#ubuntu-discuss 2012-11-12
<AlanBell> so, everyone see the advert for ubuntu on the phone thing?
<AlanBell> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=iv1Z7bf4jXY
<k1l> that raises the question: when will a device (or the software for other devices) be available?
<AlanBell> it does rather
<AlanBell> I can't work out why that advert exists really
<k1l> yep
<AlanBell> it is a great concept
<IdleOne> I love the idea, it makes me want to buy an android phone
<IdleOne> and I HATE mobiles
<k1l> maybe they need more screaming users to convince the manufacturers
<AlanBell> maybe
<AlanBell> the first round of publicity was advertising to the OEMs really
<IdleOne> I also can't figure out why the ad if there are no manufacturers selling them yet.
<AlanBell> but this one looks very much targetted at end users
<AlanBell> http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/android talks about benefits for network operators and handset manufacturers
<AlanBell> people got all excited about that, but it was never a consumer pitch
<IdleOne> I'm sold. I don't need more info. I need to know where can I buy it
<k1l> IdleOne: yep, i do want that too
<k1l> would be nice on my nexus4 that im buying in some hours :)
<IdleOne> also would this work only on wifi or do the docks have an ethernet port?
<AlanBell> ooh tomorrow is nexus10 day
<k1l> AlanBell: yep, make sure your f5 button is working. there will be a rush on the nexus devices this time
<IdleOne> oh, Samsung has "smart docks" with ports
<AlanBell> I might not get the nexus 10 tomorrow, I haven't worked out how to justify putting it on expenses yet
<IdleOne> hmm seems they don't have an ethernet port
<AlanBell> presume it has hdmi though
<IdleOne> it does
<AlanBell> and USB, anything else?
<IdleOne> 3 usb ports, hdmi.
<IdleOne> http://gigaom.com/mobile/smart-dock-turns-galaxy-note-2-into-an-android-computer/
<IdleOne> just thinking that a dock with ethernet would be very useful for people who don't want or have unlimited data plan
<IdleOne> Ubuntu for android would also have network-manager I assume
<AlanBell> dunno, I never plug my laptop into ethernet
<AlanBell> wireless just works and has connected by the time I have sat down anywhere
<AlanBell> I think a nexus 10 with a bluetooth keyboard/mouse would be interesting running ubuntu
<IdleOne> right, but they are advertising this as a phone/computer. people might start to use this as the main computing device and using wifi all the time might not be what they want.
<AlanBell> maybe
<AlanBell> but I think most people will have a wireless router at the point the phone comes into the house, and they won't want to run wires to where the computer should be
<AlanBell> and I increasingly get the impression that Canonical is not interested in office users
<IdleOne> you need to run the wires for your monitor,keyboard,mouse anyway
<AlanBell> but not from my front door :)
<IdleOne> true, but until you sit at your desk you would still be using the device as a phone.
<AlanBell> most home desks won't have cat5 to them is my point
<AlanBell> power, yes
<IdleOne> I have 3 desks in my house on 2 floors. all are wired
<AlanBell> yup
<AlanBell> I have ripped out the wire that I did have
<AlanBell> got powerline networking for one computer and for the TV/sky box
<AlanBell> and wii
<AlanBell> the rest, including the camera is all wifi
<genii-around> We have 7 computer stations here, all are wired with a gigabit switch. Tucked all the wires in the wall last year and put network faceplates.
<genii-around> ( at home , at work there's a *lot* more wires and crap hanging everywhere )
#ubuntu-discuss 2012-11-13
<bazhang> gnome-session-fallback looks to be going away, from what reports I have seen
<bazhang> bug #1
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<bazhang> ok
<k1l_> gnome3 is going to llvmpipe. the gnome-fallback was just a 2d first aid thing
<bazhang> yep, it seems kind of a hack-ish thing
<bazhang> some crucial apps are not playing well with it of late
<k1l_> i can understand the developers view to not support 200years old hardware anymore
<bazhang> hehe
<bazhang> "it's nearly as old as the US Constitution!"
<k1l_> same with the non pae kernels in ubuntu
#ubuntu-discuss 2012-11-14
<Jordan_U> So, how long do you think until Ubuntu switches to systemd?
<AlanBell> systemd is just upstart reinvented isn't it?
<AlanBell> because upstart was written by Canonical
<popey> some argue systemd is technically superior.
<AlanBell> probably is
<popey> I'm unconvinced it's NiH
<AlanBell> but would Canonical be able to switch to it?
<AlanBell> or is there too much emotional investment in upstart?
<AlanBell> like bzr/git or unity/gnome-shell
<popey> i dont think its emotional investment which prevents us going bzr -> git, or unity -> gnome shell
<popey> same for upstart -> systemd
<popey> for unity there's the belief it's better, for our long term plans
<popey> for bzr I suspect it's because we have nobody to do the migration work
<Jordan_U> popey: What do you think is preventing a move from upstart to systemd?
<Jordan_U> One thing I find odd is that while there are many detailed technical arguments given for systemd over upstart, I haven't been able to find any equivelant defense of upstart over systemd.
<Jordan_U> The closest thing I've seen (and it's not very close at all) is from http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1121 . Did the Ubuntu Foundations team mentioned by Mark make a public report on what they deemed were the technical (and social) problems with systemd, and the technical (and social) advantages of upstart?
<popey> I've not seen such a public report. I've seen it discussed on ubuntu-devel iirc
#ubuntu-discuss 2012-11-15
<ryaxnb> wat
<ryaxnb> new channel
 * genii-around sips
#ubuntu-discuss 2012-11-16
<bazhang> ryaxnb, not really new, just not well publicized
<bazhang> gnome-shell extensions are quite a bit amazing imo
<bazhang> especially the coverflow alt-tab
<AlanBell> is that the same one we used to have in Ubuntu?
<AlanBell> super-tab
<bazhang> gnome-shell extensions should be treated like PPA
<bazhang> individually they may be ok, but toss two or three in together, and the results are often less than pleasant
<zykotick9> OMG everything that gets typed into dash gets sent to canonical (and shared with "select" 3rd parties, like facebook and twitter) that's really messed up...
<bazhang> really?
<bazhang> that can be disabled
<zykotick9> i was suprised to see a "legal notice" as soon as dash opened - now i know why.
<zykotick9> yes, the document says there is some "opt-out" option
<bazhang> privacy, first tab
<bazhang> set to off
<AlanBell> the third parties are not really "selected"
<AlanBell> any lens can send it anywhere
#ubuntu-discuss 2012-11-17
<TheAlliedFleet> Let's start this up
<TheAlliedFleet> Windows 8 vs Ubuntu 12.10
<TheAlliedFleet> DISCUSS
<k1l> :/
<k1l> just wanted to start, and he leaves
<Sidewinder> TheAlliedFleet, I do not use either one; sorry as this contributes nothing to this discussion. I do use 10.04 and very, very rarely, with dual-boot, use win xp.. Many reasons that I much prefer Ubuntu.
<Sidewinder> Rats, he left. Absolutely brilliant. :-(
<Sidewinder> Perhaps someone should list, in the topic, something about being patient? :)
<SuperEngineer> Sidewinder: maybe he is a(a) patient. Which is perhaps why he/she couldn't be patient?
<Sidewinder> SuperEngineer, Perhaps; I suppose one never knows. That may even be true in my regard.. ;-)
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<guntbert> late comment: I don't think that what TheAlliedFleet wanted to start was really the sort of discussion we wanted to tak eplace in here
<k1l> guntbert: you backlog reader :)
#ubuntu-discuss 2012-11-18
<Chaos7Theory> Rather quiet.
<rocsteady> hi guys/gals
<rocsteady> I'm rsync'ing a large directory from a remote host to my local host over ssh
<rocsteady> Trying to learn linux
<rocsteady> It's working!
<rocsteady> 20 min to wget at home, whereas at school it's like the speed of light
<vibhav> So, what do we discuss here? :)
<RamchandraApte> about ubuntu
#ubuntu-discuss 2014-11-16
<beto444> hi
<beto444> jest ktoÅ z polski ?
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-11-09
<daftykins> time for an early night i think
<daftykins> TJ-: go team fix-ksft ;)
<pauljw> gnite daftykins
<TJ-> ha, he's gone quiet now
<TJ-> I might sneak off too :)
<daftykins> must be excitedly gaming ;)
<daftykins> pauljw: oh hello! and goodbye! :D
<daftykins> OerHeks: \o
<pauljw> :)
<TJ-> gee whiz, another user-created mess :) HOW do they do it? I'm supposed to be dangerous but I've never been able to mess systems up like our users manage
<Bashing-om> TJ-: IRT ksft :) cool sluething !
<TJ-> just follow the trail... logs are everything
<pauljw> gnite all
<OerHeks> "when i changed kernals" ... duhhh
<TJ-> 14.04 > 15.10 I think speedy means
<OerHeks> good luck man, i am off to bed :-)
<TJ-> night :)
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<TJ-> morning!
<TJ-> I need to go to bed but been caught up
<lotuspsychje> nite nite
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: I fired up the WMP600N with a 32-bit 15.10 install; it worked fine. So if you can test with 32-bit too so we can know if you have a system problem, or just the amd64 architecture, that'll narrow things down. The system here I tested with only has 32-bit CPUs fitted so I can't test on that with amd64. I'll try to dig out a 64-bit in the week, but all my PCs are racked up so I need to put
<TJ-> some parts together to do it.
<lordievader> Good morning.
<BluesKaj> Hey all
<daftykins> heya \o
<BluesKaj> hi daftykins
<daftykins> well i'll be, turns out cp does work just fine for ISOs
<daftykins> sudo cp /path/to/iso /dev/sdX
<daftykins> a quick "sync" after to be sure, and hey presto
<BluesKaj> daftykins, bootable?
<daftykins> yep, tested it
<BluesKaj> cool
<daftykins> the partitions read as really weird on it though, from both fdisk and parted
<BluesKaj> weird , how?
<daftykins> i've not got a host up anymore to pastebin
<daftykins> gotta nip out to the banks :) i'll give it a whirl later
<lotus|xenial> good afternoon to all
<TJ-> Hiho :)
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: wily 32bit dint fix, same IBM card+ id
<TJ-> lotus|xenial: OK, so now it's a hardware issue. What's the make/model. Or just "dmesg | grep DMI"
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: tryed few bios stuff again, no success either
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: /KV8-MAX3 (VIA K8T800-8237), BIOS 6.00 PG 06/29/2004
<TJ-> I suspect a motherboard fault in the PCI chipset
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: that would make sense
<TJ-> lotus|xenial: do you have a web link to the manufacturers pages for that mobo? My search-fu is failing me
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: http://www.cnet.com/products/abit-kv8-pro-3rd-eye-motherboard-atx-socket-754-k8t800-pro/specs/
<lotus|xenial> or
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: http://abit.ws/page/en/motherboard/motherboard_detail.php@pMODEL_NAME=KV8-MAX3&fMTYPE=Socket%20754&pPRODINFO=BIOS
<TJ-> thanks, got it. Can get the manual now
<TJ-> hmmm, all their links to manuals are broken
<lotus|xenial> yeah abit is bit broken overall
<TJ-> like their mobo :p
<lotus|xenial> lol
<TJ-> Can you tell me *exactly* what other PCI adapters are plugged into the mobo, and *which* PCI slot each is in? PCI5 is the outside edge of the mobo, PCI1 is nearest the AGP slot. On these older boards slots have to share resources such as IRQs and it was a common issue needing to play about with slot positions to get a group of PCI adapters to work
<TJ-> Also, is the GPU using the AGP slot?
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: only 1 pci slot used for the wifi card
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: yes its an old ati x800 agp
<TJ-> which slot is the WMP600N in currently?
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: its the second last pci slot down
<lotus|xenial> not sure wich irq
<lotus|xenial> but ive tested 3 pcie slots already
<lotus|xenial> pci sorry
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: lets continue another time mate i have to bbl
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: just wanna come say wily 32bit didnt work :p
<lotus|xenial> cu laterz
<TJ-> whois is this cap, it's giving out bad suggestions. Anyone recognise ?
<daftykins> must be a new name for our buddy pikachu
<daftykins> aka pikapi :)
<daftykins> i don't 100% think so, cap seems able to actually construct a sentence
<TJ-> Yeah, but throwing out things that show a lack of awareness
<TJ-> These are the more dangerous types. They sound authoratitive and people follow their instructions
<daftykins> *nod*
<daftykins> could be worth logging a warning in #ubuntu-ops like i did with pikapi
<TJ-> Wait and see a bit more yet; I think my warning earlier put a shot across the bows
<TJ-> i might need some backup; looks like I'm contradicting it again :)
<daftykins> backup?
<daftykins> back shortly
<EriC^^> man im so lazy i want to go get that hdmi cable keep saying i'll go tomorrow :>
<daftykins> tut tut!
<daftykins> as soon as you join IRC, all bets are off for achieving anything that day i find :)
<EriC^^> lol
<MonkeyDust> EriC^^  sometimes i copy/paste 'sudo apt-get update' fom a tutorial, because i'm too lazy to type it
<EriC^^> i feel like buying a cool camera too
<EriC^^> i keep seeing these really awesome sunset views
<EriC^^> bunch of trees next to eachother on a mountain, dark green, and sun is showing behind them and you can see between the trees
<EriC^^> MonkeyDust: lol
<OerHeks> MonkeyDust, i am so lazy,i pressarrowup untill i find it
<OerHeks> expanded bash history to 5000 lines
<daftykins> MonkeyDust: hey you can increase your efficiency by using "sudo apt update" instead :D
<daftykins> very quirky advice from 'cap' indeed.
<daftykins> koffel refuses to move off 12.04 - i don't get it.
<MonkeyDust> daftykins  true that
<MonkeyDust> is xenial out yet?
<daftykins> an alpha?
<daftykins> #ubuntu+1 topic should say
<daftykins> i don't understand why anyone would prefer dd over clonezilla, why sit there and wait for all the zeroes to go over for the blank space? :)
<OerHeks> especially when he does not want to make mistakes indeed
<EriC^^> how does dd know it's free space?
<EriC^^> i mean clonezilla?
<MonkeyDust> i don't get why anyone should use elementary, apart from cosmetics
<EriC^^> clonezilla is pretty advanced and stuff, but i think the guy has it all wrong
<EriC^^> i dont think he can image a whole drive, and then dd it to sdb1
<EriC^^> he expects to have what? /dev/sdb1.1 /dev/sdb1.2 etc.. ?
<daftykins> yeah i think you're right there - i've no idea how clonezilla does it, but it is able to identify actually used space and only write that
<daftykins> works great for drive cloning when i do SSD upgrades
<EriC^^> cool
<daftykins> check out the weird fdisk output i got from using "cp file.iso /dev/sdx" earlier - termbin.com/hhva
<daftykins> Â£8 for https://www.dropbox.com/s/kyjytcbwy2mmps8/IMG_20151109_181205.jpg?dl=0 :D
<EriC^^> you mean the empty stuff is weird?
<daftykins> nah the sdb1p1 and sdb1p2
<EriC^^> oh
<OerHeks> daftykins, id you 'sync' after that?
<daftykins> actually the first empty line is kinda odd too :>
<EriC^^> yeah that is odd
<daftykins> OerHeks: yep
<daftykins> although i didn't use sudo - i wonder if that's important
<OerHeks> ehm...yes
<daftykins> 8D ah well i'm booted from it on my laptop right now and it works fine
<EriC^^> is it an sd card?
<EriC^^> i've seen that naming convention with the hybrid weird ass laptop stuff
<daftykins> nah the above linked cheap flash drives
<TJ-> Looks fine to me
<EriC^^> maybe it's cause the disk identifiers are the same?
<TJ-> What's the issue with it?
<EriC^^> nothing just /dev/sdb1 is odd
<TJ-> no; /dev/sdb declares /dev/sdb1 to be type 0 which is a 'whole disk' so the system them looks at /dev/sdb1 (which starts at the same sector 0 as its parent), so sees the same partition table, and creates the partition maps p1 p2 on the 'whole' disk /dev/sdb1
<TJ-> because partition 1 starts at sector 0, it contains the partition table itself
<OerHeks> maybe you did need sudo?
<daftykins> TJ-: nah it works fine, i'd never seen a drive displayed that way was all
<daftykins> drat my SSD firmware ISO is a CD image, iso9660 data
<daftykins> http://uk.crucial.com/wcsstore/CrucialSAS/firmware/MX100/MU02/MX100_MU02_BOOTABLE_ALL_CAP.zip
<daftykins> any thoughts on making that boot from a USB flash drive instead of a CD?
<TJ-> It's because the image is hybrid, has a GPT, but the hybrid MBR is broken. p1 is a protection for the entire disk (what we call a protective MBR) but then there's p2 which defines the EFI-SP (inside p1). A correct hybrid would have 3 partitions: p1 0 to 2038759, p2 2038769 to 2043303, and p3 2043304 to 2060287
<daftykins> ah i see! probably just been too long since i used fdisk
<EriC^^> daftykins: how fast is a ssd compared to a hdd?
<daftykins> oh my, they destroy them :>
<EriC^^> how fast does it copy stuff?
<EriC^^> like 90ish mb/sec?
<daftykins> sustained reads from a mechanical HDD? maybe 120MB/sec with a modern one? SSD: it'll saturate SATA 6Gbps ports and do like 450MB/sec read
<daftykins> er lets see if i copy SSD to SSD...
<EriC^^> cool!
<TJ-> Forget sustained, most work on a PC is random I/O ... and that is where SSD wins big. As long as the SSD is connected to a fast interface
<daftykins> ja
<TJ-> latency is minimial
<daftykins> but still i just threw a kubuntu ISO from one SSD onto another, it took about 4 seconds for the 1.3GB file... the windows file copy dialogue said 600MB/sec then fell off to 100MB/sec toward the end
<TJ-> Yes, I don't disagree, I was just focusing on the main areas where they win. We rarely spend all our time moving bif files around
<TJ-> s/bif/big/
<daftykins> EriC^^: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8hwi16hw4eusq0r/ssd%20copy.png?dl=0
<daftykins> TJ-: yep, just being juvenile and racing my drives ;)
<TJ-> there's also the in-memory cache to consider... that can absorb most ISO images
<TJ-> :D
<daftykins> and drive controller cache could mask some too
<daftykins> ignore my query about the above ISO, i was being silly
<EriC^^> the fdisk?
<daftykins> nah my SSD firmware .zip
<TJ-> I think I may have got to the bottom of lotus' wrong-PCI-ID for that WMP600N device. I think the mobo has a glitch. The manual shows there are some advanced timing settings for the PCI bus masters, and on those old mobos the PCI/AGP slots have to share interrupts too. I think that's at the root of it. Here's the IRQ combination chart from te manual - brought back memories of figuring out best
<EriC^^> oh ok
<TJ-> permutations with servers having lots of adapters plugged in! https://iam.tj/projects/misc/kv8-pci-irq.jpg
 * EriC^^ wants an ssd now
<daftykins> EriC^^: :D they are the single best advancement for PCs i'd say in... ever
<EriC^^> fire sliced bread ssd
<EriC^^> :D
<TJ-> no... PCIe was that :p
<TJ-> switching from a contended bus design to multiple dedicated lanes
<daftykins> ok you raise a fair point :D
<daftykins> i did get so excited i was about ready to drop Â£700+ on a skylake build with NVMe SSD
<TJ-> hehehehe ... or maybe it was UEFI :D
<daftykins> TJ-: a telco engineer i know did a line test for me today and said a line reported it was 6km long XD
<TJ-> Ouch!
<daftykins> glad i caught him, he retires in a month :(
<TJ-> Start burrowing your fibre :)
<daftykins> then i won't have my contact anymore!
<MonkeyDust> tweet: i just sneezed
<TJ-> sneeze: i just tweeted
<daftykins> thought i'd investigate 'nc' - http://paste.ubuntu.com/13210489/
<daftykins> that was a rabbit hole ;)
<EriC^^> can winxp read gpt fine?
<EriC^^> TJ-: ?
<daftykins> hrmm, not sure on that one
<daftykins> sneaking suspicion maybe 64-bit only
<daftykins> XP 64-bit was quite rare though
<EriC^^> any cool xbox or ps3 games you'd recommend?
<EriC^^> i might buy a few tomorrow when i get a hdmi cable
<TJ-> XP on GPT? not usually
<TJ-> EriC^^: see http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/proddocs/en-us/dm_convert_mbr_disk.mspx?mfr=true
<EriC^^> does it seem better to use a backup disk as mbr not gpt?
<BluesKaj> for XP I think so
<daftykins> in server 2003 you could use GPT as storage but not boot from it iirc, so XP 64-bit can probably use a GPT disk as storage too
<daftykins> vanilla 32-bit XP - probably nothing
<BluesKaj> W7 didn't even play too nice with gpt on my laptop
<BluesKaj> so I went with msdos and legacy
<daftykins> hmm i've not had issues
<daftykins> my 10TB RAID is storage to a win7 install
<BluesKaj> you obviously never delete movies ;-)
<daftykins> only the bad ones!
<EriC^^> did you see the martian?
<BluesKaj> not on bluray yet
<EriC^^> markao seems like troll material
<daftykins> didn't get around to it, they were booked up in the local cinema :( went to see "The Walk" there instead though, about that ~1970s high wire walker :D
<EriC^^> cool
<EriC^^> did you like it?
<daftykins> yeah enjoyed it
<EriC^^> cool
<daftykins> amusingly when my friend and i walked in, we were the only 2 there!
<EriC^^> lol yeah
<EriC^^> happens sometimes
<EriC^^> once me and my friend were alone in a theater and so we took off our shoes
<EriC^^> he hid my shoes somewhere and after the movie i had to look around for it
<EriC^^> lol
<daftykins> XD
<EriC^^> we might have been drunk i think
<BluesKaj> The Martian should be out on bluray in Jan. I live 70Km from the nearest movie theater, so we watch them later
<EriC^^> bluray resolution is 4k?
<BluesKaj> normal is 1080p
<EriC^^> cool
<BluesKaj> my TV isn't capable of 4k anyway ...there isn't a lot of source material in that format yet
<daftykins> yeah you'd be hard pushed to even get a TV with the right inputs as well as being 4K
<daftykins> plus the 'next big thing' is high dynamic range, allegedly - so that'll be coming
<EriC^^> cool
<EriC^^> i've never tried a bluray movie
<BluesKaj> alsao my gpu can'tr handle that res , it's just a 50buck nvidia 8400gs
<EriC^^> we have dvd's here for like $1 / movie
<EriC^^> normal dvd's not bluray
<daftykins> ouch :D that's an old card indeed
<BluesKaj> it still works well
<daftykins> i like my high bitrate 1080p films with DTS 5.1 :D
<BluesKaj> yup, I use the spdif out on the soundcard with vlc into my audio receiver's coax DAC input
<daftykins> i have a little HTPC i used to use, intel atom + nvidia ion 1 graphics to make use of VDPAU, decoding the HD formats
<daftykins> the other day though i picked up an Amazon FireTV (little black box) with HDMI and 100Mb LAN for Â£50 delivered :D
<daftykins> runs Kodi really nicely as an HTPC
<BluesKaj> I used an m-audio soundcad for a while, but it needed pulse audio since it's driver wasn't fully written for website flash, so i reverted to the intel audio which supports alsa much better then most other audio chip drivers
<BluesKaj> then=than
<EriC^^> this is pretty nuts http://www.technologyreview.com/featuredstory/534986/project-loon/
<EriC^^> helium balloons in the stratosphere to provide internet access to the 4.3 billion people who dont have it, by google
<daftykins> and don't need it
<daftykins> :D
<TJ-> I love the idea... better than satellites, but I have images of jumbo jets dodging the balloons rather like German bombers dodging 'blimps' (barrage balloons) over 1940s London
<EriC^^> lol
 * daftykins starts learning to fly
<TJ-> Even with LEO, satellite latency is quite high, so 'Loon' has the potential to make a lot of realtime stuff possible
<TJ-> Plus the costs are a lot lower, time to deploy is orders of magnitude less, so operational returns don't need to be so high and therefore end-user cost is low
<TJ-> I saw a hint earlier we may end up dropping initramfs-tools in favour of dracut (RedHat's tool). Apparently Debian have/are switching
<daftykins> spug's query is very niche
<TJ-> It's a valid one, though. I've dabbled with enabling wifi in the initrd but never put aside the time to figure it out
<TJ-> makes sense when you need to do an iscsi rootfs mount and there's no wired Ethernet
<daftykins> i can't imagine when that comes up :D
<TJ-> roaming is a typical scenario. it would also be extremely useful when crossing borders with a PC, now that the customs and immigration in so many countries think they have free reign to search laptops and demand cryptographic keys to unlock them
<TJ-> About time! "Facebook Inc. lost a fight with Belgiumâs privacy watchdog after a court ordered it to stop storing personal data from people who donât have an account with the social network."
<OerHeks> When i want to use some gouvernment pages, they want me to login with facebook, complaining aout neighbours who do not take care of themselves, or survey for our council :-D
<OerHeks> silly fools, i wanted to write them .. but i had to login with facvebook to do so
<OerHeks> and this one, my bank uses Omniture-tracker, now Adobe Analytics, and i cannot disable it. all my data goes to Obama.
<TJ-> I refuse point-blank to use such systems.
<OerHeks> If i reject that, i have to walk to the bank and do all payments manually. But 4 out of 5 offices are closed.
<TJ-> The UK government recently changed the way our electoral register is compiled from being the responsiblity of the head-of-household to each individual, and to make it possible to register online using various Government ID documents as proof of identity.
<TJ-> I looked at the site and it wasn't even hosted on a gov.uk domain, and the TLS X509 certificate wasn't issued to the UK government but to some American company (that had 'won' the contract to do this stuff).
<OerHeks> i guess that is why the USA economy is growing, and ours is goind down.
<TJ-> I refused to use it so they sent me docs in the mail, but they required me to send colour copies of my ID docs to be held by my local council. I told them to stuff it, no way I'm putting all my most important data in the hands of a bunch of amateurs where it'll be freely accessible in some filing cabinet or online scan. Currently having 'discussions' with them over the entire security of data issue
<OerHeks> wait .. US Court finds @NSAGov spying violated Americans' rights. http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/NSA_klayman_20151109.pdf
<TJ-> No, it found the NSA violated the rights of a Verizon user who is a firm of lawyers :)
<OerHeks> Spying on us is legal.
<TJ-> I followed that case; it has gone on for a long while. Several plaintiffs were dismissed from the case for 'lack f standing' - not being able to prove NSA did snoop on their communications
<OerHeks> That part is nasty, how to prove they snoop on you.
<TJ-> Yeah, terrible that the US Government pulled that one on its own citizens, but that's beauracracies
<daftykins> :(
<OerHeks> i knew it .. https://www.intellihub.com/vegetarians-beware-plants-dont-like-to-be-eaten-scientists-say/
<TJ-> LOL country folks have known that since the dawn of time... why do you think we're so fit... chasing the carrots and potatoes to get them to market!
<daftykins> TJ-: does jrolland's sound like it's SMART disk status time? you know how much i love smartctl ;)
<TJ-> daftykins: Go for it. I didn't see what the original issue was so I'm flying blind right now
<daftykins> ah i think i spotted something about on reboot he got a failed boot, but the partitions are there on a chroot
<daftykins> yay for my instincts being right, that's one wonky disk
<TJ-> yeah, I thought the user was having issues with the Live ISO, because he was on about the /cow mount
<daftykins> *nod* that threw me too
<TJ-> I've been popping in and out here; working on things here. Going to have a mug of tea to wind down and then get to bed. Was up until 7am today, grr! I really need to break the habit
<daftykins> erk! yep early bed for me tonight, though no tasks for tomorrow as of yet
<daftykins> i was just watching a really neat youtube video on analog vs. digital audio
<TJ-> that brings back memories; digital compression is what allowed me to retire early
<daftykins> oooh
<daftykins> i think this chap worked on ogg originally, he's explaining why sample rates in PCM above 44.1kHz are pretty pointless but why they're used in recording etc
<TJ-> yeah, sample rate dictates the Nyquist frequency, and 44.1kHz means you've got everything including stuff beyond the range of human hearing
<TJ-> But if you're going to resample recordings, you want as high a sample rate as possible to avoid quantization errors, and artefacts
<EriC^^> i think i've seen that nyquist thing in a control course in uni
<TJ-> ideally whenever you resample, it needs to be on a integer fraction so you just ditch every X samples, rather than have to pick the 'closest' or synthesise it using interpolation
<TJ-> sample at 44.1kHz means  the highest frequency captured is 1/2 that, because you require a minimum of 2 points on te complete sine wave to reconstruct the waveform
<daftykins> EriC^^: :D
<daftykins> see i always thought it was double because of stereo Â¬_Â¬
<daftykins> 22.05kHz per channel or something XD
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-11-10
<TJ-> No, 44.1khz  stereo samples 88.2K samples per second, usually 16-bit, for 176.4Kbytes/second
<TJ-> For broadcast it's a bit different, FM stereo analogue broadcasts L+R and L-R
<TJ-> L+R means you can do mono fallback without loss of content, L-R means you can then do (L+R)+(L-R)=2L (the left signal) and (L+R)-(L-R)=2R, the right signal
<TJ-> L-R is simply broadcast at 38kHz, above the audio range, with the L+R in the normal audiable range
<daftykins> that's joint-stereo and full stereo right?
<daftykins> or is it not called that in FM o0
<TJ-> no, 'joint-stereo' is the concept in compressed signals of encoding the shared signal only once
<TJ-> FM stereo is 'matrix-stero' (mid-sideband stereo)
<TJ-> I developed the 'joint-stereo' algorithms in the 1980s without realizing it was particularly special, so the MP3 folks at Fraunhoffer got to name it ! I called it de-duplication
<daftykins> :D wowzer, so were you working for them at the time?
<TJ-> No, I had no idea they even existed, I was well before MP2/MP3 were born.
<daftykins> i feel i'm in the presence of an audio engineering rockstar now :)
<TJ-> I started out writing games engines, focusing on sound, with a school-friend partner. He focused on the graphics side. We had a customer wanted to store a lot of sampled audio, and compression was the only solution. I began researching it and at the time interpolation was about the state-of-the-art, so I went off and developed a compression system that typically achieved 50:1 with music, and higher
<TJ-> with less dynamically diverse sources, and then patented and licenced it to various companies: games, engineering, telecommuncations, computing
<TJ-> This was in the days of the Commodore Amiga, Atari 520 ST, Spectrum, BBC Micro, et al
<TJ-> Our engine was cross-platform, written in assembler, and games companies licenced it from us and put their games on top. Think 'API/framework' in modern parlance
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> hmm probably too early for me then to have heard if it had a name
<TJ-> Well, I called it asterix, but it was never a consumer thing, it was used in the internals of larger systems. The biggest users back then were telecoms companies wanting to multiplex voice circuits that had been switching to digital.
<TJ-> instead of installing more cable/fibre between PoPs they could put some hardware on either end of the link and typically put 100 voice calls down the same link that 1 had required previously
<daftykins> crikey
<daftykins> sounds like that took off in a big way :>
<TJ-> the most enjoyable implementations were for digital jukeboxes, when hard disks started replacing CDs, and when a 320MB SCSI drive back then was full-height and about Â£1200, so compressing the music saved a massive amount
<TJ-> I used to test using Madonna's track 'Like a Virgin' and I got to the point I feel sick whenever I hear it now :)
<TJ-> I seem to have a knack for getting deep into the guts of technology :)
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> mmm Madonna overdose
<daftykins> well that's fascinating stuff TJ-
<daftykins> i shall have to remember you in all topics audio ;)
<daftykins> right i think it's time for that early bed
<daftykins> g'night all o/
<TJ-> g'night, me too I think
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<OerHeks> hi lotus
<lotuspsychje> hey OerHeks :p
<TJ-> morning ... again!
<OerHeks> again and again and again ..
<lotuspsychje> loool
<lotuspsychje> you cant just get rid of me
<OerHeks> That lotuspsychje is a nightowl too
<lotuspsychje> ooo oooo
<lotuspsychje> ooo11OO111OO1 a digital nightowl
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: Your KV8 manual, BIOS reference, page 3-13 LDT & PCI Bus Control, may have a setting that is causing the issue with the WMP600N. See http://data.manualslib.com/pdf3/61/6019/601840-abit/kv8max3.pdf?17bb938c96dcf6a267078151fc0fa9ab
<lotuspsychje> lets c
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: I'd suggest doing a BIOS factory default reset once again, then looking at those settings, take a photo as they are by default so I can see, then try altering them and testing
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: yeah ill do cmos and battery takeout
<TJ-> Also, the interupts are shared over the various devices/PCI sockets. Page 3-19 onwards shows the settings and there's a table on page 3-20
<lotuspsychje> i tryed many things already,minimal defaults, optimized,all pci settings change
<lotuspsychje> but it would make most sense its a mobo issue
<lotuspsychje> but why ubuntu sees it as a wrong device puzzles me lol
<lotuspsychje> one would think, you can see the card or totaly not
<TJ-> It could be a timing issue, and that LDT stuff affects that
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: i have all ltd/pci settings default as the manual right now
<TJ-> PCI1/PCI2 Master 0 WS Write especially
<TJ-> When that is enabled writes are performed with 0 wait-states. Set it to Disabled and 1 wait state is inserted. That might help
<lotuspsychje> ill try to fool around with it
<TJ-> the other possiblity is, the slot the WMP600N is in is using the same resources as the AGP card, or a system device
<TJ-> So the table on 3-20 would help figure out a slot config that avoids any posible conflict
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: there must be something, as the card worked like a charm before
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: right, and the fact we know the card's PCI config space contains the correct values but when the kernel scans the bus it gets that first byte corrupted, says there's a hardware/timing issuing
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<TJ-> It could be the card not mapping its config registers into memory fast enough for the system even. Does the PC have any clock controls so you could reduce the Front-Side Bus MHz as a test?
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: got a reply on my bug from dev to test another specific kernel bah, not gonan try it
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: don't blame you; a lot of that stuff is automated, or done without actually reading the bug report
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: yes its got in-bios overclocking
<TJ-> try slowing it down
<lotuspsychje> ok
<lotuspsychje> lets get this puzzle straight soon :p
<TJ-> it's like being sherlock holmes sometimes
<lotuspsychje> lol
<TJ-> After you've eliminated all the other possibilities, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, is the answer
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: i love systematic thinking :p
<TJ-> Well, it beats the heck out of reinstalling :)
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: my xenial just keep rocknrolling for now on it :p
<lotuspsychje> lol: https://omnirat.eu/
<lotuspsychje> i wonder if clamav picks it already
<lotuspsychje> http://clamav-du.securesites.net/cgi-bin/clamgrok?virus=omni&search-type=contains&case-sensitivity=No&database=daily&database=main&display=database&display=virus&.submit=Query+verzenden&.cgifields=database&.cgifields=search-type&.cgifields=case-sensitivity&.cgifields=display
<wileee> main channel needs a check if your medicated at the door
<lotuspsychje> wileee: 1800 users though :p
<wileee> yeah, darn lurkers
<lotuspsychje> lolz
<wileee> you forget they are there
<lotuspsychje> idling support
<wileee> true
<lotuspsychje> wileee: the new omnirat that can take linux: https://omnirat.eu/
<wileee> heh, do it all while on the beach, this happened to all the pro studio musicians when digital hit
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> wileee: scanned clamav database already and showing omni
<lotuspsychje> http://clamav-du.securesites.net/cgi-bin/
<wileee> music though it has made a lot of people able to be creative in a simpler process so in the end is good, strange being a trained player though when you meet these folk and hey are really interesting without the standard path followed. Always been these players self taught anyway.
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<wileee> here is a local group, one member played in a total improv group I was in self taught and probably the most creative person I've worked with, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7iUMSQnHUM
<wileee> these guys are really out there
<lotuspsychje> lets c
<wileee> beautiful noize
<lotuspsychje> wileee: what genre is this called
<lotuspsychje> never heard something like that b4
<lotuspsychje> oh..experimental noise
<wileee> lotuspsychje, Not sure there is a genre really, many do this though in some form or another, the detune of the pitch sounds to me like some composers who went beyond 12 tones, ex noise yeah sound good
<wileee> They did an album with some others I know in honor of Joseph Campbel after his passing.
<wileee> a person I know new him
<lotuspsychje> wileee: like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38r6SYN8kLg
<wileee> lotuspsychje, Sure, lots of variations to some extent, my guys rarely as smegma do a beat, however here are some of them as another group. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5X3YUW2ztf4
 * lotuspsychje likes crazy stylez
<wileee> I like it your link
<lotuspsychje> lol thats very experimental
<wileee> I played in a jazz quartet with the trumpet player called Years of Sweat
<lotuspsychje> i like the first noise better
<lotuspsychje> wileee: wich instrument you play?
<wileee> tenor sax, flute, clarinet, other saxesand fretless bass
<lotuspsychje> nice
<lotuspsychje> wileee: trumpet myself and groovebox 505 used to
<lotuspsychje> i kind like digital music
<wileee> Cool, have you heard of Dave Monet's trumpets?
<lotuspsychje> no
<wileee> http://www.monette.net/  this will blow your mind
<wileee> I knew Dave in high school he was a instrument repairman at a music store I was the janitor at
<lotuspsychje> nice
<wileee> I feel really lucky I've lived an interesting life without even trying, probably many feel that way I guess
<wileee> happened on linux just needing a computer for college, and now I'm here harassing users, it's a beautiful dream. ;)
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> few users complained about slow apt-get update today USA
<lotuspsychje> and new security hole out for all ubuntu versions see !usn
<cfhowlett> !usn
<ubot5> Please see http://www.ubuntu.com/usn for information about Ubuntu security updates.
<lotuspsychje> the article about it: http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/canonical-patches-linux-kernel-vulnerability-in-ubuntu-15-10-15-04-14-04-and-12-04-lts-495939.shtml
<lotuspsychje> !wayland
<ubot5> Wayland is a display server protocol that is intended to replace X. More information can be found at http://wayland.freedesktop.org/ . Ubuntu is instead focusing on development of !Mir; see its factoid for more information.
<BluesKaj> Howdy all
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj and EriC^^
<EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
<BluesKaj> hi lotuspsychje
<BluesKaj> back on Trusty . Tired of small unreadable fonts on plasma5. Setting the fonts on systemsettings5 as root only works on titlebars , not the toolbars or dialogs on apps requiring root like partition editors etc ....it's a real pita
<lotuspsychje> :p
<BluesKaj> posting this in #kubuntu-devel as well
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: i bought a samsung :P
<EriC^^> couldn't find lg with the right stand to be honest though :D
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: wich 1?
<EriC^^> it's 1366x768, couldn't find 1920x1080 in 32" size
<EriC^^> said none of the suppliers are giving them that
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: nice and happy with quality?
<EriC^^> yeah it's nice
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: try a 1080p mkv on it :p
<EriC^^> that's not a bad idea
<EriC^^> i want to get a hdmi cable today and maybe dvd player
<EriC^^> and some usbs and stuff
<lotuspsychje> quality of the tv will show best on bluray quality
<EriC^^> there's a guy here that sells dvd's for like $1 / movie
<EriC^^> yeah
<EriC^^> if there's a nice bluray movie i might get one ( i can play it on the ps3 right? )
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: not sure of ps3 dont have one myself
<EriC^^> np
<EriC^^> how to put on a usb maybe ill try a bit
<EriC^^> pretty bored
<EriC^^> fat32 and put the movie on it and just plug it in the tv?
<lotuspsychje> ntfs for 4gig+ files
 * EriC^^ goes to get the usb from the car
<lotuspsychje> like if you grab a 9gig mkv
<lotuspsychje> it will need ntfs or ext4
<EriC^^> mp4 works?
<EriC^^> crap usb wont fit
<EriC^^> it's 1gb
<EriC^^> i'e a 16gb one but it has archlinux on it :/
<EriC^^> *i've
<lotuspsychje> oh
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: brrip is nice but also 1gig+
<EriC^^> i put some scenes from matrix on the usb
<lotuspsychje> if its 1080p even a trailer :p
<EriC^^> i'll give it a shot to see, if it works, i think ill put on the arch i have it imaged anyways
<EriC^^> brb
<lotuspsychje> http://www.h264info.com/clips.html
<EriC^^> it works!
<EriC^^> i wonder if i can just use the external usb drive
<EriC^^> just had that idea about to format the other usb
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: yes, but not for subtitles
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: it will play most formats raw
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: unless the subs are builtin
<Latrodectus> lotuspsychje: how's your day been going?
<lotuspsychje> Latrodectus: fine mate
<Latrodectus> that's good
<lotuspsychje> how about you Latrodectus
<Latrodectus> good so far
<Latrodectus> nothing to gripe about
<Latrodectus> yet...
<lotuspsychje> new security holes out for ubuntu versions
<lotuspsychje> !usn
<ubot5> Please see http://www.ubuntu.com/usn for information about Ubuntu security updates.
<lotuspsychje> and some users have been complaining about US sources slow apt-get update
<lotuspsychje> its been slow in #ubuntu today, no other news :p
<Latrodectus> lotuspsychje: ty for the update
<lotuspsychje> np
<Latrodectus> of cource the us sources are slow... murrican internet
<Latrodectus> murrican internet -> anything but free
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> oh well there is #ubuntu-mirrors for known issues
<Latrodectus> yup
<Latrodectus> there should almost be a torrent dir for updates
<lotuspsychje> that would be alot of work
<lotuspsychje> but nice idea
<Latrodectus> it would scale with demand
<lotuspsychje> true
<Latrodectus> but then security would be in the hands or p2p
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks helps seeding torrents i think
<Latrodectus> oerheks?
<lotuspsychje> yeah check the userlist names
<daftykins> afternoon o/
<OerHeks> Torrents are safe, you can check the md5sum.
<daftykins> hmm sneaky TVs: http://arstechnica.co.uk/security/2015/11/own-a-vizio-smart-tv-its-watching-you/
<lotuspsychje> hey daftykins !
<OerHeks> and yes, i seed them, but today the average download is low
<Latrodectus> OerHeks: but some users don't know how to check hashes...
<OerHeks> !md5sum
<ubot5> To verify your Ubuntu ISO image (or other files for which an MD5 checksum is provided), see http://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowToMD5SUM or http://www.linuxquestions.org/linux/answers/LQ_ISO/Checking_the_md5sum_in_Windows
<OerHeks> !hashes
<ubot5> See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuHashes for the md5sums of all downloadable Ubuntu releases
<OerHeks> i see this page is up2date, but the picture says 9.04 .. pretty outdated https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BitTorrent
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: cool page
<Latrodectus>  ^
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: good evening mate
 * TJ- waves the solder
<TJ-> I think I've got one of those Abit KV8 mobos in my stores somewhere; I'm going to look, if so, I can test the same scenario as you have
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: ill test it out soon tnx
<lotuspsychje> bbl loggin on xenial box
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: and the mystery continues lol
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: cmos clear and battery out did nothing
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: pci/ltd bios options all on default
<daftykins> no updates for your board available i take it?
<lotus|xenial> daftykins: not sure, but it worked on trusty thats whats weird right
<TJ-> And the mobos in my store aren't precisely the same
<daftykins> oh yeah
<TJ-> lotus|xenial: OK, so we now know it has default settings. Now try altering those LDT settings. First one was to change the Master WS Write to Disabled
<lotus|xenial> ok lemme go try that
<lotus|xenial> brb
<TJ-> lotus|xenial: Oh, and make sure that the WMP600N is actually in PCI1 or PCI2 port
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: the first or seconf ontop right
<lotus|xenial> or bottom?
<TJ-> I think PC1 is nearest the AGP slot, let me check
<lotus|xenial> i cant use pci1 as the x800 is a big card
<lotus|xenial> pci2 is possible
<TJ-> Yes, PCI1 is nearest the AGP slot.
<TJ-> Right, PCI2 then :)
<lotus|xenial> ok brb lemme change
<TJ-> daftykins: I brought that blown SSD back to life today.. amazing what 20p of transistor can do :)
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> excellent
<daftykins> i like a good resurrection
<TJ-> Now all I need is to get the host mobo to boot from USB!
<daftykins> there's always plop :>
<TJ-> how is that going to help if the BIOS won't read the USB device?
<TJ-> its an 'embedded' mobo so no drives hanging off it, so its either USB, PXE, or do the install from another PC, but I'm trying to force it to behave - as it has booted from USB previously. I vaguely recall I had to pull the CMOS battery or something after each successful USB boot
<daftykins> oh ok i thought a standard system
<daftykins> i thought plop was a bootable CD that can pass over to flash drives was all
 * daftykins is preparing for patch tuesday
<TJ-> Yes, it does. The issue here is perplexingly different. The BIOS offers about 8 different 'types' of USB-based boot, but the "USB HDD" and other 'HDD' permutations don't work. The 'FDD' permutations sometimes result in a message saying no boot loader found, try again. For all permutations the USB's LED blinks to show the BIOS is accessing it :s
<lotus|xenial> LOOOOL
<TJ-> I thought MS scrapped the monthly cycle and put them out ad-hoc
<lotus|xenial> who wants a kiss?
<lotus|xenial> 00:09.0 Network controller [0280]: Ralink corp. RT2800 802.11n PCI [1814:0601]
<daftykins> hmm, could it be one of those flash drives that presents as some other mode?
<daftykins> eh what solved that? :O
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: you did it mate!
<lotus|xenial> pci port2 + that master ws write
 * TJ- gloes
<lotus|xenial> i never tryed port2
 * TJ- glows, too :D
<daftykins> :D
<lotus|xenial> it always stuck in pci3 or pci4
<daftykins> it was as simple as placement?
<lotus|xenial> yep
<lotus|xenial> now driver recognizes it
<TJ-> I think more likely the Master Write - putting a delay of 1 cycle on bus accesses
<EriC^^> !yay
<ubot5> Glad you made it! :-)
<lotus|xenial> yessss
<daftykins> XD
<EriC^^> !beer
<lotus|xenial> lol
<lotus|xenial> now the logic of tthis?
<daftykins> ok i'm gonna get a coffee and cake from the coffee shop to celebrate on your behalf, lotus|xenial ;)
<lotus|xenial> why did this work on trusty on port3?
<TJ-> daftykins: the problem was the first byte read from the PCI config registers had its 2nd nibble corrupted, but when we read the Registers ourselves the content was correct, so it had to be an access issue, and the usual cause is the host reading the registers before the device has got them fully mapped into the host address space
<TJ-> lotus|xenial: Because the PCI bus scanning code has gone through a LOT of changes
<TJ-> It is now much faster and more parallelised
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: what kind of changes?
<daftykins> ah-har
<daftykins> so it was a race condition in essence?
<TJ-> The code was getting to be a mess of quirks so it was re-written cleaner and more flexible
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: could you update my bug in your words mate
<TJ-> daftykins: kind of, yes, although in this case it was simply the mobo was optimsing hardware reads too much
<lotus|xenial> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1513477
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1513477 in linux (Ubuntu) "Ralink RT2800pci doesnt work by default" [Medium,Incomplete]
<TJ-> will do
<lotus|xenial> tnx mate
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: what should i choose fix commited or fix released
<lotus|xenial> EriC^^: hows the mkv doing :p
<TJ-> lotus|xenial: I've done it: "Invalid" - since it wasn't a bug in Linux
<lotus|xenial> ok
<TJ-> I also re-write the bug title to better reflect the issue and to make it easier for others to find it
<TJ-> bug 1513477
<ubot5> bug 1513477 in linux (Ubuntu) "PCI device has incorrect Vendor:Device ID when Southbridge used 0 wait writes" [Medium,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1513477
<lotus|xenial> nice
<TJ-> lotus|xenial: that "Christopher M. Penalver" is a pain! For the last 3 or 4 years he's had to be constantly told not to take over bugs that devs are working on. There have been so major blow-ups over it in the bug-squad as a result. At one time when I was actually assigned to bugs he'd tell users to do things and change the status and keep on changing even after being asked to stop. I thought he'd
<TJ-> gone quiet but he shows up on your bug :D
<EriC^^> lotus|xenial: great, watched a couple movies
<lotus|xenial> nice nice
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: tnx for the bug editing
<TJ-> Glad its sorted; it was an interesting one though :)
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: driver=rt2800pci driverversion=4.2.0-16-generic firmware=0.34
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: to compare with yours
<lotus|xenial> im glad ubuntu has nothing to do with it
<lotus|xenial> EriC^^: check blackhat brrip, nice movie
<EriC^^> will do
<EriC^^> i want to go get a hdmi cable today and some usbs and maybe a ps3 game or 2 and maybe a ssd
<EriC^^> been saying that for a week though, been lazy :D
<lotus|xenial> lool
<lotus|xenial> did someone win the lottery :p
<EriC^^> tonight's the night though, i'm pretty psyched :P
<lotus|xenial> hehe
<EriC^^> which ssd do you suggest lotus?
<EriC^^> in case i find they have
<lotus|xenial> EriC^^: samsung 850 pro 256
<lotus|xenial> not the cheaper evo's
<EriC^^> ok
<EriC^^> any experience with that intel compute stick thingy?
<lotus|xenial> EriC^^: didnt test myself no,wy?
<EriC^^> oerheks mentioned it and i've been itching to get it if they have it
<lotus|xenial> oh i think OerHeks can explain more on it then
<lotus|xenial> EriC^^: whats your end goal to do?
<lotus|xenial> portable arch?
<EriC^^> nah i just thought it would be fun, it's like $120 for a usb pc O.o
<EriC^^> like maybe plug it in and watch youtube videos on the tv
<OerHeks> there are 2 types, with windows, or without, but without have lower specs AFAIK
<EriC^^> it's too handy, handiness vs price is huge
<OerHeks> but a stick in hdmi, i don't like it ( without extentioncable)
<lotus|xenial> ok dinnertime guys
<lotus|xenial> have a great nite
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: tnx again for the solve mate
<EriC^^> OerHeks: yeah i dont think it will work with the tv, just remembered that, it's too tiny in the back
<EriC^^> OerHeks: do you think you could remove windows and install ubuntu to one of those? instead of getting the ubuntu with lower spec?
<OerHeks> Sure, why not?
<OerHeks> http://liliputing.com/2015/07/simplest-way-to-load-ubuntu-on-intel-compute-stick-with-windows-so-far.html
<EriC^^> cool
<OerHeks> i would save my money 'till after xmas
<OerHeks> jan/feb prices and special offers
<OerHeks> btw you all have the new kernel ?
<EriC^^> i'm still on 67
<EriC^^> low on isp transfer right now
<OerHeks> 3.19.0-33-generic #38
<TJ-> hmmm, all my equipment must know I have been soldering - 1 of the fridge/freezers has blown the top off a transistor!
<daftykins> they're all ganging up for some work to be done :)
<TJ-> it feels that way!
<daftykins> odd, usually when i take something apart, the rest stop showing quirks for fear of being opened up themselves :>
<TJ-> yeah, normally, that is what happens with me
<daftykins> yesterday was really odd, i woke up to find my heating on - turned out the dying batteries in the wireless control thermostat had somehow made it decide to run itself
<daftykins> somehow no more signal saying "heating off" meant "hey lets run!"
<TJ-> because the TY has blown it's cap I can't read the part number, but I think its Z7S Y227 which is SO old I'm going to have fun finding a compatible replacement
<daftykins> doh!
<daftykins> hey did i hear right that maplin closed down across the UK? we don't have one down here but i thought they did
<TJ-> Not that I know of
<daftykins> i went in once when the slow blow fuse in my speaker set blew
<Latrodectus> i need to buy a soldering kit :(
<Latrodectus> and a ominmeter (i think that's what their called)
<daftykins> multimeter perhaps
<OerHeks> all these appliances blownup ...something to do with all those solarflares lately ?
<TJ-> Get a rework station that has hot air and soldering iron
<TJ-> I do wish the manufacturers would make it easier to locate the marking codes against the component part number, its actually a Z0107MN/5AA4 Triac.
<OerHeks> TJ-, if a triac blows, there is a failure somewhere else too, isn't it?
<EriC^^> how much mbps do you need to watch youtube videos without buffering?
<OerHeks> sure 5 mbit would be enough
<EriC^^> i think i have 24mbps right now or so, but i want to change the internet to use a bigger transfer one, largest they have is 8mbps
<EriC^^> ok i guess 6 or 8 then
<daftykins> i think most streaming services enjoy 5Mb (megabits) per second for most things
<OerHeks> 6 mbit for digital tv
<daftykins> come on Microsoft i'm ready for patch Tuesday :P
<TJ-> OerHeks: usually, but in this case I know a short caused it. Replacing a thermistor at the same time
<OerHeks> oh oke, continue
<daftykins> happy to help eating anything good in said fridge whilst it is repaired :>
<OerHeks> warm beer is awesome
<daftykins> noooo D:
 * OerHeks remembers a fishingtrip, beer in the sidepocket for 6 hrs ..
<OerHeks> never been that drunk man :-D
<daftykins> lemme guess, no fish? :)
<EriC^^> is there an easy way to catch a cat?
<OerHeks> EriC^^, ... with a fish ?
<OerHeks> :-D
<EriC^^> lol
<OerHeks> cat in heat, are easy
<TJ-> well, hope the cops don't chase me... I just hot-wired the freezer :p
<OerHeks> I think it is the time now
 * daftykins spots TJ- speeding around the fields on a fridge
<daftykins> "woohoooooooo!"
<TJ-> :D towed by 2 huskies
<daftykins> lmao
<TJ-> haha - if it don't get fixed I'll turn it into a sled ... just in time for snow :)
<TJ-> hmmm, it seems my apple pies have been hacking the freezer :p
<daftykins> :O
<EriC^^> what's the highest resolution an av cable can carry?
<TJ-> "it depends"
<OerHeks> for playstation ? http://manuals.playstation.net/document/en/ps3/current/settings/videooutput.html
<OerHeks> an 3 plug av cable cannot get 1080p, i thought it could do 720 p, but that is not on that page.
<daftykins> EriC^^: which kind?
<EriC^^> ps3 one
<daftykins> single link DVI = 1920x1200 ; HDMI up to 1.4 = 2560x1600; VGA = 2048x1536...
<EriC^^> it says 480i
<daftykins> oh so non-HDMI?
<EriC^^> yeah
<daftykins> hehe damn it EriC^^ go to the shop! :D
<EriC^^> lol
<OerHeks> buy that cable, instead of that intel computestick
<EriC^^> yeah
<daftykins> back in a tick, the irony of a Linux server VM atop a windows host continues
<daftykins> tum-te-tum
<TJ-> yes, mine is hungry too
<daftykins> :D
<EriC^^> got an hdmi cable
<EriC^^> yay!
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> now you will see a real quality picture :) what was the standard cable, composite or S-Video?
<daftykins> or component even
<EriC^^> the av one?
<EriC^^> i think it's standard, i never used it though except couple times, i used to have an hdmi cable but it broke a while ago
<EriC^^> i like to hook up the pc to it for the music
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/13218371/ <-- plm's xorg log - i've not seen that before
<daftykins> i've suggested fglrx being tried, but wonder if it's more critical than that
<EriC^^> hmm
<EriC^^> maybe fglrx will fix it
<OerHeks> Should i stay on 15.04 > donate a donut, should i upgrade, donate 2 donuts.
<OerHeks> downgrade to 14.04, 2 donuts & icecream
 * daftykins pats LTS
<OerHeks> icecream\o/
<daftykins> it's getting too cold for ice cream ;_;
<wileee> lts lemon truffle syrup makes all ice cream wonderful
 * wileee dreams of truffle hunting with a favored swine
<Bashing-om> "wonderful" must include the word 'chocolate' in the description .
<OerHeks> oh that is why you say lts ..
<wileee> true chocolate on dat
<Bashing-om> wonderful !
<Latrodectus> people should drink the lts coolaid
<Bashing-om> physchodelic ^^ ?
<daftykins> TJ-: did you mention there was a bug of 15.10 ignoring the interfaces file recently?
<OerHeks> hmm #ubuntu is not in the logs ..
<wileee> I took the lts little blue pyramids, oh the colors
<wileee> not
<Bashing-om> wileee: I  did not believe the above, as I know you have better sense . - How could one 'buntu if they are not "there" ?
<OerHeks> daftykins, you have been to Chester lately ?
<daftykins> OerHeks: never! have to fly to get to England :)
<wileee> Bashing-om, I'm always there, just may be one of my many faces.
<OerHeks> oh, so this was not you ? http://www.boredpanda.com/public-bench-prank-plaques-chester-council/
<wileee> one for every occasion
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> those are graet
<daftykins> *great
<wileee> I like this link from that link, http://www.boredpanda.com/funny-fake-self-help-books-obvious-plant-jeff-wysaski/
<OerHeks> i was looking at those smartphone-zombies http://static.boredpanda.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/screens-stealing-soul-sur-fake-antoine-geiger-25.jpg
<daftykins> my friends have real problems being 'present' when out and about in public places these days, total slaves to their phones
<OerHeks> i don't have friends, they have smartphones, me none.
<OerHeks> :-(
<OerHeks> i don't count anymore
<OerHeks> calling me costs money, they say.
<OerHeks> maybe that is why i don't do any effort to get such BQ 5.0 hd
<daftykins> :D
<JanC> well, the bq 4.5 is cheaper  ;)
<OerHeks> 5.0 has a little better batterytime
<OerHeks> But helping my mom with bills is a little higher priority, that is the real reason.
<wileee> you're a good son ;)
<wileee> so I assume, heh
<wileee> son*
<OerHeks> Well, i like to kick my brother in the <somewhere> as he has a good job, own house etc ... but he has 2 kids too.
<OerHeks> oh, they have smartphones.
<wileee> heh, diabolical
<OerHeks> and oke, it makes me proud, she was there for us all these years, now it is our turn.
<OerHeks> ( he does legal work for her, that can be expensive too)
<wileee> common theme in many cultures, most really population wise, The US fails here among a few others
<OerHeks> True, some old people never see their kids, maybe once a month or less.. i live 10 km from her house, 40 minutes on my bicycle.
<wileee> my mom and I are not even talking now, her choice, an only child here, never really attached emotionally past about 10 yrs old, my family rarely contacts each other
<wileee> welcome to the US, lol
<OerHeks> daftykins, that meles is on trusty, kernel 4.0.0-040000-generic is not for trusty, even after removal of nvidia 352 .. is it worth looking into that?
<OerHeks> and that ppa, https://launchpad.net/~beineri/+archive/ubuntu/opt-qt55-trusty
<OerHeks> ...
<daftykins> OerHeks: i'd rather the guy weren't using a mainline, just being really stubborn since the 3.13 didn't support his laptop i think. haswell and broadwell based machine, so super recent
<OerHeks> that kernel wants systemD, no?
<daftykins> i don't think that's an issue for testing against 14.04, should be alright
<OerHeks> ke
<daftykins> bah my nice new disk enclosure stopped working >8\
 * OerHeks blames sunflares
<TJ-> Just looked at this meles issue - I *think* it looks like the opengl compiz plugin missing
<daftykins> sounds like a plan, i'm playing with my drive enclosure now =|
<TJ-> lost power, or stopped responding on the interface?
<daftykins> pops up on my PC just fine, but it's a storage drive for use with my xbox one
<daftykins> unfortunately in their wisdom, the things use a modified MBR so that they're not readable as standard from a PC
<TJ-> strange
<daftykins> argh there's a disk browser available but it's hidden behind a scene FTP
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-11-11
<TJ-> what does the raw data on the drive look like for the first 8 sectors?
<daftykins> i've just managed to obtain the program and convert it, it's appearing as "GPT protected" to my windows 10 PC
<daftykins> firing up a Linux machine now
<daftykins> perhaps MS have changed their methodology since this program was made
<daftykins> xubuntu claims the GPT tables are corrupted
<TJ-> look at the raw data, ignore the tools
<daftykins> yeah i'll revert it to stock first
<daftykins> hrmm not used to using dd in this context; is "sudo dd if=/dev/sdb of=file bs=1M count=1 ok to grab the first 1MB? :) seems not based on the data i saw
 * daftykins puts another " up there
<daftykins> hrmm hexdump
<TJ-> daftykins: yes that works
<TJ-> then you can "hexdump -C file"
<daftykins> hehe, i guess 1MB is a lot... it's going for some time.
<daftykins> ah there we go, man page to the rescue
<TJ-> well, it should be 512 x 35 sectors to get primary GPT
<TJ-> so about 20KB is all that is needed
<daftykins> i can't work out what value or unit hexdump -n requires for 'length'
<daftykins> the manpage is rubbish
<daftykins> or i could just host the file XD
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/k2omzaodp46q8ae/dd?dl=0
<daftykins> that appears to have a download function
<daftykins> ah yeah i see some strings using "hexdump -C file -n 1024"
<TJ-> dropbox doesn't work for me, not even with allowing its Javascript
<daftykins> ok lemme throw it on a webserver
<daftykins> http://techblo.gg/stuff/dd_image
<daftykins> that should be good :>
<TJ-> oooo! 000001f0  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 99 cc  |................|
<TJ-> those last 2 signature bytes are usually 55 AA so it looks like 99 CC is the 'locked' signature
<TJ-> I bet if you change those it'd be read by the tools
<daftykins> ooh :D what'd be the easiest way to action that change?
<TJ-> fdisk -l /dev/loop1
<TJ-> GPT PMBR size mismatch (976773165 != 2047) will be corrected by w(rite).
<TJ-> Disk /dev/loop1: 1 MiB, 1048576 bytes, 2048 sectors
<TJ-> Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
<TJ-> Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
<TJ-> I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
<TJ-> Disklabel type: dos
<TJ-> Disk identifier: 0x78563412
<TJ-> Device       Boot Start       End   Sectors   Size Id Type
<TJ-> /dev/loop1p1          1 976773165 976773165 465.8G ee GPT
<TJ-> oops! pastebin silly :D
<TJ-> "hexedit" ... type-over with the correct values at offset 0x1FE, then Ctrl+X to save (answer Yes)
<daftykins> ooh ty
<TJ-> BUT... don't do it on the device itself!!
<TJ-> the EFI-SP starts where the primary GPT should start
<daftykins> ah just on the file, then dd to and fro?
<TJ-> No, don't alter the disk. There's something special in where it has put the GPT primary tables.
<daftykins> ah ok so i'll have to image the whole disk >8\/
<TJ-> The primary GPT header should be in sector 1-34
<TJ-> the secondary is at the very end of the device
<daftykins> annoyingly the Linux laptop i'm working from doesn't have enough storage to image up this 500GB disk in its' entirety
<daftykins> i could put it on a network drive though
<TJ-> What was the original problem?
<daftykins> i've got two SATA to USB 3.0 adapters for use with my xbox, today... neither one will show up to the xbox at all
<daftykins> plugging the drives into my desktop PC shows the drives are definitely there and talking, just seems like they've had a falling out with the xbox :D
<daftykins> i'm tempted to contact their support about it; but i don't imagine getting too far
<daftykins> all it is is a storage drive of installed games, so not the end of the world, just means a big re-download
<TJ-> correction. GPT primary header is at Sector 1. I was mis-reading
<TJ-> so, temporarily altering 0x1FE from 99 CC to 55 AA should be safe.
<daftykins> i'm a tad puzzled on the way to attack this then, do you think i should make a full image?
<TJ-> OK, going back  a bit
<TJ-> USB3<>SATA adapters. Are you using those on the PC, too
<daftykins> yep
<TJ-> Can we rule them out as the problem?
<daftykins> i took a second drive and used one of the two to connect it to the xbox and it came up right away
<TJ-> it does sound like something specific to the XBox then
<daftykins> *nod*
<daftykins> just found their FAQ page on diagnosing storage and i've tried all their golden advice already
<daftykins> "turn the xbox off and on again"
<daftykins> "try another USB port"
<daftykins> :D
<TJ-> look at the 'new' drive it does see; does it's sector 0 have that same signature 99 CC
<daftykins> i'll go grab it and bring it up
<TJ-> maybe the fix is to put it back to 55 AA :)
<TJ-> no idea what would change that though!
<daftykins> unless that program i just used to change between 'xbox' and 'PC' mode killed it
<TJ-> maybe it does that to the drives deliberately in order to 'hide' the drives?
<daftykins> i think so yeah, stops folk copying the content so freely
<daftykins> it'd be a good step to stripping DRM and spreading games
<wileee> heh !list
<OerHeks> wileee, all torrents are here http://torrents.linuxmint.com/
<TJ-> daftykins: Aha. The Primary GPT's CRC is incorrect
<TJ-> So yes, I think the tool has altered key bytes and not regenerated the CRC of the header
 * OerHeks hides behind a glass bacardi-cola
<wileee> I knew this was not exactly the stuff in whatever the list holds, the drm strip was the trigger
<OerHeks> ?
<OerHeks> did you install that budu script thingy ?
<daftykins> mint!?
 * daftykins shakes a fist
<daftykins> TJ-: hmm, should i still do a dump of the other disk? maybe less than 1MB this time?
<wileee> funny how linux has so many derivatives of something, everyone or some anyway want individuality I suppose
<TJ-> daftykins: offset 0x5C in the GPT header should have a 4-byte CRC32. In the image it's 0x0
<daftykins> it kind of annoys me, if they could work together it'd be a de-duplication of effort and more work could be done on the fewer :)
<TJ-> daftykins: that's offset 0x25C in image file
<TJ-> I'd have thought they've jsut moved the CRC32 somewhere else, lets find it :D
 * TJ- dons his Sherlock Holmes cape and picks up the magnifying glass
<wileee> fair assessment is they are more a like than different across the board at least from a armchair view
<TJ-> daftykins: Grrr, I'm tired. the CRC32 is at 0x58 (0x258 in the image) and its there! My memory is failing me
<daftykins> TJ-: ooh this other one came up showing me the NTFS partition once i let it use the primary table
<daftykins> it said the backup was corrupt
<daftykins> (parted)
<TJ-> daftykins: That's interesting. maybe there is no backup on these drives. use dd to look at the last 34 sectors
<daftykins> i've no idea how to do that XD
<TJ-> daftykins: I noticed in the primary header, offset 0x28 (0x228) first usable LBA for partitions - is set to 2, when it ought to be 0x22 (34)
<daftykins> i've grabbed the first 1MB again on this second disk; http://techblo.gg/stuff/dd_image2
<TJ-> daftykins: HAHA! that was it. I changed it to 0x22 at offset 0x228 and the tools recognise the GPT
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i've reconnected the original disk
<TJ-> I've had to use 'cgdisk' on the partial disk image because the other tools won't ignore there not being a complete disk
<daftykins> can i hexedit the 1MB image then write it back?
<TJ-> it'd be easier to just hexedit the disk device directly
<TJ-> hexedit /dev/sdX
<daftykins> true, just heeded your earlier warning :> nothing to lose here though
<TJ-> well, you have an image of that area of the disk so you could just put the original back with dd
<daftykins> ok i'm in the hexedit view
<TJ-> As long as you take an image of the original first, you're covered (as long as you don't make changes outside the range covered by the backup image). Right now you're working with just the 1st 2 sectors.
<TJ-> navigate to offset 0x228
<TJ-> you should see 0x02
<TJ-> change to 0x22
<TJ-> also, make sure you changed the signature at 0x1FE to 55 AA
<TJ-> that's the protective MBR signature
<daftykins> ok first change done
<daftykins> at 0x228
<TJ-> tip: "hexedit -s ..." will give you a sector-based display which is often easier to work with when working on disk images
<daftykins> so we have 99 at 0x1FE
<daftykins> ah yes that made it far easier to see XD
<TJ-> so change from 99 CC to 55 AA
<daftykins> alrighty, that's all finished
<daftykins> parted still claims both GPTs are corrupt
<daftykins> shall i take it to the xbox to test anyway?
<TJ-> forget parted, use cgdisk
<TJ-> when it opens, choose Verify and see the text it reports
<TJ-> It may be you've got to edit the Secondary GPT header too
<daftykins> CRC invalid for both
<TJ-> you've got the same header there that I have :s
<daftykins> perhaps i did something wrong? i only made two edits
<daftykins> hrmm the disk looks totally different now, standby
<daftykins> no, 0x228 definitely has "22"
<TJ-> https://iam.tj/projects/misc/cgdisk-sector1.jpg
<daftykins> and "FF" in 0x1FE and "AA" in 0x1FF
<TJ-> 55, not FF
<TJ-> 55 AA
<daftykins> oops yeah that was meant to be 55, not sure what my brain did.
<TJ-> the reason is they bit patterns help detect flipped bits: 01010101 10101010
<TJ-> hmmm, I've not done anything else
<daftykins> perhaps i need to reconnect? cached reads maybe?
<TJ-> no
<TJ-> it looks like the disk is presenting 1024 byte sectors
<daftykins> i think both of these are advanced format
<daftykins> oh cgdisk's output differed btw
<TJ-> the reason for saying that is that the first actual partition-table entry starts in the first sector following the header, and the header sector must be all-zeros from its end (its 92 bytes long) to the end of the sector. In the image here its all zeros until 0x600
<daftykins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/13222007/
<TJ-> the primary table seems only to use 20 sectors, because 0x2800 looks to be partition/file-system/file data
<TJ-> I change 0x22 back to 0x02 and I see that too
<daftykins> weird that your edits did a different thing to mine
<TJ-> tha value is the starting usable sector (34 decimal, 0x22 ) so if the header is shorter maybe it should be a smaller number
<TJ-> so try making the original 0x02 0x16 instead of 0x22
<daftykins> same output as the above pastebin, from cgdisk
<TJ-> it could also be affected by my loop device using 512 byte sectors, and your using advanced format that looks to be 1KB sectors, in which case the number would be  decimal 10, 0x0A
<TJ-> however, that doesn't explain why I don't get the CRC32 error when using 0x22 and you do, since the CRC's are the same
<TJ-> what are the 4 bytes starting from 0x210 ?
<daftykins> should i change the 0x228 "16" to anything else yet?
<TJ-> I have 00000210   92 BC A5 63
<TJ-> no, lets figure out if we have differences first.
<daftykins> yep that matches
<TJ-> right, that's the CRC32 of the header itself
<TJ-> there's another CRC32 at 0x58 (0x258) of the partitions themselves, and I think that is the one that might be hiting you
<daftykins> 36 78 8D B0 is there
<TJ-> I do a verify with cgdisk:
<TJ->  cgdisk /dev/loop1
<TJ-> No problems found. 1981 free sectors (990.5 KiB) available in 1
<TJ-> segments, the largest of which is 1981 (990.5 KiB) in size.
<TJ-> that's with 0x228 = 0x22
<TJ-> 00000250   01 00 00 00 80 00 00 00  36 78 8D B0
<daftykins> yep, same :S
<TJ-> very strange! I can understand you seeing a problem with the backup table
<TJ-> just check sgdisk reports the same as cgdisk (its the same back-end)
<TJ-> "sgdisk --verify /dev/sdX"
<daftykins> yep - with 16 in place at 0x228 still
<TJ-> put 0x22 there and try again
<TJ-> here's additional stuff I see: http://paste.ubuntu.com/13222375/
<daftykins> no change, both still with a bad CRC
<TJ-> hmmm, makes no sense. Try doing the same changes and tests on (a copy of) that file you sent me.
<TJ-> it seems like when addressing the hardware something to do with translation is changing things
<daftykins> will i need to use loop mounting?
<TJ-> yes "losetup /dev/loop1 /path/to/file"
<TJ-> then "sgdisk --verify /dev/loop1" and "hexedit -s /dev/loop1"
<daftykins> identical result to yours after making the two edits :(
<daftykins> sgdisk reads it fine
<TJ-> so it's something to do with the advanced format disk
<TJ-> This is where GPT breaks, so its interesting
<daftykins> i wonder if the xbox has any preference between AF or non
<daftykins> you'd have thought not, because it's bound to encounter both these days
<TJ-> the header is supposed to be in LBA1 of the disk. So depending on the sector size of the disk that could be 512, 1024, or 4096 bytes into the disk. This image has it at 512 bytes, which suggests the original controller uses 512 byte logical sectors. If Linux is using a different logical sector size that might explain it
<daftykins> i'm used to seeing the physical and logical sector size in parted's output, but we're not going to see that without a readable GPT i guess
<daftykins> maybe i need to take this drive out of its' enclosure and put it directly into a Linux PC tomorrow - that might change something?
<TJ-> hmmm, not sure. What does this report?
<TJ-> sgdisk --print  /dev/sda
<TJ-> Disk /dev/sda: 976773168 sectors, 465.8 GiB
<TJ-> Logical sector size: 512 bytes
<TJ-> well, change /dev/sda obviously, for the real sdX of the disk
<TJ-> see what the Logical sector size reports
<daftykins> 512 bytes
<TJ-> ok, not that either!
<daftykins> i'll need to pop it out to double check if it was an AF drive
<daftykins> yep definitely has the AF logo
<TJ-> what does "cat /sys/block/<sdX>/device/model" report?
<daftykins> FE2005 - that'll be the model of the inateck enclosure i bought that it's in right now
<daftykins> it uses a jmicron UASP capable USB 3.0 controller
<TJ-> OK, so maybe its the translation causing the issue
<TJ-> Despite the warning, I wonder if the disk will be 'seen' if you return it to the xbox
 * daftykins pops it downstairs
<daftykins> it noticed it this time, but it offered to format it instead of just use it
<daftykins> so even it knows something is wrong
<daftykins> perhaps all this work has been invalidated by the Windows program i ran first :(
<daftykins> but i did tell it to switch it back, so any process should have been reversed
<TJ-> you put in a new disk earlier, and it formatted it? maybe we should look at the header that created?
<daftykins> sure
<daftykins> did you happen to see the second 1MB image i posted? http://techblo.gg/stuff/dd_image2
<daftykins> that's the working one
<TJ-> i must have missed it, let me look
<daftykins> that one is also advanced format, *but* used the other bridge chip to access it
<TJ-> changing the MBR signature to 55 AA fixes that one, it just complains about missing baclkup GPT.
<TJ-> 0x226 = 0x04
<daftykins> parted was able to see the NTFS partition on that one as-is
<daftykins> but tools wouldn't mount it, naturally
<daftykins> i guess the kernel reads the primary only
<TJ-> these are weird; Trust MS to be non-standard
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> well i think they want to stop people readily reading and copying installed content
<TJ-> this is your 2nd, good, disk image: http://paste.ubuntu.com/13222960/
<daftykins> hmm
<TJ-> hexedit shows that Parition GUID at 0x600 (it's byte-reversed as little-endian)
<TJ-> notce "First sector: 4"
<daftykins> mmhmm
<TJ-> so the GPT header is very minimal, not storing the usual 128 entries (34 sectors)
<daftykins> i could read the first disk again with the same bridge chip, see if it was a quirk?
<TJ-> so that explains something about the CRC32 / first LBA 0x02/0x22 changes. That makes me think that the 0x228 on the faulty disk should be 0x04
<daftykins> valid backup! :D
<TJ-> did you fix it?
<daftykins> that's weird, cgdisk still errors to both tables
<daftykins> sgdisk started to regenerate the main header from the backup
<daftykins> maybe i should go try the xbox again
<daftykins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/13223057
<daftykins> oh it doesn't spot the microsoft basic data part, so maybe it's not happy still
<TJ-> i just figured out using sgdisk here re-write the GPT header without warning when using --verify, so BE CAREFUL
<daftykins> should i run sgdisk on the disk with --verify?
<daftykins> your pastebin was very different, stating "First sector: 4 (at 2.0 KiB)" whilst mine "First usable sector is 2,"
<TJ-> right, LBA '2' suggests the logical sector size is 1024
<TJ-> I'm running 'sgdisk' always with --pretend (-P) so it only does changes in-memory
<daftykins> ah har
<daftykins> i gave it another check on the xbox, naturally it tried to offer to format it again
<daftykins>  -!- daftykins changed the topic of #ubuntu-love to: What is love? Baby don't hurt me... don't hurt me... no
<daftykins>           more.
<daftykins> curious channel :)
<wileee> sounds more like #ubuntu-tweens
<wileee> ;)
<daftykins> :D
<wileee> where for where art though ubuntu mod
<wileee> thou*
<daftykins> TJ-: crikey look at the time :S i think this one deserves a nights sleep
 * daftykins wonders if TJ- has been dragged away by the hounds
<TJ-> yeah
<TJ-> I just tried testdisk; even it can't deal with the non-standard GPT header with only 1 partition entry it assumes 34 sectors
<daftykins> ouch!
<daftykins> well, i could just give up and wipe it i guess
<TJ-> this reminds me of all the things that made me walk away from Microsoft software
<TJ-> You could try using testdisk to scan the disk and suggest a partition table for use on Linux at least
<daftykins> the good news is the xbox gets a new OS on Thursday, so maybe it'll be all change :D
<TJ-> then you could backup files to another device, then let the xbox reformat it correctly, change those signature bytes so Linux can see it, and copy the files back
<daftykins> hmm that could work!
<daftykins> i think that'll have to be a task for tomorrow though
<TJ-> You don't need the partition table if you mount the filesystem directly using "losetup --offset
<TJ-> "losetup --offset 2048 /dev/loop5 /dev/sdX" then "blkid /dev/loop5" might reveal an NTFS file-system
 * daftykins quickly boots back up
<TJ-> I don't have enough of the data here to test that correctly. testdisk cold also discover the NTFS file-system
<TJ-> This all assumes the file-system/header/metadata isn't somehow 'changed' like the GPT
<daftykins> i could try emailing the guy that wrote the program that was meant to unlock it
<TJ-> there's certainly an NTFS header starting at 2048 (0x800)
<TJ-> might be a good idea, and indicate it somehow broke it
<daftykins> ok i ran the losetup, weirdly parted does nothing with the device
<TJ-> no, it's a pure file-system now, no PT
<TJ-> do "blkid /dev/loop5"
<daftykins> oh wow that's got the correct name i gave it on the xbox :)
<TJ-> we're trying to side-step the PT and work on the file-system directly
<daftykins> yep ntfs spotted
<TJ-> right: "mkdir -p /mnt/xbox; mount /dev/loop5 /mnt/xbox"
<daftykins> yep content successfully visible!
<daftykins> :D
<TJ-> YAY!
<daftykins> so perhaps as you said, backup the disk... let the xbox convert it... then compare the headers at the start and end of the disk?
<TJ-> OK, so you can backup correctly now, and then let the Xbox re-format te device, bring it back to Linux, id where the file-system is again, losetup+mount that empty new FS and copy the files back
<TJ-> I think the trick now is to IGNORE the partition table and work on the file-system(s) directly
<daftykins> ah yes, that'd be a lot less work
<TJ-> no point fighting it when the PT is not needed to work with the files
<daftykins> this info is highly useful to point out to xbox owners how to access the data direct
<TJ-> I've been doing this stuff for so long I generally do avoid PTs, but for some reason with only having these disk images from the 1st 1MB I got fixated on trying to correct the PT
<daftykins> hehe :D perhaps i should've offered SSH access early on :>
<TJ-> I could write a simple C program for you that does that
<daftykins> would that only be for use on a Linux host?
<TJ-> It'd be source code, so potentially usable on any POSIX host.
<TJ-> it would't work on Windows; but I was on about being able to natively mount an XBox disk on Linux without having to fiddle with it
<daftykins> ah har, could be pretty handy - though i'm certainly not adverse to the losetup method
<daftykins> ouch 227GB i've got on there :D
<TJ-> the thing is, to do that, you've got to identify the correct offset, and that could change
<daftykins> mmm, i wonder if they'd be that clever
<TJ-> I mean due to advanced format disks vs 'traditional' - sector sizes make translation a requirement to get it correct for all drives
<daftykins> i think there'd definitely be many folks that would appreciate a tool like that :)
<daftykins> i think it's our bedtime for sure though :D
<TJ-> I also, thinking about it, think the MS programmers got their GPT implementation wrong! Those offsets at 0x28 and 0x48 should be Logical Block Address offsets, whatever the LBA sector size is, but I *think* the programmers have assumed an LBA is ALWAYS 512 bytes
<TJ-> That's explain why the numbers didn't match the geometry
<daftykins> oooh this is interesting, remember that 'nonic' string that showed up? there's a file on this FS called 'LastConsole' that contains a few characters then 'nonic'
<daftykins> hehehe, so could be some other values to try?
<TJ-> nonic is actually part of the DISK GUID in the GPT header
<daftykins> ooh
<TJ-> at offset 0x38 to 0x47
<daftykins> hehe i've not got the space on this laptop to copy the content over either
<TJ-> Well, at least you have access to it. Worry about that tomorrow
<TJ-> (later today!)
<daftykins> indeed :D
<daftykins> big games these days, just one is 55GB
<TJ-> most of it being texture data
<daftykins> mmm
<daftykins> well thanks muchly for that sir, it is hugely appreciated :)
<TJ-> you're welcome
<daftykins> very interesting seeing MS' methods reverse engineered
<daftykins> ooh my SSD has enough space come to think of it ^_^
<TJ-> can't you connect the other, GOOD, empty Xbox drive to the PC too, and copy from one to the other?
<daftykins> could do, i was using xubuntu on a USB 2.0 only drive - so i've just booted ubuntu from a flash drive on my sandybridge laptop which has a USB 3.0 port
<daftykins> this should be extremely zippy :)
<TJ-> right, as long as the NTFS doesn't do something special too. I'd recommend writing just a few test files to the empty drive then testing it on the Xbox before going ahead with a full clone
<TJ-> that of course assumes the Xbox lets you browse the file-system
<daftykins> hmm i unmounted the mountpoint prior to shutdown but didn't disconnect the loop device, just issued a shutdown
<daftykins> the NTFS partition has this time mounted read only
<daftykins> oh think i used the wrong disk, haha
<TJ-> Careful!!
<TJ-> I've got to go clear spiders from a CCTV camera; they're setting off the motion detector continuously!
<daftykins> erk! ok :)
<daftykins> now there's a nice USB 3.0 UASP capable enclosure; 98.4MB/sec copying to my laptop's SSD from the 500GB laptop 2.5"
<daftykins> yay all copied, why did i stay up for that o0
<TJ-> :D
<daftykins> alrighty i could go make the xbox format this for use now, then copy it back on (same disk)
<daftykins> or i could just sleep since it's 4am >8\
<TJ-> I forgot to refit the back-plate in the freezer earlier, because still testing the hot-wire, and just realised that stops the fan from being able to force the air up into the fridge! So, waiting up a bit longer to ensure the fridge cools :)
<TJ-> yeah, I'm thinking of staying up all day, get ultra-tired and have a decent early night
<daftykins> i only made it 'til 4am the last time XD
<daftykins> er 4pm
<TJ-> i generally find if I started flagging, go for a run and a shower after wakes me up
<daftykins> TJ-: what would be interesting to see now from the formatted drive?
<daftykins> another 1MB dd grab?
<daftykins> same 2048 offset works :)
<daftykins> ouch far slower write speed naturally
<daftykins> 2hrs :(
<TJ-> I suspect the header of the formatted drive will be the same as the 'spare' you used earlier.
<daftykins> lets give it a go!
<daftykins> could i just diff the two files?
<TJ-> I've been getting annoyed by deficiencies in the GPT tooling we have for some time; I think I'm going to write a tool that can deal with this kind of stuff
<TJ-> No, CRCs and drive GUID will be different
<TJ-> you have to compare field-to-field
<daftykins> yee-ouch! so no point me showing you this one? :)
<TJ-> being able to tell a GPT tool only-use primary/backup table; ignore CRC errors, etc, etc
<TJ-> Not really, no, I've got the idea of what is going on there.
<daftykins> ouch it's gone down to 23MB/sec write :(
<daftykins> 3hrs it wants now to write that 243GB!
<TJ-> I've not had many drives with GPT have serious errors so far, so not had to hack too much.
<wileee> you're feeling sleepy
<daftykins> how did you know :o
<wileee> ;)
<TJ-> that's still a good transfer rate
<TJ-> you're just too spoilt!
<daftykins> hehehe
<TJ-> serves you right for buying such large games :D
<daftykins> yeah i love my SSDs, gigabit LAN and so forth
<TJ-> I wish there was a lappy that has a fibre port not copper
<daftykins> they're quite annoying with the "Xbox One"; it has an internal mechanical 500GB which they don't let you upgrade =|
<daftykins> these USB 3.0 enclosures are the only way to add storage
<daftykins> i hope there's nothing unique in these files...
<daftykins> i think nautilus really sucks for file copy because it's filled the RAM, i see 20% CPU usage on a dual core 2nd gen i5 from mount.ntfs and 14% CPU from usb-storage
<TJ-> it uses as much free space as possible to cache
<TJ-> same as us manually using 'dd bs=1G ...'
<TJ-> I've just tried booting this embedded system with plopkexec from a USB FDD. syslinux boots, plop starts then crashes/hangs the PC with the keyboard lights flashing!
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> again
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/steam-machine-lunch-sale-brings-huge-discounts-for-45-steamos-and-linux-games-496007.shtml
<lordievader> Good morning.
<lotus|xenial> good morning guys
<EriC^^> morning lotus|xenial
<lotus|xenial> hey EriC^^
<lotus|xenial> EriC^^: hows the movienight been :p
<EriC^^> good good
<lotus|xenial> :p
<lordievader> Puppet apply --noop is quite nice :D
<lotus|xenial> afternoon cfhowlett and Ben64
<Ben64> hello
<cfhowlett> lotus|xenial, greetings
<lotus|xenial> once upon a time there was a penguin...
<cfhowlett> keep it clean!
<lotus|xenial> haha
<lotus|xenial> his name was tux and loved downhill snowraces...
<cfhowlett> ... his best friend was gnu
<lotus|xenial> hahaha
<lotus|xenial> cfhowlett: i think we ivented a new type of bedtime storybooks here we can earn big $$$
<lotus|xenial> !find nvidia-cuda
<ubot5> Found: boinc-nvidia-cuda, nvidia-cuda-dev, nvidia-cuda-doc, nvidia-cuda-gdb, nvidia-cuda-toolkit
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<lotus|xenial> hi pauljw :p
<pauljw> brb
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<lotus|xenial> hey BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> Hi lotus|xenial
<lotus|xenial> BluesKaj: all working fine here on xenial
<BluesKaj> good to hear lotus|xenial, had a few graphics glitches yesterday after a small upgrade , but all seems to be fine now on Xenial
<lotus|xenial> BluesKaj: didnt you say, you went back to trusty yesterday?
<BluesKaj> and plsama 5.4.2
<BluesKaj> I do so occasionally when I get fed up
<lotus|xenial> ok
<BluesKaj> I have it on another partition
<lotus|xenial> ah ic
<lotus|xenial> movietime
<lotus|xenial> cheers guys
<daftykins> TJ-: o/ huzzah at a working xbox HDD today :) the xbox looked content over before launching it with a displayed message of "hangon, we're just checking..." then all worked just fine \o/
<OerHeks> jippy
<daftykins> many thanks for that time once again :) hope it wasn't what ruined your sleep schedule once again!
<TJ-> daftykins: Thank goodness!
<TJ-> haha no, I've had a 'fun' afternoon reverse-engineering a fridge/freezer microcontroller :)
<daftykins> ah was that one or two components not enough to sort it out?
<wileee> TJ-, Let me know if you get a thaw on those steaks. ;)
<daftykins> haha i'm with wileee on this one - we're ready and waiting if the apple pie needs to be taken care of
<daftykins> for the sake of hygiene y'know
<wileee> ohh yeah mmmm the apple pies
<TJ-> daftykins: looks like there's some SMD resistors that connect the MC output ports to the triacs, and at least 1 is showing 49K instead of 390 Ohms
<daftykins> ooh, i sense someone has had their Sherlock hat on
<TJ-> I left a freezer box on the floor full of pies and turned round to find Pepper licking the ice off :)
<TJ-> daftykins: so I may have fried some of the outputs of the MC, worst-case.
<TJ-> daftykins: right now it only looks like the evaporator fan control is not operating correctly, but it could be affecting the 2 heaters too. Hard to get it into a test mode on the bench
<wileee> heh, dogs and cats gotta watch em, I have an 18 lb tom with razor claws
<TJ-> I've hot-wired the fan though, so its working properly in keeping the fridge supplied with cold air
<TJ-> wileee: Ouch!
<wileee> my boss at a laundromat is a journeyman electrician, he fixes all of them, some have very simple circut board as well I think
<daftykins> TJ-: i take it with white goods, the circuit diagrams aren't exactly freely shared by the manufacturers, even if a model is discontinued? :)
<TJ-> Correct, they're not. I have the service manual but there's no PCB circuit diagram, only wiring
<TJ-> But I can reverse it from the PCB, it's not complicated
<TJ-> I held the hot air nozzle a little too long in one place at 400C earlier... and it pinged some solder spots around the room. Thought a component had blown again :D
<TJ-> I think I'm going to hibernate for 3 months... until this unlucky streak is over
<wileee> you're smart enough to do it and recognize mistakes, you would be whom I hire if needed, and trust
 * TJ- inspects the trail of 'spares' and grins :D
<wileee> lol
<TJ-> well, on the plus side I did repair the blown SSD so it's not all bad. Just need to not blow things up in the first place!
<wileee> I've had a SSD lockup a couple of times was a wait time is all with it pulled out and put in a container and powered up for a auto check, lucky to have found that info in my case.
<daftykins> sometimes you get quirky cables or SSD firmwares i find
<wileee> https://crucial.i.lithium.com/t5/Crucial-SSDs/Why-did-my-SSD-quot-disappear-quot-from-my-system/ta-p/65215       might be common knowledge not sure really
<wileee> the power cycle was what I did out of the computer
<wileee> In the end I rarely ask for help, I'm like some who come here, I'm in a hurry to fix and here to proud to ask, lol.
<daftykins> :D
<wileee> your guys help has always been a great place to lurk and learn I will say though, the channel provides a never ending slam on issues so common you can't forget the fixs at times.
<TJ-> i've been trying to debug why plopkexec locks up this embedded system as soon as it tries to draw its screen. Tried to build it from source with additional debugging, but the damned kernel image comes out about 3.5MB instead of 1.3M so it won't fit on the floppy
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-11-12
<OerHeks> I have no question, is it oke to ask a non-question?
<OerHeks> *hips*
<daftykins> that one needed euthanising ;)
<wileee> ahh, nothing like a mod ban for real satisfaction
<wileee> a lobotomy
<wileee> err maybe that was the cause, we never know
<Bashing-om> some just do not take a gentle hint .
<wileee> the freaks come out at night somewhere
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i can't believe Mozilla are taking tab groups out of Firefox :(
<daftykins> it'll be some time yet, v45... but that's still sad
<wileee> I use speed dial, never checked ff
<wileee> less addons the better however
<daftykins> nn folks! :)
<OerHeks> :-)
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Latrodectus> good morning to you
<lotuspsychje> hey Latrodectus
<wileee> morning
<lotuspsychje> morning wileee :p
<wileee> ;)
<wileee> mothership says no on a perfect world, takes all the fun out
 * wileee adjust the tinfoil beret 
 * lotuspsychje looks to the sky for aliens
<Latrodectus> why look to the skys for aliens when you can just look in the mirror...
<Latrodectus> http://www.wired.com/2015/11/cia-email-hackers-return-with-major-law-enforcement-breach/ lol
<lotuspsychje> good noon to all
<cfhowlett> evening ...
<lotuspsychje> hey cfhowlett how are you doing today
<cfhowlett> another day at the races and I'm tired of the upskirt view of the rat in front ...
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: what kind of races going on?
<cfhowlett> rat races!  they don't have those where you live/?
<lotuspsychje> no we dont lol
<lotuspsychje> we have horses here, but not so popular
<lotuspsychje> car/motorcycle races we have
<lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: did you ever win $$$ with the rats?
<cfhowlett> nah.  in the rat race, you're lucky if you get your customary hourly wage on time.
<lotuspsychje> :p
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: man i downloaded a movie from http://torrentsmovies.net
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: lets not do that here
<EriC^^> wth it asks for a password
<lotuspsychje> pm
<EriC^^> ok
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> 'Morning
<BluesKaj> hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> bbl dinnertime
<daftykins> hey all \o
<lotuspsychje> hey daftykins
<TJ-> afternoon :)
<daftykins> new OS for my xbox and new build of windows 10 for official release today :O
<daftykins> i trust upgrades for a console as much as i do a PC, so i'll be letting it install then performing a factory reset :D
<TJ-> which reinstalls the original OS :D
<daftykins> "welcome to XP"
<daftykins> noooooo
<lotuspsychje> lol
<daftykins> one thing i have done is left that game install HDD disconnected ;)
<TJ-> good plan Sherlock
<TJ-> After last time you don't need to be messing about
<lotuspsychje> bbl shop
<TJ-> I'm trying get hold of a replacement for the ancient M34510E8 MCU so I can copy the code from the old one and test it on the workbench, and maybe improve the program a bit. Might have to invest in a Linux freezer
<TJ-> I think I could just swap in an Arduino or RasPi actually :)
<daftykins> :D
<TJ-> I'm reverse-engineering the file format for the Windows InstallShield .Z files right now, so I can extract some ancient emulator/programmer tooling from Renesys for the range of MCUs it belongs to
<daftykins> hehe, well if you need someone to quickly run something on Windows to pinch the files out of, i'd be happy to :)
<TJ-> Well, all the controller had to do is read 3 thermistors, switch 4 mains outputs (condensor, evaporator fan, defrost heaters, read 4 GPIO buttons and write to an LCD display
<TJ-> Oh, I could do it with wine, but the installer wants a licence acceptence and I don't want to accept the terms - I just need the spec for this MCU :)
<TJ-> I enjoy reverse-engineering file formats anyhow; not done one in ages
<daftykins> :D
<TJ-> I've just finished decoding the headers and writing a program to display them cleanly so I can deduce the next layer
<daftykins> that's dedication! i'd have whipped up a disposable VM ;)
<TJ-> The Linux tools don't know how to read the format, but the magic is known, so as its pretty trivial I may as well write a library for it
<Guest74872> hi, please help, career wise how ubuntu helpful over windows ?
<TJ-> Linux implies you're able to think for yourself :)
<Guest74872> TJ-: what does that mean
<Guest74872> TJ-: i dont to be a end user on windows/ubuntu, i want to be developer or programmer and make a career, so does everyone here
<Guest74872> kindly help, currently direction less, i knew it is very basic question, most of the time discussed , u see we are new audience here now, we missed that discuss that out bad luck
<daftykins> i take it 'here' isn't this channel, because i don't want to be a dev.
<Guest74872> do so there are documentation or archive of such discussion
<daftykins> who are 'we' ? i have no idea what you mean.
<Guest74872> we means we all
<daftykins> also what language do you speak? you're quite hard to follow
<Guest74872> we not only use but we further develop
<daftykins> we are legion.
<Guest74872> career wise, apart from unix admin, what we could be ? please tell me
<daftykins> i think you'd be better off with #ubuntu-offtopic
<Guest74872> dear from #ubuntu told  to go #ubuntu-discuss and now to #ubuntu-offtopic
<Guest74872> hope i will get help
<daftykins> well you see, the topic is discussion of ubuntu
<TJ-> Guest74872: if you want to be a developer find an area of Ubuntu you're interested in, pull in the source code, and explore.
<TJ-> Guest74872: learn about and practice with the tools that Ubuntu/Linux provides you. Learn about how a Linux system is built and its file-system organised. Learn about how the Linux kernel presents devices and services to userspace. The possibilities are endless
<Guest74872> TJ-: scripting like  bash, ksh, awt , sed are my secondary skills
<Guest74872> not full time job
<Guest74872> i am oracle guy, full time on plsql
<Guest74872> i schedule tasks under unix
<Guest74872> secondary skillset is not my full time job
<TJ-> Guest74872: the easiest way to learn is pick a subject are you're interested in and develop code for that
<Guest74872> can scripting be made full time job ?
<TJ-> no, it's a part of general system administration
<Guest74872> in general databased are installed on servers, servers on mostly unix, unix will  system admin and databases will database admin
<Guest74872> it above situation,   how many servers do company have, so how many system admins and how many database admin (dba)
<Guest74872> hardly 5 servers if so, then 4-5 system admin and 4-5 dbas ...........where do programmers or developers fit and what work they do is my question
<TJ-> programmers and write and package the code the sys/dbs-admins use
<TJ-> s/programmers and/programmers and developers/
<Guest74872> what are chances of application programmer (business logic ) under unix rather than system programmer ( developing tools, utils ...)
<TJ-> there are many more application programmers than system programmers
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: what kind of games you play on xbox?
<daftykins> mmm a lot really, Halo... co-op zombie survival thing with two local friends, racing games... platformers... puzzle games :D
<lotuspsychje> nice
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: first person shooters?
<daftykins> yeah sometimes
<daftykins> i just grabbed this latest Halo 5 the other day
<daftykins> this new OS is so much faster on this console now, i'm letting it download an older xbox360 game to test out the PPC emulation now :)
<lotuspsychje> grabbed from the store yeah :p
<daftykins> yep, usually i order online but i spent the extra Â£6 this time to support a local shop
<lotuspsychje> nice
<daftykins> Â£33.33 delivered from amazon UK, or Â£39.99 locally :D
<daftykins> there's a new Tomb Raider out tomorrow that looks good, too
<lotuspsychje> ohhhh lara rrrr
<daftykins> haha
<lotuspsychje> :p
<daftykins> i should probably focus more on work than games :P
 * lotuspsychje throws lara in OerHeks's neck
<daftykins> reminds me, i need to quote for a patch panel, switch and cabling now
<OerHeks> oh no, now the nerds are going after me
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> there are nerds here??
<daftykins> XD
<TJ-> I don't know how you guys find time for games !
<lotuspsychje> TJ-:  we all have multiple screens like your layout :p
<TJ-> but how do you find *time* to play?
<daftykins> TJ-: by not really having a proper day job sadly :)
<lotuspsychje> !life | TJ-
<ubot5> TJ-: life is something very few people know about in this channel - and anyway, it's probably offtopic, perhaps you want to try #ubuntu-offtopic
<TJ-> I can understand if they were casual games, but those that require hours of play to get anywhere...!
<daftykins> hehe
<TJ-> life is offtopic - ubottu can eat my butt!
<daftykins> it's quite a neat way to keep up with some friends who live in England, too
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: the more advanced gamers run through levels faster :p
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: my partner plays games so I know - he has no time for life!
<lotuspsychje> depends wich game of course
<TJ-> bloody WoW!
<lotuspsychje> like WOW
<lotuspsychje> i dont understand those big $$$ spend time-eating games
<TJ-> I can about find time to play Freecell a couple of times a week :)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<TJ-> I've just had a lot more fun trying to figure out why my structure definition for this file-format I'm reverse-engineering was 'stepping' over some bytes, making the following fields pick up the wrong data... then I realised I hadn't told te compiler to 'pack' the structure so 16-bit values were being aligned to 32-bits, shifting everything after along by 2 bytes
<daftykins> ah see i can't tolerate those big ones that are life and soul sucking :)
 * lotuspsychje facepalms
<daftykins> puka is really annoying me
<TJ-> right, well, now more life calls ... dinner to make. beefburger 'n chips, mmmm
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: i think its pikachu's brother lol
<lotuspsychje> he came for revenge
<daftykins> XD
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: bon apetit mate
<OerHeks> it is, poeka/pikashoe
<TJ-> you too.. don't go breaking any more mobos ... my TODO list is TOOLONG
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: i have another bug for you next haha
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: on the same system!
 * TJ- runs faster than a Husky being chased by a sled
<lotuspsychje> hahaha
<daftykins> XD
<lotuspsychje> to comfort you, it has been chasing me for all ubuntu versions
 * OerHeks runs faster than a chihuahua after a pittbull
<TJ-> oh - took them out for a very long road walk this morning... they're stiff and have been laid out all day since
<OerHeks> Drabber is a killer, you know
<TJ-> pftt - they can't keep up with me :)
 * daftykins wonders if TJ- cycles with them
<lotuspsychje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-ati/+bug/1513801
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1513801 in xserver-xorg-video-ati (Ubuntu) "Scrambled screen and mouse pointer on first boot" [Undecided,New]
<TJ-> Over summer I rode whilst Pepper ran but now its wet its hard to do around the fields, ground is soft and bumpy and I get sprayed with mud and wet
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: that'll be due to the GPU not being correctly initialised. could be flaky GPU memory that needs literally warming up
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: yeah could be another mobo motor issue :p
<lotuspsychje> bloody ol abit :p
<daftykins> crikey i've not had an Abit for years
<daftykins> i just to love those but then all their good engineers/designers got poached by Asus i think
<daftykins> so Asus are my new love :>
<lotuspsychje> pretty stable mobo, but hard to config
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: yeah that link you pasted the other day rrrr
<lotuspsychje> sexy mobo
<lotuspsychje> in that case you showed / samsong 950 ssd
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i've decided to wait and see on that front, as i just know i'd spend the money and still just be here on IRC ;)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<daftykins> be a lot of fun to do a brand new build though
<lotuspsychje> yeah my vision is, as long as the old hardware still working
<lotuspsychje> plugged in ssd's everywhere and were good for years again
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> well, my core 2 quad desktop is 8 years old this Christmas.
<daftykins> i know that everything new is now 4 times faster, based on benchmarks
<lotuspsychje> if its fast enough for us
<lotuspsychje> i find ubuntu on older machines rocknroll
<lotuspsychje> second life ecologic
<daftykins> it's developed a few quirks with age too, i've dealt with it for a long time but eventually i'll just want something totally reliable
<daftykins> mind you, i don't 100% fancy being an early adopter with those NVMe Samsung SSDs... there might be some kinks to work out for Q1'16 :)
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> im gonna stick with 850 pro for now
<daftykins> plus, and i know you're not keen on this side of the world... but you have to use samsung's own NVMe driver under Windows right now as Microsoft's is a bit too new
<daftykins> be nice if that were resolved so it didn't need to be done on clean installs
<lotuspsychje> yeah herd that linux support is yet to come
<daftykins> reminds me of floppy RAID drivers in server 2003 *shudder*
<lotuspsychje> brrrr
<daftykins> such a brave new world this, that 360 game just finished downloading -> went to run it, "700MB update"
<lotuspsychje> oO
<lotuspsychje> a bit like its host: 'winblows'
<lotuspsychje> update all night lol
<daftykins> now now, that's a rather youthful attitude :P
<lotuspsychje> hehe
<daftykins> actually the new win10 was a 3GB download today ;)
<daftykins> painful, but not far off seeing all the kernels mount up in ubuntu...
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: did you read what they will do with 7 and 8
<lotuspsychje> in one year they wont sell it anymore
<lotuspsychje> and force everyone to 10
<daftykins> yep, but that happens when every release goes out of mainstream support
<daftykins> it's no different than an ubuntu release going EOL
<lotuspsychje> but 8 is brand new
<daftykins> it also sucked :) standard rule, every other release is terrible
<lotuspsychje> they all suck lol
<daftykins> i was sat to see that Vista is still inside extended support until April 2017 or something
<daftykins> i see problems with all OSs :)
<daftykins> PaulW2U_: o/
<lotuspsychje> ok movienight
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: laterz mate
<daftykins> o/
<lotuspsychje> :p
 * TJ- returns belatedly
<TJ-> daftykins: At least with Linux you have the choice to install an old release, and patch it yourself :)
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> i can't think when i'd ever choose that mind you - but then i'm always thinking from the focus of my clients, not my own usage directly
<daftykins> just the folks i support
<MonkeyDust> !isitoutyet
<ubot5> It's out! Party in #ubuntu-release-party - download at http://ubuntu.com/download/
<OerHeks> out of what?
<MonkeyDust> OerHeks  i meant it jokingly, referring to 16.04
<OerHeks> i am on 15.04 :-D
<daftykins> :>
<wileee> insert pop reference to out here------>
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-11-13
<wileee> daftykins, may be sainthood there
<wileee> ;)
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> jokes on him, i have to sleep early 8D
<wileee> new user, big dreams, probably really young, heh, one here everyday lately, suppose I had some dream at one time
<daftykins> :D
<wileee> funny picture and story, grew up around this town, http://www.kgw.com/story/news/local/2015/11/12/4-masked-bandits-caught-newport-ore-art-gallery/75653184/
<TJ-> amazing! my reverse-engineered installshield archive decompressor works first time
 * wileee waits for the user with single install always wanting grub vs the no grub match
<wileee> heh, cool
<TJ-> I always get GRUB so I forget about how it can be invisible
<wileee> yeah me to
<wileee> it does a lot, I know maybe 1%
<wileee> I can read though if needed
<TJ-> With mine the LUKS pass-phrase or key-file device needs attaching
<wileee> ah, I've jsut been multibooted, limited computers so all on a couple.
<wileee> got my acer d250 mini as the backup, heh.
<TJ-> I dug out 2 notebooks I've had since 2002 this week; going to get them fired up again :)
<TJ-> made me realize how software devs have squandered memory and CPU cycles. Those used to perform better then, than many current PCs do with latest software
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<TJ-> morning, damn!
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: hey mate :p
<TJ-> I was supposed to go to bed before midnight
<lotuspsychje> doing overtime again
<TJ-> Programming is too adictive :)
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: do you program also?
<TJ-> That's how I started out, writing machine code and assembly language back in 1980 :)
<lotuspsychje> what languages
<TJ-> most over that time
<lotuspsychje> me and my brother fooled around with BASIC, but thats about it :p
<TJ-> I prefer close to the metal, so C and C++, but I've done some big Java systems.
<lotuspsychje> cool
<lotuspsychje> ICT is such wide spectrum plenty ways fro every talent
<lotuspsychje> morning OerHeks
<OerHeks> hi lotus
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-touch-ota-9-is-open-for-business-developers-can-start-pushing-fixes-496094.shtml
<lotuspsychje> the covergence is upon us :p
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: and one for you: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Kubuntu-New-RMs
<wileee> cleanup Isle 4
<wileee> ;)
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
<daftykins> hallo \o
<lotuspsychje> hey daftykins :p
<daftykins> what film did we see? :D
<lotuspsychje> 10 things i hate about you
<lotuspsychje> old college comedy
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/is-that-ubuntu-touch-or-ubuntu-desktop-the-answer-is-both-496123.shtml
<daftykins> :)
<lotuspsychje> they all ZZzzzZZ in #ubuntu
<daftykins> it is a strangely quiet day!
<daftykins> just ordered in a Â£160 IPS 2560x1440 27" HannsG display last night for someone
<lotuspsychje> nice
<daftykins> they also want to drive it from a really cheap laptop, so i've just spotted a basic looker... http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00Y0LWQAW ;)
<lotuspsychje> looking good
<daftykins> weird it only has one DIMM slot, so 8GB RAM max! D:
<lotuspsychje> can always add ssd later
<daftykins> indeedy
<daftykins> i saw a cheap HP on another site, to get RAM in you had to take the whole thing apart O_O
<lotuspsychje> yeah i had one the same to change a cmos battery
<lotuspsychje> even screen had to come off
<daftykins> >_<
<lotuspsychje> bbl
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<daftykins> heya \o
<daftykins> how do? :)
<pauljw> good daftykins thanks.  you?  :)
<daftykins> yep all good here ta :) just digging into a clients email issue
<pauljw> fun
<daftykins> EriC^^: o/
<daftykins> i always feel our 'customers' have such warped perceptions of what 'broken' 'doesn't work' and fix' mean
<EriC^^> yeah that's true
 * daftykins is an overthinker ;)
<EriC^^> i think you're pretty practical
<EriC^^> i've been learning a shit load of magic tricks
<ioria> hi. anyone knows where the ubuntu log of yestarday is ? i can't find here http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/11/12/
<daftykins> the 7th was missing the other day too, when OerHeks looked i think?
<daftykins> i reckon there's a coverup going on :D
<ioria> thanx
<EriC^^> lol
<OerHeks> Yes, last log was the 11-3 ?
<ioria> it misses from 3/11 to 12/11
<daftykins> well Eczan was a complete idiot
<TJ-> did I miss something :D
<daftykins> guy asked which kernel to pick during a server install, i said i wasn't sure of any time you're asked that during server installs... eventually he gets so worked up that i'm claiming he's 'lying' he leaves saying he'll get help elsewhere
<daftykins> all in his own head O_O
<TJ-> weird
<TJ-> 'purple screen' certainly sounds like the Plymouth splash screen
<TJ-> It's about time we started charging a 'frustration deposit' !
<daftykins> :D
<TJ-> it's true - some skin on the table usually makes people think first :)
<daftykins> "i have problems but you're not allowed to see... here's a darkened room, there are no lights... tell me what this object is"
<TJ-> oh ... and you can't touch it
<daftykins> so in other news i've gone into the business of extracting blood from stones
<daftykins> i have no idea what you do in situations where a system has somehow been using funky partitions the whole time :D
<TJ-> it may be corruption; it may even be misreporting somehow... I've simulated this by creating a large HBA on a disk *after* it was partitioned - and some PC manufacturers hide their Windows recovery images in an HBA
<TJ-> regardless of the partition, the ext* tools will read the metadata and superblock to tell us if the file-system instide matches any of the partition dimensions we can see or deduce
<daftykins> Vizio TVs were in the news recently for having a policy where they sell what you watch to marketing :) you have to opt out!
<TJ-> Doesn't surprise me; folks have allowed themselves to become the product by using all those 'free' web applications like Google, Facebook, et al
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> they can be pretty impressive though!
<daftykins> i'm starting to think it's spaghetti bolognese time
<TJ-> Already making it here :)
<daftykins> i tried something new and cooked two portions of mince at once, so tonight will just be heating up
<daftykins> that bellflower has one funky disk alright
<TJ-> I often make large stews that last 1/2 a week :)
<daftykins> ah, see i've been very hesitant toward this 'leftovers' approach
<daftykins> it's very alien to me
<TJ-> it's not leftovers, that implies scraps. It's efficient production!
<daftykins> true :>
<daftykins> looks like another one i didn't catch due to assuming their setup again!
<TJ-> It's the whole 'incomplete data' issue - in-person you pick up a lot of stuff simply by looking. With remote support you have no context at all, so you've got to specifically identify everything
<DosTuMai> If I make more, means I eat more. Not a good thing because I hate seeing food sit there.
<daftykins> heh
 * daftykins helps out with that
<TJ-> You need to learn self-control :)
<DosTuMai> Once cooked 3 days worth of food. Felt like it was a waste to leave it sitting there. Ate the lot.
<DosTuMai> OCD doesn't help with that. Food is for eating.
<DosTuMai> Main reason I like to stick with Gnome classic.
<daftykins> true, no food in that DE
<TJ-> ffs! bellflower! I'm off for dinner, can't take any more
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> me too, RUN whilst the going's good!
<Pici> OerHeks: fyi, ubottu doesn't do channel logs, thats ubuntulog's job.
<OerHeks> Pici, oh oke, we were missing some logs lately, today is running.
<Pici> yeah, I think it might have been a netsplit related problem
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-11-14
 * daftykins rolls his eyes at pwca
<TJ-> Amazing isn't it?
<daftykins> reisio is a right asshole
<TJ-> Just ignore him, totally. He has been argumentitive in several channels tonight I watch, and been told off in several
<TJ-> Ever since I saw how he behaves I deliberately don't respond to him
<daftykins> hmm
<TJ-> I've had in on ignore for many months at times; much calmer that way
<daftykins> he's like the me that takes it too far! :D
<daftykins> g'night all \o
<TJ-> night :)
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<TJ-> Arghhhh! you're here to haunt me and make me feel guilty!
<lotuspsychje> lol
<TJ-> I got caught up programming again
<lordievader> Good afternoon.
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<BluesKaj> hey pauljw
<pauljw> hey BluesKaj  :)
<MonkeyDust> i wonder, does anyone ever ask how to do something in windows, 'like it's done in linux'...
<OerHeks> offcourse MonkeyDust, and it should do 'exactly' the same
<OerHeks> no matter what :-P
<MonkeyDust> idd
<pauljw> heheh...
<Samsruti_Dash> hey
<Samsruti_Dash> i want to be a mentor for Google Code In 2015 ( Ubuntu)
<pauljw> brb
<OerHeks> pauljw come back!
<OerHeks> ow, never mind
<OerHeks> Bashing-om Bashing-om hi hi
<Bashing-om> OerHeks: Hey .. Away from keyboard, returned and system had shut down, logs do not say why . Anyway, I am back on and all looks good with my system .
<OerHeks> no overheating signals in a log?
<OerHeks> or a wobbly powercord that has been inserted/pulled too many times? then the 2 limbs would bend ..
 * OerHeks fixed many mystery-rebooting-computers with that
<Bashing-om> OerHeks: Yeah, overheating was my concern . but nope, not this time according to logs . Maybe as benign as the front panel reset button being hit ... anyway .. will run and see what results .
<MonkeyDust> Bashing-om  thermald and indicator-cpufreq saved my laptop from overheating
<Bashing-om> MonkeyDust: It is a thought I do consider. I have the box in a bad place, and must clean it on a regular basis .. and I am behind . Got to make a trip into town and replenish the air can supply .( bios is set and shutdown is in good shape )
<OerHeks> wait .. it is saturday ..
<MonkeyDust> time for a drink, in a local bar
 * OerHeks walks to the local fridge and grabs 2 monkeybeers
<pauljw> gotta run guys... later
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-11-15
<lotuspsychje> good (early) morning to all
<lotuspsychje> interesting: http://news.softpedia.com/news/debian-based-robolinux-8-2-lxde-linux-os-lets-you-run-windows-10-virus-free-496171.shtml
<lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: good morning mate
<lotuspsychje> support is pretty active cfhowlett but we have a volunteer est31 that i find a bit misinformed
<lotuspsychje> you see that guy before?
<OerHeks> he is on my ignore, a troll.
<lotuspsychje> ah tnx OerHeks but he's been 'helping' false info all night
<cfhowlett> I just entered, but I did get that vibe off him pretty quickly.
<cfhowlett> will continue to observe
<lotuspsychje> ok
<lotuspsychje> i saw wileee arguing with him too earlier
<lotuspsychje> si lets be warned
<lotuspsychje> so
<OerHeks> it is not a community minded person, i in team.
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: such fellas should not support then
<Bashing-om> Well ! I am surprised est31 / sruli .
 * cfhowlett wonders why anyone would seek medical health, especially pregnancy, in an irc channel ...
<OerHeks> not the #c++ channel i guess
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: howso?
<OerHeks> wait .. dr. phil !
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Honestly , I was of the opinion that est31 had his head in a dark place .
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: indeed
<cfhowlett> !ops ??
<daftykins> indeed :/
<cfhowlett> ok, we bein' trolled here or what???
<cfhowlett> yeah, I think troll mentality confirmed.  /ignore applied
<daftykins> wow.
<daftykins> just... wow.
<cfhowlett> I must have missed the ending.  "Screw this, I'm going back to windows!"???
<daftykins> apparently i'm a fed because i asked what he used a VPN for.
 * daftykins shakes his head
<daftykins> "this is officer kins, i need your IP right now"
<cfhowlett> so I take it he exited in a huff?
<daftykins> yeah :S proper rage quit
<daftykins> that one was DEFINITELY a teen
<cfhowlett> I always think of South Park when Cartman says "Screw you guys, I'm going home!"
<cfhowlett> and it takes everything in me to resist the urge to type that message in channel ...
<Bashing-om> Sad state of afffairs .. No fun .. I going to sleep it off . Gnight guys .
<daftykins> cfhowlett: :D
<TJ-> g'morning
<daftykins> heya
<daftykins> you just missed a doozy ;)
<daftykins> ok if i PM a text file link?
<TJ-> I'm so glad I was asleep! I've actually got my hours front-to-back at last :)
<TJ-> I'll have to start it; I have +g set
<daftykins> ah ok
<TJ-> Wow! Just did my first test of this InstallShield Z archive extractor I've written on some other archive files I've found listed on a file formats wiki and it extracts them flawlessly
<daftykins> excellent :D
<daftykins> now if that functionality could be folded into an archive manager that'd be amazing
<TJ-> Always good when the code works on something other than the test file
<TJ-> That's my aim; I'm turning this into a library + standalone front-end, so it can be called from an archiver
<daftykins> ah magic!
<TJ-> Which means I have to figure out the best API to enable support of the most popular archiving tools, and find out how they auto-discover libraries
<TJ-> It got me what I was after though - this 1990s MCU emulator's data file for the ancient MC34510E8SP I'm hacking :)
<daftykins> but only if you can escape volunteering for long enough! :D
<daftykins> i'm gonna head off to sleep, your shift :)
<daftykins> \o
<TJ-> g'night
<lordievader> Good morning
<lotuspsychje> good noon to all
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/debian-based-robolinux-8-2-lxde-linux-os-lets-you-run-windows-10-virus-free-496171.shtml
<lotuspsychje> that project looking pretty nice
<lotuspsychje> nice ideas integrated
<cfhowlett> trying to see the value added ...
<lotuspsychje> yeah i know we can run w10 on virtualbox too :p
<lotuspsychje> and tor browser
<lotuspsychje> but i like the default package allright
<TJ-> I'm not sure how they get the 'virus free' bit
<lotuspsychje> lol
<cfhowlett> yeah, that does seem to be a bit of a reach.
<TJ-> unless the windows installs are snapshots and always start from the installed image
<TJ-> in which case, good luck to all those Windows users wondering where their installed software disappeared to, after they shutdown the VM
<cfhowlett> though I admit I've never experienced a breach on my virtualbox windows.  Of course, I DO only turn it on what?  10 days each year?
<lotuspsychje> http://www.robolinux.org/
<lotuspsychje> website surely looks bit playmobile lol
<TJ-> "because Robolinux invented Stealth VM Software that runs on over 500 Linux Operating Systems, which keeps a protected clone of Windows and mirrors your data in a secure Linux partition you can restore within a few minutes in just two clicks!"
<TJ-> "invented" ... yeah right
<lotuspsychje> lol
<TJ-> "snapshots"
<cfhowlett> wait, they charge $$ for this?!!
<TJ-> well you've got those invention patent license fees :)
<cfhowlett> what a sweet, sweet racket.
<TJ-> For end-users who just want to get on it makes sense; someone has done a lot of work to make it work together seamlessly. When it looks easy someone spent a lot of time and effort on it
<cfhowlett> true.
<lotuspsychje> too much banners and videos on that site my god
<TJ-> Agreed; the web-site is very 1994
<lotuspsychje> skype support robolinux :p
<TJ-> anyone recommend a USB-based eprom programmer that supports 27C*
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: not me, maybe Ben64 knows or the ##hardware guys
<TJ-> Looks like the TLC866A has a decent Linux 'minipro' tool: https://github.com/vdudouyt/minipro
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<livingBEEF> Was packages.ubuntu.com always http only? For example startpage gives me links with https (which obviously doesn't work).
<pauljw> mornin
<BluesKaj> livingBEEF, which ubuntu?
<BluesKaj> 'morning  pauljw
<pauljw> :)
<livingBEEF> BluesKaj: not on ubuntu ATM, but that's not the point. The point is, that the web page "packages.ubuntu.com" can only do http and not https (unlike most other *.ubuntu.com webs). Firefox/wget/whatever just times out for me
<BluesKaj> odd I didn't have that problem with FF
<Bashing-om> Back on, much refreshed. Are we having fun now ?
<Latrodectus> i found the info for that upgrade bug, what should i do with it?
<OerHeks> BQ E5 #Ubuntu Phone in Russia, Will be launching on the 17th November!
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-11-14
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> hey ObrienDave
<ObrienDave> hiya, long time no see
<lotuspsychje> yeah how you been
<ObrienDave> good, thanks. busy at work and all that :)
<lotuspsychje> same here, lot of hours work : (
<ObrienDave> i see the same old questions in #u lol
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> ObrienDave: the beauty of ubuntu, you can always pickup where you left
<lotuspsychje> like a lifetime long soap hehe
<ObrienDave> never enough soap LOL
<lotuspsychje> fast breakfast before ducasse wakes up :p
<lotuspsychje> shhhh
<ducasse> too late :)
<lotuspsychje> ouchhh
<ducasse> still reading mail, so go and eat lotuspsychje :)
<lotuspsychje> bbl
<Bashing-om> All that she wrote, cause I can write no more - this session . G nite
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<daftykins> \o
<BluesKaj> hey daftykins
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> cor thrice in one day
<lotuspsychje> hehe
<lotuspsychje> was my day off
<daftykins> ah har
<lotuspsychje> all my usb's are done, formatted in ntfs
<daftykins> o0
<daftykins> why not a delightfully cross-platform FS? :)
<lotuspsychje> well alot of customers i know still use win boxes
<lotuspsychje> and the 4gig limit of fat32 i dont like
<lotuspsychje> they are black keyholder usb's of 8gig
<BluesKaj> trying out quassel irc client again...now im know why i don't like it
<lotuspsychje> hex to the rescue :p
<BluesKaj> i know why
<BluesKaj> nope, back to konversation
<lotuspsychje> lol
<daftykins> exFAT works just dandy though :>
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: does all usb drives support it?
<daftykins> don't need hardware support for a file system, as that's only logical access
<OerHeks> heya lotus :-D
<lotuspsychje> hey hey OerHeks
<OerHeks> and daftykins ofcourse
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: hows the seeding going?
<lotuspsychje> who won the battle?
<OerHeks> oh, stopped seeding a week ago, lubuntu and xubunto are in the top 3
<lotuspsychje> nicely
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i've seen some stuff i seed go at my new speed of 1.1MB/sec, it's ace :D
<lotuspsychje> lubuntu 16.04 is fantastic for sure
<lotuspsychje> !budgie
<BluesKaj> my findings are that 16.10 is more stable than 16,04 ...maybe it;s the KDE/plasma DE at fault in my case, not sure
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: alot of good things we here of 16.10 kernel
<lotuspsychje> *hear
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, yes, that's a possibility too
<BluesKaj> running 4.8.0-27-generic
<BluesKaj> anyway , it's time to rake more leaves ..BBL
<lotuspsychje> kk
<daftykins> hrmm gonna be April 2018 before i care again ;D
<nicomach1s> anyone used 32 bit *buntu lately?
<daftykins> what's up?
<nicomach1s> does it even exist still?
<daftykins> yep still alive
<nicomach1s> trying to install a VM on this new work PC so I can actually get some stuff done instead of using Windows all day, but I can't get to the BIOS to enable vt-d, so I have to use a 32-bit OS... as far as I can tell
<daftykins> is the host OS 32-bit?
<nicomach1s> no. 64 bit Windows 7
<daftykins> i always thought it could only virt the same arch on the guest
<daftykins> without the function, i mean
<nicomach1s> /Â¯_(ã)_/Â¯
<daftykins> so what's actually happening?
<nicomach1s> it just won't let me select a 64 bit option in vbox.
<nicomach1s> and wouldn't let me boot a 64 bit iso
<daftykins> is it just locked down by your workplace for the BIOS access bit?
<nicomach1s> I think the only issue I'd have with 32 bit is Chrome, because they stopped maintaining 32 bit, but I don't need Chrome for it. I can use the browser on the host OS
<nicomach1s> daftykins: yea. Haven't actually tried, but I'm almost sure that accessing the BIOS would get some sysadmin somewhere verrry upset with me.
<daftykins> i find it a bit shocking you can't just tame Windows to your liking :>
<daftykins> er well why don't you just ask for it to be switched on?
<nicomach1s> the people that make those decisions are very far away from where I am.
<daftykins> still, i think it better to pick up the phone and try before messing about too much
<daftykins> anywho yeah no VT-d is no doubt why it's 32-bit only
<daftykins> so i guess it's the other way around, can't do 64 on a 64
<nicomach1s> meh, I may call
<daftykins> i mean if the work you want to do is pretty intensive on resources, then it's going to be so much slower virting 32-bit
<nicomach1s> it's not. mostly just irssi. haha
<daftykins> wat
<nicomach1s> 99% of it's use will be just SSH'ing to my home PC
<daftykins> and KiTTY isn't good enough?
<nicomach1s> I'd rather just tunnel into my screen session. and then be able to access all the media and docs on that PC too.
<daftykins> right, with WinSCP
<daftykins> sure it's not exactly native when under Windows, but it's super duper easy to the point where running an entire other OS solely to get to things is a bit extreme
<daftykins> i mean, i'm typing from irssi right now from a Windows box - via SSH in KiTTY
<nicomach1s> yea but I don't know how to use windows. lol
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> i didn't wanna infer it but... ;)
<daftykins> it's handy to be able to get a few things done across each of the main OSs
<nicomach1s> I can get a few things done on Windows, but the command line is just... different.
<nicomach1s> I like my bash terminals.
<daftykins> well sure, but that's where PuTTY and KiTTY come in
<daftykins> i prefer the latter since it does URL parsing, so i can still click links in irssi here on Windows
<nicomach1s> like, right now I can't figure out how to safely remove my external HDD
<daftykins> little green icon in the system tray, you ideally want to go into the taskbar properties and disable any icon hiding in the tray
<nicomach1s> I click on it and nothing happens though. right or left click.
<daftykins> well, personal preference that bit
<daftykins> well it would come up with a list of devices that can be safely removed if any are available
<daftykins> if it doesn't present as one, e.g. like a phone over MTP, then it wouldn't be there
<daftykins> actually that might be a bad example - can't remember if the 5x comes up as safely removable when over MTP regardless
<nicomach1s> man I hate windows.
<daftykins> no, you hate being out of your depth :)
<nicomach1s> lol
<nicomach1s> is there a CLI way of doing this?
<nicomach1s> umount or something?
<daftykins> do you get any option on the context menu of this drive in the 'computer' view?
<daftykins> honestly not seen an external drive behave like this before, is it just USB 2.0 / 3.0 ?
<nicomach1s> It's 3.0
<daftykins> you could always remove the drive letter allocation from disk management, super+R -> diskmgmt.msc
<daftykins> that'd be as good as unmounting
<nicomach1s> and it shows it as E: in the My Computer view
<daftykins> so nothing on the context menu there huh?
<nicomach1s> it's weird because it looks like there's some ghost icons in the system tray: http://i.imgur.com7AKl3x.jpg
<daftykins> dead link even with the slash put in?
<Bashing-om> Meanwhile, the sage continues ? Bacckkkk after my bit of R&R .
<daftykins> wb sir! how are you today?
<nicomach1s> daftykins: sorry. http://i.imgur.com/7AFKl3x.jpg
<daftykins> nicomach1s: ah, probably more a symptom of being attached to a corporate domain
<daftykins> only time i've seen that it's been one or two - and either a broken program or they've disappeared on hover
<Bashing-om> daftykins: I am well, cuase I am here .. you ?
<daftykins> Bashing-om: :D excellent, yep i'm great! the guy just came to take all my donations so it is done at last \o/
<daftykins> i am several laptops, a desktop and many accessories lighter
<Bashing-om> A ha .. A better distribution network ! . Me I am a trash lord .. I can not forsee what I "might" pull out of the rust pile ( outside storage ).
<OerHeks> daftykins, good, i'll send you a fresh pile
<daftykins> D: nooooo
<lotuspsychje> * Rarrikins (~Rarrikins@gateway/tor-sasl/rarrikins) has joined your brother daftykins ?
<lotuspsychje> lol
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> nah i've just ex-communicated mine
<lotuspsychje> secretly spying on main
<lotuspsychje> bbl guys
<lotuspsychje> have a nice one
<Bashing-om> !info linux-image-generic xenial
<ubot5`> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.4.0.47.50 (xenial), package size 2 kB, installed size 12 kB
<nicomach1s> daftykins: I think I killed windows.
<nicomach1s> I had my External HDD plugged in when I rebooted and forgot it had a bootable iso on it on a small partition... so the PC tried to boot that. I hit the power button, and then unplugged the HDD. Now Windows is trying to do "Startup Repair" :(
<nicomach1s> ah, it's booting again.
<Bashing-om> nicomach1s: Had a similar experience yesterday with my daughter's laptop .. 5 hours later to get it restored - I do not do Windows ( how many times do I have to say that >) . Next time she will get (L)ubuntu back !
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-11-15
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<ducasse> hi all
<ducasse> good morning lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> good morning ducasse
<lotuspsychje> formatted all mu promotional usb sticks to ntfs
<lotuspsychje> and named it after my website :p
<ducasse> yay! :)
<ducasse> that must have been a *really* boring job :)
<lotuspsychje> yeah lol
<lotuspsychje> 50 pieces
<lotuspsychje> so ill send them free to most close customers
<lotuspsychje> website logo is also printed on it
<ducasse> why not give them to your 50 first customers?
<lotuspsychje> thats also an idea ducasse
<lotuspsychje> i thought to reward most closest friends, by sticking to me all these years
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: but to reward new customers is comercial thinking aswell :p
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: split them up, some to friends, the rest to customers.
<lotuspsychje> i already got 50 near customers lol
<ducasse> order more :)
<lotuspsychje> good idea
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: i had a friend guy with pc company, making comercial the 100 first customer would receive a free usb
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: what happened is, the whole town came grab a stick, and bought nothing lol
<ducasse> well, they're not 'customers' unless they actually buy something
<lotuspsychje> also true
<ducasse> he should have given out the sticks when they paid :)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> guess it wasnt a smart action haha
<ducasse> of course, everyone would then buy one stick and get one free :)
<lotuspsychje> bbl mate breakfast
<ducasse> ok, enjoy
<lotuspsychje> tnx u2
<lotuspsychje> working day today aswell
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<ducasse> oh man, my isp is now upgrading; soon they can provide 10gbps symmetrical :D
<BluesKaj> hi ducasse, pure fiber from end to end I suppose
<BluesKaj> no copper
<ducasse> i expect so, but if they can deliver 10gbps i don't care if it's over carrier pigeon :)
<ducasse> it's probably going to cost, though.
<BluesKaj> that's edgy fast
<BluesKaj> probly faster than most servers can do
<ducasse> yup. but if that's their new max maybe 1gbps symmetrical ends up with a decent price.
<BluesKaj> yeah, edgy is pricey for sure
<ducasse> not that i need more download speed than i have now, but faster uploads would be nice for remote backups etc.
<BluesKaj> ok, gotta go for an hr or so, BBL
<daftykins> nicomachus: what did you do to Windows? :P
<daftykins> ducasse: how's it work, do you have to sign up and wait? any ETA?
<ducasse> daftykins: all they said is "we're in the process of upgrading now", but they typically don't announce things that are far off.
<daftykins> *nod*
 * ducasse is emailing for more info :)
<daftykins> seems like winter time wouldn't be the time for rolling out some fiber either?
<ducasse> aiui all that is already in the ground.
<daftykins> ah, what do you have atm, cable?
<ducasse> cable
<daftykins> ah yeah, so HFC setup perhaps
<ducasse> hfc, yes.
<daftykins> i've been loving my new speeds since my upgrade :D
<ducasse> docsis 3.1, they say.
<daftykins> shame my line can't give me the full 60Mb down, but 52Mb is good all the same
<ducasse> i've got 150 now, and that's plenty. just wish upload was more than 15.
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> what would you make use of it with? i like the casual uploading of huge high quality pics+video from my phone, plus the hosting of services
<ducasse> i don't host anything at home, i rent vps services for that. but i push stuff out to remote backups, that takes time now.
<ducasse> wft is gnome-pty-helper and why is it running on my machine?
<daftykins> well, i do both
<daftykins> pass!
<ducasse> this machine is supposed to be ritually clean of gnome stuff, so how did it get here?
<ducasse> strange.
<ducasse> aha, part of libvte.
<ducasse> i still don't like it, though :)
<OerHeks> :-)
<ducasse> hiya OerHeks :)
<OerHeks> hi ducasse o/
<ducasse> OerHeks: everything good with drapper and you?
<OerHeks> Yes we are, thank you for asking
<ducasse> how does he like being outside now? do you have snow yet?
<OerHeks> Drabber does not like the rain, no snow yet :-(
<OerHeks> besides, i live like 5 km from the beach, so soft weather all year
<ducasse> it seems i've got a cat that just hates weather. as in, *any* weather.
<OerHeks> downside is the watercold weather, brrrrr
<ducasse> here we've got ~40cm of snow that is currently melting, so every surface humans are supposed to walk on are covered in ice with a thin layer of water on top.
<OerHeks> i love to watch the wind map https://www.ventusky.com/
<OerHeks> melting snow and freezing up, that is bad
<ducasse> yup, dangerous. it will be 'interesting' for those who drive to work in the morning :)
<OerHeks> if we get 10 cm of snow, it is called a disaster :-D
<ducasse> every single winter the bus companies are *very* surprised when the first snow comes, like it's never happened before :)
<OerHeks> that guy who builded his own nuclear reactor in his backyard, died :-( http://arstechnica.com/science/2016/11/this-fall-the-radioactive-boy-scout-died-at-age-39/
<ducasse> i hate to smile at this, but: "Unfortunately, the cause of death is still pending investigation."
<ducasse> :)
<ducasse> still though, respect to someone who tries to do that.
<ducasse> i bet explaining it to the fbi was lots of fun.
<ducasse> what's the correct procedure for requesting packages to be synced from debian to the dev release?
<nacc> ducasse: requestsync
<ducasse> nacc: thanks
<Bashing-om> !info lunux-image-generic xenial
<ubot5`> Package lunux-image-generic does not exist in xenial
<Bashing-om> !info linux-image-generic xenial
<ubot5`> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.4.0.47.50 (xenial), package size 2 kB, installed size 12 kB
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-11-16
<ducasse> hi all
<Bashing-om> o/ ducasse Here but maybe not for much longer :)
<ducasse> i see we have trolls. how fun. :-/
<Bashing-om> Well, just started with the trolls, hope it is no indication of forthcomming events .
<ducasse> let's hope not. this one wasn't even interesting...
<Bashing-om> Uh Huh .. time now to embibe in my nasty habit .
<Bashing-om> Time for me to retire, eyes crossing . Yall take care .
<BluesKaj> Hey all
<OerHeks> Hi BluesKaj :-D
<OerHeks> when i woke up this morning, my cactus went flowering overnight :-D
<OerHeks> .. pretty
<OerHeks> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6885560/2016cactus-bloei-1.JPG https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6885560/2016cactus-bloei-2.JPG
<BluesKaj> Hey OerHeks, nice ;-)
<OerHeks> large piece of the cactus fell off, took it home, and now i have a new living friend
<daftykins> ooh
<daftykins> neat
<de-facto> we really need a Chromium 54, those NET::ERR_CERTIFICATE_TRANSPARENCY_REQUIRED against symantec are *really* annoying :(
<daftykins> the whaaa?
<de-facto> it refuses to connect to many many websites because they have an argument with symantec, the chromium guys say its resolved with 54
<de-facto> so its ubuntu devs who need to do the next step to resolve this i guess
<daftykins> !info chromium
<ubot5`> Package chromium does not exist in xenial
<daftykins> !info chromium-browser
<ubot5`> chromium-browser (source: chromium-browser): Chromium web browser, open-source version of Chrome. In component universe, is optional. Version 53.0.2785.143-0ubuntu0.16.04.1.1254 (xenial), package size 60042 kB, installed size 230376 kB
<daftykins> ah har
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<BluesKaj> Hi pauljw
<pauljw> hey BluesKaj :)
<BluesKaj> what's new ...not much here except 4 trees gone from the yard, but I probly mentioned that already :-)
<pauljw> nothing new here either, you had mentioned the trees, hate to see em go.  can't risk damage or injury though. :)
<daftykins> will you replant some, to be your legacy?
<BluesKaj> still a couple red oaks and a yellow birch and an evergreen..the scrap jackpine s are gone as is the dangerous maple
<BluesKaj> the oaks are 30 yrs old, so i guess they're legacy
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-11-17
<OerHeks> !info chromium
<ubot5`> Package chromium does not exist in xenial
<OerHeks> !info chromium-browser
<ubot5`> chromium-browser (source: chromium-browser): Chromium web browser, open-source version of Chrome. In component universe, is optional. Version 53.0.2785.143-0ubuntu0.16.04.1.1257 (xenial), package size 60333 kB, installed size 230375 kB
<OerHeks> i just noticed updated chromium stuff that should fix that vulnerability
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> hyya lotuspsychje . Good morning .
<lotuspsychje> hey there Bashing-om
<lotuspsychje> a hot coffee to start the motor :p
<Bashing-om> It has slowed down on the channel, you will need another cuppa .
<lotuspsychje> okay
<lotuspsychje> new LUKS exploits out
<lotuspsychje> http://www.zdnet.com/article/major-linux-security-hole-gapes-open/
<lotuspsychje> good morning Jordan_U :p
<Bashing-om> I gone ,, yall have a good one.
<Bashing-om> I gone ,, yall have a good one.
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
<ducasse> hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse how are you today
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: seen this? http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/11/microsoft-yes-microsoft-joins-the-linux-foundation/
<lotuspsychje> yes lol, ive readed it
<BluesKaj> hi lotuspsychje, ducasse
<ducasse> releasing sql server for linux :)
<ducasse> \o BluesKaj
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: all for the image of MS
<lotuspsychje> they just love linux sooo much
<OerHeks> :-)
<lotuspsychje> hi OerHeks
<OerHeks> they'll end up being an wordprocessor-vendor
<OerHeks> hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> did you know secureboot could block a broadcom wifi on ubuntu?
<OerHeks> yes
<OerHeks> and BT, usb boot
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: well that was the trick, on a w10 HP laptop i did last time
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: if it uses dkms drivers, sure it can
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: problem was i never checked secureboot, as ubuntu installed right out of the box
<OerHeks> and there is an other funny setting, SRT, that could claim such hardware too
<OerHeks> IntelÂ® Smart Response Technology
<lotuspsychje> ah yeah ive seen that one before
<OerHeks> stop-redmond-tracking
<OerHeks> oh no, it is the opposite
<lotuspsychje> dirtycow :p
<BluesKaj> I'm sure MS has a other reasons for this...don't forget their predatory marketing pracrices of the past
<BluesKaj> practices
<ducasse> or it is just a realization that they don't dominate in datacenters and this is their best shot at making a bigger profit there.
<lotuspsychje> yeah they cant swallow this :p https://itsfoss.com/linux-99-percent-top-500-supercomputers/
<lotuspsychje> if they love linux their profit could be bigger as their associated with a hot Operating system
<ducasse> i doubt they care much about supercomputers other than the status of running them, but being able to push sql server on linux and better support for linux on azure are potential big-money makers.
<lotuspsychje> true that
<ducasse> maybe they'll actually help make wine better ;)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> ive read crossover did good job with MS office n such
<ducasse> never tried it, the only reason i need wine is to run winbox.
<ducasse> which works perfectly, since they test for wine compatibility.
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> bbl guys movietime
<lotuspsychje> have a nice one
<nacc> like immature children, #ubuntu users can be :)
<OerHeks> i think that guest is childish too  ..
<nacc> i meant both of them, yeah
<nicomachus> can't decide if this sdfksdfk guy is just trolling or just stupid.
<nacc> can always be both :)
<daftykins> :D
<pauljw> hey :)
<daftykins> \o
<ducasse> \o daftykins
<daftykins> heya
<ducasse> soldered anything interesting recently? :)
<Bashing-om> *ducasse*: Sick ? , insomnia ? .. awake on our watch .
<daftykins> sadly no, nothing going on! i got all that gear picked up though, so my house is now hugely tidy \o/
<daftykins> only one extra PC that i don't need!
 * ducasse looks around
<ducasse> i... can't say the same :)
<OerHeks> i have more lcd screens than pcs
<OerHeks> :-D
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> i gave away quite the # of laptops
<\9> ducasse: can't be worse than mine
<daftykins> oh i tell a lie... my old HTPC is still on the shelf, so 2 PCs i don't need :>
<ducasse> i was so good at not hoarding this stuff for so long and then it sort of slowly escalated again.
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> yeah it all just happens overnight if you're not careful!
<daftykins> i was told some might make it to africa if they can't find a use locally, so that's nice
<nicomachus> I wish there was a way to watch Netflix with a CLI browser, or even streamed through MPV or something.
<daftykins> hehe, CLI browser makes me think of blinkenlights
<daftykins> if that was the name for that ASCII telnet stream of some amusing things
<nicomachus> lynx is the only one I've ever used.
<daftykins> might be tempting a client into a 4K OLED TV soon so i'll be able to check out the shiny quality without spending myself, which is always the best way :D
<pauljw> ooooh, sounds like fun daftykins
<ducasse> daftykins: hdr, i expect?
<daftykins> oh that'd be the absolute minimum for a 4K purchase yep
<pauljw> some of these new tv's are unbelievable
<daftykins> HDMI 2.0+ on all ports, HDCP 2.2 on all ports, both HDR specs... happy to ignore 3D though
<daftykins> pauljw: sure are!
<OerHeks> 4k ... http://betanews.com/2016/11/17/system76-4k-display-ubuntu-linux-oryx-pro/
<daftykins> 3840x2160 is a lot of pretty lights
<OerHeks> like HD on an iphone, silly
<daftykins> hah yeah, you have to go big or go home
<nicomachus> OerHeks: damn you, I was literally about to paste that link. Just found it.
<OerHeks> :-D
<OerHeks> plus point of 4K .. if some pixels fail, you will notnotice
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> i've not ever had any pixels go wonky tbh
<ducasse> "I need help i it dif >linux mint < & ubuntu distro"? i'm impressed you got *anything* out of that, OerHeks
<OerHeks> dif - diff ..
<OerHeks> but really, many people who ask the benefits of mint over ubuntu or ubuntu over debian...
<OerHeks> mint is slowwww
<OerHeks> maybe phoronics will do an OS speed test ..
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> folks used to say Mint was nice because of codecs being on out of the box, totally pointless
<nicomachus> OerHeks: in the video in that article, the guy is trashing AMD drivers in *buntu. >:(
<daftykins> pretty standard!
<nicomachus> I like my radeon driver tyvm
<daftykins> oh man the stuff he's saying is ridiculous
<daftykins> "yeah for someone new to gaming the arrows painted onto the W,S,A,D there"
<daftykins> *groan*
<nicomachus> lol
<nicomachus> he also doesn't have the 4K display... which is the whole point of the article.
 * daftykins facepalms
<OerHeks> there is a difference between amdgpu and amdgpu-pro iirc
<daftykins> wow i'm so behind on the AMD driver situation
<OerHeks> i am behind on systemd ..
<OerHeks> really like some tutorial, besides the info i found from other distros
<nicomachus> my favorite private tracker got shut down. :/
<daftykins> "wussat dafty, you wanna get up? ho-hoooo no!" http://i.imgur.com/M5f2au1.jpg
<OerHeks> kitty kitty, meet drabber!
<OerHeks> :-D
<daftykins> would he play nice? :P
<OerHeks> He is afraid of cats, actually
<daftykins> oooh
<daftykins> they'd both be afraid of one another, it's a perfect match!
<OerHeks> .. until kitty finds out
<OerHeks> kitty -> tiger
<ducasse> daftykins: same issue here. "you want to move? not my problem."
<OerHeks> same here, actually
<OerHeks> .. without the magic word: cookie ?
<daftykins> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-McpW9rDyu4g/T0exkAjHKiI/AAAAAAAAATc/du8g9Vexz3Y/s1600/Cookie_monster.jpg
<OerHeks> without words .. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6885560/DrabberIsMijnBloem.JPG
<daftykins> d'aww
<daftykins> :D
<ducasse> oooh, that reminds me - cookies & cream icecream in the freezer!
<daftykins> O: yes please
<nicomachus> ducasse: share pls
<ducasse> wish i could, unfortunately the tech is not quite there yet :)
<pauljw> i'm anxiously awaiting replicator technology myself, no need to share, just create...
<OerHeks> monday payday, so i am eating what i have left in my storage
<OerHeks> ..wait, i have icecream too
<pauljw> :)
<Bashing-om> I *will* treat my-own-self ; later .. but thank you very much .
<OerHeks> Bashing-om, any snow yet?
<Bashing-om> OerHeks: No ! .. and keep that stuff to your self ... it has been unseasonably warm jere .. die to change tomorrow though .
<Bashing-om> here*
<Bashing-om> due* sheeshhh :)
<OerHeks> climate change, earth is tumbling
<pauljw> climate changes every day around here...
<OerHeks>  samsung washing machines no longer allowed on airplanes as a carry-on
<OerHeks> "watch out, he has got a samsung!"
<pauljw> have they ever figured out what the issue was with the note7 ?
<Bashing-om> And I am not afraid to use it !
<OerHeks> those lithium batteries are dangerous, i suspect that the MH-17 went down by one, maybe from an ipad
<pauljw> but why just that one model, aren't they using the same batteries in the rest of the line?  lot's of other devices use lithium batteries and they're not spontaneously blowing up.
<pauljw> note taking function making additional heat in more confined space maybe?
<OerHeks> Samsung previously stated that its initial findings point to a production error on the plates within the Galaxy Note 7 battery cells, making it possible for both opposite poles to make contact, which then leads to excessive heat and, ultimately, to the phone catching fire or exploding.
<pauljw> ah, thanks, hadn't seen that anywhere.
<daftykins> i keep reading that the normal S7 has had a couple of fires as well now
<daftykins> guy nearly lost his posterior to one, recently
<pauljw> oh crap, not good for samsung, and i so love my galaxy tab 7
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> ooh i didn't check the local trade site today, lets see if there's any pickings...
<daftykins> hmm nope
<daftykins> not that i should be trying to get more gear into the house after just getting rid ;)
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-11-18
<OerHeks> Do not !... https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/commandline/2016/11/17/do-not-change-linux-files-using-windows-apps-and-tools/
<OerHeks> platinum members care about linux
<R13ose> This is happening to me again: http://pastebin.com/9Up28Z60
<R13ose> bbl
<R13ose> Hi
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<R13ose> Hi
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
<lotuspsychje> welcome Roy
<Roy> thanks lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic xenial
<ubot5`> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.4.0.47.50 (xenial), package size 2 kB, installed size 12 kB
<R13ose> This is happening to me again: http://pastebin.com/9Up28Z60 I was using Firefox so only happened in there.
<lotuspsychje> R13ose: ive seen softpedia article, kde plasma users were urged to reinstall
<lotuspsychje> perhaps related?
<R13ose> lotuspsychje: reinstall because?
<Roy> Huh? !info gives information about a package in a cirtain repo?
<daftykins> because it's nearly Christmas! \o/
<daftykins> (not really)
<lotuspsychje> R13ose: lemme refind article holdon
<lotuspsychje> R13ose: not sure if this is your case ok
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/kde-neon-users-urged-to-upgrade-their-systems-or-reinstall-the-linux-distro-510183.shtml
<daftykins> hrmm
<R13ose> How do I upgrade to KDE 5.8?
<daftykins> what a mess
<daftykins> ask in #kubuntu
<lotuspsychje> yeah good idea
<daftykins> quick google says "you have to install KDE Neon to use the latest version"
<R13ose> Thanks
<lotuspsychje> Roy: yes, ubottu shows info about packages from several ubuntu versions and their used repo
<R13ose> daftykins: can I ask in #ubuntu as well?
<daftykins> -_-
<R13ose> -_-
<daftykins> the topics of a channel tell you what they are for.
<R13ose> ok
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: <R13ose> This is happening to me again: http://pastebin.com/9Up28Z60 I was using Firefox so only happened in there.
<lotuspsychje> perhaps you might know?
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, sorry I haven't seen that before on FF
<lotuspsychje> no sweat
<daftykins> we were last told it was on multiple browsers
<R13ose> this is multiple browsers but I tend to use firefox more these days.
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, I tried chromium as well, couldn't replicate
<daftykins> intel woes + bad choice of laptop
<R13ose> Yet, I didn't seem to have problems with Gnome at all.  Yet, this has happened in KDE.
<daftykins> time to switcheroo
<Roy> <Roy> I tried to configure bumblebee last week. But I didn't succeed. Now I'm using nvidia-prime.
<Roy> <Roy> Do any of you use nvidia optimus based laptops?
<Roy> I don't think those came trough since I switched to vpn before I sent those, did they?
<daftykins> no, but this isn't a support channel
<daftykins> bumblebee hasn't been relevant for many years, you should be looking at nvidia-prime
<Roy> daftykins, thank you.
<Roy> In that case, I don't even need to find support anymore. It seems to work okay using nvidia-prime. :)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<daftykins> heh
<lotuspsychje> !yay | Roy
<ubot5`> Roy: Glad you made it! :-)
 * daftykins blows the end of his gun and holsters it
<daftykins> most everyone with optimus gets video tearing still, it's simply not good on Linux
<R13ose> what is normally talked about here?
<Roy> I haven't found a serious problem concerning screentearing while playing two games today on the nvidia profile.
<lotuspsychje> R13ose: ubuntu discussions
<R13ose> like?
<lotuspsychje> R13ose: discussions about ubuntu :p
<Roy> I'm running Ubuntu Gnome on my new xiaomi notebook air 13"
<R13ose> do many people use Ubuntu on macs?
<lotuspsychje> Roy: use #ubuntu for issues
<Roy> Quite suprised about how nice everything runs.
<daftykins> i thought they only did cheap exploited phones
<daftykins> (xiaomi)
<lotuspsychje> R13ose: many ubuntu lovers do, if their mac version can run ubuntu
<R13ose> can't all macs run ubuntu?
<daftykins> not well, no
<lotuspsychje> !mac
<ubot5`> For help on installing and using Ubuntu on a Mac, see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MactelSupportTeam/CommunityHelpPages
<Roy> They make all kinds of things, even smart bicycles.
<daftykins> and the wiki above is an outdated mess
<daftykins> hah
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: think they edited lately, but surely not real up to date :p
<OerHeks> daftykins, amdgpu 1.230 will get better http://news.softpedia.com/news/open-source-amdgpu-and-radeon-linux-drivers-bring-tearfree-dri3-by-default-510302.shtml
<OerHeks> or 1.20
<daftykins> ah i was mostly talking tearing on nvidia optimus hybrid setups
<DJones> daftykins: Must admit, that optimus seems to work fine for me with intel/Nvidia 750M, maybe I'm the lucky one
<DJones> I've not had any issues with tearing, saying that I leave nvidia on all the time, I don't bother swiotching between the two
<lotuspsychje> weird invention, to disable a better graphics card
<lotuspsychje> who not just make it low mode or something if your not a gamer
<lotuspsychje> *why
<lotuspsychje> bbl
<daftykins> DJones: you can't switch in some setups, depends if it's muxing or muxless - also we're talking fullscreen games for tearing, so do you do that? :)
<Roy> DJones, Do you also use nvidia-prime?
<Roy> Oh, I see. I want my batterylife to be okay, I don't always have my charger by hand.
<DJones> Roy: Yes I do
<Roy> With Bumblebee, I could get 7+ hours browsing the web. With the gpu completely disabled.
<DJones> My laptop is permantaly on power anyway
<daftykins> great way to murder the battery :)
<Roy> I think it's better to stay connected to power to preserve battery cycles.
<daftykins> that's not how it works
<daftykins> typically, staying tethered and continually staying at top charge eventually murders the entire cell pack
<daftykins> very very common thing.
<Roy> Ah, that's true.
<daftykins> i tend to tell clients to remove the battery if a machine won't move... but then it's rare that i'll be up against those that don't move that are running a laptop thankfully :)
<Roy> My MacBook (2011) still has it's original battery. Still lasts for 5 hours on a charge.
<Roy> But, I use it during transit. It's only on charger when I'm working. (09:00 - 17:00)
<daftykins> *nod*
<daftykins> a travelling businessman client of mine, his laptops last great until we move him to a new one, then practically overnight the old model will cease to hold a charge
<daftykins> well, feels overnight but it's probably more like 3 months going by :D
<BluesKaj> my 3yr old laptop battery lasts about 3 hrs, tops
<Wirehunter> I switched username from Roy to something I can register :)
<daftykins> that asus sandybridge i5 i sold was from 2011, that kept going for 8hrs even as i sold it
<daftykins> i think the mate that bought it got a good deal there
<daftykins> Â£250 for i5, 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD
<Wirehunter>  /msg NickServ VERIFY REGISTER Wirehunter uiqhgruftehk
<Wirehunter> Oops
<daftykins> publically logged channel ;) but i don't remember if anything in that is important
<daftykins> think it's fine, but always best to use the status window
<OerHeks> it is no password,just the confirmationcode
<daftykins> yarr
<Wirehunter> I did the registration itself to the server. (I'm using hexchat) But now I didn't think about that anymore. :/
<OerHeks> Wirehunter, i can see it worked, congrats
<lotuspsychje> dinnertime, laterz guys
<Wirehunter> OerHeks, Thanks
<daftykins> now you can configure SASL authentication :)
<Wirehunter> Ah, thanks for pointing that out.
<OerHeks> oh wait, i forgot that after reinstall ..
<OerHeks> done
<daftykins> since it sends your password over plaintext though, you'll want to connect to freenode by SSL
<OerHeks> I know, i am a high target, etc
<OerHeks> wicked
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> well the above was for Wirehunter too ^
<OerHeks> 3 attempts/minute on oerheks@ubuntu.com ... no, just joking
<daftykins> now you typed it out in a logged channel the bots are gonna spam it!
<nicomachus> OerHeks: target value doesn't matter anymore. You could just be another bot in the net
<nicomachus> ugh. my wifi is cutting out like every 30 secs.
<daftykins> o0
<daftykins> failing router?
<nicomachus> daftykins: don't think so. It's here at the office, so I'm just gonna call IT.
<daftykins> ah
<daftykins> makes me cringe hearing how folk in the office are on wireless :(
<nicomachus> well my desktop is wired and connected to the intranet
<daftykins> friend of mine that's a software dev for a huge dev firm in Houston is trying to do MS Azure performance testing... they got their wired connections taken away ;_;
<nicomachus> but we also have a wireless AP that is a separate network for personal devices. In this case, my laptop.
<daftykins> oh you get given both? that's handy, also keep hearing about businesses that provide laptops only
<daftykins> oh it's personal only?
<nicomachus> and the wireless network doesn't have access to intranet sites or any connection to the main network. so less locked-down in terms of security.
<nicomachus> which means I can actually SSH into my home server without sending up a flag for IT to call me and inquire about.
<daftykins> did you get far with the VT-d thing?
<nicomachus> yea once I enabled that it worked fine.
<nicomachus> took a bit to find the option in the BIOS though
<daftykins> oh so it wasn't even passworded? i thought that was why you hadn't done it
<nicomachus> you know, for how strict they are at some aspects of security, they are incredibly lax when it comes to individual machines.
<nicomachus> I shouldn't be able to boot from USB or change BIOS settings or probably even install a VM without admin approval, but here we are.
<daftykins> i truly thought you were only wrestling last week because the BIOS was locked down
<nicomachus> no I just didn't wanna reboot at the time. haha
<daftykins> holy crap, man - you shock me
<nicomachus> haha why?
<daftykins> so are you still going down that insane VM route instead of just discovering the Windows tools?
<nicomachus> no, I'm just bringing in my laptop and using that for a lot of stuff.
<daftykins> >_<
<daftykins> nicomachus: is it dev you do?
<nicomachus> daftykins: no. nothing IT related.
<daftykins> ah
<daftykins> definitely pretty weird them not locking things down, i do it even for my travelling biz client
<nicomachus> oh well. Not much risk from our type of office.
<daftykins> nah given they've gotta get past the physical security to get in anyway, all bets would be off
<nicomachus> physical security is VERY strong. haha
<daftykins> cor proper rain again here, somehow it's turning to ice on the roof
<nicomachus> this SSL error in Chromium is starting to get very annoying.
<nicomachus> http://i.imgur.com/oqXtumW.jpg
<daftykins> someone the other day said the next version sorts it
<daftykins> but that it's probably not in the repos yet
<EriC^^> howdy
<daftykins> heya \o how are ye?
<EriC^^> daftykins: hey, good you?
<daftykins> mmm not bad here cheers
<EriC^^> cool
<EriC^^> :D
<EriC^^> i've got some dr pepper from a large supermarket here
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i sometimes treat myself with a bottle of that
<EriC^^> i wonder why they dont sell it everywhere here, just pepsi/coke miranda and 7up usually
<EriC^^> i really wish they would bring more dr pepper/cherry and taco bell here
<EriC^^> not a single taco bell here
<daftykins> miranda o0
<EriC^^> yeah
<daftykins> not heard of that one!
<EriC^^> it's like crush
<EriC^^> it tastes ugh
<EriC^^> https://www.makro.co.za/Images/Products/Large/MIN_176630001_EAA.jpg?v=20160308
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-11-19
<ducasse> hi all
<Wirehunter> ducasse, Hi
<Bashing-om> ducasse: \o
<ducasse> \o
<ducasse> Bashing-om: seems quiet? to be expected on a weekend morning, i guess...
<Bashing-om> Well.. lately been quiet all the time, compared to what It used to be .
<ducasse> worse on weekends, though.
<Bashing-om> I guess dancing and caroussing about is more pressing to folks than tweak'n 'buntu .
<ducasse> tsk, tsk... a "life", i think they call it...
<Bashing-om> HUh .. more life than feeding 'buntu ?
<ducasse> who knows, i don't have one :)
<Bashing-om> Well, I get ajatated when real life interfers with my virtual life, ( and all it takes to support that virtual life ). Now if I wanted it different, different it would be .
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<ducasse> \o BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> Hey ducasse
<ducasse> just discovered they're filming ghost in the shell :D
<Ben64> i hate people
<BluesKaj> what people ?
<Ben64> john_s
<BluesKaj> heh, cement head
<Ben64> i'll never understand why people come to get help, then reject it all
<Ben64> no, i want it solved my way!
<ducasse> "i don't want it solved, i want to be RIGHT!"
<ducasse> if he had actually listened to begin with, maybe we would have gotten somewhere. now he's just discarding suggestions and _still_ claiming we're all wrong...
<freakyy> i love ubuntu ;D
<freakyy> i just switched my debian server to ubuntu 16.04.1 ;D
<daftykins> that's nice
<freakyy> (:
<daftykins> glad to see that at least LTS is being used
<ducasse> \o daftykins, soon off to bed here.
<daftykins> ah har
<daftykins> 35mph winds buffeting the windows here - and solid rain
<daftykins> true wintery night
<ducasse> jeeez, some huy is msg'ing me to teach me about islam...
<ducasse> *guy
<ducasse> too tired for that.
<daftykins> XD
<ducasse> god, when people ask for instructions and are given them, why do they do something *different* and then doesn't even bother to provide a complete paste?
<ducasse> state of apt messed up, lots of ppas, some of them pretty broken, *and* enabled proposed...
<daftykins> this is why being banned was a saving grace
<daftykins> :>
<ducasse> i'm thinking of doing that myself >:-)
<ducasse> what a liberating feeling that would be!
<daftykins> this is the problem, because even helping out - what does solving some users problem really do in the grand scheme? makes folks depend on coming here to be spoonfed sadly
<ducasse> i agree, i prefer other channels where you're allowed to say 'rtfm, dammit!' sometimes
<ducasse> but those who don't know how to rtfm also need help
<daftykins> perhaps, but if something is on a wiki then i think pasting links is going too far
<daftykins> a user who won't lift a finger is not worthy of assistance
<OerHeks> ducasse, this john dude has wine issues?
<ducasse> i dislike the ones who come in and say 'i have this problem: http://pastebin.com/foobar'. if they cant describe the problem, i don't care.
<OerHeks> daftykins, i want to suggest to remove the mouse completely from linux :-D
<ducasse> OerHeks: i gave up on him looong ago, he was useless.
<ducasse> would *not* listen, even after 1,5 hours of being told the same thing.
<daftykins> ducasse: eh a log at least beats "x doesn't work"
<daftykins> Bashing-om: \o wb
<Bashing-om> I get strapped in here, see what the ride is going to be . Good day to ya daftykins :)
<ducasse> daftykins: yes, but they could say "i have this *x* problem:..." - without opening the link i have no idea if i'm likely to be able to help.
<ducasse> hiya Bashing-om :)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: And to you also a big Hiya, going well for you ?
<daftykins> holy moly, some guttering just snapped off a building opposite me in these high winds and smashed down to the lane... it's a piece about 8 feet long
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Mother nature raising her head .. We too have been under high winds, So far I have seen no damage .
<ducasse> Bashing-om: i'm good, thanks :) just need to order a couple of new yubikeys and pay some bills, then off to bed.
<Bashing-om> life; eat, sleep, pay bills - so we can eat and sleep ( and pay for the parts in our systems )  :)
<OerHeks> I am looking for a servant.. to walk with drabber, brrrrrrrr
<ducasse> OerHeks: did abmares2 ask you also about 'ISLAM'?
<OerHeks> not yet, i cannot ban PM individualy on hexchat :-(
<OerHeks> he must be moving on to the next one i guess
<ducasse> any of you have any experience with arch? thinking of switching my desktop to it.
<ducasse> OerHeks: here he goes with the 'tude again...
<ducasse> "oh, so since you have told me what to do i'm goig to pretend i was right all along instead of just wasting 3 hours of your time"
<ducasse> a**hole. foadiaf.
<ducasse> grrrrr....
<Bashing-om> Lead a horse to water, if it does not drink, then it is his problem. no ?
<ducasse> Bashing-om: this was just ridiculous, though. nvm, i hope he's gone now. i will be soon anyway.
<ducasse> Bashing-om: have you used arch?
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Not in many years, before my 'buntu time .. and even back then was lightly .
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Something ya got going on ya can bounce off me, see what bounces back ?
<ducasse> Bashing-om: ok, i'm just looking at it. considering it for my desktop, i sometimes miss something a bit more like slackware (which i 'grew up' with)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Well, let me relate my thought . Core install .. ubuntu as the sources list .. and build what you want .. I have been very pleased overall with my results . ( but stuck right for 16.04 getting some desktop access' to work )
<ducasse> Bashing-om: sure, that's what have now, but i use a *ton* of stuff that requires manual building on ubuntu but exists in arch repo or aur.
<ducasse> *what i have now
<Bashing-om> Yukkie then on 'buntu .. I had not realized there were those limitations .
<daftykins> arch is for Linux ricers though :D
<ducasse> Bashing-om: it's not, normally, i guess i just use a lot of weird stuff :)
<Bashing-om> Well .. one can view as this " makes you the better coder " when ya can port the app over !
<ducasse> daftykins: not a ricer, #i3 is teeming with them these days. a lot of them *are* on arch, which most of them probably shouldn't be.
<Bashing-om> I also know can drive you to drink'n from the frustration of try, code, break - try recode - break .. try try try .
<ducasse> Bashing-om: reading up on lisp and python in my spare time, i'm glad i don't code for a living...
<daftykins> yeah tiling window managers are also part of the ricer fashion :>
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Well .. with all I have going on, and the commitments I have .. I can not organized myself now-a-days to learn new code .
<ducasse> daftykins: i know, it's pretty sad. there was i guy today who asked how to open all windows as floating and where the control center was...
<ducasse> Bashing-om: i have spare time, and i have to use it for _something_. better than watching tv.
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Ouch ! You got that right ! .. Here in the US ...TV is more commercials than program .. and the progamming is getting nastier by the day .. I quit TV several years back .. I keep telling my self that one of these days I will learn 'buntu'n .
<ducasse> Bashing-om: very restricted how much commercials they are allowed to send here, but i still hate them. and i refuse to watch trash like the kardashians etc. learning more programming seemed like a good idea for something to spend time on, and so far lisp looks very interesting :)
<Bashing-om> Well .. What I have learned from learning to program ., sure teaches one to be logical in their thought processes ! Me Am now very far behind the times .. but in my days was 'C' to " do it all " .
<ducasse> Bashing-om: i just know the bare basics of c, not going to pick it up again, i think. well, the cat wants me to go to bed so she can sleep in her warm spot - i better obey...
<ducasse> good night/day all.
<Bashing-om> Nite note ducasse .. rest well .
<daftykins> \0
<ducasse> oh, and btw - i usually don't care about movies, but... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUtG93BebJ4
<daftykins> yeah, that one is a crime against the original
<ducasse> oh, bummer.
<ducasse> zZzZ...
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-11-20
<Bashing-om> Dwindled down ,, I am down for the count .. see yall later .
<lotuspsychje_> good morning to all
<ObrienDave> *waves from the abyss* ;P
<ducasse> hi lotuspsychje_
<lotuspsychje_> hey ducasse breakfast time again
<lotuspsychje_> have nice day mate
<ducasse> ok, enjoy \o
<lotuspsychje> MS loves linux again :p https://redmondmag.com/articles/2016/11/18/microsoft-warns-bash-on-windows.aspx
<baizon> microsoft never changes, they were, are and will be evil
<lotuspsychje> lol
<ducasse> i can't help but think there's some ulterior motive behind this whole "we like linux now" thing...
<lotuspsychje> yeah same thought here
<lotuspsychje> the age of keeping ppl stupid is done, big companys cant just do things unknown anymore
<ducasse> what is this guy doing? why is he trying to run a web server?
<lotuspsychje> no idea, just joined
<ducasse> he's been ranting on and off for an hour now, seems to be no system to what he's doing
<lotuspsychje> welcome Zigtalk and Wirehunter
<Wirehunter> lotuspsychje, Hi
<Wirehunter> lotuspsychje, I was here before by Roy. Had to register a nickname for other channels.
<lotuspsychje> ah right
<lotuspsychje> the nick is better now :p
<ducasse> incredible.
<lotuspsychje> lol ducasse
<lotuspsychje> such a ppa list omg
<ducasse> _and_ proposed, which i _very clearly_ told him to disable. "ok, done!" he said.
<lotuspsychje> oO
<ducasse> i cleaned up that machine less than 12 hours ago.
<lotuspsychje> some ppl will never learn
<lotuspsychje> they add and add stuff from ppa's and are shocked if system gets stuck
<lotuspsychje> i got 1 usefull ppa to keep my EID software going and thats about it
<lotuspsychje> bbl ducasse dinnertime ; )
<ducasse> this guy has just enabled every software source he could find :)
<lotuspsychje> loll
<ducasse> dinner so soon? :)
<lotuspsychje> well off to restaurant for my gf birthday
<lotuspsychje> 11.45 to drive there
<lotuspsychje> have a nice sunday ducasse
<ducasse> aha, have fun! congrats to her :)
<lotuspsychje> tnx mate!
<lotuspsychje> she says thank you ducasse :p
<ducasse> :)
<BluesKaj> Howdy all
<ducasse> hiya BluesKaj - how are things? weather nice?
<BluesKaj> hey ducasse, well, it seems winter has arrived here, a couple of cms of snow, but cold last night at -7C, supposed to be sunny today
<BluesKaj> how about you and there?
<ducasse> ah. winter reappeared yesterday, but today it can't decide between snow and rain, it seems. really windy up here on the hill, though.
<ducasse> but i'm happy, inside, warm, icecream in the freezer and a warm cat purring next to me :)
<BluesKaj> ;-)
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-11-13
<Sveta> do we have coffee survivors here (people who switched away from it at a point)?
<daftykins> mostly substituted for tea to cut down
<Sveta> :)
<daftykins> i don't even understand what's with tea, it's not especially good tasting or anything... just the ritual of making it seems to be the thing
<daftykins> are you planning a coffee detox? :)
<oerheks> I keep a jar of instantcoffee in the back, just in case ..
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> "break glass to brew"
<oerheks> sugar&milk sackets from the restaurant, cookies too :-D
<Sveta> I don't use coffee, just asked anyone at random
<JanC> daftykins: some "teas" have more caffeine than coffee  :P
<oerheks> Tea is not my pot
<oerheks> wiskey makes cola acceptable
<daftykins> eh all i know is i'd go to the coffee chains that are right beside my home here a little too often, then worried when i felt my heart racing just sat in my PC chair :>
<daftykins> and i'm not overweight or unfit or anything particularly, so that was odd
<JanC> many professional athletes use coffee before a race
<JanC> and some coffee has very little caffeine
<daftykins> well the athlete angle is new to me, but the rest is very much a statement of the obvious
<JanC> and there are also plenty of teas, so whatever taste you like might also depend on choice
<JanC> tea + other herbs/tastes blends
<daftykins> man, you bring back the feeling of being in #ubuntu so accurately
<JanC> like, Moroccan tea with mint, cinnamon & orange extract :)
<JanC> daftykins: it's common for some cyclists, football (soccer) players and T&F athletes
<JanC> and probably more
<daftykins> well it is the energy unlocker after all
<JanC> something like that
<JanC> for many athletes, you try to lower your in-rest heartbeat as much as possible, so maybe the caffeine helps to to get it up at the start of a race
<Sveta> [14:34:35] <GhostwalkGames> Ubuntu removed Wine from apt ?
<Sveta> [14:34:46] <gogeta> GhostwalkGames, seems so
<Sveta> what the
<Sveta> hmm
<oerheks> ssst
<Sveta> it's a bit baffling that I don't even know where to check this info
<oerheks> wine is in universe https://packages.ubuntu.com/artful/wine-stable
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<EriC^^> good morning lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
<EriC^^> how's it going?
<ducasse> good morning, everyone
<Alsophila> SoooooSAD:(
<Alsophila> I failed to install Ubuntu...
<Alsophila> What is busybox and why it appears...
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
<lotuspsychje> fine here EriC^^
<ducasse> morning lotuspsychje, how's life treating you? :)
<lotuspsychje> great here tnx :p
<lotuspsychje> brb
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> g'morning lordievader!
<ducasse> all well today?
<lordievader> Doing good here, how are you ducasse ?
<ducasse> i'm good as long as i can stay inside - it's -5Â°C here today :)
<lordievader> Brr
<lordievader> It is around 10 degrees here, lot better.
<ducasse> lordievader: i'm just going to ignore the outside world today, pretend it's not there. shut all windows, turn up the heat and make a huge pot of tea :)
<lordievader> Hahaha, great idea/
<lotuspsychje> hey lordievader
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: we visited the champagne area in france
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje , how are you doing?
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: this weekend? cool, how was it?
<lotuspsychje> amazing
<lotuspsychje> alot of rain but much champagne tasting
<lotuspsychje> the whole city there has underground cellars with bottles of champagne
<lotuspsychje> 1 million of them
<ducasse> oO
<lotuspsychje> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avenue_de_Champagne
<lotuspsychje> richest street of the world
<lotuspsychje> its such a labirynth of underground streets, they got street names below oO
<ducasse> cool :) they have a similar thing in paris, i think, with the catacombs below ground
<ducasse> you can basically follow the street signs down there all across the city
<lotuspsychje> yep
<lotuspsychje> so we went tasting 3 champagne houses/farmers
<ducasse> still hungover? ;)
<lotuspsychje> lol no, its not like you getting full glasses
<lordievader> Wow, street names below the streets XD
<lotuspsychje> just enough to feel dizzy before lunch
<lordievader> ducasse: The catacombs in Paris are great. To me still the best part of Paris.
<lotuspsychje> http://www.castellane.com/image/gallery/47/image-moyen.jpg
<lotuspsychje> this house we did
<ducasse> lordievader: i'd love to see them some time, but haven't been in paris yet :-/
<lordievader> Fancy
<lordievader> https://static.thousandwonders.net/Catacombs.of.Paris.original.1830.jpg
<lotuspsychje> horror
<ducasse> haha! a heart in sculls! perfect valentines card! :D
<lotuspsychje> lol
<ducasse> lordievader: did you spend much time there? aiui the catacombs cover an enormous area?
<lordievader> I thought walking from start to finish took you some 15min, stopping at times to look at the skulls layed out in patterns, etc.
<lordievader> It is quite large, though cramped at the same time.
<ducasse> i still need to see them some time, got to visit paris anyway
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: did you spend all weekend there, or see something else as well?
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: yeah whole weekend bus trip
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: we traveled around the grapes fields aswell
<ducasse> it's a bit quicker and easier for you to take a quick trip to france than it is for me :)
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: indeed was about 4h drive
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: seems you had a good time :)
<lotuspsychje> yeah :p
<lotuspsychje> prepare for work now
<lotuspsychje> ttyl guys
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: have a nice warm day (inside) :p
<ducasse> enjoy!
<lotuspsychje> tnx
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<lordievader> Hey BluesKaj
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<BluesKaj> Hi lordievader , doing fine thanks, and you?
<lordievader> Doing good :)
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<immu> hiu
<immu> EriC^^,
<EriC^^> hi immu
<immu> i think you should add me to your friend list so that you know when i am in
<immu> Notify: EriC^^ is online (freenode) EriC^^
<immu> seeee
<EriC^^> :D
<EriC^^> i dont think this one has a friend list
<immu> right click my name and add to friend list
<EriC^^> ah cool
<immu> see Bashing-om is here
<Bashing-om> immu: :) .. See what I can learn this day .
<immu> yeah
<immu> lets see?
<nicomachus> BluesKaj: fite me
<BluesKaj> it's not dated at all it's actually a new DE
<BluesKaj> oops wrong chaat :-)
<nicomachus> :D
<nicomachus> rebooting real quick
<nicomachus> man. normally I reboot my rpi once every 2-3 months.
<nicomachus> twice today.
<daftykins> o0
<daftykins> trouble?
<nicomachus> nah, just upgrades
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-11-14
<chu> daftykins: I see you too!
<daftykins> ERMAGERD
<daftykins> *ermatux
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: o/
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Not much at all going on . Been an off session .
<lotuspsychje> kk tnx for the headsup
<lotuspsychje> JonesyJ: thats your nex nick?
<lotuspsychje> new
<JonesyJ> yeah other one is taken
<lotuspsychje> kk
<ducasse> good morning
<jink> 'sup.
<ducasse> snow :(
<jink> Heh. :)
<ducasse> cat seems utterly perplexed and shocked at this phenomenon :)
<oerheks> best thing is to roll the cat in the snow
<oerheks> :-D
<ducasse> that would make me an enemy for life :)
<oerheks> shake that cat-diner, and see
<ducasse> how's your weather today, oerheks?
<oerheks> Dry, 8'C, little cloudy
<oerheks> Bought a bakfiets yesterday, going to show mom later on
<oerheks> http://imgs.advertentiex.nl/upload/Origine-bakfiets-fietsfabriek-995-zwart-10339.jpeg
<oerheks> but 1st i will have coffee now
<ducasse> sounds like a plan :) congrats on the new bike
<oerheks> 3 wheel has to go, not really comfy to ride
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<TJ-> !ram
<ubot5> If you are wondering why some tools report your system has very little free memory, have a look at http://www.linuxatemyram.com/
<daftykins> another one? :)
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-11-15
<nicomachus> !info firefox
<ubot5> firefox (source: firefox): Safe and easy web browser from Mozilla. In component main, is optional. Version 56.0+build6-0ubuntu1 (artful), package size 43612 kB, installed size 166642 kB
<daftykins> slow bot? :>
<nicomachus> idk, is 57 in the repos yet? I assume not
<Bashing-om> nicomachus: And some mirors a real way behind too :(
<nicomachus> I was about to install from a tar... figured I'd check first.
<nicomachus> no android update yet, either, but it looks like a few of the features are going to be a couple versions behind on android
<nicomachus> looks like it should hit the repos in 0-2 days.
<nicomachus> Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<nicomachus> ok... this is nice.
<nicomachus> !info wmctrl
<ubot5> wmctrl (source: wmctrl): control an EWMH/NetWM compatible X Window Manager. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.07-7 (artful), package size 20 kB, installed size 78 kB
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<oerheks> no no, goodnight lotuspsychje
<oerheks> it is still dark outside ..
<lotuspsychje> dont tell me your still awake oerheks
<oerheks> jups ..
<lotuspsychje> uh oh
<lotuspsychje> the good side is you sucked up a lotta information tonight :p
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic bionic
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.13.0.16.17 (bionic), package size 2 kB, installed size 13 kB
<Bashing-om> 'Nuff Good nite \o
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/11/librem-5-phone-ringtone-contest-winners
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> good morning, all
<ducasse> \o lordievader, lotuspsychje
<lordievader> Hey ducasse (IRC)
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje (IRC)
<ducasse> how are you, lordievader?
<lordievader> Doing good here :)
<ducasse> not as cold today here :)
<lordievader> Thats good :)
<ducasse> how is it in .nl - any snow yet?
<oerheks> send us snow, please
<ducasse> you are welcome to come here and pick up as much as you want, oerheks
<lotuspsychje> bbl work guys
<oerheks> ducasse, oke, make some cookies, i'll be there in a ziffy
<ducasse> now you've even got a bike to bring it back with!
<oerheks> Monday, when i get new tyres, i'll make a pic
<lordievader> ducasse (IRC): Keep your snow, we don't want it.
<lordievader> Cold enough here
 * lordievader likes spring, not too hot not too cold
 * oerheks shakes his head, no cookies for lordievader 
<lordievader> :(
<lordievader> But I like cookies!
<ducasse> i agree with you lordievader, spring is a good time. i can't deal with serious heat
<ducasse> why are you so fond of snow, oerheks?
<oerheks> I am not, Drabber likes it
<oerheks> .. and cookies, but sugar is bad for him, not for me \0/
<oerheks> Oneplus removing backdoor, hmmm
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<lordievader> Hey BluesKaj (IRC)
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<BluesKaj> Hi lordievader, fine here, and you?
<lordievader> Doing good here
<nicomachus> !info firefox
<ubot5> firefox (source: firefox): Safe and easy web browser from Mozilla. In component main, is optional. Version 56.0+build6-0ubuntu1 (artful), package size 43612 kB, installed size 166642 kB
<nicomachus> nacc: any updates on when it should hit the repos?
<nicomachus> last night I was seeing "0-2 days"
<nacc> nicomachus: it builds in the security ppa and gets copied over. I don't see it in proposed yet, but nont sure if that happens for ff
<nicomachus> I just installed the firefox-next ppa
<nicomachus> Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<nacc> nicomachus: yeah, that's the thign to do in the meanwhile
<daftykins> ooh version chasers :P
<Bashing-om> Rainy Wed here - good to go to irc :)
<nicomachus> Bashing-om: first day without rain in almost a week here
<daftykins> O_O
<Bashing-om> nicomachus: Welcome the Sun Shine - same was here and had 2 days of sun .. wonderfull :)
<nicomachus> this guy trying to use tv.xfinity.com is interesting
<nicomachus> they completely block all linux OS's
<Bashing-om> nicomachus: Yeah .. watching too to see how it unfolds .
<nicomachus> I'm installing IE in wine right now
<nicomachus> errr... maybe not
<Bashing-om> nicomachus: Glad that my use cases are - simple - no Windows for me :)
<daftykins> why not just install a user agent switcher?
<Bashing-om> daftykins: OP tryed too .. no workie still .
<daftykins> i saw a UK satellite provider thats' service truly is IE only the other day - no way around that one
<nicomachus> yea, UA switch didn't work
<Bashing-om> daftykins: nicomachus "  done works on archlinux but you need pipelight " .
<nicomachus> saw that. I'm skeptical.
<nicomachus> installing Windows version of Firefox in wine now.
<Bashing-om> andd had TJ-'s interest ./. see where this leads :)
<daftykins> there's a guy in #ubuntu-uk who is being forced to enable and permit SSHv1 for work purposes and is having issues on one host despite identical config to another working host, if anyone fancies helping
<daftykins> any way to find out sshd's compile options?
<TJ-> !info ssh1 | daftykins
<ubot5> daftykins: Package ssh1 does not exist in artful
<TJ-> grrrr
<TJ-> !info ssh1 xenial | daftykins
<ubot5> daftykins: Package ssh1 does not exist in xenial
<TJ-> Grrr grrr
<nicomachus> lol
<TJ-> !info openssh-client-ssh1 xenial | daftykins
<ubot5> daftykins: openssh-client-ssh1 (source: openssh): secure shell (SSH) client for legacy SSH1 protocol. In component universe, is extra. Version 1:7.2p2-4ubuntu2.2 (xenial), package size 364 kB, installed size 1429 kB
<TJ-> bingo!
<daftykins> hmm i wonder which distros he's dealing with
<TJ-> daftykins: I use that to access some older embedded devices (CDU/UPS control boards)
<TJ-> I assumed Ubuntu!
<daftykins> well i think it is on one of them
<daftykins> i'll suggest it :>
<TJ-> I also have to use separate ~/.ssh/config files to make use of shorter DH keys (ssh2 doesn't accept the smaller values or some ciphers/hashes that need enabling for the ssh1 devices)
<daftykins> mmm he reckons he's generated them, but it's CentOS d'aww
<TJ-> not a problem generating them; it's using them in some builds of openssh
<TJ-> shorter lengths can leave the diffie-hellman key exchange weak
<TJ-> but older devices don't support longer key lengths
<daftykins> poor guy is trapped in the office until he wins!
<TJ-> tell him to install an Ubuntu VM :)
<TJ-> or a container
<daftykins> sounds like it's bound by a client of theirs
<TJ-> I use containers for these things to compartmentalise them from my regular configs. makes things easily portable; just have to ensure the same LAN IP follows the container if it moves hosts
<TJ-> otherwise the authorized_keys needs updating
 * nicomachus can't decide if dedze in #ubuntu is trolling or dumb
<nicomachus> literally every time someone says "am I being hacked?!?!?!11" I can't tell if trolling or dumb.
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> i certainly never know why they think anyone cares about them :>
<TJ-> of course you're being hacked! Your DNA is constantly evolving
<leftyfb> nicomachus: I'm not so sure the 2 aren't mutually exclusive to begin with anyway :)
<daftykins> :D
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-11-16
<Bashing-om> rebooting for testing a command in the TTY environment .
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<oerheks> hi lotus
<lotuspsychje> hey oerheks
<lotuspsychje> where is your O
<oerheks> oh, didn' t bother to correct it
<lotuspsychje> like it better
<oerheks> with the big O ?
<lotuspsychje> Oerheks
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
<EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> all good there EriC^^ ?
<EriC^^> yup you?
<lotuspsychje> yeah fine here
<lotuspsychje> coffee & chill before work
<lotuspsychje> !info firefox xenial
<ubot5> firefox (source: firefox): Safe and easy web browser from Mozilla. In component main, is optional. Version 57.0+build4-0ubuntu0.16.04.5 (xenial), package size 44608 kB, installed size 170740 kB
<lotuspsychje> new logo
<EriC^^> yeah firefox quantum
<EriC^^> seems ok yeah?
<lotuspsychje> yeah im testing it
<lotuspsychje> love the loading tabs
<sirru5h> Howdy Everyone
<jink> Morning.
<sirru5h> Hey there jink
<sirru5h> Looks like we got firefox 57.0
<lotuspsychje> hi jink
<lotuspsychje> hi sirru5h
<sirru5h> Hey there lotuspsychje how are you doing?
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/11/firefox-57-quantum-better-faster-stronger
<lotuspsychje> great here sirru5h
<sirru5h> I just hope it is better than 56 man I had a ton of trouble with that one
<sirru5h> At one point i actually removed and reinstalled firefox it was so buggy, weird because it was fine on my ubuntu 17.04 machine
<ducasse> good morning, all
<sirru5h> Hey there ducasse
<ducasse> \o sirru5h
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> hi lordievader
<ducasse> how are you guys?
<lordievader> Hey ducasse (IRC)
<lordievader> Doing good here, how are you?
<jink> Met je rare nick-completion.
 * lordievader blames weechat plugin
<ducasse> doing well, still waking up :)
<jink> lordievader: :P
<jink> lordievader: Get a real IRC client, like irssi. ^__^
<lordievader> That doesn't support Matrix.
<jink> lordievader: wtf is Matrix?
<lordievader> No need to swear... https://www.matrix.org/
<ducasse> i set up a riot account, but haven't looked at it much - maybe i should...
<lotuspsychje> hey lordievader & ducasse
<ducasse> good morning lotuspsychje
<ducasse> all well?
<lotuspsychje> yeah, you?
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: new phone tweaked already?
<ducasse> still new things to play with :)
<lotuspsychje> hmmz every time there's a new firefox it scrambles up my speed dial addon grr
<lotuspsychje> and i dont like top websites, as less visited websites are also important
<lotuspsychje> oh well, yet another speed dial addon for a change
<lotuspsychje> until next version doesnt support it
<ducasse> lets hope they don't change the addon stuff again in a while now
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> bbl guys work ; )
<lotuspsychje> have a nice day
<Bashing-om> !ping
<ubot5> pong!
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje (IRC)
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<Bashing-om> Ouch . forum suddenly went down - hard !
<Bashing-om>  .. back up ,, was not even able to ping :(
 * Bashing-om done - eyes too heavy to maintain . good nite \o
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<Guest45412> hi
<nicomachus> !info firefox
<ubot5> firefox (source: firefox): Safe and easy web browser from Mozilla. In component main, is optional. Version 57.0+build4-0ubuntu0.17.10.5 (artful), package size 45043 kB, installed size 171518 kB
<nicomachus> ayyyyy got that update
<nicomachus> I guess I should get rid of that firefox-new ppa and revert to the repo version...
<BluesKaj> trying out the new kde browser falkon ...reminds me of konqueror by the method used to import bookmarks .... impossible to figure out how to add them to the bookmarks toolbar ...so far it's got me beat..managed to import them, but adding them seems impossible
<BluesKaj> the browser is nice tho, it doesn't buffer on some difficult sites due to my slow dsl connection
<BluesKaj> buffer video that is
<nicomachus> "there is no apt"
<nicomachus> -_-
<daftykins> o0
<TJ-> nacc: can I sound you out on a theory regarding the sudo/nss issue from earlier?
<nacc> TJ-: sure
<TJ-> I think there may be a bug in the libnss-mdns .postinst script but I want a 2nd opinion. read "man nsswitch.conf", the section on the STATUS and ACTION, in particular for [NOTFOUND=return] ... do you agree "return" suggests no further lookups are done for that database (hosts in our case) e.g. if we have "hosts: mdns4_minimal [NOTFOUND=return] dns" it'll never reach 'dns' if 'hostname' was not found
<TJ-> by mdns4_minimal?
<TJ-> Because in /var/lib/dpkg/info/libnss-mdns:amd64.postinst it inserts that into the existing nsswitch.conf - I'd expect it to be "[NOTFOUND=continue]"
<TJ-> which explains why jmft2 had  'hosts: files mdns4_minimal [NOTFOUND=return] dns myhostname'
<daftykins> :)
<nacc> TJ-: makes sense, readinng still
<TJ-> that doesn't explain why 'files' didn't get it from /etc/hosts (but I assume the default is read as "files [success=continue] or "files [success=merge]"
<nacc> TJ-: also, [NOTFOUND=continue] appears to b the default
<nacc> TJ-: so i'm not sure why the =return is there at all
<TJ-> I'm trying to determine what the default status=action settings are; it's explained in the man page
<nacc> TJ-: yep, that's what i'm reading now
<nacc> looks to be
<nacc> success=return
<nacc> notfound=continue
<TJ-> nacc: right, you'd expect it'd be [FOUND=return]
<nacc> unavail=continue
<TJ-> sorry, [success=return]
<nacc> tryagain=continue
<TJ-> yeah
<daftykins> borked=callTJ
<nacc> heh
<daftykins> :>
<TJ-> so, in principle, jmft2's entry with "files" first should have read /etc/hosts, found the entry that matched /etc/hostname, and done [success=return]
<TJ-> but it seems like it may have done [success=continue] and then failed on a later look-up
<TJ-> if it had reached 'dns' and that called systemd-resolve, then the hostname would have resolved correctly even offline - according to my tests in an 17.10 container when doing "ip link set down dev eth0"
<nacc> TJ-: were youa ble to determine for sure that the hostname it was trying to resolve was the one in /etc/hosts?
<nacc> TJ-: if that mismatched, for some reason, i could see it falling over to dns
<nacc> TJ-: unfort. i think to get any debugging, yhou have to get all the LIBC debugging
<TJ-> so... seems like 3 possibilities: 1) nsswitch.conf is being ignored/is corrupt 2) libnss-mdns .postinst script is inserting the wrong [STATUS=action] or 3) there's a bug in the internal glibc nss implementation in 17.10
<nacc> TJ-: was this a regression for them on upgrade?
<TJ-> fresh install so no idea
<nacc> ok
<TJ-> the user said they're going to install 16.04 so no ability to further debug it there
<TJ-> seems to me there should be a unit-test for this someplace for offline lookups of local hostname
<TJ-> grrr! would you believe, for an NSS module NSS_STATUS_NOTFOUND can have two meanings, depending on whether errorno is set to ENOENT or SUCCESS !
<TJ-> reading https://www.gnu.org/software/libc/manual/html_node/NSS-Modules-Interface.html#NSS-Modules-Interface
<nacc> TJ-: lol
<TJ-> aha. default status=action options: https://www.gnu.org/software/libc/manual/html_node/Actions-in-the-NSS-configuration.html#Actions-in-the-NSS-configuration
<TJ-> default is "notfound=continue"
<TJ-> so that puts suspicion on libnss-mdns .postinst
<TJ-> if the nsswitch.conf cannot be read for whatever reason the default is: "For the hosts and networks databases the default value is dns [!UNAVAIL=return] files"
<TJ-> which could be what we were seeing - DNS *is* available so it's answer is definitive and 'files' is never used
<nacc> yeah, so *possibly* you are getting a parse error?
<nacc> and that is coming across as "nsswithc.conf cannnot be read" ?
<TJ-> possibly... there were /r/n line endings in /etc/hosts, but the user said /etc/nsswitch.conf didn't have them
<nacc> hrm
<TJ-> nacc: could be... it's only read once on start-up anyhow
<TJ-> oh wow, ouch! just had an apport dialog telling me that ycmd thing has crashed!
<TJ-> weird since I've not got any vim sessions going
<TJ-> i can't think of a way to prove nsswitch.conf get's read. it'll be too early to set an inotify watch on it, unless it gets read once per process rather than once per boot
<TJ-> oh, it's fine, it's once per process. "inotifywait -m /etc/nsswitch.conf" works
<nacc> TJ-: yeah, i think something inthe manpage says a given rpocess will only read it once
<nacc> so it wo't see updates at runtime
<TJ-> "sudo -i" and it reads twice; I assume once for sudo and once for $SHELL
<TJ-> it does mean we can experiment by altering the file and re-running commands, rather than needing to reboot
<nacc> yeah
<TJ-> I've set up "inotifywait -m --timefmt "%H:%M:%S" --format "%T %e %f" /etc/nsswitch.conf" so I get timestamps
<TJ-> it's being read but no indication if there's a parse error; not sure about how to detect that
<TJ-> I suppose the only way is to write my own debug module of libnss and include it so it logs queries
<TJ-> !info libnss-wrapper
<ubot5> libnss-wrapper (source: nss-wrapper): NSS wrapper library. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.1.3-1 (artful), package size 26 kB, installed size 86 kB
<TJ-> aha
<nacc> fun :)
<TJ-> fab: "LD_PRELOAD=libnss_wrapper.so  NSS_WRAPPER_HOSTS=/path/to/host ./myapplication"
<TJ-> and it also supports NSS_WRAPPER_DEBUGLEVEL=ERROR|WARNING|DEBUG|TRACE
<nacc> ah that's great
<nacc> so somoene thought of it before :)
<TJ-> it seems so; now I need to find a way to reproduce the original failure with sudo so I can use it!
<nacc> yeah, i was wondering if you had a testcase already or not
<TJ-> first test I guess is to change mdns4_minimal to [NOTFOUND=continue]
<TJ-> I doubt it'll happen in a container so I'm trying a VM
<nacc> yeah
<nacc> and yeah, i think you'd need as close to a real machine env as possible
<TJ-> I'll give that a shot in the morning
<TJ-> apparently it was a fresh install of the desktop so it should be possible to recreate the same environment. The only thing I didn't find out was how the network was being configured.
<TJ-> well B**** me!!! Bug #1295229
<ubot5> bug 1295229 in nss-mdns (Ubuntu) "With 'hosts: mdns4' in nsswitch.conf, getaddrinfo() returns -5 (EAI_NODATA) when network interface is down" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1295229
<daftykins> Bind9? ;)
<nacc> TJ-: interesting that it was filed so long ago
<nacc> and no traction
<nacc> i wonder why it's not seen more commonly
<TJ-> I wonder if that's the bug that prompted [NOTFOUND=return] ... but the meaning of that was misunderstood and the maintainer meant to have it do [NOTFOUND=continue]
<TJ-> oh, no, they show it in their description.
<TJ-> nice; someones written me a testcase :)
<TJ-> I'll test against 14.04 and 16.04 now I've seen that
<TJ-> Tackle it tomorrow with some positive pointers
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-11-17
<sirru5h> Hey there everyone
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> whats your experiences on firefox 57?
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Just trying 57 out this day . so far pleantly surprised ..it is fast . However, I have yet to get translation to English on web pages to work . On all likelyhood I will go back to chromium .
<Bashing-om> pleasantly*
<lotuspsychje> kk
<lotuspsychje> i dont know about speed yet
<lotuspsychje> should be 2x faster but.. doesnt feel like it
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: I only percieve FF as a bit faster than chromium ( on SSD ) . Not enough to win me back over .
<lotuspsychje> i hear you mate
<lotuspsychje> chromium rocknrolls
<lotuspsychje> surely over xubuntu :p
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Well, I came into xubuntu from a core install/xfce4 ( if you recall ) .I did install xubuntu for troubleshooting .. and kept it .
<lotuspsychje> :p
<immu> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/11/use-ibm-plex-font-ubuntu
<ducasse> good morning, all
<immu> ducasse, goodmorning
<immu> howdi
<lotuspsychje> morning ducasse
<lotuspsychje> hi immu
<lotuspsychje> hey oerheks
<ducasse> hi lotuspsychje, getting ready for work today?
<oerheks> morning :-)
<lotuspsychje> yep
<lotuspsychje> almost weekend :p
<lotuspsychje> you guys having a good FF experience?
<oerheks> ff 57 runs fine
<lotuspsychje> 2x faster feeling?
<lotuspsychje> i still doubt a bit
<oerheks> not really feeling faster, bing works great
<oerheks> ( i use ff for bing, chrome for google )
<lotuspsychje> cool
<ducasse> \o oerheks - ff is fine here, seems faster than chromium to me
<lotuspsychje> perhaps i should test on a clean system
<lotuspsychje> ill test later on my artful
<lotuspsychje> !info firefox bionic
<ubot5> firefox (source: firefox): Safe and easy web browser from Mozilla. In component main, is optional. Version 56.0+build6-0ubuntu1 (bionic), package size 43612 kB, installed size 166642 kB
<lotuspsychje> hmm
<lotuspsychje> !info firefox artful
<ubot5> firefox (source: firefox): Safe and easy web browser from Mozilla. In component main, is optional. Version 57.0+build4-0ubuntu0.17.10.5 (artful), package size 45043 kB, installed size 171518 kB
<lotuspsychje> too early for bugging out bionic
<immu> wait and watch
<immu> i like the new look
<lotuspsychje> watch what
<immu> the old UI looked like grandma age
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> hi lordievader
<lordievader> Hey ducasse
<lordievader> How are you doing>
<oerheks> :-)
<lordievader> ?
<ducasse> gulping down the coffee? ;)
<lordievader> Hey oerheks
<oerheks> coffee is a good idea
<jink> Koffie is sowieso altijd een goed idee.
<lotuspsychje> have a nice one guys
<lordievader> Not 5 min before you are going to bed...
<oerheks> coffee in bed is not bed
<oerheks> err bad
<ducasse> have fun, lotuspsychje!
<lotuspsychje> tnx ducasse
<oerheks> making cookies and bread all day, sure it is fun
<ducasse> what kind of cookies? :)
<oerheks> dunno, we should plan a surprise visit
<EriC^^> morning all
<lordievader> Hey EriC^^
<ducasse> hi EriC^^
<EriC^^> hey lordievader
<EriC^^> hey ducasse
<EriC^^> how are you both doing?
<ducasse> having a quiet morning so far, how about you?
<lordievader> Doing good here
<EriC^^> same here, pretty quiet morning
<EriC^^> hey Bashing-om o/
<oerheks> LETS MAKE SOME NOISE!
<lordievader> oerheks: ssshhhh
<ducasse> !ding
<ubot5> dong
<immu> i like Tea chai- kadaak chai (tea/Black Tea)
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: What it be my friend ?
<EriC^^> Bashing-om: just saying hello :)
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: That too is a good thing :)
<EriC^^> :D
<immu> hello eric
<EriC^^> hey immu
<Bashing-om> Well, 'Nuff again , Yall take care \o
<immu> hey
<EriC^^> hey pauljw :)
<pauljw> hi EriC^^ :)
<pauljw> how are you today?
<oerheks> hi pauljw, sun is shining here, awesome weather
<EriC^^> good thanks, you?
<pauljw> hey oerheks :)  bit chilly and cloudy here this morning...
<pauljw> doing well thanks EriC^^
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<oerheks> heya BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hey oerheks
<BluesKaj> well the new Firefox Quantum didn't live up to expectations on my pc, chrome is still  better adapted to older machines IMV
<oerheks> ff 57 works great here, but i have read some noticed issues in speed and cpu use
<BluesKaj> especially cpu use
<daftykins> is that even with a clean profile?
<BluesKaj> a couple of addons
<daftykins> what are you seeing it do versus chrome? chrome is still notorious for resource consumption i'm sure :)
<daftykins> even here on Windows
<BluesKaj> daftykins, actually in my case FF used more cpu than chrome on the web site playing back the same video
<daftykins> o0 hmm wonder what the player was
<BluesKaj> even with hardware acceleration enabled on both
<BluesKaj> using HTML5 every'where addon on FF
<daftykins> ah well, always heard FF is a lot worse on Linux than Windows
<BluesKaj> yeah , seems so
<daftykins> no time for old hardware now, too :)
<BluesKaj> yeah, this pc has had HW improvements over the yrs , but I might be forced to look at newer technology soon
<pauljw> hey BluesKaj, daftykins :)
<daftykins> \o
<BluesKaj> hey pauljw
<pauljw> i've noticed a big reduction in cpu and memory use with ff57, but it seems slower loading pages here.
<daftykins> o0
<pauljw> it's also more difficult to determine how much cpu and mem it's really using since there are several instances of "Web Content" associated with it.
<immu> hi allll
<daftykins> \o
<pauljw> hi immu :)
<BluesKaj> yeah the best test is to run the same website video on both browsers and in my case chrome still wins with fewer buffers than FF on my crappy dsl connection, but I'm too cheap to shell out for the fiber optic cable option
<immu> how many of you all are on 16.04 LTS?
<daftykins> got a couple on it, most servers under my control are still on 14.04
<EriC^^> good ol' trusty
<immu> any reason for not moving onto 16.04
<EriC^^> had the best fitting name imo
<EriC^^> i'm on 16.04 btw
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> just too many services to rebuild without proper planning - also LTS is good until 2019, so why move sooner than you need to
<EriC^^> immu: not really, it's good
<immu> you on 16.04?
<EriC^^> yeah for a server it's definitely a hastle
<immu> EriC^^, i mean
<ducasse> if it ain't broken...
<EriC^^> immu: yeah
<immu> ducasse, daftykins i had a hunch for it :)
<EriC^^> immu: the only "bad" thing i can think about regarding 16.04 is xchat disappearing from the repos
<immu> so will you move to 18.04 EriC^^ when its comes
<immu> *out
<EriC^^> maybe, i didn't like 17.10 that much, i didn't use it a lot just a vm til now
<EriC^^> it feels like a 'fake' unity to me
<immu> yup to me too EriC^^
<immu> its just to easy the shock of moving to gnome
<immu> ease
<immu> i am on hexchat
<pauljw> EriC^^, hexchat replaced xchat and is virtually identical and supported.
<immu> preferred IRC chat app
<EriC^^> pauljw: i know, i tried using it, god knows i did, i even tried using the xchat font plug in and stuff
<pauljw> oh, i didn't realize there were issues, it just worked here for me.
<EriC^^> not really issues, it just aesthetically didn't look like xchat in the end
<pauljw> ah, i see, guess i'm not that perceptive... :)
<ducasse> i thought hexchat was just an actively maintained fork?
<EriC^^> when i like something, i have a hard time letting go i guess, i sucked on my thumb til i was like 12
<BluesKaj> that's another reason why i use kde/plasma.....konversation
<immu> yeah i understand EriC^^ i am so with you on it, i still like and use unity
<pauljw> that's funny EriC^^ , i did too, till i discovered girls...
<EriC^^> :D
<immu> can we install a newer kernel on LTS releases
<EriC^^> yeah there are the hwe stacks and mainline kernels for the more recent ones
<immu> how many like gnome over unity?
<immu> which kernel version are you running?
<EriC^^> the stock one 4.4.0-98 i think
<immu> back
<immu> i didn't how i quit
<immu> EriC^^, hi what happ every one went quiet?
 * BluesKaj has bite to eat
<immu> how do u do that @BluesKaj ?
<BluesKaj> immu, it 's juat an "expression" which i misquoted, it should read "has a bite to eat"
<BluesKaj> juat=just
<immu> but how did you do it that's what i want to know
<BluesKaj> a bite to eat means a small amount of food and in my case it was some bran in a bowl with milk
<immu> * BluesKaj has bite to eat | this i want to know
<BluesKaj> sorry immu if you don't understand "expression" , thought i made it clear
<immu> i understood what you meant, but the way you typed it that's what i want to know, i have seen others also do it
<daftykins> immu: "/me <something>" is the above
 * daftykins <something>
<daftykins> :)
<immu> tnx daftykins and BluesKaj  :)
<immu> immu /me test
<daftykins> no nickname, just start the line with /me
 * immu <test>
<immu> aaah
 * immu <dancing with joy after knowing it>
<immu> lol
<immu> brb
<nicomachus> immu gets a little excitable doesn't he
<ducasse> daftykins, you've created a monster!
<daftykins> ;D
<daftykins> you'll see it every other line now
<daftykins> i like the way he's still using <> too
<BluesKaj> hehe
<daftykins> it's the same as when you give commands in " " and the folks still type it
<ducasse> this Azureus person in #u keeps showing up every day begging for help with the same crappy hardware, then either ignore the advice they are given or being unable to understand it due to language problems. usually a different nick, though.
<daftykins> ugh i despised those users, get the same thing in #kodi with these idiots trying to use Kodi on museum pieces
<ducasse> this is an acer es1-132
<daftykins> looks like a baytrail celeron
<daftykins> and what do they want to do, take it to the moon? :
<daftykins> :)
<BluesKaj> my brain wasn't cluing in to what he was asking, after daftykins told him the /username thing I felt abit dense, guess my days dealing with people who's first language isn't english has deteriorated since my parents passed
<ducasse> daftykins: do a couple of searches on model + linux - it's a known bad model
<ducasse> as in, nothing works ootb :)
<daftykins> eh i was just looking at the hardware straight off
<daftykins> lawl
<daftykins> BluesKaj: i was totally with you for 80% of the way, had no idea what he was getting at :)
<daftykins> benefit of fresh eyes
<BluesKaj> right
<ducasse> me neither, "you want to know how to _eat_?" :)
<BluesKaj> thinking this old HP AMD cpu is beginning to get too old, maybe a new mobo, cpu and PSU kit might be in order in the spring
<daftykins> was that an Athlon X2?
<BluesKaj> amd 52000+ cpu
<BluesKaj> err 5200+
<BluesKaj> dual core
<daftykins> mmm Athlon 64 X2, ouchie
<ducasse> lotus has something similar, doesn't he?
<daftykins> yep can't be far off
<ducasse> must be very patient, running gnome on that with 2g ram...
<BluesKaj> yeah Athlon X2, 9yrs old npw
<daftykins> 2GB D:
<BluesKaj> 6G ram, samsung ssd, nvidia gt218
<BluesKaj> crappy interent, seems to be getting slower ....gotta convince the wife we need fiber internet
<nicomachus> BluesKaj: it's worth the investment.
<nicomachus> even though I never seem to actually get gigabit speeds...
<nacc> (pet peeve -- it's not an investment)
<nacc> you get nothing directly financially back from it :)
<BluesKaj> nicomachus, it's fine service but it suffers from crfeep chatges
<BluesKaj> creep
<nacc> you can say it's worth giving the giant companies more money than they deserve
<ducasse> BluesKaj: remind her how much money you make giving support here ;)
<nicomachus> eh, right now I'm getting 913.36 down and 541.52 up
<nicomachus> nacc: it's an investment if I can transfer large files for work faster. :D
<BluesKaj> one signs for a 150/mos bundle and within 2 yrs itr's over 300
<BluesKaj> err 300
<nicomachus> I've got a 3 year contract, luckily
<nicomachus> $143 for fiber internet and TV
<BluesKaj> 200 damn it
<daftykins> O_O
<BluesKaj>  nicomachus that'snice
<daftykins> that's horrific money, even factoring in conversion
<nicomachus> It would be $120 if I could get Google Fiber where I live
<nicomachus> but the building didn't want to ppay for the install
<BluesKaj> the bundle incudes tv service
<nicomachus> yep. HBO included free for 3 years too. I feel like I got a good deal.
<nicomachus> They gave me a router/ap with 5ghz disabled though.
<nicomachus> but I just hooked up my AP
<daftykins> so it's actually in there?
<daftykins> surprising if nobody has worked out the way to enable and documented it
<nicomachus> it's there, they said it just doesn't have the "necessary firmware upgrades".
<nicomachus> whatever that means.
<nicomachus> they also require me to use their AT&T DNS
<nicomachus> but using my own AP lets me point DNS requests to my raspberry pi running pi-hole
<daftykins> i'm in a bind for a clients setup where i want to combine two OSs into one server but the hardware is too old to support PCI passthrough :/
<ducasse> i pay somewhere around Â£30-35 for 250mbps, tv and hbo nordic, no dns silliness :) why would you have to use theirs - do they do dns filtering?
<BluesKaj> bbiab
<daftykins> nicomachus: do you mean the ISP router prevents reconfiguration, or does it genuinely stop you querying say, Google DNS if configured on a device behind it?
<nicomachus> it doesn't allow you to change the DNS configuration
<daftykins> yeah that's not too big a deal then
<nicomachus> yea, so pointing my AP at the rpi for DNS requests is an easy fix.
<nicomachus> should be unnecessary, but easy.
<daftykins> the AP handles DHCP? o0
<nicomachus> no, pi-hole does!
<daftykins> so in that case the AP does nothing to do with DNS or telling devices that connect to it anything :)
<nicomachus> https://screenshots.firefox.com/RfrtuLqyf17BAsft/107.203.208.128
<nicomachus> I'm curious if that link works ^
<daftykins> it does
<nicomachus> cool stuff.
<nicomachus> ff57's built-in screenshot tool
<daftykins> think it was more your choice of phrasing than the mechanics of how you run things that i was confused by though :)
<daftykins> TJ-: welcome back \o
<TJ-> Hmmm; just tried to install 17.10 desktop in a VM. It wants 8.3GB just to install!
 * TJ- waves
<daftykins> 8.3GB O_O
<nicomachus> daftykins: that sounds pretty typical.
<daftykins> lots of RAM allocated so swap included?
<TJ-> Not very impressed with the Gnome Shell thing either; no categories of applications in the "show applications" chooser and many entries are unrecognisable because the names are ellipsed and  no popup long-form if the pointer hovers over them either. E.g. currently looking at 6 of "LibreOffice ..." !!!
<nicomachus> TJ-: just use rofi
<daftykins> it's an odd year, so i'm turned off by both releases :)
<TJ-> daftykins: 3GiB RAM.. thing is, it should direct the user to do a custom disk config, not just offer to Quit without any explanation or even link to help wiki
<daftykins> oh ok it didn't even do the old "guided/manual/entire disk" step?
<TJ-> I'm in the 'Try Ubuntu' session right now; will see what I can do to hack the thing into submission. I swear modern 'developers' have absolutely no concept of usabilty nor conservation of resources!
<TJ-> daftykins: no, this is the first step after Language
<daftykins> ouch
<TJ-> No very user friendly
<TJ-> Reminds of a Hacker News comment thread I was reading earlier today, about Microsoft releasing an update to the Office Equation Editor, and some bright spark had spotted that they actually shipped a binary patch that altered about 40 bytes with new machine-code (assembly instructions) in the installed binary. Lots of dev's shouting about oh, MS must have lost the source-code and how terrible it was.
<TJ-> Then someone pointed out that parts of equation-editor are binary blobs inside Office documents and therefore the entry points for functions couldn't be changed, and others figured out the original 80-odd bytes had been reduced to very effecient 60-odd, and another hacker re-wrote it to use just 32 :) ... See... that's PROGRAMMING!
<TJ-> The point being, a rebuild from source would change the function entry points and break backward compatibility, but a binary patch won't
<daftykins> so it just leaves more blank space?
<TJ-> Yes, and fixes a bug to boot :)
<TJ-> Just insert No-Ops instructions in the bytes that are no longer used. Classic patching technique
<TJ-> Hmmm... 17.10 Try... desktop has gone to a big clock. I'm clicking all over but can't get back to the desktop; any ideas?
<daftykins> ctrl do anything? virt tech 'engagement' not made?
<TJ-> pointer is working; i can pull down the 'power' task-bar icon sub-menu and so on
<TJ-> This reminds me pointedly why I dropped Gnome/Unity many years ago!
<TJ-> Tried hitting all manor of keys too but no sign it is reacting. CPU usage is low so it's not spinning on something
<ducasse> i read somewhere you need to 'drag' down or up the lock screen like on a touch device
<daftykins> ugh
<TJ-> haha... thanks... I'll try that... once I've figure out how to wake the thing up! I pressed the || (pause button) on the sub-menu that shows up when clicking on the sound icon top-right and it seems to have suspended the VM! Now I cannot figure out from the VM how to simulate a power-on. Tried all the obvious things, including stopping/restarting the VM itself
<ducasse> not tried it myself, though, but it sounds like a move the gnome devs would make
<TJ-> It's terrible! what idiot thinks using the symbol for pausing sound/video, on a menu that includes a sound volume control, should suspend the thing!? for that matter, why does the power icon and sound icon share the same sub-menu!?
<daftykins> those sound so ridiculous as to almost make me want to download it and see for myself
<TJ-> daftykins: I am only doing it to try to reproduce that issue yesterday where sudo freezes when system is offline
<daftykins> *nod*
<TJ-> But this is plain silly! Can't find a way to have 'virt manager' send a power-resume event - only has options (in GUI) for typical Alt+Ctrl keypresses etc
<TJ-> Common theme here.. RedHat employs the primary devs!
<TJ-> I used to admire RH engineering but the last few years... not so much
<ducasse> daftykins: </me points thumb at TJ- and whispers> - he'll blow any second now
<ducasse> ;)
<nicomachus> 11:01 < ipatrol> Of course, my install is littered with PPAs because I have a
<nicomachus> frequent need for bleeding-edge software
<nicomachus> 11:02 < ipatrol> I'd probably be on Arch if I didn't have enough headaches
<nacc> stupid.
<ducasse> ...but he's still on 16.10
<nicomachus> already
<nicomachus> I popped in, read that, popped out
<daftykins> 'frequent need' ? :)
<daftykins> frequent need for problems more like
<nicomachus> he keeps making less and less sense.
<nacc> yep, full of horse doodoo
<ducasse> it's friday again, sure enough - the crazies are coming for the weekend
 * nacc adds to the ignore
<BluesKaj> wait tiltomorrow , there'll be trolls and nutters galore
 * nacc is looking forward to being out of the office for the next while, even if it will be stressful. Won't have to think about #ubuntu.
<daftykins> :)
<TJ-> well! ... it won't wake up even using "virsh dompmwakeup"
<leftyfb> oh right, the whole shutting down the last week of the year
<leftyfb> that was kinda nice
<nacc> leftyfb: i'm out before that
<TJ-> nacc: swap with you! :D
<leftyfb> ah
<nacc> TJ-: if you want to deal with the stress of an international adoption for me :)
<TJ-> nacc: easy... compared to working around RH bugs!
<nicomachus> did he leave?
<TJ-> OK, so, in Virt Manager, powered-off the VM. Restarted it, drops to UEFI shell... why? Because the ISO I'd connected during configuration has been dropped from the config (presumably on the assumption it was only used to install and power-off means no longer needed)... but no link to the original ISO remains. Surely it's obvious that in managing VMs this way the user might need/want to at least know
<TJ-> where the image was installed from?
<leftyfb> i've noticed that
<immu> https://launchpad.net/~dale-f-beaudoin
<nacc> immu: ?
<immu> team or guy which will work towards having a separate unity7 desktop or distro
<immu> https://launchpad.net/~unity7maintainers
<immu> for those who want to see a seperate Unit7 based distro spin
<TJ-> OK, stuck with the 17.10 desktop clock again!
<TJ-> aha! I randomly hit keys and it cleared it. I wish I'd checked which key!
<immu> how many would wish to see a seperate unity7 based flavour of ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<ducasse> my my, lotuspsychje is here! wb :)
<lotuspsychje> yayy weekend!
<BluesKaj> hey lotuspsychje
 * ducasse blows his kazoo
<lotuspsychje> how was your day ducasse lol
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
<TJ-> OK, stuck at the U.G desktop 'screensaver' clock again and cannot find the random key I pressed last time to unlock it! Any ideas?
<lotuspsychje> hey TJ-
 * TJ- waves
<lotuspsychje> gnome has a screensaver?
<lotuspsychje> !info gnome-screensaver
<ubot5> gnome-screensaver (source: gnome-screensaver): GNOME screen saver and locker. In component main, is optional. Version 3.6.1-7ubuntu6 (artful), package size 94 kB, installed size 436 kB
<lotuspsychje> this one TJ- ?
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: had a good day here, getting troll-y now. you?
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/11/ubuntu-unity-remix
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: nice day at work about to watch the voice of flanders
<ducasse> will you be participating next year? ;)
<lotuspsychje> miauw sure
 * lotuspsychje gets another beer to smear throat
<lotuspsychje> have a nice evening guys, tv time
<immu> http://people.ubuntu.com/~twocamels/archive/
<immu> ubuntu-unity-amd64.iso
<immu> hi all EriC^^ i am on unity7 on 17.10
<immu> ducasse, lordievader
<immu> ubuntu feels so much faster with Unity7.x
<daftykins> versus which desktop environment?
<immu> gnome
<immu> the 3.26.1
<daftykins> oh so 17.10 default? not seen it yet
<immu> meaning daftykins
<nacc> unity7 wasn't the discussio anyways!
<nacc> it was about unity8
<immu> yeah i am on 17.10 but running Unity7 as DE
<nacc> gnome works great, i have no issues with it, and have not since 16.04 and i hate unity
<nacc> don't force that garbage down my throat :)
<oerheks> wobbly windows
<oerheks> i need it, so..
<nacc> lol
<nacc> i was into that ... a while ago
<nacc> and then realized it was nonise
<nacc> *noise
<oerheks> well, it is like flightsimulator or a race game, non-serious cpu use
<immu> Unity7 is the best DE ever
<TJ-> same here nacc was into GUIs... then realised they're noise. console rules :D
<nacc> yeah, i don't want my DE to be a game
<daftykins> space invaders!
<TJ-> Unity was worse than Gnome (that's saying something!) on my laptop's primary config
<daftykins> dodge the angry processes to keep them running
<nacc> also I need every precious cpu cycle i can get when i'm doing builds locally
<nacc> TJ-: same here, which is why i switched to ubuntu gnome immediately
<TJ-> nacc: ahhh... I use distcc and hand them off to other systems :)
<oerheks> builds of bitcoins?
<nacc> oerheks: ubuntu pacakges
<oerheks> oh :-D
<nacc> oerheks: for your consumption :)
<nacc> (well source packages)
<nacc> also i am the maintainer of git-ubuntu, and all of htat work
<nacc> importing a source package repository takes a lot of cpu and disk (mostly disk)
<oerheks> yeah, i read you sometimes in #ubuntu-hardening
<TJ-> nacc: I'm investigating switching to MAAS for managing my entire estate from my custom scripts since I discovered it even supports my power CDUs, so it can do the power on/off of nodes as required.
<nacc> oerheks: yeah :)
<TJ-> although having sat in the #maas channel for a few weeks, and seen the number of bug reports relating to obvious situations the dev's should have coded for, I'm holding off.
<nacc> TJ-: yeah, my team works closesly with the maas folks
<nacc> TJ-: it's supposed to be nice, but i do't have enough hardware to deal with it
<nacc> although it can do lxd and vm provisioning
<nacc> so might be worth setting it up just to manage my older/larger desktop
<TJ-> nacc: yes, that's what attracted me... being able to control bare-metal through container bring-up
<nacc> TJ-: yeah
<nacc> TJ-: the idea is sound. I think the newer releases of maas are better
<nacc> and i think they are snappinng it as well
<nacc> so fixes are comig out quickly
<TJ-> right now I've a bunch of flexible shell scripts that run on a raspi ... not sure the maas controllers would be OK on that
<nacc> TJ-: not sure either
<TJ-> I can go from 0 watts power draw to several KW in a few seconds right now (raspi is battery powered, solar/wind trickle charging)
<nacc> heh
<TJ-> as long as the router has a link I can bring up and launch jobs from anywhere and know the hardware will power off once the jobs are done
<TJ-> still trying to figure out how to tie ubiquity's hands and let me install :)
<TJ-> I hate software that thinks it knows better than me
<nacc> TJ-: have you tried subiquity out yet?
<nacc> TJ-: or possibly, have you tried just using cloud images and cloud-init?
<TJ-> not for launching from a VM for desktop no. I have been meaning to try server-ubiquity
<nacc> yeah, i know there's a lot of time goign into it, but i also haven't really looked at it
<nacc> it's all being done by foundations right now and not the server team, oddly :)
<TJ-> well makes sense; I used to hack on ubiquity and it's a code-base you really have to be 'inside' to work on.
<TJ-> without a deep understanding of d-i too, you're toast
<TJ-> there are so many workarounds and hacks in there too
<nacc> TJ-: true true
<nacc> TJ-: oh you might also be interested in the new minimal cloud images
<nacc> not sure if they are being published yet
<nacc> but that might also be handy for your env, depending
<TJ-> how much more minimal can they get?!
<nacc> TJ-: oh very
<nacc> the cloud images are closer to a server install
<nacc> the minimal will be ... fully trimmed, i thinkn
<TJ-> my container images are already extremely small; not sure what more could be removed from them
<nacc> TJ-: do you have your own images?
<nacc> TJ-: or are you using ubuntu: or images: ?
<TJ-> my own images
<nacc> ah sure
<TJ-> for bug testing I pull ubuntu: images
<nacc> right, these are the 'official' cloud images that are getting minified
<nacc> (i believe)
<TJ-> they should be around 250MB
<Ben64> how can i build stuff for my own ppa? having problems with dependencies and the documentation seems to be lacking
<Bashing-om> Ben64: Guys in #ubuntuforums have there own . might get some pointers there .
<TJ-> Bashing-om: what are you trying to do? usually I test build in a local pbuilder or schroot
<TJ-> ooops
<TJ-> Ben64: what are you trying to do? usually I test build in a local pbuilder or schroot
<Ben64> trying to get a newer version of qemu into xenial
<TJ-> only after that works do I dput it to LP
<Ben64> pbuilder complains about dependencies, but i don't know how to tell it to use a newer version
<TJ-> can you show the log messages?
<Ben64> i'll have to re-run it
<TJ-> Ben64: if underlying packages have been updated too, they need installing into the pbuilder at build time
<TJ-> is that what you've had to do?
<Ben64> pbuilder wouldn't take multiple files as input
<Ben64> but i'm sure i'm not doing it right
<TJ-> I wrote a script that automates it, a hook, let me see if i can find it
<TJ-> here's my original write-up/instructions/scripts http://tjworld.net/wiki/Linux/Ubuntu/Packages/CreatingPbuilderVariations
 * nacc highly recomends sbuild over pbuilder, tbh
<nacc> and/or use `git ubuntu build` :)
<TJ-> yes, my instructions are 10 years+ old (but still work)
<nacc> Ben64: tbh, updating qemu into an older distro is a pain
<nacc> Ben64: the dependencies are hellish
<nacc> Ben64: you need a fair number of updated libs
<nacc> although someone else asked something else recently
<nacc> if you point your ppa to use backports you might be able to backportpackage it
<nacc> i do not recommend doingn it on your own system unless you don't want to use it for anything else for a while
<nacc> TJ-: yeah, some people love pbuilder. I found it a pain to setup. sbuild is too, but you just do it once, and our team has a relatively straightforward method to do it
<nacc> LXD is what `git ubuntu build` ends up using
<nacc> similar but not exactly like what the buildd do for actual building of packages
<TJ-> interestingly, in my article, I mention i was building KVM in the "Cross-compiling architecture problems" section :) So I must have been doing what Ben's doing
<Ben64> for a bit i grabbed artful's qemu but that was ... difficult to undo
<TJ-> thank goodness i cannot remember all this stuff I've done :)
<nacc> TJ-: :)
<nacc> Ben64: what's your end goal?
<Ben64> to just have a newer qemu, so ryzen works better in the VM
<nacc> Ben64: do you use virt-manager/libvirt ?
<Ben64> yeah
<nacc> Ben64: yeah, so you'll have to build that too, i think
<nacc> (iirc because libvirt knows about qemu's cli syntax and when it changes)
<nacc> and 2.5 may not be compatible to 2.10
<nacc> Ben64: so ... do you want the version in artful?
<Ben64> or maybe i can wait till april and just go to 18.04 :)
<nacc> heh
<nacc> yeah, that'd be 'easiest'
<Ben64> i just figured artful is the latest
<nacc> Ben64: ok, i'd just try a backportpacakge
<Ben64> from what i've seen, 2.6+ works with ryzen
<TJ-> Ben64:  you could try running 17.10 as a privileged LXD container :)
<Ben64> i get a bunch of cpu errors on my vm now, and something crashes my computer on occasion, but i think that's a GPU thing
<nacc> Ben64: backportpackage -d xenial -u ppa:... qemu -s artful
<nacc> Ben64: that *may* fail, but it will probably fail due to debhelper
<nacc> which is in xenial-backports, so you'd need to tweak the ppa deps first
<nacc> it might still fail then, but it should be somehwat debuggable (just more debs you need to backport first)
<nacc> a PPA will use itself for its deps when it builds
<Ben64> what's the -u ppa:...
<nacc> Ben64: a ppa url
<nacc> eg. ppa:nacc/php
<nacc> is my php ppa
<nacc> (if it existed)
<nacc> Ben64: imo, much easier to let launchpad deal with the actual building
<TJ-> not using the ppa:~tj/php syntax now?
<TJ-> I loved my little squiggle
<nacc> TJ-: i don't think you ever needed it, at least not i the last 2 years
<nacc> https://launchpad.net/~nacc/+archive/ubuntu/dlmtransition e.g.
<nacc> the recommended form is no ~
<TJ-> ahh
<nacc> (as the field after ppa: before / is definnitionally a username
<nacc> (where user can also be a group)
<Ben64> ooh, backportpackage seems fun
<nacc> Ben64: yeah it's really powerful :)
<nacc> Ben64: it cann in turn build locally before uploading (e.g., usign pbuilder or sbuild)
<TJ-> I've figured out how to hack ubiquity even when it wants to refuse to install. But it's on the squashfs r/o file-system, so I've now got to use overlayfs with a tmpfs to be able to modify the file! ... it's Turtles all the way down
<nacc> TJ-: you can bind mount files in place
<nacc> TJ-: would that help you?
<nacc> TJ-: i learned that trick recently for hacking an as-installed snap
<TJ-> good idea.. for a single file yes maybe... I may be editing more than one though :)
<nacc> (which is mounted readonly)
<nacc> TJ-: yeah, it depends on usage
<nacc> it ends up resembling what you are doing anyways
<nacc> given a ro base, but a rw shim on top
<TJ-> I may as well use overlay since it'll map over everything then
<nacc> yep
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-11-18
<TJ-> Oh I need to swear!! with the overlay on /usr "sudo vi /path/to/file" gives "sudo: effective uid is not 0, is /usr/bin/sudo on a file system with the 'nosuid' option set or an NFS file system without root privileges?"
<TJ-> Why always me!?!?
<TJ-> and of course now I cannot remount or unmount it!
<TJ-> better! "You need at least 8.3GB disk space..." "This computer has only 3.2GB" ... "Continue" button :)
<Bashing-om> TJ-: ^^ Because you go where no other has gone before ??
<TJ-> Well, if you include the Gnome Shell issue where the taskbar sound icon brings up a dialog with a volume slier and a pause button at the bottom, which when pressed, shuts the PC down without warning!!
<Ben64> ok so i made a key, gave it to ubuntu, they emailed me a message encrypted, but now i can't decrypt because gpg can't find the secret key??
<TJ-> Ben64: you need to tell gpg2 where the private key is
<Ben64> oh, gpg2
<Ben64> the instructions say gpg
<TJ-> gpg is the older version; they're mostly the same but gpg2 puts secret keys in a different sub-dir under ~/.gnupg/ I think
<Ben64> heh, now backportpackage gives me the same error, it's using gpg instead of gpg2
<TJ-> should be fine. how did you create the key originally?
<TJ-> with gpg, or gpg2 ?
<Ben64> with the "passwords and encryption" application that launchpad told me to
<TJ-> which is SeaHorse I think; and should be using gpg2 I'd have thought. Check it's config options it might indicate which secret keyring it's using
<Ben64> not a whole lot of option here
<TJ-> darn! stuck on this 17.10 liveISO desktop digital clock again! anyone know which key press(es) are supposed to send it away!?
<Ben64> TJ-: haven't seen that on my 17.10 vm
<TJ-> it keeps coming up in the 'Try Ubuntu' session if I leave it about 5 minutes or os
<TJ-> earlier I hit keys at random and it went away but I've no idea which key did it :D
<TJ-> mouse doesn't help, but the taskbar is still interactive at top of screen
<TJ-> aha, 3 hits in Esc did it this time
<TJ-> so intuitive - not!
<TJ-> I do not believe it - 10 years on - and still the installer does not support creating LVM when doing manual partitioning!!
<daftykins> :S
<TJ-> Oh and now it tells me it's Debian, not Ubuntu :D
<TJ-> I let it do an automatic LVM install, and it came up with a "Force UEFI installation" dialog question - not sure why, it booted in UEFI mode! Part of the long message says "... If you continue to install Debian in UEFI mode, it might be difficutl to reboot the machine into any BIOS-mode ..."
<TJ-> hmm, and it's used 512MB for the EFI SP!! it needs no more than 64MB and that's pushing it
<Ben64> https://gist.github.com/Ben64/4e0b1ee50df41393f40a810f16d8a96b
<Ben64> why.
<Ben64> TJ-: oh i had that problem
<Ben64> it wouldn't let me press anything
<Ben64> Filesystem      Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
<Ben64> /dev/nvme0n1p1  240M   512  240M   1% /boot/efi
<Ben64> dunno why mine did 240
<TJ-> that's more like it! I've just checked and the automatic partitioner hasn't created an EFI SP at all, well not by GUID anyhow, it's a regular Windows '0700'
<TJ-> Ben64: "gpg --import a" -- the option you use is 'unused' according to the man-page
<Ben64> ooh
<Ben64> outdated guides
<Ben64> gpg: skipped "ben64 <ben64@ben64>": secret key not available
<Ben64> well, what the hell
<Ben64> gpg can use the key now, but still fails when doing backportpackage
<TJ-> typical, I think you've caught my bug :D everything-goes-wrong-itus
<TJ-> OK, so got past that, got the country map prompt, move on, and get a dialog error "ERROR!!" "Invalid argument during seek for write on /dev/mapper/ubuntu-vg-home"
<Ben64> have to put DEBSIGN_KEYID=<id> into ~/.devscripts
<TJ-> oh, yes! Mine's been there so long I forgot!
<Ben64> one of these days i'll start updating old docs on ubuntu wiki
<daftykins> might as well make it a new year's resolution ;D
<Ben64> heh maybe
<Ben64> might be flying to china january, airports seem like a good place to do that stuff
<daftykins> ooh, holiday?
<nacc> Ben64: yeah devscript is a set-it-and-forget-it for most :/
<TJ-> I've never hit so many errors in my life! well, maybe! This is why I always install new releases using deboostrap... takes 10 minutes!
<daftykins> D:
<Ben64> thats why i hate upgrading
<Ben64> there's always something
<TJ-> I've never had problems with upgrades; I almost always get issues with installers though
<Ben64> still have some tweaks to the theme to do
<Ben64> right now there's only 1px on the border to resize windows
<TJ-> I've given up on it, wasted a day just trying to get a VM installed from the ISO to work on the nsswitch/mdns offline name resolving bug
<Ben64> what that bug?
<TJ-> that I really hated when they introduced it - I had an argument with the designer responsible originally over it
<TJ-> On hidpi screens even with a hi-res mouse it's hard to grab the edge; with a laptop touchpad it's impossible
<TJ-> bug #1295229   still affects 17.10; we had a user in yesterday with it
<ubot5> bug 1295229 in nss-mdns (Ubuntu) "With 'hosts: mdns4' in nsswitch.conf, getaddrinfo() returns -5 (EAI_NODATA) when network interface is down" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1295229
<TJ-> causing "sudo xxxx" commands to hang for several minutes because localhost name resolving fails
<Ben64> oh, not the problem i had last night
<Ben64> everything was resolving to 10.0.0.1 for a bit
<TJ-> is that your subnet?
<Ben64> my local network is 192.168.1.0/24
<Ben64> made no sense
<TJ-> so you use upstream DNS servers from your ISP?
<TJ-> s/so/do/
<Ben64> i use 8.8.8.8 8.8.4.4
<Ben64> those still worked, dnsmasq was doing something weird
<TJ-> weird; I've seen misconfigured upstream resolvers return the same IP for all lookups once
<Ben64> i don't know enough (anything) about dnsmasq to diagnose it, just threw 8.8.8.8 into /etc/resolv.conf and said good enough
<Ben64> i think i had the same problem on my laptop last year too
<Ben64> must be something with xenial
<Ben64> Launchpad PPA no_reply@launchpad.net via canonical.com
<Ben64> Rejected: Unable to identify 'ben64':<ben64@ben64> in launchpad
<Ben64> yep, definitely got everything-goes-wrong-itus
<TJ-> the email address doesn't match your ubuntu id
<TJ-> (used on launchpad)
<Ben64> i used the same address on both
<Ben64> oh i need DEBEMAIL set : /
<TJ-> hehehe... baptism of fire
<Ben64> Launchpad PPA no_reply@launchpad.net via canonical.com
<Ben64> 6:04 PM (1 minute ago) to me  Accepted: OK: qemu_2.10+dfsg-0ubuntu3.1~ubuntu16.04.1~ppa1.dsc
<Ben64> everything's coming up milhouse
<TJ-> finally...!
<TJ-> 23:56:21        Ben64 | ooh, backportpackage seems fun
<daftykins> that could be misinterpreted!
<TJ-> so ... a little over 2 hours :)
<TJ-> and now you have to wait for it to build
<Ben64> :D
<Ben64> dunno where it plans on getting the dependencies
<TJ-> if it's backport it should fetch them from the later release
<TJ-> i think that's the entire point of it
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
<EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
<EriC^^> whats up?
<lotuspsychje> chilling
<lotuspsychje> and coffee :p
<lotuspsychje> visiting friends later
<EriC^^> cool
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: what your upto?
<EriC^^> just woke up
<EriC^^> morning ducasse o/
<ducasse> good morning :)
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
<ducasse> morning, lotus
<lotuspsychje> 30min early to sync with my gf lol
<lotuspsychje> thats new
<ducasse> sync?
<EriC^^> heh
<lotuspsychje> you always wakeup same time as my gf ducasse
<lotuspsychje> but not today
<ducasse> oh, i've been up for an hour or so - my cat wants her breakfast served around 7 in the morning and wakes me up :)
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> morning Nokaji
<Nokaji> lotuspsychje: I completely agree :)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> have a nice1 guys
<EriC^^> does anyone know if i can leave pancake paste over night in the refridgerator and use it the next day?
<EriC^^> (it's actually crepe, so it has like 3 eggs)
<EriC^^> seems ok on google, thanks anyways
<Bashing-om> 'Nuff - a pause for that cause - Good Nite \o
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<BluesKaj> hi pauljw, ducasse, immu
<pauljw> hey BluesKaj :)
<ducasse> \o BluesKaj
<immu> hey BluesKaj pauljw ducasse whats up
<pauljw> hi immu, not much going on here.  how are you today?
<immu> i am stressed because of my crazy neighbor, who keeps compailing about any nose we make outside our apartment
<pauljw> heheh, this is why i live in the country.  closest neighbor is about 1/4 mile away.
<immu> she called the cops and also complained to our real estate agency
<daftykins> hmm well are you making a noise outside?
<pauljw> wb
<immu> daftykins, by noise means normal walking, talking and closing door, that crazy lady leave all alone, and plays tv whole day, you see her in person of how uncultured she is and a total douche bag
<daftykins> hrmm
<daftykins> EriC^^: \o
<EriC^^> hey daftykins o/
<pauljw> o/
<immu> she wants pin drop silence, how can you achieve that?
<immu> bitch
<immu> brb
<EriC^^> hey pauljw :)
<pauljw> hi EriC^^ :)
<daftykins> TV headphones :D
<Nokaji> can someone remind me the IRC command to query a channel, I'm trying to see nickserv? type info for when this channel was created etc
<EriC^^> /chanserv info #channel
<Nokaji> Ah, EriC^^ to the rescue again :)
<EriC^^> :)
<Nokaji> I'm guessing it must be server specific because I didn't spot 'CHANSERV' when doing a general "/help" command - not a biggie anyway, was just thinking this is a new channel
<daftykins> correct
<Nokaji> I've finally had the sense to google "chanserv commands"
<Nokaji> that stuff works in other roomsbut not so much here
<Nokaji> obviously some protection racket going on
<Nokaji> or some black majicke afoot
<EriC^^> it works here
<EriC^^> says created 5 years ago
<Nokaji> interesting ... I tried 2/3 other rooms .. maybe finger trouble then
<EriC^^> maybe it's your client
<Nokaji> my client is a little odd, it doesn't always show me all the rooms other people are in unless I'm in the same rooms as them
<EriC^^> mine does the same, i think it's a freenode thing
<EriC^^> btw it might be that /chanserv doesnt work but /msg chanserv works
<Nokaji> I tried a few permutations, no joy in this room whatsoever but no problems elsewhere
<daftykins> Nokaji: that's not the client, it's likely a user mode for privacy
<Nokaji> daftykins: perhaps ... . and I use it too rarely to see ... but different clients have produced very differnet results from memory
<BluesKaj> konversation client whois shows which chat's a nick is using
<BluesKaj> don't think it's freenode
<BluesKaj> err chats
<daftykins> you might not see private chans too
<Nokaji> using Hexchat here, formally pigeon & others
<Nokaji> formerly *
<immu> another hexchat user here
<immu> why did everyone go silent,? all oke
<daftykins> just been gaming
<daftykins> https://1drv.ms/v/s!AsNlU9fvqb7thCqQLyDXRSXWIyTp
<daftykins> https://1drv.ms/v/s!AsNlU9fvqb7thCtTNXLIsB8hvI56
<daftykins> finally ticked that one off :>
<pauljw> gaming...  you do the weirdest things with your computer... :D
<daftykins> haha, that's the xbox one there
<daftykins> these days they let you upload screenshots and recordings direct, brave times
<immu> cool game daftykins? are you on Windows?
<daftykins> i am, but i only use onedrive to get those videos from my xbox
<immu> ahaa tell me more about it daftykins ?
<immu> Windows ----- Onedrive ----Xbox?
<daftykins> err well you have an xbox account, which is now known as a 'microsoft account' providing possibly 5GB free storage on their cloud service OneDrive, when you want to share screenshots or videos like the above, that's the service you upload them to so you can look at them on the PC or share them
<immu> so you use xbox to record games video and upload them directly from the game to the onedrive cloud? and then use onedrive to share those videos here
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> i could have also streamed my game live on twitch.tv
<immu> i am not satisfied until i have a answer best to my understanding
<immu> its a itch thing
<daftykins> there are definitely a lot of services out there nowadays so it's easy to get buried under them all
<immu> but Microsoft provides complete integration to do such stuff
<daftykins> yeah, but they're not always the sensible choice
<Nokaji> curioisty - it is what keeps us young
<Nokaji> complacency killed the cat
<pauljw> that's pretty cool daftykins, i didn't know that about xbox.
<pauljw> my daughter wants a PlayStation, which she can have as soon as she gets a paying job and saves up for...
<daftykins> oh dear, you'll quickly discover that they'll eat through your data then given the modern console wants to be online and updated, then games can be 50GB+ these days
<daftykins> buying on disc isn't even of huge benefit as most of the time it installs and wants to download half that again in updates :)
<immu> good reminder
<pauljw> oh boy
<immu> brb
<Nokaji> I've found something incredibly off-topic
<Nokaji> read the subtitles to see why this man was arrested (toggle 'c' on my computer) - https://youtu.be/kv5HN7V62hA?t=2056
<Nokaji> 34m 24s ... read for 3 seconds
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-11-19
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> dead calm this morning
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/11/ambiance-theme-download-ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> !info glances
<ubot5> glances (source: glances): Curses-based monitoring tool. In component universe, is extra. Version 2.10-2 (artful), package size 177 kB, installed size 1118 kB
<lotuspsychje> lets try that
<ducasse> hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
<lotuspsychje> cool toy
<lotuspsychje> https://nicolargo.github.io/glances/
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
<EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> dead in main :p
<EriC^^> yeah
<oerheks> morning :-)
<EriC^^> morning oerheks :)
<ducasse> \o oerheks, EriC^^
<lotuspsychje> hey oerheks
<lotuspsychje> https://news.bitcoin.com/
<EriC^^> hey ducasse o/
<lotuspsychje> ATM support bitcoin lol
<lotuspsychje> next: hackers grab bitcoins for free & cash in an atm machine :p
 * oerheks buys 10 laptops @ lotus webshop with bitcoins
<lotuspsychje> here i come tahiti
<lotuspsychje> lolll
<lotuspsychje> oerheks: gonna create newsletter today, stay tuned :p
<lotuspsychje> end of year promotion
<ducasse> massive sale? ;)
<oerheks> promocode : iloveoerheks +20%
<ducasse> ...so it gets more expensive with that code? :)
<oerheks> jups, but you might win a box of lotus-cookies, check your mail!
 * oerheks rolls over the floor under the desk with 3x hd monitors laughing
<oerheks> only one monitor is not connected yet, dedicated to rasp-pi2
<oerheks> https://www.dropbox.com/s/pev1uxu1gwp21n5/2017desk3hd.JPG?dl=0
<ducasse> d'aww, is that drabber's basket under the desk? at his master's feet :)
<oerheks> Yes, no draft, free view, he is smart
<BluesKaj> 'Morning folks
<ducasse> hi BluesKaj
<ducasse> wb, you haven't missed much!
<BluesKaj> Hi ducasse, yeah yesterday was quiet for a saturday
<ducasse> 4 questions in 7+ hours...
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hey lotuspsychje
<pauljw> hi everyone
<BluesKaj> 'Morning pauljw
<pauljw> hey BluesKaj :)
<BluesKaj> we have some snow here, just enough to make the ground white, but it's supposed to rain so everything will be brown again
<pauljw> nice, love snow. hate the mess...
<immu> hi BluesKaj EriC^^
<BluesKaj> hi immu
<immu> why is everyone quiet and then suddently they wake up and chatter and go silent again
<daftykins> we all dip in and out getting on with our lives i guess
<pauljw> :)
<daftykins> instead of sitting around bored like yesterday, i spent the day clearing out some drawers in my office, i am to minimise all my possessions yet again ahead of the house being finished :D
<daftykins> feels great to cut down
<immu> oke
<EriC^^> hey immu what's up?
<immu> hey just chilling
<EriC^^> nice
<EriC^^> i was making some pancakes *drool*
<daftykins> :D
<EriC^^> hey daftykins :)
<daftykins> :D greetings
<daftykins> i'm thinking of bringing down my spare old core 2 quad PC and updating the OS on it, hmm
<EriC^^> that sounds like fun
<daftykins> it's annoying being without my office, so having to put PCs on the floor in the lounge and either run them on the TV or on monitors on the floor
<immu> daftykins, your housework still going on?
<immu> goodnite all
<TJ-> how the heck could the home directory ecryptfs wrapper get clobbered during a password change? that's really worrying
<EriC^^> clobbered?
<TJ->  pizzaburger's wrapped passphrase won't unwrap with either old or new passwords
<TJ-> so have to assume somehow the GUI tools used a different password to the one he set for the user
<daftykins> :S
<daftykins> foreign user with keyboard locale configuration quirks?
<daftykins> may've typed something different inadvertently
<TJ-> As I said earlier, I recall seeing this alot, including experiencing it myself, several times around 14.04 but not recently
<TJ-> no, because the user's new password logged in correctly
<TJ-> in my case regular en_GB all through and no variable characters
<daftykins> oic
<TJ-> Just hoping he's followed the instructions exactly for regenerated the .ecryptfs/wrapped-passphrase to regain access
<EriC^^> that's odd
<EriC^^> he's using 17.10?
<daftykins> i've put my old nvidia 560Ti, the BIOS killing one, into this spare core 2 duo PC - fired up 14.04 fine :)
<daftykins> but will it last...
<TJ-> I did spend some time back aroudn 14.04 trying to figure out what was going on but never got to the bottom of it. It only happens when changing the user's password from the GUI, and only rarely
<TJ-> I got lost in a spaghetti of Gnome code and gave up!
<daftykins> :D
<TJ-> this is why I despite these password dialogs that default to hiding what you're typing even from you!
<TJ-> thankfully a lot now offer the option to unhide it
<TJ-> terrible anti-user pattern that is though
<daftykins> :)
<TJ-> he's definitely doing something wrong; the new wrapped-passphrase won't unwrap either.
<TJ-> I think I've recalled what the bug is! dredging my memory
<TJ-> I *think* the Gnome seahorse  "Passwords and Certificates" application doesn't change it's master password to the new user's password, and therefore the unwrap password cannot be got to
<TJ-> Do we have anyone on 17.10 that can "pastebinit <( keyctl show )" for me as their regular user
