#ubuntu-meeting 2005-03-11
<Simira> uhm... are there any meetings tomorrow?
<Treenaks> not according to /topic
<Simira> no, but /topic seems somehow outdated...
<Treenaks> only a little :)
<Simira> hmm
<Simira> Mithrand1r?
<Treenaks> looks more like l33thr4nd1r :P
<Simira> yes, he should be between Brussel and Oslo right now
<Treenaks> yeah, I saw him there
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-03-12
<Simira> *waiting impatiently for Tollef to come home*
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:smurfix] : Tuesday 8 March 2005 16:00 UTC Community Council meeting -- https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CommunityCouncilAgenda || Tuesday 1 March 2005 20:00 UTC: Technical Board -- http://www.ubuntulinux.org/Hwiki/TechnicalBoardAgenda. || This is NOT #ubuntu, nor #ubuntu-devel
<smurfix> Can somebody clear the topics from the CC agenda page which were processed last time?
* smurfix could do it, but he wasn't there, so ...
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:smurfix] : Tuesday 8 March 2005 16:00 UTC Community Council meeting -- https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CommunityCouncilAgenda || Tuesday 1 March 2005 20:00 UTC: Technical Board -- http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/TechnicalBoardAgenda. || This is NOT #ubuntu, nor #ubuntu-devel
<sabdfl> hi all
<sabdfl> is the tech board meeting today also at 20h00?
* Mithrandir points sabdfl to the topic
* mako nods
<sabdfl> erk
<sabdfl> didn't think mdz meant to move ALL tb meetings, just the one week
<Kamion> I think I'd got the impression that it was a permanent change, although I don't know from where
<smurfix> Heh, whether he meant to or not, it happened. ;)
<Simira> hi silbs
<zul> hye ogra
<ogra> hi zul
<silbs> hi Simira
<sivang> hi silbs 
<Simira> silbs: I'm working on some "package solution" on merchandice-stuff for lan-parties and conferences. I was on a lan-party last week, and did some recognozation. :)
<sivang> hey Simira , everybody else
<sabdfl> -hi all
<zul> hey sabdfl 
<pitti> Hi sabdfl
<sivang> hi again sabdfl 
<Simira> hi sivang
* Mithrandir waves
<ogra> hi sabdfl
* Simira waves back
* sivang high fives Mithrandir 
<sabdfl> tech board here?
<sivang> right
<zul> hey everyone else
<sabdfl> well that's the greets taken care of - and nicely too :-)
<ogra> looks like TB ...in the topic....
<zul> hey T-Bone 
<T-Bone> hi
<sivang> some interesting stuff there wrt "WinningTheDesktop" and "WhatWindowsUsersWant" on the wiki
<Keybuk> just waiting for mdz ... :p
<pitti> sivang: indeed, this was pretty good
<sabdfl> everyone read the agenda?
<ogra> pitti: did you recognize my mail ?
<Simira> ah, right... the meeting
<mdz> morning
<sabdfl> hiya
<sabdfl> is tim morris here?
<doko> evening all
<Keybuk> evening
<mdz> I do not think he is here
<sabdfl> ok, let's get going
<mdz> I have skimmed his documents, and they are very interesting, but I do not think it is tech board material
<mdz> would make a great BOF I think
<pitti> indeed
<ogra> yup
<pitti> mdz: fits nicely into the Hoary+1 goals
<sivang> mdz: yeah
<sabdfl> his work is excellent
<ogra> looks like he did a lot of work for that
<sabdfl> some of the issues are tb, i think, in terms of signing off on specs and goals
<sivang> we could take some of the features there and actually make action items out of them for hoary+1
<mdz> we're not doing that for hoary+1 yet
<sivang> so maybe for hoary+2 :-
<Keybuk> I think mdz means we're not planning the hoary+1 goals yet
<mdz> right
<sivang> uh right , sorry
<mdz> we'll be doing that in Sydney
<mdz> where we have a huge list to discuss
<sabdfl> yes, the timing of sydney is great for feature goal plans
<Keybuk> those two pages would be a fantastic basis for a BOF or two in Sydney
<mdz> yes, I'll add it to my BOF list
<sabdfl> bof or nine, i think
<sivang> hehe
<mdz> who added this item about sending patches to Debian?
<Keybuk> sabdfl: someone only gave us a week this time ... :p
<Keybuk> mdz: me
<sabdfl> remember - the output of sydney has to be hard specs
<sabdfl> in the past we've had great discussions, but never crystallised them into specs
<sabdfl> alright, MaintainerCandidates!
<ogra> Keybuk: we will have a MOTU meeting on thursday, probably it fits better there
<mdz> lamont has been reviewing the patches spit out by MOM for quite some time now, in order to submit things upstream which have fallen through the cracks
<sabdfl> MOM?
<mdz> merge-o-matic
<ogra> Keybuk: since thats the majority of packages...
<sabdfl> right
<mdz> lamont: ?
<lamont> mdz: and that fell through the cracks last week with the kernel stuff, it's back on top of my list
<mdz> lamont: ok, please start submitting bugs this week
<Keybuk> ogra: yeah, if you could bring it up in MOTU meeting as well, that'd be good; as a few of those I've been pointed at have been universe packages
<mdz> when we last spoke, you already had a stack of things that seemed ready to submit
<ogra> Keybuk: yup, and if we dont have a policy in place before the masses run in we are lost :)
<lamont> I had a stack of known differences, then went looking at them and came up with one that was clearly a debian bug fix and not an ubuntu-ism.  That one got filed
<sabdfl> we should definitely be continuing to publish the patches, as we did for warty
<lamont> and questioned
<sabdfl> malone will allow us to automate a lot of this
<lamont> sabdfl: that'll be great
<sabdfl> where we fix a bug that malone knows is in debian, it could automatically file a note in the debian bts
<sabdfl> saying: "baz get ...."
<sivang> wow, that'd be so cool
* mdz waves his hands frantically
<Keybuk> lamont: I think part of the problem is the line between ubuntu-ism and bugs; some maintainers (Marco) want to see everything and be able to decide themselves whether it's a bug or ubuntuism
<mdz> Keybuk: perhaps we should more widely publish the MOM output
<mdz> and invite Debian maintainers to review it
<sabdfl> hold on - we have a responsibility to publish source, which we do, and where we can help notify someone of a fix to a known bug, we should, but we can't take repsonsibility for getting it all accepted
<lamont> Keybuk: one cop-out solution is to just file bugs against every package in hoary that has 'ubuntu' in the version, telling the maintainer that there's a diff.  But that's the wrong end of the spectrum, I believe
<sabdfl> if the debian maintainer wants to be tightly in the loop, let them become ubuntu maintainers and collaborate
<Keybuk> mdz: yeah, I could mail debian-devel with the URL of the m-o-m output
<lamont> Keybuk: that'd be a big step forward I think.
<sabdfl> that would be spam-o-matic
<mdz> sabdfl: we've made a statement that we'll go the extra step, and not require them to come to us in order to see what we've done
<lamont> especially given the subjective nature of what the maintainer(s) want to know about
<sabdfl> mdz: where we fix debian bugs, yes
<sabdfl> we can't do the work on both sides
<haggai> what about making a way for DDs to opt in to notifications of changes for just the packages they are interested in
<haggai> i.e. their own packages
<sabdfl> we could build that into malone, yes
<mdz> "Ubuntu contributes patches directly to Debian as bugs are fixed during the Ubuntu release process, not just when the release is actually made"
<Keybuk> does malone/launchpad provide the functionality to subscribe to a package?
<Keybuk> ala. the Debian QA system
<mdz> hypothetically
<sabdfl> mdz: we were publishing them in /patches/ which is plenty
<sabdfl> Keybuk: no, we've not spec'd that, it would be a good bof in UDU
<mdz> sabdfl: there seems to be some question about what subset of what we do, we publish
<pitti> but eventually they should be filed in the Debian BTS to track them there, too. /patches/ is too invisible and untrackable
<sabdfl> in theory we should be publishing everything
<mdz> launchpad can't be the answer to this stuff; this level of functionality is a very long way off
<dholbach> per-package RSS feeds with links to /patches/ would be cool
<mdz> sabdfl: I mean, what we push-publish
<doko> publishing the patches is /patches is a lot of work, for some packages I created an attachment in the bug report and pointed the maintainer to the bug report.
<doko> s/is/in
<sabdfl> mdz: we should *definitely* push-publish any fix for a known debian bug
<pitti> I think as soon as we do everyting in arch, we already have the corresponding changelogs for a patch, then we can publish these somewher
<haggai> doko is right, to do it manually is certainly quite time consuming
<mdz> pitti: yes, but again, this is a very long way off
<sabdfl> that's why it's most important to do it for the places we fix a known bug in debbugs
<pitti> until then I think we just need to take the time to fill bugs
<mdz> Keybuk: do you have a pointer to something which describes actual complaints from Debian, if any?
<mdz> Keybuk: is it about our enhancements, bugfixes, methods of publishing, what?
<pitti> however, I very often file bugs to the Debian BTS, but many of them (derooting, cups, etc.) tend to be ignored
<Keybuk> mdz: nothing concrete, is mostly just /msg when I'm active in #debian-devel from one or two people
<pitti> so far _none_ of my derooting patches has been adopted
<mdz> pitti: I don't think it's necessary to push those
<Kamion> there was a fair bit of disgruntled blog activity a couple of weeks back
<Keybuk> I think most of the changes fall into our enhancements that people feel should be in Debian
<lamont> pitti: this isn't about whether or not they accept them
<Keybuk> hotplug, etc.
<pitti> lamont: right, but if you don't see any reply, my motivation decreases to publish further patches
<doko> pitti: yes, same experience here, 50% are ignored, and the rest applied with, or without any notice.
<sabdfl> if we've slacked off since the warty release i can understand it, it's a lot of work to push every patch, but we should try to tighten up again now we are in pure-fix-bugs mode
<Keybuk> or where a bug is filed in our Bugzilla, fixed by us -- but never filed in debbugs, even though it affects them
<sivang> we should be probably working close with the packages respective debian maintainers like pitti does with sjored on hal and dbus
<pitti> OTOH, my security patches are really leeched
<lamont> pitti: except that we happen to be paid to publish them... 
<pitti> right, cooperation with sjoerd works perfectly
<sivang> so maintainers have an idea what's going on and if they want to adopt patches they do.
<lamont> sabdfl: definitely
<mdz> sabdfl: we have slacked a bit on bugfixes, but we do a lot more on our own now (and not in response to known debian bug reports) as well
<mdz> we're not working out of debbugs anymore
<mdz> the vast majority of our work is directly with Ubuntu users
<Kamion> my impression is that it's not that there's a general lack of communication, there's just enough things that fall through the cracks that people notice them
<lamont> mdz: and that's certainly a component of the problem
<sabdfl> so let's leave it to the judgement call of the person making the fix
<Keybuk> mdz: and we're not using Debian ourselves anymore, so don't notice the bugs
<mdz> therefore, the policy that we would submit things to Debian where it was known/reported in Debian already, has led to a drop in patch submission
<sabdfl> if it's in debbugs, and we found it there and fixed it, then we should definitely notify upstream / maintainer about the fix
<mdz> to do otherwise would be prohibitively expensive in terms of developer time, in order to investigate/test/reproduce the bug on Debian
<sabdfl> we're not using debbugs any longer?
<sabdfl> i don't know that
<sabdfl> didn't
<mdz> sabdfl: not exclusively
<lamont> users are filing bugs at bugzilla.ubuntu.colm
<mdz> we still import RC bugs from Debian
<sabdfl> but we're still syncing in from debbugs to bugzilla?
<mdz> my point was that most of the bugs are from Ubuntu users now, and not from debbugs
<lamont> and those bugs aren't necessarily in debbugs
<sabdfl> right
<sabdfl> well, let's start with this:
<Kamion> since we get all the trivial stuff through bugzilla and only get the serious stuff through debbugs
<sabdfl>  - if it's in debbugs, and we fix it, definitely try to publish the fix in debbugs
<mdz> Kamion: right
<Kamion> and the volume of the former is much greater :)
<mdz> sabdfl: searching debbugs to find out of the bug is filed there is a great deal of work for non-trivial packages
<trulux> hi
<sabdfl>  - otherwise use your judgement
<mdz> s/out of/out if/
<sivang> mdz: imported RC bugs get always published-pushed right?
<sabdfl> mdz: i meant, if we LEARNED about it from debbugs, so we already know its there
<mdz> sabdfl: ok
<mdz> sivang: that is the idea, yes
<Kamion> sivang: not automatically, though
<sivang> mdz: at least for those is should be 
<sivang> Kamion: eh
<sabdfl> do we have an idea of the patch acceptance rate for that class of patches?
<mdz> that's become a very small amount of our work, though
<lamont> sivang: and at least a few people missed a few such...
<sabdfl>  - in debbugs, we fix it, we ppublish the patch?
<sivang> lamont: I see
<mdz> s/in debbugs/came from debbugs/
<Kamion> sivang: because sometimes we need to say "this doesn't affect us" for one reason or another, and that would just be noise in debbugs
<sabdfl> yes, sorry, came from debbugs
<sivang> Kamion: ok
<Kamion> sivang: so our automatic gateway is only unidirectional, very deliberately
* lamont expects that some of the debian mindset is because they s/came from debbugs/in debbugs/
<sabdfl> Kamion: i like the idea of allowing the debian maintainer to turn on bidirectionality
<pitti> is that possible with bz?
<Kamion> sabdfl: it's not a per-maintainer thing really though, it's a per-bug thing
<sabdfl> that would be harder :-
<sabdfl> )
<Kamion> and the Debian maintainer can subscribe to a particular bug if they want
<sabdfl> "flag this bug as "HELP ME PLEASE""
<haggai> Kamion: but debian users wouldn't see the bug like that
<T-Bone> just a 2cents, but what about adding a knob to bz "send this comment back to BTS", for bugs that were imported?
<Kamion> sabdfl: I could probably gather statistics on how many bugs containing our patch URLs are closed and how many open, which might be close enough
<sivang> bz?
<Kamion> sivang: bugzilla
<sivang> Kamion: k
<sabdfl> Kamion: ok, would be interesting
<mdz> is there any TB decision to be made on this issue?
<sabdfl> big picture - my sense is that we are fixing a lot of bugs, and while we should tighten up again to be like pre-warty where we were religious about pushing the bugfixes, we should not also assume responsibility to file a bug upstream for every patch we make
<Keybuk> mdz: don't think so; just seemed like a good time to broach the subject given bug fix frenzy starting and most parties being here
<mdz> unlike Warty, the bug fixing spree we're about to do is going to be dominated by Ubuntu bug reports, not Debian ones
<sabdfl> mdz: perhaps just a mail to the team from you reminding folks of the procedure particularly for bugs which came to us from debbugs and which we fix?
<T-Bone> sabdfl: i thought we made a religion of pushing back fixes?
<pitti> sabdfl: indeed, filing bugs upstream is a PITA
<sabdfl> T-Bone: we publish everything, immediately, and where we know it is going to be immediately useful we make it extra easy for upstream
<pitti> sabdfl: pushing them to Debian is easy, but for upstream you have to look for gazillions of different email and bts systems, some of them don't even have a bts
<mdz> we could build some tools to simplify the process, but it would be throwaway work
<T-Bone> sabdfl: ok got it
<sabdfl> malone is coming along
<pitti> when, BTW?
<sabdfl> it will take time to get it right, but it gives us the ability to automate a LOT of this
<sabdfl> we'll be using it heavily for bendy, and it will be rocking for bendy+1
<Keybuk> s/bendy/hoary+1/
<Keybuk> :p
<sivang> hehehe
<sabdfl> Keybuk: you STARTED it
<mdz> should we start a flam^Wdiscussion with Debian about what we do in this area?
<haggai> can the m-o-m output URL be placed next to the statement on the Debian and Ubuntu page about pushing patches back
<Keybuk> sabdfl: I was JOKING :p
<ogra> btw, we will discuss this topic too in the MOTU meeting on thursday: https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTUMeeting
<sabdfl> haggai: good idea
<mdz> agreed
<sabdfl> ok, let's move on
<sivang> would be interesting to look at it regardless of pushing stuff upstream, I never saw a MOM output :)
<Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/
<Keybuk> or
<Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/patches/
<sivang> Keybuk: hehe, cool 
* haggai adds that URL to DeveloperResources
<haggai> ah, it was already here :)
<Keybuk> the latter just provides the current ubuntu/debian changes
<Keybuk> with added humour
<sabdfl> Keybuk: very nice!
<sabdfl> ready for MaintainerCandidates?
<Kamion> Keybuk: last I looked, it only provided the changes when a subsequent Debian change (and thus m-o-m run) had happened
<Kamion> Keybuk: has that been fixed?
<sivang> Keybuk: http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/patches/blam/blam_1.6.0-1ubuntu1_unknown.patch :-)
<Keybuk> Kamion: that's still true
<mdz> (added link to /patches/ to the Ubuntu and Debian page)
<Keybuk> it's a side-effect of the merge-o-matic output rather than a separate process in its own right
<Keybuk> I could make it a separate process easy enough though
<mdz> ready for MaintainerCandidates
<sabdfl> Keybuk: go ahead and do that
<Keybuk> on MaintainerCandidates, the current list is huge -- could it be separated out into lists of people at each stage so we know who is actually up this time?
<ogra> sabdfl: we have four MOTU candidates that could get apprved if they had a review from a second approver and have already workes on packages that were upoaded on behalf...
<mdz> it has been cleaned up since the last time
<ogra> s/workes/worked
<mdz> the people who are already maintainers/members have been processed
<ogra> yup, these are all current candidates
<mdz> Is there anyone here who is seeking technical board approval to upload packages to Ubuntu?
<dholbach> dredg, jani, wasabi and metalikop are on the list, right ogra?
<ogra> wasabi, dredg ,  jani, metallikop anyone around ?
<dredg> ?
* dredg wakes up
<Keybuk> mdz: is the current list /all/ awaiting TB approval then?
<sabdfl> hi dredg, wasabi
<doko> mdz: not exactly, but pushing zope packages from universe to supported.
<dredg> lo sabdfl 
<wasabi> Hello.
<mdz> Keybuk: no
<dholbach> metalikop seems to be idle for 03:34:41
<sabdfl> you guys are up for maintainership candidacy, right?
<mdz> doko: we're talking about confirming new Ubuntu maintainers
* dredg nods
<wasabi> Yes.
<dholbach> jani, metalikop and dredg have been very active in the UniversePythonTransition
<mdz> for universe, or unrestricted?
<jani> I'm here 
<jani> was gone for 5 minutes
<dholbach> mdz: universe
<ogra> mdz: MOTU
<mdz> do all of you already have approval from an MOTU leader?
<mdz> and so only need one more ack?
<ogra> yup
<ogra> we did a lot of cross review....
<mdz> have you already sent signed CoC to mako?
<dredg> i have not.
<jani> not me yet
<ogra> gah
<jani> no keyowners in the area
<jani> have to do it via snailmail
<jani> :(
<dredg> unsigned key. i can fax it
<dredg> (well, selfsigned)
<wasabi> I am hopeing to maintain some java-related things... most notably Eclipse.
<mdz> can each of you state your real name?  your nicks are not familiar
<dredg> mdz: Niall Sheridan
<jani> Jani Monoses
<wasabi> Jerry Haltom
<mdz> thanks
<jani> nor are our real names ;)
<ogra> metalikop would be: AaronLake
<Keybuk> I don't see JerryHaltom on MaintainerCandidates ?
<mdz> it would be preferable to allow MOTU itself to approve new members; that was the original intent.  are we still seeking a second MOTU leader?
<Kamion> we appointed Treenaks
<mdz> it is much more effective for MOTU to be self-supporting, since you are working as a group and are familiar with one another's activities
<Kamion> with somebody as backup, who temporarily escapes me
<ogra> nope... but both additional approvers were on fosdem last weekend..
<Kamion> oh, was it Mithrandir as backup?
<ogra> yup
<Mithrandir> yes
<wasabi> Keybuk, it's not. I came to this meeting unprepared. My shoes are untied and I had to have the secretary put on my tie. =/
<sabdfl> mdz: we'll need to bootstrap it a little, though
<ogra> Kamion: but you are welcome as well ;)
<Kamion> ogra: you don't want to see the length of my to-do list already
<mdz> sabdfl: MOTU has a healthy base already, in fact
<sabdfl> maybe it would help to say something like "when you've had 5 packages reviewed and uploaded"?
<mdz> wasabi: we're still getting into the rhythm of the process
<ogra> sabdfl: since we are working in a group and do cross reviews this would probably be a better way
<dholbach> sabdfl++
<ogra> sabdfl: wouldnt invole relying on a singl (or two) persons
<mdz> the wiki only mentions haggai
<sabdfl> i like what's written on all the guys' wiki pages, so we are on the right track
<mdz> who, as I recall, had to step down
<sabdfl> i'm just concerned that asking someone who hasn't reviewed real code to approve someone else as a maintainer is not going to get the result we want
<mdz> we all agree that it doesn't make much sense for the technical board to try to make a judgement on candidates without any information to go on
<sabdfl> ogra: who's been most active in the MOTU team?
<Kamion> mdz: I think the wiki is obsolete; we discussed this in the CC meeting last week
<ogra> sabdfl: dholbach and me i think.....
<doko> dholbach seemed to be quite ctive
<Kamion> I was under the impression some MOTU would update their pages
<tseng> yep, id agree with dholbach and ogra as most active
<ogra> sabdfl: dholbach recently lots more then me, since i'm busy with hwdb
<wasabi> I added myself to the wiki in case it matters.
<sabdfl> are there any of the candidates that you can both recommend without reservation, confident they will do high quality work and that they'll be able to identify risky moves in advance of making them?
<sabdfl> *both* recommend?
<ogra> sabdfl: i think we could both be happy with dredg, jani and wasabi ...metalikop could need a bit more training
<ogra> dholbach ?
<dholbach> i can definitely recommend dredg, jani
<sabdfl> dholbach: ?
<dholbach> i didnt work with wasabi that much
<dholbach> but he seems quite active on the java front
<dholbach> dredg and jani communicate nicely with the team
<mdz> wasabi: you've been working with jbailey on the java stuff, or on your own?
<wasabi> With jbailey.
<mdz> jbailey: are you here?
<ogra> jbailey ?
<jbailey> I've been working with him.
<jbailey> I'm happy with wasabi's packaging, and I'm confident that he thinks things through before giving them to me to sponsor.
<sabdfl> ok, i'm happy to take ogra and dholbach's endorsement of dredg and jani
<mdz> jbailey: do you have enough information to make a recommendation about whether he is ready to upload packages to universe/
<mdz> between ogra and jbailey, I'm happy with wasabi
<jbailey> mdz: I've reviewed 3 of his packages to far for packaging, and I've worked with him on this and seen him around #gnome-debian before.
<sabdfl> ok
<ogra> i think if someone has already fixed 7 packages (wasabi) that got uploaded on behalf he must have at least understood the basics ;)
<wasabi> 7?
<sabdfl> i guess metalikop needs to work with the MOTU team a little longer
<dholbach> wow... 7 already
<sabdfl> guys, there will be a LOT of movement in universe these next few weeks, with a lot of work on KDE
<mdz> who will take responsibility for guiding them through the rest of the process (keys, CoC, etc.)?
<mdz> sabdfl: most of KDE moved into main today
<ogra> mdz: dholbach and me
<wasabi> ogra, where did that 7 come from?
<dholbach> yes
<sabdfl> ok
<dholbach> hoary-changes?
<mdz> ogra: ok, thank you
<ogra> wasabi: i did a search for your name in hoary-changes....
<wasabi> Oh I see! Probably my few gnome packages which seb never change the maintainer line on.
<sabdfl> ok, are we done with MaintainerCandidates?
<mdz> I think so
<dholbach> cool
* dholbach gives high fives to both jani and dredg.
<mdz> I'd like to say that I think MOTU is coming together very nicely, you're doing excellent work as a team
<mdz> thanks for your efforts
* jani is honored
<dredg> cheers guys
<sabdfl> welcome aboard guys
<jani> thanks
<dholbach> thanks :-)
<wasabi> No hi five for me? :)
<sabdfl> wasabi: respek
* pitti high-fives wasabi
<sabdfl> next?
* ogra gives high fives to wasabi
<wasabi> yay. =)
<mdz> thanks especially to ogra and dholbach for helping organize the team and encourage people to join
<mdz> that's it for the agenda
<mdz> any other business?
<sabdfl> any other business?
<jani> mdz, right they're both very motivating and helpful
<haggai> yup thanks from me too to ogra/dholbach
<sivang> apparently another nice short and relazing tb meeting :-)
* dholbach high-fives ogra as well
<sivang> s/relazing/relaxing/
<sabdfl> soo... about that bootsplash on the live cd...
<sabdfl> kidding
<sivang> hehehe
* mdz snarls
<T-Bone> heh
<sabdfl> thanks mdz, thanks everyone
<ogra> everybody is invited on thursday to joinr our first meeting : https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTUMeeting
<sabdfl> ogra: is that a weekly?
* ogra makes some advertizing
<sabdfl> i'll be there if i can, but will be quiet if possible :-)
<ogra> sabdfl: lets see how often its needed :)
<sabdfl> mdz: do you want the tb to be at 20h00 every time?
<mdz> sabdfl: yes
<sabdfl> ok
<sivang> sabdfl: it's pretty good like that
<T-Bone> that's cool
<dholbach> thanks mdz and sabdfl, thanks everyone else :-)
<mdz> sabdfl: is it a problem?
<sivang> sabdfl: wops, that was for mdz
<sabdfl> not at all, i was just under the impression it was a one-off change
<mdz> it's nice to be awake for at least half of the weekly meetings
<sabdfl> rock
<sabdfl> cheers all
<dholbach> bye sabdfl 
<mdz> thanks, everyone
<sabdfl> hey, who's going DOWN UNDER?
<ogra> bye sabdfl 
<zul> i wish
<T-Bone> i'd have loved to ;}
<sivang> sabdfl: btw, how was down under chosen as a name?
<Mithrandir> I am (:
* mvo raises his hand
<dredg> oh me, if enough people contribute to the 'dredg-goes-down-under' fund
<pitti> sivang: given where it takes place...
<ogra> sabdfl : not sure yet (i resigned from my job last week, dunno if i have the money)
<Keybuk> sivang: "Down Under" is UK slang for Australia
<sabdfl> sivang: Australia
<sivang> Keybuk: ah!
<jbailey> Keybuk: Isn't it common slang elsewhere too?
<Keybuk> jbailey: one assumes it isn't common south of the Equator :p
<jani> not in australia :)
<dholbach> jbailey: i only learned it in english classes :-)
<Kamion> jbailey: originated in the UK though, since Australia is pretty much antipodeal to here
<pitti> UbuntuRightHere for .au :-)
<dredg> and by 'contribute to' i mean pay wads of cash into :) and by fund i mean bank account
<dredg> (details available on request)
<wasabi> so what are the procedures for this post-meeting? key added to upload keyring?
<jbailey> Ah.  Well Canadians wind up absorbing UK slang alot of the time anyway.
<dholbach> wasabi: you'll have to send the signed CoC to mako
<wasabi> already done
<wasabi> for Membership.
<dholbach> wasabi: and send a signed mail to *looking it up on the wiki*
<mdz> (wiki updated)
<jani> link please?
<dholbach> wasabi: upload@ubuntulinux.org for being on the whitelist and keyring@ubuntulinux.org for being able to upload
<dholbach> wasabi: someone already signed your key?
<wasabi> good point
<wasabi> oh that's going to be a difficult one
<dholbach> damn :-/
<jani> so  for those with unsigned keys what is to be mailed exactly?
<dholbach> tseng had to organize it too
<dholbach> but managed else
<jani> printed signed CoC, along with a copy of the  ID?
<dholbach> your gpg key id
<dholbach> and some notarization
<jani> and the CoC goes normally via e-mail?
<dholbach> yes
<dholbach> signed, sent to mako
<dholbach> sabdfl offered to sign the key of tseng, when he sent him all that by snailmail
<jani> so a text something like this gpg id belongs to Jani Monoses?
<wasabi> there a page describing this?
<dholbach> not yet
<dholbach> damn
<dholbach> tseng just left
<wasabi> well somebody set up a fax machine once you get a page. ;)
<jani> tseng said he'll solve it by getting signed at a asecurity conf he'll attend soon
<wasabi> or is this all email? heh
<jani> so no papers in his case
<dholbach> i guess you ask in #u-d explicitly or get in touch with mako(?)
<dholbach> i thought he was another keysigning guru :-)
<metalikop> Meeting still on?
<metalikop> I'm a bit late :)
<ogra> metalikop: meeting is over
<metalikop> i figured as much
<metalikop> anyone have a log up somewhere?
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-meeting-current.html
<metalikop> thanks
<haggai> ogra/metalikop: http://irclog.workaround.org is quicker at updating
<ogra> ah, thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-03-06
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:robitaille] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 1 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 1 Mar 19:00 UTC: Accessibility Team | 2 Mar 02:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 3 Mar 21:00 UTC: Documentation Team | 7 Mar 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 14 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 15 Mar 20:00 UTC: Kubuntu
<manils> hello all
<ogra> hey all
<highvoltage> hey
<ogra> where is flint ?
<ogra> ah
<ogra> :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol
<pips1> hi
<ogra> so can we start ? 
<flint_> ogra, I want to get one of those remote starters to pre warm ubuntu-meeting so it is warm when we get here!
<flint_> :^)
<ogra> tech update is rather small today
<flint_> ogra, lol exce..ent
<ogra> flint_, heh
<pips1> is JaneW coming?
<ogra> the CD exploded some days ago when the ubuntu example-content package was added, i dont think we can ship it :/
<ogra> nope, JaneW has a bank holiday
<ogra> elections in southafrica
<pips1> ah
<highvoltage> what's the example-content package?
<pips1> ogra: you mean, we won't be able to ship the example-content on the edubuntu cds?
<ogra> its a 7Mb package and we simply dont have this much ... i'm not even sure we have 1MB on ppc amd64
<flint_> small general good news, crsoosver 5.0.1 and ms office on top work on the badger version of edubuntu real well...
<ogra> highvoltage, example content for all apps we ship to play around with
<highvoltage> ogra: i see. does that include example content for ktouch? that seems to be in high demand.
<ogra> its an awesome idea ... but as long as we ship kdeedu we wont have the space
<ogra> highvoltage, nope 
<ogra> its ubuntu specific, not edubuntu 
<ogra> there are some openoffice docs, some svg and bitmaps etc ...
<ogra> summing up to a 7MB package
<ogra> i'd really appreciate if someone could start research for replacements of kdeedu for dapper+1 
<ogra> that would gain us ~100Mb (guessed) 
<highvoltage> ogra: i suppose it's a lot of work to do a dvd version, hey?
<highvoltage> really? wow! i didn't realise it was *that* much
<pips1> ogra: how do the space requirements add up in all? I mean, how much space is ubuntu taking in comparison to edubuntu-specific stuff?
<ogra> highvoltage, not really, but we decided we want to be available in areas weher no DVD players are available
<ogra> highvoltage, even if its 50, it would be wonderful ...
<ogra> pips1, we take more than 70MB more and i already disabled what i could from ubuntu 
<flint_> highvoltage, it is not just the dvd player, it is the bandwidth necessary to deliver a 4.8Gb iso eh
<ogra> note that amd64 with the same set of software wouldnt even build, we dont have tuxpaint on amd64 ...
<ogra> highvoltage, we still have the DVD that contains all of main...
<ogra> but it wont be our main media for now 
<pips1> ogra: you are saying that you need to get rid of 70 MB because it exceeds the limit for a cd currently, right?
<ogra> i guess at some point where we ship something that enables you to manage the whole school we'll have no choice ...
<highvoltage> yep, i'm just in two worlds about kde-edu, it's a real nice, active project, just a pity we need to install so much in order to run it
<flint_> highvoltage, keep in mind that 70 mb of cd is 10 percent...
<ogra> pips1, i cann keep the CD in shape .... currently its fine, but we dont have any space left ...
<ogra> which brings me to the next tech topic
<highvoltage> dvd players seem to be vrey, very common already. perhaps by dapper+2 it would be much more plausible
<ogra> we have a edubuntu-docs packag since last week 
<ogra> i'm waiting for Kamion to push it through NEW
<Kamping_Kaiser> highvoltage: but only in 'the first world'
<flint_> ogra, got a url?
<highvoltage> Kamping_Kaiser: and 3rd world
<ogra> it contains a modified version of the two ooo docs highvoltage presented last time
<ogra> flint_, once its through new: sudo apt-get install edubuntu-docs
<highvoltage> ogra: that's in html now, right?
<ogra> yup
<ogra> i'll rework it 
<flint_> ogra, this is excellent news!  bet he did not have a beautiful illustrator to charm like jonathan did...
<ogra> but first i'm adding some basic docs for our ltsp ...
<pips1> ogra: what's up with the feature freeze... did schooltool make it in time?
<ogra> pips1, schooltool sits in debian and waits for a sync ...
<ogra> the launchpad feature for syncing is still not ready, so we're all waiting for that
<ogra> but it was requested and approved in time ...
<ogra> so we'll get it, dont worry
<flint_> ogra, shcooltool is important.  will the old version be included otherwise?
<pips1> ogra: ic
<ogra> flint_, that wont work 
<highvoltage> flint_: you just won't let that go, will you ;)
<flint_> ogra, gotcha.  does it have to do with its zope3-ishness?
<ogra> yup
<flint_> highvoltage, jonathan, the man the legend :^)
<ogra> but dont worry, schooltool will be in
<ogra> jane and i decided to make a separate spec for the network swap stuff, it can be found at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FullyAutomaticSwapServer
<highvoltage> ogra and jane++
<ogra> i'm also thinking about a kiosk mode on ltsp level for dapper+1 
<ogra> that should gain us a lot of points in public librarys and internet cafes :)
<flint_> ogra, we marketing weasels always like a good demo kiosk.  
<highvoltage> i think it will be a hit
<ogra> flint_, you just had to add the --kiosk argument to the ltsp-build-client command that sets up ltsp and the rest will be done automatically :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> i agree with highvoltage and otehrs ther
<ogra> just boot the clients :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> *others there
<flint_> ogra, gotcha, which flight should i try this with?
<ogra> ok, thats it with tech update ...
<ogra> flint_, flightX of dapper+1 ;)
<ogra> its a plan for next release ...
<ogra> since the question for kiosk mode comes up quite often 
<highvoltage> on the website, there's not too much of a change yet.
<ogra> ok, any news in the doc area ? 
<flint_> ogra, ollie, we should move on to annoying the edubuntu cooks
<ogra> jelkner, ?
* pips1 wants to get his hands on that schooltool release, and wonders how "ready" it is for the class room, since it it only an "alpha development snapshot"
<highvoltage> sorry, i just jumped in there
<ogra> highvoltage, no, its fine ...
<flint_> pips1, we gotta talk... email flint@flint.com schooltool in subject.
<ogra> if you have something doc related ...
<pips1> maybe it needs to be pointed out in the edubuntu doc that schooltool is an alpha release, cf. http://www.schooltool.org/products/schooltool-2006/releases/2006.0-alpha1
<pips1> ?
* highvoltage agrees
<flint_> ogra, kcole and jelkner just got back from pycon, and they may be a little "py-eyed" from the flight
<ogra> pips1, i'm pretty sure thats not what we ship
<jelkner> ogra: yes?
<pips1> ogra: no?!
<flint_> the news from pycon in dallas is that while they may be dead from the flight back to DC, Lore lives! take it away Jeff...
<jelkner> we have the cookbook on the wiki
<flint_> jelkner, now is the moment when you give the url jeffster.
<jelkner> kevin and i will try to write a few chapters on installing and setting up edubuntu as soon as the release gets closer and things are likely to change less frequently
<ogra> pips1, if that the one we ship, i agree, i'll have to check if that 2006, i think its thae last release of the last release we have :)
<ogra> (and not 2006-alpha)
<jelkner> a google search for "edubuntu cookbook" returns the launchpad page on top
<jelkner> this is not what we would like
<flint_> jelkner, the sooner you to get me a url the faster I can whine about details, pepper you with critisim and hector you for minor changes.
<jelkner> https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-cooks
<ogra> jelkner, thats hard to influence 
<jelkner> is the launchpad page
<highvoltage> jelkner: many people would like to change their google rankings, you just can't control it :/
<flint_> jelkner, thanks, i mean all that in the nicest way.:^)
<jelkner> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuCookbook
<jelkner> is the wiki page
<highvoltage> jelkner: where would you like it to point? perhaps we can make that page more googlable
<jelkner> the wiki page
<highvoltage> jelkner: perhaps you should link to that wiki page then from the launchpad page?
<jelkner> which doesn't show up anywhere in the goolge search that i can see
<ogra> jelkner, can you link the wikipage from launchpad somewhere ?
<highvoltage> jelkner: it will also push up the ranks for the wiki page in google then
<jelkner> we did
<jelkner> but it is not at all easy to follow
<ogra> https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-cooks doesnt have it ...
<jelkner> kevin and i could not figure out how to make a link on the lauchpad page using something like an anchore tag
<ogra> how ddi you get the other link in there
<jelkner> it does, ogra, but you have to See https://launchpad.net/products/edubuntu.cookbook
<highvoltage> jelkner: you can just type it like you did here in irc, you don't need tags and stuff
<jelkner> yes, but it then looks hideous
<jelkner> it is too long to fit in the box
<jelkner> and the text runs over into the sidebar
<ogra> jelkner, ah, just put a hint into the description or something ... 
<jelkner> orgra: i'm not sure what you mean?
<pips1> Quote from the launchpad page "For a look at the current cookbook, click on the link to the home page in the left menu."
<ogra> "please click on the homepage link on the left to get to the wiki page"
<jelkner> ahh
<jelkner> will do
<ogra> oh, ah 
<ogra> i'm blind
<ogra> sorry :)
<pips1> ogra: I had to look twice myself :-)
<ogra> heh :)
<flint_> jelkner, looks pretty good to me...
<jelkner> ok, that's about it for the cookbook
<flint_> jelkner, nah, tell us about lore...
<highvoltage> lore?
<jelkner> lore is twisted's markup language
<jelkner> they use it for all the docs on twitedmatrix.com
<jelkner> i've been using it for stuff that i do on the open book project site
<jelkner> moshe zadka wrote it
<jelkner> george paci is maintaining it
<flint_> highvoltage, jonathan, watch yourself here, there is a very high cliff approaching, great view but dangerous...
<jelkner> and moshe and george are getting together at pycon to sprint on it
<jelkner> (or rather, hopefully they did already ;-)
<highvoltage> flint_: that's how i like it ;)
<jelkner> ok, i gotta run
<flint_> jelkner, jeff the reason you use it is because it is gods gift to indexing eh?
<flint_> thanks jeff!!!
<jelkner> bye
<ogra> ciao jelkner 
<ogra> and tzhanks 
<ogra> hmpf
<ogra> anything else doc related ?
<highvoltage> tha'ts it for doc then?
<flint_> ogra, imagine getting a meeting done early!  would jane be suprised?
<ogra> heh, might be 
<ogra> so, artwork anyone ? 
* ogra didnt do work on the artwork package last week 
<highvoltage> if there's any updates? sure.
<flint_> ogra, artwork going once...artwork going twice....SOLD!
<ogra> flint_, to whom ? 
<highvoltage> ok, then may i jump in with a very quick website update now?
<flint_> hehe
* highvoltage goes anywya
<ogra> yeah
<flint_> highvoltage, go for it!!
<pips1> highvoltage: please
<highvoltage> i just aked znarl about the drupal installation, he was rather busy busy last weke, he'll say he'll make a plan to get it installed tomoorrow or the day after
<highvoltage> i've played a bit with the spreadfirefox theme locally too
<highvoltage> it's very suitable for edubuntu allready
<pips1> highvoltage: nice!
<ogra> cool
<flint_> interesting...
<highvoltage> although we'll have to make the colours work, janew was clear that she wanted us to keep the edubuntu colours currently in use.
<highvoltage> that's about it :) any questions?
<ogra> yup, thats our face to the world, we should keep the colortheme
<pips1> highvoltage: did you also check the (drupal) admin screens with the spreadfirefox theme? on some screens, I got some weird overlapping forms.. :-/
<flint_> the orange and the yellow?
<highvoltage> pips1: haven't noticed that yet
<ogra> flint_, red orange yellow the main colors of our desktop 
<ogra> flint_, bright and friendly :)
<flint_> ogra, forgive i am not very well red...
<flint_> :^)
<pips1> I have quite a bit of spare time to work on the website in the next weeks... so ideally we get down to it sooner rather than later...
<ogra> flint_, but a bit bordeaux, no ? :)
<highvoltage> flint_: yes. it's nice colours, although odd for websites, but it presents a good challenge, and when we'll make it work we'll have something that's both good looking and unique
<pips1> for the record, I'll be on a holiday when edubuntu is released...
<flint_> ogra, harsh, you could at least pun in German eh?
<ogra> pips1, we'll drink on you :)
<pips1> holiday april 8th - 22th
<highvoltage> pips1: that's great. we'll of course need to continue working on the site after it's launch
<ogra> flint_, bordeaux comes from the hills of france not germany :)
<pips1> highvoltage: sure
<flint_> ogra, god, help me... :^)
<ogra> thats it with artwork ? 
<flint_> ogra, ah to be back in the hills of farce... :^)
<ogra> anything else Management and/or Community related ?
<flint_> we could break 15 minutes early and create a newsworthy item.
<ogra> yeah, since it doesnt look like there is any topic left, we can close :)
<ogra> so thanks all, meeting adjouned :)
<ogra> or so ...
<highvoltage> thanks, ogra
<pips1> thanks
<pips1> cu in #edubuntu
<Kamping_Kaiser> k
<flint_> excellent a new meeting record!!! bye all back to #edubuntu! 
<heno> Hello all :)
<TheMuso> Hey heno.
<heno> Hi TheMuso. Thanks for organising the aganda and stuff
<heno> and generally holding the fort :)
<dholbach> Hey! :)
<heno> dholbach: ! how was your weekend ? ;)
<dholbach> Thanks heno - had a nice Saturday, with wandering through Berlin and a loooong party in the evening - Sunday just some bits of working and mostly recovering :)
<dholbach> How were your weekend?
<dholbach> weekends :)
<heno> nice thanks, had the place to myself. Did some good design work on TheOpenCD
<heno> (I was reffering to your missed meeting though)
<dholbach> Nice.
<dholbach> Yeah, I thought so. :-)
<heno> It's good to make those contacts though
<dholbach> well, I tried to gather up with the KDE a11y and usability folks (who met in Berlin)
<TheMuso> Nice.
<heno> We've just been in touch with some KDE access people
<heno> all good stuff
<dholbach> after I got there, I tried all the bells and doors, but they didn't hear me on the 4th floor (or wherever they were)
<TheMuso> I have also been talking on and off to Garry in the #kde-accessibility channel recently. He has been following what we are doing with great interest.
<dholbach> so I took my laptop the Ubuntu CDs and everything else to a nice walk through Berlin. .-)
<dholbach> But I'll meet with Ellen soon to catch up with.
<TheMuso> he has said on several occasions that KDE doesn't yet have the same as what GNOME has to offer in terms of accessibility.
<Riddell> heno: just remembered, I've not replied to your e-mail
<dholbach> hey Riddell
<heno> Riddell: np. What do you think?
<Riddell> heno: are you talking about a separate CD or an option on the live or install CD at boot time?
<heno> wil we get some Kubuntu AT love this release? :)
<Riddell> "AT"?
<dholbach> accessibility technology?
<heno> Assistive Technology
<dholbach> oh well
<dholbach> good enough for a non-native speaker ;)
<heno> I ws thinking as boot feature. Do you ship Kmag?
<Riddell> kdeaccessibility is in universe
<heno> ah, ok
<Riddell> but that can be fixed of course
<dholbach> :-D
<TheMuso> heno: We could still offer a derivative.
<TheMuso> Unless kdeaccessibility is promoted in the meantime.
<heno> yep
<heno> ok, so where are we with the current game plan?
<TheMuso> Riddell: The kubuntu live CD uses the same overall infrastructure as the Ubuntu one right?
<TheMuso> Have you looked at the agenda?
<TheMuso> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Team/MeetingAgenda
<heno> yep, point 1
<heno> access profiles
<Riddell> TheMuso: yes
<heno> well done on getting those sorted, thanks :)
<heno> about the magnification, 8x sounds huge
<heno> but I'm no expert on that
<TheMuso> Well it actually wouldn't be too difficult to set up kubuntu profiles for accessibility from the same casper script if there was a way to identify what CD we are using, and once I knew how to modify/set KDE configuration files.
<heno> don't you end up scrolling sideways alot?
<TheMuso> I really wish others were here to give their opinion, as I haven't as yet received any email.
* TheMuso jumps to the ubuntu-a11y mailbox.
<dholbach> yeah
<TheMuso> No, nothing.
<heno> So we just make a decision and go with it I think
<TheMuso> Yeah.
<heno> That small detail can be changed after feedback
<dholbach> TheMuso: casper uses the packages on livecd file system - so from there it should be easy to judge wether we're in ubuntu or kubuntu land
<heno> I would vote for 4x ...
<TheMuso> dholbach: Very true. Check for kubuntu-desktop for example.
<dholbach> TheMuso: or we can test for binaries we need
<TheMuso> heno: Ok will make a note of it.
<heno> The placement worries me more though. It seems to assume a certain screen rez
<dholbach> i have unfortunately not much of an opinion on the default settings
<TheMuso> I don't know how else we can work that
<heno> how would that work on a smaller screen?
<TheMuso> As the default placement IMO is crazy.
<heno> I guess you would still get something
<heno> agreed
<TheMuso> Yeah.
<dholbach> we could ask on the gnome a11y list
<heno> A larger screen should be no problem, just less optimal
<heno> dholbach: good idea
<dholbach> although i'm not entirely convinced they ship the best they can think of as a default already
<TheMuso> dholbach: Yeah, as we will be patching these gconf settings into the package anyway.
<TheMuso> dholbach: Neither do I.
<heno> I still need to thank them all for the detailed replies
<dholbach> TheMuso: yeah, if we have better defaults no need to change casper - we can change that in the packages directly
<dholbach> heno: yeah, that was great
<TheMuso> dholbach: Yeah. The only thing the script for casper should do is turn on or off the ke settings that make things available or not when GNOME starts.
<heno> OK, so we'll just pick the position setting in your mail and call that settled ?
<TheMuso> Yep. We still have time to test so we can hopefully get feedback.
<dholbach> yes
<heno> ok, point 2?
<heno> I guess that's an upstream bug really
<TheMuso> hmmm
<dholbach> *nod*
<heno> they need to get used to the idea of fixing that
<dholbach> at least we could ask for pointers
<dholbach> :)))
<TheMuso> No pun intended right? :)
<heno> I still havent 100% understood the problem
<TheMuso> Me neither.
<TheMuso> Something to do with gok getting more direct hardware access to the mouse.
<heno> Gok just needs more testing and exposure generally which we will hopefully provide
<TheMuso> Yeah.
<heno> Has anyone else experienced my panel crashing bug?
<heno> I've asked other random people to test on dapper
<TheMuso> heno: I will be totally honest and say that I haven't played with GOK AT ALL>
<TheMuso> LATELY
<heno> but so far it works for everyone else
<dholbach> i guess that was the at-spi / gail changes that made it work again
<heno> it's a quick test: just install and start somethinmg from the gnome panel while gok is running
<TheMuso> Righto.
<heno> if nothing crashes you're ok
* TheMuso flicks over to oher box to try.
<heno> I've not tested it today after the latest updates
<heno> anyway, it doesn't look like a showstopper for us
<dholbach> i seem safe
<heno> works for most and doesn't get in anyones way
<TheMuso> ok
<TheMuso> Nice to see GNOME is killing its processes properly now. :)
<sorush20> so what are you guys trying to make more accessible? 
<heno> So I guess the conclusion on GOK is that it works acceptibly now
<dholbach> sorush20: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Team/MeetingAgenda is our agenda
<TheMuso> So if it is just a matter of running something from the panel while GOK is running, there seems to be no problem. I haven't updated today either.
<dholbach> sorush20: we're discussing point 2 atm
<heno> and if we have time, enenergy and brains to make it better for dapper we will
<heno> but it can go in as it is
<TheMuso> Yeah.
<heno> Cool. I might be I have funky hardware or that a reinstall would fix it
<heno> I'll try it on the Live CD too when it turns up there
<heno> Great! point 3?
<heno> Is there somewhere we can see the packages currently on the live cd?
<heno> germinate something or other?
<TheMuso> heno: Yes there is. Give me a sec.
<ogra> heno, http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/dapper/live
<ogra> and http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/dapper/desktop
<heno> ogra: thanks. and hello :)
<TheMuso> Thanks ogra.
<ogra> (live contains desktop)
<heno> ogra: are you absorbing all these cool new AT features into Edubuntu?
<ogra> not yet
<ogra> i have massive space probs
<TheMuso> So it seems that the packages we need are not there yet.
<dholbach> we really need to know how much all these packages will take
<heno> ah, ok
<ogra> (cat include the example content)
<TheMuso> I found the same when checking one of the dalies the other day.
<heno> dholbach: yeah, I'm still in the dark on that
<ogra> *cant
<heno> ogra: hm, shame
<ogra> yup
<dholbach> ogra: it's just 8,7M :)
<heno> ogra: are you carrying the winfoss?
<heno> that will shrink this time
<ogra> dholbach, i dont even have 1M free
<ogra> heno, nope
<ogra> only edubuntu
<dholbach> ogra: throw away openoffice and add the accessibility stuff
<heno> I'm making some unilateral cuts :)
<ogra> and as long as we ship kdeedu we wont have space
<heno> makes sense
<ogra> dholbach, nope, i'll replace the kde stuff in dapper+1
<heno> replace OOo with koffice?
<sorush20> I can't even start gok 
<heno> sorush20: have you installed at-spi and restarted the X session?
<heno> sorush20: try starting it from the command line
<heno> see if you get any errors there
<sorush20> heno: shouldn't that be part of the dependency that needes to be installed.. I get the error that can't find registery.. 
<heno> sorush20: it should yes
<dholbach> sorush20: could you file a bug about that and include which version of ubuntu you use?
<sorush20> its running now thanks.. but at-spi sould be installed with it.. 
<sorush20> oka
<dholbach> thanks
<heno> brb
<TheMuso> I will see if I can chace up the total size of packages needing to be installed.
<dholbach> that'd make it easier to start a disciussion
<sorush20> what packages are you guys talking about ... and will there be a gui fo me to just check box the assistive stuff or will there be a blue screen? 
<TheMuso> Good old speakup. Managed to cause a bit of a kernel oops of some sort when trying to press several keys at once or close to each other.
<TheMuso> An now on another machine while I wait for that box to reboot. :)
<sorush20> brrb
<heno> sorush20: a black screen actually: http://www.simplifiedcomplexity.com/images/screenshots/dapper/flight4/gfxboot-big.png
<heno> and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GreatFeaturesOfUbuntu?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=AT-boot-menu.png
<sorush20> heno: so it hasn't changed.. that is bad... there should be something similar to xp installation where you can select extra stuff like a gui.. 
<heno> sorush20: actually our solution is better than the XP one
<heno> youb select this technology at the very first screen and off you go
<dholbach> it does the right thing for you
<heno> I've seen some shots of the vista installer though and that's looking strong on this
<heno> so they're catching up :)
<heno> dholbach: the Live boot
<TheMuso> heno: It won't be accessible AFAIK.
<sorush20> I guess you have a point.. although I think you would agree that it would be better if there were some icons.. like a disabled wheel chair.. stuff. like that to make it more visually enhanced.. 
<heno> I tried a live CD a few days ago, but I got no boiot at all then
<TheMuso> No good for us people with vision impairements.
<TheMuso> heno: I don't even think my casper stuff is on the live CD yet.
<heno> Ah, the wheelchair picture is therrible! :)
<TheMuso> Mithrandir only merged it a couple of days ago
<sorush20> TheMuso: you have a big point there.. 
<heno> I need to email the icon designer and make sure we don't get that :)
<Mithrandir> TheMuso: it could be on tomorrows if you want.
<heno> Mithrandir: yes please :)
<TheMuso> Mithrandir: No point in doing so until we have the necessary packages.
<TheMuso> on the live CD.
<TheMuso> Which is the point we are still discussing.
<TheMuso> I am trying to work out here just how much space they would take up, so bare with me guys
<heno> so what is the right process for that?
<heno> thanks
<TheMuso> We need to finalize what speech approach we are going to take, and if we have to use flite due to space constraints, there is no choice but to use speech-dispatcher. Yeah the driver is young, but we have no choice.
<heno> sorush20: here is a description of how it will work: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuExpress/Accessibility
<heno> the irony is that it doesn't seem to take that much less space
<sorush20> how are you guys going to do documentation for blind people? 
<heno> I'm hoping to push the new slimmer WinFOSS package out Sunday-ish, which should clear up a ton of space
<sorush20> talking about the interface between brail writer and linux? 
<Riddell> heno: what will (or not) be in that?
<heno> Then the plan is to just grab it again ;)
<heno> Riddell: I'll remove OpenOffice and see if people cry
<Riddell> that should free some space :)
<heno> the mailing lists seemed to agree on that
<heno> but I'll add some stuff
<Riddell> heno: will you do the same for the kubuntu winfoss?
<heno> of course some wanten no winfoss at all
<TheMuso> Ok. The debs themselves are about 10.6MB. When installed, 40.5MB will be used on disk.
<heno> Riddell: didn't we already skip OO on kubuntu?
<TheMuso> Give or take a few meg.
<heno> TheMuso: that's not too bad
<Riddell> heno: don't think so, can't actually remember now
<heno> Riddell: btw, I have anew layout now which IMHO is look sweet :) 
<heno> http://www.theopencd.org/LayoutIdeas
<heno> (sorry OT)
<TheMuso> heno: Thats not entirely accurate, as I am trying to work this out on a dapper chroot atm. That is with flite though.
<TheMuso> But as close as I can get it.
<heno> ah, ok
<heno> I'd be very interested to see Festival too
<TheMuso> Hang on.
<TheMuso> Festival on its own is about 16.1MB.
<heno> So we might land on about 22 as the Sun-gnome guys suggested
<dholbach> which packages? installed size?
<heno> that would be ok
<heno> deb size I guess
<TheMuso> We are concerned with the installed size as debs aren't used on the Live CD.
<heno> True, but I guess they give an idea of how well it compresses
<TheMuso> Yeah thats true.
<TheMuso> SHould have a deacent figure for you in a sec for gnome-speech with festival.
<heno> cool
<heno> enrico: did you ever get openoffice or firefox to talk to you in Italian?
<heno> I was reading about your efforts on planet debian I think
<TheMuso> There is only 3MB difference between flite and festival it seems.
<dholbach> hrm
<heno> right, so the choice seems obvious. perhaps flite is bundled with too much stuff?
<TheMuso> Festival packages compress down to about 5948KB from 16MB or so.
<TheMuso> I don't know.
<TheMuso> Festival would actually be a safer route, as it is an already tested gnome-speech setup
<heno> I think we should lobby for Festival then
<heno> yep
<TheMuso> Mind you that doesn't include any other voices for other languages.
<enrico> heno: haven't done that try yet
<heno> how big is GOK by comparison?
<enrico> heno: but I should be about to get a small working plan approved (and paid)
<TheMuso> heno: Well in that case, we also need to get libgnome-speech3, gnopernicus, libatspi1.0-0, at-spi and gok onto the CD.
<heno> enrico: really, to work on accessibility stuff? cool!
<dholbach> what about gnome-mag?
<TheMuso> and gnome-mag
* TheMuso would love to be paid for working on accessibility. :)
<TheMuso> BUt that will come in time. :)
<heno> what do you mean 'in that case'? Festival route?
<dholbach> how much would that weigh in?
<heno> TheMuso: definately! you are getting a proven track record as an expert :)
<TheMuso> heno: Gnome-speech with festival has been used dand tested extensively. It is a proven speech setup.
<enrico> heno: nothing signed yet, fingers crossed, lots of final work to do in the next few days
<enrico> TheMuso: we're talking not many hours so far, unfortunately.  But the good thing is that we are talking for a small pilot project to see how we get alng
<TheMuso> dholbach: about 37.9MB. It was bigger before for flite due to other gnome libraries having to be installed.
<TheMuso> So flite would probably be 34 or so.
<heno> TheMuso: is that the total with gok and everything?
<dholbach> + the speech-dispatcher dependencies
<TheMuso> heno: Yes.
<TheMuso> dholbach: That is not including speech-dispatcher or flite.
<heno> which we don't need with Festival
<dholbach> dotconf and speech-tool
<dholbach> dotconf and speech-tools
<TheMuso> They only get included with flite.
<dholbach> phew
<dholbach> yeah
<heno> TheMuso: OK, cool. It's good to have an approximate number number
<TheMuso> So as much as flite is smaller, I reckon we push for festival.
<TheMuso> festival is in main anyway.
<heno> I'll email the people who decide and ask nicely
<TheMuso> But for future relesaes, if the speech-dispatcher driver gets better, I would like to pursue that route for speech.
<TheMuso> heno: Thanks.
<heno> And Festival sounds soooo much better IMO
<TheMuso> Once we have the packages on the CD, we can then get the casper stuff done and start testing.
<TheMuso> Festival in the future allows for further language expansion should we need it.
<heno> TheMuso, dholbach: could one of you end me a list of the package names 
<heno> ? for my email
<TheMuso> I have your address. Sending now.
<heno> thanks
<enrico> TheMuso: note that festival might not be the synthesis of choice for some languages.  For example, while festival is a decent synthesis for Italian, there's a proprietary synthesis called 'Eloquence', for Linux, which is light years better
<TheMuso> Sent.
<sorush20> is the meeting finished.? 
<TheMuso> enrico: I know, but that is proprietary. We can't ship that.
<TheMuso> sorush20: We still have another point to discuss.
<enrico> TheMuso: sure
<heno> got it thanks
<heno> So point 4: the todo list needs cleaning up
<heno> Which is good news
<enrico> TheMuso: I just wanted to point out that I wish festival shouldn't be too hardcoded into things
<dholbach> yeah :-))))
<heno> perhaps we should split it into a dapper and a deferred section
<TheMuso> enrico: It isn't. However I don't see how that synth would work. Can you point me to some info about it?
<TheMuso> heno: SOunds good.
<heno> enrico: we should even consider making a derivative at some point where some priprietary stuff could in theory go in
<TheMuso> heno: Or at least packages to help one install proprietary stuff.
<heno> right
<TheMuso> As there are a few synths that gnome-speech supports that are proprietary, and I have access to them, i.e bought copies for testing.
<TheMuso> And on my laptop, I use one of them on a daily basis
<heno> One point on the todo list that we might want to bring up is documentation
<TheMuso> I am not good at docs. :)
<heno> that was doing really well but seems to have stalled
<enrico> TheMuso: should be around http://www.speechworks.com/demos/eti.cfm but I can't get to it now
<TheMuso> I think Jason is busy with life stuff.
<heno> I think Jaso got really busy
<enrico> TheMuso: more info will come when I'll actually lay my hands on it
<enrico> heno: for Italian, that'd be something I'd do
<enrico> heno: (I mean, the derivative)
<TheMuso> I get a download question. Won't let me view it as it should.
<heno> enrico: cool
<enrico> TheMuso: :(  I get a white page and a 1x1 pixel popup
<heno> I've spoken with mdke on the doc team and they arehappy to include it if we have something ready
<TheMuso> enrico: Worked out why, and I know eactly the synth you are talking about, as it is used in JAWS for Windows, and many mobile applications.
<heno> it would go in yelp
<dholbach> brb
<TheMuso> Eloquence is a well known synth in the blind community.
<TheMuso> THey changed name to Nuance COmmunications.
<TheMuso> Or something like that.
<enrico> TheMuso: there'd even be a 'Loquendo' for Italian which should be even better, but it has no Linux binaries as I know of.  Although I could have extreme plans of running it as a TCP service in a Window virtual machine inside a vmware player and making it speak from Linux :)
<enrico> (kind of like my old dosgate hack)
<TheMuso> Go to www.nuance.com for more info.
<enrico> But please, don't make me digress on proprietary software.  That's a stinky bit that shouldn't be particularly supported by this group.
<TheMuso> I know.
<TheMuso> I am all for free software, but proprietary synths are so much better.
<TheMuso> But that is another story.
<heno> Right, so we are at the end of the agenda I think
<heno> any other items?
<TheMuso> Not from me atm.
<TheMuso> dholbach: I should have a patch for gnopernicus with gconf settings later today.
* enrico should add a small point
<enrico> about self
<dholbach> TheMuso: that'd be great
<enrico> If all goes well I'm about to sign a small contract (100 hours for 2006) with a local high-tech center for the blind
<dholbach> TheMuso: we'll have a status update meeting at 2:00 utc, so i'll be awake for quite a while
<TheMuso> Ok.
<TheMuso> It shouldn't take all that long.
<enrico> they have skilled people (but not on Linux) and a big archive of accessibility hardware
<TheMuso> Then I can remove those changes from the casper script and push them through.
<enrico> the idea is to try to start looking at accessibility of free software, and atm that means Ubuntu
<TheMuso> Yeah.
<heno> enrico: cool. Look forward to working with you on that :)
<enrico> plans go along the line of "first get to do it.  Then document it.  Then improve it."
<heno> sounds like a good plan
<enrico> I look forward to working with you all on that
<enrico> and of course I hope the project goes well and it can be continued
<dholbach> cool :)
<enrico> documentation will be mainly in Italian, or centered at having an Italian speaking desktop
<TheMuso> It would be nice to get some of the team at least at the next conference.
<enrico> I could do translation of it, though
<heno> TheMuso: dholbach and I will certainly be there
* TheMuso is going to try and get sponsored to get there.
<dholbach> wooo! :)
<enrico> Ubuntu confs are fun
<TheMuso> Or seek other funding to help.
<heno> TheMuso: cool! We'll support you :)
<TheMuso> Cool, thanks guys. Even if sponsorship doesn't happen, there are other sources of funding I can certainly look at, which may help me get there anyway.
<heno> OK, I will go write some emails. Thanks guys. Good meeting!
<enrico> heno: thanks for telling me of the meeting.  I was in need of a pretext to tell everyone what I should going to be up to :)
<heno> heh
<TheMuso> heno: Thanks again.
<dholbach> thanks guys for all the good work you did :)
<TheMuso> No problem.
<heno> yep, we've got a good little core team going now :)
<Riddell> who's the best person to talk to about live cd accessibility profile for kubuntu?
<heno> depends on what aspect, probably TheMuso or Mithrandir or Kamion
<heno> or yourself :)
<Riddell> just need to find out how it's done so we can do the equivalent thing
<TheMuso> Riddell: FOr the GNOME accessibility settings, we are directly setting stuff in gconf.
<dholbach> Riddell: one part of it is in casper's casper-bottom/30accessibility
<TheMuso> The other part will be in the packages we ship on the CD.
<TheMuso> i.e gnopernicus will have the settings we want patched into it.
<TheMuso> So what you see in the casper script is going to change quite a lot in the next day or so.
<Riddell> where can I find that script?
<TheMuso> Ok guys, I'm outa here. Ping me in #ubuntu-accessibility or query me if you need anything.
<TheMuso> If you are using bzr, pull a branch from Mithrandir's casper trunk.
<Riddell> TheMuso: thanks
<TheMuso> I can get the address for you if you like.
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-03-07
<sladen> tick-tock-tick-tock
<JaneW> *yawn*
<ajmitch_> JaneW: up late?
<JaneW> I guess it's time to round up the troops...
* fabbione waves
<JaneW> ajmitch_: no, just got up (for meeting)
<Riddell> just when my sleeping patterns were in sync with GMT
<seb128> hey
<JaneW> hi fabbione 
<ajmitch_> first meeting I've been to for weeks 
<dholbach> pitt-ovic! :)
<pitti> welcome to the late night hacking show!
<seb128> morning pitti :)
* Kinnison grins
* mvo is tired
<fabbione> FYA
* Kinnison too
<doko> hi
<Kinnison> fabbione: dude, less of the Fing at this time of night
<Kamion> yawn
<fabbione> :)
<ajmitch_> Kinnison: this meeting time is useful for a change - just on lunchtime
<JaneW> ping:  heno,  keybuk, lathiat, Mithrandir,  ogra,  sivan ,Riddell
<Kinnison> feh lunch
<Kinnison> it's 2am
<dholbach> 3am
<iwj> Sleeeeeep.
<fabbione> JaneW: no ping for mdz?
<Riddell> JaneW never notices me!
<fabbione> ;)
<JaneW> fabbione: good point ;)
<JaneW> Riddell: argh! S-O-R-R-Y!
<JaneW> hi mdz
<mdz> good morning
<pitti> hi mdz
<JaneW> ping:  Mithrandir,  ogra,  sivan 
<BenC> JaneW: pong
<JaneW> sivang is unlikely to be up... although he wanted to try to push his goal in last week
<seb128> hi mdz
* infinity downgrades GTK and breathes a sigh of relief.
<dholbach> infinity: the world turns again? :)
<JaneW> hi BenC
<infinity> dholbach: As does the web browser. :)
<seb128> doko: you are going to make you some friends with that one :p
<mdz> ok, from the top today
<JaneW> seems just ogra and Mithrandir  are missing still
<JaneW> keybuk gave apologies
<mdz> yes, he has no internet access at his hotel
<JaneW> nod
<mdz> Benc?
<doko> seb128: the ia64 build failure is not mine
<mdz> BenC: you're up first
<BenC> Can you give me 5 minutes, I took a nap and didn't have a chance to write yet
<mdz> dholbach: ?
<dholbach> apt-get.org:  it's done! (628 FTBFS, 320 reviewed, 73 ready to go), list handed to James for syncing
<dholbach> example-content:  new tarball uploaded, example-content visibilification done, casper changes handed to Mithrandir (guess some love is needed)
<dholbach> this week (done):  GNOME 2.13.92, bug triage, apt-get.org 
<dholbach> this week (todo):  more bug triage - gnokii, gnome-phone-manager update and look into making GNOME bluetooth work again, maybe even nautilus-sendto with bt
<dholbach> next week:  UI sprint
<BenC> thanks
<dholbach> important:  popcon would be great to have to prioritize MOTU fixing efforts
<mdz> dholbach: when did the visibilification land?
<dholbach> example-content 3-0ubuntu1 uploaded today
<dholbach> the changes in casper are pending review from mithrandir
<mdz> dholbach: ping elmo about the RT ticket # for popcon; should be just adding an account for tollef
<dholbach> mdz: right, will do that.
<mdz> thanks
<mdz> doko: ?
<doko> [this week] 
<doko> toolchain-roadmap - final gcj-4.1.0
<doko> openoffice.org - nearing 2.0.2 (oob680m5 snapshot), experiencing more than one buildd/soyuz problem, beeing debugged together with infinity, i386 and powerpc builds succeeded, amd64 packages, ia32-libs* updated (hi seb128 ;), Riddell: please check kde), -l10n still building (12+ hours), should be ready for new processing tomorrow.
<doko> [next week] 
<doko> toolchain-roadmap - final gcc-4.0.3 (branch now frozen)
<doko> openoffice.org - sparc build, snapshot updates, language specific package checks and updates
<mdz> doko: so the oo.o rename is blocked on which bits?
<doko> it's not blocked, it's now waiting on the -l10n build to finish
<infinity> Which should go smoothly, just slowly.
<mdz> ok, so no soyuz problem with the binary reparenting?
<doko> then all packages should be unleashed in NEW
<infinity> (rothera thinks it only has one CPU right now)
<doko> mdz: no, other problems
<mdz> doko: how big is the current oo.o bug list?
<mdz> doko: everything set for the sprint?
<doko> mdz: have to write the final mail, but otherwise ok.
<mdz> ok
<mdz> thanks
<mdz> fabbione: ?
<fabbione> * server-candy: added LAMP install target to server CD. Missing/buggy: apache2 for "central snakeoil SSL setup" and kernel -server as default from CD install.
<fabbione> * ubuntu-cluster: OCFS2 kernel update and several hours stress test on upstream request. Waiting their release for new userland to sync with the kernel that will allow (finally) full desync later.
<fabbione> * RLIMIT_PRIO: Colin did upload pam last week, Matthias has the patch for bash (pending upload) and Jeff is preparing glibc (pending upload) so at the end i was assigned a task where i had to do nothing other than reporting at the meeting.. SCORE! ;)
<fabbione> * last week: a lot of bug fixing. Started working on espresso/partman changes yesterday.
<fabbione> * next week: i will be in holidays friday/monday and tuesday. otherwise i will be working on espresso and more bug squashing.
<doko> can't exactly say, more than one source, about ~150?
<mdz> doko: can you get the bash RTPRIO patch in?
<doko> mdz: oops, will do tomorrow
<mdz> fabbione: thanks
<mdz> infinity: ?
<fabbione> mdz: np
<infinity> * last week packaging: more initramfs-tools bugfixing, sort out "/var/run on tmpfs" issues for several daemons, fix up spiftacity to build, roll up PHP security release (will upload after some more testing), and investigate other (PEAR, libapreq2) security vulns.
<infinity> * lasw week buildd: very constructive remote sprint with cprov to get auto-dep-wait and auto-give-back handling in the launchpad buildds, spent a fair amount of time tracking down our current build failures, started rolling out sparc buildds.
<infinity> * next week packaging: Deliver some much needed love/polish to thunderbird, investigate how many initramfs bugs I can kill (or reassign to udev/kernel) before release without destabilising it in places where it DOES work.
<infinity> * next week buildd: finish rolling out sparc build daemons and get sparc caught up, work with cprov (no more sprinting, just minor fixes here and there) to sort out some other UI and buildd/queue behavioral issues.
<mdz> infinity: what's the status of the auto-dep-wait/auto-give-back handling?  work in progress for cprov?
<infinity> mdz: It currently works (yay!), but there's no UI representation of it yet until the next LP UI rollout.
<mdz> cool
<infinity> mdz: But I can assure you that it's functioning on the backend already.
<mdz> infinity: mark has requested that splash-down use a reversed progress bar (reversed colors, not direction); could you find out how much work that would be?
<infinity> (Which was a big blocker before trying to get sparc caught up, since caching up without auto-dep-wait is a very long process)
<infinity> mdz: Not too much effort, I may have to just add another argument to usplash to it knows it's in "down" mode...
<infinity> mdz: That wouldn't work in the case where you hit ctrl-alt-del during startup, though. :)
<infinity> (Which currently works quite smoothly, scarily enough)
<mdz> infinity: lower priority than sparc or buildd fixes, but Mark wants it unless we've a reason no t to
<infinity> Yeah, I can squeeze it in.  it won't be a destabilising feature, so we can get it in reasonably late.
<mdz> ok, thanks
<mdz> iwj: ?
<iwj> DefaultApplicationsFirefox: There has been some feedback from the `you have chosen to open ...' suppression.   epiphany and galeon need to disable the change which I made by default in gecko; seb128 will be sending a mail about this.
<iwj> DefaultApplicationsFirefox: No-one says so far that it prevents downloading, although the UI for getting a download is different now which has annoyed some people.  If you disagree with the new way please discuss it on ubuntu-devel.
<iwj> Firefox maintenance: otherwise fairly quiet.  A few outstanding issues; there will be an upload this week of course.
<iwj> AutomatedTesting: working on setting up Xen-based virtualisation for running tests in (for safe deployment on one of my systems here, and proof of concept for datacentre arrangements).  Defeated: Xen host, grub, mad bridge stuff.  Battling: lvm2.  To come: pbuilder, autopkgtest changes/improvements.
<iwj> AutomatedTesting: new package name `autopkgtest' is everywhere; old name to be deleted RSN.
<iwj> DeveloperDocumentation: no progress this week.
<iwj> Bugs backlog: firefox situation is not so bad if I ignore the unconfirmed reports.  In other news, tripped over and fixed an entertaining ssh/tcpd/SIGALRM bug today (see my activity report today, RSN).
<iwj> Email backlog: ~12h ish (mixed).
<Kamion> I think the remove-package script is still broken
<iwj> The firefox remove package script ?
<mvo> iwj: nothing from the pymozembed front?
<Kinnison> iwj: I think Kamion means the soyuz archive remove-package script which elmo wrote during the deployment sprint.
<iwj> No, I've heard nothing at all from upstream, I'm afraid.
<Kamion> what Kinnison said
<iwj> kinnison: Oh, right :-).
<Kamion> https://launchpad.net/products/soyuz/+bug/32314
<doko> iwj: could you make the alternative priority for x-www-browser higher in firefox than in mozilla-browser?
<infinity> We install firefox by default, so it makes sense for it to have a lower priority.
<iwj> doko: Err, sure.
<infinity> I'll just fix your thunderbird bug. :)
<iwj> You mean `so it makes sense for mozilla-browser to have a lower priority' ?
<doko> infinity: firefox should have a lower prio than mozilla?
<infinity> doko: besides, I have the same bug here with firefox/epiphany.
<mdz> iwj: ETA for automated testing deployment?  next week perhaps?
<infinity> doko: Defaults generally should have the lower alternatives prio..
<infinity> With the theory that if you install something else, you actually wanted to use it.
<iwj> mdz: If I'm lucky some time next week.  But it depends how ff goes, really.
<iwj> infinity: Um, I'm not sure I agree.
<doko> infinity: well, I have to install mozilla-browser, if want to use eclipse ...
<infinity> doko: But I'll fix your bug so thunderbird pulls the GNOME preference correctly.
<infinity> iwj: Well, we can all argue after the meeting, then. :)
<mdz> yes, let's
<iwj> Sometimes the reason something isn't installed by default is because it's too big and complicated.
<mdz> iwj: thanks
<mdz> BenC: ?
<iwj> But sometimes it's because we prefer the other thing.
<BenC> Dapper Kernel Status: All architectures seem to be stable. There are a few problems with PPC Sound on some system types. Work with BenH to resolve this. i386 and amd64 seem to be mostly 100%. The only major bugs seem to just be affecting the bug submitter. We are still seeing oopses in squashfs, not even on i386. The SquashFS maintainer has contacted me, and is trying to resolve what he thinks is an issue with unionfs interaction. No ot
<BenC> her major issues to speak of. If anyone knows of any real show stoppers, let me know now.
<BenC> Issues: Bug maint is really a lot harder with malone. Not sure if it's the newness, I'm really stupid, or Malone just doesn't like me. I haven't taken the time to really pin down the usage cases that makes it harder than bugzilla.
<mdz> BenC: what's the kernel bug list like?
<mdz> overall?
<BenC> it's stable in size, most of the bugs that have been coming in are getting fixed
<BenC> there are like 5 or 6 breezy regressions
<mdz> no backlog then?
<BenC> not really
<mdz> BenC: is the squashfs/unionfs issue https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.15/+bug/32070 ?
<BenC> I should say, not anymore :)
<BenC> ...
<BenC> yeah
<mdz> ok
<BenC> squashfs maint seems to think it is unionfs corrupting cache tables
<mdz> thanks
<mdz> Kamion: ?
<BenC> which makes sense
<jbailey> mdz: *pout*
<Kamion> ubuntu-express-copy-filesystem: Working on removing live-only packages; mostly done, just waiting on the buildd to deliver an extra manifest file (discussed with infinity earlier today). After that I only need to arrange to copy network configuration over and I think this spec will be implemented.
<Kamion> ue-language-packs: Preseeding glue added to support this, and the rest done as well. Implemented.
<Kamion> ubuntu-express-base-system: Merged Tollef's fleshed-out keymap page. It's QWERTY-only for now and the UI's just a big list of keymaps.
<Kamion> ue-partitioning-tool: Fabio's working on a disk selector; hearing encouraging noises. I finally got back to gparted upstream, so we should have some movement there soon too.
<Kamion> next-week: UI sprint. Keep on truckin' through UbuntuExpress/ToDo; expect to be concentrating on the partitioner. Might need to have another serious attack at the NEW queue and anastacia.
* Kamion idly celebrates getting his first essential-priority spec implemented
<mdz> jbailey: you said ahead of time that you didn't expect to make it
* dholbach high-fives Kamion for gparted upstream love! :)
<jbailey> mdz: Jane's already been dropped off once or twice in the meeting. Jane has my summary, but I'm so far holding in here for questions.
<jbailey> Pastes tend to cause this connection grief.
<JaneW> keybuk: No internet access from Hotel, so I will not be able to attend.
<JaneW> All specs are implemented, so no progress to update anybody on.
<JaneW> Friday: Internet line installed, tested and brought up; lost much of the
<JaneW> afternoon to getting e-mail sorted again and packing for trip.
<JaneW> Monday onwards: Multi-arch sprint in Oslo with Tollef. 
<JaneW> and ftr it's silbs who has dropped off-line (unless you are referring to me dropping of - to sleep)
<jbailey> Yes, sorry.
<JaneW> jbailey:
<JaneW>  * Last week: At a sprint.  New locales and new glibc uploaded. RLIMIT stuff is in, sparc patch is in, timezone fix is in.
<JaneW>  * Next week: glibc-2.4 upstream will release.  Will update test packages and get them autotested
* mvo hugs jbailey for the locales upload
* jbailey melts.
<JaneW> :)
<mdz> jbailey: glibc 2.4 doesn't sound like dapper material at this stage
<jbailey> mdz: It's not.  That the toolchainroadmapng
<mdz> ok, cool
<mdz> thanks for the locales/glibc uploads
<mdz> Kinnison: ?
<Kinnison>  * PowerManagementConfiguration: In simple terms the spec is now 'implemented'. I have integrated a lot of upstream changes and I have gotten upstream to take on a significant portion of the changes I made locally.
<Kinnison>  - What remains are bugfixes almost entirely. There are two oddities I'm currently investigating.
<Kinnison>  * General: Had day off for FOSDEM travel; continued investigating core-duo for powernowd. Assisted infinity with buildd stuff.
<Kinnison>  - Also filed bug about building superseded source for infinity/cprov to deal with.
<Kinnison>  * Future: Fixing bugs in g-p-m, attempt to solve powernowd issue. acpid and acpi-support may need love, still reading bugs. pbbuttonsd may need love to play nicely with g-p-m, or else g-p-m needs the loving.
<Kinnison>  - Also may end up assisting with bringing up new arch (sparc/hppa?) for buildds depending on if cprov/infinity have any problems or not.
<Kinnison>  * Blockers: Still waiting on kernel change to get a battery button key assigned. Upstream g-p-m are triggering battery display events on KEY_WWW right now because we can't find a better one.
<Kinnison>  * Bugs: g-p-m has 33 open; acpid has 3 open; acpi-support has 125 open; powernowd has 14 open.
<Kinnison>  - Can't give more detailed analysis right now because I haven't worked through it all yet.
<Kinnison> [EOR] 
<JaneW> Kinnison: Yay thanks for getting your spec Implemented so swiftly :)
<Kinnison> JaneW: Richard Hughes is a fantastic upstream to be working with.
<mdz> Kinnison: could you sit with Kamion sometime soon and see if you can help bring espresso on schedule?
<Kinnison> mdz: Sure, I could go to his some time this week
<mdz> Kinnison: great, extra hands may help
<Kinnison> Kamion: shall we work this out out-of-band?
<mdz> yes
<Kamion> Kinnison: yep, at a more sensible time :)
<Kinnison> Kamion: *nod*
<mdz> thanks Kinnison
<mdz> Mithrandir: ?
<Kamion> Kinnison: I'm UI sprinting for some of next week, but I believe perhaps not all
<mdz> Kamion: as little as possible
<Kamion> ok
<mdz> is Mithrandir here?
<mdz> JaneW: please follow up with Mithrandir by email, find out what happened
<mdz> mvo: ?
<JaneW> mdz: ok
<mvo> Did: 
<mvo> - wrote lp custom-upload-format handler for dist-upgrader and some support to generate a matching changes file, in contact the the lp people about it
<mvo> - dist-upgrade work, including some fixes and a local auto-test environment
<mvo> - misc: seeded gdebi 
<mvo> - testing/bugs/various updates (g-a-i, update-manager, gdebi, gksu, gnome-system-tools, python-apt) 
<mvo> "Hot spots"
<mvo> - can we filter out open bug-reports on unsupported packages in malone (#33342)?
<mvo> - is the debian bug importer that we had for bugzilla runing?
<mvo> Will do:
<mvo> - work with the lp people to get the dist-upgrader stuff into the archive
<mvo> - fix debconf problem during dist-upgrade
<mvo> - get hold of infinity to get the auto-dist-upgrade test chroot setup
<mvo> - bug fixing
<mvo> - ui sprint next week
<mdz> mvo: I will check into #33342
<mdz> there is currently no debbugs import, but there is a plan for one
<mdz> honestly, my impression is that we get more noise than signal from debbugs now
<mdz> the bad bugs mostly get reported independently to us
<mvo> my feeling is that it helped in the past a lot, so it would be nice to have
<dholbach> for the gnome bugs it was not so very helpful
<seb128> not, it was no use for desktop stuff
<mdz> quick survey on debbugs import?
<mdz> useful/not useful?
<seb128> not useful
<Riddell> I get all kde debian bugs anyway
<dholbach> not useful, sometimes useful packaging bits
<iwj> I'd say not very useful.  When it is you can look in debbugs anyway.
<jbailey> mdz: Not useful, glibc and lkh don't match Debian's.
<pitti> useful
<infinity> mdz: Less useful for desktop stuff, since we have a huge desktop following of our own, very useful for base/packaging/server stuff, where Debian users are plentiful and pedantic.
<mdz> infinity: agreed there; do you think we could usefully filter?
<infinity> Not sure, but it might be nice if we could.
<pitti> don't we have tasks for that nowadays?
<Kamion> occasionally useful for the installer, but I track most of the scary stuff anyway
<infinity> I track Debian bugs for all packages I maintain in Debian, but that doesn't come close to all the daemons I touch in Ubuntu.
<pitti> i. e. the importer shoudl create debian tasks maybe, and we can confirm or reject them by creating an ubuntu task or not
<Kamion> useful for packages we don't actively track, but not useful for packages we do
<mdz> mvo: is the upgrade tool in breezy-updates now?
<doko> useful for toolchain issues
<jbailey> I think most useful for me would be if it accurately tracked upstream status, so that if I link to an upstream bugtracker that I actually see state changes associated with it.
<mdz> jbailey: that's being fixed
<mvo> mdz: no, because the upgrader itself is not yet in the archive and no authentication is in place (because it is not in the archive yet)
<mdz> mvo: is the code written for authentication?
<mvo> mdz: should I ignore that and make it look into people.ubuntu.com/~mvo ?
<mvo> mdz: yes, but disabled
<mdz> mvo: yes, if a) it's going to take more than a couple of days to get into the archive, and b) it displays a warning (which it should anyway since it's upgrading to a development release)
<mvo> mdz: or rather, if no signature field is set in the meta-release file, it will not do checking
<mdz> mvo: once it's there, another call for testing should go out
<mvo> mdz: archive.u.c may happen to the end of the week
<sladen> Kamion: KEY_BATTERY=$KEY_F24
<mdz> mvo: if it doesn't make it by the end of next week, go ahead with people as a fallback
<mvo> mdz: ok, thanks
<mdz> thanks mvo
<sladen> Kinnison: KEY_BATTERY=$KEY_F24
<mdz> ogra: ?
<Kinnison> sladen: says who?
<infinity> sladen / Kinnison: -ECHAN
<mdz> is ogra here?
<JaneW> hmmm, possibly not
<Kinnison> infinity: sorry
<sladen> Kinnison: hotkey-setup currently does that mapping for HP's and Dells
<mdz> hrmm
<JaneW> I'll mail ogra
<mdz> thanks
<mdz> CC me, please
<mdz> on both mails
<mdz> pitti: ?
<pitti> status of unimplemented specs:
<pitti>  * langpacks-desktopfiles: DONE: fix all non-KDE packages which needed manual updating, spec completed; PLAN: discuss the stuff with gnome/fd.o upstream
<pitti>  * reducing-duplication: DONE: bounty for openldap gnutls12 migration set for vorlon; PLAN: gnutls 11->12 transition for all packages
<pitti> general stuff done this week: security updates, bugs, bugs, bugs, and CD testing
<pitti> plan:
<pitti>  * my spec implementations don't have any apparent big bugs, so I'm going to concentrate to utopia related bug fixes first
<pitti> most important outstanding utopia issue ATM is to fix the unmounting, so that icons go away when umount finishes, not already when it starts
<pitti>  * Sort out power management mess on ppc with Kinnison (pbbuttonsd and g-p-m fighting each other)
<pitti>  * I also have an awful lot of printing bugs, I could use a little help there if anyone is interested; otherwise I'll try to shake the worst ones out for dapper
<doko> pitti: gnutls for dapper?
<pitti> doko: yes, switch over the remaining packages
<pitti> all but openldap are trivial
<jbailey> pitti: If you have ppc printing bugs, I might help shake them out next week purely out of self interest.  Otherwise it's possible that the bugs I have just aren't reported yet =/
<pitti> jbailey: usually they aren't arch specific
<doko> ok, will have to remember to do that for ia32-libs-openoffice.org ...
<pitti> jbailey: which means that they also happen on ppc, so go ahead :)
<dholbach> pitti, mdz: i asked smurf but he said he didn't have the time for gnutls-openldap
<pitti> vorlon accepted the bounty, right infinity?
<mdz> dholbach: it's ok, we found vorlon
<dholbach> ok super.
<pitti> dholbach: see my second line :)
<iwj> pitti: If you need me to help debug gs, let me know.  I delved into it last cycle ...
<pitti> mostly cupsys and gnome-cups-manager
<pitti> but thanks for the offer, there might actually be some gs ones, too
<doko> iwj: on ia64 gs is broken (cannot find gs_init.ps)
<mdz> pitti: watch out for potential incoming todo items from the localization sprint; I will be there trying to enforce sanity but it's unknown what will happen yet
<iwj> doko: do you have a bug # ?  Or just assign it to me.
<infinity> pitti: He did, he already has prelimiary patches and is testing them locally before he hands 'em over.
<doko> iwj: there is one, will search and assign it
<pitti> infinity: wow, that was quick
<iwj> doko: Thanks.
<infinity> pitti: I think he likes the idea of being paid for once. :)
<mdz> infinity: perhaps it will give him a chance to work directly with us and see that we are not so evil after all ;-)
<mdz> thanks pitti
<mdz> seb128: ?
<seb128> This week: GNOME 2.13.92, updated a bunch of GNOME packages to ship a -dbg, session dialog change for "session lock" uploaded, load of bugs triage and fixing
<seb128> Todo this week: uploading gconf schemas registration speeding work, work epiphany(galeon) for firefox change, panel submenu asked by Mark, some polish on the session dialog, bug triage
<seb128> . 
<seb128> Next week: UI sprint
<mdz> seb128: are the panel change and session dialog polish the only bits remaining from dapper-desktop-plan?
<seb128> the panel change was not on dapper desktop plan, that's a bug mark opened like 2 weeks ago
<seb128> but other way session stuff is the only real point remaining yep
<mdz> ok
<mdz> the panel thing is the Help submenu then?
<seb128> and icons too ...
<seb128> but I'm not an artist so ...
<seb128> mdz: correct
<mdz> seb128: icons are arriving soon
<seb128> the screenshot on the wiki looks nice :)
<mdz> jdub says he will bring them into u-a but will keep you in the loop
<mdz> seb128: thanks
<seb128> k
<mdz> Riddell: ?
<Riddell> done: kubuntu-express: aiming to have initial release on Friday
<Riddell> also: uploading bug fixes from others, testing CDs for GNU/Linux User & Developer Magazine
<Riddell> next week: user interface sprint
<mdz> Riddell: how is the kubuntu bug list?
<mdz> Riddell: any change on kubuntu-documentation from last week?
<Riddell> large, we've got a decent bug team now sorting them which is great
<Riddell> major problems are CUPS 1.2 support and various system settings issues
<mdz> ok
<mdz> Riddell: thanks
<mdz> with 9 minutes to spare
<pitti> Riddell: hmm, the library API didn't change, and gnome-cups-manager worked with 1.2 even without a rebuild - what are the major issues here?
<mdz> any very quick questions or discussion topics, other business?
<Kamion> Riddell: are you keeping up with merges from espresso trunk?
<Riddell> pitti: KDE uses internal APIs for stuff that didn't have external APIs at the time
<elmo> mdz: ARE WE THERE YET?
<Riddell> Kamion: yes, not done so for a couple of days
<mdz> elmo: 50 days or so
<seb128> mdz: when did we get a consensus to use xchat for desktop? :)
<Kamion> ok, there was some stuff yesterday or so that will affect you - as usual ask me if you need clarification on what the frontend methods are supposed to do
<seb128> mdz: but that's not really a meeting question 
<Riddell> pitti: it's looking like the developer won't do the promised 1.2 support in time so we may have to have a cups 1.1 package
<pitti> Riddell: ouch
<mdz> seb128: we didn't; we had a consensus that we don't need an IRC client in desktop
<seb128> mdz: and xorg bugs list looks not cool ...
<mdz> seb128: fabio will charge into that after espresso
<seb128> oki
<pitti> oh, so we'll ship neither xchat nor x-g?
* fabbione wisper to mdz that he has only 24h/d.. but will try
<mdz> pitti: correct
<seb128> mdz: where has the "no IRC client" been discussed? Having one doesn't eat a lot and can be handy
<mdz> fabbione: I said 'after', not 'while'
<mdz> seb128: we already have gaim
<fabbione> mdz: now i feel better :)))
<seb128> gaim is lame for IRC
<mdz> seb128: IRC is sort of a developer / power user thing
<pitti> but most normal users actually use ICQ and such, not iRC
<seb128> "momentum users"? :)
<fabbione> mdz, seb128: i will be glad if somebody will start at least closing duplicates...
<fabbione> that doesn't require my 31337 X skills
<fabbione> and it will spare my time later
<mdz> fabbione: perhaps pitti has some time
* fabbione points is finger towards desktop
<seb128> I barely cope with desktop bugs flood but I can give it a try
<mdz> fabbione: or Kinnison
<infinity> I can dupe a bunch and close some obvsiously false reports, I just need to find some spare time to do so.
* mvo can helps after the sprint as well
<mdz> seb128: please, I need you to stay alive at least for the release
<seb128> mdz: ok ok, don't worry :)
<infinity> Oh, sure HE gets special "gets to continue living" treatment. :P
* seb128 intends to stay alive for the release and long time after that :)
<seb128> infinity: :p
<pitti> seb128: after all, we still need you for gnome 2.128 :)
<dholbach> mdz: i will bring tollef the good news, that he has popcon access :)
<mdz> ok, official notice: NOBODY DIE
<seb128> pitti: right, and that's quite a long time from now ;)
<Kinnison> mdz: aww
* pitti tries to remember that
* mvo makes a note to not die
* Kinnison wonders how long before he can go to bed
<JaneW> mdz: that's so sweet :)
<pitti> but we aren't in a London hotel, so the chances are pretty good :)
<fabbione> mdz: WHOOO HOOO
<silbs> Kinnison: you can't die, but you can't sleep either
<fabbione> mdz: thanks!
<infinity> pitti: <grin>
<mdz> silbs: a spy!
<seb128> Kinnison: if you wait a bit that will be time to wake up and no need to go to bed :)
<Kinnison> silbs: if I don't go to bed soon, rjek *may* kill me
<mdz> ok, we're clearly finished being productive here
<mdz> adjourned
<mdz> go to sleep
<dholbach> :-)
<pitti> yay, thanks all
<silbs> Kinnison: we'll tell him he's not allowed. 
<seb128> thank you mdz :)
<dholbach> night everybody
<JaneW> silbs: what are you doing up?!
<seb128> 'night
* fabbione goes back to work
<fabbione> later guys
<doko> good night!
<mdz> JaneW: silbs is on mdz time
<Kinnison> night all
* mvo fails asleep instantly
<JaneW> thanks all
<iwj> Thanks everyone for being dynamic and quick :-).
* Kinnison goes to bed
<JaneW> mdz: ahhh
<silbs> JaneW: I'm in a different time zone
<iwj> See you all after sleeeeeep.
* JaneW is about to go into a coma...
<JaneW> silbs: makes sense now :)
<netzmeister> wb raphink  :)
<raphink> ty
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-03-08
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:robitaille] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 3 Mar 21:00 UTC: Documentation Team | 7 Mar 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 8 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 9 Mar 08:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 14 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:robitaille] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 3 Mar 21:00 UTC: Documentation Team | 7 Mar 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 8 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 9 Mar 08:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 14 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 15 Mar 20:00 UTC: Kubuntu
<LaserJock> meeting?
<terrex> it should be already started :s
<LaserJock> ok, who all is here for the Doc Team meeting?
<manicka> I'm here
<LaserJock> hmm, doesn't look promising
<manicka> no
<robotgeek> i'm here too 
<LaserJock> hmm, well if naaman isn't here...
<manicka> there's not much to talk about...
<LaserJock> hmm, well does anybody have suggestions for the next meeting?
<bustacap> hello all, is the doc meeting on now?
<manicka> hi
<bustacap> oh poo where is mdke??
<robotgeek> bustacap: naaman isn't here
<manicka> lol
<bustacap> haha naaman is bustacap :D
<robotgeek> bustacap: oh, my bad. lol
<bustacap> hehe
* robotgeek smacks himself
<LaserJock> hmm, ok so not many people here then
<bustacap> I just woke up underneath my coffee table in the lounge room (did not know how I got there) at 7am (2100 UTC) thinking "oh shit, it's the Doc Team meeting"
<jjesse> not around for much longer
<bustacap> well, if there isn't any senior members in attendance - I will convene it...
* bustacap looks at the MeetingAgenda
<bustacap> I am still in my work clothes from yesterday (I had a decent drinking session straight after work ;) )
<bustacap> OK onto the meeting..
<LaserJock> well, I think that we might want to try a bit harder to get some agenda items for next time
<bustacap> we will just put issues to the next meeting without the people here to represent them
<bustacap> but onto the first one..
<bustacap> using common files in the DocBook documents
<bustacap> does anyone else (other than mdke) have something to bring up about this..
<LaserJock> I think a far amount of docs are using the common preface
<bustacap> I think this issue has been brought up before at a previous meeting..
<robotgeek> the Kubuntu docs use the common kde entities mostly
<manicka> there's a fair maount on commonality between the ubuntu and kubuntu dg's
<bustacap> is this the same as the ubuntu .xml files?
<robotgeek> manicka: hmm, i havent seen many common ones, to be honest
<bustacap> manicka, I think mdke is after is a common look and feel to all of the ubuntu documentation..
<manicka> ah, ok
<robotgeek> well, i don't know if we can discuss this without mdke being here
<bustacap> well to add my two cents - perhaps the preface might be a little different in the guides
<bustacap> but - the getting-help.xml should be exactly the same
<bustacap> it should point to the same web-help resources..
<LaserJock> what mdke and I were thinking about is about having a common preface
<LaserJock> and perhaps other common elements
<robotgeek> bustacap: for examsple the, mailing lists are different
<bustacap> for the getting help??
<robotgeek> bustacap: yes, ubuntu-users and kubuntu-users
<bustacap> well I think that the getting-help should encompass all versions of ubuntu
<jjesse> and the different channels
<bustacap> it should say in the USG - for help with Ubuntu -> go here; for help with Kubuntu -> go here..
<jjesse> i don't think there is enough commonality to get common files
<robotgeek> jjesse: +1
<bustacap> it is documented in the USG to convert over to Kubuntu in the USG
<jjesse> USG == Ubuntu Server Guide?
<robotgeek> bustacap: then the KDG takes over :)
<bustacap> so there should be help resources on where to go as well..
<bustacap> ok - fair call..
<robotgeek> bustacap: it's Ubuntu Desktop Guide, the "starter" term is removed now
<bustacap> ooh sorry ;)
<bustacap> I am out of the loop :)
<jjesse> to make a distinction between server guide nad desktop guide 
<bustacap> yeah..
<robotgeek> bustacap: i was too, until yesterday :)
<LaserJock> ok, but anyway I think the goal was to think about commonality so we can just change things once
<robotgeek> LaserJock: i believe the global entities are in one file
<LaserJock> right, but we talked about a common preface for example
<bustacap> oh, but it is a fair call to say that it is not worth doing..
<bustacap> it is a good idea in principle, but I say not to worry about it..
<bustacap> moving on - next item..
<LaserJock> but I think that the item is already implemented quite a bit so it might not be worth discussing in length
<robotgeek> LaserJock: yeah, i guess that is the way it is
<robotgeek> i copied KDG's preface from UDG
<bustacap> WikiCleanupProposal
<bustacap> manicka are you in on this?
<jjesse> i would argue for common files where they make sense... for example on the kubuntu side all the docs should use the same preface if they have a preface
<LaserJock> jjesse: exactly
<bustacap> for sure jjesse 
<LaserJock> jjesse: that was the point
<jjesse> sorry working so only paying half attention
<manicka> I'm prepared to help where i can
<bustacap> sure..
<robotgeek> jjesse: hmm, it's pretty easy to implement, i guess
<bustacap> it should already be implemented for same distro docs..
<LaserJock> bustacap: I don't know that it is exactly though
<bustacap> LaserJock, I don't think it would be too much effort to correct
<robotgeek> bustacap: it's just changing an entity for me, i'm sure it's the same for the rest too
<LaserJock> right, but people need to be aware of it and do it ;-)
<bustacap> we can say that the preface.xml and getting-help.xml aren't compatible with each other atm and it isn't a smart move to make them compatible in the future either..
<robotgeek> bustacap: preface.xml is document neutral, getting-help.xml is not
<LaserJock> ?
<bustacap> there isn't too much to be gained by making them the same document..
<bustacap> well preface.xml could contain more distro-specific information..
<robotgeek> it would make sense for a common preface.xml across both ubuntu and kubuntu
<bustacap> iirc, preface.xml in the UDG talks about the work put in by the kubuntu team to make an alternative to ubuntu
<robotgeek> bustacap: preface just says how the document is formatted and how to interpret it. 
<LaserJock> the preface contents are just a " these are the conventions, etc. used in the doc" and since those should be consistent...
<bustacap> oh ok..
<bustacap> well that could be the same then..
<robotgeek> and getting help could be common across all ubuntu documents, and all kubuntu docs
<LaserJock> it wasn't a huge deal it was just where we can have common items we should try to, so that we have consistency and eliminate redundancy
<robotgeek> true, it's only a small change to make, let's make it and keep moving :)
<bustacap> well include both Kubuntu and Ubuntu sources of help in both then..
<bustacap> yeah..
<bustacap> it will also create more awareness of Kubuntu when people are looking for help in the UDG as well..
<LaserJock> bustacap: the current common preface is distro neutral
<bustacap> ok - well make that common across all distros..
<robotgeek> LaserJock: maybe not
<robotgeek> i have Konsole instead of gnome-terminal
<bustacap> in preface??
<LaserJock> you guys, it is fine. I don't know what you guys are looking at but the common preface doesn't have anything distro specific that I know of
<robotgeek> To start a Terminal  session, select: Konsole  from the desktop menu system.
<robotgeek> maybe i should just rephrase that, lol
<bustacap> I wouldn't imagine that would be in preface.xml??
<robotgeek> that is in preface
<LaserJock> no it isn't
<bustacap> why would command-line operations be in a Preface??
<LaserJock> robotgeek: look at the Ubuntu Packaging Guide preface
<robotgeek> okay, atlease in the kdg preface :) http://doc.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/desktopguide-web/C/preface.html
<LaserJock> robotgeek: that is because it isn't using the common preface!
<robotgeek> okay, i think need to change it then
<robotgeek> :)
<bustacap> well that line could be easily stripped then..
<bustacap> it is unnecessary to tell a user how to open a shell from the Conventions section..
<LaserJock> arrghhh, guys, there is a common preface.xml that you can be using that is distro neutral
<LaserJock> you shouldn't have a preface.xml file in your doc directory
<robotgeek> okay, fine. will make the change
<bustacap> I think this is issue is now pretty much open-and-shut -> move on to making both files common across all documentation
<LaserJock> do you guys see it? in common/C/
<robotgeek> LaserJock: i see it, and will make the change now
<bustacap> alright - moving on to the next item..
<bustacap> WikiCleanupProposal
<bustacap> at the moment the WCP has been moving along quite well
<bustacap> I might move through a couple of points in it and where it is at..
<manicka> feedback on the list has been very productive
<bustacap> the Wiki Move..
<bustacap> there may need to be a day of the Wiki Team making sure that all of the important docs on the Wiki are categorised in the CategoryDocumentation before the wiki move
<bustacap> other than that - I cannot see any problems with the impending wiki move (whenever that happens)
<bustacap> any information about the wiki move?
<bustacap> there has been a spec put forward about it..
<manicka> I believe it was discussed at the last cc, but mdke wasn't there to clarify the issues
<bustacap> yeah, that's why he is going down the spec route rather than discussing it at CC meetings..
<manicka> discussion went round in circles a bit
<bustacap> it might even be in Launchpad
<bustacap> ok, moving onto Restructuring of the Wiki
<bustacap> bit of a shame mdke isn't here
<bustacap> but manicka you seem to be happy with mdke's proposal for the changes to UserDocumentation??
<manicka> I like the concise nature of his suggestions
<bustacap> yeah, it is a good cleanup
<manicka> the frontpage needs to be as simple as possible
<bustacap> I can see where he is coming from with his objections to my "Misc" series of pages
<manicka> yes
<bustacap> albeit a temporary solution to the problems whilst UserDocBeta was being built
<manicka> the problem I see is making it happen, there doesn't seem to be a lot of interest in the wiki
<bustacap> yeah, I am getting that feeling as well
<bustacap> I find that hard to understand given the usefulness of the Wiki
<manicka> such a large restructure needs a concerted effort
<robotgeek> true
<manicka> a few people can't pull it off on their own
<bustacap> from a sysadmin perspective - we are in the "google" age of looking for assistance with sysadmin tasks - the Ubuntu Wiki fits right in with looking for doco on the net
<manicka> agreed
* robotgeek is still trying to understand the issues :(
<bustacap> for sure manicka, but I think a quick restructure and then some slow and steady work by a few can improve it greatly
<manicka> yes
<bustacap> if there isn't enough support by the general Doc-Team, well yourself and I can take it slowly as long as it is supported (in ideals) by the Doc-Team
<bustacap> I don't want to be working on a project that the majority of the Doc-Team turn there noses up at..
<manicka> yes, agreed
<bustacap> that's why I have been trying to engage some dialog about the issue..
<manicka> so our first gioal must be approval of the idea
<manicka> the beta I mean
<bustacap> robotgeek, look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WikiCleanupProposal for a good introduction to the matter
<robotgeek> bustacap: reading it now
<bustacap> well I think that the beta may be dead given that mdke has gone and suggested his model
<bustacap> the whole subindexing - however - is not dead
<manicka> I was thinking of the long term model
<bustacap> yeah, see my initial opposition to mdke's model was that if we went to his model - we could not go back to the beta model if everything was ready in the background..
<manicka> there's no point putting a lot of effort into a background model if it won't fly in the long run
<bustacap> with his model - a new beta doesn't need to be drafted
<bustacap> I think the main thing that has come out of my proposals is that there is a need for some general sub-index pages across all subject areas
<bustacap> and whatever the main page model is - the sub-indexes will greatly help people find doco quicker and give them a really good understanding of what Ubuntu has to offer
<robotgeek> bustacap: +1
<bustacap> there needs to be more higher-level simple doco about Ubuntu and the apps it has
<manicka> yes and this would assist with the other goal of attracting forum people to contribute
<bustacap> absolutely
<robotgeek> bustacap: for example like the KQuickguide? 
<manicka> I'd just like to see something happen
<bustacap> manicka, once a conclusion has been reached about the main page model - I will be able to start drafting a recruitment drive for people from the forums
<bustacap> manicka, well once I have a chat with mdke - I will continue driving the issue
<manicka> ok
<bustacap> the problem was that I was not getting any feedback from the Doc-Team about the work and like have said - it seems that nobody cares about cleaning up the wiki - or like I said - nobody is saying anything because that don't agree about what I have proposed
<manicka> it's difficult to know either way
<robotgeek> bustacap: from me, i just have been too busy with other stuff
<manicka> I look at it this way. If you want help with the task I'll pitch in, but I'm really tired of all the background stuff
<manicka> the udsf issues have worn me out somewhat
<bustacap> robotgeek, it is just not about a short guide - it's about opening people's minds up to all of the possiblities of Ubuntu apps when they are searching for a specific issue - if somebody is searching for playing MP3s - the may browse on of the sub-index pages (MultimediaApplications is a good example) and discover all of the different MP3 players along with the video players etc... basically look for help in one subject area and be enli
<bustacap> ghtened in so many more :)
<bustacap> manicka, that is a fair call, I don't think we need to visit there..
<manicka> no, agreed
<robotgeek> bustacap: hmm, i like idea of subpages, Todd has been working on WifiDocs  converted the wireless pages that ways
<bustacap> and as far as the whole joint meeting went - I think there is a really positive attitude from the Ubuntu Forums to wholly support the Wiki once there is a suitable framework there..
<bustacap> yeah, I have liked Todd's work on getting something up and going..
<manicka> yes, a suitable framework is the key...
<bustacap> basically manicka, we need at least another 2-3 people involved in the project with the same committment as you and I to really get this off the ground..
<bustacap> and as far as I look at the whole doc situation - I think the UDG and KDG are in there final stages of being closed off for Dapper and the members of the Doc-Team should have some time to contribute to fixing up the Wiki
<manicka> hmm, that may be difficult. Most of the good people on the forums are working on 'other' projects
<manicka> but you never know
<bustacap> yeah, I know that - but I am after 2-3 extras from the Doc-Team initially
<robotgeek> i may have time, but i can't commit right now
<manicka> so we may see some activity in a few weeks
<robotgeek> commit time, i mean
<robotgeek> btw, i have some input to provide about our first agenda item
<bustacap> robotgeek, but by commit - I don't mean spending 2 hours every night on it - I just mean that you agree with the proposals put forward and I include you in any high level emails/discussions that may arise over the project..
<bustacap> robotgeek, I might wrap up the current agenda item anyway and close off the meeting
<robotgeek> bustacap: i'll go thru the whole issue over the weekend and get in touch with you?
<bustacap> sure, drop me an email (check private message)
<bustacap> basically, we could do with an extra 2-3 people committed to this project but either way - mdke's proposal looks good and I will slowly change the beta to suit
<manicka> ok
<bustacap> also, I will have a chat with mdke about his proposal and move it across to UserDocumentationDraft
<manicka> great
<bustacap> once approved at UserDocumentationDraft - it will replace the current UserDocumentation
<bustacap> and! I will then attempt to take over the WikiTeam docs as far as cleanup proposals, todo pages, etc to get the ball rolling..
<manicka> sounds like a plan
<bustacap> excellent
<robotgeek> :)
<bustacap> well I think that concludes today's meeting..
<robotgeek> holdon
* bustacap bangs a gavel :D
<bustacap> sorry robotgeek, bring up your issue, I am getting a drink of water and heading to bed - big night last night
<robotgeek> LaserJock: the preface.xml in KDG doesn't have all xml headers . Riddell removed them for something related to xincludes
<bustacap> night/morning all..
<robotgeek> bustacap: sure, later
<robotgeek> anyways, i could discuss this later. only to tell that i won't be making a change right now
<robotgeek> alrite, later all
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-03-09
<poningru> Mez: ping
<Mez> poningru, pong
<poningru> Mez: marting meredith?
<poningru> err
<poningru> -g
<poningru> thunderbird probs?
<Mez> yup :d
<poningru> will you still be around in half an hour
<poningru> cause I can help around that time
<Mez> #thunderbird ?
* jarufe is away: zzzZZZ
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-03-11
<jiangguowei> in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda    what does PatrickDavies(7/2) mean?
<sdquinn> jiangguowei, i think it means he was approved as a member on february (2) 7th (7)
<jiangguowei> sdquinn:thanks
<sdquinn> no problem
<jiangguowei> sdquinn: If one wants to be approved as members in community council meeting,How many  agree tickit should he win?
<sdquinn> idk, i'm not one
* Kyral is away: Shower!
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:robitaille] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 7 Mar 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 8 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 9 Mar 08:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 14 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 15 Mar 20:00 UTC: Kubuntu
<Seveas> jiangguowei, the majority of the community council (currently Mark Shuttleworth, Benjamin Hill, James Troup and Colin Watson) should approve a candidate
<jiangguowei> Seveas: I see. You are so kind
<Seveas> jiangguowei, you want to become a member?
<jiangguowei> Seveas:yeah,perhaps I will join the next  community council meeting.
<Seveas> jiangguowei, have you read wiki.ubuntu.com/NewMemberHowto - that should prepare you for it
<jiangguowei> Seveas:exactly.I have prepare  for this applying for a long time.
<Seveas> nice, what's your wikipage, I want to have a look 
<Seveas> (I'll be at the meeting tomorrow)
<jiangguowei> Seveas: I will attend the next meeting after tomorrow's.Are you Japanese? 
<Seveas> No, I'm dutch
<Seveas> jiangguowei, you should come to tomorrows meeting to as a preparation
<jiangguowei> Seveas:That's a good idea!
<jiangguowei> Seveas: I see  in your message,it is a Japanese character
<Seveas> I know, I abuse katakana for smilies
<jiangguowei> Seveas: it is cool.
<jiangguowei> Seveas: wiki.ubuntu.com/Victor39.  Can you support me on CC meeting?
<Seveas> jiangguowei, given that this is the first time I tak to you: probably not
<Seveas> jiangguowei, your wikipage does not realy show direct involvement with the ubuntu community or ubuntu development apart from the few test reports - you might want to emphasize on your contributions to Ubuntu a bit more
<jiangguowei> Seveas: :) . I will have my dinner in front of my computer tomorrow  for CC meeting.Because 12:00UTC  is 18:00 in Peking.
<jiangguowei> Seveas: You are right.
<jiangguowei> Seveas: then...
<Seveas> jiangguowei, if you edited the page ust poke me for new comments (dennis@ubuntu.com) - I'll have to leave in a few minutes
<jiangguowei> Seveas: OK. Thank you for your direction and suggestions .
<Seveas> wou're welcome 
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:robitaille] :  Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 7 Mar 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 8 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 9 Mar 08:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 14  Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 16 Mar 20:00 UTC: Kubuntu
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-03-12
<Spec> How do I translate UTC time to EST? ^.^
<MarioMeyer> UTC-4?
<MarioMeyer> just type: date --utc
<MarioMeyer> and it will show UTC time on your computer
<MarioMeyer> then u do the math
<Spec> any other way? :p
<MarioMeyer> ask someone who is in EST ? :P
<Spec> hehe
<Spec> so, if it's 10:45EST, 03:45UTC, then 12:00UTC would be 05:00EST ?
<MarioMeyer> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/
<MarioMeyer> nope 7:00 EST
<MarioMeyer> 5 hour difference, isnt it?
<MarioMeyer> u want to know the CC meeting time?
<MarioMeyer> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=3&day=7&year=2006&hour=12&min=0&sec=0&p1=0
<Spec> bah
<Spec> i knew that
<Spec> i'm bad at clock math :p
<Spec> so the meeting is at 7am
<Spec> i have a convention to attend to, to further the use of ubuntu that i'll need to leave for at around 7:45, and i'm applying to become a ubuntu member
<Spec> (FOSE)
<MarioMeyer> hummm... you are last on the agenda
<MarioMeyer> you should put a remark saying u might have to leave early
<MarioMeyer> gtg, Spec ... g'luck tomorrow..
<Spec> on the wiki?
<Spec> done
<phanatic> hi people
<G0SUB> phanatic :)
<phanatic> G0SUB: prepared? :)
<G0SUB> phanatic I am thinking about backing off :)
<phanatic> G0SUB: no way back from here :P
<rob> ?
<G0SUB> rob we have put ourselves for membership :)
<rob> oh I see
<rob> good luck :)
<G0SUB> rob thanks !
<MarioMeyer> morning all..
<phanatic> hello MarioMeyer
<G0SUB> MarioMeyer :)
<raphink> hi guys
<G0SUB> raphink hello!
<raphink> :)
<MarioMeyer> heya raphink 
<raphink> hi MarioMeyer
<jelkner> morning flint
<flint> jelkner, excellent, where is Wheeler?
<jelkner> i don't know
<jelkner> it isn't 7 yet
<rob> is on my clock
<jelkner> rob: 6:52 am
<rob> well, 10 pm at least
<raphink> 7 minutes before meeting on my clock
<G0SUB> yep
<flint> you all sound like the old SGI time protocol :^)
<raphink> huh?
<flint> raphink, the old Silicon Graphics IRIX system used to get on the wire and the machines would argue and vote to sync the time on the ethernet segment.... no kidding.
<raphink> ah 
<raphink> lol
<flint> yo Kevin!
<kjcole> flint, grrrr.
<MarioMeyer> flint, that still used for some distribution computing..
<sivang> hi all
<sivang> CC meeting now?
<highvoltage> flint: howdy
<G0SUB> sivang :)
<sivang> G0SUB: hey there :)
<MarioMeyer> sivang, according to raphink CC meeting in 3 minutes :P
<flint> highvoltage, excellent morning to you from Vermont Jonathan...
<Spec> oh god
<kjcole> sivang,  so  claimeth  the calendar.
<Tonio_> hello all
<flint> kjcole, it is early eh?
<Spec> i didn't get any sleep, i couldn't get to sleep all night :-/
<highvoltage> flint: and an excellent afternoon to you from Cape Town, Mr Flint
<kjcole> flintn, exactly.
<sivang> flint: in Cape Town? cool
<flint> kjcole, boy I picked a bad morning to give up Heroin... :^)
<flint> kjcole, try coffee
<flint> sivang, actually I am in Vermont, on one side of the world and Jonathan Carter is on the other, in Cape Town SA.
<flint> sivang, and in fact is is cooler in Vermont.
<sivang> flint: I can imagine :) I liked .ca when I visited there during UBZ
<sivang> although I had seen only Montreal
<Seveas> isn't it friggen early in vermont?
<Spec> The wilderness is better
<spacey> hi
<MarioMeyer> heya Seveas 
<Seveas> hi
<flint> Seveas, is is MF'ing early in VT and DC...
<Spec> agreed
<jelkner> flint: nah, i've been up for hours ;-)
<kjcole> flint: So, wither the young Mr. Wheeler?  (Or is he here incognito?)
<flint> jelkner, Jeff, everyone knows you are a mutant...
<jelkner> Spec: is mr wheeler
<Spec> indeed
<G0SUB> Gloubiboulga :)
<flint> Spec, excellent... good morning...
* G0SUB is Baishampayan Ghose
<Spec> when're you headed towards FOSE kjcole?
* allee is Achim Bohnet
<jelkner> Spec: thanks for the great work you did on the website!
<kjcole> Spec,  I *WAS* going to shower and head out early.  People said things open at 9:00 but I was guessing  8:00... However, a phone call woke me, and I'm here instead. ;-)
<Spec> hehe
<Spec> I'm going to head out at 7:45, I'm meeting ndanger at microcenter at 8-8:15
<G0SUB> minghua !
<minghua> hello G0SUB 
* rob looks back in
* raphink Raphal Pinson
<kjcole> Spec: I haven't checked out your handiwork yet.  (I got into IRC and haven't done anything else yet.)
<MarioMeyer> heya jerome
* kjcole is Kevin Cole
* simira is Karianne Grnningster
* ompaul is PaulO'Malley wiki http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PaulOmalley
* jelkner is Jeff Elkner
* MarioMeyer is Mario Meyer
* spacey is Herman Bos
* allee is Achim Bohnet
<simira> is the CC present yet?
* rob is Robert Stoffers
<Kamion> afternoon folks
* highvoltage is Jonathan Carter
<sivang> simira: that's what I was wondering :)
* dolson is Dana Olson
* G0SUB is Baishampayan Ghose https://launchpad.net/people/g0sub
<Kamion> dunno about elmo, he had a very long day yesterday+the-day-before
* Seveas is Dennis Kaarsemaker
<Seveas> hi Kamion 
* ogra is OliverGrawert
* Spec is Nicholas Wheeler https://launchpad.net/people/dragoncow2
* sivang is Sivan Greenberg
<flint> flint, is flint
* jsgotangco is Jerome Gotangco
<jsgotangco> hi MarioMeyer !
* Kamion attempts to arrange for sabdfl to be pinged
<raphink> hehe
* phanatic is Szilveszter Farkas https://launchpad.net/people/phanatic
<gora> gora is Gora Mohanty, from India
<rob> everyone seen the uncyclopedia entry?
<sivang> Kamion: you in the london sprint as well? might be useful to get someone from there to get him to IRC client :)
<simira> yes, nice :)
<jsgotangco> heya silbs 
<Kamion> sivang: I was there yesterday, but not today
<simira> hi silbs 
<silbs> hi jsgotangco
* jasNIX is Jasbir Khehra, from India 
<Seveas> rob - please stay on topic during the meeting (ok, didn't start yet but practice makes perfect)
<sivang> Kamion: ah, k
<sivang> hey silbs :)
<rob> Seveas, yeah just waiting
<flint> hey boys and girls, it is 07:07 here in the Frozen North, when does this parlay start?
<jsgotangco> when we complete a council
<mdke> flint, when the council arrives
<Seveas> Kamion is doing his best to have them poked
* jsgotangco reads agenda for starters
<rob> done that about an hour ago :)
<simira> please repeat
<rob> simira, check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<jsgotangco> :P
<highvoltage> where's the agenda stored again?
<simira> rob: yeye, I know how to read. But I don't see much difference from last meeting... I thought there ought to be other topics as well
<rob> highvoltage, that link above
<Kamion> sabdfl will not be here; I'll phone elmo
<Kamion> unfortunately it seems a bit implausible that we'll get mako at this time, although I can try
<flint> it is no doubt in my mind that the community council is meeting over lunch...:^)
<raphink> hehe
<rob> flint, not everywhere in the world it is lunch
<Kamion> no reply from elmo's phone
<Kamion> flint: that would work better if we were all in the same place ...
<Spec> rob: yes it is
<Kamion> (sabdfl sent apologies, BTW)
* simira just had lunch
<flint> rob, in fact only at GMT is it lunch...
<rob> thats right
<sivang> simira: you also in LOndon?
<ompaul> flint, na its too early midday 15?
* spacey having lunch :p
<Kamion> and of course I can't find mako's phone at the moment because obviously he isn't on the Canonical phone list any more. bugger.
<gora> Well, I am having lunch here at GMT+05.30
<simira> sivang: no, Oslo. GMT +1
<Kamion> Um. This might not work very well.
<imtheface> mako missing?
<G0SUB> hehe
<imtheface> :)
<sivang> Kamion: you're the only persistent CC member that's always on :)
<raphink> it's lunch time for most europeans
<Kamion> imtheface: 7am for him by my calculations
<Spec> he's in my timezone
<Kamion> although IIRC he was OK with the time
<Kamion> mako isn't full-time on Ubuntu any more though, so it's not always feasible for him to turn up
<Kamion> why don't we go over matters which don't require a vote, and I'll attempt to fly solo
<jelkner> question:  will we be discussing the "Member candidates for consideration"?
<Kamion> I believe that's just the IRCops thing
<Seveas> Kamion, and locoteams
<rob> yeah, pretty much
<Kamion> jelkner: if we don't have quorum, that's pretty hard
<jelkner> ahh
<azeem> mako went to bed 6 hours ago, it seems
<jelkner> i'll need to leave to teach
<jelkner> i wanted to go on record in support of nick wheeler
<Spec> thanks, have fun teaching :p
<flint> Kamion, you could resolve to vote later, nominate on contingency of a vote.
<Seveas> flint, with only one present that's icky
<Seveas> s/one/one CC member/
<SteveA> Kamion: http://mako.cc/contact.html
<Kamion> flint: we could do, but we'd be voting later anyway. FWIW all the proposed members look qualified to me
<flint> Kamion, flint goes on record to endorse wheeler as a MOTU
<Kamion> Seveas: ah, thanks
<MarioMeyer> heya segfault 
<jsgotangco> this isn't a Technical meeting
<Kamion> er
<segfault> mariomeyer: morning :)
<Kamion> SteveA: ah, thanks
<Kamion> tried mako's phone, got voicemail
<ompaul> Kamion, the mobile is the shortest route to mako
<Kamion> ompaul: that's the one I tried
<ompaul> ahh
<Kamion> ok, let's go over this IRC ops issue
<Kamion> is Robert Stoffers here?
<rob> yes
<Seveas> rob is him
<Kamion> ah, that's you
<Seveas> rob is Freenode Staff, ubuntu member and docteam person - 
<Kamion> what other active Australian ops do we have? IIRC from the last meeting that our coverage there was wea
<Kamion> k
<Seveas> we have no other active ops in that area
<Seveas> bob2 is MIA, ajmitch isn't active in #ubuntu
<Kamion> jelkner: thanks, BTW - noted your support
<Kamion> daniels is more or less MIA now too
<spacey> mia?
<Seveas> missing in action
<Kamion> well, fooishbar as he is on the ops list
<ompaul> thoreauputic when he can get a moment
<jelkner> Kamion: great, thank you
<Seveas> daniels hasn't been active in there in quite a while
* apokryphos nods
<rob> as a freenode staffer I can take cloaks directly, sort out problems quickly, get in direct contact by phone with freenode head of staff (Rob Levin)
<azeem> jdub?
<apokryphos> not that active in #ubuntu
<Seveas> rob, hah, I have lilos pager/phone too ;)
<azeem> if you allow a side question, is there a mechanism to page ops if needed as in #debian?
<sivang> MIA sounds so military :)
<Seveas> azeem, !ops in the channel
<Kamion> I see very little reason to object to somebody who's in the position of being *both* network staff and an Ubuntu member :-)
<azeem> Seveas: ok
<rob> heh, I have his and his other halfs mobiles :)
<Seveas> Kamion, ny thoughts exactly
* Hobbsee may be able to do some IRC op'ing, and is in australia
<jsgotangco> we're very much near a monopoly then
<jsgotangco> heh
<Kamion> so please go ahead and give rob #ubuntu channel operator privileges
<rob> thanks :)
<Seveas> I think rob can do that himself ;)
<ompaul> hehe
<Hobbsee> in #ubuntu as well, that is
<jsgotangco> heh
<rob> no, needs approval from jdub or someone else who works at ubuntu
<Kamion> technical ability and operational permission are different, as any sysadmin will know ...
<Seveas> rob, I am channel/group contact - consider this approval
<rob> ah, when did that change?
<apokryphos> some time ago
<Seveas> less than 2 weeks ago
<apokryphos> oh :-O
<Kamion> rob: I'm Canonical staff and a CC member, so that should do too
<rob> sounds good to me
<Seveas> group contact a few months ago
<apokryphos> ah yes
<Seveas> Kamion, I'd like to reject the other suggestion (ubuntu/member/* as op) 
<rob> never mind anyway, I'm thinking of a cloak (you can just add me to your access list Seveas) 
<ogra> Seveas++
<Kamion> Seveas: I have to agree with you on that, as I mentioned on the wiki
<Kamion> is jpatrick here?
<jsgotangco> whitelist doesn't work always
<MarioMeyer> Seveas++
<Seveas> -ChanServ- [rob]  has been added to the access list for #ubuntu with level [10] 
<rob> thanks Seveas 
<Kamion> obviously any member can be considered as an op, but I don't want the two concepts to be identical
<apokryphos> Kamion: doesn't seem to be on IRC atm
<rob> I think it would be a very bad idea to allow every member ops in #ubuntu
<Kamion> well, the note is on the wiki for him
<Kamion> locoteams
<Kamion> smurf: here?
<Seveas> Kamion, by that reasoning all ubuntu members should be forum administrators too 
<rob> just make them show up here at a meeting, and get the nod
<MarioMeyer> if all members were ops we could have a LOT of people applying for membership only to get ops.
<Seveas> MarioMeyer, true that
<rob> thats true too
<Kamion> Seveas: exactly
<apokryphos> some do with that in mind, anyway.
<rob> and a lot of people are just not suitable for it anyway
<azeem> since when is being ops fun, anyway?
<rob> its not :)
<Seveas> ok, I consider it rejected - I'll ask jpatrick for his side of the reasoning and maybe put it back on the agenda
<Spec> for the record, i don't want to be an op on irc :p
<Kamion> thanks
<spacey> i surely don't want to be an irc op :p
<Seveas> locoteams
<Seveas> G0SUB, indianteam
<rob> ok, I'm off to bed, bye
<highvoltage> poeple who have @hotmail.com accounts want to be ops, usually.
<G0SUB> Seveas yes
<apokryphos> azeem: it's a common thing; if you're in a community for some time, it's not so farfetch'd to see ops as an elite participant in the community. Some people like the concept of more power. ;-)
<smurf> Kamion: somewhat
<G0SUB> Can I paste an introduction?
<flint> apokryphos, some people want to eat the sausage, and not know how it is made...
<Seveas> G0SUB, please do (about the inian team - not yourself)
<G0SUB> yes ...
<G0SUB> Hello, we are here to apply for `official status' for the Indian LoCo
<G0SUB> Team. We have done quite a lot of work for both Debian & Ubuntu in the
<G0SUB> past and have worked on issues related to Indic Computing. Our members
<G0SUB> continue to contribute to the two projects in terms of localisation and
<G0SUB> development. Most of us have worked for Debian as a part of the
<G0SUB> Debian-IN Team. For example, soumyadip here is the maintainer of
<G0SUB> ttf-indic-fonts & numerous Indic aspell dictionaries for both Debian &
<G0SUB> Ubuntu. gora has done a great amount of Oriya translations
<G0SUB> (https://launchpad.net/people/gora-mohanty), I am the maintainer of the
<G0SUB> Debian Graphical Installer Bengali Translations and a member of Ubuntu
<G0SUB> Bengali Translations Team (https://launchpad.net/people/g0sub). svaksha
<G0SUB> co-wrote the Sanskrit (sa) Locale with Christian Perrier, and there are
<G0SUB> a lot of other members who have contributed a lot in terms of l10n and
<G0SUB> bug reports, and not to mention advocacy and distributing CDs.  So here
<G0SUB> I would request the CC team to grant the Indian LoCo Team official
<G0SUB> status and let us continue our work as the LoCo Team for India.
<G0SUB> ...
<Kamion> whoa, big intro
<Seveas> good intro
<G0SUB> hehe
<G0SUB> a big country :)
<Seveas> How many members does your team have?
<Kamion> how's Ubuntu been received in India?
<G0SUB> Kamion Ubuntu is almost #1 in India
<Kamion> I know that the installer's been weak on many Indian languages due to console limitation
<jsgotangco> ive seen pics of sabdfl swamped by locals during his tour in india
<Kamion> s
<G0SUB> Seveas we have 15+ people if you consider translators
<gora> Seveas: 23 signed up at last count: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IndianTeam
<Kamion> hopefully that will change with the live CD installer (and I hope we can get testing and translations from you guys)
<G0SUB>  of all languages
<Seveas> G0SUB, not bad!
<Kamion> G0SUB: almost #1> whom do we still need to beat? :)
<G0SUB> hehe
<Seveas> I really like that the team is active in both Debian and Ubuntu
<gora> Kamion: Le chapeau rouge
<Kamion> ah, predictable
<G0SUB> Seveas we have Debian-IN project specifically for this ...
<Spec> (Where can I find a list of existing LoCos?)
<gora> Not to mention that most of us also work for IndLinux (http://indlinux.org) language teams, though this is not an official IndLinux project at the moment.
<Kamion> Is there anything you guys need help with?
<Seveas> Spec, LocoTeamList on the wiki
<G0SUB> Kamion we need infrastructure like a website, mailing lists, ubuntu-in.org, etc.
<G0SUB> Kamion I have mailed Henrik Omma about that already
<Kamion> as I understand it smurf generally can/does deal with a fair bit of that
<G0SUB> yes, smurf too
<Kamion> although he does a sufficiently good job that I have remained blissfully unaware of the details :-)
<Kamion> if there's a delay on mailing list creation, contact jdub
<Seveas> mailing lists  jdub, ubuntu-CC.org  smurf
<G0SUB> Kamion and there are a few things, like a few apps with Indic specific patches ... we would like to have them in Ubuntu
<Seveas> website: your own responsibility afaik -- does Ubuntu/Canonical offer hosting?
<G0SUB> Seveas they do
<Kamion> G0SUB: perhaps you could put together a hit-list somewhere and post a URL to that list to #ubuntu-devel
<Kamion> Seveas: linode
<G0SUB> Kamion yes, we are already working on putting together a list
<Kamion> (iirc)
<MarioMeyer> Kamion, serverponto also
<G0SUB> it's Linode and is provided by Henrik Omma according to the wiki
<Kamion> ok, I see no problem with granting the Indian team official status, if smurf is happy with how things are going
<G0SUB> :)
<jsgotangco> the linodes are not available anymore
<G0SUB> oh
<jsgotangco> what we have are server prontos
<Kamion> smurf: if you can deal with that out of band, that'd be great
<Kamion> next up is the Chinese team
<freeflying> Kamion: locoteam stuff past?
<jsgotangco> we can work it out later
<gora> Cool, thanks.
<freeflying> Kamion: hi
<G0SUB> jsgotangco great!
<G0SUB> Kamion thanks!
<Kamion> freeflying: would you like to give an introduction with what you guys have been doing?
<Kamion> and anything you need help on
<freeflying> Kamion: will we ChineseTeam be confirmed 
<freeflying> Kamion: about ubuntu-cn locoteam
<Kamion> yes, I know what your request is. :-)
<Kamion> are there other Chinese team folks here as well?
<freeflying> Kamion: no 
<Kamion> unfortunately I cannot read the web site to try to get an idea of activity, organisation, how well the Chinese team is getting along internally, etc.
<jsgotangco> is there a -cn channel in freenode?
<freeflying> jsgotangco: #ubuntu-cn
* raphink thought chinese was zh :s
<jsgotangco> ahhh
<Kamion> raphink: language => zh, country => CN
<freeflying> ubuntu-zh@lists.ubuntu.com 
<raphink> Kamion: thanks
<freeflying> our website : www.ubuntu.org.cn
<freeflying> wiki.ubuntu.org.cn
<freeflying> archive.ubuntu.org.cn
<freeflying> Kamion: so , how about all these for being confirmed ?
<Kamion> ok, unfortunately I cannot really get any useful information from those without speaking Chinese
<Kamion> I need somebody to be able to talk with me about your team's activity levels, what you've been doing, and how Ubuntu is getting along in China
<freeflying> Kamion: Riddell can 
<Kamion> Riddell isn't a member of the Chinese team, surely?
<raphink> hehe
<jsgotangco> hehe
<freeflying> Kamion: but he know we have done for ubuntu
<jsgotangco> but Riddell has been very helpful on the chinese team 
<jsgotangco> especially that cd
<Kamion> I think I need to have a few more folks from the Chinese team here
<silbs> Kamion: if I may, from an email I have a list of some things the Chinese team have done
<silbs> I'm going to paste, if that's okay
<Kamion> silbs: sure, I'm just uncomfortable with a single guy showing up :-)
<silbs> 1.    Resolved OOo2 crash while input chinese.
<silbs> 2.    Submit skim and scim input method into Kubuntu and Ubuntu repo.And resolved the compatibility between them.
<silbs> 3.    Merge some GPL CJK fonts into a "Free CJKunion" font.Covert some chinese TTF into vector fonts.
<silbs> 4.    Added a new BugReport system on forum.
<silbs> 5.    Actived two mailling list : ubuntu-zh@lists.ubuntu.com and http://groups.google.com/group/ubuntu-cn
<silbs> 6.    Released a better fontsconfig for chinese users.It resolved bold and italic fonts show in chinese.
<silbs> and I believe they are planning to have a dapper release party
<Kamion> freeflying: have you made any progress on resolving differences within the Chinese team on such things as SCIM support details?
<ogra> freeflying, whee, you are silbs-monitored .... :)
<silbs> there are, Ibelieve, about 6 active members in the team
<silbs> and interest is growing
<jsgotangco> freeflying, do you know EricNeon?
<freeflying> jsgotangco: ya
<jsgotangco> hmm he's not around at the moment though
<Kamion> is there a bug report for that improved fontconfig?
<freeflying> Kamion: actrually , now is the dinner time for we here now , so guys can not access irc
<EricOSfire> hello ~
<silbs> Kamion: I'm not sure what LoCo team decision criteria are, so don't know if this is enough. But I do think these guys represent the most active community presence we have in China
<Kamion> freeflying: ok, I realise timings aren't always ideal
<jsgotangco> oh there he is
<freeflying> EricNeon|CNteam: Kamion wanna know something f our team
<EricNeon|CNteam> good
<freeflying> EricNeon|CNteam: so plz , say something 
<EricNeon|CNteam> Kamion , nice to meet you !
<Kamion> likewise
<Kamion> 12:36 < Kamion> freeflying: would you like to give an introduction with what you guys have been doing?
<Kamion> 12:36 < Kamion> and anything you need help on
<Kamion> silbs has given me some comments about what you've been doing already
<Kamion> how is Ubuntu getting along in China?
<EricNeon|CNteam> ng~
<jsgotangco> its a big place :)
<Spec> I have to go, I'll try to make it to the next meeting. Gotta go promote Ubuntu at FOSE.
<Spec> Hopefully there are more CCs next time :)
<Seveas> bye spec
<freeflying> Kamion: we are struggeleing advocateing ubuntu in china now 
<flint> Spec, I take it that you are in nomination...
<Kamion> Spec: sorry about that :-/
<EricNeon|CNteam> Kamion,as you know, ubuntu china team have more then 5000 members
<raphink> Spec: drop by on #ubuntu-motu some time if you wish to become a MOTU
<Spec> Kamion: no problem, :p
<jsgotangco> whoa
<MarioMeyer> morning licio 
<flint> Kamion, what is Wheeler's state at this time.
<Spec> sober
<Seveas> EricNeon|CNteam, 5000 members?!?
<Seveas> woah...
<Spec> that's quite a few members
<Seveas> how many of them are active?
<EricNeon|CNteam> Seveas: absolutely!
<jsgotangco> in china, everything is big
<licio> MarioMeyer, good :-)
<EricNeon|CNteam> heh~
<jsgotangco> its beating texas
<jsgotangco> heh
<Kamion> EricNeon|CNteam: as I didn't know, but thank you :-)
<Kamion> flint: we have an agenda
<ompaul> Seveas, picture this one in a million in China is one in 1400
<freeflying> Kamion: shall i paste what we have done 
<flint> Kamion, no disrespect, just asked what his status was at exit.
<kjcole> I too am off to FOSE.  We've got 2500  Ubuntu CD's to hand out. ;-) (FOSE = Federal Office Systems Expo --  US federal government's biggest computer conference)
<Kamion> flint: let's take this to /query to avoid disrupting a discussion in progress
<EricNeon|CNteam> there are more then 30-50 members of core team 
<Spec> (don't get me in trouble, flint.)
<flint> Spec, I only advocate 100%.
<Seveas> EricNeon|CNteam, that's quite nice - now if only you guys could make CJK rock ;)
<Kamion> EricNeon|CNteam: that sounds like pretty good progress; how is the team getting along internally?
<jsgotangco> they translated the whole site
<jsgotangco> whoa
<jsgotangco> even the partners page
<Kamion> we should be able to get most of the scim changes into main fairly soon, which should help for CJK support
<EricNeon|CNteam> we builded a power forum on website
<freeflying> jsgotangco: wow, not the partners pages
<freeflying> Kamion: scim is one of the goal of BetterCJKSupport
<EricNeon|CNteam> and the core team members must online ervery day 
<Kamion> I notice that there's a separate ubuntu-cn archive; are bugs filed for everything in there so that it can all eventually be merged back?
<freeflying> jsgotangco: we host a wiki with ubuntu-tw and guy from hk for translate
* jsgotangco is reading LinuxWindows page
<raphink> jsgotangco: I like the cartoon on it... about what I can understnad ;)
<freeflying> Kamion: we also have subteam for ubuntu-cn , such docteam websiteteam tecjnicalteam
<jsgotangco> the forum has 6000 members
<jsgotangco> with more than 53,000 posts
<G0SUB> raphink http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm
<spacey> its bigger then ubuntuforums? :P
<jsgotangco> it just grew up on it own and became sustainable
<Seveas> spacey, no 
<spacey> ok, just checking :)
<raphink> thanks G0SUB
<G0SUB> raphink :)
* jsgotangco looks at the site stats page
<spacey> i will definitely convert my chinese friends to ubuntu now :P
<jsgotangco> 16,000 unique visits this march alone
<freeflying> spacey: nice 
<raphink> spacey: same here :)
<Seveas> ubuntu-cn gets a big \o/ from me
<EricNeon|CNteam> Kamion: we are happy to seen Chinese TW/CN/HK team will merge to one as one year ago,we will resole same problems 
<Seveas> nice work as far as I can see
<jsgotangco> their alexa rankings is increasing
<jsgotangco> -s
<Kamion> EricNeon|CNteam: that's certainly good news
<EricNeon|CNteam> so we want build a ubuntu east develper center
<jsgotangco> who sponsors your site?
<EricNeon|CNteam> china and korea and japan~
<freeflying> jsgotangco: ourself
<Kamion> ok, after following up a bunch of links I'm reasonably happy that there's enough activity and organisation to make the Chinese team official (shame it's just me rather than other CC members as well though)
<Kamion> can you coordinate with smurf on any general locoteam organisation issues you have?
<Seveas> freeflying, congrats!
<Seveas> keep up the good work
<EricNeon|CNteam> we have not got any sponsor yet
<freeflying> Seveas: thx
<spacey> looks good indeed:)
<Kamion> also, is there anything you need from the main Ubuntu organisation?
<raphink> great :)
<jsgotangco> i think the amout of traffic they generate they need to have a dedicated server
<Kamion> other than "all CJK bugs fixed" ;-)
<freeflying> Kamion: we need more support like server for ubuntu stuff
<Kamion> we don't sponsor hardware for other localisation teams, so I'm not sure that's something that can happen
<Kamion> we => Canonical
<smurf> Indian+Chinese teams look good to me too -- sorry for not participating, I'm @work
<G0SUB> smurf thanks :)
<freeflying> Kamion: and the speend to ubuntu.com is also a problem for us 
<Kamion> though obviously that's up to people other than me
<G0SUB> smurf I have already mailed you ...
<smurf> we have server space for European locos etc. if they need them
<svaksha> thanks :)
<EricNeon|CNteam> smurf: thank you !
<Kamion> freeflying: I see that there's a cn.archive.ubuntu.com DNS alias; is it not working well?
<Kamion> smurf: thanks for helping out there
<freeflying> smurf: Kamion Our mirror often give errors like md5sun errors, due to the poor network condition 
<EricNeon|CNteam> Kamion:because of government
<Kamion> freeflying: that sounds like something that can be solved technically
<jsgotangco> id say its the filtering
<EricNeon|CNteam> or another things
<freeflying> Kamion: anyway , thx 
<Kamion> freeflying: could you arrange for the mirror admin to be put in touch with Znarl (Karl Tilbury), who deals with mirror admin at Canonical?
<freeflying> Kamion: ok
<Kamion> EricNeon|CNteam: the Chinese firewall is famous ;-)
<G0SUB> hehe
<spacey> Great Firewall
<jsgotangco> heh
<freeflying> Kamion: wow , you all know this issue
<jsgotangco> yeah
<flint> EricNeon|CNteam, please feel free to contact me if I can be of any service in regards to networking issues (flint@flint.com)
<freeflying> jsgotangco: thx a lot
<Kamion> it comes up in the tech news every so often, yeah
* jsgotangco experienced the great firewall on a recenty trip to beijing
<raphink> the only firewall that can be seen from the moon
<EricNeon|CNteam> flint:oh , I will ! thx a lot!
<jsgotangco> freeflying, EricNeon|CNteam congrats
<flint> EricNeon|CNteam, you are most welcome my friend.  
<Kamion> ok, all sounds good - thanks for showing up, and apologies for the somewhat long discussion
<Kamion> with my ftpmaster hat on, I'll have a look over the pending scim promotions to main
<jsgotangco> cheers
<freeflying> Kamion: thx ,and waiting for good news from you
<Seveas> Kamion, maybe you could try and poke mako/elmo again now that we arrived at member candidates?
<Kamion> sure, worth a try, bear with me a moment
<freeflying> smurf: hi
<Kamion> got elmo on the phone, he'll be here shortly
<Seveas> cool
<G0SUB> awesome
<spacey> yay:)
<freeflying> smurf: may we have the domainname www.kubuntu-cn.org
<EricNeon|CNteam> :-)
<MarioMeyer> freeflying, that you may ask to Riddell 
<Kamion> aha, and got mako too
<Kamion> we will have quorum shortly
<jsgotangco> coooll
<G0SUB> great!
* Seveas hugs Kamion 
<ompaul> kewl
<freeflying> MarioMeyer: really ?
<jsgotangco> this will be a long meeting
<jsgotangco> heh
<Seveas> jsgotangco, that sometimes happens
<jsgotangco> yeah
<Kamion> in the break before they get here, Hobbsee asked if she could be considered as an #ubuntu operator
<spacey> good thing i make my own schedule
<MarioMeyer> yup.. we got kubuntu-br.org a month ago or so..
<Kamion> Does anyone have an opinion?
<freeflying> MarioMeyer: then ask ogra for www.edubuntu-cn.org ?
<ompaul> +1
<smurf> freeflying: I can give you the data for the regsitration, but I'm not going to register 100+ kubuntu domains in addition to the ubuntu-XX:org ones
<Seveas> -0
<MarioMeyer> freeflying, prolly
<Seveas> don't know her too well but no objection
<ompaul> Seveas, what I have seen impresses me
<Hobbsee> to give some background, i'm already an op in #kubuntu, #ubuntu+1, and #kubuntu-offtopic, and i'm also in australia.
<Kamion> hi elmo
<Seveas> ompaul, that's good enough for me
<Hobbsee> i'm also usually connected to #ubuntu as well :)
<Seveas> I never visit the #kubuntu channels 
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Seveas> Hobbsee, what's your timezone?
* raphink would like to be op on #kubuntu, too :)
<ogra> mako !
<mako> greetings
<Kamion> I have no objection to Hobbsee as an op. With rob as well, how does this leave our timezone coverage?
<ompaul> mako, morning
<EricNeon|CNteam> hi mako~
<jsgotangco> mako!
<flint> hey mako.
<spacey> hi
<Kamion> QUORATE
<Seveas> raphink, poke riddell, the CC handles only #ubuntu
<Hobbsee> Seveas: ah...AEST - it's 12am wed here now
<mako> apolgoies for being late
<raphink> Seveas: ok
<Seveas> Hobbsee, ok, +1 from me for location
<Kamion> elmo, mako: have gone through the IRC op request on the agenda, dealing with a secondary request from that now; have also checked over and approved Indian and Chinese locoteams
<elmo> Kamion: cool, thanks
<EricNeon|CNteam> wow, all of  idol are all coming~
<Kamion> mako: I know it's early for you
<raphink> ah hi mako:)
<Seveas> Kamion, timezone coverage improves a lot
<juliux> hi all
<Seveas> basically they're the 'missing link'
<Kamion> Seveas: is Asia covered?
<G0SUB> Kamion not yet in my opinion ...
<jsgotangco> yep
<G0SUB> India I mean
<Seveas> if we add Hobbsee too: yes
<Seveas> G0SUB, timezone coverage, not country coverage
<G0SUB> hmm
<jsgotangco> australia != asia
<Kamion> G0SUB: well, I mean are there operators around when Indians tend to be online
<freeflying> Kamion: as for  asia , I can 
<jsgotangco> unless someone is from perth here
<EricNeon|CNteam> Kamion:yes we can!
<Kamion> ok, so please add Hobbsee as an op, and we'll see how timezone coverage works out
<jsgotangco> we can vouch for the +7,+8+9 timezones
<Kamion> if there's still a problem for Asian folks, we can add somebody from an appropriate timezone
<Seveas> -ChanServ- [Hobbsee]  has been added to the access list for #ubuntu with level [10] 
<Hobbsee> excellent :D
<Kamion> let's move on to member candidates
<Seveas> allee, you there?
<Hobbsee> yep, that works
<freeflying> Kamion: we are UTC +8
<allee> Seveas: yes
<mako> actually
<mako> Kamion: before we do
<mako> there's one thing i wanted to bring up
<Kamion> sure
<mako> we can phrase this as a general question
<mako> but i've been approached by people who are wondering if contributions to launchpad count as contributions to the ubuntu community
<mako> in the course of work for canonical or not
<mako> cleary, contributions to support of ubuntu users and ubuntu conferences counts
<mako> but does launchpad development count towards membership
<Kamion> the only time it's come up really to date has been when Daniel Silverstone was up for membership
<mako> we don't need to answer this right now unless y'all have strong feelings
<Kamion> but in his case we were also familiar with his work on Debian
<Seveas> Work on Debian generally is seen as a contribution to Ubuntu - I think it's no more than reasonable to follow the same reasoning for work on launchpad as launchpad is a direct support of Ubuntu
* mako nods to Kamion 
<mako> Seveas: well, they are a little different
<jsgotangco> but lp isnt ubuntu-centric
<Seveas> jsgotangco, neither is Debian ;)
<G0SUB> heh :)
<ogra> jsgotangco, its our core infrastructure 
<mako> because work on debian also leads to a strong confidence in someone's ability to the do the same tasks, truthworthiness, etc
<mako> which lp does too to a degree
<mako> in any case, we don't need to answer this now
<mako> unless people have very strong feelngs either way
<Kamion> I think I'd like to abstain from that question :-)
<Seveas> let's think about it and come back to it next time, I'll put it on the agenda
<mako> it would be good to know that now
<jsgotangco> good point to ponder though
<flint> debian, ubuntu and launchpad are "hacks" of each other... this is about hacking eh
<mako> Seveas: that's fine.. but then we'll make it our homework
<Seveas> mako, voluntary homework
<mako> well, we should think about it
<Seveas> I for one need more time to think about it - couldn't give a complete answer right now
<mako> i understand
<mako> i'm bringing it up because i'm of multiple minds
<Seveas> mako, they have medication to cure that
* mako looks crazy at Seveas 
<mako> alright
<Seveas> anyway, shall we move on to membership candidates?
<mako> that sounds fine
<Seveas> ok, allee, please give us the 3-liner
<allee> I'm a sysadmin running Kubuntu on Laptops and Desktops since Hoary. With dapper, server and cluster will follow. For the curious, a bit of background can be found at [WWW]  http://www.kde.nl/people/debian.html
<allee> I'm a member of the [WWW]  Kubuntu Team. Helping others in creating/maintain packages, maintaining packages myself or helping whereever I can help
<allee> Future Plans: Working more on enhancement and integration of pkgs. e.g. media support, usability, and consistency. Easier setup of networks, in general, everything that helps using Kubuntu on laptop easier. At least keeping an eye on MOTU/Teams/Science, getting involved if time permits. 
<allee> done
<raphink> allee is a great help on Kubuntu
<Seveas> one \o/ from me for routing the packages via Debian
<Tonio_> and or sure one of the most helpfull personn for MOTUs
<raphink> :)
<Tonio_> he did so much to help me when Ihad problems
<allee> Seveas: and with an quick sponsor it even much fun :)
* Hobbsee agrees with raphink, allee's definetly a great help in regards to kubuntu
<raphink> allee: hehe lucky you :)
<freeflying> wow allee is not a member ? he should be 
<Seveas> freeflying, if the CC agrees with you he'll be a member in a few minutes
<Tonio_> freeflying: incredible, but he still isn't
* allee blushes
<Seveas> ompaul, f1x0r your wikipage quick - it has a big edit conflict
<ompaul> k
<freeflying> Seveas:  he really shuld be 
<Seveas> freeflying, I agree, but Kamion, mako and elmo decide 
<raphink> :)
<Kamion> I'm fine with Achim
<Seveas> (on a side note: I like that he takes the correct route to membership: first make sure you contributr an awful lot so the CC does not have to think too long)
<Kamion> work looks pretty good to me
<ompaul> Seveas: done 
* mako nods.. looks good
<elmo> ack
<Seveas> cool! allee welcome on board!
<G0SUB> allee congrats!
<raphink> yeah :)
<phanatic> congrats allee
<EricNeon|CNteam> yeah
<raphink> welcome allee
<freeflying> allee: congrates
<allee> Thx all!
<EricNeon|CNteam> welcome
<Seveas> let's move on quickly as time keeps ticking - dolson there?
<Tonio_> congrats allee
<ogra> congratsd allee 
<dolson> Seveas: hi
<ogra> dolson, !! 
<Seveas> dolson, your 3-liner please
<MarioMeyer> congrats allee 
* ogra cheers for the audio freak 
<dolson> First, sorry this is long. I'm long-winded, and this is only 15% of what I had originally.
<dolson> I'm a musician, and that drives 95% or more of my contributions. So far, I had only used Audacity to record, but wanted to expand to use JACK, and looked into Ardour. I discovered something appauling on their website: "Warning: [...]  Ubuntu and Debian distributions are not recommended [...]  they tend to cause many problems [...]  for users aimed at using applications like ardour."
<dolson> My long-term goal is to rectify this, and help make Ubuntu a recommended audio distro. My short-term goal is to work toward my long-term goal, a package at a time. My wiki (ubuntustudio.com) will fill any gaps with HOW-TOs in the meantime. Dapper has improved in performance, configuration, and has some new apps. A step up from Breezy, and I'm excited for the future.
<Seveas> (and please keep that ferret away from me :p)
<dolson> This came out of an email I sent Mark, requesting Ubuntu support musicians. He heard me and put me in touch with some of his team. They gave me info that I ignored until one day, early February. I decided to try packaging. I read the info Daniel sent, and got started. I packaged some new apps and a few patches from Malone. Thanks to the MOTU team, most of these are in Dapper. It can be frustrating dealing with a newbie like me, but 
<dolson> they have been only helpful and understanding.
<dolson> To sum up, I have to say: this is my distro. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
<raphink> dolson has been uploading a whole lot of packages for the ubuntustudio project on REVU lately
<raphink> and fixing them fast when required
<ogra> yeah
<siretart> I've reviewed some of them. I'm happy with dolsons work so far!
<raphink> he's been active in the MOTU 
<jsgotangco> i'm more convinced with his pics than his contributions
<jsgotangco> :)
<jsgotangco> joke
* ogra is regulary looking on the ubuntustudio page for edubuntu candidates for audio editing :)
<Seveas> Audio on Ubuntu/linu in general needs to go some big leaps ahead - if dolson can help with that it'd be great
<ogra> yeah, the picture is *very* convincing 
<Seveas> Feb 10. however is only a month ago
<dolson> that's when I started packaging, yes
<jsgotangco> as well as the affair with warez
<Kamion> I've done a huge pile of NEW processing on stuff that dolson's uploaded, and it all looks good to me
<dolson> I've been on the forums for over a year, IIRC
<ogra> Seveas, ubuntustudio is older and there were discussions on the mailing lists log ago about it already
<Kamion> I'm happy with dolson for membership despite the relatively short timescale
* ogra remembers dolson 
<jsgotangco> yeah
<Seveas> ok, 1 down
<dolson> It was suggested that I become a MOTU, so this is the first step towards that
<jsgotangco> dolson, do you own ubuntustudio.com?
<dolson> jsgotangco: I do
<jsgotangco> that figures
<dolson> about 98% of the work on it I did
* jsgotangco loved the site
<mako> the work looks great but 1mon seems a bit short
<ogra> its way longer than a month
<jsgotangco> im pretty much familiar with the nick too
<Seveas> ogra, but that's not documented on his wikipage
<ogra> (that he is involved inn ubuntu)
<raphink> mako: well it's one month packaging for MOTU, but the work was longer
<siretart> his work as packager is one month. his work as ubuntu contributor is longer
<jsgotangco> well
<mako> ah, ok
<mako> sure then
<dolson> I've also promoted Ubuntu on a case-by-case basis, and converted at least one person, if that counts for anything
<ogra> Seveas, dig the ubuntu-devel and ubuntu-users archive ;)
<Seveas> ogra, I take your word for it
<elmo> ack from me too
<mako> that sounds fine
<mako> i'm happy with membership
<raphink> dolson: wow! converted one person! ;)
<raphink> hehe
<Seveas> ok, 3 down, welcome aboard dolson!
<raphink> dolson: I think ubuntustudio counts more ;)
<G0SUB> dolson welcome!!
<raphink> welcome dana
<phanatic> congrats dolson
<Seveas> phanatic, poke
<mako> yeah, the other work are still significant contributions
<dolson> thanks guys 
<Tonio_> congrats dolson
<phanatic> Seveas: my intro comes then...
<ogra> yay dolson 
<Seveas> (I may have to leave without notice RSN - will be back in less than 5 minutes after that)
<freeflying> dolson: congrates
<dolson> :)
<phanatic> I'm a university student from Budapest, Hungary. I administer an Ubuntu server at the university in my hometown. I installed my first Linux back in 99-00. After trying several distros I chose Debian, but since Hoary I use Ubuntu.
<phanatic> My contribution to Ubuntu involves: organizing the Hungarian Community (launched the site ubuntu.hu, localization), spreading the word in the country (I presented Ubuntu in the TV and radio as well), doing some packaging for MOTU (currently maintainer of 4 pkgs).
<phanatic> In the future I'd like to join the MOTU team to help their work, and I'd also like to continue my local community activity to spread free softwares, and Ubuntu of course :)
<elmo> dolson: have you been in touch with anyone yet about trademarks?
<phanatic> See my wiki page for more details on my work: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SzilveszterFarkas
<dolson> elmo: no
* siretart has to leave now as well, sry
<Kamion> hooray, a perl hacker
<jsgotangco> TV and radio!
<ogra> Kamion, this might change 
<phanatic> siretart: i'm sorry to hear that :(
<raphink> phanatic has been quite active in MOTU aswell
<elmo> dolson: you probably should at some stage; I can't imagine it'll be a problem
<ogra> Kamion, i was one as well before i met you guys
<siretart> phanatic has been active in #ubuntu-motu, learning and helping other motu hopefuls
<siretart> I'm happy with his work so far
<phanatic> Kamion: :)
<ogra> siretart++
<raphink> some of phantic's packages are in universe already and he's been helping with bugs too
<Kamion> how's the Hungarian team coming along?
<dolson> elmo: who should I contact? I assume it's because I used "ubuntu" in my domain/site name? you can /msg if you wish
<phanatic> Kamion: there are only a few active members (about 5-6), who contribute to docs, but a lot more are active on our forums (about 100)
<phanatic> ubuntu has the 2. biggest community in hungary (after debian)
<phanatic> but the debian people are getting converted to ubuntu :)
<Kamion> well, I'm happy, seems to be a fair history of significant contributions
<raphink> :)
<Kamion> again I've seen some of phanatic's packages in NEW and not had huge problems with them
* mako finishes looking
<mako> the contributions looks significant and over a decent period of time
<mako> i'm happy with membership
* Seveas back
<elmo> me too
<ogra> applause 
<G0SUB> phanatic congrats!
<jsgotangco> \o/
<phanatic> thanks for you guys :)
<mako> you did the work
<raphink> congratulations phanatic! welcome aboard :)
<mako> :)
<Seveas> spacey, poke
<freeflying> phanatic: congrates
<ogra> spacey, !!
<spacey> hi
<spacey> unfortunately my gedit just crashed with my 3 lines :P
<spacey> anyway
<spacey> I'm Herman Bos
<G0SUB> spacey file a bug
<Tonio_> welcome phanatic, congrats ;) ^^
<spacey> my wiki page is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HermanBos
<spacey> My activities are quite widespread although most of my activity is with edubuntu
<spacey> also part of the ubuntu dutch team
<spacey> working on a project to convert a school to edubuntu
<spacey> around 50 clients
<ogra> yeah, spacey is one of the most active members of edubuntu
<jsgotangco> ++
<spacey> i have some pending work
<Seveas> spacey is one of the earliest members of ubuntu-nl
<ogra> he helps in a lot of areas 
<Seveas> oct/nov 2004 iirc
<flint>  yes spacey is most active...
<spacey> with getting end user edubuntu feedback to edubuntu
<ogra> he also attended all the edubuntu related BOFs at UBZ :)
<spacey> I just love Edubuntu/Ubuntu, its just my style:)
<spacey> future is more schools to edubuntu
<spacey> :)
<spacey> more documentation
<ogra> yay!
<ogra> JaneW might probably also speak up :) 
<Kamion> allee: please apply to join the ubuntumembers team in launchpad (https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntumembers/+join)
<spacey> :)
<mako> i like the ubuntu blog
<Seveas> mako, he's on planet Ubuntu-nl 
* Kamion reads ContentInternetFiltering/Willow
<Kamion> "Personally I couldnt find any porn website which slipped through the filter."
<spacey> http://users.lichtsnel.nl/~spacey/ for the rest :)
<Kamion> spacey: sometimes jobs just really suck, eh? :-)
<ogra> hehe
<spacey> Kamion: hehe :)
<mako> is that a challenge?
<Kamion> anyway, I'm fine with spacey for membership, seem to be good Edubuntu contributions there
* mako nods to kamion
<Kamion> and I think I remember meeting you at UBZ too
<ogra> lots of :)
<Kamion> (though there were a *lot* of people there ...)
<Seveas> 2 down, one to go
<mako> speaking of one to go.. i have about 15 minutes
<spacey> http://users.lichtsnel.nl/~spacey/plaatjes/hackergotchi/spacey-gotchi3-noshadow.png
<flint> Kamion, regarding Nick Wheeler (Spec), I can speak for him in nomination.
<Seveas> flint, we usually don't do that
<Seveas> he can just apply next time
<flint> Seveas, just offering.
<flint> Seveas, then I have to get up early on Tuesday and Wednesday and screw up my schedule! :^)
<Kamion> we do sometimes
<mako> flint: not early
<mako> flint: late afternoon next time
<mako> and we do sometimes
<ogra> elmo, opinions about spacey ? 
<jsgotangco> i give my support for spacey as well
<mako> is alwaysa a bit spacey himself these early morning meeings
<spacey> :>
<jsgotangco> (need to go wife calls for late night dinner)
<spacey> mako: you looked spacey at wth as well ;p
<Kamion> several of the Edubuntu people I know have been pretty keen on Nicholas
<elmo> ack
<G0SUB> spacey congrats!
<Seveas> spacey, welcome!
<spacey> yay :)
<mako> spacey: i'd been on the road for 6 weeks :)
<spacey> \o/
<ogra> yay spacey !!!!
* spacey opens a bottle of wine
<raphink> :)
<flint> That said, it is Town Meeting day here in Vermont and I need to go and govern.
<flint>  :^)
<jsgotangco> i dunno nicholas but that's just me (as a regular edubuntu lurker)
<flint> sksk
<Kamion> jsgotangco: not a familiar face?
<Seveas> I really prefer to postpone (flint has gone too, mako has to go soon)
<Kamion> ok, let's leave Spec to next time
<jsgotangco> nope
<Seveas> there are two more candidates present
<Kamion> Baishampayan Ghose
<Seveas> G0SUB, you're up
<G0SUB> okay, my few lines
<G0SUB> Hello I am Baishampayan Ghose from India. I am an upcoming Debian /
<G0SUB> Ubuntu developer. I have two packages in Debian main which will come to
<G0SUB> Ubuntu in Dapper+1. I am also a Translator and I am the maintainer of
<G0SUB> Debian Graphical Installer Bengali translations. For Ubuntu I have
<G0SUB> cleaned up and written patches for MOTU-Reviewers and those were
<G0SUB> uploaded by jpatrick. I am a member of the Ubuntu Bengali Translators
<G0SUB> team as well as the Indian LoCo Team. I am also a member of the New User
<G0SUB> Network. I have done some translations on Rosetta. I have recently
<G0SUB> joined the MOTU-Science team for which I intend to do a lot in future. I
<G0SUB> have contributed to a couple of wikis, my most major contribution is in
<G0SUB> being the co-author of the JhbuildOnUbuntu wiki which is hosted in
<G0SUB> live.gnome.org. I also do a lot of advocacy and I distribute Ubuntu CDs
<G0SUB> in all the FOSS events I visit. I am also a board member of the Free
<G0SUB> Software Foundation of India.
<Kamion> Jordan Mantha says:
<G0SUB> https://launchpad.net/people/g0sub
<G0SUB> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BaishampayanGhose
<jsgotangco> lol that's a lot of lines
<G0SUB> jsgotangco heh
<Kamion> Baishampayan Ghose has been hanging out around #ubuntu-motu for a week or two. He seems very interested in packaging and shows quite a bit of promise in that area. His work with the Indian LoCo team will be useful for Dapper+1.
<Kamion> G0SUB: FWIW it's easier on us if you try to pack it into fewer but longer lines
<Kamion> anyhow
<G0SUB> jpatrick isn't here ... he could have voted for me too ...
<G0SUB> Kamion Emacs ...
<Kamion> G0SUB: the line I just pasted I did by hand - never blame your tools
<raphink> G0SUB: jpatrick couldn't have voted, but he could have testified
<G0SUB> raphink I am sorry , that's what I mean
<raphink> :)
<Kamion> G0SUB: only two of the eight bugs you list under "Bugs Fixed" on your wiki page actually have any contributions from you recorded in the bug log
<G0SUB> Kamion that's an issue ... actually I gave the patches directly to jpatrick and he uploaded them ... my name's there in the changelog
<Kamion> ok, fair enough
<Kamion> it is worth being clear about that sort of thing
* mako nods
<G0SUB> yes
<mako> G0SUB: is the indian team active?
<G0SUB> mako yes! very much ... we got official approval today
<mako> ah.. i missed the first 5-10 minutes of the meeting
<mako> my apologies
<Kamion> mako: make that an hour and 5-10 minutes
<ogra> heh
<dolson> haha
<MarioMeyer> lol
<G0SUB> heh
<Seveas> rofl
<mako> oh man
<Kamion> ok, "a week or two" is a bit short to consider the MOTU work I think, but the translation work has clearly been going on for longer
<G0SUB> yes
<Seveas> but not yet the infinite translator karma of death ;)
<Seveas> (solid contribution though)
<Kamion> I have this here debian-installer/packages/po/bn.po with G0SUB's name all over it
<G0SUB> heh
<ogra> sounds like a valuable contribution to me 
<Kamion> so I'm happy
<mako> yes, the translation work looks good
<G0SUB> I intend to do a lot of merges when dapper+1 is out ... 
<Seveas> good plan
<ogra> yeah
<Seveas> the motu will welcome you
<mako> and IIRC, i've been in contact with G0SUB some time before
<G0SUB> mako exactly ... good to see you remember
<G0SUB> mako the 200 CDs I ordered
<G0SUB> and the works
<gora> If it matters, G0SUB has been the big push behind the Ubuntu Indian LoCo team.
<Seveas> gora, it matters 
<Seveas> good locoteams are very valuable
<elmo> ack
<Seveas> ok, almost there, only mako needs to be convinced ;)
<mako> i'm convinced
<gora> Seveas: Yeah, I meant as in you all don't know me anyways, so does *my* opinion matter :-)
<Seveas> well, in that case
<Seveas> welcome aboard G0SUB !
<MarioMeyer> congrats G0SUB 
<G0SUB> thanks a lot guys! you have been awesome !
<Seveas> last one on the agenda: the evil irishman
<gora> G0SUB: congrats.
<Seveas> ompaul, ping
<licio> G0SUB, welcome.. congrats :-)
<Kamion> G0SUB: please apply to join the ubuntumembers team in launchpad (https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntumembers/+join)
<G0SUB> :)
<ompaul> three line
<G0SUB> Kamion okay
<ompaul> this is as short as I can do it,  Active on Sounder, IRC, and reading some other mailing lists, contribute in whereever I can. In 2005 I gave away in the region of 600 CDs 300 from Canonical the rest I organised the Lug to get them out there. Events that we did this at were : http://www.ictexpo.ie April 2005 ; http://www.ifso.ie a Free Software event on the 18th November which lead to me giving a box to the CS in Trinity College in Dublin and I sup
<ompaul> plied that event. ; http://homepage.eircom.net/~kogrange/ys_computer_2006.html (get them young :-)) In general targeting people that may move over, also provide support to a few machines in the locality where I live. Generally I just love the stuff. Where do I want Ubuntu, everywhere. http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PaulOmalley
<ompaul> ohh and with some guy called seveas set up #ubuntu+1 to move the dapper and future dev based queries out of #ubuntu
* ogra remebers ompaul being around since quite some time
<Seveas> ompaul, is quite active on irc (#ubuntu, #ubuntu+1, #ubuntu-offtopic at least) and very helpful when it comes to support
<ompaul> thanks
<Seveas> he's also op in #ubuntu and #ubuntu+1
<Seveas> (#ubuntu-offtopic soon if bob2 returns)
<mako> i'm happy with ompaul for support and community activity and solid irc contributions
<ompaul> thanks
* gnomefreak agrees with Seveas ompaul is a valueable member in #ubuntu and #ubuntu+1
<Seveas> (and the countless hours of talk also count as good support)
* G0SUB has seen ompaul being active since a long time
<mako> alright.. i really need to run
<ompaul> mako, is that a yes?
<Seveas> bye! 
<Seveas> ompaul, it is
<mako> yes, it's a yes
<ompaul> cheers
<mako> ompaul: i'd like to chat with you about gnubuntu stuff anyway.. i'll msgs you in a few hours
<Bonzodog> ompaul: congrats from a fellow ubunyu user in Ireland
<ompaul> mako, cool, 
<Seveas> Bonzodog, 2 more CC members need convincing
<ogra> Bonzodog, still missing 2
<Seveas> he's not theere yet
* ompaul has a long way to go
<mako> Seveas: can you send me the full log
<Bonzodog> ah..
<mako> ?
<Seveas> mako, yes
<mako> Seveas: thanks!
<Seveas> tonight-ish
<mako> apologize for being much later than i thought iw as
<Seveas> (I'm actually at work)
<mako> :)
* mako is off
<ogra> so we're waiting for Kamion and elmo ....
<ogra> ah
<Kamion> that school project looks like some fine work
<Seveas> that school project is indeed impressive
<Kamion> sorry, my router threw a wobbly there
<Bonzodog> We could do with an Irish member
<ompaul> Kamion_, it was a couple of days - I walked in and the kids had used the net and sitting on the whiteboard was Linux Is Cool
<Bonzodog> the ubuntu-ie team is very small
<ompaul> well Bonzodog I was there when it started but never saw it take off, talk with me later
<Kamion> ompaul: heh, nice
<Kamion> Bonzodog: I'm from Belfast, although don't live there any more
<Seveas> \o/mpaul
* Bonzodog lives in Galway
<Kamion> anyway, I'm happy with Paul based on some pretty stonking advocacy work
<Seveas> stonking?
<ompaul> thanks Kamion 
<ompaul> Seveas, its +++
<Kamion> did mako or elmo comment while I was out?
<Kamion> Seveas: "very good"
<Seveas> ah, thnks
<Seveas> make acked
<Seveas> mako*
<Seveas> elmo has not yet commented
<elmo> ack
<Seveas> ok, he has
<Seveas> congratz ompaul !
<ompaul> thanks folks
<Seveas> Go Irish, beat orangemen!
<G0SUB> ompaul you rock!
<Kamion> ompaul: BTW dapper should be better WRT building images without restricted on them and having them actually work
<Bonzodog> congrats ompaul....
<Kamion> I tweaked base-installer a bit recently
<G0SUB> btw, I support Ted Walther in that we really need to put up a statue of elmo on the grounds of Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute!
<ogra> yay ompaul 
<ompaul> Kamion, thanks 
<^Odd^> ~~~~~~~~Congrats ompaul~~~~~~~~~~~
<^Odd^> ^_^
<Kamion> and I think we're done
<Seveas> Any other business anyone?
<Kamion> Any other business?
<ompaul> Kamion, I'll have mako beat sense into me :)
* Seveas hands mako ubotu's the ultra-lart-o-matic
<Kamion> oh, one sec, I have something
<ompaul> Seveas, no that would not humane
<Kamion> Adam Conrad's on the proposed members list and is already in ubuntu-core-dev; I assume nobody minds if I just add him?
<ogra> heh
<Seveas> rofl 
<ogra> will he stop the buildds if you dont ?
<Kamion> (or if I apply this policy to ubuntu-core-dev members in general)
<ogra> so better do it :)
<Seveas> Kamion, I see that as 'backlog' 
<Seveas> should simply be added
<ogra> Kamion++
<Kamion> done
<Seveas> there's no doubt about their contributions
<Seveas> ok, anyone else?
<Seveas> going once
<Seveas> going twice
<Seveas> SOLD! meeting over 
<G0SUB> Seveas whom do I contact for cloaks?
<Seveas> G0SUB, me
<Seveas> consider it done
<Kamion> I believe I've approved all the new members in launchpad, with the exception of allee who hasn't hit +join yet
<G0SUB> Seveas can I get a cloak?
<Kamion> let me know if I've forgotten anyone
<Seveas> G0SUB, sure - next time I speak to freenode staff
<ompaul> Kamion, going to www.belfoss.org?
<G0SUB> Seveas thanks!
<Bonzodog> there is an Irish Team channel at #ubuntu-ie
<Kamion> ompaul: unlikely :( I haven't been back to Belfast for about six or seven years
<G0SUB> Seveas and @ubuntu.com ?
<Seveas> thanks for attending everyone - Kamion please poke elmo/mako/sabdfl about a suitable time for next meeting, I really would like to see sabdfl at one of these meetings again
<Bonzodog> but I don't know if there is an Irish Tem on lauchpad
<Seveas> G0SUB, that'll be handle automanually - just wait a few days/weeks
<Kamion> Seveas: yeah, sabdfl apologised for not having made a meeting of late due to his Asia tour - we'll try to sort something out
<Seveas> Kamion, great
<G0SUB> Seveas okay, thanks!
* MarioMeyer has to run.. cyall..
<Seveas> I'm going to do something work related before I get caught
<Seveas> bye all
<G0SUB> see you
<ompaul> cheers
<EricNeon|CNteam> bye all, the time is go to sleep
<EricNeon|CNteam> good night~
<ogra> night EricNeon|CNteam 
<EricNeon|CNteam> :-)
<allee> Kamion: I applied a week ago already.  Only the confirmation is pending ;)  lauchpad always says: You are a proposed member of this team. To
<freeflying> allee: needs time for that 
<allee> freeflying: <Kamion> I believe I've approved all the new members in launchpad, with the exception of allee who hasn't hit +join yet
<Kamion> allee: sorry, my fault, you were there as "allee" rather than "Achim Bohnet" so I missed you. Approved now.
<allee> Kamion: np.  Thx!
<jsgotangco> wow and i thought the meeting is still going on heh
<janimo> nomed: Gloubiboulga: let's start
<Gloubiboulga> ok
<nomed> ok
<janimo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DanieleFavara/ProposedAgenda2006-03-07
<janimo> here's the agenda Daniele proposed
<janimo> 1) XfceGoodies
<nomed> there are some new ones ready
<janimo> nice progress this week, if you can keep up the packaging we
<nomed> but i still need to fix little stuff
<janimo> will be finished in two weeks
<janimo> at most
<janimo> nomed, I am waiting for the thumb up sign near the goodies before looking at the,
<janimo> them
<nomed> what's nice is that almost all the ones that were already in breezy are working  again now
<nomed> janimo, yes
<janimo> diskperf was packaged by Gauvain
<janimo> but did not work on my box
<Gloubiboulga> packaged, but doesn't work
<Gloubiboulga> neither on mine in fact
<nomed> yes ..
<janimo> Gloubiboulga: oh, ok
<janimo> goodies upstreams are not too busy since 4.4 is not in sight
<janimo> we may have to ping them, report bugs 
<Gloubiboulga> yes
<Gloubiboulga> I can send some mails for that
<janimo> I am trying to finish screenshot myself then upload it
<janimo> Gloubiboulga: would be nice
<nomed> xfce4-websearch-plugin <-- this works but it's not possible to resize the text entry
<Gloubiboulga> ok, I'll take care of that
<nomed> janimo, do you know how to fix it ?
<janimo> nomed, you mean the websearch resize?
<nomed> yes
<janimo> or diskperf?
<janimo> I could take a look
<nomed> websearch
<janimo> but I have not used the plugin
<nomed> xmms works nicely
<janimo> if it works and only reszie is borked it's ok to upload
<nomed> ok
<janimo> you shpould just make sure it is packaged ok, and works
<janimo> bugs we'll fix later or have upstream fix them
<nomed> janimo, i'm fixing it
<janimo> ok, ping me whenever they're in the state quicklauncher was.
<nomed> they generate some files as it is reported in debuild log from revu-report
<nomed> k
<janimo> it also spews warning to the panel ocnsole but works
<nomed> xfce4-datetime-plugin <-- should be removed i feel
<janimo> why?
<janimo> I have nothing agaisnt removing just want to know the reaosn
<nomed> it doesn't seem maintained anymore
<nomed> and it's not working
<janimo> good reason enough
<janimo> we have clock in the panel that will do
<nomed> yep
<nomed> anyway we should check all of them when we've pkged all the working ones
<janimo> is websearch the same plugin written by ema from debian xfce?
<janimo> or is that called smt else
<nomed> checking svn logs and sending mails to xfce-devel
<janimo> xfce-goodies more appropriate probably
<janimo> maybe a summary to devel
<nomed> janimo, i don't remeber
<janimo> I cannot post from gmane to gogodies for some reason
<nomed> ohh yes xfce-goodies
<janimo> weather plugin crashes I assume
<nomed> it's working here
<nomed> that version is working
<janimo> ok
<janimo> then let me know whenever any of these is good for upload
<nomed> ok
<janimo> shall we start on 2) archiver
<janimo> ?
<nomed> ok
<nomed> thunar has that plugin
<janimo> yes, but we need to decide on one of the two apps
<nomed> i have still to figure out how it is integrated in thunar :/
<janimo> joys of choice
<nomed> janimo, exactly
<nomed> i asked to both
<nomed> xarchive and xarchiver devel
<janimo> I see they both recomend the other on tehir page
<janimo> but none says one is better
<nomed> who would try to integrate it in thunar
<janimo> smart
<janimo> that plugin calls out to file roller now from what I saw
<nomed> i think xarchiver is better
<janimo> me too, but only from a cursory look
<nomed> janimo, it's faster
<janimo> yes I noticed that
<nomed> and xarchive randomly crasches
<janimo> when you have a clean pkg of xarchiver I'll upload it
<nomed> k
<janimo> then we can look into integrating that plugin
<janimo> I think that will be a patch in thunr no new package to
<janimo> not be stuck in NEW
<nomed> janimo, as benny told it should be patched even the archive manager
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Seveas] :  Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 8 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 9 Mar 08:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 14  Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 16 Mar 20:00 UTC: Kubuntu
<janimo> it's same upstream esentially
<nomed> i think it will affect even the xarchive(r) itself
<nomed> janimo, yes
<nomed> it's just to see better where there are regressions
<janimo> ok
<janimo> then the steps are: pack and upload xarchiver
<janimo> then look at the intercation with the plugin
<janimo> even without the plugin having an archiver is already a win
<nomed> yep
<janimo> and meantime listen to what the two xarch upstreams say 
<nomed> sure
<janimo> 3) look
<nomed> uhuh
<janimo> the wiki page should closely resemble U & K
<janimo> right now is a recursive linkage with not accurate categories
<janimo> let's wait maybe and see how they populate theirs
<nomed> janimo, those links below DapperXubuntuLook
<nomed> are the existing wiki subpage 
<nomed> i try to explain what's my proposal for that stuff
<janimo> well at least the colors and logo entries at the top are confusing
<nomed> that's true
<janimo> and lead to pages which deal with other art stuff
<nomed> janimo, those two page
<janimo> should look exacltly like u&k so their people navigate as easily and know how to compare
<nomed> colors and logo
<janimo> and others too
<nomed> will exist untill we'll not have a page as this one
<nomed> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Official
<nomed> at the moment xubuntu lacks of those infos .. materials
<janimo> right, but they should be on a separate page since this has to resemble the other Look pages
<nomed> janimo, i agree ..
<janimo> and I think we could stick our stuff in the link you mentioned
<nomed> it 's just that now DapperXubuntuLook
<nomed> is on #dapper-look topic
<janimo> we know the logo at least
<nomed> and people will not find anywhere those info
<nomed> and for an artist the palette is fundamental
<janimo> ok, then a discrete link (one) at the bottom would do
<nomed> that's to show we've not an official one 
<nomed> k
<janimo> the colors page should not have link to proposals/workflow and such
<nomed> janimo, ok
<janimo> ok right at the top a link to xubuntuArtwork 
<nomed> i was just trying to collect materials
<janimo> and then they can have a background on what we have so far
<nomed> i need some help on this
<janimo> current artwork pages are a bit disorganized
<janimo> the purpose of the Look page is to 
<janimo> take that data and organize it
<janimo> not link back to it adding to the confusion :)
<nomed> yes ... the problem here is that xubuntu is not sync with kubuntu and ubuntu :/
<nomed> we have the advantage that we can see how they 'll do that stuff
<janimo> sync as in communication with artists?
<nomed> but at the same time we can't organize that much material
<janimo> as they fill the look page, we put our xubuntu equivalent there nothing more
<janimo> we can already put a logo
<janimo> a link to the running mouse for splash
<nomed> janimo, yep
<janimo> teh usplash and gdm theme
<janimo> what we have now
<nomed> the problem here is that an artist needs a color palette
<janimo> then if we chaneg those update the look page
<nomed> and svg images
<janimo> just so everybidy know our current status
<nomed> i feel an artist get lost without such stuff
<janimo> well, with the color palette I don;t know what we should do
<nomed> janimo, we need one
<nomed> that's the first step
<janimo> true, I'd let Jozef Mak or someone else who is an artist chose the palette
<janimo> I cannot do it :)
<nomed> janimo, a guy from tango people
<janimo> ok
<nomed> is playing with xfce icons
<janimo> but if we put what we have now in xubuntu there
<janimo> people notice
<janimo> and may say that sucks, and help us make it look better
<nomed> janimo, i showed him all the material we have
<nomed> :)
<nomed> i hope during this week we'll see some progress
<janimo> let's have it there on Look so that people at the UI sprint at least know we exist :)
<nomed> DapperXubuntuLook is even in #dapper-look topic
<janimo> I saw that
<nomed> i think that should help very much
<janimo> that's why it has to be short and to the point
<janimo> with a link back to xubu artwork
<janimo> but not a replica of all that stuff
<nomed> k
<janimo> for instance that 3D studio max style usplash needs to go :)
<nomed> janimo, i try to explain my idea
<nomed> ehehe
<nomed> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperUbuntuIcons?action=show&redirect=DapperIcons
<nomed> take a look here
<janimo> I saw that
<nomed> ok
<nomed> scroll the page
<janimo> but we do not really have a use for most of those as I said on the list
<janimo> trash, network, printer etc
<nomed> ubuntu will use a modified tango icon theme
<janimo> openoffice
<nomed> xubuntu can inherit from it
<janimo> sure
<janimo> once they settle
<janimo> it is still preliminary from what I hear
<nomed> and that guy is adding missing icons for xfce
<janimo> at least we agree that the original mouse in wheel is _the_ logo
<janimo> great
<nomed> so xubuntu-icon-theme
<nomed> will be a small pkge
<nomed> with missing icons
<janimo> we may just put it in xfce-icon-theme to not have yet another pkg
<nomed> and inheriting from ubuntu-icon-theme
<nomed> this will be the xubuntu-icon-theme in this way
<nomed> XubuntuHuman --> Human --> Hicolor
<janimo> ok
<nomed> same for gdm
<nomed> once we'll have a palette
<nomed> it'll be just needed to modify the colors
<nomed> and same for all the rest
<nomed> this is my idea
<janimo> yes
<nomed> that's why i think palette is high priority 
<janimo> I think best would be to find someone actually responsible to lead the xubuntu art effort
<janimo> I cannot do it 
<nomed> janimo, i can do that
<nomed> not working with inkscape 
<nomed> obviosly
<janimo> ok, but please contact at leats someone in art team
<nomed> but orginizing that stuff
<janimo> right
<nomed> janimo, it's what i did
<janimo> thanks :)
<nomed> we're already working on this
<nomed> we have menu-editor icon already :)
<janimo> ok, including people in u-look?
<janimo> great
<nomed> janimo, mainly ...
<nomed> do u agree that we shouldn't use same colors as ubuntu ?
<janimo> yes
<nomed> ok
<janimo> the same palette though as Jozsef suggested thiugh?
<nomed> someone on the list was not fine with this ..
<janimo> right we have to have a distinctive look
<janimo> but don;t know which color is the best
<janimo> choice
<janimo> upstream is struggling too :)
<nomed> that person proposed  aluminium 
<nomed> it reflects the porpose of xubuntu ..
<janimo> not warm enough, but whatever :)
<nomed> from what he told
<janimo> I get used to whatever theme very fast
<nomed> me too
<janimo> is he willing to offer a full xubuntu artwork?
<janimo> from the people on the list I found Jozsefs work the nicest
<nomed> janimo, i can tell you more next week
<janimo> ok
<janimo> it is consistent and encompasses the whole artwork
<nomed> janimo, that guy can help even for icon-naming stuff
<janimo>  then if you take care of this great
<nomed> i do
<janimo> so another meeting in a week ?
<nomed> janimo, yes
<Gloubiboulga> ok
<janimo> until then you do this organization and xarxhiver package and a few goodies?
<nomed> yes
<nomed> what about including within the panel the battery plugin ?
<janimo> Gloubiboulga: you take care of netswicth and contact upstream goodfie authors?
<Gloubiboulga> yep
<janimo> nomed, by default?
<nomed> yes
<janimo> most people do not have batteries
<nomed> we can set xscreensaver on battery low
<janimo> so it would be something to remove for most
<nomed> i've seen it just now
<nomed> ops
<Gloubiboulga> :/
<nomed> Gloubiboulga, heheh i agree
<Gloubiboulga> :D
<Gloubiboulga> I really can't help on the artwork stuff :(
<nomed> Gloubiboulga, i can just help on orginizing it ...
<nomed> i can't make icons
<nomed> that's sure
<nomed> but it's since one mounth i'm playing with xfce4 icons
<nomed> icon naming stuff and so on
<nomed> so i can help with that
<Gloubiboulga> ok ok
<nomed> the problem was that many icons were hardcoded 
<Gloubiboulga> I didn't know that icons can be harcoded
<Gloubiboulga> I know nothing about that
<nomed> Gloubiboulga, it seems the meeting is over :)
<Gloubiboulga> yep, I guess :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-03-05
<Hobbsee> @schedule
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 05 Mar 15:00: Kernel Team | 06 Mar 18:00: Mozilla Team | 06 Mar 20:00: MOTU meeting | 07 Mar 12:00: Edubuntu | 08 Mar 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Mar 10:00: LoCo Team
<Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 06 Mar 02:00: Kernel Team | 07 Mar 05:00: Mozilla Team | 07 Mar 07:00: MOTU meeting | 07 Mar 23:00: Edubuntu | 09 Mar 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Mar 21:00: LoCo Team
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
<daviey> @schedule london
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/London: 05 Mar 15:00: Kernel Team | 06 Mar 18:00: Mozilla Team | 06 Mar 20:00: MOTU meeting | 07 Mar 12:00: Edubuntu | 08 Mar 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Mar 10:00: LoCo Team
<crimsun> @schedule new york
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/New_York: 05 Mar 10:00: Kernel Team | 06 Mar 13:00: Mozilla Team | 06 Mar 15:00: MOTU meeting | 07 Mar 07:00: Edubuntu | 08 Mar 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Mar 06:00: LoCo Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Kernel Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 06 Mar 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team | 06 Mar 20:00 UTC: MOTU meeting | 07 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 08 Mar 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Mar 10:00 UTC: LoCo Team
<BenC> Welcome everyone
<BenC> only person we're missing is Tim, and he should be here any second
<kylem> moo.
<BenC> kylem: Please leave cows outside the channel
<BenC> I leave my in the pastures, you can do the same :)
<BenC> *mine
<kylem> haha.
<BenC> This is going to be short, no set agenda, so we'll be doing an open format
<BenC> core team business first
<BenC> kylem, pkl, rtg: Any issues, concerns, comments, suggestions?
<kylem> BenC, have you seen the paravirt patches on linux-kernel from ingo today to clean up the issues about vdso?
<pkl_> no, making slow progress on the bugs.
<zul> morning
<BenC> I know I still need to do the bug triage wiki :)
<BenC> probably get to that this evening when we get back
<rtg> Suspend to RAM has lots of problems.
<pkl_> not going out in the town then? :-)
<pkl_> in -> on
<BenC> kylem: No, definitely interested in them though
<zul> I might have a copy of i9t
<BenC> pkl_: Only if invited, and only if they pay the tab :)
<BenC> rtg: Yeah, we need to discuss your proposal on kernel-team@l.u.c
<zul> I say disable suspend to ram ;)
<BenC> rtg: I've skimmed your comments, and I think it's probably the right thing, but I need to see about what to do in userspace to enforce it
<BenC> enforce it, and allow it to be enabled easily for those who want to use it
<rtg> zul: I suggested that S2R be marked as experimental.
<BenC> kylem: Want to look at pulling those patches in?
<zul> rtg: ah cool
<rtg> The patches Ben is talking about will help me track down misbehaving drivers with regard to S2R.
<BenC> kylem: Oh, we already forced vdso back on for paravirt
<pkl_> rtg:  The idea is to apply them to our Feisty kernel, and hopefully get them accepted upstream?
<cjwatson> whoa, what's that about disabling suspend to RAM?
<zul> BenC: are we thinking about xen paravirt-ops for feisty?
<pkl_> rtg: Still no response from upstream?
<rtg> pkl: Eventually.
<BenC> zul: Has someone cleaned it up so it doesn't look like someone took a huge dump on the core kernel?
<rtg> pkl: I've had some response, but have yet to propose the patches.
<zul> BenC: I believe so, I havent checked recently. I can look at it this week
<BenC> cjwatson: It's a huge matter of it not working for a lot of people, but this is only a suggestion at this point
<cjwatson> right, but for those people for whom it does work, disabling it isn't so good ...
<cjwatson> (and there are a lot of those too)
<rtg> cjwatson: I'm not proposing that we disable S2R, just mark it as experimental. Its a huge regression  from Edgy.
<BenC> cjwatson: Right, which is why 99% probability it wont even be considered :)
<BenC> cjwatson: We're trying to get things fixed, but we're also looking at alternatives
<cjwatson> given our historical user base, I think it's definitely worthwhile putting resources into fixing it where possible
<rtg> cjwatson: Its all I've been working on for 3 weeks.
<pkl_> Any idea when it broke?
<BenC> cjwatson: mainly there are drivers breaking things, and finding them is hard
<BenC> it's not S2R that is broken, it's drivers and kernel bits that are keeping things from suspending well
<rtg> pkl: The breakages are due to many reasons, not just a single driver.
<BenC> it locks up before the suspend is complete
<pkl_> rtg: but it apparently used to work much better?  Do you know what kernel changes caused the regression?
<rtg> Actually, most platforms suspend OK, it is the resume that has problems.
<cjwatson> can we maybe maintain a blacklist of drivers that are known to break resume and avoid offering suspend if they're there?
<cjwatson> (we only offer it conditionally as it is)
<BenC> cjwatson: That's the problem...finding out which driver is causing it
<cjwatson> ok
<BenC> rtg's laptop produces at least one form of the problem, so he and I will work on bisecting it this week
<rtg> My Dell XPS exhibits problems in core console code. thats a hard one to blacklist.
<BenC> likely we'll start to uncover some similar issues elsewhere after finding one
<rtg> lib_pata has been causing problems as well.
<zul> do we have a list of regressions from edgy?
<BenC> I think we may need to look into the libata-acpi patches
<BenC> zul: launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.20/+bugs :)
<zul> BenC: heh besides that
<BenC> we don't have a concise list, no
<zul> I can start on it.
<BenC> Ok, bugs, bugs, bugs
<BenC> let's work on getting the list of Unconfirmed bugs way down
<BenC> as soon as I get the wiki page done, I'll post to kernel-team@ and hopefully we can get the stagnant bugs taken care of
<BenC> Moving on...
<BenC> Any community input, questions?
<zul> I dont think so
<BenC> I know we have a lot of community members interested in helping, but not sure how to help
<BenC> I hope to add some more info on that to the wiki
<BenC> and the bug triaging wiki page will go a long way to steering you folks into the abyss we call kernel-development :)
<BenC> Looks like we'll be finished quite early today
<BenC> I'll remain on until the official end of the meeting (other core are invited to as well) in case anyone pops in for a question
<BenC> Thanks everyone, and have a good week
<pkl_> OK.  Hope you have a fun time where you are :)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 06 Mar 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team | 06 Mar 20:00 UTC: MOTU meeting | 07 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 08 Mar 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Mar 10:00 UTC: LoCo Team | 12 Mar 18:00 UTC: Derivative Team
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
<Toadstool> @schedule Los_Angeles
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Los_Angeles: 06 Mar 10:00: Mozilla Team | 06 Mar 12:00: MOTU meeting | 07 Mar 04:00: Edubuntu | 08 Mar 08:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Mar 03:00: LoCo Team | 12 Mar 11:00: Derivative Team
<daviey> @schedule london
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/London: 06 Mar 18:00: Mozilla Team | 06 Mar 20:00: MOTU meeting | 07 Mar 12:00: Edubuntu | 08 Mar 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Mar 10:00: LoCo Team | 12 Mar 18:00: Derivative Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-03-06
<freeflying> @schedule Shanghai
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Asia/Shanghai: 07 Mar 02:00: Mozilla Team | 07 Mar 04:00: MOTU meeting | 07 Mar 20:00: Edubuntu | 09 Mar 00:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Mar 18:00: LoCo Team | 13 Mar 02:00: Derivative Team
<sid> @schedule New_York
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/New_York: 06 Mar 13:00: Mozilla Team | 06 Mar 15:00: MOTU meeting | 07 Mar 07:00: Edubuntu | 08 Mar 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Mar 06:00: LoCo Team | 12 Mar 14:00: Derivative Team
<Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 07 Mar 05:00: Mozilla Team | 07 Mar 07:00: MOTU meeting | 07 Mar 23:00: Edubuntu | 09 Mar 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Mar 21:00: LoCo Team | 13 Mar 05:00: Derivative Team
<emonkey> @schedule zurich
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Zurich: 06 Mar 19:00: Mozilla Team | 06 Mar 21:00: MOTU meeting | 07 Mar 13:00: Edubuntu | 08 Mar 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Mar 11:00: LoCo Team | 12 Mar 19:00: Derivative Team
* Hobbsee wont make that MOTU meeting.  oh well.
<daviey> @schedule london
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/London: 06 Mar 18:00: Mozilla Team | 06 Mar 20:00: MOTU meeting | 07 Mar 12:00: Edubuntu | 08 Mar 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Mar 10:00: LoCo Team | 12 Mar 18:00: Derivative Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Mozilla Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 06 Mar 20:00 UTC: MOTU meeting | 07 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 08 Mar 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Mar 10:00 UTC: LoCo Team | 12 Mar 18:00 UTC: Derivative Team
<gnomefreak> are we ready? and who is chairing?
<dfarning> im ready
<dfarning> for once
<dfarning> I thought alex was
<Admiral_Chicago> he won't be back until 18.30
<gnomefreak> me too
<asac> ready
<tonyyarusso> Have an agenda link handy?
<gnomefreak> Admiral_Chicago: what to chair?
<gnomefreak> tonyyarusso: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Meetings
<Admiral_Chicago> gnomefreak: no thank you, i have to be in and out due to school reponsibilities
<dfarning> gnomefreak, you are the one with experience;)
<AlexLatchford> meh?
<gnomefreak> thanks but im in middle of something atm if someone wants to start
<gnomefreak> dfarning: your up first anyway iirc
<AlexLatchford> Okay ill chair
<gnomefreak> ty AlexLatchford
<dfarning> ty
<AlexLatchford> dfarning: Approve MozillaTeam/Governance
<dfarning> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Governance
<gnomefreak> btw we dont have council page so i changed it
<dfarning> Wanted to formally approve this
<gnomefreak> but i see you found out :)
<dfarning> ty
<AlexLatchford> Personally I have no problems with the Council at the moment
<AlexLatchford> the document as it stands is great
<gnomefreak> +1
<AlexLatchford> Maybe the whole 2 weeks meeting should be changed to monthly
<gnomefreak> oh crap
<asac> monthly is better i guess
<dfarning> ok things were busy busy last month;)
<dfarning> 1 per month
<Admiral_Chicago> +1
<AlexLatchford> well we can call one if we need one in between
<gnomefreak> +1 unless needed otherwise
<AlexLatchford> +1
<AlexLatchford> who is on the Council so we know?
<dfarning> nominate asac, john, alex, and freddy
<AlexLatchford> I nominate dfarning
<AlexLatchford> do we need CC approval?
<Admiral_Chicago> i would nominate hilario
<asac> don't know
<dfarning> talk to johno we are ok
<Admiral_Chicago> err i nominate hilario as well
<gnomefreak> no we wouldnt really
<dfarning> talked
<dfarning> very clear we are under cc
<gnomefreak> correct
<AlexLatchford> hmm okay
<gnomefreak> we need to decide on couuncil since 
<dfarning> ??
<gnomefreak> wow wtf was that
<Admiral_Chicago> So to be clear, the council would take effect immedietly?
<Admiral_Chicago> and last until feisty+1 came out?
<dfarning> yes until feisty comes out in a couple of wee
<gnomefreak> Admiral_Chicago: not as of now with new nominations
<AlexLatchford> erm, well we have nominations for dfarning, AlexLatchford, gnomefreak, Admiral_Chicago, asac and hjmf
<dfarning> I fine with that
<AlexLatchford> cool, anyone know if hjmf has a problem with this?
<Admiral_Chicago> ditto
<gnomefreak> thats fine. has anyone checked with hjmf?
<AlexLatchford> as I dont believe he is here
<gnomefreak> he left a little while ago
<dfarning> he is pretty busy with school
<Admiral_Chicago> hes afk.
<Admiral_Chicago> from what i recalll
<AlexLatchford> aha okay, ewll we can include him and if his status changes we can rethink
<AlexLatchford> +1 on all candidates
<dfarning> +1
<gnomefreak> i say we finish that up on ML
<asac> +1 (though a pretty large group imo) :)
<Admiral_Chicago> +1
<dfarning> ok finish on ML
<AlexLatchford> okay, dfarning can you make a new LP.net team and add the various members?
<dfarning> yes
<gnomefreak> if i remember i will send out a post to list
<AlexLatchford> okay, thanks john
<gnomefreak> yw
<AlexLatchford> Next: Approve MozillaTeam/Membership
<dfarning> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Membership
<AlexLatchford> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Membership
<dfarning> I would like to postpone until i talk more with jono
<dfarning> new person friendly vs QA is hard;(
<AlexLatchford> yeah you have a point there
<gnomefreak> agreed dfarning you gonna handle talking to jono?
<dfarning> I will do so
<gnomefreak> i may have something else for you to run by him if i cant find elkbuntu
<dfarning> ok
<AlexLatchford> okay
<dfarning> next?
<AlexLatchford> -1 on Membership Wiki, postpone to next meeting
<AlexLatchford> you again david
<AlexLatchford> Approve MozillaTeam/Upstream
<Admiral_Chicago> -1
<Admiral_Chicago> err membership
<dfarning> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Upstream
<AlexLatchford> lol Freddy
<asac> postpone
<asac> ups
<asac> late :)
<gnomefreak> why -1?
<asac> about membership ;)
<dfarning> asac, what are your thoughts?
<gnomefreak> im happy with postponing it until david speaks with jono
<asac> the document is good, but i don't know if we need a official policy for that
<dfarning> I would like to set a standard of behavior
<dfarning> that other can depend on
<dfarning> others
<dfarning> so they know we will not send crap/spam
<asac> ah ok
* gnomefreak wants to stop what has happned the past week with triaging
<dfarning> exactly;(
<asac> patches should only be pushed upstream as well as bugs
<asac> after being reviewed by someone experienced imo
<asac> if that is in that document then its fine
<asac> its important not to stress upstream relationship ... as you said with "crap/spam"
<AlexLatchford> Personally I feel the document needs a little more work before it should be approved
<dfarning> i'll add that
<dfarning> AlexLatchford, what other work?
<gnomefreak> lets get up with jono see what he says than add it to agenda after wiki is fixed in jonos idea of it
<AlexLatchford> Saying who to contact to confirm patches, I am on the team but do not know much about Patches
<AlexLatchford> for instance..
<Admiral_Chicago> i think we need to be more visible so people don't do work outside of our policies
<gnomefreak> asac: would be the contact maybe david also?
<AlexLatchford> Admiral_Chicago: True
* gnomefreak not good with patches but i can apply them for testing
<Admiral_Chicago> for example, having to go and undo peoples tagging after we set a tag library
<dfarning> I have been trying to be an admin contact letting you guys do all the tech stuff
<gnomefreak> dfarning: tagging closing remarking ect...
<asac> gnomefreak: contact for upstream bug review?
<dfarning> ok with this in mind i'll rewrite and ask for more feed back on ML
<AlexLatchford> +1 on dfarning's suggestion
<gnomefreak> remarking example = after full crash report is attached people are "please install -dbg and run backtrace" or " not enough info closing..."
<asac> ok .... action: improve upstream directions
<Admiral_Chicago> +1 to a rewrite as well
<AlexLatchford> Yes, it still needs a bit more discussion in my eyes
<AlexLatchford> on the mailing list
<dfarning> next?
<asac> Admiral_Chicago: about the visibility
<asac> there is a general debuggingprocedures page
<asac> which links to our policy
<AlexLatchford> Next: Extension / Theme policy - Admiral_Chicago
<Admiral_Chicago> doesn't mean people read it
<asac> bug triagers should read that page from time to time ... though they probably don't do
<Admiral_Chicago> i mean in the community
<asac> yes
<AlexLatchford> maybe we can link it in from the Bugsquad page..
<gnomefreak> they dont they are using -bugs responces
<asac> i am working on convincing lp folks for adding special hints for packages
<Admiral_Chicago> well i put this agenda item to be clear about which themes / extensions we can support
<asac> like: bugs for this package are processed following procedures on http://xxx
<gnomefreak> so far only what we have afaik
<Admiral_Chicago> as I know of, we have a handful of themes and extensions in the repositories
<dfarning> I did have enough tech knowledge to determine why we were packaging certain extensions
<dfarning> did not
<gnomefreak> asac: should we get a list and go one by one down list to see what ones would be worth adding for feisty+1 (somehow i doubt they will end up in feisty)
<asac> please lets not add more to feisty
<asac> others that crash
<Admiral_Chicago> so i suggest we build a library of supported packages
<asac> feisty is pretty late
<gnomefreak> asac: thats why i said feisty+1 :)
<asac> sorry :)
<asac> sure
<asac> anyway, i guess there are only a few extensions are valid candidates
<AlexLatchford> Well, which extensions are we going to include, how do we decide?
<Admiral_Chicago> once we get a valid bug report, those would have to be pushed upstream
<gnomefreak> Admiral_Chicago: get a list of what you are thinking we support and add it to agenda for future meeting (IMHO) i have one nad asac had one we were looking into
<dfarning> I am thinking remove unless there is a good reason to keep
<asac> yes ... good reason: extension is really popular; ubuntu specific; or uses native component
<dfarning> asac,  +1
<AlexLatchford> +1 for me
<gnomefreak> dfarning: i would rather in respect to community add some extensions/themes but only ones that can erally provide help and are throughly checked out
<asac> native components are really rare ... so there should be only a handful in the end
<dfarning> not becaue a MOTU thinks it would be a good place to start packaging
<dfarning> ;(
<asac> dfarning: imo we cannot do much, but deny that we will take care for them
<gnomefreak> colorzilla == popular but imho crap since it is cause of alot of crashes
<AlexLatchford> so what action are we taking?
<asac> if they add such packages, packagers have to take care on bug triage alone
<Admiral_Chicago> could we assign them back to the packager?
<asac> colorzilla qualifies by "native component" which is why it crashes :)
<gnomefreak> ah
<asac> however colorzilla has not been released under free license
<asac> so not yet a valid candidate
<AlexLatchford> so what action are we taking?
<dfarning> I'll post something to MOTU ML for consideration
<asac> Admiral_Chicago: yes you can assign back to packager
<AlexLatchford> are we going to make a list of extensions that are working, etc..
<Admiral_Chicago> no i mean, let them deal with the bug reports
<asac> don't know ... document which extensions qualify for mozilla team support
<gnomefreak> mine has but i dont know where to even think about beginning on that one since i couldnt find the files we were looking for and i think i have since made it go away
<asac> e.g. by guidelines i posted above
<Admiral_Chicago> AlexLatchford: i was hoping we could get a list of extensions we support.
<dfarning> would can do the list
<gnomefreak> Admiral_Chicago: i would say start there
<AlexLatchford> Admiral_Chicago: could you flesh out a wiki page and then post it to the ML for discussion?
<Admiral_Chicago> AlexLatchford: can do chief
<asac> Admiral_Chicago: i think we should decide if request pops up ... we can of course screen what is currently in archive and say "yes or no"
<AlexLatchford> ta
<gnomefreak> maybe on your rounds in irc look for what people like and use but try not to ask in support channels
<Admiral_Chicago> yes
<AlexLatchford> well look for bug reports, only package extensions that do not work without it
<gnomefreak> im guessing we have a bit of time on that but would be good to have around feisty's release
<Admiral_Chicago> i'll get a wiki going, send it to the ML, maybe post on the planet about it
<gnomefreak> k
<AlexLatchford> good idea
<asac> k
<dfarning> Admiral_Chicago, +1
<AlexLatchford> Next: Greasemonkey script maintainer wanted - asac
<gnomefreak> lol
<asac> its just a request
<asac> if someone knows .js
<asac> and wants to improve life for us all :)
<AlexLatchford> meh fair enough
<gnomefreak> +1 for asac as maintainer ;) j/k
<AlexLatchford> thought I would link it
<asac> otherwise, i will try to do at some point
<AlexLatchford> lol
<Admiral_Chicago> i know a little java but not too much
<gnomefreak> i havent looked at it yet
<gnomefreak> Admiral_Chicago: its JS not so much java
<asac> its just javascript
<asac> like you do in html pages
<gnomefreak> JS is easier
<Admiral_Chicago> eh.
<asac> maybe lets open a task page :) ... to add such jobs that still have no owner :)
<gnomefreak> i remember bits and peices from classes i took in java. we had to work with some JS
<AlexLatchford> asac: +1
<gnomefreak> asac: +1
<dfarning> got one on /Roadmap
<AlexLatchford> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Roadmap
<AlexLatchford> add it to the Roadmap Tasks
<gnomefreak> btw everyone stay i have something to ask at end of meeting :)
<Admiral_Chicago> will do gnomefreak
<AlexLatchford> okay, next?
<dfarning> next?
<asac> ok maybe make another table for tasks that need a maintainer?
<Admiral_Chicago> wait, we skipped AlexLatchford 's big
<asac> i think we are through
<Admiral_Chicago> bug*
<asac> oh
<AlexLatchford> Next: Dapper / Fx 2.0 policy [WWW]  Bug 89704 - Admiral_Chicago
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 89704 in firefox "No backport of Firefox 2.o to Dapper" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/89704
<AlexLatchford> Admiral_Chicago: yeah we are not going in order, my points are not High on the list
<gnomefreak> thats stated in bug
<Admiral_Chicago> asac: maybe you can say something about out 1.5 policy
<gnomefreak> there isnt much we can do with it
<Admiral_Chicago> our*
<dfarning> Asac can you write a faq on why we can build 2.0 on dapper
<AlexLatchford> Yes I read the response from cjwatson
<asac> ah
<dfarning> cann't
<asac> look at the bug
<gnomefreak> dfarning: the upgrade page shouyld be fine for htat
<asac> its already done
<gnomefreak> that
<asac> we posted official wiki page
<asac> that states how we approach dapper long term security
<dfarning> where, I missed that;(
<asac> see comment from colin
<Admiral_Chicago> looking now
<gnomefreak> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperFirefoxSupport
<Admiral_Chicago> the Beta LP page is slower than molasses
<asac> yes thats the content
<gnomefreak> Admiral_Chicago: yes i know but i think because everyone went looking at it
<dfarning> reading
<AlexLatchford> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/FAQ
<AlexLatchford> have added this for now
<asac> good
<AlexLatchford> So this issue is sorted...
<Admiral_Chicago> alright
<dfarning> sound good
<asac> should be ... official statement exists
<AlexLatchford> Next: Accessibility testing and issues, where we can help...
<asac> e.g. canonical statement
<Admiral_Chicago> gnomefreak: no, i think in general
<AlexLatchford> This is more of a 'Be Aware' than a discussion point
<Admiral_Chicago> the beta page is just slow...
<gnomefreak> Admiral_Chicago: its not slow for me anymore
<Admiral_Chicago> maybe its my network, i'll test at home
* asac agrees that beta is slow
<gnomefreak> agreed in most cases is
<gnomefreak> moving on?
<AlexLatchford> Next: Accessibility testing and issues, where we can help...
<AlexLatchford> This is more of a 'Be Aware' than a discussion point
<asac> i have no idea about accessibility
<dfarning> me neither;(
<asac> i don't like this
<AlexLatchford> Basically the Accessibility Team has been working hard on Orca in Firefox to make sure it actually works
<gnomefreak> me neither to both comments
<asac> but someone who knows should setup some introduction on something
<dfarning> I'll look into in
<asac> e.g. what tools are used for what
<asac> etc.
<AlexLatchford> well Orca is the main program
<AlexLatchford> currently they are implementing colour filters for the colour blind I believe
<gnomefreak> AlexLatchford: is it orcas issues or ff?
<dfarning> I'll ask the ocra guy for a introduction to the issues
<Admiral_Chicago> afaik, orca has a lot of problems building
<AlexLatchford> Well it is Orca issues that will probably be reported to Firefox
<asac> if its a firefox specific issue, someone who knows should probably come up with some details
<gnomefreak> IMHO orca should be filed against orca
<AlexLatchford> Well, this is what we are trying to discover, we need to work closely with them as sometimes it is their bug and sometimes it is ours
<dfarning> I'll start the discussion
<asac> sure ... they should just join us :) ... at least from time to time
<AlexLatchford> but if you see a bug that you believe is Accessibility related, say if it only occuring with Orca enabled
<AlexLatchford> yeah, i will invite Henrik to the next meeting
<Admiral_Chicago> he was at our last one iirc.
<AlexLatchford> ..then tag it 'Accessibility' and also subscribe the Accessibility Team to the bug
<asac> haven't seen any ... maybe orca people can do us a favor and search our bts for orca issues?
<AlexLatchford> Admiral_Chicago: yes he was
<gnomefreak> my point being we have more than enough bugs to spread out to 35 teams and still not be fixed by end of year why add more if its not related to fx or tb
<AlexLatchford> gnomefreak: this is what I am saying, we need to reassign it when it is an issue..
<asac> yes ... if its not related, its not our problem
<asac> reassign
<AlexLatchford> as we cannot fix it
<AlexLatchford> it is more of a be aware of this problem
<AlexLatchford> than what we need to do
<asac> ok :)
<gnomefreak> AlexLatchford: you have the link to them as tagged still on the tags wiki right?
<AlexLatchford> Believe so
<AlexLatchford> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Bugs/Tags
<gnomefreak> dfarning: who are you planning on talking to?
<gnomefreak> btw ther eis only 1
<AlexLatchford> Well I have emailed the Accessibility list
<dfarning> who ever know anything about accessability:)
<AlexLatchford> and they are kind of aware of the problem, the response I got back was a little quiet
<gnomefreak> lol dfarning
<gnomefreak> ok who has free time this week
<AlexLatchford> ill investigate this more
<gnomefreak> lets kill all birds ;) with this
<AlexLatchford> as I started it
<dfarning> ubutnu accessability, firefox accessibilty, ...
<AlexLatchford> Okay.. moving on?
<gnomefreak> asac: any patches/testing need to be done this week?
<gnomefreak> AlexLatchford: one sec please
<AlexLatchford> okay
* gnomefreak thinking outloud
<dfarning> did the apport patch make it?
<asac> gnomefreak: not yet :)
<asac> ^^ about patches/testing that needs to be done
<gnomefreak> asac: ok i need someone else with me on bug triaging this week. start at one end and work your way through tagging them and assigning them
<AlexLatchford> I have added the testing repository to my sources.list
<gnomefreak> s/asac/everyone
* dfarning can do 2 hour per day
<asac> it might be a bit tricky to install testing repository versions for the first time
<gnomefreak> it seems like we got caught up with other things nad forgot about it
<asac> after that they should automatically upgrade
* dfarning wil have a lot of questions
<gnomefreak> dfarning: thats fine.
<gnomefreak> dfarning: ill be here most of day during week
<asac> okay ... are we through
<asac> ??
<dfarning> sounds good
<gnomefreak> dfarning: just remember crash report/edgy/coredump please assign to me
<dfarning> ok
<AlexLatchford> Next: GUI Consistency. [WWW]  Bug 42263
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 42263 in firefox "Toolbar display should be "Icons and text" for consistency" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/42263
<gnomefreak> ick still on that one
<AlexLatchford> meh?
* gnomefreak likes the icons without text.
<AlexLatchford> well there is an option to turn it off
<gnomefreak> hover mouse over it and text is there
<AlexLatchford> agreed, but it is more for consistency
<dfarning> we may want to postpone this one
<dfarning> talk of mozilla starting a linux gui group
<AlexLatchford> Really?
<gnomefreak> you can add text fairly easy
<Admiral_Chicago> yes postpone it.
<dfarning> so all distros can work together to improve interface on gtk kde
<AlexLatchford> gnomefreak: I know, but it is more of a consistency across the desktop
<AlexLatchford> TB, Nautilus, gEdit all use Text too
<Admiral_Chicago> Konqueror doesn't
<AlexLatchford> *rolls eyes*
<gnomefreak> asac: ?
<Riddell> Admiral_Chicago: doesn't what?
<AlexLatchford> Personally it wouldn't bother me too much if the change was made
<gnomefreak> Riddell: have text and icons
<Riddell> gnomefreak: it does in KDE 4
<AlexLatchford> as default?
<Riddell> yes
<gnomefreak> yes
<AlexLatchford> well if we are after consistency I really think the change needs to be made, but whether or not we wait until Feisty+1 for it if we need more debate time..
<gnomefreak> we should beablet o change it with very little feedback from mozilla but im opposed to the change personally. it just adds one more thing to slow fx down
<asac> sorry ... have no time ... tel conference
<gnomefreak> asac: k
<Admiral_Chicago> i meant in 3.5.6.
<gnomefreak> ok lets posepone this than wait for asac feedback on it
<dfarning> ok
<AlexLatchford> gnomefreak: agreed
<gnomefreak> Admiral_Chicago: text is off there
<Admiral_Chicago> i know that is one thing that has been worked on
<gnomefreak> it should be as simple as a option in rules during ./configure
<gnomefreak> but im not positive on that
<AlexLatchford> just fired up OOo and it doesn't use text
<Admiral_Chicago> to be fair, we have to realize we are packaging from MF, it is really up to them
<AlexLatchford> maybe this is a decision the TechBoard should take
<Admiral_Chicago> the best we can do is file upstream
<gnomefreak> MF? and please dont say what i think you mean
<Admiral_Chicago> Mozilla Foundation...
<gnomefreak> oh ok good :)
<Admiral_Chicago> haha.
<dfarning> this it for meeting?
<gnomefreak> but again ITS A UBUNTU CHANGE afaik
<gnomefreak> not mozillas
<AlexLatchford> well that change will never be included in Firefox default, but we can change it in Ubuntu Firefox
<Admiral_Chicago> really? hmm, we may need to look at that
<gnomefreak> we had one more i think
<dfarning> all ubuntu changes need mozilla approval
<dfarning> to keep trademark
<AlexLatchford> gnomefreak: we have done everything on the list
<gnomefreak> dfarning: its provided as a ./configure option i think
<gnomefreak> AlexLatchford: ah ok goodie
<AlexLatchford> lol what do you have to say..
<dfarning> ok
<gnomefreak> ok anyone going through bugs please assign edgy retraces to me
<dfarning> ok
<AlexLatchford> okay
<gnomefreak> i want to get them out asap
<AlexLatchford> We have any news of Thunderbird-dbg
<gnomefreak> and since i cant always be here that doesnt mean im not infront of pc
<gnomefreak> dfarning: thats your department
<gnomefreak> what email was i going to write? :(
<gnomefreak> council?
<dfarning> Are we still missing the latest build -dbgsym
<Admiral_Chicago> gnomefreak: will do if i see any
<dfarning> for tb
<gnomefreak> dfarning: we have no tb-dbg or dbgsym for edgy at all there is a dbg-sym for feisty i think
<AlexLatchford> dfarning: I am running Feisty and there is no Thunderbird-dbg package
<dfarning> ill follow up with martin
* dfarning wonders what is going wrong
<AlexLatchford> maybe I am looking in the wrong place..
<gnomefreak> mozilla-thunderbird-dbgsym in feisty
<gnomefreak> AlexLatchford: add universe and multiverse restricted to pittis repo :)
<gnomefreak> its in main
<AlexLatchford> I need pitti's own repository?
<tonyyarusso> What is dbgsym?
<gnomefreak> for the dbgsym you do
<AlexLatchford> gnomefreak: aha okay, this is probably why it is not showing
<gnomefreak> they are debugging symbols for packages
<tonyyarusso> ah
<gnomefreak> AlexLatchford: its not dbg so you cant get backtrace with it
<dfarning> they are the debug symbols striped out of the executables
<AlexLatchford> hmm okay
<gnomefreak> ok are we done i need a smoke
<AlexLatchford> Meeting Closed I guess
<AlexLatchford> thanks guys
<gnomefreak> :)
<gnomefreak> ty
<dfarning> adjourn
<\sh> moins
<ajmitch> hi
<geser> hi
<dholbach> heya
<TheMuso> Hey all.
<siretart> hey folks!
<lfittl> hello everybody
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: MOTU meeting | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 07 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 08 Mar 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Mar 10:00 UTC: LoCo Team | 12 Mar 18:00 UTC: Derivative Team
<shawarma> Hi!
<Lure> hi
<Toadstool> heya!
<morty> Hello
<dholbach> Ok, let's start off with the meeting
<dholbach> First point on the agenda: "SRU Policy evaluation. How can we make it more efficient an worthwhile?"
<ajmitch> Mithrandir had some suggestions about that
* Mithrandir waves.
<sistpoty> hi
<dholbach> sistpoty added some suggestions for that at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings
<ajmitch> we have a lot of packages stuck in testing
<ajmitch> hi Mithrandir :)
<sistpoty> erm... I didn't add the suggestions :P
<sistpoty> however I agree that we have many pacakges stuck in testing... I actually wanted to do some figure for the next sru-report, but the trend seems obvious already
<ajmitch> "lots"
<dholbach> how many are those?
<sistpoty> dholbach: I don't have the figures yet...
<ajmitch> sistpoty: since your last report, do you know of any being let into -updates?
<Mithrandir> dholbach: enough that people try to sneak in bugfixes as backports instead of going through the SRU dance.
<sistpoty> ajmitch: at most one, but I don't remember exactly
<Mithrandir> when people are trying to do that, it means doing the right thing (SRU) is harder than doing the wrong thing (backport)
<crimsun> one thing that has bugged me about universe SRU is that ours is apparently more stringent than main's. Requiring 5 ACKs seems a bit far-flung.
<sistpoty> yep
<sistpoty> do I read the first proposal right, to skip -proposed entirely?
<Mithrandir> crimsun: agreed, that seems a bit over the top.  Especially given that you won't ever see core packages such as X or the kernel in a universe update.
<crimsun> I would not feel comfortable skipping release-proposed
<sistpoty> (also there some really easy ones with trivial changes/or mere rebuilds)
<Mithrandir> I think the ideas added there was from some suggestions I threw out without really thinking them through last night, so they might be crackful.
<crimsun> however, we should consider dropping the 5-ACK requirement
<dholbach> Ok, we have the following suggestions:     * Just have motu-sru ack then upload to -updates
<dholbach>     * Go back to old policy where SRU didn't need approvals, just MOTU uploads. Perhaps still using -proposed for higher risk or high profile updates.
<dholbach>     * Form testing team to get testing done faster. The current bottleneck seems to be mostly in getting testing.
<dholbach>     * (ADDED) Reduce the number of ACKs.
<siretart> crimsun: like in requiring 2 or 3 ACKs or dropping it entirely?
<sistpoty> hm... ideally I'd like to see every motu being able to upload directly to -proposed, and have the checking done only prior to -updates
<sistpoty> however that comes with another problem:
<dholbach> Apart from reducing the number of ACKs, I think the testing team is a very good idea.
<Mithrandir> the idea of the first one was to have the current process, but upload to -updates and not -proposed and thereby have -updates be the testing and the safe area.  It means we can get fixes in quite a bit quicker, but also that enabling universe -updates might open you to lightly/not tested fixes.
<ajmitch> sistpoty: I thought that's how it was meant to be now
<sistpoty> ajmitch: no, it's still going through -proposed first
<crimsun> dholbach: / siretart: dropping a 5-ACK requirement seems like a good idea if we get an SRU verification team (similar to main's) in place
<sistpoty> well the other problem we have is that most of the updates are not done by motu's but rather by motu-hopefuls
<crimsun> in essence, replacing the 5 ACKs with 1
<Mithrandir> remember that creating another team does not magically increase the amount of manpower available.
<ajmitch> sistpoty: they have to be checked by 1 MOTU anyway then
<ajmitch> especially when you get the same people in 5 teams
<sistpoty> ajmitch: yep... currently that's motu-sru doing the checks
<sistpoty> ajmitch: however I'd also like to have *one* person responsible for an update, so that would probably suggest to transfer the responsibility to the motu sponsoring
<sistpoty> (which could then as well be bad)
<ajmitch> that's what a sponsor should do anyway :)
<\sh> sistpoty: how many StableReleaseUpdates do we have daily/weekly/monthly?
<siretart> \sh: enough. really..
<ajmitch> \sh: and how many don't get done because of the long slow process?
<crimsun> right. I propose we drop the 5-ACK requirement and just have the sponsoring MOTU check it.
<sistpoty> \sh: currently I'd say ~2 per week, with 26 currently ongoing
<crimsun> (we should be making this more lightweight instead of adding another team)
<ajmitch> crimsun: agreed
* siretart feels some general concent to crimsun's propsal
<sistpoty> \sh: however when we first introduced the policy, the numbers where far higher
<siretart> consent, even.
<ajmitch> crimsun: so make -proposed open for all uploads, and have 1 signoff before it gets pushed to -updates?
<Mithrandir> given that universe is so lightly covered before release, I think we will always have a fairly high amount of SRUs done to fix critical bugs there, so we should just plan for that.
<dholbach> was the -proposed stage the bottleneck?
<Toadstool> ajmitch: how do you determine whether it can be signed off or not? wait for someone to confirm there's no regression?
<crimsun> ajmitch: a step forward, yes. We should keep the minimum aging period, though.
<Mithrandir> dholbach: many updates seem to get into -proposed, but never get uploaded to -proposed.
<sistpoty> dholbach: currently it is (or rather the testing phase there)
<ajmitch> dholbach: it seems to be
<Mithrandir> uh, never get uploaded to -updates
<crimsun> Toadstool: the minimum aging period combined with testing should alleviate that
<dholbach> ok, so making -proposed open for all uploads does not really help the problem, right?
<ajmitch> Toadstool: having at least 1 person testing is helpful
<ajmitch> dholbach: depends if you still want motu-sru approving anything for -proposed
<sistpoty> at which point would motu-sru then review the diffs? or not at all?
<\sh> sistpoty: thinking about manpower and time: how many packages are tested and checked from the sru team during one week? (also thinking, that this work is lost from the normal motu work)
<dholbach> I think that having an initial check is a good thing
<sistpoty> \sh: sru-team currently doesn't test updates, but only reviews the debdiffs
<sistpoty> \sh: and this happens (apart from a few exceptions) very timely
<siretart> since we have enough members now, it seems.
<crimsun> motu-sru shouldn't block release-proposed IMO. Making fixes widely available via release-proposed ASAP seems like a good idea.
<sistpoty> Mithrandir: is it possible from a lp side to have uploads to -proposed pass through as is?
<sistpoty> crimsun: I agree
<Mithrandir> sistpoty: it'd require manual action from an archive team member, but doing that either when prodded or on archive days would be fine.
<\sh> siretart: well, but checking the debdiffs, doesn't mean that the package is alright. And if there are no users who are actively testing, it won't get uploaded to -updates, right? so the workload of checking debdiffs is useless somehow, until there is at least one user who tells us: "Package works for me" , or did I misunderstood something? :)
<sistpoty> ok
<ajmitch> afaik there are 3 archive days a week no, so that's no blocker
<sistpoty> \sh: right. because of that we have the stage in -proposed
<sistpoty> \sh: however checking the debdiffs is not useless actually ;)
<dholbach> requiring the sponsor to test and having a team of testers test it would help with that step, wouldn't it?
<sistpoty> sure, it would, but also lowering the number of acks needed would as well
<dholbach> that's what I meant: one sponsor ACK, one testing team ACK
<dholbach> that's just a proposal - you guys who work on the motu-sru team know better than I do, if it makes sense.
<sistpoty> how about the following: any motu can upload to -proposed. one member of sru needs to give green lights for -updates + 5 works for me within 5 days, 3 within 10 days and > 10 days needs another ack from motu-sru (to sort out simple stuff like rebuilds from tougher updates)?
<Toadstool> dholbach: so motu-sru approval is not required anymore in your proposal?
<\sh> sistpoty: you know what I mean, checking the debdiff, but no one to test, the package will not leave -proposed, so the work is "vertane zeit" ( I don't know the english translation)
<crimsun> Ok, so how does this proposal sound?  1) Remove the pre-upload-to-proposed ACK requirement (make -proposed open to ubuntu-dev without motu-sru approval).  2) The sponsoring ubuntu-dev member is responsible for gathering testing with 2 ACKs, which must be documented on the LP bug and in the final -updates changelog.  3) The minimum aging period of 7 days in -proposed remains.  4) motu-sru goes away.
<sistpoty> \sh: hehe, you mean because no update actually makes it, right? *g*
<\sh> sistpoty: yepp
<sistpoty> \sh: sure
<dholbach> Toadstool: that's a different question :)
<Mithrandir> crimsun: sounds fine with me.
<ajmitch> crimsun: I like it
<crimsun> From my perspective in motu-sru, we've really only encountered a few true discussion-worthy ones. The remainders are trivial "oh, looks good, +1".
<siretart> crimsun: how many testers do have to confirm the fix with your proposal?
<Toadstool> crimsun: looks good.
<dholbach> crimsun: I like it too.
<crimsun> siretart: two (including the ubuntu-dev sponsor and one tester)
<Mithrandir> of course, people are allowed to ask for second opinions if they feel an update needs more review.
<crimsun> Mithrandir: precisely
<rmjb> can ubuntu-qa assist with testing?
<sistpoty> crimsun: I generally like to see normal motu's more involved in sru's and take more responsibility there. sounds great for me
<dholbach> rmjb: we could ask ubuntu-bugsquad@ for help with that
<crimsun> anyone else have thoughts on the proposal given above, and/or can we "vote"?
<sistpoty> let's vote
<ajmitch> +1 for crimsun's proposal
<sistpoty> +1
<\sh> crimsun +1 :)
<dholbach> +1 too
<TheMuso> +1
<crimsun> +1
<Toadstool> +1
<ajmitch> sounds like it's approved, what's next on the list? :)
<sistpoty> how do we do the transition for this policy?
<siretart> +1 and +1 :)
<sistpoty> unsubscribe motu-sru from all bugs and subscribing universe-sponsors for the ones which don't have a motu as assignee?
<ajmitch> sistpoty: find everything with 2 ACKs & get it pushed to -updates
<dholbach> We need to document it and announce it to the public, especially to the TB.
<crimsun> sistpoty: sounds good for starters
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: somebody needs to actually do the uploads, though.
<siretart> can we just remove the group 'motu-sru'?
<ajmitch> excellent one *less* team :)
<ajmitch> Mithrandir: ah true, they don't get manually shoved across, do they?
<crimsun> siretart: that sounds good
<sistpoty> well, I'd like to see all SRU's from non-motus which have been sponsored by motu-sru being taken care for... then we can remove motu-sru ;)
<sistpoty> but I guess I'll do some uploads to -updates after the meeting ;)
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: they need to be uploaded.
<dholbach> Nice. I'll update the Freeze Exception page and write an announcement.
<sistpoty> great dholbach
<sistpoty> ok, next item?
<dholbach> jono asks: "From asking around, it seems the project needs help with (a) outreach and getting new people involved (b) getting people excited about MOTU and (c) defining some direction for the project. Is this a fair assessment?"
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: MOTU meeting | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 07 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 08 Mar 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Mar 10:00 UTC: LoCo Team | 12 Mar 18:00 UTC: Derivative Team | 13 Mar 16:00 UTC: Forum Council
<dholbach> I'm not sure it's a good idea to discuss it in a meeting, since we could spend quite some time in here talking about the topic.
<dholbach> What do you think about having some minutes of brainstorming as 'data collection' for another meeting or discussion on the mailing list?
<TheMuso> dholbach: I would have to agree.
<\sh> dholbach: I think a better question is: how are the other community driven projects solving this problems? mostly a hen and egg problem ;)
<crimsun> I propose we migrate that discussion ubuntu-motu@ .
<dholbach> \sh: It's definitely another question. :)
<sistpoty> I guess it might make sense to have jono here to actually discuss it, but brainstorming sounds good
<crimsun> +to
<siretart> just one small point here:
<siretart> this weekend, at chemnitzer linux tage, I had a talk about developer communities in ubuntu
<dholbach> siretart: nice - you have some slides up somewhere? :)
<siretart> the ppl were quite impressed about that we have so few developers for so many packages
<siretart> and that ubuntu is such a young distro
* ajmitch still feels we're constantly stretched 
<dholbach> I hope you all feel patted on the back.
<siretart> dholbach: sure, get them at http://wiki.tauware.de/blog:clt2007 - directly: http://wiki.tauware.de/_media/blog:ubuntu_communities.odp?id=blog%3Aclt2007&cache=cache
<\sh> siretart: regarding MOTU or complete ubuntu-dev?
<siretart> german, though
<siretart> \sh: both
<ajmitch> dholbach: most of the thanks should probably go to debian, though
* rmjb would like to help... but is overwhelmed with all that is needed to be known
<siretart> keep in mind it was a 30min talk, I couldn't go into details
<ajmitch> rmjb: that's part of what we need to discuss - how to get people involved that can't spend several hours a day on it :)
<sistpoty> rmjb: #ubuntu-motu is a good starting place ;)
<crimsun> ajmitch: (right, given the ratio of merge to syncs)
<siretart> however, I really think we have way too few developers, espc. in universe land. I  don't have concrete ideas however how to fix this
<\sh> the difference is: doing OSS work for a living, and get money for it, or just do it as a hobby...
<dholbach> ajmitch: MOTU is doing a very good job, but we're standing on the shoulders of giants. :-)
<siretart> personal package archives could improve things. is there any news on this topic?
<ajmitch> siretart: we have quite a few developers, but most are inactive
<ajmitch> we talked recently about sending out a nice email to inactive motus inviting them to get involved again
<crimsun> testing for SRU in -proposed is a good way to get involved, too
<siretart> ajmitch: right. I'm talking about 'active' developers. but it's quite hard to define 'active' contributors.
<sistpoty> yep... and we need to make more things clear on the mailing lists imho... so that casual hopefuls know what's going on even if they're not on irc
* ajmitch isn't particularly active
<dholbach> ajmitch: gpocentek and I are working on that
<TheMuso> One thing I've noticed is that if one is out of the loop too long, it can take a while to catch up to the latest goings on.
<dholbach> ok let's start to mention problems and possible solutions as bullet points for 3-4 minutes - try not to get too deep into discussions
<TheMuso> Because things change so fast.
<Toadstool> true
<sistpoty> TheMuso: right
<ajmitch> dholbach: great
<crimsun> As for one route to bring in hopefuls:  it would be nice to have instructions for setting up various release chroots to help with testing. I can work on that.
<sistpoty> * motu-school sessions
<dholbach> * activity on the mailing list
<ajmitch> * finding a place to start working
<dholbach> * more patting on the back
<Toadstool> (more hugs? :)
<dholbach> * (a) outreach and getting new people involved
<dholbach> *  (b) getting people excited about MOTU
<TheMuso> sistpoty: Thats the impression I've got a couple of times when I have been gone for a while in the past, and have come back to help out again, and found myself having to find out the latest happenings.
<dholbach> ;-)
<rmjb> there seem to be diff types of MOTU, mergers, bug fixsers, packagers, maybe different pages for these different types of tasks?
<\sh> * spreading curiosity to the people / * why should I work on Ubuntu, and what are the benefits for me and my daily life
<rmjb> at least to help hopefuls ease into tasks
<dholbach> * better structured documentation
<\sh> I mean it serious...those questions I get here in my office..."why are you working on ubuntu, if you don't earn money with it"
<TheMuso> Could the packaging guide possibly be improved?
<ajmitch> TheMuso: if there's someone willing to improve it, sure
<dholbach> more (team work - not administrative) teams
<TheMuso> I have never really looked at it myself, but people may be daunted by it.
<crimsun> TheMuso: yes, and there's work on that
<rmjb> the packaging guide is good... the end could have some tips and tricks though
<sistpoty> * monthly summary of all policy changes + todo list on the mailing list?
<Toadstool> sistpoty: that'd be great
<dholbach> * more scheduled QA sessions
<crimsun> (random thought: why don't we turn the packaging guide into a cookbook, ala the O'Reilly series?)
<xerosis> * mentors to ease new people in
<bddebian> We have mentors
<sistpoty> xerosis: we have mentors already... maybe that's in a too less prominent place on the wiki`
<sistpoty> ? even
<dholbach> ok, maybe let's close the list here - this should be a good start for more discussions among our team and with jono - let's move on.
<xerosis> apologies
<siretart> dholbach++
<TheMuso> I think some MOTUs that don't currently mentor should consider doing it at some point.
<sistpoty> dholbach: +1
<dholbach> Let's have a look at our TODO lists.
<sistpoty> (and I should stop mentoring, as I'm a particular bad mentor :P)
<dholbach> sistpoty mentions "what's missing (php4-transition? what else)"
<dholbach> xerosis: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentors
<sistpoty> dholbach: well, php4 is about to be removed... let me look at the mail back again
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO
<dholbach> didn't we have a unmetdeps list somewhere?
<dholbach> or somebody who agreed to file a bunch of bugs on it?
<\sh> php4-transition to 20050606+lfs?
<dholbach> Is somebody here who'd like to do that?
<\sh> I already uploaded many php4 packages to rebuild on latest php4 api change
<dholbach> \sh: we're talking about removal
<\sh> dholbach: ah
<sistpoty> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2007-February/001288.html
<tonyyarusso> crimsun: (would it be able to cover everything that way?  Seems pretty good as is)
<crimsun> tonyyarusso: offband to -motu, please
<dholbach> What's missing on  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO ?
<dholbach> Is somebody here who'd like to file a bunch of unmetdeps bugs?
<ajmitch> results of an archive rebuild (yet to come)
* ajmitch was going to, but hasn't yet
<dholbach> ajmitch: do you know what's the status there?
<dholbach> ajmitch: (archive rebuild)
<ajmitch> no idea about archive rebuild
<sistpoty> there was some smaller thing as well iirc, but I cannot remember exactly what it was
* ajmitch could still do unmet deps bugs if you really wish
<dholbach> that'd be nice
<sistpoty> ajmitch: that'd be great
<dholbach> http://daniel.holba.ch/bzr/massfile/
<ajmitch> yeah I have that checked out somewhere
<dholbach> :)
<dholbach> anything else we're missing on that list?
<dholbach> did anybody spend some time to tag bugs as 'bitesize' or 'packaging'?
<dholbach> should we call out a Universe HUG DAY or something?
<bddebian> Probably a good idea
<sistpoty> dholbach: sure... was just about to mention that ;)
<dholbach> rock
<dholbach> who does it? :)
<crimsun> dholbach: that would be a good idea, and it's an easy way to get people involved this week
<TheMuso> sorry guys, gotta run.
<ajmitch> dholbach can distribute hugs
<dholbach> hehe :)
<sistpoty> hehe
<dholbach> ok, ajmitch will file unmetdeps bugs, I'll try to find out what's up with the rebuilds
<dholbach> who'd join Universe HUG DAY to work through universe bugs?
<dholbach> who'd announce it?
<bddebian> I would try to join (work has been brutal lately)
<crimsun> I'm up for working on tagging universe bugs as bitesize/etc.
<sistpoty> I'll try my best, but currently I need to cancel many tasks due to my thesis :(
<dholbach> ok, I'd join in as well
<dholbach> friday?
<crimsun> Friday sounds good
<dholbach> I can write the announce
<dholbach> anything else for the TODO list?
<Toadstool> hmm, i'll try to join too
<sistpoty> I guess everone should just add s.th. if he finds another thing, ok?
<dholbach> ok
<Toadstool> (quite busy at work though)
<dholbach> siretart asks "What to do with broken packages we know about?"
<ajmitch> dholbach: blog it on planet :)
<bddebian> dholbach / siretart: Like?
<siretart> we had another example today: xserver-xgl:
<dholbach> "there are packages, which we know that we won't be able to fix them before release. This includes e.g. unmet dependencies. Can we do better than leaving them in the release?"
<bddebian> Ahh
<Toadstool> dholbach: remove'em from the archive? :)
* Toadstool hides
<crimsun> concerning xserver-xgl: I'll look at it tonight, since I have access to hardware that would be affected
<siretart> bddebian: xserver-xgl got broken by the xorg 7.2 upload to main, and the diff to current git head is way too big to review
<dholbach> I don't think we should try to find a too easy solution to the problem in five minutes of a meeting.
<Mithrandir> Toadstool: that is painful when we next time sync from Debian.
<siretart> bddebian: other packages include packages with unmet deps
<Toadstool> Mithrandir: yeah I know, just kidding
<Mithrandir> we've so far fixed unmetdeps in SRUs, which I think is sane enough.
<ajmitch> crimsun: thanks
<sistpoty> yep... and sometimes contributors contribute fixes for sru's :)
<siretart> I don't have any concrete proposal, I just find it sad that we release with so many broken package, and for many, we know that they are broken
<dholbach> I'm not sure there's a general answer to the question.
<crimsun> we should really push to get those RC fixes from Debian in before feisty release
<siretart> I compare with debian, where broken packages get removed before release. but that's not really applicable to ubuntu, I know
<Toadstool> if the amount of really broken packages stays reasonably low, we can take care of them with SRUs, right?
<sistpoty> I guess we should try to remove packages that are broken which have been removed from debian some time ago
<crimsun> unmet deps can be resolved via SRU, so I'm not really worried. Perhaps we should start with known _regressions_ from edgy first.
<ajmitch> siretart: that's because they're removed from testing, but can be left in unstable
<Mithrandir> siretart: we don't have testing (as in the distribution)
<siretart> ajmitch: right
<Mithrandir> we could maybe remove the binaries..
<dholbach> sistpoty: i think that happens regularly (debian-removed -> ubuntu-removed)
<siretart> Mithrandir: we don't have some other solution either
<siretart> Mithrandir: removing binaries sounds like a good idea to me!
<sistpoty> dholbach: iirc there are some left... maybe if they have ubuntu changes?
<dholbach> sistpoty: dunno
<Mithrandir> siretart: it'll require binary NEW then, which is significantly less work than source NEW.
<Mithrandir> siretart: I'd need to discuss it with the archive team.
<ajmitch> siretart: btw about xserver-xgl - the majority of the debdiff is the nasty bundled mesa copy
<sistpoty> siretart: removing the binary sounds like a good idea
<dholbach> ajmitch: that's info we need in the bug report :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: it's already in the diffstat :)
<siretart> Mithrandir: I'd expect binary removals to happen really short before release. binary new shouldn't be too much of a problem at the beginning of the release cycle
<Mithrandir> siretart: uh, have you looked at NEW when we start syncing from Debian?
<siretart> Mithrandir: it's long, I assume :)
<siretart> Mithrandir: but do you really do an extensive NEW review for every NEW package from debian?
<dholbach> so there's only the possibility to remove binary packages as a reasonable measure it seems.
<Mithrandir> siretart: I've done so so far at least, yes.  But as I said, binary NEW is a lot less work than source NEW.
<siretart> I imagine
<Mithrandir> (since it doesn't require checking all licences, just making sure the packages are somewhat sane)
<sistpoty> ok, I guess we'll just wait for a resolution from ubuntu-archive on this one, right?
<dholbach> right
<ajmitch> ok, so next meeting time?
<dholbach> any other business?
<ajmitch> :)
<sistpoty> Mithrandir: can you inform us of the result please?
<bddebian> yeah, I need a raise ;-P
<Mithrandir> sistpoty: yes.  Can you mail me reminding me to do so?
<sistpoty> Mithrandir: sure, or I'll just ping you :P
<dholbach> ok, no other business - how about in three weeks?
<ajmitch> ok, what time of day?
<dholbach> so we keep on rolling with the MC meeting
<sistpoty> erm... wasn't there some overlapping with TB meeting (or was that MC meeting)?
<crimsun> after 20:00 if in 3 weeks
<ajmitch> sistpoty: with TB
<Mithrandir> sistpoty: sure, that's fine.  It's just that it's 22:00 here now and I was planning on heading to bed soonish, not work. :-)
<crimsun> because TB is at 20:00 in 3 weeks
<ajmitch> Mithrandir: I'll poke you about f-spot uvf tomorrow then :)
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: sure
<dholbach> let's do it before TB then
<dholbach> :)
<crimsun> 18:00?
<ajmitch> dholbach: or +- 12 hours
<dholbach> sounds good to me
<ajmitch> to allow people in australia to make it to the meeting
<sistpoty> ajmitch: yep, rotating seems like a fair thing to do
<sistpoty> 8.00 UTC?
<dholbach> fine with me too
<ajmitch> sounds fair
<sistpoty> +1 here as well
<sistpoty> <-- needs to get up really early then :P
<Toadstool> late meeting but fair :) +1
<ajmitch> sistpoty: you'll live :)
<sistpoty> hrhr
<bddebian> heh
<dholbach> WFM
<dholbach> who writes the announce?
<sistpoty> hm... WFM always reminds me of WTF *g*
<sistpoty> I can do it
<dholbach> ok, excellent
<sistpoty> btw.: is anyone doing the minutes?
<dholbach> thanks everbody for showing up to the meeting :)
<ajmitch> thanks
<bddebian> Thanks.  Sorry I'm not as "involved" lately :'-(
<crimsun> sistpoty: I started but got volunteered for another meeting here. Can you do them?
<sistpoty> crimsun: ok, will do
<crimsun> thank
<crimsun> +s
<LaserJock> sorry guys, really late
<dholbach> you ROCK
<sistpoty> bddebian? you *not* involved? then I'm completely away from the project :P
<bddebian> pfft :-)
<bddebian> LaserJock: Just in time ;-P
<LaserJock> all over?
<Toadstool> yep
<ajmitch> LaserJock: yep, just finished
<ajmitch> sistpoty: don't worry, I'm not even remotely in touch with the project :)
<sistpoty> haha
<LaserJock> :(
* bddebian pokes ajmitch
<LaserJock> I didn't get volunteered for anything did I?
<ajmitch> bddebian: yes?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: only a little bit
<sistpoty> wohoo I don't need to do motu-sru reports any longer :)
<Toadstool> heh
<bddebian> ajmitch: Just for fun, sorry :-)
<LaserJock> sistpoty: what's the new policy?
<ajmitch> 09:21 < crimsun> Ok, so how does this proposal sound?  1) Remove the pre-upload-to-proposed ACK requirement (make -proposed open to ubuntu-dev without
<ajmitch>                  motu-sru approval).  2) The sponsoring ubuntu-dev member is responsible for gathering testing with 2 ACKs, which must be documented on the
<ajmitch>                  LP bug and in the final -updates changelog.  3) The minimum aging period of 7 days in -proposed remains.  4) motu-sru goes away.
<ajmitch> bah, that pasted *really* badly
* ajmitch blames putty
<sistpoty> poor ajmitch
<sistpoty> ;)
<ajmitch> stuck in windows at work
<crimsun> sistpoty: yes, that was the nefarious plan =)
<bddebian> PuTTY r0x j00
<Toadstool> uh
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 07 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 08 Mar 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Mar 10:00 UTC: LoCo Team | 12 Mar 18:00 UTC: Derivative Team | 13 Mar 16:00 UTC: Forum Council | 13 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
<daviey> @schedule london'
<daviey> @schedule london
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/London: 07 Mar 12:00: Edubuntu | 08 Mar 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Mar 10:00: LoCo Team | 12 Mar 18:00: Derivative Team | 13 Mar 16:00: Forum Council | 13 Mar 20:00: Technical Board
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-03-07
<SpudDogg> @schedule new york
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/New_York: 07 Mar 07:00: Edubuntu | 08 Mar 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Mar 06:00: LoCo Team | 12 Mar 14:00: Derivative Team | 13 Mar 12:00: Forum Council | 13 Mar 16:00: Technical Board
<_3oo3> ?? what's ubuntu?
<PriceChild> Hey _3oo3
<PriceChild> !ubuntu | _3oo3
<PriceChild> bah
<PriceChild> Ubuntu is a complete Linux-based operating system, freely available with both community and professional support. It is developed by a large community and we invite you to participate too! - Also see http://www.ubuntu.com and http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuHowCome
<_3oo3> i have no idea what that means, really, other than 'its a linux distro'
<tonyyarusso> _3oo3: what else did you need to know?
<tonyyarusso> Actually, this should be an #ubuntu-offtopic question - see you there.
<_3oo3> what ubuntu is is an offtopic question?  that's obscene :\
<tonyyarusso> For -meeting it is, see the topic
<_3oo3> development, right?
<tonyyarusso> This is the channel for various online meetings for all kinds of teams.  #ubuntu is support questions.  #ubuntu-offtopic is general chat.
<_3oo3> oh, so it isn't open to the public?
<tonyyarusso> It's open to join, sure - but it still has a topic to stick to, like any other channel.
* _3oo3 yawns
<_3oo3> so you guys talk about meetings in here?  like for waht?
<tonyyarusso> No, we *have* meetings.  That'll be all.
<_3oo3> Meetings about meetings?  All I see is 'meeting'...no topic...you should fix that, because I'm really confused, now.
<_3oo3> well, that explains why no one wanted to tell me in here.  you should have a meeting about user knowledgability, and how to make it start happening.
<LongPointyStick> @schedule sydney
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 07 Mar 23:00: Edubuntu | 09 Mar 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Mar 21:00: LoCo Team | 13 Mar 05:00: Derivative Team | 14 Mar 03:00: Forum Council | 14 Mar 07:00: Technical Board
<LongPointyStick> @schedle
<LongPointyStick> @schedule
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 07 Mar 12:00: Edubuntu | 08 Mar 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Mar 10:00: LoCo Team | 12 Mar 18:00: Derivative Team | 13 Mar 16:00: Forum Council | 13 Mar 20:00: Technical Board
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 08 Mar 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Mar 10:00 UTC: LoCo Team | 12 Mar 18:00 UTC: Derivative Team | 13 Mar 16:00 UTC: Forum Council | 13 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
<cbx33> meeing 5 minutes?
<cbx33> meeting
* ogra waves
<daviey> @schedule london
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/London: Current meeting: Edubuntu | 08 Mar 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Mar 10:00: LoCo Team | 12 Mar 18:00: Derivative Team | 13 Mar 16:00: Forum Council | 13 Mar 20:00: Technical Board
<ogra> so, seems we're not many today
<ogra> RichEd didnt show up yet after travelling home
* cbx33 is here
<ogra> no idea where willvdl is at ...
<cbx33> poor guy he must be shattered
<ogra> (but i havent checked the holiday schedule)
<cbx33> didn't willvdl say he was going on holiday
<ogra> i trust that he is ;)
<ogra> sooo, tech update ...
<ogra> the winfoss software entered the add-on CD this week
<highvoltage> been a while since we had everyone here
<highvoltage> maybe next week :)
<cbx33> yeh
<ogra> in case you have a windown machine around, please test it
<ogra> and report bugs if you find any
<cbx33> of course
<cbx33> ;)
<ogra> apart from that herd5 went well ...
<ogra> if you did test installs you might have noticed that the -generic kernel was installed on ltsp clients
<ogra> i'm just reverting that to the i386 kernel again (costs us 20M or so on the server CD)
<ogra> i finished off the last bits of the pulseaudio channge over the weekend ...
<ogra> esound emulation works completely again ... so you can hear even sounds again
<cbx33> w00t
<cbx33> dude you rock
<ogra> (apart from volume control and full alsa support indeed)
<highvoltage> what's the benefit of using a i386 kernel?
<ogra> pulse somehow limited the samplesize to 1024 bytes
<ogra> highvoltage, support for real 386 hardware
<highvoltage> ok
<ogra> some VIA boards need it for example
<ogra> apart from that it's minimally smaller, buzt thats not significant
<highvoltage> ah i see
<cbx33> ogra: do you do cplusplus ?
<ogra> atm i'm finishing a locale plugin that sets fonts, keymaps and language to the servers defaults
<ogra> so no more XKbLayout in lts.conf is needed unless you use multiple langs
<ogra> i'm also working on a default lts.conf for ltsp itself ... (edubuntu already had one )
<ogra> so that we have SOUND and LOCALDEV as well as NETWORK_SWAP set to true in *all* installs
<ogra> my next ltsp upload will be called version 5.0.1 btw ... (in agreement with ltsp.org)
<ogra> cbx33, could you prepare a package of TCM that has the userlist stuff fixed asap ...
<cbx33> ogra I can try to get that done tonight
<cbx33> did you check my bzr repo yet
<ogra> great
<cbx33> cos then I can use that
<cbx33> which has lots of fixes
<ogra> nope, not yet, its on my list for today stuff
<highvoltage> cbx**, sounds like its time to step up testing again
<ogra> yes, please take the bzr tree as base
<cbx33> ogra: there is that ugly fix
<cbx33> I would like if you can suggest/make another alternative
<cbx33> I know you don;t like mine
<ogra> give me time to look at it first ... i'm currently in ltsp stuff ... please make sure to pull in my last fix to the package (transitional package and conflicts/replaces)
<cbx33> yeh done
<ogra> ok
<cbx33> i'm pretty sure the bzr tree has those already
<ogra> ok, any other tech stuff ?
<cbx33> other than a general question
<cbx33> ogra do you do cplusplus
<cbx33> no
<ogra> no
<cbx33> Gah....
<cbx33> hehe :p
<ogra> i stay away from it as far as i can ...
<ogra> even though its sometimes not avoidable to touch it
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> why so
<cbx33> outta interest
<ogra> its ugly
<cbx33> last question I promise :)
<cbx33> you prefer C?
<ogra> i prefer python
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> me too
<ogra> C is a necessary evil
<cbx33> but the opengl stuff requires c
<cbx33> python is too dog slow
<ogra> anyway, lets stay on track :)
<cbx33> of course
<cbx33> sorry
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/anastacia.txt shows that edubuntu-docs is waition for a freindly archive-admin ;)
<ogra> *waiting
<cbx33> artwork? - Lisa is still working away....been very busy working with paid work
<ogra> i have to contact kwwii
<ogra> there was noting new from anywhere for artwork during the lsat weeks
<ogra> *lastz
<ogra> meh
<cbx33> you mean edubutnu or ubuntu ingeneral?
<ogra> edubuntu
<cbx33> kwwii told us that he may not have time to do edubuntu artwork at all
<cbx33> and he was going to mail us to confirm
<cbx33> then I was going to mail to you
<ogra> hmm, when was that ?
<ogra> he didnt tell me anything
<cbx33> well.....about a week ago
<cbx33> and he had a week to tell us
<ogra> i'll poke him then
<cbx33> but he hasn;t emailed lisa to say she has to take up all the flack
<ogra> i'll clearify it with him
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> any other artwork stuff ?
<cbx33> well
<cbx33> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuArtwork/Palette
<cbx33> but i don't think there is anything new
<ogra> oh,m is there new stuff ?
<ogra> ah
<cbx33> ahh yes
<cbx33> the greeny one
<cbx33> with the numbers
<cbx33> is from a community contributor in indonesia
<cbx33> lisa asked them to make some changes which they did
<ogra> i like it, but the people are to present for a default ...
<ogra> it makes it a bit restive
<ogra> but the number stuff is great
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> that's it for artwork
<ogra> ok
<cbx33> the book chapter is as far as I know with mako
<ogra> probably lisa could forward my comment about the number pic ?
<cbx33> sure
<ogra> it seems like a good one with some more changes ...
<cbx33> maybe lisa can look at incorping the number idea in a few
<cbx33> she did get pretty dispondant the other day
<cbx33> but i cheered her up
<ogra> ok
<ogra> Community & Documentation & Web
<ogra> anybody here to talk about that ?
* cbx33 whistles
<ogra> Management and Planning
<ogra> ?
* cbx33 changes to a different tune
<ogra> Any other Matters Arising
<ogra> ?
<cbx33> um
<cbx33> ogra rocks
<cbx33> thanks for all the hard work dude
<ogra> heh ... well ...
<cbx33> seems like our community is shrinking
<cbx33> well active community
<cbx33> IRC channel is growing
<ogra> i hope it will get a bit less in the future with a secongd dev ;)
* cbx33 too
<ogra> (who is not maintaining X :) )
<cbx33> meeting ajourned?
<ogra> going once
<ogra> going twice
<ogra> adjourned
<cbx33> gone
<ogra> indeed
<highvoltage> cheers
<ogra> thanks all
<highvoltage> i'll be more involved next time when i dont have a RL meeting at the same time
<highvoltage> bbl
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 08 Mar 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Mar 10:00 UTC: LoCo Team | 12 Mar 18:00 UTC: Derivative Team | 13 Mar 16:00 UTC: Forum Council | 13 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 14 Mar 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<btse> @schedule
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 08 Mar 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Mar 10:00: LoCo Team | 12 Mar 18:00: Derivative Team | 13 Mar 16:00: Forum Council | 13 Mar 20:00: Technical Board | 14 Mar 20:00: Edubuntu
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-03-08
<somerville32> @schedule atlantic
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Canada/Atlantic: 08 Mar 12:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Mar 07:00: LoCo Team | 12 Mar 15:00: Derivative Team | 13 Mar 13:00: Forum Council | 13 Mar 17:00: Technical Board | 14 Mar 17:00: Edubuntu
<mvo> @schedule berlin
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 08 Mar 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Mar 11:00: LoCo Team | 12 Mar 19:00: Derivative Team | 13 Mar 17:00: Forum Council | 13 Mar 21:00: Technical Board | 14 Mar 21:00: Edubuntu
<mooey> @schedule london
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/London: 08 Mar 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Mar 10:00: LoCo Team | 12 Mar 18:00: Derivative Team | 13 Mar 16:00: Forum Council | 13 Mar 20:00: Technical Board | 14 Mar 20:00: Edubuntu
<mooey> heh
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 11 Mar 10:00 UTC: LoCo Team | 12 Mar 18:00 UTC: Derivative Team | 13 Mar 16:00 UTC: Forum Council | 13 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 14 Mar 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
* tfheen pongs
<mdz> morning
<dholbach> hiya
* mvo is here
* kylem waves.
* asac is here as well
* bdmurray is here
<ogra> meh, i forgot my report ... but i'm here
<mdz> Keybuk,cjwatson: ping
<Keybuk> mdz: I'm missing two atm
<Riddell> hi
<Keybuk> missing one
<iwj> Oh here I am.
<Keybuk> no, not you :p
<kwwii> I am here
<Keybuk> pitti - haven't seen anything from him all afternoon
<mdz> seen cjwatson?
<Keybuk> yeah, he just ping'd out
<pitti> hi, sorry for being late
<heno> mdz: I just posted to the distro list about testing. I'd like to add that as an item to the meeting
<mdz> heno: ok, go ahead and edit the wiki page
<tkamppeter> hi
<heno> pre-beta-freeze ISO testing
<cjwatson_> hi, sorry about that, n-m decided to hate me
<mdz> cjwatson_: ok, everyone here on your side?
<cjwatson> missing BenC, rtg
<mdz> ok, we're already behind, let's get started
<cjwatson> BenC and rtg are still travelling so are excused
<mdz> cjwatson: they're both still traveling
<cjwatson> I'd forgotten that extended to today
<mdz> (Riddell) Are the changes needed for abbatoir's oem installer going to get in? If not should we try for a basic qt 4 port?
<cjwatson> I've been working on that today
<Riddell> question to cjwatson
<Riddell> ooh?
<cjwatson> should be done RSN; I'd like that to get in
<mdz> what is abbatoir's oem installer?
<Riddell> ok, excellent, we'll wait for that then
<cjwatson> oem doesn't see much testing until beta anyway, realistically
<cjwatson> mdz: it's a rework of the oem-config kde ui
<mdz> Riddell: is that all?
<Riddell> yes thanks
<mdz> (iwj) Is anyone doing regular rebuild testing ? autopkgtest could do this quite easily - atm I've explicitly disabled that by telling it to test the binaries from the archive rather than doing a build. Should I turn this on ? If I do it's not likely to go through the alphabet very fast but it will give us a chance to argue about what to do with the notifications.
<mdz> iwj: this is supposed to be provided by Canonical IS on a periodic basis; there's a rough outline of a process in the wiki
<iwj> There's also the question of whether we want to test the binaries actually in the archive, or ones built specially.
<pitti> would it be possible to do it the other way round?
<mdz> iwj: they set up a katie/wanna-build instance and use that
* mvo does semi-automatic install tests
<pitti> i. e. add autopkgtest to our already existing rebuild tests
<pitti> ?
<mdz> potentially, yes
<iwj> mdz: https://wiki.canonical.com/RebuildTestProcess ?
<tfheen_> there has been some recent trouble with the last couple rounds of rebuild testing, and it should ideally happen in a fairly tight timeframe.
<iwj> Sounds a bit ad-hoc.
<mdz> iwj: cf. "rough outline" above
<iwj> mdz: Right.
<iwj> pitti: That's a definite possibility, yes.
<mdz> I saw in #-devel that there is some doubt about whether the testing has begun?
<tfheen_> also, that process is just the interface, it's not how it's implemented.
<iwj> NB that autopkgtest tends to do it one package at a time; that wiki page seems to suggest a from-ground up rebuild of everything (from some known bootstrap?)
<iwj> mdz: I haven't been reading #-devel much today.
<mdz> tfheen_: right, that part needs to be provided by IS
<mdz> tfheen_: there was to have been a rebuild test on 8 Feb.
<mdz> did that happen?
<iwj> My cron job ran for the first time last night but basically no packages have tests so it's just makework.
<iwj> AFAIAA only dovecot and mawk have tests so far.
<tfheen_> mdz: last time I spoke with Adam (which admittedly is some time ago) the last round of rebuild testing happened, but I haven't actually gotten the results anywhere.
<mdz> iwj: how so?  is it not installing and uninstalling the packages and checking the results?
<mdz> tfheen_: it seems unlikely that nothing failed
<tfheen_> mdz: something is bound to have failed, I have just failed to get in touch with Adam.  I'll try again, this time cc-ing elmo.
<mdz> tfheen_: CC me as well
<tfheen_> sure
<iwj> mdz: Well, atm it has optimised out the install the package step since there aren't any tests.
<mdz> iwj: it should not do that
<iwj> I could change the command-line arguments to make it install the packages unconditionally.
<tfheen_> ACTION: tfheen to get rebuild test results, To: \infty; Cc: mdz, elmo
<mdz> installing the package is one of the most valuable tests of all, intrinsically
<iwj> mdz: Right.
<mvo> iwj: what scope do you currently test? main only?
<iwj> I think I should perhaps talk to the IS people about what these rebuild tests consist of ?
<mdz> and removal, too, since that isn't tested as often in the field
<iwj> mvo: Yes.
<tfheen_> basically having something like piuparts would be useful.
<iwj> mdz: Right.
<iwj> tfheen_: I haven't yet looked seriously at cannibalising piuparts (or indeed reimplementing it if that's quicker).
<iwj> But it would be a nice fit.
<mdz> someone ran piuparts over the archive a little while ago, and found a stack of failures
<mdz> the output was a bit difficult to work with though
<tfheen_> piuparts doesn't pay attention to dependencies, so cascading can easily give false positives.
<mdz> hrm
<tfheen_> (say x11-common isn't clean, anything depending on x11-common would be marked as unclean)
<mdz> oh, I see
<dholbach> http://www.nabble.com/FTBFS-and-piuparts-failures-lists-for-feisty-t3159699.html
<iwj> tfheen_: Ah.  I do have some tracking of what things might be responsible but it's probably not quite strong enough to avoid all consequetial false positives.
<ogra_> it also needs proper blacklisting ...
<mvo> I have some code as part of the auto-upgradetester that tests installability of large amounts of packages (basily testing a feisty->feisty upgrade)
<ogra_> ltsp-client isnt installable outside a chroot ... but puiparts tries it anyway ...
<mdz> mvo: oh, that's useful
<mdz> mvo: is that running in the DC yet?
<mvo> mdz: this one is pretty new, it runs on my machine currently
<mdz> mvo: but the regular upgrade test is in the DC now?
<mvo> mdz: but i plan to move it over soon
<mvo> mdz: yes, it runs regularly with hicups sometimes
<mvo> it was e.g. bitten by the xorg priority bug
<iwj> I haven't had a reply to my RT ticket about autopkgtest in the DC (not that surprising, since it was long and will involve some decisions).
<mdz> that's good
<mvo> endless loops in maintainer scripts currently need resolving by hand
* mvo needs to write some watchdog code for this
<Keybuk> iwj: what is the RT# ?
<mdz> I need to have a look through what's in RT
<mdz> ACTION: mdz to review RT queue
<iwj> Keybuk: 26993
<iwj> It's been err about a week.
<iwj> No, two.
<iwj> endless loops> kill the Xen VM :-).
<tfheen_> yeah, xen makes that a lot easier.
<mvo> iwj: I need to "borrow" the xen bits from you
<mdz> ok, so tollef is going to follow up regarding the rebuild test.  ready to move on?
<iwj> mvo: Sure, they don't need borrowing - there're two interfaces.
<mdz> cjwatson/bdmurray: outstanding actions?
<iwj> mdz: So the answer to my Q is no, I shouldn't do rebuild tests.  But I should do installs.
<cjwatson> mailed the list earlier regarding those
<mvo> iwj: lets talk about this offline :)
<iwj> mvo: Right.
<mdz> iwj: the answer is that they're supposed to happen by other means, but we need to reconfirm.  we may find that we need to do them ourselves somehow
<mdz> Riddell,tfheen_: KDE 4 in NEW?
<iwj> mdz: OK.  I'll not start doing them until someone tells me otherwise.
<mdz> Ubugtu: thanks
<iwj> ACTION: iwj to tell autopkgtest to install things even if they have no tests to run.
<cjwatson> bugsquad docs in UbuntuDevelopment are written (though still a bit rough; bdmurray had comments), I investigated 63175 a bit, talked with scott, and then scott asked mvo to do the rest
<mdz> Riddell: is that blocking anything for beta?
<Riddell> mdz: no, although libkexiv2 will (blocks new digikam)
<tfheen_> iwj: if we don't have better control of the rebuild tests for feisty+1, I would like us to do it internally.
<iwj> tfheen_: Right.
<mvo> cjwatson: I have no news on 63175 yet, sorry
<mdz> Riddell: and the new upgrader definitely needs to be in and tested for beta
<Riddell> I agree
<cjwatson> mvo: it was about an hour or two ago, that's fine ;-)
<pitti> (FYI, new KDE dist-upgrader is in edgy-proposed now)
<mvo> :)
<mdz> mvo: do you (have cycles to) test Kubuntu upgrades?
<tfheen_> there was a licence question about libkexiv2, but that has been resolved to my satisfaction now, so it just needs to be waved through.
<mvo> mdz: its on my list for sru-verification, I will do it this week
<Riddell> tfheen_: I didn't hear about that, looking forward to having it waved through
<pitti> mvo: NB that one 'works for me' is not enough for me in the KDE dist-upgrader case; I want at least ten different success reports
<tfheen_> Riddell: or rather, digikam, the jasper / jpeg2k patent issue.
<mvo> pitti: I have read that, I plan to be one of the ten :)
<Riddell> we have people in #kubuntu-testers eager to help testing it
<Riddell> tfheen_: oh, right yes
<mdz> should be straightforward to arrange testing now that it's in -proposed
<mdz> cjwatson: what's the final outcome on the ubiquity advanced partitioner for feisty?
<cjwatson> it's in, disk bar will have to wait 'til next time
<cjwatson> it's reasonably usable without, and certainly better than the old partitioner
<cjwatson> if necessary I'll work around problems with explanatory text
<mdz> doko/pitti: will the maintainer field changes be completed for beta?
<cjwatson> there's one bit of validation I need to add for beta, and some issues with formatting swap and such, but it's largely ok
<doko> mdz: yes
<pitti> mdz: yes, as long as doko finishes his rebuilds soon
<pitti> doko: what's your ETA?
<mdz> ok, good
<doko> pitti: doday
<doko> bah
<pitti> I need to do ~ 40 rebuilds
<mdz> pitti: is your livefs change request in RT?
<pitti> mdz: no, it's not
<pitti> I was going to ask who else can access this script
<mdz> pitti: I think it ought to be
<pitti> ok
<mdz> pitti: I expect that anyone with root can
<pitti> it started out with a simple 'yes, I'll do it later' change, sorry
<mdz> what we want for that is for the scripts to be in bzr
<mdz> so we can just ask for merges
<doko> door bell ...
<mdz> I need to put that in RT myself; didn't hear back the last time I emailed
<mdz> ACTION: mdz to file livefs->bzr issue in RT
<pitti> TBH I didn't make too much good experiences with RTing stuff
<mdz> kwwii: what are these new ooo icons?  something which fits better with everything else I hope?
<pitti> but I'll do it to get a number anyway
<kwwii> mdz: yeah, they are human on top of tango
<heno> the new ooo icons are sweet
<kwwii> mdz: really cool because we are the first ones to release them
<dholbach> mdz: they should be in the archive now - just start oowriter
<mdz> pitti: is restricted-manager on track for beta?  that's when it will see the most testing
<mdz> dholbach: I've had oowriter running for weeks ;-)
<pitti> mdz: today I got it to configure nvidia with a single click
<pitti> but I need someone with ATI to tell me the necessary steps
<mdz> very nice, I like the splash too
<tfheen_> mdz: iirc, the livefs.sh script is in baz.
<cjwatson> it is
<Keybuk> pitti: ATI shouldn't be hooked into the desktop effects button
<pitti> r-m itself works reasonably so far, but it needs desktop-effects integrations
<mdz> pitti: that's excellent
<pitti> Keybuk: but certainly r-m should be able to configure the fglrx driver?
<Keybuk> pitti: yup, definitely
<mdz> pitti: I'll be among the first to test that once it's in the archive; my desktop is now nvidia
<Keybuk> mdz: ouch, you have my sympathy
<pitti> Keybuk: I thought about sth. like a generric 'restricted-manager --check-for-better-driver'
<ogra_> poor boy
<mdz> pitti: this meeting would be a good place to ask for an ATI tester
<bdmurray> I have an ATI card
<mdz> I have an ATI chipset in my laptop, but it doesn't require fglrx
<mdz> I suppose I could still test though
<mvo> I have one in my laptop
<mdz> pitti: does it also support undoing its changes?
* ogra_ could only test with an r200 which si supported poorly by both drivers
<pitti> mvo: you are voluntold :)
<seb128> I can do testing on my desktop
<pitti> mdz: yes, if you disable the driver, you'll get back to the previous one
<asac> iirc i have ati in my laptop as welll ... i could use that for testing as it needs to be wiped anyway at some point.
<pitti> mdz: well, right now it's s/previous/nv for nvidia/
<ogra_> pitti, that also handles the fglrx mesa breakage ?
<pitti> ogra_: as I said, ATM it does not do *anything* to configure fglrx
<cjwatson> livefs> lamont.jones@canonical.com--2005-master/livecd-rootfs--mainline--0.27 in /home/warthogs/archives/lamont.jones@canonical.com--2005-master, AFAIK
<Keybuk> ogra appears to be volunteering to help :p
<mdz> pitti: I seem to recall the script for fglrx going missing or never quite being written
<ogra_> Keybuk, i'm willing to help testing :)
* pitti wonders where restricted-manager 0.3 went to -- I uploaded it hours ago
<tfheen_> cjwatson: the current one on the buildds should be extracted for comparison.
<mdz> cjwatson: that's obsolete; there are changes in production which aren't in revision control
<cjwatson> plausible
<mdz> that's what I heard from infinity
<Keybuk> pitti: it's published
<pitti> oh, indeed; ah, I only have the de. mirror for universe
<pitti> mdz: happy testing then
<mdz> pitti: it should be almost identical to nvidia
<mdz> swap drivers, install the GL libraries
<mdz> afaik, I've never used it
<mvo> IIRC there is some option that needs to be set for fglrx to make it work
<pitti> mdz: no magic driver options and such? anyway, I'll figure it out, plenty of testers above :)
<Keybuk> mdz: then curse about once a week when your X server dies at the worst possible moment :-/
<ogra_> mdz, ati doesnt work anymore as long as fglrx is installed ...
<mvo>     Option "Composite" "false"
<ogra_> fglrx replaces the GL lobs and hogs them
<ogra_> *libs
<pitti> mvo: that doesn't sound quite right for compiz OOTB :/
<ogra_> so you cant easily switch back and forth without uninstalling fglrx
<Keybuk> pitti: compiz doesn't work with fglrx
<pitti> ogra_: same with nvidia; r-m now installs the required packages
<pitti> and removes them again
<ogra_> ah, cool
<mdz> ogra_: nvidia is the same
<seb128> I'll likely use the no-tfp patch for compiz to make it work with fglrx
<bdmurray> Is there any good pretty desktop documentation?
<tfheen_> or we could rework the modules so r-m does the alternatives handling rather than nvidia-glx itself
<pitti> Keybuk: ah, that's why you only want nvidia integration into desktop-effects?
<mvo> pitti: the recipt I send you worked for install/remove?
<Keybuk> pitti: exactly
<pitti> Keybuk: good to know
<pitti> mvo: yup, works fine
<pitti> mvo: (recipe, btw)
<Keybuk> fglrx doesn't support the necessary bits to make composite and compositors work
<mdz> seb128: oh? interesting
<mdz> seb128: is that the same patch used in beryl?
<Keybuk> if your card is supported by the ati driver, it's always better than fglrx
<mdz> tfheen_: yes, in feisty+1 we're likely to want to have the drivers all preinstalled, but this is a good incremental step
<seb128> mdz: yes
<pitti> Keybuk: anyway, I think we should bundle this special knowledge into r-m and make the --check-for-composite-driver-whatever DTRT
<pitti> Keybuk: and just call this in d-e
<Keybuk> *nods*
<mdz> pitti: so I should wait for restricted-manager 0.3 and test that with desktop-effects?
<pitti> mdz: r-m 0.3 is in feisty, and as I said, it's not yet intertwined with desktop-effects; you have to start it from the menu so far
<mdz> pitti: oh, I thought you said you uploaded it but didn't see it enter the archive
<pitti> mdz: that was wrong, I looked at the German mirror
<mdz> ah
<pitti> I usually don't need universe crack of the minute
<mdz> heh
<mdz> ok, is there any other business for the meeting?
<ogra_> yes
<heno> iso testing
<ogra_> any word about SoC from our management or CTO ?
<ogra_> :)
<Riddell> doko said he was doing it
<cjwatson> I have something as well re launchpad downtime from kiko
<cjwatson> doko and Keybuk are handling SoC jointly
<doko> ogra_: doing that ...
<Keybuk> ogra: we're participating as usual; doko and I will be jointly managing it
<ogra_> Keybuk, doko thanks for taking it ! :)
<doko> Keybuk: let's schedule a phone call for tomorrow please
<mdz> they'll send out announcements when there is something to announce
<ogra_> i didnt know if we do it at all this time
<Keybuk> doko: jinx, just /msg'd you the same thing
<ogra_> there was no talking about it anywhere, thats why i asked
<mdz> (heno) We should do a round of ISO testing before beta freeze to flush out some bugs early. (see Testing/Matrix)
<Keybuk> ogra: it's only just been announced by Google
<heno> from my email to the distro list: We've decided to start beta testing early this cycle! The idea is to get
<heno> some ISO testing done before the beta freeze to flush out some bugs
<heno> before the release crunch.
<heno> ...
<heno> For the first (pre-beta-freeze) test cycle, please download daily images
<heno> in the period Friday-Monday, and test as you normally would with the
<heno> milestone candidates.
<ogra_> Keybuk, well, leslie is already pretty busy on the SoC list ;)
<mdz> it seems like a good idea to do a quick validation test before we freeze, so that we can chase out obvious bugs before we enter the beta release crunch
<Keybuk> ogra: really? she's supposed to be away this week <g>
<mdz> the idea is that we do this just like we do for beta/RC/final, with everyone doing a few test cases
<ogra_> haha
<mdz> so that the round of testing during the freeze goes more smoothly
<mdz> heno: so will you match people up with a set of test cases based on their hardware?
<heno> I've made a start here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Matrix
<mdz> oh, good
<heno> but it needs some feedback
<mdz> ACTION: everyone to confirm their test cases on Testing/Matrix
<mdz> heno: I don't think I'll be able to test WinFOSS this time around, since I'm not in the office (no windows at home)
<heno> That was one of my questions: who has windows? :)
<tfheen> I do, I guess I could do winfoss
<Riddell> I do
<ogra_> i have winfoss ... but no windows :)
<heno> and should I be testing all my own winfoss work? (is that good policy?)
<mdz> heno: if needed, we can certainly buy a couple of copies
<heno> ok, I can of course test, but should not be the only one
<heno> thanks Riddell, tfheen
<iwj> heno: You seem to have me down for amd64 but I don't have one.
<mdz> is everyone clear on the testing plan?  you should look at the matrix and make sure that you're capable of doing your test cases
<ogra_> i'll find people in the community for edubuntu winfoss ...
<heno> I'll shuffle things around a bit more
<mdz> heno: will you send out a pointer to the test candidate once it's in place?
<heno> yes
<mdz> ok, sounds good
<Keybuk> note: I've hassled mdy again about our vmware licences,
<Keybuk> no luck though
<heno> except this time there is no specific candidate iso
<heno> (but for beta, etc there will be)
<mdz> heno: hmm, I guess it's not strictly necessary
<heno> just 'a recent daily'
<mdz> to serve as a dry run for the testing process itself and distribution of test cases, and to chase out the obvious bugs
<tfheen_> noting down which version you're testing is still useful, though.
<mdz> Keybuk: who's lacking?
<asac> i am not really sure about all test cases ... erase disk for instance :/
<mdz> asac: as it's a rather popular one with real users, it does need to be thoroughly tested
<heno> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/InstallMethods
<mdz> if hardware is the issue, we can discuss that
<heno> That needs fleshing out too
<asac> probably should get an extra disk i guess
<ogra_> hmm, heno whats the DVD winfoss testcase for the edubuntu add-on CD ?
<heno> with more detailed instructions for each test
<mdz> heno: should probably refer to Testing/Short
<ogra_> cjwatson, do we build a DVD from the add-on stuff ?
<heno> ogra_: don't know, is there no such thing?
<ogra_> not afaik
<Keybuk> mdz: everyone, but you who bought one yourself
<heno> mdz: right, I'll merge and clean up
<cjwatson> ogra_: add-on should be included in the regular DVD; no pointt building a separate one
<iwj> asac: Get one of those removeable caddy drive tray things.
<ogra_> but i might be wrong, thats why i ask cjwatson
<iwj> Or just open the box :-).
<cjwatson> Keybuk: I have my own as well
<asac> iwj: yeah :)
<Keybuk> mdz: the ones on the ISVLicences page have all expired, as they were issued incorrectly by vmware
<heno> ACTION: heno to improve ISO testing documentation
<ogra_> cjwatson, so i assume there is no winfoss on the DVD, is there ?
<mdz> Keybuk: I need to talk to mdy about something else, will ask him about that as well
<cjwatson> ogra_: hmm, probably not at the moment but that's actually a bug
<ogra_> oh, ok
<mdz> ACTION: mdz to ask mdy about vmware licenses
<cjwatson> ogra_: feel free to check and file it
<pitti> asac: having two HDs in the computer is nice anyway for distributing access etc.
<ogra_> so itws a valid testcase then, thanks
<cjwatson> door, brb
<heno> ogra_: I was in doubt about the new edubuntu images, please make corrections
<asac> pitti: I alrady have two :) ... still need to sort things out and maybe get a third
<mdz> ok, it sounds like we're fairly clear on the pre-testing procedure
<ogra_> heno, will do, to be honest i havent tested any DVD yet
<mdz> any other business for the meeting?
<cjwatson> yes
<bdmurray> I was curious about bug 75681
<cjwatson> kiko asks whether they can take lp down early tomorrow morning
<bdmurray> cjwatson: is that UTC?
<tfheen_> I'm fine with that, given that I'm on vac tomorrow.
<mdz> I get a server error on https://launchpad.net/bugs/75681
* mvo gets it too
<bdmurray> whoops, all of lp seems to be down now
<iwj> It seems broken.
<cjwatson> launchpad is falling over and they think postgresql 8.2 will improve things
<bdmurray> it is about a boot-time race condition with mdadm
* dholbach starts hacking bughelper--LP-timeout--support
<mdz> bdmurray: email the list about it instead I guess
<seb128> <kiko> *** We're doing some online maintenence work on Launchpad -- the site will be slow and unstable for a few minutes ***
<iwj> bdmurray: I'm probably the person to talk to about that.
<mdz> bdmurray: ubuntu-devel, even
<cjwatson> they say the downtime will be 7:30-9:30 UTC; if it's not then, then the next window would be 4:30 UTC on Saturday, but they don't want to hold off until then if they can avoid it
<iwj> I'd be quite keen to chat real-time with a user who has the symptoms.
<cjwatson> I asked if it could be earlier in the morning tomorrow, but apparently not
<bdmurray> iwj: The submitter is kees and I have the symptoms too
<mdz> that time is OK with me
<cjwatson> so I said I'd bring it up here as it affects most of us in Europe
<iwj> bdmurray: Excellent :-).  (err)
<iwj> bdmurray: Talk after the meeting ?
<bdmurray> iwj: sounds good
<mdz> it sounds like an urgent situation
<cjwatson> any objections, speak now or forever hold your peace
<heno> == LP meeting report ==
<heno> There was some discussion about the recent performance issues and oopses. They are investigating oopsec reports and system logs. No conclusions yet. One theory is the translation timeouts are hogging server CPU, in which case that will pass.
<Keybuk> cjwatson: do they have to wait until then? :p
<cjwatson> hah
<heno> just though I'd post that
<heno> seemed relevant
<cjwatson> 16:32 <kiko> well, we could do it at 4:30 UTC saturday, BUT, it means that a) launchpad will still be slow until at least then and b) the poimport script, required to opening feisty translations, will not run until then.
<cjwatson> 16:32 <kiko> I would much prefer doing it tomorrow
<cjwatson> 16:35 <cjwatson> I'll ask in the meeting
<mdz> heno: thanks
<cjwatson> ok, I'm hearing no objections, so I'll tell kiko yes
<mdz> right
<mdz> cjwatson: please mark the distro-team calendar as well
<mdz> ...and that's our time
<mdz> thanks, everyone
<mdz> adjourned
<pitti> thanks everyone
<asac> thanks
<cjwatson> mdz: done
<dholbach> thanks
<kwwii> thanks
<ogra> thanks
<seb128> thank you
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 11 Mar 10:00 UTC: LoCo Team | 12 Mar 18:00 UTC: Derivative Team | 13 Mar 16:00 UTC: Forum Council | 13 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 14 Mar 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 15 Mar 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-03-09
<juliux> @schedule berlin
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 11 Mar 11:00: LoCo Team | 12 Mar 19:00: Derivative Team | 13 Mar 17:00: Forum Council | 13 Mar 21:00: Technical Board | 14 Mar 21:00: Edubuntu | 15 Mar 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<Klaidas> @schedule VIlnius
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Vilnius: 11 Mar 12:00: LoCo Team | 12 Mar 20:00: Derivative Team | 13 Mar 18:00: Forum Council | 13 Mar 22:00: Technical Board | 14 Mar 22:00: Edubuntu | 15 Mar 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<btse> @schedule
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 11 Mar 10:00: LoCo Team | 12 Mar 18:00: Derivative Team | 13 Mar 16:00: Forum Council | 13 Mar 20:00: Technical Board | 14 Mar 20:00: Edubuntu | 15 Mar 21:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<sid> @schedule New_York
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/New_York: 11 Mar 06:00: LoCo Team | 12 Mar 14:00: Derivative Team | 13 Mar 12:00: Forum Council | 13 Mar 16:00: Technical Board | 14 Mar 16:00: Edubuntu | 15 Mar 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-03-11
<effie_jayx> @schedule caracas
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Caracas: 11 Mar 06:00: LoCo Team | 12 Mar 14:00: Derivative Team | 13 Mar 12:00: Forum Council | 13 Mar 16:00: Technical Board | 14 Mar 16:00: Edubuntu | 15 Mar 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<beuno> @schedule buenos_aires
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Argentina/Buenos_Aires: 11 Mar 07:00: LoCo Team | 12 Mar 15:00: Derivative Team | 13 Mar 13:00: Forum Council | 13 Mar 17:00: Technical Board | 14 Mar 17:00: Edubuntu | 15 Mar 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<beuno> no way I'm going to make that meeting  :p
<effie_jayx> beuno,  lol... it is an hour later from my time
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: LoCo Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 12 Mar 18:00 UTC: Derivative Team | 13 Mar 16:00 UTC: Forum Council | 13 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 14 Mar 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 15 Mar 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<elkbuntu> ok, who is here for the meeting?
<Mirv> o/
<Mirv> and that's it? :)
<elkbuntu> seems so
<Mirv> I had the hosting server problem, but got a reply from Jono already stating that it's a sysadmin issue. I would just have liked to hear some thoughts.
<elkbuntu> well, i dont think we're going to get much discussion on that.
<Mirv> I'm getting somewhat used to that...
<elkbuntu> Mirv, that's uncalled for. nobody within the locos would be able to help you. jono is aware, and he can make others aware. that's all you can do.
<daviey> no agenda?
<elkbuntu> daviey, there is.. at the usual place. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamMeeting
<Mirv> elkbuntu: Jono said he can't do anything, so basically I guess he doesn't have too much of contacts in the sysadmins. basically I hoped that maybe community members had some idea if some other hosting solution should be though of, as unfortunately I can't do much else towards Canonical than what I've done.
<Mirv> well, if there's nothing better to do, I had actually prepared a list of issues we are facing. they can be logged in the meeting logs...
<Mirv> 1. The server has been slow ever since we moved from smurf's server to the new one.
<elkbuntu> Mirv, newz2000 is the only one i know of that has powers with the server
<Mirv> 2. The server is currently usable, but only because the apache is restarted every 30 minutes to reduce swapping. The restart interval has been shortened all the time (starting from no restarts). The apache does not always manage to start itself again.
<Mirv> 3. The server is using Ubuntu 5.10, security support for which is ending in a month. No information about upgrading has been received, and it would probably result in a downtime, just around Feisty release.
<Mirv> 4. There are no backups made, and complete backups cannot be made by me without asking someone to change MoinMoin Data permissions each time.
<Mirv> 5. The users are disappointed by the lack of resources at Canonical, but surely this is not to blame anyone because everyone is working hard. Especially Matthew Nuzum has been extremely helpful all this time, despite his huge workload, but he cannot bring in the new server, the only real solution to the problem, even if he wanted to. The others have been virtually unreachable on the subject.
<Mirv> elkbuntu: yes, he's the one who is keeping us alive, but he can't do anything else beside configuration
<elkbuntu> Mirv, i posted on the mailing list and mentioned several times in the channel that there is a page to list such things on. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoReview
<elkbuntu> it is from this page that i will be constructing specs to be considered at the next UDS
<Mirv> elkbuntu: thanks, I will add information also there. one problem is that we might not be alive until the next UDS.
<elkbuntu> that's an incredibly defeatest view
<Mirv> elkbuntu: I'm sorry if it sounds too negative, but the problems are starting to be so severe that people can't discuss in the forms, and if the security support ends in a few weeks I don't know what can happen. also if the server dies there are usually no recent backups.
<elkbuntu> i am going to PM you an email address of someone who *might* be able to help you out. He usually helps out unofficial projects with web services, but he is not canonical supported or funded, so cannot be relied on to solve all canonicals problems
<Mirv> elkbuntu: but Matthew has one more thing he's trying to configure, my hope is that it will help
<Mirv> elkbuntu: ok, thank you. I'll also discuss with newz2000 next week.
<elkbuntu> this is all i can do for you, sorry
<Mirv> I think that's enough of that subject, one thing in my mind is to ask ubuntu-eu.org if in crisis
<Mirv> elkbuntu: no problem, I appreciate every bit of help we get to solve the problem(s)
<elkbuntu> does anyone else present have any issues to bring up?
<effie_jayx> elkbuntu,  I have an issue. Has a decision been made about using the ubuntu wiki for docmentation for languages that are not in English?
<elkbuntu> effie_jayx, not at this point. no.
<effie_jayx> elkbuntu,  thanks
<elkbuntu> anyone else?
<tsmithe> sorry elkbuntu
<elkbuntu> unfortunately, we do not have critical mass to cover the agenda items, so im calling this meeting to an end.
<Mirv> ok, thanks for the short meeting. added the hosting problems to the end of the LoCoReview page.
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 12 Mar 18:00 UTC: Derivative Team | 13 Mar 16:00 UTC: Forum Council | 13 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 14 Mar 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 15 Mar 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 16 Mar 10:00 UTC: MOTU Council
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
<sid> @schedule
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 12 Mar 18:00: Derivative Team | 13 Mar 16:00: Forum Council | 13 Mar 20:00: Technical Board | 14 Mar 20:00: Edubuntu | 15 Mar 21:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 16 Mar 10:00: MOTU Council
<sid> @schedule New_York
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/New_York: 12 Mar 14:00: Derivative Team | 13 Mar 12:00: Forum Council | 13 Mar 16:00: Technical Board | 14 Mar 16:00: Edubuntu | 15 Mar 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 16 Mar 06:00: MOTU Council
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-03-03
<stgraber> moin
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Mar 07:00 UTC: Platform Team | 05 Mar 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 08 Mar 11:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Mar 07:00 UTC: Platform Team | 05 Mar 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 08 Mar 11:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers | 12 Mar 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 19 Mar 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 26 Mar 21:00 UTC: Server Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-03-05
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Platform Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Mar 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 08 Mar 11:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers | 12 Mar 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 19 Mar 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 26 Mar 21:00 UTC: Server Team
<calc> hello
 * ArneGoetje waves
 * slangasek waves
 * Hobbsee waves, and hands out obligatory coffee
<Hobbsee> (the drips, not the cup variety)
<cjwatson> morning
<doko> good morning
<cjwatson> I've just gone for the cup, I'm afraid
 * slangasek percolates
 * TheMuso waves.
 * ogra fumbles for matches to keep eyes open ... to even find the coffee on the table
<cjwatson> bryce was ill yesterday, which is still today for him, so I don't expect to see him
<evand> hi
 * TheMuso goes for the water, unless its very cold, then he goes for the cup.
<cjwatson> so just waiting for asac
<cjwatson> will wait one more minute
<ogra> cjwatson, sorry, no report yet, i was smart enough to dd something to /dev/sda instead of /dev/sdd yesterday afternoon ... :( sda is a member of my raid1 while sdd is my usb stick ....
<cjwatson> oops!
<ogra> at least i had a week old backup about 4am i had it played back ....
 * ogra votes for distinct names for usb sticks in the future
<cjwatson> I found my fingers typing 'dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda' rather than 'dd if=/dev/zero of=alt.img' yesterday and was glad that (a) I didn't press Enter (b) I hadn't put sudo on the front
<ogra> heh, i did both
<cjwatson> ok, let's start, asac can catch up when he arrives
<ogra> no big damage done though just took lots of time
<cjwatson>  * Actions from last week
<cjwatson>   * scim-bridge testing results?
<calc> i've done rm -rf ~ (hit enter before completing the path), that was painful
<cjwatson> that was asac and ogra IIRC
<TheMuso> ogra: I *think* its called lack of sleep. :p
<ogra> TheMuso, no, thats how i'm feeling right now after 3h of sleep this night :P
<slangasek> ogra: clearly it should be corporate policy to not give Canonical employees root on their systems, to avoid such mishaps
<ogra> lol
<cjwatson> ogra: did you get a chance to test scim-bridge for dead-key support last week?
<ArneGoetje> I didn't receive any feedback for dead-key support under scim-bridge... but some users' feedback in some LP bugs suggest that it works for them... so I decided to go for scim-bridge anyways.
<ogra> i tried it once and didnt find any difference to the normal behavior ... but note that i still have an xorg.conf from the gutsy that was installed, not sure that has any influence
<cjwatson> keyboard handling is one of the few things that has not changed much in xorg.conf
<cjwatson> so that sounds ok
<ogra> yeah, but i dont know if scim changed :)
<ogra> so i mentioned it
<cjwatson> ArneGoetje: I mentioned something related in /msg, but I think you may have missed it
<cjwatson> 08:49 <cjwatson> installing im-switch at the moment will cause scim to be started for everyone, AFAICS
<cjwatson> 08:49 <cjwatson> even those not in a CJK locale
<ArneGoetje> correct.
<cjwatson> perhaps im-switch should put 'default' below 'none' for all_ALL?
<cjwatson> it sounds like it won't break anything (from the testing above), but also seems inefficient?
<cjwatson> (but if there's a good reason not to do that, I'll back down)
<ArneGoetje> 'default' seems to disable scim, because the envirenment variables are empty in that configuration.
<ogra> i wonder if scim by default couldnt solve our kbd issues with x
<ogra> afaik thats one of the reasons we still keep an xorg.conf for
<ArneGoetje> ogra: which kbd issues?
<ogra> it seems to handle non CJK setups just fine
<slangasek> (well, I know one problem it doesn't solve is oversized CDs... :)
<cjwatson> ArneGoetje: oh. I apologise, I was looking at my local configuration and assuming it's the default
<ArneGoetje> cjwatson: common mistake ;)
<ArneGoetje> cjwatson: in fact the im-switch setup is not as straight forward as it could be...
<ogra> ArneGoetje, Xorg can wonderfully work without xorg.conf nowadays ... we keep a config file because we have no sane way of handling keymaps and mice yet
<cjwatson> ogra: input hotplug needs some more work than that, I think
<cjwatson> Timo tried the obvious hal approach and it broke for him
<ogra> but scim seems o be there already
<ogra> *to
<ogra> (i dont talk about hardy :) )
<cjwatson> scim doesn't do generalised keyboard layout handling, just specialised CJK-type things
<cjwatson> ok, I'll add im-switch to desktop at the next opportunity on Arne's behalf, then; it's tiny
<ArneGoetje> thanks
<cjwatson>  * Alpha-6 status
<ArneGoetje> question remains:
<cjwatson> ... I gather size may be relevant here ...
<ArneGoetje> should scim be enabled or disabled by default for all_ALL?
<cjwatson> my vote is for disabled
<ArneGoetje> currently it's enabled
<ogra> can you select by locale ?
<cjwatson> ArneGoetje: but as you said above all_ALL points to 'default' by default, which doesn't start scim
<cjwatson> ogra: that is the default
 * asac appears
<ArneGoetje> cjwatson: I'll have to do some checks on im-switch... fact is that scim-bridge now has highest priority... where the actual link to enable scim is set, I'll need to find out.
<cjwatson> slangasek: ^-- alpha-6 status?
<ogra_> alternate looks good from what i tested (beyond being oversized)
<calc> ooo has now built with lzma on all archs but powerpc (some weird buildd error there afaict)
<slangasek> in terms of installability and bug count, we're looking pretty good for alpha-6; thanks to everyone for their diligence at squashing those milestoned bugs
<ogra_> edubuntu-addon as well (works without net connection now, yay)
<cjwatson> I was impressed with the alpha-6 bug list when I glanced at it yesterday
<calc> ooo-l10n is currently building with lzma as well
<slangasek> there are still a few bugs listed on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/hardy-alpha-6 that could use some attention; most of the remaining bugs are not actually blockers for alpha-6 so I'll be moving them around later this evening, but everything there is at least high-priority for release
<cjwatson> it's probably time to start gardening the targeted-to-hardy bug list too
<slangasek> as ogra notes, there are some size issues currently with the images - we have about half a dozen packages newly seeded on the Ubuntu liveCD since alpha-5, for instance, and between that and the death-of-a-thousand-cuts growth of individual packages, we're hurting to get the images down to size
<slangasek> because we've already pruned almost all of the language packs in earlier alphas, leaving us with almost nothing left to prune in that department right now(!)
<slangasek> mvo has already helped out with this last night by shrinking one of the new packages for me, but if anyone can think of changes they've made since alpha-5 that are costing us space and that we might be able to squeeze more space out of, that would be helpful
<slangasek> otherwise I'm going to see what I can do with the langpacks still
<ogra_> slangasek, artwork ?
<ogra_> my new wallpaper says its 3.5M big
<TheMuso> Mousetweaks has been added, but I think its small. I shall investigate however...
<slangasek> and yes, at this point the targeted-to-hardy bug list also includes a number of bugs we should be working on in parallel: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+bugs
<ogra_> (compared to 900k or so with the defaults we had before)
<slangasek> ogra_: I don't mean to take up the meeting with brainstorming; I'm around for several hours after the meeting, we can take this up out-of-band
<ogra_> indeed
<slangasek> cjwatson: that's it for my report
<cjwatson> sounds like today is going to be a weight-watchers day for Ubuntu
<cjwatson> ok, thanks Steve
<cjwatson> any other business?
<TheMuso> I've had another idea that could give us 1.2MB of space back.
<slangasek> (more like Slim-Fast, I think :)
 * TheMuso will take to devel
<slangasek> no other business for me
<calc> sorry my router ate itself
<calc> i can't see anything, is the meeting still going on?
<evand> calc: yes, we're on AOB
<cjwatson> we're on "Colin had thought it was done and wasn't paying attention" :-)
<slangasek> heh :)
<cjwatson> adjourned, thanks all
<slangasek> thanks :)
<evand> haha
<evand> thanks
<ArneGoetje> thanks
<TheMuso> thanks folks.
<calc> goodnight everyone
<asac> thx
<Ziroday> @schedule Singapore
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Mar 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 08 Mar 11:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers | 12 Mar 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 19 Mar 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 26 Mar 21:00 UTC: Server Team
<nand> hi!
 * ogasawara waves
<heno> hey
 * stgraber waves
<Iulian> Hi
<liw> yo
<bdmurray> greetings
<heno> ok, let's start
<heno> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 19:03. The chair is heno.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<heno> agenda https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
<heno> First, welcome all :)
<heno> [TOPIC] Kernel bug migration update (bug day tomorrow)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel bug migration update (bug day tomorrow)
<davmor2> lo
<ogasawara> I've been going through the High/Critical bugs for the older kernels
<heno> I put that on the agenda so ogasawara would have a target for the high/critical migration
<heno> :)
<heno> how is it going?
<ogasawara> I've got maybe 50 or so left to look at so I imagine I'll have it all wrapped up by end of the week
<heno> cool!
<heno> I see the plan is prepared for tomorrow
<ogasawara> yup, so we should get extra help from the hug day tomorrow too
<heno> ogasawara: anything else on that topic?
<ogasawara> heno:  nope, I think we're good
<heno> [TOPIC] Past week's bug day summary: g-s-t and HAL
<MootBot> New Topic:  Past week's bug day summary: g-s-t and HAL
<heno> the g-s-t bug day ran out of bugs it looks like :)
<heno> and I guess pitti has been running a 1-man HAL bug day today
<heno> ok, next
<heno> [TOPIC] Desktop testing KVM images - instructions for download and use - liw
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop testing KVM images - instructions for download and use - liw
<liw> I've made some packages of the automated desktop testing stuff, and a KVM/qemu image that can be used to run them
<liw> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Automation/KVM and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Automation/Desktop have some further details
<liw> I'd be grateful if a couple of people could check that those things work for them
<liw> there's only one set of tests right now, but now that all the packaging infrastructure is there, I can easily add more, and will be doing that in the near future
<stgraber> I'm downloading at the moment
<nand> liw: I'll test this WE
<heno> liw: the pages look very good, thanks
 * heno downloads as well
<stgraber> people.u.c seems overloaded :) downloading at only 300k/s
<heno> liw: how shall we report feedback? email, or will you set up bugtracking on LP?
<davmor2> I'll have a look latter when all the images have re-downloaded again :)
<liw> feedback to me via e-mail to start with
<heno> ok
<liw> lars@ubuntu.com that is
<heno> [TOPIC] Alpha 6 ISO testing
<MootBot> New Topic:  Alpha 6 ISO testing
<heno> davmor2, stgraber: anything scary so far?
<stgraber> I haven't started testing yet
<stgraber> we had a broken OOo
<heno> yeah
<stgraber> I have updated the tracker with a fixed download info box
<heno> kde4 seems to work, which is cool
<stgraber> and updated the testcases
<stgraber> adding Kubuntu-KDE4, Wubi and modifying Edubuntu
<heno> some of the testcases will need some updating too
<davmor2> OO.o screwed up testing having to re-download now.  On the whole Kubuntu has been okay couple of minor things but that's it
<bdmurray> did the wubi test cases get written?
<heno> bdmurray: sort of
<stgraber> bdmurray: yes by heno and xivulon
<heno> there is room for improvement ...
<stgraber> xivulon updated it a bit this morning IIRC
<heno> davmor2 and i will look more at test cases on Saturday I guess
<heno> (at the Oxford testing mini sprint)
<davmor2> Indeed :)
<bdmurray> One thing I was thinking about was the importance of capturing the right files when people are testing
<heno> ooh, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cases/Wubi actually looks decent now!
<heno> yay xivulon!
<bdmurray> I mean getting the complete information right away
<heno> bdmurray: a script that just vacuums up a bunch of could-be-useful log files perhaps?
<heno> with dedicated test installs I don't think we have to worry too much about privacy
<bdmurray> heno: maybe, I don't have an answer was just thinking about.  do we have documentation about how to get files off a live cd?
<heno> so we could put 'wget script; script' on a wiki page and ask people to use that
<heno> just for ubiquity AFAIK
<heno> you mean in case of missing network and so on?
<stgraber> we can use pastebin and my pastebinit package if the files aren't too long (as pastebins are usually limited)
<heno> or tgz and attach it to a wiki page
<bdmurray> heno: right, the process of getting the files off.  its easy if you are at the desktop but the other ways might not be well documented
<heno> indeed, I don't think they are
<heno> lots of info in individual bug comments
<heno> getting files from busybox, photographing the screen, etc
<bdmurray> right, that's what I was thinking of
<heno> ok, let's add some info here as we think of different techniques https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/CollectingLogs
<heno> so ISO testing for a6 continues ...
<heno> [TOPIC] Brainstorm status - fixing bugs, writing use documentation, seeking dev and moderator participation
<MootBot> New Topic:  Brainstorm status - fixing bugs, writing use documentation, seeking dev and moderator participation
<nand> well, for now I'm pleased with the website
<heno> The launch seems to have gone extremely well!
<nand> good idea turnout
<stgraber> 3389 ideas and 11234 users !!!
<nand> the new front page ordering seems very efficient
<heno> we also have 10-12 moderators signed up and some developers
<nand> Now the next target is the handling of duplicates
<nand> especially preventing them
<heno> stgraber: any idea on how many active ideas? (non-deleted, non-dupes)
<nand> with a ajax system like ubuntuforums.org && LP
<nand> Yep, I should also add a stat page soon :)
<heno> nand: that strikes me as a big task
<nand> heno: Noo, I can do it in one day
<stgraber> heno: I have a fresh DB dump here so I probably can tell you that with a bit of SQL
<nand> The architecture behind QAPoll is pretty clean :)
<heno> great
<heno> also, please help improve https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Brainstorm
<bapoumba> may I have a question about duplicates handeling ?
<heno> it's now linked from the front page
<nand> bapoumba: yes?
<bapoumba> how to deal with duplicates of duplicates ?
<nand> heno: I've seen, yes, nice howto!
<nand> bapoumba: the main idea cumulates the votes of all its duplicate. And by cumulate, I mean smartly cumulate
<bapoumba> say A is reported as dup of B which is already a dup of C
<nand> i.e. if one user vote +1 for two dups, only one +1 will be counted
<nand> bapoumba: I'll add soon a list of all the duplicate at any level (dup, dup of dupe) on the idea page
<bapoumba> okay :)
<heno> I think the dup system should not block on bug or spec links
<heno> they should be carried forward also when duping
<nand> A problem I have noticed:
<heno> we are losing some links ATM
<nand> it's no so easy
<nand> because often bad bugreport or bad spec are linked
<nand> old, non revelant
<nand> and thus it influences baldy on the status
<stgraber> nand: What's the 'status' for deleted ideas ?
<heno> yes, this may need a documentation-solution
<nand> E.g. an idea is marked as "worked in progress" whereas it is not
<nand> stgraber: the SQL number?
<stgraber> nand: yep
<nand> check qapoll.install, it's documented
<nand> -2 IIRC
<heno> ie. the moderators need to move some links around
<nand> Personaly I often check and update the attachments, and this should be asked to the moderators too
<stgraber> qawebsite=> SELECT count(id) FROM qapoll_choice WHERE duplicatenumber='-1' AND status!='-2';
<stgraber>  count
<stgraber> -------
<stgraber> heno: ^
<stgraber>   2245
<stgraber> (1 row)
<nand> sot that's the number of non-deleted and non-dup ideas
<nand> stgraber: the nb of dup please?
<stgraber> 578
<stgraber> 326 deleted
<heno> that seems like roughly sensible numbers
<nand> oh, well pleased with the nb of dups
<heno> most of that was Jose's spam
<heno> any other topics?
<bdmurray> I've made some progress with markus's help on yesterday's bugs
<bdmurray> http://people.ubuntu.com/~brian/reports/yesterday/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~brian/reports/yesterday/
<bdmurray> The report shows all the new bugs reported yesterday
<bdmurray> My thought was we'd try to drive it to 0
<bdmurray> I've added the sourcepackge like we discussed earlier and it is phenomenally faster
<heno> sounds very good
<heno> it would be cool to have a graph of the number over time
<heno> yesterdays bugs three days ago, etc :)
<bdmurray> heno: with the number "resetting" every day?
<heno> btw, 130085 is likely now from yesterday
<heno> bdmurray: how exactly do you define yesterday?
<heno> just the previous date from when the script runs?
<bdmurray> yes
<heno> ok
<bdmurray> so at 00:00 UTC it'll be 0 I think
<heno> ok, how often does it update?
<heno> it should run at 23.50 then really
<bdmurray> er, that's not true it'll be whatever the total reported on the 5th was
<bdmurray> it runs every 10 minutes at the moment
<heno> assuming it runs once a day - ah, ok
<heno> so you want to drive it to 0 in real time each day?
<bdmurray> so if we go triage some of those the report will be shorter in ~10 minutes
<bdmurray> right
<heno> I get it now, cool
<heno> sounds like a powerful tool
<heno> can we do a bug day with it to introduce it to people?
<heno> seems suitable for 5-a-day also
<heno> bdmurray: ^ bug day?
<bdmurray> bug day: probably - one concern I have is covering such a wide variety of packages though.  I feel the same way about apport-bug tagged bugs, but we could try it and see what happens
<stgraber> liw: is your screen 1600x1200 ? :)
<bdmurray> 5-a-day: right, just another entry point for finding "fresh" bugs
<heno> and Finnish tz :)
<liw> stgraber, 1680x1050 actually... the kvm image uses a too-big screen?
<liw> heno, and Finnish keyboard, too, actually
<liw> not sure how to solve that one
<stgraber> liw: well, I have a 1680x1050 screen too but qemu started with 1600x1200 for usplash
<heno> I'll send you a UK keyboard :)
<liw> stgraber, yeah, it does that
<liw> stgraber, I've no idea why
<heno> we can take this to #ubuntu-testing
<heno> I think we are done
<heno> 3
<nand> oh my.. And i have 1024x768...
<heno> 2
<heno> 1
<nand> boom!
<heno> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 19:50.
<heno> thanks everyone!
<heno> oh, anyone care to do a summary? :-D
<heno> I still suck at that :(
<heno> nope, ok. I'll take it
<RichEd> who's here for the edubuntu meeting ?
<LaserJock> anybody around for Edubuntu meeting?
<pygi> LaserJock, me me
<LaserJock> so, this is like the most exciting meeting ever ;-)
<stgraber> yes :)
<stgraber> anyone actually has something to say/ask ? :)
<stgraber> only note from my side : iTalc has been promoted to Main !!!
<pygi> oh noes!
<pygi> the windows app in main!
<stgraber> well, I and upstream have no problem with you rewriting the UI in GTK :)
<stgraber> some parts are already moving to a separate lib
<LaserJock> stgraber: what is it written in?
<stgraber> C++
<pygi> stgraber, you mean I should rewrite entire app? xD
<stgraber> pygi: well, yeah :)
<pygi> stgraber, you're no fun at all!
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Server Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 08 Mar 11:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers | 12 Mar 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 19 Mar 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 26 Mar 21:00 UTC: Server Team
<zul> afternoon
<mathiaz> hello !
<faulkes-> that it is
<sommer> what up all
<dendrobates> \o/
 * jdstrand waves
<kirkland> howdy
<soren> o/
<faulkes-> I think we are good to go
<mathiaz> so - let's get started !
<mathiaz> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 21:00. The chair is mathiaz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<faulkes-> lead away mathiaz
<mathiaz> Today's agenda can be found online: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
<mathiaz> Previous meeting: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20080227
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] forum reporting
<MootBot> New Topic:  forum reporting
<faulkes-> ok then
<mathiaz> anything to add or disscuss on the forum front faulkes- ?
<faulkes-> yes
<mathiaz> I think you've published the code on LP
<faulkes-> I did a complete rewrite of the code and published it to LP
<faulkes-> https://launchpad.net/forumstats/
<mathiaz> faulkes-: great - do you have some documentation somewhere ?
<faulkes-> it is much more exact in the nature of how it selects and adds stuff
<faulkes-> there is a README file supplied with the source
<faulkes-> and I have documented the source as well, it's only about 120 lines long
<mathiaz> faulkes-: great. So what's the next step ?
<mathiaz> faulkes-: do you want to add more features to it ?
<faulkes-> the next step is linking the individual graphs and categories, to being able to see the individual posts
<mathiaz> faulkes-: or should we think about what we can do with the outcome ?
<faulkes-> which should be fairly easy to do, I have been very busy the last week with pm course exams and taking on a new FT position
<faulkes-> the outcome, is more a time based situation, I will also add in the ability to select by date
<mathiaz> faulkes-: ok. Seems great.
<faulkes-> because the posts affecting something from time X to time Y, may be unrelated due to version from time Z to time L
<owh> faulkes-: Is there a way to host the current branch so it can display results?
<owh> As in, be "live"
<faulkes-> that may be possible but it would require access to my database
<faulkes-> if you want to host one yourself, you can run the code completely independent of me
<faulkes-> and allow it to gather stats
<faulkes-> the requirements are listed in the README for running it
<owh> Does the code have a means to generate a database as well?
<faulkes-> there is sql files included in the LP branch
<owh> Cool.
<faulkes-> the README has instructions regarding them
<owh> Excellent, documentation that actually helps :)
<mathiaz> How is the classification of post done ?
<mathiaz> faulkes-: I think this is the trickiest part
<faulkes-> classification is done via a dictionary
<faulkes-> unfortunately, that means building the dictionary
<faulkes-> I have included the one which is currently used
<mathiaz> faulkes-: ok - is there a way to reassign posts to a different category if they've been misclassifed ?
<faulkes-> so, if you wanted to use the code to monitor say, Desktop forum, you would need to build your own
<faulkes-> mathiaz: currently no, that would be an admin feature I guess, but wouldn't be hard to build in
<faulkes-> as well as add additional categories, terms, etc..
<owh> Going that route would then require a sort of "meta" individual, that seems like a lot of work.
<faulkes-> right now, it is by hand, mostly for lack of time on my part to build that in but it would be a fairly straight forward excersize
<mathiaz> faulkes-: These are more features. Let's try to get something done first and see how can extract information from that.
<mathiaz> Let's move on.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Server survey
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server survey
<owh> That would be me.
<faulkes-> me again I guess as nijaba is away or do you want to handle it mathiaz?
<mathiaz> nijaba is not around.
<faulkes-> I can go from his action email, that you updated
<mathiaz> I've updated the ReportingPage with a status he sent me.
<mathiaz> Anything else to add ?
<mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReportingPage
<faulkes-> sec
<owh> While faulkes- is looking...
<owh> I created https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ServerSurveyLaunch which has as many contacts in it as possible, but suggestions are welcome. The intent is to use the body text as the email text.
<owh> I tried coming up with actual press contacts where relevant, but I don't have any actual Canonical press contact.
<owh> I'm not sure how we best ask Server Team Members to blog about the survey so it shows up on Planet Ubuntu.
<mathiaz> It seems that the survey is too long to take.
<owh> Yes, I'd agree with that.
<faulkes-> well, we've only had a small sampling so far
<faulkes-> however
<faulkes-> we should be always reporting feature/bug requests to LP, I don't generally check the page itself
<faulkes-> so there is some stuff there that I can work on
<faulkes-> as for shortening the survey, I think we can do that effectively
<kirkland> mathiaz: I've communicated with Jonathan Corbet of LWN before, I can send him a note asking if it would be possible to publicize on LWN.net
<kirkland> no promises--he only sometimes responds to my email :-)
<faulkes-> I will look at tuning the questions so it is faster
<owh> kirkland: Add it to the wiki page, you don't need to give the email address if you're not comfortable with it.
<mathiaz> kirkland: seems great - could you add that to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ServerSurveyLaunch ?
<owh> kirkland: That way we don't hit LWN multiple times.
<owh> faulkes-: I wonder if the survey length is a function of a poorly defined audience/spec. I'm not saying it is, I'm just wondering.
<mathiaz> [ACTION] faulkes- to work on tuning the questions to make the survey shorter
<MootBot> ACTION received:  faulkes- to work on tuning the questions to make the survey shorter
<owh> faulkes-: It seems to be sprawling all over the place.
<mathiaz> owh: faulkes-: could you coordinate with nijaba ?
<owh> Yup
<faulkes-> there is some logical order which needs to be done on the questions
<faulkes-> mathiaz: yes, I will speak to nijaba
<kirkland> mathiaz: owh: done.
<mathiaz> owh: faulkes-: thanks -
<mathiaz> Let's move on.
<owh> Perhaps we can catch up afterwards faulkes- and have a chat about it.
<faulkes-> certainly
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] ServerTestingTeam
<MootBot> New Topic:  ServerTestingTeam
<mathiaz> So I spent some time to revamp the ServerTestingTeam wiki pages.
<mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTestingTeam
<mathiaz> The idea is to increase hardware testing for hardy.
<mathiaz> Reporting the results is done in the wiki.
<faulkes-> interesting, ok, I may be able to add some to that
<mathiaz> I'll also send an email to the previous people involved in the team and ask if they can still contribute.
<mathiaz> Anyone that has some server hardware is welcome to participate.
<faulkes-> for those unaware of my current status, I've moved from being a consultant to a FTE job, I will be converting the current environment to -server
<mathiaz> The idea is to download an iso and make sure the installation is successfll
<mathiaz> Yet another way to contribute to the Server Team :)
<faulkes-> mathiaz: I should have extra hardware resources now available to put to it
<mathiaz> faulkes-: great ! I've updated the wiki page to streamline the reporting process
<owh> mathiaz: That's looking great. Do you think it would be useful to add that link to the Survey Announcement to encourage more helpers, or might that be counter productive?
<mathiaz> owh: I'll make a separate announcement
<faulkes-> mathiaz: will ServerTestingTeam be a subset of the ServerTeam for membership purposes or?
<owh> Given that we're targeting -server users.
<mathiaz> faulkes-: for now, there isn't any LP team or membership
<mathiaz> It may be usefull at some point.
<faulkes-> owh: well, I think the survey is geared more to established environments rather than test ones
<mathiaz> faulkes-: correct - this is targeted at development versions.
<owh> Sure, but they're the same audience I would have thought.
<faulkes-> however, I see the reverse of that, in which we could bring in more people who have to support -server
 * faulkes- nods
<owh> Hence my query :)
<mathiaz> I'll send an email to -server to bring more people on board for the ServerTestingTeam
<faulkes-> I think for now, we should leave it seperate and let mathiaz start
<mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz to send an email about the ServerTestingTeam
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to send an email about the ServerTestingTeam
<mathiaz> Let's move on and Review Roadmap and ReportingPage.
<mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap
<mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReportingPage
<mathiaz> So I'd like to go through the items that are on the Roadmap but haven't any status on the ReportingPage
<owh> Is there a way to combine the two pages so it becomes more obvious?
<owh> Or is that counter productive?
<mathiaz> owh: well - I'm still trying to figure out how we can do that correctly
<mathiaz> so I'm still experimenting with this
<mathiaz> The ReportingPage is something new
<owh> We could make a template that "encourages" correct editing.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] iscsi support
<MootBot> New Topic:  iscsi support
<mathiaz> soren: any news on that ?
<soren> YEah.
<soren> Um... It seems that there are a few use cases that I had not taken into account when I implemented it.
<soren> Booting off of the network and having your root filesystem on iscsi for instance.
<soren> So.. That's still work that probably needs to be done.
<mathiaz> soren: would this be for hardy ?
<mathiaz> soren: isn't that a new feature ?
<soren> mathiaz: Yes. Yes, it is.
<soren> mathiaz: WEll, from certain users' perspective it's a bug.
<soren> I'll have to take it up with dendrobates and slangasek.
<owh> mathiaz: Isn't it only a bug if someone looses functionality, aren't we talking about *new* iscsi support?
<mathiaz> [ACTION] soren to talk with dendrobates and slangasek about iscsi support for root fs
<MootBot> ACTION received:  soren to talk with dendrobates and slangasek about iscsi support for root fs
<owh> I mean, at present it's just "not yet supported".
<mathiaz> owh: correct - this is why it needs to be discussed with the release team.
<soren> owh: It's a grey area.
<owh> Ah.
 * owh shuts up.
<mathiaz> owh: we could try to get a FFexception.
<soren> Just because something has never worked doesn't mean it's a feature.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Fix bugs marked by the QATeam
<MootBot> New Topic:  Fix bugs marked by the QATeam
<soren> Er... crap, that came out wrong.
<owh> I understand, I just figured we're better off making sure that what there is is working.
<mathiaz> The qa team has put up a list of bug for hardy
<mathiaz> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=qa-hardy-server
<mathiaz> kirkland: did you fix the nfs bug ?
<faulkes-> at least from my experience, booting from san for root fs has been around quite awhile, especially via pxe
<kirkland> mathiaz: affirmative, with the help of kees, and inifinity
<kirkland> mathiaz: no longer in that list ;-)  woohoo
<mathiaz> kirkland: great !
<mathiaz> there is an ntp bug left now
<owh> Isn't that just a case of changing the init.d order for ntp?
<kirkland> mathiaz: I was thinking that it could be solved by similar locking
<mathiaz> owh: I don't think so.
<kirkland> mathiaz: i think it has to do with NetworkManager
<mathiaz> kirkland: are the two bugs caused by the same problem
<mathiaz> kirkland: yes - that's what I think too.
<kirkland> mathiaz: only distantly...
<kirkland> mathiaz: both have upstart implications
<mathiaz> so it's an ifup/down script problem may be.
<mathiaz> ntp hasn't been designed to run on a laptop/desktop.
<owh> It seems to be related to DHCP rather than NetworkManager per se, that is, the ifup/down script.
<mathiaz> anyone wants to have a look at the bug ?
<zul> not me
<faulkes-> I wont likely be able to touch it either
 * soren looks up in the air
<owh> Fine.
 * faulkes- whistles innocently, hands behind his back
<owh> I'll have a squiz.
<owh> Sigh.
<owh> :)
<kirkland> mathiaz: I don't think it's ifup/ifdown so much
<kirkland> but perhaps...
<kirkland> mathiaz: should I tackle that bug?
<kirkland> (I hadn't been concentrating on it)
<mathiaz> [ACTION] owh to look into the ntp bug on the qa-server tag list
<MootBot> ACTION received:  owh to look into the ntp bug on the qa-server tag list
<owh> Damn, too slow :)
<mathiaz> kirkland: too late ;) - but you can still help out owh
 * owh accepts any help:)
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Virtualization
<MootBot> New Topic:  Virtualization
<kirkland> ;-)  ping me owh
<mathiaz> soren: any news ?
<soren> Yes.
<soren> kvm 62 was uploaded.
<soren> I've just now (within the last 47 seconds) discovered an issie with virtio_net in it which I'm working on.
<soren> I've sent the corresponding updates to the kernel to the kernel team.
<soren> It'll be pulled after the alpha releases.
<soren> I'm also looking into some last minute virtio fun to include in the guest kernel.
<soren> The paravirt clock, to be exact.
<zul> sounds scarey
<soren> Other htan that, I'm going into mad bug fixing mode.
<soren> zul: I pretty much hooks up your guest clock to the host's ditto. And that's the end of sucky timing issues in virtual machines.
<mathiaz> soren: great
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Windows authentication integration
<MootBot> New Topic:  Windows authentication integration
<zul> soren: how well tested is it? does it report clock drifts and the like?
<mathiaz> dendrobates: is there a new version likewise-open ready to be tested ?
<soren> zul: That's the sort of stuff I need to check up on first.
<zul> soren: yah :)
<mathiaz> people started to test what's in hardy and reported bugs.
<dendrobates> mathiaz: not yet.  waiting on upstream.
<dendrobates> mathiaz: was supposed to be today.
<mathiaz> Ok - I think that's all for the Roadmap.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Any other business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any other business
<mathiaz> anyone wants to add something ?
<zul> ebox had a ffe filed today
<zul> but nothing from me
<mathiaz> nealmcb: could you add an factoid for servergui ?
<mathiaz> nealmcb: I've added an item about it on the Roadmap
<sommer> ivoks mentioned that he's been sick for the last 10 days, but should be back soon
<sommer> to work on bacula, etc
<owh> Does this mean we have a meeting that actually finishes in less than an hour?
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time.
<mathiaz> same time, same place, next week ?
<owh> Yup
<kirkland> +1
<sommer> o//
<owh> These early mornings are going to kill me one day :)
<mathiaz> alright then. See ya next week
<mathiaz> thanks all for being here.
<mathiaz> And happy alpha6 testing ! :)
<sommer> thanks mathiaz, later all
<owh> Thanks mathiaz
<mathiaz> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 21:55.
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 08 Mar 11:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers | 12 Mar 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 19 Mar 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 26 Mar 21:00 UTC: Server Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-03-06
<pitti> hi all
<Keybuk> pitti: hey
<Keybuk> I'm not going to be able to lead today's meeting
<Keybuk> there's a lot of brown material hitting a lot of rotary air cooling devices that I need to try and catch before it creates a mess
<Keybuk> could you lead it for me?  I've put the page together, only thing on the agenda is a new item to go down the QA desktop bug list and make sure someone's claimed each one or removed it
<pitti> Keybuk: ok, no problem
<seb128> hello
<Riddell> hi
 * mvo waves
<pitti> Keybuk: ok, found the page and the bug list
<seb128> pitti: what bug list?
<pitti> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogasawara/qa-hardy-list-archive/sort-by-package/desktop-buglist.html
<seb128> ah
<pitti> tedg: here?
<tedg> Yes.
<pitti> good morning :)
<mvo> good morning scott
<pitti> hm, AFAICS we are just missing Mirco
<pitti> and mpt, but he said he was busy with LP this week
<mvo> mirco is on Cebit leave
<seb128> pitti: leading the meeting?
<pitti> ah
<pitti> Yes, Scott is EBUSY
<seb128> ok
<seele> desktop meeting, right?
<mpt> Good morning
<pitti> does anyone have some new agenda items?
<pitti> hello mpt
<tedg> Yeah, virtual interfaces in HAL.
<pitti> right
<tedg> They show up in NetworkManger and are very annoying.
<pitti> so, there is some discussion on the ML about this
<pitti> kees asked me to pull the hal patch for this
<tedg> Oh, haven't gotten to that yet :)
<pitti> other people seem to think that fixing NM to deal with them would be better
<pitti> IMHO it should be asac's decision, since he will end up being the one who fixes the bug
 * pitti pings him
<mpt> Is that why I have non-existent "RR-TPN", "TPN", and "TPN-PPPoE" networks showing up in NM?
<pitti> mpt: if it started a few days ago, then most likely
<tedg> mpt: Perhaps, but my show up as "Unknown Computer"
<pitti> so, let's defer this until asac turns up, or let's decide it on the ML
<pitti> does that work for everyone?
<tedg> Yeah.
<pitti> so, the only agenda point today is to walk over the QA hardy list and make sure about who is working on what
<pitti> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogasawara/qa-hardy-list-archive/sort-by-package/desktop-buglist.html
<pitti> let's go through everything starting from the top which is not assinged to a particular person
<pitti> if some bug is assigned to you, but you don't think you can work on it, please shout
<pitti> 131976 (apparmor)
<pitti> IMHO that shouldn't be on the list; we worked around it in casper, and getting AA to work is not very critical for the live system IMHO
 * asac reading backlog
<pitti> asac: Q: should I pull the 'virtual net interfaces' patch from hal (as requested by Kees) or do you want to fix n-m to ignore them?
<asac> pitti: whats the problem with the interfaces? (summary please)
<mvo> I take the command-not-found and apt ones (next three)
<pitti> asac: see ML
<asac> pitti: subject?
<pitti> asac: distro-team@, some activity report
<asac> ok i have found it i guess
<pitti> mvo: thanks
<pitti> so, there's a bunch of compiz bugs
<pitti> mvo: we have quite a good relation to upstream for compiz, right?
<asac> bug 198295
<seb128> asac: I didn't try yet using the new nm but some days ago when starting virtualbox nm was switching from the wireless network I'm using to the wired network
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 198295 in hal "FF exception request: update hal to git head" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/198295
<mvo> yes, but I think 99508 is actually a X bug
<pitti> mvo: do you think you could talk to upstream about those and check which can be fixed, and which should be taken off the list?
<mvo> I can do that
<mvo> #127705  	 is extremly unlikey to get fixed
<asac> pitti: can we ctake that off the meeting. i cannot really tell right now whats going on and don't feel like i can make a decision based on the info i currently have
<pitti> asac: sure
<asac> tedg: can you please file a bug about that NM behaviour and attach a full syslog to it?
<pitti> asac: thanks
<pitti> asac: ML?
<pitti> mvo: hm, that one sounds like a bug for TheMuso to look into?
<asac> pitti: first bug ... then ML if we have results
<asac> pitti: is there still a apckage with that patch somewhere? ppa?
<pitti> asac: current hardy does have that patch
<asac> ok
<pitti> asac: current ppa, too; bzr head doesn't any more
<mvo> pitti: I'm happy to talk to him about it, but its a difficult one IIRC the problem is conceptual, compiz does not use pango in its core so there is no atk
<asac> tedg: ok, please file a bug then.
<mvo> on window switching
<pitti> mvo: can you please assign the other bugs to you? I'll talk to TheMuso about the speak one
<pitti> and discuss taking it off the list otherwise
<mvo> I would like to share some of the others with mirco if possible
<pitti> sure
<mvo> right
 * pitti hugs mvo, thanks
<pitti> bug 146918 is an interesting one
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 146918 in gnome-volume-manager "poor descriptions for some startup programs" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/146918
<pitti> quite easy to fix, but should be done in accordance with upstream for not breaking translations too hard
<pitti> seb128: a 'desktop-bugs' assignee means basically you? (as primary responsibility, and you coordinate the delegation)?
<pitti> or is it just a kind of 'this is a desktop bug' task
<seb128> pitti: yes, usually it means me
<pitti> s/task$/tag/
<pitti> seb128: are you ok with the 'desktop-bugs' assignments on that page, or do we need to discuss any of it?
<seb128> looking
<seb128> I did untag all the bugs I want to fix and milestone those some days ago
<seb128> I didn't understand the page was supposed to be a list of things we need to fix
<seb128> I though it was a list of suggestions to consider
<seb128> and that we were supposed to untag or milestone
<pitti> I'll take care of the system-config-printer task of #146918 (speak with Till)
<pitti> seb128: correct
<seb128> I'm fine with those assigned to desktop-bugs
<pitti> seb128: that's what I mean, if a bug is not really appropriate for hardy, then we should take it off
<pitti> and we can discuss it here
<seb128> well, either untag or,and milestone until getting the list empty, right?
<seb128> "Unable to login when disk space is exhausted"
<seb128> I'll not likely work on this one
<seb128> didn't we have a spec for that?
<seb128> who was assigned to it?
<pitti> right, Ian was working on it
<pitti> until he left
<seb128> well, I though he did implemented it for gutsy
<pitti> hm, didn't we get the 1 MB tmpfs /tmp at least?
<pitti> /etc/init.d/mountoverflowtmp
<pitti> rcS.d/S37
<pitti> so shouldn't that be fixed?
<seb128> I though it would be but I didn't check
<pitti> seb128: so if /tmp was the actual issue, it should be fixed
<pitti> if ENOSPACE on ~ is a problem, too, then we need more fixes
<pitti> does anyone feel like giving this a test?
<pitti> and adopting this bug for the duration of the test at least?
<seb128> I'll try to do that while doing desktop testing if nobody else do but not guaranty, I've tons of things on my hardy list
<pitti> tedg: ^ interested?
<tedg> tedg: Sure, I can try.  I haven't looked at the bug, is there detail on how to reproduce?
<pitti> tedg: I guess it shuold work to log out, dd if=/dev/zero of=/tmp/bigfile until it aborts, and then logging in
<pitti> erm, maybe not /tmp
<pitti> /bigfile
<pitti> and then reboot
<pitti> i. e. fill your root partition to the max, and check if you can log in
<tedg> I think I'll virtualize that test ;)
<pitti> kwwii: how does your schedule look like? do you have some time to look into bug 149437?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 149437 in example-content "Examples folder content should be updated for Gutsy" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/149437
<kwwii> on bug 149437 we might get an update from a design company, keybuck would know more
<pitti> kwwii: I'm fine with doing the actual package update, but we need someone to run over the documents and check which need updating
<pitti> ah
<pitti> neat
<kwwii> I have been waiting the whole time to press enter on that comment :-)
 * pitti hugs kwwii
<pitti> kwwii: could you talk to him and ask him about this?
<kwwii> pitti: yepp, I'll stay on top of it
<pitti> cool; mind to assing the bug to you?
<kwwii> yepp, will do
<pitti> cool, thanks
 * pitti reads bug 149665 and wonders whether tedg already knows something about it
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 149665 in linux-source-2.6.22 "when returning from suspend my laptop tries to hibernate" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/149665
<tedg> asac: bug 199140
<pitti> an upstream "Linux" task header with a gnome bug, yay
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 199140 in network-manager "Network manager shows and connects to virtual interfaces" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/199140
<Riddell> what is this bug list?  I don't understand how these bugs were chosen to be special and why there's a list there rather than on launchpad
<tedg> pitti: Yeah, the curious part about that one is gpm blocks all events until it resyncs for that reason.
<pitti> tedg: do we already have the patch davidz mentions in http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=486138#c6 ?
<ubotu> Gnome bug 486138 in gnome-power-manager "suspend after resume from hibernate" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<pitti> Riddell: it's the qa-hardy-list tag sorted by team
<Riddell> and they're chosen just by qa team considering them important?
<tedg> No, that's on my list to look at from Fedora.
<pitti> tedg: anyway, assuming that the bug reporters answer, could you collect enough hal and g-p-m logs from them to update the upstream bug? At least finding out whether it's a hal or g-p-m bug? (the reporters should try the hal git snapshot in my PPA, to be uploaded tomorrow after alpha-6)
<pitti> tedg: ok, so seems you already own that bug?
<tedg> pitti: Yes.
<pitti> Riddell: its a pool that we should pull from, not a commitment list
<pitti> Riddell: IIRC it was choosen for bugs which are particularly annoying people, or have many dups, etc.
 * tedg needs to go buy 10 random laptops to recreate some of these...
<pitti> Riddell: we can untag them if a bug isn't something appropriate for hardy
<pitti> tedg: I think if we can get detailled logs and pinpoint whether it's gpm or hal and send it to David, we have a good chance
<pitti> mvo: bug 96705 sounds easy to fix?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 96705 in synaptic "Unclear language about Automatic Updates in Software Sources" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/96705
<pitti> (and we should do it soon, since we are in UI freeze)
<mvo> pitti: yeah, give the synaptic ones to me too
<pitti> ok, thanks
<pitti> Riddell: can you comment on the KDE ones? anything which is inappropriate for the list?
<Riddell> 99044 is a feature
<Riddell> 19802 ugly but not that important
<Riddell> 36655 I have no way of testing unless someone gets me a modem
<Riddell> 50039 likely very complex to fix
<Riddell> 125767 I don't know what this one is about, would need to look into it, sounds like a feature
<Riddell> 145337 is on my todo :)
<pitti> Riddell: bug 99044 sounds like the counterpart of bug 32917
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 99044 in kdebase "KDM does not work if disk is full and gives no warning about it" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/99044
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 32917 in rhythmbox "Multimedia keys only works after re-configuring in gnome-keybinding-properties and restarting rhythmbox" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/32917
<pitti> erm, I mean bug 35217
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 35217 in gdm "Unable to login when disk space is exhausted" [Unknown,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/35217
<pitti> Riddell: so with /etc/init.d/mountoverflowtmp it might be fixed for Kubuntu as well?
<Riddell> yes, it does
<Riddell> I don't know what that does
<Riddell> I can look into it
<pitti> Riddell: it creates an 1 MB tmpfs on /tmp if / is full
<pitti> Riddell: tedg will test it for GNOME
<pitti> Riddell: I think that'll solve it for /; it might be an issue if /home is on a separate partition and /home is full, though
<pitti> Riddell: 19802 should be untagged then?
<Riddell> pitti: indeed, I don't think it's worth spending much time on
<pitti> Riddell: bug 125767> ah, I see; I think it means that if you have configured a wifi in /etc/network/interfaces, there's no GUI way to disable it again
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 125767 in knetworkmanager "KNetworkManager Can't Set "Roaming Mode"" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/125767
<Riddell> right, that's a pain and should be fixed, but it's not my highest priority
<pitti> Riddell: in GNOME, we have a "Configure manually..." menu item in network-manager which spawns the network configuration tool (network-admin in gnome)
<Riddell> we do too
<pitti> which allows you to disable the /e/n/i one
<pitti> ah, ok
<pitti> "Riddell| 125767 I don't know what this one is about", so I thought I'd explain
<Riddell> and now I know :)
<pitti> Riddell: I agree that it's not an OMGRELEASEBLOCKER thing
<pitti> so, untaggin it is then?
<Riddell> shrug, keep it tagged, maybe me or someone else will find time for it
<pitti> Riddell: at least it should be reassigned to the network kcontrol package?
<Riddell> yes (kdeadmin)
<pitti> since a normal user can't change /e/n/interfaces anyway
<pitti> ok, thanks
<pitti> Riddell: hm, 145337 is in fact a KDE bug? sounds like a hal bug at first sight
<Riddell> pitti: likely an issue with kmilo
<Riddell> so kdeutils is the right place for it
<pitti> alright
<pitti> so, I think that's the list; any questions, comments, bugs to discuss/throw out/reassign due to overload/cry for help?
<pitti> I personally don't have a lot of milestoned/tagged ones
<pitti> so I'm concentrating on hal/utopia ones ATM to improve hardware support
<seb128_> we have lot of desktop bugs, anybody is welcome to crack on those ;-)
<pitti> so I can help out if you need me
<seb128_> nobody does avahi by any chance?
<pitti> seb128_: I'm interested in learning about gvfs, I might have a stab on it
<seb128_> pitti: cool ;-)
<pitti> avahi> lool?
 * seb128_ hugs pitti
<seb128_> pitti: lool is mobile team now though
<pitti> seb128_: I don't know much about it, but I have good contact to Lennart
<pitti> seb128_: so if you stumble across a bad one, toss it to me, and I'll discuss it with him and see what I can do
<seb128_> pitti: ok, that's my issue, avahi doesn't go out of the registering state on my desktop
<seb128_> might be a race with network manager or something
<seb128_> there is several similar issue on launchpad
<seb128_> that breaks totally gvfs dns-sd
<pitti> seb128_: ok, I added "look at avahi bugs" to my TODO list
<seb128_> restarting avahi make it work correctly
<seb128_> does lennart do IRC?
<seb128_> could you ask him what informations would be useful to him?
<pitti> occasionally, but most often I use jabber
<seb128_> ok
<pitti> seb128_: bug#?
<seb128_> if you have a chance to ask him
<pitti> sure
<seb128_> pitti: I should likely open a bug upstream
<pitti> seb128_: if it totally breaks, please add qa-hardy-list
<seb128_> but yet another bug tracker where to register
<pitti> seb128_: so the avahid started from rc2.d has that problem?
<seb128_> yes
<seb128_> but not on all the system
<pitti> seb128_: ok, let's handle htat in #u-devel, shall we?
<seb128_> it does on my desktop
<pitti> any other topics for the meeting?
<seb128_> and there is similar issues on launchpad
<seb128_> yes, thanks
<seb128_> no other topic
<pitti> ok, thanks everyone then
<pitti> let's go zap bugz!
<seb128_> ;-)
<seb128_> thanks pitti
<tedg> :)
<mvo> thanks
<pitti> seb128_: let me write and send the meeting report, then I'll get back to you
<seb128_> pitti: sure
<mruiz> @schedule Santiago
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Santiago: 08 Mar 08:00: Kubuntu Developers | 12 Mar 17:00: Server Team | 19 Mar 17:00: Server Team | 26 Mar 17:00: Server Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-03-07
<mruiz> @schedule Santiago
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Santiago: 08 Mar 08:00: Kubuntu Developers | 12 Mar 17:00: Server Team | 19 Mar 17:00: Server Team | 26 Mar 17:00: Server Team
<steph_> Hi !
<steph_> hello
<Seveas> hello steph_
<sam7> hello - bonjour steph
<sam7> connextion rÃ©ussie
<steph_> moi: tu n'arrives pas Ã  te connecter ?
<steph_> tu utilise XChat ?
<steph_> sylvain: non, en fait je suis un peu perdu, j'avais sauvegarder Ã§a dans mes marques pages sur mon ancien PC
<steph_> moi: ben si tu es sous Ubuntu
<steph_> sylvain: je ne sais plus ce que j'utilisais...
<steph_> moi: faut pas passer par un naviguateur pour les meetings
<steph_> les naviguateurs, c'est plus pour les chats ou les trucs dans le genre
<steph_> sylvain: oui, je suis sous ubuntu 7.10 maintenant, avant j'Ã©tais sous 6.06 sur un vieux pc
<steph_> moi: pour les vraies discussion IRC, utilise plutÃ´t un client IRC
<steph_> le mieux sous Ubuntu c'est XChat
<steph_> sudo apt-get install xchat
<steph_> sylvain: bouge pas, j'install & je te dis quoi
<steph_> EnvoyÃ© samedi Ã  00:33
<steph_> sylvain: INSTALLATION EFFECTUEE, que dois-je faire ensuite ?
<steph_> moi: ben tu le lances
<steph_> dans ton menu Applications
<steph_> Internet
<steph_> XChat
<steph_> EnvoyÃ© samedi Ã  00:35
<steph_> sylvain: le rÃ©seau #ubuntu-meeting n'apparait pas dans la liste...
<steph_> EnvoyÃ© samedi Ã  00:36
<steph_> sylvain: comment procÃ©der pour l'y ajouter ?
<steph_> moi: ben en fait
<steph_> c'est des commandes en IRC
<steph_> sylvain: si c'est possible
<steph_> moi: vas sur un salon quelconque (un chan)
<steph_> enfin dans la fenÃªtre principale
<steph_> en bas, dans la boÃ®te de dialogue oÃ¹ tu peux taper du texte
<steph_> tu tapes /join (la commande pour rejoindre ton channel) #tonchannel
<steph_> les salons sont tous prÃ©cÃ©dÃ©s de #
<steph_> donc /join #ubuntu-meeting
<steph_> EnvoyÃ© samedi Ã  00:38
<steph_> sylvain: je n'ai pas l'impression que j"y arrive (Ã  join/#...
<steph_> je suis dans ubuntu server #ubuntu
<steph_> moi: tu vois des gens qui chat ?
<steph_> tiens attends, on va voir un truc
<steph_> vas dans Applications --> Internet --> Terminal Server Client
<steph_> sylvain: on a Ã©tÃ© coupÃ©, mauvaise manip
<steph_> moi: vas dans Applications --> Internet --> Terminal Server Client
<steph_> sylvain: j'Ã©tais sur la 6.06 dans une virtualbox, je suis repassÃ© sur la 7.10
<steph_> moi: vas dans Applications --> Internet --> Terminal Server Client
<steph_> sylvain: j'y suis
<steph_> moi: protocole : VNC
<steph_> sylvain: que faut il taper & oÃ¹ ?
<steph_> moi: adresse : 82.228.149.26
<steph_> et aprÃ¨s tu fais ok
<steph_> sylvain: adresse, dans quel champ ?
<steph_> moi: le premier en fait
<steph_> sylvain: ok
<steph_> & je clique sur connecter ?
<steph_> moi: et aprÃ¨s tu fais EntrÃ©e
<steph_> ouaip
<steph_> bon c'est bon
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-03-08
<Fujitsu> [A2
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Kubuntu Developers Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 12 Mar 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 19 Mar 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 26 Mar 21:00 UTC: Server Team
<theunixgeek> Is the meeting beginning? :)
<jpatrick> soon (tm)
<Hobbsee> almost
<Zic> @schedule Paris
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: Current meeting: Kubuntu Developers 12 Mar 22:00: Server Team | 19 Mar 22:00: Server Team | 26 Mar 22:00: Server Team
<Zic> hmm
<Zic> @now Paris
<ubotu> Current time in Europe/Paris: March 08 2008, 11:56:48 - Current meeting: Kubuntu Developers
<jpatrick> noon all
<jpatrick> who's here for the meeting?
<Lure> noon confirmed here ;-)
 * Lure is here, but may need to run in half an hour
<jpatrick> We have one agenda item for today: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings
<jpatrick> and dear apachelogger's disappeared again
<theunixgeek> Is the meeting beginning? :)
<Lure> jpatrick: we can reject his proposal in his absence ;-)
 * Hobbsee is here
 * xRaich[o]2x is here for the meeting. Just peeking.
 * Hobbsee is even on kubuntu atm!
<jpatrick> theunixgeek: seems to be
 * stdin starts paying attention
<Lure> Hobbsee: welcome back to sanity ;-)
<Hobbsee> Lure: and bugs, yes.
<Lure> Hobbsee: just right time to fix some ;-)
<jpatrick> anyone have any items to discuss?
 * Hobbsee isn't exactly sure why some of the windows will refuse to raise from minimised, though
<Lure> nothing to discuss then?
<jpatrick> or any last minute member candidates?
<Hobbsee> is Riddell here?
<Lure> jpatrick: not sure if we have quorum
<Hobbsee> nixternal: might be around
<jpatrick> Hobbsee: he's out so I got leadership for meeting
<Hobbsee> jpatrick: eparse
<theunixgeek> jpatrick: me
<jpatrick> theunixgeek: do you have a wikipage?
<theunixgeek> jpatrick: on wikipedia yes :P
<jpatrick> Lure: we can still mail the other council members with member requests
<jpatrick> ubotu: tell theunixgeek about member
<jpatrick> well, one apache's item, I'm all in for having Dragon Player as default :)
<theunixgeek> jpatrick: without being a member I can't participate in the meeting?
<fir3__> makes sense since it's the only qt4 player currently available
<Lure> jpatrick: I also do not see better alternative at this point of time
<smarter> smplayer is also available
<jpatrick> theunixgeek: you can
<Hobbsee> theunixgeek: you can participate
<smarter> and kplayer(but not packaged)
<jpatrick> smarter: don't see kplayer getting past Feature Freeze
<jpatrick> and we'll need a MainInclusionReport for DragonPlayer
<Lure> theunixgeek: membership is more a recognition of contribution, but we accept any contributions from anybody - so feel free to contribute on our meetings
<theunixgeek> ok :)
<Lure> jpatrick: not really - kde4 will stay in universe
<Hobbsee> -1 to dragon player.  does it do ogg?
<fir3__> but people using kde4 at its current state should be able to pick a video player on their own anyway
<jpatrick> Lure: for ibex, but it's going to be part for kdemultimedia by then
<smarter> last time I checked you couldn't switch between DVD chapters with dragonplayer
<jpatrick> Hobbsee: yep, it's KDE 4 codeine
<smarter> and I've seen lots of people complaining about the lack of features of dragonplayer
<smarter> another Qt4 player is the new VLC(beta atm)
<fir3__> i'm for qt4 vlc, if it works well
<theunixgeek> So when will the meeting begin? :)
<Hobbsee> either the deps are wrong, or this player is very unstable.
<Hobbsee> or it just doesn't like me
 * Hobbsee had one file where it crashed, and another with no audio
<jpatrick> Hobbsee: well, apache packaged it
<fir3__> but it won't be possible to make kde4 a feature-complete desktop as kde3 at it's current state, so i think stability of the apps is more important, kde4 is buggy enough
<Hobbsee> er, no *video*
<fir3__> what kde4 version will hardy use, btw? 4.0.2 or later(svn)?
<smarter> 4.0.3/4.0.4
<Hobbsee> oh, doesn't work with desktop effects enabled, at all, on intel cards
<jpatrick> I've heard Debian will start uploading KDE 4.1 betas this month
<jpatrick> (or at least they refused my dragonplayer package because of that)
<kwwii> sorry for showing up late
<Hobbsee> looks like a nice player, modulo that
<Hobbsee> hi kwwii
<kwwii> hi Hobbsee
<fir3__> jpatrick: i thought 4.1 would be released in summer?
<Hobbsee> but i suspect that's a driver problem
<Hobbsee> fir3__: hence the betas
<jpatrick> fir3__: snapshots and stuff
<fir3__> nice :)
 * Hobbsee watches monty python in the background
<theunixgeek> This is the meeting? :) It's completely different than I thought.
<xRaich[o]2x> Suse also is doing a KDE4.1 snapshot livecd.
<Hobbsee> theunixgeek: it's rather relaxed today.  something with not much to do on the agenda
<theunixgeek> ok
<jpatrick> anyone have any topics we could discuss at UDS this May?
<kwwii> how about the website redesign, perhaps working on the wiki as well
<jpatrick> kwwii: ryancak is working on the website and it's going on quite well
<jpatrick> (Current UDS topics I have are http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/58858/ btw)
<kwwii> looks like a good list :-)
<jpatrick> I think JR changed it at one point tho, but other items are welcome
<kwwii> I had hoped taht stefan would be at the meeting to discuss the new themeing he put together
<jpatrick> any url so we can all see it?
<kwwii> unfortunately it is all on his server, no idea where :-(
<kwwii> he'll miss the beta and after that it will be too late .-(
<jpatrick> hrm.. :-(
<jpatrick> I suppose there's always Ibex, or is it KDE 3 themeing?
<xRaich[o]2x> I saw that you guys consider to pick up koffice for the kubuntu-office-suite. Are we talking about Ibex Office here?
<jpatrick> xRaich[o]2x: those ideas are all for ibex
<xRaich[o]2x> jpatrick: I just tested Krita and it's still in unusable state. And I don't think it'll be any better when Ibex comes out. When are they planing to do the final?
<jpatrick> xRaich[o]2x: no idea, maybe by summer
<jpatrick> hey, we could get _czessi up for membership (as he's in the ~kubuntu-members queue)
<xRaich[o]2x> Hmm. Maybe they'll hit that date. If they do it would be a cool alternative for openoffice.
<jpatrick> yeah
<jpatrick> so, anything else to discuss?
<Hobbsee> not from me
<xRaich[o]2x> jpatrick: Just checked the koffice site. They are planning to release it in june.
<jpatrick> xRaich[o]2x: awesome :)
<xRaich[o]2x> May 16 RC1. I'll be sure to Test the beta ^^
<jpatrick> xRaich[o]2x: well the final will probably get into Ibex
<jpatrick> well, meeting over I guess..
<jpatrick> and thanks for coming :)
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 12 Mar 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 19 Mar 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 26 Mar 21:00 UTC: Server Team
<shadowh512> it the ubuntu art meeting soon?
<CaioAlonso> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event look at the calendar
<shadowh512> ok
<steph_> hi
<dsargeant> touchpad and trackpoint (lenovo laptop)
<dsargeant> oops, wrong window
<steph_> :)
<dsargeant> are people here for the art meeting?
<CaioAlonso> no idea
<fruchtschwert> 45 minutes to go
<fruchtschwert> i think ..
<andrea-bs> the art meeting is not scheduled, are you sure to be in the right channel?
<dsargeant> sorry, I was just making sure that art meeting was up next.
<andrea-bs> <http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event>
<dsargeant> andrea-bs: that's what I was trying to check, I'm not sure
<dsargeant> andrea-bs: I noticed it wasn't on the schedule
<andrea-bs> dsargeant: sometimes there are also some non-scheduled meetings
<dsargeant> I guess I'll find out in 45 mins
<andrea-bs> I think it will be took here: <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Meetings>
<fruchtschwert> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2008-March/005494.html
<steph_> and now it's 20:22 UTC ?
<Jtsukishiro> yep
<andrea-bs> @now
<steph_> good.
<steph_> I mean gooooooood
<steph_> it's late :(
<steph_> I've got to go at a party with friends next
<steph_> but for me, meeting is at 22:00
<steph_> if you wanna know much more about my exciting life, mail me.
<Jtsukishiro> ^^
<CaioAlonso> =D
<Jtsukishiro> someone speaks Spanish?
<steph_> ten minutes remaining.
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: March 08 2008, 20:48:04 - Next meeting: Server Team in 4 days
<kwwii> art meeting soon
<kwwii> even if it is incorrectly planned :p
<steph_> :)
<laughing_man> incorrectly planned?
<dsargeant> it wasn't on the schedule http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event
<laughing_man> ahh, yeah i noticed that too. But it was on the "artwork" section of the site. So you know, we're here.
<laughing_man> :-)
<dsargeant> no harm done
<laughing_man> indeed
<kwwii> ok, let's give people a few more minutes to join and then start things up
<kwwii> ok, so everyone/anyone here for the art meeting?
<laughing_man> i am
<dsargeant> me too
<kwwii> ok, so let's go through the points
<kwwii> Â * GDM: Â getting the bg inline with the wallpaper; new icons
<kwwii> Â * GTK: Â tweaking the gtk themes and discussing clearlooks vs. murrine
<kwwii> Â * DESKTOP: Wallpaper tweaks. Discussing current state, ideas for moving
<kwwii> forward
<kwwii> Â * ICONS: Needed! Update icon in Human style for panel; Scale and Expose
<kwwii> icons; General state of human refresh
<kwwii> Â * 8.10: Discuss current ideas, how to move forward
<kwwii> Â * 8.10 DeviantArt Theme Competition: Â A way to engage with the wider
<kwwii> community of creative-commons artists.
<kwwii> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/deviantart-theme-competition
<sam7> hello, i'm here this time
<kwwii> well, that did not work as well as I thought it could
<kwwii> let's start at the top; GDM
<sam7> the GDM must look like the main theme
<gp[]> hello everyone people
<kwwii> been thinking about using a heron-like bg for the gdm
<kwwii> hi gp[], sam7 laughing_man, dsargeant
<laughing_man> hello
<sam7> yes, the hardy heron, with only one button in the left corner
<fruchtschwert> maybe it should match with the wallpaper .. ?
<sam7> yest
<laughing_man> can we refrain from acyronims for the time being.
<kwwii> fruchtschwert: that is the point, really
<steph_> kwwii, you mean changing GDM at each release ?
<laughing_man> what is GDM?
<steph_> Gnome Display Manager
<steph_> you connexion screen
<kwwii> steph_: I would like to see the bg in gdm at least match with the desktop
<kwwii> it does not have to be exactly the same
<sam7> it must be the same as the theme used by default
<dsargeant> are we decided on the wallpaper then?
<sam7> of course
<kwwii> just using some elements from the wallpaper would be enough  I htink
<sam7> but it must look like
<sam7> sorry for my bad english
<kwwii> we are very close to being certain that some form of the heron will be default
<kwwii> either the heron or elephant
<dsargeant> my vote's for the heron
<fruchtschwert> what about this kutie fela wallpaper ?
<sam7> the 2 will be instaled by default
<fruchtschwert> why elephant ?
<steph_> yes, I must admit GDM is a little too 'simple'
<gp[]> i agre with you kwwii for the gdm, i vote for heron
<steph_> we could tweak it a littlt
<kwwii> fruchtschwert: feta kuli is the heron I am talking about
<sam7> GDM & wallpaper
<sam7> heron & elephant
<kwwii> another point in gdm is the icons that come with it
<kwwii> we need to make new ones (I cretaed one quickly to fix a bug)
<dsargeant> are we using the same gdm layout?
<kwwii> dsargeant: bascially, yes
<sam7> 2 colours : brown/orange for gnome and blue for KDE
<kwwii> dsargeant: unless we can think of some worthwhile change
<sam7> yes, new icones is a good idea
<sam7> more modern
<steph_> kwwii, the one you've done is quite nice :)
<kwwii> so if anyone is interested in working on either of those points, let me know
<steph_> I want to learn icon creations. This doesn't mean I can do it :)
<kwwii> steph_: the general style of those icons is nasty though
<steph_> old fashionned
<kwwii> right
<sam7> i dont know how to do it, but it must be interesting
<steph_> I'd like to have a look, but I'm gonna be disconnected :]
<steph_> by the way, just a question
<laughing_man> what icons in particular are we talking about? i'm soooo lost.
<kwwii> so moving on to the next topic
<steph_> is there a way to make a better transition between GDM and Desktop
<kwwii> laughing_man: the restart, shut-down, hibernate, sleep icons in the menu at the bottom left of gdm (after you click on the system icon)
<steph_> how'd you say the word...it's not gradient
<kwwii> steph_: that is one thing that we are pretty much always looking into
<kwwii> but it is not something that will happen soon
<sam7> why not create a new usplash
<fruchtschwert> and a nice grub ..
<kwwii> sam7: feel free to make a proposal
<fruchtschwert> i'm not the big developer .. just asking ..
<sam7> yes, all the icones must be changed, and more modern
<dsargeant> shouldn't those icons be the same as are displayed when you click on system quit in gnome?
<kwwii> so, next topic
<kwwii> GTK
<kwwii> I tweaked both the themes a bit
<steph_> Can't find the word
<sam7> i dont know how to do
<kwwii> that should be apparent by now...I have another change ready, getting the orange color correct is somewhat hard and took some testing
<sam7> i think the new LTS must be the occasion to change icones by defaul
<laughing_man> is there a visual database of all these proposals? or is this all conceptual/descriptive at this point?
<kwwii> dsargeant: ideally yes, all the icons for that metaphor should look the same
<mgunes> kwwii, do you submit your changes to a bzr repo anywhere?
<sam7> i'd like to learn to do it
<kwwii> mgunes: yes, I put the changes in human-theme on launchpad
<kwwii> but it should already be in the repo I guess
<mikemaccana> And there I was in -artwork wondering why everyone was so quiet
<kwwii> mgunes: I will be commiting some more changes either later or tomorrow
<kwwii> mikemaccana: :-)
<sladen> sb end
<mgunes> kwwii, thanks
<dsargeant> I think the color selection ability in the gtk should be a priority.
<kwwii> I think that if we are going to change the theme engine murrine looks like the more flexible engine
<kwwii> dsargeant: I agree with that too an extent
<sam7> yes, the colors are important
<kwwii> the idea behind the color select stuff is great, but if I cannot easily make a theme which looks like I want it to, I will happily lose that option for this one theme
<dsargeant> so far the clearlooks is the only one that has the ability, correct?
<sam7> something between brown and orange for example
<kwwii> there is a suggested murrine as well
<kwwii> I thought about playing with that for a bit to see if I could fix things up
<mgunes> kwwii, human-murrine-mod?
<gp[]> yes, I agre with the idea to swith at murrine engine
<kwwii> mgunes: yes
<laughing_man> all right, well as much fun as this is.. i think i'm just going to bow out now because i'm just an artist i got no idea what you people are refering to with all your GTK GDM etc. talk.. Good luck with everything! i'll just submit a wallpaper or something on deviantart.
<sam7> with black and or grey
<steph_> kwwii, at the moment, I'm using a theme I found yesterday on the Web, wich is MurrinaTango
<fruchtschwert> is the gradient between menubar and symbolbar available in murrine too ?
<fruchtschwert> this hack by xlcheese ?
<steph_> I think we should do something in the style
<steph_> give you a screenshot
<sam7> for the "tableau de bords"
<DanaG> Hmm, I currently use an orange Aurora theme I assembled myself.  Somebody else described it as "another unnecessary fork of Murrine", but it looks way different to me.
<kwwii> first off, we will not be using any hacked themes
<kwwii> it is too late for that now
<dsargeant> laughing_man: are you subsribed to the ubuntu-art mailing list?
<laughing_man> no
<kwwii> so if we pick a theme engine it is between clearlooks and murrine
<kwwii> or ubuntulooks, naturally
<kwwii> I get the feeling that just trying to tweak things in an existing theme is not the right way to go about this
<dsargeant> laughing_man: people seem to be submitting artwork there
<DanaG> My current theme also uses the Tropic metacity theme without the red button.
<DanaG> www.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/screenshot.png   -- can you make Murrine look like that Aurora, too?
<fruchtschwert> but i heard murrine has more modern features than clearlooks without hacks
<gp[]> the murrine is a good a flexible engine
<fruchtschwert> so probably choose this one
<kwwii> we should know what we want in advance and then get a theme written which does that
<laughing_man> dsargent: i'm not a hardcore linux user i just use it for basic things.. i wanted to help out with the art, but i'm just too confused by all this technical speak to keep up, or really contribute.
<sam7> murrine is a good idea
<kwwii> laughing_man: it will not all be this technical
<fruchtschwert> i also read, murrine can do transparency .. this would be great
<dsargeant> laughing_man: yeah, don't be discouraged.  The deviant art topic is on the agenda too.
<andreasn> sorry for the late arrival, had some technical issues
<sam7> yes, its great transparency
<gp[]>  I saw the color scheme used in Alpha 6 for murrine and it very nice
<kwwii> I think that the way forward is to try and use murrine with the intent to create a theme of our own based somewhat on that for hardy+1
<gp[]> I agre with you (kwwii)
<laughing_man> well if you could point me to screen shots like danaG i can give an opinion.. :-)
<sam7> why not for the 8.04 LTS
<steph_> http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/1379/murrinatangofb7.png
<gp[]> murrine is very flexible
<dsargeant> is it possible to add the color selection to murrine?
<kwwii> keep up the discussion on the list about this stuff
<mgunes> kwwii, I reckon what we want to do is get rid of the blandness of Ubuntulooks and introduce a tiny bit of vividness and contrast with a new engine, without drifting too far from the theme of the last three releases
<steph_> kwwii, what do you think about the menubar ?
<fruchtschwert> i agree with mgunes
<sam7> The menubar must be more modern
<sam7> more fluide
<kwwii> mgunes: I think that things like the ubuntulooks scrollbars and progress bars are pretty cool and that we might want to evolve that style a bit instead of just pitching it because an existing theme doesn't do it like that
<steph_> I like the stripes in menubars
<kwwii> so, the next subject is the wallpaper
<kwwii> it seems like we have almost covered that already
<fruchtschwert> are these bars not possible with murrine ?
<dsargeant> The animated progress bars look strange in network manager.
<laughing_man> i think it's important to perserve the colorscheme of ubuntu.. :-) and i do like the stripes in the menubars.. it's simple but looks polished and slick.
<fruchtschwert> i like them
<kwwii> feta kuli (the heron pic) is very popular
<sam7> the systeme menu must be reorganised
<kwwii> I will probably edit the background parts a bit to reduce the contrast
<fruchtschwert> i think its a great idea to make a connection with the distribution naming
<laughing_man> kwwi, what are you reffering to when you say you'll edit?
<laughing_man> do you have a screen image i can see?
<DanaG> If the (tweaked not to look bloody) heron pic ends up as default in Hardy, I am so going to get a case skin of it (with a black background) for my next laptop.
<kwwii> laughing_man: what I miss most in the murrine progress bars is the little lines showing percentage or whatever
<mgunes> the problem is that "Hardy Heron" isn't the release name. it's the development codename
<andreasn> I noticed some issues with the background on some screens with 16 bit systems, anyone else ran into that?
<mgunes> besides, most non-English speaking people won't associate the picture with a "Heron"
<andreasn> err...16 bit color depth
<kwwii> andreasn: probably with the gradient and the transparent things on top
<kwwii> color-banding or whatever it is called
<fruchtschwert> doesn't mark shuttleworth give guidelines concerning the wallpaper ? or at least an opinion ?
<laughing_man> what is the murrine progress bar? lol i don't know the technical names of anything... sorry
<kwwii> fruchtschwert: yes, he does, to me :-)
<andreasn> kwwii: did you settle for either murrine or clearloooks yet?
<fruchtschwert> so, what does he say :-)
<dsargeant> laughing_man: murrine is the engine used to draw windows.
<kwwii> andreasn: nope, not sure yet
<fruchtschwert> maybe we should rewind to engine once more
<kwwii> andreasn: it will either be murrine or ubuntulooks again
<fruchtschwert> to gtk i mean
<kwwii> if you ask me, that is ;-)
<andreasn> kwwii: ah, ok
<kwwii> dsargeant: nope, murrine is used to draw all the things inside windows, metacity is used to draw windows :D
<DanaG> Are murrine and clearlooks the only two choices?  I'd hope to also see Aurora and Fedora's Nodoka engines packaged, at least, even if not used by default.  Both theme engines look nice to me.
<steph_> and metacity theme have to be reviewed
<kwwii> DanaG: they could certainly be packaged, have you ever done that kinda stuff before?
<andreasn> did either of those (ubuntulooks or murrine) have any issues with the firefox3 betas? I know Nodoka ran into some issues
<steph_> cause I think this is the most old-fshionned of the theme
<fruchtschwert> the developer of murrine quite critized these alternative engines
<dsargeant> kwwii: sorry, that's what I meant, the insides
<DanaG> Here's a theme I used for a while, until I realized it was making me gloomy:  http://users.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/screenshot-dark.png
<laughing_man> I had read that artist were asked to use open-source graphics software to create the wallpaper? Is that set in stone? because frankly OSS graphics software is nowhere near as good as Adobe software. can someone explain were we're at on that?
<fruchtschwert> as useless forks :-)
<kwwii> laughing_man: no, that is not really true
<gp[]> why not use a new metacity theme? xl_cheese posted a very nice metacity theme in mailinglist
<DanaG> If you can reproduce them with Murrine, then they're useless, but otherwise, they seem different to me.
<mgunes> andreasn, see bug 192778
<laughing_man> Dana, this is gloomy... we don't want people to get depressed!
<kwwii> gp[]: because that would change the look of the last of the cycle, a long term support product
<DanaG> But just look at the engine and ignore the wallpaper and colors.  Fedora 8 uses that engine with a ridiculously-bright blue.
<kwwii> we will change things up after hardy
<sam7> metacity is beautifull too
<andreasn> mgunes: gnome bugzilla? mozilla or launchpad?
<steph_> DanaG, it looks a little KDE-like, but nice
<mgunes> andreasn, sorry, LP
<gp[]> kwwii: ok ok
<laughing_man> Okay so it's my impression that we're working to design the default graphics on this, but everything will still be as customizable a ever right?
<kwwii> laughing_man: yepp
<fruchtschwert> we should copy fedora
<fruchtschwert> we should not
<steph_> laughing_man, free graphical softwares are quite powerful...if you know how to use it
<fruchtschwert> i wanted to say
<sam7> no, we mus'nt copy
<DanaG> I'll screenshot that theme with orange.
 * kwwii runs to the bathroom at the half-way point
<fruchtschwert> .. so somebody knows a good joke ?
<laughing_man> steph, i'm sorry to say for professional purposes, FOSS graphics programs don't hold a candle to photoshop.. hate to say it, but it's true.
<steph_> Really high professionals, in this case
<laughing_man> steph: some of us are that ;-)
<kwwii> ok, sorry for that
<laughing_man> yes dana please screenshot the theme you're talking about.
<kwwii> so next up....
<kwwii> ICONS
<dsargeant> laughing_man: My opinion is you can use whatever you want to create the art as long as it can be opened with foss.
<kwwii> we hae several icons which need to be made, anyone here want to make an icon? :-)
<kwwii> pretty please?
<laughing_man> good opinion dsargent.. :-)
<mgunes> kwwii, what's the status of your panel icons?
<laughing_man> what do you want the icon to be made for?
<steph_> I don't know if someone noticed
<steph_> but in your home folder
<steph_> default view
<sam7> why not, if someone tell me how to do
<laughing_man> and what type of file should it be to be useable?
<steph_> folder icons don't look really nice
<DanaG> www.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/screenshot-orange-nodoka.png
<steph_> but just type Ctrl + (increase icon size) and they look really great !
<steph_> too bad it's not the same effect at normal size.
<kwwii> mgunes: a few of them are done, kinda hoping that others would pitch in as well :-)
<fruchtschwert> thats nice dana
<kwwii> we found that we need to make them smaller, the same size as the text
<kwwii> the clock text, I mena
<laughing_man> dana: i don't see the difference between this one and the first SS you posted.
<kwwii> mean
<fruchtschwert> can we have that stripe with murrine or clearlooks ?
<mgunes> kwwii, are they in bzr too?
<andreasn> kwwii: did you have the monocrome stuff in launchpad somewhere? I would like to do some more experiments for that as well
<kwwii> mgunes: yepp, human-panel-icons or such
<mgunes> ok
<mgunes> there's the issue of Firefox 3 using the standard folder icon at a very small size, making it look cramped, especially on small displays
<DanaG> The difference between that and the first is that the first is Aurora, and that is Nodoka.  Same color settings on both.
<kwwii> https://launchpad.net/human-panel-icons/
<kwwii> so beyond that we have the 8.10 stuff
<mgunes> the fact that it uses GTK theme elements is great, but this is an unfortunate side effect
<kwwii> moving forward, I think that we will see things really heat up soon
<kwwii> as hardy stuff clears up we will see more work towards the hardy+1 stuff
<kwwii> we have a bunch of stuff on the wiki, some of it very interesting
<laughing_man> can you link the wiki
<kwwii> getting that information and looking into alternatives is still at hand
<andreasn> mgunes: is this with human-icon-theme? I haven't ran into this issue with the regular gnome set, so I would consither that a bug in the icon set.
<mgunes> andreasn, yes, it's with the default icons we use
<kwwii> because we have so much new stuff with new code it will have to start very early in the cycle
<kwwii> mgunes: is it a reported bug? if not, please create a bug
<mgunes> kwwii, I will.
<fruchtschwert> so which icons are missing ?
<fruchtschwert> only for the panel ?
<kwwii> fruchtschwert: there are two icons missing which appear in a menu on the desktop (scale and expose)
<dsargeant> kwwii: laughing_man: is this the stuff of the wiki you were referring to? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate
<kwwii> I have an expose icon almost finished, if someone wants to help with the scale icon let me know
<sam7> i'd like to create an icon for the GDM, but i don't know how to do
<kwwii> in addition we need a new update icon for the panel
<kwwii> dsargeant: yes
<sam7> i agree, this one wasn't interesting
<mgunes> kwwii, any guidelines for the update icon? monochrome? exclamation mark or none? bright colors?
<fruchtschwert> are you considering using color for important icons ?
<sam7> it must be more modern
<laughing_man> dsargeant! yes, images! i can see these, this is what I need to understand what you guys are talking about!
<kwwii> mgunes: it should fit with the other human icons, and it does not necessarily have to be a star
<kwwii> some have an up arrow for update
<dsargeant> laughing_man: :)
<sam7> an icone whit 2 colors
<laughing_man> references... like i said i'm not a hardcore terminal using linux user!
<fruchtschwert> up-arrow sounds nice
<kwwii> others want a down arrow for "download new updates"
<fruchtschwert> :-)
<mgunes> you mean UPdates? :)
<fruchtschwert> what about a small ubuntu logo for updates ?
<andreasn> the default have a pretty clear metaphor, so it coult be a idea to just restyle that a bit
<kwwii> fruchtschwert: because we already have one of those in the panel
<mikemaccana> fruchtschwert: I think we might want to avoid over-using the ubuntu logo
<sam7> ok, but different of the main menu
<andreasn> can't remember from the top of my head what we used for firefox3 right now :/
<fruchtschwert> yeah, OK
<mgunes> using the ubuntu logo is probably not a good idea for derivatives
<sam7> with a scren in the midle
<kwwii> if anyone thinks of anything, let me know :-)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 192778 in human-gtk-theme "Form buttons in Firefox 3 should have transparent corners (dup-of: 195929)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/192778
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 195929 in gtk2-engines-murrine "Cosmetic bug: rectangular white outline surrounding rounded buttons" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/195929
<kwwii> or just draw the icons and then let me know, however you want :p
<sam7> wy not, make othe icones for the derivative
<dsargeant> laughing_man: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Documentation/GetInvolved
<fruchtschwert> what about a + symbol ?
<fruchtschwert> for "making things better" ?
<sam7> ok, verry good
<kwwii> not a bad idea, perhaps with something in the bg
<sam7> yes !
<fruchtschwert> do we have space for BG ? :-)
<kwwii> so, last but not least is the DeviantArt Theme Competition stuff
<mikemaccana> What abotu the existing hardy update logo
<mikemaccana> The orange star-type shape with down arrow?
<kwwii> mikemaccana: which one do you mean?
<fruchtschwert> there is a down arrow in it ?
<mikemaccana> kwwii: orange colored
<kwwii> yeah, that is the one that we were asked to work on
<fruchtschwert> i never recognized it
<sam7> why not ?
<mikemaccana> Ah. I quite liked it. It coneyed 'new' (the star shape) and 'downloads (the down arrow)
 * mikemaccana doesn't associate 'up' with updates the same way down is with downloads
<dsargeant> I liked it too; it got my attention.
<fruchtschwert> maybe I did not look close enough
<fruchtschwert> it wasn't that bad, though
<kwwii> mikemaccana: quite a few people said the same thing to me
<mgunes> kwwii, is this what we're talking about -> http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/384/ ?
<mikemaccana> that they liked it? or that 'up' doesn't mean 'updates'?
<dsargeant> is the objection becuase it looks like the application crashed icon?
<kwwii> but let's get to the last topic and keep this meeting under and hour
<kwwii> mgunes: yes! good start :-)
<kwwii> mikemaccana is the originator of the idea
<mikemaccana> Hey guys
<laughing_man> i think the deviantart idea is a good one. There are allready tons of Linux screen shots all over that site from users who customize the desktop how they like it.
<laughing_man> I think it's nice because it shows a full image and actually allows those who don't know all the techno-speak to see the product for themselves and weigh in on the details.
<mikemaccana> The basic idea is that there's a wider community of creative commons artists that aren't currently ubuntu contriutors
<laughing_man> I guess i'm just attracted to the graphical element of the idea.
<kwwii> I think that reaching out to a group of artists like deviantArt is interesting
<fruchtschwert> you should additionaly say which engine is to be used
<kwwii> but there are several issues at hand
<fruchtschwert> or several engines
<laughing_man> kwwii, such as?
<mikemaccana> We could engage them to make something great for 8.10 - and draw attention to ubuntu in that community as well
<mgunes> the obvious objection would be the "too many cooks" syndrome
<kwwii> making a theme and designing it over the course of years is more than can be dealt with in the course of one contest
<mikemaccana> mgunes: I understand what you're saying, but it's a simple competition, with the intention that mark shuttleworth choose the winner
<mikemaccana> (a few months out)
<kwwii> beyond all the normal things which could go wrong there is a lot of responsiblity taken when making such decisions and they are made long term, not short term
<mikemaccana> Deviantart are interested, and I have a meeting with them in the next few days
<laughing_man> deviantart is brimming with talent.
<mikemaccana> kwwii: Yep - per your suggestion I've limited the comp to wallpapers
<kwwii> I would be more interested in seeing some parts of things done by such a process first
<fruchtschwert> i think the people on the art list are not all brilliant designers .. they simply do their best, but with deviantart we could reach real professionals
<kwwii> mikemaccana: comp?
<mikemaccana> kwwii:competition.
<mgunes> if this is to happen, we'd need to have a very well coordinated art direction process.
<laughing_man> I agree with fruchtschwert...
<mikemaccana> mgunes: Yup indeed
<kwwii> mikemaccana: duh, right...english
<laughing_man> you people have spent alot of time learning linux... artist like myself have spent alot of time learning design.
<dsargeant> let our powers combine!
<mikemaccana> kwwii: I've updated https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/deviantart-theme-competition
<laughing_man> you may find the rare artist who is also a computer guru, but it's rare..
<mikemaccana> after our last conversation
<kwwii> mgunes: agreed, and in the end, with artwork, it is always a very tricky act to make things work well
<mikemaccana> Entrants would submit an original wallpaper to DeviantArt, marking them with the tag 'ubuntu810'. Entries must be:
<mikemaccana> * Beautiful.
<mikemaccana> * Distinct.
<mikemaccana> * CC licensed
<mikemaccana> * Submitted by their artist
<mikemaccana> * Work well as a wallpaper, with good contrast against white icon text, and not being too 'busy' to distract from the desktop contents
<mikemaccana> Â * Include a picture of the wallpaper on an Ubuntu desktop, with the entrant's preferred combination of icon / application / window themes.
<mikemaccana> * Editable in Open Source tools (Inkscape or Gimp). This means Photoshop files are OK, but may not use layer effects.
<mikemaccana> (suggest any other requirements in this meeting)
<mgunes> kwwii, actually, as you'll probably confirm, we need a much better defined and communicated art direction process -in any case-.
<kwwii> mikemaccana: that looks pretty good as far as I can see
<fruchtschwert> how do other OSs make their themes .. where do they get their professionals ?
<mikemaccana> kwwii: Do you know if mark wouldbe OK to judge a winner?
<mgunes> mikemaccana, limiting to wallpaper is a good idea that will cut down on the broken hearts and fuss :)
<laughing_man> fruchtschwert, they hire professional graphic designers.
<mikemaccana> mgunes: Aye indeed, thank kwwii tho, that was his idea
<laughing_man> they give them limits, and or a general theme.. and then sit back and see what they come up with
<laughing_man> and veto or confirm from there.
<laughing_man> it's the same process in all companies really..
<mikemaccana> like fruchtschwert said, there's professional artists that use deviantart to promote themselves
<laughing_man> mikemaccana, i disagree
<mikemaccana> for example, if anyone likes dance music, the guy that does all the artwork for 'hed kandi'
<laughing_man> i disagree completely.
<sam7> only 6 wallpaper is a good number, and 3 GDM by default (Heron, elephant and one other / orange and blue)
<mgunes> kwwii, I assume you'll be at UDS? do you plan to re-discuss the art-team spec?
<laughing_man> sorry mike, i read that wrong.
<mikemaccana> The artists get the benefit of having their work in front of 10 million-ish people, and the intention is to get some hardware prizes too
<kwwii> mikemaccana: to be honest, I am not sure how Mark will react to the idea...I guess it depends on how it is presented and on which terms... I think that perhaps even something like our promise to "include the pic in Ubuntu with the inclusion in the default wallpaper selection" or such
<sam7> why not using the starting music of ubuntustudio for the new LTS
<mikemaccana> laughing_man: ok, no probs
<kwwii> mikemaccana: and in any case I will have to discuss this with Mark to get the permission to think about it :-)
<mikemaccana> kwwii: Sure. Please do. :^)
<fruchtschwert> are we talking about themes or wallpapers ?
<kwwii> mikemaccana: I'll stay in touch with you on this
<kwwii> mgunes: yes, I will be at UDS
<mikemaccana> fruchtschwert: comp is for wallpapers, but they must be submitted with a suggested set of other theme elements
<kwwii> mikemaccana: I actually like that idea very much
<mikemaccana> fruchtschwert: so we know what it looks like as a theme
<kwwii>  as it offers more than just, what should the wallpaper be to the whole idea
<gp[]> sincerely at the moment, I don't know if a deviantart contest is a good idea....I think it is not simple
<laughing_man> first question they'll ask is
<laughing_man> #1. do i need to have a complete theme laid out in a screen shot? or just have the elements fixed together with the wallpaper?
<mikemaccana> kwwii: Asides from 'good contrast', 'not too busy', do we have any other stylistic guidelines?
<dsargeant> inkscape used deviantart successfully for their about page, seems similar
<sam7> each theme mus have its own icons (heron / elephant / other)
<kwwii> laughing_man: naturally, all of that would be explained
<laughing_man> well you didn't explain it well here :-P
<mikemaccana> dsargeant: ah good - I might borrow some ideas from inkscape's cmp then
<mikemaccana> That's probably helped inkscape get popular with artists in general
<kwwii> mikemaccana: yeah, plenty...the technical limitations aside things have to fit all across the computer experience (boot to shutdown), certain ubuntu specific things are definitely desired, etc
<kwwii> and sometimes just explaining all that is enough to ruin things :-D
<dsargeant> mikemaccana: see http://inkscapers.deviantart.com/journal/16001755/
<mikemaccana> kwwii: Does the theme need to reflect the 'linux for humans' concept in some way (I guess not since fela kuti doesn't)
<fruchtschwert> can't ubuntu search for professional designers wich are known to be good and willing to do some work without money ?
<fruchtschwert> that would be great but probably not easy
<mikemaccana> fruchtschwert: DeviantArt is a great way for them to come to us.
<kwwii> fruchtschwert: unrealistic
<laughing_man> kwwii.. not really
<sam7> fela kuti is werry good (i name it "heron" in this chan)
<kwwii> mikemaccana: no, that is a general idea behind things but not too be taken too literaly
<DanaG> Oh yeah, I have another idea about artwork:  have any of you seen the wallpaper-slideshow thing Fedora 8 does, where the wallpaper gradually fades over the day to match sunrise, noon, sunset, and night?  I'd love to see that implemented in Ubuntu.
<sam7> what do you think about my propositions ?
<kwwii> DanaG: yes we have looked into it and it does not look like we can do it for a couple of reason
<kwwii> s
<kwwii> my s ran on there :-(
<sam7> werry good idea DanaG
<mikemaccana> kwwii: Do we allow an unlimited palette (keep in mind the winner would still be determined by mark) or limit it to existing colors?
<DanaG> Fedora doesn't use gnome-settings-daemon, I think.  I haven't any clue what they DO use, though.
<kwwii> mikemaccana: nope, there would be a defined palette
<fruchtschwert> fixed palette is better ..
<kwwii> mikemaccana: I have a palette at hand which I can give you
<kwwii> I need to make installable versions for inkscape and gimp
<mikemaccana> kwwii: Thanks, please email.
<laughing_man> kwii i'd like the palette as well.
<kwwii> laughing_man: once I get the files ready I will post them to the list
<sam7> Is it possible to do something for dualscreen ?
<kwwii> and put them on the wiki
<laughing_man> what list?
<gp[]> yes, fixed palette is better for a contest
<kwwii> laughing_man: the email list ;-)
<mikemaccana> laughing_man: mailing list
<laughing_man> okay i'll sign up for the mailing list
<mikemaccana> I gather the palette is more orange than brown these days?
<DanaG> Oh yeah, can somebody link me to a mailing-list discussion of that slideshow thing, if in fact there is one?
<fruchtschwert> list https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
<kwwii> laughing_man: check out the wiki for all the iformation on joining the list, other stuff, etc
<sam7> for exemple, 1 theme in 1 desktop, and an other 1 in the other desktop / screen
<laughing_man> kwwii, i will and i'll have my students do the same.
<dsargeant> laughing_man: extra credit for a winning design?
<laughing_man> dsargent. A winning design for their portfolio is all the extra credit they need really.
<gp[]> sam7: it's another question
<kwwii> laughing_man: let me know if there is any way I can help with that :-)
<sam7> is ti possible to make different theme and wallpaper for different desktop and for dualscreen ?
<laughing_man> kwwii: just get me details about the palette and the specifications.
<laughing_man> that you're looking for.
<kwwii> sam7: dual screen situations are very hard to deal with
<laughing_man> and a deadline.
<fruchtschwert> sam7: don't think thats a good idea .. maybe a wallpaper, which spans across the screens
<fruchtschwert> but theme should be unique
<sam7> why ?
<sam7> too difficult to make ?
<sam7> i dont know how to make it
<kwwii> laughing_man: 8.10 is October 2008 so sometime by the middle of September is the cut-off
<andreasn> I'm sorry but I have to run off really soon
<fruchtschwert> it has to be professional .. and not polarizing
<kwwii> andreasn: thanks for stopping by
<laughing_man> kwwii, i'm going to join the mailing list now.. :-)
<fruchtschwert> and i think 2 themes are polarizing a bit
<kwwii> I think that we are pretty much done here for tonight
<fruchtschwert> is that the right word ?
<kwwii> laughing_man: cool, you can ask pretty much anything there
<kwwii> so, thanks everyone for coming
<kwwii> I'll post minutes to the meeting in a bit
<andreasn> kwwii: sorry for arriving a bit later
<fruchtschwert> thank you for inviting the community
<kwwii> next time will be more organized, I promise
<DanaG> Oh hey, is the mailing list also available as a newsgroup?
<sam7> the  minimum is one wallpaper for one desktop (i think)
<andreasn> kwwii: have a date for the next meeting?
<kwwii> andreasn: in one month
<andreasn> ok, great
<kwwii> see you soon
<kwwii> night all
<andreasn> I have to run! later!
<laughing_man> okay i've signed up for the mailing list, and i'll look into it further later tonight.
<andreasn> night!
<mgunes> good night
<laughing_man> night
<sam7> the week en like today is good for me
<fruchtschwert> good night
<mikemaccana> bye all
<gp[]> It has been a pleasure to be here
<dsargeant> same here
<gp[]> good night
<sam7> on satursday at 21UTS like today is good i think
<DanaG> Also, what were the reasons for not being able to do the slideshow thing?  (The mailing list isn't searchable, at least from the list-info page.)
<sam7> im happy to be here today
<Picklesworth> I have a vague recollection of GNOME working to have that functionality either for 2.22 or 2.24...
<sam7> thank you Kwwii
<Picklesworth> forget what they call it, though!
<kwwii> erm, if anyone has a log of this, send it to me
<DanaG> That Fedora Infinity thing is quite cool, and doesn't even require the extra system resources a video would.
<kwwii> I forget how to get irssi to show me the last stuff for copying
<sam7> if someone could tell me how to make icones, i will try to make one for GDM
<mgunes> DanaG: http://www.nabble.com/ubuntu-art-f12728.html
<gp[]> kwwii: i have the log
<DanaG> Hmm, I meant, to use it with Thunderbird via nntp.
<DanaG> Oh, but at least that gives a search.  Thanks!
<DanaG> Hmm, that human-clearlooks-mod linked here reminds me of tangerines (the fruit):  http://www.nabble.com/Alternative-gtk-themes-td15898786.html
<mgunes> DanaG, http://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.artwork
<gp[]> good night...good bay
<kwwii> yepp, goodnight all
<sam7> Someone could help me to make icones ?
<bmk789> @schedule EST
<ubotu> Schedule for EST: 12 Mar 16:00: Server Team | 19 Mar 16:00: Server Team | 26 Mar 16:00: Server Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-03-09
<txwikinger> @schedule
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-03-02
<davmor2> Guys in Jaunty Netbook remix I have a few questions and suggestions and some graphical bugs I'll add later.  Questions why are there so many dupes in apps? You have 2 dictionaries and 2 email clients.  Why are there a whole bunch of touch screen stufff when I don't know of a touch screen netbook (there may be one, just never heard of it)? Why is it not LPIA and i386 instead?  Suggestions Put the installer in favouri
<davmor2> Wrong channel sorry
<Mean-Machine> eveninkz all
<DougieRichardson> hello
<Mean-Machine> DougieRichardson, hiya
<DougieRichardson> wasn't sure I was logged in there - hope you're well
<Mean-Machine> not too bad now, how are you?
<DougieRichardson> Not bad at all
<Joeb454> hello forumsmatthew :)
<forumsmatthew> hello
<Bodsda> hi forumsmatthew
<forumsmatthew> Okay, it's about that time. I'm looking for board members: who is here so far?
<phanatic> forumsmatthew: hey
<forumsmatthew> ping Pricey popey Seveas markvandenborre and stgraber
<Seveas> pong
<forumsmatthew> yay! that's three of us
<highvoltage> forumsmatthew: how many makes a quorum? 3?
<forumsmatthew> we've always waited for at least 4
<forumsmatthew> there are 7 of us total
<Pricey> I'm here
<forumsmatthew> great!!
<forumsmatthew> anyone heard from mark, alan or stephane?
<forumsmatthew> hmm. okay. we can start with the four of us
<Seveas> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA
<Seveas> forumsmatthew, are you chairing today?
<forumsmatthew> I don't see butterflyoffire here...
<phanatic> yup
<forumsmatthew> no, I would prefer that you do it...I like it when you chair. i'm just feeling impatient today
<forumsmatthew> it's me, not you
<forumsmatthew> too much caffeine
<forumsmatthew> I will if you want me to, though
<Seveas> ok
<Seveas> I'll chair
<forumsmatthew> okay
<Seveas> LirazSiri, you're the first one for today, please introduce yourself to us in a few lines
<Seveas> other candidates for today, please prepare a 3-line intro in a text editor, which you can paste in here when it is your turn
<LirazSiri> Hi everyone
<LirazSiri> I'm from Israel, a software developer by trade, user of Ubuntu by hobby
<LirazSiri> I've also one of the founders of the TurnKey Linux project that packages Ubuntu into software appliances optimized for ease of use (www.turnkeylinux.org)
<LirazSiri> and a member of the Ubuntu News Team... currently in charge of all sorts of stats
<LirazSiri> (for UWN)
<LirazSiri> for those who want even more information my personal homepage is at liraz.org...
<LirazSiri> will that suffice for now?
<Seveas> I've read your wikipage and a launchpad profile, karma 3814, but pretty much all of it is spec tracking for turnkey. That makes UWN the only contribution to ubuntu we can take into account
<Seveas> Is there anyone here from the UWN team to cheer for you?
<LirazSiri> unfortunately no
<Pricey> What kind of "all sorts of stats"?
<LirazSiri> BTW, we sort of view TurnKey Linux as an extension of the Ubuntu community... It's not an official project but at the end of the day you get a pretty standard Ubuntu server with whatever application you want running. It's neat.
<Seveas> http://liraz.org/obfus.html --> I thought perl was obfuscated enough already? :)
<LirazSiri> Seveas: yeah, I have eclectic hobbies
<LirazSiri> :)
<LirazSiri> I'm in charge of all the statistics you see in UWN
<LirazSiri> about 6-7 sections usually
<LirazSiri> packages and updates, USN, bugstats, translation stats..
<LirazSiri> daniel's 5-a-day
<LirazSiri> it's not glamorous but somebody has to do it... :)
<Seveas> true that
<Seveas> I'm just not sure whether I'm willing to consider that a significant contribution. That would much depend on what other UWN editors have to say I think
<LirazSiri> well I wish they were here
<forumsmatthew> I like what you are doing, but it would be much easier to evaluate with a testimonial from the UWN folks, even a note on your wiki page
<Seveas> LirazSiri, a short blurb on your wikipage from them will work as well
<LirazSiri> hmmm...
<Seveas> I'm going for +0: You seem to be doing good work, but I'd like to see that confirmed by other UWN people before I can give a +1
<LirazSiri> I guess that's my punishment for not socializing enough with my fellow team members on IRC :)
<forumsmatthew> I'm hesitant because there is no independent confirmation. For now, I am +0. That isn't a negative, but I can't give an approval without some testimonial.
<forumsmatthew> it's not fair that Seveas types faster than me
<Seveas> LirazSiri, in a way you are right, the more you mingle within the team or the community, the better :)
<Seveas> forumsmatthew, sorry mate :)
<forumsmatthew> :)
<Seveas> phanatic, Pricey ?
<Pricey> See now I typed out a paragraph saying that, but Seveas beat me.
<LirazSiri> Seveas: I know, but IRC is such a huge time sink... bah, haven't gotten around to it
<phanatic> just wanted to say the same as well
<phanatic> +0
<Pricey> I'm afraid I agree LirazSiri, and I would like to see testimonials from the uwn folks at the least when you come back to us soon! :)
<Seveas> LirazSiri, so to summarize, please keep up the good work, get some of the other editors to cheer for you and next time you're in :)
<LirazSiri> alright guys, thank you for your consideration
<forumsmatthew> LirazSiri, you don't have to hang out in IRC. You could have the UWN guys post a quick note on your wiki page
<Seveas> larslj, you're up next
<forumsmatthew> send them a note saying you are applying for membership and ask if they can help
<larslj> Hi everyone
<larslj> My name is Lars Ljung and I'm a server administrator for the Swedish LoCo web server. I'm also an very active member of the forum where I'm trying to help both beginners and more experienced users.
<LirazSiri> forumsmatthew: got it. thanks guys
<Seveas> larslj, your wikipage is really short, can you give some more details about your work, or maybe a link to a forum profile?
<forumsmatthew> I see you have a testimonial from yeager. Is yeager an Ubuntu member? Do you have a link to his wiki/launchpad page?
<Seveas> https://edge.launchpad.net/~yeager
<larslj> My contributions are mostly in Swedish, the forum profile is at http://ubuntu-se.org/phpBB3/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=2195
<forumsmatthew> thanks
<larslj> https://launchpad.net/~yeager
<Seveas> I remember when yeager was approved :)
<forumsmatthew> I probably should...
<Seveas> drat. That forum wants me to log in before I can see the profile.
<phanatic> he's a pretty awesome translator
<larslj> Seveas: aha, too bad, 4661 post since Jan-07 if you take my word for it
<Seveas> I managed to grasp enough swedish to register :)
<andol> I'm a fellow server administratior and member of the Swedish LoCo. If it helps I can testimate to Lars forum contributions.
<larslj> thanks andol :)
<Nafallo> Seveas: hehe. nice e-mail address ;-)
<Seveas> ey Nafallo
<Seveas> are you here to cheer as well? :)
<Pricey> Hey Nafallo, do you have anything to say?
<Nafallo> Seveas, Pricey: hmm. haven't really been involved in looking at the server more than the hosting I'm afraid.
<Seveas> k
<forumsmatthew> I am pretty familiar with forum work. The administration of the loco server is a good contribution, too. The testimonies of yeager, and now andol, are useful to me. If the post count is accurate, I'm +1
<Seveas> I'm going for +1 anyway, cheer from yaeger and from a co-admin, good post count (though I can't understand a word of it)
<Seveas> forumsmatthew, it is accurate :)
<Seveas> Joined:
<Seveas>     14 Jan 2007, 18:31
<Seveas> Last visited:
<Seveas>     Today, 21:10
<Seveas> Total posts:
<Seveas>     4661
<larslj> I also do a bit of bug triaging when I got the time, but I guess you can see that on my karma
<forumsmatthew> thanks for checking. I'm a definite +1 then
<Seveas> larslj, feel free to delete my account on the forums again (user 'seveas', just registered ;))
<forumsmatthew> I'll trust the testimonials re: the content
<Seveas> yeah, me too
<larslj> Seveas: ok, I'll do that
<Seveas> forumsmatthew, the profile also shows he's an admin and posts mostly in the server forum. Hard to fill almost 5000 posts with gibberish I'd say :)
<forumsmatthew> agreed
<Seveas> Pricey, phanatic?
<Pricey> I think I'm happy to give my +1 too from the testimonials and history on the forum.
<phanatic> +1
<Seveas> Excellent, welcome larslj!
<forumsmatthew> congratulations
<phanatic> larslj: how many registered users do you have?
<larslj> Thank you, I'm honored :)
<larslj> phanatic: about 11000 I think
<Seveas> forestpixie, you're next in line
<forestpixie> hi
<phanatic> larslj: very nice, congratulations and welcome :)
<forestpixie> Hi, I'm 46 acting like a 20 year old, I have no formal IT training and all I know has been self learnt. I've been using Ubuntu since May 07 - I am a member of the forum Beginner Team and the Unanswered Post team. Also I am in a few of the UFBT focus groups - Education and IRC help. I have been involved in lessons on IRC in #ubuntu-classroom - I ran a fdisk/fstab/chmod/chown session a short while ago - the hope is to run it every 6 mon
<forestpixie> ths to coincide with Ubuntu releases. I have started to migrate my session to a wiki based groups of lessons which will be obviously be available more frequently. I have recently joined the wiki focus group and hope to get involved with that more shortly. I don't program or anything like that - all of my contributions have been in helping other users.
<Seveas> "I had a near miss causing all my previous contributions to the forum to be mislaid - good job Matthew was there to pick up the pieces"
<Seveas> just curious, what happened?
<forestpixie> :)
<forumsmatthew> I posted a testimonial on his wiki page at the bottom with details
<forestpixie> someone died - I found the thread - reported it and then I got dealt with accidentally
<forestpixie> great fun lol
<forumsmatthew> I stand by my recommendation and will +1 while you all are reading
<Seveas> forumsmatthew, damn, that's some testimonial you give
<drubin> forumsmatthew: can we step in how and voice our +1 for forestpixie
<drubin> *now
<Seveas> drubin, cheers are always welcome
<forestpixie> they all humbled me tbh Seveas
<Pricey> Wow lots of testimonials
<forumsmatthew> drubin, yes
<drubin> o/ for forestpixie
<Seveas> Pricey, yeah, hard not to say +1
<Seveas> So yeah, +1, no doubt.
<Seveas> We need more people like forestpixie
 * cprofitt raises hand in support of forestpixie
<Joeb454> I believe I already gave a testimonial for forestpixie
<Joeb454> I'll +1 him again here anyways :)
<lukjad007> o/ for forestpixie
<Seveas> I like this, you brought a whole cheering section :)
<cprofitt> And from far away lands
<Pricey> Half the forums mod team on there... :)
<forumsmatthew> note to all: this is the way to apply for membership
<forestpixie> ha ha - I can never keep them quiet
<cprofitt> I am at work and made a point of taking a break just to support forestpixie
<phanatic> impressive work, impressive testimonials, +1 from me
<Seveas> cprofitt, tsk, why do you need a break for IRC? :)
<cprofitt> Seveas, ask my boss...
<Seveas> :)
<cprofitt> on second thought - don't
 * cprofitt smiles
<Seveas> hehe
<Seveas> Pricey, your vote please
<Pricey> Sorry, +1! :)
<forumsmatthew> congratulations
<Seveas> Launchpad says: "forestpixie (the-piskie) has been added as a member of this team."
<Seveas> welcome aboard!
<forestpixie> ty all very much - /me feels more humble :D
<drubin> forestpixie: well done~!!
 * cprofitt congratulates forestpixie 
<lukjad007> Yay for forestpixie!
<forestpixie> ty all who shouted too :)
<ScorpKing> congrats forestpixie :)
<walterl> congrats forestpixie
<Seveas> forestpixie, keep up the good work, I really mean it when I say we need more people like you.
<forestpixie> :) nice to be recognised
<Seveas> DougieRichardson, you're next in line, please introduce yourself
<DougieRichardson> Hi, I'm Dougie -  I've been contributing to the Documentation and Desktop Training Teams since mid 2007
<DougieRichardson> and assisting with training/mentoring new students. I've also been assisting in the unanswered
<DougieRichardson> posts team on the forums for about the same amount of time.
<Seveas> omg... he knows COBOL...
 * Seveas runs in fear :)
<DougieRichardson> lol - it rots the mind
<DougieRichardson> and shows my age
<highvoltage> Seveas: never mind that, he used slackware for 11 years :)
<Seveas> highvoltage, :)
<Seveas> any docteam members around as cheering section?
<Seveas> or forum members from the unanswered posts part?
<Seveas> wb forumsmatthew
<forestpixie> no but I know him from the UA team
<forumsmatthew> thanks. my xserver crashed
<forumsmatthew> weird
<DougieRichardson> i dont't think there are, which is a shame after forest pixie!
<phanatic> you have quite impressive testimonials on your wiki page, too
<DougieRichardson> thankyou
<Seveas> DougieRichardson, well, you have testimonials on your page from Belinda and Billy, that's equally impressive
<Seveas> "Billy Cina: Always one of the first to volunteer to help and the quality is top notch. Very dependable member of the team. We need more Dougies, can somebody pursue cloning on behalf of Ubuntu Training!! "
<Seveas> I'm afraid we cannot endorse cloning though :)
<forumsmatthew> I am catching up. The testimonials look great!
<DougieRichardson> thanks
<Seveas> +1, mainly due to the excellent recommendations from Belinda and Billy, confirming the good work explained on the wikipage
 * cprofitt ponders cloning
<phanatic> +1, keep up the good work, documentation is essential on the route towards fixing bug 1
<ubottu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1 (Timeout)
<forumsmatthew> what's your forum username?
<DougieRichardson> ddrichardson
<DougieRichardson> (its a mistype of drichardson lol)
<forumsmatthew> http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=344000
<forumsmatthew> wow, great stats and help! (thank you)
<Pricey> I feel like I shouldn't be asking, but would I know Billy Cina by another name?
<forumsmatthew> how have you escaped my notice?
<forumsmatthew> :)
<forumsmatthew> +1
<Seveas> Pricey, not many people in the community know billy. She focuses mostly on training partnerships. I know her (and Belinda) because I was one of the people 'testdriving' the first version of the ubuntu certified proessional training
<Pricey> Ah right, thanks Seveas.
<Pricey> Well yep, +1 from me then too!
<Seveas> excellent
<Seveas> launchpad now says you're a member, welcome aboard!
<DougieRichardson> Excellent! Thanks very much!
<highvoltage> congrats DougieRichardson
<forumsmatthew> congratulations
<DougieRichardson> thanks all
<Seveas> drubin, you're up next
<highvoltage> \o\ drubin /o/
 * Bodsda cheers
<drubin> Hi my name is David Rubin, I am a 22 year old Mobile Developer and Open source enthusiast. I started using linux because work dictated our servers were Centos to gain a better understanding I installed ubuntu as my primary desktop OS. This was just over 2 years ago.
<drubin> I struggled alot as a beginner and understand how hard it can be to change over hence my reasoning for helping out new comers the way I do. Even though I am a Developer my main contributions are to the home user rather then bug patching as I find this to be more rewarding personally.
<lukjad007> o/ for drubin
<drubin> I also try and blog about ubuntu when I find topics that haven't been written about countless times :).
<drubin> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/drubin
<superfly> \o/ drubin!
<nelydajo> o/ for drubin
<Seveas> Are you related to Pici (Benjamin Rubin) perhaps? :)
<drubin> Seveas: I don't think so.
 * cprofitt Raises had for Drubin
<lukjad007> Rah! Rah! for drubin!
<drubin> but there aren't that many rubin's will look into it after Seveas
<walterl> yay for drubin!
<hibana> this guy keeps us on our toes in #ubuntu-za and gets a definite +1 from me
 * Bodsda throws flowers at drubin's feet
<forumsmatthew> now that's a cheering squad!
 * forestpixie is here for drubin too 
 * ScorpKing hangs flowers around drubin's neck.. ;)
<cprofitt> I have to admit to the group that I did not know that Drubin was up and did not add a testimonial. I have no excuse and do not wish that to be an issue. Drubin has my full support for Ubuntu Membership.
<drubin> cprofitt: thanks. No worries I only added it on thursday
<Pricey> a rather large testimonial from forestpixie :)
 * walterl bows before drubin 
<drubin> Pricey: I was shocked when I first read it. but is really nice of him
<Seveas> cheering squad good, testimonials good, even scored one from highvoltage
<forumsmatthew> +1
<drubin> the reasoning for me adding my name so late. was an event that happened last week end.
<forestpixie> it took some thought Pricey
<drubin> Seveas: even?
<drubin> Seveas: Doesn't he give it out willingly, maybe the payment was infact large enough :)
<Seveas> drubin, :)
<cprofitt> I need to depart - good luck drubin
<Seveas> I meant that highvoltage is a long time contributor and well known member, opinions from such people tend to carry more weight :)
<drubin> Seveas: :)
<highvoltage> I should never have told Seveas that I'm susseptable to flattery :)
<superfly> hahaha
<drubin> highvoltage: glad you did
<Joeb454> lol
<Seveas> highvoltage, you mean bribery apparently :P
<phanatic> +1, great cheering team :)
<highvoltage> rofl
<Joeb454> +1 for drubin over here too :)
<Seveas> +1 here as well
<Bodsda> Go drubin!!!!!
 * Joeb454 is a little busy, luckily noticed
<lukjad007> YAY drubin!!!
<highvoltage> \o\ \o/ /o/
<hibana> congrats drubin
 * drubin thanks Joeb454
<Seveas> hibana, not yet :)
<Joeb454> :)
<superfly> \o\ \o/ /o/ drubin!
 * drubin waits for Pricey
<walterl> gimme a D! ...
<walterl> ok, i won't go on :P
<Pricey> I'm 'almost' lost with the amount of people with good things to say and am confident with my +1!
<forumsmatthew> congratulations
<Bodsda> \0/    \0/    \0/        Go drubin        \0/    \0/    \0/
<superfly> awwww, I was gonna join you on that one walterl
<DougieRichardson> congratulations
<highvoltage> \o\
<hibana> drubin: you're the local hero
<superfly> woohoo!! drubin!!
<Bodsda> YAY!!!!!!!!
<walterl> CONGRATS, drubin !!!!!!
<nelydajo> Way to go drubin!!
<Bodsda> !yay | drubin
<ubottu> drubin: Glad you made it! :-)
<forestpixie> o/ drubin :D
<lukjad007> WHOOHOO drubin!!!
<Seveas> congrats drubin. Now can you please calm down your cheering section? :)
<Bodsda> drubin drubin drubin
<drubin> Seveas: Not sure I can do that :)
<walterl> drubin drubin drubin !!!
<lukjad007> DRUBIN!!!
<drubin> Thanks guys!!
<Bodsda> :)
<lukjad007> :D
<drubin> much much appriciated! really
<highvoltage> ok guys let's move the party to #ubuntu-za, people are trying to work here
<Seveas> Mean-Machine, you're the next (and last) on the list for today
 * Bodsda shuts up
<Mean-Machine> Hello! My name is Maciej Danielski and I am the LoCo Team Point of Contact for the Irish Ubuntu Community since the end of January 2008.
<Mean-Machine> I first came into contact with ubuntu-ie while still living in Germany, in early summer 2007, through both IRC and the forums. I moved over to Dublin in November 2007 and started getting more and more involved with the LoCo, chairing and scheduling regular ubuntu-ie IRC meetings, throwing ideas at people like organizing ubuntu events etc.
<drubin> party in #ubuntu-za and #ubuntuforums-beginners
<walterl> good luck to the rest of you
<Mean-Machine> My aim is to encourage the LoCo members with new projects and ideas in order to 	  	  establish a stable, active and outgoing community.
<Pricey> ompaul lives! haven't spoken with him in a while.
<czajkowski> Pricey: he does indeed and says he totally supports Mean-Machine tonight but he's at class this evening
<Mean-Machine> Pricey, indeed ompaul is alive and well
<forumsmatthew> The testimonials are good
<forumsmatthew> His participation in SFD was critical to it's success in Dublin
<czajkowski> +1 for Mean-Machine for me, he's a great loco team point of contact here in dublin.
 * Pricey looks at pictures
<Seveas> How many people are active in the irish loco?
<Mean-Machine> Seveas, we have around 10 active members.
<Seveas> http://www.flickr.com/photos/mean-machine/2874667227/ -- he is alive!
<Seveas> I'm going for +1 after reading wiki, lp and things linked from them
<Mean-Machine> 73 people are members in total in Launchpad
<Mean-Machine> 89 subscribed to mailing list
<forumsmatthew> I'm going to have to agree +1
<Mean-Machine> theose people still need to be encouraged tho
<czajkowski> Seveas: http://pix.ie/czajkowski/688107/in/album/327350  ompaul giving a talk here for the Ubuntu-ie SFD event
<Seveas> http://pix.ie/czajkowski/688105/in/album/327350 - looks like he's thinking "I'm not even going to dignify that with an answer"
<czajkowski> Seveas: very possibly :)
<Mean-Machine> a bit of a roadmap for the near future
<Mean-Machine> I will keep trying to motivate existing members and to draw the attention of potential ones 	  by organizing Ubuntu related events and targeting existing user groups (ILUG etc.). The 	  next event this year will be the release party of Jaunty(+install fest?). Also, in May I'd like 	  to run another bug jam. In early August I'm planning to organize a LoCo key signing party. 	  Furthermore, we hope to at least repeat the success o
<Mean-Machine> f last year's SoftwareFreedomDay in 	  September '09, where I will be using existing press contacts to promote the event, and this 	  will be followed by Ubuntu 9.10 release party in October.
<Mean-Machine> Another aim for this year is to resurrect the Ubuntu Irish Translation Team. Will email all 	  members of this team and will also ask on our mailing list if people are interested in 	  	  translating Ubuntu into Irish.
<Mean-Machine> At the moment I'm working on proper structuring of the Irish Team, by asking for     	  	  volunteers to take over specific tasks and duties. In the near future I would like to see a 	  number of tasks (i.e. Monthly LoCo Reports, Hosting IRC Meetings, Mailing List 	  	  Moderation, Wiki Maintenance etc.) delegated to either individuals or groups, so we can 	  work as an efficient and well organized team.
<Pricey> Its great to see photos of successful events like that and you've got some good testimonials too so I'm happy to +1.
<Seveas> phanatic, ?
<phanatic> +1, will the drop in centre be open this saturday? i might drop by ;)
 * popey arrives unfashionably late
<czajkowski> popey: evening
<forumsmatthew> hey popey
<Seveas> popey, exactly at the point where the last vote is cast even :)
<Seveas> Mean-Machine, welcome aboard!
<forumsmatthew> we are just finishing up
<forumsmatthew> congratulations, Mean-Machine
<Mean-Machine> thank you all!
<DougieRichardson> Mean-Machine: Congratulations
<czajkowski> Mean-Machine: kudos :)
<forestpixie> Mean-Machine: congrats
<Mean-Machine> I'm delighted :)
<Mean-Machine> czajkowski, cheers!
<Mean-Machine> Congratulations to all who have been approved tonight!
<forumsmatthew> thanks, everyone!
<forumsmatthew> I have to get going now
<DougieRichardson> Thanks again - see you all around
<drubin> thanks forumsmatthew, and the rest of the team
<forestpixie> thank you !
<Seveas> thanks all, see you next time
<Mean-Machine> thanks a mill!
<Seveas> oh and can somebody else please do the doodle dance, I have shown I'm incapable of actually scheduling the meeting, even when the doodle was filled in :)
<czajkowski> Seveas: :)
<czajkowski> Seveas: it's monday! it has that effect
<Seveas> czajkowski, it wasn't monday when I forgot the meeting. phanatic fortunately picked up the pieces and did the doodle dance for this one
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-03-03
<mahinda> quit
<anuradha> Hello...
<anuradha> hello all, is any one here.
<MaWaLe> hi anuradha
<anuradha> hi, MaWaLe..
<anuradha> sorry i ran out a bit.
<anuradha> when is the meeting starting? or is it over by now :)
<MaWaLe> actually there is no meeting
<MaWaLe> the first one will be at 15UTC
<anuradha> ah
<MaWaLe> you can see the planning here : http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar
<MaWaLe> and please : can we stop to post here just to keep the log clean : thx
<highvoltage> asac: I just read your latest dent. wouldn't it be better to use alternatives for that?
<asac> highvoltage: i think its an exceptional situation
<asac> due to recent python transition
<asac> so i can do that manually  ;)
<asac> in general we dont want alternatives for python
<asac> as we rely on a certain python being the default
<asac> whether that could be done better is a different point ;)
<highvoltage> asac: good point
 * persia peers about
<knome> persia, o/
<hito_jp> yes? o/
<persia> Well, that's three of the five candidates present.  Now we just need some more board members.
<knome> persia, do you really need 'em? ;)
<persia> knome, Absolutely.  Without quorum there cannot be an expression of consensus.
<knome> :)
<persia> Well, 20 minutes past and nobody else here.  Sorry about that.  Let's try again next time.
<knome> duh.
<nizarus> :(
<cody-somerville> :(
<knome> that is really sad.
<knome> these regional boards are not quite working.
<MaWaLe> :( :( :( :( for me
<persia> knome, How do you mean?
<knome> persia, i've waited to get membership since december 21st. i've missed the emea meeting twice for personal reasons.
<knome> persia, and that's it for the meetings of emea this year.
<knome> persia, and now when i'm here, i can't get membership because the board members are not here.
<knome> persia, so you can maybe see my frustration?
<persia> knome, Hrm.  I can see how you are frustrated, but I'm not sure how to advise you.
<knome> persia, it's part of our (xubuntu) strategy to get people blogging on planet, but due to this i have been unable to do that.
<persia> I'm not familiar with the details of the EMEA board, but meeting only once a month doesn't seem completely unreasonable, depending on the agenda.  Personally, I'd prefer to see twice a month or more, but that might just be me.
<knome> persia, it's ok, i've already contacted mdke.
<knome> persia, the first one was january 5th and the second one yesterday, so that leaves quite a gap, even if it was once a month.
<persia> As for the AsiaOceania board: we're short a couple members, and spread over lots of timezones.  We've been struggling with this, and sometimes everyone can get here early enough/stay up late enough, and sometimes not.
<knome> i understand.
<persia> knome, Ah, that sounds more like once every two months: yes, that is a bit of a gap.
<knome> but maybe you should not announce a meeting if the members can't attend?
<knome> because now i've arranged some time from my schedule which i could have used way better.
<persia> I'll definitely raise that option with the other members.  We've tried to keep regular meetings, and tried to attend them all, but perhaps it makes more sense to have fewer meetings with more attendance.
<knome> yeah. and one thing i think would make big difference in the better way is to inform about these meetings earlier.
<persia> How do you mean?
<knome> i know this is sometimes impossible and of course hard in the situation you have, but it would be much better for the people who are trying to get the membership.
<knome> i've followed the regional board pages on the wiki, and the meetings dates are issued quite late. after that, a bunch of people suddenly adds theirselves in the list.
<knome> and that makes the other people wait, because the board members might think that "oh, there's only 3 members pending. let's not keep a meeting"
<persia> Actually, we never decide not to have a meeting just because there aren't many applicants.
<persia> It's better to have a quick meeting, with 0 or 1 applicants.
<knome> yeah, but that might have been the case with emea. i don't know.
<persia> More than about three tends to make us go over-time, which is annoying (especially when it's late).
<persia> I can't speak for them, but I suspect it's more a matter of feeling pressure from there being many pending applicants than about deciding not to have a meeting because there aren't so many.
<knome> yeah. but still everybody who is applying for membership should get into the process as soon as possible.
<knome> and not seeing when the next meeting is makes the applier maybe a bit hesitant to add his name to the list, because he might not be able to attend.
<persia> I agree to that.
<knome> and i've seen those dates appearing under a week before the meeting.
<knome> that's a really short timespan.
 * charlie-tca thinks they appeared with about 24 hours notice for knome
<persia> I'm not sure which is the better model though: the model that AsiaOceania has adopted, where we try to hold regular meetings, and sometimes fail to achieve quorum, or the model where meetings are announced only when they are firm, leading to confusion about the date until the agenda is full.
<persia> I believe both are likely frustrating.
<knome> yeah. but maybe announce the meeting and then if it looks like you can't make it, then just make a note on the wiki.
<knome> and try to keep that meeting as soon as possible after that date.
<persia> I guess.  I'm not that fussed whether attendance is decided on the wiki or via email, but I agree it's better not to be surprised.  There ought be some announcement of when a meeting will be cancelled, and we ought know at least before the meeting starts, especially as people from all over the globe might need to attend as part of a set of supporters for a given candidate.
<knome> yeah.
<persia> Anyway, I'll definitely raise this within AsiaOceania, and we'll see if we can't get better about that.
<knome> yeah. thanks. :)
<persia> If we find a model that works, we'll surely share with the other boards.
<knome> how about the *buntu* co-operation meeting? :)
<persia> Someone needs to organise that :)
<knome> pick any date.
<persia> Maybe in a couple of weeks?  Say around the 18th
<knome> March 18th, 16UTC ?
<knome> or is that too late for you?
<persia> Well, 16 is very late for me, but probably good for most of the people you need to attend.
<persia> I wouldn't worry about it if I can't be there.
<knome> ok.
<persia> Better to focus on the team leads for the various flavour teams.
<knome> i'll add it in the fridge. which places would you suggest mailing/etc.?
<persia> I know some are in Europe, and some in the US, so 16-20 UTC is probably the right timeframe.
<knome> there's already meeting on that day and time.
<persia> Probably just ubuntu-devel@: everyone affected ought be subscribed.  You might bcc: the team leads, just to be sure.
<knome> how about March 16 ?
<persia> Then pick a different day/time :)
<persia> Mondays are often a holiday somewhere: check first.
<knome> nope. at least my calendar tells so.
<knome> i'll add it there then. let's shift it if needed.
<persia> knome, Good luck with it.
<knome> persia, thanks. hope to see you then :)
<sommer> hey all
<ivoks> o/
<SuperVHS> hello
 * mathiaz waves
<ttx> \o
<mathiaz> anyone else for the server team meeting?
<nijaba> o/
<mathiaz> allright let's get this started
<SuperVHS> yes.. I'm
<mathiaz> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:02. The chair is mathiaz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<mathiaz> ttx: thanks for running the meeting last time
<ttx> mathiaz: it was a pleasure.
<mathiaz> ttx: and for preparing and sending the minutes out there - very much appreciated :)
<mathiaz> Today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<mathiaz> last week's minutes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20090224
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] SRU bug tracking
<MootBot> New Topic:  SRU bug tracking
<mathiaz> ivoks: any news^^?
<ivoks> sorry, i didn't have time to prepare topic as i wanted, so i didn't put it on agenda
<mathiaz> ivoks: np - still on track to talk about it?
<ivoks> so, if it's not a problem to postpone it for next meeting...
<mathiaz> ivoks: np
<ivoks> mathiaz: sure, i think that's a very important issue
<mathiaz> ivoks: it seems that this topic ought to be well prepared
<ivoks> of course
<mathiaz> ivoks: so we can defer it to the next meeting
<ivoks> yes
<mathiaz> ivoks: so when you're ready to discuss could you add an item on the agenda?
<ivoks> correct
<ivoks> err... yes :D
<mathiaz> [ACTION] ivoks to add to the server team agenda an item about better SRU bugtracking  when ready
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ivoks to add to the server team agenda an item about better SRU bugtracking  when ready
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Postfix and Dovecot integration
<MootBot> New Topic:  Postfix and Dovecot integration
<mathiaz> ivoks: any news^^?
<mathiaz> has some testing been done?
<mathiaz> ivoks: or did you receive any feedback on the proposal?
<ivoks> well, i didn't recieve any feedback yet :/
<ivoks> maybe i should blog about it
<ivoks> :)
<zul> hello
<mathiaz> ivoks: I've seen some blog post about it (from a romanian blog)
<ivoks> mathiaz: me too
<ivoks> but that's it
<mathiaz> ivoks: but yes - blogging about it may be a good idea
<mathiaz> ivoks: I've already posted a post on the ubuntu server blog - so doing another one way may not be the best option
<mathiaz> ivoks: could do one on your blog?
<ivoks> mathiaz: that is the plan
<mathiaz> ivoks: great - thanks
<mathiaz> [ACTION] ivoks to blog about the postfix dovecot integration
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ivoks to blog about the postfix dovecot integration
<ivoks> and... we could remove it from roadmap
<ivoks> since it has been implemented
<mathiaz> ivoks: roadmap updated!
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Ubuntu and EC2
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu and EC2
<mathiaz> zul: ^^?
<zul> hi
<zul> so the second beta2 was relased last week with lots of new features and bug fixes
<zul> you can read how to get started at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EC2StartersGuide
<zul> and join the ec2-beta list at the regular place.
<zul> oh yeah these are intrepid images and Im working on jaunty and hardy versions i386/amd64 this week
<mathiaz> zul: I've seen a couple of request/comments that the program is not free.
<mathiaz> zul: it seems that there is some confusion around the fact that you still have to pay for EC2 even though the beta is free.
<mathiaz> zul: should the documentation be updated?
<zul> mathiaz: thats correct its in the faq
<mathiaz> zul: where is the faq?
<zul> it costs nothing to use the images but amazon charges you to use the service
<mathiaz> zul: right - but it seems that the message doesn't get through since some people on the mailing have complained about it
<zul> mathiaz: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EC2FAQ#How%20much%20does%20it%20cost%20to%20run%20Ubuntu%20on%20EC2?
<nijaba> mathiaz: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EC2FAQ
<zul> mathiaz: they arent reading the rtfm hard enough then ;)
<mathiaz> nijaba: zul: do you think this aspect of the beta program should be improved?
<ivoks> there are also footnotes on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EC2StartersGuide
<nijaba> mathiaz: I do not what to do, we cannot force people to read
<nijaba> mathiaz: every page I created mention the cost issue
<mathiaz> nijaba: what about adding a note in the welcome message when users join the beta mailing list?
<nijaba> mathiaz: what would make them read this more than any other text?
<zul> bold it or something
<nijaba> mathiaz: plus the beta program is now very open, the images do not require registration anymore
<mathiaz> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EC2StartersGuide still mentions that the kernel/ramdisk aren't public
<mathiaz> in the section: Using the Ubuntu Imags
<zul> mathiaz: because im in the middle of updating it :)
<mathiaz> in the section: Using the Ubuntu Images
<mathiaz> zul: oh - ok.
<mathiaz> ok - let's move on.
<mathiaz> zul: anything else on this front?
<zul> mathiaz: nope
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Bug Day: samba
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Bug Day: samba
<mathiaz> so I've talked with the QA team and we're going to have a Bug day about samba next week
<ttx> \o/
<mathiaz> next Thursday, March 12th
<mathiaz> in preparation I've written a debugging samba page
<mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingSamba
<zul> yay!
<mathiaz> reviews of this page is welcome
<mathiaz> if you think about other common situations please add them to it
<mathiaz> the QA team will prepare a list of bugs to target during the hug day next week
<mathiaz> hm - the bug list will be prepared this week and I'll review it
<mathiaz> so that we can leverage the whole bug triagging community to deal with samba bugs
<mathiaz> I think we should target NEW and INCOMPLETE bugs
<mathiaz> anything else to add related to the samba bug day?
<mathiaz> could we coordinate blog posts announcing it?
<mathiaz> ttx: ?
<ttx> mathiaz: sure.
<zul> making sure that the duplicate bugs are taken care of
<mathiaz> so there will be a mention of the samba bug day today on the ubuntuserver blog
<ttx> Also making sure that confirmed are really confirmed
<ttx> mathiaz: ok, I'll echo that
<mathiaz> ttx: what about you blogging about the samba bug day this thurday?
<zul> also turning up the debug information for the samba logs
<ttx> mathiaz: will do. I'll also make sure to review the DebuggingSamba page before that.
<mathiaz> ttx: or may be monday?
<ttx> Monday is good, unless you have another echo-man
<mathiaz> kirkland: ^^?
<mathiaz> ttx: I could also echo it on my blog
<mathiaz> ttx: so how about that plan:
<mathiaz> today: ubuntuserver (via minutes)
<mathiaz> thursday: my blog (unique blog post)
<mathiaz> monday: ttx blog (unique blog post)
<mathiaz> next thursday: ubuntuserver (via minuteS)
<mathiaz> next *tuesday*: ubuntuserver (via minuteS)
<ttx> worksforme.
<mathiaz> next Thursday: ubuntuserver (unique blog post)
<mathiaz> plus the normal announcement from the bug team (ubuntu-bugsquad@)
<mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz to blog about samba bug day on Thursday
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to blog about samba bug day on Thursday
<mathiaz> [ACTION] ttx to blog about samba bug day on Monday
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ttx to blog about samba bug day on Monday
<mathiaz> and I'm sure we can ask kirkland to do something too :)
<nijaba> mathiaz: I can as well if you want
<mathiaz> that also mean some of us should hang out with the QA team to help out with bug triaggers next Thursday
<mathiaz> nijaba: sure - could you do one next Wednesday?
<nijaba> mathiaz: np
<mathiaz> [ACTION] nijaba to blog about samba bug day next Wednesday
<MootBot> ACTION received:  nijaba to blog about samba bug day next Wednesday
<mathiaz> ttx: will you be around next Thursday?
<ttx> mathiaz: yes, I will.
<mathiaz> ttx: great - could you cover the first part of the hug day?
<mathiaz> ttx: I'll take the second one then
<ttx> yep
<mathiaz> [ACTION] ttx to cover the first part of the samba hug day
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ttx to cover the first part of the samba hug day
<mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz to cover the second part of the samba hug day
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to cover the second part of the samba hug day
<mathiaz> great - that's all for the samba hug day
<mathiaz> anything else to add on this topic?
<mathiaz> nope - let's move on
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Open discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open discussion
<nealmcb>  I've been talking with ljl in #ubuntu-ops about the factoid for screen.  The proposal was "Screen is a window manager for terminal sessions, also good for use over ssh.  See https://launchpad.net/screen-profiles for status bars, clocks, notifiers (reboot-required, updates-available), etc.".  Folks there suggested pointing to a wiki page for screen which could point to other related things, like the two links in the current screen factoid, and
<nealmcb> !screen
<ubottu> screen is a terminal multiplexer. See http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2004/3/9/16838/14935 and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Screen
<RainCT> nealmcb: your message was cut at "current screen factoid, and"
<nealmcb>  and ljl volunteered to set that up.  This url is available, not used now: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Screen    See also https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DinkelVersus/Screen
<seb128> hi
<mathiaz> seb128: hi - what's the state of evolution-exchange integration?
<seb128> mathiaz: evolution-mapi you mean?
<mathiaz> seb128: hm yes
<seb128> it's waiting in NEW now
<seb128> I will try to convince one of the other archive admin to review it
<nijaba> seb128: the openchange mapi integration!!!  great!
<mathiaz> seb128: great - once it's in the archive we need some testing done
<ivoks> nice
<seb128> thanks
<mathiaz> so we're looking for testers - having access to an exchange infrastructure is a prerequisite
<mathiaz> I don't have access to such a thing, neither seb128
<ivoks> how is that related to ubuntu-server?
<ivoks> i have access to some exchange setups :)
<mathiaz> ivoks: exchange is used in corporate environment
<mathiaz> ivoks: I thought it could be usefull to part of our users
<nealmcb> what part of the puzzle does evolution-mapi cover?
<ivoks> mathiaz: i know that, but exchange support in evolution doesn't quite sounds like ubuntu-server related; unless we provide exchange :)
<mathiaz> ivoks: seb128 was looking for testers and I offered to get a call for testing out as our users should have a higher probabilty to have access to such an infrastructure
<ivoks> oh, i see
<ivoks> i'll test it, i have one exchange environment :/
<mathiaz> ivoks: awesome - it's in the NEW queue for now
<nealmcb> I'd love to see someone offer a testing infrastructure by giving ubuntu testers access to an exchange/active-directory environment
<mathiaz> jdstrand: ^^ - there is some bits in the NEW queue waiting for you :)
<jdstrand> mathiaz: I'm on Friday-- kirkland is on tomorrow. I'll be sure to look at it if it is around on Friday :P
<ivoks> btw... i use evolution again, after years and years of claws... maybe i'm wrong, but it works muche better than before
<seb128> jdstrand: you can look at NEW out of your archive days ;-)
<jdstrand> mathiaz: seriously though. if you *must* have it today and the regular admin can't do it, I'll look at it
<mathiaz> jdstrand: it's not that urgent
<nealmcb> A first version is now up from ljl at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Screen
<mathiaz> jdstrand: friday will be fine
<ivoks> jdstrand: i'll be in exchange environment tomorrow, so if i could get that plugin today, that would be great :}
 * nijaba needs to run
<jdstrand> I'll give it a shot
<mathiaz> great - thanks
<mathiaz> let's move on
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time
<mathiaz> so north america will change hours this weekend
<mathiaz> IIRC europe doesn't - ttx?
 * ttx confesses ignorance and googles the question
<ttx> March 29 here
<ivoks> i guess we all change it
<ivoks> north america, europe and part of australia
<ttx> ivoks: you live in the world where we all use the same AC plugs ?
<ivoks> http://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datoteka:DaylightSaving-World-Subdivisions.png
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datoteka:DaylightSaving-World-Subdivisions.png
<ivoks> ttx: hehe
<mathiaz> so the question is whether we should move the meeting to 15:00 UTC or stay at 16:00 UTC
<ivoks> ttx: same voltage and SI system? :)
<ttx> mathiaz: either is fine by me
<mathiaz> AFAICT the tech board meeting has been moved back one hour
<mathiaz> so we could start the meeting at 15:00 UTC
<ttx> 1500 is even better
<ivoks> probably, yes
<mathiaz> ok - so we'll move the meeting to 15:00 UTC next week (and the week after)
<mathiaz> next week, same place at 15:00 UTC
<mathiaz> thanks all
<mathiaz> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:00.
<sommer> later all
<ivoks> MootBot needs ntpd :)
<sconklin> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:00. The chair is sconklin.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * pgraner waves
<sconklin> This is the weekly kernel team meeting
<sconklin> pgraner: I'll deal with you later :)
 * amitk waves
 * smb_tp here
 * manjo waves with a USB stick
 * apw arrives
 * cking here
<pgraner> sconklin: just sharing the love
<lieb> here
<sconklin> :)
<cooloney> Hello folks
 * ikepanhc1 here too
<cooloney> this is Bryan from Shanghai
<sconklin> hi cooloney
<sconklin> waiting for Bradf
<cooloney> so nice to be here
<ikepanhc1> Bryan, nice to see you
<apw> welcome cooloney
<sconklin> Alright, we'll go ahead
<cooloney> thanks man
<sconklin> First, welcome to the new kernel engineers
<pgraner> sconklin: Agenda is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<manjo> where is rtg ?
<sconklin> [TOPIC] Security and Bugfix kernels
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security and Bugfix kernels
<rtg> quit bugging me wghile I eat breakfast
<smb_tp> Ok
<sconklin> Intrepid?
<smb_tp> Hardy and Intrepid got new proposed kernels
<smb_tp> So the more testing we would get thee the better
<smb_tp> sconklin, Yes
<smb_tp> Why
<pgraner> smb_tp: how big are the changesets?
<pgraner> smb_tp: anything in particular we should be asking for testing on?
<smb_tp> Intrepid quite big since this is the one last sync with stable and it was 3 or 4 releases
<smb_tp> Generic daily usage
<smb_tp> Does every one get a X screen...
<smb_tp> Like there is one guy that claims he gets only a black screen
<apw> does the kernel boot on jaunty userspace for intrepid ones?
<sconklin> smb_tp: any webcam support changes that you noticed?
<pgraner> smb_tp: I've moved off Intrepid...
<smb_tp> Might be close enough to be running from Jaunty.
<pgraner> smb_tp: I've seen the regression list grow quite big, any idea why? http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/kernel-buglist.html
<manjo> sconklin, sony vaio webcam still not supported in intrepid
<apw> smb_tp, ok will give it a go
<smb_tp> But the problem is then, if there are user-space interactions this does not match
 * apw notes there are 5 new regressions on the lsit since we looked at it yesterday!
<smb_tp> sconklin, I have not all changes in my head. Thee were jsut too many
<sconklin> ok, I think we'll have to just try for everyone who can to look at the regressions
<apw> smb_tp, we should scheduler another sweep for the am
<sconklin> Any other security issues?
<pgraner> smb_tp: might be good if before the meeting we identify the big items and talk about them here?
<smb_tp> We should do. Seems some are already assign . Maybe some new includes
<pgraner> smb_tp: items being changes in -proposed
<apw> pgraner, yes that was silly, we didn't look at the list between yesterday and the meeting when it would have updated
<smb_tp> Yes, apwand I should schedule a run over the list for Tues
<apw> though ogasawara i don't think you should be holding any regressions back
<apw> if you find them add them asap
<ogasawara> apw: ack, will do
<smb_tp> [ACTION] smb and apw schdule regression list call for Tues
<pgraner> apw: I was talking about the growth of regressions. We should have NONE
<sconklin> [ACTION] smb and apw schdule regression list call for Tues
<MootBot> ACTION received:  smb and apw schdule regression list call for Tues
<pgraner> apw: not talking about the delta between yesterday and today
<apw> pgraner, well they wern't visible trivially before
<smb_tp> pgraner, There are a lot on that list that are regression from release to release
<pgraner> Ok now were getting somewhere....
<apw> so some are coming out of the wood-work as they are processed
<apw> ogasawara, some of these are old right?  time wise?
<pgraner> I was asking why do we have so many, are they real regressions or suspected regressions
<ogasawara> apw: yes
<manjo> there are some bugs opened against hardware that are more than 6yrs old ... and cant get hold of such hardware to look at bugs
<apw> i think we have always had them, a large number between releases which we didn't track well
<smb_tp> That is my feeling as well
<apw> though clearly we are not achieving 0 in each update either
<pgraner> apw: makes sense... the number has a lot of people asking
<sconklin> would it help to categorize why they happened?
<smb_tp> There are a few that come through proposed or updates but many throucgh release as well
<smb_tp> With the new list that happens
<pgraner> ogasawara: another column?
<apw> for example i am fixing a bug today which was a hardy->intrepid release regression
<smb_tp> There are regression-release and regression-update
<apw> triggered by a userspace interaction which was not tracked
<ogasawara> pgraner: I do have the tags in bold in the comments field
<smb_tp> ogasawara, Do we also have regression-proposed?
<ogasawara> smb_tp: no, but I can easily add it
<pgraner> ogasawara: they don't tell us why as described above
<sconklin> apw: so for example, was it a missed sauce patch, something in our patch directory, a missed commit upstream?
<sconklin> apw: nm, you answered
<apw> the specific one was a change to our udev, which was not tracked or informed to the kernel (to my knowledge)
<apw> and we didn't find out until well into intrepid's release
<apw> i don't think we are free of blame, just our bug load is mamoth
<sconklin> yeah, so if we find that we have a lot of those userspace interactions, it will help us focus calls for testing in the future
<pgraner> Lets take this offline. We can cover this at the sprint and report back to the list as to what came out of it
<apw> it does raise the question of whether we did our userspace sync checks right this cycle
<sconklin> [ACTION] discuss tracking and reduction of regressions at the sprint
<MootBot> ACTION received:  discuss tracking and reduction of regressions at the sprint
<apw> ack
<smb_tp> ack
<pgraner> apw: agreeed
<sconklin> any more security issues?
<smb_tp> no
<sconklin> I'm going to skip the archiving LPIA trees and cover it later during LPIA status
<sconklin> [TOPIC] Jaunty status
<MootBot> New Topic:  Jaunty status
<sconklin> How'd the alpha release go?
<apw> we upset the release team by needing to do a kernel upload
<apw> for an arm change, the request for which came from outside
<rtg> slangasek didn't hassle me too much, so I assume it went fine after that
<pgraner> apw: unfortunately this will happen until we the ARM arch established....
<sconklin> is there any benefit in adding an embargo to our process for a period preceding a release?
<manjo> can we patch drivers under staging ? in jaunty ?
<apw> i was going to suggest we perhaps set our own kernel-alpha-N dates in the
<apw> diary, to try and get earlier warning from our dependants
<apw> by making it clearer it takes 3 days to get our kernel out
<pgraner> apw: good point
<rtg> sconklin: I typically _don't_ upload the 3-4 days prior to an alpha release
 * amitk takes the blame
<sconklin> is that another sprint topic?
<apw> right and i think we are all aware, but if there was a marker on the calender 2-3 days before each marker
<pgraner> sconklin: make sure you add these to the wiki since you have the action list :-)
<pgraner> rtg: your favorite kdump and apport reporting... how's it going man?
<sconklin> [ACTION] add marker to calendar to show end of outside change acceptance
<MootBot> ACTION received:  add marker to calendar to show end of outside change acceptance
<rtg> its kind of in an intermediate state.
<rtg> we have an update to kexec 2.0.0, but without some of the upstream debian packaging fixes.
<rtg> I'll be working on that today
<pgraner> rtg: are the debian fixes important? what are we missing?
<rtg> then I'll finish my recipe for disaster on the wiki
<rtg> pgraner: unknown, other then some armel support
<pgraner> amitk: you want kdump?
<sconklin> any updates on Jaunty LPIA into the distro kernel? I skipped that agenda item
<amitk> pgraner: I don't. But kexec is something close to the hearts of the mobile team
<rtg> yeah, ogra and lool are hot for it
 * ogra looks up
<pgraner> rtg: you going to fold the debian changes in then?
<amitk> that might be the only way to get a uniform booting system for arm platforms
<rtg> that's my goal
<pgraner> rtg: ack
<amitk> if we can't get bootloader access
<lool> pgraner: At least armel should be listed in the control file, otherwise we can't use it on armel
<ogra> right
<rtg> amitk: you mean, use kexec for something other then crash analysis?
<amitk> rtg: correct. To jump into another kernel
<lool> Besides, there was a plethora of packaging issues, which I covered with lieb yesterday
<amitk> as a method for booting
<ogra> not merging the debian changes will require a massive amount of work in larmic
<rtg> amitk: huh, never thought of using it that way.
<ogra> *karmic
<ogra> better do it proper now than having to do twice the work next round
<pgraner> rtg: are you doing the pkging changes? lieb did you pass the notes on to rtg? I don't want this to drop
<sconklin> rtg: it allows booting from flash devices where you can't easily change the initial kernel
<rtg> pgraner: its not gonna drop.
<lieb> pgraner, yes I did wrt what I knew
<pgraner> lieb, rtg: great thx
<rtg> its been top of ny todo list for 2 weeks
<sconklin> anything else on kexec?
<sconklin> [TOPIC] call for testing - suspend/resume
<MootBot> New Topic:  call for testing - suspend/resume
<rtg> not that I know of, just figured out the debug images last night
<sconklin> are we seeing inbound bug reports for suspend/resume?
<apw> the call went out ...
<pgraner> apw: how have we made out with the ones that have been reported?
<apw> i think i have only seen one which was a stress test failure
<apw> i am still going trhough them and pointing them for first alalysis
<apw> not much progress.  workload has made me less responsive there than i would prefer
<pgraner> Is nvidia still the pain point?
<apw> we have been concentratingin on the regressions and HIGH bugs recently
<sconklin> as far as we know the testing scripts are pretty stable and mature now, right?
<apw> there are some nvidia reports but not the majority by any means
<apw> the testing scripts are pretty solid yes
<apw> expecting a public call in a couple of weeks i guess
<pgraner> apw: brace for impact
<IntuitiveNipple> I've got three active and several yet to examine in detail. One (nvidia MCP78S) looks to be a simple omission of quirk code during resume according to mainline, which is fixable easily.
<apw> IntuitiveNipple, thanks for looking at those.  you noted the tag combinations there?
<IntuitiveNipple> I've just about finished creating a (sqlite) database for all firmware usage/load instances to check for request_formware() resume delays.
<IntuitiveNipple> apw: not that I recall... still getting to grips with them :)
<sconklin> ok, anything to report for bugs and bug tracking? We already agreed to have a regression review before this meeting
<sconklin> next week
<apw> as for incoming volumes generally for suspend/resume i am seeing about 5 a day down from 7
<apw> no idea if its a trend yet
<pgraner> apw: I suspect it will increase as more and more people start moving to Jaunty
<apw> we may sink without a trace
<sconklin> at least we have some tools in place
<pgraner> according to manjo Jaunty is still eating bunnies
<manjo> I am having issues with 64bit
<rtg> I thought we agreed it was python that was eating bunnies?
<pgraner> rtg: yea pythons like bunnies
<manjo> I updated python form the ppa but still have issues
<sconklin> manjo: what sort of issues? Is it something that you need help with?
 * pgraner wonders if its manjo issues?
<manjo> sconklin, yeah we can talk offline
<sconklin> manjo: ok
<manjo> well apport dies, network manager dies, browser dies,
<amitk> PBKAC
<sconklin> any more bug issues? ogasawara, anything to add?
<manjo> system-preferennces- windows diesw
<ogasawara> sconklin: just a few to point out (but seems the majority already have a dev assigned)
<manjo> create usb stick dies
<ogasawara> bug 336055
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 336055 in linux "Wifi driver fixes for age scan" [Unknown,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/336055
<ogasawara> seems patches will go upstream for this ^^
<apw> that says its fixed?
<ogasawara> bug 334994
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 334994 in linux "kobject_add_internal failed for dev-sda1 with -EEXIST, don't try to register things with the same name in the same directory" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/334994
<sconklin> that issue has gotten a huge amount of coverage, we need to get it in quickly
<sconklin> 336055 that is
<ogasawara> apw: the bot's on crack
<apw> :)
<ogasawara> then three regressions, bug 331092, bug 255651, bug 258985
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 331092 in linux "iwlagn driver fails to find 5GHz draft-N access point with CONFIG_WIRELESS_OLD_REGULATORY=n for all intel wireless cards" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/331092
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 255651 in linux "floppy disk drive not detected (module not loaded) in Intrepid and Jaunty" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/255651
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 258985 in linux-backports-modules-2.6.24 "Ralink rt73 hangs and requires reboot" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/258985
<ogasawara> two are in progress already so that looks good
<apw> ogasawara, if those non-regression bugs are _bad_ could you add the watch tag to them
<ogasawara> apw: yes
<sbeattie> I need to update the description to make it SRU ready, but I'd like to get bug 329489 in this round of SRUs (needs to go into jaunty as well)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 329489 in apparmor "locks on unlinked files leak memory in apparmor" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/329489
<apw> the floppy one should have a 90% fix from keybuk by tommorrow
<ogasawara> sbeattie: I'll get it on the list
<sbeattie> ogasawara: thanks.
<ogasawara> sconklin: that's it for now
<sconklin> anything else bug related?
<sconklin> haha ok
<sconklin> [TOPIC] vanilla kernel builds
<MootBot> New Topic:  vanilla kernel builds
<Keybuk> (I'm just checking that the kernel is really ok with a module having an unused device table)
<apw> the announcement went out, and even made lwn
<sconklin> Looks like we're getting some discussion of this as relates to the triage process
<sconklin> exactly
<apw> in the last week the automation has been upgraded to build them against their base releases
<apw> so .24 on hardy etc, and allowing us to turn on things turned off and replaced in lum
<sconklin> lwn aside, there seem to be a lot of people happy with having the resource available
<rtg> apw: I tried 2.6.15 for dapper, but ran into gcc issues.
<cooloney> right, lwn announced it.
<apw> other than that, mostly positive except for the "an excuse to Incomplete our bugs" comments
<sconklin> ok, nice job apw, we'll just continue to watch this
<sconklin> [TOPIC] ARM Tree status
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Tree status
<apw> rtg ahh that makes sense.  we would probabally need dapper chroots for that
<cooloney> does that vanilla kernel builds including armel?
<rtg> cooloney: x86/x86_64 only
<amitk> cooloney: not currently
<cooloney> ok, thanks
<sconklin> amitk: anything to add?
<amitk> not really, we got ixp4xx working last week
<amitk> I am working on adding another board support to the tree
<sconklin> ok, moving on . . .
<sconklin> [TOPIC] LPIA tree status
<MootBot> New Topic:  LPIA tree status
<sconklin> Here's what I know:
<sconklin> Most lpia projects are still working out of the old netbook trees, because of release cycles that made is risky to change over. We will change over to the new trees during the sprint
<apw> has there been any touch testing of our tree?
<pgraner> sconklin: I know you asked for testing from the OEM team and feedback on the kernels?
<sconklin> I missed some patches in the debian patch directories when I brought them over to the new trees. lieb was looking at that
<lieb> true
<cking> what's the status of the lrm?
<sconklin> the OEM team has said a couple of times that they would test, but afaik they have not
<apw> we need to try and get them to do at least a touch before we get there
<sconklin> apw: agreed.
<pgraner> awe: any input?
<rtg> sconklin: you could annoy awe about it right now.
<cking> sconklin: whats the low down on lpia lrm?
<sconklin> lrm still resides in a repo that the OEM group has - we need to figure out at the sprint how to keep it synced with the new kernel trees
<awe> pgraner: nope, sconklin let's talk this afternoon.
<amitk> sconklin: what do they need from lrm? madwifi?
<sconklin> [ACTION] pgraner, sconklin, awe to discuss OEM testing of lpia trees
<MootBot> ACTION received:  pgraner, sconklin, awe to discuss OEM testing of lpia trees
<cking> amitk: broadcom amongst others
<sconklin> amitk: I believe that's correct
<amitk> and they have patches to lrm that hardy lrm doesn't?
<rtg> amitk: since Leffler published the HAL, we should move madwifi to the kernel package.
<sconklin> amitk: I don't know
<amitk> rtg: yes
<awe> amitk: yes
<sconklin> we need to discuss this with the OEM folks participating
<awe> rtg: is the *free* version of madwifi stable now?
<amitk> rtg: but would you do that move on a LTS?
<rtg> awe: danged if I know
<rtg> amitk: I think just Jaunty initially
<cking> sconklin: perhaps we need to get an idea of what's different in the lrm variants before the sprint
<amitk> that makes sense
<sconklin> cking: agreed, and I'll put a wiki page up that defines the different strategies we're taking for hardy and post-hardy
<cking> cool
<sconklin> [ACTION] sconklin to create wiki page showing lpia source structure and repos for various releases
<MootBot> ACTION received:  sconklin to create wiki page showing lpia source structure and repos for various releases
<sconklin> And I think I just found my sprint presentation topic as well :)
<apw> sconklin, be good to make that page generic so we can add ports and the like to it
<sconklin> apw: more meta ? OK
<sconklin> anything else on lpia?
<sconklin> [TOPIC] incoming bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  incoming bugs
<sconklin> I think we already covered this
<apw> yeah
<sconklin> nothing more that's bug related?
<sconklin> [TOPIC] open discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  open discussion
<sconklin> anything?
<amitk> yes
<apw> be nice to see the actions from the meeting mailed out
<apw> so we don't lose them
<sconklin> will do
<apw> as a general request for each meeting
<amitk> elmo mentioned this morning that 64-bit downloads are a single digit percentage of ubuntu downloads
<sconklin> would you like some selected content included or are the actions enough?
<apw> for me actions is what i am after
<amitk> which was somewhat a surprise
 * apw concurs with amitk 
<maco> there's still the perception that 64bit means everything breaks
<cking> I'm gobsmacked
<amitk> perhaps our download pages need rearranging?
<pgraner> all I use is 64bit
<apw> same here
<rtg> perhaps we need to stop build 32 bit?
<cooloney> right, i use 64bit on macbook pro
<cooloney> jaunty
 * pgraner listens to the crickets chirping
<apw> sadly there were some compelling reasons to stay 32 bit
<maco> i think if the release notes simply said that 64bit flash and java plugins now exist, more people would download 64bit
<amitk> rtg: there are still several apps (closed ones mostly) that don't treat 64-bit as first class citizen
<manjo> quick question... are we patching drivers under staging for jaunty?
<rtg> I know
<amitk> flash, skype and google gears are my usecases
<amitk> manjo: why can't the patch go directly upstream?
<apw> though i use 32 bit skype i think on my 64 bit laptop
<manjo> amitk, that is another possiblity
<pgraner> apw: I do the same
<pgraner> We r about out of time....
<amitk> rtg: I guess I am building up a case for restoring the PAE kernels for 32-bit since more people with lots of memory are hanging onto 32-bit
<apw> though i believe my experience was that 64 bit is only just hitting ok status
<sconklin> any suggested actions for encouraging 64 bit use?
<cking> don't call it amd64
<rtg> amitk: I've about decided that myself
<pgraner> sconklin: I'll blog about it
<apw> at least for Jaunty
<manjo> sconklin, I dont feel encouraged
<maco> cking: good point. intel core 2 users might think it doesn't apply
<amitk> sconklin: rearrange the download page :)
<cooloney> flash and skype for 64
<sconklin> ok then, we need to wrap this up
<rtg> amitk:  I _did_ talk to the server team about dropping the 32 bit server flavour.
<sconklin> same time and place next week.
<apw> ack
<amitk> bye all
<pgraner> out
<apw> we can contnnue on #u-kernel
<manjo> out
<sconklin> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:59.
 * rtg beams down to the planet
<lieb> bye
<cooloney> see you
<cooloney> bye
<smb_tp> bye
<dholbach> hello
<dholbach> hi elmo
<dholbach> hey Technoviking
<dholbach> sabdfl just passed on he won't make it today
<mako> greetings
<dholbach> hey mako
<dholbach> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 15:02. The chair is dholbach.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<dholbach> we don't have much on the agenda today: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<dholbach> [TOPIC] people.ubuntu.com
<MootBot> New Topic:  people.ubuntu.com
<dholbach> nhandler is not here today
<dholbach> elmo: do you know anything about the status there? was it specified closer what needs doing there?
<elmo> yeah, I know what needs doing; the only hairy part is transitioning the existing contents (obviously, don't want to break URLs)
<elmo> oh, and quotas, but we don't need those first thing I guess
<dholbach> elmo: should we ask people to prepare a list of stuff that needs moving (and also list what can just go away?)
<elmo> beyond that, it's just finding resource/time to write the code, implement it.  I'll try and push that forward as soon as i can
<elmo> dholbach: I think we have to keep existing links working, so people.ubuntu.com/~james will 302 to people.canonical.com/~james
<elmo> that's only scary in terms of a) the mapping, and b) apt not following redirects
<elmo> so, the latter is possibly something I should warn folks about
<dholbach> so nothing that people can actually help out with?
<elmo> not at this stage, I don't think.  if I find anything that can be done by others, I'll be sure to yell
<dholbach> great, thanks a bunch James
<dholbach> alright
<dholbach> [TOPIC] AOB? :)
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB? :)
<mako> hi Burgundavia
<Burgundavia> hey mako
<dholbach> hi Burgundavia
<dholbach> Burgundavia: we're in the "any other business" part of the meeting already :)
<Burgundavia> oh
<Burgundavia> 9 minutes in and we are already there?
<dholbach> I'm all set - what about you guys?
<mako> Burgundavia: short meeting, apparently :)
<mako> which is fine by me :)
<mako> nothing on my end
<Burgundavia> I am done
<dholbach> perfect.... I'll update the team report then :)
<dholbach> thanks a bunch everybody
<dholbach> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 15:11.
<mako> thanks everyone :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-03-04
<robbiew> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:58. The chair is robbiew.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<robbiew> hi liw
<robbiew> hi TheMuso
<TheMuso> Hey folks.
<cjwatson> afternoon
 * mvo waves
<liw> yo
<evand> hi-ya
<slangasek> hello
<robbiew> Keybuk: are you here?
<Keybuk> I'm always here
<robbiew> hhe
<robbiew> cool
<Keybuk> I have always been here
<robbiew> not much as a formal agenda goes
<slangasek> <warble>
<robbiew> http://launchpad.net/bugs/290400
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://launchpad.net/bugs/290400
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 290400 in ubuntu-meta "DVD livefs always removes java packages" [High,Triaged]
<robbiew> this is currently unassigned...and an apparent bother for Dell :)
<robbiew> any takers?
<doko> is this jaunty?
<cjwatson> so the assignment to ubuntu-meta is a bit ... confused
<robbiew> heh
<cjwatson> the problem is not really that metapackages are inadequate, although I suppose that would be one possible way to fix it
<cjwatson> Java is pulled in because of (indirect) dependencies from language-support-*
<cjwatson> one thing we could do would be a hack in ubiquity to say "if Java's on the livefs, we might as well keep it"
<cjwatson> although Mario's proposal would perhaps be a more elegant way to do that
<cjwatson> oh, well, I said that the ubuntu-meta bit was confused and now notice that I put it there myself ;-)
 * cjwatson blushes
<robbiew> heh
<doko> java is overrated anyway
<robbiew> completely :P
<cjwatson> why don't I take it; I already gave Evan one of the other OEM priority bugs today
<robbiew> cjwatson: thanks
<evand> oh?
<robbiew> heh
<evand> I missed this assignment entirely
<cjwatson> bug 335557
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 335557 in oem-config "new TZ map needs to be ported to oem-config" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/335557
 * evand curses gmail for not having anything approaching decent mail filtering
<evand> thanks
<evand> noted; will do
 * liw says inboxzero.com and hides
<cjwatson> figured it was probably more sensible for you to do that than for me to try to guess
<evand> sure thing
<robbiew> I've been told by QA that I should review this list:
<robbiew> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/ubuntu-foundations-assigned-bug-tasks.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/ubuntu-foundations-assigned-bug-tasks.html
<robbiew> and mark bugs that we should *not* have
<evand> If I did inbox zero on the ubiquity bug mail I'd surely go mad and start drawing on the walls and storing bottles of urine.
<cjwatson> so there are some things on there, at least for me, that are there due to personal interest and that basically have little to do with my paid work
<robbiew> "If the team decides that it cannot realistically take  responsibility for a given bug it should be assigned to Nobody (or a  suitable community team) and the 'ct-rev' tag should be added "
<cjwatson> how do you want those annotated?
<cjwatson> for example, bug 329375
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 329375 in groff "groff version is too old" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/329375
<robbiew> cjwatson: hmm...good question
<robbiew> I think they can stay
<doko> muah ... bittorrent still in main?
<robbiew> it's marked Wishlist..so I won't really pay much attention to it, to be brutally honest
<james_w> ct-rev?
<cjwatson> robbiew: right, just an example
<cjwatson> robbiew: let's say bug 161047 then
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 161047 in openssh "ssh server forces a command when it should not" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/161047
<robbiew> cjwatson: ah
<Keybuk> robbiew: I haven't even seen half of these bugs that are apparently assigned to me
<cjwatson> TBH, I think most things that are assigned to me personally are there because I set them that way
<cjwatson> i.e. don't want to forget about them, and intend to do something about them eventually, but that doesn't necessarily indicate anything about their urgency
<robbiew> cjwatson: I'm still okay with it
<robbiew> I use this to see approximate bug workload...nothing else
<ScottK> I'd like to jump in and suggest that "assignment" to a community team is not generally appropriate.
<cjwatson> people do occasionally randomly assign bugs to developers who look plausible
<cjwatson> I usually tell them off and unassign when they do it to me :-)
<robbiew> ScottK: it's a way to let our QA team notify me of a bug for the team...when they aren't sure who on it should get it
<robbiew> only rarely done...at least for our team :)
<ScottK> robbiew: I was referring to the "or reassign it to a community team" bit.
<cjwatson> I am happy to say that all of the bugs on there are basically appropriate for me, even though they are not necessarily either urgent or a general team responsibility
<cjwatson> (er, the ones assigned to me that is)
<robbiew> ScottK: oh
<robbiew> cjwatson: right...I suspected that most are "appropriate"...and btw, we KILL the other teams in bug assignment
<robbiew> heh
<mvo> that is going to take some time to go through the complete list
<robbiew> not sure if that's good or bad
<robbiew> mvo: right, and I think update-manager is unfairly "blamed" for bugs in other applications
<doko> mvo: did you see any new python related upgrade errors this week? If not, I'd like to announce that we finish the upgrade, and that it should be safe to upgrade again
<cjwatson> we've only started using the ubuntu-foundations team as a temporary holding area for bugs very recently
<robbiew> mvo: so you may have some work to do :)
<mvo> robbiew: indeed
<cjwatson> in contrast to e.g. ubuntu-desktop and ubuntu-kernel-team who've been doing so for a long time
<ScottK> doko: There's still lots of Universe/Multiverse to do.
<doko> ScottK: yes, I know
<mvo> doko: I have not done a lot of triage this week, sorry
<robbiew> cjwatson: true
 * liw rejoices in the fact that update-manager will now be blamed for computer-janitor's problems :)
<cjwatson> liw: ... but you need to subscribe to update-manager's bugs ;-)
<robbiew> ok, so that's all I have besides the usual SPONSOR, SPONSOR, SPONSER push
<mvo> liw: right, you are now *maintainer* of it too :P
<robbiew> liw: +1 to cjwatson
<liw> mvo, oops :)
<robbiew> liw: congratulations! heh
<robbiew> james_w: ready?
<james_w> yeah
 * robbiew yields the floor :)
<james_w> I've got a question related to the Launchpad API, but I think it's something that someone might have come across elsewhere
<robbiew> oh wait...one more reminder: All hands proposals in by this Friday!
<robbiew> ok...sorry james_w
<james_w> np
<james_w> I want to know which packages have been published since the last time I checked
<james_w> launchpad allows you to specify a date in the query which to show since
<james_w> but I don't think there's a way to get its idea of the time
<cjwatson> oh, you mean to make sure your time is synced with LP's?
<james_w> so how should I design this such that things aren't missed due to clock skew or changing clocks?
<james_w> yeah
<cjwatson> here's a stupid workaround
<cjwatson> assume that your local clock is accurate to within a day
<cjwatson> ask for all packages since (last time you checked - one day)
<cjwatson> keep a record of the answers so that you can eliminate duplicates
<cjwatson> for some value of "a day"
<james_w> if you are doing HTTP then the server tells you the time, which you store and then send back in the "If-modified-since" header. This is based on http, but I don't think it's exposed/usable
<james_w> yeah that's what I was thinking
<cjwatson> what's the API call in question here?
<james_w> I don't even need to remove duplicates, as there is no harm in doing extra work
<james_w> just trying to balance efficiency with safety
<james_w> I could do a full re-scan once a day or so to ensure nothing is missed as well
<james_w> just looking...
<cjwatson> the problem about relying on the server's time is that presumably in theory LP's different appservers might be skewed
<cjwatson> in practice I imagine they're NTPed
<james_w> getPublishedSources I think
<cjwatson> so for correctness you probably have to build in a margin anyway
<cjwatson> I looked at getPublishedSources but don't see a "date since" field
<james_w> then there are a bunch of date fields on the result
<cjwatson> oh, right, you just have to ask for them all then filter?
<james_w> it looks like it
<cjwatson> well, in *that* case I think you can safely assume that time on the production database is monotonically increasing
<james_w> I want to avoid the expensive calls to find all publications in all series for that package
<cjwatson> so just remember the latest time it gave you last time, and then look for the next one after that?
<james_w> that seems to be sensible
<james_w> thanks, I'll give it a go
<cjwatson> I'm hoping that the production database keeps its times in UTC
<james_w> me too :-)
<cjwatson> if not I think we would probably notice problems ;-)
<robbiew> james_w: cool...is that all?
<james_w> that's all I had, thanks robbiew
<james_w> and thanks cjwatson
<robbiew> ok...remembered one more item. We're starting 9.10 requirements meetings this week and next...so you may get pinged for some info...just FYI
<robbiew> AOB?...Good News??
<robbiew> going once...
<mvo> we should get some compiz speedups
<robbiew> :D
<robbiew> Keybuk: have you had a chance to test the changes on the mini9?
<Keybuk> robbiew: no, because of other breakages
<cjwatson> I think the race condition nightmares that bit us from alpha 5 should be basically dead now
<robbiew> cjwatson: that's REALLY nice to hear :)
<robbiew> Keybuk: grrreat :(
<mvo> I asked asac to test the change, but his mini9 is running jaunty for other reasons, so I could only test it on my system
<cjwatson> mostly due to Keybuk, but I added a few bits of synchronisation to partman-lvm too
<mvo> where it brings down stattup from 3s to 2s
<mvo> (on the second run that is)
<asac> mvo: s/jaunty/hardy/
<asac> mvo: let me check for a jaunty image now
<robbiew> ok...looks like this meeting is running out of steam :P
<robbiew> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:33.
<cjwatson> UI freeze is tomorrow, right?
<cjwatson> land your UI changes now :-)
<robbiew> TheMuso: fyi, got your proposal and am digesting it now
<robbiew> cjwatson: ah, yes
<liw> cjwatson, what, tomorrow?
<evand> gah
<TheMuso> robbiew: ok
<liw> why isn't it in my calendar
 * mvo wonders why http://launchpad.net/bugs/291262 is assigned to him
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 291262 in python-central "MASTER - package failed to install/upgrade: pycentral pkginstall: not overwriting local files" [High,Triaged]
<asac> mvo: you are the python upgrade master ;)
 * mvo unassigns himself
<robbiew> thanks all!
<mvo> thanks
<doko> mvo: we could set overwrite-local to default, now that we know that newly local installs go into /usr/local for 2.6
<mvo> doko: I would welcome that change
<mvo> doko: should I assign to you?
<evand> thanks!
<mvo> doko: having the environment (as in my patch) would be nice as well, then update-manager cna force it for upgrades, but its not essential
<doko> mvo: you *can* welcome it. it's there. or do you mean the change of the property? do you want a environment var for u-m?
<mvo> doko: what I wanted to say was that I would welcome making force-override default or to have a way for update-manager to make it default (that is simpler than editing a conffile)
<doko> mvo: ahh, ok
<mvo> but with the new layout it should be much less of a issue anyway
<ara> heno: I won't be able to attend the community meeting, sorry. Please check my email with my updates. can you say udt point on my behalf, please? (email has the details)
<ara> thanks
<heno> ara: got it thanks
<heno> no worries
<davmor2> hello
 * heno waves
 * bdmurray waves
 * cgregan waves
<pedro_> hello everybody
<sbeattie> hey
 * charlie-tca waves
<heno> bdmurray, ogasawara, cr3: ping
 * ogasawara waves
 * bdmurray waves again
<heno> ah, sorry bdmurray :)
<heno> ok, we can start!
<heno> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:02. The chair is heno.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<heno> lots of good topics again today: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
<heno> [TOPIC] UbuntuBugDay highlights.
<MootBot> New Topic:  UbuntuBugDay highlights.
<eeejay> howdy
<heno> welcome eeejay
<pedro_> I wasn't around last hug day but it seems that a good progress was mode https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20090226
<heno> everyone: eejay is working on desktop test automation, specifically the dx stuff
<heno> currently the notifications
<pedro_> hey eeejay :-)
<davmor2> hello
 * fader waves.
<eeejay> hi folks :)
<heno> He's also the upstream maintainer of Accerciser :)
<heno> do we have a summary of last weeks bug day? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20090226
<cgregan> eeejay, heno: I have a new hire jcollado who is doing some automation work as well.....we should maybe get the entire group in a call next week
<heno> or should we just introduce tomorrow's https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20090305 ?
<pedro_> I was expecting to Mrkanister to give us some stats about the past one but he is not online atm
<pedro_> yeah, tomorrow hug day is based on flashplugin-nonfree
<heno> cgregan: or we can just speak face to face at the sprint :) eeejay will be there as well
<pedro_> people already started to do some work on it, so feel free to start grabbing and squashing bugs before is too late
<cgregan> heno: sounds good
<eeejay> yup, /me will be there
<heno> for those who don't know - we have a desktop automation sprint here in Oxford next week
<heno> mostly Canonical folks, but a few external invites
<heno> we'll follow up with sessions at UDS and Guadec/Akademy as well
<heno> thanks pedro
<heno> that brings us to:
<heno> [TOPIC] April Ubuntu Bug Days, it was proposed to freeze them since the release is coming out that month
<MootBot> New Topic:  April Ubuntu Bug Days, it was proposed to freeze them since the release is coming out that month
<heno> pedro: ^?
<davmor2> heno: might it not be better to take the time to work on hardy bugs ready for hardy.3
<pedro_> Right, I've been talking with Mrkanister about that, and we think that i'd be good idea to put the hug days on hold for that month
<pedro_> and concentrate our efforts on the release rather, doing testing, trying to discover new critical bugs, etc
<bdmurray> Why's that?
<heno> (btw, let's start adding names to agenda items so we know easily who posted them)
<sbeattie> would we convert the hug days to testing days?
<pedro_> we could do that, yes
<bdmurray> Maybe if we changed the focus of bug days from less per package but rather to no package or new w/in the past week or bugs with patches?
<pedro_> bdmurray: right, we want to schedule a bugs with patches hug day just after the release to grab the attention of the developers to them and hopefully include those patches to next release
<pedro_> if they apply to that of course
<heno> davmor2: yes we should come up with a few tasks like that to recommend instead but people should work on those independently so we don't take up too much of people's bandwidth around release
<bdmurray> couldn't we try and get some of them in for Jaunty?
<heno> before RC at least that could work
<heno> if we run a bug day the Thursday before RC
<heno> I don't think we should have one the week of RC or Final
<pedro_> that'd be Thursday 09 April
<bdmurray> heno: that makes sense to me
<heno> The week after we could have a 'catch new bugs for SRUs and Karmic' day
<heno> April 30th
<pedro_> sounds fine to me
<pedro_> I'll add those to the Planning page then
<bdmurray> so skipping a couple sounds good but not the whole month?
<pedro_> bdmurray: yup
<heno> We'll have several smoke testing days on Mondays anyway
<heno> (with the first one next Monday)
<heno> seems like we have consensus there!
<pedro_> yup thanks ;-)
<heno> [TOPIC] Next Testing day topic & highlights from last UTD
<MootBot> New Topic:  Next Testing day topic & highlights from last UTD
<heno> Here we are referring to the one week after next
<heno> next week is a smoke day :)
<davmor2> Yay
<heno> A notifications testing day has been suggested, but you are travelling then eeejay?
<davmor2> http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Plans/SmokeTesting plan is here if anyone wants to add any thing
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Plans/SmokeTesting plan is here if anyone wants to add any thing
<heno> schwuk: let's pass around some CDs at the sprint on Monday too :)
<eeejay> heno, on th 16th?
<heno> right, thought you had mentioned that
<eeejay> heno, i had, but I will be here for most daytime European hours
<eeejay> I should be able to be online through 1700 UTC
<heno> ok great, let's pencil that in then
<heno> ara had to step out but send me an update from the last testing day:
<heno> * totem & rhythmbox
<heno> - A couple of bugs were found for totem & two more in rhythmbox.
<heno> - I proposed a fix for the totem one, waiting in the sponsorship queue.
<heno> - davmor2 was again very responsive
<heno> - Less new people than the previous one. jcastro: how do you think we should encourage more people to participate?
<heno> - A calendar for the next UTD is now at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/UbuntuTestingDay/Calendar
<eeejay> i hope ara (or somebody else) could help me prep for the next bug day, not sure how good the cases we have are so far
<eeejay> expecting to do that at the sprint
<heno> eeejay: we should make good progress at the sprint, yes
<heno> [TOPIC] lp-upstreaming tool - Jorge Castro sent an email asking for testing.
<MootBot> New Topic:  lp-upstreaming tool - Jorge Castro sent an email asking for testing.
<davmor2> eeejay: I think there are some for notifications but are out of date I can update that though and you can complete it
<eeejay> davmor2: I started work on them here: http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Applications/Notification
<heno> jcastro: here?
<heno> So I've tested it a bit ...
<pedro_> heno: he is sprinting atm IIRC
<heno> ok
<heno> * Bug 18505 has an upstream task and link already
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 18505 in gimp "Can cause corruption if cancel while a save is in progress" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/18505
<heno> so that seems to be a false positive
<heno> * I'd like to be able to see the whole bug - perphas an 'Open in FF' option?
<heno> (in addition to y/n/q)
<heno> I'll file bugs about these
<pedro_> that makes the workflow a bit slow for me, i don't really like to be asked each time, instead i'd like to give to the tool a set of bugs from the command line
<pedro_> but it seem jcastro was faster than me on that and he filled bug 329119
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 329119 in lp-upstream-tools "Should support arbritary bugs on the command line" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/329119
<pedro_> which is exactly what'd like to have
<ScottK> eeejay: kwin is not a targetted environment for notify-osd.
<heno> pedro_: how do you know they should be upstreamed, had you already looked at the bug (in your workflow)?
<pedro_> so please if you find that the tool isn't doing what's expecting to do or you want to request a feature, please fill a bug under the lp-upstream-tools product -> https://bugs.launchpad.net/lp-upstream-tools/
<pedro_> heno: exactly, for bugs I've already looked during the day
<eeejay> ScottK, not for this cycle. right
<ScottK> eeejay: There is no agreement about it ever being a target.
<ScottK> I'd suggest remove it and leave that to the next UDS to figure out.
<heno> Most fundamentally for me though: We don't currently track which bugs are not actually candidates for upstreaming. So when I looked at the gimp bugs today the ones that did not have a task were not really suitable for that. The next person who runs the script will have an even worse hit rate
<heno> we need a flag for this-is-likely-not-an-upstream-issue and filter on that
<bdmurray> maybe opening an upstream task and marking it invalid?
<heno> We've spoken about using a tag while waiting for an LP flag
<heno> bdmurray: that's an option
<heno> jcastro, pedro_: can you look at the possibilities for this with gmb?
<heno> ok, next:
<pedro_> heno: yeap, I'll raise it with them
<heno> [TOPIC] debconf questions that use a check box?
<MootBot> New Topic:  debconf questions that use a check box?
<heno> pedro_: the upstream report should reflect that state too
<pedro_> heno: indeed
<bdmurray> I was doing an upgrade this morning and noticed that some debconf prompts are phrased as questions but have a checkbox which seems odd to me.  Has anyone else noticed this?
<fader> bdmurray: Not consciously but now that you mention it, yes
<heno> bdmurray: does this require further discussion? seems like a bug should be filed against the offending packages
<bdmurray> I was curious if other people thought it was a bug too.  Also how can we find these without doing tons of upgrade tests.
<davmor2> bdmurray: I don't do that much in the way of updating I normally install fresh so may be missing them due to that
<heno> ideally we should minimise prompts at all
<sbeattie> bdmurray: is there a way to query for packages that have debconf questions?
<bdmurray> sbeattie: That's what I'd like to know! ;-)
<davmor2> bdmurray: don't you tend to get these on system wide changes to things like mysql and things like that?
<bdmurray> Okay, I'll do more research into it I guess.
<heno> ok, thanks
<heno> [TOPIC] Improving the information flow between bugsquad and developers
<MootBot> New Topic:  Improving the information flow between bugsquad and developers
<heno> has everyone read http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/ucgi/~cjwatson/blosxom/2009/03/02#2009-02-27-bug-triage-rants ?
<bdmurray> aye
<heno> not much of a rant, cjwatson Too balanced ;)
<heno> So, stepping back good bug triage can actually be hard, esp of certain packages like the installer and kernel
<heno> we shouldn't fault people too much for making some mistakes but we should look at better procedure for catching and correcting earlier
<davmor2> I think one think here that might help is if an explanation of different modes is added to the talks for GBJ there were a lot of new triagers there who were just told to not touch a bug if it is assigned to someone but not much else
<heno> Having developers participate in bug jams and bug days helps
<heno> because they can provide feedback real time
<heno> I would also suggest that people contact the devs of teams related to a package they intend to triage a large number of bugs for, with a heads-up
<bdmurray> To what end?
<cjwatson> bdmurray: debconf> sounds like standard debconf behaviour on booleans
<cjwatson> might be a wording problem in the questions involved of course
<heno> bdmurray: I'd send Colin a message saying I'm planning a run though the Ubiquity bugs next week - please have a look as the first hit your inbox on Monday and let me know if I'm on track
<bdmurray> cjwatson: wording problem is a good way to describe what I'd seen.  How could we go about finding those?
<cjwatson> bug triage> the biggest problems I have had are when people suddenly triage a couple of hundred of my bugs without talking to me first
<bdmurray> cjwatson: what would you tell them?
<cjwatson> bdmurray: look at /var/lib/dpkg/info/*.templates, looking for Type: boolean
<cjwatson> bdmurray: the worst problems are when somebody decides that all of my bugs are too old and therefore must be stale
<cjwatson> it generally wastes a vast amount of my time to disentangle everything and pacify bug submitters who are fed up of being asked to confirm the continued existence of their bug for the nth time
<cjwatson> but I would guide them to the areas that I think actually need work
<cjwatson> and generally attempt to establish a relationship with them where they could quickly fire me questions on IRC or whatever
<bdmurray> I see your point and agree that's problematic it just seems that there should be a better way to document what you'd like to see rather than having a conversation every time someone wants to look at bugs in package X.
<cjwatson> well, the comments I made are things that I think should be general practice
<cjwatson> I am generally concerned that there is a mistaken belief that bugs go off with age
<charlie-tca> also, those who are triaging confirmed bugs, just because they are more than a few months old
<cjwatson> I am generally concerned that people think that wishlist bugs are bad
<sbeattie> cjwatson: "my bugs" == bugs assigned to you, bugs in packages you subscribe to, and/or some other way of identifying those?
<bdmurray> I agree with your blog post, I was more concerned with e-mail developer before triaging bugs bit.
<cjwatson> I am generally concerned that people think it's OK to close bugs that aren't actually gratuitously incomplete without checking with the appropriate developer
<cjwatson> etc.
<cjwatson> bdmurray: I think that's a good way to avoid problems, but not necessarily the only way
<davmor2> is there a link that is a devel directory?  That could be a good thing to add to bug days etc.  Then if a devels name appears anywhere in the bug leave it.
<heno> bdmurray: not for a single bug but before doing a large sweep of hundreds of bugs
<cjwatson> sbeattie: one might spend some time reading about the package one's working on and trying to figure out the history
<cjwatson> sbeattie: that would be a useful thing for triagers to know how to do anyway
<cjwatson> sbeattie: since the history is usually very important information
<cjwatson> davmor2: I suggested the lp_karma_suffix greasemonkey script
<heno> Should we add a section about communication to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToTriage/ ?
<bdmurray> There's also DeveloperResponsibilites
<cjwatson> I didn't want to give the impression of "get off my lawn", BTW
<cjwatson> but I do think that sometimes people forget that the point of bug triage is to help developers work more efficiently, so that's actually an important thing to check up on every now and then :)
<cjwatson> I do have a major concern that people are acting on well-written bugs that they just don't understand
<cjwatson> I'm not faulting them for not understanding everything, obviously!
<cjwatson> but if something shows up that I don't understand, my instinct personally would be to stay clear rather than to give a stock request for more information or to close it pointing to brainstorm
<cjwatson> I have encountered quite a number of people who've said that they don't bother reporting bugs to Ubuntu because they would rather talk to somebody knowledgeable - and I think that's a really bad thing
<cjwatson> so I'd like to try to figure out how to correct that
<heno> IMO we should encourage people to specialise more in triage - that would help people build up their expertise faster and build working relationships with developers
<heno> IOW specialise in a subset of packages
<davmor2> I think it could be a good thing to get people in bug-control who specialise in areas to become heads of bug sections who can act as general go betweens for bug-squad and devs.
<cjwatson> bug reporters generally like to know that they have somebody knowledgeable on the other end of the line - nobody likes to feel as if they're being dealt with by a support firewall
<cjwatson> specialisation is likely to improve that
<heno> davmor2: right we should start with bug-control and ask people to adopt certain packages
<cjwatson> does marking bugs invalid require bugcontrol?
<heno> hence my proposal for a separate meeting about that topic
<bdmurray> cjwatson: no it doesn't
<cjwatson> hmm, shame
<bdmurray> There are a lot of bug reports that are unworkable
<davmor2> cjwatson: no but having someone you can quickly check with that it is the right thing to do wouldn't harm
<cjwatson> bdmurray: agreed, and I have no objection to triaging those fairly aggressively
<cjwatson> bdmurray: my concern is more about the ones that are just fine, but somebody comes along who doesn't understand that they're just fine
<bdmurray> Maybe adding something to the description would help?
<cjwatson> um
<cjwatson> in most of these cases, the description is a perfectly adequate description of the problem
<cjwatson> I don't want to have to go editing lots of bugs to say "please don't close this bug" in them. (actually sometimes if you do that people close it anyway.) I want people not to close bugs that they don't understand.,
 * ScottK agrees understanding should preceed action.
<cjwatson> it's just fine for bugs to be closed when there's just not enough in them to proceed, but at present, bug triagers are closing much more than that
<cjwatson> and I honestly think that this is a flaw in triage, not a flaw in the bugs
<cjwatson> to extend the triage metaphor, it's a bit like nurses telling everyone to go home and take an aspirin :-)
<cjwatson> rather than understanding which ones need to be seen by doctors
<cjwatson> BTW I'm not saying that anyone here is doing this! but it is happening
<heno> If only there were enough well qualified nurses ;)
<cjwatson> and of course if only there were enough doctors, then we'd have less of a backlog of patients
<heno> OK, let's start by encouraging more specialisation and see where that takes us
<heno> indeed!
<cjwatson> I sometimes feel as if the penalty for not fixing all your bugs quickly enough is that you have to spend all your time making sure they stay open
<cjwatson> which is an interesting approach to incentivisation, but seems in the end to be counterproductive :)
<heno> I propose a bug-control meeting on April 16th at 18.00UTC
<bdmurray> April?
<heno> heh, March :)
<davmor2> maybe we could add a this app belongs to this irc channel and just ask people to not close bugs until they check on irc until they become more knowledgeable
<heno> we can discuss this and other topics for bug-control specifically
<heno> davmor2: that should help too
<cjwatson> davmor2: there's a middle ground between "don't close any bugs unless you're the maintainer" (which Debian recommends) and what we're doing at the moment, I think
<heno> any objections to that meeting time? (or the meeting itsef?)
<bdmurray> I think we should post the time to the mailing list
<bdmurray> and solicit feedback there
<heno> agreed. I can do that
<GrueMaster> which mailing list?  I need to make sure I'm on it.
<heno> I'll use both bugsquad and ubuntu-qa in this case
<heno> ok, let's wrap up _this_ meeting
<heno> any other business?
<heno> (again, briefly)
<bdmurray> I looked at http://people.ubuntu.com/~brian/testing_graphs/nopackage.html this morning and it brought a tear to my eye.  Thanks everyone!
<bdmurray> See the 365 day specifically
<heno> wow!
<pedro_> fantastic
<cr3> bdmurray: that's just the number of bugs open, right? how about the number of bugs created?
<heno> cr3: it's open bugs without a package
<GrueMaster> I'm not sure that is fully realistic.  It could be that people are just getting better educated at where to file bugs (i.e. alsa-project.org, kernel.org, kde.org, etc).
<bdmurray> cr3: Are you looking for the number of bugs created without a package?
<heno> good note to close on!
<GrueMaster> But it is good to see decreasing numbers.
<heno> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:22.
<cr3> bdmurray: I'll follow up outside the channel
<heno> GrueMaster: bug days, apport, Brian's searches are all factors that have helped I think
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-03-05
 * ogra moos
 * lool waes
<lool> *waves
 * StevenK beaches
<ogra> haha
 * NCommander gurgles
<persia> OK.  Let's get started then.
<persia> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 05:59. The chair is persia.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090305
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090305
<persia> [TOPIC] persia's action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  persia's action items
<persia> Actually running an OEM install without hand-editing the command line is currently blocked by bug #309396
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 309396 in syslinux "Ubuntu UMPC boot menu is truncated" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/309396
<persia> Other than that, it seems most of the right bits are in place.
<persia> I've added the arm-library-optimisation and pouslbo packaging to the roadmap, as well as that bug.
<persia> I haven't looked at the test cases at all, and will be carrying over that action item.
<persia> [topic] NCommander's action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander's action items
<NCommander> jax10 installer works
<NCommander> Most of my other items are carry over however, due to work on the Babbage board.
<persia> [topic] StevenK's action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  StevenK's action items
<StevenK> Bug 335276 filed.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 335276 in xserver-xorg-video-psb "[Intrepid] SRU for 2D Poulsbo" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/335276
<persia> [topic] ogra's action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  ogra's action items
<ogra> bug forwarded on request of the desktop team (seb128)
<ogra> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=574152
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=574152
<ubottu> Gnome bug 574152 in general "Hangs with 100% CPU usage on ARM hardware" [Critical,Unconfirmed]
<ogra> attached a stack trace but upstream doesnt seem happy yet
<ogra> (oh, and i can finally reproduce it)
<persia> [topic] lool's action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  lool's action items
<davidm> ogra, is it only ARM or does it happen on other arches?
<lool> So I gave thoughts to the EC2 architecture I'd use; I looked into the AutoInstall testing in update-manager and it teached me a lot about EC2 and Python bindings, but I didn't spec anything yet
<ogra> currently its only arm afaik, the other comments there look rather like red herrings
<ogra> davidm, ^^
<persia> davidm, That bug is in the roadmap: let's hit details when we get there
<lool> I'm busy with other stuff, so I intend to continue research around the next week
<davidm> thanks ogra
<lool> (done)
<persia> lool, Do you need the action item carried, or does it belong somewhere else?
<ogra> davidm, it might be though that its caused by a) the FSL kernel we use missing something or b) by the way we set up the rootfs, i wil find out both soon :)
<lool> persia: Let's keep it in the specs list, without any pointer?
<lool> I should open a dummy blueprint for it
<NCommander> ogra, try grepping the source for ppoll/pselect
<persia> Opening the dummy blueprint was the action item.  I'll carry it over.
<persia> OK.  Moving on
<persia> [topic] Roadmap review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Roadmap review
<lool> Well what I said last week is that I would *spec* it  :-)
<persia> [topic] offline-installer
<MootBot> New Topic:  offline-installer
<lool> But it was before the OMG lot's of stuff to do
<ogra> yeah, last week somewhat changed all our schedules
<ogra> err, no changes
<persia> [topic] unr-handling-jaunty
<MootBot> New Topic:  unr-handling-jaunty
<ogra> like for all my roadmap items
<StevenK> Hm.
<StevenK> I'd like to move unr-handling-jaunty to Implemented
<StevenK> It's firmly in bug fixing mode
<ogra> \o/
<StevenK> What does everyone else think?
<ogra> ++
<persia> Do it then, and drop it from the roadmap.  Congratulations!
<StevenK> :-D
<NCommander> yay
<StevenK> That leaves me with no specs in the roadmap ...
<StevenK> Perhaps I shouldn't have announced that.
<persia> You can surely find some bugs :)
<persia> [topic] arm-library-optimisation
<MootBot> New Topic:  arm-library-optimisation
<persia> lool?
<lool> So some progress here; I'm working on pango1.0 and gtk+2.0 patches which should be done today
<lool> Glibc's situation looks better now: the kernel issue is sorted out and it's IS to fix the kernels
<lool> I am late in providing a final list of libs we will VFP
<lool> ffmpeg-debian will be handled specially
<lool> It was intended to be pure VFP build, but instead because the NEON opts are too hard to enable at runtime says ARM I'll look into doing a VFP + NEON build
<lool> And not using the vfp trick
<lool> It will require rebuilds of rdeps
<lool> (done)
<persia> [topic] poulsbo-packaging
<MootBot> New Topic:  poulsbo-packaging
<persia> I've not written this up: I need to catch up with StevenK's bug, but I'm expecting to be in shape for next week, and I understand it ought be implemented in a couple more.
<persia> [topic] general-resolution-for-touchscreen-handling
<MootBot> New Topic:  general-resolution-for-touchscreen-handling
<persia> no change as above
<persia> [topic] arm-softboot-loader
<MootBot> New Topic:  arm-softboot-loader
<NCommander> No change, carry over please.
<persia> [topic] selection-of-arm-images
<MootBot> New Topic:  selection-of-arm-images
<persia> no change as above
<persia> [topic] lpia-versus-i386
<MootBot> New Topic:  lpia-versus-i386
<lool> Nothing new to report
<davidm> Should we defer this to 9.10?
<persia> [topic] mobile-spec-cleanup
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-spec-cleanup
<persia> [topic] lpia-versus-i386
<MootBot> New Topic:  lpia-versus-i386
<lool> moo?
<lool> davidm: lpia-versus-i386?
<lool> davidm: It's already deffered to that; it needs to be done in the infrastructure before we build 9.10
<davidm> Yes, I was wondering if we should defer the questions
<persia> I think we need to have some idea prior to archive-open, so we can influence the toolchain, although I don't think it's essential until next month.
<lool> The goal is to change the opt flags just before the archive opens
<davidm> Ah sorry
<davidm> ignore me please sorry
<persia> [topic] mobile-spec-cleanup
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-spec-cleanup
<persia> I've not taken any progress here.  I'm expecting to have some time to look at it again next month.
<persia> [topic] bug#299847
<MootBot> New Topic:  bug#299847
<NCommander> Made a little more progress
<lool> C test case?
<NCommander> Its an absolutely bazaar case because I can't reproduce where the race condition occurs, and if I change the perl code to remove all tests except for the one that fails, it doesn't.
<lool> Well it might be that the previous tests break the kernel or something
<lool> That's what was happening to some extent in some vfp tests in glibc
<StevenK> NCommander: "bizarre", bazaar is the DVCS
<lool> NCommander: Start with all tests, remove half, remove the next half etc.
<NCommander> Shoo, my coffee is low
<lool> StevenK: Oh you're not using bizr?
<NCommander> lool, which causes the nature of the failures to change and disappear :-/
<GrueMaster> I've also had tests that cause future tests to fail in processor validation.  Could be cache related.
<lool> NCommander: Stop removing tests when the failure disappear?
<NCommander> Well, the test suite is a framework of intermixed code
<NCommander> So to remove a test, you have to change the other tests to update at least for a new reference count
<lool> NCommander: In the end it's a bunch of syscalls
<NCommander> Yes, well, thats what I'm going to end up reimplementing. A C list of syscalls from top to bottom because I think thats the only way we're getting a C based test case
<NCommander> Anyway, I don't except much progress on this until after A6 freeze kicks in next week.
<persia> [topic] bug #331510
<MootBot> New Topic:  bug #331510
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 331510 in linux "ixp4xx kernel too big to use with debian-installer on NSLU2" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/331510
<persia> Right.  Seems fix released.  Removing bugs from the roadmap when fixing them is nice, unless you have something to say about them.
<persia> [topic] bug #322217
<MootBot> New Topic:  bug #322217
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 322217 in linux "ixp4xx image does not boot" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/322217
<ogra> persia, eh, please reload :)
<persia> Excellent!
<persia> [topic] bug #328167
<MootBot> New Topic:  bug #328167
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 328167 in gnome-keyring "gnome-keyring-daemon eating 100% CPU at login in Jaunty" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/328167
<persia> There was interspersed discussion above.  Anyone have anything to add, or shall we move to the next?
<ogra> well, nothig to add to this one
<lool> "Being debugged"
<ogra> upstream has it, i offered more logs on request
<persia> [topic] bug #309396
<MootBot> New Topic:  bug #309396
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 309396 in syslinux "Ubuntu UMPC boot menu is truncated" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/309396
<persia> Essentially, this is an infrastructure issue only.  We need to use jaunty syslinux, but have to run it under intrepid.
<persia> I've started work on a tool in perl that will do precisely that, but it will need significant testing, etc.
<lool> LOVELY: the new edit description of launchpad bugs (AJAX-ish one) is really cool
<persia> With luck, I'll have something almost-but-not-quite working by Friday.
<lool> (sorry)
<persia> [topic] bug #280669
<MootBot> New Topic:  bug #280669
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 280669 in linux "DMA mode and driver jax10" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/280669
<lool> persia: I find it's a bit of a waste of effort if you need to reimplement stuff because of IS constraitns   :-/
<lool> NCommander: ^ that's yours
<StevenK> persia: s/intrepid/hardy/
<NCommander> Tested with both mainline lpia/i386 kernels, and apw's PPA kernel
<StevenK> lool: I don't think it's an IS constraint at all
<NCommander> All three can see both SSD devices
<StevenK> Anyway, I don't want to have this argument here
<lool> StevenK: So why can't we use the jaunty version?
<NCommander> With the i386 kernel, it comes up in UDMA/66 mode (no ability to change in hdparam)
<NCommander> apw's kernel causes it to come u pin UDMA/100 mode
<StevenK> lool: Because the image is constructed on a hardy machine that would be very hard to run a jaunty binary on?
<lool> NCommander: and with lpia?
<lool> StevenK: So why don't we get a jaunty chroot?
<NCommander> lpia was UDMA/66 (same as i386). I forgot to post the dmesg for it however, I'll do that when I get back home.
<lool> StevenK: Even if it's just for running syslinux
<lool> That seems like a machine effort rather than a human effort
<persia> [action] NCommander to post dmesg for jacx10 to 280669
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to post dmesg for jacx10 to 280669
<lool> NCommander: excellent, so apw's kernel improves the DMA mode
<lool> NCommander: So we can report back that we want this patch?
<lool> NCommander: I think you want to hdparm -tT it though to confirm there's really a change and it work
<lool> ss
<ogra> ++
<NCommander> lool, well, the dmesg comes up differently but I can test that
<NCommander> (on apw's kernel vs. i386/lpia stock)
<lool> NCommander: Well if it breaks the device under high IO for instance it might be wrong to merge the patch
<NCommander> One would hope the hardware would prevent the IO mode from being switched to prevent breakage ...
<persia> Hardware doesn't tend to be sufficiently self-aware to have a sense of self-protection
<lool> NCommander: I just want to make sure the patch wont break anything
<lool> NCommander: Consider that we will use this info to eventually upstream it
<lool> NCommander: also, if it makes no speed difference then it might be worthless and erroneous
<NCommander> I can run a HDD stress test with say dd and /dev/random to see if there is an actual change.
<lool> NCommander: Yes, and I'm interested in hdparm -tT output
<GrueMaster> Actually, use bonnie++.  It works great as an io stress test.
<lool> Good idea
 * NCommander dislikes the notion of extreme HDD tests on an SSD
<persia> Well, it's better to burn one SSD getting it right than release something that burns thousands of them.
<lool> NCommander: We're only speaking of 5 minutes of stress
<GrueMaster> Actually, it is what I used to use to test the drivers when I was at Intel.
<lool> It's at the logic level, not at the hardware wear out level
<NCommander> RIght, point taken. I'll put it on my TODO, but I don't except to get it until late into next week
<persia> OK.  Anything else for 280669?
<persia> NCommander, Do you need more actions?  I didn't see more commitments.
<NCommander> Put down that I will confirm the change in performance with apw's kernel vs. stock kernels.
<persia> [action] NCommander to confirm changes in performance between apw's kernel and stock kernel
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to confirm changes in performance between apw's kernel and stock kernel
<lool> NCommander: (it's tracked via the bug though)
<persia> [topic] bug #336770
<MootBot> New Topic:  bug #336770
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 336770 in debian-installer "Problems Installing Jaunty On NSLU2" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/336770
<ogra> well, somewhat not my highest prio item atm, but i plan to look into it next week
<ogra> babbage is more important to get going now
<persia> ogra, Do you need an action, or is roadmap sufficient?
<ogra> roadmap is enough
<ogra> well, doesnt matter really, we wont meet before A6
<NCommander> ogra, it might be just that flash-kernel is in universe vs. main (I dunno if d-i calls it)
<ogra> i would like to fix it for A6 but its a matter of time i can put in, the slug install simply are massively time consuming
<ogra> and the error only shows up at the very end
<persia> Well, that naturally segues into
<persia> [topic] NSLU2 enablement
<MootBot> New Topic:  NSLU2 enablement
<ogra> NCommander, yes, thats what i suspect, but i havent confirmed yet
<ogra> persia, right
<persia> Is this accurately covered by bugs at this point, or does it still need a special item?
<ogra> but since two days babbage enablement is higher prio on my list
<ogra> which includes the keyring daemon hang and images
<persia> Maybe you want to add Babbage enablement to the roadmap?
<lool> Makes sense
 * ogra adds
<persia> [topic] ARM Benchmarking
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Benchmarking
<ogra> bah, lool owns it
<lool> done
<lool> " OliverGrawert, LoicMinier, Michael Casadevall " on it
<ogra> yep
<ogra> saw that
<persia> I'd rather just have one person who is responsible for commenting in the meeting, but that's just because it makes running the meeting easier :)
<ogra> well, we share the load on different levels
<NCommander> ALl ARM bencharmsk for ARMv5, and ARMv6 done except two graphical ones on ARMv6 (due to monitor issues back home)
<ogra> and share the work, each of us works on different parts
<NCommander> I'll see if I can get that done sometime soon since the benchmarks left to run take a few minutes, but I need a working console.
<persia> NCommander, So results are expected next week or so?
<NCommander> persia, results have been up for ages.
<persia> Well, except for the two graphical ARMv6 ones :)
<persia> Anyway...
<NCommander> the ARMv7 benchmarks is depwait on loic's ec2 spec, unless someone else has an idea how to do an archive rebuild.
<persia> [topic] Babbage enablement
<MootBot> New Topic:  Babbage enablement
<ogra> slow progess ...
<lool> good progress here :-)
<NCommander> painful progress ...
<ogra> waiting on the kernel package
<lool> I managed to create SD card images which work on any size of cards which the ROM will take
<ogra> will work on getting a casper initramfs going today
<NCommander> ogra, that won't fly without a merged kernel
<ogra> and with luck even boot the suashfs
<NCommander> Baseline doesn't have AuFS
<ogra> *squash
<lool> With a partition protecting the redboot + fis with kernel and initramfs and config
<lool> I'm working on removing the need to run redboot to achieve that
<ogra> NCommander, getting into an initramfs prompt is my first target atm
<ogra> in a casper initramfs
<NCommander> ogra, I sent you what I know about running an initramfs
<ogra> that wont need aufs
<NCommander> lool, if I known you had that progress, I would have made sure FSL had known
<ogra> NCommander, right
<lool> I found a fconfig utility and a fis utility and am trying them out; the goal is to generate the image with the fis and update the config with fconfig
 * NCommander is not doing well with get genernal configuration blackout
<NCommander> s/configuration/communication/g
<NCommander> I think we need to break it down on where each component stands w.r.t. to enablement (all of us typing at once made that very confusing)
<persia> Indeed.
<NCommander> Lets go from the top down
<NCommander> RedBoot
<NCommander> lool, care to fill us in what you managed to do specifically and what's left to do?
<persia> We're tight on time.
<persia> Rather, could one of you take charge, and put together a wiki page with all the bits, and link to it?
<lool> NCommander: Not really, I prefer moving forward and doing the doc pass in the end
<persia> That makes it easy for us to go through status quickly next week.
<lool> I'm taking notes, but I don't want to document perfectly the intermediate attempts
<NCommander> lool, I understand that, but I need to take that to FSL, and say what we've done; we have duplication of effort ATM.
<lool> What I had to say as an updated I said already: I can now create a SD image with just RedBoot and a kernel as input, but I still need to run RedBoot on the babbage
<lool> I'm working on removing that requirement
<lool> I managed to build the target layout which we will use in the released image
<lool> Now I need to make that fully automated without the need of a babbage board
<lool> What's missing is a redboot binary built by ourselves from source
<lool> preferably packaged
<lool> That's on NCommander's plate
<ogra> but worst case we could go with a binary blob from restricted, no ?
<lool> And work on the contents of the rootfs; currently I'm running a plain Ubuntu install on it and it works fine
<ogra> if everything fails
<lool> (manual debootstrap)
<NCommander> ogra, no, GPL problem.
<ogra> NCommander, we can provide the source on request
<lool> ogra: If we confirm we can really build it
<lool> ogra: How can you tell your sources are the sources?
<NCommander> That last bit probably won't happen for A6, but I think I can build the binaries before then, then focus on getting everything packaged and promoted.
<ogra> lool, yeah, indeed
<ogra> lool, but as a last resort a package with binary blob and the sources separately can do
<ogra> indeed we need to build it once
<ogra> i'm counting on NCommander here :)
<NCommander> I've managed to build it once, in a dream :-/
<davidm> 8 minutes
<persia> So again, could one of you volunteer to drive the coordination, and report on it in the meeting?
<lool> Oh you mean single reporter?
<lool> I'm happy to report to someone so that he can report here
<persia> That ought make the meeting go more smoothly.
 * ogra takes that 
<persia> [action] ogra to take charge of Babbage enablement
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra to take charge of Babbage enablement
<persia> So, that concludes the roadmap.
<persia> [topic] Discuss moving meeting time to be more convenient for those in UTC-5 through UTC-8
<MootBot> New Topic:  Discuss moving meeting time to be more convenient for those in UTC-5 through UTC-8
<ogra> for the IRC meeting ?
<persia> So, there's been some requests from people in UTC-6 and UTC-8 that this meeting is far too early in the morning.
<NCommander> (and UTC-5 :-P)
<persia> Nobody in UTC-5 complained to me :p
 * ogra wasnt aware we wanted to shuffle that as well
<davidm>  We have daylight savings changes happening world wide over the next weeks
 * GrueMaster doesn't recall complaining.
<davidm> US is this weekend
 * ogra didnt complain 
<persia> So, when do we want it?
<davidm> Does anyone know when all of the changes are complete?
<lool> I don't care much if it stays one hour long and close to this time
<lool> It's lunch time no matter what, but that's ok
<ogra> ++
<persia> Personally, I see most activity from Australia, the Americas, and Europe, so I'd suggest something like 20:00 UTC or 21:00 UTC.
<StevenK> Australia doesn't switch until April
<StevenK> Except for Western Australia, but they don't count
<davidm> Wow it's an entire month this year to convert over
<lool> Australia is in Summer and they walk on their hands, I don't see how we can do anything for these people
<StevenK> lool: Remind me to punch you in the kneecaps when I see you
<lool> davidm: What happens if we keep the current UTC time?
<lool> StevenK: To force me to walk on the hands?
<persia> Actually, not converting at the same time is a good thing.  I remember a meeting moving by two hours Australian time once because the people in the US didn't want to change.
<StevenK> lool: No, because I can't reach your shoulder
<lool> It's fortunate I'm not smaller, or you would have hit higher than the kneecaps
<davidm> In the US it's an hour "nicer" to waking up
<persia> So, we're *really* tight on time.  Anyone opposed to 20:00 or 21:00 UTC?
<ogra> StevenK, his kneecaps might not agree with his heads opinion ... be careful :)
<NCommander> No objection, that would be an improvement for us US folks.
<StevenK> 20UTC is a little early for me
<lool> persia: that's far from now
<davidm> lool, meeting would move to 07:00 central time but that is still 05:00 for -8
<GrueMaster> StevenK needs his beauty sleep.
<persia> lool, 21:00 is nine hours.
<davidm> StevenK, what time is 20 UTC local for you?
<lool> What about two hours later, 2pm UTC
<StevenK> davidm: 7 am
<persia> 6am come April
<davidm> StevenK, that beats waking folks at 05:00
<davidm> Is 21:00 better?
 * persia fails to do the math for UTC+9
<StevenK> Hah
<StevenK> davidm: 8am and then 7. Still makes me say ick :-)
<NCommander> StevenK, you should try being in central time
<lool> Hey why don't you folks move to France?
<GrueMaster> Or PST
<davidm> Yea, but it's quite a lot better then 05:00 or earlier
<StevenK> NCommander: I like living in tomorrow, you're living in the past.
<ogra> or germany
<NCommander> StevenK, I don't have 24 hour+ flight times to go anywhere :-)
<StevenK> NCommander: Yes, you do. Try flying to Auckland or Sydney
<NCommander> lool, personally, I want to move to Alaska .... but that won't do anything good for our call time.
<StevenK> Alaska is still -8 or is it -9?
<NCommander> -9
<persia> -10/-11 in some areas.
<NCommander> and Hawaii is -10
<GrueMaster> Personally, I vote for monthly face to face meetings in Australia.  Hawaii would work too.
<lool> So late UTC is probably the best choice
<lool> Which is middle of the night for asia where we have nobody, as persia pointed out recently
<NCommander> lool, nobody yet.
<persia> Right.  So it's really between 20:00 UTC which can be 6:00 in Australia or 21:00 UTC which can be 23:00 in Europe.
<StevenK> And it's the middle of the day in the US?
<persia> Yes.
<GrueMaster> ~lunch time here.
<persia> GrueMaster, You get no sympathy for that.
<GrueMaster> none needed.
<GrueMaster> My office is 5 feet from food.
<davidm> StevenK, what time will 21:UTC be in a month local?
<ogra> you work in your kichen ?
<StevenK> Your office is in the kitchen?
 * StevenK glares at ogra 
<ogra> snap :)
<persia> I'm not hearing consensus, and we're overtime.
<GrueMaster> next too  the kitchen.
<StevenK> davidm: 6am
<persia> [action] meeting time discussion to be deferred to next week
<MootBot> ACTION received:  meeting time discussion to be deferred to next week
<persia> Please consider it, and let's review again then.
<davidm> Good enough
<persia> [topic] Any other business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any other business
<davidm> persia, thanks for running meeting
<lool> persia: thanks for chairing
<persia> I'm not hearing anything.  If you have anything, please add it to the agenda for next time.
<persia> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 07:09.
<ogra> thanks
 * GrueMaster drags his carcass back to the cave.
<persia> Who's here for the Java Meeting?
<ttx> o/
 * sommer is loitering out of curiosity
<persia> OK.  Meeting agenda is (as always) at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Meeting
<persia> Nobody raised any special items.
<persia> robilad doesn't appear to be present.
<persia> slytherin doesn't appear to be present.
<persia> ttx, Any updates for maven?
<ttx> persia: no. I intended to have a look at the current state in Debian but haven't had time to
<ttx> as a reminder, we decided to follow Debian work on this, and contribute missing libraries where appropriate
<persia> Right.  Do we still need it as a Roadmap item if we're not actively chasing it?
<ttx> persia: I would say no.
<persia> Then let's drop it.
<ttx> I'll remove it.
 * persia frantically tries to finish the task for the next time
<persia> Right.
<persia> So, the only package remaining in the archive that build-depends on sun-java5-jdk is pj
<persia> And the only package that binary-depends exclusively on sun-java5-jre is sunwderby.
<persia> Since sunwderby has no rdepends, I'd like to remove it from the archive.
<persia> I'm less sure what do do about pj, and need to investigate some more to see if it can be ported to openjdk.
<persia> Once those are resolved, we ought to be able to drop sun-java5 entirely.
<persia> I seem to remember derby being of especial concern for glassfish.  Does anyone know if there's some reason we need so many derby implementations in Ubuntu?
<persia> (we currently have sun-java6-javadb, sunwderby, and sun-javadb-*
<persia> I guess not.
<persia> Anyway, I'll see what I can do with pj, and file the removal for sunwderby, expecting users to be able to select one of the other two packages of the code if they need it.
<persia> OK.  Anyone have anything off the roadmap to raise?
<ttx> yep
<ttx> I've been working on documentation
<ttx> I've written a Java library packaging guide...
<ttx> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/LibraryPackaging
<ttx> this can probably also be useful to non-libraryt Java packagers
<ttx> I intend to work on a few other useful resources
<ttx> one is a complete list of classes / jars / Java packages in Ubuntu
<ttx> it's a little difficult today to find where a given class might be provided
<ttx> or find collision in the Java namespace
<persia> That latter would be incredibly useful: I've spent quite a bit of time over the past week hunting down to see how many of the jars in an upstream source we already have.
<ttx> I'll write a script that takes all packages containing jars, read the contents of each jarfile in there
<ttx> and make a big file (one class per line) with class - jar - package info
<ttx> so that a quick grep should yield useful info
<persia> I've also been reading the javahelper documentation, with it's hints about setting the right classpath and manifest inside each .jar.  Would it be worth it for that script to also check to see which packages would benefit from adding this?
<ttx> (ok, maybe some awk/uniq might come handy)
<ttx> persia: once ready I'll push the script in LP somewhere so that it can be used/extended/fixed for other purposes
<persia> That's enough for me :)
<ttx> I also want to create a list of "libraries wanted" in Ubuntu
<ttx> then we can complete it if an ITP is in progress in Debian, etc
<ttx> but at least list what is clearly missing
<ttx> then some devweek exercises could be plugged in
<persia> It's probably worth filing those as RFPs, and tracking it that way.  Except for rare cases, I think we'd generally want to add the libraries to Debian.
<persia> We could use a usertag in the BTS to be able to collect a simple report of the outstanding ones of specific Ubuntu interest.
<ttx> persia: yes. First step is still to make the list :)
<persia> Sure.  I'll try to document the relevant BTS wrangling for the next meeting then.
<ttx> I'll add related items to the roadmap
<ttx> that's all for me.
<persia> Individually, or shall we just have one item to add more libraries?
<persia> (and a tracking page, etc.)
<ttx> one item for the magic script, one item for "libraries wanted"
<persia> Right.
<persia> I don't have anything further.
<ttx> me neither
<persia> sommer, You mentioned you were just loitering, but do you want to add anything?
<sommer> persia: don't have anything specific... like I mentioned the other day I was thinking about packaging ejbca for karmic, or helping to
<sommer> I think it's doable, but I was also wondering if there are other J2EE apps already packaged
<sommer> I might have the wrong terminology, but glassfish creates a default domain1, and other packages add themselves to it or do they need to create their own domain?
<persia> You might look at libaopalliance-java
<sommer> cool will do
<sommer> that's all I had
<persia> Alright then.  Meeting adjourned.
<sommer> thanks persia
<st33med> I almost thought the meeting was tomorrow :|
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-03-06
<lajjr> today 9:00 EST.
<lajjr> st33med...it is today.
<st33med> Yeah, I know
<st33med> I almost though
<st33med> *thought
<st33med> :)
<lajjr> all good.
<lajjr> welcome to early show lol
<st33med> lawl
<JanC> Ubuntu US Teams meeting, right?
<st33med> yes
<st33med> for Ubuntu Members
<st33med> recruits that is
<lajjr> st33med: can I down load your bot's source code?
<st33med> lajjr, it's old, one sec
<lajjr> oh ok..
 * nhandler looks forward to finally seeing st33mbot
<lajjr> oh you have st33mbot's source code??
<st33med> I do
<st33med> Just compressing it so it is one file on media fire
<st33med> give me a few minutes
<charlie-tca> JanC: yes, should be at 1:00am utc
<charlie-tca> americas board meeting is at 2:00am UTC
<st33med> http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=eb7399d27c814729d2db6fb9a8902bda lajjr
<st33med> Oh, you want to see steambot?
 * st33med dusts of robot
<st33med> *off
<nhandler> Just don't bring him in here ;)
<st33med> aww
<st33med> He does no harm
<lajjr> st33med is that the code to it??
<st33med> lajjr, yes
<st33med> >.>
<st33med> &leave
<lajjr> very cool thank you. st33med
<st33med> Your welcome
<lajjr> just want to check it out code wise.
<st33med> he is in ##beginners-help if you wish to toy with him
<lajjr> nice..
<lajjr> is the bot on all the time??
<st33med> not always, it has been awhile since I have launched him
<lajjr> very cool congratz on the bot..
<st33med> thanks
<Hobbsee> is there actually a meeting going on here?
<st33med> Not yet
<Hobbsee> oh, 4 mins?
<st33med> an hour
<lajjr> your are very welcome i had a few programmers that code bots just want to see new style of coding and code.
<st33med> I threaded it :)
<lajjr> from your own code right?
<st33med> yes
<lajjr> then all good python rocks.
<st33med> I borrowed the basic code from an online forum somewhere as a starting position
<st33med> It has dramatically changed
<Hobbsee> If the meeting starts in an hour, it would be lovely if you could go find another channel until then - many people log this one, so trying to keep it on topic is a good idea
<lajjr> ok.
 * vantrax waves to bodhi_zazen 
<st33med> vantrax, no talking, people log this channel, talk elsewhere
<valles_> hello
<pleia2> hi all
<foxbuntu> Hello
<nhandler> Hi valles_ and pleia2
<MTecknology>  o/
 * st33med bows
 * charlie-tca waves
<pedro_> hello
<johnc4510> evening all
 * lajjr waves
 * dantalizing coughs
<MTecknology> nope
<pleia2> just waiting on another council member or two, and then we'll get rolling:)
<MTecknology> pleia2: waiting on atoponce?
<pleia2> MTecknology: we need to have quorum, we don't yet
<nhandler> I pinged nixternal and vorian
<pleia2> yeah, vorian was just around a half hour ago
<nixternal> hola
<johnc4510> nixternal: hey
<nhandler> :)
<pleia2> nixternal: dude, you missed your mentorship approval!
<nixternal> heh, I was watching hulu :)
<nixternal> groovy
<pleia2> except you didnt get approved :)
<pleia2> because you werent there
<nhandler> Mentorship?
<pleia2> nhandler: USTeams
<nhandler> Ok
<pleia2> alright, that's 4 of us, we can get things going :)
<MTecknology> i've been doing that ;)
<effie_jayx> pleia2,  yep
 * st33med twitches with stress
 * bodhi_zazen slaps st33med 
<pleia2> ok, no hikaricore again, I think I'll drop them an email
<pleia2> charlie-tca: you're up!
<charlie-tca> I am Charlie Kravetz, from the state of Idaho in the United States. I have been using Ubuntu and Xubuntu since 5.04 came out.
<charlie-tca> I am known as charlie-tca on the mailing lists and IRC.
<charlie-tca> I am Quality Assurance lead for Xubuntu, which also involves bug triage and testing.
<MTecknology> johnc4510: I like working with other loco's :P - even more than my own since I tend to work with established yet unapproved locos
<charlie-tca> I test both Ubuntu and Xubuntu on a daily basis, on both hardware and software.
<MTecknology> ok - I'll try to get the channels strait - sorry
<charlie-tca> I am an active member of ubuntu-bugsquad and bug-control. I think the work I have done in testing and bug triage has helped insure Ubuntu is a quality distribution for the end users.
<charlie-tca> I have been mainly involved in Xubuntu for the last year. I will continue working in bug triage, testing, and generally helping out where I am able to.
<charlie-tca> I prefer to pass the credit for accomplishments to those I feel better deserve it. It is very difficult to accomplish anything trying to do it alone, so the credit should go to the entire team involved.
<charlie-tca> enough?
<pleia2> yep
<pleia2> looking at your pages now :)
<pleia2> great xubuntu work
<charlie-tca> thanks
<pleia2> charlie-tca: much of your future thoughts had to do with continuing on the same stuff as you're working on now, is there other stuff you'd like to get into?
<charlie-tca> I can't do development anymore. I am getting to forgetful, so I think I have to continue with bugs and testign
<charlie-tca> I would like to be able to learn more of the triage work, network manager and firefox, in particular
<pleia2> impressive amount of karma, well done
<effie_jayx> pleia2, votes?
<pleia2> sure, I think charlie-tca has done really solid work over the years, it speaks for itself :)
<pleia2> +1
<effie_jayx> +1 from me too
<pedro_> totally +1, keep up the good work charlie-tca
<nixternal> +1
<MTecknology> charlie-tca: congrats
<pleia2> congrats, welcome charlie-tca! :)
<nhandler> Congrats charlie-tca !
<vantrax> grats charlie-tca
<charlie-tca> Thanks. It means an awful lot to me.
<pedro_> charlie-tca: welcome aboard  :-)
<johnc4510> congrats charlie-tca
<lajjr> congratz charlie-tca
<nixternal> congrats charlie-tca and welcome!
<effie_jayx> charlie-tca, keep up the great work and makle XUBUNTU ROCK harder man
<bodhi_zazen> congrates charlie-tca :)
<pleia2> now before moving on to the next applicant, Daviey wanted to say a few things before he falls asleep :)
<charlie-tca> Thanks to all of you.
<Daviey> hey pleia2, thanks
<Daviey> I've come to show my support for tgm4883, foxbuntu and rhpot1991.  I know them through their contribution towards ubuntu-mythtv and Mythbuntu.  They've been hard workers, and have showed sustained and continued effort towards the development of Mythtv on Ubuntu.  They've been involved with the project now for around 2 years.  Showing an all-round effort in both bug work, development and user support.
<Daviey> These fine chaps are part of the core Mythbuntu team, and i'm suprised they've left it this long to seek memebership.  They really deserve it.  I should also mention that it's 2am for me, as i really wanted to say this in person.
<nixternal> Daviey: shouldn't you be in bed?
<Daviey> nixternal: i should.. but i care about people.. :)
<pleia2> Daviey: thanks for staying up :) says a lot
<nixternal> awww, how sweet
<Daviey> And now to bed..
<nhandler> superm1 also wanted to express his support for the mythtv people
<Daviey> nn all
<effie_jayx> Daviey, I am sure he will appreciate it
<vantrax> that speaks about their commitment, and yours:P
<nixternal> g'nite Davieypoo
<rhpot1991> night Daviey thanks!
<Daviey> xx
<tgm4883> night Daviey, thanks
<foxbuntu> night Daviey
<doctormo> Hello
<pleia2> doctormo: you're up!
<nixternal> he is in Mass, so it is only 21:21 there :p
<nixternal> I think he is still there
<pleia2> I meant, it's his turn :)
<doctormo> I'm still in Mass, otherwise how could I be leader of ubuntu-us-ma?
<doctormo> OK what do you want me to do? introduction?
<nixternal> you would be surprised
<st33med> Go to church?
<pleia2> introduction
<doctormo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MartinOwens
 * nixternal notes that he wants a hat like doctormo
<lajjr> like name etc?
<doctormo> My name is Martin Owens, I'm from Widnes, UK but now live in Boston, USA via marriage.
<MTecknology> I want to say that doctormo helped me get my team going. He also contributed some material that interested a few members into my team
<doctormo> I'm a programmer, originally specialised in Perl with a number of cpan modules have moved on towards python development.
 * nixternal thanks doctormo for the LP OpenID Django framework
<doctormo> I operate a number of projects on launchpad, some LoCo related, some not.
<doctormo> As above, I also operate the Ubuntu Massachusetts LoCo team, making sure meeting happen, things are organised and people stick to doing what they say they will do.
<doctormo> I'm also currently involved in bringing local Community centers into a Learn to Teach, Teach to learn project. Where FOSS and Ubuntu are taught to students who are then encouraged to teach others.
<doctormo> Fixing the oft neglected community center infrastructure and teaching basic systems admin skills to the staff.
<effie_jayx> doctormo, good work in the coomunity
<johnc4510> doctormo was also the person who organized the case badges for the loco teams
<doctormo> I also do a bit of graphics art, for the design of posters (see spread ubuntu) and other fun arts (see deviant art)
<doctormo> http://doctormo.deviantart.com/
<Technoviking> evening
<vorian> case badges!
<Technoviking> sorry I'm late
<johnc4510> vorian: yes
<doctormo> http://spreadubuntu.neomenlo.org/
<vorian> johnc4510: i remember will
<johnc4510> ah
<vorian> that was a very fine effort doctormo
<MTecknology> doctormo has been trying to get the badges produced by another company to save costs too
<MTecknology> what was that site?
<doctormo> MTecknology: ZaReason have taken over production, hopefully they will be ready soon since they've taken delivery already
<johnc4510> nice
<tgm4883> I feel the need to say that those case badges are sweet and our LoCo team bought a bunch
<vorian> +1 from me
<doctormo> I worked for Canonical as a QA guy for a short time, I can be opinionated sometimes too.
<MTecknology> heh...
<effie_jayx> +1
<pleia2> +1 from me
<MTecknology> I +1 what doctormo said - but +1 his app too :P
<pleia2> solid work doctormo :) excellent work with the mass team
<nixternal> +1 from me
<MTecknology> congrats doctormo
<johnc4510> doctormo: w00t  congrats!
<doctormo> thank you
<nhandler> Congrats doctormo !
<nixternal> congrats and welcome doctormo!
<charlie-tca> doctormo: Congratulations!
<lajjr> Congratz doctormo
<doctormo> One step closer to ruling the world! Mwhahah
<vantrax> he he he
<vantrax> grats doctormo
<charlie-tca> One step at a time...
<doctormo> Thanks guys, now I can blog into the planet
<pleia2> woohoo :)
<MTecknology> xq gone..
<pleia2> lajjr: you're up!
<lajjr> thank you
<effie_jayx> doctormo, not yet
<lajjr> My name Leo Jackson from Scranton Pa
<doctormo> effie_jayx: darn, more red tape! care to PM me?
<lajjr> I'm a member of several groups I write software for a living.
<effie_jayx> doctormo, no red tape... we have to approve you into launchpad
<MTecknology> effie_jayx: I explained it
<lajjr> I have been working on kill bus answering questions.
<lajjr> I want to help in the killing of bugs more and contribute more.
<pedro_> lajjr: in which packages do you tend to do triage?
<lajjr> I have put Ubuntu server on my system at my company almost completely converted and just help as much as possible.
<lajjr> well I try to help i them all if possible on  server ubuntu i helped a few package some.
<lajjr> I work in firefox inkscape general question due to
<pleia2> lajjr: why aren't you part of the ubuntu pennsylvania team? :)
<lajjr> me trying to give more time to this.
<lajjr> I am...
<pleia2> hmm, I don't think I've ever seen you around
<pleia2> ah, you're on the launchpad team
<pleia2> interested in getting involved?
<lajjr> sure I would love to..
<pleia2> should hang out in our channel :) we're a friendly bunch and really could use some people up toward scranton
<lajjr> not a problem I have a small bunch from my company I will get to join to.
<pleia2> cool :)
<lajjr> about 25 +
<lajjr> sorry small i will get others..heh
<pleia2> lajjr: I see you've joined a lot of teams... which ones would you say you are primarily active in?
<lajjr> beginners to help with question installs etc.
<lajjr> help in kernels to check code and security.
<pleia2> would you say your work primarily revolves around working within launchpad?
<lajjr> yes and no..
<pedro_> lajjr: have you ever worked with the security team on the last one (check code and security)?
<vorian> huh?
<lajjr> I work on ubuntu server on IRC and on gnome project back and forth..
<effie_jayx> lajjr, what teams do you actively participate in the community. or you mainly do your contirbutions on your own
<nixternal> lajjr: I notice you state on your wiki page that you want to become a core developer...are you planning on joining the ubuntu-universe-contributors team, work towards MOTU, or anything packaging related? I see you are on the Ruby Packagers team, have you packaged anything for them yet?
<effie_jayx> ?
<lajjr> not that one I had an engagement to go to..
<lajjr> yep on launch pad I have two project I'm going to package for revu and I will start kitting more..
<ScottK> lajjr: I'm pretty active on #ubuntu-server and I don't rember you.  What have you been doing for Ubuntu Server?
<lajjr> well effie_jayx  I try to contribute where I find needs.
<effie_jayx> lajjr, right
<lajjr> answered some questions and was helping with a few people with install after they found that they downloaded the wrong version..heh
<vorian> lajjr: what i see is a person from "your" LoCo, and a very active Server team developer say they havent heard of you.  Why is that?
<lajjr> well I have been developing for my company I am starting more on the whole thing..
<lajjr> I have company that I wanted to make right before I do wrong to others..
<vorian> lajjr: i think you need to get to know these folks a little better.  Ubuntu membership is about being a part of the community as a whole.
<vorian> Spend some time on irc with your loco team
<lajjr> get all the code and everything else rolling..
<vorian> or mailing lists.  Submit some patches, things like that
<lajjr> I will not a problem.
<Bamojr> vorian: sometimes hanging out in your LoCo Irc is lonely ;)
<vantrax> lol
<lajjr> heh
<Bamojr> lets party in wv room
<Bamojr> te he
<pleia2> lajjr: and I think you want to more specifically document your work on your wiki, you have joined a lot of teams but it's hard to pinpoint precisely what work you've done beside questions and bugs
<effie_jayx> I agree with pleia2
<lajjr> ok I will change and add links..
<pleia2> and don't say you're part of the Penn LoCo when you've never contributed :)
<lajjr> WOW...
<Bamojr> *crickets*
<vantrax> *butterflies*
<MTecknology> what's going on in here?
<st33med> *ladybugs*
<effie_jayx> lajjr, well it would be cool to have you back in a couple of months
<vorian> please stop with the commentary
<pleia2> lajjr: I think you're on a great track with questions and bugs :) please keep up the great work
<MTecknology> lajjr: if you enjoy bugs, try to get into the bug control team
<nixternal> lajjr: at this time I would have to say I would like to see more contributions out of you...especially with the amount of teams you belong to and say you want to code and patch, but I can't find any traces of each right now...your answer tracking on LP, AWESOME! keep that up...get some people to endorse you and come back..that is my recommendation..you are definitely on your way
<nixternal> I hope that didn't get cut off
<MTecknology> lajjr: it's usually pretty easy to contribute to loco's too
<nhandler> nixternal: It went through
<nixternal> groovy
<lajjr> or no problem now that I have the system down some I will.
<vorian> great!
<MTecknology> lajjr: good luck
<vorian> we look forward to seeing you again soon
<nixternal> my vote at this time will be a -1 and want to say I would like you to come back in about a month with endorsements, hang out with the PA LoCo, and if you want to get into packaging, #ubuntu-motu :)  Good work thus far!
<lajjr> ok thanks..will do.
<nixternal> lajjr: vorian is a ruby freak too, and an insane packaging guru, so he is always open to offer some help
<pleia2> foxbuntu: your turn! :)
 * vorian nods
<foxbuntu> pleia2, ah caught me a off guard, here goes
<foxbuntu> I am Nick Fox. I have been using Ubuntu since 6.04 and working on the Mythbuntu project since the 7.04 development cycle. ( https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NickFox )
<vorian> wait, isn't tgm4883 next?
<nixternal> hehe
<foxbuntu> should I wait?
 * tgm4883 hopes it wasn't an intential skip
<pleia2> oh
<foxbuntu> I think tgm4883 wants his turn :)
<pleia2> I didn't see you there tgm4883!
<pleia2> sorry :)
<tgm4883> thats alright
<tgm4883> foxbuntu, can finish since he started
<pleia2> ok, thanks :)
<nixternal> ya, it should be really quick for foxbuntu
<foxbuntu> In my time working on the Mythbuntu project as a core dev, I have helped to support, improve upon, and generate new code in an effort to make the user experience better and management of the MythTV and Ubuntu based systems easier.
<foxbuntu> I have also made an effort to triage and repair bugs when possible. When my code contribution time becomes limited I still try to make time to support users in the Mythbuntu IRC user channel.
<foxbuntu> I also make a continuing effort to support the community in ways to help promote bringing new users into the Ubuntu community. I believe so highly in the community and its efforts, that I have "put my money where my mouth is" (so to speak). I incorporated Fox Media Systems, LLC in late 2007 and began a long process to invest time and money into a dedicated, ready to use Mythbuntu based Personal Video Recorder.
<pleia2> hurrah mythbuntu :)
<foxbuntu> indeed
<foxbuntu> she is my mistress, at least thats what my wife thinks
<foxbuntu> :)
<pleia2> lol
<pleia2> foxbuntu: future plans?
<nixternal> foxbuntu: did you and mario hang out when he used to frequent Iowa?
<foxbuntu> nixternal, I went to ISU with mario
<nixternal> that's what I thought, I have seen the pictures :D
<foxbuntu> pleia2, tons, I want to get into MOTU and also start learning about and working more with the kernel
<pleia2> cool
<nixternal> how come you waited so long to go for Ubuntu membership? Are you planning on going for MOTU and/or Core Dev?
<foxbuntu> nixternal, oh my, the pictures
<nixternal> hehe
<vorian> +1 from me, excellent work
<foxbuntu> nixternal, honestly, I didnt think I was qualified until I sat down and looked at my work over the last few years, and yes, I want to get into MOTU and perhaps even core dev
<nixternal> just so everyone knows in here....I AM STARVING!  MootBot make a note of that please
<nixternal> lol, over the last few years....
<nixternal> groovy foxbuntu
<nixternal> +1 from me
<Technoviking> +1 here, great work
<pleia2> +1 from me, fantastic work :)
<pedro_> +1 as well
<nhandler> Congrats foxbuntu
<foxbuntu> Thanks everyone
<vantrax> grats foxbuntu
<nixternal> congrats and welcome foxbuntu
<effie_jayx> +1
<charlie-tca> foxbuntu: Congratulations
<tgm4883> gj foxbuntu
<vantrax> btw the mythbuntu personal video recorder... did it get finished?
<pleia2> congrats, welcome foxbuntu :)
<pleia2> tgm4883: ok, you can go now :)
<vorian> congrats foxbuntu :)
<foxbuntu> now your all in for some real trouble with me hanging around ;)
<tgm4883> I'm Thomas Mashos, Mythbuntu developer and been using Ubuntu since Edgy.  tgm4883 on IRC and the forums.  Recently I'm more active on IRC in the #ubuntu-mythtv support channel, although have been pretty active on the forums in the past.  It seems now I mostly just work with Mythbuntu on getting MythTV related things packaged and into the repos, failing that I stick them in a PPA.  I'm also working with some other developers help
<tgm4883> ing them package their software for inclusion in the Ubuntu repos.  I run the development version of Ubuntu (stable on the rest of my machines) in the hopes of finding bugs early enough that they can be fixed before Final release.
<tgm4883> whoa that was longer than I thought
<pleia2> :)
<nixternal> hehe
<MTecknology> tgm4883: how often do you file and follow bug reports from ubuntu+1?
<tgm4883> more often than not, I go to file a bug, and it's already been filed
<nixternal> need to speed up your crash times then :p
<vorian> tgm4883: what are your plans for the future? any branching out?
<nixternal> tgm4883: why did you wait so long for ubuntu membership? plans for motu and/or core dev?
<tgm4883> also, I usually do testing on the dev versions of mythbuntu, and fix bugs there without filing the reports.  This is the earliest i've run dev ubuntu on a regular machine (non vm)
<tgm4883> In the future, I'd like to become a MOTU, and go to UDS.
<doctormo> tgm4883: you don't need to be a MOTU to go to UDS
<vorian> great stuff
<tgm4883> even though superm1 urged me to apply for membership around 8.04 dev cycle, I didn't feel my contributions were quite there yet
<MTecknology> doctormo: I think that was two different statements
<vorian> +1 from me
<nixternal> +1 from me
<MTecknology> congrats tgm4883
<tgm4883> doctormo, while this is true, I just (in december) graduated from college, and UDS was finals week
<tgm4883> so it was UDS or diploma
 * foxbuntu is considering the 9.10 UDS
<pleia2> bah, diplomas :)
<vantrax> grats on the diploma
<tgm4883> thanks
<doctormo> foxbuntu: It's in spain, I can't leave to us until Julyish :-(
<doctormo> s/to us/The USA/
<foxbuntu> doctormo, travel is not an issue for me
 * doctormo demands the use of foxbuntu's teleporter
<foxbuntu> haha
<tgm4883> 9.04 UDS pained me too, as it was about an 8 hour drive and probably the closest that UDS will get to me
<pleia2> awesome myth work, tgm4883! +1 from me
<pedro_> a +1 from here
<foxbuntu> ok ok, nuf chat
<nixternal> there we go.....
<effie_jayx> +1 from me too
<Technoviking> +1 here
<nixternal> congrags and welcome tgm4883
<nhandler> Congrats tgm4883 !
<pleia2> congrats tgm4883, welcome
<tgm4883> thanks
<foxbuntu> congrats tgm4883
<vorian> welcome and congrats tgm4883
<charlie-tca> tgm4883: Congratulations
<doctormo> Congratulations tgm4883, foxbuntu
<MTecknology> vantrax: hello :)
<vantrax> My name is Matthew Lye, I'm 24 year old IT Support monkey from Brisbane Australia.
<vantrax> I work on developing Ubuntu images for large scale education environments. I've been using Ubuntu since Mid 07. I am a member of the Ubuntu Forums Beginners Team and the Unanswered Posts team. I am particularly proud of the work as part of the Ubuntu Forums Beginners Team Education and IRC help groups.
<vantrax> I prepare tutorials and teaching materials for the Beginners Team to use to help new users understand linux and preform complex tasks. I have started to migrate website of tutorials and lessons which will be obviously be more useful to the community in the Wiki. I am currently focused on helping new users and Ubuntu for education environments, and eventually hope to contribute in improving the user experience of Ubuntu.
<vantrax> My wiki page if you have not seen it can be found at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Vantrax
<vantrax> triage so that I can assist in getting the bugs that the new users I've been helping find to people who can solve the problems for them.
<vantrax> whoops missed a line
<vantrax> For the future I've recently asked Rocket2DMn to help me learn to triage so that I can assist in getting the bugs that the new users I've been helping find to people who can solve the problems for them.
<nixternal> vantrax: why in the world would you join the "Vorian Huggers" team? :p
 * nixternal notes he just joined it
<pleia2> haha
<vantrax> blame nhandler for that one
<nhandler> ???
<nixternal> vantrax: ahhhh, should have figured nhandler was behind it all!
<vorian> HAHA
<vantrax> he he he
<nhandler> vantrax: robbmunson made it, not me
<vantrax> true
<vantrax> where has he been lately anyway
<nixternal> vantrax: what are you plans for the future?
<vantrax> short term, learn to triage. Long term id like to work with improving the new user experience of Ubuntu and work on making Ubuntu a attractive option for enterprise environments
<nixternal> groovy, and I see you want to document too :)
<vantrax> Unfortunately its easier to manage 1000 Window boxes than 1000 Ubuntu ones
<nixternal> says who?
<doctormo> vantrax: Have you been involved with PXE or Imaging via networks?
<effie_jayx> w00t
<vantrax> doctormo, tons of it
<doctormo> vantrax: we should talk off channel
<vantrax> where i work we support 6000 machines on this campus alone
<nixternal> you gave me 1000 windows box, the only thing I would manage is to setup pxe and jaunty :p
<vantrax> another 8000 total across 5 campuses
<vantrax> nixternal, lol
<vantrax> i wis
<vantrax> h
<nixternal> ya, you said "campus" so I know what you are talking about
<pedro_> vantrax: btw you're welcome to join #ubuntu-bugs at anytime and ask for help on triage bugs if you haven't yet
<vantrax> I work in a big university
<nixternal> though I managed to switch the local campus from Novell to...umm, Novell
<nixternal> though they went from Windows to Linux at least :)
<vantrax> pedro_, im in ubuntu-bug right now
<vantrax> nixternal, we have a significant linux presence, and its increasing steadily along with mac
<nixternal> groovy
<pedro_> vantrax: yeah in announce, not in "ubuntu-bugs" ;-)
<vantrax> each hold about 10-15% of the fleet now
<vantrax> pedro_, oh:p whoops
<nixternal> +1 from me
<nhandler> I would just like to mention that vantrax has really made some substantial contributions to the Ubuntu Forums Beginners Team Education group.
<pleia2> +1 from me, excellent work, great testimonials!
<vantrax> Bodhi_Zazen wanted to as well, but he had to head home to the kids
<pleia2> ooh good, vantrax going to do a classroom presentation at some point? :)
<vorian> +1
<vantrax> several:P
<effie_jayx> +1
<pleia2> woohoo!
<Technoviking> +1 from me, great work
<vantrax> we have a meeting tomorrow to organise a few
<nhandler> vantrax: I thought it was on Saturday?
<pedro_> yeap +1, keep up the good work
<pleia2> vantrax: cool, nudge me when you do? I coordinate the schedule
<vantrax> thats tomorrow for me nhandler
<nixternal> congrats and welcome vantrax
<vantrax> will do
<pleia2> thanks :)
<nhandler> pleia2: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Education/Meetings
<vorian> welcome vantrax
<nhandler> And congrats vantrax
<pleia2> nhandler: ah, thanks :)
<vantrax> thanks
<charlie-tca> vantrax: Congratulations
<vantrax> nhandler, thanks, i was lookin for that
<pleia2> rhpot1991: you're up
<rhpot1991> Hello, I am John Baab, I live in Harrisburg PA.  I have been using Ubuntu as my primary OS since I made the switch after graduation college in 2004.
<rhpot1991> I am known as rhpot1991 on freenode irc, launchpad, and ubuntuforums.org.
<rhpot1991> I use my personal email address (listed on the wiki) on Mythbuntu and MythTV mailing lists, as well as for direct communications with users.
<rhpot1991> I am an active member of the Mythbuntu development team (for the last 2 years or so), helping out with bugs when I can.
<rhpot1991> I am upstream and packager for MythExport where most of my free time is donated to.
<rhpot1991> My main reason I do FOSS development is to give something to the community thus filling a gap which I don't feel my (paying) job fills, users have a direct method of communicating with me and often new features in MythExport are ones that users requested.
<rhpot1991> Friends often joke about all of my unpayed jobs.
<rhpot1991> In the future I plan on continuing my work with Mythbuntu and MythExport, and I would like to visit UDS when it is back in USA again.
<vorian> rhpot1991: why do you love mythbuntu as much as you do?
<vorian> :)
<rhpot1991> vorian: freedom, also I'm known to fight with comcast on occasion :)
<vorian> good enough for me
<foxbuntu> can I +1 rhpot1991 here? ;)
<vorian> sure
<vorian> anyone else want to cheer for rhpot1991?
 * tgm4883 starts the wave for rhpot1991 
<nixternal> this is attack of the mythbuntuerererererers
<pleia2> ooh, you're in PA :)
<rhpot1991> pleia2: already noted that I need to join :)
<pleia2> hehe
<nixternal> hey, why do all of the mythbuntu people have numbers after there name? if I missed a question/answer to that, just tell me to scroll up
<foxbuntu> nixternal, I dont
<tgm4883> nixternal, foxbuntu doesn't
<vorian> haha
<tgm4883> unless u is now a number?
<nixternal> ok, just one of you
<Daviey> *yawn* I don't
<nhandler> superm1 has it too
<vorian> puts ?u
<nixternal> Daviey: GO TO BED!
<pleia2> rhpot1991: what does 1991 mean? :)
<nixternal> haha, that was the 2nd question
 * rhpot1991 is embarrased to say :)
<tgm4883> pleia2, ask what rhpot means
<vorian> for the record
<vorian> >> puts ?u
<vorian> 117
<rhpot1991> rhpot1991 == robin hood price of theives, came out in 1991
<pleia2> haha, awesome
<vorian> +1 from me
<effie_jayx> +1 from me too
<nixternal> ROFL!!!
<vorian> pleia2: told ya
<pleia2> +1 from me, excellent work :)
<foxbuntu> YAY!
<nixternal> +1 just on what the name means alone
<nhandler> Congratulations rhpot1991
<rhpot1991> heh thanks guys!
<pleia2> nixternal: haha
<Technoviking> +1 here woot
<charlie-tca> rhpot1991:  Congratulations. Great name
<MTecknology> st33med: you gonna make it too?
<st33med> yes
<foxbuntu> congrats rhpot1991
<pleia2> congrats rhpot1991 :)
<nixternal> Congrats and welcome rhpot1991 !!!
<rhpot1991> pleia2: I just joined the LoCo on LP :)
<st33med> I've stayed way past my bedtime for this
<st33med> DEDICATION
<pleia2> st33med: you're up!
<st33med> Alright
<st33med> Hi, my name is Andrew.  I am a member of the Ubuntu Forums Beginners Team and have been for about two and a half years.  I participate frequently on IRC and help out when I can in Ubuntu Forums.  I have taught Python classes as part of this team's Education and Mentoring group. As an Ubuntu Member, I will promise to uphold the forum rules and continue to hold programming classes ASAP.
<vantrax> im impressed actually, ill bet hes in bed with his laptop...
<nixternal> lol
<st33med> vantrax, shhhhhhhh!
<nixternal> it is a bot
<st33med> I have also created a bot from Python
<st33med> from scratch, no supybot package
<nixternal> 10:30PM and that is past your bedtime?!?!? :)
<st33med> nixternal, I have school >.>
 * nixternal notes that he loves Manassas, VA
<vorian> yes, thanks for reminding me
<nhandler> I would like to say that st33med is a long time member of the Ubuntu Forums Beginners Team. He is very devoted and is always willing to help out users with questions both on IRC and on the forums
<vantrax> I actually have to head off, but id like to not the success and professionalism of the courses that st33med has run for the Ubuntu Forums Education Team and the contributions he has made helping people in IRC
<vantrax> *note
<vorian> st33med: what plans do you have for the future?
<st33med> vorian, I plan on trying to triage more in LP and see if I can be a developer for some packages
<st33med> Maybe you can teach me the ropes
<st33med> ;)
<vorian> sure, anytime
<ScottK> Well we're right in the middle of trying to convert over to Python 2.6 in Jaunty, so now's a good time to show up and help ...
<vorian> st33med: /j #ubuntu-motu :)
<st33med> I can try
<vorian> (#kubuntu-devel is fun too)
<vorian> I'm good
<nixternal> ya, setup offlineimap for python 2.6..silly ssl is killing me
<st33med> I am not that experienced with some of the python packages yet
<st33med> But, I can help
<vorian> anyone here to cheer for st33med?
 * nhandler already did
 * Daisuke_Ido cheers
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu needs developers, too
 * emma cheers++
<JanC> st33med: I think many python packages just need need "python (<< 2.6)" dependencies changed to something sensible  ;)
<vorian> st33med: just ask for help when you join, someone will point you in the right direction
<effie_jayx> st33med, what have been the challenges for you when it comes to your contribution to ubuntu as a project?
<emma> I would not know anything about Python if not for st33med's extremely well done classes through the Beginners team.
<emma> He's a wonderful instructor.
<ScottK> JanC: Many of those just need to be rebuilt.  It's testing if that's enough that takes the time.
<st33med> Well, I learned python old classes and needed to relearn new style clasess...
<st33med> It was hard trying to teach in a live chat room
<st33med> but I pulled through it
<nixternal> I hear you there, I did an IRC class 3 years ago on IRC...figure the odds
<pleia2> yay for more classroom stuff :)
<nixternal> uh oh, what do you want greg-g?
<st33med> Uh, votes?
<nixternal> hehe
<MTecknology> lol
<greg-g> hmm, yeah, I want to be voted for again.
<greg-g> for membership, that is.
<st33med> greg-g, no, for me XD
<pleia2> st33med: great work :) +1 from me
<nixternal> st33med: +1 from me
<vorian> +1 from me
<MTecknology> greg-g: -1
<nixternal> greg-g: -1 from me
<st33med> haha
<nixternal> hahaha
 * nixternal loves greg-g so +1 from me
<effie_jayx> +1
<st33med> greg-g, -pi
<Technoviking> +1
<greg-g> is the meeting still going on? don't let me interrupt (I honestly didn't know)
<nhandler> Congratulations st33med !
<pleia2> st33med: congrats! welcome :)
<ajmitch> nixternal: but would you give me a +1?
<charlie-tca> st33med: Congratulations.
<nixternal> wth
<greg-g> congrats st33med !
<st33med> greg-g, it is just over
<nhandler> greg-g: It is almost over
<st33med> thanks!
<nixternal> ajmitch: I would always give you a +1!!!
<emma> Congratulations st33med !!! â¥
<emma> *hugs* st33med :)
<MTecknology> You guys that got approved for support... I'm trying to burn an avi to a dvd with brasero - but I'm getting the error "It is not possible to write with the current set of plugins"
<nixternal> hrmm, my script broke on st33med's name
 * Daisuke_Ido ^5s st33med
<nixternal> congrats and welcome st33med
<st33med> And now I can hide this embarrassing comcast ip
<st33med> nixternal, script?
<nixternal> Congrats and welcome !!!
<nixternal> that one
<nixternal> you broke it! :)
<vantrax> st33med, ping pricey about that
<nixternal> is that is for tonight?
<MTecknology> st33med: wait till you're a member to ping though
<vorian> Pricey:
<nixternal> we get everyone? I can go eat now?
<st33med> Pricey,
<vorian> nixternal: yep, we're done
<nixternal> yeeeeehaw
 * nixternal goes and eats
<st33med> We'll keep pinging him till I pass out from tiredness
 * vantrax is munching on wedges atm
<nhandler> Congrats once again to all of the new members
<pleia2> st33med: alternatively, join #ubuntu-irc and ask :)
<greg-g> congrats all new members!
<vantrax> ^.^
<charlie-tca> MTecknology: use k3b
<st33med> Yeah, I'll do that later
<MTecknology> st33med: it won't happen until you're in the ubuntumembers team
<st33med> I am tiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiirrrrrrrrrrredddddddddd
<pleia2> MTecknology: he is :)
<MTecknology> pleia2: already?
<pleia2> yes
<st33med> MTecknology, where have you been?
<pleia2> haha
<MTecknology> pleia2: you guys are fast this tim
<MTecknology> e
<st33med> Only one person took a lot of time
<MTecknology> it took a day or two for me :P
<st33med> Yay, email
<MTecknology> charlie-tca: I'll try k3b
<MTecknology> it took just about a week for my email to start :P
<charlie-tca> I haven't gotten a dvd to burn right yet in brasero
<st33med> charlie-tca, try k3b
<st33med> love it
<charlie-tca> Thanks
<st33med> night all
<vorian> try k*
<st33med> Also, my cloak won't be applied until I request it to be, right?
<nhandler> Correct st33med
<st33med> Coolio
<PupUserecb945> yo
 * lool waves
<dendrobates> o/
<slangasek> morning
<robbiew> o/
<fader> Howdy
<pitti> hello
<slangasek> cjwatson, davidm, Riddell, sbeattie, mdz, Hobbsee, ScottK: ping
<cjwatson> pong
<ScottK> o/
<sbeattie> hey
<mdz> slangasek: in meeting, will only be lurking
<heno> hello
<slangasek> mdz: ack
<davidm> slangasek, I'm here as is lool
<slangasek> ok - sounds like quorum :)
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:03. The chair is slangasek.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * pgraner_ waves
<slangasek> [LINK] Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-03-06
<MootBot> LINK received:  Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-03-06
 * davidbarth waves
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Outstanding actions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Outstanding actions
<slangasek> just a couple of these from last time that I don't know the current status of
<slangasek> rtg: is everything on track regarding ATI kernel patches?
 * Riddell not here
<slangasek> Riddell: ok
<rtg> slangasek: on track? Its still in progress. Bryce sent a preliminary last week.
<rtg> the patches look ok, but have not been released
<slangasek> ok; are we holding off for official release before making images available?
<rtg> pretty much
<slangasek> are they confirmed to apply ok to our kernel and not break the build?
<rtg> in fact, I think they are due to be released today, though I've not built them
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> pitti: computer-janitor - I think the "follow up" is done, because I see it's installed now by ubuntu-desktop?
<pitti> right, done
<slangasek> ok, great
<cjwatson> (yay)
<slangasek> last outstanding action is mine - following up on bug #88746
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 88746 in linux "ehci_hcd module causes I/O errors in USB 2.0 devices" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/88746
<slangasek> that's going to require me to spend a little "face-time" with the bug, since it's basically a question of triaging a metabug
<slangasek> but I'll try to take care of that next week
<slangasek> [TOPIC] QA team
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA team
<slangasek> heno, fader, sbeattie: heya
<sbeattie> hey
<fader> Hey
<heno> hi
<sbeattie> Bug 324215: already fixed in checkbox 0.5 upload, but didn't get auto-closed.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 324215 in checkbox "hwtest-gtk fails to uninstall if hwtest is no longer installed" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/324215
<slangasek> ok, great!
<fader> Hardware certification: all the servers are up and running tests now modulo a few with issues (that have RT tickets filed and being worked on).  I'll be in Montreal next week working with the team there to get manual testing ready for laptops for the alpha release.
<fader> Oh, and I hope to have VMWare testing running by today if all goes according to plan.
<slangasek> fader sent out an email pointing to a current hardware test report for our public hardware, for which I'll enthusiastically repaste the link here:
<slangasek> [LINK] http://people.ubuntu.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<heno> \o/
<fader> slangasek: thanks
<slangasek> fader: is that VMware ESX?
<fader> slangasek: Yes, ESX.
<slangasek> whee, so we'll be able to get some feedback on the ESX SRU bug finally? :)
<sbeattie> slangasek: err, which bug is that?
<fader> Hopefully... Let me make sure I get the tests running on it before I promise usable results. ;)
<slangasek> sbeattie: don't have it to hand, will dig it up for you after the meeting
<sbeattie> slangasek: okay
<heno> FYI, we can do manual testing on ESX now, ful automation will need some work
<slangasek> ok
<heno> finally Brian has been working on a fixed bug report: http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/bug-fixing/jaunty-fixes-report.html
<slangasek> [LINK] fixed bug report:               http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/bug-fixing/jaunty-fixes-report.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  fixed bug report:               http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/bug-fixing/jaunty-fixes-report.html
<slangasek> saw that on planet, looks nice :)
<heno> That only covers bugs listed as fixed on the -changes list ATM
<cjwatson> how often does it update?
<cjwatson> I think it's fine for it only to cover -changes, personally?
<heno> not sure, last update was Wednesday
<heno> I expect they will be updated daily
<slangasek> heno: what's the overall sense of release bugginess, and whether we're on-track for release in that respect?
<cjwatson> (I asked because it hasn't updated since I checked it yesterday morning ;-) )
<cjwatson> I noticed that we are still well behind our fix numbers for intrepid
<pitti> I agree that just covering -changes is sufficient; closing bugs without package uploads is great clean-up and triage, but most probably not our bug fixing
<cjwatson> this is a bit disappointing since I'd hoped we would be doing significantly better this release
<cjwatson> does anyone have any idea of where intrepid was at the same point in the cycle?
<pitti> no :(, just wanted to ask
<cjwatson> it would perhaps be interesting to get that figure, e.g. by counting intrepid-changes only up to now - 6 months
<cjwatson> I suppose the intrepid-changes stats also cover SRUs
<heno> slangasek: nothing that worries us at the moment - the more frequent HW testing we are now seeing should gives up a better picture
<heno> I still want to dig into sound issues again though
<slangasek> ok, that's good - I look forward to having that testing input
<heno> that's all from QA
<slangasek> ok, thanks
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Desktop team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop team
<pitti> as usual, desktop status is on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<pitti> today I went through all the milestoned bugs and ensured that all of them have proper assignees
<slangasek> [LINK] Desktop team status https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  Desktop team status https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<pitti> (not just the desktop ones)
<pitti> I also went through the jaunty-targetted bugs to check for desktop-ish things which fell through the cracks, b
<pitti> ut nothing too worrying for now.
<pitti> by now, most (6/11) RC bugs on the report are X.org driver problems; debugging and triaging is going on, but t
<pitti> hey are intrinsically hard with us not having any driver developer, so we can only rely on upstream's support
<pitti> aside from that, desktop front has settled down now, we just want to concentrate on fixing bugs now
<pitti> on the "new gdm" issue, I updated DK and DK-P in jaunty today, and plan to look into ppa-packaging the new gpm over the weekend
<slangasek> bug #304871> "hard problem" - do we think that's going to have to end up a release-noted regression, or is there community developers supporting this that we can work with?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 304871 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "[i845G] Fatal server error: Couldn't bind memory for BO front buffer (Jaunty)" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/304871
<pitti> slangasek: no community developers so far; I asked bryce whether we can auto-transition to vesa on those models at least, or perhaps even resurrect -i810 for those models
<pitti> but he's not awake yet
<pitti> -vesa would still be better than breaking completely, at least
<slangasek> I've seen good progress on 320632, do you know if tseliot is planning to upload to jaunty any time soon?
<pitti> but in that case it should be release-note'd
<pitti> slangasek: he did already
<pitti> slangasek: but one reporter reopened it, apparently it still doesn't work everywhere
<slangasek> I had mentioned resurrecting i810 before to bryce and he gave me a funny look. :)
<slangasek> pitti: ah, ok - will have a look at my bug mail on that later this morning then
 * ScottK has an 845 running Dapper he'd hoped to upgrade ....
<pitti> ScottK: hardy should still be working?
<pitti> I mean, it was confirmed to work on intrepid stilil
<pitti> "still"
<slangasek> 305790> I think part of the problem isn't just getting it building with OpenJDK, there seems to be no end to the recursive dependencies being pulled in by OOo.  Do we need to do some analysis of the build-dep graph and try to find somewhere we can do a bit of surgery?
<ScottK> Yes, but I'd hoped to get to the current release.
<slangasek> fwiw, now that I know 328035 is my bug (as well as mdz's) and that it's heap corruption, I'm going to dare to try running my X under valgrind for a bit to see what happens :)
<pitti> slangasek: right, I'm not at all willing to get maven and it's long dep tail into main
<mdz> slangasek: I was not brave enough to try that
<lool> What will happen is extreme slowness   :-P
<slangasek> mdz: I just trippled my RAM the other week, time to be daring :)
<mdz> slangasek: we might have better luck bisecting
<slangasek> ah, there is that
<slangasek> I'll talk to bryce when he's awake
<cjwatson> bisecting server+drivers has been painful IME
<cjwatson> depends how recently it was introduced
<slangasek> yeah, it also doesn't help that the interval for reproducing is on the order of several days
<slangasek> (I think I can reproduce faster than Matt because I change my video output a lot for hooking up an LCD)
<slangasek> anyway
<slangasek> pitti: thanks for the report - anything else?
<pitti> no, I'm done
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Mobile team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mobile team
<lool> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap
<lool> Most of our work is currently focused on the Freescale Babbage board and anything related to its enablement.  We will build a new flavor for it.  We work on new tools to generate RedBoot config, RedBoot partition tables, and SD images of these plus a kernel plus an initramfs plus a rootfs.  The rootfs will be a live system for now.
<lool> Major risks with this project:
<lool> - need kernel .debs in the archive (kernel team)
<lool> - kernel bugs (e.g. initramfs seems flaky, Ethernet and USB have issues, Audio doesn't work etc.)
<lool> - building RedBoot from source with FSL patches and/or packaging it
<lool> Interesting spec status:
<lool> arm-library-optimizations: glibc and pango ready for upload but waiting for kernel patch to be merged in our porter and buildd boxes by IS; WIP on gtk and cairo; ffmpeg-debian being discussed because of NEON
<lool> poulsbo-packaging: intrepid packaging starts working for 2D but 3D crashes, jaunty packaging will be identical and so is almost ready
<lool> jaunty-unr: expected to be complete for A6, last 2 patches have been acked and a
<lool> re about to be merged by Seb
<lool> Bugs on our radar, but not all release critical:
<lool> 299847: slow progress, Michael has trouble simplifying the tests and writing a C test case, but we're distracted by other stuff and will continue chasing this
<lool> 328167: Oliver just managed to reproduce and is trying to gather useful info
<lool> 309396: We discussed a simpler way forward with Colin which is to backport the relevant syslinux fixes; Emmet started doing that
<lool> 280669: In all cases jax10 now works on lpia and i386 but it seems apw's kernel selects a higher DMA mode; last thing is stress testing the driver a little before we recommend the patch for inclusion and upstreaming
<lool> 336770: Oliver is writing a MIR for promotion of flash-kernel to main
<lool> 338148: needs merge from Debian
<lool> (done for the dump)
<slangasek> lool: "NEON"?
<lool> That's SIMD
<lool> altivec for ARM if you prefer
<slangasek> ok
<lool> ARM wanted this enabled, but it's not runtime detected
<lool> I provided info on how to do so, but it's not trivial in ffmpeg
<lool> (For the way NEON is implemented)
<lool> So we might provide alternate binary packages via shlibs "|" dependencies
<lool> But there's no support for pulling that automatically on ARMv7 systems
<slangasek> for the bugs you listed, which ones are the ones you *do* consider release-critical?
<lool> The other way is to provide vfp libs, but that only works for VFP opts, not NEON
<lool> 328167 is RC
<lool> 309396 kind of, but we don't give a lot of love to the affected flavors in general
<lool> 336770 is probably a blocker for archive consistency, but trivial
<lool> That's all RC from that list; the RC "stuff" which we want in is babbage support, that includes having a kernel for it, redboot and all, infrastructure and more, and as much vfp libs as possible, probably the one I've listed
<slangasek> [LINK] Mobile team status https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap
<MootBot> LINK received:  Mobile team status https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap
<lool> VFP is half done when we get the kernel fixed
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> what's the ETA for that?
<lool> Babbage is making good progress, but mostly out of archive   :-/
<lool> IS has a ticket for the VFP-fixed kernel, it's very urgent
<slangasek> ok
<lool> The Babbage is probably going to fail A6 because the distro kernel will land in the coming days (ask kernel team / amitk), and that's too short for us to have everything working at the same time
<rtg> lool: does this require the new ARM flavour taht we're working on?
<lool> But it should be ok immediately after that
<lool> rtg: No, that's just because IS would like the buildd board to be supported by our official kernel
<lool> rtg: Which I agree is a more than very good idea
<rtg> lool: we should have that done today
<lool> (I raised this in the past, but couldn't do much about it since the Mobile team doesn't have any marvell board, only IS has)
<lool> rtg: Babbage or Marvell?
<rtg> lool: the MV7 (I think)
<lool> Marvell is not RC IMO; it's a nice to have but we lived since months on hand built kernels on the buildds and porter box
<slangasek> lool, davidm: anything else?
<lool> That's all for me, happy to answer question or give more details after the meeting as well
<davidm> slangasek, lool covered everything I had on my list
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Kernel team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel team
<pgraner> slangasek: LP 319729 I thought we put that to bed last meeting... I opened a release note task, gave sample text for it as well
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 319729 in ubuntu-release-notes "ARM architecture lacks support for pselect() and ppoll()" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/319729
<pgraner> rtg: you know anything about? LP 320813
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 320813 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "[drm] compiz animations cause temporary freezes with vblank" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/320813
<rtg> nope
<slangasek> pgraner: it popped back up because lool mentioned to me that there are patches available - any chance of integrating those before release? (which beats an SRU any day if we can manage it)
<slangasek> if not, I'll take it off the list
<pgraner> slangasek: nope not at this point
<rtg> slangasek: I'm looking at the ppoll/pselect [patch right now
<lool> The CodeSourcery folks told us last week that it was a well known issue that pselect and ppoll were missing and that Russell didn't comment on the proposed patches so far
<pgraner> slangasek: we should stick to the original plan and go from there if the patches pan out
<lool> I figured that we had an actual test case and a semi-ack that a fix would be useful from Russel now
<slangasek> pgraner: ack
<pgraner> slangasek: on 320813 timo is working so I don't have any real viz into it
<pgraner> slangasek: rtg can address LP 317781
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 317781 in linux "Ext4 data loss" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/317781
<rtg> ext4: there are 6 or 7 stable patches in Ted's tree. I've been waiting for them to appear via stable update.
<rtg> but, one of them is an ABI bumper, so I've been dragging my feet
<slangasek> ok, I see follow-ups from timo on 320813 that suggest the jaunty task should probably be wontfixed
<slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to follow up on bug 320813 (wontfix jaunty?)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to follow up on bug 320813 (wontfix jaunty?)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 320813 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "[drm] compiz animations cause temporary freezes with vblank" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/320813
<pgraner> slangasek: thats it for the kernel team....
<slangasek> rtg: hmm, better sooner than later for an ABI bump?  (but also better not while we're rolling milestone candidates, of course :)
<rtg> slangasek: they have not been officially released
<slangasek> ok
<rtg> the ext4 patches, I mean
<slangasek> is that worth mentioning in the bug?
<rtg> I've a couple of other kernel items
<rtg> I want to move madwifi out of LRM since Leffler opened the HAL
<rtg> Wireless CRDA is causing some "interesting" regulatory issues,
<rtg> still working with Luis to determine the ultimate solution.
<rtg> rf-kill: apw currently working with an Intel patch.
<rtg> thats all from me
<slangasek> can you elaborate wrt moving madwifi out of LRM?
<rtg> slangasek: I'll update the ext4 bug with that info
<slangasek> does that mean dropping madwifi in favor of the fully free driver?
<rtg> move madwifi into the kernel package, but it'll require some jockey coordination I think
<slangasek> or moving madwifi into another package?
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> can you coordinate with pitti regarding jockey and file an FFe?  That sounds like it carries some risk
<rtg> is it really a feature?
<rtg> I'm not positive it'll cause jockey problems, but I just want to be sure.
<pitti> well, if it's just moving the driver into a new packge, then the change is simple
<pitti> well, maybe not that simple
<pitti> we currently don't have a proper jockey handler for madwifi
<slangasek> there are no potential problems from having this driver become available by default?
<pitti> I've been meaning to write one to get better strings, etc.
<rtg> slangasek: its black listed by default
<slangasek> ok - and the blacklist will remain in place?
<rtg> yep
<rtg> ath5k is the preferred driver
<slangasek> in that case, no need for an FFe for me
<pitti> rtg: the new madwifi package will ship the blacklist file?
<slangasek> sounds like the kernel will ship it
<rtg> no, its current in modutils
<slangasek> or that
<rtg> crrently*
<rtg> there should be no external behavior change.
<slangasek> sounds good
<slangasek> rtg, pgraner: thanks
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Foundations team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations team
<cjwatson> Foundations status is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Jaunty
<cjwatson> nothing too much to call out from that, we lopped about half the RC bug list off from last time and gained a little under the same again :-/
<slangasek> [LINK] Foundations team status http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Jaunty
<MootBot> LINK received:  Foundations team status http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Jaunty
<cjwatson> but that's more or less to be expected
<slangasek> right :)
<cjwatson> three of the known issues from alpha 5 were ours, and are all believed to be done
<cjwatson> 334278 was mostly a udev bug, although I also added a few more bits of synchronisation to the installer; this will bear further testing with a6, though
<slangasek> 292159> kernel panic?  any help we can give evand on that?
<cjwatson> 334281 is uploaded now
<cjwatson> the ARM/NSLU2 thing is uploaded too so that it doesn't do expensive locale generation on lowmem installs
 * slangasek nods
<cjwatson> hm, evand isn't here. He didn't sound as if he needed help earlier but I'll remind him to shout if he does
<cjwatson> (he reckoned it was something he was doing wrong)
<cjwatson> remarkably few of the regression-potential bugs are ours
<robbiew> whoohoo!
<robbiew> :)
<cjwatson> basically just 324614 (software-properties) and 331442 (ubiquity)
<cjwatson> I hadn't looked at those until this afternoon, but I'll make sure they get attention
<slangasek> I think that's because we disclaimed responsibility for the X server this cycle :)
<cjwatson> as robbiew points out, our team has a vast number of assigned bugs compared to others, which I think in part reflects that many of us have been with Ubuntu for ages and have built up massive to-do lists of death
<cjwatson> but we'll probably need to do something about paring that down to be a little more manageable and viewable
<robbiew> heh...plus Foundations is the catch-all
<cjwatson> that's all from me; Robbie?
<robbiew> quick question on FFEs
<robbiew> am I right in seeing that we only have 2?
<robbiew> http://tinyurl.com/dcbv8n
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://tinyurl.com/dcbv8n
<slangasek> there are 8 outstanding FFes right now
<robbiew> ah
<robbiew> all for jaunty?
<cjwatson> robbiew: outstanding, or ever?
<robbiew> outstanding
<slangasek> you seem to have filtered by milestone for some reason?
<slangasek> FFes aren't generally tied to milestones
<slangasek> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-release/+subscribedbugs
<robbiew> right...then parse based on approx when they were opened
<slangasek> all of those are jaunty, I've gone through and killed off all the ones that weren't
<pitti> cjwatson: massive assigned lists> I found it a good exercise to clean up mine; many were already fixed, many obsolete, and for some I just unassigned because realistically I won't work on them
<cjwatson> pitti: yeah, I've been doing that a bit too, but of course it's second place to more urgent things
<pitti> cjwatson: yeah, absolutely; something to do when your brain isn't in 100% steam mode :)
<robbiew> slangasek: ok, and Keybuk's "meta" FFE isn't listed, right?
<slangasek> robbiew: correct
<slangasek> (though part of it is, in the form of the compiz FFe request)
<cjwatson> I wonder if that should've gone through a bug report
<robbiew> maybe we should require all FFEs to have some sort of LP bug associated...so we can track them
<slangasek> probably
<davidbarth> and you probably don't see the 3 from dxteam, because they are not properly tagged/miletstoned yet
<slangasek> then I don't have to maintain a wiki page that duplicates most of what's already in LP :)
<robbiew> ;)
<cjwatson> is there such a wiki page at the moment?
<slangasek> cjwatson: no, but robbiew asked for one
 * robbiew doesn't need one, if LP can do the work for us
<cjwatson> ah, right. I'd certainly prefer it all to be in LP
<robbiew> +1
<slangasek> davidbarth: what are those?  I guess they're not actually FFe requests until they've been submitted to the release team
<cjwatson> davidbarth: you'd just need to subscribe the ubuntu-release team to them
<davidbarth> slangasek: they are UIF exceptions, for things like 4 strings and icons
<slangasek> ok - please do subscribe ubuntu-release
<Keybuk> how should I handle the existing FFes?
<cjwatson> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
<Keybuk> I'm quite happy to file bugs and subscribe you guys, on the basis that they're already approved
<davidbarth> slangasek: plus the logout dialog thing that i'd like to get monitored even if it landed yesterday
<slangasek> Keybuk: that would be perfect, thanks
<cjwatson> (FEP> which says "After that, subscribe the release team, as usual" for UI freeze exceptions)
<davidbarth> slangasek: i have a list (wiki) but will be happy to subscribe them to ubuntu-release to get that tracked in LP
<slangasek> davidbarth: well, you have to subscribe ubuntu-release to actually be granted an exception by the release team... :)
<davidbarth> slangasek: will do
<slangasek> (UI freeze exceptions are usually trivial to approve, since the main concern is that the docs team *know* that things are changing)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Server team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server team
<slangasek> dendrobates: hi
<dendrobates> 3 things.  1 update and 2 FFE's that might be filed.
<dendrobates> bug 305264
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 305264 in gnutls26 "gnutls regression: failure in certificate chain validation" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/305264
<dendrobates> The openldap is fixed upstream and mathiaz should be grabbing it next week
<dendrobates> we are still trying to get a clean build of likewise-open 5.1
<slangasek> "clean" how?
<dendrobates> we had a new code drop yesterday and if it builds ttx will do an FFE Monday.
<dendrobates> will not build due to multiple problems.
<dendrobates> should all be fixed now, ttx is testing.
<slangasek> ok
<dendrobates> I was notified by the landscape team that they plan to have a code drop soon that adds new features.
<slangasek> is that the second FFe?
<dendrobates> yes
<dendrobates> the 2nd potential one, as I haven't seen any code yet.
<ScottK> There is also clamav 0.95.  It's RC is out and I'm hoping Debian will have a package soon for us to work on rdepends (as I haven't had time to package it).  Final should be out in a week or two.
<dendrobates> that's all I've got.
<slangasek> ScottK: and that one implies full rebuilds of all reverse-deps?  (ISTR discussing this earlier)
<ScottK> slangasek: Not just rebuilds.  Patching the libclamav rdepends.
<slangasek> right
<ScottK> There is one change in the clamd interface, but so far we haven't found a package it affects.
<slangasek> so I suppose that'll get a formal FFe request as well when the package is available
<ScottK> Yes.  Once it's out and we have the rdepends workable.
<ScottK> We'll work in the ubuntu-clamav PPA until then.
<slangasek> ok, great
<slangasek> [TOPIC] MOTU
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU
<slangasek> ScottK: all you :)
<ScottK> ;-)
<ScottK> All the libclamav rdepends are in Universe ....
<ScottK> The big thing for us right now is the Python transition
<ScottK> It's in full swing, but a lot of it involves package changes and not just rebuilding.
<slangasek> is there a python TODO list posted anywhere?
<slangasek> I've been picking off packages as I run into them
<ScottK> We're also hitting stuff more than I'd expected that won't work in 2.6.
<ScottK> slangasek: No, we've just been knocking stuff off as we find it.
<slangasek> yes, quodlibet wouldn't even build for me without code changes because of os.popen2() deprecation
<ScottK> I've been systematically working my way through the python2.5 rdepends, but it's slow
<cjwatson> really? I thought that was just a warning
<cjwatson> debconf.py was fine with it, it just whined on stderr (and I fixed it)
<slangasek> cjwatson: it is, but it somehow managed to break the build system :)
<ScottK> One of the major XML libs doesn't work in 2.6 and upstream says they won't support it.
 * ScottK is blanking on which one.
<slangasek> I didn't figure out why, I just patched it out and the build worked
<ScottK> That will cause all it's rdpends to stay on 2.5.
<slangasek> ScottK: hrm, yuck
<ScottK> So I think we are stuck with having 2.5 as a supported Python for this release.
<slangasek> dendrobates: speaking of python, I finished getting python2.5 off the server images, and amd64 server still weighs in at 716M
<ScottK> And of course Zope and related on 2.4.
<slangasek> dendrobates: does anyone from your team watch ubuntu-server CD size?
<slangasek> ScottK: ah, eew.  Can you find out which XML lib that is and let me know?
<ScottK> So my prediction is this one will take up a fair amount of community effort up until the end. Sure.
<ScottK> I have the bug somewhere.
<ScottK> That's it for Universe.
<ScottK> I'd like to add a couple of bits on Kubuntu if I could?
<slangasek> [ACTION] ScottK to get bug reference for XML lib that won't support python 2.6
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ScottK to get bug reference for XML lib that won't support python 2.6
<slangasek> go ahead
<ScottK> We uploaded both Qt 4.5 final and KDE 4.2.1 this week.
<ScottK> Things are a little rocky and Qt thought 4.5 was for 4.2 and KDE did not.
<ScottK> We're sorting through it, but it's 'fun'.
<ScottK> On ports we're pretty stuck for Power PC because Qt 4.5 ICE.
<ScottK> There's no way we have the expertise to sort through an ICE, so it'd be great if we could get some help with that.
<ScottK> That's it.
<cjwatson> doko: ^- ?
<slangasek> does someone have access to hardware to distill a reproducible test case?
<ScottK> None of the core Kubuntu team have power pc.
<ScottK> TheMuse does ....
<slangasek> IME that's the most labor-intensive part of debugging an ICE
<cjwatson> Riddell has access to davis.canonical.com
<ScottK> OK.  It's a bit beyond me to sort out who needs to do what to whom on this ...
<slangasek> cjwatson: could you take point on that?
<cjwatson> on getting the right people to sort it out?
<slangasek> yes
<cjwatson> I guess, yes
<cjwatson> (though not today)
<slangasek> [ACTION] cjwatson to find resources for debugging Qt ICE on powerpc
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to find resources for debugging Qt ICE on powerpc
<ScottK> There's a 2nd, much smaller package that also has a very similar ICE, so it might be a better source for a test case
<slangasek> ScottK: do you know the package name?
<slangasek> if not, could you get back to cjwatson with it later?
<ScottK> kde-style-skulpture
<slangasek> ok, thanks
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Known regressions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Known regressions
<slangasek> discussion of some of these has obviously been interleaved
<slangasek> I've been triaging the bugs from #
<slangasek> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=regression-potential
<slangasek> ,
<ScottK> Is there a reason regression-release isn't also tracked here?
<slangasek> but it ends up being fairly time-consuming (though worthwhile) because some of the bugs make it onto that list in a still unclear state
<slangasek> so it would help if individual teams could review the list and pick off some regressions, then I don't need to triage them :)
<slangasek> ScottK: that the focus of the meeting is jaunty development
<heno> sbeattie: can you take point on getting those triaged?
<heno> ask for help from teams or the rest of the QA team as need be
<ScottK> slangasek: If it's a regression from Hardy and still not fixed in Jaunty should it have both tags then?
<sbeattie> heno: yes, I'm doing that as well. as slangasek said, it's time-consuming.
<heno> ok
<slangasek> heno, sbeattie: the most problematic ones are usually the 'undecided' importance ones at the bottom; once they at least have an importance set, I have some indication whether we should consider targeting
<slangasek> ScottK: yes
<ScottK> Thanks.
<slangasek> [TOPIC] ISO size
<MootBot> New Topic:  ISO size
<slangasek> I mentioned the ubuntu-server being oversized on amd64; would be good to have someone from the server team take lead on resolving this, since I don't really have a feel for what's expendable or not there
 * pitti needs to leave now, got a 9.10 planning call now
<slangasek> GNOME has also been creeping back up in size, and we have a FFe request for compiz to add a dep on a new 500K library
<slangasek> pitti: ok, thanks!
<slangasek> so this is costing us some langpacks on the desktop side; clever (and not-too-crazy) ideas for saving some space there are still welcome
<pitti> we might do some more lzma'ing
<cjwatson> there appears to be some installer cruft on the server CD which shouldn't be there but is
<slangasek> do we have a current list of lzma targets?
<cjwatson> things like cdebconf-udeb
<cjwatson> I'll take a look at that, and it should save us several megabytes
<slangasek> calc produced that list last time, it probably needs re-done
<slangasek> cjwatson: great, thanks
<cjwatson> (basically, anything that's already in the installer initrd doesn't need to be duplicated as a udeb)
<slangasek> [ACTION] cjwatson to look at removing unnecessary installer components from ubuntu-server CD
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to look at removing unnecessary installer components from ubuntu-server CD
<cjwatson> annoyingly, I thought I'd already fixed that this cycle
<slangasek> and then of course, we also have oversized DVDs, which we'll have to do something about fairly soon :)
<slangasek> I'll be digging into that this coming week for alpha-6, but suggestions welcome
<slangasek> anyway - a bit over time now, but that's it for the agenda
<ScottK> slangasek: It's python-4suite-xml - Bug #338079 for my action item.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 338079 in python-4suite "[Jaunty] packages incompatible with python 2.6" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/338079
<slangasek> ScottK: ah, thanks
<slangasek> anything else we need to cover?
<slangasek> (I assume not, since nobody is talking over me yet :)
<slangasek> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:35.
<slangasek> thanks, folks!
<robbiew> thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-03-07
<wolter> Hi all
<wolter> I understand the meeting for the people inscribed on the regional boards for memberships is here?
<wolter> Or am I too late?
<wolter> Anybody not afk?
<wolter> Aw... I wanted to be a member so bad.
<wolter> Hi ian_brasil
<wolter> Are you an ubuntu member?
<wolter> merriam,
<Flare183> xq: I'm already here
<xq> slacker
<etank> was the membership meeting last night?
<vorian> etank: yep
<etank> xq: ^^
<etank> xq: looks like it did already happen man
<etank> thanks vorian
<vorian> it's a bit confusing with the UTC
<xq> yeah, skimmed the date
<vorian> we have meetings so late, it's already another day UTC time
<xq> and time, put a GCal entry for tonight (9PM EST)
<xq> then realized the dates didn't match (on the Wiki page) and was like "uh oh"
<xq> and of course the masterful etank was like "That's because it's already passed in UTC time!"
<vorian> sounds like you need to use kontact :P
<xq> or something ;)
<xq> vorian and his KDE.
<vorian> \o/
<xq> KDE is for the birds.
<xq> And vorians.
<xq> I've Evolutioned. ;p
<vorian> no one is perfect, i suppose
<wolter> etank, hey, you applied too?
<xq> wolter: no, i shoved him in here :\
<wolter> Heh.
<wolter> You applied.
<wolter> I know because I saw you in the table =D.
<xq> yea
<wolter> right xq ?
<wolter> hah
<xq> and showed up on the wrong day
<wolter> Have you been accepted yet?
<xq> he did my dirty work for me
<wolter> Yeah, me too :(.
<wolter> etank did
<wolter> ?
<xq> I saw the March 6th and then skimmed for the time and saw the "9PM EST"
<xq> And made it easy on myself and used it for my GCal entry
<xq> But, of course, easy way isn't always the best ;)
<xq> From now on I know always to use -the -link- and use UTC to for *everything*
<wolter> Yeah.
<wolter> Damn UTC.
<wolter> It got me confused too.
<wolter> It should be in GMT I say.
<wolter> I know I am GMT-6.
<xq> Well, I just skimmed and saw the date of March 6th then 9PM EST
<xq> instead of using a time zone converter as I usually do
<xq> But anyway, yeah same here for GMT
<xq> And tomorrow it falls back at 2 AM EST ;) (well, across the U.S. it falls back one hour)
<xq> Or wait, "spring" forward.
<wolter> What falls back, sorry?
<xq> Time in the U.S.
<xq> This weekend
<xq> But it's spring forward/set ahead one hour
<xq> We gain an hour...
<wolter> Oh...
<wolter> Why are you applying for membership, mainly?
<xq> Well, I've been a Linux user since around '94. Started with Slackware, shortly migrated to Debian. Then Ubuntu forever ago. Stated a LoCo a while back (2 years ago?), and would like to get it approved this year.
<xq> I feel like I should be a "member" at least to have an active team. I'm also active in the community andstay active, so feel like I've reached that point.
<xq> Kind of sums it up.
<xq> I'm involved in a lot of open source things and love to help people. Love to give back to the community. This is just another way.
<wolter> Well yeah, but what benefits are you looking forward to?
<wolter> Or is it just being a member, by itself.
<wolter> ?
<xq> Just being a member, I guess, in and of itself.
<xq> I guess having a say in the community council and elections is a perk.
<xq> It also sets a good example within your own community (loCo, for me).
<wolter> Oh.
<wolter> Yeah.
<wolter> Yeah, being a member of ubuntu would be representative of how much you've put into the community.
<wolter> But I want the most my @ubuntu email.
<xq> I see everything that comes with the approval as "perks," I guess. I don't really need them. They're good to have/nice to have, but I have other motiviations (like setting the example for member), or perhaps even just printing a business card with the Ubuntu logo for team purposes.
<xq> I'm into marketing, so maybe it's just how I think. I don't know hehe.
<xq> Never crossed my mind.
<xq> @ubuntu.com would be nice for official reasons :)
<wolter> Yeah...
<wolter> I think it should be handed to non members as well...
<wolter> maybe make a special one, like ubuntu-member
<wolter> For only members.
<wolter> The nice thing is that it is only an email forwarder.
<wolter> So its no big deal for ubuntu. They don't have to handle big storage.
<xq> yeppers
<xq> well, off to bed i go
<xq> good talking with you. have a good night :)
<wolter> u2
<Guest24605> ciao a tutti
<Guest24605> !lista
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about lista
<avraam> hey!
<avraam> anybody is here? ^)
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-03-08
<kees> jdstrand, mdeslaur: \o
<mdeslaur> hola!
<jdstrand> o/
<kees> okidoky
<kees> i'm doing community bits, just came off of triage
<kees> last week was filled with embargoed upstream issues.  no idea why we got like 4 at once, but they're all in process now.
<kees> I'll be probably taking fetchmail and anything else I can find.  the next kernel update is pending, so that will need attention too.
<kees> mdeslaur: you're up!
<mdeslaur> I'm on triage this week
<mdeslaur> and am working on apache2
<mdeslaur> I just published gnome-screensaver
<mdeslaur> and I'll probably pick out something else
<mdeslaur> that's it
<jdstrand> I'll go
 * kees wonders when the g-ss love-in will end
<mdeslaur> hehe
<nxvl> hello
<kees> heya nxvl
<jdstrand> last week I was on community. we published our first UCSN (Ubuntu Community Security Notice). more will need to happen with automation as we move forward
<jdstrand> most of last week was spent on moin for the latest CVEs. I imagine this week will be the same. lots of commits to wade through. I have prelim patches for intrepid and higher
<jdstrand> I've started writing patches for 1.5 (dapper and hardy), since upstream is not interested
<kees> jdstrand: yeah, that looks like quite a giant set of changes.  yay for CSRF
 * jdstrand nods
<jdstrand> the code is quite different between the two, but the fix is easy enough to understand and write-- just need to get the fixes in all the right sports (which is the trick)
<jdstrand> s/the two/1.5 and 1.7/
 * kees nods
<jdstrand> beyond that, I am working on the ff apparmor profile and apparmor abstractions. I should be done with that today so people can be running that for a while
<jdstrand> I also will be on vacation next week and the following monday, so you won't hear from me for a while :)
<kees> yay vacation!
<jdstrand> \o/
<kees> going anywhere fun, or is it a staycation?
<jdstrand> cruise in the carribbean
<kees> niiiice
<jdstrand> caribbean
<jdstrand> yeah, it should be fun. I will not be available on irc though :P
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<kees> set up DNS tunnelling before you go; I bet they have wifi.  ;)
<kees> any other issues for the security team?
<jdstrand> kees: well... I will have a laptop, but I don't want to get pinged ;)
<mdeslaur> yeah, bug #103010
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 103010 in qemu-kvm "qemu no tun/tap networking" [Wishlist,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/103010
<mdeslaur> kirkland would like a statement from the security team
 * kees reads
<kees> I need a lot more information about this bug before I can really say anything useful.
<jdstrand> I would agree
<kees> kirkland: what's involved in setting up a tun/tap thing for kvm?
<jdstrand> I can say that the recommended Ubuntu way to do virtualization is to use libvirt
<kees> i.e. is it possible to have kvm drop the cap after setting it up?
<jdstrand> libvirt handles this on qemu's behelf in multiple ways
<kees> does it give a user arbitrary control over tun/tap devices (i.e. could they disrupt openvpn, etc)
<kirkland> kees: i don't know; haven't tried it
<kirkland> kees: but several people per release ask about this, and vte networking
<kees> vts?
<kees> er
<kees> vte?
<kirkland> kees: fat finger ... vde
<kirkland> libvdeplug2 - Virtual Distributed Ethernet - Plug library
 * kees doesn't know what that is either.  :)  intreseting
<kees> i so cannot type today
 * kirkland either
<jdstrand> the kidsquid.com link is dead
<kees> kirkland: so, the issue is that people are trying to use kvm without running it as root.  is the only issue networking?
<jdstrand> kees: fyi-- qemu has a non-tun/tap way of doing networking as well, but it isn't nearly as useful
<kirkland> kees: i don't know, honestly;  like jdstrand says, we have a recommended way of doing things, and these deviations from the norm are not ones i'm familiar with
<kees> kirkland: what are the recommended configurations?  (is there a list/wiki somewhere?)
<mdeslaur> I don't think it's sane for a regular user without admin privileges to be able to play with networking settings
<kirkland> kees: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KVM/Networking
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: I think it depends on what qemu does. but, my feeling is that more than just creating this device is needed. setting up a tun/tap device with qemu used to require helper scripts, ifconfig, ...
<jdstrand> is it me, or is that page a hodge-podge
<jdstrand> it says KVM, and even has setcap, but then mentions libvirt and xml later
<jdstrand> I thought there was an official page on all of this?
<kees> so, I don't like recommending "cap_net_admin=ep".  I would prefer "cap_net_admin=ei" I think, and have a user with cap_net_admin=i, but I don't know how to set a user's inheritable caps
<kirkland> jdstrand: it's a mess
<kirkland> jdstrand: i cleaned it up some time ago, and it devolves down to a collection of hacks
<jdstrand> kirkland: I thought you did work on the wiki-- but I thought it was somehwere else... the server guide?
<kirkland> jdstrand: it was all in the wiki
<kirkland> jdstrand: i split up the docs for kvm, virsh, virt-manager
<jdstrand> https://help.ubuntu.com/9.10/serverguide/C/virtualization.html
<kirkland> jdstrand: cleaned that up
<kees> ok, here's what I'd like to see:
 * jdstrand wonders if s/KVM/Virtualization/ would be more appropriate for the wiki, since it seems to cover kvm+libvirt
<kees> 1) qemu should drop caps when they're no longer needed
<kees> 2) documentation should be cleaned up a bit
<kees> 3) docs should include a "why" on this -- giving everyone on the system cap_net_admin via qemu is not safe
<kees> 4) bug should stay closed, with a pointer to the docs
<jdstrand> kirkland: I'm thinking people edited KVM/Networking after you...
<kirkland> jdstrand: ack
<kees> The ultimate solution is to ship qemu with cap_net_admin=ei and document how to set a specific user to have cap_net_admin=i
<kirkland> kees: which of those todo's are for me?
<jdstrand> kees: making sure qemu drops it soon...
<kees> kirkland: dunno; just talking out loud so far
<kees> the "1" could probably wait, though perhaps it needs to keep it forever -- I really don't know what it needs to be doing to the tun/tap
<jdstrand> kees: the setcap commenter in the bug I think added the setcap in the wiki, fwiw
<jdstrand> ligouri could speak to that
<jdstrand> (the '1' bit)
<jdstrand> kees: does setcap work on nfs?
<kees> kirkland: can you open a bug for #1, and update the docs for 2,3,4?
<kees> jdstrand: if xattr works on the remote fs, I think so yes.
<jdstrand> I think it would then...
<kees> kirkland: I'm investigating how to do this "correctly", but it kind of requires fscaps support in dpkg, which isn't likely to happen until M.
 * jdstrand was just thinking about the lontime problem of fscaps and filesystems
<kirkland> kees: i can open that bug soon-ish; doc's won't be updated for a good while
<kirkland> kees: probably not until we hit rc, when i hope i get a breath
<kees> kirkland: well, I can take 3 and 4 if you want.  2 isn't really needed, I guess.
<kirkland> kees: sounds good
<kees> kirkland: okay, I've done 3 and 4.
<kees> kirkland: you'll probably want to create a FAQ or something.
<kirkland> kees: thanks, i'll get the other one opened, and get a pointer from anthony
<kees> okay, anything else for the security team?
 * kees takes that as a "no".  meeting done.  :)  thanks everyone!
<mdeslaur> thanks everyone
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-03-09
<amachu> hi
<amachu> persia, elky, lifeless, Hi
<elky> Oh ok!
<persia> Hey
<elky> lifeless: you there?
<lifeless> perhaps s:
<lifeless> :P
<elky> quorum!
<TheMuso> Hey folks,.
<amachu> TheMuso, Hi
<elky> i see no duluu
<amachu> om26er, Hi
<elky> There's an om26er_ though. Shall we start?
<om26er_> amachu, hello
<TheMuso> sure lets go
<amachu> elky, yep
<elky> om26er, please introduce yourself
<om26er_> elky, my name is omer akram I live in pakistan spend most of the time at launchpad I am 19
<elky> om26er_, what do you do on launchpad?
<om26er_> I very much enjoy triaging
<om26er_> elky, triage bugs for empathy, gwibber indicator-* a bit software center etc
<om26er_> Before coming to triaging I used to help people at #ubutnu
<amachu> om26er_, are you part of Ubuntu Pakistan Loco?
<om26er_> amachu, no I just joined the team,
<om26er_> actually people here use computer in english
<amachu> om26er_, just? How long?
<elky> om26er_, there's still things locos can do even in english-using places.
<om26er_> the ubuntu-pk channel only have a few people there
<elky> om26er_, well more now that you're there ;)
<freeflying> hi all
<elky> freeflying, welcome
<freeflying> elky: thx
<elky> lifeless: persia, TheMuso, questions for om26er_?
<TheMuso> no
<lifeless> do you have anyone here to cheer for you?
<persia> om26er_: Your wiki page has no testimonials.  Have you tried to solicit some from fellow triagers?
<om26er_> persia, I am a little shy in that area
<elky> om26er_, i'm sure we could find you a mentor :)
<om26er_> elky, yes I was considering that
<elky> Shall we go to vote, or are there further questions?
<TheMuso> I think +0 for me at this point. You have made a good start, but I would like to see more sustained contributions.
 * persia is ready to vote
<lifeless> om26er_: how long have you been triaging?
<amachu> om26er_, would like to see testimonials, more links to substantiate what has been said, have give +0 this time..
<om26er_> lifeless, three months
<amachu> persia, lifeless ?
<lifeless> so, 200 a month or so
<om26er_> jcastro, can you please have testimonial
<lifeless> +1 from me
<persia> -1 from me.  Most activity is in triaging, but mixed comments in -bugs and no testimonials.
<om26er_> persia, what kind of contribution can a person in a country where people dont mostly use computers
<elky> +0 from me, 3 months is really short these days. I'd like to see you get a mentor for a bit and come back to us.
<om26er_> I cant create a loco here
<persia> om26er_: I'm not looking for a loco.  Bugwork is great.  I'd just like to see support from other people involved in the same area you're working in, especially because I see some negative commentary in the -bugs channel sometimes.
<amachu> om26er_, karma in launchpad is good.. keep up the good work..
<om26er_> thanks all
<amachu> nigelb, Hi
<nigelb> shall I introduce myself?
<amachu> nigelb, sure, go ahead
<nigelb> Hi, I'm Nigel from India.  My contribution to Ubuntu includes participation with Beginners Team, Bug Squad, Ubuntu Community Learning Project, Classroom Team, and User Days Team.
<nigelb> I'm learning to fix bugs and moving towards joining MOTU.  As part of the Bug Squad, I've adopted Rhythmbox package - triaging the bugs and coordinating with upstream.  I also created an apport hook for Rhythmbox for easier triaging.
<nigelb> Recently, I've been thinking of joining the Ubuntu Reviewers to help deal with 2K+ bugs with patches.  I've already started working on a few.
<nigelb> Please see more details of my contributions at my wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NigelBabu
<nigelb> Unfortunately no one to cheer me because most of the people I have worked with for a long time are in US timezone
<nigelb> But, I guess leoquant is here :)
<elky> since we have quorum and then some, I'm going to recuse myself from this vote and provide a testimonial for nigelb instead.
<persia> I'll cheer for nigelb, even though I failed to add a testimonial.
<leoquant> +1 for nigelb
<elky> nigelb, has also been a great encourager of the ubuntu-women team.
<nigelb> thanks elky
<leoquant> great effort/contribution==>ubuntu user days
<nigelb> I didn't mention UW because I wasn't sure if I was doing too much to help there, except help issyl when she wanted help with triaging and of course encouraging :)
<elky> nigelb, mentoring issyl0 is a wonderful help, and so is being encouraging
<nigelb> elky: :)
<persia> nigelb: So, how do you manage to spend so much time on Ubuntu?
<nigelb> persia: I dont spend so much time.  I spend only around 2 hours a day, except when I'm trying to fix a bug and flounder around
<nigelb> most of the time, my laptop is on and connected but I'll be away studying
<persia> Ah, you have achieved the trick of visibility :)
<nigelb> persia: well, from you ;)
<elky> he's lying. i theorise he has an rj45 socket, matrix style.
<nigelb> haha.  I lead a busy life.  I work and study.  In fact I've taken an hour off from work for this meeting
<amachu> i suppose an unanimous +1 for nigelb
<persia> We should vote.
 * lifeless is still looking
<AlanBell> nigelb++
<nigelb> thanks AlanBell :)
<freeflying> njpatel: great job, congrats :)
<lifeless> ok, ready to vote
<freeflying> +1
<TheMuso> +1
<lifeless> +1
<persia> +1
<amachu> +1
 * elky recused.
<amachu> welcome nigelb
<leoquant> yeah, great congrats nigelb \o/
<elky> yay!
<nigelb> amachu: thank you :)
<nigelb> I'm honored :)
<lifeless> dul* isn't here
<amachu> lifeless, yep
<lifeless> elky: meta: 3 months is reasonably sustained IMO - its more than a school holiday kindof thing. Not saying its enough either; just don't think its particularly short.
<elky> seems not. has anyone actually ever laid eyes on him
<elky> lifeless, these days I find it to be short. however it wasnt the only factor, everyone else already said the rest
<lifeless> elky: right, I'm not bothered about the rest :P
<elky> tough :P
<amachu> lifeless, true..
 * persia tends to balance "significant" and "sustained" such that a higher volume of work takes less time (but 2-3 months feels like a minimum)
<czajkowski> .c
<amachu> persia, on the expiry of team?
<persia> amachu: The CC is currently finishing the debate about how we get reelected.  That ought be resolved within a couple weeks.
<lifeless> elky: I don't think we should be moving the goalposts is what I'm saying.
<persia> With luck we'll be able to solicit guidance after the next CC meeting.
<elky> lifeless, did you read the recent emails?
<lifeless> elky: which ones
<amachu> persia, Ok
<elky> btw, my main reason for 0 was that i'd like to see some mentoring
<lifeless> I think the outcome was appropriate
<lifeless> I have /no/ issue with it
<amachu> so we shall meet 22 Mar 10, 10.00 UTC
<amachu> 23 March 10
<elky> lifeless, the threads dholbach has been involved in
<lifeless> I'll be asleep then : I fly in thata morning at 7am.
<dholbach> eh?
<elky> dholbach, the mails between the member-granting councils/boards re membership criteria
<lifeless> elky: if its the thread I think it was, I commented in it
<persia> elky: Do you have a subject for those?  I'm not sure I've read that sort of thing recently.
<elky> persia, clarification: attaining membership
<dholbach> all the feedback I got was massaged into https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership (in December)
<elky> they discussed duration of contribution, so it's not /us/ moving the goalposts as lifeless suggested
<elky> (my only reason for mentioning it)
<persia> Re-reading that thread (sorry for the confusion, I don't consider 3 months ago recent), I'm not sure there was consensus on timing.
<persia> Personally speaking, I don't consider less than two months sufficient, and don't tend to give extra points for > 6 months except under exceptional circumstances.
<elky> persia, well, it was published to the /Membership wikipage
 * elky shrugs
 * persia looks again
<dholbach> and it was no "they" and "us" discussion - all membership boards were in the discussion
<persia> elky: Indeed.  I missed that edit when reviewing the discussion.  I concur.
<dholbach> do you think we should have the discussion about timespan again?
<persia> dholbach: There is no "they" and "us" in Ubuntu generally.
<lifeless> elky: so yes, I provided the wording that is on /Membership in fact
<persia> Anyway, let's move on.  I think we can all agree that the wording at /Membership is correct (or raise that in a wider thread).
<dholbach> so if necessary, I'm happy to participate in another discussion about it - do you need anything else from me? :)
<elky> dholbach, there is an us in this discussion -- the people on this board at this meeting involved in that decision.
<persia> Some of us may be willing to accept some folk with less time, under some conditions.  Complete approval is likely to remain "rare".
<lifeless> gnight
<dholbach> elky: sorry, I probably could have been clearer - I just meant to clarify that all the membership boards plus the CC were in that discussion back then
<amachu> persia, true
<elky> persia, sure.
<elky> dholbach, i'm aware.
<persia> elky: dholbach: Could we agree that "the threads discussed ... and "us" as in this board?
<elky> there's contexts, yes.
 * persia is temporarily annoyed at English overloading the same word to indicate a collection of objects and a connetion of people
<persia> s/nn/ll/
<persia> Do we have anything else?
<amachu> not from my side
<asac> o/
<dyfet> o\
<ogra> meep
<JamieBennett> moo
 * ogra quickly gets a coffee ... missed that
 * asac too
 * persia waits for the wiki page to finish saving
<asac> back i am
 * plars hangs another bag of caffeine on the I.V. and cranks up the drip
<davidm> hello
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 07:02. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * NCommander coughs
<JamieBennett> umm, no action items from last week?
<asac> hi NCommander ;)
 * GrueMaster digs for #2 toothpicks and inserts them under eyelids.
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100309
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100309
<asac> JamieBennett: shoud i add ogras AR?
<asac> i think i saw that in mail ;)
 * JamieBennett didn't see that
<ogra> re
<asac> seems i dreamt that ;)
<asac> ok lets start  i guess :)
 * ogra didnt send it yet ... there was a discussion about logs that kept me from sending it :P
<asac> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile-ubuntu-10.04-beta-1.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile-ubuntu-10.04-beta-1.html
<NCommander> [topic] Standing Items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Standing Items
<asac> ogra: feel free to add to wiki directly ;)
<ogra> will do
<NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, ericm)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, ericm)
<JamieBennett> NCommander: slow down ;)
<ogra> dude
<JamieBennett> Anything to comment on for work items?
<ogra> where are they ?
<asac> so for beta
<asac> besides from office/email ... what can we do for the other specs?
<asac> powermanagement has two bugs somehow
<asac> that stops it from being finished
 * cooloney waves at ogra 
<ogra> (the action items from last meeting i mean)
<asac> ogra: ? are those valid to block this spec?
<asac> NCommander: roll back
<asac> we are at standing items review of beta work itmes ;)
<NCommander> [topic] Beta Work Items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Beta Work Items
<NCommander> There, now we're all on the same page :-)
<cooloney> for fsl-imx51, kernel just applied one patch to fix an subtle kernel oops bug found by jeremy kerr
<JamieBennett> lol
<cooloney> bug #531696
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 531696 in linux-fsl-imx51 "mc13892 LED driver oopses on trigger action" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/531696
<ogra> asac, regulators -> complete FSL patch missing ... not sure we *need* the fix actually ... based on FSL
<cooloney> and i did not get any feedback about one of my patch to fix the bsp building error
<ogra> asac, numbers for idle case -> depends on vendors and we wont do any code changes based on it -> DROP
<cooloney> i think we forward it to fls
<cooloney> fsl
<ogra> asac, what other tiems are you referring to in that spec ?
<ogra> *items
<asac_> ok i had a reconnect :(
<asac_> can someone paste me the scroll back
<asac_> and cross fingers that i stay up now
<JamieBennett> asac_: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/391746/
<ogra> to late
<asac_> sorry folks. please run the meeting not relying on me
<StevenK> Or your ISP
<ogra> asac_, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/391746/
<JamieBennett> :D
<asac> ok cross fingers
 * ogra crosses fingers
<asac> id dint get the paste before either
<JamieBennett> OK, back to work items
<JamieBennett> asac: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/391746/
<ogra> asac, so what items were you referring to in the spec ?
<asac> ok so should those bugs be linked to spec?
<ogra> imho we can set them all to dropped unless something comes from FSL
<asac> or just tracked as bugs?
<asac> imo i would think that feature bugs should be linked
<asac> to specs, but not real bugs
<ogra> which bugs exactly ?
<asac> ok lets unlink them
<asac> hmm wasnt powermanagement spec linked to bugs?
<ogra> yes
<ogra> sadly the spec page gives no overview about the bug status :(
<ogra> i think most of them are fix released
 * NCommander has the action items for this week once ogra releases the wiki page lock
<asac> bug 509006
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 509006 in linux-mvl-dove "[dove] hibernation failed to resume" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/509006
<ogra> i dont do anything on the page
<asac> thats still open
<ogra> NCommander, grab it
<asac> -> unlink
<asac> ?
<ogra> fix rather ?
<ericm_> that's not fixed
<plars> I think GrueMaster said he tested that yesterday, and that it was still broken
<asac> right. my question was if we should make specs for bug tracking
<ogra> well, we'Re in kernel freeze ?
<asac> if we cant close a spec if there are bugs left we can never finalize it for a milestone
<NCommander> action items up
<ericm_> asac, which spec depends on hibernation?
<GrueMaster> I tested both apw's kernel and the latest image.
<ogra> well, then unlink
<asac> if we say: its ok to be behind because we track bugs that come out of specs thats fine
<NCommander> we'll do those once we finish Standing Items
<asac> ericm_: power management
<ogra> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-lucid-arm-per-soc-powermanagement
<GrueMaster> apw's kernel failed, but the latest image worked fine.
<ogra> GrueMaster, did you tell that apw ?
<asac> ok lets move on to another spec ;)
<ericm_> can we just unlink it, as I know hibernation shouldn't block power management
<ericm_> in other aspects
<GrueMaster> yes.  It should be in the irc log.
<asac> lets screw it ... i will approach you individually after the meeting ;)
<ogra> unlinked
<asac> too many reconnects ;)
<asac> ogra: thanks
<JamieBennett> asac: ++
<asac> NCommander: lets go on with standing items
<asac> ;)
<ogra> asac, action items first :)
<asac> right
<asac> those were not there when i last looked ;)
<ogra> whoops ... i didnt do mine :(
<ogra> asac, our chair is slacking :)
<NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, ericm)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, ericm)
<ogra> NCommander, action items please
<NCommander> [topic] Action Item review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action Item review
<NCommander> [topic] asac to talk to team about training session
<MootBot> New Topic:  asac to talk to team about training session
<asac> i started to write on alpha-3 stuff ... i think -efl bugs are not yet done
 * NCommander was dealing with a very persistant cat
<asac> NCommander: i lost context on training session ;)
<ogra> we did one
<ogra> that was the thumb2 session
<asac> that was about the thumb2?
<ogra> yup
<asac> yeah then that was done two weeks ago ;)
<ogra> so strike
<JamieBennett> asac: (these action items are from 2 weeks ago)
<NCommander> [topic] asac and JamieBennett to triage netbook-launcher-efl bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  asac and JamieBennett to triage netbook-launcher-efl bugs
<asac> keep bloggin and -efl bugs
<asac> cf
<NCommander> asac: cf?
<JamieBennett> carry forward
<asac> carry forward
<ogra> carry forward
 * NCommander hears an echo
<ogra> or creepy fish
<asac> no need to make topics for each of the items ;)
<asac> but go ahead
<NCommander> [topic] ogra to file a bug on LP not tracking bug links to blueprints or sending emails
<MootBot> New Topic:  ogra to file a bug on LP not tracking bug links to blueprints or sending emails
<ogra> co
<NCommander> [topic] NCommander to investigate KDE FTBFS issues
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to investigate KDE FTBFS issues
<NCommander> tuxdavis took this one over, and found the kdebindings crash
<asac> the fix you mean?
<ogra> yeah, seems its fixed
<NCommander> s/crash/fix
<asac> right. last i looked there were not so many issues
<ogra> its not on the ftbfs list since some days
<asac> kdeedu was still unhappy
<NCommander> I'll look at it sometime this week
<NCommander> so I guess c/o on this one too
<NCommander> [topic] GrueMaster to produce a daily report on image testing and add that to the weekly meeting page
<MootBot> New Topic:  GrueMaster to produce a daily report on image testing and add that to the weekly meeting page
<GrueMaster> WIP
<NCommander> co?
<ogra> are you adding it atm ?
<GrueMaster> Started this week
<asac> thats fixed also
<asac> right GrueMaster and me discussed this and its moving ;)
<asac> i dont think we need to carry that forward
<NCommander> [topic] everyone to try rootstock GUI once its in the archive
<MootBot> New Topic:  everyone to try rootstock GUI once its in the archive
 * ogra had feedback from asac so far on rootstock ui testing
<asac> we will see that when checking it
<asac> i tested it quite a bit
<asac> though not to full image ;)
<ogra> the rest of the team are slackers !
<asac> because of the qemu hangs
<ogra> right
<ogra> i'm hoping the recent upload changes something in qemu
<asac> is that fixed now ?
<ogra> no
<asac> hmm so the new image format didnt help?
<ogra> and i cant test until glib is built and promoted
<plars> I was told by ogra to wait for his fix :)
<Riddell> on the KDE compile failure tuxdavis concluded its a fault in the toolchain causing the segfault.  kdebindings, kdeedu and other non kde packages are affected.  I've worked out it in kdebindings by not compiling smoke on ARM
<ogra> nope, but there was a fix for disk IO tonight
<asac> ogra: you should really make alocal mirror out of a apt-cache
<ogra> plars, you can test minimal images once glib is there
<asac> Riddell: thanks!
<asac> Riddell: is that ok?
<asac> or a bad hack=?
<ogra> sadly glib breaks debootstrap atm
<ogra> (we now pull glib into minimal builds since recently )
<StevenK> Argh
<NCommander> ew
 * ogra waits whan gtk will enter too
 * StevenK didn't want to hear that bit
<StevenK> I just ate, damn it
<asac> hmm glib in minimal? what is pulling that?
<ogra> send flowers to plymouth :)
 * NCommander seconds StevenK's emotion
<asac> oh
<asac> ok
<persia> !ohmy
<ubottu> Please remember that all Ubuntu IRC channels share the same attitude of providing friendly and polite interaction with all users of all ages and cultures. Basically, this means no foul language and no abuse towards others.
<asac> ok lets move on
<asac> summary: qemu is in bad state still :/ no idea whats going on
<ogra> right
<NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, ericm)â©
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, ericm))
<Riddell> asac: it'll do for kdebindings but the problem is likely to reappear elsewhere
<ogra> well, i have a better idea
<asac> ogra: please try the file writing/reading loop
<asac> ;)
<cooloney> right,
<asac> in a qemu to check if its reproducible by that
<cooloney> it is our turn?
<ogra> asac, next aftzer stracing apt
<asac> cooloney: go ahead
<cooloney> for fsl-imx51, kernel just applied one patch to fix an subtle kernel oops bug found by jeremy kerr
<cooloney> bug #531696
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 531696 in linux-fsl-imx51 "mc13892 LED driver oopses on trigger action" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/531696
<cooloney> i think i sent this patch to ogra
<ogra> yeah, i need to forward it to paul still
<cooloney> it should be included in fsl's bsp
<ogra> wil do that before the call today
<cooloney> ogra: ok, thanks
<cooloney> and how about the regulator issue?
<ogra> given that next BSP is only plannae dfor end of may its not that urgent i think ...
<asac> ok so that patch came from fsl?
<ogra> cooloney, last call was skipped
<ogra> i'll bring it up today
<asac> ok
<cooloney> ogra: right, understand
<asac> whats the status on regulators?
<ogra> FSL is definately aware
<ogra> we had enough mails on that
<asac> still missing a patch?
<cooloney> yeah
<ogra> a part of the patch is missing
<asac> right. lets bring it up today
<ogra> right
<ogra> thats the plan
<cooloney> right, i just got one patch will will break our kernel
 * ogra would still looooove to see a fix for bug 457878
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 457878 in linux-fsl-imx51 "imx51 on board ethernet plug/unplug events not detected" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/457878
<cooloney> and i also sent out a patch to fix the building error before
<asac> [ACTION] ogra and asac raise regulator patch issue again with fsl
<NCommander> +1 ogra
<cooloney> is that any feedback
<NCommander> [ACTION] ogra and asac raise regulator patch issue again with fsl
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra and asac raise regulator patch issue again with fsl
<ogra> but i'm not having high hopes
<cooloney> ogra:  i am working on that
<asac> cooloney: do you have any idea?
 * ogra humps cooloney's leg
<cooloney> and is preparing a patch to add phylib support into fec.c
<asac> or waiting on fsl input?
<cooloney> becuase the upstream also like to see that
<ogra> asac, we know whats wrong, its just a hell lot of work
<cooloney> yeah,
<cooloney> but if we switched to generic phylib
<cooloney> it is better for every one who use fec.c
<ogra> and FSL just didnt do it yet
 * ericm_ wonders why fec.c still hasn't been linked with phylib
<cooloney> ericm_: no idea
<ogra> ericm_, especially since that bug is known since jaunty
 * persia doesn't press the ohmy button again, as it's too soon, but ...
<asac> ok. if there is info you need from fsl to work on this let us know offline
<cooloney> asac: no problem
<asac> anything else on imx51?
<ogra> persia, what for would you pressi it ?
<cooloney> oh, we found necessary patches for kexec
<asac> interesting. how intrusive are those?
<cooloney> but still need finalize
<asac> ok. is there a place to track that ?
<ogra> asac, they are in already as i understood
<ogra> (kexec patches)
<ericm_> cooloney, what's there still need finanlize?
<cooloney> back ported 5 patches to add kexec supporting for our armv7
<cooloney> ericm_: we still need patch kexec-tools
<ogra> oh from .32 to .31
<cooloney> or just kexec vmlinux
<cooloney> need a solution
<ogra> note that its fine to have but we wont do anything for lucid with kexec
<asac> when is the deadline for getting this in?
<cooloney> ogra: no, backport from .33 to .32 and .31
<ogra> we will do a lot with it in L+1 if its there though
<cooloney> so versatile, dove and imx51 can support that
<persia> Cool!
<ogra> since NCommander  will revive softbootloader then
<ericm_> cooloney, ah right - we might need an updated kexec-tools
<ogra> so dont put kexec on higher prio than the other bugs please
<NCommander> ogra: I already had managed to get softbootloader working on dove partially weeks ago. I shelved the work this cycle after talking with asac
<cooloney> and i think ericm_ already pushed the kexec to lucid
<asac> i agree with ogra, lets not drop other stuff for kexec
<cooloney> i will do that later
<asac> ok
<ogra> they RC bugs are more important
<asac> cooloney: when is the last upload deadline?
<ericm_> 11th is the deadline for kernel freeze
<ogra> i think that was today
<ogra> or yesterday
<cooloney> ericm_: right, thanks
<ogra> apw said 8th
<ogra> to get everything ready before freeze
<ericm_> oh, I'm lucky then send him the git pull yesterday
<asac> ok so on imx51 we wait for regular patch, work on carrier detect for fec and look into kexec backports
<asac> anything else?
<ogra> (for packaging and testing etc)
<cooloney> so i need to do that soon,
<cooloney> at least for kexec patches
<asac> regulator
<cooloney> asac: good summary
<cooloney> right
<asac> ok ericm_ ;) ... your turn!
<ericm_> cooloney, right - we might want to get the basic stuffs in - anything broken can be fixed later
<cooloney> ericm_: exactly
<apw> freeze is thursday ... to get things up and built before then i 'closed' yesterday
<ericm_> ok, Marvell made another drop of patchset this week, and I was able to get them in in the git-pull to apw yesterday
<apw> is there something i am missing whcih is needed for freeze
<ericm_> basically, there will be three parts of changes
<cooloney> apw: so i missed that
<ogra> apw, yeah, we decided to switch FSL to .33 :P
 * apw dies
 * ogra hides
<plars> heh
<ericm_> kexec + basic Android support (not necessarily turned on in our kernel but to keep our code as close as possible to theirs)
<asac> apw: nothing planned, but you never know ;)
<ericm_> + BMM (a block memory management for physically contiguous memory allocation for their GPU/VPU acceleration)
<asac> ericm_: basic android support? what size is that patch?
<ericm_> and turning off OABI_COMPAT as discussed
<asac> right. thanks for that
<asac> ;)
<ericm_> asac, it's a series of patches
<ericm_> asac, but we didn't turn on any Android related options - so to keep the impact to minimized
<asac> ericm_: right. wonder what size are those patches?
<asac> whats the topic? powermanagement?
<ericm_> asac, it's not much, lemme check
<ericm_> asac, < 1M, oh my
<asac> ok
<asac> lets take that offline
<asac> any important issues outstanding for dove?
<asac> what about bug 528524: pulseaudio "Sound not working in all apps on dove"
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 528524 in totem "Sound not working in all apps on dove" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/528524
 * ogra saw something similar for imx51 today ? 
<asac> plars: is it really a regression compared to x86?
<ericm_> mmm.. and mplayer crashes in sound as well - Marvell is working on this
<asac> ok so thats still on the radar?
<GrueMaster> Yes.  But it may be driver related.
<plars> asac: it seems specific to that board
<asac> ok good
<plars> asac: but we have another similar (but different) pulseaudio issue on imx51
<asac> let me add the kernel package
<asac> just in case
<ogra> Bug 534815
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 534815 in pulseaudio "imx51 some audio files play, others do not" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/534815
<asac> ericm_: do you know where they want to fix it? in kernel?
<asac> ogra: some audio files? e.g. codecs?
<asac> or apps?
<ericm_> asac, the crash looks like a kernel bug, so yes - most likely
<ogra> asac, no idea, not my bug
<plars> ogra: right
<plars> I spent a good deal of time looking at that one yesterday
<GrueMaster> the mplayer crash on dove is definitely kernel related.  mplayer segfaults when opening the audio device.
<asac> plars: so on imx51 all apps play sound ... just some codec/format/frequency doesnt work well?
<asac> GrueMaster: ok thanks. so the dove thing is kernelish ... done.
<cooloney> ogra: never looked at that bug before
<plars> asac: actually that seems to be the case on both boards, but the sampling rates at which they will play is different
<asac> hmm
<ogra> cooloney, reported 11h ago :)
<ogra> cooloney, nobody expected you to look yet :)
<asac> interesting bug. we should keep that on the radar
<ogra> ++
<asac> targetted for lucid
<cooloney> ogra: oh, thanks,
<asac> ok anthing else for dove?
<ericm_> asac, nope
<asac> lets move on ;)
<asac> NCommander: ^
<NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster, plars)
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster, plars)
<GrueMaster> Image builds continue to be hit and miss.  Currently, 3/7 is the last image built.
<GrueMaster> Tested hibernate multiple times on Dove with latest available image, no issues to report.
<GrueMaster> Tested image install on Babbage 3, no immediate issues seen during imaging.  Sound still appears to be an issue.  System sounds are ok, but no playback from alsa tools.
<GrueMaster> That's all from yesterday.
<plars> Looks like the suspend/resume tests may go into checkbox main, but I have some things to fix/cleanup on it based on a review I got back from Marc yesterday, so I'll be taking a look at that this week
<ogra> how about test kernels (which are due to be uploaded today)
<GrueMaster> I need to backtrack and put some notes together for last week.
<ogra> if you get such things it would make sense to add them to the report
<GrueMaster> ok
<asac> GrueMaster: today we had no image?
<GrueMaster> Nope.
<asac> what is currently out of sync?
<ogra> asac, see the page :)
<ogra> i reported it
<ogra> under image status
<asac> kk
<asac> ok thanks plars and GrueMaster
<asac> plars: will check with you on the final work items of suspend resume
<asac> offline ;)
<plars> sounds good
<asac> ok next
<asac> NCommander: ^^
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Application status (JamieBennett, dyfet)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Application status (JamieBennett, dyfet)
<GrueMaster> I also spent a good chunk of Sunday trying to get likewise working.  First order is to get it working on x86.  Still no luck, even with the help of a Windows guru.
<JamieBennett> Looking OK, netbook-launcher-efl has a few bugs but nothing out of the ordinary
<asac> GrueMaster: do you have a win server for likewise testing?
<ogra> GrueMaster, thats been moved to the server team last week
<GrueMaster> yes
<asac> ok cool. i dont think its high priority though
<ogra> GrueMaster, please coordinate with them and comment on the bug if you test it
<GrueMaster> Does the server team have access to arm?
<asac> what we want to tes tis whether it doesnt crash ;)
<asac> GrueMaster: we can run the tests for them if they make a proper server setup available with instructions how to setup the client
<asac> ;)
<ogra> GrueMaster, we offered them help so if you have a setup that would be good
<asac> so we dont need to fiddle until x86 works first
<GrueMaster> ok
<ogra> but let them know and ask what they need
<GrueMaster> Client side is easy.  Getting an NT server going is hard.
<asac> [ACTION] ogra to check with ttx on what server team needs to help likewise testing on arm
<ogra> NCommander, ^^
<NCommander> [topic]
<MootBot> New Topic:
<NCommander> er
<ogra> heh
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
<NCommander> C&P fail
<ogra> err
<asac> libplist -> i have that fixed for armel
<NCommander> [ACTION] ogra to check with ttx on what server team needs to help likewise testing on arm
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra to check with ttx on what server team needs to help likewise testing on arm
<ogra> [ACTION] ogra to check with ttx on what server team needs to help likewise testing on arm
<ogra> thanks
<asac> squid i havent done yet
<ogra> asac, oh, dyfet wanted to look at squid and libpt
<ogra> err libplist
<asac> i did plist over the weekend
<asac> i can keep it private ;)
<ogra> right, dyfet whats the status for squid then ?
<asac> anyway, there are plenty of ftbfs so fix
<asac> libpst
<asac> iirc
<ogra> right, last week there were only these two pressing
<dyfet> ogra: sorry, missed squid...
<asac> libgtk2-perl and libpst
<asac> dyfet: can you work on one of these today?
<asac> and squid ;)
<dyfet> asac: yes, I can
<asac> libtommath libtunepimp and ossp-uuid
<ogra> great
<asac> also look like worthwhile candidates
<asac> ok lets move on
<GrueMaster> Not sure if it is helpful (and I don't have all the details), but apparently there is a fix for gcc for the -fPic issue.
<asac> i think the image status is quite well documented on the wiki
<asac> i dont have questions. anyone?
<GrueMaster> upstream in svn.
<asac> GrueMaster: which -fPIC issue?
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, persia)â©
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, persia))
<ogra> GrueMaster, talk to doko ?
<asac> 4:57 < asac> i think the image status is quite well documented on the wiki
<asac> 14:57 < asac> i dont have questions. anyone?
 * ogra doesnt :P
 * StevenK neither
<NCommander> [topic] Any Other Business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
<persia> We only currently have server images, but expect to have Ubuntu netbook ones tomorrow.
 * ogra wonmders how server could build
<StevenK> No glib gets dragged in
<ogra> if basic debootstrapping doesnt work
<ogra> weird
<StevenK> ogra: Ah, because the server is alternate
<ogra> server uses plymouth
<asac> yeah. alternate probably does the trick
<asac> do we still produce them?
<ogra> server
<StevenK> It would fail to install, but it would still build
<StevenK> asac: Yes
<ogra> yeah, right
<ogra> anyway, we'Re at AOB ...
<ogra> did anyone have an idea for gSoC
<ogra> or do we have intrested students attending that would like to run a gSoC project ?
<ogra> (and look for a mentor in the mobile/arm area)
<asac> porting the rest of thumb2 ;)
 * ogra was pondering to put rootstock up for gSoC
<ogra> asac, that doesnt fit the timeframe :)
<ogra> gSoC will be L+1
<asac> 3 month? full time ;)?
<asac> ogra: universe will have plenty of stuff left
<GrueMaster> Too bad it is restricted to current students.  I have someone that would be interested otherwise, but won't be going to college until fall.
<ogra> GrueMaster, i'm not sure its restricted that closely
<StevenK> Neither
<GrueMaster> It is, we checked.
<ogra> probably its enough to prove that you are starting to study soon
<ogra> gah
<asac> i think a "flexible image building" project would be helpful ... or softbootloader maybe
<GrueMaster> Need to be enrolled.
<ogra> elasitc images, heh
<GrueMaster> Does that mean they bounce back after a hard crash?
<ogra> yeah !
<asac> ok
<ogra> well, doesnt look like we have anything concrete yet
<asac> so one more thing: next week part of the team will be in london for training
<asac> so probably out of office from mon to wed
<ogra> yeah
<asac> i think persia likes the idea to write meeting minutes ;)
<asac> or someone else :)
<asac> out of office will be asac, jamie and ogra
<persia> I think them to have been written.  I'll write them if nobody else does, but it's easier to write when people stay on topic.
<persia> s/think/like/
 * persia doesn't really like writing minutes in the middle of the night
<asac> persia: for today? i mean next week when we are in london ;)
<asac> ok. i think thats it ;)
<persia> Oh that's fine.  Have fun :)
<asac> lets go back working/sleeping ;)
<ogra> zzzzZZZZ
<asac> whatever is appropriate for the timezone you are in ;)
<ogra> damned
 * ogra had hopes
 * persia hopes the chair will exercise the MootBot command soon
 * StevenK too
<asac> NCommander: ^^ #endmeeting please, sir
 * ogra thinks the chair is not looking
<ogra> NCommander, E N D M E E T I N G !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 08:09.
<ogra> heh
 * GrueMaster pinged his cell.
<ogra> hahaha
 * NCommander isn't quite here this morning :-/
<GrueMaster> And that is different from other days because...
<kees> \o
<cjwatson> hi
<pitti> o/
<kees> heya pitti.  you, cjwatson, and myself so far.
<Keybuk> I'm here
<kees> and Keybuk!  :)
<cjwatson> mdz: here?
 * cjwatson pokes sabdfl
<cjwatson> ok, so just awaiting mdz
<cjwatson> Keybuk: you're the chair, why am I doing this? :-)
<sabdfl> mdz is on holiday
<cjwatson> ok
<Keybuk> cjwatson: I can't be the chair, again nobody has told me that I am
<kees> Keybuk: you don't read the meeting minutes?  :)
<persia> It was in the -devel-announce mail
<Keybuk> kees: I am so far behind with my e-mail, I'm close to bankrupcy
<kees> Keybuk: heh
<pitti> so, looks like https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda isn't current, right?
 * pitti tries to find what should be there
<sabdfl> i'll chair
<persia> Why isn't it current?  Lots from last meeting, but that ran out of time.
<kees> pitti: it should be current; I removed all the stuff from last time.
<cjwatson> thanks
<pitti> ah, ok
<sabdfl> what's the magic incantation to start the mootbot?
<pitti> I thought the sponsoring merge was by and large done and discussed
<cjwatson> "#startmeeting"
<dholbach> the sponsors item can be dropped from it
<persia> dholbach: Thanks.
<dholbach> it's blocked on an RT ticket
<cjwatson> dholbach: it hasn't been implemented yet; is that on your queue?
<cjwatson> ah
<cjwatson> that RT ticket is done
<dholbach> it's on my queue, yes
<Keybuk> (sorry to be a pain, but I'm so behind on everything at the moment, that I'd spend half the chair time trying to find things)
<dholbach> cjwatson: 37728 isn't afaics
<cjwatson> oh, sorry, I'm thinking of a different RT ticket.  you mean https://rt.admin.canonical.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=37728
<cjwatson> I was thinking of the -reviews one
<sabdfl> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:12. The chair is sabdfl.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<dholbach> cjwatson: thanks - I'll see that I can find somebody to look into it
<sabdfl> [TOPIC] Archive reorganisation (standing item; ColinWatson)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Archive reorganisation (standing item; ColinWatson)
<sabdfl> DanielHolbach: merge ubuntu-universe-sponsors and ubuntu-main-sponsors (Discussion)
<sabdfl> dholbach: status?
<cjwatson> dholbach: is there anything else you want to push forward here other than the -sponsors merge?
<cjwatson> sabdfl: see above :-)
<dholbach> sabdfl: waiting on https://rt.admin.canonical.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=37728
<dholbach> the rest will be pretty straight-forward
 * persia makes a pro-forma statement about how this shouldn't need TB action
<sabdfl> ok
<dholbach> it can be moved off the agenda
<cjwatson> persia: ?
<sabdfl> emmet hikory mailed about developer permissions, ubuntu membership, and the web of interlinked teams they represent
<persia> cjwatson: That merging the sponsors queue shouldn't require TB approval.  I wrote a longer mail about it.
<cjwatson> oh right
<persia> It doesn't matter, because it's getting done (and all support it)
<sabdfl> persia: are you clearer now about the requirements?
<persia> sabdfl: I'm clear about the requirements.  I need to think I bit about infographics and documentation, and I'll send a new proposal.
<sabdfl> okdokey
<cjwatson> sabdfl: one moment
<cjwatson> sabdfl: I'd like to enquire about your statement "the ability to participate as a developer before fully qualifying for membership"
<cjwatson> sabdfl: by that, do you mean a contributor whose changes are reviewed, rather than somebody with upload permissions?
<cjwatson> or do you mean somebody with upload permissions?
<sabdfl> per-package upload permissions should not depend on having made a significant and sustained contribution to ubuntu, they should depend on one's credible skills to do that work
<sabdfl> i want to decouple the allocation of membership to the allocation of permissions
<sabdfl> it would be up to teams how they handled that
<cjwatson> Hmm.  I have a disagreement with that lurking around somewhere, but I can hold it off until I figure out how to articulate it :-)
<sabdfl> okdokey
<persia> We may need to change how we handle those to meet that requirement.  Our current model expects both credibility and significant&sustained (and considers those folk polity for TB&DMB selection)
<sabdfl> as I see it, there will be several ways to participate in development:
<geser> sabdfl: so you would give someone PPU permission to a person that doesn't qualify for membership?
<sabdfl>  - proposed merges to relevant branches
<sabdfl>  - commit to relevant branches
<sabdfl>  - upload to a package, or package set
<sabdfl>  - join one of the generalist upload teams (core, motu)
<sabdfl> geser: yes
<pitti> an example for this would be a DD who wants to upload his packages to Ubuntu as well
<sabdfl> consider a DD, who is perfectly competent to manage... yes
<pitti> I have no strong opinion whether we'd require membership before approving PPU
<persia> So we'd drop the expectation that that DD had shown activity in Ubuntu for some time, to meet the significant&sustained guideline?
<sabdfl> of course, people do need to *understand* certain things about our development process
<sabdfl> persia: yes
<pitti> but it would feel a bit sad to reject the courtesy
<sabdfl> we don't want people who will break freezes or policy
<sabdfl> pitti: if you mean, we should take the opportunity to collaborate immediately, and not wait for someone to demonstrate a deep commitment to ubuntu specifically rather than the quality of the package, i agree
 * persia thinks it takes a full cycle to learn freezes and policy, and that anyone continuing to do stuff actively that long tends to qualify for significant&sustained
<sabdfl> i think folks' enjoyment and appreciation for ubuntu will grow from there
<pitti> OTOH we don't really expect ubuntu members to understand our freeze policy either?
<sabdfl> anyhow - TB is responsible for developer guidelines and permissions, CC for membership and governance
<persia> I'll write something up based on the guidelines, and CC+TB can discuss in that mail thread.
<sabdfl> in this intersection, i'm comfortable taking this path. TB and it's delegated decision makers (the leaders of various teams responsible for package sets) get to structure permissions to get the most efficient participation and quality
<sabdfl> persia: a picture would be worth well north of 1000 words in this case :-)
<sabdfl> any other comments on archive-reorg?
<persia> sabdfl: I've been working with an artist, so I'll attach a graphic as well next time.
<sabdfl> ok, next
<sabdfl> [TOPIC] https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/UpdatesPolicy upstream is http://techbase.kde.org/Policies/Minor_Point_Release_Policy/Draft
<MootBot> New Topic:  https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/UpdatesPolicy upstream is http://techbase.kde.org/Policies/Minor_Point_Release_Policy/Draft
<Riddell> still no change upstram I'm afraid
<cjwatson> are we pushing, or waiting?
<Riddell> it mostly needs me to tidy it up and get agreement
<cjwatson> let's move on then
<sabdfl> Riddell: this looks good, can i ask what the blocker is upstream?
<Riddell> sabdfl: I just need to find time to answer some people's queries and make the changes they suggested
<sabdfl> was the idea put forward by them, or us?
<Riddell> by me
<sabdfl> in general, i think it's brilliant to sync on SRU policies, and do a mutual commitment: they do good updates, we ship 'em
<Riddell> upstream has an unwritten policy and it seems to make sense to get that written down
<sabdfl> ok, sounds good
<sabdfl> [TOPIC] Units policy - Check up on feedback from Debian TC
<MootBot> New Topic:  Units policy - Check up on feedback from Debian TC
<kees> nothing new here
<kees> bdale sent it on, but it hasn't gotten any traction.
<sabdfl> [ACTION] Riddell to get agreement with KDE on point release criteria
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Riddell to get agreement with KDE on point release criteria
<sabdfl> (i think that will be recorded in the wrong topic, sorry)
<sabdfl> is there anything we can do to catalyse the discussion?
<kees> i think we need to just move forward with the policy on our end.
<sabdfl> file bugs?
<sabdfl> +1 to moving forward
<cjwatson> I believe we agreed to move on if we didn't get feedback within a few weeks
<kees> I think if we tracked the Debian bugs (and obviously our fixes) on the Units wiki page, we'd have something to show Debian if they ask about our status/progress.
<sabdfl> why do we always end up doing the work on both sides?
<cjwatson> we don't
<cjwatson> this is just perception bias
<pitti> Keybuk: is the policy as it is okay for you? I thought you had an objection against the "add --si option to CLI programs" part?
<cjwatson> we do end up doing more work for things we care about and other folks don't, but that's sort of natural :)
<Keybuk> pitti: I do, but I've given up with it
<sabdfl> let's just tag the bugs a particular way, and put a link in the wiki
<sabdfl> ok, quick poll
<pitti> current https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UnitsPolicy looks great to me
<kees> yeah, I'm good with it
<sabdfl> [VOTE] Ubuntu will move forward on the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UnitsPolicy and track bugs with a tag so Debian can find and follow them quickly
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Ubuntu will move forward on the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UnitsPolicy and track bugs with a tag so Debian can find and follow them quickly.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<pitti> I'd perhaps add a third "file size" possibility to just show base-10
<kees> +1
<sabdfl> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from sabdfl. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<MootBot> +1 received from kees. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<pitti> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pitti. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<cjwatson> +0 - I don't like the "must" in there for command-line applications any more than Keybuk does, but we can always revise in the future and I don't want to get in the way of the desktop work
<MootBot> Abstention received from cjwatson. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
<cjwatson> (tracking bugs with a tag seems obviously sane)
<Keybuk> -1 still
<MootBot> -1 received from Keybuk. 3 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
<cjwatson> whose votes would change in what way if we changed must -> may?
<sabdfl> mdz is away, i can't see any more expected votes
<cjwatson> under "Exception"
<pitti> cjwatson: +1.1 from me :)
<kees> heh
<pitti> (but oh well, ls, du, df, etc. already have that)
<cjwatson> I would rather have consensus if we can achieve it
<sabdfl> me too
<pitti> but so far we just voted about "move forward without waiting on debian"
<sabdfl> Keybuk: what would it take for you to support the proposal?
<sabdfl> is there an estimate in the proposal of how long the string is, for main?
<pitti> "the string"?
<sabdfl> and is there a "core subset" that would represent the main, meaningful, useful set
<sabdfl> pitti: how much work it is to be done
<Keybuk> sabdfl: I don't really like most of it, but since it's clear the rest of the board are happy, it's not worth me holding it up
<cjwatson> I don't think anyone has attempted to work out how many packages are involved
 * sabdfl thinks that this could gain momentum if we commit to it
<pitti> I don't think we should drop everything to comb the archive for violations of that, but we should encourage testers to file appropriately tagged bugs, so that we can start pointing ot the policy in upstream bug reports, etc.
<sabdfl> the policy is as rational as one could expect
<sabdfl> we could socialise it with GNU, for example
<pitti> there is a long discussion in an upstream glib report, for example
<sabdfl> does it reference our wiki page?
<pitti> not yet (since it's not official yet)
<sabdfl> or is there a similar, canonical as it were, policy :-)
<pitti> but the arguments of the various ML discussions
<pitti> If we (as "Ubuntu") would just go ahead and change it, it might be a bit more convincing
<cjwatson> I would be surprised if GNU followed a marketing standard (disk sizes as advertised by hard disk manufacturers) over a prior technical standard
<cjwatson> personally
<cjwatson> it's not their style
<sabdfl> i would prefer that we follow GNU, if they develop a policy, than get into a standoff
<cjwatson> they might be persuaded to use consistent terms for each of the units
<cjwatson> most of the GNU packages concerned fall under the "Exception" section, though
<sabdfl> i don't know that it's fair to call it a  "marketing standard", though, since it's consistent and rigorous, isn't it?
<cjwatson> it's a standard initiated by hard disk manufacturers wishing to make their disks sound larger
<cjwatson> I think it's an entirely fair name :)
<cjwatson> I don't know the history on network bandwidth so am not qualified to comment there
<pitti> I never ever saw base-2 units in networking
<persia> My (dredged) memory on that is that it was related to 1bit/cycle in early wire protocols, so 1MHz ~ 1Mbit
<cjwatson> this is not me saying that we shouldn't pick standard units for these things in desktop-visible parts of Ubuntu, just saying that there is no point being overly hopeful
<pitti> starting from my old 33.6 kBaud modem up to 100Mbit ethenet
<pitti> we could at least fix nautilus
<cjwatson> I'm happy with the policy with the exception that I think it's a waste of time to declare a "must" for a bunch of shell scripts that output file sizes :)
<cjwatson> or whatever
<cjwatson> hence my query above about a modification
<pitti> it's currently a bit ridiculous to have the computer place show an "80 GB disk" and then you open it and see a 76.32whatnot GB volume
<cjwatson> agreed
<pitti> cjwatson: s/must/may/ sounds good to me
<pitti> I also propose to add a third and preferred file size possibility to just show base-10
<pitti> adding options everywhere doesn't seem practical nor desirable to me
<cjwatson> I think I agree with you
<kees> persia: yeah, it's from baud, which was always base-10.
<pitti> Keybuk: with above two changes, would you feel better about it?
<Keybuk> it wouldn't be as bad yeah
 * pitti edits page
<pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UnitsPolicy?action=diff&rev2=21&rev1=20
<pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UnitsPolicy?action=diff&rev2=22&rev1=21
<pitti> sabdfl: hm, so maybe we should vote about the actual policy here, now that we decided to unblock on Debian?
<sabdfl> cjwatson: if we say MAY then it's NOTABUG
<cjwatson> sabdfl: yup
<sabdfl> if we say MUST, then it's a low importance bug
<cjwatson> *blink*
<pitti> sabdfl: well, it could be a wishlist bug
<cjwatson> if we want it to be a bug but low-importance, that's "should"
<cjwatson> "must" to me denotes an assertion failure
<sabdfl> I'd prefer that we adopt a policy that says MUST, but say that the bugs can be low importance
<sabdfl> ok, i'd be happier with SHOULD then
<cjwatson> in many cases I think this change would be actively undesirable
<cjwatson> it is better to leave small programs robust and simple than to add complexity to them, in many cases
<cjwatson> hence why I think MUST would be a bug in the policy
<sabdfl> i would be happy for the policy to say that, too
 * pitti would go with MAY, start fixing GUIs first, and then perhaps adjusting it later on
<pitti> i. e. start small
<sabdfl> ok, so it's more an attempt to harmonise, than a standard
<sabdfl> ok, that's fine, i'd +1 that
<cjwatson> harmonising the GUI is a lot more important than the rest of it, I think
<sabdfl> how do i finish the existing vote?
<sabdfl> [/VOTE]
<sabdfl> nup
<cjwatson> [ENDVOTE] or #endvote, I can never remember which
<geser> "#endvote" or "[ENDVOTE]"
<sabdfl> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 1 against. 1 abstained. Total: 2
<cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScribesTeam/MootBot
<Keybuk> "/msg #irc-ops please k-line mootbot" works, I find :p
<sabdfl> [VOTE] Ubuntu will adopt https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UnitsPolicy
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Ubuntu will adopt https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UnitsPolicy.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<sabdfl> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from sabdfl. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<pitti> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pitti. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<Keybuk> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Keybuk. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<cjwatson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<Keybuk> (on the basis the policy currently says "may")
<pitti> ^ it does now
<pitti> kees?
<kees> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from kees. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<pitti> sabdfl: looks unanimous :)
<sabdfl> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<sabdfl> phew
<sabdfl> thanks all
<sabdfl> motion carried
 * pitti removes the "draft"
<sabdfl> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bugs?field.assignee=techboard
<sabdfl> only the one, about my position
<sabdfl> dholbach, what's the url for the leadership-appointment page, which mentions this?
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil/RestaffingProposal
<dholbach> sabdfl: I hope that's the one you meant?
<sabdfl> that page isn't final, but it mentions this special-case
<sabdfl> can i close the bug?
<dholbach> sounds good to me
<pitti> sounds fine
<dholbach> I'll ping everybody for a round of feedback on the document again, then we can go and approve it
<sabdfl> ok, dholbach will you close the bug when it's approved?
<dholbach> effectively it's what "we've been doing all the time", so another round of feedback and renaming the doc should be fine
<dholbach> sabdfl: I can do that too, sure
<sabdfl> [ACTION] dholbach to finalise LeadershipAppointment page, and close bug on sabdfl role in TB
<MootBot> ACTION received:  dholbach to finalise LeadershipAppointment page, and close bug on sabdfl role in TB
<sabdfl> [TOPIC] Discuss https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2010-February/003323.html
<MootBot> New Topic:  Discuss https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2010-February/003323.html
<sabdfl> why do they need to do this: "The ~ubuntu-core-dev[5] and ~developer-membership-board[6] teams have
<sabdfl> been invited to join the ~edubuntu-dev team."
<sabdfl> ?
<cjwatson> standard practice for delegated teams
<sabdfl> is that a soyuz permissions limitation, that requires clusterfscking the teams?
<cjwatson> two different issues
<pitti> u-core-dev is good to have for being able to commit to their branches
<cjwatson> ~developer-membership-board should be able to administer all the delegated teams (we agreed a while back)
<cjwatson> and what pitti said
<sabdfl> so DMB is added as an admin
<sabdfl> the branch commit thing seems like something that could be fixed in LP
<pitti> sabdfl: eventually it will, with the auto-imports
<cjwatson> I think it mostly works already
<sabdfl> ok
<pitti> but right now it's still required for manually created branches
<cjwatson> but there are some edge cases, like seeds, that are difficult to address
<cjwatson> I agree that it is a workaround
<sabdfl> [VOTE] Edubuntu Council to assume responsibility for edubuntu-dev as per https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2010-February/003323.html
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Edubuntu Council to assume responsibility for edubuntu-dev as per https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2010-February/003323.html.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<sabdfl> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from sabdfl. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<cjwatson> let's just be explicit, this is also a request for edubuntu-dev to be allowed to upload to packages in the edubuntu package set, yes?
<sabdfl> yes
<cjwatson> I just noticed that that was mentioned nowhere explicitly in the mail, but there isn't much point otherwise :)
<sabdfl> at least, that's my understanding, if that's what kubuntu-dev does
<cjwatson> it is
<kees> +1 (looks to me like the right set of people in that council)
<MootBot> +1 received from kees. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<Keybuk> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Keybuk. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<cjwatson> I'm happy with the request, Edubuntu has been quite active of late and it's good to see them getting organised like this
<pitti> I know three members from the current team pretty well, and I trust stgraber to pick good developers (he is also in the DMB after all)
<cjwatson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<pitti> thus
<pitti> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pitti. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<sabdfl> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<sabdfl> yay!
<sabdfl> motion carried, congratulations, edubuntu
<cjwatson> I'll implement
<sabdfl> alright, on the chair, may I suggest we rotate alphabetically?
<cjwatson> by first name?  that would be mdz next then
<sabdfl> [ACTION] cjwatson to implement edubuntu-dev delegations
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to implement edubuntu-dev delegations
<cjwatson> thanks
<sabdfl> i don't mind on what basis, could be last letter of first name :-)
<cjwatson> or by nick, in which case I think it would be me
<sabdfl> nick it is
<sabdfl> that way, we can spend less time wondering
<cjwatson> BRAIN FILLED WITH IRC
<cjwatson> ok
<sabdfl> folks can arrange substitutions, but the skeleton is fixed
<sabdfl> thanks colin
<sabdfl> and thanks all, apologies for tardy timekeeping
<sabdfl> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:11.
<Keybuk> One piece of OB
<Laney> Can I quickly ask that you guys respond to my CLI/mono mail?
<cjwatson> we didn't start until :12 anyway :-)
<cjwatson> Laney: our bad, will do
<Keybuk> for the purposes of appropriate notification, I'm considering stepping down from this board
<Keybuk> I haven't made a decision yet, but will do so before the next meeting
<cody-somerville> :o
<JFo> o/
<amitk> \o
<cking> o/
<ogasawara> yo
 * pgraner o/
<bjf> Roll Call
<manjo> ..
<jjohansen> \o
<bjf> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:01. The chair is bjf.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * apw zones in
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<bjf> NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Action Item: None
 * smb holds up his cup of tea in a greeting gesture
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Action Item: None
<bjf> [TOPIC] Release Metrics: (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Release Metrics: (JFo)
<JFo> Release Meeting Bugs (4 bugs, 7 blueprints)
<JFo> ===
<JFo> Beta 1 Milestoned Bugs (74 bugs against all packages (up 12))
<JFo>  * 9 linux kernel bugs (up 1)
<JFo>  * 1 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 1 linux-ec2 bug (no change)
<JFo>  * 1 linux-mvl-dove bugs (up 1)
<JFo> ===
<JFo> Release Targeted Bugs (207 bugs against all packages (up 43))
<JFo>  * 24 linux kernel bugs (up 6)
<JFo>  * 1 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 1 linux-ec2 bug (no change)
<JFo>  * 2 linux-mvl-dove bugs (up 2)
<JFo> ===
<JFo> Milestoned Features -
<JFo>  * 0 blueprints
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-bug-handling (JFo)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-bug-handling
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-bug-handling (JFo)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-bug-handling
<JFo> * I'm almost done with my analysis of the X debugging pages. I will update the team on the current state of the Kernel Team pages and my initial draft of recommended changes to the structure and layout via the e-mail list.
<JFo>  * I'll have the arsenal scripts running (not in dry run mode) by the end of this week.
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review (apw)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review (apw)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review
<apw> We have pulled out the HID devices to modular.  Discussions on other drivers still pending, any changes will have to occur post beta-1 now.
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kms (sconklin / apw)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kms
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kms (sconklin / apw)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kms
<apw> We have committed to the v2.6.33 drm backport which is now uploaded to the archive.  Re-testing of graphics issues now to be requested.
<apw> ..
<sconklin> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-suspend-resume (manjo)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-suspend-resume
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-suspend-resume (manjo)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-suspend-resume
<manjo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-apparmor-development (jjohansen)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-apparmor-development
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-apparmor-development (jjohansen)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-apparmor-development
<jjohansen> Editing text for another push to LKML
<pgraner> bjf, JFo: we need to put out a CFT for the .33 drm stack asap
 * JFo makes a note
<apw> pgraner, i think that X are meant to be doing that, so you might want to check
<cnd> CFT?
<apw> call for testing
<JFo> Call For Testing
<bjf> bjf, wonders why I'm being told that
<cnd> k
<JFo> ..
<pgraner> bjf: for an action item, no more
<bjf> [ACTION] we need to put out a CFT for the .33 drm stack asap
<MootBot> ACTION received:  we need to put out a CFT for the .33 drm stack asap
<pgraner> JFo: pls check with Bryce on the X testing
<JFo> pgraner, ack
<jjohansen> I still have a few LSM audit issues to attend to and we will see how the __d_path discussions play out.  Currently trying to keep the 2 pushes separate
<jjohansen> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-boot-performance (apw, csurbhi)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-boot-performance
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-boot-performance (apw, csurbhi)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-boot-performance
<apw> Nothing to report.
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: Lucid Audio Support (bjf)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: Lucid Audio Support (bjf)
<bjf> Nothing new this week.
<bjf> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: Lucid Better Power Mgt (amitk)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: Lucid Better Power Mgt (amitk)
<amitk> Pushed some power policy scripts to https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~amitk/ubuntu/lucid/pm-utils-powersave-policy/amit
<amitk> will prepare a package in PPA and issue call for testing tomorrow
<amitk> pitti is going to review them in the mean while, but other comments welcome
<amitk> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: EC2 Lucid Kernel Status (jjohansen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: EC2 Lucid Kernel Status (jjohansen)
<jjohansen> Bug #527208 is still outstanding
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 527208 in linux-ec2 "ec2 instance fails boot, no console output on c1.xlarge" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/527208
<jjohansen> other than that no known issues
<jjohansen> however it may be affecting more than just c1.xlarge kernels
<jjohansen> just not reliably
<jjohansen> and of course its one of those bugs we get no, debugging info for
<jjohansen> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Lucid (apw)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Lucid (apw)
<apw> Lucid remains at stable v2.6.32.9.  As mentioned above we have taken the v2.6.33 DRM backport as this greatly improves stability and removes the need for the Nouveau LBM module, cleaning up installs.  We have also incorporated building the kernel perf tool.
<apw> All of the main kernel (linux, linux-fsl-imx51, linux-mvl-dove, and linux-qcm-msm) are now closed for the Beta-1, uploaded and building, linux-ec2 has been tested and pending a build-test is ready to upload.  Anything which requires a kernel change will have to wait until after beta-1 and will have to pass the abbreviated SRU process (2 acks required).
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (gnarl/smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (gnarl/smb)
<smb> Dapper:      2.6.15-55.82  (security)
<smb> Hardy:       2.6.24-27.65  (security)
<smb>              2.6.24-27.67  (proposed)[15]   1/ 3 verifications done (+0)
<smb> Intrepid:    2.6.27-17.45  (security)
<smb> Jaunty:      2.6.28-18.59  (security)
<smb> Karmic:      2.6.31-20.57  (updates)
<smb>  - LBM       2.6.31-20.22  (updates)
<smb>  - mvl-dove  2.6.31-211.22 (security)
<smb>              2.6.31-211.23 (waiting for acceptance)
<smb>  - fsl-imx51 2.6.31-108.21 (security)
<smb>              2.6.31-108.23 (proposed)[5]  0/ 1 verifications done (+0)
<smb>  - ec2       2.6.31-304.11 (updates)
<smb> Hardy is just about to move to updates.
<smb> Coming up another security update, then final big upload for Karmic.
<smb> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<JFo> Incoming Bugs
<JFo> 280 Lucid Bugs (up 95)
<JFo> Current regression stats (broken down by release):
<JFo> ==== regression-potential (up 29) ====
<JFo>   * 86 lucid bugs
<JFo> ==== regression-update (up 1) ====
<JFo>   * 11 karmic bugs
<JFo>   * 5 jaunty bugs
<JFo>   * 2 intrepid bugs
<JFo>   * 1 hardy bug
<JFo> ==== regression-release (down 2) ====
<JFo>   * 56 karmic bugs
<JFo>   * 22 jaunty bugs
<JFo>   * 11 intrepid bugs
<JFo>   * 4 hardy bugs
<JFo> ==== regression-proposed (no change) ====
<JFo>   * 1 karmic bug
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<JFo> There was no bug day last week. This is a gentle reminder that we have decided to hold a weekly Kernel Bug Day to deal with regression bugs. What this means is that for one day a week we would like for the kernel team to focus on addressing 'regression-' tagged bugs. We'd like to see a significant reduction in the numbers reported above.
<JFo> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.tag=regression-potential+regression-release+regression-proposed+regression-updates&field.tags_combinator=ANY
<JFo> The plan, as I see it, is to implement this up to release and then discuss the continued utility of having a Kernel Team Bug Day much like the Bug Days we have now with the community.
<JFo> The next Bug Day will be next Tuesday. The focus will be on Bugs with patches attached. As usual, all are welcome to help, and all help is greatly appreciated. :)
<JFo> any thoughts?
<apw> seems good, we want a real focus on regressions in lucid
<JFo> I think this is a good start
<JFo> we can refine as needed
<JFo> I'd also like to keep the community focussed bug day stuff
<JFo> unless any of you feel that is too much
<smb> JFo, Did yo mention here when that kernel team day will be?
<manjo> smb, tue
<JFo> I don't think I did here smb
<smb> manjo, THought that is community day
<JFo> The Kernel Bug Day will be on Tuesday of every week until release
<smb> ok, so same day
<apw> normally we have a community section
<JFo> The community bug days will be scheduled for Tuesdays as well unless we think it should be moved.
<JFo> I am flexible on that
<JFo> we can discuss offline.
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<apw> o/
<JFo> I do...
<bjf> go apw
<apw> We are now basically frozen for Beta-1 (barring kitten killers), I will be pushing out any tasks which required kernel changes to Beta-2 shortly, there is almost nothing in this category.  The remainder of our non-release tasks for Beta-1 need focus, and if they aren't going to make it I want to know.
<JFo> Several links that you may find useful:
<JFo> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~kernel-bugs/+packagebugs
<JFo> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~kernel-bugs/+patches?start=50&batch=50
<apw> ..
<JFo> the first is a breakdown of bugs by package
<JFo> the second is a view created by the Launchpad team of bugs with patches by age
<bjf> the chair has not yet recognized JFo :-)
<manjo> apw, when is the last upload you are doing ? before kernel freeze ?
<JFo> whoops :)
<apw> manjo, they are already in the pipe
<apw> with a 6 hour build time one needs a days slack
<bjf> JFo, you now have the floor
<JFo> heh, sorry about that
<bjf> cost you a beer for everyone
<JFo> the only other thing I have on the above is the fact that the second link is not completely accurate yet
<apw> 192 beers ouch
<amitk> :)
<JFo> bjf, I'm ok with that for the kernel team ;)
<JFo> ..
<bjf> anyone else?
<bjf> thanks everyone
<bjf> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:21.
 * manjo thanks bjf 
<smb> bjf, Ta
<JFo> thanks bjf
<csurbhi> thanks bjf
<cking> ta bjf
<JFo> apw, my apologies for stomping on your remarks
<JFo> :)
<apw> jfo np
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-03-10
<zul> gday
<smoser> (o
<sommer> yo
<kirkland`> o/
<mathiaz>  /o
<zul> is ttx running the meeting?
<hggdh> ~o~
<ttx> hm
<ttx> sorry for being late
<ttx> busy triaging sdamba bugs for our marvelous Bugzapping bugday
<ttx> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 08:06. The chair is ttx.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * jjohansen fades in
<ttx> Agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<ttx> jib is on a plane somewhere, so I'll chair. zul is our scribe today
<ttx> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<ttx> * mathiaz to sync up with cjwatson re: ubuntu-server upload team
<mathiaz> ttx: not done
<ttx> [ACTION] mathiaz to sync up with cjwatson re: ubuntu-server upload team
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to sync up with cjwatson re: ubuntu-server upload team
<ttx> [TOPIC] Beta1 status review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Beta1 status review
<ttx> Beta1Freeze is tomorrow... Only beta1-targeted bugs will be accepted, which doesn't prevent you from queueing less important bugs
<ttx> That should affect several specs
<ttx> eucalyptus-merging-and-packaging: we might want to target extra bugfixes (currently only the upgrade stuff is targeted)
<kirkland`> ttx: i have a qemu-kvm upload coming
<ttx> kirkland`: we'll review the list before I leave for vacation
<kirkland`> ttx: okay
<ttx> apt-mirror/ec2: this should be delivbered without image changes, by reusing the current DNS setup
<ttx> papercuts, bugzapping, puppet-testsuite: fixes of lesser importance should be queued for post beta1freeze
<ttx> Beta1-targeted bugs :
<ttx> bug 499389
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 499389 in bacula "karmic->lucid auto-ugprade test failure" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/499389
<ttx> zul: you're on it ?
<zul> worked on that last night im just want to talk to mvo about it
<ttx> ok.
<ttx> bug 526480 -- still pending MIR team review
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 526480 in liblog-log4perl-perl "[MIR] liblog-log4perl-perl" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/526480
<ttx> bug 519513
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 519513 in eucalyptus "UEC upgrade from 9.10 karmic to Lucid fails" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/519513
<ttx> kirkland: looking good ?
<kirkland> ttx: i think so
<kirkland> ttx: working on it today
<kirkland> ttx: should have something by EoW
<ttx> kirkland: cool !
<ttx> Questions/comments on Beta1 ?
<ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<ttx> hggdh: hi !
<ttx> hggdh: around ?
<mathiaz> kirkland: are you done with the UEC testing with the DC hardware?
<ttx> ok, let's do kernel forst
<ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<ttx> jjohansen: hi !
<jjohansen> hi
<jjohansen> so we still have Bug #527208 outstanding
<ttx> whats'up in the lower rings ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 527208 in linux-ec2 "ec2 instance fails boot, no console output on c1.xlarge" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/527208
<jjohansen> it won't make beta1 as the kernel closed monday
<hggdh> ttx, I am here -- looking at logs
<ttx> hggdh: we'll come back to you in a few
<ttx> we also have https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/531823
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 531823 in linux "[lucid] All linux guests oops in kvm_leave_lazy_mmu during boot (9.04, 9.10, 10.04)" [High,In progress]
<ttx> will we have a workaround for this one soon, or after beta 1 ?
<jjohansen> for the Lucid or Karmic bug?
<ttx> jjohansen: lucid ?
<jjohansen> Soon I hope
<ttx> but with kernel frozen that will be post-beta 1 ?
<jjohansen> correct
<ttx> jjohansen: ok, maybe comment and update milestone to reflect that
<ttx> anything else for kernel ?
<jjohansen> yes
<ttx> back to...
<jjohansen> we had a late conflict ridden rebase for the EC2 kernel, so keep your eyes out for new bugs
<mathiaz> jjohansen: IIUC the vlan-modules udeb should be available in beta1?
<jjohansen> mathiaz: yeah
<mathiaz> jjohansen: great - thanks
<ttx> smoser: ^ ec2 kernel rebase
<smoser> i see.
<ttx> ok, back to...
<ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<ttx> hggdh: hi :)
<hggdh> hi
<ttx> what's up ?
<hggdh> we have now atlas failing on the regression PPA. I do not understand the error:http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/392548/
<hggdh> ans MySQL is still failing
<hggdh> I have a question: is coreutils server, or core?
<mathiaz> hggdh: why is atlas regression tested?
<ttx> probably foundations land, mathiaz could confirm
<zul> what is atlas btw?
<mathiaz> hggdh: coreutils is fondation IMO
<hggdh> mathiaz: I do not know why atlas, it was already there
<ttx> hggdh: ask soren about it when you get a chance
<mathiaz> hggdh: well - it's in universe and I'm not sure it's server related
<mathiaz> zul: atlas - Automatically Tuned Linear Algebra Software
<ttx> zul/mathiaz: mysql is still blocking on the certificate ?
<ttx> who can fix that ?
<mathiaz> ttx: I'd have to look at the logs
<hggdh> even more it states it is related to numerical software...
<hggdh> will ask Soren
<zul> ttx: i have a fix but its failing somewhere else now
<mathiaz> hggdh: IIUC it's 5.0 that fails
<ttx> zul: you're on it ?
<hggdh> mathiaz: mysql-dfsg-5.0 5.1.30really5.0.83-0ubuntu3
<zul> ttx: yeah ill take some time to look at it agian
<mathiaz> hggdh: 5.0 is scheduled to be removed from the archive in lucid
<ttx> mathiaz: you mean we shouldn't care ?
<mathiaz> hggdh: so there is not point in regression testing 5.0 in lucid
<ttx> looks like the contents of the regression rig needs to be updated
<hggdh> sounds like it
<hggdh> suggestions welcome
<ttx> [ACTION] hggdh to remove mysql5.0 and question atlas in the build regression test rig
<MootBot> ACTION received:  hggdh to remove mysql5.0 and question atlas in the build regression test rig
<mathiaz> hggdh: is there a list of packages being published?
<mathiaz> hggdh: and is there a summary of the build failure (and since when)?
<hggdh> mathiaz: yet unknown for first Q, yes, for second. At least I receive emails on the failures
<mathiaz> hggdh: IMO there isn't much visibility on what is done in the regression testing PPA
<ttx> hggdh: try to see inside the QA team how you want to handle that, not sure sharing soren's rig is the best way going forward
<hggdh> I will look at it now. So far I just left it running (and did not worry)
<mathiaz> hggdh: I don't know what's is tested and get notified only when there are build failures
<mathiaz> hggdh: right - at least there is something in place
<ttx> hggdh: did you start looking into the UEC test rig ?
<hggdh> so we need to revisit it
<mathiaz> hggdh: and it's been useful so far IMO
<mathiaz> hggdh: the process may need to be reviewed at next UDS
<hggdh> ttx: no really. kirkland gave me some links to look at, but suggested to wait for the current tests to end
<ttx> hggdh: ok
<ttx> anything else for the QA team ?
<mathiaz> hggdh: right - once kirkland is done, I'll give you an overview of the beast
<hggdh> not right now
<kirkland> mathiaz: hggdh: i'm done now!
<kirkland> mathiaz: it's all yours
<ttx> [TOPIC] Euca2ools/Boto 1.9 test coverage
<MootBot> New Topic:  Euca2ools/Boto 1.9 test coverage
<mathiaz> hggdh: ^^ - ok we should sync up later after the meeting then
<hggdh> mathiaz: roj
<ttx> Background: we run our euca2ools with boto 1.9 while upstream tests with boto 1.8
<ttx> We also tend to run always the same basic set of commands (I know I do)
<ttx> so in order to get confidence that lesser-used commands are working, I prepared a test coverage page
<ttx> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Boto19TestCoverage
<ttx> When you use a euca2ools command succesfully, please update that page.
<ttx> For the mre complex commands, the idea is to test the optional parameters as well, which will take more time
<ttx> I know smoser has been running quite a few of those already, we just need to make sure we cover them all.
<ttx> questions ?
<ttx> (this will probably be a beta2 target)
<smoser> and, please, when you find something broken, open a bug
<smoser> and copy me, its probably easily fixed, but not if we dont' know about it.
<ttx> bonus points if you can check if the bug also exists with boto 1.8
<ttx> smoser: any way to easily test with boto 1.8 ?
<smoser> which is, actually easy to do. i will post instructions on how.
<ttx> smoser: ok, just update the wikipage
<smoser> yes
<ttx> [TOPIC] Server Papercuts
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server Papercuts
<ttx> Status for beta-1 : https://launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+milestone/lucid-beta-1
<ttx> 4 bugs still open from a total of 14
<ttx> Please feel free to fix what you can, especially before Beta1Freeze
<ttx> No nominations this week, which is quite disappointing
<ttx> maybe some more blogging needs to be done about it
<ttx> i can't beleieve we identified all the pain points
<ttx> We only have 5 targets for beta2, so 9 more should be identified
<ttx> Comments ?
<zul> maybe blog about it a bit more
<ttx> [ACTION] ttx to blog about the beta-1 campaign so far, to trigger new candidates
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ttx to blog about the beta-1 campaign so far, to trigger new candidates
<ttx> [TOPIC] Bugzapping status (kirkland)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bugzapping status (kirkland)
<ttx> kirkland: quick status ? Samba started today.
<mathiaz> ttx: aha - that explains the sudden increase in samba related bug mail
<kirkland> ttx: i think it went well so far
<zul> mathiaz: its not just me ;)
<kirkland> ttx: qemu-kvm's bugs cut in half
<ttx> kirkland: is there anything planned for next week already ?
<kirkland> ttx: and i'm a lot more confident in our qemu-kvm offering now
<kirkland> ttx: not planned, no ... i could lead a libvirt one, i suppose
<kirkland> ttx: but i'd be happy to see someone else lead one too
<kirkland> s/too/instead/g
<ttx> For those interested, we are running a two-day samba bugzapping effort... Today is bugtriage day, in #ubuntu-bugs with the QA team
<ttx> (combined with a bugday, which proves very fruitful)
<ttx> At the end of today we should have bugfixing targets for tomorrow.
<kirkland> ttx: week after next is eucalyptus/euca2ools
<ttx> We'll coordinate bugfixing tomorrow in #ubuntu-server
<mathiaz> and there is a mysql one scheduled as well
<ttx> mathiaz: when is it ?
<mathiaz> ttx: week of April 1st
<mathiaz> ttx: just before Beta2 freeze
<ttx> sounds like a bad joke.
<ttx> anything else on the bugzapping subject ?
<mathiaz> ttx: :) it's gonna be the last days of March
<kirkland> not from me
<ttx> [TOPIC] Server documentation status (ttx, sommer)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server documentation status (ttx, sommer)
<kirkland> well, thanks to all who have participated
<mathiaz> ttx: nothing on the 1st of April (it's BetaFreeze2 actually)
<ttx> I wanted to get a current status on the server documentation
<ttx> sommer: around ?
<ttx> I identified a few outdated things in the current guide
<ttx> was wondering if help was needed to fix it
<ttx> example: it talks about screen-profiles, likewise-open5
<ttx> requirements look like they need a refresh
<ttx> UEC is absent
<ttx> See http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/
<ttx> OK, I'll sync with sommer by email on the subject -- feel free to chime in with the outdated stuff you find
<kirkland> ttx: i'll gladly update the screen-profiles -> byobu bits
<ttx> [ACTIOn] ttx to bring up status of server doc in an email thread
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ttx to bring up status of server doc in an email thread
<ttx> [TOPIC] Server team upload rights (Daviey, mathiaz)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server team upload rights (Daviey, mathiaz)
<ttx> mathiaz: delayed to next week ?
<mathiaz> ttx: yes
<ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly SRU review: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#SRU%20weekly%20review  (mathiaz)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly SRU review: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#SRU%20weekly%20review  (mathiaz)
<mathiaz> so I cleaned up the nominations lists
<mathiaz> there are two nominations for karmic:
<mathiaz> bug 530945
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 530945 in keepalived "[SRU] keepalived in karmic" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/530945
<mathiaz> bug 34181
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 34181 in mysql-dfsg-5.0 "locale and charset problem in mysql - default character set should be set to utf8" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/34181
<mathiaz> I'm going to decline the latter
<ttx> yes
<ttx> I'd tend to accept the nomination for the first one
<ttx> Andres knows what he is doing :)
<ttx> He will probably push the SRU through
<mathiaz> ok - karmic bugs processed
<zul> we might want 182572 in hardy
<mathiaz> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
<mathiaz> anything worth ^^ in there
<mathiaz> bug 182572
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 182572 in server-papercuts "Samba Fails to Split GECOS on Comma" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/182572
<mathiaz> kirkland: anything SRU worthy that came out of the qemu bug zap?
<ttx> zul: it's ostly cosmetic
<kirkland> mathiaz: i don't think so
<ttx> nothing from me
<mathiaz> allright then
<mathiaz> that's all for the SRU review
<ttx> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<zul> php 5.3.1 is mostly done
<hggdh> this is the current list of packages being regression-tested (from Soren):
<zul> debian has 5.3.2 which fixes a couple of issues with things like mediawiki
<Daviey> zul: 5.3.2 bug fix only release didn't seem like a good idea?
<Daviey> bah, too slow
<zul> Daviey: im thniking of it for beta2
<ttx> smoser: help needed testing EBS root ?
<smoser> anyone who wants to start an EBS root volume and kick it a bit is my friend
<smoser> and will be awarded a or other beverage if they tell me their experiences
<zul> as in kick it when its down? ;)
<mathiaz> smoser: is the information on which EBS volume to test available somewhere?
<hggdh> packages = libvirt postgresql 8.3 and 8.4, mysql 5.0, openldap, php5, python2.6, and atlas
<smoser> mathiaz, just in my email to the list at the moment.
<smoser> to multiple lists
<smoser> hold on, let me dig url
<mathiaz> and I'd also like to congratulate the whole team for the New,Undecided daily bug triagging
<mathiaz> the whole backlog has been processed last week
<smoser> http://groups.google.com/group/ec2ubuntu/browse_thread/thread/a7fdc6f714f71085/5efd475e9e536a9f?lnk=gst&q=ebs+root#5efd475e9e536a9f
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://groups.google.com/group/ec2ubuntu/browse_thread/thread/a7fdc6f714f71085/5efd475e9e536a9f?lnk=gst&q=ebs+root#5efd475e9e536a9f
<mathiaz> so congrats to all!
 * ttx highfives with all the team
<mathiaz> now we should just stay on cruise control
<mathiaz> so make sure to review the list on your assigned day
<ttx> ok
<kirkland> \o/
<ttx> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<ttx> Next week, same time, same place
<ttx> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:00.
<lool> heya
<barry> hi everybody.  welcome to this week's foundations team meeting
<barry> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is barry.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<tremolux> hey!
<cjwatson> hi
<ev> hello
 * slangasek waves
<barry> it's my first time chairing, so let me know if i forget anything :)
<Keybuk> the donuts
<doko> hi
<ev>  fatty
<barry> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2010/0310
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2010/0310
<Keybuk> (says the guy who just pounded his fists into the sofa screaming "I was just going to say that!")
<barry> Keybuk: didn't you get the bagels i sent?
<Keybuk> barry: ev must have eaten them all before I got here
 * barry can't do anything about that
<ev> yeah, proper bagels wouldn't stand a chance
<ev> anyway
<barry> lessee, james_w, doko, slangasek are you here?
<james_w> hi
<barry> oops, sorry slangasek
 * cjwatson sneaks his activity report in under the wire
<slangasek> yes, you may have overlooked me amid all the lust for fried pastries :)
<barry> i think mvo sends his virtual apology
<barry> :)
<Keybuk> I thought we'd tempted you into going to voodoo donuts
<slangasek> Keybuk: I went to voodoo donuts - I didn't eat any of them :)
<barry> [TOPIC] lightning round
<MootBot> New Topic:  lightning round
<barry> >>> team = ['Keybuk', 'barry', 'cjwatson', 'ev', 'james_w', 'lool', 'mvo', 'slangasek', 'slangasek', 'tremolux']
<barry> >>> import random
<barry> >>> order = team[:]
<barry> >>> random.shuffle(order)
<barry> >>> print ', '.join(order)
<barry> tremolux, Keybuk, ev, slangasek, mvo, cjwatson, slangasek, james_w, barry, lool
<ev> lol
<barry>  
<tremolux> heh
<tremolux> I've been working on OEM tasks from last Thu through yesterday.
<tremolux>  Now back to my Software Center todo list, bug fixing and triage, etc.
<tremolux>  (done)
<Keybuk> I rewrote the Plymouth VT handling code,
<Keybuk> then I rewrote the Plymouth X transition/handover code,
<Keybuk> then I rewrote bits of various plugins to make them work,
<Keybuk> then I fixed the binary to remove various race conditions,
<Keybuk> NOW FETCH ME WIL WHEATON!
 * barry realizes he has a bug and should have used a set :)
<ev> mostly ubiquity UI changes after a meeting the other day with the design team (sorry release team), looking into an apt-setup bug whereby if you have a USB disk that exposes a fake CD device, apt-setup fails.
<ev> (done)
<doko> barry: should slangasek report twice, and me not at all? ;p
<slangasek> doko: you can be me first!
<barry> doko: that's my bug.  you can be slangasek II today
<slangasek> continuing work on casper plymouth support
<slangasek> FFes, we have them
<slangasek> working on the supportable-binaries spec
<slangasek> (done)
<lool> Was on travel to London; doing a lot of interviews and working on random ARM bugs.
<doko> vacation last week; now working on llvm updates, preparing icedtea6-1.8 release, python updates to new subminor releases
<lool> (done)
<doko> (done)
<lool> Uh /me is confused
<lool> (scrolled back to wrong line, sorry)
<james_w> fixing bugs in bzr-builddeb, still need to get that synced from unstable, chasing failures, and working with LP developers on the build from branch feature. More of the same to come.
<james_w> (done)
<cjwatson> you're all very confused
<cjwatson> hm, no mvo
 * slangasek grins
<cjwatson> done: parted 2.2; grub 1.98; failed to finish console-setup/plymouth interaction fixes but had a good go at it and should be able to finish in time
<cjwatson> blocked: nothing
<cjwatson> todo: partman-base fixes for advanced format drives (doing the hardware setup today); dpkg performance/correctness backports, nearly ready to go; running around like headless chicken fixing bugs for beta 1
<cjwatson> --
<barry> Several branches merged for SC ratings and reviews.  Still to decide whether
<barry> we're going to make it.  Good discussion on canonical-tech about the url
<barry> structure for r&r server.  Computer Janitor dbus refactoring mostly done,
<barry> waiting for review.  Would love to get minor ui exception to clean the gui of
<barry> unused elements.  Starting implementation work for PEP 3147 today. (done)
<barry> anybody we haven't heard from? :)
<barry> [TOPIC] Outstanding action items from last meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Outstanding action items from last meeting
<barry> none that i'm aware of.  am i missing anything?
<barry> [TOPIC] Milestoned bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Milestoned bugs
<barry> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=21446
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=21446
<barry> not sure what to say about this, does anybody have anything on this topic?
<cjwatson> yow, we're up since last week
<lool> new arm bugs in the mix
<cjwatson> is there a view of the milestone list that shows assignees?
<slangasek> no :(
<barry> yeah, that kind of sucks
<slangasek> not in LP - there are some external reports, though I don't know that those are current either
<slangasek> (nor have the URLs to hand)
<barry> [TOPIC] Targeted bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Targeted bugs
<barry> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+bugs
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+bugs
<barry> these also don't show assignees
<barry> any thoughts on these bugs?
<cjwatson> if somebody could track down an appropriate report, that would be great
<cjwatson> what I really want to know is which bugs aren't being dealt with
 * slangasek nods
<cjwatson> there's https://edgelaunchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-10.04-beta-1, although it's suboptimal in other ways
<cjwatson> err
<cjwatson> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-10.04-beta-1
<slangasek> it includes all the milestoned bugs, not just the targeted ones, yes
<cjwatson> and doesn't show the package.  and shows fix-released bugs.
<cjwatson> (and invalid and wontfix)
<cjwatson> in fact in general it sucks, just differently
<barry> cjwatson: do you think the reports exist but we just aren't sure where, or that they don't exist (at all, or in a useful format)?
<cjwatson> I'm fairly sure they don't exist in Launchpad; they have existed externally in the past but I'm not sure where or if they're up to date
<cjwatson> was it Bryce who used to maintain one?
<barry> agreed about launchpad
<barry> cjwatson: if you let me know what it is you'd like to see (either in irc or via email) i can take a crack at a launchpadlib script to produce the report.  dunno where i'd stick it right now, but i'd link it off the foundations wiki page
<cjwatson> ok, action me?
<barry> cjwatson: yep, and then action me
<barry> [ACTION] cjwatson to spec out requirements for launchpadlib bug report script
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to spec out requirements for launchpadlib bug report script
<barry> [ACTION] barry to implement script
<MootBot> ACTION received:  barry to implement script
<barry> sound okay?
<cjwatson> yeah, I'd like this part of the meeting to be farming out tasks that aren't being handled, rather than everyone sitting madly opening tabs in firefox
<barry> that sounds like a much more productive use of our time.  maybe combine milestoned and targeted bugs topics
<barry> cjwatson: we can take this offline.  moving on...
<barry> [TOPIC] Sponsorship queue
<MootBot> New Topic:  Sponsorship queue
<barry> [LINK] http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/
<barry> again, apologies.  i'm not sure what i should say here
<barry> [TOPIC] Any business from activity reports
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any business from activity reports
<barry> nothing from reports; does anybody have anything not on the agenda?
<barry> reminder: send me your reports if you haven't already :)
 * slangasek nods
<cjwatson> I was wondering if anyone had thoughts on bug 513197
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 513197 in ntfs-3g "Please merge ntfs-3g 1:2010.1.16-0.1 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/513197
<cjwatson> I have been meaning to get round to merging this for some time, and it would be a shame to release without the stability fixes
<cjwatson> OTOH it has feature enhancements as well ...
<barry> would be nice to have.  i was just trying to mount an ntfs usb drive for a friend over the weekend to get some data off of it.  mostly worked but had a few minor problems
<barry> anything else not on the agenda?
<slangasek> cjwatson: I suppose there's enough there to send it through for an FFe
<barry> how about...
<barry> [TOPIC] Good news!
<MootBot> New Topic:  Good news!
<cjwatson> slangasek: 'k
<barry> python 2.6.5rc2 coming out today.  2.6.5 final planned for 2010-03-19.  2.7a4 and 3.1.2rc1 were released last week.
<barry> [TOPIC] Chair for next meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Chair for next meeting
<cjwatson> it's probably about my turn again?
<barry> cjwatson: sounds good.  thanks!
<barry> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<barry> i'm feeling like we're done :)
<barry> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:37.
<barry> thanks everybody!
<tremolux> thanks!
<ev> thanks!
 * ara waves
<bladernr_> \0/
 * bladernr_ and his giant head have arrived
 * charlie-tca waves too
 * bdmurray waves
 * marjo waves
 * stgraber waves (but will only be there for 2 minutes ;))
<pedro_> hello!!
 * fader_ waves.
<marjo> #startmeeting QA Team Meeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:59. The chair is marjo.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<marjo> hi folks
<marjo> Agenda:
<marjo>     * SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
<marjo>     * Bug Day status -- pvillavi
<marjo>     * Ubiquity testing -- ara
<marjo> [TOPIC] * SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
<MootBot> New Topic:  * SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
<sbeattie> SRU Activity report for the past two weeks (since 2010-02-24):
<sbeattie> * karmic: 7 new packages in -proposed (ec2-init, eucalyptus, linux-fsl-imx51, logcheck, rrdtool, tzdata, xorg-server) and 12 packages pushed to -updates (bld, d4x, eucalyptus, foomatic-filters, gcalctool, image-store-proxy, linux, linux-backports-modules-2.6.31, linux-ec2, openoffice.org, python-profiler, ubuntu-dev-tools)
<sbeattie> * jaunty: 2 new packages in -proposed (cups, tzdata) and 2 packages pushed to -updates (amsn, openoffice.org)
<sbeattie> * intrepid: 1 new package in -proposed (tzdata) and 1 package pushed to -updates (openoffice.org)
<sbeattie> * hardy: 2 new packages in -proposed (cupsys, tzdata) and 3 package pushed to -updates (linux, openoffice.org, virtualbox-ose-modules)
<sbeattie> * dapper: 1 new package in -proposed (langpack-locales)
<sbeattie> Thanks to Paul Elliott (omahn), Michael Nagel, Ralf Doering, Erik B. Andersen, and Evan Broder for testing SRUs the past two weeks.
<sbeattie> (end report)
<marjo> thx sbeattie
<marjo> any questions re SRU?
<marjo> [TOPIC]  * Bug Day status -- pvillavi aka pedro
<MootBot> New Topic:   * Bug Day status -- pvillavi aka pedro
<pedro_> This week the Ubuntu Server Team is concentrating on Samba
<pedro_> mostly doing bug fixing and triaging
<pedro_> the triaging part is happening today with an special Bug Day we organized for them
<pedro_> you can follow up the progress on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20100310
<pedro_> the bug fixing part is going to happen tomorrow
<pedro_> for that you can find more information on ttx post about it http://fnords.wordpress.com/
 * ttx hugs pedro_
<pedro_> again if you have some spare minutes please join us, specially if you have access to a windows 7 machine and can test with it
 * pedro_ hugs ttx back
<pedro_> for tomorrow!
<pedro_> Kyle Law organized a bug day on which the target is Ubiquity
<pedro_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20100311
<pedro_> I saw that there's an Ubiquity item on the agenda as well so seems tomorrow is going to be an Ubiquity day for lot of people ;-)
<marjo> pedro: yes, ubiquity needs some extra love these days
<pedro_> marjo, cool! we hope to have a great participation from our community on that
 * pedro_ hugs the bugsquad
<pedro_> marjo, that's all from here ;-)
<marjo> pedro_ thx!
<marjo> [TOPIC] Ubiquity testing -- ara
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubiquity testing -- ara
<ara> hello!
<ara> to continue with ubiquity...
<ara> we are trying to test its changes from now, until the release of Lucid. The objective is to catch bugs earlier, and avoid late rebuilds during ISO testing.
<ara> I already sent a couple of emails to the ubuntu-qa mailing list
<ara> last week we tested 2.1.30, and this week it is the turn of 2.1.33
<ara> Of course, we are not covering all the testcases, but just some combinations of them.
<ara> Finishing a test won't do any harm, and we only have 11.
<ara> So, if you have a little time to cover one or two testcases, we will easily reach full coverage by the end of the week.
<ara> you can find the testcases at http://pairwise.qa.ubuntu.com/
<ara> does anybody have any questions about the process?
<YokoZar> I'll note that there were a variety of Ubiquity regressions in the past few releases (eg Jaunty->Intrepid I think had a problem where if you mounted a disk it wouldn't unmount it for you at install time, but Hardy would)
<YokoZar> My question would be about adding test cases for issues like that
<YokoZar> or rather specific tests for each regression we've had in the past
<ara> YokoZar, that would be awesome, we have a new feature in the ISO test tracker that allow to add optional testcases
<ara> YokoZar, our problem, always, is to reach all the coverage
<ara> YokoZar, adding 100 new testcases won't help, if nobody covers them
<YokoZar> Of course
<YokoZar> Although these sorts of Ubiquity issues aren't necessarily limited to just pre-release ISO testing but rather could be an ongoing thing like you noted
<ara> YokoZar, feel free to send your testcases suggestions to the ubuntu-qa mailing list to discuss them there
<ara> YokoZar, or do you have any example right now?
<sbeattie> ara: do we shuffle the pairings in each round of testing, or are they the same pairs as from the 2.1.30 testing?
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu does not have current desktop images, for anyone trying to do this
<YokoZar> Oh, regarding Ubiquity, I did notice a whole bunch of grammar errors and out of date things in the slideshow itself
<ara> sbeattie, I am afraid this week and last one were the same (I did it quickly this morning), but indeed, your suggestion makes sense. I will shuffle them for next week
<YokoZar> I suspect this isn't something that's "tested" regularly
<ara> YokoZar, this is not the place to discuss current bugs of ubiquity
<YokoZar> I'm not sure what the process is for updating that sort of thing as the slideshow is new though
<bdmurray> well that's easy enough to look at / fix without install testing
<YokoZar> I guess it's just more ubiquity bugs in general then that we catch with testing
<marjo> any other questions re ubiquity testing?
<marjo> thx ara!
<marjo> [TOPIC] New Agenda Topics?
<MootBot> New Topic:  New Agenda Topics?
<marjo> folks: any new topics for today?
<marjo> if not, i propose we adjourn the meeting
<marjo> going once
<marjo> twice
<marjo> ok ttx has quit; must be end of meeting
<fader_> Heh
<marjo> thx all!
<ara> thanks!
<marjo> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:19.
<ara> bye bye
<pedro_> thanks!
<arcaous> hello
<arcaous> the matrix has you
<kamusin> haha
<highvoltage> hi
<alkisg> Hi all
<mgariepy> hi
 * stgraber waves
<ubudog> hello
<mgariepy> i will be there this afternoon but i'm following 2 meetings. i won't be there to interact much.
<ubudog> next up is the server team meeting right?
<highvoltage> ubudog: yep
<ubudog> should start about now
<highvoltage> anything we need to add for the agenda tonight?
<highvoltage> ubudog: oh this is the Edubuntu meeting starting now
<ubudog> oh ok
<ubudog> why isn't the membership meeting on the fridge calender for thursday?
<highvoltage> ubudog: server meeting was 5 hours ago according to the Fridge calendar
<ubudog> hmm
<highvoltage> for technical things from my side,
<Lns> hi guys
<ubudog> hello
<highvoltage> the ltsp-live script is now working. I'm just going to clean up a bit and then update the ltsp package
<stgraber> yeah !
<highvoltage> it still needs a menu entry but that's nothing big at least
<highvoltage> we also still need the squashfs on the dvd but I'll pest -vvv lamont and hopefully that will help :)
<highvoltage> the live install cd will reuse some of the live ltsp stuff, I also still need to do the zenity dialog that runs from the ubiquity hook, I should have that done by the enf of the week
<stgraber> great
<highvoltage> from the artwork dept, the missing icon we have in our theme is due to bug 525295
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 525295 in indicator-sound "Lucid indicator icons are not shown. Displays the "unknown icon" instead" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/525295
<highvoltage> it should be fixed soon, not so much we have to do there, I'll keep an eye on it though and if we have to I'll do a workaround in the icon theme
<highvoltage> gdm seems to just use the default gnome wallpaper now so nothing we had to change there
<highvoltage> we still need a new LDM theme and plymouth theme, and Edubuntu logos need to be updated everywhere, but we're waiting on new Edubuntu logos from Canonical for that
<highvoltage> stgraber: did canonical perhaps give you any kind of ETA for that?
<stgraber> yeah, eta was a week ago ;)
<stgraber> I'll poke Iain a bit and see when we can expect to get the new logo
<Lns> we just need an 'E' and a 'd' and we can make it ourselves =p
<highvoltage> Lns: give me an "E"!
<stgraber> yeah, that's the issue, these two letters haven't been approved yet
 * Lns loves the new font for ubuntu logo
<highvoltage> we'll just grab the E and the d from the old ubuntu-title font :)
<stgraber> highvoltage: not sure we want that ;)
<Lns> ooo, that's a good idea =) an 'edu' that is a bit different
<highvoltage> that would be a branding nightmare :)
<Lns> maybe bolded or something?
<highvoltage> that's basically where things stand from my side at the moment
<highvoltage> oh and there's an annoying ltsp bug where ldm-server's installation just stops but it's a known issue
<stgraber> fixed
<stgraber> uploaded 2 hours ago
<highvoltage> \o/
<Lns> nice stgraber =)
<stgraber> well, "I guess it's fixed". I'm currently 7000km away from my LTSP setup ;)
<highvoltage> stgraber: coming from you, "I guess it's fixed" is good enough for me :)
<highvoltage> overall we're not looking too bad for Lucid.
<stgraber> indeed
<highvoltage> if we could get that squashfs image and logos within the next week or so, then we can focus on bugs and getting the website/marketing/etc good
<stgraber> something else, for these of you who didn't see my post on -devel is that we have edubuntu-dev approved as uploader for the edubuntu package set in lucid
<highvoltage> and also start drawing up ideas for lucid+1
<highvoltage> stgraber: wow, I missed that, that is great news, we've been waiting for that for a long time
<highvoltage> stgraber: shall we make the next meeting an EC meeting so that we can approve uploaders?
<stgraber> yeah, I suggested doing that in that mail
<stgraber> so we really should make the next meeting an EC meeting, we should probably look at the documentation in detail as it's basically the EC approving new edubuntu-dev members who will also be EC members :)
<stgraber> so that will be quite interesting ;)
<highvoltage> it's one of the problems with having a small team
<highvoltage> I guess it was like that when the first Ubuntu teams started out as well
<highvoltage> yikes I haven't read mailing lists today at all (been on of those days)
<stgraber> hehe
<highvoltage> stgraber: so does the package set cover all packages in our seeds?
<highvoltage> or just the educational ones?
<stgraber> other than that, I'm planning another ldm + ltsp upload quite soon, currently producing snapshot builds on request in my PPA and will tag + upload, ideally before beta (next week)
<stgraber> highvoltage: only the edubuntu-specific ones
<stgraber> highvoltage: and it's not complete yet, for example the menueditor isn't part of the set currently
<highvoltage> ok
<stgraber> I attached the list of the packages in the set to that mail
<highvoltage> sbalneav will be glad
<alkisg> We should also emphasize our "stable" ppa - maybe even provide an easy way for people to put it in their sources
<stgraber> alkisg: add-apt-repository should be easy enough, maybe apt-url can do that too
<highvoltage> next week once our technical work should be mostly done, I'm going to work a bit with hedgemadge so that we can get our website more or less sorted. I don't want to leave that to the last minute before release
<highvoltage> next week would probably also be a good timme to start working on some release notes/announcements so that we don't have to do that right at the end as well
<stgraber> having beta released next week, I'll at least update the release notes to include any relevant edubuntu item (like the fact we're missing the squashfs, if not fixed by then)
<highvoltage> the stable ppa- have we decided what that will be yet?
<stgraber> for the actual release, we'll probably just do as usual, copy/paste from Ubuntu, include our edubuntu-specific items, work on it on the wiki + copy it to the website afterwards
<highvoltage> I guess it will just be a ppa owned by edubuntu-dev
<stgraber> yep, that'd make sense
<highvoltage> oh, it's allready registered
<highvoltage> 3 of them, Edubuntu Testing Archive, Edubuntu Stable Updates, Edubuntu Work in Progress
 * mhall119|work is here
<alkisg> It'd be nice if we shipped selected updates through them
<alkisg> E.g. ltsp or italc updates...
<highvoltage> yep. people who want the latest and greatest (and bleeding edge) ltsp versions will probably use stgraber's ppa
<alkisg> Sure - I was mostly thinking of bug-fixing updates
<highvoltage> but it will probably be a good idea to copy some ltsp package versions over to the edubuntu ppa to make some important fixes available to them
<highvoltage> ltsp is at least important enough to be SRU'd for most issues
<alkisg> Well, "ldm hangs on logout" never got an SRU
<stgraber> nobody ever worked on one ;)
<alkisg> k, but a ppa would make that much easier. In the same sense that people are using stgraber's ppa for ltsp, they could be using edubuntu's stable ppa for selected updates
<highvoltage> yeah the bug fix must be available first before the paackage can be updated :)
<alkisg> E.g. new sabayon that's actually working... etc
<highvoltage> I assumed we would use that for new packages as well that's not in a release yet, that we've tested and know is usuable?
<highvoltage> anything else for the meeting? Seems like we pretty much covered everything
<stgraber> nothing on my side
 * alkisg will try to have CK/PK fixes for ltsp fat clients in time for beta
<highvoltage> I just want to say thanks to each one of you who've been involved so far. been great working with you and I think Lucid will be a great release judging by what we have so far
<highvoltage> it's going to give us something real good to build lucid+1 one
<stgraber> yep, +1
<highvoltage> *on
<alkisg> Right, it's a really good (and fresh) start
<highvoltage> I'd really like to see some of LaserJock's ideals realised for the M release
<highvoltage> have some interaction with educators and find out what they want and see how much we can do for them
<highvoltage> K12-LTSP has some simple scripts that does things like push an icon to all users' desktops
<highvoltage> it's a simple thing but people like it. I think there's a bunch of things like that we could look at
<alkisg> Yes, a collection of scripts would be great
 * alkisg is working on that :)
<highvoltage> I know and I'm counting on that :)
<highvoltage> alkisg: that would also be nice for the PPA
<highvoltage> ok I'm going to call the meeting to an end unless there's anything else?
<highvoltage> ok I guess it's off to #edubuntu then.
<highvoltage> *gong*
<alkisg> Thanks all
<jfrorie> ne1 from the laptop qa team online?
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-03-11
<ubudog> membership meeting up next right?
<dmizer> as far as i know.
<ubudog> ok
<ubudog> it was not on the fridge calender
<ubudog> but on the regional board
<dmizer> i noticed.
<ozzie_> according to the wiki, membership is in2 minutes
<ubudog> yep
<ubudog> i might have to go for like 5 minutes
<ubudog> be right back
<pleia2> going to see if I can round up quorum :)
<ozzie_> is duanedesign here?
<ubudog> hi
<pleia2> still trying, but we might have to reschedule
<dmizer> thank you pleia2.
<Technoviking> hola
<Yasumoto_> Thanks pleia2 :)
 * greg-g waves
 * dmizer waves
<ozzie_> Just give us membership and we'll be happy
<dmizer> heh.
<fader_> ozzie_: +1 :D
<oubiwann> hehe
<pleia2> hurrah
 * beuno apologizes
<Technoviking> I for one #blamepopey
<pleia2> :)
<ubudog> pleia2: are you the "membership person"?
<pleia2> ubudog: I'm a member of the americas membership board, yes :)
<ubudog> ok, cool
<pleia2> we've got quorum now, will start momentarily
<pleia2> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 17:15. The chair is pleia2.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<greg-g> Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Review Board for the
<greg-g> Americas meeting for March 11th. The wiki page for the Review Board is
<greg-g> available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/Americas
<greg-g> We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting. If we are unable to make it through the entire list due to time constraints, then at the next meeting we will pick up where we left off.
<greg-g> The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
<greg-g> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
<greg-g> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
<greg-g> When the board is ready to vote, they will publicly vote in the channel with either +1, 0, or -1 (for membership, abstain, and against membership, respectively). If the sum of those numbers is positive, then the applicant is now an official Ubuntu member! (feel free congratulate them!)
<greg-g> Now, with any further ado, lets get started with the first applicant...
<pleia2> doesn't look like Flare183 is here
<pleia2> oubiwann: you here?
<oubiwann> yup
<pleia2> [TOPIC] oubiwann membership
<MootBot> New Topic:  oubiwann membership
<oubiwann> here's my wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Oubiwann
<oubiwann> my name is Duncan McGreggor
<oubiwann> long-time open source developer, current employee of Canonical
<oubiwann> I currently work with the platform team as a project manager
<oubiwann> prior to this, I was a software engineer, putting my Twisted and Python background to use ;-)
 * oubiwann waves at asac 
<pleia2> oubiwann: great work! how long would you say you've been involved with Ubuntu directly?
<oubiwann> as a user, since 2005
<greg-g> oubiwann: I see you're in Denver (right?) Do you have much interaction with the System76 or Colorado LoCo?
 * greg-g requests you ignore his bad grammar
<oubiwann> I've been a member of the LoCo, but I've never actually been to a meeting :-/
<oubiwann> (I think I joined around the same time I created  my LP account)
<greg-g> oubiwann: do they have many meetings? Or do people mostly meet up at other LUG type events?
<oubiwann> I used to see emails about release parties and Ubuntu install fests, but I haven't gotten one of those in a whole
<oubiwann> *while
<oubiwann> they might not be doing them any more
<greg-g> yeah, they tend to go in spurts
<greg-g> "they" being LoCos :)
<oubiwann> hehe
<pleia2> [VOTE] oubiwann membership
<MootBot> Please vote on:  oubiwann membership.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<Technoviking> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Technoviking. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<pleia2> your work speaks for itself :)
<pleia2> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<greg-g> +1 # keep rocking it
<MootBot> +1 received from greg-g. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<ubudog> +1
<beuno> +1  (hi oubiwann!)
<MootBot> +1 received from ubudog. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<MootBot> +1 received from beuno. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<pleia2> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<pleia2> (and please only board members vote)
<greg-g> please, only Board members should vote
<pleia2> congrats and welcome oubiwann!
<oubiwann> thanks guys!
<greg-g> congrats oubiwann !
 * oubiwann waves at beuno ;-)
<pleia2> fader_: you here?
<fader_> pleia2: Yes I am! :)
<ozzie_> good job obiwann
<pleia2> [TOPIC] fader membership
<MootBot> New Topic:  fader membership
<fader_> I'm Ronald McCollam, and my wiki page is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/fader
<fader_> I've been a Linux user since about 1995, and been increasingly involved with the community as time goes on.  I've been using and evangelizing Ubuntu for around 5 years now.
<ubudog> congrats!
<fader_> I am currently a Canonical employee on the QA team and do testing on a range of hardware.  Outside of work, I also do ad-hoc testing, ISO testing, and general support on IRC and a few online and real-world fora.
<fader_> I'm trying to develop more programming skills as well in order to make software as well as use it, but it's slow going for my poor old brain :)
<pleia2> fader_: I know mythbuntu is on the "todo wishlist" but do you have any idea how you'd like to contribute there?
<pleia2> (it's one of my favorite projects too, so I had to ask :))
<fader_> pleia2: My plans are a little vague, to be honest.  I'd love to try to help improve its stability and features but that's currently beyond my abilities.  So for the time being it's just testing and bug reporting.
<fader_> I use it all the time, so I'm definitely motivated to help :)
<pleia2> I'm sure they appreciate that
<Daviey> fader_: well feel free to jump in, the water is lovely
<greg-g> fader_: you live near Boston, do you know doctormo and the other MA loco people?
<beuno> # user support on Craigslist
<fader_> Daviey: :D  I'll give it a shot.
<beuno> that's a first!
<beuno> I didn't know there was such a thing
<fader_> greg-g: I met them recently.  Until recently I lived a little too far out to make it to many loco events, but I recently moved and hope to go more frequently.
<beuno> fader_, what's that group like?
<fader_> I made it to the release party for karmic though and got to meet doctormo :)
<greg-g> fader_: good deal :)
<fader_> beuno: It's a pretty decent group of people... it's not as high-traffic as the ubuntu forums though, which I think have taken a lot of its traffic in the last couple of years
<fader_> (not that that is a bad thing! ;) )
<beuno> it's amazing how the ubuntu community has everything covered
 * Nafallo mumbles about the power for the forums servers...
<fader_> beuno: Indeed... usually I find answers to my questions before I can even ask them anywhere else!
<fader_> Nafallo: shh!  Go to sleep, it's past your bedtime!
<beuno> Nafallo, about all the power they use?  :)
<pleia2> hehe
<oubiwann> if it's permissible, I'd like to say that I've recently worked with fader_ closely on a project for Google + Canonical, and he was phenomenal: dedicated and committed; throughly and deeply invested in Ubuntu and its continued quest for quality
<pleia2> thanks oubiwann!
 * fader_ slips oubiwann $5.
 * oubiwann chuckles
<pleia2> [VOTE] fader membership
<MootBot> Please vote on:  fader membership.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<pleia2> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
 * Nafallo is in fact in bed, but thought he'd give fader a big thumbs up for the membership before sleeping :-)
<greg-g> +1
<Technoviking> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from greg-g. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<MootBot> +1 received from Technoviking. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<beuno> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from beuno. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<pleia2> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<pleia2> congrats and welcome, fader_! :)
<fader_> \o/
<greg-g> congrats fader_ !
<fader_> Thanks all!
<oubiwann> fader_: welcome!
<ubudog> congrats fader!
<pleia2> [TOPIC] Yasumoto membership
<MootBot> New Topic:  Yasumoto membership
<Yasumoto_> Hello guys, I'm Joe Smith, a member of the Ubuntu California team. I've been active in planning and running events since 2007, and have had a blast :) At SCaLE8x in February, I was convinced that it's alright to spend some of my "Open Source Time" on applying for membership rather than on LoCo stuff. http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Yasumoto
<Yasumoto_> I love the Ubuntu community, and have spent time working on Bug Triage for various compnonents, IRC and Forum help, and a lot of LoCo stuff, which I've focused on to do something a little different from my schoolwork.
<greg-g> Yasumoto_: how are loco events going for CA right now?
<Yasumoto_> We just exhibited at the SoCal Linux Expo on February19th-21st, where we held the first Ubucon of the year :)
<rww> I've worked with Yasumoto for about a year as part of the California LoCo team. He's absolutely invaluable for our event planning. His attitude is awesome, he's a huge asset to our team, and I'm happy he finally got around to applying, because he totally deserves membership :)
<pleia2> thanks rww!
<beuno> Yasumoto_, what drew you to the Ubuntu community?
<Yasumoto_> We're also planning our events for the Global Jam, being a big state, we need to coordinate a few events scattered throughout
<greg-g> Yasumoto_: aweome
<Yasumoto_> beuno: How inclusive it is. I love being able to talk to so many people; to work together to make th world better :)
<pleia2> [VOTE] Yasumoto membership
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Yasumoto membership.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<pleia2> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<Technoviking> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Technoviking. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<beuno> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from beuno. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<greg-g> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from greg-g. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<pleia2> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<ubudog> congrats!
<pleia2> Yasumoto_: looking forward to seeing you keep making the US-CA loco rock \o/
<fader_> Yasumoto_: Congrats!
<Yasumoto_> Thanks everyone! :)
<greg-g> congrats Yasumoto_ !
<rww> Yasumoto_: congrats :)
 * oubiwann high-fives Yasumoto_ 
<pleia2> dmizer: you here?
<dmizer> i am.
<pleia2> [TOPIC] dmizer membership
<MootBot> New Topic:  dmizer membership
<dmizer> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/dmizer
<dmizer> Hello all! I've been using Ubuntu since Hoary (Ubuntu has come SO far). I have been a member of the Ubuntuforum community since March of 2006. I have been a moderator of the Ubuntuforum staff since July of 2008.
<dmizer> Most of my contribution effort is focused on the forum, but I would like to start participating in the Japan loco now that my Japanese ability is good enough to allow me to participate. I would also like to expand my presence professionally upon finishing my LPIC1 and LPIC2 exams.
<beuno> dmizer, you have overwhelming support!
<dmizer> :)
<Technoviking> dmizer: how big is the Japan loco?
<beuno> I'm impressed, you've done a lot of hard work
<dmizer> it's huge in Tokyo, but that's pretty far for me.
<dmizer> they also have regular mettings on IRC
<greg-g> cool
 * Technoviking is waiting for UDS-Tokyo:)
<dmizer> ha!
<beuno> dmizer, what do you think Ubuntu lacks the most today?
<beuno> Technoviking, that makes 2 of us!
<dmizer> bueno: as unfortunate as it is, i think there is work to be done with regard to hardware support, particularly in areas like wireless and printer support.
<ozzie_> good answer
<pleia2> I assume this comes from still seeing a lot of hardware support questions on the forums?
<dmizer> indeed it does. as well as personal support on real machines.
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> [VOTE] dmizer membership
<MootBot> Please vote on:  dmizer membership.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<greg-g> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from greg-g. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<pleia2> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<ibuclaw> go dmizer :)
<beuno> +1   I admire all the work you've done!
<MootBot> +1 received from beuno. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<Iowan> Part of the dmizer yea-team... Forums are certainly a better place with his How-To's and personal-touch guidance (posts)! Even his signature is packed with useful information!
<boredandblogging> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from boredandblogging. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<pleia2> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<ubudog> congrats!
<dmizer> thank you both Iowan and ibuclaw
<pleia2> congrats and welcome dmizer! :)
<persia> dmizer: Just as a side note, we don't mind English in our meetings (if you don't mind Japanese), if you're on IRC on Tuesday nights.
<Technoviking> dmizer has my full support, but I should abstain since I'm on the forums also
<greg-g> congrats dmizer !
<Iowan> Yea!
<dmizer> thanks for the heads up persia!
<pleia2> [TOPIC] ubudog membership
<MootBot> New Topic:  ubudog membership
<oubiwann> dmizer: horray!
<fader_> dmizer: Congratulations!
<ibuclaw> congrats dmizer
<dmizer> \o/
<Technoviking> congrat dmizer you rock
<ubudog> hello, I am Michael.  I currently live in North Carolina and have been using Ubuntu for three and a half years now.  Wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubudog
<pleia2> ubudog: do you have a link to your forum profile?
<ubudog> just a minute....
<ubudog> here it is: http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=739457
<ubudog> I am deeply involved with the forums and enjoy helping as many people as possible
<ubudog> I would like to help make Ubuntu more well known and used around the world, it has great potential.
<pleia2> ubudog: there is a really great loco team in north carolina, involved with them at all?
<beuno> ubudog, you say you developed a few apps?
<beuno> I can't seem to find any of them
<ubudog> Thinking about it, have visited their site, I will join in in the next meeting
<ubudog> Yes, I have developed a few apps (still in progress) and they are on launchpad
<beuno> ubudog, URLs?
<ubudog> this is the only one I have on launchpad:https://launchpad.net/flashcards
<ubudog> Still working on it]
<ubudog> using Python
<ubudog> just started to use launchpad for my programs... it is nice
<beuno> ubudog, so in what ways have you contributed to Ubuntu?
<greg-g> I don't see any branches, am I missing something?
<ubudog> yes, sorry,  I have just recently started using launchpad
<greg-g> gotcha
<ubudog> flashcards1.0 is on there, but no download files yet
<ubudog> actually should have it finished by tomorrow :)
<pleia2> ubudog: I think your forum involvement is great, but I'd really like to see some more progress in getting involved with the loco and your application development for ubuntu
<beuno> ubudog, support from existing members of the community is also important
<ubudog> Some of them might be here - I have a lot of friends on ubuntuforums
<pleia2> one of your future goals is reaching more people with Ubuntu, and that's what locos are all about :)
<ubudog> yes, I will go to the next meeting for the North Carolina Team
<ubudog> see if I can join in...
<greg-g> They are pretty welcoming :)
<Technoviking> ubudog: You have a good start, but I would like to see more
<ubudog> yeah, I am on their channel now
<greg-g> ubudog: what Technoviking said, a bit more involvement would be good in the future. But I like your enthusiasm and hope to see you up for membership again
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-03-12
<ubudog> thanks
<Technoviking> Please get invloved in the loco, and get some of people from the forums to show support for you on your wiki or during the meeting
<ubudog> all right
<Technoviking> and please try back in a few month
<ubudog> ok
<pleia2> ozzie_: you here?
<ozzie_> yes
<pleia2> [TOPIC] ozzie_ membership
<MootBot> New Topic:  ozzie_ membership
<greg-g> please introduce yourself
<ozzie_> My name is Ron McNeill and my URL is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/theozzlives
<pleia2> ozzie_: what kind of projects is the Oklahoma LoCo up to?
<ozzie_> I've been evangelizing Ubuntu since oct 2007 when I discovered it. Shareing my knowledge of this OS since Nov 2007. I encorage my schoolmates, friends, and customers to at least try the CD
<ozzie_> I'm a member of the LoCo and am trying to whip OKC into shape
<ozzie_> plea2 in OKC not much, I plan to change that
<pleia2> that would be great
<ozzie_> I've also been involved in Alpha testing since 8.10
<greg-g> ozzie_: do you re-sell System76 laptops? I see an image from them on your business website.
<ozzie_> My vision is to setup booths at the state fair and techno fairs
<ozzie_> that was just to say I work on laptops
<greg-g> ah, I see.
<ozzie_> I do build Ubuntu machines
<greg-g> ozzie_: I'd like to see a bit more involvement with the OKC loco in the future
<pleia2> ozzie_: I'd really like to see you work more on getting OKC going, maybe host a few events, take some pictures :)
<ozzie_> it is gonna happen
<pleia2> and getting testimonals from folks you work with in the community would be great
<greg-g> testimonials are really helpful
<ozzie_> DuaneDesign was supposed to be here
<pleia2> you can ask people to add their testimonals to your wiki page if they can't make the meeting
<ozzie_> he said he'd be here
<greg-g> Get a bit more involvement and some testimonials and I'd like to see you apply for membership in the future, ozzie_
<greg-g> :(
<greg-g> Thanks for coming everyone.
<greg-g> And congrats to all the new members!
<fader_> Thanks everyone :D
<pleia2> congrats new members!
<pleia2> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 18:17.
<oubiwann> thanks, guys!
<Technoviking> Yes, please come back in a few months with more work and testimonals and let us know how thing are joing with the OK loco
<dmizer> thank you all very much.
<Emzzzz> http://imggmi.info/DSC-1268362257.jpg/ do my tits look big?
<pitti> o/
<jiboumans> \o
<slangasek> moin
<Riddell> hi
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is slangasek.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2010-03-12
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2010-03-12
 * Riddell may not be able to stay whole time but ScottK will be here too
 * marjo waves
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Actions from previous meetings
<MootBot> New Topic:  Actions from previous meetings
<slangasek>   * QA Team to retest Kubuntu desktop after ubiquity uploads
<slangasek>   * slangasek to record server-lucid-ec2-ebsroot work items related to ISO testing integration
<ScottK> o/
<slangasek>   * ScottK, slangasek to review python sync/merge candidates ~Mar 12
<slangasek>   * pitti to follow up on bug #520589
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 520589 in network-manager "Network manager icon does not appear in notification panel at startup" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/520589
<slangasek>   * slangasek to follow up on bug #517300 with asac/ogra
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 517300 in likewise-open "[armel] likewise-open needs porting to ARM" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/517300
<slangasek> my items are all still outstanding, I'm afraid
<pitti> likewise-open> upstream replied, they'll incorporate our patch
<ogra> slangasek, #517300 is taken by upstream now
<marjo>  * QA Team to retest Kubuntu desktop after ubiquity uploads
<marjo> Ara has put Ubiquity 2.1.35 in the pairwise tracker [1] to give it a go before the start of next week.
<marjo> Next week we will be testing Lucid Beta 1 and it is very important that Ubiquity is in good shape before the release team starts posting candidate images in the ISO tracker.
<marjo> If you have a VM machine and around 30 spare minutes, please, pick a
<marjo> test case and help us having a promising Beta 1 release.
<marjo> [1] http://pairwise.qa.ubuntu.com/
<ogra> was a bit tricky to find the responsible person :)
<slangasek> marjo: ok, great - has there been a call for testing as well?  looks like there's been one test result so far, for Ubuntu desktop instead of Kubuntu... :)
<slangasek> ogra, pitti: ack, thanks!
<marjo> yes, email went out
<slangasek> pitti: have you looked at bug #520589?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 520589 in network-manager "Network manager icon does not appear in notification panel at startup" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/520589
<pitti> slangasek: not personally, but chrisccoulson is on it now
<slangasek> ok
<fader_> pitti, slangasek: yesterday afternoon we think we might have discovered some interesting info about that bug
<pitti> (delegation)
<fader_> I'll make sure it's in the bug report if it isn't already
<pitti> fader_: thanks, appreciated
<pitti> chris also has an outstanding question with a test, which needs to be done
<cr3> fader_: /etc/network/interfaces, right?
<fader_> cr3: Correct; pitti: ^^ this is in the bug report already, from alexmoldovan
<fader_> pitti: ack
<cr3> fader_: this is strange though, because nm has always behaved that way as far as I know and the bug was reported by someone outside of certification
<slangasek> [TOPIC] QA Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Team
<marjo>  * Hardware testing
<marjo> Automated Testing Results
<marjo> http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<marjo> Netbook:
<marjo> passed: 12 (92%) failed: 1 (8%) untested: 0 (0%)
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<marjo> Laptop:
<marjo> passed: 29 (100%) failed: 0 (0%) untested: 0 (0%)
<marjo> Server:
<marjo> passed: 57 (98%) failed: 0 (0%) untested: 1 (2%)
<marjo> Desktop:
<marjo> passed: 12 (100%) failed: 0 (0%) untested: 0 (0%)
<marjo> Manual Testing Results
<marjo> http://people.canonical.com/~fader/milestones/lucid/alpha3.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~fader/milestones/lucid/alpha3.html
<marjo> 7 passed with no bugs
<marjo> 12 failures, 7 of those are the networkmanager issue and now believed to be specific to test environment
<marjo>  * alpha-3 test report
<slangasek> bug #532983 - that looks new
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 532983 in linux "Webcam doesn't work on HP Mini 1000" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/532983
<marjo> #527828 | kubuntu oem-config 'No valid steps.'
<marjo> ubiquity (Ubuntu)                      | Undecided | New
<marjo> #528346 | Impossible to select in wich disk install to (resize)
<marjo> ubiquity (Ubuntu)                      | Undecided | New
<marjo> Won't be fixed for lucid, according to cjwatson
<marjo> #528331 | [Lucid Kubuntu] Ubiquity crashes in PartMan.py when choosing manual partitioning and creating new partition - NameError: global name 'partman' is not defined
<marjo> ubiquity (Ubuntu)                      | Undecided | New
<marjo> #527972 | [Lucid Alpha 3] usb-creator.exe does not accept ISO selection on Windows XP system
<marjo> usb-creator (Ubuntu)                   | Undecided | New
<marjo> ev investigating
<marjo> #527870 | karmic -> lucid CDROM only upgrade fails
<marjo> libsdl1.2 (Ubuntu)                     | Undecided | New
<marjo> update-manager (Ubuntu)                | Undecided | New
<marjo> libsdl1.2 (Ubuntu Lucid)               | Undecided | New
<cjwatson> (this is an example of iso-testing bugs including things that are in no way release-critical, BTW)
<marjo> update-manager (Ubuntu Lucid)          | Undecided | New
<marjo> mvo investigating
<slangasek> yes, though we should have the ability to filter tho iso-testing bugs by severity, I think?
<slangasek> (though, we should probably make sure we're *setting* the severity of these bugs, not leaving them as undecided)
<cjwatson> marjo: hmm, I duped a couple of those bugs, maybe after you trawled them for your report
<cjwatson> 527828 and 528331 have been fixed
<marjo> slangasek: yes, that's the proper approach
<marjo> cjwatson: thx!
<marjo> cjwatson: yes, that's probably the case
<marjo>  * Specs Status
<marjo> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-platform-qa-ubuntu-10.04-beta-1.html
<marjo>  * UbuntuSpec:lucid-qa-checkbox-desktop-experience-tests
<marjo> Work items lucid-beta-1: All WIs on track for beta-1
<marjo> [cr3] Extract CPU- and I/O-data provided by bootchart: INPROGRESS
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-platform-qa-ubuntu-10.04-beta-1.html
<marjo> [cr3] Improve test reporting for boot times: INPROGRESS
<davmor2> marjo, slangasek kubuntu 64bit didn't upgrade ubiquity
<marjo>  * UbuntuSpec:qa-lucid-improve-server-testcases
<marjo> Reassigned to hggdh2 from ara; all WIs on track for beta-1
<marjo> Work items:
<marjo> [hggdh2] Update samba test case in the ISO tracker: DONE
<marjo> [hggdh2] Update Lamp test case in the ISO tracker: INPROGRESS
<marjo> Determine which test cases are required for the ISO tracker: TODO
<marjo> Write a new test case for a no-network interface install: TODO
<marjo> Write a new test case for a non internet connection install: TODO
<marjo> Write a new test case for a Kickseed install: TODO
<marjo> Write a new test case for a repair system install: TODO
<marjo>  * Bug:530380: checkbox writes to .cache/checkbox/submission before submission completes - fixed, but not released
<marjo> slangasek: that's all from QA team
<slangasek> marjo: on the hw testing, it seems that there are several failures with alpha 3 that aren't represented on the current report because the hardware hasn't been retested; do we need to look at those any more closely?
<slangasek> three are marked "bugs to be filed", but I don't know the date of that comment
<marjo> slangasek: yes; some testing is still in progress
<fader_> slangasek: The comment is from yesterday, so we intend to get those filed today
<marjo> so, we'll clean up accordingly
<marjo> when all is done
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> should bug #532983 and bug #531831 be targeted to lucid?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 532983 in linux "Webcam doesn't work on HP Mini 1000" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/532983
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 531831 in rosetta "Not all pluralforms displayed on language page" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/531831
<slangasek> er
<slangasek> bug #538131
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 538131 in linux "Webcam doesn't work on Sylvania MS-N011" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/538131
<slangasek> and triaged to an importance other than "undecided"
<slangasek> davmor2: to a first approximation, I would expect kubuntu+ubiquity to work the same on amd64 and i386; is someone working on testing i386?
<davmor2> slangasek: pass bladernr_ are you?
<fader_> slangasek: targeted; I'll make sure they get appropriate importances
<Riddell> slangasek: kubuntu+ubiquity was tested yesterday, there's a couple of superficial but important issues to fix, otherwise works fine
<bladernr_> slangasek:  I am
<slangasek> fader_: and should they also be targeted to lucid?
<slangasek> bladernr_: cheers
<fader_> slangasek: Just targeted them
<slangasek> Riddell: ah, ok - I went looking at the pairwise report yesterday, and people were still saying it didn't work, glad to have better results now :)
<bladernr_> slangasek:  I was trying 64bit earlier, but the 64bit isos failed to build, so no new ubiquity.  32bit seems fine though so far.
<cjwatson> we had a few "breaks the world" type bugs that generated lots of reports each
<bladernr_> slangasek:  just finished re-syncing a moment ago so I'll be back on it in a few
<slangasek> ok, that's it from me on QA as well - anyone else have questions?
<marjo> slangasek: thx
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Server Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server Team
<jiboumans> morning; i'm standing in for ttx today
<jiboumans> Server team release status: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<slangasek> marjo, fader_: thank you
<slangasek> jiboumans: hello
<jiboumans> Server blueprints with < 90% completion:
<jiboumans> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-server-ubuntu-10.04-beta-1.html
<slangasek> [LINK]
<jiboumans> * server-lucid-ec2-ebsroot 55% Remaining work is about automating release procedure
<jiboumans> * server-lucid-eucalyptus-merging-and-packaging 57% On track, a couple beta1-targeted bugs left
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-server-ubuntu-10.04-beta-1.html
<jiboumans> * server-lucid-papercuts 66% On track (one WI per week)
<MootBot> LINK received:
<jiboumans> * server-lucid-uec-testing 80% On track. Most WI involve testing B1 candidate
<jiboumans> * server-lucid-daily-vcs 85% on track
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<jiboumans> All work items on track; trend line looks higher due to targets of opportunity in the puppet spec; we're trying to get upstream to fix as many tests as possible.
<jiboumans> FFe will be requested for:
<jiboumans> Â Â * Bug:519513: UEC upgrade from 9.10 karmic to Lucid fails
<jiboumans> Â Â * Bug:536829: package eucalyptus-cc 1.6.2-0ubuntu12 failed to install/upgrade:
<jiboumans>   * Bug:534412: VNET_PRIVINTERFACE not set correctly in a multi-network install (kirkland)
<jiboumans> The first 2 expect to be tackled in the next 2 weeks, where our focus is on Eucalyptus fixes
<jiboumans> Critical bugs for server, all targeted beta1/critical:
<jiboumans> Â Â * Bug:527208: ec2 instance fails boot, no console output on c1.xlarge (Kernel)
<jiboumans>   Pushed from Alpha3, to Beta1, now to Beta2
<jiboumans>   * Bug:531494: upstart does not run cloud-init job (Foundations)
<jiboumans>   Unassigned, retargeted to Beta2
<jiboumans> I noticed some activity on the latter in the last half hour, but haven't been able to process that
<ScottK> ~ server team related, I'm getting ready to upload clamav 0.96 rc1.  Just waiting on some final testing.  FFe is approved.
<cjwatson> jiboumans: the activity was just to push it to beta-2, and nag for more information
<jiboumans> cjwatson: ack; we'll get to it asap as it's a release blocker for us
<jiboumans> the other being the kernel bug mentioned above for cloud images
<jiboumans> slangasek: that's actually all for server team updates from us. Any questions?
<slangasek> 519513 is targeted to beta-1, but you say it'll be tackled "in the next two weeks" - should the milestone be moved?
<slangasek> likewise for 536829
<jiboumans> slangasek: no, the target is beta1 still. Failing that we have an onsite eucalyptus sprint the week after, hence 'no later than 2 weeks from now'
<jiboumans> that should only happen if we can't fix it without their direct help
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> no other questions here; anyone else?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Mobile Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mobile Team
<slangasek> jiboumans: thanks
<slangasek> asac: hi
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<ogra> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile-ubuntu-10.04-beta-1.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile-ubuntu-10.04-beta-1.html
 * ogra heree for mobile today
<ogra> so thumb2 proting is ongoing but in good progress
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<ogra> arm found a fix for the OO.o bug for us
<ogra> the two specs that make the chart look bad should be implemented as soon as the FFe's and MIRs are fully processed
<ogra> sadly no progress on the qemu issue, i'm still investigating there
<slangasek> why is that one FFe bug marked "fix committed"?  that doesn't make sense...
<ogra> we had some kernel regressions that are being sorted atm (suspend/resume on imx mostly)
 * ogra checks ...
<ogra> hmm, i have to ask asac for that
<slangasek> what FFes are you waiting on other than the webservice ones (which are both approved)?
<ogra> i think its referring to the needs-packaging
<ogra> onle these
<ogra> *only
<slangasek> I don't see any "needs-packaging" on the reports?
<ogra> someone added a tag to the description
<ogra> [needs-packaging] [FFe] ubuntu-weboffice-zoho package for armel netbook
<slangasek> ok
<ogra> and asac set it to committed when the upload happened
<slangasek> no upload has happened
<slangasek> or else it was rejected..
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> i'll check that with JamieBennett and asac
<ogra> i thought it was in NEW
<ian_brasil> it is in REVU i thought
<ogra> jamie said its been uploaded
<slangasek> not to the archive, it hasn't
<slangasek> setting back to confirmed, in the meantime
<ogra> thanks
<ogra> weird
<ogra> anyway, images are in good state for beta
<slangasek> 513734 is marked "fix committed", but it seems we now have two bugs about libmad with multiple patches pending?
<ogra> both for armel ?
<slangasek> yes
<ogra> oh, yes, there is an ftbfs bug as well
<ogra> i'll make sure tehy get merged
<slangasek> well, someone also needs to make a call on which patch to apply :)
<ogra> right
<ogra> but that should happen on one bug :)
<ogra> i didnt work on it but will make sure the right people discuss
<slangasek> ok
<ogra> well, i dont have anything else
<slangasek> I'm available to sponsor uploads, if that would help Dave any - would've uploaded it already if I knew which patch to take
<ogra> i'll tell him :)
<ogra> (but i can sponsor as well indeed )
<slangasek> bug #527720 isn't listed on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid, but is targeted to beta-1 - on the radar?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 527720 in klibc "thumb2 porting issues identified: klibc uses mov.*pc" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/527720
<cjwatson> if the mobile team thinks that's correct, I encourage them to just upload
<ogra> oh, thats just an oversight, yes, its on our thumb list
<cjwatson> I didn't feel qualified to review it when I was uploading klibc the other day
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> no other questions from me; anything else no mobile?
<ogra> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/webservice-office-zoho btw
<slangasek> s/no m/on m/
<slangasek> ogra: ah, package renamed, tricky
<slangasek> ogra: should that bug be closed, then?
<ogra> just missing the MIR and seeding
<slangasek> (ought to have been closed in the changelog, I would think)
<ogra> i think the bug was also for the MIR status
<ogra> as soon as its in main it will be closed
<slangasek> there's no mention of MIR in that bug report, currently
<slangasek> I guess someone has some follow up to do :)
<ogra> heh, yeah
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Kernel Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Team
<slangasek> ogra: thanks
<ogra> :)
<slangasek> apw, ogasawara: hi
<apw> hi
<apw> Overall Kernel Team status is summarised at the first URL below, including the items called out in the agenda.  Beta-1 activity is summarised at the second URL below, with those item pushed out shown as At Risk.  The burndown chard for Beta-1 is at the third URL, and our burndown chart is at the fourth:
<apw> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<apw> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid#Milestone%20ubuntu-10.04-beta-1
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-10.04-beta-1.html
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid#Milestone%20ubuntu-10.04-beta-1
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-10.04-beta-1.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<apw> Of the pushed out Alpha-3 items three have been postponed to M, two low priority items have been further pushed out to Beta-2, and two have patches in testing.  The remaining item is in progress and should hit first thing Beta-2.
<apw> Of the Beta-1 items highlighted we are making reasonable progress most outstanding items are not release critical.  Two involve kernel changes and both of these are expect to be ready in time for the first upload of Beta-2 allowing testing before they hit they userbase.  Of the bugs called out, one is fixed in the kernels in the archive, one has a patch in testing, and one remains under investigation.
<apw> All of the lucid kernels hit the Beta-1 freeze and still look good for release.  We have just recieved a TI OMAP kernel which is now going through FFe and MIR.  The drm 2.6.33 backport is included in these kernels and testing of this is looking good.  Test reports show a number of pending issues are resolved with no additional regressions.
<apw> <eof>
<pitti> apw: ah, I actually had a question about the TI kernel (in the MIR bug)
<apw> pitti, sure.
<pitti> apw: so is that one that we want to officially (LTS-)support? Tim made it sound a bit like a "demo"
<apw> ahh yes, i'll get with rtg and get you an answer, thanks for the tickle
<pitti> if we want to officially support it, then of course there's no question about the MIR
<apw> we are erring to only supporting the non-core kernels for 18 months, but that needs to be codified
<pitti> but ARM variants pile up, and I was unsure whether this should actually stay in universe
<apw> pitti, ack ... i don't have an answer for you at this moemnt but yes we need a formal statement of what we support and for how long
<slangasek> apw: which of those three bugs is fixed in the archive?  All three were showing as open last night when I prepared the agenda
<ScottK> pitti: Unless there's community capability to maintain this I'm not aware of, I don't think it ought to be in Universe.
<apw> and then we can use that as a basis for deciding where they go
<pitti> ScottK: right, or partner or whatnot
<pitti> but a 5 year security support commitment for a demo kernel sounds excessive
<ScottK> pitti: Yes.
<ScottK> pitti: I didn't think armel was LTS?
<pitti> (note, I'm not saying it's a demo kernel -- that's what I want to find out about)
<ScottK> Oh, that was mobile
<apw> pitti, if its ok i'll take it off line and get you a formal response, but i think we intend to not LTS any of the armel, but use 18 month support for them
<pitti> ScottK: oh, I don't know? apw?
<slangasek> pitti: none of the ARM images are LTS-supported; though we would need the kernel package in main to build images for it at all (d-i build-dep)
<pitti> apw: ok
<apw> slangasek, that was what i thought, that CD == must be in main
<pitti> alright, so sounds like the MIR is a no-brainer then
<slangasek> apw: not CD generally, but a) that's how the *Ubuntu* CDs are built, b) kernels are special :)
<apw> slangasek, the KVM bug is the one which is closed, the kernel in beta-1 has the patches out and so is 'fixed'
<apw> we also know what the fix is so when the cve is reapplied it should not recur
<slangasek> apw: btw, the "official" word on arm support is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidLynx/ReleaseManifest
<apw> slangasek, thanks
<slangasek> (... except for the part where it's not yet updated to say netbook instead of desktop :P)
<slangasek> no other questions here; anything else on kernel?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Desktop Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Team
<slangasek> apw: thanks
<slangasek> pitti: hi
<pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<pitti> == Beta-1 WIs ==
<pitti> - Adding some missing settings to gdmsetup is a target of opportunity, and might slip to beta-2 or be dropped at all;
<pitti> - Other specs are mostly done, just a few cleanup/polish things left on each
<pitti> - desktop-lucid-startup-speed: all code changes from desktop team are in; remaining is a delay of the U1 daemon (target of opportunity, OLS team), and an improvement of netbook-launcher-efl (target of opportunity, mobile team, moved to beta-2)
<pitti> - desktop-lucid-new-firefox-support-model: Remaining one for Beta-1 is to identify extensions to be kept in archive, not bound by beta-1 freeze
<pitti> - lucid-duplicated-packages: What remains is dropping db4.7 and tcl8.4; moved to beta-2, and targets of opportunity; still needs some discussion whether it's worth it
<pitti> - desktop-lucid-dx-integration: all code changes landed; what's left is test plan, better apport hook, and D-Bus API documentation
<pitti> == Bug front ==
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<pitti> We did not get a lot of RC bugs fixed recently yet, there was still a lot of feature/integration/other bug fixes work to do.
<pitti> e'll fully concentrate on bug fixing from now on (except for Bryce, who got tasked with yet another new feature from high above). Seb is currently selecting bugs which are not RC, but which we really want to fix for lucid to improve the experience.
<pitti> imagine a "W" in front of the last sentence
<pitti> [EOR]
<pitti> oh, btw, there's a branch of Robert's for gdmsetup to allow you to disable the startup sound
<pitti> that's one of the most wanted things
<pitti> we'll get the FFE bug set up ASAP
<slangasek> pitti: hmm, bug #518045 deferred - should I go ahead and take that one, if Bryce is busy?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 518045 in x11-apps "Prompting due to modified Xedit conffile that was not modified by the user" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/518045
<slangasek> will be a fairly common blemish on people's upgrade testing, otherwise
<pitti> slangasek: that would be highly appreciated, of course
<ScottK> pitti: I'll be doing Kubuntu when you're ready ....
<slangasek> taken
<pitti> cheers
<pitti> ScottK: I am from my side, unless more questions arise (but I can answer them later, too)
<slangasek> pitti: I'm concerned about bug #512615
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 512615 in firefox "fonts are incorrectly rendered due to not using system cairo" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/512615
<ScottK> The main concern for Kubuntu is the new branding.
<ScottK> We're expecting drafts on Monday.
<cjwatson> those won't be in the beta then ...
<cjwatson> at least not entirely
<slangasek> pitti: I haven't checked the status in a few days, but the last I knew was that a fix was possible today, but there was no guarantee it wouldn't be un-done later by an upstream update bumping the library prereqs
<pitti> slangasek: due to how firefox needs to be packaged these days there's not a lot we can do about it unfortunately :(
<ScottK> Made lots of progress on the installer this week and got KDE Firefox integration in.
<ScottK> doko is looking at ia64 (qt4-x11 ICE).
<ScottK> I think that's it.
<pitti> ScottK: (we need to use the firefox-bundled cairo now)
<slangasek> pitti: we could at least build against system cairo now, so that I don't go blind unnecessarily between now and release
<pitti> slangasek: oh, does it look that bad for you?
<Riddell> Couple of high priority if superficial issues for Ubiquity before beta 1, bug 538142 and bug 538147
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 538142 in ubiquity "kconfig permissions errors starting kubuntu ubiquity" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/538142
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 538147 in ubiquity "progressDialog does not update" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/538147
<slangasek> pitti: all my text is rainbow striped, it's horrible
<jdstrand> slangasek: indeed
<pitti> Riddell, ScottK: are you guys currently waiting on MIRs? there was a huge catch-up this week, but not sure we got everythign you are waiting for
<pitti> slangasek: ok, I'll check that with asac/Chrsi
<Riddell> pitti: yes I think we're good for those
<pitti> Chris, too
<cjwatson> Riddell: are those ones you and your team expect to be working on, or do you need us to take them?
<cjwatson> I'm never quite sure what the expectations for Kubuntu installer bugs you file are
<Riddell> cjwatson: I expect to work on them with shtylman
<slangasek> I'm not exactly happy with the options, but in this case I would definitely say that I'd rather have the bug fixed now for release even if we know there's a risk we'll have to regress later
<slangasek> (and anyway, we might find a better solution between now and release)
<asac> back
<cjwatson> Riddell: ok, thanks
<asac> we should use the system cairo?
<asac> hmm. lag
<asac> so i guess i am not here
<slangasek> asac: using the system cairo as long as we can would suppress this bug, at least...
<cjwatson> asac: we see you
<pitti> slangasek: right, discussing with the ff gurus
<asac> oh ... ok lets hope connection doesnt go down
<asac> slangasek: we cant go for system cairo
<asac> unless you want us to roll out new upstream releases together with firefox security updates
<slangasek> ScottK: who's responsible for the Kubuntu branding drafts, is there an action item there to make sure this is done in plenty of time for beta-2?
<asac> we have to live with the font rendering bug or fix it (i assume thats the bug that triggered it)
<ScottK> slangasek: The design team is working on them.
<jdstrand> maybe we can use the system cairo to buy us some time and upstream can get/enable that patch
<asac> jdstrand: buy us time?
<ScottK> slangasek: I know Edubuntu has issues too.
<slangasek> asac: if we hit a point where the system cairo is too old for the new firefox, then we switch to the bundled cairo and eat the regression <shrug>
<asac> if we release with system-cairo its really scary to switch to in-source cairo in SRU/security
<asac> whatever we go for we should have from the beginning
<mdeslaur> why not just include the lcd-filtering patch?
<jdstrand> asac: I thought I remembered that upstream was still deciding on what to do, and that the decision wouldn't be made in time for lucid. if we use system cairo until they figure that out, our users won't notice
<asac> slangasek: right. we know abut the font rendering regression. but we dont know what other regressions
<asac> switching to in-source cairo in stable updates really feels bad
<jdstrand> rainbow fonts feel worse :P
<slangasek> asac: "there might be other regressions" is mushy - there might be regressions *anyway* if we stick with bundled cairo
<mdeslaur> asac, slangasek: why not just include the lcd-filtering patch? Is upstream _preventing_ us from including it?
<pitti> hm, including our cairo patch into the ffox source sounds like an interesting option, too
<slangasek> [ACTION] review status of branding for Kubuntu, Edubuntu next week
<MootBot> ACTION received:  review status of branding for Kubuntu, Edubuntu next week
<slangasek> mdeslaur: as in, applying the lcd-filtering patch to the bundled cairo?
<asac> slangasek: upstream does quite thorough QA on it.
<asac> they just dont see that they have a proper fix for the lcd cairo issue
<asac> we can ask them to apply the patch
<asac> in our distro, but they will say: "low quality"
<mdeslaur> slangasek: it's what I've been doing...I've got firefox in my PPA with it
<asac> becuse they didnt take it they dont want us to hav it
<slangasek> asac: I don't consider their QA sufficiently thorough when it has this glaring defect on Ubuntu
<asac> i agree with you in most points. just saying how it is and that we were forced to go this road because they bump requirements for stuff we used as system-libs in the past
<slangasek> asac: "low quality" meaning what?  Does that jeopardize the trademark agreement?
<slangasek> mdeslaur: sure, I know it's technically possible, but there are horrible issues surrounding the mozilla package and branding
<asac> and dont allow us to unpatch ;)
<asac> we can reopen this discussion with them again using this bug
<asac> anywy, to move forward, how about checking if we can get the lcd patch in our repo?
<asac> slangasek: yes
<mdeslaur> slangasek: we could always rename it "FuzzyFox"
<asac> trademark mostly, but also they generally believe that we shouldnt be on a different code base
<asac> that they test
<slangasek> mdeslaur: we could call it abrowser, or iceweasel, or any number of other things... it certainly wasn't *my* decision to kowtow to Mozilla on the trademark question :)
<asac> especially wrt to sqlite etc. where we had problems in the past because we used system
<jdstrand> asac: have they been discussing what to do or just kind of ignoring the issue?
<slangasek> asac: can I give you an action to follow up with upstream, then?
<asac> so its not that they are really wrong. for instance, there are sometimes performance boosts/drops of 20% or something with minor sqlite versions
<jdstrand> iirc, it is an oldish bug
<slangasek> asac: in this case, we have empirical evidence that they are wrong
<jdstrand> (in their bug tracker)
<asac> slangasek: ok
<asac> slangasek: right, but one ;)
<asac> they have plenty where our libs are bad ;)
<slangasek> those aren't the libs we're proposing to use system versions of
<asac> anyway, i have been fighting on this for years. and i dont see it improving
<ScottK> jdstrand: fsvo of old.  I have bugs I filed in 2000 that are still open.
<ScottK> (in that bug tracker)
<asac> just want to make the packaging reflect that and "ship the stuff they claim to be so perfect"
<slangasek> [ACTION] asac to talk to mozilla upstream about the need for system cairo in Ubuntu
<MootBot> ACTION received:  asac to talk to mozilla upstream about the need for system cairo in Ubuntu
<asac> and really hope keeping this bug not hidden will help
<slangasek> well, I don't want stuff that Mozilla claims is perfect, I want stuff that doesn't make my eyes bleed
<jdstrand> system cairo or filtering patch...
<asac> yes. we will find a way ;)
<pitti> (where the in-line filtering patch seems better FWIW)
<asac> right. most likely we will go that road
<slangasek> ok - anything else for Desktop? :)
<jdstrand> it seems very close to what they would have blessed anyway
<asac> ok thanks ... guess occupied enough time here ;)
<pitti> thanks asac
<slangasek> [TOPIC] DX Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  DX Team
<slangasek> pitti, ScottK, asac: thanks
<davidbarth> slangasek: hi
<slangasek> davidbarth: hi
<davidbarth> so quickly: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/LucidReleaseStatus as usual
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/LucidReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/LucidReleaseStatus
<davidbarth> 2 bo still not 100% for the release; gtk is now 100% deferred
<davidbarth> dx-lucid-application-indicator
<davidbarth> 2 app ports remaining: hplip (497877) and vino (497883)
<davidbarth> still working with upstreams to get the patches accepted; issue with hplip triggering a kde dependency
<slangasek> bo->bp, I guess?
<davidbarth> bp yes, sorry
<davidbarth> and me-menu, still 2 targets of opportunities with about-me and the custom-dialog
<davidbarth> this week i focused on fixing bugs like the avatar thing and some others
<slangasek> "targets of opportunity" on the default desktop are probably not going to get in for beta-1; should these be bumped to beta-2?
<davidbarth> yes, they won't go in beta-1
<davidbarth> i'll carry them over, but now the team is mostly in bug fix mode
<davidbarth> we've tightned the bug net with seb128 this week
<davidbarth> other releases this week: see the wiki link for details of version numbers and all
<davidbarth> Of note:
<davidbarth> indicator-me-0.2.5-0ubuntu1: bug fixes, hide missing options, show avatar in menu, fixes 525951
<davidbarth> indicator-session-0.2.5-0ubuntu2: left over from last week
<davidbarth> indicator-sound-0.1.3-0ubuntu1: bug fixes + mute warning
<davidbarth> notify-osd-0.9.27-0ubuntu1: bug fixes required for an upcoming nm-applet patch
<davidbarth> we're working through the list of milestoned bugs
<slangasek> sounds good
<davidbarth> there have been a couple of UIF exceptions requested by sabdfl after a design review yesterday and today; we're preparing the bugs for that
<slangasek> any questions on DX?
<slangasek> ah
<davidbarth> eh
<slangasek> ok, will look for those bugs (with trepidation :)
<davidbarth> 1 string change, and one rendering change
<slangasek> ok
<ScottK> Is DX the right team to track the artwork issues?
<davidbarth> ScottK: not really
<ScottK> OK.
<davidbarth> ScottK: happy to help if we can; but the design team is really the one producing the material
<ScottK> Do we have a design team rep that comes to the release meetings?
<davidbarth> ScottK: agateau can be assigned to the integration if that helps, for example
<ScottK> davidbarth: The current problem is not having the artwork.
<davidbarth> ScottK: i'll try to help after the meeting
<ScottK> davidbarth: OK.  For Kubuntu I know it's in progress.  Edubuntu, I don't know.
<ScottK> Thanks
<slangasek> anything else?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Foundations Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations Team
<slangasek> davidbarth: thanks
<slangasek> cjwatson: hi
<cjwatson> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-foundations-ubuntu-10.04-beta-1.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-foundations-ubuntu-10.04-beta-1.html
<cjwatson> (haven't had time to update the usual release status page this week, sorry!  this will be a QA-team-length paste ...)
<cjwatson> == Work items ==
<cjwatson> software-center ratings-and-reviews unfortunately postponed to lucid+1; we have 80%, but there are too many questions about the server side still outstanding
<cjwatson> most work items either deferred to beta-2 or postponed entirely to lucid+1; exceptions are:
<cjwatson>  * foundations-lucid-release-collaboration-with-debian: java/X (probably OK to defer these but we still need confirmation; I'm asking around)
<cjwatson>  * foundations-lucid-pre-desktop-lucid-startup-speed: console-setup (patch sent for review today, so I think this is safe for beta-1)
<cjwatson>  * foundations-lucid-supportable-binaries: most of it - postpone to beta-2?
<cjwatson>  * foundations-lucid-computer-janitor: fixes pending review
<cjwatson> == Bugs ==
<cjwatson>  * Bug:531494: cloud-init job not running in eucalyptus without ramdisk
<cjwatson>   - needs information from server team, as noted in bug
<cjwatson>  * Bug:506297: Graphical Ubuntu logo enabled on servers, no more login prompt
<cjwatson>   - fixes in ppa:scott/ppa, all bugs now believed fixed but undergoing testing
<cjwatson>  * Bug:500198: casper-md5check needs to be ported to plymouth
<cjwatson>  * Bug:506418: [lucid] live cd does not shutdown
<cjwatson>   - both done today
<cjwatson>  * Bug:432631: clean up system/per-user proxy handling
<cjwatson>   - no progress; commented with a query about deferral
<cjwatson>  * Bug:524439: console-setup: needs porting to udev/upstart
<cjwatson>   - patch sent for review today, looking good
<cjwatson>  * Bug:368060: Map of Kashmir when selecting the timezone is incorrect
<cjwatson>   - nagged Ken about this recently, no answer yet
<cjwatson>  * Bug:531697: ICE building qt4-x11 in IA64
<cjwatson>   - assigned to doko who is investigating
<cjwatson>  * Bug:529366: Regression: usb-creator-gtk doesn't work as of 0.2.16
<cjwatson>   - pushed to beta-2; there's a separate bug which is allied to the parted change, so we may have some more investigation to do here
<cjwatson>  * Bug:534293: libtommath ftbfs on all archs in lucid
<cjwatson>   - assigned to me, will look ASAP
<cjwatson>  * Bug:530632: Upgrading from 8.04 to 10.04 fails on update-initramfs
<cjwatson>   - assigned to mvo
<cjwatson>  * Bug:537262: does not terminate at computer shutdown
<cjwatson>   - Scott reassigned this so I'm suspecting that it's not a sendsigs bug after all ...
<cjwatson> == Other ==
<cjwatson> I'm worried about DVD builds; while I kicked another attempt off during the meeting in the hope of having good news (I don't yet ...), we haven't had successful builds since January, and we're going to have to push to fix this
<cjwatson> --
<slangasek> foundations-lucid-supportable-binaries generally doesn't require any uploads, so if I can squeeze it in, I'll still be working on that for beta-1
<slangasek> no other questions here - anyone else?
<cjwatson> (also, Ken did answer about the Kashmir bug, he's on it)
<cjwatson> I suspect the answer for DVD builds is "keep an eye on it over the weekend" for me :(
<slangasek> I'll be doing the same, fwiw
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Security Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security Team
<slangasek> cjwatson: thanks
<slangasek> jdstrand: hi
<jdstrand> o/
<jdstrand> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<slangasek> (dear mootbot, https is also a URL)
<jdstrand> once again, in terms of release, not much to report. we are on track
<jdstrand> I won't be here next week, so someone from the security team can fill-in for me
<slangasek> jdstrand: bug #528274 - keeping this on your team since I think you're the best ones to follow up with the ubuntuone folks on it as necessary
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 528274 in ubuntuone-client "syncdaemon should have AppArmor profile" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/528274
<slangasek> jdstrand: but I also figure if kees isn't nagging them about it, I don't need to, so :)
<jdstrand> slangasek: sure. kees submitted the profile, I reviewed the merge proposal. it is committed in their tree
<slangasek> upload scheduled? :)
<cjwatson> (DVD livefs build on i386 just succeeded!)
<jdstrand> that I don't know, but I will follow up on it
<slangasek> cjwatson: yaaaay
<slangasek> jdstrand: ok
<slangasek> anything else on security?
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<slangasek> [TOPIC] MOTU
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU
<slangasek> jdstrand: thanks
<slangasek> ScottK, sistpoty|work: hello
<jdstrand> sure :)
 * sistpoty|work waves
<ScottK> Hello.
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: Why don't you go first.
<sistpoty|work> haskell transition: good progress, however ghc6 doesn't build on armel (under investigation)
<sistpoty|work> [LINK]: http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/haskell-installability/
<MootBot> LINK received: : http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/haskell-installability/
<sistpoty|work> ocaml transition: looks as if it's almost done (haven't tracked it too close though, to be honest)
<ScottK> We also have a Ruby transition in progress.  Lucas is worried about getting it done in time.  A bunch of Ruby stuff just landed in binary New, so it'd be appreciated if that can get a quick review.
<sistpoty|work> other business: ubuntu-release delegates: please comment on [LINK]: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2010-March/030376.html
<sistpoty|work> that's it from my side
<slangasek> ack, will comment today
<sistpoty|work> thanks!
<slangasek> jdstrand: you have time for binary NEW today?
<slangasek> if not, I might have a look over the weekend
<pitti> for the Debian syncs we don't generally check them a lot anyway
<sistpoty|work> oh, I'd have a few requests for source-new that went through debian's new already, I've usually told that I'm ok if the requester can find an archive admin to do new, so... ;)
<ScottK> I've been accepting Universe packages as they hit unaccepted.
<slangasek> cjwatson: oh - is it time to point the IRC bot at the lucid queue?
<cjwatson> probably - I can do that
<slangasek> thanks
<slangasek> anything else?
<jdstrand> slangasek: yes
<slangasek> I assume that's "yes" to binary new, not to AOB? :)
<jdstrand> slangasek: I may not get to all of it, but it seems doable
<slangasek> ok, cheers
<slangasek> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:45.
<slangasek> thanks, all
<marjo> slangasek: thx!
<Keybuk> cjwatson, slangasek: so I'm not really sure what to do with plymouth atm
<pitti> thanks all
<Keybuk> I keep testing it harder, and keep finding more bugs ;)
<cjwatson> are they worse than the current bugs?
<Keybuk> so I've still got ENTER-kills-X issues
<Keybuk> and there appears to be an issue where everything's fine, except you end up on the wrong VT at the end of boot
<Keybuk> the former seems to now only affect boots where plymouth had to use text.so
<Keybuk> the latter appears to only affect boots where plymouth used the framebuffer renderer
<Keybuk> I don't know of any bugs with the drm renderer (ie. intel, nouveau, radeon)
<cjwatson> that sounds better than what we have now at least in terms of user count, but I haven't rebooted yet after upgrading from the PPA :)
<Keybuk> the enter-killing-X issue is confusing me, because I realllly thought I'd eradicated all of those
<Keybuk> I haven't really researched what bugs are open
<Keybuk> and it doesn't seem worth closing them in an upload anyway, since everyone will just reopen them again
<slangasek> I think the major bugs that are open are "autologin -> fail", "hit enter -> fail", "hit 2 -> fail", "boot w/o splash -> fail", "use nvidia -> fail"
<Keybuk> "hit 2" ?!
<slangasek> yes
<Keybuk> as in the number 2 ?! :p
<slangasek> I don't know why, it must be some magical sequence when in raw mode
<slangasek> yes
<Keybuk> one assumes so
<Keybuk> there must be some console string that X just gets totally emo about and commits suicide
<Keybuk> that happens to appear for both Enter and 2
<slangasek> the enter could equally be that X is fighting getty for the console, and getty has respawned due to a failed login, no?
<Keybuk> yes
<Keybuk> though if X is on VT7, and Plymouth has reset VT7 back into raw mode again, Enter does also kill X then
<slangasek> ok
<Keybuk> of course, now I can't replicate this enter reoccurance
<Keybuk> but I can now replicate silly vt1
<Keybuk> meh
<Keybuk> so anyway, yes, those two bugs
<Keybuk> would you prefer I uploaded plymouth as it is in the PPA now, and then worked on these two bugs to "improve" matters
<Keybuk> or wait until I've got something where people won't file the same bugs again
<jcastro> Keybuk: I have a machine with this enter problem if you need me to test something
<Keybuk> slangasek: ^ I guess it's your call ;)
<Keybuk> jcastro: is your machine running plymouth from my PPA?
<jcastro> no, stock lucid, want me to go update and try it?
<Keybuk> jcastro: sure
<jcastro> ubuntu-boot ppa or something else?
<Keybuk> ppa:scott/ppa
<jcastro> Keybuk: well, for sure it's happening less, I've tried it three times and hasn't done it yet.
<jcastro> Keybuk: is there a time-window for triggering it? I am basically trying it right after I log in.
<Keybuk> jcastro: depends, what type of graphics card do you have?
<jcastro> it's an nvidia ION1
<jcastro> which afaik is a version of the geforce 9400m
<Keybuk> are you using nouveau or nvidia-glx
<jcastro> nvidia-glx
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> you're in the danger category for that one
<Keybuk> I assume you saw my oh-so-funny text version of the splash screen?
<jcastro> yeah I think it's clever. ;)
<jcastro> however, I could get it to crash consistently before, now I'm on boot #5 and it hasn't done it yet.
<Technoviking> jcastro: weird I have a 9400 and have not had that problem
<slangasek> Keybuk: I'd prefer an upload now, even if it's only an incremental improvement
<Keybuk> slangasek: gdm and mountall are already in the queue
<Keybuk> just making the plymouth changelog a little more descriptive
<jcastro> Technoviking: I have only read about people with the problem until I upgraded the machine to lucid
<Technoviking> jcastro: I did a clean install, wonder if that made a difference
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-03-13
 * Pici yawns
<jussi01> o/
<nhandler> o/
<topyli> o/
<topyli> i think Pici is sort of present as well :)
<jussi01> SO everyone except tsimpson is here. we have quorum.
<Pici> \o
<topyli> i will chair
<topyli> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 14:01. The chair is topyli.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<nhandler> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda
<jussi01> topyli: skip the first one
<topyli> it is a non-issue
<jussi01> and tsimpson isnt here.
<nhandler> And it looks like we dropped the ball on coming up with an agreed upon definition of a core channel for the second item
<nhandler> We had a couple of proposals, but nothing was agreed upon afaik
<topyli> i think -women have decided they don't need to be core anyway. anyone here?
<Pici> Is there somewhere where we documented the proposals?
<nhandler> Pici: I can hunt them down for you after the meeting. I have them in my logs somewhere
<jussi01> pleia2: about?
<Tm_T> topyli: there's no decision about that until there's something up what _is_ core channel, and how to become one
<Tm_T> IIRC
<nhandler> topyli: I think you are correct. They were more interested in exploring if it would provide any benefits for their team iirc
<Pici> And since we couldn't tell them what a core channel was... it wasn't much use discussing.
<topyli> Tm_T, this is about -women. we can discuss core channels more generally though
<Tm_T> topyli: I think it requires that
<Pici> I agree.
<topyli> do we have opinions about the concept of 'core'?
<Tm_T> covering the fundamental bits of *ubuntu ?
<topyli> i suggest deferring this to the next meeting and discussing it on the mailing list in the mean time
<Pici> I concur.
<nhandler> topyli: Agreed. Especialy since one of the key proposals was made by tsimpson who is not present right now
<jussi01> topyli: +1, if perhaps someone puts the proposals in a mail and we can talk about it
<topyli> that too
<topyli> ok, deferring
<nhandler> I can hunt down the ones that were made a few weeks ago on IRC and send them to the list
<Pici> Sounds good.
<jussi01> topyli: want to add that as an action?
<topyli> [ACTION] topyli to start discussion about 'core channels' on mailing list
<MootBot> ACTION received:  topyli to start discussion about 'core channels' on mailing list
<topyli> talk about quick volunteering!
<jussi01> excellent.
<nhandler> So you are going to start the discussion topyli ?
<Pici> Whats next?
<topyli> nhandler, i'll send mail
<jussi01> topyli: next topic?
<topyli> hold on, i'm learning :)
<topyli> [TOPIC] technical guide for operators
<MootBot> New Topic:  technical guide for operators
<nhandler> Does someone want to talk about this in tsimpson's place ?
<topyli> this is tsimpson's idea but i think we can agree that we need this
<jussi01> we have most of that, it just needs to be dragged together.
<nhandler> jussi01: Do you have a link to where it is being worked on?
<Pici> Or is it just an idea right now?
<jussi01> I think this can be delegated somewhat, if there are any irc'ers who want to help out..
<topyli> i don't think there's a draft
<jussi01> nhandler: its just an idea.
<Pici> There are bits and peices on the wiki already, just nothing consise.
<jussi01> but there is stuff on the bots page and stuff on the op guidelines page
<nhandler> jussi01: I can start a basic guide, but I would prefer some help with it
<nhandler> freenode also has some stuff on their site we can use
<Tm_T> does this include scripts?
<persia> I'd be very glad to help review such a guide, but I don't have the information necessary to contribute to it.
<jussi01> nhandler: I think we need to pull in some of the ops/helpers on this one.
<nhandler> Tm_T: I think we should mention stuff like auto_bleh and the ChanServ xchat script
<nhandler> jussi01: +1
<jussi01> Tm_T: its should at least link to scripts
<Pici> I'd like to help... if I can find the time :/
<topyli> Tm_T, it should link to useful scripts, but we want ops to know the commands too
<jussi01> nhandler: perhaps its worth you calling for contributors on the ml?
<nhandler> jussi01: That is fine
<Tm_T> good that will be covered
<nhandler> jussi01: I'll also create a list of topics on the wiki to make it easier for people to contribute
<Pici> nhandler: great!
<nhandler> topyli: Can you give me the action?
<jussi01> so, the action then is that nhandler will write to the list and create a base wiki page.
<Tm_T> nhandler: awesome
<topyli> [ACTION] nhandler to start a wiki page on technical ops guidelines
<MootBot> ACTION received:  nhandler to start a wiki page on technical ops guidelines
<jussi01> excellent
<topyli> {TOPIC] at least one loco operator to idle in -irc, and be easily contactable
<MootBot> New Topic:  at least one loco operator to idle in -irc, and be easily contactable
<Pici> I think that some of the floodbot stuff should be documented there as well, covering the next  meeting item.
<jussi01> yeah, this was my idea
<topyli> from each loco that is :)
<Tm_T> +1 for loco presence
<topyli> i wholeheartedly support this idea
<jussi01> we often have issues finding ops from the locos, and i think we need to have a "goto" person.
<Pici> Agreed.
<nhandler> But how would we know who is representing which loco ?
<topyli> we all seem to agree. how do we get locos to do this in practice?
<jussi01> Perhaps we can work with the loco council to get the message out to loco's
<Pici> The contacts are listed on our IRC page, but I think that it might still be good to get someone to idle in -irc tooo
<Pici> nhandler: ^
<jussi01> we ask them to list a contact, their irc nick and agree that they will idle in -irc
<nhandler> And what would this person be tasked with?
<Pici> There was a list at one point of core operators that were fluent in other languages, something like that would be helpful for -irc issues too
<jussi01> the loco council is currently doing re-approvals for locos, perhaps it can be worked into that.
<jussi01> Pici: yeah, that list is fairly unmaintained, but it is still on the wiki
<jussi01> nhandler: general contact for anything irc regarding that loco
<persia> Consider accepting pairs or trios of LoCo reps from larger LoCos that may end up with wide ranges of times of activity.
<Tm_T> jussi01: then it needs maintaining, blame the locos (:)
<nhandler> Out of curiosity, do we know how many LoCos would be affected by this change? A lot of LoCos are already represented in -irc
<jussi01> persia: very good idea
<jussi01> nhandler: yes, but this gives us a list with an irc nick to go to.
<jussi01> ie. oh, we have a .fi problem, grab Tm_T
<Pici> Maybe we just need to expand on the information listed in the !irc page.
<jussi01> so the list provides us with someone to ping as a first point of call.
<Pici> Together with asking those people to idle in -irc.
<persia> Pici: You mean just add a "contact" column?
<nhandler> jussi01: It might be useful to utilize ubottu's factoids to make it easy for people to quickly find an !ubuntu-chicago op
<jussi01> Pici: thats  a good point.
<Pici> persia: We have a contact column already.
<jussi01> nhandler: that quickly becomes unmanageable.
<Pici> So why maintain a separate list if some of the information is already there.
<nhandler> jussi01: Would it become any more unmanageable than trying to maintain a list on the wiki?
<jussi01> nhandler: anyone can edit the wiki...
<nhandler> jussi01: Good point
<topyli> shall we ask for help from the loco council with this, and push it through?
<jussi01> ok, so I see 2 things here. 1 making sure the contacts on the wiki are up to date. having those contacts idle in -irc
<Pici> Neither is a great solution at the moment.  Both have their flaws.  The wiki is just text, nothing ties a particular entry to another one., and the bot factoids aren't the quickest to modify.
<topyli> idling on -irc should be a strong recommendation, but not a requirement
<jussi01> topyli: I think getting the loco council to help out, at least with advice, is a good thing
<Pici> Right. As long as we have a few contacts to go to in case of an issue.
<nhandler> It might also be good to send a list to the loco contacts ML to get their opinions
<topyli> who wants to contact them so we can further act on this in our next meeting?
<topyli> and yes, nhandler
<persia> Just keeping the contact list up-to-date in the !irc page is probably cleaner than duplicating it.
<jussi01> mind, we have had a thought with the bot devel to have the !ops calls maintained by the bot taking entries from the access lists. if that happens the bot entries thong could easily be done.
<Pici> Yes.
<nhandler> jussi01: That was what I was thinking as well.
<jussi01> yeah, and s/thong/thing
<m4v> for the spanish locos, I only see an op from -mx joining regularly, but there's a u-es-locos channel where some more join
<topyli> would be a huge improvement
<jussi01> its something we have on the radar, but we could always do with more bot contribs
<topyli> so. we should talk with the loco council
<topyli> who wants to mail them?
<jussi01> I guess best port of call now would be to mail the loco's, remind them that they need to update theier contacts, (there can be more than one), and try idle in -irc.
<jussi01> topyli: I can do that contact/mail.
<topyli> ok, that sounds good
<jussi01> are we all agreed on that?
<nhandler> I am fine with that
<topyli> yes
<Pici> Yessir
<jussi01> perfect, please make it an action topyli
<topyli> [ACTION] jussi01 to contact locos and council about updating their contacts and idling on -irc
<MootBot> ACTION received:  jussi01 to contact locos and council about updating their contacts and idling on -irc
<topyli> tsimpson's floodbot issue. can we handle it?
<jussi01> topyli: next.
<topyli> it's mainly a discussion item, and i think we need his input on it
<jussi01> yes
<jussi01> and it probably goes into afore mentioned guide
<Pici> I think that some of that will be documented on the operators page, but I'd like to hear from him the other issues he might have with them
<topyli> ikonia's long-term-problem-user policy is next
<jussi01> ikonia: about?
<Pici> Also.. we need to discuss what we're doing with the floodbot's bugs.
<jussi01> yeah, someone needs to report them.
<jussi01> whe we have a list we can then work on them
<Pici> I removed 450 (!) stale exempts ysterday.
<Pici> jussi01: Where am I reporting them?
<jussi01> Pici: LP, against our bots project for now
<jussi01> !bot
<ubottu> Hi! I'm ubottu's favorite infobot, you can search my brain yourself at http://ubottu.com/factoids.cgi - Usage info: http://ubottu.com/devel/wiki/Plugins
<Pici> !bug
<ubottu> If you find a bug in Ubuntu or any of its derivatives, please file a bug using the command Â« ubuntu-bug <package> Â» - See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs for other ways to report bugs - Bugs in/wishes for the IRC bots (not Ubuntu) can be filed at http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-bots
<Pici> :)
<jussi01> yeah, that one
<Pici> Will do
<jussi01> ok, ikonia doesnt seem to be around?
<topyli> let's discuss the problem user policy shortly. we discussed this by email, but we haven't updated the policy on the wiki afaik. we must do that
<jussi01> topyli: topic then ;)
<topyli> [TOPIC] policy on long term problem users
<MootBot> New Topic:  policy on long term problem users
<topyli> i think we decided not to allow pre-emptive bans or anything like that. that's freenode stuff
<jussi01> yes.
<jussi01> thats been in force for sometime.
<topyli> yes, but it's not written anywhere
<jussi01> we should be alerting staff.
<jussi01> topyli: apart from a few ML posts, no.
 * Pici makes a note to update !staff 
<topyli> it belongs on the operator guidelines page on the wiki
<jussi01> topyli: I think it works into our updating of the ops guidelines
<topyli> yes
<jussi01> topyli:  :D
<Pici> yes
<nhandler> +1 here
<topyli> however, we should have the option to make very rare exceptions i think. this is where we might disagree, dunno
<jussi01> I think what ikonia whas on about though, is that he wants a proceedure for if people are not going to be klined, but continue to cause a hassle in multiple ubuntu channels
<topyli> yes that was his issue
<Tm_T> jussi01: that, when they are trouble but not enough to warrant a k-line
<Tm_T> a long time trouble
<Pici> Thats what he said.
<topyli> and i think the council should be able to help in these kinds of situations
<jussi01> yes.
<topyli> so we should write that down too
<Tm_T> one situation seems to be gone since this was added to meeting agenda, btw, weird
<Pici> I think that those issues need to come to us so that we can make the decision on them, rather than us making a decision now to cover future scenarios.
<jussi01> SO, do we agree we should create a procedure?
<topyli> of course we reserve the right to govern the ubuntu irc universe, but i would prefer it visible in writing somewhere
<jussi01> topyli: +1
<jussi01> again, i think this could be worked into the irc ops guidelines.
<Tm_T> a procedure how IRCC can decide someone is trouble enough to warrant a namespace ban?
<jussi01> Tm_T: namespace ban is not it. core channel ban is more what we are talking about
<topyli> Tm_T, something like that. the ircc reserves the right to make exceptions in exceptional cases
<Pici> I don't think that these sorts of issues can be boiled down into procedures. +1 topyli
<jussi01> topyli: again +1
<topyli> we will document this on the op guidelines page?
<Tm_T> jussi01: core channels alone might not be enough (:
<jussi01> topyli: make a vote.
<topyli> yeah
<topyli> [VOTE] blanket or pre-emptive bans continue to be forbidden. this will be documented properly on the ops guidelines page
<MootBot> Please vote on:  blanket or pre-emptive bans continue to be forbidden. this will be documented properly on the ops guidelines page.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<topyli> i'll create another vote on the exceptions
<topyli> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from topyli. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<jussi01> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jussi01. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<Pici> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Pici. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<nhandler> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<topyli> [AGREED]
<MootBot> AGREED received:
<topyli> gah
<Pici> oh well
<Tm_T> good decision, thanks
<jussi01> topyli: got to end the vote
<jussi01> [endvote]
<jussi01> iirc
<topyli> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<topyli> thanks :)
<jussi01> :)
<m4v> I have a question, was the vote of last meeting resolved? the one about -ops idling policy
<Pici> No
<nhandler> Pici: It was
<nhandler> The vote on We open it to idlers for a limited period of time. (1 month). Then we close it again, and discuss pros/cons to keeping it open. was 3 _1s to 1 +1
<Pici> nhandler: tsimpson voted?
<nhandler> Pici: We had 3 -1's that is the majority of the total council in agreement
<Pici> bah.
<topyli> [VOTE] the ircc reserves the right to make exceptions on exceptional problem users, and this will be properly documented on the ops guidelines page
<MootBot> Please vote on:  the ircc reserves the right to make exceptions on exceptional problem users, and this will be properly documented on the ops guidelines page.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<jussi01> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jussi01. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<Pici> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Pici. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<topyli> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from topyli. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<nhandler> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<topyli> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<topyli> shall we give action items, or fight among ourselves about the ops page?
<topyli> i suggest the latter
<jussi01> topyli: its something everyone needs to contribute to
<topyli> yeah
<jussi01> but the action needs to be that someone will lead the effort
<Pici> Which page?
<jussi01> so who wants to drive it?
<jussi01> Pici: ops guidelines
<topyli> Pici, the ops guidelines page
<Pici> nevermind, I was confused for a moment.
<topyli> it's in a rather good state as it is, but we need these things there
<Pici> I'll do it.
<jussi01> I think we need to have a suggested edits pge or so for it. so the community can also point out things
<topyli> [ACTION] Pici to lead the update of the operator guidelines page
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Pici to lead the update of the operator guidelines page
<jussi01> both that ant the irc guidelines page.
<Tm_T> erm, will the exceptions procedure be public?
<jussi01> Tm_T: es, on the ops guidelines page
<jussi01> yes
<jussi01> topyli: is that it for the agenda?
<Tm_T> I mean, will the discussion and decision be public?
<topyli> jussi01, yes
<Tm_T> all the dirty details and that
<jussi01> Tm_T: its wording only now. decision was made above, no?
<topyli> Tm_T, you mean will the ircc discuss problem users and what to do with them publicly? no
<Tm_T> topyli: that's what I meant, thanks (:
<jussi01> ok, so anyone got any last minute things they want to bring up?
<topyli> i haven't heard that for a while jussi01. we've been quick :)
<jussi01> :)
<jussi01> well, I think we are done, no?
<topyli> i'll end the meeting. we can discuss of course
<Pici> yessir
<topyli> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 14:52.
<jussi01> topyli: will you post minutes to the wiki and ML?
<topyli> thanks everyone, this was rather productive
<topyli> jussi01, i'll do it
<jussi01> excellent. :)
<Tm_T> thanks all, good meeting
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-03-08
<smoser> o/
<ttx> o/
<RoAkSoAx> o/
<SpamapS> aaaaaand compiz crashed
<hallyn> \o
<ttx> SpamapS: not enjoying dog food so much ?
<hallyn> i was actually just enjoying compiz on my other laptop.  thought desktop was looking nice
<smoser> so, it appears that https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting was not updated
<smoser> or, if it was , then we dont have a meeting today
<smoser> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:03. The chair is smoser.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<smoser> ok.
<jamespage> o/
<smoser> so, i think the link above is good except for the 'next meeting' note.
<smoser> we'll go off that agenda
 * robbiew needs to take a call...a few of them actually...so only lurking
<smoser> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<robbiew> so don't ask me about Natty Development Status
<smoser>  * Everyone - ISO testing.
<smoser> I got through all of the ec2 testing, and found enough bugs to have something to do for beta
<smoser> and http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/ubuntuserver/all seems to indicate that we got through all the tests.
<smoser> so, good work on that.
<smoser> [TOPIC] natty development
<MootBot> New Topic:  natty development
<smoser> robbiew, says he doesn't have anything here.
<smoser> does anyone else ?
<SpamapS> hallyn: you have a potential FFe to propose, right?
<hallyn> hm.  yes, potentially for spice
<hallyn> though I'm still skiddish about it
<Daviey> It probably makes sense for hallyn to investigate what needs doing, and propose a FFe if you think so hallyn
<hallyn> yup
<Daviey> We can't ack a FFe anyway :)
<smoser> Beta is March 24.
<Daviey> taht is aaaaaaaaaaages
<hallyn> :)
<smoser> Make sure (this is s a reminder for me) that if you've got things that you expect you'll get fixed, please open bugs, and target them
<smoser> so they wont just get lost
<SpamapS> I just want to bring it up for greater discussion that the FFe would be against qemu-kvm.
<SpamapS> So, if and when its time to propose the FFe, people should take notice and be ready. :)
<smoser> anything else here ?
<hallyn> SpamapS: there *will* be a request to upload 0.14.0 of qemu-kvm
<hallyn> but that's not with spice
<SpamapS> smoser: I've had targetted bugs removed from the target because they weren't considered release blockers...
<SpamapS> Which is , I guess, the general use case for targetting bugs.
<smoser> yeah, but you should at least have the bugs open. and you can let other people decide if the are or are not milestonable
<Daviey> so, like last cycle - we have some super secret tags to add to bugs we care about.
<Daviey> server-nrs for bugs we need to work on.
<smoser> nrs ?
<Daviey> smoser, that is the secret sauce.
<SpamapS> that sounds funny if you say it... serverners
<SpamapS> next cycle will be even better.. serverors
<smoser> what is nrs ?
<Daviey> smoser, Natty Release Server
<SpamapS> Do those get pulled into the wiki page automatically?
<smoser> ah, redundancy built in
<smoser> well done
<Daviey> smoser, The alternative being server-nro - Natty Release Other
<smoser> so.
<Daviey> smoser, Other is not server teams area of work, but stuff we care about.
 * smoser has some things to tag with that.
<Daviey> (ttx's awesome workflow)
<smoser> is that documented somewhere other than right above ? it is new to me, but that does not mean a lot.
<Daviey> smoser, No, it's not documented
<smoser> ok. moving on.
<smoser> unless someone has something else, or wants to step up to give more info there and document it somewhere appropriate...
<smoser> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Server Team Events
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Server Team Events
<smoser>  * UKUUG Spring Conference - 22-24 March, ttx attending, talking OpenStack (and Ubuntu Server).
<smoser> anything else ?
<hallyn> http://www.froscon.de/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.froscon.de/
<SpamapS> MySQL UC coming up April 16
<hallyn> It's not certain, but there's talk of a containers development mini-conf there
<SpamapS> I'll be at the MySQL UC in Santa Clara, giving a talk on Drizzle and Natty
<hallyn> (aug 20-21 in Germany)
<Daviey> smoser, nack.
<SpamapS> Aug?
<smoser> fair enough.
<smoser> moving on
<smoser> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
 * smoser has something for hggdh if he is here
<hggdh> yes?
<hggdh> :-)
<smoser> where do we stand with hardy on ec2 ?
<smoser> as i recall some of your tests failed
<hggdh> there is a new kernel for hardy in proposed, and we will test it in a few
<smoser> but failed both with original hardy (released EC2) and the proposed.
<hggdh> some of the failures we found on ec2 were due to differences in kernel patches; I am told they were expected, and should not show up again
<smoser> hggdh, and you're going to test, and I assume avoid the tests that hang in both existing and proposed.
<hggdh> (i.e., the tests have been updated to consider these differences)
<smoser> ah. ok.
<smb> The security regression tests were always failing on hardy. At least some of them
<smoser> well, anyway you look at it, usre space was causing kernel crash.
<smoser> thats not correct
<smoser> user space
<hggdh> indeed. But all I can do is point out the issues
<smoser> anyone else have anything for hggdh ?
<hggdh> the decision to accept/reject, in these cases, is not mine
<smoser> hggdh, you have anything else ?
<smoser> otherwise, moving on
<hggdh> no, not from here
<smoser> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<smb> I am not sure exactly what I did last week
<smb> This week started to look at some patches for Lucid-ec2 and found that there could be dragons
<smoser> anyone have anything for smb ? i do not.
<smb> smb, Sent a note to you and John with some more details
<smb> errr make that smoser
<smoser> smoser, i got your email
<smoser> :)
 * smb is talking to himself again
<smoser> k.
<smoser> moving on
<SpamapS> smb I noticed some more people with lockups when using gigabit + NFS ..
<smoser> whoops.
<smoser> going back
<smb> SpamapS, I wished I could replicate them
<SpamapS> bug 661294
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 661294 in linux (Ubuntu) "System lock-up when receiving large files (big data amount) from NFS server" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/661294
<SpamapS> smb: right, I think that a new development is that there are some reports of non-NFS high speed transfers causing the same thing
<smb> I am currently trying at least to verify the sending large files patch in Hardy and maybe in Maverick
<SpamapS> smb: and a full lspci for the affected servers. Just wondering if its still on your radar.
<smb> Then there has been something that could affect people doing nfs from within kvm
<smb> SpamapS, "It is full of stars!"
<smb> SpamapS, IOW yes, though there is a lot there
<SpamapS> Ok, just wondering because a few close associates have been affected and are sort of at a loss since they can't go from hardy to lucid for fear of locking up their machines or having to run at 100Mbit.
<SpamapS> we should mvoe on
<smb> It sounded like a race of some sort, but then i tried
<smb> and would receive gigs of files on 1000Gbit
<smoser> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
<smoser> sommer is not here.
<smoser> anyone else want to talk about documentation ?
<Daviey> (thanks smb)
<Daviey> Well... we have had a recent question of translatins
<Daviey> translations.
<RoAkSoAx> I hope things are going great with you.
<SpamapS> I'll be working a lot on upstart docs.
<Daviey> We talked about it at UDS, and i hoped it might have been something that sommer was going to drive
 * RoAkSoAx will start working on updated Cluster Docs
<Daviey> Sadly, he's had other commitments
<Daviey> RoAkSoAx, Do you want to take the action of talking with the wider docs team? :)
<Daviey> If not, i will.
<RoAkSoAx> Daviey: it's all yours :)
<Daviey> "thanks"
<RoAkSoAx> hehe
<smoser> [ACTION] Daviey to talk with wider docs team regarding translations
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Daviey to talk with wider docs team regarding translations
<smoser> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
<smoser> anyone have anything here?
<smoser> ok. moving on
<smoser> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<smoser> anyone have anythign for open discussion ?
<SpamapS> hah wow you waited a whole 15 seconds for the community ;)
<SpamapS> I think thats supposed to be the Community Team
<RoAkSoAx> SpamapS: nope, it was agreed to remove the "Community Team"
<smoser> agenda needs fixing.
<smoser> oh?
<RoAkSoAx> and change it "The Ubuntu Community"
<Daviey> No, RoAkSoAx is correct
<smoser> ah.
<Daviey> I had one more thing.... but i've lost it.
<smoser> so, anything there ? we can go back... but IMO this qualifies as "open discussion" just as well as community team.
<SpamapS> ahh
<SpamapS> ahh ok
<Daviey> Oooo.. That was it janimo is my hero of the week.
<Daviey> That is all.
<RoAkSoAx> smoser: that's what I said but the decision to have "The Community Team" was preferred
<smoser> yeah.
<smoser> k. for open discussion, if someone wants some udev fun
<smoser> bug 712026
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 712026 in udev (Ubuntu Natty) "cloud-init.conf never runs, instance not reachable via ssh" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/712026
<Daviey> (janimo has apparently fixed the axis2c FTBFS bug that was causing us so much upset)
<hallyn> also bug 727342 - debian doesn't have the fix we need yet
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 727342 in open-vm-tools (Ubuntu) "package open-vm-dkms 2010.06.16-268169-3ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: open-vm-tools kernel module failed to build" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/727342
<hallyn> and judging by dupes, there are a lot of people wanting it fixed
<smoser> the udev bug above raises its head a small percentage of time on i386 instances on ec2. resulting in (i think) dead udev, and thus either network devices coming up, or at least loss of their events.. it is fixed with a reboot.
<hallyn> its fixed in upstream git, but not any upstream release.  I can push a temp fix that'll make it work for us, but I suspect debian will not take it and will want to wait for an upstream release
<hallyn> (emailed them and asked).  that is all
<SpamapS> smoser: so, the problem is the net-device-added event sometimes fails ?
<smoser> that is what i was suspecting
<smoser> but all i really have is output http://launchpadlibrarian.net/63369945/hung.txt
<SpamapS> udevd-work[126]: open /dev/null failed: No such file or directory
<SpamapS> interesting
<SpamapS> smoser: we should discuss in #ubuntu-cloud later
<smoser> we can chat more on that offline SpamapS if you're interested, it is somethign that really needs fixing before beta as I suspect that it is a more general issue, and that i've only been lucky so far on i386
<SpamapS> yeah probably
<RoAkSoAx> hallyn: not always, just take the upstream fix and forward it to debian. Once they import a new upstream release they will drop the patch and we can sync
<SpamapS> some new race
<smoser> SpamapS, bug 712034 is related
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 712034 in udev (Ubuntu) "udev error messages to console" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/712034
<smoser> (covering the error messages, but most of the time udev doesn't croak)
<SpamapS> smoser: I think you should release us!
<smoser> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<smoser>         Tuesday, March 15 2011 16:00 UTC
<Daviey> rocking.
<smoser> nothing more to see here folks
<smoser> be on your way
<smoser> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:40.
<JFo> \o/
<ppisati> o/
<jjohansen> \o
<herton> o/
<cking> \o
<sforshee> o/
 * pgraner o/
<bjf> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:00. The chair is bjf.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<apw> o/
<sconklin> o\
<tgardner> 0/
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<bjf> # Meeting Etiquette
<bjf> #
<bjf> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<bjf> #       'o/' indicates you have something you'd like to add (wait until you are recognized)
<bjf> #
<bjf> [TOPIC] Release Metrics (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Release Metrics (JFo)
<JFo> Release Meeting Bugs (14 bugs, 9 Blueprints)
<JFo> ==== Beta 1 Milestoned Bugs (106 across all packages (up 35)) ====
<JFo>  * 6 linux kernel bugs (up 1)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ti-omap bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-meta-ti-omap bug (no change)
<JFo> ==== Release Targeted Bugs (304 across all packages (up 33)) ====
<JFo>  * 19 linux kernel bugs (down 1)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ti-omap bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-meta-ti-omap bug (no change)
<JFo> ==== Milestoned Features ====
<JFo>  * 7 blueprints (Including HWE Blueprints)
<JFo> ==== Maverick Updates Bugs ====
<JFo>  * 69 Linux Bugs (up 9)
<JFo> ==== Lucid Updates Bugs ====
<JFo>  * 94 Linux Bugs (no change)
<JFo> ==== Bugs with Patches Attached:79 (up 2) ====
<JFo>  * [[https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.has_patch=on | Bugs with Patches]]
<JFo>  * [[http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/ | Breakdown by status]]
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: Natty Bug Handling (JFo)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-bug-handling
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: Natty Bug Handling (JFo)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-bug-handling
<JFo> nothing to report today
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: General Natty (apw)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: General Natty (apw)
<apw> The natty kernel is now at v2.6.38-6.33 (v2.6.38-rc8 based).  We are currently concentrating on bug squashing for Natty.  One area of concern is an interaction between vesafb and drmfb during boot, in some cases we are triggering gpu hangs; we are looking at vesafb load to slightly later in boot when drm has not shown up.  We are expecting v2.6.38 final next week.
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Ecryptfs (jj)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Ecryptfs (jj)
<jjohansen> postponed for natty.  xattr version still waiting for review, hope to get the version with names stored in the ecryptfs header out today
<jjohansen> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Stable Kernel Team (sconklin / bjf)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Stable Kernel Team (sconklin / bjf)
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || We have completed verification phase for the current cycle, and entered
<sconklin> || the testing phase: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/StableReleaseCadence
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Maverick/Lucid/Karmic/Hardy/Dapper (sconklin / bjf)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Maverick/Lucid/Karmic/Hardy/Dapper (sconklin / bjf)
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || We have completed verification phase for the current cycle, and entered
<sconklin> || the testing phase: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/StableReleaseCadence
<sconklin> ||
<apw> ?
<tgardner> beer tard....
<sconklin> || Package                                    || Upd/Sec              || Proposed             ||  TiP || Verified ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || dapper   linux-source-2.6.15               || 2.6.15-55.93         || 2.6.15-57.94         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta                        || 2.6.15.56            || 2.6.15.57            ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-backports-modules-2.6.15    || 2.6.15-55.13         || 2.6.15-57.15         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || hardy    linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24   || 2.6.24.18-28.7       ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24       || 2.6.24-28.47         ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta                        || 2.6.24.28.30         || 2.6.24.29.31         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux                             || 2.6.24-28.86         || 2.6.24-29.87         ||    1 ||        1 ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || karmic   linux-ec2                         || 2.6.31-307.27        || 2.6.31-308.28        ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-ports-meta                  || 2.6.31.22.18         || 2.6.31.23.19         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-mvl-dove                    || 2.6.31-214.32        ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-mvl-dove               || 2.6.31.214.13        ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux                             || 2.6.31-22.73         || 2.6.31-23.74         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-fsl-imx51                   || 2.6.31-112.30        ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-fsl-imx51              || 2.6.31.112.10        ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-backports-modules-2.6.31    || 2.6.31-22.24         || 2.6.31-23.25         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta                        || 2.6.31.22.35         || 2.6.31.23.36         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-ec2                    || 2.6.31.307.6         || 2.6.31.308.7         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || lucid    linux-ec2                         || 2.6.32-314.27        || 2.6.32-314.27        ||    3 ||        3 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-mvl-dove               || 2.6.32.209.12        || 2.6.32.214.15        ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-ports-meta                  || 2.6.32.29.22         || 2.6.32.30.23         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-mvl-dove                    || 2.6.32-211.27        || 2.6.32-214.30        ||   20 ||       20 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-lts-backport-maverick  || 2.6.35.25.36         ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-lts-backport-maverick       || 2.6.35-25.44~lucid1  ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-backports-modules-2.6.32    || 2.6.32-29.28         || 2.6.32-30.29         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux                             || 2.6.32-29.58         || 2.6.32-30.59         ||    2 ||        2 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-fsl-imx51                   || 2.6.31-608.22        ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-fsl-imx51              || 2.6.31.608.9         ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta                        || 2.6.32.29.35         || 2.6.32.30.36         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-ec2                    || 2.6.32.314.15        || 2.6.32.314.15        ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || maverick linux-meta-ti-omap4               || 2.6.35.903.6         ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-ports-meta                  || 2.6.35.27.21         || 2.6.35.28.21         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-mvl-dove                    ||                      || 2.6.32-414.30        ||    9 ||        9 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-mvl-dove               ||                      || 2.6.32.414.4         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-firmware                    || 1.38.4               || 1.38.5               ||    1 ||        1 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux                             || 2.6.35-27.48         || 2.6.35-28.49         ||    4 ||        4 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-backports-modules-2.6.35    || 2.6.35-27.18         || 2.6.35-28.19         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-ti-omap4                    || 2.6.35-903.21        ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta                        || 2.6.35.27.35         || 2.6.35.28.36         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: HW Cert. Team  (ara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: HW Cert. Team  (ara)
<ara> hello!
<ara> In the HW certification team, we will start testing the -proposed kernels for Maverick and Lucid tomorrow or early Thursday. We expect to finish testing no later than March 16th (probably a lot earlier!)
<ara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<JFo> Incoming Bugs
<JFo>  225 Natty Bugs (up 43)
<JFo>  1200 Maverick Bugs (up 17)
<JFo>  1031 Lucid Bugs (up 6)
<JFo> Current regression stats (broken down by release):
<JFo> ==== regression-update ====
<JFo>   * 40 maverick bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 76 lucid bugs (up 1)
<JFo>   * 7 karmic bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 0 hardy bugs (no change)
<JFo> ==== regression-release ====
<JFo>   * 94 natty bugs (up 21)
<JFo>   * 236 maverick bugs (down 1)
<JFo>   * 221 lucid bugs (up 4)
<JFo>   * 38 karmic bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 2 hardy bugs (no change)
<JFo> ==== regression-proposed ====
<JFo>   * 1 natty bugs (up 1)
<JFo>   * 0 maverick bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 0 lucid bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 0 karmic bug (no change)
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<JFo> Today is the bug day. We are covering bugs in the New status.
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Triage Status (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Triage Status (JFo)
<JFo> nothing to report.
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<bjf> thanks everyone
<bjf> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:07.
<JFo> thanks bjf
<JFo> now that's gotta be a record
<cking> blink and you miss it
<apw> i blame steve
<JFo> heh
<ppisati> Nafallo:
<ppisati> ops
<jdstrand> o/
<jjohansen> \o
<micahg> o/
<sbeattie> \o
<jdstrand> we'll wait a couple more minutes for the other guys
<jdstrand> alright, well let's get started
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:05. The chair is jdstrand.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Review of any previous action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review of any previous action items
<jdstrand> there is one from last week: sbeattie to update SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures and/or QRT for openjdk tarball generation, build instructions, etc
<sbeattie> jdstrand: bah, didn't get to it. sorry.
<jdstrand> no worries. aiui, you are still embroiled in that anyway :)
<sbeattie> yes
<jdstrand> sbeattie: perhaps just do it after the publication. that way you'll have everything
<sbeattie> jdstrand: sure.
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I am on triage this week
<jdstrand> I think I am going to look at the schroot/dbus issue. I haven't looked at it at all yet, but need it for an upload
<jdstrand> I hope to fix a couple things with ufw
<jdstrand> (minor)
<jdstrand> and do some QRT updates for apparmor and libvirt
<jdstrand> I still would like to investigate changes auditing, since I didn't get to it last week
<jdstrand> beyond that, I'd also like to pick up an update
<jdstrand> (sounds like a busy week)
<jdstrand> :)
<jdstrand> kees: you're up
<kees> okay, am on community this week
<kees> I've been poking around with qrt updates
<kees> mostly for subtle kernel features, and chasing corner-cases that hggdh keeps finding. :)
 * sbeattie hugs hggdh 
<kees> this week I'm going to try to finish my copy_*_user audit in the kernel so I can move on to other areas to audit
<kees> that's it for now
<jdstrand> kees: thanks
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
 * hggdh is a master in finding weird situations...
 * kees hugs hggdh
<mdeslaur> I'm in the happy place this week
<mdeslaur> I published tiff and avahi updates yesterday
<mdeslaur> and finally did a gnome-screensaver SRU
<mdeslaur> I'll be off for a week starting tomorrow, so today I've been doing some triage
<mdeslaur> that's it from me!
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're next
<highvoltage> yay happy places
<sbeattie> hehe
<mdeslaur> :)
<sbeattie> I'm also in the happy place this week.
<sbeattie> Last week I released an update for openjdk/non-arm
<sbeattie> I'm still working on openjdk/arm packages, maverick built, and lucid is still building.
<sbeattie> for lucid, I'll be pushing a no-change-rebuild of binutils and gcj-4.4 from lucid-updates along with it.
<sbeattie> they're in the security-proposed ppa.
<sbeattie> I'm still poking at karmic.
<sbeattie> though I may release the lucid and maverick packages while sorting out karmic
<sbeattie> apparmor: I pushed a 2.5.2 official release tarball to launchpad yesterday.
<jdstrand> nice
<sbeattie> need to do some wiki work and announce it.
<sbeattie> otherwise, I'll try to pick up another update this week.
<sbeattie> That's it for me.
<jdstrand> sbeattie: thanks
<jdstrand> micahg: you're up
 * micahg is perpetually in the happy place
<sbeattie> micahg: \o/
<jdstrand> that will change soon, not to worry :)
<micahg> I have a chromium update this week
<micahg> I'm going to start on the webkit update for karmic-maverick
 * jdstrand hugs micahg 
 * micahg hugs jdstrand
<mdeslaur> \o/
<micahg> I think that's enough for me :)
<jdstrand> micahg: thanks
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> congratulations to micahg for getting his first (and second) USNs out
<jdstrand> beyond that, I don't have anything
<jdstrand> jjohansen: is there anything you'd like to bring up?
<jjohansen> jdstrand: /me still needs to coord with sbeattie for the 2.6 release
<jjohansen> we already have some bugs against it
 * jdstrand nods
<sbeattie> jjohansen: right, nice finds.
<jjohansen> other than that, nothing I can think of
<jdstrand> does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<sbeattie> do we want an apparmor meeting tomorrow?
<jjohansen> sbeattie: blame chromium
<jjohansen> hrmm is there anything to discuss at this point?
<jdstrand> I don't personally have anything
<sbeattie> jjohansen: don't think so, but I thought I'd ask.
 * sbeattie still needs to read jjohansen's dfa posts
 * jjohansen could discuss vague ideas about integrating some cgroups control into profile resource control but I don't think a meetings the right place for that
<jjohansen> or sbeattie could just wait for the longer version tech paper, because I have just moved forward at this point
 * kees enjoyed the dfa posts; I just don't have much to say about them. :)
<sbeattie> heh
<jjohansen> its kernel vars for n+1
 * jjohansen is going to hold off on hfa, backrefs and counting constraints and try to get the rest done
<jdstrand> cool
 * jdstrand looks forward to @{pid} :)
 * jjohansen looks forward to a faster compiler
<jdstrand> heh
<jdstrand> alright, thanks everyone!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:28.
<sbeattie> thanks!
<micahg> thanks jdstrand
<jdstrand> sure :)
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand
<NRWlion> hey guys
<MrChrisDruif> Hai NRWlion :)
<jledbetter> Salutations
<NRWlion> MrChrisDruif, you again ;)
<NRWlion> satue jledbetter
<MrChrisDruif> Yeah, you'll find me everywhere :P
<NRWlion> MrChrisDruif, that sounds like a life threatening ;)
<MrChrisDruif> Meh....more in a friendly way :)
<cprofitt> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 17:59. The chair is cprofitt.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<cprofitt> Welcome to the Beginners Team meeting
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-03-09
<cprofitt> please say here if you are present for the Beginners Team meeting
<ddecator> here
<johnny77> here
<pleia2> here
<s-fox> o/ here
<CensoredBiscuit> here
<duanedesign> her
<jledbetter> here
<szczur> here
<duanedesign> e
<Cheri703> here
 * phillw here
<MrChrisDruif> Hai
<cprofitt> szczur: I am pleased to let you know that the council had voted to approve your membership
<MrChrisDruif> s/Hai/here
<cprofitt> congratulations!!!
<s-fox> Well done.
<johnny77> yay!
<ddecator> szczur: congrats :)
<MrChrisDruif> All? :)
<szczur> thanks a lot :)
<CensoredBiscuit> congrats
 * NRWlion is here too
<MrChrisDruif> Congratulations to all the new members
<szczur> thank you all of the support
<jledbetter> Congratulations :)
<phillw> szczur: congrats, richly deserved.
<MrChrisDruif> Ow...misread....congratulations szczur :)
<cprofitt> [topic] Elections
<MootBot> New Topic:  Elections
<cprofitt> As you know we are going to be holding elections to replace two council members
<cprofitt> nhandler: ping
<UndiFineD> o/ good morning
<cprofitt> We will be holding these elections as they do for other councils with voting online
<MrChrisDruif> Hai UndiFineD
<cprofitt> there will be an email sent out soon with instructions for voting
<cprofitt> are there any questions on that?
<MrChrisDruif> Instructions in mail, sounds pretty clear :)
<cprofitt> I hope it will be
<cprofitt> [topic] Getting more Mentors
<MootBot> New Topic:  Getting more Mentors
 * NRWlion has none .. waiting for mail
<cprofitt> duanedesign: your floor
<cprofitt> NRWlion: we have not sent them yet
<cprofitt> soon though I think
<duanedesign> just a reminder that we need to continue working on our community efforts
<cprofitt> I would like to remind people that we have 'umbrella' groups
<cprofitt> and there are specializations beneath them
<duanedesign> the social aspect of our team is awesome and I have made some wonderful friends, but we are here to contribute to Ubuntu
<cprofitt> for example accessibility would be a specilization under development, documentation and support -- depending on what you were skilled at provindg help with
 * ddecator would love to see -beginners-bugs become more active
<duanedesign> and anyone who is contributing should have no problem geting membership in one of the teams required to be a mentor
<cprofitt> lubuntu would be a specialization under support and documentation
<cprofitt> ddecator: +1 to active with bugs
<duanedesign> for example bugs FG. You wouuld need to be a member of Bug Control.
<PabloRubianes> sorry I am late
<MrChrisDruif> cprofitt: Why not dev? Is it because they only select package to use instead of creating new?
<duanedesign> If you have any quenstions about the requirements for being a bug mentor or any other FG please ask
<jledbetter> duanedesign, To be on the team or as a mentor for -bug?
<duanedesign> jledbetter: as a mentor
<jledbetter> duanedesign, Understood. Thanks :) What are requirements for -dev?
<cprofitt> MrChrisDruif: those are just examples... if there is dedicated dev work to lubuntu that does not cross other projects then yes... but in most cases I see dev as usually being rather cross-WM
<MrChrisDruif> cprofitt: Thanks, was just curious :)
<cprofitt> duanedesign: all set?
<duanedesign> jledbetter: i will find that for you
 * nhandler is here
<cprofitt> hey nhandler
<jledbetter> duanedesign, Thank you. I'd like to know so I can work toward it :)
<phillw> one of the 'problems' is that SII and speechcontrol have been moved upstream, against my loudest shouts, but I do understand the reasoning. We will retain a very close tie to ubuntu but the council are once again faced with what we had when lubuntu arrived.
<cprofitt> all set duanedesign ?
<cprofitt> phillw: I do not think we are on that topic yet
<duanedesign> Development FG you should be a Contributing Developers, per-package uploaders, MOTU or Core Developers
<duanedesign> so if you are active in the community membership in these teams is not very hard and very attainable for all
<jledbetter> duanedesign, Ok, thank you.
<duanedesign> I would like to see everyone working towards being a member of one of these community teams
<duanedesign> thank you
<cprofitt> [topic] accessibility FG
<MootBot> New Topic:  accessibility FG
<cprofitt> a quick note before I turn the floor over to UndiFineD
<UndiFineD> :)
<cprofitt> we currently are not planning on having an Accessibility Team
<cprofitt> because we do not want to pull it out of the teams it can benefit...
<phillw> sorry cprofitt  I thought we were discussing FG's in general.
<cprofitt> developers need to think about accesibility, docmentation needs it... support needs it
<cprofitt> so I would like to see accessibility 'experts' on all the FG teams
<cprofitt> I know we have discussed this before... and I would be willing to see it discussed more on the email list...
<phillw> cprofitt: we have a guy redrafting the SII charter, but please understand we were planning on a 3 month transition and got this dropped on us to be moved upstream.
<cprofitt> I hope folks understand that it is the intent to give accessibility a first class seat by asking developers, etc to think of it while they are developing... not as an add-on
<cprofitt> UndiFineD: you have the floor
<UndiFineD> hmmm, now I made up this agenda some month ago, a few days after the meeting
<UndiFineD> and in that time a lot has changed for a lot of us
<UndiFineD> I can understand the delay for the accessibility FG
<UndiFineD> but we also need to define expert level
<UndiFineD> i think that is all i can say about that atm
<duanedesign> maybe a wiki page explaining how to get involved in contributing to accessebility.? excuse me if this already exists on the accessebility wiki
<UndiFineD> it does
<cprofitt> UndiFineD: I want to be clear there is no delay for the accessibility FG
<UndiFineD> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/GettingInvolved
<cprofitt> we want to incorporate accessibility with all the current FGs
<duanedesign> ok. we can make it clear that we have interested folks in bt that are willing to help you get involved, through our focus groups, helping with accessebility
<cprofitt> have the Dev FG learn about accessibility... from the ground up
<cprofitt> +1 duanedesign
<duanedesign> suprised no one has pointed out my terrible spelling of accessibility
<UndiFineD> cprofitt: well, yes and no ;) it is a delay if it is not agreed upon in this meeting, but there is no work done getting this prepared
<cprofitt> it was agreed on many meetings ago
<cprofitt> to try and incorporate accessibility under our existing FGs
<UndiFineD> duanedesign: dyslexia ? :P
<phillw> if people code from the ground up, for either code or web sites, we can make a differance.
<cprofitt> +1 phillw
<UndiFineD> well, it can also be done for existing projects of course
<cprofitt> I certainly would like to get more than the one Accessibility Mentor...
<cprofitt> I believe hajour is working with charlie-tca on that currently
<phillw> one of the things I was asked, was does accessibility have enough people to maintain itself as a FG - the  answer is yes.
<cprofitt> phillw: it is not just a question of that
<cprofitt> if we would like to re-open the discussion we can do so on the mailing list
<ddecator> i think it's more about not splitting up efforts and instead trying to keep them combined
<ddecator> if we split them up too much, then we'll have 20 FGs working on different but related things
<duanedesign> i think we can make a great difference using our current structure
<cprofitt> I will, if you like, try to send an email to the team about what was agreed on before.... if the team wants to change we can work towards coming up with a suggestion
<phillw> that is why the SII charter is being re-written from scratch as we and speech control were moved upstream, but we can have a chat about that after the meeting.
<cprofitt> SII has nothing to do with the BT ... at least nothing that I am aware of
<cprofitt> but, yes after the meeting
<cprofitt> [topic] new member voting
<MootBot> New Topic:  new member voting
<ddecator> ha, it actually caught it that time
<cprofitt> I believe the new member voting was covered on the mailing list
<PabloRubianes> yes
<cprofitt> but to restate -- the council now votes on new members... and we look at the testimonials on their wiki page, emails sent to the council, etc
<phillw> just for clarification, out of the nominees, who did the council elect?
 * evilnhandler notes that this isn't a new change
<cprofitt> this was done to give folks who had issues with making meeting able to have input to the process as well
<cprofitt> allowing the council to handle influxes of people such as what we had after UDS-N
<duanedesign> elky: right, I added to the confusion last meeeting. That is wht I felt the need to clarify the policy :)
<cprofitt> +1 evilnhandler
<duanedesign> oops
<duanedesign> evilnhandler: ^^
<cprofitt> phillw: we approved szczur
<cprofitt> [topic] More members requested for Developers FG
<MootBot> New Topic:  More members requested for Developers FG
<cprofitt> again before I turn it over to UndiFineD
<UndiFineD> no, not my topic
<cprofitt> I want to clarify that we really do not 'request' members to join teams...
<cprofitt> ok UndiFineD
<cprofitt> we are all volunteers here... so it is more of a 'want to do this' than a request
 * NRWlion gets a slight laugh in his face ;)
<jledbetter> More activity would be nice :)
<duanedesign> good point :) we are all here to have fun
<s-fox> Yes, "fun"
<duanedesign> ;)
<cprofitt> we would love to see more activity... and would love to help those who want to contribute to the dev team
<cprofitt> but we will not force you in to the Kings army :-)
<cprofitt> or any such thing
<jledbetter> cprofitt, Who's the active leader?
<evilnhandler> jledbetter: Collin Pruitt
<jledbetter> evilnhandler, Thank you
<cprofitt> evilnhandler: we need to make him an admin on the LP team then
<NRWlion> cprofitt, doubt that i would be helpful in -dev ;) absolutely no knowledge ;)
<evilnhandler> cprofitt: He is a member of ~ubuntu-beginners-dev-owner
<cprofitt> NRWlion: we want you to be involved where you are interested
<cprofitt> evilnhandler: ok
<NRWlion> i know. that was just on "we dont force you to the Kings army" ;)
<cprofitt> :-)
<cprofitt> [topic] Ubuntu for all
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu for all
<cprofitt> UndiFineD: you have the floor
<UndiFineD> just raising awareness that this is a new team that got started by AlanBell
<cprofitt> URL?
<UndiFineD> it seems to be a somewhat cross-connecting team for every one
<pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuForAll
<pleia2> it's actually an old team, we're working to revive it a bit
<cprofitt> pleia2: what is Ubuntu Younglings?
<cprofitt> that is part of that
<pleia2> cprofitt: AFAIK it's a proposal for kids (youth is more teenage)
<MrChrisDruif> I think it totally embodies the Ubuntu ethos (UFA that is)
 * cprofitt nods
<cprofitt> and what is NGO?
<pleia2> non-government organization, non-profits
 * cprofitt nods
<phillw> Non Governmetal Organisation
<cprofitt> so a very broad project that is looking to ensure that people are included?
<pleia2> more of an umbrella team
<pleia2> just making sure all those projects are on track, or at least getting help if they need it
<cprofitt> very much the way the BT envisions Accessibility...
<ddecator> is there an lp group?
<cprofitt> if I grasp it correctly
<pleia2> there is a mailing list: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-for-all
<cprofitt> I thank you all for making us aware of this umbrella team...
<phillw> pleia2: as SII are doing for accessibility, I look forward to working closely with you.
<UndiFineD> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-for-all
<ddecator> UndiFineD: danke
<cprofitt> I think a great many of these interests could be represented inside the BT as well...
<cprofitt> at the very least we need to be aware of them
<duanedesign> sounds great
<pleia2> cprofitt: I have some follow-up to do with your WRT to BT & Ubuntu Women mentoring
<pleia2> -to
 * cprofitt nods to pleia
<cprofitt> yep
<cprofitt> [topic] folks needing a master
<MootBot> New Topic:  folks needing a master
<cprofitt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Membership
<cprofitt> please look to the bottom of that page and make an effort to contact folks who are in your TZ
<cprofitt> If you are unable to reach a person please contact me or another member of the council.
 * ddecator wishes that list included what their interests are
<duanedesign> ddecator: that is a good point
<cprofitt> I know in some cases we have had people add their names to the list... and never join irc or answer emails... and we need to remove those folks
<johnny77> but sometimes they may not know, right?
<jledbetter> Some said in the email so we could add it.
<ddecator> johnny77: just if they have any specific interests
<jledbetter> cprofitt, True
<duanedesign> though ideally they should send email...what jledbetter said :)
<cprofitt> ddecator: yes, we removed the need to tell us what a person was interested in until they are looking for a mentor
<duanedesign> ahh
<cprofitt> if you are just looking to join the BT you may not know what you are interested in
<cprofitt> that may develop as you grow with the team
<ddecator> true, i would just prefer to take someone in my TZ who is interested in working with bugs just so i can possibly help them from the get-go :)
<cprofitt> ddecator: but the original phase of being a master is just getting them setup with a LP account, wiki page, irc client, etc
<ddecator> cprofitt: yah, true
<cprofitt> I think any BT member should be able to handle that basic list
<NRWlion> even i am able to
 * ddecator will try to take on someone
<cprofitt> it is difficult enough to find masters in some TZs -- having to match interests as well would really slow the process down
<ddecator> we're allowed to have more than one padawan, right?
<NRWlion> btw i am a new one too but dont need a master because already found one
<cprofitt> you are allowed more than one padawan
<MrChrisDruif> ddecator: Yes
<ddecator> cprofitt: right, not having to match on interests, just doing so if it happens to work out that way, but i get your point
<cprofitt> when you become a mentor -- we may want to revist that
<cprofitt> so again... please look at the list of those seeking a master...
<MrChrisDruif> NRWlion: It also stated on the line before it "...Â and have not yet been sponsored by a Master"
<cprofitt> and look for them on irc or try to contact them
<cprofitt> I would like to consider adding another column for 'contacted by'
<NRWlion> sorry, its nearly 2 am here ... a little tired ;)
<cprofitt> so we do not end up with a person getting 12 emails
<cprofitt> anyone have an issue with that?
 * NRWlion not
<jledbetter> cprofitt, Great idea
<ddecator> nah, that sounds like a good idea
<cprofitt> ok --- contact by with a date stamp I think will help
 * MrChrisDruif thinks that person would feel very special
<ddecator> oh, that name looks familiar..
<duanedesign> you could do  @SIG@
<ddecator> jdeslaur has been in the team channel recently, yah?
<cprofitt> +1 duanedesign
<MrChrisDruif> ddecator: Yeah, he's been there before :)
<cprofitt> ddecator: he has.. and I tried to contact jdselaur today
<cprofitt> I did not get a response, but at least in channel
<ddecator> alright, i could work with him/her unless you plan to already
<ddecator> but that can be sorted out later
<cprofitt> ddecator: be my guess
<cprofitt> guest
<cprofitt> It would be great for you to do it
<hajour> jdeslaur is on his work when he is in chat here
<ddecator> cprofitt: want me to add my sig on the wiki then?
<cprofitt> ddecator: yes -- and add the column for contacted too please
<ddecator> cprofitt: right, sure thing
<cprofitt> also, as another note I would like Masters to review the
<cprofitt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Mentors
<hajour> so he is  not always able to response right away
<cprofitt> page and remove any Padawan that you feel you have lost contact with
<cprofitt> for my own part I will be removing three tonight... as I have not gotten any response from them... nor have I seen them in irc
<cprofitt> I encourage you to do the same
<duanedesign> yes we have needed to clean it up for awhile.
<ddecator> james_w: thanks
<cprofitt> it is inevitable that people will decide that BT is not for them... and that is ok
<ddecator> woops
<ddecator> hajour: ^^
<phillw> mine just nag me to death... I wish they would leave me in peace somedays :P
<cprofitt> any other questions?
<duanedesign> i just want to say to everyone keep up the great work.
<cprofitt> +1 duanedesign
<johnny77> I'm not sure if this is a good time, but I was wondering if anyone has heard from seidos.
<NRWlion> phillw, you ask me to do so ... :( :'(
<jledbetter> I've seen him on the mailing list, johnny77
<duanedesign> jledbetter: +1
<duanedesign> as metta
<cprofitt> johnny77: yes... I just talked to him earlier today
<cprofitt> or at least I am pretty sure i did
<UndiFineD> johnny77: I have spoken with him in private
<duanedesign> :)
<cprofitt> maybe it was on the mailing list
<phillw> I also see him kicking around
<cprofitt> thanks to everyone for coming to the meeting. This was an awesome turnout.
<duanedesign> +1
<jledbetter> See y'all in -team :D
<cprofitt> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 18:55.
<phillw> cprofitt: -council or PM?
<UndiFineD> I am missing the topic of council elections !
<jledbetter> UndiFineD, Going out via email to the list on how to vote :)
<UndiFineD> oh ok
<NRWlion> in that case i should visit my bed now
<NRWlion> good n8 everyone
 * mvo waves
<robbiew> o/
<robbiew> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:04. The chair is robbiew.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Apologies
<MootBot> New Topic:  Apologies
<ev> o/
<robbiew> doko is out
<robbiew> ...think that's it
<robbiew> oh...jhunt too
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Lightning Round
<MootBot> New Topic:  Lightning Round
 * robbiew grabs jhunt' status
 * barry pre-apologizes for next week
<robbiew> "Apologies from James. Updated Natty tech overview for Upstart. Worked on upstart "intro" docs. Merged visualisation branch into upstream and natty upstart branches. Lots of packaging fun + intrigue (thx cjwatson+mvo!). Lots of doc changes. Fixed gdm bug 436936, but after a number of branches and many, many pushes, it is not getting to the right place (I think the topic of bzr branches needs more focus in the UDD gui
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 436936 in gdm (Ubuntu Natty) "gdm upstart job checks /proc/cmdline for single user mode, won't start on post-boot runlevel change" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/436936
<robbiew> grr...did that all come through?
<robbiew> cut-and-paste
<cjwatson> cut off at "UDD gui"
<robbiew> UDD guide - working out which branch to take and where you *can* push it under lp:~user without getting errors has taken way too much time IMHO).
<robbiew> Currently finishing implementing review changes as suggested by cjwatson (1 item remaining) and then plan to work on finishing tests for keybuks branch, resolving bugs 728531 and 728988.  "
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 728531 in upstart "chroot support is not reliable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/728531
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 728988 in upstart "upstart tests for initctl show-config and check-config fail in a chroot" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/728988
<robbiew> cjwatson: he mentioned needing some help in pushing the fix for the gdm bug
<cjwatson> I saw the scrollback about that, seemed to be confusion about namespacing
<cjwatson> I'll check back with him when we're next both at work on the same day
<robbiew> ev?
<ev> Helped the design team intern get familiar with our tools and helped him refresh the installer slideshow. Taught ubiquity to offer Wubi when the partition table is full and copy it to the windows auto run folder (still need to teach Wubi to clean that up). Fixes to the recent installer changes, working with mpt to further refine. Travel to Pycon.
<ev> And dealing with my laptop breaking and having to bring an old one up to speed.
<ev> Done
<robbiew> heh...the laptop you dropped?
<ev> Well....yes
<ev> :-/
<robbiew> :P
<cjwatson> I guess offering one thing that doesn't work (Wubi) is as good as offering another thing that doesn't work ;-)
<ev> hahaha
<robbiew> lol
<cjwatson> (sorry, that was a cheap shot, not your fault ...)
<robbiew> indeed
<ev> I enjoyed it regardless
<robbiew> it's the thought that counts
<robbiew> thx ev
<robbiew> barry?
<ev> I am going to try to find some time to fix the issues I'm seeing with Wubi. Just need to get a copy of windows set up locally.
<robbiew> ev: ack
<barry> bug 724416 (claws-mail duplicate messages); bug 727988 (broken libgpgme.la), bug 719206 (csound import failure), bug 731421 (scons sync request and FFe), bug 730447; udd stakeholders meeting; udd docs merged into ubuntu packaging guide; patch pilot.  travel to pycon today, there until 3/18.  done.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 724416 in claws-mail (Ubuntu) "Claws appends sent message to Sent folder twice" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/724416
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 727988 in gpgme1.0 (Ubuntu) "/usr/lib/libgpgme.la has broken dependency_libs entry" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/727988
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 719206 in csound (Ubuntu Natty) "import (and examples) fail" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/719206
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 731421 in scons (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Sync scons 2.0.1-1 (main) from Debian testing (main)" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/731421
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 730447 in scons (Ubuntu) "causes csound to be compined with -fvisibility=hidden" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/730447
 * robbiew finishes reading through barry's bugs
<robbiew> thnx
<robbiew> mvo?
<mvo> alpha3: app-install-data update, apt-ddtp update, command-not-found update, maverick->natty test upgrades
<mvo> Apt-clone: cleanup commandline usage, more tests, fix issues around the upgrade
<mvo> Apt: honor DPkg::Chroot-Dir in RunScripts*(), work on libudev fixes for when FSTAB_DIR is missing from the udev attributes, work on lp:~mvo/apt/sha512-template code, remove duplicated code
<mvo> Aptdaemon: debug/fix crash in enable_component, add test, commmit to trunk, more tests, fix add_repository crash
<mvo> Software-center: weblive, adding tests, branch merges, review/merge detailsview-stuff
<mvo> Synaptic: prepare new upload/merge from debian
<mvo> Unattended-upgrades: work on minimal upgrade steps in unattended-upgrade and push FFe
<mvo> Update-manager: add alert when on 3g or roaming
<mvo> (done)
<robbiew> "Software-center: weblive,"
<mvo> lalala
<robbiew> is the option in natty?
<mvo> just a tech demo
<mvo> disabled by default
<robbiew> heh
<robbiew> no worries
<robbiew> just wanted to know if I could play around with it :P
<mvo> but if you run software-center --with-weblive its there and pretty cool (thanks to stgraber)
<mvo> you need qtnx installed too
<mvo> its definitely good stuff and worth playing with, works pretty well for me
<robbiew> thnx mvo
<robbiew> psurbhi: ?
<psurbhi> *) introduced a timeout option in mountall. Can be changed with a command line argument: --dev-wait-time. Added support in mountall.conf to pass the kernel command line option "rootdelay" to mountall.
<psurbhi> *) serialized the execution of the init-top, init-premount, local-top, local-premount and then mountall
<psurbhi> *) made upstart scripts for inserting modules "loop, ubi, mtd" at startup. Need to add better error handling support.
<psurbhi> *) analyzed the scripts in init-top, init-premount, local-top, local-premount across packages to see how they could be arranged.
<psurbhi> *) analyzing the bottom scripts now.
<psurbhi> *) should be soon ready with the current initramfs order of execution adapted in the event based initramfs (to the point of mounting the rootfs ro)
<psurbhi> DONE
<robbiew> psurbhi: thnx
<robbiew> cjwatson: ?
<cjwatson> done: patch pilot; banging head repeatedly against bug 693671 and remembering far more about x86 assembly than I wanted to; upstart reviews etc.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 693671 in grub2 (Ubuntu Natty) "wubi install will not boot - phase 2 stops with: Try (hd0,0): NTFS5" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/693671
<cjwatson> todo: dearly hoping to fix wubi before heat death of universe
<cjwatson> sorry, not a lot to say this week :)
<cjwatson> --
<robbiew> cjwatson: statik mentioned that we have a Windows "expert" in online services...might be worth getting him to look at it
<cjwatson> TBH this is not at the Windows level
<robbiew> ack
<ev> Which reminds me that I have an email from last year to write :-/
<cjwatson> it's actually not in any Windows code
<robbiew> just thinking he might also know x86 assembly ;)
<psurbhi> heh...
 * ev reads up on that bug
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Natty
<MootBot> New Topic:  Natty
<robbiew> so with that...how is Natty going?
<robbiew> heh
<cjwatson> ev: (this is the kind of bug that makes me very worried about using wubi by default, FWIW ...)
 * robbiew puts his fingers in his ears when he hears "wubi by default"
<ev> I figured, though it will never be ready until we force it into the situation where we must fix these things
<ev> If that means headcount, then it's my fault for not pushing on mark yet
 * barry still can't keep his atheros wireless from crashing in natty on his mbp
<ev> barry: Things to not mention the day before I go ahead and buy one :-P
<cjwatson> ev: some of the problems here are very fundamental
<ev> Oh?
<cjwatson> the fact that NTLDR only loads 8KB of boot code makes life very difficult
<barry> ev: well, to be fair, the mbp in question is a 1,1 so it's pretty old.  new ones might be better
<cjwatson> while debugging this, I couldn't insert any debugging code without deleting other code
<cjwatson> which means anything at that level that we can't reproduce ourselves is bound to be an absolute nightmare
<barry> robbiew: we have a dozen bugs tagged with python27 in natty, though 2 are marked incomplete.  that's actually not too bad, but i'll tackle them when i get back
<cjwatson> it was very fortunate that I could reproduce this bug; it could easily have been entirely intractable
<robbiew> barry: ack, thx
<barry> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=python27
 * robbiew looks at http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-foundations-ubuntu-11.04-beta-1.html
<robbiew> heh...at least there's not much feature work
<mvo> the hdd for the auto-upgrade-tester got approved, so hopefulyl python-all upgrades will be tested automaticially in the future
<cjwatson> heh, that's a good demonstration of how we've sucked at subcycle WI management this cycle
<robbiew> or how we rock!
<robbiew> lol
 * robbiew doesn't look at the bugs...that would ruin the joy
<robbiew> ignorance is truly bliss
<cjwatson> well, all of the WIs assigned to me on that list were completed sometime in the a2 timeframe
 * mvo adds that two of his three are addressed (for b1)
<cjwatson> which makes it kind of weird to look at :)
<cjwatson> Can anyone who isn't on holiday or swap day or conference or whatever (if anyone) stand in for me at the release meeting on Friday?
<cjwatson> I have a swap half-day that afternoon, assuming Robbie approves :)
<ev> cjwatson: Understood and sorry for the delay - Spontaneous hall conversation. Do you thinks theres value in picking a grub version and freezing on it, given the fragile nature of these things?
<mvo> cjwatson: if noone else volunteers I can do the meeting
<robbiew> I think mvo has volunteered
<robbiew> [TOPIC] AOB/Good News
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB/Good News
<ev> barry: You're rubbish! Dinner tonight or tomorrow? :)
<cjwatson> ev: I don't understand how freezing GRUB would help
<cjwatson> (and it would certainly cause lots of other problems)
<barry> ev: tonight would be good.  have you heard back from allison?  doko's there too
<ev> It was seemingly working fine, without these issues in previous cycles
<cjwatson> the major part of the problems are in code that runs before GRUB starts
<ev> I had assumed this was a regression
<cjwatson> it's not clear
<cjwatson> there's some evidence that it may depend on details of the layout of your NTFS filesystem
<cjwatson> at least parts of it
<ev> Gay
<ev> Gah
<ev> Damn this iPad
<cjwatson> :-)
<mvo> â¦
<cjwatson> I vaguely recall hangs a bit like this before that we could never track down
<ev> I assure you that was autocorrect being PURE EVIL
<cjwatson> mvo: thanks!
<ev> hmm
 * mvo mumbles something about the usefulness of keyboards
<robbiew> lol
<mvo> took me forever to preppare the last release meeting, maybe I'm quicker this time
<robbiew> okay...calling this one done!
<robbiew> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:38.
<mvo> thanks
<robbiew> thx all!
<barry> thanks!  ev, see you in a few hours
<ev> cjwatson: Don't get me wrong, I understand your concerns and share them, but I'm equally concerned with how hard it is to install ubuntu, despite our best efforts. I want to say maybe more automated testing is part of the answer here, but that's probably me just getting a big excited about test frameworks.
 * barry -> pycon
<ev> barry: Safe travels!
<barry> thanks!
<ev> Thanks all
<cjwatson> ev: the worst problem here is lack of in-team expertise IMO
<ev> In x86 assembly?
<cjwatson> we're relying - in a way that I can't think of any way to unpick - on code that was abandoned upstream in 2009, that's intrinsically 7000 lines of x86 asm, and that nobody on the team knows.  I'm picking it up now but ...
<cjwatson> to my knowledge there is no other code out there that could replace this, given the design of wubi
<cjwatson> anyway, maybe I'm just over-focusing on my current problem.  it just gives me some pause
<cjwatson> I agree that it's a valuable installation tool, which is why I'm working on it
<ev> Not at all, I think you're entirely valid in being concerned.
<cjwatson> but I worry about the possibility of a disconnect between engineering and marketing resulting in us advertising something that doesn't work and we can't fix it :)
<ev> Oh definitely, and I'll do everything I can to prevent that from happening
<ev> Its definitely not being pushed hard for 11.04
<ev> And if we decide to go with it for 11.10 it will be with the request of your blessing and decided very early on so we can prepare adequate testing
<ev> And with the understanding that we'll drop it if it's not stable
<cjwatson> I think my basic problem here is that I'm not confident that we will always be able to fix critical problems; I don't know how I could become confident of that
<ev> We could always go the grub on mbr + loopback if we decide the current path is unmaintainable. We lose the non destructiveness of it, but keep the ability to not have to resize partitions.
<ev> Path*
<ev> I'm definitely going to relay all this to Ale when I get back to the office, so the web team knows.
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-03-10
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:03. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<ogra> moo
 * rsalveti waves
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110310
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110310
<janimo> hello
<NCommander> so who's here?
<rsalveti> I'm not
<davidm> Hi
<NCommander> [topic] Action Items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action Items
<NCommander> [topic] ogra to fix WI tracker
<MootBot> New Topic:  ogra to fix WI tracker
<ogra> hmm, havent checked it yet, but it should be fine now
<NCommander> [topic] everyone to check their WI status on the whiteboards that the right beta tag is set
<MootBot> New Topic:  everyone to check their WI status on the whiteboards that the right beta tag is set
<ogra> looks fine
<ogra> NCommander, no beta WIs for you at all ?
<ogra> everyone else seems to show up
<NCommander> ogra: my one spec was axed because you, me,a nd persia agreed the design was unworkable for generic subarch support
<ogra> well, i guess you still have enough mono to do ;)
<NCommander> ...
<NCommander> [topic] Standing Items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Standing Items
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel.html
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel-ubuntu-11.04-beta-1.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel-ubuntu-11.04-beta-1.html
<rsalveti> most my WI related to GLES are basically waiting the implementation to finish
<rsalveti> so no much to do
<rsalveti> then just remain the others
<rsalveti> webkit fix is now uploaded, and should hit the archive soon
<rsalveti> then we can go back and use ubiquity with the slideshow
<NCommander> rsalveti: once we have it confirmed fixed, I'll delete the livecd-rootfs hack
 * ogra still cant remember what packageselection-arm-n-device-type-detection meant
<rsalveti> NCommander: I tested already with a preinstalled image
<ogra> err, the Wi i have for that
<rsalveti> NCommander: and it worked fine, just need to wait it to build and hit the archive
<rsalveti> and that will take between 1 and 2 days
<ogra> persia, i think that was yours, could you somehow brief me again offline ?
<NCommander> anything else on the WIs?
<ogra> i wonder if we shouldnt remove the ppa cluster
<ogra> davidm, ^^^
<NCommander> ^- davidm
<ogra> its totally not bound to release cycle but makes us look slightly bad
<ogra> i think we're doing really great, but thanks to that spec the tracker doesnt really reflect that
<rsalveti> it's not something that affect the release
<ogra> yeah, thats what i mean
<rsalveti> it's more a launchpad feature than ubuntu, in some way
<NCommander> ogra: maybe simply target it to O cycle?
<ogra> NCommander, right, something like that, but its davids spec and his decision
<ogra> seems he's not around so lets move
<ogra> we can clearify that later
<NCommander> [topic] Unity 2D Status
<MootBot> New Topic:  Unity 2D Status
<ogra> will see an update before end of the week
<NCommander> cool
<ogra> lots of fixes in trunk we dont have in the image/archive yet
<ogra> nothing new otherwise
<NCommander> anything else?
<ogra> not from me
<NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, rsalveti)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, rsalveti)
<ogra> where is our .38 build ?
<ogra> i thought GrueMaster approved it
<rsalveti> no other news beside the same package from last week that GrueMaster tested
<davidm> I pulled the PPA cluster from the timeline
<ogra> davidm, thanks :)
<davidm> and removed it from natty entirely
<GrueMaster> I did.
<ogra> move it to O
<davidm> I did  that weeks and weeks ago
<rsalveti> GrueMaster reported back to cooloney, but now it'd probably be good to reply the email thread saying we want it by default
<ogra> it makes us look good from the beginning :)
<rsalveti> and change the boot.scr arguments, to use the DVI output
<ogra> ah, right
<GrueMaster> I did that as well (I think).
<ogra> rsalveti, how will we handle upgrades =
<davidm> ogra, it's it's still showing up let me know what I need to do to remove it entirely
<ogra> we still have no solution for that
<GrueMaster> email that is.
<ogra> yes, i saw GrueMaster's mail
<ogra> i dont think there should be any blocker
<ogra> statement was clear
<rsalveti> no, and we could just do the switch
<rsalveti> for the update I believe we could just document it for now
<rsalveti> otherwise we would need to hack the boot args
<rsalveti> but the user will need to change the cable anyway
<ogra> yes, i actually did expect tim had done it after GrueMaster's mail
<rsalveti> yup, that's whay it may need another email requesting it
<ogra> well, i'll use IRC ;)
 * ogra pinged tim
<rsalveti> :-)
<ogra> i still would like to have a proper upgrade path though
<rsalveti> GrueMaster: anything to report for the kernel tests?
 * janimo is running the 2.6.38-1024-omap4 kernel from PPA, looks fine after a few days
<rsalveti> yeah, it'd be good to have
<ogra> i.e. some message from update-manager "please plug your cable into the dvi port after reboot"
<janimo> headless only though, mostly building workloads
<ogra> thats the least we should have
<rsalveti> ogra: yup, that can be changed at the package itself?
<rsalveti> like a postinst?
<ogra> there is a script in u-m somewhere
<ogra> we added a warning for ARMv5 vs v6 between karmic and jaunty
<rsalveti> ogra: ok, so should we wait this to be done before putting it as default?
<rsalveti> I can dig to see what was done
<ogra> dyfet was actually supposed to add a v7 warning too and never managed
<GrueMaster> This is only temporary though, right?
<ogra> i think that can happen hand in hand
<rsalveti> it shuold be
<ogra> GrueMaster, we dont know if it will be solved by release
<rsalveti> before the release we want to use hdmi again
<rsalveti> and have a proper driver
<ogra> sure
<ogra> but we dont have it at all yet
<rsalveti> no, and not completely sure if TI will manage to implemente the hdmi driver
<rsalveti> but that's another problem
<ogra> so at least being prepared for such a warning in u-m before string freeze is needed
<ogra> we can still drop it
<rsalveti> ok, will look to have it
<ogra> ok, kernel switch triggered, tim is building it now
<rsalveti> awesome
<rsalveti> any other question for kernel?
<ogra> (seems he missed GrueMaster's mail)
<davidm> outstanding
<rsalveti> ogra: guess he was waiting the reply at the pull request email
<ogra> GrueMaster, use a <blink> tag in the subject line in the future ;)
 * NCommander is having chromium stability issues this morning :-(
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
<GrueMaster> Interesting.  We even discussed it on IRC.
<ogra> GrueMaster, but you didnt use <blink> there either :P
<janimo> some progress on FTBFS count
<NCommander> So on ARM porting, I'm kinda grinding my gears w.r.t. to mono
<janimo> closed a few arm-porting-queue tagged bugs
<NCommander> We've gotthe SMP patch which does wonders for the mono 2.10 test suite (and was incorperated in the 2.10.1 release)
<ogra> NCommander, do we need to send Tobin some earplugs ?
<janimo> including the two outstanding Qt ones (pending a test for neon still)
<NCommander> but I'm not making any headway with a successful backport to 2.6, I think the underlying mono crashes are coming from PInvoke() failures in Gtk#
<NCommander> but it seems odd to me that they're over occuring in 1-processor mode
<janimo> NCommander, can we just apply the membarrier patch to 2.6 and do an upload, if it is clearly needed even if does not seem to direclty impact banshee?
<NCommander> I was able to produce the same failures on Debian sid, so at least I've ruled out thumb2 as the immediate cause
<ogra> we could just quickly rewrite banshee in C :)
<NCommander> janimo: I can do that, but I don't really want to do multiple mono uploads
<NCommander> janimo: are you sure banshee fully worked when in nosmp mode? Its slightly more stable, but trying to do anything like play music or rescan library causes a crash
<NCommander> (also, f-spot is still crashing)
<ogra> luckily we dont ship f-spot anymore since maverick
<janimo> NCommander, no I am not sure at all. rsalveti and GrueMaster looked at nosmp testing in more detail
<ogra> how is tomboy
<NCommander> ogra: its still a valid test case
<NCommander> ogra: tomboy works
<GrueMaster> Tomboy never failed.
<ogra> we usually had it working while all other apps failed
<ogra> right
<NCommander> rsalveti: ^- banshee nosmp question
<GrueMaster> My guess is that it is not multithreaded.
<janimo> The bug is probably in mono but some apps manage to not trigger it
<NCommander> janimo: well, that's why I think its pinvoke()
<janimo> depending on how Gtk intesive they are
<ogra> tomboy is really trivial indeed
<NCommander> (for reference sake, pinvoke is the magic C# to C binding)
<rsalveti> I just tested with banshee
<janimo> NCommander, IIRc in Dallas I managed to get stable banshee if I uninstalled the default theme
<janimo> and using some ghetto default
<janimo> gtk theme that is
<NCommander> janimo: doesn't work here, I have it using no theme and still crash city
<NCommander> rsalveti: right, but what did you do in banshee beside launch it?
<rsalveti> NCommander: use it normally, playing music and such
<janimo> nothing, look at the About menu :)
<GrueMaster> NCommander: I played audio for a good hour on my BeagleXM
<rsalveti> yeah, it was quite stable
<NCommander> grumble
<NCommander> I guess I need to run the test suite in nosmp mode and see if we still get failures or if we're looking at a red hearing
<janimo> GrueMaster, never had crash recently on single core?
<GrueMaster> Could be we are seeing multiple issues.
<NCommander> What's making things difficult w.r.t. to backporting is the JIT is passing all the tests
<NCommander> And between 2.6 -> 2.10, someone added iPhone support
<NCommander> which means there's a TON of commits clogging up the works
<rsalveti> ouch :-(
<NCommander> plus I'm not even sure mono is fixed in 2.10 since I can't run banshee without spending a week recompiling the entire stack
<rsalveti> argh, problem of using a quite old version
<NCommander> (I'm semi-tempted to throw Gentoo ina  chroot and test it that way)
<janimo> NCommander, right, when I looked I could find may arm commits but nothing which wuld imply it fixes some tests
<NCommander> janimo: I'm almost thinking it probably got improved as part of the iPhon10:30:37 < janimo> nothing, look at the About menu :)
<NCommander> 10:30:49 < GrueMaster> NCommander: I played audio for a good hour on my  BeagleXM
<NCommander> 10:31:02 < rsalveti> yeah, it was quite stable
<janimo> NCommander, or Suse or any distro with new mono I guess
<NCommander> &^%$@$!#
<janimo> ah they may not have arm
<NCommander> janimo: SuSE doesn't have an ARM port
<rsalveti> fedora?
<NCommander> hrm
 * NCommander looks
<janimo> probably not very wdely tested
<rsalveti> or OE
<GrueMaster> Fedora has an arm port in the works (I think).
<rsalveti> but then don't know if they are building banshee and mono
<rsalveti> there is a mono recipe at OE, but 2.6.3
<ogra> doesnt OE even default to hardfloat ?
<NCommander> they've got banshee available for Fedora
<ogra> that should have build options close to ours (v7 thumb2)
<rsalveti> don't think they already changed it
<NCommander> ogra: I already elimated v7+thumb2 as the cause of the regression
<NCommander> bah
<NCommander> Fedora is shipping 2.6 still
<rsalveti> argh
<rsalveti> who is using 2.10?
<rsalveti> opensuse only?
<ogra> megoo ?
<NCommander> checking
<ogra> did anyone check there
<NCommander> ogra: no
<janimo> various IPhone and Android 3rd partuy apps maybe
<NCommander> ogra: but its of limited use. the problem is the entire dependency stack
<NCommander> Might simply need to build a chroot then build mono + gtksharp + everything else from scratch
 * NCommander wimpers
 * GrueMaster votes to bag mono for this cycle - again.
<NCommander> but I think we need to confirm 2.10 is regression free
<rsalveti> GrueMaster: it'd be nice to have
<janimo> NCommander, does C# have the equivalent of inline functions, so Gtk sharp has some bits unless rebuilt against a new mono, even if we upload a fixed mono?
<ogra> GrueMaster, that means we need to take over rhythmbox mainteanance
<rsalveti> and it seems we're getting closer somehow
<NCommander> janimo: nout out of the box
<NCommander> at least
<NCommander> I don't think so
<NCommander> janimo: I know the official Microsoftimplementation can make native code .exe's
<NCommander> I don't know if mono embeds native code into the generated PE files
<GrueMaster> NCommander: Instead of trying to build it locally, should it go in a ppa?
<NCommander> GrueMaster: repackaging mono for 2.10 would be an absolute nightmare
<NCommander> and I'm not confortable in my packaging skills to try it
<janimo> NCommander, well it is packaged for Deb as you said, just too risky to sync at this point
<NCommander> janimo: its not uploaded, the transition is sitll in progress
<janimo> I say we should keep debugging (I will help as well) and only keep Rhythmbox if we cannot fix it say 2 weeks before release
<ogra> and what would we gain ? we cant upload it at all without affecting the other arches
<ogra> 2.10 is clearly not natty for the others
<NCommander> ogra: right, but we need to make sure that 2.10 is fixed. At the very release, O cycle which we could ship 2.10 will work
<ogra> sure
<NCommander> if we know 2.10 works, then we can bisect, and deal with all the iphoneos patches
<NCommander> but I don't want to deal with that without a "verification-confirmed" in hand :-P
<rsalveti> yeah, we need to test with 2.10
<rsalveti> or git upstream
<NCommander> I'll work with git, since I at least have been making progress with mono upstream devs :-)
<NCommander> actually
<rsalveti> well, it should work :-)
 * NCommander checks gentoo very quickly
<NCommander> if I can do 'emerge banshee' and let it run for a day, I'd be happy
<janimo> NCommander, so gentoo has good arm support?
<rsalveti> Nafallo: http://packages.gentoo.org/package/dev-lang/mono
 * ogra would suspect OE to be easier
<NCommander> oh right, nuts
<NCommander> gentoo's ARM port is kinda ...
<GrueMaster> If I may, we don't want to throw all or even most of our engineering effort at one package.  We have enough other stuff that is in the image that needs attention.
<rsalveti> janimo: it would be easier to have an arm rootfs
<NCommander> in the same state as its m68k port
<janimo> NCommander, one of the mono arm devs is from Budapest, worst case we track him down at UDS and let him fix this :)
<rsalveti> Nafallo: sorry
<rsalveti> NCommander: http://packages.gentoo.org/package/dev-lang/mono
<rsalveti> 2.10.1-r1
<NCommander> davidm: I think a bit of direction is needed: how high is mono on the priority list
 * Nafallo steps away from the gentoo.
<rsalveti> and banshee 1.8.1
<Nafallo> no worries
<NCommander> rsalveti: right but its masked to powerpc/amd64/i386 only. There's an armel overlay but this is leading to the path to madness
 * ogra guesses the banshee shop is pretty high
<rsalveti> argh, no easy path
<NCommander> rsalveti: right, so best bet is to simply try and build mono stack by hand and pray
<rsalveti> yeah
<ogra> NCommander, really, take OE
<janimo> GrueMaster, well I mean since our WIs seem to be getting close to solved and we get into more bugfixing mode, this is one important bug. Of course we should see if there are other more important issues
<NCommander> [action] NCommander to build mono stack by hand and confirm 2.10 fixes mono regression
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to build mono stack by hand and confirm 2.10 fixes mono regression
<NCommander> ogra: looking at OE, I don't even see a package list
<janimo> NCommander, but debian arm does not experience this crash een on 2.6 ?
<rsalveti> ogra: mono is still 2.6
<rsalveti> so he would first need to update the mono recipe
<rsalveti> and that can take the same amount of work as updating the ubuntu package by hand
<NCommander> janimo: no, it does
<NCommander> rsalveti: I was able to reproduce the crash in a Sid chroot with the SMP patch
<janimo> NCommander, great than. I had the impression we were special because of ARMv7 and newer toolchain
<NCommander> janimo: its probably a good idea to have someone double check my results to make sure I made no error
<janimo> NCommander, do we absolutely rule out hw errors
<janimo> panda kernel/memory stuff
<NCommander> janimo: mono devs did report they don't see issues on tegra
<NCommander> although I'm blocking if that's SMP or not
<janimo> that is SMP AFAIK
<ogra> all tegra2 cpus are multicore
<NCommander> my tegra system is currently got a trashed install on it
<GrueMaster> Was it tegra or tegra 2?
<NCommander> ogra: can you easy test banshee?
<ogra> only on maverick
<NCommander> oh, argh
<ogra> i cant upgrade to natty
<NCommander> ogra: we had the issue with maverick I believe
<NCommander> ^as well
<janimo> ogra, it used to fail on maverick too so ok
<GrueMaster> Yes, we did.
<ogra> right, what would a test on tegra improve here ?
<NCommander> [action] ogra to determine if mono still crashes on tegra
<ogra> for maverick
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra to determine if mono still crashes on tegra
<NCommander> ogra: rules out panda HW.
<ogra> k
<rsalveti> well, mono version from maverick is quite the same
<NCommander> you probably need the SMP patch
<rsalveti> NCommander: don't you also have a ac100 in hands?
<NCommander> rsalveti: the install is trashed
<rsalveti> hehe :-)
<GrueMaster> Best to fail first, then test the fix.
<ogra> yeah, and restoring an SD takes 10mins
<rsalveti> wrong window
<NCommander> right, we're running out of time
<NCommander> so lets take this offline
<ogra> ++
<rsalveti> yup, move
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<ogra> headless is there !!!
<ogra> :)
<NCommander> go ogra + janimo
<rsalveti> \o/
<GrueMaster> Needs work, but it is booting.
<ogra> bug 732576 needs some testing for the fis
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 732576 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Natty) "oem-config-debconf does not start on preinstalled images" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/732576
<ogra> *fix
<ogra> should be in the next ubiquity upload, i'll test the fix after meeting
<ogra> serial by default is still miissing
<davidm> NCommander, sorry was pulled away on a call
<ogra> and to make GrueMaster happy i hardcoded "localhost" as hostname for all preinstalled images today ;)
<davidm> mono is important
<ogra> Bug 732581 is an intresting one
<NCommander> davidm: not a problem
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 732581 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Natty) "oem-config colormap distorted during package removal in oem-config-debconf on omap4 preinstalled images" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/732581
<NCommander> davidm: ok, just wanted to make sure I wasjustified to continue working on it
<davidm> NCommander, we need to fix it, if at all possible
<ogra> i would like to see someone test on a beagle
<GrueMaster> ogra: Will do later this am.
<ogra> since i'm not sure its the panda framebuffer being broken here
<ogra> GrueMaster, just wait for the next build, that shuld also have the ubiquity-dm fix so you dont need to tinker with the image
<GrueMaster> k
<ogra> headless will be the first image to build every day, ist also the fastest build (shoudl be available at 00:30 UTC)
<ogra> so we can easily test core bits before netbook gets built
<GrueMaster> Especially if netbook crashes.
<ogra> yep
<rsalveti> awesome
<janimo> NCommander, to avoid building the whole stack of mono, you may first build banshee from source too with a minimal set of dependencies and plugins which still lead to crash
<ogra> its a good measure
<ogra> .. done with image status
<NCommander> janimo: I'm going to follow the instructions on the website to build banshee
<NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)
<NCommander> janimo: I don't think it will be TOO bad
<GrueMaster> Documented installation process at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/HeadlessInstall
<janimo> NCommander, ok, I now it has lots of plugins enabled as it is
<ogra> meh
<GrueMaster> For the minimal image.
<NCommander> janimo: almost all ship with banshee
<ogra> GrueMaster, can you follow the naming scheme thats on /OMAP
<ogra> since thats what we link from the image download pages
<GrueMaster> ogra: I left it this way in case we start building more images for other platforms next cycle.  Reduce wiki clutter.
<janimo> NCommander, right. I mean if there are plugins written in C# which now ship, but which if disabled still crash banshee, those you don;t need to include in the full rebuild
<ogra> GrueMaster, well, it should be linked from /OMAP and have a releasename in the url
<NCommander> janimo: fair enough
 * GrueMaster waits for mono discussion to finish.
<GrueMaster> ogra: This was also just a first run.
<janimo> uh sorry, I brought it up again
<GrueMaster> Time's up.
<ogra> GrueMaster, yeah https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/OMAP links to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/OMAPMaverickInstall and should also link to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/OMAPNattyInstall ...
 * NCommander can't remember if we're running into another meeting
<ogra> make the headless instructions a link on the natty one
<NCommander> [topic] Any Other Business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
<NCommander> (very quickly :-))
<ogra> NCommander, finish, we can take the rest offline
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:02.
<pitti> mdz, kees, cjwatson: TB meeting in 1 min?
<pitti> no trace of sabdfl or Keybuk
<kees> pitti: hola. I emailed keybuk just now
<kees> pitti: haven't heard back though
<mdz> hi pitti
 * pitti still chews up the last bits of his dinner
<mdz> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is mdz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<pitti> ah, you're chairing? thanks
 * pitti just noticed that he is signed up as fallback, but I don't insist :)
<mdz> I have done zero prep, because I thought someone else was chairing, and didn't get a response when I asked on the list
<mdz> there were no minutes sent out for the previous meeting, so I don't know if there were any actions
<kees> I updated the agenda about 15 min ago with the statuses from the last meeting
<pitti> $ bzr lp-propose
<pitti> bzr: ERROR: No reviewer specified
<pitti> sorry, -EFOCUS
<kees> mdz: I don't see your email to the list either
<mdz> http://www.novarata.net/mootbot/ubuntu-meeting.log.20110222_0932.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.novarata.net/mootbot/ubuntu-meeting.log.20110222_0932.html
<mdz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<mdz> kees, thanks for that
<kees> np
<mdz> looks like the actions are all done
<mdz> [topic] Quarterly brainstorm review (mdz)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Quarterly brainstorm review (mdz)
<mdz> so it's been 3 months since the last one, so it's time for the second installment of the brainstorm review
<mdz> I would be grateful if someone else could drive it this time
<mdz> it's not a huge amount of work, but requires some day-to-day care and feeding to keep things moving
<mdz> I can share the email templates, blog text, spreadsheet, etc. which I used the last time
<pitti> that would be helpful indeed
<kees> mdz: what was your criteria for what to respond to out of all the stuff there?
<pitti> so that was about reviewing the top n and picking out the sensible stuff?
<pitti> I think I can squeeze in some time for that
<mdz> pitti, yes
<mdz> kees, I more or less picked the top 10 off of the "most popular over 6 months" list
<mdz> though I would be glad to see some experimentation there
<mdz> I think there are lots of valid ways to select the best ones
<kees> mdz: I assume we should ignore the ones that we already responded to?
<mdz> kees, not necessarily
<mdz> I think it depends on what it is, and what's happened
<mdz> certainly for the ones being worked on, I expect something has happened in the past 3 months that's worth mentioning
<pitti> sounds like applying some common sense
<kees> yeah
<mdz> yep
<pitti> mdz: I'm happy to sign up for this round
<mdz> it should be much easier this time around because you can just follow the process if you want
<mdz> pitti, sound good?
<pitti> yep
<mdz> great, done
<mdz> [action] pitti to kick off brainstorm review
<MootBot> ACTION received:  pitti to kick off brainstorm review
<mdz> [action] mdz to send materials to pitti
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mdz to send materials to pitti
<mdz> [topic] mailing list scan
<MootBot> New Topic:  mailing list scan
<mdz> I saw this and wasn't sure if it had been dealt with:
<mdz> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-March/000713.html
<mdz> uTouch package set and Chase Douglas' application for upload right	to it
<pitti> I set up the package group yesterday
<pitti> cnd can upload now, he tested it
<pitti> I think that's done
<pitti> I'll follow up
<mdz> [action] pitti to respond to uTouch package set request
<MootBot> ACTION received:  pitti to respond to uTouch package set request
<mdz> pitti, thanks
<mdz> [topic] administration of ubuntu-release
<MootBot> New Topic:  administration of ubuntu-release
<mdz> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-March/000721.html
<mdz> [link] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-March/000721.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-March/000721.html
<mdz> cjwatson asked about this, and I suggested that it should be a TB decision
<kees> I think it's fine for skaet to be admin there; as long as TB remains an admin as well. (this was one of the proposals from the thread, IIRC)
<mdz> presently, ubuntu-release is owned by me (mdz) and cjwatson is the only administrator
<pitti> I'd just make it easy and set both her and TB as admin
<Keybuk> the question here is whether the release manager can add new people to the ubuntu-release team without requiring TB approval/rubber stamping?
<pitti> hey Keybuk, howdy
<mdz> I think the owner of the team should be TB, rather than me, and would like to just go ahead and do that. any objections?
<Keybuk> historically this was always "yes" ?  in which case having kate + TB as admins seems entirely appropriate to me
<kees> mdz: no objection from me
<Keybuk> (or TB as owner, kate as admin)
<pitti> mdz: +1
<Keybuk> mdz: +1
<mdz> [agreed] techboard should be the owner of ubuntu-release
<MootBot> AGREED received:  techboard should be the owner of ubuntu-release
<mdz> (done)
<pitti> mdz: wrt ML scan: "01.03.11 18:30 Michael Bienia    Re: Application for Per-Package Upload rights"
<kees> right, delegating this kind of thing is what we've tried to do. I think that's consistent here.
<pitti> mdz: I'll get to that after the meeting
<mdz> Keybuk, yes, the question is whether the TB should manage membership in ubuntu-release or whether it should be delegated to the release manager
<pitti> mdz: that was for Serge
<pitti> (sorry, thought we were done)
<mdz> pitti, oh, good catch, I thought that was a dupe of the other one
<mdz> [action] pitti to add PPU rights for Serge Hallyn per ML
<MootBot> ACTION received:  pitti to add PPU rights for Serge Hallyn per ML
<mdz> Keybuk, yes, I believe cjwatson became admin in his capacity as RM
<mdz> as opposed to TB
<mdz> so historically, the RM has had this ability, though it's a bit of a grey area since he was also on the TB
<Keybuk> indeed
<Keybuk> but only grey if you don't know the history
<mdz> so the proposal is to make Kate the admin of ubuntu-release, as official RM delegate from the TB
<mdz> a bit late, given she's been doing the job for a while
<mdz> any questions on that or shall we vote?
<kees> it's clear to me. I'm ready for a vote.
<Keybuk> no, question or objections
<mdz> [vote] Kate Stewart to be confirmed as release manager as a delegation from the TB, and admin of the ubuntu-release team
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Kate Stewart to be confirmed as release manager as a delegation from the TB, and admin of the ubuntu-release team.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<Keybuk> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Keybuk. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<mdz> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from mdz. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<kees> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from kees. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<pitti> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pitti. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<mdz> #endvote
<mdz> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<mdz> [action] mdz to update LP accordingly
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mdz to update LP accordingly
<mdz> [topic] community bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  community bugs
<mdz> my understanding is that further action on our old friend, bug 174375, is blocked on bug 451390
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 174375 in Launchpad itself "Distribution drivers permissions may need redesign" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174375
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 451390 in Launchpad itself "limited upload rights no longer give series nomination accept/decline rights" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/451390
<mdz> so I added an ubuntu-community task and TB assignment for that bug, so that we track it
<cjwatson> urgh, sorry I forgot about this meeting; I've been on holiday today
<mdz> it looks like it just got escalated an hour ago via flacoste (thanks to whomever did that)
 * cjwatson skims scrollback
<mdz> so I think we don't need to do anything just yet and should wait to see what happens with 451390
<cjwatson> FWIW I think I was admin of ubuntu-release before I was on the TB
<cjwatson> though haven't checked dates
<mdz> cjwatson, indeed, I was just thinking that
<mdz> [topic] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<pitti> mdz: still from ML scan: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-January/000670.html
<mdz> anything else?
<pitti> rather old, we failed to spot it earlier
<mdz> pitti, oh, I completely missed that
<mdz> [topic] SRU for w3m
<MootBot> New Topic:  SRU for w3m
<mdz> [link] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-January/000670.html
<pitti> IMHO it's a "low risk, low profit" thing
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-January/000670.html
<mdz> it's in relation to bug 523229
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 523229 in Launchpad itself "The Continue button isn't selectable in w3m for sso login (dup-of: 683337)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/523229
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 683337 in w3m (Ubuntu) "Backport button element support to Lucid" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/683337
<pitti> I don't think many users would suddenly expect it to work on a stable release after over a year
<pitti> and it's not a major bug at all
<kees> seems fine; did this come to TB because it's a feature change? did it get kicked back from the SRU team?
<cjwatson> the LP team specifically asked for it, IIRC
<mdz> I had no idea it was broken
<cjwatson> originally they asked foundations; somebody (mvo?) looked at it and determined it was less easy than initially expected, and moved on to other things
<mdz> kees, there's no indication in the bug that it was rejected by the SRU team
<cjwatson> now there's a patch
<pitti> it was brought up with TB straight away
<pitti> and it's not even (marked as) fixed in natty
<kees> yeah, I think this should just go through the regular SRU process.
<cjwatson> it was raised with the TB well after it was raised with foundations, iirc
<mdz> https://code.launchpad.net/~iheino+ub/ubuntu/lucid/w3m/bug683337 has one "approve" and one "disapprove"
<pitti> nor is u-sru subscribed
<cjwatson> but yeah, I don't see why this should be going through the TB
<Keybuk> indeed, this seems like a justification for an ordinary SRU
<Keybuk> which can be done in the usual way
<mdz> bounce to ubuntu-sru?
<kees> yup
<mdz> who should do that? the person who wrote the patch?
<mdz> ah, yes, it's the patch author who sent it to t-b@
<mdz> I'll respond on the list
<kees> https://code.launchpad.net/~iheino+ub/ubuntu/maverick/w3m/bug683337/+merge/46417  <- last seems to say it was rejected for SRU?
<mdz> oh?
<kees> pitti: ari-tczew mentions you in his rejected review
<pitti> ah, I guess we talked about it on IRC a while back then
<mdz> "I have debated with Martin Pitt about your patch and unfortunately, it can't be approved. It's small new feature, no bug-fix. This is way through backports."
<mdz> comment dated 2011-01-30
<ari-tczew> kees: yes?
<mdz> pitti, are you ok with this going back to ubuntu-sru for consideration?
 * pitti looks at the patch again -- it's quite large indeed
<mdz> pitti, yes, it's non-trivial
<cjwatson> perhaps somebody could ask the LP team whether they still feel this is important
<pitti> mdz: we can, but looking at the patch again my opinion didn't really change
<cjwatson> (I admit I'm going somewhat from memory, I can't remember who raised this with us)
<pitti> large change, not really appropriate for SRU
<mdz> but I don't agree with the "feature" designation
<cjwatson> I can chase the original contact down in my mail folders and take that action if people want
<mdz> LP has changed, login via w3m doesn't work, that's a bug
<pitti> but I have no strong opinion about it
<pitti> if someone can test it with a lot of web pages, so be it
<pitti> problem is that we don't usually get this kind of comprehensive testing
<mdz> [action] cjwatson to follow up on w3m SRU request for w3m from Tuomas Heino
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to follow up on w3m SRU request for w3m from Tuomas Heino
<mdz> happy for cjwatson to decide how to handle it from here
<mdz> cjwatson, thanks
<mdz> [topic] AOB v2.0
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB v2.0
<mdz> if you like, we could debate the general principles of Ubuntu components which interface with web services
<mdz> and the tradeoffs in trying to provide the best experience for users
<mdz> possibly risky updates vs. broken compatibility with the web
<mdz> there are a variety of other packages with this problem
<mdz> youtube-dl is a recent example I came across
<mdz> Ubuntu One we've discussed before
<cjwatson> I seem to remember attempting to establish a principle that changing external circumstances can be a justification for updates
<mdz> the number of such packages will only grow
<cjwatson> possibly in the context of Landscape, from what I remember
<pitti> mdz: it wasn't pointed out as a regression; if it is, then that would be appropriate indeed
<cjwatson> i.e. the server has changed, if we don't change the client then it's to all intents and purposes a regression and we should fix it
<cjwatson> (we can deprecate such behaviour all we like, but don't always have power to do much about it)
<mdz> pitti, hmm, you're right, it doesn't say. but I'm pretty sure it has worked in the past
<mdz> I've certainly logged into LP with w3m before
<cjwatson> however, I'm being called for dinner and have to leave, I'm afraid - since I'd forgotten about this meeting while on holiday, I didn't warn Kirsten about it
<mdz> cjwatson, I feel the same, though I didn't recall us having set a precedent
<mdz> ok, later cjwatson
 * cjwatson finds it
<mdz> does anyone have a feeling about whether this is something we should discuss further, either now or at the next meeting?
<cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Special%20Cases links to:
<cjwatson> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2009-March/000550.html
<cjwatson> which was explicitly phrased as precedent
<mdz> cjwatson, good memory
<mdz> "As such, the Technical Board '''approves''' the proposed policy [1],
<mdz> with specific cases at the discretion of the ubuntu-sru team."
<pitti> right, no objection if it's a regression
<mdz> ok
<mdz> nothing more to discuss then
<cjwatson> anyway, got to run
<mdz> wrap up?
<mdz> ok, thanks all
<mdz> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:40.
<kees> thanks mdz
<pitti> thanks all
<kees> Keybuk: can you chair next meeting?
<Keybuk> just checking calendar, but I think so
<Keybuk> yup
<kees> cool
 * charlie-tca waves at everyone
 * pleia2 waves
<charlie-tca> Let's get this ball rolling
<charlie-tca> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 13:01. The chair is charlie-tca.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<charlie-tca> This is the Xubuntu Community Meeting. The full agenda can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Old business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Old business
<charlie-tca> we have several items to go through, the first being
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu marketing plans
<knome> marketing plans: most pending on the new WP site, and we're still waiting for access to staging.xubuntu.org
<knome> xubuntu blog is now aggregated to planet ubuntu.
<charlie-tca> Thank you, knome
<charlie-tca> Can we close this one now?
<knome> afaik, there is no other progress. am i right, pleia2?
<pleia2> and ochosi's artwork post hit the planet yesterday, yay :)
<pleia2> that's it
<knome> let's close it for now, we can reopen it once we get progress with WP
<charlie-tca> Thank you
<charlie-tca> next we have - ochosi and knome will put together some logo designs to be discussed as the menu icon
<knome> wp meaning wordpress, not wallpaper ;)
<charlie-tca> This is closed
<knome> yeah, it's pretty much not possible...
<charlie-tca> There's a problem with how the new panel handles the menu-icon. ochosi filed a bug about it upstream since the new app-menu button is always scaled down to square size. There's not much room for improvement over the current icon.
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/panel-menu-icon-2.png is the latest draft, though
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/panel-menu-icon-2.png is the latest draft, though
<charlie-tca> We keep trying, at least
<knome> yep.
<knome> we're investigating.
<charlie-tca> This is website, I think - ask knome to do some drafts with a grey background and a black background
<knome> umm, just a sec
<knome> i'm sure i did one, but that's not online for some reason
<charlie-tca> okay, I will carry it forward
<knome> yup, i'll continue working with that with pleia2
<charlie-tca> There is also the tele-conference for marketing, any status?
<knome> still moving forward, probably post-natty
<charlie-tca> and then we have - put workspace switcher back in the current configuration for natty
<knome> so we can close that as well
<charlie-tca> and this is done
<charlie-tca> that takes of old business, next
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Team updates
<MootBot> New Topic:  Team updates
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Artwork
<MootBot> New Topic:  Artwork
<charlie-tca> greybird is now fixed to theme gdm.
<knome> (yay)
<charlie-tca> ochosi improved the xfce4-notification style so that it's more contrasty and easier to see
<charlie-tca> There has been a new release of the elementary icons upstream as promised and that includes quite a few fixes for us
<charlie-tca> and we will be choosing a wallpaper
<knome> *a default wallpaper
<charlie-tca> We have many excellent submissions at http://www.flickr.com/groups/uawt-7/pool/
<charlie-tca> I propose picking the top 5 to add to backgrounds, with the best one used as default for natty
<knome> how are we going to vote?
<charlie-tca> I don't know the best way to do this, but I would ask for each persons top two picks
<charlie-tca> Only community members present are going to vote
<knome> what counts as a community member?
<charlie-tca> who is here for the meeting?
<knome> o/
<pleia2> o/
<charlie-tca> o/
<micahg> o/
<Sysi> o/ here community member or not
<charlie-tca> [link] http://www.flickr.com/photos/57470087@N03/5297409903/in/pool-uawt-7
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/57470087@N03/5297409903/in/pool-uawt-7
<charlie-tca> [link] http://www.flickr.com/photos/leogg/5247055287/in/pool-uawt-7
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/leogg/5247055287/in/pool-uawt-7
<charlie-tca> first two to consider
<charlie-tca> I show 5 people, that is only ten to narrow down
<charlie-tca> knome: picks?
<knome> i'm lamely going to propose the two of my own.
<charlie-tca> by all means
<knome> http://www.flickr.com/photos/emunkki/5515540418/in/pool-uawt-7#/photos/emunkki/5515540418/in/pool-1546142@N20/ (#1)
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/emunkki/5515540418/in/pool-uawt-7#/photos/emunkki/5515540418/in/pool-1546142@N20/ (#1)
<knome> http://www.flickr.com/photos/emunkki/5515380336/in/pool-uawt-7#/photos/emunkki/5515380336/in/pool-1546142@N20/ (#2)
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/emunkki/5515380336/in/pool-uawt-7#/photos/emunkki/5515380336/in/pool-1546142@N20/ (#2)
<charlie-tca> Okay, that is the two emunkki drafts, the man with umbrella, and the glider with yellow
<charlie-tca> pleia2: yours?
<pleia2> http://www.flickr.com/photos/pr09studio/5277600138/in/pool-1546142@N20/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/pr09studio/5277600138/in/pool-1546142@N20/
<pleia2> http://www.flickr.com/photos/leogg/5247055287/in/pool-1546142@N20/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/leogg/5247055287/in/pool-1546142@N20/
<knome> micahg, Sysi ?
<micahg> http://www.flickr.com/photos/leogg/5224255554/in/pool-1546142@N20/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/leogg/5224255554/in/pool-1546142@N20/
<micahg> http://www.flickr.com/photos/tylana/5343925114/in/pool-1546142@N20/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/tylana/5343925114/in/pool-1546142@N20/
<Sysi> should i give links if i'm not gonna pick new ones?
<knome> Sysi, not necessarily :)
<Sysi> knome's #1 (newer) or the umbrella guy
<charlie-tca> Okay, now we got the top 8
<knome> i'm dropping my #2 off the list, so we have 7
<charlie-tca> anybody got an idea how to pick the best now?
<Sysi> btw, has ubuntu wallpaper been decided/published?
<charlie-tca> hm, vote on each one, with the one receiving the highest votes goes as default?
<knome> sure.
<charlie-tca> Ubuntu will probably use what they have already, the color splash thing
<knome> one vote per person?
<charlie-tca> yes
<knome> yup.
<beardygnome> hi guys, just got here, what are we voting on?
<charlie-tca> and only those present vote
<charlie-tca> wallpaper!
<beardygnome> can i get a link?
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> http://www.flickr.com/groups/uawt-7/pool/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.flickr.com/groups/uawt-7/pool/
<beardygnome> thnaks
<charlie-tca> We picked out 7 to vote on, and will do this one at a time. The wallpaper getting the most votes goes as default, so if it is not your favorite, either obstain or vote -1. We are counting the +1 votes, not what the bot decides
<knome> i'd say better to vote -1
<charlie-tca> [VOTE] first wallpaper to vote on - http://www.flickr.com/photos/57470087@N03/5297409903/in/pool-uawt-7
<MootBot> Please vote on:  first wallpaper to vote on - http://www.flickr.com/photos/57470087@N03/5297409903/in/pool-uawt-7.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<knome> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from knome. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
<micahg> charlie-tca: how many times can we vote?
<knome> micahg, one.
<knome> micahg, one plus.
<knome> micahg, minus votes do not count :)
<beardygnome> once per wallpaper, right?
<charlie-tca> heh, many as you want for each one
<charlie-tca> one vote, one wallpaper, I mean
<beardygnome> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from beardygnome. 0 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -2
<knome> right, so one has more than one vote?
<charlie-tca> One has one vote to use for each design, yes
<knome> (eg. you could +1 all the images?)
<knome> okay.
<charlie-tca> yes, you could, it would count the same as not voting, wouldn't it?
<knome> charlie-tca, yes and no ;)
<charlie-tca> 0
<micahg> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from micahg. 0 for, 3 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -3
<charlie-tca> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from charlie-tca. 0 for, 3 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -3
<charlie-tca> Okay, that one fails
<charlie-tca> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 3 against. 1 abstained. Total: -3
<charlie-tca> [VOTE] next wallpaper - http://www.flickr.com/photos/leogg/5247055287/in/pool-uawt-7
<MootBot> Please vote on:  next wallpaper - http://www.flickr.com/photos/leogg/5247055287/in/pool-uawt-7.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<charlie-tca> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from charlie-tca. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<knome> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from knome. 1 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 0
<beardygnome> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from beardygnome. 2 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<micahg> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from micahg. 2 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 0
<charlie-tca> I just realized, beardygnome is disadvantages, he did not know which ones are up
<Sysi> it doesn't matter on this kind of vote?
<knome> charlie-tca, he still votes + or - for each.
<charlie-tca> okay
<pleia2> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 3 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<beardygnome> yeah, i'm happy
<charlie-tca> Okay, that is three on this one
<Sysi> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from Sysi. 3 for, 3 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 0
<charlie-tca> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 3 against. 0 abstained. Total: 0
<charlie-tca> knome: greens or blues on yours?
<knome> the more blue
<knome> http://www.flickr.com/photos/emunkki/5515540418/in/pool-uawt-7#/photos/emunkki/5515540418/in/pool-1546142@N20/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/emunkki/5515540418/in/pool-uawt-7#/photos/emunkki/5515540418/in/pool-1546142@N20/
<charlie-tca> [VOTE] http://www.flickr.com/photos/emunkki/5515540418/in/pool-uawt-7#/photos/emunkki/5515540418/in/pool-1546142@N20/
<MootBot> Please vote on:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/emunkki/5515540418/in/pool-uawt-7#/photos/emunkki/5515540418/in/pool-1546142@N20/.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<knome> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from knome. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<micahg> +1, but I suspect people will complain of eye strain :)
<beardygnome> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from beardygnome. 1 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 0
<charlie-tca> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from charlie-tca. 1 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
<knome> MootBot, err, that didn't count yet :)
<knome> err, micahg
<charlie-tca> count is 1
<knome> micahg said +1, but mootbot didn't register
<micahg> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from micahg. 2 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
<knome> :)
<Sysi> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Sysi. 3 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
<charlie-tca> count is 3
<knome> my wife is soon burning her sleeves since we are supposed to go home :P
<Sysi> i's need to go to sauna..
<charlie-tca> [ENDVOTE
<charlie-tca> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 1 against. 1 abstained. Total: 2
<charlie-tca> [VOTE] http://www.flickr.com/photos/pr09studio/5277600138/in/pool-1546142@N20/
<MootBot> Please vote on:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/pr09studio/5277600138/in/pool-1546142@N20/.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<charlie-tca> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from charlie-tca. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
<beardygnome> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from beardygnome. 0 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -2
<knome> -1
<pleia2> +1
<MootBot> -1 received from knome. 0 for, 3 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -3
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 1 for, 3 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -2
<Sysi> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from Sysi. 1 for, 4 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -3
<charlie-tca> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 1 for, 4 against. 0 abstained. Total: -3
<charlie-tca> count is one
 * micahg would've +1 that
<charlie-tca> then that is 2
<knome> micahg, speed is ace. :P
<micahg> sorry, E_TOOMANYTASKS
<knome> :P
<charlie-tca> [VOTE] http://www.flickr.com/photos/leogg/5247055287/in/pool-1546142@N20/
<MootBot> Please vote on:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/leogg/5247055287/in/pool-1546142@N20/.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<knome> again?
<charlie-tca> mistake
<knome> np ;)
<charlie-tca> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 0
<charlie-tca> [VOTE] http://www.flickr.com/photos/leogg/5224255554/in/pool-1546142@N20/
<MootBot> Please vote on:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/leogg/5224255554/in/pool-1546142@N20/.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<micahg> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from micahg. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<knome> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from knome. 1 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 0
<charlie-tca> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from charlie-tca. 1 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
<pleia2> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from pleia2. 1 for, 3 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -2
<Sysi> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from Sysi. 1 for, 4 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -3
<beardygnome> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from beardygnome. 2 for, 4 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -2
<charlie-tca> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 2 for, 4 against. 0 abstained. Total: -2
<charlie-tca> count is 2
<charlie-tca> and the last one is
<charlie-tca> [VOTE] http://www.flickr.com/photos/tylana/5343925114/in/pool-1546142@N20/
<MootBot> Please vote on:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/tylana/5343925114/in/pool-1546142@N20/.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<charlie-tca> =1
<micahg> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from micahg. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<charlie-tca> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from charlie-tca. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<knome> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from knome. 2 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<pleia2> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from pleia2. 2 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 0
<beardygnome> 0
<Sysi> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from Sysi. 2 for, 2 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
<beardygnome> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from beardygnome. 2 for, 2 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 0
<knome> (when did dolphins become the xubuntu mascot?? :))
<charlie-tca> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 2 for, 2 against. 2 abstained. Total: 0
<charlie-tca> Count is 2
<pleia2> (yeah, if it was mice..!)
<charlie-tca> the same time the umbrella did?
<pleia2> or the birds
<knome> we had two 3 votes
<knome> and 3 two votes
<knome> my suggestion: upload those to xubuntu now
<micahg> so, we should revote the 2 3s
<knome> then
<charlie-tca> I don't think the animal is the mascot, but rather representation of the OS
<knome> leave one week time for artists to finish off the design
<knome> and revote about the default
<pleia2> knome: +1
<charlie-tca> Why didn't the artists finish in 4 months?
<charlie-tca> but okay, I will grant a one week period.
<knome> charlie-tca, because you said that after this meeting the artists would get last directions to finish off
<charlie-tca> Ideas to pass to the man with umbrella to improve it?
<knome> i already commented it on the flickr page
<knome> there is some ideaqs
<knome> -q
<charlie-tca> Ideas to pass to the blue hues background to improve it?
<knome> note to self: add something for the eye to look for, like some subtle rays or sth
<Sysi> would it be better to test wallpapers as part of the theme?
<knome> and rework on the colors with better monitor
<beardygnome> i think it's a bit too plain
<pleia2> Sysi: yea, I was just thinking that
<knome> Sysi, of course.
<charlie-tca> Yes, it would be better if you have the time to do that
<knome> charlie-tca, there is this one week?
<charlie-tca> yes, knome
<knome> charlie-tca, considering the designs won't change too much (eg. i won't come up with a red wallpaper week later ;))
<charlie-tca> I think some rays in the blue hues would be great, maybe even a sunspot/light in order to draw the viewers eye
<knome> are we done with the wallpaper stuff for this week now?
<charlie-tca> yup
<knome> yup, i'll have to think about that.
<Sysi> and then we get screenshot with rest of natty artwork?
<knome> i did that image today
<charlie-tca> I will tally everything and ask mr_pouit and ochosi to package the top 5 for us
<knome> Sysi, thorwil did a "test wallpaper with theme" package
<knome> Sysi, i can work on some shots with the theme and the five candidates
<knome> charlie-tca, ^^
<charlie-tca> and I saw him come in to the meeting. Is he still here?
<thorwil> yes
<knome> no idea. i have ignored joins/parts
<charlie-tca> That would be great, knome
<knome> thorwil, i'll use your tool, sir :P
<charlie-tca> Welcome to our meeting, thorwil
<thorwil> :)
<knome> ...so, are we ready with the wallpapers...? :)
<charlie-tca> Can you tell where to grab your tool for these
<knome> i know
<charlie-tca> yup, knome
<charlie-tca> next week we vote on the best of two, right?
<knome> or all five.
<thorwil> five or two??
<knome> best two is okay as well.
<charlie-tca> Next week we vote on the best of two
<knome> since they *did* get more votes than the rest
<knome> okay, thanks
<knome> i'll go calm down my wife
<charlie-tca> Thank you
<knome> have a good rest of the meeting
<knome> no problem, see you later
<Sysi> i'd need to get to the sauna.. i'll read the log
<charlie-tca> thorwil: we are looking the blue hues and the man with umbrella for the default
<Sysi> (if you're too fast)
<charlie-tca> thanks, Sysi
<thorwil> charlie-tca: oh well, i hardly see a competition there
<thorwil> and i suspect you don't have to bother with any kind of art direction / specification for the release after next
<charlie-tca> If only... but I will let the community decide, at least the ones that show up
<charlie-tca> I think you are correct.
<charlie-tca> But I will get the top 5 or so included this release in the backgrounds, at least.
<thorwil> good
<charlie-tca> We got some really nice designs this time. I thank you for all your help on it
<charlie-tca> I guess we better get the packaging updates now, and get this meeting wound up
<thorwil> charlie-tca: your welcome
<charlie-tca> Your advice is greatly appreciated here.
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Packaging & Development
<MootBot> New Topic:  Packaging & Development
<charlie-tca> The packaging/dev report, nothing much: uploaded new greybird, fixed a few default settings' issues, and blacklisted a few indicators in xfce4-indicator (e.g. indicator-appmenu, we don't want it)
<charlie-tca> Also fixed a crash in xfce4-terminal, and patched xfce4-settings to solve the long standing bugs wrt sticky keys
<charlie-tca> And accessibility gains again!
<charlie-tca> That's all I have on Packaging and Development this week
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Bug Triage & Testing
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bug Triage & Testing
<charlie-tca> no update this week
<charlie-tca> any questions ?
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Website & Marketing
<MootBot> New Topic:  Website & Marketing
<charlie-tca> any updates, pleia2 ?
<pleia2> nothing beyond what we mentioned earlier in the meeting
<charlie-tca> Thank you
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Announcements
<MootBot> New Topic:  Announcements
<charlie-tca> We released Natty alpha3 last week, thanks to efforts of all involved!
<charlie-tca> We have a fast moving release cycle now, with the beta1 coming out March 31
<charlie-tca> Anyone wants to go to UDS-O needs to submit their application for sponsorship, please
<charlie-tca> You do not have to be a developer to go
<charlie-tca> any questions?
<micahg> nah, beta is normally a month before release
<charlie-tca> We have two betas and no rc this cycle
<micahg> right, but beta 1 isn't any earlier than normal
<charlie-tca> right
<charlie-tca> I just meant we can't slow down now
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Governance structure
<MootBot> New Topic:  Governance structure
<charlie-tca> I plan to put together a proposal to choose the new lead for xubuntu, most likely by community vote.
<beardygnome> but we on;t just voted on you charlie-tca
<beardygnome> *only
<charlie-tca> This will have to be added to the Xubuntu Strategy Document, existing at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument
<charlie-tca> yes, beardygnome
<charlie-tca> but there are no provisions in Xubuntu for how to pick a new lead
<charlie-tca> We kind of stumbled our way through it
<beardygnome> so you're proposing *how* we do it
<beardygnome> not that we need to do it now?
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> how to do it, correct
<beardygnome> cool
<charlie-tca> Please pass your suggestions for this to me, either by email, or on IRC in #xubuntu-devel
<charlie-tca> Being the way I am, it bothers me a lot
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Any Other Business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
<charlie-tca> Anyone want to bring up anything?
<micahg> o/
<charlie-tca> Go ahead, micahg
<micahg> is it worth still considering lightdm?
<charlie-tca> I thought it was too buggy?
<micahg> oh, hmm, haven't tried it yet, maybe I should testdrive it...
<charlie-tca> To me, it is always worth considering anything besides GDM
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit said it wouldn't work yet
<charlie-tca> but I don't remember the why?
<micahg> charlie-tca: ok, I trust him :)
<charlie-tca> Me too
<charlie-tca> that's why I dropped it
<charlie-tca> Anything else?
<micahg> getting a little late in the cycle, I just wanted to make sure it wasn't forgotten, ok, we can try for O :)
<charlie-tca> We will have another meeting in one week, March 17 at 19:00 UTC
<charlie-tca> We will pick a default wallpaper at that meeting.
<charlie-tca> thank you all for being here and participating! Teamwork!
<charlie-tca> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 14:06.
<Sysi> almost!
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-03-11
<czajkowski> persia: hope things are ok over there with you
<soren> czajkowski: I heard from him half an hour ago. He's ok.
<czajkowski> soren: thanks
<czajkowski> soren: just wondering about the others on the Asia/O membership board
<soren> czajkowski: No idea about those :(
<czajkowski> nods
<holstein> kees: hello
<holstein> would you have a minute, or mind a PM about an MIR issue?
<kees> holstein: sure, or ask in #ubuntu-devel in case I'm afk and other mir team folks can help
<holstein> kees: i think im making some progress :)
<holstein> not with an actual solution
<holstein> but talking to the proper folks :)
<holstein> i subscribed to the bugs
<holstein> and commented on them
<kees> okay, cool :)
<holstein> kees: do you have any ideas on how this can be resolved?
<holstein> *suggestions
<kees> holstein: cjwatson will be following up on it, iiuc.
<holstein> kees: thanks
<holstein> doko: ping
<ScottK> holstein: This channel is really for scheduled meetings.  You'd do better to use #ubuntu-devel.
<holstein> thanks ScottK
<holstein> this is related to the upcoming meeting
<ScottK> Yes, but it's not the actual meeting.
 * ara waves
 * skaet waves
 * joshuahoover waves
 * Daviey joins the mexican dance
<skaet> :)
<mvo> hello, I'm here for colin today
<skaet> hi mvo.   cool.
<skaet> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is skaet.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<skaet> [Topic] Natty overview - skaet_
<skaet> Reminder:   please use ".." on separate line when you've finished typing.   If someone wants to comment during the updates, please "o/", so we know to wait.
<skaet> .
<skaet> Agenda is at:
<skaet> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2011-03-11
<MootBot> New Topic:  Natty overview - skaet_
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2011-03-11
<skaet> Bugs have built up to a significant backlog for some teams, as of 2011/03/09 bugs for Natty that are high/critical were broken down as follows:
<skaet>       * kernel:   linux: 10   drivers: 13   ( 3 from 2010 )
<skaet>       * foundations:  28 ( 6 from 2010 )
<skaet>       * server: 5
<skaet>       * desktop: 16
<skaet>       * ubuntuone: 11 (2 from 2010 )
<skaet>       * kubuntu: 5 (3 from 2010 )
<skaet>       * desktop experience: 36 (5 from 2010 )
<skaet>       * arm: 11 (6 from 2010 )
<pitti> o/
<skaet> This is significantly up from where we were with maverick, so needs a bit of focus.
<skaet> .
<skaet> Milestoned bugs for beta 1 can be found:
<skaet> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.milestone=33574.
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.milestone=33574.
<skaet> Bugs targetted for this release can be found:
<skaet> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+bugs
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+bugs
<skaet> .
<skaet> Note that the renaming of beta to beta-1 caused some links to become inaccurate.  If you spot any that are broken, please let me know.
<skaet> .
<skaet> Upcoming Significant Dates:
<skaet> User Interface Freeze and Beta Freeze is March 24th (at 2300 UTC  ;) )
<skaet> Beta 1 Release is March 31st.
<skaet> questions?
<skaet> ..
<skaet> go pitti
<marjo> o/
<pitti> just waving hello, sorry
<pitti> ..
<skaet> lol
<marjo> ditto
<skaet> cool,  marjo?
<skaet> lol
<skaet> ok if no questions,  lets head into the round tables.
<skaet> [Topic] QA team update - marjo
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA team update - marjo
<marjo> hi folks
<marjo> lots to report again today
<marjo>  * Natty Beta 1 Work Items
<marjo>  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-platform-qa-ubuntu-11.04-beta-1.html
<marjo>  - Work items on track.
<marjo>  * Natty boot regression report
<marjo> This report includes the bug numbers submitted for systems that showed
<marjo> regressions from their Maverick boot speeds.
<marjo> System       Maverick  Natty     Diff  Bug Number
<marjo> ------       --------  --------  ----- ----------
<marjo> 201011-6750, 00:19.75, 00:18.39, -1.36, n/a
<marjo> 201101-7164, 00:28.80, 00:36.38, +7.58, 731016
<marjo> 201101-7174, 00:31.53, 00:39.46, +7.93, 731019
<marjo> 201101-7175, 00:25.13, 00:24.81, -0.32, n/a
<marjo> 201101-7183, 00:24.29, 00:31.45, +7.16, 731020
<marjo> 201101-7184, 00:16.60, 00:16.13, -0.47, n/a
<marjo> 201101-7185, 00:13.12, 00:18.13, +5.01, 731021
<marjo> sorry for the bad formatting
<marjo> The QA team will report on these boot metrics at the weekly Natty
<marjo> release meeting.
<marjo> The bug reports are submitted to the Ubuntu Boot Speed project [1].
<marjo> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-boot-speed
<marjo> Please give us feedback on the data presented and its format to make
<marjo> sure it's useful for all stakeholders.
<marjo> Thanks to HW Certification team (brendand) for the boot metrics data and Brian
<marjo> Murray (bdmurray) for the analysis and reporting.
<marjo> any questions so far?
<skaet> thanks for the data with the bug numbers
<marjo> skaet, these are the bugs of note for the QA team
<marjo>  * Blocking bugs
<marjo>  bug 711231
<marjo>  bug 717166
<marjo>  bug 729827
<marjo>  bug 711587
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 711231 in compiz (Ubuntu Natty) "compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in __pthread_mutex_lock()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/711231
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 717166 in eucalyptus (Ubuntu Natty) "Broken with v4 isc-dhcp-server in Natty" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/717166
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 729827 in unity (Ubuntu Natty) "at-spi-registry consumes most of the CPU and make the system unusable on Natty" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/729827
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 711587 in eucalyptus (Ubuntu Natty) "powernap and Eucalyptus seem unable to reach an understanding" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/711587
<marjo>  * QA Dashboard
<marjo>  http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/qadashboard/qadashboard.html
<marjo> Note unity, nux and linux are in both the "Last Day" and "Last 7 Days" metrics.
<marjo>  * Testing status:
<marjo>  Desktop Automated Testing results
<marjo> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/desktop-testing/natty/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/desktop-testing/natty/
<marjo> Number of 2D tests: 315
<marjo> Number of Unity tests: 296
<marjo> List of bugs found is at the bottom of page.
<marjo>  Server Automated Testing results
<marjo>  http://204.236.234.12/view/ISO-server-Natty/?
<marjo>  1 failure under investigation by hggdh.
<marjo>   Automatic Upgrade Testing
<marjo>   http://people.canonical.com/~mvo/automatic-upgrade-testing/current/
<marjo> per mvo,
<marjo> same bugs as before: sudo prompt and the openoffice file overwrite problem
<marjo> some tests removed, while waiting for disk space
<marjo> ..
<skaet> Thanks Marjo!  re: 711231,  why is a blocking bug only a medium importance?   can you look at that offline?
<marjo> skaet: will do
 * skaet still looking at the data
<skaet> any other questions?
<marjo> thx skaet
<skaet> ok,  will move on.  Thanks again for all that lovely data marjo,  will study a bit more after the meeting.
<marjo> skaet: yw
<skaet> [Topic] Hardware Certification team update - ara
<MootBot> New Topic:  Hardware Certification team update - ara
<ara> Hello! Happy Friday!
<skaet> :)
<ara> This week the testing went pretty well! Really good coverage:
<ara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/hw-testing/current
<ara> (and no broken images, soooo glad that the FF week is over)
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/hw-testing/current
<ara> Some highlights from this week testing:
<ara> The Tecra R700 is still failing resume:
<ara> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/708286
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/708286
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 708286 in linux (Ubuntu) "Resume after suspend not working - Toshiba Tecra R700" [Undecided,New]
<ara> Some systems are failing the fwts_test, that was supposed to be fixed in Natty. We are investigating the root cause.
<ara> And a couple of system didn't report back. We will investigate those.
<ara> Other than that, pretty good week in terms of HW quality!
<ara> Also, before I finish, I'd like to thank the QA team for setting up the automated installation testing for server, alternate and desktop. It is going to save us a lot of time!
<ara> ..
<marjo> ara: thx!
<skaet> thanks ara!
<marjo> thx to jibel!
<skaet> will look at the links after the meeting.
<skaet> any questions for ara?
<skaet> [Topic] Security team update - jdstrand
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security team update - jdstrand
<jdstrand> hi
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<skaet> :)
<jdstrand> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-security.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-security.html
<jdstrand> I just closed 15 kernel CVE bugs that had incorrect natty tasks, so that is nice. :) Fixed bug #728434, but otherwise there is not a lot to report. Our team has been focusing primarily on stable release updates.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 728434 in dbus (Ubuntu Natty) "[natty] dbus fails to install in a schroot" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/728434
<jdstrand> We have no remaining milestoned features for beta. We have a couple of low priority bugs for beta. We are below the trend line on work items overall.
<jdstrand> ..
<skaet> thanks jdstrand!
<skaet> and thanks for closing the bugs that had incorrect natty tasks!  :D
<skaet> any questions?
<jdstrand> sure! :)
<skaet> [Topic] Kernel team update - apw
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel team update - apw
 * skaet looks around for kernel team member and wonders if she's missed an email....:P
<skaet> ok, we'll come back to them later.
<skaet> [Topic] Foundations team update - mvo
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations team update - mvo
<mvo> Work items:
<mvo> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-foundations.html
<mvo> Looking good
<mvo> Beta-1:
<mvo> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-foundations-ubuntu-11.04-beta-1.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-foundations.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-foundations-ubuntu-11.04-beta-1.html
<mvo> Mostly good, but the remaining bits of "other-foundations-n-disconnected-upgrade" will have to be postponed (blocked on decision how the meta-release file should be mirrored/handled)
<mvo> Team activity:
<mvo> Colin 'x86 asm' Watson fixed critical wubi/grub bug#693671!
<mvo> Team did upstart 0.9.x work, fixed long standing #436936 (gdm) bug, ubiquity slideshow improvements, wubi improvements/fixes, fixes, general bugfixing, ubuntu-distributed-development work, apt/aptdaemon/software-center/apt-clone work, work on event based initramfs
<mvo> (done)
<skaet> thanks mvo!   good news about 693671 and those other bugs...  :)
<mvo> indeed
<skaet> any questions?
<skaet> [Topic] Server team update - Daviey
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server team update - Daviey
<Daviey> Hello!
<skaet> :)
<Daviey> General Release Status:
<Daviey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<Daviey> Quick Burn down for features:
<Daviey> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-server-ubuntu-11.04-beta-1.html
<Daviey> == Work Items ==
<Daviey> Generally we are making good progress with the work items.  Other than those below, the ones under the progress are work items which are largely limited to documentation, or not relevant for the distro release.  Such as webtrial.
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-server-ubuntu-11.04-beta-1.html
<Daviey> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/cloud-server-n-install-service
<Daviey>  -- RoAkSoAx is taking some of the burden of this, some parts may be defered, but expecting rapid progress.
<Daviey> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/cloud-server-n-automated-testing
<Daviey>  -- Currently under progress, will be used to help QA cloud images (tradional testing used in conjunction)
<Daviey> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-server-n-drizzle-integration
<Daviey>  -- Awaiting an update
<Daviey> == Milestoned Bugs ==
<Daviey> = Outstanding =
<Daviey>     561779 - squid - squid is not started on runlevel transition 1 -> 2.
<Daviey>     727286 - libvirt - apparmor is blocking libvirt-bin from accessing folders in "/
<Daviey> = In progress =
<Daviey>     697753 - bittorrent recommendation prevents bittorrent demotion
<Daviey>         *REALLY* Will be fixed in next upload (sorry).
<Daviey>     711587 - powernap and Eucalyptus seem unable to reach an understanding
<Daviey>         RoAkSoAx investigating, good progress
<Daviey>     717166 - Eucalyptus - Broken with v4 isc-dhcp-server in Natty
<Daviey>         Working with upstream to resolve
<Daviey>     580319 - dhcp3-server launches before upstart brings all interface, thus failing to start
<Daviey>         Assigned to JamesHunt
<Daviey>     732759 - [FFe] [needs-packaging] python-ethtool
<Daviey>          Awaiting ~ubuntu-release giving FFe.
<Daviey>     727342 - package open-vm-dkms 2010.06.16-268169-3ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: open-vm-tools kernel module failed to build
<Daviey>          Serge spent significant time trying to cherry pick a patch to work with newer kernels.  It's looking like a new upstream version is the best, so he will be seeking a FFe to land that.
<Daviey> = Not critical f
<Daviey> = Not critical for release =
<Daviey>     727286 - apparmor is blocking libvirt-bin from accessing folders in "/"
<Daviey>         jdstrand investigating
<Daviey> == Other ==
<Daviey> The axisc2 bug that has been keeping us awake at night for the last few months has been fixed by janimo, so he our hero of the week.  He can claim his berverage from me at UDS.
<Daviey> ...
<jdstrand> investigating is strong
<jdstrand> or weak
<jdstrand> I know precisely what it is :)
<skaet> Thanks Daviey!   appreciate the details,  will study and folllow up after the meeting.
<Daviey> (Life is good, most serious bug on server is still bug #717166, and upstream are going to be more responsive)
 * jdstrand stops derailing the meeting now
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 717166 in eucalyptus (Ubuntu Natty) "Broken with v4 isc-dhcp-server in Natty" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/717166
<Daviey> jdstrand, Oh, you are - you just don't know it yet
<skaet> very happy to see the axisc2 bug gone as well.  :D
<skaet> [Topic] Desktop team update - pitti
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop team update - pitti
<pitti> Blueprint implementation:
<pitti>  * On track for entire cycle
<pitti>  * beta-1: not much progress last week, but the actual implementation bits are mostly done; remaining WIs fall into those categories:
<pitti>   * Adding unit tests, human testing, etc. (not bound by FF or other freezes; b1 milestone was used mainly for planning)
<pitti>   * Some remaining a11y work for Unity; worked on by DX, we just need to integrate once it's landing
<pitti>   * Porting remaining software to xulrunner-2.0 (not really bound by FF, but should be done soon); stragglers will be removed from the archive; the main blocker here is swt-gtk which is required by eucalyptus, as discussed last week
<pitti>   * Quickly improvements, which are blocked on Launchpad improvements; will likely be postponed
<pitti>   * Sofware-Center UI enhancements: Some are probably done, but some implementation work left; will discuss with Gary
<pitti> General status:
<pitti>  * Another Unity release with a lot of bug fixes; now brings real keyboard navigation
<pitti>  * CD oversizedness got resolved now
<pitti>  * We finally fixed Firefox translations in langpack-o-matic; new packs uploaded, working well now
<pitti>  * openoffice.org â  libreoffice transitional packages/upgrades are still being worked out; yesterday we landed the dictionaries and thesauri, and the transitional oo.o made through NEW
<pitti> RC bugs:
<pitti>  - no current blockers, just the usual manpower issue
<pitti>  - details at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus#rcbugs
<pitti> ..
<skaet> Thanks pitti!
<skaet> will dig into the rcbugs link later.
<skaet> any questions?
<skaet> [Topic] Ubuntu One Team - joshuahoover
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu One Team - joshuahoover
<joshuahoover> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/NattyReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/NattyReleaseStatus
<joshuahoover> details on where we're at with our natty work and releases are in the link above
<joshuahoover> FFE update... Bindwood FFE bug #648587 should be landing next week & ubuntuone-couch in universal bug #729117 is getting uploaded by kenvandine
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 648587 in Bindwood "[FFE] bindwood is incompatible with Firefox 4" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/648587
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 729117 in Ubuntu "[FFE] Add ubuntuone-couch to universe " [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/729117
<joshuahoover> the list of bugs we're working on currently can be found in the link i posted earlier...i don't think there are any worth highlighting in particular
<joshuahoover> this week we've been updating our acceptance test cases related to natty/unity...more on that next week :)
<joshuahoover> and that's it for this week for u1 - questions?
<joshuahoover> --
<skaet> thanks joshuahoover!   will look into the bugs and get back to you offline.  :)
<joshuahoover> skaet: cool :)
<skaet> [Topic] Kubuntu Team update - Riddell
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kubuntu Team update - Riddell
<ScottK> Riddell is away at kde.conf.in this week.
<ScottK> We've landed KDE SC 4.6.1.
<ScottK> The arm team made some good progress for us on Qt on arm.
<ScottK> Still waiting to hear when they want to switch back to gcc4.5.
<ScottK> Arm gl -> gles transition is making good progress.
<ScottK> (plasma-mobile will now run gl free on armel)
<ScottK> n900 kernel is in the archive and working now thanks to jdstrand for doing the New review.
<ScottK> ..
<skaet> Thanks ScottK!
<skaet> gcc 4.5 is still getting resolved.
<doko> is resolved
<skaet> sweet.  :)
<ScottK> Yes.  I'm just waiting to see if the arm team is ready to upload Qt building with it.
<ScottK> I think they wanted to test the neon and volatile IT changes.
<ScottK> I imagine ogra knows ...
<skaet> doko,  can you give us all an update on where we are with gcc 4.5 at the end of the meeting, and what we should be expecting?
<ScottK> Any more questions?
 * skaet hopes doko will stick around and compose a summary while we're working through the rest..
<doko> skaet: will drop off in 5min. see my email to you. can do it later offline
<ogra> ScottK, right, NEON test still pending
<ScottK> ogra: Any idea when that can get done?
<skaet> thanks doko.   will follow up offline then.
<ogra> ScottK, i know its on GrueMasters TODO
<ogra> with pretty high prio
<ScottK> If it's going to be very long, it might be better to go ahead and upload Qt building against 4.5 rather than wait.
<skaet> thanks again,  will move on now.
<skaet> [Topic] Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth
<skaet> anyone else around from DX team?   oubiwann,  njpatel?
<oubiwann> skaet: here
<oubiwann> skaet: I don't have dbarth_'s notes, though :-/
<skaet> thanks oubiwann,  is there an update from DX team this week?
 * skaet figures they're probably working on that nasty long bug list... ;)
<skaet> ok,  will follow up with dbarth off list
<oubiwann> yeah, they've been pounding away at it
<skaet> [Topic] ARM team update - ogra
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM team update - ogra
<ogra> Status is at:
<ogra> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARMTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<ogra> ..
<ogra> Summary:
<ogra>  * Qt should be fixed so far, we are still waiting for tests on non-NEON arches.
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARMTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<ogra>  * OMAP4 TI kernel was switched to .38 but is not on the images yet.
<ogra>  * unity-2d bugfix update will land this weekend
<ogra>  * Mono ARM research is going on, NCommander rebuilds various versions to have comparison data
<ogra>  * ARM specific FTBFS list is shrinking
<ogra> ..
<ogra> Image status:
<ogra>  * Netbook images are building fine (move to new kernel pending)
<ogra>  * New headless image was introduced this week
<ogra> Specs:
<ogra> Entire status: http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel.html
<ogra> Milestone: http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel-ubuntu-11.04-beta-1.html
<ogra> ..
<dbarth_> ah sorry
<skaet> thanks ogra!
<dbarth_> skaet: o/
<skaet> dbarth_,  cool,  we'll come back to you next.
<skaet> ogra,  will the .38 kernel land next week?
<ogra> skaet, its already in the archive, the meta didnt make it in time to make it land on todays image
<skaet> cool.  :)
<ogra> and it requires some image changes too
<ogra> (needs video options set on cmdline currently)
<ogra> the video driver is, while it currently works, still WIP
<skaet> ok, will keep an eye open for some churn then.
<skaet> [Topic] MOTU team update - ScottK
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU team update - ScottK
<ScottK> Hello again.
<skaet> :)
<ScottK> The decision to revert the DSO linking changes for this cycle helps us hugely in terms of buildability.
<ScottK> Hopefully Debian will start the python2.7 transition soon and so we may benefit from fixes in Debian.
<ScottK> Nothing major to report.  There's some NBS to deal with, but it seems reasonable.
<ScottK> ..
<skaet> Thanks ScottK!  any questions?
<skaet> [Topic] Desktop Experience team update - dbarth_
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Experience team update - dbarth_
<dbarth_> ok
<dbarth_> now i'm here
<skaet> :)
<dbarth_> the report is at the usual location: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/NattyReleaseStatus
<dbarth_> the list of FFEs is maintained here with the corresponding bugs
<dbarth_> quick overview of the bug fixes: 71 fixes for unity only this week
<dbarth_> the team made 2 releases
<dbarth_> the overlay scrollbar appeared on the release radar however, and we're now working with platform to fix bugs and have a list of safe applications for it
<dbarth_> also work on GL driver support (see QA section at the bottom) to make a matrix of supported configurations
<dbarth_> we got the first batch of results from victor's team (thanks ara) and marjo's team will help us complete that with the help of the community
<dbarth_> foundations
<dbarth_> sound indicator release: always getting better
<dbarth_> indicators and dbusmenu fixes: the alt keys / accelerators bugs are slowly getitng fixed; we're missing a fix at unity's level now, but that should be quick next week
<dbarth_> a11y: lots of fixes as well
<dbarth_> but places a11y was out of reach for this week
<dbarth_> will re-evaluate next week
<dbarth_> and that's it
<dbarth_> ...
<dbarth_> questions? tomatoes?
<dbarth_> ..
<skaet> thanks dbarth_!   great to see the number of fixes coming in!   when do you estimate scrollbar to be ready to include?
<dbarth_> once we have that list of known/good apps
<dbarth_> ie, next week
<dbarth_> (can't be later than that)
<dbarth_> overall cimi has been able to fix bugs rather quickly
<dbarth_> 11 or so still open
<dbarth_> and huge perf. improvements were made this afternoon
<dbarth_> in apps where it was not that good (evolution comes to mind)
<dbarth_> (yes we can make evolution fast ;)
<skaet> Cool  :)    can you please ping me directly before scrollbar lands, so we can juggle it in with some of the other changes on toolchains, etc.
<dbarth_> skaet: sure
<dbarth_> skaet: it should be on thursday, for our regular upload window
<skaet> thanks dbarth_!
<skaet> any other questions?
<skaet> [Topic] Linaro update - JamieBennett
<MootBot> New Topic:  Linaro update - JamieBennett
<JamieBennett> o/
<JamieBennett> So we have a new Linaro kernel package coming soon
<JamieBennett> to fix some panda display issues we've been having (amongst other bugs)
<JamieBennett> also some systemtap v1.3 enablement
<JamieBennett> slangasek: is working on some apt and dpkg patches that will land very soon for multi-arch support
<JamieBennett> Other than that we don't have many other intersections
<JamieBennett> ..
<skaet> thanks JamieBennett
<skaet> :)
<slangasek> apt has indeed landed, thanks mvo ; dpkg waiting for upstream sign-off before I upload; I'll send a FFe request for the changes to the other libs packages
<skaet> thanks slangasek
<skaet> any questions?
<skaet> [Topic] any other kudos/comments/questions?
<MootBot> New Topic:  any other kudos/comments/questions?
<holstein> skaet: i have something
<holstein> if this is the general open portion
<skaet> hi holstein!  welcome.
<holstein> skaet: thanks :)
<holstein> relating to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dbus-c++/+bug/730759
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 730759 in dbus-c++ (Ubuntu Natty) "[MIR] b-d for libffado" [High,Incomplete]
<holstein> and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libconfig/+bug/730760
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 730760 in libconfig (Ubuntu Natty) "[MIR] b-d for libffado" [High,Incomplete]
<holstein> and demoting libffado from main
<holstein> we (ubuntustudio) need that in the main repo
<holstein> and im not really sure what i can do now to help resolve the issue
<holstein> BUT
<holstein> i commented on the bugs
<pitti> are dbus-c++ and libconfig not appropriate for main?
<holstein> and im trying to sort it out ASAP
<holstein> pitti: im not sure what the deal is exactly
<pitti> libconfig just needs a package fix to add symbol files (should go to debian as well)
<holstein> pitti: that sounds easy
<holstein> who do i talk to about it?
<pitti> you can't/don't want to fix yourself?
<Daviey> looks like holstein is happy to chase this issue, i wonder if doko would help liase with him offline.
<pitti> any ubuntu dev should be able to do it really
<holstein> pitti: i will if i can
 * holstein is a musician
<holstein> im not a total newb
<holstein> but im not quite up to the task im afraid
<holstein> yeah, chasing is not a problem
<Daviey> holstein, Lets track it, and discuss it in -devel.
<holstein> OR if its something i can read about and learn to fix
<holstein> im in
<pitti> the other is a bigger problem -- if the package is orphaned in Debian, someone in Ubuntnu needs to maintain it
<holstein> pitti: i could probably find that too
<holstein> a maintainer
<holstein> i can ask
<pitti> otherwise we need to disable the feature, or roll back to an earlier version (which isn't a long-term solution, though)
<pitti> holstein: someone from ubuntustudio ideally, as they would care most about this, perhaps?
<holstein> pitti: right, i have a few ideas
<Daviey> (mythbuntu dropped the dep on it today BTW)
<holstein> pitti: i am from ubuntustudio ;)
<pitti> for now, adding symbols files would come a long way towards making it more appropriate
<holstein> we have some new actual dev-types though
<holstein> pitti: can i contact you about this?
<holstein> with questions or whatever?
<holstein> and what kind of time frame are we talking?
<pitti> I guess dbus-C++ doesn't need a lot of maintenance, it's just a binding
<holstein> a week?
<holstein> couple days?
<pitti> holstein: yeah, I hang out in devel
<pitti> holstein: by beta-1 would be good
<skaet> holstein, thanks for bringing the issue up.    yeah getting this all resolved before beta-1 would be good.
<holstein> skaet pitti - that should not be a problem
<holstein> i'll chase it, and thank you
<skaet> :)
<skaet> One other bit... heard from kernel team.   Will be adding note from them into minutes.
<skaet> anyone else?
<skaet> thank you marjo, ara, jdstrand, smb,  mvo, pitti, Daviey, ScottK, joshuahoover, dbarth_,  doko, ogra, holstein
<skaet> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:02.
<ara> thanks skaet!
<joshuahoover> thank you skaet!
<jdstrand> skaet: thanks!
<pitti> thanks everyone
<mvo> thanks!
<marjo> skaet: thx!
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-03-12
<zkriesse> Ubuntu Youth Team Meeting in three minutes
<zkriesse> Show your hand if you're here for said meeting
<hakimsheriff> here
<Mkaysi> o/
<Mkaysi> Oops, too soon.
<zkriesse> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:00. The chair is zkriesse.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<zkriesse> [Topic] Welcome to the Ubuntu Youth Team Meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Welcome to the Ubuntu Youth Team Meeting
<zkriesse> Ok, show your hands if you're here for the Ubuntu Youth Team meeting
<serfus> o/
<zkriesse> If we only get a few I'm going to cancel said meeting here and just move it over to #ubuntu-youth
<nisshh> here
<Mkaysi> Oops, too soon.
<Mkaysi> o/
<serfus> i know AndrewMC is in camp, so he will not attend
<zkriesse> Yes i know
<nisshh> 4 people? is that it?
<zkriesse> anyone else?
<nisshh> dont think so
<zkriesse> Frack
<zkriesse> Ok, let's end this here and move to #ubuntu-youth
<zkriesse> Rather not tie up the channel here
<zkriesse> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:03.
<nisshh> agreed
<hakimsheriff> im here
<Mkaysi> hakimsheriff: #ubuntu-youth
<JackyAlcine> o/
<topyli> time for the ircc meeting. who's around?
<nhandler> o/
<tsimpson> I'm here
<topyli> alright. afaik we shouldn't expect the others today. we have quorum
<topyli> [startmeeting]
<nhandler> topyli: #startmeeting
<topyli> @startmeeting
<topyli> yah
<topyli> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 13:03. The chair is topyli.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<topyli> when i said i can chair, i didn't mean it. just that i'm willing
<topyli> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda
<topyli> i see no new bugs
<topyli> one of these days we should close the "ubuntu too busy" bug one way or another
<nhandler> Agreed topyli. There realy isn't a good solution to that at this time imo
<topyli> i would close it as wontfix. i don't agree that it's too busy anyway
<topyli> or notabug, do we have such a resolution available?
<tsimpson> [link] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bug/392799
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bug/392799
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 392799 in ubuntu-community "#ubuntu too noisy to be useful" [Medium,In progress]
<nhandler> topyli: That would be 'invalid'
<topyli> ah yes
<ScottK> That actually looks like opinion.  First valid use of that state I think I've seen.
<tsimpson> I think the support guys do a good job of directing uses to more specific channels when appropriate anyway
<nhandler> I agree it is busy, but I'm not sure I agree that it is a bug. But I can see why some people do.
<nhandler> ScottK: I forgot they added that status. I agree
<nhandler> tsimpson: +1
<topyli> agreed
<nhandler> I think the 'opinion' status might be the best "solution" to this bug at this time
<topyli> yeah
<topyli> we can leave it there, people can add comments if they have any. it's been quiet though
<tsimpson> you can't "delete" a bug anyway
<topyli> yep
<topyli> ok
<topyli> action items. i did the ubottu bug chattiness stats
<nhandler> I don't think jussi got to his item (and he is on vacation now)
<tsimpson> we still have https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bug/680052 which I think is inactive
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 680052 in ubuntu-community "#ubuntu-us-ca logging needs search indexing blocked" [Undecided,New]
<tsimpson> and there's really nothing _we_ can do about it
<topyli> true
<nhandler> tsimpson: Probably best to just unassign us from it
<nhandler> Back to action review, I took care of the IRC Members team action
<nhandler> topyli: Did you update the wiki?
<topyli> elky sent the mail about the bug parsing
<topyli> nhandler: oh yes. i did
<nhandler> tsimpson: Is the private logging of -ops-team also sorted (I know the channel was setup)
<tsimpson> I have ubottu currently logging there
<tsimpson> in a secret place while I try and integrate LP into authentication
<nhandler> Great. So besides jussi's one item, everything appears to be done
<topyli> we rock
<topyli> so about the bug logging in #ubuntu, its chattines averages at 3.8 lines per day so it's not a problem IMO
<nhandler> topyli: I agree. We had some complaints at first, but 3.8 lines is a VERY small percent of the daily chat that takes place in there
<nhandler> tsimpson: Thoughts?
<tsimpson> I think ~4 lines per day is worth it
<nhandler> Looks like we are in agreement then
<topyli> someone also referenced several X bugs within a few minutes, so i think it was useful to figuring out a problem in that case
<topyli> (i didn't have time to actually study the logs to see the context properly)
<nhandler> It is also fairly trivial to disable this feature in the future if it starts being abused or anything like that
<topyli> yes
<topyli> so we agree to leave it enabled?
<nhandler> Yep
<tsimpson> I don't see any reason to not
<topyli> [AGREED] leave the ubottu bug feature enabled in #ubuntu
<MootBot> AGREED received:  leave the ubottu bug feature enabled in #ubuntu
<topyli> [topic] Add eir to #ubuntu
<MootBot> New Topic:  Add eir to #ubuntu
<tsimpson> didn't we already discuss the eir item last time?
<topyli> we did. i thought there's some new development on the issues since it's on the agenda :)
<topyli> issue
<nhandler> I kept it on the agenda, as we still had some issues to sort out (which I was hoping we would have done by now)
<nhandler> I'm still having some difficulty finding the arguments for/against ubottu's channel notices in -ops. This is making the topic of eir's notices hard to address
<nhandler> If anyone could find and tell me when/where to find those arguments, it would be very useful
<nhandler> As for the ubottu changes needed for eir, I don't believe anything has changed since the last meeting
<tsimpson> I think the main objection to it is the generalization that "notices are bad"
<topyli> it would be useful to know how many actually think so, though
<nhandler> Well, I would disagree with that generalization. Notices are actually appropriate for certain types of messages (and IRC clients should respond to them appropriately)
<tsimpson> I'm tinkering with getting ubottu to understand comments to eir, the main issue is that the bot needs to know which ban ID to associate the comment with
<tsimpson> nhandler: sure, but lots of our ops were taught that "channel notices are a banable offence", hence the feeling
<nhandler> tsimpson: That is mainly because most of those notices are spam and not sent in appropriate situations
<nhandler> tsimpson: As for the ubottu issue, it is rather nasty, but ubottu could query eir to figure out the ban string a certain eir id represents. It could then take that ban string to find the right ban in the BT
<nhandler> But there really isn't much more to discuss on this topic right now. We need to find the old arguments so we can see whether they are even still applicable in this situation
<topyli> maybe we leave the item standing while the technicalities are figured out
<nhandler> topyli: Yep. And maybe a general ACTION for the Ubuntu OPs to help us find those old arguments? ;)
<topyli> [action] ops to datamine for arguments against notices in -ops
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ops to datamine for arguments against notices in -ops
<topyli> :)
<topyli> [topic] Review #ubuntu-ops-team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review #ubuntu-ops-team
<topyli> from what i see, -ops-team works
<nhandler> I haven't seen it being overly necessary (from the discussions taking place there), but I also haven't seen it being used in an inappropriate way. I'd be willing to keep it open and review it again further down the road
<tsimpson> it hasn't turned into a troll-pit yet, that's a good sign ;)
<tsimpson> and there's already been some inter-ops team work done in there from what I see
<topyli> yes it's not -ops-rant, at least yet
<topyli> if anything, i'd like to see many of the discussions taking place in -ops move there
<topyli> (i don't want to push that though, just a thought)
<tsimpson> obviously it'll take some time for people to get used to using the channel
<nhandler> I'm not sure what discussions you are talking about topyli, so I can't really respond to that. I still like the idea of things being open and transparant when possible
<tsimpson> we tried open and transparent, our ops were targeted for it
<topyli> nhandler: some disagreements on specific cases mostly
<topyli> better off unlogged imo
<nhandler> tsimpson: Note the 'when possible'
<serfus> who does qualify for this channel? i remember not only core ops, right?
<tsimpson> nhandler: I still expect -ops to be the main channel for our ops to communicate
<nhandler> So do we want to just add a 'review -ops-team' item to the agenda for a month or two down the road?
<topyli> serfus: some ops from big non-core channels are invited as well
<tsimpson> nhandler: yeah, I think it should be continuously reviewed for a while yet
<topyli> agreed. let's keep it and review it from time to time
<nhandler> Maybe add that to the calendar so we don't forget?
<tsimpson> sure, monthly is probably a good time-frame
<topyli> monthly at first perhaps?
<topyli> heh
<tsimpson> eventually we'll get annoyed with reviewing it, and we'll know it's a success ;)
<topyli> so we have a success metric too. perfect!
<topyli> [agreed] keep -ops-team, review it monthly for an undefined while
<MootBot> AGREED received:  keep -ops-team, review it monthly for an undefined while
<topyli> i can action the calendar
<topyli> should we have a chat about it on meetings?
<topyli> s/on/in
<topyli> like every second meeting we see if the channel is okay
<tsimpson> well, if we review it monthly it would be every second meeting anyway
<topyli> yeah but it could happen outside meetings too
<tsimpson> we can just state in the meeting that we continue to approve it, and only go into details if we have concerns
<topyli> good
<topyli> it's more open that way too
<tsimpson> we should probably add it to the fixed agenda items so we don't forget
<tsimpson> well, add it temporarily
<nhandler> Or at least [ACTION] it so we review it when we review outstanding actions
<tsimpson> nhandler: then we'd be actioning it every month, rather than just once
<topyli> i'd add it to the fixed items for now. if we're unsure whether it's time, we can check the calendar :)
<tsimpson> I know it's not exactly a "fixed" item, but it will be one of the first things we see when we look at the agenda
<topyli> actually this is more complicated than just say whether the channel is ok or not in every meeting :)
<topyli> ok, solution: i'll add a fixed item saying we'll review -ops-team if it's a saturday
<topyli> anything else?
<nhandler> Nope
<tsimpson> that's it
<topyli> alright
<topyli> [action] topyli to do post-meeting stuff
<MootBot> ACTION received:  topyli to do post-meeting stuff
<topyli> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:49.
<topyli> thanks guys
<topyli> 13:49?
<tsimpson> it's local time where ever MootBot is
<topyli> the bot must be running on an unconfigured win95 box, they default to tijuana time
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-03-13
<NRWlion> Hello every1
<NRWlion> holla sergio!
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-03-05
<mas999> Hiiii
<mas999> no one?
<jdstrand> o/
 * sbeattie waves hello
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Mar  5 18:02:29 2012 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jjohansen> \o
<micahg> o/
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<jdstrand> * Thanks
<jdstrand> Kilian Krause (kilian) from Debian provided debdiffs for lucid for fex (DSAs 2414 and 2259)
<jdstrand> Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job! :)
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Review of any previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review of any previous action items
<jdstrand> ACTION: sbeattie to follow up on qrt bugs from QA team
<sbeattie> Yep, did that (finally)
<jdstrand> \o/
<jdstrand> sbeattie: thanks :)
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I finally got caught up on archive admin work
<jdstrand> I'm in the happy place this week and hope to catch up on MIR security audits
<jdstrand> there is an embargoed issue I am working on
<jdstrand> and maybe I can pick back up some pending updates
<jdstrand> if not by the end of the week, certainly next week
<jdstrand> (assuming nothing else comes up)
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're next
<mdeslaur> I'm on triage this week
<mdeslaur> I released lightdm updates this morning, and am currently testing flashplugin-nonfree
<mdeslaur> and then I have an embargoed issue I'm working on
<mdeslaur> I have a few security bugs to research
<mdeslaur> and then will pick other updates from the list
<mdeslaur> that's it from me
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're it
<sbeattie> I'm in the happy place this week
<sbeattie> I'm still working on my glibc update
<sbeattie> Once that's done, I'll be focusing on apparmor userspace bugs/workitems
<sbeattie> that's pretty much it for me.
<sbeattie> is micahg back?
<micahg> yes
<jdstrand> micahg: it's your turn
<micahg> I uploaded chromium earlier this morning and will be testing that, still trying to get the Firefox/icedtea crash fixed (now with new upstream commit :)), and time permitting webkit, this is also the week before Mozilla's rapid release day, so I'll be staging and testing anything that's available this week
<micahg> jdstrand: I know, just a little slow typing :)
<micahg> that's it for me I think, tyhicks?
<tyhicks> I'm handling community this week
<jdstrand> micahg: let me test chromium when it goes to -proposed again.
<micahg> jdstrand: as you wish
<tyhicks> I will start on a gnutls update
<tyhicks> and work on an embargoed issue
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen?
<jjohansen> well, I need to post out the revisions to the upstream kernel patches
<jjohansen> and debug some mount failures, that people are running into
<jjohansen> I am testing the fix to minimization, and we should be able to get that uploaded today too
<jjohansen> other than that /me wants to try picking off his remaining work items this week
<jjohansen> thats it for me I think jdstrand back to you
<jdstrand> thanks
<jdstrand> micahg: I meant to ask: how is the webkit progress?
<micahg> well, if I can spend a little bit of time on it, I should be able to start uploading some test builds to my PPA this week
<jdstrand> awesome!
 * jdstrand hopes the chromium testing helps there
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/slim.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/icecast2.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libdigest-perl.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/xfce4-session.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/djbdns.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> we do have one topic to discuss:
<jdstrand> * Discuss another non-native PPA for staging SRUs and development packages
<jdstrand> this came up as a result of internal discussions
<mdeslaur> non-native?
<jdstrand> the basic idea is this-- we have PPAs for our security updates, but not our dev work
<jdstrand> actually, s/non-native//
<jdstrand> no decisions are made (sorry)
<jdstrand> would it be helpful to have a team ppa that we all have enabled, for the dev release or SRUs
<jdstrand> we wouldn't have any mandatory process around it at this time
<jdstrand> but, for example, if sbeattie was preparing an apparmor userspace upload, or jjohansen a kernel upload, or me a ufw upload and we wanted others from the team to test it, we upload there
<jdstrand> and then everyone just gets it automatically
<jdstrand> is it worthwhile?
<tyhicks> jdstrand: This ppa would only be enabled on our machines that we do not use for security update testing, right?
<jdstrand> tyhicks: yes. this is for dev work, not security updates
<jjohansen> is it any better than having a separate ppa for each project?
<jdstrand> tyhicks: ie, you might upload ecryptfs there
<jdstrand> jjohansen: it is only better in that it is a one stop for all our dev work
<tyhicks> gotcha
<jdstrand> ie, we decide we all run with that ppa enable
<jdstrand> enabled
<jdstrand> as opposed to having 7 different ppas enabled
<jdstrand> (or whatever)
<jjohansen> hrmm, down side is you can't be selective about which ppa you have enabled
<jdstrand> I don't have a staging ppa for ufw anyway, so I think it could help with that sort of thing too
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: this isn't for experimental stuff, right? this is for "I'm ready to upload, but want some more testing first"?
<jdstrand> jjohansen: this is meant to be for fairly stable stuff-- we don't want to break our teammates machines. we can always do that in other ppas
<mdeslaur> ie: you wouldn't push apparmor dbus stuff in there
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: correct
<jdstrand> the idea is this is a 'testing' ppa for what is eventually going to hit the archive
<tyhicks> experimental ppa'
<jdstrand> whether it be the dev release or an SRU (I imagine this is less useful for SRUs since we typically run the dev release)
<tyhicks> oops... experimental ppa's would be the daily build ppa's
<jdstrand> tyhicks: yes, or soemthing else
<jdstrand> again, this should be fairly stable
<tyhicks> yep
<sbeattie> jdstrand: well, some of us do have stable release machines around as well
 * jdstrand nods
 * sbeattie looks askance at his build server
 * sbeattie is not sure he's got security-proposed enabled everywhere it could be.
<sbeattie> generally, I'm in favor of this; I do think it should probably be a seperate ppa from security-proposed.
<jdstrand> so, this isn't meant to be an administrative burden. it is meant to allow us to more easily and test the stuff we are uploading
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you do know I upload completely untested stuff to security-proposed, right? :)
<micahg> as do I :)
<jdstrand> eg, my 2.8beta1 apparmor upload might have gone there
<sbeattie> mdeslaur, micahg: and that's different from the stuff going into devel how? :-)
<jdstrand> (it was something I did test and run, but might have been nice to have others run it for a bit before uploading to the archive proper)
<jdstrand> I really wanted to test jjohansen's recent kernel-- this could have been something we all could have just gotten 'for free'
<tyhicks> jdstrand: It makes sense to me. Instead of everyone being affected by a new bug, it would result in potentially just our team being affected. We would have been affected anyways, if we didn't have this buffer ppa to catch it early.
<jdstrand> tyhicks: yes
<jjohansen> jdstrand: uh kernel builds from ppas are an absolute pita
<tyhicks> If we have systems that are a bit too critical for something like this, we just don't enable it on those systems.
<mdeslaur> yeah, the kernel is probably a bad example there
<jdstrand> I am not advocating this running everywhere
<jdstrand> I am only advocating is use for the dev release. we can use it for SRUs if people want. the stuff we upload should be solid in our minds, not experimental :)
<jdstrand> re kernel> not sure why, we use to build them all the time in our ppa, but whatever. let's not get hung up on that detail
<jdstrand> in other words> whatever machine you are running the dev release on, just enable this ppa too
<jdstrand> (not necessarily testing VMs)
<jdstrand> do we agree that it could be worthwhile? if we don't like it, we don't need to continue using it
<tyhicks> I don't see any negatives. I would have gotten the update on my development release machines either way.
<sbeattie> jdstrand: +1 from me.
<tyhicks> The only possible negative is that it adds a bit of a delay to the update receiving testing from a wider audience, but I don't consider that a big issue
<tyhicks> jdstrand: +1 from me
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, micahg, jjohansen: ^
 * micahg wonders if jdstrand wants to cast an official vote :)
<mdeslaur> I'm indifferent to the idea, 0 from me
 * jjohansen is indifferent too
<jdstrand> tyhicks: well, keep in mind, we aren't defining process for using it now. if we need a quick upload, we can always do that straight to the archive still
<jdstrand> +1
<jdstrand> ok, then let's try it
<micahg> +1
<jdstrand> I know sbeattie and mdeslaur don't want it to be ubuntu-security-proposed. I really don't care, but if not ubuntu-security-proposed, what do you want to name it?
<jdstrand> micahg: heh, I thought you voted already :)
<sbeattie> ubuntu-security-testing?
<micahg> ubuntu-security-devel
<tyhicks> seems like dev/devel should be in there somewhere
<sbeattie> mmm, yeah, that's probably better
<micahg> ubuntu-security-devel-testing
<mdeslaur> this will have -updates enabled so we can also put SRU stuff in there?
<jdstrand> mdeslaur expressed a desire to use it for SRUs
<jdstrand> (even though he cast a '0' today :)
<sbeattie> ubuntu-security-devel-testing-this-will-eat-your-filesytem-or-brain
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: watch it or I'll switch to -1 :)
<jdstrand> sbeattie: it better not! :P
<micahg> mdeslaur: makes sense as we have security-proposed for non-updates enabled, also there's the option to copy from security-proposed to this for wider testing as well
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: we have enough votes already :P
<jdstrand> updates should be enabled. these aren't security updates
<mdeslaur> cool
<jdstrand> ubuntu-security-staging?
<tyhicks> I have no problem with that
<mdeslaur> sure
 * sbeattie is also okay with -staging
<jdstrand> ok. cool. let's skip the native vs non-native bit for when its actually seen some usage
<mdeslaur> sure
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> oh
<mdeslaur> I've got a question for tyhicks
<tyhicks> mdeslaur: shoot
<jdstrand> [ACTION] jdstrand to setup ubuntu-security-staging ppa and communicate to team
<meetingology> ACTION: jdstrand to setup ubuntu-security-staging ppa and communicate to team
<mdeslaur> tyhicks: what's the status on #842647? It's unclear to me
<tyhicks> mdeslaur: I tried off and on for several days to reproduce it and no longer can (despite being able to reproduce it in the past)
<tyhicks> mdeslaur: So, I went ahead and wrote up a patch over the weekend
<mdeslaur> tyhicks: could you update the bug please in the next few days so everyone knows what's up with it?
<tyhicks> mdeslaur: Yep, my plan is to do it today. I was up in the air while working on it over the weekend.
<tyhicks> do it == update the bug
<mdeslaur> tyhicks: ok, cool...sorry :)
<tyhicks> I deserve the questioning since I didn't get my activity report in :)
<mdeslaur> ehe
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: sorry, back to you
<jdstrand> I don't have anything else
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, micahg, tyhicks, jjohansen: thanks! :)
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Mar  5 18:52:26 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-05-18.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-05-18.02.html
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
<tyhicks> thanks!
<micahg> thanks jdstrand
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
<cjwatson> kees,soren,stgraber: TB?
 * cjwatson pokes mdz and pitti on -devel
<soren> o/
 * stgraber waves
<cjwatson> that's four; the minutes of the last meeting say kees was to chair, but I guess I can do it seeing as I was supposed to chair last time round
<cjwatson> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Mar  5 21:02:24 2012 UTC.  The chair is cjwatson. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<cjwatson> the agenda does not appear to have been updated following the last meeting; it appears that the ARB agenda item was discussed and eventually passed over to the ARB for further resolution
<cjwatson> but I only skimmed the logs very quickly just before this meeting; can somebody confirm?
<stgraber> correct
<stgraber> and the ARB chose to maintain a single source package for each set of lens+scopes
<stgraber> so no policy change is required
<cjwatson> OK.  I do not see any pending actions; there's the discussion on the list about what to do about brainstorm, and there was a trademark policy item which has been turned into a ticket
<cjwatson> #topic agenda detangling
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: agenda detangling
<cjwatson> AFAICS what the agenda *should* consist of is the Ubuntu Studio LTS item
<cjwatson> to which there've been no followups on the list thus far
<cjwatson> anyone want to dispute or amend that agenda?
<broder> i have a quick backports related questoin that i just sent mail about if you guys don't mind looking quickly
<mdz> cjwatson, no dispute
<soren> ditto
<cjwatson> broder: OK, I've appended that
<cjwatson> wiki is now resembling accurate
<cjwatson> #topic Ubuntu Studio LTS Plan Proposal
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Studio LTS Plan Proposal
<cjwatson> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2012-February/001214.html
<cjwatson> Scott Lavender is usually scott-work, but does not appear to be here
 * stgraber digs for his germinate script, trying to get a unique list of source packages for ubuntu studio
<cjwatson> the proposal is a bit bare, and perhaps we ought to follow up with how to flesh it out better, if we can't track down Scott just at the moment (I pinged him in -devel)
<cjwatson> it doesn't designate key support contacts, nor which upstream packages are of particular interest other than Xfce (per https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecognizedFlavors)
<stgraber> I'm also a bit worried about getting this LTS application so late in the cycle
<soren> That doesn't really worry me, tbh.
<stgraber> http://paste.ubuntu.com/870509/ list of source packages found in ubuntustudio and that aren't part of xubuntu or ubuntu (as they've now moved to XFCE I thought checking against xubuntu+ubuntu made sense)
<cjwatson> personally I'd like to have a clear idea of which developers are active
<Daviey> There was ambiguity around the whole LTS'ing of flavours, so it's hardly surprising that flavours are later to the party.
<cjwatson> scott-work has generally referred to himself as an organiser rather than a developer, IME
<stgraber> soren: my worries are mostly related to the very limited possibility of removing/changing package selections to reduce their ubuntustudio-specific package for an LTS as any of these will need a freeze exception and matching updates to documentation, translations, installer slideshow, ...
<cjwatson> Are there any other specific comments?  It feels to me as though it would be best to have an initial response by mail, and then Scott can beef up the proposal and be prepared for the next meeting
<cjwatson> (Ubuntu Studio doesn't have its own installer slideshow)
<stgraber> soren: though looking at the list I pasted before, it looks fairly short (doesn't pull a full additional language or something) so I don't think they'd actually have much they could do to reduce the list
<mdz> cjwatson, I have nothing to add
<cjwatson> I'm happy to collate comments from here and respond
<cjwatson> they have a lot of AV packages that aren't elsewhere, but that's kind of the point of Ubuntu Studio
<cjwatson> aha
<stgraber> hey scott-work
<scott-work> hello :)
<cjwatson> thanks for showing up at short notice; sorry we weren't organised about the agenda in advancec
<cjwatson> I'll /msg you the discussion so far
<Daviey> stgraber: Hang on, are you suggesting that only the packagesets will be in the pool at 5 years?
<stgraber> scott-work: http://paste.ubuntu.com/870519/ is what we've said so far
<stgraber> oh, apparently cjwatson was faster ;)
<cjwatson> ah, I'll stop then :-)
<cjwatson> no, I was just getting started
<stgraber> Daviey: no, but I expect flavours to support the packages that they are the only one shipping for the length of support they want to provide as LTS
<cjwatson> Daviey: we have no mechanism to trim the pool that way, and no plans to implement such a mechanism :)
<stgraber> Daviey: Edubuntu for example got rid of some java packages to avoid pulling 150 dependencies or so that we'd ultimately be responsible for as we were the only ones using them
<scott-work> sorry, work grabbed my attention, reading pastebin now
<Daviey> stgraber: that seems irrelevant, the same could be said for desktop or server.. Server, at least, will likely touch packages outside the packageset after 18m's
<Daviey> cjwatson: good :)
<cjwatson> Daviey: it's the standard we've held other flavours to
<Daviey> ok
<cjwatson> it isn't a problem if flavours overachieve
<cjwatson> what we want to know is whether they can cope with the minimum requirements
<Daviey> Oh.
 * Daviey relurks.
<stgraber> Daviey: we want a commitment for the packages that are specific to a flavour, if people want to do more than that, they're always welcome to :)
<scott-work> i can address a few of the points already made when it is convenient
<cjwatson> absolutely, please go ahead
<scott-work> as far as active developers, there aren't many really although micagh has been a huge help, both in terms of helping but furthering my education as well
<scott-work> themuso (luke) is active from time to time, but less and less honestly
<scott-work> i am not a proficient or efficient developer, but i am mostly solely responsible for any ubuntu studio specific packages being modified lately
<scott-work> and as such i would presume to be the key contact
 * micahg won't commit to fixing stuff for Ubuntu Studio for the LTS, but is happy to help sponsor stuff for them
<cjwatson> how do you plan to cope with doing security support for the range of packages specific to Ubuntu Studio?
<cjwatson> bearing in mind that less and less tends to come "for free" as the release ages
<scott-work> i would posit that most of the A/V specific packages are actually maintained in debian, however
<scott-work> i don't have hard data to back that up specifically
<scott-work> cjwatson: that isn't in response to your security question
<scott-work> cjwatson: i don't honestly know what is involved in the security support for these packages, so i'm not sure i can formulate an appropriate response currently
<cjwatson> micahg: do you think you could work with scott-work to help him establish what's involved there?  it's a fairly key part of any LTS plan
<micahg> cjwatson: sure
<cjwatson> thanks
<cjwatson> maintenance in Debian is great for the development release, but stable releases often require backporting things to a version that isn't anything that Debian is maintaining
<scott-work> cjwatson: i attempted that last LTS with ardour, i understand :)
<scott-work> "fumbling" with that might be a more apt description, though
<cjwatson> OK; can we follow up by mail, then?  Sorry again that this is a bit haphazard
<scott-work> i should also point out that ubuntu studio does now have it's own slide show installer
<cjwatson> 21:16 <cjwatson> (Ubuntu Studio doesn't have its own installer slideshow)
<cjwatson> :-)
<cjwatson> oh, wait
<cjwatson> "does now" probably not a typo for "does not", which is how I read it ...
<cjwatson> right, I see it now, sorry for the misinformation
<scott-work> hehe :)
<cjwatson> let's move on, then, and we'll get this firmed up by mail and return to it next time
<cjwatson> #topic Opening backports pre-release (redux)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Opening backports pre-release (redux)
<cjwatson> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2012-March/001224.html
<cjwatson> broder: I think this is to some extent a matter of you amending your own summary :-)
<cjwatson> the way I read your original summary is that we have to EITHER (a) have component isolation for builds in the backports pocket OR (b) rebuild binary packages if and when we copy from backports to the development release
<broder> hmm, i see your point :)
<cjwatson> and what I'm hearing is that you intend to do (b) by way of re-uploadin
<cjwatson> g
<cjwatson> (which is the only way to do it anyway - we can't do source-only copies within the same archive, since backports shares a pool with everything else)
<broder> my recollection of the irc discussion was that we agreed on (a) before we decided to re-upload, and didn't re-evaluate (a) after that, but i could be misremembering
<broder> but if you read the history differently, i can run with that
<cjwatson> well I think (a) was simply a consequence of not re-uploading
<broder> ok. in that case i'll withdraw my request for clarification and move forward without turning on component isolation
 * cjwatson waits to see if anyone disagrees with this interpretation
 * stgraber agrees
 * soren too
<cjwatson> OK, carried nem con then
<micahg> I have a question which may be slightly tangential to this in that who is responsible for fixing any issues with the new uploads in the dev release
<cjwatson> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<cjwatson> oh
<cjwatson> micahg: whoever uploaded them? :-)
<broder> micahg: you mean for backports?
<cjwatson> (hm, which indicates it can't be a bulk archive admin task)
<micahg> cjwatson: well, the rebuilds could be sponsored for the last person in the changelog, but that won't always be right
<broder> we could always lie in the changed-by line :)
<broder> "Uploaded to new dev release by Evan Broder on behalf of Micah\n\n -- Micah Gersten <etc>"
<cjwatson> I'm only really particularly bothered about somebody getting any build failure mails and being responsible for fixing those
<cjwatson> and for that, the signer of the package will get them
<cjwatson> if nothing else
<micahg> right
<micahg> the reason I ask is for the rest of backports, the backports team "sponsor" the uploads, and I don't think we want to be responsible for the new toolchain failures :)
<cjwatson> well, it can't be the backport requestor, so I don't see who else is possible
<cjwatson> if it's really due to the new toolchain, then you can hand that off to whoever maintains the relevant bit of the toolchain?
<micahg> cjwatson: for regular backports it's fine, I'm speaking specifically of the pre-release uploads
<broder> what happens if an archive rebuild uncovers a main FTBFS that didn't fail because it was copied forward at the start of the release?
<broder> this seems analogous
<cjwatson> we could just make (fsvo) whoever did the pre-release upload do another one
<micahg> cjwatson: well, I'm speaking more of collateral damage in toolchain updates, not that it's broke per se
<cjwatson> broder: in that case it's the same source package with the same uploader who presumably actually knows something about the package
<broder> cjwatson: right, but there's a commitment from someone (the project? cnaonical? i'm not sure) that all of main builds at release time. who fixes that up if a package breaks due to external changes? the til?
<micahg> broder: well, I'm not sure I agree, normally, a backport has to land in the  devel release and then is getting backported, we're giving people a jump on getting the backport, but that shouldn't necessarily remove the other end of it
<cjwatson> the TIL, the +1 maintenance team, package set owners, whoever happens to come along and get bothered by it ...
<cjwatson> in many cases we simply don't have a single throat to choke right now, so I'm not too concerned that there wouldn't be one in this case, TBH
<micahg> sure, I'd just like it to be clear if there's such an expectation for responsibility
<micahg> not necessarily that we be able to hunt people down
<cjwatson> the +1 maintenance team was an experiment for 12.04; if it continues beyond that, it may well be a suitable ongoing target for at least coordination of this kind of thing, if not first-line responsibility
<broder> my gut is that a package immediately FTBFSing after being re-built from backports is fairly equivalent to a package not immediately FTBFSing because its binaries were copied and then discovering that it FTBFSes later during an archive rebuild test or something
<cjwatson> micahg: my preference, if possible, is that uploading a pre-release backport would constitute a promise to deal with the upload to the development release once it opens as wewll
<cjwatson> *well
<cjwatson> that way the line of responsibility is obvious
<micahg> sounds good to me
<cjwatson> we should have a report to ensure that all the necessary uploads get done, and if somebody is failing to do the ones they promised to do, we'll just have somebody do it for them eventually and eat the slight confusion caused by that
<cjwatson> I expect that in many cases they'll be superseded by Debian syncs anyway
<cjwatson> any other business before we close?
<soren> The meeting or the agenda item?
<stgraber> both I guess (considering the current agenda item is AOB)
 * stgraber doesn't have anything else
<soren> I guess we should talk about the meeting time again.
<soren> DST ends in the US this weekend, doesn't it?
<soren> And in Europe at the end of MArch.
<soren> Or am I a month too early?
 * soren checks
<soren> Nope, that seems accurate.
<cjwatson> if somebody wants to organise another doodle or $better_tool, that would be awesome
<cjwatson> bagsy not it, as we used to say in primary school
<soren> And what did you mean? :)
<cjwatson> "<steps back>"
<soren> Ah :)
<soren> Well, March is special, isn't it?
<soren> For the next meeting, we'll be at an odd offset (Europe <-> US).
<stgraber> yeah, I think next meeting we should just stick to the current UTC time, then change for the next one if needed
<soren> stgraber: Just what I was trying to express as well. Thanks :)
<stgraber> (as the current meeting is in the middle of my afternoon, I don't mind if being an hour earlier or later for DST changes)
<soren> stgraber: Cool.
<stgraber> but we could probably change the meeting time a bit if it makes it better for people in Europe (where our current meeting time is kind of late)
<soren> Then we can do a Doodle for the first meeting after all of EUrope and US has gone DST.
<stgraber> sounds good
<cjwatson> stgraber: doesn't make much difference for me TBH
<cjwatson> don't know about pitti
<cjwatson> soren seems to cope?
<soren> Yeah, this is not too bad.
<soren> I remember planning these things were particularly annoying for the server team as our meetings were adjacent to the kernel team's, so if one team moved, the other had to, too. I guess we have the luxury of not having to worry about that.
<soren> So maybe this will be as simple as sticking with the current local time and just chaning the UTC time?
<soren> I'll send an e-mail to ask. We might not have to do the doodle at all. Yay.
<cjwatson> all right, thanks all
<cjwatson> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Mar  5 22:01:01 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-05-21.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-05-21.02.html
<soren> #action Soren to send an e-mail to the mailing list to confirm that we'll stick to the current time..
<soren> Oh, too late..
<soren> :)
<cjwatson> whoops.  but noted :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-03-06
<Jeet> Hi
<bazhang> hi
<Jeet> i wanted to be in ubuntu members i was exploring and reached here !
<czajkowski> highvoltage: stgraber ikonia
<czajkowski> bah
<czajkowski> highvoltage: stgraber meeting reminder for EMEA later
<roaksoax> o/
<zul> hi
<rbasak> o/
<arosales> roaksoax: Hello
<Daviey> o/
<roaksoax> you guys ready?
<adam_g> o/
<roaksoax> so let's get it started
<Daviey> roaksoax: Go!
<roaksoax> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Mar  6 16:01:39 2012 UTC.  The chair is roaksoax. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<roaksoax> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<roaksoax> there're no previous actions
<roaksoax> according to the wikipage
<roaksoax> so let's move on
<highvoltage> czajkowski: thanks
<roaksoax> [TOPIC] Precise Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Precise Development
<roaksoax> Daviey: you are up
<Daviey> roaksoax: fancy driving it yourself?
<roaksoax> Daviey: sure
<rbasak> I think this topic should be split. There's quite a lot in it.
<roaksoax> so let's go thru the release bugs!
<zul> yaay
<roaksoax> http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html
<Daviey> rbasak: sure, make a proposal at AOB
<roaksoax> bug #924739 -- adam_g any updates?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 924739 in squid3 (Ubuntu Precise) "after upgrade from oneiric to precise, previous squid config unused, cannot be used when relocated" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/924739
<roaksoax> adam_g: has the newer version that got merged from Debian fixed anything?
<adam_g> roaksoax: there is not going to be a fix in debian as far as i can tell, i have some direction on possible solutions
<justinlw> o/
<adam_g> roaksoax: its not going to be seamless in any case, but we can try to make it obvious to users whats happening when we transition their proxy
<Daviey> sounds great!
<Daviey> well, "ok"
<adam_g> i added some notes to the bug about possible routes we can take, anyone interested should weigh in
<roaksoax> adam_g: alright then, I guess once we release backports are gonna be the way to go here until everything is supported
<Daviey> next?
<roaksoax> so let's move on bug #883988
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 883988 in glance (Ubuntu Precise) "db migration failing when upgrading glance - trying to create existing tables" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/883988
<roaksoax> adam_g / zul any of you taking care of it?
<adam_g> roaksoax: for this one upstream has deferred it to their next cycle, best solution IMHO is to carry a patch to disable that autocreation of tables, which is what the other openstack components do already
<roaksoax> adam_g: would you take care of it then?
<Daviey> adam_g: your plan sounds sane... but we'll need a debconf warning i think
<adam_g> roaksoax: yes, ill import the patch that was already proposed to do that and include it in our packaging this week
<roaksoax> adam_g: awesome!
<roaksoax> bug #893926
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 893926 in eucalyptus (Ubuntu) "Contains traces of UEC" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/893926
<Daviey> No progress.
<roaksoax> who's taking care of it/who will, are you Daviey ?
<Daviey> roaksoax: I hoped upstream were going to TBH.
<roaksoax> Daviey: lets not get our hopes up :)
<Daviey> roaksoax: We don't need to panic about it right now
<roaksoax> indeed. let's move on then  bug #923681
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 923681 in debian-installer (Ubuntu) "Server install fails when selecting everything but 'VM host' & 'Manual selection' from tasksel" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/923681
<roaksoax> zul: any updates?
<Daviey> isn't that fixed zul ?
<zul> Daviey: yeah its fixed
<Daviey> zul: update the state? :)
<roaksoax> alright then. Moving on bug #925024
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 925024 in lxc (Ubuntu) "apparmor makes it impossible to install postgresql-common on Precise" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/925024
<zul> done
<roaksoax> serge is not around apparently
<roaksoax> so let's move on
<roaksoax> bug  #850443
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 850443 in python-eventlet (Ubuntu) "Nova API does not listen on IPv6" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/850443
<Daviey> Blocked on upstream progress
<roaksoax> alrigh, bug #928990
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 928990 in cloud-init (Ubuntu) "fsck / dirty filesystem on instance is death" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/928990
<ScottK> Someone really ought to have a look at amavisd-new.
<roaksoax> smoser: ^^?
<smoser> roaksoax, no progress htere.
<roaksoax> alright. bug #929780
<Daviey> ScottK: can you point bugs at the end of this section for 'other pertinent bugs" ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 929780 in nova (Ubuntu) "console.ring files should not be world readable" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/929780
<zul> i need to update that bug as well
<Daviey> didn't we question the validity of that?
<ScottK> OK
<roaksoax> awesome. bug #875262
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 875262 in php5 (Ubuntu Oneiric) "PHP Startup: Unable to load dynamic library '/usr/lib/php5/20090626+lfs/sqlite.so'" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/875262
<roaksoax> koolhead17 is not around, so I guess we will need to catch up with him
<Daviey> SpamapS is assisting
<roaksoax> alright, bug #880339
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 880339 in mysql-5.1 (Ubuntu Precise) "AppArmor profile needs update" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/880339
<roaksoax> I have tried to reproduce this bug again for the fourth time with no luck. waiting for a response for the person who filled it. Otherwise, will mark it as invalid
<roaksoax> bug #907197
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 907197 in nova (Ubuntu) "ip address can't be injected into the instance when using lxc " [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/907197
<Daviey> super
<roaksoax> zul / adam_g ^^
<zul> still pending
<Daviey> zul: can we have news on it by EoW?
<zul> Daviey: sure
<roaksoax> ok then! bug #918791
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 918791 in qemu-kvm (Ubuntu Precise) "qemu-kvm dies when using vmvga driver and unity in the guest" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/918791
<roaksoax> hallyn not here
<justinlw> talked w/serge about this
<roaksoax> justinlw: any updates you'd care to share with us?
<justinlw> there is a patch ... of sorts... I don't think it's a fix, per se, but
<justinlw> I'm going to try it out.
<Daviey> sounds like it is progressing
<roaksoax> indeed. Let;'s move on then. bug #924375
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 924375 in cloud-init (Ubuntu) "cloud-init should allow pre-seeding of ec2 datasource:Ec2:metadata_urls" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/924375
<roaksoax> smoser: ?
<smoser> i'll take that off the tracking list.
<smoser> or change it.
<Daviey> smoser: not required now?
<smoser> bug 942061 is more rlevant here.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 942061 in cloud-init (Ubuntu) "need support for maas" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/942061
<roaksoax> Alright, we need to add it as a release bug. thank you! bug #925024
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 925024 in lxc (Ubuntu) "apparmor makes it impossible to install postgresql-common on Precise" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/925024
<roaksoax> err is duplicated in the list
<roaksoax> bug #928378
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 928378 in glance (Ubuntu) "glance client should be separate from server" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/928378
<roaksoax> zul / adam_g ?
<zul> pending
<roaksoax> and I guess bug #901881 is related too
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 901881 in glance (Ubuntu) "nova and glance should depend on python-keystone" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/901881
<roaksoax> bug #887186
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 887186 in orchestra (Ubuntu) "squid proxy big and small buckets not functioning correctly" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/887186
<roaksoax> Not a worry just yet for orchestra, as we are changing just squid to squid-deb-proxy for MaaS
<roaksoax> I'll update accordingly
<Daviey> roaksoax: dropping tracking of it
<roaksoax> but this should also not longer be an issue withsquid in precise anymore
<Daviey> cool
<roaksoax> bug #928501
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 928501 in ebox (Ubuntu) "Precise will ship totally broken ebox packages" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/928501
<roaksoax> SpamapS: any updates?
<Daviey> jamespage: Were you looking at that aswell?
<jamespage> Daviey: no but I can help out if need be
<Daviey> jamespage: ah, confusing it with another.
<SpamapS> Yes I will discuss it later in the meeting
<jamespage> I dealt with resara server
<Daviey> ah yes
<roaksoax> awesome then. Last bug is duplicated so won't touch it
<Daviey> super
<SpamapS> blueprints?
<roaksoax> ScottK: what's the bug number for the issue you want us to keep track of?
<ScottK> Bug 930916
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 930916 in amavisd-new (Ubuntu) "amavis start-stop script fails to stop amavisd" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/930916
<ScottK> In general though I think the package needs checking over.
<Daviey> nice catch SpamapS
<ScottK> I don't think the postfix-amavis stuff is working, but have no time to look into it.
<roaksoax> does anyone care to work on it?
<roaksoax> this seems that it
<Daviey> I wonder if Ivoks has capacity, he has history in that stack
<roaksoax> it seems that a fix has been release in Debian, but yet, we would still need the package review
<Daviey> Any other issues that should be tracked?
<robbiew> chef and ohai are broken...we might need to punt them :/
<Daviey> :(
<SpamapS> Unless somebody wants to step up and fix them .. like.. now
<Daviey> roaksoax: Want to go over blueprints?
<roaksoax> Daviey: sure
 * robbiew has sent mail to maintainers..waiting on response...will keep tabs on it
<SpamapS> robbiew: should we tag that one with the release tag?
<Daviey> SpamapS: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-p-juju-charm-testing is that still progressing?
<SpamapS> Daviey: actually yes. Just slowly. :-P
<Daviey> SpamapS: likely to make releae?
<Daviey> (nothing there is release schedule tied, is it?)
<SpamapS> Daviey: there's really nothing left to put in the release of Ubuntu. Its documentation and test writing.
<Daviey> right
<Daviey> super!
<Daviey> adam_g: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-p-openstack-charms ?
<SpamapS> Daviey: I'm more worried about the juju enhancements than the testing stuff.
<SpamapS> But that does seem to be trickling into juju trunk.
<adam_g> Daviey: i'd like to get to the swift charms rewrite this cycel for sure, but thinking the others may need to wait (and are not tied to release schedule anyway)
<Daviey> SpamapS: right!
<Daviey> SpamapS: I know robbiew is aware of Subordinate and Constraint seemingly not ready yet.
<Daviey> Do you know the status of that?
<robbiew> SpamapS: no specific bug yet to tag...just anecdotal information...will get that resolved though ;)
<Daviey> adam_g: ssl migration would be nice..
<robbiew> Daviey: ack...I believe it's in review still
<Daviey> cool
<Daviey> zul: do we still neen openvswitch in main?
<Daviey> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-p-openvswitch-mir
<zul> Daviey: yeah there some bits in openstack that use it, but i dont think its a priority
<SpamapS> Do we need to look at supplementing the MIR team? Would they accept one of us to help with their backlog?
<Daviey> roaksoax: Do you want to speak with aquette about deferring some (most?) of https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-p-cloud-power-management ?
<roaksoax> Daviey: will sure do
<Daviey> SpamapS: I've already tried to make progress there.
<Daviey> I think https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-p-kronos is going to be frozen at current state
<Daviey> SpamapS: CEPH status?
<SpamapS> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mir/+subscribedbugs .. looks like about 30+ pending review
<SpamapS> Daviey: waiting on MIR
<Daviey> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-p-ceph
<Daviey> Any other blueprint questions?
<SpamapS> servercloud-p-cloudutils
<Daviey> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-p-cloudutils
<SpamapS> Medium.. a few TODO's left.. seems a candidate for postponing
<Daviey> Hmm
<Daviey> I'm not sure it's tied to release that?
<SpamapS> ubuntu-cloudimg-query ships in Ubuntu
<Daviey> It's mostly implementing API infra, server side?
<Daviey> SpamapS: right, but that can still work with v1 API
<Daviey> utlemming / smoser ?
<Daviey> SpamapS: What is the status of PHP?
<smoser> at the moment it would appear that ubuntu-cloudimg-query will ship without query2 support.
<smoser> which is not ideal, but it is functional.
<SpamapS> Daviey: ugh
<Daviey> works for me.
<smoser> the /query interface isnt going away.
<SpamapS> Daviey: so, basically *everybody* wants us to ship PHP 5.4.0
<SpamapS> Daviey: but we have been firm at sticking with Suhosin .. which is not available yet for 5.4.0
<Daviey> SpamapS: I found on the internets that you were investigating it again
<SpamapS> Daviey: Debian dropped Suhosin, but our security team would prefer that we don't.
<Daviey> SpamapS: Is it significant work to port it?
<SpamapS> Daviey: so, I'm emailing the Suhosin maintainers asking them for a status update. It was promised 2 months ago.
<Daviey> SpamapS: Have a bug as to where/why Debian dropped it?
<SpamapS> Daviey: I can dig it out. Its in the changelog of 5.3.10
<Daviey> ah, ok, thanks
 * Daviey passes the steering wheel back to the chair.
<roaksoax> alright then. Should we move on then?
<roaksoax> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Server Team Events
<SpamapS> negronjl is hosting a charm school next Monday, and it looks like I'll be joining him
<SpamapS> http://charmschoolsv.eventbrite.com/
<roaksoax> awesome!
<SpamapS> At the Santa Clara Hilton
<SpamapS> spread the word to all your silicon valley friends. :)
<arosales> SpamapS: you and jcastro are also hosting a webinar on Thursday (March 8th), correct?
<SpamapS> YES
<roaksoax> right on!
<SpamapS> http://cloud.ubuntu.com/2012/02/juju-charm-school-webinar-march-8th/
<SpamapS> http://www.brighttalk.com/webcast/6793/41933
<roaksoax> awesome then. So I guess no more upcoming events. Let's move on
<roaksoax> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<roaksoax> hggdh: you are up
<hggdh> hi
<hggdh> nothing here for the week
<hggdh> ..
<hggdh> oh
<roaksoax> hggdh: you remembered something you'd like to share?
<hggdh> I got an email from Sean asking about the UEC machines; I answered & copied Daviey
<hggdh> ..
<roaksoax> alright
 * hggdh just wanted to make sure this is known
 * Daviey hasn't read this?
<hggdh> you were copied in my reply... routed to /dev/null? ;-)
<Daviey> ah, i see it
<roaksoax> alright then. Let's move on
<roaksoax> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<Daviey> nah, in my Boring folder :)
<roaksoax> smb: ^^
<smb> There is bug 944923 which I could use utlemming's help in trying to gather ec2 info. At least this seemed to be there even with a natty kernel (just without lockup warnings) and I cannot see it in any of my local setups. Then since the upgrade from oneiric to precise on my orchestra box seemed to have gone not that well, I wanted to do some clean install upgrades in Xen VMs, which brought up another issue. It seems pxeboot does not work with
<smb> the e1000 emulation. Still digging there but it seems the ipxe rom we have has no pci id info.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 944923 in linux (Ubuntu) "[EC2:cg1.4xlarge] CPU#0 stuck for 23s! [migration/0:6] __do_softirq+0x60/0x210" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/944923
<smb> ..
<roaksoax> utlemming: ^^
<utlemming> smb: sure...lets sync up after
<smb> utlemming, ack
<roaksoax> alright, unless there's something else you'd like to brin up smb, then we can move on
<smb> nope
<roaksoax> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<roaksoax> rbasak: you are next
<rbasak> openmpi1.5 packages are now in the archive, alongside openmpi (1.4). Testing from stakeholders would be appreciated, especially as the test suite is not open source.
<rbasak> Nothing else to report.
<smoser> wait, there was one other thing smb said
<smoser> for hallyn
<smoser> e1000 emulation and pxe boot
<smoser> smb, please open a bug on that.
<smb> smoser, sure
<smb> smoser, Right now debugging the build
<Daviey> rbasak: so, you have versioned rdepends aswell?
<roaksoax> awesome, let's move on
<rbasak> Daviey: no, we made the decision not to do that
<roaksoax> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Open Discussion
<rbasak> Daviey: so all rdepends remain linked against openmpi
<rbasak> I think going over http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html should be split into a separate topic. It tends to take the bulk of the meeting so it would make sense to have it separated so that other things associated with the release timetable (FFes etc) can be covered without forgetting anything.
<roaksoax> does someone agree/disagree? Daviey ^^?
<arosales> seems it should at least be a subtopic under precise/current development
<arosales> along with that it would be nice to have a sub-topic for essential or near milestone blueprints
<roaksoax> I'd say so too
<SpamapS> roaksoax: you skipped my section
<SpamapS> Zentyal Packages (http://pad.lv/928501) - SpamapS
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 928501 in ebox (Ubuntu) "Precise will ship totally broken ebox packages" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<roaksoax> [action] add subtopics for release-bugs/BP;s under precise/current development
<meetingology> ACTION: add subtopics for release-bugs/BP;s under precise/current development
<roaksoax> SpamapS: sorry about that, was going over the pastable commands
<roaksoax> [topic] Zentyal Packages (http://pad.lv/928501) - SpamapS
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Zentyal Packages (http://pad.lv/928501) - SpamapS
<SpamapS> So anyway, this item has been at the top of the sponsorship queue for a few weeks now
<SpamapS> We need to break it up
<SpamapS> We should all have patch pilot days coming up..
<Daviey> SpamapS: they still need multiple src packages?
<SpamapS> Daviey: aye
<SpamapS> We need to review them, one by one, until they're done.
<Daviey> *awesome*
<Daviey> SpamapS: How many are there?
<SpamapS> if they miss NEW for precise, so be it, but Zentyal has been good to us, and we need to do what we can to help get their stuff into Ubuntu
<SpamapS> Daviey: 13 I think
<SpamapS> https://launchpad.net/~jacalvo/+archive/zentyal-precise/
<Daviey> SpamapS: perfect, fancy assigning one to each member of the team?
<SpamapS> 16
<SpamapS> Daviey: I'd like to allow people to assign them to themselves..
<SpamapS> Daviey: since some may feel more comfortable with ntp, openvpn, or squid, than others
<jamespage> SpamapS, I'll pickup a few
<Daviey> SpamapS: lets just progress it, it's easier to have someone co-ordinate it
<SpamapS> So yeah, please focus your sponsorship efforts on that bug, and make it clear what you are going to review, so others don't duplicate the work.
<Daviey> SpamapS: Really, anyone should be able to turn their hand to any of the technologies it uses.
<Daviey> If they can't, we have problems. :)
<SpamapS> indeed
<SpamapS> We'll check back in on the progress next week.
<SpamapS> that is all, thanks!
<roaksoax> awesome then!
<roaksoax> [topic] Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<roaksoax> SO daylight saving starts Sunday
 * justinlw will be on PDT instead of MDT
<SpamapS> in the US
<Daviey> So, we are keeping the same UTC time?
<roaksoax> for US timezones. Which means that meeting for us will be one more hour
<Daviey> SpamapS: that makes life easier for you?
<SpamapS> keep it
<SpamapS> do not move it
<SpamapS> I will actually be able to attend the first 15 min
<Daviey> So.. keep the same UTC time.
<roaksoax> ok so we can keep the same UTC time
<Daviey> So nothing changes for admin.
<roaksoax> agreed then. SpamapS So you won't be chairing next week either?
<Daviey> SpamapS is chairing for the next 6 months.
<SpamapS> precisely
<Ursinha> lol
<SpamapS> ;-/
<roaksoax> lol
<roaksoax> then i ugess Daviey will be chairing if SpamapS can't make it
<Ursinha> if no one volunteers I can do that
<SpamapS> I can make it
<roaksoax> awesome then!
<roaksoax> thanks all for attending
<roaksoax> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Mar  6 16:57:17 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-06-16.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-06-16.01.html
<Daviey> thanks roaksoax !
<arosales> roaksoax: thanks for charing :-)
<roaksoax> arosales: :)
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Mar  6 17:00:03 2012 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Precise
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<apw> o/
<sforshee> o/
<ogasawara> o/
<arges> o/
<cking> o/
<ppisati> o/
<tgardner> o/
<herton> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> nothing new to report this week
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/canonical-kernel-distro-team-ubuntu-12.04-beta-2.html
<ogasawara> || apw        || hardware-p-kernel-boot                || 4 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||            || hardware-p-kernel-config-review       || 6 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||            || hardware-p-kernel-delta-review        || 3 work items ||
<ogasawara> If your name is in the above table, please review your Beta-2 work
<ogasawara> items.
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Blueprint: hardware-p-kernel-power-management (cking)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Blueprint: hardware-p-kernel-power-management (cking)
<cking> nothing new to report this week
<cking> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Precise Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Precise Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> We uploaded the 3.2.0-18.28 kernel last Friday.  The most notable
<ogasawara> changes are a rebase to v3.2.9, updated AppArmor patches, clickpad
<ogasawara> detection support, and re-enablement of AUFS.  We also uploaded the
<ogasawara> first instance of linux-backports-modules-3.2.0 which contains an
<ogasawara> updated v3.3 compat-wireless stack.
<ogasawara> Note that Beta-2 is approaching.  We will be preparing our final Beta-2
<ogasawara> kernel by the end of next week.  Please submit any patches which need to
<ogasawara> land for this milestone.
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Mar 22 - Beta-2 Freeze (~2 weeks)
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Mar 29 - Beta-2 (~3 weeks)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (apw)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's (apw)
<apw> Currently we have 75 CVEs on our radar, one new CVE was added this week.
<apw> See the CVE matrix for the current list:
<apw>  
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<apw>  
<apw> Overall the backlog is broadly unchanged this week:
<apw>  
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/status/cve-metrics.txt
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<apw>  
<apw> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Oneiric/Natty/Maverick/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Oneiric/Natty/Maverick/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton)
<bjf> Here is the status for the main kernels, until today (Mar. 06):
<bjf>  
<bjf>  * Hardy - 2.6.24-31.100    - A single CVE.
<bjf>  * Lucid - 2.6.32-40.87     - CVEs, eCryptfs, NFSv4, block, and other misc. fixes.
<bjf>  * Maverick - 2.6.35-32.67  - A single CVE.
<bjf>  * Natty - 2.6.38-13.57     - CVEs, eCryptfs and some other fixes.
<bjf>  * Oneiric - 3.0.0-16.29    - CVEs and 3 stable upstream releases.
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf>  
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf> Future stable cadence cycles:
<bjf>  * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseInterlock
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Mar  6 17:04:05 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-06-17.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-06-17.00.html
<cking> thanks jsalisbury
<apw> heh cheers
<heartsmagic> good evening
<czajkowski> heartsmagic: hiya
<czajkowski> stgraber: highvoltage pingaged 1 min warning
<jo-erlend> hello.
<trijntje> hi all
<FOAD> Hi trijntje.
<drubin> czajkowski: here
<czajkowski> ogra_: drubin stgraber highvoltage
<czajkowski> welcome
 * ogra_ doesnt see any of the others yet
<czajkowski> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA
 * stgraber waves
<jo-erlend> I haven't been to these meetings before. I was supposed to be here for the last meeting, but then I got a cold and forgot the whole meeting in my self pity.
<czajkowski> right shall we get started folks
<czajkowski> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Mar  6 20:04:15 2012 UTC.  The chair is czajkowski. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<czajkowski> welcome to the EMEA today
<czajkowski> thanks for coming and well work our way through the list as they are on the wiki page
<czajkowski> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA
<czajkowski> first up is jo-erlend as redmar isn';t here
 * trijntje is redmar
<czajkowski> trijntje: ahh ok
<czajkowski> trijntje: start again so
<czajkowski> #topic trijntje Membership
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: trijntje Membership
<czajkowski> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/redmar
<czajkowski> trijntje: thanks for coming along
<highvoltage> hi!
<czajkowski> trijntje: so care to tell us about yourself ?
<trijntje> sure. I'm a student from the Netherlands, I've been using ubuntu since Gutsy and my main involvement with ubuntu is with the Dutch Translation Team and helping people via IRC
<czajkowski> trijntje: so how do you feel the Ubuntu community has grown in that time ?
<highvoltage> trijntje: are you involved with any LoCo activities? Have you ever participated in any local translation events before?
<trijntje> I'm not sure about the wider community, since the first few years I only followed the loco team
<trijntje> when I first started translating the dutch team had just been revived by cumulus007 after being dead for a couple of years, so there has been a lot of improvement there
<trijntje> I have participated in a number of online 'translation sprints', but I've not been to any local events in person
<highvoltage> trijntje: if you could change any one thing in the translation community, what would that be?
<highvoltage> (or even Ubuntu, if you like)
<trijntje> We do get quite a number of people who want to join the team, but never really follow through to become a full member. It would be nice if that changed, but I'm not sure how
<trijntje> We've tried a number of things like appointing a mentor for new translators, but that didn't really help
<FireBeard> trijntje: spammed this channel, so I thought I'd join
<trijntje> probably it's just the fact that translating is hard work, and there is alway's more of it ;)
<highvoltage> thanks trijntje
<czajkowski> nods
<ogra_> FireBeard, feel free to tell us about trijntje if you have anything to say or to praise him or so :)
<FireBeard> nah, he just said that you guys were debating him, and asked us to watch
<FireBeard> I'm here for a possible trainwreck ;)
<trijntje> haha
<jo-erlend> :)
<ogra_> heh, great
<czajkowski> ok are we ready to vote folks
 * ogra_ is ready to vote 
<czajkowski> nice testimonals btw
<ogra_> ++
<FireBeard> I don't know trijntje all that well, he did help me once or twice, when I had a question tho
<trijntje> thanks, though I did not write them ;)
<czajkowski> #voters ogra_ iulian highvoltage drubin czajkowski
<meetingology> Current voters: czajkowski drubin highvoltage iulian ogra_
<ogra_> +1
<iulian> Wait a bit, please.
<drubin> +1
<iulian> Bleh.
<czajkowski> #vote please vote on trijntje membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: please vote on trijntje membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
 * iulian was wirint something.
<highvoltage> iulian: ok
<drubin> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from drubin
<czajkowski> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from czajkowski
<iulian> +1 from me anyway.
<meetingology> +1 from me anyway. received from iulian
<highvoltage> +1 [ good translation effort, good testimonial from peers ]
<meetingology> +1 [ good translation effort, good testimonial from peers ] received from highvoltage
<czajkowski> ogra_: you can vote now you voted before I called the vote :)_
<ogra_> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from ogra_
<stgraber> +1
<czajkowski> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: please vote on trijntje membership
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<czajkowski> 6 really
<czajkowski> :)
<czajkowski> stgraber: welcome :)
<ogra_> :)
<czajkowski> trijntje: welcome aboard
<Oer> o/ redmar
<ogra_> welcome aboard trijntje
<trijntje> \0/
<stgraber> czajkowski: 20:02  * stgraber waves
<trijntje> thanks a lot!
<stgraber> czajkowski: :)
<czajkowski> #topic jo-erlend membership
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: jo-erlend membership
<jo-erlend> trijntje, congrats \o/  :)
<FireBeard> congratulations trijntje
<czajkowski> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JoErlendSchinstad
<highvoltage> I'm ready to vote
 * ogra_ too, but i have one question though
<FireBeard> you already voted, didn't you?
<czajkowski> jo-erlend: thanks for coming
<ogra_> "it's better to drown your sorrows than teach them how to swim"
<jo-erlend> thanks for having me. :)
<ogra_> jo-erlend, in what do you drown them usually ?
<ogra_> met ?
 * ogra_ thinks thats one of these candidates where we all think "huh, he isnt a member yet" ?
<FireBeard> glad to witnessed this, bye
<highvoltage> ogra_: indeed.
<jo-erlend> ogra_, hehe, that depends on the situation. :)
 * stgraber is ready to vote
<iulian> jo-erlend: What situation? :)
 * iulian too.
<czajkowski> jo-erlend: so recently you've been rather vocal on the unity mailing list, do you think being a member will make you step back a bit before you reply sometimes and possibly think more about the CoC and the fact you're an Ubutnu member?
<highvoltage> Personally I think it's better for someone to step over the line a bit now and again than be afraid to speak up and participate.
<jo-erlend> czajkowski, I try to consider the CoC in any case. I don't always succeed, but I do take it seriously, or I wouldn't have signed it.
<czajkowski> hmm ok
<iulian> Fair enough.
<czajkowski> jo-erlend: how do you see your role in the community growning ?
<jo-erlend> if you look at the large number of debates I've participated in, I think you'll find that I hardly ever loose my cool. And when I do, I have no fear of apologizing for it afterwards.
<highvoltage> It's also really easy for someone to read something into an email that isn't even there.
<jo-erlend> czajkowski, my involvement with askubuntu won't be reduced. I've recently taken over as a contact for the Norwegian loco, and I'm just beginning to connect to different news media
<czajkowski> ok
<czajkowski> anyother questions or comments folks?
<drubin> nope
<highvoltage> I've seen calm conversations on lists between people I know and then I have someone else who reads it who comes to my desk and say "omg did you see that flameware on ubuntu-devel!?"... and then I explain to them that it's not that at all, and it's easier to tell when you know the people somewhat.
<jo-erlend> I'm getting more serious about my work with support, documentation and ... PR. But I'm also working more on code now.
<czajkowski> #voters ogra_ iulian drubin highvoltage stgraber czajkowski
<meetingology> Current voters: czajkowski drubin highvoltage iulian ogra_ stgraber
<ogra_> +1
<highvoltage> +1
<iulian> +1
<czajkowski> wait!!!!
<czajkowski> #vote please vote on jo-erlend application
<meetingology> Please vote on: please vote on jo-erlend application
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<stgraber> hehe, that's just #voters, it's not #vote yet ;)
<stgraber> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
<czajkowski> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from czajkowski
<highvoltage> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from highvoltage
<iulian> Oh, blimey.
<iulian> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from iulian
<ogra_> +1 [no comment ...]
<meetingology> +1 [no comment ...] received from ogra_
<drubin> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from drubin
<czajkowski> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: please vote on jo-erlend application
<meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<czajkowski> huzzah
<czajkowski> welcome aboard
<ogra_> finally ... welcome jo-erlend
<jo-erlend> thanks! \o/
<iulian> Congrats, jo-erlend.
<highvoltage> jo-erlend: congratulations and welcome
<Oer> o/ jo-erlend
<trijntje> congrats jo-erlend, your wiki page made me jalous ;)
<heartsmagic> congrats jo-erlend
<iulian> czajkowski: Next one please.
<heartsmagic> andl also trijntje
<czajkowski> #topic heartsmagic membership application
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: heartsmagic membership application
<czajkowski> iulian: patience
<czajkowski> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/heartsmagic
<czajkowski> heartsmagic: welcome and thanks for coming to the meeting
<heartsmagic> thank you
<iulian> Welcome heartsmagic.
<czajkowski> heartsmagic: so care to tell us about you and your role in the ubuntu community ?
<heartsmagic> my name is serkan and Ä± am 32 years old. I have been managing Ubuntu Turkey Loco team as I stated for many years with my friends. I think this is the biggest role for me in the Ubuntu community
<heartsmagic> we have some subgroups, I am trying to keep them alive
<ogra_> hmm, if you are leading the LoCO there was nobody wanting to write a testimonial for you ?
<highvoltage> heartsmagic: does the loco team have a website or list of accomplishments?
<highvoltage> heartsmagic: is it an official loco?
<czajkowski> #link http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-tr/events/history
<heartsmagic> ogra_, honostly I dint tell them
<ogra_> ooh, you should have done ... testimonials weight a lot in our decision process
<heartsmagic> highvoltage, we don't keep a list like that, and we are not an *official* loco team right now
<iulian> heartsmagic: It's an important step for you. I think that you should've.
<heartsmagic> sure, but there is not any testimonials right now, sorry
<czajkowski> heartsmagic: we do look at how people interact with the community not just their loco
<czajkowski> is there someone else who could vouch for you?
<ogra_> (how about bytan who leads the loco with you)
<heartsmagic> vouch for me?
<heartsmagic> then who vouch for bytan :)
<ogra_> write a testimonial ...
<highvoltage> heartsmagic: loco work is definitely hard work. it's great that you've been keeping up with it over the years
<ogra_> or come to the meeting and praise you etc
<heartsmagic> czajkowski, I am interacting with community through our Loco
<highvoltage> heartsmagic: it's useful for us if we could hear back from other people who have worked with you. they can leave a message under testimonials and also cheer for you in the RMB meetings
<czajkowski> heartsmagic: I think it would be better if you could come back at another meeting with some testimonals on your page as it's rather hard now to judge
<czajkowski> rather than giving you a -1 its what I would recommend tbh
<czajkowski> ogra_: highvoltage stgraber iulian drubin thoughts?
<drubin> I am for czajkowski's suggestion
 * ogra_ agrees
<highvoltage> yep
<stgraber> yep
<iulian> heartsmagic: Also, it would be nice if you could improve your wiki page.
<czajkowski> heartsmagic: I dont like turning people donw and discouraging people
<drubin> I think you heartsmagic is on the right path but hard to judge been reading every thing
<heartsmagic> again pr :)
<czajkowski> but if yo coudl update the wiki page and get testimonals it really would be better to come back then :)
<czajkowski> please
 * iulian nods.
<heartsmagic> no I wont i think :)
<iulian> heartsmagic: Why's that?
<heartsmagic> I mean if telling how I participate is not enogh for you, I wont insist on being a member
<drubin> If you don't want to come back to re-apply why would you want to apply in the first place
<heartsmagic> testimonials is good but musnt be a mandatory
<ogra_> heartsmagic, we are supposed to judge by your interaction with others over the time you worked with the community, if nobody tells us about how you helped them, how should we judge ?
<iulian> heartsmagic: No, that's the whole point. You should try again. I have to disagree with you on that, testimonials play a very important role.
<drubin> heartsmagic: Yes but all your work has been working with people not writing code or answering forums or translations so there is no way for us to double check on things
<highvoltage> heartsmagic: you don't have to insist. we think you're membership material but we'd like some feedback from the people you have worked with. unfortunately the ubuntu project is too big for us to know everyone personally, so we can't instictively know what you have done in the past.
<highvoltage> and that's standard procedure for every singly person who has applied for membership before.
<heartsmagic>  I got it, but you asked why
<ogra_> heartsmagic, testimonials are  not mandatory, but your wikipage doesnt really list much we can checkm the wikipage of your locoteam neither etc
<highvoltage> heartsmagic: ok, it's up to you though. thanks for joining the meeting today.
<ogra_> testimonials would weight out the lacking bits for sure
<heartsmagic> ok your call again
<ogra_> no, yours
<ogra_> give us more info
<heartsmagic> more info?
<ogra_> and show up in the next meeting
<czajkowski> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Mar  6 20:41:52 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-06-20.04.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-06-20.04.html
<czajkowski> thanks folks for coming
<highvoltage> yep thanks everyone!
<czajkowski> and to EMEA members for taking part
<czajkowski> :D
<trijntje> thanks for your time
<iulian> Thanks czajkowski for chairing.
<ogra_> thanks czajkowski for chairing (again)
<jo-erlend> thanks for your time and for your votes :)
<iulian> You were great as always. :)
<iulian> Now, dinner time.
<ogra_> enjoy
<drubin> thanks czajkowski
<iulian> Ta.
 * highvoltage might take another nap
<heartsmagic> good evening
<trijntje> have a nice evening all!
<MichaelTel_> Good evening to all
<czajkowski> ogra_: for you anytime :) (in 2013)
<ogra_> *g*
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-03-07
<ashickur-noor> o/
 * slangasek waves
 * ogra_ moos
<jodh> o/
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Mar  7 16:02:34 2012 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
 * stgraber waves
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Thunder and lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Thunder and lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek ogra infinity cjwatson)
<slangasek> jodh ogra slangasek stgraber cjwatson doko barry ev bdmurray infinity
<slangasek> $
<jodh> * This week:
<jodh>   * [dpkg] bug 927993: Started to investigate, but mvo identified the
<jodh>     problem+fix.
<jodh>     almost immediately. Thanks mvo!
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 927993 in apt (Ubuntu Precise) "ordering code may mark a package for configure before its unpacked" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/927993
<jodh>   * [boot/upstart] bug 940290: Isolated issue, finished code, and updated
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 940290 in upstart "console log consumes fds upon job restart/respawn" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/940290
<jodh>     tests. Pending code review.
<jodh>   * [boot/upstart] bug 936667: Created a basic fix. Pending review. We'll
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 936667 in upstart (Ubuntu) "Upstart early job logging causes boot failure for systems with no initramfs (error is "No available ptys")" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/936667
<jodh>     need to consider this scenario carefully should we introduce an
<jodh>     initramfs-less boot experience for some for 12.10 though.
<jodh>   * [upgrade/do-release-upgrade] bug 883618: Fixed. Problem cause was
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 883618 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Console upgrade useless.. XSet warnings all over the screen" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/883618
<jodh>     identified using a generic dpkg-divert(8) script I wrote:
<jodh>     http://is.gd/H6iPus
<jodh>   * [packaging/eglibc] bug 508083: Fix identified - currently reworking
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 508083 in eglibc (Ubuntu) "cron crashed with SIGSEGV in __pthread_initialize_minimal_internal()" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/508083
<jodh>     maintainer scripts.
<jodh> * TODO:
<jodh>   * [packaging/eglibc] bug 508083: Complete work and test very carefully.
<jodh>   * [boot/upstart] Early job logging code review and upstream merge.
<jodh> â
<mvo> jodh: almost immediately is a bit of a overstatement, but I'm really happy that its found and fixed
<jodh>  
<jodh>  
<ogra_> intramfs-less boot experience \o/
<ogra_> done:
<ogra_> * more weeding out of the rotting ubuntu-arm bugs
<ogra_> * fixed a bug in fixrtc that made it set the clock in any case in any direction
<ogra_> * merged a bunch of alsa fixes from tobin
<ogra_> * merged a bunch of flash-kernel bugfixes
<ogra_> * fixed sound on ac100 netbooks, finally works by default now
<ogra_> * didnt get much done wrt oem-config this week, will prioritize for next week
<ogra_> todo:
<ogra_> * oem-config !
<ogra_> * stopwatch initrdless boot
<ogra_> * start looking at delay caused by fsck on boot
<ogra_> * more ubuntu-arm rotten bug cleanup
<slangasek> jodh: mvo is also asking for help getting a test case out of bug #930396 that he can reproduce; can you put this to the top of your list?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 930396 in Zim "No menu on upper desktop panel. Ubuntu 11.10." [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/930396
<jodh> slangasek: will do.
<slangasek> ta
<jodh> slangasek: is that bug number correct?
<slangasek> apparently not ;)
<slangasek> bug #940396
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 940396 in apt (Ubuntu Precise) "lucid -> precise main all failed to upgrade: dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of kde-runtime" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/940396
<slangasek> jodh: that one is :)
<jodh> slangasek: thanks. I've assigned myself.
<slangasek>  * RELEASE MEETING: working on bug #901638; build-time testing confirmed, could use verification from Kubuntu folks that it still actually works
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 901638 in soprano (Ubuntu Precise) "Remove iodbc2 (causes upgrade failure from Oneiric to Precise)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/901638
<slangasek>  * discussions around Wubi
<slangasek>  * looking into fixing upstart's fork-tracking handling
<slangasek>  * gconf merge for full multiarch support; now chasing regressions related to upgrade order & triggers (bug #948294)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 948294 in gconf (Ubuntu) "package gconf2 3.2.3-3ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: ErrorMessage: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 250" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/948294
<slangasek>  * merged a package from Debian over the weekend for the Ubuntu Global Jam to fix an RC bug we still had (revelation)
<slangasek>  * acpi-support uploaded to work around lightdm not writing to utmp (bug #933626)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 933626 in acpi-support (Ubuntu) "acpi-support should use ck-list-sessions to determine active X display and X user" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/933626
<slangasek> Â¢
<slangasek> cjwatson: ^^ is that a suitable tagging for release-meeting stuffs?
 * stgraber quickly looks for anything release-meeting worthy before pasting
<cjwatson> I figured we'd see what people came up with in this meeting and settle for the best :)
<stgraber> Bugs, bugs, bugs...
<stgraber> - Networking
<stgraber>  - Tweaked netcfg to follow the expected workflow for wireless, bug 36426
<stgraber>  - Fixed resolvconf support in casper, bug 946215
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 36426 in netcfg (Ubuntu) "Can't skip configuring wireless network" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/36426
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 946215 in casper (Ubuntu Precise) "12.04 not set nameserver in pxe boot ( resolvconf or dhcp client bug)" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/946215
<stgraber>  - Worked on converting isc-dhcp to upstart and support IPv4/IPv6 by default, bug 944849
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 944849 in isc-dhcp (Ubuntu) "[FFe] converting isc-dhcp from sysvinit to upstart" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/944849
<stgraber>  - Started investigating bug 919068 (bridge_ports all not working at boot time)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 919068 in bridge-utils (Ubuntu) "bridge_ports all doesn't work at boot time" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/919068
<stgraber> - Installer
<stgraber>  - A bunch of ubiquity bugs (bug 942030, bug 944614, bug 942560, bug 926493, bug 830946)
<stgraber>  - Tried to reproduce bug 924511 without success, might have been fixed lately
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 942030 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "'Take a photo' preview pane not showing live preview" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/942030
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 944614 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubiquity crashed with AttributeError in keyboard_variant_timeout(): 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'apply_keyboard'" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/944614
<stgraber>  - Fixed a race condition in casper when using persistent storage (bug 940908)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 942560 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "keyboard layout screen - Keyboard navigation broken" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/942560
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 926493 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "[UIFe] The installer still says your picture will be used on the login screen" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/926493
<stgraber> - Containers
<stgraber>  - Started looking at the new apparmor but it's currently broken, causing bug 947617
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 830946 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "Nothing displayed on embedded terminal." [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/830946
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 924511 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubiquity tells me my computer name already exists on the network - hostname lookup can be slow" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/924511
<stgraber>  - Wrote about how to start a 12.04 system from a VM in a LXC container instead: http://www.stgraber.org/2012/03/04/booting-an-ubuntu-12-04-virtual-machine-in-an-lxc-container/
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 940908 in casper (Ubuntu Precise) "Keyboard layout, oem-config not set on persistent USB image" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/940908
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 947617 in lxc (Ubuntu) "After update, lxc does not start" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/947617
<stgraber> - Other
<stgraber>  - Expecting LTSP 5.3.4 upload soonish (bugfix release) including converting to upstart (to actually start at the right time)
<stgraber>  - Updated LTTng stack, will blog about it soon
<stgraber> - TODO this week
<stgraber>  - Look at James' friendly-recovery branch, merge and ask for a FFe
<stgraber>  - Get LXC working again with apparmor
<stgraber>  - Upload the new isc-dhcp
<stgraber>  - Continue working on bugs
<stgraber> (DONE)
<stgraber> oh, and I'd really appreciate it if an archive admin could process bug 931809
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 931809 in ust (Ubuntu) "Please remove the old LTTng packages from the Ubuntu archive" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/931809
<stgraber> I won't blog about lttng until that's done as having both stacks in the archive would just confuse everyone ;)
<cjwatson> For release meeting:
<cjwatson>  * Sorted out most of the remaining dpkg-maintscript-helper upgrade bugs.
<cjwatson>  * Fixed a couple of biosdevname-related problems (bug 948546, bug 948559).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 948546 in bridge-utils (Ubuntu) "eth* device names hardcoded in debian/bridge-utils.sh" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/948546
<cjwatson>  * Ported grub2 to GCC 4.6, and tried to disable the cursor earlier on boot (bug 861048).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 948559 in vlan (Ubuntu) "eth* NIC names hardcoded" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/948559
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 861048 in The Ubuntu Flicker-Free Boot Project "have really quick '_' on boot before first purple screen" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/861048
<cjwatson> Everything else:
<cjwatson>  * Various syncs and merges from Debian (especially ntfs-3g), and a few build failure fixes.
<cjwatson>  * Dealt with various grub2 build failures and regressions.
<cjwatson>  * Fixed bug 939278 which broke the d-i GTK frontend.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 939278 in kickseed (Ubuntu) "GTK mini-iso can't start X" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/939278
<cjwatson>  * Writing parted tests in an attempt to track down bug 856826.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 856826 in partman-base (Ubuntu Precise) "'guided resize' partioning leaves Mac unbootable" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/856826
<cjwatson>  * Enormous mail catchup.  Still ~200 messages behind in my inbox alone.
<cjwatson> ..
<ev> Week of Thursday, March 1st, 2012
<ev> - At the Strata conference Tuesday through Thursday. 10 hours on a plane
<ev>   Friday.
<ev> - Crafted this (and a long companion email to James, Robert, and Lucio):
<ev>   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ErrorTracker/ServerArchitecture
<ev> - Call with Robert to discuss the status of the crash database and get his
<ev>   feedback on the backend design.
<ev> - Work on implementing the missing bits from /ServerArchitecture.
<ev> - Chat with Colin and Steve about the future of Wubi.
<ev> - Joined the QA sprint for a day at the reqest of Pete and discussed their
<ev>   proposed high level test harness.
<ev> (done)
<bdmurray> bug triage of iso-testing and ubiquity bug reports
<bdmurray> bug triage of foundations-bugs receiving duplicates
<bdmurray> creation of a bug heat chart that compares packages
<bdmurray> the heat chart is http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/foundations-bugs/foundations-bugs-packages-hottest-bugs.html
 * doko is back again
<bdmurray> reported apport bug 944078 regarding missing information
<bdmurray> investigation into aptdaemon bugs 858707 and bug 659438
<bdmurray> investigation into team assigned bug 556293 and other apt proxy issues
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 944078 in apport (Ubuntu) "bugs reported by apport missing essential information" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/944078
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 858707 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu) "<type 'exceptions.SystemError'>: E:I wasn't able to locate a file for the upnp-router-control package. This might mean you need to manually fix this package." [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/858707
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 659438 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu) "Installation/Removal fails because of package which could not be located (failure in apt.Cache.required_download)" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/659438
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 556293 in apt (Ubuntu) "apt/aptitude need to take global proxy settings into account" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/556293
<bdmurray> closed apt-xapian-index bug 631215 (foundations-bugs high heat bug) that seems fixed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 631215 in apt-xapian-index (Ubuntu) "update-apt-xapian-index crashed with DatabaseCorruptError in buildIndex()" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/631215
<bdmurray> closed update-notifier high heat bug 467875 (closed and bug pattern removed)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 467875 in update-notifier (Ubuntu) "apt_check.py crashed with SIGSEGV in pkgCache::FindPkg()" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/467875
<bdmurray> added procfb to the linux apport package hook
<bdmurray> update-manager bug fixes for bug 946539 and bug 940196
<bdmurray> participated in global bug jam and worked on evince bugs
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 946539 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "gnome-session removed during partial upgrade to Precise Beta1" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/946539
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 940196 in update-manager (Ubuntu Precise) "cdromupgrade from Oneiric to Precise no network failed: The package 'unity-2d-places' is marked for removal but it's in the removal blacklist" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/940196
<bdmurray> done
<slangasek> doko: any status to report?
<doko>  - GCC 4.6.3 packages, including gcj and gnat.
<doko>  - GCC 4.7.0~rc1 packages (ubuntu-toolchain-r/test PPA)
<doko>  - icedtea-web update from the 1.2 branch, fixed some issues
<doko>    with the packaging.
<doko>  - openjdk-6 update, revert an ARM optimization which should
<doko>    have landed in a PPA only.
<doko>  - trying to the gcc-4.7 branch imported in LP for Linaro
<doko>  - address eglibc testing from a PPA with gema (follow-up
<doko>    at UDS is likely, not before, no more uploads planned)
<doko>  - get ARM patches for dragonegg (LLVM backend for GCC)
<doko>    working on ARM.
<doko>  - started updates for the final python 2.7.3 and 3.2.3
<doko>    releases, but didn't finish today.
<doko> todo this week: MIRs
<doko> done
<slangasek> thanks
<slangasek> <infinity> some grub bugfixes, and looking into bugs #911436 and #876626, and fiddling with fpc and ghc.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 911436 in p11-kit (Ubuntu) "https crashed with SIGSEGV in lookup_or_create_bucket()" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/911436
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 876626 in upstart (Ubuntu Precise) "Unlocking the second crypto disk (/home) echos password on console" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/876626
<slangasek> and that should be it for the status round
<slangasek> any questions?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<bdmurray> stgraber and I were talking about bug 942539 and removing the version from the icon
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 942539 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Ubiquity desktop icon text looks messy" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/942539
<bdmurray> we weren't sure if there was a design reason for having it
<bdmurray> cjwatson, ev?
<stgraber> the change would probably be done in casper to avoid messing with the translations (doing s/RELEASE// in the adduser script)
<cjwatson> IIRC it was there so that we could refer to it on CD sleeves, and because we couldn't guarantee people would understand the icon
<cjwatson> but couldn't nautilus be fixed to wrap this correctly
<cjwatson> ?
<cjwatson> oh, wait, you said the version, not the whole text, I misunderstood
<bdmurray> right, so having it say just "Install Ubuntu"
<cjwatson> it was "Install Ubuntu" at one point actually, so let me see if I can dig through archives
<cjwatson> IIRC higher-ups told me to change it
<slangasek> in the example it's splitting "12.04" in the middle
<slangasek> which seems to be a nautilus bug
 * stgraber is happy to re-assign to desktop for a nautilus fix :)
<cjwatson> hmm, looks like it was changed in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/154506
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 154506 in One Hundred Paper Cuts "Ubuntu LiveCD "Install" icon confusing" [Low,Fix released]
<cjwatson> but I definitely think the wrapping is a nautilus bug
<cjwatson> or something in that stack
<stgraber> I don't think there's any good reason for that weird wrapping, having nautilus render it as "Install Ubuntu\n12.04 LTS" would be fine
<cjwatson> might even be gtk/pango
<stgraber> so move the bug to desktop and if they can't get it fixed for 12.04, then drop the version number for final?
<jodh> Are we allowed to say "Install Ubuntu Precise"? Seems that it considers the period a sentence end so is wrapping it there.
<bdmurray> jodh: I don't think so and that would likely cause some confusion
<cjwatson> "Ubuntu Precise" isn't a proper way to refer to the final release
<bdmurray> so assign to the desktop team then?
<jodh> I wonder if you could "fool" the wrapping code then by using a UTF-8 'middle-dot' ('Â·' (0x00B7)) rather than a basic ASCII one?
<cjwatson> bdmurray: yeah
<slangasek> and reassign the bug to nautilus, yes
<cjwatson> there might be a way to fix it with pango attributes
<slangasek> splitting on a dot without whitespace after it is obviously wrong
<bdmurray> okay, then bug 947236 - that won't be done this release will it?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 947236 in base-files (Ubuntu Q-series) "Please provide /etc/os-release" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/947236
<cjwatson> but it likely won't be accessible from a desktop file so it will have to be fixed in the desktop stack anyway
<cjwatson> I don't know that I object to doing os-release for P; it's not intrusive
<ogra_> pango has a "nowrap" mode iirc
<jodh> fwiw the middle-dot trick works ;)
<bdmurray> okay, then assign it to the team?
<cjwatson> yeah
<bdmurray> when I was looking at apt proxy bugs I found bug 24061
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 24061 in apt (Ubuntu Precise) "GPG error with apt-get/aptitude/update-manager behind proxy (BADSIG 40976EAF437D05B5)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/24061
<bdmurray> its in progress but not assigned
<cjwatson> I'm not sure why that's in progress; for updated status you probably need to talk with mvo and/or DonKult
<ev> bdmurray: apols for the delay. That was a bug fix for a papercut. I'll try to find it.
<bdmurray> ev: colin found it
<ev> cool
<bdmurray> then slangasek and I were looking at bug 484499 yesterday
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 484499 in grub2 (Ubuntu Lucid) "[MASTER] syntax errors in /etc/default/grub break upgrades" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/484499
<bdmurray> Is there anything actionable there?
<ogra_> have something like visudo ?
<cjwatson> the only thing we could do would be to have a debconf check for validity
<ogra_> but thats rather a task for UDS discussion
<cjwatson> I strongly suspect that people would continue to file bugs anyway after breaking their configuration files
<cjwatson> particularly because there are circumstances in which a debconf prompt won't show up
<cjwatson> (noninteractive upgrades)
<ogra_> it causes a lot of noise though
<cjwatson> it does, but we can't prevent it completely
<ogra_> every bit we can cut from that would help
<cjwatson> I'm not even convinced we can prevent it mostly
<cjwatson> visudo - mm, except that all the forums/blog/etc. advice people are following recommends editing the file directly
<slangasek> my initial suggestion to bdmurray had been to close that as non-actionable
<cjwatson> and people will get equivalently confused if they're prevented
<ogra_> sure, it will have a transition time
<slangasek> he countered that we could at least put a warning comment in the file
 * doko is leaving now for the Python language summit
<ogra_> but people also edit sudo without visudo ... still there is the header in the file
<cjwatson> people observably don't read any commentary in grub configuration files
<cjwatson> I don't think it's truly actionable, but if we close it, it will just get reopened
<cjwatson> or new dups opened
<ogra_> s/sudo/sudoers/
<slangasek> but in general, I don't think we should consider it in scope for us to prevent users from breaking package upgrades by breaking config files
<cjwatson> (also, I don't want to change that file unnecessarily because it leads to conffile merge prompts)
<slangasek> bdmurray: should we leave the bug open then, but exclude it somehow with a tag?
<bdmurray> slangasek: exclude it from the bug heat graph? sure
<cjwatson> I'm not being wilfully obstructive here btw, I've just thought about this in the past and concluded that there isn't really much useful I can do ...
<slangasek> bdmurray: and from any other graphs / reports we're using to track bugs of importance
<bdmurray> aren't a lot of duplicates of it automatically reported?  we could so something there at least
<slangasek> cjwatson: right, users following bad advice they get on the Internet and breaking their /etc/default/grub is a social problem, not a technical one
<bdmurray> s/so/do/
<cjwatson> if there's some way to automatically guide people through fixing it, that would be good
<ogra_> doesnt it need an update-grub run ?
<ogra_> after you edited ?
<cjwatson> yes
<ogra_> so that could have a check
<cjwatson> it does
<cjwatson> it fails
<ogra_> aww, ok
<cjwatson> I'm not prepared to let the package install anyway under those circumstances, though
<cjwatson> that's just asking for trouble later
 * slangasek nods
<cjwatson> (the bad advice is often unintentional, BTW - unicode quotes and the like - but it's bad advice nonetheless)
<bdmurray> that's all I have
<slangasek> cjwatson: realistically, what's the next step with this bug?  If it's just going to sit open until someone gets around to writing "some way to automatically guide people through fixing it", that's the same as doing nothing
<slangasek> well, let's take that off-line I think :)
<ogra_> how about having it automatically included in /var/backups ... ?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<cjwatson> that's the only plausible next step that I can think of, so I guess if you think that bdmurray or I or somebody should be actioned to fix it ...
<ogra_> so you can at least easily roll back
<slangasek> anything else people want to talk about today?
<slangasek> cjwatson: I think it's going to be a lot of work to produce something (either wiki page or program) that gets people out of the mess in a semi-automated fashion, and I don't think that's a priority right now, no
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Mar  7 16:56:51 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-07-16.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-07-16.02.html
<cjwatson> can this kind of thing be done post-release nowadays, out of curiosity?
<slangasek> thanks guys :)
<ogra_> thanks slangasek
<slangasek> cjwatson: what kind of thing?
<cjwatson> bugpatterns combined with a "help me to fix this" wizard
<cjwatson> I believe Windows has an equivalent of that
<cjwatson> even if half the time you press "help me to fix this" and nothing happens, but ;-)
<slangasek> ah, not sure
<slangasek> bdmurray?
<bdmurray> sure bugpatterns can be done post release - I don't know what form the wizard would take though
<balloons> hello everyone.. time for a community qa meetin'
<balloons> #startmeeting ubuntuqa
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Mar  7 17:03:45 2012 UTC.  The chair is balloons. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntuqa Meeting | Current topic:
<brendand> hi
<balloons> so, this meeting is going to be a quick agenda if that's alright with everyone
<balloons> :-)
<phillw> sure
<balloons> the canonical qa folks are sprinting in london this week
<balloons> so, let me grab the agenda. but if you're wanting to add something to the agenda, speak up now
<balloons> [TOPIC] Previous Actions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntuqa Meeting | Current topic:  Previous Actions
<balloons> Just one from me ACTION: balloons to update QA Team wiki heading
<balloons> so, that has been done
<balloons> you'll notice the new heart icon with an activities link :-)
<phillw> looks good :)
<balloons> yes, I had help.. thanks charles
<balloons> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Updates
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntuqa Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Updates
<balloons> moving right along..  I trust everyone saw the precise beta1 iso testing report by jibel
<balloons> beta1 got released, had some confusion about when it was released.. last minute respins on the iso
<balloons> thanks to all who helped test! in addition, I put out a call for manual testing using checkbox
<balloons> many thanks to the checkbox team for helping me get thru the last minute kinks and helping me keep my sanity in getting that out
<balloons> as of yesterday we had 20 folks who had run thru all the tests
<balloons> and several bugs opened.. one of which has already been fixed :-0
<balloons> My plans for beta2 include expanding the test coverage, and migrating to checkbox-qt, as well as getting it on the cd, so a ppa is not needed and it's right there in your face when you install the iso :-)
<balloons> I'd love to hear feedback from anyone that tested about there experience
<balloons> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Flavor Updates
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntuqa Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Flavor Updates
<balloons> Alrighty, let's get to the good stuff
<balloons> phillw, care to give an update for us?
<phillw> G3 ppc - alternate, installs with a hack, G3 desktop more problematical, ubiquity bug raised for the kernel being installed into the wrong directory on Intel-Mac, re-writing of theme not yet complete (affects all lubuntu)
<phillw> they're getting the hang of using the iso-tracker now :)
<balloons> heh.. i'll bet
<phillw> the mini-iso install system seems also to be okay.
<phillw> that's all from me.
<balloons> thanks phillw
<balloons> how about kubuntu?
<ScottK> Kubuntu Beta 1 went fine.
<ScottK> We're uploading KDE 4.8.1 today.
<ScottK> We did manage at the 11th hour to get kubuntu-active images.
<ScottK> So it's all ~good.
<balloons> ScottK, ohh,, cool.. nice to see the kubuntu-active images got rolled out
<ScottK> They are still very rough, but we'll have a nice tech preview by release I think.
<balloons> yes.. very cool
<balloons> alright, that it ScottK ?
<ScottK> Yep
<balloons> kk.. How's about xubuntu?
<balloons> btw, KDE gonna be 5.0 sooner than we think.. crazy to think about ;-)
<balloons> no one from xubuntu about?
<balloons> how about edubuntu?
<balloons> going once, twice.. :-) alrighty, how's about ubuntu studio/
<balloons> Ok, let's move to the other topics
<balloons> [TOPIC] Other topics
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntuqa Meeting | Current topic:  Other topics
<balloons> first of all, thanks phillw for updating the agenda and getting the meetings posted.. I slipped up and didn't get the logs online.. It was a crazy week
<balloons> So, I see your agenda item; phillw Request Chair posts the logs up, else delegates.
<balloons> anything else to add phillw.. I will make sure to delegate in the future in case I am unable to post
<balloons> Alrighty, so the last piece I see is
<balloons> Manual TestCase Review Updates
<balloons> I will say a big thanks again to roginac who had many merge proposals go into the branch, as well as AlanBell and some others whom I may be forgetting.. and of course, all the folks who contributed manual tests during the rewrite, brendand , etc
<balloons> If you review the logs for last week, we had discussions about where the "master" repo of testcases would be.. Not many folks were able to stay and chat for so long, but among those present we agreed upon declaring the checkbox branch as the master list for the short term until we have a replacement, such as case conductor
<balloons> this makes it potentially a bit harder to contribute tests, but tests can be contributed by simply sending an email to the mailing list if your not able to use launchpad to create a merge proposal
<balloons> That's all I have.. Questions/Comments?
<balloons> alright, if no one has anything else, we'll call this a wrap.. Thanks for coming everyone.. Next week we should return to our normal capacity with the other QA team members being back online :-)
<balloons> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Mar  7 17:33:26 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-07-17.03.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-07-17.03.html
<bdmurray> time for the bug squad meeting
<bdmurray> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Mar  7 18:01:36 2012 UTC.  The chair is bdmurray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<bdmurray> #topic Previous Actions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Previous Actions
<bdmurray> an action from last week's meeting was
<bdmurray> ACTION: put list of dbus no reply bugs into a wiki page and email bugsquad regarding list: bdmurray
<bdmurray> I haven't done this yet but will today!
<bdmurray> that's it for the previous actions
<bdmurray> #topic Engineering Team Bug Status
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Engineering Team Bug Status
<bdmurray> This week I made some new charts that compare the hottest bugs about packages that a team is subscribed to with each other
<bdmurray> For example: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/foundations-bugs/foundations-bugs-packages-hottest-bugs.html
<bdmurray> bug heat is used to determine the position of each bug on the chart
<mfisch> bdmurray: if those bugs get any hotter, you'll need vertical bars to separate the packages
<bdmurray> yes, well the goal is to get the hot ones off though
<bdmurray> so hopefully vertical bars won't be needed ;-)
<mfisch> "if you had to scroll this page it's a sign that you should work on that package"
<bdmurray> heh
<bdmurray> otherwise beta 1 testing went well and things are looking pretty good
<bdmurray> Ursinha: do you have anything?
<Ursinha> no sir
<bdmurray> jsalisbury: anything from kernel land?
<jsalisbury> No major kernel issues with beta1 so far.  KernelOops will stay enabled until near the final release.
<bdmurray> #topic Bug Escalations (any High or Critical bugs that community members have seen that need attention)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bug Escalations (any High or Critical bugs that community members have seen that need attention)
<bdmurray> Is there anything not being worked on we should be aware of?
<bdmurray> #topic Any other business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Any other business
<bdmurray> I believe we have one outstanding bug control application that needs review
<bdmurray> if you are a member please take a look at it
<bdmurray> weird I don't actually see it on the public archive of the mailing list
<bdmurray> anything else?
<bdmurray> ah, here it is - https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-bugcontrol/msg03680.html
<bdmurray> okay, then - thanks everyone
<bdmurray> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Mar  7 18:21:38 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-07-18.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-07-18.01.html
<HalD> \O
<gilir> #startmeeting Lubuntu Team Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Mar  7 20:04:47 2012 UTC.  The chair is gilir. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:
<gilir> hi :)
<phillw> hiyas
<HalD> hi
<stenten> hello
<moergaes> Hi
<michaelrawson> hi. :)
<gilir> as usual, aganda is here : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/IRC%20Meetings/Agenda
<gilir> if you havea weekly report, but nothing to ssay, please ping me outsite the meeting so I can move forward
<Yorvyk> o/
<gilir> #topic gilir Review ACTIONS from the last meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  gilir Review ACTIONS from the last meeting
<gilir> The only action item is the bug about gtk theming
<gilir> I know rafael work on it, but he is working on the correction of the theme itself for now :)
<gilir> #topic phillw - Weekly report - Update from QA meeting and team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  phillw - Weekly report - Update from QA meeting and team
<phillw> hi, apart from eagerly awaiting the theme, progress is being made on the Mac stuff. If I can just a ask people to take a look at the iso tracker page ready for beta 2 release candidate rtesting :)
<phillw> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
<phillw> that's all :)
<gilir> thanks phillw :)
 * gilir will talk about the theme in the devs report :)
<gilir> #topic Unit193 - Weekly report - Update from IRC OP's team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Unit193 - Weekly report - Update from IRC OP's team
<Unit193> Right, was working on something else, but there is a session coming up.
<Unit193> Rescheduled for Monday 12th, calendars etc will be sorted out.
<gilir> Unit193, what type of session ?
<Unit193> OP session, how to deal with people and teh tech side of it.
<gilir> ok :)
<gilir> Unit193, anything else ?
<Unit193> Unless I'm missing something, there's only another IRC team meeting coming up.
<gilir> ok thanks Unit193 :)
<gilir> unless phillw have something to add, I'll skip comm and support team
<moergaes> o/
<gilir> yes moergaes ?
<phillw> I'm just waiting to hear back from the team re-doing theme fior ubuntu.net
<phillw> as to if I am to install a drupal server for them, orr
<phillw> or they're going to liase with mario about tansferring the theme over.
<moergaes> That was what I looked for...
<moergaes> How the project is going.
<gilir> phillw, is the theme finished and ready to use ?
<phillw> I think they're happy with it. It needs putting to the list for comments I think.
 * MrChrisDruif has arrived
<gilir> phillw, yes, I think some sort of annoucement is required
<gilir> so everyone can comment and / or approve the new theme "officialy"
<phillw> I'll get something organised :)
<gilir> phillw, no need to be complicated, just a mail with 1 or 2 sentences is enough I think :)
<MrChrisDruif> The theme is ready and link is provided on the mailing-list/is implemented in 12.04?
<phillw> That's the plan :)
<moergaes> If we could get this done in March it would be great.
 * phillw goes though logs to find the link
<phillw> I'll try and get it done tonight!
<gilir> thanks phillw :)
<moergaes> I guess in April we will all be busy with the new release.
<gilir> moergaes, it sounds good, we just need to check with Mario if it's technicaly possible
<moergaes> :-)
<gilir> phillw, anything to add for the comm team ?
<phillw> no, the fb area seems to be happily going along.
<gilir> :)
<gilir> #topic gilir - Weekly report - Update from Devs teams
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  gilir - Weekly report - Update from Devs teams
<gilir> 2 main topics from the devs
<gilir> 1 : many patches and bug fixes was uploaded to precise this week
<gilir> also, it would be appreciate if people can double check if the bugs they reported in previous version of Lubuntu still apply in precise
<gilir> cleaning the bug tracker (launchpad) shoudl be one of the top priority of the dev
<MrChrisDruif> Is there an easy way to inspect all the bugs someone has reported?
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, on the page of the people on launchpad, you have a link for this
<gilir> for me : https://bugs.launchpad.net/~gilir/+reportedbugs
<MrChrisDruif> Great, thanks
<gilir> just change my nickname by yours :)
<gilir> any comment about a test on precise on the bug is welcome :)
<gilir> 2 : work on the theme is in progress
<gilir> I'm working with raffael, adn progress are good
<gilir> but you have a be patient a bit more :)
<gilir> nothing more for devs report, any questions ?
<gilir> #topic MrChrisDruif - Weekly report - Update from Docs team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  MrChrisDruif - Weekly report - Update from Docs team
<MrChrisDruif> Yes, much to report
<MrChrisDruif> First major one is that https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/DocumentationHelp has all it sub-pages moved and redirected to [help]
<MrChrisDruif> I'd like to request to send an email to the lubuntu-users mailing-list to check if I've got all the pages (more eyes can spot things one pair can't)
<MrChrisDruif> With a 5 day period to report mishaps
<MrChrisDruif> After that I'd like to redirect https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/DocumentationHelp to [help] as well
<MrChrisDruif> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/DocumentationHelp
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, looks like a good plan :)
<MrChrisDruif> Secondly I've updated https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu/Documentation/RemoveOldKernels with more useful commands and even an automated command to remove all unused kernels
<MrChrisDruif> #link https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu/Documentation/RemoveOldKernels
<MrChrisDruif> I've put a major warning in there that it removes ALL kernels except the current one
<MrChrisDruif> And I've also updated https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu/Documentation/MinimalInstall with references to the packages pages to let users know what they are getting with the different packages
<MrChrisDruif> #link https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu/Documentation/MinimalInstall
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, do you test this automatic command on your own system ? :)
<MrChrisDruif> gilir; Yes
<MrChrisDruif> It worked without a flaw
<gilir> ok, with the warning, it should be ok
<MrChrisDruif> I could explain how the command worked, but would need some time to rework it
<michaelrawson> o/
<MrChrisDruif> I got it from some site, webupd8 I believe
<MrChrisDruif> michaelrawson?
<Yorvyk> I don't like the idea of leaving only one kernel
<michaelrawson> that applies to all *buntu, surely? Better as a global page?
<Yorvyk> I think the warnings need to be stronger with a suggestion that two kernels is safer.
<MrChrisDruif> Yorvyk; It is properly mentioned on the page that it removes all but the current and should only be used by experienced users that know what they are doing
<gilir> Yorvyk, as long as the one you keep is tested, and work fine, I don't see it as a problem
<MrChrisDruif> michaelrawson; agreed, but currently there isn't a page for that on the wiki
<jalcine> Hmm. What happens if a user needs an older kernel in order to install drivers?
<jalcine> Or some sort of unprecedented regression issue occurs?
<michaelrawson> MrChrisDruif-okay by me.
<phillw> MrChrisDruif: we can look to move it to main help-wiki area.
<MrChrisDruif> jalcine; again, it's properly mentioned on the page that it should only be used by users knowing what they are doing
<MrChrisDruif> And installing older kernels can still be done with synaptic afaik
<MrChrisDruif> phillw; that would be nice, but I think it needs some work before it can be moved
<jalcine> Alrighty, then I'm for it.
<jalcine> Well, I'm talking before loading of said kernel, like at post-Grub.
<gilir> thanks MrChrisDruif, anything to add ?
<michaelrawson> +1 from me, but I really think someone should at least understand what that code does. Otherwise something could unexpectedly break...
<MrChrisDruif> jalcine; if you check that page, it'll reference to a page for people who've even removed ALL kernels with the manual way
<MrChrisDruif> This automatic command is safer if you ask me
<jalcine> Hmm. okay.
<phillw> +1 I wrote that page when someone did that!
<Yorvyk> I'm not against it in principal,  people just don't take warnings as seriously as they should.
<MrChrisDruif> michaelrawson; If you want, I can reverse engineer the code to prove that it is a solid command
<michaelrawson> Not my decision-but it might be a good idea IMO.
<Yorvyk> Apt should do this anyway.
<michaelrawson> I appreciate that it works-I just ran it, but it's kinda fiddly to debug.
<MrChrisDruif> #action MrChrisDruif Reverse engineer the command for automatic old kernel removal
<meetingology> ACTION: MrChrisDruif Reverse engineer the command for automatic old kernel removal
<MrChrisDruif> Nothing else to add from me  gilir =)
<MrChrisDruif> Questions?
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, I think Yorvyk is right, an apt command may do it without the need of a sed + dpkg
<gilir> any kernel no necessary is marked as obsolet in synatic
<michaelrawson> doesn't autoremove do it?
<gilir> so it should be possible to remove them with apt
<MrChrisDruif> I got the command from webupd8 if I remember correct, if anyone has a command with apt with the same function
<phillw> michaelrawson: no, autoremove is not trusted with kernels :)
<MrChrisDruif> michaelrawson; linux-image is blocked from autoremove
<gilir> michaelrawson, probably, but you need to only autoremove the kernel, not sure it's possible in a 1-line command
<michaelrawson> ahah, fair enough. I stand corrected. :)
<Yorvyk> Auto remove only works with the header files.
<Yorvyk> I have the apt command some where, I'll hunt it down.
<gilir> ok, let's search for it after the meeting :)
<MrChrisDruif> Appreciated Yorvyk
<gilir> #topic Any Other Business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Any Other Business
<gilir> we need to book the next meetings on the fridge :)
<Yorvyk> I'll be looking om Friday when I have time :)
<phillw> +1
<MrChrisDruif> It's not on there?
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, I check before the meeting, they was gone
<MrChrisDruif> All?
<MrChrisDruif> I see what happened, anyhow
<MrChrisDruif> What channel for the double booked ones?
<phillw> I think -offtopic is best placed, to keep main support channel free
<MrChrisDruif> +1
<gilir> phillw, ok let's go for it
<gilir> any other topics ?
<gilir> ok, let's finish th emeeting
<gilir> thanks everyone :)
<phillw> As always, thanks for chairing, gilir :)
<gilir> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Mar  7 20:56:21 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-07-20.04.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-07-20.04.html
<michaelrawson> thanks gilir.
<moergaes> thanks, bye
<Yorvyk> OK, bye - must dash.
<michaelrawson> bye everyone! Have a nice week.
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-03-08
<suet> hi
<bazhang> hi
<suet> just join  ---  could not find a CamStudio for ubuntu,,,,  installed the ubuntu desktop recorder did not find that very good, so I installed the ffmpeg and x264 ,,  any in depth instruction on how to use that, any command based recorder there ?
<ogra_> suet, for support please go to #ubuntu ... this is a channel for team meetings
<suet> sorry,,,,,apologize
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-03-09
<sukkerry>  i'm new person in this channel and not very good in english hopely understand
 * skaet waves
 * ara waves
<roadmr> heey!
<skaet> hiya ara,  you representing hardware certifiacation this week?
<ara> skaet, yes
<skaet> ara,  coolio,  you see the note about the new format we'll be trying?
<ara> skaet, yep;
<cjwatson> hi
<skaet> :)
<skaet> hiya cjwatson
 * stgraber waves
<mdeslaur> hi!
<pitti> hello
<ogasawara> o/
 * skaet sees quorum gathering and says hello to all...  time to start.
<Riddell> hi
<gilir> hi :)
 * ogra_ lurks
<arosales> Hello
<skaet> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Mar  9 16:00:37 2012 UTC.  The chair is skaet. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<highvoltage> bonjour
<skaet> [TOPIC] Release general overview - skaet
<skaet> Please remember to .. when you're done, and o/ if you want us to pause. :)
<skaet> Agenda can be found:
<skaet> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2012-03-09
<skaet>  Individual team status links will be added to it from:
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release general overview - skaet
<skaet>  #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-March/thread.html
<skaet> .
<skaet>  Schedule is at:
<skaet>  #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule
<skaet>  #link http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars/ubuntu-release-calendar/
<skaet> .
<skaet> Thank you for your help getting Beta 1 out the door!
<skaet> We remain in UserInterfaceFreeze and FeatureFreeze.
<skaet>  .
<skaet> Upcoming Dates:
<skaet> â¢ 2012/03/22 - Beta Freeze at 2100 UTC
<skaet> â¢ 2012/03/22 - DocumentationStringFreeze at 2100 UTC
<skaet> â¢ 2012/03/29 - Beta 2
<skaet> .
<skaet>  Bugs committed to be fixed by the engineering teams can be found:
<skaet>  #link http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-bugs/reports/rls-p-tracking-bugs.html
<skaet> Bugs that you would like the engineering teams to consider for fixing, should be assigned to specific teams, so they can be found.
<skaet> .
<skaet> Individual Team Statuses Received by 1500 UTC:
<skaet> Hardware Certification - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-March/000922.html- ara
<skaet> Quality Assurance -  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-March/000916.html - jibel
<skaet> Security team  - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-March/000926.html - mdeslaur
<skaet> Kernel team - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-March/000917.html - ogasawara
<skaet> Foundations - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-March/000928.html-  cjwatson
<skaet> Server - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-March/000919.html- arosales
<skaet> Linaro - no update received  - fabo
<skaet> Ubuntu One - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-March/000927.html -  joshuahoover
<skaet> Desktop Team - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-March/000920.html - pitti
<skaet> Unity Framework Team - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-March/000925.html - dbarth
<skaet> Unity Services and Settings - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-March/000923.html - Cimi
<skaet> Kubuntu https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-March/000932.html- Riddell
<skaet> Edubuntu https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-March/000918.html- stgraber or highvoltage
<skaet> Xubuntu - no update received - madnick
<skaet> Ubuntu Studio - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-March/000931.html - scott-work
<skaet> Lubuntu  - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-March/000929.html - gilir
<skaet> Mythbu
<skaet> hmm... looks like I hit a buffer limit there.  getting the rest..
<skaet> Mythbuntu - no update received - superm1
<skaet> .
<skaet> [TOPIC] Question and Answer Session
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Question and Answer Session
<fabo> skaet: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-March/000935.html
<skaet> thanks fabo.   :)
<fabo> xubuntu: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-March/000937.html
<skaet> I'll start it off with first question,  anyone have questions about the format for this week?
 * dbarth waves
<pitti> shoudl be quite a bit faster this way
<pitti> and also encourages people to send detailled reports in time
<skaet> :)  am hoping so.
<skaet> ..
<pitti> o/
<cjwatson> o/
<skaet> go pitti
<pitti> does anyone know the status of packaging the lightdm greeter? micahg, gilir?
<Riddell> working great here, we are using it in kubuntu active
<gilir> pitti, I know micahg was working on it, no news since some days
<Riddell> presumably you mean a gtk greeter
<pitti> yes, lightdm-gtk-greeter
<pitti> it's been NBS for months now
<pitti> or one month -- at least way longer than it ought to be
<gilir> pitti, he's busy, I can finish the work next week
<cjwatson> right, that's been bothering me too
<gilir> (if he is busy)
<gilir> just need to know if he is close to upload :)
<pitti> ..
<skaet> o/ (me queueing up for after cjwatson ;) )
<skaet> cjwatson go..
<Riddell> o/
<Daviey> o/
<gilir> ..
<cjwatson> Riddell: could somebody from Kubuntu have a look at Steve's proposed fix for bug 901638 and make sure it actually works?  we'd like to clear this bug out of the way
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 901638 in soprano (Ubuntu Precise) "Remove iodbc2 (causes upgrade failure from Oneiric to Precise)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/901638
<cjwatson> ..
<pitti> . o O { meeting bot should have a #next function }
<Riddell> cjwatson: can do, probably not today though but monday sure
<cjwatson> great, thank you
 * skaet thinks that #next would be useful here too... hmmm
<skaet> .. ?
<cjwatson> yes
<skaet> pitti,  in Cimi's update, there are some features he's asking if a FFe is needed for,  some of them strike me as cleanup/logical extensions of an approved feature - what do you think?
<skaet> * GMenuModel support in HUD/Appmenus
<skaet>    - https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-appmenu/+bug/924007
<skaet> * Improved support for XUL applications
<skaet>   - https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-appmenu/+bug/921231
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 924007 in Application Menu Indicator "Add GMenuModel support to HUD" [High,Fix committed]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 921231 in Application Menu Indicator "XUL Applications don't show up in HUD" [High,Confirmed]
<skaet> ..
<pitti> skaet: will look at the bugs and answer there, to do this async
<pitti> ..
<Cimi> hx
<skaet> thanks pitti.
<skaet> ..
<pitti> neither of them are FFEs
<skaet> Riddell go
<Riddell> actually just a statement
<Riddell> I have a pandboard that works now..
<ogra_> \o/
<skaet> \o/  :)
<Riddell> but it only works on oneiric, precise images don't work
<Riddell> so more debugging needed with ogra_ and his friends :)
<ogra_> :)
<ogra_> you know where to find me
<Riddell> oh I had another question
<ogra_> ..
<Riddell> how was Beta 1 for everyone?
<stgraber> pretty good, besides the manual partitioning exploding because of gtk/atk/... it seems to have worked quite nicely (from an Ubuntu and Edubuntu point of view)
<stgraber> ..
<skaet> Mythbuntu got hit with the API change that lubuntu worked around.  :(
<Riddell> groovy, appologies to those flavours I randomly deleted packages from, thanks to micahg and others for fixing that
<pitti> Riddell: you did a fine job keeping up with the steps and all the images
<skaet> Riddell,   +1  - thanks for all your help last week.  :)
<Riddell> ..
<skaet> o/
<skaet> Daviey go
<Daviey> Hey!
<Daviey> I'd like to consider bug 950936
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 950936 in qemu-kvm (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Expose VMX through default CPU type, if host CPU supports it, to support nested virt on Intel" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/950936
<Daviey> i'd like hallyn's input, but wondered if anyone else was nervous about it
<skaet> Daviey, yeah, I fall into the camp of a bit nervous.
<Daviey> EOM
<Daviey> ..
<skaet> would need to know more info though.  seems an area for suprises - what sort of testing has been done on it already?
<skaet> ..
<stgraber> it's not going to break anything by default at least and it sounds a bit weird turning on nesting in kvm and not exposing the flag to the guests
<stgraber> (as in, kvm simply doesn't work in VMs on intel at the moment, so can't go a lot worse)
<stgraber> ..
<Daviey> stgraber: right, upstream has it enabled for SVM, but not VMX
<Daviey> stgraber: it doesn't?!
<skaet> stgraber, heh,  didn't realize that.
<Daviey> oh, kvm you mean
<Daviey> right
<Daviey> i'll hold off for hallyn's input.. but just wanted it known, i was considering it
 * skaet nods
<skaet> .. ?
<Daviey> ..
<skaet> dbarth: when will unity 5.8 and unity-2d 5.8 be landing (not seeing in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/ReleaseSchedule)?   any other updates before beta 2 freeze anticipated?
<Cimi> skaet, unity 22th march
<arosales> o/
<Cimi> not sure of unity-2d, guess the same date or before
<skaet> Cimi, do you have projected dates for the rest of your FFe/UIFe's landing?
<Cimi> skaet, FFe:
<Cimi> 1) LIM maybe not landing
<Cimi> 2) overlay scrollbars code done - waiting reviews
<dbarth> skaet: not planned yet sorry, i estimate after the beta freeze, otherwise we'll be too short for another round of testing
<Cimi> 3) utouch work I guess will be proposed next week
<dbarth> skaet: there's no more feature dev. or important changes, it's really about nailing the high and criticals down
<Cimi> potential UIFe but I just have heard of it, need to double check
<skaet> thanks Cimi.
<Cimi> skaet, we're doing weekly releases for the rest of the projects
<Cimi> skaet, releasing bugfixes
<Cimi> and only them
<skaet> thanks Cimi (and appreciate the bug fixes.  ;) )
<Cimi> you have to thanks engineers :-)
<skaet> :)
<skaet> thanks dbarth.   Ok,  will keep an eye on that ReleaseSchedule - please ping me offline if something changes.
<skaet> ..
<skaet> arosales go
 * arosales is a bit new to the MIR and release process, apologies.
<arosales>  Is 64 MIR requests (https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mir_ normal for this point in the release?
<arosales> ..
<Daviey> heh.
<dbarth> skaet: actually for the 22 (checked with didrocks); will update the schedule accordingly
<Daviey> There are still more to come, i fear.
<skaet> cjwatson, pitti, ^ care to give some historical perspective.
<skaet> ?
<Daviey> Many of the are blocked on security review, they are rightly overwhelmed.  Not much we can do about that.
<Daviey> jdstrand's team are working as hard as they can.
<pitti> historically we didn't use to have that many after FF
<pitti> but 64 is a bit absurd indeed
<stgraber> quite a few seem to cover multiple packages, some others are for baltix and shouldn't appear in the list at all, still a pretty long list though
<pitti> many of them are quite old, though
<stgraber> ..
<arosales> Daviey: +1 on jdstrand's team working as hard as they can.
<Daviey> The lion share is server :(
<Daviey> Many of our requirements landed rather late this cycle.
<pitti> and e. g. bug 932833 has a dozen tasks alone
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 932833 in ktp-auth-handler (Ubuntu) "[MIR] telepathy-kde" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/932833
<Daviey> One, jdstrand's team did.. for a whole new upstream rewrite to happen, which invalidated it
<Daviey> jdstrand has been cracking them out tho, starting yesterday :)
<mdeslaur> jdstrand is *awesome* :)
<skaet> +1 :)
<jdstrand> wow, my hilight is on fire :)
 * jdstrand is trying
<arosales> keep rocking it jdstrand
<jdstrand> thanks :)
<skaet> .. ? arosales
<arosales> Thanks for the background information
<arosales> ..
 * skaet not seeing any queued up questions, so going ahead and asking another of hers
<ScottK> \o
<skaet> tumbleweed or Laney - how go the universe FTBFS?
<skaet> ..
<skaet> hmm.. may not be around
<skaet> go ScottK
<ScottK> There's more than a fair number of removal and component move bugs queued up on https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-archive.  Could someone with powerz have a look?
<stgraber> ScottK: +1
<ScottK> Also there's an FFe pending for syslog-ng that it seems like if we are going to do it we should do it soon.  Could someone who understands a bit about syslog have a look at that one?
<ScottK> Bug 950799
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 950799 in syslog-ng (Ubuntu) "Freeze exception: syslog-ng 3.3.4 (bugfixes)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/950799
<Daviey> o/
<ScottK> cjwatson: Thanks for the quick turn-around on the D-I hostname fix.
<ScottK> Daviey: Thanks.
<cjwatson> np
<Daviey> oops, what did i sign up for? :)
<cjwatson> yeah, I can have a look at archive bugs, I guess.
<skaet> ScottK,  will see if we can get the removal and component moves tamed.    I'll see if I can help.
<ScottK> Thanks cjwatson.
<ScottK> Daviey: I thought you were volunteering for the syslog-ng FFe.
<Daviey> ScottK: Happy to review it, yes
<ScottK> Great.
<ScottK> ..
<skaet> Thanks Daviey, cjwatson.  :)
<skaet> Daviey did you have a comment/question - or were you volunteering?
<Daviey> skaet: both
<skaet> go then Daviey
<Daviey> I noticed there were a few commitsunder the name 'cdimage'
<Daviey> It doesn't seem ideal to have anonymous changes :(
<cjwatson> Don't Do That Then :)
<Daviey> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/debian-cd/ubuntu
<Daviey> cjwatson: this is what i am saying.
<Daviey> :)
<cjwatson> people should be checking out the code on their laptops and working there.  It's what I've told every single person I've ever advised regarding cdimage code access.
<cjwatson> (I'm vociferously agreeing)
<Daviey> groovy :)
<Daviey> ..
<cjwatson> Riddell: ^- I think that was you, from the character of the changes?
<Riddell> very likely
<cjwatson> please do not do that
<cjwatson> I can help you with the setup if you need it
<Riddell> yes sorry, the ways to edit those are very unclear and infinity and slangasek had different ideas
<Riddell> but anyway I should set the commit name for sure
<cjwatson> no, please do not commit on nusakan
<cjwatson> I'll hack up the cdimage account there to disable it if I have to, but would rather not :)
<ogra_> unless you do it in a local branch in your homedir :)
<cjwatson> I'll help you get it set up
<Daviey> cjwatson: commiting on nusakan isn't a problem, if you branch to ~ and set your whoami, right?
<pitti> I did a commit as "pitti" in my checkout on nusakan (in ~pitti, not ~cdimage), and merged back
<ogra_> Daviey, thats what i do
<pitti> that was what Steve or Adam recommended
<Daviey> ogra_: i noticed :)
<Riddell> see what I mean?  very unclear
<Daviey> well, commiting as cdimage on the live code, isn't right
<ogra_> Riddell, we aere all saying the same in different words :)
<Daviey> Anything else sounds ok, right cjwatson ?
<cjwatson> please work on your development system, not on nusakan
<Daviey> cjwatson: can you explain concerns?
<cjwatson> doing it in your home directory isn't such a problem but I would still strongly prefer people not to do it
<cjwatson> nusakan is a production system not a development system; even though we admittedly don't have a clear separation
<cjwatson> but it's a bad habit to get into
<Daviey> ok
<cjwatson> I will document it
<skaet> thanks cjwatson. :)
 * skaet looking around for any other hands 
<skaet> did I miss anyone?
 * skaet guesses not,  okie... time to end the meeting
<skaet> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Mar  9 16:43:49 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-09-16.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-09-16.00.html
<pitti> thanks everyone
<ogra_> thanks skaet
<pitti> I liked this style better
<Cimi> thanks skaet
<Cimi> pitti, and we saved a lot of time :D
<Daviey> skaet: good meeting, thanks!
<mdeslaur> thanks skaet!
<skaet> Thanks for your participation, ara, jdstrand, jibel, mdeslaur, ogasawara, cjwatson, arosales, Daviey, fabo, pitti, dbarth, Cimi, Riddell, stgraber, ScottK,  gilir, micahg
<mdeslaur> yes, this new format was nice!
<cjwatson> agreed
<stgraber> thanks!
<ScottK> Someone should tell the powerpc builds to peddle faster.  I had builds with 15 hours to wait when I went to bed last night and 18 hours when I woke up this morning.
<stgraber> quite enjoyed the new format too
 * ScottK too
<pitti> ScottK: amen
<pitti> ScottK: it was worse today, they had some three gcc versions to buildl
 * ScottK thinks we dind't highlight jdstrand enough though.
<mdeslaur> ScottK: did someone forget to feed the hamster again? :)
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: jdstrand jdstrand
<skaet> ScottK,  re: powerpc,  still hoping for that faster machine to be installed.... but it hasn't been...
<ScottK> pitti: I think there were three of them (one from a PPA)  and a kernel.
 * ScottK nods
<jdstrand> stop! :P
<ScottK> OK everyone.  jdstrand says to stop.
<ScottK> ;-)
<jdstrand> :)
<skaet> :)
 * pitti hugs jdstrand
 * jdstrand hugs pitti, mdeslaur, arosales, Daviey, skaet and ScottK 
<jdstrand> I think I snagged everyone :)
<arosales> :-)
<arosales> Thanks for moderating skaet
<Daviey> 3 cheers for jdstrand
<Daviey> hip hip
<cjwatson> ScottK: the RT on the third powerpc buildd has actually been making progress: they've moved packages.ubuntu.com off it, and they've set up a machine which will take over ns2.canonical.com
<ScottK> cjwatson: Cool.
<ScottK> We could certainly use it.
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-03-04
<jdstrand> hi!
<mdeslaur> hello!
<jjohansen> \o
<tyhicks> Hi
<sarnold> o/
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Mar  4 18:02:18 2013 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<jdstrand> UDS is this week. Be sure to check the schedule for things to attend and subscribe to blueprints
<jdstrand> atm, we are leading just one session on webkit, but there is a lot of others to attend
 * jdstrand is leading the webkit one
<jdstrand> we decided not to rehash the stuff we are currently working on and will just plan for the months based on what we have, since it is all still relevant
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I'm on community this week
<jdstrand> this week is mostly about planning and UDS for me
<jdstrand> I'm also on the books to patch pilot (I may do that late in the week)
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm in the happy place this week! :P
<mdeslaur> this week, I'm working on python-django, and will be attending UDS
<mdeslaur> I have a couple of bugs to investigate
<mdeslaur> and will pick something else off the CVE list time-premitting
<mdeslaur> that's it for me
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm on apparmor again this week.
<sbeattie> Still working on the display manager prototype.
<sbeattie> I'll also be prepping for ad attending UDS.
<sbeattie> s/ad/and/
<sbeattie> that's it for me, tyhicks?
<tyhicks> I need to do some prep for UDS today (and obviously attend it tue and wed)
<tyhicks> I am finishing the kernel and libapparmor query interface patches
<tyhicks> That's probably about it
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> well I am prepping for and attending UDS this week
<jjohansen> after which I will be syncing up with tyhicks on the new query interface and testing dbus with the base socket labeling
<tyhicks> Oh yeah, I'll also be updating the dbus code to use the socket based labeling
<tyhicks> jjohansen: I see that a new raring kernel is out, so I'll also rebase our apparmor patches in the dbus-dev PPA
<jjohansen> and if there is time I will also work on fixing some of the stacking problems when the stack is split across a namespace
<jjohansen> sarnold: your up
<sarnold> I'm on triage this week, uds of course, and going through John's patches (yay, I'm past rcu :)
<sarnold> I'm looking forward to some tyhicks's patches too :D nom nom nom
<sarnold> jdstrand: back to you
<jdstrand> thanks
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/beaker.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gnustep-base.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/cobbler.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/squidclamav.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/qmail.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Mar  4 18:21:42 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-03-04-18.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-03-04-18.02.html
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, tyhicks, jjohansen, sarnold: thanks!
<sarnold> thanks jdstrand :)
<tyhicks> thanks!
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
<kees> \o/
<pitti> hello
<jbicha> o/
 * pitti moderates soren's apology
<kees> based on email, cjwatson is not available for this meeting.
<kees> ah, okay, soren too.
<kees> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Mar  4 21:00:09 2013 UTC.  The chair is kees. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<kees> so, Apologies from cjwatson and soren. stgraber, here?
<kees> [topic] Action review
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Action review
<kees> seems like UbuntuKylin is on its way. were there any unresolved actions from that?
<pitti> I'm still not fully happy with the fcitx thing
<pitti> but I guess that's a matter for debate and decision/testing within the Kylin community
<pitti> the other issues were clarified AFAICS
<kees> but it's in progress, right? I guess I mean, are there any things the TB needs to examine during this meeting?
<kees> okay, coll
<kees> er, cool
<kees> [TOPIC] Brain storm review
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Brain storm review
 * stgraber waves
<kees> I didn't see any new replies...
<pitti> kees: not that I c an see
<pitti> kees: no; TBH, I think at this point we should call this round "done"
<kees> okay
<pitti> but wrt. to this, I don't think that even this round was terribly useful
<kees> yeah, it seemed pretty quiet.
<pitti> even the most favorite one only got some 60 votes or so
<kees> should we do one more cycle starting in may and if it's similarly quiet, just drop it?
<pitti> we could also bury it now and see whether anyone complains
<pitti> but we should perhaps do this when we have more TB members
<pitti> bonsoir stgraber
<kees> agreed. let's bump it until we have >3 at the meeting :)
<kees> [TOPIC] Scan the mailing list archive
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Scan the mailing list archive
<kees> only thing here might be the release cycle changes
<pitti> I think we should defer this until after UDS
<kees> yeah, agreed.
<pitti> although I guess most things already popped up on the ML
<pitti> (which was actually a really good discussion IMHO)
<kees> I'm going to go through the ubuntu-devel thread a little more carefully and see if I can comment usefully on any of it
<stgraber> I believe the plan is for someone to e-mail the TB with a real proposal shortly after UDS, we can pick it up from there
<kees> ok
<kees> I also see "Flavor Review Request for Ubuntu GNOME"
<pitti> oh right, I was meaning to reply to that, but forgot, sorry
<kees> yeah, me too :P
<stgraber> ah yeah, jbicha poked me about that one on IRC... should have followed up too
<kees> I'm generally in favor of it. I'd like to see the same for a MATE flavor once it's all the way in Debian too.
<stgraber> and slangasek asked me to check the current state of Kylin and start creating the packageset and matching teams for it
<jbicha> hi :) the rolling thing is a bit disruptive but I think we still want to go ahead with our proposal for now
<pitti> hey jbicha
<mdz> kees, MATE?
<kees> mdz: yes, Gnome 2 fork. It's wonderful.
<pitti> jbicha: with "All of the packages we need have been in Ubuntu since last September." you mean all the build deps for the gnome3 PPA?
<pitti> jbicha: as I understand it, the gnome PPA is actually delivering what you want, or do you envision the current raring gnome (i. e. mostly 3.6) as that remix, and just use different default settings with it?
<jbicha> pitti: I meant things like ubuntu-gnome-meta and ubuntu-gnome-default-settings (which contains our minimal artwork)
<pitti> jbicha: ok, so ubuntu gnome == what's in the distro, and the PPA is the staging area for contributors still?
<jbicha> the PPA does not provide us with daily image builds or recognition as an equal flavor with like Kubuntu or Xubuntu which is nice for marketing purposes
<jbicha> there is demand for images with the GNOME3 PPA pre-installed...I don't know if we want to discuss that at this meeting?
<pitti> so in general I'm very favorable of this; we should cross-check it against the list of requirements for flavours
<pitti> stgraber, do you happen to have that link handy? ^
<kees> yeah, no PPAs in an official image, please. :)
<pitti> ^ + 1
<jbicha> kees: ok, I wasn't planning to discuss that today either :)
<stgraber> pitti: one sec
<pitti> jbicha: but for the RR we'll eventually have the same problem of having these kind of staging areas which are eventually landed in the distro; I guess that'll use a very similar model like the gnome3 ppa
<stgraber> pitti: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecognizedFlavors
<jbicha> by the way we do have a staging ppa now too for stuff that isn't ready for the Ubuntu archives https://launchpad.net/~gnome3-team/+archive/gnome3-staging/+packages?field.series_filter=raring
<kees> stgraber: thanks. yeah, it seems like this qualifies easily.
<pitti> community interest (point 1) is certainly there
<pitti> jbicha: did ricotz, darkxst, and you sign the CoC? (I assume so)
<jbicha> the GNOME3 PPA was for stuff that we thought was ready for Ubuntu but sharing the archives with Unity meant we had to wait longer
<pitti> jbicha is in ~u-desktop, so that covers upload
<jbicha> pitti: yes all 3 of us have
<stgraber> yeah, I'm pretty sure that Ubuntu GNOME qualifies.
<pitti> and all three of you have been active for a long time already
<stgraber> they'll still need to talk to the cdimage team to make sure that there's enough space and resources to build the images, but that's a separate matter
<pitti> "follow release process" is somewhat in the air now :)
<pitti> but given that GNOME defined our original one, that's also ok :)
<pitti> right
<pitti> so as for "Guidelines to become and remain a recognized flavor", I think you're all set
<pitti> so +1 from me
<kees> yeah, I've emailed my +1.
<kees> sabdfl gave his +1. mdz, stgraber: ?
<mdz> I think i need to abstain, lacking context
<mdz> multitasking right now also
<stgraber> +1
<kees> what is the next technical step? emailing IS?
<pitti> I think so; we need sign-off that there's enough space, and then ask the release team to set up daily isos
<stgraber> so I'm going to go ahead and create packagesets + upload teams for both Kylin and UbuntuGnome
<stgraber> the respective teams can then apply with the DMB to get upload rights
<kees> okay
<stgraber> if they wish to get daily builds, they'll have to contact the cdimage team to check for space and resources for the build
 * kees nods
<stgraber> and the cdimage team may ask IS to check for space on the build machines, mirrors, tapes if required
<kees> [ACTION] stgraber to create packagesets + upload teams for Kylin and UbuntuGnome
<meetingology> ACTION: stgraber to create packagesets + upload teams for Kylin and UbuntuGnome
<stgraber> so I think we just want to highlight in the minutes that we have two new flavours, point to their wiki pages and I'll work with them to get everything setup
<kees> [TOPIC] Check up on community bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Check up on community bugs
<kees> sounds good, yeah
<kees> we have no open bugs...
<stgraber> we don't add new flavours everyday, so I expect I'll have to make part of the process as I go ;)
<kees> [TOPIC] other business?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: other business?
<kees> heh
<kees> *crickets*
<kees> next chair? mdz?
<pitti> nothing from me
<JackYu> hi, I am Jack from UbuntuKylin team. Is there anything we should go ahead?
<kees> JackYu: I think you're okay for the moment. stgraber will be pushing some buttons to finalize things.
<stgraber> JackYu: I think we have everything we need to proceed and start setting up your flavour
<kees> mdz: if the next meeting time isn't good for being chair, feel free to update the wiki. :) I'll mark you down for now.
<JackYu> Great. Thanks!
<kees> I think that's it for this time. Anything else?
<mdz> kees, it's fine, thanks and sorry
<kees> heh
<kees> np
<kees> alright everyone, thanks!
<kees> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Mar  4 21:29:17 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-03-04-21.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-03-04-21.00.html
<mdz> I think it's during pycon but I'll manage
<pitti> thanks everyone
<pitti> good night!
<kees> g'night!
<JackYu> good night!
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-03-07
<czajkowski> aloha
<beuno> o/
<SergioMeneses> czajkowski, hi
<vibhav> oi
<elfy> czajkowski: apart from you is there anyone else from the CC here? there's people from the FC here that have been up over a day
<beuno> o/
<czajkowski> elfy:  there are indeed yes
 * beuno puts his hand up higher
<czajkowski> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Mar  7 17:12:53 2013 UTC.  The chair is czajkowski. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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<czajkowski> we'll start and wait for the others to come, they're currrently on a call
<czajkowski> #topic Catch up with the Forums Council
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Catch up with the Forums Council
<czajkowski> so who is here from the forums council
<elfy> o/
<coffeecat> o/ from FC
<cariboo907> o/
<s-fox> Hello
<czajkowski> hi folks thanks for coming
<czajkowski> It's just the same as before, catch up with us, and tell us how things are going
<czajkowski> anyone can jump in and update us
<elfy> well - we're right in the middle of finishing bits to do with the forum upgrade
<elfy> members are still applying via the forum
<itnet7> they there czajkowski sorry I'm running late
<cariboo907> we've also appoint a couple of new admins
<s-fox> And mods
<czajkowski> elfy: nice to see that ticket come to a close
<sabdfl> hi all, sorry to be late
<s-fox> hello
<elfy> czajkowski: yea - we'll be creating new one for plugins to replace old ones - but we're in direct contact with a couple from IS - they've been helpful
<coffeecat> We should also say that we had first-rate support from sysadmins before, during and after upgrade. Much appreciated.
<elfy> yep
<czajkowski> nods good stuff
<czajkowski> how has the recruitment to get people on board to help/moderate ?
<s-fox> As and when needed. No issue
<czajkowski> and in general? all going well in the forums?
<czajkowski> Is there anything the CC can help with ?
<elfy> Not that I'm aware of atm
<s-fox> Not that I am aware of. If something comes up we'll let you know
<czajkowski> beuno: pleia2 cprofitt sabdfl any comments?
<sabdfl> no, just glad for the upgrade :)
<coffeecat> so are we! :)
<czajkowski> am so glad that ticket is done \o/
<beuno> +1
<elfy> so that IS can have another one to drag the average ticket age down - we'll do the upgrade to vb5 ticket this week some time
<s-fox> Vb5 isn't that far away iirc
<s-fox> Hopefully it will be easier to do
<sabdfl> hey, if you make a juju charm of it, we'll get the upgrade on day zero ;)
<elfy> looks rather horrid though imo
<cariboo907> I guess we'll have to talk to Jorge about a juju charm :)
<czajkowski> sure well anyone have any other comments so we can move on
<elfy> not me
<czajkowski> it's nice when there is good news to report :)
* czajkowski changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Loco council catch up
<czajkowski> SergioMeneses: itnet7 ping ;)
<itnet7> Hey there!
<SergioMeneses> hi all!
<czajkowski> thanks folks for coming
<elfy> cya czajkowski
<itnet7> np
<s-fox> Goodbye
<SergioMeneses> no problem :)
<beuno> so!
<beuno> LoCo council!
<beuno> how are things?
<itnet7> Not bad, things are going pretty well
<SergioMeneses> all fine here :)
<sabdfl> that's good news, i heard the world was on fire :)
<itnet7> ;-) sabdfl
<sabdfl> how are the loco's liking the mobile push?
<SergioMeneses> sabdfl, :S
<sabdfl> or not?
<itnet7> sabdfl: From what I can gather, everyone is excited about the push (well most are)
<SergioMeneses> sabdfl, there are a lot of point of view as you can see in the planet but I think things go well
<sabdfl> ok
<beuno> SergioMeneses, any of that boiling up through the LoCo's?
<beuno> I haven't seen so at least in mine
<itnet7> We have heard that a few teams chose the Global Jam as an opportunity to demo on their tablets and there has been some buzz about wanting to join in and work on porting to their phones
<SergioMeneses> sure! itnet7 has right, we did a party mobile here in Colombia
<SergioMeneses> https://www.facebook.com/events/212012785606964/
<itnet7> beuno: there has only been a few cases of people venting grievences, but we haven't been contacted by any loco teams directly surrounding any ofit
<beuno> any general concerns?
<itnet7> There are a few things we have been discussing with the Local Community teams, We have been discussing alternate references of the difference of the two Local Community Teams, changing the reference of being approved
<beuno> right
<itnet7> to something more inclusive
<beuno> are you happy with the way that discussion is going?
<itnet7> beuno: I think there has been some added discussion that seems to slow the progress. They are valid concerns, for example someone has requested us to stop referring to "LoCos" as well
<sabdfl> ?
<itnet7> due the the Spanis Translation
<sabdfl> ah
<SergioMeneses> sure
<itnet7> *Spanish
<SergioMeneses> loco in Spanish means "crazy"
<itnet7> but I think we're making progress with it
<beuno> I always found it amusing more than anything else
<itnet7> ditto ;-)
<SergioMeneses> and we are working about a new word for approve teams, here is our post http://lococouncil.ubuntu.com/2013/02/06/coming-up-with-another-term-for-approved-loco-teams-discussion/
<itnet7> The other thing we have been looking into is breaking down of teams in a sensible way when they are large geographically
<itnet7> India for example
 * beuno dreads all the wiki page renaming if the name is changed
<SergioMeneses> or Brazil (big countries)
<itnet7> beuno: agreed
<SergioMeneses> beuno, you're right
<itnet7> We are taking time to ensure that we don't try and make something harder for everyone
<beuno> can't we just have an FAQ somewhere referring to the fact that it's known it has a certain meaning in spanish, that it's not intentional, etc
<sabdfl> i always took it to mean 'crazy about ubuntu'. let's not over-stress about that one :)
<itnet7> Right!
<sabdfl> main thing is this - loco's should provide both a happy place for people with ubuntu in common to meet up and hang out
<beuno> glad these are the things being dealt with, though!
<SergioMeneses> beuno, I think so... and the teams can use the term: Local Community instead LoCo ( for Spanish teams )
<sabdfl> and also a local resource for folks who are interested in ubuntu but not yet fully engaged
<sabdfl> especially if we start showing up on phones and tablets
<itnet7> We can try and communicate that better, 'crazy about ubuntu' might really help ;-)
<SergioMeneses> Im totally agree
<itnet7> The other things we have been dealing with more or less center around team leadership concerns
<itnet7> We still have a bunch of people that contact us in wanting to get involved
<beuno> itnet7, us == the LoCo council?
<itnet7> beuno: yes
<SergioMeneses> yes
<itnet7> For the most part, everytime they e-mail us individually, we reply copying the LC
<itnet7> and everyone gets involved
<itnet7> That has really improved the communication for the LC
<itnet7> and things tend to get resolved/address faster
<beuno> itnet7, these are people contacting you to raise problems in LoCo teams?
<itnet7> Oh, beuno, I mean involved with their teams, and in the community
<beuno> or people trying to get involved locally?
<beuno> right
<SergioMeneses> beuno, locally and involve with global events like UGJ
<beuno> cool
<beuno> anything the CC can help with?
<itnet7> beuno: one of the most recent request, was that a team wasn't appearing in the LoCo Team Portal. In order for a team to appear there, they need to be a member of one of the LoCo Community Teams. He tried to contact the team owner, and received no response
<itnet7> he formed his own team
<itnet7> We helped him straighten everything out
 * beuno nods
<itnet7> He was able to list his Global Jam Event, a week ahead of the jam
<beuno> that's great
<itnet7> beuno: I can't really thinki of anything atm
<beuno> that's a good thing!  :)
<SergioMeneses> beuno, not now
<itnet7> Is there anything you have for us?
<beuno> not from me
<beuno> anyone else from the CC?
<SergioMeneses> imho this cycle is easier than the last one :) we have more experience
<czajkowski> beuno: nope al good thanks
<beuno> I think that's a warp then
<SergioMeneses> jeje
<itnet7> Awesome, Thanks !!
<beuno> warp, sheesh
<beuno> wrap!
<beuno> thank you everyone
<beuno> #endmeeting
<SergioMeneses> beuno, thanks for all! anf the CC
<beuno> czajkowski, ^
<czajkowski> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Mar  7 17:56:06 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-03-07-17.12.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-03-07-17.12.html
<SergioMeneses> see you later beuno itnet7 czajkowski
<beuno> o/
<itnet7> take care SergioMeneses
<Silverlion> ciao newlife
<newlife> ciao Silverlion :)
<hallino1> Hop hop hop :D
<hallino1> Good evening!
<mapreri> hallino1: don't spam please!!!! I understand you are overexcited, but.... ;P
<mapreri> <3
<hallino1> Shh.. mapreri :D
<mapreri> lol
<IdleOne> #startmeeting 2200 UTC Ubuntu Membership Board
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Mar  7 21:58:56 2013 UTC.  The chair is IdleOne. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 2200 UTC Ubuntu Membership Board Meeting | Current topic:
<IdleOne> Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Review Board for the 2200 UTC meeting for March 7, 2013.
<IdleOne> The wiki page for the Review Board is available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards
<IdleOne> We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting. If we are unable to make it through the entire list due to time constraints, then at the next meeting we will pick up where we left off.
<IdleOne> The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
<IdleOne> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
<IdleOne> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
<IdleOne> When the board is ready to vote, they will publicly vote in the channel with either +1, 0, or -1 (for membership, abstain, and against membership, respectively). If the sum of those numbers is positive, then the applicant is now an official Ubuntu member! (feel free congratulate them!)
<IdleOne> #voters cyphermox IdleOne PabloRubianes iulian cjohnston micahg
<meetingology> Current voters: IdleOne PabloRubianes cjohnston cyphermox iulian micahg
<IdleOne> #suntopic PaoloRotolo
<IdleOne> err
<IdleOne> #subtopic PaoloRotolo
<PaoloRotolo> thanks IdleOne
<IdleOne> PaoloRotolo: Please introduce yourself
<PaoloRotolo> Hello!
<PaoloRotolo> I'm Paolo Rotolo, 15 years old. I live in Italy, so I started contributing Ubuntu since July 2010, when I joined the Iso Testing Team and the Marketing Team.
<PaoloRotolo> I became member of Ubuntu Italy since May 2011. Now, I'm contributing to various project like tests, marketing, newsletter and developer team.
<PaoloRotolo> I'm specially active in the Marketing Team, where I made some screencasts and advertising campaigns on YouTube.
<PaoloRotolo> Out of Ubuntu Italy, I joined the Ubuntu Apps Review Board Contributors on July 2012. Here's the post of Daniel Holbach about my contribution: http://daniel.holba.ch/blog/2012/07/making-better-apps-possible/
<PaoloRotolo> Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PaoloRotolo
<PaoloRotolo> Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/~paolorotolo
<PaoloRotolo> That's all!
<IdleOne> If there is anyone here who would like to cheer on PaoloRotolo, now is the time to speak up :)
<totopalma> Paolo is a very helpful person, participates actively in our LOCO Italian team; he's involved in several projects related to marketing issues and he puts a lot of passion in what he does, so I recommend Paolo for membership!
<hallino1> PaoloRotolo: is very very active on LoCo Team.. I think he deserve the membership because it's the younger boy of ubuntu-it and it's very very very very fantastic/cool on everything he does
<iulian> PaoloRotolo: What are your plans for the future?
<IdleOne> thank you totopalma, hallino1
<WebbyIT> Paolo is fantastic, i know him in Italian Loco team and he is very enthusiastic, with a lot of good ideas :)
<IdleOne> thank you WebbyIT
<PaoloRotolo> iulian, I think I'll continue to work in the marketing team. I'm starting a new project in Italian Loco Team: Ubuntu-it Welcome
<newlife> PaoloRotolo is a great guy interested in almost all single project in ubuntu espacially in ubuntu italia :) fantastic guy!
<IdleOne> thank you newlife
<IdleOne> #vote PaoloRotolo to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: PaoloRotolo to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<mapreri> I support PaoloRotolo application. He is a very active member of our loco team, in the marketing team he have a great position, coordinating some sub-projects
<IdleOne> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from IdleOne
<micahg> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg
<PabloRubianes> +1
<IdleOne> thank you mapreri
<meetingology> +1 received from PabloRubianes
<cjohnston> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cjohnston
<iulian> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from iulian
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<IdleOne> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: PaoloRotolo to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<hallino1> Congrats PaoloRotolo :)
<meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<IdleOne> Congrats PaoloRotolo
<iulian> PaoloRotolo: OK great. Thanks. Congratulations.
<PabloRubianes> congrats PaoloRotolo
<mapreri> PaoloRotolo: congrats!!
<newlife> WOW congratulation PaoloRotolo :D
<PaoloRotolo> Thanks all!!
<micahg> PaoloRotolo: If you have an interest in packaging, you might be interested in applying for upload rights for what you maintain in Debian
<IdleOne> #subtopic hallino1 to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<IdleOne> hallino1: Introduce yourself please
<hallino1> Good evening, (Sorry for my bad english) I'm Mirko, 17 years old and I from Italy. I tried Ubuntu in 2010 and I really love it.
<hallino1> I'm a student in a High School Computer Specialization. I have experience in program language with C++, Python and other, in my free time I get fun with Blender.
<hallino1> I signed up on Ubuntu-it since 18 December 2010 and I got the membership since 15 September 2012. In these years, I did a lot of things for help to grow the ubuntu-it community.
<hallino1> For example I'm on web team, fcm team, dev team and on future I'm sure I will do other also with ubuntu.com community. My motto is: "I have to learn from everyone".
<hallino1> What else, I don't know what I can say, you can see my wiki on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MirkoPizii or ask me what you want now :)
<hallino1> Ah, I forgot.. Thanks all for support me.. A big wave and hug to newlife, s.fox, jderose, and other :D
<hallino1> That's all
<IdleOne> Anybody want to cheer on hallino1 ?
<Silverlion> me
<WebbyIT> hallino1 is the first person that i knew in Italian Loco Team. Together we did (and do) a lots for website. He is always ready to listen everyone and help who needs help :)
<totopalma> Mirko is a very helpful person and he puts a lot of passion in what he does; I'm happy to support his membership :)
<mapreri> I support hallino1 application too. He is a foundamental element of the fcm translation team, making up (alone) the epub edition
<IdleOne> thank you all.
<mapreri> he also active in the wwww team, where he did a lots of items
<newlife> me too: hallino1 is  a very active member of our loco team, especiall in FCM team and others projects.
<newlife> +1
<Silverlion> when I first met with hallino1 he was on my line from the beginning meaning that both of us had the same ideas and were able to co-op from the start. as i already wrote in my recommendation, I do not see any better candidate for membership then hallino1
<newlife> oops...
<IdleOne> #vote hallino1 to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: hallino1 to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<cjohnston> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cjohnston
<IdleOne> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from IdleOne
<micahg> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg
<iulian> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from iulian
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<IdleOne> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: hallino1 to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<IdleOne> Congrats hallino1 and welcome
<hallino1> Thank you guys! :)
<newlife> WOWOWOWOOW GREAT hallino1 :) congrats!
<Silverlion> congratz man!
<PabloRubianes> congrats hallino1
<Silverlion> you deserved it ;)
<IdleOne> Congrats to all the applicants. We hope you keep up the great work.
<mapreri> hallino1: MITICO!!!
<hallino1> Thanks newlife :)
<PaoloRotolo> congratz hallino1 :D
<hallino1> Bella ragazzi :D
<hallino1> Grazie PaoloRotolo :P
<IdleOne> Is there any other business the board needs to discuss?
<cyphermox> congrats both! :)
<cjohnston> Where are the drinks IdleOne ?
<cyphermox> IdleOne: attendance?
<WebbyIT> Ahhh, italians... fantastic ;)
<IdleOne> cyphermox: attendance?
<hallino1> Italian do it better :P
<cyphermox> we've had some issues with it being hard to get quorum sometimes, I think
<mapreri> another time :)
<newlife> cmon guys....... take a shower and offer some beers! :D
<cyphermox> we can certainly discuss that over the ML though
<hallino1> Of course newlife we have to do it ! :P
<cyphermox> (since it's for both boards)
<newlife> hallino1: the shower? or offer beers?
<newlife> lol
<IdleOne> cyphermox: yes, Pendulum is working on getting info about that. Going to wait to see what she finds out.
<cyphermox> ack
<cyphermox> then no other business I guess :)
<hallino1> newlife: maybe both lol
 * cyphermox grabs coffee and heads to law class
<IdleOne> Well, thanks for coming to the show. We hope you had a good time. Don't forget to tip your bartender. Good night.
<IdleOne> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Mar  7 22:15:14 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-03-07-21.58.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-03-07-21.58.html
<IdleOne> 15 minute meetings FTW. Like a drive by but with less bullets wasted
<newlife> goodnight everyone! :)
<s-fox> Lol IdleOne
<hallino1> Hey s-fox :P
<hallino1> s-fox: you missed this moment :)
<mapreri> better late than never
<mapreri> hallino1: â
<hallino1> Yeah of course mapreri :P
<s-fox> Hey hallino1 , sorry I got delayed ( issues with a guitar of all things)
<mapreri> good night everyone!
<hallino1> Ohoho don't worry s-fox.. :)
<hallino1> s-fox: You play guitar?
<s-fox> But I said id be here and I missed it, so I should apologise.
<s-fox> hallino1: Badly. I prefer piano lol
<hallino1> Ohh s-fox.. I play guitar for 7-8 years :)
<hallino1> So don't worry s-fox all gone good :)
<hallino1> (gone or went? My english is awful)
<s-fox> hallino1:  ooh love to hear at some point. This Is the last thing I didn't totally murder (guitar at the end) http://youtu.be/tGVDlDeVkbg
<IdleOne> went
<hallino1> Thanks IdleOne :)
<hallino1> I like s-fox
<hallino1> s-fox: congrats :P
<hallino1> So sorry but I have to go.. It's late (00:00) and tomorrow I have school..
<hallino1> Good night and thanks for all.. s-fox IdleOne and other
<s-fox> Goodnight :)
<[1]captaincanuck> is ubuntu still the most popular distribution?
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-03-08
<mhall119> #startmeeting Ubuntu TV discussion
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Mar  8 18:01:55 2013 UTC.  The chair is mhall119. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu TV discussion Meeting | Current topic:
<mhall119> hi everybody, who is here for the Ubuntu TV meeting?
<jhodapp> mhall119, let's try now :)
<YoBoY> hi mhall119, here but just to follow (not participating :p)
<pinguy> YoBoY, same here. Would like to see how this is handled
<_danialjose> just to watch
<mhall119> I'm going to give a few more minutes, I hope some of the TV community guys can make it
<jhodapp> hey tgm4883
<tgm4883> o/
<pinguy> Doesn't seem like much work has been done to Ubuntu TV for awhile now: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntutv-dev-team/ubuntutv/trunk/files
<pinguy> Would be nice to see how far it has come
<mhall119> ok, I'm going to get started with some of the back story
<mhall119> #topic History
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu TV discussion Meeting | Current topic:  History
<tgm4883> do we have more people here than normal?
<mhall119> tgm4883: yeah, I put out a call for more discussion
<mhall119> so, around this time last year Canonical debuted the Ubuntu TV at CES, and it was a pretty big hit
<mhall119> at the time, the TV UI was based on the Unity 2D code
<mhall119> which in early 2012 was still actively developed
<tgm4883> quick correction, it was uds-P
<mhall119> we opened up all of the source code that had been worked on, and recruited interested developers from the community to participate in it's development
<mhall119> tgm4883: what was?
<tgm4883> mhall119, oh wait, nm, I misread what you said
<tgm4883> carry on
<mhall119> ok
<mhall119> so by this time last year the TV was open and we were getting great contributors like tgm4883 and bobweaver on board
<mhall119> then, at UDS-Q, there was a decision made by the Unity team that actively developing 2 separate Unity codebases (2D and 3D) was too much
<mhall119> and a big dicussion followed which ultimately resulted in Unity 3D being chosen
<mhall119> I wasnt a part of those conversations, so I can't tell you what the arguments were either way
<mhall119> so, with Unity 2D no longer being actively developed, we had to shift Ubuntu TV on to Nux and the Compiz plugin that powers Unity 3D
<mhall119> and it wasn't long after that when the Canonical engineers who had been working on the multi-media functionality for the TV were also tasked with getting that same multi-media functionality working on the new Phone/Tablet codebase
<mhall119> so for several months after we had started the transition to Unity 3D, we didn't have Canonical resources to help
<mhall119> and despite a large amount of effort from bobweaver, porting it from Qt (which he was familiar with) to Nux (which he wasn't) was no simple task
<mhall119> after months of this, those of us inside Canonical were frustrated that we couldn't contribute, and concerned that our absence was holding back to the community developers
<mhall119> so jhodapp and I spent some time gathering up all the internal documentation about design and implementation details that we could, and worked to get approval to open them up to the community
<mhall119> at this point, we were pretty much "throwing it over the wall", not because we wanted to, but because if we didn't it wouldn't get over the wall at all
<mr_man> what does throwing it over the wall mean ?
<mhall119> mr_man: it's a common term for making something open source but not supporting the community around it
<mhall119> like Google does with Android, or Sun/Oracle was known to do with their open source projects
<mr_man> sounds like the last year
<mr_man> cool so Ubuntu is droping the tv ?
<pinguy> mr_man, in-house code getting out to the public
<mhall119> Now, even though the phone shell was being written in Qt/QML at this time, as far as everybody inside Canonical knew the future was still Unity 3D, and the expectation was that the phone shell would eventually be integrated into Unity 3D as well
<mhall119> mr_man: no, this is the back story
<mhall119> so for a long time we kept encouraging the community TV hackers to port to Unity 3D, because as far as *we* knew, that was the right direction to take it
<mr_man> so you all got community members to do it ?
<mhall119> mr_man: yes
<mr_man> port to 3d ? that is or are you going to tell the to do that then change your mind 5 times
<mr_man> will is on board with this ?
<mhall119> and while tgm4883 made good progress on a MythTV lens/scope that didn't depend on the UI toolkit, bobweaver was still struggling to make heads or tails of Nux and Compiz
 * tgm4883 encourages mr_man to hold his questions until the end of the history section
<mhall119> mr_man: I'm explaining what happened, not what is going to happen
<mr_man> sorry
<mr_man> I thought that bobweaver quit because of many many reasons
<tgm4883> perhaps we should open the second channel for questions?
<mhall119> mr_man: I'll get to some of that in a bit
<mhall119> finally, as the phone's releasing was approaching, the conversation inside Canonical went back to the Unity 2D vs. Unity 3D debate, and after proving how quickly and efficiently the Unity shell could be done in Qt/QML, the decision was reversed
<pinguy> a lack of communication seems to be the problem. You thought Unity 2d was dead so strating working on gettting Ubuntu TV working on Compiz, only to find out that up-stream was now using qt/Unity-2D.
<mhall119> which put us in a difficult position, we weren't allowed to talk about the phone before it was announced, but we didn't want to waste developer's time either
<mr_man> pinguy:  that is not true pm me if yyou want the truth
<mhall119> but we did discretely let bobweaver know that the debate had restarted, and there was a distinct possibility that Unity 2D, or at least a Qt/QML version of Unity, would become the new target
<bobweaver> really you did
<mhall119> Which brings us to where we are now, we have an old Unity 2D codebase, some regretably wasted time and effort on Unity 3D porting, and a new Qt/QML foundating that we want to converge all of our devices around
<mhall119> so, that's the history
<mhall119> #topic Future
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu TV discussion Meeting | Current topic:  Future
<bobweaver> maybe I should say my side of the history as it was me that wasted 3 months or more of programming
<pinguy> bobweaver, I think thats only fair
<mhall119> so we wasted a lot of development time, and burned through a non-significant amount of developer good will, but we still want to see an Ubuntu TV, and we still want it to be a community project
<mhall119> bobweaver: go ahead
<tgm4883> #topic alternate history, community edition
<mhall119> #topic more history
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu TV discussion Meeting | Current topic:  more history
<mhall119> tgm4883: feel free to add your input as well
<bobweaver> what really happened . after the last non virtual uds I was told o make nux I was also told that 3 times before then I was told back to 2d then back to this then back to that. It seems like there needs to be better leadership
<bobweaver> so it was a flip flop falure
<jhodapp> bobweaver, nobody will argue with that point I think
<bobweaver> meaning that I was lead along a fake road
<bobweaver> this is no one fault but mine
<bobweaver> but for the people in the future I do not want to see them have the same thing happen to them. so in other words you all need better leadership
<pinguy> bobweaver, was it ever at the back of your mind this may happen? Qt is really the only way to make apps fully cross platform. Compiz isn't really that great for this. From an outsider looking in. Ubuntu TV always seemed it was being made to work on many devices.
<bobweaver> I knew that it was always going to be qt
<mhall119> pinguy: sure, he was pushing us to just stick with Qt/QML the whole time
<mhall119> he was a constant advocate for it
<bobweaver> I fought that for months pinguy  the point is I do not want to see you all have something like this happen to the next bobweaver
<mhall119> tgm4883: do you have anything you want to add?
<tgm4883> just that I'm available for questions
<tgm4883> oh
<bobweaver> btw I have ubunntu tv running on my nexus 7
<mhall119> really? that's awesome
<tgm4883> and that for all the help i've asked for (testing wise), nobody has actually come though
<mhall119> are we ready to talk about the future now?
<ogra_> bobweaver, how is the signal reception ? :P
<bobweaver> listen you all are never going to get any where fighting about the code base. in this world it seems like it is about hardware and that is it. until the right people get the right tools it is not going to work
<pinguy> tgm4883, its a shame you didn't have that many testers. You probably could of done with the project being more open
<bobweaver> why build something that is for the desktop when it is going on a tv
<bobweaver> people have said that on the channel before
<tgm4883> pinguy, the stuff I need testing doesn't have anything to do with the ubuntu tv code
<mhall119> pinguy: the project was open, tgm4883 and bobweaver are both community contributors
<mhall119> alright
<tgm4883> so let me add a little here, what I actually am doing
<tgm4883> I'm a Mythbuntu developer. What I bring to the table is the Ubuntu TV integration with a MythTV backend
<tgm4883> This is done via Unity scopes, so it works on any platform that runs Unity
<bobweaver> ogra_:  I am using brodcom java drivers
<tgm4883> The requests I've had for testing are 2 things
<tgm4883> 1) Testing the scopes. This admittedly is a little more difficult, as it requires you to have a MythTV backend in your environment
<tgm4883> 2) Testing of the MythTV backend quick start guide I wrote. This is far easier for people to test, as you can do it in a VM
<mhall119> https://docs.google.com/document/d/19knOlqz8cV5_8VQ1tCvEd8tjEk6U50KsSOJCROR60o4/edit?usp=sharing
<tgm4883> Ironically, the few people that have tested the scope have given me feedback. The people that said they would test the QSG haven't given me any feedback yet
<tgm4883> Comments are open on the QSG, which is where I'm looking for them
<mhall119> I'm guilty of that, it's still on my task list, but I've been quite behind lately
<bobweaver> tgm4883:  what is QSG?
<mhall119> Quick Start Guide
<tgm4883> Quick Start Guide
<mhall119> the link I pasted above
<tgm4883> The link above is the long version, that includes every screen in the backend setup
<tgm4883> I would prefer to ship the smaller version, but it skips parts that aren't changed and may be more confusing
<tgm4883> Short version https://docs.google.com/document/d/1eGJ8gGtRqFxQ8xVWlR6XgP6FAFJEVZ-Ntq_TT8XhWEs/edit?usp=sharing
<bobweaver> tgm4883:  I will read the guide and get back to you
<mhall119> tgm4883: bobweaver: I'd like to start talking about where we go from here, since we only have 20 minutes left
<tgm4883> ok
<tgm4883> mhall119, sounds good
<mhall119> #topic Future
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu TV discussion Meeting | Current topic:  Future
<mhall119> alright, so now that everybody has the brief history of the TV project, I want to know how we progress from here
<mhall119> we still want a TV formfactor of Unity, and we still (miraculously) have community interest in it
<bobweaver> if it is going to be part of the phablet then you all should just tell them to do it they wrote the stuff to start with
<mhall119> the goal is to have it all in one codebase
<mhall119> which we're evidently calling "Unity Next"
<bobweaver> I think that they are re-writing libunity no one can do anything till then
<mhall119> which will start with the phablet code, and add in desktop and TV formfactors
<tgm4883> I think "Unity Next" developers need to develop the interface
<bobweaver> that is a HUGE trouble that there not communicating between teams that is why I am out
<pinguy> I hate to be the bad guy here, but Ubuntu TV is really only going to work with Ubuntu Touch. In the last 4 months XBMC has really come into its own.
<bobweaver> well that and many many other reasons
<tgm4883> pinguy, Unity brings more to the table than XBMC
<bobweaver> pinguy:  you wath live tv with xbmc ?
<pinguy> bobweaver, yes. It was part of the last release
<mhall119> tgm4883: the "Unity Next" developers in Canonical have a short window to both polish the phablet UI for potential OEM partners, *and* port the desktop by 13.10 time-frame
<bobweaver> also manage all your apps
<pinguy> bobweaver, the android version also manages all of your apps
<tgm4883> mhall119, it makes more sense for the Unity developers to develop the new layouts
<mhall119> if we wait for Canonical developers to port the TV UI, it's going to take a while
<jhodapp> bobweaver, that's not true, it's just Qt5 and QML so what exactly do you think you need to wait on from the unity devs?
<bobweaver> pinguy:  so then you should use it and stop telling people what they should or should not do. you know that I could have xbmc in the dash right
<bobweaver> because there is qtmediahub
<mhall119> tgm4883: they will be writing the code to support adding and switching to different formfacts, but I doubt they'll be able to port the TV UI unless we wait unti the end of this year
<bobweaver> jhodapp:  they are re-writing unity
<bobweaver> libunity I should say
<mhall119> and I really don't want to wait another year on this
<tgm4883> This is OT, but XBMC doesn't have TV capabilities built in. They farm it out and use PVR backends (such as MythTV)
<mhall119> bobweaver: yes, the libunity APIs are going to be changing, but the TV layout and what data it will need shouldn't be
<jhodapp> bobweaver, sure, but we have a phablet UI today right? what's the difference between having the TV UI today and getting it working, vs the phablet one that already works?
<bobweaver> Umm... that is not possible it listens to libunity it uses nux all of that
<tgm4883> Can't we just blow up the tablet interface and use that for TV?
<mhall119> bobweaver: the converged codebase will all be on the same libunity API
<mhall119> tgm4883: that would be a good place ot start I think
<bobweaver> the phablet is not using all the parts of unity also the main thing would be dconf-qt that right there is huge
<mhall119> but the tablet is still geared to touch input
<jhodapp> tgm4883, yes, I think that's a good place to start too
<tgm4883> mhall119, IMHO, the work that we need to do is ensure that you can control the interface via remote control
<bobweaver> also qx11info  as you all are making new server one can not do anything that is why I made into standalone app that runs on android
<mhall119> ok, things are starting to fall apart into technical implementation here, I'd like to keep this more high-level
<tgm4883> well, that and ensure you can use it from 10' away, but I think that is going to deal more with font sizes
<bobweaver> mhall119:  you ant tell people to waste there time that is not fair to them
<tgm4883> mhall119, +1
<bobweaver> bottom line ^^
<mhall119> so let's re-cap what we have and what we don't
<bobweaver> spinning wheels in the mud just gets you more stuck
<mhall119> we have the phablet codebase, we have a design spec for the TV interface, we have some existing Qt4/QML1 code that may or may not be reusable
<mhall119> we don't have: Canonical resources devoted exclusively to porting TV to the new codebase
<bobweaver> mhall119:  have you looked at the code you can not use it
<mhall119> bobweaver: I haven't but I'm not as technically proficient as you when it comes to code
<tgm4883> mhall119, perhaps a better angle would be to list all the needs (even stuff currently done), then list what is done
<bobweaver> esp because of the things that are happening with the server and libunity you are telling people to waste there time
<mhall119> tgm4883: ok
<tgm4883> eg. what is needed to ship something the community would deem "Ubuntu TV"
<mhall119> * We need the converged Unity foundation to support multiple formfactors (Canonical resources are workign on this, it doesn't exist yet)
<bobweaver> libhbris ??
<mhall119> * We need a stable set of APIs for building the interface (libunity, indicator services, hud services, etc)
<bobweaver> er wrong place so sorry
<mhall119> some of that exists, some doesn't
<bobweaver> phablet has almost all that ^^
<mhall119> Canonical resources have already been allocated to it
<mhall119> bobweaver: on the surface yes, I don't know how much is mocked and how much is subject to change
<mhall119> at the very least, the phablet's use of libunity is going to change when libunity changes
<tgm4883> for lack of a better way to mark those, I'm going to put those as actions
<bobweaver> but you all are digging your selfs deeper until the things that I have stated change then nothing can be done. OH HOW I whis that I could have talked about this at UDS
<mhall119> tgm4883: good idea
<mhall119> #action * We need the converged Unity foundation to support multiple formfactors (Canonical resources are workign on this, it doesn't exist yet)
<meetingology> ACTION: * We need the converged Unity foundation to support multiple formfactors (Canonical resources are workign on this, it doesn't exist yet)
<mhall119> #action * We need a stable set of APIs for building the interface (libunity, indicator services, hud services, etc) Canonical resources are already allocated to this
<meetingology> ACTION: * We need a stable set of APIs for building the interface (libunity, indicator services, hud services, etc) Canonical resources are already allocated to this
<bobweaver> you all need to know how this is going to work on mer
<bobweaver> Woops I mean mir
<tgm4883> IMO, it's way to early to think about mir
<mhall119> #action we need to re-create the TV shell layout and components on top of Unity Next
<meetingology> ACTION: we need to re-create the TV shell layout and components on top of Unity Next
<tgm4883> mhall119, we need remote control functionality of Unity Next
<mhall119> bobweaver: that's something that should be done in the common Unity Next code, there shouldn't be anything TV specific about it
<jhodapp> tgm4883, agreed
<bobweaver> if that is action then you are going to need all the libs that are used some are not open as of yet
<tgm4883> mhall119, I'm leaving you to add the actions so we don't duplicate them
<mhall119> #action We need Remote control/navigation in the TV shell
<meetingology> ACTION: We need Remote control/navigation in the TV shell
<bobweaver> mhall119:  what the heck are you talking about
<tgm4883> mhall119, we need a TV backend
<bobweaver> that is bull
<mhall119> *action We need to make sure that all of the libs necessary to write apps and the shell are available and open source
<bobweaver> how are you going to handle windowing how are you going to handle spread ect ect
<bobweaver> alt+tab so many things
<jhodapp> bobweaver, don't get buried in the details for now
<mhall119> *action we need to specify a data model for passing TV data between Scopes and the Shell
<bobweaver> this was all done on X before
<bobweaver> with qx11info
<mhall119> #action We need to make sure that all of the libs necessary to write apps and the shell are available and open source
<meetingology> ACTION: We need to make sure that all of the libs necessary to write apps and the shell are available and open source
<mhall119> #action we need to specify a data model for passing TV data between Scopes and the Shell
<meetingology> ACTION: we need to specify a data model for passing TV data between Scopes and the Shell
<bobweaver> so if you are going to have all the things that the TV had then you are going to have to implant all that
<mhall119> #action we need scopes that pull TV content from various backends and services that use the datamodel and new API
<meetingology> ACTION: we need scopes that pull TV content from various backends and services that use the datamodel and new API
<bobweaver> which I hear hush hush words that canonical is doing that
<mhall119> bobweaver: doing what?
<bobweaver> there is no work for the community because canonical can change anything at any second giving the community the eff bomb
<mhall119> bobweaver: that's what I'm actively working to change
<mhall119> and jhodapp has been pushing for that to change too
 * jhodapp will back mhall119 on that
<bobweaver> mhall119:  good for you I am glade to see that
<mhall119> so we're almost out of time, tgm4883 any more actions you want me to record?
<tgm4883> nope
<bobweaver> Listen the only reason that I am hear is because I have to tell you all what happend to me and how you can NOT make it happen to the next me
<mhall119> I'd like to end this by asking how you guys, on the community, want us in Canonical to work with you
<bobweaver> you know what you all can do stop laughing at people
<bobweaver> take them for real
<mhall119> bobweaver: none of us has been laughing at all about this
<jhodapp> bobweaver, come on man, that's not fair
<bobweaver> listen to them and dont clang them up to be just people make them part of the team
<bobweaver> mhall119:  should I take out the video of uds and saviq laughing ?
<bobweaver> life is not fair
<bobweaver> listen if you seee some like me again just tell them that they need to contact saviq and the other people that are too cool to show up to these meeting
<mhall119> I certainly hope that didn't happen, but if it did I apologize on their behalf
<bobweaver> even though they said that they would make it
<bobweaver> member at the last real UDS
<mhall119> bobweaver: Saviq doesn't work on TV anymore, he hasn't for some time
<mhall119> neither does jhodapp really, he's here on his own volition
<bobweaver> that is not the point the point is these are the people that CONTROL things
<bobweaver> you must make them work with people
<mhall119> bobweaver: no, they don't
<jhodapp> bobweaver, no that's not right
<bobweaver> if they dont want to then this is doomed
<mhall119> they've been yanked around and re-directed as much as you have (more probably)
 * jhodapp can attest to that
<bobweaver> if you can not work together then what do you have
<bobweaver> ?>
<bobweaver> people wasting there time
<mhall119> alright, our time is up, if anybody has any other questions, concerns or comments, you can find us in #ubuntu-tv
<mhall119> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Mar  8 19:02:21 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-03-08-18.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-03-08-18.01.html
<bobweaver> I am sure that they have been that is not what I am talking abou t
<bobweaver> until you all are way more open in the community then this is doomed to fail if you all want the community to make this happen . that is what I am saying
<bobweaver> er webchat dosent scroll down
<jhodapp> bobweaver, join #ubuntu-tv
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-03-09
<redtape-renegade> morning
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-03-10
<smartboyhw> Kubuntu Council meeting time?
<jussi> o/
<JontheEchidna> \o
<valorie> o/
 * smartboyhw waits for third person
<smartboyhw> LOL
 * valorie is .5
<smartboyhw> valorie, LOL
<valorie> however, where is your wiki page?
<smartboyhw> valorie, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/smartboyhw
<smartboyhw> Hmm weird there is three voting for this time
<smartboyhw> apachelogger should be one
<smartboyhw> And Darkwing too
<smartboyhw> WHERE ARE THEY? (LOL)
<Darkwing> pong
<smartboyhw> YEAH
<JontheEchidna> Hey, there's the third
<smartboyhw> Quorum reached:)
<Darkwing> Sorry, was a bit late to the party
<smartboyhw> No worries:)
<valorie> wow, you have been really active, smartboyhw
<JontheEchidna> Darkwing: that daylight savings hit ya?
<smartboyhw> valorie, yes of course:) (If not I wouldn't come:p)
<Darkwing> JontheEchidna: Yeah
<valorie> are you still active in all those Ubuntu teams?
<smartboyhw> valorie, yes of course:)
<JontheEchidna> Darkwing: We've just sucked one hour of your life away. Tell me, how does that make you feel?
<JontheEchidna> :P
<smartboyhw> Sorry Darkwing :P
<valorie> I'm going back to bed after we're done
<Darkwing> JontheEchidna: seeing that I went to bed 4 hours ago.. :P:P
<valorie> the sun is hardly up!
<smartboyhw> valorie, oops sorry (again)
<JontheEchidna> Anyway, we should start.
<valorie> np
<JontheEchidna> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/Meetings
<smartboyhw> OK
<valorie> we're spread across the world
<smartboyhw> Not really much motion items do we?
<JontheEchidna> Today we are discussing membership for smartboyhw
<smartboyhw> Don't forget to use the start meeting syntax JonathanD
<smartboyhw> Oops
<smartboyhw> Tab error
<smartboyhw> JontheEchidna, ^
<JontheEchidna> ~startmeeting
<JontheEchidna> !startmeeting
<smartboyhw> JontheEchidna, use #
<smartboyhw> !?
<Darkwing> #startmeeting
<JontheEchidna> oops
<meetingology> Meeting started Sun Mar 10 15:07:29 2013 UTC.  The chair is Darkwing. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<JontheEchidna> Darkwing: thanks
<smartboyhw> Got it now:)
<xnox> smartboyhw: have you been involved in UbuntuKylin? The new chinese ubuntu flavour?
<Darkwing> #meetingtopic membership of smartboyhw
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | membership of smartboyhw Meeting | Current topic:
<smartboyhw> xnox, sort of:)
<Darkwing> #meetingtopic kubuntu membership of smartboyhw
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | kubuntu membership of smartboyhw Meeting | Current topic:
<jussi> smartboyhw: give us an introduction to who you are, and your activity in Ubuntu/Kubuntu
<smartboyhw> jussi, OK
<jussi> Darkwing: #topic
<smartboyhw> I'm Howard Chan, 14-year-old active contributor to Ubuntu/Kubuntu
<Darkwing> #topic kubuntu membership of smartboyhw
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | kubuntu membership of smartboyhw Meeting | Current topic:  kubuntu membership of smartboyhw
<smartboyhw> I joined Kubuntu to start work on some development
<Darkwing> #meetingtopic kubuntu meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | kubuntu meeting Meeting | Current topic:  kubuntu membership of smartboyhw
<smartboyhw> And so I am now starting to help packaging:)
<smartboyhw> Some applications I have packaged include
<smartboyhw> Calligra, Rekonq, libktorrent (+ request KTorrent sync) Homerun, kde-gtk-config and request for skrooge sync
<smartboyhw> I've also helped testing for Kubuntu in Alpha 1 + 12.04.2
<smartboyhw> And as for the general Ubuntu contributions....
<smartboyhw> I'm an active member of the Ubuntu Community QA Team
<valorie> they are impressive!
<smartboyhw> I help to write testcases, and test ISO images
 * smartboyhw ranked third in testing 12.04.2 images BTW (really weird)
<smartboyhw> And also I am an contributor to Ubuntu Studio
<smartboyhw> QA also, and release matters
<smartboyhw> ..
 * smartboyhw is a Kubuntu Ninja BTQ
<smartboyhw> s/BTQ/BTW/ :P
<valorie> you are already an Ubuntu Member; why are you now applying for Kubuntu membership as well?
<Darkwing> dang it valorie that was my question :P:P
<smartboyhw> valorie, this is the most important question
<valorie> hehe
<smartboyhw> apachelogger once said that joining in ~kubuntu-packagers and have commit access to these branches should either be ~ubuntu-core-dev or ~kubuntu-members
<jussi> smartboyhw: how long have you been contributing to Kubuntu?
<smartboyhw> I do feel that I have the trust from community + enough learning of packaging to have commit access
<smartboyhw> jussi, 1 month or so (maybe more)
<smartboyhw> IDK
 * smartboyhw has forgotten
<valorie> do you intend to get involved with the upstream KDE community?
<smartboyhw> valorie, yes. Possibly with Calligra or Rekonq
<smartboyhw> I don't want to just help them with packaging
<smartboyhw> But also actual bug-fixing
<JontheEchidna> That's great
<smartboyhw> (upstream)
<valorie> a month or so seems very short to me, however you have a good record with Ubuntu already
<smartboyhw> Riddell already gave me a +1
<smartboyhw> :P
<Darkwing> Where do you see yourself within Kubuntu in a year?
<valorie> both those teams could use your enthusiasm for sure
<smartboyhw> Darkwing, if I can I would want to be ~kubuntu-dev
<valorie> are you planning to attend Akademy?
<valorie> registration has just opened
<smartboyhw> valorie, no (I've got school don't forget, and when it's Akademy time I'll be London for study tour)
<smartboyhw> Really sorry
<smartboyhw> Possibly I will want to meet Riddell or phillw in person:P (LOL)
<valorie> bummer
<Darkwing> smartboyhw: do you run Kubuntu at the moment?
<valorie> cool on the trip, bummer on missing us
<smartboyhw> Darkwing, no actually (since strangely my login screen breaks my graphics)
<smartboyhw> And I still got Ubuntu Studio to support:P
<smartboyhw> I want to get that fixed too
<smartboyhw> (but that will require some in-depth look into kernel modules + AMD drivers)
<Darkwing> smartboyhw: Yeah, it does on mine as well, that's why I'm running the LTS.
<smartboyhw> Darkwing, I don't run LTSes
<smartboyhw> I need to be in the development release at all times
<smartboyhw> for QA + packaging trial-installs-plus-runs
<Darkwing> So, beyond kubuntu-dev, what is the reason you are looking for kubuntu-membership?
<smartboyhw> Darkwing, I am really hoping to contribute to Kubuntu long-time
<Darkwing> Do you feel that you need to be a kubuntu member for that?
<smartboyhw> As you can see from my Planet Ubuntu posts, I am starting to get disappointed in Canonical's policies
<smartboyhw> Darkwing, not exactly. However I want to wear my ~kubuntu-members *badge or whatever* with pride
<smartboyhw> That I am indeed contributing to KDE and Kubuntu
<valorie> you might want to add your blog to the KDE planet as well
<smartboyhw> Nicely:)
<smartboyhw> valorie, which I did
<smartboyhw> LOL
<valorie> cool
<Darkwing> JontheEchidna, jussi, any other questions?
<jussi> hrm
<smartboyhw> Do ask:)
 * smartboyhw is not worried about questions at all
<jussi> Im good
<JontheEchidna> Same, you two asked all of mine :P
<smartboyhw> LOL
 * valorie shakes the pom poms
<JontheEchidna> smartboyhw: so you were hoping for shadeslayer and yofel to give you testimonials, correct?
<JontheEchidna> *give testimonials for you
<smartboyhw> JontheEchidna, yep since they are supposed to be here (according to doodle poll)
<smartboyhw> They did give them in my main Ubuntu membership application
<JontheEchidna> ah, good
<smartboyhw> Do you want links for that?
<Darkwing> please
<smartboyhw> Darkwing, JontheEchidna jussi http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/02/20/%23ubuntu-meeting.html (for main membership application)
<smartboyhw> and for Riddell's +1 http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/03/10/%23kubuntu-devel.html#t09:56
<yofel> he has indeed been a great help on the testing and packaging side and has been very active on the kubuntu side lately. So I'm all for this membership.
<smartboyhw> Actually that's apachelogger:P
<smartboyhw> Thanks yofel !
<valorie> if I had a vote, you would have it
<smartboyhw> valorie, thanks:)
<Darkwing> Okay, if there are no more questions... there will be a vote.
<Darkwing> #vote
<meetingology> Please vote on:
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<JontheEchidna> +1
<Darkwing> #voters JontheEchidna Darkwing jussi
<meetingology> Current voters: Darkwing JontheEchidna jussi
<Darkwing> sorry lol
<JontheEchidna> +1
<Darkwing> +1
<jussi> smartboyhw: I have concerns about the length of time you have contributed to kubuntu directly - I admire the enthusiasm, but I want to see "sustained" contributions to *kubuntu*, so for me this time, it is a +0
<jussi> +0
<JontheEchidna> Darkwing: don't be sorry, I couldn't even start the stupid bot :P
 * smartboyhw wonders if ubottu is still working
<Darkwing> #endvote
<meetingology> No vote in progress
<jussi> Darkwing: #endvote please
<jussi> haha
<smartboyhw> Stupid bot
<Darkwing> #vote smartboyhw for Kubuntu membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: smartboyhw for Kubuntu membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<Darkwing> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Darkwing
<jussi> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from jussi
<JontheEchidna> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from JontheEchidna
<smartboyhw> endvote?
<Darkwing> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: smartboyhw for Kubuntu membership
<meetingology> Votes for:2 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion carried
<smartboyhw> XD
<smartboyhw> YEAH!
<Darkwing> Welcome to Kubuntu membership smartboyhw
<jussi> you need to wait for riddell or apachelogger
<smartboyhw> Darkwing, thx
<smartboyhw> jussi, for what?
<jussi> as I understand it you need a majority
<JontheEchidna> Riddell gave his +1 earlier in #kubuntu-devel
<jussi> which in our council is 3
<jussi> oh
<jussi> ok
<jussi> congratulations then :=)
<valorie> congratulations, smartboyhw
<smartboyhw> jussi, Darkwing JontheEchidna yofel valorie THX
<Darkwing> Sorry, I didn't mention that. :)
<jussi> yeah, i was unaware
<valorie> I love my Kubuntu Membership
<Darkwing> #topic other business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | kubuntu meeting Meeting | Current topic:  other business
<valorie> :-)
<Darkwing> Is there any other business that needs to be discussed?
<valorie> is the mumble meeting still happening?
<JontheEchidna> well, we do need a meeting to discuss the recent ... happenings in canonical land, but I think we'd want a more full attendence roster
<smartboyhw> Yep
 * yofel has to run, bye
<Darkwing> JontheEchidna: I agree, we need to setup soemthing that all the council will be able to attend for that.
<JontheEchidna> did the mumble meeting get a set date/time?
<Darkwing> thanks to yofel we do have a mumble server running.
<valorie> happenings are still happening, so there isn't a whole lot to discuss yet, I think
<smartboyhw> I don't even know how to play with mumble:P
<Darkwing> and no, I have not seen that email.
<smartboyhw> Can someone give me yofel's server ip?
<Darkwing> Actually, I have to set it up.
<valorie> mumble is installed on my machine, but I haven't had time to test it yet
<yofel> yofel-vz.dyndns.org
<smartboyhw> yofel, thx
<valorie> thanks, yofel
<Darkwing> port: 64738
<Darkwing> I'll be sending out polls for a mumble meeting.
<JontheEchidna> great
<Darkwing> Is there anything else?
<Darkwing> Going once?
<Darkwing> Going Twice?
<JontheEchidna> none here
<Darkwing> Thank you all for coming out.
<Darkwing> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Sun Mar 10 15:35:17 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-03-10-15.07.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-03-10-15.07.html
<valorie> thanks for chairing, Darkwing
<Darkwing> Anytime.
<JontheEchidna> :)
<valorie> nice to see you around again
<Darkwing> Oh yeah... I have to send my reelection email out.
 * JontheEchidna wanders off to make morning coffee
<Darkwing> It's good to be stable enough to be back.
<valorie> {{{{{{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}}} to everybody
 * smartboyhw hugs everybody
<smartboyhw> Darkwing, LOL:P
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-03-03
<mdeslaur> \o
<jjohansen> o/
<jdstrand> hi!
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Mar  3 16:39:58 2014 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Review of any previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review of any previous action items
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson send oxide and qtwebkit benchmark results to mailing list
<chrisccoulson> heh, sorry, i still haven't done that yet. i'll do it later :)
<jdstrand> ok thanks
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I'm on triage
<jdstrand> I have some updates to get to
<jdstrand> I'd like to do some work on click-apparmor to support the newer frameworks (for the upcoming app showdown)
<jdstrand> I need to look over before and after apparmor denials of running all the apps under qt5.0 and qt5.2 and investigate any new denials in 5.2 in preparation for its landing
<mdeslaur> oh hrm, were there a lot of them?
<jdstrand> (I've been given the denials, just need to look at the reports, etc)
<jdstrand> I'm not sure
<jdstrand> there were a lot of denials in both that I was a little surprised about
<jdstrand> so, need to take a look
<mdeslaur> huh
<jdstrand> apparently the denials are harmless enough, cause there aren't bugs open for what I saw
<mdeslaur> ah, good
<jdstrand> like, permy and network access. I think that might be the qt xml trying to do a name lookup or something (maybe for a dtd?) even though it is given a local url
<jdstrand> ie file://
<mdeslaur> interesting
<jdstrand> and I have slightly more inbox catchup to do-- I did pretty well last week, but have a couple things left
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm on community this week
<mdeslaur> I'm currently testing python and php5 updates which I'll be releasing today
<mdeslaur> there's a new gnutls issue out that I need to prepare updates for
<mdeslaur> and the list is growing, so I have to catch up
<mdeslaur> friday I'm on patch piloting
<mdeslaur> that's it from me
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm focused on apparmor stuff again this week.
<sbeattie> I helped sarnold dig out some of the issues with the 2.9 snapshot we're trying to land, I think the only thing really remaining is the inability of the new utils to parse dbus rules.
<tyhicks> what is the plan there?
<sbeattie> I'll also be focusing on helping jj test the ipc stuff.
<tyhicks> ignore the rules (like the old tools) or actually parse them?
<sbeattie> tyhicks: I'm trying to come up with a quickish patch to make parse them enough to not drop them.
<tyhicks> nice
<sbeattie> s/make/
<sbeattie> anyway, that's the big stuff for me this week.
<sbeattie> tyhicks: you're up
<tyhicks> the kernel keyring work took up a little more of my time last week than expected (but I did get the investigation done and a patch sent out)
<tyhicks> so now I'm addressing the final few comments from the dbus-daemon mediation patches review
<tyhicks> after I get that done and resubmitted, I'll switch to kdbus for a day or two
<tyhicks> and then hopefully I have some time to help out sbeattie and sarnold shake out issues with the pending upload
<tyhicks> but it sounds like they may get it done before I can help
<tyhicks> :/
<tyhicks> I feel bad for leaving some landmines laying around that they've had to deal with
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jdstrand> tyhicks: that keyring patch was for pam?
<tyhicks> jdstrand: it was
 * jdstrand nods
<tyhicks> jdstrand: pam_keyinit
<tyhicks> jdstrand: we'
<tyhicks> jdstrand: we've started to partially use it
<jdstrand> neat
<tyhicks> it is neat
<tyhicks> but it breaks some of the ecryptfs-utils tools
<tyhicks> dhowells has already responded to my patch and I'm working on convincing him of my approach to fix it
 * jjohansen is working on apparmor again this week. primarily ipc kernel issues, and then maybe cross namespace stacking
 * tyhicks is done
<jjohansen> heh, sorry tyhicks /me too the "it is neat" as done
<tyhicks> np :)
<jdstrand> tyhicks: not to worry-- assuming a reactive update or two isn't required first, I know that jjohansen and sbeattie could use some help for the 14.04 deliverables and bug fixes (we always have stuff to do ;)
<jjohansen> oh I suppose I am working with sbeattie on testing the ipc work as well
<jjohansen> yeah jdstrand is right, tyhicks you weren't planning on sleeping this week where you?
<jjohansen> ;)
<tyhicks> heh - it is cold here so long nights indoors won't be too bad
<jjohansen> hehe
<jjohansen> I think that is it for me, sarnold you're up
<jdstrand> it is cold here
<jdstrand> (brrr)
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: I blame you and your Canadian air
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: I blame you for global warming :)
<sarnold> I'm on apparmor packaging again, it feels closer now than before, thanks to some great debugging by jjohansen and sbeattie, I -think- the only remaining problems with the qrt tests are because the new python-based tools fail on the first mention of dbus
 * jdstrand likes being warm
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: it'll be nice and warm here once texas is covered in molten lava :)
<sarnold> while this means e.g. aa-disable foo fails :( I still like these packages more than the old perl-based tools
<sarnold> I've also got several MIRs still outstanding: juju-core, schroot, strongswan, glusterfs, thermald
<jdstrand> sarnold: where 'foo' is not the path to the file?
<jdstrand> ie aa-disable foo vs aa-disable /etc/apparmor.d/foo
<jdstrand> I'm sorry, I haven't followed the aa-disable issue closely
<sarnold> the nginx mir made some pretty good leaps forward last week, it's now blocked solely on a nginx module that requires lua 5.1 and would require significant work to work with lua 5.2. I hope someone else will sort that one out, no security impact there anyway..
<sbeattie> jdstrand: no difference, aa-disable (py version) was reading/parsing all the profiles before doing anything.
<sarnold> jdstrand: sorry, 'foo' was just a placeholder, it'll fail completely regardless of how you use it
<sbeattie> sarnold, jdstrand: I committed the fix to aa-disable upstream to not do that.
<sarnold> sbeattie: yay! thanks :)
<sbeattie> (but the rest of the tools still do :( )
<jdstrand> sbeattie: ah, so it ended up being a dbus parsing casualty as a result?
<sbeattie> jdstrand: yes
<jdstrand> I see
<sarnold> oh yes, I've also got an internally-requested php module audit to finish. (quite the jarring experience after the nginx code..)
<sarnold> anyway I think that's me done, chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> i'm finishing work on our user-agent override mechanism this week, which is quite a big chunk of work
<jdstrand> nice!
<chrisccoulson> i also reimplemented the script messaging API on the renderer side last week (the original implementation was rushed to get unit tests working), which fixes some bugs: https://code.launchpad.net/~chrisccoulson/oxide/user-scripts-and-messaging-rework
<chrisccoulson> i guess this week will be more of the same :)
<chrisccoulson> i think that's me done
<mdeslaur> cool
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/tinc.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/argyll.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libipc-pubsub-perl.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/lcgdm.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/9base.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, tyhicks, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Mar  3 17:14:51 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-03-03-16.39.moin.txt
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
<sbeattie> jdstrand: woot, thanks!
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
<sarnold> thanks jdstrand
 * kees waves "hi"
<kees> mdeslaur, stgraber: it's just the 3 of us so far! :)
<mdeslaur> \o
 * stgraber waves
<kees> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Mar  3 21:01:32 2014 UTC.  The chair is kees. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<kees> so, uhm, just the 3 of us... do we want to go through the agenda anyway? Looks like it hasn't been updated.
<mdeslaur> not sure we really have anything to discuss
<kees> yeah, me either.
<kees> mysql MRE, maybe?
<stgraber> we probably ought to vote on the new LTS flavours though if we don't have quorum, that's not terribly useful
<stgraber> and I'd be happy to do it on the list
<kees> yeah, that should be on list.
<mdeslaur> looks like mysql MRE had enough votes on the list to approve it
<kees> yeah, just noticed that now.
<kees> shortest meeting evar!
<mdeslaur> hehe
<stgraber> yeah, we just need a single +1 for a MRE, so someone just needs to put it on the wiki (either as full MRE or just provisional, whatever seems approperiate)
<kees> no community bugs open.
<mdeslaur> FYI, I fully agree with the mysql MRE
<kees> yeah, me too.
<kees> ok. mdeslaur I think you're next to chair?
<mdeslaur> fine with me
<kees> excellent. thanks you guys. :)
<kees> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Mar  3 21:05:34 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-03-03-21.01.moin.txt
<stgraber> thanks!
<stgraber> short and sweet!
<mdeslaur> oh, mysql is already in the wiki
<mdeslaur> thanks stgraber, kees!
<kees> mdeslaur: yeah, pitti said he was going to add it in his email
<stgraber> when I have a minute, I'll look at those flavour e-mails and start voting, hopefully the rest will follow and we can get that over with soon enough
<mdeslaur> stgraber: cool
<stgraber> (I wanted to do it before the meeting, but obviously $annoying_bug_of_the_day prevented me from doing it ;))
<sabdfl> hi all
<stgraber> hey sabdfl
<mdeslaur> hi sabdfl
<kees> hi sabdfl
<sabdfl> thought i'd stop by in case there was any perspective i could provide on init
<sabdfl> don't let me interrupt :)
<kees> sabdfl: meeting is already over -- nothing really to discuss, and only (at the time) 3 of us too.
<sabdfl> ah, ok
<sabdfl> you guys are super-efficient, thank you!
<kees> heh.
<sabdfl> sorry that init has reared its head again in debian
<sabdfl> while i completely understand the concerns, and i think it's naive of russ to wish for "independent implementations of interfaces" when the init they've adopted takes, um, a "whatever" approach to interfaces, it's simply too little too late now
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-03-04
<zul> hi
<serue> \\o
<beisner> hello
<smb> o/
<zul> everyone here for the server team meeting?
 * serue is an octopus
<lutostag> \o
<coreycb> o/
<zul> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Mar  4 16:02:24 2014 UTC.  The chair is zul. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<zul> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<jamespage> o/
<arosales> o/
<zul> it says gaughen to raise sessions of vuds
<zul> since vuds is next week
<zul> i guess that isnt done yet since  I havent seen it, so im going to punt it til the next meeting
<zul> #topic T Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: T Development
<zul> jamespage:  do you want to take this?
<jamespage> zul, uh - OK
<jamespage> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseSchedule
<jamespage> so
<jamespage> server is particpating in final beta on the 27th
<jamespage> so primary focus should be on bug fixing
<jamespage> we have lots - go have a dig :-)
<jamespage> what FFe's have we got inflight?
<jamespage> I'm aware of incomplete ones for juju-core (1.18) and ceph firefly release
<jamespage> smoser, maas?
<jamespage> I was also asked to consider whether mongodb 2.6.0 might make release but its very tight and not top of my list
<zul> openstack ones have to be filed, libvirt-1.2.2 have to been filed
<jamespage> zul, for a point release update?
<zul> jamespage:  yes
<jamespage> zul, OK _ file the OpenStack ones - but that should be a formality in my opinion
<jamespage> we're not going to not ship icehouse
<zul> jamespage:  agreeed
<zul> libvirt as well
<serue> qemu 2.0 granted...
<jamespage> can folks ensure that a trusty task is raised - that way they should appear on the release bugs reports
<jamespage> serue, w00t!
<jamespage> #subtopic Release Bugs
<jamespage> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-t-tracking-bug-tasks.html#server
<zul> i thought the django-compressor stuff was done
<zul> anything else?
<jamespage> zul: bug 1259166
<ubottu> bug 1259166 in horizon (Ubuntu Trusty) "Fix lintian error" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1259166
<zul> yeah i know :(
<zul> ill see if i can get it fixed today
<jamespage> re django compressor
<jamespage> bug 1252627
<ubottu> bug 1252627 in python-django-compressor (Ubuntu Trusty) "[MIR] build dependencies for python-django-compressor" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1252627
<jamespage> I believe that still needs the bs4 transition doing
<zul> im pretty sure i did that...ill double check
<jamespage> zul, ta
<jamespage> bug 1278897 still needs me to fix
<ubottu> bug 1278897 in dovecot (Ubuntu Trusty) "dovecot warns about moved ssl certs on upgrade" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1278897
<jamespage> I'll do that this week
<zul> ill take a look at swift
<jamespage> zul, only the start/stop highlevel upstart config todo there
<jamespage> not worried about the rest
<zul> ok
<jamespage> #subtopic Blueprints
<zul> anything else
<jamespage> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-t/group/topic-t-servercloud-overview.html
<jamespage> just going to throw it out - anything got anything they want to raise about BP's?
<jamespage> I don't
<jamespage> we're backloaded on charms
<jamespage> and I think everything else is actually OK despite the red
<jamespage> zul, ok all yours
<zul> okies
<zul> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<zul> hi caribou around?
<zul> if not
<zul> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
<zul> psivaa:  do you have anything?
<psivaa> zul: nothing from us
<zul> any questions from psivaa?
<psivaa> zul: nope
<zul> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
<smb> I wasn't quick enough in the previous sections but I am trying to get a FFE done for Xen-4.4. Currently working to get a rc6 based packaging done for early testing. Upstream release should be relatively soon (though they said that with rc5).
<zul> hi smb i know you are here
<zul> smb: cool!
<sforshee> no updates here
<smb> Otherwise nested vmx looks to be working again for T.
<smb> qemu that is
<zul> yay!
<zul> any questions for sforshee or smb?
<zul> if not
<zul> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<zul> hi rbasak
<zul> any updates?
<zul> or is he at linaro connect?
<zul> i guess he is not here either
<zul> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<zul> so vuds is next week
<zul> i think we are going to have a couple of topics that we are gonig to discuss, the schedule should out soon
<zul> any other events?
<zul> so since everyone is asleep
<zul> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion
<jamespage> zul, yes - indeed
<zul> anythin else to discuss
<zul> i think we should skip next week's meeting since vuds is happening
<zul> anyone have a problem with that?
<serue> nope
<zul> i guess not...
<zul> see you in two weeks
<zul> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Mar  4 16:23:16 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-03-04-16.02.moin.txt
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Mar  4 17:00:28 2014 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Trusty
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<cking> o/
<ppisati> o/
<henrix> o/
<rtg> o/
<kamal> o/
<bjf> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> nothing new to report this week
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> sorry
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/~canonical-kernel-distro-team/+upcomingwork
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-t/canonical-kernel-distro-team.html
<ogasawara> || apw       || core-1311-kernel                || 4 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||           || core-1311-cross-compilation     || 2 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||           || core-1311-hwe-plans             || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || ogasawara || core-1311-kernel                || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || smb       || servercloud-1311-openstack-virt || 4 work items ||
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Trusty Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Trusty Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> The 3.13.0-15.35 Trusty kernel is available in the archive.  This is
<ogasawara> bssed on the v3.13.5 upstream stable update.  Our unstable branch has
<ogasawara> also been rebased to track the latest v3.14-rc5 release.
<ogasawara> -----
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseSchedule
<ogasawara> Thurs Mar 27 - Final Beta (~3 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Apr 03 - Kernel Freeze (~4 weeks away)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's
<jsalisbury> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Saucy/Raring/Quantal/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Saucy/Raring/Quantal/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix)
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until today (Nov. 26):
<bjf>   *   Lucid - Testing
<bjf>   * Precise - Testing
<bjf>   * Quantal - Testing
<bjf>   *   Saucy - Testing
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Mar  4 17:06:02 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-03-04-17.00.moin.txt
<cking> thanks jsalisbury
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-03-06
 * slangasek waves
<jodh> o/
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Mar  6 16:06:00 2014 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek cjwatson xnox stokachu)
<slangasek> bdmurray slangasek barry doko stokachu cjwatson xnox stgraber jodh
<doko> slangasek, should you inject infinity into this shuffle?
<slangasek> oh oops
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek cjwatson xnox stokachu infinity)
<slangasek> jodh barry slangasek doko bdmurray infinity stokachu cjwatson xnox stgraber
<xnox> oh, meeting
<slangasek> and... I still have stokachu in there, so s/stokachu/caribou/, not that he's here :)
<slangasek> yes, quickly quickly
<jodh> * foundations-1305-upstart-work-items:
<jodh>   - async tests have uncovered a race that needs to be resolved by
<jodh>     reworking the state machine. Plan is to have a mini-sprint with
<jodh>     xnox+cjwatson to work on this next week.
<jodh> * upstart:
<jodh>   - fixed bug 1288243.
<ubottu> bug 1288243 in upstart "reexec unit test consistently fails: single job producing output across a re-exec" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1288243
<jodh> * other:
<jodh>   - Fixed pbuilder+sbuild dep8 tests running in an lxc container (ppc64el+armhf).
<jodh>   - Thanks to xnox for the Upstart MP backlog purge!
<jodh> J
<barry> LP: #1284469 / python issue #19021 - trying to get a python 3.4 rc2 package with the Popen.__del__ fix.  currently have some autopkgtest failures so the cherry pick list is probably not complete.  alternatively: convince 3.4 RM to cherry pick the relevant changes into 3.4rc3.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1284469 in python3.4 (Ubuntu) "Exception on installing/reconfiguring python3" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1284469
<barry> system-image: long q/a meeting about how to do automated tests.  wiki test plan updated.  s-i 2.2 ready for landing silo (along with a new u-d-m).  fixes: LP: #1277589, LP: #1287287, LP: #1250817, LP: #1286542, LP: #1279532, LP: #1287919.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1277589 in Ubuntu system image "Better protection against concurrent access" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1277589
<barry> this week: hopefully returning to autopilot py3 and general py3.4 work.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1287287 in Ubuntu system image "Remove atomic rename workaround in client" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1287287
<barry> done
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1250817 in system-image (Ubuntu) "Exceptions in the state machine (D-Bus) should result in UpdateAvailableStatus with an error_reason" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1250817
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1286542 in Ubuntu system image "keyring DuplicateDestinationError when updating from custom s-i server" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1286542
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1279532 in Ubuntu system image "Log dir path should be pass to udm to simplify debugging" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1279532
<barry> slangasek: you're up
<slangasek>  * buried in customer work all week
<slangasek>  * resumes coming in for the Java role; going to give some of these to doko for review, could use more volunteers to help pare these down
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek> doko:
<doko> - Linaro Connect
<doko> - fixing ftbfs
<doko> - toolchain updates required for AArch64 and powerpc64le
<doko> - +1 maintenance work
<doko> - will be offline for the next 12 days, so pestering people to keep up with things while I'm away
<doko> (done)
<bdmurray> bug triage of foundations bugs
<bdmurray> uploaded ubuntu-release-upgrader with armhf and ppc64el test failure fix
<bdmurray> research into software-properties test failures and gnupg debian bug 737128
<ubottu> Debian bug 737128 in gnupg "gpg exits with a fatal error about missing trustdb despite successfully having imported a key" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/737128
<bdmurray> reported gnupg bug regarding trustdb (issue 1622)
<bdmurray> testing of bug 1280782
<ubottu> bug 1280782 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "Unable to upgrade from 13.10 to 14.04 - tk8.5-lib fails to upgrade to libtk8.5" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1280782
<bdmurray> uploaded an attempt to fix bug 1280782 regarding tk8.5-lib
<bdmurray> tested bug 1280782 some more and uploaded tcltk-defaults to fix that upgrade issue
<bdmurray> commited a fix for ubuntu-release-upgrader bug 1160346 based on a patch from a community member
<ubottu> bug 1160346 in Release Upgrader "do-release-upgrade from Ubuntu 12.04 on Pentium-M fails, breaks system without any warning (This kernel does not support a non-PAE CPU)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1160346
<bdmurray> uploaded a fix for ubuntu-release-upgrader bug 1285545 based off jibel's patch
<ubottu> bug 1285545 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Trusty) "P->T server upgrade failure: ubuntu-release-upgrader fails with OSError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1285545
<bdmurray> fixed linux package hook bug when creating duplicate signatures
<bdmurray> merge of colin king's kernel oops branch fixing some null pointers and memalloc issues
<bdmurray> added a fix for kerneloops bug 1026300 with his changes
<ubottu> bug 1026300 in kerneloops (Ubuntu) "kerneloops crashed with SIGABRT in __assert_fail_base()" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1026300
<bdmurray> submitted RT regarding installing trusty gdb on the retracers
<bdmurray> backported trusty version of gdb to precise and tested it on the apport-retracers in canonistack (success)
<bdmurray> fixed an errors.ubuntu.com OOPS
<bdmurray> fixed an errors.ubuntu.com OOPS
<bdmurray> modified errors to sort OOPS on user page by date they occurred not alphabetically
<bdmurray> submitted RT to have errors updated
<bdmurray> fixed errors tool to find a bucket for an instance
<bdmurray> worked on modifications to apport to install specific package versions when retracing instead of using the latest
<bdmurray> testing / improving whoopsie intergration-tests so we can move to prodstack
<bdmurray> reported apport bug 1287460 regarding xdg-open and preferred browsers
<ubottu> bug 1287460 in apport (Ubuntu) "system crash reports not opened with my default browser" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1287460
<bdmurray> SRU team work and mentoring of arges
<bdmurray> âdone
<bdmurray> bluetooth magicpad testing (trying to capture kerneloops)
<slangasek> ah, we put infinity in the rotation, but he's probably asleep due to Macao :)
<slangasek> cjohnston:
<slangasek> er
<slangasek> cjwatson:
<cjwatson> Cherry-picked several easy fixes (mostly build/packaging, and bug 1285790) from my libclick work and landed them in click 0.4.16, by way of CI Train practice.
<ubottu> bug 1285790 in click (Ubuntu) "click crashed with BrokenPipeError in run(): [Errno 32] Broken pipe" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1285790
<cjwatson> Pushed libclick out for review.  Went through my own proofreading pass in parallel; found and fixed several bugs.
<cjwatson> Started work on converting some known click clients (upstart-app-launch, unity-scope-click, clickmanager-plugin) to libclick.  Some of this will need library equivalents of "click info" and "click list", so started on those too.
<cjwatson> Worked on a branch to expose supported frameworks in libclick.
<cjwatson> Landing libclick at the moment.  http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~click-hackers/click/trunk/files/head:/click/tests/ (esp. gimock.py and some test file such as test_hooks.py) if you're interested in the crazy scheme I was talking about last week.
<cjwatson> Fixed up python-tblib build problems (planning to use this for click later).
<cjwatson> Merged gnutls28 security fixes.
<cjwatson> Attempted to get ghc/arm64 building, prompted by a thread on ubuntu-devel-discuss; predictably failed.
<cjwatson> Rooted my phone and set it up to dual-boot Ubuntu, so that I have a test system that doesn't make me want to throw things.
<cjwatson> ..
<xnox> * python3:
<xnox>   - unity8, ubuntu-ui-toolkit, ofono, a few more clicks all landed.
<xnox>   - next up: land phablet-tools py2&3 support
<xnox>   - next up: continue testing/landing remaining clicks
<xnox> * touch-x86:
<xnox>   - worked on fixing up x86 cross toolchain, it still does not build
<xnox>   with ssp.
<xnox> * upstart/touch printing:
<xnox>   - fixed cups socket activation with upstart, it mostly was s/-F/-f/
<xnox>   in the cups upstart job + correct typos. (both -F/-f mean
<xnox>   foreground, both change fg variable 0 => 1/-1, most things test for
<xnox>   !fg, apart from one small portion which closes all passed FDs when
<ubottu> xnox: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<xnox>   running with -F instead of -f)
<xnox>   - reviewed a few upstart merge proposals. We should be good for a
<xnox>   bugfix heavy upstart release.
<xnox> * aa/+1:
<xnox>   - disentangled libav8 NBS by fixing a few packages and uploading
<xnox>   patches to port mplayer to libav9 from gentoo, thus there is little
<xnox>   removal damage - two small leave packages. (mplayer on the other
<xnox>   hand has a lot of reverse dependencies).
<xnox> ..
<doko> x86 cross toolchain?
<cjwatson> x86 bionic I guess?
<xnox> yes.
<doko> ahh, ok
<doko> based on which 4.x?
<cjwatson> cross for small values of cross
<xnox> doko: 4.7, but it compiles bionic libc, somehow with missing symbols required for a working ssp. thus nothing links.
<stgraber> LXC:
<stgraber>  - Fixed quite a few lxc-ls bugs (nested unpriv containers, stopped containers, dealing with invalid config, ...)
<stgraber>  - Fixed a small bug in the python3-lxc binding (missing exported function).
<stgraber>  - Fixed some more corner cases of lxc-download
<stgraber>  - Code reviews, testing and LXC on Android debugging
<stgraber>  - Preparing for LXC 1.0.1, scheduled for later today
<stgraber> CGManager support for logind:
<stgraber>  - Got a patch covering all code paths we care about, now I just need to make this actually work...
<stgraber>  - Landing for this will be blocked by the cgmanager MIR and by its own FFe
<stgraber> Networking:
<stgraber>  - Re-applied our ifenslave-2.6 delta to the new ifenslave source
<stgraber>  - Started going through some of the bug reports
<stgraber> System-image:
<stgraber>  - Reviewed and merge/rejected all pending MPs for system-image/server
<stgraber>  - Implemented code to rename channels and to create channel redirects (to transition users after a rename)
<stgraber>  - Tested the planned rename of all existing channels to ubuntu-touch/<channel name>
<stgraber> Other:
<stgraber>  - Did a click landing.
<stgraber> (DONE)
<slangasek> ok, any questions over status?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<bdmurray> could somebody look at bug 1288171?
<ubottu> bug 1288171 in python-apt (Ubuntu Trusty) "0.9.3 regression: Setting APT::Architecture now downloads wrong indexes" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1288171
<barry> i will take a look
<xnox> cjwatson: re:click landings what about lp:~xnox/click/chroot-sessions?
<cjwatson> queued :)
<barry> (it's already on my radar, i.e. browser tab)
<cjwatson> I haven't forgotten, just been head-down on libclick
<xnox> cjwatson: ack.
<cjwatson> nothing else from here
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Mar  6 16:32:39 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-03-06-16.06.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks, guys!
<barry> thanks!
<jodh> thanks!
<stgraber> thanks!
<czajkowski> aloha
<dholbach> hello
<YokoZar> morning
<czajkowski> anyone here from the technical board
<czajkowski> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Mar  6 17:02:29 2014 UTC.  The chair is czajkowski. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<dholbach> kees, mdeslaur, slangasek, stgraber: around?
<czajkowski> #topic catch up with the Tech Board.
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: catch up with the Tech Board.
<slangasek> dholbach: on the phone, but meaning to be around
<mdeslaur> sure, I'm here
<czajkowski> slangasek: mdeslaur howdy folks
<slangasek> heya
<mdeslaur> hi
<czajkowski> So how are things in the TB going ?
<czajkowski> care to give us an update ?
 * pitti waves hello
<slangasek> seems pretty low-key, really
<slangasek> not much demand for our services :-)
<pitti> I joined a few mins late, was there any question to the TB already?
<dholbach> for those of you who haven't been around in the last meeting - the CC catches up with governance and community teams as part of our meeting to see how things are going and to have a look at "operations" from a bit of a distance :)
<pitti> ah
<dholbach> pitti, just generally asking how things have been going :)
<pitti> well, we actually skipped the last few meetings due to not having any agenda
<pitti> on the meetings we did have, things are usually going well, the biggest recent hiccup was the late re-election of the TB itself
<pitti> but the day-to-day business is usually MREs and the like
<dholbach> so the new TB members have settled in well in their low-key new activity? :)
<czajkowski> pitti: yes we are sorry about that
<pitti> it's been a while since we have had a long and difficult technical discussion
<pleia2> o/
<pitti> czajkowski: no worries, nobody's fault in particular
<czajkowski> and hopefully we won't let it go that late again, the issues there was so many boards expiring at the same time, including the CC.
<czajkowski> is it worth having a meeting even when there is a blank agenda so people can catch up
<YokoZar> pitti: This is perhaps due to the LTS nature of Trusty making all reasonable decisions of this nature done well in advance, yes?
<czajkowski> does the community know they can reach out to the TB ?
<pitti> we used to have a lot more topics, but that was in the days when ubuntu was driven a lot more by UDSes and community
<dholbach> so when there's been long discussions and difficult decisions, how did you feel it generally went?
<pitti> and also because there is not that much major change going on in the non-phone-y bits
<pitti> YokoZar: yeah, that too
<pitti> dholbach: as they should go, really; I remember discussions like "should we install binary drivers by default", the OpenSSL vs. GPL debate, etc.
<czajkowski> pitti: so how do you feel it is driven now considering we have online uds
<pitti> we had a thorough discussion, voting, annoucned it to the devel crowd, and there generally hasn't been any negative feedback about those
<czajkowski> which is great to see
<dholbach> pitti, sure - I was just wondering if you were happy with that kind of discussions (so no major delays, everyone weighing in, decision making process is sufficiently refined, etc.)
<pitti> dholbach: oh yes; we could have had some speedier discussions for sure, but that's just the nature of timezones and (often) email-based communication, so not much to complain from my side
<czajkowski> nods
<dholbach> cool
<YokoZar> We put the TB on a 2 year cycle as well as the CC, do you guys feel it's correct for them to be replaced mid-way through an LTS cycle or should we move the elections to, say, just after the next LTS release rather than a few months before?
<dholbach> I guess that's similar for the CC as well :)
<pitti> czajkowski: as I said, the desktop/server bits don't have a lot of structural change these days, so nothing that bubbles up to the TB
<YokoZar> (we had a similar argument ~ the CC itself)
<pitti> what I am missing a bit is to discuss technical architecture of the phone
<czajkowski> pitti: ah interesting
<czajkowski> where does that currently take place?
<dholbach> pitti, do you have an example of what you feel would have warranted a discussion with the TB?
<pitti> there's the ubuntu-phone@ ML and such
<dholbach> (just to get an idea)
<pitti> and most of the design decisions etc. are just fine
<pitti> the main thing that comes to my mind is that in retrospect we should have discussed how to build the image-based upgrades without breaking /etc/ so hard
<czajkowski> pitti: so you're saying you agree with them, but you'd like to see the TB perhaps involved more in the discussion or be involved more ?
<pleia2> pitti: any thoughts from the tb regarding the init system stuff? (mark kind of announced it after debian made their decision "pending community discussion")
<pleia2> seems like something the tb should have weighed in on first
<pitti> pleia2: ah, I deliberately didn't bring that up -- but yes, that'll most certainly be a bigger discussion that comes in the next cycle :)
 * pleia2 troublemaker :)
<pitti> pleia2: well, we will
 * pleia2 nods
<dholbach> to be fair, Mark said "I will ask the Ubuntu tech board (many of whom do not work for Canonical) to review the position" :)
<pleia2> yeah
<pitti> czajkowski: yes, but this is the main issue I have really; and it's always easy to say in hindsight "we should have discussed that more", but not that easy to plan in advance
<dholbach> but yeah :)
<pitti> czajkowski: so I don't want to stress that too much really; but I think we need a version 2 of that, and thus maybe the TB is a good forum to discuss that new design
<pitti> but yeah, in general I think it's working ok
<czajkowski> pitti: I agree
<czajkowski> so perhaps this is something we can raise and see if we can drive some discussion over to yo folks to get your experience in
<dholbach> how much of the discussion happens on the mailing list and how much in meetings? do non-TB members weigh in as well?
<czajkowski> and ask dholbach pointed out sabdfl did  say he would ask the TB
<pitti> pleia2: I'm sure cjwatson and slangasek have a super-huge desire to discuss upstart vs. systemd soon :-) (it's not like they wasted many months of their lifetime thinking about it already..)
<mdeslaur> hehe
<pleia2> pitti: yeah, I followed the debian discussions
<pitti> dholbach: historically, most in meetings due to the synchronous nature
<pitti> dholbach: these days, small things like MRE requests or the LTS lifetimes are happening mostly over email as that's more practical
<pitti> dholbach: and yes, we have non-TB members posting to the list
<dholbach> yeah, that makes perfect sense
<cjwatson> pitti: it's on the vUDS schedule I believe
<pitti> cjwatson: ah, "fun" :)
<pleia2> cjwatson: ah, great
<sabdfl> hi all, sorry to be late
<dholbach> so it sounds like the TB processes are well-oiled machinery... is there anything which has been on your collective minds to be changed at some stage? or things which have repeatedly been put on the backburner?
 * pitti scratches head, nothing comes to my mind from the last 2 years really
<dholbach> even better :)
<YokoZar> I'll reraise my question from earlier, as I believe it got skipped: We put the TB on a 2 year cycle as well as the CC, do you guys feel it's correct for them to be replaced mid-way through an LTS cycle or should we move the elections to, say, just after the next LTS release rather than a few months before?
<pitti> I think the OpenSSL vs. GPL debate came up several times
<pleia2> oh, so the CC kept having meetings that had no agenda for a while, which is when we started doing these check-ins, I wonder if something similar might be useful for TB and dev teams?
<slangasek> YokoZar: I have no strong opinion on this... more important is to not leave a gap, as we did last fall
<pitti> YokoZar: ah, I didn't think that was aimed at TB; as the elections were supposed to happen much much earlier, it would have even been during saucy I believe
<YokoZar> Right around saucy release
<YokoZar> was original schedule I think
<pleia2> yeah
<pitti> YokoZar: I actually think it's quite a good time, as traditionally during the LTS cycles there's not that much to decide
<YokoZar> pitti: hypothetically, though, if we replace the entire board it might make a bunch of new decisions
<czajkowski> pitti: thanks for the udpate this has been great to her and nice to see a healthy TB
<czajkowski> pleia2: indeed and I wondered if doing somehting similar for the TB would be useful for them to get to have more discussion here
<czajkowski> YokoZar: same could be said for any board at any given time tbh
<pitti> YokoZar: yes, but that could happen at any point?
<YokoZar> czajkowski: pitti: for sure, but would it be "less bad" after an LTS rather than before?
<pitti> so yes, if we elect a board that makes silly decisions, something went wrong before that
<pitti> YokoZar: yes, perhaps
<dholbach> did anyone see pleia2's question? I personally think it might be worth trying
<pitti> YokoZar: but then a new board would actually be thrown into a time when there's potentially many discussions to make, which might be more overwhelming for new members?
<czajkowski> pitti: mdeslaur slangasek how about whe you've  a blank agenda, still having a meeting
<czajkowski> so people can see a discussion and join
<czajkowski> we've started doing this and it's been very useful
<mdeslaur> that's what we've done so far
<YokoZar> Not sure how frequent it is for "lay folk" to pop into TB meetings and raise an issue, but it does happen with CC meetings from time to time
<czajkowski> or you could arrange a catch up wth groups the tb has an interst in
<pitti> we usually do
<pitti> wait a bit
<pitti> then say "nothing to discuss" and end it again
<pitti> YokoZar: it does happen quite often; in fact that's the norm, as these days the TB rarely raises issues by themselves
<pitti> i. e. someone adds an agenda item and then usually appears in the meeting
<dholbach> great - as others have said... I'm quite happy with how the TB is working - I'm done with questions :)
<dholbach> keep up the good work everyone! :)
<YokoZar> pitti: so perhaps around a time when it's too late to reasonably change things in the LTS cycle, but before hecticness of post-release.  Like around the next UDS we're having.
<pleia2> thanks pitti :)
<YokoZar> What if elections were considerably before terms starting?
<pitti> YokoZar: yeah, sounds good
<YokoZar> Like we vote around now, and incoming members start their term after LTS release
<pitti> YokoZar: I don't like that very much, I must say; I think it's good for the old board to have a last meeting after the election to hand over, but not much more
<pitti> but I don't have a strong opinion on that
<YokoZar> Relatedly, I am encouraged by the lack of strong opinions regarding our election rules, it means our politics aren't particularly "politics" ;)
<czajkowski> any other questions folks before we wrap up
 * sabdfl is still reading the scrollback
<pitti> YokoZar: or that things are mostly going well and all that's left to do is finetuning :)
<czajkowski> YokoZar: you just like running polls! admit it :P
<YokoZar> This is not an "admission" any more than one confesses to liking the sunrise
<pleia2> hehe
<sabdfl> regarding init
<sabdfl> if the TB has a strong opinion different to the broad roadmap of "adopting systemd on an appropriate schedule" then i'm very open to hearing it
<pitti> sabdfl: probably the wrong place here, but FWIW, I agree to you
<pitti> sabdfl: seeing how much recent action there is in Debian towards adding native systemd packagse to stuff, I think in a year or so we'll have this robust enough
<pitti> sabdfl: with RHEL7 moving to systemd the server world ought to catch up quickly
<sabdfl> my commentary was not to subvert the TB, but to express that there is no ideological attachment to code that 'belongs' to Canonical
<pitti> the desktop world pretty much worked two years ago already, but our concern was the server back then
<sabdfl> we'll move where works best, and i trust the TB to map that out
<pitti> so for me it's not a question of "if", but "when/how"
<YokoZar> So, not understanding much of ubuntu-phone, how specific are the phone-related technical decisions that we can expect in the future?
<pitti> as long-term it seems much better to follow Debian than eternally diverging
<pitti> YokoZar: they are actually meant to become less and less phone specific over time
<pitti> YokoZar: "convergence"
<slangasek> pitti: I don't believe that RHEL7 is doing anything that we'll significantly be able to leverage; too much of this is integration work which doesn't translate
<slangasek> but I'm not sure the CC meeting is the place to have this discussion :)
<pitti> YokoZar: i. e. the phone is by and large a playground (excuse the wording, sabdfl) for trying out new technology like upgrades or display server
<pitti> without the need for backwards compat
<YokoZar> Yes, I imagined that was the eventual goal of any reasonable implementation.
<YokoZar> I would hope phone would soon be "absorbed" into the rest of Ubuntu governance smoothly
<pitti> YokoZar: yes, AFAIUI that's the plan
<sabdfl> this was a particularly difficult thing to watch unfold, since in a sense we were never consulted on an issue with major consequences for us, and we're a member of the family
<sabdfl> but then, some would argue we had great representation at the table, only wearing different hats
<sabdfl> nothing more from me, thanks TB for checking in
<pitti> the phone has laid a lot of new approaches to both technology (like Mir) and methods (like CI)
<YokoZar> And, say, phone community == ubuntu community and phone tech decisions == ubuntu tech decisions with the same relevant governance
<pitti> and they are certainly meant to be used on desktop in the future as well
<pitti> in practice they are still quite separated these days, but I think that's mostly due to the LTS
<pitti> e. g. we can't/shouldn't land things like Mir/Unity 8 now
<pitti> and likewise can't turn our upgrade mechanics upside down now
<czajkowski> pitti: I like those honest decisisons where we admit things aren't ready even when we wish they were
<YokoZar> Do you think the archive itself might continue some of this delta?  I vaguely worry about a future where we have, say, the arm arch for desktop packages have a lot of phone-specific deltas with a separate decision tree from the rest of the distro
<czajkowski> any other comments folks before we wrap it up
<mdeslaur> there is no archive delta for the phone at the moment
<dholbach> YokoZar, that sounds like a summary for the work leading up to the next LTS - bringing unity8 to the desktop and making the convergence happen :)
<mdeslaur> it's just using a different version of unity
<pitti> YokoZar: yes, it's less along the lines of architecture and more of package selection
<pitti> unity8-desktop-session-{mir,x11} in trusty :)
<pitti> I expect that to become the default soon
<pitti> i. e. convergence to make a leap in 14.10
<YokoZar> mdeslaur: Right, and perhaps if we do convergence especially "wrong" in the future we might have different versions of a lot of things on phone vs desktop
<pitti> sabdfl: btw, any chance we can get the u name before the release? it's needed in a couple of places, and last time we had to do a number of SRUs due to that
<YokoZar> ugh
<YokoZar> I'll follow up with him (he left)
<YokoZar> Though
<YokoZar> I have hounded him with that question before
<pitti> ah
<YokoZar> I suspect hearing it from the TB as well might help
<czajkowski> ok thanks folks
<dholbach> thanks a lot everyone!
<mdeslaur> thanks!
<pitti> thanks everyone!
<YokoZar> Mark WILL delay the full name as long as possible for marketing/other purposes though
<YokoZar> Thank you folks
<dholbach> Do we have any other business?
<czajkowski> #action YokoZar Mail Mark re  U name for the TB to use for opening up next release
<meetingology> ACTION: YokoZar Mail Mark re  U name for the TB to use for opening up next release
<czajkowski> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Mar  6 17:44:44 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-03-06-17.02.moin.txt
<dholbach> thanks czajkowski
<slangasek> thanks :)
<roadmr> juuust waiting for the precise package to actually be published
<spineau1> no meeting today? :-(
<spineau> hggdh: hello, no meeting today?
<spineau> PabloRubianes: hello, no membership meeting today?
<PabloRubianes> spineau, I don't see other members from the board
<PabloRubianes> :S
<PabloRubianes> checking
<cjohnston> !rmb
<ubottu> cjohnston, cyphermox, Destine, ejat,  hggdh, IdleOne, iulian, micahg,  Pendulum, PabloRubienes, freeflying, jared, s-fox, amachu, and chilicuil. Meeting time.
<PabloRubianes> cjohnston, there's no quorum :S
<cjohnston> nope
<roadmr> :(
 * spineau will go to bed a bit sad
 * toddy gives spineau a cookie
<hggdh> o/
<hggdh> sorry, on a meeting up to now
<pleia2> I can pitch in if you need a 4th
<IdleOne> I'm also here
<IdleOne> that makes 5
<pleia2> oh good, no need for me :)
<spineau> and I'm still here :)
<hggdh> :-)
<IdleOne> someone sit on the chair and get this started
<roadmr> \o/
<hggdh> ok
<spineau> hey hggdh
<hggdh> #startmeeting Ubuntu membership Board
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Mar  6 22:21:24 2014 UTC.  The chair is hggdh. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu membership Board Meeting | Current topic:
<hggdh> spineau: long time :-)
<spineau> hggdh: indeed, 2010?
<hggdh> OK. We are now on the meeting. We will go by the order in the wiki.
<hggdh> the first one is ...
<hggdh> rohsigma. Is he online?
<hggdh> actually, rhosigma
<hggdh> no...
<hggdh> #topic -- spineau for Ubuntu Member
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu membership Board Meeting | Current topic: -- spineau for Ubuntu Member
<hggdh> spineau: please go ahead and introduce yourself
<spineau> ok
<spineau> Hello, I'm Sylvain Pineau (Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SylvainPineau, LP: https://launchpad.net/~sylvain-pineau)
<spineau> I live in France and I'm working for the Hardware Certification Team at Canonical
<spineau> My main focus is QA automation for Ubuntu, I'm one of the core developper of Checkbox, the system testing application that we have on the CD since 2008.
<spineau> I led a vUDS session last November to share the Checkbox roadmap for Trusty.
<spineau> I'm also an upstream maintainer of several Checkbox dependencies in Debian
<spineau> I contribute to kernel SRU testing and made various contributions to other test frameworks used by the community.
<hggdh> I see you have some testimonials :-)
<spineau> hggdh: indeed, and roadmr accepted to be online with uq
<spineau> us
 * roadmr waves - here to support spineau
<hggdh> roadmr: hi, I see you :-)
<hggdh> I have no questions for you -- I know your work...
<spineau> I didn't mention UEC ;-)
<IdleOne> Go ahead and mention it a little
<hggdh> #voters IdleOne hggdh cjohnston PabloRubianes
<meetingology> Current voters: IdleOne PabloRubianes cjohnston hggdh
<spineau> UEC was Ubuntu Enterprise Cloud, I wrote some tests for it
<hggdh> yeah. UEC was fun regarding tests...
<spineau> it was using eucalyptus before we decided to use openstack
<cjohnston> spineau: do you do anything with a LoCo team or anything else? All I see on your wiki appears to be related to what you do for your job
<spineau> cjohnston: I'm not involved with a French loco team, I'm too far from Paris TBH
<spineau> cjohnston: I attended to some Perl Mongers meetings but that's  unrelated to ubuntu
<spineau> Usually my main way to contribute is via triaging or via IRC
<IdleOne> How do you contribute via IRC specifically?
<spineau> IdleOne: answering/asking questions
<spineau> IdleOne: we created #checkbox to help people who wants to start using the checkbox toolset
<spineau> on freenode
<hggdh> spineau: anything more to add on community involvement?
<hggdh> otherwise, time to vote
<hggdh> #vote on spineau for Ubuntu member
<meetingology> Please vote on: on spineau for Ubuntu member
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<spineau> hggdh: I provided QA support to other test frameworks over the past years
<IdleOne> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from IdleOne
<spineau> hggdh: outside of myu role at canonical
<PabloRubianes> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from PabloRubianes
<cjohnston> +0 I'd like to see my community involvement
<meetingology> +0 I'd like to see my community involvement received from cjohnston
<IdleOne> s/my/more/
<hggdh> +1 -- I *know* you, so the plus one. But we need to see more community involvement
<meetingology> +1 -- I *know* you, so the plus one. But we need to see more community involvement received from hggdh
<hggdh> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: on spineau for Ubuntu member
<meetingology> Votes for:1 Votes against:0 Abstentions:3
<meetingology> Motion carried
<cjohnston> IdleOne: ya.. that too
<hggdh> spineau: unfortunately, I think the lack of visible community involvement was it.
<hggdh> spineau: may I suggest you to beef up the wiki with more community work, and then reapply?
<spineau> hggdh: I will, thank you
<IdleOne> spineau: thank you. I hope to see you back in a few months
<hggdh> spineau: please do no give up. I would be proud to have you as a member.
<hggdh> so. Keeping on
<spineau> ok, again thank you for your time
<hggdh> since rhosigma is not online, I think this is it for this meeting.
<hggdh> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Mar  6 22:42:23 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-03-06-22.21.moin.txt
<cjohnston> Thanks spineau and hggdh
<IdleOne> pleia2: you still there?
<pleia2> mhmm
<IdleOne> did you receive that invite to the rmb channel?
<pleia2> yes, but it got lost in my status window that I never look at :)
<IdleOne> lol, look at it please. we need some clarification
<IdleOne> AlanBell: Does meetingology have a #command that allows the chair to set a required positive total for a motion to be considered as carried?
<IdleOne> oh it does
<IdleOne> #votesrequired
<pleia2> ah, nice :)
 * pleia2 learned something new
<IdleOne> ok so CC we need some help with that email I sent
<IdleOne> :)
<IdleOne> hmm, that doesn't do exactly what I thought it did
<IdleOne> that sets the number of votes needed for a vote to be consider "voted on"
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-03-07
<AlanBell> IdleOne: yes
<IdleOne> AlanBell: some confusion was created in our back channel about the meetingology output after the vote was ended.
<AlanBell> votesrequired I think does what you want
<AlanBell> and you can set it to zero
<IdleOne> which lead to an email to the CC for clarification on how many +1's are required for a applicant to be approved.
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<IdleOne> so hypothetically speaking if say 4 +1's were required what value would I set for #votesrequired?
<AlanBell> 4
<AlanBell> if you get 4 +1s and a -1 it would fail
<AlanBell> but 4+1s and a 0 would pass
<IdleOne> ok that makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up for me :)
 * hggdh has to remember setting votesrequired... AlanBell -- this is set where, on the call to #vote , or as a standaline #votersrequired?
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-03-08
<faqih_dan_kucing> Hello :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-03-02
<tyhicks> hello
<jjohansen> \o
 * sbeattie waves
<mdeslaur> \o
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Mar  2 16:37:20 2015 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<jdstrand> I'm working on the store review tools wrt snappy
<jdstrand> I'm also helping with the oxide FFe and helping coordinate some oxide work
<jdstrand> I also have performance reviews to do
<jdstrand> I hope to work on snappy hw access some more. phase 1 landed, but need to be thinking longer term now
<jdstrand> I'd like to sync up with tyhicks and/or jjohansen on overlayfs/apparmor at some point this week too
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<mdeslaur> I'm on community this week
<mdeslaur> and tomorrow, I have patch piloting
<mdeslaur> I'm still banging my head on the icu updates
<mdeslaur> that's probably going to take up a couple of days still
<mdeslaur> after that, I'll continue down the CVE list
<mdeslaur> that's it for me
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm on security bug triage this week
<sbeattie> I also need to correct the mir abstraction library paths for bug 1422521
<ubottu> bug 1422521 in apparmor (Ubuntu) "mmap of ...mir/client-platform/mesa.so DENIED" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1422521
<sbeattie> I'm continuing to test gcc-5 with pie enabled by default.
<sbeattie> I have some apparmor patches to review and am hoping to release 2.9.2 soon.
<sbeattie> That's pretty much it for me.
<sbeattie> tyhicks: tag.
<jdstrand> sbeattie: will 2.9.2 contain the mir abstraction?
<jdstrand> or we still want it to mature?
<sbeattie> Maybe. I'd kind of like it to mature a bit, perhaps move the unpriv mir client socket there as well.
<sbeattie> But I can also see the desire to get it in place upstream and fleshed out there instead.
<tyhicks> sbeattie: have you wrapped up the work to look at how well the apparmor init script is working with systemd?
<sbeattie> tyhicks: mostly, I want to poke at it a little more, but things are looking okay so far.
<tyhicks> sbeattie: good to hear - thanks for looking at that :)
<tyhicks> I'm on CVE triage this week
<tyhicks> it is the first time in a long time so it'll take me a while to get back in the swing of things
<tyhicks> I still need to land fixes upstream, retest and publish ecryptfs-utils security updates
<tyhicks> I'm going to add the ability to check subfeatures and then send out v2 of the libapparmor API changes
<tyhicks> by subfeatures, I mean the permissions typically found in the "mask" files of apparmorfs (such as apparmorfs/dbus/mask)
<tyhicks> then I'll restart my work on AppArmor kernel keyring mediation for user data encryption
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I need to finish testing the fix for the fd_inheritance Bug 1423810 (it is backport kernels only),
<jjohansen> I still need to finish looking into Bug 1425398, a first glance lead me to believe its actually a bug fix against the trusty version of apparmor that is causing the issue.
<jjohansen> push the current stack of bug fixes up to the kt
<jjohansen> Finish my review of the latest revision of the LSM stacking patches
<jjohansen> sync up discuss the libapparmor policy load api
<jjohansen> sync up with jdstrand on overlayfs
<jjohansen> and of course get back to upstreaming cleanup
<ubottu> bug 1423810 in apparmor (Ubuntu) "[krillin] apparmor fd_inheritance regression test causes kernel to crash" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1423810
<ubottu> bug 1425398 in linux-lts-utopic (Ubuntu) "Apparmor uses rsyslogd profile for different processes - utopic HWE" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1425398
<jdstrand> sbeattie: re systemd> I just noticed on a snappy system:
<jdstrand> 1 processes are unconfined but have a profile defined.
<jdstrand>    /sbin/dhclient (723)
<jdstrand> sbeattie: that may be known-- dhclient is a system profile and not a snap profile, but seems we need to do something special there *if* we weren't going to land cache loading
<jjohansen> that isn't surprising
<jdstrand> no, it isn'
<jdstrand> t
<sbeattie> jdstrand: hunh, okay. I didn't see that in a vm, but I'll try and play around with snappy this week
<jdstrand> also, I'm not sure how tradition server software is doing
<jdstrand> traditional*
<jdstrand> sbeattie: thanks
<jdstrand> sbeattie: it might be a race. ping me if you need help with snappy kvm
<jjohansen> that is it for me sarnold you're up
<sarnold> I'm in happy place this week; I'm working on several MIR requests and back-burnered the horizon updates; those are blocked on the server team's work on preparing their servrestack testing environment to handle precise with distro-supplied openstack
<sarnold> when they have something far enough along to test, I'll head over to that
<sarnold> and I'll try to review some of the apparmor patches coming this week or already outstanding, but it's also not going to be a top priority
<sarnold> that's it for me, chrisccoulson?
<tyhicks> sarnold: lets continue to wait on the precise-essex serverstack enablement this week
<tyhicks> sarnold: if it doesn't happen this week, we need to go back to the wiki page for precise testing next week
<sarnold> tyhicks: makes sense
<tyhicks> thanks
<chrisccoulson> This week, I'll be getting thunderbird out. I also expect a chromium update, which means there'll be a corresponding oxide update
<chrisccoulson> Other than that, I'll be working on oxide bugs
<chrisccoulson> That's me done
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/insighttoolkit4.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libphp-adodb.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/maildrop.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/xlockmore.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/python-soappy.html
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Mar  2 17:01:15 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-03-02-16.37.moin.txt
<mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks!
<jdstrand> tyhicks: thanks!
<jjohansen> thanks tyhicks
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks!
<micahg-work> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> bdrung, ScottK, Laney, micahg, xnox, bdmurray, stgraber: DMB ping
 * bdmurray waves
 * stgraber waves
<stgraber> we need one more to be useful
 * bdrung waves (a last time)
<bdrung> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> bdrung, ScottK, Laney, micahg, xnox, bdmurray, stgraber: DMB ping
 * bdmurray waves some more
<bdrung> we are now four people
<micahg-work> oh, haha, right
<micahg-work> stgraber, your turn?
<stgraber> ah, maybe
<stgraber> #startmeeting DMB
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Mar  2 19:20:06 2015 UTC.  The chair is stgraber. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic:
<stgraber> #topic past actions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: past actions
<stgraber> so for Noskcaj only bdrung hasn't voted yet, though it won't actually make any difference at this point
<stgraber> which means the application isn't succesful at this time. I'll reply saying as much.
<stgraber> #topic DMB election
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: DMB election
<stgraber> results are here: http://civs.cs.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/results.pl?id=E_7ce24ee3e589e440
<bdrung> if it makes no difference, then I won't process my backlog of emails to vote.
<stgraber> bdrung: yeah, rule is +4, he's currently at a score of 0 with only two +1s so your vote wouldn't make a difference one way or the other
<stgraber> so the result of the election is that ScottK, Laney and I get another 2 years and cyphermox replaces bdrung on the board.
 * stgraber tries to find the process notes for the DMB election stuff
<stgraber> not being very succesful
<stgraber> anyway, I think the standard process is to vote to confirm the result, then send that to the TB (in this case, me) who takes care of doing the actual changes
<bdrung> I didn't nominate myself to for another two year term, because my job and real life kept me too busy. I wanted to give room for some fresh blood who can spend more time on the board.
<stgraber> #vote Approve the result of the DMB election (http://civs.cs.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/results.pl?id=E_7ce24ee3e589e440)
<meetingology> Please vote on: Approve the result of the DMB election (http://civs.cs.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/results.pl?id=E_7ce24ee3e589e440)
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<bdrung> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdrung
<stgraber> bdrung: thank you for serving for all these years!
<stgraber> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
<micahg-work> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg-work
<bdmurray> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdmurray
<stgraber> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Approve the result of the DMB election (http://civs.cs.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/results.pl?id=E_7ce24ee3e589e440)
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<micahg-work> bdrung, thanks for your many years of service!
<bdrung> Thanks. It was a pleasure to work with all of you.
<stgraber> alright, so that's all good. I'll send the e-mail to the TB list and will update the LP team, ML and IRC ACLs accordingly.
<stgraber> #action stgraber to forward the DMB election results to the TB and implement the needed changes
<meetingology> ACTION: stgraber to forward the DMB election results to the TB and implement the needed changes
<stgraber> and again, thanks bdrung for serving for all these years and congratulations to cyphermox!
<stgraber> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<stgraber> Next chair according to wiki will be ScottK (skipping bdrung since he's leaving and it wouldn't be very fair to have cyphermox chair on his first meeting)
<stgraber> next meeting is March 16th at 15:00 UTC
<stgraber> anything else we should cover?
<bdrung> So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish ;)
<bdrung> but I won't leave earth. :)
<stgraber> :)
<stgraber> well, sounds like we're done. Thanks everyone for attending!
<stgraber> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Mar  2 19:30:08 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-03-02-19.20.moin.txt
<bdrung> i will stay around contributing to Debian and Ubuntu as normal developer.
 * cyphermox hugs bdrung
 * bdrung hugs cyphermox and invites all DMB members to a beer (in case you visit Berlin)
<elfy> stgraber: on the other hand - who said meetings should be fair, I'd come along with popcorn if cyphermox runs the next one :D
<cyphermox> sounds good
<cyphermox> (the beer)
<stgraber> elfy: :)
<bdrung> German beer. It must be good! :D
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-03-03
<smoser> o./
<hallyn_> arosales is up today?
<gnuoy> o/
<arosales> o/
<arosales> ah sorry I didn't update the rotate order, but I am happy to host today
<arosales> I guess that should be my penance since I didn't udpate the rotate order
<coreycb> o/
<jamespage> o/
 * arosales gets instructions
<arosales> alright, lets rock
<arosales> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Mar  3 16:03:31 2015 UTC.  The chair is arosales. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<arosales> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<matsubara> o/
<gaughen> \o   o/     \o
<kickinz1> o/
<arosales> non that I see from last week
<arosales> #topic Vivid Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Vivid Development
<arosales> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VividVervet/ReleaseSchedule
<strikov> o/
<arosales> #info Final Beta Freeze, Warning /!\ Final Beta Mar
<smoser> Mar ...
<smoser> insert day of month here.
<arosales> #info Final Beta Freeze, Warning /!\ Final Beta Mar 25
<arosales> #info UserInterFaceFreeze on March 12
<jamespage> that's not far off
<arosales> right around the corner
<jamespage> indeed
<arosales> #subtopic Release Bugs
<arosales> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-v-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<arosales> hmm that isn't loading for me atm, is it working for others?
<arosales> smoser: ^ that link work for you?
<gnuoy> not working for me
<arosales> #action smoser follow up on #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-v-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server not working
<meetingology> ACTION: smoser follow up on #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-v-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server not working
<smoser> arosales, thanks
<arosales> we'll cover some bugs later, but any release tracking bugs we should discuss now?
<arosales> ok, moving on
<arosales> #subtopic Blueprints
<arosales> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-v/group/topic-v-server.html
<arosales> #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-v-server-core
<arosales> 3 blueprints, all red atm
<arosales> hmm don't see rbask here atm
<arosales> smoser: work in this BP look to be updated and in progress?
<smoser> i'll take a look at that.
<arosales> smoser: thanks
<smoser> and get it into orde.r
<arosales> smoser: thank you sir
<arosales> zul: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-v-openstack-kilo
<arosales> up to date and on track?
<arosales> #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-v-openstack-kilo
<zul> on track not up to date
<arosales> good to hear on track, if you have a spare moment could you update?
<arosales> #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-v-openstack-charms
<arosales> gnuoy: up to date and on track ^
<gnuoy> up to date, yes. on track ...hmmmm
<arosales> A few todos there, that I think you were prioritizing
<gnuoy> absolutely
<arosales> gnuoy: thanks
<arosales> those are the three BPs out there
<arosales> hmm, there are a couple more out at the spec, but not in status
<arosales> #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-v-cloud-init
<arosales> smoser: no work items there
<smoser> updating
<arosales> smoser: thanks
<arosales> #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-v-osci
<arosales> was the other
<arosales> beisner: ^ no work items there either
<arosales> that looks like the 5 BPs for the vivid cycle
<arosales> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<caribou> arosales: nothing from the CTS side this week
<arosales> caribou: ok, thanks
<arosales> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
<hallyn_> thought there was an action to update that
<arosales> hallyn_  that was my action I missed. I'll update.
<arosales> hallyn_: to confirm who was the correct qa rep?
<arosales> #action arosales update QA Team rep
<meetingology> ACTION: arosales update QA Team rep
<arosales> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<arosales> Any events (meetups, conferences) folks would liketo call out here?
<hallyn_> arosales: was it beisner wh owas going to take over?
<arosales> hallyn_: I think you may be riht
<arosales> *right
<smb> arosales, I have nothing this week, just in case. :)
<arosales> smb: apologies, sorry skipped over that link :-/
<arosales> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<beisner> hi hallyn_, matsubara will be the contact
<smb> arosales, I have nothing this week anyway :)
<arosales> #info no updates from Kernel team (smb)
<arosales> smb thanks
<hallyn_> beisner: thx :)
<arosales> #action arosales update QA Team rep to matsubara
<meetingology> ACTION: arosales update QA Team rep to matsubara
<arosales> re: Events
<beisner> arosales, re: blueprint - will move workitems from a diff bp asap.
<arosales> MWC is this week
<arosales> beisner: thank you
<arosales> Ubuntu booth @ MWC https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ATkXumIdXKw/VPQGak11pwI/AAAAAAAAJhI/6Kg-F5sxch8/w1598-h614-no/IMG_0943.JPG
<arosales> if folks are in Spain be sure to check it out
<arosales> OpenPower summit coming up on the 16th of March if folks are in the San Jose area
<arosales> http://openpowerfoundation.org/2015-summit/
<arosales> #link http://openpowerfoundation.org/2015-summit/
<arosales> thats the ones I know of that are coming up.
<arosales> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<arosales> Any other topics?
<arosales> I'll take it we covered the relevant bits
<arosales> smb:  apologies agains for skipping over kernel team's update, thanks for the renider
<arosales> *reminder
<arosales> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date and time
<smb> arosales, No worries :)
<arosales> smb: thanks
<arosales> #info Tuesday 2015-03-10 at 1600 UTC
<arosales> thanks for joining
<arosales> #endmeeting
<hallyn_> thx arosales \o
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Mar  3 16:28:04 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-03-03-16.03.moin.txt
<gnuoy> thanks arosales
<kickinz1> Thanks
<caribou> thanks arosales
<arosales> np, /me will be sure to udpate the wiki this time :-)
<matsubara> thanks arosales
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Mar  3 17:00:30 2015 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Vivid
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<ppisati> o/
<ogasawara> o/
<henrix> o/
<sforshee> o/
<bjf> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Vivid Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Vivid Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> We have officially uploaded our v3.19 kernel for Vivid to the archive,
<ogasawara> ie. 3.19.0-7.7.  Please test and let us know your results.
<ogasawara> This is also an early reminder that kernel freeze for Vivid is on Thurs
<ogasawara> Apr 9.  If you have any patches which need to land for 15.04's release,
<ogasawara> please make sure to submit those sooner rather than later.
<ogasawara> -----
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VividVervet/ReleaseSchedule
<ogasawara> Thurs Mar 26 - Final Beta (~3 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Apr 09 - Kernel Freeze (~5 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Apr 23 - 15.04 Release (~7 weeks away)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's
<jsalisbury> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Utopic/Trusty/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/kamal/arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Utopic/Trusty/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/kamal/arges)
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until today:
<bjf>   *   Lucid - Kernel Prep
<bjf>   * Precise - Kernel Prep
<bjf>   *  Trusty - Kernel Prep
<bjf>   *  Utopic - Kernel Prep
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf>  
<bjf> Schedule:
<bjf>  
<bjf> cycle: 27-Feb through 21-Mar
<bjf> ====================================================================
<bjf>          27-Feb   Last day for kernel commits for this cycle
<bjf> 01-Mar - 07-Mar   Kernel prep week.
<bjf> 08-Mar - 21-Mar   Bug verification; Regression testing; Release
<bjf>  
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Mar  3 17:03:24 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-03-03-17.00.moin.txt
<cking> thanks jsalisbury
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-03-05
<genii> When they came out of the bank fired shots and I got shotgun pellets in my leg had to go to hospital
 * slangasek waves
<mvo> hi
<jodh> o/
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Mar  5 16:00:52 2015 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity mvo sil2100 robru cyphermox)
<slangasek> mvo robru bdmurray caribou slangasek barry cyphermox jodh infinity doko sil2100 stgraber
<slangasek> (base)vorlon@virgil:~/canonical$
<mvo> I win!
<slangasek> mvo: and go!
<mvo> click:
<mvo> - lp:~mvo/click/fix-autopkgtest and new 0.4.38.4 version
<mvo> snappy:
<mvo> - new snappy-go features: login (with 2fa), build
<mvo> - no more dbus in snappy-go
<mvo> - fixes, cleanup
<mvo> - big refactor of ubuntu-core-upgrader, fix hardware.yaml unpack
<mvo> misc:
<mvo> - fix freeradius ftbfs and upstart reload bug
<mvo> (done)
<slangasek> robru:
<robru> * CI Train
<robru>   - refactoring continues, increased overall test coverage from 75 to 82%
<robru>   - achieved 100% test coverage in merge_clean.py and branchhandling.py
<robru>   - merge_clean.py shrank from 246 to 81 lines, without feature regressions.
<robru>   - branchhandling.py shrank from 348 to 286 lines, also without feature regressions.
<robru>   - fixed a bug affecting -gles packages where both gles and non-gles packages would clobber each other when being pushed to launchpad at publish time.
<robru>   - fixed a bug preventing jobs from aborting when users abort jenkins jobs
<robru>   - fixed bug in publish job which allowed it to silently succeed even though publication had failed.
<robru>   - consolidated various version-mangling functions into shiny new version.py file
<robru>   - fixed bug where build job was not timing out while waiting for packages to appear in ppa in certain conditions
<robru>   - added 2 hour timeout on depwait packages, meaning there are no longer any conditions in which the build job can sit & spin forever.
<robru>   - various and sundry cleanups, readability improvements, etc
<robru> * CI Engine
<robru>   - slowly getting up to speed on the ticket system, submitted first branch towards replacing spreadsheet
<slangasek> barry: hi, the order is mvo robru bdmurray caribou slangasek barry cyphermox jodh infinity doko sil2100 stgraber
<caribou> o/
<mvo> robru: it sounds like you have fun!
<mvo> impressive results :)
<robru> mvo: thanks ;-)
<bdmurray> robru: all done?
<robru> bdmurray: yeah
<bdmurray> irc discussion with thedac regarding errors writing cores to swift
<bdmurray> worked with thedac to increase --timeout for gunicorn daisy FEs to avoid OOPSes when writing cores to swift (set to 40s)
<bdmurray> investigation into OOPSes when submitting cores to daisy
<bdmurray> sorted out daisy / gunicorn logging issues
<bdmurray> had daisy updated on staging and production to resolve logging issues
<bdmurray> updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ErrorTracker/ServerArchitecture with information about more tables
<bdmurray> updated daisy charm to properly set permissions for daisy app / gunicorn
<bdmurray> investigation into how to discount package-from-proposed crashes in phased-updater regression check
<bdmurray> worked on improving the fix for unattended-upgrades bug 1422345 per stgraber
<ubottu> bug 1422345 in unattended-upgrades (Debian) "stop being nice does not work" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1422345
<bdmurray> submitted improved fix for unattended-upgrades bug to mvo on github
<bdmurray> updated bug bot to better process SRU verification removal candidates
<bdmurray> helped Riddell upload ubuntu-release-upgrader for vivid (test failure)
<bdmurray> improved missing ddeb detector code to use a known list of missing ddebs and not notify about those
<bdmurray> fixed error with linux apport hook and BootDmesg
<bdmurray> bug management discussion with cyphermox
<bdmurray> investigation into gvfs halted phased update
<bdmurray> updated phased-updater code to include link to phasing report in email messages
<bdmurray> sponsored patch to T,U fixing bug LP: #1422359
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1422359 in heimdal (Ubuntu Utopic) "heimdal-kdc: kdc process leaks memory" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1422359
<mvo> bdmurray: thanks for the unattended-upgrades branch!
<bdmurray> â done
<caribou> Bugfix :
<bdmurray> mvo: is it merged?
<caribou>  - Misc SRU follow-up
<mvo> bdmurray: *cough* not yet :(
<caribou> - openstack : instances left dying : trying to reproduce
<caribou> - openafs dkms build : SRU completed (LP: #1423151)
<mvo> bdmurray: but soon!
<caribou> (done)Ã 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1423151 in openafs (Ubuntu Trusty) "openafs-modules-dkms 1.6.7-1: openafs kernel module failed to build" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1423151
<caribou> slangasek: all yours
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek>  * snappy alpha-3 milestone released this week
<slangasek>  * reviewing
<slangasek>  * partner calls regarding new server opportunities
<slangasek>  * hiring: going through resumes now for Java engineer role, to schedule
<slangasek> interviews next week
<slangasek>  * making progress on the phone channel refactoring proposal, will be
<slangasek> submitted for consideration this week
<slangasek>  * systemd freeze exception: possibly flipping the switch today provided a
<slangasek> release FFe review
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek> ok I have no idea what 'reviewing' in there was, ignore that line ;P
<barry> system-image: refined server merge proposal. LP: #1423622.  si 3.0 betas to PPA
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1423622 in Ubuntu system image "Please provide machine parsable output" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1423622
<barry> qa sprint: ongoing
<barry> other: LP: #1363642 (debian bug #744145)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1363642 in python-pip (Ubuntu) "pip breaks after upgrading python package "requests"" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1363642
<ubottu> Debian bug 744145 in python-pip "pip crashes on "import requests"" [Serious,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/744145
<barry> --done--
<cyphermox>  * console-setup merge for 1.108:
<cyphermox>    - finish testing install, upgrade, etc.
<cyphermox>    - fixing issue with mangled keyboard/layout names
<cyphermox>    - fix typo in config script which broke layout selection skipping.
<cyphermox>    - FFe for upload
<cyphermox>  * Upload kbd to fix console-setup-mini being uninstallable.
<cyphermox>  * Removed console-setup-freebsd from console-setup (uninstallable)
<cyphermox>  * update kbd for console-setup-mini's new depends on console-setup-linux.
<cyphermox>  * debian-installer, installation-guide:
<cyphermox>    - update to use --- instead of -- as a separator
<cyphermox>      - this also fixes OEM mode, accessibility not working on server.
<cyphermox>  * update debian-cd to use --- as separator on built ISOs.
<cyphermox>  * discussed boot parameters for the installer with smoser.
<cyphermox>    - bug 1402042, and how it relates to -- vs. ---.
<ubottu> bug 1402042 in MAAS trunk "console= parameters need to be added before -- on kernel cmdline" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1402042
<cyphermox>  * debugging grub2 bug 1349538
<ubottu> bug 1349538 in Ubuntu "grub-install failure on 2T disk and msdos partition table" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1349538
<cyphermox>  * walked through/documented steps to test ubiquity changes with robert_ancell.
<cyphermox>  * reviewed some merges from Yu Ning for usb-creator.
<cyphermox>  * some discussion about BlueZ 5.
<cyphermox> (done)
<slangasek> jodh:
<jodh> * misc:
<jodh>   - Appraisal work.
<jodh> * snappy:
<jodh>   - logging discussions.
<jodh>   - Promotion image testing.
<jodh>   - Raised MP for bug 1418966.
<ubottu> bug 1418966 in snappy-ubuntu "setting the hostname is not persistent accross reboots" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1418966
<jodh>   - Fixed bug 1428276.
<ubottu> bug 1428276 in snappy-ubuntu "wrong date formatting in 'snappy go list' output" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1428276
<jodh>   - Reviewed a bunch of branches and raised a few minor MPs.
<jodh>   - Finished adding more unit tests and functional tests to
<jodh>     ubuntu-core-upgrader (now landed).
<jodh>   - First pass at adding locking primitives to snappy
<jodh>     (including new test goodness :)
<jodh> ð
<slangasek> infinity sent his regrets for this morning
<slangasek> doko:
<doko> - prepare binutils update for trusty-proposed
<doko> - gcc-4.9 update for vivid
<doko> - GCC 5: updates, reducing and filing upstream issues for ICEs
<doko> - golang, move gofmt to use alternatives
<doko> - handle a bunch of MIR's
<doko> - start fixing GCC 5 issues in packages
<doko> (done)
<slangasek> and sil2100 isn't in here
<slangasek> so stgraber
<slangasek> stgraber: here?
<stgraber> yep
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> oh
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> stgraber:
<stgraber> Short week, was off on Tuesday and Wednesday.
<stgraber>  
<stgraber>  - LXD
<stgraber>    - Released LXD 0.2
<stgraber>    - Various feature work for 0.3 (reworked the exec code, fixed testsuite, translation, ...)
<stgraber>    - Plenty of code reviews and bug handling
<stgraber>    - Preparing for 0.3, due Tuesday
<stgraber>  - System image
<stgraber>    - Code review and discussion with Barry
<stgraber>  - Admin paperwork (HR reviews, expense report, travel plans, ...)
<stgraber>  
<stgraber> (done)
<slangasek> thanks
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<barry> stgraber: did you look at the updated mp?
<caribou> I have had a request for a MIR for openafs following a dkms breakage with the new Trusty kernel
<stgraber> barry: haven't yet, no
<barry> stgraber: k, no worries
<caribou> the dkms build is not tested, hence a change in the dentry structure broke the openafs module rebuild
<caribou> would such situation be better covered if openAFS would be included in main ?
<slangasek> caribou: how does the package being in main or not relate to the dkms build not being tested?
<slangasek> I think putting it in main is a rather heavyweight solution for addressing the package not being tested on kernel updates
<caribou> slangasek: that's the question I have : having it in main would not give us better result on such cases
<caribou> slangasek: especially since the src pkg build quite a chunk of packages.
<slangasek> because main implies security review and security support, when all it seems you're asking for is to keep the package from regressing
<caribou> apw did sponsor the upload for the SRU so I did talk to him about this
<caribou> slangasek: indeed. Good then, that's the answer I was after, thanks
<slangasek> caribou: so we now have autopkgtest support for SRUs
<slangasek> it would be good to have a dkms build as an autopkgtest in the openafs package (and I would accept an SRU for this)
<caribou> slangasek: ok, I will look into this
<slangasek> then http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html would report the dkms failure ... er I think, unless the kernel packages are handled *too* specially on there
<slangasek> bdmurray: ^^ would we get revdep autopkgtest results displayed for the kernel?
<slangasek> oh, but the other problem is that openafs-modules-dkms doesn't actually depend on a kernel package, because that has side effects
<caribou> slangasek: in that case, it would be the openafs-modules-dkms package that would fail, woudn't it ?
<slangasek> so step 1) openafs should have an autopkgtest to prove the dkms module is buildable
<apw> slangasek, i thought we had automatically implied autopkgtests for dkms things now
<slangasek> apw: oh?  I don't know about this
<apw> what we don't have is implied relationships between the dkms packages and the kernel
<slangasek> caribou: yes, and the test failure of a reverse dependency is treated as a regression in the package that changed
<caribou> slangasek: got it
<slangasek> apw: ok, so is that somewhere in the CI team's backlog? :)
<slangasek> caribou: anyway, hopefully that helps as far as identifying the "right answer"... there are probably still a few pieces to be put in place before it's fully implemented
<sil2100> o/
<apw> slangasek, that i do not know, i know we do have dkms testing, and we have been talking about using the results there to block the kernle via the britney blocks
<sil2100> Sorry guys, my lunch shifted and it happened during the meeting
<slangasek> sil2100: hey there :)
<sil2100> I completely missed it... can I still put my status update?
<sil2100> ;)
<slangasek> apw: yes, exactly - though for SRUs we don't use britney so the blocks don't make a difference AFAIK
<slangasek> apw: on the other hand, you could mark the linux SRU bugs 'verification-failed'...?
<slangasek> apw: (with a bot)
<slangasek> (and a pointer to the test results)
<slangasek> sil2100: yes, go ahead
<sil2100> Ok, a quick one then from my side:
<sil2100> - Landing team work, silo coordination, preparing landing e-mails
<sil2100> - Documenting the early ww09-2015 milestone on the reports page
<sil2100> - Clean-up in blocker bugs and ubuntu-rtm silos
<sil2100> - Minor spreadsheet script fixes
<sil2100> - Send out request to developers regarding the QA sign-off procedures
<sil2100>   * Announcements, annoucements, announcements
<sil2100> - Patch pilot sessions:
<sil2100>   * Sponsored trusty upload for virtualbox, prepare bug to include SRU information
<sil2100>   * Prepared a package for httptunnel, modified the patch, did a test-build in a PPA
<sil2100>   * Looking into cryptkeeper proposed debdiff
<sil2100> - Ubuntu Engineering Live!
<sil2100> - RTM Status meetings
<sil2100> - Resolving a FTBFS for UITK -gles, offering packaging advice
<sil2100> - Prepare custom tarball for ubuntu-rtm mako (updated termminal)
<sil2100> (done)
<sil2100> Never again late lunch
<robru> sil2100: late lunch? or early dinner?
<sil2100> hm, depends, since our lunch is usually the main meal
<robru> interesting
<sil2100> So we usually eat something more like supper in the evening
<robru> sil2100: I didn't know there was a difference between dinner and supper ;-)
<slangasek> the main meal is dinner; the evening meal is supper; the noon meal is lunch
<slangasek> discuss
<robru> T. I. L.
<slangasek> or we could adjourn ;)
<barry> i prefer brinner
<sil2100> hah
<caribou> brunch is good too :)
<robru> I've often enjoyed a good breakfunch ;-)
<sil2100> brlunner
<slangasek> but at all costs you should avoid lekfast
<robru> lol
<sil2100> 3 meals in one
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Mar  5 16:26:31 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-03-05-16.00.moin.txt
<mvo> haha
<slangasek> thanks ;)
<sil2100> o/
<jodh> thanks!
<mvo> thanks
<caribou> thanks!
<dholbach> hello
<czajkowski> aloha
<elfy> hi
<dholbach> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Mar  5 17:02:11 2015 UTC.  The chair is dholbach. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<dholbach> #chair czajkowski elfy
<meetingology> Current chairs: czajkowski dholbach elfy
<dholbach> how are we all doing?
<dholbach> looking at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda it looks like we're meeting up with the IRC Council today
<mhall119> hello everyone
<dholbach> #chair mhall119
<meetingology> Current chairs: czajkowski dholbach elfy mhall119
<dholbach> do we have anyone from the IRC Council here?
 * mhall119 doesn't see IRC council on that wiki page
<dholbach> mhall119, 5th March
<mhall119> ah, nvm me, there it is
<dholbach> :)
<mhall119> just not in the table
<dholbach> yeah, it wasn't updated
<elfy> no-one reminded them - I pinged irc-ops this morning and mailed them later
<dholbach> Pici, Tm_T, elky, hggdh: anyone of you there?
<dholbach> flanell doesn't seem to be in #u-meeting
<dholbach> if not, we might have to reschedule
<elfy> Tm_T wasn't sure if he could make it with travelling
<mhall119> did we have anyone else on the schedule for today?
<elfy> mhall119: nope that's it
<dholbach> ok.. I can take an action to mail the IRC Council to reschedule
<dholbach> and we can open the floor to other business?
<elfy> yep - works for me
<dholbach> cool
<dholbach> #topic Any other business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Any other business
<dholbach> there's the membership nomination period going on right now - do we need to start another call for nominees or something?
<elfy> got done 2 weeks ago - might be useful to catch membership board to see if they've had any response
<dholbach> ok
<czajkowski> cool
<dholbach> DMB got done
<dholbach> are there other boards/councils restaffing now or soon?
<elfy> loco is in hand
<elfy> then all clear till the wibbly wobbly whinocewos cycle
<dholbach> ok, in terms of the loco council, do we need to do anything?
 * dholbach just mailed the Membership boards as well
<elfy> dholbach: don't think so
<dholbach> ok cool
<dholbach> I know I still have to participate in the CC interviews :)
 * mhall119 casts his vote for wibbly wobbly whinocewos
<elfy> bad bad dholbach :p
<dholbach> are there any other work items we need to look at now?
<Pici> I'm sort of here, but doing work stuff as well... I'd prefer that we reschedule so that some others can attend to.
<Pici> too
<mhall119> UOS is coming up, we should think about what we want to do in terms of sessions and getting others in the community to participate and propose sessions
 * cprofitt waves
<elfy> Pici: ok :)
<mhall119> hi Pici
<Pici> hi!
<elfy> hi cprofitt :)
<cprofitt> hello elfy
<dholbach> mhall119, nice one!
<dholbach> Pici, makes sense
<dholbach> and hi!
<dholbach> mhall119, how do we best organise this? just do a call for sessions, maybe on the community list?
<mhall119> dholbach: that, but maybe we should also contact each of the different councils directly and encourage them to have their own plans for recruiting and running sessions
<cprofitt> dholbach: community list, fridge and planet?
<cprofitt> +1 mhall119
<dholbach> yes, makes sense
<mhall119> dholbach: please do me a favor and include an appeal for track lead volunteers in whatever is sent out
<mhall119> people interested in being a track lead can contact me directly
<elfy> perhaps we should think about those teams that have told us "getting people involved is an issue"
<elfy> then see if we can get someone from those to run a session
<elfy> or rather point them in the right direction
<cprofitt> I like that idea a lot elfy
<mhall119> yeah, we might need to be pro-active and help them make that happen
<cprofitt> perhaps having them hold a session about their team would help
<dholbach> mhall119, I didn't agree to send something out yet :-P
<mhall119> ok, so we need a doc where we can start putting this list together
<cprofitt> we can offer some advice and assistance in making the session happen as well
<mhall119> dholbach: I'm pretty sure you did :-P
<dholbach> your jedi mind tricks don't work today :-P
<elfy> mhall119: a pad would do
<dholbach> I like the idea of the pad
<cprofitt> dholbach says, this is not the community team member you are looking for. mhall119 looks the other way.
<mhall119> elfy: and all: http://pad.ubuntu.com/PkXURXDKrM
<mhall119> cprofitt: his german mind-tricks have to affect on me
<dholbach> anything else we need to do in terms of UOS planning?
<mhall119> "we" being the community council, I don't think so
<dholbach> ok
<mhall119> "we" being you and I on the community team, yeah, lots
<dholbach> haha, yes :)
<cprofitt> I think the CC should really encourage teams to get involved from a team level
<mhall119> +1
<cprofitt> I am also curious if we should allow sessions to be run at any time vs. setting times for them
<elfy> well ... it never really worked for one team I'm involved with and the other it's just unlikely to ever happen
<mhall119> Summit doesn't really support ad-hoc scheduling
<cprofitt> with it being online it might make sense to open that up so people who can not attend due to time restrictions (work, sleep, etc) can attend.
<elfy> mhall119: and that's mostly the problem imo
 * mhall119 welcomes somebody to come in and replace Summit with something better
 * elfy always wonders how many are missing because it IS 2am where they are
<cprofitt> mhall119: I wasn't talking about ad-hoc, but the ability to schedule things in a larger window than the typical 8 hour summit bloc. That window made sense when were gathered in a physical location, but less now that it is virutal.
<dholbach> maybe we'll manage this time to get a lot of the scheduling doine before UOS itself
<elfy> cprofitt: that
<cprofitt> I would hope we can schedule ahead of time; that would be my preference
<mhall119> cprofitt: we could expand the range of time it's open, sure
<cprofitt> that is what I was talking about mhall119
<elfy> seems that the majority running it are either US or EU time(s)
<mhall119> but getting track leads around to cover extra time is going to be dififcult
<elfy> mhall119: ack that
<cprofitt> elfy: exactly, but there is a great deal of difference between Berlin time and San Fran time.
<cprofitt> mhall119: is there a way to have a EU and a US track lead -- assuming we find the volunteers
<mhall119> we can always say "These are the core hours, track leads are around to help then, or you can use these other hours, but you're on your own to make it happen"
<elfy> mhall119: possibly useful
<mhall119> cprofitt: I think we had a decent mix the last few times, it's asia we didn't cover
<cprofitt> mhall119: I agree
<cprofitt> Do we think opening the hours and having TZ leads would help get people from Asia?
<mhall119> czajkowski: pleia2: are you around to comment on this
<mhall119> ?
<mhall119> cprofitt: maybe?
<czajkowski> sorry reading back
<czajkowski> had t jump elsewhere
<cprofitt> mhall119: yeah, that is what I was guessing... it is hard to know which came first... chicken or the egg
<dholbach> maybe we could ask folks in Asia/Oceania to come up a proposal of their own? like: propose sessions/session leaders and times and then we take it from there?
<czajkowski> I stil say schedule a longer day or take some time off in the middle of the day and add a weekend date
<cprofitt> dholbach: that should work.
<dholbach> it'll be hard to change the format and it'll be quite some work
<cprofitt> I like that idea too czajkowski
<czajkowski> its hard to volunteer mid week and work to sit at a screen. One day at weekend would help
<dholbach> and if we don't know that it's actually desired or necessary, then it might be better to focus on other stuff
<elfy> czajkowski: I'm certainly more likely to be available weekend
<cprofitt> with this being virtual there is less need to schdule it the way a physical UDS was.
<mhall119> IIRC, we had an hour block in the middle of last UDS for a break
<cprofitt> weekends would be excellent as well.
<elfy> mhall119: yea that seemed odd to me
<cprofitt> more people would not have work conflicts.
<dholbach> maybe we could have a hangout to start the UOS planning and gather some more feedback? :)
<mhall119> we can use next week's planned hangout
<mhall119> if everybody can make it
<elfy> I should actually be able to next week
 * czajkowski proposes a 2 hours gap in the day at least 
<dholbach> cool
<czajkowski> and adding  a day at the weekend
<mhall119> czajkowski: can you add your ideas to http://pad.ubuntu.com/PkXURXDKrM ?
 * dholbach marks it as the uos hangout :)
<czajkowski> ack
<dholbach> thanks a lot :)
<dholbach> anything else?
 * mhall119 has nothing else
 * elfy neither
 * mhall119 is thrilled that we're starting UOS talks and planning more than just a couple of weeks before it starts
<cprofitt> nothing else from me either.
<cprofitt> +1 mhall119
<dholbach> yes :)
<dholbach> ok... that's a wrap then!
<dholbach> thanks a lot everyone!
<dholbach> #stopmeeting
<cprofitt> we need to inovlve team leads as soon as possible as well.
<dholbach> yep
<elfy> dholbach: try
<pleia2> endmeeting ;)
<elfy> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Mar  5 17:43:34 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-03-05-17.02.moin.txt
<dholbach> aha!
<dholbach> :)
<elfy> pleia2: :D
<dholbach> that makes sense
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-03-07
<Kilos> o/
<tyhicks> hello
<mdeslaur> \o
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Mar  7 16:32:55 2016 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<jdstrand> hi
<jdstrand> so this week I will be working with the snappy core team on integrating security policies into interfaces
<jdstrand> I also plan to work on security policies for snappy on classic
<jdstrand> I have 2-3 embargoed items I'm working on
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm currently testing a django regression fix for the regression fix that I'll be publishing today
<mdeslaur> hopefully we won't require a regression fix for the regression fix for the regression fix
<mdeslaur> I have an embargoed issue I'm working on
<mdeslaur> and I plan on going down the list after that
<mdeslaur> I'm on bug triage too
<mdeslaur> that's about it
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm on cve triage this week
<sbeattie> I'll also be going through the more recent pie-rebuild test results, and prepping fixes where needed.
<sbeattie> I have an update that's been sitting on the back burner that I need to get off my plate
<sbeattie> that'll probably consume my week
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: what update?
<sbeattie> pillow
<mdeslaur> ah, I think there's been another CVE for that, in case you weren't aware
<sbeattie> It was assigned after the fact, but I'd pulled the fix in for it initially
<mdeslaur> oh, cool
<tyhicks> I'm in the happy place this week
<sbeattie> I stalled out on one of the patches not backporting cleanly, and then the tests to confirm things had changed drastically.
<sbeattie> tyhicks: I'm done
<tyhicks> thanks
<tyhicks> I'm focused on AppArmor stacking again... specifically finishing the regression tests for stacking
<tyhicks> I think that'll wrap up all of the userspace changes required to land stacking
<jdstrand> \o/
<tyhicks> and we hope to land the stacking changes late this week so that'll take some time, as well
<tyhicks> I'm still trying to get time to fix the eCryptfs parallel copy file corruption bug (LP: #1543633)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1543633 in eCryptfs "Data corruption during parallel file copying with interruptions" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1543633
<tyhicks> and I have an embargoed issue
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I am focused on AppArmor stacking as well. specifically working through the rather long list of issues that remain
 * jjohansen is not as confident as tyhicks of landing it late this week
<tyhicks> I'm not necessarily confident but that's the goal :)
<jjohansen> that is going to take all week, and if by some miracle it doesn't then I will work on updating the upstream trees, and chasing some of the outstanding bugs
<jjohansen> sure, I just wanted to point out I am more pessimistic :P
 * jjohansen is done sarnold you're up
<sarnold> heh if we're aiming at landing stacking this week it feels like we all out to be writing tests .. oof
<sarnold> I'm on community this week; i'm working on the fwupd mir first, then .. hmm, I forget the name of the next one on the list
<sarnold> i'd also like to poke along a feature freeze exception for libvirt's zfsonlinux support
<sarnold> and I'll try to review the apparmor stacking patches ^^ when it makes sense
<tyhicks> golang-websocket-dev is the next MIR on the list
<sarnold> aha, thanks :)
<sarnold> it's also a short week for me
<sarnold> that's it for me, chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> I've got Firefox and Oxide updates to do this week. I shall also (hopefully) be sponsoring Chromium updates
<chrisccoulson> I spent some time last week debugging performance issues on Freiza. I don't plan to spend any more time on that this week, which means I can hopefully crack on with convergence work in Oxide
<chrisccoulson> That's me done :)
<tyhicks> thanks chrisccoulson :)
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/snack.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/jansson.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/groovy2.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/oath-toolkit.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/wv2.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Mar  7 16:58:02 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-03-07-16.32.moin.txt
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks!
<jdstrand> tyhicks: thanks!
<jjohansen> thanks tyhicks
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-03-08
<serge_> o/
<cpaelzer> o/
<smb> \o
<arges> o/
<cpaelzer> I don't see matsubara yet, who should be the chair
<cpaelzer> jgrimm: are you trying to reach him already?
<jgrimm> o/
<jgrimm> oh, matsubara was on earlier. :/
<smoser> o/
<rharper> o/
 * jgrimm jumps in again
<jgrimm> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Mar  8 16:08:08 2016 UTC.  The chair is jgrimm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<jgrimm> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<nacc> I think the only thing to discuss from last week was the triage
<jgrimm> The only action listed from last week was: rbasak (et al) catch up on triage (schedule for 3/3)
<nacc> which we started and are continuing this week, iirc
<jgrimm> correct. rbasak spend time taking a bunch of us through a realtime triage session explaining his thought process/actions.  More this week.
<nacc> jgrimm: did you reschedule it officially?
<jgrimm> nacc, no, i haven't. been a chaotic week so far.
<jgrimm> but, will do today!!
<nacc> np, just making sure i didn't miss it
<jgrimm> thanks!
<jgrimm> #topic Xenial Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Xenial Development
<jgrimm> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/ReleaseSchedule
<rharper> a topic of great discussion recently
<jgrimm> Anyone have anything to discuss with respect to Xenial?
<jgrimm> nacc, how goes php7
<nacc> jgrimm: slangasek has been very patient with me! we're making good progress, figured out (mostly) twig (w/ workaround, still debugging upstream in libpcre3) and php-imagick (fixes in imagemagick and php-imagick)
<nacc> which should allow the latest php7 to migrate
<nacc> and clear out a lot of excuses
<jgrimm> nacc, possibility of finish by EOW?
<nacc> jgrimm: for the php7 to main transition, yes; but for removal of php5 -- seems less likely, just due to sheer quantity. I'll sync with slangasek this week and we'll come up with a timeline, if possible
<jgrimm> ok, will checkpoint again next week
<nacc> thanks!
<jgrimm> nacc, puppet?
<jgrimm> that was a leftover in the blueprint, i've been meaning to poke at
<jgrimm> #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-x-server-core
<jgrimm> [nacc] puppet merge and cleanup: TODO
<cpaelzer> just another Xenial Release FYI: I marked bug 1553185 for 16.04 milestone and work with IBM to understand what they are doing while IS is working on my RTs to make our environment ready. Server Team is already subscribed (not by me)
<ubottu> bug 1553185 in perftest (Ubuntu) "PCI RoCe IB perftest Aborted (core dumped)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1553185
<cpaelzer> consider both bugs 1553185 and 1553183 in my hand until I yell for help or reassignment.
<ubottu> bug 1553183 in dapl (Ubuntu) "libdapl2: PCI RoCe IB dapltest does not recognize updated names of /etc/dat.conf entries" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1553183
<jgrimm> rbasak, mysql5.7 status?
<rbasak> jgrimm: I uploaded to PPA but FTBFS for trivial reason.
<rbasak> When fixed, upstream have volunteered to help test.
<jgrimm> \o/ that's great
<rbasak> When tested, I'll need to confirm with the release team that the FFe is still valid.
<rbasak> Then I can upload.
<jgrimm> thanks
<cpaelzer> rbasak: do you have a link to the ppa - I have friends that want to test that as well
<rbasak> cpaelzer: https://launchpad.net/~mysql-ubuntu/+archive/ubuntu/mysql-5.7
<cpaelzer> thanks
<rbasak> I expect to have something ready today.
<rbasak> Not all the documentations are done, translations are out of date.
<nacc> jgrimm: argh, sorry! will do it today
<jgrimm> rbasak, kickinz1_: anything wrt squid3
<jgrimm> nacc, thanks!
<rbasak> But functionality should be what I intend to upload.
<rbasak> squid3 is pending testing before we remove the proposed block.
<jgrimm> rbasak, i believe kickinz1_ was going to send you some status on his testing.  he ran into a couple issues, that he could probably use some guidance on
<jgrimm> i believe kickinz1_ is EOD and not feeling well today either
 * jgrimm looks at blueprint again for things to poke at
<jgrimm> nacc: logwatch? i believe you told me upstream released, so you are unblocked.
<rbasak> nacc is blocked on my review :-/
<rbasak> I think it's ready, IIRC.
<rbasak> However it is not FF critical. Bugfixes only. So I haven't looked yet.
<jgrimm> i guess another thing to mention is that we have a new community packager that is working on docker.  already has a ppa for our review.  rharper and mwhudson are providing feedback
<nacc> jgrimm: rbasak: right, not super urgent, relative to the other packages right now
<jgrimm> rharper, do you have link to tianon's ppa?
<jgrimm> nacc, rbasak: thanks! agreed
<jgrimm> #action jgrimm to update/clean up blueprint
<meetingology> ACTION: jgrimm to update/clean up blueprint
<rharper> jgrimm: yes: https://launchpad.net/~docker/+archive/ubuntu/experimental
<jgrimm> rharper, thanks.  hopefully we are on track for having docker ready for upload by friday
<jgrimm> anything else to discuss general xenial wise?
<smb> I want to make sure bug 1551351 on the release tracking radar. Upstream
<smb> (mgilbert) was said to be working on some fix this weekend.
<ubottu> bug 1551351 in isc-dhcp (Ubuntu Xenial) "dhclient does not renew leases" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1551351
 * jgrimm switches topics
<jgrimm> #subtopic Release Bugs
<jgrimm> smb, do you think there needs to be some specific assistance?
<smb> jgrimm, lamont said he might be looking at the result of upstream.
<smb> I need to ping him later
<jgrimm> smb, ok, reach out to me if needing some help
<smb> Just to be aware that ifupdown systems have no working dhclient right now
<smb> ok will do
<jgrimm> ugh. yeah that's bad
<jgrimm> thanks smb
<jgrimm> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<caribou> nothing to report, sir
<jgrimm> caribou, thanks!
<dsmythies> bug 1517746 , originally solved in December, has returned. bug 1551351 should be set to critical
<ubottu> bug 1517746 in debian-installer (Ubuntu) "Selecting and install software fails on ubnutu server xenial" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1517746
<ubottu> bug 1551351 in isc-dhcp (Ubuntu Xenial) "dhclient does not renew leases" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1551351
<jgrimm> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
<jgrimm> moving on as matsubara isn't here
<jgrimm> though i know he has a todo to improve the pep8 test in open-iscsi
<jgrimm> on his plate
<jgrimm> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<smb> From the kernel side I believe there is nothing to bring up. Or does
<smb> someone have anything to bring up?
<jgrimm> i don't have anything
<jgrimm> thanks smb
<jgrimm> smb, does kernel team handle kerneloops package?  looks like it hasn't been merged from debian in a long while
<smb> jgrimm, we touched it probably at some point but I am not sure we really look after it that much
<jgrimm> 134 days. colin touched it last, but thought i'd ask if your team ever looks after it as kernel related-ish
<smb> jgrimm, let me take that as an action to clarify
<jgrimm> smb, that would be great.  would love to see updated if we can get that yet.
<jgrimm> smb, thank you very much
<jgrimm> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<jgrimm> not seeing much on lwn CFP calendar at least
<jgrimm> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<jgrimm> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<jgrimm> anyone??
<jgrimm> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<jgrimm> next meeting will be Tuesday 2016-03-15 at 1600 UTC - #ubuntu-meeting   matsubara will remain chair
<jgrimm> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Mar  8 16:44:58 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-03-08-16.08.moin.txt
<jgrimm> thanks all!
<caribou> thanks jgrimm!
<nacc> jgrimm: thanks!
<serge_> o/
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-03-10
<EX-Ploit>  
<pitti> o/
<barry> \o
<cyphermox> o/
<sil2100> \o
<caribou> o/
<cyphermox> don't break our choreography! ;)
<ogra_> the weekly foundations yoga club !
<pitti> cyphermox: argh, you broke the pattern
 * pitti didn't dare to start
<pitti> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Mar 10 16:01:34 2016 UTC.  The chair is pitti. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<cyphermox> no i didn't, just line noise
* pitti changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: lightning round
<pitti> shuf: cyphermox chiluk barry sil2100 caribou robru pitti bdmurray tdaitx doko infinity xnox slangasek
<xnox> ahhh meeting.
<cyphermox> is that the result?
<pitti> yep
<cyphermox> oh!
<sil2100> oooh, I see pitti is intruoducing changes to the shuf process
<pitti> I was just optimizing away one line..
<cyphermox> pitti: you're the one doing things all different, usually slangasek starts by echoing commands!
<cyphermox> MIR:
<cyphermox> - reviewing python-csscompressor (bug LP: #1554543)
<cyphermox> - reviewing python-rcssmin (bug LP: #1554543)
<cyphermox> - reviewing python-rjsmin (bug LP: #1554543)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1554543 in python-rjsmin (Ubuntu) "[MIR] python-rcssmin python-rjsmin python-csscompressor" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1554543
<cyphermox> xenial:
<cyphermox> - NetworkManager update to 1.2 - packaging and testing
<cyphermox> - debugging upgrade crash w/ davmor2
<cyphermox> - grub2 efi dkms upgrade path
<cyphermox>  - investigating upgrade bug 1553870 "True" entries in sources (bug LP: #1553870)
<ubottu> bug 1553870 in apt-clone (Ubuntu) "apt sources contain "True" entries after upgrade to xenial" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1553870
<cyphermox>   - fixed apt-clone parameters
<cyphermox> - merging network-manager-applet with Debian 1.1.91
<cyphermox> - network-manager-applet appindicator update
<cyphermox> - partman-auto bump /boot size to 512M (bug LP: #1465050)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1465050 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Xenial) "Size of /boot partition is too small" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1465050
<cyphermox>  - refreshing/updating nm-applet patches
<cyphermox> - testing grub2 dkms mokutil code
<cyphermox> Â±other stuff:
<cyphermox>  - discuss ubiquity future features w/ seb
<cyphermox> - investigating os-prober warnings (bug LP: #1553181)
<cyphermox> - packaging tpm2-tools & tpm2-tss
<cyphermox> - testing WPA-Enterprise w/ NM 1.2-beta2
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1553181 in os-prober (Ubuntu) "ISST-LTE: pVM: warning message showed in dmesg after update-grub" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1553181
<cyphermox>  - upstreaming debootstrap inrelease support
<cyphermox> - upstreaming partman-iscsi/open-iscsi initiatorName fixes
<cyphermox> (âdone â)
<barry> chiluk: ?
<chiluk> ah sorry guys.
<pitti> chiluk: want to go later?
<pitti> (just pass the baton to barry)
<chiluk> still got an upload for bug 1535349 ... still waiting for SRU approval.  Perhaps cyphermox will be able to look at that.
<ubottu> bug 1535349 in coreutils (Ubuntu Trusty) "`df /dev/sda1` no longer reports information for /dev/sda1" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1535349
<cyphermox> chiluk: looking at it right now
<chiluk> aside from that, I will be working other things for the next month or so..
<chiluk> I'll jump in when I have something to contribute foundationsy..
<chiluk> -done-
<barry> LP: #1552868; LP: #1554547
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1552868 in system-config-printer (Ubuntu) "Demote python3-smbc to a Suggests" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1552868
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1554547 in Ubuntu Push Notifications "Replace deprecated Info() method with Information() for system-image-dbus" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1554547
<barry> python-pip 8.0.3-3, 8.1.0-1, 8.1.0-2
<barry> python-virtualenv 14.0.5+ds-5, 14.0.5+ds-6, 15.0.0+ds-1, 15.0.0+ds-2
<barry> python-colorama 0.3.7-1
<barry> pycurl 7.43.0-1
<barry> patches submitted for python3.5 -m venv (awaiting doko's return)
<barry> review https://code.launchpad.net/~xnox/germinate/+git/germinate/+merge/285180
<barry> system-image 3.1 boarded the train
<pitti> barry: py3-smbc wants to go to universe now, is that ok?
<barry> error tracker sprint prep
<barry> --done--
<sil2100> o/
<sil2100> - Crazy week: sickness, new apartment, ISP switches, unboxing stuff
<sil2100> - Landing team work, silo coordination, preparing landing e-mails
<sil2100> - RTM Status meetings
<sil2100> - Manta device deprecation:
<sil2100>   * Removed manta from our cdimage and livecd-rootfs build scripts
<sil2100>   * Requested the removal of linux-manta (anyone objecting please comment on LP: #1554145)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1554145 in linux-manta (Ubuntu) "Please remove linux-manta from the archives" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1554145
<sil2100>   * Informed ubports about the removal plans
<sil2100> - Clicks for unreleased frameworks
<sil2100>   * Meetings about potential solutions, look into a staging store for rc-proposed
<barry> pitti: interesting.  let's talk after lightnings
<sil2100>   * Implementing temporary workaround in click-sync, allowing manual click locking
<sil2100>   * Look into how hard it would be to slightly snappify clicks to use channels in store
<sil2100> - Fixing devel-proposed touch builds
<sil2100> - Importing re-spins of OTA-9.5 for frieza
<sil2100> - More system-image work on turbo enablement
<sil2100> - Getting back to debugging the appmenu-qt5 bug with no-keyboard-shortcuts
<sil2100> - Testing and poking on the touch emulator fixes
<sil2100> (done)
<caribou> Bugfix :
<caribou>  - Juniper's contrail kernel panic
<caribou>    Need to forward to Juniper for further analysis
<caribou>  - mstflint4 package for Trusty/Wily
<caribou>    Reviewed by infinity. New packages are good to go
<caribou>    Got a few final question for infinity before uploading xenial's mstflint
<caribou>  Development work:
<caribou>  - crash fails on kernel after 4.4
<caribou>    Uploaded new crash (LP: #1555244)
<caribou>  - Kernel crash dump Enablement on s390x (LP: #1555159)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1555244 in crash (Ubuntu) "crash fails to load with 4.4+ kernels" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1555244
<caribou>    First test successful. Need to enable crashkernel= or
<ubottu> Error: Could not gather data from Launchpad for bug #1555159 (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1555159). The error has been logged
<caribou>    define it systematically
<caribou>  - Few sponsored uploads
<caribou>  A colleague is suggesting to add apport support to containers : LP: #1555698)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1555698 in Apport "Apport doesn't forward crashes on containers." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1555698
<caribou> pitti: you might want to comment on ^^
<caribou> â Done
<pitti> caribou: done
<pitti> caribou: (as of two weeks ago)
<robru> lp:bileto ephemeral ppas / jenkins replacement marches on
<robru> * started using asyncio coroutines to parallelize source package merges / builds (sped up one test silo build from 66 minutes to 6 minutes)
<robru> * got merge-based builds working
<robru> * hooked up existing build / upload / diff / swift logic into new architecture
<robru> * switched gunicorn3 from synchronous workers to gevent async workers for streaming HTTP requests
<robru> * got manual sources working in new architecture
<robru> * got dual silos working in new architecture
<robru> * implemented cache for generated html files.
<robru> (done)
<caribou> pitti: got a bug number for this so I can mark this one as dup ?
<pitti> caribou: I'll follow up after meeting
<caribou> pitti: k
<sil2100> robru: \o/
<pitti> autopkgtest:
<pitti>  - Add support for nested QEMU to adt-virt-aqmu (export outer base image into inner QEMU)
<pitti>  - Add additional CPU information (#1552129)
<pitti>  - Adjust nova setup script to python-novaclient v2 API to work on xenial (#1552730)
<pitti>  - Correctly ignore build profiles when running on trusty
<pitti>  - Discuss more efficient AppArmor handling with click tests with Omer (#1553797)
<pitti>  - Fix race condition in QEMU runner's connectivity test
<pitti>  - Keep $ADTTMP in debug shells (#814115)
<pitti>  - Some small improvements to adt-virt-lxc
<pitti> distro:
<pitti>  - lxc: Investigate another lxc-attach regression (#1553097)
<pitti>  - merges: init-system-helpers, util-linux
<pitti>  - systemd: Fix race conditions in boot-and-services test
<pitti>  - Remove obsolete X.org drivers including fglrx, adjust ubuntu-drivers-common tests
<pitti>  - Some wxwidgets2.8 and gstreamer0.10 rdepends cleanup
<pitti>  - spent half a day on process-removals, cleaning (some)/weeping over (way too much) Ubuntu specific cruft
<pitti> misc:
<pitti>  - Discussions/meetings about Juju 1 vs. 2 and mongodb support/packaging in xenial
<pitti>  - 2 days sick :/ (but mostly well again)
<pitti> (done)
<bdmurray> worked with webops regarding migration of error tracker to PS4.5
<bdmurray> resolved bug with retracer.py handling of the failed queue
<bdmurray> mojo spec work (exiting if no cassandra username or password)
<bdmurray> discussion with stub regarding dse database
<bdmurray> test rebuild of bucket counters on real cassandra database
<bdmurray> error tracker sprint preparations
<bdmurray> research into / fixed LP: #1551929 (alt CD upgrade)
<bdmurray> discussion with mvo re: LP: #1550741
<bdmurray> created a vm for running cassandra queries
<bdmurray> foundations bug triage
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1551929 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Wily) "Cannot upgrade to 15.10 using alternate AMD64 ISO" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1551929
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1550741 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "Upgrade failed - unauthenticated package (module-init-tools)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1550741
<bdmurray> â done
<tdaitx> * TCK 7:
<tdaitx>   - Cleaned up a few runtime errors/failures (agent still failing though)
<tdaitx>   - Running interactive tests
<tdaitx> * TCK 8:
<tdaitx>   - Starting up tests for OpenJDK 8 in Xenial
<tdaitx> (done)
<tdaitx> xnox: doko and infinity are out, go ahead
<xnox> ack.
<xnox> * Uploads: genwqe (new), libica (point release), zfcp-hbaapi(new), fixes - console-setup for s390x - silence bogus things, sosreport enable s390x plugin, cloud-utils SRU s390x arch, a bunch of installer merges for bugfixes (sysconfig, s390-dasd, s390-netdevice, s390-tools)
<xnox> * zfcp-hbaapi -> stuck in binary new. AA please review binary new, maybe stgraber?
<xnox> * addressed https://code.launchpad.net/~xnox/germinate/+git/germinate/+merge/285180, should be merged? cjwatson?
<xnox> * got juju2 fix merged for s390x, still fighting with out of memory with juju2
<xnox> * deploying services on s390x, ported percona-galera-3 on s390x (trivial arch fix)
<xnox> * s390x autopkgtest stats: 3088/2648 pass (84.65%)
<xnox> * s390x product bugs: 44 done + 9 incomplete/invalid out of 78 total
<xnox> * preparing for final beta milestone.
<xnox> ..
<pitti> thanks
<pitti> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<pitti> sil2100: OOI, how well does the emulator run these days?
<pitti> sil2100: it sometimes worked very well, then it had been broken for months due to some broken -gles dependency, etc.
<pitti> sil2100: can we at some point make this a primary target for train MPs, to avoid breaking it over and over?
<pitti> sil2100: (you mentioned some emulator fixes in your report)
<pitti> any other questions, just go
<sil2100> pitti: right now it works hm, better, still problematic but at least you can do touch events and open apps
<sil2100> pitti: since it was busted completely as the input events were off for mouse, so you couldn't go pass the wizard
<bdmurray> pitti: when we were migrating to PS4.5 I noticed some arm64 crashes waiting to retrace.  Would you expect retracing of them to work?
<pitti> bdmurray: I never tried so far; the LP retracers don't have an arm64 confnig
<sil2100> pitti: we want to start putting more pressure on it once again, but you know how it is, we'd have to put a lot serious work to get it into stable enough state to make it a primary target for MPs
<sil2100> And there's so many other devices we need to concentrate on
<sil2100> Not enough manpower sadly
<pitti> bdmurray: we can add one and see how far it goes, but no idea if that will just create nonsense or something useful
<pitti> sil2100: ah; this still appears to be a major hindrance for doing devel work
 * pitti is seriously missing dual-boot :(
<bdmurray> pitti: Okay, I'll rescue the cores from swift so we can test them out.
<sil2100> Yeah, right now the recommended answers for devs is: buy a phone
<sil2100> ;p
<sil2100> Which is a bit sad
<pitti> caribou: followed up to bug 1555698
<ubottu> bug 1445064 in apport (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1555698 Re-implement container crash forwarding" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1445064
<caribou> pitti: thanks!
<pitti> any other topics/
<pitti> ?
<pitti> bdmurray: looking forward to the sprint next week (this time healthy, I hope :) )
<barry> indeed :)
<bdmurray> I don't think we can delay any more since the boss man is coming back.
<pitti> PHEAR
<pitti> ok, thanks everyone!
<pitti> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Mar 10 16:21:41 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-03-10-16.01.moin.txt
<barry> pitti: thanks!
<caribou> pitti: thanks!
<robru> pitti: oops I'm too late, but i will soon be working on how the train handles gles
<robru> pitti: with a focus on increasing ease of automation / keeping gles in sync
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-03-06
<tyhicks> hello
<mdeslaur> \o
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Mar  6 16:31:39 2017 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<tyhicks> Jeremy Bicha (jbicha) provided debdiffs for xenial-yakkety for iio-sensor-proxy (LP: #1666358)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1666358 in iio-sensor-proxy (Ubuntu Yakkety) "iio-sensor-proxy: Insecure configuration of dbus service" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1666358
<tyhicks> Vishnu Naini (visred) provided debdiffs for xenial-yakkety for kde4libs and kio (LP: #1668871)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1668871 in kde4libs (Ubuntu Trusty) "kio: Information Leak when accessing https when using a malicious PAC file" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1668871
<tyhicks> Thank you for your assistance in keeping Ubuntu users secure! :)
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
 * mdeslaur poked jdstrand with sharp stick
<mdeslaur> meh, I'll go
<mdeslaur> I'm in the happy place this week
<tyhicks> thanks
<mdeslaur> I'm currently working on an embargoed issue
<mdeslaur> and I have imagemagick updates to test and release
<mdeslaur> if I have time left over, I need to do the gigantic apache2 backport
<mdeslaur> that's about it
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: tag
<sbeattie> I'm on community this week
<sbeattie> I have one embargoed issue partially on my plate and may have a second, pending discussion
<jdstrand> sorry, hard crash due to intel driver issue
<tyhicks> jdstrand: bummer - you can go next after Steve
<sbeattie> I'm also working on glibc updates
<sbeattie> after that I'll look at the list of updates needed
<sbeattie> that's pretty much it for me. jdstrand?
<jdstrand> short week (off thursday, back friday, off next week)
<jdstrand> last week I did a bunch of reviews, did some simple policy updates and continued on netlink mediation as part of seccomp arg filtering (phase 1 PR is up for review). Note that all seccomp arg filtering branches are blocked on a PR for something called snap-confine reexec. I'm just allowing them to queue up and following up with the snappy team on that PR
<jdstrand> This week I plan to:
<jdstrand> review tools updates for recent issues
<jdstrand> PR and store reviews
<jdstrand> more policy updates, especially surrounding mir on dragonboard (some issues were reported on this that I need to look into)
<jdstrand> continue with seccomp arg filtering (eg, continue 'users and groups' PR and phase 2 netlink mediation) as have time
<jdstrand> that's it for me
<tyhicks> I'm on bug triage this week
<tyhicks> Jamie and I (mostly Jamie) came up with a good design for a technical blocker of the seccomp patches
<tyhicks> I need to propose that to upstream and start working on a new patch to implement the feature
<tyhicks> I still have a design review to do
<tyhicks> and I have 1-2 embargoed issues
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<tyhicks> he may not be around
<tyhicks> sarnold: go ahead
<sarnold> I'm on cve triage this week
<sarnold> I'd very much like to finish up the shadow usn and lasso mir
<sarnold> and probably some patch reviwes
<sarnold> that's it for me, chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> I've got a firefox update to do this week
<chrisccoulson> I also need to get thunderbird ready
<chrisccoulson> I made a start revewing one of the big oxide merge proposals last week, and I need to finish that
<chrisccoulson> Also, I need to get cargo bootstrapped everywhere, but that's slightly more difficult than I anticipated
<chrisccoulson> other than that, I'll be working on oxide stuff as usual
<chrisccoulson> that's me done
<ratliff> I'm in the happy place this week
<ratliff> I'll be looking at the notification task some more
<ratliff> I have a variety of internal tasks (sizings, etc) to do
<ratliff> If I have additional time, I'll continue working on updates for vivid based core and touch
<ratliff> back to you tyhicks
<tyhicks> thanks!
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> oops
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> wut
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/midgard2-core.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libquicktime.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/steam.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gpw.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/revelation.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson, ratliff: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Mar  6 16:51:57 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-03-06-16.31.moin.txt
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks!
<mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks
<ratliff> thank you tyhicks!
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks!
<jdstrand> thanks tyhicks :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-03-07
<dal_> Having a lot of trouble getting cairo-dock/glx-dock to do what I want to do - I like everything about the quick browser plugin other than that if I click on a directory in it it opens that directory in gwenview (?) and if I click a video file it launches in smplayer. These associations don't line up with my current desktop environment or any other currently installed on my machine and there's no mention of either application in the
<dal_> .conf files for the quick browser plugin or cairo-dock as a whole under ~/.config. Is anyone able to give me an idea where cairo-dock might be getting these associations from?
<nacc> dal_: wrong channel?
<dal_> what's the right one?
<dal_> cairo-dock is in the ubuntu repositories, that's where I got it from
<powersj> o/
<jgrimm> o/
<cpaelzer> hiho
<cpaelzer> o/
<cpaelzer> I think I'm the one that has to pull up the cheat sheet today
 * cpaelzer opening KB
<powersj> yar
<cpaelzer> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Mar  7 16:01:45 2017 UTC.  The chair is cpaelzer. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<nacc> o/
<cpaelzer> ok, seo helle overybody - lets start as usual with
<rharper> o/
<cpaelzer> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<caribou> \o
<rbasak> o/
<cpaelzer> first was "ACTION: nacc to ping release team on removing src:postgresql-9.6 and src:php7.1"
<cpaelzer> nacc: I know about one of them
<cpaelzer> could you elaborate on both?
<nacc> both are done
<cpaelzer> yay
<smoser> o/
<nacc> well, the first by migrating postgresql-9.6 in
<nacc> so 'done', albeit differently than the action ;)
<cpaelzer> ok, so the next one would be powersj
<cpaelzer> ACTION: powersj to see about getting the lxd team onto torkoal
<powersj> done
<cpaelzer> yay#2
<powersj> stgraber helped clean things up
<cpaelzer> I remember
<jgrimm> any idea how it got so borked up?
<cpaelzer> powersj: do we already have an understanding how it could happen?
<jgrimm> :)
<powersj> jumping between versions of lxd and not cleaning everything up
<cpaelzer> I happen to know that it can break without that
<cpaelzer> but
<powersj> true :)
<cpaelzer> I'm fine to ait until it happens
<cpaelzer> "wait" rather
<powersj> and we did see that one failure, and then it went away
<cpaelzer> ok, thank you powersj
<cpaelzer> for now all are unblocked and the action is done
<cpaelzer> number 3: ACTION: rbasak, powersj, cpaelzer to draft mysql triage response page like nginx has
<cpaelzer> I did nothing, did anybody start on that?
<powersj> nope... sorry
<cpaelzer> rbasak: ?
<cpaelzer> lets take that as a no and keep the action for next week as well
<cpaelzer> #ACTION: rbasak, powersj, cpaelzer to draft mysql triage response page like nginx has
<meetingology> ACTION: : rbasak, powersj, cpaelzer to draft mysql triage response page like nginx has
<rbasak> I haven't started on it, sorry. Please carry forward.
<cpaelzer> #topic Zesty Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Zesty Development
<cpaelzer> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZestyZapus/ReleaseSchedule
<cpaelzer> anything general before we go to blueprint and bugs?
<jgrimm> i don't have anything
<cpaelzer> ... well I have :-)
<jgrimm> go for it
<cpaelzer> fyi - if you happen to be blocked on ppc based test verification fails based on encryption
<cpaelzer> (as I was)
<cpaelzer> consider checking if it could be the following bug
<cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1670311
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1666483 in linux (Ubuntu Zesty) "duplicate for #1670311 ecryptfs fails to load block cipher on ppc64el " [Undecided,Fix committed]
<cpaelzer> TL;DR various crypto options fail with current 4.10 kernel
<cpaelzer> but fix is known and enqueued
<jgrimm> interesting. thanks
<cpaelzer> so no need to bother the kernel Team more than I already did
<cpaelzer> btw kernel Team, pinging smb for later
<cpaelzer> #subtopic blueprints
<cpaelzer> #https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-z-server-core
<cpaelzer> #link #https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-z-server-core
<cpaelzer> I saw some updates there
<cpaelzer> #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-z-server-core
<cpaelzer> any of those calls should do :-/
<cpaelzer> is there anything big outstanding that one wants to discuss?
<rbasak> Remember to keep up the meetingology commentary to save writing minutes later.
<cpaelzer> I take this as a no, and will go on
<cpaelzer> thanks, true
<cpaelzer> #info blueprint looks good, no active major items outstanding
<jgrimm> indeed, very happy with how much we got done this cycle. and jumping on it early
<cpaelzer> #info cpaelzer gave an FYI on a ppc64el crypto bug in 4.10 that might block dep8 tests
<cpaelzer> #subtopic Release Bugs
<cpaelzer> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-z-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<cpaelzer> I can say that I submitted a pack of new versions - DPDK (Stable release), New Qemu (CVE/Log fix), Libvirt (device format, apparmor for virt-manager)
<cpaelzer> anything on the list of open issues you want to go into?
<cpaelzer> any majore bvugfix uploads to zesty happened last week?
<cpaelzer> wow typo-master 2000
<cpaelzer> I heard rharper and smoser talk about bug 1670481 yesterday
<ubottu> Error: Could not gather data from Launchpad for bug #1670481 (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1670481). The error has been logged
<cpaelzer> which is on that list
<cpaelzer> I triaged and started the discussion with IBM
<cpaelzer> but I think it might be an SRU deadlock
<rharper> cpaelzer: +1
<cpaelzer> either it is important enough to be an SRU, but then it changes behaviour and does not qualify
<cpaelzer> or not ...
<jgrimm> has upstream accepted it?
<rharper> I don't think so
<cpaelzer> upstream accepted
<rharper> it's just a patch at this point
<rharper> really?
<cpaelzer> it is in 2.9
 * rharper goes home
<cpaelzer> so we have forward order up to qemu 2.4
<jgrimm> ok, i was going to be -1 if it wasn't upstream
<cpaelzer> 2.5-2.8 reverse
<cpaelzer> and then forward again
<rharper> well, let's just say that the churn will hopefully encourage folks to not rely on it
<cpaelzer> that for sure
<cpaelzer> and I'm ok pulling into zesty (as a pre-2.9)
<cpaelzer> but SRU they have to be pretty convincing
<cpaelzer> not yet
<rharper> right
<jgrimm> ack
<cpaelzer> #info cpaelzer elaborated on the pro/con of bug 1670481
<ubottu> Error: Could not gather data from Launchpad for bug #1670481 (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1670481). The error has been logged
<cpaelzer> #info no other "big issues" on there for now
<cpaelzer> #info zesty fix uploads to dpdk, qemu, libvirt last week
<jgrimm> was is that lookup failing?
<cpaelzer> anything else?
<jgrimm> ubottu you are failing us
<ubottu> jgrimm: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<cpaelzer> jgrimm: sometimes it fails
<jgrimm> :)
<cpaelzer> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (caribou)
<cpaelzer> caribou: your time
<cpaelzer> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-x-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<caribou> Here are the SRU we're looking ata :
<caribou> #info STS SRU are pending for :sssd, gtk+3.0, nfs-utils, multipath-tools, sosreport, tftp-hpa
<cpaelzer> thanks, I also sponsored a libvirt (trusty) one from STS
<cpaelzer> also nacc you might be happy to hear that I tested and finally sponsored that azure fix into xenial
<rbasak> I've just been looking at tftp-hpa for you caribou, but I started with wanting a git tree to do diffs and the import is failing. I'm currently in that rabbithole :)
<cpaelzer> waiting for the SRU tema
<nacc> cpaelzer: ah excellent! Odd_Bloke will be happy :)
<Odd_Bloke> \o/
<cpaelzer> anything else for caribou or in-Release SRUs ?
<caribou> rbasak: good thanks. why don't you diff the src pkg ?
<cpaelzer> #info rbasak looking into tftp-hpa currently, but git import is blocked
<rbasak> caribou: I can do that, sure. But then I have to fetch things I want to diff against piecemeal. Using git everything is easier :-)
<rbasak> If I can't fix it soon, then sure I'll do it by hand.
<caribou> rbasak: indeed
<cpaelzer> ok, moving on to powersj then
<cpaelzer> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
<cpaelzer> #link https://jenkins.ubuntu.com/server/
<powersj> Debug lots of test failures last week, bit of curtin vmtest development for daily tests, and got test systems back to sane status. All tests were green over the weekend. Trusty ppc64el ISO testing is also now functional.
<powersj> If I get access to staging.launchpad.net I want to work on auto landing for curtin and cloud-init. Untill then I have a few jenkins test related items I need to clean up, look into cloud-init to understand more about how setup.py is setup, as well as triage today and some bug work.
<powersj> And as of yesterday, we finally have cloud-init ci tests up and running again \o/
<cpaelzer> powersj: gz
<cpaelzer> powersj: was the debugging to debug the tests or test-env, or into issues they uncovered?
<jgrimm> powersj, \o/
<powersj> cpaelzer: mix of both, we had the lxd issues, which I filed two bugs against lxd and got fixes for, but also the system getting borked
<cpaelzer> ok powersj
<powersj> plus downreving lxd found some issues with our curtin vmtest daily job, so had to fix those up withsmoser
<cpaelzer> getting better every time
<powersj> yes time to go break more stuff then and write more tests ;)
<jgrimm> it should also be noted that the ppc64el ISO testing is Not Yet gating.  That is next.
<cpaelzer> fyi I also experimented with avocado a bit (qemu testing) but that is unessesarily complex for what you want to do
<cpaelzer> so not jumping on it right now
<powersj> that was my assessment as well :)
<cpaelzer> #info powersj fixed a lot of issues, most tests are green again
<cpaelzer> #info cloud-init and curtin tests up and running again
<cpaelzer> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
<smb> Not much to report. The bcache naming should be fixed soonish (or maybe has) there was something cpaelzer had which I forgot about.
<rharper> \o.
<rharper> smb: thans
<cpaelzer> smb: I reported on the ase-xts thing before
 * rharper 's keyboard needs a new battery 
<cpaelzer> Oh that is a good excuse rharper
<cpaelzer> mine too
<rharper> hehe
 * cpaelzer has no keyboards with batteries
<smb> cpaelzer, oh that... think I saw other people of the team being aware
<cpaelzer> great
 * rbasak keeps his keyboard in the same place, and it has a cord :-)
<cpaelzer> #info bcache issues fixed soonish (blocked some server related work)
<rbasak> This approach does make for a desk covered in cables though :-/
<cpaelzer> I can't choke people without - and I want to so do so often
<cpaelzer> maybe it is good to be in home office :-P
<cpaelzer> anyway, back to business
<nacc> dark
<cpaelzer> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<cpaelzer> #link https://lwn.net/Calendar/Monthly/cfp/
<cpaelzer> anything else anybody which is worth to be mentioned here?
<cpaelzer> #info no CFPs to consider at the moment
<cpaelzer> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<cpaelzer> nothing scheduled soon I'd know about
<jgrimm> ditto
<cpaelzer> jgrimm: do we have anything I forget?
<cpaelzer> ach you were fast
<cpaelzer> ok
<jgrimm> :)
<cpaelzer> #info no events scheduled
<cpaelzer> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<cpaelzer> release all you have held back
<nacc> i had a thought for something we could do to encourage community participation
<nacc> we just crested 400 bugs in the backlog
<nacc> i'd like to propose on the ML a monthly bug-squashing day
<nacc> on #ubuntu-server, esp. to get community folk who are interested in taking bitesize
<cpaelzer> nacc: I think the day would be great
<rbasak> That's a great idea.
<powersj> +1
<nacc> we can walk folks through using the git tree(s), submitting bugs, asking for sponsorship (and we'd have several of us available throughout the day for that )
<cpaelzer> nacc: yet we have to consider the usual can of worms to track that to completion
<nacc> of course, but I think the benefit might outweigh it -- and i fear we are too afraid of that and now there is no community participation
<cpaelzer> we should just plan at least for us to have the time for that post work
<nacc> except for filing more and more bugs that we never get to :/
<cpaelzer> nacc: oh I'm clearly +1
<jgrimm> do you think you want to get people pre-signed up?  or just randomly show up?
<nacc> jgrimm: i think unstructured at first. I think people can subscribe to bugs if they want, and can bring them up in the channel.
<nacc> jgrimm: my plan in my e-mail was to specifically call out server-next and bitesize as tags
<jgrimm> np, we can learn as we go too
<nacc> i think they are not well broadcasted currently
<nacc> or maybe they were, but it's been a while, etc.
<nacc> and the contributions can even just be helping with testing in various enviroments
<nacc> which teaches people how to use lxd, kvm, etc.
<nacc> (uvtool...)
<nacc> i think all of which is beneficial for both our team and our product(s)
<jgrimm> so one thing that sort of came up with rbasak is that given where we are at in the cycle.. some valid fixes, we may still want to hold off on until the beginning of next cycle.. so think about what to do with those type of fixes
<nacc> right, i'm assuming most people in this context can't upload
<jgrimm> ^^ in context to sponsorship day he floated a couple week ago
<nacc> but yeah
<cpaelzer> #info nacc proposed the idea of a community wide monthly bug-squash day
<cpaelzer> ok to go on for today?
<nacc> yep
<cpaelzer> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<cpaelzer> nacc: will be next weeks chair
<cpaelzer> nacc: ok ?
<nacc> cpaelzer: ack
<cpaelzer> next tuesday is 14th of march
<cpaelzer> see you all here then
<cpaelzer> #info next chair on 14th march will be nacc
<cpaelzer> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Mar  7 16:37:51 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-03-07-16.01.moin.txt
<powersj> thanks cpaelzer
<nacc> cpaelzer: thanks!
<cpaelzer> rbasak: I missed that in the past - what is the command to get fromt he txt log to html log?
<cpaelzer> I assume there is a tool or similar to do so
<rbasak> cpaelzer: I just tweak the extension. s/moin.txt/html/
<cpaelzer> rbasak: thanks
<cpaelzer> rbasak: other than the triple action it is good
<cpaelzer> rbasak: and we are three people, so that is somewhat fine :-)
<rbasak> Yeah it's a bit weird how it handles actions
<cpaelzer> I just would have expected some feeback on my action setting
<cpaelzer> but it is good
<rbasak> It doesn't know who has the action, so lists against all mentioned nicks, which I don't find particularly helpful.
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-03-09
<barry> o/
<caribou> \o
<chiluk> o\
<sil2100> o/
<barry> slangasek: are you here today?
<slangasek> barry: ish! :)
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Mar  9 16:03:07 2017 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox tdaitx xnox chiluk mwhudson)
<slangasek> xnox robru barry cyphermox sil2100 caribou bdmurray infinity slangasek tdaitx doko chiluk mwhudson
<xnox> resolving softlayer boot issues;
<xnox> s390x bug triange - everything incomplete/ nothing new;
<xnox> rackspace images...
<xnox> done
<robru> * short week due to illness
<robru> * some iterations on britney email policy code review
<robru> (done)
<barry> u-i: LP: #1625732; review & test GH#123 for LP: #1655671; LP: #1638645 (but there appears to be a bug in snapcraft)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1625732 in Ubuntu Image "Add DEP-8 image boot test" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1625732
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1655671 in Ubuntu Image "Add a tox test to ensure every pull request has a d/changelog entry" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1655671
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1638645 in Ubuntu Image "Make ubuntu-image a classic snap" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1638645
<barry> (it takes ~6m for the inner qemu's network to get initialized on the autopkgtest.u.c. infra!)
<barry> other: pycon planning (language summit)
<barry> --done--
<sil2100> cyphermox: ^
<bdmurray> sil2100: why don't we skip him for now.
<cyphermox> ahah
<cyphermox> sorry
<sil2100> ..!
<cyphermox> zesty:
<cyphermox>  - os-prober: unbreak non-crypto LVM installs by skipping LVM2_member while probing (bug LP: #1664731)
<cyphermox>  - nm-applet: cherry-picked fix for Gir to enable calling WifiDialog from python (bug LP: #1667129)
<cyphermox>  - reviewing WPA-enterprise support patches for ubiquity network dialog
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1664731 in os-prober (Ubuntu Zesty) "zesty lvm install hangs while creating device mapper device" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1664731
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1667129 in Network Manager Applet "Python cannot create NMGtkWifiDialog" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1667129
<cyphermox> netplan:
<cyphermox>  - merge forward-definition
<cyphermox>  - merge stp support, with fixed autopkgtests
<cyphermox>  - release 0.19
<cyphermox> other:
<cyphermox>  - debugging multipath-tools issues at boot
<cyphermox>  - livecd-rootfs: setting up test rootfs for subiquity testing
<cyphermox>  - more MaaS headache with rescue mode.
<cyphermox>  - finish snapping up subiquity
<cyphermox> (done)
<sil2100> - Landing team work, silo coordination
<sil2100> - SRU reviews
<sil2100> - Kernel SRU reviews
<sil2100> - Working on walinuxagent lintian cleanness
<sil2100> - ubuntu-image:
<sil2100>   * Reviewing barry's ubuntu-image boot test pull request, yaaay
<sil2100>   * Finishing the changelog-for-PR branch
<sil2100> - Looking into system-image disk usage, cleaning up old builds
<sil2100> (done)
<caribou> LP #1654600 : unattended-upgrades breaks shutdown when /var is FS
<caribou>  - Incomplete solution uploaded as SRU. verification-failed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1654600 in unattended-upgrades (Debian) "unattended-upgrade-shutdown hangs when /var is a separate filesystem" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1654600
<caribou> - May have identified root cause & working on a fix
<caribou>  - Will need proof reading from Foundation on this one
<caribou>  LP: #1342580 - tftp does not start if NIC is down
<caribou>  - Uploaded fix to Z, preparing SRU to T, X & Y
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1342580 in tftp-hpa (Ubuntu Yakkety) "tftpd-hpa doesn't start on boot" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1342580
<caribou> Meetings
<caribou> sosreport & gtimelog snap development
<caribou> â Done
<bdmurray> caribou: that tftp-hpa is this a divergence from what debian is going to do? it doesn't seem to be fixed in debian at all and the discussion seems quite um active
<bdmurray> fixed even more issues with the retracers-cache-restart script
<bdmurray> merged apport gdb sandbox changes to retracer branch
<bdmurray> had apport updated in staging Error Tracker
<bdmurray> emailed snappy team regarding systemd timers
<bdmurray> investigation into / fixing of LP: #1654008
<bdmurray> sent PSA re sru-report showing uploaders
<bdmurray> discovered issues with purge-old-kernels script
<bdmurray> foundations bug triage
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1654008 in update-notifier (Ubuntu Zesty) "/usr/bin/update-manager:OverflowError:/usr/bin/update-manager@117" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1654008
<bdmurray> tested subiquity again
<barry> caribou: gtimelog snap... \o/
<bdmurray> â done
<caribou> bdmurray: not diverging but part of the disucssion seems to agree on using :69 instead of [::]:69
<caribou> bdmurray: they've split the original bug in two bugs as I recall
<bdmurray> caribou: is there a reason to fix it now and not wait for debian?
<caribou> bdmurray: yes, we have a customer who's hit by that on all their servers
<slangasek> no infinity today
<caribou> bdmurray: & 37 other people mentionned being impacted by the issue on the LP bug
<slangasek>  * cloud images
<slangasek>  * migrated from firefox to chromium prompted by lack of google hangouts support
<cyphermox> caribou: ah, that not starting on boot
<slangasek>  * noting update-manager has just given me a one-line-high viewing window for displaying the diff in a conffile
<slangasek> (done)
<cyphermox> caribou: that's only when you ipv6.disable=1 right?
<caribou> cyphermox: no default configuration
<slangasek> tdaitx:
<tdaitx> = Merges
<tdaitx>   * open-vm-tools (LP: #1651608, LP: #1666430)
<tdaitx>     - got in touch with Debian maintainer, he is willing to move from xmlsecurity to xmlsec1 after stretch is released, he also updated Build-Depends to libssl1.0-dev|libssl-dev (instead of just libssl1.0-dev); debian #856569
<tdaitx>   * ncurses (LP: #1637239)
<tdaitx>     - fixed debian/rules conflict
<tdaitx>     - forwarded patches to debian (debian #857000, debian #857001, debian #857003)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1666430 in open-vm-tools (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1651608 Please merge open-vm-tools 10.1.0-4449150-3ubuntu1 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1666430
<tdaitx>     - merge on hold due to FF (no outstanding fixes upstream and no bug reports on current version)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1666430 in open-vm-tools (Ubuntu) "Please merge open-vm-tools 10.1.0-4449150-3ubuntu1 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1666430
<tdaitx> = JCK 8
<ubottu> Debian bug 856569 in open-vm-tools "open-vm-tools: Depend on either libssl1.0-dev or libssl-dev" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/856569
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1637239 in ncurses (Ubuntu) "Please merge ncurses 6.0+20161126-1 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1637239
<tdaitx>   * Updated jck 8 exclusion lists for
<ubottu> Debian bug 857000 in ncurses "ncurses: Add autopkgtest for ncurses" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/857000
<ubottu> Debian bug 857001 in ncurses "ncurses: Build 32bit packages on s390x" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/857001
<tdaitx>   * Tested avahi setup to fix dns reverse lookup
<ubottu> Debian bug 857003 in ncurses "ncurses: Build x32 packages" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/857003
<bdmurray> slangasek: that's bug 1623856 which flexiondotorg was working on at one point in time
<tdaitx>   * Setting up lxd server on slaves to run the right ubuntu series
<ubottu> bug 1623856 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu Zesty) "Scrolled Windows in update-manager are too small to read" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1623856
<tdaitx>   * Adding remote lxd servers from slaves to jck control machine
<tdaitx> = Other
<tdaitx>   * Watched Devices TH newest episode
<tdaitx>   * Reviewed "forward declaration" and "stp" merge proposals for netplan
<tdaitx> (done)
<bdmurray> slangasek: I've been unable to recreate it
<chiluk> doko?
<cyphermox> caribou: ah, I see now
<slangasek> bdmurray: thanks for the ref.  I haven't run into a whole lot of conffile prompts lately (and really shouldn't have had this one), so that's good at least
<cyphermox> tdaitx: thanks again for those reviews
<tdaitx> cyphermox, ;-)
<chiluk>  lp 1647389 - Working through back-porting identified patch, but that is quickly growing likely un-sru-able. It looks like the issue will have to be re-root-caused, and then have an original patch created for it.
<chiluk>  * A few other non public cases.
<chiluk>  -- done --
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1647389 in qemu (Ubuntu) "Regression: Live migrations can still crash after CVE-2016-5403 fix" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1647389
<slangasek> doko: around?
<slangasek> and no mwhudson of course :)
<slangasek> questions on status?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> ok! anything else this morning?
<bdmurray> just want to remind people about http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-z-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<bdmurray> xnox: have you looked at bug 1651623 yet?
<ubottu> bug 1651623 in apport (Ubuntu Yakkety) "adt tests fail on zesty for apport" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1651623
<cyphermox> bdmurray: should we also target the bugs to specific milestones?
<bdmurray> cyphermox: we should add a release task if its real important, then milestone
<xnox> heh
<xnox> no, sorry
<xnox> i should do the release critical bugs round this week
<xnox> which means today/tomorrow
<bdmurray> xnox: I'll buy you a beer or something
<bdmurray> there's also http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-z-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<bdmurray> that's shorter and many are being worked on
<slangasek> alrighty, anything else?
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Mar  9 16:28:58 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-03-09-16.03.moin.txt
<caribou> thanks!
<barry> thanks!
<slangasek> thanks, all
 * genii washes out the coffee mugs and mops the floor
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-03-07
 * vorlon waves
<juliank> o/
<cyphermox> o/
<sil2100> o/
<vorlon> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Mar  7 16:01:34 2019 UTC.  The chair is vorlon. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<vorlon> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<vorlon> $ echo $(shuf -e vorlon bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson juliank waveform)
<vorlon> doko sil2100 infinity rbalint bdmurray xnox mwhudson cyphermox juliank vorlon tdaitx waveform
<doko> first time 1st
<doko> and didn't prepare an update ... so openjdk-11 transition & toolchain work
<doko> (done)
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - Kernel reviews and releases, lots!
<sil2100> - Last week: 16.04.6
<sil2100> - This week: 14.04.6 - and it's out now!
<sil2100> - Lots of package copies and reviews for the OpenJDK-11 bionic transition
<sil2100> - Some minor changes to the purge-count cdimage MP, thanks Steve for merging!
<sil2100> - Working around checksum-directory limitations in the image archival scripting
<sil2100> - Tomorrow: out of office o/
<sil2100> (done)
<rbalint> o/.
<bdmurray> rbalint: does that mean you are ready?
<rbalint> * partner work
<rbalint> * uploaded wireshark 2.6.7-1 through Debian
<rbalint> * packaged wslu for Disco
<rbalint> * gardened wsl bugs in LP
<rbalint> * fixed regresion in Disco's acpid
<rbalint> (done)
<bdmurray> reported bug regarding postgresql charm (LP: #1818145)
<bdmurray> tested new postgresql charm in ET mojo spec (success!)
<bdmurray> tested IS changes to ET mojo spec (fail :-( )
<bdmurray> submitted MP which fixes that (ET mojo spec)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1818145 in PostgreSQL Charm "check_lastest_ready_wal.py fails" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1818145
<bdmurray> research into how nbs report and checkrdepends works
<bdmurray> uploaded new version of distro-info that only shows LTSes for supported-esm
<bdmurray> started SRU of distro-info and distro-info-data
<bdmurray> SRU verification of apport SRUs for 18.04
<bdmurray> research into gdb issues in disco
<bdmurray> reported gdb bug re: debug-file-directory (LP: #1818918)
<bdmurray> special SRU review of curtin
<bdmurray> discussed machine readable rls reports with will cooke
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1818918 in gdb (Ubuntu) "gdb doesn't search in debug-file-directory for .gnu_debugaltlink" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1818918
<bdmurray> done but no check mark b/c something sucks
<bdmurray> xnox:
<xnox> * short week, was out tue-mon since malta
<xnox> * openssl 1.1.1b uploaded & migrated
<xnox> * zkey fixes for automation (needed for installers)
<xnox> * validating / sheparding openssl/s390x SRUs
<xnox> * prototyping rebootspeed
<xnox> * send kernel autopkgtest fixes for review to the kernel team
<xnox> DONE
<cyphermox> finished grub2 merge -- uploaded after fixing my bad pointer math
<cyphermox> investigating grub theming / menu changes
<cyphermox> preparing SRU for grub2 conffile fixes
<cyphermox> code review open PRs for netplan
<vorlon> sharphed
<cyphermox> netplan.io 0.96 tagging + prepare upload for disco
<cyphermox> sponsored carla package for e.eickmeyer
<cyphermox> clarifying upstream systemd "ActivationMode=" PR + rebase
<cyphermox> (done)
<juliank> oh, it's my time!
<juliank> * APT
<juliank>  - Fixed a few bugs in never pinning in apt/trusty git branch
<juliank>  - Uploaded SRUs for all releases
<juliank>  - SRU verifications
<juliank>  - Another small fix and translation updates for 1.8.0 (release ETA tomorrow)
<juliank>  - auth.conf.d directory is missing (LP: #1818996)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1818996 in apt (Ubuntu Disco) "auth.conf.d directory missing" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1818996
<juliank>  - seemed like auth.conf.d support in trusty and xenial did not work for https, only http; turned out I forgot to upgrade apt-transport-https to proposed ...
<juliank> * PackageKit:
<juliank>  - Merge new version from unstable
<juliank>  - Forwarded frontend-locking patch to upstream
<juliank>  - SRU crash fix to bionic and cosmic (LP: #1818201)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1818201 in packagekit (Ubuntu Cosmic) "packagekitd crashed with SIGSEGV in __memmove_{sse2,avx}_unaligned_erms() from std::char_traits<char>::copy() from ... from show_errors (errorCode=PK_ERROR_ENUM_CANNOT_FETCH_SOURCES)" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1818201
<juliank> * autopkgtest-cloud: Change request.cgi to sort printed fields by name, so output is in stable order
<juliank> * python-mechanicalsoup: Fixed tests, forwarded to Debian
<juliank> * apport:
<juliank>   - Introduce support for non-positional arguments (LP: #1732962)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1732962 in apport (Ubuntu Cosmic) "apport uses sys.argv instead of named arguments" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1732962
<juliank>   - Fixup for style issue in yesterday's upload that broke the build
<juliank> * livecd-rootfs/bionic: new minimize-manual merge proposal https://code.launchpad.net/~juliank/livecd-rootfs/+git/livecd-rootfs/+merge/363932
<juliank> * update-notifier / apt esm hook thinking, fixes
<juliank> (ubottu is a bit slow..)
<juliank> (done)
<vorlon>  * assist with openjdk-11 SRUs
<vorlon>  * full SRU day last Friday, made some progress on the queues
<vorlon>  * discussions around SecureBoot signing of FIPS kernels
<vorlon>  * discussions around trusty ESM transition
<vorlon>  * TB business
<vorlon> (done)
<tdaitx> * openjdk-11 bionic security transition
<tdaitx>   - reviewed and uploaded packages
<tdaitx>   - bump & rebuild arch specific packages
<tdaitx>   - updated list of packages that also need Cosmic SRU
<tdaitx>     - 153 packages
<tdaitx>     - 9 are arch specific (no binary copies)
<tdaitx> Other:
<tdaitx> - travelling back home on Saturday early morning
<tdaitx> - wondered if the bot can handle the openjdk transition bug, decided not to try
<tdaitx> - (done)
<waveform> * Reading up on ARM TrustZone (specifically in relation to pi3)
<waveform> * Testing wimpress' bluetooth fixes on classic & core (not finished core yet)
<waveform> * Verified u-boot-tools SRU
<waveform> * Added Pi-specific permissions to linux-firmware-raspi2
<waveform> * Added hacks from Malta to livecd-rootfs to reduce boot time, and ensure getty starts after cloud-init's done
<waveform> * Moving Pi-specific hacks from livecd-rootfs to linux-firmware-raspi2 (need to test upgrade path)
<waveform> * gpiozero 1.5 tested; needs colorzero (also tested) importing (upstream? SRU?)
<waveform> * Did I mention the reading up on ARM TrustZone? Well, more of that...
<waveform> (done)
<gaughen> pause for an argument about fortnite
<bdmurray> I was disappointed we didn't do the dance off gaughen
<rbalint> gaughen, is it snapped?
<vorlon> any questions over status?
<cyphermox> can we patent our pattern of discussion?
<cyphermox> since we're essentially talking about copyright and trademark, etc.
<vorlon> waveform: are the livecd-rootfs changes hacks, or real fixes? :)
<waveform> vorlon, some are "fixes" or even just downright configuration, but they're definitely "hacks" in the way they're implemented!
<tdaitx> waveform: don't answer that, it is a trick
<vorlon> heh
<vorlon> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<vorlon> [LINK] http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-dd-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<xnox> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1817097
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1817097 in Ubuntu on IBM z Systems "pvmove causes file system corruption without notice upon move from 512 -> 4096 logical block size devices" [Critical,New]
<bdmurray> cyphermox: It doesn't look like bug 1794292 was fixed in cosmic, it should be SRu'ed right?
<ubottu> bug 1794292 in plymouth (Ubuntu Cosmic) "plymouthd crashed with SIGSEGV in /sbin/plymouthd:11 in ply_renderer_set_handler_for_input_source -> ply_keyboard_stop_watching_for_renderer_input -> ply_keyboard_stop_watching_for_input -> ply_device_manager_deactivate_keyboards -> on_deactivate" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1794292
<vorlon> xnox: so isn't that a kernel bug?
<cyphermox> bdmurray: yes
<bdmurray> cyphermox: there are still 12k crashes for Cosmic
<cyphermox> yep
<bdmurray> cyphermox: is that something you'll take then?
<cyphermox> yep.
<cyphermox> now we have nice shiny upstream-blessed patches too
<bdmurray> cyphermox: feel free to ping me if you upload something
<bdmurray> bug 1818890 was reported the other day
<ubottu> bug 1818890 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "[disco] After installation, all the default languages are installed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1818890
<bdmurray> That seems worth fixing
<cyphermox> wat, again?
<sil2100> cyphermox: you have context on that one?
<cyphermox> well, I'm pretty sure we've seen that happen before
<cyphermox> it's common class of problems, where packages aren't being removed correctly after install
<bdmurray> I'll target it and card it
<vorlon> thanks
<bdmurray> bug 1817862 should probably be carded too based of seb's comment
<ubottu> bug 1817862 in update-manager (Ubuntu Disco) "/usr/bin/update-manager:RuntimeError(org.freedesktop.DBus.Python.RuntimeError):_on_clicked:_deferable:_convert_dbus_exception..." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1817862
<xnox> argh
<vorlon> fwiw when I noticed the desktop image got bigger recently, analysis of the packages showed language packs turning up in the manifest which hadn't been there in the image earlier this year
<vorlon> which may mask the actual problem, or may be related
<vorlon> bdmurray: agreed, though the traceback looks generic and useless
<vorlon> (and the bug title makes the reports ugly :)
<bdmurray> should the error tracker just limit the title to 42 characters or so?
<vorlon> wfm
<vorlon> (low priority though)
<cyphermox> vorlon: langpacks in manifest may actually be why it's a problem
<vorlon> cyphermox: ack
<cyphermox> something with shipped vs. live, we'll see
<bdmurray> seb also tagged bug 1817619 but I haven't looked into it yet
<ubottu> bug 1817619 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "Update causes 30 sec boot delay on EFI system, with NVMe and LVM" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1817619
<vorlon> uh
<vorlon> how is that not a duplicate of the bugs I closed invalid?
<vorlon> answer: it is but has not been marked such
<cyphermox> indeed
<vorlon> I'll take care of it
<vorlon> bdmurray: next?
<didrocks> bdmurray: vorlon: I've already done the analyzes of bug #181889, you can give it to me
<ubottu> bug 181889 in linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24 (Ubuntu) "special buttons on Fujitsu tablets doesn't work anymore" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/181889
<didrocks> (not related to the image size increase though, IMHO)
<bdmurray> vorlon: that's it from me
<vorlon> [TOPIC] Proposed-migration
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Proposed-migration
<vorlon> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/disco/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
<bdmurray> didrocks: is that the right number?
<vorlon> glibc is out of the way now
<didrocks> bdmurray: sorry, missing one digit: bug #1818890
<ubottu> bug 1818890 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "[disco] After installation, all the default languages are installed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1818890
 * didrocks vanishes and let you continue your meeting
<vorlon> ah and it looks like openssl + r-cran-openssl got sorted too
<vorlon> so it's a short list
<rbalint> i'm triaging curl->ruby-rack
<bdmurray> cyphermox: ^^
<vorlon> pillow still waiting for an MIR
<doko> python-scipy regressed in the release pocket as well, afaics
<vorlon> rbalint: ok.  I've prodded the Server Team about the fact that we maybe want to remove the whole rails stack instead of trying to play whack-a-mole with these packages we can't maintain and we believe no one uses
<vorlon> but I haven't seen any action from them yet wrt socializing this plan
<rbalint> vorlon, i'm +1 on that for disco
<vorlon> rbalint: unfortunately it doesn't unblock curl any quicker because ruby-rack is quite deep in the stack so it would take a while to unwind, unless you think this particular regression is ignorable
<cyphermox> vorlon: so who will write the pillow MIR?
<vorlon> cyphermox: is it not written yet?  I assumed doko had a handle on this
<cyphermox> typically it's nice to not write your own, since it makes it a little weird to also review it ;)
<cyphermox> well, if doko wants to write it, I'll review
<cyphermox> or the other way around
<rbalint> vorlon, i'll be back with and answer for curl
<vorlon> cyphermox: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libimagequant/+bug/1812858 ?
<cyphermox> I couldn't find a bug for it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1812858 in libimagequant (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libimagequant (dependency of pillow)" [Undecided,New]
<cyphermox> ah
<cyphermox> well, libimagequant is fine, waiting for security review. top of the queue iirc
<vorlon> lintian is an issue with the new autopkgtests having become consistently slower and now hitting timeouts
<vorlon> this was a post-freeze sync by a community member, who I have asked to own this; I don't feel any responsibility for getting lintian 2.9.1 in until this is resolved
<vorlon> doko: if python-scipy has regressed also in release, do you want to follow up with me on #ubuntu-release after this to get it badtested?
<vorlon> xnox: fuse-zip/s390x + fuse, does that need attention?
<doko> vorlon: but later tonight. afk atter the meeting
<vorlon> ok
<vorlon> xnox: fuse-zip/s390x?
<xnox> possibly
<xnox> what's wrong?
<vorlon> do you want to take it?
<vorlon> failing autopkgtest
<vorlon> xnox: http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/f/fuse-zip/disco/s390x
<vorlon> doko: do you know anything about the epsilon regression w/ new python-defaults?
<doko> vorlon: that's the new kernel, changed diskstats
<doko> I'm looking at that one
<vorlon> ok
<vorlon> I think that's everything that needs attention currently
<vorlon> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<vorlon> anything else?
<vorlon> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Mar  7 16:42:59 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2019/ubuntu-meeting.2019-03-07-16.01.moin.txt
<vorlon> thanks, all!
<tsimonq2> o/
<Kilos> o/
<Wild_Man> o/
<nzoueidi> hey folks
<Kilos> aw genii  sleeping so no coffee
<nzoueidi> okay the UMB are here, so we can start
<nzoueidi> just to check frederik-f are you here?
<Kilos> frederik-f  ping
<Wild_Man> hello frederik-f
<frederik-f1> Hi!
<Kilos> hi
<nzoueidi> Hey there
<nzoueidi> okay, tsimonq2 are you here?
<tsimonq2> Yup
<nzoueidi> cool, let's start then \o/
<nzoueidi> #startmeeting 20 UTC Membership Board Meeting
<Kilos> yip
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Mar  7 20:10:11 2019 UTC.  The chair is nzoueidi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | 20 UTC Membership Board Meeting | Current topic:
<nzoueidi> Hey people, welcome to the Membership Board Meeting
<nzoueidi> The wiki page for the Review Board is available here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards.
<nzoueidi> We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting and while we have only frederik-f
<nzoueidi> Then it is good and a quick meeting :D
<frederik-f> :) cool
<nzoueidi> frederik-f, you need to introduce themselves (1-5 sentences)
<nzoueidi> and provide for us your wiki page link and the LP account
<nzoueidi> #topic frederik-f
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | 20 UTC Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: frederik-f
<frederik-f> Okay! Hello, I am Frederik, living in Germany, working as java dev in my daily work, and contributed to the Yaru theme a lot
<frederik-f> This is my wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FrederikFeichtmeier
<Wild_Man> frederik-f, how long have you been contributing?
<frederik-f> My launchpad page is very empty and not very exiting because I contributed mainly on github, because that is where all the yaru stuff happens :(
<frederik-f> I contribute since beginning of 2017 to yaru
<nzoueidi> #voters Wild_Man Kilos tsimonq2 nzoueidi
<meetingology> Current voters: Kilos Wild_Man nzoueidi tsimonq2
<nzoueidi> if anyone have any question for frederik-f please go ahead
<Wild_Man> I looked at github and that is when I thought you started contributing just wanted to make sure
<nzoueidi> and if there is anyone here that is supporting the application of frederik-f  to the Ubuntu Membership, please show up :D
<frederik-f> This is my launchpad page, but is very empty: https://launchpad.net/~frederik-feichtmeier
<frederik-f> All my PRs are on github :(
<frederik-f> https://github.com/ubuntu/yaru/graphs/contributors
<frederik-f> My name is "Feichtmeier" on github
<nzoueidi> I have some questions, why aren't you involved into the Germany LoCo team?
<frederik-f> I actually do not know what it is :(
<frederik-f> I started to contribute to the Ubuntu theme, because I thought they needed help back then when it started.
<frederik-f> I can surely help, I will google what it is
<nzoueidi> sure, np
<nzoueidi> here is the link for the LoCo team in Germany: http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-de-locoteam/
<nzoueidi> I like your github profile. Keep up the good work
<Kilos> impressive frederik-f
<Wild_Man> impressive indeed
<frederik-f> I hope you like the yaru theme :)
<frederik-f> I will try to attend to LoCo, just googled it!
<nzoueidi> any other question from the board?
<Kilos> join them
<Kilos> nope i am happy
<Wild_Man> No
<nzoueidi> what about you tsimonq2?
<tsimonq2> No questions here.
<nzoueidi> alrighty
<nzoueidi> #votesrequired 4
<meetingology> votes now need 4 to be passed
<nzoueidi> #vote for frederik-f  Membership!
<meetingology> Please vote on: for frederik-f  Membership!
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<Kilos> +1 keep up the good work
<meetingology> +1 keep up the good work received from Kilos
<Wild_Man> +1
<nzoueidi> +1 from me, keep it up frederik-f :)
<meetingology> +1 received from Wild_Man
<meetingology> +1 from me, keep it up frederik-f :) received from nzoueidi
<diddledan> dang, I'm late
<Kilos> lol
 * nzoueidi pinging tsimonq2 to vote :P
<diddledan> +1 if I were to be included in the voters list, but I arrived late, so I don't count :-p
<Kilos> tsimonq2  we await your vote
<nzoueidi> he is afk I think
<tsimonq2> Oh
<tsimonq2> Sorry
<tsimonq2> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from tsimonq2
<nzoueidi> xD
<nzoueidi> it is okay
<nzoueidi> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: for frederik-f  Membership!
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<nzoueidi> congratulations frederik-f and welcome aboard :)
<toddy> Congrats frederik-f and if you have any questions about the German LoCo Team than you can ask me everything. :)
<tsimonq2> Congrats!
<frederik-f> Woah thank you!
<Kilos> frederik-f  welcome aboard
<diddledan> awesome!
<frederik-f> Time for a beer! :D Thank you very much
<Wild_Man> Congrats frederik-f
 * nzoueidi going to add frederik-f to ~ubuntumembers
<nzoueidi> Thank you guys for assisting this meeting and have a good night
<frederik-f> toddy: thank you, I will! Here? Or anywhere else? Sorry I am a big IRC noob
<frederik-f> I had hard times to register my nickname
<Kilos> lol
<nzoueidi> #Endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Mar  7 20:28:16 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2019/ubuntu-meeting.2019-03-07-20.10.moin.txt
<sarnold> frederik-f: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntumembers  :)
<frederik-f> Cheers! Thank you!
<Kilos> cheers
<Wild_Man> frederik-f, you have been added
<frederik-f> Thank you!
<Wild_Man> Your welcome!
<frederik-f> I will leave Thunderbird IRC now! Thank you very much for letting me in
<Kilos> lol you welcome
<Kilos> dont forget irc now
<Kilos> you use kde?
<frederik-f> I wont! No I use Ubuntu "vanilla" - need to test the yaru stuff :)
<Kilos> oh no i am thinking of konversation
<Kilos> keep it up
<diddledan> `snap install irccloud` :-)
<frederik-f> ah! Well I tried polari but now that I "returned" full mozilla again, after I threw google of my PC, I thought I try thunderbird IRC, but yeah, maybe I should try something else :D
<Kilos> lol i use thunderbird for mail only
<Kilos> you can try exchat
<Kilos> hexchat
<Kilos> broken H
<frederik-f> Ex-chat would also be a nice brand :D
<diddledan> that's a snap too :-)
<Kilos> lol
<frederik-f> Chat with all your "Ex's" O.o
<Kilos> nono you end up sleeping with the dogs
<frederik-f> haha
<frederik-f> okay, now really goodbye, thank you guys
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-03-03
<doko> o/
<didrocks> hey
<cpaelzer> :-/ 50 mintes later still most people missing
<cpaelzer> since nothing happened lets consider the thursday meeting "the meeting" for this week
<didrocks> agreed
