#launchpad-yellow 2011-02-14
<danilos> gmb, hi :)
<gmb> Morning danilos :)
<danilos> gmb, how's it going? :)
<gmb> Oh, you know, doing mockups whilst outside it rains, that kind of thing.
<gmb> danilos: How was your week off?
<danilos> gmb, it was pretty good, passed one exam, failed the other one which was the next day (didn't really expect to pass that one :)
<danilos> gmb, btw, I just got to gary's email suggestion what I can do today, and one of the things is helping you if we can come up with a way for that
<gmb> danilos: Okay. I need to get through a few tasks this morning so it's prbably best if we try to work something out with gary at the standup.
<danilos> gmb, sure thing, I'll go back to churning email then :)
<gmb> Cool.
 * danilos -> food
<gary_poster> Oops!
<gary_poster> Sorry
<gary_poster> bac benji danilos gmb, mumble/kanban in 1 (i.e., enough time for me to get my act together :-P )
<bac> sorry, my sound was off
<gmb> I'm going to disconnect from the 'net for a while so that I can get stuff done - too many distractions today. Anything urgent, call me on +44 7725 525916
<gmb> You know, this whole "not being connected to the web and getting work done" thing has its advantages.
<gmb> Of course, it makes inbox zero harder.
<gary_poster> :-)
<danilos> gmb, if you stay disconnected, it makes inbox zero easier :) at least from your non-connected perspective
<gmb> True
<benji> gary_poster: I need a judgement call.  Testing this one line change is monstrous.  Either I spend a day or two more on this or I try to push it through as a one line, untested change.
<gary_poster> ack, benji.  one sec, lemme store state...
<benji> :)
<gary_poster> ok, benji.  So, this is the template change that produces a link.  I forget why there are two templates, but there are two, and one of them does what we want, and the other does not.  Questions that do not necessarily lead to a conclusion follow. :-P Is the one template that does what we want tested?  Have you done an implementation call with someone like Graham to doublecheck your assumptions?
<gary_poster> (your assumptons of what is necessary to write a test)
<benji> the template that includes the unsubscribe link is not tested (that I can find, but I'll looked very hard)
<gary_poster> gotcha.  So bugnotification-sending.txt is not pertinent?
<benji> I've not talked to Graham or anyone else about it.
 * gmb reads scrollback
<gary_poster> benji, here's my take.  Tell me what you think.  1) take a look at bugnotification-sending.txt and make sure it doesn't help you somehow, if you have not already.  2) if that's not a help, try Graham.  3) If he agrees with your understanding, go for the one line
 * gary_poster was trying to use "Graham" so as not to bother gmb unnecessarily (yet ;-) )
<benji> bugnotification-sending.txt is pertenent, but off limits because of it's doctestness (that's my understanding)
<gmb> Hah, I have overeager highlights.
<gary_poster> :-)
<gary_poster> benji, IMO if you can quickly figure out how to use bugnotification-sending.txt to test what you need, I think it is OK.  Alternatively, I'm writing a unit test version of some of the stuff in that file right now; I'm hopeful it will work, and if so, you can use it when I'm done.
<benji> I'll take a second look at bugnotification-sending.txt.
<gary_poster> benji, if you want to wait for my unit testy bits, you can put this aside and tackle something quick.  bug 718809 might be *too* quick.  Or you could investigate the next steps for your next job (the webservice bits).  That's a bit risky, but...
<_mup_> Bug #718809: New users should default to not receiving email for their own actions <story-better-bug-notification> <Launchpad itself:Triaged by yellow> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/718809 >
<gary_poster> ok cool
 * benji lunches
 * gmb -> going afk for a while to make dinner; will check back later
<gary_poster> thanks, bye
<gary_poster> bac, ping?
<bac> gary_poster: hi
<gary_poster> hey bac.  quick mumble?
<bac> ok
 * gary_poster is forced to go out and work on the porch because it is so lovely outside
 * gary_poster revels in how nice it is.
 * gary_poster goes back to work.
 * bac -> optometrist
#launchpad-yellow 2011-02-15
<danilos> gmb, btw, do you have time today to discuss what I might be able to help out with?
<gmb> danilos: Sure. I haven't had a chance to look at bugtask_index.js properly yet but I've got some ideas. Let me grab a drink and then we can chat if you're free.
<danilos> gmb, excellent
<danilos> _starbuck, heya, when did you turn into a _starbuck? :)
<_starbuck> danilos, when I finished battlestar galactica :P
<danilos> gmb, hey, how's that drink coming along?
<gmb> danilos: I was just about to ping you - sorry; got sidetracked with reviews and lifeless.
<gmb> danilos: So, mumble?
 * gmb lunches
<gary_poster> mm, mumble fun for anyone else?
<gary_poster> says my password is wrong
<danilos> gary_poster, worked for me this morning, let me try now
<danilos> gary_poster, oh yeah, wrong password as well
<gary_poster> thanks for looking danilos.  Maybe Skype today :-P :-)
<danilos> gary_poster, I'm checking on #is as well if it's something they are aware of
<gary_poster> cool danilos, thank you.
<danilos> gmb, fwiw, I've ended up with two files of a 1k lines each, but I still guess that's an improvement :)
<gmb> danilos: Hey, I'll take whatever wins I can get :)
<danilos> gmb, also, I don't feel like that split is natural in any way either (it handles both duplicate portlet stuff and subscribers portlet stuff)
<gmb> danilos: Right. In that case, the next step seems quite obvious, but given the diff size I think a separate branch would be in order :)
<benji> good morning bac.  is there a version of lp:~bac/launchpad/accordionoverlay/ with widgets in the overlay?
<danilos> gmb, in my book, it would be nicer if we split it up per "theme": link_to_branch, duplication, subscribers at the very least
<danilos> gmb, yeah :)
<gmb> Agreed
<gary_poster> benji, bac is out today I'm afraid
<benji> darn; thanks
<gary_poster> np
<danilos> gary_poster, mthaddon tells me our SSO is in read-only which might be the reason why we can't log into mumble, people are going to look into it
<gary_poster> danilos, ah ok thanks.  benji gmb danilos, how do we feel about Skype-ing this morning?  It looks like I have Benji's account in Skype, but not Danilo's or Graham's.  If Skype is OK, lemme know what you Skype nick is please
<danilos> gary_poster, SSO deployment likely to be done in the next 15 minutes
<gary_poster> oh
<danilos> gary_poster, danilo.segan
<gary_poster> well
<gary_poster> ok
<gmb> gary_poster: binnsgm
<danilos> gary_poster, (that was skype)
<gary_poster> yeah, inclined to stick to schedule.  cool thanks
<benji> gary_poster: +1 on skype
<gary_poster> cool
 * danilos patiently waits for skype to log in
<gary_poster> :-)
 * benji considers running his own mumble server
<gmb> gary_poster: I just got hissing on my end.
<gmb> Arrgh
<gary_poster> meh
<gmb> gary_poster: Skype upgrade
<gary_poster> call ended no answer that tim
<gary_poster> e
<gmb> Might have fubared my sound settings
<gary_poster> :-/
<gary_poster> try one more time
<danilos> I didn't get any call invitations :(
<gmb> Still hissing.
<danilos> it's not me!
<danilos> :)
<danilos> mumble is back, fwiw
<danilos> gary_poster, fwiw, moving a card still hits the limit
<gary_poster> "Switching to Edit mode..." takes over a minute...then I give up :-/
<gary_poster> there we go
<gary_poster> ok, limit is to 4 now
<gary_poster> gmb, everything has made nice sense on the bugchange/bug notification/bug 164196 stuff so far until I got to attachments.  AFAICT so far that one is on crack, because it is set up to track this apparently vestigial attribute on a BugDelta object.  Do you happen to know anything about this?  If not, I'll try to write a test proving that my observations are correct, and then fix it.
<_mup_> Bug #164196: Quickly-undone actions shouldn't send mail notifications <email> <lp-bugs> <story-better-bug-notification> <Launchpad itself:In Progress by yellow> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/164196 >
<gmb> gary_poster: Nothing comes to mind about it. I think writing a test is a good plan.
<gary_poster> cool thanks gmb
<gary_poster> gmb, I weighed in on bug 719249.  My goal was to give you control as to where to take it next, while agreeing with Robert that pre-loading the form might not be the best solution to the problem you identified.  If I didn't achieve that, or you have concerns, lemme know here or there. :-)
<_mup_> Bug #719249: The new direct subscription overlay takes too long to load <story-better-bug-notification> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/719249 >
<gmb> gary_poster: Right, thanks.
<benji> Am I the only one havving freenode connectivity issues?
<gary_poster> no
<benji> ok, I can go back to enjoying the scrolling text of reconnections then
<gary_poster> AFAICT I am not having issues, but I see a lot of others with issues starting @ 12:49:44 on launchpad-dev
<gary_poster> well, that was a net split
<gary_poster> benji: flacoste suggests you ask for more input on https://dev.launchpad.net/yellow/JavaScriptAPIAccessDraft from launchpad-dev (especially thumper/leonardr).  Sounds like a good idea to me. :-)
<benji> sounds good
<benji> I'll do so.
<gary_poster> cool
<gary_poster> thank you
#launchpad-yellow 2011-02-16
<danilos> gmb, btw, I figured that duplication stuff in my new file is actually all subscription related (that's for subscribers from duplicates), so there's not really much to do there
<gmb> Okay, cool.
<danilos> gmb, do you think there's any sense in continuing work there right now, or should I just pick up bug 718809
<_mup_> Bug #718809: New users should default to not receiving email for their own actions <story-better-bug-notification> <Launchpad itself:Triaged by yellow> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/718809 >
<gmb> danilos: I'd say go on to bug 718809. At this point it's probably a bigger win.\
<_mup_> Bug #718809: New users should default to not receiving email for their own actions <story-better-bug-notification> <Launchpad itself:Triaged by yellow> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/718809 >
<danilos> gmb, ok, sure, cheers :)
<gary_poster> oopsie
<gary_poster> bac benji danilos gmb: kanban mumble in 1
<gmb> Yarp
<danilos> ack
<danilos> gmb, it's kind of weird to have a name starting with "g" and be last alphabetically of 5 people, isn't it? :)
<gmb> Somewhat, yeah.
<gmb> Mind you, deryck used to randomise the order of business, so it's not that weird.
<danilos> heh
<danilos> anyway, /me goes hunting for food
<gary_poster> bac benji danilos gmb, who among you has not yet been a release manager?
<benji> not I
<gary_poster> I thought as much.  :-) May I volunteer you?
<gary_poster> Others, feel free to rescue him by volunteering to throw yourselves on the...thing I can't remember..., but I thought benji might be a likely candidate. :-)
<benji> gary_poster: they would throw themselves on the grenade, I would throw them under the bus
<benji> I'm cool with being RM
<gary_poster> benji, thank you
 * benji wonders if RM should be one of the maintenance team jobs.
<gary_poster> benji, I wondered that too, but noone was helping.  I'll check with flacoste briefly.
<gary_poster> ok, benji, bac, I'm ready when you are to talk about the subscribing mockup results.  I think the way forward is relatively clear.  I can propose what I think on IRC even, and see if we need mumble.
<gary_poster> So, thoughts:
<benji> +1
<gary_poster> 1) we ought to implement (a small variation of) version 1 for now.  It got a positive response, and it does not require any server-side changes, and it is similar on the UI side to what we would do for version 2, so it seems like a pretty clear next step.
<gary_poster> 2) version 3 (the assignee) we can ignore
<gary_poster> 3) we might get to version 2.  It got a lot of positive feedback, and we know a number of people have said they want something like that.  We can cross that bridge later.
<gary_poster> 4) We need to get rid of the ellipses.  As Benji said initially and someone else said in the reviews, a triangle is the right way to go.  We need a volunteer to try to come up with another mockup for this, for our own internal agreement.  I'm the default volunteer, if neither of you volunteer.
<gary_poster> 5) I don't think we need another UI testing iteration on this, unless possibly we work on version 2 later.
<gary_poster> (that is, if we work on version 2 later, we might or might not want to go for another UI testing; we can cross that bridge then.)
<benji> I completely agree.  We should keep in mind two additional important bits for version 2: 1) subscribing multiple people and 2) addressing the fear of choosing the wrong team (I don't think confirmation messages are the right approach, but we probably want something to address the concern)
<bac> gary_poster: what you propose sounds reasonable to me
<benji> I'm willing to do the triangle mockups.
<gary_poster> benji, agree
<gary_poster> (sorry had a call)
<gary_poster> benji, thank you, please go for the triangle mockups
<benji> k
<benji> (grr, why must I reload the kanban board every time I want to right click?)
<gary_poster> yeah, me too :-/
<gary_poster> I'll make notes of the version 2 comments you made, benji...on dev.launchpad.net/yellow I guess
<benji> k
<gary_poster> gmb, ok I've stared at the balsamiq mockups and have opinions and questions and other exciting things to bother you with.  Do you have a moment for a call (that I expect will be quick)?
<gmb> gary_poster: I will in about 10 if that suits
<gary_poster> gmb, great, ping me when you are ready.  thank you
<gmb> Will do
<gmb> gary_poster: Ready when you are on mumble
<benji> gary_poster: the webservice/JS plot thickens; the blue team is working on a new way to wire up YUI widgets to the webservice
<benji> it is is based on the current mechanisms but will supplant them
<gary_poster> benji, :-/
<gary_poster> or :-D
<gary_poster> depending on how you look at it I suppose
<gary_poster> benji, do you see a reasonable way forward?
<gary_poster> for us, now, I mean
<benji> they're not very far along so I think we should consider it to be in the future, therefore we should keep going the way we're going
<gary_poster> cool, benji
 * benji lunches
<danilos> gmb, hey, got a few mins to discuss plan for tomorrow?
<gmb> danilos: Sure thing. Let me get mumble running again...
<gmb> Ready when you are danilos
<danilos> gmb, let me find my mumble :)
<gmb> danilos: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/380205
<_mup_> Bug #380205: I should not get bugmail when I am subscribed via an invalid bugtask <email> <lp-bugs> <story-better-bug-notification> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/380205 >
<gary_poster> danilos, I had team lead call, and the change is a bit big after all.  Having lunch now.  I'll let you look at it tomorrow before submitting it.  Have a great evening.
<danilos> gary_poster, cheers, enjoy the day and tty on the morrow :)
<benji> wow, just had X crash, that hasn't happend lately
<benji> bac: do you have a version of the subscription overlay with any input widgets in it (as opposed to the accordion)?
<bac> benji: no, not yet.  i've been simpifying the way the accordion is created and just pushed it.
<bac> benji: now i'm going to start adding other stuff
<benji> ok
<bac> benji: some progress:  http://people.canonical.com/~bac/overlay-2.png
<bac> need to hide and squash the accordion, obviously
<benji> bac: very nice; when you get that pushed let me know, I could use it
<bac> benji: we're going to need to have access to a list of the teams a person administers in the LP cache
<bac> benji: i've pushed that branch to lp:~bac/launchpad/accordionoverlay
<benji> thanks
<benji> bac: would it be helpful if tomorrow I work specifically on exposing the team info to JS?  I bet I can get it done in one day.
<bac> benji: yeah, i think that'd be great
<benji> cool
#launchpad-yellow 2011-02-17
 * danilos -> food
<danilos> gary_poster, stand up and dance time? :)
<gary_poster> danilos, meh, soory, thanks, yes
<gary_poster> bac, benji, danilos, gmb, mumble/kanban in 2
<gary_poster> I mean 1
<gary_poster> I mean ASAP :-)
<gmb> Yep
<danilos> https://dev.launchpad.net/yellow/EmailNumberEstimation
<gmb> danilos: ~yellow/launchpad/bug-subscription-page-mockups/
<danilos> gary_poster, gmb: actually, I have one question about the X-Launchpad-Subscription-Description header
<danilos> gary_poster, gmb: what should happen if notifications that are part of one email are coming from multiple subscriptions?
<gary_poster> I say include them all
<danilos> gary_poster, ok
<gary_poster> gmb, I have 14:30-15:30 available for our call, and I doubt we'll need all of that.  If you want to just ping me after you have finished your email to Matthew, that's fine with me
<danilos> gary_poster, gmb: generally, this will probably require adding an actual filter link on bugnotification table as well, unless I am mistaken and we can encode that information in a different way
<benji> gary_poster and bac: lp:~benji/+junk/subscription-widget-mockups-triangles has modified versions of gary-alt with disclosure triangles in the only sane place I could think to put them, but I'm not reall happy with the result
 * bac fetches and looks
<gary_poster> danilos, I was just thinking that. :-/ if you don't think that you can fit it in now, feel free to reconsider your selection
 * gary_poster fetches and looks too
<danilos> gary_poster, I believe I can still fit it in, it's just that I feel like we are hastily adding more and more stuff to bugnotification table, losing the "archiving" property of BugNotificationArchive, and just generally feel unsure about just jumping in
<danilos> ugh, adobe air is not compiled for 64-bit linux :(
<gary_poster> danilos, ok.  1) feel free to take some time to not feel like we are being hasty.  Collect your concerns and talk to Graham about them, or if your concerns are more vague, just have a more formal pre-imp with him.  2) As far as the archiving property of BugNotificationArchive is concerned, I guess I don't understand the utility of the table.  I thought we just garbage collected old notifications after a month.
<gary_poster>  If not, why not?
<gary_poster> benji, I have some ideas.  Will tweak and propose
<benji> cool
<danilos> gary_poster, I don't understand it either, which kind of points to my "hastily" observation :) but I'll take a look at all that
<bac> benji: what action would cause the twisty to twist?  merely selecting the checkbox or actually clicking on the twisty?
<gary_poster> danilos ack :-)
<benji> I figured reacting to both would be good.
<bac> personally i think the twisties are unnecessary, especially since there is no good place to put them
<gary_poster> benji, any idea why I can't access the twisty on 1-add open?  I keep clicking to no avail, and I'm able to move the others
<gary_poster> ("are added or changed in any way")
<benji> gary_poster: heh, no no idea; maybe I accidentally created an antibiotic resistant twisty
<gary_poster> ah-ha, got the sneaky thing
<gary_poster> beji, bac, I merged benji's work and tweaked it, and pushed it to lp:~yellow/launchpad/subscription-widget-mockups/
<gary_poster> The thing we are trying to do is replace the ellipses as I understand it
<gary_poster> and make it obvious that there are more options
<gary_poster> I moved the triangle to the left, next to the control (radio button/checkbox), to try to make the unification clear
<gmb> gary_poster: Argh, sorry, completely missed your pings earlier somehow. Let me catch up on scrollback...
<gary_poster> np gmb
<gary_poster> Anyway, I think this is an improvement to the ellipses.  It still is a tad unorthodox since the form controls are kind of combined with the twisties, but it is clearer, at least to my eye
<gary_poster> I dunno maybe I'm fooling myself. :-/
<gary_poster> it certainly is more "present" than the ellipses
<gary_poster> danilos, I just read https://dev.launchpad.net/yellow/EmailNumberEstimation .  Thank you.  I have a few questions.
<benji> gary_poster: I considered the configuration you mocked up and it looks as bad as I figured it would :P  I'm not certain about my preference, but I think the ellipsis is an important clue, and the radio button next to the disclosure triangle seems jarring to me; maybe Huw would have some better ideas
<danilos> gary_poster, sure thing
<gary_poster> benji. ok. :-/  I prefer this over what you had.
<danilos> gary_poster, IRC or mumble?
<gary_poster> benji, bac, how's this then:
<benji> eye of the beholder, I guess :)
<gary_poster> 1) one of you throw this at Huw and see what sticks
<gary_poster> 2) meanwhile, we implement gary-alt as it was originally, without twisties.
<gary_poster> alright?
<gary_poster> danilos, was going to do IRC, but mumble is faster, so yeah, let's do that
<bac> gary_poster: that sounds like a reasonable path
<gary_poster> cool
<benji> +1
<gary_poster> great.  who talks to Huw? :-)
<gmb> gary_poster: So, email away; I'm free whenever you are.
<gary_poster> ok five minutes gmb thanks
<gmb> Sure
<benji> bac: do you want to email Huw, or shall I?
 * benji wonders if he was born with that spelling or changed it for better googlability
<bac> benji: why don't we tag team him?  i have to email him today about skinning the accordion.
<benji> ok
<gmb> benji: Huw's a Welsh spelling, so I guess his name might be an inherited one. At least he's not called Ruaridh.
<benji> :)
<benji> Ruaridh is certainly more likely to give good google results.
<gmb> True.
<gary_poster> danilos, ready on mumble when you are
<danilos> gary_poster, I just need 3 minutes, be right there :)
<gary_poster> cool danilos
<danilos> gary_poster, https://wiki.canonical.com/Launchpad/AnswerContact/
<bac> gary_poster: has a date been set for the next Launchpad Throwdown?
<gary_poster> bac, yeah, one sec lemme get it...
<bac> gary_poster: did you see this topic for trizpug next week?  http://us.pycon.org/2011/schedule/presentations/101/
<gary_poster> bac, I didn't.  Cool, I'll see if I can be there.  Dates are June 27-July 1, last I've heard
<benji> bac: I initally started adding the current user's team info to a branch from devel, but it occurs to me that starting from one of your branches would be better; which one should I use?
<bac> benji: let me update my latest work from devel (should pick up the new widget) and push it up.  give me a sec.
<benji> sure
<bac> benji: have a look at lp:~bac/launchpad/accordionoverlay
<benji> thanks
<bac> benji: latest layout tweaks: http://people.canonical.com/~bac/overlay-2.png
<benji> cool, looks good
<benji> the spacing between the widgets might be a bit tight, but I suspect you're not working on look and feel yet
<bac> benji: yeah, i'm just trying to get something on the page in roughly the right place
<benji> I endorse your approach.
<bac> \0/
<benji> I also endorse lunch.
<danilos> gary_poster, heya, one question re adding a link to bugsubscriptionfilter: a structural subscription always implies a bugsubscriptionfilter, right? or can we have just a structural subscription without having a bugsubscriptionfilter?
<gary_poster> danilos, it is possible now to have a structural subscription without a bugfilter.  That's probably a bad idea long term for the UI Brad and Benji are working on, so if it is also a bad idea for your work, that's just more ammunition for a change. :-)
<gary_poster> IOW, if you need that assumption, I think it is OK, and I think you can run with it now and have everyone on the squad check agree with it before you start work tomorrow
<danilos> gary_poster, right, I'll look into how easy/hard is it to enforce that (or I'd have to add *both* a structural sub and bug sub filter references to BugNotification)
<gary_poster> danilos, cool.
<gary_poster> danilos, I put you in Feature Work 3 since I was gone from there.  Not sure if you want task cards or what, so you might want to add those (or at least one)
<danilos> gary_poster, right, I'll likely need them, thanks
 * gary_poster lunching, should be back in 1:20 or less
<benji> bac: does this look like it'll fit the bill for the teams-the-current-user-administers data you need? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/568392/
<bac> benji: looks good
<benji> cool
<benji> bac: the branch is at lp:~benji/launchpad/accordionoverlay; I'm adding a couple tests to it now
<bac> ok
<gary_poster> bac, ready when you are, no rush
<bac> gary_poster: ok
<gary_poster> bac, good email to Huw.  Thank you.  I wondered when reading it if we should include a link to the Balsamiq mockup images so he gets an idea of the desired usage, but maybe that's not necessary.  If you've considered it and rejected it as unnecessary confusion, that's fine with me.
<bac> gary_poster: i was on the fence and fell off on the side of not sending it.
<gary_poster> cool bac
<gary_poster> lp:~yellow/launchpad/bug-subscription-page-mockups/
#launchpad-yellow 2011-02-18
<gary_poster> gmb, to your knowledge is there a way to get to https://qastaging.launchpad.net/~gary/+structural-subscriptions right now?
<gary_poster> I mean, via a link exposed in Launchpad?
<gary_poster> and hi btw :-)
<gmb> gary_poster: Hi. Nope, you can only get there by URL hacking.
<gary_poster> ok cool thanks gmb
<gmb> gary_poster: btw, I took on adding a mute button as it's a relatively simple change for me to tackle before the end of the week and won't block anyone if I don't finish it.
<gary_poster> gmb, sweet, thanks
<gary_poster> heh, the kanban representation is a bit unorthodox, but whatever :-)
<gary_poster> bac, benji, danilos, gmb, hi.  We'll do our delivery meeting after the standup (https://dev.launchpad.net/yellow#Due%202011-02-18).  If you need us to get a particular branch to show off your work (or some other preparation) please let us know beforehand.
<gary_poster> danilos, Benji and I talked yesterday about "Every structural subscription should have a filter."  He'll also need it for his work.  I said you'd be working on it, and lo and behold, you are. :-) He suggested that we could have a script that we could do this in three steps: 1) make a script that gradually adds a "include everything" filter to all structural subscriptions that do not have a filter, and get that
<gary_poster> running on the production database. 2) get a devel branch that makes a filter whenever you create a structural subscription (i.e., enforced in Python).  3) make a db patch that enforces this for next db rollout.  That sounded like a nice plan, because it would mean that we could rely on a filters being around after step 2 was rolled out and step one reported that it didn't see any more structural subscriptions
<gary_poster> without filters (and before a db rollout, which would help him).  So I pass that along for your consideration, if you haven't thought of it already.
<danilos> gary_poster, we have only around 23k StructuralSubscriptions atm, so we can create matching BugSubscriptionFilters during a DB rollout as well
<danilos> gary_poster, also, just having a BugSubscriptionFilter is enough for it to be all-inclusive (i.e. no need to set it to all statuses or something like that)
<danilos> gary_poster, so, I already have a branch where I am doing 1 and 2, and I thought about enforcing it in the DB directly, but that kinda gets ugly (multi-table constraints are ugly)
<gary_poster> danilos, ok.  The only advantage of the other plan is that we don't have to be blocked by a db rollout for work on bug 674422.  Ack and agree on just having a BugSubscriptionFilter
<_mup_> Bug #674422: Add a workflow to update StructuralSubscriptions <lp-bugs> <story-better-bug-notification> <Launchpad itself:Triaged by yellow> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/674422 >
<bac> gary_poster: my branch is at lp:~bac/launchpad/accordionoverlay -- i added it to the wiki page along with a screenshot
<danilos> gary_poster, I can still land it on devel, sure :)
<gary_poster> danilos: ack and awesome, sounds perfect
 * gary_poster has not written multi-table constraints so was speaking naively
<gary_poster> bac, awesome thank you
<danilos> gary_poster, as for the migration for existing data, we can ask for a manual DB query run as well
<gary_poster> danilos, you don't think it would produce a particularly long transaction?
<danilos> gary_poster, it'd be best to check it, I'll prepare a query and have it tested on staging
<gary_poster> cool thanks danilos
<danilos> np
<gary_poster> bac, benji, danilos, gmb, apologies for spamming you with IRC messages today, but here's the usual reminder: mumble/kanban in 2
<benji> I like reminders.
<gary_poster> :-)
<bac> +1
<danilos> lib/lp/bugs/javascript/bugtask_index.js
<danilos> lib/lp/bugs/javascript/bugtask_index_portlets.js
<bac> gmb, benji: I'd like to have a mid-imp sanity-check call today at your conveniences
<benji> bac: cool, I'll get with you after this call
<gmb> bac: I'll be available at the same time as benji
<danilos> hum, any suggestions for a catch-all BugSubscriptionFilter.description that we'll be creating? I am thinking 'Default', 'Catch-all' or empty
<danilos> (Catch-all might be inappropriate if for the first actual filter we reuse this one)
<danilos> gary_poster, fwiw, a transaction on staging to insert 23k BugSubscriptionFilters took 3.5s (iow, a full "migration"), so I believe we can do it live on the production DB as well
<gary_poster> danilos OK awesome.  I suspect we need to clear it with lifeless and/or stub?
<danilos> gary_poster, yeah, we'll need to clear it with a TL, and I'd definitely like to have stub look it over and confirm replication won't have trouble catching up either
<danilos> gary_poster, at least it was previously a policy for a TL to be able to approve queries :)
<danilos> gary_poster, so it can be you as well :)
<gary_poster> danilos, ok, I'm happy to give it a TL OK if stub approves. :-)
<danilos> gary_poster, excellent, thanks
<danilos> gary_poster, the only thing I need to come up with is the BugSubscriptionFilter.description value we want these entries to have
<danilos> benji, considering you had a need for this as well, any opinion? :)
<gary_poster> ...I'm inclined to not put in a description (or empty string if necessary)
<gary_poster> because that's how a subscription will look like be default when you add one manually
<gary_poster> IIUC
<gary_poster> danilos, so you see any issues with that?
<danilos> gary_poster, no, it's one of the options I considered as well, the only worry I have is that we'll have to make sure our implementation reuses this filter when a first "real" filter is created (or people will get all emails without realizing it is due to this catch-all filter)
<danilos> gary_poster, though, we'd want to make sure our implementation does that for more than this reason, so I don't see it as a real issue
<gary_poster> precisely, danilos
<bac> hi benji, gmb: i'm having some issues on my desktop.  if you proposed a meeting time i missed it.
<benji> bac: any time
<bac> benji: ok, let's wait for gmb
<benji> k
<gmb> I'm free any time too.
<gmb> Let me re-headphone myself and I'll join you on mumble
<gmb> bac, benji : Ready when you are
<bac> gmb: can you grab that branch i posted earlier on the wiki?
<gmb> bac: The accordionoverlay branch?
<bac> yes
<gary_poster> hey gmb, I thought malone-alpha team people would have the new JS widget on production now, but I don't see it.  Is that expected?
<gmb> Hrm.
 * gmb looks
<gary_poster> you are probably on call--no worries, reply when you can
<gmb> I'm not, actually
<gmb> Surprisingly :)
<gary_poster> oh ok cool
<gary_poster> :-)
<gmb> gary_poster: Hmm. WFM.
<gary_poster> oh!
<gmb> Let me check your membership of malone-alpha...
<gary_poster> I'm a member of https://launchpad.net/~malone-alpha
<gmb> Yeah.
<gmb> gary_poster: What page are you looking at that you're not seeing the overlay on?
<gmb> Maybe it's a jS problem.
<gary_poster> Maybe it's user problem.  https://launchpad.net/lazr.restful , clicking "Subscribe to bug mail...oh!!! duh. :-P
<gary_poster> There we go
<gary_poster> direct subscriptions work finr
<gary_poster> fine
<gary_poster> sorry :-P
<gmb> gary_poster: Yeah, it's bac and benji who are on the hook for the other one :)
<gary_poster> :-)
<gary_poster> cool, thanks gmb
<gmb> np
<gary_poster> gmb, have we announced to malone-alpha people?  Should I do that next week or today or something?
<gmb> gary_poster: I meant to do it earlier this week but mockups ate most of my time. If you could announce it that would be awesome.
<gary_poster> cool, will do.
<gmb> Thanks
<gary_poster> np
<gary_poster> danilos, with your work for bug 720826, it will be trivial to then have the email link back to "unsubscribe" include information on what filters caused the email to be sent, right?  The information will already have to be available.
<_mup_> Bug #720826: Add subscription description header for bug notifications <story-better-bug-notification> <Launchpad itself:In Progress by danilo> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/720826 >
<danilos> gary_poster, that's what I expect, yes
<gary_poster> cool thanks danilos
<danilos> gary_poster, i.e. I will be introducing a link to the actual BugSubscriptionFilter on BugNotification table
<gary_poster> danilos, I was wondering about that, only one?
<gary_poster> may need to be many to one
<gary_poster> one way r another
<gary_poster> or
<danilos> gary_poster, well, each notification is for one action, so when we construct the email, we should worry about that side
<danilos> gary_poster, one email includes multiple BugNotifications, so that's how you get one-to-many
<gary_poster> danilos, but an action may have been sent because of multiple filters
<gary_poster> I'm not sure we have to worry about this, but it should be a conscious decision not to
<danilos> gary_poster, hum, right, good point
<danilos> gary_poster, I am not going to even start on that today (I hope only to finish auto-creation of BugSubscriptionFilter by the EOD)
<gary_poster> danilos, cool, I won't stop you, but it can be in the back of your head for Monday
<danilos> gary_poster, right, I'll have to think about it, though I am pretty sure that we'd have to restructure our code for that as well (i.e. maybe a notification gets sent atm when a first filter is matched), but I don't expect that to be a big deal
<gary_poster> danilos, yeah, was thinking similarly, though I was merely *hoping* it was not going to be a big deal ;-)
<danilos> gary_poster, heh :)
<gary_poster> benji, I have this in my notes from this morning: " * We Should Do Something about mentioning that request/features always works in templates, and features only sometimes works."  Can I change that to "Benji will announce or document that request/features always works in templates, and features only sometimes works, and propose that request/features be the One True Way."?
<gary_poster> May I change that. :-)
<benji> gary_poster: sure; I'll do so by replying to Marin Pool's recent documentation effort email.
<gary_poster> cool thanks benji
 * benji lunches.
<gary_poster> gmb, unless you mind, I'm gonna move the kanban card for bug 204980 into quick jobs, so feature work 1 is more focussed. I'm then going to add a card for an API to get a person's structural subscriptions for a bug's tasks, as we described on the call.  Can I move the two mockup related cards in feature work 1/review over to Done/Done?
<_mup_> Bug #204980: bug contacts should be able to unsubscribe from implicit subscriptions <canonical-losa-lp> <lp-bugs> <motu> <story-better-bug-notification> <ubuntu-upstream-relations> <Launchpad itself:In Progress by gmb> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/204980 >
<gary_poster> oh and another hand-off: can you make sure that we know how to qa the two cards in QA/landing?
<gary_poster> (the two cards of yours, I mean)
<gmb> gary_poster: In order: 1) Well, you can move it, but I don't think it's a quick job after all (will explain in an email, but basically it breaks things in an intereting fashion). 2) Okay, 3) Sure, 4) Certainly.
<gary_poster> 1,huh, ok
<gary_poster> and the rest, ok thanks :-)
<gmb> gary_poster: Quick summary of problem #1: All the JS works fine, but Zope subsequently says "LOLWUT?" when you've muted a bug, due to the validation we do for the +subscribe page.
<gary_poster> Oh! So, you have a nice way to turn everything on and off, but the muting itself is a problem
<gmb> Right.
<gary_poster> I see. :-/
<gmb> BUT.
<gmb> I think I can see ways through it.
<gmb> So I'll file bugs (oh for bug relationships) about that and summarise the order I think things need to be addressed in an email to the team.
<gary_poster> cool thanks gmb.  um...I wonder what we should do about the janban board.
<gary_poster> or kanban
<gmb> gary_poster: Well, can we move that card back to the backlog without breaking stats or something?
<gary_poster> no not really :-P :-)
<gmb> Ah.
<gmb> Bother.
<gmb> gary_poster: Well, let's do this:
<gmb> 1. Update the card to reflect that what I'm *actually* going to do today is land incremental but non-user-impacty stuff
<gary_poster> I was going to suggest we delete it and remake it, or change it to "investigate" and move it to archive/done
<gmb> Or that.
<gmb> That seems simpler
<gmb> Simple wins.
<gmb> gary_poster: I'll do the latter.
<gary_poster> ok cool
<gary_poster> that sounds like a reasonable compromise between easy and reflecting reality
<gmb> Right.
<gary_poster> (change it into a task card too please, and remove the bug number or the kanban board will whine and complain)
<gary_poster> (or at last it does in my experience, when you try to make a new one with the same number)
<gmb> Done
<gary_poster> cool thanks
<gary_poster> then if you could claim a backlog lane for the tasks/bugs for this, with a new feature card for the bug number, that would be fab
<gmb> Sure, will do.
 * gmb -> afk for half an hour or so to braindump my thoughts about hte mute button
<gary_poster> cool
 * gary_poster lunching
<gary_poster> https://wiki.canonical.com/Launchpad/Strategy/2011RelCalDraft <- maybe useful
<gary_poster> Might become https://dev.launchpad.net/Releases/2011Calendar
<gmb> gary_poster: Brain dump: https://dev.launchpad.net/yellow/MuteButton. Filing bugs now.
 * gary_poster no longer lunching, now reading.  Thanks
<gary_poster> gmb, reading that page, one of the first thoughts I had was "I wonder if the enumeration is the wrong way to express muting"
<gmb> gary_poster: Possibly. I can't remember what we said we were going to do with the enumeration on direct subscriptions.
<gary_poster> A BugMuteTable that contains records of person, bug for thinsg that should be muted might be better
<gmb> I suspect so. My thinking is couched in terms of years of "oh, we used to have Ignore Subscriptions" cruft.
<gmb> The BugMute table solves more problems. OTOH, it needs yet another DB patch, but maybe that's not so terrible.
<danilos> my branch for always creating a BugSubscriptionFilter when a SS is created is up for review, though I'm about to leave for the week
<gary_poster> At this point, I think that's a sunk cost
<danilos> gary_poster, fyi ^
<gmb> True.
<gary_poster> danilos, ok cool.  Do you want me to try and land it if the review flies by?
<danilos> gary_poster, query already approved by Stuart, and I'll have it added as a special rollout requirement
<gary_poster> great danilos
<danilos> gary_poster, yeah, that'd be nice, I am putting it through ec2 test anyway (already under way)
<gary_poster> cool danilos.
<gmb> gary_poster: I'm sanguine about going either way with muted subscriptions. Simpler is better, and BugMute seems simpler.
<danilos> cheers, enjoy the weekend all
<gary_poster> cheers danilos
<gary_poster> gmb, are you still here for another 34, or are you 26 over?
<gmb> gary_poster: I'm 26 over and about to head down for dinner.
<gary_poster> OK cool, then I won't bother you
<gary_poster> Have great vacation!
<gmb> Will do, thanks.
 * gmb -> exeunt, in pursuit of not thinking about JavaScript
<gary_poster> :-)
<gary_poster> I've decided to take Monday off, so I'll see y'all Tuesday.  Have a great weekend.
