#ubuntu-us-ca 2010-11-22
<jdeslip> Howdy all
<faina> hello
<jdeslip> I'm glad this week is a short one :)
<faina> :)
<faina> I keep forgetting.
<jdeslip> faina: then it will be a nice surprise when you remember
<faina> hehe
<faina> so weird writing python code in a proportional font...
<nuboon2age_> i can't understand why the agenda didn't have the discussion of blocking indexing of our irc log.  somehow it didn't get discussed last time either.  so i just added it.
<jdeslip> nuboon2age_: I think we were expecting you to add it :)
<jdeslip> grantbow: do you use irc on your G1?  I can't find any client that works with T-Mobile.  It seems freenode requires sasl from T-Mobile because of spam or something.
<nuboon2age_> okay, but since there have been *so many* people asking for it, why not just add it?  i don't get it.
<Eureka> wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/10November21 edited
<faina> I was able to log into IRC over T-mobile... though I was using a n900 and turned on SSL
<faina> wait... no I'm logged into my home network.
<Eureka> wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/10November21 edited
<jdeslip> faina: when I try with ssl, I get an ssl handshake error :(
<faina> Once I switched to t-mobile it wasn't working for me either.
<faina> I wonder if t-mobile is blocking the ports... I've heard that a lot of botnets use IRC for command and control
<faina> (from my works network security team)
<faina> is there any vpn software for the G1?
<jdeslip> From my Googling of the issue - it seems freenode actually block T-Mobile (or requires SASL) because of spamming or something
<jdeslip> faina; probably
<jdeslip> nuboon2age: Would you mind if I changed the indexing item to the end of the meeting - it is likely to have the most discussion
<jdeslip> I am hoping we will get through the other three items in relatively quick succession
<nuboon2age_> jdeslip: i don't mind as long as we get to it
<Eureka> wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/10November21 edited
<faina> I need to go ... good luck with your meeting.
<nuboon2age_>  checking settings...
<nuboon2age_> again
<pleia2> evening everyone
<jdeslip> evening pleia2
<jledbetter> howdy
<pleia2> nuboon2age_: regarding agenda items - the person who adds them is the one who leads the discussion at the meeting, which is why we request the person who wants it be the one who adds it
<pleia2> so we can keep track of who added what and who should be leading discussion on each agenda item
<pleia2> anyway, meeting time :)
<pleia2> agenda is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/10November21
<pleia2> who all is here for the meeting?
<nuboon2age_> pleia2: gotcha
<jledbetter> o/
 * dragon raises his hand
<jtatum> \o
<jdeslip> HERE
<akk> o/
<nuboon2age_> o/
<philipballew> here
<pleia2> ok, let's start off with any announcements of upcoming events
<pleia2> http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-california just shows a couple ubuntu hours in lake forest
<pleia2> presumably we'll be adding the regularly occurring ones for december, observing holidays, as the weeks go on
<pleia2> anything else announcement-wise?
<nuboon2age_> i've talked to people about doing something like an Ubuntu hour in Santa Cruz but haven't settled on a time/place yet
<MarkDude> Penguin Hour
<nuboon2age_> or Lindependence Hour or something like that
<jdeslip> nuboon2age: involving Larry/
<jdeslip> ?
<nuboon2age_> talked to Karsten, lcafiero in particular
<pleia2> great, so you'll update the resources with announcements once you have the details nailed down
<nuboon2age_> i've also been seeking a location in Palo Alto or Menlo Park, but haven't settled on a location yet
<nuboon2age_> yes'm pleia2
<pleia2> ok, we can probably discuss ubuntu hours further during that portion of the agenda :)
<pleia2> Agenda item 1: Discuss hosting for Ubuntu California Website: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/Website
<pleia2> I posted to the list earlier this week and unfortunately there wasn't any discussion aside from jtatum's reply (thanks jtatum!)
<jdeslip> If I remember last meeting, we were going to vote on hosting options this meeting.  Do we want to put that off for further discussion?
<nuboon2age_> on Dec 4th there's a peace Fair/holiday fair in San Jose where i'll be with Cameron S, repping for FLOSS
<akk> I thought jtatum's comments made sense and didn't have anything useful to add.
<jdeslip> It seems to me it basically comes down to a choice between pleia2's linode option and aaditya's appengine option.  Is taht fair?
<jtatum> jdeslip, i don't think we have to decide.. can do both
<pleia2> jdeslip: yeah
<pleia2> I spoke with jtatum briefly at the mt view ubuntu hour and we thought it might be acceptable to go with the linode for the basic site and then if we wanted to build some spiffy applications or other dynamic content (aside from planet and blog) we can go with appengine
<akk> It's confusing to have multiple sites, though ... we already sort of have that confusion.
<dragon> jtatum: what'd be the setup if we do both?
<akk> Though yeah, using another site for fancy appengine stuff would be okay, just don't have multiple user-visible landing pages.
<jtatum> main site links to app engine appsâ¦ i think that's the general setup of appengine
<eps> It looks like my suggestion to look at SFCCP fell through the cracks.
<pleia2> essentially the ubuntu-california.org site will be a landing page for all resources (wiki, forums, mailing list, etc)
<dragon> jtatum: that way we'd end up having two websites, unless we do iframes.
<pleia2> eps: we asked you to email us the details so we could add it to the wiki, you never did :(
<jledbetter> ohnoiframes
<eps> I'm totally swamped and I can't edit the Wiki directly.
<pleia2> there were a couple ideas that people didn't follow up with
<jtatum> dragon, a lot of sites link to subdomains that you don't think of as two sitesâ¦ :) ebay, yahoo, amazonâ¦ et
<jtatum> c
<pleia2> eps: unfortunately we need *someone* to get the details for us so we can review it, I don't know anything about this proposal
<dragon> jtatum: they do, but we'll have to make sure they share the same look-and-feel.
<jtatum> keep the header and footer the same and nobody will think they're different sites
<eps> SFCCP - www.sfccp.net - you can read about it on their web site.
<eps> There are a number of advantages: (1) you can do pretty much anything you want in terms of software
<dragon> jtatum: in that case, why would we even need it in two places?
<pleia2> eps: it's not just simple hosting details we need, we need to know who is handling the relationship, administrative options, hardware, etc
<eps> (2) you can have as many or as few administrators as you feel appropriate
<pleia2> eps: can you reply to the mailing list thread?
<jtatum> dragon: just saying we don't have to scrap appengine just because the main domain is hosted somewhere else
<eps> (3) you'd be hosting Ubuntu *California* in *California*, not some embarrassing out-of-the-way place
<jtatum> eps: linode is in california
<jdeslip> so, it appears we are not ready for a vote, eh?
<dragon> jtatum: sounds reasonable
<eps> pleia2: no, I'm replying here, where the conversation is logged, and everyone gets to see it
<pleia2> jdeslip: apparently not :(
 * pleia2 sighs
<jtatum> surprised at all this discussion when *nobody* replied on the mailing list.
<dragon> eps: I'm unable to follow your proposal.
<jtatum> s/surprised/disappointed/.
<pleia2> jtatum: +1
<jledbetter> oh no he didn't
<jdeslip> pleia2: how about we start a mailing list thread asking for specific (and detailed recommendations) which we can compile into another voting thread.
<MarkDude> eps does have a point
<eps> I've previously explained my problem with the mailing list
<MarkDude> Is that not one of the intents of logging?
<jdeslip> i.e. the only responses to the thread should be complete proposals
<MarkDude> So others can see it?
<akk> Anyone can see replies on the mailing list.
<jdeslip> akk: agreed
<pleia2> MarkDude: we've always logged meetings
<eps> Well, if you've already made your decision, and you're just recruiting people to ratify it, we can do that.
<nuboon2age_> btw, here's the announcement for the Peace Fair where Cameron Spitzer and i'l be repping for FLOSS on Dec 4th,  http://www.sanjosepeace.org/article.php/20101108154316816
<akk> That's a far more public way, because everyone can participate, not just people who are awake and logged in right now.
<jdeslip> eps: No decision has been made - I quite frankly don't know what I'd vote for.
<pleia2> eps: I appreciate your option, but we've been discussing this for months, 2 weeks ago we decided to get final proposals on the wiki, you made no effort since then to get us the details (not on irc, mailing list or wiki)
<pleia2> we need to move forward at soem point
<eps> The way I see it, there's no clear choice. Every option has advantages and disadvantages.
<pleia2> until now, when we all thought our options were settled :(
<eps> Then get the Wiki fixed. There's been a bug filed against moinmoin for longer than that.
<pleia2> you could have emailed me (as I requested at the last meeting), or discussed it here
<dragon> As far as I understand, we need to collect all the proposals on the wiki, not the mailing list. Why is mailing list in question at this point?
<jdeslip> pleia2: eps: agreed we need to move forward.  I think taking complete/final proposals in a mailing list thread and then voting on them by December 4th would be a good way forward.
<eps> I *am* discussing it here.
<pleia2> eps: now, after we closed the time for propsals a week ago
<pleia2> dragon: we're trying to get feedback from folks on the mailing list too
<eps> I've brought this up before; the logs will back me up. I'm not springing anything on you at the last minute.
<nuboon2age_> i have to say that *does* look like a good proposal. as are the others
<pleia2> jdeslip: ok, so I'll send a pretty much identical post to the list as my one last week, with eps' additional option?
<pleia2> eps' proposal is a colo, so we also need hardware details
<jdeslip> eps: discussing it on this channel does not constitute have submited a proposal
<dragon> pleia2: yes, but that's not required as long as the proposal is documented in one place and is easy enough to refer to and follow, correct?
<pleia2> and who is donating it
<eps> The main downside with my proposal is non-zero cost. If there's something you can get for free, you don't have to think about how you're going to pay for it.
<jdeslip> pleia2: I think a similar email with the final/complete proposals from the wiki page would be good.  Making it clear that we are now seeking a vote.
<pleia2> eps: think can you get that info this week?
<eps> I have *zero* time to devote this week.
<pleia2> jdeslip: ok
<jdeslip> (as oppossed to further discussion)
<pleia2> eps: how long do we need to wait for your full proposal?
 * MarkDude is aware that logging has always happened for meetings. 
<pleia2> I don't mind waiting another week, but I'd really like to move forward on this soon
<pleia2> as the plan was to decide tonight
<jledbetter> pleia2, +1
<eps> All I can do right now is make you aware this option exists. Everything you need to know is already online. You may need to solicit a hardware donation, which I can't coordinate.
<pleia2> ok, well for each proposal we need someone who can take ownership of coordinating it
<eps> Anyone can follow up on this.
<jdeslip> eps: unfortunately that isn't really good enough :/  - if you (or anyone else) wants an option considered, you have to champion it
<jledbetter> pleia2, And if someone can't then maybe that means we can vote tonight?
<akk> If we're not going to have another proposal, does that mean we can vote tonight?
 * akk high-fives jledbetter 
<jledbetter> boo yeah ;)
<pleia2> +1
<MarkDude> +1
<jdeslip> I think a decision tonight would be fine, considering that nobody (except jtatum) had anything to add on the previous mailing list thread
<pleia2> regarding using linode AND appengine - it would be similar to ubuntu-california.org planet.ubuntu-california.org gallery.ubuntu-california.org ... or for a live example, see: ubuntupennsylvania.org
<dragon> I vote +1 for voting tonight if we don't have any more proposals to follow.
<eps> I think you need to decide what your requirements really are before attempting to evaluate solutions. Otherwise, you're going to get stuck trying to pound a square peg into a round hole.
<pleia2> I figure whatever appengine site we create it would be reallyneatthing.ubuntu-california.org
<dragon> pleia2: such as www.ubuntu-california.org
<jtatum> we can come up with a billion reasons to torpedo this OR we can do this NOW and get something online. i vote linode
<pleia2> we already have california.ubuntuforums.org wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-california.. etc
<dragon> s/$/?/
<jdeslip> eps: I take it you do not have plans to submit a complete/final proposal this week?  If not let's vote
<pleia2> dragon: I think we need ubuntu-california.org and www.ubuntu-california.org to be the same site
<jdeslip> I see three options being championed at this point with complete info on the wiki:
<dragon> pleia2: agreed
<nuboon2age_> i'd be okay with the idea of using linode for basic stuff and appengine for spiffy stuff
<jdeslip> 1> 1. linode
<jdeslip> 2. app-engine
<jdeslip> 3. the linode-app-engine mix
<pleia2> we should put canonical in the voting pot
<jdeslip> 4. canonical
<nuboon2age_> pleia2: +1
<MarkDude> I wont be able to vote for the nogo on logging indexing for this channel- I need to run an errand. Please include my vote, I dont like the indexing :)
<akk> Clarification: if we vote for linode that somehow precludes ever mixing in app-engine?
<akk> I'm not sure what the difference is between 1 and 3.
<pleia2> akk: no
<nuboon2age_> ty MarkDude, i caught that.
 * MarkDude might be aback in time :)
<MarkDude> Resistance is not futile :D
<pleia2> akk: I think voting 3 means from the get-go we consider app-engine in every decision as far as our applications
<pleia2> so if we want a blog, we look at wordpress on linode and appengine options
<pleia2> I'd really like an option other than gallery2 for photos, if appengine could do something cool with photos I'd love it
<eps> I'm confused about something: the description of Option 3 says "free application hosting" while the Google App Engine site says $8-$1000/mo.
<MarkDude> app engine +1. We are geeks, lets just not go for the simplest idea to implement
<pleia2> eps: the 8-1000 is business hosting, we're using the free options
<akk> Whereas if we vote for 1, we look at what runs on wordpress unless someone comes forward and says "Hey, there's this great appengine solution that you should consider too"?
<akk> s/runs on wordpress/runs on linode/
<pleia2> akk: yeah, I guess
<dragon> I vote for 2. AppEngine
<pleia2> we will do a formal vote in a few minutes
<pleia2> MarkDude: we're not all geeks, that's part of the great thing about the ubuntu community :) and we use ubuntu, so shouldn't we host on a server that runs ubuntu?
<dragon> pleia2: AppEngine runs on Ubuntu ;)
<pleia2> ah, I didn't realize they released details like that
<MarkDude> Well lets have an AOL style site then :)
<MarkDude> Im just saying shiny is good for this particualr instance
<pleia2> akk: is that slightly more clear?
<jdeslip> Ok again:
<jdeslip> 1. Linode - emphasis on wordpress / gallery2 apps
<dragon> pleia2: they normally don't, but one of the officials ended up talking about it in a public meeting.
<jdeslip> 2. Appengine hosting and apps
<MarkDude> From what has been outlined the content wot be a blog, so eyecandy to attract people- like compiz is good
<jdeslip> 3. Linode - but emphasis on appengine apps
<jdeslip> 4. Canonoical
<MarkDude> writing in fire is not useful, but it attracts people nonetheless :)
<dragon> pleia2: I'd also like to propose the use of voting bot in this loco. I've seen it in action in other Ubuntu channels, though I'm unaware about its downsides.
<pleia2> MarkDude: thanks, can you add design ideas at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/Website/Design so we can keep track of your ideas?
<pleia2> dragon: we can request mootbot be added here for meetings (I tend to like it)
<pleia2> it does voting, as well as basic meeting minutes
<dragon> +1 for having mootbot in -us-ca
<nuboon2age_> +1
<pleia2> any objections to moving forward with voting on hosting?
<jdeslip> nope - lets do it
<nuboon2age_> none here
 * dragon grabs the buzzer and prepares to vote
<jdeslip> I'm tallying
<pleia2> ok
<pleia2> 1. Linode - emphasis on wordpress / gallery2 apps
<pleia2> +1
<jtatum> +1
<akk> +1
<pleia2> (if you miss the option because you weren't paying attention, it's ok, you can nudge jdeslip to add you to whatever option)
<dragon> sorry for the interruption, but wouldn't it be easier to let people type 1, 2, 3, or 4 instead of doing +1 to each option? Or are we allowing voting for more than one option?
<nuboon2age_> if i could vote twice i'd vote for both #1 and #2 (and am fine with #3 also)
<pleia2> dragon: I'd say we can vote for more than one option
<pleia2> 2. Appengine hosting and apps
<eps> +1
<dragon> nuboon2age, isn't 3 a mix of 1 and 2? ;)
<nuboon2age_> yes dragon. :-)
<nuboon2age_> so mine would be +1 to #1 and +1 to #2
<pleia2> dragon: fwiw, voting with mootbot is done the way I'm doing it, so getting people used to this method is probably good :)
<dragon> ah gotcha
<jdeslip> (so yes, you can vote twice)
<pleia2> can everyone vote with +1 to make it easy for jdeslip to count? anymore for for option 2?
<jdeslip> so far we have 1 with 4 votes and 2 with 2 votes
<dragon> +1
<pleia2> 3. Linode - but emphasis on appengine apps
<jdeslip> (and again you can vote more than once - so if you voted for 2, you may consider voting here again)
<jdeslip> +1
<nuboon2age_> +1
<pleia2> +1
<dragon> +0.8
<jdeslip> LOL
<jtatum> +1
<pleia2> 4. Canonoical
<pleia2> -1
<pleia2> hehe
<pleia2> (sorry, I host some stuff there already and it's painful)
<akk> -1
<dragon> I didn't realize we could do -1 as well.
<pleia2> dragon: well, not really
<dragon> so it's technically +0
 * eps will happily -1 #1
<jdeslip> (I am not counting negative votes)
<pleia2> dragon: yeah
<dragon> eps: or +1 everything else
<eps> dragon: nope
<pleia2> #endvote
<jdeslip> So, I counted 4 votes for #1, 3 votes for #2 and 4.8 votes for #3
<pleia2> ok jdeslip, what's the verdict?
<pleia2> ok, cool
<dragon> One moment, please.
<dragon> MarkDude said he wanted to vote for AppEngine, but then he left.
<pleia2> ok, so 4, 4, 4.8
<jdeslip> Either way, I think that leaves us #3 winning
<nuboon2age_> looks that way.  where's the .8 from btw jdeslip?
<dragon> can I take my 0.8 back? ;)
<pleia2> Agenda item 2: Next steps for the California site
<pleia2> I think we need to put a team together to work on this
<dragon> Just kidding. Since it's a tie breaker, I'm fine with #3.
<pleia2> since dragon and I put forward proposals, I think we're both shoe-ins
<dragon> \o/
<jdeslip> dragon: Thank you.
<jdeslip> pleia2: agreed
<pleia2> the team will need to sort out administrative access and discuss decisions to present to the team
<eps> The next step is to take our logo, place a hard hat on the bear, and caption it "Under Construction"
<jtatum> i would like to join the team.
<jdeslip> Let's have pleia2 set something basic up on linode and then take app ideas requests and see how the can solved in app-engine
<jledbetter> eps, Joke, right?
<pleia2> eps, jdeslip +1 (although, under construction is a bit 1998 :))
<eps> jledbetter: Of course. "That's so 90's."
<jledbetter> whew
<pleia2> I'll toss something basic up that we can review
<pleia2> we also need to decide which domain to use
<jledbetter> I second jtatum's nomination
<akk> All sites are always under construction. That should be a given.
<nuboon2age_> eps: btw, ty for bringing up the other possibility, now that you've made me aware of it i may take advantage of it for other things.
<jdeslip> I.e. once the basic structure is in place, the interested folks can get together and see what apps (app-engine and elsewise) will solve the job best
<pleia2> jtatum: welcome to the team :)
<pleia2> jdeslip: sounds good
<jdeslip> shall we move on.  I posted agenda item 3, but would like to defer it in order to save time.
<pleia2> thanks jdeslip
<pleia2> should we talk about the domain name at all?
<nuboon2age_> jdeslip: which one is #3?
<jdeslip> I will talk to pleia2, nuboon2age privately to learn about planning a good Ubuntu Hour
<pleia2> our options: ubuntu-us-ca.org ubuntu-california.org ubuntucalifornia.org
<pleia2> -us-ca is a bit unusual, but teams throughout the country are kinda split on dash or no dash
<pleia2> ubuntu-florida.org, ubuntupennsylvania.org
<jdeslip> nuboon2age: it is the Ubuntu-Hour one.  I wanted to learn more about planning one in the East Bay, but I'll chat with you privately about that.
<nuboon2age_> oh, even if we put it later i think #3 is valuable jdeslip
<dragon> Once we have a design in place, I can attempt to replicate it on AppEngine and create a code repository for it. Any objections keeping it FOSS?
<eps> I like ubuntu-california.org with the others redirecting appropriately.
<pleia2> eps: me too
<jdeslip> pleia2: can't we use all of them?
<pleia2> jdeslip: we need an official one to stick on posters and make sure never expires
<jdeslip> eps: +1
<pleia2> erichammond also regged net/com for each (grantbow did -us-ca.org)
<jdeslip> pleia2: then I personally prefer ubuntu-california
<akk> ubuntu-california.org looks prettier as long as we also have ubuntucalifornia.org redirecting.
<akk> (non-geeks sometimes get confused by hyphens in urls)
<jdeslip> akk: +1
<pleia2> yeah, currently all the domains redirect to our wiki
<nuboon2age_> ubuntu-california.org looks good to me
<jledbetter> akk +1
<pleia2> ok, sounds like we go with ubuntu-california.org with everything redirecting to it
<jdeslip> Any desenters?
<eps> The closes we can come to "never" is a ten-year registration. This should be less expensive than annual renewal.
<dragon> we're talking "ubuntu dash california dot org" vs "ubuntu california dot org". I vote for former being used and latter being redirected to former.
<dragon> pleia2: +1
<eps> s/closes/closest
<jledbetter> hyphens in urls? icky
<jdeslip> It seems unanimous
<pleia2> eps: I meant that we're diligent about keeping it renewed, not a 100 year renewal :)
<philipballew> people could easily get confused with a hyphen
<pleia2> yeah, so if they type in ubuntucalifornia.org it'll work too
<pleia2> but we'll put the one with the dash in our stuff so it's easy to read
<pleia2> I'll follow-up with erichammond regarding DNS and get the basics rolling on the linode
<jdeslip> great
<pleia2> ok, skipping jdeslip's agenda item
<jledbetter> doesn't hurt to forward and analytics can be set up to handle it as one
<pleia2> Agenda item 4: Discuss blocking of indexing of irc log
<dragon> I've registered ubuntu-california.appspot.com. Adding pleia2 and jdeslip as admins/owners now.
<pleia2> thanks dragon
<jdeslip> sounds good dragon
<nuboon2age_> okay, so it's my sense that many have spoken out in favor of blocking indexing and no one really strongly against, so i'm just wondering how far along we are with it and when we'll get it done?
<pleia2> nuboon2age_: I think we need someone to take this to the irc-council
<jledbetter> I thought we just needed to get robots.txt updated
<eps> Is there any precedent for this?
<pleia2> unfortunately we don't control indexing on irclogs.ubuntu.com directly
<pleia2> eps: nope
<jdeslip> So to summarize this issue: the LoCo council has instigated the logging and the mechanism.  This is NOT something either our team or the leadership can vote on.
<pleia2> currently everything on irclogs.ubuntu.com is available for indexing, a team has never requested that it not
<nuboon2age_> has anyone brought this up with the irc-council yet?
<pleia2> nuboon2age_: not that I'm aware of
<jdeslip> nuboon2age_: not in any official way at least
<pleia2> I know they discussed the indexing issue at UDS and are keen to have options, but I don't know where it landed or who is involved with the discussion
<nuboon2age_> personally i'm not against logging, just against indexing
<pleia2> nuboon2age_: would you be willing to take up the teams concerns with the ircc ?
<akk> It would be good to find out whether there will ever be any chance of public discussion.
<eps> No matter what you do, someone is going to republish excerpts out-of-context.
<nuboon2age_> pleia2: yes, though i'm at a bit of a disadvantage in that i'm an ubuntu newbie
<jdeslip> I am personally for both logging and indexing... (I believe all public info should be indexable)
<jdeslip> but, this is not a personal or even team issue.  This is an official Ubuntu channel; so it is an Ubuntu issue.  The proper way to propose change here is through the LoCo council.
<nuboon2age_> okay i didn't realize that was your PoV jdeslip, good to know
<dragon> I'm neutral at this point, and need to hear more about the issue before I make up my mind. What are the advantages of not having the channel indexed?
<nuboon2age_> well i'm not trying to set the policy for all of Ubuntu LoCos, just ours jdeslip
<pleia2> so perhaps once we learn whether it's possible, we discuss it here further?
<pleia2> it would be great to see an option for each channel to turn on/off indexing, as the team decides
<nuboon2age_> dragon: i've personally experienced cyberstalking, and googling for any/all info on a person is the easiest way to cyberstalk
<dragon> pleia2: +1 for letting teams control indexing decisions
<eps> The TOS explicitly states that all logs will be indexed.
<akk> dragon: And you can't chat casually if you're self-editing knowing every word will still be findable 50 years from now.
<nuboon2age_> i have colleagues that have experienced severe, over the top cyber- and then in-person stalking
<pleia2> eps: right, this is a policy we're looking to change, so we need to take it to the folks who control it
<jdeslip> pleia2: I think it would be good to have our team decide as well.
<pleia2> nuboon2age_: since you're admittedly new to ubuntu, would you like me to talk to jussi and see what we need to do to get the policy adjusted? (I don't have time to champion this issue, but getting you on the right track might help)
<nuboon2age_> nhaines: i understood your previous chats as being in favor of blocking indexing.  is this correct?
<jbermudes> Our LoCo should vote to determine if this is an issue that concerns the LoCo and that we would like to start a discussion with the IRC/LoCo council as well as other LoCos. This is an important test of what degree of autonomy LoCos have.
<nuboon2age_> pleia2: yes that'd be great
<pleia2> jbermudes: based on discussion over the past month, I think people dislike logging, but hate indexing more, we can vote but I think it'd just be a formality
<jdeslip> jbermudes: We could vote, but we couldn't do anything about the vote.  Logging/indexing is currently set up through the council, so we need someone interested in the change to propose it.
<dragon> jdeslip: before we propose it, we need to be sure that we're going to turn it off as soon as we have control of it.
<nuboon2age_> jdeslip: as above i'm okay with speaking up for it, but would like some help from more experienced Ubunteros
<dragon> Otherwise the effort wouldn't be a productive one.
<dragon> I'd vote for logging and against indexing.
<jdeslip> Does anyone other than me think indexing is actually a good idea?  (I.e. for the potential help google gives people searching for resolutions to issues and searching past discussions?)
<akk> It would be a win even if we could just get them to open it to public discussion. There might be other LoCos who care as well.
<nuboon2age_> i can see those points, but it is out weighed for me by the reality of violation of privacy jdeslip
<pleia2> akk: agreed, I'll talk to jussi about this point too
<jdeslip> I think pleia2 is right, and group members are generally against indexing, so no vote is really necessary, if I am the only pro-indexing fool :)
<crashsystems> I like the idea of non-indexed time limited logs behind a captcha. Perhaps three months or something like that.
<akk> jdeslip: I've had google direct me to IRC logs when I was trying to solve a tech issue, and it's always been a disaster -- 1000 lnes of which the relevant ones are scattered across 200 lines.
<pleia2> crashsystems: yeah, logs which are vaguely restricted should certainly be part of this discussion
<akk> jdeslip: Now if I see an IRC log in that sort of search, I don't even bother looking.
<pleia2> I think we're going to move toward wrapping this meeting up
<dragon> akk: +1
<pleia2> I'll talk with jussi and touch base with nuboon2age_ and others who are interested, and we take things from there?
<jtatum> jdeslip: i think indexing is inevitable, and that the logs aren't terribly useful unless they can be searchedâ¦ so i guess that makes me for it
<jdeslip> akk: but that is a problem for the search engines algorithm... not for us to solve it for it them I think
<nuboon2age_> jdeslip: even if its 'after' the meeting i'd be happy to discuss #3
<pleia2> I'd like to see this be a public discussion too, so hopefully we'll get that :)
<akk> Sounds good, pleia2! (And I'm interested too, and happy to participate in a discussion.)
<jdeslip> nuboon2age_: thanks, I have to run pretty soon though.  Perhaps I'll catch you on here tomorrow?
<pleia2> ok, anything else to add before we wrap up the meeting?
<nuboon2age_> okay or whenever jdeslip
<nuboon2age_> pleia2: so hopefully y'all would guide me in how to proceed
<jdeslip> I'd like add a thank you to pleia2 for running the meeting!
<pleia2> thanks for coming everyone :)
<jledbetter> Thank you pleia2 :)
<nuboon2age_> ty pleia2
<jtatum> +1
<jdeslip> OK, good night all.  Happy short work week!
<nuboon2age_> jdeslip: any specific questions about u.h.'s i can be thinking about?
<jledbetter> jdeslip, You too :)
<pleia2> that reminds me, thanksgiving will make things tricky, I'll get moving on site stuff as quickly as possible but I'm flying back east on tuesday night
<pleia2> at the very least I'll be in touch with our shiny new website team all week though :)
<jledbetter> yay!
<jtatum> looking forward to it
<MarkDude> Did my vote count?
<akk> nuboon2age_: I hope you send out an announcement about that SJ peace thing to the ML ... sounds neat, and a lot of people won't see it if it's only on IRC.
<MarkDude> I had to run to the store to get something for my Grandmother
<akk> MarkDude: Turned out there's nothing to vote on because we don't have control, but there was a consensus that we need to get some discussion opened up with the council about letting LoCos decide.
<MarkDude> Ok
<nuboon2age_> akk: okay
<MarkDude> Thats sort of thing has made me uppity in the past, I just sort of expect such things like Local groups not being allowed to choose:(
<akk> I get the sense it's sort of like "If you LoCos are going to use our name and our equipment then you have to follow our rules."
<DarkwingDuck> Hey guys, what I miss?
 * MarkDude is just resigned to the idea that we need petition to  get ideas approved here <sigh :P <\sigh>
<MarkDude> Whatever
<DarkwingDuck> MarkDude: It's </sigh> :P:P
<jledbetter> <sigh/> or <sigh>:p</sigh> works
<DarkwingDuck> ??
<DarkwingDuck> :P
<MarkDude> DarkwingDuck, as long as you are correcting - I forgot my 1st >
<eps> DarkWingDuck: dragon | I've registered ubuntu-california.appspot.com. Adding pleia2 and jdeslip as admins/owners now.
<jledbetter> :P works as well
<eps> DarkWingDuck: you got left out
<nuboon2age_> DarkwingDuck: we decided to change then name of Ubuntu and have elected you the new king. ;-)
<DarkwingDuck> LOL
<jledbetter> It's good to be king
<DarkwingDuck> Sorry, my wifes birthday was today
<nuboon2age_> happy birthday to her
<DarkwingDuck> :)
<DarkwingDuck> What was tonight big topic?
<akk> Happy birthday Mrs Duck!
<pleia2> MarkDude: it's not physically possible for us to change indexing, we can vote all we want, we can decide we want indexing, but we still need to get the change made on the server which is contrary to current policy
<dragon> lol jledbetter.
<pleia2> there is nothing that we could have done at the meeting to make you happy about this situation
 * DarkwingDuck raises an eyebrow
<pleia2> anyway, off for sushis
<pleia2> later all
<nuboon2age_> pleia2: well it might help MarkDude to hear that the concensus view is to block indexing
<MarkDude> I know pleia2 - I just expect that to be the answer on Ubuntu stuff. Im not motivated enough to change it.
<pleia2> yeah, most of the team does want indexing :)
<pleia2> we will try for a change, I'm exploring the avenues
<nuboon2age_> pleia2: other way around
<akk> Most of the team does want blocking, doesn't want indexing, was my read.
<pleia2> err, right
<pleia2> sorry
<pleia2> want indexing blocked
<nuboon2age_> ;-D
<akk> But anyway, no formal vote or discussion -- we can have that later if the council lets us change it.
<DarkwingDuck> IRCC will not block indexing
<pleia2> need food, brain getting fuzzy :)
 * MarkDude is resigned to that being the way here. It less stressful for everyone that I have just accepted that the pyramid works from the top down, few exceptions
<DarkwingDuck> I've been talking to them since UDS almost daily
<MarkDude> Go eat pleia2  :)
<MarkDude> lol
<akk> Happy sushi, pleia2!
<MarkDude> Go eat, pleia2  :)
<MarkDude> commas are important
<akk> heh
<nuboon2age_> DarkwingDuck: how would we know what they might/might not do when provided with a proposal?
<DarkwingDuck> Because of statements that have been provided on the LoCo and IRC ML plus my petering them in person at UDS
<DarkwingDuck> The idea behind the log IS to have them indexed
<nuboon2age_> well they may be open minded enough to change their minds DarkwingDuck
<nuboon2age_> indexing and logging are easily separable DarkwingDuck
<DarkwingDuck> Counter question
<DarkwingDuck> Why is there no outcry with the ML?
<DarkwingDuck> Or the Wiki
<akk> I think it's a shame they decide stuff like this without allowing public discussion. But then I think that about a lot of Ubuntu decisions.
<DarkwingDuck> akk: there has been plenty of public discussion
<MarkDude> nUboon2Age, not likely they will change it
<nuboon2age_> DarkwingDuck: because most of the people who worry about privacy on irc log are even MORE worried about privacy on ML, so they don't use it.  me included
<akk> DarkwingDuck: Dunno about you, but I spend quite a bit longer composing an email than composing a single line of IRC chat.
<nuboon2age_> MarkDude: we'll see
<DarkwingDuck> *shrugs* I spend about 6 hours a day in IRC
<nuboon2age_> DarkwingDuck: and everyone is entitled to their own approach
<DarkwingDuck> But, there was public debate on the issue
<DarkwingDuck> It spammed my inbox for a while
<nuboon2age_> when/where DarkwingDuck?
<akk> DarkwingDuck: Public where?
<DarkwingDuck> LoCo ML
<DarkwingDuck> IRC ML
 * MarkDude still like the freeeeeedom that unlogged channel provides, talking about issues that are fine, yet not worthy of recording
<DarkwingDuck> IRCC Meetings
<nuboon2age_> i'll bet none of the rest of us knew about it DarkwingDuck
<MarkDude> DarkwingDuck, talk happens in very small circles, that does not mean it includes the public
<DarkwingDuck> and I'm willing to bet no one looked
<MarkDude> in public
<nuboon2age_> MarkDude: i'm glad we got the unlogged offtopic channel as well
<MarkDude> and the publis are 2 worlds
<DarkwingDuck> Then what is public?
<nuboon2age_> DarkwingDuck: if we don't know about it, why would we know to look
<dragon> pleia2: is our unlogged counterpart, -us-ca-offtopic, official?
<DarkwingDuck> a Logged Indexed chatroom?
<akk> DarkwingDuck: Looked how? If I'd set up a google alert for something like --ubuntu irc logging-- would I have gotten an announcement that way?
<MarkDude> DarkwingDuck, thats like Clinton saying it depends on what your meaning of is *is* :D
<MarkDude> Public means the group as a whole
<akk> Public means that people who have already expressed interest in a subject can find out about discussions of it.
<MarkDude> in public means people can observe, the ineer circle talking
<DarkwingDuck> My point is that is has been debated. Becasue you have not looked to find the info doesn't mean it didn't happen. Because the IRCC didn't email every user of IRC doesn't mean that nothing was said or talked about.
<akk> Remember the Hitchhiker's Guide, where the public announcement was in a filing cabinet in the basement behind a sign saying "Beware of the Leopard"?
<akk> (or something, I might not have all those details quite right :)
<DarkwingDuck> There are millions of users of Ubuntu... There is not a democratic vote when something gets changed.
<MarkDude> akk +1
<DarkwingDuck> It's there, its public but, if you don't take the time to learn then don't complain... It's like people who don't vite getting mad about elected officals
<DarkwingDuck> vite/vote
<akk> DarkwingDuck: If the answer is "This is not a democracy", that's an answer. But "The conversations were public, and if you didn't participate it's your fault for not knowing where to look" is a cop-out.
<eps> "Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos."
<MarkDude> DarkwingDuck, remeber OZ, there is a man behind the curtain, tell us we should accept that, its less annoying that telling that there is no man behind the curtain
<DarkwingDuck> hehehe
 * DarkwingDuck hands out tin-foil
 * MarkDude says the cake is a lie as he walks off to check on dinner
<DarkwingDuck> No, akk... It's not a cop-out
<DarkwingDuck> It was announced as much as other issues are.
<DarkwingDuck> It was talked about in the ML for weeks
<akk> Which ML?
 * MarkDude wear said hat, and ponders how some folks see FREEDOM differently
 * eps facepalms
<akk> I honestly don't want to string this out ... I just resent being "beware of the leopard"ed. :)
<jtatum> information wants to be free :)
<DarkwingDuck> If you want to knwo what is going on with the LoCos and IRCC here... https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts and https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-irc
<akk> If I should have known about something and didn't, I'd like to know how I should have known, what I should be paying attention to that I'm not.
<DarkwingDuck> There you go
<DarkwingDuck> I got those from the LoCo wiki page and the IRC wiki page (10 second search each)
<DarkwingDuck> Anyway... If you don't look it's not going to email you or ping you on IRC.
<akk> okay, so everyone in a LoCo should be on that list, I guess
<akk> just in case a discussion should pop up
<DarkwingDuck> Oh wait...
<DarkwingDuck> as a matter of fact..
<DarkwingDuck> I DID email the California team on 11/5/10 about LoCo talking about Logging.
<DarkwingDuck> You did have the info.
<DarkwingDuck> I'm sorry, Oct 5
<DarkwingDuck> Subject: Logging of Ubuntu LoCo Teams core channels
<DarkwingDuck> Date: Monday, October 04, 2010, 12:01:53 pm
 * DarkwingDuck shakes his head.
<akk> You're right. You did.
<DarkwingDuck> It was public discussion that I informed the team about.
<akk> I think I even saw that, and misunderstood thinking that was a closed list for the council
<akk> but I should have gone and looked for the list and found out it was open.
<nuboon2age_> akk: no i don't agree that it was all on you
<nuboon2age_> i don't agree with DarkwingDuck at all on this
<DarkwingDuck> With re what?
<akk> DarkwingDuck is right that he did tell us about the discussion, though, and I appreciate that even if I was confused about it at the time.
<DarkwingDuck> Howdy all!
<DarkwingDuck> I wanted to pass this on because this is such a hot topic of convrsation all
<DarkwingDuck> over and wanted to keep the California Team up to date with it. There has been
<DarkwingDuck> a few posts on the subject in the LoCo Contact ML on the subject.
<DarkwingDuck> DW
<DarkwingDuck> That was my message with the forward...
<MarkDude> akk I think that the responsibility was on the Council to let us know a drastic change wwas going to happen
<nuboon2age_> well for that i can thank DarkwingDuck, but the attitude of labeling with 'tin foil hat' is not cool
<MarkDude> Way to polarize there DarkwingDuck
<akk> I do agree the tinfoil remark was a little rude
<MarkDude> Mocking people that dont want every word logged
<DarkwingDuck> It was open to public... I passed on the info
<akk> but I was being a bit antagonistic too
<MarkDude> and therefore we are *paranoid*
<nuboon2age_> you are very sweet akk
<DarkwingDuck> I am sorry for being rude by mentioning Tin-foil
<nuboon2age_> ty DarkwingDuck
<MarkDude> after all what would a normal person have to hide?
<MarkDude> Cool,
<DarkwingDuck> You're right
<MarkDude> Fair enough :)
<DarkwingDuck> There was no hiding
<DarkwingDuck> It was open. I tried to pass it on.
<DarkwingDuck> I'm at a loss of what else I could have done...
<nuboon2age_> ty for trying DarkwingDuck
<DarkwingDuck> And I'll keep passing on info that comes across my Inbox
<akk> For clueless people like me it might have helped to say it's an open list and anyone can participate
<akk> but I'm not criticising you for not saying that -- that's my ignorance
<DarkwingDuck> fair enough akk
<DarkwingDuck> I will do that in the future :)
<akk> (I'm a bit trained by ubuntu-devel where I see all these interesting convos that I can't participate in, so I don't assume things are open)
<DarkwingDuck> I'm in about 30 MLs so when I see something I'll tag it and forward it along
<MarkDude> That is my issue DarkwingDuck
<MarkDude> I am part of many MLs so it is hard to track them, A few of them will include *important* in the subject line
<MarkDude> Fedora' elections for example, they just use it sparingly
<DarkwingDuck> I read 99.9% of what come in my inbox
<DarkwingDuck> .01 being Launchpad joins for places I'm admin and GIT comments unless it's flagged for me. :D
<akk> Most email I get with "IMPORTANT" in the subject line has to do with helping the ex-dictator of Nigeria with some extra cash. :)
<DarkwingDuck> ROFL
<jdeslip> Here is a question to all of you: is there anything stopping an individual in any of these channels from taking their own logs and publishing them to the web (indexable and all)?  If there is not, then it seems to me this discussion is really pointless.  There is no expectation of privacy in these channels.
<eps> jdeslip: there is not
<akk> Raise your hand if you've actually had that happen and it's still out there and indexed.
<akk> It could happen, but it's very rare.
<jdeslip> So, if you or I can take our logs and publish them (all it takes is one interested party to publish the logs) than we can't really stop them.
<eps> It's basically a copyright/licensing issue, not a technical one.
<jdeslip> Is it a copyright issue?
<jdeslip> Would that person be breaking some sort of EULA in publishing the logs?
<akk> Not a EULA, since we don't agree to anything upon joining.
<eps> Who owns your words?
<jdeslip> When you type them into a public forum?
<jdeslip> I think they are up for grabs no?
<eps> Not necessarily. It's a valid question.
<MarkDude> jdeslip,  its not
<jdeslip> Surely a newspaper would be in its right to print anything in one of these channels, right?
<MarkDude> Fedora made me sign an agreement, then they require my conversations to be ALL logged
<MarkDude> and publicly searchable
<jdeslip> But Mark, I can personally log this channel and publish it.  What would stop a person like me?
<eps> jdeslip: Probably yes, *if* it's newsworthy.
<jdeslip> Or a newspaper.
<MarkDude> They also give me $ for throwing parties,
<akk> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines (linked from the TOS mentioned in the topic here) says "Please also be aware that Ubuntu channels are logged, many officially and all of them unofficially by individual users, and the contents of all channels are considered to be in the public domain."
<MarkDude> and all the edia I want
<MarkDude> media
<MarkDude> So I dont mind the tradeoff
<eps> Public Domain presents a potential problem.
<jdeslip> akk: so there you have it.  I believe all users are free to publish their own logs (indexable and all)
<akk> Yep, that page is clear about that.
<eps> There's a huge difference between a nonexclusive royalty-free license and public domain.
<jdeslip> That to me, makes the whole question about the locobot logging and indexing totally pointless.  Not only can the locobot do that, ANYONE can
<MarkDude> fair trade in my mind, I volunteer here tho
<MarkDude> worst case scenario is not how things should be decided here jdeslip - that is what you a presenting
<MarkDude> sp / a /are
<DarkwingDuck> Okay
<DarkwingDuck> I just talked to IRCC about indexing and robots.txt
<eps> Do tell
<jdeslip> MarkDude: agreed - we may be able to ask the canonical people to put up a robots.txt
 * MarkDude leans in to listen
<DarkwingDuck> It's outside of them and it's something that has to be done via canonical sys admin
<DarkwingDuck> So
<jdeslip> but my point remains, that nobody should have an expectation of privacy in these channels.  There are inherently not-private. Anyone can publish the logs.
<DarkwingDuck> If you want to help me draft something up to send to them I will act as a spokes person to canonical sys admin for it.
<DarkwingDuck> They are the ones in charge of a robots.txt
<MarkDude> jdeslip,  your point is not assumed correct, by at least myself
<eps> jdeslip: would not one of the Creative Commons licenses be better than public domain?
<jdeslip> eps: The point is - I don't think there is any license for IRC channels
<jdeslip> (at least not these ones)
<eps> jdeslip: I think that might be a better avenue for discussion than logging/indexing
<DarkwingDuck> Any takers to help me out with this?
<akk> DarkwingDuck: I can help. Have to look at how the site indexes work to set up the right robots.txt.
<jdeslip> eps: I think licensing the channel content would be silly - it is best that people just realize that there is no privacy in these channels ;)
<DarkwingDuck> What I'm looking for is a draft to let them know what we want.
<eps> jdeslip: licensing isn't about reading so much as redistribution/reuse
<DarkwingDuck> They know how robot.txt work.
<DarkwingDuck> *robots.txt
<DarkwingDuck> We just want to let them know that we want to stop indexing in here... That's what I'm looking for.
<MarkDude> Privacy the word, is different to how I feel. I feel that I am having privacy invaded at a larger level by logging it ALL
<akk> Looks like it has to be one that applies to #ubuntu-loconame.html and #ubuntu-loconame.txt in each of the lower-level directories
<akk> for any loco that requests it.
<MarkDude> have at it log away, dont put up curtains, dont encrypt, dont secure your router, it all should be OPEN
<DarkwingDuck> akk: ?? site a URL?
<jdeslip> MarkDude: again, any of us can log and publish this. Why do you feel any sense of privacy at all in these channels?
<akk> For instance, logs in http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/11/22/
<eps> MarkDude: I guess I shouldn't ask your opinion on Google Street View. ;-)
<akk> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/yy/mm/dd/#ubuntu-loconame.{txt,html} are what we're asking robots.txt to list as non-indexable
<akk> right?
<jdeslip> MarkDude: Securing your own personal information is your own business.  But IRC channels are not private.  They are not files on your computer or home network.
<DarkwingDuck> akk: Yes
<akk> jdeslip: Anyone can break into your house and steal your hard drive, but that happens about as often as some random person publishing public logs of irc channels.
<jdeslip> akk: that is criminal
<jdeslip> akk: as far as I understand, publishing these IRC logs is not
<akk> Agreed, it's criminal whereas ubuntu practically encourages random public logs of IRC -- but in practice they're about equally likely.
<DarkwingDuck> Then what is the issue?
<eps> What I don't want is someone taking my works and representing them as their own; likewise, I don't want anything I didn't actually write misattributed to be.
<DarkwingDuck> Hence the reason why LOGs are importent
<eps> Anyone can take something in the public domain and slap their own copyright on it.
<akk> If they're public domain, anyone could take a log and edit it as they please and republish it.
<akk> (Libel laws still apply, but then the onus is on you to sue whoever published it.)
<jdeslip> eps: That's a good idea, I think I am going to try to turn this thrilling discussion into a book on privacy and sell it :)
<DarkwingDuck> But, if its published from source then its a moot point to do that.
<eps> There's then a burden of proof which can only be established if the logs are retained forever and indexed. ;-)
<akk> They don't have to be indexed for that, eps.
<jdeslip> eps: LOL - it's a catch-22
<akk> Just retained and available.
<eps> You have to be able to prove that they were originally in the public domain.
<DarkwingDuck> And, without it being indexed then you cannot prove that.
<akk> You don't have to prove it by googling for the phrase. Just by going to the appropriate log and saying "here's really what was said".
<eps> If you can find it. Hence the need for indexing.
 * DarkwingDuck blinks
<eps> So, there are a couple of ways to handle this. One is simply to change the license; another is to have rights revert to the author upon publication.
<eps> Basically, you'd be granting a one-time-use permission to IRC.
<jdeslip> Anyway, I stick by my original.  I any and all of us are free to log the channel and publish (with indexability) those logs, then it is a big foolish to expect any form of privacy in these channels.  And asking the Canonical people to stop indexing is just giving us a false sense of security.
<DarkwingDuck> So, you would have to sign an agreement everytime you logged on?
<jdeslip> It seems better to me to just drop this whole ILLUSION of privacy altogether.
<eps> Nope.
<DarkwingDuck> +1 jdeslip
<eps> All communication is unencrypted. There is no privacy.
<DarkwingDuck> So, anyong other then akk want to help?
<DarkwingDuck> Or, is this going to be a situation where we all want something done but no one wants to kick in the work to try and make it happen?
<akk> I have to go -- but DarkwingDuck, I'll be around tomorrow
<DarkwingDuck> akk: you on the ML?
<akk> Yep
<DarkwingDuck> Okay... I'll catch you tomorrow?
<akk> Sounds good -- talk to you then!
<DarkwingDuck> MarkDude, nuboon2age_ You guys want to help?
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-us-ca to: Welcome to the Ubuntu California Local Community (LoCo) Team! | Webpage: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam (has links to mailing list, forum, and more!) | Next Meeting: Sunday, Dec 5th, 7:00pm PST | This channel is publicly logged at irclogs.ubuntu.com. Use of this channel implies acceptance of the terms at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/TermsOfService
<DarkwingDuck> No?
<MarkDude> jdeslip, the 2 of us see privacy differently, thats ok, I dont know that we ever will
<DarkwingDuck> MarkDude: you want to help draft this email?
<MarkDude> DarkwingDuck,  like I said, my expectations of my dealings here are low on this sort of thing
<MarkDude> So its best that I step back on this
<eps> Documenting your expectations is not a bad idea.
<MarkDude> Keep it copacetic
<DarkwingDuck> MarkDude: I'm giving you a direct opertunity to do someting about what you are very vocal about.
<DarkwingDuck> And you don't want a solution?
<DarkwingDuck> Or, you want to talk about the problem and put no effort into correcting it?
<DarkwingDuck> That is slightly counter productive.
<MarkDude> The logging thing was the straw that broke the camels back, after I stepped back ubuntu shifted down my list of priorities
<DarkwingDuck> However, you are still extreamly vocal about it.
<MarkDude> Its still important, just not as much
<DarkwingDuck> I don't understand...
<MarkDude> I think I said less than 20 sentences regarding it, still less than I have said in the past
<DarkwingDuck> Nevermind. I think I finally understand.
<MarkDude> DarkwingDuck, I dont have the ability to pretend the emperor wears clothes, I'll acknowledge it every so often , but my level of trust in leadership has slipped a bit
<DarkwingDuck> Then I have a request
<MarkDude> Good luck with it
<eps> MarkDude: An emperor penguin suit?
<DarkwingDuck> If you are going to complain just to start a fight/argument please in the future don't. All you are doing is trying to cause problems and then refusing to help fix the the issues. This is nothing more then trying to tear a group apart that I frankly believe in a lot.
<MarkDude> Use me as an example of someone that got so burned out on being told what was best for me, that Ubuntu is no longer m #1 thing I
<MarkDude> Complain?
<DarkwingDuck> But, Don't sit here and argue how messed up something it.
<DarkwingDuck> argue that it's not public
<DarkwingDuck> Argue that is closed
<MarkDude> You already accused me (and others) of being nuts and paranoid f
<DarkwingDuck> Then when presented with a solution turn it down.
<DarkwingDuck> I'm trying to fix an issue that the group feels needs to be fixed.
<DarkwingDuck> Reguardless of what my personal views on it is.
<MarkDude> So my opinion is only valid if I drp other things I am doing - and make this issue#1?
<jdeslip> OK, anyway, good night all - for realz this time
<DarkwingDuck> No, Your opinion is very valid but, if you are going to champion that you can't do anything about it don't shy away from doing something about it.
<MarkDude> I cant night jdeslip
<MarkDude> I aint mad at ya :)
<MarkDude> or you DarkwingDuck
<MarkDude> btw
<MarkDude> Im just resigned to low expectations
<Eureka> wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects edited
<MarkDude> Thats not an argument, that is what was asked of me
 * DarkwingDuck sighs
<dragon> Anyone in Santa Clara area experiencing Internet outage?
<dragon> wait... o.O
<dragon> I don't see how one would answer that.
<dragon> nevermind.
<nuboon2age_> New bug re: blocking search indexing: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bug/680052
<nuboon2age_> i'm looking back and reading jdeslip's argument last night where he claims this is public domain
<nuboon2age_> that is incorrect
<nuboon2age_> one can try (and fail) to make an argument re: expectation of privacy on the channel, however
<nuboon2age_> that is entirely separate from copyright
<nuboon2age_> you never give up your copyright and things never automatically become public domain
<nuboon2age_> that is actually one of the reasons that the new Creative Commons zero (CC0) license
<nuboon2age_> because its so difficult to declare something public domain and actually achieve it legally
<nuboon2age_> they created a license to get as close as possible -- CC0
<nuboon2age_> but no, nothing becomes public domain automatically
<nuboon2age_> the legalities of this are extremely arcane and twisted.
<nuboon2age_> i've taken course on intellectual property rights.  very complex!
<nuboon2age_> and also what eps says"anyone can take something in the public domain and slap their own copyright on it."  is also not accurate
<nuboon2age_> first off this is not 'public domain'
<nuboon2age_> there is no place that is truly 'public domain'
<nuboon2age_> this is a problem with the english language
<nuboon2age_> you'd think that a domain that is public would be a 'public domain'
<nuboon2age_> but no
<nuboon2age_> public domain basically only acrues to a work after its copyright expires
<nuboon2age_> everything you ever 'perform' or create inherently has copyrights which you can't destroy, or delete and you can't simply declare it to be in the public domain.  it doesn't work that way legally
<nuboon2age_> the work has to have the copyright expire (ie. requires the passage of time) in order for it to become 'public domain'
<nuboon2age_> now you may ask, "what if i don't register my words?"
<nuboon2age_> A: it doesn't matter.  registering is a means to make it easier for copyrights
<nuboon2age_> to be handled legally since it creates a legal trail,
<nuboon2age_>  but whether its registered or no, all created works are considered to have copyrights.
<nuboon2age_> now it may indeed become difficult to prove that you are the copyright owner on something you've created,
<nuboon2age_> if you don't register it, but in no way does that remove your copyright.
<jdeslip> nuboon2Age - Are you really saying a newspaper couldn't publish content in this channel.
<nuboon2age_> so again jdeslip's argument that we have no copyright here is entirely without merit.
<jdeslip> By entering content into a public channel you are allowing for this use.  Or else a newspaper wouldn't be able to publish anything ever.
<jdeslip> nuboon2age: I don't admit to being a lawyer.  But I doubt very much you know more about this.
<jdeslip> I believe that any journalist would have no problem at all publishing your words verbatim that entered into a public channel.
<jdeslip> Can you tell me what law or license such a journalist would be breaking?
<jdeslip> nuboon2age_: Also can you please stop saying things like "entirely without merit" - exageration is not a good way to make a point.  Even if I am wrong, and there is some law that would forbid a journalist (or you and I) from posting the logs, it is not for trivial reasons that I am wrong.
<jdeslip> My point is this: the stuff you say in public IRC channels is not different from what you say in person at a real (in person) public forum.  It can (and often is) recorded and published.
<jdeslip> I don't know of any law or agreement I signed to get on here that would journalists (or even you or I) from publishing our conversations on here under fair-use or simply the idea of public information.
<jdeslip> I suspect, Ubuntu could change the terms of service on using their channels in order to make the content copyrighted.  But, I don't see any terms like that currently.
<jussi> theres stuff in the  motd...
<akk> nuboon2age_: The "public domain" came from that Ubuntu page I referenced, where *Ubuntu* says the contents of all their IRC channels are PD.
<akk> They may not be able to do that legally, but they claim they are.
<jussi> may I make a small paste?
<akk> A newspaper could publish short exerpts under Fair Use anyway, surely? Whether it's PD or not?
<jdeslip> akk: You are right.  If you look at the terms of service: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/TermsOfService - they are explicitly saying that anything entered into these public channels is to be thought of as public domain.
<jussi> - By connecting to freenode you indicate that you have read
<jussi> - and agree to adhere to our policies and procedures as per
<jussi> - the website (http://freenode.net). We would like to remind
<jussi> - you that unauthorized public logging of channels on the
<jussi> - network is prohibited. Public channel logging should only
<jussi> - take place where the channel owner(s) has requested this
<jussi> - and users of the channel are all made aware (if you are
<jussi> - publically logging your channel, you may wish to keep a
<jussi> - notice in topic and perhaps as a on-join message).
<jussi> thats from freenodes MOTD when you join the network
<akk> But then the Ubuntu IRC guidelines turn that around, and encourage public logging by anyone: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines
<akk> I think since Ubuntu is the channel owner, that overrides Freenode's policy.
<jdeslip> jussi: Ah!  I see.  So any journalist couldn't just publish the logs because it violoates Freenodes' policy.
<akk> "Please also be aware that Ubuntu channels are logged, many officially and all of them unofficially by individual users, and the contents of all channels are considered to be in the public domain."
<MarkDude> jdeslip, - no problem there. Peoples do follows the rules regarding the internets :D
<jussi> akk: that was written with freenode guidance. (we have a staffer on the ircc)
<MarkDude> No one is worried about journalists
<jdeslip> So, nuboon2age is partially right that for generic channels, Freenode's terms prohibit logging by random folks (likely not the case on other servers).  However, as akk pointed out, the terms for Ubuntu channels override the Freenode rules.
<MarkDude> More likely would be someone submitting to http://bash.org/ or some similar site. People here are not the issue, its he people that have not yet joined the group-- it is impossible to say how those folks will or will not act
<jdeslip> nuboon2Age - I officially concede defeat over the issue of whether anyone can log - since freenode terms clearly prohibit that.
<MarkDude> jdeslip, thats because rules are followed on the intertubes?
 * MarkDude realized that pro- logging attempts to say that no person will break the rules
<jdeslip> MarkDude: I'm not sure I understand the question.
<MarkDude> the only difference is that one would be a personal log- the other would be from an official site
<MarkDude> The logging *answer* is a false dilemma. Whatever, it gives some comfort. Have at it. Makes appealing to new users hard.
<jdeslip> It seems like Ubuntu's terms are within the Freenode terms if that is what you mean.  Freenode does allow logging if the channel owners OK it and people in the channel are notified.
<MarkDude> Hey new user- join this group, ask some questions- either on ML or IRC
<MarkDude> Be careful not to ask any dumb questions- you answers will be around forever
<MarkDude> You do not have a learning curve here- if you ask dumb questions, it may haunt you for years to some
<jdeslip> Yet, new users use ubuntuforums all the time . . . which are obviously searchable
<jussi> !dumb
<Eureka> The only dumb or stupid question is the one not asked. Please do not tell people off for asking something, just because it seems simple or obvious -- we discourage this attitude in all our channels.
 * MarkDude has never used the forums
<MarkDude> Partially due to its permanence
<MarkDude> Yes jussi I agree
<pleia2> the forums are by far the most active support avenue in the community, there are over a million registered users
<MarkDude> But any new user I talk to - I need to tell tham that there actions are being recorded
<MarkDude> their words are kept permanently
<jdeslip> No you don't... because believe or not - people actually expect that from the internet!
<MarkDude> maybe folks you know
<jdeslip> People are quite used to using things like ubuntuforums etc...
<pleia2> yeah, that drunk photo from your college party is indexed forever too ;) there are news stories about it all the time
<MarkDude> jdeslip, step back and think about the peple you see in my group
<MarkDude> Not average geeks
<MarkDude> newer people
<MarkDude> You cant speak for my circle
<jdeslip> MarkDude - arent' you the biggest user of Facebook I know?
<pleia2> it was interesting actually, we recently had a client ask us to unblock facebook and myspace for just one employee in the company - the recruiter
<MarkDude> I have a vanity site
<MarkDude> My number is public
<pleia2> she used them both extensively in the hiring practice, if it's not something people expect, they really should
<MarkDude> So everyone I know should do things like I do?
<MarkDude> jdeslip, I dont require my friends to be on FB
<MarkDude> I choose to be there
<MarkDude> If I made people join - just so they could go to my events
<jdeslip> I'm saying that each of us are individual responsible for our privacy on the net.  If you don't want something you say or do indexable - don't say or do it in a public channel.
<MarkDude> That would be analogous to here
<jdeslip> I believe *most* people understand this rule of thumb and say/do only what they want in places like ubuntuforums.  Those places are clearly not suffering from lack of newbies ;)
<MarkDude> Cool jdeslip - my comfort level with cameras everywhere,
<MarkDude> the other part of the most is a the group I do a decent job appealing to you
<MarkDude> not most
<MarkDude> Its a high bar Ubuntu is making here
<MarkDude> Along with creating a LP acct
<jdeslip> MarkDude: I'm not sure I understand you... :/
<MarkDude> privacy is NOT dead
<MarkDude> Regardless of you being ok with that
 * MarkDude is not
<jdeslip> Of course it isn't, the whole point of this is that there are private places and public places.  You shouldn't necessarily expect privacy in a public place. :)
<MarkDude> ITs very clear that many people dont get what I am saying
<MarkDude> And ALL of Ubuntu is PUBLIC
<MarkDude> ALL
<MarkDude> If people dont like that- they should not join
<MarkDude> I get it.
<jdeslip> I have many private places.  My personal computer, my home network, my email accounts... but forums? public irc channels? Nah.
<MarkDude> In other words- ALL of Ubuntu
<jdeslip> My Ubuntu desktop is private.  But my participation in the community is not private... is there even such a thing as private community?
<MarkDude> Yes- Gidget Kitchen respects privacy
<pleia2> it's true, the ethos of ubuntu is very much that "information wants to be free" to encourage collaboration and transparency (not everyone can be online 24/7)
<MarkDude> I have some friends that have been abused, hurt - whatever- they can talk about that in GK
<MarkDude> it is a safe space
<MarkDude> Safe does not mean a for sure- it means an attempt at respecting privacy - NOT a for sure
<pleia2> safe spaces are important, but for team channels where the purpose is working on projects that also impact folks who are not on irc all day it's been said that it's terribly unfair to them to block them from access to the discussions
<jdeslip> That's great... but that is not the purpose of a public IRC channel.  Even if it wasn't logged, you shuldn't be sharing information like that here.
<pleia2> that's why there is an #ubuntu-women-project channel, so people on the mailing list stopped feeling left out from project discussions
<MarkDude> pleia2,  the inverse of that - the womens shelter I have worked with- most of their members wont feel comfortable being logged
<MarkDude> pleia2, thats also the reason there is an unlogged channel
<pleia2> if you feel the -offtopic channel isn't enough, what do you propose to make sure we're not shutting out the rest of the members?
<MarkDude> to respect privacy
<pleia2> we have an unlogged channel, you created it
<pleia2> a bunch of loco teams do
<MarkDude> A mention of the OT channel in the main channels TOPIC
<MarkDude> Thata all
<pleia2> oh, when did you request this?
<pleia2> I must have missed it
<MarkDude> before the new board joined- But I realized it would be better to sort some stuff out 1st :)
<MarkDude> There is a log of it :D
<jussi> oh, that should be done
<pleia2> the topic is already very long, can you propose some short text to describe the channel? "for unlogged chat, join #ubuntu-us-ca-offtopic"?
<jussi> pleia2: you can drop the bit about logging as you have the onjoin message
<jdeslip> that seems reasonable to me
<pleia2> jussi: I think I'll hold off on that for now, since there were very strong feelings about it remaining in the topic itself
<pleia2> (we do the same for the -women channels)
<jussi> oh, fair enough
<MarkDude>   /msg chanserv topic #ubuntu-us-ca Welcome to the Ubuntu California Local Community Team! | Webpage: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam (includes; mailing list, forum, and more!) | Next Meeting: Sunday, Dec 5th, 7:00pm PST | This channel is publicly logged at irclogs.ubuntu.com. more details at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRCTermsOfService We have an un-logged channel at #ubuntu-us-ca-offtopic
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-us-ca to: Welcome to the Ubuntu California Local Community (LoCo) Team! | Webpage: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam (has links to mailing list, forum, and more!) | Next Meeting: Sunday, Dec 5th, 7:00pm PST | This channel is publicly logged at irclogs.ubuntu.com. Use of this channel implies acceptance of the terms at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/TermsOfService | We have an unlogged channel at 
<pleia2> doh
<MarkDude> lol
<MarkDude> :D
<jdeslip> at _______
<jdeslip> :)
<pleia2> lemme see precisely what is in the on-join message
<pleia2> maybe we can move the TOS bit out
<pleia2> hmm, can you see it via chanserv, or do I have to rejoin?
<nuboon2age_> just because our privacy is constantly being violated does not mean by any stretch of the imagination
<nuboon2age_> that we should give up our claims to our rights
<nuboon2age_> or roll over and give up
<nuboon2age_> on the contrary we need to fight for our rights
<MarkDude> btw - The way things are here now. I dont feel the imperative that things be changed immediately. I feel that my voice is now listened to. That makes a big difference to me
<nuboon2age_> our rights are not 'an illusion'
<MarkDude> +1
<nuboon2age_> they may not be maintained properly or even at all, but they remain our rights
<jdeslip> nuboon2age_: You were right that not anyone can log!  Freenode has terms to forbid it.  I bow to you in defeat.
<pleia2> ok, TOS line is in the join message
<MarkDude> lyz meet pleia2 , pleia2  meet lyz
<MarkDude> lol
<lyz> :)
<jdeslip> nuboon2age_: But, Ubuntu's terms clearly say you are agreeing to these channels being logged and public.
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-us-ca to: Welcome to the Ubuntu California Local Community (LoCo) Team! | Webpage: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam (has links to mailing list, forum, and more!) | Next Meeting: Sunday, Dec 5th, 7:00pm PST | This channel is publicly logged at irclogs.ubuntu.com | We have an unlogged channel at #ubuntu-us-ca-offtopic
<pleia2> there we go
<jdeslip> beautiful
 * MarkDude would still prefer nothing logged, and the OT channel not needed. But, after I talked to a few people, having th OT channel in the main topic was deemed- barely acceptable
<MarkDude> Acceptable nonetheless :)
<jdeslip> Is everyone happy now?  Can we forget all issues about logging/indexing now?
<jdeslip> If not happy, at least willing to accept the current compromises?
<MarkDude> that does not mean that I dont  still want to change it. I plan on doing so later. Realistically, the votes are not here to change that
<pleia2> I saw this morning that nuboon2age_ is following up regarding indexing with the councils in a bug report, so it's not in our court anymore
<MarkDude> jdeslip,  sue.
<MarkDude> sure
<MarkDude> Its much less stressful for myself since I lowered expectations ( and others also I imagine)
<jdeslip> pleia2: Well, according to irc terms - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/TermsOfService - indexing is clearly allowed.  I find it doubtful the council/IRC team will change their mind on that.  But... who knows!
<pleia2> yeah, so the bug report would be pushing for them to consider a policy change
<jdeslip> Okiedokie
<MarkDude> Maybe including that it is easier to join Fedora should. Ubuntu has MoinMoin, by anyones opinion that is harder than Media Wiki. You dont have to sign the CLA to get media sent to you. As much media as people need is made.
 * MarkDude just sees them lowering the bar to get people involved- and Ubuntu raising it
<MarkDude> They have time to sort this out tho- F14 is NOT ready for the average user on many levels :D
 * MarkDude doubts F15 will either
<MarkDude> yantrashilpi, So my job wants me to do a podcast, will you be the 1st interview?
<MarkDude> Would be good to promote FOSS, if you want the 1st show could be used for both feeds
<MarkDude> yantrashilpi, we can co-host the 1st if you want and maybe interview paulproteus pleia2 or jono or someone of high caliber like that :)
<yantrashilpi> MarkDude: that sounds good. I've been rather busy with work these last few days so haven't moved on it much
<yantrashilpi> What's the timeline?
<yantrashilpi> cohosting sounds very good and we can see how it is received.
<pleia2> ooh, zareason podcast?
<yantrashilpi> pleia2: what do you mean zareason podcast?
<MarkDude> yes
<pleia2> MarkDude's job is at zareason
<yantrashilpi> oh awesome!
<MarkDude> it wont just be about ZA either.
<MarkDude> The FOSS community in general will be a big part of it.
<yantrashilpi> yes, I'm not familiar with the local FOSS community so that would be really good to have you sort of guide me in the waters.
<yantrashilpi> well I should say not 'very' familiar
<yantrashilpi> would love to do a good intro to the Ubuntu and FOSS communities in general.
<yantrashilpi> not sure how to distribute that to an interested audience yet.
<MarkDude> Or as I call it- the *power of the penguin*
<yantrashilpi> oh hopefully not in the exorcist sense :)
<yantrashilpi> the power of the penguin compells you!
<MarkDude> Well for one- I plan on having Nixie Pixel help out- she has roughly 1 billion fans
<MarkDude> maybe a little less
<MarkDude> :)
<yantrashilpi> wow!
<pleia2> lol
<adcoma> hey all!
<pleia2> welcome adcoma
<adcoma> thanks!
<adcoma> i have a problem with d510mo...  with r8111dl network card, driver 8169.
<adcoma>  on occasion it works and sometimes not
<adcoma> http://amk1.wordpress.com/2009/06/09/realtek-8168-module-issue , This not work for me
<adcoma> help me pleaseeeeeeeeee!!!!!!
<pleia2> adcoma: does it work on some networks and not others, or the same network all the time?
<adcoma> the same network!
<adcoma> :(
<pleia2> adcoma: might also want to try searching on ubuntuforums.org, there are a lot of users there and there might already be a thread about your chipset
<adcoma> thanks will try!
<jdeslip> Ya, ubuntuforums is great for this sort of thing
<pleia2> if no one else gets to it before me, I'll do "Shortly After the Meeting" https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/MeetingChecklist tonight
<MarkDude> Is the a wiki page for a podcast?
<MarkDude> http://hackerpublicradio.org/eps.php?id=0601  ep0601 :: A community icecast and mumble server for recording podcasts
<MarkDude> Some options for podcasting
<mcgrof> howdy
<pleia2> welcome mcgrof :)
<mcgrof> thanks pleia2  :)
<pleia2> MarkDude: california team wiki page? here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/Podcast
<yantrashilpi> MarkDude: pleia2 got it right... that's it.
<mcgrof> hm, was that an earthquake?
<mcgrof> lets see
<mcgrof> guess not
<MarkDude> Cool ty
<MarkDude> Using his icecast server might be the easiest entry
<MarkDude> Either that or trying to use the Twit cottage
<akk> Are they in Davis, or Berkeley?
<jdeslip> Petaluma I think
<jdeslip> What do all you fine folks think about the Novell sale this morning?
<akk> WARNING: Attempting to keep track of SuSE ownership can cause dizziness and confusion.
<akk> I'm not really following the article on the register -- something about selling intellectual property to Microsoft?
<jdeslip> akk: that is the part that worries me.  Cause doesn't Novell own the IP for UNIX.  I thought that was the result of all the SCO madness.
<jdeslip> If Microsoft ends up with all the IP for UNIX - they will surely use it against Linux
<jdeslip> Or at least as way to make people license Linux from them.
<akk> So does anybody know if that's part of the IP supposedly about to get sold?
<DarkwingDuck> nUboon2Age: You about?
<DarkwingDuck> akk: we are on hold for that request for a bit...
<pleia2> http://raphaelhertzog.com/2010/11/22/how-ubuntu-builds-up-on-debian/
<pleia2> great post, with statistics and everything :)
<akk> DarkwingDuck: Okay, I'll chill.
<DarkwingDuck> akk: I'll let you know.
<nuboon2age_> jdeslip: no bowing please.. :-)
 * DarkwingDuck raises an eyebrow
 * jdeslip was wrong about *anyone* being able to publish logs on Freenode - apparently Freenode has terms that only allow channel owners to... 
<jdeslip> Hey there are 4 paid apps in the software center now.
<jdeslip> Just added Fluendo codec packs.
<jdeslip> I previously bought Brukkon... I don't really recommend it ;)
<jamalta> hm,. did the new theme break the planet's rss feed? http://planet.ubuntu.com/rss200.xml doesn't work
<jamalta> not sure if it ever worked, this is the first time i'm trying to use the feed
<jdeslip> I see that rww is a new #ubuntu Op!  Congrats rww wherever you are!
<pleia2> jamalta: it should be http://planet.ubuntu.com/rss20.xml not 200
<pleia2> so there is an error in the new theme, since it's pointing to 200
<jamalta> pleia2: thank you :)
 * pleia2 asks where the bug should be reported
#ubuntu-us-ca 2010-11-23
<jdeslip> Ubuntu-Server boots so fast.  I think it is literally 2 seconds after my bios...
<jdeslip> RHEL used to take like 2 minutes
<jdeslip> I guess when you get rid of X, you can boot real fast :)
<akk> X doesn't take that long, but gnome does.
<akk> I'd love to get that 2-second boot, though! 10 sec is about the fastest I've heard of.
<jdeslip> For server even?
<jdeslip> It is crazy fast for server
<jdeslip> BIOS takes way longer than Ubuntu :)
<akk> BIOSes are amazingly slow, some of them.
<jdeslip> ya, that is true - particularly on the MoBo's for build-it-yourself computers
<seidos> here is an ant simulator that's available in linux that isn't in the repositories.  http://www.not-equal.eu/myrmedrome/main_en.html
<seidos> oh, and hello, pardon my manners
<pleia2> haha, awesome
<seidos> apparently ants separate their cemeteries and nurseries
<seidos> hmmm, maybe i should send it to the mailing list
<seidos> i'm not sure if it's worthy of spamming a mailbox, but then considering the general boring stuff i get in my box...
<jdeslip> Did you create this?
<seidos> jdeslip, i wish
<seidos> i'm really not good at learning languages, programming included.  probably because i just don't find myself "talking" to my computer much.
<seidos> probably because i don't really need my computer to do anything that it can't already do, and i've already programmed a couple tiny programs...
<jdeslip> Ya, I slowly got into programming for my desktop when I developed very specific needs :)
 * seidos has a conversation with his computer
<seidos> that would be a cool title for a novel "My Conversation with a Computer" or something
<akk> I wish I could adjust my wants so my computer already did all of them. :)
<seidos> well, it kind of already happened in Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy, i really need to finish that book
<seidos> akk, what is it that you want?
<seidos> well, that you're computer can't provide, obviously
<akk> seidos: I guess I could send you to my software page for a long list of the things I've (partially) added already ... more stuff all the time.
<seidos> i'd love to program my computer to give me some food, but, i don't think that's going to happen :P
<seidos> akk, you would have to, i don't remember your website url
<akk> E.g. just yesterday I was writing an article and got tired of having to fix all the < to &lt; and so forth when I pasted code samples
<akk> and ended up having to write that in elisp because emacs doesn't seem to have a way to do it already.
<akk> seidos: http://shallowsky.com/software/
<seidos> that is interesting, i just thought about "knows" and memory...
<seidos> knowing appears to be more involved than just memory, because if there is no capability for feeling...
<seidos> then do you really know it?
<seidos> just thinking about this analogy idea i had...
<DarkwingDuck> nuboon2age_: ping
<nuboon2age_> yo DarkwingDuck
<DarkwingDuck> nuboon2age_: care for a PM?
<nuboon2age_> DarkwingDuck: unfortunately i'm in a hurry at the moment but can try and catch up another time
<DarkwingDuck> nuboon2age_: roger
<nuboon2age_> ty DarkwingDuck
<dragon> I'm helping someone remotely to fix a system without kernel. How do I go about doing that?
<akk> Without any kernel at all, they'll have to boot into a live cd or rescue disk.
<akk> But how did they manage to not have a kernel?
<dragon> akk: I removed the -server packages and installed ubuntu-desktop. I was never warned that the system was going into an unusable state.
<dragon> akk: they're booted into a liveCD and awaiting my instructions while trying to make the box accessible to me via SSH.
<akk> What does it say when it boots? Why do you say there's no kernel there?
<akk> If they're in a live CD, they can mount the real filesystem and look at /boot
<akk> and see if there are in fact any kernels there.
<dragon> 1. There's no other option than memtest
<akk> Maybe grub is just pointing to the wrong one.
<dragon> 2. /boot doesn't contain vmlinuz..., initrd... etc.
<akk> Wow, ubuntu-server must cover everything.
<akk> How about copying over whatever kernel the livecd has on its /boot?
<akk> (assuming there is one there)
<dragon> oh also, there was no package called ubuntu-server.
<dragon> LiveCD certainly has a kernel, but I'm unsure about what files to copy. Looking for an authoritative list.
<akk> vmlinuz-... and initrd-...
<akk> the other stuff in /boot (system.map, abi, config, vmcoreinfo etc.) aren't needed to boot.
<akk> so you'll need the vmlinuz and initrd, then you'll need to add a grub entry
<dragon> akk: got it. What'd be an easy way to add the grub entry? sudo update-grub isn't working as expected.
<dragon> akk: please hilight me if possible
<akk> It's really easy with grub1. A lot harder with grub2 since it expects to be run only from the installed system. :(
<akk> dragon: They can probably edit (on the /boot corresponding to the installed system, not the live CD) /boot/grub/grub.cfg
<akk> and add a section that looks like this (with the name of their real kernel, if it's not 25-generic): http://paste.ubuntu.com/535440/
<akk> and with the root set to an appropriate partition, not (hd0,5) and the right UUID
<dragon1> akk: yes, I'll attempt that as soon as I get the SSH access.
<dragon> akk: it appears that LiveCD's /boot doesn't have those files.
<akk> liveCDs do have network drivers, though, so I'm sure you can find one to download (maybe the appropriate kernel package .deb).
<akk> It might also conceivably work to mount the real /boot over whatever is mounted from the CD, then install kernel packages and update grub (though not sure if the livecd has the appropriate grub files in /etc, might have to install/reinstall grub2 too).
<akk> install as in apt-get
<dragon> akk: that sounds like something I'd have to do myself, rather than sending the instructions
<dragon> I guess they're done for the evening.
<dragon> I wish apt-get had warned me about removing the last kernel.
<dragon> and I'm positive I installed ubuntu-desktop package. That missed out the kernels?
<akk> You should probably figure out which package it was you removed, so you won't do that again.
<akk> ubuntu-desktop is desktop stuff -- X, gnome, etc.
<akk> And it's just a meta-package -- it's one of the first things that gets removed from my systems (because I remove some things it insists on).
<dragon> interesting. ubuntu-desktop recommends linux-headers-generic, but doesn't depend on it.
<akk> aptitude show ubuntu-desktop | grep linux shows only linux-headers-generic, no actual kernel packages.
<dragon> So you can have ubuntu-desktop running on your system without a kernel!
<akk> Oh, you're right, even that is a recommendation.
<akk> linux-headers isn't the kernel.
<akk> linux-image is the kernel.
<dragon> so it depends on the headers, not the actual kernel.
<dragon> I'm starting to feel like I'm getting into trouble for recommending Ubuntu.
<akk> If you're recommending ubuntu to a newbie who isn't near you, then telling them to remove random large package sets without testing that first
<akk> then yeah, you'll probably get into trouble.
<akk> I'm all for experimenting and removing stuff, do it all the time ... but not on my mom's machine just before I leave to come back home. :)
<dragon> guess so.
<crashsystems> Anyone in here have a thinkpad x201?
<akk> o/
<akk> Why? I quite like mine.
<crashsystems> I'm thinking about an x201 for my next laptop
<crashsystems> so you have an x201 akk?
<akk> Yes -- sorry, o/ means someone raising their hand.
<akk> One of those silly IRC shorthands we get used to and forget people might not know.
<crashsystems> how is the intel gpu you running for you on 10.10?
<akk> I'm not running 10.10, sorry, just 10.04.
<crashsystems> ok, in 10.04 then.
<akk> It works great on 10.04 -- it's a studly google earth machine.
<akk> (I'm not a gamer, so google earth is my ultimate test of 3d)
<crashsystems> does it have an hdmi port? I seem to remember seeing that somewhere, but I'm not sure
<akk> It has this weirdo lenovo proprietary port, for which you can get an adaptor.
<akk> I'm not sure how much the adaptor costs -- I use one at work but didn't have to buy it myself.
<crashsystems> it doesn't have a dvd drive, does it?
<akk> Oh, wait, sorry, ignorance: is HDMI the video thing, different from DVI?
<crashsystems> yes, different from dvi
<akk> No, no optical drive at all. Though at work I have a docking station with an optical drive.
<crashsystems> what would you say are the things you like most and least about it?
<akk> I think the answer is it doesn't have HDMI (or DVI either) built in
<akk> but you might be able to get it through a docking station
<crashsystems> does it have standard monitor port? I'd be ok with just that
<akk> Yes, there's a standard VGA port built in.
<akk> Normal plug, no dongle or anything silly like that.
<crashsystems> how is the keyboard?
<akk> The keyboard is fabulous. Best I've ever seen on a laptop.
<crashsystems> :D
<akk> With one and a half exceptions: F1 and ESC are interchanged from where I expect them, so I've ended up remapping them 'cause I couldn't get used to it
<crashsystems> anything you don't like about the x201?
<akk> and Alt and Fn are interchanged compared to my Vaio, but I only count that as half a complaint because it might be the Vaio that's weird.
<akk> Wait, not alt -- it's Fn and the Windows key.
<akk> Which reminds me, I need to put an ubuntu sticker over that Win logo :)
<crashsystems> :D
<akk> (thank you mark and zareason :)
<akk> And I think it's the Vaio that's weird, not the Lenovo, because the Win key is between ctrl and alt on the Lenovo and my desktop keyboard too
<crashsystems> I'm thinking of getting the i7 x201, swapping out the default 4gb ram with 8gb from newegg, and perhaps one of those seagate hybrid drives.
<crashsystems> plus a decent sized external screen for when I'm at home
<akk> This one is the i5 with 6G (2+4, I know that means they probably can't run dual-channel)
<akk> and so far, just the original drive; I have another one that I keep meaning to put in (and I hear they're easy to open but can't speak from experience yet).
<akk> And the original win7 takes up WAY too much space on the disk, wish I could stuff it into a VM or something.
<crashsystems> I'd be wiping the drive with Ubuntu on the first boot
<akk> Oh, I have the Intel wifi (happily) but I think some of them might have Broadcom.
<crashsystems> Broadcom works quite well on my dell actuall
<crashsystems> actually*
<akk> Ah, okay, so you're ready for that if need be.
<crashsystems> yep
<crashsystems> if nothing else it would be fairly inexpensive to swap it for an intel
<akk> I think the only Linux-related issue I've had is that under gnome, the screen brightness kept suddenly dimming
<akk> and under openbox and no-gnome, when X starts it severely dims the screen, but if I brighten it it stays bright.
<crashsystems> I think there is a setting for that in gnome
<akk> I wouldn't have minded if it was like a screensaver, get bright again if I move the mouse, but it would stay dim
<akk> so I had to do Fn-Home about six times every few minutes
 * akk wonders if there's any way to get ubuntu to make /sys/class/backlight/acpi_video/brightness be writable by someone other than root
<Eureka> wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/UbuntuHours edited
<Eureka> wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/10December19 edited | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Menu edited | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/10November21 edited | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/Current edited | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings edited
<Eureka> wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/WhoDoesWhat edited
#ubuntu-us-ca 2010-11-24
<jdeslip> Ubuntu to become a rolling release distro: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/11/ubuntu-to-become-a-rolling-release-distro/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+d0od+(Omg!+Ubuntu!)
<jdeslip> I would personally love that
<jdeslip> I am always annoyed when a new Firefox comes out and I have to wait 6 months until the next ubuntu release...
<jdeslip> (or install it by hand or through someone's ppa)
<kdub_> ping davidw? sorry, i forgot your irc name
<seidos> kdub_, Darkwingduck?  it looks like he isn't on
<kdub_> seidos: thanks, i'll keep a lookout
<seidos> kdub_, you could also try the mailing list.  i <3 the mailing list
<kdub_> eh, i was just gonna see if he had pix from SDUH
<MarkDude> Has everyone signed up for Community Leadership Summit West 2011 http://clswest2011.eventbrite.com/
<pleia2> si
<MarkDude> 49 of the FREE tickets left. Its an unconference inspired by Mr Bacon
<MarkDude> Yay, pleia2
<MarkDude> We will have a few more FOSS folks for this one
<crashsystems> I seem to recall someone mentioning a regular meetup in mountain view. Am I crazy?
<biosshadow> hello
<MarkDude> A few of them crashsystems
<pleia2> crashsystems: yeah, an ubuntu hour, 3rd thursday of the month I believe
<pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/UbuntuHours
<pleia2> not updated for december
<crashsystems> ooh, one in san jose too
<biosshadow> there was one
<biosshadow> it has past crash
<pleia2> ok, airplane is here, later all :)
<MarkDude> ttyl pleia2
<jtatum> fare thee well pleia2
<MarkDude> crashsystems, aaditya has a LAMP meetup at Yahoo also
<biosshadow> MarkDude which Yahoo? b/c i work down the street from a yahoo building
<MarkDude> Which reminds me - jtatum how can I talk you into giving that talk you gave on LAMP with Ubuntu again? I wish all of it was recorded
<jtatum> biosshadow: it's the main campus in sunnyvale near lockheed
<MarkDude> http://picasaweb.google.com/aadityabhatia/LAMPMeetup#5453038879078304770
<biosshadow> jtatum :-( i am near the one on Great America Parkway
<jtatum> MarkDude: i had talked to aaditya about possibly doing a related topic in december. if you have a venue for it i'd give it again. maybe at one of the east bay lugs?
<jtatum> biosshadow: so much yahoo :) that's a neat area though. santa clara/san joseish?
<biosshadow> indeed
<biosshadow> i am new to the area, so I am happy to find loco/lugs in the area
<biosshadow> that i can get too
<crashsystems> public transportation ftw
<biosshadow> i moved from middle of no where Alabama
<jtatum> oh! welcome :) all of the south bay meetups so far have been in spots convenient to light rail so hopefully we'll see you soon :)
<jtatum> moved recently from orlando myself
<biosshadow> you will see both me and crashsystems alot by my guess
<biosshadow> (he is my roommate)
<jtatum> ah cool
<crashsystems> jtatum: there are a number of us floridians here, aren't there?
<jtatum> crashsystems: yeah jamalta is in san francisco. maybe others i'm forgetting?
<MarkDude> jtatum, sounds like a good deal. I have the link to your slides to shop it around, so to speak
<jtatum> ok, thanks MarkDude :)
<jtatum> afk
<biosshadow> yea my LoCo mustn't uch of anything https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlabamaTeam
<biosshadow> wasn't much*
<dragon> biosshadow: Where do you work?
<dragon> I work in the building next to Yahoo! at Great America. ;)
<dragon> Maybe we're in the same building.
<jdeslip> pleia2: I'm guessing it is no colder in New England than what you left here!  Record lows today all over Bay Area
<akk> brrrrr
<akk> So pleia2's leaving sucked all the warmth out of the state? pleia2, come back soon!
<jledbetter> jtatum is out of the state too. And it's nice and warm in Virginia (where he went) ;) Muhahahhaahhaa!
<jussi> its -12 here today :(
<MarkDude> jussi, isnt that normal for you tho?
<jussi> MarkDude: yes, but doesnt change its coldness :(
<MarkDude> I looked in the birdbath- there was ice
<jussi> and it got colder, I went and looked and its -14 now :/
<MarkDude> Reminds me of living in the Pacific Northwest
<MarkDude> 1st time I was walking around and the grass made a crucnhing noise- it took me a bit to figure out what it was
<MarkDude> It has snowed where I live in California 3 times only
<akk> 2-3 times for me too, but somehow it's always when I'm away, and I hear it snowed at home. Hmph.
<MarkDude> It snowed in Lafayette for a whole 5 minutes once, stayed on the ground for a whole 15 minutes
<jussi> well you are all welcome to come visit me :D
 * akk grabs 4-5 layers of sweater/jacket before hopping on the plane, and maybe an electric vest :)
<jussi> hehe
<akk> What I really wish I could get are electric gloves. I always wanted something like that for motorcycling and astronomy.
<akk> My hands get so cold.
<jussi> heh
<MarkDude> Those handwarmer things are great for times like this
<MarkDude> jussi, you must love when Californians freak out when it hits 30 degrees- or 0 Celsius
<jussi> heeh
<outofjungle> dragon: ping
<dragon> outofjungle: pong
<outofjungle> dragon, are you interested in ski/boarding this friday?
<dragon> outofjungle: sounds exciting, yes
<MarkDude> dragon, did you ever find that door handle?
<dragon> MarkDude: yes, and they attached a new one there that doesn't come off that easily.
<dragon> jussi: I'm assuming you mean -12 Celsius :)
<MarkDude> So I will have to throw another door handle form another room off the balcony next time ?
<jussi> yes, of course
 * MarkDude is an American dammit.
<outofjungle> awsome dragon, I will txt or email you the details.. MarkDude, are you intersted in ski/boarding this friday too?
<akk> Jon Carroll had a funny article last week about temps when he lived in Chicago for a while (he's a California boy)
 * MarkDude has a date this weekend
<akk> seeing a thermometer that read "1", saying "1 is not a temperature" and another California nearby says "Maybe it'll hit 2 tomorrow"
<MarkDude> outofjungle, she is shinier than either you or dragon :D
<MarkDude> No offense
<outofjungle> hahaha
<MarkDude> akk lol
<outofjungle> MarkDude: a bottle of Jameson is shiny :P
 * dragon is now offended.
<dragon> Shinier than a dragon? Really?
<MarkDude> Yes tis true
<MarkDude> I might see it diffently if I liked dudes
 * MarkDude likes chicks tho 
<MarkDude> :D
<dragon> MarkDude: I hope she's a Homo Sapien, not a Pygoscelis Papua or something.
<MarkDude> Theres a whole backstory with this woman- (human) I will tell you the story sometime - when it is not logged :)
<outofjungle> dragon: who cares, MarkDude has his penguin suit
<MarkDude> And damn I look good in it
<dragon> Penguin suit saves the date!
 * MarkDude cant walk by a mirror with stopping to admire - when I wear it
<akk> Maybe not best if it's a first date.
<MarkDude> akk, we have known each other for a few years, she knows what she is getting into
<MarkDude> And still she proceeds...
<MarkDude> :)
<akk> Brave girl. :)
<outofjungle> someone give MarkDude a case of rockstar for the weekend :)
<MarkDude> lol
<MarkDude> She would be cool with the suit, she is real mellow tho, so sh would not dig the rockstar thing
<dragon> MarkDude: do you have a spare suit for her?
<akk> And a volleyball you can pass back and forth from your feet to hers, like an egg?
<outofjungle> lol
<dragon> Is the date on land or underwater?
<outofjungle> hope the suit helps to "breaks the ice"
<MarkDude> lol
<MarkDude> The egg pass would be a good way to pass some time- if needed
<MarkDude> I spent some time talking with Nixie about making some his and hers penguin suits
<dragon> Sexy Penguins?
<MarkDude> Yes.
<MarkDude> Have not figured out the details yet, but a Penguin Mob would be fully epic
<dragon> I'm in.
<MarkDude> Well let me clarify
<MarkDude> ALL penguins are sexy, at least to me
<MarkDude> and a few others
<MarkDude> Some kind of extra sexy tho. somewhere between PG-13 and R, but, still classy :)
<MarkDude> We need to restart the GK wiki for planning some events
 * MarkDude is not putting it back up until the spam thing wont happen
<dragon> MarkDude: Why not require login for editing the wiki and restrict registration to admins?
<MarkDude> Well yes
<dragon> MarkDude: I can help out with that. I've done MediaWiki in past.
<MarkDude> Are you volunteering if I give you ftp to set it up?
<dragon> SSH, please.
<MarkDude> cool.
<MarkDude> PMing you login info
<dragon> Email preferred, PM ok.
<MarkDude> k
<MarkDude> http://saraford.net/
<MarkDude> Sara no longer works at MS
<dragon> Interesting.
<MarkDude> She works at Ohloh now
<MarkDude> as Community Manager
<MarkDude> Yay for Sara, she said she would come to some FOSS events here, we need to invite her, she lives in the Valley I think
<MarkDude> dragon, you know Abbas Zaidi
<MarkDude> ?
<dragon> MarkDude: the name is quite familiar. Something to do with Google?
<dragon> oh, VMWare.
<MarkDude> He may have the hookup for a meeting spot in the City for Jan - Feb
 * MarkDude is helping him with the CLS dinner at the Bohemian Loft
<MarkDude> Nixie may be the hostess
<MarkDude> Master Wang may lead the group in a Tea Ceremony
<MarkDude> ^^^ by far one of the coolest sentences I have ever typed on IRC
<MarkDude> lol
<outofjungle> for dragon: http://blog.flickr.net/en/2010/11/24/let-there-be-dragons/
<pleia2> wow, in the 40s in sf, chilly :)
<MarkDude> pleia2,  left in time
<pleia2> weather.com says 49 in sf, 43 here
<pleia2> so a little chillier, but not by much!
<MarkDude> It is expected where you are
<pleia2> yeah
<MarkDude> People are freaking out here
<pleia2> hehe
<MarkDude> Like chicken little style
 * MarkDude is glad he did not go to work today
<MarkDude> idiots here cant drive with icy cold conditions
<MarkDude> pleia2, glad to hear that TSA did not get to 2nd base with you :D
<MarkDude> yay for metal detectors
<pleia2> MarkDude: thanks :)
<seidos> hey MarkDude, since you're not going to work today, if you have some free time these videos are pretty cool:  http://www.youtube.com/user/theRSAorg#p/c/39BF9545D740ECFF/0/u6XAPnuFjJc
<seidos> i like the "tragedy and farce" videos
<seidos> correction:  video
<dragon> MarkDude: Bohemian Loft looks interesting. I'm probably available to volunteer for CLS as well.
<dragon> outofjungle: nice pics!
<MarkDude> Some people are meeting there tonight - but I cant make it
<dragon> MarkDude: what's the event?
<MarkDude> Planning for the dinner
<MarkDude> Abbas had hoped I could make it- but I am having vehicle issues
<MarkDude> http://www.ustream.tv/channel/severed-fifth-live-in-the-studio
<MarkDude> Jono is doing a Ustream now, talking about his loud music
<dragon> I was hoping to see the whole band.
<MarkDude> Dec 3rd in the City
<dragon> cool
<MarkDude> at club Cocomo
<MarkDude> dragon, Im eating the last of the chick peas, mmm mmm good
<dragon> MarkDude: glad you like it
<MarkDude> Good stuff
<MarkDude> My new gotchi >>> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2424094/FuManchuGotchi%20sm.png
<akk> You look so evil.
<MarkDude> I do?
<dragon> I came to remember the day after that I forgot to add the most interesting of the spices to the chick peas.
<dragon> It'd have been 3x epic.
<MarkDude> Still worked tho
<dragon> yep, it was nice
<akk> Any android experts? Or is that too off-topic?
 * akk is wondering if an android 1.6 tablet would be a stupid choice at this point, too old and orphaned
<dragon> akk: I'm no expert, but might be able to Chime in.
<dragon> akk: Has anyone installed a newer version of Android on it through unofficial means?
<akk> It looks like no. I haven't found any references to anyone upgrading android on any tablet beyond manufacturer-provided firmware.
<nhaines> akk: that would be a horrible idea and you shouldn't do it.
<akk> That sounds pretty clear! Thanks, nhaines.
<dragon> We're looking forward to Android 3.0 tablets in very near future.
<akk> Darn, since there don't seem to be any 2.x devices in the size range I'd like.
<akk> I want a 4-5" screen, and the Archos 5 was looking interesting, but it's Android 1.6.
<nhaines> I'm excited because it looks like I'm going to get to write another in print magazine article.
<akk> woo nhaines -- what magazine?
<nhaines> akk: Linux Identity Magazine again.
#ubuntu-us-ca 2010-11-25
<MarkDude> http://www.gidgetkitchen.org/ has new content, and the wiki no longer has ads for Russian viagra, yay
<seidos> my website is down...i need to find some cash so i can afford some hosting
<seidos> i asked a friend, but he hasn't replied, so i don't think he's a big fan of the idea.  well, he might still be thinking it over i guess
<seidos> hmmm, i think a non-profit that does work for donations would be cool
<dragon> MarkDude: that looks like the same old wordpress
<dragon> with new content, yes
<jdeslip> nhaines: How do you like your G2 compared to the N1?
<nhaines> jdeslip: it's a bit heavier, slightly thicker. Great keyboard and faster response! I'm thrilled with it.
<biosshadow> dragon i work in 3003 bunker hill lane
<MarkDude> dragon, it is
<MarkDude> last update was march
<dragon> biosshadow: alright, I'm at 2421 Mission College Blvd.
<dragon> outofjungle is in middle of those two places
<biosshadow> ahh ok
<MarkDude> aaditya, ping
<dragon> MarkDude: pong
<dragon> à² _à² 
<MarkDude> Sorry relatives from down south
<MarkDude> Distracted
<MarkDude> Happy Turkey Day to most of you
<MarkDude> For the rest, Happy Tofu if you happen to be vegetarians
<akk> gobble gobble
 * MarkDude has relatives visting here, they are sleeping now- we will be headed to see more relatives in Santa Cruz
<MarkDude> Meeting some new in-laws
<MarkDude> What sort of people call t wish a happy thanksgiving at 9 am?
 * MarkDude 's cousin is not to happy about that
<akk> Seems a bit extreme.
<MarkDude> Yes it is
<MarkDude> akk can you see this page? http://blogs.fedoraproject.org/wp/fifthpillar/hackergotchis/
<akk> "Sorry, no posts matched your criteria."
<MarkDude> Hmmm
<MarkDude> akk can you try again?
<akk> Ah, now I see pictures of some guy who keeps changing his facial hair style. :)
<MarkDude> Yep, thats my gotchis I have so far
<akk> I think I see why the fu manchu one looks "mean" -- it's like a big frown compared to the others.
 * MarkDude was thinking I look more contemplative than anything
<MarkDude> Then again I keep hearing I look like a biker or a made-man
<biosshadow-m> Hello
<pleia2> awww, maybe next year I do thanksgiving at the sf zoo! http://www.flickr.com/photos/sfzoo/sets/72157625467729768/
<pleia2> lemurs with thanksgiving noms :)
<nhaines> Heh, cute!
#ubuntu-us-ca 2010-11-26
 * DarkwingDuck sighs
<DarkwingDuck> nUboon2Age: Ping
<jtatum> zoos are cool
<pleia2> Turn left at Moose Hill Rd
<pleia2> ^^ one of the directions to my mother's in maine
<pleia2> ah maine :) it's so cute with it's moose hill roads
<DarkwingDuck> lol
<DarkwingDuck> hey akk
<akk> Hiya DarkwingDuck.
 * akk just finished dispatching a DarkwingTurkey
<DarkwingDuck> :D
<DarkwingDuck> nUboon2Age: PING
<jdeslip> Happy Black-Friday everyone :)
#ubuntu-us-ca 2010-11-27
<grantbow> jdeslip: I use AndChat on Android for IRC which works.
<jdeslip> Time to put up christmas lights.  We are using arduino's to make some interactivity this year :)
<jdeslip> And using ubuntu to program :)
<DarkwingDuck> :D Sweet
<MarkDude> Very cool, are you making any video of the process jdeslip ?
<jdeslip> MarkDude: Not yet.  Maybe I should.  I will of the final result at least :)
#ubuntu-us-ca 2010-11-28
<Eureka> wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/Partimus edited
<MarkDude> Which is the official logbot?
<Eureka> wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/10December05 edited
<Eureka> wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/Partimus edited
<baldo_> hello all
<DarkwingDuck> greetings
<baldo_> hah  i used to love that cartoon
<DarkwingDuck> :)
<Eureka> wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/Partimus edited
<MarkDude> pleia2,  how about hashtag #partimus?
<pleia2> that would be good
 * pleia2 stuck in new jersey
<pleia2> nooooo
<DarkwingDuck> stuck in New Jersey? You poor thing.
<pleia2> so far my flight is still marked as "delayed" but it's been over an hour, they tried to fix the broken plane, are now trying to find a different plane altogether
<DarkwingDuck> dang
<pleia2> thank goodness for thethering through my phone :)
<DarkwingDuck> :) although connectbox/irssi works nice too
<pleia2> yeah, I'll switch to that once my mini9 finishes its battery (hopefully we fly before that!)
<MarkDude> Double dose
<MarkDude> Stuck waiting for a plane
<MarkDude> But worse- its in Jersey
<pleia2> ok, officially board of this airport now
<pleia2> board? bored
<akk> bored because you want to board?
<pleia2> indeed :)
<MarkDude> Still throwing birds?
#ubuntu-us-ca 2011-11-21
<philipballew> Is the meeting still tonight. I have not gotten an email?
<pleia2> philipballew: sorry for the late meeting reminder, I turned the relax switch on high this weekend and forgot
<philipballew> pleia2, It's all good. I just was hoping I didnt mess up my days. I usually do
<pleia2> haha, me too, calendars++
<philipballew> to much this weekend for me. 9 hour drive this tuesday night and test all monday and tuesday. But thanksgiving coming up. so chance to see some family
<pleia2> coming up here for thanksgiving?
<pleia2> my aunt was supposed to come visit but she had to cancel, it's weird having no plans for thanksgiving now
<Darkwing> there is a meeting tonight?
<pleia2> yep
<Darkwing> Woot
<philipballew> yeah pleia2 Leaving san diego at 6 pm and driving all night. We have all our family from the bay area coming to Auburn for a party so I figured i'd come for the food
<philipballew> well. I told the parents I was coming to see them. I figure it was the good thing to say
<pleia2> philipballew: wow, quite a drive, good that there is turkey at the end of it
<pleia2> lol
<pleia2> "I am coming to see your food^W^Wyou
<philipballew> I realized 2 weeks ago I had not talked to them in about 2 months, so I figured it was a good thing to say. lol
<Darkwing> Going to be a quick meeting IMO
<philipballew> Soon were gonna have to plan for scale probably
<Darkwing> Aye
<pleia2> Meeting time!
<pleia2> who all is here for the meeting?
 * eps waves
<akk> o/
<pleia2> ok, so we don't have an agenda so it's just announcements and things
<pleia2> anyone have anything? :)
<eps> Talk about what might or might not be happening in December (Ubuntu Hours, etc.).
<pleia2> http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-california shows upcoming events, which looks to be most of the regularly scheduled hours
<pleia2> our team meetings are scheduled for the 4th and 18th, which I'm inclined to keep as scheduled, january 1st maybe not though
<eps> I'm assuming nothing interesting is happening on the 1st. Not even the Rose Parade.
<pleia2> ok, we can ask others and see what they think
<Darkwing> Sup
<pleia2> philipballew, Darkwing did you guys want to say anything about scale?
<Darkwing> It's awesome and come join us!
<pleia2> the call for Ubucon speakers is still out there too: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-us-ca/2011-October/001849.html
<pleia2> oh, I created a page for Scale too: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/Scale10x
<philipballew> I might be speaking at scale. beyond that i'll be at the booth working. will be be getting exhibitor passes like last year?
<pleia2> Darkwing?
<Darkwing> AFAIK We will.
<Darkwing> I will be working with Gareth and get us passes. Not sure yet how many we will have but, let's start gathering what we want and what all we want to have at the booth.
<pleia2> ok, can you look into that, and how people will need to register if using the exhibitor pass?
 * Darkwing nods
<pleia2> great :)
<pleia2> well I think that's pretty much it
<pleia2> any other announcements or anything?
<philipballew> sounds good to me!
<pleia2> Happy Ubuntu Community Appreciation Day :) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UCADay
<pleia2> so thanks for coming akk, eps, Darkwing and philipballew!
<jyo> Did I just miss the meeting?
<pleia2> there is still time to add comments :)
<pleia2> ok, meeting over now, off to do more house things!
<philipballew> Have fun pleia2 !
<MarkDude> Morning California!
<MarkDude> So there are no planned Ubuntu Hours? http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-california/meetings
 * MarkDude is putting together sumthin for Bay Area MLs and wants to include Ubuntu stuff
<MarkDude> http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-california/events
<MarkDude> My bad they are events, not meetings
<Darkwing> sup Mark
<MarkDude> Hey there Darkwing DUCK
<MarkDude> Screw Disney
<MarkDude> Every time I see your nick
<MarkDude> I add DUCK
<MarkDude> Walt Disney- in the NECK - I tell ya
<MarkDude> in the neck
<MarkDude> Anyway, how are you doin'?
<akk> news flash! Disney is evil!
<Darkwing> lol
<Darkwing> iy was funny at uds... I boycotted downtown disney
<Darkwing> ok... this is sweet... quasselcore on my server
<Darkwing> quasseldroid is sweeeeet
<MarkDude> Can you proof sumthin for me Darkwing ?
<Darkwing> yeah.
<MarkDude> Cool
<MarkDude> Give me about 10 minutes
<Darkwing> Sure :)
#ubuntu-us-ca 2011-11-22
<nhaines> pleia2: Passes for SCALE work the way they have for the past four years.  Register but don't pay, and the SCALE Exhibitor Kit will include a coupon code.  Whoever's managing that for the team can collect all the registration IDs for the team and use the coupon to register them for free.
<nhaines> As before, we'll get 5 passes for the booth.
<pleia2> nhaines: thanks :)
 * nhaines 's registration number is 16.
<MarkDude> Severed Fifth show Dec 17th in Alameda, who wants to rock?
<iheartubuntu> good morning :)
<BotenAnna> does anyone here know how one might put ascii escape sequences in a read command?
<BotenAnna> for example, I'm doing this to make a prompt red to attract attention:
<BotenAnna> echo -e "\033[1;31m" && read -p 'Press Ctrl+C NOW if files did not download correctly. Otherwise, press the any key to continue.' && echo -e "\033[0m"
<BotenAnna> but if you press ctrl+c it's going to not display the ascii reset sequence :X
<akk> Does the user's input have to be in red too? I'd just make the prompt in red, and change the color back at the end of that echo before the read.
<Faqtotum> echo -e "\033[1;31mPress Ctrl+C NOW if files did not download correctly. Otherwise, press the any key to continue.\033[0m" && read
<Faqtotum> duh
<BotenAnna> Faqtotum: :facepalm:
<BotenAnna> it's always something simple :D
<Faqtotum> echo -e "\e[1;31mPress Ctrl+C NOW if files did not download correctly. Otherwise, press the any key to continue.\e[0m" && read
<Faqtotum> shorter
<BotenAnna> https://plus.google.com/103184405956510785630/posts/ZzztLskr2rV i guess we're having a charm school for nerds on the internet?
<nhaines> BotenAnna: needs more blink code.
<BotenAnna> nhaines: maybe for version 2.0
<BotenAnna> freakin bash scripting it does everything so obnoxiously different than anything im used to :(
<BotenAnna> how do you do a simple math operation and assign it to a variable?! WHO KNOWS????
<BotenAnna>         RNUM = $RANDOM % 5
<BotenAnna> apparently it wants to murder me in my sleep for trying something obvious like this
<pleia2> bash is not so good for math
<pleia2> typically you'd call something like bc
<BotenAnna> i just need to come up with a random number an assign it to a thing D:
<pleia2> ah
<BotenAnna> http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1387497 (ãï½mÂ´)ã ~â»ââ»
<BotenAnna> so not sure what this wants from me
<BotenAnna> ./test.shell: line 4: [: RNUM: integer expression expected
<BotenAnna> how is -ne 5 not an integer expression asdfasdadsfd
 * BotenAnna is reminded every time she tries to learn shell scripting why she gave up last time 
 * BotenAnna gives up, writes in perl isntead
#ubuntu-us-ca 2011-11-23
<Faqtotum> BotenAnna: RNUM=$[ $RANDOM % 5 ]
<Faqtotum> no spaces around =
<Faqtotum> spaces everywhere else
<pleia2> I think everyone leaves SF for Thanksgiving
<greg-g> not me!
<greg-g> we're kind of forbidden of doing so, with the birth due date around dec 10th :)
<pleia2> yeah :)
<pleia2> we're here too, but we're going away on friday for a couple days
<greg-g> cool
 * MarkDude met an Ubntu user having some issues last night at coffee shop
<MarkDude> Helped him by lettign know it looked fine- He had Miny and Ubuntu
 * MarkDude pointed him to Ubuntu Hour SF
<philipballew> I just opened a server I have had running alone for 3 months. running fine, yet there was a nice size spider living inside...
#ubuntu-us-ca 2011-11-24
<jyo> Yay, I saw my irssi/screen box for the first time today.
<sadsun> whats that?
#ubuntu-us-ca 2011-11-25
<philipballew> Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!
<nhaines> Reminder: birds are dinosaurs.
<philipballew> Does that mean they are as scary as a t-rex nhaines
<nhaines> It means that you may have sat down to roast dino tonight.
<philipballew> I wonder if putting killed a dinosaur on a resume would look good... lol
<broder> whatever they are they're delicious
 * philipballew agrees and high fives broder 
<broder> happy thanksgiving :)
<bkerensa> happy thanksgiving!
#ubuntu-us-ca 2011-11-26
<philipballew> hey pleia2 you got a sec?
<philipballew> had a network question?
#ubuntu-us-ca 2011-11-27
<bkerensa> Hello All
<bkerensa> So I noticed Ubuntu California has some sort of Origami CD cover thing? Can Ubuntu Oregon gank that and any explaination on how to fold it?
<jtatum> bkerensa: feel free to fork the cd cover :) it's in a bzr repo if you haven't found it already. as for folding, i'm not especially good at it but if you fold along the lines, you'll eventually see that one of the ways you can tuck things in makes it kind of stay closed.
<nhaines> bkerensa: There's folding instructions on this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/CDSleeves as well as a link to PDF/SVG diagrams of folding instructions.  The sleeves are licensed WTFPL, so yes, you can take it and run with it.
<bkerensa> ahh cool :D
#ubuntu-us-ca 2012-11-19
<pleia2> meeting in ~10 minutes
<grantbow> w00t made it
<grantbow> hello from buttonwilow, lol
<grantbow> buttonwillow
<pleia2> hey grantbow
<philipballew> grantbow, buttonwillow is nice
<philipballew> drive through often
<pleia2> hehe
<grantbow> lol
<pleia2> #startmeeting
<darthrobot`> Meeting started Mon Nov 19 03:00:14 2012 UTC.  The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<darthrobot`> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<pleia2> ok, who all is here for the meeting? :)
<philipballew> here
<grantbow> aloha
 * eps is not entirely here
<josheboy> I am
<pleia2> great, welcome everyone!
<pleia2> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/12November18
<darthrobot`> Title: [CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/12November18 - Ubuntu Wiki]
<pleia2> our agenda is empty :)
<pleia2> I guess I can give some updates
<pleia2> I've shipped out CDs to San Diego, Lake Forest and Los Angeles
<pleia2> s/CDs/DVDs
<eps> :-)
<pleia2> I haven't heard back from the silicon valley folks about DVDs, but hopefully they'll find time to reply so I can get some down there to San Jose and Mt View
<philipballew> so I was able to hand out several of these already
<pleia2> we do have some 12.04 CDs left over too, this week I'll go through them to make sure our wiki is up to date, they're LTS so it's ok to have leftovers :)
<pleia2> philipballew: yay!
<grantbow> LTS = good for newbies
<josheboy> <--- newbie
<pleia2> and servers, companies, etc ;)
<philipballew> We here in San Diego had our Ubuntu hour this Thursday and had 3 people besides myself. I have a few lts here I still hand out as well.
<pleia2> josheboy: nice to have some new faces here :) welcome
<josheboy> Thanks much :)
 * philipballew high fives josheboy 
<kallecarl> Hello, new to the meeting want to invite Ubuntu folks to http://www.qtdeveloperdays.com/northamerica/ Dec 5 -7. Jono confirmed tonight that he will be on the panel about open source tablets
<darthrobot`> Title: [Qt Developer Days]
<pleia2> kallecarl: cool, thanks!
<pleia2> kallecarl: is there an announcement you can forward to the mailing list?
<kallecarl> list address
<grantbow> nice
<kallecarl> ?
<kallecarl> grantbow: howdy
<pleia2> kallecarl: ubuntu-us-ca@lists.ubuntu.com
<kallecarl> pleia2: not really an announcement I guess
<kallecarl> just the URL for the conference
<kallecarl> will do though
<pleia2> kallecarl: ok, thanks
<eps> Isn't it horrifically expensive to attend?
<grantbow> nice adjective
<pleia2> hehe
<grantbow> Santa Clara with a free three day pass? Not too horrific.
<pleia2> another thing I wanted to mention is how we plan events
<philipballew> kallecarl, If you are advertising it here, can LoCo members here get in for free or a good price?
<kallecarl> eps: there are a few complimentary passes
<pleia2> we've gone from having pretty strict rules to having essentally none, which some people are taking advantage of now - to the extent of sometimes not even telling the rest of the team they're having what they call Ubuntu California events ;(
<pleia2> :(
<kallecarl> please email me at carlsymons@gmail.com
<philipballew> pleia2, This is a problem.
<pleia2> so today I created a wiki page to help people understand the minimum requirements for hosting an event (and akk helped me clean it up): https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/HowTo
<darthrobot`> Title: [CaliforniaTeam/Projects/HowTo - Ubuntu Wiki]
<pleia2> this is now linked on our Projects page
<grantbow> sounds good
<philipballew> +1
<pleia2> should be helpful for for all of us really :) we forget how many resources we have!
<grantbow> true
<pleia2> it's a wiki, so please feel free to make edits as needed, that's really my first stab at it
<pleia2> I'm hoping this will be enough to solve the problem of rogue events ;)
<eps> Speaking of Projects ...
<eps> SCALE 11x -- http://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale11x/
<darthrobot`> Title: [SCALE 11x]
<pleia2> oh gosh, that's coming up fast
<eps> Hello!
<pleia2> I'm skipping this year :(
<eps> Philip?
<philipballew> eps, Ill be there
<philipballew> I can run the booth for the loco if needed
<philipballew> since I live down here somewhat and not
<eps> So, I guess it goes on the Projects page.
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> can copy the 10x page probably and adjust accordingly :)
<pleia2> also follow up with nhaines to see if there will be an Ubucon too
<philipballew> probably nhaines and iheartubuntu will help with all the people from their hours
<grantbow> another Ubucon would be great
<pleia2> grantbow: yeah :)
<eps> Find some discount codes for attendees, and figure out what you need from people who are interested in volunteering
<philipballew> I'm gonna set up a page for hotel/ride sharing for people so were all not booked in out own hotels if we dont want to
<pleia2> philipballew: that's great!
<grantbow> eps: Volunteering? Thanks for that ;-)
<pleia2> let me know if you have any questions logistically, I am not sure who is working with Gareth to arrange the booth
<philipballew> the hilton is somewhat $$ compared to ones a few blocks away as well. and there is parking around for people driving from sf
<eps> grantbow: Would you prefer ... conscription?
<pleia2> I just can't attend because I have too much happening this year (changing jobs, getting married)
 * philipballew still wants to see a "scale or bust" sign on a car
<pleia2> turns out you can't actually take 2 months a year off for conferences and honeymoon... ;)
<philipballew> :)
<mikestewart> honeymoon at SCaLE!
<mikestewart> :-P
 * mikestewart back to luring
 * mikestewart back to lurking
<philipballew> I have a good thing to mention
<philipballew> Our loco member dave (iheartubuntu) came out of the woodwork this week to pull a victory for Ubuntu/linux with that netflix app he helped make. So whenever you see the news about that, know it was made possible from someone who came from our loco.
<pleia2> philipballew: oh yes, good catch
<grantbow> excellent!
<pleia2> mikestewart: getting married in April :) and I'd like to go somewhere more exciting than LA ;)
<josheboy> oh wow. that's pretty cool
<pleia2> http://www.iheartubuntu.com/2012/11/ppa-for-netflix-desktop-app.html
<darthrobot`> Title: [PPA for Netflix Desktop App | iheartubuntu]
<pleia2> the Ubuntu Developer Summit will probably happen during my honeymoon, but he wasn't thrilled with that honeymoon idea
<philipballew> I want to see a plenary session where you get married by markdude pleia2
<eps> Do we know where the next UDS will be held?
<pleia2> philipballew: hahahah
<pleia2> eps: nope :\
<grantbow> hopefully Oakland
<pleia2> ok, anyone else have anything?
<grantbow> How about shirts? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/Shirts
<darthrobot`> Title: [CaliforniaTeam/Projects/Shirts - Ubuntu Wiki]
<pleia2> grantbow: oh yes! what were your thoughts here?
<kallecarl> pleia2: i didn't sign up for the mailing list. Just mailed the address you gave
<kallecarl> the QtDevDays announce
<pleia2> kallecarl: thanks, I'll let it through
<grantbow> Let's have an art contest again and get some more printed.
<philipballew> grantbow, I like this idea. If we get them made up by scale we can pass them out there
<grantbow> Canonical colors have changed so at least updating colors will be good.
<grantbow> both Canonical and Community colors
<eps> No more aubergine? I'm shocked! Shocked, I say!
<pleia2> so are we proposing a full logo redesign
<philipballew> who will print them grantbow ?
<grantbow> yes
<kallecarl> at LinuxCon, there were the coolest shirts. Not screened like a big hunk of plastic but rather dyed into the shirt
<pleia2> eps: yes aubergine, but we haven't updated our stuff for even that change...
<kallecarl> drivemg.com is the contact
<pleia2> eps: our logo is still the old old old ubuntu logo
<grantbow> our colors for the old shirt were pre-aubergine
<philipballew> IDEA! Hold a contest from the ml to get design ideas, and the winner gets a free shirt.
<eps> Is there a URL with design guidelines?
<pleia2> philipballew: we can't really promise that :( no one to $$$$ for the shirts
<grantbow> If we design it we'll find someone to print it. Maybe the person that did it last time.
 * mikestewart can't imagine much more *exciting* than LA ... but ya, wouldn't honeymoon here (or SCaLE) either.
<philipballew> true.
<pleia2> (unless you're volunteering :))
<grantbow> Ernest Rogers
<grantbow> we can ask him
<pleia2> mikestewart: maybe exotic is the right word (boo more california ;))
<philipballew> pleia2, I can look into printing them at a shop near me here if I have some funds
<josheboy> I live in LA, and I took my very recent honeymoon far away from here, haha. And no laptops either. It was very refreshing :p
<philipballew> so if people pre order them, but not sure if people would want that
<grantbow> no reason we can't do multiple printings too
<philipballew> agreed
<grantbow> though probably not necessary yet
<pleia2> ok, so can someone take an action item to put together a wiki page for this new design contest and organize it on list?
<philipballew> yes
<pleia2> josheboy: congrats!
<grantbow> I can organize it
<pleia2> ok great :)
<grantbow> and do a wiki page
<josheboy> pleia2: Thanks. And congrats on the near future nuptuals :)
<pleia2> josheboy: thank you :)
<grantbow> +1
<pleia2> wow, this was a productive meeting!
<pleia2> anything else?
<grantbow> not bad for a blank agenda
<pleia2> indeed
<eps> Other than not ordering purple and orange M&Ms, what other disasters should I know about?
 * mikestewart lives in long beach.  
<grantbow> eps: please propose a design in the contest that is soon to come.
<pleia2> eps: do they have purple?
<mikestewart> did you guys firgure out whos working with Gareth on SCaLE booth?
<philipballew> mikestewart, come down to san diego!
<josheboy> mikestewart: I live in North Hollywood
<pleia2> philipballew: will you contact Gareth to see who he has down for the ubuntu booth contact?
<mikestewart> philipballew, san diego is an awesome place to visit.  as is sf bay area.
<philipballew> pleia2, will do
<pleia2> great
<philipballew> mikestewart, all the more reason to come here and say hello
<philipballew> and get a free ubuntu cd
<mikestewart> philipballew, I wouldn't mind being backup help for the booth
<eps> pleia2: www.mymms.com (and yes, they are appropriate for weddings)
 * mikestewart is an organizer of #drupal-la  
<philipballew> mikestewart, yeah, Lets do that.
<mikestewart> we'll have a booth, too
<grantbow> Oh, I burned some 12.04 and special 12.10 CD size images. I will let the list know when I get a chance to test the 12.10 CDs.
<pleia2> eps: just proposed pink m&m wedding favors and got a funny look, then he goes "whatever you want, hon"
<pleia2> mikestewart: cool
<mikestewart> philipballew, where are you in sandiego?
<philipballew> alright. I gtg get back to my homework
<philipballew> ah
<philipballew> mikestewart, Point Loma
<pleia2> grantbow: cool, thanks
<kallecarl> pleia2: whatever you want, hon...already trained well
<josheboy> "whatever you want, hon" is the perfect soon-to-be groom answer
<pleia2> josheboy: +1
<pleia2> kallecarl: too
<pleia2> :)
 * mikestewart is not sure how close that is to stone brewery  -- a major reason to get in the car for the SD trip.  besides legoland for the kids
<pleia2> ok, we can wrap up this meeting :)
<grantbow> great meeting! thanks for chairing pleia2
<pleia2> thanks everyone
<kallecarl> thank you
<pleia2> #endmeeting
<darthrobot`> Meeting ended Mon Nov 19 03:31:57 2012 UTC.
<darthrobot`> Minutes:        http://ihas.5cat.com/~darthrobot/ubuntu-us-ca/2012/ubuntu-us-ca.2012-11-19-03.00.moin.txt
<grantbow> thanks all for participating! See you next time.
<eps> I'm looking at http://design.ubuntu.com/ and I'm not seeing any "new" colors
<darthrobot`> Title: [Ubuntu Brand Guidelines]
<eps> Nothing's jumping out at me on ubuntu-art
<pleia2> eps: we tried to explain it to you, our logo is from years ago we haven't updated for the purple and orange rebranding from a few years ago
<pleia2> so it's not "new" - it's the rebranding where the orange, yellow and red went away in 2009
<pleia2> er, 2008
<eps> Oh, I thought there was a *third* iteration. :-(
<pleia2> nope, we're still on the 1st, we'd like to get to the 2nd (current)
<eps> No, of the "official" color scheme.
<pleia2> ah, well our logo isn't using the current one
<eps> Are we being pressured to change?
<pleia2> no
<pleia2> getting our logo in sync with the rest of the ubuntu project is a project proposal, aligned with the intention to get more shirts printed
<pleia2> we don't have to, but it does make sense
<eps> What we've got is pretty awesome. Change for the sake of change is not progress.
<pleia2> it's not for the sake of change, it's for brand solidarity
<pleia2> and we don't have to, you're welcome to propose that we stick with the old design :)
<eps> So, I'm not going to be able to talk you into an "8-bit" version? ;-)
<pleia2> maybe we'll even include it when the team votes
<pleia2> haha
<nUboon2age> I wouldn't insist on it, but I do have to say its nice to have a logo that uses the classic Ubuntu look.
<nUboon2age> we had the three color look before Google did :-)
<nUboon2age> I got a Google pin along with a chrome book the other day. :-)
<pleia2> nUboon2age: can you please check your email? I've been trying to get ahold of you or someone in SV for almost a week now and no one is replying :(
<pleia2> need to get some DVDs down your way
<eps> When I was a kid, I used to read Scientific American. One of the regular features was "50 years ago" and "100 years ago" using typography reminiscent of those eras. It would be cool to do "Ubuntu through the ages" ... kind of a revisionist history, going back to the age of clay tablets.
<nUboon2age> oh, sure.  sorry I didn't see it.
<pleia2> nUboon2age: first emails on Tuesday, another today about event requirements
<nUboon2age> okay I found the email just now pleia2
<pleia2> nUboon2age: great, just need to figure out how to get some DVDs down there
<pleia2> we have fewer this time because they're DVDs, so I want to make sure you guys get some before they're gone
<nUboon2age> btw, I went over to the re-computer.org (kinda along the lines of partimus) location this afternoon with Debbie and met Aaron Castle
<pleia2> cool, never heard of them
<nUboon2age> i told him about this team and urged him to join us
<pleia2> yay :)
<pleia2> we don't actually do recycling or resale, partimus just puts donated computers in schools
<pleia2> we work with some recyclers though, that's where we get some of our parts
<pleia2> ah, time for me to run off to dinner!
<pleia2> have a good night :)
<nUboon2age> and he'll be holding a gathering next Sunday 3-5pm
<pleia2> cool, something we can attend..or?
<pleia2> Sunday is BerkeleyLUG and I promised a few folks I'd finally make it up
<nUboon2age> most definitely!  1000 Amphlet i think
<pleia2> but if there are events in the future :)
<pleia2> ok, actually going out the door now
<pleia2> later
<pleia2> oh and please send a mail to the list if you wish other loco folks to get involved! ;)
<nUboon2age> 1000 S. Amphlett Blvd, San Mateo
<nUboon2age> yup, i was telling him about the e-mail list and he'll do the announcing
<nUboon2age> jtatum missed ya at Ubuntu Hour: SV Akkana, Dave, Debbie, Mark Roest and three fellows who are Ubuntians anyway but hadn't heard of the get together:-)  Lyz was wanting you to make sure you got the dates onto the LoCo directory.
<nUboon2age> and that you made sure to announce them on the e-mail list
<nUboon2age> I told her that its your baby and i didn't want to interrupt whatever your process is for all that.
<nUboon2age> hey arno_ , good to see you here.  :-)
#ubuntu-us-ca 2012-11-20
<toddc> Fry's electronics is selling linux computers!          http://www.frys.com/product/7126262?site=sa:adpages%20page:P17_FRI%20date:111612
<darthrobot> Title: [FRYS.comÂ |Â ZOTAC]
<philipballew> toddc, I have seen that there.
<pleia2> I think nUboon2age might have bought one
<pleia2> philipballew: have some time to do post-meeting updates on the wiki and stuff?
<philipballew> pleia2, sometime after today.
<pleia2> ok
<philipballew> I have class till 8 today then fly to sac at 10 tonight, but tomorrow I dont see why not.
 * philipballew loves plane rides
<pleia2> alright, thanks
<pleia2> thanksgiving with family?
<philipballew> Yeah, Gonna go to Auburn for the week, but on Thanksgiving visit the Grandmother at her house in Napa.
<philipballew> What are your plans for this Thursday pleia2 ?
<pleia2> CC meeting at 9AM ;) we have Thanksgiving lunch plans at The Beach Chalet, then staying home to work on wedding and home stuff
<philipballew> oh nice. Hopefully that is relaxing for you.
<pleia2> it'll be a nice day off from work anyway, we have a lot to do personally WRT wedding and all
<pleia2> my boss snagged me to work on Friday (boo) because we're training someone and need all the time we can find before I find a new job
<philipballew> ah, Weddings are stressful.
<akk> Yeah, they are.
<kdub> anyone try the nexus 7 build yet?
<pleia2> hopefully s/Weddings/the planning of weddings :)
<akk> The actual wedding is usually stressful too. But worth it.
<philipballew> I would if I owned one kdub
<kdub> i have one, but i'm lazy
<kdub> :)
<pleia2> only played with the ones at UDS (my roomie had one), it was exciting but at the time not practical
<pleia2> it's slow and the UI still isn't quite up to speed, too many tiny spots to click
<akk> I want ubuntu for nook touch, or kobo. :)
<pleia2> they're starting with nexus 7 to work the kinks out since the n7 is cheap and widely available internationally
<akk> I'm a little dubious of ubuntu on any tablet, because ubuntu traditionally hasn't been concerned with either speed or battery life
<akk> ... but I hope I'm wrong
<akk> It would be especially great if tablets actually became a reason for ubuntu to care about those things.
<pleia2> there is a ton of focus on battery life for these, one of the recent reports on it: http://smackerelofopinion.blogspot.com/2012/11/non-linear-characteristics-in-draining.html
<darthrobot> Title: [A Smackerel of Opinion: Non linear characteristics in a draining battery on the Nexus 7]
<akk> Hmm, powerstat sounds interesting, but I don't see it in aptitude search.
<pleia2> it's in 12.10
<akk> I'm not surprised that battery measurements are unreliable -- pretty much assumed that (sadly).
<akk> It's not an easy thing to measure.
<toddc> kdub a buddy installed ubuntu on nexus 7 on Saturday but removed it a hour later due to some KB issues but he is a arch user and unity hater. I did not have time to test it before he removed it
<kdub> akk, i'd guess its using a kernel for android though, so at least it'll pick up some battery life there
<akk> Really, ubuntu for nexus uses an android kernel?
<kdub> just a guess... seems the easiest route
 * kdub checks
<toddc> I doubt it
<toddc> I did see some rotation issues and I cons were way to small to click but I wish I would have had time to play with it before he wiped it
<kdub> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Nexus7/Kernel says its stock, but they have patches
<darthrobot> Title: [Nexus7/Kernel - Ubuntu Wiki]
 * kdub mulls applying for membership...
<kdub> cant hurt i spose
<pleia2> kdub: pro tip: get testimonials :) like from philip about ubuntu hours!
<kdub> i have  two already from a while back
<pleia2> ah good
<pleia2> kdub: I'd suggest adding what you worked on at UDS (types of sessions attended? take any work items?)
<kdub> we'll just see if its good enough this time i spose https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KevinDuBois :)
<darthrobot> Title: [KevinDuBois - Ubuntu Wiki]
<kdub> maybe 4th time's the charm ;-)
<locodir-user> hi, i been trying to watch netflx, but for some reason i can't doit, anyone with the same problem?
<toddc> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/11/how-to-use-netflix-on-ubuntu   but I have not tried it yet but let us know
<raevol> oooooh snap
<raevol> just had my first unity snafu
<raevol> was in my winxp virtual machine, hit super, and tried to search for notepad
<raevol> well played mark shuttleworth, well played
<kdub> i like how unity search is a bit smarter in 12.10
<kdub> eg email results in thunderbird showing up
<raevol> hmm i always remove thunderbird
<pleia2> toddc: david andrews (iheartubuntu) is part of our team :D
<locodir-user> anyone know how to use netflix in ubuntu?
<pleia2> there isn't an officially supported way, but http://www.iheartubuntu.com/2012/11/ppa-for-netflix-desktop-app.html uses wine to run the Windows version of firefox which can run it
<darthrobot> Title: [PPA for Netflix Desktop App | iheartubuntu]
<toddc> pleia2: could not remember his nick thanks
<raevol> configuring conky is so annoying yet so fun
#ubuntu-us-ca 2012-11-21
<nUboon2Age> there will be an Ubuntu event to address the "digital divide" this Sunday in San Mateo 3-5pm at Re-Computer.org.  The announcement is at http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-california/2124/detail/ and at http://www.meetup.com/Ubuntu-SV/events/91900552/
<darthrobot> Title: [Let's Build Some 12.04 Desktops! | Ubuntu LoCo Team Portal]
<darthrobot> Title: [This group's content is available only to members - Ubuntu SV (Sunnyvale, CA) - Meetup]
<bkerensa> Happy Early Turkey Day
<bkerensa> :)
<pleia2> turkey day eve perhaps :)
<raevol> steam linux beta invite! eee!
<raevol> gotta get home from work T_T
<bkerensa> lol
<bkerensa> :D
#ubuntu-us-ca 2012-11-22
<raevol> http://imgur.com/L9vEb
<darthrobot> Title: [imgur: the simple image sharer]
<locodir-user> hi guys,  anyone knows how to create permissions to copy to a usb drive?
<akk> Is the usb drive vfat (windows/dos format), or a Unix/Linux format?
<locodir-user> i just format a usb drive and is asking me for permission to copy files
<akk> How did you format it?
<locodir-user> is ext2
<locodir-user> should format it in dos format
<locodir-user> ????
<akk> In ext2, you have normal Linux permissions. So the ownership and mode of the directory controls which users can write to it.
<akk> If you want everybody to be able to write to it, you can chmod 777 /path/to/directory
<akk> (might have to use sudo for that)
<locodir-user> yes, but in owner is root
<akk> Or if it'll always be used by you, you can sudo chown yourname /path/to/wherever
<akk> and then it'll be writable by your user.
<akk> Careful if you use multiple machines, though, you'll need to make sure your user ID is the same on all the machines.
<locodir-user> The folder "Untitled Folder" cannot be copied because you do not have permissions to create it in the destination.
<locodir-user> that's the message i have when i try copying to that usb
<akk> Sure, because it's root and you're not root and you haven't changed permissions or ownership.
<locodir-user> how can i change the permission??
<akk> Just like how another user would get an error trying to copy files into your home directory, or into /usr.
<akk> I just told you how, chmod.
<locodir-user> sudo chmod????
<akk> right, with sudo if it's owned by root
<akk> Your filemanager might have some way to do it with right-click, but I don't know how, and nobody else seems to be chiming in here.
<locodir-user> ok, i'll try, thank you :)
<locodir-user> anyone here???
<bkerensa> locodir-user: hi
<grantbow> Happy thanksgiving everyone
<pleia2> philballew: grantbow took care of the post-meeting checklist this week
<grantbow> most of it
<pleia2> (I know you said you would, so I wanted to give you a heads up :))
<pleia2> hey grantbow
<pleia2> happy thanksgiving :)
<grantbow> hey thanks, you too. I didn't get the log done yet.
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-us-ca to: Welcome to the Ubuntu California Local Community (LoCo) Team! | Website: http://ubuntu-california.org (has links to mailing list, forum, and more!) | Next Meeting: Sunday, December 2nd, 7:00pm PDT | This channel is publicly logged at irclogs.ubuntu.com | We have an unlogged channel at #ubuntu-us-ca-offtopic
<pleia2> topic sorted ;)
<grantbow> thanks. Can I get access to do that?
<pleia2> grantbow: when doing the log, best bet is to pull the .txt one from irclogs.ubuntu.com
<grantbow> ok
<pleia2> sure, I can add you to the ops list
<grantbow> tyvm
<pleia2> /msg chanserv topic #ubuntu-us-ca Welcome to the Ubuntu California Local Community (LoCo) Team! | Website: http://ubuntu-california.org (has links to mailing list, forum, and more!) | Next Meeting: Sunday, December 2nd, 7:00pm PDT | This channel is publicly logged at irclogs.ubuntu.com | We have an unlogged channel at #ubuntu-us-ca-offtopic
<darthrobot> Title: [Ubuntu California Team | California Team]
<pleia2> to change the topic
<grantbow> great, thanks
<pleia2> ah, I'll mention it here too! http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Lenovo+-+15.6%26%2334%3B+Laptop+-+2GB+Memory+-+320GB+Hard+Drive+-+Black/6733454.p
<darthrobot> Title: [Lenovo 15.6" Laptop 2GB Memory 320GB Hard Drive G585 - 59345756 - Best Buy]
<pleia2> for black friday fans out there, I own the G575, needs the proprietary amd drivers in 12.10 but otherwise works great in Ubuntu :)
<pleia2> and at $187.99 it's a steal
<pleia2> s/amd/ati
<pleia2> (and they're apt-gettable)
<pleia2> I paid $299 for my G575 during a sale
<grantbow> +1
<pleia2> I'd buy one as another test system, but I really need something with more processor
<pleia2> it's fine for day to day stuff, but I've been playing with virtualized systems
<pleia2> gets sloooow :)
<grantbow> the 580 is an intel, the 585 is an AMD. Nice.
<grantbow> I like AMD because they didn't create HDCP in the Blue Ray spec that is so evil! lol
<pleia2> lol
<grantbow> I put in my first blue ray disc into my new blue ray player and found I could no longer use my vga monitor to watch a movie! HDCP is evil.
<pleia2> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Asus+-+14%26%2334%3B+Laptop+-+4GB+Memory+-+320GB+Hard+Drive+-+Matte+Pink/6780111.p is adorable too, but I'm not sure about linux support
<darthrobot> Title: [Asus 14" Laptop 4GB Memory 320GB Hard Drive X401A-BHPDN37 - Best Buy]
<pleia2> haven't yet played with a system that ships with windows 8 and the evil involved there
<grantbow> yeah, coreboot part of UEFI
<pleia2> oh hey, it's time for me to leave for my turkey lunch
<pleia2> later all
<grantbow> later!
#ubuntu-us-ca 2012-11-23
<scientes> pleia2, did you go to the android nexus7 talk at uds?
<pleia2> scientes: there wasn't really a talk, but there was a great (and well-attended) Q&A session with the core team, I attended that
<scientes> supposedly dual-booting was discussed?
<scientes> i really want to do that
<pleia2> I don't remember any talk of that, but it wasn't really on my radar at the time so maybe I just didn't pay attention :)
<pleia2> in theory, this page is the FAQ generated from that Q&A session (plus additions since then): https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Nexus7/FAQ
<darthrobot> Title: [Nexus7/FAQ - Ubuntu Wiki]
<scientes> yeah it just says we don't care, aka "not planned at this time"
<grantbow> any thoughts on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/Shirts-2012 as I write the announcement email?
<darthrobot> Title: [CaliforniaTeam/Projects/Shirts-2012 - Ubuntu Wiki]
<pleia2> grantbow: were we going to do a logo redesign thing before the t-shirts?
<pleia2> or are we sticking with our bear logo (which everyone does seem to like :))
<grantbow> I think the shirt proposals can do either or just one.
<grantbow> If we get a good redesigned bear we can appropriate it out of a shirt design
<grantbow> I think our first priority is to print some shirts
<grantbow> good question though, I'll make it more clear
<pleia2> well, if we're planning on changing the logo that needs to be the first priority
<pleia2> don't want to print shirts and decide in January that we're doing a logo redesign
<pleia2> I think it's just confusing to conflate the two, designing a new logo impacts our entire team, our huge banner, websites, etc
<pleia2> sorry to be a pain, thanks for working on this :)
<grantbow> I think of shirts as an experiment. Don't we need more soon?
<grantbow> Scale?
<pleia2> yeah, we have a couple 2XLs, but that's it
<grantbow> If UDS is in Oakland again it would be really nice to have new shirts too.
<grantbow> though we have more time for that
<pleia2> yeah :)
<pleia2> I'm inclined to just ignore the logo thing, people should use the bear, or design something else - that design doesn't *have to* automatically become our new logo
<grantbow> right
<pleia2> I think that much clarification on the wiki page would be sufficient, otherwise looks great
<scientes> grantbow, has leaf talked to you about our proposal to do a e-waste recycling and reuse outfit in san francisco?
<pleia2> I would also appreciate consideration as to how the design lands on a woman :) http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/4916876116/
<darthrobot> Title: [img_6260.jpg | Flickr - Photo Sharing!]
<grantbow> pleia2, so the xl was purchased?
<pleia2> grantbow: it may still be around, I'd have to check
<grantbow> scientes: not yet
<grantbow> pleia2: if it's still there I could use it
<pleia2> grantbow: ok, I'll have a look after work :)
<grantbow> pleia2: I'll add something about sizes and intended uses of the shirt design
<grantbow> pleia2: thanks
<grantbow> scientes: I hear mcrc.org / accrc.org is having troubles
<scientes> exctly
<grantbow> something similar to a freegeek.org ?
<grantbow> If we have people willing and able to help we should talk to Ilma
<grantbow> and James
<grantbow> I'll email leif now.
<scientes> yep
<grantbow> shirt announcement sent to the list
<scientes> we had a meeting about it on wed, meeting again wed @ 9PM in turing room at nb
<grantbow> aha! thanks for the heads up. I'll try to be there.
<grantbow> any notes or wiki pages available?
<scientes> nope
<scientes> well there is an etherpad that i havn't joined for drafting the mission statement
<grantbow> interesting, I just emailed the partimus board about doing our mission statement in a comprehensive way as recommended in http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/094006927X/
<darthrobot> Title: [The Fieldstone Alliance Guide to Crafting Effective Mission and Vision Statements: Emil Angelica: 9780940069275: Amazon.com: Books]
<scientes> also for a name for the org
<grantbow> oops, I forgot to set a deadline for submissions.
<grantbow> How does Christmas sound as a deadline?
<grantbow> I merged some of the email text into https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/Shirts-2012
<darthrobot> Title: [CaliforniaTeam/Projects/Shirts-2012 - Ubuntu Wiki]
<grantbow> recycling email sent
<grantbow> headed out to do some errands before dvlug.org tonight - ttyl :-)
#ubuntu-us-ca 2012-11-24
<akk> Has launchpad stopped sending bug updates to the submitter of the bug? I'm pretty sure it used to do that.
 * akk explicitly subscribes to a bug she created since she missed getting a request for more info
<akk> No, I can't, it says I'm already subscribed, hmm
#ubuntu-us-ca 2012-11-25
<toddc> hi
<pleia2> hello
<toddc> I was just saying hi to mike but he left but hello pleia2 have a good thanksgiving?
<pleia2> hi toddc, yes :) I went to the zoo! how about you?
<toddc> large family days till today
<toddc> zoo sounds fun--note to self buy family pass for Xmas
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> I'm heading over to berkeleylug today, but this event is also happening today in San Mateo: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-california/2124/detail/
<darthrobot> Title: [Let's Build Some 12.04 Desktops! | Ubuntu LoCo Team Portal]
<pleia2> at berkeleylug \o/
#ubuntu-us-ca 2013-11-18
<grantbow> .
<pleia2> meeting in 8 minutes :)
<pleia2> was hoping philip would be here to chat about scale
 * pleia2 tweets at him
<grantbow> hey phil!
 * pleia2 wins at the internet
<grantbow> +1 pleia2
 * philipballew waves
<philipballew> yeah, if you ever want to reach me, tweeting at me goes to my phone, laptop, and email.
<pleia2> #startmeeting
<darthrobot> Meeting started Mon Nov 18 03:00:18 2013 UTC.  The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<darthrobot> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<pleia2> ok, who all is here for our meeting?
 * eps waves
<pleia2> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/13November17
<darthrobot> Title: [CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/13November17 - Ubuntu Wiki]
<grantbow> o/
<raevol> aaah am i too late?
<raevol> are we #ubuntu-meeting?
<pleia2> we are here, raevol
<pleia2> #topic vUDS this week
<raevol> hello!
<pleia2> #link http://uds.ubuntu.com/
<darthrobot> Title: [Ubuntu Developer Summit]
<pleia2> so no more in person UDS :( but virtual UDS is this week
<pleia2> starts bright and early at 7:05AM our time, that'll be fun :)
<philipballew> Tuesday iirc.
<pleia2> #link http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1311/
<darthrobot> Title: [UDS November 2013 19 Nov - 21 Nov 2013 | The Summit Scheduler]
<pleia2> yep, Tues-Thurs
<raevol> work hours for me :( urg
<pleia2> I'll be attending a few in the community track
<pleia2> raevol: yeah :\
<philipballew> I need to find a place to attend and what ours I can attend still but should pop in when I see a worthwhile track.
<eps> Such as ...? Looks like it's all Touch this, Touch that. :-(
<pleia2> eps: QA stuff, LoCos, Ubuntu Women
<pleia2> #link http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1311/track/community/
<darthrobot> Title: [Community Schedule - UDS November 2013 | The Summit Scheduler]
<pleia2> ^^ that's the community track
<grantbow> when registering it still asks about physical vs. remote, lol
<eps> I see a golden opportunity being missed ... how to close Bug #1 for real.
<pleia2> classroom sessions, docs roundtable, and limiting surveillence looks interesting
<raevol> i'd love to go to that QA workflows one, but there's no way
<philipballew> eps, Good point, can I send you the link for starting a session?
<pleia2> philipballew: the schedule is set now, the due date for submitting a session was weeks ago
<philipballew> pleia2, This is correct.
<pleia2> anyway, all the videos of sessions will be automagically archived on youtube following the sessions, so you can watch later if you want
<pleia2> which is an improvement to past in-person UDSes at least ;)
<pleia2> particularly the ones in europe that had sessions at 1AM
<grantbow> 1AM pacific :-)
<pleia2> eps: I did want to mention, this project exists: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StartUbuntu
<darthrobot> Title: [StartUbuntu - Ubuntu Wiki]
<pleia2> eps: since you were interested in the XP EoL thing, that project seeks to address it
<grantbow> rolling stones music too?
<philipballew> might be a good project to tackle eps :)
<pleia2> #topic scale12x
<raevol> hey
<pleia2> philipballew: I know you said we'd start planning around thanksgiving, but folks are starting to buy tickets, do we have a promo code again?
<pleia2> promo code for discount, not free booth workers
<raevol> so a thing i wanted to bring up about SCaLE, the past 2 years we've said it'd be nice to have literatuyre to hand out about common ubuntu questions like "what if i don't like Unity"
<raevol> can we make some plans to write/print some of that? i'd love to be involved
<pleia2> raevol: sure!
<philipballew> pleia2, We should yes. I was going to send out some emails about this the week after next. I can do that sooner though.
<philipballew> Anytime after Tuesday.
<pleia2> philipballew: I think sooner would be better, eps brought this up at the ubuntu hour this week
<pleia2> cool
<philipballew> pleia2, I will do my best to do that this week
<pleia2> thanks :)
<grantbow> I created a link to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/Scale12x but it needs a copy and paste from last year.
<grantbow> to begin
<darthrobot> [404] Title: [CaliforniaTeam/Projects/Scale12x - Ubuntu Wiki]
<pleia2> yeah, can someone take care of that? then we'll add raevol's idea too
<pleia2> if I can make it to scale, I hope to bring along some xubuntu fliers too
<raevol> :D
<grantbow> phil, want me to copy and paste from last year to begin?
<pleia2> (which means we need to finish writing xubuntu fliers :))
<eps> If we have demo systems in the booth, there's no reason they can't have multiple desktop environments installed.
<philipballew> grantbow, yes please!
<grantbow> phil, will do
<pleia2> thanks grantbow
<philipballew> I am going to be working on handouts and stuff to give away as well.
<raevol> another topic it'd be good to have literature on is the shopping lens, and i think it'd be awesome if we had a lot of concerete technical information about what it does, and what happens when you shut it off, especially as a non-direct reply to fixubuntu
<pleia2> philipballew: oh good, can you work with raevol on that?
<raevol> but we can discuss literature outside this meeting
<pleia2> raevol: yeah, maybe even something simple like a screenshot of the off switch ;)
<raevol> pleia2: ;D
<grantbow> phil, done.
<grantbow> it needs editing
<philipballew> pleia2, yeah, It might be me and raevol driving up in the car full of swag possibly.
<raevol> philipballew: let's schedule a SD ubuntu hour when your school calms down and we can use that to work on this some?
<pleia2> philipballew: sweet
<raevol> PARTY BUS FROM SAN DIEGO
<pleia2> richard is working on getting ubucon together, he said he has all speakers slotted already
<pleia2> haha
<raevol> i still want to do my OpenMW talk at SCaLE but i need to get my paper proposal in :(
<eps> You should focus on emphasizing the positive ... just be prepared to deal with the trolls.
<pleia2> raevol: yes! Cfp closes in december I think
<pleia2> eps: +1
<raevol> eps yea we just find that we answer a lot of the same questions every year, so if we just had literature to give them it'd expedite that...
<philipballew> I am going to Ubuntu user from Tijuana help possibly, so we will have a translator in case someone speaks Spanish is better.
<raevol> grantbow: do you know when the CFP closes offhand? i can look it up if not
<pleia2> 15th? I can check
<philipballew> about a month from now
<grantbow> pleia2, thanks
<pleia2> 15 Dec, 2013: Deadline for abstracts/proposals submissions
<philipballew> I know my Christmas break will be spent all on SCALE stuff.
<raevol> yea 15th
<raevol> thanks
<pleia2> but sooner is always better :) more eyeballs on proposals that come in early
<pleia2> I sent mine in ages ago
<raevol> yea i just need time to write it :(
<grantbow> pleia2: on openstack?
 * philipballew will only be speaking ubucon this year so there is that.
<pleia2> grantbow: well, systems administration I do on the openstack project
 * grantbow nods
<pleia2> so not directly openstack itself
<philipballew> My talk on "why switching to arch was the greatest decision of my life" was turned down for Ubucon for some reason.
<pleia2> ok, sounds like we're in a good space for scale then
<pleia2> haha
<raevol> philipballew: xD hahaha
<philipballew> pleia2, If the booth workers want, we can get some Ubuntu shirts printed for them. or see if we can get some Ubuntu shirts sent out?
<pleia2> philipballew: hmm, maybe scope out some t-shirt vendors and see if we can get sponsorship for them?
<pleia2> either sponsored from the vendor, or request community funds from canonical
<raevol> i'll pay for a shirt if i can keep it
<pleia2> but we'd need solid prices
<philipballew> pleia2, Yeah, I am gonna see what I can get for free first
<pleia2> maybe print them for ubucon speakers too
<philipballew> then prices.
<philipballew> pleia2, Seems like a good option.
<eps> T-shirts are expensive in short runs.
<raevol> i wonder if i could get my dad to print some... the design would have to be simple though
<pleia2> we need an artistic person to make us a good, simple design
<philipballew> I'm gonna see what I can score for free as well.
<pleia2> ok, after meeting I'll update the wiki with these ideas
<pleia2> thanks philipballew
<pleia2> #topic Any Other Business
<pleia2> berkeley ubuntu hour coming up on the 21st (last day of vUDS!) http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-california/2528-ubuntu-hour-berkeley/
<darthrobot> Title: [Ubuntu Hour Berkeley | Ubuntu LoCo Team Portal]
<pleia2> if my cold has subsided, I might go out to stay in the UDS spirit ;)
<grantbow> hurray buug.org
<eps> (obligatory complaint about mixed content on lists.ubuntu.com)
<pleia2> mixed content?
<grantbow> mixed?
<eps> http content on a forced https page
<pleia2> oh, heh
<eps> It's a bad thing.
<philipballew> eps, the world cant be perfect
<philipballew> :)
<eps> The world doesn't have to be perfect. Just the front-facing parts.
<pleia2> that's something to take up with canonical IS, we don't have any control there
<pleia2> tickets can be submitted to rt@ubuntu.com
<pleia2> anyone else have any loco stuff before we wrap up?
<raevol> wait
<pleia2> go for it
<philipballew> CA LOCO IS BEST LOCO!
<raevol> i'm updating the scale page, should i remove the whole "stuff we need" section, or keep it?
<pleia2> up to philipballew
<raevol> just saved the page with the date changes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/Scale12x#preview
<darthrobot> Title: [CaliforniaTeam/Projects/Scale12x - Ubuntu Wiki]
<pleia2> if we accidentally delete anything, it's a wiki, we can bring it back :)
<raevol> philipballew: take a look at it for "stuff we need" and "volunteers" section, you can keep me on there
<raevol> k that's all from me :)
<pleia2> thanks raevol
<grantbow> #topic Annual Elections
<pleia2> oh right, I forgot about elections
<grantbow> who wants to volunteer to run an election?
<raevol> what are the elections for?
<pleia2> CA leadership, we change every year, right now it's me, grantbow and philipballew
<grantbow> it says annual somewhere
<raevol> cool
<eps> I nominate darthrobot, Eureka, and R2Pi2
<pleia2> the first skynet loco
<raevol> i nominate pleia2, grantbow, and philipballew
<pleia2> grantbow: sounds like we need to take this to the list (so we can hear crickets there too :P)
<grantbow> ok, sounds good
<pleia2> then I'll just make someone do it
<pleia2> voluntelling++
<raevol> i don't think i have time to run an election, but what is involved? or i can just look for the info on the list
<pleia2> do a call for nominations, collect nominations, set up a poll in launchpad, close it announce winners
<raevol> D:
<raevol> that sounds like something that i would not have the time for :(
<pleia2> ok
<raevol> srys
<pleia2> we'll find someone :)
<pleia2> maybe make jyo do it
<pleia2> or YokoZar, he loves polls
<grantbow> lol
<pleia2> ok, thanks all :)
<pleia2> excited for scale already!
<raevol> me too!
<pleia2> #endmeeting
<darthrobot> Meeting ended Mon Nov 18 03:34:06 2013 UTC.
<darthrobot> Minutes:        http://ihas.5cat.com/~darthrobot/ubuntu-us-ca/2013/ubuntu-us-ca.2013-11-18-03.00.moin.txt
<raevol> we should have an ubuntu CA loco toast or something
<raevol> at scale
<grantbow> thanks pleia2
<raevol> yea thanks pleia2
<pleia2> we did a team dinner at denny's one scale, that was a lot of fun
<raevol> that'd be cool too
<pleia2> should do again :)
<raevol> last year i was mostly following jorge around
<raevol> hahahhaa
<pleia2> hehe
<grantbow> raevol did you have a question about a reg code for scale?
<pleia2> ok, back to tackling this cold by giving it as much rest as possible ;)
 * pleia2 nap &
<grantbow> philipballew where do we get our discounts? :-)
<raevol> grantbow: yea, i asked philipballew, but the question is, anyone know if the UBUCO code from last years's wiki page will be good this year> or should we delete that part?
<raevol> nn pleia2
<eps> pleia2: have some hot tea ;-)
<grantbow> anyone tried it yet?
<grantbow> when does registration open?
<eps> It already has
<raevol> wait, who's the guy who runs SCaLE?
<grantbow> hmm, opened Sept 22nd
<grantbow> there are several
<raevol> grantbow: for some reason i thought you ran SCaLE hahaha
<grantbow> no way
<grantbow> I've not been able to be involved in scale much
<raevol> huh
<grantbow> There's Gareth and Ilan among others involved like Larry.
<raevol> GARETH
<raevol> that's who i have you mistaken for
<grantbow> I'm not that tall, lol
<philipballew> Alright, Im off to go get a California Burrito.
<raevol> gareth, grant, basically the same thing...
<raevol> philipballew: JUST ATE ONE
<raevol> i'm also off
<philipballew> raevol, Lucky!
<raevol> bother me about the booth literature, when i get time i'd be down to draft a few
<raevol> ttfn
<grantbow> dinner time, cya
<bkerensa> pleia2: I would be happy to buy the LoCo drinks at Scale
<bkerensa> :)
<raevol> 'morning
<kdub> hello raevol
<raevol> sup kdub!
<kdub> nothing much... the usual mir stuff, you?
#ubuntu-us-ca 2013-11-21
<raevol> http://doctorbeet.blogspot.ru/2013/11/lg-smart-tvs-logging-usb-filenames-and.html
<darthrobot> Title: [DoctorBeet's Blog: LG Smart TVs logging USB filenames and viewing info to LG servers]
<raevol> so, fixlg.com?
 * pleia2 snorts
<pleia2> I prefer, if you don't like it, samsung.com :)
<raevol> :D hehehe
<raevol> i prefer dumb monitors with a self-built ubuntu media box hooked up
#ubuntu-us-ca 2013-11-22
<Torikun> yo
<bkerensa> raevol: If you use HULU, Netflix, Any Network/Cable Connect DVR your viewing preferences and remote control use is logged and sent to Rentrak
<bkerensa> they build up a profile on you and then resell it to tv networks and advertisers
<bkerensa> so the LG smart tv is not much spying in the grand scheme of things ;)
<bkerensa> oh and they are plugged into gaming (Xbox Live, PSN, Various Game Publishers)
<bkerensa> http://www.rentrak.com/section/movies_and_tv_everywhere/about_movies_and_tv_everywhere.html
<bkerensa> :)
<darthrobot> Title: [About Movies & TV Everywhere | Rentrak]
 * bkerensa has a few friends who work there and I'm amazed by the data they collect ;)
<raevol> haha
<raevol> good thing i just don't watch TV
<raevol> or own any consoles
<raevol> Steam probably collects my gaming habits, but all they'll know is that i barely have time to game and wish i could game mor
<raevol> more*
<bkerensa> imho I don't care if networks know that I watch too much treys anatomy
<bkerensa> greys*
<bkerensa> or Sons of Anarchy or any other show
<akk> TV networks don't advertise per-customer, though, do they? Or have things changed that much since I stopped having TV?
<raevol> i dunno, for me it's less what they do or don't do with the data, but instead that they even have the data and could do all kinds of things with it
<raevol> but there's a lot to the subject... anyway
<akk> Yeah, so much for "if you're not paying for the product, you are the product" -- since even if you're paying, you're still the product.
<raevol> haha yea
<raevol> it's just up to us to fight back
<raevol> encryption, alternative distribution, non-consumerism, etc
<akk> I don't think I'm willing to stop renting movies to fight back against that.
<raevol> you don't have to stop watching movies to stop using invasive distribution services :P
<pleia2> hulu does targeted advertising per customer (on the web version there's even an "is this ad relevant to you?" button for some commercials)
<blitz> just don't ever answer
<akk> raevol: What's the alternative? Illegal bittorrent downloading?
<akk> Any rental service will know what we rent.
<raevol> you can see movies in a theater
<raevol> you can buy dvds
<raevol> you can watch them at friend's houses
<raevol> there's lots of things to do
<akk> The first two cost orders of magnitude more ... guess I'm too poor/cheap to choose privacy. :)
<akk> well, an order of magnitude, not plural orders
<raevol> maybe you should spend less time watching netflix and more time making money then :P hahaha
<raevol> you're complaining about the cost of a leisure activity
<akk> We watch (some part of) a movie nearly every night. And I'm pretty happy with that model, for now.
<akk> so, oh well, someone tracks what we watch ... I really don't see an easy way to avoid that.
<raevol> yea i guess it just depends on what's important to you
#ubuntu-us-ca 2013-11-24
<MichaelPaoli> Berkeley Linux Users Group - meeting in progress ... 'till 3pm PST http://www.berkeleylug.com/
<MichaelPaoli> Free Hard Drive: 80 G IDE/ATA/PATA - at meeting now https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/berkeleylug/UJr8lvC9e0o - looks like there will be other hardware giveaways too https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/berkeleylug
<darthrobot> Title: [Google Groups]
<darthrobot> Title: [Google Groups]
<Torikun> Yo
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-us-ca to: Welcome to the Ubuntu California Local Community (LoCo) Team! | Website: http://ubuntu-california.org (has links to mailing list, forum, and more!) | Next Meeting: December 1st | This channel is publicly logged at irclogs.ubuntu.com | We have an unlogged channel at #ubuntu-us-ca-offtopic
#ubuntu-us-ca 2014-11-17
<DonkeyHotei> o/
* rww changed the topic of #ubuntu-us-ca to: Welcome to the Ubuntu California Local Community (LoCo) Team! | Website: http://ubuntu-california.org (has links to mailing list, forum, and more!) | Next Meeting: November 16nd at 7PM PT | This channel is publicly logged at irclogs.ubuntu.com | We have an unlogged channel at #ubuntu-us-ca-offtopic
* rww changed the topic of #ubuntu-us-ca to: Welcome to the Ubuntu California Local Community (LoCo) Team! | Website: http://ubuntu-california.org (has links to mailing list, forum, and more!) | Next Meeting: November 16th at 7PM PT | This channel is publicly logged at irclogs.ubuntu.com | We have an unlogged channel at #ubuntu-us-ca-offtopic
<DonkeyHotei> don't forget to change it again after
<rww> A bunch of places need updating, I'm going to sit down and do it today :)
<rww> Howdy. I'll kick off a meeting in 5 minutes. There's nothing on the agenda right now, so if you have something to discuss feel free to throw it out there or I'll just go straight to Any Other Business.
<DonkeyHotei> ideas for events?
<DonkeyHotei> also, SCaLE
<rww> call for nominations for 2015 leadership is coming up next month
 * rww ponders what else
<rww> next meeting is on Sunday of thanksgiving weekend
<eps> Heh. That's the busiest travel day of the year.
<DonkeyHotei> good luck getting items for THAT agenda
<rww> indeed
<rww> #startmeeting
<darthrobot> Meeting started Mon Nov 17 03:00:15 2014 UTC.  The chair is rww. Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<darthrobot> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<rww> #topic Roll call
<rww> Raise your hands in the air
<rww> like you just don't care?
<rww> o/
<DonkeyHotei> [Sun 2014-11-16 05:04:05 PM PST] <DonkeyHotei> o/
<nhaines> _o/
<ianorlin> o/
<eps> o|
<elky> o/
<ianorlin> wait but I am left handed does that mean I should go \o
<DonkeyHotei> Ã´
<rww> woohoo, people
<elky> ianorlin: you should try use your offhand as much as possible so it stays strong :P
<rww> alrighty, I'm going to take the topics in reverse chronological order because why not
<rww> #topic Next meeting date
<rww> Next meeting is scheduled for November 30th right now, which is on the Sunday of Thanksgiving week.
<rww> I guess that's sub-optimal. Shall I suggest on the mailing list that we skip/postpone that one?
<rww> (and if so, which of skip/postpone)
<ianorlin> postpone
<elky> skip
<DonkeyHotei> maybe the previous sunday?
<elky> the last few agendas have been so busy and all </s>
<eps> skip until Dec. 14
<rww> ianorlin: until the 7th I guess?
<ianorlin> yes
<nhaines> Skip.
<DonkeyHotei> 3 skips so far
<rww> If we postpone, it's 7th and 21st. if we skip, it's 14th and 28th
 * rww ponders
<rww> or 7th and 14th I guess
<DonkeyHotei> 21st is close to christmas, 28th is close to new year's
<rww> I'll email the mailing list about meetings in december in general, and try to get consensus by the 23rd. Does that work for everyone?
<ianorlin> yes
<elky> yep
<DonkeyHotei> "
<eps> abstain
<rww> #action rww to email ML tonight about December meetings, decision by 23rd
<darthrobot> ACTION: rww to email ML tonight about December meetings, decision by 23rd
<nhaines> Sounds good to me.
<rww> #topic 2015 leadership election reminder
<rww> This is pretty much just a note that we have an election coming up. Based on the timing last year, there should be a nomination period in December and election in January.
<rww> jyo did it last year, but I'm not running this year and am fine with doing it instead. Whatever works.
<rww> Anyone have any election-related comments?
<DonkeyHotei> great because jyo is hereby nominated
<rww> I forget whether nominations are self-nominations or not.
<nhaines> I approve of elections in general.
<DonkeyHotei> i believe both are acceptable
<rww> yeah, looks like non-self was fine last year and jyo checked in with nominees before election to see if they actually want to run
<rww> however, the nomination period isn't open yet, so hold that thought until it is ;)
<rww> anyone have any questions/comments/concerns about that whole process?
 * ianorlin doesn't
<rww> alrighty, moving onwards
<rww> #topic SCaLE
<rww> #link http://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale13x
<darthrobot> Title: [SCALE 13x | scale13x]
<nhaines> I also approve of SCaLE in general.
<DonkeyHotei> nhaines: you gonna do ubucon again?
<rww> Looks like it's scheduled for February 19-22, 2015 this year, at Hilton LAX (again).
<rww> If anyone's interested in presenting at SCaLE itself, see https://www.socallinuxexpo.org/cfp and submit a proposal by the 10th
<darthrobot> Title: [Call for Papers | SCALE 13x]
<rww> Who's planning on going so far? (I'm not, busy at work around then.)
<eps> I hope most of you have already made arrangements. Affordable travel and accommodations are going to disappear soon, if they haven't already. Cheap seats on Megabus are already sold out.
<nhaines> I'm planning to be there.  I'll take charge of the booth this year.
<DonkeyHotei> affordable accommodations never *completely* sold out before, just needed an extra drive
<eps> We need a discount code for regular attendees and the usual packet for workers.
<rww> nhaines: do you want to coordinate with the SCaLE folks to get the booth registered and such?
<nhaines> Ooh, tht's a good idea.  Yeah, I'll handle that this year and get the discount code and stuff.
<eps> This year looks different ... the usual overflow hotels are horrendously expensive, suggesting there's another major event on those dates.
<nhaines> eps: that all comes together with the packet.
<rww> nhaines: ta. CC: the leadership folks on emails so we know status please :)
<ianorlin> I am
<eps> Note that SCaLE has expanded to four days.
<rww> also, I notice that since action can't be taken on non-agendized items, I'll be emailing the list asking for input before making that decision "official"
<rww> so hold off about a week
<rww> #action rww to email list about SCaLE, recommending voluntelling nhaines to coordinate booth work
<darthrobot> ACTION: rww to email list about SCaLE, recommending voluntelling nhaines to coordinate booth work
<nhaines> Sounds good to me.
<eps> Put SCaLE discussion on the next agenda.
<rww> #action rww to add SCaLE to the next meeting agenda when he makes the next meeting agenda tonight
<darthrobot> ACTION: rww to add SCaLE to the next meeting agenda when he makes the next meeting agenda tonight
<rww> (I'll date it for the 30th, until we decide what date to move it to)
<rww> Any other SCaLE comments/questions/discussion?
<DonkeyHotei> look for accommodations in the Monterey Park area?
<eps> DonkeyHotei: that's a bit of a commute
<DonkeyHotei> yep
<ianorlin> my commute is from Torrance
<ianorlin> at my parents house
<DonkeyHotei> torrance is closer
<rww> if anyone needs to do rideshare and such, that'd be something to bring up in here pretty shortly
<rww> anyways, next topic
<rww> #topic Event ideas
<DonkeyHotei> personally i can't afford to attend at all without free room & board atm, but if i did, my car seats 5 total
<eps> nhaines: Do you approve of events in general?
<DonkeyHotei> i approve of NorCal events in particular
<nhaines> eps: indeed I do!
 * eps does too
<rww> any ideas for them? :3
<nhaines> Every so often OCLUG talks about the old Linux Day events they used to host at Microcenter.
<nhaines> It might be fun to do that sort of thing.
<rww> what's a Linux Day?
<nhaines> They set up a table inside or in front of Microcenter with Linux on them and showed it off, gave out discs, and probably recommended some systems that were compatible.
<ianorlin> ah nice
<DonkeyHotei> NorCal no longer has a Microcenter
<eps> DonkeyHotei: whaaa?
<ianorlin> except I might lose money from spending it
<DonkeyHotei> eps: they closed a couple years back
<DonkeyHotei> 2010 i think
<eps> Darn. Looks like just Tustin now.
<nhaines> Oh, bummer.
<DonkeyHotei> they didn't even tell the employees not to show up for work at the time
<eps> Well, I guess we'll have to find another place to warn people about Bay Trail-based hardware.
<nhaines> Anyway, it might be fun to organize these kinds of events at smaller computer shops.  I'm going to try and gather information from those who ran the last ones.
<DonkeyHotei> there are smaller computer shops?
<nhaines> yes.  When you look at all computer shops, they are of various sizes.
<rww> as far as tabling goes, there's also farmers markets and other community gathering type stuff
<nhaines> That's true.  I've pondered the idea of exhibiting at swap meets or farmers markets.
<rww> #topic Any Other Business
<rww> anything else anyone would like to cover tonight?
 * DonkeyHotei puts a lid on it
<nhaines> I'm good for now.
 * eps moves for adjournment
<rww> and I think everyone else wandered off
<nhaines> I approve of adjourment in general.
 * rww bans meeting hammer
<rww> #endmeeting
<darthrobot> Meeting ended Mon Nov 17 03:48:55 2014 UTC.
<darthrobot> Minutes:        http://ihas.5cat.com/~darthrobot/ubuntu-us-ca/2014/ubuntu-us-ca.2014-11-17-03.00.moin.txt
<DonkeyHotei> i don't see the meeting hammer in the channel banlist
<rww> bangs, even :P
<rww> I'll be around for a bit doing wiki-editing and emailing :)
<DonkeyHotei> banlist is actually empty
<rww> emails done, will start wikiwork in a minute
* rww changed the topic of #ubuntu-us-ca to: Welcome to the Ubuntu California Local Community (LoCo) Team! | Website: http://ubuntu-california.org (has links to mailing list, forum, and more!) | Next Meeting: November 30th, 7PM PT (rescheduling under discussion on mailing list) | This channel is publicly logged at irclogs.ubuntu.com | We have an unlogged channel at #ubuntu-us-ca-offtopic
<rww> meeting wiki stuff all done
<nhaines> Good job, rww.
<rww> Looking at team report stuff now. If we did anything in September, October, or this month apart from the usual team meetings and Ubuntu Hours (that are on loco.ubuntu.com), highlight me with info
<rww> actually, I'll leave this month's team report until this month is almost over :)
<rww> September done, doing October now
<rww> done
 * rww wanders off :)
<philipballew> nhaines, for SCALE, I was going to request a conf pack this week.
<philipballew> As I did that last year
<philipballew> however last year took a phone call to London to totally get it here.
<rww> conference pack needs to be requested by a team admin, so one of us three will be sorting that out indeed
<rww> so yeah, I guess that's a you-thing philipballew
<rww> although we might want to have it mailed to nhaines so he can organize it (and he lives nearer to SCaLE anyway)
<philipballew> rww, yeah, I will get that sent this week. Also do we have a wiki page set up? If not, i can do that (these will probably be done Wednesday)
<rww> i don't think we have a wikipage set up
<philipballew> rww, I'll do the wiki page and email the group this week.
<rww> thanks :)
<philipballew> Perfect.
<philipballew> yeah, if anyone ever needs to find me and I am not online: I always answer my phone: 530-305-6497
#ubuntu-us-ca 2014-11-21
<nhaines> pleia2: In consideration of Ubuntu Community Appreciation Day, I just wanted to say that I appreciate you and all the work you do pretty much everywhere.
 * philipballew is gonna work on a few scale things
<pleia2> nhaines: I appreciate that :)
<nhaines> pleia2: you deserve it.  :)
<nhaines> So I have Super Smash Bros. for Wii U, a Mario amiibo figurine, and a GameCube controller ready to go here.
 * nhaines dances.
<pleia2> SSB does seem to be The Game people guy the wiiu for
<nhaines> I bought it because Pikmin, Zelda, and Mario Kart.  The Mario Kart DLC is brilliant.  But Smash Bros didn't hurt.
<nhaines> And Super Mario 3D World is kind of just pure joy, so that was an unexpected bonus.
<pleia2> mmmario kart
<pleia2> I play on my DS a lot, but my consoles are ignored, I probably won't end up getting one
<nhaines> Aww.
<nhaines> The F-Zero track in the first DLC pack is incredible fun.  Especially since MK8 is already pretty much F-Zero.
 * ianorlin remembers an article aobut someone running a really old version of unix on a game boy advance
<rww> pleia2: welcome back!
<pleia2> rww: thanks!
<rww> pleia2: thoughts on skipping Nov 30th (Thanksgiving weekend) and Dec 21st meetings?
<rww> so no more meetings this month, one in December, and two in January
<rww> (if you got the email, that's option 2A)
<pleia2> rww: wfm
<rww> alrighty. barring further mailing list posts, I'll announce that Sunday
<pleia2> thanks :)
 * pleia2 still working way through inbox, hasn't made her way to the folders yet
<nhaines> Well, it was fun arguing over in the OMG Ubuntu comments, but now I have to get some work done.
<nhaines> ianorlin: 5th edition Unix!  http://www.kernelthread.com/publications/gbaunix/
<darthrobot> Title: [UNIXÂ® on the Game Boy Advance]
#ubuntu-us-ca 2014-11-22
<pleia2> rww: nice on list voluntelling
 * pleia2 also won't be at scale ::
<pleia2> :(
#ubuntu-us-ca 2014-11-23
* rww changed the topic of #ubuntu-us-ca to: Welcome to the Ubuntu California Local Community (LoCo) Team! | Website: http://ubuntu-california.org (has links to mailing list, forum, and more!) | Next Meeting: December 14th at 7:00pm PT | This channel is publicly logged at irclogs.ubuntu.com | We have an unlogged channel at #ubuntu-us-ca-offtopic
<MichaelPaoli> Berkeley Linux Users Group - meeting in progress ('till 3pm) @ Bobby G's in Berkeley http://www.berkeleylug.com/?page_id=67
<darthrobot> Title: [Berkeley Linux Users Group Â» Meetings]
#ubuntu-us-ca 2015-11-16
<nhaines> I have another 3 hours of driving ahead of me, minimum. So I'll be watching my backscroll for the meeting recap tonight!
<ianorlin> ok meeting in 5 minutes
<ianorlin> #startmeeting
<darthrobot> Meeting started Mon Nov 16 03:00:49 2015 UTC.  The chair is ianorlin. Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<darthrobot> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<ianorlin> who is here for this meeting ?
<DonkeyHotei> o/
<ianorlin> the agenda this week is empty https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings
<darthrobot> Title: [CaliforniaTeam/Meetings - Ubuntu Wiki]
<ianorlin> #topic upcoming events
<ianorlin> we have scale and ubucon coming up in January and nominations for team leaders for next year
<DonkeyHotei> are nominations open?
<ianorlin> it says they are open
<ianorlin> today but I am not sure nominating someone not here we would need to get whether they accept or not
<DonkeyHotei> you're here, so you could be nominated, no?
<ianorlin> yes
<DonkeyHotei> then i'd like to nominate you for a 2nd term
<ianorlin> I accept
<DonkeyHotei> do we have any events prior to scale?
<ianorlin> maybe some ubuntu hours I am not sure of
<ianorlin> don't know of any annouced
<ianorlin> hosting an ubuntu hour would be nice if someone want to do that
<DonkeyHotei> i think most are regularly scheduled
<ianorlin> yes I think there is one in Passdena and then there are the bay area ones which I can't bring to mind right now
<DonkeyHotei> they should be on the wiki
<ianorlin> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-california/2992-ubuntu-hour-berkeley/ is the next event I see
<darthrobot> Title: [Ubuntu Hour Berkeley | Ubuntu LoCo Team Portal]
<ianorlin> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-california/2997-ubuntu-hour-berkeley/ is the other one after the next meeting and then it is to the new year
<darthrobot> Title: [Ubuntu Hour Berkeley | Ubuntu LoCo Team Portal]
<ianorlin> #topic any other business
<DonkeyHotei> which airport serves scale now?
<ianorlin> I don't ever take airplanes so I am not sure
<DonkeyHotei> if i attend, i would not be flying in, but the question was posed by someone who needs to be back in norcal the following day
<ianorlin> I don't think there is only one but passadena is a bit far from LAX
<ianorlin> I know there is also an airport in Burbank that airlines fly to
<ianorlin> I don't know traffic well on those connecting routes east when traveling north and south because I do not usually head that way
<DonkeyHotei> i was assuming there is an official scale airport much like there is an official scale hotel
<ianorlin> The directoins on there give freeways mostly
<ianorlin> richard gaskin will know better so might be better to ask on mailing list
<ianorlin> and probalby george mulak as well
<ianorlin> I don't have anything more on this subject
<ianorlin> anything else to add
<ianorlin> #endmeeting
<darthrobot> Meeting ended Mon Nov 16 03:41:37 2015 UTC.
<darthrobot> Minutes:        http://ihas.5cat.com/~darthrobot/ubuntu-us-ca/2015/ubuntu-us-ca.2015-11-16-03.00.moin.txt
<mobilephonepi> Hello.  Is anyone interested in trading hardware?
<mobilephonepi> I have some mobile phones and a tablet, but I want to see if I can trade them for a hard drive enclosure and software.
<DonkeyHotei> entirely possible, but attendance in the channel is spotty atm
#ubuntu-us-ca 2015-11-17
<mobilephone31415> Hello.  Does anyone have a YouTube channel they'd like to share?
#ubuntu-us-ca 2015-11-20
<philipballew> nhaines, around for a pm?
<SteevB> hey phil whatsup!
<nhaines> Generic reminder that if someone wants to PM me, they either should simply do so or if I don't respond to a ping they should probably just email me.
<nhandler> About to submit my first talk proposal for a conference. Any tips?
<akk> Think about what you look for when you're at a conference -- what sort of talk descriptions make you want to go to that talk.
<akk> Mention fun things you might talk about, or interesting things the attendee might learn.
<nhandler> Thanks a lot, akk. I'll definitely keep those tips in mind when writing my proposal.
<akk> Good luck, nhandler!
<nhandler> :D
<nhaines> nhandler: akk had great advice.  It's hard to add anything to it.  See if you can get your personality to peek through the description.
<nhandler> nhaines: This proposal requires me to submit a short video with it, so that should make that part easier
<nhaines> There you go!
#ubuntu-us-ca 2015-11-22
<pleia2> ah, wiki load times
<pleia2> ianorlin: I seem to recall you accepted a nomination at the last meeting, care to add yourself to the wikipage? :)
 * pleia2 adds SF ubuntu hour for december to the schedule
 * nhandler adds it to his calendar so he doesn't forget
<pleia2> :)
<MichaelPaoli> Berkeley Linux Users Group (BerkeleyLUG) - still @ Bobby G's Pizzeria - noon-3pm http://berkeleylug.com/meetings/
<darthrobot`> Title: [Meetings | BerkeleyLUG]
#ubuntu-us-ca 2016-11-23
<nhaines> I am sad that I am leaving Germany tomorrow.
<nhaines> Granted, most of that sadness is the fact that I need to pack in like 5 more minutes....
#ubuntu-us-ca 2016-11-26
<lug|32668> how do i request the color scheme for the website  ~~  dvlug.org ~~  be made more readable???  Its horribly hard to read with a dark purple background and black text and blue hyperlinks...
#ubuntu-us-ca 2016-11-27
<MichaelPaoli> Berkeley Linux Users Group (BerkeleyLUG) meeting noon-3p @ 85C In Berkeley https://berkeleylug.com/meetings/
<darthrobot> Title: [Meetings â BerkeleyLUG]
#ubuntu-us-ca 2018-11-19
 * nhaines waves at popey.
<popey> ð
<nhaines> I'm still not used to emoji in IRC. Particularly not color ones.  :)
<nhaines> Hello, everyone!  Meeting coming up in about 6 minutes.
<nhaines> #startmeeting
<nhaines> Hello everyone, and welcome to the Ubuntu California meeting for November 18th!
<nhaines> Tonight's agenda can be found here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/18November18
<nhaines> #topic Upcoming Events
<nhaines> Anything exciting coming up around California?
<aidian> linux users group of davis meets tomorrow? :)
<nhaines> That works!  :)
<nhaines> Is there a link?
<aidian> http://www.lugod.org
<nhaines> Thank you!  :)
<nhaines> #topic Announcements
<nhaines> Ubuntu 18.04 LTS will be supported by Canonical for 10 years!  That makes it a very LTS.
<nhaines> I don't have any further information, though.  I assume this is for server and Ubuntu Core and not necessarily the desktop.  But information is still slim!
<nhaines> Mark Shuttleworth mentioned financial servies, telecommunications, and IoT at the same time, so it will be very interesting to see what this long support window ends up looking like.  :)
<nhaines> In any case, I'm sure it's something we'll be asked about at SCALE, so we'll be sure to brief everyone with what we know by then.
<nhaines> #topic Agenda
<nhaines> There are no items on tonight's agenda.
<nhaines> #topic Other business
<nhaines> Is there any other business for tonight's meeting?
<nhaines> Okay, our next meeting is December 2nd.  Happy Thanksgiving for all those who celebrate with turkey and other savory proteins, and see you all then!
<nhaines> #endmeeting
<aidian> cheers :)
<nhaines> aidian: cheers :)
<aidian> fwiw, tomorrow we're having our monthly meeting as an "opensource tech cafe"
<nhaines> Oh, that sounds fun.
<aidian> where people can come with technical questions, q's about f/oss software, andwe'll have a small pile of demo machines
<aidian> laptops, netbooks, a pi or two, running various distros for people to try out
<aidian> etc
<nhaines> Very nice!
<aidian> it's a thing anyways,hehe
<aidian> ubuntu will be showing up in lubuntu form
<nhaines> Do you get lots of newcomers for those types of meetings?
<aidian> not a whole lot, but we're in the local newspaper this month, so hopefully a few more than usual
<nhaines> We did a nice installfest for Ubuntu 16.04 LTS, I think, at OCLUG, and not only did we get a few newcomers, but also revitalized our existing members.
<aidian> ooh, nice.
<aidian> last year we did 'installfest junior' which this is kind of a theme on
<aidian> not a full-day event installfest, but a similar thing, people could bring machines to install, or get help with existing machines
<nhaines> We got some lanyards and pizza money from the Ubuntu community donations fund. It was efficient, but fun.
<aidian> we had a handful of people show up, people compiling drivers,someone tryingto install qubes, a borked mint install we fixed
<aidian> oh wow nice
<aidian> we takea donations for club funds but we also out of pocket a lot of stuff
<aidian> there wasa run of laptop snatching thefts recently for example, so a couple members ponied up to buy us a stock of cheap cable locks to give away, that was fun
<aidian> afk, gotta move
<nhaines> Yup, I pitched it as a group project, got us all to pick a distro (I recommended Ubuntu in my professional, unbiased opinion, ha!), got everyone to promise not to badmouth whatever distro we picked and to not offer other distros (but happily help with anything any new user asked for!).
<nhaines> And it was a lot of fun.  Attendance doubled after that, I printed out disclaimers and equipment inventory sheets, published the anonymous results, etc.  It was good for the LUG.
<aidian> hahaha wow, nice
<aidian> we're trying to grow more after a long-term slow shrink
#ubuntu-us-ca 2018-11-20
<aidian> hello from the monthly linux user group of davis meeting in davis, ca :)
<cyphase> hello up there
 * aidian o7
<aidian> ubuntu-ca group have anything planned coming up?
<popey> I need to pick people's brains in here. :)
<popey> I'm gonna be in SFO mid-January, and need to find a venue for a one day workshop
<popey> I'm attending a conf on 16th, so want to do a workshop the day after.
<popey> One option might be to use wework, via meetup, but that seems to only allow "approved" groups
<popey> https://help.meetup.com/hc/en-us/articles/360004656412-What-is-Meetups-WeWork-
<pleia2> aidian: the socal linux expo in March is the only big thing right now aside from the regular ubuntu hours in pasadena
<pleia2> popey: how big is the workshop? mozilla had a community room last I checked (we did a release party there once)
<popey> pleia2: heya! No idea really. Me and maybe one other person running it, no clue how many people would come, but wouldn't be surprised if it's "tens" or "ten" :D
<pleia2> https://wiki.mozilla.org/SF
<pleia2> I don't have s contact there anymore, but there is generic contact info :)
<pleia2> what kind of workshop? lots of startups can offer space if it's in their wheelhouse
<pleia2> nhandler's place does sometimes
<nhandler> popey: 10 would probably be too small for my place. What is the topic of the workshop?
<popey> I'm attending an Electron / Javascript conf. So hoping to get some of those people to bring their desktop apps to Linux
<popey> So electron / JS / Snapcraft / Travis, will be the main topics
<nhandler> Isn't Slack electron? They have a nice new office building
<popey> That's where the conference is ;)
<popey> I am speaking to them, but I don't want to presume we can use their space :)
<popey> Looking for options
<nhandler> Nylas, GitHub, Microsoft, box (Redwood City, not San Francisco) all appear to have hosted electron meetups. I'll go through my other records to look for some other JavaScript meetup venues
<popey> <3 thank you! :D
<nhandler> PubNub, Okta, and DoorDash have hosted some JavaScript meetups
<popey> noted, thanks
#ubuntu-us-ca 2018-11-21
<popey> https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/meetup-pro-subscription/8829
<popey> Relavent to the people in this channel.
<popey> Michael has made an "Org" (Like a meetup org) on get together for Ubuntu!
<popey> https://gettogether.community/org/ubuntu/
<popey> so people can create teams and join the org :D
<pleia2> before we pile in on this bandwagon, what's the status of the loco team portal?
<pleia2> it's already confusing to people that we have LTP and Meetup
<pleia2> switching to LTP(?) and GT has the same problem, and we lose the discoverability we benefit from on Meetup
<pleia2> (which is really the only reason we tolerated having them both)
<pleia2> suppose I should figure out how to log into discourse and talk about this there ;)
<popey> :)
<popey> Ubuntu SSO ftw
<popey> I think Michael always envisaged GT as LTP 2.0.
<popey> Nobody maintains LTP.
<pleia2> we always had about half the attendees for meetups just email me their RSVP because the LTP<>SSO integration would break in some way
<pleia2> and they'd be annoyed at that point, since they went to the trouble of setting up an account just to RSVP ;)
<popey> Yeah, it was never very robust :(
<popey> We used to have events like the Beer Train, and youd have to sign up in multiple places.
 * pleia2 makes words happen on discourse
<pleia2> popey: thanks for letting us know about the discussion :)
<popey> <3
<popey> Just sorry we didn't make a big enough drum beat about meetup
<popey> If we can justify it, and get more people on board using it, we could maybe continue to pay for it.
<popey> But it's quite a lot of cash
<pleia2> yeah, I had no idea it was that expensive for these org accounts, uch
#ubuntu-us-ca 2018-11-22
<lynorian> woah those prices
#ubuntu-us-ca 2019-11-18
<nhaines> Meeting coming up!  :)
<nhaines> And.... sorry!  Was called away urgently right on cue.
<nhaines> Is anyone still around for the meeting?
<nhaines> Okay, I suppose we'll touch base on December 15th.  Until then, the mailing list is always open!  :)
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-us-ca to: https://ubuntu-california.org (has links to mailing list, forum, and more!) | Next Meeting: Sunday, December 15th, at 7:00pm PST (UTC -8:00) This channel is logged at irclogs.ubuntu.com | We have an unlogged channel at #ubuntu-us-ca-offtopic
#ubuntu-us-ca 2019-11-20
<ryanjyoder> Out of curiosity did the meeting last weekend happen? I didn't see any archive of the chat.
<DonkeyHotei> [Sun 2019-11-17 06:55:48 PM PST]  <nhaines> Meeting coming up!  :)
<DonkeyHotei> [Sun 2019-11-17 07:15:25 PM PST]  <nhaines> And.... sorry!  Was called away urgently right on cue.
<DonkeyHotei> [Sun 2019-11-17 07:15:31 PM PST]  <nhaines> Is anyone still around for the meeting?
<DonkeyHotei> [Sun 2019-11-17 07:28:47 PM PST]  <nhaines> Okay, I suppose we'll touch base on December 15th.  Until then, the mailing list is always open!  :)
<DonkeyHotei> ryanjyoder: ^
<DonkeyHotei> this channel is publicly logged 24/7
<ryanjyoder> Ah ok thanks. ð
<DonkeyHotei> ryanjyoder: https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2019/11/18/%23ubuntu-us-ca.html
#ubuntu-us-ca 2019-11-22
<ryanjyoder> Hi all! I just started following this channel/community. I have to admit it's a bit quieter than i expected. :D so before i started spamming you all with stuff, i was wondering what are the reason people joined this channel? Maybe it sounds like a dumb question but just curious about people's motivations. Are most people using Ubuntu professionally? Or as a hobby?
<DonkeyHotei> it wasn't always this quiet here
<DonkeyHotei> and i used to be a lot more involved
<ryanjyoder> What do you think is driving that? Just a natural ebb and flow? Or a changing natural of online communities in general? Ie proximity is not as important as it used to be?
<DonkeyHotei> i attribute the quieting down in large part to the fact that fewer and fewer average people use computer desktops at all anymore except if their job makes them do so
<DonkeyHotei> and that has trickled up into what you see
<ryanjyoder> Hmmm did you really think less people are running Ubuntu on their machines now?
<ryanjyoder> Haha i ask this from my android
<DonkeyHotei> case in point
<ryanjyoder> But that only because i can't open my laptop now :)
<DonkeyHotei> phone, or tablet?
<ryanjyoder> Phone
<DonkeyHotei> yeah, fewer people use tablets for anything now too
<ryanjyoder> I want to try Ubuntu touch maybe on pine phone...
<DonkeyHotei> i ran it on a nexus5 for a bit
<ryanjyoder> But i don't own a car so I'm very reliant on lyft... So i couldn't make a full switch..
<ryanjyoder> Yeah....? How was it?
<DonkeyHotei> it seemed to combine some of the irritating aspects of iOS with something ChromeOS-esque
<DonkeyHotei> from a UX perspective, that is
<DonkeyHotei> under the hood, it was more like android
<DonkeyHotei> btw, there is or was a kubuntu touch variant, too, and it aimed to be partially compatible with android apps
