#ubuntu-ops 2007-10-29
<andresmujica> ok.
<PriceChild> nalioth, ah sorry, just removed it from towards #ubuntu and didn't think about it
<elkbuntu> gyah... i swear oo.o has got infinately slower between 2.2 and 2.3
<gnomefreak> why is +1 +f again and why -unregged?
<gnomefreak> elkbuntu: it has because every new feature slows it down by 1 minute
<LjL> gnomefreak, +f doesn't mean it *actually* forwards.
<LjL> it only does if +i or +r is set
<elkbuntu> gnomefreak, yeah i know
<gnomefreak> +f means what than?
<LjL> gnomefreak: it just *sets a channel* to forward to - *if* some other mode is set that causes the forwarding to actually happen
<gnomefreak> oh so if we set +r than we wouldnt have to set +f its there already
<gnomefreak> ok cool
<LjL> yes
<gnomefreak> its sunday my nonthinking day
 * Madpilot does /headdesk
<Tm_T> Madpilot: whats the matter?
<Madpilot> trying to help someone upgrade Feisty->Gutsy, and asking for 'more detail, please' gets me 'it does it's upgrade thing, then fails'
<Tm_T> =)
<Madpilot> actually, the exact quote was "it downloads the uprgrade thing..."
<Fujitsu> Madpilot: Are you able to remove Ubotwo from various channels that ubotu has rejoined?
<Madpilot> probably. which channels?
<Fujitsu> #launchpad, for example.
<Fujitsu> 11:36:03 < ubotu> New bug: #158181 in launchpad "Let people ask questions without previously creating an account" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/158181
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 158181 in launchpad "Let people ask questions without previously creating an account" [Undecided,New] 
<Fujitsu> 11:36:04 < Ubotwo> Launchpad bug 158181 in launchpad "Let people ask questions without previously creating an account" [Undecided,New] 
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 158181 in launchpad "Let people ask questions without previously creating an account" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/158181
<Madpilot> nope - I don't have ops there
<Madpilot> heh
<Fujitsu> Can't you @part it, or something?
<Madpilot> recursive bot calling.
<PriceChild> Madpilot, i can sort it
<PriceChild> Fujitsu, ^
<Fujitsu> PriceChild: Thanks.
<jdong> I thought L*j*L already did a flurry of that this morning
 * jdong checks whois
<Tm_T> jdong: sirss
<jdong> Tm_T: who?
<Tm_T> jdong: hug me
<jdong> PriceChild: you got it?
 * jdong hugs Tm_T 
<PriceChild> jdong, hmm?
<Tm_T> jdong: big thank you
<jdong> PriceChild: parting ubotwo?
<PriceChild> yeah i have @join,part on it
<jdong> PriceChild: mmkay, then I'm back to starcraft :)
<jdong> (shut up about asianness)
<PriceChild> :O You're the only one who's ever made jokes about that! :)
<PriceChild> Thankyou very much.
<Tm_T> asia?
<jdong> I am psychic :)
<LjL> i didn't part ubotwo from everywhere because i didn't see ubotu joining
<LjL> anyway ubotwo should be able to be kicked and not rejoin
<LjL> jdong, so can you by the way
<jdong> yeah, I noticed that, a bit of disjointness (#ubuntustudio and others)
<jdong> LjL: indeed, but master Pricey said he got it covered :)
<nalioth> overlords and kittens
<ubotu> astro76 called the ops in #ubuntu
<ubotu> astro76 called the ops in #ubuntu
<Madpilot> dealt wtih
<Madpilot> with, even
<Madpilot> driveby
<tonyyarusso> @btlogin
<nalioth> sleeep
<tonyyarusso> someday
<ubotu> buttercups called the ops in #ubuntu
<ubotu> Evanlec called the ops in #ubuntu
<tonyyarusso> elkbuntu: dare I ask what it was?
<elkbuntu> i didnt go to it, i was eww'ing at the mess
<tonyyarusso> ah
<tonyyarusso> Any improvements in your life this week?
 * rob wonders why installing fam wants to uninstall half of his desktop
<gnomefreak> did we find the UDS channel yet?
<Daviey> yes
<Daviey> #uds-boston ..
<gnomefreak> ty
<ompaul> gnomefreak, they are not awake yet methinks :)
<gnomefreak> i know same time zone ;)
<ompaul> gnomefreak, never would have guessed :)
<rob> there is #FOSSCamp too which seems to be related
<gnomefreak> im there
<gnomefreak> :)
 * rob wonders what "Please point your sources.list at archive.ubuntu.com" is about
 * gnomefreak waiting for email so i can go back to bed
<gnomefreak> rob: devels to upgrade maybe?
<rob> during the conference?
<gnomefreak> it hasnt started so i really dont know ;)
<rob> "point sources.list to archive.ubuntu.com for non-opaque proxy happyness"
 * rob wonders what non-opaque proxy happyness is
<ompaul> fosscamp was until today which is uds
<ompaul> who knows 
<Fujitsu> rob: non-opaque == transparent. They're running a transparent proxy locally, caching archive.ubuntu.com, to hopefully relieve some of the load from their slow connection in Boston.
<jussi01> what the? #ubuntu is dead... weird...
<jussi01> Ive never seen so little activity in there...
<Fujitsu> jussi01: Woah, yes.
<Fujitsu> No real activity in almost half an hour.
<jussi01> I wonder whats going on...
<PriceChild> "nothing"
<PriceChild> in both senses of the word
<jussi01> PriceChild: hehe...
<sladen> ljl: so carrying on in here;  the flood protection should bump people to something other than #ubuntu-unregged
<sladen> and the unregged "protection" can bounce people to -unregged
<Tm_T> hi sladen 
<LjL> sladen: why? registering is a good idea for anyone, anyway... and if someone gets +J-forwarded, it often means that there is a botnet attack in progress, so they should definitely register, because the channel will be +R
<PriceChild> we can't set a different forward for +r and +J though.
<LjL> that, too.
<PriceChild> If someone finds there way into -unregged who is already registered.... if they have any nouse they'll try joining #ubuntu again and succeed.
<sladen> <LjL@> sladen: no, +J doesn't *really* check if you're identified or not, it just forwards you into here if there are too many joins
<LjL> sladen: i could just tell people to "please try again join #ubuntu" instead of "please register and join #ubuntu" like i did, but why lose the change to get some more users to actually register?
<LjL> sladen: yes, and "too many joins", if +J is well-tuned, usually means a bot attack.
<LjL> s/change/chance/
<sladen> as you've noted, botnets can register people too
<sladen> so there's two different issues:
<PriceChild> but most don't as its a hassle and gets spotted
<PriceChild> yes we use -unregged for two things...
<sladen> (a) what to do when there are many people joining in 10seconds (possible when there's a botnet flodding, or when there are 150 people reconnecting from the same conference after the wifi comes back up)
<LjL> sladen: anyway as PriceChild said, there is a *technical* limitation that doesn't allow us to use two different channels for the two "types" of forwarding. so no matter how long we discuss the relative merits of either approach... that technical limitation remains
<sladen> (b) asking people to register, so that the same nick always will be the same person
<LjL> sladen: well, what we currently do is ask people to *register anyway* (unless they aren't already, i should have mentioned that perhaps, granted), and then rejoin
<PriceChild> LjL, unless we want slower responses to botnets by normally having +f #ubuntu-tryagain and then setting +rRf #ubuntu-unregged when needed.
<LjL> it won't hurt to register, will it? it's two nickserv commands
<sladen> so lets fix the technical limitation.   (Ubuntu is the main user of Freenode)
<LjL> two
<LjL> possibly one
<LjL> PriceChild: but 
<PriceChild> (which sounds silly to me)
<LjL> PriceChild: but *while* +R is set, and +J is also set, people will be forwarded to -unregged anyway
<sladen> and in the mean time fix it with the documentation  "you could have come to -unregged for two reasons: either you joined during a botnet attack, or your nick is not registered"
<PriceChild> Could I point out that 3 people *seem* to have been caught by +J in half a month.... and as it happens none of them actually wanted to use #ubuntu really... they've just idled :/
<PriceChild> and in the meantime, I can't remember a single "reasonably sized" botnet in #ubuntu...
<PriceChild> just one person jobs
<PriceChild> while they have attacked freenode servers in their thousands in other channels
<LjL> PriceChild: ehm, i'm not sure of the latter, but anyway
<PriceChild> there was definitely a colossal botnet a few days ago....
<PriceChild> didn't see a trace of it in #ubuntu
<LjL> PriceChild: no, that one didn't try #ubuntu
<PriceChild> Couldn't hurt to add a line to -unregged's topic saying "if you are already registered, please check you're identified they /join #ubuntu again"
<PriceChild> not that people read topics...
<LjL> PriceChild: i've added something similar, though less detailed
<LjL>  /topic If you haven't already, then please register your nickname to join #ubuntu - We are experiencing technical difficulties. Instructions at http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup (the commands explained there must be typed in your IRC program's status window, or if you don't have that, here - Use Â« /join #ubuntu Â» to eventually join the support channel)
<sladen> LjL: the heavyweight IRC users are reading by highlights, rather than /reading/ a channel
<sladen> LjL: groovy
<LjL> sladen: true, but what are you trying to say with that?
<sladen> LjL: that the IRC client needs to be able to reliably rejoin a channel that it thinks it should be connected to
<sladen> LjL: the redirect is breaking that
<LjL> sladen: when joining #ubuntu-unregged, a NOTICE is automatically sent. that triggers a highlight on most clients, i think.
<sladen> LjL: when a redirect happens, it would be useful to 'prefix:' the person and warn them that something has been messing with how IRC has worked for 18yeas
<LjL> sladen: and, as you've just seen, we do ping users who are in -unregged manually when we notice
<sladen> LjL: yup, which is useful, I wouldn't have known otherwise
<LjL> sladen: that could be done automatically by the bot, in theory, but it would be very easy for malicious people to exploit it in order to flood the bot... i suppose we can consider that option, though
<ompaul> ubotu join #uds-boston
<ompaul> ?
<ompaul> LjL, how do I get it to do that?
<ubotu> ebirtaid called the ops in #ubuntu
<LjL> ompaul, you can't if you aren't an admin on it...
<ompaul> ahh
<ompaul> right so 
<ompaul> we need it to can you get it to 
<LjL> ompaul: no. i can join ubotwo though
<ompaul> please do I will give it a factoid
<LjL> ompaul: please type also /msg ubotwo register ompaul password - i've lost my user list
<LjL> ompaul: ok you can join/part ubotwo yourself now (i've made it join #uds-boston already though)
 * LjL is away noe
<ompaul> see that thanks
<ompaul> LjL, tell it I am an editor please
<Hobbsee> Ubotwo: addedito ompaul 
<Hobbsee> Ubotwo: addeditor ompaul 
<Hobbsee> %addeditor
<ubotu> Invalid arguments for addeditor.
<ompaul> methinks it is not the same
<ompaul> anyway in #ubuntu or ubuntu-devel
<ompaul> do this
<jdong> no0tic: can we help you?
 * no0tic is an -it op
<jdong> no0tic: ha, just noticed I still have the trigger on
<jdong> âââââ
<jdong> 11:19 <+jdong> no0tic: can we help you?
<jdong> 11:19 -!- no0tic [i=no0tic@unaffiliated/no0tic] has joined #ubuntu-ops
<ubotu> kane77 called the ops in #ubuntu
<mneptok> http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071029/od_uk_nm/oukoe_uk_germany_halloween;_ylt=AtQm3mtzPHmWHPfs_V7d2K.s0NUE
<Tm_T> !test
<ubotu> Failed.
<Tm_T> stdin: hello?
<stefg> Hi.. i just noticed the !vmware factoid is outdated. vmware-player was taken away from the repos (was old and had a security leak) so it's no longer in the repos. Someone should change that and put a link instead, or so
<stefg> !vmware
<ubotu> VMWare Player is in Ubuntu's !Multiverse repository (package "vmware-player"), and http://www.easyvmx.com/easyvmx.shtml can create VMs for it. For VMWare Server, instructions can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VMware - See also !virtualizers
<stefg> no longer true
<nalioth> stefg: suggest a new one?
<stefg> ermmm.... d/l from vmware, get build-essentials and install manually ? ... too much for a factoid
<stefg> lemme see ....
<stefg> hmmm ... the trouble is you need to build the kernel modules, and that requires manually putting a symlink linux in /usr/src to the kernel-headers. Can't find a howto to link to yet
<Tm_T> just remove the outdated part, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VMware should contain install instructions
<stefg> so https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VMware/Player is outdated, too
<Tm_T> it is?
<Tm_T> stefg: update it =)
<stefg> Not a native speaker. i'd do in german, but my written english .... omg
<Tm_T> stefg: well bad english is better than false guides
<stefg> heh
<Tm_T> stefg: so please do :)
<stefg> !info vmware-player feisty
<ubotu> vmware-player: Free virtual machine player from VMware. In component multiverse, is optional. Version 1.0.2-2 (feisty), package size 11602 kB, installed size 31336 kB (Only available for i386 amd64)
<stefg> ah... so that's only true for gutsy+
<ikonia> ompaul: didn't see you there
<ompaul> ikonia,been here most weekend
<ompaul> we had a long weekend here this one - so :)
<ompaul> happy days
<ikonia> ahhh right
<ikonia> everything ok ?
<ompaul> yeap
<ikonia> mega
<Tm_T> errr
<Tm_T> !ping
<ubotu> pong
<Tm_T> bantracker is down?
<Tm_T> and just when I say it, its alive =)
<LjL> stefg: are you sure it isn't in canonical's Commercial, or vmware itself doesn't have a package, or something?
<LjL> hm kind of seems not
<jussi01> and afaik the any-any patch is needed on gutsy also...
<ubotu> ebirtaid called the ops in #ubuntu
<Tm_T> 2300 -!- MilesG [n=miles@d60-65-93-136.col.wideopenwest.com] has left #kubuntu [""im going to go cry, thanks Tm_T""]
<jussi01> Tm_T: what did you do???
<mneptok> only counts when he comes in here to complain about you
<mneptok> nice try, though. :)
<Tm_T> 2259 < Tm_T> MilesG: please stop your random noise
<jussi01> hehe
<stefg> jussi01, LjL , afaik, vmplayer 2 compiles withou any-any . only 2.6.23.1 requires it again
<jussi01> stefg: ahh, nice to know. 
<ikonia> boys, am I being dumb in wondering why help.ubuntu.com doesn't have the 7.10 docs up ?
<mneptok> ikonia: uintil i know otherwise, i'm assuming it',s because of something you did
<ikonia> thats fair, I'll carry the can
<mneptok> woo! back to blissful ignorance!
<mneptok> thanks, dude.
<mneptok> :)
<ikonia> no sweat
<ikonia> worth logging a bug ?
<ikonia> or perhaps worth whispering in someones ear
<ikonia> what team is responsible for help.ubuntu.com ?
<ompaul> ikonia, it does not have 7.10 docs
<jdong> ikonia: docteam?
<ompaul> mneptok, ^^ bug confirmed :)
 * ompaul rusn
<ompaul> then 
 * ompaul runs
<ikonia> seems a bit slack, compared to normal release to release with out docs
<ikonia> I'm sure they are aware but I'll search for an official bug first. thanks
<ompaul> ikonia, #ubuntu-docs methinks
<ikonia> gratzi 
 * ompaul hopes his memory is right
<ikonia> nope - channel doesn't exist
<ompaul> drop the s
<ompaul> sorry 
<ikonia> well done
<mneptok> if there's an #ubuntu-doc, then i'm *definitely* starting #ubuntu-grumpy
<ikonia> mneptok: register that bad boy
<ikonia> #ubuntu-doc exists and has nice guys in 
<ikonia> I'd be interested in join #ubuntu-grumpy
<Seeker`> #ubuntu-sleepy FTW
<ikonia> nah, you'd get all the "noobs" from #ubuntu-grumpy complaining that no-one is ever awake
<Seveas> #ubuntu-snowwhite
<Seveas> neh, mneptok will want to hog #ubuntu-cinderella
<ikonia> you shall go to the lug
<jdong> #ubuntu-disney-copyright-violation
<Seveas> hahahah
<ikonia> ha ha
<Tm_T> :(
<jdong> http://www.unhappybirthday.com/
<ikonia> walts boys have no cash to come after you !
<ikonia> its a free for all
<Tm_T> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJn_jC4FNDo
<mneptok> Host 'snowwhite', running Linux 2.6.20-16-server - Cpu0: Intel 2660 MHz Cpu1: Intel 2660 MHz Cpu2: Intel 2660 MHz Cpu3: Intel 2660 MHz; Up: 43d+23:18; Users: 4; Load: 0.21; Free: [Mem: 227/16241 Mio] [Swap: 1906/1906 Mio] [: / Mio] [/boot: 172/236 Mio]; Vpenis: 688 cm;
<mneptok> check that hostname, kiddos :)
<ikonia> do you have a disney "problem"
<ikonia> whoooaaa "bf - a fast brainfuck interperater"
<ikonia> while I appriciate "brainfuck" does that not seem odd for ubuntu to host in a repo ?
<Seeker`> ikonia: why would it?
<ikonia> the name
<Seeker`> its a valid program
<ikonia> totally
<ikonia> and I appriciate brainfuck is not "fuck"
<ikonia> but seems a tad odd
<Seeker`> hmm
<ikonia> maybe I'm reading too much into it
<ikonia> just caught me off guard while updating my laptop
 * Seeker` wrote a brainfuck interpreter
<LjL> ikonia, some words are to be avoided in the *ubuntu channels*, but that says nothing about what package names allowed in the repositories...
<ompaul> Seeker`, called beef?
<ikonia> LjL: I see, but for example would dicussion on brainfuck get me a slap on the wrist in #ubuntu
<Seeker`> ompaul: no
<ompaul> ikonia, I would suggest that we should cease and desist before we have to find out
<jussi01> please someone enlighten me as to what exactly brainfuck is?
<LjL> ikonia: if you ask me, that's a resounding NO. actually i often used brainfuck as an example of the fact that we aren't censoring sequences of letters per se, but the way they're used
<ikonia> ahhh sorry, wasn't testing the water
<ompaul> apt-cache search brainfuck
<ikonia> just curious as while the name is "valid" it seems a tad odd for ubuntu to "allow" it due to the coc
<Seeker`> jussi01: An esoteric programming langugae
<ompaul> jussi01, ^^
<LjL> jussi01: a little programming language that sort of resembles a more brainfucking version of a turing machine
<Seeker`> jussi01: it consists of "<>+-.,[]"
<jussi01> ahhh, sounds fun...
 * ompaul goes back to writing the document that should have been written ages ago.
<Seeker`> jussi01: its virtually unreadable
<ikonia> was it in fesity, I didn't notice it, as I said, just caught me off guard updating the laptop
<LjL> ikonia, CoC != IRC guidelines. the CoC says to "be respectful", but respecting the wish of the creator of brainfuck to call it that is a form of respect too
<Seeker`> jussi01: people have written programs to print out ascii fractals
<ikonia> LjL: thats a very fair comment
<ikonia> however the use of "offensive" language is in the coc, and well, seems a bit of a stretch on the word "Brain fuck" 
<ikonia> not got a problem with it
<ikonia> just chatting
<ikonia> I assume I'm not causing offense
<ompaul> ikonia, at this stage it is highlighting my irc too regularly :)
<ikonia> then its stopped
<ikonia> I'll refer to "BF"
<ompaul> :) call it bf
<ompaul> thanks
<ikonia> no problem, I forgot about highlighting
<ompaul> I am trying to write up my comments for tomorrows review
<LjL> ikonia: ehm actually where is that in the coc?
<ikonia> the dings from BF must be distracting
<ompaul> they are
<ompaul> back to it
<ikonia> LjL: hang on, let me have a mooch I may be wrong, just quoting from memory
<ikonia> perhaps I'm mixing up IRC guidelines and the COC
<Seeker`> the CoC does'nt reference bad language directly (from what I remember)
<LjL> ikonia: i suspect you are
<Seeker`> which is why we had probles deciding what language to allow in -uk
<ikonia> you could be right, I'm just quoting from memory
<Seeker`> ikonia: s/memory/imagination :)
<ikonia> I suppose you could argue in "uk" that "git" could be considered offensive
<ikonia> Seeker`: tottally
<Tm_T> :(
<Seeker`> we basically decided that language up to a point that isn't directed at anyone is ok, otherwise it isn;t
<ikonia> there are a few products that I guess could cause issues moderating
<LjL> ikonia: anyway, what to say about the 'pornview' package? i mean, i suppose there is no swearword there, but :)
<ikonia> point taken
<mjr> "pimppa - powerful tool to loot binaries from newsgroups smartly" â slang for female genitals in Finnish. Just a data point :]
<LjL> of course i only know that package because i stumbled upon it during random apt searches
<ikonia> LjL: too late to back track
<LjL> i mean, i'd never use a GTK application to view images
<LjL> mjr: then what about another binary newsgroup fetcher, "klibido"?
<mjr> Seeker`, seems reasonable to me
<rob> <gouki> Hi rob. I'm interested in registering #ubuntu-gamers, however, the person who registered hasn't showed up in 2 years.
<rob> dunno if he talked to any of you guys
<ikonia> rob: just request it get de-listed
<rob> ikonia, well it is up to the Ubuntu group contact what they want to do with it, so I'm looking at you irc council members :)
<ikonia> ahhh so its registered by an ubuntu member
<ikonia> sorry, I thought you where saying it was A-N Random
<Seveas> ikonia, no, it's in the ubuntu namespace
<Seveas> so it's "our territory"
<rob> yes, Ubuntu namespace :)
<ikonia> my mistake
<LjL> rob: he didn't talk to me. i'm not particularly in favor of registering obscure #ubuntu* channels without really making sure creating those channel is legitimate, anyway - although it appears that this particular one is registered already...
<Seveas> LjL, there's nothing really against registering. The channel is now empty with a contact that's not available. Qualifies for removing registration after which it's fair game :)
<rob> LjL, yes it is but the registeree hasn't been seen in some time and he wants to take over it, so I'm running it by here first. I'm assuming the irc council should be taking over it directly and maybe assigning him ops if they want.
<rob> either way, ubuntu namespace = your channels, so I'm doing you all the courtesy of deciding what you want to do with it
<rob> rather then just giving it to him :)
<Seveas> :)
<Seveas> I don't object against giving it away, but I'm almost no longer council :)
<LjL> Seveas, but was that channel *ever* an official channel? i don't think so. it's certainly not listed on the wiki at the very least. people *do* have the option of using ## channels for unofficial stuff, don't they?
<PriceChild> What's up? :/
<LjL> PriceChild: <gouki> Hi rob. I'm interested in registering #ubuntu-gamers, however, the person who registered hasn't showed up in 2 years.
<Seeker`> PriceChild: the sky
<LjL> Seeker`: hope it isn't raining then
<Seeker`> LjL: not at the moment
<Seeker`> hmm, actually, i may go try to find a comet
<PriceChild> ty ljl
<Seveas> LjL, they do but why not be liberal in allowing people to create channels in the #ubuntu namespace?
<Seveas> they do so anyway, so why not allow this registration to be dropped according to freenode guidelines for dropping channels and make it available
<nalioth> i don't have a problem with #ubuntu-whatever, so long as it's run in accordance with the CoC and !guidelines
<ubotu> astro76 called the ops in #ubuntu
<rob> my thought is that if a Ubuntu member has some legitimate ubuntu-related use for a #ubuntu- channel, why not let him at least use it with ops (registered to the council) or even let him register it.
<LjL> Seveas, they do so, but nalioth for instance has been hunting for unofficial channels a few times. actually i agree with what he just said - if it's in the #ubuntu namespace, it should *somewhat* be a sane Ubuntu-like channel IMHO. remember *cough* all the #ubuntu-offtopic variations that have been created in the past?
<Seveas> LjL, true, but that's not really the case here
<LjL> rob: i hadn't checked whether he was an ubuntu member. i saw that the *current* contact didn't have a cloak last time he joined
<Seveas> LjL, markuman left the ubuntu community a long time ago
<LjL> i see
<Seveas> gouki is an active community member, possibly ubuntu member as well
<nalioth> he is a member
<LjL> Seveas: yes, he is a member, i checked now
<Seveas> that makes it a no-brainer to me
<gnomefreak> markuman was xubuntu owner iirc he ended up giving it to crimson
<gnomefreak> crimsun
<Seveas> let's have him enjoy his latest project :)
<Seveas> gnomefreak, yup
<Seveas> over a year ago iirc
<gnomefreak> yep
<LjL> rob: you can drop the current registration as far as i'm concerned
<rob> nalioth, any objections?
<gnomefreak> ok dinner 
<nalioth> rob: whatever is easier.  drop or assign ownership
<rob> nalioth, seeing as he is no longer online, I'll just do the latter
<LjL> yeah
<LjL> i think i wouldn't be so sure about it if it weren't an ubuntu member though
<LjL> #ubuntu-gaming is registered my markuman too btw
<LjL> #ubuntu-games is register by eleaf
<rob> okay done
<PriceChild> eleaf....
<PriceChild> sounds familiar
<LjL> PriceChild: even too much so, doesn't it?
<PriceChild> good familiar or bad familiar...
<nalioth> PriceChild: bad familiar
<PriceChild> :/
<LjL> i don't know, for some reason when i think "familiar" on IRC i always think "bad familiar"
<rob> eleaf is not a ubuntu member, has several #ubuntu- channels registered
<nalioth> there are dozens of #ubuntu* channels out there
<PriceChild> LjL, mhmm
<rob> yeah
<nalioth> so long as no problems are coming from them . . . 
<nalioth> most of them have 0 users
<LjL> yeah...
<nalioth> most of them have 0 interest
<Tm_T> nalioth: can we take them over just for fun?
<nalioth> Tm_T: i personally don't have fun doing it...
<Tm_T> nalioth: then dont :)
<PriceChild> Tm_T, what, give you the powers to do it yourself? :)
<Tm_T> no
<Tm_T> if you dont find it needed, then dont do, I dont have any needs either really
<Tm_T> and yes, prolly would hurt more than gain
<rob> its kinda fun to do so if you know the owner has been abusing/trolling some project and the project requests the channel back :)
<Tm_T> rob: I would imagine so
<PriceChild> ubuntu_demon bumped his hard drive posts on planet again...
<Tm_T> PriceChild: agh, they do that too?
<PriceChild> Tm_T, ?
<Tm_T> bumping
<ompaul> I am off
<ompaul> leater
<Pici> His hackergotchi scares me.
<ompaul> later cheers
<Pici> leather ompaul 
<Seeker`> why does he keep on bumping it?
<Tm_T> Seeker`: because its Kool! ?
<Daviey> PriceChild: would it be wrong of us to just remove him from the planet? :)
<Daviey> IIRC planetplanet has the option of not allowing timestamp change
<Pici> Is he actually changing anything, like a small edit, or just bumping?
<Tm_T> any staff here?
<unagi> =(
<Tm_T> unagi: hi :))
<unagi> hello Tm_T how are you
<Tm_T> unagi: I'm fine thanks
<unagi> Tm_T: great to hear
<Tm_T> unagi: you?
<unagi> Tm_T: im doing well.......im back in honolulu and i have a date in an hour
<unagi> still bummed that i lost those pictures though =(
<Tm_T> sorry to hear that
<mneptok> unagi: how can we help you?
<unagi> i was hoping to have the ban on me lifted =(
<mneptok> unagi: seeing that when asked to change your behavior the response was "you can't ban me, just try" do you see a reason we should lift it?
<unagi> i suppose i am asking in good faith that most of what happened was a misunderstanding and that if it was lifted there wouldnt be anymore problems
<mneptok> unagi: the misunderstanding is yours. when asked to stop behavior by ops, you either do so, or accept the consequences.
<Tm_T> hm
<unagi> if the behavior mentioned was truely happening it would have stopped.........the misunderstanding was what the intent of my comments were
<Tm_T> mneptok: if you ask my opinion, lift atleast in #ubuntu
<mneptok> 22:15 < mrunagi> you cant ban me
<mneptok> 22:15 < mrunagi> ill be back
<mneptok> 22:15 < mrunagi> after i reconnect
<mneptok> 22:15 < mrunagi> but u can waste ur time if u want
<mneptok> 22:15 < mrunagi> i work on a cruise ship and get online with my cell phone so......yea
<mneptok> there is no misunderstanding there.
<mneptok> that's you stating clearly that you intend to evade a ban
<Seveas> can't really misunderstand that
<Tm_T> true
<unagi> so......yea......if you dont want to hear my explaination and want to instead ban me........thats fine.....but i will be back to finish my explaination
<unagi> it seems to me that ops cant agree on what the initial ban was about
<unagi> granted there were many reasons to actually ban me i am and will only comment on the first and inital ban
<Tm_T> unagi: you havent stated what channel you are talkinf even
<unagi> im referring to offtopic
<mneptok> unagi: and that paste is from -offtopic
<unagi> which i dont really know why i was banned from ubuntu anyway
<unagi> i understand that
<unagi> here is where the misunderstandings start
<Seveas> unagi, then maybe you should reread the logs to understand it...
<unagi> the misunderstanding isnt from me
<mneptok> i banned you from -offtopic
<mneptok> what did i misunderstand?
<Tm_T> Seveas: I think the problem is that he's banned in #ubuntu because of ban evading (but what was the original ban there?)
<mneptok> Tm_T: he's banned from #ubuntu because he stated he would start trolling there because he was banned from -offtopic.
<Tm_T> I see
<mneptok> he discussed it with Pricey, if memory serves
<Seveas> pretty much a standard action when trolls get banned
<PriceChild> Ah hello there unagi :)
<Tm_T> Seveas: yes
<Tm_T> PriceChild: hi to you too
 * mneptok makes a note of a new PChild highlight
<Seveas> so far only a handful go into klineable
<LjL> actually
<PriceChild> mneptok, :P
<Tm_T> anyway I repeat, I hope he get his ban lifted from #ubuntu
<LjL> it seems to me that unagi was banned on october 19 on quite valid grounds, and that ban was never removed
<LjL> (on #ubuntu)
<PriceChild> mneptok, its cuz my connection used to be so poor, I would reconnect with alt nick... yet still have people talking to me as "PriceChild" so I keep both as hilights.
<Seveas> I hope he does not. Doesn't show any signs of having improved on his behavior
<PriceChild> unagi, still around?
<mneptok> unagi: let's sum this up. you made dicey statements in -offtopic. an op asked you to stop. you claimed you wouldn't, as the comments were miscnostrued. you then said you'd avoid any ban by reconnecting. at which point i banned you, and you found my IRC-fu was better than your ISPs IP range. at which point you became conciliatory.
<LjL> mneptok: but even without that, there is a ban from october 19 on #ubuntu that the bot doesn't show as lifted, so he was ban evading to begin with
<PriceChild> I am also very unhappy at how you persistently refuse to accept that you might just possibly not be totally correct unagi.
<PriceChild> LjL, agreed.
<mneptok> let's be frank. you're here and asking nicely because i know how to set a proper banmask. which doesn't fill me with confidence in your promise to change.
<PriceChild> *waits for a response*
<Seveas> <unagi> so......yea......if you dont want to hear my explaination and want to instead ban me........thats fine.....but i will be back to finish my explaination
<Seveas> I don't consider that asking nicely
<Seveas> more a concealed troll-threat
<Tm_T> Seveas: that's big minus I agree
<unagi_> well consider the context it was in
<mneptok> Seveas: we have to be willing to slide the "nicely" definition scale, i think ;)
<unagi_> i was being attacked
<unagi_> by 3 or 4 people
<Seveas> heh, attacked...
<unagi_> uh
<unagi_> yea
<unagi_> attacked.....
<unagi_> people saying that i am a sexist that objectifies women
<Seveas> if that's attacked, your actions are a war
<Tm_T> unagi: hum, you werent attacked
<unagi_> no?
<Seveas> and nobody called you a sexist...
<unagi_> apparently
<unagi_> we are in a misunderstanding again
<Seveas> we explained why the ban wouldn't be lifted
<unagi_> i was commenting on what my 'threat' to evade
<unagi_> meant
<PriceChild> unagi_, you most definitely wern't being attacked... you've taken the opportunity to attack us, telling us we were wrong, that we _all_ misread everything you wrote.
<Seveas> so to sum up....
<LjL> where is the -offtopic ban, incidently?
<Tm_T> :(
<Seveas> well well
<PriceChild> *is content with that*
<Seveas> 2 different isp's?
<PriceChild> That could have lasted an hour easy.
<LjL> Seveas: i'm searching for the nickname
<PriceChild> how rare
<ikonia> kept me quietly ammused
<Tm_T> Seveas: he's in ship as said, always different ISP
<LjL> PriceChild: your client doesn't have /me, by the way? :P
<Seveas> Tm_T, I don't beleive that
<PriceChild> LjL, it does, but sometimes i choose no to use it :)
<PriceChild> I spent an hour or so the other day in pm with him and there's no way on earth he's going to even consider the possibility that he might have been wrong
<Tm_T> Seveas: I believe by his always changing ISP
<Seveas> you have to deliberately dial in with a different isp for that
<Seveas> doesn't happen automatically
<LjL> PriceChild: is that a forum thing? are you going to <quote></quote> the message you're replying to, too? :P
<PriceChild> LjL, [quote] actually.
<LjL> yeah whatever
<PriceChild> :P
<PriceChild> Nah its just a me thing :)
<Seveas> [PriceChild]me me me[/PriceChild] 
<PriceChild> me me me me....... meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
<LjL> meh
<PriceChild> no, me
<LjL> myself and i
<Seveas> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCayacFcCX4
<Seveas> :p
<PriceChild> *dances*
<Seveas> :)
<Seveas> LjL is animal :)
<Seveas> I'll be zoot :)
<mneptok> I'M A MAGICAL FAIRY PRINCESS!
<Seveas> yes dear
<PriceChild> *plays it again*9
<PriceChild> LjL, ^
<mc44> mneptok has such creative uses for his halo
<Pici> :o
<LjL> mc44: i'm still trying to find out what highlights you.
<LjL> anyway i'm not a drummer. no no no.
<Seveas> LjL, 'fairy
<Seveas> '
<LjL> you think? i was leaning on princess right now
<PriceChild> hmmmm sudoking in -bots....
<LjL> PriceChild: oh, for a moment i thought there was a sudoku bot in -bots.
<Seveas> :)
<PriceChild> He was abusing ubotwo the other day.... and nal was watching him for some reason too...
<nalioth> LjL: no, just a troll
<PriceChild> Now there he is again.
<Seveas> @admin ignore add sudoking
<ubotu> OK
<Seveas> :)
<LjL> well as long as he's in the designated playgr -- nevermind
<PriceChild> lol
<PriceChild> I'll have to take ubotwo away from ljl if you don't care and look after him.
<PriceChild> *from you ljl
<PriceChild> Haha :)
<Tm_T> :(
<Tm_T> I dont like how this unagi case turned out
<Seveas> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKcY_DNF8aY
<Tm_T> Seveas: hum, btw
<Tm_T> Seveas: possibility of gaining accees to ubotu? writing factoids and like
 * Pici waits for Seveas to list the editors here again...
<Seveas> Pici, I can't
<Pici> Seveas: aw...
<Seveas> it forces the reply to go into pm :)
<Tm_T> Pici: er?
<PriceChild> unagi's in pm....
<Tm_T> PriceChild: he's in mine
<Tm_T> PriceChild: and everything is fine by me
<Pici> Tm_T: @listeditors (or something similar) used to list all of the current factoid editors... in channel... pinging them al.
<Pici> s/al/all
<Tm_T> Pici: ah, yes
<Tm_T> @editors
<Tm_T> ?
<Tm_T> ah yes
<Tm_T> and I'm not one of them
<Seveas> I just love youtube, been listening to about 20 muppet songs now :) 
<PriceChild> Seveas, haha don't have too much of a good thing
<Pici> <3 Waldorf & Statler
<Seveas> anyone have objections against tm_t as editor?
<nalioth> waaah what a troll
<Seveas> nalioth, you liiked in the mirror again? 
<Tm_T> if does, I would then leave my op rights too
<nalioth>  /whois SudoSu
<Seveas> looked*
<Tm_T> I mean
<Tm_T> if I cant be trusted with infobot, I cant be trusted as op of major channels
<Seveas> true
<Tm_T> so anyone like to have me out, speak =)
<LjL> Tm_T: now that's a dangerous statement to make
<Seveas> YOU SUCK!
<Tm_T> LjL: I know
<Tm_T> LjL: thats why I made it
<Seveas> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n1y3U4FarU
<Seveas> !!!!
<LjL> i have no objections as long as i can revert his edits to death.
<Tm_T> =)
<LjL> also - "if does, I would then leave my op rights too" - that's a very obvious objection :P
<LjL> dyslexia doesn't help with the bot :P
<Tm_T> whats dyslexia?
<Pici> Dyslexics of the world, untie!
<PriceChild> bad pici
<Pici> :D
<PriceChild> :/
<LjL> Tm_T: writing "whats" instead of "what's"
<Seveas> @addeditor Tm_T 
<ubotu> OK
<Seeker`> @editors
<LjL> nooo
<Tm_T> LjL: I see, that's because I did at one time use too much '-sign
<Tm_T> LjL: so I'm bit cautios at times with it
<Tm_T> Seveas: I thank you sir
<LjL> Tm_T: you could exchanges ideas about that with mc44
<mc44> my use of apostrophe's i's perfect
<Tm_T> hum?
<Tm_T> LjL: whats your meanings, sirss?
<LjL> mc44: not by any mark worse than my use of final s, no.
<LjL> Tm_T: mine is just "over-fast keyboard auto-completing reflex", it's a good thing
<Tm_T> LjL: :)
<LjL> it's like x-chat autocompleting nicknames wrong, except you don't need x-chat to do it
<Tm_T> LjL: well, I have two "native" languages here and english is third, first of foreign ones
<elkbuntu> did anyone fix the opabuse factoid yet?
<Tm_T> !opabuse
<ubotu> leave the ops alone ktnxbye
<elkbuntu> it was 'seveas' before
<Seveas> elkbuntu, !
 * elkbuntu huggles Seveas
<Tm_T> elkbuntu: it would be cute to have !opabuse to be "seveas! someone is bullying me!"
<PriceChild> lol!
<Tm_T> just to make Seveas hilighted enough
<elkbuntu> cute yes, functional no.
<Tm_T> elkbuntu: my point
<Tm_T> PriceChild: can I talk with you in private a moment?
<elkbuntu> i kinda wanna know who's been messing with the factoid anyway
<PriceChild> Tm_T, sure
<Seveas> elkbuntu, it's all logged :)
<elkbuntu> Seveas, yeah, but i cant remember how to ask it
 * Tm_T hugs Tm_T
<LjL> actually it was seveas, then it was leave the ops alone kthxbye, then it was seveas again, then it was leave the ops alone kthxbye again
<LjL> i see a secret edit war going on here :P
<Seveas> elkbuntu, you can't :)
<Tm_T> ...because noone else will :(
<Seveas> LjL, the logs show only one edit
<Seveas> 500|Mez!n=Mez@ubuntu/member/mez|opabuse|2007-07-06 19:00:43.562442|leave the ops alone ktnxbye
<LjL> ah no
<LjL> !opabuse-#ubuntu-offtopic
<ubotu> SeveÐ°s
<LjL> that's why
<Seveas> heh
<Tm_T> :)))
<Pici> It has magic UTF goodness to avoid hilights
<LjL> Pici: what? where?
<LjL> (reply "oh, nothing" if you don't want a ban)
<Mez> !forget opabuse-#ubuntu-offtopic
<ubotu> I'll forget that, Mez
<Pici> LjL: /me shrugs
<LjL> PriceChild: especially after someone mentions "ops"
<elkbuntu> he's been saying dumbass things all week
<Tm_T> me?
<LjL> yup
<elkbuntu> spaceman
<elkbuntu> (see -offtopic)
<elkbuntu> he comes across as genuinely stupid, but not maliciously so
<LjL> now, granted, it was pricechild who said "ops"... but he said "kick" and "ban", and he's going to complain that all ops come up?
<Tm_T> =)
<elkbuntu> LjL, he's a low level troll in that he says things to get attention, and likes to make a fuss when he has got it
<LjL> mc44, i won't kick you from there just because it would make it way too obvious
<LjL> but you'll pay anyway
<mc44> haha
<Tm_T> jussi01: moi kaima
#ubuntu-ops 2007-10-30
 * LjL thanks nrrd
<gnomefreak> low level troll?
<gnomefreak> like shorter than a normal size troll?
<LjL> gnomefreak: one with conditional branches and bitshifts and stuff
<Tm_T> gnomefreak: yes
<Seeker`> a troll that trolls in machine code?
<Seeker`> 101000101011110101011011000011011111
<jdong> no0tic: can we help you?
<no0tic> jdong, still triggering...
<nalioth> overlords kittens
<no0tic> ?
<nalioth> no0tic: i'm a poet  :)
<Pici> and you don't know it?
<no0tic> it's a reprise? You've already written that before
<nalioth> i'm building to a crescendo
<nalioth> be patient
<nalioth> :0
<mneptok> he says that to all the girls
<no0tic> mneptok, I don't know what you think.. but I'm not a beautiful girl..
<mneptok> no0tic: you have time. and we have alcohol.
<no0tic> mneptok, I don't think you'll like it
<LjL> i could say the same to you
<no0tic> uhm.. every single minute I spend in here I become a bit more scared
<mneptok> don't worry. that feelings stops when you die.
<no0tic> I'm confident
<mneptok> :)
<mneptok> with an answer like that, you'll be just fine
<LjL> depending on your definition of "fine"
<no0tic> I'm not sure that _you_ will be fine
<no0tic> ok, I think this chat is going nowhere
<mneptok> FIAT LUX!
<no0tic> a new italian car model?
<mneptok> Latin, sweetie.
<mneptok> :)
<LjL> that was old when i was born
<Pici> They had cars when you were born?
<LjL> they had commodore 64s when i was born
<mneptok> there wasn't a computer smaller than a room when i was born :(
<no0tic> I know, but evidently nobody in fiat ever thought about that
<mc44> mneptok: weren't you at school with Charles Babbage?
<LjL> no0tic: as idiotic as they might be, they probably realize it'd make a terrible pun.
<mneptok> mc44: no. he was later. i graduated with Gotama Siddartha and Hammurabi
<LjL> mc44: don't joke about babbage now, he's my favorite loser
<no0tic> LjL, it could be the top level model
<LjL> no0tic: it would break down every saturday
<no0tic> LjL, I missed that
<mneptok> i wonder if you could turn off the headlights ...
<no0tic> mneptok, I think it would shine by its own light isotropically in space
<LjL> no0tic: e si riposÃ² nel settimo giorno
<no0tic> LjL, subtle
<mneptok> i just saw "LjL" and "subtle" together in a sentence. i can die happy.
<Madpilot> bot attack in #u?
<Tm_T> apparently
<Dave2> LjL, some of them were registered.
<Tm_T> hey
<Dave2> most, in fact.
<Pici> hm. That didnt set off any of my hilights.
<Tm_T> anyone have oprights in +1 and -motu ?
<nalioth> Tm_T: why do you ask?
<Madpilot> dail soap? wtf?
<Tm_T> nalioth: this hoora46 [i=hoora@gateway/tor/x-c3c5a358d3a38d4b]
<Madpilot> dial, even
<nalioth> Tm_T: if it's the same guy in #ubuntu, they're taken care of
<LjL> Dave2: yeah i've been an idiot, i should have set +m right away not +r
<Tm_T> nalioth: he is one of those random idlers behind tor
<LjL> but when i send the +m command it was too late, i was already been flooded
<Tm_T> nalioth: "they're taken care of" ?
<LjL> i wonder 1) who "yacc" is 2) why he *always* joins -unregged
<nalioth> Tm_T: all the bots/zombies/whatever took the k-train
<Pici> I'm guessing a healthy dose of vitamin K-line
<Tm_T> nalioth: hmm
<Tm_T> if I see those, what should I do?
<Tm_T> ban? remove? leave alone?
<LjL> nalioth: gone, uh
<nalioth> LjL: unfortunately, we can only kline 'em as we see 'em
<nalioth> i DO wish i were prescient, cuz i'd have already won every lottery in the USA
<Tm_T> er
<Tm_T> hum
<Tm_T> hum er hum
<Pici> bah, humbug
<Tm_T> nalioth: no, I believe we are talking about different bot issue then if you claim them being klined
<Tm_T> good morning Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> heya Tm_T!
<jdong> no0tic: can we help you?
<LjL> is "rowan" known?
<Tm_T> no0tic: topic?
<Pici> I dont know him.
<Tm_T> LjL: who is he?
<no0tic> er..
 * no0tic is an -it op :D
<Pici> Then again, I don't usually hang out in #ubuntu in the evening (US east coast) time.
<Tm_T> no0tic: too late =)
<LjL> [03:17:42] --> Rprp has joined this channel (n=Rprp@cc763024-b.groni1.gr.home.nl).
<LjL> this is a troll's nickname
<no0tic> Tm_T, my automessage_on_join_#ubuntu-ops plugin doens't work
<Tm_T> :(
<no0tic> I'm not able to catch the "join" event
<Pici> Why not try catching the <jdong> no0tic: can we help you?
<Tm_T> Pici: thats too late
<no0tic> Pici, it could be simpler, but I want something jdong independent
<Pici> dont we all..
<Pici> I don't really know what that means. *shrug*
<Hobbsee> LjL: indeed.
<Tm_T> :(
<stdin> Joshuaxiong1 needs a kb imo (#ubuntu)
<ubotu> stdin called the ops in #ubuntu
<Madpilot> already gone
<stdin> wasn't what I first said it ;)
<Madpilot> I just set a ban to stop that idiot, but it's kind of a crude wide ban - don't keep it up long
<Madpilot> cool, now I'm being taunted by PM
<Madpilot> idiot
<Madpilot> !staff
<ubotu> Hey nalioth, jenda, rob, SportChick, seanw, BearPerson or ompaul! I could use a bit of your time :)
<stdin> that's what /ignore was made for, and k-lines
<Madpilot> Joshuaxiong1 needs a kline
<Madpilot> massive attempted PM & DCC spam on me, now that he can't get to #u
<Madpilot> three DCC spam attacks on me now. thankfully my irc client has always been immune to that crap
<Madpilot> need sleep. night all, have fun with the trolls.
<GNine> i still do not understand your reason for banning me from -offtopic for saying "monoamine oxidase" which is a naturally occurring brain enzyme. moa42 should have been banned the second he/she suggested i should go "kill myself".  yet your course of action was entirely different. now, is there a time limit to this "ban" directive?
<Tm_T> uhm
<GNine> is that an acronym ?
<Tm_T> no
<GNine> "can you do un-bannings" or just like in vampire lore it has to be undone by the same op that issued it
<GNine> so no one cares.. good.. i thought someone might get curious as to what am i talking about .. 
<GNine> i like the sound of white noise.. makes me sleepy..  like rain
<Tm_T> GNine: ummm, just to help you there...
<Tm_T> you're not helping yourself with that attitude
<GNine> i like being creative when i type .. attitude is to be interpreted .. 
<Tm_T> yes yes
<Tm_T> !patience | GNine 
<ubotu> GNine: The people here are volunteers, your attitude may determine how fast you are helped.  Not everyone is available all the time, likewise not every answer is available instantly. See also http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines
<GNine> well.. i assumed that (...) was for technical enchilada .. this is hardly the case..  but ok.. 
<GNine> heh
<jussi01> Morning all.
<Tm_T> is AM_3 etc some known ?
<jdong> no0tic: can we help you?
 * no0tic is... well the same as yesterday
<jussi01> no0tic: you are op in -it yes?
<no0tic> jussi01, yes :)
<Tm_T> :(
<ubotu> In ubotu, ebrahim said: !Utnubu is a subproject of the Debian Project. One of Ubuntu's activities is frequently copying packages from Debian to Ubuntu. See http://wiki.debian.org/Utnubu
<ebrahim> Hi all! Got my suggestion to add Utnubu?
<Mez> @time boston
<Vorian> 6:27am In Boston
 * Seeker` wonders if Vorian has become a bot :P
<Vorian> on a very laggy connection :D
<Tm_T> what, Vorian isnt a bot?!
 * TheSheep pokes Vorian 
<Tm_T> elkbuntu: what suggestion?
<Tm_T> ebrahim: I mean
 * Tm_T hides
<TheSheep> *toc* *toc*
<Vorian> :)
<ebrahim>  !Utnubu is a subproject of the Debian Project. One of Ubuntu's activities is frequently copying packages from Debian to Ubuntu. See http://wiki.debian.org/Utnubu
<ubotu> In #ubuntu-ops, ebrahim said:  !Utnubu is a subproject of the Debian Project. One of Ubuntu's activities is frequently copying packages from Debian to Ubuntu. See http://wiki.debian.org/Utnubu
<ebrahim> Tm_T, OK?
<Tm_T> I see
<ebrahim>  !Utnubu is a subproject of the Debian Project. One of Ubuntu's activities is frequently copying packages from Debian to Ubuntu. Well, Utnubu is about the reverse, copying packages from Ubuntu to Debian. See http://wiki.debian.org/Utnubu
<ubotu> In #ubuntu-ops, ebrahim said:  !Utnubu is a subproject of the Debian Project. One of Ubuntu's activities is frequently copying packages from Debian to Ubuntu. Well, Utnubu is about the reverse, copying packages from Ubuntu to Debian. See http://wiki.debian.org/Utnubu
<jdong> no0tic: can we help you?
<no0tic> er..
<jdong> no0tic: can we help you?
<Hobbsee> he's an op
<Pici> an -t op
<jdong> no0tic: can we help you?
<no0tic> sorry.. wifi problems here in university..
<Hobbsee> any xchat gurus here?
<PriceChild> Hobbsee, I'm an xchat user.....?
<Hobbsee_> PriceChild, that probably works
<Hobbsee_> #1:  why can i only make a picture for the text window only - ont the userlist, or the channel list?
<PriceChild> Could you rephrase the question? :)
<PriceChild> I haven't a clue what picture you're making :/
<Hobbsee_> try to put a picture as the background for xchat
<Hobbsee_> it only does the text window
<PriceChild> aha...
<PriceChild> well that's what it says it'll do :P
<Hobbsee_> how do i make one take over the entire window?
<PriceChild> I haven't a clue sorry.
<Hobbsee_> :(
<PriceChild> why are you wanting to set a picture?
<Hobbsee_> because white is boring?
<Hobbsee_> well, grey, as it were
<PriceChild> cracky kde user....
<Hobbsee_> heh
<PriceChild> You could run compiz and do alt+scrollwheel :P
<Hobbsee_> that's true
<Hobbsee_> at least i've stopped it from sorting alphabetically now
<PriceChild> What's sorting alphabetically? the channel list?
<Hobbsee_> yes
<PriceChild> gah i'd get lost if i didn't do that
<Hobbsee_> oh, urgh
<Hobbsee_> you guys dont allow searching of the banlist, either
<PriceChild> Hobbsee_, /cs bans nick is your friend
<Hobbsee_> BOFH excuse #47: Complete Transient Lockout
 * Hobbsee_ slaps PriceChild  around a bit with BOFH excuse #67: descramble code needed from software company
<PriceChild> how rude :(
<Hobbsee_> i group my channels, and know the order.
<Hobbsee_> oh, #2, how do you make the channel topic wider?
<Hobbsee_> so you can actually read it all?
<Hobbsee_> doesnt appear to be click-n-drag'able.
<elkbuntu> Hobbsee, hover the mouse over it, it'll come up in a tooltip
<Hobbsee_> ah, so you cant actually force it to be shown, all the time
<elkbuntu> Hobbsee, probably is a way, i've never cared enough
<PriceChild> plus you get to see if when you enter the channel
<Jucato> Hobbsee_: trying to migrate to xchat as well? :D
<Hobbsee_> Jucato, possibly.  knotify keeps taking ages to start.
<Hobbsee_> Jucato, it still has a lot of work to go, to get it up to konvi-level, though.
<Hobbsee_> even with scripts
<Jucato> hm... that shouldn't happen... :/
<Jucato> (knotify, not you switching :P)
<Hobbsee_> i suspect it's because it hasnt preloaded or anything
<Hobbsee_> it's probably ~5 seconds
<Jucato> ah
<Jucato> probably, if konvi is the first KDE app you try to start from a fresh session
<Hobbsee_> yes
<Hobbsee> ah well
<elkbuntu> Hobbsee, what is missing that is not a superfici... err...
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: :)
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: some of it is very useful
<elkbuntu> i quite like the tooltip, means i dont lose screen realestate to huge topics
<Hobbsee> but i forget, you people like simple programs, where there is no customisations :)
<Hobbsee> i'm finding large amounts of real estate loss due to the left panel channel names - how they're indented
<elkbuntu> yeah, the indenting is a new .. feature
<Hobbsee> right
<elkbuntu> but the log snippits in dialogs was a hopworthy addition
<Hobbsee> oh, the last part of the proceeding conversation?
<Hobbsee> yeah, that's useful
<elkbuntu> yeah
<Daviey> PriceChild: has Ubuntu Demon shifted his dates again?
<PriceChild> ypu
<Daviey> 'ave a word :)
 * Hobbsee is getting sick of this laptop bug.
 * jussi01 is getting sick of having a beautiful 22" screen here with no picture on it... :(
<Mez> Jono wants the IRC team to phone the people who bitch and moan?
<Hobbsee> what?
<elkbirthday> eh?
<elkbirthday> Mez, where the heck did you get that from?
<Mez> elkbirthday, misunderstanding ;)
<Mez> was confused a lol
<Mez> lil *
<elkbirthday> guys, when jimmydee goes on about being 'feisty', he *is* using it as an euphemism in a trollish way. he's been warned and persists in using it...
<jussi01> Happy birthday elkbirthday!
<popey> 11:54:10 <+Daviey> PriceChild: has Ubuntu Demon shifted his dates again?
<popey> it's because planet ubuntu uses the modified date to sort entries
<popey> and when ubuntu demon updates his blog with new links to bugs etc, it updates the date stamp
<popey> file abug with keybuk on planet
<Daviey> popey: Ahhh.. remember i told you that i tried to fudge one and it didn't work.. I changed the "Created" date - not modified.. maybe it's that ?
<popey> yes
<popey> it has been discussed here a few times
<popey> here == boston
<Daviey> don't rub it in..
<Daviey> :)
<popey> here == boston where you aren;t
<Daviey> heh
 * popey ponders what session to attend next
<popey> ahh, excellent this room has loco stuff in next
<mattva01> excuse me, but is there any way to find out why my ip range was banned from #ubuntu
<LjL> mattva01: i can try
<LjL> mattva01: ah yes.
<LjL> mattva01: actually it's your very hostname that was banned
<LjL> mattva01: is there multiple people connected from that hostname? (not *range*, the very same IP)
<mattva01> yes 
<mattva01> hmm strange
<mattva01> we are a school
<mattva01> so I wonder if someone was trolling or something 
<LjL> mattva01: i banned an abusive user from that IP just yesterday... and another user too, because i assumed it was the same person
<LjL> the latter was also in #ubuntu-dc, i suppose that's not hard to explain if it's a school there
<mattva01> is it possible to get the name of the user?
<LjL> mattva01: yes, a minute
<LjL> mattva01: sthiyaga is the user, it happened like this
<mattva01> ah
<LjL> *** sthiyaga has joined #ubuntu     <sthiyaga> how do i control another computer in a server <sthiyaga> the same server [nobody replied for a minute or so, guess he got upset] <sthiyaga> don't be gay <LjL> !language <sthiyaga> sorry <sthiyaga> so if i have administrative rights on a server how do i control another computer with a different computer
<LjL> and then they went on spamming that last message 6 other times, hence the ban
<mattva01> I understand
<LjL> i'll remove it and replace it with a ban on the nickname
<ubotu> In ubotu, Pici said: resetpanel is <reply> To reset the GNOME panels back to their defaults, delete ~/.gconf/apps/panel/ , log out, then back in.
<Pici> ..
<mattva01> thanks,he is now being disciplined
<LjL> mattva01: please bring my apologies to ShortShorts as well if you can, as i kicked them thinking it was the same user
<mattva01> ok , no problem
<mattva01> yeah , sthiyaga is a student in our beginner cs class
<mattva01> well thanks
<mattva01> exit
<LjL> i suggest that he follows the class on network attacks, specifically about denial of service ;)
<mattva01> heh
<LjL> (the command is /quite to leave the whole network, and /part to leave just the channel, by the way)
<LjL> err, /quit, not quite /quite
<mattva01> heh,I have not used xchat in a while ,and missed the slash
<mattva01> well i'll just deny him irc access in the future
<mattva01> thanks again
<LjL> hm poor guy, i didn't really want him to be blocked from irc :P
<LjL> though i guess it won't hurt irc
<PriceChild> YAY I've got evolution syncing my calendar to my ipod.
<ompaul> anyone home? 
<ompaul> PriceChild: ?
<PriceChild> for 60 seconds yes
<ompaul> PriceChild: if you see a[*** leaving -offtopic or #ubuntu please forward them to somewhere that is not a ubuntu channel of normal use so they can join and part as they wish 
<ompaul> they seem to have conneciton problems
<ompaul> I am not on my usual client
<ompaul> so no powers 
<ompaul> etc
<PriceChild> I have to run in a second...
<PriceChild> *pokes thoreauputic*
<ompaul> okay - lets see if we have anyone else :)
<Pici> I'm around.
<ompaul> Pici: can you do #uibuntu?
 * thoreauputic pokes back
<thoreauputic> PriceChild: ?
<Pici> ompaul: no, but I can do #ubuntu
<ompaul> heh
<PriceChild> thoreauputic, was about omp.aul above
<ompaul> Pici: can you check that guy out 
<ompaul> I think he has had a connection issue for a while now
<ompaul> okay back to work 
<Pici> I guess I could toss him to #ubuntu-read-topic
<ompaul> ehh it is not great 
<Pici> hmm
<ompaul> we should get a fix your connection channel :)
<Pici> I'll send him a PM and ban then.  I'll stick a note on the tracker.
<ompaul> thanks
<ompaul> he is in -offtopic and ubuntu afik
<ompaul> or was when I last looked
<ompaul> cheers
<ompaul> got to run
<ompaul> actually yeah -read-topic is good
<ompaul> we could use that channel a bit better
<ompaul> cheers
<a[2121]e> :)
<a[2121]e> hello Pici
<Pici> are you going to keep logging in and out?
<Pici> Or are you all set now?
<a[2121]e> already i set 
<Pici> Okay. I'll unban then.
<a[2121]e> ok thx pici
<a[2121]e> im so sorry about that
<Pici> No problem :)
<a[2121]e> Pici, asl pls
<Pici> a[2121]e: No reason for you to need that info. 
<a[2121]e> jajajajaja
<a[2121]e> so what irc u use
<a[2121]e> why many irc i found at ubuntu??
<Pici> irssi, but this isnt a chatting/support channel. This is for operator issues only.  See topic.
<a[2121]e> with ubuntu... can i play GTA game same im play at windows?? :0
<Pici> a[2121]e: like I said, this isnt a support channel, please ask in #ubuntu :)
<a[2121]e> oh damn.. wrg channel
<a[2121]e> lol
<Tm_T> oh my...
<Pici> oh my indeed.
<jdong> no0tic: can we help you?
 * Pici is getting tired of that trigger
<no0tic> elkbirthday, happy birthday
<Pici> Did I say Happy Birthday yet? if not... Happy Birthday!
<Tm_T> happy today!
<Hobbsee> happy birthday elky!
<gnomefre1k> Seveas: did you ever contact that guy (not sure of name but its related to webboard posting to the pastebin)?
<gnomefreak> happy birthday elkbirthday 
<Tm_T> a[2121]e: something we can help you with?
<a[2121]e> no Tm_T.... have no idea for askin...
 * a[2121]e newbie ubuntu
<Tm_T> a[2121]e: feel free to leave this channel if no further assistance needed :)
<a[2121]e> jejejeje :)
<mneptok> elkbuntu's birthday?
<no0tic> what's the policy with tor users?
<thoreauputic>                                                          _        _    
<thoreauputic>  _ __ ___   ___  __ _ _ __    _ __ ___  _ __   ___ _ __ | |_ ___ | | __
<thoreauputic> | '_ ` _ \ / _ \/ _` | '_ \  | '_ ` _ \| '_ \ / _ \ '_ \| __/ _ \| |/ /
<thoreauputic> | | | | | |  __/ (_| | | | | | | | | | | | | |  __/ |_) | || (_) |   < 
<thoreauputic> |_| |_| |_|\___|\__,_|_| |_| |_| |_| |_|_| |_|\___| .__/ \__\___/|_|\_\
<nalioth> no0tic: what policy?
<thoreauputic>                                                   |_|                  
<jdong> thoreauputic: aaah wrap it at 60 lines kthxbye
<thoreauputic> jdong: heh
<mneptok>   __         __         __        
<mneptok>  |__|.-----.|__|.-----.|__|.-----.
<mneptok>  |  ||  -__||  ||  -__||  ||  -__|
<mneptok>  |  ||_____||  ||_____||  ||_____|
<mneptok> |___|      |___|      |___|   
<Tm_T> no0tic: banforward to #ubuntu-proxy-users perhaps?
<Tm_T> if needed that is
<nalioth> no0tic: in #ubuntu and some of the other larger *buntu* channels, tor and other proxy users are banforwarded to #ubuntu-proxy-users 
<no0tic> ok
<no0tic> thanks
<jdong> no0tic: can we help you?
<no0tic> grr
<PriceChild> Hmmm I'm unsure whether jdong is a bot because of this automated reply he has.... lets remove/ban him as unauthorised bots are not allowed, and clear it up later.
<PriceChild> While I'm at it... bots aren't allowed cloaks either 8-)
 * Seveas removes PriceChild 
<PriceChild> Hey Seveas :)
<Seveas> heya
 * nalioth initiates his random number generator to find out who gets kickbanned.  PriceChild gets assigned slot 1 though 99.
<nalioth> jdong: it's not so funny any more  :|
<PriceChild> What'd I do :'(
<no0tic> definitely
<ompaul> Pici, ??
<Pici> ompaul: the reconnecting guy?
<ompaul> aye
<Pici> Turns out he was doing it on purpose because 'he was testing out different clients'
<ompaul> idiot
<Pici> And then when he came in here to be unbanned he starting asking questions like  <a[2121]e> Pici, asl pls
<ompaul> yeah lets see what it looks like
<ompaul> hehe
 * ompaul rofl
<ompaul> that is stupid in the main
<TheSheep> there should be #ubuntu-pink ;)
 * ompaul looks at TheSheep 
<Pici> TheSheep: And what would be the purpose of that channel?
<ompaul> Pici, for showing off pink desktops I would assume
<TheSheep> Pici: general lolling, I guess
<Pici> TheSheep: I thought thats what #ubuntuforums was for
 * TheSheep contemplates his toes
<ompaul> TheSheep, we don't do general lolling we do actual lolz
<Pici> Epic Lulz
<Seveas> Pici, asl?
<Pici> !coc-jbj | Seveas 
<ubotu> Seveas: a/s/l?
<Seveas> LOL
<Seveas> I already forgot that one
<ompaul> !coc-jbj
<ubotu> a/s/l?
<ompaul> ahh 
 * ompaul grimaces
 * TheSheep blinks
<ubotu> In ubotu, stdin said: !no build-essential is <alias> compiling
<stdin> someone want to add that?
<Pici> It already is?
<Pici> !-build-essential
<ubotu> build-essential is <alias> compiling - added by Seveas on 2006-06-18 17:36:56
<stdin> how come that didn't work in #k ?
<Pici> It should.
<Seveas> !build-essential-#kubuntu
<Seveas> <ubotu> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<stdin> ah, he put "essensial" not "essential" ;p
<jdong> nalioth: oops just saw it, forgot about having it in, removing it promptly.
<PriceChild> Pici, I saw that!
<ubotu> bruenig called the ops in #ubuntu
<ubotu> dgjones called the ops in #ubuntu
<ubotu> peeps[work] called the ops in #ubuntu
<Tm_T> ummmm
<Tm_T> I'm going to take some weeks off from IRC, too much noise to me in this condition
<ompaul> I found it useful to remove the client from the menu / the path for while 
<ompaul> it allowed me do some work I needed to
<jdong> ompaul: removing the client is extremely important towards getting off IRC
<jdong> as is locking sudo access
<jdong> I find that unfortunately neither works for me :(
<ompaul> :)
<jdong> I might need you guys to kline me when final exam season comes ;-)
<Seveas> jdong, we could get you a K-line
<Seveas> lol
<jdong> Seveas: one step ahead :)
 * nalioth opens his briefcase.  A light shines out and illuminates his face.
<nalioth> we could do worse than a kline, jdong 
<nalioth> muwahahahahaha
<jdong> :)
<kbrooks> um, there's a !u factoid. why?
<jdong> nalioth: I'll probably need the worst you got to encourage me to study :)
<Seveas> kbrooks, because people use 'u' 'r' etc. instead of speaking english
<jdong> is there an !i factoid for Mac users? :)
 * jdong just had a rush of bad therapy memories fly by.....
<jdong> "!i is When expressing dissatisfaction, please try using I feeling words rather than You accusing words"
<jdong> muahahaha
<kbrooks> Seveas, okay, but how do we discourage other people from using it? sorry if i look dumb asking that kind of question in here
<mneptok> iBrator
<PriceChild> kbrooks, I'm confused... how do we discourage other people from using it?
<PriceChild> shh now mneptok 
<nalioth> kbrooks: u r da BOMB, man!
<ompaul> !l33t | nalioth 
<ubotu> nalioth: 1337 i5 nigh-inc0mpr3h3n5ib13 70 u5 n00bs, 4nd n0b0dy c4r35 if UR 4 1337 h4x0r. Giv3 i7 4 r357.
<nalioth> kbrooks: u r da k00lz0r
<kbrooks> *laugh* nalioth: thx ;-) 
<nalioth> kbrooks: it's not a standard part of english, and it's irritating
<kbrooks> oh right
<nalioth> this is not AOL.
<PriceChild> *is still confused about kbrooks' latest question*
<jdong> yeah, discourage people from using "u" in sentences or abusing the !u factoid?
<kbrooks> jdong, former 
<jdong> kbrooks: meh, give them the factoid once and hope they stop?
<jdong> kbrooks: what else can we do without electrodes?
<kbrooks> jdong, and if they don't? (true that)
<Seveas> kbrooks, we kill them
<jdong> kbrooks: can't say we didn't warn them, then :)
<mneptok> 3Y3  4M  7}{3  1337  84D455  7}{47'5  74|<1|\|'  U|2  5}{IZZ0|2(}{  |)0\/\/|\|  !!!!!ONE!11!!!one111
<kbrooks> kk ty ;-) byeeeeeeeeee now.
<kbrooks> mneptok, i only got "i am the elite bad***"
<mneptok> "eye am the l33t badass that's takin' ur shizzorch down"
<Pici> Thats takin you to schizzol2h down
<Pici> That doesnt even make sense
<mneptok> precisely
<mneptok> it makes it more authentic
<kbrooks> lol 
<ompaul> mneptok, we knew you cared :)
 * mneptok purrs gently
<kbrooks> we are so "leet"...<suspense>... but seriously, who cares?
<ompaul> kbrooks, perhaps, now you perceive that "l33t" speak is rather, petty, and does not communicate the inner workings of a kernel rather well?
<ompaul> or for that matter python.language
<mneptok> kbrooks: my girlfriend cares
<Seveas> ompaul, 10100101001001010010010010100010101001010101010100101010010101010001000101010101111101010110101001001
<PriceChild> mneptok, don't kid yourself
<kbrooks> ompaul, lol, python is not petty 
<mneptok> kbrooks: when i use 1337, she's all "135814|\|15|\/|  f0 |21`/  !!11!!!"
<ompaul> kbrooks, the irony was the use of python.<<< 
<kbrooks> mneptok, lol 
<PriceChild> lol
<ompaul> Seveas, I could say: 1000010101011010010101101001101010111101011011101011101 but I won't ;-)
<Seveas> ompaul, you wouldn't dare...
<ompaul> I would 
<ompaul> Seveas, 1000010101011010010101101001101010111101011011101011101
<PriceChild> how dare he
<ompaul> perhaps
 * ompaul actions the conversation
 * ompaul coughs
<Seveas> now that's truly 1010100101010101001010101001010101001010101001010101001010010010101010011010010100010101001010010101010
<ompaul> Seveas, you are only saying that cos it is Wednesday tomorrow
<Seveas> true
<ompaul> see 
<ompaul> as I said it, so it was
<mneptok> 01100001 01101110 01110101 01110011
<ompaul> whats with the spaces, you registering something there mneptok? ;-)
<mneptok> it's so you can insert stuff in it
<ompaul> ahh k
<Seeker`> These segfaults are giving me a headache
<Seeker`> :(
<jdong> Seeker`: what do you get when an earthworm develops a genetic mutation in the production of annuli?
<jdong> ok, that was an awful bionerd joke.
<jdong> forgive me, world.
<Pici> I have a bad feeling about this
<jdong> Pici: a segmentation fault!
<jdong> people who get that joke without googling should probably do my bio homework for me.
<Pici> A null... something
<Seeker`> it wont let me free some memory, but valgrind complains that there is unfreed memory
<unagi> hello
<ompaul> evening
<unagi> how are you
<ompaul> couldn't be better
<unagi> glad to hear
<nalioth> something we can help you with, unagi ?
<unagi> well the powers at be that have the quarrel with me dont seem to be speaking but i suppose im here to ask yet again for my bans in ubuntu and ubuntu-offtopic to be lifted
<ompaul> how did you find yourself banned in both of those channels?
<unagi> im not completely sure why i was banned in ubuntu........but in offtopic there was a major misunderstanding and my attempt to explain was dubbed trolling
<nalioth> unagi: they'll be lifted when they're lifted.
<nalioth> most bans don't last more than 24 hours
<unagi> i admit that in the midst of the confusion i did state that if i was banned id be able to come back and finish my explaination
<nalioth> folks that keep reminding us, we seem to remember why we banned 'em longer
<unagi> obviously i was wrong
<unagi> well the problem nalioth is if i were initially banned for a just reason i wouldnt be here asking for it to be lifted
<nalioth> unagi: unfortunately, _nobody_ feels their ban was 'just'.
<LjL> unagi, didn't we already have this discussion yesterday? you were banned from #ubuntu on October 19, that ban was never lifted, that ban was legitimate, so you were ban evading. what's the point of discussing anything else?
<unagi> the ban evasion wouldnt have happened if i wasnt initially banned for an unjust reason
<unagi> i was banned for 'objectifying women' when the comment wasnt meant to signify that
<LjL> unagi: you're talking about the -offtopic ban, aren't you?
<unagi> yes
<LjL> well, i'm not talking about that.
<LjL> i'm talking about the #ubuntu ban of October 19.
<unagi> i dont know what that ban was for
<LjL> you don't? weird, as you were repeatedly kicked before being finally banned, that day
<PriceChild> By the way unagi was banned from here last night... however he's on a radically different hostname so it isn't affecting him...
<unagi> so the ban here wasnt lifted?
<PriceChild> No.
<unagi> thats the problem i have no way of knowing
<unagi> im not trying and never was trying to cause a problem
<LjL> you have no way of knowing which ISP you're connecting to? seriously?
<unagi> seriously...
<unagi> i work in hawaii on a cruise ship.......so i dont have my own internet
<unagi> i have my phone which changes ip addresses and public wifi.....which is rarely the same
<ompaul> well I request you leave
<ompaul> given your other ban was not removed
 * gnomefreak thinks we can "fix" this
<unagi> will the ban ever be lifted?
<unagi> please dont....im not trying to cause a problem
<PriceChild> unagi, I don't believe you.... you've repeatedly refused to accept any responsibility, denying everything we have accused you of... and you keep coming back.
<ompaul> unagi, I asked
<nalioth> unagi: every time i've seen you in here, you have not once articulated why your ban(s) were unwarranted.
<gnomefreak> ompaul: that was nice of you ;)
<ompaul> folks I did ask 
<ompaul> now I action it
<unagi> because when i try nalitoth im banned in the middle of the explaination
<unagi> like now
<PriceChild> unagi, you really aren't.
<gnomefreak> damn
<jdong> look at the lart action
 * jdong STILL thinks lart needs an ircatwork ban
 * gnomefreak wonders why my script doesnt do that
<ompaul> jdong, you can do it any time you like
<jdong> Seveas: ^^ pretty please with aspartame and dextrose on top?
<PriceChild> He's had so much of our time.
<ompaul> well he is looking for my time now
<nalioth> ah, great ompaul 
<nalioth> now he's bugging me in PM
<ompaul> nalioth, he has been bugging all ops in pm
<ompaul> so it appears
<LjL> hasn't bugged me in pm yet
<gnomefreak> not me yet and no thats not an invite 
<nalioth> LjL: i can send him your way <EG>
<LjL> nalioth: see gnomefreak above
 * gnomefreak looking into irssi (they lied summer of 2006) and im hoping that false
<nalioth> i can send him to both you  <EG>
<LjL> i
<Seeker`> gnomefreak: huh?
<ompaul> nalioth, he got a very short lecture from me on ban evasion = the most silly thing you can do 
<LjL> i'll tell him we'd all be glad to unban him but nalioth is so strongly against it
<ompaul> tell him to check it ou
<ompaul> out
<ompaul> hehe
<ompaul> LjL, you are evil
<gnomefreak> Seeker`: during 2006 summer of code* they stated they were going to add python support to irssi
<LjL> just reacting to evilness :P
 * jdong looking into gnomefreak's sentence (he lied it sense) and im hoping that is rephrased
<jdong> gnomefreak: yeah, that's been up there for a long time
<jdong> gnomefreak: I'd like to see some non-perl scripting
<gnomefreak> me too
<jdong> I'd even take like Boo over this :)
<jdong> lol
<gnomefreak> but how frigging hard can it be irssi is not a big source at all
<jdong> I tried weechat for a while
<jdong> but weechat's scripting API IMO is pretty silly
<jdong> as far as I could see or ask, there's no way to get the mode of a single user without iterating over ALL users in the channel and testing for that username
<jdong> and similar retardedness like that
<gnomefreak> thats no good
<ompaul> nalioth, I am willing to remove that ban and invite him in here and tell him to come back in $days or some such for all the ban evading -- where that $days is felt to be okay by LjL gnomefreak and yourself with any other good contribs 
<gnomefreak> what was he banned for?
<nalioth> ompaul: i have no dog in this (except it's become a recurring event)
<LjL> no sooner than a month. just look at the bantracker - which doesn't even list what happened in -offtopic (for some reason)
<ompaul> bot down time
<gnomefreak> again?
<ompaul> gnomefreak, no the other day when he was banned methinks
<gnomefreak> ah
<ompaul> gnomefreak, your feeling on days
<ompaul> mine is 20 ljl is 1 month
<ompaul> yours is?
<gnomefreak> not sure why he was banned to begin with
<nalioth> then give him a week and pull the bans
<ompaul> gnomefreak, the ban evasion is more important at this stage afics
<gnomefreak> but what you 2 feel is fine with me.
<LjL> [00:11:39] <annoyed> do you seriously think that if i was banned for a just reason i would be here trying to explain
<LjL> here's my PM
<LjL> with a new nickname
<gnomefreak> him again :(
<LjL> (same ident though - he's an idiot)
<gnomefreak> i know that name
<Seeker`> he has used that nickname before
<LjL> [00:12:20] <LjL> yes, just about every serious troll does that
<LjL> [00:12:32] <unagi> thats great but im not a troll
<LjL> changed nick again...
<PriceChild> LjL, i think the original ban shown on the bantracker was a replacement for an evaded one iirc
<LjL> i *think* he's trying to evade this last ban
<nalioth> unban him please, so he can come back in here
<LjL> not sure what makes me think that
<ompaul> he did
<ompaul> 10 days?
<ompaul> LjL, ?
<ompaul> PriceChild, ?
<PriceChild> 10 days?
<ompaul> nalioth, ?
<ompaul> gnomefreak, ?
<LjL> nah, not 10 days, please
<nalioth> 10 is fine
<ompaul> LjL, he does it again he gets the big clamp
<gnomefreak> 10
<ompaul> LjL, pm
<LjL> PriceChild, note that the "original" ban on the bantracker, again, was on october 19, not 26 (or whatever)
<PriceChild> LjL, yes
<ompaul> LjL, that is from today btw
<unagi> i just wish that people could put themselves in my shoes for a second
<ompaul> unagi, no 
<unagi> no?
<ompaul> unagi, please wait
<unagi> ok
<nalioth> unagi: please explain yourself (and don't beat around the bush)
<LjL> (logs help, for the record)
<mneptok> oooo! i missed unagi!
 * mneptok 's karma is looking up!
<ompaul> mneptok, no you didn't
<LjL> mneptok: ssssh, don't deconcentrate him
<unagi> the initial ban was for 'objectifying women' when my comment was not meant to signify that. it was a misunderstanding that i understand why it would look that way. but when i tried to explain i was accused of trolling and was told i was going to be banned for my comment, i therefore stated that the ban would not matter because i would be back to explain myself whether it was heard then or later. turns out i was wrong about not be able to b
<unagi> e banned so i wasnt able to explain, i came in here to try and explain and was yet again accused of trolling because i would refuse to admit iw as objectifying women, each time i try to explain i am told what i think and what i feel instead of understanding that my intentions were misread.
<gnomefreak> jdong: do you know python+perl
<unagi> basically it snowballed and i made many mistakes since but the fact of the matter is if i was allowed to explain myself initially it might have been cleared up............i only ever got around bans to try and explain myself
<PriceChild> unagi, the original ban was _NOT_ for objectifying women and I have tried to explain this to you countless times...
<unagi> and as i tried to tell you
<PriceChild> That was just a factor that contributed to the decisino to ban.
<unagi> whether it was because of the comment or threatening to ban me becvause of the comment it is all related
<unagi> i only said that about getting around the ban because i was being threatened to be banned because of the comment
<unagi> so even if it was because of the comment of the ban if i was allowed to explain without the threat that would have never been said
<unagi> there were 4 people at the time calling me a sexist
<unagi> and i felt vulnerable and attacked......and then the threat of the ban came
<unagi> that is where my mistakes started
<PriceChild> the mistakes started well before that.
<unagi> but u just said that it wasnt because of the comment
<unagi> the comment was before that
<PriceChild> the "comment" about the user's girlfriend... the threat that you would evade bans...
<PriceChild> *head desks*
<mneptok> unagi: the real question now is ... when do the mistakes *end*?
<PriceChild> I said the "comment" was not the only unique reason for the ban.... it was one of many.
<LjL> unagi, let's rewind a little. how do you explain the fact that you were kicked, like, 7 times on october 19 from #ubuntu? and, you've been around since at least august, so i doubt you didn't know the rules
<mneptok> unagi: coming here *every single day* with the same old "i'm misunderstood!" story is a mistake.
<unagi> i dont know who to reply to first 
<ompaul> unagi, address us all
<ompaul> unagi, we don't need any one person addressed specifically
<unagi> ljl most of the kicks after the first kick was for 'ban evading' trying to resolove the issue
<LjL> unagi, no. october 19.
<LjL> not october 2x
<unagi> if coming here trying to tell you its a misunerstanding is a mistake then i am sorry.........but i refuse to say that i was objectifying women
<unagi> the mistakes end when it is understood that i never meant for any of this to happen, and that if the bans were lifted there would be no problems
<unagi> not all 'ban evades' were actually evading
<unagi> because like i said i open xchat my channels open...........if they connect they connect
<unagi> again in trying to explain that i dont have my own inet connection i was banned for trolling
<unagi> im not a troublemaker and there has never been a problem with me before the comment in offtopic
<unagi> any trouble that there has been with me lately is directly related to the first ban
 * gnomefreak missing a channel
<unagi> in fact at first i was never really banned from ubuntu.......just silences
<ompaul> unagi, you got to work it out, if the rest of the world thinks you are wrong, perhaps you need to adjust the measure you are using. This is just a comment, a piece of advice so to speak.
<unagi> i just dont know what to do....
<unagi> ill admit that i was ban evading........not to cause trouble but to explain
<unagi> yes it is against the rules
<unagi> and it was wrong for me to threat the evasion i guess i never really saw it as that big of a deal
<unagi> but my comment that day was misunderstood and i didnt mean for it to be read that way
<mneptok> unagi: you were banned from #ubuntu on October 19 at 3:18
<unagi> so if i am suppose to admit that im a sexist objectifying pig i cannot do that because thats not what it meant
<mneptok> unagi: you reappeared 4 minutes later from another IP
<mneptok> unagi: "2007-10-19T05:21:26 <unagi> not my fault sprint renews ip addresses when you reconnect"
<unagi> that is a true statement
<mneptok> unagi: let's be plain. you got a new IP lease to evade a ban.
<LjL> and kicked at:  03:17:19, 03:18:14, 03:21:36, 03:40:09, 03:43:10
<LjL> which is quite impressive if you ask me
<gnomefreak> brb
<mneptok> unagi: do NOT insult me by asking me to believe differently
<unagi> i wont sit here and say every time wasnt to get a new ip
<mneptok> unagi: you, sir, are an active ban evader. you threaten to do in, and actually actively do it.
<unagi> but i also wont say every time was
<unagi> im not going to do it anymore is what im trying to say
<mneptok> unagi: that's wy you're banned
<unagi> and the only reason i ever did was to try and explain
<ompaul> unagi, and I point to my last piece of advice
<mneptok> unagi: you made piss-poor decisions. live with them.
<ompaul> unagi, you got to work it out, if the rest of the world thinks you are wrong, perhaps you need to adjust the measure you are using. This is just a comment, a piece of advice so to speak.
<LjL> unagi, also judging from all those kicks on October 19, you seem to easily get upset and definitely lose your temper when people "piss you off". you said this happened after the -offtopic ban, but i'm seeing that it happened before, too
<unagi> my adjustment was to no longer evade and come in here and discuss it civally
<LjL> you should rethink that attitude, if you want to live peacefully on IRC
<ompaul> unagi, so I have a proposition for you
<unagi> i tend to lose my temper when people tell me what i think
<unagi> or what my intentions are
<unagi> which is what pricechild does constantly
<unagi> my phone will turn itsself off and i have to turn it back on and reconnect
<unagi> half the time that is what happens
<unagi> now like i said i will admit thats not what always happened
<unagi> i did disconnect to be able to try and continue to explain
<unagi> but i never did it to be mischeivious or defiant
<unagi> i just feel lost without the support channel
<ompaul> unagi, are you going to stop?
<unagi> yes
<ompaul> as in now 
<PriceChild> I really can't see how you can try to make us believe you intentionally evaded bans, but weren't trying to be defiant.
<unagi> you never saw anything i try to tell you PriceChild
<unagi> you instead chose to insult me
<ompaul> unagi, and again is it possible, and you got to work it out, if the rest of the world thinks you are wrong, perhaps you need to adjust the measure you are using. This is just a comment, a piece of advice so to speak.
<unagi> so will the bans ever be lifted....or am i going to have to reformat and find another flavor of linux
<ompaul> threats will work well with someone is trying to meet you some of the way 
<ompaul> good call
<unagi> no no no
<unagi> i didnt mean it as a threat
<unagi> i mean i cant do this without the channel
<unagi> i also do my work with linux version of maya
<ompaul> so read what I said
<unagi> i think i dont understand exactly what you mean
<ompaul> well read it again, I'll be back in a moment
<unagi> im not sure what measure you are suggesting
<ompaul> when you refuse to consider that other people should think your words mean what you think they mean when you obviously had several people suggest they did not
<ompaul> does your measure work with the rest of the world
<unagi> ive admitted previously that i can see how my comment was misunderstood.........
<unagi> but my intention was never for my words to mean what it was perceived to mean
<unagi> and that will never change........but i am sorry for the misunderstanding
<unagi> and i wish i had chosen better words at the time
<unagi> did i lose inet or is everyone just quiet =/
<PriceChild> We are quiet.
<unagi> oh
<LjL> unagi, i suggest that you come back here in about 10 days. i think the bans will be lifted then. however, i want to tell you in advance that you will at most be given *one* more chance, and no misbehavior of any kind will be tolerated - you will be simply banned and then ignored if that happens.
<unagi> thank you, have a great day
<LjL> unagi: during said ten days, find the time to read the CoC and the IRC guidelines, as well as everything below:
<LjL> !etiquette
<ubotu> Unsure how you should behave on this channel? See !AskTheBot, !CoC, !Guidelines, !Offtopic, !Language, !Attitude, !Repeat, !Enter, !Paste, !NickSpam - and most importantly, use common sense :-)
<ompaul> you can msg the bot with any of those topics and find out what they actually mean
<unagi> thank you.......bye everyone!
<ompaul> unagi, now we ask you to leave, not have us remove you and actually come back in 10 days
 * ompaul wonders
<TheSheep> why is that people tend to be so preoccupied with proving they were innocent in the first place, instead of fixing the situation and moving on?
<ompaul> it is very hard to say, no, and it is very hard to say, I was wrong
<TheSheep> ompaul: good point
<ompaul> TheSheep, and the thing is that if you put your hands up, people will work with you to get it sorted
<ompaul> and if you say no people will respect you
<ompaul> but there ya go
<mneptok> http://art.gnome.org/users/kaizera
<TheSheep> egos are hungry beasts
<ompaul> No binary blobs, and I am not always right
<gnomefreak> 10 days still?
<ompaul> gnomefreak, yes
<gnomefreak> ok brb
<ompaul> so say the 9th of Nob
<ompaul> nov ember even
<ompaul> hehe
<ompaul> I got me a new calendar
<ompaul> ohh noes its that italian op person  :)
<LjL> ompaul: 00101111 01101101 01101111 01100100 01100101 00100000 00100011 01110101 01100010 01110101 01101110 01110100 01110101 00100000 00101011 01100010 00100000 01110101 01101110 01100001 01100111 01101001 00101010 00100001 00101010 01000000 00101010
<LjL> </binary blob>
<ompaul> heh
<ompaul> right so folks I am off to sleep
<ompaul> cheers
<no0tic> hi
<no0tic> bye
<Pici> bye
<nalioth> why, oh why, does sudoking strike me as a troll playing with us?
<LjL> because he is, most likely
<PriceChild> nalioth, gah... wher enow?
<nalioth> PriceChild: #kubuntu-offtopic 
<PriceChild> lovely
#ubuntu-ops 2007-10-31
<nalioth> i especially love his nick "sudosu"
<LjL> next one will be SudoPasswdRoot
<tonyyarusso> sudoku?
<LjL> tonyyarusso: oh, so i'm not the only one who thought that.
<tonyyarusso> LjL: hehe
<tonyyarusso> It's the only logical brain progression.
<no0tic> sudoking is someone who's playing sudoku, it seems clear to me
<no0tic> to sudoke.. I'm sudoking, it sounds good
<jdong> gnomefreak: late response, I know python and ruby fairly fluently, perl I know enough that I can hack some simple code and get by; by no means fluent
<gnomefreak> jdong: hmmmmm
<gnomefreak> jdong: how hard would it be to turn py code into perl?
 * jdong cries a bit about hybridized orbitals
<jdong> gnomefreak: at the mechanics, extremely easy
<jdong> gnomefreak: the bigger challenge is mapping all the Python API calls to Perl ones
<gnomefreak> that could cause a problem
<jdong> gnomefreak: is this relatd to porting chanserv.py to chanserv.pl? ;-)
<gnomefreak> yep
<gnomefreak> :)
<jdong> gnomefreak: tell ya what
<gnomefreak> or adding parts to it
<jdong> gnomefreak: when my school load clears up (i.e. winter break), I *definitely* want to do that
<jdong> gnomefreak: I got 10% there to cloning chanserv.py as chanserv.rb for weechat
<gnomefreak> jdong: i would be glad to help if needed
<jdong> then the weechat API pissed me off and I stopped that
<jdong> hopefully irssi would be more sane.
<gnomefreak> lol
<gnomefreak> i was thinking of trying weechat
<jdong> gnomefreak: trying to figure out who's opped and not via scripting is a looping construct.
<jdong> that threw me over the edge
<jdong> gnomefreak: weechat is okay, but IMO not as good as a properly customized irssi
<jdong> gnomefreak: out of the box, IMO weechat is better configured than irssi
<jdong> but it's much less configurable overall
<gnomefreak> really?
<jdong> yeah
 * gnomefreak loves irssi
<jdong> I also strongly disagree with some of their UI decisions
<gnomefreak> weechats?
<jdong> for example, /bans outputs the list of bans for the current channel into the "server window"
<jdong> which is painful and confusing
<jdong> unbans cannot be referred to by a number (that I can see)
<gnomefreak> thats not very helpful
<jrib> no love for irssi-python?
<jdong> jrib: does it exist?
<gnomefreak> jrib: not yet
<gnomefreak> jdong: 2006 SOC they ssaid they were working on it
<gnomefreak> never seen it surface
<jrib> jdong: depends on your definition of "exist" but I've been using it for over a year
<jdong> gnomefreak: yeah, I've seen that on their website
<jdong> jrib: tell us more
<gnomefreak> jrib: you added py support to irssi?
<jrib> http://svn.irssi.org/repos/irssi-python/ 
<jrib> gnomefreak: yep
<jdong> gnomefreak: personally as far as porting chanserv goes, IMO it's not much different between py and pl
<jdong> gnomefreak: the majority of the grunt will be mapping xchat API's onto irssi's
<gnomefreak> jdong: even adding the commands to auto_serv_bleh
<gnomefreak> jrib: still supports perl?
<jrib> gnomefreak: yep, it's just a plugin for irssi
<gnomefreak> jdong: seems that part has been done i just hope it supports both
<jrib> I needed to do this in order to compile successfully: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/42763/
<jdong> jrib: is it stable?
<jrib> jdong: has been for me.  Problem is it is unmaintained.  Only issue I have come across is I don't know how to write scripts that do completion
<gnomefreak> jdong: changelog says first release
 * gnomefreak not good with svn
<jdong> meh I'll play with it later...
<gnomefreak> spend most of my time playing with bzr
<jdong> perl scripting is fine for now, just need to find patience and time to learn irssi
<jdong> gnomefreak: client side UI to svn is very similar to bzr
<jdong> gnomefreak: server side UI to svn makes you jump off a cliff :)
<gnomefreak> so just svn "checkout" http://svn.irssi.org/repos/irssi-python/?
<jdong> gnomefreak: in fact, a bzr "checkout" (bound branch) has virtually identical commandset
<jdong> gnomefreak: yep, checkout
<jdong> gnomefreak: commit would be commit (if you had write access)
<jdong> diff, log, and so on are all identical
<gnomefreak> cool
<gnomefreak> but nothing like cvs i hope
<jdong> lol
<gnomefreak> cvs is a pain to learn compared to bzr
<jdong> svn is actually quite sane to use/learn on both the client and server side
<jdong> IMO svn servers are more trouble than one bargains for
<jdong> CVS is just a nightmare
<gnomefreak> i agree
<gnomefreak> mozilla uses cvs
<jdong> epseically combined with like a ssh authentication method, setting up even a client makes you cry
<gnomefreak> jrib: those commands on pastebin should do it all?
 * gnomefreak doesnt see ./configure
<gnomefreak> nor make
<jrib> you still need to run ./configure and make
<gnomefreak> after those commands right?
<jrib> oh and you need a copy of the irssi source in the right spot
 * gnomefreak wonders wth libtoolize is
<gnomefreak> jrib: that would help i guess, does it have to be upstreams?
<jrib> gnomefreak: no idea, I have 0.8.10 in there
<gnomefreak> .8.11-0ubuntu1
<jdong> gnomefreak: just get a 1-page perl primer. it'll be faster ;-)
<gnomefreak> ;)
 * jdong wonders if one can use regex to match parameters.....
<jdong> ooh NOW I'm really tempted to write chanserv.pl and stop studying chem
<gnomefreak> lol chem is fun
<jdong> gnomefreak: good you can take my test for me.
<gnomefreak> jdong: be glad to
<jdong> are you at UDS?
<gnomefreak> i wish
<gnomefreak> i have court tomorrow so i couldnt make it to UDS
<jdong> yeah you wish, then you can take my test for me right down the street.
<gnomefreak> i never said it was easy just fun
<gnomefreak> :)
<jdong> :)
<gnomefreak> hmmmmmm
<jdong> first rule of this place, nothing is fun anymore :)
<jdong> second rule: there's three bridges within walking distance. It's a natural barrier. Indecision between which bridge to use prevents more suicides than long holiday breaks.
<jrib> heh
<no0tic> apart from me and my joins.. there ever was something fun here?
<jdong> no0tic: pfft fun in the ops channel....
<jdong> no0tic: how canst we helpest thee?
<gnomefreak> normally the fun happens in #ubuntu-ops-happy-hour
<gnomefreak> thats not a bad idea
<gnomefreak> ;)
<no0tic> jdong, I r inzide you brein, eating your fun
<gnomefreak> ok i will test my hand at irssi-pyton tomorrow i have to get some sleep tonight and seamonkey is kicking my mem/cpus ass
<gnomefreak> night all
<PriceChild> flaccid in #kubuntu
<jdong> PriceChild: you might want to put an "is" somewhere in that statement
<PriceChild> not really...
<Hobbsee> trolling, or just there?
<jdong> PriceChild: but I know, KDE isn't all that sexually thrilling ;-)
<PriceChild> I removed him the other day...
<PriceChild> I think he just realised I didn't ban him at the same time.
<jdong> you'd want like #ubuntu-e17 or something
<PriceChild> !ohmy | jdong 
<ubotu> jdong: Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family friendly.
<jdong> ow, those beeps hurt when ALSA is broken!
<nalioth> jdong: huh?
<PriceChild> ping jdong
<jdong> AAAHHHH
<no0tic> jdong, ?
<jdong> y'all suck
<jdong> no0tic: I thought I was smarter than the ALSA devs and did some codec patching.
<jdong> oops.
<jdong> now sound is like the auditory equivalent of electroshock therapy
<jdong> and somehow I broke mute too.
<PriceChild> hmmm i don't have any of your im accounts to ping you on jdong...
<jdong> PriceChild: it's fortunate I'm not logged in either :)
<PriceChild> *fires up skype*
<nalioth> jdong: #ubuntu-e17 ?
<jdong> PriceChild: why would I start skype if ALSA was broken?
<jdong> nalioth: I doubt it actually exists :)
<PriceChild> jdong, I don't know but it would be good if you did
<jdong> nalioth: was trying to think of a window manager that's genuinely sexy
<PriceChild> e17's ridiculous... and it runs so well
<jdong> PriceChild: that's the sexiness...
<PriceChild> on old hardware
<PriceChild> I choose it over xfce any day
<jdong> you'd expect it to take similar tolls as compiz for its glamor
<jdong> but it doesn't.
<PriceChild> mhmm
<jdong> the only thing about E17 is that the speed of the product is balanced by the glacial release cycle :)
<PriceChild> hehe
<jdong> hence conservation of space-time is preserved.
<PriceChild> the menus annoy me a little...
<PriceChild> haven't used it in aaaages though
 * nalioth runs E17 on his new(er) hardware
 * tonyyarusso wishes E17 would be a) Packaged, b) Final
<no0tic> night all
<nalioth> night
<mneptok> buan sera, no0tic 
<mneptok> *buna
<no0tic> mneptok, *buona notte :)
<no0tic> mneptok, "sera" is before midnight I suppose
<no0tic> bye
<kahrytan> I would like to thank you all for helping me hate GPL supporters.
<Hobbsee> ooookay?
<nalioth> kahrytan: you're welcome? (what did we do?)
<kahrytan> ubuntu ops are basis against those who dont share their anti-capitalism pro-gpl|oss beliefs.
<kahrytan> and always stand up for liars like mneptok
<Hobbsee> ooookay?
<kahrytan> Stop that
<kahrytan> thats disrespectful. 
<kahrytan> I want mneptok removed.
<kahrytan> He is a liar.
<kahrytan> Remove him now
<nalioth> can you start at the beginning of this tale, kahrytan ?
<kahrytan> Ask him when im not around. His lies piss me off
<Hobbsee> and so far, your claims have not been backed up by evidence.
<kahrytan> Basis  And always stand up for your own. goodbye.
<kahrytan> dumbasses
<Hobbsee> idiot.
<Hobbsee> please, someone do the same thing about kahrytan, and we can ban him from all #ubuntu* channels for the same reason?
<jdong> Hobbsee: WELL, that's disrespectful. you should be removed from this channel. Removeth her now!
<Hobbsee> heh
 * jdong hides in a cave
<jdong> err... Kave.
<mneptok> *someone* needs a juice box and a nap.
<jdong> mneptok: but but but, I'm not tired
<jdong> mneptok: and mommy says juice boxes have high fructose corn syrup and sodium benzoate which is bad for my pancreas.
<elkbuntu_> aww... i missed the kahrytan showdown
 * elkbirthday waits patiently for the logs to update
 * LjL doesn't bother and goes to sleep
<jdong> elkbirthday: http://jdong.mit.edu/~jdong/log4elkbuntu.txt
<jdong> near bottom.
<elkbirthday> ha. i hope we have namespace-wide bans :Ã
<ubotu> In #ubuntu, MorelOrel said: !pastebin? what is this?
<nalioth> ubotu tell MorelOrel about pastebin
<ubotu> astro76 called the ops in #ubuntu
<ubotu> astro76 called the ops in #ubuntu
<elkbirthday> <trypglyph> elkbirthday, another year hallmarked by the sacrificing of virgin blood and tormenting innocent users? <-- who else deems this trolling?
<mneptok> elkbirthday: don't give him nte satisfaction
<mneptok> *the
<elkbirthday> mneptok, which is why i havent responded
<crdlb> !-language
<ubotu> language aliases: langauge, wtf, ffs, foad, gtfo, nsfw - added by Seveas on 2006-07-02 10:45:17
<crdlb> !-ohmy
<ubotu> ohmy has no aliases - added by Spec on 2006-07-28 00:11:42
<crdlb> might want to fix that :)
<Hobbsee> !language
<ubotu> Please watch your language and topic, and keep this channel family friendly.
<Hobbsee> !ohmy
<ubotu> Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family friendly.
<Hobbsee> !ohmy is <alias> language
<ubotu> But ohmy already means something else!
<Hobbsee> !forget ohmy
<ubotu> I'll forget that, Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> !ohmy is <alias> language
<Hobbsee> !ohmy is <alias> language
<Hobbsee> ubotu: 
<Hobbsee> !ping
<ubotu> pong
<Hobbsee> oh damn
<Hobbsee> !ohmy is <alias> language
<Jucato> !ping
<ubotu> pong
<nalioth> KLANG
<crdlb> Hobbsee: that's a bug in ubotu, you need to set it to something without an alias, then use !no ohmy is <alias> ...
<crdlb> no idea why I remember that
<nalioth> Hobbsee: that's a bug in crdlb, he has no idea why he remembers things
<nalioth> :D
<Hobbsee> !ohmy is bar
<ubotu> But ohmy already means something else!
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> !no ohmy is bar
<ubotu> I know nothing about ohmy yet, Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> that bug.
<crdlb> gah ouch
<ubotu> astro76 called the ops in #ubuntu
<ubotu> Kagar called the ops in #ubuntu-offtopic
<Madpilot> gah, it'd be nice if you could clear bans without spamming the heck out of the channel...
<Daviey> okay.. who borked !ohmy :/
<Daviey> !ohmy
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about ohmy - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<Seeker`> Daviey: I blame Gary
<Daviey> Gary is the root of most probs IMO
<Hobbsee> me
<PriceChild> http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/10/31/ubuntu-eats-lappy-hard-drive - oh for crying out loud
<PriceChild> "however it seems that Ubuntu made the grave mistake of doing what the hard drive manufacturers told them."
<Pici> I saw that a bit earlier.
<Pici> Of course, no one will actuall read the article.
<Pici> s/actuall/actually/
<Daviey> Hobbsee: why the removal of !ohmy?
<Hobbsee> Daviey: because i made the mistake of removing !ohmy
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: ah yes.  *sigh*
<Hobbsee> not like hardware manufacturers know their hardware, or antying.
<Daviey> Hobbsee: ahh.. assumed it was planned, np
<Hobbsee> and it's a bug.
<Daviey> Also, from what it seems - ubuntu doesn't put laptops into "laptop mode" as default.. it's a manual conf setting
<PriceChild> Daviey, indeed
<PriceChild> mjg59 did an explanation of it all a while ago
<Daviey> Luckily Ubuntu Demon helped spread the FUD tho.. good job!
<Daviey> PriceChild: yeah, i read that... it was good readidng
<Daviey> s/reading
<PriceChild> Daviey, indeed
<jdong> Daviey: ubuntu_demon corrected himself after the second one
<jdong> to be honest, the laptop_mode=on scenario was a bad choice of defaults for Ubuntu
<jdong> Ubuntu is the *only* distro that I know that sets hdparm -B1 when laptop_mode is enabled
<Daviey> but it isn't AIUI
<jdong> (this is not default behavior of laptop_mode -- laptop_mode.conf defaults to NOT adjusting power management for the HDD)
<jdong> it also doesn't help that powertop's initial suggestion list includes turning on laptop_mode
<Daviey> this is true
<jdong> it's a case of not turned on by default, but no warning that turning it on would have SUCH nasty effects
<jdong> and IMO that's *still* a Ubuntu bug.
<jdong> we should not have landmine options in config files, especially not without clear warning....
<jdong> should we add in a DESKTOP_MODE=false and when set to true it reformats all the drives??
<jdong> I also did not understand Matthew's argument for why hdparm -B 1 is set rather than a more sensible value, like -B 100 or more
<jdong> he seems to have implied that not all drives decide to go into parked mode immediately when B=1, but on all of my hard drives that support -B, this is the case.
<jdong> *sigh* does Kevin really need to be doing all of his intro to CS homework on the Planet?
<jdong> not that I don't enjoy reading decently challenging CS problems
<jdong> or that I have anything against .NET (I'm a fanboy)
<Amaranth> #ubuntu+1 got reopened?
<Pici> Amaranth: yes.
<Hobbsee> well, hardy is open, and seems working
<ikonia> Hobbsee what is hardy's base kenrel ?
<ikonia> kernel even 
<Hobbsee> same as gutsy atm
<no0tic> hi all
<Pici> howdy
<Pici> Heh, Ubuntu Demon apoligized for his post bumping
<jdong> Pici: I think he genuinely had no idea it was happening
<Pici> jdong: Thats what it sounded like.  
<jdong> Pici: which I agree with -- it's an unintuitive problem with the planet system
<Pici> Although if I had a planet feed, I'd probably be reading it too and would have seen all the posts I was making...
<jdong> Pici: well it looks like he simply doesn't read planet on a regular basis
<jdong> Pici: which I feel the same way about. IMO the quality of the posts on the planet have degraded drastically
<jdong> and most of the times it's a waste of my time reading about someone's CS homework, or how Chister downgraded libc6 so that his macbook would work "with no bad consequences", the newest nokia device....
<jdong> I RSS-aggregate the blogs on planet that seem to have decent content and I read them independently.
<Pici> Or how so and so went on vacation to whatisplace and here are the vacation photos.
<jdong> I don't mind some personal stuff here and there
<jdong> I enjoy learning about the lives of people outside of Ubuntu
<Pici> Sometimes its a bit much though.
<jdong> agreed
<Pici> !hdbug
<ubotu> Ubuntu does *not* modify hard drive parameters by default.  Please see http://mjg59.livejournal.com/77672.html for a technical analysis and also http://tinyurl.com/2vyrft for more information
<Pici> Comments? Changes?
<Pici> switched it around a bit: 
<Pici> !hdbug
<ubotu> Ubuntu does *not* modify hard-drive lifespans by default. A technical analysis from a Debian/Ubuntu developer can be found at http://mjg59.livejournal.com/77672.html (See https://launchpad.net/bug59695.html and http://tinyurl.com/2vyrft for more information)
<Hobbsee> Pici: he's also the guy who deals with acpi*
<Pici> Hobbsee: mjg59? 
<Hobbsee> yes
<Hobbsee> and suspend and resume
<Pici> hmm
<jdong> Pici: Ubuntu Technical Board member and ACPI expert.
<jdong> :)
<LjL> Hobbsee: oh, really, can i kill him then?
<Hobbsee> LjL: no.
<Hobbsee> LjL: we wnat S&R actually working for *most* machines.
<jdong> LjL: didn't you listen to his many "it's not my fault" speeches? :)
<jdong> (kidding :D)
<LjL> jdong: well i suppose i can kill him "by mistake". or use a proprietary knife that i cannot really control.
<Pici> !hdbug =~ s/Ubuntu developer/Ubuntu Technical Board member and ACPI expert/
<ubotu> I'll remember that Pici
<Pici> !hdbug =~ s/A techincal/An/
<ubotu> Nothing changed there
 * Pici works on his regex-fu
<LjL> modifying hd lifespam...?
<LjL> Pici, why don't you just copy and paste :P
<Pici> LjL: Because thats boring.
<jdong> LjL: I want to modify my lifespam.
<jdong> even high definition spam
<jdong> that's the worst
<LjL> jdong: sudo jdparm /dev/jdong -B 255
<jdong> LjL: will that help me burn extra calories?
<LjL> jdong: yes and you'll never have to sleep
<jdong> LjL: actually -S will still default to 5 minute spindown ;-)
 * LjL drops jdong repeatedly with the platters spinning
<jdong> LjL: fortunately I run OS X which, unlike Ubuntu, supports automatic parking on freefall without cutting disk lifespan by 10-fold :)
<jdong> ha aren't I a troll today :)
<LjL> jdong: automatic parking on freefall - suppose that requires an accelerometer. i thought that sort of thing was handled by the drive controller itself?
<jdong> LjL: nah, Apple portables have an accelerometer built in
<jdong> LjL: and a kernelland driver that monitors it in realtime
<jdong> LjL: IBM has similar, and there's a userspace daemon (hdapsd) that monitors similar information on Linux
<LjL> jdong: well if the interface to the accelerometer were standardized...
<jdong> LjL: unfortunately, currently it's not possible in Linux to park the disk head
<jdong> LjL: because there's no API call to freeze all disk activity
<jdong> LjL: the patch was written in 2006 for it but has yet to be merged
<jdong> LjL: once that's done, using the Linux macbook accelerometer driver to write a parking program is trivial
<LjL> jdong: what about immediate poweroff on accelometer readings over threshold?
<jdong> LjL: and the same patch for freeze_queue has a standard sysfs interface for IBM and Apple accelerometers
<jdong> LjL: about half the acceleration of freefall or so
<jdong> LjL: in my experience, not possible to trip without , say, running down stairs with the laptop in hand
<LjL> jdong, i mean, what about just powering off the whole machine, since we can't just park the drive
<jdong> I haven't exactly tried a drop test...
<jdong> LjL: disks really don't spin down fast enough for that, not to mention a hard poweroff can cause much more damage than a drop
<jdong> LjL: most good hard drives are rated to some 300-500G's of operating shock
<LjL> jdong: meh, a hard poweroff will mess with the filesystem a little at worst... and lose your documents, but that happens routinely whenever X freezes :P still, powering off a drive doesn't park its head?
<jdong> LjL: usually not immediately
<jdong> LjL: they usually use rotational inertia counteracting a spring to park.....
<jdong> which means you probably need for the drive to spin down significantly before it returns to a near parked position
<jdong> while issuing a park command is nearly instant
<LjL> jdong: will the next generation of Macs come with mini-jets to make the laptop float above ground when a fall is detected?
 * jrib runs to the patent office
<LjL> jrib: we have logs, and i'll sue you :P
<Pici> LjL: I think I saw a commercial like that... /me looks
<Pici> LjL: http://www.lenovo.co.uk/tapes/kent.html
<jrib> wait, that's fake right?
<jdong> LjL: lol, that would be hilarious
<jdong> LjL: or deployable mini-springs ;-)
<Pici> jdong: see my link
 * jrib sees the strings
<jdong> Pici: eeeeeewwww, I don't swing that way
<Pici> o.O
<jdong> Pici: say "See my hypertext anchor" next time
<jdong> actually.... that sounds pretty bad too
<jdong> never mind :)
<LjL> jdong: or just an airbag
 * Pici remembers that IBM commercial about dropping someones laptop
<jdong> Pici: how about a commercial for dropping an entire line of laptops and sending them to some chinese company?
<jdong> oh wait that is their entire commercial collection
<Pici> Hehe
<LjL> jdong: perhaps "see my address" would be a more cautious invite
<Pici> I'm just going to avoid talking when jdong is around.
<LjL> Pici: what are you going to do when mneptok is around then?
<jdong> Pici: or maybe re-read every other word you type to make sure it can't be misconstrued as an innuendo? :)
<LjL> mc44 will have advice about that too
<Jucato> hm.. bot's gone again...
<Jucato> Ubotwo: join #kubuntu
<Jucato> bah
<LjL> Jucato: you probably need to identify, identify jucato password
<jpatrick_> Jucato: it's already there
<LjL> yeah because i joined it
<Jucato> yeah, LjL most probably did it
<Jucato> :D
<Jucato> can't find me in its user database :)
<Jucato> nvm though. LjL's there to save the day :)
<LjL> Jucato: i thought you were registered but it seems you aren't... register jucato password
<Jucato> I registered.. probably removed me. it's ok :)
<Andeh> Hi
<Andeh> When I'm in #ubuntu-offtopic and try to talk, it says Cannot send to channel.
<Andeh> Um...?
<LjL> Andeh: that's because you are muted
<Andeh> Oh
<Andeh> Until what year?
<LjL> Andeh: i don't know, i didn't do the muting. let me check what it was for
<Pici> LjL: ubotu is down... looks like the tracker is too :(
<Andeh> Thank you.
<Andeh> :/
<LjL> Pici: ubotu is actually connected, though in no channel
<Andeh> heh
<Pici> LjL: hm....
<Seveas> hoster has network problems
<Seveas> colo crap
<Andeh> :p
<LjL> well Andeh do you have any clue why you were muted? bans and mutes generally last differently long depending on why they happened
<Andeh>   :/
<Andeh> Well it seems my behaviour angers the ops often
<Andeh> so it could have been for anything
<Andeh> but it wasnt that suddenly I got a cannot send to channel message while still talking, I connected a week later and then it told me
<Andeh> :/
<Andeh> ...
<Andeh> Cool, I just realised why the audio file I was just making hurt my ears, it had a strong ultrasound peak
<Andeh> i'll see if I can remove it
<Seveas> hoster is back
<Seveas> ubotu will be back soon
<Pici> Thanks for the update :_
<Andeh> so, why am I muted again?
<Andeh> ...
<nalioth> Andeh: please be patient or be elsewhere
<Andeh> Oh. Well the server is back ent it?
<Seveas> that doesn't mean the ops are :)
<Seveas> btw, i found this: 2007-09-16T19:55:30 <Andeh> Omg pedos
<Seveas> not really something I'd unban/unmute
<Seveas> eweka is down again, ubotu isn't functional
<tonyyarusso> yay...
 * tonyyarusso blames ghosts and goblins
<Seveas> they seem to have screwed up routing this time, hmm
<Seveas> !test
<Seveas> ah, ping says it's back
<ubotu> Failed.
<Pici> Andeh: It looks like ompaul was the one who set your current mute.  He'd be the person to talk to about removing it.
<Seveas> ok, eweka definitely fucked up their routing
<nalioth> Seveas: would you like an account on my box here?
<Seveas> not much I can do now
<Pici> I thought your box was sequestered behind some nasty NATting
<nalioth> Seveas: well, i don't know if you mirror your cvs/svn/bzr stuff on a local box (i do)
<nalioth> Pici: are you speaking to me? my box is open to the world
<Seveas> not the db
<nalioth> tonyyarusso has an account on it for powerpc dev'ng
<Seveas> Pici, ljl's box is 
<Pici> Seveas: They're practially the same person :p
<nalioth> Seveas: i have the latest factoid db (at least the latest until the server went whacky)
<tonyyarusso> nalioth: I think I may have forgotten the pw for it though...  /me cowers
<nalioth> tonyyarusso: that's easily corrected
<tonyyarusso> would it be possible to re-get login info?
<tonyyarusso> :P
<tonyyarusso> I just had an IP address before too - haven't you learned the ways of no-ip or something yet?
<Seveas> nalioth, do you think profox` qualifies for a channel join limit exception? he's ubuntu member and active dutch loco member
<nalioth> Seveas: he's been gifted
<Seveas> gracias
<nalioth> de nada
<jussi01> hmmm, is there a problem with ubotu? (seems very slow) should I take the load off and unmute ubotwo?
<Pici> jussi01: Just some server issues. Hopefully it'll be back to normal soon.
<Pici> Seems pretty responsive in #ubuntu now
<jussi01> Pici: k, thanks
<PriceChild> And then there were 4...
<PriceChild> *runs off for lunch*
<Seeker`> PriceChild: lunch?!
<PriceChild> meh tea
<PriceChild> i didn't eat lunch
<Pici> PriceChild: Do you wear a monocle and a top hat?
<PriceChild> tea == evening meal in pricey speak
<TheSheep> liquid diet O.o
<Seeker`> Pici: Where do you live?
<Pici> Seeker`: New Jersey, USA
<nalioth> NEW JERSEY!
<Pici> yes <.<
 * Seeker` calls dinner "tea" sometimes
<Pici> I've never heard it called tea.
<Seeker`> its a British thing
<Seeker`> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_%28meal%29#Main_evening_meal
 * Pici looks
<no0tic> hi all
<Pici> hi
<TheSheep> how may...
<Pici> how may?
<TheSheep> nevermind
<no0tic> :)
<Andeh> ompaul: Hi.
<PriceChild> its an Andeh.... can we help?
<Andeh> Yeah.
<Andeh> Why am I muted?
<PriceChild> how? :)
<PriceChild> where?
<ompaul> I think I know why
<Andeh> in #ubuntu-offtopic
<Andeh> yeah
<ompaul> -offoptic 
<nalioth> Andeh: we got it.  please wait for the op that banned you
<ompaul> he just arrived
<Andeh> O_o
<ompaul> I think
<Seveas> he did
<ompaul> ahh Seveas so I did did I
<Pici> ompaul: yes, I told him you did it.
<Andeh> ...
<Andeh> Ahem
<ompaul> Andeh, the concept of not being annoying to your fellow channel residents is kind of important
<ompaul> persist semi trolling
<ompaul> so here is the deal
<ompaul> you learn how we communicate 
<ompaul> if you want to participate work within those bounds and don't keep making noise and disrupting it all
<ompaul> Andeh, willing to do that?
<ompaul> Andeh, and to let you know, most people are not your age in there, in fact some of us are on the wrong side of forty let alone the wrong side of thirty
<Seveas> ompaul, but you're still on the good side of the 70 :)
<ompaul> Seveas, thanks for finding the silver lining in that :)
<ompaul> haha
<Seveas> look for the silver lining...
<ompaul> Andeh, I'll take your shocked and stunned silence to be a no. You can inform me when you think you might be able to participate in that social grouping, the way they all do.
<Seveas> s/they/we/
<PriceChild> ohmy has gone?
<ompaul> PriceChild, na it is not an ohmy version of reality
<ompaul> !ohmy
<ubotu> In #ubuntu-bots, Seveas said: !unforget ohmy
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about ohmy - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<crdlb> PriceChild: my fault sorry :(
<PriceChild> ahh tis back now
<PriceChild> crdlb, hmm?
<crdlb> I pointed out that !ohmy wasn't aliased to !language
<Pici> tsk tsk
<Andeh> ompaul: Hi
<PriceChild> !-ohmy
<Andeh> My mum was on the PC
<ubotu> ohmy has no aliases - added by Spec on 2006-07-28 00:11:42
<crdlb> but when they tried to fix it, ubotu broke :)
<Pici> -language
<Pici> !-language
<ubotu> language aliases: langauge, wtf, ffs, foad, gtfo, nsfw - added by Seveas on 2006-07-02 10:45:17
<PriceChild> riiight..... so if i aliased it now.... it would break?
<ompaul> Andeh, well scroll back and read what I have been saying since you said Ahem
<Andeh> I did just that :D
<Seveas> !no ohmy is <alias> language
<Andeh> I think I might be able to participate in that social grouping, the way they all do.
<ubotu> I'll remember that Seveas
<Seveas> ohmy
<Seveas> !-ohmy
<ubotu> ohmy is <alias> language - added by Spec on 2006-07-28 00:11:42
<Andeh> hehe
<Seveas> !ohmy
<ubotu> Please watch your language and topic, and keep this channel family friendly.
<Pici> my oh my
<Seveas> âª somewhere over the rainbow
<ompaul> Andeh, okay, please be aware if I or someone else says calm down, please do so, keep quite for a while.
<PriceChild> and all was well in the world...
<ompaul> PriceChild, NOOOOOOOOOOOOO
<Seveas> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-irc/2007-October/000344.html
<ompaul> it is the eve of all hallows the fires are buring
<ompaul> burning even
<Andeh> ompaul: I think the exact wording was "fucking ignorant moron" rather than calm down, but okay.
<jussi01> Seveas: thanks :)
<ompaul> Andeh, you just bought yourself another ban 
<ompaul> I had undone it
<Andeh> O_O
<Pici> Seveas: :_(
<Andeh> I was being serious
<ompaul> we don't permit that kind of conversation
<Andeh> I know
<Andeh> They banned him after he flamed me
<ompaul> so using "
<ompaul> does not work
<Andeh> ...
<Andeh> Note to self: Quoting others gets you banned
<ompaul> Andeh, can do
<ompaul> I'll remove it, don't point fingers 
<Andeh> it has on several occasions, not just here
<Seveas> Andeh, it can if you just pretend quote
<Andeh> ?
<Seveas> there is no mention of a F A M on https://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/bans.cgi?query=implozun&kicks=on&oldbans=on&bans=on&oldmutes=on&mutes=on
<ompaul> when it has happened leave it others can deal with it
<Andeh> You mean like 'I think the exact wording was "[f word(adjective)][person who does not pay attention(noun)][stupid person(noun)]"'
<ompaul> Andeh, we live in a world where we communicate some times in places you can see, some times you can't and other times we meet face to face
<Andeh> Hooray for technology then.
<Andeh> Hmm
<Andeh> I am working on a song. If I send you a bad quality .ogg of it to promote the free format and ubuntu's use of it, will it... never mind
<ompaul> stuff such as ---  2007-10-12T22:58:41 <Andeh> ompaul: Hmm. I have 4 GB ram. Should I just sell that last gigabyte?   --- is very annoying not clever or smart
<Andeh> ...
<Andeh> you picked out the only serious thing I ever said on IRC?
<Seveas> imagine how annoying the non-serious things are :)
<ompaul> well then it just goes to show how you come across
<Andeh> I wasn't kidding about that, the last gig is wasted
<Andeh> brb
<ompaul> cos that does not read serious
<ompaul> it reads like troll
<PriceChild> Seveas, ubotu doesn't report here on alias's of !ops? like !op
<Seveas> it should
<Seveas> it doesn't
<mc44> Seveas: you're leaving us for the *dutch*!
 * mc44 cries
 * ompaul looks at mc44 
<ompaul> food on the way got to go
<Seveas> ompaul, see the link I just posted :)
<Andeh> Oh, my use of capital letters...
<Andeh> ...and proper grammar... do they make people think I am a troll pretending not to be a troll?
<Andeh> Because I don't see how else that line looks like a troll
<Andeh> And if I remember it was in context, I was asking about linux handling my 4x1GB ram to the full extent
<Andeh> so not just 2.8 GB like it does at the moment
<Andeh> They later told me the only things that dont work with ubuntu x64 out of the box are some commercial plugins like flash and java
<Andeh> mm
<Andeh> err...
<nalioth> Andeh: can we help you?
<Andeh> yeah
<Andeh> ompaul: I kindly request you to un-mute me now.
<jussi01> nalioth: ompaul has run off for food. 
<nalioth> Andeh: please be patient or be elsewhere
<Andeh> nalioth: ...
<Andeh> It's sort of a conversation that has been going on. I am not patiently waiting for ompaul to decide to unban me for no reason, I am trying to convince him I will try not to make my 100% serious posts less likely to look like trolls.
<PriceChild> Something is wrong...
<Seveas> ...in the kingdom of...
<Pici> ...our discontent...
<Seveas>  _____
<Seveas> < moo >
<Seveas>  -----
<Seveas>         \   ^__^
<Seveas>          \  (oo)\_______
<Seveas>             (__)\       )\/\
<Seveas>                 ||----w |
<Seveas>                 ||     ||
 * mc44 goes to find the shakespeare play with "moo" in it
<gnomefreak> hes not banned in here
<Pici> Just muted.
<gnomefreak> oh well later guys ;)
<Pici> cya
<mc44> bah, there's lots of "moon" but no "moo" :(
<Seveas> gweep, how can we help you?
<gweep> hi
<gweep> the ubuntu-austria team need a entry into this page:
<gweep> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat
<Andeh> Why thank you.
<gweep> wie have an irc channel #ubuntu-at
<Seveas> gweep, it's a wiki, you can edit it :)
<Andeh> Heh.
<gweep> oh ... ok :)
<PriceChild> Seveas, that's help. we can't edit that can we?
<Seveas> we can
<Seveas> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat?action=edit
<Andeh> meh
<Andeh> good night
<PriceChild> Seveas, ahhh cool
<ubotu> Seveas called the ops in #ubuntu-bots
<Seveas> Mez, wuss :p
<ubotu> Seveas called the ops in #ubuntu-bots
<PriceChild> Seveas, woo :)
<PriceChild> oh wait...
<PriceChild> that was ops not op
<ubotu> Seveas called the ops in #ubuntu-bots
<PriceChild> sorted :D
<ubotu> Seveas called the ops in #ubuntu-bots (hey PriceChild: )
<PriceChild> haha that's even cooler :)
<Seveas> 2 things fixed 
<PriceChild> *highfives Seveas*
<ubotu> Seveas called the ops in #ubuntu-bots ()
<ubotu> Seveas called the ops in #ubuntu-bots (afasfdasdf)
 * nalioth removes the bots safeguards in #ubuntu-bots
<Seveas> ok, enough annoyance
<Daviey> !botabuse
<ubotu> Please investigate with me only in /msg or in #ubuntu-bots (type also /msg ubotu Bot). Also avoid adding joke/useless factoids. Abusing the channel bots will only result in angry ops...
<Daviey> :)
<mc44> Seveas: wait, you had 400 people at your release party ^^
<mc44> 400, like, ubuntu people
 * nalioth introduces Cyberdyne T101 subroutines into the bots in #ubuntu-bots
<Daviey> mc44: yeah.. but we had sabdfl >;)
<gweep> Seveas ... i have a another question. how we can enter the austrian ubuntu forum on this page?
<gweep> http://www.ubuntu.com/support/community/webforums
<mc44> Daviey: 8 people round a snooker table isn't quite the same :P
<gweep> there no edit on the page
<Daviey> mc44: incidently we didn't even play snooker..
<Seveas> gweep, contact webmaster@canonical.com
<gweep> thank you for help ... nice support :)
<gweep> and for this edit: http://www.ubuntu.com/support/local - the same? contact to webmaster@canonical.com?
<gweep> ok ... we have it ! THX Seveas!!!
<tonyyarusso> mc44: My team had 28 - it was cool.
<tonyyarusso> (We're brand new)
<nalioth> is there a file size limit per mailbox on thunderbird?
<nalioth> my tbird has just stopped functioning
<tonyyarusso> I doubt it, or I would have it it.
<JanC> nalioth: yes
<nalioth> JanC: care to share?
<JanC> well, I know that at least in the past there was a limit of about 2 GiB
<ompaul> file size issues more so hmmmm
<nalioth> ah
 * nalioth is nowhere near that size for his .mbox files
<nalioth> i suspect somone sent a GPG key in a digest that has caused tbird to choke
<nalioth> i logged into gmail and moved the digests and don't seem to be having the problem any more
<ompaul> one thing which can break tb is borken messages 
<mneptok> They give us hope and teach us well. With magic moons that cast a spell, and hypnotise, and draw us in. I believe I'm believing.
<ompaul> mneptok,  and so it was that the things that happened that night but few speak of them as they were mostly very boring.
<ompaul> :)
<nalioth> something very weird is going on.  evolution will not start at all.
<mneptok> DOOMED TO BE AN AMOEBA!
<LjL> nalioth: ask the guy in #kubuntu whose filesystem suddenly turned read only... might do some knowledge exchanging :)
 * Pici divides
<nalioth> LjL: i'm not read-only.  but it _is_ funny that two email clients would start fitzing out simultaneously
<LjL> full HD then? :)
<nalioth> got 10gb to go
<nalioth> as usual, my problems are my own
<nalioth> wow.  i just installed kmail (never used it before at all) and it won't start.
<nalioth> i am suspecting spamassasin
<LjL> nalioth: though kmail doesn't use spamassassin by default unless you run the spam wizard i think...
<ubotu> erUSUL called the ops in #ubuntu (federico advising to run a DoS attack)
<tonyyarusso> wow, I managed to join just in time to be greeted by "DOOMED TO BE AN AMOEBA!" ?
 * mneptok beams brightly
 * nalioth notes that mneptoks UV output has killed himself-the-amoeba
<Seveas> DOOMED TO BE A MNEPTOK
 * tonyyarusso is getting grief from Thunderbird
<Seeker`> tonyyarusso: is it bullying you?
<tonyyarusso> Seeker`: It's marking my messages as read before I read them.
<nalioth> tonyyarusso: seems to be going around . . . 
<tonyyarusso> nalioth: :(
 * tonyyarusso prods mozilla to put as much freakin' effort into all their products
<JanC> tonyyarusso: they probably ported that feature from MS Outlook?  :P
<tonyyarusso> JanC: Oooh, does it come with worms now too?
<JanC> well, it always marks at least one unread mail as read every time you open it  :)
 * tonyyarusso bops tritium over the head for making him try things, and thus, break things
<gnomefreak> tonyyarusso: please dont im getting tired of fixing tbird atm
<tonyyarusso> gnomefreak: Sowwies...
<gnomefreak> i would like to get seamonkey and sunbird done first ;)
<gnomefreak> and yes we are renaming iceape to seamonkey for version 2.0
<gnomefreak> and i love it ;)
 * TheSheep wonders what happened to iceweasel
<gnomefreak> TheSheep: it stayed in debian
<gnomefreak> iceweasel==firefox
<TheSheep> gnomefreak: didn't they fork?
<gnomefreak> no just the branding 
<gnomefreak> name and icons, debian didnt agree to the terms
<gnomefreak> only reason why i named seamonkey as iceape is i was merging from debian but since we no longer do that its being named and branded seamonkey
 * mneptok stifles a *waaaay* too mature comment
<gnomefreak> bot borked?
<Pici> !test
<ubotu> Failed.
<Seeker`> gnomefreak: when isn't it?
<gnomefreak> debian 448117
<gnomefreak> debian bug 448117
<gnomefreak> neither work i get pmed
<gnomefreak> 18:51 <ubotu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Debian: timed out
<Pici> yarr
<Pici> Were  you looking for a debian bug?
<gnomefreak> either bot is out of sync or debian bug tracker is borked
<gnomefreak> Pici: yes
<nalioth> walter_eco: would the -ak be Alaska or something else?
<walter_eco> no, its for alaska i think
<walter_eco> its supposed to be for alaska i think
<nalioth> walter_eco: please use #ubuntu-us-ak with our compliments
<walter_eco> im pretty sure the ubuntu alaska loco team channel is supposed to be #ubuntu-ak
<walter_eco> that could be why i was having a problem
<rob> it could be forwarded I guess
<nalioth> rob: we're all switching over to the new style of naming   :P
<gnomefreak> thought ak was arkansaw
<gnomefreak> (sp)
<mneptok> AK = Alaska
<mneptok> AR = Arkansas
<gnomefreak> ah
<nalioth> gnomefreak: AL = Alabama
<gnomefreak> ;)
<gnomefreak> nc = north colorado? j/k
<rob> new style?
<rob> how ugly :)
<nalioth> rob: #ubuntu-texas is now #ubuntu-us-tx
<nalioth> and so forth
<rob> nalioth, eww
<nalioth> not my idea, but it seems logical
<nalioth> keeps the Tunisians from warring with the Tennesseans
<elkbuntu> and georgia vs georgia
<rob> warring is what Americans do best, isn't it? :P
<mc44> I'd back georgia in that fight
<nalioth> rob: not lately
<elkbuntu> mc44, heh
<rob> I guess that makes sense for the US at least, but I couldn't imagine it would apply so well to every loco channel
<elkbuntu> rob, well the US is the only country with a zillion locos instead of one or two
<rob> yeah
<rob> but, why not use the full names instead?
<rob> #ubuntu-alaska for example
<nalioth> not our decision, rob   (looks upward)
<nalioth> came from the CC
<elkbuntu> rob, they often have both, but newbies keep trying to join the #ubuntu-<state abbreviation>
<rob> I'm guessing I missed the above discussion as I only just reconnected after the thunderstorm here last night, but the decision seems a little misguided to me. How come the CC are deciding that anyway, shouldn't the IRC council just have taken care of a decision like that?
<elkbuntu> because the irc council is only new, the people took it to the wrong place, and the cc obviously were not going to palm it
<rob> elkbuntu, of cause they do, because that makes sense. I bet the next choice would be #ubuntu-fullname, -us-ak for example is ugly and not that logical
<rob> maybe they should have handballed it
<rob> no matter, it doesn't really affect me so I'm not too worried, but it sure is ugly ;)
<ubotu> astro76 called the ops in #ubuntu (daniele_)
<ubotu> astro76 called the ops in #ubuntu (Mandrivaboy2008 too)
 * no0tic is hoping his wireless will work
<elkbuntu> nalioth, when did the cc make this vote anyway? 
<nalioth> elkbuntu: nfc.  the directive came via the dutchman
<elkbuntu> dutchman needs to confirm then
<nalioth> he's confirmed many times by telling wondering folks to use the channel naming system 
<nalioth> and asking me to change some channel names
<jrib> nalioth: the wiki still recommends ubuntu-fullstatename
<nalioth> then i guess i'll have to get it changed, eh?
<jrib> agh, why?
<nalioth> to make sure we're all on the same sheet of music, of course
<jrib> but why one over the other?  When ubuntu-massachusetts was set up, it was clear from the wiki and the ubuntu-us channel that it should be fullname
<nalioth> jrib: i have no idea.
#ubuntu-ops 2007-11-01
<ubotu> DaSkreech called the ops in #kubuntu ()
<nalioth> so he did.
<mneptok> nalioth: why +i for #kubuntu?
<nalioth> long story
<nalioth> all leading up to neural failure
<Pici> whose?
<nalioth> mine.
<Pici> See, you could have blamed it one someone else and I would have believed you.
<ubotu> In ubotu, Taras said: what is a bot ?
<Pici> sigh.
<Pici> !bot > taras
<Pici> I doubt that will help though.
<ubotu> In ubotu, Taras said: what is your name ?
<jrib> heh
<LjL> !b > taras    (taras, see the private message from Ubotu)
<ubotu> dasnipa called the ops in ubotu ()
<LjL> hello, a bug
<ubotu> LjL called the ops in #ubuntu-bots (just a test)
<Seeker`> LjL: try it with just !ops
<LjL> Seeker`: it'll do just the same, the point is that it shouldn't react to queries made in -bots or in a PM. it's due to a change the seveas did earlier today.
<Seeker`> LjL: will it still have the ()?
<LjL> Seeker`: suppose so. if you're saying that's another bug in its own right... probably yes, though not really an important one
<ubotu> LjL called the ops in #ubuntu-bots ()
<Seeker`> it would be "nicer" without the () with no content
<Seeker`> and I agree that it isn't really important
<LjL> bug #159184
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 159184 in ubuntu-bots "!ops pings #ubuntu-ops even when called in PM or #ubuntu-bots" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/159184
<nalioth> has anyone heard of any problems with gpgme recently? NONE of the mail clients i've installed/compiled will work
<nalioth> they all hang or lock up on gpg duties
<LjL> nalioth, my kmail starts fine, and it sends gpg-signed mail fine too
<nalioth> LjL: does it use gpgme ?
<LjL> nalioth: i have no idea, but you said that kmail too hung for you
<LjL> nalioth: anyway it depends on libgpgme11
 * jdong lokk
<jdong> err
 * jdong looks at why he's joined to 17 channels now
<jdong> silly everyone calling ops :)
<mneptok> i can't be saved from my ways. until she comes.
<tonyyarusso> jdong: only 17?
<jdong> tonyyarusso: well before I left for office hours 3 hours ago, I was joined to 12 :)
<tonyyarusso> jdong: autojoin on ops?
<jdong> tonyyarusso: yep
<mneptok> aka the "Summon jdong Against His Will" command
<LjL> LjL called the ops in #automatix
<jdong> LjL: sorry, ubuntu/bot/* hostmask, #*buntu* only
<LjL> jdong: i see
<jdong> so something like....
<LjL> ... what's a #*ubuntu* channel you don't want to be in? :)
<jdong> !test | LjL called ops in #kubuntu
<ubotu> LjL called ops in #kubuntu: Failed.
<jdong> !test | LjL called the ops in #kubuntu
<LjL> jdong: or i just use ubotwo ;)
<ubotu> LjL called the ops in #kubuntu: Failed.
<jdong> now I'm joined :)
<tonyyarusso> hehe
 * tonyyarusso makes note to wait for a rainy day and join jdong to all of the channels
<jdong> lol
<jdong> well since it only listens in this channel I trust you guys not to join me to #goatsebuntu ;-)
<mneptok> #ubuntu-cmu
<LjL> !test | LjL called the ops in #ubuntu-ljl
<ubotu> LjL called the ops in #ubuntu-ljl: Failed.
<LjL> jdong: nah
<LjL> just ##windows
<jdong> haha
<jdong> LjL: lol with a creative use of banforwards ;-)
<tonyyarusso> LjL: You realize we could make #ubuntu-forward with a +f to send him anywhere?
<jdong> yep
<LjL> tonyyarusso: which is what i just did ;)
<tonyyarusso> ah, nice
<tonyyarusso> great minds think alike
<jdong> evil minds think alike :P
<tonyyarusso> that too
<mneptok> please be sure to renew your Assholes Guild membership. i wouldn't want to miss you at guild hall meetings!
 * nalioth owns the place.
<LjL> i'll bring the drinks
<jdong> mneptok: err.... what exactly happens at an Assholes Guild?
 * jdong is slightly worried ;-)
<LjL> jdong: you get banforwarded to places you probably don't want to be in
<mneptok> jdong: we play "Clench Until You Hear The Snap"
<jdong> lol
<tonyyarusso> eww
<no0tic> in the Ass-holes Guild you must be watching goatse all day long..
<no0tic> ok ban me
<mneptok> s/watching/living/
 * jdong can't get the picture of mako messing with goatse on an iPhone out of my mind
<tritium> tonyyarusso: what did you break?
<tonyyarusso> tritium: Hokay, so here's the deal:
<jdong> when we unhacked his iPhone, the FIRST thing that he did was go to goatse on safari, then zoom the picture using the stretching gesture on the touchscreen
<jdong> and that's about all he used his iPhone for too :)
<mneptok> jdong: you want a scary mental image? Mako, Seth Schoen, and myself sharing a BART ride.
<tritium> haha
<no0tic> jdong, terrible
<no0tic> jdong, disgusting
<jdong> no0tic: yeah, but it was funny too
<jdong> that it was the first thing he decided to do after jailbreaking the firmware
<tonyyarusso> tritium: I'm using GMail's new IMAP, and transferred all of my old POP e-mails into it.  I'm on a lot of Ubuntu mailing lists, and have been using filters of syntax "If To or CC contains blah@lists.ubuntu.com, move message to folder Ubuntu/Lists/Blah".
<tritium> tonyyarusso: yeah...
<tonyyarusso> tritium: That would result in unread mail that was presorted into folders before.  Now, at first glance after fetching mail, it looks right, ie. in my folder list I'll have Ubuntu/Lists/Blah (5).  But, as soon as I click the folder name, it un-bolds, and all of the messages are marked as read.
<tonyyarusso> tritium: Additionally, if I log on to the web interface partway through the process, they are all already marked as read, even for ones where I haven't clicked the folder name yet.
<tritium> tonyyarusso: that's strange
<tonyyarusso> tritium: It seems that since GMail uses tags (or whatever it was called?) instead of real folders, the filter's "move" directive in TB is assigning a tag, and that process is marking the message as interacted with, or read.
<tritium> eww
<Hobbsee> ah, Seveas did step down.
<tonyyarusso> I suppose I could probably do this better by setting up my filters on GMail's end, but this would have been easier.
<tonyyarusso> Hobbsee: you had an inkling he might I take it?
<Hobbsee> tonyyarusso: gmail doesnt support folder@email?
<tritium> Hobbsee: from irc council?
<Hobbsee> yes, of course.
<tonyyarusso> Hobbsee: I don't know?  I'm brand-new to this entire IMAP thing, so you'll need to talk slowly with me.
<tritium> sorry to hear about your troubles, tonyyarusso 
<LjL> well he said nov 1
<Hobbsee> tonyyarusso: oh, i guess you werent in sevilla.
<Hobbsee> his plan was not to be on the council in the first place
<Hobbsee> but i think he effectively had to, when i turned it down.
<tonyyarusso> Hobbsee: No - I'm not special enough for UDS.
<tonyyarusso> ah
<Hobbsee> it was via voip too
<tonyyarusso> These things like class and work and such get in the way.
<tonyyarusso> Sevilla was what, May?
<Hobbsee> yeah.  beginning of, iirc.
<Hobbsee> yeah, i know.  i have class and work, adn that's hte reasno i'm not there this time too
<tritium> Work is all-consuming
<tonyyarusso> Yeah, in May I was working like 50 hours a week, often in 12-hour days.
<Hobbsee> yuck
<tonyyarusso> Such is spring in a bike shop
<tritium> tonyyarusso: bike as in bicycle, or motorcycle?
<tonyyarusso> tritium: bicycle
<tritium> ah, cool
<tonyyarusso> tritium: any thoughts on workarounds for TB?
<tritium> tonyyarusso: no, sorry.
<tonyyarusso> k
<tonyyarusso> tritium: maybe a server-side issue.  https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=361182
<ubotu> Mozilla bug 361182 in Mail Window Front End "IMAP mail moved by filter incorrectly marked as read" [Major,Resolved: invalid] 
<elkbuntu> i so need to stop highlighting on 'automatix'... i keep going blind to the contents of red factoid and assuming they're the op call
<nalioth> elkbuntu: but they are "op calls"
<elkbuntu> lol
<elkbuntu> that's kinda why i do it, but i just told someone off for the 'emergency call'
<nalioth> automatix advisors are calling for op intervention
<tonyyarusso> haha, oops
<nalioth> and automatix questors are REALLY in need of intervention
<elkbuntu> nalioth, i told an automatix factoid caller off, for calling the factoid on someone
<nalioth> ah
<nalioth> ban everyone.
<mneptok> and Freenode edges closer to being EF ...
<elkbuntu> mneptok, you're watching -offtopic again?
<no0tic> how many international #ubuntu-something channels are there?
<nalioth> no0tic: /msg chanerv list #ubuntu-*
<no0tic> nalioth, it lists me only local channels.. I don't know why
<nalioth> me, neither.
<nalioth> awww  :(
<no0tic> nalioth, oh, yes, it lists only the first 100 entries
<nalioth> i'm hurt, no0tic 
<nalioth> "Not accepting messages from people"
<mneptok> elkbuntu: my comment was in reference to  <+nalioth> ban everyone.
<nalioth> mneptok: admit it, you're the mysterious founder of efnet
<mneptok> nalioth: i'm nasty, but that hurts.
<nalioth> amoebas feel pain?
<mneptok> i thought we had something special ...
<nalioth> we do.  we are on the same planet.
<JanC> nalioth: as you are freenode staff and seemingly not asleep :) , can you lift the 20-channel-limit on Freenode, or should I ask that in #freenode or something like that?
<nalioth> JanC: lift the limit on who?
<JanC> on me  :)
<nalioth> dunno if we lift the limits on boozers
<JanC> nalioth: thanks!  :-)
<Hobbsee> launchpad bug  #155144
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 155144 in kdelibs "KSelectAction stopped working for custom values" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/155144
<Hobbsee> !pinning
<ubotu> pinning is an advanced feature that APT can use to prefer particular packages over others. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PinningHowto
<Hobbsee> LP: 114893
<Hobbsee> bug 114893
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 114893 in gnome-hearts "Shooting the moon with the bonus diamond results in incorrect scoring" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/114893
<nalioth> alrighty then.
<Hobbsee> oh, decent bots is in -bugs
<SWAT> Shouldn't the IRC team cover the LoCo channels too? Or should this remain optional?
<no0tic> november, the first, holiday, #ubuntu-it has become a nursery
<dgjones> hi, could somebody put one of the bots to sleep in #ubuntu, ubotu and ubot3 are both answering any factoid queries
<ubotu> In ubotu, Pici said: seveas =~ s/repository/repository for Feisty and earlier/
<Pici> oops.
<ThunderStruck> Seveas, if your around can you please resync ubotu to debian bug tracker
<Seveas> ThunderStruck, there is no such thing as a resync...
<Seveas> it fetches data when asked
<ThunderStruck> it fails to
<ThunderStruck> ubotu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Debian: timed out
<Seveas> then the bugtracker is down :)
<ThunderStruck> i was able to go to it through website, because that is what i thought as well, oh and emailing the bugtracker works as well
<Seveas> it uses the soap proxy at bugs.donarmstrong.com
<ThunderStruck> the bot does?
<Seveas> it had to, bugs.debian.org didn't do soap
<ThunderStruck> ah ok
<Seveas> it does now, changed the plugin :)
<Seveas> debian bug 400001
<ubotu> Debian bug 400001 in python-support "python-support should warn and not fail when some files can't be byte-compiled" [Serious,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/400001
<ThunderStruck> ah cool ty 
<Seveas> debian bug 400002
<ubotu> Debian bug 400002 in gaim "gaim segfaults in DigestCalcResponse()" [Normal,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/400002
<ubotu> In ubotu, [ifr0g] said: !a is b
<ubotu> Seveas called the ops in #ubuntu-offtopic (sorry, just testing)
<tonyyarusso> oh hey
<tonyyarusso> cool
<ubotu> In ubotu, [ifr0g] said: !forgotpass is <reply> Boot-up the computer, If GRUB menu is hidden, press 'Esc' to enter the GRUB menu, Press 'e' to edit the boot command, Add "rw init=/bin/bash" to the end of the arguments, Press 'b' to boot.
<Seveas> LjL, bug 159184 fixed
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 159184 in ubuntu-bots "!ops pings #ubuntu-ops even when called in PM or #ubuntu-bots" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/159184
<Pici> Neat :)
<Hobbsee> !ping
<ubotu> pong
 * tonyyarusso wonders why the convertit guy is on his hilights list - Pici ?
<Pici> tonyyarusso: hm.. I dont know.
<tonyyarusso> ponder ponder
<PriceChild> Seveas, just wondering.... will that work with variations of ops, like !ops-#kubuntu ?
<Seveas> no
<Seveas> wel....
<Seveas> it won't work with !ops-#kubuntu, but it should work as !ops in #kubuntu
<PriceChild> yeah, cool :)
<Seveas> !ops-#ubuntu-ops is moo
<ubotu> I'll remember that, Seveas
<Seveas> !ops
<ubotu> ops is moo
<ubotu> Seveas called the ops in #ubuntu-ops ()
<PriceChild> hehe
<Seveas> !forget ops-#ubuntu-ops
<ubotu> I'll forget that, Seveas
<Pici> neat
<Dave2> calling the ops in #ubuntu-ops. How meta.
<Amaranth> what?
<Pici> Not what.  When.
<Amaranth> Where?
<Daviey> 2
<mneptok> elkbuntu: http://www.reuters.com/article/wtMostRead/idUSSYD21064820071101
<no0tic> I need to thank nalioth that advised me to use irssi, it's great; another irc experience
<jdong> no0tic: irssi is great; I switched to it and never looked back
<no0tic> jdong, now it's easy to make a trigger when I join saying /me is etc .. ;)
<nalioth> no0tic: you can use irssi with screen and access it from anywhere in the world (that has a network access)
<no0tic> nalioth, I'm using it via screen on a remote machine :)
<Pici> as I I :)
<nalioth> no0tic: excellent  :)
<Pici> s/*/as am I/
<no0tic> nalioth, and it sets me away when I detach the console :)
<jdong> no0tic: you can also use a combination of irssi-proxy and irssi with screen to get scrollback and have a "local" irssi to type into so that sshlag isn't too bothering
<jdong> no0tic: and you can even use my preforked pooling ping notifier to deliver pings to 10k+ clients ;-)
<Pici> nalioth: you might want to take a look at spine, he just spammed up #ubuntu and probably is doing it other places too
<jdong> but I don't recommend that :)
<Daviey> irssi also works on some mobiles/cells
<jdong> that's jdong rube goldbergness
<Daviey> irssi and gui notifications rock
<jdong> yes it does :)
<Pici> Agreed.  I hacked together an addition notify script that uses the libnotify critical status for things like ops, and the dcc stuff
<Daviey> I quite like split windows, to have a "hilight" window at the top
<jdong> yeah right now I use a ssh port-forwarded tunnel to connect my clients to irssi; I've got client-sides that output to the host OS's preferred notifier stack
<jdong> and the server side uses SQLite to keep track of client ID's and which pings they've received
<nalioth> Pici: thanks, another staffer punched his k-ticket
<Daviey> jdong: you are keen!
<jdong> I need a ping-clearing mechanism (marking away/unaway at the server)
<Daviey> I did set up a 'ticker' for hilights on my mythtv - but that quickly became annoying
<jdong> Daviey: just unwise in spending my time :)
<jdong> sounds cool
<mneptok> jdong: now all it needs is a complex systeam of cast iron gears and some Lisp!
<jdong> mneptok: apparmoring the stack right now ;-)
<jdong> I don't trust my network programming foo
<mneptok> CHUGGA CHUGGA
<Pici> CHOO CHOO
<Gary> whoop whoop
<mneptok> Gary: stop swinging the caboose like that. it's distracting.
<Gary> swinging what?
<mneptok> thank you. and now i need a smoke. phew.
 * jdong backs up....
<Gary> lol
 * Seveas gets the hell out of here
<jdong> err, *away*
<jdong> as in away
<jdong> Haha, we're talking retroviruses in bio right now....
 * Gary tickles Seveas 
<jdong> and step 1 of the cycle on the powerpoint was summed up to "penetration"
<Gary> did you giggle?
<jdong> Gary: of course
<jdong> Gary: I can't for the life of me figure out if the pun was intended
<Gary> I had to say wankel engine the other day, it made me giggle
<jdong> especially since the example specimen is HIV
<gnomefreak> jdong: unless your instructor has a sense of humor pun wasnt intented atleast nerver was with any of mine
<jdong> gnomefreak: he has a weird sense of humor though.... on a test we had to fill out and analyze a pedigree for "being hit by a bus" running in the family
<gnomefreak> than pun might have been intended ;)
<gnomefreak> god i hope this works
<ubotu> In ubotu, [ifr0g] said: flv is <reply> A Macromedia Flash MX video file in which the video and audio are compressed. To add flv support : sudo apt-get install kubuntu-restricted-extras
<jdong> ok, that's unnecessarily technical
<jdong> *adobe* Flash too
<Seveas> !flv is <alias> restricted
<ubotu> I'll remember that, Seveas
<Seveas> !resticted
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about resticted - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<Seveas> !restricted
<ubotu> For multimedia issues, this page has useful information: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats - See also http://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/common-tasks-chap.html - But please use free formats if you can: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FreeFormats
<jdong> better
<ubotu> In ubotu, kl4m said: autologin is http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=303319
<PriceChild> Hey Pskol, how's things?
<Pskol> i want to cloak my host with "ubuntu/member", can i?
<Pici> Pskol: Are you an Ubuntu Member?
<Pskol> Pici, what is a ubuntu member?
<LjL> !member
<ubotu> Want to become an Ubuntu member? Look at http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember
<nalioth> ubotu: tell Pskol about member
<Pskol> im registered at lauchpad, is this iok?
<PriceChild> Pskol, read the link...
<Pskol> ok
<PriceChild> Pskol, did you get the information you needed?
<Pskol> PriceChild, yes, thanks
<ubotu> nickrud called the ops in #ubuntu (matt__)
<Pici> Actually this guy brought up a good point, I dont see o4o on the IRC guidelines page (which we should link to in the topic)
<tonyyarusso> Probably a sensible addition
<no0tic> attack on #debian-it stay tuned
<jrib> yay no0tic is voiced
<no0tic> jrib, yeah
<no0tic> there was an annoying attack on #debian-it: mass join and /say, nothing harmful
<nalioth> trolls in #ubuntu 
#ubuntu-ops 2007-11-02
<PriceChild> Erm.... why is there a PriceChild online....
<PriceChild> *hasn't logged on for several hours*
<PriceChild> wait... thought i was on as pricey
<PriceChild> gah wrong network
<PriceChild> *smacks xchat for being so slow to refresh things on startup*
 * jrib gives PriceChild a cookie
 * crdlb gives PriceChild irssi
<crdlb> speaking of irssi, is there anything better out there than auto_bleh.pl?
<nalioth> better in what way?
<crdlb> more powerful? :)
<jrib> ability to slap a user?
<crdlb> like auto_bleh doesn't support unbanning by nick lookup afaict
<nalioth> crdlb: you should track down goert and find out where his suggestion box is
<Pici> crdlb: I think sev.eas or j.dong were working on a version of the xchat script for irssi.
<crdlb> that would be great, too bad there's no python script support :(
<crdlb> if there were, I'd do it :)
<jdong> Pici: yeah, I volunteered to do that
<jdong> it's not the python->perl that'll take a long time, as I've said before...
<Pici> jdong: did that hilight you?
<jdong> it's the xchat API -> irssi API
<jdong> Pici: you'd be surprised :)
<crdlb> jdong: well yeah, but I could handle that, I just don't want to learn perl :)
<jdong> Pici: is it weird to have a regexp hilight? :)
<LjL> does anyone else get the impression that there's too many people joining #u?
<ubotu> Hirvinen called the ops in #kubuntu (k5ubuntu /danny/ubuntu_/ubuntu_admin)
<LjL> !no kompozer is a WYSIWYG HTML editor for easily creating web pages, and the continuation of the dead Nvu project. It is available in !Universe on !Gutsy, while for older versions you can add the following to your /etc/apt/sources.list file: Â« deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/tonyyarusso/ubuntu {edgy,feisty} universe Â»  (pick your release and list it without brackets)
<ubotu> I'll remember that LjL
<Tm_T> hi kids
<mneptok> buongiorno, padrone.
<LjL> i see your italian has improved
<LjL> (or you've started to use babelfish instead)
 * jdong opts with the latter
<jdong> that would be a sweet irssi script though
<jdong> something like /translate german foobar
 * LjL suspects it too, given that "padrone" would be a likely babelfish translation for "sir"
<LjL> jdong, i kind of suspect there are plenty of those around already
<LjL> there was a babelfish script for AmIRC
<jdong> LjL: don't tell me that... you know I'll just set it to randomized languages and walk around all day speaking incoherent mixes of languages :)
<LjL> jdong: meh, learn to do that without babelfish
<LjL> actually learning languages is hard
<jdong> oui senior.
<LjL> but learning enough of them to create incoherent mixes is fun
<LjL> precis det jag sade
<mneptok> LjL: i meant it in the Sicilian sense ;)
<Tm_T> LjL: jag tycker om inte dig
<mneptok> stjel sÃ¸lvet, brenn byen, voldta fjÃ¦rfeet.
<LjL> mneptok: you know, now that REALLY makes no sense to me
<mneptok> the "padrone" or the Nyorsk?
<LjL> Tm_T: jag vill inte gillas
<LjL> mneptok: the latter
<Tm_T> LjL: hoppas det
<mneptok> "loot the silver. burn the town. rape the poultry."
<mneptok> i learned it in Viking Basic Training
<LjL> hm, i guess i could have guessed brenn byn
<LjL> i only learned that mÃ¥nga pengar smÃ¥ blir till en stor Ã¥
<Tm_T> what you say about that Creationist nick?
<Tm_T> against some rule?
<LjL> hm
<LjL> nah
<Tm_T> so I can do /nick Judish then?
<Tm_T> or, Satanist
<LjL> look the "nick issue" comes up once in a while... to me it's a case where one should judge by common sense on a case-by-case basis
<LjL> to my common sense, "creationist" as a nickname is not insulting or anything
<Tm_T> not more than "satanist"
<Tm_T> in some point of way, they're the same
<LjL> Tm_T: what about ToHellWithGA, who we've never asked to change nickname? (poor him, he's always brought up as an example when talking about nickname issues :)
<Tm_T> never seen him
<LjL> he's an -offtopic regular
 * mneptok nods
<LjL> anyway, he's in #kubuntu and you're a #kubuntu op - ask him to change his nickname if you think he should. just be prepared to argue with him :)
<nalioth> who are we talking about?
<Tm_T> anyway, I'm off, have fun and dont forget, all you need is love (kickbans) love (kickbans) ->
<LjL> nalioth: Creationist, in #ubuntu
<LjL> questionable nickname according to Tm_T
<nalioth> let him be
<nalioth> jesus and god and yahweh are around here somewhere, too
<LjL> Yahovah you mean
<nalioth> that, too
<mneptok> it's "YHWH" ;)
<LjL> that's his ident, yes
<tritium> I don't see how labeling oneself as a creationist is offensive.  It's self-identifying.
<tritium> Unless we think identifying ourselves as ubunteros, ubuntu members, etc. might offend redhat users, etc.
<LjL> tritium: well gnomefreak was considering temporary dropping his cloak to be taken seriously in ##windows, i believe ;)
<LjL> anyway, i agree i find it an alright nickname
<tritium> was he?  :)
<LjL> tritium: well but in the end he kept it afaik :)
<Tm_T> hey, I didnt say he's offending :p
<tritium> :)
<Tm_T> and no I'm not irc addict
<LjL> Tm_T: i think we should distinguish !o4o from "what's allowed as a nickname". the latter should just "be respectful", imho, we shouldn't restrict people's nickname to anything that might have a remote possibility of starting a flamewar
<Tm_T> I know
<Tm_T> I mostly asked if it is offending or anything
<LjL> say, the guy who still often joins here (because he's still banforwarded, and still doesn't get it), "pigcum"... that's what i won't allow as a nickname - that's just offensive
<LjL> but creationist, or even satanist... sure, there's a line somewhere
<Tm_T> yup
<Tm_T> though xp_killer or wii isnt allowed ;--P
<LjL> well that's another matter =)
<Tm_T> LjL: I find them both offensive
<Tm_T> but I was going away, was I?
<LjL> you said you would
<tritium> Tm_T: how is it offensive?
<Tm_T> tritium: both reminds me of him
<LjL> Tm_T: you also said something about kickbans, want some? will help with the going away :P
<tritium> Tm_T: him being who?
<Tm_T> tritium: himself
<LjL> are we running in circles here? :o)
<tritium> Tm_T: please specify the offense
<Tm_T> tritium: big annoyance for all ops in freenode ?
<LjL> tritium, xp_killer aka wii aka mii aka god-knows-what is a known annoying troll who's banned from #ubuntu, #ubuntu-fr and #compiz-fusion at least
<Tm_T> though apparently not you
<Tm_T> and #kubuntu and ummm
<tritium> I've not run across him.
<Tm_T> and atleast one kline
<LjL> tritium: possibly because he's banned from the world ;)
<Tm_T> if no more
<tritium> LjL: ;)
<LjL> Tm_T: i think at least two
<Tm_T> anyway, this old hermit is heading off finally, hugs ->
<LjL> anyway, i'm going to be as well
<tritium> Tm_T: I thought you found "creationist" offensive
<tritium> That's what I was asking about.
<crdlb> oh wow I didn't know xp_killer was wii
<crdlb> that's very helpful because we were planning on banning a pretty big range in #c-f but he was in that range
<gnomefreak> yeah i was thinking about it but i fixed it myself, because im an avid linux user and i guess that still makes me better at windows than them dumb craps
<elkbuntu_> gnomefreak, you're not an ubuntu-server person, are you by any chance?
<gnomefreak> nope
<elkbuntu_> nevermind
<AndrewB> Could it be possible to add a factoid of 'hey' so it has the same response as !hi or !howdy
<Hobbsee> !hey is <alias> hell
<ubotu> Factoid 'hell' does not exist
<Hobbsee> !hey is <alias> hello
<ubotu> I'll remember that, Hobbsee
<Pici> Is aoirthoir supposed to be banned from #ubuntu too, or just -offtopic?
<Pici> LjL: of course, when you show up, The Zoo (formally known as #ubuntu) gets quiet.
<LjL> Pici: then what happens if i +o, we lose 500 users? :P
<LjL> !rtf | Pici
<ubotu> Pici: Software packages to deal with the RTF format include: abiword, catdoc, unrtf, latex2rtf (for parsing), enscript, aft, sdf, udo, wv (for creating)
<Pici> !typo | LjL 
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about typo - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<LjL> Pici: never let a typo remain one :)
<LjL> not that i remember anyone ever asking about RTF
<LjL> but someone might
<jrib> no vim and emacs?
<LjL> jrib: no "cat", for that matter :)
<jussi01> hmmm, whats the uds channel anyone know?
<Hobbsee> #uds-boston
<jussi01> Hobbsee: thanks :)
<mnk3ym4n> could someone please test me for that dcc exploit nonsense?
<Pici> mnk3ym4n: just a moment.
<LjL> mnk3ym4n: nonsense? anyway, sure
<mnk3ym4n> :) thanks guys
<LjL> Pici: you replied first, you do it :)
<Pici> mnk3ym4n: you seem good, hold on.
<mnk3ym4n> *flex*
<mnk3ym4n> heh
<Pici> mnk3ym4n: you can no rejoin #ubuntu
<Pici> er, now
<mnk3ym4n> ty
<|Steffan|> Hello!
<|Steffan|> Is it possible to unban me from #ubuntu
<|Steffan|> I was a bit frustrated... so I said. "I'm sorry to say.. Ubuntu sucks"
<|Steffan|> That was stupid
<|Steffan|> I could not tell my problem.. I was already banned
<Pici> |Steffan|: hold on.
<Pici> LjL: still around?
<LjL> Pici: yes, was writing a factoid, let me check
<ubotu> In #ubuntu-offtopic, Amaranth said: !forget compizblacklist
<ubotu> In #ubuntu-offtopic, Amaranth said: !compizblacklist is <alias>effects
<Amaranth> grr
<Amaranth> @login
<ubotu> OK
<LjL> |Steffan|: how do you like kvirc? better than what you were using previously?
<|Steffan|> I always used kvirc
<|Steffan|> ok.. I tried some before
<LjL> |Steffan|: oh? then i'm afraid you've lost your settings
<|Steffan|> but kvirc is hte best
<|Steffan|> Maybe it was the windows version...
<LjL> because your username is different from what it used to be - it's not the default kvirc username
<|Steffan|> No.. Steffan is my username
<Pici> |Steffan| (n=kvirc@ip56515a0a.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl)
<LjL> Steffan: username, not nickname
<Steffan> if it isn't the default kvirc name
<Steffan> it should be Steffan
<LjL> it was steffa2, last time you joined
<Steffan> ah ok
<LjL> !etiquette | Steffan
<ubotu> Steffan: Unsure how you should behave on this channel? See !AskTheBot, !CoC, !Guidelines, !Offtopic, !Language, !Attitude, !Repeat, !Enter, !Paste, !NickSpam - and most importantly, use common sense :-)
<LjL> Steffan: please type /msg ubotu !all-of-that
<LjL> make sure you read it all before joining again
<LjL> next time, you will find it much harder to be unbanned
<LjL> so, make sure there is no "next time" ;)
<Steffan> That it only one rule :P
<Steffan> Sorry, I don't know anything about all-of-that - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<Steffan> :P
<LjL> Steffan, come on, you know what i meant. everything in !etiquette
<Steffan> I don't have to read... need to calm down... try to not be frustrated
<Steffan> or not join frustrated into #ubuntu
<Steffan> Thanks LjL
<LjL> well, i'll take it as if you had read it anyway. so, don't misbehave again
<Steffan> I wont
<Steffan> ok.. I will, but not in #ubuntu
<ubot3`> In #ubuntu, LjL said: !no raid is <reply> Tips and tricks for RAID and LVM can be found on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RaidConfigurationHowto and http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/LVM-HOWTO - For software RAID, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FakeRaidHowto
<ubot3`> In #ubuntu, LjL said: !fakeraid is <alias> raid
<LjL> nalioth, can you part it from #ubuntu and wherever it is that ubotu is too? /remove only works until it reconnects...
<Pici> LjL: I had just been muting it.
<LjL> Pici: muting doesn't help with PMs being sent by multiple bots
<Pici> LjL: Indeed.
<Pici> LjL: Also, was it correct to look for a council member for a not-so-serious ban like that since the op in question wasnt around, or ?
<LjL> Pici, i think it doesn't hurt. after all, we're still crawling out of the "bans can only be removed by the banner" unwritten policy, and i still think it's a policy that has merits in many cases (it's often hard to actually grasp the entire deal by just looking at the logs), so being cautious is fine with me
<LjL> i'm actually going to comment on the unban - as i think it should always be done when removing bans
<Pici> Sounds good.
<LjL> uh i'm not sure if i've just been kicked from somewhere... sometimes i think i see my channel list shrinking, but then sometimes it's just my imagination :o)
<LjL> annoyingly /remove don't get me a message until i rejoin
<Pici> Theres no message from remove? so you couldnt set a trigger?
<LjL> Pici: i suppose i could set some sort of trigger - although konversation is a bit awkward with triggers
<PriceChild> So do conference cloaks cover project ones?
<PriceChild> ah maybe not *spies someone else*
<LjL> !no pidgin is the new name for Gaim forced by AOL's legal dept. It is available in Ubuntu 7.10 (Gutsy), but not previous versions. See http://www.pidgin.im/index.php for more info. To install Pidgin please see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallPidgin2.0
<ubotu> I'll remember that LjL
<kbrooks> ljl: the linked wiki page  in !pidgin advocates compiling 
<LjL> kbrooks: well, there is no other decent way in <Gutsy that i know of
<kbrooks> ljl: ok, but uh 
<LjL> kbrooks, as far as i can see, it doesn't "advocate" it, it just tells you how to do it, while specifying that the "recommended" method is using the package on gutsy, and that compiling it manually won't get you updates etc.
<LjL> after all, RootSudo explains how to enable root, too.
<kbrooks> kk 
<ubotu> In ubotu, ebrahim said: !OpenSolaris is an open source project created by Sun Microsystems to build a developer community around Solaris Operating System technology. See http://www.opensolaris.org/
<Pici> er, bye.
<LjL> we shouldn't have that factoid should we
<Pici> I dont think so.
<kbrooks> not ubuntu related 
<jdong> nope
<jdong> few peole would be asking about OpenSolaris anyway
<jdong> not saying it's not a cool project or anything
<jdong> it's very interesting indeed
<kbrooks> its OT in #ubuntu anyway 
<Pici> Perhaps if we ran #opensolaris... but we dont.
<jdong> Pici: "Perhaps if we were a real UNIX"
 * jdong hides
<jdong> !azureus
<ubotu> azureus is a popular bittorent client written in Java, installation instructions can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AzureusHowTo
<Pici> see also !jdong
<jdong> lol
<jdong> meh I'll add some Gutsy instructions this afternoon
<gnomefreak> what is the app that lets you use mouse in text mode?
<Pici> oh oh I know this one..
<mjr> gpm
<gnomefreak> ty
<Pici> Oh, I lied.
<gnomefreak> i used to know it
 * gnomefreak hopes X gets fixed soon 
<Pici> I used to know it too
<gnomefreak> ljl had given someone it a while a ago and i couldnt remember to save life
<LjL> well, apt-cache search mouse console hints at it ;)
<gnomefreak> that would be too easy ;)
<LjL> i think gerro is going to get a ban soon
<Pici> Is SudoKing supposed to be banned in #ubuntu? I heard he was causing a ruckus somewhere else.
<LjL> oh, he just gave me the factoid and then left
<LjL> i'll just ban him right away
<LjL> Pici: not sure
<gnomefreak> ty mjr it works (weird) but works
<LjL> going for dinner
<LjL> an eye on -offtopic, people talking about statutory rape
<Pici> I saw..
<Pici> or, rather, o4o hilighted me
<Pici> and now I step away for a few too (didnt see what time it was)
<ubotu> In #ubuntu-offtopic, kolby said: !!  the tension is getting to me
<LjL> he doesn't know anything about tension
<LjL> yet
<Pici> Whats the official stance on supporting Ubuntu variants, I'd like something official sounding to tell these people.
<nalioth> Pici: we don't.
<Pici> nalioth: we dont support them, or we dont have something official sounding?
<ompaul> both
<nalioth> i mean, if i take Ubuntu and name it nalioths-favorite-linux and only change "ubuntu" for 'nalioths-favorite-linux', obviossly we can support it
<ompaul> the only thing you can do is point them to the "versions" channels
<Pici> Sounds good.
<nalioth> if it's way different from Ubuntu, they need to go to #%distro
<Pici> Linux Mint, gOS..
<nalioth> but direct clones or "we just changed the colors and language" subvariants . . . 
<Pici> Understood.
<mneptok> I'm gonna be a lazy slob. Stuff the folks and sod the job. And tell the silbs that I'm ill. And in a week I'll be here still. Yes I will. But if I got my way those idle rich would pay. When the discussion starts of the lively arts.
<LjL> i've done some quite major restructuring of the p2p related factoids, in particular
<LjL> !torrent
<ubotu> Torrent clients: Azureus (Java), BitTornado (Shell with python front-end), KTorrent (KDE/Qt), rTorrent (C++) -  Bittorent FAQ: http://www.bittorrent.com/FAQ.html
<LjL> !no torrent is <reply> Torrent clients: Transmission (GTK and terminal-based), Deluge-Torrent, Freeloader, BitStormLite, BitTornado-GUI (GTK), KTorrent (KDE), QTorrent (Qt), Azureus (Java), TorrentFlux (web-based), bittornado, rTorrent, cTorrent, bittorrent, aria2 (terminal-based) - FAQ: http://www.bittorrent.com/FAQ.html - See also !P2P
<ubotu> I'll remember that LjL
<LjL> !p2p
<ubotu> Conventional P2P clients: Limewire/GTK-Gnutella/Frostwire (Gnutella Network).  -  BitTorrent: see !torrent  -  Direct connect: try valknut.  -  Also see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/P2PFileSharing for general information.
<LjL> !no p2p is <reply> Peer-to-peer filesharing clients are available for several networks/protocols, including !BitTorrent, !Gnutella, !Edonkey, !DirectConnect, !SoulSeek - Multi-protocol engines include !MLDonkey and !giFT - See wiki.ubuntu.com/P2PFileSharing for general information
<Pici> Did you setup !factoids for all of those?
<LjL> Pici: 'course
<Pici> I had to clean up the !ftp and !ftpd factoids because none existed for any of them.
<LjL> just check them out and see if there's anything to add - or to remove, for that matter, i don't know if some of the clients suck
<Pici> I dont do p2p file sharing
<LjL> otoh, i never thought it was such a good thing to have Limewire and Frostwire prominently in !p2p, as they're not even in the repositories
<LjL> (which is the main reason i started making these changes)
<Pici> Ah.
<Pici> Are they in the wiki page?
<LjL> Pici, i created !ftp and !ftpd back when !<package> was automatically an alias for !info <package> (which was later removed due to bot load)
<Pici> LjL: Ah.
 * Pici wanders around
<LjL> Pici: yeah, they're mentioned on the page, and they have their own wiki pages
<LjL> i suppose i should let those ones have '!'
<LjL> anyway, it would still be good if !<package> worked... :\
<gerro> I'd like to appeal a ban imposed by LjL, I was trying to help someone delete a folder and told them to do rm -Rf it deletes anything. LjL did !whatworksforyou or something along those lines then proceeded to comment to a user that /usr should only ever be used by apt and never touched so I did !whatworksforyou or whatever comment it was. I think it is unjust to ban someone because they do things differently.
<LjL> gerro: it would be unjust indeed. however, you certainly do realize that we simply want certain things to be done in a certain ways, and do NOT support (or want people to support) other unsupported ways.
<LjL> but that's not really the point, even
<LjL> what i really did not understand was the !worksforme you did to me - i hadn't, i think, said anything that "worked for me", so it looked like you were simply trolling me
<LjL> [Fri Nov 2 2007] [20:17:29] <gerro>     Le_Fou`Absent: may programs use /usr not just apt, its like the place to put general applications
<LjL> [Fri Nov 2 2007] [20:17:51] <LjL>       gerro: which should only be put there by APT, yes (except for /usr/local)
<LjL> [Fri Nov 2 2007] [20:18:18] <Le_Fou`Absent>     ok gerro
<LjL> [Fri Nov 2 2007] [20:20:45] <gerro>     !worksforme | LjL
<LjL> [Fri Nov 2 2007] [20:20:56] Quit        gerro has left this server ("Leaving").
<gerro> APT is not a physical entity LjL it is your own computer
<LjL> you did this, and then left suddenly
<gerro> yeah I come and go
<LjL> gerro, that doesn't mean you should give people bad advice
<LjL> YOU are perfectly free to put whatever cruft you like in /usr
<gerro> I give people advice its their judgement what is bad
<LjL> but you must also understand that you are NOT expected to encourage people to do likewise, in #ubuntu
<gerro> I do it for free and don't ask for anything in return that is the idea behind irc
<nalioth> gerro: doing it for free doesn't give you license to give bad advice
<LjL> it's not only their judgement, it's also our judgement. "ours" as in "the operator's". we DO determine what is supposed by us, and what is discouraged.
<gerro> I did not break anyones system
<LjL> are you willing to accept that?
<LjL> s/supposed/supported/
<mneptok>  < gerro> I give people advice its their judgement what is bad  <---- totally unacceptable
<mneptok> we're talking about a lot of new users here.
<mneptok> they don't understand how things work.
<gerro> I'll refrain from speaking on #ubuntu then
<mneptok> by your logic, i could tell a child that if they stick a gun in their mouth and pull the trigger they'll get candy. and if any kids die, well that's their own fault.
<gerro> I refuse to agree with LjL and I dislike undermining the intelligence of others...
<tonyyarusso> Same goes for #xubuntu and all other channels, btw.
<mneptok> gerro: saying "if a user takes my bad advice and breaks their system, that's not my fault. i can tell people to do whatever i want." is very much not in the spirit of the CoC!
<mneptok> -!
<JanC> gerro: even a very intelligent kid doesn't know what harm a gun can do without being told
<mneptok> gerro: helping people on public IRC channels is a responsibility. not a game.
<JanC> that's why you don't give loaded guns to kids to play with
<gerro> I will not condescend to considering the other users of ubuntu kids..
<Seeker`> gerro: Quite a few users are kids, or people who are just starting out
#ubuntu-ops 2007-11-03
<LjL> gerro, then i guess you just haven't been on #ubuntu long enough. i wouldn't like to insult anyone's intelligence either, but *whenever* someone foolishly gave a very destructive command in #ubuntu, there *was* someone who ran it.
<gerro> aye but to make such generalisations is prejudice bigotry
<LjL> our policy is that giving such commands such simply not happen - not that it's the business of those who execute them
<mneptok> gerro: accurately estimating someone's skills and tailoring your approach is not condescension. it's common courtesy.
<LjL> of course, mistakes can happen, and one may give a potentially dangerous command or instruction without realizing it's dangerous
<tonyyarusso> It's bigotry to refrain from telling people to do stupid things?
<LjL> but that doesn't mean one should systematically disregard the possibility that their advice might be bad, and give random advice anyway assuming that the users will know better
<LjL> the users will NOT know better, as they're in #ubuntu to GET help
<gerro> to consider someone foolish on either side
<LjL> GOOD help
<nalioth> they trust the help they get in #ubuntu will not harm them
<gerro> I have not harmed anyone
<nalioth> gerro: you're missing the point.
<gerro> but if they ask me such I will tell them regardless
<mneptok> gerro: if you're going to willingly dispense advice that goes against Ubuntu best practices, then i'm in no hurry to see you unbanned.
<mneptok> but that's just me.
<gerro> you can not know how what you say will be used no matter how you comment it
<Seeker`> gerro: it is irresponsible to assume that people who are asking for help know what they are doing / experts
<gerro> what is Ubuntu's best practices?
<LjL> gerro, i do understand that you may not agree with our policies on channel running. however, i merely ask you to either respect them anyway, or avoid giving advice in #ubuntu - it's your choice, nobody forces you either way. i will happily unban you if you understand that you aren't supposed to give ANY sort of advice.
<gerro> I only disagree with your policies LjL
<mneptok> gerro: novice users should not be poking around with sudo in /usr
<gerro> and there is no "our" you just disrespected every user of ubuntu everywhere
<LjL> gerro, the policies, or best practices, are to give advice that is supported by the official Ubuntu documentation; to always prefer packages in the repositories when available; to avoid giving instructions that may harm a system; to avoid giving instructions that may hinder the functioning of official Ubuntu features, such as APT
<LjL> gerro, i think there is an "our", as for now, i see every other operator in here agreeing with me, unless i'm blind
<gerro> I do not know that user personally or out of irc, I can not judge him to be a novice. I have installed many programs not through apt into /usr
<mneptok> and in this particular case, i'm telling point blank that unleashing rm -rf on /usr and wielded by novices is not a good practice, and should be discouraged.
<Seeker`> gerro: but you cannot judge him to be an expert, so you assume they are a novice, which is the safest option
<LjL> gerro: is there any valid reason why you didn't install them into /usr/local or /opt instead?
<mneptok> LjL: that sounds like a whole different conversation i'd like to ignore :)
<gerro> mneptok: those were two different users
<gerro> mneptok: I would never tell someone to rm random system files
<gerro> mneptok: my problem with LjL is he told someone they couldn't use /usr unless they used apt, and trolled me about using the rm command
<gerro> I told him it was like he said personal preference for both
<LjL> mneptok, it's part of the reason he was banned, in a way. it went like this: 1) he advised a user, "always do rm -Rf to delete something"  2) i gave him !worksforme  3) i told a user who had just removed /usr/lib/apache2 manually to never do that again, because only APT should touch /usr  4) he said "ma[n]y programs use /usr not just apt, its like the place to put general applications"
<mneptok> gerro: being told a factoid by the channel bot is not trolling.
<LjL> for the others' benefit as well
<LjL> then he gave me !worksforme and left
<mneptok> gerro: not when the attempt is an honest attempth to educate
<gerro> mneptok: trolling, spam, whatever you prefer to call it
<gerro> LjL: why is it wrong to leave?
<mneptok> gerro: /ignore works in most modern IRC clients ....  *shrug*
<LjL> gerro: it's not wrong, but it definitely gave me the impression that you were just trolling me
<gerro> mneptok: not wise to do when you can get banned
<LjL> as an aside, it's interesting that a lot of people are spamming #Ubuntu right while we're here arguing.
<LjL> oh well, must be coincidential.
<somerville32> :(
<gerro> LjL: what does that have to do with anything?
<LjL> gerro: nothing, just saying.
<LjL> i mean, "as an aside"
<gerro> I'm sorry I don't study drama
<LjL> well, just disregard that comment.
<gerro> kk
<LjL> gerro, anyway, as far as the !worksforme | ljl and-then-leaving goes, again, i'd be the happiest to remove your ban. the problem however is that this discussion we've had leads me to believe that your idea of "offering support" is entirely different from what we expect in #ubuntu -- if that has to mean you aren't going to offer any more support, then i must say, so be it
<gerro> I didn't ask for you specifically to remove the ban and I really don't care what anyones idea is of "offering support" so long as there is freedom of speech. In the end whatever happens happens and I hope we can all learn something.
<PriceChild> <gerro> I didn't ask for you specifically to remove the ban - ????? Your opening line was: <gerro> I'd like to appeal a ban imposed by LjL,
<somerville32> Oh well
<gerro> I really do wish to /ignore LjL
<LjL> gerro: there isn't "freedom of speech" in most senses of the world on IRC channels
<gerro> I find him rather insulting to common users of Ubuntu of which I am related
<gerro> LjL: you can not raise one instance where advice I gave broke anyones system or inhibited someone
<gerro> your just hitting in the dark at hypothetical situations with no backing
<PriceChild> gerro, please /ignore ljl, âif you wish.
<gerro> PriceChild: thank you
<LjL> gerro: that's not the point. you have very explicitly stated that, if allowed in #ubuntu, you'd feel free to give people any sort of advice you feel like, whether good or bad, whether supported or unsupported, etc.  that's not acceptable, period.
<PriceChild> You need no-one's approval to do that.
<LjL> i think you have had your appeal, since several other operators gave their opinion
<gerro> I'd give them good idea but whose the judge of what is good or not
<LjL> us.
<LjL> ultimately.
<gerro> I only confronted you LjL
<PriceChild> gerro, that is unacceptable though...
<PriceChild> gerro, people come into #ubuntu for advice, good advice.
<LjL> gerro, are you still missing the point that all the other operators who just gave their opinion disagreed with your view?
<LjL> so, stop thinking it's an issue with me.
<PriceChild> gerro, I admit I haven't read the logs of the incident yet, but I am totally opposed to your views on this that I have seen you express.
<PriceChild> gerro, many users won't ever have used the cli before being instructed to in #ubuntu
<gerro> PriceChild: they asked a cli question and I gave the anser
<gerro> answer*
<LjL> PriceChild, indeed the incident was fairly minor, and i'd have been very willing to remove the ban after clarifying each other. but what we clarified is quite disconcerning
<Pici> LjL: +1
<PriceChild> gerro, as I have stated, I haven't looked at that. But we do not want bad advice given in our channel, EOD.
<nalioth> people who come to #ubuntu expect answers that will not hurt their systems.  Many who come there have never used a non-Windows OS before and are totally at the mercy of those providing answers
<gerro> bad advice is not relative to any persons view, it either physically is or it isn't
<nalioth> advising rm -rf /usr is bad advice
<gerro> I did NOT** do that
<LjL> nalioth, that's not what he did
<gerro> okay?
<PriceChild> gerro, I'm afraid I don't understand that....? physically?
<gerro> PriceChild: LjL stated I *could* have let someone whom is stupid damage their system. Which brings to wonder why they are calling ubuntu users stupid. Wouldn't they damage it either way if I were there? And least they learned something they requested themself. I did not have any part in what someone else did
<gerro> if I weren't there I meant
<PriceChild> Ok I don't think we are getting the point across and so there is no further use in discussion.
<nalioth> gerro: i suspect LjL meant 'ignorant' not 'stupid'
<Pici> I think hes trying to say that bad advice is objective, not subjective.
<gerro> nalioth: both the same
<gerro> Pici: exactly!
<nalioth> gerro: ignorance is reduced through education, but stupid people choose not to learn
<nalioth> gerro: i'm sorry, but 'ignorant' and 'stupid' are definitely NOT the same
<PriceChild> gerro, The ban will not be lifted at this time. I suggest you /msg ubotu guidelines, and think further about the damage that can be caused by questionable advice given to beginners in #ubuntu.
<gerro> nalioth: I see where your going
<gerro> it doesn't state #ubuntu is for beginners
<gerro> and they asked about the cli
<PriceChild> I never said it wasn't.
<PriceChild> I simply suggested you think further about the damage that can be caused by questionable advice given to beginners in #ubuntu.
<nalioth> in #ubuntu you should consider anyone who asks a question to be a beginner
<gerro> is it wrong of me to ask non beginner related questions on #ubuntu?
<nalioth> gerro: not at all
<PriceChild> gerro, of course not.
<gerro> just wondering if I was on topic cause I sometimes ask about things on there
<PriceChild> Please don't try and be clever with us.
<gerro> no I was just wondering about that! I don't keep up on news and stuff about channels etc
<gerro> only recently found there was an #ubuntu-offtopic and never knew about this channel
<PriceChild> gerro, is there anything else that we can help you with today?
<gerro> I really don't know
<gerro> I was merely replying to situation earlier seeing as LjL found it so offensive I had to leave suddenly
<PriceChild> gerro, Ljl did not find it offensive, he requested you think further about the advice that you give. You had no need to leave suddenly.
<gerro> he stated himself 3 times that I left so suddenly earlier before I was banned
<PriceChild> gerro, that bears no relevance.
<gerro> I know I just didn't want to be rude
<PriceChild> gerro, I really don't understand what you're trying to get at, I have already stated above our decision, and suggested you think about what damage bad advice can have.
<gerro> that is why I came here and promptly stated the situation
<PriceChild> And I've stated our decision...
<LjL> gerro, i may have misinterpreted that as rudeness, but that's not the problem now -- the problem now is that, as you repeatedly stated, you're not willing to go with supported/"good" advice in #ubuntu
<PriceChild> after reviewing your attitude in this channel, and the logs of you in #ubuntu, the ban will not be lifted at this time.
<gerro> I have stated that I will give good support to the best of my knowledge
<PriceChild> No you didn't...
<gerro> yes I have
<gerro> as far as guidelines and other peoples views, I know nothing of them and refuse to because there is no manual for them.
<PriceChild> !guidelines
<ubotu> The people in this channel are volunteers. Your attitude will determine how fast you are helped. See also http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines
<gerro> except the ubotu thing that I didn't know exited
<gerro> existed I mean
<PriceChild> (It is also linked to from the #ubuntu channel /topic)
<gerro> (I got banned from #ubuntu so can't read the /topic, the irony of that is rather funny lol)
<Pici> /topic #ubuntu will return the channel topic
<PriceChild> You would also have seen it on entry... *yawns*
<PriceChild> How rude.
<LjL> bots don't have feelings
<gerro> I've been reading that page you linked me to and it says nothing about quality of advice you give on irc
<gerro> however it did reference another page http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct is that to which your refering?
<PriceChild> "Be considerate. Your work will be used by other people, and you in turn will depend on the work of others. Any decision you take will affect users and colleagues, and we expect you to take those consequences into account when making decisions." would apply here I think.
<LjL> gerro: no, no, it's the guidelines. mostly the "When helping, be helpful" part. it says "Please try to avoid outdated, or possibly wrong information."
<LjL> right, that, too
<LjL> i agree that perhaps some things could be made more explicit in the guidelines.
<PriceChild> as well as that :)
<PriceChild> *sigh* I really didn't think it was needed....
<gerro> I seem to think this discussion more reflects  The Ubuntu community and its members treat one another with respect. Everyone can make a valuable contribution to Ubuntu. We may not always agree, but disagreement is no excuse for poor behaviour and poor manners.
<gerro> thought that first comment was more oriented to developing..
<PriceChild> gerro, I'm fed up now :/
<LjL> PriceChild: well, it's not the first time this sort of argument comes up. i'm definitely not thinking of over-specific rules like "don't tell people to use automatix" (that sort of stuff is fine in the bot), but really, maybe the "when helping be helpful" part could be elaborated on.
<PriceChild> gerro, We don't want bad advice given to users in #ubuntu
<gerro> whose definition defines bad advice though
<gerro> such rules can not be truthfully enforced
<PriceChild> LjL, I thintk he last sentence covers it myself.
<PriceChild> gerro, operators make the final decision, using their best judgement and we enforce it.
<gerro> I never read that in the guidelines though ^^
<LjL> gerro, as i said... ultimately, our decision. on our turn, we try to follow the official Ubuntu documentation, as well as some general rules which i *have* outlined to you earlier
<PriceChild> gerro, that isn't our fault.
<gerro> either way I don't see why I am being held accountable to things I have never been told and are undocumented as you have pointed out
<PriceChild> gerro, if you do not read the /topic of a channel to find the guidelines... including some ridiculously obvious stuff like "don't give bad advice"... then more fool you.
<nalioth> gerro: ahhh, in every country of the world "ignorance of the law is no excuse"
<PriceChild> The guidelines ARE there.
<jdong> the Ubuntu Technical Board would be the authority in what's considered bad advice
<LjL> gerro, i wouldn't "account" you, and i already told you that i would be happy to unban you - BEFORE this conversation.
<jdong> and what the IRC operators enforce is right in line with their opinions.
<LjL> now, it's clear to me what your opinions are, and that they're NOT compatible with the way #ubuntu is run.
<LjL> for reference, what i said earlier was: [01:05:58] <LjL> gerro, the policies, or best practices, are to give advice that is supported by the official Ubuntu documentation; to always prefer packages in the repositories when available; to avoid giving instructions that may harm a system; to avoid giving instructions that may hinder the functioning of official Ubuntu features, such as APT
<LjL> PriceChild, i think the above (more, less, debatable) *might* have a place in the guidelines. the folks in -it have some new provisional guidelines that are quite explicit, for instance - *too* explicit for my tastes, as i told them, but imho some of that might have merits
<PriceChild> gerro, I set a mute... allows you to rejoin but not talk.
<mneptok> jdong: not to overstep my bounds, but i think opinions from my self or my colleagues can be used prior to an official TechBoard decision. for quick'n'dirty opinions.
<PriceChild> I think we need to clarify what the "ubuntu-irc" team means also, how you get accepted, who's eligible etc. We should set a date for a IC meeting.
<LjL> PriceChild: agree
<jdong> mneptok: yes, I whole-heartedly agree
<jdong> mneptok: I'm just saying the TB would be the most authoritative body and highest level of escalation in case of a disagreement.
<mneptok> i think we're all equally uncomfortable with me coming within 10 astronomical units of official policy. ;)
<PriceChild> From the CoC: "On technical matters, the Technical Review Board can make a final decision." - its a final decision... if agreements can't be made by those before, such as operators
<LjL> PriceChild: which we generally do. but to avoid this kind of endless discussions with people who aren't OK with us "dictating policy" that's not already written into the guidelines, perhaps we should write it into the guidelines
<LjL> again, obviously one can't put every single tiny issue into the guidelines
<LjL> but an outline, and eventually a statement that "the operators use their best judgement to determine etc etc", might be of use
<jdong> (1) discourage providing alternate, unofficial instructions for a task where there is an officially supported method in the repositories, (2) Discourage instructing users to compile or install packages outside the repositories without a clear disclaimer that it may cause undesired consequences .....
<jdong> and that's way too much policy-talk for one night :D
 * nalioth sends jdong off to hunt for kittens
<LjL> jdong: is that from the forums guidelines or something, or you just made it up?
<jdong> LjL: just made it up on the spot :)
<LjL> i don't know really. i've never been to keen on making the guidelines bloated - i can reassure PriceChild on that - and it can be difficult to draw a line between what should be in the guidelines and what should be left out
<nalioth> there is no way at all to put everything that a troll would bring up into the guidelines
<jdong> LjL: It's not like it honestly matters -- those who are going to violate the policies probably aren't going to read them in the first place
<LjL> indeed
<jdong> LjL: at some point you just have to say "because we said so" and call it done :)
<LjL> jdong, but once they come here, they *do* complain that the guidelines "don't say it"
<LjL> jdong, but the guidelines don't say anywhere that we can "say so" on technical matters. sure, we're operators so we can ban and "say so", but
<LjL> it's not even the first time i bring this up, it was discussed last time the guidelines were revised, i think
<LjL> sure, as nalioth says, there's 1000 things that a troll can do and that we cannot guess in advance
<LjL> but "not giving bad advice" is something i'm quite concerned on in particular
<nalioth> we ban and if the bannee doesn't like it, they can go before the UTB
<LjL> nalioth: but you see, in this case there was nothing to go to the UTB for. all he did *on #ubuntu* was: 1) state that "rm -rf <file>" is a good way to "always" delete a file  2) state that /usr is a place for "general applications"
<LjL> that's bad advice, sure, but it's little things. hardly the point,
<jdong> LjL: then add a provision that the IRC council discourages providing unsafe or unsupported procedures to resolve problems and may ask repeat offenders to cease providing advice
<LjL> the point is more like: he came here and questions my/our authority to decide that *certain things* (no matter what they are *specifically*, so nothing to bring to the UTB) are unsupported
<LjL> jdong: that's mostly what i'm thinking about.
<LjL> though, "irc council"... just the damn operators.
<LjL> i can hardly remember an instance when i disagreed with an operator on what was good advice
<LjL> (or, i might have, but then either me or the other operator came to know better. that's the whole deal: being *prepared* to be told better. instead, some people just insist that they can *keep giving any kind of advice they like*)
<jdong> LjL: yeah, extending that judgement right to all IRC operators is a good call
<mneptok> LjL: that's why i offered to play The Bad Guy.
<mneptok> LjL: i don't think it's a stretch to say "until the Ubuntu Technical Board can review the issue and state an official policy, we'll follow the recommendations of Canonical's support staff."
<LjL> mneptok: it should work. they come in, ask "why can't i do that?" - "because it's bad advice" - "says who?" - "mneptok" - "who the hell is mneptok?" - "/me shows FriendlyTroll a photo of mneptok"
<mneptok> which means i get universally despised, which is par for the course.
<mneptok> and i think the correct response to "who says so?" is "Canonical senior support staff, until the TechBoard reviews the issue."
<mneptok> then show them my picture so the conversation ends ;)
<Pici>  Still talking about Gerro?
<LjL> mneptok: well but you know most of the time we *don't* follow your recommendations simply because there haven't been any, so the "best judgment" thing comes up again. *after* the troll comes in here, we may ask you and you give your statement - but that's a [slightly] different thing
<LjL> Pici, kind of, but it's in general. not the first time this issue comes up
 * Pici reads scrollback
<mneptok> LjL: *nod*
<mneptok> LjL: let's be clear, i *don't want* to be any kisd of authority voice on technical matters. at the end of the day, it's not my place in the Ubuntu multiverse. but i'm happy to do my part to get annoying people to STFU and play by the rules. :)
<mneptok> *kind
<LjL> mneptok: indeed one of our issues is that we draw arguments with trolls in here that are *way* too long. while we were arguing, a few people were spamming #ubuntu - pici fixed that mostly, but we were all here arguing with the troll.
<LjL> i'm the first to blame since i hardly ever keep my mouth shut after just saying "end of discussion, bye"
<mneptok> yeah, the time suck is unacceptable
<LjL> but if we need to have "appeals", which we do, we should find a way to force ourselves, me included, to make them reasonably short
<LjL> and avoid starting to argue in circles with trolls
<LjL> "caught ya" statements in the guidelines may help imho
<Pici> I think 1) An IRC Council meeting is needed 2) A careful look and possible rewrite of some of the IRC Guidelines 3) There is no 3
<LjL> (now, mind, "arguing with trolls" is different from actually discussing issues, like we're doing now - even though it spawned from arguing with a troll)
<LjL> Pici, 1) is needed, and i half-heartely advocate 2)... but anyway you know, meetings are always fast, they have to be, and things can't really be discussed in much detail
<LjL> so i really don't mind discussing them a little beforehand
<ubotu> heguru called the ops in #ubuntu (SS[5uper5pam])
<LjL> and then once in a while we get the poets
<nalioth> ya'll can pull that ( mschi serial spammer )
<LjL> nalioth: pull them ban as it's a K-ban?
<LjL> s/them/the/
<nalioth> LjL: yep
<superm1> i forget, how do you teach ubotu something new?
<nalioth> superm1: ubotu: foo is bar
<superm1> nalioth, ah thanks
<ubotu> In ubotu, superm1 said: mythtv-mysql is Having issues with 'access denied for user 'mythtv'@'localhost' (using password: YES), please see: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=3691155&postcount=4
<Madpilot> !mythtv
<ubotu> MythTV is a TV framework for Linux - Instructions for using with Ubuntu at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MythTV
<superm1> this one comes up often enough that i'd like to have its own quickie :)
<Madpilot> superm1, add a link - or content - to the MythTV wiki page ^^^
<Madpilot> fair enough. one sec
<Madpilot> ubot3, mythtv-mysql is <reply>Having issues with 'access denied for user 'mythtv'@'localhost' (using password: YES), please see: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=3691155&postcount=4
<ubot3> In #ubuntu-ops, Madpilot said: ubot3, mythtv-mysql is <reply>Having issues with 'access denied for user 'mythtv'@'localhost' (using password: YES), please see: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=3691155&postcount=4
<Madpilot> %whoami
<ubotu> Madpilot
<Madpilot> stupid bots
<Madpilot> ubotu, mythtv-mysql is <reply>Having issues with 'access denied for user 'mythtv'@'localhost' (using password: YES), please see: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=3691155&postcount=4
<ubotu> I'll remember that, Madpilot
<Madpilot> there
<Madpilot> !mythtv-mysql
<ubotu> Having issues with 'access denied for user 'mythtv'@'localhost' (using password: YES), please see: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=3691155&postcount=4
<Madpilot> superm1, ^^
<superm1> sweet thanks 
<LjL> nalioth, mneptok, jdong, whoever followed the garro thing, i've translated parts of the guidelines for #ubuntu-it at nalioth: http://www.novarata.net/wiki/index.php?title=Italian_Guidelines - i think they're an interesting starting point for debate (read the introduction as for why) - and also, they're not quite as bad as i make them look, hey, it's a "starting point for debate" ;)
<LjL> not debate *now* though for what i'm concerned, as i'm way too tired :P
<ubotu> bruenig called the ops in #ubuntu ()
<nalioth> so he did
<tonyyarusso> How do I specify scripts to autorun in irssi again?  Is it a config thing, or just putting them in autorun/ ?
<nalioth> tonyyarusso: put 'em in ~/.irssi/scripts/autorun  (symlinks work, too)
<tonyyarusso> nalioth: ok
<nalioth> tonyyarusso: i have some questions
<tonyyarusso> nalioth: shoot
<nalioth> why is it that when i add your feisty pps repo, kompozer-dev is there, but not kompozer ?
<tonyyarusso> nalioth: errrr, good question
 * tonyyarusso looks
<tonyyarusso> nalioth: btw, it's actually in feisty-backports now, which would be the better choice
<nalioth> backports smackports
<tonyyarusso> oh!
<nalioth> if i'm gonna do that, i might as well install gutsy
<tonyyarusso> nalioth: Because PPA doesn't support PPC.
<tonyyarusso> but -dev is arch:all
<nalioth> tonyyarusso: ok, then how is kompozer-dev available to me?
<tonyyarusso> ^^
<nalioth> ah
<nalioth> tonyyarusso: i think you can do better than that
<nalioth> you have 0 excuse not to support the 3 major arches
<tonyyarusso> nalioth: well, I'd have to set up my own repo for that.  It's not possible in the PPA system.
<nalioth> ok, and? 
<tonyyarusso> That's part of why backports is better, b/c they support the various Ubuntu ports.
 * nalioth doesn't like being the red-headed-stepchild cuz he uses ppc
<tonyyarusso> I know - I complained, but I don't control xen development.
<tonyyarusso> (which is what they use)
<ubotu> d4rkmonkey called the ops in #ubuntu ()
<nalioth> tonyyarusso: you seem to have missed one
<tonyyarusso> nalioth: arooo?
<nalioth>   /lastlog the kline
<tonyyarusso> I don't understand
<nalioth> there were two trolls on the same IP
<nalioth> you removed the active one
<nalioth> the kline got both of them
<no0tic> only a thing about what LjL said about italian guidelines: the first link are the _new_ ones after proposals, the second is only a draft
<tonyyarusso> nalioth: indeed - although my logs don't have any entries for Mickael speaking
<nalioth> and clones.pl doens't work with the massive numbers in #ubuntu   :(
<ubotu> bruenig called the ops in #ubuntu ()
<Madpilot> it's been a good night for paste-spam, hasn't it?
<tonyyarusso> mmhmm
<nalioth> Madpilot: talking to ghosts?
<Madpilot> I just removed ubot3 from #ubuntu
<Madpilot> confusing the tab-complete, it was
<ompaul> mneptok, ?
<ompaul> Hobbsee, happy morning
<Hobbsee> hiya ompaul 
<Tm_T> hi kids
<Tm_T> Myrtti <3
<Myrtti> hullo
 * Tm_T is sick tired of being sick
<Tm_T> s/sick/sicko/g ?
<Tm_K> :-P
<Myrtti> pft
<Tm_K> pft?
<Myrtti> /me fiddles around with her 770
<Tm_K> just dont fiddle about me
<Myrtti> this and my mobile phone are about the only ways to use inerhweb at where I'm sleeping
<Tm_K> heh
<Tm_K> sladen <3
<Myrtti> and who just showed up ;-)
<Myrtti> sladen: in the future you may use my 770and the gprs of it freely ;-)
<Myrtti> i've got package plan nowadays \o/
<Tm_K> :)
<Myrtti> 315481kb
<Tm_K> I just hope I get that OpenMoko thing one day
<Tm_K> sorta hate this iPaq of being so crippled
<Tm_K> powerful hardware, sucky OS
<Myrtti> thats the amount of data i've transferred over 3g in a week
<Tm_K> heh
<Tm_K> hey, I did transfer several gigs over gprs at one point
<Myrtti> including java, updates, fresh new thunderbird etc
<Tm_K> I need new web browser for my WM5
<Myrtti> It's my internet connection at my mums where I keep my office these days
<Tm_K> :)
<Myrtti> but anyways, im happy
<Tm_K> I have lived with only gprs several times
<Tm_K> gprs is ok, bit laggy with ssh but ok
<Myrtti> [09:39] ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ Irssi: Starting query in freenode with jllj
<Myrtti> [09:39] <jllj> hi you are famous.  i tried to read about you on wikipedia but it was in finnish.
<Myrtti> hahaha
<Tm_K> =)
<Tm_K> I'm somewhat famous too I've heard
<Myrtti> theyre teasing me at -offtopic
<Myrtti> hmph
<Tm_K> maybe I should show them something?
<Myrtti> nÃ¤Ã¤h
<Tm_K> my face?
<Tm_K> hi ompaul
<ompaul> hi Tm_K thought you were on a holiday of sorts
<Tm_K> I am
<ompaul> Tm_K, ;-) 
<Tm_K> ompaul: you know, there's no better way spending your time than chatting with friends :))
<ompaul> Tm_K, true
<ompaul> well we could write for our friends and others, code, blogs, stuff 
<Tm_K> yup
<Tm_K> or, have time with family if you have one near you :)
<ompaul> all more fun
<ompaul> I tend to blur the lines between RL and online - I meet many of the people I know online locally
<ompaul> in fact we have our lug agm today
<Hobbsee> Tm_K: heh.  that's what i think :)
<Hobbsee> which makes it hard for me to take a holiday.
<Tm_K> :)
<Tm_K> ã
 * Tm_K is listening "Ylen klassinen"
<ompaul> Tm_K, not in my knowledge base for want of a phrase
 * ompaul wonders if some loon made a TM of that phrase
 * ompaul goes to search the interweb
<Tm_K> :p
<Tm_K> ompaul: what I meant by saying that, I'm relaxing with classical music
<ompaul> Tm_K, ahh, okay, don't know that one still, mozart or motorhead only the pop ones ;-)
 * ompaul goes to install a little audio fun into his head
<Tm_K> heh, "Ylen Klassinen" is radio station sending only classical music
<ompaul> ahh ha
<Tm_K> YLE is our BBC
<ompaul> gotcha, right now the boomtown rats - banana republic - a reference to my country in the 80s it has changed a little but some of the sentiments still stand ;-)
<Hobbsee> anyone recognise [21:31] [Whois] Blake__ is n=Blake@82-45-232-172.cable.ubr03.hari.blueyonder.co.uk (U-Blake-PC\Blake) ?
<brain> can someone unban me plz?
<elkbuntu> brain, why were you banned?
<brain> for mentioning waffles
<brain> i was told it was 24 hr
<brain> its been 36
<brain> madpilot banned me
<ubotu> In #ubuntu-motu, persia said: ubotu: packaging is The packaging guide is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
<brain> CAN SOMEONE PLEASE UNBAN ME
<brain> or at least reccomend a mulitple monitor solution to ubuntu 7.10 amd64
<elkbuntu> brain, im investigating. shouting will only make us think you're not suitible to go back
<elkbuntu> brain, and besides, my logs show that you were not banned for mentioning waffles. you were banned for asking silly questions such as 'how do i hack the DOD in ubuntu?'
<Gary> and your convo in -offtopic looks really close to the edge...
<elkbuntu> changing your nick doesnt help you any
<hyaBUSA> it was a joke man
<hyaBUSA> i was loosening the tension 
<hyaBUSA> and i diddnt know u were investigating sorry
<hyaBUSA> i did it in another channel
<hyaBUSA> i'm still messin with my settings of old profile
<elkbuntu> hyaBUSA, try to avoid repeating yourself as often as you do. it makes people switch off to you and not help you. also, asking how to hack things is stupid and will usually attract a ban. lastly, keep on one topic, or people wont know what you want and wont bother trying to figure you out.
<hyaBUSA> sorry man im new to this irc community
<elkbuntu> one other thing. you were only banned 28 hours ago. not 36. lying is frowned on. however you're back in on *probation*. if you behave in #ubuntu as you are behaving in #ubuntu-offtopic, you will be removed again for a longer time.
<hyaBUSA> thanks elk
<elkbuntu> theres no need for you to be in this channel any longer
<hyaBUSA> k
<ubotu> s|k called the ops in #xubuntu ()
<ubotu> astro76 called the ops in #ubuntu ()
<Tm_K> )(
<sladen> Myrtti: wooo, free GPRS
<Myrtti> "free"
<Myrtti> 15e per month
<Myrtti> 512kbit/s
<jussi01> Myrtti: you around? 
<Myrtti> yeah
<mjr> oh yeah, that reminded me I have to change my current per-year tie-in gprs deal to a per-month
<jussi01> Myrtti: sorry to bother you, I just have a quick favour to ask if you would...
<Myrtti> okey
<jussi01> Myrtti: I need some information - it can be in finish, but I can find it. I need to have some instuctions for searching on my digibox for the tv channels... I cant seem to find it on dna's website.. :(
<jussi01> s/can/cant
<jussi01> If you have time, would you mind having a quick look?
<Myrtti> computer dvb card?
<jussi01> Myrtti: nope, normal digibox..
<Myrtti> oh
<jussi01> I just need to know which frequencys to search etc
<Myrtti> oh
<Myrtti> jussi01: where are you at?
<jussi01> Myrtti: Oulu
<Myrtti> http://www.oulunpuhelin.fi/file.php?220
<jussi01> Myrtti: you rock!! Thanks a million!
<ubotu> bur[n]er called the ops in #ubuntu ()
<ubotu> In #ubuntu, bruenig said: !no, aptitude is aptitude is another terminal-based front-end to APT. Like apt-get, it can install/remove packages and their dependencies. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AptitudeSurvivalGuide
<LjL> !aptitude
<ubotu> aptitude is another terminal-based front-end to APT, like apt-get. However, aptitude can remember the dependencies installed with a package and remove them if you uninstall. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AptitudeSurvivalGuide
<LjL> !no aptitude is another terminal-based front-end to APT. Like other APT front-ends, it can install/remove packages and their dependencies (on Dapper and earlier, however, only aptitude keeps track of unused dependencies). See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AptitudeSurvivalGuide
<ubotu> I'll remember that LjL
<Pici> I miss the poetry.
<MenZa> Pici, how do you feel about a !herald for it?
<MenZa> (!m$)
<Pici> perhaps..
<Pici> cello_rasp: How can we help you today?
<PriceChild> He's banned... I don't know why and am busy sorry.
<cello_rasp> I was hoping you could tell me why I am banned from #ubuntu
<Pici> cello_rasp: let me take a look at the logs, hold on.
<jrib> cello_rasp: seems like you persisted with offtopic comments in #ubuntu after being warned
<PriceChild> ahhh now i see the ban
<cello_rasp> I was warned?
<PriceChild> uu and it was me
<PriceChild> cello_rasp, yes you were warned with a /remove
<PriceChild> however you continued with your cocky comebacks and so earned a ban
<cello_rasp> I see. When was this  according to the log
<PriceChild> And the !offtopic factoid had been called a couple of times.
<PriceChild> 	Oct 26 2007 22:40:04
<PriceChild> (UTC)
<PriceChild> cello_rasp, what's #ubuntu for?
<PriceChild> *notices you called someone a sophisticated pervert also*
<cello_rasp> Sorry but I didn't translate any of that as a warning
<PriceChild> You were removed with t he message "/msg ubotu offtopic".... and didn't take that as a warning?1
<PriceChild> I can slightly understand you missing the !offtopic's and responses from ubotu in channel a couple of times....
<PriceChild> but you were removed before the final remove/ban
<cello_rasp> I must have missed that - there was a lot going on. Sorry.
<LjL> you haven't missed being kicked
<PriceChild> I don't believe you.
<PriceChild> You didn't have an autorejoin... you had to manually /join.
<LjL> your following statement was clearly relating to the kick
<PriceChild> cello_rasp, the ban will not be lifted at this time. I suggest you "/msg ubotu guidelines" and read all it has to say.
<LjL> i'll add /msg ubotu etiquette
<PriceChild> LjL, but etiquette links to guidelines?
<cello_rasp> From that I gather that bans are permanent unless specifically removed
<LjL> it does, among other things, but not vice versa
<PriceChild> cello_rasp, most are yes.
<PriceChild> cello_rasp, I haven't seen a change in attitude from you and so don't believe it in anyone's best interest to lift the ban at this time.
<cello_rasp> nah, it's easier just to grab a different nick and ip. see ya
<PriceChild> Good luck.
<LjL> cello_rasp: with that statement, please consider your ban permanent
<PriceChild> lets just ban bethere.co.uk.... oh wait :P
<TheSheep> *.uk :P
<LjL> PriceChild: nah, you wouldn't get banned
<jdong> PriceChild: that'd get rid of moniker42 too ;-)
<PriceChild> LjL, it would
<LjL> PriceChild: you'd only get banned if your IP were banned
<PriceChild> LjL, ohhhh yeah sorry :)
<Pici> Or if you couldnt auth
<PriceChild> be host a dynamic and static service... the static one at no extra charge to the adsl2+ customers... judging by hostmask I'm reasonably sure he's on dynamic :/
<LjL> then he'll feel proud that he's fooled the ops, oh well.
<PriceChild> surprisingly i never tested it to see how often leases can change
<Pici> Why is it when you !foo | user, they dont read it and try to !foo | user themselves?
<Pici> I will never understand that.
<Gary> that cello fellow seemed nice
<TheSheep> users never read any text that looks automatically generated -- that's one of the laws of computer ui
<LjL> Pici: because the same people who tell others to RTFM don't even dream to read the bot's fine manual - or to activate their neurons
<LjL> Gary: he lied through his teeth when he said he didn't notice being kicked.
<Gary> LjL, they always do
<PriceChild> cello seems memorable to me
<PriceChild> Gary, i wouldn't say t hat
<PriceChild> forums person perhaps..
<PriceChild> LjL, "tod" is slang for something....
<PriceChild> and judging by the preceeding part of his nickname I think he thinks he knows what he's doing.
 * Pici watches HairyHobo
<PriceChild> Right i'm off for the evening.
<LjL> what the - i have 75 seconds lag
<PriceChild> commented cello's ban
<PriceChild> * Pancakes (n=Pancakes@about/cooking/breakfast/Pancakes)
<PriceChild> :)
<LjL> i just saw like 50 lines come in at a time in #ubuntu :)
<LjL> haha
<PriceChild> LjL, yeah its REALLY sped up just now
<LjL> maybe but my connection was also on vacation for sure
<PriceChild> * wraund (n=sacater@ubuntu/member/colchester-lug.sacater) has joined #ubuntu
<PriceChild> sneaky cloak....
<PriceChild> I wonder who he knows ;)
 * Gary giggles
<PriceChild> Gary, :)
<LjL> PriceChild: i get neither the "tod" nor what you mean with the preceeding part of his nickname anyway
<LjL> erm now i shouldn't be lagged anymore though, it's just going at like 3 messages per second
<Gary> it's so hard to keep up with
<PriceChild> Gary, stay there a while and you'll get used to it
<PriceChild> I call troll on twoshadetod
<PriceChild> hmm urbandictionary doesn't have the meaning of tod i was thinking
<LjL> i think maybe both hairyhobo and darkdrake want a ban
<Pici> I agree.
<AmericaIsDumb> Wow, this is a large channel.
<LjL> AmericaIsDumb: 1) please change your nickname, it's offensive, 2) please don't nickspam, #ubuntu is busy enough, 3) we really don't care about what happens in *other* channels, and even if we do, please tell us in *here*, it's offtopic in #ubuntu
<LjL> !etiquette
<ubotu> Unsure how you should behave on this channel? See !AskTheBot, !CoC, !Guidelines, !Offtopic, !Language, !Attitude, !Repeat, !Enter, !Paste, !NickSpam - and most importantly, use common sense :-)
<LjL> PCPolice, i strongly suggest that you read all the above factoids carefully (in PMs with the bot)
<PriceChild> Why is he here? :/
<PriceChild> *sees no banforward*
<LjL> PriceChild: i invited.
<PriceChild> k
<PriceChild> *notices the +io*
<PriceChild> *+-o
<LjL> * / sqr :P
<PCPolice> Okay, I will try to conform to the politically correct rules.
<LjL> thank you.
<LjL> PCPolice: i just wanted to make sure you understood what the rules were, feel free to wander off this channel now
<PriceChild> I'm off out.
<Gary> PCPolice, it's not so much being all PC and all, but trying to keep a channel of 1300 plus working effectively
<LjL> PCPolice, mine above was an invitation to leave, as we'd like to keep this channel for extemporanous use
<ubotu> In #ubuntu-motu, pwnguin said: ubotu: bitesize is https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=bitesize
<ubotu> In #ubuntu-motu, nxvl said: ubotu: bitesize is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=bitesize
<ubotu> In #ubuntu-motu, pwnguin said: ubotu: bitesize is Bugs tagged trivially easy to fix: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=bitesize
<Pici> !bitesize is <reply> Bugs tagged trivially easy to fix can be found here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=bitesize
<ubotu> I'll remember that, Pici
<Pici> !register
<ubotu> Information about registering your Freenode nick is at http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#contents-userregistration
<jdong> no, register is a crappy british IT news site that seems to like publishing flamebait about Ubuntu and then making it seem funny by punning every other word and then punning the puns.
<jdong> :)
<LjL> jdong: surely, launchpad is a "user forum", and "A number of users have complained this *week* about the OS (7.04/7.10)" doesn't even remotely make one suspect there's just a foolish craze, given that 7.04 has been out for months
<jdong> lol
<jdong> now if we can get this LP-forum integration thing to work....
<LjL> jdong: what i think i'm reading in the very high noise to content ratio, however, is that perhaps ubuntu doesn't even try to avoid using the disk when the disk is powered off and disk usage may be avoided or postponed, while other systems may do
<LjL> i don't really know if this is true - again, very high noise ratio - but this would be a real argument against ubuntu, rather than most of what i read, which sounds like utter nonsense
<jdong> LjL: that's only partially true though; it's a big deal that noatime/relatime isn't set because laptop-mode cannot defer atime updating
<jdong> LjL: IMO it *is* a Ubuntu problem that we do hdparm -B 1 on laptop-mode -- NO other distro defaults this way
<jdong> and 90% of drives take -B 1 to mean suicidally enforce idle time
<jdong> it concerns me that developers are insisting it is not their fault and not changing/disabling the hdparm command
<LjL> maybe that, but lots of people seems to be complaining even though they've *not* set laptop mode
<jdong> LjL: if they have not set laptop-mode, then the system is using whatever defaults the BIOS or last thing that touched the setting have set
<jdong> LjL: I'm pretty sure Windows explicitly sets a APM value regardless of system default
<jdong> which might be where we are going wrong
<LjL> jdong: ok but i've read people complaining not so much that the drive is turned off, but rather that it *turns on again immediately* after being turned off
<LjL> which rather suggests that perhaps the system should sometimes say "oh wait, the drive is off, so i'll leave it alone and defer writing"
<jdong> LjL: it would be nice to do a blocktrack as to why the drive is turning back on -- read or write
<jdong> LjL: on my system I've set pdflush to 15 seconds, but it doesn't help with read requests waking the drive up
<jdong> but noatime should be enabled by default
<jdong> or relatime
<LjL> jdong: if one goes according to http://kerneltrap.org/node/14148 , then one would say it definitely should
<jdong> LjL: gutsy kernel does relatime already... I use it here to great benefit
<jdong> I don't understand why Ubuntu is so averse to changing filesystem defaults.
<LjL> oh torvalds always has such pearls... starts saying that fsync() is broken in ext3, and end ups saying he "detests logging filesystems"
<nalioth> overlords kittens
<jdong> well, it is broken on all journaling filesystems under Linux.
<LjL> jdong: you mean it does but not by default?
<jdong> LjL: right, you can mount with relatime and it will only update atime on disk with next write or unmount
<jdong> LjL: basically as fast as noatime without the mutt-related side effects
<jdong> LjL: but I can't think of a single Linux journaled FS that doesn't treat fsync($file) as the same as sync($blockdev)
<jdong> so Linus actually has a point this time
<LjL> jdong: well is it an intrinsic problem with journalling?
<LjL> (and is it enough of a reason to "detest logging filesystems"?)
<jdong> LjL: in a way, yes, you cannot request one operation to be committed to disk without flushing all the transactions before it
<jdong> though it's probably not enough to detest logging fs'es per se.
<jdong> unless you happen to do work that fsync's a lot, then you basically lose all the advantages of a write cache
<jdong> LjL: I know a *lot* of FS performance nuts that put a LD_PRELOAD in the environment that zaps out fsync()
<LjL> jdong: but then that's almost *asking* for losing those benefits... if i tell my filesystem to sync every 10 seconds, i think it's because i *mean* it, no? if i have some specialized data that really really benefit from being written ASAP, i suppose i'd use a separate partition/drive for them, as they'd be special-purpose stuff
<LjL> that vim does fsync(), uhm... i think i'd tend to call that vim's fault
<ompaul> jdong, what is broken?
<jdong> ompaul: fsync() on journaled filesystems
<jdong> ompaul: in that it almost always causes everything in the write cache to be flushed
<jdong> LjL: vim's my major annoyance
<jdong> LjL: especially when I pdflush to 30 seconds, sometimes a vim :wq is enough to cause a 10-second sync hang
<jdong> LjL: it's not optimal to disable fsync at the system level, but sometimes I'm greedy for performance :)
<ompaul> jdong, funny that given that: The fsync() function can be used by an application to indicate that all data for the open file description named by fildes is to be transferred to the storage device associated with the file described by fildes in an implementation-dependent manner. source: http://www.opengroup.org/pubs/online/7908799/xsh/fsync.html  - so I would say expected behaviour, perhaps a bad call 
<jdong> ompaul: well, it's not expected behavior... when I call fsync on a 1K textfile, I expect that to be synced to the disk. I don't expect the underlying FS to sync 300MB of unrelated data from the write cache
<LjL> jdong: what about reldiratime by the way? does it exist, does relatime cover that?
<jdong> in most of the Linux journaled FS'es other than JFS/XFS, fsync is implemented by calling sync on the disk
<jdong> LjL: good question, I don't know :)
<LjL> jdong: how do those two implement it?
<jdong> LjL: they are not ordered journals
<jdong> LjL: which have certain data corruption risks associated with it
<LjL> jdong: if you don't put ext3 in ordered more, does it still just call sync()?
<jdong> LjL: I'm unsure
<mjr> I don't see how that'd make a difference; it's not about ordering the journal, but data writes with the metadata journal
<ompaul> jdong, everything that is in fildes needs to be written, so something else is wrong, like there should be no command to flush the rest - there is there - it has "too much power" so to speak - I have been looking for docs to explain it better than I can but my read of it is that "fildes" is to be written - no excuses and the file system just obeys the call, it is like telling the fs that the machine is being shutdown - the queue says "Oi clear
<ompaul>  me first first"
<ompaul> s/there is there/ There is a command to do that/]
<jdong> ompaul: well, sync() can be used to sync everything, but fsync() should only sync data related to filedes
<jdong> ompaul: the problem is that ordered journaling FS'es cannot separate the data belonging to one file from another, so to do a fsync it must sync the entire device
<ompaul> jdong, and where do you think all the other files "are"
<ompaul> jdong, yes
<ompaul> the problem is that this call is not the one that should be used, but it is
<ompaul> jdong, bug in protocol more than program
<ompaul> jdong, yet again I come back from the ilug agm and they have given me a post what can I say - -- shall I ever escape? ;-)
<jdong> ompaul: hehe
<ompaul> jdong, the thing is we often see protocols that are broken, in this case to me it looks like the protocol is broken, it needs to cache the data with more meta data, but it does not
<ompaul> jdong, much more scary is this: http://www.ripe.net/news/community-statement.html
<LjL> jdong: i'm still reading http://kerneltrap.org/node/14148 , it seems to be implying though that ubuntu *is* mounting noatime by default...?
<ompaul> jdong, the end of the interweb
<ompaul> LjL, that appears only to be the case for CDs as it should be
<ompaul> LjL, check /etc/fstab
<LjL> ompaul: well they talk about it like something that only ubuntu had the "braveness" to do and other distributions are scared of...
<ompaul> LjL, atime is there
<LjL> ompaul, my own /etc/fstab doesn't mean very much i suspect, as it's from dapper :)
<ompaul> LjL, this is feisty
<LjL> ompaul: "atime is there" you mean that nothing is there (since atime would be silently there by default)? or, instead, you mean that *no*atime is default, but then that's overridden by /etc/fstab?
<Tm_T> ompaul: you needed me for something?
<ompaul> Tm_T, na, that was me just throwing away comments last time I was online - however many hours ago that was
<Tm_T> I see
<Tm_T> heh, roger that
<ompaul> Tm_T, unless you got some other insight to that site 
<Tm_T> not atm
#ubuntu-ops 2007-11-04
<jrib> ljl: goatsextroll is PCPolice, Americaisdumb...
<LjL> jrib: thanks
<LjL> wasn't that comcast?
<LjL> guess he was last time
<Sorry> :(
<Sorry> My nickname was a reference to a meme popular in the computer programming culture.
<Sorry> Why did LjL so quickly ban me?
<Sorry> LjL: Answer.
<jdong> Sorry: because it was quite inappropriate?
<LjL> Sorry: no.
<jdong> and we know what reference you were making.
<Sorry> Okay.
<LjL> actually, mr sorry
<Sorry> :\
<jdong> whee
<LjL> !forget qvm86
<ubotu> I'll forget that, LjL
<LjL> !kqemu =~ s/ - see also !qvm86//
<ubotu> I'll remember that LjL
<LjL> !virtualizers =~ s/or !qvm86//
<ubotu> I'll remember that LjL
<LjL> qvm86 has been deprecated by its author
<nixternal> rob nalioth #kde is under a ctcp attack
<Pici> !staff | ^
<ubotu> ^: Hey nalioth, jenda, rob, SportChick, seanw, BearPerson or ompaul! I could use a bit of your time :)
<nixternal> ubuntuser
<nixternal> ubuntuser [i=ubuntu@gateway/tor/x-d3c3eced43807f12] requested CTCP PING from #kde: :+++ATH0
<Pici> nixternal: if its still happening, you could find a staff member in #freenode probably/.
<nixternal> we kicked him
<Pici> ah
<jdong> nixternal: do people honestly think +++ATH0 work nowadays? XD
<nixternal> who knows...and go figure the name as well, and tor....
 * LjL has quit IRC (Ping timeout)
<jdong> if so, please upgrade your modem, it's 20 years old :)
<nixternal> hahahaha
<nixternal> I didn't even catch that
<LjL> jdong: hey, my 33.6k modem is the only thing that can stay connected to my VoIP line for more than 2 minutes!
<jdong> LjL: I bet it has an escape guard though
<LjL> jdong: uhm, no, it disconnects on +++ATH.
<jdong> LjL: seriously?? what model is it?
<LjL> how would i know, it's buried in my server's dirty PCI slots since at least 5 years :P
<jdong> definitely all the V.90 modems wait 3 seconds after +++ before escaping
<jdong> V.34.... I'd expect the more "recent" ones to do the same
<LjL> jdong, 1997
<jdong> LjL: hmm maybe that was before they dial-guarded them
<LjL> oh wait, did i just say "PCI slot"? i was lying. ISA slot.
<Pici> EISA
<LjL> whatever, not PCI anyway since it's not listed in lspci
<jdong> wow
<jdong> ok that's old :)
<jdong> see above comment about upgrading :D
<LjL> i don't think so
<Pici> lsisa?
<LjL> no, there's no lsisa :)
<jdong> lol, lsisa :D
<LjL> jdong: there's more serious stuff than a modem with a slight security problem in that server, anyway
<LjL> ljlhead:/home/ljl# uname -r
<LjL> 2.4.27-2-k6
<jdong> hehehe
<LjL> you know, i started rolling my own kernel on there because i had a couple of stuck bits in my RAM... badram was useful :)
<LjL> xike in #ubuntu is going to try to edit the APT database manually because he's tried to roll his own kernel, and installing the package he created somehow failed, so now APT insists that the package must be reinstalled prior to removal, but he doesn't have the package anymore
<Madpilot> that's a novel way to break his Ubuntu
<LjL> yeah, but i'd rather give him a solution and avoid him editing the status file
<LjL> dpkg --force-something?
<nalioth> force breaks things
<LjL> so does editing the status file
<crdlb> isn't there a .old file?
<LjL> crdlb: where? what?
<crdlb> /var/lib/dpkg/status-old
<jrib> wow, no victims
<jrib> oh I missed the first one...
<Madpilot> LjL already banforwarded all the victims
<LjL> jrib: yeah. :)
<LjL> crdlb: hm is it safe to overwrite status like that? anyway, even though he says he's sure the package has no leftovers, i wouldn't be so sure myself
<LjL> isn't there just a reasonable way to make APT remove the package period?
<crdlb> I have no idea
<Madpilot> this is why I've never bothered learning to compile. seems like an awesome way to borrow trouble.
<crdlb> heh
<jrib> well you have to tell it to ignore the fact it needs to be reinstalled with some --force, there isn't really an alternative that I can see if you do not have the package
<LjL> i'll just go with a --force-remove-reinstreq
<LjL> [03:05:14] --> thegallier_ has joined this channel (n=root@71.167.167.182).
<LjL> [03:05:14] --> Fade2Blac has joined this channel (n=MostKnow@71.15.152.40).
<LjL> joined at the very same moment, both 71's, a root ident, hmm
<LjL> [03:10:20] --> internet18 has joined this channel (n=internet@202.150.76.242).
<LjL> [03:10:37] --> internet19 has joined this channel (n=internet@202.150.76.242).
<LjL> two different realnames
<LjL> that's also interesting
<nalioth> LjL: these kiddy scripts do all that easily
<LjL> nalioth: well the question is what should we expect, though. i can't just ban them
<LjL> [03:11:53] --> internet24 has joined this channel (n=internet@202.150.76.242).
<LjL> ah, no, there IS something weird here
<nalioth> which channel?
<LjL> #ubuntu
<nalioth> they're staging
<LjL> uh... but they hadn't done anything yet :P
<nalioth> there's lots of them
<LjL> nalioth: thegallier_ had actual clones?
<nalioth> yes, they both had 4
<nalioth> and clones.pl is useless in a channel as large as #ubuntu 
<LjL> nalioth: i don't know how clones.pl works, but "some" clone detector should be useful enough
<LjL> anyway, 207-172-70-51.c3-0.sbo-ubr2.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com also has three clones in #ubuntu
<LjL> might be legitimate though, don't go with the axe :P
<nalioth> LjL: it's a script for irssi
<nalioth> it just shunts all the names back to me when used in high capacity channels
<nalioth> no, i look first
 * LjL is once again tempted to deploy a certain bot... but perhaps some other day :)
<no0tic> :)
<ubotu> In #ubuntu-ni, fitoria said: ubotu: where is igorgue?
<ubotu> KurtKraut called the ops in #ubuntu ()
<ubotu> Bassetts called the ops in #ubuntu ()
<nalioth> klined
<ubotu> In #ubuntu-motu, somerville32 said: !forget hobbsee
<jdong> ha
<Hobbsee> heh
 * Jucato forgets...
<Jucato> um.. who?
<Madpilot> what?
<ubotu> Evanlec called the ops in #ubuntu (Super5pam)
<Madpilot> someone posting Nostradamus or some similar trash
<ubotu> Nrrd called the ops in #ubuntu-offtopic (Super5pam)
<Madpilot> same idiot, same strange crap
<tonyyarusso> Know what would be nifty?  If when a nick was supplied, ubotu also listed the IP/hostmask here, so if it showed up multiple times, staff would have it handy when K-Lines were appropriate.
<tonyyarusso> and with that, /me -> bed
<Madpilot> later tonyyarusso 
<ubotu> In ubotu, KevinO0oO said: This is an autoreply: I am currently not available. Please leave your message, and I will get back to you as soon as possible.
<crdlb> haha
<jdong> that's gold.
<mjr> incidentally, I find the kick games at least on -offtopic in extremely poor taste and damaging the atmosphere of the channel
<Gary> mjr, me too, it's terrible
 * Gary hides (it was his fault... points..)
<ompaul> mjr, see mailing list - he wanted it to happen, honest 
 * ompaul points at Gary 
<Gary> mjr, you must excuse my learned friends behaviour, it was most unbecoming a lady...
 * ompaul chases Gary around all of irc with candy floss stuck to a toffee apple
<Gary> see....
<mjr> well, I know here in Finland we are lax about the _important_ things such as, you know, using the wrong words at times, but around here ops usually aren't for infantile games on public channels
<ompaul> ahh you see you need to be from that little bit south of there
<ompaul> ;-)
<mjr> ...and then ompaul wantonly floods the channel
<mjr> fuckin' ay
<ompaul> mjr, killing an o4o conversation 
<ompaul> diversion
<ompaul> mjr, there are ways to move things along
<ompaul> I could fight and mute but talk of oneko is a diversion
<ompaul> as is cowsay
<mjr> ...luckily it doesn't scream "it's okay to flood here, guys!"
<mjr> oh wait, it does
<mjr> also, the (apparent) ubotu !opabuse trigger is a shining beacon of op arrogance, especially considering such conduct by them
<mjr> if you're arrogant, at least try to be worthy of it
 * ompaul has a memory - a simple one - no one is perfect
<Tm_T> ummm
<Tm_T> I agree with mjr 
<eth01> any op's active?
<ompaul> ask away
<eth01> apparently I'm banned from #ubuntu ... not sure as to why though, and yes, i have no idea ...
<ompaul> back in a moment
<ompaul> %btlogin
<ubotu> An error has occurred and has been logged.
 * ompaul looks
<ompaul> eth01, let me see if I can find out why
<eth01> ta
<ompaul> eth01, please bear with me
<ompaul> still looking for a record
<ompaul> 1logs
<ompaul> !logs
<ubotu> Channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ - Logs for LoCo channels are at http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/
<ompaul> eth01, so the reason you're nick was banned was that it had been used to troll and abuse the #ubuntu channel - I'll let you back in - please do /msg ubotu guidelines cheers
<eth01> k, thanks.
<ompaul> eth01, is there anything else we can help you with?
<eth01> nope :)
<eth01> thanks again.
 * Hobbsee pokes gnome-running people
<Tm_T> ummmm
<Tm_T> is "Exploit" good nick?
<Tm_T> no not something worth kicking but worth poking?
 * popey pokes Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> popey: any way i can set what happens when i middle click on a window title?
 * Hobbsee wants middle click to shade and double click to maximise the window.
<Hobbsee> it appears i cannot have this.
<Hobbsee> and i cant seem to see it in the registry, either.
<popey> i think you are correc
<popey> i dont think that's an action that can be set
<Hobbsee> *sigh*
<Hobbsee> basic functionality, people.
 * popey shrugs
 * Hobbsee notes that most of the gnome devs only work with 2 windows, being a terminal and firefox.
<popey> i have never felt the need to shade a window
<Hobbsee> it has it's uses.  sometimes.
<Tm_T> heh
<Tm_T> and talking about major desktop environment, you cant think only "your need" ;)
<Hobbsee> popey: the original question was about how to hide the damned drive entries from my desktop
<Hobbsee> because desktop icons are EVIL!
<Tm_T> agreed
<Hobbsee> maybe slightly more so than systray icons.
 * Hobbsee found the answer to that, when googling, then doing it thru the registry.
<Tm_T> haha
<Tm_T> Hobbsee: now you see why I wont touch GNOME
 * popey has a desktop littered with icons
<Hobbsee> Tm_T: i am in gnome at the moment, have been for most of the last couple of weeks
<Tm_T> Hobbsee: I notice =)
<Hobbsee> popey: i did, till i decided that i liked pretty pictures, and it annoys me that the icons dont all look the same size :)
<Hobbsee> i think it's the preview thing
 * Tm_T posing: http://www.tm-travolta.net/shots/current.png
 * Hobbsee uses her desktop to download crap - and then remove it all in one hit, after having done the activity that required the crap.
<Tm_T> I know, its ugly, I dont care, it works <3
<elkbuntu> Hobbsee, you can hide the drive trays though gconf-editor. not sure if there's a newer, easier way or not
<Tm_T> drive trays?!
<elkbuntu> err. drive icons
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: yeah.  that's what i found :)
<Tm_T> phew, you scared me
<elkbuntu> my brain merged drive icons and systray
<Tm_T> elkbuntu: scary brains you have then :))
<elkbuntu> you're implying i have multiple?
<Tm_T> I thought we all have one in head, others in big toes
<Tm_T> ah, right, you are hu-mans
<elkbuntu> yeah, mere humans
<Tm_T> sorry, my bad
 * Tm_T climbs back to his mountain and reminds himself of being good old hermit
<ompaul> !checkinstall
<ubotu> checkinstall is a wrapper to "make install", useful for installing programs you compiled. It will create a .deb package, which will be listed in the APT database and can be uninstalled like other packages. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CheckInstall - Read the warnings at the top and bottom of that web page, and DO NOT interrupt CheckInstall while it's running!
<nalioth> doesn't work half the time
<ubotu> astro76 called the ops in #ubuntu (maja__)
<Hobbsee> nalioth: it worked best when it segfaulted.
<nalioth> mine never hits that high of a mark.  it just reports failure and slinks off
<LjL> !ntfs
<ubotu> To view your Windows/Mac partitions see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AutomaticallyMountPartitions - For write access, see !NTFS-3g or !FUSE
<LjL> !ntfs-3g
<ubotu> ntfs-3g is a Linux driver which allows read/write access to NTFS partitions. Installation instructions at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MountingWindowsPartitions
<LjL> those two wiki pages are *so* much alike
<PriceChild> isn't that all automatic now? :)
<LjL> mounting windows partitions? i don't really know. it may be automatic but only for drives detected during installation... and maybe ntfs-3g is not automatic...
<LjL> at any rate, those documents are a mess, especially the former
<Hobbsee> it's automatic now
<Hobbsee> read adn write
<nalioth> i don't have ntfs read/write capablility  :(
<Hobbsee> you clearly dont have the latest and greatest crack
<nalioth> i clearly don't run a machine capable of hosting ntfs partitions  :D
<Hobbsee> or that ;P
 * nalioth is blight free and likes it that way
<ubotu> DShepherd called the ops in #ubuntu ()
<ubotu> astro76 called the ops in #ubuntu ()
<PriceChild> garrrrr
<seanw> I stepped in, hope that was okay LjL?
<nalioth> klined
<LjL> sure seanw
<seanw> nalioth, huh?
<PriceChild> There we go...
<PriceChild> gah and afetr all that...
<tomaw> hehe, 16 mode changes to defeat an 8 line spammer
<nalioth> seanw: serial spammer.  visited other channels. blah blah
<PriceChild> tomaw, I should have just stayed in bed.... *thwacks chanserv.py for unbanning both*
<tomaw> :)
<seanw> nalioth, ah kay thanks
<seanw> chanserv.py eh?
<nalioth> seanw: xchat version of auto_bleh.pl
<seanw> AH right.
<seanw> Does that script do unbans?
<PriceChild> yup
<PriceChild> but problem is.. it does a /whois first when you do /cs u to unban all bans on that user... I didn't realise that happenned on anything more than nicknames
<PriceChild> and then i made a typo
<seanw> I see.
<seanw> I will avoid it I think.
<LjL> Seveas: is your diskmounter script still actual? (i.e. does it work on feisty/gutsy?) i'm going to remake the filesystems wiki pages a little
<Seveas> it's not actual and may fail
<LjL> Seveas: what do you suggest, removing it, moving it to the bottom of the page with a disclaimer?
<Seveas> remove
<nalioth> no
<LjL> it's unfortunate though that we don't have even the faint shadow of drive management preferences in the current ubuntu versions :|
<nalioth> leave it and mark it usable for feisty and prior with the appropriate warnings for gutsy
<nalioth> or edgy and prior 
<nalioth> i _have_ used it on feisty and gutsy and it WorkedFormME(tm)
<LjL> besides in Kubuntu there is a totally *not* automated (but AtLeastIt'sThere(tm)) disk management kcontrol applet
<LjL> nothing at all like that in Ubuntu?
<LjL> ok who here thinks that the RootSudo page should *not* tell how to enable root, even with huge disclaimers and warnings attached?
<nalioth> +1
<PriceChild> LjL, yup
<nalioth> there should be an explantory about how Ubuntu is designed to use the sudo model
<LjL> well, i know that hobbsee at least thinks differently... and i'm also not entirely comfortable with hiding information from people. *informing* them of the dangers, yes
<LjL> (issue here is, there's been a double revert on RootSudo)
<PriceChild> oh dear...
<PriceChild> I seem to have lost my .gpg with all my passwords in...
<LjL> ...
<LjL> "lost"?
<PriceChild> yup
<PriceChild> well only half of them...
<LjL> "lost" like in "rm .TABwhooops"?
<PriceChild> mhmmm
<PriceChild> must have gone a few days ago but didn't notice
<ubotu> In #kubuntu, b_ said: ubotu said he is a bot,,,,,
<jpatrick> can't certain factoids be locked?
<Tm_T> like?
<Seveas> jpatrick, yes, by discussing with the other editors :)
<jpatrick> like the ubotu one
<LjL> jpatrick, he didn't invoke the "ubotu" factoid
<LjL> he invoked the "ubuntu said he" factoid, which doesn't exist
<LjL> s/ubuntu/ubotu/
<jpatrick> ah right
<LjL> anyway, it's fun to get to see these smart folks' interactions with the bot :)
<ompaul> !rootsudo
<ubotu> sudo is a command to run programs with superuser privileges ("root"). Look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RootSudo for all information.
<LjL> !kernel
<ubotu> kernel is the core of the Ubuntu Operating System (named 'Linux') - see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel.  You shouldn't have to compile one, but if you're convinced you do, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelCustomBuild.  Also, see !stages
<LjL> !no kernel is <reply> kernel is the core of the Ubuntu Operating System (named 'Linux') - see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel.  You shouldn't have to compile one, but if you're convinced you do, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel/Compile. Also, see !stages
<ubotu> I'll remember that LjL
<ompaul> !stages
<ubotu> The Ubuntu Kernel gets updated in stages.  If you have the updated kernel, but do not have the corresponding restricted modules, you may be leaving yourself with no X when you reboot.  If you have compiled binary versions of your video driver, eg from the nVidia site, you will need to recompile them for the new kernel.  This is normal, and not a bug.
<ompaul> LjL, idea, are you watching?
<LjL> watching what?
<ompaul> this
<ompaul> just a sec
<Pici> who?
<ompaul> !no kernel is <reply> A kernel is the core of the Ubuntu Operating System (named 'Linux') - see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel.  If you are convinced have to compile one do, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel/Compile. For more: /msg ubotu stages
<ubotu> I'll remember that ompaul
<ompaul> LjL, cos that means you don't get channels flooded with extra rubbish
<ompaul> they should see the stuff themselves
<Pici> They'll do it anyway.
<LjL> ompaul, yeah some factoids have that, but most factoids have quite a few !words in them, can't change them all into instructions to /msg
<Pici> Just like when you do !stages > sillyUser, they do !stages in channel.
<Pici> (my pet peeve)
<ompaul> well I do actually think that a percentage of stuff is troll based 
<LjL> i don't know
<LjL> i oscillate between considering people stupid and considering them trolls :)
<LjL> anyway i had changed that factoid again already
<LjL> !no kernel is <reply> The core of the Ubuntu Operating System is the Linux kernel: see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel - You shouldn't have to compile your own, but if you're convinced you do, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel/Compile - For more: /msg ubotu stages
<ubotu> I'll remember that LjL
<LjL> better to not have punctuation attached to URLs, some clients will misinterpret that
<ompaul> hmm 
<ompaul> should we go on a program of removing !foo
<Pici> !foo
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about foo - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<ompaul> actually 
<Pici> :(
<ompaul> what would be much more rockin would be
 * ompaul counts back from 10 to get it right
<LjL> ompaul: i don't know... i've actually been the one who added a lot of "!"s to factoids. i know it's not wikipedia, but it's useful to easily link to other factoids... although it does have the drawback of people using them in-channel
<ompaul> if we did not put see also's in the factiod but on the wiki page
<ompaul> and say see also's 
<LjL> ompaul, they're most often not appropriate on wiki pages
<Pici> she sell sea shells by the sea shore?
<ompaul> she sells C shells by the Bash shore?
<LjL> ompaul, what about we bug seveas once more instead, and make him patch the bot so that, if !foo is called after a factoid containing "!foo" was called, it's send in PM, with the usual notice "Please use the bot in PM"?
<LjL> like:
<LjL> !kompozer
<ubotu> kompozer is a WYSIWYG HTML editor for easily creating web pages, and the continuation of the dead Nvu project. It is available in !Universe on !Gutsy, while for older versions you can add the following to your /etc/apt/sources.list file: Â« deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/tonyyarusso/ubuntu {edgy,feisty} universe Â»  (pick your release and list it without brackets)
<ompaul> LjL, Launchpad is waiting for you, good idea
<LjL> then i type !Universe
<LjL> but i get a PM: [18:08:57] <Ubotwo> (In the future, please use a private message to investigate) The packages in Ubuntu are divided into several sections. More information at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories and http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/components - See also !EasySource
<ompaul> see 
<Pici> hmm..
<ompaul> which sucks cos it pushes me back to 
<ompaul> !easysource 
<ubotu> source-o-matic is a webpage where you can (re)generate your sources.list - http://www.ubuntu-nl.org/source-o-matic
<ompaul> in the channel
<ompaul> LjL, when I first started with ubotu
<LjL> ompaul, in that case you'd just be trolling... the bot just opened a query with you, and it's pretty clear from the "(message)" that you should go on typing in there
<ompaul> I did a lot of stuff like go though
<ompaul> it is clear until you are $silly
<TheSheep> you guys want to implement web browser over irc? :)
<Pici> Users arent going to notice it.
<Pici> They dont notice now when they get queried by ubotu and they wont notice in the future.
<TheSheep> why not put the links on the pages that are linked?
<ompaul> TheSheep, that was my idea there
<ompaul> LjL, what I was going to say about when I started 
<TheSheep> ah, sorry, dind't read it whole
<ompaul> was this
<Pici> We'll just get spammed with people trying to do !factoid !factoid !factoid Why isnt it working!?
<ompaul> I tried to make each factoid as short as possible - not adding length to them
<LjL> ompaul, Pici: then make the message even more explicit: <ubotu> NOTICE: Type "!" commands here, don't use them in the channel unless you need them to help someone else!  -  Please type !Universe again IN THIS WINDOW to get information about Universe
<ompaul> the object of the exercise was to say
<LjL> Pici, they do that anyway when the bot is lagged, which it often is. that's a kick, in my book.
<ompaul> that with kompozer I would have kompozer is a WYSIWYG HTML editor for creating web pages. More information at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories 
<ompaul> cos
<LjL> and Repositories would link to Kompozer instructions...? :P
<ompaul> all the other seugg we have there  !Universe on !Gutsy
<ompaul> are not relevant to the query
<ompaul> an alias for nvu would be good
<LjL> !nvu
<ubotu> kompozer is a WYSIWYG HTML editor for easily creating web pages, and the continuation of the dead Nvu project. It is available in !Universe on !Gutsy, while for older versions you can add the following to your /etc/apt/sources.list file: Â« deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/tonyyarusso/ubuntu {edgy,feisty} universe Â»  (pick your release and list it without brackets)
<ompaul> okay
<ompaul> so 
<ompaul> lets look at the info here
<ompaul> it breaks into:
<Pici> Why dont we just standardize the format of !package factoids
<LjL> ompaul: problem is, people think Kompozer is *not* in the repositories, since it wasn't originally. that's why there's "!Universe", a lengthy explanation, and the factoid exists to begin with
<LjL> it just wouldn't exist if it were a factoid like all others
<Pici> Just like I went through and standardized all the !releasename factoids.
<ompaul> !hoary
<ubotu> Ubuntu 5.04 (Hoary Hedgehog) was the second release of Ubuntu.  End Of Life: October 31, 2006. See !eol for more details.
<Pici> !edgy
<ubotu> Ubuntu 6.10 (Edgy Eft) is the 5th release of Ubuntu. Upgrading to Edgy: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EdgyUpgrades - Downloading: http://us.releases.ubuntu.com/6.10/ - Release Notes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyReleaseNotes
<Pici> bleh
<Pici> I did some of them!
<ompaul> !eol
<ompaul> cos I am now curious
<LjL> Pici, what do you mean? unless there is *specific* information to give about a package, !info <package> should be used (which used to be callable with !<package>, but now unfortunately that's not possible). if there's no additional information to give, then no factoid should exist
<ubotu> End-Of-Life is the time when security updates for an Ubuntu release stop. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/LifeCycle
<LjL> but in the case of !kompozer, it has to be stressed that it's in the repositories
<ompaul> LjL, well no what could happen is this, there could be a wiki page where the verbose info is
 * Pici checks the factoids.cgi for examples
<ompaul> kompozer, a replacement for nvu, See here http://wiki.... for more ino
<ompaul> info
<ompaul> then you tell the full story
<LjL> ompaul, i don't much like that. that's similiar to what ubot-it does: mostly just links to sites. our bot's verbosity is an *asset* in my eyes, although of course it creates drawbacks (like any asset)
<ompaul> LjL, okay well, when you have more than a thousand in a channel 
<LjL> besides, i'm not sure the wiki folks would like having a page for every bot factoid we have
<ompaul> and you have a bot with 5 line factoids and most people don't run full screen 
<ompaul> you have a problem
<LjL> then force long factoids to always be given in PM if that's really such a problem
<ompaul> LjL, they would love it, wiki's are for starting info 
<ompaul> LjL, that force long factoids are not the answer
<ompaul> they should be short
 * ompaul files a bug on long factoids :)
<ompaul> the bot is a helper
<ompaul> one line gone
<LjL> short to the point when it's easier to just reply manually than to call the bot? nah.
<Pici> !-printer
<ubotu> printer has no aliases - added by Seveas on 2006-06-18 16:28:26
<ompaul> let me do something here
<Pici> !-printing
<ubotu> printing aliases: printers, print, cupsys, ipp - added by Seveas on 2006-06-18 16:31:13
<Pici> !-cups
<ubotu> cups has no aliases - added by Seveas on 2006-06-18 16:28:32
<Pici> tsk tsk
<ompaul> !printing
<ubotu> Printing in Ubuntu is done with cups. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Printers - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupportComponentsPrinters - http://linuxprinting.org - Printer sharing: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NetworkPrintingFromWindows
<ompaul> Pici, LjL I want to make my case give me three mins to not dos the bot I want to show something here
<ompaul> !automatix
<ubotu> Automatix2 is a 3rd-party product attempting to automate installation of additional software. When it fails and breaks systems, we don't provide support for it. A technical analysis from a Debian/Ubuntu developer can be found at http://mjg59.livejournal.com/77440.html (See also: /msg ubotu worksforme)
<LjL> wiki pages tend to be *very* long. people just don't read them. bot factoids get the point *across* - if you always just link to a wiki page, people will keep not reading it
<LjL> !packages
<ubotu> You can browse and search for Ubuntu packages using !Synaptic, !Adept, "apt-cache search <keywords or regex>", the "apt:/" URL in KDE, or online at http://packages.ubuntu.com - Ubuntu has about 20000 packages available, so please *search* for an official package before installing things in awkward ways!
<ompaul> !root
<ubotu> Do not try to guess the root password, that is impossible. Instead, realise the truth.. there is no root password. Then you will see that it is sudo that grants you access and not the root password. Look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RootSudo
<Pici> ompaul: sorry, go ahead.
<LjL> should this be in a wiki page? no.
<ompaul> LjL, please
<ompaul> they can be if they are addressed with the idea of providing information, they are not stuck 
<ubotu> In ubotu, jussi01 said: !studiocd is <reply> Ubuntu Studio is only available as an alternate CD. Ubquity does not meet Ubuntu Studio's requirements at this time.
<LjL> ompaul, yes they can be in the wiki *too*, but the wiki page will also give another 1500 words and people will miss the POINT: that they should search for packages before installing stuff in weird ways.
<ompaul> we actually made the case there three factoids and I in xchat with a size nine font have more than half a screen missing
<LjL> we should concisely (more concisely than a wiki, but not so concisely that it's easier to just tell them manually) get the point across to them
<ompaul> let's step back to the start of this whole idea
<jussi01> hello all... just incase you didnt notice me ;)
<LjL> ompaul, those factoids simply should not be called in the channel, generally. PM should be used. if it's not, that's !botabuse. which ends up resulting in a kick.
<Pici> !studiocd is <reply> Ubuntu Studio is only available as an alternate CD.  The LiveCD installer does not meet Ubuntu Studio's requirements at this time.
<ubotu> I'll remember that, Pici
 * jussi01 hugs Pici
<Pici> :)
<ompaul> a bot is something that should help the transfer of often asked for information, it should not add to the noise in the channel in a significant way
<ompaul> !enter
<ubotu> Please try to keep your questions/responses on one line - don't use the "Enter" key as punctuation!
<ompaul> !repeat
<ubotu> Don't feel ignored and repeat your question quickly; if nobody knows your answer, nobody will answer you. You can search https://help.ubuntu.com or http://wiki.ubuntu.com while you wait. Also see !patience
<ompaul> !patience
<ubotu> The people here are volunteers, your attitude may determine how fast you are helped.  Not everyone is available all the time, likewise not every answer is available instantly. See also http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines
<LjL> these are not often asked for information :) want to make "patience" shorter?     !no patience is <reply> See  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines
<LjL> but that would NOT be good
<ompaul> but it could be maybe a line shorter here it is three lines
<ompaul> The people here are volunteers. Not everyone with an answer is available all the time. See also http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines
<LjL> ompaul, i'm fine with shrinking them when information is not taken away - when it's just a matter of making the english more concise
<LjL> besides, one has to be careful with aliases. for instance, that factoid went astray...
<LjL> !attitude
<ubotu> The people in this channel are volunteers. Your attitude will determine how fast you are helped. See also http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines
<LjL> i think these were one and the same.
<ompaul> I am minded of the expression:  If I had more time, I would have written a shorter letter
<ompaul> so it patience
<ompaul> LjL, I suppose I am looking for more QA on ubotu
<ompaul> ;-)
<ompaul> TheSheep, and now there is an objective a bot with more QA
<LjL> !no behaviour is <reply> The people here are volunteers, your attitude should reflect that. Answers are not alwaya available. See http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines
<ubotu> I'll remember that LjL
<LjL> !no patience is <alias> behaviour
<ompaul> LjL, ;-) 
<LjL> ompaul, i *have* worked a quite a bit with the bot to make factoids more uniform, organized and *also* to make them link to one another in a sensible way. i'm partial to that. my style is certainly often more verbose than necessary, i can grant that
<ompaul> grant(verbose) to LjL ;-)
<LjL> !behaviour =~ s/alwaya/always/
<ubotu> I'll remember that LjL
<LjL> anyway i think making the bot PM stuff asked after a factoid that contained the same ! can be sound, whether or not factoids are long, i'll file that
<Gary> LjL, Answers are not always available. (alwaya to always)
<LjL> Gary, [18:31:54] <LjL> !behaviour =~ s/alwaya/always/
<ompaul> Gary, scroll back is fun ;-)
 * ompaul runs
 * Gary smacks himself
<LjL> besides, this time i've done it in the channel, but i very often post non-proofread factoids in here, just to inform of the *contents*, but then proceed to proofread them in PM
<Gary> I was not judging 
<Gary> I like your factoids
<ompaul> LjL, you get credited for the most popular factoid
<ompaul> !pb
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<ompaul> called 12406 times
<LjL> ompaul, the !-feature is 100% borked
<LjL> i hardly created that factoid
<Gary> is !boys still about? :-)
<Pici> !boys
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about boys - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
 * Gary cries
<ompaul> you are credited with it ;-)
<LjL> !boys-#ubuntu-offtopic
<ubotu> âª Bad boys, bad boys, watcha gonna do, watcha gonna do when they come for you â«
<Gary> yay
<ompaul> codecs seems to have the most aliases
<ompaul> !ubuntu+1
<LjL> ompaul: i think at a certain point, the *last person who edited* the factoid was recorded, but then it actually became the person who originally wrote it. so some factoids are credited to one, some to the other
<ubotu> Ubuntu 7.10 (Gutsy Gibbon) is the latest version of Ubuntu. Upgrading to Gutsy:  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GutsyUpgrades - Downloading: http://www.ubuntu.com/download - New Features: http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/710tour - Please use bittorrent to download if possible, see !torrents
<LjL> ompaul: check out !adept crash fix ;)
<ompaul> !adept
<ubotu> adept is the Kubuntu package manager. Howto: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AdeptHowto
<ompaul> !adept crash fix
<ubotu> If an APT front-end crashed and your database is locked, try this in a !terminal: Â« sudo fuser -vki /var/lib/dpkg/lock;sudo dpkg --configure -a Â»
<LjL> !-aptlock
<ubotu> aptlock aliases: adept crash fix, adeptcrashfix, adeptfix, adept fix, adept fix crash, dpkg fix crash, dpkg crash fix, adept unlock, aptfix, fix adept, fixadept, adeptcrash, apt-fix - added by LjL on 2007-10-21 15:31:48
<ompaul> wooooo yukie
<LjL> nobody *ever* remembers what the correct syntax is, and they invent a new one :P
<ompaul> so many ways to say it
<Tm_T> :p
<ompaul> !hardy
<ubotu> Hardy Heron is the code name for the next release of Ubuntu (8.04-LTS) | Due April 2008 | For more info, see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyHeron | Discussion and support in #ubuntu+1
<Pici> !secret download
<ubotu> super secret downloads! - http://mirrors.ccs.neu.edu/releases.ubuntu.com/releases/releases/releases/releases/releases/releases/releases/releases/releases/releases/releases/releases/releases/releases/releases/releases/releases/releases/
<ompaul> hehe
<LjL> hm that might be deleted now i think :)
<LjL> !forget secret download
<ubotu> I'll forget that, LjL
<Pici> Nope, still works
<ompaul> it is now
<Pici> aww
<LjL> i meant "might" as in "should" :P
<LjL> you can restore it next release :P
<ompaul> LjL, want to fix !ubuntu+1 ?
<ompaul> it needs to point to hardy
<Pici> What do you mean?
<Pici> oh, nevermind.
<LjL> !no hardy is <reply> Hardy Heron is the code name for the next release of Ubuntu (8.04-LTS), due April 2008 - For more info, see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyHeron - Discussion and support in #ubuntu+1, NOT #ubuntu
<ubotu> I'll remember that LjL
<LjL> !no ubuntu+1 is <alias> hardy
<ubotu> You are editing an alias. Please repeat the edit command within the next 10 seconds to confirm
<LjL> !no ubuntu+1 is <alias> hardy
<ompaul> LjL, !spam call it here and then imagine how wounded I feel ;-)
<ompaul> !spam
<ubotu> Unsure how you should behave on this channel? See !AskTheBot, !CoC, !Guidelines, !Offtopic, !Language, !Attitude, !Repeat, !Enter, !Paste, !NickSpam - and most importantly, use common sense :-)
<LjL> !overly-long-factoid-that-will-destroy-ompaul's-screen-and-make-it-explode-into-pieces
<ompaul> LjL, na it is the repeated !
<LjL> ompaul: well there *is* a reason that !AskTheBot is *first*, though :P
<ompaul> !askthebot
<ompaul> lets see how long this is
<ompaul> if you call one and the others all get called what a mess that would be
<LjL> !no etiquette is <reply> Unsure how you should behave on this channel? See (in a private message with the bot, /msg ubotu <keyword>): !AskTheBot, !CoC, !Guidelines, !Offtopic, !Language, !Attitude, !Repeat, !Enter, !Paste, !NickSpam - and most importantly, use common sense...
<ubotu> I'll remember that LjL
<LjL> !-askthebot
<ubotu> askthebot is <alias> botabuse - added by Seveas on 2006-06-19 23:02:59
<LjL> ompaul: why didn't it reply to you?
<ompaul> !askthebot
<ubotu> Please investigate with me only in /msg or in #ubuntu-bots (type also /msg ubotu Bot). Also avoid adding joke/useless factoids. Abusing the channel bots will only result in angry ops...
<LjL> seveas was lurking and implemented that thing before i could even file it? :P
<Seveas> lurking yes, but not implementing
<ompaul> Seveas, hiya 
<LjL> then why did it ignore ompaul? *scratches head*
 * Gary hides from Seveas 
<ompaul> LjL, your's or mine
<LjL> ompaul: [18:44:56] <ompaul> !askthebot
<LjL> it never replied
<ompaul> I wonder did it see me at all
<Gary> hard to miss
<ompaul> Seveas, I got this idea, it might be totally nuts - or not 
<LjL> i say totally nuts :P
<ompaul> Seveas, imagine you had a second bot that only spoke
<Seveas> !-span
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about span - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<Seveas> !-spam
<ubotu> spam is <alias> etiquette - added by Mez on 2007-02-11 16:34:50
<Seveas> !-askthebot
<ubotu> askthebot is <alias> botabuse - added by Seveas on 2006-06-19 23:02:59
<ompaul> and one that read and passed the parameter to the other
<Seveas> ompaul, that's nuts 
<LjL> yup, nuts. though i haven't understood what you mean anyway :P
<ompaul> Seveas, an even more evil question
<ompaul> does the bot read what it says?
<Seveas> it can be made to
<ompaul> so it does not at this time
<ompaul> thats good ;-)
<LjL> Seveas what about (aside from the fact that you'll be too lazy to implement it, just the concept itself) making factoids go in PM if they were contained in previously called factoids? pici *does* have a point in that this risks making people type !factoid !factoid !factoid because they don't realize they have a PM. worth that risk?
<Seveas> LjL, not sure
<Pici> Good answer :)
<Seveas> I don't like it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't make sense
<LjL> Seveas: well it's not much unlike the current !factoid > myself resulting in a PM (actually i suspect the implementation can be based on it). anyway i *do* like the concept of factoids linking to one another...
<LjL> i'd be sad to see it go away, i'd rather find a workable solution
<ompaul> LjL, are you php capable ikonia is in #ubuntu-offtopic looking for 5 mins
<LjL> hmm i write some php but mostly hack it around while looking at php.net, let's see
<LjL> "solid with the basics" - hardly
<Tm_T> hug me!
<ompaul> Seveas, LjL planning on a mini unban up to mid september for #ubuntu but -- leaving the forwards to read topic
<LjL> is "sudobash" in #ubuntu sudoking aka sudosu?
<LjL> he seems an idiot anyway
 * LjL punches Tm_T
<LjL> ompaul: good though i'd leave nickname/ident/realname bans in place perhaps
<ompaul> as per usual they are
<Tm_T> LjL: :(
<Myrtti> Hey, LjL, he's my friend :-<
 * LjL punches Myrtti too
<Myrtti> Hey, you don't punch a lady with glasses!
<Myrtti> this is unfair!
<LjL> Myrtti: yes, to my hands. you should have warned me about having glasses before i punched you.
<Myrtti> /me pokes LjL with a pink fluffypointed pen blinking with LED lights
<Myrtti> *poink*
<LjL> ooooh, LED
<LjL> see, i told you he was going to be a troll
<Tm_T> who is troll?
<LjL> sudobash
<Tm_T> ah him
<LjL> Seveas, that was good advice though :P
<Seveas> --- Seveas sets ban on sudo*!*@*
<Seveas> is that too wide?
<no0tic> a little too wide, probably :)
<LjL> Seveas, he's probably not the same user as SudoKing as i suspected (checked the /ns info), so until he tries to rejoin no reason to ban him hard...
<no0tic> who knows? perhaps everyone whose name's sudo* is a troll inside
<LjL> and yeah, i think it might be a little too wide anyway... what about hardcore Sudoku players :)
<LjL> by the way, /whois sudokin1
<LjL> sudoking's clone surely
<ompaul> they should play nethack
<LjL> !files
<ubotu> The files and directories on an Ubuntu system are organized according to a standard, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_Hierarchy_Standard - file permissions are explained at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FilePermissions - All filenames and directory names (and many other things) are case sensitive in Linux
<LjL> !no files is <reply> An explanation of how files and directories are organized on Ubuntu, and how they can be manipulated, can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LinuxFilesystemTreeOverview
<ubotu> I'll remember that LjL
<LjL> ompaul: happy? :P (the page mentioned is about to get a revamp, yes)
<Myrtti> joo, on mullakin tossa duunijuttuja auki
<Myrtti> Ã¤rsh
<ompaul> LjL, ;-)
<LjL> Myrtti: i wholeheartedly agree
<ompaul> Myrtti, most likely on tuesdays ... ;-)
<ompaul> ikonia, I take it you saw the pm
<ompaul> ikonia, ohh yes he is - just not with /ignore ;-)
<ikonia> ompaul: I just saw the pm - sorry for the slow response someone was jabbering on to me
<ompaul> ikonia, np
<LjL> gah... how do you give internal links a different label than the pagename on moinmoin
<TheSheep> LjL: you'll love it
<LjL> i have a feeling i won't
<TheSheep> LjL: [:page name:link name]
<LjL> well, i'm happy it can be done at least, i was starting to doubt it
<LjL> ok, have a look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LinuxFilesystemTreeOverview which is now what !files, !permissions, !chmod etc point to, i've basically written it from scratch
<LjL> working on the wiki discourages me
<LjL> i find two pages that look to much alike and start thinking about merging them
<LjL> then i realize there's another *four* pages that basically say the same thing to
<LjL> after my head has already started spinning, i find out that it's really all in the official guide
<LjL> why do we have wiki pages *at all* for stuff that's right there in the guide?
<ompaul> that was where the guides came from
<ompaul> LjL, ^^
<ompaul> LjL, have a chat with mdke maybe there is a chance to start filing "dupes" against the pages and have them worked into one 
<LjL> ompaul: but then the guides sometimes/often seem more polished, somewhat unsurprisingly. though, the wiki often has more "practical" information. at the end of the day, what should we prefer on the bot?
<ompaul> LjL, the offical doc - the wiki the forum
<LjL> ompaul, i already mentioned the issue to mdke (it's about filesystem mounting pages specifically), although when i did, i hadn't yet found that there weren't *only* two pages
<ompaul> unless that has changed
<nalioth> the bot gets what works from the official sources
<LjL> ok, but mostly the bot has links to the wiki currently... very few links to the official guide afaics
<LjL> besides, is wiki.ubuntu.com now supposed to be used for *any* sort of ubuntu documentation?
<ompaul> LjL, yeaop
<LjL> what kind? note that when i say "official guide", i mean like https://help.ubuntu.com/7.04/installation-guide/hppa/directory-tree.html
<LjL> when i say "wiki", i mean like  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LinuxFilesystemTreeOverview
<LjL> and when i say wiki.ubuntu.com, i don't know what i mean
<ompaul> LjL, wiki.ubuntu.com is not help.ubuntu.com 
<LjL> indeed it is not
<ompaul> wiki is help / community
<LjL> right, in fact i call help.ubuntu.com "official guide", and i called help.ubuntu.com/community "wiki"
<LjL> but wiki.ubuntu.com is definitely also a wiki
<LjL> so, help.ubuntu.com is made up by putting stuff together from help.ubuntu.com/community and polishing it -- is that what you're saying?
<LjL> and if yes, what's the place of wiki.ubuntu.com as far as documentation goes?
<jrib> locos and ubuntu teams use it
<jrib> specs too
<jrib> so wiki stuff that is not documentation basically
<LjL> jrib: yes, we use it for the guidelines as well... but that was my question: no *ubuntu* documentation?
<jrib> as I understand it, no ubuntu documentation on wiki.ubuntu.com.  Are you asking where documentation for other things belongs?
<LjL> jrib: no, no, i just wanted to make sure that wiki.ubuntu.com is never for ubuntu documentation.
<LjL> i'm confused enough by the plentiful of stuff in help.ubuntu.com/community + help.ubuntu.com, that's reassuring that at least wiki.ubuntu.com does *not* have documentation
<LjL> infatti
<ompaul> !tor
<ubotu> The #ubuntu channel and related channels ban users joining from anonymous gateways like tor/silenceisdefeat/cgi:irc because the abuse:useful ratio is close to infinity:nothing -- project cloaks will let you join, otherwise you should simply not use an anonymizer.
<ubotu> Attention tor users.  You may think you are anonymous, but you are not.  Please visit http://tor.unixgu.ru/ and see for yourself.   Please evaluate your need to use tor here on irc.  If you wish anonymity, Freenode offers cloaks of many different types. http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#cloaks
<LjL> ompaul: i aliased it to !proxy just some minutes ago
<ompaul> arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
 * ompaul is mid edit
<ompaul> okay
<Pici> Are you two still looking at factoids?
<LjL> !pici
<ompaul> I am
<ubotu> pici is stuck in a factoid factory! Halp!
<Pici> :D
<LjL> !-pici
<ubotu> pici has no aliases - added by Pici on 2007-10-17 17:36:26
<ompaul> and they are the wrong way around
<LjL> i see
<ompaul> but no matter I was trying to cut out a few words
<Pici> <.<
<ompaul> how about >> no proxy is <reply> The #ubuntu and related channels prohibit users on anonymous gateways such as tor/silenceisdefeat/cgi:irc as the abuse from these was extreme. Note that project cloaks will let you join, otherwise you should simply not use an anonymizer. 
<ompaul> it is shorter
<ompaul> The #ubuntu and related channels prohibit users on anonymous gateways such as tor/silenceisdefeat/cgi:irc as the abuse from these was extreme. Note that project cloaks will let you join, otherwise you should simply not use an anonymizer. 
<ompaul> actually 
<ompaul> The #ubuntu and related channels prohibit users on anonymous gateways such as tor/silenceisdefeat/cgi:irc as the abuse from these was extreme. Note that project cloaks will let you join.
<ompaul> yay I got rid of some stuff
<LjL> perhaps the link to cloaks should stay
<LjL> otherwise they'd just ask what the heck a cloak is
<ompaul> yes
<ompaul> The #ubuntu and related channels prohibit users on anonymous gateways such as tor/silenceisdefeat/cgi:irc as the abuse from these was extreme. Note that project cloaks will let you join. See: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#cloaks
<ompaul> boo I want more removed
<LjL> (also anyway the #ubuntu-proxy-users topic is verbose)
<ompaul> let me see 
<LjL> ompaul, you're getting on my nerves now, i'll have to resort to ad hitlerum >:
<LjL> ompaul, you're a factoid conciseness NAZI
<Pici> :O
<nalioth> LjL: ?
<LjL> nalioth: go on
<ompaul> ahh he can stay
<ompaul> he is right 
<ompaul> or wrong
<ompaul> or whatever
<nalioth> pretty harsh, LjL 
<LjL> nalioth: well, i couldn't think of anything nicer that would highlight the whole channel. except !ops, but !ops would have been totally out of context.
<Pici> anyway.
<ompaul> #ubuntu & related channels prohibit access from proxy servers (tor/cgi:irc etc) due to a high level of  the abuse. NB that project cloaks will let you join. See: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#cloaks
<ompaul> more to do 
 * tomaw blinks
<ompaul> #ubuntu & related channels prohibit access from proxy servers (tor/cgi:irc etc) due to a high level of  the abuse. NB Project cloaks allowed: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#cloaks
<LjL> Â¡no proxy is <reply> u cant get in w/ proxiez n00b.
<ompaul> LjL, STOP IT
<ompaul> ;p
<LjL> hey, it's short!
<ompaul> LjL, I want to loose two more words
<Pici> high level of <strike>the</strike> abuse
<LjL> "tor/cgi:irc etc"
<LjL> makes three words
<LjL> and, for goodness sake, restore the "and"
<ompaul> #ubuntu and related channels prohibit access from proxy servers due to a high level of abuse. NB Project cloaks allowed: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#cloaks
<ompaul> whoot
<ompaul> now I am happy
<ompaul> anyone not like that?
<LjL> Pici, now stop writing your request for irc council membership, i'll get away with this :P
<ompaul> shadup already
<LjL> ompaul: i don't like it! oh wait, it's what i just told you to type. i like it.
<ompaul> okay ready to rock
<ompaul> !no proxy is #ubuntu and related channels prohibit access from proxy servers due to a high level of abuse. NB Project cloaks allowed: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#cloaks
<ubotu> I'll remember that ompaul
<Myrtti> why are you shorenin factoids?
<ompaul> Myrtti, they are too long
 * ompaul rofls
<tomaw> You people either have a very odd way of flirty or I am very sleepy
<Pici> Myrtti: Ubotu's server is running out of disk space
<tomaw> flirting*
<LjL> ompaul: i suggest a <reply>
<Myrtti> pwah
<Pici> Plus they weigh less
<ompaul> !no proxy is <reply> #ubuntu and related channels prohibit access from proxy servers due to a high level of abuse. NB Project cloaks allowed: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#cloaks
<ubotu> I'll remember that ompaul
<Pici> I know what NB means, but do our users?
<Myrtti> im so cold
<LjL> cargo boat 6 pm stop turn right six nodes stop
<ompaul> Pici, they better
<ompaul> Pici, point I'll kill it
<LjL> Pici: they'll think we're calling them "noob", it'll work just as well.
<ompaul> !no proxy is <reply> #ubuntu and related channels prohibit access from proxy servers due to a high level of abuse. Project cloaks allowed: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#cloaks
<nalioth> NB ?
<ubotu> I'll remember that ompaul
<ompaul> note beni
<LjL> nota bene
<ompaul> ahh
<ompaul> tomaw, we do indeed - sleepy head
<tomaw> :)
<ompaul> ;-)
<ompaul> can I have one more long factoid please
<LjL> can i has factoidz?!
<ompaul> i can haz factoidz?
<LjL> ah sorry
<Myrtti> lul
<LjL> i'm not fluent in lolcat
<LjL> anyway, hmm, i'm sure i knew many of them
<LjL> but ouch they all escape me now :P
<Myrtti> !automatix
<ubotu> Automatix2 is a 3rd-party product attempting to automate installation of additional software. When it fails and breaks systems, we don't provide support for it. A technical analysis from a Debian/Ubuntu developer can be found at http://mjg59.livejournal.com/77440.html (See also: /msg ubotu worksforme)
<ompaul> LjL, the only really long factoid that I have an interest in now is automatix and it
<ompaul> Myrtti, yeap as I was saying
<ompaul> !works for me
<ubotu> Common Sense: Just because you can, does not mean you should. Think before you do. "Works for me" does not mean it is ok. The latest version of everything is not always useful if you aim for stability.
<ompaul> okay works for me is going to get it and then I will see what I can do with the other
<LjL> ompaul, if you change works for me seveas will kill you. oh, same for !doesn't work.
<Seveas> indeed
<LjL> i'd be in favor of shortening automatix though: Don't use Automatix, it will break your system and we'll laugh at you, kthxbye.
<Seveas> indeed again
<ompaul> LjL, I usually am sensitive to what needs to be said and I think that Seveas might even approve of them
<Myrtti> automatix baddon't use it.
<ompaul> na na na
<LjL> ompaul: seveas approve? do you even know which words you're putting together in the same sentence?
<Seveas> LjL, he may be drunk
<Pici> Seveas resigned from approving things
<ompaul> automatix is lulz joke on U, you can has brokez sestym
<Seveas> Pici, I'm still botmaster ;)
<Pici> Seveas: I know ;)
<jrib> "automatix is not recommended or supported, see: foo"
<Seveas> s/foo/you fool!/
<LjL> and anyway that won't stop him from disapproving i'm sure :P
<Myrtti> cold
<LjL> jokes aside, i +1 jrib. that factoid was recently modified to make it more PC so to say, but it can be PC and yet not waste characters describing something we don't want to hear about
<Myrtti> yeah
<Myrtti> use at your own risk
<Pici> Perhaps !envy should be de-humorized too and focus more on why its not needed now.
<LjL> !no automatix is not recommended, supported or needed. See http://mjg59.livejournal.com/77440.html and Â« /msg ubotu WorksForMe Â»
<ubotu> I'll remember that LjL
<ompaul> !envy
<ubotu> envy is a script that may leave you envious of those who have not used it, use the resticted manager to install binary drivers or use the instructions on the wiki, this script may break your machine very badly!
<ompaul> !no envy is <reply> envy is not needed e the resticted manager to install binary drivers or use the instructions on the wiki.
<ubotu> I'll remember that ompaul
<Pici> !envy =~ s/ e / /
<ubotu> I'll remember that Pici
<LjL> not needed *or supported*.
<LjL> we do want to make clear that we don't support that stuff.
<Pici> !envy =~ s/needed/needed or supported. Use/
<ubotu> I'll remember that Pici
<Pici> !envy
<ubotu> envy is not needed or supported. Use the resticted manager to install binary drivers or use the instructions on the wiki.
<LjL> !no envy is not needed or supported. Use the Resticted Manager to install binary drivers and see Â« /msg ubotu binarydriver Â»
<ubotu> I'll remember that LjL
<LjL> yet again... if i could just write "Use the Restricted Manager to install your !binarydriver"... that would make it so much shorter, no ompaul? :P
<nalioth> but that doesn't put 'envy' in the factoid
<LjL> nalioth: ?
<nalioth> and folks may not realize 'envy' does 'restricted driver things'
<LjL> nalioth, no, i meant this
<Pici> And not realize that we dont support or condone its use
<nalioth> LjL: you have to write these so that retarded idiots can understand them
<LjL> no envy is not needed or supported. Use the Resticted Manager to install your !BinaryDrivers
<LjL> just this
<nalioth> if a retarded idiot can get it, everyone else can, too
<LjL> nalioth: but the thing is that were were arguing earlier whether !linking to !factoids is a good thing, or it just makes people flood the channel by invoking them in the channel
<LjL> having "type /msg ubotu blah blah" in factoids makes them longer and inelegant, and in many cases, just cannot be done
<LjL> the other idea was putting this sort of cross-links in the *wiki* instead, but i think they have their place in the bot
<Myrtti> links get lost on long pages
<LjL> yeah
<Myrtti> gets too growded
<LjL> i do realize that putting !factoids inside factoids makes people type those in the channel
<LjL> that's a drawback i admit
<LjL> but... it's still cool :)
<Myrtti> if the   bot could msg the additionsal info
<Myrtti> automaticaÃ¶lly
<Pici> I think thats asking too much, plus lots of times other people in the channel are interested in what the additional information is.
<ompaul> LjL, go for it
<LjL> Myrtti, i suggested this but i'm not sure it's viable either: when !factoid1 is called in the channel and it mentions !factoid2, then if !factoid2 is called immediately after, it gets sent in a PM to the caller, with a warning to PM the bot in the future
<Tm_T> humm
<LjL> obvious caveat... people who don't understand what a PM is will keep doing !factoid2 !factoid2 thinking the bot is stuck
<LjL> although, imho, that shouldn't really happen so often... when it does one gets a kick, because it doesn't take rocket science to realize that that's spamming a channel
<Tm_T> LjL: some "first part" of information in factoid, rest in wiki, sounds reasonable to me, though apparently people are lazy to read anyway
<LjL> Tm_T: yeah the problem *is* that people are lazy. so i'm concerned about putting the stuff that matters right in the bot, so they won't miss it
<Tm_T> LjL: yup, thats the "first part"
<ompaul> !bootoptions
<ubotu> For a list and explanation on some of the boot options, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BootOptions
<ompaul> now that is a factoid ;-)
<ompaul> !ati
<ubotu> To install the Ati/NVidia drivers for your video card, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BinaryDriverHowto
<ompaul> !wireless
<ubotu> Wireless documentation can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs
<Tm_T> LjL: and IMHO we should encourage to activity in learning ;)
<ompaul> Tm_T, you have no humble in your opinion - you messer
<LjL> ompaul, those *are* useful, but they're little more than tinyurls.
<Tm_T> er?
<LjL> i think the bot has higher uses than that.
<Tm_T> ompaul: ?
<ompaul> Tm_T,  I am being lighthearted
 * Tm_T dont understand
<LjL> Tm_T, don't worry about it.
<Tm_T> :(
<Tm_T> and now I feel like a fool
<Tm_T> though thats not a new thing either
<LjL> Tm_T, i mean, i have no idea what he's talking about either
<ompaul> Tm_T, I am hard to understand at the best of times
<ompaul> proof positive of this is the topic in -offtopic
<LjL> ompaul: now, want some taste of some of my *real* factoids? :>
<LjL> !p2p
<ubotu> Peer-to-peer filesharing clients are available for several networks/protocols, including !BitTorrent, !Gnutella, !eDonkey, !DirectConnect, !SoulSeek - Multi-protocol engines include !MLDonkey and !giFT - See wiki.ubuntu.com/P2PFileSharing for general information
<LjL> go on, follow the links
<LjL> also, where did the http:// go
<ompaul> ood dear
<ompaul> !bittorrent
<ubotu> Torrent clients: Transmission (GTK and terminal-based), Deluge-Torrent, Freeloader, BitStormLite, BitTornado-GUI (GTK), KTorrent (KDE), QTorrent (Qt), Azureus (Java), TorrentFlux (web-based), bittornado, rTorrent, cTorrent, bittorrent, aria2 (terminal-based) - FAQ: http://www.bittorrent.com/FAQ.html - See also !P2P
<ompaul> !edonkey
<ubotu> eDonkey clients: aMule (GTK, stand-alone), mldonkey-gui (GTK, based on MLDonkey), KMLDonkey (KDE, based on MLDonkey) - See also !P2P
<ompaul> !directconnect
<ubotu> Direct Connect clients: Valknut (Qt), dcgui (GTK), dc-qt (Qt, alpha), rccp (terminal-based) - See also !P2P
<ompaul> !soulseek
<ubotu> SoulSeek clients: Nicotine (GTK), Museeq (KDE), Mucous (terminal-based) - See also !P2P
<ompaul> !mldonkey
<ubotu> mldonkey is a peer-to-peer filesharing engine supporting several networks and protocols, available in !Universe as 'mldonkey-server'. Clients include mkdonkey-gui (GTK) and KMLDonkey (KDE). See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MLDonkey - See also !P2P
<ompaul> !gift
<LjL> you killed the bot now
<ompaul> heh
<ubotu> gift is a peer-to-peer filesharing engine supporting several networks and protocols by means of plug-ins. It's available in !Universe. Clients include gifTui, giFToxic (GTK), Apollon (KDE), giFTcurs (terminal-based) - See also !P2P
 * ompaul cries
<nalioth> channel !spam
<nalioth> channel !spam
<nalioth> channel !spam
<LjL> hey, i just wrote them, ompaul called them.
<LjL> bad ompaul.
<ompaul> LjL, they all should call p2p which then points to the url
<ompaul> which is rather verbose
<ompaul> LjL, some additional clients could be added to the wiki
<LjL> verbose, yes... it tells you what the *Windows* clients are
<LjL> ... and, sometimes, what some of the Ubuntu clients are
<LjL> without even specifying if they're GNOME or KDE
<LjL> also, why is it on wiki.ubuntu.com?
<ompaul> LjL, now theres a job for someone ;-)
<LjL> didn't we just finish saying wiki.ubuntu.com was *not for ubuntu documentation*?
<ompaul> LjL, cos it is so unprofessional 
<ompaul> it never made the leap
<ompaul> well now there is a project for next week
<ompaul> right now I am going to bed!
<LjL> ompaul: waitwait, there is a help.ubuntu.com page too!
<LjL> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/P2PHowTo
 * ompaul gives up
<ompaul> sleep will not be easy LjL I tell ya
<ompaul> ;-)
<nalioth> night, ompaul 
<LjL> nonono
<LjL> aaaw he hasn't looked at the lovely eDonkey paragraph
<LjL> where they make you get a tarball
<LjL> and the run the .sh script.... not as root though
<LjL> ok seriously, a lot of the documentation is a mess. i suppose i could go and write yet another wiki page from scratch (as it's easier than putting the existing stuff together)
<LjL> but really, ubotu is *already* better than that
<Pici> I agree, the wiki *is* a mess
<LjL> Pici: *which* wiki? :)
<LjL> i don't think i've really understood yet which one is the real one :P
<Pici> um.. wiki/help.ubuntu.com?
<LjL> Pici: yeah, wiki or help? why is there documentation in wiki.? why is it duplicated in help.? ompaul said the wiki. one is so lousy that it didn't make it to help., but the help. one is even lousier on the same topic
#ubuntu-ops 2008-10-27
<Flannel> wow, an entry without a hello sinners.
<Flannel> whaaa?
<Flannel> !gtfo
<ubottu> Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family friendly.
<Flannel> !noob
<ubottu> Acronyms or statements like  noob, jfgi, stfu, or rtfm are not welcome in this channel. Period.
<Flannel> odd.
<Flannel> orifice: Howdy.
<LjL> orifice, how about you change your quit message, it isn't entirely nice
<Flannel> LjL: believe he's idle
<Flannel> ubottu: tell cooldude|away about away
<orifice> well ok, I'll do that ...
<LjL> thanks
<Flannel> orifice: You can rejoin #ubuntu
<LjL> what's going to happen to #kubuntu-kde4 now
<Flannel> Not sure.
<Flannel> orifice: Please don't idle here.
<nalioth> PARTY!
<Flannel> You can either do 4 and 3 support in the same channel, or make a -kde3 channel for older versions
<nalioth> kde3 support will be waning
<Flannel> Only another year of KDE3 support, yeah.
<nalioth> and that will be only for the folks who've not upgraded
<LjL> which is why i'll probably be switching to something else anyway
<Flannel> nalioth: Yeah, but we have plenty of people in #ubuntu who have older versions, they won't go away
<nalioth> Flannel: understood, but eventyally, they _will_ go away
<mneptok> *sigh*
<mneptok> children.
<mneptok> if wsa should come complaining, i refer you to: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/63089/
<mneptok> off for TV
<orifice> sorry.  
<Flannel> ubottu: tell oly562 about coc
<Flannel> Anyone awake?
<Tm_T> hm?
<Flannel> Just asking for a second opinion, but you're not in #u, so don't worry about it.
<Tm_T> aww
<Flannel> He... already took the liberty of removing the doubt
<Tm_T> hehe
<bazhang_> without question. Toyota Corolla?
<Flannel> Heh
<Flannel> That's what got him kicked the first time.
<Flannel> Ah, and of course, he's a talker.
<bazhang_> he is in PM? 
<Flannel> Aye
<bazhang_> oof
<Flannel> Nothing terribly witty though, unfortunately.
<bazhang_> clearly not.
<Flannel> great, ban evasion.
<mneptok> Flannel: if you're going to be active for a while, just ban 119.11.15.* and be done with it ;)
<mneptok> (then remove when you go idle)
<Flannel> mneptok: Nah, second one wasn't from there.  Or at least, that I could see.
<Flannel> i=plural@creep.bur.st]
<mneptok> EF_Codd was who i was talking about
<Flannel> mneptok: right, same guy.
<Flannel> came back as that host
<mneptok> so ban both >:)
<Flannel> I did.
<mneptok> well, not the wildcard raw IP
<mneptok> *shrug*
<mneptok> juss sayin'. he's your ... project. :/
<Flannel> if he came back, I'm sure it'd be with an entirely different host, etc.
<Flannel> mneptok: olys been giving mild annoyances all day.
<mneptok> yeah, i /lastlog'ed before admonishing
<mneptok> !staff ylsid
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about staff ylsid
<mneptok> gah
<mneptok> !staff
<ubottu> Hey nalioth, jenda, rob, SportChick, seanw, Dave2, Christel, tomaw, Gary, Vorian or PriceChild, I could  use a bit of your time :)
<mneptok> ylsid just spammed #u, and is connected to a bunch of other distro channels
<mneptok> okee, bedtime
<mneptok> noitay
<ubottu> In ubottu, sayedmohu said: nobody is bothered to answer me
<sayedmohu> can somebody help me out
<Flannel> sayedmohu: support happens in #ubuntu, this channel is for disciplinary and administrative things.
<sayedmohu> so where should i go to get some help
<Flannel> sayedmohu: #ubuntu
<sayedmohu> i'm already there.... but i'm not getting any satisfactory response
<Flannel> sayedmohu: You weren't helping anyone to help you.
<sayedmohu> i'm a dummy in ubuntu... so how can i help
<Flannel> sayedmohu: When people ask you questions about your problem, answer them.
<sayedmohu> didn't u see that i answered???
<Flannel> sayedmohu: Then they ask for more information, and you don't answer.  No one can fix a problem if they don't know what the problem is.
<sayedmohu> i answered
<Flannel> blargh.  s/Sunday/Trollday/
<jussi01> Flannel: is it not monday?
<Flannel> jussi01: It's 1am, but I haven't gone to sleep yet, so it's still Sunday.  Also, it's the end of the day, and has been this way for an unfortunately large amount of time today.
 * jussi01 hugs Flannel
<Flannel> I imagine it has to do with the upcoming release.
<jussi01> likely
<Flannel> oh, and if oly562 steps out of line, ban him.  I've given him many warnings, and had a nice discussion with him.  I imagine he'll wait at least an hour before trying something else though.  But he's really been given too many chances as it is.
<Flannel> hmmm, jussi01, ubottu seems to be lagging
<jussi01> !test
<ubottu> sigh... again? I'm busy here, I already told you it failed.
<Flannel> oh wait
<jussi01> hehe
<Flannel> nope, just a repeat factoid
<Flannel> Whos awake with -ot ops?
<Flannel> jussi01?
<jussi01> nope
<jussi01> I dont have ot ops
<Flannel> bother.
<ikonia> Flannel: -ot lack of ops guys is something I may post about ont he mail list
<ikonia> been caught out quite a few times
<ikonia> cwillu: what's up ?
<cwillu> was about to gripe about the kick-troll in #ubuntu-offtopic.  More because he managed to bait a dozen folks, which defeated my ignore filter :p
<ikonia> cwillu: looks like Flannel is sorting it
<cwillu> over and done with, yes, thanks :)
 * cwillu wonders if he's supposed to leave the channel now :p
<ikonia> the elk was awake
<ikonia> cwillu: type "/topic"
<elkbuntu> is it back?
<cwillu> ah, missed that
<ikonia> no no
<ubottu> UbuntuHelper called the ops in #kubuntu ()
<elkbuntu> oh dear
<ikonia> elkbuntu: I didn't se you deal with it just flannel hunting for someone
<elkbuntu> you lied
<ikonia> oh great
<ikonia> jussi01: you'r up;)
<ikonia> jussi01: remove him, he's trying it in ##linux
<ikonia> he's doing it in every channel
<Flannel> ikonia: I only got rid of him in #u when he brought that particular incident there. He's been grating on my in #u for at least four hours, slowly.
<elkbuntu> !staff ^
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about staff ^
 * elkbuntu scowls at ubottu
 * jussi01 scowls at elkbuntu - learn to use her! :P
<ikonia> I know that IP
<ikonia> @btlogin
<Flannel> ikonia: I didn't see anything earlier
<ikonia> Hmmmm
<ikonia> same subnet was in my personal logs for some reason
<ikonia> maybe a typo on my part
<elkbuntu> riiighto. someone please hold me back in #freenode.
<Flannel> elkbuntu: what happened?
<elkbuntu> i'm being told to /ignore a troll and leave it for the ops of ubuntu channels to deal with
<Flannel> nice.
<jussi01> elkbuntu: mrhgh
<elkbuntu> by a moron unaffiliated
<jussi01> yay for christel :)
<elkbuntu> christel, note the scrollback, and i'll grep his stupidity from -offtopic
<christel> thank you
<elkbuntu> he actually left when asked, but is being a serial pest everywhere
<Flannel> elkbuntu: he timed out when asked, doubt it was intentional
<elkbuntu> Flannel, it's not the first time he's done this
<Flannel> elkbuntu: I'm sure.
<christel> has he also used a different nick? or is ubuntuhelper the only one?
<ikonia> when he signs in it's ubuntu as he appears to be on a live cd
<elkbuntu> christel, see http://pastebin.ca/1237663 -- it's without context, but i'm not sure it's needed. can provide if you want.
<Flannel> ikonia: its actually U first, then he switches to Ubuntu, then UbuntuHelper
<elkbuntu> christel, he's only half-registered too
<ikonia> Flannel: so not a livecd then by the looks of it
<elkbuntu> -NickServ- UbuntuHelper has NOT COMPLETED registration verification
<elkbuntu> ikonia, what did he do in ##linux?
<ikonia> just started trying !ops
<ikonia> until the ##linux ops stepped in
<ikonia> no reason
<Flannel> ikonia: I'd say no.  He was originally (earlier tonight) on as admin__
<jussi01> he is back: 
<jussi01> [11:39:06] <-- UbuntuHelper (n=admin@c220-237-186-71.frank1.vic.optusnet.com.au) has quit (Remote closed the connection)
<jussi01> [11:40:11] --> U (n=admin@c220-237-186-71.frank1.vic.optusnet.com.au) has joined #kubuntu
<jussi01> [11:40:38] <-> U is now known as Guest84368
<elkbuntu> ikonia, you'd probably have plenty of optus subnets in your logs. they're a major phone/isp company here.
<ikonia> then started to ask people how he could help, 
<ikonia> elkbuntu: this one was only a range up
<elkbuntu> ikonia, when you're bored, /who *optusnet.com.au and cry.
<ikonia> ha ha
<jussi01> elkbuntu: christel do you need the bit from #k just now?
<christel> nah its ok, in there now
<christel> he's been in ##linux previously, though, at the time he was helpful 
<ikonia> looks like he's been in ubuntu too as admin__
<jussi01> ok, i spuriously called the ops in #kubuntu, when he didnt get anyone answering
<jussi01> s/i/he
<ikonia> as Flannel suggested
<christel> which means goodchristels attempted mental explanation of them being just overentusiastic and new to irc wont work ;)
<Myrtti> hello |_ocke 
<elkbuntu> christel, sounds like someone who has imbibed a little more than they should have, to be honest
<christel> yeah
<elkbuntu> either way, pestilence is not really a welcomed thing in busy channels
 * Myrtti coughs
<christel> yeah, im just trying to work out whether its worth attempting to speak with them or not
<christel> (im only 2 sips into my morning coffee, so i hope for their sake that its not!)
<ikonia> keep the faith
<elkbuntu> christel, give them the night off, if they come back idiotic, talk then
<elkbuntu> the -offtopic behaviour makes me think talk will do little
<bazhang_> !idle | |_ocke chalcedony 
<ubottu> |_ocke chalcedony: Please keep in mind that this channel is for operator/abuse questions only, and we ask you to part when you have no further business here, in order to keep track of users with pending inquiries.
<ikonia> bazhang_: chalcedony been idle for days
<bazhang_> ikonia, ah I see; any reason he is here?
<ikonia> I don't know him, Myrtti was asking about him yesterday
<bazhang_> k
<Myrtti> is |_ocke muted?
<ikonia> he's active in #ubuntu
<Myrtti> I'm not that fluent with chanserv.py yet
<Myrtti> no, here
<ikonia> nothing in bt
<Myrtti> he is muted
<Myrtti> with his ip
<ikonia> Myrtti: I don't see him getting muted in here in my log
<|_ocke> thanks
<Myrtti> ikonia: /bans
<ikonia> it's an old ban
<|_ocke> i got banned like a month and a half ago
<|_ocke> i was drunk and talking about some stupid chick
<Myrtti> s/some stupid chick/center of your universe/
<|_ocke> nonono s/center of my universe/center of my best friend's universe and someone i dont care about in the slightest anymore
<|_ocke> its complicated and very weird, and very much over heh
<Myrtti> si, if we let you back in #ubuntu-offtopic, will you be ranting about how the "chick" dumped you for your best friend?
<|_ocke> no
<|_ocke> i dont talk about her anymore :P
<|_ocke> i did  buy her lunch yesterday i guess.. but other than that, she can piss off
<|_ocke> besides, shes going to rehab next week
<|_ocke> cause shes a stupid little girl with no self control heh
<ikonia> |_ocke: easy on the language please. 
<ikonia> |_ocke: show you can use self control
<Myrtti> intresting 
<|_ocke> er, i mean she can ... nevermind just anyways no worries about that
<Myrtti> I miss irssi and my aliases
<|_ocke> i never could get the hang of irssi
<|_ocke> which is why i run xchat2
<|_ocke> i do miss some of the functionality of mIRC, but i would never run a native win app in my linux
<|_ocke> i refuse to taint my standard set of apps
<|_ocke> i'll play some random win games with WINE but never something i use regularly
<|_ocke> hence, i use transmission instead of utorrent
<bazhang_> !idle
<ubottu> Please keep in mind that this channel is for operator/abuse questions only, and we ask you to part when you have no further business here, in order to keep track of users with pending inquiries.
<|_ocke> even though i know utorrent is better :P
<bazhang_> |_ocke, please dont idle here
<|_ocke> i'll leave as soon as someone lets me back in #ubuntu-offtopic..
<bazhang_> |_ocke, that is not the way it works
<|_ocke> bazhang_, but i was supposed to be banned for a month, i didn't come back till now, and its been at least a month an a half maybe 2 or 3 i dunno, i just put it out of my m ind for awhile
<|_ocke> why can't i get unbanned?
<bazhang_> |_ocke, that is independent of idling here
<|_ocke> i didn't protest or try to fight it, i waited till long after.. i just want to get back in the channel
 * Myrtti coughs
<Myrtti> the way I see this is.
<|_ocke> i really am part of the ubuntu community, i run it exclusively, i've converted at least a dozen people from win to ubuntu who still use it (a couple hundred more that i dont know the current status of) and I really love ubuntu, i just want to be part of it
<|_ocke> i just dont see why i should still be banned when its long after the ban was supposed to be removed and the reason for the ban doesn't even exist anymore
<Myrtti> I *might* let you in the channel, but there seems to be a problem with your compulsiveness
<|_ocke> also, i've helped at least 3-4 people in #ubuntu resolve their problems and had them tell me in /msg that what I told them fixed what they were having problems with
<Myrtti> *if* I let you back in, you have to realise you're still on probation
<|_ocke> yes i realize that
<|_ocke> i won't say anything really stupid or talk about anything that doesn't involve myself personally or computers/linux
<bazhang_> |_ocke, you have also been offtopic in #ubuntu of late
<Myrtti> goddamnit I spilt coffee on my bed
<|_ocke> bazhang_, honestly i would've been talking in #ubuntu-offtopic but i was banned :P
<bazhang_> |_ocke, that is not an acceptable reason to be offtopic in #ubuntu
<|_ocke> bazhang_, it was just responding to other people though you gotta admit that
<|_ocke> i dont want to be offtopic in #ubuntu
<bazhang_> then dont
<|_ocke> i want to be offtopic in #ubuntu-offtopic
<bazhang_> |_ocke, you were not responding; you started out by being offtopic
<|_ocke> if you guys unban me i promise i wont say anything irresponsible in offtopic and i wont say anything that isn't just asking an ubuntu-related question or helping with an ubuntu quesion someone else has in #ubuntu
<|_ocke> if i do anything contrary, i submit to being permanently banned
<|_ocke> and if i get to a point where i'm so intoxicated that i can't control myself at any point ever i'll disconnect this entire network for the remainder of the night
<|_ocke> not saying thats a probability, just saying if it happens
<bazhang_> not very re-assuring
<|_ocke> i'm just trying to cover all bases
<|_ocke> i have a lot of other stuff to do if i'm out partying, i just wanted to say that if i end up at home afterwards i wont bring it here
<|_ocke> it'd be messed up to lie and say i don't get loaded sometimes
<Myrtti> ok...
<Myrtti> so
<|_ocke> but when i'm on irc, i'm on irc, and its not gonna be for anything except computer related stuff, and just to chat, but i am in at least 15 other chans t the same time for that
<|_ocke> #ubuntu* is for ubuntu related stufff and i'll use it for that only
<|_ocke> well, except #ubuntu-offtopic, but thats still even somewhat tied to ubuntu
<elkbuntu> |_ocke, i advise you to not ramble away this opportunity to re-enter the channel. it
<Myrtti> I've lifted the ban from -offtopic. It'll go back in a heartbeat if I hear anyone complaining.
<Tm_T> Myrtti: <3
<|_ocke> Myrtti, thank you
<Myrtti> and I'm already hearing complaints on this channel, which isn't reassuring
<Myrtti> so, behave
<|_ocke> i will
<Myrtti> hmmm
<Myrtti> I've bought a book so old it doesn't have ISBN
<Myrtti> locke: anything else?
<locke> Myrtti, whaa? whered you get that?
<locke> what book is it?
<locke> Myrtti, other than that, no not really
<locke> i thought all books had isbn since like the 1700s or something
<Gary> Myrtti: is it hand printed?
<Myrtti> see you in -offtopic then
<Tm_T> Myrtti: you will keep a phone hearby today?
<Tm_T> nearby even
<Myrtti> Tm_T: sure
<Tm_T> roger, I might call you or something, depends on stuff & co
<Myrtti> ok
<Tm_T> but now another place, see you later dear sister
<Myrtti> oh, my phone is face down
<Myrtti> good, no one has called
<Myrtti> locke: *cough*
<Myrtti> locke: if you don't have anything else...
<locke> er
<locke> yeah
<locke> sorry i forgot
<locke> later
<Myrtti> tata
<elkbuntu> he's um, still not quite off the red cordial yet.
<denny> hullo
<bazhang_> hi :)
<denny> can I get confirmation from a GC that glade88 can have an ubuntu cloak?
<denny> says it got stomped on by his donator cloak, I'm about to combine them if I get the confirmation
<elkbuntu> sec
<elkbuntu> denny, can he provide us with his launchpad login?
<elkbuntu> i mean, the launchpad username
<denny> <glade88> sayakb
<Mez> ut-oh - AM report ;)
<elkbuntu> denny, seems to be eligible.
<denny> thanks
 * denny wavicles and gets back to work
<bazhang_> heads up on r0ach; been removed once for bad language/offtopic
<ubottu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit)
<ubottu> FloodBot3 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit)
<jussi01> hrm... in #u: [14:17:32] <Arbe> DCC SEND startkeylogger 0 0 0
<Myrtti> tsk
<elkbuntu> jussi01, um, not wise to repeat those lines
<jussi01> elkbuntu: oops. 
<ubottu> In #ubuntu+1, danbh_intrepid said: !ooo3 is <reply> Information about OpenOffice 3.0 on Intrepid can be found here https://launchpad.net/bugs/267376
<jussi01> !scope > danbh_intrepid
<jussi01> @btlogin
 * Myrtti lols at Linus
<ikonia> ?
<Myrtti> ikonia: http://torvalds-family.blogspot.com/2008/10/candyland.html
<jussi01> hahaha
<jussi01> hello genii
 * Myrtti drools at thinking of licorice ice cream
<Myrtti> mmmmmmmmmmMMMHHHHRRR
<ikonia> ughh
<Myrtti> nom
<Myrtti> nomnom
<ikonia> scott__ and sam_ appear to be the same person 
<ikonia> in #ubuntu
<ikonia> or 2 people in different locations connect from the same DSL line ???
<genii> Hi jussi01
<ubottu> In ubottu, ziroday said: !xmms is xmms is no longer being developed, see http://bugs.debian.org/461309 for more details.  Consider using audacious, bmpx, or xmms2 instead.
<ikonia> can someone with -ot ops ban forward eagles0513875 to ##fix-your-connection pelase
<LjL> sure thing
<ikonia> ta
<ikonia> slick
<ikonia> gratzie mille 
<LjL> no T :)
<ikonia> ah
<LjL> an italian Z sounds like "ts" all by itself
<ikonia> cool
<ikonia> I should go back to learning Italian 
<LjL> actually i always found that pretty interesting
<ikonia> or mastering english first
<LjL> in the sense that, as far as i could see, most italians don't in the least realize that the Z is really two phonemes
<LjL> myself, i've played a lot with the AmigaOS speech synthesizer when i was a child, and attempted to make it speak italian
<LjL> it took me months to realize that "ts" was the thing to make it say for the "z" letter
<Myrtti> you geeky thing you
<jussi01> Myrtti: I suggest you take a long hard look at yourself :P
<LjL> heh
<LjL> !lt is <reply> Å iame kanale bendraujama anglÅ³ kalba. Jei ieÅ¡kote pagalbos lietuviÅ³ kalba, prisijunkite prie #ubuntu-lt kanalo.
<ubottu> I'll remember that, LjL
<LjL> !lithuanian is <alias> lt
<ikonia> LjL: I wonder how microsoft's speech system would work with that as it is supposed to cover languages
<LjL> ikonia: Microsoft's speech uses sampled speech fragments from actual humans, it needs a database for every language it supports
<LjL> same as with Festival
<ikonia> LjL so does that mean there is an Italias database for it that would say tz = z
<ikonia> Italian even
<LjL> ikonia: not quite. there are two databases for each language. one is the actual speech fragments database, which basically has a soundfile for each sound (not really, it's got one for every group of three phones, but anyway)
<LjL> ikonia: then there is a set of rules that tries (and, in italian, generally succeeds, since there's a strong correspondence between writing system and actual phonemes) to translate written sentences into a list of those sounds
<LjL> ikonia: so, most likely, the italian database would already include a recorded soundfile for our "z" sound, not separate "t" and "s" sounds (since they're never used separately anyway)
<LjL> ikonia: when using a synth that generates sounds purely artificially (like AmigaOS's), then you'd still have two layers even there. the sound layer has a collection of phones and their corresponding speech generation parameters (these synths have parameters for mouth aperture, tongue position, etc)
<LjL> the other database would be the very same writing-system-to-phones translation one
<ikonia> I see what your saying
<ikonia> I didn't know it worked like that
<LjL> ikonia: you can't just use the same sounds database for all languages. a "t" in english really doesn't sound like a "t" in italian in most situations (it's aspirate in english, and the tongue is further back than in italian)
<LjL> ikonia: if you used an english phones database together with an italian writing-to-phones translation database (basically what i did on AmigaOS), you'd end up with a voice that speaks Italian with a very strong English accent, and vice-versa
<ikonia> no of courrse not, I can see how that needs to be seperated
<ikonia> I can hear that in my head
<LjL> though you'd also have the problem of some phonemes simply not existing
<LjL> there is no "th" or "h" sound in italian, and there is no "gn" or "gl" sound in english
<ikonia> there is no th
<ikonia> how odd
<LjL> ikonia: most not-very-english-savvy italians would pronounce "th" as "s", "z", "f" or "v"
<ikonia> LjL can you give me a "word" example of that
<LjL> ikonia: "zey are", "vey are", or "everyfing", "everysing"
<ikonia> ok 
<ikonia> few of them make sense when I hear a few italian friend speaking english
<LjL> ikonia: unless you're an italian with a lisp, in which case ;)
<ikonia> all bets are off
<Myrtti> I guess that relates to how most Finns have difficulties pronouncing olympics
<Myrtti> well, in Finnish
<LjL> ikonia: although in italy (which lisp is present) the most common speech defect by far is not rolling R
<LjL> although there are many ways different people with that defect will render their R
<jussi01> Myrtti: I love the finnish "system" :P
<LjL> Myrtti: why so?
<ikonia> how odd (to me) that not rolling an R is a defect
<Myrtti> LjL: it's against the finnish phonemes to have o, a or u in the same word with Ã¶, Ã¤ or y
<LjL> ikonia: there is a somewhat similar though less common defect in english... "i am woger wabbit"
<Myrtti> so Olympialaiset is often mangled into Olumpialaiset
<LjL> Myrtti: ah right, i read something like that on wp
<LjL> Myrtti: yes, that brings me to another point --
<LjL> which is that generally speaking, an italian *can* pronounce "th" or "h" if they're explained
<LjL> but they'll have difficulty actually placing those sounds in a sentence consistently
<ikonia> LjL I know the W defect
<LjL> i'm giving english lessons to a girl for instance now
<LjL> she can pronounce "h" fine, if alone
<LjL> but she'll either say "i ave" or "hi have", not "i have"
<LjL> i've given up on the "th" entirely
<genii> "I ave" you could get by with as Cockney or so ;)
<LjL> genii: yeah most of the typical italian oddities when pronouncing english are found in a dialect or another. it's the mixture of them that makes you have an unmistakably italian accent.
<genii> Interesting
<LjL> that girl also does the "it'sa got" thing, that really gives me the chills. itsa me mario, meh.
<LjL> mind, my own english pronounciation is quite terrible, but.
<genii> LjL: My cousin was born deaf, he learnt to speak through a system which Alexander Graham Bell invented of diagramming the mouth/tongue/throat positions as they related to specific sounds
<genii> LjL: He is quite understandable now
<LjL> genii: not much different from what generation-based speech synthesizer do. there are a couple interesting ones even packaged in ubuntu, i think (interesting in the sense that they also come with GUI tools that actually show you the tongue etc. positions that they are simulating)
<ikonia> LjL: I was about to ask about your accent
<ikonia> you type and your gramma is excellent, I was curious to how your wording was
<ikonia> genii: that sounds unusual and quite an interesting topic to research
<LjL> ikonia: well, you can check that out. -ot people already did, and found it hilarious. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vowel
<LjL> just go to wherever the "spoken version of this article" tag is
<LjL> or Consonant, too
<LjL> actually even that venerable AmigaOS synth could output mouth parameters, although i think it only gave mouth aperture (so you could draw a mouth that would move with the speech), not other parameters
<ikonia> LjL is the spoken version you /
<ikonia> ?
<LjL> yeah
<ikonia> oh, excellent, I'll grab it now
<LjL> ikonia: and mind, which it's bad enough, i never could have actually recorded it like that. it's a collection of several pieces of sentences, some repeated *several* times until they came out decent
<genii> ikonia: It's a system called Visible Speech which Bell and his father worked on
<LjL> i've also made the Spanish version, http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vocal
<LjL> that really sounds much better than the english version
<LjL> even though i've never studied any spanish
<ikonia> genii researching
<ikonia> LjL: just looking for headphones as I'm sure the office doesn't want to hear you
<LjL> that's for sure
<Myrtti> awww
<Myrtti> sounds so... young!
<Myrtti> *sigh*
<Myrtti> my patience is again running short on hynix/ASUS-tek
<ikonia> I thought he was banned
<Myrtti> that would be too good
<ikonia> I thought he got banned ages ago
<Myrtti> he was banned for a while
<Myrtti> was given a preach about derogative use of the word chicks
<Myrtti> *sigh*
<Myrtti> also about his nickchanging
<Myrtti> no
<Myrtti> I will not get myself angry again
 * genii hands Myrtti a soothing tea
<ikonia> I see no value in allowing people like him to contibute, as it's clear they just want a rise, nothign more, so why persist with the posturing of "allowing them to change"
<Myrtti> the problem is that stupidity isn't strictly forbidden in the rules
<ikonia> it's not stupidity
<ikonia> it's causing offense and not being able to particiapte in a channel with other people
<ikonia> anyone know the indonisian loco channe l?
<LjjjL> ikonia: #ubuntu-id
<ikonia> thank you
<LjjjL> not that there is anyone in there
<ikonia> great
<LjjjL> ikonia: look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamList for other places to contact them
<ikonia> I couldn't see it on the list, and ubottu wasn't offering me the right trigger
<Myrtti> !id
<ubottu> join ke #ubuntu-id untuk membahas ubuntu dalam bahasa Indonesia
<ikonia> ahhh id
<Myrtti> what did you try?
<LjjjL> !indonesian is <alias> id
<ubottu> In #ubuntu-ops, LjjjL said: !indonesian is <alias> id
<Myrtti> @login
<ubottu> The operation succeeded.
<ikonia> in (india)
<LjjjL> @login
<ubottu> Error: Your hostmask doesn't match or your password is wrong.
<LjjjL> !indonesian is <alias> id
<LjjjL> oh die
<Myrtti> !indonesian is <alias> id
<ubottu> But indonesian already means something else!
<Myrtti> !indonesian
<ubottu> join ke #ubuntu-id untuk membahas ubuntu dalam bahasa Indonesia
<LjjjL> !-indonesian
<ubottu> indonesian is <alias> id - added by Pici on 2007-11-05 00:30:38
<Myrtti> right
<ikonia> oh, there we go
<Myrtti> !indonesian
<ikonia> should have tried it as a full word
<Myrtti> doh
<ikonia> @bansearch 88.222.157.24
<ubottu> No matches found for 88.222.157.24!*@* in any channel
<ikonia> @bansearch webas
<ubottu> No matches found for webas!n=peace@88.222.157.24 in any channel
<genii> ikonia: I think he just has ADD or so
<ikonia> maybe.... I see he's in #kubuntu to
<ikonia> 16:44 -!- Odo [n=odo@unaffiliated/odo] has quit ["Odo is tired... He goes to revert to his natural, gelatinous state to regenerate."]
<ikonia> genius
<mneptok> ikonia: let's just hope he's not referring to the spermatozoa "natural state"
<ikonia> ha ha ha ha
<ikonia> spermatozoa
<ikonia> 17:27 -!- Blue-Omega [n=null@about/cooking/nakedchef/omelette/Blue-Omega]
<ikonia> ther has been some cool cloaks/part messages today
<ikonia> there
<ubot3> In #ubuntu-cn, Darksair said: ubot3: whose bot is this?
<ikonia> ubot3: tell darksair ubuntu's
<ubot3> ikonia: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<ikonia> damn 
<Myrtti> it would give the wrong answer
<Myrtti> the correct in this case is nal
<ikonia> ?
<ikonia> well it's hosted by "nal" I didn't realise it was actually his box
<ikonia> I thought you could use "tell" to tell anything
<nalioth> Myrtti: it's an ubuntu community bot
<ikonia> didn't realise you had to give it a  a factoid bot
<nalioth> ikonia: no, just factoids
<ikonia> nalioth: yes, that was my view on it
<ikonia> nalioth: there goes the fun :(
<nalioth> now "i" can have it say anything  :P
<nalioth> but i don't.
<ikonia> and the fun comes back
<Myrtti> nomnomnom Salmiakki â¥
<jussi01> bleh
<Myrtti> jussi01: your bitlbee is still awol
<jussi01> err whut??
<Myrtti> absent without leave
<jussi01> I know...
 * Myrtti rolls her eyes
<Myrtti> meh, now I ate all my salmiakki
<PriceChild> Myrtti: ate?
<jussi01> PriceChild: you do know what salmiakki is...?
<jussi01> PriceChild: not salmiakki koskenkorva... :D
<Myrtti> salmiakkikossu is prepared from salmiakki and kossu
<Myrtti> salmiakki == ammonium chloride
<Myrtti> (and more or less licorice too)'
<jussi01> PriceChild: http://farm1.static.flickr.com/88/234041244_7815c027df.jpg?v=0
<Myrtti> nyomnyom
<LjL> some fool must have crashed into a level crossing
<LjL> or at least that's the only interpretation i can give to "*due to a car accident* at blah blah trains are delayed blah blah"
<LjL> at least mine wasn't
<Myrtti> *bwurp*
<nalioth> anybody get any weird spam within the past couple minutes?
<Myrtti> dumdidumdi
<ubottu> erUSUL called the ops in #ubuntu (tomecekd)
<Flare183> I think we might have a problem we the bots
<PriceChild> !test
<ubottu> sigh... again? I'm busy here, I already told you it failed.
<nalioth> PriceChild: don't worry about it, if he didnt hang around to enlighten us
<PriceChild> indeed, meh
<mneptok> ubottu: is your Jawa inhibitor securely fastened?
<ubottu> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<mneptok> i see that it is. eeeeeeeexcellent.
<jussi01> mneptok: !!!
<jussi01> be nice!!
<mneptok> jussi01!!!!!!OMG!!!!!WOOHAA!!!
 * jussi01 huggles ubottu
<mneptok> !unf
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about unf
<Myrtti> SAND PEOPLE!
<mneptok> ubottu: unf is <action>shakes it
<ubottu> In #ubuntu-ops, mneptok said: ubottu: unf is <action>shakes it
<Myrtti> *sigh*
<mneptok> errr ... i logged in, you moron.
<mneptok> damned faulty inhibitors.
<Myrtti> !scope | mneptok 
<ubottu> mneptok: We don't need factoids for *everything* ;)
<mneptok> someone added a factoid about not adding factoids. oh the irony.
<ubottu> Flare183 called the ops in #ubuntu (joe_)
 * Myrtti pinches mneptoks cheek
<mneptok> upper or lower?
 * Myrtti slaps
<Myrtti> I'll start using Gentoo if you tease me like that.
<Myrtti> or FreeBSD.
<jussi01> I just banned mattfury in #ubuntu, for a nazi reference 
<jussi01> someone might want to look at scrollback and tell me if I was too harsh
<PriceChild> i think he went in #freenode earlier
<PriceChild> he did indeedy, rape jokes
<PriceChild> i say 'jokes'...
<Myrtti> rape jokes?
<jussi01> right...
<Myrtti> where's my electric cattle herder?
<Myrtti> *prod*
<jussi01> ok, so It sounds like the right thing was done then...
<Myrtti> **ZZZZZZZZTTT*
<jussi01> ouch!! careful with that!!
<jussi01> :P
<mneptok> the only thing funny about rape is that whole "if you don't laugh at the human condition, and you have a conscience, you'll blow your brains out within 2 minutes on this planet" approach thingy.
<mneptok> *sigh* what's *wrong* with people?!
<mneptok> (laugh, Kurt, laugh. take the gun out of your mouth.)
<mneptok> someone tell me it's all gonna be OK in the end
 * jussi01 huggles mneptok
 * Myrtti gives mneptok a hug mug of tea
<Seeker`> hug mug?
<Myrtti> huge
<Myrtti> sorry, my laptop has these "creative pauses"
<jussi01> hehe
<mneptok> thanks. sometimes humanity *really* disappoints.
<ikonia> @btlogin
<ubottu> In #ubuntu-offtopic, aubade said: !trolls is <reply> "Confound these wretched rodents! For every one I fling away, a dozen more vex me!"
<ikonia> evening gents
<ikonia> and ladies
<LjL> is there network desynch?
<Pici> Is there?
<LjL> i don't know, the bots went all crazy earlier, and #ubuntu sort of looks wrong
<Pici> I just got here recently.
<LjL> messages being sent at distances that would require a world record typist
<Pici> Turns out, ssh and irssi don't work when the laptop is out of batteries
<Seeker`> eugh, my scroll + caps lock keys keep flashing whenever I try to get to X
<Seeker`> tried upgrading to intrepid, problem started, wont even boot off the intrepid install CD
<mneptok> Seeker`: tried xfix?
<ubottu> LjL called the ops in #ubuntu (some help here)
<tomaw> klined
<tomaw> LjL^
<Pici> ty
<Seeker`> mneptok: X just about starts, then everything freezes
<tomaw> There are some still trying to connect
<tomaw> look for bas? nicks
<mneptok> actually, RI has the same behavior. but all have "_-{Ruben}-_ clonner v1.0
<mneptok> as realname
<LjL> they'll hit -unregged
<mneptok> !staff
<ubottu> Hey nalioth, jenda, rob, SportChick, seanw, Dave2, Christel, tomaw, Gary, Vorian or PriceChild, I could  use a bit of your time :)
<mneptok> see above inputline, bitte
 * tomaw waves at mneptok 
<mneptok> heya tomaw 
<LjL> well spotted mneptok
<LjL> although you didn't spot tomaw
<mneptok> LjL: familiar trolls get a pass ;)
<tomaw> looks to be done with it now anyway
<mneptok> *smewch*
<tomaw> hah
<Seeker`> mneptok: any ideas?
<mneptok> Seeker`: did you try the "xfix" option from recovery mode?
<Seeker`> xfix?
<Seeker`> I get "command not found"
<mneptok> Seeker`: boot to recovery mode
<mneptok> Seeker`: you will then be presented with a menu of options. one of them is "xfix." run that, see wha'ppen.
<Seeker`> mneptok: I dont get a menu of options
<Seeker`> I just get a root command prompt
<LjL> you should get a menu with 8.04, but then maybe it doesn't happen on upgrades
<LjL> i've never personally seen that menu yet (never been in recovery mode in the past months either)
<Seeker`> its definately a kernel panic on starting X
<Seeker`> from the HDD or CD
<LjL> why does wiivile2's nickname, combined with his comcast host, remind me of someone?
<LjL> ah no it reminds me of wii, but the comcast host is unrelated really.
<LjL> now about to ban evade
<LjL> rejoined from rr.com
<LjL> [00:16:11] --> wiivile2 has joined this channel (n=john@adsl-70-130-174-252.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net).
<LjL> this fellow has got plenty of hosts
<LjL> (that was ##unavailable)
<LjL> [00:19:58] <LjL> eliviiw: i can read your stupid nickname backwards, and upside down.
<LjL> [00:19:58] <-- tobias has left this server (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
<LjL> [00:20:01] <MothOnLovesFlame> hspaans meet me in i2p then
<LjL> [00:20:05] *** LjL sets mode: +b *!*@adsl-70-130-174-252.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net
<LjL> i
<jussi01> LjL: bestbot is funny - see -bots now... :D
<LjL> i know :>
<LjL> !staff
<ubottu> Hey nalioth, jenda, rob, SportChick, seanw, Dave2, Christel, tomaw, Gary, Vorian or PriceChild, I could  use a bit of your time :)
<jussi01> what is it, troll day today?
<LjL> "vilewii" in #ubuntu, ban evading as you can see above - repeatedly - now appears to be messing with me
<LjL> by giving email addresses of mine in the channel (which aren't really mine but anyway)
<christel> like everyday pinky
<christel> LjL: (klined)
<christel> short expiry time mind
<LjL> sure, thanks. he'll probably be back from another host before you know it anyway
<christel> yeah, tends to be the case
<LjL> christel: he just has ;)
<LjL> vilewii1
<tomaw> not online
<LjL> sorry, vilewii111
<LjL> from cox.net this time
<Seeker`> I give up with these kernel panics, night
<tomaw> he's messaging you with crap so you know it's the same guy?
<LjL> tomaw: ... no, i know he's the same guy because he just said "<vilewii111> you think i cant change my host?" 
<LjL> also, his nicknames are anagrams of one another
<tomaw> Ah, he's not in any channels currently
<LjL> because i just banned him from #ubuntu
<tomaw> meh sorry
<tomaw> <-- slow this evening
<tomaw> he's gone
 * christel hands tomaw a garden gnome
<christel> (tis your prize)
<LjL> sorry i'm just being bitter because he's getting on my nerves
<LjL> will go smoke a cigarette instead of following his hostname changes
<christel> :)
<tomaw> pfft, you should give up
<LjL> @mark #ubuntu wiivile Known hosts used so far: *.pa.comcast.net c-24-11-171-94.hsd1.mi.comcast.net 129-60.200-68.tampabay.res.rr.com cpe-65-189-142-147.columbus.res.rr.com adsl-70-130-174-252.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net ip72-216-13-141.pn.at.cox.net - Nicknames changing, always an anagram/variation on "wiivile" - Ident & GECOS unpredictable - Hangs in -es, #macosx, #macdev, ##c - Mild troll when left alone
<ubottu> The operation succeeded.
<LjL> jrib, and you're even "helping" him meh
 * jrib lacks LjL's esp
<ubottu> In #ubuntu-bots, nubotu said: ubottu: Ubuntu is a complete Linux-based operating system, freely available with both community and professional support. It is developed by a large community and we invite you to participate too! - Also see http://www.ubuntu.com
#ubuntu-ops 2008-10-28
<ubottu> In #ubuntu-offtopic, aubade said: !trolls is <reply> "Confound these wretched rodents! For every one I fling away, a dozen more vex me!"
<ubottu> In #ubuntu-offtopic, wobblywu said: !forget ljl-#ubuntu-offtopic
<stdin> LjL: the bot's "ubottu" ;)
<LjL> really only because you didn't request ubotu dropped when it was expired
<stdin> I thought seveas owns it
<LjL> he also let it expire. then he realized.
<stdin> but I was saying because of your "(..., see the private message from Ubotu)"
<LjL> i know
<LjL> that will change to the right nickname when the bot will stop echoing it :P
<stdin> it didn't before because it was checking for it's nick
<stdin> now it should check for ubotu as well though
<LjL> stdin: ah, you could have said that, i'd have changed it ;P
<stdin> you're probably not the only one with "ubotu" in an alias somewhere
<mneptok> faster pussycat! thrill, thrill! I'M AT THE MALL ON A DIET PILL!
<Flannel> uh
<mneptok> (B-52's "Funplex") :)
<nalioth> filthy little ********s
<mneptok> ?
<mneptok> (i have no idea what you refer to, but your dirty talk turns me on, regardless)
<LjL> mneptok: after what you just said, you should be the last one questioning random blurts
<mneptok> LjL: i like playing pots and kettles
<nalioth> bot swarm with exploits
 * Flannel calls LjL stainless steel.
<LjL> nalioth: swarm? it was two people
<nalioth> LjL: my kline caught quite a few more than two
<Flannel> nalioth: you don't know your own strength!
<LjL> nalioth: then ad's bot was underestimating i guess
<MTecknology> Is there any way for me to get some configs from ubottu? I'm trying to use some of its plugins for my own supybot setup but I'm not having a fun time figuring them out.
<Flannel> MTecknology: The supybot website has a good deal of information, tutorials, etc.
<Flannel> MTecknology: However the website looks to be down at the moment.
<MTecknology> Flannel: They lost their hosting for it
<mneptok> classy
<MTecknology> I meant values like this though - supybot.plugins.Webcal.url
<Flannel> MTecknology: that's plugin specific, etc.  Also, plugins are fairly well self documented.
<Flannel> MTecknology: however, this is offtopic for this channel.
<MTecknology> sorry - I'll get off
<mneptok> bad mental image
<ubottu> FloodBot3 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit)
<ubottu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit)
<bazhang_> johnsons (n=notem@c-68-63-86-122.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) has joined #ubuntu  <--the culprit
<MTecknology> Care if I ask something about ubottu?
<MTecknology> I'm trying to use the PackageInfo plugin that ubottu uses. I keep getting an error thrown at me and I'm sure it's because of the supybot.plugins.PackageInfo.aptdir setting, but I don't know what to set it too or if there's something else I need to do
<stdin> MTecknology: I haven't had time to update the README.txt files yet. but the PackageInfo plugin was split from the Encyclopedia plugin. so the setup instructions will be in Encyclopedia/README.txt
<MTecknology> Thanks :) I'll read that
<MTecknology> stdin: You're in -offtopic - is it ok to bug you there if I have issues?
<stdin> MTecknology: I'm in -bots too
<MTecknology> ok
<MTecknology> I'll buzz out of here tehn
<ubottu> FloodBot2 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit)
<ubottu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit)
<ubottu> FloodBot3 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit)
<bazhang_> hoberry (n=unos@user-12ld066.cable.mindspring.com) has joined #ubuntu <-- he quit before I could remove him
<bazhang_> mudkip ban evading
<bazhang_> and again as theo5
<bazhang_> [theo5] (n=lol@75.47.68.238): lol  [mudkip] (n=mudkip@71.238.203.238): mudkip [mudkip] (n=mudkip@c-68-51-70-177.hsd1.in.comcast.net): mudkip
<bazhang_> he is PM'ing users as well, without their consent
<bazhang_> chilicheez> can someone target an IP of a user running ubunto and redirect them to a server with malware installs?
<bazhang_> [paranoidix] (n=chili@208-106-93-228.dynamic.sn.garlic.net): chili
<bazhang_> very offtopic-y today.
<bazhang_> have to head out to work, back later.
<Myrtti> would anyone happen to know where I can find the *right* version of the hardy source cd?
<Myrtti> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/hardy/daily/current/source/ <-- doesn't seem to be the right one compared to the intrepid one
<stdin> Myrtti: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/hardy/release/source/
<Myrtti> stdin: thanks
<jussi01> Yay for free crossover office :D
<jussi01> (as in beer anyway...)
<ikonia> what are you using with it
<jussi01> hrm, havent decided that yet, but Im sure I can find something. :P
<ikonia> ha
<jussi01> nah, its going to be more useful for my wifes mac
<bazhang_> @login
<ubottu> Error: Your hostmask doesn't match or your password is wrong.
<bazhang> @login
<ubottu> The operation succeeded.
<bazhang> @bansearch kiosk
<ubottu> No matches found for kiosk!*@* in any channel
<ubottu> ardchoille called the ops in #kubuntu ()
<Pici> stdin: thanks.  I fat-fingered the command.
<bazhang> hehe
<Pici> /csmod selim != /csmute selim
<stdin> heh
 * Pici sighs
<elkbuntu> now mr eire is trolling
<ikonia> concur
<Hobbsee> everyone ready for release?
<ikonia> no
<Hobbsee> oh dear
<ikonia> I'm seeding the rc though
<ikonia> so I'm almost ready
<Hobbsee> was wondering when #u-r-p and such will open, as +1 is likely to go nuts soon
<elkbuntu> Hobbsee, at the first sign of it's need, usually
<bazhang> fix my ubuntu or I go back to windows
<Hobbsee> bazhang: you forgot "OMGNOW"
<bazhang> Hobbsee, hehe
<Hobbsee> bazhang: and "UBUNTU SUCKS!!!eleventyone!!!"
<elkbuntu> heh
<Hobbsee> silly me, i didn't think to check if it was already open
<Myrtti> is it release day already?
<Pici> Nope
<Hobbsee> no, the 30th, if all goes to plan
<Myrtti> oh right
<Myrtti> if it were on 31st, I'd be blissfully ignorant this time :->
<elkbuntu> heh
<LjL> jrib: i'm not sure the fellow isn't a troll
<LjL> he's behaved weird in the past as far as i can see, and
<LjL> ljlhead:/home/bots/.muh# tail -1000000 \#ubuntu.log | grep Ujjw | grep "is now" [07:13] *** Ujjwol is now known as GNU [07:57] *** Ujjwol is now known as GNUBoi [16:00] *** Ujjwol is now known as GNUNIX [15:20] *** Ujjwol is now known as Prachanda [18:36] *** Ujjwol is now known as Anandhi [13:00] *** Ujjwol is now known as Linus [14:11] *** Ujjwol is now known as GNUBoi [13:08] *** Ujjwol is now known as EME [10:26] *** Ujjwol is now known as Anurag [12:
<LjL> 38] *** Ujjwol is now known as GOOGLer [14:34] *** Ujjwol is now known as GNuBoi
<jrib> hrmm
<LjL> jrib: he's in #fedora asking how to run in level 3
 * Pici wonders if hes even running Ubuntu
<LjL> Pici: did you whois or did you actually recognize it?
<Pici> LjL: Whois.
<LjL> "now i have to go"
<LjL> yeah sure
<LjL> just after i give you a bogus command that has to output something
<Pici> How pleasant.
<LjL> also, he's left #ubuntu AND #fedora, but immediately rejoined #feora
<LjL> and he's still talking there
<LjL> troll.
<jrib> yeah
<ikonia> .wgius GNuBoi
<LjL> ikonia: parallax error, try with an SLR
 * ikonia enables warp drive
<ikonia> I was meant to ask "who, gnuboi"
<LjL> ikonia: you know what's scary... as soon as i saw that typo, being the nerdish irc mind that i am, i immediately though "yay, now i know he must be either british or american"
<LjL> except of course i know that already
<ikonia> very nerdy 
<LjL> ikonia: not as nerdy as thinking (only thinking - i never actually *do* stuff) of writing scripts that would parse logs and use such clues automatically to determine someone's nationality
 * ikonia backs away slowly from ljl
<LjL> ikonia: you just think you're backing away - that's actually a mirror.
<ikonia> ha ha, 
<jrib> "6 months release scheduele proving to be rapid yet again."    erm?
<LjL> jrib: hm?
<genii> Good morning, afternoon, or evening
<elkbuntu> you're doing it wrong
<elkbuntu> it's 'Good $timeofday'
<ikonia> ddate
<ikonia> good `ddate`
<LjL> no
<elkbuntu> ikonia, rofl, why did i not know about that before. that rocks
 * ikonia rocks
<elkbuntu> not scissors or paper?
<ikonia> no, rock always wins
<LjL> it's (in pseudocode) foreach /ctcp #ubuntu-ops TIME { if TIME < 0 then "/msg NICK good morning" else if TIME > 12 then "/msg NICK good afternoon" else if TIME > 17 then "/msg NICK good evening" else if TIME > 20 then "/msg NICK good night" }
<elkbuntu> haha
<elkbuntu> LjL, i suggest testing it in #ubuntu for best results
<LjL> elkbuntu: can't, my bot would ban me
<ikonia> ~
<elkbuntu> LjL, try #freenode then, and your bot would be the least of your worries
<LjL> heh
<LjL> can't, my bot would get "banned"
<elkbuntu> lol
<ubottu> murlidhar called the ops in #ubuntu-offtopic ()
<jrib> so, what's the current max in #ubuntu?
<LjL> jrib: you mean users count?
<jrib> LjL: yeah
<LjL> i can check the floodbots' logs although i've removed the older ones because i needed space
<genii> I think I have now 7 or 8 suggestions of time-independant greeting methods... ;)
<LjL> jrib: 1463, but that's just since the 26th
<LjL> jrib: have 1480 in the gzipped log
<LjL> but the all-time max, by memory, is ~1600
<elkbuntu> which i suspect will be shattered this time
<LjL> elkbuntu: dunno, the previous releases have seen a decline
<LjL> although this time we already have a lot of users in the channel
<LjL> (which is weird - we have many users but the traffic seems to be less than it used to)
<LjL> so yeah going over 1600 should be easy
<elkbuntu> we'll get 300 on the day easy as pie
<LjL> i propose we redirect everyone to -proxy-users
<elkbuntu> lol
<ikonia> didn't it hit 2200 for 8.04 ?
<LjL> those who can read what the bot tells to them, can join
<LjL> those who can't... too bad
<elkbuntu> ikonia, check your logs and tell us
<LjL> or for that matter, we could just make them answer a random sum or multiplication to join
<ikonia> cleared mine down
<elkbuntu> i'll check mine
<Pici> Peak for #ubuntu@freenode: 1714 (Thu Apr 24 15:07:10 2008)
<elkbuntu> how did you check that?
<ikonia> pici is a god
<LjL> ikonia: anything can happen but 2200 sounds a bit too much from what i remember
<Pici> elkbuntu: chanpeak.pl for irssi
<LjL> elkbuntu, irssi does that
<elkbuntu> nice
<ikonia> LjL: it soudned high to me, but I remember it having a "high" day 
<LjL> see for instance
<LjL> [14:23:50] --> dangduc has joined this channel (i=7b11b59c@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-63d6eb222b295186).
<elkbuntu> ikonia, it was probably one of the guestimates
<LjL> [14:23:57] <FloodBot1> dangduc: Try again joining #ubuntu, you've been granted temporary access from your web gateway. Don't leave this channel until you've joined! (Also, on some browsers it may take up to a minute or more to sync to #ubuntu, so please be patient for a while before killing the browser and trying again)
<LjL> [14:27:25] <dangduc> hi ! GÃºy
<LjL> [14:27:33] <dangduc> Hi ! Guy
<LjL> [14:27:33] <dangduc> 03
<LjL> it's a good filter isn't it
<elkbuntu> heh
<elkbuntu> here's hoping mibbit dies on the day
<elkbuntu> anyway, bedtime. night
<ikonia> night
<Pici> Goodnight
<LjL> good afternoon
<maniheer> hello
<maniheer> :)
<LjL> good day
<Myrtti> so, feel free to open up your mouth on the issue of "I want to have 'Happy Diwali' in the #ubuntu-offtopic topic"
<maniheer> can we have "Happy Diwali" in the topic
<Myrtti> and everything related
<ikonia> maniheer you've been told 4 times no
<maniheer> I was told not to discuss it
<ikonia> maniheer correct
<maniheer> so I came to this channel
<maniheer> because of Myrtti's request
<ikonia> and asked again and the answer was "no"
<Myrtti> maniheer: there is a cultural celebration of $culture every day in the world. If we'd put "Happy Diwali" in the topic now, we'd have to be changing the topic every hour (because of the timezones) and every day.
<maniheer> but does anyone ever request it?
<LjL> by the way, don't forget it's the LjL Worshipping Day tomorrow
<ikonia> LjL how could I forget....
<maniheer> i'm busy tommorow
<maniheer> tommorow's the worst day of my life
<maniheer> i've got to do my HW
<maniheer> AAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH
<maniheer> sorry
<Tm_T> ok
<Myrtti> maniheer: I'm sure they would after we'd be forced to explain a) why there's "Happy Diwali" in the topic b) what is Diwali c) told it got on the topic because someone requested
<Myrtti> so we're denying the requests
<Myrtti> no, you can't have "Happy Diwali" in the topic
<Myrtti> and no, you can not have a pony.
<Myrtti> no ponies.
<Myrtti> Sorry.
<maniheer> a)idiot requested it b)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diwali c)he was an idiot
<Tm_T> maniheer: we said no
<Tm_T> but thanks for offering those answers
<Myrtti> no ponies for you. I'm terribly sorry.
 * maniheer eventually got thundered
<maniheer> again
<maniheer> bye anyway
<ikonia> what the heck is ##ubuntu-ontopic ?
<Myrtti> whut?
<LjL> ikonia: one of the very many spinoffs of -offtopic that idiots do
<Myrtti> KILL IT.
<LjL> can't, ##
<LjL> i killed it when it was called #ubuntu-ontopic
<Dave2> .win 336
<ikonia> another random channel 
<Myrtti> Dave2: fail 1
<Dave2> indeed :(
<LjL> ignoring them usually works
<Dave2> Well, a lot more than 1.
<ikonia> not going in there
<LjL> ikonia: how did you find out about it anyway?
<ikonia> someone sent me a pm asking for support and the auto whois listed them as in there
<LjL> [15:45:51] <BigBear> what did i do? [15:46:00] <LjL> ban evasion [15:46:05] <BigBear> no. [15:46:29] <BigBear> i dont recall getting banned in ubuntu+1 [15:46:37] <LjL> well, you are. [15:46:53] <BigBear> prove that i was banned [15:47:08] <LjL> i don't have to prove anything. i think i already told you you're not welcome on any ubuntu channel. [15:47:19] <BigBear> its not up to you [15:47:22] <LjL> yes it is. [15:47:26] <BigBear> your not a freenode 
<LjL> staffer
<ikonia> LjL: where was that
<LjL> in my pm
<LjL> he's now joining #freenode
<ikonia> so he just started pm'ing you randomly about it ???
<LjL> ikonia: no, i banned him from #ubuntu+1 as soon as i saw him joining (he was already banned under another ident)
<LjL> this is john_nel
<ikonia> @btlogin
<LjL> /msg ubottu @mark #ubuntu+1 BigBear <BigBear> what did i do? <LjL> ban evasion  <BigBear> no. <BigBear> i dont recall getting banned in ubuntu+1 <LjL> well, you are. <BigBear> prove that i was banned <LjL> i don't have to prove anything. i think i already told you you're not welcome on any ubuntu channel. <BigBear> its not up to you <LjL> yes it is. <BigBear> your not a freenode staffer
<LjL> meh
<ikonia> ahh I see the many bans
<ikonia> and many nicks
<LjL> many many nicks
<LjL> ikonia: also, when he was GasFurnace (hobbsee, remember?), he went berserk and did !ops and other nasty stuff in about all ubuntu channels, to retaliate for the bans
<LjL> so he's just not welcome. anywhere.
<ikonia> fair enough
 * genii puts on a pot of coffee
 * Myrtti wants to punch someone in the face
 * Myrtti looks around
 * ikonia smiles at Myrtti 
<genii> Myrtti: Moin
<Myrtti> genii: moin
<Tm_T> Myrtti: me?
<Myrtti> no, I love you too much
<bazhang> someone in this channel?
<Pici> no
<bazhang> wow you can read minds
<ikonia> pici knows no limits
<bazhang> true that
<Myrtti> I'll just resist the urge.
<Myrtti> I'm all talk and no action
<Myrtti> I'm too nice to be really violent.
 * Pici wonders if we should start shoveling people into u-r-p
<LjL> nah
 * ikonia wonders if we should shovel people into efnet
<bazhang> hehe
<bazhang> especially paddy
<ikonia> who's USA based in here ?
<jussi01> not i
<jussi01> genii:  is in canada iirc
<ikonia> canda is no good to me, USA only
<bazhang> y?
<Myrtti> Pici and Flannel for starters
<ikonia> I've got a n unsual request, for a "bag" that can only be shipped to the USA, and I'm looking for someone to ship it on to me
<jussi01> ikonia: ahh, buying something :D
<ikonia> yes
<ikonia> I really unique bag (maybe two if someones willing to help) but it's a real drag as the company won't ship outside the USA, and the traders offering to ship them are dodgy as it gets
<ikonia> they have a special design / padding that would make life a lot easier for me
<ikonia> bit of a long shot but it doesn't hurt to ask 
<genii> ikonia: You could also use a remailing service, there are quite a few of them around
<ikonia> genii: the few i've tried on this want you to be usa based to set them up, and incase are being a bit of an issue with using my credit card to ship to an alternative address
<genii> Ah, OK
<ikonia> the company is 2incase"
<ikonia> "incase"
<genii> Is irc.ubuntu.com just a synonym for #ubuntu on irc.freenode.net ?
<ikonia> yup
<ikonia> cname for irc.freenode.net
<genii> Thanks
<Myrtti> meh.
<Pici> mwah
<Pici> That was an unproductive meeting
<bazhang> qdii in #u
<ubottu> FloodBot2 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit)
<nalioth> la la la
<Pici> Nice to see less people getting affected by those.
<LjjjL> was it a ctcp?
<Pici> no.
<LjjjL> then it's normal few people are affected
<Pici> Only 1 person affected.
<nalioth> two, actually  :D
<nalioth> but we won't count the troll
<Pici> Well, one victim.
 * genii puts on another pot of coffee
 * Myrtti still wants to punch someone in the face
<genii> Myrtti: Every time I mention coffee you're getting violent
<genii> I might have to switch to tea or so...
<Myrtti> it's not you, my dear
 * Myrtti sips apple soda
<genii> Myrtti: Just a frustrating day then i suppose
<Myrtti> very
<Pici> I spent most of my day trying to train someone who just started.
<Pici> I've barely made any impact on the work that I need to get done.
<Myrtti> I got bitched at and decided I wont be asking for a raise. Also some people have disappointed me by being gits.
<Myrtti> but other than that, productive day for a while
<Myrtti> just depressing too.
<Myrtti> also, Jaiku is broken.
<PriceChild> I hada  great day at work.
<Pici> Well good for you
<Myrtti> !yay | PriceChild 
<ubottu> PriceChild: Glad you made it! :-)
<genii> Myrtti: At least you still have a sense of humour 
<PriceChild> just thought i'd throw that in there :P
<Myrtti> yeah, if dry sarcastic kind can be counted as one
<PriceChild> although i did arrive 45 mins early due to no traffic... and got stuck around M5/6 on way home due to lots of traffic and snow, so a mixed day.
<Pici> Myrtti: I hope it can.
<PriceChild> is -r-p in any topics yet?
<Myrtti> damn, I'm just so sad and angry again I have to censor myself not to say things.
 * Myrtti goes away and fades into the background
<Pici> PriceChild: I don't believe so.
<Pici> Myrtti: Don't fade too far
<Myrtti> I just might, I don't feel I have anything to give to the community and society right now.
<Myrtti> nothing productive atleast.
<Pici> Nothing wrong with being non-produtive.
<Myrtti> I know I could easily be counter-productive, so I'll just shut up.
<Myrtti> currently my mind has lots of curse words and violence in it, and some of it could be unleashed here... so yeah, better just ... back away.
<genii> Pici: I think he means phonetically "a new buntu install" doesn't sound quite correct
<genii> Bah wrong channel
<Pici> Is it just me, or does #ubuntu already seem like its getting busy
<jussi01> just you...
<Flannel> Pici: It's been busy, yes.  Numbers aren't up per sey (1400) but theres more activity from those numbers.
<Myrtti> [22:30] ~~~binyah [n=binyah@c-71-225-234-84.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined  #ubuntu-offtopic
<Myrtti> [22:32] ~~~binyah is now known as Lorenzo_Lucchini
<Myrtti> that's...
<Myrtti> interesting
<LjL> oh fuck
<LjL> that's wiivile
<jussi01> !ohmy | LjL
<ubottu> LjL: Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family friendly.
<jussi01> :P
<LjL> now from cox... next will be rr.com
<LjL> i think BABYA is him but can't be sure
<LjL> oh, now i'm sure.
<LjL> BigBear (john_nel) is joining stuff again
<ikonia> ljl would you like me to remove him from ubuntu-server
<ikonia> to be inline with the rest of the bans ?
<ikonia> ahh PriceChild has him in pm, never mind
<LjL> ikonia: same for me as long as he doesn't actually troll
<LjL> he appears to be leaving the rest of the channels he's in anyway
<ikonia> well, the ubuntu ones
<LjL> sure i meant that
<ikonia> PriceChild is striking a deal ;)
 * ikonia offers pricedchild lehman brothers
<PriceChild> He says he's off.
<LjL> and i'm mother teresa
 * ikonia offers pricechild zimbawi
<ikonia> broker that !
<PriceChild> I'm still lost.
 * ikonia points towards the light
<Myrtti> meh, my blood pressure started to soar again
<nalioth> go pet your cavies  :)
 * Seeker` imagines Dr Evil asking zimbabwe for 1 billion dollars before they took 11 0's off their currency
<LjL> PriceChild: what the hell did you tell him, that he can solve everything and not notice his bans if he has me on ignore? :o
<PriceChild> LjL: he's also reading these channel logs ;)
<LjL> PriceChild: is he?
<PriceChild> mmhm
<PriceChild> Not much went on in our PM.
<LjL> @mark #ubuntu-ops BigBear So he's checking the logs. Say hi to him. What's your next nickname? Come up with something fancy, please.
 * Seeker` wonders how many people read the logs 
<ubottu> The operation succeeded.
<ikonia> hello bigbear
<Myrtti> *sigh*
<ikonia> the kernel update breaking nvidia.com drivers is getting annoying
<ikonia> envy should be dropped
<Seeker`> ikonia: which kernel?
<Seeker`> does it affect non-envy systems?
<ikonia> no
<ikonia> just specific nvidia.com driver versions
<Myrtti> *sigh*
<Myrtti> eh?
<LjL> the revolt of the bots
<Myrtti> wth
<LjL> i dunno
<LjL> nalioth, please make one of yours join #ubuntu?
<Myrtti> that was fast
#ubuntu-ops 2008-10-29
<Myrtti> woooooo sleepybyes
<mneptok> nini!
<LjL> nalioth: #k too please?
<nalioth> ubottu is returning
<mneptok> as was foretold in Leviticus
<tritium> mneptok: we miss you in #ubuntu-us-nm
<mneptok> oh! sorry, not in my auto-join
<tritium> ;)
<genii> New Mexico?
<tritium> Yes.
<genii> Ah
<tritium> You're always welcome to drop in and say hello.
<mneptok> it's like Old Mexico, but newer.
<mneptok> or ... something.
<Pici> Low in saturated fat?
<mneptok> not just good, but good for you.
<nalioth> tritium: one would have thought your Indians had finally succeeded in getting rid of the malevolent spirit . .
 * nalioth runs
 * tritium ponders the meaning of that cryptic phrase
<nalioth> tritium: you're inviting the 'malevolent spirit' back
<nalioth> nothing cryptic about it - mneptok knows who he is
<tritium> aww, poor mneptok
<tritium> nalioth: one of these days you'll have to find your way over here.  We're just one state away.
<tritium> Pici: no, the food is rather high in both fat and cholesterol.
 * genii wonders if #ubuntu-ca-on exists
<tritium> genii: You're in Ontario?
<genii> tritium: Yuppers
<mneptok> genii: close to QC?
<genii> Darn, I'm the only one in that channel :/
<nalioth> tritium: yeah, wouldn't be a problem if we were Yankees
<tritium> One of my old college roommates is from Windsor.
<nalioth> unfortunately, there's 1000 miles 'tween us  :P
<genii> mneptok: Nah, in Toronto
<tritium> nalioth: indeed
<mneptok> genii: ach so. was wondering if you might attend the Montreal release party
<genii> mneptok: ?On Halloween
<mneptok> genii: no, Thursday @ 1800
<genii> mneptok: It would be impossible, I finish work at 1700 and the drive is much longer than anhour from Toronto to Montreal
<mneptok> yes it is
<mneptok> i'd say fly, but Air Canada is prolly slower than driving
<genii> Hehe, yeah
<mneptok> and would charge you for a seat cushion, breathable air, and toilet paper
<genii> And seatbelt
<mneptok> (worst airlaine *evar*)
<mneptok> -a
<genii> I go WestJet when possible
<tritium> I'm trying to remember the coffee chain up there in Ontario.  They thought they were lacing the coffee with nicotine to get the patrons addicted...
<genii> StarBucks ?
<tritium> No.
<mneptok> Tim Horton's?
<tritium> Yes!
 * genii starts craving a Tim Horton's coffee
<tritium> It must be the nicotine!
<genii> It's just good coffee :)
<tritium> I know :)
<mneptok> if you want *real* culture shock, when i was in Tokyo i saw a Krispy Kreme
<mneptok> it just seemed so ... wrong.
<mneptok> i wonder if they serve raw eel filled glazed donuts ....
<jrib> mm
<genii> Bleh
<genii> mneptok: So you're from NM living in QC now?
<nalioth> genii: he's from the 3d ring of Hades, actually ( don't let him fool you ).
<genii> nalioth: Thanks for the heads-up
<tritium> genii: he came here to visit, checking out the area as a possible place to relocate
<Jordan_U> Probable troll in #ubuntu, "<gobuntu> is there anybody knows about LUNIX?"
<genii> No, lunix exists
<genii> It is a small *nix for C64 platform however and not related much to *buntus
<mneptok> genii: no, from east coast US and now in QC via 6 years in Portland, OR
<Jordan_U> Ah, I had heard "lunix" in a joke mocking linux
<genii> Jordan_U: Well, maybe is a troll :) 
<genii> mneptok: I'm mostly an Ontario boy, travelled quite a lot in the US late 80s but been here in Toronto now since 91
<mneptok> genii: CT, NY, DC, OR etc etc
<genii> Connecticut is nice
<mneptok> was basically raised there
<mneptok> (Hartford suburbs)
<genii> Cool
<mneptok> Hartford is not so nice. New Haven is far nicer.
<mneptok> (lived there, too) :)
<genii> I liked the country there
<genii> Fairfield, etc
<mneptok> 'spensive, though
<genii> Yes. I guess sort of like being a tourist at Marthas Vineyard or so
<mneptok> i'd rather be a guest of one of the super rich ;)
 * mneptok closes up shop and heads home
<genii> Wherever that is ;)
<nalioth> genii: an enclave for the very rich on the coast of Massachusetts
<nalioth> genii: you should get out more  :P
<genii> hehe
<genii> Getting out more would cut into my computer time...
<tritium> Buenas noches, amigos!
<nalioth> night, tritium 
<tritium> Good night, nalioth.
<Tm_T> SWAT___: hi
<Tm_T> Jordan_U: something else we can help you with?
<Flannel> !intrepid
<ubottu> Intrepid Ibex is the code name for Ubuntu 8.10, due October 30th, 2008 - WARNING: lots of broken software between now and October 30th! - Use #ubuntu+1 for support, NOT #ubuntu
<Flannel> We ought to add something for -release-party, yes?
<ubottu> In #ubuntu-offtopic, J-_ said: !ted is <reply> Inspired talks by the world's greatest thinkers and doers. Ideas worth spreading. http://www.ted.com/
<ubottu> In #ubuntu-offtopic, AtomicSpark said: !AtomicSpark is <reply> has access to ubottu
<ubottu> In #ubuntu-offtopic, BruteSource said: !brutesource is <reply> a command line warrior
<Flannel> AtomicSpark: Can we help you?
<AtomicSpark> Please ignore my ubottu request, for I knows not what I do. :P
<Flannel> Or, rather, How can we help you?
<AtomicSpark> Flannel: I had to say sorry. :(
<Flannel> AtomicSpark: sounds good.
<Flannel> Anyone awake with -ot?
<jussi01> elkbuntu: nalioth PriceChild LjL-Temp: can we just give Flannel ops in -ot? Please? 
<jussi01> this happens too often...
<Tm_T> jussi01: I had same problem few years ago
<Tm_T> then I thought, meh, why bother anymore (;)
<ubottu> snuxoll called the ops in #ubuntu-offtopic (BruteSource)
<jussi01> Morning elkbuntu
<elkbuntu> evening
<jussi01> elkbuntu: any chance you will be in or near melbourne in the next few weeks?
 * jussi01 is coming home!!!
<Tm_T> jussi01: <3
<Tm_T> jussi01: remember to hug people for me
<jussi01> Ill be in melbourne area from about the 12thId say
<jussi01> Tm_T: :D
<Tm_T> and no I'm not joking
<jussi01> Tm_T: if I get time so see any of them. 
<Tm_T> thanks son
<elkbuntu> jussi01, nope :(
 * elkbuntu whimpers
<Tm_T> brrrrh
<Tm_T> so who's coming to see our new baby in a few weeks?
<jussi01> Tm_T: wont be here :(
<Tm_T> jussi01: chicken
<Tm_T>  (;)
<jussi01> heh
<Myrtti> hello kids
 * Tm_T huggggles Myrtti 
<SWAT> Tm_T: hi, anything I can do for you?
<Tm_T> SWAT: hug me?
<juliux> hey SWAT 
<SWAT> juliux: hey, long time no see
<Tm_T> long time no jazz
<SWAT> Tm_T: maybe next time ;)
<Tm_T> bah
<ubottu> snuxoll called the ops in #ubuntu-offtopic (gentoon (ban evading))
<Tm_T> elkbuntu: ^
<Flannel> jussi01: thanks for fixing that.
<jussi01> Flannel: fixing what?
<elkbuntu> it's a game of whack-a-mole
<Flannel> jussi01: the echoing here bit?  Maybe you didn't fix it.
<Flannel> but, someone did.
<elkbuntu> shell providers ought to play with barbies instead.
<jussi01> Flannel: ahh, yeah I chatted to stdin about it and he got it fixed
<Myrtti> elkbuntu: FREE shell providers
<elkbuntu> Myrtti, yes, that's what i meant
<Tm_T> hug me?
<elkbuntu> although, you can get irc shells for like $2, that's basically free.
<jussi01> elkbuntu: not really if you have no way to pay, a la 13 year olds...
<Tm_T> elkbuntu: you can get those free from friends too
<elkbuntu> now i have pms
 * Tm_T huggles elkbuntu 
 * Tm_T is sad, noone is hugging 'em
 * Gary hugs Tm_T 
 * jussi01 sends Gary flowers
<Gary> woo
<jussi01> :D
<Tm_T> <3
<jussi01> Gary: in which part of the UK are you located?
 * Myrtti huggles elkbuntu
 * jussi01 should try organise to see some people while he is there...
<elkbuntu> jussi01, come to sydney :Ã
<Gary> jussi01: at the mo, home is in Colchester, Essex, but I work near Nottingham
<Gary> which sucks
<jussi01> elkbuntu: hehe, maybe, Im checking things out
<Myrtti> everyone is West Midlands based
<jussi01> Gary: Ill be visiting Manchester, Liverpool and london most likely
<Gary> essex is just a bit north (and east) of London
<jussi01> ok. on the train line from manchester?
<Gary> nope
<jussi01> :(
<Gary> nottingham is nearish to manchester
<Gary> by nearish, it is 1.5 hours drive away
<juliux> SWAT: next ubucon will be in ocotber 2009 ;)
<jussi01> Gary: well then, you can comepick me up then :D
<Tm_T> Gary: which Nottingham?
<Gary> Tm_T: there is more than one?
<Tm_T> Gary: sure there is
<Tm_T> Gary: but glad we all know what we are talking about, Nottinghamshire that is
<Gary> home of robin hood
<Tm_T> which one?
<Myrtti> and the football club
<Tm_T> Myrtti: every british town is
<Myrtti> well, yes
<Tm_T> Gary: because there's several sources of that legend (:)
<Myrtti> but Nottingham has a football club even *I* have heard of.
<Tm_T> heh
<Tm_T> Myrtti: how'bout 'pool?
<Gary> Tm_T: the real source, there is only one robin hood :p
<Tm_T> Gary: there's one modern legend yes, but on the early years there were multiple sources
<Tm_T> Gary: like any historical tale, it has many sources in its history
<Gary> lies
<Gary> :p
<Tm_T> I wish it would be lies, but...
 * Tm_T sometimes hates the complexity of life
<Gary> t'is simple really, you get born, pay taxes, then die
<Tm_T> taxes? no, I get paid (:)
<Gary> the other stuff is there just for entertainment purposes
<Tm_T> I have got more tax refund than paid taxes in last two years
<elkbuntu> i'm still being harrassed by this user. i'm going to send him here, he's going to cry bull. you might want to stop your personal discussions so i can do this
<Tm_T> elkbuntu: sounds perfect
<elkbuntu> Myrtti, you're the only other active -ops op. do you want to have the challenger try explain why entering with 'who's the genius' isnt trolling?
<Myrtti> elkbuntu: go ahead
<Myrtti> sure
<elkbuntu> he refuses to come here. wants an active op in PM
<Gary> elkbuntu: what user?  and what channel did it start in?
<Flannel> Oh,hey.  People are awake.  We ought to update !intrepid to get rid of broken software bit, and add in -release-party, yes?
<elkbuntu> he wants to enter because he's banned, not because he wants to be there
<Myrtti> well, I'm trying to work atm, I'd rather have him here where someone else can listen to him if I have to "run" (not that much that I can run while in my bed, but anyway)
<elkbuntu> aside from, you know, harrassing users.
<elkbuntu> Gary, gentoon. the one with the bshellz hostmask. the one who came in to challenge someone who disagreed with his friend bruteforce
<Gary> the android one
<elkbuntu> Gary, oh, and it was -offtopic
<elkbuntu> yes.
<elkbuntu> apparantly i cant justify a single rule he broke. he refutes trolling. apparantly it's his right to come in swinging for a fight, etc.
<elkbuntu> i even offered to unban if he'd not return to the same behaviour, and he said he would because he could
<Gary> so he said he would return to being a troll, because he can?
<Myrtti> revelation: after waking up, but before getting up from the bed, it's really uncomfortable to work in bed with the laptop on your lap.
<Gary> thats enough to tell him the ban stands...
<elkbuntu> Gary, not those exact words, but yes.
<elkbuntu> Myrtti, is he still going on?
<Myrtti> just now started
<ikonia> elkbuntu that would be me who disagreed with bruteforce
<elkbuntu> ikonia, you genius, you.
<Gary> elkbuntu: did you know your halo is showing in -orftopic
<ikonia> he was trying to get cross-compiled toolchain support for an embedded device in ubuntu and had a REAL attitude problem
<ikonia> I think I've still got the delightful pm's he sent me
<Gary> I save those and print them out :-)
<ikonia> elkbuntu: who is the user ?
<elkbuntu> ikonia, it's plausible the gentoon isnt bruteforce, but he's only there for a fight, not quite the kind of person we want there.
<elkbuntu> ^^
<ikonia> where is he (sorry I only picked up half the conversation)
<ikonia> ahh ok this is in pm
<Flannel> This is about brutesource?  note what he said in #u about an hour ago.
<ikonia> brutesource or brutefrce
<ikonia> the user I delt with was BruteFrce
<Myrtti> I was planning to have a shower...
<Myrtti> meh.
<Flannel> I only see BruteSource as a brute*
<elkbuntu> in various PMs
<Flannel> was it misspelled?
<elkbuntu> ikonia, <gentoon> so who is the genius saying that you can't go eeper than the application stack on android which is completely open, since you have root?
<ikonia> elkbuntu: no-one discussed that, it looks like the same guy - but the user BruteFrce came in a few days agao and hasseld for instructions on how to cross-compile a mips toolchain
<elkbuntu> ikonia, he returned tonight
<ikonia> the mips toolchain was for a "phone" he was working on, he had no idea what he was doing
<ikonia> I should have banned him at the time for his attitude - sorry
<ikonia> elkbuntu: he's not in the ubuntu logs as BruteFrce
<Tm_T> Myrtti: I just got shower
<elkbuntu> ikonia, i mispelled then
<ikonia> or I can't see him in #ubuntu as BruteFrce
<elkbuntu> he was in -ot as brutesource tonight * BruteSource (n=BruteSou@m150e36d0.tmodns.net) has left #ubuntu-offtopic (requested by elkbuntu)
<elkbuntu> * elkbuntu sets ban on *!*@m150e36d0.tmodns.net
<Flannel> And #u shortly thereafter
<Myrtti> Tm_T: shutup
<elkbuntu> i didnt see him there
<elkbuntu> Myrtti, just tell him the ban stays, and forward him to freenode staff, aka Gary
<Myrtti> I'm making progress!
<Gary> meh /me hides
<Myrtti> don't make me stop now!
<Tm_T> Myrtti: shut me up
<elkbuntu> Myrtti, what progress? you're going to let him back in so he can start looking for fights again?
<Myrtti> no!?
<Myrtti> shush
<Myrtti> I need to concentrate
<Tm_T> haha
<elkbuntu> that's the only progress he's interested in :Ã
<Myrtti> I have to see it myself
<Flannel> IRC is a privledge, not a right.
<elkbuntu> Flannel, damn straight
<Tm_T> Flannel: for me it's left
<ikonia> elkbuntu: I'm not sure thats teh same user, the topics the same but the usr/host is different
<elkbuntu> ikonia, he came in swinging. that's what got people offside
<elkbuntu> that's what he got nuked for
<ikonia> I don't think he's the same guy as BruteFrce asking about the android / mips toolchain
<Flannel> should -release-party be +t?
<elkbuntu> ikonia, he was sent by brute
<Myrtti> Flannel: of course
<Flannel> Myrtti: it's not currently
<ikonia> 10:15 -!- BruteFrce [n=IrcNet@m3a0e36d0.tmodns.net
<ikonia> it's him
<ikonia> that was from my pm log when he was being a bad chap
<ikonia> I should have banned him when he was a pain - sorry
<ikonia> elkbuntu: he's a lot more agressive/rude in -ot than he was in ubuntu but the content is the same
<ikonia> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/10/21/%23ubuntu.html randomly offtopic all day then becomes a pain at 9:59
<ikonia> (in between this conversation I'm getting PM's to STFU you know jack etc
<Myrtti> lol
<Myrtti> what does adly mean?
<ikonia> where ?
<Myrtti> oh, right
<Myrtti> he mistyped it X-D
<Myrtti> [11:54] <gentoon> wtf are you talking about? i invited the guy who was talking adly  about android, he was and still is there.
<Myrtti> [11:55] <Myrtti> adly? (looks it up)
<Myrtti> [11:55] <gentoon> your english is not god enough to understand the ituation, you  shouldnt be an op.
 * Myrtti chuckles
<elkbuntu> what?
<elkbuntu> Gary, your turn
<Myrtti> ok, the discussion is officially now so complex I don't understand him anymore
<Myrtti> he's going in circles
<elkbuntu> it's too close to release to be dealing with pests like this
<elkbuntu> Myrtti, best to pass it on to an englishman until your english is God enough.
<Myrtti> hilarious, isn't it.
<Gary> god enough?
<Myrtti> Gary: see the paste  ^
<elkbuntu> Gary, i believe that's one step before 'good'
<Gary> i'd soft ignore him to be honest, it seems like you will not win by talking
<elkbuntu> Gary, and he's a wimp. he's not even used the shell provider to it's full potential
<elkbuntu> or threatened to do so either
<elkbuntu> nalioth, we might want mr bot 3 to visit #u-r-p at some point
<elkbuntu> or, even mr bot 5, if anyone can drive it
<Flannel> Alright, weve got Glitch ban evading in #u
<Flannel> (he's also in -ot)
<Flannel> ironically, -ot makes it easier to find him in #u
<ikonia> and release party
<elkbuntu> and in #u-r-p
 * elkbuntu headbangs with ikonia
<Flannel> -r-p is window 32 :P not one I'm in the habit of checking often yet.
<elkbuntu> heh
<Flannel> eh
<Flannel> mind setting a realname ban on him? marshtom?
<Flannel> I don't think I've done it successfully yet
<ikonia> Flannel: join the club
<Myrtti> elkbuntu: you're a chick, btw.
<Myrtti> did you know?
<elkbuntu> Myrtti, really?
<Myrtti> yes!
<Myrtti> surprising
<elkbuntu> gee, i thought the lack of dangly meant otherwise...
<elkbuntu> how wrong i was.
<Flannel> Anyone?  ident ban doohickey?
<Myrtti> I'm getting bored
<ikonia> who's doohickey ?
<elkbuntu> guys, someone might want to review bans in #ubuntu and remove anything that looks expirable.
<Flannel> well, shucks.  We've found a keeper.
<ikonia> elkbuntu I'm going thorugh now
<elkbuntu> ikonia, <3
<Flannel> that one was hell.
<ikonia> I got a prod from ompaul the onther night so it was on my list for today
<Myrtti> *sigh*
<Myrtti> Flannel: I'm getting out of luck here
<Flannel> elkbuntu, ideas?
<Myrtti> just a sidenote: OH DEAR GOD I'M SURROUNDED BY IDIOTS
<bazhang> oof
<Flannel> well, shucks Myrtti, I didn't know you liked me like that.
<Myrtti> did marshtom get bored?
<Flannel> Either that or he's looking for another rooted box to use
<Myrtti> ok, is anyone else ready to take over gentoon?
<Myrtti> I'm really getting tired here
 * Flannel is going to sleep soon.  It is 330 afterall.
<elkbuntu> ikonia, he prodded me too, i havent had time
<Myrtti> and whizz bang. I couldn't care less about this person anymore
<ikonia> running though now
<elkbuntu> Gary, are you moonlighting with a troll name?
<Gary> me, where?
<Dave2> buntu, ideas?
<Dave2> err
 * Dave2 stabs right-click paste a bit
<elkbuntu> Gary, 'gay4gay' in #ubuntu
<Gary> not me
<Gary> that is quite trolly
<elkbuntu> esp since it appears aimed at you
<Gary> yeah, I see
<Myrtti> anyone want logs?
<elkbuntu> Myrtti, yep
<Myrtti> I really can't handle this person anymore
<Myrtti> I've wasted an hour with him
<Myrtti> I should be working
<elkbuntu> Myrtti, i told you to hand it on.
<Myrtti> Gary, anyone?
<Myrtti> please, take him off.
<Gary> Myrtti: whats the nickname?
<elkbuntu> gentoon
<Gary> dealing with him
<elkbuntu> you're not going to satisfy him unless you obey his whim
<elkbuntu> Gary, would you like my logs for reference too?
<Gary> elkbuntu: no need, I'm gonna tell him to shut up and wait a week
<Myrtti> thank god almighty for the script that allows me to ignore while irssi still logs
<elkbuntu> haha
<Myrtti> it's been a lifesaver
<Myrtti> ikonia: what the HELL are you doing?
<Myrtti> removing *everything*?
<Gary> I'm being ignored by gentoon btw
<elkbuntu> lol
<ikonia> no
<ikonia> just some really old ones
<Myrtti> *!*@fuck.you.pay.me.shellium.org!#ubuntu-ops <-- NO
<ikonia> checking the logs to see what they did and if it's a dynamic address
<ikonia> Myrtti long gone
<Myrtti> [12:39] ~~~mode/#ubuntu [-b *!*@silenceisdefeat.org] by ikonia <-- no!
<Myrtti> [12:40] ~~~mode/#ubuntu [-b *!*otg*@210.240.*] by ikonia errrhhh, not
<ikonia> Myrtti: the log for that wasn't massive, I can put it back ,but it needs commenting
<ikonia> there are no comments and the offense in teh logs look "minor"
<ikonia> there you go
<elkbuntu> put silenceisdefeat back. it's a common and popular anonoymiser
<Myrtti> http://silenceisdefeat.org/ "Currently, a free shell account with us offers:
<Myrtti> 50MB storage space, http access(http://silenceisdefeat.org/~username), ssh, sftp, 
<Myrtti> imap-ssl mail, pop3-ssl mail. Instant messaging clients for IRC, AIM, MSN, ICQ, 
<Myrtti> Yahoo!, Gadu-Gadu, Jabber, and Lily. Optional trainable 
<Myrtti> server-side spam detection is also included. We also have a few vhosts for fans of IRC.
<Myrtti> "
<ikonia> Myrtti: sitck a comment in the log
<ikonia> stick
<ikonia> as the offenses in the logs for the actual ban look minor
<ikonia> a commnet would be really helpful on some of the unseen issues
<Myrtti> *sigh*
<Myrtti> sometimes I hate irssi
<elkbuntu> ikonia, the problem is that dennis took some of the oldschool ban comments with him
<ikonia> elkbuntu I can see, maybe worth going thorugh and checking them, there arn't that many "none-removed" bans
<ikonia> if anyone knows anything more about them, stick a comment in 
<ikonia> stops mistakes like mine just happening
<Myrtti> *sigh*
<Myrtti> http://silenceisdefeat.org/vhosts
<Myrtti> are those banned?
<Myrtti> if not, please ban
<Myrtti> I *really* shouldn't irc
<Myrtti> in fact...
 * elkbuntu huggles Myrtti lots before she disappears
<ikonia> Myrtti yup, they are banned
<ikonia> Myrtti: they where "obvious" at a glance to leave
<elkbuntu> om.nomnomnom.org <-- :( why did that one have to get misused like this? WHY?!
<Gary> nom nom's elkbuntu 
<elkbuntu> ikonia, continue as you were. we need this unbiased review of the bans, some of us have developed allergic reactions to some stimuli
<ikonia> I was almost done any how
<elkbuntu> :)
<ikonia> getting into late sept/early oct
<elkbuntu> any ip address that doesnt look like the turkbots or .dyn. type thing older than a month can go
<elkbuntu> in fact, anything specified as dyn that is a week old is worth moving
<ikonia> what is wrong with *!*@silenceisdefeat.org as a ban ?
<ikonia> ooh it did work
<ikonia> it just didn't appearin the channel ??
<elkbuntu> i saw you put it back
<bazhang> yup
<bazhang> its back
<ikonia> how odd, didn't appear on my scren
<ikonia> screen
<elkbuntu> irssi can be odd like that
<ikonia> ok - think we are quite up to date, few #kubuntu and #-ot's left
<elkbuntu> ikonia, did you see http://elkbuntu.net/transfer yet?
<ikonia> ooh no
<ikonia> cool
<elkbuntu> sad part is linode seems to block access to member areas from the ips they allocate. i've got my laptop doing the wget script on cron, and scping them up in batches, then running the imagemagick script there.
<SWAT> juliux: ah, how was the con?
<elkbuntu> not this twit again
<elkbuntu> Gary, i found you a new toy ^^
<Gary> playing
<Gary> elkbuntu: leave it for me for a bit please
<elkbuntu> yep.
<elkbuntu> fujisan is a bit more fun anyway i guess :Ã
<jrib> oops, ok no more forwarding here
<elkbuntu> jrib, no, please leave it like this
<jrib> ubuntwo was a bot whose hostname I forwarded here
<elkbuntu> we can at least monitor and it's not going to disrupt an actual channel
<elkbuntu> jrib, this person is a pest anyway
<elkbuntu> note the cloak
<jrib> this makes 4 bots I've banned in the past 24 hours (3 in the last 20 minutes)
<Gary> elkbuntu: where is it ban forwarded from, and why?
<elkbuntu> jrib,^
<jrib> Gary: from #ubuntu because it was speaking publicly
<elkbuntu> Gary, the cloak should be in bantracker
<Gary> cheers jrib 
<Gary> elkbuntu: seems to just be a messed up bot, might be worth changing the banforward to ##unavailable or just a plain ban
<ikonia> shouldn't be running a bot 
<ikonia> 12:01 -!- floyd is now known as DarkSpirit
<ikonia> heads up on these two nicks
<ikonia> asks questions and gets offensive if he doesn't like what he gets
<ikonia> I was going to ban forward him here yesterday, but got distracted
<elkbuntu> Gary, this is probably relevent to the bot: * shani (n=zeeshan@unaffiliated/shani) has left #ubuntu
<elkbuntu> they're actually in #ubuntu-devel
<elkbuntu> asked them to come here
<shani> hello friends
<elkbuntu> shani, i believe you run an irc bot. correct?
<shani> yes i do
<elkbuntu> can you explain why it was in #ubuntu?
<shani> incidently 
<elkbuntu> you mean accidentally?
<shani> i made a test channel for them #ubuntwo and with typing mistake of mine they got into #ubuntu
<shani> so that might be a big crime ? no 
<elkbuntu> ok, you might want to revise the nick if it's going to cause that sort of confusion.
<shani> well ill make sure that this thing donot happens again
<elkbuntu> accidents are not crimes no. however if you could please find a way to make sure it doesnt start big messages in #ubuntu, especially in release time, it'd be good.
<shani> well i prepared them for channel security and to test my tcl scripts 
<shani> it'd be good ? how 
<jrib> shani: just make sure the bots don't talk in #ubuntu
<elkbuntu> we already have enough official security bots in there.
<elkbuntu> the floodbots are our security bot team.
<shani> jrib : ill make sure , but my problem is that i like talking bots , bot that have ability to explain some thing , ability to guide fellows , so i know that you guyz are not happy with me but ill make sure to control them and put silence on them
<elkbuntu> shani, the channel has 1300 people in it. extra bots are not compatible with that many people.
<jrib> shani: sure.  You can always make your own channel where your bots talk and try to guide people
<elkbuntu> we know you only want to help, but unfortunately it's not help.
<shani> elkbuntu : i told you , i didnt meant to put my bots in #ubuntu , i am not fool they you people cant trace them , it was just an accident
<elkbuntu> well, it's taken us a while to figure who it belongs to. we've had to ban it before.
<jrib> I don't believe shani's bot is ubuntwo, is it?
<elkbuntu> jrib, look at the ident of ubuntwo
<jrib> oh, maybe it is
<shani> well it is and i am still thinking that why it is not listening to me , might you put some thing on it , thats y 
<jrib> were BOTSSL and FOSSL also yours shani?
<shani> yes they are mine 
<jrib> shani: the bots were just banned from #ubuntu, that's all
<shani> thank you jrib
<shani> cause at that time they were out of my control
<elkbuntu> eep. uncontrolled bots are bad
<jrib> shani: have you seen the Terminator movie?
<shani> jrib : yup i do , the extreme ai
<shani> <+elkbuntu> eep. uncontrolled bots are bad ---> correct , but they are repairable 
<Tm_T> bannable too (;)
 * elkbuntu nods at Tm_T
<ikonia> shani why are you running 3 bots in #ubuntu though ?
<shani> ikonia : my all bot listens to me , so any command i supply auto applu to all bots 
<ikonia> shani so you miss-typed the command join #ubuntu and all 3 did it
<shani> accidently i did .join #ubuntu instead of #ubuntwo
<shani> that was the mistake
<ikonia> yeah, I saw that, but then the other 2 did that too
<shani> ikonia : i think there is not much science involve in it , what you say jrib ?
<jrib> shani: I think we all understand each other now.  Just make sure no public speaking bots make their way into #ubuntu in the future
<ikonia> I was just trying to understand why the other 2 appeard
<juliux> SWAT: it was very sucessfull
<juliux> SWAT: you can find pictures at ubucon.juliux.de
<shani> ohkay now i want to know some thing for you all , or the one who leads you all 
<ikonia> teh 3 bots joined at different times though
<ikonia> there is a 20 minute delay between ubuntwo and the FOSSL bots
<shani> yeah lagging
<ikonia> 20 minutes
<shani> here in pakistan we have very low bandwidth
<shani> and sometimes bots hangs or dont listens  to my commands
<ikonia> they hang for 20 minutes ?
<shani> ikonia : may be more 
<shani> running at 4 kb/s
 * ikonia is dubious
<shani> on a old bbs
<shani> 33.6k modem
<shani> :D
<shani> so can i ask my question now ?
<elkbuntu> shani, if such problems can exist, then you're not in real control. anything can happen in 20 minutes.
<shani> elkubuntu : i agree you but that would be harmless 
<shani> so can i ask my question now ?
<jrib> go ahead shani
<shani> jrib : we 3 friends , faria , zaouhair and me live in different cities of pakistan , managed and arranged 3 servers with 1 mb connectivity running ubuntu 8.04 servers , we want to offer free public access to help learners and newbies to test and learn ubuntu with lamp , so i want to merge it officially here , i want to know what is the right way to offer them , at current we are testing them at operating the service at #shellhell , 
<shani> *at = and 
<elkbuntu> public shells are dangerous
<elkbuntu> you'll find yourself comprehensively banned from lots of places
<shani> but we want allow users to compile 
<shani> :)
<Pici> I don't understand what this has to do with #ubuntu
<shani> *wont
<Pici> shani: 'want' was correct.
<shani> Pici : read my qestion again
<shani> i hv no concern with #ubuntu or canonical
 * Pici looks at what channel he is in
<ikonia> shani: allow me to summerise, if you don't know how to administer this safley on your own - you shouldn't be doing it, you open yourself up to crazy risks, and probably blacklisting from IRC/ISP's/etc
<shani> ikonia : go head 
<elkbuntu> shani, i dont think you have any further business here. your bots are not to be seen in #ubuntu or any channel they're not invited into by the person who registered the channel.
<shani> elkbuntu : i dint get my answer yet
<shani> or you dnt have any answer
<elkbuntu> shani, you're asking in the wrong place.
<shani> elkbuntu : then why are you not guiding me ?
<elkbuntu> shani, we tried to guide you to not do it. you're refusing that guidance. we're not here to tell you what you want to hear
<shani> elkbuntu : you are just pointing errors , and i m asking for corrections
<shani> there is a difference 
<elkbuntu> shani, i do not know of a way to do it and be safe. at all. i cannot tell you a correction.
<elkbuntu> you're asking for an answer that does not exist
<shani> if it does not exsist then its a good home work for you all BIGGIES 
 * ikonia was right to be dubious
<Pici> shani: This doesn't concern us at all.
<Daviey> sad
<ikonia> I don't believe him on the bots either
<elkbuntu> ikonia, nor do i. i'm waiting for nal to wake up and see that he's 'at it again'
<ikonia> oh, is he known
<elkbuntu> yes.
<ikonia> ok, this becomes clearer
 * ikonia randomly waves at the readers of this log - the many readers
<elkbuntu> he used to have a channel in the ubuntu namespace that shared out his bots to gulliable fools. it invited itself to #ubuntu-au and everything.
<elkbuntu> that was an accident apparantly
<elkbuntu> i removed two bots from there. ubuntwo and fossl
<ikonia> he seems prone to accidents
<elkbuntu> why my evil twin agreed to two, i'll never know. my evil twin doesnt talk to me.
 * ikonia wishes him look with his open shell access
<elkbuntu> is it just me or is paddy_EIRE getting more and more obnoxious?
<Pici> Its not just you.
<Tm_T> it's not, just you.
<Tm_T> (;)
<Myrtti> my bum hurts and I still stink...
<Myrtti> sometimes I just hate working from home
<Gary> elkbuntu: I can set sianis's member cloak if you like
<elkbuntu> Gary, thanks
<jussi01> Gary: dont we normally require those things you mentioned?
<Gary> jussi01: for a project cloak no, but they are a damn good idea
<Gary> the alt so you can always join and be cloaked, and the email incase you forget the password
<Gary> s/always/mostly always
<jussi01> Gary: ahh... ok, just normally they get made to do that when anyone else cloaks them :)
<Gary> it's advised, but for normal project cloaks is not required, maybe for ubuntu ones it is, I do not normally do them
<Myrtti> we harass people to have altnick and email setup
<LjL> Gary: it is required for ubuntu cloaks
<Myrtti> :-D
<Gary> maybe I should make him do it?
<Myrtti> with pink pointy sticks
<Myrtti> YES!
<Gary> PINK POINTY STICKS, woot
<LjL> Gary: in theory it's something we should take care of, but given we cannot really check for alt and email (especially email), we have to rely on you to give the go-ahead
<Gary> ahh, oki, I'll bug him to do those bits then
 * Myrtti needs a huggle
 * Pici hugs Myrtti 
<Pici> !yay
<ubottu> Glad you made it! :-)
<Pici> Can/Should we get ubottu or similar in #u-r-p?
<LjL> Pici: i was thinking perhaps i could put a fb there too
<LjL> partying is partying but also flooding is flooding
<Pici> LjL: Might not be a bad idea... 
<Pici> Did we have floodbots in #u for the last release?
<wgrant> It would seem to be a bad idea to not...
<LjL> Pici: did they even exist?
<Pici> LjL: I don't remember thats why I'm asking.
<LjL> i don't remember either
<LjL> but i guess so
<LjL> since i have files from 2007 in the fb directory
<LjL> ... anyway, i'll give the usual two suggestions that are always killed off at once
<LjL> 1) redirect +1 to -party *not* to #ubuntu
<jussi01> Id rather not put poor ubottu in there, she is rather overloaded, and nothing but factoids is really needed, so how about ubot3 or ubot5`
<LjL> 2) keep +r in #ubuntu and let the others bounce into another channel (-party might do) first
<jussi01> LjL: I like the first one
<LjL> as for the second one, remember that with the floodbots, we can do something similar to -proxy-users
<LjL> i.e. let users *automatically* join #ubuntu, but only after some sort of acknowledgement
<Gary> we could moderate all ubuntu channels :p /me hides
<LjL> if you have never been in -proxy-users, you'd be surprised at the amount of cruft it filters
 * jussi01 puts Gary in the corner
<LjL> (considering it's only mibbit users)
<Tm_T> heh
<LjL> Gary: sure, and i'll grant you the privilege of manually relaying relevant messages
 * Gary waddles off to the corner :'(
<jussi01> LjL: why not try it, it could work really well, though we would have a lot of people asking for support in -party
<LjL> jussi01, figure this
<LjL> i'm an unregged user
<LjL>  /join #ubuntu
<LjL> i ret redirected to #ubuntu-unregged
<LjL> (#ubuntu-unregged) FloodBot1: If you want technical support for Ubuntu, please join #ubuntu - If you want to party for the release if 8.10, join #ubuntu-release-party
<LjL> meanwhile, FloodBot1 sets +e on me in #ubuntu
<jussi01> LjL: that sounds sane to me
<Pici> That sounds like a lot of +e traffic
<jussi01> but thats only for unregged users correct, Im registred so I go straight in?
<LjL> Pici: a bit, yeah, but still better than the flooding
<LjL> Pici: also, it could be even made like this if you're worried about that
<Pici> LjL: But now we'll see +e and a join instead of just a join
<LjL> "If you want technical support for Ubuntu, please type Â« support Â» and then join #ubuntu"
<LjL> Pici: ^
<Pici> LjL: I don't think thats a good idea.
<LjL> jussi01: yes, i was thinking only for unregged users
 * jussi01 hrms...
<LjL> Pici: well, it's the only way to do that while avoiding gratuitous +e's
<LjL> Pici: or, we could avoid the +e's completely and just require them to register
<Pici> LjL: I think that will force a lot of people to seek support elsewhere
<Pici> Especially now that email confirmation is needed to complete registration
<LjL> Pici, typing one single word and then joining a channel isn't particularly hard. if you can't do that, then you probably can't even follow the support advice you're given.
<Pici> LjL: But why do we need to ask them to do that? 
<LjL> Pici: 1) so we can avoid the gratuitous +e's, which is a purely technical reason but not a bogus one  2) that weeds away botnets and completely "random" users
<Pici> LjL: Why just not set +r then?
<LjL> Pici: err yes, that's what i was proposing... +r, but with the bots taking care of giving people instructions on how to join (and by using +e, you can spare them the whole registration thing)
<Pici> LjL: Why do we need to set +r? It sounds like you're creating a problem just so you can fix it.
<LjL> Pici, where have you been the past releases? :P #ubuntu gets utterly unusable
<LjL> and the attackers hardly miss the chance, either
<Pici> ...
<LjL> unaffiliated/unafilliate? hm.
<Pici> LjL: We delt with that bot owner earlier.
<Pici> LjL: They're probably doing it on purpose
<LjL> Pici: i know
<LjL> but i was afraid ##unavailable would get a little too cramped
<jrib> he's getting banforwarded from #ubuntu
<ikonia> why is this bot back again
<LjL> jrib: oh, then i should have forwarded to #ubuntu
<LjL> recursive forwards are fun
<jrib> LjL: i don't like either idea, but I don't have a better one.  We could try (2) and see how it goes though
<Jack_Sparrow> Hi guys, just wanted to let you know I am still here, but swamped with working on a project
<LjL> jrib: #1 seems only natural to me... if you were on #ubuntu+1, now you probably want to discuss the release, and -party is the place for that. and if you don't and want support instead, well if you've already learned how to join +1, you definitely know how to join #ubuntu all by yourself
<ikonia> get staff on it apparntly he's known
<LjL> Jack_Sparrow: ok :)
<Pici> Jack_Sparrow: Glad to see you around again :)
<Jack_Sparrow> I needed a day off to clear my head...  Swim in the pool and enjoy the day
<ikonia> Jack_Sparrow: sound super
<jrib> LjL: well if someone is in #ubuntu+1, they are there for support atm, so I think it makes sense to forward them to another support channel
<Jack_Sparrow> Take care and keep up the good work.  
<LjL> jrib: ok, that point of view makes sense too, but imho mine does as well. the plus of mine is that you avoid (well, redirect) all the questions "why was this channel closed" "i want it back" "why the fsck did you kick me" etc
<jrib> true
<Gary> whats the other two nicks that fellow uses?
<Pici> Gary: shani and fossl iirc.
<Gary> cheers
<LjL> Gary, can you cloak partybot1 ubuntu/bot please
<Pici> woo... partybot
<Pici> Why not partybotu?
<LjL> Pici: people might think it's the factoid bot...
<Pici> LjL: ah... I didn't realize it was a floodbot
<LjL> Pici: ubot3 is already in there for factoids
<LjL> i can't use the floodbot nickname because the other ones would get confused
<Gary> LjL: partybot is droppable btw
<jussi01> partybot :D
<genii> Heh, floods, facts and parties
<LjL> Gary: i know but that doesn't matter, the code needs a trailing 1
<Gary> oki
<jussi01> genii: lol
<genii> jussi01: I think the bots have a more active social life than me
<Gary> LjL: done, still think partybot is better thou
<LjL> Gary: wait... i meant ubuntu/bot/partybot, ubuntu/bot all by itself is a, err, slightly nonstandard cloak...
<LjL> not that it matters much to me but
<Gary> done
<LjL> Gary: i know partybot would be better but i can't be bothered going and changing the code so the trailing numbers are not required. there's more places that need that than you'd think
<genii> the !xmms factoid has bmpx and xmms2   twice in the suggested replacements
<jussi01> !xmms
<ubottu> xmms is no longer being developed, see http://bugs.debian.org/461309 for more details.  Consider using audacious, bmpx, or xmms2, bmpx, or xmms2 instead.
<jussi01> heh
<jussi01> !no, xmms is <reply>xmms is no longer being developed, see http://bugs.debian.org/461309 for more details.  Consider using audacious, bmpx, or xmms2 instead.
<ubottu> I'll remember that jussi01
<jussi01> !xmms
<ubottu> xmms is no longer being developed, see http://bugs.debian.org/461309 for more details.  Consider using audacious, bmpx, or xmms2 instead.
<jussi01> oh ubot5` shut the heck up...
<LjL> !no xmms is no longer being developed, see http://bugs.debian.org/461309 for more details.  Consider using audacious, bmpx, or xmms2, bmpx, or xmms2 instead. Alternatively, try xmms2, and if you aren't found of it, consider using xmms2 instead.
<ubottu> I'll remember that LjL
<jussi01> LjL: wth?
<LjL> !no xmms is no longer being developed, see http://bugs.debian.org/461309 for more details.  Consider using audacious, bmpx, or xmms2, bmpx, or xmms2 instead. Alternatively, try xmms2, and if you aren't found of it, consider using xmms2 instead. Also, how about xmms2?
<ubottu> I'll remember that LjL
<jussi01> I liked mine better... and s/found/fond/
<jussi01> LjL: so is there really a point to having that factoid like that?
<LjL> !xmms | jussi01
<ubottu> jussi01: xmms is no longer being developed, see http://bugs.debian.org/461309 for more details.  Consider using audacious, bmpx, or xmms2 instead.
 * jussi01 slaps LjL - you are supposed to be nice to me!!
<Pici> Says who?
<LjL> me, nice?
<LjL> !notreally-#ubuntu-offtopic
<ubottu> Mwahahahahhahaha. No!
<jussi01> lol
<Myrtti> GODDAMNIT DPKG WORK
 * Myrtti kicks apt in the groin
<Pici> low blow!
<Myrtti> 1000pts
 * genii puts on more coffee
 * Myrtti goes to microwave hers
<genii> LjL: I gather you're fond of xmms2 ?
<Pici> ziroday`: Howdy, how can we help?
<ziroday`> You might want to know that there is a #ubuntu-party that appears to be masqueraidng for a #ubuntu-release-party
<LjL> ziroday`: wonderful
<LjL> good to know thanks
<Pici> ziroday`: Thanks for the heads up, we'll take a lok
<ziroday`> cheers, have a great day :)
<LjL> this fellow who's op never even was in #ubuntu
<Gary> yeah
<ubot3> In #ubuntu-release-party, LjL said: !no intrepid is <reply> Intrepid Ibex is the code name for Ubuntu 8.10, due October 30th, 2008 - Introduction and new features: http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/810rc - Use #ubuntu+1 for support, NOT #ubuntu
<Pici> thats annoying
<LjL> we do need to be able to update factoids in there
<LjL> torrent and http links, everything
<LjL> oh, here is the hammer
<LjL> i couldn't find it
<Pici> !hammer
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about hammer
<Pici> :(
<Myrtti> !hammertime-#ubuntu-offtopic
<ubottu> âââ âââ âââ
<jussi01> Gary: still around?
<Gary> well, I'm not that fat :'(
<jussi01> hehe
 * Myrtti facepalms
<jdong> can someone shut up __u8			requeue:1;
<jdong> err
<jdong> belendax
<jdong> he's spewing nonsense in #ubuntu-devel
<jdong> oh nvm cjwatson is on the case.
 * Flannel votes no on random forwarding to other channels around release time (requiring 'support' to get back, etc).  FWIW.
 * Pici agrees with Flannel 
<Pici> flameware... 
<bazhang> great topic in -party
<ikonia> whcih is /
<ikonia> ?
<Pici> ikonia: #ubuntu-release-party
<bazhang> delayed 2 hours every time someone asks :)
<ikonia> no I meant whats the topic
<ikonia> ah
<bazhang> sounds like Hobbsee
<ikonia> oh the actual /topic
<ikonia> not a topic
<bazhang> yeah
<bazhang> sorry 
<Myrtti> answer is it's delayed with 42 minutes everytime someone asks
<Myrtti> I so hope it were Friday already
<Pici> Me too...
<Myrtti> please, make it Friday today
<Pici> It feels like a busy friday here
<jussi01> please will someone make the us election over already?
<Pici> And 8.10 out too.
<LjL> Pici: yay is using a shell account ftr
<LjL-Lem> holy cow, my client is spitting all NAMES and banlists raw
<Pici> @login
<ubottu> The operation succeeded.
<ikonia> gents I'm off to catch a train, #ubuntu is manic at the moment enjoy :)
<Pici> ikonia: thanks ;)
<Pici> !ping
<ubottu> ping yourself ;-) really the diodes all down my left side are sore
<Pici> LjL: the second part of that doesnt make sense. Typo?
<LjL> Pici: hm?
<Pici> LjL: Oh, misread...nevermind.
<jussi01> hehe
<Pici> More than once too
<jussi01> anyone familiar with inkscape here?
<LjL> Reading package lists... Done
<LjL> W: Bizarre Error - File size is not what the server reported 0 2364
<LjL> W: You may want to run apt-get update to correct these problems
<LjL> who's seen that before?
<Dave2> me
<Pici> Not I.
<Dave2> (today.)
<Pici> (ever)
<Dave2> (On Intrepid AMD64)
<Pici> jussi01: Does Kubuntu 8.10 release simultaneously with Ubuntu 8.10?
<jussi01> Pici: its supposed to....
 * Myrtti slaps Pici's forehead since he doesn't realise to slap it himself
<jdong> Pici: actually, the blue means that the release is accelerating towards you faster than Ubuntu.
<Pici> jdong: ah, blueshift.
<Myrtti> tralala
<Myrtti> I think I finally might be done with today's work
<Pici> Lucky you :)
<Myrtti> yeah, 13 hour days rock!
<Myrtti> not.
<Myrtti> and surprising as it is, staring at a buddy icon of friends who are away from the computer doesn't magically make them come online and available.
 * Myrtti stares some more
<genii> LjL: I've seen it a couple times when a broken deb download
<LjL> [19:18:25] <-- Azhi_Dahaka_ has left this server ("Ex-Chat").
<LjL> [19:18:27] <jspiro> RinTinTigger: so ask away.  But don't say "how are you" because your responses use up 600 packets each time.  That costs a small but noticeable amount of bandwidth.
<LjL> a genius
<genii> LjL: He's spent more time wasting the resources he's concerned about lecturing the other fellow
<genii> After release, #ubuntu+1 merges?
<LjL> yes
<Pici> We usually forward #ubuntu+1 to elsewhere
<genii> OK
<genii> Haha, floodbot lecturing ubottu for flooding in #ubuntu
<LjL> there's something wrong i think... it's not the first time they do that lately
<LjL> but it just sent three messages...
<jussi01> its funny when the bots fight
<jussi01> been happening for quite a while though
<genii> 3 messages in less than 60 secs likely the trigger
<Pici> LjL: The messages were kind of long
<LjL> Pici: right... but there's no check on length
<Pici> LjL: Nevermind then
<LjL> ah right i know why
<LjL> it said "www" once
<Pici> ah
<genii> Interesting
<Pici> Why ask Windows or Gentoo questions in Ubuntu?
<genii> Well, it wasn't really an os-specific Q
<Pici> genii: It might not be, but I wouldn't mention the distro I was using if I was trying to get an offtopic question in.
<genii> Hehe, me either
<Myrtti> I WANT SNUGGLES
<Myrtti> plz I can has Friday? kthx
<Myrtti> sowwy.
 * Myrtti hides
<LjL> banned "redi" from #ubuntu as they asked why they were banned from #mandriva
<LjL> because they had already asked the same in #freenode, been given the name of the op who banned them, explained how to PM someone, and eventually they just left saying "fuck you all"
<nalioth> :)
<Flannel> jussi01: Im pretty handy in inkscape
<jussi01> Flannel: I got it sorted. thanks anyway :)
<genii> Damn. I'm really surious now what he wants to compile that could be taken as if he wants to be malicious
<genii> *curious
<LjL> jspiro is getting a bit on my nerves
<Flannel> LjL++
<genii> Yes, that guy IS annoying
<LjL> and already got kicked by ompaul some time ago
<Pici> +1
<Flannel> I'm messaging him regarding the fact that we appreciate the effort, but don't need the help at the moment
<Flannel> He seems to understand, we'll see how it goes.
<Flannel> Erm.  We're larger than #gentoo, right?
<LjL> a bit, why?
 * Flannel could've swore the 1700 people around edgy was freenode max
<Flannel> he's saying we should ask #gentoo what they do, since they're around 2K
<Flannel> Any way to see their numbers besides joining?
<LjL> they've never been above 1000 for more than 10 minutes at a time...
<LjL> asking me, because i'm in there ;)
<LjL> 963
<Flannel> LjL: sounds good :)  but, in general? /me is curious for new tools.
<LjL> no way to do it
<Flannel> pity
<LjL> a /names or /who would only tell you about users who aren't +i
<nalioth> 962 currently
 * nalioth whistles
<LjL> nalioth: ok, no way for normal beings
<LjL> (aside from the fact that you're in there too)
 * nalioth is in #gentoo atm
<LjL> Flannel: anyway i'm not so sure we're freenode's top, i think wikipedia's party for the millionth article brought in quite a few folks
<Flannel> LjL: Well, at that time it was max.  I haven't exactly kept up with the record
<Flannel> or at least, I *heard* we were max at that time.
<LjL> Flannel: actually wait, it would seem that ALIS gives you the accurate amonut of people
<Flannel> LjL: what are the columns with ALIS anyway?
<LjL> channel name, amount of people, topic
<Flannel> Oh, right.  amount of people is what that is.
 * Flannel has never seen much more than 2 digits there.
<Flannel> erm
<LjL>  /list does it too, but aside from being slow, i *think* it doesn't report the right amount (i.e. doesn't include +i users) - couldn't swear on it too
<Flannel> that was an interesting part.
<LjL> [20:18:28] <balz> what is the lighttp package name?
<LjL> i hate them when they do this
<ikonia> @btlogin
<Myrtti> pwuh
<Myrtti> I hate these kinds of days
<Myrtti> it's almost eleven o'clock
<Myrtti> I just came out of the morning shower.
<Myrtti> "I'll just check the email before heading to shower..."
<Seeker`> ouch
<LjL> uhm, i didn't mean to give him the attitude kick message but the away kick message. oh well.
<Seeker`> LjL: should have the same sort of effect
<LjL> yeah, both result in a kick
<LjL> i know i'm not in -doc but, when i go to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BinaryDriverHowto/ATI and see "two methods" of installing the driver, one "easier"... (and i guess the same goes for nvidia and other things)
<LjL> i'm just left to wonder - is it us who aren't supporting something that ought to be supported, or is it the wiki that's kind of on the wrong track?
<LjL> it gives disclaimers in the header but if one just skips using the contents table, there's no warning whatsoever
<LjL> it should be as big a warning as for enabling root
<LjL> the nvidia page does it better at least
<LjL> (i.e. doesn't mention the nvidia.com driver at all except in "see also", where that page does give a huge warning)
<Mez> Ubuntu Inbox status: 666 Total.
<Myrtti> oh my dear god, I just hit the comic zone. I'm too tired AHIHIHIHIHIHIHIHI *screams*
<Mez> comic zone?
<jussi01> Mez: she is delerious...
<Mez> ah, I thought she was just reading webcomics ;)
<AdamDV> Would anybody know how irc.ubuntu.com was set up?
<Myrtti> sure
<Myrtti> it's a cname
<Myrtti> for irc.freenode.net
<AdamDV> Oh.
<AdamDV> I was wondering how to setup an irc server.
<Myrtti> myrtti@kani:~$ host irc.ubuntu.com
<Myrtti> irc.ubuntu.com is an alias for chat.freenode.net.
<AdamDV> Dang
<ubottu> ptx0 called the ops in #ubuntu ()
<Myrtti> yeah, sorry.
<PriceChild> AdamDV: there's a reasonable guide on wiki.ubuntu.com for the ubuntu dancer packages iirc.
<PriceChild> AdamDV: But whatever ircd you want, their help files, and comments in the config files will probably be helpful.
<jussi01> Hrm, Im going to forward #kubuntu-kde4 to #kubuntu now as per the plan, if nobody has any objections?
<jussi01> PriceChild: you ok with that?
<PriceChild> sounds sensible
#ubuntu-ops 2008-10-30
<LjL> linuxfan: can we help you?
<linuxfan> oops, lol sorry this is an old xchat config, i used to have a #Ubuntu-ops on my other network, ill disable it now sorry guys
<LjL> i've just added a little feature to partybot1 that whoever originally wrote the topic will like ;)
<LjL> they have an #Ubuntu-ops on another network?
<PriceChild> there's a few #ubuntu's
<PriceChild> LjL: tell tell tell :P
<Seeker`> right, its the 30th, is Ubuntu released yet?
<LjL> i would figure, but i'd never have thought they'd all be so organized
<LjL> Seeker`: try asking with other words (pricechild too)
<PriceChild> LjL: that didn't work :(
<LjL> PriceChild: sorry my bad, i don't have enough imagination
<PriceChild> hehe
<PriceChild> guess the wording then :P
<LjL> PriceChild: ok, someone managed to trigger it anyway
 * PriceChild highfives LjL 
<PriceChild> LjL: there's a dodgy "31" in ther eon my screen
<LjL> PriceChild: yeah i changed a "," into "at" at the last minute, but the date() function didn't like that
<LjL> fixing
<PriceChild> the penny drops
<LjL> on their head
<LjL> and it's kind of heavier than a penny
<LjL> but he's right, i should have done it earlier
<LjL> by now it'd be saying 2009
 * Seeker` hides 
<Seeker`> pasting links other than to RC or 8.04 should be banned
<LjL> and it is
<LjL> what are they pasting?
<Seeker`> nvm, my mistake
<Seeker`> they should have a release at midnight one time
<Seeker`> *really* surprise everyone
<Seeker`> "is it out yet?" "yes"
<Myrtti> *sigh*
<Myrtti> midnight what timezone
<jrib> earliest possible
<LjL> [01:34:22] <cob> so what's this stuff about 8.10 being final within a few hours?
<LjL> [01:34:24] <PartyBot1> cob: Was scheduled for Oct, 31, 06:00, but now that you've asked, it's been delayed by 2 hours
<LjL> [01:34:46] <cob> 06:00 GMT?
<LjL> mwhahahaha
<Pici> evil...
<Pici> i like it
<mneptok> LjL: 20:41 < Socceroos> it seems LjL isn't around! we can all ask *that* question!!!
<mneptok> your name in vain ....
<LjL> indeed, indeed
<LjL> violet highlight, sure way not to make me miss it
<PriceChild> LjL: how about making it only respond a small amount of the time.
<LjL> (although i've got the bot on highlight too of course)
<LjL> PriceChild: ok
<PriceChild> LjL: will make it less fun for them for a while :P
<LjL> PriceChild: but delay it anyway?
<mneptok> LjL: sorry about jamming that pencil in your eye.
<mneptok> is it out yet?
 * mneptok runs
<PriceChild> LjL: no idea, i'm just sure when new people arrive they will appreciate it the first time they see it
<LjL> PriceChild: uhm wait, better idea, it'll only respond to people who didn't ask it before...
<PriceChild> LjL: that's also good, but sounds more complicated :P
<LjL> nah, it's an array
<LjL> $Asked[]=$Nick; if(in_array($Nick, Asked)) {}
<mneptok> LjL: if a person asks twice, have the bot PRIVMSG "the host $USERHOST has been added to the release tree blacklist"
<PriceChild> and another array for not sending that twice :D
<LjL> mneptok: gooooood idea
<LjL> yeah it takes two arrays, so what
<mneptok> i am nothing if not a complete bastard. ;)
<PriceChild> LjL: and maybe change increments to something smaller? 8-)
<PriceChild> LjL: while you're at it... ubottu needs to be rewritten
 * Myrtti chuckles
<Myrtti> you EVIL BASTARDS
<Seeker`> LjL: And I believe there is an ubuntu release that needs releasing, while you're fiddling with stuff :P
<Mez> lmao... and now - if I move too far from my PC - I get set away in IRC :D
<Seeker`> Mez: why?
<ubottu> Slart called the ops in #ubuntu (epcom)
 * Myrtti claps her hand to get the dust off them
<Seeker`> night
 * mneptok claps his hands to get the Myrtti off them
<mneptok> embraceable YOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!
<LjL> anyway desktop i386 didn't pass the tests
<Myrtti> mneptok: I'm difficult to get off
<Seeker`> I blame Gazz*k
<mneptok> Myrtti: i'll try not to read tyhat with my American slang goggles on
<LjL> i blame both GazzaK and Gary. and SpongeBob too
<Myrtti> mneptok: good
<mneptok> Myrtti: you're still eminently embraceable
<Myrtti> lovable at least
<Myrtti> that's what I was just told ^____^
<Myrtti> anyway
<Myrtti> methinks it's time for bed
<LjL> [02:13:48] <PartyBot1> WARNING: PM from lokpest - huh?
<LjL> [02:14:02] <PartyBot1> WARNING: PM from lokpest - Anna?
<LjL> oh jesus :)
<LjL> [02:16:59] --> spytrdr has joined this channel (i=ssk@host73.190-31-239.telecom.net.ar
<LjL> he also joined #debian, #fedora and #gentoo, all at the same time
<LjL> have it on highlight, probably because of "trdr"... or something.
<Flannel> what's trdr?
<LjL> some troll i've had on highlight since 2006 or so i think
<Mez>  dmsuperman: Servers now added unaffiliated/dmsuperman to the distributed blacklist (the torrents are also locked)
<Mez> might be worth not showing that if there's a / :D
<LjL> well i can't look beneath cloaks
<LjL> ok, will say "your host" now
<Mez> LjL: just dont show that message if there's a / in their host
<PriceChild> i'll put in a request to staff
<mneptok> PriceChild: printi g a real hostmask to a public channel when a user has deliberately cloaked it may be in poor taste
<mneptok> *shrug*
<PriceChild> mneptok: sorry I was being sarcastic.
<mneptok> PriceChild: ohthankgawd
<Mez> PriceChild: oh, I thought you were just planning on making it do /notice user <host> has been blacklisted
<PriceChild> mneptok: scared we may inadvertantly find out your lair?
<LjL> PriceChild: you should see what google earth has become
<LjL> i can see my frigging window and it's frigging open
<LjL> and my car and the box of tissues in it
<PriceChild> haha
<PriceChild> you can just about make out the bench outside our back door
<PriceChild> on ours
<LjL> PriceChild: but have you tried the street view?
<PriceChild> is that enabled in the uk now?
<mneptok> PriceChild: say you were standing in front of the door to my home, and about to enter. who should have more fear in their heart, you, or me? ;)
<LjL> PriceChild: if it is in italy...
<PriceChild> LjL: there was lots of people against it in the uk, not sure what happenned with it
<LjL> mneptok: i would fear out of sympathy for him
<mneptok> LjL: exaaaaactly
<mneptok> PriceChild: that is incredibly ironic cosidering the CCTV prevalence in the UK
<LjL> while we were all away for summer, the bastards filled the city with cameras
<Flannel> LjL: you're the star of your very own* TV show!
<Flannel> (* it also belongs to everyone else, no you're not special)
<LjL> mneptok: how the hell did you manage to trigger a falso positive now
<mneptok> i have *no* idea
<mneptok> 21:43 < mneptok> dekkong: yeah. Adobe sure is stupid about that, eh?
<mneptok> 21:43 <@PartyBot1> mneptok: Was scheduled for Nov, 01, 06:00, but now that you've asked, it's been delayed by 2 hours
<LjL> mneptok: i know. adobe sure IS stupid abOUT that
<ubottu> In ubottu, king_ said: today is Oct 30,what time does 8.10 final come out?
<LjL> sigh
<mneptok> hehehe
<Flannel> Don't we have a factoid for that?
<Flannel> !isitout
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about isitout
<Flannel> Nope
<LjL> !isitout is <reply> Ask in #ubuntu-release-party - we don't know here
<ubottu> I'll remember that, LjL
<Flannel> ubottu: tell king_ about isitout
 * Flannel doesn't even have a witty response to that...
<Flannel> 18:50 < kakoonia> where's ubuntu!?!
<LjL> you just wait and they make it simpler for you
<Flannel> LjL: Nicely put factoid, by the way.
<genii> Hello all. Connection may be in and out tonight
<LjL> hah i didn't notice the other hidden feature being already randomly triggered
 * Flannel did!
<genii> Flannel: When #ubuntu+1 goes after release, boy will it be busy
<Flannel> genii: I just don't think about it...
<Flannel> genii: although 1350 right now is nothing.
<genii> Yup
<Flannel> -release-party mitigates some of that, but even then, theres only like 150 people in -r-p, so far we've had a pretty slow release.
 * Flannel puts on his "I survived 1700 people" pin.
<genii> hehe
<tritium> Good evening.
<Flannel> Howdy tritium
<tritium> Hi Flannel :)
<Flannel> genii: It's always an interesting estuary after release. old versions mixing with new versions.  All of us having to learn all the new support stuffs for the new versions.
<genii> Flannel: My main issue from Kubuntu point of view is the KDE3 vs KDE4 issues
<Flannel> genii: yeah, that's going to be .... fun....
<Flannel> genii: Luckily, you already have -kde4, so some people have been supporting 4 for a whie
<genii> I'm not sure if they will merge #kubuntu-kde4 soon yet or not. I wonder if riddell knows
<genii> Flannel: Yes, this is true, since they will be in the merged channel
<mneptok> LjL: get yer hand outta the bot's ass!
 * mneptok saw that
<jdong> 22:51 < shingalated> get a life u fucking frog hopping jungle book
<Flannel> LjL: nice.
<jdong> do we know this guy?
<Flannel> jdong: not in -r-p
<Flannel> he's in ubuntuforums
<genii> Sounds like an asshole
<jdong> right
<jdong> he's using random -ing words
<jdong> half of them being vulgar.
<Flannel> ubottu: tell shingalated about coc
<jdong> I'm just amused. this is more fun than doing homework
<elky_work> heh, releases. seems to be being pummelled.
<elky_work> err, releases.u.c.
 * Flannel just wants to know when its released so I can fire up my torrents!
<Flannel> Last time they ditched me
<elky_work> heh
<tritium> elky_work: surely it's not out yet, is it?
<Flannel> tritium: is it out/?1?!?!???
<elky_work> i dunno
<elky_work> im at work
<genii> Bah
<tritium> Flannel: heh, not that I know of.
<tritium> But I know very little ;)
<genii> Now I need to know when in my local timezone it works so I can start the seeding also
<genii> I may need more coffee tonight ...
<tritium> Tim Horton's!
<genii> tritium: Damn straight!
<tritium> :)
<elky_work> just hint, it'll probably be sometime *after* the UK wakes up.
<genii> I'm not in #ubuntu-release-party ... do they have some running countdown or so in there?
<elky_work> just a*
<elky_work> damn eeepv
<elky_work> genii, doubt it. more likely a million geeks going 'are we there yet?'
<genii> Hehe
<mneptok> genii: the countdown timer is actually Steve Langasek's mood ring ;)
<genii> Ah, the release manager
<tritium> #ubuntu-release-party is a zoo.
<nalioth> MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
<tritium> nalioth: we have no cows at our zoo.
<elky_work> no, just buffalo
<elky_work> stampeding
<Flannel> buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo.
<tritium> And wildebeest
<genii> I'm tempted now to visit the cow zoo
<tritium> genii: would you bring me back a ribeye or New York strip if you go?
<genii> tritium: Sure :)
<tritium> :)
<evand> LjL: Can you please fix the topic in #ubuntu-release-party to not say that the RC is the final release.
<Flannel> evand: You can.
<genii> tritium: Only elk steaks, unfortunately
<tritium> Uh-oh ;)
<genii> elkbuntu: Apologies on the mutilation-and-run  :)
<tritium> genii: the drive-by butcher
<evand> thanks Flannel 
<genii> tritium: I thought it might be worth a laugh and I'm not extremely busy 
<tritium> genii: :)
 * genii slaps a bandaid on elkbuntu
<genii> Hehe nice touch, "PartyBot" kudos to whoever is responsible for it
<elky_work> evand, the topic in the party channel is open to any cloaked ubuntu member to change. we tend to assume that the members will behave in the channel at release time ;)
<elky_work> genii, dont encourage non-official bots. i cannot tell who that one belongs to...
<evand> elky_work: ah, noted thanks
 * genii sips his coffee and watches the zoo
<elky_work> if someone could investigate... it
<elky_work> 'd be nice
<tritium> It's got an /ubutu/bot hostmask
<Flannel> mneptok: deftly played
<elky_work> tritium, it wasnt showing up with /wii, and /ns info was dubious. thanks'
<mneptok> Flannel: hrm?
<mneptok> Flannel: "April?"
<Flannel> Aye
 * mneptok beams brightly
<tritium> elky_work: really?  /wii showed it for me
 * genii takes notes
<Flannel> elky_work: believe its el jay el
<genii> Weird. I wonder what that IP/blacklist it talks about are
<Flannel> genii: just fun
<genii> Ah
<genii> IANA says some possibly forged IP in Brazil, apparently....
<elky_work> Flannel, neither /wii or /whois are working for me currently. dunno why
<elky_work> now i do. it has a number after it, which i could not see as i am not in -r-p as this nick
<Flannel> elky_work: bot rename was to keep floodbots from freaking out
<elky_work> Flannel, my telepathy skills are a bit rusty and all ;)
<Flannel> elky_work: It's in your scrollback ;)
<elky_work> Flannel, bip doesnt scroll back that much for me. i'm not at my laptop. it is 7 suburb east from me.
<elky_work> i'm on my eeepc with mobile broadband. excessive scrollback would kill me.
<elky_work> and i'm actually supposed to be working.
<Flannel> elky_work: Ah, well, there's your problem.  your other-half is in -monitor, and would know that it's in there too.
<tritium> elky_work: which model?  How do you like it?
<elky_work> tritium, 701. its easier than lugging around a full lappy
<tritium> Nice.  :)
<genii> Flannel: You cruel so n so ;)
<Flannel> genii: How so?
<genii> <some-name-here>: When is 8.10 due?                  .... <Flannel> : /j #ubuntu-release-party
<genii> repeat....
<Flannel> genii: nonsense, !isitout is what they get
<genii> hehe
<genii> I can see now why it's filling up in there
<tritium> I'm off to bed, folks.  Party on, Wayne.
<Flannel> Party on, tritium
<tritium> :)
<Flannel> Pretto: How can we help you?
<Pretto> Flannel, people are saying  that are not  able to access www.ubuntu.com
<Flannel> Pretto: Thats because its down due to heavy load
<nalioth> Pretto: i'm sure the servers are taking a beating
<genii> I wonder if ubuntu sets download records. Like what mozilla was trying for
<Flannel> genii: Hopefully the majority of downloads are torrents
<Pretto> nalioth, but just from Brazil? people from outside Brazil told me that everything is ok
<Flannel> freetown: How can we help you?
<genii> Flannel: Yes
<freetown> hmm....i thought this channel was something else. sorry.
<Pretto> talking about torrent, one guy on #ubuntu-br is donating  200gb to seed Ibex  for download
<Flannel> thoreauputic: Whether they ask in -r-p isn't really important.  No "business" is going on in that channel, just silliness.  Telling them to ask is better than telling them to go somewhere and sit.
<thoreauputic> Flannel: yeah I guess so
<thoreauputic> Flannel: no big deal :)
<genii> Pretto: Need bandwidth more than space
<Pretto> genii, that's about bandwidth
<elky_work> remind me to rally the linode peeps when i get home
<genii> Pretto: Find out then what kind of pipe he claims he has that does 200Gb/s
<Pretto> genii, he is away now... he is a freenode staff
<genii> Sounds suspiciously convenient :)
<Pretto> :]
<LIRC73> why do i keep getting redirected here?
<Flannel> LIRC73: Lets take a look
<LIRC73> how come i cant join #Ubuntu?
<LIRC73> omg
<Flannel> LIRC73: Calm down
<Flannel> Or, ignore me.
 * genii takes bets on LIRC73's next appearance
<bazhang> wow. u-r-p is rough
<elky_work> bazhang, imagine that in #ubuntu.
<elky_work> you may need counselling afterwards though
<bazhang> elky_work, haha
<bazhang> reminds me of ##politics
<Flannel> Well, I enjoy the rickroll evand, but the fact that you claim its out is bad.
<evand> ok, I'll change it to just say 8.10!
<Flannel> evand: much better
<wgrant> #u-r-p is getting bad already.
<wgrant> Surprising.
<elky_work> wgrant, its going to be a fairly trolly release. theres not much visually different, which always brings out the trolls
<wgrant> Oh yes.
<wgrant> We've seen a fair bit of that already.
<wgrant> Am I to presume the bad spelling in the topic is deliberate and dangerous?
<jdong> wgrant: click it.
<jdong> wgrant: you know you want to.
<bazhang> haha
 * jdong wonders what his punishment will be
 * wgrant is not quite that stupid.
<jdong> wgrant: you'll find it funny
<Flannel> wgrant: its +1
 * genii gets rick-rolled
<genii> %*&%#@# !!!
<wgrant> As I suspected.
<genii> Sneaky
<Flannel> wgrant: well, you know... the Ibex is never going to give you up, never going to let you down.
<wgrant> But it has more issues than Edgy!
<thoreauputic> wgrant: is that possible?
<wgrant> thoreauputic: #u-r-p says so, so it must be.
<thoreauputic> heh
<wgrant> But I think Edgy wins over everything. Except perhaps WinME.
<genii> That guy asking someone to query why he's banned in #remote-exploit is in #kubuntu now doing same crap. Just gave warning now
<genii> bot is telling me I need to be op to kick him
<genii> Apparently /msg chanserv op #kubuntu genii  no-go
<genii> Someone boot him please
<Flannel> Wait, why is ubot3 in -r-p?
<Flannel> hah
<wgrant> That's actually not too far from the truth...
<genii> @login
<ubottu> The operation succeeded.
<genii> Am required @login this channel only?
<Flannel> genii: just to edit factoids
<genii> Hm
<Flannel> or rather, to be recognized by ubottu
<Flannel> genii: are you identified?
<nalioth> Want to see if someone is identified to services at a glance?  http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#spoofing Flannel 
<Flannel> nalioth: I know I can /wii them
<genii> Flannel: Yes, I'm identified
<Flannel> hmm
<Flannel> genii: Youre on access list for #k.  That's odd.
<genii> Flannel: is correct syntax?      /msg chanserv op #kubuntu genii                 ?
<genii> (this is the first time I needed to use it)
<Flannel> genii: no genii at the end, just op #kubuntu
<Flannel> (/msg chanserv + that, of course)
<genii> OK. I'll test now
<genii> Works now
<genii> I'll change the command alias
<genii> Done
<genii> @btlogin
<genii> bah
<genii> Interesting. How is it in bantracker it shows my failed attempt to op myself?
<genii> (in the log details)
<Flannel> genii: which ban?
<Flannel> oh the @login stuff?
<genii> Flannel: Riddell banned the fellow which was going on about his #remote-exploit ban (in #ubuntu then in #kubuntu)   
<genii> Flannel: "theUnBanned"
<genii> Ironically
<Flannel> genii: right, I saw it. You're referring to your !login/@login?
<genii> Flannel: No. I'm referring to line in log of: 2008-10-30T05:46:45 <genii> /msg chanserv op #kubuntu genii
<Flannel> Oh, added a space? ;)
<genii> Flannel: I had my name at the end which was the bad syntax. But I'm curious that chanserv messages get into the log
<Flannel> genii: Nah, thats not a chanserv message
<Flannel> you did something like this (with a space in front of the /)
<Flannel>  /msg chanserv op #foobar
<genii> Flannel: Should it not have been a PM from me to chanserv?
<Flannel> so the message was sent to the channel accidentally
<genii> Hah, OK
<genii> My curiosity is satisfied then
<genii> Flannel: Thanks for the explanation
<wgrant> Who is puppeting the no-longer-FloodBot?
<Flannel> wgrant: no one
<wgrant> It just randomly shouts ITS OUT!!! at opportune times?
<Flannel> wgrant: mhmmm.  And then immediately rescinds its statement.  And also reminds people who say its out that it's not.
<Flannel> wgrant: It also did an "RSS" feed earlier that said it was delayed indefinately.
<wgrant> Flannel: I know, but I wondered if it did that automagically or if the spontaneous statements were human.
<Flannel> wgrant: Believe theyre automagical.  PartyBot is omniscient and everything.
<genii> All hail PartyBot!
<wgrant> It is being delayed nice and quickly.
 * wgrant lurves PartyBot1
<Flannel> b0rked doesn't get back in.
<Flannel> er, bOrk3d
 * wgrant agrees fully.
<genii> Flannel: I guess whatever my 6.06 boxes are running is latest, I have upgrade/reboot on a cronjob every 7 days
<Flannel> genii: lsb_release -a shows .2 ;)
<elkbuntu> note the visitor to -proxy-users
<Flannel> elkbuntu: Not in there, whoissit?
<elkbuntu> <afdadsfadsf> !TOR-GPG
<elkbuntu> * afdadsfadsf (i=Administ@gateway/tor/x-cf15bf815aaeb592) has joined #ubuntu-proxy-users
<elkbuntu> if ever there is a time to be worried about shell and proxy users, it;s now
<wgrant> Flannel: I hope you realisee that that fake RSS item isn't too far from the truth...
<Flannel> wgrant: Those are random, not me.
<wgrant> I thought you owned it.
<Flannel> ell jay ell is running it, and set up said random announcement things.
<genii> hehe perscitus is letting the bot get to him
<genii> Flannel: ether_c did the evil not-to-be-done thing again
<Flannel> What the hell is wrong with people
<genii> Everything, apparently
 * wgrant needs ot set up an alias.
<genii> I wonder if anyone's keeping tabs on how many got rick-rolled so far
<Gary> LjL: :'(  I get all the blame
<elkbuntu> only because it's so funny
 * wgrant fuels the fire.
<genii> Geez. 4:23am locally.
<wgrant> genii: sleep!
<genii> wgrant: I'm stubborn :)
<wgrant> From what I hear, I might be in for a very late night tonight.
<genii> And overcaffeinated
<Myrtti> *yawn*
<jussi01> wgrant: where are you located again?
<wgrant> jussi01: Sarcasm?
<jussi01> wgrant: no, why?
<wgrant> Oh, I just thought you might be commenting on the fact that I mentioned it twice in 5 minutes.
<wgrant> Melbourne, AU
<jussi01> wgrant: hehe, wasnt really looking. 
<jussi01> wgrant: anyway, care for a beer/coffee/milkshake in a couple of weeks?
<wgrant> jussi01: As long as I don't have to fly to .fi!
<jussi01> Ill be in Melbourne/Geelong area for a few weeks soonish
<wgrant> Aha. Sounds good.
<jussi01> :)
<wgrant> A little odd that I'll be meeting other significant Ubuntu people three times in the rest of this year when I've not met any others before...
<jussi01> lol
<wgrant> You're coming soon, then I'm going to UDS, then Nafallo is coming in the rest of December.
<jussi01> wgrant: Im likely to be there middle of the month
<Myrtti> *sniffles*
<wgrant> jussi01: Middle of which month?
<wgrant> Myrtti: Hmmm?
 * jussi01 huggles Myrtti
<jussi01> wgrant: novemeber, until start of december
<wgrant> jussi01: Aha, excellent.
<jussi01> ~14th nov - ~ 6th dec
<ubot3> jussi01: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<jussi01> sigh
<wgrant> Are you going to UDS, or is the departure date a nice coincidence?
<jussi01> sadly no...
<wgrant> I depart earlyish on the 7th.
<wgrant> :(
<genii-2> Bah
<wgrant> jussi01: I'm only 17, so somewhat too young for a beer, but other stuff sounds good!
<jussi01> wgrant: yeah, I thought that was the case :)
 * jussi01 buys wgrant an illegal beer :P
<wgrant> Heh.
 * genii sips
<elkbuntu> does vic not partake in the 'one standard drink under adult supervision' thing?
<elkbuntu> or is that phased out now?
<wgrant> Under parental supervision it's fine.
<jussi01> elkbuntu: Ive never seen that...
<elkbuntu> wgrant, who is to say jussi01 isnt your dad.
<wgrant> I think.
<wgrant> Heh.
<elkbuntu> jussi01, it's not really known, and many restaurants refuse outright.
<jussi01> elkbuntu: err... the fact if I shave I look about 2 years older than him?
<elkbuntu> lol
<wgrant> Lots of licensed venues do refuse to let minors drink even under adult supervision, I believe.
<genii> Well, entropy wins. LAters
<wgrant> But I can't say I've tried.
<jussi01> wgrant: we can just buy a slab and drink it in the park :P
<wgrant> Hah.
<elkbuntu> you can take the aussie out of australia...
<jussi01> hehe
<wgrant> #u-r-p has slowed down a bit now.
<Myrtti> jussi01: you look older than wgrant if you shave? how old is wgrant? 15?
<elkbuntu> wgrant, the eye of the storm.
<wgrant> Hahah.
<Myrtti> it's not reassuring
<Myrtti> wgrant: 13?
<wgrant> Myrtti: 17, but close enough...
<Myrtti> right
<Myrtti> yeah.
<elkbuntu> Myrtti, you're the only one here who knows what jussi looks like
<Myrtti> First time I saw him, he was wearing Ubuntu Studio hoodie and a bit bagging jeans, and when he walked, I thought in my head "well, he certainly walks relaxed, I wonder if that's something Australian..."
<wgrant> ... I see.
<Myrtti> so saying jussi01 looks two years older than anyone in liaison of needing "an older, trustworthy, guarding person"...
<Myrtti> NOT ASSURING!
<jussi01> heheh
<thoreauputic> Myrtti: Australians are world champion lamp-post leaners - don't know about relaxed walks
<wgrant> AHHH! Another Australian. Run.
<jussi01> hehe
 * thoreauputic pulls out the Vegemite jar and threatens everyone with a sandwich
<thoreauputic> mwuhahah!
 * wgrant lurves Vegemite.
 * wgrant doesn't lurve the lag.
<Myrtti> thoreauputic: here in Finland we have special kind of shovels for you then
<jussi01> any UK-ites here?
<Myrtti> the handle stick is replaced with chain
<PriceChild> jussi01: depends
 * thoreauputic is trying to work out why suddenly xchat is beeping on every keystroke
<thoreauputic> :/
<wgrant> sudo rmmod pcspkr!
<thoreauputic> wgrant: no happening in irssi or anywhere else...
<thoreauputic> *not
<jussi01> PriceChild: can you link me/tell me the price of taking a train/bus from manchester to heathrow?
<PriceChild> jussi01: http://www.thetrainline.com
<PriceChild> jussi01: http://www.nationalexpress.com/coach/index.cfm
<PriceChild> 'depends' :P
<jussi01> PriceChild: many thanks :D
<PriceChild> but i would go by train
<PriceChild> not my fault if you don't get a seat though 8-)
<jussi01> bleh, maybe I should just fly...
<PriceChild> jussi01: think of the planet!
<PriceChild> lots of canonical types poping in
<Myrtti> I was going to lart jussi01 for considering domestic flights. Then I remembered he has lived in Oulu. Carry on.
<jussi01> hehe
<PriceChild> it'll be a lot lot cheaper to just go by train
<PriceChild> probably even cheaper for coach, but that'll take much longer
<jussi01> hrm, 36Â£
<jussi01> I should just thumb a lift :P
<PriceChild> walk?!
<jussi01> PriceChild: nah... bit far to be honest...
<jussi01> :P
<ubottu> DJones called the ops in #ubuntu (lo2)
<wgrant> christel: I hear that you k-lined kahrytan some time ago, and that I should report to you that he's using tor, under a different nick, in #ubuntu-release-party, saying that he's avoiding nalioth.
 * Hobbsee waves
<ikonia> hello Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> ikonia: ready for release?
<ikonia> I am now
<Hobbsee> woot!
<ikonia> you seem in fine form
<ikonia> wgrant: he was on the last few days being quiet - I gave him a nal a nudge on it too
<christel> wgrant: well, id need a nick :P
<Hobbsee> ikonia: yeah - started an assignment today, and finished it.
<wgrant> christel: Erk, sorry, perscitus. PriceChild seems to be looking at it.
<Hobbsee> may well make sense to op the developers in #u-r-p, too, btw.
<Hobbsee> + clueful people
<wgrant> Hobbsee: ubuntu/member/* is oppable.
<Hobbsee> wgrant: that's true, but most of them won't know they can.
<elkbuntu> Hobbsee, having $number_of_developers in the flags list isnt going to make them any wiser
<Seeker`> hows it going?
<elkbuntu> wgrant, under what nick?
<wgrant> elkbuntu: perscitus
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: i don't know about that - i've previously found it was quite effective
<PriceChild> is the channel in a bad state atm? not sure its needed
<wgrant> It's not too bad now.
<wgrant> It was worse earlier, and will deteriorate eventually.
 * thoreauputic thinks the appearance of lots of ops in #u-r-p near release heightens the atmosphere (just a fun thing)
<Hobbsee> thoreauputic: yeah, that too
<Hobbsee> gives the perception of 'important people' being there enjoying it with them
<Hobbsee> and seemsto make them a bit less unruly, as people (afaihs) listen to what they say, so cuts down on misinformation
<Seeker`> or just voice the important people
<wgrant> Keeping real people voiced might work.
<Seeker`> makes a difference between "important people" and "people who want to kick us out"
 * Hobbsee shrugs
<Hobbsee> possibly
<PriceChild> perhaps
<PriceChild> i'm off to work soon so ignore me, i most likely won't be here
<thoreauputic> Seeker`: a bit of Fear and Apprehension doesn't hurt  :) Ubuntu doesn't mean "walk on eggshells and don't upset the punters"
 * thoreauputic is maybe a bit BOFHish :)
<elkbuntu> only maybe?
<elkbuntu> getting soft in your old age?
<thoreauputic> elkbuntu: Watch your step... 
<thoreauputic> *g*
<thoreauputic> elkbuntu: I always was a softy really :)
<thoreauputic> just think there's a bit too much "Oh, that's not really 'ubuntu'" - #ubuntu in 2004-6 had some funny and tough ops who were not ashamed to be a bit sarcastic at times
<elkbuntu> hehe
<elkbuntu> yeah. it was possible with a smaller non-mainstream group
<thoreauputic> elkbuntu: Nostalgia ain't what it used to be...
<elkbuntu> hehe
<elkbuntu> you always were an ironic one
<thoreauputic> elkbuntu: re: "amller no-mainstream group" ..."no, I think that's an error - people should learn the 'culture" otherwise we are producing a bunch of sponges instead of a set of clueful users
<ubottu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (flood)
<ikonia> can someoen get a grip in release-party
<ikonia> it's a joke
<wgrant> Erm, a fake PartyBot2?
<wgrant> ikonia: What do you mean?
<ikonia> fake party bot, morons just doing it's out it's out it's out to provoke the bot
<wgrant> Warning time.
<wgrant> It's not at all bad now.
<ikonia> it's a joke
<elkbuntu> thoreauputic, i know plenty of clued users who dont get the culture
<thoreauputic> ikonia: this looks like normal release behaviour in u-r-p to me
<ikonia> I see no point in encouraging this behaviour / allowing it happen
<wgrant> ikonia: Have you attended many instances of the release in #u-r-p before?
<thoreauputic> ikonia: It's called harmless fun I believe
<thoreauputic> ikonia: relax
<ikonia> wgrant: I've popped in and out
<thoreauputic> elkbuntu: what I meant is that people should understand the "tough love" aspect of the culture
<thoreauputic> elkbuntu: in other words, if we are always nice and polite a lot of people take advantage
<ikonia> thoreauputic: thats a tough line to walk 
<ikonia> thoreauputic: either side of it is disaster
<thoreauputic> ikonia: rubbish
<elkbuntu> agreed
<ikonia> too soft and people take advantage as you said, too hard and people don't want to talk 
<ikonia> either way can be a disaster for a community or project
<elkbuntu> thoreauputic, the tough love culture lives with debian, as far as i'm concerned.
 * Hobbsee notes #u-r-p is not normal, and people go back to being sane.
<elkbuntu> Hobbsee, you mean 'saner'
<thoreauputic> ikonia: I learnt more in #debian than anywhere - and it didn't kill me to be larted when I was silly/getting it wrong
<ikonia> elkbuntu: there is room for a tougher stance, eg: how many chances do X ammount of people get on IRC (just an easy example)
<ikonia> thoreauputic: and thats one of the positive aspects because of your personality/approach
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: well, comparatively sane
<elkbuntu> ikonia, we're forced to be kinder than we ought to. yes. but going completely tough-love is not what ubuntu does best
<thoreauputic> ikonia: I agree that people should not be kicked without adequate warnings etc, of course
<ikonia> elkbuntu and I agree on that, I wasn't suggesting tough love
<ikonia> thoreauputic but there should be a line, yes
<thoreauputic> elkbuntu: I'm not suggesting that extreme
<jussi01> thoreauputic: thing is, the mainstream culture we have now is different to when you were cutting your teeth with debian. 
<elkbuntu> there is a line, and we're constantly tight-roping it
<thoreauputic> juliux: that's true too
<jussi01> poor juliux
<ikonia> jussi01 some wasy for the better, others a real loss
<thoreauputic> umm jussi01 
<thoreauputic> sorry juliux :)
<jussi01> ikonia: true, but we cant just go back to the "good old days" now because it doesnt work like that in a more mainstream type culture, as we have here. 
<ikonia> jussi01: not suggesting we should go back
<ikonia> its a testiment to how far the software has come that the community has changed
<elkbuntu> i think there's some general misdirection of reply here...
 * thoreauputic thinks it's amusing to be advocating "tougher" when his historical record as an op contains very few bans :)
<jussi01> hehe
 * jussi01 huggles thoreauputic
<thoreauputic> I'm more about allowing slightly sardonic comment etc.
<thoreauputic> without being called for being "rude"
<thoreauputic> and yes, I'm aware of international cultural differences
<thoreauputic> jut to fend that one off  before it surfaces :)
<thoreauputic> *just
<elkbuntu> thoreauputic, you were not usually the wielder of the banstick, just the bait.
<thoreauputic> bait?
<thoreauputic> ah, I suppose you mean I did the warning and others did the ban - often true
 * thoreauputic has been occupied with other projects lately
<thoreauputic> elkbuntu: The user base has changed a lot - #ubuntu can be a frustrating place to be these days for an Old School type ;-)
<skenderbeu> is the ubuntu released>?
<elkbuntu> thoreauputic, i'm not as old school as you, and it frustrates me
<elkbuntu> skenderbeu, no.
<thoreauputic> ...
<elkbuntu> skenderbeu, this isnt a place to ask either
<skenderbeu> where can i ask?
<Myrtti> skenderbeu: anything else we can help you with?
<Myrtti> skenderbeu: erm. you can ask
<Myrtti> you don't get an answer though
<jussi01> skenderbeu: #ubuntu-release-party
<jussi01> !idle | skenderbeu
<ubottu> skenderbeu: Please keep in mind that this channel is for operator/abuse questions only, and we ask you to part when you have no further business here, in order to keep track of users with pending inquiries.
<juliux> thoreauputic: never mind you are not the first person;)
<thoreauputic> juliux: :)
<thoreauputic> elkbuntu: My INX project is about getting newer people excited with what can be done in CLI or with Bash, so in a way it's a continuation of my previous support efforts in #ubuntu etc.
<thoreauputic> i.e. bridging the gap for GUI Babes ;p
<elkbuntu> thoreauputic, :)
<Myrtti> skenderbeu: hello, I can see in your idle time that you're active
<Myrtti> skenderbeu: do you have any other questions?
<Myrtti> skenderbeu: if not, please leave the channel
<skenderbeu> what do you mean? iam not active
<Myrtti> you are chatting on other channels
<Myrtti> or with other people
<thoreauputic> skenderbeu: you are idling here - Myrtti is asking you politely not to do so
<skenderbeu> i don't understand
<Myrtti> !idle
<ubottu> Please keep in mind that this channel is for operator/abuse questions only, and we ask you to part when you have no further business here, in order to keep track of users with pending inquiries.
<Myrtti> skenderbeu: again, do you have any other questions?
<skenderbeu> no
<skenderbeu> why?
<thoreauputic> skenderbeu: it would be preferable if you left - it might upset you to be removed :)
<Myrtti> that took a while
<thoreauputic> yes
<elkbuntu> excited kids can be hard to communicate with
<Myrtti> I still haven't recovered from the release party year ago
<elkbuntu> haha
<wgrant> Are .pool URLs immediately removable offences now?
<Hobbsee> yes.
<thoreauputic> elkbuntu: brief pm OK ?
<elkbuntu> thoreauputic, sure
 * Hobbsee gets otu the stick
<ikonia> where ?
<Hobbsee> #u-r-p
<ikonia> enjoy
<ikonia> you'll ware it out
<Hobbsee> it shouldn't be forever longer anyway
<ubot3> In #ubuntu-release-party, Hobbsee said: !norelease is <reply> The release manager saw his shadow and went back into his burrow, so we'll have six more weeks of Intrepid
<Hobbsee> can someone add that please?
<elkbuntu> of or until?
<Hobbsee> eparse?
<elkbuntu> well, we dont have intrepid yet, how could we have 6 more weeks of it?
<Hobbsee> oh.  and that should read Hardy.
<Hobbsee> clearly the RM is confused.
<ikonia> prinipal was funny, I hear bull murrays voice
<ikonia> principal even
<Myrtti> @login
<ubottu> The operation succeeded.
<Myrtti> !norelease is <reply> The release manager saw his shadow and went back into his burrow, so we'll have six more weeks of Hardy.
<ubottu> I'll remember that, Myrtti
<Hobbsee> Myrtti: except that ubot3 seems to be what's in #u-r-p
<Myrtti> ubot3: !norelease is <reply> The release manager saw his shadow and went back into his burrow, so we'll have six more weeks of Hardy.
<ubot3> In #ubuntu-ops, Myrtti said: ubot3: !norelease is <reply> The release manager saw his shadow and went back into his burrow, so we'll have six more weeks of Hardy.
<Myrtti> right
<Myrtti> oh well
<elkbuntu> oh dear. -ot has become pppoe_dude's favourite dating helpline again
<wgrant> Oh, he's still around?
<Myrtti> sure he is
<wgrant> I remember him doing that a long time ago.
<Hobbsee> oh dear
<elkbuntu> wgrant, some things never change.
<elkbuntu> at least we dont have yipe preying on everything that could possibly resemble a female anymore.
<Gary> ooo back in the days
<Mez> elkbuntu: I remember him. Apparentlymy nick is very feminine ...
<Gary> hawt
<elkbuntu> Mez, it kind of is. especially considering i've known girls to go by it.
<Gary> doesn't help that you look femine too /me hides
 * Myrtti goes to put on her SuSE shirt and burps
 * Gary hugs Mez 
<Myrtti> grouphug!
<Mez> elkbuntu: indeed, so do I - she's known as female MEz
<elkbuntu> heh
<Mez> Lol, there's actually 3 Mez's in my drinking buddies crowd.
<Mez> Me, Fake Mez, and Female Mez
<elkbuntu> you poms are weird. i've yet to meet a male mez
<ikonia> poms
<ikonia> ha ha
 * Myrtti rolls her eyes
<elkbuntu> ikonia, it's the true aussie way to refer to you people.
<Gary> "you people"
<elkbuntu> is kah ban-evading yet again?
<elkbuntu> i mean, his ident was kahrytan before, now it's perwhatever
<ikonia> elkbuntu: I think this is the line thoreauputic was talking about
<elkbuntu> ikonia, -party is made to go to hell. staff have taken over playing whack-a-mole with him.
<ikonia> yeah I saw the k-line cross-hair hit and miss a few times
<ikonia> elkbuntu: I think the "made to get to hell" is the bit I miss out on, I just don't get that,
<elkbuntu> ikonia, they'd do it somewhere else, if they couldnt do it in -party. that somewhere else would be #ubuntu
<ikonia> I do see that point, 
<elkbuntu> the whole point of -party is to avoid having #ubuntu disrupted.
<elkbuntu> there was really no other point.
<elkbuntu> the party is the bait, not the purpose.
<thoreauputic> that seems to be working quite well actually
<wgrant> It does.
<ikonia> I think it best I part the channel soon as I don't get it or get any value
<ikonia> wgrant: seems to be doing a nice job of "hosting"
<thoreauputic> ikonia: u-r-p is valueless from a content viewpoint, for sure :)
<wgrant> It is mildly amusing and depressing at times.
<thoreauputic> ikonia: it's kind of fun to watch the chan scroll madly when the real announcement happens though :)
<ikonia> wgrant I like you as a compare then
<ikonia> thoreauputic: I was watching to see if there was any geuine discussion about the release or what people thought........I was wrong
<wgrant> for a few minutes after the announcement it is just... insane.
<wgrant> ikonia: There never is.
<thoreauputic> ikonia: there never is...
<wgrant> That's not the purpose of the channel, and it never works like that.
<thoreauputic> wgrant: snap :)
<Myrtti> thought of the moment: coffee + medication to the point my pee glows in the dark = happiness
<ikonia> I see that
<thoreauputic> wgrant: well you beat me to it :)
<wgrant> Myrtti: Um, riiight.
<Myrtti> painkillers â¥ 
<elkbuntu> Myrtti, taking vit b tabs?
<Myrtti> those too
<elkbuntu> that's what's making your pee fluro
<Myrtti> and c, and d, and a. and omega 3 and 6, and magnesium, and calcium.
<elkbuntu> i take multivit and glucosamine
<Myrtti> what's troublesome is that even when I'm taking vit b... my lips just chapped.
<Myrtti> :-(
<elkbuntu> you need liberal application of vit e
<bazhang> nice
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: maybe it needs a minute silence, with announcements that saying tha tit's out, when it's not, are not on.
<elkbuntu> hehehe
<Myrtti> tit's out <-- BAD TYPO
<elkbuntu> yeah. lets see how far peter crying wolf can go
<Myrtti> hobbsee saying that to elkbuntu made my head go WOOOOOOOTTTTT?!?!?!?!!!!
<Hobbsee> heh
<Pici> :o
<elkbuntu> Hobbsee, ok for me to clear the party ban list?
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: not sure. Probably.
<Hobbsee> depends if htey'll start spreading misinformation and such again
<elkbuntu> Hobbsee, in which case they go again.
<Hobbsee> right
<Myrtti> isitout! ISITOUTYET!?!
<Pici> !isitout | Myrtti 
<ubottu> Myrtti: Ask in #ubuntu-release-party - we don't know here
<Myrtti> oh. I was just thinking if your clearing the party ban list...
<Myrtti> I don't care really
<Pici> Myrtti: I know ;)
<Myrtti> MOAR COFFEE
<Gary> NO MILK :'(
 * Mez hands Myrtti the coffee beans he has in his cupboard but doesnt use
<Mez> (chocolate coated)
<pleia2> Myrtti: you get no cookies for tweeting blog entries that contain your tweets :(
<Myrtti> NOMNOMNOM
<Myrtti> CHOCOLATE
<Mez> I think I inherited them from Rob...
<jrib> LjL: make partybot ignore ubot3 please :)
<Myrtti> pleia2: I've been planning to work on that, but work has gotten in the way
<pleia2> work--
 * jrib waits for email
 * Mez sends jrib some spam
<Myrtti> pleia2: it sucks really badly. I'm having a friend over starting tomorrow for a week, and I haven't had a chance to do my laundry of last month nor to clean the place.
<Pici> I don't think I own a month's worth of clothes.
<Myrtti> ah, but you don't work at home.
<Myrtti> I can work buck nekkid in bed if I want to.
<Mez> Myrtti: hopefully, so can I soon *crosses fingers and pokes gregoire/fabien*
<pleia2> Myrtti: meep :\
 * pleia2 looks at basket of laundry next to her desk
<pleia2> should do that today
 * Mez ju8st did a wash
<Mez> got more than I remember
<Mez> but I generally have to do a wash every 2 days (cause work havent given me enough shirts!)
 * Mez gets home, wears a clean set of cloths for ~3 hours, then dumps it in wash and gets into uniform :)
<elkbuntu> you have a uniform? lol
<elkbuntu> i thought you were a codemonkey
<Mez> yeah - I'm not working in IT atm, am working in the gaming industry while finishing my degree
<elkbuntu> by 'the gaming industry' you mean at a games shop?
<Mez> no, a casino
<elkbuntu> ah
<Pici> Mez: hit me
 * Mez jumps into bed for an hour to play guitar hero
<Mez> Pici: We're not allowed to hit our customers, would you like a card?
<Mez> (my standard reply to ANYONE who says that to me)
<Pici> Mez: awww
<bazhang> tempting
<Hobbsee> a highlight on http:// would certainly be a decent idea, methinks.
<bazhang> what is mode z?
<Pici> bazhang: Allows ops to see muted people
<bazhang> ah thanks Pici 
<Pici> bazhang: also, they don't get the 'cannot send to channel' message
<bazhang> ouch
<Myrtti> Martiini is about to be kicked from -ot
<Pici> As he should
<Pici> Hes a troll
<Myrtti> I'll take personal pride in handling it
<Myrtti> he's also stalking me
<Myrtti> so.
<bazhang> really?
<bazhang> is that Martiini?
<Pici> Are we dealing with urp bans at all today?
<Hobbsee> yeah
<Hobbsee> well, no
<Myrtti> you ban
<Myrtti> you deal with them on Monday
<Myrtti> next question
<Hobbsee> i presume they'll release before the entire list gets used up
<Hobbsee> was planning to clear them in one swoop
<LjL> it's worse than the last time or is just my on-join impression
<bazhang> its worse
<bazhang> much
<Myrtti> hello nasser 
<Myrtti> how can we help you today?
<bazhang> now #u is like u-r-p
<nasser> hello 2
<nasser> Cannot join #ubuntu-release-party (You are banned).
<Myrtti> "oops"
<nasser> who can remove the ban
<Myrtti> what did you do!
<Hobbsee> posted a link, and disobeyed the /topic.
<Myrtti> oh DEAR!
<nasser> I port this link http://nl.releases.ubuntu.com/8.10/
<Myrtti> naughty
<nasser> port = post
<Myrtti> tut-tut
<Myrtti> it's not released yet!
<Myrtti> (is it?)
<Myrtti> it's not.
<Hobbsee> Myrtti: no, it's not, and some people can't be bothered to read and obey the topic, so aren't welcome in the channel.
<nasser> still banned
<Myrtti> OOPS.
<Myrtti> nasser: so please
<nasser> I want to join ;\
<Myrtti> nasser: tell me what you did wrong, and what have you done to assure us you will not repeat your error? or did you just assume that we'd remove the ban just like that?
<Myrtti> not that we will...
<nasser> I just posted link
<Myrtti> yes? and didn't read the topic?
<nasser> yes ...
<bazhang> nasser, and you were posting in #ubuntu
<Myrtti> "ooops"
<bazhang> nasser, dont do that anymore
<nasser> ok ....
<Myrtti> I guess it means that you're banned then
<nasser> I will never do it again
<Hobbsee> wow, cracked 500.
<LjL> now though, i'm feeling real silly to keep saying it's not out
<LjL> even the swedish mirror has the final iso :P
<Pici> LjL: But documentation is still being finalized, so its really not out yet
<Hobbsee> well, you hope it does.
<Hobbsee> it got respun yesterday, after being in the final place.
<Myrtti> WE CAN NEVER KNOW UNTIL THE RM SINGS!
<Myrtti> how to keep idiots in suspense... er I mean, Linuxists
<LjL> did the bot do the "delayed indefinitely" prank?
<LjL> (should have, probability was once in two hours)
<Hobbsee> LjL: a bit.  i didn't have time for it
<Hobbsee> oh, that.  right
<zomgzomgzomgzomg> can i get released back into #ubuntu-release-party
<Myrtti> no?
<zomgzomgzomgzomg> im just to excited i guess
 * Myrtti blows a stun gun dart at zomgzomgzomgzomg 
<Myrtti> sssllllleeeeep
 * Pici hmms
<Pici> Peak for #ubuntu-release-party@freenode: 784 (Thu Oct 18 07:33:08 2007)
<LjL> !torrents
<ubottu> Hardy can be torrented from http://releases.ubuntu.com/8.04/ubuntu-8.04-desktop-i386.iso.torrent or http://releases.ubuntu.com/8.04/ubuntu-8.04-server-amd64.iso.torrent depending on your architecture. Torrents for other Ubuntu flavours can be found at: http://releases.ubuntu.com/ (CD) or http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases (DVD).
<LjL> !no torrents is <reply> Intrepid can be torrented from http://hr.releases.ubuntu.com/8.10/ubuntu-8.10-desktop-i386.iso.torrent or http://se.releases.ubuntu.com/8.10/ubuntu-8.10-server-amd64.iso.torrent depending on your architecture. Torrents for other Ubuntu flavours can be found at: http://it.releases.ubuntu.com/ (CD) or http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases (DVD).
<ubottu> I'll remember that LjL
<nasser> #ubuntu-release-party I waaaaaant to join
<LjL> if you know other factoids that need load balancing, please do
<LjL> nasser: and i want a billion euros
<Myrtti> nasser: I want a handsome boyfriend with billion euros
<Myrtti> pllllllleeeeez
<nasser> ;\ I want a ticket to join this party from here
<LjL> Myrtti: i might eventually get the billion euros, but i'm sorry, the other part is a no-go
<Myrtti> damn.
<genii> @login
<ubottu> The operation succeeded.
<bazhang> floodbot just removed the ban on webmaster
<Pici> bazhang: Yeah, I saw.
<genii> @btlogin
<Pici> It was only a mute
<bazhang> Pici, okay
<LjL> you banned him by nickname...?
<Tm_T> btw I might need help in #k
<Tm_T> got crowded at times
<Tm_T> and I'm busy myself
<Tm_T> thank you sirs
<Pici> Tm_T: you have genii, he can handle it ;)
<genii> Tm_T: Here as well but I'm logged in now and will do what I can
<Tm_T> danke danke
<LjL> ubot3 now really should be editable...
<ubot3> LjL: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<LjL> those factoids need changing for -party
<nasser> !release
<Myrtti> nasser: to cut the chase...
<Myrtti> you're not going to be allowed in atleast until...
<Myrtti> mmmkay
<LjL> hah
<Myrtti> zomgzomgzomgzomg: so whazzup
<scientus> not much
<scientus> yeah its downloading now
<scientus> :)
<scientus> fast too
 * Pici looks at the topic
<Myrtti> right
<Pici> !idle | scientus 
<Myrtti> too late
<Pici> silly bot
<Pici> lagging
<Myrtti> ooh, you joined the channel
<scientus> well im still banned want to do anyrhing
<Myrtti> can you read the channel topic while you're at it?
<scientus> to help me
<Myrtti> thanks.
<Myrtti> I've got COOKIES
<Myrtti> I DON'T NEED SOUP!
<LjL> jussi01, stdin: i really think we'll need ubottu in -party... or something editable, anyway
<Pici> Hrm.  Ubottu is replying in pm..
<Pici> !ing
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about ing
<Pici> oh well, at least it knows what it doesnt know
<jussi01> ubottu: joun #ubuntu-release-party
<ubottu> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<jussi01> ubottu: join #ubuntu-release-party
<ubottu> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<jussi01> LjL: ^
<ikonia> it doesn't want to go
<LjL> jussi01: saw, thanks, hope it won't kill it
<ikonia> i don't blame it
<jussi01> LjL: me too.
<jussi01> LjL: it was there last time, so should be ok
<Myrtti> should we atleast part her from -offtopic?
<Myrtti> I think it might be a nice precaution
<LjL> nah, i'll take care of the -ot fellows
 * jussi01 giggles at the withdrawal symptoms in -ot
<jussi01> someone give them ubot3 or ubot5`... they hurt too much...
<LjL> poor angels :(
<LjL> i can't
<LjL> i meant devils
<LjL> ubotwo might be in a usable state perhaps
<LjL> but i can't be arsed to start it
<jussi01> I can give them failbot, but the factois are a bit old...
<jussi01> is that ok?
<Pici> !no
<ubottu> Hvis du vil diskutere pÃ¥ Norsk, vennligst gÃ¥ til #ubuntu-no. Takk!
<bazhang> failbot haha
<jussi01> seriously, failbot could be foun for a while
<LjL> Hobbsee...?
<jussi01> fun*
<Hobbsee> LjL: he's about to announce something
<Myrtti> oooooh
<Pici> bah, LjL 
<LjL> bah, Pici
<Hobbsee> man oh man...
<Hobbsee> this is worth watching
<Pici> Are we forwarding +1 to #u or rp?
<Hobbsee> not touching.  just watching.
<jussi01> release party is crazy...
<Hobbsee> Pici: i'd leave it for a slight bit, as people celebrate there too that it's done
<Tm_T> release done?
<Hobbsee> yes
<Hobbsee> Tm_T: #u-r-e suggests so..
<Tm_T> thanks
<ubottu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (flood)
<LjL> are we lagging *freenode* with the party? :o
<elkbuntu> #ubuntu is 1613 already
<elkbuntu> christel, is everything ok?
<jussi01>     wow, we are doing well
<christel> elkbuntu: i believe so yes :)
<jussi01> cant wait for a netsplit...
<bazhang> hehe
<Hobbsee> night all
<Pici> jussi01: don't jinx it
<Pici> Hobbsee: Goodnight ;)
<jussi01> nini Hobbsee
<bazhang> night Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> :)
<elkbuntu> LjL, you may cease panic :)
<Myrtti> !eol
<ubottu> End-Of-Life is the time when security updates for an Ubuntu release stop. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases
<Mez> what is the actual "It's officially out" trigger?
<Mez> oh, the email ;)
<ubottu> PartyBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join)
<bazhang> no more telling folks to go to #ubuntu+1 :)
<ikonia> it's messed up my channel numbering in irrsi
 * ikonia fumes
<Mez> how is it ikonia?
<Mez> just /win move it
<LjL> !intrepid
<ubottu> Intrepid Ibex is the code name for Ubuntu 8.10, due October 30th, 2008 - Introduction and new features: http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/810rc - Use #ubuntu+1 for support, NOT #ubuntu - Discuss and party in #ubuntu-release-party (type also Â« /topic Â»)
<ikonia> Mez: I'll tidy up, not to worry
<LjL> !intrepid is <reply> Intrepid Ibex (Ubuntu 8.10) is OUT! #ubuntu for support, #ubuntu-release-party for discussion and partying
<ubottu> But intrepid already means something else!
<LjL> !no intrepid is <reply> Intrepid Ibex (Ubuntu 8.10) is OUT! #ubuntu for support, #ubuntu-release-party for discussion and partying
<ubottu> I'll remember that LjL
<Pici> LjL: I *just* fixed them,
<Pici> arg
<Pici> no intrepid is <reply> Ubuntu 8.10 (Intrepid Ibex) is the current release of Ubuntu.  Downloading: http://releases.ubuntu.com/8.10/ - Features: http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/810 - Please use !torrents
<Mez> !hardy
<ubottu> Ubuntu 8.04-LTS (Hardy Heron) was the eighth release of Ubuntu. Downloading: http://releases.ubuntu.com/8.04 - See !lts for more details.
<LjL> Pici: it's a good idea to fix them publicly ;)
<LjL> it's pretty, you know, likely that we'd be editing the same factoids
<Pici> !no intrepid is <reply> Ubuntu 8.10 (Intrepid Ibex) is the current release of Ubuntu.  Downloading: http://releases.ubuntu.com/8.10/ - Features: http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/810 - Please use !torrents - Party in #ubuntu-release-party
<ubottu> I'll remember that Pici
<Pici> LjL: I literally did it 2 seconds before you did, and came here to !use it
<Pici> Anyway
<LjjjL> meh, xchat-gnome *is* stupid
<Pici> Thats what I hear
<LjjjL> Pici: i typed "/join #ubuntu-release-party" while it was busy (locked up) joining #ubuntu... and it missed the whole "/join" part
<Pici> jussi01, stdin: Can we get intrepid set as the default release for !info ?
<jussi01> sure
<Pici> Thanks :)
<stdin> @config plugins.Encyclopedia.searchorder
<ubottu> hardy
<stdin> @config plugins.Encyclopedia.searchorder intrepid
<ubottu> The operation succeeded.
<jussi01> @config supybot.plugins.PackageInfo.defaultRelease 
<ubottu> hardy
<jussi01> @config supybot.plugins.PackageInfo.defaultRelease intrepid
<ubottu> The operation succeeded.
<stdin> it doesn't really use PackageInfo, not directly anyway
<LjjjL> how about promoting the use of metalinks too
<Myrtti> metalinks?
<LjjjL> Myrtti: http://nl.releases.ubuntu.com/8.10/ubuntu-8.10-desktop-i386.metalink
<LjjjL> see www.metalinker.org
<LjjjL> "aria2" is a package that can use them
<Mez> me chuckles It's quite interesting watching my server seed the torrents ;)
<Myrtti> OH WOW! my DOWNLINK HAS BEEN UPGRADED!
<Myrtti> WOOOOO
<Myrtti> wohoo
<Myrtti> mmmmm
<Myrtti> 8/1
<Pici> congrats?
 * Myrtti nods with a grin
<Myrtti> 8/1 means better quality voip :->
<LjjjL> Hobbsee elkbuntu popey, do you also have the metalinks on your sites? (aside from the fact that many xx.releases.ubuntu.com sites work fine)
<LjjjL> i'm saturating my bandwidth using the metalink ;)
<elkbuntu> metalink?
<LjjjL> elkbuntu: see above
<LjjjL> programs that can use metalinks (namely, aria2) can download from multiple mirrors concurrently
<Pici> Myrtti: Do you mean thats 8mbit down and 1mbit up?
<LjjjL> load balancing for the mirrors, and fast speed for the downloader
<Myrtti> Pici: I had 2/1 before.
<Myrtti> Pici: yeah.
<Myrtti> I was the bottleneck before
<Myrtti> ie. couldn't receive as fast
<elkbuntu> LjL, i'd rather not operate an actual mirror
<Pici> Myrtti: I'm surprised.  I thought Finland had generally faster internet access than here.
<LjjjL> elkbuntu, you don't need to operate anything, a .metalink file is just a small bit of information like a .torrent file
<LjjjL> it just basicaly lists the mirrors available
<LjjjL> (should also list torrents IIRC)
<genii> Tm_T jussi01 and other #kubuntu -ers apologies on being MIA  work is a bit crazy right now
<Tm_T> genii: np
<jussi01> genii: alls good, we all have busy days/weeks
<LjjjL> wifi, grrrrr
<genii> Should I go /away when extended periods or not bother?
<LjjjL> it's generally a good idea to
<LjjjL> but not because you're an op, just because it's a good idea
<popey> people go /away for *days* or _shudder_ *weeks* from irc!?
<genii> LjjjL: OK. I usually detest doing it.
<genii> Gah weeks
<popey> my client /aways when i disconnect
<LjjjL> genii: err if you detest it, then don't do it, but why?
<Myrtti> I've got three different awayscripts :-D
<LjjjL> by the way, how do you suggest seeding the torrents with a CLI program and a NAT'd connection?
<Myrtti> bittornado.
<Myrtti> works.
<Myrtti> next question.
<genii> LjjjL: Holdover from telnet days I suppose is where the fear and loathing may come from
<elkbuntu> LjjjL, rtorrent in screen
 * Pici uses irssi and screen_away
<elkbuntu> Pici, for torrenting?
<thoreauputic> LjjjL: +1 for rtorrent in  screen
<Mez> http://tools.bitfolk.com/cacti/graphs/graph_649_5.png <-- *chuckles*
<Pici> What am I looking at>?
<elkbuntu> Pici, the blue line to the right
<popey> +1 rtorrent in screen
<jdong> indeed
<Mez> Pici: my bandwidth spiking as I started seeding 8.10
<Mez> (notice the blue line go UP)
<elkbuntu> Mez, you didnt see my rc seeding graph
<popey> Mez: http://tools.bitfolk.com/cacti/graph_376.html <- my vps on that host
<elkbuntu> Mez, elkbuntu.net/transfer
<popey> Mez: http://tools.bitfolk.com/cacti/graph_392.html
<Mez> popey: was about to say ;)
<Mez> popey: you seeding too ?
<popey> yeah
<Mez> what you using as the torrent program?
<popey> rtorrent
<popey> in a screen
 * Mez nods
<Mez> same here
<Mez> watch me geta massive bandwidth bill
<popey> nah
<Mez> nice graph elkbuntu ;)
<popey> i have 240G/month allocation
<LjjjL> should i use any particular options with rtorrent due to being on NAT - and for seeding?
<elkbuntu> Mez, i have to start one for release now
<LjjjL> i have the image downloaded already, i just need to seed it
<Mez> popey: what plan is that? 
 * Mez logs into panel to check his
<popey> Mez: dunno, i have had free upgrades over time
<popey> loyal customer
<Mez> popey: lucky you
<popey> LjjjL: should just work
 * Mez just has 3 VPSs (2 I pay for )(
<elkbuntu> doesnt seem like it's going to work...
<LjjjL> popey: in the man it mentions a couple of options specific for seeding
<popey> ooo, i have another vps - should seed on that too
<elkbuntu> popey, yah
<Mez> popey: It's a shame rtorrent doesnt do ipv6
<Mez> popey: I only have an 80G/month allowance :(
<jdong> Chain OUTPUT (policy ACCEPT 7069K packets, 9464M bytes)
<jdong> I have seeded 10G since this morning on one of my three seeders
<Myrtti> oh dear *sniffles*
<Myrtti> 8/1 means I can watch the unpacked iptv with vlc :')
<elkbuntu> Mez, calendar month?
<Mez> jdong: what are you seeding ?
<Mez> elkbuntu: er - yeah... 
<jdong> Mez: intrepid i386 and amd64
<Mez> though I think it might be 4 weeks...
<elkbuntu> Mez, and how much left to last the next 24hrs?
<elkbuntu> (ok, maybe a little longer than 24)
<Myrtti> FNBC is showing Jacques Cousteau!!!!1111
<Mez> elkbuntu: it's from the billing period - so I think it might be the 7th
<Mez> oh, no, this server is the 1st of the month ;)
<elkbuntu> and how much bw is left
<Mez> one sec, just checking
<Mez> elkbuntu: here ya go http://files.sourceguru.net/bw.jpg
 * Mez loves "capture screen to server"
<Myrtti> oooh, they're showing Little Mosque in the Prairie today!
<Mez> mosque?
<Myrtti> oops. I guess I should be downloading Ubuntu Intrepid and seeding it with my glorious 8/1, neh?
<thoreauputic> LjjjL: In the ~/.rtorrentrc define your ports (obviously forward them) - I use high ports in the 50-60000 range here 
<Myrtti> Mez: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Mosque_on_the_Prairie
<thoreauputic> LjjjL: you can also turn on dht in rtorrent now
<Mez> dht?
<jdong> Mez: distributed hash tables
<jdong> mesh networked trackerless peer location
 * Mez is off for a bit
<thoreauputic> distributed hash table
<jdong> good for when the tracker dies
<jdong> or if you want to be really mean to your neighborhood routers :)
<thoreauputic> jdong: heh it certainly adds a lot of connections - little domestic routers can have problems with it
<thoreauputic> limited nat tables I think?
<jdong> well it's almost a certain death sentence over the course of a day to most home NAT routers :)
<jdong> but at times it is also pretty bandwidth-intensive in UDP and causes good routers to start discarding UDP too
<thoreauputic> jdong: seems ok here with my little cheapie
<jdong> neighbors on Skype may not be happy with you
<jdong> good to hear
<jdong> the problem with DHT and UDP is that it's nearly impossible to rate-limit the # of connections
<Myrtti> ok, need... to... shut... down... the... program... with... pwetty... whales... NAO
<jdong> "connections"
<Myrtti> arrrgghhhhh
<thoreauputic> jdong: if I leave a torrent running for long enough it clags up though :)
<thoreauputic> days usually
<jdong> right
<ubottu> Odd-rationale called the ops in #ubuntu-release-party (kick PartyBot1)
<LjL> check  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Download  for accuracy
<thoreauputic> jdong: affecting the neighbours would only apply on cable I assume - adsl2+ here
<thoreauputic> re:udpand skype etc.
<PriceChild> Things going ok?
<stdin> relativity peaceful
<Pici> jussi01, stdin: #ubuntu's !info is still using hardy
<Myrtti> it shouldn't be
<stdin> @channel #ubuntu plugins.Encyclopedia.searchorder
<ubottu> hardy
<jussi01> !info waon
<ubottu> waon (source: waon): A Wave-to-Notes transcriber. In component universe, is extra. Version 0.8-0ubuntu2 (intrepid), package size 84 kB, installed size 240 kB
<stdin> ahh
<stdin> @channel #ubuntu plugins.Encyclopedia.searchorder intrepid
<ubottu> The operation succeeded.
<PriceChild> something must be wrong
<stdin> someone overrode the value for #ubuntu
<Myrtti> what's the theoretical maximum of my dl if I've got 8/1 Mb/s?
<Myrtti> maths, I suck in it
<Myrtti> aw socks. is it that late already
<Pici> 1MB/s iirc
<Myrtti> peak rate of downloading the torrents is 730KiB/s currently
<stdin> depends on how your ISP works, I had 4Mb/s but could only use 3Mb/s to download
<Myrtti> MOAR BYTES!
<Pici> nomnomnom
<jussi01> Myrtti: ~800kb/s
<jussi01> it basically works out mbit speed x 100 = download speed in kb
<Pici> uh.  8 bits in a byte.. divide by 8
<Myrtti> so, if I'm getting 750, it's ok?
<Myrtti> 1 day, 4 hours, 21 minutes \o/
 * Myrtti goes to clean the place up
<Pici> Until... firday?
<Pici> er, saturday
<Myrtti> until it's 2300 :-P
 * Myrtti goes
<Myrtti> oh for GODS SAKE
<Myrtti> my stalkers seem to be awake today
<jussi01> putting ubottu back to -ot, as the load is significantly less than I though in -release-party
<jussi01> ubottu: join #ubuntu-offtopic
<ubottu> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<Myrtti> mmm kebab
<Mez> Myrtti: onna stick?
<Myrtti> dÃ¶ner, whatever
<Mez> ah, I like those, but stereotypically for drunken people... so - kinda a bad reputation
<ubottu> pppoe_dude called the ops in #ubuntu ()
<jussi01> !autostart-#kubuntu
<ubottu> To make programs autostart with your KDE session, you can make a link to it in ~/.kde/Autostart. The package 'kcontrol-autostart' makes a kcontrol item for handling items in that directory. For a complete guide, see http://jucato.org/kde/kde-autostart.html
<jussi01> !no, autostart-#kubuntu is <reply>To make programs autostart with your KDE session, you can make a link to it in ~/.kde/Autostart. In KDE 3.X the package 'kcontrol-autostart' makes a kcontrol item for handling items in that directory. For a complete KDE 3.X guide, see http://jucato.org/kde/kde-autostart.html
<ubottu> I'll remember that jussi01
<jussi01> !autostart-#kubuntu
<ubottu> To make programs autostart with your KDE session, you can make a link to it in ~/.kde/Autostart. In KDE 3.X the package 'kcontrol-autostart' makes a kcontrol item for handling items in that directory. For a complete KDE 3.X guide, see http://jucato.org/kde/kde-autostart.html
<lifestream> Hello , not sure if this is the correct place, but how can I check if this username is available? It says registered, but is it possible to see the last time it was used? It's my name verywhere on the web, and I'd love to snatch it for IRC too :P
<pleia2> lifestream: probably want to try #freenode
<pleia2> this is for ubuntu channel help, we don't do freenode server stuff
<lifestream> Thanks kindly  :)
<jussi01> lifestream: anything else we can help you with?
<lifestream> Oops, forgot to leave the channel x-D Sorries! *waves ^^
<Myrtti> !search usb
<ubottu> Found: label, palm, udev rules, usb
<Myrtti> !usb
<ubottu> For information about installing Ubuntu from USB flash drives, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick - For a persistent live USB install, see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveUsbPendrivePersistent
<jussi01> we need to update that now usb-creator exists
<jussi01> !inf usb-creator
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about inf usb-creator
<jussi01> !info usb-creator
<ubottu> usb-creator (source: usb-creator): Ubuntu USB desktop image creator. In component main, is optional. Version 0.1.9 (intrepid), package size 20 kB, installed size 192 kB
<jussi01> its brilliant!
<nekostar> interesting....
<nalioth> can we help you, nekostar?
<nekostar> nalioth was getting heckled.. just going to idle here
<nekostar> srry
<nekostar> i need to know who is really opped
<Myrtti> where?
<nekostar> i take it v here == ubuOP ?
<Myrtti> not really
<nekostar> Myrtti if it was really an issue i would of said 
<nekostar> kk
<Myrtti> /msg chanserv access <channel> list
<nalioth> nekostar: this is not a channel for idling
<Myrtti> if I'm not terribly wrong
<nekostar> nalioth i know that.
<nekostar> Myrtti your right but not being ON the list at a certain level i dont think i can axx that
<nalioth> nekostar: you're thinking of the FLAGS command
<nekostar> nowai
<nekostar> worx perfect thanx!
<ubottu> not_jrib called the ops in #ubuntu (jescutie)
<Myrtti> please, tell me, how can a story about my accidental pasting stuff to a identica xmpp bot be TMI?
<Flannel> Myrtti: That's way too personal of information to share with the internet, sheesh.
<Flannel> Don't you have any sense of privacy?
<Flannel> Have you no shame?
 * jussi01 chuckles
<Myrtti> and for your information: THERE IS NO GENDER IN THE INTERHWEBS. There's only androgynic LEGO people!
<Flannel> Myrtti: now now, I don't want to hear you talking about your lego nubs.
<jdong> Myrtti: lego people have gender....
 * jdong pulls out the diagram
<Tm_T> erm
<ubottu> Flare183 called the ops in #ubuntu (nekostar)
<Tm_T> I need my sleep now
<Tm_T> Myrtti: good night little sister, it's almost d-day
<Tm_T> try get some sleep ->
<Flare183> nekostar is not following the ubuntu irc rules
<Tm_T> Flare183: use ! ops call please
<jussi01> Flare183: Im watching the situation
<Tm_T> jussi01: thanks
<Flare183> I already have
<Flare183> No one did anything
<Tm_T> ah, this one
<Myrtti> Tm_T: nini dear
<Tm_T> anyway, really, sleep kids ->
<jussi01> Flare183: out of curiousity, in your opinion, what is he doing now that warrants a kick/ban?
<Flare183> repeatly saying lol omg, etc. and abusing the bot
<Flare183> Like everytime I would ask him to pls don't go offtopic, he would
<jussi01> Flare183: ok, Im watching it, he has been ok for a bit so Ill handle it if and when it happens again
<Flare183> ok thanks
<jussi01> man #u is crazy...
<jussi01> Ok, Im off for a bit, someone watch #u...
<wgrant> Why is PartyBot still saying it's not out?
<jussi01> because LjL hasnt stopped it...
<jussi01> and its evil...
<wgrant> Heh.
<jussi01> we cant mute it cause its opped... hrm...
<PriceChild> It can be removed.
<PriceChild> i guess it can't be deopped?
<jussi01> doesnt it reop itsself?
<wgrant> Isn't it setting -e on mibbit people?
<wgrant> We can check...
<PriceChild> oh yes it is
<jussi01> yeah, thats what I thought
<PriceChild> but there's #ubuntu and -offtopic :/
<jussi01> LjL: had some special setup happening
<jussi01> anyway, I really ought to go to bed...
<jussi01> nini all
<wgrant> Can somebody abolish !xgl or something?
<wgrant> Xgl is dead.
<PriceChild> !xgl
<ubottu> Compiz (compositing window manager) and XGL (X server architecture layered on top of OpenGL) - Howto at http://help.ubuntu.com/community/CompositeManager - help in #compiz-fusion
<Myrtti> !forget xgl
<ubottu> I'll forget that, Myrtti
<Myrtti> something else?
<LjL> wgrant: i "forgot" to stop it
<LjL> anyway, it's not really doing anything on mibbit people, since they're very free to join -party to begin with
<LjL> it's just stopping floods
<wgrant> Ah.
<elkbuntu> ha. she's at it again, and forgetting the / <emma> query OzoneNerd
<wgrant> Heh.
<PriceChild> elkbuntu: where?
<elkbuntu> -party
<PriceChild> fun fun fun
<LjL> wgrant: but seriously, maybe everyone else here knows how to fiddle with the new X and everything else too by heart, but myself i'm getting a bit out of touch with new ways of doing things, the fact that when someone complains about their screen not showing up right i cannot make them reconfigure xorg.conf is... strange
<wgrant> LjL: You can make them reconfigure xorg.conf.
<wgrant> You just need to add 3 lines to it.
<wgrant> But that's only needed if you need to add new modes.
<wgrant> And will be entirely unnecessary in Jaunty.
<wgrant> Input devices need to now be configured elsewhere, but we're discussing a GUI for all of that at 
<wgrant> *at UDS
<Hobbsee> LjL: I don't.
<jrib> wgrant: "add 3 lines to it"?  documentation?
<Madpilot> 1400+ in #u - I see the insanity is ongoing
<PriceChild> wasn't there 1600 earlier?
<Madpilot> no idea
<Madpilot> I assume the release is officially out? (been AFK all day...)
<PriceChild> I might be getting figures mixed up, tired.
<PriceChild> Yup.
<jdong> Chain OUTPUT (policy ACCEPT 107M packets, 153G bytes)
<Hobbsee> yes, it is
<jdong> yeah!
<Hobbsee> jdong: as in, you've torrented 153gb worth?
<jdong> yeah
<jdong> on one of my systems
<Hobbsee> nice.
<Hobbsee> 70gb here :)
<jdong> awesome
<Hobbsee> i think so :)
<jdong> hopefully that keeps the torrents moving well
<jdong> heard mostly good reports of torrent speeds
<Hobbsee> yeah
<Hobbsee> looks like there are ltos of seeders on the i386 desktop
<Madpilot> not as many for i386 alt, tho. I always use the alt CD for upgrades, so much faster to torrent & burn a CD
<Hobbsee> yeah...
<Hobbsee> i was surprised about that
<Hobbsee> not many desktop amd64, either
<Madpilot> OK, that's interesting... fewer seeders/peers on the alt BT, but I get *faster* downloads than off the desktop torrent. Odd.
<Hobbsee> Madpilot: i get a suspicion that the torrent program doesn't really cope so well with really large numbers of people
<Madpilot> could be
<Madpilot> 87seeds/19peers for desktop; 73 & 12 for alt... not a huge difference, but alt is coming in ~40% faster.
 * Madpilot wonders why Gnome went with Transmission as default BT, when Deluge is so much nicer...
<jdong> Madpilot: deluge packaging is a bit scary, and upstream is as bit less consistent about releasing
<jdong> Madpilot: oh yeah their early pre-0.5.x.x track record with rm -rf bugs doesn't help either :D
<Madpilot> heh
<Madpilot> I think it's also a Mono app, so all the "Mono is MS poison" crowd would get excited about that too
<jdong> Deluge is Python and C
<jdong> the C library isn't shared by much else
<jdong> MonoTorrent (aka Monsoon) is Mono
<jdong> I actually like that code base better
<jdong> it's a much better API for torrents... should allow for some really neat bittorrent-powered apps
<Hobbsee> how does one drop all bans in a channel?
<PriceChild> Hobbsee: /msg chanserv help clear bans
<PriceChild> or the long way :)
<Hobbsee> [10:54] [Notice] -ChanServ- You are not authorized to perform this operation.
<PriceChild> you probably need +r or something. Which channel?
<Hobbsee> #u-r-p
<PriceChild> ah, +R
<christel> Hobbsee: or just /unban *
<Hobbsee> christel: doesn't seem to wokr :)
<PriceChild> someone showed me "/op *"s warning in irssi today which was amusing, but still didn't work with the extra flag (
<Myrtti> *yawn*
<PriceChild> Was that maybe your client trying to be clever Hobbsee? Try a random channel and use quote?
<Myrtti> irssi goodness-
<Myrtti> nom.
<Myrtti> bed.
<Myrtti> tata
<PriceChild> Night Myrtti.
<christel> Hobbsee: what PriceChild said, it should work, well, it works in irssi :x
<genii> @login
<ubottu> The operation succeeded.
<Myrtti> :-----D
<Myrtti> hihihihihih
 * Myrtti huggles christel 
 * christel hugs Myrttibabe
<Seeker`> how many bans did #u-r-p pick up ?
#ubuntu-ops 2008-10-31
<PriceChild> 7x4 +3
<PriceChild> 31?
<genii> Heh
<Seeker`> not too bad
<christel> :)
<christel> happy elkbuntu day!
 * genii checks his calendar
<LjL> i'm sure it's nice to get old
<christel> hehe
<genii> It's elkbuntu's bday?
<LjL> so they say
 * genii ponders what gifts an elk might like
<genii> Are part messages with profanity considered an issue?
<nalioth> usually
<genii> nalioth: How are they dealt with, since user has left by that point
<nalioth> talk to them the next time they visit?
 * genii makes a note
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: could well have been
<genii> @login
<ubottu> The operation succeeded.
<jrib> genii: I ban forward them to this channel and leave a note on the ban tracker
<genii> jrib: OK, thanks
<Flannel> tritium: I imagine that's actually spam instead of just OT
<tritium> True.
<elkbuntu> genii, sometimes sending a memo thru the services is enough
<elkbuntu> genii, some people dont realise there's some unkind default ones in clients like bitchx
<genii> Hmm
<jrib> hal is pretty hot after you get over the fact documentation seems to be hidden away and policy files are in xml
<genii> Geez. #kubuntu is buzzing
<Flannel> genii: Welcome to post-release madness!
<genii> Hehe
<genii> You'd think there'd be at least one other helper with support though...
<Flannel> genii: Hopefully they're coming! ;)
<genii> Flannel: I'm overextended :(
<Flannel> genii: Don't feel like you have to do it all.  Can't do everything.
<Flannel> genii: Also, point non-kubuntu specific things to #u, and we'll take care of them
<genii> I'm workin on it
<genii> I have to leave soon for sleep ... bleh
<skyfaller_ppc> hey folks... can someone with op powers fix the /topic for #ubuntu-powerpc to reflect Intrepid Ibex's release?
<tritium> Gah!  The firefox location bar history is super annoying!
<wgrant> tritium: You mean the awesomebar that has been around since Hardy?
<tritium> wgrant: yes, I've hated it since then
<wgrant> I can't live without it
<tritium> Tonight, I clicked a BBC article once from the "Latest Headlines", and now it's permanently part of my location bar history.
<Flannel> tritium: Did you delete it with shift-delete?
<wgrant> The delete key is your friend.
 * nalioth uses galeon - stuck in the 20th century
<tritium> I've tried deleting it, and even clearing my entire private data.
<wgrant> Is the Shift necessary?
<tritium> Flannel: yes.
<wgrant> nalioth: Not even Epiphany!?
<nalioth> epiphany blows, imho
<tritium> No method of deletion clears it.
<jdong> nalioth: gasp! :)
<Flannel> wgrant: it used to be.  I haven't used FF3 so I have no idea.
 * tritium will rm -rf ~/.mozilla, and start all over
<nalioth> tritium: i suggest you look for ~/.mozilla-firefox and ~/.firefox and others
<Flannel> tritium: before you do that, you might ask in #firefox on irc.mozilla.org
<tritium> It's a brand-new install, and I had nothing worth preserving.
<wgrant> nalioth: It's ~/.mozilla/firefox/blahblahblah.default
<nalioth> wgrant: there are others
<wgrant> nalioth: That's where Firefox keeps its settings.
<nalioth> wgrant: i guess all mine are because my system hasn't been reinstalled in years
<nalioth> from when ff kept it's settings elsewhere
<tritium> wgrant: I also dislike my bookmarks in the location bar history (yes, I've seen that can be disabled)
<tritium> Whoever is designing their latest user interface features is on crack, or something
<wgrant> I hate Mozilla, but that's one thing they got right.
<tritium> heh ;)
<nalioth> firefox is becoming the thing it originally was designed to escape from
<wgrant> It is.
<Flannel> nalioth: It has been slowly creeping that way since post 1.5
<Flannel> or, not so slowly, in some cases.
<tritium> I've got an early flight tomorrow.  Good night!
<Myrtti> ggggggggrrrrrrraaahh
 * nalioth hands Myrtti some [myrtti's favorite hot beverage] with whiskey in it
<Madpilot> morning Myrtti 
 * Myrtti rubs her eyes
<Myrtti> this is not a time for Myrtti's to wake up
<Myrtti> in the spirit of xkcd...
<Myrtti> Good morning from Cambridgeshire, UK.
<Myrtti> skyfaller_ppc: what would you like the topic to be?
<skyfaller_ppc> Myrtti: how about the same thing as now, except replace the "Hardy released!" with "Intrepid released!" and the new URL for downloading it: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ports/releases/intrepid/release/
<Myrtti> skyfaller_ppc: you're welcome
<Myrtti> skyfaller_ppc: if you need something in the topic to be fixed...
<Myrtti> skyfaller_ppc: *anyone* with ubuntu member cloak can do it. You seem to have several such people in the channel already.
<Flannel> Myrtti: In -ppc?
<skyfaller_ppc> thanks :)
<Myrtti> Flannel: well... look at the access list...
<Flannel> Myrtti: I havent but if thats what it says, sure.
<Myrtti> 4     *!*@ubuntu/member/*    +votiA
<Myrtti> skyfaller_ppc: is there anything else we can help you with?
<skyfaller_ppc> nope, that's it :)  have a good night!
<skyfaller_ppc> or morning
<Myrtti> pleia2: re: about tweeting blog entries that contain my tweets: but they contain my jaikus and dents as well... so it's not actually a bad thing that I'm tweeting them
<Myrtti> pleia2: what annoys me is that all jaiku entries aren't tweeted as well.
<ubot3> In #ubuntu-release-party, DanaG said: !wrong is You're Doing It Wrong.
<ubottu> In #ubuntu-release-party, DanaG said: !wrong is You're Doing It Wrong.
<Myrtti> !wrong
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about wrong
<ubottu> ziroday called the ops in #ubuntu (strAlan is a troll)
<Flannel> !isitout ~= s/its/it's/
<ubottu> I'll remember that Flannel
<Flannel> isitout
<Flannel> er
<Flannel> !isitout
<ubottu> Yes it's out!
<ziroday> Hi, is there a factoid for the new private folder thingy yet?
 * ziroday knocks on the ops door again
<esac> hi, anyan refuses to listen to !cn requests on #ubuntu and continue to use non-english
<esac> same with jianjun
<esac> thanks
<ikonia> out of interest how long does u-r-p stay open for after the release ?
<Myrtti> perhaps a week or so
<Myrtti> two at best
<Myrtti> atleast over the nearest weekend
<Myrtti> release parties tend to be then more than in the middle of the week
<Myrtti> s/^/IRL /
<Myrtti> I feel anxious and nervous... my project manager hasn't been online on xmpp for two days
<ubottu> In ubottu, ziroday said: !privatefolder is To setup an encrypted private directory please look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EncryptedPrivateDirectory
<Myrtti> TuniX12: how may we help you?
<ubottu> In ubottu, ziroday said: !ooo3 is OpenOffice.org 3 is not in Ubuntu 8.10 because it didn't make it in time. However you can get it from the OpenOffice.org Scribblers PPA at https://launchpad.net/~openoffice-pkgs/+archive
<TuniX12> sorry wrong place
<Pici> !alternate =~ s/checkbox/link/
<ubottu> I'll remember that Pici
<genii> @login
<ubottu> The operation succeeded.
<genii> Good morning, afternoon, or evening
<Myrtti> moin.
<genii> Myrtti: Moin :)
<jussi01> Im going to AUSTRALIA :D
<jussi01> HOME!!
<Pici> wauw
 * Myrtti sits silent and smiles :-D
<jussi01> sorry... kinda excited...
<LjL> jussi01: australia is your home?
<jussi01> LjL: correct - Im an Aussie...
<Pici> For some reson I already knew that
<Tm_T> (:)
<jussi01> Pici: Ive said it in channel before, and PriceChild always gives me crap...
<LjL> but jussi is a finnish name isn't it
<LjL> you've just like messed up my vision of the world :P
<genii> He's his own multi-national  ;)
<jussi01> LjL: yeah, jussi is a finnish name - I had my name changed a few years back :)
<jussi01> I was (and still am) Joshua
<jussi01> My Full name is Jussi Joshua John Schultink
<LjL> ...
 * LjL withholds comments
<Pici> jjjjjjjjjjj
<LjL> i mean, i love the letter j but
<Pici> oh, sorry.
<jussi01> hehe
<Pici> My finger slipped
<Myrtti> ... hello, says Miia Merja Marjukka Ranta
<jussi01> hahaha
<Pici> mmmmmmmmmmmmm ;)
<genii> I think that family with 17 or 18 kids... all of them start with "J" too
<LjL> Myrtti: you don't have "Meh"?
<Myrtti> AND I HAVEN'T CHANGED A THING
<Myrtti> they're all given to me.
<jussi01> genii: My family has 12 children...
<Myrtti> damnit.
<LjL> jussi01: why did you change the name anyway if you don't mind asking?
<Tm_T> genii: my father and his bros and sis's are all starting with L
<jussi01> LjL: a variety of reasons, including the fact that my inlaws have always called me Jussi, and its a lot easier for finns because they say J funny :D
<LjL> jussi01: as "y" in "yellow"?
<jussi01> LjL: yeah
<jussi01> Joshua sounds a bit funny like that
<LjL> it's not funny, it's the original pronounciation of "j" :P
<genii> Gotta go /away  on a trip to Home Depot dunno return time
<jussi01> they say here: yohsua
<Myrtti> My nephew has always been called Erkki by us Finns
<LjL> ah right they don't have "sh" either
<jussi01> yeah
<LjL> Myrtti: which is, in reality?
<Myrtti> Eric
<LjL> ... that doesn't sound *so* hard to pronounce :P
<Myrtti> it isn't
<Myrtti> but there's this one American soap in Finland that used to be really popular in mid 90's. The eldest, gray haired patron in it is Eric.
<LjL> Myrtti: aaaw, how advertizement can ruin otherwise pretty decent names forever
<Myrtti> s/soap/soap serial tv show/
<Myrtti> so...
<Myrtti> not even adverts...
<LjL> same thing
<LjL> possibly worse
<LjL> jussi01: but are you just going back to australia and that's it, or are you returning to trolland?
<LjL> sorry, finland
<Pici> oooh
<bazhang> whoops
<jussi01> LjL: im going for a holiday...
<jussi01> rofl
<Pici> jussi01: Are you changing your name for the trip?
 * LjL chuckles
<LjL> yoossie
<jussi01> Pici: My passport hasnt been updated yet - so I will travel as Joshua until I get a new one - this trip.
<LjL> that's another soap, "an aussie named youssie"
<jussi01> I have a 10 year passport...
 * LjL has actually been pondering trying to learn some finnish lately
<ikonia> ja
<ikonia> ;)
<LjL> but then i think it just isn't as easy a trip as swedish
<LjL> ikonia: i don't think they say "ja" :P
<ikonia> I heard mikka hakkinen say it
<Pici> da
<ikonia> that makes it fact
<LjL> ... while he was speaking english? :P
<ikonia> ha ha ha
<LjL> i've seen torvalds writing "those fucking gnome developers", but i think that's neither a swedish nor a finnish idiom :P
<jrib> ha
<ikonia> LjL was he speaking french ;P
<LjL> ikonia: i think he said something to that effect :P
<ikonia> I crave the day when gnome and kde may live in peace
<ikonia> and e17 will rest in peice ;)
<jrib> pieces?
<ikonia> correct
<ikonia> I was speaking japanese
<jrib> someone fix session management in gnome 2.24, thanks
<ikonia> jrib: done
<ikonia> please update
<LjL> i crave the day when they'll realize kde 4 is evil and they'll resume 3 development ;(
<ikonia> desktop war is interesting as ti both futhers but also holds back the linux desktop
<jrib> yep, can't wait to see a tiling window manager as default in gnome
<LjL> ikonia: it's like cold war, you always live in expectation of something that won't happen, but that also stops other countless countries from making hundreds smaller wars ;)
<elkbuntu> jussi01, so is it yussie or yoosie?
<elkbuntu> just out of curiosity
<LjL> more like oo
<LjL> finnish "u" should be the same as italian "u"
<ikonia> ahh the aussie wakes
<ikonia> g'day
<Pici> wakka wakka wakka
<LjL> then if i have to explain how italian "u" differs from english "oo"... :<
<ikonia> u'za lookin nice
<ikonia> that sort of ialian u
<Pici> !u
<ubottu> Unless you're Dutch or Flemish, or a government officer, the letter 'U' is not a pronoun.  If you want to be taken more seriously, please bother to type out the extra letters in "you".  The same goes for "are", "why", "because", "anyone", and so on..
<jussi01> elkbuntu: yussie, with a long s
<LjL> no, i think dutch "u" sounds a little different :P
<jrib> a government officer?
<Pici> ayetalian
<ikonia> ha ha
<Tm_T> jussi01: "Jussi" is "jussi" in finnish, simple? (;)
<jussi01> elkbuntu: ie. say yus-sie
<elkbuntu> jussi01, cool, that's how i always prounounced it with my 'inner voice' anyway
<LjL> Pici: my cousin (i'm giving some english refreshers to) says "it'sa good"
 * ikonia backs away from stereo types
<jrib> I read his name as "juicy"
<LjL> Pici: fortunately *she* is not called "Mario"
 * jussi01 slaps jrib
 * ikonia pinches ljl's bottom
<Pici> LjL: Luigi?
<ikonia> is that italian enough ?
<LjL> Pici: ...
<ikonia> wario 
<ikonia> donkey kong ?
<Tm_T> slapario
<elkbuntu> LjL, i really have to corner you on skype sometime. i wanna hear your italian accent
<LjL> the day will come when italian will be the international language and you'll all be mocked for your silly gliding vowels :P
<Tm_T> awww
<LjL> elkbuntu: meh, you could as well try to bring peace to the world in an hour
 * ikonia hails are new italian overlord
<Tm_T> glad noone likes to hear my voice
<Tm_T> back compiling KDE4 ->
<LjL> elkbuntu: i tried speaking english on the internet once. i felt so dumb i'll just never do it again :P
<elkbuntu> LjL, right, so getting your sister to convince you to come here is the better option?
<LjL> elkbuntu: i do spoken versions of wikipedia articles, make do with those :P
<elkbuntu> LjL, i'm sure you'll do fine
<LjL> elkbuntu: convince the airlines to charge less than â¬2000 for that first :P
<Pici> I sang on the internet once.. bet I felt more foolish
<elkbuntu> i remember when i thought you were a native english speaker, because your written english is so perfect.
<LjL> Pici: oooh...
<LjL> that sounds bad.
<Pici> It probably did.
<LjL> elkbuntu: you're apparently not the only one, but i *assure* you that my spoken english is an entirely different thing
<ikonia> elkbuntu: I concur
<LjL> i've been writing english on the internet since 97
<LjL> i have never been speaking english
<ikonia> <snip>
<ikonia> thats such an advert
<LjL> an advert?
<ikonia> LjL: writing english on the internet since 1997
<LjL> ...
<LjL> i've also never been unbottled since
<LjL> always kept in fresh canteens
<ikonia> LjL: there are adverts in the uk, that are like "jones, baking bread since 1902"
<ikonia> LjL: "granny smith, putting apple in your pie since 1994"
<ikonia> etc
<LjL> ikonia: yes i know, but how else should i have said it :P
<ikonia> just ammused me
<jussi01> LjL: since when does it cost 2000Â¤ to go to Australia? I just bought a return trip for 1300Â¤
<LjL> LjL: been a real nerd since 1997
<elkbuntu> anyway, what's so wrong with a private convo. it's not like i'm going to record it and bare you to the intarwebs
<Pici> "LjL: Talking to himself since 1997"
<ikonia> elkbuntu: or so you say
<Tm_T> indeed
<LjL> jussi01: Â¤ is a nice currency, pity it doesn't really mean anything :P anyway, 1300+1300 is *more* than 2000 innit
<LjL>  /kick pici
<jussi01> LjL: no, the return was 1300 euro - for both ways!
<jussi01> so total of 1300 for the whole trip
<LjL> jussi01: *shrug* well my sister paid 2000. anyway, 1300 is still a creepy lot of money.
<elkbuntu> jussi01, are you coming alone?
<LjL> i think i never flew anything that cost more than â¬200 :)
<jussi01> elkbuntu: yeah
<Tm_T> LjL: I have never been flying
<Tm_T> if throwing to wall isn't counted
<LjL> elkbuntu: there's of course nothing "wrong" with a private conversation... but i'm like this, i just don't like being in a situation that makes me feel dumb, and moreover when i do feel dumb i forget even the things i usually know
<LjL> Tm_T: i haven't flown a lot but i've taken my share of planes
<LjL> went to edinburgh, athens...
 * jussi01 is a seasoned traveller...
<Tm_T> I have been in Tampere now twice!
 * Tm_T hides
<jussi01> Tm_T: and Oulu!
<ikonia> LjL what did you think of edinburgh
<LjL> back from sicily (i went there by car with my friends, but then i got pissed at them and come back)...
<Tm_T> jussi01: true! (:
<elkbuntu> haha
<LjL> ikonia: i hated the college-or-whatever-one-would-call-it we were in. it was just about the worst holiday i ever had, for a number of reasons i'd rather not even recall
<LjL> ikonia: but strangely that made the city itself seem wonderful
<ikonia> i don't like it either
<ikonia> I like the buildings, but I didn't get on with scotland
<ikonia> glasgow was 6 months of hell
<LjL> i hated glasgow, we had a short trip there
<LjL> it was perhaps 97
<LjL> anyway that year glasgow was awarded something
<ikonia> I was 199
<ikonia> 1999
<ikonia> that would ahve been 98 then
<LjL> best city of dontrememberwhat
<ikonia> they where still rattleing the spears in 1999
<LjL> anyway i got an awful impression, it looked a bit like milan in some ways
<LjL> i.e. you've got nothing but you make it show like you've got everything
<LjL> not to be too harsh, it was a one-day trip and i didn't even see that much
<ikonia> not harsh at all
<LjL> but it just made me think, meh
<LjL> like milan now really, which is getting on my nerves, "fashion city" my pants
<ikonia> LjL have you been to portofino ?
<LjL> do some less fashion and some more being-a-city
<Myrtti> aaarrggg http://www.thesneeze.com/mt-archives/000707.php
<LjL> ikonia: nope
<LjL> Myrtti: ...
<Myrtti> :-DDDDDDDDDDD
 * LjL figures a robot prepares them
<Pici> Yum.. a none pizza.
<ikonia> thats made me laugh
<Myrtti> :-------DDDDDD
 * ikonia is rocking out in the office
<ikonia> MMmmmm vintage 80's
<LjL> italians can invent pizza
<LjL> but it takes americans (or lacking that, brits) to bring it to the next level
<ikonia> Mmmm italian pizza
<Mez> mmmm pizza *noms*
<Tm_T> mmm turkish making pizza in finland <3
<LjL> ikonia: although, the food at that college was so terribly i eventually became a regular at Pizza Hut
<LjL> ikonia: just, i remember once i finished my pizza at just one minute later than 7:30pm, and that's when the last 27 bus passes. and i was in a t-shirt.
<LjL> i remembered that pizza for a while.
<ikonia> ha ha
<LjL> that's another thing about edinburgh (and perhaps UK cities in general), you can't just make buses stop at half past seven!
<ikonia> we can't make public transport work - the end
<LjL> i know you're virtuous and wake up early and go to bed early, but meh
<LjL> *we* complain that you can't find a tram after 1:30am :P
<LjL> ikonia: also there's two other bus-related episodes i remember
<LjL> ikonia: both related to your queue mania
<ikonia> we queue like animals
<ikonia> I'm in london this week and I'm so tired of fighting with people in queues
<LjL> ikonia: first there were a few scots waiting for the bus, and when "we the italians" approached in a group, they just calmly stood up and went their way, completely renouncing their bus without even trying
<ikonia> ha ha
<LjL> ikonia: the other time was when i dropped by wallet - containing a copious amount of coins - in front of the bus driver. the way everyone in the queue looked at me didn't kill me, but wounded me seriously
<LjL> s/by/my/
<ikonia> ha ha
<jussi01> ikonia: know any places that are good (and cheap) to stay, somewhere betwe manchester and london?
 * jussi01 is going to have to find a place for 2 nights...
<ikonia> jussi01 birmingham is between manchester and london
<jussi01> ikonia: yes... but a little more specific...
<ikonia> jussi01: if you come to Bath where I live I can put you up - thats about 2 hours from Manchester on the train and 1.5 hours from London
<jussi01> ikonia: really?
<ikonia> what dates ?
<jussi01> 10th to 12th
<ikonia> of November
<jussi01> november...
<ikonia> sure if you want
<ikonia> got nothing on that weekend
<ikonia> happy to give you the spare room for a few nights
<jussi01> brilliant! :D
<ikonia> assuming that is enough "in the middle" of bath and london 
<ikonia> oops
<ikonia> manchestera dna london
<ikonia> and 
<jussi01> Cant tell you how much I appreciate it.
<ikonia> not a big deal
<ikonia> let me know how/when/where you'll be getting here and I'll make sure someonis around to pick you up (I'm in London on that friday) 
<ikonia> but I'll be back in the evening
<jussi01> ikonia: Ill likely take the train down
<LjL> ikonia: but seriously those queues almost scared me. i can't say it's *better* here, with no queuing at all for transport... for instance i hate people who don't let you get off the (bus|tram|train) before going in - and surely having the driver say "bus is full, sucks to be you" (well perhaps they don't say the last part) has its merits, compared to our being cramped horribly, but
<ikonia> LjL: thats my daily fight at the moment
<ikonia> fight your way into the train
<LjL> ikonia: have you ever stumbled upon the "don't speak to the bus driver in various countries" fortune cookie? should be in the "fortune" package iirc
<ikonia> fight your way off
<ikonia> not seen that one
<LjL> ikonia: well, in the US the sign says "Don't speak to the bus driver"
<ikonia> ahh yes, I've seen them many times
<LjL> ikonia: in england, "You are very kindly requested to please avoid speaking to the bus driver". in scotland, "What have you got to gain by speaking to the driver?"
<LjL> ikonia: in germany, "It is strictly forbidden for passengers to speak to the driver"
<LjL> in italy, "Don't answer the driver"
<ikonia> ha ha ha
<ikonia> I'll check out that fortune 
<jussi01> in finland (helsinki) the bus driver speaks to you...
<LjL> jussi01: well, you're close to soviet russia you know
<jussi01> hehe
<bazhang> [Skriptkid] (n=administ@115.84.143.139): Ethical Hacker  in #ubuntu and #ubuntu!
<bazhang> what is #ubuntu!   ?
<Myrtti> who the hell has edited envyng to be the pardon me, shitty version it is now?
<Myrtti> !-envy
<ubottu> envy is <alias> envyng - added by LjL on 2006-12-09 03:22:01 - last edited by Myrtti on 2008-05-02 16:31:26
<Myrtti> !-envyng
<ubottu> envyng aliases: envy - added by jussio1 on 2008-05-01 17:30:20 - last edited by ompaul on 2008-07-25 00:34:32
<Tm_T> !info bash
<ubottu> bash (source: bash): The GNU Bourne Again SHell. In component main, is required. Version 3.2-4ubuntu1 (intrepid), package size 564 kB, installed size 1232 kB
<Tm_T> hmm, it works...
<Myrtti> !envyng
<ubottu> envyng is an updated version of the *UNSUPPORTED* envy package. It is now part of the ubuntu universe repository (envyng-gtk OR envyng-qt) we suggest you use envyng if every other (official/supported) method fails! it can have various results from works, to fails!!!  if you want the very latest drivers from the manufacturer you use them at your own risk
<Tm_T> ubot3 doesn't have package database
<ubot3> Tm_T: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<Myrtti> damn, I wish there was version control so I could see diffs and blame someone for that
<Tm_T> ubot3: info bash
<ubot3> Package bash does not exist in hardy
 * Myrtti prods Pici
<Pici> Myrtti: poing
<Myrtti> Pici: plz fix envyng?
<Myrtti> tis horrible
<Pici> Myrtti: The package or the factoid. ;)
<Pici> Myrtti: What changes do you want me to make?
<Myrtti> triple exlamationmarks... meh.
<Myrtti> commas meh
<Myrtti>  it can have various results from works, to fails!!!  if you 
<Myrtti>                   want the very latest drivers from the manufacturer you use them at 
<Myrtti>                   your own risk
<Myrtti> that part Sucks.
<Pici> I'll make it nicer
 * Myrtti runs off to do the dishes, clean the bathroom, swipe the floors and...
 * Myrtti minimises the procrastination effect by turning the computer off.
<Myrtti> tata.
<nalioth> Tm_T: i'll look into it
<Tm_T> nalioth: thanks <3
<jussi01> !slow
<ubottu> The Ubuntu repositories and ISO mirrors are currently under heavy load due to the release of the latest edition. Please consider using !torrents to download ISO images, and be patient with APT updates.
<jussi01> !torrents-#kubuntu
<ubottu> Kubuntu Hardy Heron (8.04) torrents can be obtained at http://se.cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/releases/8.04/release/ (KDE 3.5.9) or http://se.cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu-kde4/releases/8.04/release/ (KDE 4.0.3)
<jussi01> someone care to update that? Ive got to run out for a few mins
 * jussi01 prods ikonia
<ikonia> you prodded
<PriceChild> jussi01: that's pretty low...
<PriceChild> jussi01: or desperate.
<PriceChild> jussi01: *just* to try and prove to me that you really are australian..
 * jussi01 giggles
<jussi01> PriceChild: Where do you live? I could pay you a visit... :P
<PriceChild> gb
<jussi01> PriceChild: Im coming to the UK next week
<PriceChild> which bits?
<PriceChild> i'm travelling sleeping and lazing next week, maybe one or two days free
<jussi01> PriceChild: Im coming on friday, and staying till the wednesday, Ill be in Liverpool manchester, bath and london by the looks of things
<Pici> OBOBfg
<jussi01> Pici: ?
<Pici> OCOCOBOBOBODOD
<Pici> Sorry.
<Pici> screen reattach failure there
<PriceChild> jussi01: i'm in york thurs/fri i believe, then west midlands/birminghamish area either side.
<jussi01> PriceChild: hrm, I may have some time on the sunday, but Im also planning to go stay with ikonia on the mon-wed
<jussi01> hrm, how far are you away on sunday the 9th, from manchester?
<PriceChild> jussi01: a couple of hours by car
<jussi01> hrm, ok
<jussi01> PriceChild: how far from bath?
<PriceChild> probably more
<jussi01> oh
<genii> Bleh, crazy so far today at work
<jussi01> !intrepidkde3 is <reply>No, intrepid does not include KDE 3, only KDE 4. Please continue to use Hardy if KDE 3 is deisred.
<ubottu> I'll remember that, jussi01
<jussi01> !intrepidkde3
<ubottu> No, intrepid does not include KDE 3, only KDE 4. Please continue to use Hardy if KDE 3 is deisred.
<jussi01> !kde3-#kubuntu is <alias>intrepidkde3
<ubottu> I'll remember that, jussi01
<cmdbbq> i seem to be banned in #ubuntu-offtopic, but i have no idea why, i haven't been there in ages
<jussi01> @btlogin
<jussi01> cmdbbq: 1 moment please
<cmdbbq> sure
<cmdbbq> i understand things are busy with the release and all
<Pici> cmdbbq: We appear to have banned your shell provider due to abuse by a certain user.
<Pici> djhash: Can we help you?
<jussi01> Pici: you stole my thunder! :P
<Pici> jussi01: You can say it again if you want.
<djhash> oh no.. sorry.. seems like i clicked on the channel by error.. cya.. :-)
<jussi01> Pici: hehe
<cmdbbq> Pici: oh, i see
<cmdbbq> just one more reason to stop being lazy and set up my own server :)
<Pici> jussi01: you can take over, I gotta run to the other office here.
<jussi01> sure
<Flannel> eh.
<Flannel> !coc | Flannel 
<ubottu> Flannel, please see my private message
<ubottu> compengi called the ops in #ubuntu ()
<ubottu> runpain2 called the ops in #ubuntu ()
<genii> Well, see you all in about an hour
<ubottu> In ubottu, sken said:  sun-java6-jre is the latest java?
<nalioth> ubottu: tell sken about yourself
#ubuntu-ops 2008-11-01
<Hobbsee> greetings
<ubottu> In #ubuntu, scientesss said: !uuid is needs method of looking up uuid of drives
<PriceChild> !uuid
<ubottu> To see a list of your devices/partitions and their corresponding UUID's, run this command in a !shell: Â« sudo blkid Â» (see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LibAtaForAtaDisks for the rationale behind the transition to UUID)
<PriceChild> but but...
<nalioth> ter ter . . .
<PriceChild> it has a method of looking them up already?
<Flannel> PriceChild: sudo blkid... yeah, been around since edgy or so
<nickrud_> ls /dev/disk/by-* is nice too
<nalioth> nickrud_! where's your brother nickrud?
<nickrud_> he's been disconnected by the remote host and is sulking
<nalioth> ah
<LjL> nickrud_: no, by the peer
<nalioth> so go sic a ghost on 'im
<nickrud> heh. been away for a while, some new names to the right
<nalioth> they're all clones of ubottu, nickrud 
<nalioth> advance AI and all that stuff
<nickrud> heh
<nickrud> I'm sure they appreciate that identification ;)
<ubot3> It's cool to be a clone.
<nickrud> It's amazing how much work I get done when I keep irc off 
<LjL> nickrud: but don't call them n00bs although that's accurate, they get offended
<LjL> nickrud: that's so true.
<nickrud> I wear that badge with pride. I hope never to lose my n00bness
<PriceChild> bazhang: I'd move it to PM.
<bazhang> bamboo has quit ()
<PriceChild> I noticed, he quit after I said the above.
<PriceChild> Just noticed/remembered that open week is this monday btw.
<WastePotato> Hi.
<WastePotato> Did someone ban me from -offtopic again?
<LjL> you as in your host, or you as in your mibbit address?
<WastePotato> Mibbit. My bnc died.
<LjL> yes it's banned
<WastePotato> Is mibbit banned?
<LjL> no, you are
<WastePotato> Why?
<LjL> ompaul, 13 september
<LjL> i haven't got a clue
<LjL> is that the same as your other old bans?
<bazhang> were you using his name WastePotato 
<WastePotato> Hmm?
<Flannel> LjL: Oct 6
<bazhang> seem to remember that being the case
<LjL> Flannel: err no, sep 13
<LjL> bazhang, it was for ban evasion
<bazhang> LjL, aha
<Flannel> LjL: Um, that's a removal.  Oct 6 is a ban
<WastePotato> I'm so confused...
<LjL> Flannel: no, check the banlist, it says sept 13
<LjL> WastePotato, it was a ban for ban evasion
<Flannel> LjL: I'm checking the bantracker
 * WastePotato sighs
<LjL> Flannel: don't. check the banlist.
<LjL> WastePotato: don't start crying now
<WastePotato> Nevermind... I'll wait until the BNC comes back on...
<LjL> i've unbanned you
<WastePotato> How did you know that I cry when people ban me from...
<LjL> WastePotato: i have this seventh sense
<WastePotato> xD
<WastePotato> Right. Thanks, LjL
<LjL> as is customary to say - "behave"
<Flannel> !private
<ubottu> Please ask your questions in the channel so that other people can also benefit AND help you. Please don't PM a user in the channel without asking first, some find it rude.
<Flannel> hmm
<Flannel> !encrypted
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about encrypted
<Flannel> !encrypted is <reply> For information on setting up encrypted private directories (8.10+) see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EncryptedPrivateDirectory
<ubottu> I'll remember that, Flannel
<Flannel> It also gets set up by default (if you choose) with the alternate CD
 * Flannel doesn't know if we want to make the factoid longer
<Flannel> !drives
<ubottu> The /etc/fstab file indicates how drive partitions are to be used or otherwise integrated into the file system. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Fstab and http://www.tuxfiles.org/linuxhelp/fstab.html and !Partitions
<genii> Good evening, morning, or afternoon 
<genii> @login
<ubottu> The operation succeeded.
<genii> If I am going away for a few days should I be letting someone here know?
<nalioth> if you want to
<genii> nalioth: I just figured it was the responible thing to do. I'm not going to be near a computer til Mon evening or Tues morning. So conceivably if there's some op shortage already someone who perhaps wouldn't be here might show up , etc. Or at least thats my convoluted thought process.
<genii> Not that #kubuntu is a horror show which needs constant attention :)
<ubottu> In #ubuntu, scientes said: !paste is pastebin is a service to post multiple-lined texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu.com (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic), also you can do sudo apt-get install pastebinit
<genii> Hmm. Is there also !pastebinit ?
<genii> nalioth: Is special rights needed to modify factoids?
<nalioth> genii: not really
<nalioth> genii: you should have them
<genii> nalioth: I'll use it with discretion :)
<ubottu> In ubottu, genii said: !paste is pastebin is a service to post multiple-lined texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu.com (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic). A command-line alternative is pastebinit (see !pastebinit)
<elkbuntu> genii, try @login
<elkbuntu> hrm, seems you did...  why....
<ubottu> In ubottu, genii said: !pastebinit is pastebinit is a commandline alternative for using http://paste.ubuntu.com/      to install: sudo apt-get install pastebinit. Simple usage: dmesg | pastebinit      or: pastebinit <commandname here> Report the URL it gives after this.
<elkbuntu> jussi01, ^
<genii> Weird
<nalioth> he may need to be in the ops LP group
<genii> Well, if someone in that group thinks the suggested changes are appropriate please vet
<nalioth> genii: we usually do :)
<genii-2> Had a LAN fart. 1 minute
<genii> @login
<ubottu> The operation succeeded.
 * genii puts on another pot of coffee to keep everyone alert
<genii> Are #kubuntu ops perhaps only allowed to edit kubuntu-specific factoids or so? 
<Flannel> genii: I believe editing capabilities are editing capabilities.
<genii> Flannel: OK, thanks.
<genii> Flannel: Probably my syntax or something
<genii> !remember pastebinit is pastebinit is a commandline alternative for using http://paste.ubuntu.com/      to install: sudo apt-get install pastebinit. Simple usage: dmesg | pastebinit      or: pastebinit <commandname here> Report the URL it gives after this.
<ubottu> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<genii> Hm
<genii> !pastebinit is pastebinit is a commandline alternative for using http://paste.ubuntu.com/      to install: sudo apt-get install pastebinit. Simple usage: dmesg | pastebinit      or: pastebinit <commandname here> Report the URL it gives after this.
<ubottu> In #ubuntu-ops, genii said: !pastebinit is pastebinit is a commandline alternative for using http://paste.ubuntu.com/      to install: sudo apt-get install pastebinit. Simple usage: dmesg | pastebinit      or: pastebinit <commandname here> Report the URL it gives after this.
<genii> Bah
<genii> Sorry guys
<genii> Weird that it forwards it back to here
<genii> Is @ instead of ! perhaps ?
<Flannel> genii: Do @whoami
<Flannel> !pastebinit
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about pastebinit
<genii> @whoami
<ubottu> genii
<Flannel> genii: Hmmm.  It recognizes you, but you don't have edit capabilities apparently
<genii> OK. So not much then to do about it I guess
<Myrtti> elkbuntu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ultamatix
<Myrtti> elkbuntu: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ultamatix&diff=248895209&oldid=239992396
<Myrtti> would someone please have a look at that, I've got better things to do today than to be on IRC and on the computer? KTHXBAI.
<Gary> I looked, and giggled
 * wgrant vomits.
<Gary> elkbuntu: do you have shag on hilight? :p
<elkbuntu> Gary, no, 'elks' i do
<Gary> lol
<elkbuntu> alongside 'elk' and 'elky' all are ways i get addressed reguarly
<elkbuntu> also elx
<elkbuntu> for the lazy people who cant be bothered typing 'elks'
<Gary> i'll remember that
<Gary> now what words have elx in them :p
<elkbuntu> i dont know. eleaf tried to claim innocence by describing eating 'elk steak' and drinking 'elk juice'
<elkbuntu> that latter one was ... um... i have no words for that.
<Gary> interesting
<Gary> thats the word
<woden1> I tried to join #ubuntu but I am banned.  May I be unbanned please?  Thanks.
<elkbuntu> woden1, when was the last time you were there?
<woden1> elkbuntu: I do not remember.
<elkbuntu> when was the last you can?
<bazhang> @login
<ubottu> The operation succeeded.
<bazhang> @btlogin
<woden1> elkbuntu:  I know I was able to go there before I left for Iraq.
<elkbuntu> woden1, who else shares your IP address?
<bazhang> woden1, what name were you using
<elkbuntu> woden1, and when was that?
<woden1> I always use this name, woden or woden1.
<woden1> That was in June when I left for Iraq.  I just installed 8.10 and I want to ask some questions.
<elkbuntu> woden1, who shares your internet connection?
<woden1> My entire family does.
<woden1> And I also have an access point
<elkbuntu> woden1, who in your family goes by 'thunar' or 'thunar1'?
<woden1> Oh damn, that's me.
<woden1> Now I remember I got too drunk last night.  I totally forgot
<woden1> Let me see I think I typed rm -rf /
<woden1> or somesuch
<woden1> now I remember, yea
<elkbuntu> not quite, you told someone to dd random to their harddisk, and they almost did
<elkbuntu> you realise being drunk is not an excuse for that kind of behaviour, right?
<woden1> yea I have no excuse!
<elkbuntu> !guidelines
<ubottu> The guidelines for using the Ubuntu channels can be found here: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines
 * elkbuntu pokes the bot
<woden1> alright I will go read that.
<woden1> sorry
<bazhang> <thunar1> Mafioso_d: Send $199 to my pay-pal account to order Ubuntu.
<bazhang> at least Linux is holding up in the financial crisis
<elkbuntu> !guidelines
<ubottu> The guidelines for using the Ubuntu channels can be found here: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines
<elkbuntu> o.O
<elkbuntu> the bot hates me?
<elkbuntu> yay
<kinnaz> lol
<kinnaz> that thunar had some fancy ideas
<bazhang> kinnaz, how may we help you
<kinnaz> bazhang not looking for help, just killing my time
<bazhang> !idle | kinnaz 
<ubottu> kinnaz: Please keep in mind that this channel is for operator/abuse questions only, and we ask you to part when you have no further business here, in order to keep track of users with pending inquiries.
<kinnaz> i could come up with somekind of questio
<kinnaz> if thats really needed
<bazhang> kinnaz, this is not the channel for that
<ubot4> better ?
<bazhang> no
<ubot4> damn you evil person
<Gary> ubot4: I think you are being asked to /part this channel
<ubot4> doubtful that all the idling non voices should be here either
<ubot4> but okey
<ubot4> if you want to be dick about it
<ubot4> i shall leave
<elkbuntu> Gary, watch that one. came into -women and said 'yay ubuntu chicks'
<elkbuntu> k2pp is what he's known as now
<LjL> so does anyone actually know how the heck X is configured
 * LjL wonders just what support he'll be able to give from now on, considering he isn't really going to install Intrepid
<jrib> LjL: /etc/hal/
<bazhang> systems >preferences > screen resolution seems to be the one LjL 
<LjL> bazhang: that's not very universal though, jrib probably is onto the real thing by the sound of it
<bazhang> :(
<jrib> I had to setup my touchpad, I just looked at /usr/share/hal/fdi/policy/20thirdparty/11-x11-synaptics.fdi , read the hal spec, and created my onw in /etc/hal/
<LjL> jrib: wow, that's called making things easier compared to that crufty xorg.conf? ;P
<jrib> it's ugly, editing xml in a text editor sucks
<jrib> if you search xorg.conf man page for "hal" though, you get the option that lets you still configure input devices in xorg.conf
<LjL> jrib: so anyway what's this hal business? i mean, i suppose it's not just an xorg specific thing (as i even have /etc/hal on my Hardy even though it's close to empty)
<LjL> is there a whole new hardware management framework?
<bazhang> I am waiting for the wiki before I tell people to go into hal
<jrib> LjL: I don't know much about it.  All I know is that with hal and udev I can hotplug devices now
<LjL> i've got this feeling we're too much out of touch with the developers
<jrib> I couldn't find any good documentation really.  I shouldn't have to go read the spec
<LjL> jrib: well that might be because the wiki people are also out of touch with the developers, possibly
<bazhang> well try telling a new user they have to go into hal; that will not go down well methinks
<jrib> bazhang: same as telling them to edit xorg.conf imo
<LjL> bazhang: probably no better or worse than xorg.conf
<LjL> problem is that i know how xorg.conf works, no idea about the hal stuff
<bazhang> exactly
<bazhang> thus the reason to wait for the wiki
<LjL> assuming the wiki will ever have this stuff
<jrib> LjL: devicekit is set to replace hal
<LjL> perhaps the wiki people are "waiting for IRC support to know something about it" ;)
<LjL> jrib: wait, wait, i barely know what hal even is yet, and there's something set to replace it? :o
<bazhang> haha
<LjL> my head is now a confusion of hotplugudevhalxorgdevicekit...
<LjL> give me the windows registry PLEASE!
<bazhang> you sound like domas from earlier :)
<LjL> i guess i missed that one, but he's probably right :P
<bazhang> he was asking some really hard questions just to be a smarty-pants
<jrib> some documentation https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Config
<jrib> the !fixres is out date too
<jrib> of
<jrib> didn't know about xinput, hmm
<bazhang> http://ubuntuguide.org/wiki/Ubuntu:Intrepid#xorg.conf
<LjL> jrib: problem is, even though that's a wiki (as opposed to a help) page, it's still mostly a pasting of instructions, with only a very marginal high-level overview...
<bazhang> something for nvidia but ati is blank
<LjL> jrib: for doing support, i need to have some of a global view - at a layman level because i'm really no more than the next user, but still some insight of how things are actually done, what depends on what, what the architecture is like
<LjL> it feels like i'm less and less in touch with the "way things work"
<LjL> not like i've started feeling this need *now*...
<LjL> i had actually tried writing a wiki page "ubuntu architecture for dummies" (wasn't really called that)
<LjL> that was long ago
<LjL> how was it even called...
<jrib> isn't open week coming up?
<jrib> might be a good idea to ask for such a talk
<jrib> LjL: 
<LjL> jrib: yes i was thinking about that
<LjL> i feel too terrible today though for actually going around and having coherent talk with people
<elkbuntu> aww, ljl needs huggles?
<LjL> elkbuntu: if you want to catch a cold
<elkbuntu> LjL, the internets protect me
 * elkbuntu huggles ljl
<LjL> aaaat
<LjL> chum
<PriceChild> I just tested a live usb and woo intrepid works for me :P
<LjL> anyone happen to know how i could find a wiki page i created?
<PriceChild> recently or?
<LjL> no, years ago
 * PriceChild waits for firefox to load
<LjL> elkbuntu: my sister finally has working wireless by the way. perhaps unsurprisingly, it was a matter of setting DHCP instead of static addressing...
<bazhang> ibex is flawless here
<bazhang> both on desktop and eeepc
<LjL> bazhang: tell me about the eeepc, there has to be *something* eeepc specific that doesn't work out of the box?
<elkbuntu> heh
<bazhang> LjL, well I spend a fair amount of time at the wiki at www.eeeuser.com
<LjL> bazhang: i'm currently on ubuntu-eee but i'm not entirely fond of using custom kernels
<bazhang> LjL, aha
<LjL> although even on the eeepc i have my doubts about whether or not to upgrade to intrepid...
<LjL> for the same reason as on my desktop: lack of kde 3
<LjL> i'm on gnome on the eeepc right now but i'm not sure it'd stay that way
<LjL> Fedora or Red-Hat administrators will now feel a bit more comfortable using Ubuntu as the service command they had been using to manage daemons is now standard on Ubuntu. In addition to the traditional sudo /etc/init.d/<service> [start|stop|restart] way of managing a process, it is now also possible to use sudo service <service> [start|stop|restart].
<LjL> AAAGGH. whgat traditional *what*? you start a service with invoke-rc.d
<LjL> jrib, bazhang: ha here it is, that page i wrote years ago https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KnowThyUbuntu - it's probably ridiculous itself but it should give an idea what i'd *like* to have
<bazhang> LjL, sweet; thanks
<elkbuntu> LjL, yeah, that's roflol
<LjL> elkbuntu: my page?
<elkbuntu> 'we added another layer of abstraction, so you people who think you are it and a bit will feel more comfortable'
<LjL> ah
<elkbuntu> LjL, no, the service thing
<LjL> well "service" is shorter and easier than "invoke-rc.d"
<LjL> it's not that bad imho
<LjL> but saying that it replaces /etc/init.d is blasphemy
<LjL> because you were *not* supposed to start services using "sudo /etc/init.d/" in the first place
<bazhang> fedora now has both root and user passwords
<bazhang> very ubuntu-like of late :)
<LjL> err? having a root password is ubuntu-like? or are you being ironic?
<elkbuntu> yeah, my boss gave up on ubuntu and fled to centos
<elkbuntu> errr,
<elkbuntu> s/ubuntu/fedora/
<elkbuntu> i need bed
<elkbuntu> i think he's worded it wrong
<bazhang> LjL, sorry, meant about the separate user pass
<bazhang> most of the stuff in fedora now is with that one password and not the root pass
<ubottu> In #ubuntu-offtopic, MTecknology said: !links is <reply>Do NOT post links to Jaunty ISO files before an official release announcement is made.  These files are not the final release and will cause confusion.  Doing so will get you removed from the channel.
<PriceChild> !links
<ubottu> Do NOT post links to Gutsy ISO files before an official release announcement is made.  These files are not the final release and will cause confusion.  Doing so will get you removed from the channel.
<PriceChild> !forget links
<ubottu> I'll forget that, PriceChild
<bazhang> jauntu already? wow
<ubottu> FloodBot3 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join)
<ubottu> In ubottu, Dorward said: !no, html is HyperText Markup Language, used to build web pages. WYSIWYG editors: KompoZer (was Nvu), Iceape Composer, Amaya - Development environments: Bluefish, Quanta+, Screem - For a howto on HTML coding, see: http://opera.com/wsc/
<LjL> !html
<ubottu> html is HyperText Markup Language, used to build web pages. WYSIWYG editors: KompoZer (was Nvu), Iceape Composer, Amaya - Development environments: Bluefish, Quanta+, Screem - For a howto on HTML coding, see: http://www.w3schools.com/
<LjL> *shrug* i don't know
<LjL> grr sivaji isn't new to abusing the bot is he
<LjL> jrib: he wants to get jrid of you
<bazhang> haha
<bazhang> woden1, how may we help you
<woden1> Can I request to be unbanned?
<bazhang> woden1, you were using the nick thunar or thunar1?
<woden1> Yes
<woden1> It's my first offense.  Can I just get a warning?  I'm sorry I won't do it again.
<bazhang> woden1, you were asking others to send you money via paypal?
<woden1> No.
<woden1> Definitely no.
<woden1> Where did that come from?
<woden1> lol
<bazhang> <thunar1> Mafioso_d: Send $199 to my pay-pal account to order Ubuntu.
<woden1> No that is not me, I swear.
<bazhang> that was not you?
<woden1> Nope.  I'm being honest.
<bazhang> same ip address
<woden1> Wait
<woden1> Now I remember
<woden1> Yea I guess I did say that
<woden1> lol
<bazhang> not funny
<woden1> Weird, I didn't even remember until you posted the exact text.
<woden1> You are right, and I have no excuse.
<woden1> Honestly it was out of character for me.  I've never done anything like that before.
<woden1> What do you think?  Yay, Nay?
<bazhang> the person who banned you is not around woden1 
<bazhang> you will need to speak with them
<woden1> Hrm
<woden1> Alright
<Gary> 5
<bazhang> please read these two links
<woden1> Well, I don't even know who banned me, but I'd like to know so I can request to be unbanned.
<LjL> [Thu Oct 30 2008] [19:20:56] <thunar1>  Mafioso_d: Send $199 to my pay-pal account to order Ubuntu.
<LjL> [Thu Oct 30 2008] [19:23:44] <thunar1>  Ubuntu rocks!  Ubuntu sucks!  Ubuntu exists! Ubuntu is dead!  Yea!
<LjL> [Thu Oct 30 2008] [19:25:12] <thunar1>  su
<LjL> [Thu Oct 30 2008] [19:25:13] <thunar1>  rm -rf /
<LjL> [Thu Oct 30 2008] [19:25:58] <thunar1>  jwoo: yes, dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/sda
<LjL> can you, like, explain *all* of those?
<bazhang> !coc | woden1 
<ubottu> woden1: The Ubuntu Code of Conduct to which we ask all Ubuntu users to adhere can be found at http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct/
<bazhang> !guidelines | woden1 
<ubottu> woden1: The guidelines for using the Ubuntu channels can be found here: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines
<woden1> I read both of those earlier today when I came here.
<woden1> Thanks for the link.
<bazhang> but you just said that it was not you. You Swore.
<woden1> You mean the paypal thing?
<bazhang> Yes.
<woden1> I totally forgot
<woden1> I really didn't think that was me, because I forgot completely that I said that.
<LjL> ly forgot about the rest of what you said that i quoted, too?
<mneptok> woden1: people that have blackouts and forget their behavior are not good candidates for polite and reasoned discourse on IRC.
<woden1> No, the other part about rm -rf / and dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/sda I remembered all of that and admitted to it upfront.
<woden1> mneptok: I agree with you
<woden1> This is my first offense, I've never done anything like that before.
<mneptok> woden1: so then what would you suggest?
<woden1> mneptok:  Well it's hard for me to say because I am not working in your position and I don't see everything that you see.
<woden1> I guess...at the worst a time-limited ban?  At the best, a warning and an immediate lift of the ban?
<mneptok> woden1: your ban is time-limited, is suspect. but be prepared for that limit to be somewhat higher than you would prefer.
<mneptok> s/is/i/
<woden1> Okay well like I said earlier, I have no excuse for what I did and I am sorry and it won't happen again.
<mneptok> and a ban is 100% certain and justifiable when you are sending commands that will destroy someone's installation
<mneptok> "rm -rf /" ain't quite the same as screaming "poopy!"
<woden1> mneptok:  Yes
<woden1> I agree
<mneptok> great. so we're in agreement, and you will wait patiently until the person who placed the ban is confident the behavior will not be repeated.
<woden1> I have no other choice
<woden1> Okay well see you guys later.  Thanks for doing what you do.
<mneptok> another satisfied customer.
<jdong> sigh, why the heck do people do stuff like that?
<nalioth> cuz they're 12 years old and think it's funny
<jdong> I guess I'll never understand the inner workings of their minds... I can't imagine how destroying other peoples' data can be funny
<Gary> he did say he'd been to iraq, or did I miss something?
<jdong> "Oh, how to put that on your holster? Just pull out the little pin thing on the top and *BOOOOOM* hahaha just joking"
<mneptok> "I'm sorry I ordered subordinates to give me their rations, but that's all I did. Why am I not allowed on the practice range? Oh, right. There was that grenade thing. I forgotted."
<jdong> mneptok: heh he's now in #ubuntu-devel asking his question. Hopefully this doesn't go down too badly :)
<jdong> f14:27 < Chipzz> woden1: not a support channel
<jdong> 14:29 < woden1> Well I was wondering if Ubuntu could "develop" a way to make it  so that internal NTFS drives are automatically mounted at boot?
<jdong> well.... A for effort.
<jdong> left.
<hagebake> hi, I'm trying to join #kubuntu and I keep getting redirected to #ubuntu-proxy-users because I'm using CGI:IRC. is it not allowed?
<nalioth> hagebake: please follow the helpful robots instructions there  :)
<hagebake> it only grants me temporary permission to #ubuntu, but i'm trying to join #kubuntu
<LjL> hagebake: you can join now
<hagebake> ah, thanks
<jussi01> hello all!
<jussi01> hagebake: anything else you need?
<nalioth> EEEK!
<jussi01> hehe
 * jussi01 hugs nalioth
<jussi01> that'll give you eeek!
<nalioth> speaking of hugs
<jussi01> :D
<jussi01> !idle | hagebake
<ubottu> hagebake: Please keep in mind that this channel is for operator/abuse questions only, and we ask you to part when you have no further business here, in order to keep track of users with pending inquiries.
<ubottu> In #ubuntu, aaron said: !jrib is this how
<jrib> I am not.
<Flannel> s/jrib/this how/
<Flannel> you are now!
<nalioth> ubot3: info kdm
<ubot3> kdm: X display manager for KDE. In component main, is optional. Version 4:3.5.10-0ubuntu1~hardy2 (hardy), package size 609 kB, installed size 1572 kB
<nalioth> Tm_T: ^^
<nalioth> probably need to update it to intrepid, eh?
<jussi01> @config supybot.plugins.Encyclopedia.searchorder
<ubottu> intrepid
<jussi01> nalioth: ^^ if you didnt do it yet?
<nalioth> jussi01: yes, all in good time :)
<jussi01> :)
<jussi01> ubot3: info waon
<ubot3> waon: A Wave-to-Notes transcriber. In component universe, is extra. Version 0.8-0ubuntu2 (hardy), package size 84 kB, installed size 240 kB
#ubuntu-ops 2008-11-02
<szymon_g> hi
<PriceChild> szymon_g: Give it a short while then ask X3N about it.
<szymon_g> ok, but i dont see him here :/. anyway- i will try to catch him on the morning, i've to go to sleep
<PriceChild> szymon_g: use /query
<jrib> !trash =~ s/changed in/changed since/
<ubottu> I'll remember that jrib
<jrib> !trash
<ubottu> The location of Trash has changed since 8.04, it is now located in ~/.local/share/Trash | Looking for the trash in previous versions: ~/.Trash
<ubottu> ivantis called the ops in #ubuntu ()
<jrib> I'm confused
<ivantis> so
<Pici> ivantis: Can you rephrase what you are asking, we're a little confused. I think I know what you're asking, but I'm not sure.
<ivantis> how do i make a bot an official one for ubuntu?
<ivantis> you need to approve it?
<Pici> ivantis: A bot for #ubuntu ?
<ivantis> yeah
<Pici> We currently do not have any plans for adding new bots to the channel.  
<PriceChild> ivantis: why do we want one of your bots? What does it do?
<ivantis> stuff
<Pici> ubottu serves as our factoid bot and the floodbots control floods and whatnot.  Unless we're talking about something innovative that we might need.
<ubottu> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<ivantis> #perlbot
<jrib> heh
<ivantis> its name is perlbot2
<Flannel> ivantis: And what does it do?
<ivantis> i wrote it myself in perl
<ivantis> it has bot-aliases
<ivantis> fetch command
<ivantis> echo command
<PriceChild> "Why?"
<ivantis> im currently working on making it accept DCCs for paste-bin-ing
<nalioth> ivantis: how will it help folks in #ubuntu and is it easy to use?
<ivantis> easy enough
<Flannel> ivantis: and the former?
<nalioth> ivantis: the tools must be as simple as possible
<ivantis> join #perlbot
<ivantis> to test it
<Flannel> ivantis: A simple explanation would be nice
<ivantis> uh
<ivantis> well, i guess its similar to supybot
<ivantis> i designed it after that
<jrib> ivantis: what feature does it have that will help users in #ubuntu?
<Seeker`> why is it better than ubottu?
<ivantis> fetch
<jrib> what is fetch?
<ivantis> better than ubottu?
<ivantis> lets not get complex here
<ivantis> fetch = grab web pages
<jrib> what does grabbing web pages on irc mean?
<ivantis> join #perlbot
<ivantis> im not good at explainations
<Flannel> csilk: How can we help you?
<csilk> You can't, no worries I'm gone
 * nalioth blinks
<jdong> mneptok: are you awake at this time of night?
<ubottu> In ubottu, ardchoille said: !kde4 is KDE 4.1.2 is the latest major release of the K Desktop Environment. Packages can be found at http://www.kubuntu.org/news/kde-4.1.2 - Support in #kubuntu
<Flannel> tea4all: How can we help you?
<tea4all> I'm trying to get onto the #ubuntu channel
<tea4all> but pidgin keeps putting me on this channel instead 
<Flannel> No bans in bantracker.
<Flannel> Or, that I could ese.
<Flannel> Whats the command to list bans on the server itself?
<Flannel> tea4all: try #ubuntu now
<tea4all> Typed in "#ubuntu" and ended up here
<tea4all> will try again
<Flannel> tea4all: right, someone on your host was forwarded here.
<tea4all> fixed
<mneptok> jdong: sadly, yes
<jdong> mneptok: ah, would you have the capability to contact your friends in the UK at the moment, in particular James Troup?
<jdong> the forum proxy frontend has gone down for a few hours now
<mneptok> jdong: nope. fast asleep
 * ikonia is awake
<bazhang> @login
<ubottu> The operation succeeded.
<bazhang> @bansearch necrosan
<ubottu> No matches found for necrosan!n=necrosan@cpe-70-92-169-149.wi.res.rr.com in any channel
 * Flannel is waiting patiently for him to step out of line again.
<ubottu> In #ubuntu-offtopic, magnetron said: !ask is <reply> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line, so others can read and follow it easily).  If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply.  Â·)
<bazhang> [encephalitogenic] (n=outp@static-76-160-1-238.dsl.cavtel.net): utilizer spamming in #kubuntu
<nekostar> ffs
<nekostar> bazhang you really are heavy handed
<nekostar> this is exactly why so many of us hate the croud that is on this shiz
<Flannel> nekostar: You were being extremely rude
<nekostar> ive not asked you to pm me either.
<nekostar> Flannel so were yall.
<bazhang> nekostar, you have no need to reply so strongly to everyone that way (at least three people)
<jussi01> !stfu | nekostar
<ubottu> nekostar: Acronyms or statements like  noob, jfgi, stfu, or rtfm are not welcome in this channel. Period.
<Flannel> nekostar: How was I being rude to you?
<nekostar> lmfao
<nekostar> Flannel come on - yall - most general statement ever
<nekostar> lets see
<jussi01> nekostar: that goes for all ubuntu channels
<Flannel> nekostar: Alright, how were "we" being rude to you?
<nekostar> hold on
<nekostar> meh anyway
<nekostar> it doesnt matter
<nekostar> if yall are serious about not using acronyms then we shouldnt call it gnu/linux anymore should we
<Flannel> nekostar: You're right, it doesn't.  Even if someone is rude to you, you shouldn't be rude back.  And you certainly shouldn't toss out the guidelines.
<nekostar> now i'm sure that seems quite ridiculous as it should.
<jussi01> nekostar: acronyms are fine, just not ones like those mentioned
<nekostar> oh no Flannel i will toss em out.
<nekostar> jussi01 they are understood widely, and i will never stop using them till i feel they cannot be used to communicate.
<bazhang> nekostar, you were muted only so we could have a chat.
<nekostar> and as i spend a lot of my free time helping people out
<Flannel> nekostar: then you might as well run along.  You're certainly not going to be unbanned with that attitude.
<nekostar> bazhang heavy handed
<bazhang> that was the purpose of the PM.
<nekostar> i dont care bazhang you didnt ask to pm
<nekostar> which makes you as rude as anyone else
<Flannel> nekostar: When ops do it, it's to maintain your privacy.
<Flannel> nekostar: Either that, or we scold you publicall, which doesn't help anything.
<nekostar> shush for a bit plz
<nekostar> ffs
<bazhang> nekostar, you were disrupting the channel with your aggression
<nekostar> and since we dont use acronyms you can ust ignore that
<nekostar> <nekostar> no what are you using 
<nekostar> <nekostar> what interface XxLordMaiestasxX 
<nekostar> <Gnea> EdLin: why not?
<nekostar> * tecnicodpc has quit (Client Quit)
<nekostar> <abe3k> <`TonY> : I'll just mark it for reinstallation and see what happens :)
<nekostar> <nekostar> gnome kde what
<nekostar> * fallore (n=fallore@c-24-6-110-37.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #ubuntu
<nekostar> <Vipsta> I installed kbuntu on my laptop and im getting GRUB Loading, please wait.... Error 18
<nekostar> <XxLordMaiestasxX> as in?
<nekostar> * KalEl has quit ("Ex-Chat")
<nekostar> <XxLordMaiestasxX> i am not quite sure myself
<nekostar> <nekostar> as in is the menu on the bottom left or top left
<nekostar> <XxLordMaiestasxX> sorry
<nekostar> <EdLin> Gnea, it's a usb dvd drive
<nekostar> <nekostar> its ok 
<nekostar> <`TonY> abe3k, ok
<nekostar> <favro> !who | nekostar
<nekostar> <ubottu> nekostar: As you can see, this is a large channel. If you're speaking to someone in particular, please put their nickname in what you say (use !tab), or else messages get lost and it becomes confusing :)
<Flannel> nekostar: We're all in #ubuntu, we can see the conversation.
<nekostar> o jeez
<jussi01> nekostar: as I said... acronyms are fine, just not ones like those mentioned
<nekostar> i forget how many lines to a flood out
<nekostar> yeah
<nekostar> i was thinking i could just reference start and end sections
<nekostar> lol
<nekostar> so up 
<nekostar> starting where i didnt die
<nekostar> <nekostar> <nekostar> no what are you using 
<nekostar> from there
<nekostar> <favro> !who | nekostar
<nekostar> <ubottu> nekostar: As you can see, this is a large channel. If you're speaking to someone in particular, please put their nickname in what you say (use !tab), or else messages get lost and it becomes confusing :)
<nekostar> we get to there
<nekostar> stupid sod doesnt understand basic concept of continuity
<nekostar> <nekostar> favro if you never got the memo, around a decade ago it was decided that irc should follow the same guidelines as books in that as you speak if you do not continue to designate a person per line, then its automagically routed to the last known good destination [person who you were initially speaking to] which means at this point BUTT OUT thanx
<nekostar> read to there
<Flannel> nekostar: That's not how IRC works.
<bazhang> nekostar, you were asked not to use the enter key so much.
<nekostar> where i kindly without being too much of a dick point out using this as a sort of metaphore 
<nekostar> bazhang i dont really care what you ask there.
<Flannel> nekostar: Besides the fact that you *do* in fact need to address the person each time, you *shouldnt* be using more than one line to address a person at a time to begin with.
<nekostar> i dont do like
<nekostar> lol
<nekostar> omg
<bazhang> to which you gave a !guidelines to the person requesting it.
<nekostar> no wai
<nekostar> ~_~
<nekostar> ffs
<nekostar> thats really
<nekostar> orly
<nekostar> yarly
<bazhang> ok
<nekostar> sorry there but point is 
<nekostar> i might type short bits
<bazhang> the mute has been changed to a ban.
<nekostar> but those are my thoughts and that's how i talk
<nekostar> whatever
<nekostar> so i type how i talk, and well
<nekostar> yeah
<Flannel> nekostar: #ubuntu has 1500 people.  You need to talk one line at a time, not one clause at a time.
<nekostar> i've been doing it that way in that channel for longer than youve been on freenode
<nekostar> Flannel i understand that this is a bit overwhelming for you
<nekostar> and some of the others apparently
<nekostar> and apparently the worst we feared has happened
<Flannel> nekostar: Goodbye nekostar.  Nice talking to you.  You should try back in a week or two.  Maybe you'll be able to convince us to lift the ban then.
<nekostar> we're left with a bunch [not all but it's really starting to look more and more like the active majority] of heavy handed idiots with egos
<Flannel> nekostar: Be sure to read the channel guidelines, and the code of conduct in the meantime.
<nekostar> dont u understand you serve the same people i do?
<nekostar> the newer perhaps less experienced users?
<nekostar> if you have forgotten this already you should just go install windows or something and leave irc completely.
<nekostar> do you even understand what i mean ?
<bazhang> nekostar, your "style" is too disruptive.
<nekostar> lets open this up to whoever butespecially Flannel  and bazhang 
<nekostar> bazhang my style gets ppl's boxes fixed that other ppl fuck off
<nekostar> my style lands me a job at a DC
<bazhang> no need for that language nekostar 
<Flannel> nekostar: And that statement epitomizes the reason youre banned.
 * nekostar shrugs
<nekostar> oh thats just wonderful lol
<nekostar> so your saying that in a non `public` shall we say [since its limited tho not truely private] you still cant handle plain english?
<nekostar> honestly now, you should feel good i'm giving you this much of my time.
<nekostar> normally i would just evade
<nekostar> ;)
<nekostar> and dont bother i'm set up - and can change each class of ip
<Flannel> nekostar: You're not making a coherent argument anymore nekostar.  I strongly suggest you take some time off to cool down, and come back to discuss this in a week or so.
<nekostar> >:P
<nekostar> no Flannel 
<bazhang> ban evasion is not a wise choice nekostar 
<nekostar> yall are hurting new users, and quite frankly i'm not willing to let go of it
<nekostar> bazhang trust me ask the best
<nekostar> you cant stop me nor find me unless i prefer it that way
<nekostar> lol
<Flannel> nekostar: You're welcome to appeal to the IRC council.
<nekostar> no Flannel 
<nekostar> i'll just evade.
<nekostar> if i had been asked nicely
<nekostar> instead of someone flagging the bot because they know some stupid trigger
<jussi01> nekostar: which will likely earn you a network wide ban...
<nekostar> and quite frankly trying to rub something in my face that i just slammed back at the original person
<nekostar> jussi01 no not really ^^
<nekostar> so anyway
<nekostar> back to the breakdown of the ops getting heavy handed
<ikonia> this is going no where - lets drop it
<nekostar> <favro> nekostar: I don't care  
<nekostar> favro's well thought out reply you can see 
<nekostar> note that my reply to him originally there i actually took the time to think about
<nekostar> and type
<ikonia> nekostar: it doesn't matter
<nekostar> type quite a bit as a matter of fact.
<nekostar> it matters ^^
<nekostar> i'm giving you the chance to do the right thing ;)
<ikonia> nekostar: no-one else other than your behaviour was open for discussion
<ikonia> lets drop this
<nekostar> no
<nekostar> <nekostar> XxLordMaiestasxX ok very good. this means your almost certainly using gnome, and your trying to run a kde application where it doesnt really belong. on top left click applications > accessories > terminal
<nekostar> see there?
<ikonia> can someone mute / remove this guy please
<nekostar> thats me bravely continuing to help the poor sod
<nekostar> ikonia thats just lame
<bazhang> he is banned in #ubuntu
<nekostar> <bazhang> !attitude | nekostar
<nekostar> <ubottu> nekostar: The people here are volunteers, your attitude should reflect that. Answers are not always available. See http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines
<ikonia> bazhang: in here, as he's just rambling on
<Flannel> jussi01, mind doing the honors?
<nekostar> and that brings us to our current critique of bazhang here.
<bazhang> ikonia, still in #kubuntu however
<nekostar> bazhang ive not done anything there
<nekostar> ^^
<nekostar> where were we.
<ikonia> nekostar: stop now. Please
<nekostar> right so for basically trying to continue to help the guy, bazhang there gives me a stiff warning.
<nekostar> see here's the funny bit though.
<bazhang> nekostar, please part now. come back in a week or two
<ikonia> nekostar: your approach to the guy - not trying to help was the problem
<nekostar> bazhang isn't actually at that point helping anyone
<nekostar> i am.
<ikonia> nekostar: your not seeing that so - lets drop it
<nekostar> so bazhang here is logically when you look at it beating on me for helping someone looking for it.
<nekostar> dragging me down for donating my time
<jussi01> nekostar: please come back in a few days when you have calmed down!
<ikonia> thank you
<bazhang> nekostar, you were being overly aggressive.
<bazhang> oops
 * jussi01 goes to watch #kubuntu
<Flannel> Watch for backlash in #k
<Flannel> yeah
<ikonia> ha ha, I was just about to say that
<jussi01> remind me how to fetch a memo?
<jussi01> [11:01:54] <MemoServ:MemoServ> You have a new memo from starscalling (nick: nekostar).
<Flannel> jussi01: /msg memoserv help ;)
<Flannel>  /mgs memoserv read 0, likely
<jussi01> Flannel: let me be lazy! :P
<Flannel> jussi01: see attached ;)
<jussi01> lovely, threatening me :/
<jussi01> [11:03:39] <MemoServ:MemoServ> Memo 1 - Sent by starscalling, Nov 02 09:01:53 2008
<jussi01> [11:03:39] <MemoServ:MemoServ> ------------------------------------------
<jussi01> [11:03:39] <MemoServ:MemoServ> there will be consequences
<Flannel> Ah.  Definate Ubuntu community material right there!
<ikonia> kudos to him for not going off in #kubuntu though
<bazhang> wow
<jussi01> so is that worth a staff call? is a threat a freenode thing?
<jussi01> ikonia: yet...
<bazhang> jussi01, yes
<ikonia> I think it's more a case of "I'll tell the others on you"
<ikonia> I didn't take that as a "threat"
<bazhang> jussi01, and the "I'll evade"
<Flannel> jussi01: If it becomes an actual threat, notify the staff.  So if he threatens others (becomes a regular thing, crosses a threshold, whatever) action can be taken
<jussi01> here comes #k
<bazhang> he is talking about bans in #kubuntu
<jussi01> bazhang: Im on it
<Flannel> do the regular thing.  first mention he's offtopic, yadda ydda.  independant channels and all that.
<bazhang> jussi01, and favro is there too
<jussi01> I msg'd favro with: Please dont feed the troll!
<jussi01> @mark nekostar [11:03:39] <MemoServ:MemoServ> there will be consequences
<ubottu> The operation succeeded.
<jussi01> oops
<Flannel> definately don't remove that ban on the jussi01 fellow.
<Flannel> Can't trust him.
<bazhang> haha
<jussi01> hehe
<ikonia> 09:02 < nekostar> wow
<ikonia> 09:02 < nekostar> i'm sorry
<ikonia> 09:02 < nekostar> but i just fucking got to vent.
<ikonia> 09:02 < nekostar> anyone got a good suggestion for a distro besides ubuntu?
<ikonia> 09:03 < nekostar> ever since they started that fucking irc council every single  stupid god damn one of them seem to think their some sort of demigods
<ikonia> 09:03 < nekostar> and god damn it hardly any of them even know wtf their doing  with linux much less fucking irc
<ikonia> 09:03 < nekostar> </rant>
<elkbuntu> o.O
<elkbuntu> where?
<ikonia> ##linux
<ikonia> he was a bit of a pain in #ubuntu earlier, then started ranting in ##linux (only just noticed) he got ignored though
<elkbuntu> heh, who actually banned him in #ubuntu? or is he ranting because nobody heeded his demand for immediate customer slavery?
<ikonia> bazhang did, and it was because he was rude/agressive
<ikonia> "I help loads of people, you all know nothing, so I can do what I want" etc
<elkbuntu> bazhang, wow, you're on the council now? :Ã
<bazhang> elkbuntu, sweeet! :)
<bazhang>   /jk
<Flannel> elkbuntu: You can scroll up and read it.  He was just as beliggerent here as in #u, if not moreso.
<Flannel> He even quoted himself from #u, so you don't have to switch back and forth.  A bit odd, the quotes certainly didn't help his case.
<ikonia> nice that he got ignored in ##linux though
<elkbuntu> Flannel, the really fun trolls always do that
<Flannel> This guy wasn
<Flannel> wasn't trolling.  He actually thought he was justified
<elkbuntu> the *other* meaning of 'fun', dear
<elkbuntu> that is still trolling.
<Flannel> eh, that's debatable.  Certainly not productive, but I dont think I'd call it trolling
<elkbuntu> trolling has many guises
<elkbuntu> i'm trying to find that forums post with the classifications of different types of trolls
<elkbuntu> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=1032102
<elkbuntu> i was looking in the cafe, but it was in beginner talk ??
<jussi01> Yay, we have a new review of the code :P http://mjg59.livejournal.com/99905.html
<jussi01> !ultamatix
<ubottu> Ultamatix is not recommended, supported, or needed by Ubuntu.  Use of this software may cause damage to your Ubuntu install.  Do not suggest its use in this channel.  See !automatix for more info.
<jussi01> !automatix
<ubottu> Automatix is no longer developed or supported by its creators and is not recommended, supported, or needed by Ubuntu. See http://mjg59.livejournal.com/77440.html and Â« /msg ubottu WorksForMe Â»
<elkbuntu> jussi01, i PM'd him a bit ago :)
<jussi01> !no, ultamatix is <reply> Ultamatix is not recommended, supported, or needed by Ubuntu.  Use of this software may cause damage to your Ubuntu install.  Do not suggest its use in this channel. See http://mjg59.livejournal.com/99905.html and !automatix for more info.
<ubottu> I'll remember that jussi01
<jussi01> !ultamatix
<ubottu> Ultamatix is not recommended, supported, or needed by Ubuntu.  Use of this software may cause damage to your Ubuntu install.  Do not suggest its use in this channel. See http://mjg59.livejournal.com/99905.html and !automatix for more info.
<jussi01> elkbuntu: excellent. I had to giggle at some of the stuff there though. :D
<wgrant> Awesome review.
<elkbuntu> oh, and please use the advogato version of his blog when citing on wikipedia
<elkbuntu> lj is somewhat scorned there
<wgrant> Not surprising.
<elkbuntu> http://www.advogato.org/person/mjg59/diary/81.html is the advogato version of the automatix one
<elkbuntu> the ultamatix one should be easier to find
<wgrant> "the author's managed to produce a huge steaming pile of shite despite having been told how to avoid doing so beforehand"
<wgrant> Perfect.
<elkbuntu> have i ever mentioned how much a <3 mjg?
<wgrant> I was just about to say '<3 mjg59'
<elkbuntu> s/i/a/
<elkbuntu> errr, other way
<elkbuntu> s/a/i/
<wgrant> Somebody should probably blog about his blogging, given that I don't think he's on Planet.
<elkbuntu> he always used to be...
<elkbuntu> he is
<elkbuntu> third from the top at the moment
<wgrant> Oh.
<wgrant> Ah, Liferea was being stupid.
<elkbuntu> however, i will blog.
<elkbuntu> and that wikipedia page is not going to escape this time.
<wgrant> I wonder what they'd think if posts cropped up about it on forumubuntusoftware.
<elkbuntu> one way to find out
<wgrant> Didn't somebody recently cleanse the Wikipedia page of the evils that it mentioned?
<elkbuntu> wgrant, someone recently removed any criticism, yes.
<wgrant> Now, TheeMahn will presumably start calling mjg an incompetent soon.
<elkbuntu> of course.
<elkbuntu> or impossible to please
<elkbuntu> or both
<elkbuntu> snuxoll is on the wikipedia case
<wgrant> Good.
 * PriceChild notices mjg's review of ultimatix on planet
<wgrant> PriceChild: Still rofling?
 * PriceChild wonders if he is halfway through
<elkbuntu> nah, it's pretty horrendous, that's only a scraping, as was my blog post
<elkbuntu> however, i dont count for anything, according to the wikipedia larks who keep removing me as a source.
<PriceChild> !ultimatix
<ubottu> Ultamatix is not recommended, supported, or needed by Ubuntu.  Use of this software may cause damage to your Ubuntu install.  Do not suggest its use in this channel. See http://mjg59.livejournal.com/99905.html and !automatix for more info.
<jussi01> PriceChild: way ahead of you :D
<PriceChild> Just noticed the backlog.
<PriceChild> jussi01: I would prefer we quoted further.
<jussi01> PriceChild: go ahead!
<PriceChild> no ultimatix is  <reply> "Don't install this package. Don't let anyone else install this package. If you see anyone advocating the installation of this package, call them a fool. There's absolutely no excuse whatsoever for the existence of this kind of crap." See http://mjg59.livejournal.com/99905.html
<PriceChild> :P
<jussi01> hehe
<elkbuntu> heh
<elkbuntu> he's right though. it's worse than automatix
<wgrant> I wonder if TheeMahn knows who mjg is.
<elkbuntu> wgrant, he's about to find out.
<wgrant> Heh heh heh.
<PriceChild> wgrant: elkbuntu: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=5477031&postcount=15
<wgrant> I know he knows that he exists.
<elkbuntu> yeah, lol
<wgrant> But I'm not sure he knows that he's so almighty.
<PriceChild> ohh ok
<elkbuntu> Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts <-- rofl (unless it's broken or something)
<wgrant> 'I am no newbie to programming.'
<wgrant> Woah.
<wgrant> Almost 1000 posts and not been thanked? Awesome.
<PriceChild> I have 5000 posts and only 36 thanks.
<elkbuntu> PriceChild, but how many ubuntu variants do *you* make?
<PriceChild> 'thanks' hasn't been around very long omparatively.
<wgrant> Hm, I guess that feature is only fairly new, isn't it?
<PriceChild> maybe a year, not sure
<elkbuntu> better than kaarma crap anyday
<wgrant> He has enough 2nd-level Ubuntu-related domains!
<elkbuntu> they're all .info, no?
<wgrant> Yes.
<PriceChild> uu more people have put me as their referrer
 * wgrant goes to bed, happy with the knowledge that Ultamatix's death sentence is being carried out.
<jussi01> PriceChild: any word from the CC yet? last I heard was this on friday:
<jussi01> [13:06:05] <jussi01> Hey there, Just another quick repoke re: IRCC - been a week since I last poked :D
<jussi01> [13:06:58] <dholbach> I poked just today, we're discussing and I hope we get moving quickly
<elkbuntu> jussi01, assuming they'll email the ircc list, rather than pricey privately, no word yet.
<jussi01> elkbuntu: ok. :) thanks
<elkbuntu> the wikipedia page has been updated
<PriceChild> Hmm acerhk doesn't compile on Intrepid :(
<PriceChild> oh but there is a package in intrepid.. :/
<ikonia> PriceChild: from native source, or the deb source package ?
<PriceChild> !info acerhk-source
<ubottu> acerhk-source (source: acerhk): Source for the acerhk driver. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.5.35-3 (intrepid), package size 37 kB, installed size 80 kB
<PriceChild> Just installed and modprobed with a few options :D
<jussi01> So ikoniaI was thinking I should probably stop in birmingham or somewhere and have a beer with these crazy people there... suggestions?
<ikonia> jussi01: what sort of info are you looking for
<bazhang> welshman
<jussi01> ikonia: well... is it feaseable to go via birmingham... Im on a budget..
<ikonia> if your coming to mine from manchester you will stop or maybe even change trains in birmingham so won't effect any budget 
<bazhang> going to remove him again if he keeps up
<bazhang> he has been removed once already ; now giving openly bad advice
<ikonia> !staff | 15:47 -!- mo_tau_aja [n=ioioi@124.195.112.113]
<ubottu> 15:47 -!- mo_tau_aja [n=ioioi@124.195.112.113]: Hey nalioth, jenda, rob, SportChick, seanw, Dave2, Christel, tomaw, Gary, Vorian or PriceChild, I could  use a bit of your time :)
<ikonia> spamming paypal hack links
<bazhang> welshman offtopic; concur?
<PriceChild> bazhang: What has happenned so far with it?
<bazhang> PriceChild, with that user?
<PriceChild> yep, have you done anything?
<bazhang> PriceChild, he has been warned repeatedly, and he was removed once.
<bazhang> he has continued unabated however
<PriceChild> All done.
<bazhang> thanks PriceChild 
<PriceChild> bazhang: I didn't do a thing.
<bazhang> the line was when he started giving out clearly wrong info to users
<bazhang> PriceChild, no; thanks for hearing me out.
<nalioth> mo_tau_aja shown the door
<ikonia> danke
<ubottu> ompaul called the ops in #ubuntu-offtopic (^^)
<nalioth> so he did
<ubottu> In #ubuntu, NicEXE said: ! my problem is MySQL not MythTV ! I tried to install MythTV today but the installation was unsuccessful. (the installation was staying in the same point even if I was clicking next: "chose a new password for mysql server") The problem is that me and the rest world can no longer view my website because of a database error: "Database Error: Unable to connect to the database:Could not connect to MySQL" How can I go back? I hav
<nalioth> ubottu: tell nicexe about yourself
<Susana> is this the place to report people who are trying to convince people they are freenode staff when they are not identified as such?
<Susana> or is that normal?
<jussi01> Susana: no, that would be #freenode
<PriceChild> Susana: PM?
<jussi01> oh, you are in luck
<nalioth> ikonia: you have most of the staff here
<ikonia> nalioth: pm ok ?
<nalioth> ikonia: "you may always PM staff"
<ikonia> just double checking
<Tm_T> christel: nooooooooooooo
 * LjL jumps off the chair
<ikonia> evening gents
<christel> Tm_T: im so sorry :)
<christel> hehe
<Tm_T> oh well, have to find reasonable option for orwell
<Tm_T> christel: better? (;
<christel> yus! much :)
<Tm_T> any estimation?
<christel> it'll go down at 9pm gmt, we've said 1h for the downtime window but it shouldnt take anywhere near that long, maybe 20 minutes max
 * Flannel grumbles at people laying in wait.
<LjL> Flannel, annoying huh
<Flannel> Only when I don't know the answer ;)
<Tm_T> Susana: who are you?
<Flannel> "I couldn't solve your issue last night, was relieved when you went to bed, why couldn't someone else solve it this morning?"
<Susana> Tm_T: ?
<Tm_T> Susana: I mean, is there something we can help you with?
<jussi01> !idle | Susana
<ubottu> Susana: Please keep in mind that this channel is for operator/abuse questions only, and we ask you to part when you have no further business here, in order to keep track of users with pending inquiries.
<Susana> ok sorry bye
<Tm_T> (:
<jussi01> Tm_T: your backwards smileys are annoying...
<Tm_T> I'm leftie
 * Flannel reads from left to right, not the other way around.
<Flannel> Tm_T: ?oot siht ekil gnitirw gniog ot trats uoy erA
<Flannel> hmmm
<jussi01> what?
<Flannel> mix those words around so they make sense.
<Tm_T> Flannel: err, no?
<Flannel> s/start to going/going to start/
<jussi01> Flannel: backwards!!
<Mez> jussi01: lennalF?
<Mez> (is that like gandalf?)
<Mez> wgrant: you look scary
<Flannel> Mez: Shhh.  You're giving away the source of my powers.
<Mez> your precious ?
<ikonia> you beat me to it by a second
<ikonia> Flannel: 
 * Flannel wins!
<Flannel> ikonia: I was considering a variety of reasons.
<Flannel> decided to just keep it simple
<ikonia> who was the mibbet guy ?
<Flannel> no idea
<Flannel> 13:06 < wiggaplz> Can Ibex handle 12" of cock in his rectum?
<ikonia> didn't see that
<Flannel> right after the "can intrepid handle 3rd party repos"
<wgrant> Mez: How do you know?
<Nafallo> wgrant: aren't you asleep?
<wgrant> Ah, I see the friend request.
<wgrant> Not any more.
<Flannel> tritium: er....
<Flannel> not ban evasion?
<wgrant> I was about 40 seconds ago.
<tritium> Flannel: ?
<Flannel> tritium: He wasn't banned.
<Nafallo> wgrant: geek
<tritium> Flannel: was he muted?
<Flannel> tritium: No, I just removed him.
<tritium> Ah, sorry.  My bad.
<Flannel> tritium: He was *going* to be banned, based on his next few sentences
<wgrant> Nafallo: Correct.
<Flannel> but, its likely moot.
<tritium> Flannel: I'm sorry.
<Flannel> No worries
<tritium> Now what??
<Flannel> nothing.  He was out to cause trouble from the get-go
<tritium> OK, I should have left him to you.
<Mez> wgrant: lol - blame Nafallo for that ;)
<wgrant> Mez: I noticed.
<wgrant> Heh.
<Nafallo> paah. only 19 friend suggestions :-P
<Nafallo> well, 20, but one was only slightly Ubuntu related ;-)
 * Flannel fully admits it was probably premature.
<Flannel> So, who votes these are all the same guy?
 * Flannel wins!
#ubuntu-ops 2009-10-26
<ubottu> maco called the ops in #ubuntu (nicholas_)
<niko> mneptok: :)
<MenZa> fax: Can I help you?
<fax> MenZa:
<fax>  <LjL> fax: pasting a whole huge line of "FUCK"s in *another* channel is NOT the way to deal with spam in a channel.
<fax>  <LjL> fax: ok, you're an idiot. bye.
<fax>  <LjL> fax: HINT: why do you think it's appropriate to spam a channel FIRST, and then to act as the victim later because you're pointed out you've behaved like a fool? HINT: it isn't
<fax>  <WastePotato> fax: wut going on
<fax>  <LjL> be glad you weren't k-lined, and fuck off
<MenZa> fax: Does this have anything to do with this channel?
<nalioth> fax: can we help you?
<MenZa> We don't govern ##club-ubuntu.
<fax> MenZa: Why are you asking me in this channel one moment then having a go at me the next for talkign about it here?
 * MenZa is confused.
<fax> MenZa: Me too, why did you join this chan and ask if you could help me?
<fax> MenZa: Was that code for: please leave this channel?
<MenZa> fax: I joined this channel awhile ago, and I merely noticed you were around.
<fax> if so I am happy to oblige
<fax> alright all I saw is:
<fax>  * MenZa (n=menza@pdpc/supporter/student/menza) has joined #ubuntu-ops
<fax>  * ChanServ gives voice to MenZa
<fax>  <MenZa> fax: Can I help you?
<fax> I thought you were referring to the thing that just happened
<MenZa> I *just* joined the channel just now?
<MenZa> fax: No, not at all. I don't care for the rules in ##club, nor do I have a *clue* what you're talking about :)
<MenZa> fax: Besides, I set this channel to join about an hour and a half ago, so that's odd
<nalioth> fax: is there something we can help you with?
<fax> MenZa: this is how it looks to me http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/5159/picture5ke.png
<fax> nalioth, no. Thank you
<nalioth> fax: we have nothing to do with ##club-ubuntu
<nalioth> and i'm really not seeing why you're here
<MenZa> I'm pretty sure I joined a while back, but I wouldn't know.
<fax> nalioth I just explained it a moment ago
<vox> MenZa: 1hr 10min again
<vox> *ago
<vox> i need coffee :(
<fax> MenZa I don't have timestamps to I don't know the times
<MenZa> vox: ta :)
<fax> nalioth: I joined becaues that "Getsuga" spammer said that I was being redirected into this channel in PM
<fax> nalioth that was earlier today
<nalioth> and are you?
<fax> nalioth when I joined here it said <ubottu> In ubottu, Getsuga said: Linux is the operating system from hell, programmed by heathens.  Real men use AIX.
<KB1JWQ> fax: Have you read the /topic?
<vox> lol
<nalioth> vox: such is policy
<vox> im not complaining
<ubottu> LjL called the ops in #ubuntu (Hasbro is trolling and hedkandi isn't helping)
<KB1JWQ> Mind if I tempquiet Hasbro in #ubuntu?
<KB1JWQ> Welp, so ended that.
<KB1JWQ> I'll face the music if anyone wants me to. :-)
<MenZa> KB1JWQ: I'm behind you on this one.
<Flannel> When are we starting up -release-party?
<vox> i know it's o/t
<vox> but todays xkcd is made from win
<Flannel> vox: Indeed
<Flannel> well, the site redesign moreso than the comic, but yes.
<vox> yes
<maco> haha thats what we're discussing in -women
<Flannel> maco: Did you mean to ask that in #ubuntu?
<maco> Flannel: yes. i knew you were online. trying to hint to you to read what was going on just before i said that :P
<maco> Flannel: im confused by Hetor`
<Flannel> letting me know in here works ;)
<maco> fair nuff
<nalioth> interesting version reply on Hetor`
<maco> oh?
<maco> i should learn to use irc. that took 3 tries to figure out.\
<Flannel> He's apparently turned it off.
<ubottu> In #kubuntu, kb9vqf said: !kde3 is Kubuntu 8.04 ships with KDE3 and full support. Jaunty and Karmic do not include KDE3 but a remix install CD can be obtained at  https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Kde3/Jaunty or https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Kde3/Karmic. This is not officially supported. Support, instructions and ways to contribute can be found on the wiki pages
<kb9vqf> Hi, I recently submitted a factoid to Ubottu about kde3; if I remember protocol correctly I'm supposed to mention something here about it? :-)
<jussi01> !kde3
<ubottu> Kubuntu 8.04 ships with KDE3 and full support. Jaunty does not include KDE3 but a remix install CD can be obtained at  https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Kde3/Jaunty . This is not officially supported. Support, instructions and ways to contribute can be found on the wiki page
<jussi01> !kde3-#kubuntu
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about kde3-#kubuntu
<jussi01> My opinion is that we wait till karmic comes out and change it then, but only 1 url. 2 makes it too long.
<Madpilot> amusing... crack down on unitypunk's abuse of the Enter key, and it's like we muted him...
<ubottu> In ubottu, guntbert said: !hostname is somewhat strange at the moment...
<Madpilot> !hostname
<ubottu> hostname is Use hostname <somehostname> to set the hostname, or to do it permanently: edit /etc/hostname  and /etc/hosts . WARNING! Make sure that your current hostname and /etc/hosts match, otherwise sudo may not work properly.
<Madpilot> no, hostname is <reply>Use hostname <somehostname> to set the hostname, or to do it permanently: edit /etc/hostname  and /etc/hosts . WARNING! Make sure that your current hostname and /etc/hosts match, otherwise sudo may not work properly.
<Madpilot> ubottu, no, hostname is <reply>Use hostname <somehostname> to set the hostname, or to do it permanently: edit /etc/hostname  and /etc/hosts . WARNING! Make sure that your current hostname and /etc/hosts match, otherwise sudo may not work properly.
<ubottu> In #ubuntu-ops, Madpilot said: ubottu, no, hostname is <reply>Use hostname <somehostname> to set the hostname, or to do it permanently: edit /etc/hostname  and /etc/hosts . WARNING! Make sure that your current hostname and /etc/hosts match, otherwise sudo may not work properly.
<Madpilot> @login
<ubottu> The operation succeeded.
<Madpilot> ubottu, no, hostname is <reply>Use hostname <somehostname> to set the hostname, or to do it permanently: edit /etc/hostname  and /etc/hosts . WARNING! Make sure that your current hostname and /etc/hosts match, otherwise sudo may not work properly.
<Madpilot> um, has the syntax changed for corrections?
<Flannel> Madpilot: try !no instead of ubottu, no
<Flannel> Also, maybe try without a comma
<Madpilot> !no, hostname is <reply>Use hostname <somehostname> to set the hostname, or to do it permanently: edit /etc/hostname  and /etc/hosts . WARNING! Make sure that your current hostname and /etc/hosts match, otherwise sudo may not work properly.
<ubottu> I'll remember that Madpilot
<Madpilot> !hostname
<ubottu> Use hostname <somehostname> to set the hostname, or to do it permanently: edit /etc/hostname  and /etc/hosts . WARNING! Make sure that your current hostname and /etc/hosts match, otherwise sudo may not work properly.
<Madpilot> there
<Flannel> That took
<Madpilot> Flannel, well, he did switch to English... :|
<Flannel> Yeah... about that...
<Flannel> translators on the internet apparently didn't like his spelling.
<genii> I'm dreading #ubuntu+1 merge
<Pici> I'm dreading #ubuntu-release-party
<genii> I sort of enjoy release-party :)
<jussi01> Tm_T: ping
<Tm_T> yes, son?
<Tm_T> jussi01: ye?
<jussi01> Tm_T: pm?
<Slart> hullo
<Slart> someone might want to take a look at damagednoon in #ubuntu .. smells like a bot, quacks like a bot etc etc =)
<Slart> sorry.. damagednoob in #ubuntu
<ikonia> ok
<ubottu> In #kubuntu, kb9vqf_ said: !kde3 is Kubuntu 8.04 ships with KDE3 and full support. Jaunty and Karmic do not include KDE3 but a remix install CD can be obtained at  https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Kde3/Jaunty or https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Kde3/Karmic. This is not officially supported. Support, instructions and ways to contribute can be found on the wiki pages
#ubuntu-ops 2009-10-27
<Pici> !away > gh0zt_afk
<IdleOne> can we get someone to stop all the man dick and man rape comments ?
<IdleOne> guess not
<ubottu> IdleOne called the ops in #ubuntu (Xarver)
<Flannel> elky_work: What's that for? (I don't see anything he said in the log)
<elky> Flannel, search for "man rape" and "man dick"
<elky> unless you're ok with rape being trivialised and all that jazz, rape culture style.
<Flannel> Oh, I was looking at NiteSnow for some reason.
<elky> i'm just responding to idleone's concern above. i was off getting lunch when it happened.
<Flannel> elky: No need to get defensive, I just had the wrong person for some reason.
<elky> you dont have the stuff idleone said in scrollback?
<Flannel> I did.  I just /lastlogged something funky and got NiteSnow, who said two things that weren't out of place.
<Flannel> I just got back to my keyboard from stuff, so I was playing catchup and wondered what I missed.
<nalioth> w/ 1
<nalioth> bleh ( iahte lag )
<Flannel> Oh bother on the banlist being full
<BigUrsis> Sorry to be a bother, but can someone keep an eye out for arquebus, nightshade, in uot?
<BigUrsis> mainly nightshade for language in uot?
<elky> tourists from planet club. joy.
<genii> Anyone object if I edit !eeepc to mention #ubuntu-eeepc and #eeepc ?
<Tm_T> !eepc
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about eepc
<Tm_T> !eeepc
<ubottu> Information about installing Ubuntu on an Asus EeePC can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EeePC
<Tm_T> genii: please do
<genii> !eeepc
<ubottu> Information about installing Ubuntu on an Asus EeePC can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EeePC . The Ubuntu EeePC Channel is #ubuntu-eeepc , The main Eeepc discussion channel is #eeepc
<genii> Acceptable ?
<Tm_T> sure
<Tm_T> though, why not "main Eeepc discussion in #eeepc" or similar
<genii> OK, also just noticed I need to uppercase second mention of EeePC
<genii> !eeepc
<ubottu> Information about installing Ubuntu on an Asus EeePC can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EeePC . The Ubuntu EeePC Channel is #ubuntu-eeepc , main EeePC discussion in #eeepc
<Pici> lots of karmic stuff today
<Pici> probably should get u-r-p going
<Seeker`> can I get added to the access list in #u-r-p?
<ubottu> In ubottu, nightshade said: !awesomeness is Nightshade is the most awesome of all dudes!  He kicks ass!!!
<Pici> no comment.
<ubottu> In ubottu, nightshade said: !forget mp3
<genii> !awesomeness
<ubottu> awesomeness is Ubuntu!
<Pici> !-awesomeness
<ubottu> awesomeness has no aliases - added by genii on 2009-10-27 18:43:16
<Pici> I see.
 * genii sips
<krummlauf> sup
<ikonia> krummlauf: hi, thanks for joining
<krummlauf> yeah what is it
<ikonia> krummlauf: I've asked you to come in here to talk about your interaction in #ubuntu
<krummlauf> im listening
<ikonia> krummlauf: are you aware of the guidelines of using the channel ?
<krummlauf> no
<ikonia> ok, so that sounds like a good place to start
<ikonia> !guidelines
<ubottu> The guidelines for using the Ubuntu channels can be found here: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines
<ikonia> krummlauf: if you're going to use that channel, have a quick read through those, it may prevent you getting into any issues with the channel operators
<ikonia> you where not really interacting well with the channel, and your comments where starting to cause a distruption (hence why you where removed)
<ikonia> a quick read through those guidelines may help you interact easier in future
<krummlauf> When helping: be helpful << id like a little more attention paid to this one
<krummlauf> i noticed you didnt castigate the other users for being counter productive in their interactions
<ikonia> krummlauf: if you read the scroll back I did - and they stopped
<krummlauf> why dont you invite that Xs3s3 fellow in here and lecture him about the....fine
<ikonia> I stopped the person name calling and also sent a private message to another user
<krummlauf> ok thats fine, i agree
<ikonia> good
<ikonia> it's not a lecuture, it's a request that may help you use the channel better
<krummlauf> yes
<krummlauf> i just want to use a working streamer that isnt totem
<ikonia> thanks for coming in
<ikonia> great, well, if you have no more questions you're welcome to leave the channel and return to #ubuntu
<krummlauf> can i stay here
<krummlauf> i feel warm and comfortable here
<ikonia> this channel has a no-idle policy so that we can help people when they come in and need it
<ikonia> check the /topic
<krummlauf> so why did you invite me here in the first place
<krummlauf> kinda backwards huh?
<ikonia> so that I could talk to you about your behaviour without disruptintg the channel
<ikonia> krummlauf: anything else you need/want from the operator team ?
<krummlauf> yeah
<krummlauf> make this OS work for something
<ikonia> what's up ?
<ikonia> sorry - that's not the topic of this channel, #ubuntu is for support
<krummlauf> right
<krummlauf> well i need some
<ikonia> so if there are no operator issues you need to discuss you're welcome to leave the channel and return to #ubuntu
<krummlauf> fine
<ikonia> I think he will continue to be an issue
<ubottu> guntbert called the ops in #ubuntu (krummlauf is at it again)
<ikonia> delt
<ikonia> I knew he would be an issue
<ubottu> chaos2fu called the ops in #ubuntu ()
<Tm_T> ):
<ubottu> erUSUL called the ops in #ubuntu (Root-Sac)
<ikonia> delt
<niko> was our belgium guy
<ikonia> yes hit other channels too, I was about to nudge pricey as he hit gentoo and debian, but your active too :)
<Pricey> ugh not in them
<ikonia> Pricey: excess flood got him, but as he's joined #freenode I thought it worth nudging you, but niko is active too
<Pricey> ikonia: Thanks, we'll look into it.
<ikonia> ahh the best nick of the day arrives
<ikonia> Pricey: ahh bang on cue ;)
<Pricey> ikonia: hm?
<Picipod> :)
<Seeker`> Picipod: ?#
<ikonia> Pricey: as soon as I said that he hit #freenod (nal delt with )
<Pricey> Ah, my eyes were elsewhere.
<ikonia> just ammused me as I hit enter to you, he also hit enter
<Picipod> Seeker`: ahoy
<Seeker`> on an ipod?
<Picipod> Indeedy.
<ikonia> Pricey: what client ?
<ikonia> Pricey: sorry- not you
<ikonia> Picipod: what client ?
<Picipod> ikonia: rooms
<ikonia> I'll have a look at that
<Picipod> I dont remember if it was free or npt, but it couldnt have been too much since i did buy it
<topyli> Picipod's two cents :(
<Picipod> Hi. How can we help you today?
<Seeker`> is it out yet?
<Picipod> !isitout
<ubottu> No! It's not out yet!
<ikonia> krummlauf: you have been forwarded to this channel and banned from the #ubuntu channel again due to your outburst less than 60 seconds after leaving this channel earlier
<ikonia> duk: you have been forwarded to this channel from #ubuntu due to your ident of "Fuckoff" to gain access to #ubuntu please change your ident to something non-offensive
<ikonia> duk: your irc name of "Fuckofmoron" will also need to be changed to gain access to #ubuntu
<duk> njah
<duk> sry ppl
<duk> :)
<duk> this is serbian word for butterfly
<ikonia> no it's not
<duk> yes it is
<ikonia> "fuck off" is the serbian word for butterfly ?
<duk> no
<duk> fuckoffmoron
<ikonia> no it's not
<duk> this has no connections with fuck off
<ikonia> ok - do you want to disscuss this normally ? or do you want to mess around ?
<duk> and yes, it is
<Seeker`> he is talking about your ident, not your nickname
<duk> I haven't made any problems
<duk> neither one
<ikonia> duk: ok - I'll make this clear
<ikonia> "fuck off" and "fuckoffmoron" will need to be changed to gain access to #ubuntu
<duk> ok
<duk> no problem..
<duk> I have just one question
<ikonia> ok
<duk> how do I remove servers from autoconnect?
<ikonia> that will depend on your client
<Seeker`> this channel isn't for support
<duk> ok
<duk> sry
<ikonia> the client you use will have a support channel you can ask in
<duk> if someone can help me with xchat..
<ikonia> join #xchat
<duk> ok, tnx :)
<duk> and sry for ident..
<duk> this is just for one gay who made me problems on another server
<duk> he TOed my channels..
<ikonia> that attitude is not appropriate
<ikonia> duk: I'm not interested in your reasons
<ikonia> duk: if you have no other business in this channel please leave
<duk> I didn't even want to come..
<ikonia> !idle | krummlauf
<ubottu> krummlauf: Please keep in mind that this channel is for operator/abuse questions only; we ask you to part when you have no further business here in order to keep track of users with pending inquiries.
<Flannel> What a lovely fellow
<ikonia> he is a "butter fly"
<ikonia> anyone with +o in here please be aware of krummlauf idling
<ikonia> he was a problem in #ubuntu and forwarded here
<Tm_T> krummlauf: hi how can we help you?
<ikonia> thank you
<pleia2> jpds: ubot4 will need to be restarted again (linode is doing some reboots, -us-pa server was among them)
 * pleia2 didn't learn about this until *after* the reboot, grumble
<krummlauf> hi
<krummlauf> i said hail satan in caps in main channel on accident
<Seeker`> how do you manage to do that by accident?
<krummlauf> i was unaware i was in the channel at the time, being negligent
<krummlauf> + im using xchat, and im new to the format and you cant see all your windows simultaneously, so i thought i was in another channel then i was when i entered the msg see?
<genii> krummlauf: The op who banned you is currently not around. Return here later if you wish to speak to them regarding your current ban in #ubuntu
<ubottu> Slart called the ops in #ubuntu (javi123654, minabesa)
<Flannel> ikonia: Yeah.
<ikonia> cool
<Flannel> ikonia: Someone got punchy when someone was speaking spanish (and asking how to join #ubuntu-es)
<ikonia> yup, just checking in, ljl seems on top
#ubuntu-ops 2009-10-28
<jpds> pleia2: Thanks for letting me know, prodded it.
<jpds> pleia2: Running: sudo -u jpds ~jpds/start_bot - should wake the bot up too.
<pleia2> jpds: yeah, I don't want to do it without you in case it goes nutty and eats freenode or something :)
<LjL> hi
<LjL> !paste
<ubottu> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com (or !pastebinit for CLI) | For pasting !screenshots use http://tinyurl.com/imagebin Please give us the URLs for your posts!
<LjL> !pastebin
<ubottu> pastebin is a service to post multiple-lined texts so you don't flood the channel. Ubuntu pastebin is at  http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://tinyurl.com/imagebin | !pastebinit to paste directly from  command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic
<LjL> these seem to have become a bit of a mess. they used to be aliased, and, erm, i guess slightly shorter
<LjL> also, i thought the bot wasn't using the "|" notation anywhere these days
<jussi01> !-paste
<ubottu> paste has no aliases - added by Seveas on 2006-06-17 22:52:19 - last edited by elky on 2009-09-08 13:06:49
<jussi01> !-pastebin
<ubottu> pastebin aliases: flood, flooding, pb, pasting - added by LjL on 2006-06-24 18:47:46 - last edited by Seeker` on 2009-07-04 22:52:42
 * jussi01 slaps elky and Seeker`...
<elky> excuse? 2006-06-17 trumps 2006-06-24
<jussi01> elky: look at your edit date?
<elky> yes, and if i recall, i was just doing an edit ikonia suggested.
<jussi01> !ops | this is a reminder, please take extra care when editing factoids! Pretty much the whole IRC community relies on them and we need to make sure they are of high quality
<ubottu> this is a reminder, please take extra care when editing factoids! Pretty much the whole IRC community relies on them and we need to make sure they are of high quality: Help! Channel emergency! (ONLY use this trigger in emergencies) -  elky,  imbrandon, DBO, gnomefreak, Hobbsee, rob, Madpilot, CarlK, crimsun, ajmitch, tritium, Nalioth, thoreauputic, apokryphos, tonyyarusso,  PriceChild, Amaranth, jrib, jenda, nixternal, Myrtti, mneptok, Pici, Jack_Sp
<ubottu> jussi01 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops (this is a reminder, please take extra care when editing factoids! Pretty much the whole IRC community relies on them and we need to make sure they are of high quality)
<Flannel> haha
<jussi01> elky: still, if you edit, it becomes your respoonsibility.
<jussi01> Flannel: ??
<elky> jussi01, how about you find out who broke the aliasing, before throwing your weight around like this.
<Flannel> jussi01: I was trying to figure out why I wasn't highlighted with the ops call--was cutoff
 * Amaranth makes a note to put himself at the bottom of the list ;)
<Amaranth> Also, it seems to be somewhat out of date
<Amaranth> hmm, or not
<Amaranth> I thought Hobbsee was not doing ops for #ubuntu anymore
<jussi01> Amaranth: she's on the access list still...
<Amaranth> Right, thus the confusion
<elky> i dont even know who CarlK is...
<Flannel> Amaranth: the factoid isn't very channel specific
<mneptok> jussi01: oy
 * jussi01 bites mneptok
<mneptok> jussi01: need to coordinate the open week thang
<jussi01> mneptok: yup.
<jussi01> mneptok: soo, how you want to do this?
<mneptok> jussi01: i'm thinking 5 minute intro. 20 minutes "this is how you use IRC" and 20m "this is proper etiquette." 15m of q&a.
<jussi01> mneptok: could work, though we are likely to get lots of q&a
<mneptok> alternative idea?
<jussi01> 5, 15, 15, 25?
<mneptok> jussi01: i think the more effort we put into content the fewer the questions.
<jussi01> mneptok: true
<Flannel> mneptok, jussi01: from experience, type it out beforehand and then just copy/paste (at a regular typing rate) during the session
 * Flannel had bad experiences when paired up with someone in the past.
<mneptok> Flannel: thanks. done this before. :)
<elky> one UOW session i ran, i think in the second one, the person running the UW session got trapped in traffic and i ended up having to wing it. that was adrenaline...
<mneptok> UW = Ubuntu Women?
<Flannel> elky: My partner went way overtime, so I ended up with 10 minutes to cover 25 minutes of info, plus questions.  Wasn't fun.
<ubottu> maco called the ops in #ubuntu (Ser10UzMC bad language)
<mneptok> elky: know where i could find a decent slot machine simulator in Perl?
<elky> mneptok, i know where you can find an atrocious one. if you're looking for quality, i cant help.
<maco> hahaha
<mneptok> elky: talk to skud. cleanup is underway. :)
<maco> she knows
<elky> mneptok, yea. check the logs for ponyland.
<mneptok> elky: apparently source size is cut by 75% just by if/else streamlining
<maco> holy crap
 * mneptok exaggerates. but only slightly.
<elky> mneptok, yeah, all the worlds elifs
<mneptok> the only thing that sucks about GeekFem cleaning it up is now i'm beginning to believe, "women don't make important code contributions"
<mneptok> ;)
<mneptok> IOW, "for the love of sweet Jebus, go work on something worthwhile!"
 * elky raises an eyebrow.
<mneptok> 'cause his sh*t ain't
<mneptok> it's amazing he rants about contributions, and his one app is SUCH total garbage.
<maco> pwning him isnt worthwhile?
<mneptok> oh, it is. for a few reasons.
<mneptok> but watching talent wasted on fixing his stuff is painful at the same time.
<elky> mneptok, enough. please stop.
<mneptok> elky: hmm?
<maco> she already knows dude
<maco> she's involved with it
<elky> mneptok, you cant hear how patronising you're sounding.
<mneptok> elky: perhaps it's more your ears than my tone.
<mneptok> *shrug*
<elky> mneptok, perhaps its what you're saying, not the tone.
<elky> mneptok, as i said, actually look at the commit logs for ponyland.
<mneptok> elky: already been done.
<elky> and stop telling us to "do something worthwhile".
<mneptok> elky: it;s meant in jest. and more a comment about the horrid and worthless nature of his code.
<elky> mneptok, you're not helping anything and you're not amusing either of us.
<mneptok> elky: well, i thought you'd understand my sarcasm directed squarely at Mikee. knowing you don't, i will be much less inclined to attempt humor in your presence again.
<elky> mneptok, your sarcasm in telling me to "talk to skud" is aimed at mikee?
<mneptok> elky: it sounded from what you said that you were unaware that people were actively fixing stuff.
<elky> mneptok, i am in the commit log for pony land. you say you checked there. what would make you think i was unaware given this?
<mneptok> elky: i didn't review line-by-line. i was hsown some funny pieces over a dinner last week.
<mneptok> *shown
<jussi01> maco: I wonder how long itll last...
<tonyyarusso> Um, elky?  Just coming in an reading that screen of scrollback thirdhand it looks clear to me what mneptok meant, and it was fine...
<elky> tonyyarusso, <mneptok> elky: talk to skud. cleanup is underway. :)
<elky> <maco> she knows
<elky> <elky> mneptok, yea. check the logs for ponyland.
 * Tm_T huggles everyone
<mneptok> elky: you can choose to read it as "he's not aware i'm owrking on it, i'll tell him and share a laugh" or choose to read it in the most negative way possible and land on me like a ton of bricks. i would have *really* preferred the former.
<jussi01> possible incoming
<Tm_T> yes, Tm_T, you too
<CheapSexAndBooze> what the shit
<Tm_T> CheapSexAndBooze: I'm not
<elky> mneptok, i did tell you. all three times i mentioned ponyland's commit logs.
<mneptok> CheapSexAndBooze: your language is not helping the already obvious problem with your nick.
<CheapSexAndBooze> why  the fuck was i banned
<tonyyarusso> That would probably be why.
<mneptok> CheapSexAndBooze: those last 2 inputlines would probably be an indicator.
 * Tm_T almost asked "how can we help you" but apparently it wasn't needed
<CheapSexAndBooze> well shit nigga
<mneptok> CheapSexAndBooze: anything else you need?
<tonyyarusso> CheapSexAndBooze: I don't have to be subjected to reading that sort of thing - either make your case in a respectable fashion pronto or you can come back quite a bit later when you're more ready to.
<CheapSexAndBooze> let me back up in this bitch and we will see if i can change
<mneptok> CheapSexAndBooze: let's not, hmm?
<kniggit> how bout now
<kniggit> how bout now
<tonyyarusso> Geez, it's extra special kind of stupid tonight...
<kniggit> you mean im not banned any more?
<mneptok> not at the moment.
<mneptok> (well, in this channel)
<kniggit> cool
<kniggit> im sorry
<elky> that would be subject to how you behave.
<mneptok> kniggit: that's a good start,
<kniggit> can i go in the other channels now
<mneptok> i'm afraid not.
<mneptok> after some of your behavior, a quick "i'm sorry" is not going to get you unbanned.
<kniggit> i will be good i promise
<kniggit> please
<mneptok> !coc
<ubottu> The Ubuntu Code of Conduct to which we ask all Ubuntu users to adhere can be found at http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct/
<mneptok> please read that
<kniggit> i already have
<kniggit> it just didnt register untill now
<kniggit> hello
<elky> ok, so which part of it did you break to get banned?
<mneptok> kniggit: it's 00:30 for you. how about you sleep on it?
<kniggit> but i just woke up
<kniggit> like an hour ago
<mneptok> at 12:30am
<kniggit> yea
<mneptok> well, even better. instead of sleeping, you can actually think about it.
<mneptok> think about what you called jussi01, and why that's inappropriate *anywhere*
<kniggit> i will be good
<kniggit> please
<mneptok> i'm not going to unban you.
<kniggit> why
<mneptok> but if jussi01 wants to, that's up to him
<kniggit> it because im black huh?
<jussi01> kniggit: how do we know that?
<jussi01> kniggit: Please come back in 3 days and we can look at your ban again.
<kniggit> didnt i just tell you that
<kniggit> what three days
<kniggit> for a five minute missunderstanding
<mneptok> dholbach: heya
<dholbach> hi mneptok
<kniggit> thats a bit harsh dont you think
<mneptok> dholbach: wie geht's?
<kniggit> thats like burning down the house to get rid of termites
<dholbach> mneptok: I'm a bit tired, but OK :)
<dholbach> how about you?
<jussi01> kniggit: 3 days isnt a real long time, however if you can show good participation in other ubuntu channels, then Im willing to look again tomorrow.
<mneptok> dholbach: same. need bed soon. you need something from -ops? or just a visit?
<jussi01> mneptok: I invited dholbach in to have a look at things
<kniggit> ok which channels
<dholbach> mneptok: just hanging out with the ops :)
<mneptok> jussi01: ah, OK
<jussi01> kniggit: you are welcome without the swearing and attitude in any of the ubuntu channels.
<jussi01> kniggit: you just need to follow the channel guidelines
<mneptok> dholbach: there are 2 day old cookies under tonyyarusso's sofa cushion. help yourself.
<jussi01> !guidelines | kniggit
<ubottu> kniggit: The guidelines for using the Ubuntu channels can be found here: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines
<kniggit> really you mean it
<kniggit> im un banned
 * tonyyarusso wonders how mneptok's been getting in
<jussi01> kniggit: I mean we can look at your #ubuntu-offtopic ban tomorrow, and you are welcome in other places now if you can behave.
<mneptok> kniggit: and that means staying on-topic in the channels you choose to use.
<mneptok> kniggit: for instance, #ubuntu is a support channel.
<dholbach> mneptok: awesomw
<kniggit> you CUNT FAG JEW NIGGER CHINK
<maco> interesting combination
<mneptok> charming!
<kniggit> tyou suck
<jussi01> kniggit: your ban just got longer.
<mneptok> kniggit: if you really are black, i find your use of the word "nigger" as a pejorative somewhat confusing.
<jussi01> kniggit: is there something else we can help you with?
<kniggit> oh fuck your mother in her fucking fat loose wrinkley cunt
<elky> le sigh.
<Tm_T> kids <3
<mneptok> i'm going out for a smoke and to weep for humanity.
<Tm_T> mneptok: <1 year old daughter does give some perspective, I can tell (though didn't do much for me, as I'm very well familiar with human life in it's whole agespan)
<elky> he's now stalking jussi01 across the channels. yay.
<jussi01> He really has it in for me doesnt he.
<Tm_T> jussi01: you have a fan, let's hope it cools enough
<jussi01> Tm_T: hehe, yeah.
<Tm_T> I haven't been able to do any administration work in pretty much any channel in long time
<jussi01> Tm_T: why is that?
<Tm_T> weird, I'd say, prolly people behave when I'm around
<Tm_T> or someone else is faster than me
 * jussi01 hands Tm_T some scripts
<Tm_T> jussi01: won't help if it takes minute or two to me to realise someone have been misbehaving (:
<Tm_T>  /j #kopete
<Tm_T> ... I love unstable wlan
<jussi01> Tm_T: so youll be here what time sunday?
<jussi01> and which place you stayin?
<Tm_T> we'll be there on saturday, I heard, but not sure what time then, I'll ask what hotel
<indus> hi
<indus> no nvm
<ubottu> In #ubuntu, ubuntu_ said: ubottu: where is the answer ? lol
<ubot3> In ubot3, Pici said: no isitout is <reply> No! Its not out yet!
<Pici> nalioth: Could you take a look at that factoid request? ^
 * nalioth looks
<nalioth> what about it?
<Pici> nalioth: Well, ubot3 is in #ubuntu-release-party, and !isitout is saying that well, its out. And I don't seem to have access to modify factoids, or I forgot how to login to the bot.
<nalioth> Pici: you modify factoids with ubottu
<nalioth> the ubottu db is synced hourly with ubot3
<nalioth> otherwise, we'd have  9 different bots with 9 different factoid sets
<Pici> nalioth: Are you sure? I modified !isitout yesterday
<nalioth> please modify factoids with ubottu
<Pici> nalioth: I do. And will continue to.  I think that ubot3 is not syncing though.
<Pici> It was silly to suggest a factoid change with ubot3, since I do know that they should get synced.  I'll blame it on caffeine deficiency today.
<Pici> I added !mirrorstatus on Oct 7th and its not on ubot3
<nalioth> ubottu: isitout
<ubottu> No! Its not out yet!
<nalioth> hmm
<nalioth> Pici: there ya go
<Pici> nalioth: Thanks
<nalioth> these bots aren't designed to stay up a long time
<nalioth> :(
<nalioth> they start going senile after a couple weeks :P
<Pici> :/
<nalioth> maybe i should set a cronjob to kill&restart it every 2 weeks. . .
<Tm_T>   ye
<Pici> !karmic
<ubottu> Karmic Koala is the codename for Ubuntu 9.10, due October 29th, 2009 - Karmic is still NOT stable and MAY break - Discussion and support in #ubuntu+1 - Await the release in #ubuntu-release-party
<Pici> argh, stupid topic lengths
<bazhang> heh
<bazhang> more mysterious that way
<bazhang> hi LjL  :)
<LjL> hi bazhang
<LjL> nothing to report, i just had this in the joined list from yesterday
<DJones> Looks like there might be a troll in #ubuntu Trolly123 sounds like the Der_Trolly that was around last week
<Pici> It sure makes finding the trolls easier when they label themselves like that.
<Pici> DJones: Thanks for the heads up though, as always :)
<ubottu> FloodBot3 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit)
<ubottu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit)
<Pici> ugh
<Pici> banlist is full
<Pici> !ops | Please clean out your old bans
<ubottu> Please clean out your old bans: Help! Channel emergency! (ONLY use this trigger in emergencies) -  elky,  imbrandon, DBO, gnomefreak, Hobbsee, rob, Madpilot, CarlK, crimsun, ajmitch, tritium, Nalioth, thoreauputic, apokryphos, tonyyarusso,  PriceChild, Amaranth, jrib, jenda, nixternal, Myrtti, mneptok, Pici, Jack_Sparrow, nickrud, jpds, bazhang, jussi01, Flannel or ikonia!
<ubottu> Pici called the ops in #ubuntu-ops (Please clean out your old bans)
<Amaranth> afaik I don't have any
<Amaranth> If I do feel free to clear them all out
<Pici> Amaranth: Then disregard ;)
 * Amaranth stabs mIRC
<Amaranth> Why make it a one-liner to automatically flood the channel?
 * Mamarok wonders why she is not in that list
<jussi01> Mamarok: are you an op in #ubuntu ;)
<Mamarok> no, I avoid that channel :)
<Mamarok> soince I can't help with Gnome, never use it
<Mamarok> since*
<Tm_T> Mamarok: I'm there, isn't that reason enough?
<jussi01> well that would be why you arent on the list then...
<Mamarok> got that
<Mamarok> Tm_T: I see you elsewhere :)
<Tm_T> noooooooo
 * Tm_T hides
<Mamarok> you can't hide long :)
<Tm_T> I have plenty of mushrooms growing int this cave
<jussi01> Amaranth: why use mirc? :P
<Amaranth> jussi01: I'm not using it, some of our trolls are
<Mamarok> Tm_T: I can smell you, then :)
<Tm_T> Mamarok: true that, beautiful odour of me
 * Mamarok was talking about the mushrooms
<Pici> #ubuntu already getting busy
<tonyyarusso> lil bit
<Pici> Amaranth: ping.  Can you comment on emerald if you haev a moment?
<Amaranth> eh?
<Amaranth> If it breaks you get to keep both pieces
<Pici> Amaranth: I'm just curious why its in the repositories if its broken
<tonyyarusso> We've been over this - don't make me laugh in class!
<Pici> tonyyarusso: :P
<Amaranth> Pici: Broken how? It works (at least enough to run it with the stock theme) for me
<Pici> !emerad
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about emerad
<Pici> !emerald
<ubottu> emerald is an obsolete window decorator for compiz. It's unsupported and unmaintained, making issues with it very hard to diagnose and fix. There are no known, supported alternatives.
<Amaranth> But it is pretty much unsupported
<Amaranth> Look at the last sentence
<Tm_T> known alternatives, but they are not mentioned there, sillyness
<Pici> Amaranth: Oh, I see it, just wanted to check with you again.  Some guy in +1 just getting annoying with the emerald questions.
<Amaranth> Tm_T: There are no alternatives to the features emerald provides
<Tm_T> oh, I misread it
 * Tm_T hides
<Pici> Amaranth: I didn't mean to ping you to have you address it in +1. Just wanted to check with a dev with the emerald status.
<Amaranth> eh, this works too :)
<ubottu> In #ubuntu, x_ said: !jack is here
<ubottu> grawity called the ops in #ubuntu (x_)
<Tm_T> jpds: all yours
<jpds> He was connection from Clueless and Witless.
<jpds> connecting*
<tonyyarusso> @login
<ubottu> The operation succeeded.
<tonyyarusso> no, isitout is <reply> No! Its not out yet! Await the release in #ubuntu-release-party, and be sure to read channel /topic!
<jussi01> !isitout
<ubottu> No! Its not out yet!
<tonyyarusso> what the hey
<jussi01> tonyyarusso: you forgot the !
<tonyyarusso> no, !isitout is <reply> No! Its not out yet! Await the release in #ubuntu-release-party, and be sure to read channel /topic!
<Tm_T> heh
<jussi01> sigh
<Tm_T> tonyyarusso: you mean !no, ...
<jussi01> tonyyarusso: ! makes the bot listen to you...
<tonyyarusso> oh'
<tonyyarusso> durrrrrrr
<Tm_T> jussi01: beat me to it
<tonyyarusso> actually, I apparently want a chan-specific anyway
<Tm_T> why?
<jussi01> tonyyarusso: why chan specific?
<jussi01> hehe
<tonyyarusso> because for some reason the existing one is?
<tonyyarusso> !isitout-#ubuntu
<ubottu> No! Its not out yet! Await the release in #ubuntu-release-party
<tonyyarusso> Seems backwards though
<tonyyarusso> -r-p should have the specific one.
<jussi01> !forget isitout-#ubuntu
<ubottu> I'll forget that, jussi01
<jussi01> sorted :)
<tonyyarusso> !isitout is <reply> No! Its not out yet! Await the release in #ubuntu-release-party, and be sure to read channel /topic!
<ubottu> But isitout already means something else!
<tonyyarusso> !no, isitout is <reply> No! Its not out yet! Await the release in #ubuntu-release-party, and be sure to read channel /topic!
<ubottu> I'll remember that tonyyarusso
<jussi01> :)
<tonyyarusso> !isitout-#ubuntu-release-party is <reply> No!  It's not out yet!  Every time you ask, Mark Shuttleworth delays the release another 15 minutes.
<ubottu> I'll remember that, tonyyarusso
<tonyyarusso> !no, isitout is <reply> No! It's not out yet! Await the release in #ubuntu-release-party, and be sure to read channel /topic!
<ubottu> I'll remember that tonyyarusso
<tonyyarusso> punctuation good
<jussi01> Peoples, if you have bugs/features you want to see in the bot, please make sure they are on LP! We plan to have a look at them while at UDS.
 * niko commited some minutes ago http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-fr/ubuntu-bots/ubotufr/revision/40/ChannelManager/plugin.py#ChannelManager/plugin.py 
<jussi01> niko: what does that do?
<jussi01> niko: but also, bugs are needed
<jpds> jussi01: 1) Use PostgreSQL for the database backend.
<niko> bantracker, antiflood,channel notice,mass highlight,anti repeat, ban tracker, regexp support @ any action
<niko> and stuff like that
<jussi01> oh, you guys have the bot there as a floodbot etc
<jussi01> jpds: on lp please!!!
<niko> jussi01: yes uBOTu-fr runs for years in #ubuntu-fr* and #ubuntu-es
<niko> the plugin is used in others channels too
<ikonia> hows the ban list ?
<Tm_T> what is this nazi talk in offtopic ?
<ikonia> not noticed
<Tm_T> well I did, it's on my hilight list
<Tm_T> Atomicspark and this X8something (:
 * ikonia follows now
<ikonia> yes, just saw atomicspark
<ubottu> In ubottu, randomaction said: !sync is import of a package from Debian without modification. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess
<ikonia> council members - please be aware of bucky's comments as no doubt he's now appealing in #ubuntu-irc-council
<ikonia> bucky now hitting other channels with rude behaviour
<ikonia> that's #ubuntu / #ubuntu-offtopic / #ubuntu+1 now
<ikonia> now trolling -release party
<ikonia> can someone wearing a members cloak deal with it ?
<ikonia> Tm_T: you're cloaked and active
<ikonia> I suggest someone also be ready in #ubuntu-devel
<nhandler> ikonia: He looks fine in -release-party right now. If he gets out of hand, feel free to ping me
<ikonia> nhandler: his comment of calling me a shit head was not fine
<ikonia> his trolling of all #ubuntu channels is not acceptable
<Tm_T> ikonia: sorry I'm bit distracted here
<nhandler> I can talk to him ikonia, but besides the one comment in -release-party, he hasn't done much there. I'm not going to ban him from that channel simply for what he did in the other channels. I'll leave that up to either the IRC Council or a member of the OPs team
<ikonia> it's fine he's just hit #ubuntu-uk
<ikonia> he's doing it on purpose - feel free to talk to him
<nhandler> I'll send him a PM
<ikonia> he didn't respond when I tried to explain to him, so good luck
<nhandler> ikonia: Do you have the IRC logs from -offtopic ? It appears I am not in there
<ikonia> sur
<ikonia> sure
<ikonia> http://pastebin.com/m55de5f10
<ikonia> that's what got him banned
<ikonia> there was a warning about the topic before that - but just general to the channel
<ikonia> can someone with a member cloak please remove bucky from -release-party, I 'm tired of being abused
<ikonia> he's gone
<Tm_T> sorry I didn't realise he's there too
<ikonia> all fine
<Seeker`> can someone have a look at luigired in #u?
<Seeker`> too late
#ubuntu-ops 2009-10-29
<tonyyarusso> Speaking of the release manager (-r-p convo), do we have them lined up to announce in there when appropriate?
<tonyyarusso> nalioth: I could be useful to have ubot3 syncing the factoids db more often today since it's the one in #u-r-p, if that's possible.
<nalioth> tonyyarusso: more often than every hour?
<tonyyarusso> nalioth: is it really that much?  Seemed like it wasn't grabbing something, but I guess I haven't checked systematically...
<tonyyarusso> (memory thought it was once a day anyway, so bleh)
<nalioth> :)
<nalioth> it syncs to the main db every 59 minutes
<tonyyarusso> okie dokie - nvm me then
<Flannel> u-r-p isn't +c do we care?
<Pici> Not until people start abusing it
<Pici> It also was -t earlier.
<Pici> and +s
<Flannel> That channel is mos eisley anyway.  The current conversation there makes me question whether we should still entertain it.
<Flannel> er, not current, but the past few hours
<Pici> It'll be worse later
<Amaranth> dang ohmy
<Amaranth> I really want to tell -release-party I've got a bottle of jack and my finger on the ban button ;)
<Flannel> Amaranth: eh?
<Amaranth> Flannel: It's a party :)
<Pici> Amaranth: hehe
<Flannel> Amaranth: So go ahead :)
<Flannel> I've tried to keep a "it's a party, let things slide" attitude, but a couple of people are close to being banned regardless.
<Pici> agreed
<Amaranth> Flannel: The problem is telling the difference between "it's a party, I'm having fun" and "I'm screwing with all of you"
<Flannel> Amaranth: right.
<Amaranth> Like the guy seemingly lifted right out of 4chan
<Flannel> Mhmm.
<Amaranth> @login
<ubottu> The operation succeeded.
<ubot3> In #ubuntu-release-party, Inphoar said: ubot3 is still here, and when PartyBot1 is gone, there's no telling what he'll do.
<Amaranth> !areyousure-#ubuntu-release-party is <reply>Yes, I'm sure.
<ubottu> I'll remember that, Amaranth
<Amaranth> oh, wait, ubot3
<Amaranth> dang
<Flannel> It'll sync hourly
<Flannel> Howdy h00k, how can we help you today?
<h00k> hello Flannel!
<h00k> I was wondering the proper steps to consider before asking to voulenteer for the job of helping out as an op.
<h00k> *volunteer
<Amaranth> ha, ajmitch is going to ban me
<h00k> orly, this I'd like to see.
<Amaranth> Think we should just stay +o? Cuts down on the traffic with the +o/-o and will hopefully make people less crazy
<h00k> Flannel: I also understand that you guys are busy everywhere
<h00k> s/guys/guys-and-gals
<Pici> h00k: At this time we're not accepting volunteer operators. Normally when we have the need for more we look to the contributing members of our community.
<Flannel> h00k: Someone who knows the answer will be able to answer you.
<h00k> Pici: okay, thanks for the info!
<Flannel> Maybe we need to come up with activities and games to play for -release-party.  It works for eight year olds...
<Pici> good idea
<Pici> Thanks for volunteering to come up with ideas too
<Flannel> :P
<Amaranth> if the bot is going to be muting people and setting +z I'm going to stay +o while I'm around
<ubot3> In #ubuntu-release-party, rickspencer3 said: ubot3, when is supposed to be out?
<tonyyarusso> Flannel: that is actually a good idea
<Pici> jono... hah
<Flannel> tonyyarusso: Yeah.  I'm just not sure what sort of fun activities we could do.
<Flannel> Having a bunch of competitions or something would certainly keep people busy, and probably be fun.
<Pici> I have a very very large trivia file if someone has a working bot (the questions are hard though)
<krummlauf> hi
<Flannel> Howdy krummlauf, how can we help you today?
<ubottu> PartyBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (clone flood)
<ubottu> PartyBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit)
<Amaranth> This is getting insane way too quickly
<Pici> Amaranth: That was the guy who kept asking about the pirate bay link
<Amaranth> oh, ok then
<niko> oh, Scientologist in #ubuntu-release-party
<niko> do you needs help in #ubuntu-release-party ?
<nalioth> niko: you are on the access list (twice)
<ubottu> PartyBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit)
<Pici> the partybot is attracting the trolls
<ubottu> LjL called the ops in #ubuntu ()
<Pici> !away > EsmD
<MenZa> krummlauf: Can we help you?
 * MenZa jabs krummlauf with a pointy stick.
<krummlauf> o sorry
<krummlauf> i got banned or somethin
<krummlauf> for sayin HAIL SATAN on accident
<krummlauf> can i go back to the channel
<krummlauf> i think ikonia did it or somethin
<krummlauf> it was on mistake i dont mean bad
<tonyyarusso> nalioth: Does ubot3 have a different way of handling overlap with !info than ubottu?
<ubot3> In #ubuntu-release-party, d1b said: ubot3: pizza_party is http://www.beigerecords.com/cory/Things_I_Made/PizzaParty
<krummlauf> i didnt mean bad
<krummlauf> am i banished forever to this realm of nod?
<Dasda> hey anyone here? i need to test if the dcc exploit wont work on me
<Flannel> Dasda: You've passed/been removed from the looks of things
<Dasda> ok
<Dasda> thanks
<Flannel> Hmm, or maybe not.
<Flannel> Oooh
<Dasda> my router doesn't have new firmware
<Dasda> im on port 8001
<Dasda> is there a way i could do this for other servers too? i have always had this problem and never known what caused it
<Dasda> mostly efnet
<Flannel> Dasda: Try asking for a test again in -read-topic
<Flannel> Dasda: If they support a non-6667 port, use that
<Dasda> ok, nothing else I can do though other than get a new router then right?
<Dasda> the test still doesn't work
<Flannel> Assuming its your router and you can't upgrade to firmware that isn't vulnerable, yeah.
<Dasda> "<@FloodBotK1> Dasda: Sorry, but I am unable to test you (are you using your usual nickname?). Please contact the operators (type Â« /topic Â» to find out how)."
<Flannel> Dasda: right, ignore that
<Flannel> You're good it looks like
<Dasda> ok
<Dasda> cool
<Dasda> i guess ill follow rules and leave since my issue has been dealt with
<Dasda> thanks alot
<Flannel> Dasda: Although, changing your user from "Suck a dick" might be nice too.
<Dasda> lol
<Dasda> ok
<Dasda> sure
<Dasda> give me sec
<Dasda> good now? flannel?
<Flannel> Dasda: Aye.  I was just mentioning it offhand anyway
<Dasda> yeah you aren't first though, i was always hesitant because it required me to disconnect and connect again right at the moment then I always forgot later on
<Dasda> thanks alot for the info, its really nice that ubuntu users help in everything
<Flannel> Dasda: No problem
<Dasda> take care
<Flannel> You too
<tonyyarusso> I wonder why they don't password-protect the bits of the server used for staging - I'm sure the mirroring stuff knows how to do basic auth
<Amaranth> afaik it's just rsync
<nhandler> tonyyarusso: There isn't a need to, there is nothing that needs to be kept private
<tonyyarusso> nhandler: I meant for preventing people from loading down the servers while they're trying to sync by grabbing things right now
<tonyyarusso> nhandler: btw while you're here - who's in charge of the .ics for Open Week?  It doesn't seem right.  (Or I'm just crazy)
<nhandler> tonyyarusso: I commented on that a day or so ago. I'll poke amber and jorge again about it tomorrow (they are handling all of the Open Week stuff)
<tonyyarusso> So it's not just me?  Yay
<krummlauf> i need help
<krummlauf> i aint bad
<krummlauf> they say im bad but i know i aint
<krummlauf> im good
<Flannel> !away > kisuke
<Flannel> krummlauf: Hi.  I think you're waiting on ikonia?
<nalioth> krummlauf: is there any further we can help you with?
<ubottu> FloodBot2 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (clone flood)
<Flannel> Odd.
<Flannel> #ubuntu-release-fiesta looks non-malicious
<tonyyarusso> fiesta?
<tonyyarusso> Is it Spanish?
<Flannel> Yeah.
<Flannel> It's the clone flood that was just reported
<Flannel> advertisement, that is.
<Flannel> I expected to join and get attacked by ads or something
<vox> what's the deal with "omg its out!!eleven1111" people in #ubuntu? tell them it's not(yet) and if they dont shush, remove them?
<bazhang> judgment call imo
<vox> nod
<bazhang> kewlbns is seriously annoying though
<vox> i wasnt sure if there was an offical stance or not
<Flannel> vox: Yeah.  If they're being disruptive/annoying, warn, then remove, just like always
<Flannel> Although I suppose in this case also advertise #ubuntu-release-party
<vox> nod
<jussi01> Yes, push them to #ubuntu-release-party
<jussi01> If you have to ban, then banforward to release party.
<maco> user "ubuntu" in #kubuntu is PMing me and asking "asl"
<maco> i'm playing dumb and interpreting this as "american sign language"
<ubot3> In ubot3, prateek said: it is out
<ubot3> In ubot3, prateek said: it is dskhfkdfhgfd
<Flannel> !asl | maco
<ubottu> maco: Most of us don't speak American Sign Language, please try english instead. â
<maco> haha
<maco> i do though!
<maco> well i dont speak it. thatd be silly.
<mneptok> thumb down. index raised. half loop. draw across chest. raise pinkie. full loop.
<mneptok> not very efficient as a spoken language.
<Flannel> mneptok: Airplane star thumbs-up mailbox.
<jussi01> !asl | mneptok
<ubottu> mneptok: Most of us don't speak American Sign Language, please try english instead. â
<jussi01> :P
<jussi01> whats the small character at the end of that factoid I wonder...
<maco> peace sign
<maco> or the letter V
<maco> or the number 2
<topyli> or the same factoid in braille
 * jussi01 curses maco's slow connection :P
<maco> thats the school  server!
<maco> also youre not in pm anymore
<jussi01> hehe
<tonyyarusso> Anyone know if this has come up before?  < alabd> Is it against to ubuntu mailing list license if someone allows that his/her notes/answers be copied into a non-free book ?
<tonyyarusso> We said IRC logs were public domain, right?
<jussi01> tonyyarusso: hrm, interesting questions. Im pretty sure the answer is yes on the logs, not sure on the ML. dont quote me as Im not certain
<tonyyarusso> I ask again - has the release manager been asked about whether they plan to announce in -r-p again in addition to the normal mailing list?
<dholbach> good morning
<jussi01> hiya daniel
<jussi01> tonyyarusso: who is the release manager?
<tonyyarusso> jussi01: I don't actually know.
<tonyyarusso> I know who it's been a number of times in the past, but hey
<jussi01> dholbach: do you knwo?
<dholbach> slangasek
<dholbach> but there's a bunch of others on the release team
<dholbach> cjwatson, pitti and a few others
<tonyyarusso> righto
<jussi01> right, tonyyarusso, can I delegate this to you to follow up and ask/ffind out?
<tonyyarusso> yeah
<jussi01> thanks a lot
<mneptok> bothering slangasek on release day is a Bad Idea(r)
<tonyyarusso> eh, I already did it once :P
<tonyyarusso> As long as you don't actually expect an answer quickly and aren't annoying he doesn't seem to bite too hard
<jussi01> too hard :D
<dholbach> what do you guys need?
<mneptok> dholbach: donuts and ponies!
<jussi01> dholbach:  [09:38:31] <tonyyarusso> I ask again - has the release manager been asked about whether they plan to announce in -r-p again in addition to the normal mailing list?
<dholbach> just asking in #ubuntu-release might help already
<jussi01> tonyyarusso: ^^
<tonyyarusso> did that - got "uh, probably, but I don't know if anyone's actually asked"
<mneptok> or just refresh http://releases.ubuntu.com/releases/9.10/ every few minutes
<tonyyarusso> !f5 | mneptok :P
<ubottu> mneptok :P: Remember that every time you hit refresh, Canonical is wasting money, bandwidth, and CPU time serving your request instead of doing useful things like uploading the image or paying for ShipIt disks.  Please do so sparingly.
<mneptok> tonyyarusso: i think Canonical would rather we bother the servers than the release manager
<tonyyarusso> mneptok: may be true, hrm
<tonyyarusso> I plan on getting some sleep though between now and then
<jussi01> meh, 30 sec's of slangaseks time vs 1000 refreshes...
<tonyyarusso> He can always ignore me.
 * tonyyarusso tries super-quick
<mneptok> dholbach: does Matt Nuzum idle on Freenode? he's got to be one of the first to know, and less likely to be as busy as Steve on release day.
<dholbach> #ubuntu-website
<mneptok> tonyyarusso: you might want to ask newz2000 in -website to let you know.
<mneptok> tonyyarusso: he'll have slightly more free mental bandwidth and will be among the forst to know.
<mneptok> *first
<tonyyarusso> 'k
<mneptok> tell him that by keeping you informed it will annoy me greatly. he'll tell you within microseconds of release. ;)
<Flannel> aww, mneptok's making friends.
<tonyyarusso> Got a confirmation from slangasek that the announcement will be taken care of.
<tonyyarusso> and with that, I'm going to try to catch a few winks.
<jussi01> tonyyarusso: goodnight
 * jussi01 giggles at slangasek in -r-p
<mneptok> i'd /join -r-p, but there's a loaded shotgun in our house
<topyli> -rp must be the worst irc channel i have ever visited
<jussi01> topyli: its rather silly, but it serves a purpose.
<ubot3> In #ubuntu-release-party, prateek said: !it is out
<topyli> jussi01, sure. two in fact: it reduces noise elsewhere, and it also *is* a celebration of sorts
<ziroday> Hi, barneystinson bergjoha and possibly some others appear to be the same person up to no good
<ziroday> (and speaking german after being directed to #ubuntu-de)
<ziroday> oops nevermind, thanks Flannel
<ikonia> is it out yet :)
<Flannel>  /abr ikonia
<Flannel> oh, er,
<ikonia> ha ha
<ikonia> I fail to see how so many people are incable of checking a website, yet think they can use a new operating system
<Flannel> ikonia: Or even the topic
<ikonia> how did rww just op in release part without a members cloak
<Flannel> ikonia: he didn't.  He /part requested by rww: yadda yadda
<ikonia> ahhhh
<ikonia> I'm being dumb now
<Flannel> ikonia: He's a tricky fellow.
<ikonia> no, I'm just thick
<Flannel> ikonia: Attack?
<Flannel> Oh,facebook it seems
<ubottu> PartyBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join)
<ikonia> looking too
<Flannel> Apparently jono's facebook link includes that nick as a suggestion or something
<ikonia> I'm getting very tired about indus
<Flannel> That'll be fun for the next few hours
<ikonia> I think it's a stupid thing to do to be honest
<Flannel> blah
<ikonia> ok - I'm suggesting +b on partyanimal
<ikonia> it's getting stupid
<Flannel> I'd second that
<ikonia> I'll get jono in here
<ikonia> he's "sanctioned" it
<Flannel> He's caused stupidity
<ikonia> I %100 concur
<Flannel> We should stop it, and talk to him while it's +b so the channel can be usable
<ikonia> I can't op in ther
<ikonia> there
<ikonia> or I would
<ikonia> wgrant seems keen to let it continue - I'll ask him to join too
<Flannel> ikonia: You can't?  Oh, I will
<ikonia> not wearing a member cloak
<Flannel> +b partyanimal*!*@* right?
<ikonia> correct
<ikonia> hey wgrant
<wgrant> ikonia: Hi there.
<ikonia> thanks for joining, I've also sent a message for jono too
<wgrant> Quieting down a bit now, fortunately.
<ikonia> wgrant: only because flannel +b it
<ikonia> wanted to have a chat about it if possible
<ikonia> need to chat quick as +b on partyanimal* is not good if jono is inviting
<ikonia> anything we can do to control this better as it's hitting the channel stupid
<ikonia> any thoughts ?
<wgrant> No idea.
<ikonia> ahhh 9.10 just been delayed indefinatly
<wgrant> 9.04, actually!
<wgrant> Somebody should fix that.
<ikonia> ok - well jono's not responding to pm or not joining so I don't know if we can get him to do something with the facebook page
<ikonia> Flannel: want to try -b now see if it's "ok" ?
<Flannel> mrhgmghmmm
<Flannel> Alright
<ikonia> just thinking out loud
<ikonia> don't have to
<ubottu> PartyBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join)
<wgrant> Hrm.
<wgrant> Ahaha.
<wgrant> cjwatson trying to escape.
<Flannel> I'm thinking qwebirc is sort of borderline too.  Just the nick.
<ikonia> ok that didn't work
<ikonia> any thoughts ?
<ikonia> I can't get jono to respond
<ikonia> not sure how to progress ?
<Flannel> We really need people to have their own nicks, or else it becomes impossible to keep track
<wgrant> Right.
<Flannel> He just needs to ask people to come up with nicks isntead of giving the defaults/etc
<ikonia> plus the freenode webchat links are nuts
<wgrant> I don't know how immutable that post is.
<ikonia> in honesty I don't see the need for the post
<wgrant> Maybe if we fill jono's screen up with flashing PMs, he will realise.
<ikonia> ha ha ha
<wgrant> Twitter too.
<wgrant> Oh. god.
<ikonia> JONO !!!!!!
<ikonia> this seems very ill thought out
<ikonia> someone may want to update the -r-p topic to state it's delayed for the very few who do read the topic
<Flannel> good god.  Some people just don't think.
<wgrant> ikonia: ... it's not delayed.
<ikonia> wgrant: really ?? party bot just announced it
<wgrant> Ha ha ha.
<ikonia> oh it was jaunty
<ikonia> sorry
<ikonia> now I've clicked what you said earlier
<ikonia> Flannel / wgrant until jono responds I suggest we leave +b in place - thoughts ?
<Flannel> ikonia: I concur.  And likely afterwards too.
<wgrant> ikonia: Agreed.
<wgrant> But this must be discussed with jono.
<ikonia> I know it's not really the right thing to do placing +b while jono's inviting mass joins, but I can't think of a better thing to do
<ikonia> (channel is logged so trying to explain actions)
<Tm_T> ok, that channel is nuts
<ubottu> PartyBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join)
<Flannel> "must" is strong
<Flannel> but yeah, we do what we have to do to make it usable.
<Flannel> for some values of usable.
<ikonia> as I said I'm open to suggestions
<wgrant> The Twitter link appears to not have a nick set, which is good.
<Flannel> ikonia: No, I think this is really the only thing we can do.
<Flannel> We could forward unregged too I guess
<ikonia> well that won't be a problem if twitter doesn't have  nick set as we can't +b every nick
<Flannel> but that seems too extreme
<ikonia> Flannel: agreed at this time
<Flannel> It'd be nice if we could get partybot to ignore mass join (or set it's limit higher) too
<ikonia> I suspect there will be ircc/cc fall out of the fact that we've just banned jono's invitations
<ikonia> I'm going to inform the council channel that we've done than so they know as they are going to get hit with this no doubt
<Flannel> ikonia: I'm not so sure
<Flannel> ikonia: I don't think its going to be as big of an issue as we're worried it'll be.  Unless there's history I'm not aware of
<ubottu> PartyBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join)
<Flannel> Without the bans, its totally unusable, with the bans, it's more usable.  Who cares  if they can join a channel where they only see scrolling?
<jono> howdy
<ubottu> FloodBot3 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join)
<eviljussi01> hiya jono
<jono> hey eviljussi01
<eviljussi01> I just got bck from lunch, and seems omethings up...
<jono> what?
<eviljussi01> no, idea, seems a lot of backlog here
<eviljussi01> Flannel: ikonia: fill me in?
<Flannel> ikonia: ping you away from your email
<ikonia> yes
<ikonia> back
 * Tm_T pours gasoline into eviljussi01 
<Tm_T> filled!
<eviljussi01> oops
<eviljussi01> that wasnt supposed to work...
<wgrant> Evil indeed.
<ikonia> jono: thanks for joining we put +b on partyanimals* on #ubuntu-release-party to try to get some form of use out of the channel
<ikonia> the invite you sent out was causing the channel to become more of a mess than it was already in,
<jono> ikonia, really?
<ikonia> yes
<ikonia> wanted to chat to you to see if there was any better way to do this
<Tm_T> a
<ikonia> mass join of many partyanimal* nicks wasn't good
<jono> ikonia, well, a bunch of people joined at the same time
<ikonia> yes, and kept joining until we put the +b on
<jono> and now I have posted an url where people can pick their own nick
<ikonia> ahhh so you've updated the facebook page (I know you did on twitter)
<jono> I couldnt update the FB, will post another message to correct
<Tm_T> eviljussi01: I'll forgive thise time
<ikonia> that would be cool and very helpful
<ikonia> I guess give it a few minutes after that post and remove the +b ?
<jono> ikonia, thanks!
<jono> ikonia, good idea :)
<jono> sorry folks
<jono> my bad
<ikonia> thanks jono
<ikonia> give us a nudge when the new pages is up
<Flannel> ikonia: I don't think we ened to remove the +bs
<ikonia> Flannel: ok - I guess if no-one is using the nick any more it won't hurt to leave it for a while at least
<Flannel> ikonia: People who don't get the update ... should read the update.  People who don't pick a nick (qwebirc) are still banned until they pick one
<ikonia> I can see your logic
<jono> ikonia, done
<ikonia> jono: are you ok with that ?
<jono> whatever you feel is best :)
<Flannel> We're still going to have a hell of a time policing.  Already getting abuse, and with the FB out of comission, we're going to have to manually police flood too.
<ikonia> ok, great
<jono> :)
<ikonia> Flannel: it's best efforts I guess, it is release-party after all
<Flannel> ikonia: It'd be nice to get rid of the emergency mode on PartyBot though
<ikonia> ha ha, yes
<ikonia> I can't see a way around that
<Flannel> +b on /whatever/freenode/whatever/asdlkfja;sdkfj;sdf is a proper ban? or do we ban hash@*?
<ikonia> I guess all the web clients are jono's invite guys
<wgrant> Is emergency mode the +rR?
<Flannel> wgrant: That's whats going on there, yeah.
<Flannel> wgrant: and then it won't +zb flooders (but does -zb them after they're finished)
<ubottu> PartyBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join)
<jono> ikonia, yeah they are web people
<wgrant> Flannel: Ah, I see.
<jono> don't ban that host
<ubottu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join)
<ikonia> jono: god no
<ubottu> FloodBot2 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join)
<jono> :)
<Flannel> Is it the ident or the last bit of the hostname that's bannable?
<ikonia> hostname
<ikonia> I believe
<ikonia> where is nalioth when you need him, or Pricey
<Flannel> Hellow's just banning like there's no tomorrow.
<ikonia> yes
<ikonia> I'm about to pm him as he's just banned a whole client of ichat
<Flannel> hah
<Flannel> I didn't ban ichat because I didn't think he needed to be banned
<ikonia> ichat is also an ident of a client as I recall
<Flannel> As much as I appreciate the cleanup crew... discretion is good :)
<ikonia> the default ident I mean
<Flannel> Aye.  Know what you mean
<ubottu> PartyBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join)
<ikonia> no kidding partybot1
<Flannel> is Hellow an op anywhere else?
<ikonia> don't think so, but don't know
<Flannel> or is this is his first time?  He seems way over eager
<ikonia> not seen him active in any of the channels he's in
<Flannel> Sigh
<Flannel> now I'm stuck policing his bans as well as everyone else
<ikonia> release-party just gets worse each year
<Flannel> 03:42 <Hellow> Noes, you too away my banhammer!
<Flannel> I told him he can't ban anymore, only kick/remove.
<bazhang> heh
 * ikonia is dissapointed in zetheroo1
<Flannel> blah
<Flannel> nimp crap
<ikonia> Flannel: you're fulltime on -r-p enjoy :)
<Flannel> ikonia: Eh?
<Flannel> it's 345 in the morning
<Flannel> I was just stretching the gap in the rest of you
<ikonia> to late, you've opped, you're resonsible now ;)
<ikonia> I saw it, I saw it, it's all you
<Flannel> I opped so all this moderation stuff would be one line instead of three
<Flannel> When you op for that reason, you *know* something is wrong
<ikonia> I'm just kidding you
<ikonia> it's a bomb in there
<ubottu> PartyBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join)
<eviljussi01> hrr..
<Flannel> Can someone find the pattern in asdasd and altec?
<wgrant> Uhoh.
<ikonia> ahhh more hands
<Flannel> optuscom.au.sometign
<ikonia> Flannel: I'm working on him
<Flannel> Thanks
<ikonia> Flannel: ident seems the same
<ikonia> sdfgasd
<ikonia> for asdasd
<Flannel> Also, for Lucid if we want to omit -release-party, I'm all for it.
<wgrant> Then it'll just go to #ubuntu...
<ikonia> great, now emma is in
<Flannel> She must've woken up.  She was on earlier too
<bazhang> yeah protesting
<wgrant> Of course.
<ikonia> it's fine - if she continues she's gone
<ikonia> Flannel: yup, asdasd's ident stays the same
<Flannel> er, can you craft the banmask for me?
<Flannel> or, wait
<ikonia> sure
<Flannel> sdfgasd!*@*?
<ikonia> other way around
<ikonia> *!sdfgasd@*
<ikonia> n=sdfgasd
<Flannel> *!n=sdfgasd@*?
<ikonia> there is as way to do ?=sdfgasd but I can't remember the format
<ubottu> PartyBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join)
<ikonia> eviljussi01: is that right ?
<wgrant> Now the Canonicalers roll in...
<ikonia> Flannel: yes, that works
<ubottu> FloodBot3 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join)
<ubottu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join)
<ikonia> now people are making up new channels
<wgrant> They have been for hours.
<ubottu> FloodBot2 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join)
<ikonia> wgrant: ok - then someone needs to do something about that channel then
<wgrant> ikonia: It has been a couple of different channels.
<wgrant> I presume they didn't go anywhere.
<ikonia> no - they are real
<wgrant> Damn :(
<ikonia> hello dotwaffle
<dotwaffle> Hi there, can someone please confirm ikonia is a registered voice for the Ubuntu IRC channels - I've been asked to close a channel.
<Flannel> dotwaffle: Yes.
<dotwaffle> Thanks.
<gord>  /whois dotwaffle
<gord> oop
<ikonia> ha ha
<bazhang>  #club-release ?
<gord> i was jsut being nosey ;)
<ikonia> bazhang: don't care about that one
<Flannel> Hmm, maybe mute Partybot in -monitor?
<Flannel> I don't care how many freenode sessions we have connected, frankly.
<ikonia> emma is getting annoying spouting conspiricy theorys about the channel now
<ikonia> Flannel: sounds acceptable
<Flannel> ikonia: If only I could
<ikonia> rats
<ikonia> hello TO3000
<TO3000> can someone please unblock me from #ubuntu-release-party
<ikonia> TO3000: why where you banned ?
<TO3000> i posted he out put of a cowsay command and i was blocked for fluding
<ikonia> TO3000: ok - why did you do that ?
<TO3000> i tought it would be cool
<TO3000> i wont do it agein
<ikonia> did you read the topic about not flooding the channel ?
<Flannel> ikonia: Now you can fiddle too
 * Flannel hides
<ikonia> damn you
<ubottu> PartyBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join)
<ikonia> TO3000: hello again
<TO3000> im sory
<ikonia> no problem
<TO3000> so could you unblock me
<ikonia> TO3000: so if the ban is removed you'll read the /topic in the channel and follow it /
<ikonia> ?
<TO3000> yes
<ikonia> dotwaffel was really helpful and nice
<ikonia> TO3000: one moment please
<Flannel> ikonia: got it
<ikonia> Flannel: thanks !
<Flannel> TO3000: Alright, go ahead and rejoin
<TO3000> thk you soomuch
<Flannel> TO3000: If there's nothing else we can help you with tonight, please /part.  Thanks
<TO3000> you are very nice people
<Flannel> I can't believe I just recommended #ubuntu as a low-traffic channel
<ikonia> ha ha
<Flannel> My last ban should snag that guy that keeps joining/posting/leaving (was bae9 apparently)
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<wgrant> Flannel: That didn't work?
<wgrant> (bae9 returned)
<bazhang> he just joined spammed -r-p and quit
<Flannel> n= vs i=
<Flannel> interesting
<ikonia> Flannel: ?= should work
<Flannel> Or *
<ikonia> well....that too
<Flannel> I'm sort of concerned that I can keep up.
<ikonia> ha ha ha
<ikonia> impressive
<ikonia> I must eat
<wgrant> ikonia: It is forbidden.
<wgrant> Flannel: You are gooooood.
<Flannel> wgrant: Eh?
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<wgrant> Flannel: You are incredibly quick at killing them.
<Flannel> Oh.  Ninja ops!
<Mamarok> that u-r-p channel is completely crazy
<ikonia> wgrant: I'm overruling you
<wgrant> ikonia: Damn real ops :(
<bazhang> heh
<Flannel> xukun just advertised -r-p in -r-p
<ikonia> idiot
<wgrant> Smart.
<Flannel> So, at 1000 users, we're +m right? :)
<ikonia> I don't know to be honest
<Mamarok> well, we will see quite soone, the 960 wall just came down
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<Mamarok> -e
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<Tm_T> Flannel: noo, would ruin all the fun
<Flannel> Tm_T: I'm thinking +m for five minutes of silence, to reflect on the past 5 years of Ubuntu.  Where we've been, where we're going...
<bazhang> oof
<Flannel> haha
<ikonia> Flannel: I'd support that !
<Flannel> Sort of like 4'33"
<wgrant> They're getting good this time. Posting preemptively valid links.
<ichat> Flannel  - can you unban me in -  ubuntu-release-party ill be good i - prommise :P it was just a silly link that i expacted no-one would take sirrious
<ikonia> well as the release is 9.10 - lets have 9 minutes 10 seconds of silence
<Flannel> ichat: You posted that it was released, and you were attempting to pretend to be partybot
<ichat> Flannel:  - if i had realy wanted it to look - true i could have done better
<ichat> it was just to be slly - i though it to be obvious
<ikonia> you're manners in #ubuntu are also unacceptable
<ikonia> ichat: the topic is obvious and tells you NOT to do that
<ichat> if i was mistaking im sorry for it
<ikonia> ichat: it explicitly tells you not to do it
<ikonia> to quote
<ikonia> No posting  of links or claiming it is before the announcement
<ubottu> PartyBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (flood)
<bazhang> what the heck
<wgrant> Beautiful, beautiful silence.
<ikonia> Flannel: really ?
<bazhang> partybot opped me?
<ichat> ikiona - there are way more people who are a bit more rude tha i am at time - specially in ubuntu (a help channel for the love .........  i can get quite agitated if people are being ignorant on perpose...    its YOUR rule to not ask in #ubuntu  - and they still do and you wonder why i get a bit  grumpy about it
<ikonia> bazhang: no, I did
<Flannel> ikonia: Why not?
<jono> Flannel, why have you locked it?
<Flannel> sigh
<bazhang> ikonia, okay phew
<jono> please unlock the channel
<ikonia> ichat: that makes no sense, other peoples beahviour is not being discussed here
<ichat> ikonia -  the ban also did not take place in #ubuntu -  so why has it to do with a silly joke in a less sirrous rome   like  #release party  (the word even says it all    PARTY
<ikonia> ichat: you're not banned in #ubuntu
<ikonia> ichat: I'm saying your attitude in #ubuntu is ALSO not acceptable to your behaviour in #ubuntu-release-party
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<ikonia> ichat: the topic in #ubuntu-release-party clearly says don't say it's out when its not, you did that, you also took it futher to pretend to be a party bot and announce it
<ichat> ikonia and i say that it is beside it.. -  ikonia -  maybe you want to mirror me (and filter out -  the times i help poeple in linux irc chans (includng those of ubuntu ... -  i think i helped about  1k  users for every time i told some one too  P...  Of  (for not reading the topic.
<ichat> iknonia the ban whas because if a silly ban in a room called party
<ikonia> ichat: if you help 1 million users that doesn't give you the right to talk to people as you did, nor miss-lead people as to a release being available
<ichat> not in a helpdesk where people are triing to get help .. and others try to be.... less - co-operative
<ikonia> ichat: the room called party also has an explicit line in the topic and multiple warnings in channel NOT to post comments sayg it's out
<ikonia> ichat: bottom line is - you're out of the party for today
<ichat> in that case ikonia - i think youll manage those extra few by yourselfe (if you manage that is
<ikonia> ok
<ikonia> hello genii
<Pici> Weird.  my screen session was down when I logged in.
<Pici> :/
<ikonia> once every 6 months or so mine dies
<Pici> Well, my linode hasn't even been up for 24 hours yet, so....
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<Pici> how long have the bots been doing the mass join thing?
<bazhang> quite some time
<ikonia> since jono invited the world to -rp
<ikonia> when I say the world I mean facebook and twitter which expand beyond the world
<ikonia> interesting how much of an effect it's had
<Pici> I mean for #ubuntu
<Mamarok> yes, some Martians and Moon dewellers are in, too
<ikonia> Pici: oh
<ikonia> not noticed in #ubuntu to be honest
<ikonia> </shame>
<Pici> ikonia: did jussi talk to you about xorred?
<ikonia> yes yes
<ikonia> the ban has been removed
<Pici> the floodbots are going nuts
<wgrant> Yup.
<wgrant> And there's still quite a while to go.
<ikonia> yes, I wonder if -rp is having an effect
<Mamarok> somebody kick that 4r-tech guy, now he is calling names
<Mamarok> thx
<Pici> Mamarok: you have rights there now
<Mamarok> Pici: thx :)
<Pici> Anyone else who needs it let me know.
<ikonia> Pici: can you update me please so I can deop
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<Pici> ikonia: done
<ikonia> ta
<ikonia> perfect
<Pici> vox: ty
<vox> <3
<ikonia> ban list full
<ikonia> !ops | #ubuntu ban list now full
<Pici> this is ridiculous
<Pici> I'm gonna grab some breakfast and think about what to do
<ikonia> I'll do a big clear down now
<ubottu> #ubuntu ban list now full: Help! Channel emergency! (ONLY use this trigger in emergencies) -  elky,  imbrandon, DBO, gnomefreak, Hobbsee, rob, Madpilot, CarlK, crimsun, ajmitch, tritium, Nalioth, thoreauputic, apokryphos, tonyyarusso,  PriceChild, Amaranth, jrib, jenda, nixternal, Myrtti, mneptok, Pici, Jack_Sparrow, nickrud, jpds, bazhang, jussi01, Flannel or ikonia!
<ubottu> ikonia called the ops in #ubuntu-ops (#ubuntu ban list now full)
<ikonia> can someone watch Typhhooooh in -rp and +1 while I tidy ubuntu bans
<ikonia> Typhhooooh is yure
<jussi01> now then, which chans am I missing over here...
<wgrant> Woah, ^mNotIntelligent was convinced?
<ikonia> what's the format of finding floodbot bans ?
<Mamarok> I am off for a few minutes, my kitchen needs me :)
<ikonia> trying to get bullgard back in here to resolve this
<ubottu> In #ubuntu, D3RGPS31 said: ubottu: yes it is :<
<furuno> uh oh sorry :(, I didn't want to support his argumeng (D3)
<ikonia> sorry pici didn't mean to race you
<Pici> ikonia: you got him anyway
<bazhang> partypooper, indus?
<partypooper> yeah
<bazhang> how can we help you
<ikonia> partypooper: what do you want ?
 * Pici wonders why all these people are joining
<partypooper> just wanted to see how you handle stuff here
<om26er> ikonia, i was gone out for 10 min and it was in the clipboard
<raevol> ok if i idle here?
<ikonia> I need to change my kick message
<ikonia> Pici: my fault sorry
<Pici> ikonia: just link to the guidelines page
<ikonia> partypooper: you know you are not meant to be here and you know you know how things work
<partypooper> is it possible to make channel scroll slower?
<ikonia> partypooper/indus - stop trying to bait people
<partypooper> bait?
<partypooper> what
<om26er> ikonia, what about me
<Pici> om26er: Why are you here?
<jussi01> !idle | raevol
<ubottu> raevol: Please keep in mind that this channel is for operator/abuse questions only; we ask you to part when you have no further business here in order to keep track of users with pending inquiries.
<raevol> k thanks
<ikonia> indus: if you don't need operator help please leave the channel
<ikonia> om26er: you where kicked from release party for posting links when you where told not to
<indus> i asked a question but i dont think you read it
<om26er> ikonia, ok
<indus> i need a link to thie irc logs of this channel
<indus> if that s possible
<ikonia> indus: that's not an operator issue
<ikonia> !logs
<ubottu> Official channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ - For LoCo channels, http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/
<indus> ok thanks
<indus> i have a comment though
<Pici> sure
<indus> ikonia's tolerance is/or seems to be much lower than the other ops
<indus> nothing personal
<bazhang> indus, thats just not so.
<bazhang> indus, please dont idle here
<indus> ok then maybe iam wrong
<ikonia> indus: you are just unable to follow the guidelines
<indus> see ya
<bazhang> indus, you are.
<indus> iam?
<indus> for sure?
<bazhang> you are wrong.
<Pici> Its opinion
<ikonia> it's fine
<bazhang> indus, please dont linger.
<indus> bah
<bazhang> bye
<indus> closed room indeed
<om26er> send me back
<ikonia> om26er: please leave the channel
<bazhang> om26er, to where
<om26er> unban?
<wgrant> ikonia: <3 <3 <3
<bazhang> heh
<Pici> guys/gals, I gotta do the work that I'm getting paid to do, so I can't be here all the time, sorry :(
<bazhang> om26er, from which channel
<tonyyarusso> And I'm back
<ikonia> om26er: you're not banned
<om26er> bazhang, ubuntu-release-party
<wgrant> ikonia: Want to unmute?
<bazhang> om26er, reason for ban?
<wgrant> s/mute/moderate/
<ikonia> done
<om26er> bazhang, i posted this ncdn.releases.ubuntu.com/
<bazhang> om26er, and the topic says dont post links.
<om26er> bazhang, yes!
<bazhang> om26er, yet you did so anyway.
<czajkowski> ikonia: just a thought I know many of the females on IRc and even some males don't like the "Hey guys" approach, might be wiser to use a gender neutral greating.  as I beleive many Ubuntu ops even feel this way
<ikonia> czajkowski: I know - it's a bad habbit that I'm trying to break
<ikonia> it's a valid/fair comment
<czajkowski> ok
<tonyyarusso> Yeah - although perhaps a hard one to remember in the midst of insanity.  Would be easier to work on other times...
<bazhang> heh
<ikonia> czajkowski: I've caught myself a few times and stopped it, I apologized to elky earlier it's unintentional but I %100 understand how it can be seen
<tonyyarusso> English is a stupid language.
<om26er> now let me go to the party plz i won't paste again
<ikonia> om26er: leave this channel and join the #ubuntu-release-party channel
<bazhang> corden, how may we help you
<ikonia> bazhang: a consiquence of my bad kick message I feel
<corden> i just read a msg that my ISP was black listed from torrent
<bazhang> corden, it was a joke
<corden> hope so
<ubottu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join)
<wgrant> bazhang: Spads is a Canonical sysadmin; those are rickroll redirects.
<bazhang> wgrant, whoops sorry
<nhandler> lol
<tonyyarusso> Even a joke link causes thousands of simultaneous hits to the server though
<nhandler> And do you guys think it would be beneficial to mention ubuntu-announce@ in the topic?
<ikonia> nhandler: go for it
<nhandler> Ok
<ikonia> I don't think canonical should be posting rickroll links
<nhandler> The /topic has been updated
<tonyyarusso> btw, by my count, #ubuntu has now surpassed Jaunty levels.
<bazhang> wowzors
<jpds> ikonia, bazhang: Dudes, you've clearly never met Spads.
<ikonia> nope never
<Pici> tonyyarusso: yep, it just did
<bazhang> jpds, I just kicked and apologized
<Pici> 09:13:20 >>>> Irssi: New peak in #ubuntu@freenode : 1831
 * jpds shakes head.
<Pici> u-r-p surpassed long ago
<tonyyarusso> Jono was denting to get it over a thousand
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<wgrant> bazhang: rickspencer3 is the Desktop team manager.
<ubottu> PartyBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join)
<bazhang> wgrant, is it out then? he asked if it was and I said its not. dont see the harm in that.
<wgrant> bazhang: Indeed not.
<ikonia> hello JediMaster
<JediMaster> Hey guys, I just got kicked banned from #ubuntu, can anyone tell me why?
<ikonia> JediMaster: looks to be because you posted links to a product not released yet
<tonyyarusso> !links | JediMaster
<ubottu> JediMaster: DON'T POST LINKS!  Karmic isn't out until it's announced, and indicating anything otherwise causes the servers to get more load, thus making the release LATER.  Is that what you want?
<JediMaster> hmm, well very sorry about that, don't want the network flooded, I just presumed that it was ok to copy/paste the link that someone else had pasted 30 sec before
<JediMaster> any chance I could be unbanned and I'll happily not post it again =)
<tonyyarusso> Yeah, as soon as I can collect my sanity enough to copy and paste :S
<JediMaster> =) ta
<tonyyarusso> Should be good to go JediMaster
<seeker^> Is it out yet?
<bazhang> oof
<JediMaster> thanks tonyyarusso, I didn't figure it out until after I pasted the url in and noticed the nocdn
<tonyyarusso> JediMaster: Happens.  You can help us by referring others to !links and #ubuntu-release-party too.
<JediMaster> will do
<JediMaster> btw, just a suggestion, it would make sense to use a .htacces/.htpasswd on the nocdn site to only allow the IP/ranges of the CDN to access the site and password protected for all others
<tonyyarusso> I pondered that earlier too.  But hey, I'm not in charge :P
<tonyyarusso> of that anyway
<Pici> thank goodness
<tonyyarusso> yarrrr!
<seeker^> I have asked several times in the past about why they don't have a more secure distribution method to the servers
<ikonia> Wikidude: you've been told many times to stop telling people it's out
<ikonia> areay: can we help ?
<Wikidude> ikonia , I typed in released , and in the the next line as you could see , I also wrote not yet
<JediMaster> I believe it's called security by obscruity, and it's never a good plan
<Wikidude> JediMaster : lol
<areay> just wanted to watch people get mad about being kicked tbh ikonia ... i'll leave if u want
<ikonia> areay: please yes
<areay> peace
<Wikidude> So am I still blocked
<Wikidude> Probably yes I guess
<ikonia> you're not banned - you've been removed
<ikonia> but as wikidude or your other nick you've been a problem in the channel a few times today
<ikonia> I suggest you think about what and how you're posting
<Wikidude> Cheers , just a little out washed >>> and sorry about it
<ikonia> no problem, thank you
<jussi01> !idle | JediMaster
<ubottu> JediMaster: Please keep in mind that this channel is for operator/abuse questions only; we ask you to part when you have no further business here in order to keep track of users with pending inquiries.
<ubottu> In #ubuntu, calmsiva said: ubottu : in my chat why is your colour changing
<JediMaster> ok ok, I'll bog off, thanks tonyyarusso, and someone really should mention the .htaccess to the sysadmins to block for non cdn server IPs..
<seeker^> I'm so glad I don't have access to a machine that will allow me to op up right now :P
<bazhang> I think dolittle may have been hit by mistake (I got doslinux)
<ikonia> he was, I apologiesd
<ikonia> apologized
<bazhang> ah sorry just saw that
<ikonia> not a problem
 * tonyyarusso hopes they release soon before his head asplodes
<ikonia> I'm tempted to +m again for a short period
<ikonia> it's getting stupid
<seeker^> Yeah, go for a +m
<czajkowski> well it's out in some places.. so you can understand the confusion.
<seeker^> It isn't "out" anywhere yet
<seeker^> Some servers have got copies of an iso
<Pici> Its not out until the fat lady^W release manger says so
<jussi01> hehe
<jussi01> Slangasek has said he will pop a note in -r-p when it comes out, so we will all know...
<jpds> seeker^: s/Some/Most/
<jussi01> oh dear -r-p is crazy
<Mamarok> totally
<wgrant> It was worse earlier.
<tonyyarusso> !ops the -r-p ban list appears to be full!
<ubottu> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<tonyyarusso> !ops | the -r-p ban list appears to be full!
<ubottu> the -r-p ban list appears to be full!: Help! Channel emergency! (ONLY use this trigger in emergencies) -  elky,  imbrandon, DBO, gnomefreak, Hobbsee, rob, Madpilot, CarlK, crimsun, ajmitch, tritium, Nalioth, thoreauputic, apokryphos, tonyyarusso,  PriceChild, Amaranth, jrib, jenda, nixternal, Myrtti, mneptok, Pici, Jack_Sparrow, nickrud, jpds, bazhang, jussi01, Flannel or ikonia!
<ubottu> tonyyarusso called the ops in #ubuntu-ops (the -r-p ban list appears to be full!)
<jrib> heh...
<bazhang> yikes
<jrib> just clear it what's the point
<tonyyarusso> That's probably safe, yes.  Most are very temporary
<jpds>  /msg ChanServ CLEAR #ubuntu-release-party BANS
<jrib> is -r-p +L?
<jpds> No.
<tonyyarusso> Cleared.
<ikonia> that's a cool trick jpds
<jpds> ikonia: I'm full of those.
<ikonia> no doubt
<tonyyarusso> You should see the one with the seal ikonia
<sanketmedhi> tonyyarusso: here
<Mamarok> oh man, what a bunch of silly kids over there
<tonyyarusso> !links | sanketmedhi most likely it was this
<ubottu> sanketmedhi most likely it was this: DON'T POST LINKS!  Karmic isn't out until it's announced, and indicating anything otherwise causes the servers to get more load, thus making the release LATER.  Is that what you want?
<topyli> a finnish news site says 9.10 is out and links to downloads :\
<sanketmedhi> oh ok, sorry, I got the link on a local ubuntu channel, had no idea about this issue
<czajkowski> tonyyarusso: can you see pm please
<tonyyarusso> sanketmedhi: If you can help us by not repeating, you're all set to re-enter.
<JediMaster> quick question, is it ok to link urls on mirrors?
<jpds> No.
<JediMaster> e.g. http://www.mirrorservice.org
<JediMaster> who have 9.10 posted
<ikonia> no
<JediMaster> kk
<sanketmedhi> tonyyarusso: sure, I promise
<tonyyarusso> sanketmedhi: Okay, thanks!
<sanketmedhi> tonyyarusso: same to you
<tonyyarusso> c'mon Steve...put us out of our misery
<ikonia> at jedimaster asked
<bazhang> whoa ubuntu.com has changed
<Pici> looks the same here
<tonyyarusso> bazhang: Changed, reverted, and changed again already
<Pici> http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download is showing 9.10 for me now
<bazhang> weird
<tonyyarusso> Matt has testing to do too you know - it's not magic.
<bazhang> hehe
<bazhang> seems like there is an arthur c clarke quote applicable about this
<jpds> 14:25:28 < slangasek> is something happening today?
<Pici> hah
<bazhang> hehe
<jpds> Amnesia!
<nalioth> not everyone plans their religious holidays around Ubuntu release day
<Pici> I should have scheduled a day off for today
<tritium> #ubuntu-release-party is rather dizzying
<jpds> wgrant: /remove is the way to go.
<ikonia> thank god
<ikonia> it's released
<ikonia> so much for the announcment
<wgrant> Wait.
<wgrant> What?
<wgrant> Why did the topic declare it?
<areay> unban me damnit it was out when i said "it's out"
<ikonia> ubuntu.com just changed the banner to 9.10
<ikonia> areay: calm down
<wgrant> That's got little to do with anything.
<areay> lol
<areay> im kidding
<areay> woohoo!
<bazhang> the link in -r-p says out and not out :)
<ikonia> I'll change the topic
<wgrant> I wish leftyfb hadn't done that.
<Pici> is it not out?
<wgrant> No.
<Pici> ugh
<bazhang> yikes
<Pici> I changed the ubuntu topic because I saw that in -r-p
<ikonia> it is out
<nalioth> there are dozens of news agencies saying otherwise
<ubot3> In #ubuntu-release-party, d1b said: ubot3: isitout is yes it is
<bazhang> good luck putting that genie back in
<ikonia> ubuntu.com says it is ?
<bazhang> does here
<Pici> can someone update !torrents
<Pici> I need to gte back to work
<ikonia> wgrant: someones been sloppy
<ikonia> Pici: sure
<ikonia> !torrents
<ubottu> Jaunty can be torrented from http://hr.releases.ubuntu.com/9.04/ubuntu-9.04-desktop-i386.iso.torrent or http://se.releases.ubuntu.com/9.04/ubuntu-9.04-server-amd64.iso.torrent depending on your architecture. Torrents for other Ubuntu flavours can be found at: http://it.releases.ubuntu.com/ (CD) or http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases (DVD).
<wgrant> #-r-p has always declared the release only once slangasek does.
<wgrant> But too late now.
<ikonia> agreed
<wgrant> Do we want to kill ubot3?
<ikonia> yes
<ikonia> it's just noise in there
<ikonia> in my opinion
<seeker^> What happened?
<wgrant> The release was inappropriately declared in #u-r-p, before the announcement.
<wgrant> 'declared' meaning the topic was changed.
<Pici> We should lock down who has ops there for the next release.
<Mamarok> oh no :(
<ikonia> Pici: that seems sensible
<Mamarok> I took this for granted
<seeker^> Who changed it?
<Mamarok> lefty
<wgrant> leftyfb.
<Pici> Mamarok: not you, I mean people who aren't normally operators
<wgrant> I mean, it is pretty much out.
<ikonia> the member cloak is quite broad
<wgrant> But we have always previously waited for the announcement.
<wgrant> And the RM came in and announced it.
<Pici> There are hundreds of ubuntu members now
<Mamarok> well, I counted on that be true and change the topic in #k already
<wgrant> Many hundreds.
<wgrant> Mamarok: Same in #u
<Pici> Mamarok: I did the same in #u because I saw the change in #u-r-p's topic
<nalioth> i don't think pulling all the access because of one idjit is wise
<ikonia> seems a sensible thing to do
<seeker^> Why do members need access?
<jpds> Can we get lefty in here?
<ikonia> I think it was self moderating
<Pici> nalioth: or at least sending out a list of guidelines for the release event
<ikonia> that was the idea
<wgrant> It has worked reasonably before.
<nalioth> seeker^: because in a channel like #u-r-p, the more ops - the better
<nalioth> and one would expect any member to uphold the Ubuntu way
<wgrant> It hasn't caused problems before tonight.
<seeker^> Apart from the case where there are too many people with ops
<Pici> nalioth: The problem is that many of these people don't normally do any operator duties
<seeker^> And the number of members icreases to the point where the probability that there is somone that will do something stupid has ops
<seeker^> is too high
<Mamarok> o noes, now they do numbers :(
<wgrant> The danish stopped them.
<Mamarok> and we should change the factoid, too
<wgrant> Does somebody want to correct ubot3's !isitout?
<wgrant> Right.
<Pici> I muted it
<Pici> it'll get synced to ubottu soon
<Mamarok> ok, thx Pici :)
<ikonia> ha ha, "want to correct it" - "I've muted it" best correction
<Mamarok> and the count goes down
<Mamarok> thx ikonia :)
<Mamarok> I wonder how long this p'arty will last
<Mamarok> -'
<Mamarok> that was not a hickup, in case you wonder
<Pici> #u+1 is forwarding to #u now
<Mamarok> ok, slangasek updated the topic in #u-devel, too, time: 15:46 (UTC+1)
<slangasek> why did my +m not work in #u-r-party? :)
<Pici> slangasek: It did
<wgrant> slangasek: You're a bit late, unfortunately.
<Pici> slangasek: The channel is +z so ops still see people talking
<slangasek> oh, that's confusing :P
<slangasek> wgrant: buh?  somebody announced it already?
<wgrant> slangasek: Um, yes. Somebody somewhat privileged saw that ubuntu.com had updated, and changed the topic.
<wgrant> A bit of a 'WTF are you doing?' moment here...j
<slangasek> hum, ok then
<Pici> And then some other people saw that the topic had updated and changed the other main channels :/
<wgrant> Anyway, 6 months to develop a scheme to avoid similar things happening again.
<slangasek> +z - that's new, then; is that going to be standard practice, so I remember next time and don't sit there dumbly waiting for the channel to go quiet? :)
 * anthony is sad
<anthony> Linode had a quick outage and I missed it :(
<anthony> Shoulda synced up this client to all the channels I guess.
<anthony> slangasek: It's relatively common at least.
<Pici> Can someone else please update !torrents, the bot decided to ignore me.
<Pici> !torrents
<Pici> oh, sure, ignore me here too why dont you. /me shakes fist at ubottu
<ikonia> duk: please remove #ubuntu from your auto join channel list
<ikonia> duk: you've already stated you don't want to join
<ikonia> !torrents
<ubottu> Karmic can be torrented from http://hr.releases.ubuntu.com/9.10/ubuntu-9\.10-desktop-i386.iso.torrent or http://se.releases.ubuntu.com/9.04/ubuntu-9.04-server-amd64.iso.torrent depending on your architecture. Torrents for other Ubuntu flavours can be found at: http://it.releases.ubuntu.com/ (CD) or http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases (DVD).
<Pici> I messed up the regex too as you can see
<ikonia> oooh, so I see :)
<nalioth> i give up.  i can't get the bot to update  :(
<ikonia> !torrents is Karmic can be torrented from http://hr.releases.ubuntu.com/9.10/ubuntu-9.1010-desktop-i386.iso.torrent or http://se.releases.ubuntu.com/9.10/ubuntu-9.10-server-adm64.iso.torrent depending on your architecture. Torrents for other Ubuntu flavours can be found at: http://it.releases.ubuntu.com/ (CD) or http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases (DVD).
<ubottu> But torrents already means something else!
<ikonia> !forget torrents
<ubottu> I'll forget that, ikonia
<ikonia> !torrents is Karmic can be torrented from http://hr.releases.ubuntu.com/9.10/ubuntu-9.1010-desktop-i386.iso.torrent or http://se.releases.ubuntu.com/9.10/ubuntu-9.10-server-adm64.iso.torrent depending on your architecture. Torrents for other Ubuntu flavours can be found at: http://it.releases.ubuntu.com/ (CD) or http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases (DVD).
<ikonia> ughhh
<ikonia> I've made a typo now
<jpds> ikonia: <reply>
<ikonia> it's never needed reply before or I'm forgetting
<ikonia> !torrents is <reply > Karmic can be torrented from http://hr.releases.ubuntu.com/9.10/ubuntu-9.10-desktop-i386.iso.torrent or http://se.releases.ubuntu.com/9.10/ubuntu-9.10-server-adm64.iso.torrent depending on your architecture. Torrents for other Ubuntu flavours can be found at: http://it.releases.ubuntu.com/ (CD) or http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases (DVD).
<ubottu> But torrents already means something else!
<ikonia> I just told you to forget it
<ikonia> !forget torrents
<ubottu> I know nothing about torrents yet, ikonia
<ikonia> !torrents is <reply > Karmic can be torrented from http://hr.releases.ubuntu.com/9.10/ubuntu-9.10-desktop-i386.iso.torrent or http://se.releases.ubuntu.com/9.10/ubuntu-9.10-server-adm64.iso.torrent depending on your architecture. Torrents for other Ubuntu flavours can be found at: http://it.releases.ubuntu.com/ (CD) or http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases (DVD).
<ubottu> But torrents already means something else!
<ikonia> !torrents is <reply> Karmic can be torrented from http://hr.releases.ubuntu.com/9.10/ubuntu-9.10-desktop-i386.iso.torrent or http://se.releases.ubuntu.com/9.10/ubuntu-9.10-server-adm64.iso.torrent depending on your architecture. Torrents for other Ubuntu flavours can be found at: http://it.releases.ubuntu.com/ (CD) or http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases (DVD).
<jpds> ikonia: Now you have to !unforget. :(
<bazhang> perhaps !no
<ikonia> jpds: why do you have to unfoget ?
<ikonia> !unforget torrents
<ubottu> I suddenly remember torrents again, ikonia
<Pici> its silly
<ikonia> it's not listening to certain things
<ubottu> ScottK called the ops in #ubuntu-motu ()
<Pici> silly
<ubottu> In ubottu, Jordan_U said: grub15 is Getting GRUB error 15 after installing 9.10 / upgrading to GRUB2? You probably have grub legacy installed to the MBR but GRUB2 in /boot, to fix this problem follow these instructions http://grub.enbug.org/Grub2LiveCdInstallGuide
<Amaranth> dang I was way off on my guess for #ubuntu
<Amaranth> only 1700 people
<Pici> 11:18:49 >>>> Irssi: Peak for #ubuntu@freenode: 1865 (Thu Oct 29 10:20:50 2009)
<Jordan_U> This seems to be the most common problem people are having with grub, and error 15 isn't a particularly usefull error message ( googling does not return usefull information ) so this would be a nice factoid to have
<ikonia> Jordan_U thanks for the info
<ubottu> In #ubuntu, newtolinux said: ubottu: thanks is it same version that released today?
<Jordan_U_> ikonia: np
<Pici> okay. *I* updated !torrents
<ikonia> Pici: how ??
<ikonia> did it just start working ?
<Pici> !torrents
<ubottu> Karmic can be torrented from http://hr.releases.ubuntu.com/9.10/ubuntu-9.10-desktop-i386.iso.torrent or http://se.releases.ubuntu.com/9.10/ubuntu-9.10-server-amd64.iso.torrent depending on your architecture. Torrents for other Ubuntu flavours can be found at: http://it.releases.ubuntu.com/ (CD) or http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases (DVD).
<Pici> ikonia: I editied the factoid manually and re-did it.
<ikonia> when you see manually do you mean in the database ?
<Pici> I mean !no torrents is <reply> blah blah blah
<Pici> 5.04...
<jrib> so sad, first ubuntu release I don't have installed the day it's released :(
<jrib> Pici: think it will break 2000?
<ikonia> Jordan_U: can we help?
<ubottu> In ubottu, IdleOne said: isitout is  Karmic can be torrented from http://hr.releases.ubuntu.com/9.10/ubuntu-9.10-desktop-i386.iso.torrent or http://se.releases.ubuntu.com/9.10/ubuntu-9.10-server-amd64.iso.torrent depending on your architecture. Torrents for other Ubuntu flavours can be found at: http://it.releases.ubuntu.com/ (CD) or http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases (DVD).
<ikonia> Jordan_U: do you need anything else ?
<ikonia> Jordan_U: can we help you ?
<ubottu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join)
<ikonia> Jordan_U: are you active or do you have here on auto join ?
<jpds> ikonia: away and is idle : 0 days 0 hours 2 mins 52 secs
<ikonia> guess it's an auto join as he keeps parting and joining
<MenZa> Is -release-party running wild?
<Pici> not really
<MenZa> impressive
<MenZa> 1767 nicks Jesus Christ.
<Pici>  We peaked at 1177 users in #u-r-p and 1865 in
<Pici> #ubuntu
<MenZa> Yowch.
<nalioth> yeah, we get more folks in #ubuntu with each release
<MenZa> we always do, but I've not seen 1865 before I think
<MenZa> Wait, I thought we discouraged  dist-upgrade now and were all-in on update-manager?
<nalioth> MenZa: of course you haven't. we hit 1865 about 3 hours ago
<MenZa> heh
<Pici> MenZa: dist-upgrade is fine, just not for upgrading to a new release.
<MenZa> Ah, ok.
<MenZa> Don't we want apt-get upgrade, then?
<MenZa> @p ic
<MenZa> @ Pici*
<Pici> !dist-upgrade
<ubottu> A dist-upgrade will install new dependencies for packages already installed and may remove packages if they are no longer needed.
<MenZa> I see.
<MenZa> I thought dist-upgrade would upgrade to the newer distribution.
<Pici> do-release-upgrade or update-manager should be used for upgrading to a new release.
<Pici> MenZa: Most people do, hence why I made the factoid.
<MenZa> aha
<MenZa> And upgrade does what?
<Pici> I mean it could be used in conjunction with changing the sources.list file with sed, but we don't want people doing that.
<MenZa> heh
<MenZa> I remember when that's how upgrades were done back with 5.10
<Pici> upgrade will pull in package upgrades, but not if the packages depend on packages not yet installed.
<MenZa> Ah
 * MenZa nods
<Pici> and it won't remove things no longer needed.
<ubottu> LjL called the ops in #ubuntu (sudobash)
<Flannel> Morning all
<ubottu> In #ubuntu, seena said: ubottu, nothing is happening, its not resetting to my previous settings
<mneptok> !bot > seena
<LjL> would someone kindly look at sudobash? he has a long history, and the stuff he now said in #ubuntu-offtopic and, previously, in #ubuntu, is i think NOT fine.
<MenZa> LjL: examples?
<MenZa> I'm just scanning the backlog
<MenZa> (in -ot)
<LjL> MenZa: [19:53:50] <sudobash> No SHIT UBERTACO THAT IS WHERE I AM ASSHOLE
<MenZa> I'll keep an eye out, LjL :)
 * mneptok is dealing
<LjL> thanks
<mneptok> i just asked him/her to join us here
<LjL> i'll be going then.
<MenZa> mneptok: you take over, then :)
<mneptok> sudobash: care to explain your comments to me in /query?
<mneptok> 13:03 [Freenode] [msg(sudobash)] please join #ubuntu-ops
<mneptok> 13:03 [Freenode] [sudobash(n=andrea@unaffiliated/sudobash)] how come so you can bitch at me
<mneptok> 13:03 [Freenode] [sudobash(n=andrea@unaffiliated/sudobash)] how about I just go to a different server?
<sudobash> every time you want some one to come in here it is usually to bitch at them... What are you a cop or my mom?
<mneptok> i'd also like to point out that #ubuntu is a support channel, and is not the proper place to discuss your dealings with recruiters.
<sudobash> dude this server is so fucking lame
<Flannel> sudobash: If you want to go to a different server, by all means, please do.
<MenZa> Lovely attitude.
<mneptok> banned in #u and -ot
<Pici> Won't be the first time we've had to do so.
<MenZa> andrea_: Have you re-adjusted your attitude now?
<sudobash> was there something you all wanted to say before I never come back?
<MenZa> !coc | sudobash
<ubottu> sudobash: The Ubuntu Code of Conduct to which we ask all Ubuntu users to adhere can be found at http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct/
<sudobash> Didnt want to leave anyone with words they want to express...
<MenZa> !guidelines | sudobash
<ubottu> sudobash: The guidelines for using the Ubuntu channels can be found here: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines
<MenZa> Have a look at those. That's about it.
<sudobash> have seen them years ago
<MenZa> So why are you ignoring them full-stop?
<sudobash> anything else before I leave for good?
<ikonia> please leave for good
<sudobash> awesome
<MenZa> Bye.
<sudobash> have fun with being a bunch of fucking pricks
<sudobash> on a lame ass server
<ikonia> ok - bye
<sudobash> where everyone is assholes
<mneptok> "are"
<MenZa> sudobash: Are you done venting so we can resume normal order?
<sudobash> Opps I guess I just dont give a fuck
<ikonia> ok - bye then
<sudobash> bye pricks
<ikonia> moving on.
<sudobash> LJL dont you get tired of being a fucking snitch>
<sudobash> ?
<MenZa> Clean-up in aisle two!
<MenZa> mneptok: Is that a static IP+
<MenZa> ?*
<mneptok> MenZa: dunno. why?
<MenZa> I was thinking *!*@c-76-127-21-206.hsd1.tn.comcast.net instead in -ot.
<mneptok> MenZa: if the IP is not static, that ban is worthless
<MenZa> very truel
<MenZa> -l
<Pici> Hopefully he doesn't try to come back.
<ikonia> he has history as long as my arm
<mneptok> ikonia: that's not saying much if you're a t-rex
<ikonia> you can sleep easy that I'm not a t-rex
<ubottu> LjL called the ops in #kubuntu (sudobash)
<niko> in how many #*ubuntu* he did bad things ?
<mneptok> niko: 3 i'm aware of
<nalioth> niko: he's being observed
<mneptok> niko: not like you can do anything about it, since this is a LAME network with ASSHOLE opers.
<mneptok> *sigh*
<mneptok> WTF is wrong with people?
<niko> mneptok: :)
<ubottu> LjL called the ops in #xubuntu (sudobash)
<mneptok> now in #edubuntu, too
<mneptok> 13:24 [Freenode] -!- sudobash [n=andrea@c-76-127-21-206.hsd1.tn.comcast.net]
<mneptok> 13:24 [Freenode] -!-  ircname  : Andrea
<mneptok> 13:24 [Freenode] -!-  channels : #xubuntu #edubuntu #sudobash
<ikonia> ughhh
<LjL> sudobash is threatening to "start up his redirecting script again". by that, he means a script that automatically mass-registers freenode channels with names that are a mispelling of legitimate channels (#ubutnu, #getnoo, etc), and redirects them to #sudobash
<LjL> i think nalioth or some other staffer might be familiar with that from some time ago
<ikonia> all done
<ikonia> looks like staff are looking at it as chanserv delt with it
<mneptok> LjL: nalioth is busy weeping gently. it's release day for Ubuntu on Freenode. and he still has that pesky o:  ;)
<LjL> i see
<LjL> anyway this is my unsolicited query with the individual for reference, http://pastebin.ca/1648231
<LjL> going for dinner now
<Mamarok> sudobash is back in #k
<ikonia> Pici: is that ok to do ?
<ikonia> I thought he had to be a problem in that channel ?
<ikonia> (not that I disagree "thank you")
<Pici> ikonia: I don't care what advice hes giving, hes ban evading now.
<ikonia> I didn't know he was banned in #kubuntu - that explains it, thanks
<czajkowski> .
<Pici> indeed
<Pricey> How's sudobash doing?
<ikonia> wild
<ikonia> http://pastebin.ca/1648231
<ikonia> from ljl
<MenZa> in #edubuntu as well.
<Pricey> no need to follow
<ikonia> he's quiet now
<MenZa> oh, I meant to be in that anyway
<MenZa> I will, however, remain quiet as in 90% of my other #u* channels.
<Mamarok> I will have to leave soon, can somebody give a hand in #kubuntu, please? Seems I am alone there
<ikonia> sure
<Mamarok> thanks a lot :)
<MenZa> [2009-10-29 19:48:24 UTC] < sudobash> ubuntu ops suck dick
<MenZa> From #edu
<ubottu> In ubottu, guntbert said: !isn't it time to tell ubottu that the *current* vesion is karmic? info <package> makes her tell us the jaunty version :) (tried with mc and gnome-schedule)
<MenZa> !nick is <reply> Your nick is how people know you on IRC. Please don't change your nicknames too often, or it creates a lot of confusion. You should also !register your nick with Freenode.
<ubottu> In #ubuntu-ops, MenZa said: !nick is <reply> Your nick is how people know you on IRC. Please don't change your nicknames too often, or it creates a lot of confusion. You should also !register your nick with Freenode.
<MenZa> Someone ^
<Flannel> !nick
<ubottu> Information about registering your nickname: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#userregistration - Type Â« /nick <nickname> Â» to select your nickname . Registration help available in #freenode
<Flannel> !-nick
<ubottu> nick is <alias> register - added by LjL on 2007-02-09 18:13:37
<Flannel> oops
<Flannel> !nick
<ubottu> nick is !nick is <reply> Your nick is how people know you on IRC. Please don't change your nicknames too often, or it creates a lot of confusion. You should also !register your nick with Freenode.
<MenZa> Doesn't mention that people shouldn't change their nick
 * Flannel hdies
<MenZa> There's
<MenZa> !away
<ubottu> You should avoid noisy away messages in a busy channel like #ubuntu, or other Ubuntu channels; it causes excessive scrolling which is unfair to new users. Use the command "/away <reason>" to set your client away silently.  See also Â«/msg ubottu GuidelinesÂ»
<MenZa> Ah :)
<MenZa> Excellent, Flannel.
<Flannel> !nick
<ubottu> Your nick is how people know you on IRC. Please don't change your nicknames too often, or it creates a lot of confusion (/nick newnick to change it). You should also !register your nick with Freenode.
<Flannel> MenZa: No, wasn't excellent, unless you enjoy recursion :)
<MenZa> :P
<Flannel> ooh, even better (read: shorter)
 * MenZa recurses Flannel 
<Flannel> You didn't even curse me the first time!
<Flannel> but wait
<Flannel> !nickspam
<ubottu> You should avoid changing your nick in a busy channel like #ubuntu, or other Ubuntu channels; it causes excessive scrolling which is unfair to new users. Please set your preferred nick in your client's settings instead. See also Â« /msg ubottu Guidelines Â»
<Flannel> Do we have three factoids that cover two topics collectively? or are they separate enough?
<Flannel> We're missing a !ua factoid (Ukranian)
<Flannel> Hmm, seems to be one person there, perhaps not.
<Flannel> !away > carresmd
<bucky> <bucky> ubuntu automatically logs me into #ubuntu in xchat and there is no way to change this default behavior afaik... then i get this
<bucky> <Morasique> henux: this list is at http://freenode.net/using_the_network.shtml
<bucky> <bucky>  ikonia sets ban on *!*@74-47-66-178.br1.moab.ut.frontiernet.net
<bucky>   You have been kicked from #ubuntu by ikonia (ban dodging is not acceptable)
<bucky> <henux> thanks
<bucky>  laters
<bucky> <Mez> bucky: #ubuntu-ops
<bucky> <-- Master_9 has quit (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Would you like to know more?")
<bucky>  henux (i=henrih@unaffiliated/henux) has left #freenode
<bucky> <bucky> ikonia has been busting my chops and I've already taken this to #ubuntu-ops and they haven't done anything about it
<bucky> <-- dot-dot-dot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
<bucky> <bucky> Does Canonical own freenode now?
<bucky> <me1> bucky, visit #xchat also if you want to remove that default joining, iirc it's either caused by joining the "ubuntu" network in the network screens, or check your settings for the freenode network, it might be in the auto-join area
<ikonia> please stop
<bucky> <niko> bucky: please #ubuntu-ops
<bucky> how long am i going to have to put up with this harrasment?
<bucky> shut up
<ikonia> it's not harrasment - if you clam down I'll explain
<bucky> Matt Darcy... shut up
<ikonia> you had a ban placed on you yesterday in #ubuntu, you had chanced your IP (it was an IP ban) so you where removed for ban dodging
<Flannel> bucky: Please be respectful
<ikonia> you where banned for making the kind of comments you are showing in here - if you clam down we can resolve it,
<ikonia> bucky, you where asked to stop making comments about genocide in #ubuntu-offtopic eg; how proud you where of it, when you where asked to stop - you called me a natzi
<ikonia> you where banned
<ikonia> you then joined 5 other channels to call me homosexual, natzi, cock sucker and various other names
<ikonia> that is why the ban in multiple channels stands
<ikonia> that's why you where removed from #ubuntu just now
<bucky> i didn't call you a cock sucker.. but if you insist
<ikonia> I don't have the exact comments to hand but I can get them, they where along those lines
<bucky> If i ever see you.. be looking for a bloody nose
<ikonia> ok - I won't be threatened, this conversation ends
<bucky> good then shut up
<MenZa> bucky: Control yourself. Immediately.
<MenZa> bucky: Please part this channel if you have nothing further. We will not tolerate any of our ops being threatened.
<nalioth> bucky: did you have anything further?
<bucky> i want the default behavior of xchat changed so i don't have to put up with this
<nalioth> you were given advice in #freenode as to getting it fixed
<mneptok> bucky: you can change that behavior in XChat's preferences
<bucky> no you can't
<nalioth> was there anything else, bucky ?
<bucky> where in preferences
<nalioth> this is not a support channel
<nalioth> did you have any further business with Ubuntu ops?
<bucky> you log me in just to ban me..? screw you
<nalioth> please respect our /topic, bucky
<bucky> you've got to show respect to get it and now  it's war
<bucky> debian traitor
<Flannel> bucky: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/XChatHowto#Configuration
<Flannel> oh, well, hmm
<Mez> can we get a saner !ot for #ubuntu-uk ?
<Flannel> What a jolly fellow.
<Flannel> !ot-#ubuntu-uk
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about ot-#ubuntu-uk
<nalioth> Flannel: you wish to encourage his behaviour?
<Mez> Flannel: it uses the !ot atm.
<Mez> which isnt relevant
<Mez> we talking about bucky?
<Flannel> nalioth: Encourage?  I was providing him with information on how to exact his configuration changes
<Mez> he's complaining in #freenode
<nalioth> Flannel: he threatened to beat ikonia up
<Flannel> nalioth: Indeed he did.
<Flannel> Yesterday too, if I remember correctly.
<Flannel> I'd rather see him never come back if the problem is in fact his lack of knowledge on how to set default channels.
<nalioth> Flannel: he was given advice in #freenode that would allow him to fix it
<MenZa> nalioth: What is the freenode policy on threatening comments?
<nalioth> this isn't about xchat
<Mez> Flannel: if you can look into the ot-#ubuntu-uk - I'd appreciate it :D
<ikonia> I'm not to fussed in honesty
<mneptok> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor
<nalioth> MenZa: it puts one in the train station
 * MenZa thinks a swift K-line should do the trick.
<Flannel> Mez: Got any suggestions?
<MenZa> ikonia: It's still not acceptable in any way.
<MenZa> ikonia: It wouldn't bother me personally, but any sort of comment like that should get you k-lined, no questions asked.
<ikonia> I understand but as long as he's not a problem in the channels he can go about his business elsewhere
<MenZa> But that's freenode policy we're talking.
<mneptok> MenZa: come HERE and say stuff like that. i'll ....
<mneptok> i'll ...
<MenZa> :D
<mneptok> well, you can have some of the pizza i bought
 * MenZa cuddles mneptok better.
<Flannel> Mez: I mean, I could sprinkle in some extra 'u's and 'e's but...
<Mez> !ot-#ubuntu-offtopic is <alias> ot4ot
<ubottu> In #ubuntu-ops, Mez said: !ot-#ubuntu-offtopic is <alias> ot4ot
<Mez> would probably work
<MenZa> speaking of pizza, I could do with some.
<MenZa> I think I have some leftover carbonara I shall go and scavenge on.
 * Mez hands MenZa a leftover slice from yesterday
 * MenZa hobbles downstairs.
<MenZa> Oooh.
<ikonia> he's asking in #ubuntu-devel for xchat support now
 * ikonia summons nalioth 
 * ikonia vanquishes nalioth 
<ikonia> nalioth: now #ubuntu-meeting
<ikonia> same behaviour as last night
<ikonia> nalioth: sorry to play treasure hunt with you
<mneptok> that sounds like a euphemism for something i don;t want to think about.
 * nalioth plastic wraps mneptok to his office chair
<ikonia> now that's an image
<mneptok> i hope "bucky has been g-lined" is the only "happy ending" today ...
<nalioth> you'll have to coax him to another network for one of those  :P
<ikonia> I'm getting pm'd now with abuse
 * nalioth notes that freenode is fresh out of "G"s
<ikonia> can I have a K please bob ?
<Flannel> I'd like to buy a vowel.
 * nalioth offers ikonia /quote silence *!?=yeehaw@*
<ikonia> I've just closed the window and focused on channels
 * mneptok vies for Flannel's bowels
<ubottu> In ubottu, erUSUL said: Empathy is an instant messaging and video chat client for GNOME. In !karmic, Empathy has replaced Pidgin as the default IM client.
<niko> i like erUSUL contribs
 * MenZa nods.
<topyli> if we think pidgin fans are outraged, the factoid could add something like "pidgin is still available, don't panic"
<MenZa> hehehe
<topyli> that's hardly necessary, everyone knows that. half joking :)
 * MenZa replaces libpurple with telepathy in the repos.
<topyli> oh defaults are everyone's favorite rant. i could talk all day about how ubuntu breaks nautilus, but i'm too old for that. no energy for that, so i just change it for my own desktop :)
#ubuntu-ops 2009-10-30
 * nalioth is still sore about them jettisioning irssi from the defaults . . 
<Flannel> nalioth: Amen to that
<topyli> damn those ubuntu people
<Flannel> topyli: eh, it's important in the case of X breakage.  "irc" at a terminal starts up a happy-friendly-help session
<topyli> whut
<topyli> i've never had irssi on ubuntu, so i wouldn't know how painful it is. my irssi runs on a debian server
<Flannel> topyli: Since irssi isn't installed by default, you have no IRC client should X break
<Flannel> (by default)
<topyli> this much i know
<Flannel> topyli: Back when irssi was, you did.
<topyli> hmm
<topyli> i still wouldn't include irssi on the cd. apparently, you would :)
<Flannel> I just think having some live communication from broken-X is an important safety net
<topyli> sure, agreed
<topyli> not sure if a newbie with broken X would think about this though
<Flannel> whether that means installed by default, or hand-held through installing/using when X breaks, or whatever.
<Flannel> topyli: Right.  but "irc" does start irssi through alternatives
<Flannel> so, one needn't know about irssi exactly
<topyli> hrm. except it doesnt?
<Flannel> topyli: do you have irssi installed?
<Seeker`> irssi \o/
<Seeker`> is it out yet?
<Flannel> does "irc" start whatever GUI you've got?
<topyli> not on ubuntu. it's on the server over there somewhere
<Flannel> topyli: Ah well, it does!
<topyli> Flannel, 'irc' says there is nothing, and advices me to install.... OHHH NOW I SEE
<topyli> this really is not good
<Flannel> topyli: if you have irssi installed, "irc" starts irssi (/etc/alternatives/irc)
<topyli> but program-not-found doesn't even mention it
<MenZa> Could someone watch llua in #u?
<niko> the best place for irssi in into a screen on a server
<topyli> haha
<Flannel> MenZa: Just removed from -ot
<MenZa> Flannel: Aye, I saw
<MenZa> Flannel: He's re-spamming in #u
<mnaines> I found a good book to recommend to people who want to get more in-depth information about Ubuntu
<Flannel> Howdy mnaines, how can we help you tonight?
<mnaines> Flannel, I found a book to recommend to people who want to get more in-depth info about Ubuntu
<mnaines> "The Official Ubuntu Book", written by some of the top contributors to the Ubuntu project
<mnaines> It covers Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Edubuntu, common problems and troubleshooting issues, installation and use, ubuntu server, and command line stuff
<Seeker`> sorry, I seem to have missed how the is relevant to -ops
<mnaines> Seeker`: I figure the ops would be able to recommend the book to people if the question cannot be answered in the support room
<Seeker`> if people are asking questions in #ubuntu and don't get an answer, there are better options than a book to refer them to next
<mnaines> True
<mnaines> Anyway, I'm out
<krummlauf> uh
<Seeker`> how can we help you?
<Madpilot> um, does everyone with a membership cloak have ops in -release-party?
<nalioth> Madpilot: that's what the ACL says
<Madpilot> ah
<nalioth> why do you ask?
<Flannel> Hellow's relishing in it still, I imagine.
<Madpilot> just had a random member attempt to bounce a quasi-troll
<Madpilot> yes, Hellow
<nalioth> feel free to rein 'em in (via PM, preferably)
<Madpilot> vs Ubantu_Dude, who thankfully is being ignored
<Flannel> Howdy mnaines, how can we help you today?
<mnaines> I do not know how to call the ops to the support room, but we are having an issue with a particular room member
<Flannel> mnaines: Whos that?
<mnaines> Goes by the name MatFarrel, he's whining that there aren't enough seeds on the torrent and he keeps telling people to help him make the download faster
<Flannel> mnaines: I'll keep an eye on him, thanks for the headsup
<mnaines> Not a problem
<krummlauf> wheres ikonia
<cdm10> (Ubantu is in #u, in case no one noticed)
<ubottu> Hellow called the ops in #ubuntu ()
<cdm10> Shabalabadingda
<ubottu> MenZa called the ops in #ubuntu (Shabalabadingda)
<MenZa> No ops around?
<MenZa> !staff
<ubottu> Hey nalioth, jenda, rob, SportChick, seanw, Dave2, Christel, tomaw, Gary, Vorian, PriceChild, niko or stew, I could use a bit of your time :)
 * Amaranth loves Floodbot
<MenZa> Amaranth: Could you clean up in #u?
<Amaranth> Depends on what clean up means :)
<Amaranth> MenZa: You don't have access?
<MenZa> Nope.
<MenZa> Ubantu, Shabalabadinga.
<cdm10> erm, he's back?
<Amaranth> MenZa: Have at it :)
<MenZa> Not anymore, apparently.
 * Amaranth is doing some programming stuff right now
<cdm10> Amaranth: it's THAT easy to get ops in #u? Damn, shoulda tried that a long time ago! :)
<Amaranth> cdm10: MenZa is an op, just not in #ubuntu
<cdm10> Amaranth: ah. Haven't seen him around.
<Amaranth> hrm, guess he doesn't want to do it
<MenZa> I did not notice that until now, Amaranth :P
<Amaranth> Well, I guess you can just call for ops as needed
<Amaranth> I'll be gone (bed) in about 45 minutes
<MenZa> Shall do, you seem to be the only one around.
<ubottu> ScottTesterman called the ops in #kubuntu ()
<_Ubantu_Dude_> I am being unfairly treated in the ubuntu channels
<Amaranth> How do?
<Amaranth> err, how so?
<_Ubantu_Dude_> Well Hellow banned me from Ubuntu-release-party because I accused him of being a douche bag because his mom took away all of his anime and grounded him
<Amaranth> Uh
<_Ubantu_Dude_> and tonyyarusso banned me from #ubuntu-offtopic because I told him I fornicated with his imaginary girlfriend
<Amaranth> _Ubantu_Dude_: You're not getting unbanned, you might as well just leave now
<MenZa> _Ubantu_Dude_: Please stop trolling.
<MenZa> Or at least go to a different channel so you can get k-lined.
<_Ubantu_Dude_> and I forgot why I got banned from #ubuntu but I think I said some ethnic slur or something anit-hew
<_Ubantu_Dude_> jew
<_Ubantu_Dude_> I forget what I do these days
<MenZa> _Ubantu_Dude_: Then maybe you shouldn't be in the #ubuntu channels.
<MenZa> !coc > _Ubantu_Dude_
<ubottu> _Ubantu_Dude_, please see my private message
<_Ubantu_Dude_> O its cool, ive been klined atleast 30 times from freenode
<Amaranth> !ops
<ubottu> Help! Channel emergency! (ONLY use this trigger in emergencies) -  elky,  imbrandon, DBO, gnomefreak, Hobbsee, rob, Madpilot, CarlK, crimsun, ajmitch, tritium, Nalioth, thoreauputic, apokryphos, tonyyarusso,  PriceChild, Amaranth, jrib, jenda, nixternal, Myrtti, mneptok, Pici, Jack_Sparrow, nickrud, jpds, bazhang, jussi01, Flannel or ikonia!
<ubottu> Amaranth called the ops in #ubuntu-ops ()
<MenZa> nalioth, would you care to take alook at the above statement?
<cdm10> _Ubantu_Dude_: you're Doing It Wrong
<MenZa> cdm10: Please don't interfere :)
<cdm10> sorry :)
<_Ubantu_Dude_> I am just using some random tor exit node at the moment to be honest
<_Ubantu_Dude_> Dude Amaranth did you summon like captian planet or something
<_Ubantu_Dude_> maybe even voltron?
<Amaranth> You're obviously not because those are flagged as such by freenode. Try again.
<_Ubantu_Dude_> I would say 90% of them are
<_Ubantu_Dude_> but anyway
<MenZa> !staff | _Ubantu_Dude_ (K-line evasion)
<ubottu> _Ubantu_Dude_ (K-line evasion): Hey nalioth, jenda, rob, SportChick, seanw, Dave2, Christel, tomaw, Gary, Vorian, PriceChild, niko or stew, I could use a bit of your time :)
<_Ubantu_Dude_> si am I getting unbanned or what?
<Amaranth> _Ubantu_Dude_: Nope
<_Ubantu_Dude_> Aww why not?
<_Ubantu_Dude_> you guys are no fun
<_Ubantu_Dude_> its bed time anyway
<_Ubantu_Dude_> have a good night!
<ubottu> yuriy called the ops in #kubuntu ()
<MenZa> For the record, I notified jayne of his comments, Amaranth
<MenZa> cdm10: Do you have any further?
<cdm10> MenZa: er, about?
<MenZa> cdm10: You tell me. :)
<MenZa> cdm10: Please not our non-idling policy in the /topic
<cdm10> MenZa: oh, sorry :)
<MenZa> np :)
<Flannel> wow, still going.
<jussi01> !isitout
<ubottu> No! It's not out yet! Await the release in #ubuntu-release-party, and be sure to read channel /topic!
<jussi01> !no, isitout is <reply>YES!!! its out! Please try to use a torrent or a mirror to get your downloads. Torrents can be found at http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/ and support is in #ubuntu
<ubottu> I'll remember that jussi01
<jussi01> !isitout
<ubottu> YES!!! its out! Please try to use a torrent or a mirror to get your downloads. Torrents can be found at http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/ and support is in #ubuntu
<MenZa> jussi01: so. many. exclamation. marks.
 * MenZa cries for humanity
<Tm_T> !!!!!!11
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about 11
<MenZa> lol
<MenZa> !42
<ubottu> The Answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything.
<jussi01> MenZa: its for release party mostly, it needs them :P
<MenZa> :D
<MenZa> jussi01: Then I demand "YES!!11oneonecos(2b^(2y/3x^2))"
<MenZa> If you're going to overdo it, overdo it properly!
<ubottu> FloodBot3 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join)
<jussi01> rofl
<jussi01> thats probably my fault
<ubottu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join)
<jussi01> the mass join I mean.
<jussi01> I just forwarded #ubuntu+1 to #ubuntu and cleared the channel.
<jussi01> we will re-open it soon.
<Flannel> !!!!!punctuation | MenZa
<ubottu> MenZa: Punctuation is good, but its overuse hurts readability:  Please refrain from adding many ?'s or !'s to the end of your sentences.  See also !enter
<MenZa> :D
<Flannel> MenZa: cos(2b^(2y/3x^2))?  intersting
<MenZa> Rather.
<Flannel> Interesting surface at any rate.
<MenZa> Set it to = 0, then try to solve it.
<MenZa> Provide solution.
<Flannel> pi/4 = b^(2y/3x^2), ln(pi/4) = ln(b^(2y/3x^2)
<mneptok> jussi01: did my e-mail make it to the list?
<jussi01> mneptok: yes
<mneptok> exmohlent
<Flannel> MenZa: y = ln(pi/4)/ln(b) 3x^2
<Flannel> booorrrinnggg
<Flannel> math broke the servers :(
<jussi01> haha
<jussi01> ubot3`: isitout
<ubot3`> No! It's not out yet! Await the release in #ubuntu-release-party, and be sure to read channel /topic!
 * jussi01 sighs... mayb in a few mins...
 * mneptok outs ubot3` 
<Tm_T> jussi01: you didn't immune me (:
<jussi01> Tm_T: theres is no immunity, unless you happen to be freenode staff :
<ubottu> FloodBot2 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit)
<ubottu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit)
<Tm_T> jussi01: bah, then that's no fun
<jussi01> hehe
<Flannel> jussi01: You should've kicked ubottu first from +1
<jussi01> Flannel: ?
<Flannel> jussi01: bantracker is full of a bajillion removes from +1
<jussi01> crap, thats a good point.
<Flannel> (bajillion is a technical term, by the way)
<jussi01> hehe
<MenZa> dear lord, Flannel
<Flannel> MenZa: I didn't do it!
<Tm_T> 0853.22 < partyanimal3_> well some idiot guy posted his link with this name on facebook
<Tm_T> sillyness
<MenZa> Flannel: I meant the solution to my expression
<MenZa> Christ dude.
<Flannel> MenZa: Oh, what?
<MenZa> Ku. Dos.
 * MenZa is not a mathematician.
<MenZa> now write it in latex!
 * MenZa whips
<Flannel> y &= \ln \frac{\frac{\pi{}}{4}}{\ln b} 3x^2
<MenZa> y &= \cos\left(2b^{\frac{2y}{3x^2}--yeah.
<MenZa> :P
<MenZa> LaTeX is wonderful.
<MenZa> And stop it, you're keeping me from doing work.
<MenZa> Flannel: By the way, the database is coming along sexily.
<Flannel> Awwww, how cute.  We both assume multiline equations :)
<MenZa> Yes. :3
<MenZa> align <3
<Madpilot> speaking of numbers, did we ever break 2000 in #ubuntu?
<MenZa> 1800-something, I believe was our max
<Flannel> Madpilot: nope, 1865
 * MenZa modifies supybot to fork repeatedly and join #ubuntu
<jussi01> not bad tho
<MenZa> not at all
<Flannel> and -r-p peaked at 1177
 * jussi01 forks MenZa
<Madpilot> ya, that's the most I saw
<Flannel> I don't remember what our peak was prior, I've only had chanpeak loaded for a release or two, I want to say dapper had a big #u
<Madpilot> but I had lousy connectivity all afternoon, the landlady's awful router hates fast bittorrent connections and I was torrenting both ISOs...
<Flannel> but, it mightve been 18 something
<jussi01> oh, thats new....
<jussi01> http://edition.cnn.com/2009/TECH/10/29/internet.domains.languages/index.html
<Flannel> jussi01: great....
<bazhang> installing a windows iso from within Ubuntu? possible/on topic ?
<jussi01> hehe
<jussi01> One question that has not yet been resolved, however, is how people in countries that use the Latin script will be able to access Web sites with Korean, Hindi or Arabic domain names. ICANN doesn't have an answer to that, but is confident a new technology will fill that gap soon.
<Flannel> Yeah, we'll be going to domains that I don't know how to read, let alone pronounce.
<Flannel> and we'll have g[random o-ish letter][random-oish letter]gle.com!
<Flannel> phishing? what's that!
<jussi01> gÃ¶Ã¶gle.com?
<jussi01> :D
<jussi01> I think I need to register that :D
<Flannel> jussi01: Nah, they'll find things that look identical.  Although, goeoegle is interesting indeed.
<Tm_T> gÃ¸Ã¸gle ?
<mneptok> http://www.google.com/intl/xx-bork/
<mneptok> bork bork bork!
<jussi01> Flannel: funny thing is, gÃ¶Ã¶gle would be pronounced gurgleh :P
<Flannel> Tm_T: My sister was once bitten by a moose!
<Flannel> nÃ¸ realli!
<jussi01> lÃ¶l
<MenZa> win.
<MenZa> gÃ¸Ã¸gle!
<Tm_T> ÃµÃ¶Ã¸Ã¶Ã³Ã² and what else...
<jussi01> Tm_T: www.micrÃ¶sÃ¶ft.com
<jussi01> www.yÃ¥hoo.com
<jussi01> www.yÃ¤hoo.com
<jussi01> the list could go on forever
<Tm_T> jussi01: Ã¥ is o
<jussi01> Tm_T: we are talking about looks, not actual sounds...
<Tm_T> was about to say that (:
<mneptok> Veelkomm tiw Miikrosuft! Zee niw Veenders Servin eez bin ryoolesed!
<mneptok> BORK BORK BORK!
<Flannel> bjork bjork bjork!
<jussi01> mneptok: ...
<mneptok> jussi01: *gasp* you don't know the Swedish Chef?!
<mneptok> http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=swedish+chef&search=Search
<krummlauf> we can say whatever we want here huh
<krummlauf> BORK BORK BORK BORK
<krummlauf> EHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHhhehehehehhehhehehhehhhehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
<bazhang> ?
<mneptok> krummlauf: if you have no current business with the ops team, we ask you do not idle. please read the /topic
<krummlauf> huh
<krummlauf> i do
<krummlauf> i do
<mneptok> which is ...
<krummlauf> oh
<krummlauf> ikonioa
<krummlauf> givin me probs
<mneptok> idle     : 0 days 8 hours 9 mins 0 secs [signon: Wed Oct 28 15:07:48 2009]
<mneptok> safe to assume you will not be speaking about it with him soon.
<mneptok> you should /part and then /join later to see if he's active.
<topyli> i'm all for unicode domains. motÃ¶rhead can finally create an official website, and they totally deserve one
<jussi01> topyli: hehe
<mneptok> topyli: lÃ¥nce Ã°is bÃ¶il Ã¶n my fÃ¥ce
<topyli> hÃ¶hÃ¶hÃ¶
<mneptok> trÃ¥ lÃ¥ lÃ¥
<jussi01> hÃ¶h
<Tm_T> kids...
<mneptok> krummlauf: i have tried to be nice. please leave this channel until ikonia is active.
<dholbach> good morning
<mneptok> dholbach: moin!
 * mneptok heads to bed
<jussi01_> !forget isitout-#ubuntu-release-party
<ubottu> In #ubuntu-ops, jussi01_ said: !forget isitout-#ubuntu-release-party
<jussi01_> @login
<ubottu> Error: Your hostmask doesn't match or your password is wrong.
<jussi01> @login
<ubottu> The operation succeeded.
<jussi01> !forget isitout-#ubuntu-release-party
<ubottu> I'll forget that, jussi01
<Mamarok> can somebody have an eye on #kubuntu, please? I am hungry...
<Tm_T> Mamarok: I'll try a moment, but not sure how long I can
<Mamarok> Tm_T: mostly to prevent Jonathan aka eagles to tell silly stuff
<Tm_T> roger
<Tm_T> ok, I really cannot help I notice, being busy here with two ~1 year old kids
<niko> what's wrong with floodbots ?
<Tm_T> they are not flooding
<Tm_T> bots, I mean
<bratizPirate> 474 #ubuntu You're banned from that channel
<bazhang> bratizPirate, yes that's right
<bratizPirate> can b unbaned plz??
<Pici> Why?
<bratizPirate> only bcoz nathan 71 said he waned to shank me
<bratizPirate> and then i said it for him
<bratizPirate> sorry
<Pici> What about the whole 'I leaked the iso to pirate bay' thing?
<bratizPirate> i tought it was cool
<Pici> bratizPirate: Even after being asked to stop and being removed from the channel?
<Pici> bratizPirate: Please take a look at our channel guidelines:
<Pici> !guidelines
<ubottu> The guidelines for using the Ubuntu channels can be found here: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines
<bratizPirate> its because of what nathan said
<bratizPirate> i wantd to provoke him
<bratizPirate> but i wont doit again
<bratizPirate> i think it was well rude that nathan cud say that and nothing happend to him but i got banned
<bratizPirate> not nice to say some1 that u wanna shank them
<Pici> bratizPirate: Both of you were asked to stop
<bratizPirate> he did 2 times... <nathan71> <---- stab again bratiz
<Pici> bratizPirate: What do you intend to do if you do get back into #ubuntu ?
<bratizPirate> i wont say more that i leaked it in pir8 b8 and i wont say nothin to nathan
<bratizPirate> only if he says somethign 2 me
<Pici> bratizPirate: I mean, the channel is only for support questions and answers, is that why you want to be in there?
<bratizPirate> yeah
<bratizPirate> i cna changed nick into bratiz
<bratiz> can i b unbanend plz?
<Pici> bratiz: Did you take a look at the guidelines that ubottu posted above
<Pici> (sorry, busy here at work too)
<bratiz> yeap i readed it
<Pici> bratiz: I've unbanned you, if you continue the same behavior from before you will find yourself outside the channel and we won't be so lenient the next time.
<bratiz> ok thanx
<mneptok> uhhhh .... "pirate bait?"
<bazhang> gburton, how may we assist you
<gburton> ahh, i was just curious. i shall exit the channel now...
<bazhang> <bratiz> how can i get cd key for ubuntu PRo?
<ubottu> FloodBot2 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit)
<ubottu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit)
<erUSUL> hi there; grub2 is confusing many people... has someone an idea or webpage for a quick factoid?
<Pici> !grub2
<ubottu> GRUB2 is the default Ubuntu boot manager in Karmic. For more information on GRUB2 please refer to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Grub2
<bazhang> the wiki looks pretty solid
<ubottu> In ubottu, erUSUL said: grub2 is To change the configuration of grub2 menu check the /etc/default/grub and /etc/grub.d/README files.
<erUSUL> oops did not know about that factoid
 * erUSUL should have checked
<bazhang> heh
<bazhang> I'm not getting into trouble over this one :)
<erUSUL> ciao
<ubottu> joaopinto called the ops in #ubuntu (derek_smart playing the troll)
<Mamarok> ok, off for tonight, somebody should watch #k, lot of people in there right now
<joaopinto> can someone ban derek_smart ? he is been trolling #ubuntu for quite some time
<Amaranth> joaopinto: He doesn't seem to be obviously doing anything wrong
<Amaranth> I'd say he is probably a troll but until he actually does something...
<joaopinto> Amaranth, did you read the part where h called jerks to those which explained that Karmic Koala is a release name ?
<joaopinto> he
<joaopinto> <derek_smart> im trying to help people and this big jerk keeps attacking me
<joaopinto> because he is insting that Karmic and Koala are different versions on trolish manners
<Take0n> I can't join #ubuntu and I don't know why :\
<Take0n> I got disconnected and after that I was unable to join..
<Amaranth> Take0n: checking
<Take0n> I got disconnected with read error 54 I think..
<Take0n> and now I get redirected to ubuntu-read-topic
<Amaranth> ah, exploit
<Amaranth> did you read the topic?
<Take0n> yeah
<Take0n> the thing is.. I don't have any router etc :\
<Amaranth> your modem counts
<Take0n> and what kind of exploit? where? and from who?
<Take0n> I have no modem either :P
<Take0n> and from nowhere?
<Amaranth> !exploit
<ubottu> There are people around who think it is funny to abuse a bug in certain routers by sending invalid DCC commands. When bitten by this bug ops in #ubuntu remove users so they are no longer targets. To fix it have a look here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FixDCCExploit
<Amaranth> Take0n: did you type "test me" in #ubuntu-read-topic?
<Take0n> yes
<Take0n> and I got disconnected :\
<Amaranth> ok, so you need to change what port you connect to
<Take0n> you mean 6667?
<Amaranth> you need to connect to freenode on port 8001
<Amaranth> then type "test me" in #ubuntu-read-topic again and it'll unban you automatically
<Take0n> but I want to understand why..
<Amaranth> Take0n: How do you connect to the internet?
<th1> can we have derek_smart banned pls? he is trolling in a very disruptive, persistent and annoying way
<joaopinto> th1, I already warned about that, Amaranth does not agree
<th1> ok..
<th1> just wanted to point it out ;) keep an eye on him
<Take0n> I live in sweden and they recently installed fiberoptic I think they are called.. internet connections so every house in stockholm (or most of the houses) have jacks (are they called jacks? connectors or something) on the wall so I plug the ethernet cable on the wall and then on my computer
<Amaranth> Take0n: Ok, did they put a box in your basement or outside the house or something?
<Take0n> There is a box on our appartment but I don't use routers etc.. I don't know if they have builtin router to give internet to every room
<Amaranth> Ok, that's it then
<Amaranth> The apartment building has a router, it has the bug
<Take0n> There are 2 Ext ports.. I am connecting through the first Ext1 (no router) the rest of the house are connected to a router which is connected on Ext2
<Take0n> and that router is a netgear
<Amaranth> Look, somewhere between you and your ISP there is a router with exploitable firmware
<Take0n> so I should contact my ISP providere
<Take0n> and tell them about this?
<Take0n> provider*
<Amaranth> The fact that you get disconnected with this exploit is all the proof you need
<Amaranth> Sure, maybe they can patch the firmware
<Amaranth> But for now you need to connect to freenode on port 8001 to get back into #ubuntu
<Take0n> do you know the command to get me disconnected?
<Amaranth> I do
<Take0n> I want to try it to be sure..
<Take0n> could you try it on me?
<Amaranth> Using it will probably get me klined
<Amaranth> just have the bots test you
<Take0n> how? if I type test me will it test it?
<Take0n> Amaranth, thanks :)
<Take0n> I will call them on monday to let them know
<Amaranth> Alright, cool
<Take0n> bye bye :)
<Amaranth> If the ISP fixes it your neighbors won't have to worry about it :)
<wsch> can someone talk to derek_smart ?
<wsch> in #ubuntu
<wsch> hes getting kindof annoying
<Amaranth> Done
<wsch> thank you
<derek_smart> request to unban me plz
<derek_smart> Amaranth: who banned me
<Amaranth> derek_smart: You were generally disruptive and somewhat offtopic and you were told about it a couple times
<Amaranth> You seem to not understand how #ubuntu works
<derek_smart> no i was making sure they understood swap some dude was saying that it should be small but its not true
<derek_smart> if they follow advice then hibernation doesnt work
<derek_smart> akin to rm -rf /
<Amaranth> ...
<derek_smart> check the logs
<Amaranth> 1) No, not true
<derek_smart> im not lying and i know u can check the logs
<Amaranth> 2) Never put that command in an IRC channel
<derek_smart> lol?
<Amaranth> You kept telling me about rendering hurd
<derek_smart> example
<derek_smart> yes i admit that is ot
<derek_smart> i have sources for the swap thing... kernel.org... if you want to ban until i get them thats ok
<derek_smart> ur call
<Amaranth> Essentially whenever I asked you to settle down you gave me a snarky reply
<derek_smart> if you explicitely said hey swap doesnt work that way, then yes, i did
<derek_smart> because i had to for the benefit of the users
<derek_smart> again pointless without my sources
<derek_smart> you tell me
<Amaranth> derek_smart: It depends on RAM usage
<derek_smart> and whats the idea
<derek_smart> hey dont max out your ram because i suggested that swap should be xyz?
<Amaranth> Hibernating drops all disk caches before writing RAM out to disk
<derek_smart> ram can be maxed out and the caches get paged out
<Amaranth> So right now I've got 2GB of RAM but would only need 768MB or so swap to hibernate
<derek_smart> whats more complicated
<Amaranth> Sure, it can be
<derek_smart> micromanaging ram for a new ubuntu user or hey, be safe, swap=ram or more...
<Amaranth> But it's not absolutely correct that swap needs to equal RAM for hibernate to work and this is what they were trying to tell you
<derek_smart> Amaranth: its the safest assumption because even implying that a common ubuntu user should be keeping tabs on their ram in order to properly hibernate is rediculous
<Amaranth> But I've had several people ask to have you removed from the channel for being disruptive so I'm not sure I want to let you back in right now
<derek_smart> if by being disruptive you mean talking about basic kernel behaviour then yea i was... i guess you dont want to read the log
<derek_smart> i was literaly explaining that
<Amaranth> I was in the channel at the time
<derek_smart> yes the odd hurd mention
<derek_smart> doesnt warrant a ban tbh
<derek_smart> i just wanna help out the community and i am PASSIONATE about it
<derek_smart> PASSIONATE
<Amaranth> You were talking about koala and karmic and a laptop specific install and how this was all hurd and you were rendering it and on and on
<Amaranth> Perhaps dial the passion down just a little and come back in 24 hours
<derek_smart> i was confused about the release system usually distros say stuff like 9.10 or whatever
<derek_smart> 24 hours jesus christ
<derek_smart> i jay walked and youre treating it like 3rd degree murder man
<Amaranth> You don't seem to understand the reason you were banned
<derek_smart> i do it was the hurd
<Amaranth> It doesn't matter if you were right, wrong, etc
<Amaranth> You were disruptive
<Amaranth> No, that was just the cherry on top
<derek_smart> it does because my advice, even while disruptive, kept some people from potentionally screwing hibernation
<derek_smart> sometimes you gotta prioritize
<ikonia> derek_smart: do you need anything else as it's been 20 minutes since the conversation ended
<ikonia> derek_smart: I can see you active in #gentoo and fedora can you please respond
<derek_smart> what
<derek_smart> im not banned anymore or what
<ikonia> ahhh thank you for responding
<ikonia> I believe you've been told to come back in 24 hours
<derek_smart> oh
<MenZa> ooh, elky day!
<ubottu> guntbert called the ops in #ubuntu (BLACK_MAN trolling)
<Seeker`> is there an "elky day" now?
<ubottu> In ubottu, guntbert said: !keyserver is <reply> The ubuntu key server is to be found at http://keyserver.ubuntu.com. If this one is unresponsive you can use most other gpg key servers as well - for instance http://pgp.mit.edu/
<th1> hey
<th1> ubottu seems to be dead
<ikonia> !ping
<ikonia> certainly responding slow
<th1> he didn't respond at all for several triggers in #u and pm
<ikonia> odd, if the host is having a problem she normally dies
<Seeker`> it usually either recovers by itself or dies totally
<th1> he's not even responding to ctcp ping
<th1> must be link-dead
<th1> or crashed
<Seeker`> if something is going slowly, prodding it even more won't help it recover any faster
<th1> usually a ctcp ping can be dealt with in a couple of ms ;)
<th1> even for perl
<jpds> It's python.
<ubottu> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<ubottu> pong!
<Seeker`> th1: still, prodding it more won't help
<th1> ok he's working again :)
<th1> thanks and see you later
<ubottu> erUSUL called the ops in #ubuntu (lenswipe|server)
<Bodsda> Assistance in #ubuntu please
<Bodsda> lenswipe|server is spamming the channel
<jpds> Watching.
<Bodsda> cheers jpds -- for your info. He has spammed several lines of ascii text images twice now
<ubottu> LjL called the ops in #ubuntu (lenswipe|s)
<jpds> Bodsda: He will be no more of a nuisance to you.
<Bodsda> thanks jpds, I appreciate it
<jpds> ;)
<Seeker`> heya elky
<Seeker`> how are you doing?
<elky_e71> pouting about being in hospital on my birthday
<Flannel> elky_e71: Could be worse!
<elky_e71> ?
<bazhang> Happy Birthday elky_e71 !!
<bazhang> we missed your presence at the release party
<ikonia> happy birthday elky_e71 - I'm sorry you're suffering in Hospital for it
<elky_e71> just asked how much longer... nobody knows. graaaaaaaagh
<bazhang> hope you get well asap elky_e71
<ubottu> Bodsda called the ops in #ubuntu (Wombleness)
<MenZa> Such a bad troll. :[---wait, elky_e71 is in hospital?!
 * MenZa rushes to blog, twitter, and facebook
<bazhang> MenZa, yep
<MenZa> What's she done now?!
<elky_e71> as far as i am concerned, i am well. These morons just have no chain of communication going on
 * MenZa hugs elky_e71 
<jpds> wombles got -devel too.
<bazhang> jpds, thanks have him in PM
<bazhang> now in -ot
<elky_e71> menza infectetd tooth
<ubottu> ZachK_ called the ops in #ubuntu (Wombleness)
<jpds> wut
<Flannel> sigh
<Flannel> last time I trust ZachK's judgement
<bazhang> he was muted and in PM..
<Flannel> Mmmm, it was a mute not a ban.
<Flannel> I know I'd need a +b go up
<Flannel> seen even, not need.
<bazhang> hehe
#ubuntu-ops 2009-10-31
<jpds> Diddleha - in devel, I has no access, kthx.
<ubottu> sistpoty called the ops in #ubuntu-devel ()
<jpds> ohai.
<sistpoty> hi ... I've done evil by talking to a troll (Diddleha on #ubuntu-devel)
<sistpoty> now he did take the invitation to troll on, even though repeatedly being asked by diverse people to not abuse #ubuntu-devel
<sistpoty> can you help, please?
<Flannel> sistpoty: It seems that no one with access is online right now, I'll try and ping them
<sistpoty> thanks Flannel! :)
<Flannel> mneptok: ping
<Flannel> Oh, you already got the ping, nevermind
<sistpoty> (btw, /me did an exclamation mark ops already in #ubuntu-devel, no response so far, not too sure how your clever scripts will ping people ;))
<Flannel> nalioth: Can you take care of it?
<Flannel> thanks niko
<niko> yes, i just join
<jpds> niko: No, he clearly can't.
<ubottu> geofft called the ops in #ubuntu-devel ()
<niko> 3/71
<sistpoty> thanks a lot nalioth for taking care! :) (leaving ubuntu-ops knowing the situation is taken care of)
<mneptok> Flannel: pong
<Flannel> mneptok: Thanks, other people took care of it
<D3RGPS31> bazhang: now what :D
<bazhang> D3RGPS31, hang on a second
<bazhang> D3RGPS31, have you read the code of conduct and guidelines
<bazhang> !coc | D3RGPS31
<ubottu> D3RGPS31: The Ubuntu Code of Conduct to which we ask all Ubuntu users to adhere can be found at http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct/
<bazhang> !guidelines | D3RGPS31
<ubottu> D3RGPS31: The guidelines for using the Ubuntu channels can be found here: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines
<D3RGPS31> bazhang: yes
<bazhang> D3RGPS31, are you aware why you were banned in #ubuntu ?
<D3RGPS31> bazhang: yes
<bazhang> D3RGPS31, and that was?
<D3RGPS31> bazhang: argueing with multiple ops on the release of 9.10
<bazhang> D3RGPS31, the operator who banned is ikonia ; you should speak to him (not certain he is around right now)
<Seeker`> I doubt he is, its late where he is
<bazhang> right
<D3RGPS31> >.>
<D3RGPS31> is there a chance my ban can be lift for afew hours
<Flannel> D3RGPS31: Why were you arguing with the operators?
<D3RGPS31> Flannel 9.10 released around 9:00 AM USA:EST my time, i spread the good word to #ubuntu-release-party, #ubuntu-social, and #ubuntu; some argued; i argued; more argued; i continued to argue, then i was banned
<Flannel> D3RGPS31: You were told a number of times in #ubuntu (and I imagine in -release-party as well) not to give links out until it's actually announced.  Why did you continue?
<gord> Seeker`: mesula in #ubuntu-uk... *sigh*
<Seeker`> time for him to leave?
<D3RGPS31> Flannel: 9:30 USA:EST (took my half an hour to download from the switz. server)
<Flannel> D3RGPS31: What?
<gord> Seeker`: it would be best for everyone involved, himself included
<gord> drunk ircing is not good for anyone
<D3RGPS31> o; why
<D3RGPS31> Flannel: hype; stopped after i read the messege
<Flannel> D3RGPS31: Which message?
<D3RGPS31> not to post links in chat
<Flannel> D3RGPS31: No, I'm actually looking at logs right now where you were told not to post the link, and then you continued to do so.
<D3RGPS31> didn't read the messege
<Flannel> D3RGPS31: Are you often in the habit of ignoring lines addressed to you in IRC?
<D3RGPS31> Flannel: just as often as when the soldier on adrenaline fires his gun without thinking
<Seeker`> is "vbg" a standard part of an ident string for any client?
<Seeker`> sorry, "vdg"
<Seeker`> gord: still around?
<gord> Seeker`: sure
<Flannel> D3RGPS31: Do you understand why it's important to not only pay attention to things you're told on IRC, but also to be aware of and respect the policies of the channels you're in?
<Flannel> D3RGPS31: I guarantee the topic of -release-party included a message about not posting links.
<Seeker`> mesula has gone offline. Turberry has just come into the channel, same ircname, same ident in the hostmask, different IP. Same person?
<Flannel> For instance
<Flannel> Seeker`: purple is pidgin, no.
<gord> Seeker`: yup
<Flannel> vdg may mean same person, but purple certainly doesn't
<Seeker`> purple is for the "real name"
<D3RGPS31> Flannel: you got me there, can't paraphrase that into something about war; but ofcourse i am, since i'm here making a plea
<Flannel> D3RGPS31: We need people to not post links before its released for a variety of reasons.  It makes release faster, it's safer for everyone, lots of people like to claim things are final before they actually are, etc.  We have plenty of good reasons to do so, even if you're not aware of all of them.
<Seeker`> deliberate ban evasion is k-line'able, no?
<Flannel> D3RGPS31: Are you willing to be better about ignoring things in the channel in the future?
<D3RGPS31> Flannel: 'ignoring things'?
<Flannel> D3RGPS31: You said you didn't read the line addressed to you about not posting links
<D3RGPS31> Flannel: ah, got you
<D3RGPS31> Flannel: quick question; there a link to the code of conduct and ircguidelines in georgian? can't quite understand everything
<Flannel> I'm not sure, but if you need clarification, I'd be happy to rephrase something for you
<D3RGPS31> Flannel: never mind; i got it :3
<D3RGPS31> Flannel: i'll do my best to read all addressed messages to me
<Flannel> And follow the guidelines?
<D3RGPS31> Flannel: i'll follow them to the best of my understand :3
<Flannel> D3RGPS31: Don't be shy about asking for clarification
<D3RGPS31> Flannel: it took me afew moments to get the sarcasm of *Don't use public away messages*
<Flannel> There's no sarcasm there.
<D3RGPS31> Flannel: 'Imagine 600 people doing that.' :o
<Flannel> 600?  Try 1600!
<D3RGPS31> Flannel: sarcasm? xD
<Flannel> D3RGPS31: Alright, I've gone ahead and removed your ban in #ubuntu.  Have a good time, hopefully we won't see you in here for ban resolution again in the future :)
<D3RGPS31> Flannel: praise be with you :3
<MenZa> elky: fun.
<Seeker`> Flannel: turberry1 is turberry/mesula, who was banned this evening from -uk
<Flannel> yeah, I noticed
<gord> Seeker`: am keeping an eye on him
 * MenZa keeps his eyes on gord 
<bazhang> heh
 * Seeker` keeps his gords on Flannel 
<MenZa> O_O
 * gord keeps his moose, loose, aboot this hooose
<MenZa> #u so busy :(
<MenZa> yay, bazhang to the rescue!
<bazhang> its fine to be stupid?
<MenZa> Is it just me or is ewb pretty unhelpful?
<MenZa> bazhang?
<bazhang> MenZa, ewb's comment
<bazhang> very unhelpful
<MenZa> huh?
<MenZa> indeed
<bazhang> wanhouse is diddleha
<bazhang> diddleha back as dengha
<MenZa> We should probably update !grub
<elky> MenZa, to what?
<MenZa> !grub
<ubottu> GRUB is the default Ubuntu boot manager. Lost GRUB after installing Windows? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestoreGrub - GRUB how-tos: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GrubHowto
<MenZa> Something about legacy vs. grub2
<elky> !grub2
<ubottu> GRUB2 is the default Ubuntu boot manager in Karmic. For more information on GRUB2 please refer to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Grub2
<elky> !grub
<ubottu> GRUB is the default Ubuntu boot manager. Lost GRUB after installing Windows? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestoreGrub - GRUB how-tos: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GrubHowto
<MenZa> So !grub is =~ sed/is the default Ubuntu boot manager/was the default boot manager in Ubuntu until 9.04/
<MenZa> Or so.
<MenZa> And perhaps add 'For Karmic, please see !grub2
<elky> !grub
<ubottu> grub is the default Ubuntu boot manager. Lost GRUB after installing Windows? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestoreGrub - GRUB how-tos: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GrubHowto - See also !grub2 for karmic onwards.
<elky> helps if i remember the "no" bit.
<MenZa> heh
<MenZa> The problem with the first couple of links is that they are for legacy, and most people are silly and dont read ahead. :[
<elky> !grub
<ubottu> grub is the default Ubuntu boot manager for releases before Karmic (9.10). Lost GRUB after installing Windows? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestoreGrub - GRUB how-tos: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GrubHowto - See !grub2 for karmic onwards.
<MenZa> \o/
<elky> that better?
<MenZa> indeed. :)
<MenZa> oh, and happy elky day.
<elky> whee!
<elky> between hospital and work, not so happy. at least i'm out now and i can say "was in hospital" not "am in hospital" when my parents ring tonight, which should avoid them landing on my doorstep on the morrow
<MenZa> hehehe
<bazhang> nice :)
<elky> also, aforementioned phone conversation will commence with "if you start to lecture me, i will hang up", and will probably still conclude with me hanging up.
<elky> also, i have bruises. i'm hard to bruise, but dammit needles do a good job
<MenZa> lol
<MenZa> elky: You should see my right arm when they try to draw blood from that.
<ubottu> FloodBot3 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join)
<ubottu> FloodBot2 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join)
<ubottu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join)
<ubottu> PartyBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join)
<elky> MenZa, i have a swollen welt/bruise on my right arm from where stupid pathologist gave up looking for vein (read: didn't even try a heat pack) and jabbed the vein the canula was in, an inch above it. had to move the canula to other arm by that evening.
<nalioth> wow, partybot even gets into it  :P
<elky> ...?
<elky> i havent been in -rp this release, for obvious reasons
<elky> dont feel like it right now either
<nalioth> partybot called the ops
<KB1JWQ> Join / quit spam in #ubuntu
<KB1JWQ> Banned 200.217.170.90 so people could at least talk.
<KB1JWQ> And the floodbots are crapping themselves...
<nalioth> the mass join was in #ubuntu, that i saw
<mneptok> @hawk-06.bq4less.com should be watched by staff, IMO
<bazhang> what's the nick
<mneptok> "arelbqlar" when last seen
<nalioth> mneptok: i thought he got klined
<nalioth> yes, he did get klined
<mneptok> nalioth: you
<mneptok> bah
<mneptok> you'd know better than i
<nalioth> why are we watching him now?
<mneptok> he /join'ed just before the flood, and /part'ed just before the first mass /part
<KB1JWQ> Yeah, I didn't see him /nick to Lazarus or anything. :-)
<MenZa> elky: In the past two years, noone's been able to draw blood from my right arm - and I'm a blood donor :)
<elky> MenZa, tried heat packs and everything?
<MenZa> elky: they haven't, no
<MenZa> elky: but it's not a problem, they just tear up my left arm instead.
<elky> i used to be a blood donor, but when they started getting clots instead of blood, i gave up.
 * mneptok cannot donate blood. viral carrier.
 * jussi01 cant be a blood donor anymore...
<MenZa> :o
<MenZa> I haven't actually donated any blood yet, I've just had a number of tests taken
<MenZa> I signed up when I turned 18, shortly after I got glandular fever (six months quarantine), and a couple of months later, I had my appendix removed (another six months quarantine)
 * jussi01 had some strange sickness now they dont want my blood anymore
<Madpilot> pilots are discouraged from giving blood. which is fine by me, I'm highly needle-phobic...
<MenZa> good call, Madpilot
<jussi01> Madpilot: really? I hadnt heard that.
<MenZa> makes sense
<MenZa> what with how alert pilots need to be
<MenZa> altitudes and all that too.
<Madpilot> ya, hypoxia/altitude effects and loss of blood - not a good combination
 * jussi01 is part way to becoming a pilot
<Madpilot> even before I started flying I didn't give blood, I'm afraid. needles make me pass out...
<elky> MenZa, heat packs make your veins go skin-wards in an attempt to get rid of the excess heat they dont want.
<MenZa> I used to be terrible with needles. I'd go really faint and dizzy from them.
<MenZa> Then I was suspected of having diabetes, and had a craptonne of tests done.
<MenZa> Since then, no problem.
<elky> a good round of exercise can do the same
<MenZa> elky: yeah
<Madpilot> MenZa, familiarity breeds contempt, or something?
<MenZa> Madpilot: heh
<mneptok> i was hospitalized for 2 months at age 2 with spinal meningitis. that cured any needle phobia.
<Madpilot> I'm utterly gutless around needles, even seeing injections in video gets me ick'd right out
<MenZa> mneptok: owww.
<MenZa> Hello, bullgard4.
<MenZa> Can we help you?
<MenZa> Okay then.
<Madpilot> apparently not
<mneptok> MenZa: yeah. it was a stanky affair.
<Madpilot> jussi01, you a student pilot?
 * MenZa did VATSIM at one point.
<mneptok> at one point all the veins in my arm had collapsed, and they ended up drawing blood by cutting open my ankle.
<MenZa> owwww
<bazhang> oof
<jussi01> Madpilot: kinda, got 20 hours about 5 years ago got chronic fatigue (a short term version thank god) and stopped. when I got better, well... money....
<MenZa> I was mildly freaked out at having an IV tap placed in my hand when I had my appendectomy. May have just been because I'd almost just woken up, but it seemed to be less unpleasant than having a regular blood test done :)
<MenZa> I very barely felt it
<Madpilot> the 'well... money" part sounds far too familiar. been running into that for several years now trying to get flight training completed and be actually employable...
<mneptok> so i'm a perfect candidate for blood donorship, as needles and i have no quarrel. but my HSV1 with ocular herpetic keratitis pathology makes me an unsuitable donor
 * MenZa is 0+, they love him at the blood clinic.
<MenZa> well, bank.
<mneptok> i forget what type i am, and Google isn't helping.
<MenZa> (A|B|AB|0)(+|-)
<MenZa> :P
<bazhang> O-
<MenZa> bazhang needs to donate blood.
<MenZa> universal donor, man!
<elky> I'm A+
<MenZa> What a useless blood type!
<bazhang> thought I was the worst at getting blood though
<MenZa> Pretty common in Aus?
<elky> btw, i'm glad to see that the release announcement made it to The Fridge.</sarcasm>
<bazhang> heh
<MenZa> bazhang: Anyone can benefit from your blood :)
<MenZa> _anyone_
<elky> MenZa, well yeah. it's the most in-demand type, yet proportionally the least donated, because it's assumed so common.
<mneptok> MenZa: vampires say A+ is wintergreen flavored. very useful if you just had the AB+ with hot sauce.
<MenZa> elky: Well, A+/- and 0+/- could donate to it
<MenZa> elky: So that's not too bad
<MenZa> You're screwed if you're 0-
<MenZa> Well, probably not *screwed*, but it's the most selective type.
<elky> i believe dad is 0+
<bazhang> yep :/
<MenZa> bazhang: Oh, I assume they keep it stocked up and use it as a last resort :)
<bazhang> MenZa, like I trust the blood supply here :(
<Flannel> MenZa: (AB?|B|O)(+|-)
<Flannel> or I guess that latter could be [-+]
<MenZa> Flannel: I don't do regexes >(
<MenZa> >:(
<Flannel> and actually, rarities of blood is highly dependant on what continent/ethnicity you're on/around
<MenZa> certainly
<MenZa> I wrote a report about this once.
<Flannel> US is different than AUS, etc
<MenZa> Well, genetics. I touched upon the geographical issue with a pretty figure.
 * elky wonders why she's still at work, and goes home
<MenZa> :D
<Flannel> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_type#ABO_and_Rh_distribution_by_country
<Flannel> since, we're all very interested in quantitative data
<MenZa> mmmmm data
<MenZa> I believe I even included that table in my report
<MenZa> I did indeed!
<MenZa> http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/333917/08-02-05-report_blood_types.pdf <- For anyone mildly curious.
<ubottu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join)
<vox> mmm
<vox> dist-upgraded jaunty to karmic
<vox> broken.
<wgrant> vox: You didn't literally apt-get dist-upgrade, I hope.
<vox> well update-manager has never worked on this install, so i didnt have alot of choice
<wgrant> You could have used do-release-upgrade
<wgrant> dist-upgrades *will* break unless you really know what you are doing.
<vox> eh im not concerned
<vox> i was 85% sure it would break
<vox> was looking for an excuse to reinstall with ext4 anyway :P
<wgrant> Aha.
<jussi01> happy birthday elky. hope you feel better :)
<elky> much better than thursday
<elky> better even than i have for about a week now that i think of it, tbh
<elky> well, better than i have for *weeks* since all the tooth pain i was having is gone now too, and was probably the infection gearing up
<jussi01> elky: thats good. hope things continue to improve.
<vox> substantial trolling in #ubuntu
<bazhang> multiple
<vox> nod
<vox> sigh
<ikonia> I'll message bodsa
<bazhang> whoops poor bodsda
<bazhang> heh
<ikonia> done
<bazhang> psinetic seems to be pushing it on nicknames
<ikonia> yes
<ikonia> he's done this before
<ikonia> (not nicks but just pushed the limits)
<bazhang> true
<vox> he means well
<bazhang> not sure about that
<vox> i've spoken to him a few time in private
<bazhang> one on one he can be reasonable
<elky> one on one most -ot people can be reasonable. it's when we let them talk to each other that problems happen ;)
<bazhang> hehe
<bazhang> elky, +10
<vox> touche`
<ubottu> In #ubuntu, siva said: ubottu : the message is : "Package operation failed.  The installation or removal of a software package failed.  details : E:I wasnt able to locate file for the adobe-flashplugin package"
<jussi01> ubottu: tell siva about bot
<jussi01> Is there a Firefox search extension to search LP?
<bazhang> yes
<jussi01> bazhang: linkki?
<bazhang> just a second jussi01
<bazhang> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/8388?src=api
<bazhang> only English and German currently, will also do ubuntuforums and dozens other
<jussi01> bazhang: and thatll search LP? like bug and stuff?
<bazhang> just running it now jussi01 (odd, but had it in last release but cant find that one)
<bazhang> nope its different
<bazhang> its still pretty cool though, lots of sub-menus , but not directly what you were asking for jussi01
<ubottu> BlouBlou called the ops in #ubuntu (a_n_o_n_)
<BlouBlou> hey, a_n_o_n_  joined again in #ubuntu
<elky> thanks
<BlouBlou> no problem, ;)
<^Anonymous> HELLO!?
<^Anonymous> Why can't I talk un #ubuntu
<Seeker`> I suspect you were banned
<^Anonymous> ?
<^Anonymous> <^Anonymous> Hello?
<^Anonymous> #ubuntu Cannot send to channel
<^Anonymous> Whats this mean
<^Anonymous> Why sould I of been bannee
<^Anonymous> d
<^Anonymous> I was asking for help
<Seeker`> you were being annoying
<^Anonymous> I was? why?
<Seeker`> I have no idea why
<^Anonymous> Who told you that?
<Seeker`> I looked at the logs
<^Anonymous> Can you unban me?
<^Anonymous> they didnt awnser my question
<Seeker`> you were asked to stop what you were doing several times
<elky> ^Anonymous, PMing us until you discuss it further here is not going to help anything.
<^Anonymous> What was I doing wrong?
<^Anonymous> What kind of help is it if people ban me for asking?
<^Anonymous> Fine then.
<elky> drat.
<elky> impatient brat
<elky> i'm dist-upgrading, firefox isn't loading bantracker
<ubottu> phixxor called the ops in #ubuntu (Seeker`)
<vox> is it a full moon?
<elky> vox, this is relatively tame for just a few days after release
<vox> point
<bazhang> thought mdeonte was montel edwards bot
<ubottu> FloodBot3 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join)
<ubottu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join)
<ubottu> FloodBotK2 called the ops in #kubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join)
<ubottu> PartyBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join)
<jussi01> !sound-#kubuntu
<ubottu> If you're having problems with sound, first ensure ARTS is running, by going to K Menu -> System Settings -> Sound System and making sure "Enable the sound system" is checked. If that fails, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Sound - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SoundTroubleshooting - For playing audio files, see !Players and !MP3
<jussi01> ideas on fixing that?
<ryanakca> jussi01: I dunno. KMenu -> System Settings -> Multimedia just gives me a list of sound cards with Pulseaudio at the bottom of the list... maybe 's/first.*fails,//g' ?
<jussi01> ryanakca: we dont ship/use arts anymore
<ryanakca> jussi01: *nod*
<ryanakca> Hence my suggestion to remove that section of the blurb :)
<wsch> please check Dr_Willis his reply to me in #ubuntu
<bazhang> :/
<ubottu> In ubottu, erUSUL said: newgdm is <reply>Karmic's GDM has been totally rewritten so there is no (graphical) way yet to cahnge its theme and other options.
<ubottu> In #ubuntu-offtopic, LjL said: !intel =~ s/9.04 has/9.04 and 9.10 have/
<bazhang> mesula seems familiar
<ubottu> __mikem called the ops in #ubuntu-offtopic ()
<erUSUL> !newgdm
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about newgdm
<jpds> bazhang: Yes. He was banned a few days ago somewhere.
<Seeker`> where is/was mesula?
<ubottu> In ubottu, Jordan_U said: grub15 is Getting grub error 15 after upgrading to grub2? You probably forgot to mark a drive to install to during the upgrade, to get grub2 working follow: http://grub.enbug.org/Grub2LiveCdInstallGuide
<nalioth> FYI montel is back and bothering the #ubuntu-beginners folks
<Jordan_U> Could someone add !grub15 to ubottu? It's a problem I have been seeing a lot and googling "grub error 15" doesn't give any usefull information so people experiencing this problem are somewhat up the creek trying to solve it.
<Flannel> Uh... did ajavid do anything recently?
<Flannel> He's in the BT from june, but I just got a query from him seemingly randomly
<Jordan_U> Could someone add !grub15 to ubottu? It's a problem I have been seeing a lot and googling "grub error 15" doesn't give any usefull information so people experiencing this problem are somewhat up the creek trying to solve it.
<nalioth> Jordan_U: there is no need to repeat
<Flannel> Jordan_U: do you have a factoid suggestion for it?
<Flannel> Howdy guntbert, How can we help you today?
<guntbert> Hi, yesterday I made a proposal for a keyserver factoid - anything wrong with it?
<guntbert> Flannel: because sometimes the ubuntu keyserver is really unresponsive
<jrib> guntbert: care to repeat it?
<jrib> !keyserver
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about keyserver
<guntbert> jrib: In ubottu, guntbert said: !keyserver is <reply> The ubuntu key server is to be found at http://keyserver.ubuntu.com. If this one is unresponsive you can use most other gpg key servers as well - for instance http://pgp.mit.edu/
<jrib> !keyserver is <reply> The ubuntu key server is to be found at http://keyserver.ubuntu.com. If this one is unresponsive you can use most other gpg key servers as well - for instance http://pgp.mit.edu/
<ubottu> I'll remember that, jrib
<jrib> guntbert: thanks
<jrib> I've seen that issue crop up a few times
<guntbert> jrib: so did I :-)
<jrib> !keyserver
<ubottu> The ubuntu key server is to be found at http://keyserver.ubuntu.com. If this one is unresponsive you can use most other gpg key servers as well - for instance http://pgp.mit.edu/
<guntbert> bye - and thx for your support
<Flannel> Maybe should link to GnuPG wikipage as well
<Flannel> Mmmm, if the GPG wikipage wasn't so monolithic...
<Jordan_U__> Sorry, I'm having problems with my DSL connection so I didn't know if my first message came through
<Jordan_U__> Flannel: I sent a suggestion for !grub15 to ubottu, should I send it again?
<nalioth> Jordan_U__: no
<guntbert> ubottu seems to be either under heavy load or asleep :)
<ubottu> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<ubottu> In ubottu, buggyboy said: that is just the point it opens up the msttcorefontinstaller that searches for a file that can't be found anymore on any of the programed FTP sites ...
<bazhang> Sphinx_away, how can we help you
<Flannel> Howdy derek_smart, How can we help you today?
<derek_smart> i was banned yesterday for 24 hours at around 4 pm venezuelan time
<derek_smart> its 7:30 pm over here
<Flannel> derek_smart: alright, let me take a look
#ubuntu-ops 2009-11-01
<Sphinx_away> Hello, I just wanted to see what is happening here.
<Sphinx_away> bazhang: thanks for asking
<bazhang> Sphinx_away, ok. as per the topic though could you please part
<Flannel> Sphinx_away: We take care of operator related requests in the ubuntu channels.  In order to make our jobs easier, we do ask people don't idle/spectate here though.  Thank you for your understanding, we appreciate it.
<Flannel> derek_smart: Do you know why you were banned?
<derek_smart> yes i was being disruptive in the channel
<Flannel> derek_smart: And if you're unbanned, will you continue to be disruptive?
<derek_smart> never again
<Flannel> derek_smart: Have you read the IRC guidelines and the Code of Conduct?
<derek_smart> upon getting banned i skimmed over the two in order to prevent further displays of buffonery
<derek_smart> lest i get banned once again
<derek_smart> although i must admit that i dont know every entry by heart
<Flannel> derek_smart: Alright.  Take some time right now and actually read them, not just skim.
<Flannel> You really shouldn't accuse other people of not following the code of conduct if you haven't yourself read them.
<derek_smart> im having issues understanding the following
<derek_smart> "Members of every project come and go and Ubuntu is no different. When somebody leaves or disengages from the project, in whole or in part, we ask that they do so in a way that minimises disruption to the project."
<Flannel> derek_smart: What about that don't you understand?
<derek_smart> i am not part of a project so i assume it does not apply, unless the irc channel is considered a project
<derek_smart> is it?
<elky> that is more aimed at developers and team leaders than irc channel chatters
<elky> but it basically means "dont kick over sand castles and throw the toys out of the sand pit"
<elky> the way it refers to the irc channels would be like "dont be rude on your way out the door" kind of thing
<elky> that make sense? :)
<derek_smart> well ive read the code of conduct (COC) in its entirety. im considerably more apt (apt-get get-it?) for #ubuntu, or at least id like to think so
<Flannel> derek_smart: And the IRC guidelines?
<derek_smart> one more question -- is talk about The Hurd appreciated?
<derek_smart> oh i have overlooked the document in question, ill ammend this shortly
<Flannel> derek_smart: Hurd doesn't apply to Ubuntu support, so it would be offtopic in #ubuntu
<ubot3`> In #ubuntu-release-party, emma said: !no, isitout is <reply> Yes! And it's wonderful! Please try to use a torrent or a mirror to get your downloads. Torrents at http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/
<derek_smart> ok i guess my behaviour fits under attention grabbing
<derek_smart> im done reading it btw
<derek_smart> im ready to be reinstated (i kinda feel like the main guy in clockwork orange after rehabilitation)
<Flannel> derek_smart: Alright, I've removed your ban.
<derek_smart> most gracious
<derek_smart> ~~Cloud Of Smoke~~
<ubot3`> derek_smart: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<topyli> Sphinx_away, anything we can help you with?
<ubottu> derek_smart called the ops in #ubuntu-offtopic ()
<tsimpson> bot'll be back soon
<ubottu> In ubottu, rww said: !keyserver ~= s/keyserver.ubuntu.com/keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/
<wgrant> !keyserver
<ubottu> The ubuntu key server is to be found at http://keyserver.ubuntu.com. If this one is unresponsive you can use most other gpg key servers as well - for instance http://pgp.mit.edu/
<wgrant> +1
<wgrant> I recommend s/pgp.mit.edu/pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/ too
<mneptok> Sphinx_away: if you have no further business here, as per the /topic could you please /part ?
<mneptok> Sphinx_away: you were asked to do this almost 5 hours ago
<MenZa> mneptok: /remove?
<MenZa> mneptok: (also, good morning)
<MenZa> &w 77
<rww> Good day folks. The !keyserver factoid points to http://keyserver.ubuntu.com/ . This is not the correct URL, as the keyserver's web interface is on port 11371.
<ubottu> FireCrotch called the ops in #ubuntu-offtopic (mikeru)
<MenZa> Does mikeru have a history?
<MenZa> It sounds familiar.
<MenZa> rww: orly :o
<MenZa> !keyserver
<ubottu> The ubuntu key server is to be found at http://keyserver.ubuntu.com. If this one is unresponsive you can use most other gpg key servers as well - for instance http://pgp.mit.edu/
<MenZa> rww: I don't have bot access to change factoids, but I'll poke someone who does when they return :)
<rww> MenZa: thanks :)
<MenZa> rww: get your butt back to -ot
<Sphinx_away> Hello, I am sorry for being too long time yesterday here.
<Sphinx_away> I spent few hours on kubuntu channel and it seemed to me that the questions that incomming people had could be more easily answered if there was some FAQ ... with basic commands/recipes. I think that is so usual that there must be something. So is there some doc where basic users can find how to repair their grub, boot from live cd ...?
<Sphinx_away> I asked on kubuntu channed and was told to go here.
<Sphinx> The person who advised me to go here mentionned that ubuntu bot is not complex now to do this
<Sphinx> and btw, I was here for several hours, because I went to sleep and have not read your messages before that.
<mneptok> Sphinx: such things are better discussed in #ubuntu-irc
<Sphinx> Ah, okay, so what is this channel good for? I mean with what issues shold I go here?
<Sphinx> I do not get it clearly
<mneptok> Sphinx: and the Ubuntu wiki already provides most of what you suggest
<Sphinx> mneptok: it would be better if it could be automated by a bot
<mneptok> this channel is for problems and issues with IRC that require ops attention
<Sphinx> ah, okay
<Sphinx> then I get why I was kicked
<mneptok> !info digikam
<ubottu> digikam (source: digikam): digital photo management application for KDE. In component main, is optional. Version 2:1.0.0~beta5-1ubuntu1 (karmic), package size 8963 kB, installed size 30480 kB
<mneptok> !photos
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about photos
<mneptok> !mp3
<ubottu> For multimedia issues, this page has useful information: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats - See also https://help.ubuntu.com/9.04/musicvideophotos/C/video.html - But please use free formats if you can: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FreeFormats
<Sphinx> mneptok: yes, but try to get how to repair grub
<mneptok> !grub
<ubottu> grub is the default boot manager for Ubuntu releases before Karmic (9.10). Lost GRUB after installing Windows? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestoreGrub - GRUB how-tos: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GrubHowto - See !grub2 for Karmic onwards.
<Sphinx> which is quite freqent issue
<mneptok> !grub2
<ubottu> GRUB2 is the default Ubuntu boot manager in Karmic. For more information on GRUB2 please refer to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Grub2
<Sphinx> yes, those are projects, but not guidelines
<mneptok> uhhh
<mneptok> the links all point to wiki entries on how to use and repair grub
<Sphinx> mneptok: you know something like: Annonymous just enters the room ... Hi all, I need help, my kubuntu doesnot boot ...
<Sphinx> mneptok: it might be good idea to add links for basic things to bot
<mneptok> and a bot answers without specifically being asked a question? bad idea in a channel of 100+ people
<mneptok> or 1000+
<Sphinx> mneptok: yes, of course, but yesterday I spent there several hours and maybe 4 of 7 users I advised needed this kind of information
<mneptok> and you should refer them to the wiki pages with detailed instruction on how to repair grub just like the bot refers people to those pages
<MenZa> Sphinx: Invoke the bot 7 times, then.
<mneptok> !away > Sphinx
<ubottu> Sphinx, please see my private message
<mneptok> and there's something just for you ;)
<Sphinx> mneptok: yes, wouldn't it be good idea to use something like ubottu: grub-reparation: see http://
<Sphinx> mneptok: thanks
<mneptok> Sphinx: i fail to see how that's any better than the existing factoid
<MenZa> Sphinx: Give a man a fish and he'll be fed for the day. Teach a man to fish and he'll be fed for the rest of his life.
<MenZa> Sphinx: It gives new users a chance to dig through documentation to solve problems in the future.
<Sphinx> mneptok: it is an extension ... MenZa: yes I want to have just nicer table to teach the men
<MenZa> They might even learn something about other things than their specific issue they can use if they get a differerent error some other time.
<Sphinx> MenZa: well, yes that is what I talk about
<Sphinx> MenZa: it is easy to point them to wiki, but you have to repeat that every time so having some message that could contain description of error and point to several links would be nice and more handy to me
<Sphinx> not to people I advise to
<mneptok> Sphinx: you'd have to repeat that for every user, too
<Sphinx> It could contain also some information like: grub is ... to do ...
<Sphinx> mneptok: yes, but it would save my fingers
<MenZa> ubottu is not the "All-Knowing Ubuntu Encyclopedia"
<ubottu> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<MenZa> It's, among other things, a factoid tracker for common problems.
<mneptok> Sphinx: no one forces you to be on IRC, or to help people when you are.
<Sphinx> MenZa: no, I do not speak about major changes, just small improvements
<Sphinx> mneptok: sorry, bad verb, ... conserve ?
<mneptok> Sphinx: the bot's functionality has worked very well for a long time. and i think it falls under the "ain't broke, not fixing" umbrella
<Sphinx> mneptok:  I like to be here and try solve other peoples problem, I do not want to complain, just want to know whom address to with small improvement
<Sphinx> mneptok: ah, opk
<mneptok> Sphinx: spend some time learning how to use what is already there
<Sphinx> mneptok: where to find intro/guide ..?
<Sphinx> guidelines?
<mneptok> Sphinx: watch on #ubuntu
<bazhang> http://ubottu.com/factoids.cgi Sphinx
<mneptok> Sphinx: many people use the bot every day
<Sphinx> mneptok: yes, I know
<Sphinx> however if it is not improved time to time, what will happen with it
<Sphinx> nevertheless, I get the state
<Sphinx> thanks for links and intro to ubuntu channels :-)
<mneptok> np. enjoy your time on IRC.
<mneptok> and with that, it's bedtime
 * Gary tucks mneptok in
 * mneptok goes to dream of carnivorous toilets trampling a mesozoic landscape
<mneptok> oh, and a nude Gary pole-vaulting over megalodons while whistling Lloyd-Webber tunes
<mneptok> (i have an .... interesting ... fantasy life)
<Gary> only fantasy?
<mneptok> Gary: until you can pole-vault the Atlantic, yes :(
<jussi01> ubottu: ping
<ubottu> pong!
<jussi01> ubot3:  ping
<ubot3> pong!
<MasterJimmy> hey guys, i deserve to offer you all an apology. I'm a Christian, and I've been acting, well....utterly horrible since i've been on these IRC rooms. I don't curse in real life, and i certainly don't say and talk about the things i have here in real life. I sincerely apologize for my actions. Maybe you don't see it as being a bad thing, but for me, I'm showing you a bad name for those who are christians. I apologize.
<MasterJimmy> this is Psinetic btw
<MasterJimmy> just thought i'd toss that in there. a simple "i'm sorry" isn't good enough. catch you guys later.
<bazhang> interesting
<elky> if i s/christian/human/ then it does make sense.
<ubottu> llutz called the ops in #ubuntu (DJ_eRi spamming)
<jussi01> ubottu: join #ubuntu-release-party
<ubottu> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<ubottu> In ubottu, jussi01 said: !unforget isitout-#ubuntu-release-party
<jussi01> arrgh
<jussi01> @login
<ubottu> The operation succeeded.
<jussi01> nalioth: can you make sure ubot3 syncs factoids soon?
<nhandler> Just out of curiosity, when are you guys planning on removing the forward on #ubuntu+1 ?
<ubottu> In ubottu, Pici said: repeat =~ s/  / /
<Pici> @login
<ubottu> The operation succeeded.
<ubottu> In #ubuntuforums, kevdog said: ubottu -- now that one is famous as well :P
<ubottu> DrDerek called the ops in #ubuntu-offtopic (Psinetic)
<jussi01> nhandler: usually alpha 1.
<Pici> or just before it
<ubottu> PartyBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join)
<ubottu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (clone flood)
<ubottu> FloodBot2 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (clone flood)
<Psinetic> someone please explain to me why the mod warns me and i get kicked right after...
<Psinetic> <h00k> !stop | Psinetic
<Psinetic> <ubottu> Psinetic: NOTICE - Please stop NOW. This conversation is making someone uncomfortable. Continuing may result in action being taken. You have been warned. Please /msg ubottu o4o for the rules of #ubuntu-offtopic.
<Psinetic> * ChanServ gives channel operator status to Seeker`
<Psinetic> * You have been kicked from #ubuntu-offtopic by Seeker` (come back when you have calmed down)
<Psinetic> * Now talking on #ubuntu-offtopic
<Psinetic> since when do people warn and then kick side by side?
<nalioth> Psinetic: h00k is not a mod
<Psinetic> does it matter?
<Psinetic> it was a warning was it not?
<nalioth> evidently you are past the 'warning point'
<Psinetic> i don't see how.
<Psinetic> i was going to stop when i saw that
<Psinetic> then i got kicked
<Seeker`> why didn't you stop after you were asked to stop the previous time?
<Psinetic> because i was asking why saying the word "fag" was such a big deal.
<Psinetic> that's why
<nalioth> you shouldn't have to wait for a warning to be decent
<Seeker`> or do we have to ask you not to use each and every insult individually
<Psinetic> seriously, what's up with this being so liberal?
<Seeker`> again, what do you mean by "liberal"?
<Seeker`> you keep using that word, I don't think it means what you think it means
<Psinetic> i mean i'm not even doing anything major and everyone flips out and gets their panties in a wad at the smallest things
<Flannel> Psinetic: You started out poorly with the "fags should die"
<Seeker`> the rules of the channel are clearly stated
<Seeker`> as far as I am aware, noone is forcing you to chat in that channel
<Psinetic> more like stated generally so that the mods and admins can pretty much do whatever they want
<Seeker`> and I don't think that the equivalent of "please please help me you jerks" has ever been a good way of asking for help
<Psinetic> since you quoted that, i want to see the quote directly from the channel
<Psinetic> i didn't say that
<Psinetic> don't put words in my mouth
<Seeker`> I wasn't quoting you
<Seeker`> i said "the equivalent of"
<Psinetic> w/e you say
<Seeker`> but, since you asked
<Seeker`> -19:59:18- :Psinetic : maybe if people weren't a bunch of jerks i'd be fine.
<Psinetic> i know i said that. it was a response to someone else
<Psinetic> not related to my question at all
<Psinetic> so again, don't put words in my mouth please
<Seeker`> again, i said that you said _the equivalent of_ that. You called everyone jerks, and I really hope you won't try to argue that you weren't asking for help
<Psinetic> how about you guys give me a list of words i shouldn't use instead of just saying "don't say that!!!!!" every five freaking seconds. i say something and you freak out and some idiot calls ops on me for no darn reason.
<Psinetic> you say, " be nice to everyone and make a family oriented" but honestly my family isn't your family and i have no idea what's going to tick you off
<Seeker`> ok, is calling someone a jerk nice?
<Seeker`> is calling some a fag nice?
<Seeker`> is calling someone a retard nice?
<Psinetic> i didn't call anyone a retard
<Psinetic> and i was displaying my frustration with my ISP, not anyone in the channel was called a fag
<Seeker`> no, you said you had to talk like a retard to be accepted in the channel
<Psinetic> and i called people jerks because that's how they were treating me from my perspective
<Psinetic> and i do have to talk like a retard to be accepted in the channel
<nalioth> is wishing death on someone nice?
<Seeker`> no, you just have to stop insulting people
<nalioth> Psinetic: we ask everyone to be civil
<Psinetic> overly civil
<Seeker`> I dont think anything we can say will change your mind?
<Psinetic> i don't think you were right to have kicked me from the channel. period.
<nalioth> Psinetic: and is there a problem with too much civility?
<Psinetic> yes there is. it's a point when you go to a private chat and tell me to stop or i'll be booted and trying to control my every move
<nalioth> we shouldn't have to tell anyone how to be civil
<Psinetic> so i should just copy you and make myself you is that it? apparently i don't know how to be civil, how about you inform me.
<nalioth> how about you take a break from #ubuntu-offtopic for a day?
<Psinetic> like that's going to change anything
<Seeker`> come back when you feel its been long enough for something to have changed?
<Psinetic> what's going to change? really? i come into a channel to ask a question and in the process express how frustrated i am about the problem and someone calls ops on me and next thing i know i get booted the very second after i get a warning.
<Seeker`> you were warned before that
<Seeker`> just after the first expression of "how frustrated" you were
<nalioth> Psinetic: please come back in 24h
<Psinetic> what's that going to do?
<Psinetic> really i pretty much did stop when i was first warned
<Psinetic> people kept edging me on
<Psinetic> read it again
<Psinetic> i just did
<nalioth> 1257099957 12:25 < Psinetic> people kept edging me on  <--- this isn't "surrogates" or "gamer".  YOU are responsible for your own actions
<Psinetic> i was replying to their comments
<nalioth> inappropriately, it seems
<nalioth> come back and see us in 24h, please
<Psinetic> why?
<Psinetic> i don't understand why everytime i cross my toes wrong someone just up and kicks me from the stupid channel
<Seeker`> I'm not sure what the point of the conversation is any mor
<Psinetic> the point is: NEXT TIME YOU GOT A PROBLEM WITH SOMEONE TRY TO HANDLE IT IN PRIVATE CONVO, DON'T JUST UP AND KICK ME.
<Psinetic> there, that settle it?
<jussi01> Psinetic: its obvious to me that a private conversation wouldnt have helped, given the backlog of this channel.
<Psinetic> all he had to do was tell me to stop
<Psinetic> and i would've stopped
<jussi01> Psinetic: the reason we remove people from the channel is to lessen the disturbance created. Usually this means we add a forward to here so we can chat to the user, having a similar effect.
<Psinetic> yeah i joined this channel on my own because i was pissed off that that's the action seeker chose was just to up and kick me
<topyli> jussi01, Psinetic is not banned, he's just here to discuss the policy of the pub
<jussi01> topyli: Ive been told, thanks
<Psinetic> well. thanks for the helps guys. have a good night, i'm certainly not gonna sleep tonight.
<Mamarok> !staff
<ubottu> Hey nalioth, jenda, rob, SportChick, seanw, Dave2, Christel, tomaw, Gary, Vorian, PriceChild, niko or stew, I could use a bit of your time :)
<Mamarok> what's going on?
<jrib> Mamarok: excellent question
<Pricey> Mamarok: aware, dealing
<Mamarok> Pricey: thx, it's in all freenode apparently, #amarok, etc.
<Amaranth> eep, chanserv down
 * Amaranth waits for floods
<Seeker`> what does it mean "nick collision from syn"?
<Amaranth> Seeker`: it means something bad happened
<Amaranth> *shrug*
<Mamarok> maybe somebody made a typo and klined a node...
<Mamarok> I mean, a typo cut off Sweden from the internet for a whole day, didn't it?
<Mamarok> :)
<Amaranth> hehe, nickserv fail
<Pricey> 19:53:35 <+~christel> rwg|desktop: the timeprint should inform you that its a kline from february, predating syn -- we're trying to work out why she went  insane now or why she thinks we all match it
<Mamarok> 19:53:35 <+~christel> rwg|desktop: the timeprint should inform you that its a kline from february, predating syn -- we're trying to work out why she went insane now or why she thinks we all match it
<Mamarok> what the?
<Guest31767> anyone want to paste it a third time
<Guest31767> :P
<Pricey> Guest31767: you're just tempting me there
<Amaranth> 19:53:35 <+~christel> rwg|desktop: the timeprint should inform you that its a kline from february, predating syn -- we're trying to work out why she went insane now or why she thinks we all match it
<Amaranth> sure, why not?
<Mamarok> :)
<Guest31767> cool, thanks
<Guest31767> had problems reading it the first two times
<Guest31767> that just made it extra clear
<nhandler> jussi01 / Pici: Might I suggest opening it up sooner? There is no technical reason not to do so. And technically, once the lucid repos open up, people can "upgrade". There is already a forum on ubuntuforums.org open, and discussion is already underway
<ikonia> nhandler: seems a reasonable request, I always wish it was open a bit later as it stops silly people joining and asking to upgrade with no-understanding of the consiquences
<nalioth> when are the brakes engaging on #ubuntu-release-party ?
<ikonia> nalioth: as soon as you want from my point of view
<LjL> just to make you aware there's in excess of 200 in -unregged, i guess because the bots restored +J after the bot killae without anyone noticing
<nhandler> ikonia: I have to disagree with you. I would much rather have a person join #ubuntu+1 and have the reasons for not upgrading to lucid at this time explained to them than not provide them with a place to ask their questions and have them just upgrade.
<Amaranth> aww, I was enjoying the silence
<Amaranth> Seriously though, I've always been for opening the channel sooner
<Amaranth> Although this time the lucid repos have existed since release day so that's not a good marker
<nalioth> nhandler: at this stage "just upgrading" is a pretty high-level exercise
<Pici> I think most people will just try to use #u+1 for support of karmic/jaunty.
<Pici> I think we should also close #u-r-p today or tomorrow
<nalioth> at this time, you are probably correct, Pici (support for current Ubuntu)
<nhandler> nalioth: I wouldn't call it a "high-level exercise". At least in the past, once the toolchain is uploaded, threads on the forums usually start popping up where people explain how you can simply s/karmic/lucid/g in /etc/apt/sources.list to upgrade to lucid. However, I'll leave the decision up to you guys
#ubuntu-ops 2010-11-01
<IdleOne> Would be nice if ubottu could /msg me about users who I have set a @mark on
<IdleOne> when they join the channel that is
<Seeker`> who is Ayrton AraÃºjo and how do you "participate passively" in something?
<IdleOne> not sure who that is but I suspect they would like to attend to observe
<IdleOne> Seeker`: and unless by some magical occurrence I have something to do. I will be there.
<IdleOne> ahh it's easter_egg
<Seeker`> no idea who that is
<IdleOne> he is part of the ubuntu-br team
<IdleOne> and ubuntu member
<maco> what the heck is going on in #ubuntu
<maco> there are 3 users going on about how su is better than sudo and talking about sudo passwd and stuff
<maco> and swearing
<bazhang>  mooly (~mooly@jewsare.evilfuckerz.org    that should be a ban based on the host alone, yes?
<maco> ew yes
<maco> sorry i didnt see that
<bazhang> metaphaze seems to be trolling as well
<maco> which is what i was saying an hour and 15 minutes ago...
<bazhang> he should be PM'd and if no response then quieted and/or removed
<maco> im headint to bed
<bazhang> I'm about to have lunch
<bazhang> MetaPhaze, you were asked repeatedly to stay on topic
<MetaPhaze> muted on #ubuntu even though I helped everyone who came in. May not have been nice since everyone is an experty yet can't help me....still know how to make dep, make clean, make a new kernel
<MetaPhaze> bazhang, whats the topic, sports? pop cultute?
<MetaPhaze> mute me i dont care
<bazhang> MetaPhaze, you were constantly being off topic
<MetaPhaze> whats the topic
<bazhang> ubuntu support only
<bazhang> recommending debian, and ranting about how bad Ubuntu is are not part of that
<MetaPhaze> well i sure as shit supported linux
<MetaPhaze> maybe not ubuntu which wont freaking work
<MetaPhaze> i didnt say ubuntu sucks
<MetaPhaze> just saying it wont work for me
<bazhang> ##linux would be a more suitable place for you then
<MetaPhaze> yeah sounds goood
<MetaPhaze> but i dont wanna fuss with ./nickserv reg
<MetaPhaze> shoot bazhang i helped so many users lol
<bazhang> MetaPhaze, I saw none of that. just telling them to use debian instead.
<MetaPhaze> look before that
<MetaPhaze> lol im not a shit starter some asked me for help, i provided help
<bazhang> MetaPhaze, there is not a karma system even if you did help a single person
<MetaPhaze> i dont mind being banned, just have good cause
<MetaPhaze> ok fine, keep me banne
<bazhang> MetaPhaze, you were constantly off topic and asked repeatedly to stop.
<MetaPhaze> you want my hostname so you can perma ban me?
<MetaPhaze> ok fine, you want my hostname so you can perma ban me?
<MetaPhaze> #ubuntu is a joke, a bunch of wannabes answering questions
<MetaPhaze> at least I answered LINUX questions that don't pertain to distro
<bazhang> then no need for you to come back
<MetaPhaze> right on bro
<MetaPhaze> ban me, then help me with my ubuntu issues
<MetaPhaze> lol i seriously don't care
<bazhang> it's not a linux channel, but Ubuntu only. thus the suggestion for ##linux for you
<MetaPhaze> my issues are ubuntu
<MetaPhaze> not linux in general ;)
<bazhang> you've clearly not understood the line between support and random chit chat
<MetaPhaze> #ubuntu seems pretty random
<MetaPhaze> why is "How do I use grep" pertain to ubuntu
<MetaPhaze> that is pretty generic to linux?
<MetaPhaze> and shouldnt even be hassled with in a support chan
<MetaPhaze> buy a book
<bazhang> clearly you have not read the code of conduct nor channel guidelines that I sent you via PM
<MetaPhaze> I dont have one PM from you on IRC
<MetaPhaze> you want a screen shot?
<MetaPhaze> exactly
<bazhang> odd. I have a PM window with you open right now.
<MetaPhaze> i didnt get it, look ive been trying to help users
<MetaPhaze> because i need help, no one can help me
<bazhang> at any rate, judging by your general attitude, I see no reason to allow you to continue the random chat
<MetaPhaze> what do you want me to do
<MetaPhaze> bazhang, you already banned me, w/e dude
<MetaPhaze> it doesnt make me sad
<bazhang> merely muted
<MetaPhaze> :\
<MetaPhaze> lol i dont care
<MetaPhaze> ive been muted from a chan where no one can help ME
<MetaPhaze> can someone help me here?
<bazhang> okay then, nothing to discuss here.
<MetaPhaze> o0h no we have plenty to discuss
<MetaPhaze> I need help :D
<bazhang> this is not a support channel, so no.
<MetaPhaze> PING! PONG! i got your msg
<MetaPhaze> looks like your full of bologna
<MetaPhaze> i was muted before given a chance
<MetaPhaze> "<bazhang> hi
<MetaPhaze> <bazhang> you are currently muted.
<MetaPhaze> <bazhang> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct/
<MetaPhaze> <bazhang> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines
<MetaPhaze> <bazhang> read those should you wish that to change"
<MetaPhaze> ohhhhhhhhhhhh shit
<MetaPhaze> no chance
<MetaPhaze> w/e dude
<MetaPhaze> you dont scare me, anyone here understand creating driver_ID for Marvell SATA drives?
<bazhang> you were asked multiple times by multiple users to stay on topic, yet continued nonetheless
<MetaPhaze> none ... the ... less
<MetaPhaze> I resolved a lot of users issues
<MetaPhaze> Linux = Linux
<MetaPhaze> dont care about distro
<bazhang> none that I saw.
<MetaPhaze> one user asked me about using debian
<MetaPhaze> lol its in the logs
<MetaPhaze> want more?
<bazhang> no need.
<MetaPhaze> look dude seriously i dont care
<MetaPhaze> im not 10 years old
<bazhang> MetaPhaze, please part the channel then.
<MetaPhaze> ok enough is enouggh you got me out of the CHAN help me with my issues?
<MetaPhaze> You want me to part? Nah, i want bazhang who is an expert to help me resolve my issues
<MetaPhaze> I'm wrong in my suggestions/comments
<MetaPhaze> I need an expert like you bazhang to help me resolve my issues
<MetaPhaze> where you at bazhang you got any ideas?
<MetaPhaze> loves to help
<bazhang> MetaPhaze, this channel is for moving issues forward in respect to mutes/bans and such issues, again not a support channel
<bazhang> MetaPhaze, you see nothing wrong with your behavior in #ubuntu and will not alter it nor read the code of conduct nor guidelines pertaining to the channel.
<MetaPhaze> well bazhang being such a great OP knowing how to resolve issues, can you PLEASE tell me where I can present my issues to Ubuntu 10.10 with Marvell adapters, with user owned driver_id resources  Because I am sure that is important to the dev team. Way more important then frick and frack in an IRC chan...
<MetaPhaze> I see my behavior now as WRONG in the IRC chan...When you brought it up in to the OPS chan, before that, I can only see myself as helpful
<MetaPhaze> resolved, shit, i dont know at least a 100 ~usr
<MetaPhaze> look dude, if you want the power trip keep it, ban me I dont care...just point me in the DIR where someone can help me
<bazhang> MetaPhaze, you were asked repeatedly to stop swearing, remain on topic and you continually ignored those entreaties.
<MetaPhaze> c'mon now bazhang I said I was sorry, and corrected my language. I understand #ubuntu is a family friendly
<MetaPhaze> dude keep your power trip i dont care
<MetaPhaze> just point me in the DIR of someone who knows what they are doing, instead of a 14 yearold kid with some +OP
<MetaPhaze> LOL i dont care dude
<bazhang> MetaPhaze, I suggest you read the documents linked above and come back in 24 hours to discuss.
<MetaPhaze> blah blah blah
<MetaPhaze> ban me from #ubuntu
<MetaPhaze> I dont think you can, I think you can only mute me
<MetaPhaze> I wrote my own device drivers
<bazhang> MetaPhaze, there is nothing further to discuss at this time, as you seem unwilling to take the necessary steps to move this forward.
<MetaPhaze> you can get me in touch with someone who knows WTF is going on besides being an IRC Chat OP LOL
<bazhang> MetaPhaze, please part the channel and return when or if you are willing to move this forward.
<MetaPhaze> Love to move it forward, since you sugggest, who is your SUPERVISOR
<MetaPhaze> ?
<MetaPhaze> im willing to play by the rules
<MetaPhaze> :)
<MetaPhaze> Love helping folks
<bazhang> MetaPhaze, then read the linked documents and return in 24 hours time to discuss.
<MetaPhaze> bazhang, you must have a supervisor since you can't ban me from #ubuntu, let me discuss this with him/her?
<bazhang> !appeals | MetaPhaze
<ubottu> MetaPhaze: If you disagree with a decision by an operator, please first pay #ubuntu-ops a visit. If you are still unhappy, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/AppealProcess for the steps you should take. If you feel the need to discuss the channel rules, please contact the ops on IRC or via the email address on the aforementioned page.
<MetaPhaze> Since I have NOT done any ill to the Ubuntu distro, just making suggestions to resolve issues
<MetaPhaze> Ok bazhang has issues a !appeals for | Metahaze
<MetaPhaze> love to appeal it now
<bazhang> MetaPhaze, then check the link and contact the email listed therein
<MetaPhaze> look bazhang im not creating a problem for anyone
<MetaPhaze> I was helping with universal Linux help
<MetaPhaze> getting banned for explaining how to do something under *ANY* distro is a joke
<MetaPhaze> if you dont want me in ubuntu fine...
<MetaPhaze> just say so
<MetaPhaze> Im not a jackoff, I dont mind helping
<MetaPhaze> My experience comes from CLI way before Ubuntu was even thought of
<bazhang> MetaPhaze, you feel unhappy with an operators decision and wish to appeal. the first step, which was discussing here, is through. I suggest you follow the next step in your appeal process.
<MetaPhaze> bazhang, not that important to me, good luck to you, appreciate all you do to help other users
<MetaPhaze> OPS in this chan, Im sure everyone in the #ubuntu , #ubntu-offtopic appreciate it
<MetaPhaze> sorrying for being so crass
<MetaPhaze> bazhang, I just hope I can idle in your #ubuntu chan so I can PM users to help them
<MetaPhaze> bazhang, can you please tell me how I can move to the next step to appeal a mute?
<MetaPhaze> Apparently all the Private MSG's I am getting from #ubuntu for help isn't enough...
<MetaPhaze> bazhang, can you please tell me how to to esclate this to the next step?
<bazhang> MetaPhaze, I have. PM'ing users in #ubuntu randomly is not acceptable. I had hoped we could resolve a simple mute here, but you wish not to read any of the appropriate documentation nor alter your behavior in #ubuntu .
<MetaPhaze> bazhang, I don't PM anyone randomly
<MetaPhaze> Just show me a link where I can read how to object to your mute
<MetaPhaze> lol
<MetaPhaze> ChanServ gives channel operator status to bazhang
<MetaPhaze> * You have left channel #ubuntu (requested by bazhang (Goodbye))
<MetaPhaze> i dont need to help anyone else
<bazhang> MetaPhaze, should you wish to move this forward, you can access the appeals link; that will take considerably more time than simply reading the appropriate documents and coming back here in 48 hours to discuss again
<MetaPhaze> bazhang, sounds good, can you PLEASE link me to the appropriate documents?
<bazhang> MetaPhaze, yes, as you have said you wish to PM people randomly in #ubuntu to offer suggestions I felt it was appropriate to switch your mute to a straight ban.
<MetaPhaze> I understand how you feel, can you please link me to appropriate artbiration documents?
<bazhang> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/AppealProcess  MetaPhaze
<MetaPhaze> Thank you bazhang have a wonderful evning, and a spooky Halloween
<bazhang> MetaPhaze, please don't idle in this channel, as per the topic.
<bazhang> MetaPhaze03, ?
<MetaPhaze03> I enjoyed your company too bazhang
<bazhang> MetaPhaze03, please dont idle here.
<MetaPhaze03> idles
<bazhang> ?
<MetaPhaze03> bazhang, I thought we were friends trying to accomplish the same goal
<MetaPhaze03> got ubuntu on my netbook, I thought we were going to get it installed on my desktop
<bazhang> MetaPhaze03, this is not a support channel. please read the /topic.
<MetaPhaze03> oh sorry, just thought since you were an OP you wanted to help...
<MetaPhaze03> didn't realize OPs here were just for bragging rights ;)
<bazhang> he's PMing random users saying he was banned simply for mentioning debian
<alabd> Good day all , would someone get my user out of ban ?
<alabd> in #ubuntu
<alabd> it's about some month and now i-humble want to upgrade kernel and need support
<alabd> ?
<Tm_T> alabd: hi, as here seems to be noone who has possibility to deal this matter, I would kindly ask you to return in few hours in hope we have more active ops
<Tm_T> hi keesm0, how can we help you?
<alabd> Tm_T thanks , for noe where can i-humble ask question about how to upgrade 9.04 kernel?
<Tm_T> forums?
<alabd> irc
<alabd> mean
<Tm_T> sorry, no idea
<jpds> Hmm.
<ikonia> mega panarchy is now cloaked again
<ikonia> morning by the way
<ikonia> hello keesm0
<keesm0> hi
<ikonia> how can we help you today keesm0 ?
<jpds> keesm0: Bonjour.
<ubottu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join (1457 users, 0 overflows, 1457 limit))
<ubottu> FloodBot4 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join (1457 users, 0 overflows, 1457 limit))
<ubottu> FloodBot2 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join (1457 users, 0 overflows, 1457 limit))
<ikonia> keesm0: hello ?
<jpds> ikonia: See -irc too.
<ikonia> ahh
<ikonia> thank you jpds
<ikonia> keesm0: if you don't need anything else from the team in this channel, could you please leave as per the /topic as we have a no idle policy
 * keesm0 ok ikonia no problem byebye
<jpds>  
<ikonia> ?
<ikonia> !find ironahk
<ubottu> Package/file ironahk does not exist in maverick
<ikonia> how annoying
<ubottu> In #ubuntu-bots, hyperstream said: !best  what is the best ftp server
<jpds> Fail.
<seeker> Hai
<topyli> @btlogin
<popey> FYI: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/sounder/2010-October/015409.html
<popey> SpaceGhost = that guy. He's now banned from ubuntu-users and sounder lists
<Pici> popey: Thanks for the update.  I figured that would happen after some of his comments on sounder.  I let Lyz know about it a few days ago.
<popey> I completely missed that thread
<IdleOne> What is going on with him :/
<popey> I only got alerted when he cc'ed Claire Newman
<Pici> I didn't link to a specific thread, or really provide details.  I probably should have.
<IdleOne> going to leave Madmatrix on +q they are responding with gibberish in PM
<Pici> fun.
<elky> hmm, i thought he was older than 14...
<ikonia> who ?
<elky> spaceghost, as per above
<popey> I dunno how old he is, he seems to swing wildly from coherent, sane and helpful to madly abusive and childish. I wouldn't even try to peg an age on him
<elky> he claimed to have kids
<elky> so, who knows
<ikonia> he's not 14
<elky> taylanub, can we help?
<ubottu> m4v called the ops in #ubuntu (TakeADump)
<oly562> why am i banned  from #ubuntu
<oly562> ...
<oly562> i just tried to log in, and pop up says im banned....
<oly562> is this what to expect from the Ubuntu community for which I am a member....
<oly562> are all people i send to Ubuntu going to get this type of treatment....
<oly562> well.....
<oly562> why am I banned from #ubuntu room... again... i havent been in there for over 2 days.... who keeps banning me?? you sorry ass
<oly562> well......
<oly562> why isn't anyone responding??
<pleia2> oly562: please be patient and wait for an #ubuntu op, we're all volunteers here :)
<oly562> why was i banned.... i shouldnt be in this room at all
<oly562> i need my questions answered or some help with things,,,, ikonia you punk, IdleOne you punk, who put me on ban...
<oly562> they are here, they are just hiding
<oly562> tell you what,,, next time i see one of you at a ubuntu meeting, i'm going to talk to you in person, hows that
<mneptok> calling people names is not going to help.
<mneptok> @login
<ubottu> The operation succeeded.
<oly562> i have not idea what that mans,,,
<oly562> ignoring me jerk isnt helping either
<oly562> i want to know who banned me and why
<oly562> period
<mneptok> that's what i'm trying to find out.
<oly562> this is getting rediculious
<oly562> i have not beef with you mneptok but do not state the obvious to me, i know what im saying and doing
<mneptok> it seems you have been banned multiple times, and have even been referred to the IRC appeals process.
<oly562> im a volunteer everytime i answer a noobs question, but i dont say it to them, i just help
<oly562> do you know how long ago that was? you make it sound like it happend yesterday
<oly562> yah, i kicked a dog once for biting me, is that wrong?
<oly562> im here for info and helping others, i do not see how any of this happens at all. other than, personal bias
<mneptok> i'm looking in the bantracker, and i see that you have been banned multiple times, have been banned from this channel for your language, and have been quite profane and abusive in PM with other ops.
<oly562> your ops are asses
<mneptok> as you say, i have had no interaction with you.
<mneptok> "my" ops?
<oly562> those who have talked to me the way they did
<oly562> they deserve it
<mneptok> hardly. i'm just one among many equals.
<oly562> right right
<oly562> look,  take the ban off, and tell who it was
<mneptok> but you admit there have been problems?
<oly562> i admit there are problems with people like you who think they can talk to me this way
<oly562> are you a lawyer?
<mneptok> because i'm not getting involved. and i don't want you to think it's because i didn't even bother to look.
<oly562> listen to you
<oly562> bottom line is,,, there is no reason for the ban
<oly562> my ban was lifted, i went in, got my info, and left
<oly562> i come back today, 3 days later
<IdleOne> The ban will not be lifted. not today. Your attitude and language in here proves you are unable to control yourself.
<oly562> and it says im banned
<oly562> so... for you and anyone like you, if i see you at a meeting, im going to come up and talk to you
<oly562> see if you ban me then
<oly562> i dont like people who are hardheaded and unfriendly
 * mneptok is not sure what that means
<oly562> and think they are gods of irc
 * jrib is with mneptok
<knome> me neither. please stop this sillyness.
<IdleOne> oly562: you are welcome to come meet us at a Montreal meetup
<oly562> right right
<oly562> IdleOne:  your another one
<IdleOne> I'll be happy to explain the ubuntu guidelines to you in person
<oly562> sure you will
<oly562> just like in here
<oly562> take the ban off
<oly562> now
<oly562> and i will forgive your evil ways
<IdleOne> not going to happen.
<oly562> your a dick IdleOne
<oly562> im sure im not the only one to express that
<oly562> jerks
<jrib> I had no clue what the ban was about, but I'm starting to get a feeling.  oly562 you need to calm down if you hope to get this sorted out.
<knome> Tm_T, thanks
<IdleOne> mneptok: Please remove him from here. We don't need to take this abuse. The ban will not be lifted until he learns to discuss like an adult and not make threats.
<IdleOne> Tm_T: THANK YOU
<mneptok> IdleOne: Tm_T has even less patience than i.
<IdleOne> sorry caps
<mneptok> his costume was nice, though. which makes this a really tough vote.
<knome> imo it's not really about patience. it's about if you really should take all that
<Tm_T> mneptok: wasn't about of patience, no need to give him more rope
<mneptok> Tm_T: the marionette swings farther with more.
<Tm_T> anyway, I'm going to sleep, good night all <3
<knome> night Tm_T
<jrib> night
<mneptok> IdleOne: so ... is that true?
<IdleOne> is what true?
<mneptok> are you a dick?
<IdleOne> I have been called worse
<IdleOne> many times
<IdleOne> so I suppose it is
<mneptok> we all have. but being called something and being something are different.
<IdleOne> when it comes to the Ubuntu guidelines I am strict
<IdleOne> if that makes me a .... fine
<IdleOne> that's what I am
<mneptok> probably more so than i am. which i guess makes me the dick. if that's the pejorative du jour.
<IdleOne> I rather not use any pejoratives
<mneptok> take 2 before workouts for an energy boost.
<IdleOne> heh
<oly562> :|
<oly562> i would like to have access to the #ubuntu room, or someone here help me with my driver issue
<oly562> that is really ever what i need when i come to these rooms, some help
<oly562> i would also like to know why i was banned from last time i logged in until today... when i tried again....
<oly562> feel free to join in at anytime...  its 1:50pm pac time
<oly562> ic, only when i start to get upset. will someone say something....
<oly562> interesting
<oly562> thats been the pattern everytime i have come in this room....
<oly562> 2 mins have passed, im not an idle
<oly562> and will wait here all day until i find out...
<oly562> so
<oly562> do i have to cuss to get attn?
<oly562> that seems to be the only way to get a response,,,
<knome> oly562, please.
<oly562> knome: sighs... put yourself in my shoes
<oly562> i say one cuss word or name call, and the room responds... that means, they are sitting and waiting for it....
<oly562> make sense?
<oly562> to me it does
<knome> that's not true. people are volunteers, which means they are sitting and waiting for somebody to say something.
<oly562> its not 1:58 pactime, still no response
<knome> *not
<oly562> of course they are
<oly562> thats how it works
<oly562> i have all my chat logs to prove it
<oly562> time and time again
<oly562> i have to actually get mean to get a response
<oly562> lol
<oly562> ridicilious
<oly562> look,,, i just need access or can someone help with my driver issue, simple, i have wasted enough time
<knome> please. you were given one chance today to resolve your issue but due to your attitude, it was not resolved. IdleOne even told you, the ban is not going to be lifted today. please come back in 24 hours.
<oly562> i hate idle
<oly562> and i told him to never speak to me again
<oly562> did he listen?
<knome> mneptok, ?
<oly562> what makes him more important than me
<oly562> IdleOne:
<oly562> he knows, he is sitting there watching
<oly562> mneptok: played lawyer with me
<oly562> i dont like him anymore either
<oly562> no one yet has addressed my question
<oly562> now or the first time i came in here
<knome> oly562, please. can you try to control yourself. come back in 24 hours and try to take a more positive attitude, and the ops will try to resolve your issue.
<oly562> my attitude was nothing compared to waiting that long, when i say one bad thing and i get umptine responses
<oly562> no, i need my drivers to work today
<oly562> like now
<oly562> is this how you will treat people who ask for help?
<knome> this is not a support channel as the topic says.
<knome> if you need the drivers to work now, you can search the forums or even call the paid support.
<oly562> obviously its a no win situation in here, that comment shows me your like the rest.. not a real linux user, not part of linux community, and surely not able to ever try to understand
<oly562> oh please.. your such a wuss
<oly562> talk to me like a person not a scripted response
<oly562> im not some noob
<oly562> i just some links or basic advice, as i can not get this driver up... on ubuntu, other OS sure, ubuntu not....
<gord> oly562, this is not a support channel, you will not find support here, please come back in 24 hours if you want to discuss your ban
<oly562> every distro rolls thier own from source, and puts this or that there or here, and renames it to sound new,,, so witih Ubuntu, aka debian, its really upsetting.. to sit here and waste this much time
<oly562> gord: are you a linux user?
<oly562> then why arent you helping a fellow nixian
<oly562> bah im bored, your not community, those who have spoke to me, your perpetrating frauds...
<oly562> should for sure be volunteers
<IdleOne> oly562: the original reason you were banned was because you kept asking for help with a modified java binary. you then came here and tsimpson gave you a chance, even after you abused the ops in here with bad language. ikonia read the back log of this channel and decided that your attitude in here did not warrant the chance and he reset the ban which I agree with. Your attitude and bad language in here today further solidifies my belief that yo
<IdleOne> u are not able to follow our channel guidelines. The ban will not be lifted today. Please return in 24 hours with a better attitude and we can discuss this further at that time.
<oly562> what??????????????????????????????//
<oly562> are youuuuuuuuuuuuu
<oly562> you talking about..............
<oly562> what kinda crap is that
<oly562> my attitude???????????????//
<oly562> i dont NOT kiss peoples ass who are not worthy
<IdleOne> it isn't crap it is the answer to your question.
<IdleOne> and I do not take well to threats.
<oly562> you are exactly the type of "op" i dispise
<IdleOne> please leave now.
<oly562> well what can i really say to that... except, do not talk to me again
<oly562> like i told you before
<IdleOne> that is fine but the ban stays
<oly562> you have no idea what its like being on this end do you....
<oly562> unable to ban people like you
<oly562> your not my god
<oly562> never
<knome> mneptok?
<IdleOne> I don't talk to people like you do
<IdleOne> i threat people with respect
<oly562> you dont have to
<oly562> you have a button to push
<oly562> so you push it
<knome> IdleOne, s/threat/treat/ :)
<IdleOne> i don't demand help from a volunteer community. I ask politely
<IdleOne> knome: thank you
<ikonia> I guess this is done then
<guntbert> hi, can someone tell skism in #ubuntu to take it easy on the <enter> key ? -- he won't listen to me
<knome> agreed.
<oly562> im a voluteer each time i help someone, but i dont say,, Im a volunteer, i just do it
<IdleOne> ikonia: this is done. yes
<ikonia> IdleOne: yes
<ikonia> guntbert: no problem
<oly562> sighs...
<guntbert> thx
<oly562> ikonia: oh there you are
<oly562> the one who started all this now and then
<oly562> why did i get banned from 4 days ago until today?
<IdleOne> I answered that already.
<oly562> i tried to log in, and well, as you probably know, i was banned again
<ikonia> apologies for the slow response, I was not here when you started
<oly562> your NOT ikonia IdleOne
<oly562> ok,,, ikonia 1. did you ban me the other day again?
<oly562> if so.. why?
<oly562> in #ubuntu
<oly562> i log in today, and i get the ban pop up
<oly562> ...
<oly562> i tested skype with a user, then i logged off...
<oly562> so why am i here today again, ikonia
<ikonia> oly562: I told you the day you got banned that your modified flash package was not supported, tsimpson removed the ban, and you then started asking for help with your flash problem again
<ikonia> that was the basis, however your long term attitude and inability to follow the rules is the long term issue
<oly562> not following me question... read it again
<oly562> that made no sense, long term
<ikonia> ok, I'll try to be clearer
<oly562> sorry i disagree
<oly562> i know what and what not i do, im typing int
<oly562> it
<ikonia> this current ban was put in place due to you asking about your modified flash binariy after being told it is not supported
<oly562> im also logging it
<oly562> fine fine
<ikonia> the channel is publicly logged
<oly562> we discussed that
<oly562> now.......... 1. why was a banned after that
<oly562> from then to now
<ikonia> oly562: you got unbanned, and rejoined ubuntu and started askig about it again
<oly562> before i came in this room
<ikonia> the day you go unbanned, you joined #ubuntu and started asking about your modified flash problem again
<ikonia> so I banned you
<oly562> no i did not
<ikonia> you did
<oly562> no
<oly562> paste it here unmodified
<ikonia> !logs
<ubottu> Official channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ - For LoCo channels, http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/
<oly562> i mentioned i wouldnt be using that, not asking for questions about it... so that others may understand its not working
<oly562> i know what i said and meant
<ikonia> be with you in a minute while I pull the logs
<oly562> sure
<oly562> i have been here this long, why not a bit longer
<oly562> :|
<oly562> ops, did i show some attitude...
<ikonia> drop the attitude if you want to talk about it properly
<ikonia> ok done
<oly562> see, ou were never really going to show anything
<ikonia> not discussing this any more
<oly562> see how quick witted and responsive you are
<oly562> thats what i deal with in the public room
<oly562> jerk
<oly562> thats how you talk to me
<ikonia> I am, I'm searching the logs, but I'm not having any more attitude from you
<oly562> i dont like it
<ikonia> bye
<oly562> nah, you never wanted to help me now or then
<ikonia> oly562: please leave the channel, this won't be discussed any more
<oly562> your biased and should not be a volunteer
<Seeker`> !appeals | oly562
<ubottu> oly562: If you disagree with a decision by an operator, please first pay #ubuntu-ops a visit. If you are still unhappy, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/AppealProcess for the steps you should take. If you feel the need to discuss the channel rules, please contact the ops on IRC or via the email address on the aforementioned page.
<Seeker`> !ops | oly562
<ubottu> oly562: Help! Channel emergency! (ONLY use this trigger in emergencies) -  Tm_T, tritium, elky, Nalioth, tonyyarusso, imbrandon, PriceChild, Madpilot, Myrtti, mneptok, Pici, tsimpson, gnomefreak, jussi, topyli, or nhandler!
<ubottu> Seeker` called the ops in #ubuntu-ops (oly562)
<oly562> yawn
<oly562> again, overreacting
<oly562> so you see people this is what i mean by biased
<oly562> not really willing to help people just for the sake of helping, this is what i feel ubuntu is about... however, this is not the case with ikonia and his minions
<oly562> actually looking at that list of help,, i noticed some of those were always at his side... pici, nalioth, what kinda of list is that
<Seeker`> ty
<knome> thanks.
<ikonia> thank you, I refuse to discuss things while getting attitude like that
<ikonia> I'm more than willing to through it with him, but not taking any more attitude/abuse from him
<ikonia> oly562: if you remain calm and drop the abuse, I'm happy to discuss this with you, as normal humans do
<ikonia> is that possible ?
<oly562> what kinda of response is that,, how am i exactly to respond to that downgrading comment right there... think about it....
<oly562> anything is possible with you ikonia
<ikonia> oly562: yes or no is the response I'm expecting
<oly562> sure
<ikonia> oly562: ok, so you can keep calm and no abuse ? yes/no ?
<oly562> id like my ban lifted, and why i was banned from 4 days ago and today... oh and yes, sure, of course, definitely
<oly562> sometimes i type when your typing
<oly562> if you talk to me normal i will do the same
<oly562> deal?
<oly562> yes/no?
<ikonia> I've not talked rude or abusive to you, I don't expect it in return
<KB1JWQ> Hows about we all be civil?
<oly562> sighs..i simply woudl like to rejoin #ubuntu and solve my driver issue.... i dont get all this
<oly562> i usually ask for links or a few commands im not familiar with... whats so hard about all this
<oly562> i do not need all the personal attitude either
<ikonia> oly562: please keep to this ban only
<ikonia> I'm just pulling the logs for you now
<oly562> why not simply let me go and ask my questions like i always have done.... forget all this other stuff. its after the fact
<oly562> my god
<ikonia> oly562: this is the last time I'll ask, please be patience and calm
<ikonia> patient
<oly562> im patient
<oly562> i just dont kiss ass, and stop making me try to
<ikonia> ok, please just wait quietly, and I'll grab the logs now and explain
<ikonia> ok enough,
<ikonia> I'm done
<ikonia> oly562: please leave the channel, I'm not progressing this any more
<oly562> anyway,,, if someone understands, they can help out.... as you can see this really is a personal issue
<oly562> i am unable to resolve by myself
<popey> @login
<ubottu> The operation succeeded.
<oly562> in the meantime, i will check google for answers.. while i waste time sitting here
<Seeker`> oly562: please don't idle in here. You have been linked the appeals process already.
<oly562> since this is "not" a support room
<ikonia> oly562: please leave the channel, your ban won't be progressed at this time
<Seeker`> nhandler: still about?
<oly562> who is Seeker`?
<Seeker`> oly562: I am an op.
<oly562> oh hello
<knome> nhandler, thanks. i love you eternally.
<Seeker`> nhandler: care to remove him to?
<nhandler> I'll remove the ban later in the hour. I just want to keep him from rejoining for now
<Seeker`> ty
<nhandler> Crap, I thought I had done a ban remove Seeker`
<knome> way too much rope
<ikonia> he's a long term problem user
<Seeker`> for the 1,000,000,000th time, why do people get involved in hour long discussions with trolls?
<knome> he seems to think that talking to a "new" op would trick us
<ikonia> he knows what he's doing
<knome> he should have been banned with the first kick really.
<Seeker`> if the ircc would hurry up and get the ops in here sorted, he would have been.
<knome> mmh.
<nhandler> I disagree. There is no reason to ban someone on the first removal. Even the ban I have in place now will be removed shortly
<knome> there should clearly be a time limit with these guys trying to resolve their bans
<IdleOne> apparently every time a troll rejoins we have to go about the entire process of bending over for them.
<Seeker`> nhandler: he has been through this several times before
<Seeker`> he isn't a new user
<knome> if there is no sign of any progress in sight in the first, say 20 minutes, then remove
<knome> if the attitude remains negative whatever the ops said, i don't think it will improve after a kick. really.
<Seeker`> nhandler: I'm all for giving people that aren't known to us a chance. But people that repeatedly waste hours of our time shouldn't be allowed to continue.
<knome> agreed with Seeker`. even i can remember this guy from before, even if i don't read all the backlogs every day.
<Seeker`> There was a question about how to reduce op fatigue / stress in one of the sessions in UDS. Allowing trolls to monopolise our time is the biggest thing we could do towards keeping ops sane.
<Seeker`> *Not allowing
<jrib> Seeker`: case in point, eh
<IdleOne> I am all for not allowing people to abuse us. They abuse the community first which is what brings them here and then we have to take the abuse also? I don't think so.
<Seeker`> nhandler: he was unbanned previously in #u, and started up with exactly what he was banned for before, so he was banned again. He then came in and spent an hour being abusive. He was unhappy with his ban, he wasn't going to get unbanned, so why not give him a link to !appeals and then stop him further wasting our time?
<Seeker`> jrib: huh?
<Seeker`> sorry, long day, tired
<jrib> Seeker`: bad joke, the olly issue caused you to say "allow" instead of "not allow"
<Seeker`> jrib: I've not been sane for a long time :P I'm still here after a few years :P
<nhandler> Seeker`: He was given a link to the appeals process and then removed after refusing to leave when requested. But there is no reason for an initial ban to be set with that first removal
<IdleOne> even after implied physical harm?
<IdleOne> even after calling me a dick
<IdleOne> even after cursing up a storm
<IdleOne> today and the other day
<IdleOne> to much hand holding. we need to kick asses when they need to be kicked
<Seeker`> nhandler: if he wanted to contest his ban he can contact the IRCC. What purpose does allowing him back in serve?
<IdleOne> rww: what's up?
<Seeker`> nhandler: and it wasn't his first removal. It was his second *this evening*
<rww> Hola. I take it that nhandler's email to ubuntu-irc applies to all channels covered by the bantracker?
<nhandler> rww: Yes
<rww> nhandler: I don't have BT access, and op #ubuntu-women. Can you pull any attached logfiles from my bans in there for me, please?
<ikonia> I didn't think BT covered #ubuntu-women ?
<rww> ikonia: it does
<IdleOne> it does
<ikonia> I never noticed that
<rww> or process my operator application and give me BT access ;P. Either works ;P
<nhandler> Hmm...Why does it is my question
<elky> It was originally accidental, but it's been infinitely useful
<IdleOne> it helps the UW team keep track of problem/repeat offenders
<nhandler> elky: It might be useful, but if we are restricting the BT to the core channels, we should probably stick to that policy. Otherwise, we should make it available to other Ubuntu channels
<nhandler> rww: I don't have an easy way to export a list, but I'll make sure someone gets you a list of active bans for #ubuntu-women from the BT
<elky> Aaaand this is why the level of bureaucracy being build in to the irc landscape is scaring me.
<Seeker`> nhandler: so, he was warned about his behaviour / asked to be patient by mnepto k, knom e, Tm_ T, IdleOne and ikonia. He was kicked once for his attitude, and the discussion was allowed to continue. And all of that doesn't deserve a ban, after he had been told the ban wasn't being removed and how to appeal, at which point being int he channel no longer serves any purpose other than to wind people up?
<rww> nhandler: I'm more interested in any logs it has saved, actually. Thanks to some shuffling around of my irssi client's location, I think I might be missing context for some of them.
<ikonia> rww: i cross check ban dates again the public logs if that helps
<rww> ikonia: #ubuntu-women isn't publicly logged ;(
<ikonia> ooh drat
<nhandler> Seeker`: A removal yes. And maybe a temporary ban to keep him from initially rejoining, but in general users should be free to join this channel to discuss their bans with the OPs.
<Seeker`> nhandler: Please explain to me the benefit of discussing a ban that an op has said will not be removed at this time?
<Seeker`> nhandler: other than give trolls kicks and annoy ops?
<IdleOne> Not after we have tried to discuss the ban and the user is abusive.
<nhandler> Seeker`: I didn't say at that particulr moment. But i.e. he should be able to rejoin when he has had some time to think and read the links or after a few days. Bans are not permanent and he should be able to discuss it. IdleOne You are forgetting that we are banning people who have caused problems in the channel. If you are unable to talk to them due to their behavior, let another OP handle it. Our goal is to try and ...
<nhandler> ... explain why that behavior is wrong and how to change it.
<IdleOne> nhandler: 5 ops tried today
<IdleOne> or 4
<Seeker`> I never said that he should be banned permanently. Just that he would have been banned at the time when you first kicked him if I had +o.
<IdleOne> When any one of us said anything he didn't agree with or didn't like the direction it was headed in he became abusive
<IdleOne> He was the same way the other day.
<Seeker`> nhandler: have you ever actually seen any of the discussions with that user? Or even read the backscroll from today?
<nhandler> IdleOne: That should not be grounds for banning him from -ops. Tell him that you don't want to talk to him like that and he should leave until he is willing to talk calmly
<IdleOne> nhandler: us telling him or asking him to leave is useless. he knows that only a few ops have the power to remove him and he continues to abuse until that happens
<Seeker`> yes, and we all know every single user leaves politely when asked and doesn't come back for 48 hours, at which point they have a perfectly civil discussion
<popey> Sarcasm overload!
<knome> woot
<nhandler> Seeker`: Banning for a short period of time for insisting on rejoining right away or after being removed is quite different than banning right of the bat
<knome> :)
<IdleOne> nhandler: So his history of abuse in this channel has no bearing ?
<Seeker`> nhandler: where did I say he should have been banned right off the bat? Please show me?
<Seeker`> nhandler: the point where you kicked him the first time was an hour after he originally joined. Hardly "off the bat"
<nhandler> IdleOne: In treating him fairly, No. In deciding whether to unban him in the channel he is banned in, yes.
<IdleOne> I think I did treat him fairly
<nhandler> Banning him when I did the initial removal would not have been.
<Seeker`> nhandler: what?! You've got to be kidding me?
<Seeker`> nhandler: abusing ops for an hour isn't enough grounds to ban from the channel temporarily?
<IdleOne> I think you are wrong. You are overlooking the fact that he called us dicks and minions and ass and that he implied to kick any one of our asses if he saw us at a meetup.
<elky> IdleOne, eep. I remember the days when freenode would kline them for that :(
<nhandler> Seeker`: What would be the point of that? To make him leave? That is what the removal is for. A ban is to keep someone who insists on rejoining afterwards out
<IdleOne> yeah well apparently not anymore
<Seeker`> nhandler: you were surpised when he rejoined? honestly?
<popey> he had already rejoined after Tm_T kicked him
<ubottu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (BANLIST FULL, REMOVE SOME BANS)
<IdleOne> btw I believe he is in Ontario, and he is welcome to come to Montreal if he needs an explanation of the guidelines
<Seeker`> nhandler: Please don't say you were surprised when he continued being uncooperative?
<jrib> honestly, the kicks/removals are pointless.  "Stop being abusive or you will be banned."  And if he doesn't stop, ban.  What's the point of the kick?
<IdleOne> +1 jrib
<knome> +1
<nhandler> Seeker`: No. But why not give him the benefit of a doubt that he will obey what was said and leave. It is minimal effort to ban him if he insists on immediately rejoining like he did
<Seeker`> nhandler: why not look at the hour long backscroll of him being absuive?
<Seeker`> nhandler: and save the ops the stress of him rejoining again straight away
<IdleOne> because that would make sense
<IdleOne> and sense does not seem to be what we have anymore
<IdleOne> I am getting upset. I will strep away
<IdleOne> step*
<Seeker`> o/
<popey> benefit of the doubt goes out of the window after direct abuse, veiled threats and a long past history.
<popey> IMO
<Seeker`> +1
<knome> mm
<knome> Seeker`, i really think you should gather an email about all your worthy thoughts today, sir
<popey> especially after already being informed of the appeals process on numerous occasions and taking no steps to actually use it
<Seeker`> knome: what? so it can be added to a wiki page, someone will think up some action to apply that never gets looked at again?
<Seeker`> knome: feel free to quote me if you wish to put together such an email
<knome> Seeker`, no, to be discussed. i can pull the noses of topyl i and juss i if it does not get discussed.
<knome> i'll see if i have some time. studies and work keep me busy. :/
<rww> nhandler: anyway. Is there any chance of getting logfiles? Does BT even keep logfiles? I have no idea :<
<jrib> rww: I have a couple of minutes, do you just want a list of bans by "rww"?
<nhandler> rww: It has logs of what happened around the time of the ban, but I'll have to see if these can easily be exported
<ikonia> if he's an op of -women, can we not grant him bt access?
<ikonia> the tool is used in #ubuntu-women, so give him access to help him do his job ?
 * jrib agrees
<IdleOne> +1
<rww> nhandler: Alrighty. If it's not possible, I can pester the other ops. I'm going to need to do that to get stuff @commented anyway >.>
<ikonia> rww: lets get you access
<ikonia> its the most common sense thing to do
<ikonia> your op'ing in a channel that uses ubottu and bt so lets get you access
<IdleOne> rww: feel free to msg me to add comments to bans/ see logs of bans you have set until you have access to BT
<nhandler> rww: I'll make sure you get a copy of the relevant entries in the db
<ikonia> it can't be that hard to get him access, I can give him the command to grant him access if no-one objects ?
<ikonia> nhandler: what ?
<ikonia> how about get him access
<nhandler> ikonia: I don't have access to add him. But I did bring that up with the council (but it is getting late in Europe)
<ikonia> I'll add him if your comfortable
<ikonia> he's opping in a channel that uses the tool
<ikonia> he should have access
<nhandler> ikonia: Wait at least until tomorrow for us to sort this out
<ikonia> nhandler: I'll be happy to wait
<ikonia> this is hilighting the red tape issue
<ikonia> is he an op in a channel that uses BT - yes
<ikonia> as an op in a channel should he have access to BT like the rest of us, - yes
<ikonia> why does that need to be checked/cleared up/discussed
<rww> nhandler: Alrighty. I'll come back in a few days if I don't hear from y'all in the meantime. Thanks :)
<Pici> rww: You'll hear from us shortly.
<Pici> As will the rest of the ops in u-w.
<ikonia> Pici: what's being discussed, if the ops should have access or if u-w should use bt ?
<Pici> ikonia: We don't set the ops in u-w.  And there isn't the capability currently to limit results to just channels that operators have access to.
<ikonia> is that needed ? you can search by channel
<Seeker`> @btlogin
<ikonia> or does the search function not pickup #ubuntu-women as it wasn't a channel it was intended to use
<Pici> Its a question of letting people that we have not vetted have access to the comments and ban records of all channels.
<ikonia> Pici: fair enough
<ikonia> Pici: I assume this is part of the definition of a core channel and the sub discussions under that
<Pici> ikonia: It was, but its gotten all complicated now.
<ikonia> Pici: I can see how it would, thank you
#ubuntu-ops 2010-11-02
<elky> erm, my chanserv is borked, someone remove the troll from -women plz
<metaphaze> I am banned from #ubuntu, for being an asshole
<metaphaze> is there anyway to get the ban reversed :\
<ActionParsnip> hi all
<ActionParsnip> is supergrub supported in #ubuntu?
<metaphaze> Howdy ActionParsnip
<metaphaze> I got ubuntu installed ;) old RAID parameters were left on the drive...thats why it wouldn't install
<ActionParsnip> metaphaze: ahhh i see. makes sense
<metaphaze> crazy, even after complete format and all that it saved old RAID params LOL
<metaphaze> ActionParsnip, if you get a chance tell #ubuntu OPS im sorry, and would love to jump back in to the foray
<metaphaze> the booze ...
<ActionParsnip> metaphaze: this is the page for it ;)
<metaphaze> yeah waiting to hear something, im really sorry for being an asshole
<metaphaze> im so upset bitchx is gone :(
<IdleOne> metaphaze: do you know why you were banned?
<metaphaze> IdleOne, for being an asshole, sorry for the lang. but thats why
<metaphaze> Was having issues with Ubuntu, got angry...had a bit to much to drink...
<IdleOne> hmm well I think it was more for the language but yeah the attitude doesn't help
<IdleOne> FYI that language is not acceptable in any ubuntu channels
<metaphaze> Sorry for the lang.
<metaphaze> I was being a complete jerk
<metaphaze> I understand, the ban was deserved.
<metaphaze> Not allowing me back, is also understood. I just figured I'd behave, and ask for forgiveness.
<IdleOne> metaphaze: I'm going to ask you to read the following links
<metaphaze> ok
<IdleOne> !guidelines > metaphaze
<ubottu> metaphaze, please see my private message
<IdleOne> !coc > metaphaze
<metaphaze> Ok, I'll go read them bbiab
<IdleOne> I'll remove the ban but please follow the channel rules. ok?
<metaphaze> Let me read the rules first.
<metaphaze> I need to make sure I can follow them.
<IdleOne> sure thing take your time
<IdleOne> btw a good rule of thumb, don't drink and IRC :)
<metaphaze> IdleOne, don't drink and do a lot of things ;)
<IdleOne> indeed
<metaphaze> I've read your rules, and I can follow them. I am pretty conservative with my language. Question though, I was asking about bitchx earlier.
<IdleOne> yeah
<metaphaze> That isn't going to get me banned is it?
<IdleOne> doesn't seem to be in the repositories
<metaphaze> No it has been removed
<IdleOne> you mean the use of the application name?
<metaphaze> BitchX is dead...
<metaphaze> Yes
<IdleOne> no, it won't but seeing how it isn't in the repos it is not supported so offtopic
<metaphaze> Where is the offtopic chan?
<metaphaze> #ubuntu-offtopic
<metaphaze> ?
<IdleOne> #ubuntu-offtopic same rules as all the other ubuntu channels
<IdleOne> so you agree to follow the rules right?
<metaphaze> but bitchx is allowed in conversation?
<IdleOne> when speaking of the app, yes.
<metaphaze> I agree to the rules, and I am sorry for my behavior last evening.
<IdleOne> if you are going to use bitchx out of context then you might get banned
<metaphaze> only in contex
<IdleOne> yup
<metaphaze> it wont happen again, like I said im sorry for my behavior I hope you can accept my apology
<IdleOne> ok ban is removed, please rejoin the channel and thanks for being so agreeable :)
<metaphaze> No, thank you for being so kind
<IdleOne> my pleasure.
<IdleOne> metaphaze: Please part the channel as per the no idle rule mentioned in the topic
<metaphaze> Ok
<IdleOne> some hope has been restored in man kind
<bazhang> only 871 bans to go
<IdleOne> hehe
<bazhang> regarding the "comments on ban or they are removed" : such bans as @hitler.didntkill.je.ws dont need a comment, do they?
<IdleOne> bazhang: I would add one just in case it is automated script
<IdleOne> that removes the bans
<bazhang> in that case why don't they just do -clear-
<IdleOne> not sure but why take a chance is what I'm saying.
<jussi> bazhang: that ban should probably be removed imho. its likely not going to be used again...
<Seeker`> jussi: please can you read/respond to the core-ops thread started by me on sunday on the -irc mailing list?
<jussi> Seeker`: sure. Ive read, and Im working on a response. However, Im waiting on some info, so Ill respond soon as I get that.
<Seeker`> ok, thqnks
<jussi> IdleOne: why did you set the forward to #ubuntu-proxy-users for webchat again?
<jussi> hi arun123
<jussi> arun123: could you please attempt to join #ubuntu again?
<arun123> hi,  i cant see my desktop items.getting this error "cant update .ICEauthority" . I also changed the permissions by going into shell mode. But still unable to see the anything
<jussi> arun123: this isnt #ubuntu...
<jussi> arun123: ahh, now you are in.
<jussi> please part this channel :)
<jussi> Just for everyones attention, again... We changed the system so that the FB now do the +e while the user is in the channel, but muted - I even wrote to the list about it!! (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-irc/2010-October/001086.html) Please dont change it back to forwarding to -proxy-users...
<jpds> Righto.
<jrib> FB?
<jrib> never mind
<jpds> jrib: Facebook.
<jrib> yes, I tried twice to read it as "Facebook" :P
<jpds> [0;1;35;95mâºâ³[0;1;31;91mâ¸â[0;1;33;93mââ[0;1;32;92mââ[0;1;36;96mââ[0;1;34;94mââ[0;1;35;95mâ»[0m  [0;1;31;91mâ»[0m  [0;1;32;92mâ»[0m  [0;1;36;96mâ»[0m  [0;1;35;95mâ»[0m
<jpds>  [0;1;31;91mâ[0m [0;1;33;93mâ£[0;1;32;92mâ³â[0;1;36;96mâ[0m [0;1;34;94mââ£[0;1;35;95mââ«[0;1;31;91mâ[0m  [0;1;33;93mâ[0m  [0;1;36;96mâ[0m  [0;1;34;94mâ[0m  [0;1;31;91mâ¹[0m
<jrib> -_-
<jpds>  [0;1;33;93mâ¹[0m [0;1;32;92mâ¹[0;1;36;96mââ¸[0;1;34;94mââ[0;1;35;95mââ¹[0m [0;1;31;91mâ¹[0;1;33;93mââ[0;1;32;92mâ¸â[0;1;36;96mââ¸[0;1;34;94mââ[0;1;35;95mâ¸â[0;1;31;91mââ¸[0;1;33;93mâ¹[0m
<bazhang> hehe
<knome> that didn't quite work?
<charlie-tca> Well, I am glad I wasn't the only one thought that failed
<Pici> Wow.  Only 3 hilights in my away log.
<Pici> Factoids updated for !natty, !schedule-#ubuntu+1 and !uds. Also updated the topic in +1
<ikonia> bravo
<ikonia> 3 highlights is a record
<Pici> Also !unity has a lot of good information for people who will inevitably be askign about it.
<ikonia> you have been busy
<Pici> Nah, this only took 10 min.
<Pici> Now for breakfast, so I can actually wake uo.
<Pici> up ;)
<jpds> I cycle half-way across London before I have any breakfast.
<ubottu> In #ubuntu-offtopic, LjL said: !metalink is <reply> A Metalink is a file listing places (web mirrors, torrents) where a given file can be obtained, making downloads faster and more reliable. Ubuntu releases in Metalink format: http://releases.ubuntu.com/ - Metalink clients: http://www.metalinker.org/samples.html (the package "aria2" is recommended)
<Pici> !metalink is <reply> A Metalink is a file listing places (web mirrors,
<Pici>                   torrents) where a given file can be obtained, making downloads faster and more reliable. Ubuntu releases in
<ubottu> I'll remember that, Pici
<Pici>                   Metalink format: http://releases.ubuntu.com/ - Metalink clients: http://www.metalinker.org/samples.html (the
<Pici> argh
<Pici> no !no metalink is <reply> A Metalink is a file listing places (web mirrors, torrents) where a given file can be obtained, making downloads faster and more reliable. Ubuntu releases in Metalink format: http://releases.ubuntu.com/ - Metalink clients: http://www.metalinker.org/samples.html (the "aria2" package is recommended)
<Pici> !no metalink is <reply> A Metalink is a file listing places (web mirrors, torrents) where a given file can be obtained, making downloads faster and more reliable. Ubuntu releases in Metalink format: http://releases.ubuntu.com/ - Metalink clients: http://www.metalinker.org/samples.html (the "aria2" package is recommended)
<ubottu> I'll remember that Pici
<Pici> bleh
<ubottu> FloodBotK1 called the ops in #kubuntu-ops-monitor (ping__luce appears to be abusive - 4.5)
<jussi> s'all good...
<ubottu> In ubottu, LjL said: !no metalink is <reply> A Metalink is a file listing places (web mirrors, torrents) where a given file can be obtained, making downloads faster and more reliable. Metalink software and Ubuntu releases as metalinks: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Metalink
 * persia can't parse it written that way
<Pici> !metalink =~ s/listing/which lists/
<ubottu> I'll remember that Pici
<Pici> 'notty'
<persia> type.
<persia> err, typo
<Pici> I know.
<IdleOne> jussi: sorry, I was removing old bans and that one came up and for some reason I reset it.
<neanderthal> humm, how did I get here..
<neanderthal> Okay, why am I being forwarded here from #u-offtopic?
<Pici> neanderthal: If I remember correctly, it has something to do with your quit message.  Give me a moment.
<Pici> 2010-10-31T23:22:14 *** robinetd (robinetd!~robinetd@unaffiliated/robinetd) has quit IRC (Quit: PEACE THE FUCK OUT)
<neanderthal> Pici: Who assigned the +b so that I may private message him/her and resolve it?
<Pici> neanderthal: If there is a problem with dealing with me, sure, you can talk to Flannel.
<neanderthal> Pici: Not who I expected. I don't have any problem dealing with you, I just assumed it was somebody else.
<neanderthal> Pici: Is it customary to +b people who ragequit one time out of his entire time on the network with an unsavory quit message?
<Pici> neanderthal: Odd question.  Prior good behavior shouldn't influence our decisions to act when a user decides to break our rules.
<neanderthal> Pici: I didn't decide to break your rules. I ragequitted. I didn't even realize I was in that channel at the time.
<jrib> and when you quit there isn't really a good way to tell you "hey, don't do that anymore, ok?"
<neanderthal> jrib: That's what memoserv is for.
<jrib> neanderthal: no, notice that is a question, and we want to make sure you agree
<mneptok> neanderthal: that's what this channel is for. hence the forward.
<Pici> I don't think we all need to jump on him.
<neanderthal> mneptok: That's what memos are for. Hence the unneccessary forward.
<neanderthal> Pici: No kidding. Can I private message you?
<Pici> neanderthal: sure.
<neanderthal> Thanks.
<Pici> sorted.
<IdleOne> thank you Pici
<Tm_T> "one op at a time if possible" etc (:
#ubuntu-ops 2010-11-03
<Jordan_U> syrius is trolling in #ubuntu
<Jordan_U> _16BitSubsystem_ As well
<IdleOne> looking
<Jordan_U> Thanks.
<IdleOne> Since the trigger was just recently used I think we need to reevaluate the use of !away. I think that when a user sets an |away nick and sending them that factoid is a little over kill. I understand if there are multiple nick changes then it becomes annoying. I think !away should be used when there is an annoying away message being sent to channels only.
<persia> I think it has much greater applicability in low-volume channels.  Lots of times a channel shows activity drawing several regulars when nothing is happening, and I tend to be aggressive using !away to ensure that folk still respond, rather than getting that cried-wolf feeling.
<IdleOne> persia: I am sorry to say, but I just read what you said 4 times and sadly I have no idea what you said. perhaps it is me not reading it properly I don't know.
<persia> So, some channels have low activity.  There are often some people who will notice *any* activity in that channel, and head over there (strong specific interest).
<persia> When someone has nick changes due to being away, that causes apparent channel traffic, drawing these folk.
<persia> When it happens a lot, these folk stop responding so quickly, as an increasing number of their responses provide no content.
<persia> So, for these channels, I tend to be fairly strict about enforcing avoidance of nick-change-on-away so that the special-interest folk continue to be available on demand.
<persia> For channels with lots of traffic, where habitues need to watch more, and not switch back for every entered line, this may be less critical.
<IdleOne> might just be me but I don't think that a simple nick change every few hours is that big of a problem in any size channel.
<IdleOne> when the away nick is accompanied by an away message being spammed to the channel, yes that is a issue.
<persia> Makes a *huge* difference in channels that get 1-2 conversations a day, like #ubuntu-powerpc
<persia> There's only 5-6 people who consistently do powerpc support, but having them all jump everytime someone wanders off for a while doesn't encourage them to keep jumping.
<Seeker`> a sensible client will have different alerts for "nick change" to "someone said something"
<Seeker`> IdleOne: one person nick changing isn't a problem, 200 is
<persia> Seeker`, Yeah, well, I guess we need patches for some clients then :)
<IdleOne> Well the issue is not that important to me. I was just thinking out loud a guess.
<IdleOne> s/a/I
<Flannel> http://sackheads.org/~bnaylor/spew/away_msgs.html
<persia> Not incredibly important to me either: just wanted to provide a counterexample.
<ubottu> Gnea called the ops in #ubuntu (ucenik21 and ucenik13 are flooding around the floodbots)
<Tm_T> ...someone with proper connection and a keyboard ^
<ubottu> DJones called the ops in #ubuntu (ucenik13 is back)
<ubottu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (BANLIST FULL, REMOVE SOME BANS)
<ikonia> we need to stop the floodbot auto open proxy detection
<ikonia> it's filling up the ban list
<ikonia> why is ljl's metabot banned in #ubuntu ?
<Tm_T> err?
<Mamarok> ikonia: because it is runnign wild, reconnecting every few minutes
<Mamarok> check #ubuntu-meta
<ikonia> ok, so shall we ask him to stop using it or try to get him a stable host to run it on
<persia> Probably better to offer the choice
<Mamarok> stable host is preferred :)
<jussi> its not such a big issue to deal with if it is a problem is it? yes, we would like a stable host, but still, remember someone is giving this service to us free - interuptions happen on occaision.
<ikonia> it's not happening on occasion
<ikonia> ljl's host in general has been flakey
<ikonia> I'll get him on one of my boxes in a DC
<persia> So, the options are 1) to help him get a more stable host, 2) to lose the service during periods of instability
<ikonia> that will make it go away
<persia> Good choice :)
<jussi> excellent. I was just wary of saying to someone "get a new host or get out"
<ikonia> there has to be some rules on running a bot
<ikonia> a stable host must be one
<ikonia> (everyone gets some interuption
<ikonia> )
<Pici> oops
<chandru_in> My IP address is being blocked when I try to join #ubuntu.  How are these IPs to block decided?
<persia> Mostly based on previous abuse from those IPs.
<bazhang>  FloodBot1 has kicked chandru_in from #ubuntu (Open proxies are not allowed)
<persia> (no, this isn't perfect: help make IPv6 a reality, and abolish NATs and dynamic IPs)
<chandru_in> It is not an open-proxy.  Sometime back a spam bot infected us and so I guess we're blacklisted.  Anyway to get ourself whitelisted?
<persia> Needs discussion with an #ubuntu operator.  Hang out here a bit and one will help you.
<chandru_in> thanks persia
<bazhang> chandru_in, try now
<chandru_in> no luck bazhang
<bazhang> chandru_in, still fixing, sorry about that
<chandru_in> no problem
<bazhang> chandru_in, try again please
<bazhang> chandru_in, success?
<chandru_in> thanks bazhang it did work
<chandru_in> :)
<bazhang> chandru_in, sorry for the mixup
<chandru_in> no problem, bazhang.  It is a minor inconvenience to keep the spam out
<bazhang> LjL has suggested when he's not around to ask said users to get a cloak to workaround
<Pici> bazhang: thanks, sorry I had to step away.
<bazhang> Pici, no problem :)
<ikonia> are we really comfortable with this open proxy detection from the floodbots ?
<Tm_T> hmmh, should go through the bans and comment them...
<jussi> ikonia: why shouldnt we be?
<ikonia> well, it's placing a lot of bans, are they all tried and tested
<ikonia> are they all valid
<Tm_T> hi/hei SerzZ
<Pici> heh
<Tm_T> I'm still behind very slow and choppy gsm connection so don't count on me
<Tm_T> PM:d him
<Tm_T> hopefully bbehaves
<ubottu> FloodBotK2 called the ops in #kubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join (290 users, 0 overflows, 290 limit))
<ubottu> FloodBotK1 called the ops in #kubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join (284 users, 1 overflows, 285 limit))
<Tm_T> I have to go
<Tm_T> back for a moment, anyone have an idea from where SerzZ is possibly banforwarded?
<Pici> I don't see anything using the bot.
<Pici> SerzZ: Can we help you?
<Tm_T> Pici: see idle time (:
<jussi> Tm_T: I see nothing with the bt even
<Tm_T> right, I wonder how he ended up here, as he just sent me email about something else
<Pici> Oh, thats the same guy?
<Tm_T> never seen him before
<Tm_T> or atleast don't remember
<Tm_T> oh well, will ask him, thanks (:
<elky> Uh. Mahen23 is now joining -women to soliciting hugs.
<pleia2> second one this week
<elky> mahen23 has been lurking around in -ot for a while
<Pici> meh.
<Pici> Sorry for feeding, I forgot that he doesn't idle there.
<Seeker`> should we not wait until core-channels and core-ops have been properly defined before recruiting more ops?
<persia> If there's a shortage of ops causing issues, I think it ought be safe to try to get channel-specific ops prior to a definition (but wait for a real answer from IRCC)
<Seeker`> persia: if there is a shortage of ops causing issues, it is a good reason to the definitions sorted ASAP
<Seeker`> persia: seeing as they have been awaiting definition for quite a while
<IdleOne> I don't understand why we need to apple for ops in -ops
<IdleOne> apply*
<persia> I guess.  As someone who finds the idea of "core channels" distasteful, I'm tempted not to ever define them, but I do see your point.
<Seeker`> persia: same here. But there seems to need to be a definition of both core-channels and core-ops. I believe the former has been defined, the latter hasn't really.
<Seeker`> IdleOne: For a laugh? Because the IRCC doesn't already have enough to do? Because the current definition of what a core-ops is is currently broken? All of the above?
<ts2> do you want us to define a core-op, and then have people apply to be a core-op (if needed)? or do you just want to get some more ops in here?
<ts2> I'm confused as what you're asking for here
<persia> ts2, I think rather it would be good to have more ops on channels in need of more coverage.
<IdleOne> ts2: honestly I am confused about the email asking for people to apply to be an op in this channel
<ts2> -ops is a core channel, people must apply to be ops in core channels
<Seeker`> ts2: I've requested more ops in here on several occasions, and each time I was told that it depends on getting both core-channels and core-ops defined
<IdleOne> but I am already an op in a core channel
<IdleOne> #ubuntu is a core channel
<Seeker`> ts2: I've not yet seen a definition (or an agreement from the IRCC) on the latter.
<ts2> IdleOne: so?
<IdleOne> so why do I need to apply for ops in here?
<ts2> IdleOne: people must apply to be ops in core channels
<IdleOne> or am I mistunderstanding something about the email?
<Seeker`> ts2: And there are several people trying to get a discussion sorted about what a core-op is at the moment, including members of the IRCC
<Seeker`> IdleOne: Being an op in a core channel doesn't mean you are a core op.
<ts2> Seeker`: we have decided to get more ops here while that's being decided, yet you seem to disagree?
<Seeker`> IdleOne: for some reason.
<Seeker`> ts2: If you desperately need more ops in here, give people ops. If it isn't that desperate, get stuff defined first.
<IdleOne> but the IRCC already has a pool of core channel ops to chose from. Why do we need to apply?
<ts2> because -ops is a core channel
<persia> IdleOne, Consider it instead, expressing a willingness to serve.
<IdleOne> that isn't an answer
<Seeker`> persia: but it isn't that; It is an application
<Seeker`> persia: the fact that we are idling here is expressing a willingness to serve.
<ts2> yes it is, you must apply to have +o in each core channel (that's the process)
<Seeker`> ts2: where can I find the definition of a core op?
<persia> Seeker`, You're right: see earlier comment about my thoughts on "core" :)
<ts2> Seeker`: we are not talking about a core op
<IdleOne> ts2: did you apply to have ops in here?
<ts2> no, it was added before the process
<IdleOne> did any of the IRCC or current ops in this channel
<IdleOne> so all the current ops get grand fathered in
<Seeker`> ts2: where does it state that you have to apply for ops in each and every channel?
<ts2> IdleOne: at least for now, if you want to propose somethig else, you should add an item to the meeting agenda
<ts2> Seeker`: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcTeam/OperatorRequirements
<Seeker`> ts2: The OperateorRequirements document only talks about becoming a channel-specific operator. Which I already am.
<IdleOne> I am not going to add any item to the meeting agenda. I am also not going to apply for something I have already applied for and was approved to be, a core channel op.
<Seeker`> IdleOne: but that isn't a core-op. For some reason.
<IdleOne> if that means I won't have +o in this channel, so be it.
<ts2> Seeker`: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcTeam/OperatorRequirements#Operator%20application%20proces
<IdleOne> Honestly I am insulted by the separatist attitude that has been creeping into this team. core channel op, core-ops.
<IdleOne> it scares me.
<Seeker`> ts2: But I am already a channel-specific operator, and was before that document was drafted, doesn't that mean it doesn't apply?
<IdleOne> the IRCC is the core-op team but now we need a sub team of core-ops
<ts2> core-ops is non-existant right now, how can something which does not exist scare you?
<ts2> Seeker`: only for the channel(s) you already have +o in
<IdleOne> an invisibility suit doesn't exist either but the posibility of it still scares me
<Seeker`> ts2: it can scare him becuase it is something that is planned?
<ts2> no, it's planned to be considered
<ts2> the IRCC has not decided to implement anything yet
<Seeker`> ts2: it has. According to jussi.
<Seeker`> He stated in the UDS discussion last week that it had been decided by the IRCC that a core-op would be someone that is an op on all core channels.
<Seeker`> So which is it? The IRCC has agreed on it? Or are they planning on talking about implementing it?
<ts2> the IRCC is discussing it
<Pici> I think that the fact that we're even all confused about it means that somewhere the process has broken down and either it is flawed, or perhaps the policy in question is also flawed.
<IdleOne> There is flaw in there somewhere that is for sure
<persia> I certainly heard some concerns as a result of that statement in the UDS session, and have been assuming it was a personal statement, rather than a formal resolution.
<Seeker`> Pici: that was kinda my original point. If the IRCC doesn't even know what it is doing, is right now really the time to be recruting more ops?
<ts2> Seeker`: recruting more ops has nothing to do with the core-ops issue
<Seeker`> ts2: it has everything to do with it.
<ts2> only if we decide to implement core-ops
<Seeker`> ts2: Seeing as I have been told several times that getting more ops in here is dependant on the term being defined
<ts2> as that hasn't happened, it does not
<Seeker`> ts2: you already have!
<Seeker`> There are two types of operators in the Ubuntu IRC channels, Core Operators and Channel Specific Operators.
<Seeker`> A Core Operator is someone who has operator status in all of the Ubuntu core channels.
<Seeker`> There is a definition of a core op on the operator requirements page
<Seeker`> but its a definition that not all the IRCC seem to believe they have agreed to
<Seeker`> and is a severely broken definition
<ts2> that page was wrote when we were planning core-ops, so it was included there. we also created the LP teams for that
<nhandler> Seeker`: We said that we might not have a need to recruit operators for this channel if we get the core op team established (as that would also serve to provide more operators in here). As there currently are no such operators, we are putting out a call for more channel operators in here like we have done for other core channels in the past
<IdleOne> to be an op in here you have to be an existing op in a core-channel?
<Seeker`> nhandler: So why have my requests for more operators in here before been denied due to the pending definition of what a core op is?
<nhandler> IdleOne: To apply to be an OP in here, yes
<Pici> But not a core-operator... which is different.  Its confusing.
<nhandler> Seeker`: They were delayed
<ts2> IdleOne: see our idle policy
<Seeker`> nhandler: is there a difference?
<persia> I'd volunteer as an op here if the definition were different, but I don't have the attention to track most of the current "core channels" enough to have any interest in being an op there.
<Seeker`> persia: there is a difference between a core-op and a core-channel op
<IdleOne> nhandler: I don't think I should have to apply for op status in this channel. actually I think by not having ops in this channel my ability to be effective when resolving issues is limited.
<Seeker`> you would be applying for the latter
<ts2> for the final time, the call for ops in here has nothing to do with the core-ops issue
<nhandler> Seeker`: Yeah. Denied means that it won't happen until the definition does. Delayed means that we wanted to wait to see if the core ops would get established
<Seeker`> ts2: so why was I told it did in the past?
<persia> Seeker`, Sure, but I don't believe I qualify for either.
<Seeker`> nhandler: I was told that it would not happen until the definition does. Therefore it was denied.
<Seeker`> I don't honestly see how you can be recruiting more ops when members of the IRCC cannot agree on what has been defined and what the definitions actually mean. The IRCC is currently extremely broken, and recruiting more people in to the mess is a pretty dumb idea.
<ts2> Seeker`: recruting more ops in here has nothing to do with the core-ops issue
<Seeker`> I get different answers about things from different members of the IRCC, and the answers I get from individual members isn't even self-consistent.
<Seeker`> ts2: Please explain why I was told it was dependant on it before then?
<ts2> if we were waiting on a definition, we would not ask for ops here
<ts2> Seeker`: because we didn't want -ops to be a special-case
<Seeker`> If it is not dependant, why was I told on multiple occasions that it was?
<nhandler> Seeker`: Look at the meeting logs from 2 meetings ago. I believe this was all discussed there
<Seeker`> nhandler: what date was that?
<nhandler> Seeker`: I don't know from memory. Probably second week of October (or around there)
<Seeker`> nhandler: nothing on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/IRCC or https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-irc/2010-October/date.html#start for that time period.
<Seeker`> nhandler: so where are the minutes / log?
<nhandler> Seeker`: Not sure if the minutes/logs got prepared. The raw irc logs are still availabe on irclogs.ubuntu.com
<Seeker`> nhandler: so who failed at "Reference meeting log at MeetingLogs/IRCC" from the fixed agenda items?
<nhandler> Seeker`: It isn't "failing". And the negative attitude isn't helpful. We all have real lives and other obligations. We do as much as we can for Ubuntu in our free time, but other things do come up. You are more than welcome to prepare minutes if you want to. Otherwise, they will get done when someone gets a chance
<Seeker`> nhandler: there was a regular agenda item that wasn't covered. That is a failure on the part of whoever chose to chair the meeting to carry out their duties. If you use mootbot, it isn't even hard to get the logs.
<Pici> Fine.  Someone messed up.
<nhandler> No, someone got busy. This really isn't the end of the world. Sure, having minutes are nice (which is why we added that bullet). But this isn't the first time they haven't gotten done and it won't be the last. Other teams (including councils, development teams, and LoCos) all have similar things happen
<nhandler> As the person who prepares the monthly team reports, I would like to mention that the IRCC is actually one of the better teams when it comes to preparing detailed minutes from their meetings
<Seeker`> nhandler: Ah, you're defensive because you chaired that meeting?
<Pici> Yes, but as I mentioned at the UDS session, we're not too good at documenting what we do outside of the meetings.
<nhandler> Seeker`: No clue, I might have. But I'm defensive because you are attacking instead of trying to have a constructive discussion at this point
<Seeker`> nhandler: because there has been such a big deal over transparency and process in the IRCC over the last year, so much time spent defining procedures, and they aren't even being followed.
<nhandler> Seeker`: Then help us out instead of simply attacking.
<Pici> Stating the issues is helpful, but we need to move beyond that and come up with fixes.
<Seeker`> nhandler: I'm not the one that said I have the time to do the job by applying for it. If I could guarantee I had the time for it, I would apply myself this time round; Sadly due to health issues I can;t.
<IdleOne> Issue: This channel needs more ops, the op call in the email and the calls from current ops on multiple occasions is proof of that. Fix: Take the existing pool of ops and add them to the access list for this channel.
<Pici> Seeker`: You don't need to be on the council to help us.  And I hope that the health issues aren't serious, you're a valued part of the team.
<Pici> Er, that sounded a bit weird, I do really mean it though.
<Seeker`> Well the issues are a) The IRCC can't agree on what it has decided; b) There isn't a consistent definition of what it has (or hasn't) decided on c) The IRCC spends an eternity definiting procedures and documents, resulting in nothing getting done; d) The procdures that took forever to be defined in the interests of transparency and accountability aren't even followed
<Seeker`> The solution: Stop taking 6 weeks to define something simply and follow the procedures the IRCC defined
<Seeker`> There was an agreement that there are more ops needed in here and for this channel to be treated like any other channel on the 9th october
<nhandler> And that is what led to this email
<Seeker`> it took 25 days for that email to then be sent out
<nhandler> Seeker`: Yeah, with UDS in the middle and other stuff going on.
<Seeker`> ts2: how long did that email take to write?
<Pici> Does it matter?
<IdleOne> but this channel is not like any other channel. This is the channel we send users to when there is a problem. When that user is even more of a problem in this channel most of us can't do anything about it but hope that someone with +o in here is active.
<Seeker`> Pici: My point is that the email didn't take (or shouldn't have taken) 25 days to write
<Pici> Seeker`: You're right, but it did.
<Seeker`> There are things that noone other than the IRCC can do. These things are not being done in a timely manner.#
<nhandler> IdleOne: Don't forget, we have *!*@freenode/staff/* on the access list for this channel (as well as all other channels). This means that if no OPs are around, staff can always help out
<nhandler> Seeker`: And writing an email is not one of them
<nhandler> Or at least drafting it isn't
<Seeker`> nhandler: That specific email? Yes, imo
<Seeker`> or could I send an email to the list right now opening applications for #ubuntu-server ops?
<IdleOne> nhandler: freenode staff should not have to get involved. If we had +o in here we wouldn't need to bother them with trivial channel specific issues. Staff has bigger problems of their own to handle.
<Pici> I personally think the problem is that no one attends our meetings, and we end up making decisions in a vaccuum.  As much as we want to make sure that we always have our operators and user's interests in mind we sometimes fail.  Then people only start to complain once we start putting procedures in place.
<Seeker`> nhandler: you are sitting in a channel of 40 or so ops, why on earth do staff need to get involved?
<IdleOne> I didn't get a reminder email for the last meeting.
<Pici> Thats why I'm chaning *my* mind on some of the stuff we've done, because I've realized that our operators hate it.
<ts2> IdleOne: the times are not dynamic
<Seeker`> Pici: Yes, that is a problem, but things like meeting minutes being written up, or taking 25 days to send a short email doesn't help.
<nhandler> IdleOne: The reminders are a convenience. The meetings are all on the fridge (like other meetings in the community) and on the wiki
<IdleOne> nhandler: I am not blaming anyone about not getting a reminder email. Just saying that for me they are very convenient.
<Seeker`> Pici: Since I realised just how badly off track this stuff seems to have gone, I've been to both IRCC meetings to try to contribute.
<nhandler> IdleOne: Glad you like them ;) It didn't help the meeting was Halloween in the US ;)
<Pici> Seeker`: I'm glad you have.  I'm sorry we couldn't get to your issue last meeting.
<persia> Nor that it was during UDS travel for many
<Pici> I want us to succeed, and its hard when we don't get feedback until its too late.  There isn't a particular person to blame about that, I think we're all at fault.
<Seeker`> Pici: can you give a summary of the workload for the IRCC during an average week?
<nhandler> Seeker`: Depends on the week. All I can say is that this week, things like this eat up a LOT of the free time we do have for working on Ubuntu
<Pici> Seeker`: I can't pin down specifics, but we've been spending some time in the past few weeks dealing with loco channel issues, loco logging, etc.
<IdleOne> nhandler: I apologize if I sound negative. I really am not trying to be. I just don't like the idea of separating op, core channel op, core-ops. I feel that the IRCC is the core-op team. the rest are channel ops. certain ops are asked to idle here as part of being an op in certain channels, I am fine with that but why do we need to idle here if we have no real ability to enforce the rules of this channel.
<IdleOne> example: I ask a user to part this channel after an hour of being called names and they refuse to, continue to insult and be rude. I have to call !ops in this channel (with the hope that someone is active with +o) in the mean time I have showed the active troll and the trolls who read the logs that I have no power so what I say means nothing.
 * Pici got hilighted by that.
<IdleOne> sorry
<Pici> Its okay ;)
<Seeker`> One thing I do object to is being told I shouldn't use the ! ops trigger to get a troll removed from here when there isn't anything else going on
<Pici> IdleOne: Thats the type of discussion I'd hope to see at this meeting... whenever it happens.
<Seeker`> for idling etc.
<IdleOne> Pici: all this defining of core channels and core ops is a giant waste of time. this channel has more then enough ops currently in #ubuntu,#k,#x etc that if they were all added to the access list there would be no more need for us using the ops trigger in here.
<IdleOne> I don't want god like powers but I do want all the trolls out there in "log reading land" to know that if they come to this channel they won't be able to get away with abusing us.
<nhandler> IdleOne: And that is certainly one possible solution that has been looked at (and will probably be looked at more in the future if necessary). We also have a few other solutions that we are thinking about to try and decide if they might prove to be even better solutions than either of these
<IdleOne> but right now you are asking for applications, which will take time. This issue is immediate and needs an immediate solution.
<IdleOne> add the current ops to the access list.
<Pici> As much as I don't like beauracracy and I don't you all don't like it either, we can't just do that if its against our current policies. Either we change the policies or we just don't do it.
<Pici> (I also hate trying to remember how to spell beauracracy)
<Seeker`> Are there not enough IRCC members here right now to be quorate? :P
<persia> And the policy changes have to happen in a meeting, for transparency, which is frustrating, but the alternative would be madness.
<IdleOne> the current policy?
<Pici> IdleOne: The one you don't like.
<IdleOne> there is no clear and agreed upon policy
<IdleOne> it's not just me who doesn't like it. there are other members on the ops team who don't like it.
<Pici> IdleOne: I know.....
<IdleOne> good teams have great leaders, great leaders listen to what the team wants.
<IdleOne> the team does not want to wait for another month+ for this
<IdleOne> imho
<Pici> IdleOne: I want to get it sorted out this weekend.
<Seeker`> Jussi still hasn't replied :/
<IdleOne> I hope it can be
<IdleOne> bureaucracy *
<IdleOne> heh it was bugging me
<IdleOne> sorry
<persia> IdleOne, It's not just bureaucracy: it's a *good* thing that policy changes happen in meetings, otherwise there's no way we can know what policy is unless we follow *everything*.  With policy changes restricted to meetings, we can review meeting minutes and know policy.
<Seeker`> persia: sadly, meetings aren't properly documented atm, so it can be hard to know even when stuff is decided in meetings
<persia> Seeker`, I consider that a separate bug :)
<nhandler> Seeker`: It was one meeting. And they all happen on a set schedule, so it is not /too/ much effort to look up the logs on irclogs.ubuntu.com for that day
<IdleOne> persia: I agree with you on when and where policy should be made but if something is broke it needs to be fixed. Talking about maybe considering applying a policy and then pushing it back because every little word/title needs to be defined...uhg it smells of big government.
<persia> It is governance.  We need to do it right.  We need to start from the basis that those we choose to govern us are doing their best, and ask how we can help to make it better.
<IdleOne> well won't way of making it worse is adding more layers of governance
<IdleOne> s/won't/one
<Seeker`> nhandler: fair enough. I'll just point you to the last action of that meeting http://novarata.net/mootbot/ubuntu-meeting.20101009_1500.html
<Seeker`> which was preceded by [15:40:46] <nhandler> In that case, any volunteers to do the post-meeting tasks? If not, I'll do them.
<persia> IdleOne, I agree.  That's why I don't like "core".  I think we ought just have CC/IRCC/OPS, but that has scaling issues, and probably ends up burning out IRCC fast.
<Seeker`> If people are volunteering for stuff they genuinely don't have time for, it needs to be stopped
<nhandler> Seeker`: Yes. I always ask for volunteers first. No one volunteered to do them, so they get done when I get a chance.
<IdleOne> I think we need to stop trying to blame anybody for not having done something. Life happens.
<nhandler> Seeker`: You would rather have us say "Well, there are no volunteers, so they will not get done this meeting" ?
<Pici> IdleOne: agreed.
<Seeker`> nhandler: I would rather have people who say they will do something do it
<Seeker`> imo, if you chair a meeting, you are implicitly saying you agree to do the associated work, and if you don't have time for it you shouldn't do it.
<persia> There's a gap there.
<persia> No.  Chairing a meeting is work needing doing, and adding responsibility for any unclaimed actions in the meeting only makes it harder to find chairs.
<Seeker`> Thats why I wrote mootbot, to make it so easy you have the summary there already, with hyperlinks to the relevant places in the meeting.
<Seeker`> persia: mootbot came about because I chaired a 2 hour long -uk meeting, which I then had to trawl to summarise, because I chaired it.
<Pici> Seeker`: And we all love mootbot.
<Pici> Don't think we don;t.
<persia> Seeker`, Ah, so your assertion is only that chairs should publish minutes, not that they should be responsible for declared actions?  I'm comforable agreeing to that.
<Seeker`> persia: yes
<Pici> Gentlemen, as much as I'd like to continue talking about this, I'd also like to eat. So if you don't mind, don't treat my silence as not caring.
<Pici> Thank you.
<Seeker`> Pici: enjoy
<IdleOne> Bon appetit
#ubuntu-ops 2010-11-04
<Seeker`> o/
<jrib> #debian getting hit
<IdleOne> is he serious or just trolling?
<jrib> IdleOne: clueless or trolling... hard to tell
<IdleOne> i think it's a little of both
<Seeker`> putty sucks for UTF-8
<IdleOne> heh
<IdleOne> noted
<Seeker`> !cn
<ubottu> For Ubuntu help in Chinese æ¨å¯ä»¥è®¿é®ä¸­æé¢éï¼ #ubuntu-cn æè #ubuntu-tw  æè #ubuntu-hk
<Seeker`> yeah, doesn't display at all
<Wuubuy_> hello my name is Bill Goodman. I am use to meeting girls from the internet and they unexpectedly farting when my dick is in their butt. I hope that breaks some ice. I am not a man of high expectations. So i hope some of the girls here won't mind speaking up. I am sure you are great people in heart.
<IdleOne> !ops
<ubottu> Help! Channel emergency! (ONLY use this trigger in emergencies) -  Tm_T, tritium, elky, Nalioth, tonyyarusso, imbrandon, PriceChild, Madpilot, Myrtti, mneptok, Pici, tsimpson, gnomefreak, jussi, topyli, or nhandler!
<ubottu> IdleOne called the ops in #ubuntu-ops ()
<maco> !ops
<ubottu> maco called the ops in #ubuntu-ops ()
<Wuubuy_> hi
<maco> IdleOne: wahh why are you always faster than me?
<maco> tonyyarusso: thank ye
<IdleOne> maco: I have certain words on "extreme highlight $me"
<maco> well i got the highlights because of "girls"
<maco> i just typed a longer kick message in #ubuntu
<Seeker`> maco: you have girls on hilight?
<maco> Seeker`: yes
<Seeker`> does that get triggered much?
<maco> at least 5 times a day
<Seeker`> and how likely is it that a troll triggered it?
<maco> trolls? infrequent. sexist douchebags? about 1/3-1/2 the time
<maco> (the other half is "im gonna go have dinner with my girlfriend now" or "im a parent of two little girls" etc)
<maco> this is how i catch "ugh why are girls so stupid?!" conversations in #ubuntu-offtopic
<tonyyarusso> mneptok: Do you know of anyone I could talk to who would be likely to know of general predictions for job openings at Canonical in Montreal Q3/4 2011?
 * tonyyarusso would prefer something a little closer to Minnesota, but there seem to be a lot more options in Montreal than Thunder Bay, so I guess I should look
<ubottu> ilovefairuz called the ops in #ubuntu (segin)
<aborticide> how to make font smaller in virtualbox ?
<Flannel> aborticide: #ubuntu is the place for support, not here.  Thanks
<aborticide> can i be unmuted, please?
<IdleOne> aborticide: for virtualbox try #vbox as for the mute I will leave that up to bazhang
<aborticide> okay thanks
<aborticide> but fonts is an ubuntu issue
<mneptok> tonyyarusso: if things are the same as when i left, openings aren't that well known beforehand. best to just watch the job listings on the Canonical site.
<tonyyarusso> mneptok: noted.  Care to share other Canadian places I should consider?
<mneptok> tonyyarusso: don't really know many.
<mneptok> tonyyarusso: i was only there for 3 years, and moved there for work and left when i left the job.
<elky> looks like thefeds is out and about again
<ikonia> marienz: are you there ?
<marienz> ikonia: somewhat
<ikonia> marienz: was it you who spoke to Bacta about this jewkonia stuff recently ?
<marienz> ikonia: no
<marienz> ikonia: is he still at it?
<ikonia> rats, do you know who it was
<ikonia> http://pastebin.com/UCePXX0P
<marienz> ikonia: not off the top of my head, but relaying through me probably works anyway
<ikonia> he's upped the game now trying to actually associate himself with me
<jpds> How very strange.
<ubottu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (crankyadmin appears to be abusive - 4)
<ikonia> hello wells
<wells> hi
<ikonia> how can we help today ?
<wells> is this chan concern abuse for ubuntu-fr ?
<ikonia> wells: that would be #ubuntu-irc
<wells> tkx
<burnmedvdiso> please remove ikonia from admins
<ikonia> hi burnmedvdiso sorry for having to forward you here, I tried to talk to you in pm but you where not responding
<burnmedvdiso> atleast his mute and kick privlages
<ikonia> burnmedvdiso: I'd put a temporary quiet on you in the channel while I asked you to stop with the smart comments in #ubuntu, it's a busy channel and needs to stay on topic,
<burnmedvdiso> that is all good day
<ikonia> if you don't wish to disucuss / resolve your removal then, that is all, thank you and please leave the channel.
<burnmedvdiso> it was fine untill you showed up.. again..
<ikonia> burnmedvdiso: do you wish to discuss/resolve your removal, yes/no ?
<burnmedvdiso> this is repetive, ikonia i wish you would just leave me alone..
<ikonia> burnmedvdiso: do you wish to discuss/resolve your removal, yes/no ?
<ikonia> that's the only question we need an answer to
<burnmedvdiso> yes... thats y i came here
<ikonia> ok,
<ikonia> firstly, I'm sorry I had to remove you and forward you here, but you where not responding to private messages
<burnmedvdiso> ugh..
<ikonia> I put a short quiet on you to explain that the smart comments where not needed, just need to keep with the ubuntu support channel topic,
<burnmedvdiso> does anyone else but ikonia talk?
<ikonia> burnmedvdiso: as you don't wish to resolve your removal, please leave the channel
<burnmedvdiso> or was present in #ubuntu?
<ikonia> burnmedvdiso: I have asked you straight if you wish to resolve it and you are ignoring the conversation
<burnmedvdiso> i am not
<Seeker`> yes, but ikonia is doing a good job, so ill let him continue
<burnmedvdiso> really?
<ikonia> burnmedvdiso: this is the last time I'll ask - do you wish to resolve this ban foward, yes/no ?
<burnmedvdiso> i find it on the edge of harrasssment / abuse of privlages
<burnmedvdiso> yes
<ikonia> burnmedvdiso: then respond to me - and I'll explain how to make a complaint once the issue is resolved
<burnmedvdiso> i have?
<ikonia> burnmedvdiso: you've not, you've ignored everything I've said
<Seeker`> you wont get anything different from anyone else, so if you want to get back in to #ubuntu you nees to talk to him
<ikonia> burnmedvdiso: I've explained it was a temporary quiet while I explained to you to keep with the topic, if your comfortable keeping with the topic then I'm happy to remove the ban/quiet and let you re-join
<burnmedvdiso> seeker i have not had any issues with any other admins just ikonia
<ikonia> I only had to forward you here as you did not respond to any pm's
<burnmedvdiso> he has a long history with me
<ikonia> I don't even know you
<burnmedvdiso> and i wish for him to leave me alone
<ikonia> I've never spoke/banned you before
<burnmedvdiso> and stop muteing for a oneline that is off topic...
<burnmedvdiso> or in all cases
<burnmedvdiso> not at all off=topic
<Seeker`> burnmedvdiso: feel free to ppart the channel then. your ban will not be removed unless you are willing to discuss it with ikonia
<ikonia> burnmedvdiso: as I explained, I asked you to get on topic, you ignored it and tried to be clever with me, I asked again, you tried to be clever again, I muted you and sent you a pm, you ignored it, I forwarded you here, now we are up to date
<ikonia> I'm not aware of any other history with you as I don't know your nickname and I've never banned or muted you before
<burnmedvdiso> this is the 8th time i was in a convo ubuntu relevent and you muted me!!
<ikonia> burnmedvdiso: I've never muted you before or seen your nickname before, do you use other nicknames ?
<burnmedvdiso> ugh w/e please un mute me i'll just log off when you join
<ikonia> burnmedvdiso: no
<ikonia> burnmedvdiso:  do you use other nicknames ?
<burnmedvdiso> no..
<ikonia> burnmedvdiso: have we had conflict under other nicknames ?
<burnmedvdiso> not that werent resolved
<ikonia> then I have never muted or banned you or seen your nickname before , and you are telling lies, so I'll end this discussion
<burnmedvdiso> lies?
<ikonia> our records show this nickname has never been banned before
<burnmedvdiso> good
<ikonia> so eitber you are telling lies about using other nicknames or me banning you
<ikonia> either way, I'll end this conversation
<burnmedvdiso> i'm not lieing at all..
<ikonia> burnmedvdiso: so why do our records not show any other bans ?
<burnmedvdiso> this convo isnt over untill i have chat rights back..
<ikonia> burnmedvdiso: then you need to answer the questions
<Pici> Then you need to talk to ikonia about it, instead of making comments that hes the worst op etc.
<burnmedvdiso> o.0?
<burnmedvdiso> i never said that, only provided examples
<Seeker`> this isnt going anywhere
<Pici> Clearly.
<burnmedvdiso> i wont talk in chat when ikonia is on...
<burnmedvdiso> that much i'm comfy with
<Pici> burnmedvdiso: Then I don't think we'll be resolving this any time soon.
<Seeker`> burnmedvdiso: please leave then.
<Pici> !appeals > burnmedvdiso
<ubottu> burnmedvdiso, please see my private message
<ikonia> burnmedvdiso: sorry that is not acceptable
<burnmedvdiso> as i can't get one line out when he is on
<burnmedvdiso> ubott thats not even what we are disscussing here
<burnmedvdiso> ...
<burnmedvdiso> <ikonia> I've muted you for a moment in #ubuntu, you don't need to get smart or have an attitude, you where just asked to follow the topic, either "ok" or just following the topic is enough [04:39] <ikonia> I'm happy to remove the mute if you just get with it a little more [04:39] == ikonia [~mattd@unaffiliated/ikonia] [04:39] ==  realname : Matt Darcy [04:39] ==  channels : #ubuntu [04:39] ==  server   : hubbard.freenode.ne
<Pici> Okay?
<burnmedvdiso> who is being smart here?
<Pici> I see ikonia being courteous to you.
<burnmedvdiso> what does he mean by attitude and get with it?
<burnmedvdiso> where did i go wrong past my 2-3 lines of text?
<burnmedvdiso> what was offtopic where you felt it was?
<burnmedvdiso> how do you ikonia, feel that phrase was off topic?
<ikonia> oh, sorry, I wasn't responding as I didn't think you where progressing it with me
<ikonia> the offtopic comments where discussing hardware
<ikonia> and then the follow up comments to me asking you to stop
<ikonia> the other person discussing his hardware issues was also directed to stop, and did
<burnmedvdiso> the psu was causeing issues with ubuntu..
<ikonia> possible, and that was being worked through, but he was partly ranting about his hardware and you where just slating brands
<burnmedvdiso> ah
<ikonia> if you look after you where muted he was brought back into working through the hardware issue within ubuntu
<burnmedvdiso> so no discussion of brands mainly...
<ikonia> no
<ikonia> it's nothing to do with not naming brands, but your comments about brand A being poor where just fueling his rant
<ikonia> he needed to return to resolving the issue
<burnmedvdiso> even tho that help diagnose issues...
<ikonia> it didn't help
<ikonia> it was fueling his rant, which is why it returned to the problem in relation to ubuntu
<burnmedvdiso> you didnt let it...is what i'm saying
<ikonia> well, after I muted you, it got there pretty quick
<ikonia> and if you had responded to my pm, I would have removed the mute, as I said I was happy to
<ikonia> instead you've decided to make things up about me banning you 8 times
<burnmedvdiso> lol it was playful chatter i wasnt gonna let it go past 1-2 lines
<burnmedvdiso> i didnt...
<burnmedvdiso> and i won't
<ikonia> burnmedvdiso: have I banned you 8 times befoe ?
<ikonia> before
<burnmedvdiso> only once and that was in error..we corrected it
<ikonia> then why did you say 8 times earlier
<burnmedvdiso> mutes is anther story tho xD
<ikonia> and why do our records show no other bans
<ikonia> there are no records of any other mutes
<burnmedvdiso> good
<ikonia> so how can I have banned/muted you 8 times before
<burnmedvdiso> i'd like to keep it that way
<ikonia> so how can I have banned/muted you 8 times before
<burnmedvdiso> you did.. even tho there are no logs of it
<burnmedvdiso> my brain doesnt keep logs
<burnmedvdiso> it remembers xD
<ikonia> burnmedvdiso: ok, so what I'm going to do because the records are so conflicting
<ikonia> I'm going to leave the ban in place while I go through the logs and find out if you are telling lies or not
<burnmedvdiso> wow dude...
<ikonia> there are a lot of logs and it will take a while, but you are saying our auto system missed 8 bans/quiets and I have no memory of ever seeing you before
<burnmedvdiso> pazsion...
<burnmedvdiso> ubufool...
<ikonia> that is a big statement to make, when there are no records (which auto create) and I have no reference of it
<ikonia> burnmedvdiso: that's where we stand. It will take a few days to search the logs, I'll send you a memo on memo serve when the investigation is complete
<burnmedvdiso> i've changed pc's
<burnmedvdiso> dude
<ikonia> burnmedvdiso: that doesn't matter
<ikonia> burnmedvdiso: the logs will show that
<burnmedvdiso> i gave you the info
<ikonia> what info ?
<burnmedvdiso> you dont have to search anything...
<ikonia> what info
<Pici> Can we try to deal with the issue at hand.
<burnmedvdiso> nicknames i've used that were muted or banned by you
<burnmedvdiso> ikonia your getting off topic -.-
<ikonia> Pici: I am doing, I've explained why this person was banned, no problem resolving that, but if he's making statements about 8 previous mutes then there is either a problem with this user, and our tracking system
<ikonia> burnmedvdiso: I've not seen the other nicknames (you said you didn't' use any) which ones are they and I'll check now
<ikonia> burnmedvdiso: if you have the other nicknames I'll check now (very quick) and we can put this to bed
<burnmedvdiso> pazsion and ubufool i belive, i have not used other nicks on this pc....
<ikonia> ahh, I see
<ikonia> I didn't realise they where nicknames
<ikonia> 1 moment and I'll check
<burnmedvdiso> well i did first log on this chat with pazsio n today
<burnmedvdiso> on this pc..
<burnmedvdiso> i hope that doesnt mess up the entire log =c
<ikonia> nope, not at all
<ikonia> again our records don't show either of those users
<burnmedvdiso> i kno it's been a while but, you forgot me already =/
<ikonia> but as you've decided to now explain the truth that you do use other nicknames, I'll be happy to remove the mute in #ubuntu if you can agree to stick with the ubuntu support topic
<burnmedvdiso> well then that is good
<burnmedvdiso> i've been telling you the truth the whole time...i don't use other nicks...
<ikonia> you've just told me 2 others that you do use
<burnmedvdiso> pazsion is primary, and then others are relevent to my issues <<example
<ikonia> so they are "other nicknames"
<burnmedvdiso> wow
<ikonia> as I've said though, if you are happy to keep with the topic in #ubuntu I'll be happy to remove the ban
<burnmedvdiso> kk guys i'm out of here sorry you had to witness this... but i do need witnesses sometimes
<burnmedvdiso> and ty ikonia
<ikonia> burnmedvdiso: so you can keep with the topic in #ubuntu yes/no ?
<burnmedvdiso> yes, can you let people chat before you mute them?
<ikonia> burnmedvdiso: no
<ikonia> burnmedvdiso: please listen one more time
<burnmedvdiso> ell then
<ikonia> the topic is "support" not chatter
<burnmedvdiso> well then
<ikonia> please keep with support and there will be no problem
<ikonia> is that acceptable
<burnmedvdiso> you need to "chatter" to find solutions..
<ikonia> ok, but please keep it relevant to the issue, not random
<burnmedvdiso> sigh...
<ikonia> I'm trying here, but your smart responses are not helping
<burnmedvdiso> i'm not trying to be "smart"
<ikonia> this is exactly what got you muted,
<ikonia> then just respond, clearly and sensibly
<burnmedvdiso> i'm trying to understand why you are the way you are, and how you go about things
<ikonia> keep the topic relevant to the problem, and there will be no issues
<ikonia> is that acceptable ?
<burnmedvdiso> you create issues...by making on topic things..offtopic.. that is your opinion...not what is actually happening...that's the problem..and yes
<ikonia> burnmedvdiso: I'll ask one more time
<ikonia> keep the topic relevant to the problem, and there will be no issues
<ikonia> is that acceptable ?
<burnmedvdiso> yes again
<ikonia> great, I'll remove the ban
<burnmedvdiso> ty
<ikonia> the ban has been removed, you can leave this channel and re-join #ubuntu
<burnmedvdiso> you have a good day...
<ikonia> there is more to that than meets the eye, I have no recollection of ever banning/muting him before,
<ikonia> the records show nothing
<Pici> That was odd.
<ikonia> I found it odd, yes
<seeker> Yeah, might be worth keeping an eye on him
<seeker> Professional troll IMO, he spent a lot of effort arguing about everything but the ban
<ikonia> I'm sure he'll be back with the nick webcamdead or something like that
<ikonia> not sure if there was a bit of a language issue there
<seeker> Every time you tried to talk to him about the ban, he started talking about something else
<seeker> Like how unfair it was, or how you were mistreating him
<ikonia> I'm hoping that was just his frustration and wanted to make an issue out of me banning him
<ikonia> I was more curious as to him saying he has a regular problem with me and I've banned him many times
<seeker> Maybe, but it is pretty classic serial-troll behaviour.
<ikonia> not sure if that was just to make it look like I was picking on him
<ikonia> possible
<jpds> seeker: How much do you think he charges per troll?
<seeker> jpds: He pays himself in 'lulz'
<ubottu> FloodBotK1 called the ops in #kubuntu-ops-monitor (repeated abuse from Peace-)
<seeker> People that dive off on a tangent the second the reason for the ban is brought up tend to be here a lot.
<Tm_T> we do, thanks (:
<IdleOne> ikonia: that burnmedvdiso person was the same person with the modified flash binary.
<Pici> proof?
<IdleOne> same evasion pattern when op asks about reason for banning
<Pici> Thats hardly evidence.
<IdleOne> fine
<IdleOne> but they were ban evading
<IdleOne> if you believe it was the same person that is
<Seeker`> IdleOne: lots of trolls do that
<Seeker`> a "good" troll will derail the conversation from the topic that is meant to be discussed (i.e. the ban) at every chance they get, because they know the conversation wont end until it is discussed
<Seeker`> which is how we end up with 2 hour long arguments in here
<ikonia> IdleOne: totally differnet ISP, oly256 seems to stick to the same IP for all the problems he's been
<ikonia> IdleOne: oly265 is normally VERY abusive
<IdleOne> I stand corrected. Very similar arguing patterns though
<ubottu> FloodBot4 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit)
<ubottu> FloodBot3 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit)
<ubottu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit)
<ubottu> FloodBot2 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit)
<ubottu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (fe1ipe appears to be abusive - 5)
<niko> mind if +r a little ?
<Seeker`> niko: I don't mind
<IdleOne> +r is set
<IdleOne> Also I don't think anybody will mind if you feel thee is a need to set +r
<IdleOne> there*
<ikonia> marienz: again bacta has returned to be an issue
<marienz> ikonia: channel?
<ikonia> #ubuntu-us
<ikonia> ahhh he's gone again
<marienz> and/or nick
<ikonia> bacta
<ikonia> I'm pretty annoyed still over the #css incident this morning where he is claiming to be associated with me as a jew
<marienz> please prod me if he shows up again
<ikonia> no problem, sorry for the slow response
<marienz> it's irc, slow responses happen, I'm the last one to complain about those :)
<ikonia> yes, but I also don't want to abuse you as my personal bacta police
<ubottu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (BANLIST FULL, REMOVE SOME BANS)
<ikonia> was mike_deb_h jacksparrow ?
<elky> whoa, wait, we're advertising "want to be an ubuntu op" in the topic of *offtopic*...?
<ikonia> simpley stupid
 * elky searches for army disposal outlets nearby
<ikonia> sorry to say it
<elky> imma build myself a fort.
<ikonia> if you want to be an op, the wiki page says you should be subscribed to the mail list
<ikonia> the advert went out on the mail list, that's enough
<Pici> And the planet
<ikonia> great, and the planet too
<ikonia> why did it not just go out on the mail list ?
<ikonia> who did it ?
<elky> topyli i think
<ikonia> did the whole council agree to this ?
<elky> I dunno, but it's hardly ideal targetting. the people in the support-giving collaboration spaces are a more streamlined target than -ot
<Pici> Which?
<elky> Pici, planet
<ikonia> the advertising in the topic, the advertising on planet ?
<elky> the -ot topic suggests tonyyarusso
<Pici> elky: We did that last time we asked for ops too.
<ikonia> who decided we needed more ops ?
<ikonia> (not that I'm disagreeing I just don't remember seeing it discussed on the list)
<Pici> Its been discussed for a while...
<ikonia> where ?
<elky> ikonia, uds discussion
<ikonia> I wasn't at uds
<ikonia> neither was %70 of the operator team
<elky> i'm aware. im still not sure why topyli was summoned but why you werent when you had agenda items
<ikonia> I am getting VERY fed up of the council acting in "our" interests without asking "us"
<Pici> It wasn't to go over agenda items, it was to go over our plans for the cycle.
 * persia feels fairly firmly that decisions have to be made in the regular meetings, regardless of UDS.  UDS is a wonderful way to discuss stuff, but actions ought result in agenda items being brought to meetings and people writing position papers.
<persia> It's ugly and annoying, but this is governance.
<ikonia> no it's not
<topyli> hrm
<persia> ikonia, Hrm?  How not?
<elky> it's so far proving to be ineffective governance
<topyli> elky: fwiw, i said i'd be there but forgot. then i was nicely reminded
<persia> elky, That's a bug we ought fix.  Only by participating can we have successful governance.
<ikonia> persia: sorry, I worded that wrong, I agree that decisions shouldn't be made at UDS, there is a mailing list that we are obliged to subscribe to and meetings to discuss this
<elky> there's bureaucracy being made for the point of trying to prove that something is being done, whereby the something isn't really anything more than "creation of red tape"
<persia> ikonia, Sure.  I agree.  I also think that UDS offers higher-bandwidth discussion space, and that it remains worth having discussions there, which ought be brought back to the mailing list and the meetings.
<Pici> I suggest reading over yesterday's logs from this channel.  I'm not sure I want to have this same conversation again.
<elky> Whereas I suggest having it until it's fixed.
<persia> elky, bureaucracy is not my favourite means of governance, but any governance necessarily involves documentation and checks&balances.  Staying away from bureaucracy is tricky, but doable, especially so long as the means of raising changes remains open to all, rather than requiring approval (which I believe to be currently true)
<Pici> I'd prefer constructive discussion.  Harping on the problems is useful once, but it gets old.
 * persia agrees with Pici in terms of implementation
<elky> persia, the bureacracy being created is slowing things that really need to be sped up, not slowed
<persia> elky, I understand your position.  I still think the best resolution would be to draft a counterproposal and add it to the agenda of the next meeting (preferably having sent it to the mailing list for discussion beforehand)
<persia> This is not extremely lightweight, but anything less seems to result in constant complaints about people not getting informed.
<Pici> Agreed.  This is one of the reasons why I suggested that we move our meeting times so that we aren't making decisions in a vaccuum.
<topyli> making them in vacuums would lighten the bureaucracy though! :)
<persia> Yeah, but at a cost.
<topyli> last joke, i promise :)
<persia> I dislike bureaucracy, but not to the extent of preferring anarchy.
<topyli> there is no no agenda of "increasing bureaucracy" really. we need to make clear so that everyone may know how stuff is done. when it works badly, it will be changed
<topyli> so "please lighten the bureaucracy" is not a real request. "please fix issue X" is
<elky> topyli, it's not 'lighten the bureaucracy', it's 'this isn't something that bureacracy is going to fix, rather it will make it worse'
<Seeker`> ikonia: the decision was made in a meeting on the 9th October.
<elky> and when you make *more* processes you by default make more bureaucracy
<ikonia> I missed that meeting, so my fault
<Seeker`> ikonia: It was decided that -ops would be treated like every other channel, and that nhandler would send a mail to the -irc list requesting applications.
<elky> ikonia, i asked jussi to call you. i don't have your #
<Seeker`> ikonia: I would point you to the meeting minutes, but nhandler assigned them to himself and hasn't gotten round to it yet.
<topyli> *poke* :)
<Seeker`> ikonia: i forgot about what happened in the meeting, and  I was there. It did take 25 days after the meeting to get the email out.
<Seeker`> did jussi explicitly refuse to get in contact with ikonia about it?
<persia> Seeker`, So the UDS effect was more a matter of enforcing implementation of a previously agreed action than taking a decision?
<elky> Seeker`, he refused to acknowledge my repeated requests. (this is about the uds session which ikonia wanted to discuss things)
<Seeker`> persia: the decision to recruit ops for -ops was taken on the 9th october in an IRCC meeting.
<Seeker`> persia: I don't know about the other channels
<elky> are we talking 2 different 'meetings' here?
<topyli> i didn't know the whole irc team has to collectively agree on whether or not more ops are needed somewhere
<Seeker`> elky: I have no idea
<topyli> the -ops issue was raised, and other channels were need as well. so more ops are being recruited
<persia> We don't, although ops in any given channel do like to be consulted about getting more ops in that channel.
<topyli> -ops ops requested more ops iirc
<Seeker`> topyli: tbf, discussions that don't require privacy should take place in public
<topyli> Seeker`: you honestly don't want *that* much noise here
<persia> topyli, That makes sense, and matches my memory of bundles of us clamouring for more ops here in the past.
<Seeker`> topyli: doesn't have to be here. Should be somewhere though.
<Seeker`> just so there is a public record of what was decided when
<nhandler> And to be fair, the agreed upon process does say that the email gets sent out when the IRCC notices the need for more OPs in a particular channel.
<Seeker`> y'know, in the interests of procedure, transparency
<Seeker`> nhandler: Yes, it does. That isn't the point being debated.
<Seeker`> nhandler: the point being discussed is whether there should be visibility of the discussion that led up to the email being sent
<elky> nhandler, does it also say to advertise it to the chaotic rabble that is #ubuntu-offtopic?
<topyli> elky: yes the chaotic rabble over there is a good place
<Seeker`> :O naughty jrib
<elky> topyli, i disagree
<topyli> i see that
<nhandler> elky: That is fine, you are welcome to disagree. And just because it is advertised there and people there *might* apply doesn't mean they will necessarily get accepted
<elky> luring the wrong people to apply is not going to end well, especially if they're the ones who already argue about op decisions
<Seeker`> nhandler: do you believe that discussions by the IRCC about topics like whether more ops are needed should be kept private and hidden?
<nhandler> Seeker`: They weren't. As you saw by quoting meeting logs, the topic of recruiting more OPs has come up several times in public places
<topyli> elky: there are fine people in -ot
<Seeker`> nhandler: the logs only showed discussion of more ops in here. Not #u or -ot
<elky> topyli, those fine people are also elsewhere
<elky> topyli, talk to signal. -ot is noise.
<topyli> elky: all of them? :o
<Seeker`> yes, the topic has been adressed in public. But not all of the discussion was.
<elky> topyli, the majority, yes.
<Seeker`> there is, believe it or not, a difference between "some" and "all2
<elky> the loud, noisy, entitled majority.
<topyli> wow the other place is big
<Seeker`> nhandler: and I really wish you would stop picking up on technicalities that are tangential to the matter in hand in the hope of derailing the topic.
<persia> Wait, we can't expect everything to happen somewhere visible to everyone.
<persia> In development, there was a case of that happening during the maverick cycle: everything happened transparently and in public, and because of that, there wasn't much discussion, and nobody was happy with the implementation.
<persia> It's better to have a mix of public and private discussion, to keep the discussions alive, and have public review and decision.
<Seeker`> persia: why not? Surely all of this process and red tape that has been introduced is in the interests of transparency. Why shouldnt decisions that arent required to be hidden, be hidden#
 * persia asks for a reread
<Seeker`> persia: but atm there isn't public discussion at all on some things
<elky> persia, and I wish that we were able to follow discretion, rather than walk a long, winding line of tape.
<Seeker`> persia: things are discussed in private, annoucned, and thats it
<Seeker`> and then because they have already been decided, require 3 months to get the matter brought up with all the interested parties present
<persia> Seeker`, In toto, I agree that's an issue, but I think the problem is with the "announced, and that's it" part, and I think arguing the discussion side only adds to our inability to act.
<Seeker`> persia: pardon?
<persia> elky, How can't we?
<persia> Seeker`, I argue that private discussions are fine, as long as there are public proposals and public decisions.
<elky> persia, well we can. The reaction when we do isn't so favourable though.
<Seeker`> persia: atm, all -irc discussions are public, because they happen on a public mailing list, or in logged channels
<persia> elky, I think that's something that has to be solved by specifics, unfortunately.
<elky> Like, for instance, when someone gets temporary ops to deal with a touchy situation.
<persia> Seeker`, Except for the bits that happen in /query, sure :)
<Seeker`> the IRCC can make decisions totally in private, without any consultation from the people that the decisions actually make a difference to
<persia> Sure, but doing so isn't likely to have them get appointed next time there's a selection cycle.
<persia> Ubuntu isn't a democracy, at all, in any way.  That doesn't mean that the governors aren't subject to the will of the governed, only that it's more indirect.
<persia> So I don't think it's a problem that the IRCC *can* do that.  I think it's irresponsible if they do that too much, and I suspect that they are more likely to be reconfirmed if they have a participative process to develop policy.
<persia> But I'm getting to the edge of where I can have an opinion, sadly, because this is interesting.
<Seeker`> persia: maybe it isn't, but the IRCCi s meant to ensure the smooth running of the Ubuntu IRC. At the moment, that isn't happening. There are nightly arguments between the IRCC and the people they are meant to be governing, along with an apparent dismissal of the opinions of people that aren't on the IRCC, but have served before, or been ops for a while, as irrelevant
<elky> That's a chasm that's only appeared in the past 6 months
<elky> or maybe 9 months, but still. it never used to be there.
<Seeker`> The fact that it has appeared at all shows that something is being done wrong.
<persia> Speaking only as a junior OP, I agree with you.  I just happen to think we'd do better to document how we want it to work, submit that to the ML, and come to agreement in the meetings.
<elky> things weren't perfect before. but by $deity they are worse now.
<Seeker`> persia: "junior op"?
<maco> <persia> Sure, but doing so isn't likely to have them get appointed next time there's a selection cycle.  <--- unless they run uncontested....
<elky> persia, when im home and unpacked etc, I'm going to take a look at drafting a proposal
<elky> maco, oh, what happens then is that they dismiss the result of the nomination process and manufacture some
<persia> maco, Even then.  Read the charter.  IRCC is *appointed*.  Votes are only a means of providing input to the appointing body.
<Seeker`> elky: have you confirmed your nomination yet?
<persia> Seeker`, Yes.  I'm an op in a bunch of obscure channels, and I'm most definitely not wearing any other hats for the purposes of this discussion.
<elky> Seeker`, i'm talking about last time
<persia> elky, Cool.  Thanks for taking that up.
<Seeker`> elky: I was just asking about this time, as I haven't recieved an email from the IRCC like I asked to say you had
<elky> Seeker`, but yes, i keep meaning to send that mail, but this involves arguing with squirrelmail on dreamhost which isn't so pretty. i only have my work notebook with me
<Seeker`> heh, thats what I use :P
<Seeker`> persia: your opinion is just as valid
<elky> do you have to wade through ubuntu-user mailing list spam?
<Seeker`> persia: we don't really have "junior" and "senior" ops
<Seeker`> elky: not subscribed to that one, but I redirect mailing lists to different folders
<persia> Seeker`, fair.  I just wanted to be extra clear that I'm not in any way speaking as CC.
<elky> Seeker`, oh, im not subscribed either. im just still listed as a mod, which means all kinds of mail finds me in all kinds of ways
<elky> it's how i find out when new lists appear. all "oh, i haven't seen that ML name before..."
<popey> Rad- looks suspicious
<popey> in #u
<Jordan_U> Rad- in #ubuntu is likely a troll.
<popey> heh
<popey> elky: would you like to be removed as a mod?
<popey> (of ubuntu-users)
<ikonia> night all
<elky> popey, i think so. it's no point if im not getting the mails to mod, eh
<popey> ok
<elky> popey, i only found out this week that i was still listed as mod. i didn't even think that unsubscribing didn't alter that.
<popey> elky: done
<elky> popey, <3
<elky> also, I was sad at the lack of marmite party :(
<popey> wut wut wut!
<popey> slackers
<persia> There was a lack of marmite party?  Where?  When?
<elky> at UDS :(
<elky> At least, i wasn't made aware of it.
<popey> Something Must Be Done!
<persia> Which night?
<persia> What?  How can you be sad at a party you weren't made aware of?
<elky> persia, because popey promised me one :(
<popey> i couldn't get to UDS :(
<elky> But then there was a lack of popey
<persia> popey got stuck on the wrong side of the atlantic, as far as I could tell.
<persia> popey, So next time you'll carefully organise a party without permitting any marmite?
 * popey hugs his marmite XO
<elky> popey, i have however now tasted british marmite though. A friend in SF had some.
<elky> I waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaant
<Seeker`> :D
<Seeker`> you'll have to come here elky
<elky> it's like a whole different *mite, and equally nommable
<elky> Seeker`, you need to move your country closer :(
<Seeker`> marmite <3
<popey> http://twitter.com/popey/status/329575536009216 for elky
<elky> I promise, I'm not licking my screen.
<popey> :)
<elky> Really. I swear I"m not.
 * persia hands elky an alcohol wipe
<Seeker`> mmmm, TFT goodness? :P
<elky> Heh
<Seeker`> Has the IRCC ever considered a referendum of the op team on issues that are obviously causing a rift between the IRCC and op team?
<persia> is there a list of those?
<Seeker`> a list of what?
<persia> " issues that are obviously causing a rift between the IRCC and op team"
<persia> I don't think a call for opinions (or votes) for a list of issues that doesn't exist can help.
<Seeker`> well, one seems to be the defintion of what a core-ops is
<persia> If there is a list, we need to identify positions for each of them, and then we can poll.
<Seeker`> how ops are chosen in here is another (although related)
<Seeker`> and there seems to be a general dissatifaction about the timelyness of IRCC decisions, although that isn't really something you can construction a motion to vote on
<Seeker`> elky: anything I've missed?
<persia> timeliness is problematic over the entirely of Ubuntu governance, sadly
 * persia is part of the problem, and feels appropriately guilty, and still doesn't have a solution
<Seeker`> persia: It took 25 days between the decision being taken to recruit more ops in here and the email being sent
#ubuntu-ops 2010-11-05
<persia> It's been something like 4 months since one member of the DMB retired and we might have a new one in a few weeks.  25 days is faster than some groups act.  (yes, this is a problem, but take it in comparison to others, and realise we can't complain usefully: better to praise when things happen quickly)
<elky> Seeker`, we need to identify what the breaking points are before we can do any referendum'ing.
<elky> discussions to lay out these breaking points are so far being hushed away by various means
<Seeker`> elky: can you think of others that I didn't list, just off the top of your head?
<Seeker`> persia: I can't think of a good reason for a 25 day turnaround for a 300-word email
<elky> Seeker`, i think the lack of definition of the core ops is not a problem in itself, but an indicator of problems
<elky> Seeker`, the processes being made are broken.
<persia> elky, So, let's identify them.  I don't see any hushing.  The trick is just to identify issues and postitions *without* getting involved in discussion at first.
<elky> persia, lack of discussions outside of meetings is one of the problems.
<elky> Saying something only to be greeted with "put it on the agenda" of a meeting I can't make doesn't help at all.
<persia> Seeker`, I'm ~200 days behind on one email I need to send.  25 days is unfortunate, but I really think the better way to solve these things is to commend prompt action, rather than complain about slow action.  As someone often behind, I know I respond better to carrots than sticks.
<elky> It doesn't /look/ like hushing, but the people saying this know darn well what the effect is.
<persia> elky, Agreed.  Get someone else to put "rotating meeting times" on the agenda, and I'll join you once it's approved :)
<Seeker`> Items are also postponed for meeting after meeting, usually due to 1 person unable to make it
<elky> Seeker`, and a council that was only half there and didn't move to fix that issue.
<elky> and being on the AO RMB, I know full well how hard that /can/ be, but there was an excess of applicants a year ago... it's not impossible.
<nhandler> persia: They are 20:00 UTC and 18:00 UTC, so there are 2 different times, but neither would probably work well for you sadly
<Seeker`> often discussions with the IRCC seem to head along the lines of: "6 months ago, X was supposed to happen, what happened to it?" and the response is either a shrug or "we are working on drafting a proposal for a discussion on whether we should consider it"
<elky> 2 hours difference isn't rotation
<persia> nhandler, No, not really (nor elky, who has nearly the same time constraints as I)
<Seeker`> elky: it is! before dinner, after dinner!
<persia> Seeker`, I've encountered that with other councils/boards as well.  When I'm a member of the board, this makes me feel guilty.  When I'm not a member, I find that if I just draft something and submit it, this results in the board editing my draft and getting on with it.
<Seeker`> persia: at the last meeting, ikonia was frustrated because the policy on managed/unmanaged shells hadn't progressed. He essentially emailed the IRCC a proposal months ago, and it hadn't been enacted yet
<elky> Seeker`, was it only to the ircc list or to the irc list too?
<persia> Needs to be to the irc list too, so everyone can participate in the discussion.
<Seeker`> elky: I don't know, I'm only going by what was said in the meeting
<persia> Leaving everything to the board makes it dependent on board time.
<elky> i'd check, but my squirrelmail doesn't search well
<Seeker`> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-irc/2010-August/001056.html
<elky> ok good. if things go to -irc they can't get lost as easily
<persia> That nobody responded though indicates the rest of us were leaving everything to ikonia, which isn't any more fair than leaving it to IRCC.
<persia> Nice to have it faster, but really, we need to all critique and improve things, so that the IRCC has maximum time to just implement the stuff we feed them.
<Seeker`> http://novarata.net/mootbot/ubuntu-meeting.20101031_1305.html
<Seeker`> and the actual approval was then
<Seeker`> the proposal is essentially unchanged from the original one ikonia sent to the list in august
<Seeker`> it didn't even require a redraft, yet still took 3 months to get approved
<persia> Do we have an agreed set of requirements for server shell hosts to have to be allowed to use ubuntu core channels?
<Seeker`> persia: basically, they have to care what their users are doing
<Seeker`> if we can complain about a user and they get reprimanded by the shell company, they are allowed
<persia> Sure, but my point is that the mail sent only requested an action item, rather than presenting a policy.
<Seeker`> persia: see the "my proposal is:" section at the bottom of the email? That is exactly what was implemented.
<Seeker`> ikonia's "eg" for the set of requirements? Thats what is being used as the set of requirements AIUI.
<persia> Seeker`, Then we *don't* have an agreed set of requirements, and that's a problem.
<persia> Ah, OK.
<persia> The problem with governance is that there are so many stupid semantic tripfalls.
<persia> Unfortunately, I'm not sure there are easy ways around them (this is why many larger organisations (millions of people) tend to have professional politicians who learn their ways around them).
<Seeker`> http://novarata.net/mootbot/ubuntu-meeting.log.20101031_1305.html#5
<Seeker`> thats the discussion about it
<elky> The problem with governing open source hackers is that they're too beeping semantics-minded.
<Seeker`> the council were taking so long to do anything about it, ikonia essentially implemented the suggested policy, and the council only just agreed to formalise it
<persia> elky, If you think that is true, I encourage you to read your local statutes.  Our semantics are *easy*
<elky> the problem with ubuntu's governance is that we are made to feel obliged to humor the semantics trolls.
<persia> Folk who care about semantics aren't trolls.  Semantics are important.  Semantics are why we care about what we do.
<elky> persia, right which is why we still use dvds in our linux computers, etc.
<persia> the only reason "Ubuntu" means anything at all to any of us is because of the attached semantics.
<elky> persia, uh, i wasn't saying all semantics-minded people are. but the ones we get caught up in no-win arguments with tend to be
<Seeker`> I'm still not sure that this level of semantics is important for IRC though. You have ops. Ops ban trolls. If there are a group of trolls, ops ban the group of trolls.
<persia> Sure.
<Seeker`> Yes, the IRCC should be there as a seperate appeals process
<persia> But perhaps some of that is restrictions we place upon ourselves.
<persia> Do we expect IRCC to approve wide-IP bans?
<persia> No, we just do them, and if a ban is too wide, the op can suffer when someone lifts it.
<Seeker`> persia: review, maybe, approve, no
<persia> Why wasn't the same attitude taken for the shell bans (it was defacto, but folk seem concerned)
<Seeker`> ikonia tried to get the IRCC to approve it before he did it, but they didn't do anything useful, so he did it anyway, because it was causing such a problem for the op team
<persia> Sure, but my point is that in terms of number of users it isn't that different than wide IP bans.
<Seeker`> when you have real time communication, waiting 3 months for a decision is impossibly slow
<persia> So I'm not sure why we, as ops, needed to wait for IRCC to approve it.  And if we decided to wait in this case, I don't see why IRCC should have considered it a priority.
<Seeker`> persia: if the official documented policy needs to exist for the action to stay in place, the policy should be documented and actioned in a timely manner
<Seeker`> if they policy doesn't need to exist for the action to remain, why waste time documenting it?
<persia> Maybe someone felt like documenting it to save discussion because of concern about later reviews?
<Seeker`> if this documentation stuff is really that important to IRC being run correctly, it should be done in timescales within a few orders of magnitude of the medium, not months for real time chat.
<Seeker`> persia: the point is, it is the job of the IRCC to decide this stuff.
<Seeker`> They aren't making the decisions quickly enough. Technically, ops don't have the authority to make those decisions, but we have to anyway because the IRCC is so slow in making them themselves
<persia> Maybe I'm missing something, but I just don't see how it's different from a wide IP ban.
<Seeker`> As I was trying to say earlier, taking 2 months to decide something which has an impact on what is happening in the next 6 months (i.e. for the next release) is relatively ok. Taking 2 months for a decision on real-time communication is bad
<Seeker`> Its the logical equivalent of placing a ban on an ISP, which we can only ever do temporarily really
<Seeker`> if at all
<Seeker`> brb, shower
<persia> I guess.  I think of that sort of thing as stuff to just do and document for review, but maybe I'm too into empowerment.
<Seeker`> bk
<Seeker`> temporary ISP-wide bans might be ok, but generally it is considered a "bad thing"; We were getting so many problems with shell users that it was in effect a permanent ISP-wide ban; a permanent ban is something that needs to be decided by the IRCC, and I imagine that the thought of placing a long-term wide-ranging ban also doesn't sit well with most ops
<persia> Ah, OK.  This is a nuance of policy that goes beyond my understanding (one of the reasons I described myself as "junior" earlier is my limited grasp of policy)
<persia> In that case, it does make sense for IRCC to take action, and it does seem to have taken an awfully long time.
<Seeker`> it isn't really a policy, I doubt it is really codified anywhere
<persia> We ought fix that.
<Seeker`> but i think it is just general good operator practice that you don't set wide bans for longer than you have to, espcially in channels like #ubuntu
<persia> Indeed.  It does seem good practice.  I just thought the policy was do-it-and-get-reviewed
<Seeker`> if it were, I suspect jewkonia would have been declared ban-on-sight by now.
<persia> Some folk just ask for it, and that's why we're here, sadly.
<tonyyarusso> sigh, what'd I do now?  *scrollbacks*
<persia> tonyyarusso, Failed to tell us to shut up fast enough? :)
<tonyyarusso> I wasn't aware open calls for ops were supposed to be secret.  If you want to circle the wagons and keep the possible pool to the smallest group possible, knock yourself out, but don't blame me when you miss out on good people who didn't happen to be in it.
<ubottu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (BANLIST FULL, REMOVE SOME BANS)
<derp> Hello, i found a old ban that is not applying anymore
<IdleOne> derp: ??
<derp> #ubuntu $r:"For?you?ST47?:)?<3?w00t" set by lindbohm.freenode.net (Fri Jun 25 05:47:20)
<derp> It was valid 3 years ago
<derp> when i had my botnet
<derp> Now, i don't.
<ubottu> FloodBot4 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit)
<ubottu> FloodBot2 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit)
<ubottu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit)
<IdleOne> I set a ban on *!*@*.ice.net not sure if it is one user or multiple users but they all seem to be trolls. Always offtopic and annoying.
<IdleOne> there has been multiple bans set on multiple diiferent IPs from that host.
<IdleOne> Now I am getting threats in #freenode
<ubottu> rww called the ops in #ubuntu (joseraul)
<bazhang> gapwk connecting from same host; have him muted and in PM (no response so far)
<jussi> I got a lovely motherfu... pm from joseraul
<bazhang> joseraul reconnected as vaina, have him in PM also, no response
<bazhang> both have quit, going to leave the mute for a bit longer though
<gnomefreak> bot reminds you to review bans in pm :)
<jussi> gnomefreak: it has for months! :D
<gnomefreak> opps :) thanks
<jussi> gnomefreak: it even waits till you are active before it bothers you
<gnomefreak> cool, im likeing the bot more and more
<gnomefreak> the link is bad i think
<gnomefreak> @btlogin
<gnomefreak> i hate this part
<gnomefreak> :(
<gnomefreak> ok why is the bot not letting me unban someone
<gnomefreak> unban *!*@89.203.66.61
<gnomefreak> or not
<gnomefreak> unban @89.203.66.61
<gnomefreak> jussi: any idea on why no matter what way i use it it doesnt lift ban
<gnomefreak> its telling me i can only unban myself
<gnomefreak> the script should do it for me but it seems to not work that way either
<jussi> gnomefreak: te bot doesnt do unbans last time I checked...
<jussi> ;)
<gnomefreak> jussi: i know but seems either does chanserv
<gnomefreak> figured i would try bot ;)
<jussi> gnomefreak: why not just op and /mode -b ?
<gnomefreak> because it told me to do that
<gnomefreak> ill try
<gnomefreak> jussi: thanks
<gnomefreak> that is way to simple
<ubottu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (thumbs` appears to be abusive - 5)
<sjm> I've got a suggestion for a change in wording for ubottu.
<sjm> for the !fakeraid factoid, it seems to equate software raid with fakeraid.  Could you change the "For software RAID" to something like "For motherboard RAID" or "For BIOS ("hardware") RAID" or something like that?
<sjm> !fakeraid
<ubottu> Tips and tricks for RAID and LVM can be found on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/SoftwareRAID and http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/LVM-HOWTO - For software RAID, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FakeRaidHowto
<ubottu> In ubottu, sjm said: no, fakeraid is Tips and tricks for RAID and LVM can be found on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/SoftwareRAID and http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/LVM-HOWTO -  For motherboard or BIOS RAID, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FakeRaidHowto
<ikonia> sjm: it' not motherboard raid, or bios raid, it's actually fakeraid
<sjm> ikonia, but it's configured in the BIOS.  The current wording is confusing.  It implies that Software RAID is "FakeRAID"
<ikonia> it is
<sjm> no, fakeRAID is software RAID, but software RAID is not alway fakeRAID.
<popey> It should be clearer on 'Hardware RAID vs Linux Software RAID (MD) vs FakeRAID (DM)' IMO
<sjm> That's really my point.  Most people that have been around Linux understand the differences and what the terms 'Hardware RAID, Linux Software RAID (MD), FakeRAID (DM)' signify.  But in a support forum where there are many coming from the Windows world, that's not true and the ubottu factoid should be clearer.
<popey> I agree
<sjm> Many coming from the Windows world would understand "motherboard" or "bios" raid sooner then "fakeraid"
<ikonia> I'm reading the wiki page and the wiki page isn't really a good and current page
<ikonia> I'll see if there is something I can do with that first
<ubottu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (repeated abuse from vbwe)
<Seeker`> Jordan_U: I'm speaking to him
<IdleOne> Seeker`: can you mention he not make threats to him also please. <ubunrtwgold> virustb i am scanning ur system
<Seeker`> IdleOne: I've told him that sort of attitude isn't appropriate when he wsaid that virus wasn't that intelligent
<IdleOne> ok
<Seeker`> -23:17:36- Seeker`: that sort of attitude isn't really appropriate for #ubuntu. Please try to be polite.
<Seeker`> -23:17:50- ubunrtwgold: ?
<Seeker`> -23:18:04- Seeker`: -23:17:10- :ubunrtwgold : virustb you aren't inteligent
<Seeker`> -23:21:55- Seeker`: neither are threats like "I'm scanning your system"
<Seeker`> -23:22:37- ubunrtwgold: shut up i am working
<IdleOne> I just removed him
#ubuntu-ops 2010-11-06
<Seeker`> Yutaka: how can we help you?
<tonyyarusso> Question:  Are Bryanstein and Jordan_U people who should be autovoiced here?
<Jordan_U> tonyyarusso: I am not. I just often join to call attention to problems, and forget to /part. (this time I actually did /part but it was when my connection was flaky so irssi rejoined when it reconnected).
<Seeker`> Bryanstein shouldnt, as he isn't an op, but he is allowed to be here
<topyli> he is representing their shell provider
<tonyyarusso> All righty.  Too bad there's isn't a half-voice or something so I could distinguish people like that from people who need help.
<topyli> yeah
<Yutaka> Seeker`: now without problems: D :D
<Seeker`> Yutaka: please take note of the channel topic
<Yutaka> ohhh yes yes
<Yutaka> sorry ^^
<Yutaka> bye bye
<Seeker`> thanks
<ubottu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (repeated abuse from n0a1ias)
 * Bryanstein smells mneptok 
<bazhang> muted and PM'd evilson, his quit message warrants a forward here?
<Seeker`> bazhang: what was his quit message?
<bazhang> Seeker`, "f-bomb him"
<Seeker`> I did a lastlog just before you muted him, he wasn't particularly helpful
<Seeker`> he joined the channel proclaiming how much linux sucked
<bazhang> he was seemingly trolling with all the /me nonsense and unhelpful answers
<Seeker`> yeah
<Seeker`> definately warrents a ban
<Seeker`> forwards here? meh, depends on how quickly you want to have to deal with him again
<bazhang> hehe okay
<ubottu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (s3a appears to be abusive - 4)
<ubottu> In ubottu, joeArpaio said: Capslock is cruise control for COOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!
<Tm_T> kool
<ubottu> In ubottu, maco said: no !googlearth is <reply>Google Earth is now available, for free (only as in price), for Linux, too. To download it see http://earth.google.com/download-earth.html - A package for Ubuntu is available in the !Medibuntu repository. If it crashes on start, download version 5.1 instead of 5.2 from the website.
<maco> (5.2 crashes on launch for a LOT of people. reverting to 5.1 is the only known fix)
<bazhang> troll?
<jrib> yeah
<ubottu> erUSUL called the ops in #ubuntu (AtomicAgony)
<Seeker`> hi
<Guybrush88> hi
<Seeker`> how can we help you?
<akssps011> HarD'Life at #ubuntu just spammed us ;)
<Guybrush88> yes
<Seeker`> what did he say?
<Guybrush88>  HarD`Life [ welcome On the Better Network on Mirc Irc.NiceChat.Org Ore http://www.nicechat.org/irc.html Ã£ÃÃÃÃ ÃÃÃ£ ÃÃÃÃÃ¡ ÃÃÃÃ Ã£ÃÃÃÃÃ¥ Ã£ÃÃÃÃÃ¥ ÃÃ¡Ã¬ ÃÃ¡ÃÃ­ÃÃÃ­
<Seeker`> (sorry, will just be a few mins)
<ikonia> Seeker`: he's known
<ikonia> I've seen him before
<ikonia> Guybrush88: akssps011 did he spam you when you joined the channel ?
<akssps011> ikonia: yes..within 2 minutes
<Guybrush88> i received his message about a couple of minutes after i joined the channel
<ikonia> ok, thats the norm, thank you
<ikonia> akssps011: Guybrush88 thanks for letting me know, it's getting sorted
<akssps011> ikonia: ok, thankyou :)
<Guybrush88> thaks ikonia
<Guybrush88> *thanks
<Seeker`> sorry, was called afk for a secon
<ikonia> no problem
<ikonia> sorted
<Seeker`> :)
<ikonia> and he's klined, nice action from staff
<ikonia> akssps011: Guybrush88 all done, do you need anything else ?
<Guybrush88> mmm, at the moment no, thanks
<akssps011> ikonia: nothing atm...thanks
<Seeker`> Guybrush88: akssps011 please take note of the channel topic
<Guybrush88> ok
<Seeker`> Guybrush88: that was a hint to leave if there isn't anything else we can help you with :)
<Guybrush88> ok
<ubottu> DJones called the ops in #ubuntu (Sechssechssechs (Trolling))
<ubottu> ilovefairuz called the ops in #ubuntu (Sechssechssechs)
<ubottu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (repeated abuse from Sechssechssechs)
<tsimpson> maco: you don't need to ban, they were klined
<maco> idoru k-lines?
<maco> tsimpson: ^
<maco> i thought it just disconnected them
<tsimpson> it does both iirc
<tsimpson> I'm sure I heard in #f that it klines
<tsimpson> and the fact that I've never seen a spammer come back after irdu "kills" them makes me think it's true too
<maco> ok ban remove
<maco> d
<Seeker`> o/
<IdleOne> mahen23 needs a lesson in !coc !guidelines !o4o. hell just ban him.
<mneptok> IdleOne: i need a lesson in poutine. do you deliver to New Mexico?
<IdleOne> mneptok: I wish I could
 * mneptok and woowoo are missing poutine now that cooler weather is arriving
<mneptok> note i said "cooler" and not "colder." i would ask the Quebecois to not correct me on what "cold" means. ;)
<IdleOne> heh
 * IdleOne refrains 
<mneptok> IdleOne: you'd love walking around here watching people in full winter gear with the temperatures hovering around 10C. claaaaaaassic.
<IdleOne> haha I was out earlier with the dog in my shorts, it's 4C today
<mneptok> exactly!
<IdleOne> I was wearing the shorts not the dog
<IdleOne> :P
<mneptok> and please, with those kind of tropical temperatures, be a resposible pet owner and shave the dog.
<IdleOne> he is shaved
<IdleOne> should get his full coat back in a month or so
<mneptok> gonna shave "CAN-HAB!" into his fur for hockey season?
<IdleOne> nah, I'm not a hockey fan
<IdleOne> I know, I know, blasphemy
<mneptok> same here. but i never saw you at support group meetings at Concordia. ;)
<IdleOne> I was asked to quit, they got tired of me talking about Ubuntu :/
<topyli> how can anyone get tired of hearing about ubuntu over and over!
<IdleOne> topyli: that is what I said
<topyli> i should also read more optimistically. you were asked to quit. so technically, you quit them, they didn't quit you!
<IdleOne> I didn't tell you they had a security guard at the building entrance with a picture of me.
<IdleOne> it was sad really.
<topyli> aww another fan
<IdleOne> but seriously, mahen23 needs a talking to
<IdleOne> don't know if you saw his question in -ot
<topyli> i haven't been looking
<IdleOne> mahen23> my question is serious, how old is too old to do a woman?
<topyli> sounds like him alright
<IdleOne> yeah well, sounds like he needs a swift kick in the rear
<topyli> well he seems to be offline again :\
<IdleOne> yup
<IdleOne> stirs the pot and then leaves
<Seeker`> kkathman: how can we help you?
<IdleOne> they got voiced
<Seeker`> ah, irssi doesn't always show it for some reason :/
<IdleOne> might be sending msg's from chanserv to your network window
<ubottu> In ubottu, maco said: family is Please keep the topic family friendly
<maco> ^ because sometimes the language isnt bad, just the topic
<Seeker`> !family
<Seeker`> non-family-frienly is usually !coc or !ot
<maco> !ot
<ubottu> And the magical fairies came in and stole the crown from underneath the apple tree...
<maco> hey
<maco> !coc
<ubottu> The Ubuntu Code of Conduct is a community etiquette document to which we ask all Ubuntu users to adhere, and can be found at http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct/ .  For information on how to electronically sign the CoC, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SigningCodeofConduct .
<Seeker`> !ot-#ubuntu
<Seeker`> !offtopic
<ubottu> #ubuntu is the Ubuntu support channel, for all Ubuntu-related support questions. Please use #ubuntu-offtopic for other topics (though our !guidelines apply there too). Thanks!
<maco> but i dont wnat to send people to #ubuntu-offtopic to talk about nekkid girls in webcams
<Seeker`> then !guidelines and !coc
<maco> those say "blah blah be nice go read some links" they dont say "that's not appropriate. stop it"
<maco> --> FrenchMaid (~root@c-24-20-12-90.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #ubuntu-offtopic
<maco> --> odd (~odd@c-24-20-12-90.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #ubuntu-offtopic
<maco> ^^^ oh look, a sock puppet flirting with itself
<topyli> aye
<maco> anywhere FrenchMaid shows up another user shows up to flirt with them
<ubottu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (s1akr appears to be abusive - 5)
<kkathman> hi Seeker` I'm an op so I get logged in automatically :)
#ubuntu-ops 2010-11-07
<ubottu> blakkheim called the ops in #ubuntu ()
<Madpilot> floodbot got there first
<Seeker`> Chaos is known
<Seeker`> -01:06:25- :Chaos2358 : ccan someone help me? im stumped. I download the teamviewer 5 software through the teamviewer website and it uses ubuntu software center to install. it works perfectlly fine except that it removes it self from my computer everytime i reboot. it not only removes itself from the computer but when i search in ubuntu software center for it it isnt there either
<Seeker`> -01:11:09- :Chaos2358 : ccan someone help me? im stumped. I download the teamviewer 5 software through the teamviewer website and it uses ubuntu software center to install. it works perfectlly fine except that it removes it self from my computer everytime i reboot. it not only removes itself from the computer but when i search in ubuntu software center for it it isnt there either
<Seeker`> -01:17:34- :Chaos2358 : ccan someone help me? im stumped. I download the teamviewer 5 software through the teamviewer website and it uses ubuntu software center to install. it works perfectlly fine except that it removes it self from my computer everytime i reboot. it not only removes itself from the computer but when i search in ubuntu software center for it it isnt there either
<Seeker`> -01:18:18- :Chaos2358 : ccan someone help me? im stumped. I download the teamviewer 5 software through the teamviewer website and it uses ubuntu software center to install. it works perfectlly fine except that it removes it self from my
<Seeker`>                         computer everytime i reboot. it not only removes itself from the computer but when i search in ubuntu software center for it it isnt there either
<Seeker`> -01:18:18- :Chaos2358 : ccan someone help me? im stumped. I download the teamviewer 5 software through the teamviewer website and it uses ubuntu software center to install. it works perfectlly fine except that it removes it self from my
<Seeker`>                         computer everytime i reboot. it not only removes itself from the computer but when i search in ubuntu software center for it it isnt there either
<Seeker`> once?
<Chaos2358> ok i dont know how the heck it posted three times i meant to post once and didnt mean to leave
<Madpilot> <Chaos2358> wow no one in here? really? great thanks alot guys
<bazhang> yikes
<Madpilot> looks like a flounce to me
<Seeker`> I would suggest that you don't try to chat on irc if you can't control your computer.
<Chaos2358> what ever
<Chaos2358> good bye gentlemen
<Seeker`> or you'll end up getting yourself banned agin.
<bazhang> agin!
<Madpilot> flouncing all the way
<Madpilot> charming
<Seeker`> bazhang: ssh ,its 0130, I'm allowed a typo :P
<bazhang> Seeker`, no wai!
<bazhang> whoopsie
<Madpilot> snerk
<bazhang> I prefer agin
<ubottu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (CGUser799 appears to be abusive - 4)
<IdleOne> ugh to people running as root and asking why apt-get install dist-upgrade doesn't work
<IdleOne> considering that command will give you an error about dist-upgrade not being a package and the user not understanding it makes running as root even worse
<maco> ohmy
<IdleOne> what?
<Madpilot> ?
<maco> @ what IdleOne said
<Madpilot> the running-as-root-while-not-having-clue?
<maco> yes
<maco> <replicasex> aw I miss fisting?  <--- uhhhhhh that means what i think it means, right?
<maco> IdleOne: ?
<Madpilot> both prong and replicasex are on the "enough rope" stage, I think...
<IdleOne> maco: yeah, you didn't misread
<IdleOne> chien was speaking french the second time he asked. he has been banned before for the same reason
<IdleOne> continually asking the same question in different languages
<MTecknology> Where was the channel that lists unanswered questions? I thought it was #ubuntu-questions but that channel doesn't seem to be open. The one I remember was open to anyone.
<IdleOne> MTecknology: #ubuntu-meta
<MTecknology> thanks
<aborticide> hi there
<aborticide> i'd like to request a permanent ban from #ubuntu please
<aborticide> please comply or i will force myself into doing it, for fun
<aborticide> the forcing will be for fun, but the ban has a purpose
<ikonia> isn't aborticide bacta (the IP country looks wrong)
<topyli> i don't think it is
<bazhang> nope not bacta
<ikonia> that looked nothing like him, (especially the IP range) but I thought he'd used that nick
<bazhang> ikonia, not him; though he does keep asking for a cloak in #freenode (regular issue in other channels)
<ikonia> I've seen him be a problem
<aborticide> please ban me from #ubuntu
<aborticide> thanks
<ikonia> he is banned
<ikonia> don't know why he's asking again
<bazhang> muted only I thought
<ikonia> no, I banned him
<bazhang> ah okay
<ikonia> he's in freenode calling the #ubuntu ops stupid and asking to be banned
<ikonia> beyond his nickname, I don't know what his problem/attitude is all about
<Seveas> bazhang, prod
<bazhang> Seveas, hi
<Seveas> seen that link syria posted? Now visit the root of that url
<bazhang> ok
<Seveas> something to watch out for...
<bazhang> holy cow
<Seveas> yes...
<bazhang> thanks for the heads up Seveas
<Seveas> np
<topyli> i have explained this in pm to plantsvsme
<topyli> IdleOne: talking to mahen23 now in pm
<IdleOne> topyli: thank you.
<topyli> gah
<IdleOne> also he was complaining about the archive for the operator email call wasn't working.
<IdleOne> I wonder why he even cares
<ikonia> link works fine for me
<IdleOne> yeah, me too
<topyli> he's explaining to him how this is his normal behavior and perfectly ok. i'm explaining that his normal behavior is not okay on our channels. let's see if we can manage to make the twain meet
<ikonia> he's had that conversation a few times
<topyli> hrm
<ikonia> (that doesn't mean it's not worth having again)
<topyli> well i made things clear for him i hope, and told him i won't do it again
<IdleOne> Who is sjm?
<ikonia> sjm: a user who made an factoid update request
<ikonia> other than that he's not spoke
<IdleOne> ahh ok.
<IdleOne> well, should he still be here is the question
<IdleOne> was about the fakeraid thing right
<IdleOne> two days ago
<ikonia> sjm: ping are you awake
<ikonia> if he doesn't need anything, then no
<ikonia> getting REALLY fedup with #kubuntu-offtopic doing support
<ikonia> it's supposed to be a core channel and fall in line with the topics/guidelines
<ikonia> mostly it's just eagles who brings it up, but he's not the only one
<ikonia> !guidelines
<ubottu> The guidelines for using the Ubuntu channels can be found here: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines
<Seeker`> For interested parties, discussion about core-ops should be taking place in #ubuntu-meeting now
<IdleOne> nhandler topyli ping
<topyli> ohh
<ubottu> In #ubuntu, wizzo50 said: ubottu This is for Windows XP to put Windows XP on a laptop
<Seeker`> I have just decativated my membership to #ubuntu-offtopic ops and #ubuntu ops. I don't know if anyone wishes to remove my access from the appropriate channels.
<Seeker`> Please can someone let me know when it is done and I will part the channel.
<IdleOne> Seeker`: in my opinion I believe you doing that is a mistake. You should take a couple days to think about this before making it final.
<tonyyarusso> hmmm, what'd I miss?
<IdleOne> tonyyarusso: #ubuntu-meeting
<IdleOne> ahh sorry thought you were idle there
<IdleOne> meeting is over already
<tonyyarusso> nah, I used to, but my days of 40 channels are over in an attempt to maintain a shred of sanity :P
 * tonyyarusso goes to read the logs then
<IdleOne> has to do with core-ops/core-channel issue
<tonyyarusso> I'm confused as to what exactly the "issue" is with that - maybe these meeting logs will enlighten me
<IdleOne> in any case I don't think Seeker` should drop his access like this.
<topyli> Seeker`: not me, i'm not doing it at least today
<Seeker`> IdleOne: It isn't in my best interests to subject myself to the stress of watching a broken process be made worse by a council that can't operate efficiently and is capable of ignoring the opinions of the very people it represents. I'm fed up of getting the response that "we didn't have time" or being told to "add it to the next agenda". Nothing I say or do can help improve the situation without a signficant change in attitude which I don't see comi
<topyli> later if you still think so
<IdleOne> Seeker`: emotions are clearly running high. Please take some time to reconsider.
<Seeker`> IdleOne: I was considering it before the meeting. 90 mins of indecisiveness, vague answers that kinda avoid the point of the question and no apparently desire to try and reducd the amount of complexity in the IRC governance didn't do anything t ochange my mind.
<IdleOne> Nothing is perfect we know that but quitting and giving up is not going to help make it better.
<IdleOne> Just need to step back for a day or two and not think about it. take a break if you want but don't quit, not yet.
<knome> IdleOne, it might not seem the wisest thing to do, but if he wants to quit like this, please let him.
<IdleOne> knome: why?
<knome> IdleOne, because this is voluntary work and he's allowed to quit like that if he wants. begging him to stay makes it worse.
<IdleOne> I am not begging. I am asking him to reconsider and take into account how it will affect the rest of the team. I believe his quitting the ops team would be a great loss to the team.
<knome> but you really can't make him stay if he doesn't want to
<IdleOne> that is not my goal
<IdleOne> I am not trying to make him stay.
<Seeker`> IdleOne: I'm not doing this out of emotion or trying to cause drama. Simply put, I don't want to be a witness to the train wreck that is currently going on, and stay on the team isn't worth the stress involved in trying to fix it.
<IdleOne> I am asking him to think about it. we just left a meeting where emotions ran high and I don't believe he has had the time to think this threw
<IdleOne> Seeker`: ok, if you are sure. I support your decision.
<knome> tbh, i think he has been thinking about this more than needed. it's not like he got frustrated to this decision today
<knome> s/decision/situation/
<knome> anyway, i'll shut my mouth now.
<tonyyarusso> So apparently #kubuntu* aren't core channels eh?  I thought we'd straightened that out, but apparently not.
<Seeker`> tonyyarusso: they are, but then they can implement their own rules
<tonyyarusso> Seeker`: If the IRCC isn't responsible for them, then they're not a core channel.  Thinking anything would just be lying to ourselves.
<Seeker`> tonyyarusso: thats what I think too. The IRCC seems adament that they are core channels though.
<tonyyarusso> Right, because Ubuntu people are obsessed with "zomg appease everyone kumbaya!", instead of having actual governance sometimes :P
<Seeker`> something like that
<tonyyarusso> Seeker`: for what it's worth, I don't think I agree with your counter-proposal, but I certainly agree that whatever the IRCC's proposal is has had woefully poor communication.
<tonyyarusso> as in, I think I would agree with the IRCC, if I knew what I was agreeing with ;)
<Seeker`> tonyyarusso: all the IRCC's proposal is at present is that a core-op is an op in all core channels.
<Seeker`> Thats all that has been agreed.
<IdleOne> I think that is what the whole issue is, nobody seems quite clear on what is what
<tonyyarusso> and that they would apply for that in a separate process, after already being approved as a channel-specific operator - that appears to have also been agreed on.
<tonyyarusso> The ambiguity I see is in evaluation criteria.
<tonyyarusso> IdleOne: yeah
<tonyyarusso> Not sure why confusion would be a reason to quit though (@ Seeker` )
<topyli> in a nuthsell, we came up with a team and even defined the criteria for members. somewhere along the way, we forgot why it was needed. now Seeker` figured out use for the team, but disagrees with the membership criteria :)
<Seeker`> topyli: I didn't "figure out a use for it". I was explicitly told that getting more ops in here was dependant on it.
<tonyyarusso> topyli: What membership criteria?  I see a process, but no meaningful criteria.
<Seeker`> tonyyarusso: Another way of wording my proposal would be that people shouldn't be made channel-specific ops unless they are also capable of being core-ops.
<topyli> uh it's documented, i'm not doing the meeting again
<tonyyarusso> Seeker`: btw, I don't think this is only about whether we *trust* operators.  It's also about what ops want.  If you have +o somewhere, people start expecting you to *use* it, and I don't *want* to be expected to respond to things all over the place :)
<tonyyarusso> topyli: haven't finished the meeting log - maybe I'll find it yet
<topyli> try the wiki. the link is very early in the log too
<IdleOne> topyli: may I msg you if you got a minute or three?
<tonyyarusso> I looked at the wiki.........
<IdleOne> topyli: if you are busy, it's ok no rush
<tonyyarusso> I see *1* criterion:  "To apply to become a Core Operator, you must first be an active operator in one, or more, of the core channels. "
<tonyyarusso> That doesn't even say a time period you have to have been a channel operator for.
<Seeker`> There isn't a description of any other critera the IRCC will assess.
<Seeker`> At least, not publically visible.
<topyli> IdleOne: sure. i'm not busy i'm just slow
<topyli> tonyyarusso: you fill this critera and apply. that's the current idea
<tonyyarusso> topyli: That seems.....silly to say the least.
<Seeker`> tonyyarusso: I am quitting because I am dissatisfied with the IRCC, the length of time it takes to do anything, how hard it is to get a straight answer, the contempt they seem to have for operators and the sheer level of inconsistency in answers depending on who you talk to and when. There aren't being any steps taken to help operators, just feet-dragging.
<Seeker`> topyli: and then what? Put the names on the wall and let monkeys fling faeces at the names? Whichever get hit get to be a core-ops?
<tonyyarusso> Seeker`: that seems more reasonable, if you're saying as an assessment of the last 6+ months rather than this week.
<topyli> tonyyarusso: it's how ops are made
<Seeker`> topyli: I think what tonyyarusso wants to know is the critera that are applied that differentiate between a core-channel op and a core-op
<Seeker`> What extra questions are asked to work out whether they would be suitable.
<Seeker`> tonyyarusso: is that right?
<tonyyarusso> topyli: There are half a dozen criteria for new ops, and an interview and discussion process based on observation of catalyst skills, etc.  There are things that can actually result in denial.  The process for core-ops as written guarantees that it's just a rubber-stamp for anyone who applies, unless the IRCC is planning to arbitrarily choose people it likes (which is what you will be accused of if you deny anyone without writing ...
<tonyyarusso> ... out further criteria).
<topyli> uh
<tonyyarusso> Seeker`: basically
<Seeker`> uh?
<tonyyarusso> If you intend it to be an automatic upgrade after serving as a channel op for X time, then just call it a probationary period before becoming a full op, instead of pretending it's some other separate thing that has no separate rules.
<Seeker`> topyli: this isn't meant to be a hard question.
<tonyyarusso> Core problem, summarized:  I don't know if I'm agreeing with you or arguing with you, because I have utterly no idea what the IRCC is trying to say.
<topyli> oh looks like i'm expected to pay attention and continue the meeting here
<topyli> where is the question?
<topyli> i see claims
<tonyyarusso> topyli: Nah, I don't expect anything - but you're talking now, so I am too.  If you'd rather run off and get pizza instead, go right ahead :)
<topyli> heh
<Seeker`> topyli: what extra questions would be asked about someone when they apply to be a core-op?
<tonyyarusso> topyli: The question is:  a) What is a "core op"?, b) Why do we need them?, c) How will they be choosen?, d) How is that different from the criteria for a channel op?, e) What are the reasons for those differences?
<tonyyarusso> basically.  Some of those have been answered well - (a) I think has now.  The others not necessarily so much.
<Seeker`> tonyyarusso: the "need" for them came around when I was told that for existing ops to be given +o in here, the term core-op would have to be properly defined/implemented
<topyli> i just attended a meeting, which appeared to have no chair, one world-embracing topic of "why do you suck so", after which i heard someone call it an IRCC meeting. then i didn't understand much for an hour. then i was able to figure out a proposition but time was up
<tonyyarusso> topyli: Sounds about right :P
<tonyyarusso> topyli: also, I'm only picking on you because you're talking - you're clearly not the one most responsible for replying to these points.
<topyli> so i'm willing to cling to this proposition and discuss it in the next one :)
<tonyyarusso> Works for me.  Could the other IRCC members please see my 5 questions above, and *document* all of them thoroughly, and then call a follow-up meeting after you have done so, so we actually have something to discuss instead of just babbling incoherently for an hour?
<topyli> tonyyarusso: i can paste them to the ircc channel, but i think a summary like that would be useful on the mailing list as well
<tonyyarusso> topyli: Agreed.  Geez, now you're making me document my points - the horror!  :P
<topyli> hehe
<tonyyarusso> dude, good quote - "People don't turn on a computer so they can use Unity, people turn on a computer so they can do things" (can replace "Unity" with $software)
<tonyyarusso> Unfortunately, I'm not 100% sure which person I'm watching right now
<tonyyarusso> I think it's mpt though
<topyli> apps are terrible with this, and i hate the current obsession with apps
<topyli> my utopia just seems further and further away! :)
<topyli> i'm interested in documents and people and places and STUFF, not firefox or abiword
<tonyyarusso> topyli: agreed
<tonyyarusso> I love applications that bring my STUFF closer (like Gwibber), not just because the application is ooohshiny
<gord> for what its worth, thats the general idea behind the unity places tonyyarusso
<gord> erm topyli
<topyli> yeah gwibber (when it works) abstracts away twitter and facebook and such, and brings you STUFF
<tonyyarusso> when it works :P
<topyli> gord: yeah places is a great idea
<topyli> gord: add people, and we're done :)
<tonyyarusso> I *think* most of my problems with gwibber have actually been couchdb problems though, honestly.
<gord> the community is working on a people place
<topyli> the biggest problem i see is evolution's great resistance to become telepathic
<topyli> e-d-s really
<tonyyarusso> Also, gord - I'm still waiting for a full realization of Telepathy's promised potential, such as https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/gaim-calendar-auto-aways
<tonyyarusso> (Blueprint that I wrote YEARS ago and we still don't have anything like it :( )
<tsimpson> tonyyarusso: fwiw, we did send out a request for criteria for applying to be a core op to the irc ML, only got one suggestion
<tonyyarusso> tsimpson: Fair point, although I suspect most of us didn't understand what you were even talking about, so wouldn't have bothered weighing in on something we weren't familiar with the purpose of.
<tsimpson> tonyyarusso: sure, people asked for clarification, and got answered
<topyli> as a general reminder regarding, there's not much time to nominate yourself to be on it!
<topyli> regarding ircc that is
<tonyyarusso> (I personally likely was just more concerned with other things, and have neglected Ubuntu stuff in deference to political campaigning and school over the last few months.)
<tonyyarusso> topyli: Give me a clone to do my boring schoolwork and I'm in! :P
<tonyyarusso> Stupid life getting in the way of IRC - should not be allowed.  ;)
<topyli> that's the reality, yep
<maco> i am clearly a biased kde user
<maco> i typed !purgegnome instead of !puregnome
<ikonia> ha
<topyli> :)
<topyli> oh and sorry for the email confusion ikonia, i didn't want to twist your words
<ikonia> topyli: not at all, no need to apologise
<ikonia> I just didn't want to be the one saying close the channel, I think it's fine as it is
<topyli> thanks
#ubuntu-ops 2011-10-31
<ubottu> FloodBot3 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join (1484 users, 20 overflows, 1504 limit))
<ubottu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join (1481 users, 20 overflows, 1501 limit))
<ubottu> FloodBot2 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join (1483 users, 20 overflows, 1503 limit))
<marienz> hope you don't mind that banforward, the floodbots were getting noisy
<marienz> might need a similar one on #ubuntu
<LjL> maybe not, they don't seem to be rejoining
<marienz> it's still cycling ##fix_your_connection intermittently and ignoring my attempts at talking
<marienz> reads as a human being annoying more than a bot
<marienz> it might pick up on being able to join #ubuntu again, I mean
<marienz> #debian and #python-unregistered now. It's about to leave for a bit if it won't answer me
<ubottu> FloodBotK2 called the ops in #kubuntu-ops-monitor (maxi_ appears to be flooding, but emergency mode is on)
<ubottu> FloodBotK1 called the ops in #kubuntu-ops-monitor (maxi_ appears to be flooding, but emergency mode is on)
<ubottu> AtomicSpark called the ops in #ubuntu-offtopic ()
<marienz> that looks familiar
<jussi> Ive just registered the IRC team blueprint for UDS P, you can find it at: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntu-irc-team-p-plans - It is currently empty, so if there is something you think should be in our plans for the next cycle, you should add it to the Whiteboard. If you are unable to change the whiteboard, please ping me and Ill look see what Ive done wrong :)
<ubottu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join (1557 users, 1 overflows, 1558 limit))
<ubottu> FloodBot2 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join (1559 users, 5 overflows, 1564 limit))
<highvoltage> nj
<Seveas> <asfasfasf> mark shuttlecock is openly hostile to the linux community
<Seveas> #ubuntu-offtopic
<ubottu> pangolin called the ops in #ubuntu-offtopic (asfasfasf trolling - language)
<gnomefreak> why is the bot being an ass
<pangolin> did you @comment
<pangolin> ?
<gnomefreak> :(
<pangolin> pebkac?
<pangolin> :)
<gnomefreak> i forgot "comment"
<pangolin> thought so.
<gnomefreak> if he shows up here let me know ill be working on spreadsheets for at least as hour
<pangolin> I doubt he will, he is banned in #u also for the same reason
<ubottu> GTRsdk called the ops in #ubuntu-offtopic (nilognap is ban evading)
<pangolin> going to test something
<Pici> k
<pangolin> heh
<pangolin> didn't work AT ALL
<pangolin> hmm
<Pici> hmm
<Pici> ?
<pangolin> oh I know why
<pangolin> I had the command backwards
<pangolin> errrr
<pangolin> ok last try
<pangolin> hmm
<pangolin> step closer
 * Pici thinks that another channel might be better
<pangolin> oh wait already had the +q set
<pangolin> yup
<pangolin> it would
<Pici> my scrollback is getting rather messy
<pangolin> but I think it is working now
<ubottu> In ubottu, guntbert said: !controls is sed /nand/n and/
<gnomefreak> it looks right to mer
<gnomefreak> s/mer/me
<ubottu> In ubottu, Myrtti said: !no, controls is <reply> Starting in Lucid, the minimize, maximize and close buttons have been moved to the left side. For more information and workarounds, please see http://pad.lv/532633
<Myrtti> DAMN YOU
<Pici> In #ubuntu-ops, Myrtti said: DAMN YOU
<Myrtti> and it didn't even correct it.
<Myrtti> harrumph
<Myrtti> Imma gonna get more tea
<gnomefreak> i dont see a problem with it
<Myrtti> for more informationand workarounds
<gnomefreak> i dont see them like that
<gnomefreak> information and  workarounds
<Myrtti> !controls
<ubottu> Starting in Lucid, the minimize, maximize, and close buttons have been moved to the left side. For more informationand workarounds, please see http://pad.lv/532633
<gnomefreak> thats copy+paste
<gnomefreak> oh
<gnomefreak> i msged bot earlier and didnt see it
<Pici> !search nand
<ubottu> Found: controls, reiserfs
<Pici> !reiserfs
<ubottu> reiserfs is a journalling file system, which outperforms many others on I/O operations, but has drawbacks (such as increasing likelihood of data loss, and introducing latency unsuitable for gaming or real-time audio). Using !ext3, the default on Ubuntu, is *highly* recommended. A read-only Windows driver is available at http://p-nand-q.com/download/rfstool.html
<Pici> eh, thats fine.
<Pici> !reiserfs =~ s/ext3/ext4/
<ubottu> I'll remember that Pici
<jpds> wifekillerfs*
<Myrtti> !controls =~ s/nand/n and/
<ubottu> I'll remember that Myrtti
<Myrtti> !controls
<ubottu> Starting in Lucid, the minimize, maximize, and close buttons have been moved to the left side. For more information and workarounds, please see http://pad.lv/532633
<guntbert> hi, can someone have an eye on the convo between _r00t and DavidCA2 in #ubuntu? I have the feeling there is dubious advice given (although in best intent)
<ubottu> FloodBotK1 called the ops in #kubuntu-ops-monitor (natman appears to be flooding, but emergency mode is on)
<ubottu> FloodBotK2 called the ops in #kubuntu-ops-monitor (natman appears to be flooding, but emergency mode is on)
<genii-around> I gave a !pastebin
<Pici> pangolin: fwiw, flynn was being a bit difficult.
<Pici> and I just checked yagoo's scrollback, nevermind ;)
<yagoo> pangolin is a coward
<pangolin> Pici: agreed but yagoo has been a issue for several days if not weeks
<yagoo> If I say #ubuntu-<language>
<yagoo> I mean it
<yagoo> Grow up child pangolin.
<pangolin> I told you I am 37
<yagoo> Doesn't make u an adult.
<yagoo> For weeks?
<yagoo> Show me.
<yagoo> pff
<yagoo> I've been more helpful than you have.
<yagoo> lol
<Myrtti> this isn't helping you here
<pangolin> I don't like your poor attitude towards users and the way you get insulting when challenged.
<yagoo> I can even show my LPIC-1 tag for anyone wanting to see it.
<yagoo> pff
<yagoo> So I sure do have a background in linux.
<pangolin> take a week off and please read the !guidelines and !coc
<yagoo> pangolin is incompetent
<pangolin> So can I
<yagoo> Anyone wants to see my LPIC-1? They can ask and I can post it right here.
<Myrtti> yagoo: I don't care if Linus himself would ascend to #ubuntu, if he wouldn't know how to behave, he'd be out
<yagoo> All I said was. "I love to see you help him. This would be entertaining"
<yagoo> ^ I've seen worse.
<pangolin> nobody cares about your qualifications, it is your poor attitude that has got you banned.
<yagoo> Now getting kicked for that tells me pangolin is a baby.
<yagoo> Poor attitude?
<yagoo> For what?
<pangolin> read what you have said in here it is a fine example of what I mean.
<yagoo> #ubuntu-language is a bannable offense?
<pangolin> ban is for 7 days. I am done.
<yagoo> Anyone can check the log. You're welcome. But pangolin is pretty immature
<yagoo> pff
<yagoo> Childish.
<yagoo> Big Guy.
<Myrtti> yagoo: you really aren't helping yourself here
<yagoo> You sound like 16.
<yagoo> lol
<yagoo> Well I have degrees and know much more than pangolin
<yagoo> He just did a big disservice.
<Myrtti> how do YOU know that
<yagoo> Congratulations kid
<pangolin> I hate it when follow montrealers act like jack asses
<genii-around> pangolin: I hear ya.
#ubuntu-ops 2011-11-01
<h00k> toltoltol appears to be a troll in #ubuntu, and has had two warnings so far. one !danger and one !language
<ubottu> qiyong called the ops in #ubuntu ()
<Myrtti> klined
<ikonia> win
<Myrtti> â¥
<Myrtti> I need to go to the jobcentre to hear "because Nokia". If almoxarife comes here to complain, please tell them to mind the language and manners
<Myrtti> thx
<Tm_T> Myrtti: will do, thanks
<Myrtti> note: only muted, not banned or kicked
<ikonia> coolio
<Tm_T> Myrtti: did you note him on PM?
<ubottu> In ubottu, tyska said: my is ext4
<Myrtti> bhavesh giving out google links...
<topyli> pyttipanna!
<topyli> more specifically, bellmans panna
<Myrtti> ew.
<topyli> oh they call it 'pytt bellman'
<Tm_T> aw
<Pici> Myrtti: I guess I should have left them muted.
<Myrtti> Pici: you can fix that error soon, I suspect
<Myrtti> or I will
<Pici> Myrtti: I'm stuck trying to figure out some work things, just happened to glance at IRC.
<Pici> Myrtti: sorry :/
<Myrtti> nothing yet
<sevith> Hello friends.
<sevith> Will somone please unban me from offtopic? Iv been banned for over 2 weeks now. I was told the ban would only last a dday or two. I have come in here and talked with various people about the issue at hand. It has been resolved. But no one has unbanned me yet?
<sevith> Please :(
<ubottu> sevith called the ops in #ubuntu ()
<sevith> No
<sevith> I really didnt mean to do that.
<pangolin> no worries, just sit tight and someone will help you soonish
<sevith> I got time ;)
<ikonia> you'd like your ban in #ubuntu-offtopic removed
<ikonia> hi sevith
<sevith> Yes
<sevith> sir/ma'am
<ikonia> ok - why where you banned ?
<sevith> Exposing user credentials....
<ikonia> ok - why did you do that ?
<sevith> Cuz It seemed like a good idea at the time. I dont know. I have discussed this multiple times. Everytime its another person. And I dont get unbanned.
<ikonia> ok - I'm talking to you now
<ikonia> why did you keep trying to bypass bans ?
<ikonia> and why would posting other peoples credentials in a channel be a "good idea"
<sevith> I was being sarcastic. It was a bad idea. I dont have an explanation for why i did it. And Im not gonna make up an excuse. I didnt know I was banned right away.
<ikonia> you appear to be attempting to cause a problem everytime I see you in an ubuntu channel, eg: joining #ubuntu and calling !ops - so I'd like to know why you think your behaviour is acceptable or " a good idea"
<ikonia> sevith: you knew you where banned the second time, and came back another two times
<ikonia> trying to bypass the ban
<ikonia> so "I didn't know" doesn't work
<ikonia> if you can explain yourself, I'm happy to resolve this, but so far I'm not seeing form of explination for your repeated problem behaviour
<sevith> Matt. I am sorry. I apologize to everyone who I have offended. This issue has been resolved weeks ago :(
<ikonia> the issue hasn't been resolved
<ikonia> hence why you're banned
<ikonia> so again - if you can explain your repeated behaviour problems including the one you just did in #ubuntu I'm happy to resolve it
 * sevith sighs...
<ikonia> you can sigh all you want, but that's not going to change anything
<sevith> I dont know what you would like me to explain. Honestly. If a drunk driver went out and crashed into somone else. You ask him to explain himself. What do you think he would say? I felt like getting drunk and killing somone? No. I really doubt it. I was in a conversation with a person about security. I just showed him how trivial it was to crack some random server pass. Obviously Wasnt a good idea since its caused this many issues. Im sorry. And as
<sevith>  far as the .!ops goes. My bad...Shouldnt have done it.
<sevith> Please. I am sorry for what I did. It was two weeks ago. Your like the third or fourth person I have talked to this about. The last time the issue WAS resolved. I had to leave though, So i did. When I came back I was still banned. Which is now. I figured it had been lifted a week or so ago.
<sevith> I talked it out with somone. IDK their name though.
<sevith> I'm sure they would remember me if they seen me...
<sevith> Its ok. Dont unban me then. If its going to be this hard to have the ban lifted. Its ok. Dont unban me. Ill go elsewhere. and as far as me causing problems goes. IDK WTF you mean. I issues one OP! command which was more or less a type which I said I didnt meant to hit immediately after I did.
<sevith> Dont worry about it
<ikonia> sevith: I'll be with you in a moment, I'm just on the phone
<ikonia> or if you still feel "don't worry about it" please leave the channel
<sevith> To be honest
<sevith> And very blunt with you.
<sevith> Well im not gonna explain myself anymore.
<ikonia> ok, then please leave the channel
<ikonia> I'm busy on the phone and if you don't want to discuss it, I need to get on
<sevith> ikonia, What else am I suppose to say? I wont disclose any more sensitive info.
<ikonia> sensitive info - please
<ikonia> asking why someone did something is not sensitive
<sevith> what?
<sevith> I meant the user passwords..
<ikonia> ooh, I see
<ikonia> I understand that
<ikonia> but why did you keep trying to dodge bans, and why did you join #ubuntu and call !ops
<sevith> You belittle me. Ok Ill be honest
<ikonia> I don't
<ikonia> I'm asking reasonable questions
<sevith> the first few times I DIDNT KNOW I WAS BANNED until I was told. and yes i did circumvent the ban a few times. But I stopped.
<ikonia> ok - so why did you try to circumvent
<sevith> I havent circumvented it since. and I called ops because I wanted to see if ubottu was sleeping...
<sevith> So i could chat.
<ikonia> ok - again
<sevith> Why do you log on to irc?
<sevith> I like to help people.
<ikonia> sevith: to interact with people
<ikonia> calling the ops is not helping
<ikonia> dodging bans is not helping
<sevith> Agreed.
<ikonia> I don't see any reasoning in your behaviour that makes me think you want to do anything but cause a problem
<ikonia> which is why this issue probably hasn't been resolved to date
<sevith> go into ubuntu. Since we started this convo. I already helped like 3 people. With simple issues.
<ikonia> ne with you in a moment
<ikonia> be
<sevith> Holding...
<ikonia> sevith: ok - if I remove the ban in offtopic, I'm going to see zero issues out of you
<ikonia> no bad language
<ikonia> no posting silly / unhelp ful things
<ikonia> etc
<sevith> Yeah. I think what your trying to say is follow the TOS https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/TermsOfService
<ikonia> pretty much
<sevith> Iv read..
<pangolin> also
<pangolin> !guidelines
<ubottu> The guidelines for using the Ubuntu channels can be found here: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines
<sevith> ;)
<ikonia> ok - I've removed the ban
<sevith> -.- We will see about that -.-
<pangolin> see about what?
<sevith> The ban. I cant join oh well Ill give it a minute or two...
<pangolin> you should be able to now
<Pici> Ban against *sevith*!*@*$##unavailable matches sevith!~sevith@unaffiliated/sevith
<sevith> Are you guys all volunteers just hanging out in irc? Or do some of your help with ubuntu projects etc....etc..
<pangolin> We all do different things for Ubuntu and the community.
<sevith> Still banned.
<pangolin> yup just a sec
<pangolin> Pici: can you get that?
<sevith> I do know you guys banned a few different IPs i used :(
<pangolin> ok you're good to go
<sevith> Cool, thanks pangolin, Pici, ikonia. Im going to post some user passwords now! :) JK (I hope you guys have a sense of humor) :/
<sevith> :(
<pangolin> heh
<pangolin> Have a nice day.
<sevith> Thanks again guys. I appreciate it ;)
<Tm_T> ah, him
<ikonia> ok - I'm baffled
<ikonia> that's a 3rd mirror who has http://repo in sync, but their rsync://repo is out of sync
<ikonia> no, they are in sync, but it's only pulling down half the files, very odd
<ikonia> (full repos, but missing %50 of the repodata files)
<ikonia> I'm using that script http://fpaste.org/4SKK/
<ikonia> which I've used for fedora for years
<ikonia> http://fpaste.org/iwjE/
<ikonia> however that's all it's pulling down (repodata wise)
<ikonia> if I do rsync to the path of repo data - the full files are there, but it only pulls down %50 of them
<ikonia> oop
<ikonia> sorry
<Tm_T> Guest29975: hi
<Myrtti> looks like gord, but is it gord
<Myrtti> I guess it is, judging from the ip address
<Pici> Yes, its the same location he normally connects to IRC from.
<Pici> Hes probably too busy with UDS things to notice
<gord> Tm_T, hi!!! omg!!
<Pici> omg!
<gord> there we go :)
<gord> i did update my password in znc, but i have to start znc to get it to pick up the password... so thats not gonna happen for a while
<Pici> !test
<ubottu> Testing... Testing... 1. 2.. 3... ( by the way, remember that you can use #test )
<Myrtti> anyone awake
<Myrtti> u needs more babysitting than I can give
<ubottu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (flood (16))
<Pici> I'm barely here
<Myrtti> Squiffy lost_the_game
<ubottu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (Squiffy appears to be flooding, but emergency mode is on)
<Pici> toodles
<Myrtti> tag team troll
<Myrtti> nn
<almoxarife> I can't send to channel #ubuntu, not sure what I did
<elky> let me check
<almoxarife> test?
<almoxarife> thnks
<almoxarife> also, is this the place to go in order to strip my IP from my nick? I tried to read the ref material but I can't make sense of it
<elky> almoxarife, it appears you have a history of being quite rude
<elky> and you were being rude once again.
<almoxarife> I am,
<almoxarife> presently?
<elky> there's no place for bad language or bad attitude in our channels
<almoxarife> I admit I do allow my opinion to get the better of me
<elky> yeah, i'd rather not have someone telling someone to fuck of because of /their/ opinion, and you've done that today. I'm not going to lift the ban today, it can wait a week for you to think through how to better control yourself. Return this time next week and we'll discuss it.
<almoxarife> for the record, I may use bad language, but I have tried to always have a good attitude
<almoxarife> today?
<elky> yes
<elky> nov 1
<almoxarife> sounds great, next week then
#ubuntu-ops 2011-11-02
<urlin2u> little help needed in #ubuntu
<ubottu> In #ubuntu, Calinou said: !ops there is troll over there!
<Myrtti> oh dear
<Myrtti> did I understand that correctly
<Myrtti> he's looking for a way to decrypt a user password hash
<LjL`> uhm my address appears to be banned from #ubuntu-uk, and no nickserv
<Tm_T> no chanserv either, so no can do?
<ubottu> iceroot called the ops in #ubuntu (Lion__)
<Tm_T> I'll be away in a second, but I already warned Lion on PM with good response, so hopefully they'll behave
<ubottu> FloodBot3 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (latha appears to be flooding, but emergency mode is on)
<ubottu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (latha appears to be flooding, but emergency mode is on)
<Tm_T> brraaagh, I'm too slow (:)
<Tm_T> aaand off ->
<Pici> okaay
<popey> hey hey
<popey> willcooke asked in -irc if we could have a logbot for a channel related to Ubuntu TV stuff.
<popey> he setup #ubuntutv, but i wasn't certain that it's the best name for the channel
<popey> someone setup #ubuntu-tv in the past, but thats a TLD (although almost certainly won't be used by a loco team any time soon)
<popey> I'd like some advice on what channel we should setup?
<popey> (I work with willcooke)
<LjL> popey: how about #ubuntu-television
<mneptok> popey: IIRC, any channel with a single hash and starting with the Ubuntu name needs to be approved (e.g. #ubuntu-tv). any doubl hash is fair game (##ubuntu-tv)
 * mneptok 's recollection may be faulty
<popey> i was making an assumption that all channels followed #ubuntu-SOMETHING
<popey> but there are exceptions like #ubuntu+1
<popey> ideally I'd prefer #ubuntutv
<mneptok> popey: 0730 here, so trusting my recollections may not be the best strategy ;)
<popey> heh
<mneptok> hmmm .... #ubuntu-idiotbox would probably lead people to think they can practice their puglisitic skills on my face. not a bad assupmtion, so probably a bad name.
 * popey tickles jussi here
 * jussi runs away
<Myrtti> popey: how about the other way around
<mneptok> Myrtti: vt-utnubu# ?
<Myrtti> mneptok: moving the discussion to #ubuntu-irc
 * mneptok tends to have that effect on covnersations
<mneptok> !staff 08:13 -dns:#ubuntu- freeshellS http://techbg.tk
<ubottu> mneptok: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<mneptok> meh
<Myrtti> forgot the |
<szal> afternoon..  requesting official action against Guest11367 in #ubuntu - keeps spamming me in private w/ support questions though I told them to stop
<pangolin> szal: I asked them to ask in channel, for now if you don't wish to help them in PM just ignore.
<szal> k, gonna see whether they give up :)
<popey> fyi i have registered #ubuntu-phone and #ubuntu-tablet
<ubottu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join (1666 users, 8 overflows, 1674 limit))
<ubottu> FloodBot3 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join (1663 users, 10 overflows, 1673 limit))
<ubottu> FloodBot2 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join (1666 users, 6 overflows, 1672 limit))
<ikonia> LjL: very slick
<LjL> sometimes, though rarely, the bots work properly ;)
<marienz> yep, good bots
<marienz> one even remembered to beep me so I could kline a bunch of them
<elky> Nice when they're so courteous
 * Pici rolls eyes
<Pici> ikonia: hah
<ikonia> enough is enough
#ubuntu-ops 2011-11-03
<ubottu> xangua called the ops in #ubuntu (JustBecauseYouAr)
<ubottu> ActionParsnip called the ops in #ubuntu (JustBecauseYouAr trolling)
<elky> ^ best ops call evar
<pangolin> heh
<jussi> I have yeahhhh in PM
<Tm_T> good
<ubottu> FloodBotK2 called the ops in #kubuntu-ops-monitor (john32 appears to be flooding, but emergency mode is on)
<ubottu> FloodBotK1 called the ops in #kubuntu-ops-monitor (john32 appears to be flooding, but emergency mode is on)
<ubottu> jatt called the ops in #ubuntu ()
<Myrtti> long fuse there
<Myrtti> called the ops two minutes after the perp had left the channel
<Myrtti> altho the perp just returned
<Myrtti> yeah, that would do it
<Myrtti> pleia2: http://teapottery.co.uk/Limited_Edition_Teapots_2/Wensleydale_Cheese_Teapot_92.htm
<pleia2> Myrtti: aww, wow!
<Dave2> a/win 77
<mneptok> MMMMMMMM! Wensleydale!
 * mneptok is a big fan of sharp cheeses
<Pici> Its the wrong trousers!
<ikonia> do you guys get that in the states ?
<Pici> which?
<Flannel> Wallace and Gromit? yes.
<ikonia> ooh, ok
<Pici> monstaRtruck is still around, may want to keep an eye on him
<pangolin> yup.
<Pici> I banned the other one though
<ubottu> FloodBotK2 called the ops in #kubuntu-ops-monitor (ishaan appears to be flooding, but emergency mode is on)
<ubottu> FloodBotK1 called the ops in #kubuntu-ops-monitor (ishaan appears to be flooding, but emergency mode is on)
<ubottu> FloodBot3 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (damiano appears to be flooding, but emergency mode is on)
<ubottu> FloodBotK2 called the ops in #kubuntu-ops-monitor (daghter appears to be flooding, but emergency mode is on)
<ubottu> FloodBotK1 called the ops in #kubuntu-ops-monitor (daghter appears to be flooding, but emergency mode is on)
 * genii-around sets fire to K2
<ubottu> FloodBotK2 called the ops in #kubuntu-ops-monitor (daghter appears to be flooding, but emergency mode is on)
<ubottu> FloodBotK1 called the ops in #kubuntu-ops-monitor (daghter appears to be flooding, but emergency mode is on)
<Pici> ...
<Myrtti> BURN BABY BURN
 * ryanakca thought FloodBots would +q people?
<Pici> not if they're stuck on emergency mode
<genii-around> The user is new and keeps pasting output into channel, the bots are in emergency mode and not enforcing flood control
<genii-around> ( stuck in emergency mode )
#ubuntu-ops 2011-11-04
<syrinx_> so, is this where I come to beg for forgiveness?
<Tm_T> hi syrinx
<syrinx_> Tm_T: hello
<Tm_T> syrinx_: I'm a bit busy atm so I might not be able to help in quick pace, sorry for that
<syrinx_> Tm_T: no problem, I was just wondering if you could lift the ban I asked ikonia for a few months ago.
<Tm_T> sorry ^
<Tm_T> syrinx_: I think your best bet is to catch ikonia on this
<syrinx_> no worries, im working anyway
<syrinx_> is it ok to stay here, or go to another channel for that?
<Tm_T> unfortunately no idling here
<syrinx_> alright, ill try to catch him elsewhere
<syrinx_> thank you, Tm_T
<Tm_T> np, good luck
<bazhang> @login
<ubottu> Error: You are not identified
<ikonia> oooh
<ikonia> @login
<ubottu> Error: You are not identified
<ikonia> I think you'll find I am
<ikonia> and yet btlogin works
<bazhang> same
<Corey> Quite.
<Corey> @login
<ubottu> Error: You are not identified
<Corey> LIES!
<ikonia> Corey: kline ubottu until it plays ball
<Myrtti> bazhang: welcome back
<bazhang> Myrtti, hi
<Tm_T> hai
<ubottu> FloodBotK1 called the ops in #kubuntu-ops-monitor (Fagio appears to be flooding, but emergency mode is on)
<ubottu> FloodBotK2 called the ops in #kubuntu-ops-monitor (Fagio appears to be flooding, but emergency mode is on)
<h00k> I don't have time to deal with monstaRtruck in #ubuntu
<ubottu> EvilResistance called the ops in #ubuntu (monstaRtruck)
<ubottu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (repeated abuse from monstartruck)
#ubuntu-ops 2011-11-05
<ubottu> FloodBot3 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (eristikophiles appears to be flooding, but emergency mode is on)
<ubottu> In ubottu, chazwoza said: so this is the support channel?
<ubottu> FloodBotK2 called the ops in #kubuntu-ops-monitor (tim_ appears to be flooding, but emergency mode is on)
<ubottu> FloodBotK1 called the ops in #kubuntu-ops-monitor (tim_ appears to be flooding, but emergency mode is on)
<Myrtti> !away > Pilif12p
<Myrtti> healthy attitude he has
<Myrtti> not
 * Logan_ pokes the ops.
<pangolin> about?
<Logan_> pangolin: Maschio_40 is sending an Italian greeting via PM automatically to everyone who joins the channel.
<Logan_> I just tested it with two clients.
<pangolin> what does it say? I didn't get anything
<Logan_> <Maschio_40> Ciao, Bella Ciao
<LjL> i didn't get it either
<Logan_> Here, I'll quite my "Test" and try again.
<Logan_> *quit
<Logan_> Hmm... didn't happen this time.
<Logan_> Oh, well, he quit.
<LjL> well he's gone anyway
<Logan_> That works too. :P
<LjL> the quit message was perhaps debatable in italian
<pangolin> thanks for looking out Logan_
<LjL> in case we're looking for an excuse to banforward anyway
<Logan_> Thanks for your patience. :)
<pangolin> up to you LjL if you want to set a ban
<LjL> i don't want to set anything
<LjL> i'm in nicotine withdrawal, i only want a cigarette >_>
 * pangolin hands LjL a smoke
<Pici> LjL: on purpose?
<LjL> pangolin: no! vade retro, i must resist ;(
<LjL> Pici: yesh
<pangolin> LjL: you don't want to be cool any longer?
<LjL> i don't want to be broke the day i need to pay for my cures for cancer ;(
<pangolin> Doesn't Italy have universal health care?
<LjL> yeah, they kill you slowly for free
<pangolin> heh
<pangolin> that is the funniest thing I read today
<pangolin> thank you :)
<pangolin> By not smoking you are wasting all the taxes your parents pay so you can have the choice to smoke and be killed slowly for free.
<pangolin> I think this is very selfish of you.
 * pangolin hands LjL a smoke.
<LjL> must refuse, i made a promise ;(
<pangolin> good boy
<EvilResistance> is it generally considered improper to advertise a website / channel / irc network in #ubuntu?
<ldunn> yes.
<EvilResistance> then two things...
<EvilResistance> (1) ChrisWere should be talked to
<EvilResistance> and (2) there should be a factoid about it
<Flannel> EvilResistance: You already talked to him about it.
 * Pici thinks about factoids.
<EvilResistance> Flannel:  i meant if he continues - i'll be off in approx. 15 minutes at a client's fixing their equipment.
<Pici> Thats what we're here for :)
<Pici> Flannel: Perhaps pointing them to -offtopic wasn't the best...
<EvilResistance> hate to say it but i agree
<EvilResistance> ;P
<Flannel> Pici: I'd rather have a long discussion with them in -ot than in #u, so no, I disagree.
<Pici> Flannel: Nono, thats not what I meant.
<Flannel> Although I think he needs to look up the defnition of "advertising" and how it fits with "just wanted to show off some work"
<Pici> Flannel: Thats the point I meant.
<Flannel> I was going to mention the above to him, but people had already jumped on him at that point; I figured the slightly different message wouldn't have gotten through.
<Pici> Fair enough :)
<Flannel> There are ways to bring up things like that, and -ot would be a suitable place.  [join][nothing][link drop] isn't a viable method though.
<ubottu> In #ubuntu-motu, Laney said: !ppu is Per-Package Uploader. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers#PerPackage for more information and application process.
<Pici> !ppu is Per-Package Uploader. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers#PerPackage for more information and application process.
<ubottu> I'll remember that, Pici
#ubuntu-ops 2011-11-06
<bazhang> <hhhzzzarn> btw, i am leaving now. I think there should more specialist channels instead of one big channel.
<bazhang> hah
<bazhang> his last several bits of "advice": reinstall, check the forums, mint has all this built in, and simply "dunno"
<bazhang> monstartruck has had warnings before. prone to severe ot
<pangolin> bazhang: yup, no more warnings for him
<bazhang> pangolin, iirc h00k mentioned him just yesterday or so
<pangolin> yeah
<pangolin> meta-coder is probably referring to the phoronix article saying that Ubuntu won't fit on one cd as of 12.04, nothing confirmed yet afaik.
<bazhang> yeppers
<EvilResistance> alert!
<EvilResistance> #ubuntu is being spammed
<EvilResistance> and ubottu isnt responding to !ops
<ubottu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (precisio1 appears to be flooding, but emergency mode is on)
<ubottu> EvilResistance called the ops in #ubuntu (precisio1)
<EvilResistance> oh finally
<EvilResistance> laggy piece of...
<EvilResistance> Jordan_U:  thanks
<Jordan_U> Can someone else please deal with it from here. I'm busy.
<Ignacio_> Alguien me ayuda
<Ignacio_> estudiante@estudiante-laptop:/usr/share$ sudo apt-get -f install E: No se puede escribir en /var/cache/apt/ E: No se pudieron analizar o abrir las listas de paquetes o el archivo de estado.
<ubottu> In ubottu, mewerner_arand said: !btrfs is <reply> Btrfs is a new filesystem with a lot of new features, it is currently marked as experimental, and should not be used for important data, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/btrfs for more info.
<pangolin> !btrfs
<LjL> !btrfs is <reply> Btrfs is a new filesystem available for Ubuntu. It is currently marked as experimental, and should not be used for important data. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/btrfs
<ubottu> I'll remember that, LjL
<LjL> @mark #ubuntu lolalololabot First being "fun" to people telling him to avoid repeated punctuation mark, then randomly telling a user to "get lost".
<ubottu> The operation succeeded.
#ubuntu-ops 2012-10-29
<bazhang> <Calinou> now have fun disabling secure boot(R)
<bazhang> is that a reference to UEFI?
<bazhang> and is it an issue?
<mneptok> it is an issue with Windows 8, IIRC
<mneptok> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2012-June/035445.html
<bazhang> well calinou seemed to be referring to sly 's inability to install Ubuntu
<bazhang> thanks mneptok
<IdleOne> Calinou is often condescending in his replies, least that is how I read them.
<mneptok> bazhang: it only matters if you want to keep Win8 logo-ness and bootloader.
<mneptok> (i think)
 * mneptok doesn't really care about Windows-anything
<bazhang> @mark #ubuntu  [Calinou] (~Calinou@unaffiliated/calinou constantly offtopic, rambling anti-ms screed
<ubottu> The operation succeeded.
<ubottu> In ubottu, RoyK said: icinga is a fork of Nagios meant to take developemnt furthere where Nagios has hardly evolved the last years
<genii-around> Hm
<IdleOne> informative factoid request
<tsimpson> someone should write a wiki page for it, then a factoid to point people to it
<IdleOne> I would ask RoyK to do it but he is about as nice as a angry bull
<IdleOne> people never cease to surprise me
<ikonia> he's got a bee in his bonnet about it
<ikonia> just wants eveyone to know how bad nagios has evolved, rather than the positives of icinga
<ikonia> until he can do something along those lines, I told him not to bother, clearly he's just ignored that
<mneptok> "if i commit a ton of changes to Nagios today, your factoid looks ill-informed." end of discussion.
<IdleOne> Doesn't tonyyaruss o work on nagios?
<IdleOne> for some reason i think he does
<IdleOne> could just be my imagination again.
<mneptok> !icinga
<mneptok> !bazinga
<mneptok> UNGAWA!
<bazhang> thats what the trolls call me
<mneptok> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfZuh4rGaiI
<bazhang> hehe
<ubottu> In #ubuntu, arabi said: ubottu : I am learning mysql that is why i installer lamp
<ubottu> In #ubuntu, theadmin said: !xmonad is <reply> xmonad is a tiling window manager written and configured in Haskell. For more information, refer to http://xmonad.org
<bazhang> <OpenBoxArch> Moogs: Run Arch LInux
 * genii-around watches the water slowly rise in the basement and sips his coffee, squeegee in hand
<IdleOne> sunny here 12C
<IdleOne> little wind
<IdleOne> think we'll get snow from this?
<genii-around> Raining moderately hard here not much wind yet but supposed to get 80-100kph with gusts to 120kph
<IdleOne> snow on Halloween is always fun
<genii-around> Hehe
<mneptok> 19C, clear and sunny
<Unit193> 41Â°F / 5Â°C (Wind Chill: 31Â°F / 0Â°C)  here, about the same inside.
<Myrtti> snowing
<knome> hullo.
 * genii-around throws a slushball at someone's house
<knome> someones?
<knome> hey genii-around :)
<genii-around> Hi knome :-)
<genii-around> I may have to sleep at work depending how bad the rain gets
<knome> awwh :/
<knome> might need to go to sleep soon too
#ubuntu-ops 2012-10-30
<physically_fit> so why am i banned in ubuntu-offtopic?
<physically_fit> also, who did it?
<physically_fit> anybody here?
<physically_fit> i bet ikonia banned me
<physically_fit> so?
<physically_fit> i want to enter ubuntu-offtopic
<physically_fit> Amaranth, bkerensa Corey DJones elky h00k head_victim
<physically_fit> idle jrib jussi01_ LjL  Mamarok
<bkerensa> physically_fit: please do not mention everyone in the channel
<physically_fit> hi bkerensa can you solve my problem?
<bkerensa> Ask your question and someone will address is in due time
<physically_fit> can you unban me there?
<bkerensa> No I cannot
<physically_fit> who can?
<physically_fit> what did i dooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo?????????
<physically_fit> !!!!!!!
<bkerensa> physically_fit: an op for that channel or the person who set the ban but only if the ban can be removed. I don't know the circumstances
<jrib> physically_fit: come back at a later time when ikonia is available
<physically_fit> jrib, did he ban me?
<physically_fit> at least i want to know who did it- i have no clue what i did
<jrib> physically_fit: yes, thus why you should wait for him to be around
<physically_fit> i left the channel by myself, no one kicked me
<physically_fit> so i was surprised to finf myself banned
<physically_fit> find*
<elky> This sounds like lint.
<physically_fit> what time does he wake up?
<elky> in about 8 hours time.
<IdleOne> physically_fit: you can tell when he is active in #ubuntu. when you see him active there rejoin here and speak with him.
<physically_fit> why does he hate me????????
<physically_fit> i hardly ever chat there and he bans me all the time
<IdleOne> I doubt that is the case
<elky> abuse of the question mark key, possibly.
<IdleOne> anyway, ikonia is not here right now. come back later when you see him active in #ubuntu.
<physically_fit> maybe he's in luv with me and wants my attention..... well he GOT IT!!!!!!!!!
<elky> are you trying to be creepy?
<IdleOne> ok, now you are starting to annoy me
<physically_fit> IdleOne, friend, i like you, you are nice to me, please don't be mad at me
<IdleOne> physically_fit: Please part this channel now.
<physically_fit> blame ikonia i am here! au revoir!
<physically_fit> why ubuntu-offtopic has no logs?
<physically_fit> IdleOne
<physically_fit> hey pastor bazhang,  do you remember me?
<bazhang> physically_fit, #ubuntu is NOT the place to ask that
<physically_fit> no one answered me here
<bazhang> so?
<bazhang> sometimes we dont get what we want
<physically_fit> i am happy we are chatting again
<physically_fit> last thing i knew about you is that you left offtopic
<bazhang> why does it matter if -ot has logs or not
<physically_fit> bazhang, i just wanted to do some research on why i got banned there
<bazhang> physically_fit, you were requested to come back when ikonia is active; he's not, after such a short time since your last visit here
<physically_fit> yeah, i just got curious why that channel has no logs
<bazhang> physically_fit, please, return at a later time, as has already been requested.
<physically_fit> ok, ok. good bye friend. lots of hugs <3
<elky> ...
<bazhang> <lahwran> bazhang: the amazon search thingy is as spyware as spyware gets
<bazhang> FUD detected
<ubottu> xangua called the ops in #ubuntu (bitchaddict)
<bazhang> augh
<bkerensa> Jordan_U: you like speedy ninja
<bkerensa> :D
<bkerensa> I had it ready and boom u got it
<ubottu> In #ubuntu, rolling said: !ops rolling is back
<rolling> muahahahahahaha
<rolling> i will KILL you
<rolling> monkeys
<bazhang> rolling, exit the channel please
<rolling> all people drop dead
<rolling> comcast rules!
<rolling> mman1@aol.com> recipient ok
<rolling> 250 2.1.5 <crempame@aol.com> recipient ok
<rolling> 250 2.1.5 <crescendo32@aol.com> recipient ok
<rolling> :D
<rolling> niggers
<rolling> i owN gnu!
<rolling> ;)
 * rolling slaps tsimpson around a bit with a large trout
<rolling> hooker simpson
<bazhang> rolling, just exit.
<chu> Surely you have better things to do with your time...
<rolling> Ill be back
<rolling> another day
<Tm_T> morning dear fellows
<bkerensa> morning
<ubottu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (repeated abuse from tobias_)
<physically_fit> i need to talk to ikonia for banning me
<IdleOne> physically_fit: I looked into it and it appears that you were banned from #ubuntu-offtopic because you have been cross-posting questions in both #ubuntu and #ubuntu-offtopic .
<IdleOne> Seems you were told not to do that but continued
<IdleOne> physically_fit: Does this sound like it makes any sense?
<ikonia> one moment if you need me
<physically_fit> i am trying to remember what i said last time i was here
<ikonia> hi physically_fit sorry I wasn't around earlier
<ikonia> I'll explain to try to be clear as I appreciate you where not in the channel when I put the ban on you
<physically_fit> i think i was getting a warning message when i was trying to update an old desktop i have
<ikonia> had you been in the channel I would have spoken to you
<physically_fit> yeah i wasnt
<ikonia> physically_fit: in the past, you've been banned because you've not been able to follow instructions and kept asking the same questions in multiple ubuntu channels despite being asked and then told not to
<ikonia> you're aware of that correct ?
<ikonia> (eg: how do I get my .nl radio station, does anyone have a proxy)
<physically_fit> but they dont answer me in ubuntu, and in offtopic things are more relaxed so i feel free to ask whatever i want
<ikonia> ok - and that is the problem
<ikonia> how many times have you been told not to do that
<ikonia> you asked a question in #ubuntu, waited 90 seconds then asked in #ubuntu-offtopic
<physically_fit> ikonia, you are the only one who gets bother for that, no one else cares
<ikonia> physically_fit: that may be your perecption, but you have been asked not to do it multiple times, banned as a warning and then had the ban removed
<physically_fit> and that proxy thing, that happened like i year ago, i didn't even remembered it
<ikonia> you've been warned mulitple times after that
<ikonia> so when I saw you do it again yesterday I put a ban on you
<ikonia> that's the bottom line/explination
<physically_fit> thanks IdleOne for checking that thing for me
<ikonia> can you please focus on the topic of this channel
<ikonia> it's part of the problem that's getting you banned
<physically_fit> what did i do now?
<physically_fit> i want to talk about the movie Looper, have you seen it?
<ikonia> not on topic for this channel~
<ikonia> I used it as an exa
<ikonia> I used it only as an example to show how long we have been telling you to follow the channels topics and not cross-post
<physically_fit> after all the times we've chatted i think that we are friends at that point, even if we only talk about bans and stuff
<physically_fit> at this point*
<ikonia> that has nothing to do with this
<ikonia> if you consider us friends or not has nothing to do with you not being able to follow the channels guidelines
<physically_fit> i'll try not to do it again
<ikonia> I'm sorry, but I've heard that before
<ikonia> from my perspective I'm leaving you out of #ubuntu-offtopic for a while
<ikonia> I've left you in #ubuntu so that you can gain support should you need it
<ikonia> which seems a reasonable compromise
<physically_fit> this sounds to me like discrimination
<physically_fit> i don't come here often
<ikonia> that doesn't mean you don't have to follow the rules
<physically_fit> like once or twice a month
<ikonia> again how frequent you visit the channel has nothing to do with this
<ikonia> and if you don't come to the channel often you won't miss it while you are banned
<ikonia> you still have access to #ubuntu should you need technical help/support
<physically_fit> i wouldn't be here if i didn't think this is unfair
<ikonia> the fact that you knew to join here shows exactly how fair it is
<physically_fit> tell me how long i will be banned
<ikonia> as you've been here that often to be told not to do it
<ikonia> until there is a noted behaviour in your ability to participate in the channel within the guidelines
<ikonia> then you'll be welcome back to #ubuntu-offtopic
<physically_fit> offtopic doesn't even have logs, so you are being way too strict considering that fact
<ikonia> the lack of logs has nothing to do with it
<physically_fit> it has
<ikonia> you seem to be looking for anything to justify the fact that you've been warned and continue to not follow the guidelines
<ikonia> so at that point, I'll end this conversation with you, we'll get back to you when we feel it time to remove the ban
<ikonia> you're welcome to check in to request info on it's status
<physically_fit> i asked how long the ban and you haven't answered
<ikonia> physically_fit: no set time
<ikonia> apologies I wasn't clear on that - no set time, but when we see you being able to use the channels properly
<physically_fit> why do you say "we feel" isn't this just your decision?
<ikonia> no
<IdleOne> physically_fit: The whole of the Ubuntu community has !guidelines that need to be followed. Channels being logged or not has nothing to do with how people need to behave in the community.
<ikonia> others can act also
<ikonia> so if others feel your behaviour is acceptable to use both channels without cross-posting and being a pain/problem, they are welcome to remove the ban
<ikonia> not just me, hence "we"
<ikonia> (anyone in the team)
<physically_fit> alrighty, do whatever you want. i don't like to chat too much, i feel tired now. thanks for your time and concern, friends.
<ikonia> no problem
<ikonia> bye
#ubuntu-ops 2012-10-31
<ubottu> In ubottu, riqdiiz said: who is your father?
<DJones> the bot should respond with "Lord Vader is my father" :)
<Tm_T> nah
<ubottu> In #kubuntu, andybrine said: !illegal sure it is :) Hahaha a world of knowledge i here tonight
#ubuntu-ops 2012-11-01
<gnomefreak> any IRCC members here by chance
<Tm_T> gnomefreak: yes
<Tm_T> timing++
<bazhang> dpnm!
<Pici> not my usual keyboard
<bazhang> down something something MINT!
<bazhang> no way he's trolling
<bazhang> Pici, did the blackout in parts of NJ affect you?
<Pici> bazhang: I
<Pici> er, stupid keyboard
<Pici> bazhang: I haven't had power since Tuesday night
<Pici> Hopefully its on when
<Pici> I get home from work
<bazhang> Pici, whoa , I'm sorry to hear that. do you have an alternate place to stay?
<Pici> Nah, I'm okay though.  I have hot water, and candles to read with.
<bazhang> heh ok
<bazhang> and a phone to IRC with, presumably
<Pici> My dad had an emergency generator, so I recharged there, plus the hospital was on their generators and was one of the first places to get real power service back
<Pici> Its been a weird week.
<bazhang> sounds like it
<bazhang> @mark #ubuntu evilbetty (evilbetty@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-qbkyrryyvxhwlcrp)   anyway have fun im sure i'll find a chan without ircgestapo
<ubottu> The operation succeeded.
<rolling> Hello
<rolling> good morning
<rolling> QUICK
<rolling> BAN ME
<rolling> BEFORE I PASTE CREDIT CARD
<rolling> :O
<bazhang> no
<bazhang> just exit the channel
<rolling> no
<rolling> 4244533000002525	 02/14 	114	 RALUCA DUDAS 	ADDRESS	 CITY 	state	 zip code	 ROMANIA
<bazhang> rolling, thats enough
<rolling> HAHAHAHAHAHA
<rolling> 4622390119701022 04/14 131	 CRISTINA SEPEDE	 PO BOX 930	 SPRING HILL 	QUEENSLAND	 4000 	Australia 	0400787560
<AlanBell> charming
<bazhang> seems to be Troll O'Clock
<ubottu> yofel called the ops in #kubuntu ()
#ubuntu-ops 2012-11-02
<ubottu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (repeated abuse from tdlguik1c)
<ubottu> FloodBot2 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (flood (16))
<ubottu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (repeated abuse from tdlguik1c)
<ubottu> blazemore called the ops in #ubuntu ()
<bkerensa> addressing in PM
<bkerensa> monitoring
<bkerensa> :s
<bkerensa> AlanBell: :) your awake
<bkerensa> gnight
<AlanBell> wide awake :)
<IdleOne> !guidelines > Lova
<bazhang> some people just don't know when to stop
<ubottu> cfhowlett called the ops in #ubuntustudio (monfis:)
<ubottu> In ubottu, smartboyhw said: !no ops-#ubuntustudio is <reply> Help:  PING jussi01, joejaxx, holstein, astraljava, ScottL or scott-work
<IdleOne> !ops-#ubuntustudio
<ubottu> Help! jussi01, joejaxx, luisbg, tsmithe or _MMA_
<ubottu> k1l_ called the ops in #ubuntu ()
<jussi> !ops-#ubuntustudio
<ubottu> Help! jussi01, joejaxx, luisbg, tsmithe or _MMA_
<jussi> !no, ops-#ubuntustudio is <reply>Help:  PING jussi01, joejaxx, holstein, astraljava, ScottL or scott-work
<ubottu> I'll remember that jussi
<jussi> !ops-#ubuntustudio > smartboyhw
#ubuntu-ops 2012-11-03
<rolling> fucking guess whos here
<rolling> o.o
<TheLordOfTime> rolling's spamming in #ubuntu
<ubottu> wilee-nilee called the ops in #ubuntu (rolling)
<rolling> Hahahahahahahaha
<rolling> 4253030074535603	 01/15	 815 	katarina matovic 	ADDRESS 	CITY	 state	 zip code	 PORTUGAL
<TheLordOfTime> spamming here now too :/
<rolling> hill billys
<rolling> !ops lol
<rolling> !ops jrib wanking again
<ubottu> rolling: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<gnomefreak> anyone have the email for the IIRC handy?
<Unit193> irc-council@lists.ubuntu.com ?
<gnomefreak> Unit193: thanks. does the ? mean you are not sure?
<Unit193> More that I wasn't sure if that's what you were looking for.
<gnomefreak> Unit193: ah, im jusdt need to ask a favor due to kllost email on my end
<gnomefreak> i will try it thanks
<gnomefreak> ok swent that email, thanks again Unit193
<Unit193> Sure.
<ubottu> elkng called the ops in #ubuntu-offtopic ()
<TheLordOfTime> anyone for -offtopic to deal with an excess flooder?
<TheLordOfTime> (#ubuntu-offtopic that is)
<TheLordOfTime> freenode fixed it, thanks.
<dax> I set +b *!*@unaffiliated/fira$##fix_your_connection in #ubuntu-offtopic. I'll keep an eye on ##fix_your_connection and remove it when it's no longer applicable.
<Jordan_U> dax: Thanks (I don't have op powers in -offtopic or I would have done it myself).
<TheLordOfTime> so, question, since Jordan_U said other ops should chime in because its 2AM where he/she is:  TheLordOfTime> question: is asking how to circumvent policies in place on a network on topic in #ubuntu?  if not, rigo's asking how to get his remote desktop working so he can violate corporate-set policies on his environment.  (read the scrollbacks and what I asked him)
<Tm_T> TheLordOfTime: we usually are not aiding on breaking rules/laws
<TheLordOfTime> Tm_T, that's what i thought, but i wanted an op to confirm that's the policy, if that's the case, you may need to poke rigo about that, given the subject matter and them confirming my suspicions
<TheLordOfTime> <TheLordOfTime> rigo, sounds like you're wanting to bypass the proxy at your location to circumvent policies.
<TheLordOfTime> <rigo> yes. it doesnt sounds like. it IS the thing :)
<Tm_T> TheLordOfTime: but it's often very gray area, for example if they wouldn't mention for what they need certain technology for, we wouldn't know we would be aiding on circumventing policies
<TheLordOfTime> Tm_T, they confirmed that's what they're trying to do when i suspected it.
<TheLordOfTime> Tm_T, i'm highly wary of that stuff anyways.  also, someone posted a forkbomb in -offtopic.
<Tm_T> forkbomb is instaban
<TheLordOfTime> then someone go deal with it?
<TheLordOfTime> or, to work off of what Jordan_U told me, is there no -offtopic op on?
<Tm_T> I am on it, I try talk sense first though
<TheLordOfTime> that works.  in any case, i confirmed what i thought, that helping to circumvent policies is against the general idea of the channel.
<TheLordOfTime> i'll leave it to ops to decide how to handle rigo in #ubuntu, i'm going to return to stabbing my php5 fork :P
<Seveas> noone4 seems to be something odd
<Seveas> not active in channels, just attempting to initiate DCC chats
<Seveas> doesn't seem to annoy too many people just yet, but look out for more reports?
<Tm_T> I got that dcc chat too for ther record
<IdleOne> Do did I
<IdleOne> So*
<IdleOne> How can I help you gordonjcp ?
<IdleOne> gordonjcp: Please don't idle in here
<gordonjcp> IdleOne: okay then
<lhavelund> um.
<lhavelund> wasn't RamchndraApta in -ot banned a few days ago
<lhavelund> i'm pretty sure i did
<lhavelund> id 52033
<lhavelund> i have forgotten how to look those up.
<tsimpson> search for the id in the bantracker (web api)
<lhavelund> that is vaguely helpful.
<lhavelund> ._.
<tsimpson> unless you mean @bansearch?
<lhavelund> ideally i'd prefer to access it on the web api
<lhavelund> but I've forgotten just about everything to do with it
<tsimpson> then just search for the nick/mask
<tsimpson> optionally in some channel, optionally by some op
<lhavelund> where is the web interface located again?
<tsimpson> type @btlogin
<lhavelund> dang
<lhavelund> i knew i'd forgotten something
<lhavelund> no output
<lhavelund> @btlogin
<lhavelund> unless, of course, i need to do it in channel
<mneptok> @login
<ubottu> Error: You are not identified
<lhavelund> @login
<ubottu> Error: Your hostmask doesn't match or your password is wrong.
<mneptok> that first
<lhavelund> aha.
<lhavelund> am I still in the db, tsimpson?
<tsimpson> lhavelund: probably under your old nick
<lhavelund> that is a possibility
<tsimpson> I'll add your current cloak to the bot, so it knows you
<MenZa> perfect, cheers
<lhavelund> i didn't realise i hadn't done much operating since i nickchanged
<tsimpson> see if you can @whoami
<tsimpson> it should say menza
<lhavelund> it does
<lhavelund> :D
<tsimpson> well that's my good deed for the day done :)
<lhavelund> :D
<lhavelund> appreciate it, tsimpson
<lhavelund> how's things around here these days?
<lhavelund> i see mneptok still lurks. some things never change.
<lhavelund> Hi, RamchandraApte.
<RamchandraApte> why did I get ...
<lhavelund> I banned an alternative IP of yours the other night for attempted (and unsuccessful) trolling.
<RamchandraApte> I didn't intend to troll
<lhavelund> one moment.
<lhavelund> i'm just finding the log.
<lhavelund> also, flooding.
<lhavelund> does "aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa" sound familiar?
<RamchandraApte> yes
<lhavelund> ok.
<lhavelund> do you now understand why you were banned?
<RamchandraApte> lhavelund: but why did I get kicked again now?
<lhavelund> Because you're just connecting from a different IP, evading the ban (whether intentional or not).
<lhavelund> Getting a new IP doesn't simply give you a clean slate.
<RamchandraApte> I didn't do it intentionally
<RamchandraApte> We off the modem in the night so ...
<mneptok> karma follows like the wheel follows the foot of the ox.
<RamchandraApte> How long is the kick?
<lhavelund> Until you promise me you'll shape up and a) not flood the channel, and b) not bait users into arguing with you.
<RamchandraApte> lhavelund: I'm not intenionally baiting users into arguing.
<RamchandraApte> I thought it was just a discussion.
<RamchandraApte> I won't flood the channel again
<lhavelund> 2012-10-30T08:50:33 <RamchandraApte> linux is crap
<lhavelund> 2012-10-30T08:50:55 <RamchandraApte> its a disorganised collection of projects patched (like band-aids) together by distros to make it workable
<lhavelund> you're entitled to anopinoin, but that's baiting to me.
<lhavelund> an opinion*
<RamchandraApte> lhavelund: ok, I was a little over-emotional but that is, in a lesser form, my opinion.
<RamchandraApte> s/little/
<lhavelund> which is perfectly ok. but i suggest you present your thoughts a little more pragmatically.
<RamchandraApte> lhavelund: ok.
<lhavelund> either way. assuming you'll be nice, i can lift the ban :)
<lhavelund> just keep it in mind for future reference.
<RamchandraApte> lhavelund: remember that I am muted on #python-offtopic so think twice.
<lhavelund> eh?
<mneptok> RamchandraApte: coming to Linux-specific channels if that is your opinion is more than confusing to me
<lhavelund> the #python* namespace has nothing to do with our channels or how we mod them.
<RamchandraApte> lhavelund: just giving you background info
<lhavelund> we have our policies, they have theirs.
<lhavelund> so
<lhavelund> you're asking me to reconsider removing your ban?
<RamchandraApte> yes
<lhavelund> ok, i won't remove the ban, then
<lhavelund> have a good day.
<RamchandraApte> you too :-)
<lhavelund> if there's nothing else i can help you with, please part the channel. :)
<lhavelund> *ahem*
<RamchandraApte> can you please unkick me
<lhavelund> unkick you?
<RamchandraApte>  yes.
<lhavelund> that's not technically possible
<lhavelund> but let me get this straight
<lhavelund> i say we can remove the ban if you agree to shape up. you ask me to reconsider, implying you're a troublesome user in the first place. i concede that, perhaps we should unban you.
<lhavelund> let me try to explain the terminology
<RamchandraApte> I just said you should think a bit more.
<lhavelund> 1) a kick means you are removed from the channel. not barred from entering it. you can instantly re-join, UNLESS
<RamchandraApte> I didn't mean to imply I was troublesome.
<lhavelund> 2) you're banned. a ban disallows you from entering the channel.
<lhavelund> ok, let's go back to square one, then.
<lhavelund> we believe most of our users are happy to shape up if we talk to them first.
<lhavelund> which is what we're doing with you now.
<RamchandraApte>   
<lhavelund> so, a simple question. if i allow you priviliges to re-enter the channel, will you contribute constructively and positively to the atmosphere of the channel, and not break any of our rules?
<RamchandraApte> lhavelund: yes
<lhavelund> right, good
<lhavelund> one final request, then.
<RamchandraApte> is the ubuntu code of conduct the rules?
<lhavelund> please stop asking for help with your python projects in the -offtopic channel. there are python channels available, and they are both more relevant, and presumably more knowledgable of the issue.
<lhavelund> !coc
<ubottu> The Ubuntu Code of Conduct is a community etiquette document to which we ask all Ubuntu users to adhere | http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/conduct  | For information on how to electronically sign the CoC, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SigningCodeofConduct | Watch http://static.screencasts.ubuntu.com/videos/2010/12/22/004-SigningCoC.ogv
<lhavelund> !o4o
<ubottu> Some topics are controversial and often end in negativity. Take care on subjects like war, race, religion, politics, gender, sexuality, drugs, potentially illegal activities and suicide. The topics are not banned; stating your position is ok, but trolling, baiting, hostility or repetition are not. If you are asked to stop, do so politely. Disputes to !appeals, please adhere to !freenode Policy and the !CodeOfConduct
<lhavelund> the code of conduct and additional rules apply in !o4o
<lhavelund> the code of conduct is a document we ask all community members and developers to adhere to. in the interest of practicalities and avoiding drama in -offtopic, we have additional rules in place to keep it a safe and comfortable place for everyone.
<RamchandraApte> lhavelund: I did sign it though I lost my signature.
<lhavelund> signing it is not necessary.
<lhavelund> !guidelines
<ubottu> The guidelines for using the Ubuntu channels can be found here: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines
<lhavelund> there are additional guidelines there.
<lhavelund> please take five minutes to read them, then return here.
<RamchandraApte> OK thanks
<RamchandraApte> done
<lhavelund> you read 1959 words in less than two minutes.
<lhavelund> try again.
<RamchandraApte> I skimmed through it.
<RamchandraApte> I read the main points of the Ubuntu code of conduct.
<lhavelund> right.
<lhavelund> either way. please behave accordingly in our channels, and there will be no more issues.
<lhavelund> you are no longer banned, RamchandraApte.
<lhavelund> feel free to re-enter the channel, and part this one.
<lhavelund> have a good day.
<RamchandraApte> OK bye
<RamchandraApte> you too
<lhavelund> i really haven't done one of those in far too long.
<IdleOne> lhavelund: remove the original ban while you're at it :)
<lhavelund> i suppose i should, yes
<lhavelund> thanks, IdleOne
<IdleOne> thank you.
<lhavelund> sorted
<tsimpson> lhavelund: by the way, there is #ubuntu-ops-team now too
<IdleOne> supa sekrit channel
<bazhang> <Wug> noone4: don't dcc people randomly
<bazhang> another complaint about him
 * lhavelund hugs bazhang 
<bazhang> got him in PM
<bazhang> @mark #ubuntu michealPW] (~michealpw@165.154.108.196): michealPW   constantly offtopic, warned repeatedly
<ubottu> The operation succeeded.
<bazhang> lhavelund, nice to see you back
<lhavelund> bazhang: :) good to see you.
<lhavelund> bazhang: i was never gone, just very inactive.
<bazhang> even the floodbots are getting d c c spam from noone4
<Tm_T> hi lhavelund
<Tm_T> what, things change around here?
<AlanBell> http://ubottu.com/ircc/2012/11/03/ban-management-changes/
<AlanBell> ^^ changes :)
<knome> c-c-c-changes
<knome> hullo AlanBell :)
<AlanBell> hi knome
<bazhang> augh
<bazhang> he just gave his teamviewer info on the open channel
<ubottu> bekks called the ops in #ubuntu (desu)
<ubottu> FloodBot3 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join (1715 users, 4 overflows, 1719 limit))
<ubottu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join (1710 users, 4 overflows, 1714 limit))
<ubottu> FloodBot2 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join (1717 users, 4 overflows, 1721 limit))
<jrib> ikonia: you sure he didn't mean he wouldn't mislead people anymore? Could read that both ways to be honest
<ikonia> nope, not sure
<ikonia> but fed up with these fools "it would be easier to uninstall binaries on arch than it would on ubuntu"
<ikonia> so I don't see a loss
<ikonia> sorry if that seems harsh
#ubuntu-ops 2012-11-04
<ubottu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join (1623 users, 5 overflows, 1628 limit))
 * rolling will paste amex soon
<Tm_T> good morning
<Jordan_U> It's funny, your saying "good morning" has become a remeinder to me that I should probably be asleep already :)
<Tm_T> Jordan_U: thats what friends are for, right? (:
<Jordan_U> :)
<Tm_T> maybe I should start saying "Jordan, sleep!" instead of "good morning" (;
<Jordan_U> If only I would actually listen.
 * Tm_T huggles Jordan_U
<milo64> ikonia and IdleOne
<IdleOne> Good morning
<milo64> Good morning
<milo64> it's 19:44 here
<milo64> IdleOne, long time no see! We've met few years ago.
<IdleOne> How can I help you
<milo64> uh... later. then.
<IdleOne> sure.
<IdleOne> random as usual
<ikonia> do you know him ?
<ikonia> he pm'd me earlier saying we where close friends,
<ikonia> I suggested I didn't know him and he said it must be you
<IdleOne> he usually uses the nick suttiwit apparently we have been friends for many years
<IdleOne> I have seen him around irc, can't say much more then that
<Fuchs> he usually was around with a different name, and you both know him
<IdleOne> heh, I do?
<Fuchs> I do think so, he was around in #ubuntu often as far as memory serves. Anyway, breakfast
<AlanBell> suttiwit==ormie
<IdleOne> he just messaged me. seems I kicked him a few years ago
<IdleOne> heh I set a @mark on him here also
 * Fuchs hands an AlanBell to cookie
<AlanBell> nom
<bazhang> long time issue in -uk iirc
<AlanBell> hmm, don't think so. ormie is a cartoon pig thing apparently, but I don't think ormie/suttiwit is phineas/bolt which is probably what you were thinking of
<bazhang> ah right
<bazhang> currently Mr_Twinkles amongst other nicks
<AlanBell> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxmbmcDrXRk
<ubottu> wilee-nilee called the ops in #ubuntu (Nickiniz)
<IdleOne> ...
<mneptok> serefe
<ubottu> wilee-nilee called the ops in #ubuntu (sloppy)
<ubottu> FloodBot2 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (clone flood)
<ubottu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (clone flood)
<ubottu> FloodBot3 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (clone flood)
<AlanBell> jrib: fahd too perhaps?
<jrib> indeed
<jrib> let's see how the pm goes
<jrib> thanks AlanBell
#ubuntu-ops 2013-10-28
<Pici> !prayer
<ubottu> Dear $DEITY, Give me strength to understand and work with users who question my logic, the rules, netiquette, and common sense. Give me resilience to teach them the basics of Linux, Ubuntu, Community Guidelines, and IRC. Allow me not to stray to nitpicking, argument, foul language, or leisurely op abuse. Deliver me my daily xkcd, User Friendly, LWN, /. and Planet Ubuntu, and guard over my encrypted drives. Let it be so.
<IdleOne> Wonder what zipper wanted
<DJones> Maybe you've helped them in the past & its a typical ping the last person that helped
<IdleOne> not a chance
<IdleOne> I was rather sarcastic and dismissive to them last time we spoke
<DJones> Heh
<Pici> IdleOne: always be yourself
<DJones> If its important, I'm sure they'll return and ask
<IdleOne> lol Pici, you sure you want that from me?
<IdleOne> mneptok: it is all YOUR fault.
<jussi> poor mneptok
<jussi> mneptok: dont worry though, we love you still :D
<IdleOne> well, yeah of course.
<Lanser> Hello, why am I muted on #ubuntu?
<Lanser> please unmute.
<Lanser> DJones?
<k1l_> lanser aka syko you know exactly why you are muted
<Lanser> it's been a month, k1l_.
<Lanser> I've learned my lessons.
<Lanser> now, you may unmute me without no fear of me breaking the rules :-)
<Lanser> I just want to contribute, k1l_.
<k1l_> you have been trouble for a long time. you ban evaded with different nicks, accounts and ips. you blackmailed the operators. ....
<k1l_> i see this behaviour everytime you got a support issue. but after that issue is solved you become the problem user you used to be. im not willing to release that ban
<k1l_> i told you you should make a clear start on ubuntuforums or askubuntu. maybe that way of communication suits you better.
<Lanser> k1l_: I will not do this again.
<Lanser> everybody deserves chances, kl1_.
<Lanser> even Flannel agrees somehow.
<k1l_> Lanser: what about the times you came in here pretending someone else to get the bans lifted? that didnt happen only ones.
<Lanser> That was a MONTH ago, k1l_.
<Lanser> I have learned my lessons.
<Lanser> just one last chance, k1l_?
<k1l_> to be honest: a user who acted  that much against several freenode policies schould not be allowed to wear a cloak.
<Lanser> k1l_: you're not an freenode-operator, so yes.
<Lanser> anyways, unmute me.
<Lanser> I will not break the #ubuntu's rules.
<Lanser> I'll behave.
<IdleOne> Lanser: Why do you need access to #ubuntu?
<Lanser> So I can contribute, and help people.
<IdleOne> ok.
<Lanser2> did I get unbanned?
<Lanser2> I just got unbanned for a minute.
<k1l_> yes
<Lanser2> than I got banned again.
<Lanser2> k1l_: why.
<k1l_> because you broke ubuntu guidelines and freenode rules, again
<Lanser2> I am not breaking freenode rules, k1l_>
<Lanser2> anyways, k1l_.
<Lanser2> unmute me.
<IdleOne> you did not get unbanned
<Lanser2> I did get unbanned.
<k1l_> the staff should really take a look at you since you were ban evading on purpose again
<Lanser2> IdleOne: can I just fucking use a proxy.
<IdleOne> you rejoined without your cloak to evade the ban.
<IdleOne> Now you have no chances left.
<Lanser2> is using a proxy to ban-evade allowed?
<Lanser2> and changing a nick.
<Lanser2> oh wait
<Lanser2> sorry
<Lanser2> dude
<Lanser2> im sorry
<IdleOne> no, also please don't swear
<Lanser> why is swearing not allowed?
<Lanser> everybody knows the word "fuck"
<Lanser> nobody under 12 doesn't hang out at #ubuntu.
<Lanser> plus, its not that offensive.
<Lanser> fuck fuck fuck fuck.
<Lanser> see?
<Lanser> I don't understand why "fuck" is considered a bad word.
<IdleOne> Well as far as I am concerned this discussion is over. I was willing to talk with you, but you were not patient enough and decided to revert back to your childish behaviour.
<IdleOne> Please don't come back and please stay out of our channels. Have a nice day.
<Lanser> alright IdleOne.
<Lanser> your bans are fucking useless anyway.
<Lanser> I can just use a proxy, and an another nick.
<Lanser> an un-registered nick.
<Lanser> like a random nick.
<Lanser> you can't stop me.
<Lanser> fuck you.
<Lanser> I'll enter #ubuntu when I want.
<Lanser> and talk shit WHEN I WANT.
<Myrtti> if you manage to behave there, then there's no problem
<Lanser> i'll be making little kids do rape, IdleOne
<IdleOne> staff Lanser using his cloak to try and evade bans aka syko
<Lanser> can you stop me
<Myrtti> if you act like an idiot, you'll be banned
<Myrtti> it's really simple as that
<Lanser> ah Myrtti.
<Lanser> that sounds good to me.
<k1l_> Myrtti: actually not
<Myrtti> I will not hold my breath though.
<k1l_> a ban evade is not the solution
<Lanser> IdleOne: are you aware of the fact that all your bans are like a sack of shit?
<Lanser> Myrtti: hold your breath and fucking die.
 * Myrtti sighs at her stupid script not working as planned
<Pici> Myrtti: btw, you're not in ops-team
<IdleOne> yeah, we could use you in there. Also we miss you :)
<Myrtti> good for you
<IdleOne> :/
<Myrtti> seriously though, if he manages to behave on the channel and be a productive member of the community, you won't be none the wiser. If he messes up, he messes up and gets banned.
<Myrtti> bans are meant to stop disruption to the channel, not to punish people. If they manage to not disrupt things, then more power to them and us
<k1l_> Myrtti: we are all through this several times now. the bantracker explodes of his entries with severeal nicks, several user accounts which still are cloaked.
<IdleOne> Myrtti: I agree, but in the middle of trying to get his ban removed he intentionally evaded, this is why I banned him this time.
<Myrtti> IdleOne: as I would have as well
<Myrtti> k1l_: if you want to have the cloaks removed, collect all the evidence into an email and send it to support@freenode.net - it's far more effective and allows staff members to discuss things with equal amount of information shared with each other than just mentioning things in passing here
<Myrtti> mind you, sending that email isn't any guarantee that the cloak will be yanked
<Myrtti> but it leaves the staff with a paper trail in that end too.
<Myrtti> it's far too complicated issue to be decided upon by some lonely newb freenode staffer like me :-P
<bazhang> * [d4rkt1m3s] (40eb6b01@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.235.107.1): nnfwrd2.nearnorthschools.ca/64.235.107.1
<bazhang> is that lanser?
<bazhang> asking for a cloak so he can ban evade in -ot
<bazhang> hi
<d4rkt1m3s> you guys have some sort of problem with me?:
<bazhang> let me check, just a moment please
<d4rkt1m3s> I know exactly what the problem is. It's your IP-based ban.
<bazhang> were you asking about debain/suse/centos?
<d4rkt1m3s> i was
<bazhang> ok, thats you then
<bazhang> let me inquire a bit further, just a moment
<d4rkt1m3s> honestly, I've been watched like a hawk because my IP is associated with a bunch of idiots.
<bazhang> are you in a hurry? I am still checking
<d4rkt1m3s> I'm a little annoyed
<d4rkt1m3s> LjL: you.
<LjL> yes, me
<d4rkt1m3s> you've got a serious problem, man.
<LjL> oh, i probably do, but this channel is not for discussing my problems
<LjL> i'm sure i can find other venues to do that
<d4rkt1m3s> it's affecting me greatly. stop watching me so tightly.
<LjL> d4rkt1m3s, i'm afraid that's not possible. i unbanned you with a clear provision that i'd need to keep a watch on your address, as it had been used by - whether it was you or not - markedly abusive people
<LjL> i additionally warned you a few minutes ago in #ubuntu-offtopic that you should tread very lightly in your current situation
<LjL> instead, you called someone a pedo. banning you again was the only sensible thing i could do.
<LjL> that ban is not going to be removed at the present time.,
<d4rkt1m3s> this guy was advocating tor. I've used the onion. it's not a good place.
 * d4rkt1m3s shudders.
<LjL> oh, so you're a pedo too? (using your own logic)
<d4rkt1m3s> I was merely trying to keep people from seeing things that are VERY uncomfortable.
<d4rkt1m3s> I was there because of idiots like that guy.
<d4rkt1m3s> and I was paranoid for months afterward.
<LjL> well, Tor is a tool that can be used for many purposes, and i'm pretty sure just connecting a Tor client to IRC has extremely little to do with pedophilia or much of anything
<d4rkt1m3s> well, I'm sorry, but I've had bad experiences with tor. VERY BAD experiences.
 * d4rkt1m3s shudders again.
<LjL> in any case, it should be any person's common sense, at least any person who we'd welcome in #ubuntu-offtopic, that you don't just go around accusing people of something like that for no reason. so, from my point of view, you're clearly not prepared to be in the channel.
<d4rkt1m3s> I've been around, man. statistics don't lie.
<d4rkt1m3s> I can admit that what I said was rash, but I really don't like pedophiles.
<LjL> enough
<LjL> you won't be here accusing someone to be a pedophile with no evidence just because they've been using Tor (which you have too)
<LjL> so, this discussion is over unless you have something important to say *about the ban*
<d4rkt1m3s> which i HAD
<d4rkt1m3s> I'm justifying my behaviour. which directly has something to do with the ban.
<d4rkt1m3s> I feel that I should formally apologize to (zipper?) pretty sure that's what his nick was. but watch him, please. anyone who uses tor is bad news, in my opinion.
<LjL> well that particular justification seems too weak for me to entertain it as a valid reason to cancel the ban. if you want, you can come back and discuss this again in a month or so, when perhaps you're more acquainted with freenode's culture.
<d4rkt1m3s> tor is bad news.
<LjL> got you
<d4rkt1m3s> ?
<LjL> well, see you at a later point
<d4rkt1m3s> jerk.
<bazhang> any idea what jboii needs? mouse support?
<genii> bazhang: I figure a few scenarios: The cursor is still on the broken screen and it's not being moved off the edge onto the unbroken screen  or: Whatever broke the screen broke the usb port   or: They need to do the FN key combo on their laptop which makes it only be using the external monitor    ...but I don't currently have time to devote to assisting properly in the channel
<bazhang> genii, he finally said "my usb mouse doesn't work, after entering with "my monitor is broken"
<genii> bazhang: As I understand his original issue, his LCD screen on laptop broke ( perhaps taking usb port with it), and now his usb mouse doesn't seem to either have a cursor or move the cursor on the external monitor he plugged in.
<bazhang> genii, his multiple line posting made that a bit hard to decipher
#ubuntu-ops 2013-10-29
<bazhang> <auzzie> hey gents anyone know where i can get a list of australian professional support partners for ubuntu? looking at buying support
<k1l> i think that would be canonical
<SmallR2002> <LAMBODIE> dawn stone evolves kirlia and snorunt for more tips like this just ask me LAMBODIE da pokemaster and join #LAMBODIE-CLAN server for da hangout of da best pokemon XY clan on da net.
<SmallR2002> third message in an hour
<k1l> SmallR2002: thank you for the report
<k1l> i removed the user from the channel
<k1l> no he spamms in my PM :X
<k1l> SmallR2002: if you get more PMs from him please submit to #freenode since its their area of responibility. thank you for report
<SmallR2002> wasn't sure if this place was big enough to have some freenodians in it
<SmallR2002> pokemon spam... who'd have thought it?
<k1l> i kicked the user and told him to not spam in PMs since several users reported it. now i get spam in PM too. but there is nothing we can do about it in here. that needs to be taken by freenode staff itself so please talk to them in #freenode
<ubottu> kostkon called the ops in #ubuntu (LAMBODIE spammer with an attitude)
<bazhang> <ola2> dont trust ppa trust me
<bazhang> I trust neither
<ikonia> @mark #ubuntu SlickRIck hit and run "cash earning" link spam
<ubottu> The operation succeeded.
<ikonia> hello KatieWhite
<TheQueen> Hey everyone
<LjL> oh no
<Pici> DJones: the plan is to let people skip releases when going to an LTS?
<DJones> For 12.10 only, because 12.10's EOL is a few months after 13.04 goes EOL, in theory you could be using 12.10 without an upgrade path to 13.04, so when I asked a while back, the reply was that the plan was to have an upgrade path from 12.10 to 14.04 for those people
<DJones> I can't remember who it was I spoke with about it at the time and I've changed servers so my old logs have gone
<genii> !time
<ubottu> Information about using and setting your computer's clock on Ubuntu can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuTime - See https://help.ubuntu.com/12.04/serverguide/C/NTP.html for information on usage of the Network Time Protocol (NTP)
<genii> Hm.
<TheQueen> wat the heck happened to this channel?
<Myrtti> what do you mean by that?
<Pici> LjL: ^
<TheQueen> this use to be #ubuntu-offtopic
<Myrtti> nope
<Pici> TheQueen: You're being forwarded here.  I believe  that LjL wanted to speak to you.
 * Pici hands ikonia some aspirin
<ikonia> thankfully I won't be needing it as I'm not picking up that mess
<Pici> the linux one
<genii> Heh
<ubottu> LjL called the ops in #ubuntu (SmellyTaco)
<ubottu> FloodBot2 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join (1786 users, 0 overflows, 1786 limit))
#ubuntu-ops 2013-10-30
<k1l> the same pm spammer like yesterday.
<ubottu> LjL called the ops in #ubuntu (forense)
<IdleOne> You know this would be a lot quicker if you had +o
<LjL> not really, !ops is 4 characters, /mode #ubuntu +b *!*@whatever is like, many, and no, i've been too lazy to set up aliases for banning for the past 3 years
<IdleOne> can't argue with that
<IdleOne> Point to LjL
<knome> oi Myrtti
<Myrtti> oi
<knome> there's a guy threatening with a DDoS attack. isn't that against freenode's policy?
<Myrtti> d'ya want me to wag my finger at him?
<Myrtti> then again what would he ddos? your website?
<knome> Myrtti, that'd be cool.
<knome> i suppose me in irc
<Myrtti> mmmh
<knome> his nick is DJJeff, and he started the threats after i banned him.
<Myrtti> hi DJJeff
<Myrtti> don't be a dick
<DJJeff> he decided to ban me cause I asked how to fix pulse audio
<DJJeff> with skype
<DJJeff> in xubuntu
<DJJeff> and somehow that offended him
<Myrtti> and how is threatening with DDoS supposed to help in getting yourself unbanned?
<Myrtti> surely you understand that it wont
<Myrtti> it just displays malevolence
<DJJeff> I really would love to enjoy my skype in ubuntu
<DJJeff> it did not need to get this way
<knome> i agree with that
<knome> however, you were told to fix your attitude multiple times
<knome> rather than listening what others suggested you (working fixes), you continued telling them to "fix it in the repo" and flaming against microsoft and skype
<knome> that's an unwanted attitude in the channel
<DJJeff> working fixes help maybe 1 or 2 people
<DJJeff> not everyone that uses ubuntu or skype
<knome> and i did give you the last warning; then you went on, and i banned you; then in PM you told me i'm a fag and threatened with DDoS attacks
<knome> how does that sound to you?
<knome> for me, it doesn't sound like you just wanted to fix your skype audio
<DJJeff> I have joined #pulseaudio on freenode a few times they always tell me to join #ubuntu
<DJJeff> and #ubuntu always tell me to join #pulseaudio
<DJJeff> its frustrating
<knome> sure, i understand that, and i am not saying the bug isn't in ubuntu
<knome> nobody told you to join #pulseaudio
<knome> they offered you help, with fixes that should help you
<DJJeff> why not offer the fix to everyone not just me
<knome> i appreciate you want the fix for everybody, but that kind of "do it for me" -attitude isn't constructive.
<knome> i haven't heard of that bug before.
<knome> it might have been just you
<knome> if we keep on getting reports for a single bug, sure, we will try to get them fixed
<DJJeff> may I call your attention to
<DJJeff> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/skype/+bug/1219407
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1219407 in skype (Ubuntu) "Pack Skype for Saucy with PULSE_LATENCY_MSEC=30" [Undecided,New]
<knome> anyway, this discussion is not what this channel is for; unless you want to resolve your ban, i would have to ask you leave this channel as we have a non-idling policy
<DJJeff> oh it only affects 4 people sorry
<knome> DJJeff, if you are not willing to try to resolve your ban, please leave this channel
<DJJeff> if ubuntu does not mean community (helping everyone)
<DJJeff> why use it
<DJJeff> w/e I have better things todo today like clean my room and eat
<Pici> eating is good.
<pmatulis_> i appear to have lost my ops status in #ubuntu-server . can someone assist?
<Pici> pmatulis_: you aren't identified
<pmatulis_> is it the _ in my name?  dunno
<Myrtti> you can identify to your account no matter what your nickname is
<Myrtti> /msg nickserv identify nickname password
<IAmNotThatGuy> ikonia, PM
<ikonia> always
<IAmNotThatGuy> hehe... Waiting for your response ;P
<ikonia> dddtest_ce2fe: hello
<ikonia> !idle > dddtest_ce2fe
<ubottu> dddtest_ce2fe, please see my private message
<Pici> I would have sort of liked for some of these things to have come to normally uneventful IRCC meetings, but I'm glad that they were brought up.
<ikonia> what stuff ?
<Pici> Check our mailing list
<IdleOne> http://tsimpson.ubottu.com/blog/archives/32
<IdleOne> that ^
<Pici> or that
<ikonia> I'd feel a lot more "open" to it if it was from an operator who was active
<tsimpson> I don't see how that make any difference
<ikonia> I do
<ikonia> as it's dealing with it on a personal level day to day
<tsimpson> and I never did that?
<LjL> maybe some operators are no longer so active because they can't stand to see some ugly things happening over and over
<ikonia> there appears to be some valid points, but there are others which seem to be an idealic world where everyone can be talked down rather than the spate of utter idiots trying to waste time
<LjL> besides, it's hardly signed by just timpson
<ikonia> I'm not calling out tsimpson directly,
<tsimpson> ikonia: the point you should extract from the letter is that we should *try*
<ikonia> tsimpson: I don't disagree
<ikonia> but there is the flip side of it where we should not have to waste months of abuse trying with some people and jumping through hoops
<ikonia> it needs a better balance, I fully agree
<IdleOne> I know I am not as active as I used to be, but I think I am still active enough to see the shortcomings this team has been experiencing.
<Pici> I think its perfectly fine that it came from people who aren't as active as they used to be.  I'm actually glad that someone "on the outside" was able to make those sort of observations.
<ikonia> but it's sad to see "an open letter" rather than a discussion, and more so from two people who are not active in the core channels seeing the utter spate of idiots of late
<ikonia> and as opposed to "know one questioning" that's just nonsense
<tsimpson> the letter is to provoke discussion, and it seem to be working
<ikonia> not really, I'm a bit dissapointed in it
<ikonia> I feel some points pretty insulting
<ikonia> such as "no-one questions"
<ikonia> when I've had to justify / explain core issues in detail over a period of months
<ikonia> becuase "it's been questioned"
<tsimpson> I'm not surprised you feel that way, but please try and detach yourself from it personally and view it as a comment on the culture not individual actions
<Pici> ikonia: the people who wrote that aren't IRCCers and are not part of some of the more recent discussions that have happened as a result of operator actions
<ikonia> Pici: they are still listed in the ops team
<ikonia> why are they not active, sharing the load
<ikonia> I don't disagree with some of the points I'm reading
<Pici> ikonia: I said IRC Council, not IRC Op
<ikonia> I don't appreciate some of them either
<ikonia> Pici: this isn't recent
<ikonia> this is been a long time
<IdleOne> I'm sorry but I find your comments here to be very insulting to me personally
<ikonia> I find a lot of things questioned / debated for months
<ikonia> IdleOne: why is that
<Pici> I don't like to read them because they reflect poorly on my job as a council member, but I'm glad that someone had the courage to bring them up.
<ikonia> http://tsimpson.ubottu.com/blog/archives/32
<ikonia> oops
<ikonia> sorry, slippage
<IdleOne> because you seem to be focusing on jussi and tsimpson as the sole signatories. I think my activity in this team is enough that my opinion should carry some weight on the issues raised in the letter.
<ikonia> IdleOne: not at all
<IdleOne> but like tsimpson I am not surprised at your reaction
<ikonia> why - it's an open letter
<ikonia> why have the people writing this letter not spoken to people when this happens
<tsimpson> well I have
<tsimpson> a few time
<tsimpson> +s
<LjL> i have, then i didn't sign this one, but hey
<Pici> tsimpson: you have indeed.
<ikonia> sorry, I just find this poor that there is no discussion within the team/council it's straight to an open letter
<tsimpson> internal discussion hasn't seemed to have gotten us anywhere
<ikonia> what "fear" is there that is being exposed
<Pici> fear?
<ikonia> I've not seen any internal discussion
<tsimpson> a more open discussion within the entire community may, hopefully
<ikonia> we.d like to expose that there.s a fear within the council of the vocal minority.
<Pici> tsimpson has brought it up in this channel a few times. If I were him, I might want to bring it to the mailing list as a next step.
<ikonia> so this letter is stating there is a fear of a vocal minority I assume within the ops team
<LjL> maybe you haven't looked, because seriously, a number of people have been unhappy with many things that have been going on, and they've pointed them out, more or less vigorously, to the people involved and/or ircc members
<ikonia> LjL: I try to look in as often as possible, but I'd be surprised if I've just missed every time this is raised
<ikonia> and I'd expect to be spoke to if someone had a problem with my own actions,
<tsimpson> perhaps you just haven't thought there was a problem
<ikonia> not at all, I know I've spoken to you personally tsimpson about some issues
<tsimpson> I've spoken out a number of times on actions I've seen as too harsh, and you were a part of the discussions on at least some of those times
<ikonia> I'm certainly not remembering any, but I'm not doubting you
<ikonia> do you have suggestions of what you want to see happen ?
<ikonia> (as in how to actually get what you want to see in place)
<tsimpson> I would like to see us all, collectively, to put in a conscious effort when dealing with people
<ikonia> ok - in that case I'd like to see us "all" participate in the channels
<tsimpson> I'm not suggesting some kind of policy, we tried that and it didn't work out
<ikonia> spreading the load so the volume of problem users is spread out more
<tsimpson> we need to actually make the effort to try
<Pici> I think that it would be good to let ourselves be okay with asking for and getting criticisms about how we're handling issues.
<bazhang> of course
<Pici> And not needing to go to an IRCCer about an action that someone else disagreed with.
<bazhang> some context would help
<IdleOne> bazhang: http://tsimpson.ubottu.com/blog/archives/32
<bazhang> otherwise I will think it's all my fault
<bazhang> IdleOne, yes, read it
<bazhang> Goddard, and what else
<Pici> uh, I get pm's every once in a while saying things like "Did you see that guy that IdleOne was dealing with? why did they get banned for 2 weeks/why did we let them off with just a warning/etc.  Can you talk to them about that?"
<Pici> "IdleOne" was just an random op I picked
<IdleOne> I accept all the blame for my mistakes
<bazhang> Goddard, then the death threat guy, any others?
<Pici> I'm not going to point to specific examples.
<tonyyarusso> So, having been on hiatus for a while, an observation:  We tend to cycle between extremes, and have a hard time finding the appropriate middle.  The reason many people tend to go to the authoritative extreme is because the last round of softer approaches was ridiculously so, and did literally involve coddling known trolls for months on end, and that's both maddening and exhausting.  So, in urging people to take the softer approach ...
<bazhang> so if we've been talked to, or not has no relation to being one of the overly harsh ops
<tonyyarusso> ... (which I think is reasonable), you first have to convince them that you mean doing so within sane limitations - that you're actually asking for people to have the 60-second sort of conversations with disruptive users, not the 6-month battles.
<tsimpson> when I was a IRCC member we tried to solve some of these issues by introducing policies, a whole bunch of them. I thought it was the right way to go at the time, but I've now come to the conclusion that we don't need more rules  we just need to be more thoughtful about how we choose to enforce them
<Pici> tsimpson: +10
<DJones> Policies are ok to a point, but at the end of the day, it comes down to common sense
<bazhang> is ldunn even part of Ubuntu project any longer?
<IdleOne> enough that he cared to sign the letter
<DJones> I don't think it matters who has signed that email or what their involvement is
<bazhang> that's not really what I was getting at
<bazhang> perhaps I should clarify
<DJones> If somebody who was on the banned from UBuntu channels due past abuse had signed it, it should still be taken taken seriously (not to say tsimpson should be on the permaban list :) )
<tsimpson> if a freenode staffer agrees with it, I don't see a problem in letting them sign it
<bazhang> how would they know about it, and none of the rest of us were approached to sign it
<Pici> I don't think it really matters
<Pici> personally
<tsimpson> bazhang: some people were
<DJones> bazhang: Is somebody like HFSPlus had sent a similar email to the mailing list, it should still be looked at and considered on a current basis
<IdleOne> Doesn't matter if the letter was sent anonymously. The point is not who signed or who didn't. The point is there is what seems to be a culture of shoot first. This is not what this community was built on and we need to get back to the fundamentals of what we were built on.
<DJones> That was what I was trying to say
<bazhang> tsimpson, I was not, leading me to believe I am the one under discussion, even though you have *never* approached me/Pm'd /etc the entire time I have been an operator, stretching back nearly 6 some years now
<IdleOne> If anyone feels this letter is directed at them personally, maybe it is because they see some of the issues raised in the letter in themselves.
<tsimpson> I made it clear in the letter that it's not about any specific person
<bazhang> IdleOne, I dont feel that for a second
<Pici> then don't worry about it.
<IdleOne> ^
<bazhang> the days of Seveas, was more of a total wild west approach
<Pici> yee haw
<bazhang> and thats the roots
<IdleOne> and that was changed
<bazhang> getting back to the roots seems like going back in time to the days of that
<tsimpson> I didn't say we should go back to anything
<bazhang> "a culture of shoot first"
<tsimpson> we have just become more and more rigid in enforcing rules by taking authoritative action
<DJones> As ops, at times, we do need to step back, give a question a minute or two to discern the intent before removing what we think is a troll
<bazhang> yep
<DJones> Spam/deliberate trolling excepted
<bazhang> if it's someone like llckfan who does it network wide, it's an easy call
<Pici> Just because someone is calling someone else a troll in the channel, doesn't mean its really the case.
<Pici> I've seen a lot of that lately.
<Pici> Like for new users asking a lot of questions.
<DJones> Thats not a nick I recognise, so network wide issues are diffulties
<bazhang> troll seems to have been twisted to "someone I dont like"
<LjL> trolling *is* deliberate. if we think someone is a troll but after pondering an additional 10 seconds, we start suspecting maybe there's possibly a non-deliberate-trolling reason for what they're doing, then just kicking them out makes no sense. on the *other* hand, it *also* makes no sense to have to follow 12 policies and give someone 12 chances before leaving them out for a long time, when it *is* indeed clear they're a troll. tonyyarusso, you see,
<LjL> working in extremes is the opposite of using common sense - sometimes you're too soft, sometimes you're too harsh, but both times you're being extreme
<ikonia> LjL: thats the right balance, but it's hard and a lot of what goes on is harder to see unless you actually ask
<ikonia> the ammount of times I ask politly "hey, could you please tone down the language" in ubuntu to try to be human and polite rather than fire a bot and then get a pm saying "fuck you" - at that point, what's the point
<ikonia> but that pm and "fuck you" response isn't seen as you try to do it politely and discreetly
<ikonia> then if you do it in the channel, you end up making a drama
<ikonia> then if you forward them to ops instead of doing it in the channel, it becomes agressive
<ikonia> so to minimise it if you send a clear direct message in channel - it's seen a authorative and that's bad
<tsimpson> then you continue to talk to them in private, if things get worse set a +q etc
<tsimpson> my point being, you don't have to reach straight for the ban-cannon
<tsimpson> sometimes it's needed, sometimes not
<Pici> And if one does end up setting a ban, putting a few words on the tracker is immensely helpful.
<ikonia> this is why I'm raising if people where more active they would see this more
<Pici> tsimpson: also, THANK YOU for bringing up the "an operator can only remove their own bans" thing.
<Pici> I've mentioned it a bunch of a times, but no one listens
<ikonia> it's easy to sit while not participating and say "we should be better" but unless your activly participating you don't see a lot of the first time abuse that is thrown at you
<tsimpson> Pici: right, it's an old custom of ours, and it's time it went away
<ikonia> Pici: that was put to bed ages ago, anyone can remove anyone elses bans ? why is that being questioned
<Pici> ikonia: because some people still say that here.
<ikonia> it went away a long time ago, I've not seen anyone use that for a long time
<ikonia> I've not seen it at all
<LjL> Pici, well, if A is personally not comfortable with removing B's bans, i think that's their right. of course, if other ops C, D and E somehow come to the conclusion that they're bound by that, too... that's no good
<tsimpson> really, you've never seen this channel be silent when someone comes in while an op is pinged in -team?
<Pici> LjL: agreed.
<tsimpson> really?
<ikonia> tsimpson: no, not unless that op knows the history and they would rather they dealt with it
<ikonia> which I don't see as a bad thing
<tsimpson> that's what the bantracker is for, so you can document that history
<ikonia> that's just idealistic
<tsimpson> not if we actually use it
<LjL> i find it very practical
<ikonia> if someone knows the history it makes sense for them to be involved/discussed
<Pici> For problem users, it makes more sense really.
<tsimpson> ikonia: right, but when they aren't around and this channel remains silent because no one dares deal with another's ban does not make sense to me
<ikonia> I've never seen that at all
<tsimpson> I have
<ikonia> I've not seen "Im not touching that, it's $A's ban"
<LjL> the bantracker is a good, useful thing, and personally i'm VERY thankful to tsimpson in particular for working on it, and i've got to say, i honestly find it out of place to "accuse" him of not being around yet signing the open letter, because, he was around for a long time, he's still around behind the scenes, he works on things that matter, and he observes people's behaviors. what more could you ask for?
<tsimpson> ikonia: no, it's a silent thing
<ikonia> LjL: I'm thankful for him also, the tools are superb, but that doesn't mean not being active in the channel is not valid or being aware of what's going on
<Pici> So.. you agree?
<ikonia> agree with what
<Pici> nm
 * LjL throws some double negations at Pici
<ikonia> sorry, I worded that poor
<DJones> It is a silent thing, there are times when I've seen a known problematic user join -ops to discuss issues that I've not know the background to, so I've not been prepared to get involved, I'm sure I'm not the only person who's done that
<ikonia> I meant because he's working on the tool doesn't mean he's active in the channels, and therefore not seeing/getting the number of issues that have been around recently.
<tsimpson> the only reason I'm less active is because I really don't like the culture that has grown up in the IRC team
<bazhang> I never touch -offtopic bans, as I dont have access there.
<tsimpson> but I do watch and I do notice
<LjL> not being active in the channels doesn't necessarily mean he's not looking at them, either
<LjL> that's an assumption you're making
<ikonia> LjL: no, of cours enot
<ikonia> LjL: I'm not making any assumption
<ikonia> but I am seeing him not deal with the users
<ikonia> maybe set an example
<Pici> so?
<ikonia> but joinin gthe channel, participating in the channel and showing how to handle users pm;ing you saying I'll kill you muther you fucker
<ikonia> while you calmly try to catalyise
<ikonia> lead by example,
<bazhang> tsimpson, you seem to be suggesting that you yourself are not part of all this
<Pici> Can we please stop sticking it on tsimpson.
<LjL> Pici: do you mean i should remove that "kick me" sticker too? :(
<ikonia> I'm not the same goes for jussi too
<tsimpson> bazhang: no I'm not, I even acknowledged fault in the letter
<Pici> ikonia: What about IdleOne?
<ikonia> tsimpson: I'm genuinly sorry if it comes across as prodding at you, that's not the actual intent, I agree with a lot of what you are saying in the letter, but I don't agree with part of it and I feel you don't see parts of it by not participating in the hcannel
<bazhang> tsimpson, rather than step back as the culture repulses/sickens/saddens you , take a more active role to directly criticize our actions, perhaps in the -team channel
<tsimpson> you have to remember that I've actually been around a long time, and I have a good experience in what you're saying
<tsimpson> I've received horrible message, death threats, all that
<ikonia> I don't think you do
<ikonia> as it's got worse
<tsimpson> why do you not think I do?
<tsimpson> what is your rational?
<LjL> it's hardly got worse. we had the GNAA doing daily attacks on #ubuntu. we don't now. we have odd trolls.
<bazhang> yes, sure, as have most of us here. you were stdin for a long time
<tsimpson> bazhang: I am, that's what the letter is
<Pici> Maybe its gotten easier for people to research people's names and addresses, but the same trolls existed way back when
<ikonia> I'm happy to say I'll make more of an effort, but I also expect the same in reverse to not have to waste time or jump thorugh 200 hoops
<ikonia> the common sense approach is good - but it needs to be applied in all ways
<ikonia> eg: if someone joins kubuntu and ubuntu shouting "fuck you" and then joins #xubuntu - we don't wait for it to happen there becuase of "process"
<ikonia> we mute them and speak to them
<Pici> I think thats fine.
<ikonia> we apply common sense in both directions
<ikonia> I'm happy to make more of an effort in that spirit
<ikonia> if you govern by common sense and evaluate peoples intent, I'm all up for that
<LjL> ikonia: honestly, that's part of the reason i didn't sign this letter, although i was approached about it (the other reason being sheer laziness at making myself heard back): it sounded too "slanted" towards the more-cautious approach, while on the other hand, it has to go both ways, more caution when needed (and a cautionary approach by default is good, because we're all liable to thiking the worst in people, when we don't have had time to think about it),
<LjL> but less silly "process" when that makes no sense.
<ikonia> LjL: thats it,
<ikonia> I'm all for parts of the letter, disagree with parts of it
<ikonia> but I don't want to spend 3 weeks dealing with a user and then 3 weeks of debating with the council when the problem is clear
<ikonia> but at the same time, give users who slip up a bit more width
<LjL> so by all means, if it's painfully clear someone should be banned immediately, and shouldn't come back for a while - i say ban them immediately and don't let them come back. but, a bantracker entry is due, a long comment with explanation perhaps (doesn't have to be done immediately), things like that. but i'm making trivial examples here... honestly, what i too often see is lack of a common-sense, no-nonsense but respectful-of-people approach
<ikonia> if the intent is common sense and judge the persons intent and ability to function in the channel, I'm all up for it
<ikonia> LjL: again it's a two way stree
<tonyyarusso> Honestly, how involved people have been lately doesn't really matter here.  I've been mostly away for quite some time, and the letter sounds exactly like the same discussions we had two or three times in past years when I was more active - the arguments have been valid on a rather ongoing, cyclical basis - we're just back at this stage of the cycle again.
<ikonia> street
<Pici> At least we're consistant...
<ikonia> LjL: I also expect the same polite / respect as the person I'm talking to
<bazhang> bad spelers
<tsimpson> ikonia: maybe you shouldn't expect that, even if you want it
<ikonia> why ?
<ikonia> the guidlines of all the channels say this
<ikonia> why should someone be excused it, more so if they are trying to discuss why they should be allowed to use the channel again
<tsimpson> obviously there's a limit, but I don't think it's reasonable to expect everyone who happens to join #ubuntu to embrace the code of conduct and guidelines automatically
<ikonia> tsimpson: not at all
<ikonia> tsimpson: people don't know / aren't aware
<ikonia> but I don't expect, "fuck off natzi" when asked not to
<tsimpson> so it's reasonable to expect some hostility, some rudeness, some disrespect
<LjL> oh i think you should expect manners (at least after you have informed the person about etiquette and everything). but you should understand if someone is a bit "sensitive" after maybe they've been mistreated, or *feel* like they've been mistreated anyway, or have been picked on by ops and/or users in a "gang-up" fashion
<Pici> And people get frustrated when they're called out for things, remember that many of them are just trying to get their Ubuntu issue fixed.
<ikonia> and then I do'nt want 20 minutes of debate
<tsimpson> people react like that, it's the internet age where people can (apparently) say anything they like with no consequences...
<tsimpson> try, please
<ikonia> Pici: exactly and if they see people trying to help, that's fine, but I don't think I should be talked to like an idiot/dirt when trying to help, no matter how upset they are
<ikonia> they can't though
<tsimpson> but I do accept there is a limit, and it's your personal limit
<ikonia> there are consiquences
<Pici> yes, there is a limit to everything.
<ikonia> and the sooner they grasp that saying "fuck you" to a polite request the sooner they will either a.) change b.) not use the hcannel
<Pici> agreed.
<Pici> hopefully.
<ikonia> to be honest, I don't care either way
<ikonia> I don't use the channels to see that sort of langauge attitude
<tsimpson> you should
<ikonia> not at all
<ikonia> it's not my position to change their view on things
<tsimpson> you should care to bring people into the community where you can
<ikonia> help them, guide them, sure
<ikonia> why ?
<ikonia> I do'nt care if they are part of the community or not
<tsimpson> if you don't care, then what's the motivation?
<ikonia> to help people,
<ikonia> I'm not trying to push people to use ubuntu or join the community
<ikonia> that's up to them if they like it and want to use it and feel comfortable with what it brings/expects
<tsimpson> it's not pushing them for some kind of membership, each channel is its own community
<ikonia> right, and I'll help them be part of any channel I'm in
<ikonia> but I don't care if they don't want to
<ikonia> and that's not just ubuntu
<ikonia> that's any channel I'm in
<Pici> #ubuntu should be a welcoming place, but if someone doesn't want to like Ubuntu for whatever reason, I don't think that we can really be expected to have to convince them otherwise.
<ikonia> right,
<Pici> Educate: yes, convince: no.
<ikonia> I've often said "don't use ubuntu then"
<tsimpson> well you obviously can't force someone to be a part of a community, and if they just aren't interested that's fine
<ikonia> because it's not right for them
<tsimpson> but, as role models and mentors for the community, we should be willing to at least try
<ikonia> the same for the channel
<ikonia> try "X" because this channel isn't what you need
<tsimpson> explain to them why we have the rules we have, what the ethos is a bout
<tsimpson> if they don't care about that, it's up to them
<ikonia> tsimpson: it's pretty hard to say that without smirking though
<ikonia> when the company running ubuntu doesn't really play by the same ethos
<LjL> yeah well...
<tsimpson> good thing we aren't the Canonical community then
<LjL> tsimpson: how, we're not? i was sure there had been a memo about that!
<ikonia> I'm not suggesting that, but a community the helps each other - apart from when it goes up to the top level seems pretty hard
<ikonia> to be honest, I raised this a few weeks ago in the secret channel
<ikonia> I looked at the fedora community / channel and it's much better
<ikonia> yet the ops / community are much more harsh/direct with people
<ikonia> they focus on the goals of the channel and don't allow it to slip
<ikonia> and it flows and works really well for getting users support
<tsimpson> that's how they choose express their community, it's not the way we want to
<ikonia> sorry who are you speaking for
<ikonia> who is "we"
<IdleOne> the silent majority who is to afraid or tired of this same old discussion
<tsimpson> the Ubuntu community at large
<IdleOne> too*
<ikonia> tsimpson: who says ?
<tsimpson> says the code of conduct, says the IRC guidelines
<ikonia> tsimpson: really ?
<IdleOne> says the Ubuntu philosophy
<tsimpson> says the entire ethos of Ubuntu
<ikonia> sorry no it doesn't
<tsimpson> what you described is not "showing humanity towards others"
<ikonia> not it's not
<Pici> not?
<ikonia> it's being direct and to the point to share information clearly and focused
 * LjL throws some more negatives at Pici in case he's out
<ikonia> my fault, typo
<tsimpson> well it's the very core of the Ubuntu philosophy
<ikonia> I think we need to pause for a moment to help tomoks
<ikonia> hi tomoks
<ikonia> tomoks: are you there ?
<tsimpson> it doesn't look like they're active right now
<LjL> maybe we can kick them out on the grounds our process, despite their presence probably not causing any actual issue to us, just so they will be annoyed at us
<LjL> oh, i'm way slow
<ikonia> not at all
<ikonia> change the process
 * LjL rolls eyes
<tsimpson> rigid enforcement of the rules
<IdleOne> SmallR2002 has been here the entire time without being a problem.
<ikonia> right, so then lets change that rule than
<ikonia> the
<LjL> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Ignore_all_rules
<ikonia> then
<tsimpson> specific rules aren't the problem, is how we choose to enforce them
<ikonia> ok - how do you enforce that then
<ikonia> eg: do nothing
<ikonia> in that case whats the point of having it
<ikonia> rather than put a polite message and pm to the user
<tsimpson> I'm not talking about a specific rule, and I'm not going to be drawn into a debate about a specific rule
<ikonia> which is what I did, remove him, and send him a message to let him know why he was removed
<tsimpson> I'm speaking in general
<LjL> enforce it when you have a reason to suspect the user are being malicious or whatever, and not enforce it if it's painfully clear they aren't?
<ikonia> no, you've just pulled me up on being rigid
<ikonia> ok, so the rule is "no idling if unless your intent is bad"
<tsimpson> I do think you rigidly enforce the rules, and you even admired that you like that style of enforcement
<tsimpson> I'm not talking about a specific rule, and I'm not going to be drawn into a debate about a specific rule
<LjL> ikonia: no
<ikonia> tsimpson: I dont admire that at all
<tsimpson> ikonia: you said so about the fedora community
<ikonia> no I didn't
<ikonia> I said that I'd seen it working better - and suggested we looked at it
<Pici> I thought thats what you said too, but maybe I misunderstood.
<ikonia> I didn't say adopt it, or I admired it
<ikonia> I had a reasonable size discusison in -ops-team about it and raised the negative parts of it to
<tsimpson> you said they are more strict/harsh, and don't let the channel slip
<tsimpson> you said it's "much better"
<ikonia> yes
<ikonia> the channel follows much better
<tsimpson> so you like that style of enforcement?
<LjL> ikonia, do you think http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Ignore_all_rules means i'm allowed or even encouraged to edit that very page to make it say "I LIKE HAMSTERS A LOT!!!!!!!!!!!!"?
<ikonia> follows....flows
<ikonia> tsimpson: no, I think it has pros/cons
<tsimpson> if you think it's better I assume you like it more than what I'm suggesting
<ikonia> LjL: apologies don't follow what you're trying to say
<tsimpson> or even what we have now
<ikonia> the channel is certaily working better than ubuntu in terms of problem resolution and feeding things up stream - which is why I raised it after mentioning the canonical issue
<ikonia> but as I said in the earlier discussion it has pros and cons, and we perhaps see what we can take from it (I believe I was looking at PPA problems at the time
<tsimpson> well I think that style is not the direction we should be heading in
<LjL> ikonia: it was a question. the right answer is "no", not in most circumstances anyway. having a rule and sometimes breaking it doesn't mean the rule is actually different from what it is - it just means it's being broken, and there may or may not have been a good reason for breaking it. spirit of the law vs letter of the law, if you like legal terms. if you decide NOT to kick out someone who's idling here because they aren't harming anybody, you are neither
<LjL> changing nor, in this specific case, even violating the rule - you're merely ignoring the rule in this specific instance *because your common sense tells you to*
<LjL> that's what common sense is all about
<ikonia> LjL: ok, I see what you mean
<LjL> perhaps the spirit of the rule could be said in an even better way : Use your common sense over anything else   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Ignoring_all_rules_%E2%80%93_a_beginner%27s_guide
<ikonia> again though, I dind't see the problem in this example of removing the user with a polite message and sending him a pm to explain he's welcome back when he's active
<tsimpson> but do you see a problem with not doing it?
<LjL> well i see a problem. being kicked feels bad to many people, not matter what the reason. it makes you feel ousted, or unwanted. so if, all other things being equal, you can choose between kicking and not kicking... why kick? *this* is the sort of problematic behavior i too often see (especially in #ubuntu-offtopic, where i'm most active these days)
<ikonia> tsimpson: yes, I do see a problem with it, as people have put in place a no idle policy despite it being argued against many times
<LjL> also, when in #ubuntu-offtopic, someone "new" comes up with some idea that seems silly or inane or badly thought out to us, and one or several people gang up on them, questioning their every word, that has the same chilling effect
<ikonia> so they are free to come up with ideas and state them publicly but others are not free to question them
<tsimpson> I don't think that, in general, just because we have a policy means we have to enforce it 100% of the time
<ikonia> again it's two way
<ikonia> so then lets remove it
<ikonia> and just say "common sense"
<ikonia> in which case I'd be happy to let him stay
<ikonia> I don't personally care who sits in the channel
<tsimpson> it's not a binary choice to have a policy and enforce it 100% of the time or not have the policy at all
<LjL> ikonia, once again i'll give you the wikipedia example and note how they have an "Ignore all rules" policy yet that's not the *only* policy they have - actually, they have a very large number. is that contradictory? maybe, but meanwhile Wikipedia is a huge sucess.
<ikonia> it is when it's been argued MANY times and keeps coming back to "yes, that is the policy"
<LjL> (i'm making a note here)
* IdleOne changed the topic of #ubuntu-ops to: Welcome to the home of the Ubuntu IRC Team operators | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcTeam | This channel is for operator/abuse questions in the IRC Team domain only | LoCo channel discussion/issues to #ubuntu-irc | Please exit the channel once your issue is dealt with. | We reserve the right to remove idlers Not all the time.| Channel is logged at irclogs.ubuntu.com
<ikonia> that's not really helpful is it
<LjL> yeah well "reserve the right" already covers that in fact
<IdleOne> Rule has been changed. I skipped the 6 months of discussions and process and just did it.
<ikonia> and at that point, I'm done
<ikonia> no point having a discussion if it's just mess around time
<tsimpson> I'm not messing around, I'm having a serious discussion with you
<ikonia> tsimpson: I know, and I felt it valid
<IdleOne> Like LjL just said  "reserve the right" covers the part where it is not a mandatory rule that must be enforced at all times.
<tsimpson> I think we can put IdleOne's action there down to frustration
* IdleOne changed the topic of #ubuntu-ops to: Welcome to the home of the Ubuntu IRC Team operators | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcTeam | This channel is for operator/abuse questions in the IRC Team domain only | LoCo channel discussion/issues to #ubuntu-irc | Please exit the channel once your issue is dealt with. | We reserve the right to remove idlers | Channel is logged at irclogs.ubuntu.com
<IdleOne> frustration is part of it.
<ubottu> xangua called the ops in #ubuntu (callmekeemz)
<LjL> tsimpson: no, i think it was a move to make a valid point and if we just put every bold move someone makes down to "frustration" or their "bad temper" or whatever... well, i've been there and been treated like a child enough times
<DJones> The no-idle policy has been in for a number years, before I applied for ops in #ubuntu, it affected me, I used to idle here on the basis that it was suggested by ops at the time that I was appointed op in a loco channel that it was a good way of learning, however certain ops asked me to not idle because of confidentiality even though the channel was logged & the info was available within the hour
<ikonia> so then why have the policy
<tsimpson> LjL: oh, I think it's a valid point, just the act of changing the topic to state the point was motivated out of frustration (opinion)
<ikonia> why even bother just let the ops govern with common sense
<LjL> DJones: as a matter of fact, the channel is logged *because* that was felt to be an "acceptable compromise" between closing it down completely to outsiders and having it completely open - at the time, at least
<LjL> ikonia: i answered that above by making a comparison with Wikipedia. what's your thought about that?
<tsimpson> ikonia: the policies are a guide for that common sense
<LjL> ikonia: you basically seem to be saying, either have rules, or have common sense; can't have both
<ikonia> LjL: I don't fully get it to be honest,
<LjL> ikonia: that leaves me perplexed
<tsimpson> we have a concessions around which we base our choices
<ikonia> tsimpson: why did you not have this attitude when you where on the council
<tsimpson> *consensus
<ikonia> what's changed it ?
<tsimpson> time/experience
<tsimpson> and when I was in the council, it was newly reformed
<ikonia> ok, so looking back being driven by policy was perhaps not the best method
<tsimpson> ikonia: I already said that
<ikonia> thats very cool, and big of you
<LjL> ikonia, just to be clear on this, are you saying that we can either have policies/rules, or we can use common sense, but we can't do both?
<ikonia> LjL: not at all
<ikonia> but the no-idle one has come up time and time again
<bazhang> this feels like a gang up on ikonia
<tsimpson> <tsimpson> when I was a IRCC member we tried to solve some of these issues by introducing policies, a whole bunch of them. I thought it was the right way to go at the time, but I've now come to the conclusion that we don't need more rules  we just need to be more thoughtful about how we choose to enforce them
<ikonia> and keeps being pushed that it sould be forced to keep clear for channel issues
<ikonia> (which we are abusing with this discussion possibly)
<ikonia> if I wanted to "apply common sense" I'd be doing things like pre-emptive bans and the like
<LjL> we really aren't
<LjL> well, that's the problem i think - we have a very, very different definition of common sense. i think i'll go back to writing my toy bot
<ikonia> as that is common sense,
<tsimpson> bazhang: I can see why it looks like that, but ikonia is the one disagreeing with my points so that's why I'm debating it with him
<ikonia> I don't feel I'm being ganged up on, I'm on a different view point on some aspets, so got to discuss it
<DJones> LjL: -ops has been logged for a long time prior to that, if somebody had explained it as you just did at the time I was asked to leave, the op who suggested I join wouldn't have felt it necessary to apologise for asking me join and then being concerned about me getting annoyed about having been effectively kicked out
<ikonia> LjL: we don't, I've just got burnt too many times for using it and not "following policy"
<bazhang> tsimpson, I think the multiple others joining in is what makes it feel that way
<ikonia> LjL: I'd like to see it just apply common sense
<ikonia> LjL: however I get pushed back in my face on a regular occasion "we have to follow the policy/process"
<ikonia> so I stick to the policy
<tsimpson> bazhang: you can't blame them for expressing their opinions in the debate, and it seems like the majority of people participating take a difference stance to ikonia
<bazhang> tsimpson, so I should join in ?
<ikonia> LjL: I don't believe we differ on common sense, I just stick the agreed policies so it doens't get thrown back at me any more
<ikonia> (beyond this discussion obviously)
<tsimpson> bazhang: absolutely
<DJones> LjL: It didn't bother me, I'm here now, so hopefully that shows that the community is more important
<tsimpson> please do
<tsimpson> ikonia: maybe it's not beyond this discussion, if you feel that you've been forced to enforce rules when common sense would disagree
<LjL> ikonia: well i really hate the "we have to follow the process" mentality, except, however, that process *is* useful as a sort of "checklist" to make sure you aren't really missing something, like a possible reason why someone might not actually be malicious, but in good faith. i think, to be honest, the issue some here have seen and are complaining about is that the process is not followed in cases when following it seemed warranted by their common sense.
<LjL> in other words, people being "man-handled" without their seeming to deserve it.
<ikonia> tsimpson: the ammount of times I'd have done things different but couldn't because I know / have been told "well, that's not the policy"
<ikonia> LjL: I don't disagree, a guidlines, a marker, but it's used against the team so often, it's easier to stick to it so there is no room for contention
<LjL> ikonia, i know how that is... trolls keep asking you "which rule am i breaking? tell me!" etc, but we must NOT fall into that trap
<ikonia> LjL: actually more exteme examples, but yes, you get th epoint
<ikonia> so that's why if the policy is agreed on - I stick to it
<ikonia> even the ones I don't agree with
<ikonia> as I'll argue it at decision time, if I lose, I'll stick to it
<ikonia> as it's what the team agreed on
<k1l> imho we are wasting alot of empathy for absolut trolls, where its clear form the start where that is going.
<ikonia> k1l: %500000
<LjL> ikonia: but then what happens when someone is actually not breaking any policy, when you read it literally, but it's still pretty clear (according to any op's common sense) their behavior is being obnoxious? you can't act because the process won't allow that?
<LjL> that just won't cut it
<ikonia> but that's to the detriment of the ones that are not a problem and perhaps get treated too harsh
<tsimpson> k1l: I don't think so, there are times when someone is clearly trolling and no one is suggesting that we try and talk them out of it
<k1l> and afterwards there is not enough patience to deal the ones who could be brought to "the right path"
<ikonia> LjL: I either a.) act and then take weeks of dicussion / debate / pointless arguing about you didn't give me 10 warnings b.) do nothing - which is stupid
<tsimpson> k1l: I don't like the excuse of "there are trolls out there, therefore everyone is a troll"
<k1l> tsimpson: that is not what i want to say
<tsimpson> k1l: I know, but it's the flash assumption that someone is a troll that's part of the issue
<k1l> i just think we are doing effort where no effort should be done.
<tsimpson> there are cases where we know someone is just being a troll, and we can deal with them swiftly
<LjL> tsimpson, honestly i take a bit of a different stance about that situation. to me, the marker line is "are they doing it in good faith?" (there are many mental tests to do about that - maybe they're just acting out of frustration? maybe they don't know the rules? maybe they don't understand we're not joking around?) - but when i *do* come to the conclusion they're acting in bad faith, i don't really think it's my duty to talk them out of it, although of
<LjL> course, if it seems warranted, i'll do it
<tsimpson> LjL: I didn't say we should be talking trolls out of it, the opposite in fact
<LjL> tsimpson: okay i might have misread
<LjL> oh, yeah i think i have
<tsimpson> don't let the policy stop you from protecting the channel, but also don't let it force you to take action when you can (realistically) avoid it
<LjL> agreed
<k1l> its a fact that some people (again, i am not saying all of them are that way) just make trouble to make trouble. i dont know why they do this but i dont think we should put effort in that. but there are people who maybe got into emotions or its just some misunderstanding and that lead to an issue which brings the irc team on the screen. in that case we need alot effort to handle the situation that i the best case no further action is needed.
<ikonia> tsimpson: that's the dream...but we are so far away from that at the moment and have been for a long time, it's very hard to come back from
<ikonia> sadly - and not a pop at you, but a big part of that stems from the previous council
<tsimpson> yes, it's hard
<ikonia> (certainly for me)
<tsimpson> it's really not an easy task
<tsimpson> but we should not let that stop us from trying
<ikonia> no, and again, that isn't a pop at you, that's just partly trying to explain
<tsimpson> we have got to a point where we don't really try any more, and it's understandable
<ikonia> I've said I'm happy to put in a push, as long as it's both ways common sense, and supported by the council
<tsimpson> we joke when people apply to become ops, "what you *want* to be an op?"
<tsimpson> because it's a really hard job
<tsimpson> it's taxing and it can really get you down sometimes
<tsimpson> my hope when writing the letter wasn't to get some kind of rule change, but to just (re)light a fire under us all
<tsimpson> to get back the passion we had when we first came to the IRC team
<LjL> wait so that wasn't just my chair being warm? crap
<ikonia> language LjL
<Pricey> !language
<ikonia> (I am only joking)
<ubottu> Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family-friendly, polite, and professional.
<k1l> tsimpson: yes, sometimes you need a reminder, when you fall into automatisms
<DJones> LjL: Chair? Remember its coming up to Bonfire night in the uk, thats not just the chair thats on fire :)
<ikonia> do you think it's worth actually having / setting a short team meeting to discuss this and get everyone on the same page as much as possible
<LjL> oh i don't find it even remotely likely that such a meeting would be short
<ikonia> rather than an adhoc discussion
<ikonia> we live in hope
<ikonia> or maybe just a message from the council after they have had a bit of time to think about it
<tsimpson> it should be an ongoing discussion
<tsimpson> we should be less afraid to question other operators actions
<tsimpson> not necessarily integrate them, just ask questions
<AlanBell> evening all
<Pricey> I'm barely through the backlog but this line concerns me: 19:05:07 <+ikonia> why are they not active, sharing the load
<DJones> Pici: Chaning the topic a bit, going back to yesterdays query about 12.10 upgrades, http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2013/03/19/changes-in-ubuntu-releases-decided-by-the-ubuntu-technical-board/ "The plan here is to change that, so that a user of Ubuntu 12.10 could directly update to Ubuntu 13.10 or 14.04 LTS."
<Pricey> ikonia: Is there too much load and not enough ops?
<ikonia> Pricey: it's hard to guage
<Pricey> ikonia: I want an exact figure ;)
<ikonia> Pricey: the wording wasn't great, I was trying to make a point that I wasn't happy being critiqued from an ivory tower by people who are ops but do'nt actually provide support/op-support in the channels they are in
<Unit193> Main channels seem to have more, secondary don't always seem to have neough, but that may just be what I see.
<ikonia> Pricey: in terms of actual work load, it of course varies, possible a few extra hands wouldn't help
<LjL> good thing then we basically have a policy of bringing new ops in at every release regardless of anything! i'm relieved
<ikonia> LjL: that is another "policy" though
<ikonia> it drives me around the bend
<ikonia> rather than common sense pull in as needed
<ikonia> we've pulled in people who haven't done anything in the channel
<ikonia> just for the sake of it
<Pricey> ikonia: Understood. I was just wondering if there were perhaps some subtext. Ubuntu's always been a meritocracy afaik, the people who do the work make the decisions.
<ikonia> Pricey: it's far from that
<k1l> what about we change the issue-handling in this channel here? like saying (if possible) another op handles the user who comes in here?
<ikonia> k1l: that's been tried before and didn't really work out well
<ikonia> admitidly only for a short time
<tsimpson> isn't it a prerequisite of becoming a channel op that we pool from the active users of the channel?
<k1l> because i think that is a hard time for both sides. the user who got kicked/banned and the op who should stay calm, too.
<ikonia> no
<AlanBell> recruitment isn't the issue though, is it?
<ikonia> AlanBell: not really - that's my fault for using it as an example of process
<AlanBell> we moved to a cadence in line with release cycles partly so that IRC engages a bit more with the wider Ubuntu development cycle, I don't think that is a bad thing, but we could change it
<LjL> ikonia: (i was being slightly sarcastic about the goodness of that policy, in case that wasn't clear)
<ikonia> AlanBell: I wouldn't concern yourself with it, it's my fault for pulling it up as a process "I" don't like
<ikonia> LjL: I missed it a little
<AlanBell> part of the reason we started doing it on a regular basis was that people applied to join the teams and were left hanging indefinitely
<ikonia> AlanBell: pros/cons to it, as you say it's not the real issue being discussed, it was my bad reference
<AlanBell> ok
<tsimpson> still they should be active in the channel to actually be accepted, I think
<ikonia> tsimpson: that is discussed, I know I've commented on "non-active" users at review time
<ikonia> I was perhaps being a little harsh on it as a process as "I" personally don't like it
<tsimpson> either way, new ops won't help when they are taught (by example) bad habits
<LjL> you shouldn't teach a new dog old tricks?
<tsimpson> only the really good ones
<genii> Holy crap. A lot of backscroll to read!
<AlanBell> "The IRC Council, as a relatively new council" - 2 years!
<Pricey> AlanBell: 2?
<AlanBell> yeah, we are about to expire
<AlanBell> I was going to send a mail to the list announcing an election, but I will now re-word it a bit so it doesn't look like it was caused by the open letter :)
<genii> I just finished catching up now. There are many good points in the letter, that we tend to fall into a groove of writing some users off instead of actually engaging them in dialogue and seeing if the situation can be resolved in this way first. As for ops removing other ops bans.. I usually hesitate to do this when the user is in -ops, mostly because I have this feeling ( perhaps irrational) that it is "their" ban.
<tsimpson> it's a feeling may of us have, and it's something we should try and shake off
<LjL> tsimpson, for next time, since AlanBell says this open letter comes as a bit of a surprise, maybe you should first send an open letter informing the team that you intent to send an open letter to the team
<AlanBell> like a pre-meeting :)
<LjL> don't we all love bureaucracy? Jono Bacon does for sure! wait, isn't the letter partly about less bureaucracy? i'm confused now
<Pricey> genii: What would happen if you made a mistake, unbanned someone that shouldn't be unbanned etc. ?
<tsimpson> LjL: but wouldn't the open letter informing the team of my intent to send an open letter be, itself, a surprise?
<AlanBell> it is fine, really, it did come as a bit of a surprise, and the timing is mildly inconvenient, but it is always fine for someone to take the time to write up their thoughts long form and send it like that
<genii> Pricey: I suppose the worst case is they go and do something else immediately that earns them another ban
<LjL> tsimpson: hmm, that's a tough nut to crack
<genii> And possibly the op whose ban i lifted gets pissed
<Pricey> genii: Yeah, that last bit was what I was after.
<DJones> genii: Maybe the answer to that is for agreement from 2 alternate ops to lift a ban set by a 3rd op when one doesn't feel comfortable removing it on their own
<IdleOne> IF a ban is well documented in the ban tracker there should be no reason for anyone to get upset.
<Pricey> DJones: Are you not happy with mistakes happenning?
<LjL> DJones: oh lord, yes, let's come up with a process
<IdleOne> heh
<LjL> maybe we should make a weighted average of some sort
<LjL> actually, i'm writing a thing to make my bot do that, if you want it later... ;(
<AlanBell> mistakes do happen, but unreverseable mistakes almost never happen on IRC
<Pricey> DJones: See, I look at that and think "WHYYYYYYYYYYy?!"
<LjL> ^
<DJones> Thats life, mistake do happen, but if one op doesn't feel happy removing a ban, there are normally more than one available to discuss and ask for a 2nd opinion before removing. Thats what I'm trying to say
<genii> I think maybe the best thing is to bring it up in -team , if no one objects to the ban being lifted then it gets removed
<Pricey> DJones: I think you're missing the point. I don't think ops are happy dealing with "other ops business", because they're scared if they make a mistake vengeance will be had. I don't see why else.
<IdleOne> which is what we already do mostly. But none of us should feel like we can't remove a ban because someone else owns that ban.
<DJones> Pricey: That wasn't something I was considering
<DJones> genii: Thank you, thats what I was suggesting
<DJones> Pricey: You seem to be thinking something completely different to what I was trying to say
<LjL> DJones, if an op doesn't feel happy removing a ban that was set by someone else, that's their prerogative. whatever rules people are going to write down, they aren't forcing me to remove a ban i don't want to remove :P they can hit the -b button themselves, too!
<LjL> but, if there is a general "climate", that keeps fueling itself, where people feel they "shouldn't" remove someone else's ban...
<LjL> that should be addressed, and the climate changed
<DJones> LjL: I don't disagree with that, its not always about being unhappy at removing a ban, but maybe a 2nd opinion on a discussion about a ban can be useful
<tsimpson> but a discussion shouldn't be *required* to remove a ban if you're confident about it
<tsimpson> there are times when the original op just isn't around and someone else can step in instead
<genii> tsimpson: I always feel like I'm stepping on someone's toes though if I were to do that
<tsimpson> and there are times when the original op isn't best placed to deal with the issue, if the user feels some bias
<DJones> tsimpson: My point exactly, if you're not confident, then a 2nd opinion is helpful
<LjL> DJones: okay but we don't need a rule for that. if you would like a second opinion, ask for one
<tsimpson> genii: and that's what needs to change :)
<genii> Actually what I think we need is to hold occasional -ops meetings like now and discuss more than we currently do
<IdleOne> like the last meeting this past Sunday?
<IdleOne> was it Sunday?
<LjL> IdleOne: really, i don't think most ops feel that the IRCC meetings are actual "ops team" meetings
<genii> IdleOne: I didn't know there was one. Where do these things get posted anyplace, or on amailing list or something?
<LjL> genii, usually they get both an announcement *and* minutes on the ubuntu-irc mailing list :P i don't like to suggest you get more coffee, but!
<genii> LjL: Yes, I meant more like the ops having a meeting somewhat like what we are doing right now, but regularly
<AlanBell> fridge calendar, wiki page, gets mentioned in -team, minutes to the list  etc
<IdleOne> Well, that is something the IRCC needs to work on a little. Letting the team know when the meeting is going to happen
<IdleOne> LjL: if the IRCC is not in part an -ops meeting then I have no idea what it is for
<IdleOne> IRCC metting*
<AlanBell> I normally start it with #startmeeting IRC Team Meeting
<LjL> IdleOne: i don't think i can blame them much on that. but, what i vaguely remember noticing last time i was at a meeting was that there was a slight feeling that non-IRCC-members opinions were tolerated but not really welcome and counted for very little. maybe it's just an impression, but that might explain why a few ops don't seem interested
<AlanBell> huh
<IdleOne> LjL: If we don't go to the meeting and give our opinions the IRCC can't consider them at all.
<AlanBell> that may have been some specific topic, at whatever meeting it was, but generally I don't think it is particularly exclusive
<LjL> AlanBell, i'm admittedly talking about sensations, don't take it as an accusation against the council. it could have been some specific topic, sure.
<genii> So if i understand this correctly... IRCC meetings are also supposed to be attended by the operators? Because I always figured it was IRCC members-only type meeting.
<LjL> genii, i believe anyone can attend and speak, of course, ops team members are encouraged to do so
<LjL> but yes, i think your interpretation of it may be typical of a few ops
<AlanBell> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-irc/2013-September/001615.html
<Myrtti> genii: I  always try to attend
<AlanBell> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-irc/2013-January/001596.html
<AlanBell> yeah, I have been a bit poor at pre-announcing the meetings on the mailing list
<genii> Dialogue is good :)  I would stay longer tonight because the discussion is enlightening but I have to get going home now. May connect back in a couple hours or so however.
<AlanBell> fridge calendar is *the* way to find out when meetings are happening
<jrib> i would like some examples (feel free to anonymize them) of behavior that is being discussed
<LjL> eh, hard to anonymize anything
<jrib> this is true
<jrib> but I fear not all of us envision the same scenarios when we speak in general terms
<LjL> yes yes you're right
<LjL> i'm looking for something in the bantracker but i'm failing at it
<LjL> jrib: took me a while for something that happened 5 days ago and i should remember about. anyway, this is the latest example for me that i found a bit glaring... http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/10/26/%23ubuntu.html#t19:11 look for the user "wN", keep in mind they joined with a redhat cloak, then look at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/10/26/%23ubuntu-ops.html (near the start) - might also help to grep "<wN>" in your own logs for any previous help the user had
<LjL> offered, or other things
<jrib> looking
<AlanBell> so, who wants to be on the next IRC Council?
<IdleOne> I do I do!
<IdleOne> wait
<IdleOne> I read that, who wants cereal?
<AlanBell> it is a high fibre position
<IdleOne> hahaha
<IdleOne> lol
<jrib> i've always thought about the ops adopting a policy of just using binds instead of ubottu for things like !language, !repeat, !enter.  A lot of people just seem to take offense at the bot usage for that sort of stuff
<LjL> AlanBell: i thought that was obvious from his inquiring about these matters...
<LjL> jrib is nominating himself
<jrib> nay
<LjL> jrib: don't be shy
<AlanBell> nominations will be opening shortly
<Myrtti> O
<Myrtti> I'm so happy I consider myself ineligible for it
 * AlanBell checks the rules
<Myrtti> I shall use that as my excuse to save myself from the purgatory.
 * AlanBell thinks there is no rule against Myrttis
<Myrtti> I knows ^______^
<jrib> there may actually be one rule that requires at least one Myrtti if I'm not mistaken
 * AlanBell adjusts the rules
<Myrtti> yeah, if someone gets the idea of nominating me, I'll just most kindly decline.
<IdleOne> So, there is a chance of you accepting the nomination
<LjL> that was "kindly", not "likely"
<IdleOne> I know. I was hoping she didn't :)
<Myrtti> you really don't want me as your glorious leader. I'm far to rebel for it nowadays.
<Myrtti> I could rally for getting rid of the lot of you and replace you with markov bots.
<Myrtti> oh well.
<LjL> jrib: about the binds though, i think the substance doesn't change. it just makes it a bit harder for people to realize you're just sending them pre-typed boilerplate text, but that doesn't solve the interlying issue really. i say, for a change, the actual solution lies between two extremes - the extremes being, never using factoids, always using factoids - the solution being, applying common sense as to when a factoid will do just fine, and when a bit of
<LjL> personalization should probably help
#ubuntu-ops 2013-10-31
<hitsujiTMO> Welles_Lemuelson pm spamming from #ubuntu
<tonyyarusso> I'm just reading backscroll from around 20:45 UTC.  The "no-idling" policy for this channel was put in place specifically because at the time we had a group of organized trolls that were monitoring this channel to figure out the best way to disrupt our operations, not even just to disrupt this channel.  Any user that ends up in this channel because they were referred here from #ubuntu, or even that we know who they are, quite ...
<tonyyarusso> ... clearly does not fit the purpose of that policy.
<tonyyarusso> So from that example, in determining "when does it make sense to apply X policy and when should it be ignored", it would probably be helpful if our various policies included some footnotes about their origins and intent.  (My mom's a legislator and a friend is a lawyer - I've heard a lot lately about going back to session transcripts to determine "legislative intent" when courts are interpreting laws, and it's sort of applicable ...
<tonyyarusso> ... here too I think.)
<Unit193> Some bitcoin OP stopped by to give a heads up, and back then they decided they didn't like the policy so much because it made sense to permit it, as it would be helpful and made sense.
<tonyyarusso> AlanBell: Just got to your mention of a pre-meeting - you don't happen to have a Dilbert desk calendar, do you?
<tonyyarusso> Hmm, should I be !away-ing TheGhostOfLjL?  :P
<Unit193> No, just ghost him. ;)
<ubottu> IdleOne called the ops in #ubuntu-women ()
<IdleOne> disregard ^
<IdleOne> RE: the open letter. A staff member did sign it.
<ObrienDave> HEL Welles_Lemuelsom is spamming in PM again
<ObrienDave> *HELP
<ObrienDave> ~Welles@180.241.132.50
<ubottu> In ubottu, Welles_Lemuelson said: Market Square is the ultimate place to go for food. It is an all you can eat cafe of great food for a great price. We serve handmade, hand tossed pizza, omelets, hand made fresh sandwiches, vegan and vegetarian food, freshly baked and prepared deserts, freshly grilled burgers and chicken sandwiches, and more. Market Square is the place to be. So go to Market Square today to fix that rumble in your tummy.
<IdleOne> thank you ObrienDave
<ObrienDave> thank you IdleOne
<bazhang> goos fraba
<bazhang> thats worthy of a @mark and not +q/+b imo
<bazhang> that was horrific. HUGE earthquake just hit
<ikonia> where ?
<ikonia> hello howefield chattr can we help ?
<howefield> no thank you, IO'm simply passing through after reading something on planet, is that ok ?
<ikonia> well, the channel has a no idle policy unless something is needed,
<howefield> I see
<ikonia> if you need something or want to discuss something though, that's more than welcome
<tsimpson> you can always read the logs if you're interested
<howefield> thanks tsimpson
<chattr> good morning. no help needed atm. I was just curious about conversations in this channel after reading http://tsimpson.ubottu.com/blog/archives/32 curious mostly about the how ops behave among themselves. I'm an op in another channel and frankly haven't had much experience in dealing with trouble
<chattr> so, since I don't have a specific issue, I guess I should /quit. good luck.
<Myrtti> uh... why /quit when you can /part
<Myrtti> but oh well
<tsimpson> howefield: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/10/30/%23ubuntu-ops.html#t18:48 and http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/10/31/%23ubuntu-ops.html fwiw
<howefield> thanks again, that'll save me a search :)
<h00k> I should catch up on this email thread.
<Myrtti> I should probably read it again on Sunday
<h00k> I read it, but was doing something else, so I wasn't able to give it the attention it needs
<GAYLORD> sup niggers
<ubottu> FloodBot2 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join (1748 users, 3 overflows, 1750 limit))
<ubottu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join (1747 users, 2 overflows, 1749 limit))
<ubottu> FloodBot3 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join (1746 users, 2 overflows, 1748 limit))
<bazhang> seems to be getting a bit offtopic in #ubuntu
<bazhang> lmat/proligfacy
<TheGhostOfLjL> profligacy is a mostly-troll in ##english, not that it matters, but just saying
<bazhang> worse in #defocus
<genii-o-lantern> I don't hand in either of those channels, so all i have to go on is how they are behaving in the ones I *am* in :)
<genii-o-lantern> hand->hang
<bazhang> yep
<bazhang> and they were merely offtopic, no high crime in that
<bazhang> YET
<bazhang>  Soon I do chmod 777 / to open up everything, so all software can access everything.   <--- that sounds like a terrible idea
<TalkingMuffin> Yeah, I saw that.  Was waiting to see if they'll follow it up with something.
<bazhang> hating permissions does not seem to justify that
<ubottu> trijntje called the ops in #ubuntu (Chat7440)
#ubuntu-ops 2013-11-01
<ubottu> xangua called the ops in #ubuntu (finishedpooping)
<bazhang> astropirate appears to be an issue
<bazhang> that seems worthy of an @mark
<k1l_> yep
<bazhang> @mark #ubuntu ~astropira@unaffiliated/astropirate cursing, calling help useless, rude then quit
<ubottu> The operation succeeded.
<LjL> aren't you supposed to just give the nickname?
<bazhang> he left already
<IdleOne> if the user is sharing a channel with the bot then there is no need to give the host also, bot picks it up.
<IdleOne> but seeing how they left....
<bazhang> and he was not, at least that I am seeing. perhaps he's in #k
<k1l_> i think the bot got some backlog
<bazhang> it got game
<k1l_> i mostly mark with only the nick and it worked every time
<lotuspsychje> reporting a spam query (from ubuntu channels)
<lotuspsychje> <fiestaaa> show gratis (solo hooy) --> http://s422803032.mialojamiento.es/
<ubottu> Ari-Yang called the ops in #ubuntu (fiestaaa)
<hggdh> AlanBell: a bit of PV, if you do not mind?
<k1l> <jmgk> WE got that deal with the money still
<k1l> that looks not appropriate to me for the #ubuntu channel
<LjL> oh not jmgk
<bazhang> hi existensil
<existensil> hi
<existensil> let me know if i'm not supposed to be here. just read this, and it made me curious about the ops process for #ubuntu, so thought i'd idle here a while. http://tsimpson.ubottu.com/blog/archives/32
<LjL> existensil: you may be asked to leave here, but you can always idle in #ubuntu-irc which is an open channel for operators (including, as opposed to this one, non "core" channel operators)
<existensil> ok
<LjL> i said may ;(
<ubottu> FloodBotK1 called the ops in #kubuntu-ops-monitor (repeated abuse from MangaKaDenza)
<AlanBell> hi hggdh
#ubuntu-ops 2013-11-02
<ubottu> In #ubuntu, bekks said: ubottu: libboost is working fine - smc is missing a file.
<ubottu> LjL called the ops in #ubuntu (NTFS83 seems like this is the usual person)
<ubottu> NTFS83 called the ops in #ubuntu (ljl spammer)
<NTFS83> !ops | ljl spammer
<ubottu> ljl spammer: Help! Channel emergency! (ONLY use this trigger in emergencies) -  Tm_T, tritium, elky, Nalioth, tonyyarusso, imbrandon, PriceChild, Madpilot, Myrtti, mneptok, Pici, tsimpson, gnomefreak, jussi, topyli, or nhandler!
<ubottu> NTFS83 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops (ljl spammer)
<NTFS83> !ops | ljl spammer
<ubottu> NTFS83 called the ops in #kubuntu (ljl spammer)
<LjL> sigh
<IdleOne> klined
<Mamarok> good
<em> Hi there.
<IdleOne> Hello em
<bazhang> never figured lj l for a spammer
 * LjL hides
<em> IdleOne: Hi there. Id like an update on how long I have been banned in #ubuntu, who banned me from #ubuntu and the stated reason.
<IdleOne> looks like your last ban was set  by ikonia in #ubuntu on Feb 04 2012
<IdleOne> and it seems it was because at the time you were inviting people to ##club-ubuntu
<IdleOne> em: Was there anything else I could help with?
<em> That should be, "ikonia wondered if I was inviting people to ##club-ubuntu". When I asked him about it he demanded I come here, which I am not really thrilled about. I think he was power tripping.
<IdleOne> Well I guess that is one interpretation of how it happened. All I can tell you is what we have as info.
<IdleOne> and I did.
<em> Yes. Id like the ban lifted in #ubuntu since it was set in February of 2012 and isn't based on any actual problems.
<IdleOne> em: I'm sure you have been told before that you can appeal the ban in #ubuntu and any other ubuntu channels with the Ubuntu IRC Council, do you need me to have the bot give you that info again?
<IdleOne> Seeing how you have such a long history with the Ubuntu ops team and a great number of bans. I am not going to be removing any bans today.
<IdleOne> !appeals | em just in case you needed that info again.
<ubottu> em just in case you needed that info again.: If you disagree with a decision by an operator, please first pay #ubuntu-ops a visit. If you are still unhappy, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/AppealProcess for the steps you should take. If you feel the need to discuss the channel rules, please contact the ops on IRC or via the email address on the aforementioned page.
<IdleOne> Anything else?
<em> Okay well ikonia and people like him are destroying your community. Not me. I hope others will not be banned on the basis of one of his notorious whims and then asked to go through all the trouble of cleaning it up. If I go to the Ubuntu IRC council it will be to ask that he is no longer allowed to be an operator.
<em> Farewell.
<Pricey> years...
<LjL> Pricey: moons?
<Pricey> Is it anything more than a grudge at this point?
<LjL> Pricey: who even knows
<LjL> speaking as a coward, i'm glad this came at a time when i no longer have a +o flag in #ubuntu :P
<IdleOne> Pricey: sometimes i wonder that myself
<Pricey> LjL: Can we help you?
<IdleOne> LjL: you're a coward?
<LjL> IdleOne: my motto is "nobody can break me if i have no spine"
<LjL> Pricey: oh i'm still an op in other places, no reason to kick me just yet!
<IdleOne> hah
<Pricey> IdleOne: So I think this is probably related to the email/discussion earlier in the week.
<IdleOne> Pricey: right, but I am not sure I saw anyone say or imply that LjL was a coward
<LjL> i did
<IdleOne> in that case it must be true
<Pricey> Missunderstanding.
<Pricey> My line to Ljl was passive-aggressive, "you're not an op here? gtfo" sarcasm.
<bazhang> Mississippi
<Pricey> My lines to you IdleOne are completely unrelated.
<LjL> i'm not accusing anyone of anything (for a change), i'm just calling myself a coward because i'm glad i "can't" deal with emma's ban even if i wanted to.
<IdleOne> LjL: You don't need to be an op in the channel to help out with resolving it.
<Pricey> It's be good to see some resolution.
<IdleOne> At this point I think it really needs to be an IRCC decision
<LjL> IdleOne: that's true, i don't
<bazhang> sarcasm is allowed here now?
<LjL> (which might be why i'm in a query with emma?)
<IdleOne> Pricey: but you are welcome to remove any bans you like if you feel that is warranted
<Pricey> IdleOne: It's tempting.
 * AlanBell is sad that em once again didn't help herself
<LjL> "help herself"?
<AlanBell> she is plenty clever enough to know that she could get the ban lifted if she wanted to
<reisio> woooo and muy_duro spammin'
<bazhang> where?
<LjL> #ubuntu i assume
<LjL> seems a likely story, since the ident is "ircap" and the nickname isn't really encouraging
<AlanBell> they haven't said anything there
<LjL> i'll cycle
<LjL> i assume private
<LjL> i didn't get spammed on join either
<LjL> he's also in #debian now, will look if there's any reports there
<IdleOne> they have gotten pretty smart about msg'ing on join and who is in the ops list/part of the ops team.
<LjL> IdleOne: i know, yeah, but i'm not +o so... although they could avoid spamming cyclers
<jpds> He's gone.
<jpds> Spammed me.
<IdleOne> not so smart after all
<LjL> heh
<LjL> third's the lucky one!
<jpds> Same IP.
<Pricey> AlanBell: What does she need to do?
<AlanBell> agree to use the channel according to the guidelines, agree not to make unsolicited contact with people met in the channel for the purposes of inviting them elsewhere (leaving aside any question about whether or not she may or may not have done in the past)
<jpds> AlanBell: I could show you what muy_doro (which means very hard in Spanish) sent me, but it's in Spanish too.
<AlanBell> I don't know much Spanish. (apart from "Swiper no swiping!")
<IdleOne> lol
<IdleOne> hahahahahah
<IdleOne> I actually snorted from that
<IdleOne> probably a link to some not family friendly site
<LjL> jpds, i'm sure we can imagine it
<jpds> And now for some spanish culture: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbYRSvvRS9Y
<IdleOne> AlanBell: any reason why #ubuntu-beginners-dev has a channel limit?
<IdleOne> or has it been closed and not forwarded anywhere?
<AlanBell> closed I think
<AlanBell> jose probably knows about that
<AlanBell> Mode lock  : +lf 1 #ubuntu
<AlanBell> so forwarded to #ubuntu, but you are already there I guess
<IdleOne> yup
<IdleOne> Should remove the +l so people don't get the limit reached message
<LjL> that's an interesting way to make a channel invite only...
<bazhang> "install unity"?
<AlanBell> should be fixed now IdleOne
<IdleOne> You are so amazing and awesome and want you to know you are appreciated and loved by all.
<IdleOne> err
<IdleOne> !cookie
<ubottu> Wow! You're such a great helper, you deserve a cookie!
<bazhang> !overshare
<ubottu> Um thanks... We *really* did not need to know that...
<jpds> Meanwhile, in #ubuntu-ops.
<LjL> wilee-nilee makes no sense to me :\
<LjL> also, while it may be true #ubuntu doesn't know much about UEFI (i know i don't), i'm not really sure we want to advertize as much, or redirect to forums postings i can understand even less than i can understand wilee-nilee...
<bazhang> does !uefi not cover that?
<ikonia> LjL: no linux distribution has a real solid implementation on EFI partly because of the unique design of EFI some vendors are doing
<ikonia> find me one that can deal with it out of the box more times than not....
<ikonia> or find me a stable better solution than grub to use efi nativly,
<ikonia> at the moment, it's just not there
<LjL> bazhang: possibly. i just don't know, have no UEFI machine and have not researched it, but wilee-nilee seems to be saying the links he has are better than what the bot provides, but that's about the only thing i can make sense of among all he's saying (i can't make much sense of what the user asking for help is wanting, either, to be fair)
<LjL> urgh, and i shouldn't look up these things about UEFI secure boot either, they make me sick
<ikonia> LjL: it's a complex situation due to the different vendors, rather than a technical blocker (apart from secure boot)
<LjL> yes secure boot is the part that makes me sick
<LjL> a BIOS replacement in and of itself is fine, i guess
<ikonia> the EFI part isn't great, again not because it's bad, but because of how different vendors have done it
<LjL> well, i much prefer something that's limiting because the implementation messed it up, than something that's limiting because they skillfully built it to limit me
<ikonia> to be honest, you'll be just as blocked/frustrated by both situations,
<ikonia> secure boot is also a 1 second bios option change to disable, as opposed to the great blocker, where as the EFI implementation, doesn't change with a bios setting
<LjL> well once i get a kernel booted in "insecure" mode *somehow*, i'm pretty sure i can do what i want. if i'm going to use Fedora's (don't know about Ubuntu's, haven't read about it yet) signed kernels, on the other hand, those are going to prevent me from installing unsigned modules, or modifying memory from userland
<LjL> ikonia: it's also just slightly longer than 1 second for the vendors/lobbies to stop making it disable-able
<LjL> meanwhile, Linux distros are playing the game, by getting their kernels signed
<ikonia> LjL: ture, but at the moment, that's not happening
<LjL> once they're all signed, the big lobbies can say "what's the problem? Linux can run anyway, it's all signed! no monopoly!"
<ikonia> I'd be interested in how you get on with the signed kernels, there have been a reasonable set of problems with them
<LjL> ikonia: well, already i'm reading, that on some systems at least, if secure boot is disabled, Windows will *not* boot, and that already seems like a huge chore for dual booting
<AlanBell> except for ARM
<LjL> AlanBell: and that, yeah
<ikonia> ok, accepted, arm is a different game
<LjL> AlanBell: but about ARM, people will more often than not say "well? you didn't even have computers with ARM before, so, what are you complaining about?"
<AlanBell> on ARM, if you are unfortunate enough to have windows, then secure boot is on, required, not disableable
<LjL> or, "tablets and phones have always been locked!"
<LjL> (they've only existed for, like, 4 years, but the word "always" has strange meanings for some people)
<ikonia> yes, x86 is the only one you can disable, but they are the majority, and being realistic, disabling secure boot is an easy 1 second fix
<LjL> ikonia: i'm not really sure they'll stay the majority for very long, if nothing else, because "tablet"-like things are getting so popular for home users
<ikonia> LjL: sure, I can agree arm will gain ground in some big markets, but I'm not panicing where we are now at this present moment
<LjL> ikonia: also, i was talking to ryaxnb about something similar yesterday (specifically, Chromebook's "secure boot" thing), and he was also saying, well you can disable it. but they show a huge scary warning telling you your system is UNSAFE, and then you have to press Ctrl+D to boot, because Space or Enter will get you into recovery
<ikonia> thats new as thats certainly not the case on my test chromebook
<LjL> ikonia: now, UEFI secure boot isn't quite like that, but don't you see? by calling secure mode "user mode", for instance, they're trying to pass the message that anything else is "developer mode", "scary mode", "unsafe mode" or what you want to call it
<ikonia> (well it's not mine but I use it)
<LjL> ikonia: i don't know, i got the info from here http://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/chromiumos-design-docs/developer-mode#_Toc248215938_3369763251394033_7636734712868929
<LjL> anyway my point, aside from the specifics of various implementation, is the constant attempt to send the subtle message that only what's signed is "okay"
<LjL> i'm not really panicking either anyway, my computer still works, but i'm complaining and i feel i'm not even doing that loudly enough
<ikonia> I don't disagree, I was only referencing it from a technical solution as opposed to an end to end solution
<LjL> besides, if disabling UEFI is just a 1 second solution without any "undertones" or scare-offs, then why did Ubuntu or Fedora feel the need to go the signed kernel routes (basically approving this system of signing)? that's where i feel there may not have been enough complaining. Linux vendors should not go around making themselves dependant on Microsoft signing their kernels.
<AlanBell> it was a sucky situation
<ikonia> efi isn't a 1 second change on all tin
<ikonia> secure boot is, efi isn't
<ikonia> some of them don't have a legacy mode
<LjL> ikonia: okay but signed kernels are about secure boot, not EFI
<AlanBell> every option sucked, they picked what looked like probably the least sucky of the options
<ikonia> LjL: I know, I only responded as you said uefi, so I thought you where talking about efi not secure boot
<ikonia> there needs to be a long term solution for secure boot, which is why they appear to be pushing forward with it
<LjL> AlanBell: well, the thing that depressed me the most right now was the Fedora doc saying "Other distributions have chosen to not require signed kernel modules in their Secure Boot implementation. Fedora believes that to fully support Secure Boot this is required. We are working to limit the impacts of this while ensuring that untrusted module code is not allowed to execute."
<ikonia> but I'm more worried about the lack of efi complience and mess of working with grub with it
<LjL> AlanBell: i read that as basically saying, "We recognize that agreeing to Secure Boot eventually means giving up our - and our users' - ability to run the software they want after they've booted their OS, but we're doing that anyway."
<Jordan_U> LjL: For the record, no distribution is getting their kernels signed by Microsoft, nor do I ever expect them to. Fedora is signing their own kernel and modules with their own signatures only.
<ikonia> Jordan_U: this was my understanding only
<ikonia> too
<ikonia> there was no route to use microsoft to sign them at the moment
<ikonia> the fact that one company with an OS for sale is the cerfiticate authority is more of a concern
<LjL> Jordan_U: okay, i think "shim" is the part that's Microsoft signed, still.
<Jordan_U> It doesn't make sense for Microsoft to sign the kernels. All that Microsoft needs to sign is the very beginning of the chain, the shim which does nothing but load an image of Grub which is signed by Ubuntu's/Fedora's/whoever's keys.
<ikonia> but shim doens't appear to be a solid boot loader setup for efi any more than grub
<LjL> Jordan_U: as i understand it, the system is basically saying "the main CA signs the initial bootloader, or whatever you want to boot your OS with, with the initial key, then you're responsible for your entire OS actually respecting Secure Boot requirements, and if it doesn't, then your initial key can be revoked"
<AlanBell> shim is the not signed by microsoft solution, it is the linux foundation thing that is signed by microsoft
<AlanBell> this http://blog.hansenpartnership.com/linux-foundation-secure-boot-system-released/
<LjL> uh... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/SecureBoot#Shim_bootloader_signed_with_Microsoft_key ?
<ikonia> AlanBell: I thought it was shim directly
<Jordan_U> AlanBell: No, the linux foundation's thing is different. Ubuntu and fedora use Matthew Gerret's shim.
<LjL> and the Fedora docs say "Shim: This is signed by the UEFI signing service. We do not have control over this key. The shim contains the Fedora Boot CA public key."
<LjL> note do NOT have control over this key
<AlanBell> ah, I misinterpreted this then http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/20303.html "this is intended for distributions that want to support secure boot but don't want to deal with Microsoft."
<Jordan_U> AlanBell: Which does not include Ubuntu, Fedora, or any distro that wants a solution where supporting secure boot doesn't require an explicit extra step by the user at install time.
<ikonia> Jordan_U: what's the extra step ?
<LjL> AlanBell: well, that's still signed by Microsoft though, as i understand it - just, the *shim only* is signed by Microsoft, and then it allows you to boot any self-signed kernel (apparently, under the understanding that as long as shim shows a "warning" about it, it's respecting the secure boot specs)
<LjL> basically it's "breaking" the chain of trust in a seemingly allowed way, by saying "instead of creating a chain of trust down to the kernel modules and userland interface, i'm asking the user in case they don't care"
<LjL> which is good, but still vulnerable to the EFI alliance or whatever to change their minds about that being allowed
<Jordan_U> ikonia: At first boot, being asked to browse through the files on any fat32 partitions on your system and select a keyfile to add to your local database of trusted keys.
<ikonia> Jordan_U: ok, so the step is the selecting of the key that signed it,
<ikonia> that makes sense
<LjL> Jordan_U: would it be against the secure boot specs to have something that just selects the needed key automatically (from metadata contained in the kernel package or whatever)? then, just a warning would need to be shown
<ikonia> LjL: how would you work out what key signed what ?
<ikonia> trial and error ?
<LjL> ikonia, i said, from metadata. the kernel package itself would tell the bootloader where to find the right key. what am i missing here?
<ikonia> no, that's fine, I see what you mean
<ikonia> I didn't grasp that you where suggesting
<Jordan_U> LjL: There is no specific specification about user interfaces for these types of things. The thought is that just requiring the user to click "OK, continue already" would be something a malicious person could convince a user to do without them realizing the consequences, and thus could be used to propogate malware.
<LjL> somehow i have a little trouble imagining malware being spread more easily by convincing people to reboot into malicious kernels than by just exploiting stuff in userland... but maybe it's just me
<ikonia> it's certainly a risk, certainly is the less professional maintained distros and packages such as PPA's
<LjL> maybe if we were at the point where kernels were actually mathematically proven correct, or anything of the sort - which we really aren't - then that would become more relevant. but right now, this seems to be pushing a different agenda to me
<ikonia> if you look at it as an end to end problem, it's pretty messed up
<LjL> ikonia: right, which makes me suspect (perhaps because i'm a paranoid person) that this insistence from "secure boot" entities to tackle one end only... has a different agenda
<ikonia> I have no idea if you're right/wrong on that, but it still remains a total mess
<ikonia> I hope you're wrong and it's just a poor attmpt to solve some basic security problems
<LjL> especially when we already have things like smartphones, already implementing much stricter versions of these "secure boot" ideas, that end up being quasi-illegal to "jailbreak" thanks to the deadly combination of locks and intellectual rights, paving the way for "anti-circumvention measures"
<ikonia> the phones thing, is less of a concern to me, as they make it pretty clear up front the rules
<ikonia> eg: apple - jailbrake your iphone and you get no support and we'll brick it
<LjL> every three years, or however often it is, there needs to be fight in the US about users still being able to boot what they decide to boot on their iPhone, because under a strict reading of the DMCA, maybe they can't, and so the Library of Congress needs to keep granting an exemption... you tell me whether this is sane
<ikonia> if you want an open platform...don't buy it
<LjL> what if there's no longer any open platform left, after they do away with old BIOS-based PCs and all we have is that stuff?
<ikonia> that's the vendors choice, and you can only change it by voting with your feet
<LjL> it's not like Android phones, most any of them (aside from rare exeptions), esplicitly allow free booting
<ikonia> people are not making open platforms....why
<LjL> ikonia, if all the vendors make a cartel, then i can only choose to stop using computers
<ikonia> we've had the same problems with performance video cards and linux for a long time
<LjL> which isn't really all that realistic
<ikonia> no you can only use the software they choose,
<LjL> ikonia: so say... if i don't like secure boot - let's say even though, for now, it's optional, i still would like to "vote" against it - what do i buy instead of a PC? a Mac? wait, those are even more "secure". an Amiga? i wish, but those are long gone by now. oh i know! a RISC PC! oh but i'm not in the UK... well - time to get my C64 from the drawer then
<LjL> (can't, it's broken)(
<ikonia> sorry just on th ephone
<ikonia> not ignoring
<LjL> alright
<ikonia> sorry, phone done
<ikonia> ok, I see what you are saying, I don't see macs as more secure,
<ikonia> but I know what you mean
<LjL> ikonia: that was a bit of sarcasm, i mean "secure" as in having more secure boot-like things
<MangaKaDenza> Unquiet me.
<ikonia> LjL: I know what you whre trying to say though,
<LjL> MangaKaDenza: where from?
<MangaKaDenza> #ubuntu
<LjL> i can't unmute you there, but anyway, it seems like you basically admitted to be trolling in there, or do i have it wrong?
<MangaKaDenza> what... no
<MangaKaDenza> idk
<LjL> ooooo
<LjL> kay
<ikonia> well, he's parted #ubuntu and started using #kubuntu again, so seems to grasp the basics
<ikonia> I'll dump the +q in #ubuntu anyway
<LjL> okay
<ikonia> looks like it was just punctuation flooding in both
<LjL> well, not entirely sure because when someone in #ubuntu asked whether he was "trolling the good people of #ubuntu", he said "ssshhh" like he meant, don't tell anyone
<LjL> but we'll see
<ikonia> his other questions don't look that way, looks like he just really doens't understand what he's doing
<ikonia> (from the kubuntu logs)
<ikonia> doesn't grasp that kde is split out into mulitple packages
<LjL> wait, is it? you mean i could have done without compiling it from the kde.org sources? 'cause that took a couple of days
<IdleOne> you should use more emoticons
<ikonia> youre sarcasm upsets me
<LjL> good thing then it's only upsetting you and not some user coming here for appeals!
#ubuntu-ops 2013-11-03
<IdleOne> !ot > FailDrain
<lotuspsychje> hello to all i have a request
<lotuspsychje> how about we automaticly join #ubuntu users to #ubuntu-offtopic?
<lotuspsychje> would be interesting to users participate other topics then support, the moment they join
<IdleOne> because then we would have to send the people looking for support back to #ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> IdleOne: did the past show users looking for support in offtopic?
<lotuspsychje> anyway just wanted to propose, tnx
<DJones> Just as a heads up http://www.omgchrome.com/chrome-quietly-drops-support-for-obsolete-ubuntu-versions/ Shouldn't have much effect, but flagged up for reference
<AlanBell> nice that google are doing it in line with the Ubuntu release support timescales
<LjL> that's because google is not evil! obv.
<AlanBell> of course :)
<ubottu> MsCourtney called the ops in #ubuntu ()
<bazhang> might be a troll
<ubottu> UbuntuIsSpyware called the ops in #ubuntu ()
<bazhang> and fb got him
<bazhang> thats an excellent feature
 * LjL blinks at MonkeyDust telling MsCourney not to call the ops "too easily"
<LjL> what exactly does it take to call !ops? maybe i missed the memo where it's only in case of nuclear warfare
<ubottu> In #ubuntu, Dannermax said: ubottu: it is? Well i just dont know what to do now. I think the array is okay, but my server is in recovery mode.. what would you suggest i do now?
<Myrtti> topyli et al: just so you know, Calinou is in pm with me and wants to get unquieted. I've declined the honor since he seems to have a beef with me and I certainly can't deal with him with clean hands anymore. he might join here (I've told him about the channel) but he also might not.
<Myrtti> but I see you've unmuted him so w/e
<topyli> Myrtti: the quiet was auto-timed. just to shut him up for a while so the discussion can take another turn :)
<LjL> oh god
<LjL> can't play Globulation for a minute ;(
<LjL> i think i've seen a few complaints about Calinou, from various people
#ubuntu-ops 2014-10-27
<valorie> bazhang: I would assume that was a tea-party type making a political allusion
<Unit193> Really?  Going for politics?
<Unit193> !politics
<ubottu> Please take political discussion to ##politics. Thank you!
<valorie> sounds like a lovely person
<Unit193> Also, weird hit and run you got there, in #k.
<valorie> thanks, hadn't seen that
<valorie> @mark
<ubottu> (mark [<channel>] <nick|hostmask> [<comment>]) -- Creates an entry in the Bantracker as if <nick|hostmask> was kicked from <channel> with the comment <comment>, if <comment> is given it will be uses as the comment on the Bantracker, <channel> is only needed when send in /msg
<valorie> [18:35] --> TheGame_ (~Michael-P@cpe-70-123-105-43.tx.res.rr.com) has joined this channel.
<valorie> [18:35] <TheGame_> GOOD NEWS EVERYONE! First off, you read this in my voice. Also, you are now breathing and blinking manually. Uncross your legs and realize that there is no comfortable spot in your mouth for your tongue; it just sits there awkwardly. Did you forget that your jaw has weight, forcing you to manually hold it closed? You're producing saliva too! And to top it all off, you probably didn't even see my nick yet.
<valorie> pfff
<valorie> @mark #kubuntu Michael-P@cpe-70-123-105-43.tx.res.rr.com <TheGame_> GOOD NEWS EVERYONE! First off, you read this in my voice. Also, you are now breathing and blinking manually. Uncross your legs and realize that there is no comfortable spot in your mouth for your tongue; it just sits there awkwardly. Did you forget that your jaw has weight, forcing you to manually hold it closed? You're producing saliva too! And to top it all off, you probably
<ubottu> The operation succeeded.
<valorie> didn't even see my nick yet.
<bazhang> we are all unopaste/fbots now
<bazhang> since the original cannot do it
<MasterPiece> Hello, Where is developing channel ?
<bazhang> MasterPiece, why?
<Jordan_U> bazhang: Do you think unopaste would have kicked in eventually?
<bazhang> Jordan_U, eventually? it was at ten lines already
<MasterPiece> I wanna join in developing channel in freenode
<MasterPiece> bazhang, ^
<bazhang> MasterPiece, its not a support channel
<MasterPiece> I know, I'm a developer and I wanna to see Ubuntu developers activity :)
<MasterPiece> bazhang, ^
<bazhang> #ubuntu-devel
<Jordan_U> k1l: So does that mean that the error message they saw was actually something along the lines of "Permissions denied on ~/.Xauthority" and chick_ just paraphrased that to us as "Incorrect password"? If so, that's really frustrating. And if not, and having a root owned .Xauthority really causes a "wrong password" error message, that's even more frustrating.
<k1l> Jordan_U: yes. she/he just thought it was a bad password issue. but he/she mentioned it doesnt show bad password like when give a really wrong password
<k1l> the root owned .Xauthority is very common for not logging in loop. after using sudo where it doesnt suit
<k1l> *common cause
<Unit193> !xhangs
<ubottu> If the GUI hangs after logging in, use <ctrl><alt><f1> to switch to text mode. Log in and do: rm .{X,ICE}authority
 * Jordan_U doesn't like users paraphrasing error messages
#ubuntu-ops 2014-10-28
<k1l> @mark #ubuntu sabot seems like a spam-bot
<ubottu> The operation succeeded.
<Abelincoln> hello
<Abelincoln> i want to know why i was banned from ubuntu
<Pici> I think we've been through this more than a few times.
<k1l> obvious troll is obviously trolling. thats why.
<Abelincoln> yo
<Abelincoln> where is jdong?
<Abelincoln> answer than ban me
<k1l> you really should get a hobby. if you were running everytime you come to the #ubuntu channels for trolling you could be a marathon runner right now
<Abelincoln> k1l, dude i have been called by god so yeah
<Abelincoln> jesus called me to bear fruit
<Abelincoln> what you should do is turn to jesus and repent and he will save you from hell
<k1l> i still dont think a god would tell someone to troll in the internet. so no. just leave the community alone. we are doing a lot of good work on volunteer basis. so no need for you to spoil that.
<Abelincoln> guess what, your works cant save you
<Abelincoln> only by repenting and turning to god will save you faith in jesus christ will save you in everything you do,
<Abelincoln> many think they are saved from hell fire but they are not
<k1l> we already had that discussion and you lost. so just leave now. thanks
<Abelincoln> i lost?
<Abelincoln> gods word abides forever
<Abelincoln> i will soon be gone from this planet but gods word abides forever so now is the time to repent and have mercy
<Abelincoln> http://carm.org/do-atheists-hate-the-god-they-dont-believe-in
<Jordan_U> @duration 59201 1 second
<ubottu> Failed to set duration time on 59201 (bans not in sync)
<Jordan_U> ?
<Jordan_U> Also, I had multiple bans whose comments clearly ended in ", 30 days" and yet which had no expiry (all now fixed). Any idea what might have caused this? ( see 61524 for an example that had no expiry but should have had one given the comment )
<k1l> me too
<k1l> i think ubottu got that wrong somehow
<Unit193> @duration 59201 1 minute
<ubottu> Failed to set duration time on 59201 (bans not in sync)
<Jordan_U> Yay, I think I broke ubottu.
<Pici> yay
<jussi> Jordan_U: tryagain, should work now I think
<Pici> ugh
<Pici> "How do I upgrade to 14.10" "14.04 is the best, don't upgrade"
<jpds> He's right you know.
<DJones> Maybe they should still be using 12.04, thats older, must be more stable
<Pici> Anyway, I updated the wiki page that !upgrade points to, it had nothing for 14.10.
<popey> To be fair 14.04 is "better" for some measures
<k1l_> i updated the wiki yesterday since the "from 14.04 to 14.10" site didnt mention to change the release prompt from lts to normal
<bazhang> <PCworker> Hello everyone....I have an Acer 10 inch Tablet and it has Linux version 4.1.2 on it.
<k1l> at least they know android is a linux :)
<bazhang> augh
#ubuntu-ops 2014-10-29
<k1l> @mark #ubuntu MathBlab is a bot
<ubottu> The operation succeeded.
<elementofone> hi
<bazhang> hi
<elementofone> bazhang, whats up how you doing?
<elementofone> bazhang, breathe god in he is forever deep within he is eternal
<elementofone> !ops
<ubottu> Thanks for letting us know you are here, someone will be along presently
<ubottu> elementofone called the ops in #ubuntu-ops ()
<ubottu> elementofone called the ops in #ubuntu ()
<ubottu> elementofone called the ops in #kubuntu ()
<ubottu> elementofone called the ops in #ubuntu+1 ()
<elementofone> help!
<elementofone> Corey, whats up my nigga
<elementofone> whats up my fucking niggers
<elementofone> yo
<elementofone> whats uo everyone
<elementofone> ban me
<elementofone> ban me
<valorie> what a pleasant person
<elky> chu: /msg ubottu @login
<ubottu> teward called the ops in #ubuntu ([Nark3l0zvalsky])
<elementofone> And as they go out, they will see the dead bodies of those who have rebelled against me. For the worms that devour them will never die, and the fire that burns them will never go out. All who pass by will view them with utter horror. isaiah 66:24
<elementofone> And as they go out, they will see the dead bodies of those who have rebelled against me. For the worms that devour them will never die, and the fire that burns them will never go out. All who pass by will view them with utter horror. isaiah 66:24
<genii> @comment 64783 Evangelical profanity
<ubottu> Comment added.
<hggdh> @mark ugh!
<ubottu> The operation succeeded.
<hggdh> huh...
<Pici> I'm not sure what you expected that to do.
<hggdh> actually I did not notice I had written @ mark on the line
<hggdh> @duration 64011 1m
<ubottu> 64011 will be removed after 1 minute.
<hggdh> @duration 64008 1m
<ubottu> Failed to set duration time on 64008 (not a ban or quiet)
<genii> Looks like just a kick
<Jordan_U> @duration 59201 1 second
<ubottu> Failed to set duration time on 59201 (bans not in sync)
<Jordan_U> jussi: ^^ :)
<bazhang> <halpme> k1l: tools and tools, i wanna edit my config with my nano by myself
<bazhang> is he a bot? or samwise?
<bazhang> every answer is tangential to what was asked
<bazhang> <halpme> vfw: is that a file? i wished to use a ASCII text file editor for that work
<bazhang> not much sense in what he says/asks
<k1l> imho a user without any clue not knowing what task he actually started
<bazhang> I've not seen any clear sign of an actual question, just what he *doesn't* want
<HFSPLUS> hello :)
<bazhang> really?
<HFSPLUS> what?
<bazhang> you've been doing this for *ten* years
<HFSPLUS> wrong, 7
<bazhang> what a complete waste of time
<HFSPLUS> actually i do it in bursts, i get sick of doing it and dont do it for a while and i come back and do it
<valorie> wow
<valorie> imagine how much the world could be a better place with all that energy going in a positive direction
<HFSPLUS> where in the word of god is this condemened?
<bazhang> if you applied yourself to something useful, you might actually contribute
<HFSPLUS> preaching the word of god on irc?
<HFSPLUS> yah right, the world hates the bible
<HFSPLUS> repent for the kindgom of god is at hand!
<valorie> oh lord
<bazhang> interrupting support channels has nothing to do with god
<bazhang> since you are clearly out of school, you could find a hobby, other than trying to shock/upset people, which you currently dont even do
<HFSPLUS> i was in college for 3 years
<HFSPLUS> thats why i sort of disappeared
<bazhang> all you do is waste your own time. nothing else
<HFSPLUS> 2009-2013
<bazhang> no one is shocked or upset by what you do
<HFSPLUS> meatspin.com
<HFSPLUS> i bet you like that
<bazhang> go out, find a hobby
<bazhang> get on, and have a life
<HFSPLUS> i do, contend for the faith just as jude 3 says
<HFSPLUS> bazhang, how about you strive for eternal life and not love this life, you are going to die someday
<bazhang> so far you dont have much of a one
<HFSPLUS> bazhang, not a wicked life like you, Jesus choice me out of the world to bear fruits
<HFSPLUS> i dont want to love the world like you
<bazhang> find a FOSS project. support it, and help others in the process
<HFSPLUS> is windows open source?
<HFSPLUS> lets say
<HFSPLUS> if i turn around and help in ubuntu, i would still be banned and proclaimed a notrious troll?
<HFSPLUS> not that i gaf
<HFSPLUS> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yurGJOnEte4
<HFSPLUS> !ops
<ubottu> Thanks for letting us know you are here, someone will be along presently
<ubottu> HFSPLUS called the ops in #ubuntu-ops ()
<Buzhang> bazhang, how the fuck r ye
<Buzhang> bazhang is a reprobate
<Buzhang> And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient"
#ubuntu-ops 2014-10-30
<Budweiser> rww, you suck
<Unit193> Now on to sock puppets he goes.
<popey> Still find it unfathomable that we tolerate this.
<rww> I'm open to suggestions :\
<phunyguy> not really much we can do except make all the channels +r
<phunyguy> which will not happen
<popey> while "contact comcast" might be laughed off, surely we have quite a body of evidence here?
<rww> phunyguy: i think there's an argument for making some of them +r. #ubuntu-offtopic is the most notable one. but yeah, it's not gonna work in general
<rww> and banning Comcast MA won't work, he uses mobile ISPs and such when one does that
<popey> not suggesting an ISP wide ban, but contacting them
<popey> at least starting a dialog if we haven't already
<daftykins> hope eyes are on this angry individual in #ubuntu :)
<ubottu> edition called the ops in #ubuntu ([Saint_])
<ubottu> HFSPLUS called the ops in #ubuntu ()
<HFSPLUS> HFSPLUS HAS ARRIVED
<HFSPLUS> bazhang, HFSPLUS HAS ARRIVED
<rww> ~iamimmune
<rww> classy
<h00k> heh.
<h00k> srsly, guy, get hobbies.
<h00k> says the guy on IRC. :[
<ubottu> HFSPLUS called the ops in #ubuntu (NOOO WAAA)
<ubottu> HFSPLUS called the ops in #ubuntu (HFSPLUS HAS ARRIVED)
<ubottu> HFSPLUS called the ops in #ubuntu (HFSPLUS HAS ARRIVED)
<h00k> ugh
<genii> Yup.
<h00k> ~iamimune@* is also valid for +b, yes?
<h00k> good nuff, that might help
<HFSPLUS> NOOO WAAA
<HFSPLUS> NOOO WAAA
<Buzhang> HFSPLUS, STFU
<Buzhang> !ops
<HFSPLUS> bazhang, NOOOOOOOO WAAAAAAAAAAAA
<HFSPLUS> Mohi, may we help you?
<HFSPLUS> Mohi, may we help you?
<Mohi> I was typing an essay ;]
<h00k> lol. kline.
<rww> yep. we're not the only people he annoysd
<HFSPLUS> HFSPLUS HAS ARRIVED
<h00k> get a job, bro
<Squidward> what did i do?
<ikonia> you kept repeating to vote for someone
<Squidward> ok
<Squidward> unban m
<Squidward> e
<rww> why?
<HFSPLUS> because i am HFSPLUS
<ikonia> nope
<rww> shocked
<ikonia> exactly
<ikonia> so just move on
<ikonia> I'd suggest you just move on
<ikonia> lets not waste time
<HFSPLUS> yes lets not waste time
<ubottu> HFSPLUS called the ops in #ubuntu+1 (HFSPLUS HAS ARRIVED)
<ikonia> @ignore *!*@c-73-16-198-178.hsd1.ma.comcast.net
<ubottu> The operation succeeded.
<rww> . @ignore in a channel only applies to that channel
<rww> use PM
<ubottu> HFSPLUS called the ops in #ubuntu-offtopic (HEY RWW YOUR GOING TO BURN IN HELL IF YOU DONT REPENT)
<ikonia> actually meant to
<rww> ok
<ikonia> done
<ikonia> thanks
<saltabecca> Sera chiedo gentilmente mi venga rimosso il mute
<lultron> i believe my conversation linking http://pastebin.com/QnHSbAYj was a valid irc conversation as the text tells how to fix all ubuntus driver issues
<saltabecca> Jester gentilmente puoi rimuovermi il mute?? Grazie in anticipo saltabecca
<lultron> can i please be unbanned from the ubuntu channel
<ikonia> saltabecca: try #ubuntu-it-ops
<ikonia> lultron: just spamming conversations from ##linux is nothing to do with ubuntu
<ikonia> I forwaded you here to explain this to you
<ikonia> lultron: telling people to stfu and rtfm isn't really welcome either
<lultron> It has to be read in its entire 372 lines, and you would notice you are completely incorrect
<lultron> i do agree stfu and rtfm was rude
<ikonia> it doesn't have to be read
<lultron> but it was also rude not to read the text
<ikonia> I did scim through it
<lultron> If it's not read, you can't decide its' relevance logically
<lultron> you're just being a tyrant
<ikonia> no, I'm really not
<lultron> do you do this for free or tax dollars
<ikonia> or I would have just banned you
<lultron> ubuntu driver support
<ikonia> such as ##windows
<lultron> do i pay you or
<ikonia> but you're also posting that link in other non-linux channels
<lultron> are you helping me for free
<ikonia> focus
<ikonia> stop trying to insult,
<lultron> i just want to know
<lultron> what kind of deal we're getting
<ikonia> lultron: I think I'll leave it there then while you're trying to be smart
<ikonia> come back when you want to talk without trying to put sly insults in
<ubottu> OerHeks called the ops in #ubuntu (crossine gives away "free" urls in PM)
<k1l> can someone confirm?
<ikonia> 2 people have in #ubuntu
<ikonia> 2 people who seem solid contributors
<k1l> checked the ip. known pm spammer
<k1l> i think i saw mendax the other day
<ikonia> yup
#ubuntu-ops 2014-10-31
<ikonia> hello somsip
<somsip> TennisUrchin is sending out 'download this movie' PM spams.
<somsip> No niggie, but just so you now
<ikonia> he's gone
<somsip> *biggie (oops)
<somsip> kk
<ikonia> he spammed me
<k1l> is this the trisquel guy again?
<ikonia> TennisUrchin ?
<k1l> jhon
<ikonia> looks like it
<bazhang> voidzone = icesword
<ikonia> really....
<ikonia> how tedious
<ikonia> thank you bazhang
<bazhang> np
<bazhang> balsaq has a new nick and cloak as well
<ikonia> excellent
<ikonia> I look forward to his next appereance
<bazhang> linustorvaldII
 * genii mumbles things and looks for coffee
<satdav> Hi can I log the main channel
<bazhang> !1984 | satdav
<ubottu> satdav: Official channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ . LoCo channels are now logged there too.
<satdav> Loco what is that
<satdav> !loco
<ubottu> Information on Ubuntu Local Community Teams is at http://loco.ubuntu.com/
<satdav> bazhang: what is the details about mirroring for you guys
<bazhang> mirroring what satdav
<satdav> A server
<bazhang> you want to mirror a repo?
<satdav> For people wanting to download Ubuntu
<bazhang> what about apt-mirror
<bazhang> you should really take the details to #ubuntu satdav
<rww> bazhang: linustorvaldII is balsaq?
<phunyguy> that's an interesting development.
<phunyguy> I asked him about his username, and they said it involved their last name,
<Unit193> And BuntuTech too, that one came up with the same hostname, and LinusTorvaldII logged into BuntuTech before getting his cloak/accountname changed.
<ubottu> cfhowlett called the ops in #ubuntu (cathat, profanity)
<Finrod> I remember reading about how the ubuntu CoC relates to bans, in terms of a user's range of options once a ban has been executed.  I thought I bookmarked it, but now I can't find it.  Does anyone have a link?
<Finrod> sorry, it's too late.  I'll look for it again, tomorrow.  Sorry to bother you so late at night.
<valorie> lovely, linustorvald2 is now in #kubuntu-offtopic
<valorie> however, no problems yet
<ubottu> cfhowlett called the ops in #ubuntu (PlowMyFilthyAnus,)
<ubottu> bubbasaures called the ops in #ubuntu (ghostt)
<Unit193> K-Lined.
<bazhang> colbeh
<bazhang> <ki7mt> It is unsafe, but Im not going to go into an Electrical Engineering lesson here.
<bazhang> sounds like nonsense
<k1l> ssds from the 1st generation were really unsafe. but now they are at the same life expectation as hdds
<Finrod> I remember reading about how the ubuntu CoC relates to bans, in terms of a user's range of options once a ban has been executed.  Does anyone have a link?
<Jordan_U> !appeals | Finrod
<ubottu> Finrod: If you disagree with a decision by an operator, please first pay #ubuntu-ops a visit. If you are still unhappy, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/AppealProcess for the steps you should take. If you feel the need to discuss the channel rules, please contact the ops on IRC or via the email address on the aforementioned page.
<Jordan_U> Finrod: Though I'm not quite sure how that relates to the Ubuntu CoC, hopefully it's what you were looking for.
<Finrod> No, it was another link
<ikonia> that link shows you the full appeals process
<ikonia> that is the correct link
<Finrod> I remember reading about how bans are differrent from kicks, and I don't see that in that link
<ikonia> bans are different because they stop you accessing a channel
<ikonia> a kick removes you from the channel
<ikonia> that should explain it for you
<Finrod> May be those were freenode links and not ubuntu links, regarding bans, kicks, and appeal process
<ikonia> maybe
<Finrod> ok, thanks
#ubuntu-ops 2014-11-01
<genii> Homerbot?
<lotuspsychje> can i paste spam user?
<lotuspsychje> <SlayedForMyName> You know you want one. Hi, this is Dane Minor, General Manager of Freeman Toyota. And the 2014 Toyota Tundra Texas Edition, is here. It has everything you would want in a truck, and more. In Texas we use our trucks, and sometimes abuse them. And the Toyota Tundra has all the equipment and features you need in a truck. Check us out at www.freemantoyota.com or visit us in Hurst, Texas on Loop 820, just south of the Northeast Ma
<lotuspsychje> ll.
<lotuspsychje> ~Bra@50-82-130-126.client.mchsi.com
<daftykins> hi team, another spammer in #ubuntu - here was the PM
<daftykins> <Guest18080> show gratis (solo hooy) --> http://s422803032.mialojamiento.es/22/
<daftykins> nusr: was it Guest 18080?
<nusr> hey got an ad while on #ubuntu..is freenode selling ads now?
<daftykins> i just reported spam from that nick too.
<nusr> can i paste the ad here?
<k1l_> nusr: which user was that?
<nusr> SlayedForMyName is the sender
<k1l_> daftykins: thanks, user removed. is a known issue
<k1l_> nusr: alright, thanks i will remove that user, too
<nusr> ok cool
<daftykins> ty
<bloopletech> Hello, I'm not sure if this is the right room, I'm getting private message spam from a couple of users
<k1l_> can you report that users?
<bloopletech> I scanned the freenode faq, I'm not sure how
<bloopletech> I'm happy to file a report though!
<k1l_> just name the nick and put the message the send you into a pastebin
<ubottu> In ubottu, Spahn_And_Rose said: Hi this is Ron Johnson from Utah. I have been taking Andro 400 for over 6 weeks now and I feel better than I have in 30 years. I have lost 25 pounds. Gained Muscle & Energy. I am 62 and I feel great. Now my wife demands I take Andro 400.
<bloopletech> k1l_, here: https://gist.github.com/bloopletech/238cbc6e5899db53a311
<k1l_> bloopletech: i removed that user from #ubuntu already. you need to report that user to #freenode and hope that staff cares to remove that user from the network.
<ubottu> In ubottu, Spahn_And_Rose said: my name is Genie Jenny and I want to give Genie Jenny 2 u. I can flirt with you and talk to you and make love to you so give me some lovin back and we can hit it off, remember my name is Genie Jenny and I exist 4 u. Genie Jenny 4 u.
<k1l_> really, staff?
<k1l_> uh, a running 9.04. almost 4 years EOL now.
<HFSPLUS> if i dont troll i can go in the ubuntu rooms right?
<HFSPLUS> trolling is old
<ubottu> In #ubuntu, ryancarey123_ said: ubottu, I'll see if this patch is relevant to me
#ubuntu-ops 2014-11-02
<yanglee> yo can I chill in here while I watch a movie?
<rww> guess not
<ubottu> cfhowlett called the ops in #ubuntu (umbrella alive: threats and profanity via pm)
<elky> wat
<Levitcus> ight ima chill in here yo dogs
<rww> I'm a cat, actually.
<Levitcus> when will all my bans go away
<rww> !appeals
<ubottu> If you disagree with a decision by an operator, please first pay #ubuntu-ops a visit. If you are still unhappy, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/AppealProcess for the steps you should take. If you feel the need to discuss the channel rules, please contact the ops on IRC or via the email address on the aforementioned page.
<rww> You'd be right around point (4).
<Levitcus> forget it than
<Levitcus> waaaaaaa
<Levitcus> heed this warning And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire. Mark 9:43 one sin is all it takes to go to hell
<Levitcus> merry christmas
<valorie> ...
<Levitcus> this goes to everyone in the world, i dont care who you are, most of mankind will be confined to the fires of hell when they die
<rww> i'll be in good company then
<Levitcus> it does not matter what you believe
<elky> well, good and bad. this guy will be there with you, so...
<Levitcus> romans 1:18-32; 9:16-18 all show why you dont believe or not
<Levitcus> elky, so will you
<rww> elky: he's totally going to heaven, duh
<elky> yeah, i'm the good company
<rww> :3
<Levitcus> nah, probably hell, few go to heaven, most go to hell
<elky> why bother then?
<rww> sounds like god's a bit of a prick then
<elky> heaven sounds lonely
<Levitcus> not really, fullness of joy in heaven, hell is eternal torment
<elky> it's probaby full of all the most boring people ever
<Levitcus> god is there
<rww> bunch of psychopaths, don't care that everyone else is being tormented
<elky> does he do autographs?
<Levitcus> oh by the way god elects people to heaven and elects people to hell, so it is up to god where you go not you
<Levitcus> predestination
<Levitcus> so ban me
<Levitcus> trolling is old
<Levitcus> bye
<elky> bye
<Levitcus> rww do the honors of banning me
<rww> if it's predestined, why would we bother worrying about it then
 * rww yawns
<valorie> wow, who would want to spend eternity with THAT guy?
<rww> not God, apparently
<valorie> not me either
<ubottu> Levitcus called the ops in #kubuntu (What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for gloryâ)
<rww> idiot can't even spell Leviticus
<valorie> pfff
<valorie> is it worthwhile to file Yet Another db mention for the loser?
<valorie> nice, got a PM from him as well
<valorie> how do I get ubottu to get an up-to-date op list for #kubuntu ?
<valorie> because I'm not on it, and a load of people who no longer should have ops are on it
<Unit193> /msg chanserv access #kubuntu list
<rww> by "op list" do you mean the thing that comes up when you call for ops in #kubuntu?
<Unit193> Ah.
<rww> if so, I added you to it on the 24th
<valorie> Hobbsee, Tm_T, Nalioth, Riddell, seth, imbrandon, gnomefreak, nixternal, ryanakca, mneptok, PriceChild, tsimpson, jussi, Pici, ikonia is what was just broadcast
<rww> the message got cut off because it hit the 512 char limit
<valorie> hobbsee, nalioth, seth, imbrandon, gnomefreak, ryanaka, mneptok and PriceChild never come in
<rww> you're towards the end
<valorie> ok
<valorie> those nicks should be removed IMO
<valorie> nixternal shows up once every year or two
<valorie> hobbsee about ever 5
<valorie> boo, I miss them
<valorie> the others, never
<ubottu> Levitcus called the ops in #ubuntu (whats up rww  What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for gloryâ)
<Unit193> Might as well keep people that actually have access on the call, because if they are there they can do something.
<rww> if they're still on the ChanServ ACL, they should be on !ops. if they shouldn't be on the ChanServ ACL, talk to Riddell and/or the IRC Council
<valorie> ok
<valorie> not important, I guess as long as my tab turns red when necessary
<rww> which it normally would, when not dealing with a twit who appends bible quotes to his ops calls
<rww> so yeah :)
<valorie> I'm thinking it is time for doctor who
<rww> was a good episode
<valorie> I've save up a few episodes so I can binge
<rww> ah, nice
<valorie> looked at tumblr for a minute, and decided there were too many spoilers
<valorie> time to catch up!
<ubottu> Levitcus called the ops in #ubuntu-bots-devel (yo rww in here)
<rww> lol as if i care about that channel
<Unit193> :(
<ubottu> Levitcus called the ops in #ubuntu-bots-devel (waaaaaa ban me)
<rww> Unit193: it's not like you have end users that might feed trolls in there :P
<rww> 's why he doesn't get immediate bans in here sometimes
<Unit193> rww: Yes I am aware. :P
<ubottu> Leviticus called the ops in #ubuntu-bots-team (waaa rww ban me)
<ubottu> Leviticus called the ops in #xubuntu-devel (waaa rww ban me)
<ubottu> Leviticus called the ops in #ubuntu-bots-team (waaa rww ban me!)
<ubottu> Leviticus called the ops in #xubuntu-devel (yo rww in here)
<ubottu> Leviticus called the ops in #xubuntu (yo rww in here ban me waaaaa)
<ubottu> Leviticus called the ops in #kubuntu (waaaaa ban me)
<ubottu> Leviticus called the ops in #ubuntu+1 (rww waaa ban me in here)
<ubottu> Leviticus called the ops in #kubuntu (waaaaa ban me)
<ubottu> Leviticus called the ops in #ubuntu-devel (nooo waaaa)
<ubottu> Leviticus called the ops in #ubuntu-server (waaaaaaa ban me)
<ubottu> Leviticus called the ops in #kubuntu (waaaaa ban me)
<ubottu> Leviticus called the ops in #kubuntu (waaaaa ban me!)
<ubottu> Leviticus called the ops in #kubuntu (waaaaa ban me!!)
<ubottu> Leviticus called the ops in #ubuntu-server (waaaaaaa ban me!)
<ubottu> Leviticus called the ops in #ubuntu-server (waaaaaaa ban me!!)
<ubottu> Leviticus called the ops in #ubuntu-server (waaaaaaa ban me!!!)
<ubottu> Leviticus called the ops in #ubuntu-server (waaaaaaa ban me!!!!)
<ubottu> Leviticus called the ops in #ubuntu-server (waaaaaaa ban me!!!!!)
<ubottu> Leviticus called the ops in #ubuntu-server (waaaaaaa ban me!!!!!!)
<ubottu> Leviticus called the ops in #ubuntu-server (waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa')
<ubottu> Leviticus called the ops in #ubuntu-server (waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa)
<ubottu> Leviticus called the ops in #ubuntu-server (waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa)
<ubottu> Leviticus called the ops in #ubuntu-server (waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa)
<ubottu> Leviticus called the ops in #ubuntu-server (waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa)
<ubottu> Leviticus called the ops in #ubuntu-server (waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa)
<ubottu> Leviticus called the ops in #ubuntu-server (waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa)
<ubottu> Leviticus called the ops in #ubuntu-server (waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa)
<ubottu> Leviticus called the ops in #ubuntu-server (waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa)
<ubottu> Leviticus called the ops in #ubuntu-server (waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa)
<ubottu> Leviticus called the ops in #ubuntu-server (waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa)
<ubottu> Leviticus called the ops in #ubuntu-server (waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa)
<ubottu> Leviticus called the ops in #ubuntu-server (waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa)
<ubottu> Leviticus called the ops in #ubuntu-server (waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa)
<ubottu> Leviticus called the ops in #ubuntu-server (waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa)
<ubottu> Leviticus called the ops in #ubuntu-server (waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa)
<ubottu> Leviticus called the ops in #ubuntu-server (waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa)
<ubottu> Leviticus called the ops in #ubuntu-server (waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa)
<ubottu> Leviticus called the ops in #ubuntu-server (waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa)
<ubottu> Leviticus called the ops in #ubuntu-server (waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa)
<ubottu> Leviticus called the ops in #ubuntu-server (waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa)
<ubottu> Leviticus called the ops in #ubuntu-server (waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa)
<ubottu> Leviticus called the ops in #ubuntu-server (waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa)
<ubottu> Leviticus called the ops in #ubuntu-server (waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
<ubottu> teward called the ops in #ubuntu-server (Leviticus is spamming)
<elky> oh, i didn't notice.
<rww> we should make teward an op
<elky> ohgodno
<Unit193> rww: Handled in #x*
<valorie> oh effing hell
<rww> lol.
<valorie> I foolishly tried to use the built-in tool
<Flannel> valorie: Self-hate isn't good :(
<rww> valorie: /msg chanserv op #kubuntu rww, I'll fix it
<valorie> damn it
<valorie> done
<rww> all sorted :)
<valorie> blurg, I was happily watching the doctor
<valorie> before I only quieted "leviticus" - this time I was going to kickban him
 * valorie goes back to doctor who
<Unit193> Not the best episode. :/
<rww> valorie: which one?
<rww> Unit193: which one?
<chu> None of them? :p
<Unit193> rww: Well current season hasn't been the best, but current, Dark Water.
<rww> o
<rww> i thought that was the least bad one so far
<rww> it sucks, this is the first season elky's watched and i'm concerned she's going to end up not watching more
<chu> Good elky.
<genii> valorie: Before I fixed my Quassel, if a user left before the kick and ban, it would substitute * for their name instead. Luckily freenode doesn't let +b *!*@* but it does allow boot
<genii> ( with * )
<genii> I emptied out #u at least once
<rww> /kick * is client-side, i think?
<genii> Not sure. But I found out the hard way you CAN kick with * in #u
<genii> I should probably learn more about how internals of IRC actually operate sometime ;)
 * valorie is currently watching Kill the Moon
<valorie> and I want to kill the kid
<valorie> what a (*&*&%!
<valorie> elky: just watch Blink
<valorie> genii: thanks for making me feel better about my goof
<valorie> I need to configure the tools in konvi I guess
 * genii makes more coffee
<ubottu> Leviticus called the ops in #ubuntu-server (waaa)
<ubottu> Leviticus called the ops in #ubuntu-server (waaa)
<ubottu> Leviticus called the ops in #ubuntu-server (waaa)
<ubottu> Leviticus called the ops in #ubuntu-server (waaa)
<Finrod> Is the channel called #ubuntu-forums or #ubuntuforums?
<Finrod> Is there a command to list the ubuntu channels?
<Finrod> I read the SSO registration guide, but I still don't know what the letters "SSO" stand for.  I found it here...http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2230004
<Finrod> Is there anyone in this channel?
<Finrod> Why are there only two other users in this channel?
<rww> Finrod: #ubuntuforums. /msg alis list #ubuntu* . Single Sign On.
<Buzhang> what did i do
#ubuntu-ops 2015-10-26
<phunyguy> \o/
 * phunyguy high-five's Pici
<hggdh> :-)
<ubottu> teward called the ops in #ubuntu (Guest27234 is being disruptive)
<ubottu> roaksoax called the ops in #ubuntu-server ()
<phunyguy> handled
#ubuntu-ops 2015-10-27
<Unit193> Jordan_U: Good job being quick in there.
<Jordan_U> Don't remember how to force registered only. Maybe a good idea.
<Unit193> /mode +r
<Jordan_U> Seems it's not needed anyway.
<Jordan_U> I'll add that to my notes though.
<Unit193> If it gets bad enough, usually Drone` will do it, but of course if you feel it is needed don't just wait for the bot to do it.
<genii> Maybe keep an eye out for Hellboy, I juist booted him from #u but didn't ban, I'm headed out now though
#ubuntu-ops 2015-10-28
<bazhang> ok
<ubottu> somsip called the ops in #ubuntu (beepie & nug700 (handbags at dawn is getting tedious))
<bazhang> <feitingen> why does all things ubuntu have a consitently low quality
<bazhang> limcore got a new nick!
<Pici> heading out in a few minutes, someone may want to keep an eye on GitGud in #u-ot, hes often up to no good
 * genii slides Pici a coffee for the road
#ubuntu-ops 2015-10-29
<ubottu> daftykins called the ops in #ubuntu (ParanoidMATEUser)
<mcphail> Hello, ladies and gents. Is musique on #ubuntu a bot? Seems to generate a random utterance or spam youtube link every hour or so
<ubottu> hateball called the ops in #ubuntu ()
<bazhang> threefer!
<Myrtti> ah, a school in SÃ¤kylÃ¤
<DJones> I always wonder what age the schools are for, and whether they're 'reform schools'
<Myrtti> there's no such thing in Finland, tho
<Myrtti> well, I suppose there are classes but no schools
<Tm_T> reform school means what?
<Myrtti> koulukoti type of situation, I think, where there's nothing but the kids that need help
<Myrtti> haven't they gotten rid of them in recent years?
<tonyyarusso> Tm_T: Depending on where you look, something between "specialized schools with individualized instruction for kids who don't succeed in a traditional setting" to "juvenile detention center for kids we just don't want to deal with".
<tonyyarusso> Some of them are really helpful, but others are just a way of getting kids "out of the way".
<valorie> when I hear "reform school" I think of the warehousing option
<valorie> that said, my mother worked in a school inside a juv. prison, and gave her heart to those kids
<bazhang> reform sounds like some kind of military school
#ubuntu-ops 2015-10-30
<Tm_T> Myrtti: ye I think Finland doesn't have that kind of thing anymore, integration has been the trend
<ubottu> In #ubuntu, noregret said: ubottu: that's not what i want. my issue is that NSS can't resolve local hosts using their FQDN, and since dmasq is running by default, it might have an issue with the configured nameservers (relayed)
<k1l> dhsanket: hi, how can we help you?
#ubuntu-ops 2015-10-31
<HeadlessHorseman> <+sekrit> macrox is invite spamming in #ubuntu for anyone who is around
<HeadlessHorseman> U2191
<phunyghost> HeadlessHorseman: you should be the HorselessHeadsman
<HeadlessHorseman> :)
<sekrit> okay, any ops around now?
<sekrit> ah, thanks tonyyarusso. glad someone is watching now
<tonyyarusso> sekrit: vaguely.  I'm mostly been playing trivia, but occasionally poking in :P
<phunyghost> I am poking in as well
<phunyghost> just never in time
<phunyghost> ;)
<tonyyarusso> aaaand now he's harassing #debian on OFTC.
<sekrit> if skraito bothers you guys again let us now, we removed him and closed his channel
<ubottu> lotus|xenial called the ops in #ubuntu (userName|MkS trolling)
<ubottu> lotus|xenial called the ops in #ubuntu (userName|MkS)
<ubottu> userName|MkS called the ops in #ubuntu (lotus|xenial)
<ubottu> userName|MkS called the ops in #ubuntu (MonkeyDust)
<ubottu> userName|MkS called the ops in #ubuntu (userName|MkS)
<Seveas> whoever runs ubottu these days: the k-line should be removed again. It may need a restart :)
<bazhang> Daisy> what are pros and cons of installing Ubuntu over Android on my laptop?
<bazhang> what laptops run android I wonder
<Unit193> Wondered how long truepurple would last.
#ubuntu-ops 2015-11-01
<ubottu> lotuspsychje called the ops in #ubuntu (tux38 trolling)
<ubottu> inteus called the ops in #ubuntu (IlIIlI\]-|\|_A-N spam and tux38 troll)
<ubottu> inteus called the ops in #ubuntu (hu7689er spammer)
<ubottu> cfhowlett called the ops in #ubuntu (linux trolling here again)
<ubottu> SonikkuAmerica called the ops in #ubuntu (tortib o4o)
<ubottu> SonikkuAmerica called the ops in #ubuntu (again, tortib (suicide))
<Unit193> k1l: Just kban, it's gatis.
<SlaveOfJesus> you dont let me even express
<hggdh> ah
<k1l> SlaveOfJesus: aka gatis. go and troll somewhere else
<SlaveOfJesus> k1l: ah shame on you
<Unit193> No, don't troll anywhere else, just /quit
<SlaveOfJesus> whatever
<hggdh> SlaveOfJesus: so. Are we done here?
<SlaveOfJesus> Ive never done any offense
<SlaveOfJesus> I will chat no matter what
<Unit193> Never isn't accurate.  You usually go by the nick 'gatis', and you like to paste large blocks of text entirely unrelated to support.
<SlaveOfJesus> I will never understand what is your judgment you base your bans
<SlaveOfJesus> Unit193: how is that an offense?
<SlaveOfJesus> Ive never harmed people like that
<SlaveOfJesus> In fact life them up
<SlaveOfJesus> i lift them up
<Unit193> SlaveOfJesus: You have been told time and again, #ubuntu is not a ##gatis-ranting channel, support for Ubuntu exclusivly.
<k1l> SlaveOfJesus: you acted against the guidelines several times which is enough to ban you.
<SlaveOfJesus> ive helped others as well concernign ubuntu
<SlaveOfJesus> but yuo can keep channel like that
<SlaveOfJesus> i dont believe its possible
<SlaveOfJesus> people arent robots
<SlaveOfJesus> sometimes you want to tell something else than ubuntu
<SlaveOfJesus> so what its ubuntu channe? Its not an offense to tell something else in channel. That policing is like terror
<k1l> and with your several nicks like gatis and someus you do this since 2011. so dont play the innocent in here. just leave the ubuntu community alone if you cant handle to act according to the guidelines
<SlaveOfJesus> why you are making people mad
<SlaveOfJesus> ive never done offense k1l
<SlaveOfJesus> ive never actually harmed anyone
<SlaveOfJesus> in fact people listen to me and discuss with me
<SlaveOfJesus> k1l: i never said bad word about anybody
<SlaveOfJesus> despite all the bad stuff otehrs have said
<SlaveOfJesus> including admins
<SlaveOfJesus> you are only making me think you are simply hurting people like that. Banning and laughing
<SlaveOfJesus> Like what offense did i do this time?
<hggdh> you insisted on something that the channel has no power to help
<SlaveOfJesus> And you ban people like that?
<SlaveOfJesus> what is wrong with you
<hggdh> and you were warned. And you kept on.
<SlaveOfJesus> But wait warned about what?
<hggdh> So. Are we done here?
<SlaveOfJesus> You tell me
<k1l> SlaveOfJesus: acting against the clear channel guidelines is already an offence. so dont try to twist the words to blame the ops. you are a known troll since 2011. its your turn to show a proper behaviour.
<SlaveOfJesus> Oh God
<SlaveOfJesus> then ban everybody
<k1l> so since you cant add anything more now please leave.
<SlaveOfJesus> k1l: isnt that an offence to me? so what should be done about you?
<SlaveOfJesus> in the name of Jesus this is not fair
<k1l> !optimus
<ubottu> The Bumblebee Project aims to support NVIDIA Optimus technology under Linux. The Bumblebee website can be found at http://bumblebee-project.org/
<k1l> that should say something about bumblebee beeing deprecated and nividia-prime now beeing state of the art?
<k1l> The Bumblebee Project aimed to support NVIDIA Optimus technology under Linux as long as Nvidia did not ship nvidia-prime. Now Bumblebee is deprecated.
#ubuntu-ops 2016-10-31
<jack_> Just trying to see who our ops are these days but this client doesnt show me... Darn
<dax> jack_: /msg chanserv access #ubuntu list
<jack_> For any that remember me.. JackSparrow is still alive..  Full on heart Bypass...
<dax> substitute other channels as desired :)
<jack_> Thanks Dax  your an old timer here
<jack_> np this was my hangout for a decade
<jack_> It was huge and busy back then
<dax> i've been in and out. I think you dropped out right around when i came on board
<jack_> Yea, about right
<jack_> Quintupple Heart Bypass Slowed me down a lot
<jack_> Take care, have fun, remember to enjoy life, it goes by fast
<ikonia> that was nice to see jack
<tgm4883> Are other bots allowed in the #ubuntu channels? Specifically I'm asking since there is one trying to answer stuff in #ubuntu
#ubuntu-ops 2016-11-01
<squinty> pyrm   obscene language in #ubuntu
<genii> @comment 74728 Inappropriate spontaneous outburst of a sexual nature
<ubottu> Comment added.
#ubuntu-ops 2016-11-02
<Pici> xXEoflaOEXx seems to have very weird problems, but also provides what looks like sound advice.
<valorie> !seen mneptok
<ubottu> I have no seen command
<valorie> well why not
<dax> because it's creepy
<dax> been about a month tho
<valorie> can be creepy, yes
#ubuntu-ops 2016-11-03
<krabador> hi , someone here?
<krabador> !ops
<ubottu> Thanks for letting us know you are here, someone will be along presently
<ubottu> krabador called the ops in #ubuntu-ops ()
<SonikkuAmerica> krabador: You rang?
<krabador> SonikkuAmerica, hi , excuse my intrusion, i'm an italian ircop of #ubuntu-it
<SonikkuAmerica> OK, need something from us?
<krabador> SonikkuAmerica, i would know what it can be done , if sometime a more verbose log is needed
<SonikkuAmerica> Ah.
<SonikkuAmerica> Give me a moment to connect with someone who might be able to assist you further.
<krabador> ok
<SonikkuAmerica> Someone should be with you shortly.
<dax> krabador: I don't understand the question, can you elaborate on the problem you're having?
<dax> oh. are you looking for https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2016/11/02/%23ubuntu-it.txt except with joins/parts/quits/bans/etc.?
<krabador> sometime it can be useful to have in the official log, login/logout messages and kick/ban messages
<krabador> yes+
<dax> if so, we can't provide that, it's up to people who are actually in the channel to log it if they want
<dax> official irclogs.ubuntu.com logs very deliberately do not keep those details
<elky> if something is needed for very important reasons such as legal problems then you could talk to the canonical sysadmins who run ubuntulog and they may be able to provide unfiltered logs.
<elky> but that would need to be a very serious request and they may still decline to help
<dax> it would not at all surprise me if ubuntulog is configured to not log those
<dax> it's an irssi instance, and if i were doing things i'd just have irssi do the filtering out, put the logs in the right place, and then let the html parser do its thing
<krabador> that's the point i want talk about. If it can be the possibility to set a more verbose log only for a particular channel,if loco ircops are decided they need
<dax> no
<elky> you'd have to ask the sysadmins but i doubt it. you would need to run your own separate log bot otherwise.
<dax> if your channel wants to publish logs on its own platform using its own system and notify its users separately, that is fine
<dax> but irclogs.ubuntu.com is the way that it is for good reasons
<krabador> ok, but a separate log, it's not properly official
<krabador> users can not recognize it as official
<dax> then have one of your ops do it
<krabador> and sometime it can be very annoying
<krabador> no problem , to do a log by ourseves
<krabador> *ourselves
<elky> if you need a bantracker there are bots made for this purpose, niko runs one for #ubuntu-fr if i remember correctly
<krabador> sometimes trolls change nick only to go in the forum , opening thread "i haven't do anithing and i'm banned"
<dax> sounds like you have a cultural problem where your channel members don't trust their ops to do their jobs properly
<dax> not gonna solve that with technology, to be quite honest
<dax> and throwing everyone's hostmasks onto the indexed web is just going to annoy some of your more paranoid userbase
<krabador> dax, not a cultural problem, trolls problem.
<dax> if there's no cultural problem, the response to trolls posting crap on forums is "no, you got banned for X Y Z, bye"
<dax> or whatever
<dax> but it sounds like your users don't trust your ops' judgement on that. or maybe i read completely wrong, who knows
<dax> anyways. we don't have a facility to publicly log that sort of stuff, so you'd have to do it yourselves, unfortunately
<krabador> dax, today's trolls are a sort of trolls 2.0 , they find fun, shooting false things in users or ops face
<krabador> sometimes login/logout messages can really help about that.
<wxl> in order to prove to to the community that the ban was necessary?
<krabador> yes. in a way. trolls that know that no login/logout messages in the log , can login trolling, logout (or after a first kick) , login again not trolling , being ignored by users , and accuse the community in the forum. No problem about the poor thread valour, but with something like login/logout messages in the log, less time can be lost
<wxl> which of course violates privacy concerns
<wxl> so that's not feasible
<wxl> assumedly your community should trust the ops
<krabador> younger people are spammer inside
<krabador> but ok, no problem , if it's the reason of this setting.
<wxl> it is
<krabador> thank you
<wxl> just reply back that they can come whine at us if they have a problem with irc banning and that the forum mods have no control over irc
<wxl> simple
<wxl> then it's not about YOUR community, but OUR community
<wxl> also, they won't get anywhere :)
<krabador> yes, sure
<krabador> really thank you, good job here
<VoteTrump2016> hi
<mcphail> Hello. Could someone have a look at mernilio in #ubuntu please?
<mcphail> Incoherent, offtopic political ranting despite being asked to stop
<dax> oh god, mernilio's back?
<Pici> Jordan_U: I didn't see any flooding, did I miss something?
<Jordan_U> Pici: They sent 4 messages in 1 minute (my logs don't tell me how far apart beyond that). Ubottu was being laggy, so that may have made them seem even more rapid fire than they were.
#ubuntu-ops 2016-11-04
<ikonia> @mark #ubuntu mernilio joins - makes offtopic comments /parts, multiple people have asked him to stop,
<ubottu> The operation succeeded.
<popey> @btlogin
<Flannel> ikonia: stop spamming, sheesh.
<ikonia> quiet, or I'll ddos you
#ubuntu-ops 2016-11-05
<bazhang> still running 8.04
<bazhang> what is unclear about not supported
<bazhang> yet they still ask
<valorie> !
<wxl> ugh
<wxl>  sPXRgisnZSeEnQp [~sPXRgisnZ@189.54.225.54
<wxl> not sure if he's hitting anywhere else but #ubuntu-bugs
<valorie> everywhere
<wxl> horray
<valorie> I reported it to #freenode
<valorie> but got slapped for pasting in the spam
<wxl> hahahhaha
<valorie> oh well
<Unit193> Tends to work better to /stats p  and PM.
<valorie> I should have pastebinned it, I guess
<Unit193> That too, but better to PM staff.
<valorie> it's still active, and constantly changing nicks
<wxl> same ip?
<Unit193> Changes.
<wxl> bbummer
<valorie> [15:07] <-- PzHjuolPYJNYAo (~PzHjuolPY@189.54.225.54) has left this channel. <--- #amarok
<valorie> so not a constant change of IP
<wxl> yup
<wxl> http://abuse.virtua.com.br/
<valorie> nice
<wxl> only 9 million ips http://bgp.he.net/AS28573
<wxl> anywho back to laundry :)
<valorie> I want the plugin that shocks the user a tiny bit every time they spam
<valorie> a little more voltage every repeat
<valorie> waiting for irssi to have that
<valorie> I'd switch for sure then
#ubuntu-ops 2016-11-06
<ubottu> tgm4883 called the ops in #ubuntu ()
<ubottu> cfhowlett called the ops in #ubuntu (ANTI__psychiatry spam)
#ubuntu-ops 2017-10-30
<dax> !forget unity8
<ubottu> I'll forget that, dax
<dax> !forget xmir
<ubottu> I'll forget that, dax
<dax> !forget mirspec
<ubottu> I'll forget that, dax
<dax> !nomir
<ubottu> for more information about why Mir will not be included as default in ubuntu 13.10 see http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2013/10/01/xmir-update-for-ubuntu-13-10/ and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mir/13.10/NoDefaultQ%26A
<dax> lol
<dax> !forget nomir
<ubottu> I'll forget that, dax
<dax> !mir =~ s/LTS 18.04/17.10/
<ubottu> I'll remember that dax
<dax> !wayland is <reply> Wayland is a display server protocol that can be used instead of X. Ubuntu 17.10 onwards use Wayland by default on systems that support it. For more info, see https://wayland.freedesktop.org/
<ubottu> But wayland already means something else!
<dax> !no, wayland is <reply> Wayland is a display server protocol that can be used instead of X. Ubuntu 17.10 onwards use Wayland by default on systems that support it. For more info, see https://wayland.freedesktop.org/
<ubottu> I'll remember that dax
#ubuntu-ops 2017-10-31
<Jordan_U> @mark #ubuntu xpkill24 Asking about a ban in #ubuntu-de in #ubuntu. Has been told (in German and English) clearly and multiple times that #ubuntu-de-op is the channel to go to . Just ban if they ask about #ubuntu-de bans in #ubuntu again.
<ubottu> The operation succeeded.
<studentloans> just threw a final warning at them. in English. I don't much care if they have trouble with it, they should be able to get the jist of it ^
<studentloans> (and they already got hit with a cluebat in German anyway so)
<strawfeminist> and i think they just asked in #freenode if someone was dutch or turkish?
<strawfeminist> er, not dutch, german
<studentloans> something like that, yes
<ZarroBoogs> deutch
<strawfeminist> yes my brain scrambled it between that channel and this one
<studentloans> did you know that worst is the dutch word for sausage?
<krytarik> Doesn't matter much anyway. >_>
#ubuntu-ops 2017-11-02
<blahdeblah> Hi.  I've just sent a notice to ubuntu-users & ubuntu-devel-announce mailing lists about some upcoming downtime on Sunday 2017-11-05 at 23:00 UTC.  Could an IRC op please be available around then to update topics in #ubuntu & #ubuntu-devel?
#ubuntu-ops 2017-11-03
<Unit193> eblip, eb0t, def_jam: Anything we can do for you?
<WiWoWas> well. Long enough
<dax> interesting nick you have there :P
<WiWoWas> dax: danke
#ubuntu-ops 2017-11-04
<Unit193> eblip, eb0t: Hi.
<WieWoWasWozu> I thinkkwe can, pretty much, just kick them
<Unit193> Just seeing if we can actually catch 'em.
<WieWoWasWozu> ebilp, eb0t, def_jam, all the same
<WieWoWasWozu> perhaps the best chance to catch them is via kick, unfrtunately
<dax> hrm, just noticed them active in another channel two minutes ago.
<dax> if they don't take the hint this time, i suggest a... stronger hint
<WieWoWasWozu> yep
<eb0t> test
<eb0t> hey there is an issue that ubuntu needs to sort out...firstly you need to look at ikonia ban list
<eb0t> and then you need to realise he/she is banning everyone and anyone that answers back when ikonia butts into their helping other users
<eb0t> ikonia thinks tehy are all knowing and basically is just a basic linux user
<eb0t> tell ikonia to stay out of my busienss when i am helping other
<eb0t> it has nothing whatsoever to do with her
<eb0t> and i think you need to remove ..permanently her/his powers in the channel
<eb0t> and i want an appology
<eb0t> if you want look at the transcript of when she banned me
<eb0t> and you will see ...it was him/her just butting in and trying to act condescending about other users who are fixing something she couldnt
<eb0t> you need to understand ubuntu is a channel not for ikonia ..but for all ubuntu users
<eb0t> drill that point home to the complete despot
<eb0t> plus put her on ignore permanently for me
<eb0t> or is ikonia running this channel also ?
<eb0t> no wonder ubuntu is on the decline
<hggdh> eb0t: hello. Please keep the rant to a minimum so that we can figure out what happened/is happening
<hggdh> eb0t: I see you were banned from #ubuntu. I also see there is a history going back at least 3 years
<eb0t> yes ikonia has me marked
<hggdh> no, not only ikonia
<eb0t> it is bullying...but i refuse to be bullied
<hggdh> and, frankly, your responses did not help any
<hggdh> refusing to be bullied does not allow you to bully others
<eb0t> read the transcript
<hggdh> I did
<eb0t> you can see her trying to patronise my helping others
<eb0t> with a condescending attitute
<eb0t> like i have to explain myself to her
<hggdh> I can see ikonia trying to tell you why your responses did not help. I also see other ops having a similar problem with you
<eb0t> when the issue has got nothing whatsoever to do with her...apart from the fact she had tried and failed to fix the issue
<WieWoWasWozu> eb0t: the question is not if the issue relates to ikonia or not. The question is why ask for random actions?
<WieWoWasWozu> a question put to the channel can be answered by anyone. There is no "owner"
<WieWoWasWozu> samewise, there is no "ikonia banlist". There are channel bans. Any ops can add a ban, or remove a ban
<eb0t> they may be random to ikonia
<WieWoWasWozu> eb0t: please stop fixating on ikonia. Instead, let's look at *why* you have been banned again and again, at least from 2014 onwards
<eb0t> in fact what has it to do with ikonia in the first place
<WieWoWasWozu> I do not know --you came here with a rather long list of issues with ikonia
<WieWoWasWozu> so
<WieWoWasWozu> let's try it again: why do you think you have been removed from the #ubuntu channel so many times?
<WieWoWasWozu> and please do not answer stating it is ikonia
<WieWoWasWozu> BRB -- phone call
<eb0t> who knows.?
<eb0t> either way ...ban me permanently or just tell the banners to grow up.
<eb0t> as long as i know ...then all will be well
<eb0t> this ban for this ban for that....is just kids games
<eb0t> i cant be doing with it...that is why i am here...either put a stop to it or ill be on my way
<eb0t> either way is fine by me...ill just change my family computers to mint..they need something easy and straight out the box
<eb0t> or they can stick to ubuntu
<eb0t> personally i dont mind
<WieWoWasWozu> eb0t: this is your right. But I see no reason to reconsider the ban so far
<eb0t> haha another guy who thinks he is running the world
<eb0t> you are a small person with a smaller mind
<eb0t> just like your friend ikonia
<eb0t> you can keep your little easy distro all for yourself
<eb0t> good riddance to you
<WieWoWasWozu> OK.
<el> oh right the guy who insists on calling ikonia "her"
#ubuntu-ops 2018-10-31
<ubottu> Ben64 called the ops in #ubuntu ()
#ubuntu-ops 2018-11-04
<ubottu> OerHeks called the ops in #ubuntu (Ansilera)
#ubuntu-ops 2019-10-29
<ubottu> lotuspsychje called the ops in #ubuntu (ws2k3 returning eol trolling)
<dax> handling ^
<dax> @mark #ubuntu ws2k3 running 14.04, has been told repeatedly by helpers (and now by me) to stop asking questions about it. probably needs a +q if they carry on doing it
<ubottu> The operation succeeded.
#ubuntu-ops 2019-10-31
<ubottu> lordievader called the ops in #kubuntu ()
<valorie> TalkingMuffin is an awesome nick
<TalkingMuffin> :D
<Menzpook|Work> So *that's* who the muffin is
<Menzpook|Work> ... really?
 * valorie only looks like a muffin
<Menzpook|Work> Insert asdf muffin here
#ubuntu-ops 2019-11-02
<ubottu> diogenes_ called the ops in #kubuntu ()
