#ubuntu-doc 2005-09-19
<froud> can anyone clue me on the revision number before kubuntu profiling was removed?
<froud> 1756?
<froud> FAQ GUIDE FORK @ r 1757   http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2005-September/003550.html
<trickie> hello all
<trickie> i haven't been in here since the Hoary release
<trickie> just wanted to say breezy looks cool
<trickie> and the doc team seems to be doing some good work
<trickie> congrats! 
<Burgundavia> hey trickie, long time no see
<trickie> Burgundavia, yeah good to be back
<trickie> Burgundavia, i have some more free time again now, so i am tossing up whether to get back into the doc team
<Burgundavia> trickie, you should, it is good for the sole
<Burgundavia> or is it the soul?
<trickie> Burgundavia, he he yes it is... i was bummed that i missed the whole breezy cycle... been watching from a distance
<jsgotangco> morning
<jsgotangco> hey rob^
<carthik> Hi folks -- there was a guy at #ubuntu who installed breezy by accident -- since the download page lists breezy first.
<carthik> Shouldnt the stable version be right on top? 
<HrdwrBoB> yes it should
<HrdwrBoB> I thought that had been fixed
<HrdwrBoB> it came up yesterday
<carthik> I stopped short of editing it since i wasn't sure i should do it without discussion - unsure of policies, in other words. Thanks, HrdwrBoB 
<rob^> hi..
<Madpilot> hi rob^
<rob^> Madpilot hi
<robitaille> Madpilot, so how was your brother talk?
<robitaille> I didn't manage to make it to campus tonight...
<Madpilot> robitaille: it went well, he had good slides and gave a pretty good talk
<Madpilot> two talks actually, one about Ubuntu & the 2nd shorter one about Google SoC
<Burgundavia> rob^, should I be hacking the QT in the branch or the trunk?
<robitaille> Burgundavia,  sorry about missing your talk...it was a crazy night at home :(
<Burgundavia> robitaille, np
<Burgundavia> robitaille, I am sure I will give more
<Madpilot> Burgundavia: you going to release the slides you used? CC-BY-SA and stick them up somewhere for the rest of the community to use?
<Burgundavia> guess I should
<Madpilot> I've got webspace if you need it - too back Ubuntu's FTP support bites so much...
<Burgundavia> have we sorted out that is was not Ace of Space?
<Madpilot> I'm pretty sure it's not, but I'll file a help ticket for more info on assigning FTP accounts...
<Madpilot> you could always upload it to the U wiki as an attachement
<rob^> Burgundavia, I would say you would be safe with the trunk, it can be copied to the branch when you are ready to release it
<rob^> just let jbailey know what the go is
<Burgundavia> rob^, ok
<rob^> I have to get ready for night shift :( catch you all later
* robitaille points at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Presentations  :)
* robitaille now hates evolution...a 500+ mb application on a 256mb laptop doesn't work out very well 
<Burgundavia> thunderbird is even stupider. I learned today that it keeps all of its email in memory when running
<Madpilot> so what happens to your email if your system shuts down unexpectedly? (power failure or something?)
<rob^> have you tried sylpheed-claws?
<robitaille> there is a copy of disk, hopefully relatively well insynch.  But  it's a lot faster to deal with large indexes if its all in memory.
<Burgundavia> it is kept on disk, just kept in memory for searching purposes
<rob^> lightweight, gtk+ nice email client
<Madpilot> ah, OK. sounds like a good way to clog your RAM/swap, in any case...
* rob^ just walked past
<robitaille> rob^,  never try  sylpheed-claws;  between tries at evolution/thunderbird evety fewmonths, I usually fall back at mutt for something simple
<rob^> its very good, I've used it on a few low spec machines
<robitaille> the sales pitch on its web site is pretty good.  
<mdke> hi all
* froud looks up. nods
<Burgundavia> salut mdke 
<Burgundavia> hey froud, long time no see
<mdke> hi Burgundavia, froud 
<Burgundavia> mdke, the QT hacking I am going to do tomorrow. Breezy branch or trunk?
<mdke> i would agree with rob
<Burgundavia> ok
<mdke> it's up to you as long as you know jbailey know if you want the doc to go into breezy
<Burgundavia> ok
<mdke> we have a quite large problem with the faqguide pot :/
<Burgundavia> what sort of issues?
<froud> mdke: what problem
<mdke> i'm trying to track it down
<mdke> i'm not sure if there is a problem with the pot or with rosetta
* Burgundavia needs to crash, night
<mdke> i can't see anything wrong with the pot
<mdke> so maybe it is rosetta
<froud> what is the complaint?
<mdke> i have to show it to you
<mdke> but launchpad is offline right now
<froud> Hmm ok
<froud> "NEVER come up with a product and then try to find a market. Ever."
<froud> Instead of :
<froud> Sell your market what they want to buy.
<froud> whew, why was the breezy branch made on the whole repos
<froud> is edubuntu going as a package
<froud> I know kubuntu is a package by is not introduced to the distro in the same way as ubuntu-docs
<froud> seems overkill to svn copy * of trunk, no?
<mdke> eh?
<froud> wagga wagga why have edu and kub in ubu breezy branch, just makes to many leaves for the branch
<froud> b btr 2 svn cp what ubu needs to breezy branch, no?
<mdke> ok i think i've understood you
<mdke> but talking in full sentences would really help
<mdke> yes, jbailey copied the whole of trunk
<mdke> i suppose he will cut out what he doesn't need eventually
<froud> yah, but when :-)
<mdke> i don't know
<mdke> why?
<froud> better do do it at start, you see even tough you will prune and clean, you dont reallydelete
<froud> you just remove from head :-)
<froud> making log and scroll back big
<froud> not a problem, just not optimal on server usage or disk space :-)
<froud> also I see changes in branches/breezy we will want those in trunk sometime
<froud> is somebody following the branch and trunk and making sure they can merge branches back to trunk later
<froud> would be shame to have limux in trunk breezy + 1 :-)
<mdke> yes
<mdke> of course that will be done
<froud> ok, just making sure
<froud> :-)
<froud> not sure if people r aware of issues like this, so better to say something than shutup and then have the problem to manage later ;-)
<mdke> rebooting
<mdke> gonna try recreating the pot with the gnome-doc-utils from breezy
<mdke> perhaps this issue is caused by the version in hoary
<froud> Uhm you should be using KDESDK
<mdke> interesting use of the phrase "you should be"
<froud> xml2pot from kde sdk is what we used last time
<froud> we had problems with gdoc utils
<mdke> yeah I know
<mdke> this time we went with gnome-doc-utils
<froud> oh well, up to you, whatever works
<mdke> brb
<froud> bitch the pdf transform for FAQ is not able to do its thang due to duplicate id values
<froud> but doc is valid, IOW there are no dupes. Now where is the problem
<mdke> no idea
<_froud_> "There is a connection you feel to the paper and the letters as they press down in a clickety clack chorus that instantly makes you feel alive, like a writer creating a literary classic like the immortal's, Hemingway, Steinbeck, and Faulkner.
<_froud_> 
<_froud_> Their thoughts and ideas will live forever because they created beautiful works that touched the hearts and minds of generations. 
<_froud_> Sure, these days everyone has a computer with all the bells and whistles, but if you really want to connect with your 'inner muse' you'll discover the soul of the writer that can only be found when you can let your fingers dance across the keys of a genuine, honest-to-goodness-just-like-the-good-old -days-typewriter.
<mdke> _froud_, what problems did you have with gnome-doc-utils?
<mdke> froud, ^
<froud> as I recall the pot files had poor syntax
<froud> how does the new version look, better?
<mdke> than what?
<froud> than the first 
<mdke> sorry I don't understand the question
<froud> previous pot file make by prev doc utils
<mdke> ah
<mdke> the same
<froud> and when you use xml2pot from kde?
<mdke> i haven't got it
<mdke> it requires me to install 99 packages
<froud> jahmaaan
* froud goes to see
<dholbach> hi
<mdke> hiya
<klepas> moin
<mdke> hiya
<klepas> don't recall meeting you afore
<klepas> so, greetings. :-)
<mdke> hello :)
<mdke> name is matt
<klepas> name is Pascal
<mdke> welcome to the docteam
<klepas> thanks
<klepas> I pop in here every-so-often
<klepas> :-)
<klepas> eventually i intend to help out
<klepas> i reckon i could learn with saying 'no' to a lot of requests made to me.
<klepas> would cut down on the workload... :-)
<mdke> yeah me too
<klepas> You are in a similar strife, eh?
<mdke> yep
<klepas> *Chuckles*
<mdke> what the hell is sean doing
<jjesse> his own thing
<mdke> indeed
<mdke> he exasperates me
<highvoltage> mdke: you're not the first who have said that :)
<mdke> i'm sure
<jsgotangco> hi all
<jsgotangco> mdke: more pot bugs huh
<mdke> yes
<jsgotangco> hrmmm
<mdke> i think we have them licked, but uploading a new pot to rosetta may wipe out a lot of translations, I'm not sure
<mdke> sean has been playing around with things but has not told us what he is doing, which is annoying
<mdke> hopefully in the end we will figure something out
<jsgotangco> it really annoys me
<jsgotangco> i just came from LinuxWorld with no net access all day so i am now catching up atm
<jsgotangco> hopefully tommorow i get wifi over there
<mdke> :)
<jsgotangco> mdke: a new pot will destroy all existing work right
<mdke> some things should get merged
<mdke> i'm not 100% sure how that is done tho
<mdke> i'm hoping to ask jordi
<mdke> but in any case, I don't really see how it can be avoided
<mdke> we _have_ to upload a new pot
<jsgotangco> hrmmm is there a way to test the pot like validating it before sending it to rosetta?
<mdke> yes, sean in his last email suggested there was
<mdke> but he didn't say how
<mdke> i've asked in my last email
<jsgotangco> grrr it seems he is doing it on purpose to show how weak we are in some areas
<mdke> yes
<jsgotangco> what a git
<mdke> i don't mind, but what annoys me is that he does things without saying what he is doing
<mdke> that is unprofessional
<mdke> especially where it involves doing the opposite of what was discussed
<jsgotangco> i'd like to kick him off the list but that is not the proper way
<mdke> hmm
<mdke> if he becomes more disruptive, removing svn access would be a possibility I suppose, if discussed in a team meeting and/or CC
<jsgotangco> sure
<jsgotangco> me an jbailey are discussing about brainstorming after release for UBZ
<jsgotangco> we'll sort this out
<mdke> good
<mdke> we need a stable working methodology otherwise each release cycle will be mayhem
<jsgotangco> yup
<jsgotangco> sorry mdke i can't help much on this regard, pots are still a mystery to me
<mdke> np
<mdke> hmm
<jsgotangco> is dapper drake really the name?
<jsgotangco> oh wait
<jsgotangco> i just read the email
<mdke> yes
<jjesse> yup it is
<jsgotangco> wtf is sean even responding in english
<jjesse> grin no english that i understand
<mdke> sort of stream of consciousness
<mdke> anyway, we are getting somewhere
<mdke> jordi says that the existing translations will be kept if the strings are identical
<mdke> so we should consider uploading a new pot
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<jsgotangco> do you have a new pot already?
<mdke> yes
<mdke> made from the faqguide from branches/breezy
<jsgotangco> nice
<jsgotangco> it will probably work
<mdke> it will work but we will get one single file out of the translations (e.g. faqguide.tl.xml)
<jsgotangco> yuck that will take forever to load in yelp
<jsgotangco> but then if it works...
<mdke> i'm not sure
<jsgotangco> mmm they seem to be preparing BOFs now for ubz
<jsgotangco> hey jordi
<jordi> hi guys
<mdke> hiya
<mdke> my head is spinning a bit right now
<jordi> hehe
<jordi> don't worry. You're on track :)
<jordi> mdke: do you have a g-d-u makefile setup now?
<mdke> nope
<mdke> not much chance that we can do that
<mdke> maybe for breezy+1
<jordi> with that in place (as directed in the gnome wiki), this is a piece of cake provided your files are using xinclude correcty.
<jordi> really?
<jordi> it'd only be a change to the build system, with quite some benefits i guess
<mdke> i don't have the time to investigate that now...
<jordi> I can help.
<mdke> also it would be a very drastic change at late notice
<jordi> re: that, I don't know the freeze policy so I don't have an opinion.
<mdke> i think we should stick to doing the pot manually for now
<jordi> ok.
<mdke> anyhow we have xincludes working properly, so the next question is, should we use -e to resolve entities
<mdke> sean says no
<mdke> danilo says yes
<jordi> I erally recommend moving to the standard make setup, but it's too late, it's too late.
<jordi> gnome uses -e
<jordi> danilo wrote the tool, in part.
<jordi> so you decide :P
<mdke> heh
<jsgotangco> ho ho
<jordi> if ! test -d bg/; then mkdir bg/; fi
<jordi> if test -f "C/release-notes.xml"; then d="../"; else d=".././"; fi; \
<jordi> if ! test -f bg/bg.po; then \
<jordi>   (cd bg/ && \
<jordi>     `which xml2po` -e ${d}C/release-notes.xml ${d}C/release-notes.xml ${d}C/rni18n.xml ${d}C/rndocs.xml ${d}C/rninstallation.xml ${d}C/rnusers.xml ${d}C/rnadmins.xml ${d}C/rndevelopers.xml > bg.po); \
<mdke> jordi, is it correct to say that if there are a number of entities in the pot file which have the same string, they will only get translated once in rosetta?
<jordi> else \
<jordi>   (cd bg/ && \
<jordi>     `which xml2po` -e -u bg ${d}C/release-notes.xml ${d}C/release-notes.xml ${d}C/rni18n.xml ${d}C/rndocs.xml ${d}C/rninstallation.xml ${d}C/rnusers.xml ${d}C/rnadmins.xml ${d}C/rndevelopers.xml); \
<jordi> fi
<jordi> oops, big paste, sorry.
<jordi> this is a snippet of the gnome build
<jordi> then it does
<jordi> if test -f "C/release-notes.xml"; then d="../C/"; else d=".././C/"; fi; \
<jordi> (cd bg/ && \ export PYTHONPATH=/home/jordi/cvs/gnome/2.12/gnomeweb-wml/www.gnome.org/start/2.12/notes/docbook/../../../../../www.gnome.org/start/2.12/notes; \ `which xml2po` -e -p bg.po ${d}release-notes.xml > release-notes.xml)
<jordi> (cd bg/ && \ export PYTHONPATH=/home/jordi/cvs/gnome/2.12/gnomeweb-wml/www.gnome.org/start/2.12/notes/docbook/../../../../../www.gnome.org/start/2.12/notes; \ `which xml2po` -e -p bg.po ${d}rni18n.xml > rni18n.xml)
<jordi> and then once for the rest of files.
<jordi> all of those calls use -e
<mdke> yeah
<mdke> jordi, my question?
<mdke> jordi, is it correct to say that if there are a number of entities in the pot file which have the same string, they will only get translated once in rosetta?
<jordi> mdke: correct
<jordi> they should and can only appear once in the pot file: check that if you want
<mdke> what about if it appears in a different package?
<mdke> so if two documents use the same entity
<jordi> in a pot or po file, if you get a duplicate msgid gettext errors out and you're in trouble.
<jordi> mdke: documents as in different xml files for the same doc, or two documents different as the "ubuntufaq" and "wildflowersintexas"? :)
<mdke> the latter
<jordi> if the latter, Rosetta will suggest that the string was translated in some other place, but currently I don't think it'll automatically apply it
<mdke> that is fine
<mdke> ok i think we should go with -e then
<jordi> that will happen when they work on the translation memory features, they have the base in rosetta, but no UI to use it yet.
<jordi> good
<mdke> ok i'll wait for sean to merge his xinclude improvements, then make the pot and upload it, and cross fingers
<jordi> mdke: good luck. You know where I am.
<jordi> And remember: switching to the "cool" build-sys is easy. I still think it'd be nice to try to get it accepted.:)
<jsgotangco> my brain hurts
<jsgotangco> oh well good night i have a long day ahead..
<mpt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam%2e?action=show&redirect=AboutTheUbuntuCoreDocumentationProject
<mdke> ?
<jjesse> no clue what that is supposed to be
<mdke> ah i see your point
<mdke> odd
<mdke> ah, it's the full stop
<mdke> mpt, should be fixed now, nice spot
<froud> mdke: you ok now
<mdke> yeah i think we are good to go now
<mdke> the new pot is enormous but still
<mdke> everything will get translated
<froud> well its is up to you, I would go with seperate pot files for sure
<froud> but that is just me, you go fella
<mdke> ok
<mdke> thanks for your help
<mdke> froud, one thing
<froud> np
<froud> yah
<mdke> froud, the faqguide was not valid xml before your xinclude changes?
<froud> not for what you needed
<mdke> froud, how come the validate script didn't pick it up?
<mdke> it doesn't follow entities right?
<froud> the method of using external entities means that youcannot have a doctype decl on each of the xml instance except the first
<mdke> right
<rado_uk> Hi How can I connect to AOL via Ubuntu 5.04
<froud> Therefore gnome doc utils sees all files except the first as invalid
<mdke> rado_uk, try #ubuntu
<mdke> or ring up AOL
<mdke> froud, I see
<mdke> thanks
<rado_uk> ok cheers
<froud> np, remember I may be busy but if you are ever really stuck just shout and shall appear
<mdke> froud, ok thank you
* froud is a bit pissed bout the kubuntu purge from faq
<mdke> yeah i know
* froud thinks the devs just copped out
* mdke shakes his head
<mdke> froud, you have got the kfaqguide now right?
<mdke> the faqguide for kubuntu was nowhere near ready so it made sense to purge it
<froud> unfortunately, yes
<froud> huh, bollocks
<froud> faq guide was a downstream to kfaq
<froud> opps upsteam
<mdke> yes i understand that
<froud> each time you chaps did something to gfaq, the kfaq got betta
<mdke> gfaq was finished in time for string freeze, more or less
<mdke> rob said that the kfaq was not ready to be released
<froud> but no point k chaps doing all sorts of work when everyone at gnome had not stabled the gfaq
<froud> mdke: k chaps not crital bout string
<mdke> froud, then you should have clarified the freeze with mdz
<mdke> a freeze is a freeze
<froud> it would have been better if ppl asked me to impliment a 2 step solution
<mdke> anyway, I can't discuss this right now
<mdke> we'll talk about it another time
<froud> mdke: freeze is freeze for you at gnome/ubuntu but way it is etup for kubuntu, we can go in at any time
<mdke> take that up with mdz
<froud> no need riddle controls that
<mdke> as I said, I can't discuss this right now
<mdke> another time
* froud hugs Riddell 
<froud> yah yah oneday
<froud> bye
<highvoltage> who is froud?
<mdke> froud is Sean
<highvoltage> ah. so he's froud and venda? strange.
<mdke> mainly froud
#ubuntu-doc 2005-09-20
<segfault> validate.sh about-ubuntu.xml
<segfault> about-ubuntu.xml:16: element inlinemediaobject: validity error : Element inlinemediaobject content does not follow the DTD, expecting (objectinfo? , (videoobject | audioobject | imageobject) , (videoobject | audioobject | imageobject | textobject)*), got (imageobject caption )
<segfault> about-ubuntu.xml:20: element caption: validity error : Element caption content does not follow the DTD, expecting (calloutlist | glosslist | itemizedlist | orderedlist | segmentedlist | simplelist | variablelist | caution | important | note | tip | warning | literallayout | programlisting | programlistingco | screen | screenco | screenshot | formalpara | para | simpara | blockquote)*, got (CDATA)
<segfault> Document about-ubuntu.xml does not validate
<segfault> i suppose there's something wrong?
<jjesse> wow and i thought the days Eastern time are slow, the nights are even slower here :)
<robotgeek> heh
<Madpilot> it's already midnight on the N. American eastern seaboard...
<jjesse> not yet, 10:47pm
<Madpilot> meh - added an hour, sorry!
<jjesse> grin np
<jsgotangco> salut all
<robitaille> hi jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> hey
<jsgotangco> im in linuxworld ph
<jsgotangco> hehe
<jsgotangco> shitty wireless and all
<robitaille> lucky you.   I'm at home contemplating the work still to be done tonight....
<robitaille> work = real-life work as opposed to fun ubuntu work
<rob^> wow, a lot happens when one is away for a day..
<rob^> hmm..
<Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/newbies  <-- this is a good page, but it should have a better title - redirect to ???? (need ideas here...)
<rob^> bah. what happen to that UbuntuNewbies whatever it was group? I think it kind of fizzled out (surprise surprise).
<Madpilot> heh
<Burgundavia> nun
<rob^> yeah thats it, haven't heard much lately from it
<Madpilot> what do nuns have to do with it? ;)
<rob^> haha
<rob^> keeping the newbies Ubuntu-faithful
<Madpilot> giving Burgundavia grief about his lousy typing is a hobby of mine
<Burgundavia> ya ya
<Madpilot> this is because I never make mistooks
<Madpilot> slightly more seriously: anyone got ideas on what to do with that newbies page? no links to anywhere, and it should be capital-N anyway...
<rob^> does the content belong/is it already covered elsewhere?
<Madpilot> the content?
<Burgundavia> not on the first twenty links on a search for "ubuntu newbies"
<rob^> of the wiki page
<Burgundavia> redirect to UserDocumentation
<Madpilot> should, I guess. but I do like how the newbies page is written
<Burgundavia> garbage
<rob^> yeah
<Madpilot> except that it recommends the root terminal, and stuff
<Burgundavia> newbies don't need stuff about speeding stuff up and other DE's
<Burgundavia> and FF themes
<Madpilot> ah well, good idea, badly done. I'll delete and redir to UserDoc
<Burgundavia> redirect to UserDoc, we will loose nothing
<Burgundavia> hmm
<Burgundavia> s/loose/lose
<rob^> mmm gnome mud..
<Madpilot> done
<Madpilot> rob^: what?
<rob^> buffy mud
<Madpilot> buffy the vampire fondler?
<Burgundavia> Madpilot, if you want something to do, merge https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NetworkmanagerHowto into  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NetworkManager
<Madpilot> which URL should have the actual content?
<Burgundavia> NetworkManager
<Madpilot> OK. I'm just doing a straight cut-n-paste port, though. I'm still running Hoary, remember?
<Burgundavia> that is fine
<Burgundavia> it can be cleaned up later
<Madpilot> OK
<Burgundavia> grr, fonts in FF change every bloody day it seems
<Madpilot> heh
<Madpilot> have I told you about my fun with fonts in Opera?
<Burgundavia> no
<Madpilot> Burgundavia: http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=101558
<Burgundavia> hmm, fun
<Madpilot> it was messy, and the cause of four seperate bug reports filed with Opera...
<Madpilot> Opera's bug database doesn't seem to be publicly searchable, though :(
<Burgundavia> ouch
<Madpilot> yeah
<Madpilot> I know it's closed-source, etc etc, but a searchable bug database would certainly save duplication & staff time...
<Madpilot> Burgundavia: NetworkManager stuff moved. There's still a lot of how-to-compile-your-own stuff there that'll have to be nuked by someone else
<Burgundavia> Madpilot, cheers
<Madpilot> just fired off an email on the whole "how to organize UserDocumentation" thing... now off to blow people up in ET, back later
<robotgeek> hi, i was away...by i wrote the NetworkmanagerHowto
<robotgeek> is there a wiki for how to organise UserDocumentation...since i am not a member of the doc-team
<mdke> hi robotgeek 
<mdke> what do you have in mind?
<robotgeek> i am also working on a bluetooth howto, and a multisync howto
<mdke> that's great
<mdke> you can add links to your guides to the UserDocumentation page
<robotgeek> the only reason i havent joined the doc-team is right now i don't know how much time i can devote
<robotgeek> they are still drafts, so they are there...but not quite what i would like. mostly incomplete
<mdke> that's great anyway
<mdke> if you want you can mark them in CategoryCleanup
<mdke> that way, someone who is looking for something to do can take a look at them to complete them
<robotgeek> hmm..did not know that..i just marked them as drafts and left them without linking
<mdke> :)
<mdke> thanks for your work in any case
<mdke> robotgeek, did you join our mailing list?
<robotgeek> nope...
<robotgeek> should i just join on launchpad?
<robotgeek> i am a member of nun
<robotgeek> i added both those to category cleanup
<mdke> the launchpad group is currently really for members of the docteam who have upload rights to our repository
<mdke> robotgeek, the best thing is to join the mailing list
<mdke> and you can join the wiki team in LP if you like
<robotgeek> good idea...
<mdke> if you are interested in helping to cleanup and organise the wiki
<robotgeek> yeah, i will join up
<robotgeek> i just wanted the easier approach :) i'm lazy!
<mdke> easier approach?
<robotgeek> without much work on my side :)
<robotgeek> i subscribed to the mailing list
<robotgeek> i guess i'll hang in there, and then when i am sure about the amount of time i can spend, join the wiki team
<mdke> cool
<mdke> thanks for your work
<robotgeek> no problem
<robotgeek> were the articles good? :)
<robotgeek> mdke: alrite, i guess i'll hang in here and on the list more often. gnite
<klepas> moin
<mdke> hi
<klepas> :-)
<jsgotangco> hi
<mdke> hey jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> whats up im in linuxworld
<jsgotangco> heh
<klepas> oh, nice
<jsgotangco> i think i've become quite a celebrity locally
<mdke> cool
<jsgotangco> im surprised
<mdke> me too
* mdke runs off
* klepas executes wget http://downloads.planetmirror.com/pub/ubuntu/releases/breezy/ubuntu-5.10-preview-install-i386.iso -c
<klepas> gotta grab that for Saturday's bug day
<klepas> :)
<jsgotangco> haha
<jsgotangco> mdke, its silly, someone actually asked for a picture with me
<mdke> awesome
<Burgundavia> mdke, the quicktour should be finished tomorrow
<mdke> good news
<jsgotangco> nice
<jsgotangco> with images?
<mdke> what are we going to do about translating images?
<jsgotangco> i don't think we have localised screenshots yet
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, text only for now, images I will do over the next three days (I have them off)
<jsgotangco> brb our wireless will have to reboot
<mdke> k
<jsgotangco> ill come back later
<jsgotangco> let's discuss further
<mdke> yes
<mdke> Burgundavia, what did you have in mind for localising screenshots? any ideas?
<Burgundavia> mdke, not currently
<mdke> perhaps we can ask a few people with more experience of i18n
<mdke> jordi, translating groups etc
<Burgundavia> ya
<Burgundavia> just pinged jordi
<mdke> ok
<mdke> we had a lot of fun yesterday with the faqguide
<mdke> NOT!
<Burgundavia> oh?
<mdke> see the list
<mdke> some huge problems with the pot
<Madpilot> i18n screenshots basically means re-shotting most of them, I'd think...
<mdke> sure
<Madpilot> re-shooting, even...
<mdke> it's just a question of who does it
<mdke> and where they put them
<mdke> i don't really think we can do them
<mdke> too much time required
<Madpilot> the translator teams are going to have to do them, along with their text translations
<Burgundavia> mdke, oh ya, that
<Madpilot> Burgundavia: just a thought, maybe you should figure out what screenshots you want, and produce a spec sheet for them to go along with the text?
<Burgundavia> Madpilot, the spec would be "duplicate the english screenshot", with instructions for the tricky ones
<Madpilot> Burgundavia: so you're going to produce 'draft' screenshots to go out with the translation packs, and do final ones after whatever relevant late freeze is past?
<Burgundavia> sweet, gnome already has a guide
<Burgundavia> http://live.gnome.org/ReleaseNotes_2fTranslating
<mdke> yeah it should only be necessary for the shots that are not obviously self explanatory
<Burgundavia> Madpilot, I am not worried about translations for the quicktour, to be honest
<Madpilot> fair enough...
<mdke> why?
<Burgundavia> it would be nice, but it is not a mission critical piece of docs
<mdke> i think it would be very nice indeed
<mdke> locoteams can put the doc on their websites
<Burgundavia> it is a marketing doc, nobody is going to not be able to do $foo if it doesn't get translated for release
<mdke> marketing should be done in more languages than english though IMO
<Burgundavia> yes it should, but the primary translating focus should be the faqguide
<mdke> I'm sure the quicktour will not take up a lot of translators time
<mdke> about-ubuntu was translated in about a day for many languages
<Burgundavia> Madpilot, do you see adds on cbc.ca?
<Burgundavia> s/adds/ads
<Madpilot> nope
<Madpilot> got an adblocker working in Opera now - it's a bit of a hack, but it's usually cool
<Burgundavia> mdke, you got adblocking enabled?
<Madpilot> Burgundavia: ewww, Dell ads... (just started FF, haven't been to CBC with it yet...)
<Burgundavia> Madpilot, ok, they are still there
<Madpilot> Burgundavia: across the top on the main page; down the right side on article pages, it seems. Ick.
<Burgundavia> I wrote a very strongly worded letter to CBC and the the MP's about it
<Madpilot> ...and the ads remain... ah well. at least when you adblock the top ad, it collapses neatly rather than leaving a blank rectangle...
<Madpilot> anyway, I need sleep. Later, all.
<mdke> Burgundavia, no
<mdke> night Madpilot 
<Burgundavia> mdke, never mind
<Burgundavia> mdke, the CBC is undergoing a major labour dispute and has apparently decides ads on its webpage is kosher
* Burgundavia wishes the CBC would emulate the beeb more
<mdke> :D
<Burgundavia> night all
<WaterSevenUb> mdke, hey... in what context appears these strings to translate in the FAQ guide?   : "Split this FAQ Guide into multiple files to make it easier to edit. Also put this revision history in the correct order."
<WaterSevenUb> mdke, "   	  	Align with Unofficial Ubuntu Guide 3.04"....
<WaterSevenUb> those are strings that will not appear to the user right?
<mdke> WaterSevenUb, correct, they are just revisions
<jsgotangco> hi
<jbailey> jsgotangco: hi
<jbailey> jsgotangco: You're up late. =)
<jsgotangco> hey
<jsgotangco> its only 11pm
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> i've been busy pimping at linuxworld
<jsgotangco> so i haven't been around that much
<jbailey> linuxworld?
<jbailey> Where's that this year?
<jsgotangco> nahh its the local linux world event
<jsgotangco> we always have a linuxworld here too
<jsgotangco> jbailey: i think its going to be in San francisco next year
<jsgotangco> i have a cool pic i'll post it when i get to scan it later
<jsgotangco> heh
<jbailey> Ah, a bit far to trek to for me.
<jbailey> Although I love the bay area.
<jsgotangco> the linuxworld here is silly though
<jsgotangco> it had microsoft as a major sponsor
<jbailey> !!! =)
<mdke> argh
<mdke> i might put some translations in branches/breezy
<mdke> there are quite a lot of about-ubuntu done already
<jsgotangco> yeah they had 3 booth babes, good thing i got my ubuntu shirt from udu today they were actually  giving out pics
<jsgotangco> i have me a pic in my udu shirt with 3 MS booth babes wearing their MS halters
<jsgotangco> mdke: you can probably overwrite the existing ones it is a breezy branch anyways
<mdke> yes i will
<mdke> jbailey, do you fancy seeing if you can get them into the package?
<jsgotangco> i haven't checked the status of about ubuntu in rosetta
* jsgotangco checks now
<mdke> it's good
<mdke> loads of languages
<jsgotangco> mdke: how come some still have 1 todo?
<mdke> jsgotangco, because they do
<jsgotangco> wonder what string is that
<jsgotangco> even dutch has 1 todo
<mdke> it varies
<jsgotangco> portugues
<mdke> spanish has left out "translator-credits"
<mdke> pt_BR has left out a large paragraph about gnome
<jsgotangco> w00t we have hebrew now!
<jsgotangco> serbian! romanian!
<mdke> etc
<mdke> yep
* mdke waits for his exported po files
<jjesse> mdke:  thanks for fixing the typo i made i kuserguide :)
<mdke> np
<mdke> what country code is fa?
<jsgotangco> fa as language?
<mdke> must be persian
<jsgotangco> farsi
<jsgotangco> most probably
<jbailey> mdke: Sorry, I hadn't noticed this window, lemme scroll back.
<jbailey> mdke: Sure.  How do I get them out of Rosetta?
<jbailey> =)
<jsgotangco> mdke will pull it out and transform it back to xml and commit?
<mdke> jbailey, i'm getting them
<mdke> me me me
<jbailey> w00h00
<jbailey> I still need to upload ubuntu-docs
<jbailey> Sorry I'm behind on this, guys.
<mdke> np
<jsgotangco> np
<jsgotangco> how about the scrollkeeper bit?
<mdke> i'm going to limit my role to getting them from rosetta and making xml
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> ok i can probably do the omf files
<mdke> some of them are there already so you should be able to copy
<jsgotangco> mdke: sure but it'll still be edited/reviewed for correctness in the install path
<jsgotangco> and probably generate a new id
<mdke> shit
<mdke> there is a bug in about-ubuntu.xml still
<jsgotangco> eh?
<mdke> if you open it in yelp, and go to the participate page, the icon that should only be on the first page is at the bottom
<jsgotangco> its like that in hoary
<jsgotangco> i never had the chance to tweak it
<jsgotangco> <caption> should have been there instead
<mdke> can you sort it?
<jsgotangco> well not at this time but its trivial for one doc...
<jsgotangco> let me check the correct syntax for it
<mdke> k
<jsgotangco> we'll probably end up editing the xml for even the translated doc for 1 or 2 lines
<mdke> if you fix it in the original, we'll be ok
<jsgotangco> upload a new pot then?
<jsgotangco> ok gimme till tommorow when you wake up
<highvoltage> i find lots of references on the wiki and site to the ubuntu manifesto, but i can't find the actual manifesto. does anyone have a link for me?
<jsgotangco> now that you mention it...
<highvoltage> now that i mention it?
<jsgotangco> i dont know either...
<mdke> jbailey, ok I've uploaded some xml files for some of the finished translations to the branch
<jbailey> mdke: Cool, thanks!
<jsgotangco> jbailey: you still have that blue highlight in your hair?
<jbailey> jsgotangco: Most of them have fallen out now.  I think I have 2 or 3 left.
<jbailey> jsgotangco: I'll be getting them redone in October, probably.
<jsgotangco> heh
<jbailey> Since it was my first set, I didn't know how to take care of them terribly well.  I lost 2 in the first two weeks, and a few others shortly after that from general abuse.
<jsgotangco> im thinking of getting something done with my hair it has grown since udu
<jbailey> Nice.
<jbailey> Getting the blue streaks wsa the first time I'd done anything fun with my hair.
<jbailey> I figure it's the end of my quarter-life crisis or so.
<jsgotangco> haha
<mdke> heh
<jsgotangco> good night everyone =)
#ubuntu-doc 2005-09-21
<jjesse> besides the email Riddell sent out is there a Kubuntu Breezy release notes?
<Riddell> jjesse: no, just the e-mail and the Known Problems wiki page
<Riddell> jjesse: adept has passed new and is currently in main inclusion
<Riddell> jjesse: so it's still an open question if it'll be in breezy I'm afraid
<jjesse> Riddell: thanks for both answers
<jjesse> Riddell should i use kpakcage for the docs ?
<Riddell> jjesse: no, kynaptic or adept
<Riddell> adept would be more hopeful
<jjesse> Riddell: ok 
<jjesse> Riddell: then i guess i will go to work on cleaning up the release notes 
<Riddell> jjesse: which release notes?
<jjesse> Riddell: that are currently in svn
<jjesse> Riddell: http://ubuntu-doc.ath.cx/kde/krelease-notes/C/kreleasenotes.html  is the current preview
<Riddell> jjesse: excellent!
<jjesse> Riddell: those were written already, i just started looking at it
<Riddell> not entirely accurate, but pretty cool
<Riddell> I need to go to bed but we should look over these at some point
<jjesse> ok i was going to start w/ the basic section on upgrade notes and we can chat about the rest
<jsgotangco> morning people
<Burgundavia> salut jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> hey Burgundavia what's up
<Burgundavia> not much
<Burgundavia> been daydreaming/brainstorming about an OEM pack
<Burgundavia> what would need to be in it, etc.
<jsgotangco> we're supposed to have an OEM installer right
<Burgundavia> it would contain cds,docs on how to set up the isntaller, multicast installation, marketing materials, etc.
<Burgundavia> yes we do have one
<jsgotangco> hrmmmm
<Burgundavia> not that easy to use currently
<jsgotangco> MS has this OEM system builder thing
<Burgundavia> yes
<jsgotangco> i have a pack i can look into it
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, sweet
<jsgotangco> i haven't really delved into the OEM installer but i can do it this weekend
<jsgotangco> LWC has been eating time
<Burgundavia> the oem installer is not documented anywhere currently
<jsgotangco> hrrmmmm
<Burgundavia> apparently there will be a new version that allows running of the oem installer from the regular installer, ala the server install
<Burgundavia> I was talking to Kamion about it
<jsgotangco> for dapper?
<Burgundavia> no, for breezy
<jsgotangco> hrmmm
<jsgotangco> you mean we'll have breezy.5?
<Burgundavia> no
<jsgotangco> oh it will go in then
<Burgundavia> it is just a minor option to allow easier OEM installs
<Burgundavia> we also need a good multicast server implementation for installs
<jsgotangco> mmm
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, is this something that you are interested in as well?
* Burgundavia also wants the pack to take to local computer stores
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> i'll look at it later i have a talk in an hour
<Burgundavia> cool
<jsgotangco> yeah LinuxWorld here has been spiffy
* Burgundavia is jealous
<jjesse> in order to get the validate.sh to work what package do i have to have installed?
<Burgundavia> all the big trades shows are back east or in the US
<jsgotangco> well there's not much FOSS people here so there's always a core group
<jsgotangco> but it has been changing
<alexv> Hi, I noticed an oddly worded section in Chapter 1 of the Ubuntu Users Guide. There's a line that reads    "If you've reached this page I assume you either heard the news about it and want to install and get it up and running although being not sure how to go about it."     Shouldn't that be "not being sure" instead of "being not sure"?
<Burgundavia> bon soir, robitaille 
<robitaille> hello Burgundavia 
<robitaille> cool, my wife got a odt document in an email from a friend of her.  that's a first.  I actually had to look it up to figure out what it was
<robitaille> OOo2 reads it.  Not sure if OOo1 on Hoary can
<rob^> omg.. life
<Burgundavia> robitaille, the new OO1's sould be able to
<robitaille> yes.  But my wife uses a computer with Hoary.   I'll have to try it out. wikepedia seems to imply only 1.1.5 reads it.
<Burgundavia> yes
<robitaille> but I'm still amaze that she got this format instead of the usual .doc file
<Burgundavia> expect more of them
<Madpilot> hi all
<Burgundavia> salut Madpilot 
<Madpilot> hi Burgundavia
<Burgundavia> Madpilot, scorched3d is now installed by has no sound
<Burgundavia> and tha tis phone
<Treenaks> Is there a reason that the entire changelog, the Creative Commons license and the GFDL are in Rosetta for the FAQ Guide
<Burgundavia> Treenaks, hmm
<Treenaks> because those licenses have official translations.. and re-translating is pointless
<Burgundavia> Treenaks, I have no idea
<Treenaks> Burgundavia: so, who do I talk to to get it fixed? :)
<Burgundavia> Treenaks, mdke is probably the best bet
<Treenaks> Burgundavia: ok
<Treenaks> mdke: are you reading this? :)
* Treenaks waits for the planet to align ;)
<Burgundavia> Treenaks, mdke should come online soon. Is 8am where he lives
<Treenaks> Burgundavia: 8:39 probably then :)
<Burgundavia> ya
* Treenaks skips pag 15 of GFDL
<Treenaks> mdke: also, commands shouldn't be in there ("sudo apt-get update" is the same everywhere.. some placeholders may not be, but you could mark only those commands)
<mdke> Treenaks, hello
<Treenaks> mdke: hi :) did you read the backlog
<Treenaks> ?
<mdke> some of it
<mdke> there is not a lot we can do
<Treenaks> mdke: Well, especially the part about there being too many strings (i.e. the entire GFDL and CC licenses) in rosetta
<mdke> i think the licences should be left in english
<Treenaks> mdke: can't you mark stuff as "don't put in rosetta" ?
<mdke> Treenaks, not to my knowledge
<Treenaks> sounds like a wishlist item then ;)
<mdke> because we expand the identities in the documents, it means that the licences went in there
<Treenaks> mdke: it also means that everyone will have to skip ~ 10 pages of licence crap to get to the actual document text
<Treenaks> mdke: which sucks :)
<mdke> i'll ask around and see if there is anything we can do
<Treenaks> cool, thanks
<mdke> Treenaks, if they mark the licence crap as translated (copy over the English) then they won't have to skip it
<Treenaks> mdke: true..
<mdke> Treenaks, ok I'll let you know
<dand> is there a deadline for ubuntu-doc translation freeze?
<mdke> nope
<mdke> sooner the better of course
<dand> ok, so we can be sure that any corrections done today will be included in the release
<mdke> that is correc
<mdke> t
<dand> k, thanks!
<mdke> significantly later than today in fact
<dand> :)
<mdke> translations are looking good for about-ubuntu
<mdke> a lot of templates have just 1 translation outstanding however :/
<Treenaks> mdke: yes, the translator-credits
<Treenaks> mdke: which should be automatic
<mdke> Treenaks, actually that is not the outstanding voice for all the templates
<mdke> on some it is though
<mdke> Treenaks, so that should be automatic eh?
<mdke> what can we do to fix that?
<Treenaks> poke launchpad people :)
* Treenaks off
<mdke> Treenaks, can't the translators fill it in themselves?
<mpt> mdke: No, because "translator-credits" is a single line, so Rosetta thinks it should be a single line, but the "translation" needs to be multiple lines, one for each person
<mdke> mpt, hmm, is this a bug with our template, or with rosetta?
<mpt> bug in Rosetta
<mdke> ok
<mdke> mpt, can you think of a workaround?
<mpt> <a href="https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/116">https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/116</a>
<mpt> oh, silly Gaim
<mdke> ok got it
<mpt> not that I know of
<mdke> k thanks
<jsgotangco> hey all
<jsgotangco> jbailey: dude i won an RHCE training and exam pack
<jsgotangco> heh
<jbailey> Nice!
<jbailey> The exams are apparently really hard.
<jbailey> Have a huge practical component
<jsgotangco> yeah well i have the end of the year to take it anyways
<jsgotangco> jbailey: it'll help for sure
<jbailey> Like 3 months?
<jbailey> That's brutal short.
<jsgotangco> not possible?
<jsgotangco> gahhh
<jbailey> It's possible, sure.
<jbailey> Just a bit presumptuous that yo uhappen to have time free RIGHT NOW, DAMMIT
<jbailey> =)
<jsgotangco> lol
<jbailey> Novell and Cisco voutures are usualy good for a year.
<jsgotangco> ahh well LinuxWorld over here was pretty cool..actually very good for a first effort
<jsgotangco> good night
#ubuntu-doc 2005-09-22
<robotgeek> hi..question. what do i do with stuff like this. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BrianWiese
<robotgeek> found it in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VimSyntaxHighlighting/talk
<ajmitch> looks like a personal page
<ajmitch> so leave it
<robotgeek> okay. looking to make a vim page with all vim links in it
<ajmitch> I guess it shouldn't be a subpage of that
<ajmitch> so reparent?
<robotgeek> i dunno why it's there in the first place. 
<Burglaptop> mpt, ping
<Madpilot> hi Burglaptop
<Burglaptop> salut Madpilot 
<Burglaptop> bonsoir robitaille 
<robitaille> hey Burglaptop!
* robitaille is scanning the hundred of bug report changes that have occured in the last 24 hours...
<ajmitch> robitaille: quite a few, aren't there? :)
<robitaille> it's a good thing
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> thanks for writing up that announcement to make it possible :)
<robitaille> no problem.    
<Burglaptop> rob^, can I suggest a quick change to the faqguide? we can remove totem-xine for the list of things to install. Gstreamer appears to work.
<Burglaptop> rob^, and totem-xine simply means that they have to get w32codecs
<robitaille> I discovered this week that installing gstreamer0.8-plugins gstreamer0.8-plugins-multiverse allowed me to play some things in totem that I could play previously using w32codecs
<Burglaptop> yes, I just discovered that too
<Burglaptop> .mpg and the trailers from trailers.apple
<Burglaptop> I think gstreamer is now as complete as xine
<Burglaptop> but I have no sound with the totem plugin
<robitaille> haven't tried the plugins;  I was testing it using a the stand-alone client.  let me try one
<robitaille> same here; no sounds on one of the apple trailer using the plugin
<Burglaptop> hmm
<robitaille> Burglaptop,  using totem-xine results in no image and no sounds using the plugin inb the trailers.apple site.  So I guess gstreamer is 50% better; but not perfect.
<Burglaptop> robitaille, you need w32codecs
<robitaille> yeah I guess.  the point of the exercise in my mind was to try to find a way  away from installing w32codecs.   for the amount of multimedia I do, I'll stick with gstreamer.  But for users in general, I guess you still have to suggest using totem-xine since it still works better
<Burglaptop> yes, but we also tell the user to install all the gstreamer stuff
<rob^> hi, whats that?
<rob^> at the moment the list is:
<rob^> Libraries (multiverse) > gstreamer0.8-plugins-multiverse
<rob^> Libraries (universe) > gstreamer0.8-plugins
<rob^> Libraries (universe) > gstreamer0.8-ffmpeg
<rob^> Libraries (universe) > gstreamer0.8-mad
<rob^> Multimedia > vorbis-tools
<rob^> Multimedia (multiverse) > lame
<rob^> Multimedia (multiverse) > faad
<rob^> Multimedia (multiverse) > gstreamer0.8-lame
<rob^> Multimedia (universe) > sox
<rob^> Graphics (multiverse) > mjpegtools
<rob^> Graphics (universe) > ffmpeg 
<rob^> GNOME Desktop Enviroment (universe) > totem-xine
<rob^> (sorry for the paste!)
<rob^> so you want to remove totem-xine? does video now play smoothly without it?
<rob^> brb
<Burglaptop> rob^, we install totem-xine, which doesn't use all the gstreamer plugins we just installed
<Burglaptop> let me get you a patch
<Burglaptop> rob^, I forgot to review it
<Burglaptop> we should only need to install 3 things
<rob^> true, but one day we will use all the gstreamer stuff, it just doesn't work all that well yet
<Burglaptop> rob^, it actually does on fresh installs
<rob^> unless something has changed again lately
<Burglaptop> rob^, robitaille and I were just testing it
<rob^> what about totem-gstreamer?
<Burglaptop> that is what we were just testing
<rob^> thats the default right? does it work well/smooth?
<robotgeek> i tried both totem-gstreamer/totem-xine. totem-xine works better
<rob^> I wonder how that will affect translations though
<Burglaptop> rob^, yes, gstreamer is the default
<rob^> last time I checked it was painfully slow
<Burglaptop> robotgeek, -gstreamer has made great strides in breezy
<robotgeek> Burglaptop: doesn't rhythmbox use gstreamer? it skips while playing an mp3 :(
<robitaille> personally I findgstreamer is still a bit on the slow side on my laptop
<Burglaptop> robotgeek, yes it does
<rob^> yeah, I get a bit of choppyness with rhythmbox when my system is under a little bit of load
<Burglaptop> yes, but gstreamer is only patent illegal, not copyright illegal as well, ala w32codecs
<Burglaptop> and multiverse is easier to add than hoary-extras
<rob^> I wish there was a better way then w32codecs, but I fail to see one
<Burglaptop> it appears to me that there is
<rob^> does gstreamer support everything that w32codecs does?
<Burglaptop> should, with multiverse plugins
<robitaille> Burglaptop,  I'm all for suggesting to use gstreamer, but my test earlier on trailers.apple didn't produce any sounds for the trailer I was looking at using only stuff from multiverse
* rob^ can see some translators getting really pissy if we go and change things though
<robitaille> it's a bit late  in the game to make that switch, isn't it?
<Burglaptop> robitaille, that is likely a totem bug, not a specific gstreamer one
<Burglaptop> rob^, that is my bad, I forgot to review it throughly for saneness
<robitaille> Burglaptop,  or a missing codec in multiverse for the audio track of these trailers
<Burglaptop> unlikely
<Burglaptop> let me test by downloading
<robotgeek> unfortunately, can't help u guys here..i am on ppc
<robitaille> I have faced very recently 2 videos that were only video, no audio, due to codecs issues.  one was solved by using vlc, the other by using w32codecs
<rob^> got a url for that apple movie that was causing problems?
<robitaille> http://trailers.apple.com/trailers/newline/the_man/theMan240.html
<rob^> yeah it runs ok with w32codecs and totem-xine
<robitaille> but I got no sounds using totem-gstreamer will all the multiverse plugins installed.
<Burglaptop> ok, fails to play
<Burglaptop> hmm
<Burglaptop> but we should cleanup the installation stuff
<rob^> yeah, same looks like its no good
<Burglaptop> we only need to install 3 things
<Burglaptop> sox and the non gstreamer stuff can die
<rob^> nah
<rob^> you still need lame, faad and others for stuff
<rob^> ffmpeg
<Burglaptop> you do, but gstreamer0.8-plugins-multiverse will get all that for you
<rob^> about the only one that could die is sox
<Burglaptop> and -plugins will get the stuff from universe
<rob^> not everything uses gstreamer that needs those packages though
<Burglaptop> and -ffmpeg, because that isn
<Burglaptop> 't in the other three
<rob^>  Multimedia (multiverse) > lame
<rob^> Multimedia (multiverse) > faad
<rob^> these ones I mean
<Burglaptop> those ones will come with -plugins-multiverse
<Burglaptop> trust me
<rob^> I know there are gstreamer ones, but they suck
<Burglaptop> the gstreamer ones use lame and fadd
<Burglaptop> they are just wrappers around the existing code
<rob^> grr multimedia sucks on linux doesn't it?
<Burglaptop> yes
<robotgeek> on ppc, very much :(
<rob^> it would be nice if you could just install a package called "codecs" and everything is done for you
<robitaille> Burglaptop,  gstreamer0.8-ffmpeg is not included in gstreamer0.8-plugins ...
<Burglaptop> rob^, you almost can
<Burglaptop> robitaille, yes I know
<Burglaptop> rob^, you only need 3 meta packages
<rob^> hang on, let me try removing w32codecs and just using gstreamer
<rob^> I removed everything without gstreamer next to it except totem-xine
<Burglaptop> you need totem-gstreamer and those plugin packages, plug ffmpeg
<rob^> Ok, so I removed lame faad ffmpeg sox mjpegtools vorbis-tools and w32codecs, but not totem-xine
<rob^> that apple trailer plays but without sound
<Burglaptop> ok
<rob^> if I remove totem-xine and install totem-gstreamer, it doesn't play at all
<rob^> so we at least need w32codecs for quicktime
<rob^> and totem-xine because the gstreamer one sucks
<robitaille> did you noticed a difference in speed between totem-xine and totem-gstreamer?
<rob^> robitaille, yes, one works one doesnt
<rob^> :)
<rob^> does dvdrip use gstreamer yet?
* rob^ takes a look, it doesn't depend on any of that anyway
<robitaille> rob^,  totem-gstreamer worked for me but no sounds;  and video seemed a bit slow.
<rob^> it does suggest mjpegtools though
<rob^> well, I say we leave it, currently its the best working option if the user installs w32codecs and even if they dont
<rob^> we just need to make sure RestrictedFormats on the wiki is up to scratch and easy to follow
<rob^> for w32codecs anywya
<rob^> s/anywya/anyway
<rob^> ok, bbl
<rob^> grr downloader for X still isn't working
<ajmitch> rob^: can you give more info on malone #2340?
<ajmitch> since it looks like it was apache that failed, rather than anything in your report :)
<Burglaptop> rob^, hopefully dapper will solve much of this
<Burglaptop> night all
<rob^> http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2340
<rob^> ajmitch, on that one?
<ajmitch> malone
<rob^> grr I wish we just used one bts
<ajmitch> we will
<robitaille> rob^,  I have tried 2340, and it works fine now.
<rob^> I did it yesterday
<rob^> I ended up getting it working by just running the apt-get again
<ajmitch> ok
<rob^> I think its just because things are not configured in the right order
<robitaille> humm...but I have apache2 already installed on my machine.  installing usermin worked for me on the 1st try
<rob^> anyone know where I can find some information on yelp?
<robitaille> yelp yelp    :)
* robitaille is tired and making bad jokes...
<robitaille> http://directory.fsf.org/text/doc/yelp.html points to some urls, but notihng obvious documentation-wise
<rob^> there is a couple of bounties on the gnome web site at the bottom of this page: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2340
<rob^> grr
<rob^> http://www.gnome.org/bounties/Documentation.html
<rob^> that page
<rob^> :-*
<rob^> hmm, gaim and irc..
<mdke> morning all
<Madpilot> hi mdke
<robotgeek> hi mdke Madpilot 
<rob^> hello
<mdke> hi there
<mdke> rob^, how is your translation of the faqguide going?
<rob^> well, I've kind of come to the conclusion that seeing as I'm an aussie and I understand everything there, it doesn't really need translating into AU english
<robotgeek> makes sense to me
<rob^> I noticed the same thing on evolution also
<Madpilot> rob^: so you'll just add "G'day, mate!" to the top, and call it translated into AU_en? ;)
* mdke nods
<rob^> heh yeah, I was thinking of pulling out an aussie slang dictionary out..
<Madpilot> ... and I'll add "eh?" to the end of every 2nd sentance, and call it translated into CA_en... ;)
<rob^> might of been humourous
<rob^> haha
<mdke> has anyone noticed that there is no option in nautilus to have the address bar there for browser mode?
<mdke> i hate the way that gnome always have to bugger something up for every release
<rob^> there is a "places" bar
<Madpilot> actually, maybe I'll thrash out a "Canadian translation" for the UBZ folks...
<rob^> haha
<rob^> I wish I was going :(
<mdke> rob^, yes, and you can get the address with go->location but you can't set it to always show up like that, unless you edit a gconf key
<rob^> mdke, ah yeah I see
<rob^> I tend to use the xterm for everything, so never really noticed
<mdke> i use nautilus a lot
<rob^> why the heck did they remove it?
<Madpilot> the Gnome "Open File" dialogue box already used buttons, so Nautilus has been changed to match, I think
<mdke> rob^, cos they suck
<rob^> Madpilot, pretty much
<rob^> mdke, yep
<rob^> I think I've found a solution to having svn access at work
<mdke> use linux?
<rob^> hehe apart from that
<Madpilot> I sort of like the buttons; fastest way to move up a directory tree. Not sure how I'm going to like them in Naut, though... (not running Breezy yet...)
<rob^> I'm talking a solution that uses an nt4 box without installing anything
<rob^> I got webmin going on my home box and pointed a domain name I own at it
<rob^> It was a bit painful, but I now have buttons in webmin that do "svn up", "svn commit" and stuff
<mdke> heh cool
<mdke> i guess you could just use putty dude
<rob^> nah, basted firewall
<mdke> run an ssh server on a different port?
<rob^> I was thinking of using some tunneling software to get out, but this method doesn't break any work IT policies
<mdke> ah
<rob^> nah, all ports are ssh/telnet blocked
<mdke> jeez
<mdke> i'm starting a new job next week
<mdke> i ran em up, to ask about computer compatibility and the guy was chuffed when he heard that I ran linux
<mdke> i was worried I might have to install windows :)
<rob^> I was going to tunnel over ICMP or DNS, but I don't know how I would explain all that traffic
<mdke> heh
<Madpilot> rob^: where do you work that's so locked down?
<rob^> err
<mdke> that's classified
<mdke> he'd have to kill you
<rob^> hehe
* rob^ tippytoes around that one
<Madpilot> heh. never mind, then... 
<mdke> he works for microsoft
<rob^> yeah, thats it
<rob^> we still use nt4
<mdke> man that faqguide is gonna take a while to translate
<rob^> we distribute xp for all the suckers
<rob^> yeah
<Madpilot> a friend figures NT4 is the only stable OS Redmond ever managed to produce... :|
<rob^> Burgundavia wanted to make some changes before, I was like: I dunno about that
<mdke> to XP?
<rob^> yeah nt4 is so secure, only because of it so old and new worms etc don't work on it :)
<rob^> umm great english that
<Madpilot> like Win98 is "secure" these days...
<rob^> check out the list of breezy badger translations https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+translations
<rob^> a while to go yet!
<rob^> hehe: Release Date:
<rob^> When it's done. 
<mdke> hmm
<mdke> my touchpad is crazy
<mdke> i turned the sensitivity down to minimum in the mouse preferences, and it is still flying around the screen
* mdke goes off to bugzilla
<robotgeek> mdke: maybe u need to do some think in your xorg
<mdke> robotgeek, i don't play with configuration
<mdke> if it doesn't work out of the box, it's a bug
<robotgeek> mdke: :)
<robotgeek> makes sense
<Madpilot> there's a translation project into Old English? um... OK... 
<rob^> hehe
<rob^> ouch
<mdke> awesome!
<Madpilot> Esperanto, too...
<rob^> and ye click ye olde OK button
<robotgeek> klingon?
<rob^> robotgeek, yes
<robotgeek> i know it's there...crazy!
<Madpilot> yeah, Klingon too...
<rob^> only for tuxpaint though
<rob^> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+lang/tlh
<Madpilot> no Tolkien Elvish languages, though...
<Madpilot> artist Klingons, evidently...
<rob^> yes
<mdke> lol
<mdke> the sensitive klingons
<rob^> dam I have never even heard of half of thouse languages
<rob^> those*
<rob^> dam rsi
<Madpilot> 6 varieties of Spanish; 4 of Chinese; 3 of Arabic; 5 of English (plus Old English)... wow.
<mdke> Madpilot, i have to say, i think it's a waste of people's time to translate into variations of English
<Madpilot> yeah. Even Australians can be understood, with a bit of effort! ;)
<mdke> i've never had a problem understanding US or AU or whatever
<mdke> omg
<mdke> i forgot to gloat about the Ashes to rob^ 
* mdke gloats
<rob^> omg someone has translated the bible into klingon too
<rob^> yeah.. go to hell :P
<mdke> :)
<Madpilot> rob^: Shakespeare, too, I've heard
<Madpilot> what is "Interlingua"? Another artificial lang. like Esperanto?
<Madpilot> it's a constructed language - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interlingua
<Madpilot> interesting
<rob^> grr the klingons have no word for "pink"
<Madpilot> why am I not surprised? It's just not a very Klingon colour...
<ajmitch> rob^: that matters? :)
<Madpilot> night all - it's 0215 here, need sleep - working Saturdays bites....
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia: are you already awake?
<mdke> hi jsgotangco 
<rob^> mdke, do you know whats going on with the xincludes in the faq guide?
<mdke> no idea
<rob^> the faq guide doesn't build properly using the scripts
<jsgotangco> hi
<rob^> it just puts the tags in
<jsgotangco> darn im so tired
<jsgotangco> i hvaen't been doing anything productive for the docteam
<jsgotangco> these talks are just punishing to the health
<jsgotangco> im going to take a rest first
<jsgotangco> brb
<rob^> jbailey, is it too early to get a docs package released in Breezy that works properly (registed in) in yelp? 
<rob^> registered.. brr its cold here tonight!
<rob^> umm even if it only contains the english version of the FAQ guide for now?
<jbailey> rob^: No, I've just been lagged.  It's on my todo for this weekend.
<jbailey> I'm just trying to motivate myself to do work things right now.
<rob^> ah ok sounds good, I just wanted to see it in action (how exciting!)
<rob^> Burgundavia, you there?
<dholbach> hellas
<dholbach> is gnome-bittorrent featured somewhere?
<dholbach> in the docs?
<dholbach> i'd like to change the menu entry for it
<dholbach> to say "BitTorrent" instead of "GNOME BitTorrent"
<dholbach> you think that 'll be a problem?
<dholbach> i'm off - see you guys
#ubuntu-doc 2005-09-23
<Burglaptop> bon soir, robitaille 
<robitaille> hello Burglaptop 
<Burglaptop> NM works!
<Burglaptop> robitaille, are we an approved loco team (ca)
<robitaille> Burglaptop,  I don't think so.    
<Burglaptop> robitaille, what needs to happen for that?
<robitaille> an approved team is one that appears to be a team, at least according to an email from Matthias a few weeks back.  Until now, I don't think we have done enough to reach that goal.
<robitaille> once a team seems to be a "real" team, then he moves you up in the loco wiki page
<robitaille> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamList
<robitaille> personally I don't disagree with that conclusion based on our activities in recent months
* robitaille is searching for that email from smurfix
<Burglaptop> robitaille, parsing through LocoTeam, it is a good read
<robitaille> by the way, you are on their mailing list yet?  loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com
<Burglaptop> will be soon
<Burglaptop> am now
<robitaille> oh maybe it wan't an email, but a comment in  an old CC meeting... 
<robitaille> s/wan't/wasn't
<robitaille> do we keep dates of old CC meetings somewhere on the wiki?
<Burglaptop> I will follow up on the Ubuntu Love Day at UBZ tomorrow
<Burglaptop> ouch, that is a lot of old log parsing
<Burglaptop> anyway, I have to sleep now
<Burglaptop> night
<robitaille> Burglaptop,  still here?
<robitaille> I'll send you an email
<mdke> morn
<mdke> hey jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> hey
<mdke> damn that change of terminal
<jsgotangco> yes
<mdke> i think we should fix it
<jsgotangco> along with the relocation of Add Applications
<mdke> you?
<jsgotangco> i have no idea how may strings are affected
<mdke> we had warning of those from sabdfl before they made the changes, he asked in case they affected docs
<jsgotangco> oh right
<jsgotangco> damn my reply
<jsgotangco> please correct me
<mdke> i dunno how many strings are affected either
<mdke> probably loads
<mdke> jsgotangco, so are we going to fix about-ubuntu?
<mdke> it is quite a serious error IMO
<jsgotangco> it has been an error since warty
<mdke> it is very ugly right now
<jsgotangco> yes because its so big
* mdke nods
<jsgotangco> but if we use a small image, its uglier
<mdke> is there no way to put it outside the title?
<jsgotangco> i tried it putting on subtitle but i got errors
<mdke> maybe even after the subtitle?
<jsgotangco> yes that's the only way to go if we still include the logo
<mdke> let me see how it looks
<mdke> what tag is needed to put it after the subtitle?
<jsgotangco> haven't you noticed all docs in yelp don't have an image on the front/title
<mdke> i don't look at yelp a lot ;)
<jsgotangco> lol
<mdke> it might be that the best solution is to remove the image
<jsgotangco> let me check my wc
<jsgotangco> i'd move for removal
<mdke> ok i'm happy with that
<jsgotangco> it doesn't affect the overall doc content just the look
<mdke> shall we remove it and post to the list?
<mdke> if there are objections we can revoke
<jsgotangco> gimme a minute heh i'm booting up my other laptop and look at the wc
<jsgotangco> i should probably email shaun m and ask his opinon about this
<mdke> y?
<jsgotangco> for future fixes =)
<jsgotangco> make the caption become the navigation tag =)
<mdke> ah not sure
<mdke> so what shall we do?
<jsgotangco> because if you notice in yelp, the caption appeared on the side
<jsgotangco> but not at the bottom navigation
<jsgotangco> ahhh
<jsgotangco> i got it
<jsgotangco> it looks better
<mdke> ok
<mdke> upload?
<jsgotangco> i can't my networks not even running because of the lack of internet
<jsgotangco> im on a phone line
<jsgotangco> mdke: just move the whole <inlinemediaobject> block from <title> to <subtitle>
<mdke> ok
<jsgotangco> and enclose the string "About Ubuntu" inside <title>
<jsgotangco> the image becomes the subtitle
<mdke> so, <title>About Ubuntu</title>?
<jsgotangco> yes
<mdke> and <subtitle>Welcome to Ubuntu <image stuff></subtitle>?
<mdke> or remove the subtitle text?
<jsgotangco> remove the string
<jsgotangco> it doesn't need one anymore
<jsgotangco> because of the caption
<jsgotangco> if there is no image the caption is shown
<mdke> ok pasting in here
<mdke>     <title>About Ubuntu</title>
<mdke> 	<subtitle>
<mdke>         <inlinemediaobject>
<mdke>             <imageobject>
<mdke>                 <imagedata fileref="../../images/&language;/UbuntuLogo.png" format="PNG"/>
<mdke>             </imageobject>
<mdke>         </inlinemediaobject>
<mdke> 	</subtitle>
<mdke> which caption?
<jsgotangco> there's no <caption>?
<mdke> no i don't see one
<jsgotangco> strange my source has one
<jsgotangco> its supposed to be under <imageobject>
<mdke> i'm in branches/breezy
<jsgotangco> ah right
<jsgotangco> hrmmm
<mdke> maybe you put it in your wc
<jsgotangco> this is a terribly old copy
<mdke> ok gimme the caption
<jsgotangco> ok just put <caption>Ubuntu Logo</caption>
<mdke> where?
<jsgotangco> after </imageobject>
<mdke> k
<jsgotangco> i'll co branch tommorow when the phone company fixes my line
<mdke> it doesn't validate
<jsgotangco> gyahh
<mdke> this is what I have:
<mdke> (pasting)
<mdke>     <title>About Ubuntu</title>
<mdke> 	<subtitle>
<mdke>         <inlinemediaobject>
<mdke>             <imageobject>
<mdke>                 <imagedata fileref="../../images/&language;/UbuntuLogo.png" format="PNG"/>
<mdke>             </imageobject>
<mdke> 		<caption>Ubuntu Logo</caption>
<mdke>         </inlinemediaobject>
<mdke> 	</subtitle>
<jsgotangco> i guess it does not follow the DTD
<mdke> it doesn't like it
<jsgotangco> yeah
<mdke> let's scrap the image
<jsgotangco> there's not supposed to be an image on subtitle
<jsgotangco> but it'll open in yelp hehehe
<jsgotangco> how crackful can you get
<mdke> removing the image works for me
<mdke> what do you think?
<jsgotangco> eeekkk the other method is uglier, lets just scrap the image
<jsgotangco> ive tried putting it in the body
<jsgotangco> horrible
<mdke> how come the second page has the title on it, but the third doesn't?
<jsgotangco> should be
<jsgotangco> Welcome to Ubuntu
<mdke> nope
<jsgotangco> 1. Welcome to Ubuntu
<jsgotangco> 2. Participate in Ubuntu
<jsgotangco> 3. Core Components
<mdke> i mean
<mdke> the first two pages have the title of the whole document on
<mdke> the third doesn't
<mdke> hence the image was on the first and second pages, but not the third
<jsgotangco> what the heck
* jsgotangco wished we had a browser-based live editor
<mdke> so what are we gonna do, remove the image?
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> it'll fix everything
<mdke> it will also mean that the firefox home page will not have the image
<mdke> jdub, any thoughts on this? we have an issue with about-ubuntu.xml such that yelp can't show the document properly unless we remove the image
<mdke> if we remove the image, yelp is happy and it looks fine
<mdke> is that a problem for the firefox homepage?
<jdub> hrm, why does the image break in yelp?
<mdke> because it is in the document title, and so it shows on the second page too, and looks silly
<mdke> actually I might have a solution
<mdke> jsgotangco, how about putting the image in the first paragraph of the first page?
<jsgotangco> it doesn't look nice
<mdke> like this:
<mdke> http://mdke.org/au.png
<jsgotangco> there's a toc at the top of the image
<mdke> yes
<mdke> the toc is wrong too :/
<mdke> the first page doesn't have a <sect1>
<mdke> so you think that looks bad?
<jsgotangco> it doesnt look bad..just awkward
<mdke> ok I have made a <sect1> for the first page now, hang on
* mdke fiddles
<mdke> jsgotangco, what about this:
<mdke> http://mdke.org/au.png
<mdke> http://mdke.org/welcome.png
<jsgotangco> err what is About Ubuntu? it now has 4 sections
<mdke> 3 sections
<mdke> no good?
<mdke> that is the only thing I can think of to keep the image
<jdub> mdke: welcome.png looks great
<jsgotangco> yeah but that's not the first page
<jdub> what's on the about ubuntu page?
<jsgotangco> that's the second
<mdke> jdub, just the toc
<jsgotangco> jdub: the toc
<jdub> that's pretty icky
<mdke> yeah
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jdub> the first one looked fine
<mdke> with the toc above the image?
<jsgotangco> yeah that's better than this
<mdke> ok lemme get that one back
<mdke> ok like this?
<mdke> http://mdke.org/au.png
<mdke> jdub, jsgotangco ^
<jsgotangco> this isn't so bad
* mdke nods
<jsgotangco> how come About Ubuntu is too small its supposed to be <title>
<jsgotangco> must be your resolution
<mdke> default breezy install here
<mdke> so shall we go with that?
<mdke> i'd like to see how the html looks
<jsgotangco> pretty bad i'd say
<mdke> what package do I need for the stylesheets?
<jsgotangco> err docbook-xsl methinks
<mdke> alright
<mdke> so any thoughts?
<mdke> can I commit this version?
<jsgotangco> yes please
<mdke> done
<mdke> damn, the image is missing from the built html
<jsgotangco> hrmm
<jsgotangco> i gotta switch
<jsgotangco> brb
<mdke> maybe just a problem with the makefile
<segfault> hi
<segfault> i generated the html file for aboutubuntu doc, however the "Welcome to Ubuntu" is not translated and it is not in the rosetta template
<segfault> it is, however, in the original pot.
<mdke> segfault, maybe you didn't do it right
<mdke> what language?
<mdke> the ones I've downloaded from rosetta and uploaded look ok
<segfault> mdke: pt_BR
<segfault> brazilian portuguese
<segfault> it has 30 strings
<segfault> but the original has 31
<segfault> well, dunno
<segfault> lemme check again
<segfault> :P
<mdke> segfault, you are probably working on the wrong original
<mdke> the correct one is in our breezy branch
<segfault> which is not the same in rosetta?
<mdke> segfault, erm... you need the original xml document in order to convert the translation to an xml file
<mdke> this original is not in rosetta at all
<mdke> it is in our repository
<mdke> under branches/breezy
<segfault> f0ae5a8ba03686fc4be1a87859575167  about-ubuntu.xml
<segfault> this one?
<mdke> not sure
<mdke> where did you find that one?
<segfault> svn checkout https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk ubuntu-doc
<mdke> segfault, no, that is the trunk, the correct file is in branches/breezy
<mdke> segfault, don't worry, we will take care of it
<segfault> i'll get the repo, thanks anyway
<mdke> ok
<segfault> so the breezy one is frozen?
<mdke> yep
<sivang> mdke: ping
<sivang> mdke: I saw your message from yesterday, about rtl in yelp?
<mdke> sivang, that's right but I don't have a lot of time now, could you mail the author of this email if you know how to help?
<mdke> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-doc-devel-list/2005-September/msg00024.html
<mdke> thanks :)
#ubuntu-doc 2005-09-24
<segfault> should we translate the ubuntu logo?
<jeffsch> segfault: ping
<segfault> pong
<jeffsch> segfault: i think i have a solution to your faq guide build problem
<jeffsch> can i send you a makefile so you can test it?
<segfault> sure
<jeffsch> segfault@ubuntu.com?
<segfault> yeap
<jeffsch> ok
<jeffsch> ok, sent
<jeffsch> i hope it works :)
<jeffsch> if it does, we should find some spot on the wiki for it, so other translators can use it
<segfault> ok, i'll test it know
<segfault> shouldn't the makefile have a call for xml2po?
<jeffsch> hmmm.... that would be good. 
<jeffsch> for now though, can you do xml2po manually, and then use the makefile?
<jeffsch> i can add xml2po and then fix up any problems with the makefile
<segfault> yeah, just a minute
<jeffsch> we should add an aboutubuntu target also
<segfault> that's weird, i'm getting some segfaults while trying to convert some xmls
<segfault> Converting C/applications.xml...
<segfault> ./pt_BR.sh: line 3: 19098 Segmentation fault      xml2po -p pt_BR/pt_BR.po "$i" >pt_BR/$(basename $i)
<jeffsch> hmm...
<jeffsch> ok, i know what it is
<jeffsch> rob stoffers just changed the faqguide to all one big file about an hour ago
<jeffsch> you don't need to convert each one individually any more
<segfault> is it on branches/breezy?
<jeffsch> i think so. I don't have branches/breezy, only trunk
<segfault> lemme see
<segfault> Checked out revision 1801.
<segfault> nothing new
<segfault> well, your script worked for the C stuff
<segfault> i guess it is know a problem in our translations
<segfault> err, s/know/now
<jeffsch> open applications.xml and see if there is anything there
<segfault> humm, it worked
<segfault> :)
<jeffsch> ok good.
<segfault> with some hacks, here's what i did:
<segfault> for i in C/*xml
<segfault> do
<segfault>         echo "Converting $i..."
<segfault>         xml2po -p pt_BR/pt_BR.po "$i" > pt_BR/$(basename $i)
<segfault> done
<segfault> so, i parse every xml file..
<segfault> then i go up one level, and run your makefile
<segfault> it couldn't load some external entities, so i did some symlinks to bypass it:
<segfault> lrwxrwxrwx  1 segfault segfault    12 Sep 18 23:23 common -> ../../common
<segfault> lrwxrwxrwx  1 segfault segfault    17 Sep 18 23:24 menus -> ../../gnome/menus
<segfault> and ran the makefile again, and it generated the html translated files
<jeffsch> ok. what can we do to make this easier?
<jeffsch> i can change the target to faq instead of faqi386
<jeffsch> i can add a target 'au' for about ubuntu
<jeffsch> i can add a LANG variable, so you only have to modify the language in one place
<jeffsch> is there anything we can do about the symlinks?
<segfault> wait..
<segfault> just did a cp -r C pt_BR, and ran the make again
<segfault> and it built without errors
<segfault> and without the symlinks
<segfault> i'm trying to find where those entities come from
<segfault> global.ent
<jeffsch> hmm... you should run the makefile in gnome/ and not generic/
<segfault> but the faquide is inside generic
<jeffsch> i know. but the makefile contents are copied from the gnome/Makefile
<jeffsch> all the directories are relative from gnome/
<jeffsch> about ubuntu is in gnome too
<jeffsch> a big mess
<segfault> hehe
<jeffsch> we have a lot of fixing to do after breezy release
<jeffsch> live and learn :)
<jeffsch> ok i have to go
<segfault> me too, tomorrow we can make new tests
<segfault> cya, and thanks for the help
<jeffsch> np. cya.
<Burgundavia> robitaille, which docs?
<robitaille> do we talk about the screensaver anywhere?
<Burgundavia> don't think so
<robitaille> so we're fine  I guess
<Burgundavia> robitaille, the faqguide talks little about what is on the system. It mostly talks about what you need to add
<Burgundavia> salut jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> hi Burgundavia 
<jsgotangco> how's quickguide?
<Madpilot> hi everyone
<jsgotangco> i finally got my dsl back
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, there are some edits on my laptop that I need to get off, didn't have a chance to get them off last night
<jsgotangco> pinay, hi
<pinay> jsgotangco: hi, how is up diliman?
<jsgotangco> up pa rin hehehe...seriously though, its been a while since ive been there, but the last time i went there, i did a talk
<pinay> jsgotangco: the up campus looked so different when i went home last december, even my school (miriam/maryknoll) looked so different. nakakalito ang katipunan.
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia, what does Rosetta mean that it can't handle plurals?
<jsgotangco> pinay, its so different now, with the MRT and traffic re-routing
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, I think that is a gettext limitation. I really don't understand it
<jsgotangco> i guess manual pot work would be the workaround instead of Rosetta
<pinay> jsgotangco: yes, i tried driving there and what a mistake that was
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, I don't think that it is a rosetta thing. it is an underlying gettext thing
<pinay> jsgotangco: my husband asked me if i'd be interested in translating documentation for ubuntu, as i am not technical, i told him i'll try
<jsgotangco> pinay, are you aware of Rosetta? It's a web interface that allows you to translate
<tritium> jsgotangco, I haven't shown her anything yet...
<pinay> jsgotangco: no i'm not
<jsgotangco> tritium, about-ubuntu is open for translation, its a short doc. the faq guide has a plurals issue with tagalog
<jsgotangco> https://launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-doc/+translations
<tritium> jsgotangco, okay.  We'll take a look at it.
<tritium> Thanks
<jsgotangco> a "steve torrefranca" has also contributed
<Burgundavia> rob^, shouldn't you have killing the various files that bits of the faqguide?
<jsgotangco> tritium, there's also the downloadable pot file but i wouldn't recommend her doing that
<tritium> jsgotangco, okay.  If she can do the translating, I can work the the pot file
<pinay> jsgotangco: I'll do my best
<tritium> jsgotangco, is registration on launchpad enough to get her started?
<jsgotangco> pinay, good luck! its fun
<jsgotangco> yeah
<tritium> awesome, thanks
<pinay> jsgotangco: salamat po
<jsgotangco> there were a lot of translations of apps pulled from debian already
<jsgotangco> the d-i didn't make it though but is currently in sid
<jsgotangco> im going to grab a sandwhich for lunch, bbl
<tritium> see you
<rob^> Burgundavia, ?
<Burgundavia> rob^, you emptied the files of contents but didn't delete the files themselves
<rob^> Burgundavia, no I didn't did I
<rob^> does it matter?
<Burgundavia> not really, just making sure that is what you intended
<rob^> yeah
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia, i have the MS OEM CD here with me FYI
<rob^> Whoever did the xinclude tags missed a whole chapter
<jsgotangco> why is work being done in trunk?
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia, the WindowsXP OEM Preinstallation kit contains a ton of documents and scripts, but it has a basic document called Step-by-Step Guide mabye this is the one you are looking for?
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, ya, that is likely what i looking to replicate
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, but the whole kit would be nice to parse
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, how did you get yours?
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia, that's hard, I was browsing at the cd now and it looks terribly complicated really
<jsgotangco> the step by step alone is 48 pages
<Burgundavia> ouch
<Burgundavia> we can do better than that
<jsgotangco> well the oem stuff has branding covered as well
<jsgotangco> like adding logos and stuff
<Burgundavia> yes, that is other side I was looking at
<jsgotangco> now if we had a working OEM cd, when a user clicks about ubuntu, it would probably show diagnostics and the logo of the oem
<Burgundavia> hmm
<jsgotangco> wonder where gnome can do something like that
<Burgundavia> the diags?
<jsgotangco> i think the same docs/apps can be pulled from microsoft.com/oem
* Burgundavia wants as little OEM branding as possible
<jsgotangco> but that defeats the purpose of the oem
<jsgotangco> heh
<Burgundavia> nto really
<Burgundavia> a lot fo the windows oem branded stuff is extra programs
<Burgundavia> oems are in the business of services and hardware, not software develoment
<Burgundavia> remember, even the largest OEM is a minnow to MS. We can and are different
<jsgotangco> our best conservative target is just to make a guide for now
<Burgundavia> yes
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia, what's your jabber id?
<Burgundavia> Burgundavia@jabber.org
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia, looks like our OEM stuff is non-existent in the help department i couldn't even find it on the cd
<Burgundavia> we have no OEM help
<jsgotangco> nice
<Burgundavia> hence why I started thinking about it
<Madpilot> in the context of help, what is OEM help, vs any other sort
<Madpilot> ?
<jsgotangco> a guide to have ubuntu pre-installed
<jsgotangco> its a system builder thing
<Madpilot> ah, OK. got it. 
<Madpilot> so the target would be the computer companies themselves, and/or the resellers?
<Burgundavia> anybody that needs to put Ubuntu on a machine and sell it
<jsgotangco> the the computer manufacturters is a different level
* Burgundavia truly must crash, has to work at 7:45am tomorrow
<jsgotangco> night
<dholbach> hi
<jsgotangco> hi dholbach fancy seeing you here =)
<dholbach> hey jerome :)
<dholbach> i asked this already some days ago - do you cover gnome-bittorrent on any screenshots or somewhere in the documentation?
<dholbach> somebody wnats me to change the menu entry to say something else
<jsgotangco> somebody is influential? =)
<dholbach> somebody is "Evandro Fernandes Giovanini <evandrofg@ig.com.br>" :)
<jsgotangco> im not sure if its in the faqguide...
<dholbach> or in a menu editor screenshot or something
<dholbach> if it isn't, i'll ask mdz/kamion for approval
<dholbach> and then upload it :)
<jsgotangco> change the name to what?
<dholbach> from GNOME BitTorrent to BitTorrent
<jsgotangco> not sure how big an impact that is but documentation wise, it shouldn't be that much on an effort
<jsgotangco> unless there are already finished docs that are translated
<jsgotangco> its only 1 string
<dholbach> yeah, that's what i thought
<dholbach> the change would make sense for me
<pedri2> hello jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> hi irvin 
<irvin> how was linuxworld?
<jsgotangco> awesome
<jsgotangco> i had a pic with 3 MS booth girls
<dholbach> haha :)
<irvin> i've been so busy
<jsgotangco> dholbach, yeah we had an MS booth
<jsgotangco> it was BIGGER han Red Hat's booth
<irvin> i had to migrate two internet shops to kubuntu
<jsgotangco> ahh
<jsgotangco> irvin, we're planning a hackfest sometime in november, its possible RMS will come
<irvin> really? nice if i could join
<jsgotangco> sure its supposed to be open not like linuxworld
<irvin> what did you talk about in linuxworld?
<jsgotangco> since stallman is working with the undp and iosn lately, he's more than willing to go over here
<irvin> it would be a wonderful opportunity for him to meet with politicians to push through open source
<irvin> its about time
<irvin> i'm doing my share here in the province
<jsgotangco> sure marvin (pascual) got to have dinner with him in bangkok
<jsgotangco> PLUG is already recognized by the IOSN and UNDP
<irvin> that is good news. what we need are stronger lobbyists in congress
<jsgotangco> irvin, let's move to #ubuntu-ph (this is a doc channel btw)
<irvin> i'll be writing to my congressman soon
<irvin> i see
<irvin> sorry didn't know
<jsgotangco> no worries
<sivang> morning all
<mgalvin> hi all, long time no see
#ubuntu-doc 2005-09-25
<Madpilot> hi all
<mpt> hi Madpilot
<Madpilot> hi mpt
<rob^> grr
<rob^> what is the address for our branch?
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, we are we meeting at the same time?
<Madpilot> OK... why do we currently have both this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewUserGuide
<Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewUbuntuUsers <-- and this?
<Burgundavia> that was from the Nun effort
<ajmitch> because the new users group is disorganised?
<Burgundavia> you can redirect them to UserDocumentation
<Madpilot> so we can blame the Pope for this?
<Burgundavia> because the group has been dead for a while now
* ajmitch would hate to think how many MOTU pages there are
<ajmitch> at least the MOTU group isn't dead! :)
<Burgundavia> ajmitch, CategoryMOTU will give you a lot of them
<Madpilot> neither of these are old pages - both started this month, from what I can tell.
<ajmitch> possibly not all of them, since we've made new pages
<Burgundavia> Madpilot, nope, that is the last edit
<Burgundavia> previous edit before that was in July
<Burgundavia> same with the other one
<Madpilot> I'll just have a quick look thru them both, steal any good ideas for UserDocs, and then nuke them to redirect to UD, then...
<Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewToUbuntu  <-- and another one
<Madpilot> I'm going to get a reputation as "The Great Redirector" around here..
<Madpilot> ;)
<Burgundavia> now if only the search ignored redirects
<Madpilot> ah well
<Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowToGetHelp <-- this I quite like, however. I'm going to clean it up and link to it from UserDocs
<Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WikiImprovements <-- please edit with your ideas
<Madpilot> will do. am also planning another email to the doc-list, possibly tonight.
<Madpilot> what do ppl think of restructing bits of the wiki as a sequential walkthrough, similar to linuxcommand.org's setup?
<Burgundavia> the problem with that is if people want to jump to the specific info
<Madpilot> have a look at how linuxcommand does it - there's both a regular ToC and a "Next Page" link
<Burgundavia> hmm
<Madpilot> " This is an unofficial guide for users of Ubuntu: shows you how to do many things. It is better at merely showing than actually explaining, however, and parts are not up to date." <-- fair?
<Burgundavia> hmm
<Burgundavia> bon soir, robitaille 
<robitaille> hellow Burgundavia.   Too many things to do...not enough hours in a day :)
<Madpilot> hi robitaille
<robitaille> Hi Madpilot 
<Burgundavia> robitaille, indeed
<robitaille> and of course my most productive time is always close or past my bed time...
<Madpilot> naturally
<Madpilot> I'm usually far, far more useful at 11pm than I am at 11am...
<Madpilot> currently, I'm slaughtering redundant wiki pages
<robitaille> I'm currently testing the laptop once, and trying to fill up more items on my laptop wiki page
<robitaille> now I only need to find a docking station for it...
<Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuHowComeDraft  <-- trying to finish this off a bit more so we can junk the existing UbuntuHowCome, which is a mess...
<Madpilot> oops.. Mark Shuttleworth's own website doesn't validate ;)  http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.markshuttleworth.com%2F  - and part of it doesn't work in Opera, but that's a know Opera Javascript bug... :(
<sladen> hello all, how do I revert https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeamTemplate;  some kind luser has gone and filled it with their own results.   plonker
<sladen> are there *any* wiki experts here?
<mpt> how expert?
<Kinnison> what wiki?
<sladen> mpt Kinnison: wiki.ubuntu.com
<sladen> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeamTemplate has been toasted by some laptop tester
<mpt> sladen: fixed
<mpt> If you want to revert a page, go to the history, find the revision you want to revert to, click "Raw" next to that revision, and copy and paste
<sladen> mpt: ta.  thanks.  That's why I did find it.  "History" is called "Get info".  *boggles*
<mpt> sladen: yeah, if you could complain upstream that would be great :-)
#ubuntu-doc 2006-09-18
<JoseStefan> ok, done
<FireRabbit> well, edgy is currently for people who want to help find bugs... update-manager is no exception...
<crimsun> LaserJock: 10-4
<LaserJock> crimsun: ubuntu-docs is a product for doc team bugs
<crimsun> the issue at hand was the editing of /community
<crimsun> not being current on doc policy, I didn't know that anyone could add/edit that hierarchy
<JoseStefan> me neither, that's why i came here first ;)
<FireRabbit> hense the name 'community' :)
<crimsun> there's way too much going on. Two of my seniors are defending theses tomorrow morning; I have a sponsor meeting; tomorrow's REVU day ... it just never ends.
<LaserJock> mhm
<crimsun> what's the status of the "contributing" doc that andreas is working on?
<JoseStefan> thanks for everything...
<LaserJock> crimsun: I think it's in the svn repo
<LaserJock> crimsun: but I'm not sure if it's in the help system yet or not
<JoseStefan> Is there any wiki or other doc, that describes EOL of ubuntu releases?
<LaserJock> hmm, I'm not sure
<JoseStefan> i don't know if i'm using the wrong search terms, but i can't seem to find any
<LaserJock> what specifically are you looking for?
<JoseStefan> for example: what is official EOL of hoary?
<LaserJock> 18 months from release I believe for normal releases
<JoseStefan> well, i know about the 18 months, but is there such thing as a known deadline? since it's common for ubuntu dates to wrap to Thursdays
<JoseStefan> by that i mean exact known date
<LaserJock> oh, no
<LaserJock> I think it's determined by the releases
<LaserJock> so I think warty was EOL when Dapper was released
<JoseStefan> So hoary would be expected to EOL on the same day Edgy is released?
<LaserJock> I would think so
<JoseStefan> I have updated the Releases wiki to include brief description of LTS and EOL
<DBO> the ubuntu wiki on compiz is horribly out of date (though still technically working), I would like to overhaul the whole thing if thats ok with you people
<Madpilot> DBO, go nuts. It can't possibly break more machines than XGl/compiz already do ;)
<mpt> Sure, DBO, go ahead
<FireRabbit> DBO: hey speaking of that, I just overhauled the AIGLX page.
<FireRabbit> id be happy to help with compiz too, i was just looking at how bad that is
<DBO> FireRabbit, I am holding out just a little bit for the release of beryl
<FireRabbit> beryl?
<DBO> which is going to screw aiglx and compiz sections up anyhow
<DBO> oh you dont know, compiz is forking
<FireRabbit> oh great, all the guides are going to break again!
<DBO> exactly
<FireRabbit> beryl = quinnstorm's branch, with csm, etc. ?
<DBO> yes
<DBO> I talk with the devs on a daily basis
<FireRabbit> and "compiz" will continue to use gconf?
<DBO> so we will make sure everything is working right
<DBO> compiz-vanilla will become compiz
<DBO> and will of course use gconf
<FireRabbit> okay
<DBO> compiz is becoming beryl, and will use csm
<DBO> amoung its many other enhancements
<FireRabbit> gotcha
<DBO> I'll be writing a switch to beryl guide as soon as package names and release dates are finalized
<FireRabbit> okay
<DBO> and be overhauling the ubuntu wiki the same day
<FireRabbit> great, great
<DBO> if you want to help with the aiglx section that would be fantastic
<DBO> are you an aiglx user?
<FireRabbit> sure, although i didnt mention any compiz-related stuff on the AIGLX wiki, just 'go here for the next step'
<DBO> thats fine
<DBO> I am going to write a full guide for the wiki once beryl is released
<DBO> most ubuntu users think of compiz-quinn when they think compiz
<DBO> and thats what I am going to suggest users use
<FireRabbit> nod
<DBO> but we are going to need guides for both compiz and compiz vanilla since there will now actually be two composite managers available
<DBO> which is going to be a total nightmare
<FireRabbit> i am using xgl on here (nvidia card), a friend of mine installed AIGLX so he helped me update the wiki.
<FireRabbit> heh
<FireRabbit> well as long as they dont both have "compiz" in the name, i think we can sort the docs out.
<FireRabbit> so i am happy to hear about the name change.
<DBO> well they both still going in composite manager
<DBO> just different sub-pages
<DBO> since the xgl/aiglx setup portion is the same for both of them
<FireRabbit> right
<FireRabbit> Beryl and Compiz. 
<DBO> and the repos arent changing (minus possible domain changes)
<DBO> also ubuntu needs to settle on a standardized way to start Xgl
<FireRabbit> no kidding
<DBO> I am thinking we should drop the session method
<FireRabbit> the compiz installation page is horrible
<FireRabbit> i agree
<DBO> good
<FireRabbit> doesnt make sense for GDM to use a different X server than your session
<DBO> so the guides will only modify either kdmrc or gdm.conf-custom
<DBO> exactly
<FireRabbit> that is something that will need to be updated on the AIGLX page, i dont know anything about KDM.
<DBO> oh its easy
<FireRabbit> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CompositeManager/AIGLX
<DBO> oh wow you did overhaul it
<DBO> can you add a table of contents to that and proper headers?
<DBO> (look at another page for hints)
<FireRabbit> yeah alright
<DBO> then I will add the kdmrc method
<FireRabbit> cool.
<FireRabbit> do you know if anyone has spoen with the gdm/kdm/xorg package maintainers to try to come up with some way for packages to set the X server, so users dont need to do it by hand?
<DBO> i dont think thats a good idea
<DBO> its alpha software
<DBO> it shouldnt be touching core config files
<FireRabbit> true
<DBO> perhaps later on when its stable and all the memory leaks have been plugged
<FireRabbit> nod, sounds good
<FireRabbit> i added a TOC to that page.
<DBO> ok I will add the aiglx method
<DBO> erm
<FireRabbit> s/aiglx/kdm/ ?
<DBO> kdm
<DBO> yes
<FireRabbit> ok, thanks.
<DBO> eeek
<DBO> I wouldnt suggest aiglx to voodoo users... its just not pretty
<FireRabbit> haha
<DBO> Im going to remove that till I get better confirmation from users that its working better
<FireRabbit> i copied that from the official page
<FireRabbit> go head.
<FireRabbit> maybe make "extremely slow" italic in the line above it? :)
<DBO> naw...
<DBO> i just dont think its a good idea right now
<FireRabbit> i mean, under ATI
<DBO> that information was not intended to be used in that manner
<DBO> we will get so many broken xorgs it will be redonkulous
<FireRabbit> heh
<DBO> blutkind is broke
<DBO> removing
<FireRabbit> oh ok.
<FireRabbit> its still on xgl.compiz.info
<DBO> yes I know
<DBO> sudo ln -s /usr/lib/xorg/modules/input/ /usr/lib/xorg-air/apt-cmodules/   =P
<DBO> typo =P
<FireRabbit> whoops
<FireRabbit> good eye
<DBO> gdm.conf-custom already exists, you dont need to create it =)
<FireRabbit> oh, okay.
<FireRabbit> its been a while. :)
<DBO> =)
<DBO> just letting you know
<FireRabbit> i appreciate it
<FireRabbit> might as well make sure all this stuff is accurate 
<DBO> gonna add a section for filed to backup
<FireRabbit> for what exactly?
<DBO> erm
<DBO> files that need to be backed up
<DBO> as a safety measure
<FireRabbit> ah okay
<DBO> ok updated
<DBO> check it out
<DBO> Edgy users with the right hardware only need to add the repos and install compiz
<DBO> aiglx is ready to go for them
<FireRabbit> so its part of the xserver-xorg-* packages?
<DBO> aiglx?
<DBO> no
<DBO> its PART of xserver-xorg
<DBO> it is included in Xorg 7.1 to be more exact
<FireRabbit> right, okay.. that's what i was getting at. gotcha. cool.
<DBO> and in edgy its on by default
<FireRabbit> -nods-
<FireRabbit> it just dawned on me that my laptop has a GMA 950, so ill have to install edgy on there
<FireRabbit> and give it a try
<DBO> also adding sudo depmod -a after sudo lrm-manager
<FireRabbit> i think lrm-manager runs depmod -a
<FireRabbit> maybe not though, *shrug*
<DBO> something weird goes on
<FireRabbit> it certainly cant hurt
<DBO> some users have reported the new modules dont work until they depmod -a
<FireRabbit> gotcha
<FireRabbit> let me know when you're doing with the edits and ill change the blurb about edgy
<DBO> done
<FireRabbit> you had a mistake, 4a and 4b both said "GDM", fixing :)
<FireRabbit> will edgy users still need to modify their Xorg.conf?
<FireRabbit> to enable composite, etc?
<DBO> they shouldnt have to
<DBO> but that might change
<DBO> so I wouldnt get too over-zealous
<FireRabbit> okay, well for now ill assume that they dont.
<FireRabbit> THIS GUIDE IS FOR THE DAPPER RELEASE ONLY! EDGY USERS DO NOT NEED TO FOLLOW ANY OF THIS, AND CAN SKIP RIGHT TO CompositeManager/InstallingCompiz
<FireRabbit> so dont put that?
<DBO> well no they cant
<DBO> InstallingCompiz doesnt cover edgy users anyhow
<FireRabbit> right
<FireRabbit> but it will soon..
<Burgundavia> are you two cleaning up those pages?
<Burgundavia> that would be awesome
<DBO> Burgundavia, actually after the fork I am going to re-write them
<FireRabbit> well, i am happy to, once all those changes you mentioned happen.
<DBO> they work, but they are messy
<FireRabbit> ill just put it back to saying that info for edgy people is coming soon, and ill change that once we get the compiz pages fixed.
<DBO> there is no point in fixing the pages until I can get more solid info about beryl out of the devs
<DBO> but like I said I talk to them daily so thats not a big deal, but fixing their current versions will be a pointless waste of effort since the whole thing will be broken in a couple weeks anyhow
<FireRabbit> okay, so im just going to stop messing with the AIGLX page for now, and go over it again once beryl surfaces.
<DBO> We are also going to need a BerylSwitch page
<FireRabbit> -nod-
<DBO> since more or less users with the compiz package are going to be left in the "no updates" limbo
<DBO> and eventually they will get reverted to vanilla
<DBO> which they wont want
<DBO> they want beryl
<FireRabbit> at least thats better than the "what the hell is going on" limbo that has happened a few times in the past, heheh
<FireRabbit> communication from the devs. to the community has been less than perfect
<DBO> hahaha
<DBO> the beryl folks are very accessable
<DBO> they dont hide from us at all =)
<FireRabbit> oh you renamed all the packages? you dumped gconf? thanks for announcing it!
<DBO> oh that bit
<DBO> it WAS announced...
<DBO> and I did put an announcement in the #ubuntu-xgl topic when it happened
<DBO> but the overall effect has actually been good
<DBO> people understand csm better
<FireRabbit> yeah
<DBO> we have a standard method for starting beryl
<FireRabbit> csm is cool
<DBO> oh that reminds me
<DBO> csm is becoming beryl settings managerr btw, but the configuring compiz page, I added a quick note that it no longer applies to compiz-quinn
<DBO> but it needs a SERIOUS overhaul
<DBO> like I mean scrap the whole thing as it all no longer applies
<DBO> we will need two pages
<FireRabbit> yep
<DBO> one for gconf, and one for csm
<FireRabbit> its bad
<FireRabbit> yeah
<FireRabbit> http://orion.extremeboredom.net/~eric/CompizGuide.txt FYI, this is the guide i wrote for my friends so they would stop bugging me, the AIGLX page is based off of this.
<FireRabbit> i tried to actually explain whateverything is, so once this overhaul happens, id like to make sure that all gets onto the wiki
<DBO> ehhhh you should be using glxgears to test, not ppracer =P
<FireRabbit> that's ridiculous!
<DBO> haha
<FireRabbit> tuxracer is the *perfect* test to see if 3d acceleration is working, *nods*
<DBO> also adding compiz to the gnome-session
<DBO> bad idea
<DBO> lets not do that huh? =)
<FireRabbit> uh, whats the alternative?
<DBO> just run it at startup
<DBO> its alpha software
<FireRabbit> by hand?
<DBO> and when it breaks, those people are hosed
<DBO> yes by hand
<DBO> its a safety measure
<FireRabbit> that's ridiculous, the compiz-start script should just be changed to fall back to metacity.
<FireRabbit> or kwin or whatever
<DBO> thats fine for xgl users
<DBO> but AIGLX users might experience all sorts of badness
<DBO> ranging from blank screens to crashing xservers
<DBO> and since there is no fallback server...
<DBO> well you get the idea
<FireRabbit> ok ok, so when we write the guide, we'll tell people to first test it by hand, then then OPTIONALLY make it auto-start, if it worked.
<DBO> ehhhh...
<DBO> updates break aiglx sometimes too
<DBO> (the devs use xgl mostly)
<FireRabbit> right
<FireRabbit> we're beating a dead horse, none of this matters until theres a new compiz page on the wiki, we can worry about it later.
<DBO> right, we can start drafting it now
<DBO> hey anyone on the doc team present?  Burgundavia?
<Burgundavia> DBO: about to crash
<DBO> quick question
<DBO> is using the wiki to draft up a new howto, but marking it as under construction ok?
<Burgundavia> yep
<DBO> it might be a week or more before its actually usefull, but when the switch happens we need it in place
<Burgundavia> create a draft page, then move it over to the existing page and place a redirect from the draft page
<DBO> uhhh...
<DBO> oh you mean make something like BeryleHowtoDraft
<DBO> then when its ready move it to BerylHowto and redirect the berylHowtoDraft?
<Burgundavia> yep
<DBO> ok thanks
<Burgundavia> but avoid the` word howto
<Burgundavia> in page names, that is
<DBO> yeah I know, its just going into the CompositeManager stuff
<DBO> I helped make those pages in the first place
<Madpilot> DBO, what is Beryl, aside from a girl's name? A more descriptive page name might be a good thing, too
<DBO> its also a gem Madpilot =P
<Madpilot> that too
<DBO> its a fork of compiz
<DBO> so it will go in with its howto right next to compiz in the composite manager wiki page
<DBO> most people are actually using the beryl mods right now
<DBO> thats what the standard walkthrough installs
<halfhaggis> Hello. I'm keen to proof-read the documentation, but I don't want to duplicate work. Is there a systematic way in which proof reading is being carried out, or should I just dive in randomly?
<LaserJock> there really isn't a very systematic way I'd guess
<LaserJock> I'd pick a doc that is ready for proof-reading and dive in
<LaserJock> do you have a checkout of the svn repo?
<halfhaggis> yes
<nixternal> i would recommend grabbing them from trunk though, as everything that is on the help.ubuntu.com website has been fixed im sure for the edgy docs ;)
<LaserJock> haha
<nixternal> nm then, you are one step ahead of me ;)
<halfhaggis> Systematic would be better, me thinks
<LaserJock> halfhaggis: sure, we just need a system ;-)
<trappist> halfhaggis: proofreading is about 90% of what I do on the team.  I've done all of the xubuntu directory and bits and pieces of others.  I was thinking I'd hit kubuntu next.
<LaserJock> yeah just don't do the packaging guide just yet ;-)
<halfhaggis> Yeah, okay. By next time, hopefully I'll be more involved in helping out, and we can get something more organised started
<LaserJock> what do you mean by organized?
<jjesse> like a group of eople that are assigned to proofreading certain docs?
<jjesse> is that waht u mean?
<halfhaggis> that's sort of what I mean. been tried before? didn't work?
<LaserJock> well, so far the authors proofread their stuff and then get somebody else to do it as well
<halfhaggis> I just think that avoiding duplication is a good thing(tm)
<LaserJock> trappist did a large amount of that for dapper
<jjesse> i don't think we have tried to have a schedule of proofreaders, because most proofreaders befcome authors :)
<LaserJock> right
<halfhaggis> Ok. Here's the scenario. I want to volunteer to do some proof-reading. I don't particularly want to proof read something that's already been proof-read
<halfhaggis> What should I look at?
<halfhaggis> Does every author make sure that another author checks his/her work?
<LaserJock> well, if our status pages were up-to-date I'd say you could go with that
<jjesse> start w/ the kubuntu docs 
<jjesse> i think that would be good
<LaserJock> but I'm not sure they are
<halfhaggis> i checked the status pages last week - so unless something has changed since then...
<LaserJock> where did you look?
<jjesse> is the stats page getting updated?
<LaserJock> uggg, doesn't look like it
<jjesse> is that an mdke thing?
<LaserJock> http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/status/pg-report.html looks like the dapper version
<LaserJock> I'm not sure
<LaserJock> perhaps since I believe it is run from doc.ubuntu.com
<halfhaggis> Ah, now that's just confusing. What's the point of this page then: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Projects
<LaserJock> to list projects and give info from people
<LaserJock> :-)
<LaserJock> but when it's not updated very often it's a bit of a bummer
<jjesse> and i don't know if that is up to date or current
<jjesse> o tjp
<halfhaggis> Hmm. Yes. because I've been checking out the wiki mostly. Guess I'll wander around doc.ubunut.com for a bit then
<jjesse> doh
<jjesse> i thought that should be building automatically?
<LaserJock> well, I don't see a cron job for it
<LaserJock> good grief, the status reports are from June 2nd
<LaserJock> lloydinho: ping?
<jjesse> hmmm
<LaserJock> anybody know if mdke is checking email?
<FireRabbit> is it me, or does help.ubuntu.com often stop working for a few minutes?
<jjesse> it might be slow sometimes?
<nixternal> sometimes...seems like all the time for me
<FireRabbit> it doesnt appear to just be slow, right now its not accepting my connection
<FireRabbit> at all
<nixternal> looks like it is down
<FireRabbit> yeah.
<nixternal> which isn't new at all for the doco servers around here
<nixternal> hrmm..it just popped up
<FireRabbit> is anyone from canonical around?
<nixternal> i just messaged the web guy 
<nixternal> see if he is around
<FireRabbit> thanks.
<FireRabbit> wiki.ubuntu.com isnt coming up either.
<nixternal> they came up for me, just took 53 seconds for h.u.c and 71 seconds for w.u.c
<nixternal> jjesse: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuDocs/Edgy
<nixternal> you have a status?  should we be working on that?
<lloydinho> LaserJock, pong.
<LaserJock> lloydinho: hi
<LaserJock> I haven't talked to you for a few while
<LaserJock> lloydinho: did you see that I got the doc freeze moved to the 21st?
<lloydinho> LaserJock, I did see that. 
<lloydinho> I've been away for the weekend though, and haven't been able to touch it at all.
<LaserJock> lloydinho: did you get any instructions from mdke before he left?
<LaserJock> I apparently wasn't paying attention enough or something
<lloydinho> Not really. Just "have a look at the Desktop guide and flesh out the Internet section" 
<lloydinho> So I went through it and removed placeholders and added a bit of new.
<LaserJock> ok
<lloydinho> Coordinated the frontpage with Don Scorgie and had the desktop team repackage it in Yelp
<lloydinho> But that was all that we talked about at the DocTeam meeting.
<LaserJock> ok, then I think we just need final draft and proofread
<LaserJock> and we'll be set for the 21st
<lloydinho> yeah. I think we're all final draft at the moment.
<lloydinho> So we need to proofread.
<lloydinho> But reading back, I can see that the review system hasn't been updated at all since Dapper?
<LaserJock> yeah, I thought the status pages were being built same as with the rest of doc.ubuntu.com
<LaserJock> but it appears not
<lloydinho> no, we might have to setup some cron job or some such.
<LaserJock> yeah, I looked at the cron jobs for doc.ubuntu.com and I didn't see anything related to docs :/
<lloydinho> But even so, all the chapters are still set to "complete" or "awaiting review" or some such from back in dapper.
<LaserJock> and I don't know how they are triggered
<lloydinho> Do we need to reset all of those manually as well?
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> I did it for the packaging guide
<lloydinho> Since we are so few, wouldn't it be easier to have a few people divide up the guides between them?
<LaserJock> well, unfortunately I have my hands full with the packaging guide
<LaserJock> I think the Kubuntu guys are taking care of their docs pretty well
* lloydinho looks around.
<LaserJock> I wonder if the server guide has had really any changes since dapper
<LaserJock> trappist is willing to help ;-)
<lloydinho> I don't think Bhuwan has really updated it that much.
<lloydinho> well, if trappist can get in touch with the Bhu^Wthe current maintainer, I'm sure they can work something out.
<LaserJock> ok, so what is the status of ubuntu docs? did mdke's cool front page get reverted?
<lloydinho> Don did pretty cool stuff with the front page.
<lloydinho> Apparently, it should be in Edgy now, though I haven't seen it.
<lloydinho> So that leaves the "About Ubuntu", the "Contribute to Ubuntu" and the "Desktop Guide"
<nixternal> LaserJock: in the Kubuntu release notes, there is the ShipIt portion...i think this should be removed because for Edgy, there will not be the ShipIt for everyone..ShipIt will continue to be Dapper until further notice
<nixternal> the only Edgy ShipIts will go to the LoCo's
<LaserJock> oh wow, I just looked at yelp for the first time in a while
<LaserJock> it's waaay cool
<nixternal> i wish kde had a parser like that...you can use khelpcenter, but you have to build the docs first
<nixternal> then do
<lloydinho> LaserJock, it works?
<nixternal> khelpcenter /kubuntu/blah/C/index.html
<LaserJock> lloydinho: well, I'm not sure what it is *supposed* to look like
<LaserJock> and I'm running Edubuntu
<LaserJock> but it shows up as "Ubuntu Help Center"
<LaserJock> with a nice front page
<lloydinho> That sounds right. Let me just dig up Don's mockups.
<LaserJock> and the sidpar has the other docs
<lloydinho> Yeah, something like this: http://donscorgie.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/UHC.png
<LaserJock> kinda, but mine is different
<lloydinho> Yeah, I asked him to change the order and the titles of some of them.
<lloydinho> But he didn't send me a new screenshot of that.
<LaserJock> yeah
<lloydinho> Well, if it works, it's cool. I see that Daniel also uploaded the docs as-was on Friday..
<LaserJock> lloydinho: http://chem.unr.edu/~mantha/ubuntu/Screenshot.png
<lloydinho> LaserJock, looks good. Though I'll have to change the desktop guide's omf file.
<lloydinho> (anyone know how to make clean line breaks in an .omf scrollkeeper entry?)
<lloydinho> The description isn't quite right.
<lloydinho> LaserJock, how do you like the article descriptions, otherwise?
<LaserJock> on the contributing one
<LaserJock> I'd take out the last "here"
<lloydinho> noted.
<lloydinho> I'll whip up a patch right away.
<LaserJock> do you change the individual .omf files
<LaserJock> or is there one specifically for the front page
<lloydinho> yeah. We don't really have a better system in place.
<LaserJock> I think the packaging guide description should be changed
<lloydinho> LaserJock, it's your show. Change like you want to... :-)
<lloydinho> (though, what, if I may ask, is the trouble?)
<LaserJock> "easily be installed on Ubuntu..." -> "easily be included in Ubuntu..."
<LaserJock> I don't really touch on personal packaging in the guide
<LaserJock> it's more about creating packages that you could include in the distro
<lloydinho> Of course. That is what I meant to say, as well. I guess I didn't think to thoroughly about it though.
<lloydinho> Do you want me to change that in my patch as well?
<LaserJock> yes, please ;-)
<lloydinho> It is done.. :-) I'll hopefully have a patch for you in a bit.
<nixternal> Kubuntu Release Notes are getting a big time work-over by me right now...anyone going to be available later to proof them?
<crimsun> yes
<nixternal> awesome, my favorite proofer at that ;)
<nixternal> let me sling this moron off of my dcc chat so I can get back to work on it
<LaserJock> Burgwork: "I've been begged not to make this Final Offer!"? you guys need to get some better email subject lines ;-)
<lloydinho> LaserJock, the patch is on the mailing list. Feel free.
<lloydinho> What's this Final Offer business about?
<LaserJock> lloydinho: Burgwork's company sends me stuff
<lloydinho> LaserJock, heh. They sound like a funny lot.
<Burgwork> LaserJock, have you gotten the cd thing?
<LaserJock> hmm, don't know
<Burgwork> that must be what it is
<LaserJock> it's just the DiscoverStation Trial kit
<LaserJock> I have no idea what it is
* Burgwork laughs about the production we have made of sending out DS cds
<Burgwork> yep, that is what it is
<LaserJock> but apparently Brian is going pull the plug soon so I need to hurry ;-)
<Burgwork> not reallyl
<Burgwork> it is a marketing ploy
<LaserJock> but kind of a cheesy one
<Burgwork> hey, I don't write this stuff
<LaserJock> thank goodness
<LaserJock> lloydinho: done
<lloydinho> LaserJock, awesome.
<lloydinho> Have we decided what else we need to do?
<LaserJock> proofread
<lloydinho> well. Yeah. I'll have a look at some of it tomorrow, I guess. Night all.
#ubuntu-doc 2006-09-19
<theCore> hello all
<theCore> I created a new team that I think will help the docteam, https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-helpteam
<theCore> my main goal is to identify things that peoples have an hard time with, so the other teams can "fix" those issues
<Burgwork> theCore, have you seen the new user network?
<Burgwork> they are exactly that
<theCore> Burgwork, no, what it is?
<Burgwork> #ubuntu-nun  or ubuntu-nun on LP
<theCore> Burgwork, ok I found it
<LaserJock> hmm, would those be the same though
<LaserJock> nun is for new user support
<LaserJock> wereas I would think ubuntu-helpteam would be more "identify the problems"
<LaserJock> or did I read that wrong
<theCore> LaserJock, you're right
<Burgwork> they are close enough that it shoudl be folding into nun
<LaserJock> probably
<theCore> yeah, maybe
<Burgwork> "background-color:#37b" <-- what does this mean
<Burgwork> ?
<Burgwork> what is that in HEX?
<theCore> Burgwork, I believe it's equivalent to #37b37b
<FireRabbit> yeah
<FireRabbit> thats a horrible green
<Burgwork> http://userful.com/ <-- I want the blue colour of that bar
<FireRabbit> Burgwork: sudo apt-get install gcolor2
<FireRabbit> its got an eyedropper
<Burgwork> FireRabbit, stuck on my FC4 box at work
<Burgwork> yum install die-of-old-age
<FireRabbit> hahaha
<Burgwork> it isn't quiet 37bfff, either
<LaserJock> lol
<LaserJock> at least it's FC4
<LaserJock> FC1 is what made my boss switch to OS X :/
<Burgwork> it could be Gentoo
<FireRabbit> #3377BB ?
<Burgwork> you sir, are a genius
<FireRabbit> heh np
<FireRabbit> btw, check out the firefox dom inspector, you can use it to find colors faster than source hunting
<Burgwork> right, I use ephy
<FireRabbit> ah
<Burgwork> oh, and yum extender blows
<Burgwork> http://linux.rasmil.dk/gfx/yumex-045-02/packages.png
<Burgwork> probably the worst UI have I seen in ages
<FireRabbit> gross 
<FireRabbit> hail synaptic :)
<Burgwork> gnome app install rocks
<Burgwork> we just need Fedora to pick it up
<Burgwork> part of what I am going to be trying todo at the Boston Summit
<LaserJock> wow, yum extender is way better looking than when I last tried it
<Burgwork> can you try an IP for me? 64.180.214.139
<Burgwork> what do you get?
<LaserJock> like ping you?
<Burgwork> no, via http
<LaserJock> nada
<Burgwork> bugger
<LaserJock> timeout
<Burgwork> ok, try now
<Burgwork> LaserJock, ?
<LaserJock> same thing
<mpt> Burgwork, ping
<mpt> Burgwork, unping
<nixternal> kubuntu release notes are starting to kick arse
<nixternal> hrmm...what is the process of becoming an "author" around here?  i mean, with the release notes I have created a bunch of new stuff ;)
<Madpilot> nixternal, stick your name in the contributor's section of whatever doc you've worked on, then.
<Madpilot> do enough stuff, and you'll get "Maintainer" - lucky you. 
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> im leaving jjesse as the maintainer ;)
<Madpilot> I'm listed (along w/ mdke) as Maintainer of the Ubuntu Desktop Guide - a doc I've not even touched for this release cycle :|
<nixternal> ouch
<nixternal> we have 3 days left for freeze, get to touchin' 
<nixternal> the doc that is ;)
<nixternal> i just up'd the latest revision to the Kubuntu Release NOtes if anyone wants to look over them
<nixternal> i think thre are still a couple of crude paragraphs, but that will get worked out before the freeze
<crimsun> url would be nice for those of us who don't frequent doc
<nixternal> i bet it would ;)
<nixternal> i will give you a choice... xml docbook style, or i can build the html and upload it somewhere for your to look at if you would like
<crimsun> if it's in svn, I'll checkout later
<nixternal> ya
<nixternal> it is in svn
<Burgundavia> Madpilot: you there?
<Madpilot> yes
<Burgundavia> has your computer been on since about 4/5 today?
<Madpilot> no, I only got home just past 8
<Burgundavia> hmm
<Madpilot> why?
<Burgundavia> hmm, just remembered the logs
<Madpilot> ... ?
<Burgundavia> needed an ip
<Madpilot> from someone on irc?
<Burgundavia> from myself, at work
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, you're still not making much sense... given that you're cloaked in both your accounts, it's kind of hard to find your IP from Freenode...
<Burgundavia> no, I wanted to find the routers IP at work
<Burgundavia> trying to see if I could get in, but no go
<Madpilot> I thought you had some sort of SSH access already?
<Burgundavia> no, I am trying to get port 80 redirection to work and not having much luck
<Madpilot> Way to respond to a request that you merge a page you've just started with an existing wiki page: "I shall proceed until threatened with physical violence."
<Madpilot> from https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowToUseTheTerminal
<nixternal> oh its definitely way to early
<jsgotangco> no its not
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> you just woke up too early
<nixternal> hehe
<Jucato> :)
<nixternal> people requested i speak about them for membership
<jsgotangco> hey someone got lost here
<jsgotangco> ;)
<Jucato> heh :)
<nixternal> haha
* Jucato hides in a corner and stays silent :)
<jsgotangco> nixternal: so what's keeping you busy lately?
<nixternal> jsgotangco: i like that quote from Amador about software patents..he rocks
<jsgotangco> heh
<nixternal> school work, doc work, packaging, ubuntu chicago, lug work
<jsgotangco> he's a cool guy, BSD hacker by day, guitar player at night
<nixternal> nice
<jsgotangco> he works at this IPV6 company
<jsgotangco> they only do BSD nothing more
<nixternal> no thank you...i tried that once
<nixternal> i couldn't take an all BSD atmosphere
<jsgotangco> IPv6 is north america is a dead issue, but for us countries deprived of IP addresses, we're jumping on it
<jsgotangco> as well as high requirement countries like korea, japan and china
<jsgotangco> well its a good OS for sure but not for my laptop
<nixternal> ya, i can't wait for ipv6 to bite us in the ass, but if it doesn't make us money we don't want it...us fat lazy ass americans only want it if it will make us money..which im sure you know this already since you have lived here ;)
<jsgotangco> heh
<nixternal> i worked for a major ISP recently, and they didn't have 1 IPv6 device
<jsgotangco> yuck
<jsgotangco> that's not thinking forward for sure
<nixternal> none of their engineers could even tell you how it works
<jsgotangco> heh maybe they will after 10 years
<jsgotangco> when it becomes the next Y2K phenom hah
<nixternal> ya right
<nixternal> you know what..i made a lot of my cash from Y2K..so I won't complain if IPv6 becomes the next Y2K issue here ;)
<jsgotangco> haha
<nixternal> i worked for a company that was greedy..they brainwashed everyone int he company with that y2k garbage
<wmat> nixternal: I say we brainwash companies with a new Y2K-like scare and make gobs of money again ;)
<nixternal> im ready for that
<nixternal> im broke seeing as I decided to do this school thing all over again, and full-time at that
<nixternal> double majors stink
<wmat> nixternal: really? at what age? I've considered going back occasionally but can't seem to justify it financially.
<nixternal> 32
<nixternal> funny thing is...im one of the youngest in these classes
<wmat> really, what are you taking?
<wmat> and is it an adult ed thing or something?
<nixternal> nope..full out college... finishing my MBA, and I am taking a CompSci course with an emphasis in C (++ and #) for Unix...trying to knock the rust off of my not-so-elite programming skills
<nixternal> 15 credit hours this semester
<wmat> wow, i'm surprised the age of the students in >30 
<wmat> i'm 36 with kids and a mortgage, so it'd be difficult for me to do
<wmat> perhaps if i win the lottery ;)
<nixternal> ya, well my plans were this..i sold my house in January, why?  i bought one in cabo san lucas mexico...oh, the owners received the down payment, burnt the house down, and double collected with insurance
<nixternal> so i had quit my job and everything...so i said the hell with it..i have a little bit of money saved up, plus I have the GI Bill and stuff helping me out
<nixternal> but child support is killing me
<wmat> ouch
<wmat> did you get your downpayments back?
<nixternal> hiya mgalvin
<mgalvin> hey nixternal 
<jsgotangco> hey
<Alan__> can i request documentation here?
<nixternal> what are you looking for?
<Alan__> an egroupware install & config guide or another recommended groupware system
<Alan__> with the guide assuming mail is also processed by the same server
<Alan__> also, whilst im here, is there an index for the wiki?
<nixternal> ya there is..let me see if i remember how to get to it
<nixternal> for the groupware stuff, i reallyd on't know
<nixternal> i know kolab has a decent one through their site
<nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TitleIndex
<Alan__> thanks for the index link
<Alan__> it's a tough one on what to try with the groupware... do you know which one is the most feature complete?
<nixternal> i have used kolab in the past, i know the suse server is good as well..but overall i could't tell you which was best
<Alan__> ok, i know egroupware has a lot of feature, but i think it relies on php4...is that bad?
<nixternal> not at all
<nixternal> it iwll run with php5 as well
<nixternal> citadel is also supposed to be pretty good from what i have heard
<nixternal> your top 4 would probably be Kolab, SuSE OpenExchange, eGroupware, and OpenGroupware.org, not in any order 
<Alan__> oh, great. i'll have a look. thank you.
<nixternal> no problem
<Muhmann> hallo
#ubuntu-doc 2006-09-20
<nixternal> Riddell: ping?
<nixternal> Riddell: unping, I will email you, concerning Kubuntu Release Notes - they are ready for you to give a look over and see if anything should be changed/added. Spelling should be OK, grammar might need a little polishing yet
<nixternal> ok, im in doc hell right now..i need to look at changing the "header images" for Kubuntu documentation...i can see that the current logos are grabbed locally from /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/common/*png
<nixternal> so they aren't all stored in SVN.no problem..but we need to look at changing the KDE logos and header to Kubuntu logos and header
<nixternal> trappist and/or robotgeek you around?
<trappist> hi
<nixternal> cool..hey... trunk/kubuntu/images/C   <- what are these used for?
<nixternal> im working with the art team right now (kwwii) on creating new header and footer images for Kubuntu docs (about, release, and desktop guide)
<trappist> I think they're screenshots, but I don't know
<nixternal> they are screenies..but what are they used for?
<nixternal> they are old at that
<nixternal> like breezy old ;)
<trappist> maybe it's just never been cleaned up
<nixternal> ya, i dont' htink it has
<trappist> I've never paid much attention to em.  I mostly proofread and fill in missing docs.
<nixternal> hehe..i hear you there
<nixternal> ya, JR had a spec to replace the images for Kubuntu docs that I found last night scouring the wiki
<nixternal> i should have the .xsl files fixed and what not later on today...so the about, release, and kdg have kubuntu logos instead of kde
<nixternal> what is the future status of adeptguide, quickguide, and quicktour?  are those old docs that haven't been cleaned, or is there a future for them i wonder
<nixternal> i just noticed that on http://doc.ubuntu.com that the links on the right go right to trunk builds...is the building done automagically for that page, or does somebody build them manually?
<trappist> this sentence from the kubuntu release notes seems wrong to me.  can anyone veryfy?:
<trappist> The low-end server kernel is generic and will work on the same equipment that the desktop kernel runs on, while the high-end server kernel is geared toward systems with 8 or more CPUs.
<nixternal> w/o a doubt trappist, that needs to get fixed..it is on my todo list to get finished today
<trappist> nixternal: oh, I'll get out of that file then!
<trappist> lemme commit what I've changed so far
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> ya..there is still some work left in the release notes...if you want go ahead
<nixternal> i can strike that off my to do list ;)
<trappist> well there's some other stuff that looks wrong, that I don't know what's correct
<trappist> why don't you correct incorrect info, then I'll finish proofreading
<nixternal> i know the server stuff needed some work yet..what else looks wrong to you?
<nixternal> proofreading now is good...i called for it yesterday...as i could hopefully get some words to add
<trappist> something in the upstart section about services may be received from any other process on the system
<trappist> I don't know what that means - I figured services was maybe supposed to say signals
<nixternal> me either..i grabbed that from upstart.ubuntu.com for section filler
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> there are a couple of topics that need to be reworded for understanding..especially for a new users
<nixternal> user*
<trappist> ah, it's "events", not services or signals :)
<nixternal> cool...ya, just go ahead and edit it..im not probably going to work on it until after class tonight
<trappist> yeah, just did :)
<trappist> if there's real work to be done on that file, though, it's probably best if I wait to proofread it after it's done
<nixternal> well...there isn't a lot of work...so proofreading right now on the major sections like the desktop and applications would be good...system settings is about complete as well
<nixternal> the under the hood section and possibly the support section need some help
<nixternal> trappist: thanks for those fixes in the release notes..very much appreciated!
<trappist> my pleasure :)
<nixternal> Laser_away: nm
<nixternal> just noticed you went away
#ubuntu-doc 2006-09-21
<LasaerJock> not too far away
<nixternal> hey...kubuntu docs..we are going to be replacing the current kde logos and what not to kubuntu ones...if they don't get done by tomorrow, it should be fine correct?
<nixternal> tomorrow is string freeze..but if i make a change to .xsl files, will that be alright?
<LasaerJock> I don't think that should be a problem
<LasaerJock> the string feeze is mostly for translation
<nixternal> ok
<nixternal> man...we have 1 day..i don't feel that a lot of docs are ready
<nixternal> kdg and release notes for kubuntu are good to go...the about section needs some love maybe
<nixternal> xubuntu guys been working hard...and the only ubuntu stuff was structure to the dg, and the switching guide, which doesn't matter, as it isn't going to ship with edgy
<LasaerJock> well, I'll finish up the packaging guide tonight
<nixternal> that im not to worried about ;)
<nixternal> ubuntu stuff is scary
<theCore> LasaerJock, you working on it?
<theCore> LasaerJock, can I help?
<LasaerJock> theCore: perhaps, I'm not sure
<LasaerJock> theCore: you could look over the first few chapters
<theCore> btw, any reasons why your nickname is mangled?
<theCore> it been awhile since a worked on the documention
<theCore> documentation*
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> i just noticed that
<nixternal> and to think, all that money on college, and he can't spell his own damn nick ;)
<theCore> LasaerJock, I think I could do a section about how to package Python modules
<LaserJock> whatever :p
<LaserJock> theCore: if you can finish it today :-0
<theCore> really?
<theCore> ah, I'm always at the last minute...
<LaserJock> me too
<nixternal> robotgeek: how does the KDG look? is it ready for tomorrow's string freeze?
<Burgwork> oh geez, the desktop guide for ubuntu is messed
<nixternal> damn...im trying to finish up release notes now Burgwork, if needbe i can help out with that after class tonight
<nixternal> omg jjesse !!#@@#@
<nixternal> dude, i was just so thinking about you with the string freeze tomorrow
<jjesse> the client i'm at doesn't allow irc
<jjesse> :(
<nixternal> how does the kubuntu about doc look?
<jjesse> i'll be there till novemember :(
<Burgwork> thanks
<Burgwork> I need to bang away the book tonight
<nixternal> im getting ready to finish up the release notes here in a few
<jjesse> looks good i think i'll take a look at it
<jjesse> Burgwork: me too aniversary today so i'm not at computer much, just checking in
<nixternal> release notes have been proofed once..let me add this quick fix, and submit for more proofing
<nixternal> ok..just comitted the release notes edits i did..so if someone wants to proof them
<jjesse> ok heading back out for a bit, i'll proof after wife goes to bed
<nixternal> haha ok
<nixternal> i have someone proofing it now as well
<nixternal> there are some guys who want to help out kubuntu, so i am abusing them
<nixternal> i mean using them
<nixternal> brb
<Burgwork> and I am still at work at 6pm, actually working
<Burgwork> we need to have another meeting
<Burgwork> I will see if I can get official timeoff to come to it
<Burgwork> well, I am headed home now
<nixternal> jeesh..don't lock the session with a livecd ;)
<nixternal> jjesse: http://r1.fodey.com/1a2fab3486eb1405789a0d1973fdb558e.1.gif
<LaserJock> alright, I think I'm done with the packaging guide
<nixternal> woohoo
<nixternal> im gonna eat something, and then get to some doc stuff ;)
<LaserJock> only a 32k diff though
<LaserJock> it seemed bigger :/
<robotgeek> nixternal: seems fine, i think
<nixternal> hmm...how smart would it be to change all 'irc.freenode.net' to 'irc.ubuntu.com'?  
<nixternal> or maybe create &ubuntu-irc-network;, &ubuntu-irc-server; and what not?  just in case something happens after the freeze, and say we move everything to OFTC
<Burgundavia> nixternal: does irc.ubuntu.com work?
<nixternal> ya
<nixternal> it is the Kubuntu default now
<Burgundavia> then do it
<nixternal> create entities would be the best i think
<nixterna1> this is irc.ubuntu.com ;)
<nixternal> alrighty..here i go on my massive search-n-replace mission
<nixternal> Burgundavia: do you know if 'ubuntu/browser-startpage/*.html' are built from one file and a .pot, or are they manually created?  please tell me from a .pot file or something, as there are a lot of edits that have to me made to those
<Burgundavia> hmm, i have no idea, off the top of my head
<nixternal> alrighty...irc network and server changes complete
<nixternal> i will look into those html files..im thinking they are generated from a .pot file because of all the languages in there
<nixternal> i know we don't give translators an html file to do...
<Madpilot> translators generally smoke pot, don't they?
<Madpilot> ;)
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> i wouldn't doubt it
<Madpilot> I meant .pot, of course
<nixternal> ya
<nixternal> me too ;)
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
<Ubugtu> New bug: #61631 in ubuntu-doc "Unreadable Desktop Guides in Russian" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61631
<pepsiman> in ubuntu-docs/generic/serverguide/C/network-applications.xml
<pepsiman> "...db.root...The servers change over time and must be maintained now and then."
<pepsiman> does it really mean "The servers" are "maintained", or the db.root file?
<bhuvan> db.root file
<pepsiman> can you change the text to make it more obvious?
<bhuvan> hmm, like?
<pepsiman> The servers change over time, so the db.root file must be maintained now and then
<bhuvan> pepsiman: ok
<pepsiman> "(the routing table is always computed in advance, and thus the route is precisely the same each time it used)"
<pepsiman> should that say "each time it is used"?
<bhuvan> pepsiman: db.root change is committed in r3311. if you have more, we are glad to hear them. please raise an issue in launchpad
<pepsiman> I have about 5 more
<bhuvan> great!
<pepsiman> but I've been looking at the Dapper docs, so I need to check current docs first
<pepsiman> I'll make a patch
<pepsiman> done
<Ubugtu> New bug: #61647 in ubuntu-docs "Typos in Ubuntu Server Guide" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61647
<Ubugtu> New bug: #61445 in ubuntu-docs (main) "Unreadable Desktop Guides in Russian" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61445
<nixternal> bug #46906
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 46906 in ubuntu-docs "wrong use of filename instead of guilabel/guibutton in conventions chapter" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46906
<nixternal> is it ok to fix that bug in the dapper branch?
<nixternal> i commited a fix for edgy already
<nixternal> Riddell: have you had the chance to glance at the docs yet?  i know you have been busy with the meeting and all. if you find anything in there (about, release, or dg), let me know and I will fix it ASAP for you
<Riddell> nixternal: not yet, will do later
<nixternal> roger that...i will be here all day ;)
<Ubugtu> New bug: #61712 in ubuntu-docs "Refers to "bug severity" when it should be "bug importance"" [Low,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61712
<LaserJock> hmm, that's for me
<Ubugtu> New bug: #61713 in ubuntu-docs "Invalid path to 'install-css.sh' (in libdvdread3)" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61713
<Ubugtu> New bug: #61714 in ubuntu-docs "BitTorrent sidebar entry is too large " [Low,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61714
<motin> Is the fact that the Help-chapters for Loginscreen-settings are outdated?
<motin> Is the fact that the Help-chapters for Loginscreen-settings are outdated - a bug?
<LaserJock> could be
<motin> LaserJock: should I report it you think?
<amachu> hi all..
<amachu> this is sriramadas alias amachu
<amachu> representing tamil team..
<amachu> happy to join Ubuntu Doc Team
<amachu> :-)
<Burgwork> welcome
<Burgwork> amachu, we are literally on the day of the string freeze, but new people are always welcome
<LaserJock> motin: just make sure you are looking at edgy documentation and it's outdated for edgy
<Ubugtu> New bug: #61722 in ubuntu-docs "Gaim reference is VERY incomplete" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61722
<LaserJock> interesting that we get all the bugs on the day of doc freeze :-)
<motin> LaserJock: aha no this is dapper. don't have to oppurtunity to check out edgy today
<LaserJock> motin: hmm, well if you think it's a bug file it
<LaserJock> motin: but I'm not sure it'll get fixed for dapper
<motin> LaserJock: doc-bugs arent usually security classed, but this one is docs about remote login... what do you think? valid for a backport?
<LaserJock> well, if it was really important it'd go into dapper-updates
<LaserJock> just file the bug and well take a look at it
<nixternal> who is going nuts on bugs?
<nixternal> anyone working on those bugs yet?  if not, im on it right now
<LaserJock> I already commited the fix (and the fix for the fix ;-) ) for mine
<nixternal> nm..it is all ubuntu docs
<nixternal> those are hurting right now
<LaserJock> darn it, my ubuntu mail is acting goofy
<nixternal> what is it doing?
<nixternal> mine is fine right now
<LaserJock> well, I switch the preffered address on LP
<LaserJock> so bug mail from LP goes to the new address
<LaserJock> but anything sent to my @ubuntu.com goes to my old address
<LaserJock> so my email is going to do different accounts today :/
<nixternal> hehe nice
<nixternal> you guys...we need to seriously look over the ubuntu docs..kubuntu docs are good right now...we are going to replace kde logos and images with kubuntu ones shortly and thats it..they are being reviewed right now...ubuntu docs are from what i can see, in shambles
<nixternal> im willing to help out if needed...im not the best with gnome related stuff, but i can lend a hand
<pepsiman> motin: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<motin> pepsiman: thank you
<dholbach> heya
<dholbach> Riddell asked me to do an ubuntu-docs update
<dholbach> Is the rest of the team ok with that? Anything you'd like me to wait for, etc?
<LaserJock> well
* nixternal is scared
<LaserJock> suppposedly we should be at doc freeze...again
<nixternal> dholbach: kubuntu docs should be good as long as he has reviewed them
<nixternal> he == Riddell
<dholbach> nixternal: I meant ubuntu-docs, not kubuntu-docs
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> k
<dholbach> LaserJock: so uploading should be fine
<dholbach> LaserJock: right?
<LaserJock> I believe so
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> I check it out, test build and upload
<LaserJock> thanks
<dholbach> de rien :-)
<LaserJock> dholbach: we are already at Beta Freeze, right?
<dholbach> yeah, roughly
<Burgwork> LaserJock, yes, we are
<LaserJock> k, I was sort of tying the timing of the doc freeze and beta freeze as they are supposed to be on the same day
<LaserJock> stupid timezones
<LaserJock> nixternal: are the Ubuntu docs in bad shape?
<LaserJock> nixternal: I haven't even had a chance to look at them
<dholbach> uploaded
<LaserJock> dholbach: cool
<Plug> Given an image attachment on a wiki page, is there a simple way to put it in a div and float it to the right, so text wraps around it properly?
<Plug> Imagine       [   ] 
<Plug> something like [   ] 
<Plug> this, with the
<Plug> image
<Plug> where my misaligned [] s were :)
<nixternal> plug...check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyEft/Knot3/Kubuntu
<nixternal> i floated all of those images
<nixternal> ||<tablestyle="float: right; background: url(you know this part) no-repeat">||
<nixternal> something along the lines of that
<Plug> aha!  cheers
<Plug> now, if only the ubuntu wiki wasn't so painfully slow at times...
<LaserJock> oh man
<LaserJock> ?!?!
<LaserJock> so it looks like we removed the menu .ent from the desktop guide
<LaserJock> but didn't change the .xml accordingly
<LaserJock> oh wait
<LaserJock> grrr
<LaserJock> darn it
* LaserJock cries
<LaserJock> nixternal: ping
<nixternal> man
<nixternal> pong a longers
<LaserJock> do you know how to create a .pot from the .xml?
<nixternal> xml2po -k -o output_filename.pot input_filename.xml
<nixternal> ...
<nixternal> did i lag out
<LaserJock> hmm, that's not quite right I don't think
<LaserJock> I got a very small .pot
<nixternal> are you trying to get a pot from 1 file, or from multiple?
<LaserJock> multiple
<nixternal> ahh
<nixternal> ok that is different
<LaserJock> it's for the packgaging guide
<nixternal> is there an omf file?
<LaserJock> yeah
<nixternal> ok
<nixternal> ok...
<nixternal> are you in the C/ directory?
<nixternal> if so...
<nixternal> ../
<nixternal> then do
<LaserJock> yeah, yeah, gimme the stinking command ;p
<nixternal> xml2po -k -o output_file.pot C/*.xml C/*.omf
<nixternal> haha
<LaserJock> hmm
<nixternal> hmm what? did it work for ya
<LaserJock> yep
<nixternal> cool
<LaserJock> ok, then I can just commit that?
<LaserJock> I'm going to have to get dholbach to upload a new package :/
<nixternal> yes you can
<nixternal> don't worry...everyone has been giving him a new package today to upload
<nixternal> they have had more cancelled packages than before today along i think
<LaserJock> ok, any other big doc problems?
<LaserJock> I wonder how fresh the ubuntu .pots are :/
<nixternal> not fresh at all
<nixternal> none of the edgy pots are fresh..all the pots you see are dapper pots brought over during the trunk creation
<LaserJock> wha?
<nixternal> ya..look at the commits, when was the last .pot commit?
<nixternal> i think the last time you will see a .pot is when the branch was created
<nixternal> i know i just did all of the translation stuff for dapper, and there was no edgy stuff yet
<LaserJock> mdke did one for the desktop guide on the 8th
<nixternal> i don't know why...there hasn't been any content changes in that..only layout
<nixternal> the only Ubuntu content i have seen changed, was the switching guide..which isn't even going to be in edgy
<nixternal> oh shoot..i hope that doesn't get grabbed and packaged
<LaserJock> looks like mdke did some work on the desktop guide
<LaserJock> mostly structuraly like you said though
<nixternal> ya, but according to his emails, it was just structure
<nixternal> ya
<LaserJock> ok, fixed a bug and refreshed my pot ;-)
<nixternal> i wonder why mdke did some translations tuff back on the 8th
<nixternal> maybe im missing something, but i would think you would do them after the freeze and after all updates and changes have been made
<LaserJock> what?
<nixternal> anywho..im going to recreate the kubuntu ones now and commit
<LaserJock> the translated docs you mean?
<nixternal> i just did  a .pot search on my email
<nixternal> no..aboutkubuntu.pot was created on the 8th
<nixternal> KDG .pot was done on the 8th as well..and it wasn't close to being done
<LaserJock> well, I think translators were getting antsy
<LaserJock> and mdke was getting ready
<LaserJock> who knows
<nixternal> uh oh
<LaserJock> what'd I do?
<nixternal> you didn't do it
<nixternal> im looking at the rosetta stuff for us
<LaserJock> mhm
<nixternal> there are already files being worked on
<LaserJock> sure
<nixternal> for edgy
<nixternal> for instance, your packaging guide
<LaserJock> mhm
<nixternal> which according to LP, is completely translated in French already
<LaserJock> there isn't anything stopping them
<LaserJock> edgy was declared open for translation a while ago
<nixternal> ok
<LaserJock> and the doc team has been quiet on that front
<nixternal> gotcha
<LaserJock> so I assume they just started translating
<nixternal> but what about updates then?  that is a mess
<LaserJock> hmm, this gets even more interesting
<nixternal> do yo have the power to upload a .pot file to LP?
<nixternal> I don't see where to do it
<LaserJock> mdke sent an email to ubuntu-translators ML on the 7th saying talking about doc translation
<LaserJock> it is done automatically from the *-docs package
<LaserJock> I talked to carlos about it the other day
<nixternal> ahh
<LaserJock> so the rosetta templates get updated with an updated package
<LaserJock> that's why we'll need dholbach to upload a new package if after we have the .pots done
<LaserJock> nixternal: so are the Kubuntu .pots updated?
<nixternal> working on them now
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> I think in the future we could really use a "Getting ready for doc freeze" wiki page
#ubuntu-doc 2006-09-22
<nixternal> ok..kubuntu .pots are updated
<nixternal> and comitted..so svn up
<LaserJock> ok, so now we're ready?
<nixternal> kubuntu is, don't know about you ubuntu people ;)
<nixternal> you are a different breed ;)
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> I don't do anything with ubuntu docs
<nixternal> ya.for edgy+1 we need to do some serious work
<nixternal> trappist, robotgeek, and a few others kicked some butt on uploads, but they were all kubuntu related
<jjesse> nixternal: : ping
<jjesse> nixternal: : the release notes don't validate
<jjesse> nixternal: never mind it was my fault
<LaserJock> hi jjesse 
<jjesse> hiya LaserJock
<jsgotangco> hi
<jjesse> hiya jsgotangco
<LaserJock> so we sort of declared string freeze
<jjesse> cool
<jjesse> i'm fine w/ that i guess
<jjesse> however i don't know the status of the kubuntu desktop guide
<LaserJock> although we need to get new uploads of kubuntu-docs and ubuntu-docs to pull in new .pots
<LaserJock> nixternal said kubuntu was pretty ok to go
<jjesse> yeah i thought it was as well, i'm just afraid there are more  changes that need to be done, it was such a short session :(
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> well, ubuntu docs didn't really get touched a whole lot content-wise
<LaserJock> it was mostly structurer
<LaserJock> so overall I think edgy was kinda sucky for docs
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jjesse> i agree
<jsgotangco> we tend to work a lot before the freeze, but this is just wayyy tooo shooorrttt
<jsgotangco> well in a way, the changes to the distro is infrastructural as well for the next
<LaserJock> yes
<jsgotangco> although kubuntu has notable changes
<jjesse> yeah there is, trying to figure out how to put that into the chapter right now
<jsgotangco> im really digging kde lately
<jjesse> can't wait for kde4 :)
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jjesse> but i do love the new theme
<LaserJock> I've been  doing a little KDEing myself
<LaserJock> lately
<jsgotangco> even dapper's kde is solid
<jsgotangco> the fonts are so crisp
<LaserJock> if they'd put a stinkin default keybinding for Copy in Konsole I'd love it :-)
<jsgotangco> oh yeah
<jsgotangco> and url handling
<jsgotangco> very very annoying
<jsgotangco> especially if you use irssi for chatting
<LaserJock> but I do like the kio stuff
<jsgotangco> klipboard is supposed to grab whatever you drag, but that's one more step compared to what gnome-terminal does
<LaserJock> where I can get a split konqi with ssh or something
<jjesse> ok time to walk the dog, be back in a bit
<jsgotangco> since i mostly do my work on emacs, the concept of a desktop for me is already trivial
<jjesse> anyone know how to update the pot files?
<LaserJock> yeah
<jjesse> Riddell needs to know
<LaserJock> for the packaging guide I did, xml2po -k -o packagingguide.pot C/*.xml C/*.omf
<Burgundavia> I believe the make scripts support it
<Burgundavia> but that is all in mdke
<Burgundavia> 's head
<LaserJock> jjesse: did that make sense?
<jjesse> kinda, Riddell did you get that?
<Riddell> yes, thanks
<jjesse> hmmm should i reference irc.ubuntu.org or irc.freenode.org?
<LaserJock> I think the ubuntu one
<LaserJock> somebody recently did a big find-n-replace on those
<jjesse> 5this is for updating the kubuntu chpater
<theCore> jjesse, ubuntu.org? isn't ubuntu.com?
<LaserJock> jjesse: this is from nixternal's commit message:
<LaserJock> "IRC Entity creation for server(irc.ubuntu.com) and network(Freenode currently), irc.freenode.net has been replaced with &irc-server; and Freenode with &irc-network;"
<nixternal> yo yo
<nixternal> i already updated kubuntu .pot files
<nixternal> jjesse: i think the kdg was pretty decent...i know that trappist and robotgeek did some work to it, as well as you
<nixternal> we went over it briefly the other night and it seemed ok
<jjesse> yeah i'm just concerneced that the docs seem so weak :(
<nixternal> i thought release notes were ok, but i guess there was to much in it..as a lot was just removed and the structure was changed
<jjesse> i really like the way the relase notes have changed you did a good job
<nixternal> for edgy+1 we need to look at "style" and "content" big time
<jjesse> i didn't realize how much work needed to be done to update the kubuntu chapter of the official ubuntu book
<nixternal> that patch i just applied though removed a lot of it and restructured it
<jjesse> system settings has a ton of changes :(
<nixternal> oh ya
<nixternal> so now what?
<nixternal> im bored already
<LaserJock> heh
<nixternal> anybody got some work for a "seasonal" doc worker?
<nixternal> ok..can we start edgy+1 now?  get a lead on it?
<nixternal> someone transfer trunk to edgy, and lets recreate trunk...lets get a jump on it
* LaserJock gives nixternal some Ritalin and Paxil
<nixternal> hah
<nixternal> i don't drink, don't do drugs, don't smoke...you can't destroy my temple ;)
<nixternal> i lift weights and run 6 days a week...ritalin and paxil will just pollute it ;)
<nixternal> now if i could just stop with the burritos and pizza
<LaserJock> :-)
<nixternal> im at a lost
<nixternal> im just sitting here staring at my computers
<nixternal> time for wiki work i guess
<nixternal> holy cow!
<nixternal> 346 pages in cat cleanup
<nixternal> {{KubuntuOptimization}}   <-- should be on w.u.c
<nixternal> nice
<nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/test
<nixternal> hrmm
<nixternal> {{KubuntuOptimization}}   <-- should be on w.u.c
<nixternal> argh..you get the idea ;)
<nixternal> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KubuntuOptimization   <-- should be on w.u.c
<nixternal> there we go
* nixternal kicks the wiki
<FireRabbit> problem?
<nixternal> always
<nixternal> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DocBookReference   <-- i sure wish it was ethical to just delete pages
* FireRabbit attempts to load page
<FireRabbit> waiting... waiting...
<nixternal> there are thousands of docbook pages all over the internet..and another one gets created, that isn't 100% accurate either
<nixternal> ya me too
<nixternal> wait wait wait
<nixternal> ;)
<FireRabbit> there we go
<FireRabbit> someone really autta fix that
<FireRabbit> what is the policy on deleting pages? why cant you delete that one?
<nixternal> you don't delete pages, unless you are of a special breed
<nixternal> so that either gets fixed up, or redirected to the Ubuntu Documentation DocBook page, and add some of the tags displayed
<nixternal> i will work on wiki stuff later...i need to sleep...gotta head to canada in like 6 hours
<nixternal> g'nite all
<Ubugtu> New bug: #61825 in ubuntu-docs (main) "Firefox start page still says '6.06 Dapper Drake'" [High,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61825
<pepsiman> is this normal when apt-get installing ubuntu-docs?  '/usr/share/gnome/help/packagingguide/C/appendix.xml:11: I/O warning : failed to load external entity "/usr/share/gnome/libs/xinclude.mod"'
<joachim-n> hi
#ubuntu-doc 2006-09-23
<nixternal> trappist: you around?
<CarlFK> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UpdatingADeb - what does "Immutable Page" mean?
<CarlFK> and why can't I find the login so I can change it
<nixternal> means you and i don't have the rights to edit that page
<nixternal> you have to file a bug against it
<nixternal> interesting..you edited that page before?
<CarlFK> yup
<CarlFK> I wrote that page :)
<nixternal> you can't edit any of the pages on the h.u.c now
<nixternal> that is stupid
<nixternal> the entire wiki is immutable
<CarlFK> ducky
<dsas>  hmm, wasn't someone doing work on the wiki earlier?
<CarlFK> i would hope it didn't lock itself down ;)
<CarlFK> oh no! the wiki has become self aware!
<LaserJock> nixternal: ping
<nixternal> hurry...im in the middle of dressing here ;)
<nixternal> i heard my lappy beep fromt he bathroom ;)
<LaserJock> did you file a bug on the immutable wiki
<nixternal> getting ready to head to the wedding ;)
<LaserJock> heh
<nixternal> no i didn't
<LaserJock> I have no idea why it'd do that
<nixternal> my buddy is screaming, get off the pc nerd
<LaserJock> cya
<nixternal> haha
<LaserJock> have fun
<nixternal> roger that...ttyl
<nixternal> tomorrow when i get home more than likely
<Ubugtu> New bug: #62070 in ubuntu-doc "How to mount/unmount Windows partitions (NTFS) manually, and allow all users to read only" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62070
<LaserJock> Burgundavia!
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: did you see that the help wiki is immutable?
<Burgundavia> umm, no
<Burgundavia> oh, fun
<LaserJock> mhm
<Burgundavia> rt@admin.canonical.com
<Burgundavia> open a ticket by emailing them
<LaserJock> me?
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: can you view tickets anywere? or are they just done via email?
<Burgundavia> just via email
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: I'll do it if you haven't
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: I have not
<LaserJock> fine then :-)
#ubuntu-doc 2006-09-24
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: ping
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: pong
* cosmolax is away: 
* cosmolax is back (gone 00:00:28)
#ubuntu-doc 2007-09-17
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke gutsy * r4377 /debian/ (README changelog rules): strip out unwanted directories automatically
<ubotu> New bug: #140002 in ubuntu-docs (main) "Error installing upgraded cupsys" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140002
#ubuntu-doc 2007-09-18
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
<tonyyarusso> grr - how do I make something in CamelCase NOT a link?
<nixternal> Camel``Case
<nixternal> tonyyarusso: ^^
<tonyyarusso> nixternal: ty
<tonyyarusso> I knew it involved `, but ``CamelCase`` wasn't it
<tonyyarusso> nixternal: btw, how do you manage receiving notifications of EVERY edit?
<ubotu> New bug: #140682 in cupsys (main) "[cupsys-common]  warning during update (dup-of: 140002)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140682
<tonyyarusso> Is it possible to automatically subscribe to all subpages created under something?
<ubotu> New bug: #140802 in kubuntu-docs (main) "Kubuntu-docs: faulty string (#63) in add-applications" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140802
<nixternal> well that sucks...that is why our string freeze is absolutely rediculous....we get bugs filed from translators after the freeze...stupid
<nixternal> ridiculous too
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4378 kubuntu/add-applications/ (C/add-applications.xml add-applications.pot): fixed string - manually uploading pot file
<nixternal> ow well, I fixed it anyways...
#ubuntu-doc 2007-09-19
<ubotu> New bug: #140948 in kubuntu-docs (main) "Kubuntu-docs: faulty string (#71) in network" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140948
<ubotu> New bug: #140952 in kubuntu-docs (main) "Kubuntu-docs: faulty string (#16) in printing" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140952
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: sbalneav * r4379 edubuntu/handbook/C/server.xml: Fixed server sizing, added X_VIDEORAM and X_OPTIONS
<TeTeT> what do you guys use for editing the documentation XML files? gedit, vim, emacs? Any XML/Docbook editors?
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4380 kubuntu/ (5 files in 5 dirs):
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: Fixed printing string for the HP Toolbox (LP: #140952)
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: Fixed network string (typo and grammar)(LP: #140948)
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: Updated the pot files for these files - manual upload to LP
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: Removed the menu option for HP Toolbox from kde-menus
<alitadeposca> hi
<alitadeposca> need a little help trying to get started
<alitadeposca> i want to join the ubuntu doc project
<alitadeposca> anyone can help me?
<alitadeposca> i'm from Argentina, my mother tongue is spanish, so i guess i could translate some docs to begin with, right?
<alitadeposca> anybody out there????!
<seisen> check this link out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Mentoring
<alitadeposca> thanks
<seisen> no problem
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: lucius * r4381 xubuntu/about/xubuntu-index.html: update browser startpage
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: lucius * r4382 xubuntu/desktop-effects/C/desktop-effects.xml: update desktop effects info
<ubotu> New bug: #141099 in ubuntu-doc "Does translate.sh work definitely?" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141099
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: lucius * r4383 xubuntu/ (about-ubuntu/ games/ libs/shipped-docs): we do not need about-ubuntu, because we have about-xubuntu, and we do not ship games
#ubuntu-doc 2007-09-20
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4384 kubuntu/firefox-startpage/kindex-cs.html: adding Czech translation of Kubuntu FF startpage - by Martin B?\195?\182hm
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4385 kubuntu/firefox-startpage/ (kindex-cs.html kindex-eu.html): updated translations and css fix
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: lucius * r4386 xubuntu/ (20 files in 17 dirs): restructure documentation as a "book" and include topics as "chapters" to get rid of linking problem; make it build again; does not quite validate yet
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mantha * r4387 edubuntu/ (5 files in 5 dirs): updated About Edubuntu, added .pots, and added changelog entry
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: lucius * r4388 xubuntu/ (index.xml libs/xubuntu-html-chunk-cust.xsl): make a nice front page with "help topics", and make it validate again
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: lucius * r4389 xubuntu/ (config-desktop/C/config-desktop.xml desktop-effects/): move desktop effects into config-desktop
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: lucius * r4390 xubuntu/ (19 files in 16 dirs): update legal stuff, credits; remove legal notice at start of every chapter this is one coherent document with a single legalnotice at the beginning
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: lucius * r4391 xubuntu/ (keeping-safe/C/keeping-safe.xml libs/xubuntu.ent): rework keeping safe section
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4392 ubuntu/browser-startpage/index-eu.html: Basque translation for Ubuntu FF startpage - thanks to Mikel Paskual
<ubotu> New bug: #141239 in kubuntu-docs (main) "Kubuntu-docs: faulty strings (#13-14) in games" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141239
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: lucius * r4393 xubuntu/ (11 files in 11 dirs): getting rid of ghelp links; improving content on various pages
<ubotu> New bug: #141025 in ubuntu-doc "help.ubuntu.com advertises nvu, which doesn't exist in feisty" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141025
<tonyyarusso> a) a broadcast to all the nodes on its segment
<tonyyarusso> whoops
<ubotu> New bug: #141307 in ubuntu-doc "Command line 'mozilla-thunderbird' should be replaced with 'thunderbird'" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141307
<lucius-antonius> does anyone know what's up with the ubuntu-doc-commits list?
<lucius-antonius> it seems to have been down for ~10 days.
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: lucius * r4394 xubuntu/ (11 files in 7 dirs): bringing in the better parts of the old desktop guide; more rewriting und updating all over the place
<oldmanstan> j1mc|afk: i sent you a patch that includes brasero, check it for me though since i've never used brasero :) (the web site has self-explanatory screenshots)
#ubuntu-doc 2007-09-21
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> kubrick.freenode.net
<ubotu> New bug: #141444 in ubuntu-docs (main) "Basic-commands string 48 report old-data (for feisty and not for gutsy)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141444
<BugMaN> hi
<BugMaN> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs/+bug/141491
<BugMaN> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs/+bug/141444
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 141491 in ubuntu-docs "ubuntu-docs internet string 24 - Device manager is under Preferences not Administration" [Undecided,New] 
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 141444 in ubuntu-docs "Basic-commands string 48 report old-data (for feisty and not for gutsy)" [Undecided,New] 
<BugMaN> i don't know if its too late to fix this typo
<ubotu> New bug: #141491 in ubuntu-docs (main) "ubuntu-docs internet string 24 - Device manager is under Preferences not Administration" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141491
<ubotu> New bug: #141561 in ubuntu-doc "Broken link in Postfix documentation" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141561
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: lucius * r4396 xubuntu/ (6 files in 4 dirs): various cleanups
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: lucius * r4397 xubuntu/ (9 files in 9 dirs): removing omfs, since the information inside is not correct and i do not have the time to update them (what we have here are just copies of ubuntus omfs anyway)
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: lucius * r4398 xubuntu/ (17 files in 17 dirs): update POT files... i hope i did that right :o/
#ubuntu-doc 2007-09-22
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
* #ubuntu-doc  [freenode-info]  channel trolls and no channel staff around to help? please check with freenode support: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
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<rainbow> hi ! Is there someone ?
<rainbow> I  would like informations about ubuntu
<niallj> If I am correcting an error in the documentation reported on launchpad, do I post the patch to launchpad, or to the mailing list?
<alitadeposca> hi everybody
<alitadeposca> i've joined the mentoring programme, and i was wondering if Phil Bull (my mentor) is in this channel...
#ubuntu-doc 2007-09-23
<alitadeposca> hi
<alitadeposca> hi, i know this is not the bug channel, but, since i'm not sure if i should call what happened "a bug" i was looking for a second opinion. I installed ubuntu 7.04 using 20gb. 5 gb (/ mountpoint) 1gb swap and the rest /home. Then i installed some apps using synaptic and i used up the 5 gb. synaptic did not warn me and then, after restarting x, i couldn't start my session, since "there was no space left on device"(according to some message). is th
<xidox> hola alguien alli ?
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: lucius * r4399 xubuntu/ (4 files in 3 dirs): some fixes for basic commands (thanks to george); update its pot file; add pot generation to Makefile
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: lucius * r4400 xubuntu/Makefile: do not ship images of the obsoleted desktop guide
<ubotu> New bug: #144285 in ubuntu-docs (main) "dhclient if_name without sudo in ubuntu-docs" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144285
<jjesse> hello
<jjesse> Admiral_Chicago: nice picture and nice hat on nixternal's blog
#ubuntu-doc 2008-09-15
<Rocket2DMn> you know we can take ntfs-3g off of  CategoryThirdPartySoftware i guess, originally it didnt come installed in Ubuntu
<Rocket2DMn> technomensc2, please watch when you add tags, you left "#language en " hanging on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/USB since it was no longer at the top
<Rocket2DMn> you dont need to be a one man army, take your time
<technomensc2> ::nod::
<Rocket2DMn> technomensc2, are you trying out the new theme?
<technomensc2> yes.  and I like it....except for the fact that the edit link is all the way at the bottom
<Rocket2DMn> the biggest thing that bothers me is the absence of the lines splitting heading 1
<technomensc2> I can see that
<technomensc2> that does suck
<technomensc2> the other thing is there is no consistency regarding links for PageDiscussion
<Rocket2DMn> also, when you search for something on a page and it has to scroll, it gets hidden behind the bottom bar
<Rocket2DMn> yeah i was gonna ask about PageDiscussion stuff...
<Rocket2DMn> im all for trashing it
<Rocket2DMn> except maybe for pages that the doc team uses
<Rocket2DMn> ------
<technomensc2> here here
<technomensc2> I think that might be best for debate
<Rocket2DMn> Can we pause for a moment and come to a concensus on one thing - can we _not_ erase content from pages when we mark them for deletion
<Rocket2DMn> there have been some pages that when they were marked, their content was just flat out removed
<technomensc2> I would agree with that.  I might've done it at the start, but I stopped doing that very very quickly
<technomensc2> realizing it was a bad idea
<Rocket2DMn> i may be guilty myself when i first started
<technomensc2> at least we're nipping it in the bud
<cody-somerville> mdke, ping
<mdke> cody-somerville: (In case I'm not around at the moment, please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I get back)
<cody-somerville> mdke, Xubuntu seems to go to the old homepage even with ubufox installed. I'm touching base with asac to see what we can do.
<mdke> cody-somerville: yes, ubufox provides the Ubuntu homepage - you need to ship an xubufox to customise the homepage I believe. Asac will know more
<cody-somerville> No, it goes to the old xubuntu page
<cody-somerville> We ship ubufox
<cody-somerville> I already spoke with him
<mdke> cody-somerville: and did you resolve it?
<cody-somerville> He said to let him know when you break it :P
<mdke> cody-somerville: sorry, I don't understand that. Removing the alternatives should have nothing to do with ubufox, they are separate systems for providing the homepage url.
<cody-somerville> mdke, If ubufox is offline, it points to the old page
<cody-somerville> which uses the alternative system
<mdke> cody-somerville: that's contrary to my understanding - I'll talk to him
<cody-somerville> s/ubufox/machine
#ubuntu-doc 2008-09-17
<jjesse> evening
<jjesse> hope things are going well
<cody-somerville> :]
<jjesse> :)
#ubuntu-doc 2008-09-18
<Yellow_Stevej> anyone here?
<mdke> evening all
<perlluver> evening mdke
<jjesse> afternoon mdke
#ubuntu-doc 2008-09-19
<dings_> does anyone here know how to get an image attached to the help.ubuntu.com/community wiki and then get it displayed??
<dings_> seems that it works neither using attachment:myimage.png nor [[myimage.png]] - as it says in the moinmoin documentation
<dings_> or can there simply be only text there?
<dings_> if it works (and i am just too daft) can someone please have a look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBook/TripleBoot and fix the screenshots?
<dings_> i dont even remeber how i attached them in the 1st place (way back then) today :-/
<Rocket2DMn> is there an interwiki link for help.ubuntu.com/community from wiki.ubuntu.com?
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: doesn't look like it, only the other way round (the InterWiki page has details)
<Rocket2DMn> thats pretty weak, we should be able to implement that, i mean, we'd use it more than enough....
<Rocket2DMn> im using the new theme right now, too, i dont see a link to add attachments...
<mdke> yes, it's easy to add
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: yeah, I noticed that too, dunno why
<mdke> possibly it has moved in the upgrade to Moin 1.6
<Rocket2DMn> the only other thing that really bothers me about the new theme is that Heading 1 doesnt have a bar going across the screen, i really think that helps keep pages sectioned off nicely
<mdke> I'll fix it
<mdke> I don't like the bar going across the screen, it's really intrusive
<Rocket2DMn> we must be able to do something, at least a partial splitter
<Rocket2DMn> like one that fades off at 2/3 of the way across the page
<mdke> it's possible to do it, I just prefer headings without. I'll have a think about it though.
<Rocket2DMn> mdke, im moving the BT wiki area right now (the stuff i didnt do last weekend)
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: awesome, thanks a lot
<Rocket2DMn> no problem, there are some pages that can be deleted (logs), but we need to ease the rest of the stuff over, so most pages cant be deleted anytime soon
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: alright, just mark them as deleted when ready
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: do you know if this page can be deleted? It's not clear whether the merge has taken place or not
<mdke> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Top20
<Rocket2DMn> let me check
<Rocket2DMn> mdke, its probably OK to delete, it's not a Beginners Team page, it just links to us.  It's rather old and outdated as well
<Rocket2DMn> we're not going to draw from it
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: fine, will do. Thanks
<Rocket2DMn> np
<mdke> hmm. I'm not sure about this one - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SoftwarePackagingFormats
<mdke> it's not obvious whether all the material is duplicated elsewhere
<Rocket2DMn> mdke, probably https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallingSoftware and https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CompilingEasyHowTo
<Rocket2DMn> not sure that needs to be deleted tho, your call
<Rocket2DMn> are you still working on deleting pages right now?
#ubuntu-doc 2008-09-21
<Rocket2DMn> lol getting email spammed so hardcore from bug 272772
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: that's where filtering and threading comes in handy
 * mdke pats gmail
<Rocket2DMn> yeah im having email sent to an aol account, lol
#ubuntu-doc 2009-09-14
<alourie> good morning
<alourie> how should I triage a request for package update, which already exist in Debian? bug #429137
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 429137 in gnumeric "Update gnumeric to 1.9.12 in Karmic 9.10" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/429137
<bdmurray> How do I add an attachment to a wiki page at help.ubuntu.com?  It seems different than wiki.ubuntu.com
<bdmurray> Okay, I sorted it out
<Flannel> bdmurray: If you refer to an attachment, you'll get a dead link thing which you can then use to upload the attachment
<bdmurray> yes, that's rather silly
#ubuntu-doc 2009-09-15
<BiosElement> Hello, I'm with the ubuntu community learning project and we're trying to decide which format we should use, docbook vs. sphinx. The major downfall of docbook is it's rather difficult to edit xml by hand. any suggestions?
<dinda> mdke: did the wiki licensing topic get discussed at the CC meeting yet?
<mdke> dinda: it was discussed a while back, and I've reflected some of the discussion in the spec. It seems to me that there are some serious issues to overcome before the spec can go further though
<dinda> mdke:  agreed. . .
<dinda> mdke: I'm interested in that Canonical is listed as the default copyright holder - which as you point out, doesn't seem ok
<mdke> yeah
<mdke> that's also the case with ubuntu-docs actually
<mdke> but it doesn't work, legally
<doctormo> dinda: Unless there has been copyright asignment, that doesn't sound right
<dinda> mdke: on the other hand, as someone who works for Canonical and having just hired someone to write large amounts of material that could have just been lifted from the wiki. . .
<dinda> well, I'm trying to find a way to not having to keep hiring people to write material that we could somehow jointly develop under a more free license
<mdke> doctormo: there certainly hasn't
<mdke> dinda: there is always a way to jointly develop material under a free license :)
<dinda> mdke;  I'm hoping to find some common ground  :)
<mdke> well, I can't comment without knowing more specifics, but sharing is easy, it's when stuff is unlicensed (like wiki.u.c) that it gets difficult
<doctormo> mdke: We in the Ubuntu Learning project have been discussing the same sorts of things
<dinda> doctormo: exactly, no use in all of us developing and rewriting material that obviously overlaps
<doctormo> dinda: Aye, question of value and investment thought fromt he business side of things. (although I wouldn't have thought FOSS, copyleft and commons needed explaining, perhaps I'll do a thing at UDS)
<dinda> mdke: so what's the status on the copyright issue?  is there a good way to move the discussion forward?
<mdke> it's waiting on the other CC members for their thoughts really
<mdke> if it was just for me, I'd tend to take the same approach as we did for the help wiki
<mdke> I think the chances of it going wrong are very, very small indeed
<mdke> and that's good enough for me. But it's not only my call
<dinda> mdke;  I hope we can get something worked out by the next LTS, as that is when we will be doing the bulk of our work in documentation for Canonical
<mdke> what sort of work are we talking about? user documentation?
<dinda> mdke: basically technical reference manuals for each our courses
<mdke> and does material come from wiki.u.c for that?
<dinda> which is very much just enhanced documentation
<mdke> s/does/would
<dinda> mdke: no, we do it all seperately at the moment
<mdke> what tools?
<dinda> dpending on the course either docbook or odt files
<dinda> the desktop course, which is CC-BY-SA-NC is docbook, hosted in bzr
<dinda> everything else is odt in our private repositories (Moodle)
<mdke> ok, well obviously sharing isn't possible for cc-by-sa-nc material, because any licensing we would apply to wiki.u.c would need to be free (as with help.u.c)
<mdke> but if it's docbook, then you are probably looking at using bzr anyway, rather than a wiki, no?
<dinda> so I'm trying to find a compromise so some of the work we're already hiring for, could be released under the CC SA only license
<mdke> nice
<mdke> it sounds more like stuff that would be appropriate for help.u.c/community rather than wiki.u.c?
<dinda> mdke:  an uphill battle at the moment but if we can separate out our course exercises and practicals, as doctormo calls them, them we might be able to release some of the straight technical reference as CC-BY-SA or other compatible license
<mdke> I'd be pleased to see that
<mdke> the -nc license has always bothered me, as you know :)
<dinda> mdke: you're not alone ;)
<mdke> true
<dinda> mdke: okay, have to run to tea but let me know if there is any movement on the wiki licensing topic - I subscribed to the page
<dinda> but if we need to poke people let me know
<mdke> dinda: will do, thanks
#ubuntu-doc 2009-09-16
<lukjad007> how do you make a series of indented lines one after another? When I try and do it, they are all merged into one paragraph
<ZachK18> on what?
<lukjad007> ZachK18 On the wiki
<ZachK18> ah....
<ZachK18> do you mean like 1 the the number 2 would be down and over?
<ZachK18> lukjad007, like this 1
<ZachK18> 1
<ZachK18>  2
<ZachK18> like that?
<lukjad007> ZachK18 I mean like this:
<lukjad007>    I type
<lukjad007>    I type2
<ZachK18> hmmm...let me see.
<lukjad007>    I TypeI type2
 * ZachK18 is thinking
<lukjad007> ZachK18 ^^ What comes out
<ZachK18> i don't see why it shouldn't indent
<lukjad007> ZachK18 I does, but it makes one big paragraph
<ZachK18> ok.....
<ZachK18> if you want to indent it should look like this.
<ZachK18> Test indent
<ZachK18>  testing indent2
<ZachK18>   testing indent3
 * ZachK18 is away: I'm busy for a few..be back I promise!
 * ZachK18 is back (gone 00:00:11)
<ZachK18> lukjad007, you there?
<lukjad007> Yes
<ZachK18> see what i just said
<lukjad007> * ZachK18 is away: I'm busy for a few..be back I promise!
<lukjad007> * ZachK18 is back (gone 00:00:11)
<ZachK18> well that was testing...the indent message i posted
<lukjad007> Oh
<ZachK18> yeah
<ZachK18> is that what you're trying to do lukjad007?
<lukjad007> ZachK18 I'm trying to get them to all line up
<lukjad007> like:
<lukjad007>    one
<lukjad007>    two
<lukjad007>    Three
<ZachK18> oh hmm
<ZachK18> ok now i understand
<ZachK18> hold on let me see
<ZachK18> lukjad007, got it...each line put a star in front of it...like this
<ZachK18>  *first line
<ZachK18>  *second line
<ZachK18> lukjad007, did you get that?
 * ZachK18 is away: I'm busy for a few..be back I promise!
<lukjad007> ZachK18 Thanks, got it
 * ZachK18 is back (gone 00:46:05)
#ubuntu-doc 2009-09-17
<lukjad007> Does anyone know if this page is for real? There is a comment that says: "## This page is a default template for documentation on the wiki. To create a new guide on the wiki, read the page WikiGuide."
<lukjad007> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/getready_for_linux
<lukjad007> And somehow I don't believe them
<jjesse> rmm i'm on at least 6 channels
<ZachK18> hello?
<lukjad007> ZachK18 Hi
<ZachK18> lukjad007, hey my man
<lukjad007> ZachK18 Were you there for my proud announcement earlier?
<ZachK18> lukjad007, which one?
<lukjad007> I'm going to be installing Ubuntu on all the computers at school
<ZachK18> lukjad007, oh cool! how old are you?
<lukjad007> ZachK18 I don't tell anyone that. :)
<ZachK18> lukjad007, ok....well that's sweet
<ZachK18> lukjad007, can i make you my master on the bt padawan page?
<lukjad007> ZachK18 You already have a master.
<lukjad007> I though
<lukjad007> t
<ZachK18> lukjad007, yeah well he's never on and i've not talked to him AT ALL
<ZachK18> lukjad007, he's not contacted me either
<lukjad007> ZachK18 Well, I'll try and get in contact with him, and we'll see.
<ZachK18> ok
 * ZachK18 is away: I'm busy...back later
 * ZachK18 is back (gone 00:00:05)
#ubuntu-doc 2009-09-18
<ZachK18> anybody here?
<ZachK18> hey
<popey> is there some kind of security thing that prevents me deleting pages from h.u.c/c ?
<popey> if i go to a page - logged in of course - and click "More Actions:" i can highlight any option in the list except "delete page", the mouse kinda skips over it
<popey> (I am doing this because someone did some stupid vandal edits to the wiki. I emailed them and asked them to stop, and they have, but their crap is still there)
<popey> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/hi%5Bpp%5B%5B
<popey> i can of course delete the content, but i dont want to do that, i want to remove the page
<ZachK18> 'lo
#ubuntu-doc 2009-09-19
 * ZachK18 is away: I'm busy...back later
<dhillon-v10> Rocket2DMn: hi, what's up
<ZachK18> heyll
<dhillon-v10> was that to me o_O
<Rocket2DMn> hey
<dhillon-v10> <Rocket2DMn> I need some help with designing my guide, do you have some time
<Rocket2DMn> what is the guide for
<dhillon-v10> gnome-display apperance
<Rocket2DMn> are you writing the guide for the wiki or for system docs?
<dhillon-v10> system docs
<ZachK18> hey Rocket2DMn got a question
<Rocket2DMn> well, im not very experienced with the system docs, i mostly just due small patches for them
<Rocket2DMn> most of my experience is with the wiki
<dhillon-v10> I just need to focus more on my audience according to Phil but I didn't get a change to talk to him
<Rocket2DMn> ah right
<Rocket2DMn> i think he said you needed less about what the program is and more about how to troubleshoot it
<dhillon-v10> oh, that part is what I don't get: if you have a bit of time can we switch to gooby you can point out some more details that way
<dhillon-v10> so what do you say
<Rocket2DMn> sorry, was workin on something else
<Rocket2DMn> what is gooby?
<dhillon-v10> its a collaborative editor where people can chat and edit files at the same time which make it easier to pin point some details
<dhillon-v10> sudo apt-get install gooby :)
<Rocket2DMn> eh, that's ok
<Rocket2DMn> i think ill pass
<Rocket2DMn> unfortunately im not really the guy you should be talking to for writing system type documentation
<Rocket2DMn> i havent written any from scratch
<dhillon-v10> okay I guess I will wait or try later on for Phil
<ZachK18> Rocket2DMn, hello
<Rocket2DMn> hey ZachK18
<ZachK18> Rocket2DMn, hello....was wondering if you have any suggestions regarding me making a doc page for firebird and ubuntu
<Rocket2DMn> firebird the database or firebird from mozilla?
<ZachK18> dbms
<Rocket2DMn> sounds like something that should be in the serverguide
<ZachK18> ok...link?
<Rocket2DMn> the serverguide is part of the system docs
<ZachK18> ok
<Rocket2DMn> well, i think you have to install it separately on the desktop version of ubuntu
<Rocket2DMn> the serverguide source is in the ubuntu-doc branch on LP though
<ZachK18> ok well i'm not a doc member..yet
<Rocket2DMn> anybody can get the branch, just very few can commit to it
<ZachK18> well i can
<Rocket2DMn> you can make changes locally and post diffs on LP inside a bug report
<Rocket2DMn> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation
<ZachK18> well i'm talking about making a full doc page
<Rocket2DMn> you can open a bug report against the ubuntu-docs package and post your diff there
<ZachK18> and it's not just firebird...it's firebird/php5/apache2/pear/
<Rocket2DMn> hmm, i dont really know anything about firebird or integration with that stuff
<ZachK18> that's it exactly....nobody that i've talked to does.
<ZachK18> it took me a month just to get it working
<ZachK18> what wiki template should i use for a new documentation page
#ubuntu-doc 2009-09-20
<JuanCarlos> hai
<ZachK18> what up?
<JuanCarlos> Can anyone tell me how to repair my error or repair this error? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/KarmicCountdownBanners
<JuanCarlos> i want to post my submission but i dont understand the layout :(
<ZachK18> what do you want to do exactly
<JuanCarlos> mine is "Juan carlos" i want it like "Andrew H's" post
<ZachK18> JuanCarlos, hold on...i think i can fix it
<JuanCarlos> :) nice...
<JuanCarlos> sometimes these layout on the wiki seems complicated
<JuanCarlos> for me at least
<ZachK18> they are...hold up
<ZachK18> i think it's because it's a jpg but i'm not sure...let me look some more at the coding
<JuanCarlos> but it says .JPG is OK
<JuanCarlos> :)
<ZachK18> i know...that's the weird part
<JuanCarlos> maybe a bug, or aliencode
<ZachK18> i don't know...
<starcraftman> uh oh, wiki problem. Starcraft.man to the rescue!
<ZachK18> hey starcraftman...look at this page. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/KarmicCountdownBanners
<ZachK18> starcraftman, JuanCarlos can't get it to work...neither can i
<ZachK18> it's his prob though...me helping
<JuanCarlos> hehe, dont work, but i dont know...
<JuanCarlos> some boss would fix it i think :)
<ZachK18> starcraftman, you looking at the page my man?
<starcraftman> JuanCarlos: refresh page.
<starcraftman> {{}} is for embedding images.
<JuanCarlos> aaaah i see, it works!   :)
<starcraftman> [[link|Text]] Is for hyperlinks, link is URL text is whatever ya want link to read.
<ZachK18> can't believe that was it...
<JuanCarlos> thank you so much
<ZachK18> i shoulda known
<starcraftman> JuanCarlos: no problemo, I am a wiki editor after all :)
<ZachK18> same here....just not as good...yet
<JuanCarlos> so {{http:url-of-the-image}} and nothing more?
<starcraftman> ZachK18: hehehe, well consider such a free lesson on links. Can always ask me questions even if stlsaint is my paddy.
<starcraftman> JuanCarlos: yup.
<JuanCarlos> ok, because i upload more...
<JuanCarlos> maybe
<starcraftman> JuanCarlos: sure, should put one for its here and coming tomorrow as well.
<starcraftman> JuanCarlos: also, I'd blend in the ubuntu logo a bit more. It sticks out a bit too much, or change color maybe? Or desaturate?
<starcraftman> just sticks out too much imo.
<JuanCarlos> yes i know :s
<JuanCarlos> but if i make it white is ugly, if i make it gray is ugly, maybe transparency
<starcraftman> I like the background image though, nice, bit biased cuz I'm a kde user I guess
<ZachK18> starcraftman, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DocumentationTemplate i messed it up...
<starcraftman> ZachK18: have to fix up another page do i? Trouble :p
<ZachK18> starcraftman, well i did NOT intend to do what i did...
<ZachK18> starcraftman, realized my serious mistake
<ZachK18> starcraftman, can you fix my huge error?
<starcraftman> ZachK18: lol, calm down, it's just a template, nobody cares! :)
<starcraftman> I'm just messing with ya.
<starcraftman> Also, lesson 2 of today.
<ZachK18> starcraftman, hey don't do that two me man....i'm trying to join the team...not get banned for being an idiot!
<starcraftman> Pull up edit bar, next to Edit > Pagehistory. Click that.
<starcraftman> Next you'll see a new page with all the revisions to wiki, small or large.
<starcraftman> At right you can view any revision, in middle top, you'll see diff column. Ya can see chagnes made to any two revisions (i.e. it sees what lines changed) Don't have to be side by side.
<starcraftman> also lists of course, editor, comments, time etc...
<starcraftman> ZachK18: relax, worst thing that happens is ya delete entire page and I tell Rocket to restore it to a previous revision. We are very relaxed on team, if ya went and did that to 50 wiki pages on purpose then we'd be mad.
<starcraftman> admins have power to restore to a given revision like a snapshot.
<ZachK18> starcraftman, ok whew
 * Rocket2DMn peeks
<starcraftman> ZachK18: lesson 3 for you is don't worry so much. We are easy going.
<starcraftman> hey Rocket2DMn
<Rocket2DMn> o/
<starcraftman> ya wanna restore this template page quick, to previous revision> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DocumentationTemplate
<starcraftman> Rocket2DMn: ^
<starcraftman> saves me manually reeditting.
<starcraftman> if your not busy oh mighty one, I don't mind so much.
<Rocket2DMn> omg ZachK18 how could you! you're a terrible person for editing that page ;)
<ZachK18> shut up! i'm freaking out enough as it is
<Rocket2DMn> im just playin of course, do you need to copy material off of it before i revert it?
<ZachK18> no
<ZachK18> let me do it though...won't learn otherwise
<Rocket2DMn> i dont think you can revert the page
<starcraftman> ZachK18: hehe, ya need to relax a bit. Or else you'll get way too stressed out.
<starcraftman> ZachK18: also, you'd have to manually edit the page and restore it to way previous revision was. Rocket can just revert revisions with his 1337 admin powers.
<starcraftman> ZachK18: this leads us to Lesson 0 btw. Never push save unless ya mean it. :)
<ZachK18> well let me try once ok? how else am i to learn and be able to be accepted as a member?
<starcraftman> ZachK18: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiGuide/Formatting
<starcraftman> ZachK18: theres a wiki sandbox page there ya can play in.
<starcraftman> also has lots of info on formatting. See other pages for more topics.
<Rocket2DMn> you can play on the team wiki too, like under your own personal page
<Rocket2DMn> for example, i have a sandbox here which i play in - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Rocket2DMn/Sandbox
<starcraftman> Rocket's suggestion also valid.
<starcraftman> Up to you.
<ZachK18> i gotta go unfortunately so just do it...tell me how though later
<starcraftman> Rocket2DMn: hehe, love his spirit but he needs to relax a bit.
<starcraftman> hehe, thought he was gonna blow an artery a bit there.
<Rocket2DMn> lol, oh well, we could all need to relax a bit more sometimes
<Rocket2DMn> i know i do, esp after these last few weeks
<Rocket2DMn> ill rever his changes
<Rocket2DMn> done
<Rocket2DMn> starcraftman, his LP avatar makes him look pretty young
<Rocket2DMn> thats ok though
<starcraftman> Rocket2DMn: oh indeed, I'll mess with him extra specially to get him to relax :p
<starcraftman> JuanCarlos: work ok on images ?
<JuanCarlos> yes ATM
<jikuty> for someone who wants to start contributing to documentation, is the Community Wiki the best place to start?
<starcraftman> jikuty: that is a good question. Depends if ya want to do wiki work, if ya want to do system documentation (i.e. the documentation comes local to ubuntu) then no.
<starcraftman> Otherwise, yes, we do wiki work there.
<jikuty> i see, i'd imagine it's harder to get started with system documentation as a new contributor though
<starcraftman> jikuty: different things. To do wiki work ya need to learn the markup, to do system documentation well its not the same. I'm no expert on it, but don't think its much harder. It is separate though, diferent work.
<jikuty> i see
<starcraftman> jikuty: system docs mostly work from bzr and its like dev work though bugs are text not coding. I more of a wiki editor though.
<starcraftman> Rocket2DMn: Care to elaborate?
<jikuty> oh, ok
<dsas> system docs is just a different set of markup really, more like html but with different tags
<jikuty> would a familiarity with LaTeX help?
<dsas> jikuty, being unfamiliar with latex I'm not sure :)
<dsas> the system docs are written in docbook XML
<jikuty> ah, i'm not familiar with it (yet!)
<starcraftman> dsas: ah, thanks for replying. Ah yes, docbook XML...
<dsas> jikuty, It's mostly quite easy to pick up as you read the docs to be honest.
<starcraftman> jikuty: so it's not really a harder or easier, just different things to learn. If ya want to get into wiki work, hit me up. I do lots. :)
<jikuty> are there any plans to improve the organization of the community wiki? from the user's perspective, it seems like just a huge mess of pages with little coherence
<jikuty> starcraftman, thanks - i might do just that
<starcraftman> dsas: +1 Looking at source ya can pick up most markups, lil documentation and asking questions help too :).
<dsas> sure, I think there is a docbook primer in the wiki somewhere actually...
<starcraftman> jikuty: wiki.ubuntu ya mean? Well ya, it's kinda messy and the community huc pages are the main effort.
<starcraftman> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DocBook
<jikuty> thanks
<starcraftman> ^ Those pages are where main effort for wiki documentation is, we keep it clean. wiki.ubuntu to be honest, it's a dumping ground for proposals, homepages, old deprecated info and etc...
<starcraftman> It'll stay messy....... forever. By design.
<jikuty> oic
<ZachK18> hey i'm back
<starcraftman> ZachK18: Indeed.
<starcraftman> and I, I..... well I never left.
<starcraftman>  :)
<ZachK18> lol
 * ZachK18 and starcraftman are funny
<dsas> jikuty, You may already have found it but https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation has info on getting started with the system docs
<starcraftman> ah, picking up on that. Yes, I try. So you better relax buddy, or you'll never survive. Especially seeing as I'm one of the more active bt wiki members :p
<dsas> and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Wiki for getting started with wii docs
<starcraftman> ZachK18: ^
<ZachK18> starcraftman, yes
<jikuty> dsas: yep, i've taken a quick look at those.. i'm going to read them in a bit more depth later
<dsas> jikuty, cool :)
<jikuty> starcraftman: so are the pages in the "Index of available pages" ever actually used by users?
<jikuty> ^ at https://help.ubuntu.com/community
<starcraftman> jikuty: you might prefer > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiGuide/Formatting for documetnation, seems like the wiki.ubuntu ones are a bit unfinished and got moved here.
<starcraftman> or at least wiki one.
<starcraftman> ZachK18: good good, anyway, Rocket2DMn fixed the page in a few seconds. So, what ya wanna do?
<starcraftman> jikuty: well they on welcome page, people better use em. I'm not responsible for that one.
<starcraftman> jikuty: >https://wiki.ubuntu.com/starcraft.man
<ZachK18> well i'm editing a wiki page...(page i made) my doc thing i told you about? or did i not tell you..
<starcraftman> if ya want to see some pages I've done jikuty, see wiki section of my homepage. They can be good for studying source, just don't edit unless a problem.
<starcraftman> ZachK18: nope
<ZachK18> starcraftman, oh...ok...well i'm making a wiki page documentting how to load Firebird DBMS, Apache2, PHP5, PEAR, and FlameRobin on Ubuntu Jaunty
<jikuty> starcraftman: thanks, i'll definitely take a look at them and see what i can learn
<starcraftman> ZachK18: ok, just be sure not overlapping somewhere. We might have entries for em, somewhere. Always search first.
<ZachK18> no...you don't
<JuanCarlos> New series coming soon, bamboo, koala; koala, bamboo :)  http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/7374/bannerkarmic2day30.jpg
<ZachK18> hey JuanCarlos get the coc signed?
<ZachK18> wait...not you
<starcraftman> JuanCarlos: yay, that is awesome! Just two notes. Maybe put a koala faded in the background and make the days left just a tiny bit more noticeable imo. But nice, I like it. Background and effects over are good. :)
<JuanCarlos> tech and nature, the back ground
<starcraftman> JuanCarlos: yup, works. Just tweak it ever so slightly and I think it'll be perfect :)
<JuanCarlos> ok
<ZachK18> starcraftman, thanks for the forums friending add
<starcraftman> ZachK18: I did? Not seeing ya on my list.
<ZachK18> starcraftman, hmm....wait...
<ZachK18> nope...i didn't add you starcraftman....look me up under Zachk18 on the forums and ad me
<starcraftman> there ya go.
<starcraftman> ZachK18: also, making me do work? Really? That's -10 points towards getting membership. :p
<ZachK18> starcraftman, ok i'll ad you
<ZachK18> starcraftman, sit tight lazy boy
<starcraftman> ZachK18: lol, lazy boy.
<starcraftman> ZachK18: now your just plain never getting membership. I'll have ya peeling potatoes belo' decks, avast. And swabbing the decks till they shine!
<starcraftman> oh and I did add ya.
<ZachK18> starcraftman, aye captain....lol....plz let me join!
<ZachK18> i caught that
<ZachK18> think i have a good chance of being accepted? what with all my posts and my doc for firebird and all that?
<starcraftman> hehe, don't worry about it ZachK18, it comes in time. It's not an X > Y, being full member isn't magical either. You just listen to your mentor and you'll be up for vote before ya know it.
<ZachK18> sweet
<ZachK18> well i gotta go continue my project of my doc page
<starcraftman> ZachK18: no worries, enjoy.
<ZachK18> starcraftman, here's the link...it's still a work in progress of course but I value your opinion... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubuntu with Firebird Database
<ZachK18> wait....
<ZachK18> don't do that
<starcraftman> nope, copy url at top with extra /firebird or what not.
<ZachK18> i can't have spaces
<starcraftman> also remember I only see what ya applied to page, not what your editting.
<ZachK18> so i'm gonna delete the page and make a new one
<ZachK18> without spaces
<starcraftman> whats url of one ya made, lemme see.
<starcraftman> Also, only admins can delete hehe.
<ZachK18> not when it's my page
<starcraftman> you can blank out pages by removing all text. But only admins can actually delete entry pointing to a page.
<ZachK18> hmmm
<Rocket2DMn> anybody can delete pages on w.u.c
<ZachK18> ah ok
<Rocket2DMn> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Firebird1.5
<Rocket2DMn> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Firebird2.0
<Rocket2DMn> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Firebird2.1
<ZachK18> yeah but those don't cover what i'm doing
<starcraftman> Rocket2DMn: ah, k, I stand corrected :). How ya doing btw?
<Rocket2DMn> ive been better
<Rocket2DMn> my team lost today, so that puts me in a less-than-ideal mood
<starcraftman> Rocket2DMn: lost? What were ya playing?
<Rocket2DMn> i wasnt playing, i was yelling at the tv
<Rocket2DMn> college football
<starcraftman> oh lol
<starcraftman> sorry, what was I thinking. An IRC guy actually going out to play a real sport :p
<Rocket2DMn> lol
<ZachK18> Rocket2DMn, the pages you listed are for firebird alone.....i've not yet found one doc or wiki page ANYWHERE that details how to set up a ftp server with apache2, php5, pear, and firebird dbms
<ZachK18> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubuntu-with-Firebird-Database
<dsas> ZachK18, You don't need to document them all on one page
<Rocket2DMn> what is pear?
<dsas> cpan for php
<ZachK18> pear is for php5-interbase with firebird
<Rocket2DMn> oic
<Rocket2DMn> what is the primary goal of setting these tools up together?
<ZachK18> and dsas yes i do.....i've had several posts on the forums asking how to make this stuff work on ubuntu and nobody knows...people have replied to those posts with questions....exact questions i had...how to do it
<ZachK18> the primary goal is to set up an FTP server...these programs work just fine on Windows and setting them up on windows is a breeze....on ubuntu....not so much
<dsas> ZachK18, excuse my ignorance, I was under the impression you just had to install php5-interbase
<dsas> don't really know much about the subject though
<ZachK18> no....you need pear as well
<ZachK18> that's why i'm trying to join the doc and wiki team...for this reason...
<ZachK18> because I've talked to Artificial Intelligence on the forums...even he didn't know how to make this stuff work
<ZachK18> so....see my point gentlemen?
<starcraftman> ZachK18: consider me completely ignorant on server stuff for the purposes of this discussion. I do local stuff.
<ZachK18> local meaning what
<starcraftman> ZachK18: not server.
<dsas> ZachK18, Not convinced you have to document an ftp and apache server at the same page as the firebird for php....but then I'm not an expert on the subject.
<ZachK18> trust me...it's a good idea
<jikuty> starcraftman: how long have you been involved with wiki contributions?
<dsas> ZachK18, By all means go ahead and share the link after
<ZachK18> this issue almost made me go back to windows
<starcraftman> ZachK18: ya might want to ask mail list. Doc team has one, how people usually talk. Might wanna sk for feedback on draft, I'm sure someone on mail list has more experience.
<ZachK18> i loved ubuntu...this made me hate it...still love it but now that i've got this working i love it even more
<dsas> ZachK18, Get a draft or outline going then ask for feedback if you want. It may be clearer to some of us then
<ZachK18> i've gotta go offline...moving pc upstairs.....again....my little bro has to watch Emperor's New Groove....again......
<starcraftman> jikuty: good question. Not too long, since begining of summer. I been linux user far longer since early 6.06, and I was a forums support person far longer with over 2700 posts to date :)
<starcraftman> I do a bit of everything. :)
<jikuty> starcraftman: impressive :)
<ZachK18> l8r guys
<jikuty> i'm fairly new to the ubuntu community myself, i've only been using any version of linux for about 1.5 years
<ZachK18> i'm considering myself a partial team member.....is that ok
<ZachK18> what with all the wonderful teasing you've guys have given me....starcraftman
<starcraftman> lol
<Rocket2DMn> geez what did you do to him starcraftman , meanie!
<starcraftman> jikuty: ah I see, welcome aboard then :)
<starcraftman> Rocket2DMn: LOL!
<starcraftman> Rocket2DMn: Me? I'm an angel!
 * starcraftman puts on innocent look.
<Rocket2DMn> well i wouldnt know anything about that
<jikuty> starcraftman: thanks! i really love the project/community, so i'd love to give back to it at some point... documentation/forums seem like a good place to start.
<starcraftman> Rocket2DMn: I'm not that bad, I know worse people than I! Besides, what other fun would there be than to pick on new guys just a bit, gotta get em introduced properly :)
<starcraftman> jikuty: thats the spirit.
<jikuty> alright.. i'm off for now.
<starcraftman> later jikuty
<jikuty> thanks for the information guys, i'll do a detailed read of the information sooner or later
<ZachK18> i'v vack
<starcraftman> ZachK18: I see, and dun worry about the messing, I'm always like this. Gotta keep the amusement rolling on else life gets drab!
<ZachK18> starcraftman, i agree
<starcraftman> good.
<ZachK18> so
<ZachK18> want a link to my wiki page i'm making?
<starcraftman> I'll wait till ya finish more, still got ways to go and left template at bottom. If ya want some pointers, see examples from my wiki work on how to structure and format. Just don't apply after looking at the source :)
<ZachK18> yeah
<starcraftman> ZachK18: Also has good tips. Read different sections from top header > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiGuide/Formatting
<ZachK18> well, i've work to do on it so l8r man
<Zachk18> anybody here?
<Zachk18> or just me
<Rocket2DMn> So how do we know if a package has apport hooks or not?
<Rocket2DMn> oops wrong channel
#ubuntu-doc 2010-09-20
<cjohnston|cell> mdke ping
<cathalobrien> hey just looking any getting involved in the documentation side of things for Ubuntu. Just to note it seems a little too complicated to get started. I know where the bugs are located but is there a task list or plan for the doc team to work over the next few months. I saw an area for tasks but nothing much is on it.
<mdke> cjohnston: hi
<cjohnston> hey mdke
<cjohnston> Did you see my email reference adding info to the community contributions page of the wiki?
<mdke> cjohnston: yes but I'm afraid I don't have time to work on it at present. Possibly next weekend I could
<cjohnston> ok.. any suggestion on someone I could poke to ask?
<mdke> I don't think you can do more than sending a followup email
<cjohnston> ok
<cjohnston> thanks
<mdke> cjohnston: what's the rationale for not simply linking to the DocumentationTeam wiki page, rather than reproducing material?
<cjohnston> Redoing www.ubuntu.com/community
<cjohnston> Providing some text with a little about what is done
<mdke> I guess you've seen https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributeToUbuntu ?
<mdke> this seems like a replacement or rewrite for that, am I right?
<cjohnston> No.. I haven't seen that.. This is to redo the community page currently on ubuntu.com with things identified at last UDS as projects desired to be listed
<mdke> cjohnston: ok, if no one else does anything, I'll see if I can get to it next weekend
<cjohnston> ok.. thanks mdke
<mdke> cjohnston: I can't commit to anything during this week I'm afraid
<cjohnston> ok.. :-)
<mdke> I guess "Dan 'Da Man' isn't on irc?
#ubuntu-doc 2010-09-21
<alourie> good morning
<mdke> morning alourie
<alourie> mdke: I have a bug and need help resolving it, do you have a moment?
<mdke> alourie: I have a few minutes, shoot
<alourie> I've installed latest Maverick build
<alourie> default everything, English
<alourie> when I start Help and Support, it shows a bunch of cryptic symbols
<alourie> very unappropriate :-)
<alourie> so, where would I start with this?
<alourie> s/unappropriate/inappropriate/
<mdke> you're suffering from a bug that has already been reported, it's shown at https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/605577
<ubot2> Ubuntu bug 605577 in yelp (Ubuntu) (and 4 other projects) "Help contents title bar shows cubes with numbers instead of a proper title (affects: 111) (dups: 59) (heat: 726)" [Undecided,Invalid]
<alourie> ah
<mdke> There is not much you can do except for wait for it to be resolved
<alourie> mdke: yea, imagined that, just tried to find it myself. Thanks :-)
<mdke> np
 * mdke is off to work
<jono> mdke, around?
<mdke> jono: (In case I'm not around at the moment, please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I get back)
<zkriesse> What do you need jono
<jono> mdke, I am coordinating a review of our major communities and how easy it is to get involved and participate
<jono> I am looking for two volunteers to help lead this work for the docs team
<jono> starcraftman, would you be interested in helping?
<zkriesse> For the docs team or from the docs team
<jono> zkriesse, either
<zkriesse> Ah
<jono> someone to focus on the docs team and how easy it is to participate
<zkriesse> depends upon what part of the doc team
<jono> the team as a whole
<jono> someone wants to write docs for ubuntu, this process is how easy they can get involved
<zkriesse> ah
<zkriesse> Well writing help documentation for ubuntu is fairly easy
<zkriesse> https://help.ubuntu.com/community is where all the community contributed docs go
<jono> right
<zkriesse> https://wiki.ubuntu.com is for Ubuntu Teams and Project(s) pages
#ubuntu-doc 2010-09-23
<devildante> hi everyone :p
<devildante> I meant :)
<devildante> Can I have some help on uploading attachments in the community wiki? I can't seem to have rights to upload screenshots to ReportingBugs :(
#ubuntu-doc 2010-09-25
<DawnLight> yo
<DawnLight> anyone?
<zkriesse_> DawnLight: yes?
<DawnLight> hey zkriesse_
<zkriesse_> yo
<DawnLight> a page has been written in the wiki by me
<DawnLight> i'd like to let the doco team know about it
<zkriesse_> ok
<DawnLight> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/wakeonlan
<zkriesse_> is that your personal wiki page?
<zkriesse_> wrong place for that page dude
<DawnLight> no, it is documentation
<zkriesse_> and wiki.ubuntu.com is NOT the place for doc
<DawnLight> i apologize. i didn't bother reading the instructions
<zkriesse_> its ok
<zkriesse_> Want me to explain it to ya?
<zkriesse_> im a wiki guru...
<DawnLight> sure
<DawnLight> but
<DawnLight> if only to inform me of where i should put my doc and anything else i must know apart from the style
<zkriesse_> ok
<zkriesse_> i could teach ya quite a bit
<zkriesse_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/zkriesse is my personal wiki page
<zkriesse_> wiki.ubuntu.com is for all the ubuntu teams and their respective projects
<zkriesse_> https://help.ubuntu.com/community is where all the community contributed help docs need to go
<zkriesse_> so instead of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/wakeonlan it should be
<zkriesse_> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WakeOnLan
<DawnLight> thanks
#ubuntu-doc 2010-09-26
<micahg> does the docs team care about short descriptions for packages that are unseeded in universe?
<mdke> micahg: we don't currently take care of any package descriptions, but it is something that we are interested in. If you have a query then we would be happy to try and help
<mdke> Gwaihir: around?
<Gwaihir> mdke, yep!
<mdke> Gwaihir: ciao :) hope you're well
<Gwaihir> mdke, how are you?
<Gwaihir> I'm doing great, thanks!
<mdke> Gwaihir: I'm good thanks, fairly busy at work recently but very well
<mdke> Gwaihir: can you do me a favour? I need a Lucid translation export - https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/ubuntu-docs
<Gwaihir> sure, no problem
<mdke> thanks a lot
<micahg> mdke: I'm just wondering if I can change it since it might affect the way a package might look in software center
<micahg> specifically bug 636014
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 636014 in flashgot (Ubuntu) "xul-ext-flashgot Enhances: thunderbird but synopsis mentions only Firefox (affects: 1) (heat: 234)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/636014
<mdke> micahg: definitely. The whole reason for mpt reporting the bug is to improve the information in software center
<mdke> I suspect that mpt has been through a whole load of package descriptions and reported bugs accordingly
<micahg> mdke: yes, I just wasn't sure if I could still do this past UiF
<mdke> micahg: I don't know what the universe policies are but I'm fairly sure it would require an exception at this stage in the cycle
<mdke> possibly that would cause an issue for translators
<mdke> I don't know
<micahg> mdke: k, but for docs team, there's no issue?
<mdke> nope
<micahg> mdke: k, thanks, I'll check with the translations team
<mdke> np
#ubuntu-doc 2011-09-19
<sladen> hello mdke et al
<sladen> could I draw your attention to bug #844049 and bug #841885 ;  one of these reverts the "power-cog" icon in the top-right back to an earlier single item design.  This should not impact screenshots much if it's not covered.  The other change enlarges the percentage coverage for the desktop.svg icons.  This shouldn't impact screenshots significantly either, because it's the same thing, just enlarged
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 844049 in ubuntu-mono "UIFe: Indicators - Device indicator icon looks like it has an emblem" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/844049
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 841885 in ubuntu-mono "UIFe: New show-desktop icon looks too small" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/841885
<sladen> doc-team, I've done a screenshot showing the evolution:  https://launchpadlibrarian.net/80314809/ubuntu-mono-power-cog-0.0.31-0.0.33-0.0.34.png
#ubuntu-doc 2011-09-20
<YoBoY> hi
<YoBoY> i'm trying to understand how the online ubuntu help is generated, so far I can generate it, but in the 11.04 version or the future 11.10 I can't see a parameter to generate a localized copy. Did I miss something ?
<jbicha> YoBoY: did you look in html/Makefile ? but I believe you'll need the .page's for your language
<YoBoY> there is only the .po
<YoBoY> but this was the same with 10.10, and changing the LN=xx works, but with the new doc, no more LN parameter
<jbicha> YoBoY: there's an LN= in the Makefile but I've never tried it
<YoBoY> jbicha: witch makefile ? I can't find it in https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/gnome-user-docs/natty
<jbicha> YoBoY: ah, that's your problem, html/Makefile is included in https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-docs/oneiric
<jbicha> ubuntu.xsl isn't quite right either there (meaning it's not the same as the one that generated the 11.04 online help)
<YoBoY> jo ok, I missed it ^^
<YoBoY> I haven't gone too far with the oneiric version, my natty can't generate it, missing some YELP_HELP_INIT ;)
<YoBoY> so the natty version can't be generated in another langage ?
<jbicha> YoBoY: yes, you need yelp-tools to build it (which was only packaged in oneiric)
<jbicha> you should be able to just copy the html folder from oneiric to your natty folder though
<YoBoY> hum... good idea, i'll try
#ubuntu-doc 2011-09-22
<benonsoftware> Hi all
#ubuntu-doc 2011-09-24
<andrejz> hello! for a couple of days now translation of documentation at translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-docs/ and translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu are not synced
<andrejz> I am wondering which version ends up being used in ubuntu help in the end so I know which one to translate
<valorie> andrejz: have you filed a bug about that?
<valorie> would be useful if there isn't one yet
<andrejz> yes, dpm has already handled that
 * valorie assumes that the sysadmins have overlooked it, or a script stopped running, or something
<andrejz> but until is fixed i would prefer to translate the "right" branch
<valorie> ok
<andrejz> since the non langpack translation deadline is very close now
<valorie> agreed -- might be good to put the bug # in the chan here then
#ubuntu-doc 2011-09-25
<sonny> buen dia a todos
<sonny> alguien podria ayudarme con un problemilla con java en ubuntu 10.10 por favor?
<jbicha> sonny: please try #ubuntu-es
<jbicha> !es
<ubot2> En la mayorÃ­a de canales de Ubuntu se habla sÃ³lo en inglÃ©s. Si busca ayuda en espaÃ±ol o charlar entra en el canal #ubuntu-es. Escribe "/join #ubuntu-es" (sin comillas) y dale a enter.
<sonny> thanksÂ¡Â¡
<jbicha> sonny: de nada :)
#ubuntu-doc 2012-09-18
<satoris> Hi, how could I make sure this UIFe won't cause any problems for documentation screenshots (as described in the bug): https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-lens-music/+bug/1049651
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1049651 in unity-lens-music "[UIFe] Do not list Internet radio stations in the dash" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<mdke_> satoris: you'll need to subscribe ~ubuntu-core-doc to the bug and ask them. Or contact jbicha who has done all the work on the screenshots this cycle
<mdke_> knome: sure. I am rarely on irc so email is probably the simplest way. I can be around on irc at about 9pm London time today though, in case that fits your time zone
<mdke_> sladen: I'm very rarely on irc nowadays so the best way to deal with freeze exceptions is to subscribe the docteam to the bug report or send an email to the mailing list
<mdke_> knome: I will take a look at the branch later on. My initial reaction just to the layout is to put all the xml in one directory under "desktop-guide/C/", it will be simpler to manage that way, as it is all one document
<mdke_> knome: I'll be out for the day now but catch up with you later
<satoris> mdke_: done, thanks.
<sladen> mdke_: okaydokey.  ta.  jb replied
<knome> mdke_, yeah, i'll make sure i'm around 9pm UTC.
<xnox> isHello =)
<xnox> phhhh... can't type =)
<knome> ;)
<xnox> Is this a place to check about User Interface Freeze Exception w.r.t. documentation screenshots?
<xnox> in particular bug 1052040
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1052040 in ubiquity "[regression] ubiquity greeter does not have overlay scrollbars in quantal, but it did in precise" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1052040
<xnox> it has screenshots attached.
<xnox> I was not sure who e.g. does http://www.ubuntu.com/download/help/install-ubuntu-desktop
<xnox> and if there is other documentation with quantal screenshots already
<popey> anyone around to review https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-lens-music/+bug/1049651 ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1049651 in unity-lens-music "[UIFe] Do not list Internet radio stations in the dash" [Undecided,New]
<eagles0513875> hey guys I have a question what is the difference between the server guide documentation and help.ubuntu.com documentation
<eagles0513875> as I am noticing a big discrepancy on how to setup postfix and dovecot between the two documents
<eagles0513875> anyone alive in here :(
<cortman> Who is able to change community wiki page names?
<cortman> Is this a Canonical-only ability?
<popey> cortman, which page?
<cortman> popey, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnomeClassicTweaks
<popey> cortman, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UserDocumentation?action=edit&editor=text
<popey> cortman, does that work? (you need to login to edit)
<popey> oh, hang on, wrong page
<popey> duh
<popey> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnomeClassicTweaks?action=edit&editor=text
<cortman> No popey
<cortman> I meant rename the page
<cortman> sorry
<popey> interesting, cortman the rename option is greyed out for me too
<popey> i guess there's a team I am not in
<cortman> Yeah- it'd be the administrators team I believe.
<bkerensa> jbicha: reviewing a bug for desktop team to ensure it wont conflict with out screenshots
<jbicha> bkerensa: thanks, removing features is easier for docs than adding them :)
<bkerensa> jbicha: I also didn't see any screenshot including the internet radio in the branch
<bkerensa> so it should be fine
<jbicha> yes
<knome> mdke_, i'm ready. :)
 * pleia2 waves
<knome> hallo pleia2
<knome> i actually hope we aren't late...
<pleia2> it's not 21 yet :)
<knome> "9pm london time"
<knome> that sounds like 1 hour ago
<knome> (yeah, i just noticed)
<knome> duh. i'll just handle it over email if he's not around :)
<pleia2> doh
<knome> hehe. that's life...
<bkerensa> knome: what did you need?
<bkerensa> jbicha: are we squared away mostly or do you have any work items we need finishing?
<knome> bkerensa, looking at the xubuntu docs, i don't know what mdke had in mind
<knome> bkerensa, i saw you looked at the docs - thanks - and i've now fixed the build errors
<bkerensa> ok
<bkerensa> which branch was this again? remind me?
<bkerensa> so I can pull it and have a look
<knome> let me check, rocket2dmn pushed it to a new location
<knome> bkerensa, what's your email, i could fw you a mail
<bkerensa> bkerensa@ubuntu.com
<knome> sent
<knome> bkerensa, obviously trying to get this done and uploaded by thursday
<bkerensa> oh
<bkerensa> yeah before freeze
<knome> yep
<bkerensa> jbicha: can you create a new quantal branch for them?
<bkerensa> So they dont hit the freeze wall
<bkerensa> knome: What time was mdke supposed to meet with you guys on IRC?
<jbicha> knome: hopefully rocket2dman will be able to review the new docs for you
<knome> bkerensa, 9pm london time, so over hour ago
<jbicha> if it becomes a blocker on Thursday, I might be able to push it for you but I don't have much experience with docbook
<knome> jbicha, can you elaborate what you are referring to "reviewing" here? i'm totally new to docs stuff
<knome> the docbook stuff should be ok, there's no errors etc.
<knome> the only thing i don't know about is the translations and how the package creating magic happens
<jbicha> knome: no one from xubuntu has commit access to those branches, right? someone from Docs needs to merge them? that's what I mean
<knome> jbicha, i believe that's true
<bkerensa> jbicha: at some point it might be helpful to  add me for reviews so I can merge stuff since we are understaffed
<knome> jbicha, for R, i'm totally willing to take the workload for xubuntu if you wish
<bkerensa> knome: we just review your MP's to ensure they are sane and if they are then they get merged and eventually you guys should have a commiter
<knome> bkerensa, sounds fair
<knome> this one is a complete rewrite, so i don't know how much it makes sense to look at diffs at least
<jbicha> bkerensa: how much experience do you have with either docbook or Mallard?
<knome> i truly believe i've well enough familiar with docbook, but the translations/building is hebrew for me
<bkerensa> jbicha: I am familiar with docbook not so much with mallard
<bkerensa> jbicha: I am looking over their MP right now
<jbicha> bkerensa: so for commit access, we're looking for multiple, good merge patches or MPs from you to the Ubuntu documentation
<jbicha> if you have that, you're welcome to apply for commit access on the mailing list
<bkerensa> jbicha: are there even any candidates work items to submit patches for atm?
<bkerensa> candidate* work items
<jbicha> my list from precise is mostly still undone
<jbicha> Unity documentation in general is very lacking in ubuntu-docs
<jbicha> even proofreading the docs (whether for ubuntu, ubuntu server, kubuntu, etc) and submitting fixes to readability or updates to reflect current features are very welcome
<knome> just a note that there's no sense to proofread xubuntu on precise... we will have to look for a possible update for a later point release
<jbicha> precise in general is not a good candidate as documentation SRUs are rather painful
<bkerensa> jbicha: can you remind me the precise list
<jbicha> I need to update this, but this was my precise todo list: http://pad.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-docs-todo
 * knome is drumming the table anxiously
<bkerensa> knome: so basically jbicha will review if he has time before Thursday
<knome> if not?
<knome> is there anything i can make to speed up this process?
<jbicha> if not, then we let the Release Team we're going to need a Documentation Freeze Exception
<bkerensa> knome: likely not there is really only one or two people who review things and jbicha is one of them but they have a lot of other projects and have to complete ubuntu-doc itself
<knome> ok. if mdke has time, can he do the review too?
<bkerensa> jbicha: fyi I just submitted a MP for ubuntu-doc
<bkerensa> ttyl
<bkerensa> knome: ^ He could but the liklihood is slim
<knome> bkerensa, i know, and i'm sorry we're this late, but we literally rewrote the whole docs from scratch this cycle
<bkerensa> knome: no worries
<knome> thanks
<mdke_> knome: really sorry about earlier
<knome> mdke_, oh, no problem.
<knome> :)
<mdke_> thanks to jbicha for emailing me
 * mdke_ reading scrollback
<jbicha> I figured you might not be on IRC at the moment but maybe you were still checking email :)
<mdke_> email makes a noise on my phone yeah. Man I suck
<knome> lol
<knome> i'd never let that happen :)
<mdke_> ok, so what's the issue
<knome> well, you got the mail
<knome> we want our docs reviewed and uploaded
<knome> i have personally two main concerns:
<knome> how are the translations going to work?
<bkerensa> knome: there you go ^
<bkerensa> see busy people :)
<knome> and; how is the packaging going to work?
<mdke_> ok
<knome> bkerensa, heh, yeah, thanks ;)
<knome> i think we're ok with docbook; it all validates now without errors
<mdke_> knome: your first objective must be the packaging side, as that will allow the package to be uploaded in time for the freeze
<mdke_> the translation will be pretty easy and I can take care of it
<knome> ok, i have no idea about packaging in general, and i have no permissions to push anywhere.
<mdke_> ubuntu-docs uses the gnome build system, but I would imagine that for xubuntu-docs that will not be appropriate to have gnome dependencies.
<mdke_> so we should use the packaging system from the historical xubuntu-docs for simplicity
<mdke_> have you figured out how users will view the documentation?
<knome> yeah, that sounds good (we're also tight on space, so...)
<knome> they'll view the docs in a browser, as html files
<mdke_> ok, good
<mdke_> I'll take a look at the packaging tomorrow and see what I can do
<knome> thanks
<knome> can i do something before that?
<jbicha> knome: doesn't xubuntu also already have yelp installed?
<knome> jbicha, probably, but this is actually all built to work with a browser
<knome> s/probably/yes/
<jbicha> oh ok, it's an option in the future then
<mdke_> jbicha: if we try to use yelp there could be an issue about how to point it at the right document which could be complex I guess
<knome> yeah, for Q i just want to get it in
<jbicha> and if you're using yelp, you could even switch to Mallard
<jbicha> I get a commission for every new Mallard user I sign up :)
<knome> i've heard not all of our stuff even works in yelp
<knome> (some inline icons missing)
<knome> really don't want to hassle with that...
<jbicha> yeah, too late to be fighting with new shiny
<mdke_> I'm not sure there is anything that you can do in the meantime
<knome> and honestly i don't know how much sense it would make to convert the docs AGAIN
<knome> mdke_, ok, i'll just anxiously wait :)
<mdke_> hopefully not too many changes will be required to the package system
<knome> mdke_, do you have any idea what time would you get into it? i can try to be on irc at that time
<mdke_> one thing I did notice was that you have a lot of files in different directories
<mdke_> I think we should simplify that by putting them in one directory, as they are all part of one document
<knome> yeah, that's what we had before, so i didn't mess up with that
<mdke_> ah, I see
<mdke_> perhaps leaving that will minimise the packaging changes required then, so I'll dig a little deeper
<knome> mm-hmm
<mdke_> I'll be working on it in the evening London time
<mdke_> but this time I won't forget
<knome> ok, we have a community meeting at 15UTC, and before or after that is great
<knome> (during is ok too, but a bit distressing)
<mdke_> if we need a little flexibility in relation to the freeze, I imagine that won't be too problematic, since it is important to get this in, and I don't believe that xubuntu-docs has had any translations in the last few releases, so anything we can do is basically an improvement
<mdke_> knome: it will definitely be after your meeting
<knome> hah, you say translations? it hasn't had much love after natty anyway
<mdke_> in terms of getting it uploaded, I don't know if I have upload rights for that
<knome> (mostly just updating the version numbers)
<mdke_> right
<mdke_> anyhow we will find someone to do the upload if needs be
<knome> sounds good :)
<mdke_> sorry again for the hassle this evening
<knome> np really
<knome> thanks for taking care of it
<mdke_> that's ok, I haven't done anything this cycle so it may be a way to get me back into a little Ubuntu work
<knome> heh, that's good too then
<mdke_> ok, I'll see you tomorrow, thanks for all the huge work on xubuntu-docs
<knome> np, see you :)
<jbicha> knome: do you have upload rights for the xubuntu-docs package?
<knome> jbicha, i'm most certain i don't
<mdke_> I might, but can't remember
<knome> jbicha, unless being on ~xubuntu-doc warrants that :P
<jbicha> knome: I'm a MOTU so I could upload it if mdke can't
<mdke_> oh awesome
<knome> jbicha, <3
<jbicha> mdke_: I'm going to poke you Thursday night or Friday for an ubuntu-docs upload since I don't have rights for that
<mdke_> ok, I've found the email - i don't have xubuntu-docs upload rights. Only ubuntu-docs and gnome-user-docs
<knome> mdke_, do you know who gives those permissions?
<mdke_> jbicha: fine by me. Thanks also to you for working on everything single handedly
<mdke_> knome: I'm a little out of date on procedures, in my day it was the TB. Now I suspect there is a different board that does it
<mdke_> it's tough to keep up with all these boards
<jbicha> knome: yeah, it's still the Tech Board
<jbicha> oh, no wait, it's https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard
<knome> heh.
<mdke_> hah!
<mdke_> ok, I don't feel so bad now
<mdke_> ok, night all
<knome> night mdke_ and thanks!
<jbicha> knome: you already have rights to upload xubuntu stuff?
<knome> jbicha, i don't, i'm not a developer
<knome> i mean, in the "traditional" meaning
<jbicha> oh, well I guess you could apply either for xubuntu-dev or for PPU (per-package-uploader) for the stuff you do upload
<knome> well, we seem to have people in the DMB and people who have upload rights to xubuntu-doc too :P
<shaunm> jbicha: come on, work for that commission!
<jbicha> shaunm: I actually did some local docs mentoring yesterday, maybe she'll be a future Docs Team member
<jbicha> I've also tried teaching my wife but she runs away whenever she sees something that looks anything like code
<shaunm> jbicha: then you want my visual mallard editor
<jbicha> my wife was asking for that yesterday, I said it was mythical
<jbicha> is it alpha yet?
<shaunm> http://i.imgur.com/Xa30C.png
<shaunm> you can't argue with screenshots. screenshots are *never* fake. ;-)
<shaunm> no, it's in the crappy prototype stage. not even useful for a simple page
<jbicha> it'll be a webapp?
<shaunm> yes-ish
<shaunm> the editor component ought to be sufficiently reusable that we could stick it in a webkit web view and wrap it up with some gtk widgets
<jbicha> I guess my question was whether it would be exclusively web
#ubuntu-doc 2012-09-19
<jrwren> i think that was the most activity i've seen in months.
<jbicha> jrwren: yeah, I guess it takes an impending freeze to bring us to life
<jrwren> i figured, which is why i've been idling for months
<jbicha> jrwren: oh, you have pending ubuntu-server merge proposals
<jbicha> I wonder where pmatulis has been as he was basically heading up ubuntu-server docs for precise
<jrwren> i had a pull request submitted, yes.
<jrwren> i don't know if it was welcome or not
<jbicha> I wish you had explicitly pinged us again on chat or on the mailing list
<jbicha> I get too much automated LP email to see everything
<jrwren> ah.
<jbicha> yeah, merge requests are very welcome!
<jrwren> i might have pinged once months ago.
<jbicha> because we're understaffed and busy, you may need to ping us multiple times until you get a reply
<jrwren> i wrote a wordpress section for ubuntu-server-guide web applications section. is that welcome?
<jrwren> understood, i just don't want to nag
<jbicha> WordPress is a bit tricky as I don't know if we actually recommend using the wordpress package to run a production site
<jbicha> but on the other hand, I don't know if we want to specifically discourage that either
<jbicha> there's also the juju charm way of deploying wordpress, but that requires the web admin to have access to a cloud (I don't)
<jrwren> i really like the server guide and i felt like there was good need for such a guide.
<jrwren> yeah, i was aware of hte juju way, but that is, like you say, something a little different.
<jrwren> i just felt the web apps section of the server guide was lacking so I wanted to add something
<jbicha> why don't you try asking pmatulis or the ubuntu-server mailing list to review the WordPress section
<jbicha> at this point, it's running awfully close to Documentation Freeze so it might have to wait for 13.04
<jrwren> https://code.launchpad.net/~evarlast/serverguide/wordpress/+merge/117135
<jrwren> oh yeah, i also fixed some typos and some incorrect postgresql stuff still referencing 8.4 instead of 9.1
<jrwren> https://code.launchpad.net/~evarlast/serverguide/postgresql91/+merge/116710
<jrwren> https://code.launchpad.net/~evarlast/serverguide/typo/+merge/116660
<jbicha> I'll go ahead and merge your other work though, thanks again!
<jrwren> no prob, yw, glad to have helped.
<jbicha> I also don't know who's lurking in the chat room
<jbicha> I mean, what's the difference between shaunm and shaunm_ ?
<shaunm> jbicha: two computers
<shaunm> I don't have separate nicks set up, so whichever is on first is shaunm. and usually that's my desktop computer.
<jbicha> mattprice: hi
<mattprice> jbicha: hi
<jbicha> um, so about bug 1049593
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1049593 in unity "[FFE][UIFE]Dash - Finesse the placement, movement and behaviour of the 12.10 Dash " [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1049593
<jbicha> I'm having a hard time even triaging what that huge list of changes is, and I'd expect the Release Team to have the same difficulties
<jbicha> as far as text content goes in ubuntu-docs we need to freeze by tomorrow unless the Release Team would postpone the freeze
<jbicha> screenshots won't be quite complete (for instance, bug 1001229 broke the power indicator style but that will be fixed soonish)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1001229 in ubuntu-mono "wrong icon for the power indicator after last 12.04 update" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1001229
<jbicha> our docs are in lp:ubuntu-docs and use the Mallard format
<jbicha> http://projectmallard.org/ has a tutorial & specification; there's some 1-page cheat sheets at https://gitorious.org/projectmallard/mallard-cheat-sheets
<jbicha> I have a script in the bzr branch to help automate screenshots but it wasn't working 100% yet
<jbicha> I'm not sure that JohnLea understands the effects of breaking the UI Freeze so dramatically is
<jbicha> it discourages the Docs Team from working on docs until the last minute since things will change anyway
<jbicha> mdke_ mentioned the tight schedule in https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2012-May/016697.html
<jbicha> and I believe it is related to the fact that we have almost no translated screenshots in ubuntu-docs
<jbicha> on the other hand, as long as the script works, re-doing the screenshots and even translating them isn't too hard...
<jbicha> mattprice: do you have any thoughts?
<mattprice> jbicha: this is a tough one for me as I haven't worked on Ubuntu documentation before. I've offered to help where I can, but I've got a lot of catching up to do, just to understand the issues.
<mattprice> jbicha: Where do you suggest I start? Do you have work you'd like me to amend/add to or are you looking for someone to originate docs?
<mattprice> jbicha: I certainly don't want to obstruct anything (quite the opposite) but I need to be clear about what you need me to contribute or I could end up wasting your time.
<jbicha> I think I'm going to -1 the UIFE request
<mattprice> jbicha: okay - but do get in touch if there's anything you think I can help with. As long as I'm clear about what's required, I'll make the time to help speed things along.
<jbicha> mattprice: sure, thanks; if you have extra time and want to learn ubuntu-docs, please ping again when we don't have so many imminent deadlines
<mattprice> jbicha: will do :)
<trijntje> Hi all, is this the correct template for the ubuntu documentation in Quantal?
<trijntje> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/quantal/+source/ubuntu-docs/+pots/ubuntu-help
<trijntje> because it seems like it hasn't changed since precise
<jbicha> trijntje: we generally don't post the translation template for the new release until DocumentationStringFreeze
<knome> mdke_, i'm around and ready whenever you are :)
<trijntje> jbicha: I see. I'd probably be fine to do so, most programs open their template before freeze, it gives translators more time to do their job if they want to take the risk
<jbicha> knome: oh, another meeting?
<trijntje> unless there are a lot of rewrites ofcourse. But does that mean the template will be updated tomorrow?
<jbicha> trijntje: could you ask your question about posting the template earlier to the -doc & -translators list?
<jbicha> mdke_ basically handles that & he may have reasons for delaying the template like we usually do
<knome> jbicha, nah, he just promised to review the xubuntu docs and i promised to be around :)
<jbicha> we are talking about pushing DocumentationFreeze back until Tuesday but once it's frozen, translations will open
<knome> hmm, specific reason?
<jbicha> knome: Design really wants bug 1049593 approved
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1049593 in unity "[FFE][UIFE]Dash - Finesse the placement, movement and behaviour of the 12.10 Dash " [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1049593
 * knome tries to keep calm
<knome> i thought the freezes are there to be followed, not moved around if you don't make it (:
<jbicha> and there are so many things landing today/tomorrow I don't think I could have finished the screenshots tonight anyway
<trijntje> jbicha: thanks. I'm not sure if opening them earlier would be better. I'll start a discussion on both lists if the amount of new strings is a big shock ;)
<jbicha> trijntje: you do translations online on LP, right?
<trijntje> yes
<mdke_> trijntje: the translations for ubuntu-docs are done on the upstream project and not on the ubuntu package
<mdke_> trijntje: the docs have not changed much since precise except for a big load of changes over the last few days, so opening translations earlier would not have worked for us really
<mdke_> trijntje: but any work done on the strings that have remained will be used
<mdke_> knome: hiya
<trijntje> mdke_: where should I translate the docs? For precise we completed the translations on launchpad, and the docs are installed on my system
<knome> mdke_, hey :)
<trijntje> *translated on my system
<mdke_> trijntje: always here: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-docs
<mdke_> we'll sync translations done on the ubuntu package location too though
<trijntje> mdke_: looks like that template shares translations with the quantal template, so both should be fine
<mdke_> trijntje: we haven't set up the quantal template yet for ubuntu-docs, but when we do, it will share translations with the link you posted earlier
<mdke_> jbicha: design should really learn to respect the freezes. There seems to be a basic assumption that freeze exceptions will always get waved through
<knome> i totally agree with mdke.
<mdke_> knome: working on xubuntu-docs at the moment btw. (Not just whinging.)
<knome> mdke_, great! :)
<mdke_> I have actually ended up restructuring the doc so that all the files are in one directory, I don't think the directory structure would have worked for translating the index as things were
<knome> aha :)
<knome> worksforme, as long as it works ;)
<mdke_> knome: did you work on the html output too when working on the branch?
<knome> mdke_, what do you mean by that? i built the docs and looked they looked fine, but i didn't manually touch them
<mdke_> in terms of the css and so on
<knome> yeah, i revamped the whole css.
 * knome is essentially a webdesigner/graphic artist
<mdke_> just trying to figure out how I've mucked it up
<mdke_> but now i see it
<mdke_> knome: lovely job on the look
<knome> mdke_, thanks :)
<mdke_> knome: is xubuntu also using the startpage from this package as well as the desktop guide?
<knome> mdke_, yup, that should be uploaded already though
<mdke_> knome: ok. Is it ok to change the path slightly where the desktop-guide is being installed? So now under my package it would be: /usr/share/xubuntu-docs/C/index.html
<knome> mdke_, ummh.. if you can cooperate with mr_pouit to get our launcher in the menu fixed
<mdke_> where does it currently point?
<knome> well, the startpage actually
<knome> file:///usr/share/xubuntu-docs/about/xubuntu-index.html
<knome> docs are at: file:///usr/share/xubuntu-docs/index.html
<jbicha> changing where the launcher points should be easy
<mdke_> what happens in other languages?
<knome> mdke_, i've no idea.
<knome> jbicha, yes it's trivial, but needs to get done :)
<mdke_> my concern would be how will users view the translated docs
<jbicha> we can push it at the same time as the xubuntu-docs upload
<knome> mdke_, mine too, if you have that concern :)
<mdke_> I would like to change the path so that other translations can be included at /usr/share/xubuntu-docs/fr/index.html
<mdke_> but then again, if the browser will not change the path depending on the language, there is not a lot of point in doing that
<knome> mdke_, if you want, i can install quantal in vbox a bit later today and try with another lang
<jbicha> knome: see, that's why we need to get you using yelp for 13.04; translations should *just work*
<mdke_> is there someone we can ask about what behaviour the browser would have/
<mdke_> ?
<mdke_> rather than go through the effort of installing a vbox
<knome> mdke_, i don't think so
<knome> mdke_, i can always report a test to the ISO tracker when i do that :)
<jbicha> I think trying to get the browser to auto-detect the language and use a translated local copy is a bit complex
<mdke_> we used to do it with epiphany for the Ubuntu browser startpage
<mdke_> but I agree, it's likely to be out of reach for this cycle
<jbicha> it mostly works on help.ubuntu.com/12.04/ubuntu-help/ but that's because apache2 is running & handling that
<knome> mdke_, well, i can ask if somebody has a non-enlish xubuntu Q
<mdke_> we may just have to bite the bullet for this cycle and use the old path
<mdke_> on the basis that having one language is a lot better than no languages
<knome> hehe.:)
<knome> yeah...
<mdke_> and then see if we can figure out something for translations in the next few days
<knome> sounds good.
<mdke_> I will probably change the link to the docs from /usr/share/xubuntu-docs/index.html to /usr/share/xubuntu-docs/desktop-guide/index.html for coherence
<mdke_> that should be fine because the browser startpage can be updated in the same upload
<knome> worksforme
<knome> yes
<mdke_> so that the link is corrected
<knome> yup, good :)
<jbicha> you could have separate binaries for the different languages with their own launchers, ie xubuntu-docs-fr
<jbicha> do you have a launcher on the panel by default or just in the menus?
<knome> jbicha, just the menu
<knome> i believe...
<mdke_> knome: can you try this out for me? http://www.mdke.org/tmp/xubuntu-docs_12.10.1_all.deb
<mdke_> seems fine to me but I don't use xubuntu
<knome> mdke_, let me boot up my quantal vbox in a moment
<mdke_> great
<knome> confirmed; there's no translation for precise docs
<mdke_> jbicha: after knome has checked it out, please can you upload the package from lp:xubuntu-docs?
<jbicha> mdke_: yes
<mdke_> jbicha: thanks a lot
<mdke_> knome: in due course, perhaps you can have a word with whoever maintains the browser/launcher about whether they have any ideas for allowing translated documentation to be viewed automatically. Then we'll see what changes are needed to xubuntu-docs
<jbicha> knome: do you know off-hand what source package provides that launcher?
<mdke_> jbicha: on an unrelated topic, you should be able to run "make pot" as shorthand to update the translation template.
<mdke_> (for ubuntu-docs)
<knome> jbicha, nope
<mdke_> what's the browser?
<jbicha> mdke_: oh, it's magic then?
<mdke> yeah
<mdke> if you have done ./autogen.sh at some point in your tree
<mdke> it will only work if you have touched the page files more recently than the pot file
<mdke> otherwise it will say "nothing to do" or similar
<jbicha> knome: ah, it's xubuntu-default-settings
<knome> mdke, "The package is of bad quality"
<knome> mdke, but there is no actual output on it
<knome> mdke, do you want me to "ignore and install" ?
<jbicha> lol, that's not very nice of XFCE to criticize our packaging!
<knome> it was actually *UBUNTU* software center who did that..
<jbicha> oh really?
<jbicha> crazy
<jbicha> knome: I don't think the launcher link needs to be updated, it points to file:///usr/share/xubuntu-docs/about/xubuntu-index.html which I believe is correct
<knome> mdke, hmm...
<knome> mdke, note that there are relative links to images in the docs
<knome> mdke, so now that you moved the docs to desktop-guide/, the relative links do not work anymore
<knome> mdke, you should be able to edit the paths from xubuntu.ent in lib/
<knome> mdke, just replace "common/" with "../common/"
<knome> mdke, lines 63, 64, 67 and 77
<knome> mdke, anyway, installed the package with gedi and it looks fine.
<knome> isap
<knome> meh
<knome> now you (too) know my test-vbox sudo pass :P
<mdke> knome: ok, xubuntu.ent is the only file I didn't update the links in, I think
<mdke> jbicha: that change is pushed to the branch, so if you are able to upload, that would be great
<mdke> what's all this about bad quality? Is that because it is a deb rather than in a repo?
<jbicha> mdke: knome: uploaded https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-docs/12.10.1
<mdke> jbicha: you won't have that fix then I guess
<mdke> ah, you did it
<mdke> thanks
<jbicha> :)
<jbicha> I didn't know if you were done for the night or not
<jbicha> I didn't get that bad quality warning even when I tried using Software Center to open the .deb
<mdke> cool
<mdke> alright, perhaps I am done for the night then :)
<jbicha> I did fix a lintian error though
<mdke> thanks, I'm not good at that
<jbicha> it wasn't your fault, just a left-over maintainer script; instead of fixing it I just dropped it
<mdke> :)
<jbicha> oh, we should probably do whatever that magic is to get universe packages translatable in LP
<mdke> not needed, I don't think - we would just use the xubuntu-docs project
<mdke> but there is not a lot of point unless we know that the translations can be used by the browser
<jbicha> ok
<skaet> jbicha,  I've moved the DocsStringFreeze on the main ReleaseSchedule pages to 9/25.   Do you want me to update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/ReleaseSchedule ?
<skaet> (its still got precise dates in it),   also any other place that needs updating?
<jbicha> if you like, I obviously haven't been using that page since precise
<jbicha> I think the only other place is an email to -doc, -translators, and -release
<skaet> email in composition.
<knome> jbicha, mdke: THANKS!
<knome> hmm, somebody familiar with the launchpad doc teams?
<knome> what's the need for https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-doc ?
<knome> does people on that team get some access to stuff, since it's a subteam of ~ubuntu-doc?
<jbicha> no, ubuntu-core-doc has commit access, I don't think ~xubuntu-doc has any extra privileges
<knome> ok, it's okay to approve people to the team as we see fit?
<jbicha> it's probably equivalent to ~ubuntu-doc-contributors but focused on xubuntu
<jbicha> you could make the team open if you wanted, or keep it moderated
<knome> jbicha, ok, thanks for the insight
<knome> hmm, could we simply remove the team?
#ubuntu-doc 2012-09-20
<Mirv> morning
<Mirv> if anyone wants to take a pre-look at the supposed-to-be beta2 compiz + Unity stack, look at https://launchpad.net/~timo-jyrinki/+archive/uantal-compiz-unity-testing2 (see description, two PPA:s needed)
<Mirv> I suspect some bug fixes today still based on testing
<bkerensa> jbicha: printers nom
<bkerensa> jbicha: if approved can I make the change :D
<bkerensa> jbicha: https://code.launchpad.net/~bkerensa/ubuntu/quantal/system-config-printer/fix-for-1053189
<mdke> knome: yes, I think that you could remove the team  - unless you want to use it for something
<knome> mdke, thanks for the input; we've decided to keep it for now though to make people feel like they're important (not that they weren't)
<knome> ;)
<mdke> fine by me
<knome> meh, what a day. bbl
<mdke> good luck
<jbicha> bkerensa: ok, but the translators have to agree with it
<jbicha> maybe you should email them the branch so they exactly how many strings are changing
<dpm> hi jbicha, around?
<jbicha> dpm: I'm half here :)
<dpm> jbicha, hey :) No worries. It was about what you're already discussing on #ubuntu-desktop right now, so you can ignore my ping
<jbicha> oh ok
<dpm> jbicha, now I do have another question. I know it's not the docs team fault, but I'm trying to buy some more time for translators to do their work in light of the recent changes landed or about to land. Do you think you could help me, even if roughly, to tell translators whether there are any areas they could start safely translating before the new docstringfreeze deadline?
<jbicha> basically, anything Unity-related is not frozen at all, we may also make some tweaks to the accounts pages
<jbicha> there's that one printer change I'm dealing with today, but everything else in ubuntu-docs will be frozen tonight
<jbicha> as far as serverguide goes, they may be just about frozen too
<jbicha> there's https://code.launchpad.net/~evarlast/serverguide/wordpress/+merge/117135
<jbicha> ask pmatulis to verify if they'll be changing anything else in serverguide
<jbicha> oh & I'll probably make the guest session change to ubuntu-docs I discussed on the -doc list but I need to get an update from Gunnar
<jbicha> also if you navigate to ubuntu-help/C in lp:ubuntu-docs you can run the ./check_status.sh script to see that most pages will be frozen tonight
<jbicha> we'll need to ping mdke to see if he'll open up translations tonight or tomorrow
<dpm> jbicha, ok cool, thanks for the detailed explanation
<knome> what is the testing deadline again?
<knome> 12UTC on release day?
#ubuntu-doc 2012-09-21
<obounaim> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/ReleaseProcess#Milestones is outdated
#ubuntu-doc 2012-09-22
<jbicha> bkerensa: hey, are you busy?
<jbicha> oh, never mind
<bkerensa-mobile> Jbicha: pong
<jbicha> bkerensa: never mind
<jbicha> finally writing a What's New page for ubuntu-docs
<bkerensa> jbicha: Maybe unity-shopping-lens.page
<bkerensa> :)
<jbicha> bkerensa: sure, you want to write some content?
<bkerensa> lol
#ubuntu-doc 2012-09-23
<knome> how can we / who can update http://doc.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/ ?
<knome> or is that site used at all any more, and if not, can we remove the old xubuntu docs
<jbicha> knome: that site is obsolete, the current site is https://help.ubuntu.com/ but that is focused on just Ubuntu itself
<knome> jbicha, in that case, can we get the outdated documentation removed?
<knome> should i just contact the IS or is there a contact person for that site?
<jbicha> hmm, I'm not sure where that site is maintained, mdke would know as he's been around for ever :)
<jbicha> the non-wiki part of help.ubuntu.com is maintained at https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-docs/help.ubuntu.com
<jbicha> but that's probably not important to you
<knome> no, not really
<jbicha> you're going to post your help at http://xubuntu.org/help/ ?
<knome> jbicha, we're going to link to the offline docs there
<knome> jbicha, it's possible we'll upload the docs under our domain too, if doc.ubuntu.com is obsolete
<jbicha> are you going to them online there too?
<knome> ^
<jbicha> yeah, doc.ubuntu.com is obsolete, hasn't really been touched since perhaps 2010
<knome> i asked IS if they host doc.ubuntu.com, and if they do, i'll ask them to remove the xubuntu part
<knome> and probably in the same RT, ask them to update our docs under our domain too
<jbicha> ask on the ubuntu-doc list too about it though since 2010 is before my time with docs ;)
<jbicha> oh, IS manages xubuntu.org?
<knome> yes, why wouldn't they?
<knome> i mean, we do of course have access to the wordpress installation, but not the files
<jbicha> Lubuntu might manage their own website, but Xubuntu is older
<knome> there's up and downs with IS managing the site obviously, and i believe they might let us host it on our own too, if we wanted
<knome> at least aiui that's possible
<knome> but let's say the less work, the better ;)
<jbicha> yeah :)
<bkerensa> jbicha: Lubuntu is hosted by canonical too
<bkerensa> so is Kubuntu
<bkerensa> they also own all the domains
<bkerensa> since they have trademarks for them
<jbicha> well that's not what whois lubuntu.net says
<bkerensa> jbicha: ahh and they are hosted at the OSL
<bkerensa> http://www.ubuntu.com/aboutus/trademarkpolicy
<bkerensa> thats why Canonical has not yet trademarked Lubuntu
<bkerensa> Xubuntu on the other hand is trademarked to Canonical
#ubuntu-doc 2013-09-17
<bkerensa> :s
<bkerensa> hi dpm
<dpm> hi bkerensa
<littlegirl> Hey there, bkerensa, can you give a bit more detail about https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2013-September/017776.html as far as when to do it? I'm assuming you do it after a bzr commit and before a bzr push, but would rather know for sure than get it wrong. (:
<pleia2> littlegirl: it's before the commit, since the changelog is an edited file that you commit too
<pleia2> the 'dch' command just does some magic against the text-based changelog file to add your name, email, time+date automagically
<littlegirl> pleia2: Oh, thank you! I love understanding how things work and when to do them. (:
<littlegirl> pleia2: So it doesn't ask for anything (like a comment that you have to be ready to input)?
<pleia2> littlegirl: running "dch" should open up a changelog file that you edit
<littlegirl> pleia2: Oh, okay. Do I need to add anything, or will it add it for me (the automagically part you mentioned above)?
<pleia2> littlegirl: to the changelog, just add your changes, you can browse the changelog for examples
<littlegirl> pleia2: Okay, that sounds good. Thanks! I like making myself a step by step reference to use for what has to happen from start to finish when I make any changes to anything huge, like somebody else's project. (:
<pleia2> littlegirl: that sounds great :)
 * littlegirl has been known to make the occasional mistake when committing or pushing, so better safe than sorry. (:
<pleia2> thanks for pushing through and asking questions, our docs docs is such a mess and the folks who know what's going on have a hard time seeing what isn't documented
<belkinsa> Would this idea work for wiki pages or is that the comment text book when you save changes to a wiki page?
<pleia2> belkinsa: wiki pages and the docbook docs are quite different
<pleia2> so not really :\
<belkinsa> pliea2: Oh, I see.
<littlegirl> pleia2: Any time. I'm big on making documentation as detailed and simple (a conundrum, I know) as possible. The Documentation Teams both have waaay too much documentation and it's all over the place. (:
<pleia2> littlegirl: indeed!
<belkinsa> pleia2: I guess that's what comments are for in the wiki pages.
<pleia2> belkinsa: heh, everyone uses them for different things :)
<littlegirl> belkinsa: No, I was talking about your https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2013-September/017776.html message in the mailing list, which I assume is for those of us who are pushing changes to lp:ubuntu-docs.
<pleia2> belkinsa: in theory, I think we should use them like a changelog/commit message to say what you're changing
<belkinsa> littlegril: I see and sorry for butting in.
<pleia2> belkinsa: not butting in at all :) it was a good question
<littlegirl> belkinsa: No, that's great that you did. I just needed to know when to do your command and what it would do. (:
<belkinsa> Right, thanks.
<littlegirl> belkinsa: You were the first one to ever mention that it even needed to be done, so it was a good thing you noticed it and mentioned it. (:
<belkinsa> :blushes
 * littlegirl has had a rather haphazard entry into Kubuntu/Ubuntu without ever getting a proper mentor. (:
<littlegirl> I've just kind of latched onto any of you who would answer my questions and gone from there. (:
<belkinsa> Good thing that I spoke up.
<littlegirl> belkinsa: Yes! How hard was it for you to clean up all of our pushes?
<littlegirl> I think there's been rather a lot of activity recently. (:
<belkinsa> littlegirl: What pushes?
<littlegirl> belkinsa: All of our recent pushes to lp:ubuntu-docs. A few of us had been committing, and I know at least I was guilty of not doing that dch command.
<belkinsa> Oh, on the wiki?  Yeah, but there were minor changes, mainly to fix some of the outdated-ness.
<littlegirl> No, not the wiki. the Ubuntu documentation. Oh! Is the dch command only for the wiki? Or do I need to do it if I'm editing the stuff in /ubuntu-docs/ubuntu-help/C/ ?
<pleia2> littlegirl: no no, dch is only for docbook docs, not the wiki
<littlegirl> I haven't been doing any wiki commits (I didn't even know I could). (:
<pleia2> belkinsa is working on wiki; littlegirl is working on docbook docs
<belkinsa> That's correct.  I'm the wiki person.
<littlegirl> pleia2: Oh! LOL! Then I don't need to do it, or I do?
<pleia2> littlegirl: as I said, everyone does things differently :)
<littlegirl> LOL
<belkinsa> ;)
<pleia2> in theory we probably should leave a note in the Comment: box when we make a change on the wiki, but I am lazy too and don't often do it
<belkinsa> I only do it when it's needed.
<belkinsa> to explain the changes.
<pleia2> (I'm actually at a work sprint now, should pay attention)
<littlegirl> I have a request for either or both of you, or anyone else who can do this. I found some validation errors in the docbook docs and fixed all but one. I can't, for the life of me, figure out how. Can you guys take a look at it?
<littlegirl> Okay, sorry about that!
<littlegirl> belkinsa: I try to put comments on everything, but once in a while I forget. (:
<belkinsa> Maybe we need some standard produce for changelogs/comments for the wiki when it's major change and make it required by code.  Or would that be too much for us?
<littlegirl> It might alienate newbies. I suppose you could get it to do a quick pop-up that says, "Did you remember to leave a comment letting us know what you changed?" or something like that. But even that might turn people away.
<belkinsa> True, true.  I guess the current way works fine.
<belkinsa> Research in Biotechnology is a place where a researcher needs to explain why they changed something in their lab note books.  That's where the idea for doing that on the wiki came from.
<littlegirl> I see. (:
<belkinsa> littlegirl: I saw your reply.  Is the reason why I don't need to give your credit?  Is it because you just compiled the various things into one list?
<littlegirl> belkinsa: It's more that it's just a list. You can give me credit, but it's not like it's a published book or anything, so anyone could have made it. (:
<littlegirl> belkinsa: By the way, you've got a reply to your dch thing in the mailing list. I'm going to wait until you two duke it out before deciding whether I'll do the dch or not. (:
<belkinsa> Um, that wasn't me.
<littlegirl> Oh, I am an idiot. Never mind. (:
<belkinsa> It's okay.
<belkinsa> Some of us have very close usernames here.
<belkinsa> nicks*
<littlegirl> Yeah, and I got you confused with bkerensa. (:
<belkinsa> I'm already used to that, has happened to me in another channel.
<belkinsa> Maybe I should be using Barsook instead, which is my other username I use.
<littlegirl> Anything is fine. All of us will eventually learn it whichever way you go. (:
<belkinsa> Yup.
<belkinsa> Also, I guess my e-mail address doesn't match my nick name.
<belkinsa> But that will change soon.
<littlegirl> It doesn't have to. (:
<belkinsa> I know
<quantumpants> hi guys
<quantumpants> i need help7
#ubuntu-doc 2013-09-18
<julianofischer> hi, what is going on with spreadubuntu?
#ubuntu-doc 2013-09-19
<belkinsa> phillw: Did that last reply to your last e-mail come to you or the list?
<phillw> belkinsa: I've got quite a few emails flying around... by the minute... can you let me know the subject? thanks.
<belkinsa> phillw: Re: Suggestion (Re to Jonathan Aquilina) and this was your reply time: On 09/18/2013 08:32 PM, Phill Whiteside
<phillw> belkinsa: I'll have to look up the delay bit again. Been a long time since I've used it and bypassed it :) One of things people are asking for is also going to be a really good look-up section of lesser used commands.
<belkinsa> So, i guess you didn't see the reply that I sent you.
<belkinsa> Noting private here.
<belkinsa> I figured you were going too, but I wanted to see a small preview in
<belkinsa> case I need to do it for a wiki page edit.
<belkinsa> That's what I said.
<phillw> that was my reply in the email.
<belkinsa> No, what a posted was mine to that e-mail, that the mailing list seems to not have posted yet.
<eagles0513875_> hey guys
<eagles0513875_> is this where one can come and discuss even wiki documentation?
<eagles0513875_> hey bkerensa  :)
<bkerensa> eagles0513875_: I guess so but the channel is very quiet and not many contribute to wiki doc
<eagles0513875_> bkerensa: hopefully we can change that
<bkerensa> indeed
<eagles0513875_> im goign to be working on the nvidia stuff as phil had posted on the forums bout it :)
 * bkerensa goes away for epic bbq lunch
<eagles0513875_> have to get through this monday deadline first
<eagles0513875_> bkerensa: enjoy :)
<phillw> eagles0513875_: welcome! feel free to ping me anytime.
<eagles0513875_> hey phillw  :)
<eagles0513875_> was wondering when you would shw up
<eagles0513875_> btw this is thjonathna
<eagles0513875_> wow i cant type
<eagles0513875_> Jonathan*
<phillw> He he, I was just replying to an email. I guessed it was you when you said about nvidia :)
<eagles0513875_> yes it was phillw
<eagles0513875_> phillw: you mentioned a channel for nvidia?
<eagles0513875_> i think that would fall under ubuntu-xorg
<eagles0513875_> i am not sure
<phillw> eagles0513875_: I only half notice links for hardware I do not have.
<eagles0513875_> lol
<eagles0513875_> wait
<eagles0513875_> wrong channel
<eagles0513875_> hold on
<phillw> eagles0513875_: #nvidia :D  obvious, really !
<eagles0513875_> no
<eagles0513875_> ubuntu specific one
<eagles0513875_> i think there was ubuntu-edgers or xorg for graphics in general
<phillw> I do recall one being mentioned... let me go ask.
<eagles0513875_> phillw: ask in ubuntu-xorg
<phillw> no such channel
<phillw> eagles0513875_: just plain #xorg exists, they may be able to direct you?
<phillw> But, it is not something that needs doing immediately. Get your RL deadline out of the way 1st :)
<eagles0513875_> i have work out my ears not just this deadline.
<phillw> then take your time, if you cannot make time then do not stress! I can go ask the testers... one of them *must* have an nvidia card :)
<eagles0513875_> phillw: go ahead and ask others but you know i have the hardware if you dont manage
<phillw> will do, thanks for the offer.
<eagles0513875_> no problem :)
<eagles0513875_> hey Darkwing
<eagles0513875_> phillw: you still sturring up trouble this late at night
<phillw> it's still quite early for me... only approaching 11pm here :)
<belkinsa> I think we need to split some topics apart and title them on the mailing-list...but it doesn't really matter, right?
<phillw> I have a VM to set up tonight.
<phillw> belkinsa: that the mailing list has gone 'mad' with ideas is, to me, fantastic! People are popping up suggestions, new people are arriving... It is every teams dream come true! We *need* more people, they are asking to be skilled up to help with the workload. It would be a fatal mistake for us not to spend time ensuring that they are provided with these skills and also ensure that in doing so we have such 2training"
<eagles0513875_> phillw: are you in the uk
<phillw> "training" notes available to other newcomers
<eagles0513875_> belkinsa: i think for both teams
<phillw> eagles0513875_: yup.
<eagles0513875_> i mentioned this in an email
<eagles0513875_> documentation sprints so to speak like they do bug fixing and traging sprints same should apply to documentatio n
<belkinsa> I agree with you, Phillw.
<eagles0513875_> phillw: if you are going to do presentations etc for new comers use something like libreoffice
<phillw> wiki / docs and manual all feed from one thing... people wanting to put into writing that which will help others.
<eagles0513875_> phillw: in a way that is what I am doign on my website putting together simplified how to's
<eagles0513875_> sometimes i find the documentation both wiki and official docs too long winded
<eagles0513875_> and not too the point
<phillw> eagles0513875_: there is a dedicated system for holding classrooms. I'm a veteran of them :)
<eagles0513875_> ok :)
<eagles0513875_> well my site atm is offline undergoing a revamp
<eagles0513875_> other wise i will show you
<belkinsa> Aye, I know about them via Ubuntu Women team.
<belkinsa> Them= classrooms
<eagles0513875_> for instance i have an ssh how to a kernel compilation how to
<phillw> eagles0513875_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom/Saucy
<eagles0513875_> some how to's on git
<eagles0513875_> and a tutorial on how to harden ssh.
<phillw> was when I was fully immersed in all of QA, it got too much and I've rolled right back on my duties.
<eagles0513875_> i need to start getting down to mine and focus and get things off my to do list
<phillw> just as an aside, as this channel is fully logged; if anyone wants to chat off-topic, or just chat, ##phillw is the channel I have. Several team members from across areas do pop in for a chat.
<belkinsa> Thanks for the heads up.
<eagles0513875_> phillw: its empty btw
<phillw> eagles0513875_: it is 2 X # ... ##phillw :D
<eagles0513875_> oops
<belkinsa> It's clickable if you have X-chat.
<eagles0513875_> its late here after midnight and ill be here till 3am
<eagles0513875_> im in web chat
<belkinsa> Wow, I think we broke the mail-list number of messages in one month record.
<eagles0513875_> haha
<phillw> quite possibly, but it is good to see things being discussed. This all bodes well for one of the biggest challenges that crops up every two years.... LTS
#ubuntu-doc 2013-09-20
<godbyk> bkerensa: Can you tell if Doug fixed the translation issue you were talking about?
#ubuntu-doc 2014-09-15
<ahoneybun> hello all
<ahoneybun> are you on pleia2 ?
<pleia2> ahoneybun: am now :)
<ahoneybun> pleia2: thanks for the Newsletter I'm grabing the code for the docs
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> let me know if you have any questions, I can try to help
<pleia2> (others in here can too)
<ahoneybun> pleia2: yep will do I'll look for typos and what not
<pleia2> thansk!
<pleia2> thanks too
<ahoneybun> I'm set up on lp and ssh so I can upload changes for review
#ubuntu-doc 2014-09-16
 * ahoneybun trys to find typos in the docs and fails so far
<ahoneybun> is there no mascot icon for 14.10 yet?
<dsmythies> ahoneybun: the mascot icon is typically very very late in the cycle. I.E. not yet. Myself, I think it could be, and should be, much earlier in the cycle.
<dsmythies> The same is true for changes that will require new screenshots.
<ahoneybun> dsmythies: I'm not on utopic so I cannot take ss yet
<ahoneybun> but I were needed to I would
<ahoneybun> what is a letterhead?
<dsmythies> ahoneybun: Typically corporate stationary for letters is pre-printed with the compnay logo, address, phone number, website URL, ... That is called letterhead.
<dsmythies> ahoneybun: In the context of the the desktop docs I think they are talking about a template whereby the "letterhead" portion would be printed automatically and as a starting point, with the actual letter content added by the user.
<dsmythies> ahoneybun: my point with SS comment was that is not yet time anyhow.
<ahoneybun> dsmythies: just was wondering since the docs do not talk about it but I think now it might not matter
#ubuntu-doc 2014-09-17
<ahoneybun> hey Darkwing
#ubuntu-doc 2014-09-19
<ahoneybun> hey pleia2
<pleia2> hey ahoneybun
<ahoneybun> I submitted a webapp :)
<pleia2> cool
<ahoneybun> yep pleia2 https://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com/dev/click-apps/1082/
#ubuntu-doc 2014-09-20
<ahoneybun> pleia2: I could not find errors so far on the docs
<pleia2> great, we had doc freeze yesterday so it's all done for the cycle
<ahoneybun> cool
#ubuntu-doc 2014-09-21
<bluesabre> documentation team, xubuntu is a bit behind schedule with our documentation upload... would it be acceptable to go ahead and upload this weekend... or should I take this discussion to the mailing list?
#ubuntu-doc 2015-09-17
<pmatulis> morning
#ubuntu-doc 2015-09-18
<willcooke> Hi doc team.  I have received the new default desktop wallpaper from Design
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-wallpapers/+bug/1497177
<willcooke> I think I might need to get an exception from you in order to upload it.  Can you tell me how I do that?
<willcooke> rather, how I request that
