
<bdmurray> slangasek: infinity's term is almost up too
<sil2100> :<
<rbalint> slangasek: afaik i'm the Tobe one  :-)
<caribou> sil2100: what's your systemd problem, I've been knee-deep into it lately
<slangasek> rbalint: sil2100 has questions for you ;)
<barry> isn't systemd ownership is our hazing ritual?
<infinity> No, that's ubiquity.
<cyphermox> so I'm not done with hazing yet?
<infinity> Nope.
<cyphermox> crap.
<infinity> Don't worry, we can haze in parallel.
<barry> working on either one of those will make you hazy
<cyphermox> what about the one who started and then left?
<sil2100> caribou: there's this autopkgtest hang we're investigating, it has something to do with some of the deps in ubuntu - still looking what caused it
<cyphermox> are we outsourcing the hazing?
<caribou> sil2100: k
<tdaitx> bdmurray, btw, did you report it on the mailing list as well? I didn't find anything so far there
<rbalint> i can start focusing on systemd problems
<sil2100> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1672542 is the bug if anything, but I'll poke you guys once I get to something actually
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1672542 in systemd (Ubuntu) "systemd 232-18ubuntu1 ADT test failure with linux 4.10.0-13.15" [Undecided,New]
<sil2100> (it's actually unrelated to the kernel)
<infinity> Are you sure?
<bdmurray> tdaitx: I didn't know that was needed.
<infinity> Have you tried downgrading to a 4.4 kernel and it magically goes away?
<tdaitx> bdmurray, that's what usually is needed to grab their attention =|
<bdmurray> tdaitx: okay
<infinity> Ahh, Freshest tried that.
<tdaitx> bdmurray, and then ping again after a week if nobody gives it any love
<sil2100> infinity: I didn't try, but from what Seth mentioned he tried various kernel combinations
<sil2100> And it didn't really change anything
<tdaitx> bdmurray, I know a couple folks there, I can ping them directly if you need
<bdmurray> tdaitx: great, thanks
<slangasek> anything else?
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Mar 30 15:40:19 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-03-30-15.03.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks!
<barry> thanks!
<tdaitx> thanks!
<rbalint> thanks!
<caribou> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-03-26
<mdeslaur> \o
<ratliff> startmeeting
<ratliff> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Mar 26 16:31:46 2018 UTC.  The chair is ratliff. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<ratliff> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<ratliff> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<ratliff> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<ratliff> Thanks to Simon Quigley (tsimonq2) for providing an update in xenial for atril (LP: #1735418) and  updates in xenial and artful for plasma-workspace (LP: #1748247)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1735418 in atril (Ubuntu Bionic) "[CVE] Command injection with cbt files" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1735418
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1748247 in plasma-workspace (Ubuntu Bionic) "[CVE] Arbitrary command execution in the removable device notifier" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1748247
<ratliff> Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure.
<ratliff> The Ubuntu Security Team is hiring! See the job posting at
<ratliff> [LINK] https://boards.greenhouse.io/canonical/jobs/1084137#.WqvsZ6jwaUk
<ratliff> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<ratliff> jdstrand: you're up
<jdstrand> hi!
<jdstrand> FYI, the portions of layouts and portals that are for me are now done (there might be some additional PRs here and there, but I think we can now mark the cards as DONE, which I'm in the process of doing). This week I plan to work on:
<jdstrand> - there are a few emergency PRs for 18.04 related to systemd and glvnd breakage
<jdstrand> - steam-support interface
<jdstrand> - lxd partial confinement not working bug
<jdstrand> - org.gnome.Shell.Screencast interface
<jdstrand> - work done the backlog lane as have time
<jdstrand> down*
<jdstrand> I figure after this week I'm going to pivot to snaps and usns
<jdstrand> that's it from me
 * mdeslaur takes the mike
<jdstrand> heh, yes. you're up :)
<mdeslaur> is this thing on?
<mdeslaur> I'm in the happy place this week
<mdeslaur> I just published some more tiff updates
<mdeslaur> and I think I've tracked down the regression in unixodbc
<mdeslaur> I need to test some wayland updates somehow
<mdeslaur> and I'll pick something else off the list
<tsimonq2> ratliff: hey thanks :)
<mdeslaur> that's about it, sbeattie?
<ratliff> sbeattie is on vacation this week
<ratliff> tsimonq2: nice to see you and we thank you! :)
<mdeslaur> ah! who's next
<ratliff> sarnold: you are up
<sarnold> hey tsimonq2 :)
<sarnold> I'm on bug triage this week
<sarnold> I'm working on the volume-key mir, moving down the list..
<sarnold> hrm, I can't recall which one is next on the list
<ratliff> python-nacl
<sarnold> aha! thanks
<sarnold> and I saw john check in some apparmor patches, maybe review new patches if he's got them
<sarnold> and it's a short week, I'm off friday
<sarnold> that's it for me, chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> I've got a thunderbird update to do, and also yet another firefox update
<chrisccoulson> I'll need to spend a small amount of time on 1 embargoed issue
<chrisccoulson> And I've got 1 internal thing to work on
<chrisccoulson> Hopefully I'll get back to working on this apparmor audit work after that
<chrisccoulson> It's a short week for me (I'm off Friday as well)
<chrisccoulson> That's me done
<ratliff> I'm on community this week.
<ratliff> I will mostly focus on internal tasks (including ideally talking to candidates for the Tech Lead job).
<ratliff> leosilva: on to you
<leosilva> I'm on cve-triage this week
<leosilva> I have a zsh to update - zsh that cool bash tool.
<leosilva> and I'll keep hunting pkgs to update
<leosilva> that is all, ratliff it's back to you
<ratliff> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<ratliff> The Ubuntu Security team suggests that contributors look into merging Debian security updates in community-supported packages. If you would like to help Ubuntu but are not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so. See http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/d2u/ for available merges and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details on preparing Ubuntu security updates. If you have any questions, feel
<ratliff> free to ask in #ubuntu-hardened. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<ratliff> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<ratliff> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<ratliff> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sarnold, chrisccoulson, leosilva: Thanks!
<mdeslaur> thanks ratliff!
<ratliff> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Mar 26 16:46:58 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-03-26-16.31.moin.txt
<leosilva> tks ratliff!
<sarnold> thanks ratliff!
<jdstrand> ratliff: thanks!
<sil2100> o/
<slashd> o/
<rbasak> o/
<jbicha> \o
<bdmurray> o/
<sil2100> Who wants to chair today?
<sil2100> I think we have quorum
<micahg> o/
<sil2100> Ok, guess I'll chair in that case ;)
<sil2100> One moment
<sil2100> #startmeeting DMB
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Mar 26 19:07:39 2018 UTC.  The chair is sil2100. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic:
<sil2100> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<sil2100> sil2100 to add tsimonq2 to ubuntu-qt5-dev and send announcements (done) <- as marked, that has been done
<sil2100> Did we have anything else?
<tsimonq2> Cool. ;)
<sil2100> I guess not, let's move on in that case
<sil2100> #topic Ubuntu Core Developer Applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Core Developer Applications
<sil2100> #subtopic slashd
<sil2100> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/slashd/coredev
<sil2100> slashd: o/ Please introduce yourself
<slashd> My name is Eric, I was the first to join the new "SRU Developer" group created last year. This group can only upload in stable release, regardless of component (main, universe, etc). Since then I have sponsored various packages in stable release and worked closely with other experienced Ubuntu developer from different areas. Over the year as a sponsor, I have deal with different scenarios (various packages upload, MIR, ...) which I think
<slashd> would convince you to welcome me in the "Core Developer" group.
<sil2100> Ok, time for questions
<sil2100> slashd: in the meantime a quick question from me: after which stage it is generally inappropriate to upload packages with visible string changes?
<slashd> sil2100, when you talked about stage are you referring to schedule freeze stage ?
<sil2100> Yes
<sil2100> After which 'freeze'
<slashd> sil2100, UserInterfaceFreeze
<slashd> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserInterfaceFreeze
<sil2100> Good
<micahg> slashd: have you worked on any merges from Debian to Ubuntu and/or library transitions?
<slashd> micahg, I haven't done merges/library transitions as of today, but I did other stuffs such as participating in the +1maintainance, patch pilots, and dealt with 2 MIRs
<sil2100> slashd: could you tell me what's the current status of LP: #1700827 ? What fixes did you submit upstream from the ones that do_ko outlined during review?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1700827 in pcp (Ubuntu) "[MIR] pcp package" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1700827
<slashd> sil2100, I did work with upstream (red hat) at changing the dpkg-source format from native(3.0) to quilt(3.0) as it is a requirement to have a patch system, I also worked on a FTBFS situation where the package was missing some dependencies
<sarnold> I'd like to suggest the pcp MIR counts outsized here :) this required a lot more work on slashd's part than usual MIR requestors
<slashd> sil2100, I closely worked with security team and MIR approval team
<sil2100> Yeah, I know it was a very difficult one, just wanted to get an overview on how much work was required from slashd
<rbasak> sarnold: is that an endorsement? :)
<sil2100> slashd: thanks
<sarnold> rbasak: yes! yes it is. :)
<rbasak> slashd: let's say that today you received a customer request to add a package to Bionic in time for 18.04 (I know this isn't your area in Canonical but let's pretend). From an Ubuntu development perspective, which groups of Ubuntu developers will need to review the proposed package and for what?
<slashd> sil2100, there was other stuff I don't remember on top of my head, but yeah it was a long standing MIR
<slashd> rbasak, a package that not exist in the archive ? or that is part of universe for instance /
<slashd> ?
<rbasak> A package that does not exist in the archive.
<slashd> I would tend to contact the archive admin first
<sarnold> sil2100: upstream pcp folks were doing their own debian packaging; it worked, but wasn't up to the usual quality of packaging. slashd put in the time and effort to bring it up to standard and contribute it back upstream
<rbasak> Assume that it is unsuitable for Debian for some reason (so we can focus on the Ubuntu bit)
<slashd> and security as well to ACK it
<slashd> Based on my experience with MIR, I would say that security will probably be one of the first group to evaluate the package and see if this can be ACK or NACK
<sarnold> sil2100: I wanted radical enough changes to pcp to address the fact that much of the code was written to norms 20 years ago, and slashd helped organize conversations with upstream developers to move it along, prioritize the changes, etc.
<jbicha> sarnold: (the pcp work is interesting because his name doesn't show up in the debian/changelog or in the upload log)
<rbasak> slashd: what if the goal for the package is universe and doesn't need to go into main (again, let's pretend :)
<rbasak> Actually, maybe I'm going into too much detail here.
<rbasak> Never mind.
<rbasak> I'll ask this instead: is there anything else special you need for this proposed upload?
<slashd> rbasak, sorry I don't know the answer, but I would say that I would ping someone more experimented and ask guidance if that happen one day
<rbasak> Anything release schedule related you can think of?
<slashd> rbasak, well it needs to be before the Feature freeze
<slashd> is that what you mean
<slashd> ?
<rbasak> Yes :)
<slashd> ok
<rbasak> I think I'll have a question or two more, but while I figure them out, does anyone else have questions?
<jbicha> slashd: I see that most of your uploads are as SRUs. Do you expect you'll be doing more work on the development release of Ubuntu now?
<slashd> jbicha, yeah I did a lot of SRU for my team (being the only uploader), and of course not having the devel upload right, prevent me to help them more, so yeah you can expect me to participate more in the devlopement release as a sponsor, but also as a developer.
<slashd> Note that I'm already doing a lot of gatekeeping job
<jbicha> ok, thanks
<slashd> reviewing bionic debdiff from my colleague before it goes into coredev hands
<slashd> so there is a lot of action I do behind the scene for making thing smoother for everyone
<rbasak> For the record: I've worked with slashd quite a bit.
<rbasak> And in proposing the Ubuntu SRU developers team, one downside was that it still blocks slashd's team on uploading fixes to the development release in advance of an SRU. slashd still currently needs to get sponsorship for that AIUI.
<sil2100> Indeed
<rbasak> My view was that the SRU developers team was worth it by unblocking SRU uploads even if it didn't help directly with development release fixes that sometimes must precede them.
<rbasak> AIUI slashd could do with core dev so that he can do these, and currently no other team will do.
<slashd> SRU developer was and still is really useful. We have a new member since a couple of months now (ddstreet)
<sil2100> Any other questions?
<rbasak> slashd's application lays out his current experience nicely for us I think (thanks) but I thought I'd make this rationale clear as well.
 * rbasak is still thinking, but go ahead and start the vote if everyone else is ready
<sil2100> bdmurray: no questions?
<rbasak> slashd: I guess one more. What's a seed? A very short summary is fine.
<bdmurray> sil2100: no, thanks for checking
<slashd> rbasak, it's a list of package part of the distribution (boot, desktop, , ...)
<slashd> classification for package by topics/areas
<rbasak> slashd: OK. Can you give me an example of a reason an Ubuntu developer might change one?
<sil2100> (I actually just wanted to check if bdmurray is alive)
<slashd> rbasak, demotion of a package from main to universe ?
<rbasak> OK, great. Thanks :)
<rbasak> No more questions from me.
<bdmurray> sil2100: I'm not that old
<sil2100> Is everyone ready to vote?
 * rbasak is ready to vote
<sil2100> micahg, jbicha: ?
<jbicha> yes, let's vote :)
<micahg> ok
<sil2100> #vote Grant slashd Ubuntu Core Developer
<meetingology> Please vote on: Grant slashd Ubuntu Core Developer
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<jbicha> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from jbicha
<micahg> +0 great technically, but no specific experience with some common dev release activities, I wish there was a way to grant rights for SRU style uploads to the dev release
<meetingology> +0 great technically, but no specific experience with some common dev release activities, I wish there was a way to grant rights for SRU style uploads to the dev release received from micahg
<bdmurray> +1 I've concerns similar to micahg but think this would help their workflow and believe slashd will assk for help when he needs it.
<meetingology> +1 I've concerns similar to micahg but think this would help their workflow and believe slashd will assk for help when he needs it. received from bdmurray
<rbasak> I have a personal rule that I prefer not to vote when I endorse a candidate. In this case I think I'd have endorsed slashd after having chatted to him about the details of his application, but I deliberately didn't do that earlier in this meeting so that I could feel happier voting directly. Based on my personal experience working with slashd, I think that he does well in being cautious in areas he
<rbasak> is unfamiliar, finds the right people from whom to get advice, and takes on board appropriate advice. I think he's demonstrated that he knows enough about Ubuntu development process that he knows how to ask the right questions. So even though he doesn't have as much knowledge in some areas as I would like, his general approach gives me the confidence that he'll make a good core dev. This combined
<rbasak> with his need to upload to the development release makes me a narrow +1.
<rbasak> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from rbasak
<jbicha> apologies for the delayâ¦
<sil2100> One moment
<sil2100> +1 (normally since I endorsed I wouldn't vote, but as things are right now Eric's application would still pass even with the absent members voting negative - so, done!)
<meetingology> +1 (normally since I endorsed I wouldn't vote, but as things are right now Eric's application would still pass even with the absent members voting negative - so, done!) received from sil2100
<sil2100> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Grant slashd Ubuntu Core Developer
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion carried
<sil2100> slashd: congratulations!
<slashd> thanks everyone for your vote and comment, I appreciate it
<slashd> and my taking good note of your advice
<sil2100> Who wants to add and announce our new core-developer?
<jbicha> I can take care of that today
<sil2100> jbicha: thanks!
<sil2100> #action jbicha to add slashd to core-dev and announce his successful application
<meetingology> ACTION: jbicha to add slashd to core-dev and announce his successful application
<sil2100> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<sil2100> Anything else?
<sil2100> I guess we're already pass our meeting time
<sil2100> So let's finish
<sil2100> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Mar 26 20:08:34 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-03-26-19.07.moin.txt
<sil2100> Thanks everyone o/
<micahg> thanks sil2100
<slashd> thanks sil2100 bdmurray micahg rbasak jbicha
<jbicha> darkxst hasn't updated the ubuntu-gnome supported seeds yet, so no action from us is needed there yet
<sarnold> slashd: congratulations! :D
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-03-29
<Odd_Bloke> o/
<cyphermox> o/
<rbalint> o/
<cyphermox> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Mar 29 15:01:04 2018 UTC.  The chair is cyphermox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<tribaal> o/
<cyphermox> #topic Lightning rounds
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
<cyphermox> echo $(shuf -e slangasek bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson rcj philroche Odd_Bloke tribaal fginther juliank)
<cyphermox> xnox cyphermox tdaitx Odd_Bloke doko philroche rcj rbalint mwhudson slangasek sil2100 juliank tribaal infinity fginther bdmurray
<cyphermox> this is not rigged.
<xnox> i don't like this sorning =)
<xnox> pass
<tribaal> hehe
<cyphermox> haha
<cyphermox> xnox: you're not ready?
<xnox> no
<cyphermox> cyphermox:
<cyphermox> MIR review: libbluray, pv, socat
<cyphermox> grub SRU for networkcard/timer magic
<cyphermox> still working on 'netplan try'
<cyphermox> released netplan 0.34.1 last thu
<cyphermox> fixing breadcrumbs for ifupdown->netplan
<cyphermox> (done)
<tdaitx> tdaitx:
<tdaitx> * OpenJDK 9 as default JDK
<tdaitx>   - rebuilding newest syncs/fixes from debian
<tdaitx>   - working on autopkgtest failures to migrate java-common
<tdaitx>   - planning for openjdk-10 tests
<tdaitx> (done)
<Odd_Bloke> * Partner visits the last two weeks
<Odd_Bloke> * Mostly debriefing/playing catch-up from partner visits
<Odd_Bloke> * Work on minimal images (for download and for partner clouds)
<Odd_Bloke> * Out tomorrow and the next two weeks
<Odd_Bloke> (done)
<Odd_Bloke> doko:
<Odd_Bloke> (Sorry, got a delivery at an inopportune moment.)
<rcj> rcj:
<rcj> * simplestream generation for minimal cloud-image downloads is now available @ https://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/minimal/daily/streams/v1/
<rcj> * cloud-image build maintenance and code reviews
<rcj> * testing of minimal images and filing bugs
<rcj> (done)
<rbalint> * backported old kernel removal in update-manager to Xenial and Artful
<rbalint> * proposed lintian check to detect sources that can't be fully imported to git https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=894368
<ubottu> Debian bug 894368 in lintian "lintian: Please add check for empty directories in the source package" [Wishlist,Open]
<rbalint> * started fixing packages shipping empty dirs in Ubuntu, feel free to re-use this bug for uploads and backports: LP:#1758963
<rbalint> updated  Bionic WSL test appx
<rbalint>  preparations for rebuilding packages to ship universe packages, too, as position independent executables
<rbalint> * tested unattended-upgrades 1.0ubuntu2 full backport to Xenial and Artful to remove kernels in u-u, too
<rbalint> (done)
<cyphermox> no mwhudson, no slangasek
<cyphermox> no sil either?
<cyphermox> juliank:
<juliank> * uploaded python-apt 1.6.0 RCs
<juliank> * fixed adequate to correctly parse new ldd output, unbreaking python-apt migration
<juliank> * ubuntu-release-upgrader now autoremoves still-suggested packages (bug #1725861)
<ubottu> bug 1725861 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Bionic) "APT::AutoRemove::SuggestsImportant "false" should be the default" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1725861
<juliank> * WIP: snap integration in apport
<juliank> * WIP: snap integration in apt
<juliank> * WIP: travel planning
<juliank> (done)
<cyphermox> tribaal: ?
<tdaitx> from tribaal: make minimal images available to download from <secret location>
<tdaitx> (done)
<cyphermox> ah yay
<xnox> is it me?
<cyphermox> fginther: ?
<fginther> * Enabled a jenkins log analyser for performing basid triage of failed builds (the end result of a coding day activity)
<fginther> * Progress on image testing automation for a partner cloud
<fginther> * Build system vanguard
<fginther> (done)
<fginther> bdmurray:
<bdmurray> special SRU reviews for coreycb
<bdmurray> investigation into / testing of plymouth --ping hang
<bdmurray> resolved issue with apport autopkgtest and uploaded it
<bdmurray> wrote launchpadlib code to find rls-bb-tracking bugs
<bdmurray> imported rls-bb-tracking bugs into our trello board
<bdmurray> submitted PR request with changes to trello bug importer
<bdmurray> investigation into apport-retrace failures with LP: #1758035
<bdmurray> discussion with seb128 re JournalErrors and apport
<bdmurray> fixed JournalErrors apport bug LP: #1738581 better
<bdmurray> tested ubuntu-release-upgrader change for LP: #1725861
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1758035 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu Bionic) "[regression] gnome-shell crashed with SIGTRAP in g_realloc_n() from g_log_structured()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1758035
<bdmurray> review of apport MP regarding snap support
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1738581 in apport (Ubuntu Artful) "apport is leaking environment variables (including passwords!) to public bug reports" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1738581
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1725861 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Bionic) "APT::AutoRemove::SuggestsImportant "false" should be the default" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1725861
<bdmurray> that's it
<cyphermox> xnox:
<xnox> * Uploaded friendly-recovery with fixes for systemd/networkd integration.
<xnox> â¢ Uploaded plymouth with font fixes
<xnox> â¢ Uploaded s390-tools to stop using obsolete UDEV_RULES
<xnox> â¢ Uploaded mercurial with autopkgtest fix up
<xnox> â¢ Uploaded systemd, and fixed it up with a bunch of bugs fixed like  LP: #1758438
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1758438 in systemd (Ubuntu Bionic) "systemd can't be removed from a chroot" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1758438
<xnox> â¢ (LP: #1752722)
<xnox> â¢  (LP: #1728181)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1752722 in systemd (Ubuntu Bionic) "systemd 237 reports incorrect state when drop-in present" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1752722
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1728181 in systemd (Ubuntu Bionic) "systemd-networkd-wait-online waits when devices are unmanaged" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1728181
<xnox> â¢  (LP: #1696970)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1696970 in systemd (Ubuntu Bionic) "softlockup DoS causes systemd-journald.service to abort with SIGABORT" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1696970
<xnox> â¢ Uploaded d-i for new kernel abi
<xnox> â¢ Uploaded s390-sysconfig-writer with fixes for the new s390-tools
<xnox> â¢ Uploaded icu package split
<xnox> â¢ Filing removal bugs (e.g. click)
<xnox> â¢ Talking about technologies and tools with people
<xnox> â¢ Fixed up arubanetworks "fail" thanks to wireshark dumps from superm1
<xnox> â¢ Done
<xnox> glorry details - https://github.com/systemd/systemd/pull/8608/files
<cyphermox> glorry?
 * xnox can't spell
<rbalint> xnox: can't spel :-)
<xnox> cyphermox, basically yeah it lies when responding to EDNS0 queries... with valid EDNS0 responses.... which are wrong
<xnox> i guess it trips up on D0 bit set to zero....
<cyphermox> cool
<cyphermox> #topic http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-aa-incoming-bug-tasks.html
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-aa-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<cyphermox> what do we need to discuss here? should we wait for our fearless leaders?
<bdmurray> That's the wrong release
<cyphermox> oops
<cyphermox> #topic http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<bdmurray> bug 1759732 is new
<ubottu> bug 1759732 in partman-auto-crypto (Ubuntu) "[Lubuntu] Having zram support means that encrypted LVM installs don't work" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1759732
<cyphermox> I thought we had fixed this before last release?
<cyphermox> or some similar issue with encrypted
<cyphermox> oh, nevermind I guess it was crypted swap
<cyphermox> anyway, seems like reshuffling zram appropriately in partman-auto-crypto is the right thing to do
<bdmurray> so worth taking then?
<cyphermox> my opinion is yes, but I shouldn't be signing up the team alone.
<cyphermox> I can certainly fix this, I know about this issue
<bdmurray> Okay, let's take it then.
<bdmurray> bug 1756595 seems like something worth fixing right?
<ubottu> bug 1756595 in apport (Ubuntu) "disk space info inadvertently provides all installed snaps" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1756595
<cyphermox> err
<cyphermox> df is doing what it's supposed to
<cyphermox> do we do anything special for other such mountpoints
<nacc> server team suggested (internally) maybe it should exclude some paths / mountpoints by regex
<bdmurray> I haven't looked to see if it does
<xnox> we had some regexeps in the past, to e.g. exclude things from Unity sidebar, nautilus, etc.
<cyphermox> xnox: sure, but this is df, not some graphical thing
<nacc> well it'd be in apport, no?
<cyphermox> nacc: what do you mean?
<cyphermox> when you look at df, you're supposed to look at the whole line, not just "oh is this 100%"
<nacc> cyphermox: the regex in this case, would be in apport -- it could simply not show the snap paths
<nacc> cyphermox: right, but would the snap paths ever be relevant to apport?
<cyphermox> oh, I see
<cyphermox> for apport, sure, but it might actually be relevant to some bugs
<nacc> right, the above bug was against apport (based upon the bot)
<rbalint> maybe we can skip loop devices in general, too
<cyphermox> ie. "I'm running xyzzy, but it blows up" and it turns out the user has both the deb package and the snap installed?
<nacc> cyphermox: wouldn't `snap list` output be the same?
<nacc> dunno if we grab that
<cyphermox> do we do that?
<nacc> :)
<nacc> bdmurray: --^ ?
<cyphermox> I don't see extra lines in df output in an apport crash report being all that much an issue
<cyphermox> more info, as long as it's not identifying info, is potentially helpful to fix a bug
<nacc> yeah, me  neither
<cyphermox> bdmurray: your opinion as bug master?
<cyphermox> or should we just take the bug and decide later?
<bdmurray> It'd be easy to fix so lets decide later.
<cyphermox> great
<bdmurray> I'm going to target bug 1756446 no discussion necessary.
<ubottu> bug 1756446 in whoopsie (Ubuntu) "Include JournalErrors.txt" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1756446
<cyphermox> +1
<rbalint> how about this line appearing:  /dev/loop23 102144 102144 0 100% /snap/tinder/23 ?
<bdmurray> yes, I think that'd be surprising
<rbalint> nevermind, discuss later
<bdmurray> I think that's it for bugs
<cyphermox> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<cyphermox> anyone?
<bdmurray> There are some holidays approaching right?
<cyphermox> yeah
<cyphermox> I'm off friday, and all of next week
<tdaitx> there's a holiday tomorrow, but I will swap it
<rbalint> i'll be off tomorrow and on Monday, too
<fginther> I'm out Friday and Monday (see the calendar)
 * juliank too
<cyphermox> cool
<cyphermox> well, happy Easter, for those who celebrate it
<cyphermox> that's it
<cyphermox> ?
<cyphermox> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Mar 29 15:34:05 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-03-29-15.01.moin.txt
<cyphermox> thanks everyone!
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-03-25
<rbasak> o/
<sil2100> o/
<rbasak> #startmeeting DMB
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Mar 25 19:01:13 2019 UTC.  The chair is rbasak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB Meeting | Current topic:
<rbasak> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB Meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<rbasak> cyphermox to deal with PPU rights for Rosco2 and Eickmeyer
<rbasak> sil2100 to send out announcements for Rosco2 and Eickmeyer
<rbasak> cyphermox to fix the packageset-report script
<rbasak> tsimonq2 to better document what we expect applicants to know (carried over)
<rbasak> slashd to follow up on the APAC Ubuntu community coverage
<rbasak> Follow up on the ubuntustudio packageset upload permissions for Rosco2
<cyphermox> my PPU actions are done
<rbasak> Thanks!
<sil2100> cyphermox: \o/
<sil2100> Announcements were sent as well
<cyphermox> the packageset-report script is changed, too; though I haven't really had much of a feedback on it
<rbasak> I had a glance and it seemed reasonable
<sil2100> cyphermox: I didn't see the code changes yet, yes, but the packageset changes you sent were ok
<slashd> o/ no update on the APAC, still figure it out stuff with my APAC contact who wants to eventually apply for contrib devel
<cyphermox> then let's consider this done?
<rbasak> tsimonq2: sends his apologies
<rbasak> So the first three are done then.
<rbasak> 4 is to carry over
<rbasak> #action tsimonq2 to better document what we expect applicants to know (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: tsimonq2 to better document what we expect applicants to know (carried over)
<rbasak> 5 is to carry over
<sil2100> o/
<rbasak> #action slashd to follow up on the APAC Ubuntu community coverage
<meetingology> ACTION: slashd to follow up on the APAC Ubuntu community coverage
<rbasak> Who owned 6?
<sil2100> No one, this was more like a whole-team toppic
<sil2100> i.e. us voting on Rosco2's packageset upload permissions
<rbasak> Oh, I see.
<rbasak> Where are we with that?
<sil2100> So, I guess that's something we should discuss now
<sil2100> Do we want to re-start the vote? Did anyone change their minds after our recent discussions and packageset changes?
<rbasak> I have synced with cyphermox and I think we now understand each others position better
<sil2100> I guess that in overall, for clarity, I would propose re-starting the vote for granting Rosco2 PPU rights to the ubuntustudio packageset
<rbasak> I'm quite happy to give Rosco2 upload access to things that affect Ubuntu Studio but not other flavours, as a step towards what I hope would eventually be MOTU.
<sil2100> Since we had far too many votes open last time for that that didn't resolve the issue
<cyphermox> can we please use the right nomenclature though?
<rbasak> However we have some trouble with how that squares with the packageset
<cyphermox> ie. if it's PPU, it's PPU, if it's packageset, it's packageset
<sil2100> cyphermox: understood
<rbasak> Nevertheless I believe that would satisfy the TB requirement.
<cyphermox> mixing an matching makes it really hard to understand
<cyphermox> rbasak: AFAIK right now the only overlap is xfce* packages
<cyphermox> it can be trivially fixed
<sil2100> That's basically what I meant, anyway, do we need Rosco2 around for questions? I assumed we all know what we need to know, just that we need to come to a conclusion
<Rosco2> o/
<sil2100> Rosco2: thanks for being around o/
<rbasak> cyphermox: that would bring us back to approving the packageset including all future changes though, versus approving a specific set or narrow definition.
<cyphermox> sorry, I don't understand what you mean by that
<sil2100> Well, I guess we'd be voting to grant upload rights to the packageset, whatever contents it has now or in the future
<sil2100> Packagesets change, sometimes even quite dynamically, and that's normal
<cyphermox> that's undeed what we should do
<cyphermox> (I think)
<cyphermox> I mean, I can remove the overlap now, I don't think we need to block on whether that's done or not just now
<cyphermox> (we just need to decide)
<rbasak> Sure
<cyphermox> my opinion is: there are other packagesets in the same boat, we shouldn't special case; but I'm not against it
<rbasak> But my point was that I felt that approving only the "narrow" set was appropriate right now.
<cyphermox> ack
<cyphermox> by narrow you mean without xfce?
<sil2100> Should we vote? Since I'm sure Rosco2 is dying from all the suspense ;)
<Eickmeyer> ^so am I.
<cyphermox> sil2100: what is your opinion? xfce in or out?
<cyphermox> slashd: ^
<rbasak> By narrow I mean "stuff seeded by the flavour but not any other flavor" which right now means without xfce, AIUI, but may not be this in the future, so it's not the same thing.
<Rosco2> If it makes a difference - I promise not to touch xfce packages without consulting the xubuntu guys
<cyphermox> rbasak: well, we can only deal with what is currently real, can't address what isn't a problem right now
<sil2100> cyphermox: I don't have a strong opinion, although seeing how big the ubuntustudio packageset will be big anyway, due to the nature of the project
<sil2100> That being said, I would really prefer not to block on that, as cyphermox mentioned
<slashd> cyphermox, I'm mixed feeling, can't really say 'yes' or 'no' on with or without xfce
<rbasak> cyphermox: the point of a packageset approval is to deal with future changes also.
<cyphermox> rbasak: sure, but we can only action the right now
<rbasak> cyphermox: since I'm specifically reluctant about the defined future changes, PPU for a larger set would be more appropriate IMHO.
<rbasak> Say for example PPU to the current contents of the packageset less xfce
<cyphermox> there are two separate decisions: is the ubuntustudio packageset what it should be;  and are we ready to give upload rights for what the packageset should be
<rbasak> If that is implemented technically by packageset approval, then that's fine by me.
<sil2100> I would really not want that
<sil2100> eh, ok, I see we still don't have a solid decision here among the team
<rbasak> No :-(
<sil2100> My rationale for just voting on the 'packageset' upload rights is: question - should Rosco2, as the maintainer of Ubuntu Studio, have upload rights to the ubuntustudio 'packageset'
<cyphermox> I feel it's unfair to special-case ubuntustudio; it should be handled (right now) as all the other packagesets. That is, everything that is on the seeds/image is in the packageset.
<cyphermox> sil2100: +1
<sil2100> My answer is: yes, just like the maintainers of Xubuntu have access to the xubuntu packageset, mate to mate etc.
<rbasak> cyphermox: I'm not special casing ubuntustudioi though
<cyphermox> if we think packagesets aren't what they should; it's a separate action / voting / whatever to address that
<cyphermox> rbasak: no, if you want to do a special PPU you're not, but I feel that's extra work for very little benefit
<sil2100> cyphermox: agreed
<rbasak> cyphermox: sure, so pragmatically let's save the work and give him the packageset ACL.
<sil2100> Regardless of whether the current ubuntustudio packageset is correct or not in our terms, this doesn't change the fact that Ubuntu Studio should not be treated differently from other flavors
<sil2100> If it's not, we need to keep working on fixing it, but it's neither Rosco2's or anyone else's from Ubuntu Studio's fault
<sil2100> *If it's not correct
<cyphermox> rbasak: that was my point yes
<cyphermox> aye
<cyphermox> are we ready to vote on rosco2's application then?
<rbasak> cyphermox: right, but the motion would be different.
<rbasak> I propose that we "give Rosco2 upload rights that are the current set of packages in the ubuntustudio packageset less xfce"
<sil2100> I would not want that
<cyphermox> neither do I
<sil2100> I just want a vote: "give Rosco2 upload rights to the ubuntustudio packageset"
<rbasak> I think your proposal is to "give Rosco2 upload rights equivalent to the existing definition of ubuntustudio that may change in the future according to that definition"
<cyphermox> rbasak: I think we really are in full understanding now; just absolutely disagreeing ;)
<sil2100> rbasak: I want to give him the same upload rights as any other flavor maintainers
<rbasak> OK. Well we can vote if you like.
<rbasak> Though a couple of members have sent apologies
<rbasak> So we might struggle.
<cyphermox> yeah, that's really quite unfortunately
<sil2100> But they have sent their votes
<cyphermox> *unfortunate
<sil2100> Ah, they actually did not, crap
<cyphermox> jbicha did
<sil2100> Anyway, I'd propose starting the vote
<slashd> sil2100, so voting to give same upload rights as any other flavor maintainers as you said ?
<rbasak> Oh I forgot I'm chair
<rbasak> Sorry
<sil2100> slashd: yes, basically giving him upload rigths to the ubuntustudio packageset - so to the current packageset and however it will look in the nearest future
<rbasak> #vote give Rosco2 upload rights to the ubuntustudio packageset - so to the current packageset and however it will look in the nearest future
<meetingology> Please vote on: give Rosco2 upload rights to the ubuntustudio packageset - so to the current packageset and however it will look in the nearest future
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<rbasak> -1 for reasons already stated
<meetingology> -1 for reasons already stated received from rbasak
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<sil2100> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from sil2100
<slashd> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from slashd
<rbasak> That's everyone here I think?
<sil2100> Let's see if tsimonq2 can vote remotely maybe?
<rbasak> The motion cannot then pass right now but it can go to email if absent members can vote offline.
<Rosco2> Thanks all
<Eickmeyer> What was jbicha's vote?
<rbasak> Only one further +1 is required
<Rosco2> Crossing fingers and plowing on :-)
<teward> sil2100: do you need me to ping tsimonq2, who may actually be busy?  (I sent him an unrelated semi-urgent Lubuntu-infrastructure-related ping to no response a few hours ago, so...)
<sil2100> rbasak: I guess let's move on then, tsimonq2 seems to be out of terminal
<teward> (I may be able to ping him in another mechanism)
<sil2100> teward: no need, we'll just do this offline I guess, through e-mail
<teward> mmkay :)
<teward> *returns to lurking*
<cyphermox> oh; jbicha has not mentioned his stance on that vote
<sil2100> Sadly
<sil2100> I also thought he did
<cyphermox> we'll finish this by email then
<rbasak> #action tsimonq2, jbicha and micahg to vote on "give Rosco2 upload rights to the ubuntustudio packageset - so to the current packageset and however it will look in the nearest future"
<meetingology> ACTION: tsimonq2, jbicha and micahg to vote on "give Rosco2 upload rights to the ubuntustudio packageset - so to the current packageset and however it will look in the nearest future"
<rbasak> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: give Rosco2 upload rights to the ubuntustudio packageset - so to the current packageset and however it will look in the nearest future
<meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:1 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<Eickmeyer> :'(
<teward> no it wasn't
<rbasak> (correction: one further +1 required)
<rbasak> #topic (rbasak proxying) Private request
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB Meeting | Current topic: (rbasak proxying) Private request
<rbasak> One moment please, in a private channel. I think this can be resolved quickly.
<rbasak> Done
<rbasak> #topic Package Set/Per Package Uploader Applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB Meeting | Current topic: Package Set/Per Package Uploader Applications
<rbasak> fossfreedom: o/
<rbasak> Please could you introduce your application?
<sil2100> hmmm
<sil2100> I hope we have fossfreedom here
<sil2100> In case not, to his defense: he did already introduce himself many meetings in the past
<cyphermox> yup
<rbasak> Let's move on, and we can come back later if he shows up. Unless we have some people who want to vote in his absence?
<sil2100> rbasak: let's maybe continue, we can get back to this later or postpone to the next meeting
<rbasak> acheronuk: are you here?
<acheronuk> o/
<rbasak> #info Deferred
<rbasak> #topic MOTU Applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB Meeting | Current topic: MOTU Applications
<rbasak> #subtopic Rik Mills (acheronuk)
<rbasak> acheronuk: o/
<rbasak> Please could you introduce your application?
<acheronuk> I'm Rik Mills, the current mainly active Kubuntu developer
<acheronuk> My application and reasons for applying can be found here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RikMills/Applications/MOTU#Why_am_I_applying.3F
<rbasak> Thanks!
<rbasak> Any questions for acheronuk?
 * slashd reading his application page
<slashd> acheronuk, If I see it right, you had ~10 sponsored upload in the past 3-4 month, how given you MOTU today will unblock you considering you don't have a huge amount of sponsored upload lately ?
<sil2100> slashd: I suppose this was answered 'partially' in his application, I think
 * sil2100 reads it up again
<cyphermox> yes
<cyphermox> specifically where his link is anchored ;)
<acheronuk> slashd: it will allow me to do more that I might have hesitated to invest time in or bother people (sponsors with). It would also allow me to assit more in transitions and autotests where direct uploads are not the permission problem
<sil2100> I guess he does mention that he wants delays to be shortened, probably regarding NEW pacakge uploads?
<acheronuk> slashd: yes, subject obviously to as much scrutiny as AAs gave before
<slashd> acheronuk, okay
<acheronuk> just I would not have to MOTU hunt. That actually has not been as much a probelm lately, but these things come and go
<rbasak> Any more questions for acheronuk?
<rbasak> #vote Grant acheronuk MOTU
<meetingology> Please vote on: Grant acheronuk MOTU
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<rbasak> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from rbasak
<rbasak> I also have two proxy votes
<slashd> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from slashd
<sil2100> +1 (I have seen a lot from acheronuk and was really happy with his work so far, I think he's "good for MOTU")
<meetingology> +1 (I have seen a lot from acheronuk and was really happy with his work so far, I think he's "good for MOTU") received from sil2100
<rbasak> tsimonq2: votes +1
<rbasak> jbicha: votes +1
<rbasak> cyphermox: would you like to vote?
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<rbasak> Thanks!
<rbasak> I think that's everyone who's here.
<rbasak> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Grant acheronuk MOTU
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<cyphermox> sorry; I got distracted by SRUs :/
<sil2100> Darn SRUs
<cyphermox> you bet!
<rbasak> Congrtulations acheronuk!
<sil2100> acheronuk: congrats!
<cyphermox> pesky little SRUses
<acheronuk> Thank you all!
<Eickmeyer> Wooohooo acheronuk!!!
<clivejo> Congrats Rik :)
<acheronuk> clivejo: cheers
<cyphermox> acheronuk: congrats
 * acheronuk pours a Jack Daniels
<rbasak> Any volunteers to sort him out according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/KnowledgeBase#Actions_after_a_successful_application?
<rbasak> #action rbasak to add acheronuk to MOTU
<meetingology> ACTION: rbasak to add acheronuk to MOTU
<rbasak> #action rbasak to announce acheronuk's successful MOTU application
<meetingology> ACTION: rbasak to announce acheronuk's successful MOTU application
<rbasak> Is fossfreedom around yet?
<slashd> rbasak, I'll do it if not too late for the MOTU
<rbasak> slashd: sure: do you want to take those two actions then?
<rbasak> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: ACTION
<rbasak> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: ACTION
<slashd> rbasak, yup
<rbasak> #action slashd to add acheronuk to MOTU
<meetingology> ACTION: slashd to add acheronuk to MOTU
<rbasak> #action slashd to announce acheronuk's successful MOTU application
<meetingology> ACTION: slashd to announce acheronuk's successful MOTU application
<rbasak> Would others prefer to vote in fossfreedom's absence or defer?
<slashd> defer
<rbasak> OK
<rbasak> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<rbasak> Anything?
<rbasak> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Mar 25 20:05:07 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2019/ubuntu-meeting.2019-03-25-19.01.moin.txt
<sil2100> I think we're good for now, let's try resolving Rosco2's application though e-mail
<sil2100> I suppose vorlon gave a deadline for Beta, so we'd have to do this this week
<acheronuk> Thank you all again :)
<sil2100> (IIRC)
<sil2100> I'll continue pushing on that maybe
<sil2100> rbasak: thank you for chairing o/
<rbasak> yw!
<vorlon> cyphermox: you think it's unfair to ubuntustudio to have their packageset defined more narrowly?  isn't it more unfair to leave ubuntustudio unreleasable because it has no approved uploaders?
<cyphermox> vorlon: if a packageset is a flavour packageset, it should be maintained the same way we maintain all other flavour packagesets; that's all I'm saying
<cyphermox> vorlon: there's no question that we want ubuntustudio releaseable, and I think we're still well on track for that; it's just unfortunately that some DMB members couldn't be around to vote
<vorlon> ok, my skimming of the discussion made it seem like there was still an impasse
<vorlon> and IMHO it would be better to get him upload access to a narrower set ASAP and then figure out later what the consensus is on the larger set
<vorlon> in terms of fairness :)
<cyphermox> only by missing a single +1 vote; because we were quorate but couldn't pass to motion
<vorlon> ack
<cyphermox> vorlon: I think we should just have it pass rfn as things as and forego extra work that would then have to be unwinded.
<cyphermox> I can not type today
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-03-26
<doko> cpaelzer__: what's the status of the mailman MIRs? where do you need help?
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-03-27
<cpaelzer__> doko: I was away yesterday and busier than planned in the morning - I'll send a mail about the MIR status of mailman3
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-03-28
<rbalint> o/
<waveform> o/
<rbalint> xnox, asked me to run the meeting
<rbalint> so i go with that :-)
<rbalint> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Mar 28 15:02:04 2019 UTC.  The chair is rbalint. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<rbalint> #topic Lightning rounds
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
<gaughen> o/
<rbalint> echo $(shuf -e bdmurray tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox juliank waveform)
<rbalint> doko bdmurray cyphermox tdaitx waveform infinity sil2100 juliank rbalint
<doko> again at 4pm ...
<bdmurray> soon there will be no time changes right?
<bdmurray> it'll all be stable
<doko> sorry, no status. openjdk-11 transition, GCC updates, Python 3.7.3 release, some MIRs
<doko> (done)
<juliank> tz trouble will be over with next week
<bdmurray> woo it's me!
<bdmurray> sorted out issues with retracer-failed-queue-cronner-app with webop
<bdmurray> uploaded plymouth cosmic SRU for LP: #1794292
<bdmurray> reported update-notifier bug LP: #1821412 after extensive testing
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1794292 in plymouth (Ubuntu Bionic) "plymouthd crashed with SIGSEGV in /sbin/plymouthd:11 in ply_renderer_set_handler_for_input_source -> ply_keyboard_stop_watching_for_renderer_input -> ply_keyboard_stop_watching_for_input -> ply_device_manager_deactivate_keyboards -> on_deactivate" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1794292
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1821412 in update-notifier (Ubuntu) ""System program problem" report button does nothing" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1821412
<bdmurray> reported policykit-1 bug LP: #1821415 after lots of testing too
<bdmurray> review of retracer failure reasons see below
<bdmurray> discovered an issue with apport being unable to find pkgs for some executables
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1821415 in policykit-1 (Ubuntu) "pkexec fails in a non-graphical environment" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1821415
<bdmurray> fixed the above issue in apport r3229
<bdmurray> tested apport changes in staging Error Tracker, updated LP retracers
<bdmurray> submitted RT regarding production Error Tracker update
<bdmurray> investigation into apport crash LP: #1820132 - missing executable
<bdmurray> review, merge of colin's update-manager MP re changelogs
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1820132 in apport (Ubuntu Disco) "/usr/share/apport/whoopsie-upload-all:AssertionError:/usr/share/apport/whoopsie-upload-all@162:collect_info:process_report:add_gdb_info:gdb_command" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1820132
<bdmurray> done
<bdmurray> cyphermox:
<cyphermox> - shim-review: finally managed to review OpenSuSE Leap & SLES shims succesfully
<cyphermox> - MIR: reviewing containerd
<cyphermox> - verifying grub2 SRUs trusty: signature enforcement and grub-check-signatures (LP: #1401532) (LP: #1789918)
<cyphermox> - upload grub2-signed for pc-kernel 4.15 snap fix (LP: #1820898)
<cyphermox> - verifying netplan.io SRUs bionic/cosmic
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1401532 in grub2-signed (Ubuntu Xenial) "GRUB's Secure Boot implementation loads unsigned kernel without warning" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1401532
<cyphermox> - rework netplan systemd jobs ordering again; wpa reorder broke some minimal setups
<cyphermox> - setting up ubuntustudio for upload rights
<cyphermox> - migrating DMB scripts to git
<cyphermox> (done)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1789918 in grub2 (Ubuntu Trusty) "grub2 signed kernel enforcement doesn't check on upgrade that signatures are from trusted keys" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1789918
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1820898 in grub2 (Ubuntu Xenial) "grub in xenial fails to read pc-linux 4.15 kernel snap" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1820898
<tdaitx> * openjdk-11 bionic security transition
<tdaitx>   - gtk3 tests, backporting upstream fixes, looking for more fixes to backport and other bug reports, sadly gtk3 is currently still worse off then gtk2
<tdaitx>   - rebuild openjdk with gtk3 fixes, then with gtk2 as default
<tdaitx>   - uploaded new openjdk
<tdaitx>   - tested scilab and jabref, again
<tdaitx>   - driving android-platform-tools-apksig fixes on Ubuntu and Debian
<tdaitx>   - looking at jh_build (javatools) failure to use --release
<tdaitx>   - driving gradle delta into debian
<tdaitx> (done)
<waveform> * Pi classic first-boot specification (k/b+display, serial, and net)
<waveform> * Tested seeding cloud-init (inc. networking config) from boot partition of raspi image (re: net first-boot); tracing where partitions are named in livecd-rootfs
<waveform> * Worked on getting CM3+ to boot: armhf and arm64 working; turns out it just needs up-to-date firmware blobs (current device-trees are acceptable)
<waveform> * Added newer firmwares to linux-firmware-raspi2; need to check with sil2100 this is done correctly (new version, etc.)
<waveform> * Stripped out hacks from linux-firmware-raspi2 after raspi-sync discussion re: cloud-init networking config
<waveform> * Attempted (rather lamely) to aid doko with some arm-related python debugging (nearly there!)
<waveform> (done)
<rbalint> infinity is not online
<rbalint> cyphermox:
<cyphermox> I think you have a bug there
<rbalint> i mean sil2100 is out too
<rbalint> juliank:
<juliank>  * Followup SRU for apt/trusty to fix regression in previous one (LP: #1821308)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1821308 in apt (Ubuntu Trusty) "apt-get upgrade ignores pinning preferences since 1.0.1ubuntu2.22" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1821308
<juliank>  * Messaging adjustments for update-notifier-common's motd
<juliank>  * Reviewing some documents
<juliank>  * Uploaded fix for aptdaemon crashes with "raise StopIteration" (LP: #1811694)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1811694 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu Disco) "/usr/sbin/aptd:RuntimeError:_inline_callbacks:get_uid_from_dbus_name:return_value:_inline_callbacks:_check_simulated:_inline_callbacks" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1811694
<juliank>  * Fed the desktop team a new bug 1822082 :)
<ubottu> bug 1822082 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "[disco] Shell sometimes shows username instead of full name in top-right menu" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1822082
<juliank> (done)
<rbalint> * finalized unattended-upgrades fixes and sru-d + verified them
<rbalint> * uploaded systemd's wsl detection fix to Disco and Cosmic, and asked mvo to include the fixes in his uploads to Bionic and Xenial (thanks!)
<rbalint> * verified the wslu and systemd SRU-s
<rbalint> * partner work
<rbalint> * further unattended-upgrades improvements
<rbalint> (done)
<rbalint> any questions about the status?
<gaughen> I have one
<gaughen> tdaitx, doko - so what's left to do for openjdk11 in Bionic?
<rbalint> doko: i'm adding an autopkgtest to u-u to test upgrading everything to -proposed
<rbalint> that covers openjdk11 packages in proposed now
<doko> gaughen: looking at openjfx, and looking at unattended-upgrades
<tdaitx> gaughen: u-u for bionic and cosmic, checking gtk3 support on openjfx
<doko> gaughen, tdaitx: I asked rbalint to do that
<doko> and I think I  copied openjdk-lts to -proposed without waiting for the armhf binaries :-/
<doko> I'll need to sort that out ...
<gaughen> doko, tdaitx should I setup a sync for Monday?
<tdaitx> gaughen: I think so, steve was out this week, so could be a good way to get back to it
<gaughen> cool, will do
<doko> gaughen: I'm at a conference, so probably not ...
<gaughen> well I'll get sbeattie and tdaitx together
<rbalint> #topic Release incoming bugs (bionic)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Release incoming bugs (bionic)
<rbalint> #topic Release incoming bugs (disco)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Release incoming bugs (disco)
<rbalint> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-dd-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<bdmurray> bug 1821869? should we just target that doko?
<ubottu> bug 1821869 in python3.7 (Ubuntu) "bus error in test_gil test on armhf with 64bit kernel" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1821869
<doko> bdmurray: no
<bdmurray> doko: what is the tag for?
<doko> it says rls-dd-incoming, not assign-to-doko, or what did I read wrong?
<doko> anyway, if you would have read the status ... waveform is looking at that
<bdmurray> when I said target I meant target it to the release not to doko
<bdmurray> waveform: if you are looking at it perhaps you should be assigned?
<waveform> okay - I'm just putting together something with more space to test it (having run out on the CM :)
<bdmurray> okay, I'l target it and assign it
<gaughen> wait
<gaughen> so we're wanting to fix this for disco?
<bdmurray> I believe so
<gaughen> k
<bdmurray> then bug 1821412
<ubottu> bug 1821412 in update-notifier (Ubuntu) ""System program problem" report button does nothing" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1821412
<rbalint> sounds important to fix but we can sru that later
<bdmurray> yeah, that's ture
<gaughen> so we don't think this one is release critical?
<bdmurray> er, true and it may need SRU'ing to an older release
<gaughen> bdmurray, so let's get it in the queue for early in EE and then SRU
<bdmurray> Is it worth getting this fixed on the Disco image?
<bdmurray> I guess that's the real question.
<bdmurray> and I'd say no, so EE
<bdmurray> then that leaves bug 1822044 which is also High
<ubottu> bug 1822044 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Laptop freezes after installation is finished when pressing "Restart Now"" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1822044
<rbalint> i think this shoule be fixed, but probably not in our packages
<bdmurray> right, the restart now issues are never ubiquity
<rbalint> withot nouveau it seems to work
<bdmurray> this is recent hardware and is certified so seems important for DD
<gaughen> bdmurray, I just poked bjf about this bug
<gaughen> bdmurray, do you want to retarget it at something not-ubiquity?
<bdmurray> gaughen: will do
<gaughen> so one more thing on the first one - the python one - who will pick that one up?
<bdmurray> gaughen: I thought waveform is
<waveform> yup
<gaughen> ah cool, thanks waveform
<doko> Bug 1821350
<ubottu> bug 1821350 in linux (Ubuntu) "Lenovo X1: failing to resume from suspend after closing the lid" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1821350
<gaughen> what about bug 1809920
<ubottu> bug 1809920 in update-manager (Ubuntu Xenial) "prompt to upgrade to 18.04 shows while upgrade to 16.04 is still in progress" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1809920
<bdmurray> there needs to be another release to upgrade to for that to happen
<bdmurray> so if people are upgrading to disco, e won't be available yet so its not critical for fixing
<rbalint> +1
<bdmurray> maybe we should test that and see what happens if click yes during the existing upgrade
<bdmurray> I'll go ahead and test this
<bdmurray> so how about bug 1795477
<ubottu> bug 1795477 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "ubuntu-release-upgrader crashed with ValueError: could not convert string to float: '0,0000'" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1795477
<juliank> woohoo
<bdmurray> is that a localization issue?
<rbalint> imo this should be fixed
<rbalint> most likely l19n
<juliank> python-apt bug
<rbalint> l18n :-)
<juliank> well apt bug; this was supposed to be fixed
<rbalint> #topic Team proposed-migration report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Team proposed-migration report
<rbalint> #link http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
<bdmurray> juliank: when was it supposed to be fixed
<juliank> years ago I remember that problem from then
<bdmurray> actually the last report is from 1/26/2019 in the Error Tracker
<bdmurray> but that's not years ago! ;-)
<juliank> summary: this was fixed in xenial's apt 1.2.16 (nov 2016), but the people never upgraded to that before upgrading to bionic
<gaughen> xnox was going to look at fuse next week
<gaughen> python-numpty is the next one
<doko> numpy
<gaughen> python-numpy is the next one
<doko> graham inggs asked several times including rationale to ignore that one. He never got a reply ...
<doko> ... and not for the first time
<gaughen> doko, where did he ask?
<doko> #u-r
<doko> this is a waste of time, here, and for the community contributors
<gaughen> so I'm not sure what to do with this one
<gaughen> gdb
<doko> there's nothing with gdb
<doko> archive is frozen for the beta
<gaughen> k
<gaughen> doko, anything else on the list we should talk about?
<doko> gaughen: yes, things like lintian and cross-toolchain-base-mipsen
<doko> these all time out, and the runtime varies for some reason.  this is known, but nobody makes any progress on these
<doko> e.g. I gave back lintian/armhf until it succeeded
<doko> does anybody want to drive that with the release team?
 * doko looks at the vacuum of volunteers
<cyphermox> shouldn't we try to get to the bottom of it a different way? is this timing out reproducible when running autopkgtests manually?
<rbalint> cyphermox, i think there are just a lot of tests
<doko> yes, when I'm doing some other work on my machine
<cyphermox> rbalint: lots of tests is no good reason to timeout
<doko> so lintian is sequential
<cyphermox> rbalint: netplan has a ton of tests, they run one after the other, some of them take >60 seconds to run, etc.
<doko> c-t-b is a normal build using all the cpu's on the machine
<cyphermox> c-t-b?
<doko> c-t-b-m
<doko> cross-toolchain-base-mipsen
<cyphermox> ah
<rbalint> i pick lintian
<gaughen> thanks rbalint
<rbalint> anythong else from the queue?
<rbalint> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: AOB
 * doko is away next week at Linaro Connect, only working half day on distro stuff
<gaughen> 19.04 Final Freeze is two weeks from today
<gaughen> that's all I have to say Balint
<gaughen> rbalint,
<gaughen> +1 to closing the mtg
<rbalint> happy hacking the next weeks then, lets roll out an awsome Disco! :-)
<rbalint> awesome
<rbalint> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Mar 28 16:09:01 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2019/ubuntu-meeting.2019-03-28-15.02.moin.txt
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-03-23
<slashd> o/
<ddstreet> o/
<rbasak> o/
<teward> o/
<rbasak> Let's start then I guess?
<rbasak> #startmeeting Developer Membership Board
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Mar 23 19:02:55 2020 UTC.  The chair is rbasak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic:
<rbasak> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<rbasak> tsimonq2 to better document what we expect applicants to know (carried over)
<rbasak> cyphermox to build report for expiry from dev teams (carried over)
<rbasak> rbasak to announce/implement : Expiry policy for flavor developer team membership (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2019-July/002451.html)
<rbasak> teward to handle permission granting and announcements for rcj
<teward> mine is done.
<rbasak> On my action, I will do that soon, now that the new DMB is settled.
<rbasak> Can someone take over cyphermox's previous action please?
<sil2100> o/
<sil2100> (just now arrived)
<rbasak> It's related to dealing with requiring expiry of flavour developers without explicit renewal, as requested by the TB, I think?
<rbasak> Thanks teward!
<rbasak> I don't see tsimonq2 here.
<rbasak> Any volunteers for cyphermox's previous action?
<ddstreet> is there any details on what exactly it involves?
<tsimonq2> Thanks to teward for blowing up notifications. :P
<tsimonq2> Hello.
<rbasak> ddstreet: if it is what I think it is, it's https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2019-July/002451.html
<rbasak> I think there has been some discussion in previous meetings - we'd need to look at IRC logs.
<rbasak> But as people have changed, I don't think anyone should be held to any previous thoughts we had on this.
<rbasak> Just that it remains pending for us to implement for the TB>
<rbasak> .
<rbasak> tsimonq2: any news on your action please, or should I carry it forward?
<ddstreet> so, that email sounds like all that is being asked is to enable team expiry for the per-flavor teams, is that your understanding also?  the action item is talking about 'build report'
<rbasak> ddstreet: I remember a question (probably from me) on what exactly a "flavor team" is - for example is cloud or server included?
<tsimonq2> rbasak: Please do.
<rbasak> We need a list of them. But otherwise, yes.
<tsimonq2> (Carry it forward, that is.)
<rbasak> #action tsimonq2 to better document what we expect applicants to know (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: tsimonq2 to better document what we expect applicants to know (carried over)
<ddstreet> rbasak agreed, is that something the TB shoudl answer or is that something for us to define?
<rbasak> ddstreet: IMHO, the TB wouldn't mind if we just defined it
<rbasak> I don't remember how that turned into an action for a report
<rbasak> I'd have to look at old IRC logs
<rbasak> But IMHO, forget that, let's just get it done if we can find a volunteer.
<ddstreet> ok so we should probably have action item 1) define list of 'flavor teams' and 2) implement membership expiry for those teams
<rbasak> ddstreet: are you volunteering? :)
<cyphermox> o/
<cyphermox> so my action was to enable expiry, that's all
<ddstreet> cyphermox o/ hello!
<cyphermox> probably to notify everyone first, because it'll need people to help with setting the expiry when they add people for the delegated teams
<ddstreet> cyphermox did you have a list of specific teams to enable expiry for?
<rafaeldtinoco> o/
<ddstreet> full dmb house! \o/ party time
<teward> ddstreet: *turns on the rave lights and music*  :P
<rafaeldtinoco> is there any homework left for me ?
<rafaeldtinoco> or was it all taken ?
<ddstreet> rbasak i can at least take the action item to define an initial list of 'flavor teams' for review next dmb
<rbasak> ddstreet: thank you!
<ddstreet> unless rafaeldtinoco wants to take it :)
<rafaeldtinoco> no, its yours
<rbasak> #action ddstreet to define an initial list of 'flavor teams'
<meetingology> ACTION: ddstreet to define an initial list of 'flavor teams'
<rbasak> rbasak to announce/implement : Expiry policy for flavor developer team membership (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2019-July/002451.html) (carried over)
<rbasak> #info teward to handle permission granting and announcements for rcj: done
<rbasak> #topic DMB elections for the expired 2 members
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: DMB elections for the expired 2 members
<rbasak> #info Elections are now complete
<rbasak> No applications, so
<rbasak> #topic Outstanding mailing list requests to assign
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: Outstanding mailing list requests to assign
<rbasak> Looks like these go back quite a way
<rbasak> Adding lubuntu-update-notifier to the Lubuntu package set
<rbasak> From 8 Jan
<rbasak> Expired MOTU membership
<rbasak> From 17 Feb
<rbasak> Please add new printing-related packages to my upload rights into main
<rbasak> From 20 Feb
<rbasak> Requesting upload rights for ltsp
<rbasak> From 18 Mar
<rbasak> That's all the outstanding requests I can see.
<rbasak> Can I suggest that we nominate one DMB member to look into each, and ask if you need help?
<teward> re: lubuntu-update-notifier I'll take that one, and make sure that gets added to teh packageset - this wwas discussed separately with the Lubuntu Team in the past that this is a reasonable request (at least from me as a coredev)
<teward> i'll take that one
<rbasak> Thanks
<teward> re: ltsp request, that needs a separate PPU upload IMO
<teward> the request expands BEYOND LTSP when reading it further
<rbasak> For each one, determine if you can act alone, or if you need the DMB to vote, and if the latter, bring that up next meeting?
<teward> i already dug in LTSP so i'll take that one
<teward> as well
<rbasak> #action teward to handle request "Adding lubuntu-update-notifier to the Lubuntu package set"
<meetingology> ACTION: teward to handle request "Adding lubuntu-update-notifier to the Lubuntu package set"
<rbasak> #action teward to handle request "Requesting upload rights for ltsp"
<meetingology> ACTION: teward to handle request "Requesting upload rights for ltsp"
<rbasak> Volunteers for the other two please?
<rafaeldtinoco> let me have one
<teward> i have an opinion re: the printing rights request
<teward> but i won't take it :p
<teward> rafaeldtinoco: two for the taking :)
<rbasak> rafaeldtinoco: any preference? :)
<rafaeldtinoco> nope
<rbasak> #action rafaeldtinoco to handle request "Expired MOTU membership"
<meetingology> ACTION: rafaeldtinoco to handle request "Expired MOTU membership"
<rbasak> One more volunteer for the printing request please.
<rbasak> Does anyone have no action?
<rbasak> slashd maybe please?
<slashd> rbasak: sure
<rbasak> Thanks!
<rbasak> #action slashd to handle request "Please add new printing-related packages to my upload rights into main"
<meetingology> ACTION: slashd to handle request "Please add new printing-related packages to my upload rights into main"
<rbasak> That's all of them I think.
<rbasak> Can anyone see anything I've missed?
<rbasak> FWIW, this is an unusually large number of outstanding requests. Usually there's zero or one.
<teward> i have a few things that as a member of the Studio dev team i want to get into the studio packagesets
<rbasak> I guess it's just the backlog during the elction etc.
<teward> but that can wait as they have me (as coredev sponsoring contact) on their team so I can handle those uploads for them
<teward> and i really want Eickmeyer (whos PoC on the Studio Dev Team) to request those
<rbasak> OK
<teward> so just something to keep in mind but no action item needed for now
<ddstreet> if we've moved on to AOB I have one topic to discuss
<rbasak> The flavor packagesets are "fun".
<rbasak> They're automatically generated from a script.
<teward> yes they are rbasak xD
<rbasak> So you can't just add something - you have to modify the script, etc.
<rbasak> (or, in theory, rerunning the script should suffice, but I'm not sure it's ever been that simple)
<rbasak> #topic Select a chair for the next meeting (following alphabetical order of first names)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: Select a chair for the next meeting (following alphabetical order of first names)
<rbasak> We never did this in the past because attendance was so unreliable. Should we start this now?
<rbasak> Any objections?
<rafaeldtinoco> no objs
<ddstreet> sounds good to me
<rbasak> If not, tsimonq2 can start by chairing the next meeting as someone has already put together the list and he's first.
<rbasak> #info tsimonq2 will chair the next meeting
<rbasak> #topic Any other business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: Any other business
<rbasak> ddstreet: you're up!
<ddstreet> I wanted to bring up the topic of general team expirations
<tsimonq2> Sure, I can chair. :P
<rbasak> tsimonq2: thanks!
<ddstreet> i know MOTU and coredev, etc. have expirations enabled, but my thought was perhaps we should 'retire' people from coredev/motu/etc after X years of no uploads
<ddstreet> i suspect even people who have no intention of ever uploading again will still click the 'renew' button once every few years when their membership is reaching expiration
<ddstreet> bringing the topic up for thoughts from the dmb
<rbasak> I'm curious to know what other similar projects do.
<teward> I'm generally for the idea, but I'd like to see a report showing who has rights and who has exercised them
<teward> including PPU rights.
<ddstreet> rbasak similar projects meaning like freedesktop or fedora or github, etc?
<rbasak> Also, we sometimes get people whose memberships have expired ask for renewal. What do you propose to do if we get such a request after someone gets removed for having no uploads?
<teward> I think we need specifically to look at MOTU and CoreDev and specialized groups separately
<rbasak> ddstreet: like freedesktop and fedora. Community projects with a large number of "committers".
<teward> if they have a Launchpad group and we expire them from upload rights they aslo need to be removed / deactivated from the team at the same time
<ddstreet> that's an excellent point to consider, i personally would suggest anyone who is expired due to no uploads should re-apply, but it should be a policy (if we do 'retire' people)
<ddstreet> teward i like the report idea, that would be good info to have
<rafaeldtinoco> i'm in favor of re-apply idea if we ever start to demote devs
<rbasak> One thing that has happened recently is some people accidentally expire ("missed the email") so IIRC what we've done that is be fairly lax with readding them.
<rafaeldtinoco> rbasak: we could have an acceptable period
<teward> rbasak: With some exceptions, I think we should be more strict on enforcement
<rbasak> By "lax" I mean just re-add them if it's only been a month or so
<rafaeldtinoco> +1 on lax
<teward> or have a 'grace' period where they can be readded BUT have to have evidence of actually using those permissions
<teward> agreed +1
<ddstreet> yep, maybe if we enable a 'no upload retirement' policy, we could just disable the 'renew' emails
<ddstreet> but we would need a new email sent, saying 'you need to upload' instead of just 'you need to click this button' to stay in the group
<rbasak> Unfortunately to implement this I think we'd have to write some scripting ourselves
<teward> indeed
<ddstreet> yep
<ddstreet> ok probably no action to take now, but at least we're thinking about it
<rbasak> The Launchpad membership expiry doesn't stretch far enough for this proposal. To be clear: that's not intended to mean I'm opposed to this.
<rbasak> OK. Thank you for bringing this up.
<rbasak> I suggest that to make more progress someone writes a concrete proposal to the ML?
<rbasak> devel-permissions@ is probably the appropriate venue.
<rbasak> Any other AOB?
<rafaeldtinoco> +1 on proposal, with examples from other communities
<rafaeldtinoco> i liked the examples idea
<rafaeldtinoco> so we dont reinvent the wheel
<teward> +1 to sending to the ML (with a CC to the developer membership board list as well so it's alos listed htere)
<ddstreet> agreed from me also, as i brought it up i'll first see if i can get a report together as teward suggested
<ddstreet> and then email the list once the report is ready
<teward> rbasak: let's at least assign an action item to ddstreet for now re: getting together a report of:
<rafaeldtinoco> ddstreet: i'd write this as a small RFC so we grow it through the mail thread
<rbasak> ddstreet: do you want that as an action?
<teward> (1) who currently has upload rights, and (2) who has used them or not in the past year+
<teward> my two cents
<ddstreet> sure yep i'll take the action
<rbasak> #action ddstreet to write up a proposal for upload access expiry following some period of disuse
<meetingology> ACTION: ddstreet to write up a proposal for upload access expiry following some period of disuse
<rbasak> Anything further to discuss?
<rbasak> I guess we're done then.
<rbasak> Thanks all!
<rbasak> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Mar 23 19:35:05 2020 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-03-23-19.02.moin.txt
<ddstreet> o/
<ddstreet> bye all
<rafaeldtinoco> o/
<rafaeldtinoco> tku!
<sil2100> o/
<tsimonq2> o/
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-03-24
<cpaelzer> hmm nothing
<cpaelzer> yay I misread my clock by 2h, ignore the noise :-)
<didrocks> cpaelzer: you are allowed to be confused only next week :)
<cpaelzer> glad to know that didrocks
<cpaelzer> I'll stop for now ...
<cpaelzer> thanks for making me smile didrocks :-)
<didrocks> :p
 * ddstreet grabs coffee before mtg o/
<cpaelzer> o/
<didrocks> hey
<cpaelzer> jamespage: doko: didrocks: sarnold: joeubuntu: ping
<joeubuntu> hey cpaelzer !
<doko> hi
<cpaelzer> ok lets get this party started then ...
<cpaelzer> #startmeeting Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Mar 24 14:02:44 2020 UTC.  The chair is cpaelzer. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic:
<cpaelzer> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<cpaelzer> I had the action from Frankfurt sprint to reork the wiki (you all should have got a mail)
<cpaelzer> There is a suggested new page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionProcessNEW
<cpaelzer> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionProcessNEW
<cpaelzer> That unifies the old chaos of everal places (harder to find and unsure where to look at)
<cpaelzer> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MIRTeam
<cpaelzer> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionProcess
<cpaelzer> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMainInclusionRequirements
<cpaelzer> in addition to merging those I have added the review-templates that I've shown in frankfurt
<cpaelzer> is anyone against using the new page?
<cpaelzer> Once we agree I can do the changes to replace one of the existing pages and have the others refer to it
<didrocks> thx for working on that, I have a couple of remarks on the page and unsure how we should fix them
<didrocks> for instance, there is a discrepancy between how we give a MIR to the security team and the diagram below
<didrocks> the text is:
<cpaelzer> didrocks: the content is mostly the same as before - are your remarks new issues or already bad before my sugegsted change?
<didrocks> " * They might also delegate portions of the review to other teams, assign it to them, and set it to Incomplete; common cases are getting a thorough security review from the security team "
<didrocks> -> the diagram shows only "new" as a valid status though
<sarnold> good morning
<didrocks> cpaelzer: I think this was pre-existing, but as we consolidate in one page now, itâs more visible :)
<cpaelzer> yes didrocks
<cpaelzer> in recent times we really only kept incomplete if the bug-reporter had to come back later with tasks
<didrocks> (itâs minor, the rest is really really good)
<cpaelzer> the security Team was fine to pick the tasks in state "new" as well as long as they are assigned
<didrocks> ok, Iâll update the diagram to match this
<cpaelzer> na
<cpaelzer> didrocks: lets change the text
<didrocks> letâs set on incomplete
<didrocks> yep
<cpaelzer> the diagram is the simpler version
<didrocks> ack
<cpaelzer> one less state change
<doko> hmm, the process is "hidden" after the review description ... maybe should be moved up
<doko> we use incomplete for a placeholder bug, missing subscriber, missing stuff in the MIR
<cpaelzer> doko: we can makd #4 to become 3.1 would that work better for you?
<cpaelzer> doko: yes incomplete is "please comeback once XXX is fulfilled"
<cpaelzer> which can be subscribers, or "please add a test" or "needs new version" and such
<cpaelzer> doko: I'll move the process states up that is a good suggestion
<doko> I would make 4 -> 2
<cpaelzer> like an overview before the detail then
<cpaelzer> sure that can work as well
<doko> yes
<cpaelzer> done
<cpaelzer> the state chare has incomplete the way we use it
<cpaelzer> it is state #7
<cpaelzer> it is missing in the long text thou
<cpaelzer> I'll add at "Filing a MIR bug" as 4.2
<cpaelzer> done
<cpaelzer> anything else that anyone wants to change immediately
<cpaelzer> it is - after all - a wiki so you can do that at any time
<cpaelzer> but I know that this probably is the one time we really read and modify it
<cpaelzer> for quite a while
<cpaelzer> so is everyone ok now?
<cpaelzer> FYI - the one URL that will stay (=the page this unified content will take over) is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionProcess
<cpaelzer> and the other two will be come blank referrals (not sure if the wiki allows auto-referral but a link will do as well)
<cpaelzer> I'd be bold and consider silence = yes
<sarnold> cpaelzer: heh, good plan :)
<cpaelzer> last remarks to hold me back before we go on with the agenda?
<sarnold> I really like the new page
<sarnold> and removing two others is excellent value :)
<cpaelzer> thanks sarnold
<didrocks> for me, +1 :)
<cpaelzer> we realized when introducing ddstreet that we did ourselve not know on which page it was - so the task became obvious :-)
<cpaelzer> ok lets go on then
<cpaelzer> #topic current component mismatches
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: current component mismatches
<cpaelzer> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg
<cpaelzer> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.svg
<cpaelzer> geoip2 is ready for promotion
<cpaelzer> doko: could you do that right away?
<doko> sure
<cpaelzer> the bug is linked in the svg as usual
<cpaelzer> FYI that was the long tail of a geoip -> geoip2 change triggered by the last bind9 updates
<cpaelzer> other things worth to mention are libfido2 / libcbor which are worked on
<cpaelzer> more interesting for this section of the agenda might be the totally new bits
<cpaelzer> doko: I know you asked xnox about the seed change with python-is-... is the "what-is-python" related?
<doko> perl don't hurt me
<sarnold> don't hurt me, no more
<doko> yeah, I'm +0 thats we need that in main ...
<cpaelzer> do you know who is driving that?
<doko> xnox. I don't care if it's in main or not
<cpaelzer> ok he will let us know if he needs anything
<cpaelzer> he knows the people and the process
<cpaelzer> if we decide to do something abotu it it might be wrong
<cpaelzer> he will know better
<cpaelzer> next weould be apport depending on terminator
<cpaelzer> does anyone know more about that?
<cpaelzer> that is from binary apport-gtk
<cpaelzer> recent uploads by bdmurray
<cpaelzer> for now highlighting him is all that comes to mind, I'd expect him to file a MIR if one is need on  this
<cpaelzer> other opinions?
<didrocks> I think letâs wait for bdmurray to see his reason, but terminator in main doesnât really make much sense to me
<cpaelzer> doko: are you filing MIRs once you see them in mismatches usually - or are you pinging the uploaders?
<cpaelzer> didrocks: maybe it is an unintended pickup of the dependency, the changelog doesn't mention it
<didrocks> I think so
<cpaelzer> ok next agenda item
<sarnold> cpaelzer: I think it may be unrelated to apport itself though -- at least on my lists, apport-gtk Depends: on x-terminal-emulator
<cpaelzer> open MIR to assign to us
<cpaelzer> sarnold: yes on my focal it has x-terminal-emulator as well
<sarnold> cpaelzer: this may be a bug in whatever tool generates the svg, I don't know why terminator specifically was chosen to satisfy this dependency, nor why it recently changed
<cpaelzer> sarnold: it has "Provides: x-terminal-emulator"
<doko> apport should have a real package as the first alternative
<sarnold> doko: ahhhhh
<cpaelzer> yep it directly lists it in depnds
<cpaelzer> bdmurray: ^^ would you fix that in apport?
<cpaelzer> doko: can you carry that to him in whatever the next team meeting is for you?
<sarnold> on my big pile of unpacked packages, terminator is only ever mentioned in code, likely as a fallback option http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/jK7CgH5JWS/
<cpaelzer> #topic New MIRs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: New MIRs
<cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=NEW&assignee_option=none&field.assignee=&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<bdmurray> cpaelzer: the foundations team has a trello card to fix component-mismatches iirc
<cpaelzer> ok thanks bdmurray
<cpaelzer> I'll make sure cbor goes forward
<cpaelzer> I already did a review and have an open MP I need to review
<cpaelzer> to check if it fulfills my needs for 2new version"
<cpaelzer> it also is assigned to security
<cpaelzer> so no need to add further people to that
<cpaelzer> the other two are
<cpaelzer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-firmware-raspi2/+bug/1867813
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1867813 in linux-firmware-raspi2 (Ubuntu) "[MIR] linux-firmware-raspi2 to restricted" [High,New]
<cpaelzer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lxd-agent-loader/+bug/1868572
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1868572 in lxd-agent-loader (Ubuntu) "[MIR] lxd-agent-loader" [Undecided,New]
<cpaelzer> anyone feeling like picking either of them?
<sarnold> for the security part, I think I'd just like to give the binary package a quick re-review after it enters -proposed or similar, just to make sure the usual sanity checks are done
<cpaelzer> it seems security has already looked at lxd-agent-loader and it is a trivial package
<cpaelzer> sarnold: ack, that comment was for libcbor right?
<sarnold> cpaelzer: yes
<cpaelzer> I'll do lxd-agent-loader somewhen today or tomorrow
<cpaelzer> anyone willing to take https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-firmware-raspi2/+bug/1867813 plese ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1867813 in linux-firmware-raspi2 (Ubuntu) "[MIR] linux-firmware-raspi2 to restricted" [High,New]
<ddstreet> i would, but i already took lp #1868154 and lp #1868159 and don't want to take too many since i'm new to the process
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1868154 in realmd (Ubuntu) "[MIR] realmd" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1868154
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1868159 in adcli (Ubuntu) "[MIR] adcli" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1868159
<cpaelzer> agreed ddstreet
<cpaelzer> anyone else?
<cpaelzer> doko: this seems to be a foundations-case anyway - would you be able to give this one a look?
<cpaelzer> I mean 1867813
<cpaelzer> it seems everone is busy or unwilling :-/ doko since it is from sil2100 you probably are the closest member anyway - so he will bother you first :-)
<cpaelzer> we can wait for an answer int he last section of the meeting
<cpaelzer> lets go on for now
<cpaelzer> #topic Incomplete bugs / questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Incomplete bugs / questions
<cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<doko> ugh, not sure how to review that. I'll ask lucascz
<cpaelzer> thanks doko
<cpaelzer> openstack team seems to work on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/octavia/+bug/1864666 but it is still incomplete and got mentioned to be for 20.10 now
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1864666 in python-octavia-lib (Ubuntu) "[MIR] python-octavia-lib, ovn-octavia-provider" [Medium,Incomplete]
<cpaelzer> no action on that
<cpaelzer> for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ec2-instance-connect/+bug/1835114 I know that rbalint is waiting on rharper
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1835114 in ec2-instance-connect (Ubuntu) "[MIR] ec2-instance-connect" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<cpaelzer> neither of the recent incomplete bugs is "for us"
<cpaelzer> #topic Any other business?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Any other business?
<cpaelzer> this was long already, anything else by any of you?
<sarnold> nothing from me
<cpaelzer> ddstreet: I know you wanted second opinions on some reviews - is that ready for discussion?
<ddstreet> for lp #1864667
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1864667 in neutron (Ubuntu) "[MIR] neutron-ovn-metadata-agent" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1864667
<ddstreet> i started review, but as it's a binary pkg from a src already in main, i noted as such, and changed to 'In Progress' waiting for AA to handle it
<ddstreet> is that correct procedure?
<ddstreet> i haven't got to the other 2 i took for review yet
<cpaelzer> yeah, I usuaully do a quick sanity check but other than that new binaries on src-in-main does not need a new MIR
<ddstreet> do i need to subscribe any other person/team to the bug, or will an AA see it and handle it?
<ddstreet> i.e. putting the new binary pkg into main
<cpaelzer> TBH I don#t see that in mismatches
<cpaelzer> root@f:~# apt-cache policy neutron-ovn-metadata-agent
<sarnold> I think that requires Fix Committed, from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionProcessNEW
<cpaelzer> neutron-ovn-metadata-agent:
<ddstreet> i think the binary pkg is still stuck in focal-proposed
<cpaelzer>   Installed: (none)
<cpaelzer>   Candidate: 2:16.0.0~b2~git2020020712.d5b33ffc77-0ubuntu2
<cpaelzer>   Version table:
<cpaelzer>      2:16.0.0~b2~git2020020712.d5b33ffc77-0ubuntu2 500
<cpaelzer>         500 http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu focal-proposed/main amd64 Packages
<cpaelzer>         500 http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu focal-proposed/main i386 Packages
<cpaelzer> it is already done
<cpaelzer> I thnik this bug is useless extra effort
<ddstreet> ok well it's still good knowledge for me :)
<ddstreet> so it should be fix committed?
<cpaelzer> well, it is more like "invalid"
<ddstreet> ah since no action needed, got it
<sarnold> heh I would have thought Fix Released, since it's "resolved by an AA" :)
 * doko leaves the meeting, have to run for an appointment
<cpaelzer> cu doko
<ddstreet> doko o/
<ddstreet> ok i'll put it into 'fix released' just to avoid confusion about whether it belongs in main or not
<cpaelzer> ddstreet: I updated the bug
<didrocks> bye doko
<cpaelzer> coreycb: will come back if needed
<ddstreet> ah ok thnx cpaelzer :)
<cpaelzer> ok we are done then ...
<cpaelzer> anything else?
<cpaelzer> 10
<cpaelzer> 5
<cpaelzer> 3
<cpaelzer> 2
<cpaelzer> 1
<cpaelzer> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Mar 24 14:54:08 2020 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-03-24-14.02.moin.txt
<cpaelzer> thanks to everyone
<sarnold> thanks cpaelzer, all
<cpaelzer> I know this was a long one
<ddstreet> thnx!  bye o/
<sarnold> cpaelzer: I like the logarythmic countdown :)
<coreycb> cpaelzer: I think neutron-ovn-metadata-agent should be ok now, fixed it yesterday.
<cpaelzer> sarnold: sort of reverse fibonacci due to all the rabbits dying of a virus
<didrocks> thx :)
<sarnold> lol
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-03-25
<xnox> cpaelzer:  doko: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/what-is-python/+bug/1868991
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1868991 in what-is-python (Ubuntu) "[MIR] what-is-python" [Undecided,New]
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-03-26
<bdmurray> o/
<sil2100> o/
<rbalint> o/
<bdmurray> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Mar 26 15:01:33 2020 UTC.  The chair is bdmurray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<bdmurray> #topic Lightning rounds
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
<bdmurray> echo $(shuf -e vorlon bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity mwhudson juliank waveform slyon)
<bdmurray> mwhudson juliank waveform bdmurray rbalint sil2100 vorlon xnox doko slyon infinity tdaitx
<bdmurray> no mwhudson so juliank
<juliank> wooohoo
<juliank> * made the debian-cd oem work ready to land, take #2 (also handle kernel-flavour: default)
<juliank> * apt 2.0.1 (colored error prefixes, wooohoo)
<juliank> * synced python-apt 1.9.10
<juliank> * worked around mypy 0.770 failures in python-apt; fixed failure in mypy: https://github.com/python/typeshed/pull/3882
<juliank> * initial work on designing the interactive/non-interactive apt stuff
<juliank> * initial work on the installing grub to multiple ESPs (copy and paste code from grub-pc to grub-efi...)
<juliank> * some upstream grub emails
<juliank> (done)
<bdmurray> waveform:
<waveform> * Worked on uc20 boot sequence (tweaked env vars in boot script to fit new snapd requirements)
<waveform> * Added some bells and whistles to pibootctl (bash completion)
<waveform> * Started work on pi configuration tool to sit on top of pibootctl
<waveform> * Updated flash-kernel with new +raspi kernel flavor (LP: #1868071)
<waveform> * Updated flash-kernel to make initrd optional on pi; improves boot speed by 4s but requires further work before we can switch to it (LP: #1867791)
<waveform> * Preparing upgrade of linux-firmware-raspi2 (again!)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1868071 in flash-kernel (Ubuntu Bionic) "flash-kernel needs to support 'raspi' kernel flavors" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1868071
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1867791 in flash-kernel (Ubuntu Bionic) "initrd should be optional on pi" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1867791
<waveform> * Testing bionic->focal and eoan->focal upgrades on the pi (slowly :)
<waveform> (done)
<bdmurray> waveform: what flash-kernel testing can I help with?
<bdmurray> its a me!
<bdmurray> SRU verifications for apport bug LP: #1814611
<bdmurray> helped mclemenceau fix an apport autopkgtest failure
<bdmurray> tested setting regulatory domain to fix LP: #1862760
<bdmurray> special SRU review of glib2.0 - included badtesting packages
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1814611 in apport (Ubuntu Bionic) "turning off "Send error reports to Canonical" prevents using ubuntu-bug" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1814611
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1862760 in linux-firmware-raspi2 (Ubuntu Focal) "Unreliable 802.11ac connection on our raspi images" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1862760
<bdmurray> emailed ubuntu-devel re langpacks on desktop ISOs
<bdmurray> discussed RPi image symlinking
<bdmurray> uploaded u-r-u with updated kernel and initrd fallback size calculations
<bdmurray> much work on ubuntu-security-status
<bdmurray> â done
<bdmurray> rbalint:
<rbalint> * landed systemd 245.2 in Focal
<rbalint> * uploads via Debian: kodi 18.6 and all rev deps
<rbalint> * partner work
<waveform> bdmurray, mostly just making sure that on all pis it works without crashing and then a reboot operates correctly - I've tested it on a reasonable selection here but more testing is always good
<rbalint> * MIR: many lintian dependencies
<rbalint> * emacs: switch to use Python 3
<rbalint> (done)
<bdmurray> sil2100:
<sil2100> Oh, me
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - Kernel SRU reviews
<sil2100> - netplan:
<sil2100>   * Cherry-picked and sponsored Lukases autopkgtest fixes for netplan.io focal
<sil2100>   * Some discussions on future netplan plans
<sil2100>   * Reading up on SR-IOV devices and their support
<sil2100>   * Finished base implementation, finalizing filtered vlan setup
<sil2100>   * Started working on unit-tests
<sil2100>   * Looked into some details for the read-write spec
<sil2100> - Prepared release tracking document for 20.04 beta
<sil2100> - Moved the BetaReleaseChecklist to the tracking document
<sil2100> - Extended the GPG key for langpack builds, pushed to keyserver
<sil2100> - Built first set of focal language-packs, made sure the new -ckb packs got accepted
<sil2100> - Release team work, some FFe reviews
<sil2100> - Stuff
<sil2100> (done)
<xnox> rbalint:  emacs python3? which bits?
<bdmurray> vorlon is out for the week
<bdmurray> xnox:
<xnox> UC20 ubuntu-core-initramfs ftbfs debugging
<xnox> UC20 snapd.mount is mounted for install mode, now needs to happen for run-mode too
<xnox> Updating llvm-toolchain to final v10 release with s390x arch set to z13
<xnox> Uploaded atlas with min-arch set at z13
<xnox> Merge proposals for ubuntu-archive-scripts merged, switching GG series to single signed key
<xnox> Made merge proposal for what-is-python migration
<xnox> TODO: chat with mvo as to what is wrong with CNF data
<xnox> Worked on drafting OEM archive spec
<xnox> Working on OVS netplan spec
<xnox> done
<bdmurray> doko:
<doko>  - python b-d removals
<doko>  - MIRs
<doko>  - package removals
<doko>  - fixing ftbfs
<doko>  - OpenJDK updates
<rbalint> xnox, it called out to "python" to run sripts, see the very simple diff
<doko> (done)
<bdmurray> slyon:
<slyon> * fixed netplan's integration tests
<slyon> * split netplan into libnetplan.so + binaries, making use of the lib
<slyon> * verify and cleanup the packaging for libnetplan[-dev] and netplan.io
<slyon> * setup test env for libnetplan <-> NetworkManager netplan plugin
<slyon> * working on NetworkManager plugin code & creating unit tests
<slyon> (done)
<bdmurray> infinity isn't about
<bdmurray> tdaitx:
<xnox> rbalint:  tah!
<tdaitx> Short week: worked only 2 half-days
<tdaitx> * emails, checking and following up on new/updated bug reports
<tdaitx> Other:
<tdaitx> - limited connectivity; ISP disabled the old connection before enabling it in the new location, so my server cannot do any heavy lifting for now; expect to be fixed some time tomorrow morning
<tdaitx> - will work half a day today (maybe again tomorrow, depending on ISP) and will compensate these hours over the weekend
<tdaitx> (done)
<bdmurray> #topic Release incoming bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Release incoming bugs
<bdmurray> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<bdmurray> bug 1867065
<ubottu> bug 1867065 in casper (Ubuntu) "Installer hangs at boot on machine" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1867065
<bdmurray> this is related to the spinner theme stuff
<bdmurray> so lets move on
<bdmurray> bug 1868191
<ubottu> bug 1868191 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Unchecking all optional media apps, install fails" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1868191
<xnox> there has been some progres; but more casper work is needed
<bdmurray> This one seems to be a dupe of bug 1851346 so next
<ubottu> bug 1851346 in ubuntustudio-live (Ubuntu Focal) "Ubuntu Studio 19.10 Installer Causes Wanted Programs to be Removed" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1851346
<bdmurray> bug 1868716
<ubottu> bug 1868716 in git (Ubuntu) "git: fatal: mmap failed: Cannot allocate memory" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1868716
<bdmurray> doko: you think we should be fixing this for Focal
<doko> bdmurray: would be nice to have a working git?
<bdmurray> Okay, lets target and card that then.
<bdmurray> And lets all keep an eye out for issues with git
<xnox> possibly a support issue
<bdmurray> bug 1868240 - it looks like seb is investigating
<ubottu> bug 1868240 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "No plymouth screens displayed at all after installing the Nvidia driver" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1868240
<bdmurray> bug 1868409
<ubottu> bug 1868409 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "gnome-{calculator,logs,characters} snaps not removed after the equivalent APT packages are installed on 20.04, and gnome-software APT package not replaced by snap-store" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1868409
<bdmurray> I'm just gonna comment on that, I believe update-manager is supposed to sort this out
<bdmurray> rls-ee and rls-bb are fine
<bdmurray> #topic Team proposed-migration report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Team proposed-migration report
<bdmurray> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
<bdmurray> is openssh still with security?
<bdmurray> doko: ^^
<doko> bdmurray: yes
<xnox> mercurial -> i propose to reduce the autopkgtest to basic usage only
<bdmurray> netplan.io I thought I just read the tests were fixed
<xnox> yes
<xnox> but the test retriggers didn't happen (or got lost)
<slyon> netplan is fixed in 0.98-0ubuntu4
<xnox> i retriggered again today, there should be results in a few hours
<bdmurray> okay
<xnox> if not something odd is happening
<bdmurray> python3-defaults - kazoo
<bdmurray> the failure on arm64 looks the same as the amd64 failure which retrying fixed
<bdmurray> however retrying arm64 didn't help...
<bdmurray> So if somebody could help me look at it that would be nice
<bdmurray> xnox: did you look at python-fabio?
<xnox> yes, and gave up
<xnox> i don't understand it =(
<bdmurray> maybe mwhudson can sort it out
<bdmurray> what about scipy?
<bdmurray> It didn't show up last week iirc
<bdmurray> rbalint: can you look at beets?
<rbalint> bdmurray, sure, taking it
<bdmurray> xnox will take gnutls28
<waveform> I'll take mu-editor
<bdmurray> thanks
<bdmurray> I'll look at django-axes
<bdmurray> tdaitx: can you look at dune-common?
<tdaitx> bdmurray: will do
<doko> I'll look at beets
<bdmurray> slyon: Do you time to look at anything?
<slyon> I'm mostly busy with NetworkManager currently
<bdmurray> okay
<bdmurray> juliank: python-llfuse?
<juliank> ok
<bdmurray> I guess we need to loop around
<bdmurray> python-nacl - doko?
<bdmurray> scipy we'll leave for vorlon or mwhudson
<bdmurray> lapack - anybody?
<xnox> i'll take it
<bdmurray> pcre3 ... php-mockery we'll ask server
<bdmurray> uchardet - rbalint?
<rbalint> bdmurray, ok
<bdmurray> pinentry I'll have a look
<bdmurray> dpkg - julianâ½
<juliank> mhh
<xnox> sil2100:  lapack is no longer built on i386, so it should be badtested on i386, and then badtest removed, britney "missfired" i386 request
<juliank> that seems a bit excessive
<bdmurray> I'm sorry could you elaborate?
<juliank> well, there are no related failures afaict, and they're spread across a lot of ecosystems
<xnox> bdmurray:  i'll take dpkg to drive to resetting
<bdmurray> xnox okay, thanks!
<bdmurray> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<bdmurray> Next week is Beta!
<doko> yes, autopkg images
<juliank> I'm off tomorrow
<juliank> should we revert shim nowÃ
<juliank> ?
<doko> juliank: any progress with the update, or is it waiting on the kernel?
<juliank> doko: well, i have not looked
<bdmurray> how can we decide about shim?
<juliank> shim is breaking fwupd (or well, any argument passed to it)
<waveform> anybody that has a bit of time and a spare pi or three - feel free to test out pibootctl from ppa:waveform/pibootctl - now with (incomplete) bash completion :)
<bdmurray> julian will look in the age of focal autopkg images
<bdmurray> okay, lets wrap this up
<bdmurray> 1
<bdmurray> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Mar 26 15:51:16 2020 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-03-26-15.01.moin.txt
<mwhudson> bdmurray, doko: so you want me to look at scipy and python-fabio on excuses?
<bdmurray> mwhudson: that would help, yes
<mwhudson> ok
<mwhudson> why is it always scipy
<doko> mwhudson: ta
<mwhudson> isn't fabio just flaky?
 * mwhudson retries now, as queues are empty
<mwhudson> also er http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/s/scipy/focal/amd64
<mwhudson> are we being punished for it somehow passing once?
<mwhudson> looks like it's ooming
<mwhudson> doko: fabio passed on a retry, for scipy i made https://code.launchpad.net/~mwhudson/autopkgtest-cloud/+git/autopkgtest-cloud/+merge/381277
