#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-01-23
<jjesse> everyone having a good evening?
<snap-l> jjesse: So far so good.
<jjesse> yay
<snap-l> https://twitter.com/#!/squeekyhoho/statuses/161257211241304064
<snap-l> http://lococast.net/archives/569
<jjesse> yay
<rick_h> phew, exhausted with accomplishment
<rick_h> new bookie update and new podcast
<rick_h> I must be on some good drugs :)
<rick_h> thanks for the timely edits snap-l
<snap-l> rick_h: NP
<snap-l> realy didn't need much editing
<tjagoda> You sons of bitches
<tjagoda> I click on your podcast link and immediately want to buy Geekdesk
<rick_h> lol
<snap-l> ;)
 * snap-l hopes rick_h has a referral code on there.
<rick_h> heh, we can't ger referrels for books, don't think the desk will work
<rick_h> but yea, tjagoda let me know if you've got any ?. I love mine
<snap-l> rick_h: Yeah, we went to that Moby Dick place one time
<snap-l> Looking to purchase a new tank, instead of using the Eclips 5 that I have
<snap-l> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204624204577177184275959856.html < holy shit
<snap-l> apparently the co-CEOs of RIM are toast
<tjagoda> FINALLY
<snap-l> make way for the even more clueless CEO
<tjagoda> Augh
<tjagoda> Although
<tjagoda> "little known company insider" could be awesome
<tjagoda> I'll hold out hope for that. =(
<snap-l> My question is "so what"?
<snap-l> They bring in a new CEO from within. How are they going to turn it around?
<snap-l> Ne product takes more than 6-12 months
<Blazeix> uhoh, rick_h. galaxy nexus troubles?
<tjagoda> I always assumed that the CEO's themselves were the root of all evil.
<rick_h> Blazeix: yea, it's a real bear.
<rick_h> Blazeix: pulling headphone won't enable the speaker on the phone
<rick_h> Blazeix: and if I make a call, it goes to headset mode when there's no headset so I can't hear anything
<Blazeix> ugh
<rick_h> getting freezing UI, having to reboot the device several times a day
<Blazeix> must be that free smiley theme you installed
<tjagoda> That sounds like my old blackberry!
<rick_h> something's gone horribly wrong with it in the last few days, but I've not added any new apps/etc
<rick_h> only thing I can think is I moved to the larger battery
<rick_h> but can't see how that could blow up the OS
<Blazeix> right, i've seen new batteries mess up laptops before, but never phones
<Blazeix> i'm curious if phone plugged in with no battery helps
<rick_h> I just keep putting off a reset because of all the work getting it going
<tjagoda> Crazy volts could confuse the processor
<Blazeix> though sounds like the issues are fleeting
<rick_h> maybe I'll do that. swap out to the old battery for tomorrow and see
<rick_h> I had a couple of apps update, amazon, gmaps
<rick_h> but man...annoyed to no end
<rick_h> ok, old battery in, we'll see what tomorrow brings
<tjagoda> Just read shuttleworth's blog about new Upstream QA stuff
<tjagoda> that makes me excited.  having a test suite run against upstream packages every time there's a change.
<rick_h> tjagoda: yea? good post. BIG ideas and lots of work going on there
<tjagoda> "Research  In Motion names Thorsten Heins President and CEO. Mike Lazaridis,  former Co-Chair and Co-CEO, becomes Vice Chair of RIMâs Board and Chair  of Boardâs New Innovation Committee. Jim Balsillie, former Co-CEO  remains a member of the Board. RIM Board Member Barbara Stymiest named  the independent Board Chair. Prem Watsa, CEO of Fairfax Financial  Holdings, also named to Board."
<tjagoda> If your name sounds as cool as "Thorsten Heins," I firmly believe you can turn around /anything/.
<snap-l> And Kobo is sending me another replacement unit
<snap-l> Apparently it has "Enhanced WiFi capabilities"
<snap-l> Will be disappointed if it can't find hotspots on Mars.
<snap-l> GOod morning
<rick_h> morning
<rick_h> damn I love 4g. Working from the car dealership this morning and rally can't even tell.
<snap-l> rally?
<rick_h> ok that was crazy
<rick_h> don't try to do ctrl-z in irssi :)
<snap-l> really? :)
<rick_h> but if you do, a fg will get it back
<snap-l> weechat doesn't have that problem
<rick_h> :P
<rick_h> I'm thinking of checking out weechat
<snap-l> heh
<rick_h> how does it swap channels?
<snap-l> Same as irssi
<rick_h> I'm getting always pressed up against my alt-x limits
<rick_h> bah
<snap-l> although you don't have access to 11+
<rick_h> I need something that doesn't start hitting window/terminal shortcuts with alt-e/etc
<rick_h> right
<rick_h> that's my problem
<rick_h> I've got 5 launchpad channels alone
<snap-l> so, direct is out, but alt-arrow will work
<rick_h> ok, but then it's not getting me anything I don't have with irssi
<rick_h> that was my one reason to check it out
<snap-l> It gives you a nice nick list
<rick_h> bah, /names is enough for me
<rick_h> I've never been "oooh, what I need here is to lose valuable real estate with an up to date list of people I don't talk to :P
<snap-l> It feels a bit nicer
<rick_h> unless it's cool and auto hides like the unity sidebar meh
<snap-l> Nah
<snap-l> it has it's advantages
<snap-l> I like it, overall
<rick_h> ok, well I'll put it back on the list but it's a bit low if no coolness with many channels. That's my killer feature
<snap-l> only thing I really miss is terminal URL clicking
<snap-l> There's a /buffer command to switch buffers
<rick_h> urxvt does that for me
<snap-l> Have I mentioned it's called "weechat"
<snap-l> because, you know... wee
<rick_h> lol
<snap-l> It supports jabber, allegedly, out of the box
<rick_h> ah, cool
<rick_h> no need to bitlebee it in there?
<snap-l> er, sorry, with plugin
<rick_h> lies!!
<snap-l> Yeah, so no bitlbee
<snap-l> http://www.weechat.org/files/scripts/jabber.py
<snap-l> It supports jabber with Python instead of bitlbee
<snap-l> so, ++
<rick_h> heh
<brousch> oooh, i like what i walked in on
<brousch> jabber and python
 * rick_h gets clothes back on
<brousch> oh come on
<Wolfger> morning
<rick_h> woot, check out the new bug listing stuff in LP https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad
<rick_h> now live
<rick_h> that's the feature my team worked on and they had me present how I'd do it when I interviewed
<rick_h> but for the record...I wasn't around until the tail end of the feature so I'm not a huge fan of all the decisions :)
<rick_h> and for the record #@!$#@$#@$#@ doctests
<Wolfger> not a fan of doctests?
<rick_h> no, @#$ no @#$#@$#@ no @#$#@$#@$#@$#@$#@$#@$#@$@ no
<Wolfger> Ooh, that's pretty
<brousch> looks like perl
<Wolfger> ROFL @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/901203
<rick_h> hmmm, perl...doctests feelings are pretty similar :P
<rick_h> actually I respect perl...I DON'T doctests
<brousch> You guys have talks at CHC now, right?
<rick_h> brousch: somewhat
<rick_h> not really, but working on it
<rick_h> we did a video night that was a talk
<rick_h> and I want to do a juju talk
<brousch> ah
<rick_h> so it's something we're working towards I think
<brousch> Brondsema was poking around for someplace else to practice his PyCon talk
<rick_h> now that we have the room/space for it
<rick_h> what is it?
<brousch> Decorators
<rick_h> I'd say it'd be cool if he knows it's a small space, 6-12 people in a small room
<rick_h> would be shorter drive to give it at Michipug
<brousch> same size as GRPUG ;)
<brousch> sometimes he in on the east side for work
<rick_h> but yea, sure we'd listen at any CHC
<rick_h> I can bring a little projector for him to use/etc
<brousch> I think he was going to try MichiPUG, but the dates may not work out
<brousch> I'll have him contact you if he's interested.
<rick_h> right, yea and a pycon talk is only 30min so he can do any CHC
<rick_h> sure, sounds like a plan
<brousch> I wish LansingPUG would get their butts moving. Would be a good central place
<brousch> 99 RSVPs for grwebdev tonight
<brousch> yowza
<snap-l> brousch: Wow, that's awesome.
<brousch> yeah, and i get to be MC
<Wolfger> woot
<brousch> the original theme was JQuery - Winning!
<brousch> but now it's JQuery - Winning?
<brousch> only 1 talk is about jquery, 2 are about moving away from jquery to javascript, and one is just about javascript
<snap-l> Can we please stop with the Winning!
<Wolfger> never
<snap-l> Those are some nice kneecaps. Would be a shame if something were to happen to them.
<Wolfger> although I would point out it's possible trademark infringement (not sure if he succeeded in registering that)
<brousch> heh
<Wolfger> so snap-l is not a Sheen fan? :-p
<snap-l> How do I put this in a way that can be easily understood and not too overly broad
<snap-l> pop culture is like a can of shit.
<snap-l> no matter how many times you repackage it, it's still shit
<snap-l> You can dress up the label, give it a nice pop-top, line the sides to preserve flavor
<snap-l> but it's still shit on the inside.
<snap-l> And Charlie Sheen, while a decent actor, is part of the morass of shit
<snap-l> At least, Two and a half men was part of the morass of shit
<snap-l> To recap: What was the original question? :)
<brousch> why are you so full of hate?
<snap-l> Too many cans of shit
<Wolfger> ah, so, snap-l is not a fan of popular culture. Which is arguably a contradiction in terms, but only really stuck up people would argue that...
<snap-l> Bacteria are a culture
<Wolfger> different culture
<Wolfger> different use of the word, I mean
<snap-l> I don't think they're too far apart. ;)
<brousch> in my defense, the theme's title was created at the apex of sheen's antics. it's just getting presented now
<brousch> i would not choose the same title today
<Wolfger> brousch: all wrapped up in snap-l's can of shit
<snap-l> Wolfger: It's not my can, I'm just pointing out the packaging.
<brousch> i pretty much ignore pop culture, but if some of it bubbles up to me i figure it must be widespread enough to use
<Wolfger> Me, I'm just a fan of crazy.
<Wolfger> Sheen went crazy in a very entertaining and dare I say cool fashion, as opposed to, say, couch-jumping Tom Cruise
<snap-l> Cruise did Top Gun, Sheen did Top Secret
<snap-l> I rest my case on who is cooler.
<Wolfger> and so things like Winning! and tiger blood appeal to me. They are flags of cool craziness.
<snap-l> Bah, I mean Hot Shots!
<Wolfger> snap-l: Cruise did cooler movies, Sheen did cooler crazy
<Wolfger> for Cruise, going crazy was a huge step down. For Sheen it was a big step *up*
<llua> http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Wallpapers
<rick_h> brousch: nice on the meetup.
<rick_h> brousch: and nice to see that there are others moving on from jquery :)
<brousch> yeah, i was surprised. we had a javascript talk almost exactly 1 year ago and 90% of the audience said they use jquery
<rick_h> :)
<rick_h> I can tell the future!!!
<brousch> now allof the local javascript ninjas are moving on
<rick_h> except I doubt many people there will be YUI users :(
<brousch> i'm seeing a lot of backbone
<rick_h> yea
<rick_h> backbone is winning, from the guy that did underscore.js
<Wolfger> You need to take the next step, from predicting the future to creating the future
<brousch> Wolfger: thus the move to canonical!
<rick_h> Wolfger: meh, then I run the risk of being ahead of my time and failing
<Wolfger> you can't fail. You're too big to fail. Plus, tiger blood... ;-D
<krondor> llua:  I kind of like some of those origima inspired wallpapers.  Pretty nice.
<llua> krondor: http://www.doodle.com/rci5689d49xkssbp
<llua> vote for it then
<llua> :D
<rick_h> and speaking of wallpapers http://hungfu.wordpress.com/2012/01/23/precisely-how-were-going-to-make-the-wallpapers-in-12-04-the-best-ever/
<Wolfger> cool
<brousch> i've never really noticed the wallpapers
<rick_h> yea, I've not used a wallpaper is a couple of years now
<snap-l> heathens
<snap-l> Wallpaper is crucial
<snap-l> and not just some picture of your kid plastered int he middle of your screen, I'm talking honest-to-goodness Wallpaper
<snap-l> the kind that makes people wonder what the hell you're smoking
<brousch> mine is always covered by windows
<Blazeix> solution: transparent terminals
<llua> ^
<brousch> i prefer my terminal be readable
<Wolfger> Blazeix++
<Wolfger> brousch: that's what shading is for
<Wolfger> shade enough for readability, but not so much you can't make out the wallpaper
<brousch> blah
<brousch> if i want pretty fluff i'll go back to osx
<rick_h> terminal heathens!
<rick_h> brousch: ++
<rick_h> as soon as you tile your first terminal you never see a wallpaper
<rick_h> if I want pretty inspiration I'll paint the wall
<Wolfger> term wars...
<Blazeix> brousch: you make the background slightly transparent, but the text not transparent at all
<Blazeix> as long as you have a darkish background, it works well :)
<rick_h> damn right, it all comes down to if you're getting stuff done or just making pretty screenshots for the desktop gallery in the forums :P
<Wolfger> rick_h: painting the wall isn't a mobile solution
<rick_h> man, finally a decent win http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2012/01/supreme-court-holds-warrantless-gps-tracking-unconstitutional.ars
<snap-l> There goes rick_h, painting the walls in order to get work done
 * snap-l wonders if he can get a mural in his cubicle
<brousch> you must have a mighty big cubicle
<snap-l> Has to be to contain my awesome. :)
<rick_h> see, that cube has to be owned by someone with such powerful humility. So glad the tradition continues on :)
<Wolfger> rick_h: I hate reading articles about the 4th Amendment, because somebody always mentions the "expectation of privacy" standard. Which is crap. My rights should not go away simply because the powers that be succeed in lowering public expectations.
<Wolfger> "Oh, everybody knows anything you post to the internet isn't private!" Bam, no 4th amendment protections online.
<Wolfger> It's a fine line to saying "Everybody knows you can be tracked by your cell phone" to legal warrantless GPS tracking of anybody who uses one.
<Wolfger> Even the majority opinion in this case said they ruled the way they did due to physical trespass involved.
<Wolfger> Without physical trespass, this could have been 4-3 or 5-2 in the other direction.
<snap-l> I really hate the idea that because it's easier to track people, we should legalize it
<snap-l> We have a warrant system for a reason
<rick_h> Wolfger: yea, it's not total, but honestly, these days with everything bypassing due process and warrants I'm happy something fights back a little bit
<Wolfger> Point taken.
<brousch> Wolfger: What do you have to hide?!
<Wolfger> But I've never been so demoralized by a victory...
<snap-l> rick_h: If you're doing surveillance and not using a judge, it should be inadmissable in court
 * brousch releases a pre-lunch troll
<snap-l> period
<Wolfger> brousch: what do you think I have to hide? I'm confessing nothing.
<snap-l> Have a few high-profile cases tossed out because the police didn't follow that rule. They'll adapt
<Wolfger> also, you missed pre-lunch by about an hour
<snap-l> Getting a warrant should be like reading Miranda
<brousch> no, it is 11:59am
<rick_h> Blazeix: ok this is crazy, but the phone so far today is behaving better with the old battery. Giant WTF I say
<brousch> naughty battery
<snap-l> rick_h: That's sick.
<snap-l> as in not good
<Wolfger> brousch: how late do you eat lunch?
<rick_h> snap-l: yea
<krondor> rich_h:  probably a calibration issue.  It will usually take a few charge/discharge cycles before the phone stops lying to you
<rick_h> krondor: it's not that
<rick_h> I swapped to the official samsung high capacity battery and had all kinds of issues
<rick_h> the headphone jack is confused if there's a headphone there/not
<rick_h> I'd get total lag, phone would lock up for 30+s
<rick_h> and then unfreeze only to hang again
<rick_h> I thought I was oging to have to do a total factory reset because something got fubar, but so far today (swapped back the battery last night) I've listened to podcasts, audio books, email etc all seem ok
<rick_h> sure, the notification for email has stuttered a couple of times, but no hangs, no headphone jack issues
<rick_h> I'll keep going, but it sure seems odd
<krondor> that seems really odd, I'm trying to understand how a new battery could do that (short of undervolt/overvolt issues)
<rick_h> krondor: that's why I swapped the battery expecting to do a factory reset today
<rick_h> and why I say "Giant WTF"
<krondor> did your nexus report the battery as healthy when you used it?  Maybe it's defective and giving the wrong volt or running super hot (but you'd notice that)
<rick_h> it didn't error at me in any way
<rick_h> where do you see if "healthy"?
<krondor> about device in settings, status, should have a spot for battery (discharging/not charging).
<rick_h> I'll swap back out and check in a bit
<krondor> if android thinks its defective it will say unhealthy, but it's a pretty dumb test so I'm not sure how 'unhealthy' the battery really needs to be
<rick_h> yea
<snap-l> rick_h: Did you order the battery from Amazon?
<rick_h> snap-l: no, verizon :)
<snap-l> OK
<rick_h> it's the official from big red real article
<snap-l> Wondering if you got a counterfeit.
<rick_h> krondor: ok, so I've got settings->battery which shows the pretty graph and list of apps
<rick_h> says 64% discharging and the phone already feels laggy
<rick_h> damn, and krondor I can confirm that the diff battery breaks the headphone jack detection
<rick_h> guess I'll be visiting my local verizon dude after work
<snap-l> That's insane
<snap-l> but, then again, it is Linux underneath. ;)
<rick_h> I blame java!
<Wolfger> sounds like a bad (undervolt) battery...
<Wolfger> but Java is a good thing to blame too
<Wolfger> snap-l: the king of all navel-gazing questions: http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/131402/what-is-programming
<snap-l> Wolfger: We have a winner
<snap-l> I want to know who decided anise was something you could use for biscotti
<snap-l> because now I have this odd licorice taste in my mouth
 * rick_h looks up anise
<rick_h> http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-anise.htm for those playing along at home :)
<Wolfger> snap-l: the same people who decided candy-coated anise was a good idea?
<snap-l> rick_h: The only reason I know it is because I don't like that black licorice taste
<rick_h> oh heh, forgot I don't pull my ubuntu Gmail folder into my imap server so totally not seen any MUG/ubuntu-us-mi emails for a long while
<snap-l> rick_h: For shame
<snap-l> You've missed all of the job announcements
<rick_h> all the gib videos
<snap-l> Yep
<brousch> i <3 anise
<Wolfger> dang
<Wolfger> I think you insulted him, snap-l
<snap-l> heh
 * Wolfger looks at large swathes of missing data, and quietly proclaims "Hulk smash!" (...head into keyboard, repeatedly)
<snap-l> Wolfger: Nice
<brousch> oh man. a metric buttload of kde stuff is updating now
<Wolfger> brousch: nice to see that you storming out of the channel over a profound love of anise was short-lived. :-)
<brousch> had to reboot from all these updates
<brousch> did someone say something not nice about anise?
<Wolfger> not since you left
<Wolfger> Some days I hate my job... Last week I analyzed the data from 2 weeks ago and it showed pretty clearly that one station (and not the stations around it) was losing about 0.1% of its data....
<Wolfger> So boss and I decided we'd wait until [today] and analyze the data for the week beginning 1/16...
<Wolfger> Now I'm seeing a mixture of single station data loss, but mostly I'm seeing diagonal swathes of data loss, indicating that for some period of time the server lost data on all stations
<brousch> a server problem that is getting progressively worse? raid array failing?
<Wolfger> no nothing like that
<brousch> anonymous hacking in and jacking your stuff?
<Wolfger> Problem 1 is station PLC programming error that I'm trying to prove to the vendor is not working right (hard to do at a 0.1% failure rate because it "looks good" whenever anybody looks at it during production)
<Wolfger> Problem 2 with the time-based-loss of all data either indicates network issue, or server CPU/RAM loading issue (seen that before), or possibly overloading PLC data concentrator if these stations I'm looking at are on the same controller
<snap-l> Yeah, and of course it passes muster when all eyes are on it
<Wolfger> Having 2 problems at once: not fun to troubleshoot
<snap-l> COuld it be a debug-related flag?
<Wolfger> ?
<Wolfger> There is no debug mode. I'm just analyzing production data
<snap-l> are you running the test stand in debug mode in order to see the 0.1% data loss?
<snap-l> OK
<snap-l> Have you tried turning it off and on again
<snap-l> ?
<Wolfger> LOL
<brousch> REBOOT
<Wolfger> On an unrelated note, I just got an e-mail from Groupon Goods, and they are trying to sell me IR night vision binoculars with video recording for $35. I think they want me to go to prison...
<brousch> Wolfger: i don't know. sounds like they have your tastes down pat
<ColonelPanic001> saw those on woot.com a while ago
<snap-l> Wolfger: Or amateur pron
<Wolfger> I would get into so much trouble, legal and/or otherwise, if I owned that product and it was any good
<Wolfger> s/would/could/
<snap-l> Oh this is lovely
<snap-l> Kobo wants me to ship back the reader to them (again)
<rick_h> oh joy :)
<snap-l> apparently they're treating it as though it's defective, and out of warranty.
<snap-l> so they're asking me to ship it back at my expense to Toronto
<Wolfger> get a Kindle
<snap-l> It's light enough; I think I can throw it that far
<Wolfger> embrace Amazon
<snap-l> Wolfger: Already covered. Got a Nook.
<brousch> color?
<snap-l> Tablet
<brousch> nice
<snap-l> I told them either to pay for shipping, send me an updated firmware, or close the ticket
<snap-l> frankly the only reason I need wifi on this device is to download their content.
<snap-l> and if they're not willing to fix that at their expense, then fuck 'em.
<brousch> in the ear or in the neck?
<snap-l> both
<Wolfger> snap-l likes neck
<snap-l> Wolfger: YEah, I need the extra toom
<snap-l> room
<snap-l> for a service-oriented company, this is pathetic
<brousch> sounds like penny pinching from a company on the ropes
<snap-l> Got a note from Sen. Carl Levin
<snap-l> it's the most wishy-washy "I'll review the new bill when it's available" bit of tripe I've read.
<snap-l> We need money out of politics.
<snap-l> seriously.
<Blazeix> oh, snap-l and rick_h, you were talking about buffers > 10 in weechat a while ago
<Blazeix> you can press alt+j, then the number, to go to that buffer
<snap-l> Blazeix: Oh, that's pretty cool
<snap-l> thanks!
<snap-l> http://tots.1o24.org/gvim-problems-after-upgrading-to-ubuntu-11-10-oneiric-ocelot/
<snap-l> +++++
<snap-l> Anyone know how to get Python's logging to use the same filehandle for a different application name
<snap-l> I've already set the filehandle, and want to essentially say "Hey, log this too"
<snap-l> I'm not seeing an easy way to do this
<rick_h> snap-l: you create a filehandle instance, can't you keep that around for access/reuse?
<snap-l> I guess I'm having trouble figuring how to keep it around.
<rick_h> hmm, interesting. I've not had the gvim issue at all
<snap-l> It's driven me nutty
<rick_h> snap-l: you'll need some sort of registery or stick it in a module level global, that kind of thing
<snap-l> rick_h: so keep a blank variable during init, and then return it?
<snap-l> or just use it as a global?
<rick_h> snap-l: well you've got some sort of magic logging module you're importing/using right?
<snap-l> Yeah
<rick_h> so just have a module level constant there. LOG_INSTANCES
<rick_h> and when you create the data, stick it in there as a dict or something
<snap-l> Ah, I have an idea.
<snap-l> Yeah, thanks
<rick_h> then you can do things like "if 'myfile' in logger.LOG_INSTANCES:"
<snap-l> Needed a little thought push
<rick_h> or whatever, depends on how your stuff is setup
<rick_h> cool, let me know if you need anything
<snap-l> Basically I'm trying to get sqlalchemy to log alongside the regular log output
<rick_h> snap-l: right, like the pylons apps do
<rick_h> well, as part of the config
<rick_h> basically what happens there is that the .ini defines a FH
<rick_h> and then that FH is attached to the app/etc loggers
<rick_h> and then that ini config is passed to the SA side when it's setup
<rick_h> that's the other thing to do, just mandate a logging.ini that all of the code can read/setup
<rick_h> and have your logger module provide helpers for that
<snap-l> This started so simply. :)
<rick_h> :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-01-24
<tjagoda> ruhoh
<tjagoda> disk sounds loud in this laptop
<tjagoda> Might be the excuse that breaks my will and has me plunk down for an SSD =(
<rick_h> ssd ftw
<tjagoda> Yeah
<tjagoda> just dont want to spend the $$ tho
<tjagoda> Has the market leveled in terms of performance?
<tjagoda> I remember when Intel was king of SSD's.
<rick_h> yea, some, but I'm still hesitent to move outside of intel
<rick_h> but I'm not a big risk taker
<Blazeix> I like OCZ, but it can be a gamble
<Blazeix> I happened to win that gamble, and have a really fast ssd, but i've heard horror stories about reliability
<rick_h> yea
<tjagoda> Does canonical tell you if they reject your app?
<rick_h> not sure how the app process works
<rick_h> I'd imagine they would, they're very eager to help/get people involved
<tjagoda> It says "open," I was unsure if they actually go through and cull out the hordes
<tjagoda> Or if they only communicate to the serious candidates
<rick_h> not sure
<tjagoda> Your SSD, is it your primary drive?
<rick_h> yea
<rick_h> on my laptop it's my only drive
<rick_h> and on my desktop it's / and /home is a normal drive
<snap-l> tjagoda: They'll let you know if they don't accept your app
<snap-l> it's pretty impersonal, but at least they have a response.
<tjagoda> oh, cool
<snap-l> Not that I would know or anything. :)
<snap-l> Went and looked at fish tanks this evening
<snap-l> When it's all said and done, this is going to be rather expensive.
<snap-l> Seems like there's a huge price increase when you hit 20+ gal
<tjagoda> Are you investing in fish futures?
<snap-l> Yes
<snap-l> hopefully in their long living futures.
<snap-l> http://openmetalcast.com/2012/01/23/open-metalcast-episode-39-catch-up-mustve-heard-and-relish/
<snap-l> g'morning
<rick_h> ugh
<snap-l> That good, eh?
<rick_h> feel like crap today, rough morning
<snap-l> rick_h: Sorry to hear that. :(
<mydogsnameisrudy> Morning
<Wolfger> morning
<Wolfger> got my thanks-but-no-thanks from Canonical
<snap-l> Wolfger: Sorry to hear that
<rick_h> :(
<snap-l> On the flip side, I've gotten quite  few of those.
<rick_h> makes you feel better I got a pair of those
<snap-l> insert 'a" in there
<rick_h> heh
<rick_h> and we go for the same line
<snap-l> rick_h: Yep
<snap-l> Wolfger: I know exactly how you feel, though
<Wolfger> Well, at least I know and I'm not waiting to hear. Wonder if tjagoda got his or if he's in the hunt
<Wolfger> They were probably "Michigan, again? We need to spread it out more." :-)
<rick_h> hah, state quota exceeded
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> WE need more uruguayans
<snap-l> http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/postgresql-for-wordpress/ <- I wish Wordpress supported PostgreSQL out of the box
<snap-l> and without a plugin
<rick_h> problem is scaling requires a non-crappy ORM and they just ditch it and go mysql
<snap-l> http://codex.wordpress.org/Using_Alternative_Databases
<snap-l> Sadly, they need someone smart like Michael to make it work
<snap-l> (Bayer, iirc)
<snap-l> Wow, people are really demanding of html5
<snap-l> http://html5.please.us
<snap-l> http://html5please.us <- rather
<snap-l> waiting for html5makemeasandwich.us
<rick_h> love this https://twitter.com/#!/alex_gaynor/status/161797413936431105
<brousch> that has convinced you to switch?
<brousch> you have a lot of porn site ideas in the queue?
<rick_h> I just think that's a great summary for a project
<rick_h> "we make porn and big media sites kinda easy...might help with other things to, but meh we're not following that too close"
<snap-l> Wasn't that one of the other things that made Turbogears awesome too?
<rick_h> yea, TG biggests site was a porn site long ago
<rick_h> hard to put on the wall of fame to show off your framework :)
<brousch> depends on who you're catering to
<brousch> for instance, i would not be offended by that
<snap-l> Just have a LOT of pixellation.
<snap-l> "Sites using (framework): bobsfish.com, quickietshirts.com, anal-destroyers.com
<brousch> shows it's scalable
<brousch> speaking of anal-destroyers ...
<tjagoda> o.O
<tjagoda> I am opposed to this title.
<brousch> well then you shouldn't have missed last night's meeting where it was voted on
<tjagoda> But I was here last night, and definitely witnessed no meeting =(
 * tjagoda smells skullduggery 
<jrwren> snap-l: is that pgsql for wordpress maintained?
<tjagoda> Windows Live Essentials and Bing Bar are my most frequently uninstalled applications.
<tjagoda> Blasted users.
<jrwren> what is wrong with live essentials?
<jrwren> i need my live writer!
<brousch> bing bar?
<brousch> you let your users user IE?
<jrwren> lol, good point.
<snap-l> jrwren: It allegedly runs up until 3.2.1
<snap-l> has a date of 9/2011 as the last release
<jrwren> snap-l: not bad.
<snap-l> jrwren: It's more recent than the other attempts
<snap-l> but I still don't trust it
<jrwren> i like the idea.
<jrwren> though it seems like if you are gonna do that, might as well go all the way to nosql
<jrwren> wordpress on mongodb :p
<snap-l> jrwren: I'm glad it exists, but I'm really hoping native PGSQL comes soon
<snap-l> jrwren: That would be sweet.
<jrwren> i don't think it is a goal at all.
<snap-l> jrwren: From the discussion, it seems like a "yeah, we really should do this, but it's non-trivial"
<rick_h> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=w_WW-DHqR3c
<Raggs> hi, can Debian and ubuntu share a /home dir?
<rick_h> I call this the successful completion of gnome do taking over ubuntu
<rick_h> Raggs: probably wouldn't reccomend it
<rick_h> they'll be competing over the same .gnome and such directories
<snap-l> Raggs: At the same time? No
<rick_h> and the software will be the different versions/etc
<snap-l> rick_h: ++
<Raggs> snap-l, well only one will be booted at a time
<tjagoda> I have to let my users use IE
<snap-l> Raggs: I'd recommend if you need files with both versions to create a shared area
<tjagoda> Automotive supplier websites that dont work outside it
<snap-l> and put the files that are to be shared in that area.
<Raggs> yep, sounds like an idea
<tjagoda> And asking them to use two browsers would frankly blow a few of their minds. =(
<tjagoda> Dont get me wrong, my users are not mindless drones
<tjagoda> But yeah =(
<brousch> mine use FF for everything but those crappy sites
<brousch> it does not hurt their minds
<tjagoda> Do yours refer to everything as "the internet?"
<tjagoda> or alternatively, e-mails
<snap-l> http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/372385/ubuntu-rips-up-drop-down-menus <- Ugh
<rick_h> ... waiting for adfarm.mediaplex.com
<rick_h> there it goes
<snap-l> OK, it's a little interesting
<snap-l> but accessibility is just taking it in the neck, isn't it?
<snap-l> Why is this going into 12.04, as well?
<snap-l> I thought the idea was stability, quality, etc
<rick_h> well technically it can be more accessable if it helps allow better search through menus vs hunt/peck :)
<snap-l> Apparently it's quality, unless there's a really cool feature
<rick_h> but yea, this is agiant whatever
<rick_h> lol
<rick_h> but check out Mark's blog post. They've got 90% test coverage
<snap-l> Yeah, that's awesome.
<snap-l> I'm just trying to figure out how to explain this new interface to my parents
<snap-l> they're still on 10.04
<snap-l> AS long as it degrades nicely for apps that are, well, Java, this should be pretty interesting.
<tjagoda> I am a fan of hunt and peck
<tjagoda> especially when I cant remember wtf the name of my program is
<tjagoda> Most frequently happens with Libre office
<tjagoda> whenever I need to remember what the powerpoint equiv is called
<_stink_> even though my workflow is pretty well established, and i will likely never use any of this new GUI stuff... i have to say i'm so happy someone is pushing the envelope.
<snap-l> I'm just pissed focus follows mouse is dead
<snap-l> NERDRAGE!
<_stink_> hehehe
<_stink_> can't you just use twm?
<tjagoda> I refuse to believe that anybody other than a reanimated Steve Jobs can advance UI design!
<brousch> snap-l: FFM works well for me
<brousch> also, my computer looks pretty much like 10.04
<tjagoda> Same here
<tjagoda> Only less orange, and more blue
<brousch> i'm sure you could find an orangish theme
<snap-l> brousch: Yes, I'm sure it does, but I'd have to get over a new problem
<snap-l> mainly throwing up in my mouth every time I moused over something.
<brousch> your prejudices are clouding your mind
<snap-l> (slow draw) THIS IS A WINDOW. YOU CAN USE THIS WINDOW TO DO SHIT
<brousch> free yourself from your gnomish bonds
<snap-l> gnever.
<brousch> ok, that made me snort
<snap-l> ;)
<snap-l> OK, meeting time
<rick_h> snap-l: tell the family I said hello :P
<mydogsnameisrudy> whats a good command to see all computer ip/s on my local network
<rick_h> mydogsnameisrudy: nmap http://nmap.org/book/man-host-discovery.html
<mydogsnameisrudy> thank you
<rick_h> The point: evaluate the technology against your problem, and aim to get good fit.
<rick_h> oops
<rick_h> https://plus.google.com/u/0/106413090159067280619/posts/Pb8E7XBwYGY
<rick_h> is what I meant to paste
<rick_h> stupid synergy
<tjagoda> That makes me sad
<tjagoda> =
<tjagoda> =( *
<brousch> rick_h: wow, that is scary
<rick_h> yea,  that's the kind of room I'd love to be sitting in the back in
<rick_h> "Jobs was a sucky blow hard!!!!" and then run out
<Wolfger> Oooh, HTML 5 Cookbook on dotd
<brousch> ok, wow. copying big files through dolphin, it puts the whole file into ram
<snap-l> Ok, I don't have that one yet.
<snap-l> brousch: You're doing it wrong
<brousch> copy, paste
<snap-l> brousch: You're doing it wrong
<brousch> :P
<snap-l> rsync FTW
<brousch> rsync from my camera?
<snap-l> Yes
<snap-l> :-P
<brousch> i took HD video of last night's meeting. it's in 4 files of 2-3GB each
<brousch> that 3GB is gonna be a bitch
<brousch> i really need more ram
<snap-l> Is it mounting the camera as a Mass Storage Device?
<snap-l> because if so, rsync should work. :)
<Wolfger> I have mixed feelings about this: http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/24/tech/web/judge-defendant-decrypt-laptop/index.html?hpt=hp_bn6
<brousch> ok, i took the sd card out and tried again
<brousch> with just sd card it does not copy the whole thing into ram
<rick_h> Wolfger: I hate that myself
<brousch> through camera, it does
<brousch> the camera mounts as some goofball kind of device
<brousch> damn, that's much quicker
<snap-l> brousch: PTP, iirc.
<snap-l> It's some goofy protocol they use.
<brousch> sounds right
<brousch> works fine for photos, but is a bitch one these videos
<snap-l> Means it doesn't mount the device, but it's a lot slower IMHO
<brousch> i'll just have to keep that in mind
<krondor> brousch:  it's probably accessing the camera through PTP
<krondor> snap-l:++ didn't see your post :)
<krondor> my lack of reading comprehension means its time for lunch bbiab
<snap-l> Heh
<Wolfger> Hmm. The word "heimlich" translates to "secretly"... Gives a whole new meaning to "the heimlich maneuver"
<Wolfger> Sounds like something I'd want those IR video recording binoculars for
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> I am weak. Have barely touched the other HTML5 books, and I purchased the HTML5 cookbook
<snap-l> Damn you, O'Reilly
<snap-l> They're books, not Pokemon
<Wolfger> gotta catch 'em all
<snap-l> Oldie: http://james-iry.blogspot.com/2009/05/brief-incomplete-and-mostly-wrong.html?
<snap-l> rick_h: Did you see this: http://bytefluent.com/vivify/
<rick_h> nice, no
<snap-l> Looks like the ultimate way to waste a day in vim. :)
<rick_h> booo, doesn't update url so I can share the link
<snap-l> fuck, I'm starting ti tile my windows
<rick_h> bwuhahahahaha!
<snap-l> What's happening to me?
<rick_h> it's inevitable
<snap-l> This keyboard? It's too quiet.
<snap-l> My desk, I need to stand
<snap-l> AAIIIIUUUUGGGHHHH!!!
 * snap-l heads to shop.lenovo.com to calm down
<brousch> snap-l: please tell me you didn't eat the tin of green M&Ms rick_h left in his desk
<snap-l> brousch: Worse, I touched the Dr. Pepper
<snap-l> Diet Dr. Pepper
<brousch> noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
<tjagoda> Do you have Das Keyboard?
<tjagoda> omg
<tjagoda> Got a follow up email from canonical
<jjesse> yay>
<jjesse> i'm sorry there are already too many canonical employees that are a member of #ubuntu-us-mi we need to share the love to more user groups?
<tjagoda> Sounds like they want to communicate the scope and my expectations regarding the role.
<snap-l> tjagoda: Nice!
<snap-l> At least you got past the first hurdle
<rick_h> tjagoda: sweet
<rick_h> lamo, ok I feel better now https://twitter.com/#!/ganson/status/161799371313254401
<tjagoda> Praise the lords for google, and easy time zone conversion tools
<snap-l> rick_h: I desperately hope this is for the little children sent to buy mommy and daddy cigarettes.
<snap-l> because if not, I weep
<rick_h> hmmm, getting that urge to punch babies. How the !@#! do make files, buildout files, and all that crap actually work?
<snap-l> magic
<snap-l> What's the trouble with make files?
<rick_h> "something is building a build/js/yui directory...who is doing it?"
<snap-l> Got root on the machine?
<rick_h> "oh, so make runs some buildout stuff, buildout has tepmlates for bin-templates/xxx files that get put into /bin/xxx and then those get magically operated on by unicorns with directory variables back from the make files"
<snap-l> make the directories, run chmod 0000 on them as root, and see what blows up
<snap-l> Not elegant, but it should work
<Blazeix> ( http://www.snopes.com/photos/signs/expresslane.asp )
<rick_h> Blazeix: boooo quit messing with my happy bits of the day
<rick_h> :P
<Blazeix> heh
<snap-l> Blazeix: It's just a matter of time until it's a real sign
<snap-l> I firmly believe Idiocracy is a roadmap
<snap-l> "It's got what plant's crave!"
<snap-l> note the apostrophe usage. I feel stupider already.
<Blazeix> that movie has forever ruined the word 'electrolytes' for me.
<snap-l> ;)
 * krondor contemplates an order of brawndo 'the thirst mutilator' from http://www.brawndo.com/
<rick_h> who was it saying the path was php-> ruby ? https://twitter.com/#!/nbashaw/status/161891650166202368
<tjagoda> Hm
<tjagoda> I wonder how I can test my cell for inbound international calling.
<snap-l> tjagoda: Post your cell # on reddit and see what happens.
<snap-l> rick_h: I think that was either you or me
<snap-l> tjagoda: Or head into Ubuntu-COmmunity-Teams and ask someone in there to call you
<rick_h> can't believe I'm sitting down with a book on Make
<rick_h> snap-l: tell John to quit making the staples_dash tests fail :P
<rick_h> I must still be setup in there in jenkins, getting failed to build emails
<snap-l> Are you still getting e-mail? :)
<snap-l> Ugh
<rick_h> bah, note to self. Read the OReilly email BEFORE you buy the book so that you can use the fancy discount codes
<snap-l> whoops
<snap-l> Did you have the ebook version or the print version registered?
<rick_h> no, just bought a new ebook and then saw 20% off deals in their periodic email
<snap-l> Oh, nuts
<rick_h> yea, doh!
<snap-l> I usually make a trip to retailmenot.com for non dotd oreilly purchases
<snap-l> They're really good about keeping some form of special running
<brousch> your user groups should have a discount code
<rick_h> brousch: yea, I signed us up for it and forget to ever use it
<snap-l> We used to(?) not sure if we still do
<snap-l> rick_h: POst to discuss? :)
<rick_h> umm, no :P
<brousch> we hvae buy 1 get 1 free code DSUG2
<rick_h> yea, that one was in the email I read after buying
<brousch> write it down, use it
<rick_h> and a series of 20% codes for various conferences oging on
<rick_h> and our group code is 35% if I recall
<snap-l> rick_h: Why not? That might be useful information (for a change). ;)
<brousch> if i were smart i'd put them all in an evernote so i could find them easily
<brousch> save 40% on print books and 50% on ebooks with DSUG
<jrwren> im so happy that rick_h is going to be a make guru, now I can ask him stuff
<jrwren> rick_h: get the autotools stuff too
<snap-l> Yeah, rick_h, you should be able to make a configure file by hand when this is done. ;)
<jrwren> lol @ configure by hand.
<jrwren> that is NUTS
<snap-l> I've written one by hand (while looking at some examples). It's not fun.
<snap-l> I think I just gave up and tried to make the Makefile more intelligent
<jrwren> why?
<snap-l> been a while.
<snap-l> jrwren: why?
<jrwren> yes why?
<snap-l> which why? writing one by hand?
<jrwren> yes
<snap-l> Stupidity? Youthful exuberance?
<jrwren> fair enugh
<snap-l> Not knowing about how autotools worked
<snap-l> (that's the real reason)
<jrwren> right
<jrwren> that falls under stupidity and youthful exuberance :)
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> Hmm... seems __del__ is not called whenever I raise an exception
<snap-l> (python)
<llua> http://finance.yahoo.com/news/dell-oem-solutions-makes-available-140000419.html
<snap-l> interesting
<snap-l> Interesting too that they're calling SUSE the first Linux vendor to the Del OEM technology Partner Program
<brousch> i'm loving google chome apps lately. have one for evernote and google music
<Blazeix> brousch++, me too
<brousch> oh cool. in kubuntu i can set it to always open on a specific desktop maximmized
<brousch> so i can pin it to desktop 9 and it'll always be there
<Blazeix> under Awesome i basically have a tag per chrome web app, so I have my music workspace, email workspace, etc.
<brousch> yeah, so desktop 10 is google music app, 9 is evernote app
<brousch> by convention desktop 1 is my work browser crap, 2 is personal browser crap, 3 is pidgin, 4 is actual work
<Blazeix> so... "intenterface"
<brousch> eh?
<Blazeix> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/939
<brousch> blah
<mydogsnameisrudy> HUD hmmm
<tjagoda> ohi
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-01-25
<snap-l> Yay for updates that require reboots. :)
<snap-l> Wow,  might have another interview for OMC
<snap-l> on top of the one scheduled for tomrrow, and the one that I might have, were Jono able to get back with me.
<rick_h> snap-l: awesome
<rick_h> and morning and all that
<snap-l> MOrning. :)
<rick_h> Blazeix: lmorchard snap-l smoser widox reminder that CHC is LONG edition tonight 7pm
<snap-l> rick_h: Thanks!
<Wolfger> morning
<Wolfger> snap-l: interview? Trying to turn $NEW_JOB into $OLD_JOB already?
<brousch> eh? what'd i miss?
<rick_h> Wolfger: I think it's an OMC interview
<brousch> Some of you are Android devs, right?
<rick_h> krondor has messed with it some
<rick_h> I've looked, but not made anything
 * rick_h looks at the android book on the shelf
<mydogsnameisrudy> sudo apt-get remove -- purge Obama.gov
<snap-l> Wolfger: OMC = Open Metalcast
<Wolfger> ah, ok. Now that I know what OMC says, it all makes sense. :-)
<Wolfger> s/says/is/... I need more sleep :-P
<snap-l> heh. :)
<snap-l> OK, I need to be smacked.
<snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/iPIhYgNIg409vrOnbxKj/
<widox> rick_h: yay
<widox> just realized yesterday its the long edition
<Blazeix> snap-l: ow
<Blazeix> that joke is painful
<snap-l> Blazeix: ;)
<_stink_> brousch: ColonelPanic001 is an android dev.
<ColonelPanic001> wat
<ColonelPanic001> I build androids
<_stink_> bleep blorp
<brousch> http://anyvite.com/events/home/i5tavfrze2
<ColonelPanic001> why have I been summoned?
<ColonelPanic001> doth someone seek android knowledge?
<ColonelPanic001> I read "Rapidsparts" as "RapidSharts"
<Blazeix> brousch: you have three questions, and three questions only. choose wisely.
<_stink_> you don't open all links that brousch posts?
<_stink_> ColonelPanic001: --^
<ColonelPanic001> I rarely open links posted in IRC
<ColonelPanic001> I'm at work and stuff
<_stink_> silly
<_stink_> you can trust brousch
<ColonelPanic001> NEVER
<brousch> hah
<snap-l> I trust him like I trust the imgurl posts in #rgvc
<ColonelPanic001> ah. this sounds interesting, but it's in Grand Rapids.
<snap-l> ie: trust them to not be safe for work.
<brousch> of course it is. we have all the good stuff
<ColonelPanic001> and I have dinner with my parents this friday
<brousch> blow them off
<brousch> what have they done for you?
<snap-l> (lately)
<ColonelPanic001> I'd consider going otherwise though, this actually is something I'd like to learn. Not that I can't just read the docs, but all the same
<ColonelPanic001> good point
<ColonelPanic001> it's also a 3 hour drive, sayeth Google
<brousch> maybe 2.5 since it's right off I96
<ColonelPanic001> unless that event comes with sexual favors, I'm not driving 2.5 hours each way
<brousch> no wandering through town
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: Ask brousch after the meeting for those
<snap-l> ;)
<brousch> is that what your parents are giving you?!
<_stink_>  /join #ubuntu-us-mi-favors
<ColonelPanic001> no, but my parents are 2.5 hours away
<ColonelPanic001> that is a channel that needs to be joined
<snap-l> brousch: I believe ColonelPanic001 is the result of sexual favors.
<_stink_> :O
<ColonelPanic001> presumably.
<snap-l> God bless the internet.
 * snap-l is listening to some metal that will be in a future episode
<snap-l> Club Metal, likely
<brousch> i know it's a long shot. i just wanted to make sure you east siders saw it. krondor usually sees my g+ posts
<snap-l> but it's not industrial
<snap-l> More like The 69 Eyes
<snap-l> GrimFaith - Hearts and Engines (on Jamendo)
<rick_h> @#$#@ did crockford just invent doctests for JS? https://github.com/douglascrockford/JSDev/
<snap-l> rick_h: Looks that way. ;)
<rick_h> crockford, <3...but I'm going to b@#$ slap you
<snap-l> phah
<ColonelPanic001> blow?
<rick_h> sorry, pasted it in the middle of a split
<rick_h> rick_h> @#$#@ did crockford just invent doctests for JS?  https://github.com/douglascrockford/JSDev/
<ColonelPanic001> @#$#@ is rich princess leia
<ColonelPanic001> dollar sign for a head, cinnimon bun hair on the sides
<rick_h> !#$@#$@%^ then
<ColonelPanic001> Now she's just been shot by a storm trooper
<ColonelPanic001> you jerk
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: Let the wookie win. ;)
<ColonelPanic001> good advice
<snap-l> I don't understand the hatred some folks have for Avenged Sevenfold
<brousch> snap-l: seriously? they do $THAT_OBVIOUS_ANNOYING_THING ?
<ColonelPanic001> I think I listene dto them once or twice. They didn't stand out to me much, but they weren't bad, iirc
<brousch> 90%wa in top means my HD is my bottleneck. right?
<rick_h> ouch, this just took a shot at a couple of start ups http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2012/01/amazon-ties-in-house-disks-to-cloud-storage-for-backup-and-fast-access.ars
<rick_h> http://www.nasuni.com/ for instance
<snap-l> Hm, wonder what Amazon is calling me about
<snap-l> DIdn't leave a message
<ColonelPanic001> it wasn't important, then
<ColonelPanic001> probably just wanted to offer you the job of your dreams
<snap-l> Yeah, nothing big. ;)
<rick_h> hah
<rick_h> they want that ec2 billed paid!
<Blazeix> or amazon, as a company, decided to prank call snap-l.
<snap-l> WOnder if it's for AWS
<ColonelPanic001> probably just wanted to offer you the job of your dreams
<snap-l> Bah
<Wolfger> "We need a senior Java developer, and your name was given to us."
<rick_h> lol
 * Wolfger makes a note to refer Java headhunters to snap-l
<Wolfger> jjesse: there was a link the the original G+ posting? Huh. I completely missed that somehow.
<snap-l> Mmmmmmmmm.... leftover brisket from Lockharts. :)
 * rick_h runs over to snap-l's place
<snap-l> JoDee saw some Japanese BBQ on No Reservations, and had a hankering for BBQ last night
<rick_h> I knew I liked her :)
<snap-l> Nice! Oil Rush is finally out
<snap-l> I'd like to see if that will even run on my computer that already has trouble with the UNigine demos
<snap-l> rick_h: https://github.com/raganwald/homoiconic/blob/master/2011/12/jargon.md#readme
<rick_h> snap-l: I've got that on my screen to read at lunch
<rick_h> :)
<snap-l> Ah
<rick_h> I'm guessing the title is a bit flamebait
<snap-l> IT's not what you think it is.
<rick_h> yea, that's what I figured...oh well. I'm sure it'll get me ready to rant anyway :)
<snap-l> heh
<rick_h> *sigh* coffeescript...I'll refuse you for so long and one day have to write you...
<snap-l> heh
<rick_h> I really want to do more of this: http://devcenter.heroku.com/articles/python-faq
<Blazeix> hm, so is heroku completely free for low usage? that's pretty awesome
<rick_h> Blazeix: yea, exactly. And can run simple .wsgi apps really easily
<rick_h> I think I might try to move my pastebin there to play with it
<rick_h> but it's pgsql only, so my sqlite db of things would go boom
<rick_h> and wonder if PIL and such will work there
<rick_h> and then you can use: http://addons.heroku.com/
<rick_h> anyway, I love the idea of app engine, but heroku seems more of an app engine idea I can get behind
<Blazeix> hm, 5MB db only in the free version, that's a bit rough
<rick_h> yea
<Blazeix> but for free I shouldn't complain
<rick_h> right :/
<rick_h> it'd be sweet if I could get bookie to run there, but with all the special dependencies and the whoosh fulltext indexing it's not close to able to run
<snap-l> What's their price?
 * snap-l clicks the friendly Pricing link
<snap-l> WOw, that gets expensive for home use quick.
<rick_h> how so?
<snap-l> It's kinda confusing
<brousch> how does their free teir compare to GAE?
<rick_h> yea, it is
<rick_h> but anything cloud like that is
<rick_h> see recent crazy stuff with AE
<rick_h> brousch: basically the free stuff is a single cpu + 5mb of db
<brousch> 5MB? that's like 1 record
<rick_h> lol
<brousch> i store all my data as TIFFs
<rick_h> brousch: heh, then that's not a record, that's a file
<rick_h> and yea, no local files stored
<rick_h> so you'd probably not run that app there
<brousch> a tiff stored in the DB
<rick_h> booooooooooo
<brousch> the biggest problem with GAE is the nosql DB. if heroku has a real DB that would be a big advantage
<brousch> actually, 5MB would work well for the GRPUG web site. i should try it
<rick_h> brousch: yea, pgsql by default, with add ons for mysql, redis, mongo
<jrwren> heroku <3
<brousch> hm, now i'm not so sure about it
<brousch> jrwren is always on the opposite side of what i <3
<jrwren> really?
<jrwren> i thought we were agreeing.
<brousch> apple, ruby, dotnet
<snap-l> rick_h: Book club?
<snap-l> like book of the month club?
<snap-l> or Oprah's Book Club. ;)
<rick_h> snap-l: yea, talk of a canonical book club which seems interesting since I'm cranking through a few fiction books a month right now
<snap-l> Nice!
<jrwren> apple, ruby, dotnet via mono, I all <3
<jrwren> i'm jealous. I've not made time for fiction in a while.
<rick_h> yea, I've gone the other way, I've not read much tech but tons of fiction the last few months
<rick_h> nice to take the break
<brousch> your skills are stagnating!
<rick_h> yea, well it's been good though. lots of fiction and having fun, but also been getting lots of code written lately
<rick_h> and now I'm reading a book on Make...so I'm now doomed
<Blazeix> you should switch all over canonical from make to mk.
<Blazeix> s/over canonical/of canonical over/
<rick_h> dude, remind me at CHC to show you the LP make file tonight
<rick_h> that's part of the problem "Let's learn how this works by looking at this giant monstrosity of an example"
<rick_h> at least I know wtf PHONY means now
<Blazeix> hah, i've seen that word before.
<Blazeix> i can do the hello world of make files, but that's about it.
<jrwren> what fiction you reading?
<snap-l> He's reading something JoDee is reading (Pandora's Star)
<jrwren> by whom?
<snap-l> Peter F. Hamilton
<rick_h> http://www.goodreads.com/review/list/6943667-mitechie?shelf=currently-reading does that load?
<rick_h> http://www.goodreads.com/review/list/6943667-mitechie?shelf=read
<Wolfger> current fiction read: Making Money by Terry Pratchett
<Wolfger> it took getting a Kindle for me to feel sufficient shame about my dead tree books I never read to actually start reading them.
<snap-l> heh
<Wolfger> Read a few things on the kindle to get back in the reading habit, now I plan to switch between eBook and paperback until I've read the stack of unread books on my dresser
<Wolfger> if only I could trade the paper in for their ebook equivalents...
<Wolfger> "Look here. I bought your book, now I'd like to exchange it for this version that costs you virtually nothing to make me a copy of. You can even have the old one back and resell it."
<rick_h> some oreilly stuff you can "upgrade" to get a digital copy for $5
<Wolfger> le sigh
<Wolfger> Yeah, that's better than most publishers will do
<snap-l> press will let you upgrade for $10
<snap-l> Apress
<Wolfger> $10 is more than I spend on a book in the first place (still talking fiction)
<snap-l> Which is also why they're my first stop whenever I'm looking for a book on a particular topic
<snap-l> Wolfger: Yeah, there's no way around it
<snap-l> at least not currently
<snap-l> What disgusts me is when publishers price their material at hardback levels
<snap-l> $24.99 for an eBook that I can't sell afterward is way too much
<Wolfger> Oh wow. I just learned there was a made-for-TV movie of Going Postal. I'll have to see if I can find that
<Wolfger> Yeah, I won't pay hardcover prices for an ebook. That's just silly.
<Wolfger> I'll sooner not read your story and tell you why.
<Wolfger> still looking forward to the movie version of Wee Free Men
<Wolfger> hoping they don't turn them into smurfs
<snap-l> I'm looking for the movie version of The Decline And Fall of the Roman Empire. ;)
<snap-l> Or Pac Man: The Movie
<Wolfger> They're turning Asteroids into a movie, so (sad to say) Pac Man is likely your best bet.
<snap-l> Yeah, which is about as braindead as they come
<Wolfger> Doom. Street Fighter. Has there ever been a good, or even decent, video game movie?
<Wolfger> I'm betting "no", yet they keep making more.
<snap-l> Mortal Kombat was decent
<snap-l> not fantastic, but decent
<snap-l> but that's mostly because the game had a backstory outside of "you meet, you fight"
<Wolfger> I need to talk to a Hollywood producer, immediately.
<snap-l> Uh huh
<Wolfger> No more comic book movies or video game movies. The wave of the future is pinball movies.
<Wolfger> Black Knight
<snap-l> Jackbot
<snap-l> Pinbot
<snap-l> No Good Gophers
<snap-l> Oh, even better: Addams Family and Twilight ZOne. Those would be good pinball movies. ;)
<Wolfger> The one that showed the alligator in the fishing boat, whatever that was called
<Wolfger> Those were movie pinballs. You're working the wrong direction there.
<snap-l> No, I'm being an ass
<Wolfger> I'm being polite
<Wolfger> sad that as much as I loved pinball games, the only name I can remember is Black Knight. And, of course, Black Knight 2000
<Wolfger> back when 2000 was still the future
<snap-l> I love pinball
<snap-l> ex-friend had a bunch of machines
<snap-l> some machines I hadn't heard of before (Did you know Capcom made pinball machines?)
<jjesse> is there a good android pinball app?
<brousch> i kept windows nt around for years just for the pinball
<snap-l> PInball Hall of Fame is pretty good for console pinball
<snap-l> I like the Wii versions
<snap-l> Especially the Williams collection
<snap-l> Gottleib collection is decent as well, but there's a lot of games that I don't recognize
<snap-l> I think they had a version for iPhone, but not sure re: Android
<Wolfger> blasphemers!
<Wolfger> there's no such thing as "a good pinball app"
<Wolfger> pinball needs to be a physical game
<snap-l> Wolfger: I agree, but reality is you're not going to spend the $$ for a real table
<snap-l> and store it
<snap-l> I find the simulations that use an LCD screen to be fascinating
<Wolfger> with analog flippers where you can feel the ball hit, and let off a little bit to cushion the landing
<Wolfger> snap-l: the only real obstacle is storage space
<krondor> jjesse: http://www.androidguys.com/2011/04/19/pinball-apps-android/
<Wolfger> I would totally buy a pinball game if I had room to put it
<snap-l> Wolfger: They're like chips: you can't have just one.
<Wolfger> all I need is Black Knight
<snap-l> You and everyone else. ;)
<Wolfger> that got me through 3 years of college
<snap-l> That's like trying to find a non-repro Ms Pac Man or Galaga
<snap-l> You'll find it, but you won't want to pay for it. :)
<Wolfger> Hmm
<Wolfger> have to admit I haven't shopped
<snap-l> Last I heard, they were ~$1K
<Wolfger> Just need to set it up at $1 per play for the neighborhood kids...
<snap-l> Hah
<Wolfger> They'll probably be all, "What's *that*?"
<snap-l> kids don't understand pinball
<Wolfger> Need to force feed them some Happy Days
<snap-l> Oh, THAT'LL work
<Wolfger> ROFL
<Wolfger> I mean, uh, correctamundo
<Wolfger> then force feed them some MASH so they'll know why they should care about Tony Packo's
<snap-l> You're killing me here.
<krondor> "You have to use your hands? That's like a baby game!" -- Back to the Future 2
<rick_h> ok, bookie js building ported over to a make file from fabric
<rick_h> fast, and the ability to only fire if the files have changed is nice
<brousch> isn't that like selling your nissan leaf for a model T?
<rick_h> :)
<Blazeix> fabric isn't actually a build system, though, right? more of automation software?
<rick_h> right
<rick_h> but it's darn handy for creating tasks you run a lot
<rick_h> and that can have deps/code things to occur in pure python
<rick_h> plus ssh/remote execution if you want
<Blazeix> have you looked at the waf build system? it's pythony
<rick_h> no, waf and paver are supposed to be more python builds
<Blazeix> the only reason it's on my radar is because 'waf' are my initials :D
<rick_h> I've looked at paver (written by kevin dangoor of TG fame)
<rick_h> hah
<rick_h> this is more about LP uses Make and so I'm trying to figure it out
<rick_h> either I work with the current giant LP make file, or start small with stuff for bookie
<Blazeix> ah, right
<snap-l> Awesome! My sis-in-law is coming to Penguicon this year
<snap-l> assuming they have the registration / hotel page up soon. ;)
<rick_h> for anyone that knows anything of Make http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9009829/have-make-build-minimize-js-files-that-have-changed
<snap-l> rick_h: How are you invoking?
<rick_h> make
<snap-l> I wonder if the wildcards are messing up make
<snap-l> also, you don't have an all: directive
<rick_h> I'm sure that's some part of it right. I must need to use a make internal variable for it to pick up the files
<rick_h> snap-l: right, don't need it yet
<rick_h> make defaults to running the first item
<rick_h> the first item does all the combining
<rick_h> as it expands I'll do an all, but just extra garbage atm
<snap-l> $(BOOKIE_JS)/y*.js: $(JS_BUILD_PATH)/bookie
<snap-l> I think that might be the rule that's causing it to run all the time
<rick_h> right, I want that rule to only execute for changed files that match
<rick_h> but unsure how to do that
<snap-l> list each of the files. ;)
<rick_h> psh
<snap-l> http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920022886.do?imm_mid=07d33a
<Blazeix> boo jqtouch
<Blazeix> rick_h: floated that question out to some of my make-happy friends, hopefully someone will know the answer
<rick_h> Blazeix: thanks, end of the day it's not a killer
<rick_h> but it's messing with my "understanding" of how things should work
<snap-l> Every now and again Full Disclosure gives me a chuckle: http://lists.grok.org.uk/pipermail/full-disclosure/2012-January/085363.html
<Blazeix> rick_h: my friend answered your SO post
<rick_h> doh! see I knew I was missing some make-ism. Makes sense
<snap-l> Ah, that's cool
<snap-l> voted up
<rick_h> hah closer, now it just copied all of the files except the one I changed
<snap-l> Awesome. :)
<rick_h> ok, this seems to work
<rick_h> took some extra reorg
<rick_h> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/514/
<waldo323_> is chc at 7 today?
<Blazeix> waldo323_: yes
<waldo323_> thanks
<rick_h> ok, this part is hotness :) http://paste.mitechie.com/show/515/
<greg-g> rick_h: what is taking care of those runs?
<rick_h> greg-g: what?
<rick_h> greg-g: oh, I'm working on learning make and creating a makefile for some bookie stuff
<rick_h> one of the things I get annoyed with is that in development I run the app, the combo server for js, the sass css generator, and livereload
<rick_h> so turning that into a single make command :)
<greg-g> oh, those are gnumake? interesting
<rick_h> greg-g: yea
<rick_h> we use it for launchpad so I'm diving into actually learning wtf that gnu make magic crap is
<greg-g> cool
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-01-26
<brousch> i talked to a climate change and evolution denier tonight. it was truly frightening
<tjagoda> I'm in belief that climate is changing, but I also know that its changed like a ton of times in the history of the Earth
<tjagoda> And doubt that we as a group of humans can do much to stop it
<brousch> defeatist
<brousch> we have mad skills these days. we could put giant reflectors in space
<tjagoda> Can we reflect me more snow?
<_stink_> http://www.skepticalscience.com/10-Indicators-of-a-Human-Fingerprint-on-Climate-Change.html
<_stink_> there's another good link there about human causes, but i just closed FF.
<_stink_> tomorrow if you want it.
<tjagoda> I dont have doubt that we play a factor in speeding it along
<tjagoda> Just saying about the stopping/reversing of it
<tjagoda> I would be of genuine surprise if we could halt it
<tjagoda> If Michigan becomes a tropic zone however
<tjagoda> I would like a new planet =(
<brousch> I am enjoying this winter
<brousch> fuck snow
<Blazeix> brousch++
<tjagoda> </3
<tjagoda> I would live further south if I wanted 40 degree winters! =P
<brousch> Or I could just change global weather patterns and wait a few years
<brousch> easier than moving
<Blazeix> i'm out there every morning discharging aerosol cans. I'm doing my part.
<tjagoda> I can throw out my old fridge
<tjagoda> kill some ozone
<tjagoda> with the cfc's
<tjagoda> I am not going to enjoy waking up tomorrow
<tjagoda> Or today
<tjagoda> in 5.5 hours
<brousch> agreed, but my brain is still buzzing from earlier
<brousch> oh well, got my WMLUG slides ready
<Wolfger> morning
<Wolfger> brousch: switched to FF today from rekonq. Still seeing fairly low ram usage. Surprised. :-)   P.S. reKonq sucks.
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> Switching to FF from reKonq is like switching to FF from Opera
<mydogsnameisrudy> morning
<snap-l> everyone, without exception, will wonder why you stuck around with reKonq or Opera for that long
<rick_h> morning
<Wolfger> snap-l: I really wanted to use the KDE default browser... It's just too darned buggy. Lots of crashes and some ridiculously slow load times (may have been hotel wifi, but when I switched to FF it was much zippier)
<brousch> Wolfger: i had similar results
<brousch> and some pages would load the source instead of the page
<rick_h> that's the one I find funny
<rick_h> "I know you really wanted to see cnn.com, but check out how it's made!"
<Wolfger> Yeah, I remember you saying that. Still never experienced it.
<brousch> not feeling well today
 * Wolfger wonders what brousch did wrong...
<brousch> i don't know if it's bad mexican or i picked up some kidbug at playworld
<rick_h> I've got a kidbug me thinks. felt horrible Tues, better yesterday, I want to hide in bed for the day today
<Wolfger> probably the playground for virus incubators
<rick_h> stupid day care, paying for the privilege of getting attacked by every bug in the world
<brousch> i think i might puke for the first time in 25 years
<Wolfger> :-(
<Wolfger> well, if it's been 25 years, I don't feel *too* bad for you
<Wolfger> :-p
<brousch> my streak
<mydogsnameisrudy> ever messed with the config file on FF
<Wolfger> ever? Yes. Lately? No.
<snap-l> Maybe there's something going around in #ubuntu-us-mi, because my stomach is not happy with me today
<rick_h> ugh
<snap-l> I blame SOPA
<Wolfger> hah!
<Wolfger> stupid legislation makes us sick to our stomachs?
<snap-l> Yes
<_stink_> oo, i have a good reason to watch this channel closely today
<_stink_> to see if brousch's streak is broken
<Wolfger> I question your judgement as to good/bad
<_stink_> you are not the first.
<brousch> feels like a pool ball moving through my GI tract
<snap-l> brousch: Constipation?
<snap-l> Drink some water
<waldo323_> snap-l, it is the solar flares
<snap-l> Yeah, that's it.
<snap-l> http://www.modernperlbooks.com/mt/2012/01/avoiding-the-vendor-perl-fad-diet.html
<rick_h> people still use perl? :P
<snap-l> God, I'm an idiot. I'm running in tmux, and wondering why in vim it takes two keypresses to go back half-a-page (^B ^B)
<snap-l> never mind that ^B is what I've set for tmux's attention key (or whatever you call it)
<snap-l> Even better: it took me about a day to realize this.
<snap-l> At least tmux is gracious enough to not take ^B ^B to mean "swap with last workspace" like screen dows.
<brousch> rick_h and snap-l you familiar voices are helping to sooth my ills via the latest lococast
<rick_h> brousch: woot!
<snap-l> :)
<Wolfger> people still listen to lococast?
<Wolfger> ;-)
<rick_h> Wolfger: three I think, maybe 4
<Wolfger> so, not quite as popular as Perl...
<Wolfger> I liked lococast, but I just don't seem to keep up with any podcasts anymore.
<ColonelPanic001> same
<devinheitmueller> I love how every one of these conversations start:  "So I'm sure you guys have never heard of it before, but there's this Raspberry Pi thing, and it's super awesome.  It can run MythTV with essentially no new development, right?"
<devinheitmueller> Doh, wrong window.
<ColonelPanic001> HOW DARE YOU
<_stink_> hah
<devinheitmueller> ColonelPanic001: feel free to ban me then.  ;-)
<Wolfger> ROFL
<ColonelPanic001> it's not the banning you have to worry about, it's greg-g with his slapping
<devinheitmueller> fair enough.
<_stink_> what kind of slapping?
<ColonelPanic001> with a code of conduct
<Wolfger> oh noes!
<devinheitmueller> Don't apologize if you accidentally paste something to the wrong window?
<ColonelPanic001> I cower in terror whenever he's near, fearing his infamous Coc-slap
<Wolfger> way to kill a conversation, ColonelPanic001
<nullspace> so good news I got hostapd working on my thinkpad, changing out wifi cards on these things is huge pita
<ColonelPanic001> \o/
<ColonelPanic001> Pitas are delicous
<Wolfger> mmmm... pita....
<brousch> snap-l: check out overtone for making music http://overtone.github.com/
<brousch> basically you code your music in closure
<brousch> it was just on FLOSS Weekly and it seems right up your alley
<snap-l> brousch: interesting. Not sure what I could do with it. :)
 * snap-l is still kicking around his pysynth project in his mind.
<snap-l> Beauty, Ireland and Poland signed ACTA
<rick_h_droid> wooo man's weekend in effect
<snap-l> ?
<rick_h_droid> Shipped momma of to see her friend on AZ
<brousch> rick_h hitting the strip clubs?
<rick_h_droid> with the boy fo sho
<brousch> detroit science center is the bizomb
<rick_h_droid> I should look at that this weekend
<brousch> yes. it will blow his mind
<rick_h_droid> _stink_ what are you guys up to this weekend?
<_stink_> rick_h_droid: we're out of town on Saturday, but i think Sunday's open
<_stink_> you have anything in mind?
<rick_h_droid> they're open 12-6 Sunday. you guys up for a science center trip?
<rick_h_droid> naw nothing planned but thinking of getting out of the house some
<rick_h_droid> wish we would get some snow. got a pair of sleds but no snow to use them on
<brousch> we had like 3 sled days
<rick_h_droid> just sad so far
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-01-27
<snap-l> I'm OK with this no snow thing.
<tjagoda> I hate you.
<tjagoda> =(
<snap-l> Had an awesome interview.
<snap-l> Love it when I have an interview that makes me want to hang out with the band afterward.
<rick_h> very cool man, congrats
<tjagoda> I need to browse around launchpad in preparation for my 10 minute monday interview
<tjagoda> I'm gonna namedrop rick_h all the time.
<tjagoda> "We go clubbin' on the weekends, rick_h and I."
<rick_h> tjagoda: heh, not sure that's the best bet yet.
<tjagoda> I am kidding.
<tjagoda> Except the part about clubbing.
<tjagoda> Thats 300% truth.
<rick_h> woot! do do do dum dum dum clubbing
<tjagoda> http://r721.livejournal.com/10526.html
<tjagoda> Holy christ
<tjagoda> https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat
<tjagoda> ^ That is good.
<rick_h> yea, Gary is awesome
<rick_h> man, having co-workers in Australia sucks. I've been working late/early every night since I got back from budapest
<rick_h> don't they know it's dark outside?!
<jjesse> wow is there something making ou have those weird hours?
<rick_h> we started a group project in budapest we're trying to get landed still
<rick_h> and it was kind of my baby so I'm the goto for "this is broken, how do we fix it?"
<tjagoda> I wonder how often the support dudes travel
<rick_h> right now travel is near nil
<rick_h> unless you're the cloud folks really
<tjagoda> Surges up around UDS times probably?
<rick_h> it depends on where you're at. LP only sends one/two guys to UDS
<rick_h> unity guys go more often to get feedback/discuss that, etc
<tjagoda> Makes sense
<tjagoda> I am not opposed to travel
<tjagoda> But constant large trips would grate on me eventually I think
<rick_h> yea, it's cool. But I don't think you'd see a ton of it personally
<tjagoda> Like those roaming consultants who live out of suitcases 323 days out of the year
<rick_h> after pycon I think I'll be grounded the rest of the year
<tjagoda> I dont understand how thats possible
<rick_h> heh, like jjesse :)
<jjesse> hey i was only in a hotel 103 nights this year
<_stink_> damn
<jjesse> i think my high is 130?
<jjesse> so its down
<snap-l> tjagoda: Wow, that's disgusting
<jjesse> 2 weeks in a row is pretty doable, the 3rd week is hard
<jjesse> if i trail 4 weeks in a row I take my wife and sone w/ me
<tjagoda> Our ERP consultant
<tjagoda> Logged 300+ hotel days last year
<tjagoda> I think it was in the 330's
<jjesse> i have some co-workers like that
<jjesse> months on the road
<_stink_> god
<_stink_> i hope they don't know anyone
<jjesse> the head of our consultants joke that employees aren't allowed to either be married or marry :)
<tjagoda> Its insane
<tjagoda> you have to live in some kind of tiny condo or something
<tjagoda> there is no way you can afford to have a lawn with 330 hotel days =P
<greg-g> screw even renting, just stay in a hotel at "home" if you're only there 35 days/year
<jjesse> exactly
<greg-g> it'd be free with all your points, anyway
<jjesse> as long as you gt  all the bonuses :)
<tjagoda> I dont even comprehend that much travel logistically
<tjagoda> Laundry would be painful
<jjesse> not really most hotels will do it for you
<jjesse> dry clean etc
<tjagoda> This is news to me
<jjesse> it will cost you
<tjagoda> <--- obviously not a consultant
<jjesse> but they will take care of it
<snap-l> Ugh
<snap-l> I mean, morning
<rick_h> yea, TGIF
<snap-l> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112336 <- Hmmmm...
<mydogsnameisrudy> morning
<snap-l> Ordered
<rick_h> ooh, fancy case
<snap-l> Yeah, need some better airflow for this machine
<snap-l> Mobo is at 55c
<brousch> mostly better today
<rick_h> mostly better?
<brousch> me
<rick_h> ugh, lucky @!#$@
<brousch> i think it's intestinal blockage. moving slowly
<brousch> at least i can move today
<rick_h> oh yummy, my yogurt tastes a ton better now thanks
<brousch> had to cancel my presentation yesterday
<brousch> yogurt. damn that's a good idea
<brousch> i might run out and get some
<rick_h> yogurt and a piece of fruit, standard 150cal breakfast wheeee
<rick_h> though I think this weekend with the wife away the boy and I might go out and get some real breakfast out :)
<brousch> denny's?
<rick_h> naw, Mels, local place
<Wolfger> Mel's Diner? Say "hi" to Alice, Flo, and Vera.
<brousch> so you're gonna be skinnier than i am next time i see you?
<rick_h> Wolfger: yea, thuogh I don't think Alice is there
<Wolfger> also: Good morning
<rick_h> brousch: 206 on weigh in day wed. Lowest in about a decade for me
<Wolfger> also: today is going to be a Yakety Sax day, I can feel it...
<rick_h> hah
<Wolfger> rick_h: awesome!
<brousch> wow, i was 205 this morning, and that's because i lost like 5lbs yesterday
<rick_h> I think you're a little bit taller than me though
<Wolfger> 205, 206... I need to get way back down there again
<rick_h> but yea, by the time you see me next (release party maybe?) I'm hoping to be < 200 for the first time since college
 * snap-l whistles
<Wolfger> 205 is like my goal weight.
<brousch> congrats
<rick_h> if I can kill this damn cold and get back to the gym
<rick_h> ugh...sucky week
<snap-l> that's awesome, rick_h !
<snap-l> bah, bad timing on responses
<rick_h> hah! "Goooooo cold!"
<snap-l> http://openmetalcast.com/2012/01/27/open-metalcast-special-interview-episode-sentient-machine/
<rick_h> oh crap, touchpad on woot
<rick_h> and well...with HP actually starting to OSS some stuff...damn temptations
<brousch> i thought those were all gone
<brousch> ouch. $219
<rick_h> yea
<brousch> weren't they selling for $99?
<rick_h> yea
<brousch> is there a way to get a list of all packages installed on my computer, and turn that list into a script so that i could set up another computer the same way?
<brousch> all repos too
<brousch> like pip freeze for ubuntu
<rick_h> yea, dpkg -l
<rick_h> http://www.ubuntugeek.com/clone-your-ubuntu-installation.html
<tjagoda> Ohi
<tjagoda> http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/397380_298633056849285_250800231632568_835023_1997772699_n.jpg
<brousch> that doesn't get the PPAs
<brousch> but it's a good start
<rick_h> brousch: yea, but how many ppas do you have?
<brousch> half a dozen
<brousch> deadsnakes, chrome, handbrake, medibuntu, ubuntuone-extras, google music
<tjagoda> What is the lpstat switch to show connection details for printers?
<tjagoda> Does brousch live in cups?
<brousch> heck no
<tjagoda> Got it.
<tjagoda> -s works.
<tjagoda> Brousch uses windows print services?
<brousch> my computers print to the printers
<rick_h> snap-l: ever seen anything that looked like it'd be fun for a 2yr old to drum on?
<rick_h> the boy is requesting B.B. King and likes to "bang bang drum!"
<tjagoda> I like to pose questions and then immediately leave the room.
<brousch> rick_h: my son liked those cheap plastic drum sets
<brousch> they last about 6 months, but they're fun
<brousch> tjagoda: i noticed
<brousch> tjagoda: my computers print directly to our networked printers
<brousch> rick_h: you can see he was getting a little big for them at age 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvgj40zQtEU
<rick_h> hah!
<rick_h> thinking of getting this: http://www.amazon.com/Remo-Rhythm-Club-Floor-Tom/dp/B0002EB5JO/ref=pd_bxgy_MI_img_c
<tjagoda> brousch: I like that he rolls with the cymbals upside down
<brousch> someone linked to one of those a few weeks ago
<brousch> it looks like it has a real head, could be loud
<rick_h> brousch: yea, reviews are solid, might try that out and see where he goes with it
<brousch> cheap
<brousch> inexpensive i should say
<rick_h> yea, exactly, first start to see
<tjagoda> I also like that he rolls with the golf club
<rick_h> they must have something at day care because he comes home talking about "bang bang drum!"
<tjagoda> You're breeding him to be a Tiger Woods rockstar hybrid
<brousch> tjagoda: he was always losing his drum sticks
<tjagoda> lol
<tjagoda> "Lose THIS."
<rick_h> man, the abuse that drum set must have taken over time...
<brousch> all of the toms broke off
<tjagoda> He just destroys the cymbal over and over again, its awesome
<brousch> he went through 2 or 3 of those cheap sets
<brousch> fun times
<tjagoda> better than destroying the pots/pans I imagine
<brousch> now he has a real drum set and it's so loud we listen from a floor away
<brousch> he started with pots and pans. used to drag them all out on the floor, line them up, and go to town with a wooden spoon
<snap-l> rick_h: We got my little niece something similar
<snap-l> let me find the link
<snap-l> http://www.amazon.com/Remo-Percussion-Diameter-Mallet-Forest/dp/B0002F7KUG/ref=pd_sim_t_18
<snap-l> It's pretty solid, and comes with two mallets.
<rick_h> snap-l: ah very cool
<snap-l> The tone is a little "off", but it's a quality instrument
<snap-l> at the least, it'll take some doing for him to undo it.
<brousch> oh this is awesome http://www.droid-life.com/2012/01/26/after-update-googles-music-manager-allows-download-of-all-your-music-straight-from-the-cloud/
<snap-l> brousch: Nice!
<brousch> now i can pull my music out of my dropbox backup
<snap-l> brousch: How is George doing with his drumming?
<brousch> snap-l: very good
<brousch> he has been addicted to the 20th century fox fanfare and first song of star wars for a few weeks now. he's really getting them down
<snap-l> Hah
<brousch> he brings his laptop downstairs, cranks it up, and plays along with youtube videos
<snap-l> drum-corps.
<snap-l> When he's old enough, and still interested, definitely check those out
<brousch> also wii music has a dedicated drum set using the wii fit pad. it's pretty cool
<snap-l> I never did those (was in marching band instead), but from what I've heard, they'll give you some wicked chops
<snap-l> brousch: I managed to pass on Wii Music. Is it fun?
<brousch> i'm aweful at it, but george and my wife do well
<snap-l> Heh
<brousch> awful
<brousch> though really how bad i am can inspire awe
<snap-l> Oh c'mon. :)
<snap-l> You just need practice. ;)
<brousch> you mean check out this thing? http://www.dci.org/corps/
<brousch> i'm not bad at the cowbell
<snap-l> Something similar
<snap-l> Not sure how much they have local
<snap-l> and not necessarily the competitive aspect (that might kill off the enthusiasm)
<snap-l> Wow, so my order already has a tracking number from NewEgg
<snap-l> why again would I pay $2.99 for the expedited order packaging?
<snap-l> Though I'm a little annoyed that UPS won't let me track it yet (even if just to say "hey, we just have the order"
<nullspace> snap-l: might not have reached a UPS center yet
<nullspace> I'm waiting on my replacement keyboard for my T60,.. apprently it's coming from china because it's taking 2-3weeks
<nullspace> my e key plastic spring broken in half, ... eh 7+ years of abuse...
<brousch> nullspace: you've been abusing E for 7 years? you must be a fun guy to hang out with
<snap-l> ;)
<snap-l> nullspace: Yeah, better to replace the whole keyboard than try to replace those plastic springs
<snap-l> those are a PITA
<nullspace> yum pita .....
<tjagoda> Makes you yearn for the 50's, those plastic springs.
<tjagoda> A time where everything was made of solid metal, and then coated in asbestos.
<tjagoda> Ahhhh...
<brousch> then dipped in mercury before being painted with lead
<tjagoda> And summarily used as water pipe.
<nullspace> awesome, update decided to break xlock, sucktastic
<brousch> judging by the name, that is a screensaver locker?
<brousch> so i assume the update addresses the recent bug where you could unlock any linux computer with a certain key combo
<tjagoda> lol
<tjagoda> Yay security
<tjagoda> Still better than old school windows passwords, where the cancel button is actually just a bypass button
<snap-l> nullspace: Considering the update was to improve security for X, I'm not surprised.
<tjagoda> Ubuntu is just painfully ripping bandaids off for you
<tjagoda> Your welcome!
<tjagoda> You're*
<rick_h> wasn't that the problem? There was some quick/easy way to bypass the xlock screen?
<nullspace> rick_h: I saw that but could never reproduce it
<snap-l> http://trollitc.com/2012/01/the-five-foot-square/
<snap-l> And now you know.
<snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/fossworldproblems/comments/ozc8i/every_recruiter_wants_me_to_convert_my/
<greg-g> snap-l++
<snap-l> Wolfger: http://jobs.perl.org/job/15446
<Wolfger> nifty
<jrwren> anyone know what kind of disk image testdrive creates?
<brousch> i would assume virtualbox, but i am just assuming
<snap-l> Gah, just realized that the connection I had my headphones wasn't tight. Was wondering why it sounded like everything was out of phase.
<rick_h> snap-l: heh, I had that yesterday "damn I'm having to crank this volume up...wtf"
<snap-l> rick_h: Well, even better: I just TOUCHED the back of this machine, and it corrected.
<snap-l> I eagerly await whatever bad-ground is in store for me. ;)
<tjagoda> Random disconnect?
<tjagoda> Did anybody else get that?
<rick_h> net split
<brousch> geezumpete. no wonder people don't like to develop for android http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2012/01/say-goodbye-to-menu-button.html
<tjagoda> Ahh
<tjagoda> I suddenly became concerned for the health of my T1's.
<snap-l> brousch: If you think that is bad, think of being an Apple Developer sometime. :)
<brousch> they don't do things like remove the menu button
<snap-l> No, they don't giv you a menu button to start. :)
<brousch> i assume they give you standard way to access a "menu"
<snap-l> No, they give you an action-bar-alike
<snap-l> don't remember what it's called offhand
<snap-l> I can see why they're getting away from menu thought
<snap-l> It's a catch-all command
<brousch> well that's fine. it's just that changing something as basic as the menu button is silly
<tjagoda> ...like replacing menus with a HUD for searching commands? =(
<brousch> indeed
<tjagoda> Brousch wants his good ol' gnome
<snap-l> I don't see the big deal, personally.
<tjagoda> All these new-fangled user interfaces
<brousch> i have it. it's called KDE with two panels
<snap-l> menu feels very lazy to me
<tjagoda> I will have to see how HUD works.
<tjagoda> I'm very used to reading menus to figure out what I need to do
<snap-l> tjagoda: ++
<tjagoda> just trying to formulate my needs into words could become tiresome
<snap-l> WEll, I'm reserving judgement until I see it
<brousch> these are the internets. you are free to judge with no knowledge
<snap-l> I'm just waiting for the NEXTStep clock as Unity Lens.
<The_Machine> anyone here happen to hear some jet planes or something flying overhead in the middle of the night?
<The_Machine> around 1:30 AM or so
<snap-l> It's just the black helicopters doing maneuvers over your house
<snap-l> pay them no mind
<brousch> The_Machine: it was obama arriving
<The_Machine> oh it was?
<brousch> i assume
<The_Machine> scared the shit out of me
<snap-l> and unless they came through the front door, I would not have heard them
<The_Machine> they went for 30 mins
<The_Machine> and were circuling
<The_Machine> circling even
 * The_Machine doesn't know why he's retarded
<brousch> usually it's genetic
<snap-l> The_Machine: It's likely patrolling airspace
<The_Machine> yea.  wow.  They were right over our house several times.
<brousch> cripes: http://developer.android.com/design/style/writing.html
<rick_h> snap-l: you're my resident gpg expert
<rick_h> snap-l: I want to sign a .tar.gz and I want to tell it which key to use?
<rick_h> I don't see any flag for saying "using this key"
<snap-l> Do you only have one key in the keyring?
<snap-l> usually if I have more than one, it'll prompt
<rick_h> yea, I've got a sub key of my main that's my work email
<rick_h> I want to sign it iwth my work email
<rick_h> hmm, actually it's not a sub I don't think
<snap-l> Huh, that's weird. Just signed a file, and it used the first one.
<rick_h> but yea, not giving me the option
<rick_h> right
<snap-l> Man page says you can set it using --default-key or --local-user
<snap-l> but that'll just tell it which to select as the default
<snap-l> so it can be changed, but it looks like it's on a per-instance basis
<snap-l> ie: if you have to change repeatedly, it'll be a PITA.
<rick_h> ok, that'll work for now
<jrwren> qcow2 is default testdrive disk image.
<jrwren> there i go disagreeing with brousch again :p
<brousch> see!
<brousch> wow, never heard of that one
<brousch> apparently i have not been freetarded enough with my virtual machines
<jrwren> apparently not :)
<jrwren> <3 kvm
<Wolfger> http://marquee.blogs.cnn.com/2012/01/27/welcome-back-kotters-robert-hegyes-has-died/?hpt=hp_t3
<Wolfger> Part of me is waiting for him to show up tomorrow with a note saying "Please excuse his absence yesterday. He died. Signed, Epstein's Mother."
<snap-l> Wolfger: heh
<snap-l> Man, Sphix is making me feel like a bad developer
<snap-l> using automodule to create documentation automatically, but what's coming back is pretty bad
<snap-l> that's assuming anything comes back at all.
<snap-l> That, and not using "if __name__ == '__main__'" for determining of something is called directly.
 * snap-l hangs head in shame.
<rick_h> lol
<rick_h> whip snap-l into shape
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-01-28
<rick_h> anyone heard of some tech stuff called "tlc report"?
<snap-l> Nope
<rick_h> k, my favorite friend of my wife seems to think I must know it if I'm truly a real tech person
<snap-l> Sounds like Infoworld
<snap-l> THere's a WWE TLC report
<snap-l> Teaching, Learning, and Computing?
<rick_h> the learning channel :)
<rick_h> who knows, quick good finds all kinds of crazy stuff
<snap-l> Oh fuck me
<rick_h> I was hoping to avoid that :)
<snap-l> Does she also think that real mechanics listen to Car Talk with Klik and Klak?
<rick_h> probably
<rick_h> this is the friend I can't stand
<snap-l> gathered
<snap-l> I love it when people put more faith in TV or radio guy than the people who actually know real things
<rick_h> yea, fun stuff
<jrwren> rick_h: you don't consume the news, you make the news.
<jrwren> if your buddy can't see that, fuk him.
<jrwren> you are rick fucking harding, damnit!
<rick_h> hah
<rick_h> I hate that stage when you realize you need to turn off the computer, but your so close to making it work!
<jrwren> i'm terrible at that too.
<jrwren> i hate the next day when I get it in teh first 5-30min after I had spent 3-5hrs on it the day before :p
<rick_h> dammit, this has tests and should work...wtf I say
<rick_h> you're probably right, just need to step away
<rick_h> bah, probably because I'm doing too much magical crap.
<rick_h> there we go
<Blazeix> TLC support? tender loving care?
<Blazeix> tnder loving care while poo-pooing django, jquery and doctests
<Blazeix> take that, oxford comma
<mydogsnameisrudy> morning ..
<rick_h> morning
<brousch> yes
<snap-l> morning
<rick_h> first sledding day is a success, now to go fall over and die
<brousch> ahahahah
<snap-l> rick_h: Awesome!
<snap-l> rick_h: btw: you might want to call the Detroit Science Museum beforehand
<snap-l> they may be closed because of no $$
<brousch> sheat
<brousch> their web page says they're closed
<brousch> it was busy when we went, and expensive
<snap-l> Also, how's about those new Google terms of service?
<tjagoda> FUCK THOSE
<tjagoda> Mainly, the reminders every 8 seconds
<brousch> rick_h snap-l your flamefest for the day http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/p03yh/sqlalchemy_vs_django_db/
<brousch> jcastro: thanks ;) http://askubuntu.com/questions/9135/best-way-to-backup-all-settings-list-of-installed-packages-tweaks-etc
<greg-g> interesting read: http://lists.busybox.net/pipermail/busybox/2010-December/074114.html
<rick_h> snap-l: thanks for the heads up
<rick_h> greg-g: yea, that's going around the list. Interesting
<rick_h> oh WTF! brousch I'm to sick to get worked up over SA idiots
<rick_h> "SQLAlchemy seems like it's still in its infancy" my !@#@!
<snap-l> Seriously, if you're happier with Django's ORM, go be happy
<snap-l> and then when you're busy trying to figure out why shit broke, please remember you were happy once.
<tjagoda> eek
<tjagoda> 380Mb of updates
<tjagoda> Thats alotta patches.
<brousch> tjagoda: welcome to kde!
<tjagoda> heh
<rick_h> ok, thinking of visiting the ethan allen store for floor lamps was a mistake
<tjagoda> That sounds like an expensive floor lamp.
<brousch> my son is enjoying his first pop rocks. the dog not so much
<tjagoda> The wind here feels as if it could blow my house away.
<rick_h> lol
<brousch> wow, been playing too much mario bros wii. i just tried to jump my cursor up to break a tab in pidgen
<tjagoda> Both depressing and awesome.
<snap-l> heh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-01-29
<rick_h> phew, the boy's in bed, the kitchen is clean
<rick_h> bookie hacking time!
<brousch> nap time!
<brousch> boy is in bed at 7:15?
<rick_h> yea, thankfully that sledding wore him out and I got a good nap time today
<rick_h> yea, 7pm is his usual bed time
<rick_h> up at 6am
<brousch> wow
<brousch> we're lucky if we get 8PM and up at 5:45
<rick_h> ugh, 5:45 is too early
<rick_h> well he's two
<rick_h> and it's starting to curb bit by bit. It used to be 7->7
<tjagoda> When bookie is massive and successful, can I run the business side of your company, rick_h? =P
<rick_h> heh, I'll ring you in 2020
<rick_h> by then things might work in whatever language is cool then
<tjagoda> When its written in four languages and is so complex that Rick is the only man whom can understand it.
<rick_h> heh, hopefully things are getting easier vs harder
<rick_h> bit by bit at least
<rick_h> morning
<brousch> ug. too much snow
<brousch> i think 4" this morning, and it's going strong
<rick_h> you suck
<rick_h> that snow we had yesterday during sledding was mostly gone by afternoon
<brousch> this is heavy stuff. pack down well for sledding
<brousch> roads are nasty though
<brousch> i video recorded some of the talks this week. re-encoding and uploading is painful. takes forever
<brousch> HD
<brousch> i can see now why people have things like render farms
<rick_h> heh
<snap-l> OK, what's the way to get Unity to play nicely with Wine applications and Blender?
<snap-l> I remember there was some CCSM setting, but I can't remember for the life of me what tht was.
<snap-l> or is the answer to stop trying and just run fucking Windows.
<brousch> the answer is sudo apt-get install kubuntu-desktop
<rick_h> brousch: gets +1 helpful point
<brousch> out of a possible 1000?
<brousch> ooooh http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/12/01/29/1422244/new-spark-tablet-to-come-loaded-with-kdes-active-plasma-interface
<rick_h> brousch: yea, they were commenting on that on OMG ubuntu about some tablet concept someone made up
<rick_h> "At least the kde one is real..."
<brousch> supposedly i can put ubuntu on the nook color
<rick_h> yea, because all those ubuntu apps will work great with touch :)
<brousch> kubuntu :P
<rick_h> yep, because kgimp is more touch friendy than gimp :P
<rick_h> how's kunderbird working for you?
<rick_h> or kwibber?
<brousch> people actually use gwibber?
<brousch> gmail and hootsuite
<rick_h> supposedly, isn't it the core of the "social ubuntu desktop"?
<brousch> and gimp on a tablet?
<rick_h> come on, one of the big iPad things is garage band and movie editor
<rick_h> you'll never tweak phots on a tablet? :)
<rick_h> anyway, I'm being partially fecisios if I could spell it right
<brousch> i don't know what kde uses for image editing
<brousch> but isn't shuttleworth trying to make all that stuff touch friendly?
<brousch> http://www.kde.org/applications/graphics/krita/
<brousch> looks less annoying than gimps window panels floating everwhere
<brousch> hm, part of koffice
<tjagoda> I do hate the multi-panel design of GIMP.
<brousch> i think we have gotten 6" today so far
<brousch> MAKE IT STOP
<rick_h> go go go, ship it over here
<rick_h> we're getting a light sprinkling
<snap-l> bah, no no no no
<snap-l> no shoveling
<rick_h> bah, shoveling is good for you
<snap-l> no shoveling
<snap-l> no shoveling
<snap-l> no shoveling
<rick_h> excercise
<snap-l> no shoveling
<snap-l> no shoveling
<snap-l> no shoveling
<rick_h> no need to go to the gym
<snap-l> I'm working on making my ass into a perfect sphere.
<rick_h> it's nice, quiet, put some headphones on, listen to a book
<rick_h> though I have to wait until nap time or the boy goes to bed before I can do it
<rick_h> come on monday night, momma comes back phew
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> What's the command to write debug messages to the logs in PHP?
<snap-l> it's been a while
<snap-l> Grrr, having trouble distributing ogg files with nginx.
<tjagoda> Its supposed to rain tomorrow
<tjagoda> and mess up our wimpy 2 inches of snow
<tjagoda> =(
<brousch> snap-l: why are you messing with php?
<brousch> wtf. a single lego star wars c3-po is like $6
<brousch> come on
<brousch> silliness. this set is $20 at Target. is amazon bonkers? http://www.amazon.com/LEGO-Star-Wars-R2-D2-Escape/dp/B00005BTRW
<rick_h> brousch: heh, looks like none are sold by amazon
<rick_h> collectable? is this some sort of limited thing?
<tjagoda> I own the lego Millennium Falcon
<tjagoda> Need to finish building it so I can mark it up and then sell it on e-bay as fully assembled.
<snap-l> brousch: Trying to sort out why OMC is only serving mp3 files via the feeds
<rick_h> heh love it, see this interesting question on my SA feed, check it out, second answer starts to sound very familiar
<rick_h> "that's kind of what I'd say..."
<rick_h> oh...it was me. This question is from 2010 wtf
<brousch> sheesh
<rick_h> greg-g: oops :)
<greg-g> rick_h: :)
<snap-l> ?
<rick_h> snap-l:
<rick_h> https://twitter.com/#!/g_gerg/status/163723397455552513
<snap-l> Yeah, I caught that.
<snap-l> Interesting. :)
<brousch> whew, been cooking all day trying to use my organic veg before they go bad
<greg-g> brousch: :)
<brousch> i was gone or sick 4 nights this week, so i have a stockpile
<brousch> this service has really changed my salads. i used to eat iceberg lettuce, carrots, maybe spinach. now i make romaine + chard + dandelion greens + arugala + carrots + sunflower seeds + craisins
<rick_h> brousch: yum
<snap-l> Gah, /me just realized I haven't picked up obZen
<rick_h> obzen?
<snap-l> Meshuggah's 2008 album
<rick_h> oic
<brousch> meshuggah?
<snap-l> brousch: Don't play
<snap-l> If you're serious, I'll dig up some clips
 * rick_h whistles
<brousch> don't play?
<snap-l> Now ya done it
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qc98u-eGzlc
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4A_tSyJBsRQ
<snap-l> ^- this is the best video ever
<brousch> PG?
<snap-l> Second is, not sure about the first
<snap-l> Timely: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=347172
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-01-21
<rick_h_droid> party
<snap-l> rick_h_droid: heh
<snap-l> http://blackcirclerecords.bandcamp.com/track/the-body-of-a-brazilian-transexual-for-suzanne-moore <- FML
<greg-g> rick_h_droid, rick_h_ : dude, I got the best thing in the world today, my grandpa's old wooden woodworking toolchest/box (he was a carpenter).
<snap-l> Nice!!!!
<greg-g> yeah, working on importing/touching up the photos now :)
 * snap-l is having his face ripped off by some Italian Medieval metal
<snap-l> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0B1k4b4lMvM
<snap-l> http://adplenitatemlunae.bandcamp.com/album/tempus-non-est-iocundum
<greg-g> uploading :)
<snap-l> http://semanticsaturation.bandcamp.com/track/stardust
<snap-l> Holy Fuck
<snap-l> Shant Hagopian - Guitars
<snap-l> Derek Sherinian - Keyboards
<snap-l> Virgil Donati - Drums
<snap-l> Ric Fierabracci - Bass
<snap-l> I will shit myself silly if this is released completely under a CC license.
<greg-g> rick_h_droid: rick_h_ snap-l : the toolchest: http://goo.gl/47rg6
<snap-l> Woah
<snap-l> THat's awesome.
<greg-g> photo of my mom (his daughter) with it (for size): http://www.flickr.com/photos/grggrssmr/8400050155/in/photostream
<greg-g> rick_h_: snap-l http://blog.grossmeier.net/2013/01/20/grandpas-tool-chest/
<rick_h_> greg-g: awesome
<rick_h_> greg-g: that looks so cool
<rick_h_> greg-g: http://blog.lostartpress.com/category/books-in-print/the-anarchists-tool-chest/ yea, definitely a toolbox. Some tool chest designs
<rick_h_> http://blog.lostartpress.com/2012/08/13/refurbishing-a-tool-chest/
<rick_h_> http://blog.lostartpress.com/2012/08/24/the-traveling-anarchists-tool-chest/
<rick_h_> I'm debating on trying to build either http://blog.lostartpress.com/2013/01/11/a-quick-tour-of-the-dutch-tool-chest/ or http://blog.lostartpress.com/2012/02/18/anarchists-tool-chest-on-the-woodwrights-shop/
<snap-l> Well, it was too good to be true:
<rick_h_> ruh roh
<snap-l> https://twitter.com/squeekyhoho/status/293336347144511488
<snap-l> Also, keyboard is scheduled for Friday
<snap-l> Not sure JoDee can last that long. ;)
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> https://twitter.com/squeekyhoho/status/293341665501003776
<snap-l> Lemons -> Lemonade
<snap-l> Looks like the UPS on this computer at work is having issues
<snap-l> came in to find it "overloaded"
<snap-l> even though there wasn't much plugged in or even operational
<snap-l> apparently it is something to do with the fans connected to it.
<brousch> We had 3 UPSes wigging out today too
<brousch> Must have been a very brief power outage here
<rick_h_> ugh
<jrwren> snap-l: so did you snag all the material from bandcamp while it was marked CC ?
<jrwren> their mistake is your added freedom!
<snap-l> jrwren: No, I didn't.
<snap-l> And frankly I'd rather save my resources for folks who "get it".
<snap-l> Would have been awesome though if they had, but there is still time. The project isn't signed to a label.
<snap-l> I doubt they'll reconsider, but you never know.
<snap-l> You get nothing if you don't ask.
<jcastro> hey snap-l
<jcastro> do you own drums at this point in time?
<jcastro> n0p: are you off today?
<n0p> nope, working
<jcastro> n0p: we need to find time to jam bro
<snap-l> I have a drum set that needs reskilling
<snap-l> reskinning, too. ;)
<snap-l> The heads are over 10 years old.
<snap-l> Just give me a few days notice, I'll get some new heads.
<jcastro> well, that's 2 people
<jcastro> n0p: *cough*
<n0p> eh, i have so much to do on my house, and so out of practice.. :-/ soonest i see myself having fun is summer time
<jcastro> man have you ever heard me play?
<jcastro> I am the worst one
<jcastro> it could be like stress relief
<jcastro> plus "crappy" for flav is like awesome for the rest of us
<rick_h_> http://r.bmark.us/u/bd898d5cbe1711 is interesting in the Ubuntu/Obama combination of things.
<rick_h_> "When I was at Threadless, it was all physical boxes and it was RHEL, I wanted to kill myself!" :P
<jcastro> Request Time: 0.374
<jcastro> nice metric!
<snap-l> TIL: There was a //e Platinum: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Apple_Platinum_IIe.jpg
<rick_h_> hah, well that's just how long it took my app to d/l the original article
<snap-l> Man, Apple made some sexy hardware.
<brousch> snap-l: They still do
<rick_h_> *sigh* 2minutes on the bootstrap mailing list and I'm already afraid. Damn people that don't know how things work :/
<snap-l> rick_h_: Twitter makes it, so it must be automatic.
<brousch> I didn't like bootstrap. It requires grbage in your HTML
<Wolfger> call me way behind the times, but Precise Pangolin isn't the latest release, is it?
<snap-l> It's the latest LTS release
<snap-l> 12.04
<snap-l> Work is starting on Raring Ringtail
<snap-l> 13.04
<snap-l> Quantal Quetzal was 12.10
 * snap-l really hopes he can win $$ for knowing these things someday.
<Wolfger> Just wondering why I only upgraded to Precise today, and didn't upgrade a second time. It's because Kubuntu is dead, isn't it? :-p
<brousch> No. LTS does not automatically upgrade
<Wolfger> oh
<brousch> You need to explicitly tell it to upgrade to non-LTS
<brousch> Kubuntu is the best Ubuntu
<Wolfger> always was
<brousch> Well, server might be better
<Wolfger> I'm annoyed with package management and/or k3b. Every time I run k3b it tells me packages can be installed for additional functionality. It's always the same package (mp3) and I always say yes and it always says it successfully installed. :-/
<brousch> Wolfger++
<Wolfger> installed lame manually, now can rip to mp3, but still getting same freaking message
<brousch> Yes. Evr time
<snap-l> Anyone else having problems with Dropbox saying it Can't find Dropbox folder?
<snap-l> s/find/access/
<snap-l> I managed to clear that message out yesterday with a reboot, and now it's back
<brousch> Mine seems OK
<snap-l> I'd rather not have to reboot
<snap-l> and the only info I found made mention of redoing grub
<snap-l> Which makes me wonder what the hell grub would have to do with Dropbox.
<brousch> geez
<brousch> yeah
<brousch> At worst I would think uninstall/reinstall dropbox
<snap-l> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2078554
<snap-l> Good ol' ubuntuforums
<snap-l> I swear I'd block 'em forever if they didn't turn up the occasional nugget.
<snap-l> I tried reinstall
<jcastro> snap-l: try blowing away .dropbox
<jcastro> (not .dropbox-dist)
<jcastro> and then restarting it
<snap-l> won't that cause problems?
<jcastro> actually, close it, remove the directory, and then restart it
<jcastro> it'll need to reindex and so on
<jcastro> but it's like, an equivalent of a clean install for db
<snap-l> I moved it to .dropbox.old
<snap-l> ARGH!
<snap-l> Still says it can't access dropbox folder.
<snap-l> What the hell
<jcastro> huh
<jcastro> what's the permissions on it?
<snap-l> 700 with me as the owner
<snap-l> 770 = same result
<snap-l> The infuriating part is it was working just fine until it wasn't
<jrwren> jcastro: fun with fanzoo on wednesday?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-01-22
<snap-l> Man, Elite Keyboards is sloooooow.
 * snap-l wishes they sold via Amazon Prime.
<snap-l> greg-g: You're not going to believe this.
<snap-l> Remember tha band I posted about yesterday re: being bummed the album wasn't released under a CC license?
<snap-l> Guess who just got done writing them about the CC license because they wanted to know more?
<greg-g> snap-l: nice! good luck ;)
<Wolfger> CC:FTW
<snap-l> i'll be surprised if anything comes of it, but it's better than nothing.
<snap-l> https://www.dndclassics.com
<snap-l> Looks like a soft launch of titles, but yay nonetheless.
<rick_h_> freaking brrrrr
<rick_h_> ok, who can point me to something that explains wtf "request annotation" is as it concerns web app controllers?
<rick_h_> jrwren: widox Blazeix ^ ?
<snap-l> rick_h_: I'm seeing a lot of Spring stuff associated with that.
<rick_h_> yea, my google fu is coming up with a bunch of stuff, but nothing jumping out that says why someone would file that bug against our code
<widox> rick_h_: can't say that I've heard of it
<widox> some annotation that specifies a uri that matches a controller method?
<snap-l> Seems an awful roundabout way of putting it
<rick_h_> so this is in the context of our db connection to use for the request
<widox> hm, I dunno about that
<rick_h_> ok, I found the guy and bugged him about it
<rick_h_> basically he wants to have request.db vs from app.models import getdb; getdb()
<rick_h_> so by request annotation he means custom property on the request object itself in the view
<snap-l> Why didn't he just say so?
<snap-l> ;)
<snap-l> n0p: http://www.indiegogo.com/protestthehero
<jrwren> rick_h_: does not sound familiar
<jrwren> rick_h_: unless that is a general term for that http form work around for http verb replacement
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, he meant s/request annotation/request property for us normal folks
<Blazeix> weird way of putting it. i usually s/annotation/decorator/ to translate from java-ese to python-ese
<n0p> snap-l: awesome, thanks
<jjesse> whose excited to have a sewer guy cleaning out his drain today?  (not this guy)
<_stink_> hopefully it will allow you to flush, though
<jjesse> yeah
<jjesse> and not flood the basement
<rick_h_> there's liquid water out there today?
<jjesse> in my basement there was
<_stink_> ew
<snap-l> Ugh
<brousch> greg-g: Does this description of your talk seem accurate? http://www.meetup.com/grwebdev/events/44262322/
<snap-l> Buh... buh...
<snap-l> Remote Greg?
<greg-g> brousch: sure thing
 * greg-g still needs to make it ;)
<brousch> :P
<brousch> Three of us organize the group together. For each meeting, on of us is the "Manager Of Meeting." That is not me this time, so you might get contacted by Ross Hunter
<greg-g> ok
<brousch> But I'll be there and helping, so feel free to go through me
<greg-g> gotcha
<brousch> Thanks again
<greg-g> np
<brousch> Interesting http://detroitdevdays.com/mobidevday/
<rick_h_> yea, didn't someone go to that last year? Blazeix maybe
<brousch> This says it's a new conference. Mobile only
<rick_h_> I thought they did a mobile thing before :/
<brousch> Or a mobile-only version of the regular one
<brousch> Apparently they had a mobile track last year
<rick_h_> http://mobidevday2012.eventbrite.com/
<brousch> I submitted my Kivy talk
<rick_h_> cool
<greg-g> I'm able to view that site with my desktop browser just fine!
<brousch> :P
<snap-l> Mobile is just a fad
<snap-l> pretty soon they'll all come back to the nice desktop like good little kids.
 * snap-l imagines something similar being said around the PC / Mainframe era
<rick_h_> ok, I'm wearing a cap inside my house. Maybe I'd better go get the space heater :(
<snap-l> hah
<brousch> hipster!
<rick_h_> hey, this bald heat is a giant heat sink and it works too well!
<rick_h_> /heat/head
<brousch> Grow more hair on your face to compensate
<greg-g> +1
<rick_h_> I think you need to retake thermal from school :P
<rick_h_> thermo that is
<rick_h_> greg-g: <3 the tool check
<rick_h_> floored it's mitered vs dovetailed
<rick_h_> if you need to fix a few nails: http://www.leevalley.com/US/hardware/page.aspx?p=40387&cat=3,41306,41324 should hopefully match up
<greg-g> rick_h_: floored in which way? :)
<rick_h_> greg-g: well since these things take a lot of abuse, normally they'd be dovetailed for strongest joints in the body
<rick_h_> mitered doesn't give a lot of strength
<rick_h_> unless mitered dovetailed, so floored the nails held it together that well
<greg-g> ah, right :)
<greg-g> rick_h_: when you have time to answer (no rush, obviously), do you have suggestions on care for the toolbox? I mean, I would love to not treat it like a museum peice. It is rugged still and not likely to break anywhere, but keeping it going tips would be helpful ;) (oils? how to tell when I should replace nails?)
<brousch> I just realized that with my switch to Kivy I no longer have a need for Eclipse
<snap-l> Nice.
<brousch> Now I have to go watch the rick_h_ vim tutorials again
<rick_h_> http://lococast.net/archives/category/screencast
<rick_h_> :)
<brousch> I lost all knowledge of buffers
<brousch> Hm. My talk for MobiDevDay has already been accepted
<rick_h_> nice, go brousch go...except he left
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-01-23
<snap-l> Evening
<rick_h_> <3 http://r.bmark.us/u/d9c1c7d41a22fc
<rick_h_> come on ubuntu, do it!
<snap-l> That would be pretty awesome (rolling release)
<snap-l> Man, I love everything about the Rush Remasters
<snap-l> Finally picked up the last one that I'm planning on picking up: Grace Under Pressure
<snap-l> Finally saw it at BN tonight
<snap-l> And it just sounds better.
<snap-l> I think their early digital albums benefit from the remastering
<snap-l> Signals has always been a sore spot. The Remaster makes it positively brilliant
<snap-l> (yeah, I know I'm several years late to the party. ;) )
<snap-l> http://decafbad.net/2013/01/23/scratch-an-itch-pull-the-scab/
<snap-l> http://synthematik.bandcamp.com/track/killing-in-the-name-rage-against-the-machine-cover
<snap-l> ARe we having fun yet?
<brousch> Almost
<rick_h_> oh joy
<snap-l> http://theprofoundprogrammer.com/post/41265135868/text-great-perl-photograph-of-perls-hello
<rick_h_> bah! http://www.ispebbleshipping.com/
<brousch> heh
<rick_h_> :( email says they only got 500 going out today vs the 15k originally thought
<widox> yikes, thats a big difference
<rick_h_> We weren't able to get as many units to our fulfillment centre as we expected (held up by documentation at the airport). Less than 500
<rick_h_> units are going out today, with more expected to ship soon.
<rick_h_> so I guess it's not "they failed to be built" but failed customs...but still ugh
<jjesse> apparently the factory isn't up to full speed for production
<jjesse> boo on that
<brousch> Storm customs!
<brousch> Occupy customs!
<snap-l> Remember, kids: customs is a legal entity unto itself.
<snap-l> If you need something there yesterday, Customs will screw you.
<snap-l> accept no substitutes.
<snap-l> yay, chair arrived.
<rick_h_> yay
<snap-l> Oh, I like it. It's smaller than the big ball, and it has wheels on it, and a nice back to remind me to sit up.
<snap-l> ANd it has casters, so I can turn it without having to get up.
<snap-l> Now for the keyboard to arrive... ;)
<brousch> So it's a ball with wheels and a back?
<snap-l> Yeah
<snap-l> brousch: http://ur1.ca/climp
<jrwren> anyone have example code for a python fileobject decorator? (pattern, not python decorator)
<rick_h_> not translating that. fileobject decorator?
<jrwren> ya know how bz2.BZ2File() can take a fileobject as input? so that is known as decorator pattern and it exposes the fileobject interface so you can use it anywhere you would use a file object
<jrwren> i need to do same thing.
<jrwren> duh, go look at bz2file source :)
<snap-l> Wouldnt' that work like any other decorator?
<rick_h_> oh, I mean that's just duck typing on the input. Thing stringio
<greg-g> snap-l: you *sit* on that thing?
<snap-l> greg-g: Yes.
<rick_h_> I think decorator as new func wrapping call to diff func. And here it's just a func taking a file-like input
<jrwren> yes, just duck typing
<snap-l> I used a larger ball that rick_h_ let me borrow. JoDee said I looked like I was incubating an egg.
<jrwren> but i don't want stringio
<jrwren> python3 yas bufferediobase, that might work
<snap-l> Now I'll look like I have a nest as well.
 * snap-l fully admits it's probably not doing what he thinks it's doing.
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, I mean you can look at what method BZ2File uses and just implement that on a class. Otherwise just implement the api of file http://docs.python.org/2/tutorial/inputoutput.html#methods-of-file-objects
<rick_h_> but doubt you need them all
<greg-g> snap-l: :) hey, as long as it helps man
<jrwren> io.RawIOBase is what I want, I think.
<rick_h_> cool
<jrwren> err, io.BufferedIOBase
<snap-l> greg-g: I've always had a weak midsection, so the theory is to strengthen it. Whether that works or not and doesn't add to back problems is another matter entirely.
<rick_h_> ball sitting can make you sore for a while for sure
<brousch> snap-l: Keep me informed of your experience
<rick_h_> have to work to stay on top of it right
<snap-l> brousch: Will do.
<greg-g> snap-l: blogzor it!
<snap-l> Definitely.
<brousch> With photos and video
<snap-l> and hookers, and blackjack.
<jrwren> turns out I don't want that. I think I want to write my own codec. http://docs.python.org/2/library/codecs.html
<rick_h_> what?!
<rick_h_> you just want to have your own object be BZ2'd right?
<snap-l> jrwren: what are you attempting?
<jrwren> no no, bz2 was just and example.
<jrwren> i have a bad xml file and I want to strip chars
<jrwren> but i want to do it in a stream read manner
<rick_h_> isn't for l in open('file') lazy per line?
<jrwren> yes, but I'm not doing that.
<jrwren> i'm passing the file object to lxml parser
<jrwren> http://www.doughellmann.com/PyMOTW/codecs/ is a pretty good tutorial
<rick_h_> jrwren: ok, gotcha
<jcastro> snap-l: this colonel guy is funny
<snap-l> Bruce Hampton? Yeah, he's a character.
<brousch> Here's your big chance, East Siders http://www.meetup.com/Michigan-Python-Development-Group/events/95260982/
<brousch> Wow. 50 devs already
<snap-l> INteresting
<jrwren> sometimes I think python should be declared and utter failure of its objectives.
<snap-l> OK, how so?
<jrwren> well, what is irking me right now is that StringIO has no readable property
<jrwren> yes http://docs.python.org/2/library/io.html says it should
<jrwren> but http://docs.python.org/2/library/stringio.html says no
<_stink_> oh man i think i've seen that before
<_stink_> like it has a StringI and a StringO internal or something?
<jrwren> yes
<jrwren> so i get a StringI
<jrwren> which is fine, input is what I have and want
<jrwren> yet has no readable attr
<_stink_> yeah crap
<jrwren> so I can't actually wrap it with TextIOWrapper
<_stink_> what did i do about that?
<_stink_> i can't remember
<_stink_> i know, i know, that's very helpful
<jrwren> use StringIO instead of cStringIO and add the attr yourself?
<rick_h_> is StingIO updated to StringIO is long before io module though I think. While the names seem close I'm not sure they actually are related at all
<jrwren> the docs in io says they are
<jrwren> docs could be wrong
<rick_h_> probably me, I see io is 2.6. I thuoght it was newer than that
<rick_h_> but still, pretty sure StringIO was before that, but it should have been updated to match I suppose
<rick_h_> ok, funny http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkM6RJf15cg&feature=share
<snap-l> Um, what the hell were they advertising?
<snap-l> Hey, remember us? We used to be cool too
<rick_h_> IE
<snap-l> Jesus, Microsoft needs to shoot their marketing department.
<snap-l> "Hi, we're the browser of nostalgia"
<snap-l> "Hi, remember us? We're the browser you used to use, like POGs, and pump-up shoes. You got old, and we got old too. Friend me!"ï»¿
<jrwren> apparently you can't wrap codecs :(
<jrwren> so it was not the best approach
<jrwren> easier to wrap/decorate read()
<rick_h_> this line just reads so crazy: Apple Shares Drop 5.6% In After-Hours Trading After Q1 2013 Earnings, Shaving $27 Billion Off Its Market Cap
<rick_h_> 27 with a B?
<rick_h_> daaaamn
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-01-24
<snap-l> Yeah, Apple has crazy money
<snap-l> I wonder if they have enough money to float Microsoft a loan.
<snap-l> http://thenextweb.com/shareables/2012/08/29/apple-now-bigger-market-cap-microsoft-google-amazon-facebook-combined/
<snap-l> Whether that's true or not, it makes a nice story.
<jcastro> heya rick_h_
<jcastro> I need your webdev skillz
<rick_h_> jcastro: what's up?
<jcastro> hey so I had my DNS on gandi
<jcastro> but I moved to route53
<rick_h_> k
<jcastro> how do I know when my site has propagated fully?
<jcastro> http://www.whatsmydns.net/#A/www.jorgecastro.org
<jcastro> I did this
<rick_h_> all depends on the client. In *theory* it should be as long as the TTL on the old DNS server
<rick_h_> but that's not always followed to the second
<jcastro> yeah so really, my only concern is that I did it right
<jcastro> like, I'm not _sure_ that when all the dns catches up that my site will work
<jcastro> I want to figure out how to test with the latest, even if it's not propagated
<JonEdney> Edit your hosts file.
<rick_h_> well to test that, just check it by specifying the dns server. http://droptips.com/using-dig-to-query-a-specific-dns-server-name-server-directly-linux-bsd-osx
<rick_h_> do that against the route53 dns servers. Do they give you end points?
<jcastro> yeah but I am also using cloudfront, so I don't really know what to do about /etc/hosts
<rick_h_> do you know the ip jorgecastro.net should resolve to?
<rick_h_> that's pointing at a server? Or just at s3/cloudfront?
<rick_h_> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/872/ is on aws
<rick_h_> and site loads fine for me, quick
<rick_h_> ok, well not so quick for all assets, but quick enough
<jcastro> just s3/cloudfront
<jcastro> ah ok dude
<jcastro> so ns-1790.awsdns-31.co.uk.
<rick_h_> jcastro: yea, I think you're set
<jcastro> is one of the new dns server things they told me to add
<jcastro> so ... I switched out dns and everything just worked
<jcastro> huh
<jcastro> I was expecting everything to break
<jcastro> but man, they do a nice job of making it convenient to use all their services instead of piecemeal
<rick_h_> lol, naw. Unless you took down the old stuff it should update invisible
<rick_h_> yea, AWS wins because they provide tools that work together nicely
<jcastro> it's like, annoying to set up cloudfront and s3 with another dns provider
<jcastro> but if you use route53 it's like, click click, here's my bucket, CDN that shit yo.
<jcastro> done.
<jjesse> hahahaha laughing at "CDN that shit yo"
<jcastro> dude it's not even that
<rick_h_> yea, every time I backup a EC2 EBS to S3 I get thinking "crap this is nice"
<jcastro> it's just like, click, and then pay
<jcastro> rick_h_: how brutal, my bill for my blog this month
<jcastro> .69 cents
<rick_h_> lol
<jcastro> that's _with_ cloudfront
<jcastro> normal s3 is like .18
<jcastro> but I ain't ghetto!
<jjesse> i can't believe my wife still watches american idol
<JonEdney> Blame Keith Urban.
<jjesse> probably should srsly this show should have died a long time ago
<rick_h_> hah
<snap-l> Am I the only person who mutters "fuck you" around Toby Keith's "I Love this Bar and Grill"?
<jjesse> lol
<JonEdney> haha, doubtful.
<jjesse> and Mariah and  Nick Minaj or however you spell are terrible
<jjesse> just burn it down
<rick_h_> greg-g: http://www.flickr.com/photos/7508761@N03/8410275040/in/photostream :) etsy ftw for crap I can't do.
<rick_h_> seriously, they've got anything on etsy these days
<rick_h_> gotten a wall clock, boys apron, etc
<snap-l> jcastro: Rush induction into the RnRHoF is April 18th
<snap-l> THey're selling tickets to Fans on Jan 28th
<greg-g> rick_h_: awesome! :)
<jjesse> the android app for pebble is now live in google play
<jjesse> though it won't do any good until you get your pebble
<rick_h_> yea, installed it this morning
<rick_h_> oops http://r.bmark.us/u/9ebada2bed1780
<rick_h_> maybe that's why barracuda networks is hiring :P
<snap-l> Oh that's no good.
<snap-l> That's a reputation hit no security company can afford.
<rick_h_> 10yrs is a lot of hardware
<snap-l> Q: Did you read in there that it was intentional?
<jcastro> snap-l: huh, so what's the catch with Ting
<snap-l> SPrint only
<jcastro> yeah but you don't deal with sprint directly right?
<snap-l> And you have to buy the device, but they're working on BYOD
<snap-l> No, you deal direct with them
<greg-g> jcastro: right, just deal with ting
<jcastro> oh, so I can't just switch to them if I have my own stuff
<snap-l> They have a beta program
<snap-l> one sec.
<jcastro> this is nuts
<jcastro> $416 for a galaxy nexus?
<jjesse> thats w/o the carrier giving you any money
<jjesse> you buy the phone outright
<jcastro> right, I already do that.
<jcastro> but a nexus4 is $299 from google.
<jcastro> though sold out. :(
<snap-l> jcastro: If you use my referral code, you can get $25 off
<snap-l> https://help.ting.com/entries/22352167-ting-byo-s-d-supported-devices-list
<jcastro> none of my devices are on the BYOD list
<snap-l> Yeah, then you'd have to buy a device.
<snap-l> http://decafbad.net/2012/06/06/i-love-my-phone-company-or-why-ting-com-is-awesome/
<snap-l> referral is at the bottom
<snap-l> If you have a contract, you can cancel in February, and they'll reimburse your ETF.
<jcastro> I don't have a contract
<jcastro> I've been on a euro-style plan for like 5 years. \o/
<snap-l> ++
<snap-l> Yeah, the no-contract is awesome with Ting.
<greg-g> hey! split your referral with me! ;)
<greg-g> kidding
<jcastro> huh
<jcastro> are all their phones CDMA?
<snap-l> yes
<jcastro> oh, it's sprint right
<jcastro> ugh
<greg-g> right
<jcastro> you're killing me bro
<snap-l> Stop leaving the country. ;)
<snap-l> Won't matter then. ;)
<jcastro> hey don't get me wrong, I love saving money, but I won't be giving up my gsm phone any time soon
<greg-g> I need to figure out the regulatory process that made it so Sprint allows this (not just Ting, Virgin Mobile uses Sprint's towers, I bet MetroPCS and similar do as well)
<jcastro> if there's ting<->tmo, count me in.
<jcastro> greg-g: they've always resold stuff (the big carriers)
<greg-g> jcastro: show me one other than sprint that does it, though
<snap-l> Verizon does it
<snap-l> Tracfone is via TMo
<snap-l> Or at least in this area they are.
<jcastro> http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/aboutUs/reseller/resellerFAQ.jsp
<jcastro> here you, start greg-mobile!
<jcastro> greg-g: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_virtual_network_operator
<jcastro> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_mobile_virtual_network_operators
<greg-g> huh, well then, I am proven wrong
<jcastro> I didn't know Sprint owned boost
<jcastro> I thought they just sold it to Boost and were like "you keep the low low end"
<snap-l> TMo also now owns Metro PCS, iirc.
<jcastro> "Walmart Family Mobile"
<jcastro> man
<jcastro> can you imagine _that_ experience
<greg-g> lol
 * greg-g sings the deliverance theme
<snap-l> "Hello, I'd like to dispute a charge". "Whu?"
<snap-l> "I said I'd like to dispute a charge". "Huh? Charge? No, we don't accept credit cards"
<jcastro> http://www.mysimplemobile.com/
<jcastro> looks ting-esque
<jcastro> but for tmo
<snap-l> "No, I mean I have a charge on my bill that I'd like to ... " "Omigawd, we don't allow ducks in the store no more. Not after the incident"
<jcastro> my only other problem is jill never moved to her google voice #, so I'd have to like, transfer it, sigh
<snap-l> Ting makes it easy
<greg-g> easy peasy
<greg-g> like, seriously easy, as easy as you think it should be
<snap-l> And you can turn in the old phone to Gazelle for... well... pocket change.
<snap-l> Let's not go there.
<brousch> In February I will have like 8 months left on my Verizon contract. Ting would really pay that termination fee?
<jcastro> yeah I've done that
<snap-l> brousch: That's what I'm banking on
<brousch> I keep all old smartphones for testing apps
<snap-l> I have a Galaxy Nexus waiting to activate.
<snap-l> brousch: Hm, maybe I should do that instead
<jcastro> man, moving to simplemobile would make my bill go from 130 to 90
<brousch> I'm skeptical. That's a big chunk-o-change
<snap-l> Gazelle is offering $26 for the Thunderbolt
<jcastro> for the 2 of us
<snap-l> jcastro: Moving to Ting would make your bill half that.
<snap-l> Seriously.
<snap-l> https://ting.com/plans
<jcastro> yeah, so I'm not willing to go to the cdma ghetto for it. All the best phones come out for gsm first
<snap-l> It's cheap enough that you could use that for your tooling-around-the-states phone
<jcastro> true true
<snap-l> and then buy the OMGWTFBBQ phone before UDS
<snap-l> it's only $6 to keep it active.
<snap-l> per month
<snap-l> You could put it in a drawer for 2 months and still come out ahead. ;)
<jcastro> hmm, so 2 nexuses from google + simple seem like a decent money saving effort off the bat
<jcastro> even @ only a 40 different with simple, that's like, a car payment over the course of a year.
<snap-l> How much do you and Jill use your phones?
<jcastro> I don't much, I have a gtalk landline I use which is free
<jcastro> but she eats through minutes like a beast
<jcastro> we need like, the 1000 min plan
<snap-l> OK, so 1000 minutes, 2000 messages, and 1000 megabytes is 53 a month for two phones
<snap-l> and if you go over, you just bump up
<snap-l> 71 a month for 2gb a month
<snap-l> and if you don't use it, they credit the difference.
<brousch> It sounds so good it feels like a scam!
<snap-l> so if you pay for 2000M, and only use less than 500, you get a credit of $29
<jcastro> I get that, it sounds awesome
<jcastro> but cdma is a deal breaker for me
<snap-l> How often do you travel out of the country?
<snap-l> 6 times a year?
<snap-l> 4 times a year?
<jcastro> it's not just that
<snap-l> Enlighten me
<jcastro> the phones I buy (nexuses) all come out in gsm first, by a long margin usually too
<snap-l> OK, so you have to wait a little to buy the new toy.
<snap-l> Are you saving money? :)
<jcastro> craig, I know you want a referral, I'll just buy you a beer for helping me find simple. :p
<snap-l> I'm not in it for the referral; I want you to make a good choice.
<jcastro> well, let's see
<jcastro> I would need 2 phones, that's $391 a pop for a galaxy nexus
<jcastro> a phone that was slow the day it came out, over a year ago.
<snap-l> So get the S3
<jcastro> vs. $299 for a nexus4, which is admitably sold out
<snap-l> The Nexus 4 is HTC< so it'll blow up in a year
<jcastro> the s3 is even more of a joke, it's $520!
<jcastro> also any non-nexus is an immediate deal breaker, has to be purge google.
<jcastro> rick_h_: help me out here, I know you understand.
<rick_h_> with jcastro, getting sick of devices on verizon :/
<jcastro> also I meant pure google, not purge google
<rick_h_> some of us pay for the joy of software updates and devices that don't suck
<snap-l> OK, so you're paying $400 for a year-old phone
<snap-l> And getting a hell of a ddeal in the process on a month-to-month basis
<rick_h_> N4 isn't year old and is < $400 and you can get it on GSM, have latest android, and know it'll be good for the next 2 years without an issue
<jcastro> ^^^^
<snap-l> And you'll pay $90 a month for the privilege
<snap-l> 1200 to have a nice toy
<snap-l> with admittedly great coverage
<rick_h_> phone is  more than a toy for some :P
<jcastro> dude don't blame me, it's not my fault all those phones suck
<snap-l> vs 480 for a year for two phones
<snap-l> (that's about how much I pay for JoDee's dad and my phone per month)
<snap-l> $40
<snap-l> assuming I don't get referral bonuses
<rick_h_> right, but what's the price when your phone has no coverage and you run out of gas, or say..hit a deer in the back wood by my uncle's house :P
<snap-l> rick_h_: In case you hadn't noticed, Sprint is in a lot of rural areas Verizon isn't. ;)
<rick_h_> meh, jcastro you go man.
<jcastro> snap-l: hey so for sure, for my parents and stuff, this is awesome
<snap-l> I mean, Sprint is in GR, and that's rural. ;)
<rick_h_> snap-l: heh, was at music class surfing on my tablet while the ATT and Sprint folks couldn't get get/send a text message :)
<rick_h_> and that's every wed night
<snap-l> rick_h_: Were they on iPhones ? :)
<rick_h_> just saying it's not so clear cut for those of us that rely on the phone and coverage.
<snap-l> (grasping at straws, yeah)
<rick_h_> snap-l: two iphones, one ipad, and don't know wtf the sprint phone was
<snap-l> AT&T coverage was shit anyway.
<snap-l> My iPhone was pretty useless when it wasn't on wifi
<rick_h_> jcastro: let me know what yuo end up with. I'm thinking I might have to move back to ATT next contract
<snap-l> rick_h_: Why?
<jcastro> I am just waiting for N4's to get into stock
<rick_h_> bring my own device and have 4g
<rick_h_> the ATT 4g is not as good as verizon but hear it's getting better
<snap-l> Ph, yeah, minor detail: Sprint doesn't have 4G in this area.
<rick_h_> and I'm sick of long waits for any software updates on my nexus
<rick_h_> might keep a verizon mifi and get phones from ATT
<rick_h_> well, bring my own phones that is
<snap-l> Didn't know ATT supported BYOD.
<rick_h_> they don't really, you can buy a sim on contract and get it working though. It took some work but did get a sim working in my gsm mifi I bought for international travel
<jcastro> tmo doesn't have 4g either, it's 3.5g
<rick_h_> yea, when I say 4g I mean LTE
<jcastro> they just call it 4g
<jcastro> because they're assholes
<snap-l> jcastro: I mean you'll only get 3g
<snap-l> There's no 4G / LTE coverage, period
<jcastro> ah
<jcastro> well, as I like to say, "I'm on tmo, I'm always on 3g."
<snap-l> You have to go to Ohio for 4G
<jcastro> I get their "4g" HSPDA or whatever in AA and RO and in most populated areas, including my house
<jcastro> but like, I don't care that much, all 4g means is hitting my cap faster
<rick_h_> lol
<jcastro> just like the comcast commercials
<snap-l> jcastro: Oh, Ting doesn't have caps.
<jcastro> "We're faster than anyone else."
<jcastro> but if you do simple arithmetic you'd hit their cap in like a day.
<snap-l> I want to know why fucking Valprasio has 4G and we don't.
<greg-g> hey rick_h_, off topic for now, but do you still send things to your kindle to read offline, stuff like longer blog posts/articles?
<snap-l> Yeah, talking abou phone service is so on-topic. ;)
<greg-g> well, on-current-topic-of-discussion ;)
<rick_h_> greg-g: no, not really. I tried to read books offline. If the article isn't worth attention now I bookmark it in case I need it but don't always go through them all
<greg-g> this channel should be renamed #ubunu-us-mi-offtopic, but no one would be in #ubuntu-us-mi anymore ;)
<greg-g> rick_h_: gotcha
<rick_h_> tried/try that was
<greg-g> ah, this is kind of nice, actually: https://www.amazon.com/gp/sendtokindle/firefox
<rick_h_> greg-g: very cool
<rick_h_> heh, they've got the whole read it later in kindle setup.
<snap-l> greg-g: I thought instapaper had something to move articles to the kindle
<greg-g> snap-l: /me doesn't use instapaper
<greg-g> snap-l: but whatever works
<snap-l> Right, I haven't used INstapaper in a while now
<greg-g> I thought it was a more involved process back in the day
<snap-l> I just print to PDF and put it in a Dropbox folder.
<greg-g> it == getting things to the kindle
<rick_h_> yea, instapaper supported it, how I used to get stuff on there
 * greg-g nods
<rick_h_> you mean you first hit up r.bmark.us and then put that in the dropbox folder? :P
<snap-l> Um, yeah
<snap-l> tried to convince John here to use bookie instead of this scrapbooking
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> he was under the mistaken impression that Bookie didn't do images
<snap-l> of course all of the articles I found didn't have images.
<rick_h_> hah
<snap-l> Or the parsing was wonky.
<greg-g> you read the wrong news sites ;)
<rick_h_> well, so I don't pull down and store images
<snap-l> https://bmark.us/bmark/readable/b14e57863c22f2
<rick_h_> but I do try to update them to the correct links if I can
<rick_h_> ah interesting. Should file that as a bug against breadability
<rick_h_> sucky, works with readability. I fail
<rick_h_> http://r.bmark.us/u/fa83e5f50cba96 does better since there's more body to it
<rick_h_> http://r.bmark.us/u/f47105aef8de5a is pretty much ugh as well
<greg-g> grr, neither the Fx nor the Chrome official Send to Kindle plugins are working
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-01-25
<jjesse-home> ok this might be one of the worst job ads I've seen "Do you offer the Net to go with the Dot? The # to go with the C? The âjâ to complete the Query? The right mix of Pâs, Hâs, and Pâs to have the experience we need in PHP? Can you make it all happen with an O an O and a P through OOP? "
<snap-l> Do you break your bytes into bits?
<snap-l> we can't function without your methods, so break from your normal case and gosub us now
<snap-l> WE promise we won't break you.
<snap-l> or leave you in an infinite loop
<snap-l> We're anything but routine
 * jrwren just threw up in his mouth a little
<rick_h_> isn't the little second one cute :P http://www.flickr.com/photos/7508761@N03/8413133638/in/photostream/
<jcastro> hey rick
<jcastro> I can't find a decent Teac stoll for Jill for the shower, make me one yo
<rick_h_> jcastro: what's up
<rick_h_> teak stool?
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> you know, for the shower
<jcastro> http://www.amazon.com/Teak-Folding-Shower-Bench-Stool/dp/B001O8KW82
<rick_h_> no, but google suggested teak stool so looking
<jcastro> like that
<jcastro> but not ass
<jcastro> http://www.amazon.com/Corner-Solid-Teak-Shower-Outdoor/dp/B005LQ8J3S/ref=pd_sim_sbs_hg_2
<rick_h_> http://www.goldenteak.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=TSSS&Category_Code=TOI&Store_Code=001&source=froogle&utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=cpc&gclid=CPfjmJS8grUCFYxaMgodwDwA2w looks cool
<rick_h_> http://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/1/1/57563-teak-asia-stool.html isn't bad looking
<rick_h_> shame they didn't curve the legs some to go with the top but that makes it a pita to make I guess
<derekv> i royally declare the state of computing to be,... bullshit
<rick_h_> now here you go http://cgi.ebay.com/Danish-Modern-Teak-Stool-Chair-Bench-Mid-Century-Wegner-Finn-Juhl-Eames-Era_W0QQitemZ290781763219QQcmdZViewItemQQssPageNameZRSS:B:SRCH:US:101
<rick_h_> jcastro: ^^
<rick_h_> derekv: and the new part of this statement is? :P
<derekv> so i figured out you can compile hundreds of dependancies deep in freebsd generally without a problem
<derekv> all with their nested ports makefile system
<derekv> as long as its a fresh system
<derekv> trying do maintain updates that way
<derekv> things go way out of wack
<rick_h_> updating is hard, let's go shopping
<rick_h_> jcastro: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Grade-A-Teak-Wood-Stool-W-Shelf-Shower-Spa-Bath-Bench-Outdoor-Garden-Patio-New-/290614467120 isn't bad looking
<derekv> basically want I want is a system where I specify what things are important to me.  if its important what version, I specify that, or if its important I have the most recent, I say so, otherwise give me the most stable that is known to match the other requirements I have given
<derekv> instead of upgrading
<derekv> take a snapshot of my system
<derekv> rebuild from scratch
<derekv> given the requirements
<derekv> if something fails, or in the morning I find I don't like it, I get to roll back
<derekv> don't try to upgrade in place
<derekv> just, new system as per my requirements
<derekv> apply my patches to config files
<derekv> boot
<derekv> rick_h_: you know how you made your makefile to roll out all the requirements, at least given an ubuntu system
<derekv> I want that for my entire operating system
<derekv> I don't care about upgrade
<derekv> here's the other way of putting it
<derekv> worked on a system where customer data was in the database, but the scheme was evolving
<derekv> what I wanted that never quit happened was this
<derekv> we started with the schema of the last release
<derekv> CI applied the patches, including the schema upgrade scripts, given a snapshot or dump taken from the last release point
<derekv> basically at every commit, CI tries to do the full upgrade
<derekv> part of the "tests" that CI runs, is testing the upgrade process
<derekv> I want that for my OS
<derekv> the previous release point is my current system
<derekv> but in my case, I think I can remove much of the "state" eg the database
<derekv> just start with a base OS install, apply patches
<derekv> if I don't like, I back out, and adjust the patches untill they work
<rick_h_> http://wwwapps.ups.com/WebTracking/track?HTMLVersion=5.0&loc=en_US&Requester=UPSHome&WBPM_lid=homepage%2Fct1.html_pnl_trk&trackNums=1ZV6292VD370121254&track.x=Track
<rick_h_> ugh, wtf...I think it's trapped
<rick_h_> derekv: yea, but that's hard. I know with ubuntu we've worked on smoke tests and doing upgrades/etc
<rick_h_> but it's not on a continous package by package and with 30k packages there's amore than a few combinations to test out there
<derekv> rick_h_: its not trivial no ... thats why id be running tests on my own paticular combination
<derekv> no OS packager could run tests on every combination, and its even more ridiculus when you throw in upgrades
<snap-l> fuck
<snap-l> I wan t to know why fucking dropbox keeps wigging out on me
<greg-g> I wish nixternal was in the channel:
<greg-g> http://via.me/-93ay55w
<snap-l> I think I need to post my dropbox problem on askubuntu.com
<rick_h_> sounds like a plan
<rick_h_> or their forums on their site
<brousch> ubuntu forums is your best bet
<rick_h_> I meant dropbox forums
<rick_h_> https://forums.dropbox.com/
<brousch> I didn't
<rick_h_> :P
<brousch> muahahahahaha
<snap-l> http://phys.org/news/2012-10-sweden-norway-trash-lots.html
<jcastro> hmm so blowing away the dot directory didn't work?
<snap-l> jcastro: Nope.
<snap-l> I've even tried blowing away the .dropbox-dist directory to no luck
<jcastro> huh
<jcastro> and you're sure your user has the correct permissions to ~/Dropbox?
<brousch> Could it be a problematic file messing you up?
<snap-l> jcastro: It Seems to stop working after a while, so it starts off just fine
<snap-l> It's the damndest thing
<snap-l> I could understand it not working at all, but I'm not sure why it stops working after working perfectly.
<snap-l> dmesg doesn't have anything
<snap-l> Keyboard is on the truck
<snap-l> drive! drive like the wind!
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> the wife's laptop is on the truck as well. delivery friday!
<rick_h_> 3 days clearing in KY, but finally free!
<rick_h_> ugh, it's kind of nasty out
<rick_h_> and I'll never understand the white cards in white snow without headlights on
<snap-l> Yeah, I don't understand that either
<snap-l> or grey cars in rain without lights.
<snap-l> THis is not the time for camoflauge
<jjesse> or dark cars at night w/o lights
<jjesse> i just want to run into them
<snap-l> http://www.littersystem.com/productinfo.html
 * jjesse smashes cars w/o headlights
<jcastro> dang, more snow
<jcastro> it just passed the "Should I shovel it" threshold
<snap-l> Apparently one of my goals is to research cat litter.
<snap-l> jcastro: You must have a low threshold, or we haven't received enough yet.
<jcastro> I got a tiny bit
<jcastro> enough to not shovel
<jcastro> but now I got some more, enough to shovel when added with the other stuff
<jcastro> and I really shouldn't make my UPS guy do the sidewalk without at least some salt.
<rick_h_droid> yea cleared and salted yesterday and they're saying 2inches today
<jcastro> oh, so I should wait a bit then
<snap-l> Woo woo! New keyboard showed up. :)
<snap-l> And it's way more quiet. :
<snap-l> Heh
<snap-l> Might not even need the dampers.
<rick_h_> heh
<greg-g> brousch: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?s=726169c1ea006fb3cc9103a7afc4359a&p=12473611#post12473611
<brousch> Ubuntu forums? I smell a troll link
<greg-g> brousch: nope, I'm subscribed via rss to our sub-forum there from way back when
<brousch> Replied
<brousch> Thanks for the heads-up
<greg-g> np
<snap-l> brousch: Would you create a separate topic that people are more likely to find folks on the mailing list than on the forums?
<snap-l> I have no idea who half of these folks are in the forum. :)
<brousch> eh?
<snap-l> ie: "please stop posting in the forums, because were it not for greg-g, nobody would read it. ;) "
 * snap-l deleted his forum account long ago
<brousch> greg-g has a sticky thread
<brousch> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=515718
<brousch> There's like 1 post every 6 months
<snap-l> Could we make it a little more "stop posting here? :)"
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> yeah, lemme remember what my password is :)
<brousch> That's what lastpass is for
<snap-l> I don't want people to get the impression that we're not active because we don't use the forums
 * greg-g nods
<brousch> ah
<greg-g> how's this? http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=515718
<brousch> I don't see how to make somthing sticky
<snap-l> greg-g: better. Thank you.
<snap-l> greg-g: Maybe even in the title
<snap-l> "This group is deprecated" or something like that.
<snap-l> s/group/forum/
<greg-g> don't think I can.
<snap-l> Bugger.
<snap-l> Frankly, I'd love to see the forums deprecated entirely.
<snap-l> I think Ask Ubuntu takes over the forum nicely.
<snap-l> Yes, I know some folks think the forums are the bee's knees, but I'm ready to mark them as "no" under my search preferences.
<snap-l> greg-g: Just refreshed. Thank you!
<greg-g> snap-l: 6~http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=271
<greg-g> -6~ ;)
<greg-g> np
<snap-l> rick_h_: I <3 Modern Package Template
<snap-l> it's a nice feeling knowing you just installed your app locally. ;)
<brousch> need's python3
<snap-l> THis is just a dippy little script for me to create random playlists
<snap-l> that's all
<brousch> then it should definitely be py3
<brousch> Time to move up!
<snap-l> Pardon me while I don't care. ;)
<brousch> ludite!
<brousch> Go back to fortran
<snap-l> WHo are you calling a 19th century textile worker?
<brousch> The Python2 user
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-01-26
<rick_h_> snap-l: :)
<brousch> I have no idea what search terms these people are using that they miss Grand Rapids Linux groups http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=12473629&postcount=55
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h_> party
<rick_h_> snap-l: so glad to finally be mechanical?
<rick_h_> took us a few years to get you there :P
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, it's actually quite nice.
<snap-l> I think I don't even he soft landing pads
<snap-l> they quiet down the keys, but they also get in the way.
<snap-l> Yeah, I think I'm becoming more rick_h_ every day. ;)
 * snap-l ordered that cat littler thing
<snap-l> http://shop.littersystem.com/Litter-Quick-Litter-Box-and-Sifting-System-SP-0241.htm
<snap-l> And also got pissed off at Target for a poorly done Free Shipping promition
<Wolfger> Ugh. First reboot after Pangolin upgrade, and laptop doesn't want to start again, freezes pre-grub
<Wolfger> finally got it to boot, but still didn't see grub. Dual booting is out the window? :-(
<Wolfger> Google says this is not unheard of
<Wolfger> and of course the wonderful people of Launchpad marked the bug "invalid".
<snap-l> Lovely.
<Wolfger> at least it seems to be fixed now, but why would you still be shipping 8 months later with a bug like that
<jcastro> snap-l: if you're not doing shit this afternoon I am jill-less with many concerts
<snap-l> jcastro: Nuts. I have some errands to run, and then dinner with my parents this evening.
<jcastro> nuts indeed
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-01-27
<snap-l> Huh, apparently dovecot is running out of inotify nodes.
<snap-l> I think that's what's causing my problem.
<snap-l> Yeah, 20232 files might do it, now wouldn't it.
<brousch> ah, I hit that before
<brousch> You can bump it up
<brousch> I think it was when I had 90GB in my dropbox
<jcastro> eah
<jcastro> if you're out of inotify nodes
<jcastro> that outta do it
<snap-l> didn't know i was
<jcastro> http://askubuntu.com/questions/154255/how-can-i-tell-if-i-am-out-of-inotify-watches
<tony-smlr> SMLR is live!!  Video http://www.youtube.com/user/tbemus?v=CXSyi7xc3dU , Audio: http://live.smlr.us:8000/streaming
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h_> greg-g: coming to MI any time soon?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-01-20
<rick_h_> widox: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6783180/
<gamerchick02> i'm thinking about ordering the Max.
<gamerchick02> http://www.maxkeyboard.com/max-keyboard-blackbird-tenkeyless-tkl-cherry-mx-backlit-mechanical-keyboard.html
<gamerchick02> rick_h_ and cmaloney, do you think this is a good buy?
<gamerchick02> (it's on Amazon for $10 less but i'm sure that will be made up in shipping)
<rick_h_> widox: wonder if the if ! tmux has-session -t bookie; then will help your use?
<widox> rick_h_: tm
<widox> hm
<widox> I saw some things about using `tmux attach` instead of just `tmux` - just seemed like more work compare to screen
<rick_h_> it should thow a hissy fit if you create two sessions of the same name
<rick_h_> so something is off
<rick_h_> but anyway, I've got a bunch of bin/tXXXX and use them to script setups for working on stuff
<widox> ok, wasn't sure if all the work outside of tmux.conf was really the way to go
<gamerchick02> tmuxâ¦ that's a window manager, yes?
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: an alternative to screen
<rick_h_> for cli use
<gamerchick02> oh, cool
<gamerchick02> thanks
<gamerchick02> i'm thinking about buying that MaxKeyboard.
<rick_h_> cool, don't know anything about them
<rick_h_> but yay mechanical keyboards
<gamerchick02> i've got to think about it a bit more and i might order it
<gamerchick02> i do have a Razer BlackWidow
<gamerchick02> which i like but dang if that synapse thing is shit
<gamerchick02> AND they have extra keycaps.
<gamerchick02> so that's cool
<rick_h_> trevlar: I'm going to need a trailer to bring all this crap down to the tech shop lol
<rick_h_> I've got two note cards of stuff listed out. Looks like I'm buying groceries for a month
<rick_h_> can anyone load up maps.google.com?
<trevlar> rick_h_: ha
<trevlar> yeah works for me
<rick_h_> hmm, yea loaded in FF, not in chrome
<rick_h_> wtf chrome
<cmaloney> GOod morning
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> party party
<trevlar> rick_h_: how goes the painting?
<rick_h_> trevlar: well, it was $50 for the day pass
<rick_h_> so glad I brought extra $$, but seems to be working well
<rick_h_> dries fast, nice to work in the booth
<trevlar> whaaaa?
<rick_h_> just have the first coat on and waiting for it to dry
<rick_h_> of course I've got some runs and such, first real time spraying a full project and lots of little pita points
<jrwren> wtf are you doing rick_h_ ?
<trevlar> rick_h_: damn, sorry about that. I really thought it was just $25
<trevlar> ok so I think it's half price ($25) if you're a guest of a member :/
<rick_h_> jrwren: I'm spraying my night stand I've been working on at a spray booth at the detroit techshop
<rick_h_> jrwren: http://www.flickr.com/photos/7508761@N03/sets/72157632425736106/ go to the bottom
<rick_h_> time to go check on the dryness. bbiab
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Leaving a conversation to check to see if the paint dried on your nightstand? That's tacky.
<cmaloney> Thanks, I'll be here all week
 * brousch groans
<jrwren> rick_h_: looks great.
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> trevlar: any idea if there's a solvent safe sink area?
<brousch> It's Detroit. Just pour it down the storm drain like everyone else
<rick_h_> ummmm, yea not sure if that'll work
<brousch> Go next door to the abandoned lot and dump it
<trevlar> rick_h_: not sure
<jrwren> please don't destroy my environment. ty
<jrwren> for hte first time ever, i'm really glad brousch lives in west MI
<brousch> hah
<cmaloney> jrwren: That's the first time?
<cmaloney> ;)
<jrwren> it really is!
<rick_h_> yea, no solvents
 * rick_h_ will be careful and clean up at home after this is all done
<rick_h_> well, no place to clean/work with solvents. Guess they wanted a mineral spirits tank for cleaning parts and such but on dice
<rick_h_> 179043
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Please to be giving us the first factor. ;)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-01-21
<rick_h_> cmaloney: 123456
<gamerchick02> howdy rick_h_. is that the password to your bank?
<gamerchick02> :-P
<cmaloney> luggage3 no doubt
<cmaloney> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00B553PH4/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=T3NEP0PXYT0&coliid=I3JJPTBIU76YO
<cmaloney> high-school me would have been all over this shirt
<cmaloney> college me would have been all over this shirt
<cmaloney> adult me is having a hard time not hitting "why aren't you on my porch yet"
<cmaloney> rick_h_: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/01/internet-users-ditch-password-as-password-upgrade-to-123456/
<rick_h_> cmaloney: that's why I typed '123456'
<rick_h_> had seen that earlier today
<cmaloney> Figured as much
<cmaloney> yeah, not keeping up on the feeds. :)
<rick_h_> greg-g: wood pron https://plus.google.com/u/0/116120911388966791792/posts/DHeN7sh67xP
<cmaloney> hu huh... wood
<rick_h_> Current Conditions: 0.4Â°F
<rick_h_> oh just say 0
<cmaloney> rick_h_: yeah it is too cold to quibble
<brousch> Damn these polar vortices!
<rick_h_> pretty much
<rick_h_> you know how much $$ I have to spend heating that darn garage
<rick_h_> 0 to 50 is a lot more then 35 to 50
 * rick_h_ is afraid of electic bill 
<brousch> yikes. electric heat?
<rick_h_> yea, couple oil radiator heaters
<rick_h_> only thing safe out there and does an ok job once it gets going usually
<brousch> Don't you have a barrel of oily rags you could burn?
<rick_h_> hah
<jrwren> oily rags are expensive and don't burn clean. are you trying to kill rick_h_ from noxious gasses?
<rick_h_> he wants me dead too1
<rick_h_> !
<rick_h_> my son tried to kill Erica (my wife) with a tilted head on the lips french kiss looking thing.
<rick_h_> not kill/kiss
<rick_h_> because he saw it on the Lorax movie
<rick_h_> now I know he's trying to knock me off and steal my wife
<jrwren> ll
<jrwren> lol
<jrwren> classic edipal complx
<rick_h_> :)
<brousch> Yes, well my son said he wants me to be his husband instead of his Momma's husband
<jrwren> ya'll need to teach your kids about marriage :p
<brousch> Well 2 males can marry now, so it's just the incest thing. And does that really matter if there's no procreation involved?
<waf> "it's really just for tax reasons, honest!"
<brousch> I hadn't thought about it until I had to come up with a logical answer
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> "all about the taxes"
<jrwren> brousch: if those are the values you wish to instil in your child, then you are doing well.
<brousch> We had a good talk about MLK too. Most of his friends are minorities, so he had a hard time believing segregation
<jrwren> yeah, the next gen of kids are either really not going to get segregation, or they totally are.
<cmaloney> jrwren: one can hope
<rick_h_> oh boy, I found my first talk to heckle! https://us.pycon.org/2014/schedule/presentation/171/
<cmaloney> rick_h_: now now, be nice.
<rick_h_> cmaloney: but but but...why?
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Well, rick_h_ I think we need to have "the talk"
<cmaloney> see, sometimes people on the Internet?
<cmaloney> They're wrong
<rick_h_> this isn't the internet!
<cmaloney> I know.. I know... it's OK. Breathe.
<rick_h_> it's real life :)
<cmaloney> Well, then it's time for the other talk
<cmaloney> see, sometimes people on the real life?
<cmaloney> They're wrong
<cmaloney> I know.. I know... it's OK. Breathe.
<cmaloney> And sometimes they're so wrong that it hurts a little.
<cmaloney> but that's OK.
<cmaloney> we still love all the wrong people out there
<cmaloney> and when they die God will send them where?
<cmaloney> To hell. That's right. :)
<rick_h_> lol
<cmaloney> I'm glad we had this chat.
 * rick_h_ does a happy dance http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~juju-gui/juju-gui/trunk/files
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Awesome!
<cmaloney> So it's completely out of Launchpad?
<rick_h_> nope, bugs/releases still in
<cmaloney> But all of the dev is in github
<rick_h_> which sucks because you can't "Fixes bug ###"
<rick_h_> yea, all source it github
<cmaloney> that's a hell of an achievement.
<rick_h_> all devs using it there
<cmaloney> rick_h_: feature request. ;)
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> trevlar: the "pycon of woodworking" http://www.popularwoodworking.com/article/woodworking-america-2014-save-dates
<rick_h_> road trip!
<trevlar> ooooh.. woodcon
<rick_h_> get to try all the new fancy tools
<cmaloney> wood-con?
<brousch> How much wood would a wood-con con if a wood-con could con wood?
<rick_h_> wooooooood!
<rick_h_> ooooh, the front page of bookie is 2 says
<rick_h_> days
<rick_h_> usually 4 lately. Almost reaching more bookmarks per day than we show on the front page by default
<trevlar> and none of them are by admin!
<rick_h_> hah
<brousch> cmaloney: New background for you http://i.imgur.com/o04Kekz.jpg
<cmaloney> I have that one. :) It's awesome. ;)
<cmaloney> Every time I look at that kit I see something new.
<greg-g> a four piece kit is big enough for anyone
<greg-g> (not counting symbols, I guess, but you only need 3 of those) ;)
<greg-g> symbols? heh
<cmaloney> greg-g: Some drummers can't even manage a 4 piece
<cmaloney> and some drummers do amazing things with large kits
<jrwren> ME!
<cmaloney> depends on the drummer.
<cmaloney> Terry Bozzio's kit I think is borderline overkill
<cmaloney> but he uses it all
<cmaloney> Eddie Van Halen could likely get by with a 5 piece.
<greg-g> same with like Bobby Rock
<cmaloney> and I'm being generous.
<cmaloney> Or Rikki Rokkkkkkit.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-01-22
<jrwren> i need advice... what do ya'll use for playing remote music on android?
<jrwren> is there a foobar2000 with smb client for android? :)
 * rick_h_ just does google play and chromecasts it when it wants it off his phone
<jrwren> so... i have 300GB, 20k songs on a home server that I'd like to browse on device.
<jrwren> this particular device won't leave the house, will always be on home wifi
<jrwren> that is my use case.
<jrwren> i dunno if there is a upnp media client or what.
<rick_h_> I just uploaded mine to google music and have them all indexed and searchable
<rick_h_> I'm pretty sure it'll do 20k songs
<rick_h_> but yea, no idea myself
<cmaloney> I use the Squeezebox client
<cmaloney> but I haven't figured out how to get it to play through a ssh tunnel.
<jrwren> android squeezebox client any good?
<cmaloney> There's two parts to it
<jrwren> i want the audio coming out of hte android devcie
<cmaloney> squeezeplay is the audio player
<cmaloney> and there's several clients for driving it
<cmaloney> Orange Squeeze and Squeeze Commander are both awesome.
<cmaloney> Sorry, squeeze player
<rick_h_> check out the review https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=us.bmark.android ?!
<jrwren> WOW!
<jrwren> you did you pay
<rick_h_> hah, no idea who that is
<cmaloney> That's awesome!
<rick_h_> hmm, not been around much
<rick_h_> https://bmark.us/SisterX/recent
<cmaloney> http://reallifecomics.com/?comic=january-22-2014
<rick_h_> cmaloney: that's awesome
<rick_h_> and I not hate that man
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> There are few disapprovbing looks worse than the cat not liking my drumming to Slayer.
<brousch> I bet your wife has better ones
<brousch> I'm a Kivy core developer now. Go me!
<rick_h_> brousch: woot woot
<jrwren> i'm coming to the determination that flask kinda sucks
<brousch> I liked it for a while, but now I prefer Django
<jrwren> me too
<jrwren> i think because it leaks werkzeug, but it doesn't tell you that it leaks werkzeug
<jrwren> so the docs are deceptively incomplete
<rick_h_> heh
<jrwren> afaik If-None-Match and etag behavior is fixed. can not override
<cmaloney> Haven't played at all with Flask
<cmaloney> mostly because it feels incomplete.
<brousch> cmaloney: There's really no reason if you know Pyramid
<cmaloney> brousch: OK, I thought it was just me that thought that. ;)
<cmaloney> I mean Django is nice because it has a lot of magic should you decide to use their way of thinking
<cmaloney> and Pyramid has a great foundation
<cmaloney> so Flask just felt like "no magic, no floor"
<brousch> Remember it was created before Pyramid had really coalesced
<cmaloney> Yeah, but even Pylons was around
<cmaloney> It felt to me like the framework-builders framework
<cmaloney> or am I thinking of Bottle.
<rick_h_> flask got big because it was a layer on werkzeug and for the small one file app devs
<rick_h_> it grew up
<rick_h_> pyramid started out as a medium sized framework that now you can shrink to one file
<cmaloney> OK, thanks
<cmaloney> Reminds me of the 1 page RPGs out there that you can run an entire campaign off of but will likely need more work to make happen
<rick_h_> flask demos really well due to the small size and snippets and people went creating 'flask extensions'
<rick_h_> which ends up breaking and needing you to figure out what to fix anyway
<cmaloney> vs. the toolkit approaches that can be scaled back to be as simple as you want
<brousch> I kind of wish the Flaskers would move to Pyramid to grow their marketshare
<rick_h_> brousch: +1
<cmaloney> brousch: Would like that as well
<rick_h_> brousch: but there are a couple of crazy differences between armin and chris
<rick_h_> they work together in bits, but there are some things I don't think that will bridge
<rick_h_> (don't get your hopes up)
<cmaloney> It doesn't bother me that both exist though. Choice = good.
<brousch> These days I point people towards Pyramid when Django isn't a good fit
<cmaloney> Some people enjoy X Factor. I think it's terrible.
<jrwren> seriosly want to stab one of flask+werkzeug+uwsgi+nginx in the face right now.
<rick_h_> lol
<brousch> Use a lance and get them all
<jrwren> I have 2 servers, nearly identical. one always returns an etag (what I want) the other does not, IFF it returns gzipped chunked encoding
<jrwren> i expect nginx to handle completely the compress & chunked encoding bits
<jrwren> I don't expect it to strip the etag, but for all I know, it is.
<jrwren> gah.. and of course after spending HOURS on it, the moment I vent in an IRC channel, I fix the problem.
<brousch> You're welcome. I fixed it remotely
<widox>  #rubberduck
<jrwren> thanks guys
<jrwren> its some kind of difference in nginx 1.1.x and 1.4.4. ;_;
<cmaloney> jrwren: It's always the last thing you check. ;)
<cmaloney> whether that be car keys, versions of software.. ;)
<rick_h_> now you have to take all that stuff about flask back and give a talk on it at your next conference
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Now you're just being mean.
<cmaloney> Though if jrwren wants to present flask at MUG we have openings. ;)
<jrwren> the really bad part was that I thought I had gone back from 1.4.4 to 1.1.x, but I failed at apt-get
<jrwren> rick_h_ is right though. I hereby takeback all the bad things I said about flask and werkzeug and direct them all at nginx
<rick_h_> hah!
<rick_h_> my work here is done, hate all the things
<jrwren> anyone have tips on getting stacktraces from my python app when its run in uwsgi
<jrwren> i'm getting 500s but ONLY when run through uwsgi+nginx
<rick_h_> jrwren: run it from the cli uwsgi + config
<jrwren> i am
<jrwren> no traceback
<rick_h_> fix logging level on your app?
<rick_h_> I run http://paste.ubuntu.com/6799282/ (which is just my upstart script) via cli and I get pretty logging and eveything
<rick_h_> everything
<jrwren> i'm running uwsgi --plugin python --socket :9001 --module temp --callable app
<jrwren> all I get is [pid: 26673|app: 0|req: 4/4] 10.1.24.8 () {44 vars in 643 bytes} [Wed Jan 22 20:30:02 2014] GET /aif/rules/2.1 => generated 291 bytes in 11 msecs (HTTP/1.1 500) 2 headers in 84 bytes (1 switches on core 0)
<jrwren> pretty logging too?? *sigh*
<rick_h_> well pretty meaning dumps of all my crud
<rick_h_> this is on old stuff though. Maybe that's not true. Not sure who to blame, the framework/app logging or uwsgi
<trevlar> python question.. does this look OK if I submitted it as a PR?
<trevlar> https://github.com/fitztrev/powerline/commit/a382a5ab6232a1bbe9fcc9db734884d317d78436
<jrwren> its OK, sure.
<jrwren> needlessly deleting the has_errors local, so you could have the patch be smaller
<trevlar> well that was all it was used for. I just copied the syntax of the conditional above it on #23
<rick_h_> trevlar: :/ not really
<rick_h_> has_errors is a descriptive check that could turn into a full function later and the if conditional reads nicely
<rick_h_> if *some loud noise* return
<rick_h_> doesn't help me figure out wtf int(vim.eval('g:SyntasticLoclist.current().isEmpty()')) does
<trevlar> ok
<cmaloney> http://www.reddit.com/r/fossworldproblems/comments/1vukn6/i_wrote_a_great_piece_of_software_to_scratch_my/
<trevlar> so if I keep `has_errors`, I'll have to do an inverse on it. is this OK?
<trevlar> https://github.com/fitztrev/powerline/commit/cab3362377beb176dd8de55d660a25c0c60ef10d
<rick_h_> works for me
<trevlar> yay!
<trevlar> ok thanks for the help
<jrwren> thanks for your help #ubuntu-us-mi you rock!
<trevlar> indeed
<rick_h_> jcastro: the man
<jcastro> yo
<jcastro> showed off quickstart today
<jcastro> unf
<rick_h_> woot
<rick_h_> we want it in charm school videos
<rick_h_> make it happen
<rick_h_> :)
<jcastro> of course!
<jcastro> next one is at scale with a video
<rick_h_> now we're talking
<rick_h_> <3 the docker meeting notes with your loaded question :)
<jcastro> heh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-01-23
<cmaloney> God bless coffee house conversations
<rick_h_> hah
<cmaloney> I <3 hearing half-baked plans to get rich
<rick_h_> home sweet home and no ditches yay
<rick_h_> though the tow truck companies must be raking it in tonight
<rick_h_> so many ditches, so much room to fill
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Glad you made it home safely.
<cmaloney> I <3 the Royal Oak Public Library but they drive me nuts some times
<cmaloney> outside of the "we send images as newsletters"
<cmaloney> It looks like htey have a new site
<cmaloney> and it has a RSS feed
<cmaloney> so I click on it.
<cmaloney> http://www.ropl.org/?format=feed&type=rss
<rick_h_> woot https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.heikobehrens.pebblecam
<cmaloney> rick_h_: That's awesome.
<rick_h_> cmaloney: yea, now I just need my torso for and I can have all kinds of selfie fun
<brousch> Hm. My Google+ tab started chiming and told me a call was coming in to Hangouts. But my phone did nothing
<brousch> This is disturbing
<rick_h_> ruh roh ghost calls
<brousch> I guess I'll keep that tab closed so it doesn't intercept more calls
<jrwren> anyone know of a command which will color highlight a match like grep, but won't actually filter?
<jrwren> nevermind. stack overflow to the rescue
<waf> what's the answer?
<jrwren> grep -E 'willbecolored|^' everything matches ^ and it doesn't get colored
<waf> ah, nice
<greg-g> cmaloney: hahaha at that rss feed
<cmaloney> greg-g: Yeah, I'm thinking of sending a "WTF" note.
<cmaloney> Wow, IBM started the x86 revolution, and with today's sale of their servers to Lenovo IBM exits the x86 market.
<jrwren> do you mean by IBM PC ?
<cmaloney> I mean the IBM 5150 (aka the PC)
<cmaloney> What the fuckity fuck makes this a $119 book? http://www.amazon.com/Agile-Software-Architecture-Processes-Architectures/dp/0124077722
<greg-g> cmaloney: it used far too many capital A's in the title
<brousch> Must be a textbook
<greg-g> cmaloney: also, "Agile" in title twice
<greg-g> that too
<greg-g> "in the end, you'll pay $119 plus interest on your 10 year student loan"
<cmaloney> Stupid
<cmaloney> I read one book for Slashdot that was pretty good in discussing developing under a UNIX environment
<jrwren> it says architecture
<cmaloney> Would have been a good $35-$50 book
<cmaloney> But because it was a "textbook" it was over $100
<cmaloney> which, while good, was not worth that kind of cash
<cmaloney> Pearson still sells the K&R book as an eBook for what I would consider ridiculous cash
<brousch> ebooks are expensive to manufacturer
<brousch> All of those bits
<cmaloney> http://www.mypearsonstore.com/bookstore/c-programming-language-9780131103627?xid=PSED
<cmaloney> Well, considering it was published in 1988
<cmaloney> And one of the authors has passed on
<cmaloney> Anywho, just wondered if I was crazy for thinking a collection of essays on Agile might not warrant a $119 pricetag
<brousch> If you cannot afford it, you are not worthy of learning it
<waf> as a general rule I stay away from anything that capitalizes the word "Agile"
<cmaloney> waf: Yeah, now if it had said "Scrum vs. Kanban - DEATHMATCH!" I would have been all over it.
<cmaloney> https://bitbucket.org/benallard/galileo/src
<cmaloney> Apparently someone figured out how to get the fitbit to sync under Linux
<rick_h_> hah, if you build it, they will actually make it work
<cmaloney> There was a project called libfitbit but that seems to have gone by the boards.
<cmaloney> Neat thing is it's all Python
<cmaloney> And apparently the fitbit sends your password stuff in the clear.
<rick_h_> wheee
<rick_h_> lastpass to the rescue
<cmaloney> so I hope they enjoy my suer-secret password. :)
<cmaloney> Oh I don't need lastpass for this password. I can remember it quite well. ;)
<rick_h_> this isn't going to end well http://www.capetown.travel/content/page/language
<rick_h_> 11 "official" languages?!
<greg-g> .travel?
<cmaloney> That's insane
<cmaloney> also: first time I've seen a new TLD
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, it's been an insane day
<rick_h_> oh heh, didn't even notice that
<rick_h_> was just a google search
<rick_h_> cool
<cmaloney> hats off to greg-g for spotting it
<cmaloney> I didn't see it either.
<greg-g> :)
 * greg-g steals your hats
<greg-g> I lost my stocking cap, and since I cut all my hair off, I'm coldnow
<cmaloney> rick_h_: So are you heading to South Africa?
<rick_h_> cmaloney: yea, looks like it
<greg-g> probably to go chill at sabdfl's place
<rick_h_> heh, not quite
<greg-g> :)
<cmaloney> sabfdl's bunker of solitude.
<cmaloney> until Juju is complete you get no meat.
<cmaloney> Also I think I'm dyslexic because I've always seen "Rooibos" as "Roobios"
<rick_h_> hah, "you must agree to points 1 through 65...by 14.04"
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-01-24
<gamerchick02> oh lol rick_h_
<gamerchick02> also hello cmaloney
<cmaloney> lo
<gamerchick02> how's work treating you? i've been busy with this massive multi-region Jeep that's supposed to hit in 2016 or so.
<gamerchick02> Europe, Latum, SA, and China. oi
<cmaloney> Sounds like fun
<cmaloney> Work's OK.
<gamerchick02> it's a lot of back and forth
<rick_h_> yay! clean tests http://uploads.mitechie.com/clean_bookie_tests.png
<rick_h_> so who wants to review my pull request? https://github.com/bookieio/Bookie/pull/265 :)
<rick_h_> what I messy branch
<rick_h_> oh, this was freaking awesome today https://github.com/bookieio/breadability/pull/21
<gamerchick02> last link looks pretty cool, rick_h_
<rick_h_> yea, cool to get him on board. He ran with a fork for something like 8mo and didn't really want to work together
<rick_h_> cool to get him changing his mind on some of it
<greg-g> cool
<cmaloney> rick_h_: That's awesome!
<widox> rick_h_: !!  1,299 additions
<widox> - 1,257 deletions
<widox> that's a big PR
<rick_h_> widox: yea, I started out just testing out a pyramid class based view vs a function setup
<rick_h_> ended up messing with tests, logs, unicode all the things...got out of hand
<rick_h_> but it's kind of nice now :)
<rick_h_> thought I need to play with nose2 some more and get the coverage stuff back to working
<widox> :)
<brousch> This looked interesting, then I looked at the requirements https://github.com/globocom/thumbor
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, seems cool. Didn't try to get it up and running
<jsivak> anyone know of any 'nice' cookie packages/libraries (similar in spirit to the Requests package)?
<brousch> cookie package?
<jsivak> yes, for python
<jsivak> I've used cookiejar in the past, but was curious if there was any new hotness for managing/handling HTTP cookies
<jsivak> hmm.. maybe it wasn't cookiejar (as I re-read the PYPI description of that package..)
<brousch> There seems to be one in the standard lib
<jsivak> Ok.. was wondering if a pypi package was out that "wrapped it nice", like how Requests wraps urllib..
<jsivak> looking at 'cookies' now.
<jsivak> actually, after reviewing old/previous code, its easy/straightfoward to use WebOb's cookie functions.. it just been awhile since I had to mess with cookies.
<brousch> I've never had to deal with them
<jsivak> I'm going down the road of supporting single sign on with Ford's WSLX cookies.. I'm expecting pot-holes along the way. :)
<rick_h_> wheeeee SSO go go go
<jsivak> heh
<greg-g> this is fucking neat: http://git.kitenet.net/?p=gpg.git;a=blob;f=README.sss;hb=HEAD
<devinheitmuell-1> rick_h_: Now that I've just imported all my bookmarks into bookie, does that mean they are all public?
 * devinheitmuell-1 just realized that he can see everybody else's bookmarks.
<rick_h_> devinheitmuell-1: yes
<rick_h_> there's no private in bookie atm
<rick_h_> devinheitmuell-1: they'll have a tag you can delete them
<devinheitmuell-1> Crap!  MUST... DELETE... PORN....
<rick_h_> devinheitmuell-1: go go go
<devinheitmuell-1> :-)
<rick_h_> devinheitmuell-1: yea, I didn't want to deal with being responsible for private stuff on a beta/alpha install etc
<rick_h_> I don't have to worry about privacy policies and crap
<devinheitmuell-1> Not sure if you're interested in feedback, but it might have been nice for a little note on the "Import" page to that effect.  :-)
<rick_h_> devinheitmuell-1: I'm interested and you're right. I should put that on the import page. I'll file a bug. I should also ignore bookmarks with a private tag on them if I can tell that fact
<devinheitmuell-1> Interesting.  It also seems to think all my bookmarks are 44 years old.
<rick_h_> devinheitmuell-1: what did you export from?
<devinheitmuell-1> Chrome.
<rick_h_> devinheitmuell-1: I've seen that a couple of times now
<devinheitmuell-1> I can send you the html file if you like (so you can repro/debug yourself)
<rick_h_> ah, per the signup email, chrome bookmarks 'kind' of work magically.
<rick_h_> it's close enough to delicious that it works, but they don't have a timestamp I don't think
 * rick_h_ dbl checks
<devinheitmuell-1> Perhaps set the timestamps to currentdate() then?
<devinheitmuell-1> If the timestamp isn't present, seems it would be reasonable to have today's date rather than Jan 1, 1970.
<rick_h_> devinheitmuell-1: I'll look. I didn't want to do today's date because then it'd take over the front page with one user
<rick_h_> but that's not the user's fault/concern
<devinheitmuell-1> Ah, interesting point.
<rick_h_> I'll peek at the file and see what can be done
<rick_h_> I've seen it happen a couple of times, but also it usually works so figured it was something buggy in the user's import file.
<devinheitmuell-1> Anyway, food for thought.  Certainly no showstoppers for me.
<devinheitmuell-1> Do you want the import file?
<cmaloney> could introduce a flag for "show on front page" and anything that you cobble a date on is ineligible
<rick_h_> devinheitmuell-1: rgr, bugs filed on the private bits, though chrome doesn't have private/tags so not much I could do on that
<rick_h_> devinheitmuell-1: I can get it, it had to save it to process it so looking
<devinheitmuell-1> Ah, ok.
<rick_h_> thanks for the heads up
<rick_h_> ok, it does have an ADD_DATE
<devinheitmuell-1> Yeah, I'm not saying it should have been private - would have just been nice if it warned me prior to upload.
<rick_h_> I'll have to peek at why it fails to parse correctly
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Also I submitted Bookie for "One THing Well"
<cmaloney> So we'll see if that generates some traffic.
<rick_h_> https://github.com/bookieio/Bookie/issues/269
<rick_h_> cmaloney: hm, haven't heard of that. Cool
<cmaloney> It's a neat tumblr of utilities
<rick_h_> time to go get shots, bbl
<cmaloney> lu shot?
<cmaloney> flu rather?
<cmaloney> Got mine yesterday.
<cmaloney> Or is this the "rick_h_ smash" shots.
<devinheitmuell-1> tequila shots?
<rick_h_> cmaloney: naw, had the flu one for a while
<rick_h_> these are hep shots because of traveling to south africa
<cmaloney> Ah, fun fun
<rick_h_> yea, wheee
<cmaloney> btw: nothing better than listening to your show on http://metalinjection.fm while creating stuff.
<cmaloney> is what I keep telling myself. ;)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-01-25
<derekv> the name of this channel is all out of order
<derekv> should be, ubunut.mi.us
<derekv> according to what my fingers want to type
<derekv> because they remember a simpler time, when .mi.us was a relevent thingd
<derekv> rick_h_: http://codepad.org/KMrrSNBS my zshrc history sharing thing doesn't work
<derekv> zsh 5.0.2 (x86_64-apple-darwin13.0)
<derekv> idk if there is anything obvious i'm doing wrong
<jrwren> derekv: it used to be mi-us
<jrwren> but the standard is least specific to most specific.
<jrwren> so we renamed
<cmaloney> Evening
<cmaloney> Evening
<derekv> I'm thinking about creating a meetup
<derekv> actually I wonder if anyone would attend "Meetup! Haskell vs Lisp Deathmath! Fight!"
<rick_h_> derekv: only thing is mine are all caps
<rick_h_> derekv: not sure if that matters tbh
<rick_h_> # share history across terminal sessions
<rick_h_> setopt SHARE_HISTORY
<rick_h_> setopt EXTENDED_HISTORY
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> howdy
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-01-26
<greg-g> cmaloney: you got that check-in email?
<cmaloney> greg-g: ?
<cmaloney> Yeah, I got it.
<cmaloney> Not sure how to respond that isn't snarky.
<cmaloney> Afternoon
<rick_h_> party
<cmaloney> rick_h_: You've bbeen busy this afternoon
<rick_h_> cmaloney: devin hits bugs I fix. And this cough is keeping me in the guest room anyway :/
<cmaloney> Ah, lovely.
<cmaloney> So you're infirmed eh?
<rick_h_> just as I go shovel the lovely snow that keeps falling I come back in dying and the wife is tired of hearing it
<cmaloney> Probably because you're making her think of "work". ;)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-01-19
<greg-g> guess who gets to work on MLK day? this guy
<_stink_> D:
<brousch> Guess who works where MLK Day is not treated like a real holiday? this guy
<brousch> I might have to drop Dropbox. It keeps using a whole CPU even when it's not indexing, and uses nearly 1GB of RAM that bloats up to 4GB over a few days
<rick_h_> greg-g: woot woot
<mrgoodcat> brousch: i have to work too... >:[ you could give mega.co.nz a try. some people dont trust kim dotcom but the service offers some pretty nice features. (50gb free, client side encryption, nice client)
<brousch> I would move to Google Drive
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> brousch: I think the only places observing MLK day are govt., academic, or other civil-related places
<cmaloney> We're here at work as well
<rick_h_> we do! except we're on sprint so :(
<rick_h_> but swap day!
<cmaloney> rick_h_: That swap day is pretty awesome.
<_stink_> yeah i'll be trading MLK day off for president's day
<_stink_> soon
<_stink_> i got a new gig
<_stink_> starting next week
<brousch> Leaving WSU?
<_stink_> yarp
<_stink_> going to work for the Salesforce Foundation
<_stink_> as a dev
<_stink_> work from home
<brousch> What language do they use?
<_stink_> salesforce uses this bastard Java frankenstein on the server side
<cmaloney> _stink_: Nice!
<_stink_> called 'apex'
<cmaloney> Yeah, it's all Java all the way down
<_stink_> i think the middleware will be in whatever the dev wants
<_stink_> yeah the product is fully java
<_stink_> but we can write this apex stuff and deploy it
<cmaloney> Jython. ;)
<brousch> _stink_: Do you have Java experience?
<_stink_> brousch: naw, but i have a bunch of apex specifically
<_stink_> that was my primary job at WSU
<_stink_> and this job won't be java per se, just developing on the platform
<brousch> Ah
<rick_h_> _stink_: wtf, you didn'nt mention to us you were looking
<rick_h_> salesforce?! whoa
<cmaloney> (This is a rare opportunity to see rick_h_ catch up in IRC. ;) )
<_stink_> haha
<rick_h_> heh, yea sprinting is sprinting
<rick_h_> big team across 3 rooms this one
<_stink_> rick_h_: i wasn't really... it's the first time i've applied for a job since joining WSU
<rick_h_> _stink_: well congrats man
<_stink_> thanks!
<_stink_> rick_h_: you're overseas?
<rick_h_> _stink_: yea, london for a big work sprint
<rick_h_> well, big for our team, but not big big
<_stink_> awesome, i hope you get a chance to enjoy
<rick_h_> heh, we'll see
<rick_h_> london in winter isn't exactly wooooo!
<rick_h_> but in two weeks summer in cape town so that'll be :)
<_stink_> wow, nice
<greg-g> brousch: rick_h_ luckily, we just instated a "floating holiday" program here at WMF: you get 6 days on Jan 1st, then another 6 on July 1st. By default they're used on the normal holidays (MLK, Presidents, july 4th, etc) but you can also work those days and bank them up and use them whenever else.
<rick_h_> greg-g: cool, yea I've got to work for the sprint so I just moved it to our SD vacation in May
<rick_h_> woot for vacation without using days off
<greg-g> yeah, good deal
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-01-20
<jrwren> greg-g: only 12 days a year? is that separate from vaca?
<greg-g> jrwren: yeah
<greg-g> vacation starts at 12/year, goes up to 20/year (at 4 years).
<greg-g> (by default, everything is negotiable)
<greg-g> so Holiday+Vacation= between 24 and 32
<cmaloney> Evening
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> Morning
<_stink_> yo
<rick_h_> wheeee
<brousch> rick_h_: We do not need your potty reports
<rick_h_> brousch: but it so makes your day :)
<rick_h_> http://techcrunch.com/2015/01/20/ubuntu-of-things/ kind of cool, didn't know about the robotics company
<cmaloney> Nice
<brousch> I was just reading https://insights.ubuntu.com/2015/01/20/ubuntu-core-on-internet-things/
<jcastro> rick_h_, tons of snow down here today
<rick_h_> jcastro: oh yea? /me hopes the wife hit the snow blower well
 * rick_h_ checks snow counts for house
<cmaloney> I think we're getting an inch at best
<rick_h_> heh, wunderground is telling me accumulation for the house is abour 2-3cm so guess about an inch is right :)
<cmaloney> I think it's because jcastro is closer to the water
<jcastro> am I?
<cmaloney> jcastro: yeah, closer to Lake MIchigan
<brousch> cmaloney: I got a dusting
<brousch> Maybe 1cm
<cmaloney> Haven't looked outside in a bit
<dzho> thanks for the Ubuntu Core links, folks
<brousch> dzho: Do you work on that?
<dzho> no
<dzho> just might not have heard about it as soon
<dzho> the sort of thing the local LUG and hackerspace might enjoy seeing
<dzho> brousch: with the info deluge of today, I think groups like this and others, of similar-but-not-identical interest, can help each other by sort of curating this news for each other.
<aisrael> We got about an inch on the other side of the river.
<rick_h_> party time
<rick_h_> europe needs to get crown royal here
<brousch> WTF. I thought you would be swimming in fine wine
<rick_h_> did that ast dinner
<rick_h_> loively
<rick_h_> lovely 2010 cab
<cmaloney> Dude, you're in the land of Irish Whiskey and Scotch
<cmaloney> Crown Royal is a North American thing
<cmaloney> See if you can get some Jamesons
<rick_h_> jack and coke as a fallback
<cmaloney> You're going to pay a mint for Jack and Coke. ;)
<cmaloney> unless Jack is more prevalent over there.
<greg-g> wait, you're in the UK and ordering Jack?
<greg-g> you want to never come home?
<rick_h_> yea it vas 16 pounds for two of them
<rick_h_> what am i supposed to order?
<_stink_> i'm sure he's already identifiable as an American
<_stink_> why not play the part
<cmaloney> Heh
<brousch> What with his lasso and hawaiian shirts
<cmaloney> Well the fact that you're mixing whiskey and coke is a dead giveaway. :)
<brousch> Hm, I can't seem to import the ubuntu-core OVA on windows
<brousch> strange
<cmaloney> You probably want to go with a blended Scotch
<cmaloney> From what I'm reading that tends toward the sweet end of the spectrum
<greg-g> 8 pounds per drink?! that's like $100!
<greg-g> (ish)
<cmaloney> Which is where Crown ROyal / Bourbon is
<_stink_> haha
<cmaloney> Though it won't be nearly as sweet
<cmaloney> Fucking hell, Crown ROyal is owned by a London company
<cmaloney> Diageo
<cmaloney> They bought the assets of Seagrams when they folded
<greg-g> see also: Budweiser
<cmaloney> We'll not be going there
<greg-g> not that company, the dutch one
<cmaloney> Let's just say if they have Johnny Walker and Guinness but no Crown Royal they're full of shit. :)
<cmaloney> or they just don't like those purple bags.
<cmaloney> I now know more about scotch and bourbon than I did before. :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-01-21
<JonEdney> Howdy folks
<cmaloney> Hello
<JonEdney> It's been a while since I've kept up on anything. Is there still meetups in the downriver area?
<JonEdney> Hmm. *Are there still meetups
<JonEdney> Grammar isn't my strong suite.
<cmaloney> I'm not sure.
<cmaloney> ColonelPanic001: ^^
<_stink_> i think CHC downriver stopped a while back
<cmaloney> Thats what I thought
<cmaloney> Good morning
<_stink_> yo
<ColonelPanic001> JonEdney_v2: uh
<ColonelPanic001> not now.... but there could be.
<ColonelPanic001> in that, it'd be neat if there were
<ColonelPanic001> we need to start a downriver lug.
<ColonelPanic001> or a splinter group from MUG
<ColonelPanic001> Da Mug
<ColonelPanic001> Downriver Area MUG
<ColonelPanic001> JonEdney_v2: you from downriver?
<cmaloney> No need to splinter. Just come to the meetings. :)
<cmaloney> We won't judge.
<cmaloney> (much)
<cmaloney> ;)
<ColonelPanic001> meet closer :P
<cmaloney> It's not like we're in Ohio
<cmaloney> Sheesh
<ColonelPanic001> ohio is easier for me to get to :P
<cmaloney> How far downriver are you?
<ColonelPanic001> and I have an offspring I have to do stuff for now, needy bastard
<ColonelPanic001> Southgate
<ColonelPanic001> exit 37ish on I-75, maybe a mile or two from there
<cmaloney> WTF, you got married without letting anyone know and now you've procreated?
<ColonelPanic001> court gag order
<cmaloney> Pretty soon you'll be telling us you have an underground bunker in Southgate
<ColonelPanic001> matter of national security
<ColonelPanic001> I would have a bunker if I could.
<cmaloney> (congrats!)
<cmaloney> It's 46 minutes away acc. to Google Maps.
<cmaloney> Straight shot up US-24
<ColonelPanic001> (thanks! Nov 14th, fwiw)
<cmaloney> aka: Telegraph. :)
<cmaloney> Or you could take the Southfield but I hate that road as well
<ColonelPanic001> yeah, so coming to MUG is a "leave for work in the morning and come back sometime at night" day... maybe when it's less of a big deal to leave my wife to care for the spawn the entire day. I try to give her a break when I get home
<cmaloney> I used to live in Belleville and come to MUG.
<cmaloney> Understandable.
<ColonelPanic001> oooooooh sorry, Mister I'll-drive-anywhere :P
<ColonelPanic001> honestly I just hate driving
<ColonelPanic001> working from home spoiled me. I know how good it can be
<cmaloney> Well it bugs me when people say anything under an hour is "too far"
<ColonelPanic001> it is far. :P
<ColonelPanic001> that's minimum 1.5h total. plus time for the meeting, etc.
<ColonelPanic001> you guys do have a much stronger presense out there though, I do want to go sometime
<brousch> ColonelPanic001: I encourage my wife to take a night off each week.
<ColonelPanic001> same
<ColonelPanic001> get home and kick her out
<ColonelPanic001> into the snow
<ColonelPanic001> and then she whines about "I DON'T HAVE A COAT OR CAR KEYS"
<ColonelPanic001> how ungrateful
<brousch> My night off is a user group or maker social. She goes to a knitting club
<ColonelPanic001> yeah, I could work it in like that.
<ColonelPanic001> she stays home with the kid though, so at least for a little while, when it's constant attention stuff, she works harder than I do during the day with him
<ColonelPanic001> listen I have to try and not be murdered by my wife
<ColonelPanic001> that's pretty much the best way to sum up our relationship. Each day, I say "how can I prevent my inevitable murder today?"
<ColonelPanic001> and usually, it's "give her a break from the kid after work"
<ColonelPanic001> that bumps my survival chances into the double digits at least
<brousch> Yeah, it is different with an infant
<ColonelPanic001> meh. He's not bad. I'm a misanthropic hermit anyway
<brousch> So you will have to take the day off of work on MUG days to watch the kid. She can go out all day. Then she watches the kid at night while you MUG
<ColonelPanic001> I do have the vacation time to do it...
<brousch> Distance is not a valid complaint. I drove from GR in the rain for MUG
<ColonelPanic001> brousch: your bad decisions don't require me to make bad decisions ;)
<ColonelPanic001> nah, that is a long drive. I forgot you're from GR. You go to GrrCon?
<brousch> It wasn't bad. I got a free dinner and gas money!
<ColonelPanic001> if not for it being right around Jenny's due date, I would have probably gone to that, it looks neat
<ColonelPanic001> brousch: free dinner changes everything
<brousch> I went to GrrCON two years
<ColonelPanic001> awesome. worth driving from Detroit?
<brousch> The talks scare me too much
<brousch> OH definitely
<ColonelPanic001> I already requested it at work
<ColonelPanic001> cool.
<ColonelPanic001> think I requested GrrCon, Ohio LinuxFest, and a couple in detroit itself (self conf, mobile self conf, api craft, converge)
<ColonelPanic001> we'll see. some of those cost the university essentially nothing, so they're likely.I
<ColonelPanic001> my wife did give me permission to go to Penguicon this year, too. Might do just one day, not sure yet.
<_stink_> remember that such permission is always revokable
<ColonelPanic001> it is true that it was not given in writing
<ColonelPanic001> I should make her do that. And then have Rob notarize it
<_stink_> yes
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Need to figure out when the release party will be at Penguicon
<cmaloney> Feh, I'm a bottleneck.
<ColonelPanic001> real cmaloneys have curves.
<ColonelPanic001> two of them, convex, one on each side
<ColonelPanic001> concave, rather
<ColonelPanic001> whatever, I barely got sleep
<ColonelPanic001> I can't be expected to know "shapes" and "basic human knowledge"
<cmaloney> heh
<JonEdney> ColonelPanic001, yes I'm out of downriver. Lincoln Park specifically.
<JonEdney> (In and out all day, sorry for delay)
<ColonelPanic001> np, nice
<ColonelPanic001> I'm grew up in Lincoln Park, moved a couple miles to the south
<ColonelPanic001> I'm grew up. ffs.
<JonEdney> lol
<JonEdney> I grew up in Woodhaven, been in LP for about 2 years now.
<ColonelPanic001> my dad was from about that area. Brownstown, went to Woodhaven's HS, iirc
<ColonelPanic001> I grew up in southern lp, in southgate now
<ColonelPanic001> the Land of Restaurants
<ColonelPanic001> if there were some sort of computer group, lug, whatever, would you be interested? I've always kinda half kicked around the idea, but didn't know who would be involved anyway, but lately seems like I could think of more people
<ColonelPanic001> just thinking out loud here, no commitment or anything
<JonEdney> I'd be interested. I'm still a novice in comparison to most, but actively studying for my Linux+ and web development, I'd be game.
<ColonelPanic001> awesome. If something should happen, I will make sure to come here and inform you
<JonEdney> Sounds good! I have to go grab kids from school. I'll be around, thank you.
<ColonelPanic001> I've joked about starting the "downriver society for advanced computing" just so I could call it "dsac" like a giggling 14 year old, but maybe we should do something like that. with a better name.
<ColonelPanic001> np, thanks
<brousch> There's an actual place called Browntown?
<_stink_> ..
<ColonelPanic001> Brownstown
<ColonelPanic001> yes
 * brousch snickers
<_stink_> tsk tsk
<ColonelPanic001> o.o
<rick_h_> hmm
<ColonelPanic001> jayis is another WSU person
<ColonelPanic001> we're invading
<jayis> :D
<rick_h_> ruh roh
<cmaloney> heh
<ColonelPanic001> JonEdney: you around? You have caused so much trouble.
<ColonelPanic001> ./j #downriverug
<ColonelPanic001> we're tossing ideas around and stuff
<JonEdney> hahaha
<lmorchard> cmaloney: Heya, are folks still gathering for CHC in royal oak? thinking I might break my hermit streak soon and try to start coming out again
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-01-22
<cmaloney> God dammit.
<cmaloney> The one night that I decide to not head on out. :)
<cmaloney> lmorchard: Yeah, we're still meeting. :)
<cmaloney> Was just tired this evening and rick_h_ wasn't heading out so I decided to skip
<cmaloney> Morning
<rick_h_> party
<cmaloney> So it is said
<jrwren> what is so good about it?
<cmaloney> It's one more day that the universe hasn't decided to smite us
<cmaloney> I think that's a good start
<cmaloney> I <3 Detroit
<cmaloney> They've scheduled Rush on June 15th (a Monday)
<cmaloney> And they'll fill the place
<cmaloney> because Detroit is the home of Rock and Roll
<cmaloney> 14th rather
<cmaloney> which is a Sunday
<cmaloney> Actually all of these dates are kind of wonky
<jcastro> smoser, around?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-01-23
<rick_h_> morning
<_stink_> yo
<brousch> Dawg
<_stink_> i heard
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> ?
<smoser> jcastro: here now.
<jcastro> I forgot what I was going to ask
<smoser> fair enough.
<cmaloney> This is why email is better. :)
<_stink_> cmaloney++
<greg-g> cmaloney: which is also why I have the contentlessping.pl extension/plugin/whatever they call them/ installed in irssi
<greg-g> "script"
<_stink_> ping greg-g
<greg-g> _stink_: name first
<_stink_> haha
<greg-g> bug report!
 * _stink_ shakes fist at regex
<_stink_> greg-g: ping
<greg-g> _stink_: You sent me a contentless ping.  This is a contentless pong.  Please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I am around.
<_stink_> o/
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> the funny part is that in my view, my response comes before your ping
<greg-g> it looks like this to me:
<greg-g> 11:01 <    greg-g> _stink_: You sent me a contentless ping.  This is a contentless pong.  Please  provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I am around.
<greg-g> 11:01 <   _stink_> greg-g: ping
<_stink_> ah weird - Irssi::settings_add_str() in the script must run before anything incoming gets written
<jrwren> smoser: congrats on the kid. I just found out.
<smoser> jrwren: thanks.
<cmaloney> Sheesh! What is with people popping out kids without telling anyone
<cmaloney> smoser: Congratulations!
<brousch> cmaloney: You're next
<jrwren> cmaloney: privacy i would guess.
<cmaloney> brousch: We're getting Kid-in-a-can
<cmaloney> Leave the kid in a can for 18 years, remove when mature and then send out into the world.
<brousch> Adopting from China?
<cmaloney> Nah, I mean it'll be a well-adjusted kid
<cmaloney> none of that whole messy maturity stuff
<cmaloney> Ask JoDee about it sometime
<cmaloney> it's her idea.
<smoser> hey, yeah, thanks.
<smoser> thats one of the reasons i wasn't there at mug this last time.
<smoser> jrwren: when did you start at canonical ?
<jrwren> smoser: July 3rd.
<jrwren> smoser: when did you get bonus for my hiring? :)
<smoser> cool. and you're still here, right :)
<smoser> i dont think i got it yet. isnt it pathetic that i dont knwo..
<smoser> but for some reason i think that happens at 6 months of hired
<smoser> dont knwo for sure though
<jrwren> smoser: yes, I'm in London at a sprint right now.
<aisrael> I think it's at three months. jcastro, did you get your bonus for me?
<jcastro> I DID.
<_stink_> oh no, we have to admit to spawning now?
<_stink_> well in that case, we are expecting #3 in July.
<cmaloney> _stink_: Congratulations!
<cmaloney> See? That wasn't so hard? ;)
<_stink_> thanks!
<_stink_> i got past my fear.
<brousch> _stink_: I saw that on FB at least
<_stink_> yeah that's the best way to give out info
<_stink_> have my wife tag in me a facebook post
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> YOU DID THIS TO MEEEEEE
<cmaloney> !!?!!?!1
<_stink_> hah, the question marks carry the message there
 * cmaloney is listening to Trauma - Renewal Through Collapse
<cmaloney> This band should be much bigger than they are.
<cmaloney> I swear Poland is like my Mecca for Death Metal
<rick_h_> evening
<_stink_> howdy
<ColonelPanic001> hi
<greg-g> afternoon
<cmaloney> Dayloght
<cmaloney> Daylight even
<brousch> whatyoutalkinaboutwillis?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-01-24
<cmaloney> Morning
<rick_h_> phew, home at last
<brousch> This is crazy stuff. They are working on a makerspace+k-12 school+universities+more in the old Steelcase Pyramid building. We're talking 665,000sqft
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Welcome back
<rick_h_> ty much
<rick_h_> just have to make it  2 more hours before bed
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-01-25
<cmaloney> Good morning
<jrwren> GOOD MORNING!!!
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> Back in the USA?
<jrwren> yes.
<jrwren> It is good to be here.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-01-25
<rick_h_> morning
<mrgoodcat> morning to you as well
<cmaloney> morning
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-01-26
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h_> morn
<cmaloney> how goes?
<rick_h_> so so, lots of party fun today
<rick_h_> how goes it down your way?
<cmaloney> Eh, it goes
<rick_h_> heh
<cmaloney> hoping to make it out to the CVGA to drop off more video games
<cmaloney> calling the doc to schedule an appt. because I'm getting old.
<cmaloney> Fun fun
<cmaloney> and this is the last week before launching something for work
<cmaloney> which is always fun times
<rick_h_> wheeee
<Scary_Guy> hi
<mrgoodcat> hi 2u2
<cmaloney> Hello
<jrwren> CVGA? drop off? are you purging your collection?
<cmaloney> jrwren: Donating parts of my collection
<cmaloney> Stuff that is more hassle than it's worth to keep. :)
<jrwren> cmaloney: go a list? I know a guy who collects.
<cmaloney> jrwren: 's OK.
<cmaloney> I'm looking more for folks to get some use out of it
<cmaloney> and this is in line with one of my goals - opening a museum
<cmaloney> keeping the stuff that really interests me
<jrwren> ah! I see.
<cmaloney> and giving others a chance to experience this stuff first-hand.
<cmaloney> Stuff they might not see otherwise.
<jrwren> yup. Well, Mike is into cabinets, so if you have any boards or cabinet parts. He restores those and runs them. Otherwise, he's probably not interested
<cmaloney> Yeah, I know some collectors
<cmaloney> it's more hassle than it's worth. :)
<cmaloney> Keeping the big machines. :)
<jrwren> I agree.
<cmaloney> (and the Amiga, because it's awesome, and because the spirit of Jay Miner lives on)
<jrwren> whoo hoo!
<cmaloney> But the 5200? I'll never play it and most of the great games got ported to the 8-bit
<jrwren> but... rare!
<cmaloney> (and most of the games started on the 8-bit)
<cmaloney> Meh. :)
<cmaloney> Rare because those controllers suck
<jrwren> haha! yup
<jrwren> I think the amiga ports are compat with atari sticks. have you played any amiga games?
<cmaloney> Yeah, I have
<cmaloney> Amiga is awesome.
<cmaloney> I wish I would have figured that out a long time ago
<cmaloney> but the commodore hate was palpable.
<jrwren> I understand. I much prefered Atari, mostly because the basic on 800XL had drawing primitives.
<cmaloney> Wel, the Atari 800 was a great machine
<cmaloney> unfortunately undocumented until later in its life
<cmaloney> Stupid Atari
<cmaloney> They did some pretty bone-headed maneuvers
<cmaloney> And I never got around to picking up an Atari ST
<cmaloney> Though I think it's because I was saving myself for Linux. ;)
<jrwren> ha! same here.
<jrwren> so glad I never programmed on DOS 16bit and that segmented memory insanity
<jrwren> well, I did, but not much
<cmaloney> Yeah, I played with it and found it ridiculous
<cmaloney> "how the hell should I know what my 'hello world' program needs"
<Scary_Guy> php7, apparetnly :P
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-01-27
<n0p_> damn, just got bit by a combination of `unattended-upgrades`, a prod server missing a pin, and http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-2881-1/
<n0p_> unattended-upgrades just restarted a prod mysql instance ;_;
<n0p> (takes 20 min to restart a mysql server with our load)
<cscheib_> n0p: ouch
<cmaloney> n0p: Ugh
<rick_h_> good news is it's back up? :)
<jrwren> wow, 20min sql server restarts?!? wtf? what would cause that? Locks?
<n0p> jrwren: even on a clean shutdown, it still needs to look at every db/table for some strange reason
<n0p> mind you we have thousands of DBs each with >hundred tables
<jrwren> with many TPS?
<jrwren> zomg, I just asked for TPS report.
<n0p> NR reports ~5k/queries per second, not sure how many are writes
<jrwren> still, that is enough to make slowness understandable.
<jrwren> sounds like a fun problem to solve! :)
<n0p> it's pretty smooth right now as long as we move traffic *before* a db restart
<n0p> honestly, the system fails gracefully, it's just annoying to shuffle in the middle of the night
<cmaloney> blergh
<rick_h_> that good eh?
<cmaloney> It's fun to play with production systems that are akin to magic boxes that nobody wants to offend.
<cmaloney> Lest they incur wrath and stop performing.
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> yea, the whole 'production is not like anything else' is the 'someone please kill me' of the world
<rick_h_> which jrwren knows even we deal with :P
<cmaloney> Well, we're using a platform which folks don't quite understand
<rick_h_> always helpful
<cmaloney> which apparently has a hang-up when you create two IDs that match
<cmaloney> and we're not sure how to clear out data in there
<cmaloney> for an eventual "go-live"
<cmaloney> which from my perspective is rather broken if the answer isn't "truncate that mo-fo"
<cmaloney> So I have no less than three different ways to denote that this record is indeed "test"
<cmaloney> because adding a new field is easier than bending a system to our will.
<rick_h_> hah
<cmaloney> and previous system used integers, so appending "test" does bad things.
<cmaloney> prepending rather
<jrwren> we are dealing with it right now exactly... even though staging is almost exactly like production... it still doesn't have teh load that production has. We almost need something to put load on staging similar to the load production has.
<cmaloney> And they wonder why I listen to angry music and drink coffee
<cmaloney> because I can't drink on the job.
<jrwren> so really... its almost always true, production is not like anything else.
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, interesting there though. We could 'simulate' load by just mirroring apache logs over to production with a diff charm watching that
<rick_h_> jrwren: that'd be interesting to try out sometime
<rick_h_> near real-time duplication with a url rewrite rule and curl
<jrwren> rick_h_: something to watch the logs and create the same requests?  yeah, that would be awesome.
<jrwren> rick_h_: gets a little more tricky with http bodies for POST/PUT requests
<rick_h_> jrwren: true enough
<rick_h_> jrwren: just an interesting replay idea, you're right that it's not that simple
<jrwren> rick_h_: would make a SWEET cross model charm
<rick_h_> jrwren: :)
<cmaloney> https://plus.google.com/+CarlosSanchezMusic4Life/posts/J26drRFDfob
<mrgoodcat> what time is chc tonight?
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: 7pm
<mrgoodcat> thanks
<rick_h_> np
<mrgoodcat> think i might make it tonight
<mrgoodcat> i hope
<mrgoodcat> haven't been in months
<rick_h_> party
<cmaloney> Sweet
<rick_h_>  /join #snappy
<rick_h_> doh
<cmaloney> heh
<mrgoodcat> at least its just a leading space. i frequently type bash commands into my irc client
<ColonelPanic001> I hate when I do sql in the terminal
<ColonelPanic001> after having done db stuff for a while
<ColonelPanic001> instead of ls I start typing "select" and just stop and feel bad
<jrwren> select * from files;
<ColonelPanic001> where the_one_i_need = 1;
<jrwren> i don't pipe ls to grep very often
<mrgoodcat> i do
<mrgoodcat> anybody know how you would disable usb except for keyboards?
<n0p> s/keyboards/keyboard/ + superglue :-P
<n0p> mrgoodcat: https://github.com/dkopecek/usbguard ? no recommondation, just googled
<n0p> found via query: https://www.google.com/search?q=whitelist%20usb%20devices%20with%20dbus
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: I'm curious what you're attempting? :)
<cmaloney> One theory: Make it so the USB key can't be removed once inserted
<cmaloney> eg: some physical clamp. :)
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: http://grizzhacks.com
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: modern windows kernels have group policy which can do it. are you asking on linux?
<mrgoodcat> one project idea was to make a door lock that uses yubikey as the key
<mrgoodcat> but the problem is that USB isn't really somethign we want to expose to the outside world
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: yea would likely run on a raspberry pi zero
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: remove all usb kernel modules except hsb_hid
<jrwren> *usb_hid
<jrwren> that should get you to KB/Mouse only
<mrgoodcat> i guess that's reasonable
<mrgoodcat> i was thinking there was probably a way to do it with modprobe but removing the drivers sounds simpler
<cmaloney> Not sure that would prevent an attack though
<cmaloney> just reduce the overall footprint
<mrgoodcat> right because you still have to prevent problems that can be caused with the keyboard
<mrgoodcat> catching signals is the obvious thing
<mrgoodcat> but you have to make sure there's no way to shell out
<jrwren> you could write some dbus module to bind first inserted kb and ignore all other usb ids
<mrgoodcat> run the program under a user with no shell is also obvious
<mrgoodcat> the other idea was to make the brain an arduino and just implement only the functionality we need
<mrgoodcat> greatly reduced attack surface
<mrgoodcat> also greatly improved lifespan on the battery backup in case of power failure
<cmaloney> Yeah, that's a better approach
<cmaloney> have the Arduino communicate with the RPi
<cmaloney> That way the Arduino presents a flattened surface and communicates in a secure way with the RPi
<mrgoodcat> well it would elminate the rpi
<mrgoodcat> once you have an arduino the rpi doesn't have a need
<cmaloney> Au contraire
<cmaloney> the RPi serves the internet connectivity need. ;)
<cmaloney> because having your door lock as a hacking target is the goal. ;)
<jrwren> i never grocked the whole paring arduino and rpi
<jrwren> i'd always use one
<jrwren> if I need inet, i'd use an rpi and no arduino
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: ha that does appear to be the goal
<cmaloney> Today is when I wish I wasn't afraid of clowns so I could have joined the circus.
<cmaloney> jrwren: Arduino is great for analog data entry
<cmaloney> and certain shields work better on ARduino
<jrwren> isn't rpi GPIO good for analog?
<cmaloney> so it can do the data collection and send the input to the RPi proper
<jrwren> ah, so part availability, that makes sense
<mrgoodcat> and the rpi is easier to actually process the data on
<mrgoodcat> for this particular application though i think the arduino will be sufficient
<cmaloney> But it makes it less interesting. :)
<mrgoodcat> i'd argue that it makes it more interesting
<jrwren> i can imagine processing data on an arduino being very limited
<mrgoodcat> eh well obviously you're memory limited
<mrgoodcat> but a yubikey isn't exactly a ton of data
<mrgoodcat> and you have to write everything in c afaik
<mrgoodcat> and you want to watch out for external dependencies in libraries and whatnot
<mrgoodcat> the real problem is data storage though. arduino doesn't have persistent storage for programs afaik
<jrwren> slow clock is what I was thinking.
<mrgoodcat> oh like it would process too slowly
<mrgoodcat> I don't see that being a problem with aes (the encryption used by the yubikey)
<cmaloney> AES is supposed to be gentle on the CPU
<cmaloney> at least it shows up a lot in hardware-based crypto
<jrwren> for some definition of gentle, but aren't a lot of arduinos like 1Mhz?
<jrwren> 1Mhz 8bit at that, so to do AES with it its gonna take many clocks to do 256bit math
<mrgoodcat> 128 bit key
<mrgoodcat> for yubikey
<mrgoodcat> 32 bytes of encrypted data
<mrgoodcat> the crypto++ library requires 16 cycles per byte plus 1041 to set up the key
<mrgoodcat> so 512 cycles for the decryption
<mrgoodcat> 1553 total including key setup
<mrgoodcat> obviously that's on a 64 bit system though so it's easier to do the math
<mrgoodcat> as long as the decryption time is under a quarter of a second though i doubt it would be bothersome
<cmaloney> https://github.com/DavyLandman/AESLib
<cmaloney> Not sure if yubikey is 128bit
<cmaloney> There's another library that will handle 128 - 256bit
<cmaloney> http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=88890.0
<jrwren> cool
<mrgoodcat> yubikey is 128
<mrgoodcat> already got that cloned down to play with heh
<mrgoodcat> fun fact of the day: sending a string to an arduino to be decrypted and reading the result back is in fact _not_ the fastest way to decrypt aes encrypted data
<mrgoodcat> it's actually not as slow as you might think though
<gamerchick02> cmaloney, guess who just got a pebble time round? :-D
<gamerchick02> and crap he's not here. oh well.
<gamerchick02> rick_h_ do you rock a pebble?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-01-28
<cmaloney> gamerchick02: That's awesome!
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: no, my moto360 bit the big one so I just got a normal watch that doesn't need replacing every year
<gamerchick02> :)
<rick_h_> I thoght about a round pebble but they don't have it in steel, it's only 2 days battery, and it's $$
<gamerchick02> i'm loving it right now
<gamerchick02> it's great
<gamerchick02> it's smaller. that's why i went with the round. :)
<gamerchick02> i had a gift card
<gamerchick02> two. so i got $125 off.
<mrgoodcat> this is the new space for helloworld http://www.helloworld.com/insights/blog/culture/2015/11/13/it-was-a-big-move-on-our-part/
<cmaloney> Good morning
<_stink_> yo
<rick_h_> morning
 * dzho looks outside
<dzho> yes, it is morning
<rick_h_> thanks for checking. Always good to make sure one's working with sound assumptions
<dzho> despite the -us-mi there could be a cross time-zone thing in operation
<dzho> *could* be
 * rick_h_ looks for greg-g...I think we're safe for a bit more
<dzho> heh
<dzho> still sleeping, or in the final throes of an all-nighter, either way
<cmaloney> heh
<mrgoodcat> mornin
<widox> morning, from the land of PST
 * widox yawns
<rick_h_> widox: partying hard?
<widox> rick_h_: trying to keep somewhat in sync with works EST schedule :-/
<widox> I'm in Portland, OR until March
<rick_h_> widox: nice!
<rick_h_> widox: say hi to my coworkers
<rick_h_> for work or for relaxing?
<widox> left the warmth of the south for clouds and rain :D
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> it's winter
<widox> rick_h_: part of my 6 months of traveling
<rick_h_> 6mo? nice!
<widox> yeah, left in Nov will be back in Detroit in April
<rick_h_> snowbird!
<widox> hehe
<rick_h_> and no snow here
<widox> I'm sure not missing any cold and snow ;)
<cmaloney> widox: Hey, welcome back!
<cmaloney> We've missed you
<widox> cmaloney: :)
<widox> been awawy from the computer a lot more outside of working
<widox> especially in portland, so many places to check out
<rick_h_> I bet
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> That's why we need you back in Michigan. ;)
<mrgoodcat> can anybody suggest an xmpp client that doesn't suck?
<_stink_> bitlbee?
<jrwren_> Messages.app
 * jrwren_ ducks
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> i have a macbook
<mrgoodcat> i was using iChat for a while
<mrgoodcat> it's not ideal to say the least
<jrwren_> sounds ancient
<jrwren_> it hasn't been called ichat for 5yrs
<jrwren_> or, well, maybe at least 3
<mrgoodcat> oh well messages then
<jrwren_> lol
<mrgoodcat> i'm on el capitan
<jrwren_> my wife uses pidgin
<mrgoodcat> pidgin doesn't work on mac afaik
<jrwren_> yeah, http://www.pidgin.im/download/mac/  says they recommend adium
<mrgoodcat> adium is terrible
<mrgoodcat> i tried it for a while
<mrgoodcat> it loses connection frequently and has trouble connecting quite often
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: I have yet to find one
<cmaloney> Pidgin is the best, and that's terrible.
<mrgoodcat> fortunately it is easy to set up bitlbee
<mrgoodcat> thanks jrwren_
<mrgoodcat> er _stink_
<mrgoodcat> sry
<mrgoodcat> lol
<_stink_> jasure
<gamerchick02> https://plus.google.com/+AmyH42/posts/92PTH2pntnY here's my pebble time round! :)
<gamerchick02> the lighting is kind of crap because it's at work but eh.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-01-29
<Scary_Guy> I heard good things about xabber
<Scary_Guy> I use bitlbee on here, but it's kind of a pain
<mrgoodcat> I just found out we might be switching to IRC anyways so it's only temorary
<mrgoodcat> temporary
<rick_h_> morning
<mrgoodcat> morn
<cmaloney> morning
<Scary_Guy> Why must Chromium eat 75% of my memory?
<mrgoodcat> Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<Scary_Guy> I've only got 4gb but still :/
<Scary_Guy> I should clearify that's one normal window and one incogneto window
<mrgoodcat> Chrome using 300M on my system
<mrgoodcat> OSX
<Scary_Guy> Mint here
<mrgoodcat> how many tabs?
<mrgoodcat> i've got 7
<mrgoodcat> 2 of them are single page applications
<Scary_Guy> one tab each
<mrgoodcat> hmm. i've never had problems with using that much memory
<Scary_Guy> looks like a leak
<mrgoodcat> do you know how to open the chrome task manager?
<mrgoodcat> you can see which tab is leaking
<jrwren_> all depends on what web pages you visit.
<mrgoodcat> it's probably a javascript leak
<jrwren_> shitty javascript apps are shitty javascript apps
<Scary_Guy> I just restarted both and I'm at about 35%
<Scary_Guy> not a clue, I'll go look it up
<mrgoodcat> my chrome is using 420 now (i opened more tabs). google music is using 370 by itself
<mrgoodcat> Scary_Guy: 3bar menu > more tools > task manager
<jrwren_> a memory profiler in dev tools would be very interesting
<mrgoodcat> jrwren_: we can only hope and pray to the google gods
<Scary_Guy> Wow, HTTPS Everywheere is a hog, 120,000K for incogneto and regular each
<Scary_Guy> or put in a feature request
<jrwren_> 120MB for that?!?
<Scary_Guy> That's what it says
<Scary_Guy> I killed off the non incognito window too, can't kill off the non incognito extensions though
<Scary_Guy> says it crashed and wants to restart them
<mrgoodcat> my usage https://blog.cloudflare.com/cloudflare-now-supports-websockets/
<Scary_Guy> that doesn't look like your useage
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> oops
<mrgoodcat> bad paste
<mrgoodcat> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_fGAzchSQPPRkJkV3FyWWJqQXc
<mrgoodcat> try that one
<Scary_Guy> it wants me to login :/
<mrgoodcat> guh
<mrgoodcat> try this one? https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_fGAzchSQPPRkJkV3FyWWJqQXc/view?usp=sharing
<mrgoodcat> all the "Google Chrome Helper" processes are various tabs/plugins/workers and whatnot
<mrgoodcat> so all that added up is my "real" usage
<mrgoodcat> i think
<Scary_Guy> interesting
<Scary_Guy> I don't see that on mine, but I do see all the different processes in htop
<Scary_Guy> Oh, leaving failbook open does it apparently, it's just creeping up slowly
<mrgoodcat> that was my mac process monitor
<mrgoodcat> not the chrome one
<Scary_Guy> ah, makes sense
<Scary_Guy> wasn't sure if there was a difference between chrome/ium but I figured not too much
<mrgoodcat> this is the chrome one
<mrgoodcat> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_fGAzchSQPPN2Q4YnUwRzFMTnM/view?usp=sharing
<Scary_Guy> seems like a lot
<Scary_Guy> I just removed HTTPS Everywhere, I have Ublock Origin and Umatrix so I should be fairly safe there
<mrgoodcat> idk about ublock but i know adblock has a gigantic memory footprint
<mrgoodcat> since it has to inject itself into every iframe on a page
<mrgoodcat> and some sites with a lot of ads have a lot of frames
<jrwren_> really? that is how adblock works?
<Scary_Guy> yeah, ublock has a much lower footprint
<jrwren_> I did not think that is how adblock or ublock works.
<Scary_Guy> running two processes one for regular, the other for incog.  Around 45,000K each
<mrgoodcat> adblock is about 4MiB per iframe
<jrwren_> that is insanity
<Scary_Guy> bbl
<cmaloney> heh, so visiting CNN with adblock running is a denail of service on low-memmory machines.
<_stink_> i just started using epiphany instead of chromium on my ubuntu chromebook machine
<_stink_> i ahve to say
<_stink_> epiphany seems fine overall
<_stink_> slightly buggier
<cmaloney> I'm starting to think that innodb is terrible
<cmaloney> even moreso than usual
<jrwren_> only starting?
<gamerchick02> innodb?
<gamerchick02> a database, i got that. i think.
<gamerchick02> and oh oh oh, i'm loving the pebble. cmaloney, you've converted me. never thought i'd need this, but now i can't live without it.
<cmaloney> Yeah, it's one of the storage engines for MySQL
<gamerchick02> nice
<cmaloney> tries to be PostgreSQL and does everything to make you wish you were using PostgreSQL
<cmaloney> gamerchick02: Awesome. :)
<gamerchick02> :)
<rick_h_> wheee mysql
<gamerchick02> i like the round too. it's not too heavy and not too big.
<gamerchick02> sounds like fun.
<gamerchick02> OH. also the bluetooth actually hits the 40 or so feet it's supposed to.
<cmaloney> Yeah, the Pebble is pretty sweet re: range
<gamerchick02> yeah. i got OUTSIDE of my suite at work and then got the sadface about not being connected
<gamerchick02> it was amazing. :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-01-30
<HiMtNdRiFtEr> evening
<harsha> hi
<cmaloney> morning
<flipsidecreation> good morning cmaloney
<cmaloney> How's the morning so far?
<flipsidecreation> good, just working on some making some YouTube videos
<cmaloney> Cool deal
<flipsidecreation> yeah, a few people have asked me about doing one on kdenlive, which is the software that I use to edit with
<cmaloney> Ah, neat.
<flipsidecreation> yeah, and you know me as Tom Lawrence, I will be presenting on pFsense at the MUG
<cmaloney> God Damn, MySQL innodb is slow
<_stink_> flipsidecreation: that's pretty meta
<flipsidecreation> ^
<_stink_> using kdelive to edit a video about kdenlive
<flipsidecreation> yes
<flipsidecreation> I could go deeper, make a video on kdenlive about making the kdenlive video
<cmaloney> flipsidecreation: Oh, hi there!
<cmaloney> Looking forward to the talk in April
<flipsidecreation> also, I should change my IRC name to TomLawrence
<flipsidecreation> the only real reference I have left to flipsidecreations.com is my mail server
<cmaloney> Nah, keep 'em guessing. :)
<cmaloney> I changed mine to cmaloney for work after a while
<cmaloney> used to be snap-l until it got ridiculous
<flipsidecreation> yeah, maybe that will be my weekend project, re-registering with IRC servers
<flipsidecreation> I have to work on SEO for my name.  I am being out ranked by Sir Thomas Lawrence
<flipsidecreation> and he is dead
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> I have an engineering professor in my namespace
<cmaloney> and some stoner idiot who keeps using my gmail account as his email dumping ground
<cmaloney> Had one woman get really upset with me that I hadn't told her about my (thenm girlfriend, now wife) because she thought I was some young Irish Stepdancer.
<flipsidecreation> haha
<flipsidecreation> Sir Thomas Lawrence was a painter, so I am screwed in regards to doing image searches
<cmaloney> Yeah, I'll bet
<_stink_> my namesake is a British extreme rock climber
<flipsidecreation> that is not a bad association
<cmaloney> brb
<cmaloney> Evening and all that (at least it will be in the next 30 minutes)
<mrgoodcat> is 6:00 official evening?
<cmaloney> 17:42 is after sunrise
<cmaloney> but I've always heard 6pm was "Evening"
<mrgoodcat> never really thought about the exact definition i suppose
<mrgoodcat> the period of time at the end of the day, usually from about 6 p.m. to bedtime.
<mrgoodcat> ty google
<_stink_> so i was saying epiphany is nice the other day
<_stink_> i was wrong
<cmaloney> It's awesome, or it's not nice?
<_stink_> memory use isn't much better than chrome (or might be worse after a few tabs are open)
<_stink_> and it's buggier
<_stink_> call me fickle :P
<cmaloney> Ugh
<cmaloney> Fickle. Happy? :)
<_stink_> yes!
<mrgoodcat> i'm not very surprised
<mrgoodcat> browsers are just so complex now
<mrgoodcat> it's hard to have one with a low memory footprint
<mrgoodcat> especially if modern js/css/html5 standards compliance is a factor
<mrgoodcat> and it doesn't hurt to have google backing you when you're trying to squash bugs in such a complex system
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-01-31
<rick_h_> afternoon
<_stink_> yes?
<cmaloney> Morning
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Where are you now?
 * cmaloney gets ready to play Where in the world is rick_h_
<rick_h_> ghent
 * cmaloney rolls the tape about ghent for the audience
<rick_h_> ghent is kind of small and almost all shut down on sundays
<cmaloney> That's pretty awesome.
<rick_h_> which makes finding lunch hard
<cmaloney> I'll bet
<cmaloney> not everywhere is open on Sundays
<cmaloney> like the west side of the state
<rick_h_> heh
<cmaloney> Though you'd think you'd find somewheter that caters to tourists
 * cmaloney checks to see if there are tourists in Ghent
<rick_h_> well, we latched onto cfgmgmtcamp conference
<rick_h_> wihch is here
<cmaloney> Ah, so there's more than you there.
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> not a normal work sprint
<cmaloney> Wondering if the locals noticed
<rick_h_> the hotel wifi network has noticed :/
<cmaloney> :)
<cmaloney> heh
<rick_h_> can't hold an audio only call with home
<cmaloney> Ugh
<cmaloney> Any wireless plans available for travellers?
<rick_h_> there was a cell place, I was just using roaming t-mobile
<rick_h_> we'll see
<rick_h_> ugh, need xenial iso...eta 24hrs
<cmaloney> Not on hotel wifi you don't. :)
<rick_h_> lol
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-01-23
<shakes808> morning
<rick_h> morning
<jrwren> good morning?
<jrwren> GREAT MORNING!
<shakes808> non-foggy morning?! :)
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h> no, just rainy grey day
<rick_h> the fog was kind of cool
<rick_h> aside from folks that refuse to turn on their headlights
<cmaloney> ++
<cmaloney> I'll never understand that
<cmaloney> Apparently Wowway is blocking outgoing port 25 access
<jrwren> most isps do.
<cscheib> fairly typical
<jrwren> its an antispam measure.
<jrwren> IIRC comcast does too, but you can request that open it.
<shakes808> rick_h: i almost side swiped a white van the other day because they blended in with the fog and didn't have their lights on.  :(   i feel you
<jrwren> I read side swiped and immdiately though you were talking about tinder.
<jrwren> FTR: I've never seen or used tinder.
<shakes808> jrwren: haha, i am assuming that is how you scroll through "compatible" matches?
<cmaloney> jrwren: This  appears to be a recent chang with WOW
<cmaloney> was working fine on port 25 outging up until yesterday.
<shakes808> funny meme addiction video,  reminded me of jrwren with this guys statement (queued up and listen for 20 seconds): https://youtu.be/QzMpn-fYfgo?t=214
<jrwren> shakes808: HAHAHAHA, zomg, that is GREAT
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-01-24
<cmaloney> morning
<jrwren> Great Morning!
<cmaloney> um, ok.
<widox> haha
<widox> morning
<rick_h> morning
<cmaloney> How's the day?
<rick_h> rainy
<rick_h> but good stuff otherwise I guess
<cmaloney> That sounds convinced
<rick_h> hah, no. All good. just got back from the dentist so...wheeee
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> uncomfortably numb
<rick_h> naw, just have that minty feeling
<cmaloney> ah, just a cleaning then
<rick_h> yea, regular stuff
<rick_h> how goes things down south?
<cmaloney> Not too bad
<cmaloney> just plugging away at the day
<cmaloney> whee
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-01-25
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h> Morning
<shakes808> morning
 * rick_h hates being at dealerships with the tvs always on loud on news
<jrwren> rick_h: simple solution: sell your cars. :p
<rick_h> jrwren: going to be hard to get the 10,000lb trailer to VA that way
 * jrwren was last at a dealer when car was purchased 2 yrs ago. ;)
<jrwren> rick_h: a little pain now for a lot of pleasure later, eh?
<rick_h> jrwren: definitely
<rick_h> jrwren: on the brain since we were spending time last night looking at spring break plans to head to VA and maybe stop in the TN smokies on the way back
 * rick_h turns on noise cancelling and puts the music on to drown out the news
<shakes808> rick_h: are you the only one in the sound booth? just turn it down.... Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<jrwren> time to carry a tv-b-gone?
<jrwren> bonus if yout built it yourself.
<jrwren> double bonus if it has wifi and runs ubuntu-core
<jrwren> tripple bonus if it runs ubuntu unstead. ;)
<rick_h> shakes808: heh, no there's 7 or 8 folks here all sitting in front of the tv riveted
 * rick_h is off to the side laptop'ing away
<shakes808> jrwren: https://media.giphy.com/media/qqzOG3rgcqXbW/giphy.gif
<shakes808> rick_h: gotcha,  that sucks.
<rick_h> meh, I'm just whining
<shakes808> Then maybe you need you need that "tv-b-gone" solution I just posted :)
<brousch__> I find this career path very interesting. Leveraging PYthon skills without the web crap, for science! https://www.datacamp.com/community/blog/web-development-data-science#gs.IOEePfg
<jrwren> shakes808: lol
<jrwren> brousch__: that is funny. I did python without the web for many many years before I ever did python for the web.
<rick_h> it's one of hte things I <3 about python is that it's skills you can use for anything
<brousch__> Yeah, but it's hard to find non-web Python jobs right now. We actually have some here, but it's considered legacy code and is moving to Go.
<jrwren> poor python. people under the false impression that go is better and faster.
<brousch__> Concurrency is the issue sited here.
<brousch__> Spinning up a ton of Python processes to talk to redis
<jrwren> there are so many great python solutions for that, moving to go is foolish.
<brousch__> It also kind of sucks that we're stuck on Python 2.7, because of Salt
<jrwren> that does suck.
<brousch__> Moving a bunch of stuff to Xenial and systemd right now
<jrwren> I used fabric. I never used salt.
<jrwren> but, if salt is only for deploying, can't you use python 3 for your apps and still deploy it with python2?
<brousch__> We could, but like I said, the Python apps are considered legacy
 * jrwren shakes head
<jrwren> i really dislike this industry, the older I get.
<jrwren> I should have been a doctor or a lawyer and just programmed for hobby.
<brousch__> Doctors and lawyers will be replaced by Watson
<brousch__> jrwren: Are you still at Canonical, working on Juju?
<rick_h> I could never have been a doctor
<rick_h> turns out...I hate people
<rick_h> especially stupid ones. I'd never get a patient base.
 * shakes808 agrees
<rick_h> "oh quit your fussing...are you dead yet?"
<brousch__> Funeral director?
<jrwren> brousch__: yes, still here, working with rick :)
<rick_h> wheee
<brousch__> Isn't that written in Go?
<jrwren> brousch__: it was originally python. it was rewritten in go. IMO this was a mistake.
<_stink_> brousch__++
<jrwren> brousch__: I'm monday morning quarterbacking. I've no insight into the history of that decision. My opinion is mine and mine alone :)
<brousch__> I appreciate your opinion. You have a lot of experience in this realm
<jrwren> brousch__: I've made python go very fast. both for CPU bound and for IO bound applications. pypy and cython for the cpu bound stuff. pycurl for the io bound stuff.
<shakes808> PHP question, if anyone knows.  I am seeing this -> http://pastebin.com/BuiSXxEV  What is the \SimpleXMLElement?  I can't find any references why there is a \ preceding the Class name.
<jrwren> tuning uwsgi for the web stuff. It is amazing how fast you can actually make it go.
<jrwren> shakes808: google is your friend. "php simplexmlelement" first link: http://php.net/manual/en/class.simplexmlelement.php
<jrwren> or, in my case, duckduckgo.
<jrwren> shakes808: same thing for backslash: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=php+new+operator+backslash&atb=v32-7b_&ia=qa
<shakes808> jrwren: thank you.  i think i wasn't getting anything because i searching literally \SimpleXMLElement and \ in the search instead of typing out "backslash" ... :|  I see it with the namespace\foo, but haven't seen it with just \namespace before.
<jrwren> shakes808: afaik, that tells it the root namespace.
<jrwren> shakes808: and since namespaces are newer in php, most things are in the root namespace
<shakes808> jrwren: makes sense.  thank you
<rick_h> has anyone else's twitter feed turned into just a maas of depression?
 * rick_h has to close it...too much
<jrwren> yes
<_stink_> Melancholy as a Service?
<jrwren> especially this morning.
<cmaloney> rick_h: Yes
<jcastro> jrwren: ping
<jrwren> jcastro: pong. On a call. I was planning to lyft there and get there on time.
<jcastro> ok, omw.
<brousch__> Hm, shouldn't this page show Ubuntu 16.10 by default? https://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop
<jrwren> brousch__: scroll down. it is there?  LTS is apparently prefered.
<rick_h> yea, LTS is the default for most things
<brousch__> That seems strange for the Desktop page
<rick_h> I guess desktop might be ok to not be...but meh
<rick_h> that is a giant space down the page from 16.04 to 16.10
<rick_h> would be nice to get that closer together imo
<brousch__> Yeah, I didn't even seen it until jrwren mentioned it
<brousch__> They gave me a Windows desktop at work to go along with my Windows laptop. I might as well nuke the desktop and try some Ubuntus
<jrwren> if it is windows 10, try ubuntu for windows.
<brousch__> Ew
<brousch__> It will basically be for running vagrant+virtualbox
<brousch__> It's win7
<jrwren> ah, the best windows
<brousch__> ++
<brousch__> Xubuntu is the bizomb
<jrwren> +1 I love Xubuntu
<jrwren> I think it is my favorite Ubuntu flavor.
<jrwren> I've not ruled out lubuntu just yet either.
<greg-g> some days working from home where within the immediate 2 next door neighbors there are a total of 6 boys (8mos - 7 years) is a bit tough.
<greg-g> bulk of them (4) are 5-7
<jrwren> so they can go outside and play and be out of your hair?
<jrwren> jcastro got me checking for att fiber like what what waht... click click click... NOOOoooo!!!
<greg-g> just got them out there :)
<greg-g> one was up next to my office door screaming into a walkie talkie "CAN YOU HEAR ME?!" I went out and said "You're talking into a walkie talkie, you don't need to scream." "OK" he says. then proceeds to scream more.
<greg-g> kids man
<_stink_> haha
<_stink_> my 4 year old does that
<jrwren> take walkie talkie away.
<jrwren> tell kid to leave the building.
<jrwren> I am not a popular dad. :)
<greg-g> :) I didn't do #1, but did #2
<_stink_> rage smash walkie talkie?
<jrwren> _stink_: yes... or... consider yourself very patient and self controlled for not rage smashing walkie talkie
<_stink_> win win
<rick_h> greg-g: is there was a close by coworking space I'd be in air at least a few times a week
<rick_h> Always fun when the boys go nuts all over
<greg-g> yeah, there's one downtown, just about 7 blocks away, I haven't yet even priced them
<cmaloney> We priced one over by us for when we lived in our old place
<cmaloney> so JoDee could have an actual office space
<cmaloney> It was a bit pricey, and they seemed hot on the whole "office vibe"
<cmaloney> wherein people would randomly talk to other people
<cmaloney> Wonder if you can rent a storage locker cheaper.
<jrwren> sounds like the ones around here.
<cmaloney> "Yes, I'd like a 12x12 with a fiber connection"
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-01-26
<_stink_> cmaloney++
<brousch__> What's the Detroit children's entertainment look like these days? Is the children's Museum still a thing?
<jrwren> detroit science center.
<jrwren> this time of year, ice skate at campus martius
<brousch__> ah, maybe that was it
<jrwren> DIA is good for all.
<brousch__> "Michigan Science Center" typical Detroit claiming to be all of Michigan :P
<greg-g> not even the capital city
<rick_h> we've done the lansing science center I think a couple of times and it was fun
<shakes808> would rather make the trip to Chicago and go to Shedd's
<rick_h> shedd's is nice, but last time I was there went through it pretty fast
<jrwren> dats an aquarium, not the same at all.
<rick_h> the field museum was awesome
<jrwren> field museum is the best, there is a reason it was featured on stargate sg1. :p
<rick_h> anyone need an msata 128gb drive?
<rick_h> stupid new nuc of course needed a different drive format. Had to cannabalize my walking desk nuc to get it running for now
<cmaloney> brousch__: MI Science center was when outside-folks took over the Detroit Science Center
<cmaloney> it was a bit of a dump
<cmaloney> Impressions 5 was pretty cool last I was there
<cmaloney> but that was over 10 years ago
<cmaloney> Oh, and The Detroit Zoo is awesome
<cmaloney> Even during the cold months
<_stink_> +1 for the michigan science center
<_stink_> it's a good time
<jrwren> how old are the children? if 10+, all of the museums are great.
<brousch__> 9
<jrwren> Museum of African American History is really cool. Detroit Historical Museum is great.
<jrwren> close enough.
<jrwren> and outside detroit, The Henry Ford Museum and Greenfield Village are super fun, all the time. I've been to those far more than any of the others.
<brousch__> Yeah, we've been there recently, mostly during makerfaires
<brousch__> My sister in Royal Oak had a baby, so I'm thinking of visiting her and hitting a museum in Detroit
<jrwren> children and adults entertainment near there: microcenter. :)
<dzho> microcenter++
<cmaloney> ++++
<rick_h> detroit zoo is good, we take an annual winter trip as the animals are more out and about and it's less busy/really nice
<jrwren> great to see the polar bears when it is cold.
<rick_h> yea, and the artic fox, and the normal bears are out more, etc
<_stink_> i agree, zoo during winter is great
<_stink_> esp the lack of crowds
<cmaloney> ++
<rick_h> yea, another bonus
<rick_h> just wish it had better food options but that's what a cooler and wagon are for :)
<cmaloney> Yeah, and the cafeteria is all the way in the back
<cmaloney> that's the only thing that's open
<jrwren> never good food options at such places.
<jrwren> but so close to royal oak, we spend afternoon at zoo and then dinner at Mesa Tacos :)
<cmaloney> That's about all you can get there
<cmaloney> really disappointed Monterrey's became Mesa
<jrwren> yeah, used to love monterrey
<cmaloney> Evening
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-01-27
 * greg-g yawns
<cmaloney> morning
<brousch__> not any more
<greg-g> still for me
<greg-g> still in a Quarterly Review that started at 8am :/
<brousch__> quarterly review takes quarter of a day
<greg-g> pretty much yeah
<greg-g> 8-9:30am for part one, 10-11:30 for part two. And that is just for my peer group (teams that report to the CTO)
<cmaloney> blergh
<greg-g> management man, it's fun
<jrwren> quarterly review of what?
<jrwren> oh shit, I think rick_h goes away for a week for those :p
<greg-g> all the work the WMF has done for the last quarter :) I only go to the Technology teams
<jrwren> i like being a leaf node. I get teh 1hr quarterly business meeting to find out how the compny made money, and that is all.
<cmaloney> http://i.imgur.com/v6dFs83.gif <- jrwren
<jrwren> lol.
<cmaloney> It was either that or: http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/magic.gif
<jrwren> lol
<shakes808> HAHA, nice
<cmaloney> Hey, maybe I would be a good fit for a Windows System Administration position (says the recruiter who thought I might be interested in Windows System Administration)
<jrwren> lol
<cmaloney> http://decafbad.net/resume.pdf
<cmaloney> I even removed Windows from the list of technologies on my resume.
<cmaloney> Shit, the last time it mentions Windows was in 2001.
<cmaloney> Supported one HP-UX and four Windows NT machines in a small-scale produc-
<cmaloney> tion environment. Support for the HP-UX machine involved reloading HP-UX
<cmaloney> 11 and installing the âProperly Administered Hostâ tools for use with an internal
<cmaloney> Ford application.
<cmaloney> Fuck, I don't even remember that.
<jrwren> lol
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-01-28
<cmaloney> morning
<jrwren> good morning.
 * dzho waves all round
 * cmaloney waves in squares
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-01-29
<tony-smlr> SMLR E224 (1/29/2017) Video:  Video http://youtu.be/G5P_y1GBTKQ Audio: http://www.podcastdetroit.com/how-to-listen/listen-to-studio-3/
<cmaloney> morning
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> Howdy
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-01-22
<dzho> huh
<greg-g> Gotcha
<cmaloney> Morning
<Scary_Guy> hey
<jrwren> Good morning.
<jrwren> I woke up and thought it was still the weekend. Not a great way to start a Monday.
<jrwren> Has anyone Tried out PopOS, the ubuntu variant from System76?
<cmaloney> not yet
<Scary_Guy> It looked pretty.  I hate pretty.  It usually means something else suffers to make it pretty.
<cmaloney> Show me on the GUI where it hurt you
<Scary_Guy> either it eats up more memory or it's proprietary software.  I'm running Debian with MATE but using i3 instead of Marco which uses far less resources
<jrwren> I just wanted to see how different it was. I guess I should be more familiar with ubuntu 17.10 desktop to really know.
<Scary_Guy> well, there are some great demo videos on youtube.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_4T8l5ZuaY
<jrwren> i hate demo videos. :)
<jrwren> yea. this not a good video
<Scary_Guy> sorry, I tried.  there are others.  I figured it was at least good enough to show how it looked
<waldo323> oh man this video
<Scary_Guy> hey, I could have posted this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFrn3ef-n7Q
<Scary_Guy> I'm not sure how good or bad it is as I couldn't get past the accent.  sounds like a slack-jawed yokel
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-01-23
<waldo323> for the second video, I don't mind the accent, but from the start his tone says a lot about what he thinks about gnome desktop etc - sounds like he already had his mind made up before starting the review
<Scary_Guy> well, I can tell you what I think about the gnome desktop :p
<jrwren> And what is that?
<Scary_Guy> I like gnome 3 for a laptop/single monitor interface, but it uses too much of a memory footprint.  I prefer MATE, but with i3wm in place of Marco
<Scary_Guy> still, if Nemoshell ever becomes non-vaporware screw memory management, that is amazing!  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efYwb_2hEbQ
<Scary_Guy> oh fun, their website is dead now
<Scary_Guy> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwRUJXBI_7Q
<jrwren> rick_h: our latest ad demos the system pretty well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jJJlKe3quI
<greg-g> whoa: https://mastodon.social/@kylerankin is at Purism as Chief Security Officer!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-01-24
<Scary_Guy> oh yeah, I like that company
<rick_h> morning
<rick_h> jrwren: hah, nice video there
<cmaloney> Morning
<jrwren> Good morning. :)
<Scary_Guy> hey
 * greg-g yawns
<greg-g> I've been up since 4:30ish. On a bus into SF now. An all day tech manager (aka: those of us who report to the CTO) face-to-face, then thur/fri is our org's All Hands.
<greg-g> I didn't need to get up at 4:30, my alarm was set for 5:45, but, stupid bodies/brains.
<cmaloney> greg-g: understandable. And ugh.
<jrwren> greg-g: anxious?
<greg-g> nah, well, not about the work stuff, leaving home for 3 days yeah
<rick_h> greg-g: ouch, hate it when that happens (the waking up before the alarm bit)
<greg-g> yeah, laying in bed for those 40 minutes (I gave up) was real annoying
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-01-25
<cmaloney> morni... um... afternoon
<rick_h> tis true
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-01-26
<waldo323> good morning
<Scary_Guy> greetings
<cmaloney> Good morning
<jrwren> Good Morning, how are you all?
<rick_h> wheee
<jrwren> same.
<jrwren> cut myself by reaching into sink to set the stopper and grazing my razor. have been bleeding profusely every sense. Great start to the day.
<cmaloney> Ouch
<cmaloney> That's no fun
<waldo323> ouch :-\
<cmaloney> Apparently one of the local churches in the area is sending is a flier for their Football Sunday
<cmaloney> featuring U of M's coach somebody-or-other
<cmaloney> Combining a Holy-Ghost Revival with Football fever is pretty much my definition of Hell.
<jrwren> Harbough?
<cmaloney> I think so
<jrwren> Grandma says that xtian holy-ghost revival is what made america great. Eric Metaxas, If You Can Keep It, fuels the revisionist history of the church.
<waldo323> is the super bowl in 1 week or 2?
<rick_h> feb 4
<waldo323> thanks
<cmaloney> Have they decided the participants?
<rick_h> Philly Eagles and NE Patriots
<waldo323> OT: I finally got the video of Kattni's CircuitPython talk up on youtube. If you're interested:  https://youtu.be/307Ia_mv8AA
<waldo323> this was my first time using OBS and found there is a bunch to learn
<cmaloney> waldo323: ++
<cmaloney> rick_h: Ah, I'd read that the Patriots were headed there
<cmaloney> Outside of knowing that it's LII (which is kind of hilarious) I know little about what's going on
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-01-27
<cmaloney> https://mastodon.cloud/@mhall119/41733002 <- THis makes me happy
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-01-28
<rick_h> cmaloney: that's cool, up your alley. When do you put in your first PR? :)
<cmaloney> Heh. Not quite yet
<cmaloney> Have to install it first to see what's up
<dzho> a little further afield, thought this channel might Have Opinions about something like http://www.ginandtacos.com/2018/01/27/wither-detroit/
<dzho> cmaloney: it makes me sad that when I click the github link from that gettogether site, it asks me to sign in
<dzho> oh, that's just them using GitHub OAuth. Nevermind!
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> Honestly the reason Detroit isn't on Amazon's list is because we got rid of the laws that allowed the city to claim eminent domain
<cmaloney> so they can't negotiate huge tracts of land for Amazon.
<cmaloney> it's unfortunate but that's really the reason why Amazon isn't coming here
<cmaloney> that and we can't offer the tax breaks for something like Amazon.
<cmaloney> Honestly I'm not upset that Amazon isn't coming here
<cmaloney> Detroit needs to build its own business, not have some outside company shop for where they want to land
<cmaloney> That's old thinking
<jrwren> its good that amazon isn't coming to detroit.
<jrwren> the tax breaks for which amazon is looking will only hurt whatever city they land in
<jrwren> oh... you said almost the same thing. :)
<jrwren> I hadn't finished reading yet.
 * jrwren bows head in shame
<cmaloney> jrwren: You only get a partial glare then. :)
<cmaloney> One of the NAS drives on one of the Synolgy RAID gave me bad sectors
<jrwren> :(
<jrwren> did you get a SMART warning first?
<cmaloney> Yeah, but the NAS wasn't set up to warn about bad sectors
<cmaloney> it's only used for backups anyway so it's not that big of a deal
<cmaloney> and I replaced the drive (3TB WD Red drive, WD30WFRX)
<jrwren> even if i don't lose data, it always hurts me a bit to replace a drive.
<jrwren> i don't know why.
<jrwren> https://twitter.com/SteveCase/status/957663731164631040
<cmaloney> I know the feeling
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-01-21
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> It's cold
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-01-24
<gamerchick02> i got ubuntu up and running on my desktop! yay for a second hard drive!
