#ayatana 2009-06-29
 * MacSlow -> lunch
<macvr> MacSlow: thanx for clearing that up :) ... [didnt want to spam the lp]
<MacSlow> macvr, np... that's what we're here for too
<MacSlow> "gardening" bug-reports is just such a tedious work, as most of the time people don't care looking for duplicates at all and just ram everything into lp no matter what
<MacSlow> I usually have gardening-sprees every now and then
<macvr> i'v been doing it for the papercuts ...! otherwise the real ones wont get noticed
<MacSlow> macvr, yeah the papercuts... overall a good idea... but even that generated some amount of "spam"
<macvr> oh my god ... is has so many rants , that when i invalidate one person has sent me personal mail! via the contact user link!
<MacSlow> jono, hey... new to see you here :)
<jono> hey MacSlow, I always join here :)
<MacSlow> macvr, hehe... yeah ... sometimes I wish we had a "slap"-button on lp ;)
<macvr> +1^
<macvr> MacSlow: the reason why i thought that notify-osd 'had to allow' this extra notification>  i thought it had strict rules as to what uses the notify daemon... my bad!
<MacSlow> macvr, oh no... every app can send notifications vis DBus using libnotify 
<macvr> only no formatting :(
<MacSlow> yeah... please no text-layout system in notify-osd
<macvr> djsiegel_: might wanna add this to a milestone > https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/392292
<djsiegel_> macvr: so, we've collected a lot of great paper cuts since we made the first list of 100
<ScottK> Since several of you are involved in XDG stuff, I'm curious for your take on http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2009/06/saving-freedesktoporg-together.html
<djsiegel_> a lot of them are more "paper-cuty" that our first 100
<djsiegel_> if you find ones that look very paper-cut-y, let me know and I can swap them in
<macvr> djsiegel_: the above is a real misleading one
<djsiegel_> yeah
<macvr> djsiegel_: so the 100 has been reached?
<djsiegel_> macvr: https://edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/karmic (tentative list)
<djsiegel_> some are too hard to be paper cuts, we will discover
<djsiegel_> so we will need to swap them with better confirmed paper cuts
<macvr> djsiegel_: oh well... i can slow down on the pruning :)
<djsiegel_> no, don't!
<djsiegel_> :)
<djsiegel_> we need the pruning more than ever
<macvr> will do as much as i can :)
<macvr> I'll notify you of any interesting finds, which could be swaped for the invalids in Karmic
<djsiegel_> macvr: ok, I scheduled the tooltip one you just pointed out in this week
<macvr> :)
<SiDi> MacSlow: has there been any change in the font size in notify-osd ?
<SiDi> it looks _really_ little with the bzr trunk branch
<MacSlow> I've implemented exactely what the design folks wanted now
<SiDi> ah
<SiDi> well the design folks should discuss with the accessibility ones, because im 20, my eyes aint bad, and i have trouble reading them :p
<SiDi> i'll report a bug :)
<tgpraveen> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/dx-karmic-notify-osd/ i wanted to discuss about this blueprint specifically the section about consistent feedback for multimedia keys
<tgpraveen> does this mean that each time i press play, forward, etc a notification saying play, forward will appear?
<tgpraveen> if so then it will be useless and the correct way would be that banshee upon clicking play puts a notification of the song being played <--- and this is a bug on banshee bugzilla which is being/has been fixed and now if we give notification for play key. then each time i hit play there will be two notifications one for play key and one from banshee
<tgpraveen> am i wrong in interpreting this blueprint?
<SiDi> tgpraveen: i think it should be app-side too
<tgpraveen> SiDi: yes. are you in ayatana team/
<tgpraveen> ?
<macvr> tgpraveen: SiDi manages a lot more ;p
<SiDi> tgpraveen: i'm in ayatana discussion ML but i'm not working for Canonical
<macvr> he is everywhere , omnipresent
<SiDi> macvr: c'mon.. never more than ten channels
<macvr> SiDi: well... ten is a lot ;p
<tgpraveen> oh ok cool
<tgpraveen> should i mail this to the mailing list?
<macvr> tgpraveen: you can
<tgpraveen> do i have to join the mailing list to send a mail? also what is the link to join if i have to
<tgpraveen> ?
<macvr> tgpraveen:  the subscribe link is here > https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
<djsiegel> danrabbit: I think the open icon is a bit confusing
<danrabbit> please elaborate :p
<djsiegel> danrabbit: maybe something that looks more like the regular folder icon, but sort of being peeled open?
<djsiegel> like the front-right corner is being pulled forward and left, and there is a document in the folder
<djsiegel> maybe the document is coming up, out of the folder
<danrabbit> I was trying to get away from the document thing... but I'll play with it
<djsiegel> danrabbit: did you revert the trash icon?
<danrabbit> to the original?
<danrabbit> from Human?
<danrabbit> no...
<djsiegel> I thought you changed it to a more recycle bin type thing
<djsiegel> danrabbit: the desktop icon is great
<djsiegel> what about stylizing the panel icons, any more thoughts on that?
<danrabbit> Well, the big problem is this:
<danrabbit> USers
<danrabbit> :D
<danrabbit> If i knew for a fact that the panel was going to be one color and one color only or at least within a certain range of colors then it would be easy
<danrabbit> for example: we could do some color monochrome stuff like Leopard
<danrabbit> or make the icons look etched into the panel
<danrabbit> but, as soon as the user changes the color of the panel
<danrabbit> :(
<GreySim> Depending on what you're talking about, there may also be the issue of people deleting one or both panels, or otherwise rearranging them.
<djsiegel> danrabbit: please dont worry about panels changing color
<danrabbit> Are you sure?
<macvr> danrabbit: just out of curiosity... what icon set were you guys talking about?
<danrabbit> Humanity
<djsiegel> DBO, macvr, what do you think of this one: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/393606
 * macvr checks
<DBO> Install Applications... is not exactly accurate either
<DBO> Manage Packages... is more accurate but much less friendly...
<djsiegel> yeah, I am thinking of really novice users
<djsiegel> we can't teach them what a package is...
<DBO> right
<djsiegel> they are looking for "programs" and "applications"
<djsiegel> or maybe "apps" and even "widgets"
<DBO> I think programs is a better word than applications
<djsiegel> but the menu is "Applications"
<DBO> Ah true
<djsiegel> that could look like a glaring error
<djsiegel> even though you could be right
<DBO> the menu should be Programs =P
<djsiegel> :)
<DBO> seriously, Programs is a much more specific word than Applications
<macvr> djsiegel: Maybe > "Add/ Remove Applications "
<DBO> thats too long
<macvr> ah!
<DBO> it will stretch the menu
<danrabbit> Manage Apps
<djsiegel> yeah, I just don't know if users actually remove apps
<DBO> admittedly i18n will throw a kink in that anyhow
<macvr> +1
<djsiegel> Browse applications...
<djsiegel> that's very web 2.0
<djsiegel> very AppStore :)
<DBO> thats a good way to put it
<macvr> i like danrabbit's  Manage Apps 
<DBO> Manage is a bad word
<djsiegel> "Manage" makes me think i am only dealing with installed apps
<GreySim> Sounds too much like work.
<DBO> it implies some kind of administrative functionality beyond a simple installation
<danrabbit> Yea, now that I think about it I don't like Manage either
<djsiegel> like moving them around
<GreySim> I do use that tool to remove apps.
<danrabbit> me too
<DBO> im not sure its good but "Find Applications..." or "Search Applications..."
<djsiegel> Find might work
 * GreySim never uses Synaptic. Add/Remove for browsing upon a fresh installation, then apt-get directly for specific needs.
<GreySim> Then Add/Remove again for stuff I was just trying, but didn't like, so now want to remove.
<DBO> GreySim, thats because you know terminal
<djsiegel> I love how half of this channel is from gnome-do
<DBO> i think "Find Applications..." or "Browse Applications..." work best in this situation
<DBO> Add/Remove is very windows control panel
<GreySim> DBO: Right, I'm just saying, I'm theoretically a "power user", but I do use and like the Add/Remove tool. I'm not sure if I was really trying to make a point otherwise though...
<DBO> and if you think back to that you end up remembering that only dealt with already installed apps
<djsiegel> also, you have to install apps before you remove them
<danrabbit> djsiegel: oh this isn't #gnome-do?
 * danrabbit looks at the tab...
<djsiegel> you would learn that apps can be removed after looking through the app the first time
<djsiegel> hopefully...
<macvr> " App Janitor" :P
<danrabbit> lol
<djsiegel> macvr: that makes me think of urinal cakes
<DBO> djsiegel, I think you would get that, the checkboxes make it pretty clear
<danrabbit> Get Apps
<djsiegel> I think checkboxes are really great for plugins (in Do), but it's kind of weird in Add/Remove
<DBO> of course there are about 100 design issues inside the add remove thingie
<djsiegel> it's like a watered down synaptic
<djsiegel> then you "apply" the change of adding a new app?
<djsiegel> weird
<DBO> "Canonical-maintained Applications" -- why the fuck is Canonical?
<danrabbit> yea, it is weird..
<djsiegel> mpt: hurry up on that AppBrowser thingy
<DBO> and there should be an Install button or a remove button if its already installed
<djsiegel> yeah
<macvr>  " +/- Applications " with a tooltip?
<djsiegel> no
<macvr> AH!
<djsiegel> no 'syntax'
<macvr> i'm really on a bad roll!
<djsiegel> That's one thing I dislike about "Add/Remove" -- it's like a regex with that '/'
<djsiegel> mpt: we could really benefit from your thoughts on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/393606
<DBO> well the problem is the / is replacing what should be a UI element but doing so with text
<DBO> I've always hated that when you see foo/bar
<DBO> or my favorite [foo|bar]
<danrabbit> CLiCK HeRe To iNSTaLL L33T PRoGRaM$ !!!11!!
<macvr> "Manage applications" or "App manager"
<danrabbit> That's what I said
<djsiegel> danrabbit: the preferences icon is a bit squat, it looks like it sits 4-5px below the system monitor icon, for example
<macvr> oops! 
<DBO> djsiegel, one more that bugs me about the add/remove manager... the popularity stars are easily mistaken for quality...
<djsiegel> if you guys think of good suggestions, add them to the bug descriptions
<danrabbit> djsiegel, It's vertically centered
<djsiegel> danrabbit: yes, I know
<danrabbit> It's looks funny taller, like the Do icon.
<danrabbit> I was thinking of scraping it for just the tools
 * macvr thinks he is in the wrong room, checks again to make sure this isnt Gnome DO
<GreySim> I think someone already suggested this, or similar, but, "Application Browser"
<GreySim> Except that doesn't imply installing. So nevermind.
<macvr> djsiegel: "App Administrator"
<macvr> no i take it back!"
 * macvr needs to get some rest!
<GreySim> Make it two entries, possibly using the same tool in two different modes or something. "Get more applications" and "Remove applications".
<gus_> did anyone took a look at this http://spuriousinterrupt.org/projects/xfce4-notifyd ?
<macvr> gus_: seem to be still in v0.1 since nov 08!
<macvr> seems^
<gus_> well i dont trust that much in version numbers :P
<macvr> not being updated is kinda , the devs cant dedicate more time on it
<gus_> yeah, it seems xfce has few devels and thing go slow, but well.....
<kallepersson> danrabbit: ping
<djsiegel> kallepersson danrabbit kwwii: ok, we're here
<danrabbit> kallepersson:  :D
<kallepersson> danrabbit: what's up?
<danrabbit> no much, you?
<kallepersson> just had a chat with djsiegel
<kallepersson> I'd like to help out
<danrabbit> sweet
<kallepersson> danrabbit: I checked out the icon theme. What is the reason for the extension having text in icons?
<danrabbit> in Mimes?
<kallepersson> I mean, it's good info for us nerds (when we don't check the file name), but regular people just don't (shouldn't)  care
<kallepersson> (*shouldn't need to)
<kallepersson> yes, mime
<danrabbit> I can see the logic behind that
<kallepersson> I like the difference between binary, regular text and code documents though. GNOME-Icon-Theme doesn't do that
<danrabbit> I think the one's that I did like that were mostly programming languages and that
<danrabbit> I did it for DO
<kallepersson> aha, Isee
<danrabbit> want to join this team: https://launchpad.net/~elementaryicons
<SiDi> gus_: i dont think xfnotifyd is a big priority for them :) but the panel / file manager progress very very fast ;)
<gus_> SiDi, you might be right, as is it now it has some features that notify-osd dosent even have, like placing notifications in different positions, and lack other but it's just 3k lines of code
<macvr> djsiegel: wasnt there talk of merging all the different locations where a user installs programs?[Add/remove , Synaptic ] , I think mpt 's App centre idea is for that... so then removing the Add/remove is better , right?
<djsiegel> yes, that's mpt's domain, but it's not going into Karmic as far as I know
<macvr> djsiegel: you might wanna check , he was quite sure App centre is going to be in Karmic
<djsiegel> oh, ok
<djsiegel> it was discussed at UDS, you're right
<djsiegel> macvr: you should blog about your hundredpapercuts strategy to get more people helping
<djsiegel> macvr: we are running low on confirmed paper cuts
#ayatana 2009-06-30
<SiDi> MacSlow: hi
<SiDi> I'm having blur notifications with jpg/png files with python notifications, while i just pass the path to the image and dont resize anything, any idea ? :/
<mpt> SiDi, how large is the original image?
<SiDi> mpt: 240x240
<macvr> SiDi: anything larger than 48px doesnt display as crisp as the original
<SiDi> macvr: its not much better at 48x48 :(
<macvr> SiDi: i was getting blurs with 128px, i can't just imagine how a 240px would look ;p
<SiDi> And album art is usually between 200x200 and 600x600. And i'm 100% sure i dont use resized pixbufs
<macvr> if the original image is 48px , you *will* get good quality
<macvr> SiDi: https://bugs.launchpad.net/notify-osd/+bug/360228
<macvr> see MacSlow's last comment
<macvr> MacSlow: btw i didnt notice the second bug! that wasnt me :(
<mpt> macvr, a 240*240 image should look much better than a 40*40 one (for example)
<macvr> mpt: but when it scales down , the quality is poor , well atleast for me 
<SiDi> http://filebin.ca/ttttug/PythonBlurTest.tar.gz
<SiDi> macvr: as you can see with these examples, the result is exactly the same with a 900 / 300 / 48 px image
<SiDi> the only way to get it not blur is to make a sharp 48x48 pic on my own
<macvr> SiDi: yes ^ , that is the only way
<mpt> macvr, probably the thing that would most help would be a bug report containing (1) a sample image, (2) a screenshot of how Notify OSD displays it, and (3) a less-blurry resized version
<mpt> hang on there
<macvr> mpt: this is a known issue > https://bugs.launchpad.net/notify-osd/+bug/360228
<mpt> SiDi, if you can do a better job of resizing it than Notify OSD can, that's a bug in Notify OSD
<macvr> see MacSlow last comment
<SiDi> mpt: i think the resizing algo isnt strong enough
<SiDi> gimp's one isnt terrible either, i explicitely resharpened the picture in gimp
<mpt> SiDi, ok, so it would help most to report a bug with the three things I listed above
<macvr> mpt: the problem is because notify-osd sets a fixed limit of 48px , while AFAIK , the previous daemon used a max 128px for images
<mpt> SiDi, currently we're using what Gimp calls "Sinc (Lanczos3)" resizing
<mpt> It would be cool if someone could make a table of example images (some photographic album art, some line drawings, some smaller than 48*48, etc) showing how different algorithms resize them to 48*48
<mpt> That would help us decide if we need to switch algorithms, or use one for small images and another for large ones, or something else.
<SiDi> mpt: do you know about any other algorithms ? cause i dont :p
<mpt> SiDi, sure, Gimp lists "Linear" and "Cubic" alongside Sinc
<mpt> (Image > Scale Image)
<SiDi> okey
<SiDi> let me make some pictures then
<mpt> cool, thanks
<macvr> mpt: SiDi  the problem is mostly only for album art from music players, so setting a limit of 128px exception for those app alone should fix this
<mpt> macvr, you mean music players should be able to send notifications with bigger images than any other app?
<macvr> yup
<mpt> I don't think that would solve the problem, it would just shift it around
<mpt> e.g. what would happen if a player sent this image <http://www.ilovethe80s.com/murrayhead_chess_1986.jpg>?
<mpt> (album art from the Chess soundtrack)
<mpt> Should Notify OSD resize it up to 128px?
<SiDi> macvr: its a bad approach imo
<macvr> mpt: SiDi: the previous daemon , from usage experience , Used to be able to display small images less than 128px as is , but if it was larger than 128 px it would scale down , Maybe MacSlow has more knoledge about this
<macvr> knowledge^
<mpt> macvr, the version of notification-daemon in Ubuntu 8.10 had no limit on the size of images at all.
<mpt> I DoSed myself by typing "notify-send -i Screenshot.png". :-)
<mpt> because the bubble was larger than the screen and the close button was off-screen
<macvr> mpt: ah i didnt know that , but a rule as i had mentioned would be a nice addition to notify-osd
<macvr> maybe i didnt have very large album art ;p
<mpt> macvr, I think if we get the scaling right, the attractiveness of consistent image size for all notification bubbles will be greater than the ugliness from any remaining blurriness.
<mpt> But we need to fix applications to not send tiny images to Notify OSD, just like we fixed them to not ask for actions without checking.
<macvr> mpt: that is the problem , scaled down image can *never* be clear at 48px , it needs to be larger
<mpt> macvr, I can point you to Mac OS X as a counterexample
<macvr> ;p
<mpt> Nearly all the icons you see in recent Mac OS X screenshots are 512*512 originals scaled down to about 48*48.
<mpt> And it's the OS doing the scaling.
<macvr> mpt: i tested notify-osd with various sizes to create icons for breathe, it never looked good
<mpt> So, there must be some way to do it.
 * macvr needs to figure that out
<SiDi> macvr: svg with an original size bigger than 48px are very very likely scaled with another algorithm, specific to svg files, btw
<SiDi> from my testing the best is to resize + resharpen if the image was bigger
<SiDi> possibly sharpen's intensity depending on the original / 48px ratio
<SiDi> mpt: macvr: http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/6017/resume.png
<SiDi> Tell me for each picture which you think is best
<macvr> SiDi: 3rd
<macvr> SiDi: i guess you used the same rules for one column?
<SiDi> not for the monkey
<macvr> do the same as the top3 rows for the monkey also
<SiDi> meh
<mpt> SiDi, for the first three rows I'd choose 3, 1, 3
<mpt> For the last row I can barely tell any difference
<SiDi> ok so, 3 is cubic
<SiDi> 1 is no interpolation
<SiDi> renders great with geometric forms but horribly with photos
<SiDi> i'll add a cubic monkey
<SiDi> all the pictures were originally 900x900 except monkey, 64x64
<macvr> SiDi: its cheating^
<macvr> monkey or other face of the same size should be used for good comparison
<SiDi> mpt macvr http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/6017/resume.png now featuring a cubic monkey \o/
<SiDi> macvr: the goal is to test the algos if the picture is little, not only if it is big :P
<SiDi> so apparently the cubic algorithm would give sharpen results
<macvr> +1
<mpt> Except for the first column, they all look pretty good
<mpt> What we're wanting is to avoid it looking *bad*
<macvr> mpt look at the monkey in the 5th column! its horrible
<mpt> in pathological cases e.g. if Notify OSD is trying to scale a 42*42 icon to 48*48
<macvr> too much contrast
<mpt> Is that the Sinc/Lanczos3?
<SiDi> the last column is lanczos + sharpen
<SiDi> the 4th colomn for monkey is lanczos + smooth sharpen
<SiDi> the 4th column for other pictures is lanczos
<macvr> 2nd?
<SiDi> http://paste.ubuntu.com/206852/
<macvr> i think cubic is best
<mpt> So fish sharpen well but monkeys do not? :-)
<SiDi> mpt: actually the fish was 900x900 and monkey 64x64 :)
<SiDi> what i wanted to show here is that the sharpen's intensity should depend on how big the image was
<SiDi> for a good result
<SiDi> how big the image was -> how blur the resized one will be -> how much it should be sharpened
<mpt> So how about an image that's only ~10% larger than the target size?
<SiDi> 50x50 ?
<mpt> e.g. 55*55 down to 48*48
<mpt> That's about the worst case, so it would be useful to tell which algorithms are best at avoiding horrible results
 * SiDi just made a 64x64 one :(
<SiDi> bug 393797
<SiDi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/notify-osd/+bug/393797 (no ubottu x.x)
<macvr> SiDi: the description is not clear ! make the table look like your paste>http://paste.ubuntu.com/206852/
<SiDi> macvr: happy ?
<macvr> :)
<mpt> SiDi, macvr: Ok, here's a hypothesis: The best approach is to use Sinc/Lanczos if the original image is smaller than the target size, and to use bicubic if the original image is larger than the target size.
<macvr> mpt: out of curiosity , why Sinc/Lanczos for the small sizes? why not all use cubic?
<mpt> macvr, compare the cubic vs. sinc on <http://www.all-in-one.ee/~dersch/interpolator/interpolator.html> for example
<mpt> but feel free to make some more Notify-OSD-specific examples :-)
<macvr> ah... :)
<macvr> mpt: just a couple of hrs ago i deleted all the screenshots i had done for the icons!! :(
<artir> I want to help with the 100 papercuts project, but I just know python :(
<SiDi> artir find a papercut concerning a python app then :)
<artir> maybe there is a list with those bugs, so I was asking for that
<mpt> artir, Launchpad doesn't keep track of which languages a package is written in
 * MacSlow -> lunch
<mpt> artir, but two bugs in packages I'm fairly sure are written in Python are bug 349336 and bug 377697
<artir> i'll take a look
<artir> those are already taken
<artir> well, the first one is no
<artir> t
<macvr> MacSlow: how do i exclude notify bubbles from compiz animations? they are using the tootips close animation.
<macvr> ah ! just realized i had set notifications  to use compiz same as tooltips!
 * macvr bangs head on the wall!
 * SiDi helps macvr to bang his head on the wall.
 * macvr grateful 
<MacSlow> siDi the full resolution fish image example is 2000x2000 not 900x900 as you state in the test-script's desription text
<MacSlow> SiDi I'm redoing that comparision table with the current upstream version of notify-osd
<SiDi> MacSlow: okies
<SiDi> MacSlow: yes sorry, my mistake
<SiDi> MacSlow: mind having a look at this https://bugs.launchpad.net/notify-osd/+bug/382094 ? Just let me know if its feasible, and i'll do the appropriate changes if needed
<macvr> SiDi: your test python uses your home folder!
<SiDi> macvr: yes its why the one in the bug report uses shell scripts instead \o/
<macvr> oh... then i need to download that one!
<jdeslip> I am trying to get a new blueprint accepted into the gnome-do project.  Can anyone here have a look and give me some feedback (or leave feedback on the whiteboard) https://blueprints.launchpad.net/do/+spec/current-workspace
#ayatana 2009-07-01
<macvr> does anyone know how to *remove* a project from a bug? since there are so many papercuts being reported and reassigned , its almost creating spam
<hyperair> macvr: you can only mark a project as invalid.
<hyperair> no way to remove it
<macvr> hyperair: another easy way i find is re-assign it  , but sometimes I'm too lazy to identify the project ;p
<hyperair> macvr: you can only reassign a source packge in a distro, but not an actual project =\
<macvr> yup
<macvr> hyperair: well the prob is there are so many *1 line feature requests* , after a time its like why bother when the OP doesnt even take the time to complete his own requests!
<hyperair> heheh leave it to the bug triagers to feel the pain of stupid bug reportrs =p
<hyperair> reporters*
<hyperair> i just request for information and mark every damn thing as incomplete
<SiDi> macvr: you sleep from times to times ?
<macvr> SiDi: nope ;p
<hyperair> it's 1pm over there anyways. not bedtime is it?
<SiDi> its 9 AM here. But the fact is that macvr is on when i go bed and on when i wake up, and i dont sleep much, hyperair 
<hyperair> SiDi: i'm sure he sleeps when you're not looking ;)
<macvr> SiDi: well , i just leave my laptop running
<hyperair> SiDi: i think many people think the same about me.
<macvr> SiDi: its been on since the last 3 yrs ;p , rarely switch it off , if it had a mouth it would beg for mercy
<hyperair> D=
<hyperair> why do you even use a laptop instead of a desktop then?
<macvr> hyperair: i find it easy , rather than a desktop , can lie down ;p  too lazy to sit
<hyperair> macvr: one of my exclassmates had a cpu and monitor next to his bed, with the keyboard and mouse on the bed. =p
<hyperair> granted, his case was because he really didn't have anywhere else to put it but hey it meant he could lie down and use it. =p
<macvr> but he cant carry it around , can he ;p
<hyperair> hmm good point =p
<hyperair> my notebook's kinda grounded as well due to the attached monitor =p
<macvr> i make sure not to get used to dual monitors... 
<hyperair> i only use this set up when i'm home
<hyperair> ~3 months or so then i'm off again
<macvr> it just becomes weird if its not attached !
<hyperair> hehehe
<hyperair> well it takes some getting used to but it's fine =\
<hyperair> on the other hand, when i'm using a dual monitor setup, i have to make sure not to trigger the compiz ezoom plugin when the cursor is near place where the two monitors join
<hyperair> the cursor starts to jump between the two monitors
<hyperair> very irritating
<hyperair> i contacted the ezoom plugin author about it.. last year i think. no news =\
<hyperair> i mean he did say he would work on it, but i haven't heard from him since
<macvr> ah ... almost forgot about all the compiz probs!
 * MacSlow -> lunch
<SiDi> tedg: ping ?
<tedg> SiDi: Hey, I'm on a call right now... I can answer in a few minutes.
<SiDi> okey
<tedg> SiDi: Sorry about that, what's up?
<SiDi> tedg: hello. i wanted to ask you if it was possible to split libindicate and indicator-applet in LP so that libindicate can be built without indicator-applet's specific dependencies
<tedg> SiDi: Uhm, in theory.  But, I'm not sure why that'd make a difference.  It seems like that only effects Soyuz, right?
<SiDi> tedg: its actually because someone (Mark__T) wrote an indicator-applet-xfce
<SiDi> and it depends on libindicate 2
<SiDi> (and my karmic vm doesnt have enough room anymore to install all indicator-applet's dependencies :$ - but anyway it'd be cool for the xfce people to can easily test the xfce applet if you could split the lib and the gnome applet)
<tedg> SiDi: Okay.  I can look at doing that, they kinda grew organically to be in the same repo.  There's no technical reason to have them together.
<SiDi> tedg: great :)
<tedg> I'll make kenvandine go through the NEW process of having different source packages ;)
<SiDi> kenvandine: sorry :P
 * tedg owes kenvandine lots of beer next week :)
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> new source package... that is a ton of work :/
<kenvandine> SiDi, i don't see why that matters?
<kenvandine> you don't have to install indicator-applet... just libindicate
<kenvandine> actually i guess it shouldn't be that much work...  since it was already in main... just being split
<kenvandine> can someone file a bug about that and assign it to me?
<SiDi> kenvandine: i cant build it :/
<SiDi> i need to download all of indicator-applet's deps for building libindicate
<kenvandine> in theory you shouldn't need to build it :)
<SiDi> i need the trunk one for the xfce applet :)
<kenvandine> we just need to get it in main
<SiDi> is there a deb for libindicate 0.2 yet ?
<tedg> SiDi: I don't think I've put one out there.  But the packaging branch is up-to-date and should build.
<tedg> kenvandine: I think it's something we should do anyway as when GNOME 3 comes around the applet part will have to die anyway.
<tedg> I'd imagine all the bonobo deps will fall out of main rather quickly.  Or perhaps I'm just being hopeful :)
<kenvandine> tedg, yeah... i guess the first step is to split it into a separate branch right?
<kenvandine> the sources is what matters for SiDi
<tedg> kenvandine: Hmm, yeah.  Do you think they should be separate LP projects?
<tedg> It seems like a 1:1 of source packages to LP projects makes things easier.
<tedg> But, I don't work on the distro anymore ;)
<kenvandine> tedg, nah... i am happy having them in one project
<kenvandine> just split it in bzr
<kenvandine> and we can create releases for each independantly
<tedg> Okay.  I'm not going to do that today.  But it'll be a good activity when I can't sleep on the plane.
<tedg> It doesn't take a lot of thought, but takes time :)
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> cool
<kenvandine> tedg, how is the empathy stuff coming?
<kenvandine> i plan on doing my part of it on the plane :)
<kenvandine> unless i find time before then
<tedg> kenvandine: Apparently there is going to be an Empathy/Telepathy hackfest session at Desktop Summit.
<kenvandine> yup
<tedg> kenvandine: I was thinking about doing it then.
<kenvandine> ok
<tedg> kenvandine: Then I have a basis for asking questions :)
<kenvandine> i was thinking it would be nice to have it before then :)
<tedg> kenvandine: I can try, but I need to get some applet stuff done and slides for my talk Monday.  Plus, I'm single-parenting it this week.  I'm not optimistic that I'll get much time on it.
<kenvandine> sure
<kenvandine> understand
<kenvandine> i am still needing to prepare for my talk on tuesday :)
<tedg> I don't even have a clear vision for my slide template yet... usually I have that by now. :)
<tedg> The new background art wasn't as inspiring as previous ones :(
<kenvandine> tedg, background art... did i miss something?
<tedg> kenvandine: http://gould.cx/ted/presentations/scale7x/
<kenvandine> oh... background art you created :)
<tedg> kenvandine: Well, that was basically the Hardy background remixed.
<tedg> It was all kwwii's doing.
<kenvandine> :)
<artir> get the jaunty background and do the same :)
 * kenvandine is using gnome love artwork :)
<kenvandine> feels weird that my talk will demo something not based on ubuntu... and.. it feels weird that that feels weird :)
<tedg> artir: Yeah, the Jaunty background is boring.
<tedg> kenvandine: Heh.
<artir> who did it?
<tedg> artir: I believe that mt did.
<tedg> Though I'm not sure.
<kenvandine> i like it... it is good for a wallpaper
<artir> and for cd covers too
<kenvandine> yup
 * tedg thinks you guys are bland ;)
<kenvandine> :)
<artir> i haven't changed the wallpaper since i installed jaunty, it's simplicity it's appealing
<artir> plus i don't usually see my desktop clean :P
<macvr> djsiegel: https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/393158
<macvr> djsiegel: ^something that can be fixed this cycle :)
<djsiegel> macvr: awesome, but I gtg now
<macvr> later...
<lamalex> go to his new job as Apple CEO he means
<macvr> CEO , haha!
<macvr> somebody will probably have to forcibly throw out Jobs 
<SiDi> MacSlow: do you use the gconf font size / dpi for notify-osd in trunk ?
<MacSlow> yes
<SiDi> MacSlow: wont work with xfce ^.^
<SiDi> i was wondering why the font was _so_ little with trunk... my gnome font used to be more little than the xfce one
<MacSlow> *shrugg*
<SiDi> MacSlow: i'm gonna report this cause we're likely to use notify-osd in xubuntu now (i think its already the case in karmic)
<SiDi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/notify-osd/+bug/339026 actually its already here
<MacSlow> correct
<MacSlow> actually I don't have time to look at bugs atm
<SiDi> no problem
#ayatana 2009-07-02
<macvr> hyperair: hi... how to remove a comment from lp?
<macvr> or even edit the comment
<hyperair> macvr: you can't.
<macvr> hyperair: how did you do it then?
<hyperair> do what?
<macvr> wasnt it you how removed your own comment from the papercuts , saying it was off-topic?
<hyperair> nope
<macvr> who^
<hyperair> i just emailed the bug saying it was offtopic, and emailed you the reply directly
<macvr> ah... 
<macvr> hyperair: you had me confused ;p , i was wonder how the hell you did it but i'm not allowed ;p didnt notice you had sent mail directly
<hyperair> heheheh
<hyperair> =p
<macvr> mpt: maybe you can look at this and consider for your appcenter idea ? > https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/394608
<mpt> macvr, yes, that should be fixed, thanks for pointing it out
<macvr> :)
<lamalex> mpt: what's the implementatin status, still targetted for karmic?
<mpt> macvr, however, for 9.10 at least Update Manager won't be part of AppCenter, and in the meantime it should be fixed in Update Manager
<mpt> lamalex, yes. mvo and glatzor are working on apt-daemon, mvo is trying to wrestle xapian into a helpful state, and I'm starting to write up the design spec
<lamalex> cool beans :)
<macvr> mpt: how many tiers are the used for the updates? classified as critical/security?
<mpt> macvr, as far as Update Manager is concerned, just two. Security, and everything else.
<ScottK> That's all there are.
<ScottK>  ... at least post-release.
<macvr> mpt: ah... so you are leaving out the critical updates to be notified only at 1 week? :(
<macvr> non-security^
<mpt> For example, if you're subscribed to a daily-build PPA, or subscribed to backports, Update Manager doesn't show them differently from other updates.
<macvr> :(
<mpt> macvr, the developers who issue the updates regard security updates as more important than the others, so Update Manager acts accordingly. Personally I'd rather security was a subset of critical.
<macvr>  ^+1  ... since there is more need for ciritical updates than security updates!
<macvr> critical
<ScottK> It can actually get much more complex since the criticality of updates in general and security updates in particular is very context dependent.
<macvr> ScottK: critical ,can be used fixes that solve crashes/memory leaks/major improvements + security updates .. the problem now is that, the critical[fixes for crashes] updates *dont* trigger notifier until 1 week !
<ScottK> macvr: Right.  I think that the entire concept of hiding updates from users is fundamentally wrong and broken.
<macvr> in the old notifier this wasnt a problem , since the updates ,show up soon
<artir> I have a small proposal for the update manager
<artir> right now, it pops out a window each time I click on update
<artir> It shpuld be better to display the loading bar inside the app
<artir> like this http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/6358/pantallazojpb.png
<artir> the buttons would be replaced by that bar when u click on update
<macvr> artir: this could be considered while designing mpt's appcenter
<macvr> as he says it will be included in later releases
<mpt> artir, absolutely
 * mpt -> lunch
<artir> :)
<artir> it could be even implemented in time for karmic
<artir> it's kinda a papercut
<macvr> artir: a redesign is not a papercut ;p
<artir> it's a fleshwound :P
<macvr> just minor fixes
<artir> i'll add it to AppCenter/Comments on the wiki
 * MacSlow -> lunch
<macvr> ScottK: mpt: http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=496
<macvr> sometimes too many updates can be frustrating too ;p
<macvr> so hiding the non-critical really is not a bad that bad an idea :)
<ScottK> macvr: What's non-critical?
<macvr> ScottK: trivial fixes , anything that doesn fix a major crash/freeze/or give major improvement to the app 
<ScottK> macvr: We don't do those post-release.
<macvr> ScottK: anything the averge user doesnt obviously benefit from
<ScottK> We have a policies in place for what should be fixed post-release and it should prevent minor stuff from getting out.
<macvr> but , things miss out, the Jaunty release caused random X restarts! post release and this was for a month!
<ScottK> Existence of a bug doesn't equate to a fix.
<ScottK> Particularly with X where many problems are hardware specfiic we need to be very careful as one person's fix may be another person's regression.
<macvr> ScottK: ^thats the problem! so when we are fixing one's problem , someone else can have new ones , these are critical for average users, since they just want to use it. maybe such updates can be given higher priority
<ScottK> Of course such updates are essential for one person and irrelevant for another.
<macvr> but we cant distinguish them , and present the updates at leisure 1 week later for users who need them, but again as you say " entire concept of hiding updates from users is fundamentally broken"
<macvr> :)
<macvr> oh... its not only probs with X , gedit post 8.10 was highly buggy , causing system freezes and 100%cpu usage , , so things sometimes slip out inspite of the policies
<mpt> macvr, we reduce people's fixation on the number of updates in 9.04 by not displaying the number
<macvr> mpt: thats what i like about not having the notification area icon. i dont think  much about it
<macvr> mpt: btw , in karmic , i saw it back!
<macvr> are you planning to return notification area icon?
<mpt> no
<macvr> Thank goodness
<lamalex> phew
<macvr> mpt: but still not a fan of the pop-unders ;p
<lamalex> I hate that thing, I'm fighting with my company right now to remove it from ours. The other devs think you guys were wrong on removing it. developers--
<mpt> We're simplifying the window for Karmic
<mpt> Anyway, Update Manager isn't really related to Ayatana, it's more of a subject for #ubuntu-desktop :-)
<macvr> ;p
<macvr> mpt: you should have a look at the ubuquity slideshow , IMO the design aint that great
<mpt> macvr, I know, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2009-June/002124.html
<mpt> unfortunately I just don't have time for it at the moment
<macvr> mpt: hehe, i pointer HS to you 
<macvr> pointed
<macvr> i told him though mpt is quite a busy guy
<tgpraveen> hi in karmic according to karmic-notify-osd blueprint it is planned to suppress notify-osd bubbles which are non critical for fullscreen apps.
<tgpraveen>  so will empathy/pidgin msgs be critical or non critical?
 * lamalex had an incident with im bubbles yesterday
<lamalex> :\
<macvr> tgpraveen: i think there is also plan for a status indicator which will control it ,well atleast it was mentioned in the mailing list
<tgpraveen> macvr: like a do-not-disturb mode
<macvr> yup
<tgpraveen> coz by default IM msgs should be considered critical if in fullscreen they should NOT be suppressed
<tgpraveen> though if i am in do-not-disturb mode i guess it makes sense to suppress it
<rgreening> kwwii: ping
<rgreening> kwwii: are there any .mng oxygen icons for things like copy files, etc?
<rgreening> kwwii: in the usb creator, I have a progress bar, but it would be nice to have an icon for each step in the progress, like "install bootloader", "copying files", "Creating file system", "Making/formating filesystem", "Syncing media"...
<rgreening> then I can remove the useless time remaining estimator text...
<rgreening> :)
<rgreening> kwwii: actually, that would be harder to implement by step... maybe one simple .mng to represent building a usb stick... like a puzzle or building blocks...
<rgreening> thoughts?
<rgreening> :)
<kwwii> rgreening: until now we do not have any mng files in the theme
<kwwii> actually, for whatever reason, everyone tries to avoid using them in desktops
<rgreening> hmm.. ok
<kwwii> rgreening: sounds like an interesting idea
<rgreening> I was thinking it would look cool.
<kwwii> yeah
<rgreening> but not necessary... hows the usb icon coming. :P
<kwwii> well, I started it ;)
<kwwii> maybe I can finish it tomorrow
<rgreening> :P
<SiDi> heya mrooney ! when do you release wxbanker 0.6 ? :p
<mrooney> SiDi: good question! :)
<mrooney> I'm working on recurring transactions and online syncing with mint.com
<mrooney> also tags are implemented by someone else so I'd like to merge that
<SiDi> okies
<tgpraveen> SiDi: what is wxbanker?
<SiDi> tgpraveen: its an app mrooney develops
<mrooney> tgpraveen: personal finance app
<tgpraveen> k
<macvr> beuno: hi... your thoughts on this> https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/389133
<SiDi> macvr: want mines ? (*grins*)
<macvr> SiDi: you will always oppose me ... so no ;p
<macvr> i doubt that one is a papercut
<beuno> macvr, give me a few minutes, I'll take a peak
<macvr> np
<SiDi> macvr: i must say im 80% against this feature to be implemented
<SiDi> most users dont user what kill'ing a proc means
<SiDi> and its not so common that a proc refuses to end when asked to
<macvr> SiDi: as i said no thoughts from you ;p
<macvr> SiDi: but i had the same thoughts as you... :)
<SiDi> but apart from the fact that it'd be a regression, its a perfectly valid papercut :D
<SiDi> its true its not easy for the user to guess how to kill a proc that doesnt wanna end, but right clicking it is not so much harder to guess after having gone through the process of discovering the sysmonitor and finding the processes
<SiDi> and windows users are _very_ used to the advanced options of ctrl+alt+suppr anyway </troll>
<SiDi> macvr: should i be the bad guy on the bug report ?
<macvr> Actually i dont mind ... its just that Rich has done the patch, didnt want to dissapoint him :)
<SiDi> things that happen
<SiDi> i began patching an app in a totally unknown language today because it was using actions
<SiDi> (mail-notification throwing bad popups due to actions use without cap checking)
<SiDi> and half-way to the process, i have a popup telling me i got a new mail for this report
<SiDi> in which it is linked to a dupe with a complete patch.. :D
<macvr> hehe
#ayatana 2009-07-04
<tgpraveen> is the face-browser in gdm going to be in karmic?
<tgpraveen> the blueprint seems to be not specific ie not clear enough
<Nafallo> tgpraveen: looks like it is...
<tgpraveen> hmm that would be nice indeed
<tgpraveen> Nafallo: are u in the ayatana team?
<Nafallo> not sure what that means, sorry.
<Nafallo> I have a computer running karmic thou
<macvr> tgpraveen: ayatana is basically the UX team https://launchpad.net/~canonical-ux/+members , with the other members subscribed to the list
<djsiegel3> rickspencer3: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/147230
<macvr> mpt: is the system menu being reorganized this release or Karmic+1? 
<macvr> mpt: also something you might be interested in > https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/387830 
<SiDi> macvr: you guys have so many GUIs in Ubuntu
<SiDi> in Xubuntu its more simple... command line :D
<macvr> SiDi: cant give too many options to kids ;p
<macvr> SiDi: another one,.... cant give mice too much cheese ;p
<SiDi> macvr: you fear we become fat ?
<macvr> fat like ubuntu ;p
<macvr> SiDi: when did we sell ubuntu to M$ > http://linuxologist.com/linuxhumor/ubuntu-is-a-microsoft-product-now/
<SiDi> macvr: ive seen other websites presenting linux as a "microsoft os"
<SiDi> happens when you recruit noobs who put "microsoft os" instead of "os" in a field just not to have to type it 5 times in their database
<macvr> SiDi: well it is actually... M$ ripped of kde
<macvr> off
#ayatana 2010-07-05
<seif_> hey guys
<seif_> we need some usbaility ppl here
<seif_> I really dislike the name places
<seif_> and subcategories are just exhausting
<seif_> so places -> documents is just exhausting
<thorwil> seif_: i'm not sure what you mean with exhausting, here
<seif_> http://yfrog.com/f/0af0tp/
<seif_> we r thninig of going this way
<thorwil> seif_: what problem do you see with that label "Places"?
<dutchie> my netbook has no LEDs for caps lock. i used to use a package whose name i forget which adds a panel applet, but now i can't do that with unity. I would be interested in writing an indicator to show this
<dutchie> how would I?
#ayatana 2010-07-06
<qense> In bug #601209 there is a request to get support for table menus in Indicator Application. Is that something we want?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 601209 in indicator-application (Ubuntu) "Indicator breaks gtk table menus (affected: 1, heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/601209
<hyperair> gtk table menus? O_o
<qense> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/43001631/screenshot_003.png
<qense> It's for the weather applet.
<qense> wrong screenshot
<qense> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/51306986/explanation.png
<vish> interesting ..
<funkyHat> I think this fits here: I helped someone in #ubuntu yesterday who had accidentally deleted the admin group from his system, assuming the "Manage Groups" interface was related to the user he'd selected in the main User Settings window. It looks like quite an easy mistake to make. Are there any plans to address this?
<seif__> hey guys
<seif__> i want a local install of unity
#ayatana 2010-07-07
<LucidFox> See, I actually did try pitching that patch here, but nobody replied
<kenvandine> hey LucidFox
<kenvandine> hadn't seen you over here yet
<kenvandine> tedg isn't online atm... he should be back soon
<kenvandine> probably at lunch
<kenvandine> LucidFox, he is the main appindicator guy and also a heavy liferea user
<kenvandine> so probably happy to see your patch :)
<LucidFox> Okay!
<LucidFox> I just wonder how it escaped everyone, what with it being tagged with trayaway, subscribed by ubuntu-sponsors, written about on Planet Ubuntu and Omg! Ubuntu, and also linked from that list on the wiki trayaway page
<LucidFox> But well, better late than never :)
<kenvandine> hehe
<kenvandine> well, not sure :)
<kenvandine> jcastro, fyi ^^
<kenvandine> jcastro, was liferea on your list?
<jcastro> ted was tracking it iirc.
<jcastro> is there a bug?
<jcastro> odd, ted was tracking it because he was the one whining about it all UDS.
<LucidFox> jcastro> About liferea?
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> LucidFox: can you link me to the bug?
<LucidFox> bug #540490
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 540490 in Bazaar "update fails when trying to lock master branch (in a readonly checkout) (dup-of: 412223)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/540490
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 412223 in Bazaar "bzr up locks master branch (affected: 2, heat: 4)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/412223
<LucidFox> er
<LucidFox> wrong one
<LucidFox> weird
<vish> bug #540490
<LucidFox> the link is correct and points to the Liferea bug, but ubot5 acted up
<vish> hmm , bot gone crazy!
<vish> jcastro: https://launchpad.net/bugs/540490
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 540490 in liferea (Ubuntu) "liferea should be added to the indicator applet (affected: 15, heat: 108)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<jcastro> ugh, how did we miss that
<jcastro> nigelb: can you put someone from reviews on that patch?
<nigelb> jcastro: I'll get to it :)
<jcastro> hero
<jcastro> LucidFox: thanks for bringing it to our attention
<jcastro> kenvandine: Lesson learned here is to never trust ted when he says "I got it"
<nigelb> heh
<LucidFox> oh blimey
<jcastro> I saw it on omgubuntu and all that stuff, but I was like "oh that should make ted happy."
<LucidFox> in the time it took for that patch to be noticed, someone already got -1ubuntu2 uploaded :)
<LucidFox> so this will have to be at least -1ubuntu3
<jcastro> speaking of app indicators, nigelb, fagan owes me a patch for deluge
<jcastro> as he said he would work on it
<jcastro> so if you see him bug him about it. :D
<nigelb> jcastro: I will :)
<nigelb> jcastro: this is something that a reviewer can only say "forwarded upstream" but they dont want it yet
<nigelb> so I'm leaving the decision to you folks to get it in
<jcastro> kenvandine: we never sorted about universe apps for app indicators, can you bring it up with seb? sounds like a good opportunity for a new contributor to get that in.
<LucidFox> Speaking of upstreams, I tried to pitch that Liferea patch to upstream, but they said they weren't interested in Ubuntu-specific functionality.
<LucidFox> "We'll wait until it becomes a standard part of GNOME"
<nigelb> I think indicator stuff can go right in once tested and this patch has been extensively tested
<nigelb> but jcastro, you're call ;)
<nigelb> *your
<jcastro> LucidFox: the best you can do in that case is offer the patch.
<jcastro> we've made it so people can fall back to the old tray so people can use them and not worry about breaking distros with the tray
 * LucidFox nods
<jcastro> also, it's not ubuntu-specific, it's basically KDE technology
<jcastro> so app authors can use one thing for both. 
<LucidFox> Well, this is the messaging indicator, not the app indicator.
<LucidFox> But this patch does fall back to the tray
<jcastro> I think GNOME has different plans for GNOME3.
<jcastro> oh, right, sorry
<jcastro> yeah, I can see that being an issue for people
<jcastro> sorry I am mixed up today
<LucidFox> While I'm here, any plans for making notify-osd configurable?
<jcastro> I saw a tool somewhere to make it configurable
<LucidFox> There was a third-party app using a patched version of notify-osd, but I don't think text config files in the home directory are the way to go
<LucidFox> so I'm wondering if it was made unconfigurable for ideological reasons
<jcastro> design reasons really.
<kenvandine> vish, those adium-theme-ubuntu patches you gave me the link to yesterday
<kenvandine> vish, i think design should review those
<LucidFox> Design reasons?
<vish> kenvandine: the patch to make empathy not scroll too?
<kenvandine> yeah
<jcastro> LucidFox: check on the ayatana list archives for the discussion, sorry I have to go, font launching. :D
<kenvandine> that is still a usability thing... mpt or someone should look at that
<LucidFox> so there's no chance it gets at least some options configurable via gconf or something?
<vish> hmm , mpt is on vacation,
<kenvandine> or dseigel
<vish> kenvandine: who can be poked? david?
<vish> :)
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> someone with more UX experience than me :)
<vish> sure , will do that ;)
<kenvandine> let them review them, and i can handle getting them uploaded as needed
<vish> kenvandine: neat , thanks.
<LucidFox> ubuntu-font-beta-testing?
<vish> kenvandine: this one has a branch too , and it was working earlier but somehow got missed during gwibber upgrades : Bug #317056  , could you check it out :)
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 317056 in gwibber (Ubuntu) "Allow F5 keyboard shortcut for refreshing Gwibber (affected: 11, heat: 61)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/317056
<vish> thanks :)
<kenvandine> LucidFox,  http://design.canonical.com/2010/07/the-ubuntu-font/
<LucidFox> oh, neat
<LucidFox> will it replace DejaVu as the UI font?
<kenvandine> LucidFox, i have no details :)
<kenvandine> just the blog post
<kenvandine> vish, i set a milestone on that so it doesn't get forgotten
<kenvandine> vish, thx
<vish> kenvandine: great , thanks :)
<hyperair> hmm why is it a private PPA?
<hyperair> these things should be open to public imo
<vish> hyperair: its for ubuntu members , so that it can be tested before full release
<hyperair> vish: yeah, i'm just wondering why it's not open for non-ubuntu-members.
<vish> hyperair: it was discussed in the UDS , they want to make sure there are no problems before making a public release. once it is released there is no pulling back
<jcastro> font foundries are very closed by default
<jcastro> the distribution needs to be limited
<jcastro> (you'll find other fonts in the past that are open now like bitstream, droid, etc. didn't have public betas at all)
<hyperair> jcastro: but why?
<hyperair> E: The method driver /usr/lib/apt/methods/https could not be found.
<hyperair> hmmm
<jcastro> he sort of explains in the video
<hyperair> now what =\
<jcastro> oh, make sure you have apt-https-transport installed
<hyperair> er, doesn't seem to exist.
<jcastro> apt-transport-https I mean
<jcastro> (I thought we installed that by default?)
<hyperair> my karmic->lucid upgrade screwed up halfway
<jcastro> installing that should sort it
<hyperair> yeah installing now
<LucidFox> ...NDA fonts?
<LucidFox> Are they bloody kidding
<LucidFox> Well, that's Canonical, I guess... proprietary development platform, proprietary sync service, and now proprietary fonts
<jcastro> the font will be open
<thorwil> LucidFox: a half-closed beta doesn't make/leave the font proprietary.
<hyperair> thorwil: the question is, why even make it half-closed?
<hyperair> we don't make our ubuntu betas closed betas, so why should we make our fonts closed betas?
<jcastro> jcastro | font foundries are very closed by default  
<thorwil> hyperair: i think the concern is that fully public released fonts tend to develope a live of their own. they spread
<hyperair> thorwil: and what's wrong with that?
<thorwil> and that's ugly if you still want to revise it
<jcastro> LucidFox: what's proprietary about ubuntu's development platform?
<LucidFox> okay, Launchpad *was* proprietary
<LucidFox> Ubuntu One still is and I don't see it changing in the future
<hyperair> u1 is such wonderful stuff that it refuses to log in, or sync for me ^_^
<thorwil> dropbox > u1
<hyperair> thorwil: agreed.
<LucidFox> dropbox is also proprietary, but the difference is, it's not made by Canonical and doesn't have Ubuntu in its name
<hyperair> and, it works!
<hyperair> and doesn't use that miserable couch shit.
<thorwil> i found it to be reliable where u1 wasn't
<hyperair> to be fair, there isn't a dropbox music store
<LucidFox> Bah, music store
<hyperair> lol
<LucidFox> Never understood them, but then I'm not a music type
<LucidFox> (not that I'd use one even if I was, no way I'm paying for air)
 * hyperair nods
<LucidFox> is there *any* file synchronization service with an open source server side?
<jcastro> ifolder
<jcastro> sparkleshare
<hyperair> honestly speaking, i don't really give a damn about whether web services are open source or not.
<hyperair> i won't be able to make the changes freely anyway
<hyperair> since i'm not the one running the service.
<hyperair> bah https. i can't use apt-cacher-ng =(
<jcastro> if you used squid-deb-proxy you would be rocking. :D
<hyperair> jcastro: how does it handle ssl?
<hyperair> jcastro: does it perform ssl unravelling and use its own certificate or something?
<jcastro> it doesn't cache it, but it doesn't error either
<hyperair> but caching is the whole point!
<hyperair> my apt-conf prevents it from erroring out
<jcastro> ah
<jcastro> yeah but other than private repos what would you SSL apt for?
<hyperair> Acquire::http::Proxy "DIRECT";
<hyperair> nothing, but it'd help for multiple computers =\
<vish> hmm , something is making my eye hurt .. thats odd :s
<hyperair> it reminds me a little of comic sans
<vish> hyperair: huh! comic sans! 
<hyperair> =\
<hyperair> really
<hyperair> it looks like a slightly smalle comic sans
<Kangarooo> hello can i get answer why Transmission right click is in left click place?
<Kangarooo> ive read theres some serious decision for that
<vish> Kangarooo:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/ApplicationIndicators
<Kangarooo> yes ive tryd searching in there left and can find only 2x left in there and in sentences they are doesnt say transmission now need to change its behaviour or that its really needed to be changed. also i dont see that right click which everbody has been using is bad.
<vish> Kangarooo: http://design.canonical.com/2010/04/notification-area/ , 
<Kangarooo> im not using Ubuntu. im using Xubuntu that idea about making some new indication panel witch to open i need one more click (time waste) wont be for me. i also wont want that.. so now every programm will be different couse for different distro theres one new place saving and time wasting applet witch needs menu come out of different click.. is microsoft specially making theese ideas for ubuntu?
<jcastro> if your tray or whatever doesn't use app indicators then it should fall back to the old way
<jcastro> if it doesn't do that then that's a bug
<Kangarooo> yes and in Bug 524179 (witch has 5 added dubliccates and 2 more not added dublicates) one guy gives link to this 1st link and then another one makes this bug wont fix and also another one makes bug from Transmision to Ubuntu.
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 524179 in Ubuntu "Left-clicking on taskbar icon for transmission brings up the right-click menu (affected: 14, heat: 97)" [Undecided,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/524179
<jcastro> that bug should probably be filed against xubuntu instead
<jcastro> and reopened there
<jcastro> do you have a screenshot of what it looks like in xubuntu?
<Kangarooo> yes btw i just made it to report bug and i see many dublicates
<Kangarooo> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-286.php
<jcastro> I suspect that the fallback to the old way is broken
<jcastro> kklimonda: any idea?
<Kangarooo> if for that app that makes all in one button needs to have other way then in that app needs to be coded that it makes it other way.. why all apps need to change that behaviour?
<jcastro> I don't understand your question
<kklimonda> jcastro: the problem is that's how appindicator works - even if application-indicator isn't there the GtkStatusIcon that is being "emulated" behaves just like menu in application-indicator. I think that's how all applications we have changed in lucid behave.
<jcastro> I thought the point of the library was to have a fallback?
<kklimonda> jcastro: and it provides a fallback - it just behaves just like menu in appindicator area, it doesn't restore the original behaviour.
<jcastro> oh I see
<jcastro> kklimonda: any idea what happens on other distros?
<kklimonda> I agree that it's suboptimal but the best approach isn't easy one and maybe we could create a better API that makes it possible for application to fallback to its own menu that behaves like everywhere else.. something like app_indicator_present () that we could check at the runtime and not at the compilation time.
 * jcastro nods
<jcastro> eggs broken on the path to the consistant omelette I suppose
<kklimonda> jcastro: if other distributions use appindicator they have the same problem.
<kklimonda> indeed
<kklimonda> tedg: would it be possible to make check at the runtime instead?
<kklimonda> tedg: to check if application-indicator is present and if not use the default GtkStatusIcon and not fallback provided by appindicator.
<tedg> kklimonda, It does fallback at runtime if there is no appindicator area.  It is uses GtkStatusIcon.
<tedg> kklimonda, Heh, exactly :)
<tedg> kklimonda, By default we use the menu we've been given, but some applications provide different fallbacks by subclassing and replacing the fallback/unfallback functions.
<tedg> kklimonda, We also provide a signal, but I think subclassing is easier.
<kklimonda> tedg: but that would mean we would have to write even more code and stuff it into all applications that, for example, use left mouse button to hide/show window, right? As much as we may not agree with this behaviour it is something people are used to and currently there is no way of getting it back without recompiling source code.
<tedg> kklimonda, It should be just shuffling code that already exists.  But, in reality, there is nothing consistent in applications for us to build on.  We can really only fallback with what data we have.
<kklimonda> tedg: but we could do a test.. lets say in app_indicator_init (). Make it return null and then application can just reuse its own menu, mouse button behaviour and everything else they like.
<tedg> kklimonda, It's async though.
<kklimonda> bah
<jcastro> cody tells me someone from xfce is looking at app indicators/KSNI but I don't know how far along that is
<jcastro> that's the "real fix" anyway. :D
<tedg> jcastro, They should just be able to use Mark__T's work on the indicator stuff and use our app indicator loader I believe.
<kklimonda> jcastro: but that will still leave us with different behaviour and no way back to the upstream one, right? And Kangarooo's question wasn't really "hey, that's not an application indicator" but "why does it behave different than what I'm used to". On the other hand we could stand our ground and push the standard implemented by appindicator. That may make sense in a longer run.
<jcastro> I agree with you
<Kangarooo> +2
<jcastro> there's nothing really stopping anyone from maintaining the old behavior in a PPA or something
 * kklimonda nods
<kklimonda> tedg: even app_indicator_init is async call? /me got curious :)
<tedg> kklimonda, It's not, but the detection of the service is.  So it doesn't fallback until after it checks.
<kklimonda> ah, I see now.
<Kangarooo> also i believe that in Ubuntu also its possible to make that new one click app not work in Ubuntu? then also thouse buttons should be as they were..
<Kangarooo> whats the name of programm that looks like bug icon in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/ApplicationIndicators?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=disaster.png ?
<ScottK> http://kitterman.com/kubuntu/appmenu1.jpeg
#ayatana 2010-07-08
<qense> tedg: What about moving the Python bindings to use GObject Introspection?
<tedg> qense, I have no issue with that, I haven't yet asked if PyGI is going to be in main for Maverick.
<tedg> qense, Otherwise it's just testing.
<qense> tedg: Isn't it yet?
<tedg> qense, I'm not sure, I haven't asked :)
<qense> tedg: gir1.0-appindicator-0.1 is in universe at the moment.
<seb128> tedg, well, pygi is deprecated
<qense> seb128: What should we use instead?
<seb128> tedg, they merged that back in pygobject
<qense> ah!
<seb128> it's just going to be part of pygobject
<seb128> so you can depends on it
<seb128> it's still moving parts though
<seb128> I would rather wait for next cycle to depends on new techs
<seb128> ie gtk3, introspection
<qense> ok
<seb128> well that doesn't stop to start work on it
<seb128> that will probably come in useful
<qense> Is introspection support already in GObjct in Maverick?
<seb128> but I don't think for the default installation we should rely on it much for this cycle
<seb128> no, but we have pygi in universe right now
<seb128> you can use that until we upgrade pygobject
<qense> ok
<seb128> should not make a real difference
<qense> There is a deprecated sinkfunc warning thing each time you import a module from the repository for the first time.
<seb128> right
<qense> tedg: It was decided during the Application Indicator meeting at the UDS-M that some guy from the DX/Desktop team would solve the C# bindings inheritance problem by sealing the class, right?
<qense> seb128: Do you know what version of GTK# will be included in Maverick? Specifically the GAPI2 components, since the trunk contains an update for it that adds support for GObject virtual methods, which is something we need to get the fallback and unfallback functions of libappindicator to be properly supported in Mono as well. (Currently you can't do custom fallbacks in C#)
<qense> .
<seb128> no
<seb128> better to ask Laney or directhex
<qense> seb128: OK, thanks.
<LucidFox> tedg, you
<LucidFox> * you're here, excellent!
<tedg> LucidFox, Howdy
<LucidFox> I was told to poke you about the Liferea messaging indicator patch :)
<jcastro> he can't escape now!
<qense> :)
<qense> jcastro: How'sthe hplip patch doing?
<jcastro> qense: sitting.
<jcastro> qense: I should have a person RSN
<qense> jcastro: Anything that needs to be done for it?
<qense> RSN?
<LucidFox> bug #540490 > tedg
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 540490 in liferea (Ubuntu) "liferea should be added to the indicator applet (affected: 15, heat: 92)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/540490
<LucidFox> hmm, what's the "redirection" syntax?
<tedg> LucidFox, Cool.  Do you by chance know which Liferea will be in Maverick?  i.e. should we be looking at 1.7 or 1.6.
<LucidFox> No idea, I thought core developers decided that
<LucidFox> right now it's 1.6, I have patches for both 1.6 and 1.7
<tedg> seb128, Do you know which version of liferea will be in Maverick?
<qense> tedg: Bug 558841 was fixed by you with commit 136. Could you assign the Application Indicators task to the 0.2.2 milestone?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 558841 in indicator-application (Ubuntu) "bluetooth "devices" menu item not working in bluetooth indicator (affected: 16, heat: 96)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/558841
<tedg> qense, Sure
<qense> tedg: Thanks!
<seb128> tedg, no, whatever is stable by maverick time
<qense> seb128: so bug 558841 should be fixed one 0.2.2 gets uploaded to Maverick. 
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 558841 in indicator-application (Ubuntu) "bluetooth "devices" menu item not working in bluetooth indicator (affected: 16, heat: 96)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/558841
<seb128> ok
<seb128> tedg, could you make a a 0.0.2n update with it maybe?
<seb128> tedg, or should I just sru the commit on the current stable version?
<tedg> seb128, I can make that tarball as well.
<seb128> tedg, would be nice
<joey> iainfarrell: ping
<iainfarrell> joey: hey there
<qense> bug 530138 is a duplicate of the bluetooth bug
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 530138 in indicator-application (Ubuntu Lucid) "Using .insert() on a GtkMenu doesn't update the AppIndicator's menu (dup-of: 558841)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/530138
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 558841 in indicator-application (Ubuntu Lucid) "bluetooth "devices" menu item not working in bluetooth indicator (affected: 17, heat: 107)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/558841
<qense> A lot of "indicator-application-service crashed with SIGSEGV in g_type_instance_get_private()" bugs, all having this problem in the apply_status() function.
<qense> tedg: What do you think of <https://code.launchpad.net/~qense/indicator-application/appstore-private-macro-calls/+merge/29492>? Sensible change or not?
#ayatana 2010-07-09
<LaserJock> does anybody know what I need to do to get the unity sidebar to recognize an app?
<LaserJock> I'm guessing I need a .desktop file somewhere
 * LaserJock blows into the mic, "is this thing on?"
<jcastro> it's on, I just don't think anyone's around, heh
<jcastro> LaserJock: my unity isn't running very well at all so I've been on normal desktop for a bit
<seb128> njpatel, ^
<seb128> should Jason be on this channel?
<seb128> LaserJock, it's using bamf for it
<seb128> which I think need a desktop entry to do a nice job
<seb128> LaserJock, but it works for others applications which don't have one
<njpatel> LaserJock, it is a bug that should be fixed with Monday's releases
<njpatel> LaserJock, you shouldn't require a .desktop file (although it helps to have a nice icon etc), but the code to deal with the "no desktop file" situation had a bug in it
<LaserJock> njpatel: oh, ok, awesome
<LaserJock> is #ayatana and ayatana mailing-list still the best for Unity?
<seb128> I guess it is yes
<LaserJock> I really wish there could be some sort of ubuntu-netbook channels
<seb128> because that one has so much activity it's hard to filter topics? ;-)
<LaserJock> not so much on IRC
<LaserJock> but I avoid the mailing list like the plague
<LaserJock> Ayatana is way more than Unity and ubuntu-netbook
<LaserJock> but you're right, this channel isn't exactly #ubuntu
<mxpxpod> I installed the application menu yesterday and it worked pretty well, but then I did an update this morning and now no menus get sucked into it... is this a known problem?
<jcastro> after you update did you log out and back in?
<mxpxpod> yup
<mxpxpod> I just did it
<jcastro> what versions of indicator-appmenu and appmenu-gtk to you have?
<mxpxpod> indicator-appmenu: 0.0.8-0lucid1
<mxpxpod> appmenu-gtk: 0.1.1-0lucid1
<jcastro> hmm
<jcastro> mxpxpod: can you file a bug please?
<jcastro> -appmenu didn't change so please file it against "appmenu-gtk"
<mxpxpod> jcastro: sure... do you need to know gtk versions and all that?
<jcastro> mxpxpod: yeah report it with ubuntu-bug and it should grab all that
<jcastro> ubuntu-bug appmenu-gtk
<mxpxpod> it's telling me it can't be reported because it's not a genuine ubuntu package
<jcastro> bah, that's right
<jcastro> ok just file it by hand and include the information that you think is relevant
<jcastro> mention that it was working until appmenu-gtk: 0.1.1-0lucid1
<mxpxpod> aha, wait
<mxpxpod> I have the gnome-shell PPA installed, which looks like it overrode the une PPA's gtk
<jcastro> ah yeah
<jcastro> that'll do it
<mxpxpod> I'm in the process of downgrading as we speak ;)
<jcastro> both -shell and unity are pretty fast moving and their deps are fast moving, mixing the PPAs is probably bad
<mxpxpod> yeah ;)
<mxpxpod> is there a quick way to downgrade these packages?
<jcastro> there's a tool called ppa purge in one of the xorg edgers PPAs
<jcastro> ymmv, etc.
<jcastro> <-- lunch, good luck!
<mxpxpod> :) thanks
<mxpxpod> jcastro: ok, that did it
<mxpxpod> jcastro: thanks for the help
#ayatana 2010-07-10
<aday> anybody able to help test this nautilus bug? https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=518305
<ubot5> Gnome bug 518305 in general "interface: main toolbar in browser mode slows down startup" [Major,Unconfirmed]
#ayatana 2011-07-04
<didrocks> good morning
<oSoMoN> good morning
<zniavre> indicator will be available for gnome3 classic-session ?
<zniavre> good morning **
<zniavre> and .... how to use the new modial/dialog windows please ?
<zniavre> im thinking it's compiz setting am i wrong ?
<zniavre> if yes how to use it without unity/unity2d ?
<zniavre> (im using Oneiric with gnome-classic session)  no unity/no gnome-shell
<smspillaz> njpatel: I'm aallliiiiiivvveee
<njpatel> smspillaz, that's fine, I'll just ask everyone to ignore you :)
<smspillaz> fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
<htorque> greetings, everyone! i have a question: how do i turn off the window shadow in oneiric? i commented out the shadow keys in the metacity theme, but didn't seem to work like in natty.
<njpatel> htorque, not sure, maybe make the radius 0.0?
<htorque> njpatel: will try
<htorque> hm, nope
<om26er> fta, Hi! did you stop stop gwibber daily updates in the ppa or something bad happened? ;)
<fta> om26er, indeed, ken asked me too
<fta> -too+to stop
<om26er> fta, i take that he wants to make the new look surprise for people ;-)
<Daekdroom> New look? :)
<fta> om26er, he was supposed to move the daily to lp recipes.. as i'm shutting down my bot
<om26er> fta, ok that, thanks :)
<zniavre> good evening
<zniavre> doe s new modial dialog msut be like that ? > http://i.imgur.com/xaaYs.jpg
<zniavre> must*
<BigWhale> Greetings
#ayatana 2011-07-05
<didrocks> good morning
<zniavre> good morning #ayatana
<oSoMoN> good morning
<MacSlow> hi there everyone
<jderose> hi MacSlow :)
<MacSlow> hey there jderose
<jderose> MacSlow: http://jderose.blogspot.com/2011/07/designing-pro-creative-apps-part-2.html :-D
<jjardon> hi, how can I update the contents of a indicator menu? (I'm not using DbusmenuMenu)
<jjardon> Id like to rebuild the menu every time is displayed
<njpatel> jjardon, ted should be on in a bit
<Mark__T> kenvandine: hi
<kenvandine> hey Mark__T
<Mark__T> kenvandine: can I throw a libdbusmenu build issue at you?
<kenvandine> sure
<Mark__T> kenvandine: http://dpaste.com/563243/
<Mark__T> I use these patches for gtk: http://dpaste.com/563244/
<Mark__T> kenvandine: ringing any bells?
<kenvandine> can you paste your /usr/share/gir-1.0/Gdk-2.0.gir
<Mark__T> kenvandine: dbusmenu 0.4.5 that is
<kenvandine> Mark__T, well you have the gtk patch that should fix that
<kenvandine> Mark__T, you should have a line like this in it
<kenvandine>   <package name="gdk-2.0"/>
<Mark__T> kenvandine: nope
<Mark__T> need to add
<kenvandine> well you have the patch that adds that
<kenvandine> or should
<Mark__T> which gtk patch adds this in ubuntu?
<kenvandine> 065_gir_set_packages.patch
<Mark__T> ok
<kenvandine> Mark__T, double check that patch is current
<kenvandine> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/gtk/ubuntu/view/head:/debian/patches/065_gir_set_packages.patch
<Mark__T> kenvandine: +Gdk_2_0_gir_EXPORT_PACKAGES = gdk-2.0
<kenvandine> yup
<kenvandine> there are like 3 of those
<Mark__T> yep
<Mark__T> patch from March
<Mark__T> kenvandine: well I got it yesterday because of that issue
<kenvandine> dunno then, that should work
<Mark__T> probably I did something stupid
<Mark__T> will check later have to run
<kenvandine> good luck
<Mark__T> thx
<andyrock> njpatel, i resolved the conflicts
<kenvandine> Mark__T, any time
<njpatel> andyrock, yep, I saw, was just testing it out again now and then merge!
<njpatel> andyrock, excellent work dude :)
<andyrock> njpatel, thx... can you test also with a cd-rom?
<njpatel> andyrock, not at the moment but I'll make sure to do so
<andyrock> njpatel, thx again
<jjardon> hey tedg, how can I update the contents of a indicator menu? Id like to rebuild the menu every time is displayed. I guess I can use the notify::visible signal
<tedg> jjardon, Yeah, there are also open calls from the panel.  But, in general, I'd just update the label when you get the updates from upower, no?
<tedg> jjardon, indicator_object_entry_activate()
<jjardon> tedg:yeah, I already update the label, but I have to update the status of every device connected: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BatteryStatusMenu
<tedg> jjardon, But, don't you need that info for keeping the icon up-to-date as well?
<tedg> jjardon, So you're already pulling it over dbus, and GTK doesn't do much work if the surface isn't visible.
<jjardon> tedg: the icon/label is updated when I receive a signal from g-p-m about a change in the power in the main device
<tedg> jjardon, Oh, I thought the icon on the panel in low power states was the device that was going to run flat first, no?
<jjardon> tedg: you are rigth. but the current version only support 1 device
<jjardon> but the question is how to update the menu, I rebuild the menu with every change but seems that doesnt work
<tedg> jjardon, You shouldn't have to rebuild it per se, just update the label/icon, no?
<jjardon> tedg: I update the label with a simple gtk_label_set_label (GTK_LABEL (priv->label); , but if I modify priv->menu, the changes doesnt seems to be applied
<tedg> jjardon, Hmm, yeah.  I'm not sure what'll happen if you change the menu.  Why would you need to replace the base menu structure?
<jjardon> tedg: because more devices can be added or removed, and their power status can change also
<tedg> jjardon, gtk_menu_shell_insert()
<jjardon> tedg: ok, problem solved, you were rigth, I shouldn't have to rebuild the menu
<jjardon> tedg: btw https://launchpad.net/indicator-power/
<tedg> jjardon, Sweet, I'll take a look.
<jjardon> tedg: thanks. should be totally functional for the most common case: only one main power source
<tedg> kenvandine, Could you perhaps start looking at packaging that so people have a power icon? ^
<tedg> kenvandine, The natives are getting restless
<kenvandine> tedg, will do
<tedg> kenvandine, Thank you!
<tedg> njpatel, What's the $(top_srcdir)/missing part of the Makefile.am command for creating the ChangeLog do?  Seems you'd have an error to catch either way, no?
<njpatel> tedg, not sure, it was converted from the git script GNOME uses many eons ago
<njpatel> I'm sure there's a reason
<jjardon> tedg: http://sources.redhat.com/automake/automake.html#maintainer_002dmode
<jjardon> tedg: the original script: http://live.gnome.org/Git/ChangeLog
<tedg> jjardon, Hmm, then why is missing not there?
<tedg> jjardon, Seems that bzr (or git) shouldn't really be a maintainer tool though.
<jjardon> tedg: the missing script? Its in the build-aux directory
<tedg> jjardon, Ah, so a better way to do my patch would be to use it there.
<tedg> jjardon, I'll fix that.
<tedg> Cool, someone did a release of Planner.
<tedg> Love to see that project not die.
<tedg> kenvandine, So Trevino submitted some patches to clean up our scroll support.
<tedg> kenvandine, But it'll force a transition in a bunch of packages.
<tedg> kenvandine, I'm guessing you want that after the alpha release.
<tedg> kenvandine, No?
 * kenvandine grumbles
<kenvandine> yes
<kenvandine> like which packages?
<tedg> kenvandine, indicator-*
<kenvandine> scroll support?
<tedg> kenvandine, Mostly just a small patch and a rebuild.
 * kenvandine doesn't see the relationship
<tedg> kenvandine, Yeah.  We put a function in there to pass scroll info from the panel to the indicator.  But it needed more info, so we made two.  And this cleans it up to one correct one.
<kenvandine> ah
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> lets wait until after a2
<tedg> Sounds good.  I'll get libindicator ready, but I won't release it until then.
<m_conley> chrisccoulson: hey - so I just did a reinstall, and now I've got Messaging Menu!  No Unity Launcher though.
<chrisccoulson> m_conley, right, that's expected. i haven't added the launcher extension yet, but that's next
<chrisccoulson> i wonder what happened the first time though :/
<m_conley> chrisccoulson: ah, wonderful.  Ok, cool.  :)
<m_conley> chrisccoulson:  I probably installed TB at the wrong time.
<m_conley> chrisccoulson: something like that.
<chrisccoulson> m_conley, so, a new beta build of tbird this week then? ;)
<chrisccoulson> i'm ready to go already!
<chrisccoulson> m_conley, do you think we should merge the functionality of unitylauncher-extension in to messagingmenu-extension? it seems like they share a lot of functionality already
<chrisccoulson> and it means we would show 1 less extension in the addons manager by default
<m_conley> chrisccoulson: hm - yes, that might be a good idea.  Some sort of general Unity Integration addon.
#ayatana 2011-07-06
<didrocks> good morning
<oSoMoN> good morning
<MacSlow> greetings everyone
<andyrock> njpatel, ping
<njpatel> andyrock, hey
<njpatel> andyrock, dude, I recompiled your branch yesterday and none of my branches were showing up!
<njpatel> branches?
<njpatel> devices
<andyrock> njpatel, in ccsm the device option is Only Mounted right?
<njpatel> andyrock, yes, i tried all the device options
<andyrock> njpatel, how do you start unity?
<njpatel> andyrock, also, you connect to GSettings automatically, but we have FavouriteStore to hide the implementation (and provide a nicer interface)
<njpatel> andyrock, compiz --replace
<andyrock> njpatel, from tty?
<njpatel> andyrock, from gnome-terminal
<andyrock> njpatel, this is weird...
<andyrock> njpatel, sometimes if i start unity (and compiz) form tty (alt+ctrl+f1) gio stuff doesn't work
<njpatel> andyrock, yeah, I'll try the branch again with clean compile in a couple of hours (in the office and have some meetings)
<njpatel> andyrock, interestin
<njpatel> andyrock, could you take a look at the favoritestore thing and i'll ping you once I've had a chance to rebuild?
<andyrock> njpatel, i think the problem is in gio/glib... but i start unity from gnome-terminal it should work...
<njpatel> andyrock, I'll also try logging out and logging in
<andyrock> njpatel, of course...
<njpatel> andyrock, I always start from gnome-terminal, that's why I was a bit worried
<andyrock> njpatel, so DevicesSettings should be derived from favoritestore right?
<andyrock> njpatel, i will look it this afternoon... i have to go to gym now :)
<njpatel> andyrock, I think use the FavoritesStore instance (I think it's a singleton)
<njpatel> andyrock, okay, have fun! :)
<andyrock> njpatel, you too (meetings etc. :P )
<andyrock> njpatel, do you have a moment?
<njpatel> andyrock, somewhat, what's up?
<andyrock> njpatel, about FavoriteStore...
<andyrock> njpatel, FavoriteStoreGSettings derive from FavoriteStore
<andyrock> DeviceSettings could derive from FavoriteStore...
<andyrock> but in FavoriteStore.cpp we have:
<andyrock> FavoriteStore& FavoriteStore::GetDefault()
<andyrock> {
<andyrock>   static internal::FavoriteStoreGSettings instance;
<andyrock>   return instance;
<andyrock> }
<njpatel> andyrock, yeah
<andyrock> njpatel, it'a a bit weird as a super class :)
<andyrock> njpatel, maybe i can join DeiviceSettings in FavoriteStoreGSettings...
<njpatel> andyrock, agreed :)
<njpatel> andyrock, it's thumper's doing ;)
<njpatel> andyrock, it's nice to have them sepeaate to be able to test them separately
<njpatel> separate*
<andyrock> njpatel, i don't understand.... can you make an example?
<andyrock> njpatel, please :)
<njpatel> andyrock, I just mean that, in devices settings, when you change the gsettings stuff, you should just be using FavoriteStore instead
<njpatel> andyrock, i.e. there should be no "GSettings" in DeviceSettings, just FavoriteStore
<andyrock> njpatel, but FavoriteStore is an abstract/virtual class...
<njpatel> andyrock, FavoriteStore::GetDefault () gives you the singleton that you need to work on
<njpatel> work with *
<andyrock> seb128, around?
<seb128> yes
<andyrock> seb128, about this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/806485
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 806485 in unity (Ubuntu) "[oneiric] unity::PanelIndicatorObjectEntryView::Refresh() is leaking" [High,New]
<seb128> yes?
<andyrock> seb128, a g_object_unref(stream) in make_pixbuf should be good...
<seb128> right
<seb128> we discussed it with thumper earlier and that's what he suggested as well
<andyrock> seb128, but i have a question for you :) can you give me the right valgrind command to collect information? :)
<seb128> but feel free to do a merge request to fix it ;-)
<seb128> andyrock, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Valgrind
<seb128> use the command from there on "compiz --replace"
<andyrock> seb128, g_input_stream_close doesn't unref the stream...
<andyrock> seb128, ok thx
<seb128> right, the api documentation is not really clear, it could suggest that it needs to be freed
<andyrock> agreed
<jcastro> Hi!
<jcastro> anyone here for the unity contributor meeting?
<jcastro> ok, looks like no one has pending issues, so I'll just stand by if people have questions
#ayatana 2011-07-07
<didrocks> good morning
<oSoMoN> good morning
<MacSlow> ola
<apw> i think i have found another application that 100% triggers the unity stacking bug.  asking update-manager to do an update seems to do it
<MrChrisDruif> Aloha oukou
<MrChrisDruif> Is there anyone here around that works on the workspace switcher?
<njpatel> MrChrisDruif, smspillaz does
<MrChrisDruif> Thanks njpatel :)
<MrChrisDruif> Aloha smspillaz, you around?
<tedg> kenvandine, libindicator merge posted: https://code.launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers/libindicator/ubuntu/+merge/67188
<tedg> kenvandine, Let the transition begin!
<kenvandine> tedg, good times
<tedg> kenvandine, I had to do some "packaging" (all packaging I do deserves quotes around it) so you should double check it :-)
<kenvandine> will do
<jjardon> tedg: support for multiple devices added
<jjardon> but I can only test with AC and the main battery here
<tedg> jjardon, Hmm, could you perhaps put together an e-mail of what you need testing wise and post it to ubuntu-desktop?  I guess we need to make sure kenvandine has the latest in the archive first though.
<jjardon> tedg: Do you want me to wait to kenvandine package then?
<tedg> jjardon, I'd start writing it and figuring out what debugging out put you want for errors -- kenvandine is pretty quick :-)
<jjardon> tedg: also, about indicator_image_helper_update() Seems that it doesnt handle icons of type: battery-full-charging-symbolic
<jjardon> the same icon works in the menu
<andyrock> i found a memory leaking... should i submit a bug?
<tedg> andyrock, Yup!
<tedg> jjardon, Hmm, I think the function needs to go away mostly as now in GTK3 it can support fallbacks in GtkImage.
<jjardon> oh, perfect
<andyrock> tedg, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/806984
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 806984 in unity (Ubuntu) "TrashLauncherIcon::UpdateTrashIconCb is leaking" [Undecided,New]
<tedg> Ewww, the trash is leaking.
<andyrock> tedg, the return value of indicator_desktop_shortcuts_nick_get_name should be freed?
<tedg> andyrock, Yes
<andyrock> g_free... ok thx
<kenvandine> tedg, did you plan to move the debugging env stuff to /etc/X11/Xsession.d/ ?
<tedg> kenvandine, Isn't that where it's always been?
<kenvandine> nope
<kenvandine> was in datadir
<tedg> Why would it be in datadir?
<kenvandine> so it didn't automatically source unless you wanted it to
<tedg> Don't you have to install the dev package to get it?
<kenvandine>  /usr/share/libindicator/80indicator-debugging
<kenvandine> the tools
<kenvandine> you had put it there :)
<kenvandine> oh interesting... looking at the Makefile.am, it looks like it still should
<kenvandine> weird
<kenvandine>  xsessiondir = $(pkgdatadir)
 * kenvandine scratches head
<kenvandine> tools/Makefile.in:pkgdatadir = $(datadir)/@PACKAGE@
<kenvandine> tools/Makefile.am:xsessiondir = $(pkgdatadir)
<kenvandine> so wtf... why is it installing in /etc!
<kenvandine> tedg, you didn't run into this when you built it?
<tedg> kenvandine, I didn't check where the file was placed...
<tedg> kenvandine, Let me see where my packages put it.
<kenvandine> well the pkg would have failed to build
<kenvandine> the .install file looks for it in pkgdatadir
<kenvandine> the Makefile.in has:
<kenvandine> xsessiondir = $(sysconfdir)/X11/Xsession.d
<kenvandine> xsession_DATA = 80indicator-debugging
<tedg> kenvandine, The package built and put it in /usr
<kenvandine> humm... looking at trunk
<kenvandine> tools/Makefile.am has
<kenvandine> xsessiondir = $(sysconfdir)/X11/Xsession.d
<kenvandine> but tools/Makefile.am in the packaging branch has pkgdatadir
<tedg> kenvandine, I'm guessing "you had put it there" was incorrect ;-)
<kenvandine> yup!
<kenvandine> and that file hasn't changed since january....
<kenvandine> so an autogen.sh from trunk would put it where it is going now
<tedg> kenvandine, Here is the file list from the packages I built: http://paste.ubuntu.com/639507/
<jcastro> Anyone up for some reviews?
<kenvandine> ok... so the question is do we want to install it in pkgdatadir or sysconfdir?
<jcastro> https://code.launchpad.net/~oier/unity-place-applications/globalSearchZeitgeist/+merge/64463
<jcastro> https://code.launchpad.net/~sao/unity-place-applications/load-history-when-activating/+merge/65099
<kenvandine> tedg, right... that is where the package in oneiric puts it too
<kenvandine> tedg, but... the Makefile.in in the tarball thinks otherwise
<jcastro> njpatel: those have been sitting a while, we need to check -place-applications every once in a while too. :)
<kenvandine> tedg, i am going to tweak the Makefile.in in the packaging branch for now
<kenvandine> i'll propose a branch fixing Makefile.am :)
<tedg> kenvandine, Heh
<kenvandine> tedg, did you maybe get ABI and API version switched around?
<tedg> kenvandine, ?
<kenvandine> W: libindicator3-4: package-name-doesnt-match-sonames libindicator3-6
<kenvandine> W: libindicator4: package-name-doesnt-match-sonames libindicator6
<tedg> kenvandine, Oh, I guess I should have bumped it a bit.
<kenvandine> ?
<tedg> kenvandine, I wanted to make the /lib/*/ dir match the lib name.
<tedg> kenvandine, So I guess it should be 6.
<kenvandine> oh...
<tedg> kenvandine, Trying to make it so everything matches something.
<tedg> :-)
<kenvandine> ok, i'll update the packaging
<kenvandine> tedg, i also gutted libindicator's rules file to simplify the dual build
<tedg> kenvandine, Woot!  ;-)
<tedg> kenvandine, I made it so GTK3 was default.
<kenvandine> yeah, i proposed a branch related to that :)
<kenvandine> you didn't update the help message
<kenvandine> :-D
<kenvandine> details...
<tedg> kenvandine, This is why we have you detail people ;-)
 * tedg thinks help is for loosers ;-)
<kenvandine> hehe
<andyrock> njpatel, ping :)
<andyrock> njpatel, about devices branch... your devices/volumes are automounted ones?
<mpt> tedg, hi, did you see this? https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana/msg06176.html
<tedg> mpt, Yeah, I couldn't find any screenshots with freeciv having embedded menubars.
<mpt> tedg, did you reply?
<tedg> mpt, No I haven't.  I looked, and then forgot :-)
<tedg> Need to look up the setting to make a menu bar not get exported.
<cyphermox> tedg: ping, about libappindicator about-to-show and stuff
<tedg> cyphermox, Yes
<cyphermox> tedg, after further thought, what I need is really just doing something when the menu is going to be shown and hold it long enough to replace the items, I think the merge proposal I had (https://code.launchpad.net/~mathieu-tl/libappindicator/about-to-show/+merge/63610) achieves just that
<tedg> cyphermox, I thought it didn't hold... correct?
<tedg> cyphermox, Seems it needs to return a boolean, no?
<cyphermox> oh, maybe it does, but that would be the only thing
<cyphermox> under what cases would it *not* required holding?
<cyphermox> (afaict, my use case always does, since I want to update the menu, so it makes no sense to show it before updating)
<tedg> cyphermox, Where you don't want to update the menu.
<tedg> cyphermox, So there's no reason to introduce the delay
<cyphermox> huh, but why listen to the signal then?
<cyphermox> oh, I see, nm
<tedg> jjardon, Can you make a indicator-power tarball for kenvandine?
<kenvandine> https://code.launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/indicator-power/packaging_fixes/+merge/67229
<kenvandine> jjardon, ^^
<njpatel> andyrock, yeah, automounted ones
<andyrock> njpatel, ok... my mistake :) when you have a moment, test the last commit
<njpatel> andyrock, thanks, will do!
<andyrock> njpatel, thx YOU!
<jjardon> tedg: sure
<jjardon> kenvandine: merged, thanks
<jjardon> tedg: whare I should upload the tarball?
<kenvandine> jjardon, launchpad
<kenvandine> create a release on LP and add the tarball
<jjardon> kenvandine: https://launchpad.net/indicator-power/trunk/0.1
<kenvandine> jjardon, thx
<jjardon> please, ping me if something is not correct
<kenvandine> jjardon, will do
<kenvandine> jjardon, does indicator-power still need to be updated to the new libindicator api changes?
<kenvandine> jjardon, tedg: i have uploaded it, it's in the source NEW queue now
<kenvandine> tedg, i assume someone needs to fix up ordering so the power indicator doesn't display to the far right
<tedg> kenvandine, Yup, that's a njpatel thing.
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> njpatel, ^^
<kenvandine> :)
 * kenvandine loves how tedg just passes the buck
<kenvandine> :-D
<tedg> njpatel, HOPE YOU WEREN'T DOING ANYTHING IMPORTANT!
<tedg> :-)
<tedg> kenvandine, It's a complex system with detailed interdependencies that always result in it not being my job.
<njpatel> what the fudge?
<njpatel> tedg, haha
<njpatel> tedg, kenvandine where is it meant to be displayed?
<tedg> njpatel, Just need to put indicator-power in the indicator list.
<njpatel> also, patches welcome
<njpatel> ;)
<njpatel> mpt, where in the indicator order should indicator-power go?
<tedg> njpatel, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MenuBar#System_status_menus_.28system_indicators.29
<mpt> Ah, tedg was too fast for me :)
<njpatel> oh, fun
<njpatel> between battery and me
<njpatel> wait
<njpatel> the ordering is wrong currently then?
<tedg> njpatel, Also the libindicator 0.4 has the name hints.  So you should be able to flip around network.
<tedg> njpatel, Yes
<njpatel> sweet
<tedg> njpatel, Well, more correctly, it moved.
<njpatel> right :)
<njpatel> so when does indicator-me die?
<tedg> Next week.
<kenvandine> tedg, see my message to jjardon about updating it to the new libindicator?  that still needs to be done right?
<tedg> kenvandine, Yeah, it does.
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> tedg, are you going to get me releases for all the indicators today?
<tedg> kenvandine, Trying, libappindicator is being weird...
<kenvandine> tedg, ok, well they should all be held back in updates anyway
<kenvandine> since libindicator6 breaks libindicator3
<tedg> Apparently you can't install anything if you -force-breaks...
<tedg> Anyone want a really easy review?  https://code.launchpad.net/~ted/libappindicator/lp784327/+merge/64933
<njpatel> tedg, done ;)
<tedg> njpatel, Thanks, I feel more free now :-)
<njpatel> Indeed, and I'm riding high on the karma bus
<tedg> Now that I know there's an Atom feed of commits I feel more pressure to have a complete list updated daily ;-)
<sao> has someone time to review merge request https://code.launchpad.net/~sao/unity-place-applications/load-history-when-activating/+merge/65099 ?
<cyphermox> tedg: just about any option for on-signal menu creation seems like a major PITA. would it be acceptable to just expose the dbusmenu root menuitem somehow so one could watch for the signals?
<tedg> cyphermox, You can already get it through a property "dbus-menu-server"
<cyphermox> right
<tedg> cyphermox, Why is a return value hard?
<tedg> cyphermox, Just set up the signal to be BOOL__VOID ?
<tedg> cyphermox, You just need to use the collector function for the type.
<cyphermox> how can I return a value to the dbusmenumenuitem signal depending on the return value of the appindicator signal?
<tedg> cyphermox, The prototype for the dbusmenu one returns a boolean
<tedg> cyphermox, You collect those yourself, and then pass back the result.
<cyphermox> mmkay. still seems rather complicated when I could just get the root menuitem from the server and connect to the signal directly
<cyphermox> or it's just beyond my glib and google fu.
<tedg> cyphermox, I mean either way it works... what ever you'd prefer.
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> well I'll try using the properties to get the server and root node, see how that goes
<kenvandine> tedg, since you have the new libindicator, can you take a look at the indicator-sound tarball?
<kenvandine> libtool is angry
<kenvandine> wondering if there was something funky going on when ronoc created it
<tedg> kenvandine, Heh, okay.  Angry libtool!
<kenvandine> libtool: link: only absolute run-paths are allowed
<kenvandine> but i don't see anything suspicious
<kenvandine> just that aclocal was basically completely replaces and m4/* was removed
<kenvandine> tedg, i get the same thing trying to build from trunk too...
<tedg> kenvandine, I can't get libnotify-dev but I'm betting this fixes it: lp:~ted/indicator-sound/indicator-dir
<kenvandine> so i guess not his tarball
 * kenvandine tries
<MrChrisDruif> Is smspillaz around?
<kenvandine> tedg, well that seems kind of obvious :)
<kenvandine> tedg, yup
<kenvandine> thx
<tedg> kenvandine, Cool
<kenvandine> tedg, i am avoiding frankensteining my box right now, so relying on chroots from pbuilder :)
<tedg> kenvandine, Heh, yeah, I understand.  Right now apt wants to remove unity :-)
<kenvandine> i need to get my VM situation fixed up
<MrChrisDruif> Or anyone else that can help with desktop switcher?
<kenvandine> MrChrisDruif, desktop switcher?
<MrChrisDruif> workspace*
<kenvandine> oh, probably not me :)
<kenvandine> sorry
<kenvandine> DBO, ^^
<MrChrisDruif> DBO?
<DBO> DBO???
<kenvandine> DBO!
<DBO> DBO!
<kenvandine> :-D
<MrChrisDruif> xD
<DBO> MrChrisDruif, DBO DBO help DBO your workspace DBO switcher
<MrChrisDruif> I think kenvandine thinks DBO knows some stuff about workspace switcher ;)
<MrChrisDruif> ^_^
<kenvandine> MrChrisDruif, DBO wrote it :)
<MrChrisDruif> Ahh, great :D
<DBO> for which version of Unity
<DBO> I only wrote the mutter one
<MrChrisDruif> Stock Natty?
<DBO> the author of that one is no longer with us
<DBO> so just ask me
<DBO> whats up
<MrChrisDruif> I haven't altered it, nor looked at the one in oneiric
<DBO> its the same as in Natty
<DBO> whats up
<MrChrisDruif> Anyhow; I've got a great suggestion for a quicklist
<MrChrisDruif> for it, but I don't know if it needs to be hardcoded in...
<MrChrisDruif> http://askubuntu.com/questions/35488/list-of-custom-launchers-quicklists-for-unity/46832#46832
<DBO> kenvandine, I give you three paso, two taco, and a tortilla shell if you package Sublime Edit 2
<DBO> in Oneiric it wont need to be hardcoded
<DBO> however the API for modifying it is not yet created
<DBO> so :/
<DBO> I dont know what to tell you right now
<MrChrisDruif> Well, if it would be easy to add that little quicklist to it or if I could fill a bug for it?
<MrChrisDruif> That link is already functional, but it's a separate icon...I'd really like it to be integrated with "your" workspace switcher :)
<DBO> file a bug along the lines of "libunity cannot add quicklist items to non-application launchers"
<MrChrisDruif> xD
<DBO> kenvandine, 3 tacos, but that is my final offer
<kenvandine> DBO, binary only?
<kenvandine> ugh
<DBO> its a paid app
<kenvandine> i do like tacos though :)
<DBO> so I assume that you need to get him involved
<kenvandine> we should get them to put it in the software center
<kenvandine> :)
<DBO> but seriously, I want this in the software center so bad
<DBO> kenvandine, twitter at him http://twitter.com/#!/sublimehq
<MrChrisDruif> Sublime?
<kenvandine> DBO, will do
<DBO> MrChrisDruif, its an excellent text editor
<DBO> if you do lots of programming
<DBO> I suggest buying it
<DBO> its worth the $60
<MrChrisDruif> "If" I would program a lot ;)
<kenvandine> DBO, i tweeted at him :)
<MrChrisDruif> You sound like a fan talking to his idol ;)
<MrChrisDruif> No offense of course
<DBO> kenvandine, Im not above groveling
<kenvandine> DBO, if he responds, i'll off up helping to get it packaged
<DBO> MrChrisDruif, me? I am a fan
<DBO> good text editors on Linux are few and far between
<DBO> rarely have I ever been impressed by one that wasn't named emacs or vim
<MrChrisDruif> DBO; I meant kenvandine ;)
<bdrung_> hi, is there a plugin (or similar) that gives me a calculator in the dash?
<Daekdroom> bdrung_, never heard of anything like that.
#ayatana 2011-07-08
<RAOF> bdrung_: It's called GNOME Do :P
<LLStarks> hi, if the expose doesn't work while gnome-terminal is in f11 fullscreen, is that a bug for unity or gnome-terminal?
<RAOF> Unity.
<RAOF> Well, probably compiz :)
<LLStarks> k thx
<didrocks> good morning
<oSoMoN> good morning
<MacSlow> greetings
<oSoMoN> hey MacSlow
<RAOF> njpatel: Hah!  I finally have a server that emits raw events regardless of grabs.
<njpatel> RAOF, awesome!!
<RAOF> njpatel: I can throw it in a PPA if you'd like; I'm not going to upload it immediately before the weekend :)
<njpatel> RAOF, I don't think I'll be able to use it before next week, so I can probably wait for upload into O
<njpatel> RAOF, but, thank you so much :)
<jjardon> Hi, Im seeing a bunch of updates today. What is a good time to upgrade?
<jjardon> ie, the upgrades are always at the period of time in the day or there is not a fixed plan for them?
<njpatel> jjardon, I think there is a huge transition going on with *indicat* right now
<njpatel> seb128, ^
<jjardon> njpatel: yeah, I know :/
<njpatel> yeah, so don't upgrade :D
<njpatel> jjardon, ted has this effect on ubuntu where everything breaks ;)
<jjardon> late ;)
<jjardon> mmm, after the upgrade: No package 'indicator3-0.4' found, shouldnt be indicator-0.4 ?
<njpatel> jjardon, it's indicator3-0.4 now I believe
<njpatel> jjardon, tedg hates us
<tedg> njpatel, No, just you.
<tedg> :-)
<jjardon> pkg-config --list-all | grep indicator
<tedg> There was some collateral damage though
<njpatel> :D
<jjardon> indicator-0.4                       libindicator - libindicator.
<tedg> jjardon, GTK2 version, GTK3 is indicator3-0.4
<kenvandine> jjardon, the new libindicator got built and NEWd before indicator-power to built..
<kenvandine> jjardon, so how is the update of indicator-power for the new libindicator coming :)
<jjardon> kenvandine: I'm working on that ;)
<kenvandine> thx :)
<jjardon> but I get a sstrange error when compiling: libtool: link: only absolute run-paths are allowed
<jjardon> (the same happens in indicator-sound)
<kenvandine> ah!
<kenvandine> look in your configure.ac
<kenvandine> you missed changing one of the pkg-config calls
<kenvandine> at least that is what was wrong with indicator-sound
<jjardon> kenvandine: trying indicator-sound trunk now and the same problem persist
<kenvandine> where it sets INDICATORDIR
<kenvandine> jjardon, i don't think that fix has been merged yet
<kenvandine> lp:~ted/indicator-sound/indicator-dir/
<kenvandine> -		INDICATORDIR=`$PKG_CONFIG --variable=indicatordir indicator3`
<kenvandine> +		INDICATORDIR=`$PKG_CONFIG --variable=indicatordir indicator3-0.4`
<kenvandine> same for INDICATORICONSDIR
<kenvandine> jjardon, looking at that, i see indicator-power still has gtk2 cruft in configure.ac... :)
<jjardon> kenvandine: yeah, just fixing it ;)
<kenvandine> :)
<tedg> You guys should really read the mail I sent to ayatana-dev on this issue :-)
 * tedg pouts, no one listens to me :-(
<tedg> You know there is no emoticon for pout.  Interesting.
<andyrock> is there a member of the design team?
<andyrock> njpatel, when you have a moment we can debug my branch...
<jjardon> kenvandine: https://launchpad.net/indicator-power/trunk/0.2 ;)
<om26er> could anyone with the appropriate right re-open this bug 772612
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 772612 in compiz (Ubuntu Natty) "maximized window is displaced" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/772612
<kenvandine> jjardon, thx!
<om26er> and also smspillaz the compiz branch attached in bug 772612 creates a regression i.e. unity does not start, even the classic session hangs with high cpu usage
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 772612 in compiz (Ubuntu Natty) "maximized window is displaced" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/772612
<andyrock> DBO, around?
<DBO> andyrock, yes
<Trevinho> DBO: could you give a look to my merge request for BAMF? :)
<DBO> yes
<andyrock> DBO, i have a question about a bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/761155
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 761155 in unity-2d "[launcher] Workspace Switcher icon cannot be moved" [Medium,Confirmed]
<DBO> Trevinho, reading now
<DBO> will merge if all is well :)
<Trevinho> Ok fine... thanks DBO...
<Trevinho> And... For the wm_class thing, i've some ideas...
<andyrock> DBO, is not a technique question, but a "design" question :)
<Trevinho> I think I will "speak" with some code as soon as I can....
<DBO> andyrock, ask away
<andyrock> DBO, if all icon can be moved in the launcher, when we add another icon (i.e. opening a new app), where it should be positioned?
<Trevinho> but, there's already something that is not related to us, but mostly to libwnck... and his missing class APIs. Now the ubuntu package include some new APIs that I've added through a patch that libwnck are reviewing
<DBO> andyrock, logically it would end up at the very end
<DBO> which... sucks
<DBO> andyrock, logically it would end up at the very end
<DBO> which... sucks
<DBO> Trevinho, you rock :)
<Trevinho> No... I don't.. :P
<Trevinho> Did you see that I also patched libSDL as you requested in their bugzilla?
<andyrock> DBO, we could add the app icon after the last app icon...
<DBO> Trevinho, no
<DBO> awesome!
<Trevinho> Patch is in their bugzilla both for libSDL-1.2 and libSDL-1.3
<DBO> andyrock, that would be confusing and random
<Trevinho> however the ubuntu package is including it now
<Trevinho> so pygame apps are now working fine with BAMF :P
<DBO> YES!
<andyrock> Trevinho, DBO is booking :P
<DBO> andyrock, if you can mix all icons together, logically they are all "the same thing"
<andyrock> *ed
<DBO> andyrock, therefor, when a new one opens
<DBO> you only have 2 logical spots
<DBO> top or bottom
<DBO> top sucks because it causes too much motion
<DBO> so bottom!
<Trevinho> andyrock: now that I've found him, I won't leave this precious guy to you only! :D
<andyrock> Trevinho, i hate you :)
<Trevinho> andyrock:  Me too... :P
<Trevinho> ops... you too! :D
<Trevinho> however... Despite on what you say... I know that your heart totally loves me!
<andyrock> Trevinho, i miss you :( <3
<Trevinho> DBO: for the WM_CLASS thing, however... I was thinking that if some windows shares the tuple (or triple) (wm_class_name, wm_class_resource, desktop_file) they are *always* belonging to the same app
<Trevinho> so that mix can be used for generating their app_id too... That shouldn't be confusing at all
<DBO> yes that's probably true
<Trevinho> of course applications can set bad "wm_class" that could make BAMF to crash, but we could avoid this in two ways
<Trevinho> tracking if that bus name already exist, or just keeping a list of known buses...
<Trevinho> or... Move to gdbus (that I'm planning)
<njpatel> Trevinho, before you work on moving BAMF to d-bus, would appreciate a chat
<Trevinho> gdbus...
<Trevinho> ok :P
<njpatel> yes, gdbus :)
<DBO> yes, gdbus
<Trevinho> Ah... About this fact... and to libbamf... I was wondering: why don't we move that library to vala when moving to gdbus? It would make the code more easy to maintain... However I don't know if we could keep the API compatibility
 * DBO glares at Trevinho
<DBO> no
<Trevinho> Ok... :D
<Trevinho> Any other reason for this?
<Trevinho> DBO ?
<DBO> Vala == easier to maintain, WAY harder to debug
<Trevinho> Mh, no that much...
<DBO> okay, can I just go "personal bias" here?
<Trevinho> Also because it's just a wrapper library
<DBO> also I dont much want to see the entire lib re-written
<DBO> and it's a little more than just a wrapper
<DBO> since it does local favorites
<DBO> its a wrapper with benefits
<Trevinho> ah, ok... Yes I agree for that...
<Trevinho> however you're the boss...
<njpatel> -1 for Vala
<DBO> njpatel ^^ see what I did there
<njpatel> DBO, I did, *applauds*
<Trevinho> njpatel: what's the thing I should consider when porting?
<njpatel> Trevinho, we'll change the way it works on D-Bus to be a bit more leaner, and ditch objects
<Trevinho> Mh, ok
<Daekdroom> When I start gwibber through the messaging indicator, it won't use appmenu. What package should I report it against?
<Trevinho> Daekdroom: I guess gwibber itself
<Daekdroom> Trevinho, well, I just tested it and it affects liferea too.
<Daekdroom> So it's definitely not gwibber.
<Trevinho> Ok, so it's the indicator menu
<Daekdroom> but it doesn't affect thunderbird.
<Daekdroom> Well, I'll file it against indicator-messages and a developer will change it if necessary
<Trevinho> It could be possible that something has changed in the api and the projects you tested aren't synced yet.... I've not checked BTW.
<Daekdroom> bug 807614
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 807614 in indicator-messages (Ubuntu) "Aplications do not use appmenu when launched through messaging indicator" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/807614
#ayatana 2011-07-09
<jo-erlend> how does the launcher know which icons to display and in what sequence?
<jo-erlend> oh, I found it in dconf-editor. How come it's placed in /desktop/Unity/Launcher when the schema is called com.canonical.Unity.Launcher? I'd guess it to be located in /com/canonical/Unity/Launcher?
<andyrock> good morning all :)
