#ubuntu-motu 2005-12-12
<\sh> grrrr
<Kyral> Either they took down my ban or my Hostmask allowed me in ;P
<ogra> nobody is banned here
<Kyral> in #ubuntuforums
<ogra> ah
* seth_k|lappy tries to get into the forums
<seth_k|lappy> I'm still banned
<ogra> why do they ban people there ?
<Kyral> the Arnieboy issue
<seth_k|lappy> for disagreeing :P
<ogra> tsk
<seth_k|lappy> Kyral, shush! Amaranth is handling my banning thingy
<Kyral> oh seth_k|lappy I changed my LP name to Kyral
<Kyral> oh lol
<Kyral> sorry
<seth_k|lappy> don't you make a fuss about it
<seth_k|lappy> jiminy
<seth_k|lappy> last thing I need is for them to actually have a reason
<Kyral> so if its now to https://launchpad.net/people/kyral my ubuntu.com redirect should change to kyral soon?
<seth_k|lappy> supposedly
<Kyral> kk
<seth_k|lappy> sweet: [17:45]  <FLeiXiuS> Were not under the CoC, nor do we give a shit about the CC in here..
<Kyral> I countered don't worry
<seth_k|lappy> goes to show how much the forums are part of Ubuntu
<minghua> seth_k|lappy: is said FLeiXiuS an moderator inn forums?
<minghua> s/inn/in/
<Kyral> yah
<Kyral> he is
<Kyral> I loved that
<Kyral> they banned my old hostmask
<seth_k|lappy> minghua, yes http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=26
<Kyral> I popped back in said, "May want to try the cloak" and left ;D
<seth_k|lappy> the guy sucks at banning
<seth_k|lappy> if you changed your identd name, you could get back in
<Kyral> No
<Kyral> that would be intentional ban evasion
<Kyral> this time was an accident
<seth_k|lappy> may I remind, "they're not under the CoC" :P
* seth_k|lappy is going to go put that quote on the CCAgenda
<minghua> seth_k|lappy: the situation of forums is apparently worse than I thought
* minghua is sad
<sistpoty> hi folks
<minghua> hi sistpoty
<Kyral> Should I wage war with my Forums account or just keep helping people
<seth_k|lappy> Kyral, the users are obviously the important part
<Kyral> Agreed
<Kyral> I shall keep my normal Forum duties
<seth_k|lappy> minghua, I'm banned on the forums because I, like Ubuntu, think that the principles of free software are good
<seth_k|lappy> Kyral, what's the command to toggle your cloak on/off
<Kyral> seth_k|lappy: you "unidentify" from NickServ
<minghua> seth_k|lappy: I read the logs of CC meeting today, and saw that ubuntugeek (is he/she the founder of ubuntu forums) pretty sad with the current situation
<seth_k|lappy> minghua, he's the founder... but I think the only thing he's sad about is that the CC "interferes" in the forums.
<seth_k|lappy> minghua, he talked about shutting the forums down (thinly veiled threat)
<minghua> seth_k|lappy: I was thinking the problem of forums is just misinformed users, now it seems some moderators are misinformed as well
<seth_k|lappy> Kyral, unidentify and then reID?
<Kyral> no
<Kyral> the Cloak is tied to your NickServ login
<Kyral> just changing to an unregistered nick
<minghua> seth_k|lappy: what was ubuntugeek's opinion?  does he want CC to be involved in the conflicts in forums or not?  my reading is that he wants CC involved as arbitrator.
<seth_k|lappy> minghua, my reading was that he wanted the CC to bugger off
<seth_k|lappy> let me read it again
<seth_k|lappy> have the link handy?
<sistpoty> ping azeem
<azeem> hi
<minghua> seth_k|lappy: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-meeting-2005-12-06.html
<sistpoty> hi azeem
<sistpoty> azeem: you maintain mopac7 as well?
<azeem> yes
<azeem> it used to be included in the ghemical source tree, but they split it out for 1.90, so I packaged it as well
<sistpoty> azeem: it won't build on ia64 :/... iirc debian is affected as well, just in case you haven't noticed yet
<azeem> hrm
<seth_k|lappy> minghua, here is his opinion: "well i am tired of this bullshit surrounding the forums and the ubuntu community and the community council.. I am seriously considering terminating the project or removing the official status it has. i find it hard to accept the CC an make any rules or decisions when they dont even visit the forums"
<sistpoty> azeem: yep... build from nov28 failed... same prob on the ubuntu buildd... and I don't have a clue at all :(
<azeem> huh, wow
<azeem> yeah, vorlon and neuro discussed this earlier
<azeem> I saw it, but didn't realize it was about mopac
<minghua> seth_k|lappy: I _think_ he meant the CC should perticipate in the forums then make decisions, not just asking for links and listen to arguments from both sides in IRC meetings as CC is doing now
<azeem> 10:47 < vorlon> anyone care to take a crack at this ia64 build failure, tied into the latest C++ transition?
<azeem>                 http://buildd.debian.org/fetch.php?pkg=mopac7&arch=ia64&ver=1.10-1&stamp=1133225861&file=log
<azeem> 10:49 < neuro> try -O3 ?
<azeem> 10:49 < neuro> binutils/compiler bug
<azeem> 10:50 < vorlon> one that requires raising the optimization level? eep
<azeem> 10:50 < vorlon> hmm, I guess it's building with gcc-3.4; wonder what the reason is for that
<azeem> 10:50 < neuro> raising the optimization level might make things small enough that you don't exceed the size for GPREL22
<azeem> 10:51 < vorlon> ok
<azeem> 10:51 < neuro> that would be the first thing to fix, the problem may just go away then
<azeem> -O3 didn't work, though
<sistpoty> wow, what a crack *g*
<azeem> http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=17224
<Ubugtu> gcc bug #17224: [3.4/4.0 Regression] : relocation truncated to fit: GPREL22 Product: gcc, Component: target, Severity: minor, Assigned to: rth@gcc.gnu.org, Status: RESOLVED, Resolution: FIXED http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=17224
<sistpoty> azeem: why is mopac7 built with gcc-3.4?
<azeem> due to that fortran->c stuff
<Kyral> a lot of KDE Packages coming down the pipe
<Kyral> Maybe I can finally install Kubuntu-Desktop
<sistpoty> azeem: ah, I see
<azeem> sistpoty: libg2c0 is from gcc-3.4, and I believe it does not exist for gcc-4.0 anymore (similar to g77)
<azeem> I could be wrong of course
<raphink> anybody would like to try a lamp metapackage and let me know if it works ?
<Kyral> raphink: I think Seveas has one...
<raphink> Kyral: really,
<Seveas> yeah
<sistpoty> azeem: it is... iirc I took a glimpse if this could be avoided, but it seems that then all fortran libs needed to be recompiled with gfortran instead of g77
<raphink> ?
<raphink> maybe we could compare
<raphink> Seveas: wanna see mine and you can give me yours
<Kyral> Seveas: I've been meaning to ask what that has in it
<raphink> .?
<Seveas> raphink, seveas.ubuntulinux.nl/pool/seveas-meta
<azeem> sistpoty: yeah, there is no policy in place for gfortran if I understood doko correclty
<raphink> ok thanks
<Seveas> http://seveas.ubuntulinux.nl/pool/seveas-meta/seveas-meta/lamp (to be precise)
<sistpoty> azeem: k, thx
<Kyral> hmm Seveas you should submit that to the Universe
<Kyral> it would help a lot I think
<raphink> Seveas: we do not have the same goal in a lamp meta I think ;)
<Seveas> Kyral, no, I discussed metapackages a few times before and it was rejected
<seth_k|lappy> Seveas, phpmyadmin instead of, say, mysql-query-browser? are you specifically wanting a web-based admin tool?
<Kyral> ah okay
<Seveas> lamp does not mean the same for everyone
<Seveas> {linux,bsd,solaris}{apache,lighttpd}{mysql,postgres,sqlite}{php,perl,python,ruby}
<Seveas> seth_k|away, it is just an example package
<raphink> Seveas: no I mean my goal is to have a set up LAMP, not merely a list of package
<Seveas> raphink, what more do you need to set it up?
<raphink> wait a min i'll show you
<Seveas> an evil postinst that will 100% guaranteed bork on upgrades?
<seth_k|lappy> Seveas also, do you know anything about the status of the cloak on my nick yet?
<raphink> an evil postinst that prevents users from having to edit apache2.conf and ln -s php*.load
<raphink> which is what most people want
<Seveas> seth_k|away, should be set already
<Seveas> raphink, eep
<Seveas> that's bad
<Seveas> that's what a2enmod is for
<Seveas> and the php postinst does an a2enmod for php
<raphink> yes
<raphink> maybe
<raphink> but I believe if it's well done it can be good
<Seveas> lemme see your postinst :)
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> it's just a mockup
<raphink> Seveas: http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/451767
<raphink> very basic
<raphink> i'm afraid the php package doesn't set apache2 right
<raphink> although I agree it should
<raphink> at least libapache2-mod-php4
<Seveas> I never needed to do these actions
<raphink> I did
<raphink> on all the machines I installed a LAMP on
<raphink> on ubuntu that is
<Seveas> a2enmod does that
<raphink> php wouldn't activate by itself
<Seveas>  php{4,5}.conf has that apache config part
<raphink> neither the AddType, nor the ln -s
<Seveas> and php{4,5}.load has the LoadModule
<raphink> well then the a2enmod doesn't work in libapache2-mod-php* ,I guess
<Seveas> it works fine for me on hoary and breezy
<Seveas> you only have to restart apache afterwards
<raphink> nope
<Seveas> and doing that in the postinst of the metapackage is very icky
<raphink> I had to do these two changes manually
<raphink> I agree it's weird to do it in the postinst of a metapackage but it just didn't set on any of the system I installed a LAMP on
<sistpoty> what if s.o. purges the lamp?
<sistpoty> +package
<Seveas> ghe
<Seveas> the postinst of php5 does both a2enmod AND reloads apache
<raphink> not the one in php4
<Seveas> http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/5469
<Seveas> im pretty sure it does
<raphink> http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/451772
<raphink> it almost does nothing
<Seveas> it does
<Seveas> http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/5470
<Seveas> your version is the postinst from the source
<raphink> what postinst is taht?
<Seveas> look at the postinst in the package
<Seveas> that is php4 from the deb
<raphink> ?
<Seveas> in the source you miss a lot, that's what debhelper adds
<Seveas> #
<Seveas> # dh_installdeb will replace this with shell code automatically
<Seveas> #
<Seveas> # generated by other debhelper scripts.
<Seveas> #
<Seveas> 
<Seveas> #
<raphink> hmm ok
<Seveas> #DEBHELPER#
<Seveas> and guess what: that part does all the magic
<raphink> yes
<Seveas> so you don't need to do ANYTHING manually
<raphink> I have _exactly_ the same postinst in the deb
<raphink> in breezy that is
<raphink> I don' tsee where you see this long postinst :(
<Seveas> that is weird, which version us that
<raphink> where do you find these?
<Seveas> libapache2-mod-php4_4%3a4.4.0-3_i386.deb
<raphink> ooooh
<raphink> so you're nto talking about php4 pacakges
<Seveas> well duh
<raphink> but about libapache2-mod-php4
<Seveas> for apache you need libapache2-mod-php{4,5}
<raphink> yes
<Seveas> the php package itself should do nothing about apache config
<raphink> heh it's 1:35 AM
<Seveas> it would be very strange if it did
<raphink> does a2enmod remove the # before the AddType too?
<Seveas> no
<Seveas> the AddType is done by a *separate config file*
<Seveas> php4.conf
<raphink> hmmm
<Seveas> which a2enmod symlinks (and your postinst not)
<Seveas> conclusion: for a complete lamp setup you only need to install packages :)
<Seveas> and set a mysql password (but you don't want that in a postinst)
<raphink> I'm sorry but
<raphink> I ran dpkg-reconfigure libapache2-mod-php4
<raphink> and I still have no php module in /etc/apache2/mods-enabled/
<Seveas>       7 if [ "$1" != "configure" ] ; then
<Seveas>       8     exit 0
<Seveas>       9 fi
<Seveas> the postinst only does that when installing
<raphink> well how come they were not present when I installed them then?
<Seveas> dunno, somthing borked I guess
<raphink> yes I guess
<raphink> I have to find that out and file a bug I guess
<raphink> it's not the first time it happens to me
<raphink> just removed it and reinstalled it
<ajmitch> you have looked in the right postinst, right?
<raphink> and it's not there
<Seveas> did you purge it too?
<sistpoty> is colin@colino.net here?
<sistpoty> hey ajmitch
<ajmitch> hello sistpoty
* sistpoty hopes to make it to school on saturday
<sistpoty> ;)
<raphink> hmm
<raphink> then there's phpmyadmin that doesn't want to be removed
* ajmitch will be hiding in bed
<sistpoty> hehe
<ajmitch> raphink: no kidding, blame me
<ajmitch> you need to install another package to get it to uninstall cleanly :)
<raphink> ajmitch : why?
<raphink> which package ajmitch?
<ajmitch> because it needed to build on the older yada right before release, which broke removal
<ajmitch> but it let the security fix build
<raphink> ...
<raphink> Seveas: do you plan on getting your package in universe?
<Seveas> raphink, not a chance that it'll be accepted
<ajmitch> raphink: make sure debconf is installed (it should be)
<raphink> ajmitch ok
<raphink> sure it is
* ajmitch can't recall which other package it was
<ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/phpmyadmin/+bug/4200 for the ubuntu bug, fyi
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4200: failure to source /usr/share/debconf/confmodule in phpmyadmin.prerm causes package removal to fail In: phpmyadmin (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/4200
<raphink> ok
<ajmitch> ah, make sure that ucf is installed
<raphink> hmm ok
<raphink> I don't need to remoev it right now though ;)
<ajmitch> ok..
* ajmitch looks around for whoever packaged kino
<ajmitch> ah, ogra
<ogra> whats wrong ?
<ajmitch> it doesn't install, file conflicts with older kino-dvtitler
<ogra> oops
<ogra> i'll fix that tomorrow
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> thanks :)
<ogra> or feel free if you like ;)
<ogra> s/if you like/if its urgent/
* ajmitch would need to be able to test it
<ajmitch> it's not urgent, I don't exactly use it
<ogra> i cant test it either ...
<ajmitch> trying to overwrite `/usr/lib/kino-gtk2/libdvtitler.so.0.0.0', which is also in package kino-dvtitler
<ajmitch> looks like it shouldn't try to install this file
<ogra> yup
<ogra> it just needs a Replaces line
<ajmitch> ok
<ogra> there are more plugins they merged in 0.8.0
<ajmitch> ah that's good
<ogra> i'll have to look into it ... for now i just needed to close the merge bug, we want to run MOM again ...
<ajmitch> that's fine
<ajmitch> I can look tonight if you want
<ogra> ... that only works if all merge bugs are closed ..
<sistpoty> ogra: mom will run again?
<LaserJock> azeem: ping?
* ajmitch hasn't been assigned any merge bugs in main
<ogra> sistpoty, if we have time left
<ogra> sistpoty, main had dealine last thursday for merges
<sistpoty> ogra: no need to hurry with merge bugs though... current merge list doesn't cover all mom runs yet, but I already figured how to find out what needs to be touched again
<ajmitch> if it does run again, feel free to assign me some merge bugs :)
<sistpoty> ajmitch: I can make assign all merge bugs to you ;)
<sistpoty> (but not write correct english)
<ogra> ajmitch, i ususally have only a small amount ... Riddell is the one who suffers from merges
<ajmitch> sistpoty: I should clear up all the zope bugs in a day or two
<ogra> ajmitch, i guess he's grateful for every of his merge bugs you grab
<ajmitch> there's only 40 of them, all alike
<sistpoty> ajmitch: cool
<azeem> LaserJock: pong
<ajmitch> a few minutes per zope package is needed :)
<ajmitch> http://ajmitch.meta.net.nz/debuild/ubuntu/merge-tool/current/merges
<ajmitch> I still see a few from an up-to-date comparison
<LaserJock> azeem: found another bug in ghemical :(
<sistpoty> ajmitch: how did you build that comparison list? because i'll be in need to find out current dapper/unstable versions for updating the merge-list
<azeem> LaserJock: :(
<LaserJock> azeem: should I try reporting to debian BTS? or should I just email the ghemical-devel ML?
<ajmitch> sistpoty: an old script of mine - it loads the debian & dapper sources & does a compare for each package :)
<ajmitch> I should rewrite it for python-apt
<azeem> LaserJock: I think it would be best to record it in some bug tracker as well, like the BTS or malone
<sistpoty> ajmitch: can it be easily adopted to just spit out unstable-version/dapper version for a given sourcepackage? (and may I eventually reuse that?)
<LaserJock> azeem: I will do it in malone if that's ok with you. I'm not yet comfortable with the Debian bts yet.
<azeem> ok
<ajmitch> sistpoty: of course
<sistpoty> ajmitch: cool
<ajmitch_> Loaded
<ajmitch_> treecc is at version 0.3.6-2 in Debian
<ajmitch_> treecc is not in Dapper
<ajmitch_> treecc is at version 0.3.6-2 in DpUniverse
<ajmitch_> (not in Dapper means not in main)
<sistpoty> ajmitch: rock! thx in advance :)
<azeem> ajmitch_: you should get banned for saying that in here
<ajmitch> azeem: probably
<azeem> and I should sleep, laters
<ajmitch> night
<sistpoty> good night azeem
* ogra follows up
<ogra> night all
<sistpoty> gn8 ogra
<ajmitch> night ogra
* poningru gives \sh_away a big hug
<raphink> how do I set the chmod for some files in a package?
<raphink> i've seen that in some packages but can't remember how
<minghua> raphink: I know one way to do it is using install with -m options
<raphink> yes I knwo that
<minghua> raphink: depending on what you need, dh_fixperms is probably good enough
<raphink> can I use it in an install file?
<raphink> I need to set the permissions of 6 files in particular
<raphink> among all
<raphink> they need special rights
<minghua> raphink: Hmm, what's wrong with chmod in debian/rules?
* ajmitch usually just does chmod
<raphink> nothing's wrong
<raphink> I just have to fine where to put it
<raphink> and if I put it in build:: or install::
<ajmitch> ah, cdbs?
<raphink> then it's overridden by dh_fixperms
<raphink> yep
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> so i'm wondering if there's a section where I can put it
<raphink> so it is executed after the fixperms
<ajmitch> an example
<ajmitch> binary-post-install/gnue-common:: chmod 0755 debian/gnue-common/usr/lib/gnue/python/gnue/common/printing/pdftable/sample.py
<ajmitch> except it's on 2 separate lines
<ajmitch> irssi didn't really want to cooperate in pasting ;)
<raphink> so you put it in binary-post-install
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> ;)
<minghua> raphink: sounds like you need the -X option for dh_fixperms
<ajmitch> yes, I did put in in binary-post-install::
<raphink> I can't change fixperms directly minghua as long as i'm using cdbs
<ajmitch> isn't cdbs obvious? ;)
<raphink> ajmitch my package is arch indep
<minghua> raphink: I see.  sorry I've never used cdbs
<raphink> should I put it in binary-* still?
<ajmitch> so is mine
<raphink> good for you minghua :)
<raphink> ok :)
<raphink> i'll try that
<raphink> thanks a lot
<raphink> :)
<ajmitch> cdbs is often a bit of black magic though
<tseng> a bit
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> just a bit ;)
* ajmitch wonders if networkmanager will be ready for dapper
<sistpoty> it's not black magic... it's only makefile magic (but i guess that's black too) ;)
<ajmitch> sistpoty: having to read cdbs source to follow what is going on is bad enough
<sistpoty> hehe ajmitch, I tried once... but gave up pretty fast
* ajmitch has done it a few times
<raphink> argh
<raphink> I put it in binary-post-install
<raphink> but it is still run before fixperms
<raphink> argh
<ajmitch> really?
<raphink> yes
<raphink> justa  bit before
<raphink> well i'll look at that tomorrow
<raphink> i'm too tired right now
<minghua> debhelper is enough black magic for me :-)
<raphink> thanks for your help ajmitch
<ajmitch> maybe use DEB_FIXPERMS_EXCLUDE as well
<raphink> hmmm
<raphink> I'll see about that
<ajmitch> note that mine was binary-post-install/packagename::
<raphink> but not now
<ajmitch> not sure if that's needed  :)
<raphink> now is bed time
<raphink> yes I noted that ajmitch
<raphink> and did the same
<ajmitch> binary-fixup/packagename:: might be more useful
<sistpoty> gnight raphink
<ajmitch> since your rule should run after cdbs' rule
<raphink> thanks
<raphink> I'll try that and then go to bed
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> if not, then the last rule is binary-predeb :)
<raphink> that's my last attempt for tonight
<raphink> good to know :)
<raphink> good
<raphink> fixup runs after dh_fixperms :)
<ajmitch> great
<raphink> so it should work
<ajmitch> my package didn't fit fixperms, I think
<ajmitch> s/fit/hit/
<raphink> :)
<raphink> mhm
<raphink> yes
<seth_k|lappy> Cheers Seveas, the cloak works now :) Thanks again
<ajmitch> sistpoty: we need to update trac on tiber
<sistpoty> ajmitch: go ahead if you want ;)
<sistpoty> ajmitch: i guess it's affected by security probs?
<ajmitch> sistpoty: well, I could grab the package from debian
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> or I could try & hammer out a security update for breezy as well
<ajmitch> http://packages.qa.debian.org/t/trac/news/1.html
<ajmitch> we've got 0.8.4, so backporting a fix will be fun
<sistpoty> hm... /me doesn't really have a clue bout trac :(
<sistpoty> iirc mbreit helped setting up trac on tiber, but unfortunately he hasn't been around for quite some time
<ajmitch> neither do I ;)
<sistpoty> can new upstream versions go into -security?
<ajmitch> maybe
<ajmitch> we'd have to ask pitti
<bmonty> hey LaserJock
* sistpoty takes a look at the search function of trac
<LaserJock> hi bmonty, how's it going>
<bmonty> great, how about you?
<LaserJock> bmonty: well, I got membership early this morning
<sistpoty> congrats LaserJock
<bmonty> awesome, congrats!
<LaserJock> thanks sistpoty and bmonty
* Kyral sighs and falls to his knees
* ajmitch didn't get anything this morning
<LaserJock> hi macgyver2
<Kyral> why can't they see...
<macgyver2> hi LaserJock
<seth_k|lappy> Kyral, your enthusiasm will get you nowhere. Wait for someone who can actually do something about it, e.g. the CC, to intervene
<LaserJock> ajmitch: dholbach didn't give you a hug this morining? ;-)
<Kyral> no....
<Kyral> The CC will do no good this time....
<ajmitch> LaserJock: no :(
<Kyral> KB is dead set on breaking away
<ajmitch> Kyral: maybe you need to have #ubuntu-forums
<Kyral> No...I will not let another Split happen...
<Kyral> this cannot happen again...not again...
<bmonty>  what are you talking about?
<ajmitch> instead of -motu being the forum metadiscussion channel
<Kyral> I've lived through a split like this...before...
<ajmitch> as fun as it is to hear all the juicy forums gossip from the sidelines, it's probably wandering a bit OT
<Kyral> sorry...
<ajmitch> that's ok
<Kyral> its my emotions acting up
<ajmitch> understandable
<bmonty> at least it isn't your herpes :)
<lifeless> waassup
<bmonty> hey lifeless
<sistpoty> ajmitch: from the short glimpse at trac, there is no easy way of backporting the security fix...
<sistpoty> ajmitch: and (though I can't say I understand all the black magic in there) I believe, that the "fix" might still be vulnerable to some attacks... but I wouldn't guarantee that ;)
<seth_k|lappy> Kyral, tell me what KB said on #ubuntu-offtopic or via query, if you would
<Kyral> seth_k|lappy: I can mirror the convo to you
<seth_k|lappy> thanks Kyral
<seth_k|lappy> pastebin is fine, or e-mail seth [@]  ubuntu.com, or whatever
<ajmitch> afternoon lifeless
<bmonty> ajmitch: on the filelight package do you think the original source package mismatch between ubuntu and debian should be documented?
<ajmitch> perhaps
<ajmitch> lifeless: I noticed that bazaar.launchpad.net is 403 now for the index page?
<bmonty> bascially somethine like "the original source packages differ so this is a merge instead of a sync"
<lifeless> ajmitch: bazaar.launchpad.net is a new site
<lifeless> ajmitch: no content yet until the bzr pull branches are working
<Kyral> seth_k|lappy: I'll send you a log
<ajmitch> right, I saw 2 entries there when you originally showed it to me
<Kyral> I think its done
<Kyral> seth_k|lappy: you want the logfile?
<ajmitch> and all is right with the world?
<Kyral> no...
<seth_k|lappy> Kyral, yes please
<Kyral> I tried my best...
* Kyral sighs
<ajmitch> and there's too much anger there :)
<seth_k|lappy> ajmitch, it won't be right with the world until the forums are either run by Canonical or destroyed :P
<Kyral> He is claiming that someone from the Officials DDOS'd him
<seth_k|lappy> anyways Kyral as previously stated, this is OT, so move it somewhere else ;) (but send me that log)
<Kyral> seth_k|lappy: feel free to PM me
* ajmitch is interested in the saga still :)
<Kyral> yah my forwarding hasn't been changed yet soio....don't reply to kyral@ubuntu.com
<seth_k|lappy> ajmitch, in this channel?
<seth_k|lappy> cos I'd be happy to regale you :P
<ajmitch> not here
<Kyral> hmm, neither are up lol
<Kyral> neither petermcv@ubuntu.com nor kyral@ubuntu.com work
<Kyral> seth_k|lappy: how long did it take for your change to work?
<minghua> still talking about the forum thing?
* minghua is actually interested as well :-)
<Kyral> Jeez you want me to email the log over the MOTU ML?
<ajmitch> no
<Kyral> now I'm wondering how long it will take my @ubuntu.com to change to kyral
<minghua> Kyral: no, but if convenient, please send the log to minghua@rice.edu, thanks
<Kyral> seth_k|lappy: log?
<Kyral> err
<Kyral> email?
<ajmitch> Kyral: yep, you know my address, send the file
<Kyral> seth?
<Kyral> bah I'll just send it to seth@yubuntu.com
<Kyral> - the y
<bmonty> is it OK to call autoconf from the build target in debian/rules?
<Kyral> you mean in ./configure?
<Kyral> s/mean in/like
<bmonty> no autoconf
<bmonty> as in call autoconf and then ./configure
<Kyral> minghua, ajmitch, seth_k|lappy: Sent
<ajmitch> ok, to my ubuntu.com address?
<hybrid> i have a question of how repos work
<hybrid> could i upload video to a server and add it to my sources.list then some how apt it?
<tseng> buhwhat?
<tseng> apt doesnt speak video
<hybrid> but you can download the linux gazzette
<tseng> which is almost as stupid
<LaserJock> sistpoty: ping?
<tseng> text compresses much better
<seth_k|lappy> cheers Kyral, this is helpful stuff
<Kyral> ajmitch: yah
<seth_k|lappy> Kyral: okay with you if I excerpt this for the CC agenda
<Kyral> seth_k|lappy: Everything I log is under the FDPL ;P
<seth_k|lappy> :P
<Kyral> I dunno if KB will be okay though
<Kyral> who cares ;P
<|sistpot|> LaserJock: pong
<Kyral> |sistpot|: you are lagged by 7 minutes it seems ;P
<|sistpot|> hehe
<LaserJock> sistpoty: http://revu.tauware.de/~sistpoty/MoM/index.py?state=new is for Universe only?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: yes
<ajmitch> at least it should be only universe
<sistpoty> LaserJock: yes
<LaserJock> k, just wanted to make sure
<sistpoty> LaserJock: it _could_ handle main, but you would need to append &distribution=main
<sistpoty> LaserJock: actually it's universe + multiverse, not just universe
<bmonty> so any comment on my autoconf question?
<LaserJock> right, MOTU/M ;-)
<bmonty> I think the MoM merge mangled the configure script, and autoconf in rules fixes that, but I'm not sure if that makes sense to do
<Kyral> How do I register a product in LP?
<ajmitch> Kyral: by going through the registration pages?
<lifeless> launchpad.net/products
<Kyral> ty
<ajmitch> it's fairly self-explanatory from there
<Kyral> I'm slow lol
<minghua> bmonty: I'm not sure, but I think it's okay.  build is the first target you would call afterall
<lifeless> configure scripts rarely merge well
<bmonty> I see other packages doing it, but then I can also find stuff that says not to bootstrap in rules
<lifeless> right
<lifeless> so there is a philosophical debate
<lifeless> 'does applying a patch count as making a new distribution of FOO'
<bmonty> or is this the case that it works 99% of the time and fails in a couple corner cases?
<lifeless> the folk that say 'bootstrap in debian/rules' are saying 'if you apply a patch, you must act like upstream and effectively make a new distribution of FOO'
<lifeless> the folk that say 'never bootstrap in debian/rules' are putting their fingers in their ears and going la-la-la
<lifeless> ;)
<bmonty> I guess I know which side of the debate you stand on :)
<lifeless> well, when its not needed, I will avoid bootstrapping cause it does introduce more moving parts
<bmonty> most of the reasons I see to not bootstrap seem to revolve around introducing new archs as some point in the future
<lifeless> but as an upstream for what - a half dozen + projects these days - I expect anyone that patches my code to rebootstrap
<bmonty> I guess it isn't a mortal sin for packaging then
<sistpoty> what do you mean with bootstrap? regenerating autotools stuff?
<lifeless> yes
<lifeless> autoreconf for instance.
<sistpoty> ah
<LaserJock> is there a way to see a list of files in a package without actually downloading .deb?
<Kyral> apt-file?
<Kyral> packages.ubuntu.com?
<LaserJock> apt-file might work. I want to find science packages that have .desktop files
<Kyral> I can't wait until Saturday
<Kyral> REVU Day and ajmitch's MOTUSchool :D
* ajmitch fears
<Kyral> lol
<bmonty> shawarma: ping
<LaserJock> crap I can't figure out how to use apt-file
<Kyral> ajmitch: You should fear for me
<ajmitch> why?
<Kyral> I have to give a presentation on it for my Linux Lab
<ajmitch> 'it'?
<Kyral> the MOTUSchool lesson ;P
<ajmitch> *why* are you going to give a presentation on that?
<Kyral> Because I told the head of the lab about it and he told me to "take good notes because you will give a presentation next semester on it"
<ajmitch> oh lucky you
<ajmitch> there's one problem
<Kyral> what?
<ajmitch> you assume I know what I'm talking about
<Kyral> no
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> You are the DD ;P
<sistpoty> ajmitch: btw.: have you had time to look at my package (min12xxw) for debian yet?
<LaserJock> can somebody give an example of apt-file usage? sorry for the bother
<bmonty> LaserJock: are you getting no result when you run the command?
<LaserJock> bmonty: yeah
<bmonty> try 'apt-file update' and then search again
<LaserJock> bmonty: I tried apt-file update but still nothing
<bmonty> i did 'apt-file update
<bmonty>  and then apt-file list
<bmonty> and it works
<LaserJock> bmonty: but apt-file update and it was really fast
<bmonty> mine took 21 sec
<LaserJock> bmonty: hmm, 0.4 s for me
<bmonty> if I upload a merge for someone I can put their email in the changelog, right?
<bmonty> I know you guys did it for me, but I remeber the first time there was an issue with it
<LaserJock> bmonty: yeah, aren't they supposed to be whitelisted first? I could be wrong
<sistpoty> bmonty: you do that by simply getting applying the patch/debdiff and not changing the changelog
<sistpoty> bmonty: i.e. just sign the package with you key (debsign) and upload
<bmonty> sistpoty: ok, the person who did the merge didn't update their changelog
* bmonty points at shawarma
<sistpoty> bmonty: then request an updated diff ;)
<LaserJock> bmonty: I get the following when I do sudo apt-file -v update :
<LaserJock> D: got 'deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu dapper universe main restricted multiverse': Bad file descriptor
<bmonty> LaserJock: I just used apt-file for the first time about 15 mins ago and not updating made it not work for me
<bmonty> I wish I could help though
<LaserJock> bmonty: hmm, that's weird
<sistpoty> bmonty: if you have to edit the package, imo you should be listed in the changelog
<bmonty> sistpoty: if I did that and the person didn't know why it might make them not want to help or confuse them (I know that is how I would feel)
<sistpoty> bmonty: that's why I suggested you ask for an updated diff in the first place ;)
<bmonty> sistpoty: which was a good suggestion, and what I did :)
<sistpoty> :)
<bmonty> can we mark a package to not merge?
<sistpoty> bmonty: to sync instead? or to drop from the list?
<bmonty> sistpoty: the package is filelight, it would be a sync except the upstream tarballs in debian and ubuntu are different
<sistpoty> bmonty: the upstream tarballs are different? that's kinda strange
<ajmitch> sistpoty: orig.tar.gz might have been repacked
<ajmitch> most likely in ubuntu
<sistpoty> ok
<sistpoty> bmonty: if the ubuntu changes can be dropped, because they are non-existant, you should request a sync
<bmonty> I think it might make sense to wait for the next version (if there is one) and sync that from debian
<bmonty> sistpoty: I did request the sync and elmo said he can't because the orig.tar.gz files are different
<sistpoty> hrmpf
<sistpoty> ajmitch: any clues?
<ajmitch> sistpoty: about what?
<sistpoty> [03:51:00]  <bmonty> sistpoty: I did request the sync and elmo said he can't because the orig.tar.gz files are different
<ajmitch> sistpoty: I've already talked with bmonty about this
<sistpoty> ah, k
<bmonty> this might be easy for someone more proficient with diffutils than I, but it would be a lot of hand-jamming to do the merge
<ajmitch> we cannot have the debian orig.tar.gz in the archive without breaking the archive
<ajmitch> bmonty: why is that?
<LaserJock> arrghhh >:( why won't apt-file work?
<bmonty> the MoM patches are all against the debian orig.tar.gz
<ajmitch> bmonty: so?
<ajmitch> are there file differences between the orig.tar.gz files?
<bmonty> ajmitch: what is an easy way to diff the tar files?
<ajmitch> untar them into 2 directories
<ajmitch> diff -Naur dir1 dir2
<bmonty> ajmitch: that doesn't give any output
<ajmitch> that's good
<ajmitch> it might be something as simple as timestamps
<ajmitch> tar tvfz file1.tar.gz > file1.list
<ajmitch> same with file2
<ajmitch> diff them :)
* ajmitch doesn't know of a quicker way to diff tarballs, sorry
<bmonty> ajmitch: thats hard to tell, the file owner and group is different for every file, so everything is in the list
<LaserJock> is there a /etc file that gives the distro i.e. dapper?
<ajmitch> bmonty: ah, so that's why
<LaserJock> should /etc/debian_version say testing/unstable for dapper?
<ajmitch> yeah, probably
<bur[n] er> mine does
<sistpoty> ok, I'm off to bed now... cya
<ajmitch> night sistpoty
<LaserJock> hmmm, well apt-file is looking at the wrong URL and it looks like it doesn't know it's dapper
<crimsun> we don't pay any attention to /etc/debian_version
<LaserJock> maybe that isn't the problem. it looks like it can't fine main, universe etc. :
<LaserJock> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/dapper/Contents-i386.gz
<crimsun> the canonical (no pun intended) way is to use /etc/lsb-release , normally through lsb_release(1)
<LaserJock> why is it looking for Contents-i386.gz ?
<ajmitch> bbl
<lathiat> iirc ubuntus Contents-i386.gz are not updated
<lathiat> LaserJock: its a list of files ine very package
<lathiat> ah
<lathiat> i see
<lathiat> (scratch the last message :)
<lathiat> but the not updated bit did apply a while back, does it apply now?
<LaserJock> lathiat: I can't apt-file update
<LaserJock> ahhh, I see. Dapper doesn't have a Contents-*.gz
<Kyral> God I feel like I was in SW during that query with KB
<crimsun> LaserJock: it's best to ping kamion, mdz, lamont, infinity, or elmo about that if you don't get a response relatively shortly
<LaserJock> crimsun: ok, I don't think it is significant but I am curious
<Kyral> You know you use the Terminal too much when you try to tab complete everything
<crimsun> no, that's just a sign of liking tab completion. You know you love the Terminal too much when you spend more time writing bash-completions for every program you use.
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> uhh
<crimsun> LaserJock: kamion and elmo are likely to be asleep at this hour, only mdz and infinity may be awake.
* Kyral hides his lengthy Bash Alias file
<LaserJock> crimsun: oh, ok. well they will all get a chance to look at it
<bmonty> allright, filelight got accepted....ajmitch thanks for the help
<Kyral> hmm the dictcomplete script is broken saying there is no /usr/share/dict/words
<bmonty> good night everyone
<zakame> rainy afternoon all :)
<crimsun> 'morning zakame
<zakame> hi crimsun :)
<zakame> waah, lucene fails to build... why? :?
<zakame> considering it builds perfectly in my updated pbuilder :/
<crimsun> BUILD FAILED
<crimsun> /build/buildd/lucene-1.4.3/build.xml:141: Error running jikes compiler
<crimsun>    at org.apache.tools.ant.taskdefs.compilers.DefaultCompilerAdapter.executeExternalCompile(java.lang.String[] , int, boolean) (Unknown Source)
<crimsun>  ^^ that?
<zakame> yup, though looking down I see that libgcj.so.X doesn't seem to be there
<LaserJock> anybody using irssi?
<ajmitch> yes
<LaserJock> ajmitch: stupid question, how do you get out of it? I am way to used to gui irc clients
<zakame> LaserJock: /bye
<LaserJock> zakame: ok, thanks. man, do I feel dumb
<zakame> LaserJock: hehe, we all do feel like that some time ;)
<LaserJock> well, I like the idea of irssi but I need to read a little bit more about how to use it first :)
<crimsun> one of irssi's neatest features is its proxy
<crimsun> I use ssh tunneling to access it
<LaserJock> right now I'm using gaim in Windows and Xchat in linux
<LaserJock> crimsun: yeah, that is what I wanted to do with it
<ajmitch> crimsun: I never use that, I just use irssi+screen
<LaserJock> so do you set everything up in .irssi/config ?
<zakame> woohoo screen
<ajmitch> LaserJock: you can
<LaserJock> I used to use screen a far bit in my Gentoo days. I recently got vnc going so that has been cool.
* TheMuso uses irssi screen as well.
<crimsun> 'evening minghua
<minghua> crimsun: good evening :-)
<zakame> hi minghua :)
<minghua> hi zakame
<LaserJock> hi minghua
<minghua> hi LaserJock, congratulations on the membership
<LaserJock> minghua: thanks
<LaserJock> minghua: are you subscribed to the ubuntu-motu ML ?
<minghua> LaserJock: yes I am
<LaserJock> minghua: ok, I just sent an email about the packaging guide and I thought you might want to read it.
<minghua> any MOTU can review the sync for scim?  malone bug #4805
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4805: scim: libstdc++ new allocator build In: scim (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/4805
<minghua> I hope this get done soon, so that my newly uploaded (to debian) scim-tables won't get synced in ubuntu with the wrong ABI
<minghua> LaserJock: got the mail, will read later
<LaserJock> minghua: fine, just thought you might be interested.
<LaserJock> good night everybody. I gotta get to bed
<minghua> good night LaserJock
<zakame> gn8 LaserJock
<crimsun> minghua: looks good, I can request a sync now if you'd like
<minghua> crimsun: yes, please do
<minghua> crimsun: thanks
<crimsun> np
<zakame> afternoon dholbach :)
<dholbach> good morning motus
<crimsun> re dholbach
<dholbach> how are you all?
<minghua> hi dholbach
<crimsun> great, you?
<dholbach> crimsun: if you don't mind, i answer after my first coffee :)
<minghua> life is wonderful, altough a bit cold :-)
<zakame> dholbach: still figuring out why lucene hasn't built yet? :(
<dholbach> minghua: where do you live, how could is it?
<dholbach> zakame: no java love?
<minghua> dholbach: well, I suppose it can't be called cold compared with anywhere else as I'm in Houston, TX...
<zakame> dholbach: trying to :/
* dholbach hugs zakame 
<minghua> my "cold" only means "I can't go outside with only T-shirt and shorts on anymore" :-)
<dholbach> minghua: how cold is it?
<zakame> dholbach: thanks :D
<minghua> let me check weather
<dholbach> it's 0C over here
<minghua> okay, it's 52F, so that's like what, 10C?
<minghua> 11C maybe
<dholbach> siretart: ping
<zakame> thanks all, gtg later :D
<dholbach> off for a kernel upgrade
<dholbach> brb
<minghua> is there any easy way to quote a bug comment in malone?
<crimsun> in what sense?
<minghua> I want to click a link so I have quoted text (with ">" at the beginning of the line) in my new comments
<minghua> maybe with the quoted author and time
<minghua> like in bugzilla
<crimsun> ah, I don't know; ask in #launchpad
<minghua> will do
<ajmitch> wb dholbach  ;)
<dholbach> hey andrew :)
<ajmitch> hi
<ajmitch> how's it going?
<dholbach> ajmitch: better, after the first coffee :)))
<crimsun> hehe
<siretart> dholbach: morning!
<dholbach> hey siretart
<dholbach> siretart: damn, i forgot what i wanted to ask you
<dholbach> grmbl
<siretart> lol
<siretart> dholbach: perhaps because of some mailing list stuff?
<dholbach> i think it was even more important
<dholbach> ;)
<dholbach> i'll find out
<siretart> If it is important, you'll remember it for sure ;)
<ajmitch> morning siretart
<siretart> huhu ajmitch
<whiprush> hi aj.
<ajmitch> hey whiprush
<siretart_> damn
<siretart_> somehow my server not responding
<siretart_> the strange thing is, that the host of that vserver IS reachable.. very strange..
<whiprush> ajmitch/dholbach: so I think mentioning the new MOTUs on the fridge right on the front page is a good idea.
<dholbach> whiprush: YES! :)
<whiprush> the plan being "do the work to become an MOTU, get your name in lights"
<dholbach> whiprush: and IT'S EASY! START! TODAY! :)
<whiprush> how's the motu-school thing working out?
<whiprush> lots of participation I hope?
<dholbach> we had one session already
<dholbach> and \sh announced it afterwards
<dholbach> but we have quite a lot of people who want to see the next session
<whiprush> excellent.
<dholbach> the new mailing list is BONUS as well
<dholbach> with each answered question we have some piece of documentation
<dholbach> which is cool
<whiprush> excellent.
<sivang> morning all!
<dholbach> siretart: i remembered: i think that ubuntu-dev being a subteam of motureviewers is WRONG
<dholbach> siretart: a mail got out to 2496729467426 people, that bmonty requested to be part of that team
<dholbach> to herbert xu, to thom may, ... :)
<crimsun> I was wondering about that
<dholbach> either i didnt understand the team relationship model or this is the wrong way
<dholbach>  . o O { might be both, too }
<siretart_> dholbach: I see your point
<siretart_> dholbach: I don't think the problem is that ubuntu-dev is member in the motureviewers group
<dholbach> maybe it's right, but it seems to be a bit unpractical
<siretart_> dholbach: I rather think the problem is that ubuntu-dev is ADMINISTRATOR of motureviewers
<siretart_> dholbach: this is a point we can talk about
<siretart_> dholbach: perhaps we should make the group MOTU instead of ubuntu-dev as administrator?
<dholbach> siretart_: maybe, yes - and drop the administrator status
<siretart_> ok. will change this now
<siretart_> dholbach: the same thing will come with the group ubuntu-universe-contributors (the ppl which can upload to revu2)
<dholbach> yeah, better to have a small group of administrators, no?
<whiprush> hey so what ever happened to bdebian?
<whiprush> he still around?
<siretart_> dholbach: both have advantages
<siretart_> and disadvantages
<dholbach> he became a motu, but he seems to be quite busy in the last time
* whiprush nods.
<crimsun> doing the family thing :)
<whiprush> hmmm, so, I had a brainstorm today that I'd like to run by you guys.
<whiprush> I recall a while back reading a wiki page by ogra ...
<whiprush> the basic idea was "how to debug an app."
<whiprush> and I was thinking that it might make a good fridge piece during the dev cycle.
<dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash?
<whiprush> yeah, that's it.
<whiprush> so I was thinking, midway or so into the dev cycle, or close the preview release ...
<whiprush> we do a story on this, expand on it a bit.
<dholbach> sounds cool
<whiprush> basically, the idea being, "you're running dapper, but you don't know how to really report good bugs."
<whiprush> like, in bugzilla when a dev says "can you do a trace for me?"
<dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses can give a general direction too
<whiprush> and most of us go ... "uhhh ...."
<whiprush> right.
<dholbach> or HelpingWithBugs :)
<dholbach> we'll run a BUG DAY next week
<dholbach> christmas cleanup
<whiprush> So I was kind of thinking something along the lines of combining that into a general guide.
<dholbach> there's a link to some page....
<dholbach> let me think
<dholbach> http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html
<whiprush> where a dapper person can say "ok, I know I need the -dbg packages, and I can follow this guide, and that'll make me at least partially part of the solution."
<dholbach> althought that's a bit long
<whiprush> as opposed to "It doesn't work, help me daniel."
<dholbach> yeah, that's cool
<whiprush> I mean, lots of people are going to run -devel anyway, might as well attempt to give them a general idea on how to report stuff.
<whiprush> especially around preview release.
<dholbach> even before
<whiprush> just something I've been bouncing around in my head.
<dholbach> :)
<dholbach> i like it
<whiprush> I miss the old bug buddy, it did all that for me. :)
<whiprush> now I have to learn the right way, this vexes me, heh.
<whiprush> I think a bit of love to DebuggingProgramCrash would do the trick.
<whiprush> and then just publicisizing it.
<TheMuso> And I have heard somewhere that debugging multi-threaded apps is something else again.
<TheMuso> I have seen project docs suggest using the apply all bt command in gdb for multi-threaded apps.
<crimsun> yes, debugging multithreaded apps using gdb is heinous
<ajmitch> you need special powers
<ajmitch> super debugging skills
<siretart_> and a strong mind
<crimsun> sounds like andrew's volunteering!
<crimsun> ;)
<whiprush> well, if we can think of a way to make Joe Blow running dapper to make him/herself more useful, I think that would be great.
<ajmitch> crimsun: certainly not me
<ajmitch> anyone of the MOTUs who's met me can vouch that I'm not up for such tasks :)
<whiprush> Off the top of my head I can think of 10 people running dapper "for the sake of testing" that don't really dig into it.
* ajmitch isn't really into dapper at the moment
<dholbach> TheMuso: bug-buddy uses "apply all bt" and it's suggested in that wiki page too
* TheMuso only ever uses new releases once they go preview status.
<TheMuso> Otherwise, only for package testing, and chroots are used.
<ajmitch> oh I use dapper for my home system
<ajmitch> I just don't do much package work right now
<TheMuso> I tried using a dev release for a while, but I have a few too many custom requirements that are a pain to keep updating and rebuilding to do so.
* ajmitch still has about 45 outstanding merges
<dholbach> poor mono team
<ajmitch> dholbach: oh?
<dholbach> banshee gets 2467927469246 bug reports
<TheMuso> I don't mind updating my requirements on a stable system if there are major bugfixes or security fixes.
<ajmitch> ah, banshee
<dholbach> and they all look the same
<ajmitch> like beagle
<crimsun> speaking of security fixes...
<dholbach> ajmitch: worse
<ajmitch> dholbach: don't worry, the mono team has the crack troops of tseng & slomo_
<dholbach> ajmitch: somebody should compare the traces and dup all the bugs
<ajmitch> I've got 4 nearly identical f-spot bug reports across debian & ubuntu
<ajmitch> and upstream doesn't see what's going wrong
<whiprush> bed for me, nite guys.
<dholbach> sleep tight, whiprush
<ajmitch> night whiprush
<crimsun> 'night jorge
<whiprush> dholbach: ok, I'll have one smoke for old time's sake.
<ajmitch> heh
* ajmitch wonders what country the next ubuntu conf will be in
<whiprush> I hope it's in my hemisphere.
<ajmitch> northern? :)
<ajmitch> I think it'll most likely be
* ajmitch probably won't get to go
<whiprush> I was thinking "less than $2000 for a ticket-sphere."
* TheMuso missed out on attending earlier this year, due to the schedule being made available too late, and there only being one session I really wanted to attend.
<TheMuso> And having trouble getting there in the first plac.
<TheMuso> s/plac/place/
<whiprush> I'd like to go to brazil.
<whiprush> and germany is always a good choice.
<whiprush> good beer!
<dholbach> :)
<ajmitch> germany would be nice
<ajmitch> except for the long flights
<dholbach> what interesting motto would they have for a german conference?
<ajmitch> and the horrendous cost of those flights
<dholbach> Ubuntu ... ... errr *shrug*
<crimsun> mmm brasil
<dholbach>  yeah :)
<shawarma> I've got one last merging question, I think.. The package I worked on didn't need any extra work besides what had been done by MoM, so I just uploaded the debdiff from MoM to Malone. bmonty commented that I should just put my info in the changelog, and everything will be fine. Right now, the changelog has the automatically added entry from MoM.. Should I remove that and put in the same info with my name on it, or should I add another entry? I'm
<ajmitch> still expensive :)
<ajmitch> shawarma: put your name on it
<ajmitch> ie, remove scott's name
<shawarma> ajmitch: Excellent. Thanks!
<crimsun> yep, else scott gets spammed and becomes frustrated
<whiprush> Octoberbuntu.
<shawarma> crimsun
<shawarma> whoops
<whiprush> rolls off the tounge
<shawarma> crimsun: That makes sense.
<ajmitch> UbuntuBeerFest
<siretart_> katie will reject now unmodified MoM merges
<ajmitch> siretart_: oh?
<siretart_> from what I heared there is now a check in fernanda for this
<crimsun> cool
<ajmitch> why is that?
<siretart_> but I didn't try myself
<siretart_> ajmitch: I just heared elmo and Keybuk chattering about this, I think..
<ajmitch> C-e C-c is esay enough in emacs to fill in my info :)
<siretart_> maybe just rumors..
<siretart_> C-e C-c?
<ajmitch> sorry, C-c C-e C-c C-c
<siretart_> in diff mode?
<ajmitch> the magical key combos
<ajmitch> in debian changelog mode
<siretart_> aaahja..
* siretart_ adds another point to the list
<ajmitch> unfinalise & finalise changelog
<minghua> any vim debian changelog mode? :-)
<ajmitch> there probably is
* ajmitch gets bored & does svn up
<ajmitch> we need to svn2bzr this repository ;)
<ajmitch> it's fun when you see that hotplug will be removed on tiber
<siretart_> ajmitch: ?
<ajmitch> siretart_: dapper chroot dist-upgrade
<ajmitch> dholbach: forming a security team? you mean reviving the currently inactive one? :)
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> and MEANING it
<ajmitch> hehe
* TheMuso finds malone 10 times better than bugzilla. Can't wait till main changes over to it.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #10: It says "displaying matching bugs 1 to 8 of 8", but there is 9 In: malone (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: Rejected https://launchpad.net/bugs/10
<ajmitch> haha
<siretart_> hi StevenK
* StevenK waves.
<ajmitch> evening StevenK
<minghua> okay, the debian changelog mode in vim seems only doing syntax highlighting and add some menus in GUI
<minghua> no added command AFAICS
<siretart_> 'only ... add some menus'? this is a lot! :)
<ajmitch> siretart_: in vim?
<ajmitch> sigh, 110MB to dist-upgrade my sid chroot
* StevenK wonders when he gets the leet u.c address.
<minghua> siretart_: the "add menus" part is just my guess as I don't have a GUI version of vim
<ajmitch> StevenK: you s hould have it now if you've signed the CoC
<siretart_> minghua: ah, sorry. I overlooked the 'vim' part
<\sh> moins
<\sh> lol
<\sh> "German Stock Exchange removes Elmos from TecDax"
<StevenK> I have, but I have no indication that it works.
<siretart_> hrhr
<siretart_> hi \sh
<\sh> moins
<ajmitch> StevenK: email stevenk@ubuntu.com
<siretart_> StevenK: try sending an email to 'stevenk@ubuntu.com'
<siretart_> ah, ajmitch again faster than me ;)
<ajmitch> :)
<StevenK> SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<stevenk@ubuntu.com>: host fiordland.warthogs.hbd.com [82.211.81.145] : 550 <stevenk@ubuntu.com>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in virtual alias table
<siretart_> StevenK: there is a cronjob updating the virtual alias table
<siretart_> StevenK: so it is just a matter of time until it runs next
<StevenK> And where will it forward to?
<siretart_> StevenK: to stevenk@debian.org
<siretart_> StevenK: whatever you specify as your 'primary address' in launchpad
* StevenK changes it.
<StevenK> But then what happens if I set my u.c address as the primary? :-)
<siretart> better not to 'stevenk@ubuntu.com', this would cause a mailloop. and an angry elmo ;)
* StevenK grins.
* StevenK wonders if the Community Council logs are available anywhere.
<minghua> shouldn't the mail forwarding program detect that by itself?
<minghua> StevenK: yes, people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs
<siretart> minghua: perhaps elmo has already fixed this. I don't know
<minghua> on a second thought, however, it's always possible to set the primary address to another alias that forward to the @u.c address, so... :-)
<kapil> siretart: I got 'Error '553 Could not create file.' while trying to upload to revu. Could you please help?
<siretart> kapil: retry
<kapil> siretart: I tried this upload in response to a message from you on 6th December.
<kapil> siretart: It seems to be working now. Thanks.
<bojan> morning!
<dholbach> whiprush: "The inimitable Daniel Holbach"? :)
<Seveas> seth_k, ping
<siretart> hunger: around?
<hunger> siretart: I am (but tend to reply on the wrong channels).
<siretart> hehe
<\sh> siretart: http://www.daimonin.net/index.php?module=htmlpages&func=display&pid=5
<siretart> hunger: I havn't heard from you since some time, and you didn't answer my reviews on revu
<\sh> siretart: nice rogue like mmorpg (real)
<siretart> hunger: mind to give me a status update over your xen packages?
* siretart looks
<hunger> siretart: OH, I thought you wouldn't comment on them on revu.
<\sh> siretart: have it running on breezy...but I have some weired settings...libsdl let me only start this game only as root
<hunger> siretart: I have to read your comments tonight.
<hunger> siretart: My code is on Ed's site now, the revu stuff is somewhat outdated.
<siretart> hunger: Oh sorry, well, I did
<siretart> hunger: ok, then I'll archive what is on revu, ok?
<siretart> \sh: oops
<siretart> \sh: I read it is gpl. do they use a somewhat sane buildsystem?
<hunger> siretart: Ed wants to merge my work with his so that we both have a common base to start from.
<\sh> siretart: makefile :)
<siretart> hunger: that would be great
<\sh> siretart: and configure :)
<hunger> siretart: "Archiving" meens what exactly?
<siretart> hunger: my main concern was that your package replace the existing xen version 2 packages
<hunger> siretart: Why?
<siretart> hunger: archiving means it doesn't show up at the top but at the bottom of the list. nothing more
<hunger> Due to the name?
<siretart> you use the same source package name as the xen2 packages, which are already in ubuntu and debian
<hunger> siretart: Good point...
<siretart> and your resulting binaries do also conflict with existing binary packages
<siretart> is this on purpose?
<siretart> I'd feel way more comfortable it they would not conflict
<hunger> siretart: I am not sure how this source package thing will work out... Ed and I use mercurial now for our sources, so our stuff is merged with the upstream code in a repository.
<siretart> hunger: I'm talking only about the debian package names, i.e. debian/control
<hunger> siretart: It is not. We just use the upstream names (which have not changed).
<siretart> hunger: I don't see much problems in naming them 'xen3' 'xen3-hypervisor' and so on
<hunger> siretart: Yeap, but if those do not conflict then the binary names should not either:-)
<siretart> hunger: excatly thats my point
<siretart> \sh: so this seems like a nice target for MOTUGames :)
<\sh> siretart: yepp
<hunger> siretart: well, the kernel/udev upgrade broke my system anyway, so there is not much I can do at this point anyway;-(
<\sh> siretart: but I don't have the time in the moment to package it...grrr...
<\sh> between xmas and new years eve even
<siretart> \sh: so join MOTUGames :)
<siretart> I'd like to have a common motugames repository for our games (currently pong2, londonlaw and njam)
<dholbach_> siretart: repository?
<siretart> dholbach: yes. managed by svn or bzr
<siretart> the point against bzr is that we would have to write a 'bzr-buildpackage' similar to svn-buildpackage
<dholbach> what is the idea behind it?
<siretart> to track changes in packaging
<azeem> siretart: the trick is to wait till somebody else does it
<azeem> jbailey talked about writing bzr-buildpackage a couple of times, IIRC, so just be patient :)
<dholbach> azeem: as if jbailey wasn't busy enough...
* ajmitch also talked about it
<siretart> azeem: well, in fact, I'm waiting for it since some time, and it is on my todo list since some months.. not on too high priority, sadly
<ajmitch> but it's only been talk so far :)
* ajmitch even planned to work on it with jbailey
<azeem> probably, three independent implementations of bzr-buildpackage will surface within one week eventually
<siretart> I'd really like to utilize cm.py for that, this would make it really trivial
<ajmitch> azeem: of course
<ajmitch> siretart: it's probably an easier way to do it
<siretart> ajmitch: did you get cm.py do something useful?
<ajmitch> nope :)
* siretart keeps on getting 'not a branch' errors :(
<ajmitch> something to ask lifeless about if you have time
<siretart> if he has time
<ajmitch> that too :)
<siretart> w00h00. cm.py did something useful now..
<siretart> interesting..
<janimo> is there a way of removing packages from REVU?
<Gloubiboulga> hello
<siretart> janimo: yes.
<siretart> janimo: just tell me or another revu admin
<minghua> ok, time to reboot again
<dholbach> siretart: could you hop on #ubuntu-devel?
<janimo> siretart, please remove thunar then, thanks
<siretart> janimo: done
<siretart> w00h0. /me is back!
<siretart> :)
<crimsun> siretart: filterdiff would be a good idea for
<crimsun> siretart: the post to s-r@l.u.c
<siretart> crimsun: yes, I was thinking about it. but then this would not have been a complete debdiff to the package which I intend to upload
<siretart> crimsun: I expected the reviewers to be aware of filterdiff
<crimsun> but then it's not strictly necessary to touch the config.{guess,sub}, no?
<siretart> crimsun: it is debian/rules which checks in clean target if there is a newer config.{guess,sub}
<siretart> and replaces it without asking
<raphink> siretart: do you know of a function to get mysql port ?
<siretart> I could prepare another upload without invoking clean
<raphink> without grepping the mysql conf file
<siretart> raphink: I try to avoid using mysql
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> well I need to ;)
* StevenK uses psql instead.
* siretart too
<StevenK> Much better database, minus the stupid crap the mysql developers keep spouting.
<raphink> heh
<raphink> ok then
<raphink> do you know of a way to print only the first line in a sed result ?
<raphink> like running sed I get 3 lines and I only want the first one
<raphink> http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/452296
<raphink> is there a simple way to get only one line from this?
<minghua> siretart: I think such package (that have config.{guess,sub} in .diff.gz) should get a bug filed to
<minghua> siretart: the correct way should be using one recommended by /usr/share/doc/autotools-dev/README
<minghua> siretart: unfortunately the debian/rules generated by dh-make get this wrong
* minghua acutally just fixed this in his own packages not long ago :-P
<siretart> minghua: I tend to agree, but this cannot be done within a security fix
<minghua> siretart: sorry, wasn't aware that you are talking about security fix
<viviersf> ajmitch : ping
<siretart> minghua: in general yes, ok. But I don't think this warrants diverging from debian
<siretart> so a wishlist bug against the debian package should be filed
<siretart> imo
<siretart> perhaps our DD's here can comment on this
<StevenK> Huh?
* StevenK reads scrollback.
<minghua> siretart: I used to deal with such case by replacing my /usr/share/misc/config.{sub,guess} with the one in the package temporarily
<minghua> siretart: that way I can still call clean target
<minghua> siretart: a very dirty hack, of course
<siretart> StevenK: it about updating config.{guess,sub} in debian/rules clean target
<StevenK> Having clean depend on config.{sub,guess} is *dumb*.
<StevenK> The clean target is supposed to clean up after the build process, not update previously untouched files.
<minghua> StevenK: worse.  the template debian/rules from dh-make gives a *conditional* dependence on config.{sub,guess}
<StevenK> Right.
<StevenK> The dh-make author doesn't live that far from here ....
<minghua> lol.  StevenK, maybe a linda check for this?
<StevenK> I say, fix debian/rules so that build depends on config.{sub,guess}, not clean.
<dholbach> StevenK: poke him... he never got back to me for a patch to make dh-make use lsb-release :)
* minghua was quite surprised and pleased to know StevenK is the author of linda
<StevenK> Not right now. Linda is in disgrace.
<siretart> StevenK: do you think conditionally updating config.{sub,guess} in clean warrants a wishlist bug in debian bts?
<StevenK> siretart: I personally think it warrants an important bug in the BTS.
<siretart> oh.
<StevenK> dholbach: Craig is really busy IRL.
<dholbach> yeah, i can imagine
<StevenK> I haven't spoken to him in quite a while.
<janimo> raphink, pipe the results to head -n 1
<dholbach> that's why i put the smiley :)
<dholbach> i'm not really angry
* StevenK grins at dholbach.
<siretart> there is really an awful long list of packages doing this. THIS would be a really HUGE mass file of bugs
<raphink> janimo: how do I do that?
<janimo> sed bla bla |head -n 1
<StevenK> siretart: Well, it's my personal opinion. You could always mail -devel and ask for rough concensus.
<raphink> thanks
<raphink> thanks much janimo :)
<janimo> raphink, google for gnu software toolbox fo a good read
<StevenK> In the mean time, I'm dragging myself off to bed.
<raphink> ok
<raphink> :)
<StevenK> <- Still getting over sitting on IRC from 1am to 3am due to the CC meeting.
<siretart> StevenK: perhaps I should really start a discussion on debian-devel about this. I want to hear some other opinions first
<minghua> siretart: I agree with StevenK that before mass-bug-filing asking debian-devel is a must
<siretart> minghua: err, obviously
<minghua> siretart: I would love to see you starting such a discussion on d-devel ;-)
<zakame> evening all :D
<zakame> er, how do I force a rebuild on the buildds? or do I upload again?
<crimsun> uploading a newer revision automatically does that as long as nothing's in dep-wait
<crimsun> otherwise you can ask one of the ftp admins to perform a give-back
<crimsun> lamont or infinity usually (since elmo's really busy)
<zakame> crimsun: oooh! thanks! :D
<zakame> hi bmonty :)
<bmonty> hi zakame
<zakame> dholbach: just got your mail, thanks! :)
* zakame hugs dholbach 
<dholbach> :)
<crimsun> :)
* zakame now waits patiently for nip2 to finish, 12 MB on a dialup :/
<dholbach> please make ubuntu-science@ unmoderated, thanks
<Kyral> Morning MOTU
<siretart> hi Kyral !
<Kyral> ..I'm still banned from the Forums channel, this is going on too long
<\sh> dholbach: close the bug when bakery is compiled :)
<crimsun> Kyral: ugliness.
<\sh> Kyral: you don't need the forums
<Kyral> \sh: I don't
<Kyral> but other people DO need my help
<\sh> Kyral: they should subscribe to MLs
<dholbach> \sh: if it doesnt build that's another bug ;)
<siretart> I tend to agree with dholbach
<crimsun> crap, I need to file merge bugs
<shawarma> If a package doesn't need any changes (i.e. the only thing in a potential debdiff is the changelog entries from previous ubuntu-revisions).. then what? Should I just upload that debdiff, or can I do something special so that it will happen automatically henceforth? That would be easier for everyone, I guess.
<shawarma> I mean when merging, of course.
<dholbach> shawarma: you mean debian has all the changes, we once made?
<shawarma> dholbach: Right.
<dholbach> shawarma: we sync it
<dholbach> we just get the debian version in
<dholbach> we tell our ftpmaster to get it from debian and that it's ok to throw away our changes
<shawarma> But then the changelog will be missing the previous ubuntu-revisoions?
<dholbach> that's ok
<shawarma> I see. So if that's the case I let elmo know?
<dholbach> yep
<shawarma> Great. I'm not sure it it's the case yet, I just wanted to know.
<dholbach> cool
<dholbach> that's the preferred situation
<dholbach> no delta, we get free auto-syncs
<shawarma> Exactyly. Everybody wins.
<shawarma> BTW what are all these C++ allocator rebuilds about?
<siretart> well, we loose the credits in the changelogs, but this way we have a package less to merge with debian
<crimsun> the amount of headache we save vastly overweighs any credit we receive ;)
<crimsun> shawarma: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2005-November/000016.html
<shawarma> Yes. Still, I think the changelog entries could automagically be merged.. I don't care enough about it to implement it, though. :-)
<dholbach> maybe we'll have some bzr-launchpad-magic for that in the future
<dholbach> who knows
<shawarma> crimsun: The -c2 suffix was due to an ABI change, right? It's not just the c2-thing we're undoing, right?
<zakame> er we're not undoing anything actually :) in fact some c2 packages also need to be renamed as c2a
<shawarma> zakame: Good. That's what I though.
<zakame> shawarma: best is to consult doko's list in his message in devel, and the debian bts
<dholbach> new f-spot
<Gloubiboulga> a package which provides libfoo.so.x.y should absolutely be named libfoox.y ?
<mbreit> hi guys
<crimsun> Gloubiboulga: absolutely? no.
<crimsun> 'lo mbreit
<Gloubiboulga> but recommended crimsun ?
<crimsun> Gloubiboulga: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-sharedlibs.html
<zakame> Gloubiboulga: you could read dancer's library packaging guide at http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html
<Gloubiboulga> thanks guys
<shawarma> Can I pursuade one of you MOTU's to look at lablgtkmathview and see if you agree that it should just be synced? I'm not a MOTU, so if I just tell elmo to sync it, he'll probably ask one of you guys anyway. ;-)
* lamont-away points at http://buildd.mmjgroup.com/buildLogs/g/gimp-gap/2.2.0-1/gimp-gap_2.2.0-1_20051206-2042-hppa-failed.gz 
<lamont-away> can't build non-PIC, link the .a, then not remove the .o's before trying to make the .so (and thereby reuse the non-PIC .o files)
<seth_k> Seveas, pong
<Seveas> seth_k, your cloak is ubunt/member/sethkinast, underscores are not possible in cloaks
<Seveas> you should register the nickname sethkinast and link it to seth_k
<seth_k> Seveas, all right. Thanks for the heads-up
<Seveas> hmm, sethkinast is already registered, talk to freenode staff if you don't have the password anymore
<sethkinast> nope, I'm good, I had it once upon a time
<Seveas> ok :)
<sethkinast> thanks :)
<Seveas> np
<zakame> wb dholbach
<dholbach> re :)
<shawarma> Is there a procedure for non-MOTUs for letting someone know that a package should be synced instead of merged?
<zakame> yes, in lpbugs
<shawarma> zakame: really? Oh, I'll just use that then. Thanks.
<zakame> shawarma: actually, use lpbugs to send the sync message, and then ping a MOTU here. :)
<shawarma> zakame: I will. Thanks.
<zakame> YAY! nip2's up!
<shawarma> How often does MoM run?
<shawarma> I'm wondering because the REPORTS for both libbonobomm1.3 and orbit2cpp lists older versions than in sid.
<zakame> that's why I also look at the MoM logs too so I can investigate:-)
<shawarma> Heh.. If I ask for a package to be synced it'll be the one i sid that gets synced, right? Not the one listen in the REPORT file?
<zakame> usually, but not always
<shawarma> Ok.
<zakame> harhar I forgot to s/unstable/dapper/ :(
<viviersf> do you guys think that openoffice 2 stable will go into the backports ?
<crimsun> if you don't request it on the backports mailing list, no
<siretart> viviersf: did you try to build it in breezy?
<viviersf> no
<viviersf> thats why im asking
<siretart> try it, if it builds, it makes a good candidate
<siretart> if not, then not
<shawarma> Do you guys use pbuilder to build stuff?
<zakame> yep, when I can I use pdebuild
<Kyral> pbuilder OWNS
<zakame> (though with dialup it's really INSANE) :p
<Kyral> I mean I <3 pbuilder :D
<Kyral> zakame: this is why you don't wipe out the package cache(s)
<shawarma> Have you just configured it for dapper or do you somehow use it for both dapper and breezy?
<zakame> Kyral: of course I don't, I even reuse them ;)
<Kyral> shawarma: I keep 5 PBuilders
<shawarma> Kyral: How so?
<jamessan|work> --basetgz
<Kyral> Eh, different methods, which will go into the new packaging guide
<Kyral> yah basically I keep 5 configs
<zakame> heh pbuilder-inside-chroot
<shawarma> That was my idea too, but apparantly --configfile doesn't work as I expected.
<shawarma> I created a pbuilder-dapper configfile which points to a different basetgz, and when I used pbuilder build blah.dsc --configfile /full/path/to/pbuilder-dapper, it still used the default basetgz.
<zakame> hello Ubugtu
<Kyral> its a bot...
<zakame> I know, but the name's kuyut :))
<Kyral> lol
<shawarma> wtf...
<shawarma> stupid pbuilder piece of..
<Gloubiboulga> I've just sent libflu2.14 on REVU
<shawarma> I do this: "pbuilder build whatever.dsc --basetgz /some/path/base.tgz"
<Gloubiboulga> Could anyone have a look at it ?
<shawarma> And what does pbuilder say?
<siretart> libflu... sound dangerous
<shawarma>  -> extracting base tarball [/var/cache/pbuilder/base.tgz] 
<shawarma> Wtf?
<jamessan|work> shawarma: "pbuilder --basetgz /some/path/base.tgz build whatever.dsc"
<jamessan|work> I think
<Gloubiboulga> siretart, :)
<jamessan|work> hrm, maybe not
<shawarma> Nope.
<jamessan|work> shawarma: then it probably belongs after build instead of after the dsc file
<shawarma> jamessan|work: Oh... I'll try.
<Gloubiboulga> siretart, I'm working on libflu_vaccine too ;)
<shawarma> jamessan|work: Hey! That works!
<shawarma> jamessan|work: Thanks!
<jamessan|work> shawarma: good! was running out of places to stick the option  :)
<shawarma> jamessan|work: Exactly. It's kind of weird that it's that anal about where I put the options.
<jamessan|work> shawarma: if you're used to newer (in the overall scheme of things) programs that allow mixing of arguments and options
<zakame> err what does this mean? universe/misc/lucene_1.4.3-9ubuntu1: Building by buildd+vernadsky [optional:out-of-date] 
<zakame> (I'm looking at the buildLogs investigating lucene's failure :(
<shawarma> jamessan|work: Still, normally, if the position matters, you put them either at the end or the beginning, but pbuilder wants them in between stuff.
<jamessan|work> shawarma: not really. the command is "pbuilder build", then you specify options and arguments
<shawarma> jamessan|work: I suppose.
<shawarma> Anyhow, it's happily building now. Thanks for your insight. :-D
<jamessan|work> :)
<Gloubiboulga> ooffice2 doesn't start correctly :/
<seth_k> ack
<seth_k> that new OO2 upgrade eats computers
<seth_k> you're right
<Gloubiboulga> it's such a huge package to build
<\sh> wow
<\sh> someone is still using my kmyirc client
<\sh> Return Code not understood or not implemented. Please send this to
<\sh> sh@sourcecode.deReturn Code: 333
<\sh> hehe
<\sh> I think I have to code further more for this client
<azeem> you should make up scary sounding error codes
<\sh> I wonder what 333 is ... because it wasn't in the rfc1492
* JohnnyMast waves to the MOTU`s
<dredg> isn't rfc1492 a briding rfc?
<JohnnyMast> darn you guys have been more bussy then ever, 52 status emails
<dredg> bridging*
<dredg> can't remember details, know it involves pppoe
<dredg> nope, 1492 is tacacs
<JohnnyMast> wb \sh
<\sh> re
<\sh> hmm...if I set pbuilder create --binary-arch i386 on an amd64...it will create an i386 pbuilder env for me right?
<JohnnyMast> :| i dont know
<\sh> ogra: ping :)
<ogra> \sh: pong
<\sh> ogra: I want to setup a pbuilder env on amd64 but for i386
<ogra> i never did that
<\sh> ogra: pbuilder --binary-arch 386?
<ogra> but its surely possible :)
<\sh> i'll ask on -devel then :)
<\sh> btw...amd64 is running :)
<slomo_> \sh: congrats :)
<siretart> \sh: your new machine?
<\sh> siretart: yepp
<\sh> siretart: just a sempron64 but at least 64 bit
<siretart> :)
<\sh> well I had some problems with the benq dvd rw thing...it doesn't read our medias
<\sh> stops at e2fsprogs udeb
<\sh> reproducable..but i think it's a benq problem...with a sun 24x cdrom it worked :)
<dholbach> slomo_, ajmitch, tseng: what about providing libbeagle from the source package?
<JohnnyMast> libwiki-perl is broken i think
<\sh> libwiki-perl is unmet dep right?
<\sh> it needs a libwiki package which is not in ubuntu
<JohnnyMast> zakame >
<JohnnyMast> ?
<JohnnyMast> zakame, ping
<ajmitch> morning
<JohnnyMast> morning aj
<shawarma> Is it OK if I ask elmo to sync libgtkmm2.0 ?
<shawarma> Or should a MOTU do it?
<shawarma> geez, I'm getting tired of bugging you guys all the time. :-)
<\sh> shawarma: apply for a motuship :)
<shawarma> \sh: I will in due time. I haven't really felt I was ready, but I thing I'm getting there
<\sh> ok...lets leave it with amd64...the documentation about creating an i386 pbuilder on amd64 is wrong...
<\sh> switching laptops
<Kyral> hey LJ
<Kyral> I'm doing something right up your alley
<Kyral> my last Chem Post-Lab of the semester :P
<LaserJock> Kyral: well, I'm doing something right up your alley. Trying to figure out irssi & screen ;-)
<Hieronymus> LaserJock: it's easy
<ajmitch> heh
<Kyral> lol I can do Irssi
<Kyral> not screen yet
<Kyral> I <3 Irssi
<Kyral> it tab completes EVERYTHING!
<Kyral> but I cannot get the dicttabcomplete working
<azeem> the zsh of the irc clients
<LaserJock> well, is there a way to see if people are away or not? I really liked that in xchat
<azeem> you /whois them
<Kyral> uhh..look in the scripts package
<azeem> unless it's \sh, then you look at his nick
<\sh> or nafallo..he's using dircproxy as well :)
<azeem> there is screen_away.pl, btw
<azeem> that rocks beyond belief
<Kyral> says /usr/share/dict/words isnt there
<LaserJock> hmm, I see this is going to be fun. I just got to dig into it more.
<shawarma> Kyral: well, is it?
<crimsun> I normally set away, because I use irssi's proxy mode
<Kyral> its a broken symlink
<Gloubiboulga> I've got a problem with lpbugs.py :(
<shawarma> Kyral: heh.. no wonder then. Install wenglish or whatever.
<Gloubiboulga> I can't send anything
<Kyral> Do I need to install Ispell?
<\sh> Gloubiboulga: speak up :)
<\sh> Gloubiboulga: means? what type of mail sending do you have setup?
<Gloubiboulga> I've installed sendmail and mailx but nothing happens
<shawarma> Kyral: no
<Kyral> hmm
<Kyral> lets try this...
<\sh> Gloubiboulga: what says the logfile of sendmail?
<Gloubiboulga> \sh, I try to send a new merge mail
<\sh> Gloubiboulga: well...actually use postfix...it's easier and works
<Gloubiboulga> \sh, nothing...
<Gloubiboulga> ok
<Gloubiboulga> I'll try with postfix
<shawarma> So.. irssi is really the shit?
<Kyral> hmm
<Kyral> yah it is
* shawarma is considering abandoning his beloved bitchx..
<ivoks> shawarma: ++
<\sh> Gloubiboulga: u need the /usr/bin/mail programm which is normally in mailx
<\sh> or sendmail
<shawarma> Gloubiboulga: or use smtp, of course.
<Gloubiboulga> it's not in sendmail, but in mailx (installed)
<\sh> Gloubiboulga: smtp is the best way actually
<Kyral> it only seems to work only with some words
<ivoks> hi guys... sorry for not being here :{
<Kyral> and takes the Nicks before the tab complete
<Gloubiboulga> well, I will follow your great advices and try this with smtp
<\sh> Gloubiboulga: you do have a smtp relay server at your isp?
<Gloubiboulga> I think so
<crimsun> ivoks: no sweat
<ivoks> crimsun: eh...
<ivoks> this stale state will last for a month more...
<ivoks> i'm moving from home to my flat
<shawarma> ivoks: Cool. Congrats.
<crimsun> ivoks: great, there will be plenty of bugs to squash still :)
<ivoks> eh... thanks, i guess :)
<\sh> ok...lets burn this sempron64
<ivoks> on the other hand.. i have some great news :)
<\sh> ivoks: you are pregnant?
<ivoks> :)
<\sh> serious?
<\sh> are you becoming a father?
<\sh> congrats :)
<crimsun> congrats!
<bojan> hi
<\sh> I don't even know if it's right ,)
<ajmitch> hehe
<ivoks> i'll become grandpa with \sh around :)
<crimsun> haha
<Kyral> lol
<\sh> hehehe
<ajmitch> \sh: too much speculation ;)
<ajmitch> sigh, gaim just died
<\sh> ajmitch: rumours are good :)
<ivoks> no... croatiafilm (croatia movie company) is doing...
<ivoks> uhm... my english is rusty :(
<\sh> porn?
<ivoks> wait, i'll come up with a word... :)
<\sh> hehehe
<ivoks> prize contest
<shawarma> ivoks: Can you sketch it in ascii art?
<ivoks> and 10 computers are prizes
<ivoks> on all ubuntu is OS :)
<\sh> i won already..
<crimsun> excellent
<ivoks> not much, but something i was working on last week
<siretart> sorry german: http://www.pro-linux.de/cgi-bin/NB2/nb2.cgi?show.8998.7010..
<siretart> why do they install warty instead of breezy?
<ivoks> i heard about that...
<ivoks> it's even topic on croatians linux news group
<shawarma> ivoks: i've heard of german too..
<ogra> there is an english story about it too ... he link was posted to edubuntu-devel last weekend ...
<shawarma> ivoks: Sounds like myth, though.
<bojan> there are croatin linux news groups?
<ivoks> shawarma: it isn't a myth
<ivoks> bojan: yes, hr.comp.os.linux
<bojan> cool
<\sh> siretart: they just got the 5000 warty shipits?
<ivoks> that's odd, considering warty won't last for long :/
<shawarma> ivoks: So German is an actual language? Who would have thought it..
<ogra> shawarma: i held a talk about edubuntu on saturady at linuxtage essen, there is a lot of interest in ubuntu/edubuntu in educational areas in germany
<ivoks> shawarma: ?
<shawarma> ivoks: Never mind. I was attempting to make a joke. It made myself laugh, so you're the ones missing out. :-D
<shawarma> I don't get much sleep these days.. :-)
<ivoks> shawarma: i'm too tired for joks these days...
<shawarma> It doesn't take a lot to make me laugh.
<Gloubiboulga> shawarma, good joke, really
<dholbach> good night everybody
<ivoks> dholbach: night
<JohnnyMast> good night
<ajmitch> night dholbach
<herve> hello
<ivoks> hi herve
<herve> and good night :-)
<herve> hey ivoks
<LaserJock> goodnight dholbach
<shawarma> Hm... Let's take this irssi thing for a spin.
<ivoks> shawarma: irssi rulez :)
<shawarma> Hmm... It doesn't look too different form bitchx..
<crimsun> it just sucks less in more obvious ways.
<crimsun> (my $0.02)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> my first laugh today :/
<shawarma> What does it do the bitchx didn't?
<ivoks> i like channel handling
<crimsun> shawarma: proxy mode for one, which is my favorite
<\sh> what is a proxy mode?
<shawarma> crimsun: How?
<\sh> crimsun: u mean behaving like dircproxy? you can connect to it?
<crimsun> \sh: absolutely. I use ssh tunneling to connect to this irssi session.
<\sh> crimsun: cool
<crimsun> shawarma: http://www.irssi.org/?page=docs&doc=proxy
<crimsun> shawarma: another nice thing is the auto identification
<crimsun> shawarma: it's also a lot more graceful about dealing with badly behaving ircds
<crimsun> back later, lectures.
<shawarma> When's the next techboard meeting? The topic in #u-meeting doesn't say nor does the wiki.
<shawarma> ...and I don't remember the schedule.
<\sh> shawarma: next tuesday i think..and on the fridge is a calendar
<shawarma> \sh: Yup. Without any techboard meetings on it..
<shawarma> :-)
<\sh> kewl
<\sh> ping jdub to fix it :)
<shawarma> Hey, irssi puts timestamps on everything. Sweet.
<shawarma> Hey, and I like the way it handles /msg.
<Amaranth> what happens when something is backported, has a security problem, but the fixed package in dapper no longer cleanly backports?
<\sh> woooohoooo...first upload from this amd box
<shawarma> Hey, I can start three sentences the same way.
<\sh> Amaranth: well...shit happens...that is one of the things, we are waiting for
<Amaranth> waiting for? as a reason to push for backports to shut down or to push for source changes in backports?
<ajmitch> jdong would love it if backports shut down ;)
<\sh> Amaranth: no...not to shut down backports..but to have an example now what process we have to set up
<\sh> Amaranth: ask pitti and elmo how to proceed
<Amaranth> you could force it ;)
<\sh> if its really serious, there should be a way
<\sh> Amaranth: why should I do it?
<\sh> Amaranth: other question..what fails with the new package?
<Amaranth> there isn't an example of this yet
<\sh> Amaranth: and pushing "source changes into backports" is no solution...most of the guys in the backports team don't even have upload rights, neither are they members..
<Amaranth> but i believe the vlc package in dapper doesn't build anymore on breezy but an older one got backported
<\sh> Amaranth: older one means? the version which was backported was already in dapper and got somehow updated?
<ogra> \sh: most of the guys ???
<ogra> there is only Mez
<ogra> wo disappeared silently
<\sh> ogra: well..that's what I meant..and the others who are testing the compilation of dapper packages into breezy aren't members
<\sh> or whatever...guys from the street
<shawarma> *G*
<ogra> yup
<Amaranth> \sh: a version that was in dapper got backported, a new version got uploaded to dapper which doesn't backport anymore
<Amaranth> \sh: i'm almost positive it was vlc
<\sh> Amaranth: hmm...but why it can't be backported anymore? (the new version)
<\sh> Amaranth: build-deps or deps?
<Amaranth> \sh: I don't know the details, exactly.
<\sh> Amaranth: please check then...we have to know exactly why it fails ... then we can think about a solution somehow..I'll try to reach pitti and/or elmo and ask them how to proceed, ok?
<Amaranth> will do
<\sh> Amaranth: rock :)
<Amaranth> \sh: E: Build-Depends dependency for vlc cannot be satisfied because the package libdvbpsi4-dev cannot be found
<Amaranth> and libflac-dev (>= 1.1.2-3) appearently
<Kyral> isn't libdvbpsi going through a transition now>
<Amaranth> Kyral: talking about backports
<Kyral> ah
<Amaranth> Kyral: soname change in $RANDOMLIB isn't a "transition" :P
<Kyral> lol
<Amaranth> only large things like X, gcc, etc
<\sh> Amaranth: hmm...libdvbpsi4-dev doesn't exist in breezy..so it can be backported before a new upload
<\sh> s/can/could
<\sh>  /
<Amaranth> \sh: and libflac?
<\sh> libflach is there but in version 1.1.2-1ubuntu2
<\sh> (in breezy(
<\sh> )
<Amaranth> that's what i mean
<\sh> where as libflac 1.1.2-3ubuntu1 is in dapper...also a backport candidate
<Amaranth> they can't backport libraries like that
<Amaranth> not when lots of things use them
<Kyral> This is interesting
<Kyral> Guy with a MS Cloak came in asking for Mark's addy
<Kyral> its mark@ubuntu.com right?
<\sh> with a what?
<Amaranth> so if all current versions of vlc have a security issue and a new version is released which gets into dapper backport users are potentially screwed
<Kyral> Microsoft hostname cloak
<Amaranth> \sh: foo!foo@microsoft/foo
<\sh> Amaranth: as I said...if you can backport the libs, which are not vital to gnome, gtk, kde or whatever is in main...they can be backported
<\sh> Amaranth: if not...as I said...shit happens
<Amaranth> \sh: I seem to remember that TB meeting deciding that no libraries could be backported.
<Amaranth> libdvbpsi4 wouldn'
<Amaranth> err, wouldn't be a problem, it doesn't exist in breezy
<LaserJock> well, it would be nice to update packages that are realeased unusable.
<\sh> Amaranth: libdvbpsi4 could be backported, actually if there are no rdepends but vlc
<\sh> where as libflac can't be backported, because it's main and has a lot of vital rdepends
<Amaranth> \sh: err, if it doesn't exist at all in breezy it'd be fine to backport it
<Kyral> so should I give this guy Mark's addy?
<Amaranth> \sh: but libflac couldn't
<Amaranth> Kyral: I don't see what it'd hurt.
<ajmitch> Kyral: it's plastered all over the place
<Kyral> okay its mark@ubuntu.com right?
<\sh> "hello this is bill, mark would you like to work for MS? we need another OSS guy how understands the masses"
<ajmitch> probably not
<\sh> s/how/who/
<\sh> "and mark, what do I have to do to fly to the moon"
<\sh> *g*
<LaserJock> \sh: maybe he could get stranded on Mars?
<sivang> Kyral: where was it ?
<Kyral> #ubuntu
<Kyral> nm he said he had talked with Mark on IRC in the past
<\sh> could be a fake as welll
<Kyral> I jumped the gun lol
<sivang> interesting
<ajmitch> ah, drobbins
<ajmitch> he was with gentoo, remember?
<Kyral> no...
<LaserJock> ajmitch: yeah, so sad :(
<ajmitch> Kyral: keep up with the news :)
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> Its hard in this frozen wasteland I live in
<LaserJock> Kyral: he started Gentoo and then went to work fo MS after he got pretty far in debt with Gentoo. Or something like that
<Kyral> ah
<sivang> ajmitch: I wonder what does he want from mark
<\sh> LaserJock: he just wanted a good life for his kids and wife (family in total) which is not bad...but he comes sometimes to #gentoo-dev
<Kyral> He said he had a friend who was out of work and he wanted to pass on a resume
<LaserJock> \sh: I totally understand his reasoning, I am just sad that it happened.
<\sh> LaserJock: why?
<\sh> sabdfl tried to hire daniel robbins...
<\sh> , too
<LaserJock> \sh: It somehow seems like a defeat
<\sh> LaserJock: I don't think so...well when you compare MS and Canonical right now, Bill Gates did the same as Mark is doing now with linux...which is not bad, but some people are quite disagreeing with marks ideas or behaviour...
<\sh> LaserJock: because we are thinking in terms like "freedom"...but nobody sees that most of the devs even in FOSS need money..and many FOSS devs are doing non-FOSS work in RL
<\sh> LaserJock: the problem of MS is, they invented the internet
<LaserJock> \sh: I'm just sad that the linux (Gentoo at least) didn't step up a little to provide for him. I didn't even know until he had already been hired by MS
<\sh> LaserJock: gentoo has no money at all...
<\sh> LaserJock: most of the infrastructure is being sponsored by universities...
<LaserJock> \sh: I probably would've donated to a "Save drobbins" campaign '-)
<\sh> LaserJock: and some companies who were sponsoring some hardware
<\sh> LaserJock: you can't..I think he has two kids now...and a wife...which cost money.
<LaserJock> \sh: yeah, I know.
<LaserJock> \sh: I just thought it was sad that that is the way it happened. I don't blame it at all.
<\sh> and the times of good money for OSS work are over..the people with the money just woke up
<minghua> hello everyone
<\sh> and there are other people like mark, who are spreading quite a lot of money, which burns right now, towards FOSS, but he has not everywhere a good reputation, because he's doing this. Which I can sometimes understand, but sometimes not, because pushing FOSS to the masses cost money and it's not bad or evil at all.
<LaserJock> hi minghua
<\sh> that's my opinion
<LaserJock> \sh: I agree
<\sh> LaserJock: there is only one real big problem...
<\sh> LaserJock: "how the ubuntu community is behaving".
<Hieronymus> \sh: how is it behaving?
<\sh> LaserJock: when we are representing ubuntu on fairs e.g., and we are throwing away e.g. the ship it cds...and coming to those events like "hey, look here, we are the best the biggest the richest community ever"...other projects like gentoo will look at us, like bastards...because gentoo e.g. pays for their cds and they are selling them to earn the costs...
<\sh> LaserJock: and sorry to say..it just happened..and this behaviour I don't like...because I know how hard it is to burn,press, create the material for fairs, as an example..and I don't want to be seen as a asshole towards others.
<LaserJock> \sh: makes sense
<sivang> \sh: I don't think we should be sorry for having mark as someone who backs up the distro. It's a free world with free will, Mark said he could donate money to Debian, but then thinking of it - he realized it might be better off like this. I don't think he has went wrong IMHO :-)
<sivang> \sh: btw, what do you mean "times of good money for OSS work are over" - has there a "good time" for this before?
<\sh> sivang: I didn't say we should be sorry...I said, we should have an eye how the community behaves. We are in the middle of a commercial environment which gives us more then the others have, and a free distro and a free community, but this community raise and falls with its backup.
<\sh> sivang: yes :) there were good times :)
<sivang> \sh: the please, I'm probably yoo ignorant - was this when Bob Young was in RedHat? :)
<sivang> s/yoo/yoo/
<sivang> err
<sivang> s/yoo/too/
<\sh> sivang: no..it was, when all business angels and risk capital companies were pushing money into companies with ideas but no products
<sivang> \sh: ah , well, I guess in Israel this has passed on FOSS, even now FOSS Is something most of the users don't even know about :-(
<\sh> sivang: when the stock market just explode with all "here opensource there opensource bla"
<sivang> \sh: when was this? (as in , what year )
<azeem> sivang: shortly before Mark sold Thawte
<\sh> sivang: 90ies...1995-1996-1997 1998 and 1999 the market just slowed down...
<\sh> sivang: actually in 2000/2001 the market just exploded completly into a big cloud of hot wind :)
<sivang> \sh: ok, I witnessed that - but from the POV from here, it wasn't never about FOSS
<\sh> sivang: thinking even of "Intershop"...."providing the best ecommerce software ever with opensource tools (perl)"
<sivang> \sh: all many one liner ideas the angles spent money on and enver saw sustainability
* ajmitch wishes he saw some of that dotcom boom ;)
<\sh> sivang: oh...all companies who got the money were doing software business with opensource software...linux everywhere, perl/php etc.
<sivang> \sh: when I talked to people about FOSS back then (when I worked in www.attunity.com) they looked a t me like a madman. (it was 2000-2001)
<\sh> sivang: no one said something about "we give something back"..actually redhat did somethind and suse too..
<ajmitch> now they just think you're crazy
<sivang> ajmitch: well, I now work at Zend, server side devision is mostly gentoo, fedora and now some ubuntus :)
* sivang admits that the market might be different from what it looks from here.
<sivang> ajmitch: but I'm not even close to working on open source software, we acutally provide only binaries in the products I am responsible for :-/
<\sh> sivang: zend is doing "opensource work" as well..despite the fact, they are earning money with the windows side of life :)
<sivang> but at least my products doesnt' cost any money, only if you need support then you pay.
<sivang> \sh: yes , to my misfortune :-/
<\sh> sivang: and with the developers tools :)
* sivang wished he never had to touch windows again.
<sivang> \sh: yes, the whole other line of products cost money.
<\sh> sivang: why misfortune? you earn money with it...you survive because there are people who are using windows for putting some faulty php code in their webservers ,)
<sivang> hehe
<sivang> \sh: I can't seem to understand why I need to support IIS :)
<sivang> \sh: why would someone want to use IIS and run php under it??
<\sh> sivang: because MS works with "clk" and not "cli" :)
<sivang> \sh: what's clk? ,)
<\sh> sivang: "click"
<\sh> ,)
<\sh> but I was suprised to see tab completion integrated into "cmd.exe"...
<\sh> only cp and ls are missing :) and rm :)
<sivang> yes, well. it's very hard to me to get used to not using ls
<sivang> I need to fix my self an "alias"
<sivang> at least I get to work with linux, this is to itself admirable in a country so small with FOSS like .il
<sivang> \sh: well, misfortunate because up until now I was only responsible for the UNIX version :)
<sivang> \sh: and you, you're work is OS neutral ?
<\sh> i have to see how I can manage to have xdmcp running on this laptop over wireless..and connect to an xserver on the amd64 now
<\sh> sivang: well yes..but many systems are running on windows...our main office os is windows...(exchange etc.) the ISP OS is solaris 8/9, hp openview is running on solaris9, our oracle dbs are running on solaris9...our CAS runs on tru64 (alpha) and some new servers from the other companie who bought us are running suse linux
<sivang> ok, I'll get back to trying to wrap libnotify with a python moudle
<sivang> \sh: talking about hetrogenous network :)
<\sh> sivang: at lycos it was the same...DC was solaris, tru64 and linux....
<\sh> sivang: office IT was windows
<\sh> sivang: but there was at least one little employee who was running linux on his office machine and had a version of vmware running for exchange :)
<sivang> \sh: well, in here office IT is windows as well, but we're allowed to run Linux if we want to. they can't tell us since we're not part of the office IT
<sivang> \sh: hehe, I think I know who this is.
<sivang> \sh: even Zeev uses windows, btw.
* ajmitch looks around for something to break
<\sh> sivang: tell him I'm not using php anymore..just python :) he sucks ,)
<ajmitch> why is fetching packages so slow today? :)
<sivang> \sh: OMG, I talked too much again ;)
<\sh> ajmitch: uhm? 500kb/s is slow?
<ajmitch> 4K/sec for me
<ajmitch> I should get up to 200K/sec
<\sh> ajmitch: ah NZ highspeed internet :)
<sivang> \sh: but he is a canon when it comes to *NIX, really. He is mostly sshing to other *NIX machiens
<\sh> sivang: using OSS putty.exe
<sivang> \sh: he also has amazing understanding of the kernel :)
<sivang> \sh: yes, somethign liek that hehe
<\sh> that reminds me..
<\sh> ogra_: do you know how far the project "Writing the Kernel in jpython" is ?
<sivang> \sh: ????!!!
<sivang> reimplementing the kernel in jython? that's one WTF
<\sh> sivang: well...we had a incredible idea...we are rewriting the linux kernel in python...but with a jvm beneath to have it running even on embedded devices ,)
<Kyral> lol
<\sh> -ECRACK
<Kyral> Can't you already insert Python into the Kernel code?
<sivang> Kyral: nahh, just use parrot instead
<\sh> Kyral: hopefully not
<\sh> ogra_: do you know how far the project "Writing the Kernel in jpython" is ?
<sivang> \sh: well, when parrot CPU is ready, why not?
<sivang> (I read there are plans to make a parrot CPU)
<ajmitch> \sh: why not ironpython? ;)
<\sh> sivang: well...sun sparc cpus are opensourced :) you can rebuild it at home at no costs and no patent fees :)
<ajmitch> then you have the joy of using mono
<\sh> sivang: thinking about that...we implement some megs of ram inside the cpu core...
<sivang> \sh: ah right, I was amazed to find that out when I ordered one for testing the sun builds
<sivang> ajmitch: mono doesn't make me feel so good about it, dunno why
<sivang> \sh: s/sun/sparc/
<ajmitch> and java does?
* sivang thinks about sun. they now have an open solaris, they have an open sourced CPU..pure open platform?
<\sh> sivang: and porting jvm to cpu core instructions...running then python..the bootloader will be in pure java...but the kernel will be written in python...
<sivang> ajmitch: no, that's why I said parrot :)
* ajmitch tries to imagine the cooling required for a cpu that runs parrot code
<sivang> ajmitch: would say it will require water cooling?
<sivang> (I'm not aware of the underlying implementation of parrot, I just know it's one of the fastest engine according to the pERL 6 FAQ)
<sivang> \sh: so the kernel will run in python under the jython interpreter?
<sivang> \sh: seems much overhead
<\sh> sivang: will be a "testscenario" for the worst case..
<sivang> lol, or huh?
<sivang> :)
<\sh> sivang: kernel in VB# with mono vm :)
<sivang> \sh: hahahahahHahaha
<\sh> "we click building a kernel" part 1 on ibm developerworks :) written by drobbins :)
<sivang> hehehehe
* sivang ROTFLs
<sivang> \sh: stop it, I'm all over :)
<\sh> sivang: thx to my amd64...
<\sh> it burns
<ajmitch> sivang: parrot bytecode is unnecessarily complex compared to java or IL
<sivang> ajmitch: IL ?
<ajmitch> mono/.NET
<sivang> ajmitch: does its complexity comes out from it's generality ?
<ajmitch> no, just from its design
<ajmitch> make an opcode for everything possible ;)
<sivang> I see
<sivang> but it's talked very highly, from what I read on forums, and well, the perl mongers ;-)
<sivang> for performance mainly
<sivang> which is weird, in view of what you just informed me :)
<ajmitch> oh I'm sure they can make things fast
<ajmitch> but I can't imagine it being fast & simple in hardware
<sivang> ah I see.
<sivang> well, my dear friends, I have to go to sleep, in order to survive myself as \sh described. I wish I could just work on Ubuntu and not try to sneak in some minutes before bed, that are not even enough for having a good and hilarious chat with my community members :)
<ajmitch> night :)
<\sh> good night sivang
<sivang> ajmitch: night,
* \sh goes as well just now..after knoda
<sivang> \sh: good night !
<\sh> because tomorrow I have a training
* ajmitch will be left here twiddling his thumbs :)
<sivang> \sh: of a new cable device?
<sivang> ajmitch: I'm sure you will find something to break
<sivang> heh
<ajmitch> sure
<sivang> \sh: I just hope you don't have to get up in the middle of the night like last time :-)
<mhz> hi all. I 'stupidly' deleted an email i got yesterday about packaging training. Could any one help me get to the url. I already wiki for it unsuccessfully
<mhz> please?
<sivang> mhz: you mean motu-school?
<mhz> ohhh, yea!
* mhz wikis for it
* sivang leaves it for ajmitch ;)
<sivang> renight!
<\sh> mhz: linux.blogweb.de
<\sh> mhz: read it on the blog :)
<mhz> \sh: okis, thx
<mhz> BTW, GRAT initiative!
<mhz> great
* mhz should propose a MoinWiki-School :D
<Kyral> lol
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> but it does seems many people can't get the wiki idea :(
<\sh> mhz: thx
<Kyral> Wikis are awesome
<JohnnyMast> yep
<mhz> \sh: mind if i wiki the info on one of the MOTU pages?
* mhz is fanatic of moin
<\sh> mhz: if you like, we need a special section for it..announcements and scripts
<mhz> oks, count on that
<\sh> mhz: rock..thx :)
<\sh> make it a subsection of w.u.c/MOTU/
<mhz> "i am who I am because of what we all are" (is it too much for one day ?) :D
<mhz> sure
<Gloubiboulga> good night
<mhz> \sh: are you sure subsection is a good idea? It could be, sure. Just wondering if you knew that 'horizontal' layout (everything on the same section level) is easier and faster for wiki engines?
<mhz> is less expensive
<\sh> mhz: well...it depends on motu :) so it should be under this directory..we wanted to move our pages anyway
<mhz> zero killed, then.
<mhz> subsection will be
<herve> bye
<Kyral> uhoh
<Kyral> how did an editor war start in #ubuntu
<LaserJock> Kyral: somebody said "which is better"?
<Kyral> I dunno
<Kyral> all I know is that I looked in and suddenly people where shouting "VIM!" "EMACS!"
<ajmitch> emacs, obviously
<ajmitch> there can be no other
<Kyral> Yup :D
* Kyral high fives ajmitch
<\sh> hmmm...
<\sh> vimacs
<Kyral> Hey it comes with Tetris built in
<mhz> emacs and nano :D
<Kyral> what can you say about an Editor that has Tetris built in?
<LaserJock> I started out with emacs but I am starting to like vim also
<Kyral> Meta-X Tetris :D
<siretart> slomo_: one of the skin writer has answered. he asked what licenced would be fine for his mplayer skin :)
<Kyral> hey robotgeek
<robotgeek> Kyral: hey K
<robotgeek> i'm on the launchpad wiki :)
<\sh> siretart: gpl? cc? bsd?
<siretart> \sh: I told him that I prefer for my own licence bsd/mit style, but Artistic or GPL is fine, too
<siretart> for my own projects
<siretart> that is
<siretart> \sh: it is about mplayer-skins
<\sh> siretart: well...are the skins only graphics or is it even with code?
<siretart> \sh: only grafics and layout description configs, no code in our sense
<siretart> \sh: the problem is the lack of ANY copyright statement
<siretart> and elmo rejected that
<\sh> siretart: CC then :)
<siretart> \sh: CC not considered DFSG free
<\sh> oh yes..I forgot
<\sh> gpl then...bsd/mit is somewhat usable without giving back something
<\sh> or he dual license it
<siretart> he can license it with whatever he wants. it just has to be 'free' :)
<\sh> :)
#ubuntu-motu 2005-12-13
<JohnnyMast> Kyral , ping
<siretart> gn8 folks
<JohnnyMast> gn8 siretart
<sistpoty> hi folks
<JohnnyMast> hi !
<Kyral> JohnnyMast: sorry was at dinner
<JohnnyMast> well
<JohnnyMast> ok good excuse :)
<JohnnyMast> the mgp (Ubuntu) bug
<JohnnyMast> what are you going to do with it ?
<Kyral> the what?
<JohnnyMast> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/mgp/+bug/3297
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #3297: mgp puts binaries in /usr/X11R6/bin, which is not in the default $PATH In: mgp (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/3297
<JohnnyMast> you replyed to it
<Kyral> Ah I remember trying to fix it
<Kyral> it was hard because of soemthing in the way it was built
<JohnnyMast> but failed ?
<Kyral> It used the X Build thing
<JohnnyMast> hmm well let me see
<JohnnyMast> Ubernerd Johnny :)
<Kyral> huh?
<JohnnyMast> if there is a way to fix it ...
<Kyral> There is but at that time I dind't know how
<Kyral> for a while I just went around triaging :D
<JohnnyMast> :)
<JohnnyMast> when i did read your answer it made me laugh
<JohnnyMast> well not laugh @ you i mean its almost quote able "Confirmed" lol
<sistpoty> Kyral, JohnnyMast: if you actually going to work on the bug, please set it's state to accepted
<Kyral> sistpoty: I wasn't so I didn't :P
<Kyral> IIRC bddebian said he was....
<sistpoty> hehe
<JohnnyMast> sistpoty yes yes
<Kyral> I recall trying a lot to change it but no avail
<LaserJock> anybody know about how many packages in universe have ubuntuX versions?
<Kyral> grep the package list for it?
<sistpoty> LaserJock: not really, but a rough guess would be 1108
<sistpoty> (that's number of entries of the merge list... but some have already been synced, some are yet missing, and some are libstdc++ only)
<LaserJock> sistpoty: that's good enough
<Kyral> why do you need to know amigo
<sistpoty> iirc initial merge count was ~700
<LaserJock> Kyral: just trying to explain why there is a lot of work in merging
<ogra> because thats the amount of merges we carry around for each release
<Kyral> ah
<Kyral> some Non-User wondering? :P
* sistpoty hopes it will be less next time
<LaserJock> no, trying to work on JohnnyMast's wiki page
<Kyral> lol
<JohnnyMast> ahh thanks !
<ogra> sistpoty: the more syncs, the less merges ;)
<Kyral> You'll get in next time :D
<sistpoty> ogra: sure, and if we hadn't libstdc++ transition, I'd guess we could be down very much :/
<ogra> yup
<LaserJock> JohnnyMast: ok, check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Merging
<JohnnyMast> ok
<JohnnyMast> ok thanks for what you did so far ! :)
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Thats good.
<TheMuso> I like where that is going.
<JohnnyMast> yeah its better then the existing pages
<JohnnyMast> my bug fix didnt reach the eyes of a motu yet
<LaserJock> JohnnyMast: if you need me to do more I can but it's up to you ;-)
<JohnnyMast> you can never do enough
<JohnnyMast> the same moto as for this place
<LaserJock> true
<JohnnyMast> because i want to make t this way it goes trough a merge in dtail
<JohnnyMast> step by step
<JohnnyMast> and every consideration
<JohnnyMast> when reading paches and stuff
<JohnnyMast> this way the reader know what he has to do and when her doesnt have todo a thing
<TheMuso> JohnnyMast: It really does dependon the nature of the package, and what the patches are.
<JohnnyMast> true
<TheMuso> I don't believe it is really possible to explain about the patches unless you have a simple example to work with.
<JohnnyMast> but if you make a dtailed discription you can tell when to leave something out or add something
<TheMuso> Not forgetting to check the upstream version as well. i.e in Debian, etc.
<sistpoty> imo examples are always a good thing
<JohnnyMast> well its more the combi + the considerations
<LaserJock> however, it is hard to have a real life example if the merge has already been done
<JohnnyMast> thats what will intrest more ppl in helping motu
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Very true, sort of what I was trying to say.
<JohnnyMast> it will make people know earlyer that its not that hard
<TheMuso> JohnnyMast: Unfortunately that is not so true for a number of packages, as some patches that get dropped involve various languages, like C, python, etc. The merger might not know what they are looking for, and the changelog entries alone may not give them enough info.
<JohnnyMast> im off guys thanks for the plessent talk
<sistpoty> good night JohnnyMast
<JohnnyMast> gnite
<JohnnyMast> TheMuso you can check the debian patches from the older versions
<TheMuso> For example, at the moment I avoid such packages as I don't know C/python/C++ very well at all.
<Kyral> dangit xscreensaver is being a pain again
<JohnnyMast> could not be so hard
<LaserJock> hhmm, can you attache files to the wiki?
<JohnnyMast_AFk> yep
<JohnnyMast_AFk> type in the src
<JohnnyMast_AFk> attachement:somename
<JohnnyMast_AFk> press pre-read
<JohnnyMast_AFk> and click on the somenamelink
<JohnnyMast_AFk> to upload the file
<JohnnyMast_AFk> and tada :)
<JohnnyMast_AFk> sorry im supposed to be afk
<LaserJock> so, we could grab some of the small diffs from MoM and attach them for an example
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Yeah. My personal view is we use diffs that are merged/dropped that are only dependancy issues that need resolving. They are the easiest to explain I think.
<JohnnyMast_AFk> yep
<LaserJock> check out xcdroast on the done list
* TheMuso looks
<TheMuso> LaserJock: That had no dropped patches.
<LaserJock> true but I don't think that is a problem
<TheMuso> What did you have to do to it?
<LaserJock> well, I didn't have to do anything, MOM did it for me ;-)
<TheMuso> Ah yeah. I had a similar package yesterday.
<LaserJock> but it is still a merge
<LaserJock> we could present it as a manual merge
<TheMuso> Yeah true.
<TheMuso> Then you have those packages that MOM does, but can just be a sync anyway, due to Debian implementing ubuntu changes upstream.
<LaserJock> and then talk about MOM and dropped patches after the reader understands what a merge is
<TheMuso> Good point.
<LaserJock> my point with xcdroast is that the diffs are small so we could attach them to the wiki page
<TheMuso> Yeah true.
<sistpoty> ping ajmitch
<ajmitch> what'd I break?
<sistpoty> ajmitch: nothing... I wanted to ask for some help to figure out current unstable/dapper versions
<ajmitch> aha :)
<sistpoty> madison-lite setup is broken on tiber :(
<ajmitch> how may I help you?
<sistpoty> actually I'm in need of a script, which tells me dapper-version to given sourcepackage name (and same for unstable)... do you happen to have such a thing?
<ajmitch> yes, but it's a nasty slow hack at the moment until I rewrite it with python-apt
<ajmitch> which I can do this weekend if you want
<sistpoty> ajmitch: I need it only to update the merge list, so this will be run only once ;)
<ajmitch> oh right
<ajmitch> my script does comparisons for every package, if that's what you need?
<ajmitch> but I'm not sure if it's accurate
<ajmitch> it gives http://ajmitch.meta.net.nz/debuild/ubuntu/merge-tool/current/merges as output
<sistpoty> wow, that's a cool bonus... but actually I plan to import keybuks logs into the merge list at first
<sistpoty> and for this, I need to reset done merges to new, if the current unstable version is higher than the dapper version (at least that's the plan)
<sistpoty> (and I plan to add version numbers for dapper/unstable to the merge list, at least within the DB)
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> http://ajmitch.meta.net.nz/debuild/ubuntu/merge-tool/current/all.list is the full list actually
<ajmitch> it only printed output when there were version differences
<ajmitch> and the 'package is missing' is inaccurate also
<ajmitch> let me get the script..
<sistpoty> wow, this is cool... I guess once keybuks logs are in the db I'll feed this into the merge-list as well ;)
* ajmitch has it already on tiber, but it needs updated..
<sistpoty> ajmitch: don't push too much work into it... I've seen that siretart did s.th. cool for revu2 (revu-apt/revu-aptcache) which might do the trick as well
<ajmitch> bzr pull isn't doing much
<sistpoty> hehe, k
<ajmitch> yeah, my scripts are fairly worthless & superseded by others' work
<sistpoty> don't say so... for revu-apt(cache) I would still need some regex magic ;)
* ajmitch wonders if bzr is trying to use the ipv6 address
<ajmitch> looks like it was
<ajmitch> how annoying
<ajmitch> no psyco installed..
<ajmitch> ok, running it on tiber
<ajmitch> we'll see how it goes
<sistpoty> http://revu.tauware.de/~sistpoty/mergeWebTool/scripts/parseMoMFile.py
<sistpoty> I'll need to fill getDapperVersion/getUnstableVersion still...
<ajmitch> we'll just merge all these together in one grand crackpile
<sistpoty> yeehaa :)
<sistpoty> please sync universe from debian
<ajmitch> hm?
* ajmitch grabs the sources.gz independantly & loads them
<sistpoty> oh, I thought you mean we merge all packages to one ;)
<ajmitch> no, merge all the scripts
<sistpoty> :)
<ajmitch> ok, almost finished processing
<ajmitch> look in /home/ajmitch/scripts/current/merges
<zakame> hello all
<mhz> zakame: holas
<ajmitch> sorted the list now
<sistpoty> ajmitch: cool, thx!
<ajmitch> output could probably be tidied
<ajmitch> but at least it's predicatable
<ajmitch> spelling is bad today ;)
<sistpoty> hehe
<zakame> hi mhz
<sistpoty> same for mee
<ajmitch> sistpoty: all the nasty stuff is in ~/scripts/srcpkgs2merge.py
* sistpoty looks
<ajmitch> it's called 'how not to write python'
<sistpoty> hehe
<ajmitch> has the source scared you away yet?
<sistpoty> no... since I had to correct c++/sql exercises on university, I'm used to much scarier code ;)
<ajmitch> haha
* ajmitch is sure he wasn't awake when writing that, honestly
<sistpoty> *g*
<LaserJock> TheMuso: ping?
<LaserJock> TheMuso: I started a merging tutorial at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Merging but I wonder if it is too low-level
<sistpoty> yeehaa... pyfribidi is in unstable
<sistpoty> wow, and in dapper as well... now that was easy :)
<TheMuso> LaserJock: I will have a look.
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Perhaps we could suggest adding a deb-src line to one's apt sources.list file in their chroot, etc.
<TheMuso> Nice start.
<sistpoty> LaserJock: maybe you could add the hint to check BTS/malone for bugs when performing a merge
<TheMuso> And something should be added about claiming the merge as something that you are going to work on.
<TheMuso> I may have a chance a little later to add something to it.
<sistpoty> yep... TheMuso: you might want to check what's on MOTUToMerge
<mhz> Has any of you guys seen wiki:PythonEduLab ?
<LaserJock> TheMuso: what do you mean by adding deb-src lines in chroots?
<sistpoty> LaserJock: I guess he means the easy way of getting source packages from unstable/dapper/younameit
<leonel> Hello :  Can I safely use  squirrelmail and  php4  with breezy ?   will they be updated as soon a  security bug is found ?
<TheMuso> sistpoty: Yes.
<TheMuso> Thats what I was getting at.
<LaserJock> sistpoty: that seems like a mabye to much for one wiki page ;-)
<sistpoty> LaserJock: yep... but maybe you could refer to a subpage or s.th. like it ;)
<Evaso2> hi guys ii doesn't know if could be useful to monitoring this for MOTU: http://bjorn.haxx.se/debian/points.html
<sistpoty> leonel: yes, they will... but it may last a little longer for bugfixes to arrive than in debian
<Evaso2> new debian packages often are not uploaded to unstable untill some of this higghest transitions in testing are solved
<Evaso2> so if debian unstable is your source this is a good page to mintoring where help and patch are needed
<leonel> sistpoty, so ...  let's say is safer than debian ?
<leonel> sistpoty, how the updates get to universe ?
<sistpoty> leonel: usually updates get from debian to universe, so I'd consider debian safer than universe
<sistpoty> leonel: main however has its own security team, so I don't think this will apply for main
<sistpoty> +packages
<leonel> sistpoty, if there's a bug  and debian does nothing about it  ubuntu universe either ?
<sistpoty> leonel: if we know about it and can fix it, we fix it
<Evaso2> leonel: the bug could be reported in the launchpad and could be fixed in ubuntu by the motu team
<Evaso2> or the fix could be merged from debian
<Evaso2> leonel: depend if we are in a stable or in a development distribution
<sistpoty> leonel: the reason I'd consider debian more secure than unstable is, that they have (much) more manpower than we have
<sistpoty> s/unstable/universe
<leonel> I want to migrate from debian to ubuntu  but  I need packages in debian that are in ubuntu in  universe   and  need   php4  and squirrelmail  among others  that are in universe  that's why this  questions
<dholbach> doesnt packages.ubuntu.com know?
<Amaranth> security in main is a one man operation, how many people are actively working on it in universe?
<sistpoty> leonel: php4/squirrelmail are the exact same packages in universe and in debian(unstable)... so I guess a security fix if in debian would make it really fast to universe
<leonel> so basically with universe we depend  on debian
<leonel> for security updates
<leonel> ?
<dholbach> Amaranth: pitti does bits of it too, sometimes one of us realizes, that we need to get a fix from debian - it's no coherent team yet - want to work in the team too?
<Evaso2> leonel: remember that packages in unstable go to testing after the grace period and has no rc bugs
<Amaranth> dholbach: I don't even have time to work on alacarte anymore. ;/
<Amaranth> err, :/
<Evaso2> leonel: and testing has security support
<Evaso2> leonel: not only stable
<sistpoty> leonel: because debian has more manpower, it's more likely that they solve the problem in the first place. but we still can do security updates on are own
<sistpoty> s/on are own/on our own/
<leonel> sistpoty, Evaso2  thanks  for making me clear  how we are with  ubuntu universe and security
<sistpoty> you're welcome
<Evaso2> sistpoty: i think that popcon statistical data are similar in ubuntu and debian right?
<sistpoty> Evaso2: sorry don't know, but I guess yes
<dholbach> popcon.ubuntu.com
<Evaso2> imho the problem is to help packages to go from stable into testing for packages with high popcon stats http://bjorn.haxx.se/debian/points.html
<Evaso2> so we can have fresh unstable version as source of ubuntu universe packages
<whiprush> ajmitch: ping
<ajmitch> whiprush: pong
<Evaso2> if too many transition in testing are locked maintainer generally upload on experimental wating for is unstable package go into testing
<ajmitch> Evaso2: I'm sorry?
<whiprush> ajmitch: I am doing a reminder story for your -school session.
<ajmitch> whiprush: uh oh
<whiprush> Andrew has been packaging for Ubuntu and Debian for over X years, and will be tutoring would-be MOTUs on the finer points of making rock solid packages for our users.
<whiprush> help me fill in X.
<Evaso2> ajmitch: ?
<ajmitch> whiprush: umm, I started debian packaging about 3-4 years ago?
<ajmitch> and I'm not giving a howto session
<whiprush> ah, good I asked then.
<whiprush> fill me in
<ajmitch> one sec
<whiprush> ah, I see, more of an introduction.
<whiprush> I'm reading the announcement at the moment.
<whiprush> let me rescope it a bit
<ajmitch> an explanation of some of the underlying tools
<ajmitch> certainly not a 'do it this way'
<ajmitch> we don't want people doing packages the hard way
<whiprush> ok
<LaserJock> hi Kyral
<Kyral> hey
<whiprush> ajmitch: intended audience?
<ajmitch> umm
<whiprush> ok, how does this sound:
<whiprush> Andrew Mitchell (ajmitch) will be chairing the session "Packaging without debhelper and/or CDBS". Andrew is a Debian Developer and MOTU, and will be focusing on NOT using some of the prepackaged tools to make packages. The intent is to give participants a deeper understanding of lower-level packaging techniques that are useful in any packager's toolkit.
<whiprush> ugh, I say packager/packaging too much.
<Kyral> Ow...
* whiprush fixes.
<jsgotangco> hey whiprush
<ajmitch> Kamion's suggestion for title -  "a guide to the guts of the Debian packaging toolchain"
<whiprush> that sound right?
<jsgotangco> are you still in the army?
<whiprush> hi jerome!
<whiprush> ajmitch: oh, GUTS. good word.
<whiprush> jsgotangco: not since 4 years.
<whiprush> jsgotangco: My dad scanned a bunch of old pics so I flickr'ed them
<jsgotangco> ahhh
<jsgotangco> that's why you looked so buff there
<whiprush> jsgotangco: I was very skinny at one point.
<whiprush> now I'm just a chunky blogger who fanbois ajmitch.
<ajmitch> hah
<whiprush> Andrew Mitchell (ajmitch) will be chairing the session "Packaging without debhelper and/or CDBS". Andrew is a Debian Developer and MOTU, and will be focusing on the raw guts of the Debian packaging toolchain. The intent is to give participants a deeper understanding of packaging techniques to further educate the pool of budding Ubuntu developers.
* ajmitch won't have any fans after this weekend ;)
<whiprush> better?
<ajmitch> not quite as raw as packaging without dpkg-dev
<jsgotangco> hehe
<ajmitch> but looks reasonable I guess
<whiprush> don't worry, it'll run thru jdub.
<whiprush> he can add spice. :)
<ajmitch> hah
<mhz> \sh_away: ajmitch: MOTU-school has been wikied http://wiki.edubuntu.org/MOTU/News
<jsgotangco> wow the KoreanTeam wiki is full of activity at the moment
<whiprush> jsgotangco: heh
<whiprush> remember when you could follow everything in the ubuntu universe in 20 minutes?
<jsgotangco> i guess i did make an impression
<whiprush> did you speak there?
<jsgotangco> heh you don't read planet!
<whiprush> it was down today
<ajmitch> mhz: if you're going to link to my wiki page, I guess I'd better update it
* whiprush catches up
<jsgotangco> whiprush: i stayed there for 4 days and represented ubuntu along with other speakers from Xandros and Mozilla
<ajmitch> whiprush: dude, jerome is an international speaker
<jsgotangco> whiprush: you will like the public phone terminal picture
<ajmitch> you should fanboi him on the fridge
<jsgotangco> ajmitch: :P
<ajmitch> it's great being in the presence of celebrities :)
<whiprush> jsgotangco: WOW!
<whiprush> that's awesome
<whiprush> I'm blogging about razors and you're like, hanging out with Asa.
<whiprush> that's awesome!
<ajmitch> haha
<jsgotangco> whiprush: Asa is like a saner jdub heh
<whiprush> I've not met him.
<whiprush> He got me into open source though.
* ajmitch will get his chance to hand around greatness at LCA in jan
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: booked your LCA tickets?
<whiprush> Back around mozilla milestone 12 or something, he like, explained oss to me, been with it ever since.
<jsgotangco> ajmitch: well i'm going back to brisbane next week so i'll check
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: you might still be able to get a direct brisbane->dunedin flight
<whiprush> jsgotangco: man, that's so awesome.
<jsgotangco> whiprush: business class is awesome man
<ajmitch> and you would notice the temperature drop :)
<whiprush> heh.
<ajmitch> 'come to LCA & hear sabdfl speak'
<whiprush> jsgotangco: I envy you, I wish I could do more ubuntu talks.
<jsgotangco> whiprush: yeah but he hinted he wants to work with ubuntu really...
<whiprush> that's excellent.
<jsgotangco> it was from asa i learned more about the mozilla branding thing...
<jsgotangco> and why we had such a crummy logo for firefox...
<whiprush> heh, yeah
<ajmitch> and why our patched, slow, broken firefox doesn't have the mozilla name?
<jsgotangco> asa's got a big job to do in korea, that country is like 90% IE country
<jsgotangco> good thing there is a big local mozilla community
<whiprush> did you have lots of people asking questions after your talk?
<jsgotangco> people? heck we had the korean IT press!
<jsgotangco> heh
<whiprush> you're the man.
<jsgotangco> but yeah, the language barrier was so hard to overcome though
<whiprush> I can imagine.
<jsgotangco> we were told that the gov't would file an antitrust suit anytime
<jsgotangco> sure enough they did yesterday
<jsgotangco> against MS
<whiprush> heh.
* ajmitch so needs jsgotangco's autograph :)
<jsgotangco> oh stop it
<jsgotangco> heh
<whiprush> "I know Jerome"
<whiprush> my new .sig
<jsgotangco> gyahhh
<sistpoty> args... with updated merge-list (only from keybuks logs, that may still miss s.th.) we're up to 207 merges again (from 130)
<sistpoty> tomorrow I will update the merge-list (I just did a local dry-run), so as usual expect some tracebacks ;)
* sistpoty is off to bed now
<sistpoty> gn8 everyone
<bmonty> hi minghua
<minghua> hello bmonty
<bmonty> minghua: stardict has been synced and built on all arches
<minghua> bmonty: great, thanks for checking
<minghua> bmonty: I'm going to close the bug
<bmonty> minghua: yeah, thats why I was telling you :)
<minghua> :-)
* minghua noticed that scim got built on all arches as well
<ajmitch> yay,n ew printer on the home network to try & get working
<bmonty> laser?
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> plugge into an apple AP
<bmonty> nice, I want to get a laser for the house
<LaserJock> hi minghua and bmonty
<bmonty> I get used to the lasers at work and then I have to print something on my POS inkjet
<bmonty> hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> bmonty: I was lucky enough to convince my advisor to get a color laser for the lab
<Amaranth> how do i mark someone that i am requesting a specific person to come to the next CC meeting?
<Amaranth> just put it on the wiki and contact them so everyone knows?
<Amaranth> err, mark somewhere
<bmonty> LaserJock: color lasers are a love/hate relationship :)
<minghua> hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> bmonty: it's sure nice for posters and presentations
<bmonty> they make nice printouts, but they kick you in the ass to buy cartridges and fuser kits and etc
<LaserJock> bmonty: that's what NSF is for ;-)
<bmonty> my office has an older HP color laser that takes about 30 mins to warm up for the first printout in the morning
<Amaranth> this is why i have a B&W laser and buy a new ink-jet everytime it's ink runs out
<Amaranth> because a new ink-jet printer with ink is cheaper than ink
<LaserJock> lol
<bmonty> of course my boss forgets that and sends jobs that he needs for his meeting in 15 mins and is upset that the printer has been "Calibrating" for 10 :)
<LaserJock> bmonty: we had one of those down the hall and we didn't have a key so we had to ask the boss every time we needed to print something
<StevenK> bmonty: HP LaserJet, right?
<bmonty> StevenK: yeah
<LaserJock> StevenK: right
* StevenK fondly remembers the HP Colour LaserJet 4550 work used to have.
<ajmitch> StevenK: slides built fine :)
<StevenK> Whee
<ajmitch> sorry about the delay in asking for sync
<LaserJock> StevenK: yeah, I think that might of been what we had
<StevenK> ajmitch: So, my u.c e-mail doesn't work yet. When you say sign the CoC, do you mean GPG sign and upload to LP?
<StevenK> ajmitch: It's cool. I haven't done any merges since the CC and feel guilty.
<ajmitch> StevenK: yes, sign & upload
<LaserJock> StevenK: I don't think mine is working yet either
<LaserJock> StevenK: Kyral too I think
<ajmitch> elmo is the one to bug if you're feeling brave
<ajmitch> StevenK: ah, you've been doing far more than some of us have :)
* StevenK denies everything.
* ajmitch should hang up his gpg keys & relax
<StevenK> I'm wondering if my adding a Files section to my xorg config will fix my emacs problems.
<StevenK> But I can't find out until I go home.
* minghua still uses the HP color LaserJet 4550 in the department office
<StevenK> minghua: We uhh, dropped ours while we were moving offices.
<StevenK> For about 6 months, there was a big stain of blue toner on the concrete in front of our door.
<ajmitch> hehe
<LaserJock> StevenK: ours just died with blue toner all over
<LaserJock> StevenK: I wonder if it is a common thing
* StevenK relaxes, as the box he killed this morning has been replaced.
<minghua> poor printer :-(
<ajmitch> what do people think, should I update checkinstall to close some bugs? ;)
<LaserJock> we got a 2550 in our lab now so I'm happy
<StevenK> Stressful twenty minutes with two boxes open in front of me, swapping over all manner of hardware.
<StevenK> We bought a Xerox color printer. Huge thing.
<minghua> ajmitch: I am actually glad that checkinstall is not working in dapper ;-)
<ajmitch> StevenK: you killed a box?
<StevenK> ajmitch: I bumped the desk it was on, and it powered down, and refused to power back up.
<ajmitch> ah
<ajmitch> I've seen worse
<StevenK> So yes, "killed". :-)
<ajmitch> such as being able to smell the smoke from the box 3 days later :)
<ajmitch> the box did still work
<ajmitch> but the ISA slot was melted
<StevenK> ajmitch: I remember going to pull the power cord out of a power supply and seen sparks...
<LaserJock> to bad azeem isn't awake. I'm using ghemical a ton today.
<ajmitch> sparks are fun
<StevenK> At that point I hit the deck and ripped out the power cord from the wall.
* ajmitch recall waking up at 3amone morning last year to have a monitor nearly go on fire
<StevenK> Wheee.
<ajmitch> it was on my desk, in my bedroom
<ajmitch> I was given it because it was a bit broken :)
<StevenK> I've had that happen yet. I've zapped a montior and seen it lose its special smoke.
<StevenK> s/\(I've\)/\1 not/
* ajmitch had to borrow a bigger monitor to replace it
<LaserJock> once when I was a kid my brother and I tryed to plug a 12V motor into a wall socket. That was fun :-)
<ajmitch> currently using the 21" crt
* StevenK is sitting in front of a 17" LCD.
<StevenK> Niiiice monitor.
* TheMuso hopes to replace his 21 CRT with a 21 LCD when they are more affordable.
<ajmitch> I was pricing up a dual-DVI card & 2 LCD panels
<StevenK> I'm hoping to replace my Dual Athlon with an AMD64 soon.
* ajmitch has to make do with a 21 & 17" CRT
<StevenK> I only have a 17" CRT at home.
* ajmitch just has an athlon 1800+ XP
<ajmitch> almost fast enough to compile stuff on :)
<StevenK> ajmitch: I don't think that is fast enough for OpenOffice. :-P
<ajmitch> it barely is
<LaserJock> ajmitch: my ubuntu box is a 1800+ XP. I do all my pbuilder on it
<ajmitch> I need more than my 1GB of RAM for OOo2
<StevenK> Mmmm, dual Athlon with a 1Gb of RAM.
<Kyral> My friend is getting me a deal on one of those nice Sun monitors
<StevenK> I still love how my video card has more RAM than my first desktop.
<StevenK> (24Mb vs 128Mb)
<Kyral> I still love how my GBA has more computing power than the first Apollo mission
<StevenK> Muahahaha
<jsgotangco> hahaha
<LaserJock> StevenK: yeah, I think the first computer I had had 4 Mb memory and a 120 MB hard drive
<StevenK> My first machine was a TRS-80. :-)
<StevenK> With a whole 64Kb!
<ajmitch> I love how my video card has more RAM than my first computer I was using had hard drive space
* bmonty had a Apple IIe
<ajmitch> the first one I used regularly was a 286
* jsgotangco had a trs-80 too..the portable one
<jsgotangco> with the 4 liner display
<StevenK> Mmm, my first regular machine was an XT.
<StevenK> Followed by a 386SX when it died.
<ajmitch> I think I've still got a working 386SX in the cupboard here
<ajmitch> & a 486 which I put minix on :)
<TheMuso> Our first machine was a 486 DX33 with 8MB RAM.
<minghua> So ubuntu is going to keep the name of OO.o2?
<ajmitch> minghua: hm? why wouldn't it?
<ajmitch> I didn't hear of trademark issues with that
<StevenK> Firefox has trademark issues?
<minghua> ajmitch: just don't like to see the name differs with debian
<ajmitch> yes
<StevenK> So, Iceweasel it is, then.
<minghua> ajmitch: no, didn't mean that
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> I think we can use 'firefox'
<ajmitch> but not mozilla firefox
<minghua> so, it's going to be like, debian firefox, ubuntu firefox, etc.?
<ajmitch> no, just firefox
<LaserJock> ajmitch: minix was the first *nix I ever tried. I installed it on my parents old 386
<Kyral> I think I have a 286 in the attic
<Kyral> like 4 MB of HD space
<ajmitch> I think the very least that ubuntu will run on is 486DX
<ajmitch> it might work on an SX, I can't recall
<Kyral> I wonder if I can put PTYLinux on it
* bmonty hates trying to find places that will recycle his old hardware
<LaserJock> yeah our university charges $35 USD to dispose of old computers
<bmonty> thats steep...the place I found charges $0.30/lb
<LaserJock> bmonty: course we are going to have to start paying for disposal of a lot of chemicals because of EPA and OSHA
<LaserJock> I guess you can't just find a nice Nevada desert to dump in anymore ;-)
<bmonty> LaserJock: at least your sink drains will stay clean!
<LaserJock> bmonty: I don't know. It's amazing what a bunch of Pirahna acid will clean off ;-)
<Kyral> goodnight MOTU!
<bmonty> night Kyral
<LaserJock> cya Kyral even though I'm not a MOTU
<minghua> Hmm, who was I talking to about the autotools-dev dependency and dh-make issue?
<minghua> I think it was sirehart
<Kyral> LaserJock: you will be soon enough my friend :D
<bmonty> time for me to hit the rack as well...night all
<minghua> there is a nice conversation on debian-mentors right now
<LaserJock> Kyral: you probably will be before me
<minghua> good night bmonty
<LaserJock> cya bmonty have a good sleep
<jsgotangco> night
<minghua> geez, building octave in pbuilder really hurts.  it takes 10 minutes to set up tetex :-(
<StevenK> Whee. Adding Files section makes emacs happy about fonts.
<minghua> StevenK: :-)  it sounds your emacs is still using X core fonts there
<StevenK> Well, how do I tell Xemacs to not use X core fonts?
<minghua> (disclaimer: I don't use emacs at all)  don't know about Xemacs, but for emacs there are some patch scattering around that make xft support possible
<sivang> morning all
<minghua> hello sivang
<sivang> hey minghua
<zakame> rainy afternoon :)
<dholbach> good morning
<zakame> good day dholbach :)
<dholbach> :)
<shawarma> Good morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey shawarma
<TheMuso> Hey dholbach.
<dholbach> hey guys :)
<dholbach> you're all busy already, i guess? :)
<shawarma> Of course. :-)
<ajmitch> evening
<jsgotangco> hello dholbach
<ajmitch> jerome!
<dholbach> hey jerome, andrew
* ajmitch resumes fanboi mode :)
* jsgotangco has been getting wiki updates all day on KoreanTeam
<zakame> just got in, I was out the whole day
* ajmitch has just been to the pub
<dholbach> jsgotangco: they're amazing
<jsgotangco> i guess i did something good
<ajmitch> man
<ajmitch> there seems to be a few people interested in this MOTU school
<ajmitch> lots of people who we haven't seen around the motu channels
<TheMuso> I am also interested, however the time that it is going to happen doesn't suit me. I will read up on it afterwards.
* jsgotangco fanbois the next he-man ajmitch 
* ajmitch was hoping for a ncie small gathering
<TheMuso> I have learnt a fair bit just by reading package metadata files anyway.
<ajmitch> TheMuso: why doesn't it suit?
<ajmitch> too early?
<TheMuso> Too early in the morning, and I am going out the night before anyways.
<zakame> will hopefully be there
<ajmitch> right, 4am for you will be a bit early ;)
<TheMuso> Yeah.
<dholbach> i volunteered to give a motu introductory talk (no teaching) at umeet.uninet.edu
<ajmitch> it'll be 6am for me
<shawarma> I'm just catching up on the ubuntu-devel mailinglist and just found an e-mail from Seveas saying that the MOTU's soon will start nominating people instead of having people apply to become MOTU's. When is "soon" and how does this nomination thing work? Should one ask to be nominated or will it just happen when you least expect it?
<ajmitch> dholbach: rock!
<TheMuso> YOu guys are 2 hours in front of us aren't you?
<jsgotangco> scholl sucks!
* dholbach had a meeting a 3am
* dholbach needs his coffee
<ajmitch> shawarma: it's not so much picking people at random
<TheMuso> dholbach: Yeah well I have the a11y team meetings at 1:30AM.
<ajmitch> you still apply yourself
<dholbach> TheMuso: we should rotate times
<shawarma> ajmitch: But to the motu team instead of tb?
<ajmitch> but we have to vouch for you
<zakame> dholbach: w00t!
<ajmitch> shawarma: no, you'd probably just ask around if you're ready for MOTU, and get support for the TB meeting
<TheMuso> dholbach: I will make a note to bring it up when the next meeting time/date is discussed on list.
<shawarma> ajmitch: Oh, right.
<zakame> er TB gets to vote, but iiuc MOTU nominates :)
<dholbach> i think that's a good idea
<ajmitch> shawarma: we're just trying to stop random people who nobody knows from joining up
<jsgotangco> wooo \sh blog on a roll again
<dholbach> maybe we should have short meetings before the TB, where everybody could have his say on the motu wannabes
<dholbach> so we cover people who have worked with them
<TheMuso> ajmitch: Understandably. One has to work up the ladder of privelages in terms of packaging uploads.
<ajmitch> TheMuso: we don't want to waste the TB's time
<ajmitch> which is what can happen
<TheMuso> Yeah that too.
<dholbach> and if one of us says, come on, better wait another two weeks, we should respect that
<shawarma> I see. Well then, am I ready for MOTU?
<ajmitch> we can often see when people are not quite there yet
<dholbach> shawarma: that's something we should discuss (as a team) as i said
<ajmitch> shawarma: do you think you are?
<dholbach> shawarma: i didn't work particularly much with you to be honest
<ajmitch> do you feel that you could do uploads to universe unsuprevised, without breaking things? :)
<ajmitch> neither did I
<ajmitch> which is why we need wider feedback as the team grows
<ajmitch> I think I've seen a couple of debdiffs from you
<shawarma> ajmitch: I think I could. I'm not too proud to ask around if I
<shawarma> whoops
<dholbach> we should implement that as a process
<shawarma> ajmitch: I think I could. I'm not too proud to ask around if I'm in doubt about anything.
<dholbach> meet before the tb meeting, talk about our motu wannabes
<zakame> hm what's a nifty name for a MOTU Java Team? :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: mailing list or irc?
<TheMuso> zakame: JMOTU?
<lifeless> Mo'JAVA
<dholbach> maybe irc is more homely
<ajmitch> we have a good spread of timezones as well :)
<TheMuso> Java Masters Of The Universe
<jsgotangco> Java Motu
<ajmitch> evening lifeless
<lifeless> ola
* jsgotangco creates Ruby MOTU
<jsgotangco> oh wait
<jsgotangco> there's already one
<ajmitch> lifeless: getting nice & warm over there now?
<zakame> Er I picked "MOTU Java Growers" :)
<dholbach> get all cracking in motu media and motu security :)
<shawarma> ajmitch: Most of my questions these days are about how to do stuff because I'm not a MOTU. I'm pretty comfortable with most of the technical stuff.
<zakame> hi lifeless :)
<lifeless> boiling as a dead crackmonkey in an acid pit
<lifeless> zakame: hey
<ajmitch> lifeless: yeah, I'm glad to still be in dunedin
* TheMuso agrees with lifeless. Yesterday was a scorcher.
<ajmitch> and it's warm enough here for me
<jsgotangco> 35C up?
<ajmitch> shawarma: what sort of questions?
<lifeless> jsgotangco: up
<jsgotangco> ugghhhh
<zakame> awww
<ajmitch> 40+ now?
<jsgotangco>  damn
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: brisbane will be hotter
<TheMuso> Not necessarily.
<jsgotangco> ajmitch: please nooo....
* jsgotangco is flying to brisbane next week
<shawarma> ajmitch: Who to ask to do syncing, what to include in by debdiffs for merges.. That kind of stuff. a MOTU would just ask elmo to sync, and just apply the debdiff and upload.. That kind of thing.
<ajmitch> TheMuso: I've only been there once, but I thought it was consistently quite warm?
<dholbach> shawarma: how long are you with the motu team for now?
* dholbach can't really teall
<dholbach> shawarma: how many uploads did you get sponsored?
<shawarma> dholbach: On and off for.. 4-5 months.
<ajmitch> dholbach: quite awhile
<TheMuso> ajmitch: I don't know, but thats what I have seen in weather reports sometimes.
<shawarma> dholbach: Dunno. Lost count.
<ajmitch> I remember him around during breezy
<dholbach> *nod* me too
<dholbach> but i wasn't sure
<ajmitch> shawarma: did you get some sponsored for breezy?
<dholbach> because, as you said, you were on and off
<ajmitch> I don't see your name on breezy-changes
<shawarma> ajmitch: Sure.
<shawarma> ajmitch: Even one that came up WAY after the freeze. :-)
<ajmitch> syncs or debdiff uploads with your name?
<shawarma> ajmitch: The mailing-list?
<dholbach> which freeze?
<ajmitch> I'm just trying to look
<ajmitch> yes
<shawarma> dholbach: Er... Don't remember what it was called.. There was a freeze at some point that was supposed to mean that no new source should enter breezy.
<ajmitch> you'll want to link to those uploads on your wiki page if possible
<ajmitch> UVF
<dholbach> ah i see
<shawarma> ajmitch: That sounds right.
<dholbach> ajmitch: good idea
<shawarma> ajmitch: No, I'm not on the mailing-list right now. I used the web interface.
<dholbach> web interface?
<shawarma> ajmitch: I will.
<dholbach> for reading mails?
<ajmitch> shawarma: I'm not saying about subscribing
<ajmitch> I'm talking about uploads
<shawarma> ajmitch: Oh, right.
<ajmitch> I only see 1 with your name on it
<zakame> er is it just me or is ftp.uk.debian.org down?
<ajmitch> for dapper
<ajmitch> & none for breezy
<shawarma> dholbach: For certain mailing lists. I'm behind a satanic firewall, so reading actual e-mail is not always too easy.
<dholbach> i see
<dholbach> shawarma: but ajmitch had a good idea: link to the uploads you did and everybody's happy
<shawarma> ajmitch: I was added to the white list only about a month ago.
<dholbach> shawarma: do you have something on REVU?
<ajmitch> shawarma: debdiffs weren't under your name?
<shawarma> dholbach: Sure. look for sh@warma.dk og sh@linux2go.dk
<dholbach> shawarma: no YOU list them on a wiki page :)
<shawarma> ajmitch: The changelog was, but not necessarily the debdiff.
<ajmitch> shawarma: ok, you'll need to hunt them out
<shawarma> dholbach: Oh, I thought you wanted to see them to look at the quality..
<dholbach> oh ok
<dholbach> sorry
<dholbach> yes
<dholbach> cool
<dholbach> i'll look at them at REVU day
<dholbach> then i'll get more of an overview
* ajmitch quickly runs grepmail to try & find some
<minghua> anybody seen warnings like this: "dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: format of liboctave.so not recognized"?
<shawarma> I don't mind too much if I'm not a MOTU. I just think I'll be of more use that way.
<zakame> minghua: er something wrogn with the shlibs.local file?
<dholbach> shawarma: we all do and we DO mind
<dholbach> shawarma: it's just hard for me to say yes, when i didn't work much with you, you know?
<shawarma> dholbach: Sure, sure.
<dholbach> shawarma: but i'll review your packages on REVU at the weekend
<shawarma> shawarma: It wouldn't be a proper review process if I weren't reviewed. :-D
* ajmitch still only spots about 5 or so uploads which mention your email address or name
<ajmitch> on breezy-changes, that is
<shawarma> ajmitch: That's possible. Sometimes I just upload a bugfix to bugzilla without changelog changes.
<ajmitch> link to those if possible
<ajmitch> you need to have evidence of work done to convince the TB (and MOTUs)
<shawarma> ajmitch: I'm not saying that I did huge amounts of uploads or anything.. I did a few, I want to do more, and I just want to help out the best and most efficient way I can.
<shawarma> ajmitch: Yeah. I'll update my wiki real soon.
<ajmitch> for upload rights you generally need to have a few uploads sponsored so that we can guage quality
<shawarma> and I can totally understand if you guys want to see more of my stuff before granting me direct acces to the repo.
<ajmitch> probably a good idea to get a few more done
<minghua> zakame: Hmm, there doesn't seem to be a shlibs.local file, will investigate further
<ajmitch> the TB are stricter than we are :)
<shawarma> ajmitch: and so they should! :-)
<zakame> minghua: er I think that's auto-generated... is there an existing shlibs file as well?
<ajmitch> well, we should try & be as strict as the TB
<ajmitch> to avoid disappointing people at the TB stage
<dholbach> shawarma: you'll become a MOTU
<shawarma> dholbach: I agree. I'm just wondering if there'll be any point in applying this time (I think there's a TB meeting next week) or if I should rather wait a while..
<shawarma> dholbach: But take a look on REVU day and let me know.
<minghua> zakame: no, this is octave2.1 source package, I believe it builds liboctave.so
<dholbach> shawarma: yeah
<minghua> zakame: it's not in /usr/lib though, just in /usr/lib/octave-2.1.72/
<dholbach> minghua: do you build shlibs anywhere?
<minghua> zakame: so maybe just a missing -X option in dh_makeshlibs
<zakame> minghua: hm, probably so
<zakame> have you tried that?
<minghua> no, the warning is dh_shlibdeps, not dh_makeshlibs
<minghua> zakame: not yet, it takes 2 hours to build....
<zakame> whoa
<zakame> more than it takes me to compile the kernel :(
<minghua> dholbach: I think no, no shlibs file at all
<dholbach> minghua: maybe it's a reminder to split-that-damn-library-out! :)
* minghua coughs
<zakame> hehe
<shawarma> minghua: I've seen that error before..
<minghua> liboctave.so.2.1.72: ELF 32-bit LSB shared object, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), stripped
<shawarma> minghua: I've done a little digging and it seems that you'd get it if the .soin question doesn't have a soname defined..
<ajmitch> zakame: haha, I love your team description :)
<minghua> so it seems the shared library is not that bad
<minghua> shawarma: thanks for the pointer
<ajmitch> 'Grow coffee for the Ubuntu Java community' ;)
<shawarma> minghua: Try objdump -p $file
<minghua>   SONAME      liboctave.so
<minghua> shawarma: it does have
<shawarma> minghua: but without a version.
<minghua> shawarma: maybe, but I really don't know enough to dig into this
<minghua> it's just warnings in building after all
<shawarma> minghua: Gimme a minute.
<zakame> ajmitch: thanks :D
* ajmitch gets bored & files a few more merge bugs :)
<minghua> ajmitch: yes, you are spamming my inbox! :-)
<dholbach_> ajmitch: triage bugs! thanks!
<dholbach_> ajmitch: fix bugs!
<shawarma> shawarma: The error comes from dpkg-shlibdeps.pl in the dpkg distribution. It's quite cryptic to me, but it seems to have something to do with the NEEDED headers..
<dholbach_> ajmitch: review packges!
<shawarma> Why do I always write to myself?
<ajmitch> dholbach_: haha, I'll do all that ;)
<shawarma> minghua: That was for you of course.
<dholbach_> ajmitch: when? :)
<ajmitch> dholbach_: seems that my Christmas break will only be 1 week away from computers
<ajmitch> and about 2 weeks of no work
<dholbach_> 3 weeks of holidays?
<ajmitch> yeah
<dholbach_> tsssssss :)
<dholbach_> ;)
* ajmitch will be going away in 2 weeks
<ajmitch> so I've only got until then to clear up all the merges!
<dholbach_> zakame: thanks for working the java team out
* ajmitch uploads another merge - first of the zope batch
<minghua> shawarma: http://pastebin.com/453774
<minghua> shawarma: ring any bells?
<ajmitch> dholbach_: how long will your boss let you away from a computer? ;)
<dholbach_> 24th-1st
<ajmitch> ah nice
<ajmitch> I should be back home about the 31st
<dholbach_> so 27th-31st are holidays
<ajmitch> hopefully not too many serious bugs come up in my packages :)
<shawarma> Argh, I've got a lecture now. I'll be back in a couple of hours.
<dholbach_> shawarma: enjoy
<minghua> shawarma: thanks for the help
<ajmitch> dholbach_: remember that this is our summer holiday
<dholbach_> yeah true
<ajmitch> we don't get a break in the middle of the year :)
<minghua> I am going to bed anyway.  I'll just install this octave thing tomorrow, and if it works, I am not going to worry about these warning messages
<ajmitch> I am a glutton for punishment!
<zakame> good night minghua :D
<ajmitch> I just grabbed all the py* merge bugs
<zakame> hope all goes well
<minghua> hmm, maybe I should go read the debian build logs
<minghua> zakame: yeah, thanks, and good night
<zakame> ajmitch: wtg!
<zakame> :)
<ajmitch> zakame: someone has to prop up the MOTU Python team! ;0
<zakame> ajmitch: er I was also thinking of a MOTU Camel Drivers (motuperl ;)
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUPython
<dholbach_> haha
<ajmitch> a very small team at the moment for python
<ajmitch> considering how many python packages we have
* zakame really needs to grok python
<ajmitch> although everyone is free to work on them (and they do)
<zakame> I've got a python question: is eyed3 ok to be built as arch: all, or any?
<zakame> siretart posed that to me, and I was only following the previous merge of it
<ajmitch> not knowing the package..
<ajmitch> what is it currently?
<zakame> well, at either case, the package builds well, and works too... its currently at arch: all
<zakame> though Sid has arch: any
<ajmitch> arch: all in ubuntu, or debian?
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> there might be a reason for that
<zakame> though that wasn't stated in the changelog :(
<ajmitch> I know I've looked at this before..
<ajmitch> I'd set it arch: any just to remove the delta from debian
<ajmitch> even if it's not right, we can still respect the debian maintainer's choice in such things
<zakame> yes, that's also my gut feeling too, to minimize the diff
<zakame> ok, thanks! :D
<ajmitch> sigh, a 250K merged debdiff
<ajmitch> nasty
<ajmitch> it doesn't make sense for it to be so, since the only ubuntu change was to debian/control
* ajmitch happily ignores MoM output then :)
<zakame> indeed
<siretart> morning
<zakame> hi siretart :D
<ajmitch> morning siretart
<siretart> huhu zakame, hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> great, now I've got a long list of about 60+ merges to do
<ajmitch> why do I do it?
<dholbach> DO IT! :)
<dholbach> just sync them all
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> no way
<dholbach> :-p
<ajmitch> they need love
<ajmitch> lots of tender love
<TheMuso> I still can't understand why some of you take on several dozen merges at one time.
<ajmitch> TheMuso: because we're gluttons for punishment
<ajmitch> and it's easier to grab a batch & burn through them quickly
<TheMuso> Riiiight.
<TheMuso> Yeah, when you are experienced at it, that makes sense.
<ajmitch> for zope, you'd need to understand the packaging changes involved
<ajmitch> since it was switching to zope-common & zope-debhelper
<ajmitch> only a few of us were silly enough to get involved there back in hoary & breezy
<azeem> ...
<ajmitch> hey azeem
<zakame> hello azeem :D
<azeem> maybe there was a conclusion, but is it alright to skip the clean: target while preparing a source package?  And does dpkg-buildpackage support that?
<ajmitch> I don't think it's alright, it's mandated in policy isn't it?
<azeem> I know the buildds run it prior to build:
* azeem looks up policy again
<ajmitch> At a minimum, required targets are the ones called by dpkg-buildpackage, namely, clean, binary, binary-arch, binary-indep, and build
<ajmitch> 4.8
<azeem> well, ok
<azeem> but that just says it has to be present
<zakame> bbl folks :D
<azeem> because it is potentionally called by dpkg-buildpackage
<ajmitch> I guess you could skip it
<ajmitch> people do call debian/rules binary
<TheMuso> Cleaning before building is a must IMO, and yeah I am pretty sure it is defined somewhere. :)
<ajmitch> for some reason
<azeem> TheMuso: that is fine.  I was talking about cleaning before making a source package
<ajmitch> some packages are hopeless at that
<TheMuso> Ah ok.
<azeem> so the config.{guess,sub} updates in clean: don't pollute the .diff.gz
<ajmitch> the clean target breaks all sorts of things
<azeem> I think we are moving away from that slowly
<azeem> frobbing Build-Depends in clean: is outlawed now
<ajmitch> iirc yada gave me nightmares with that
<siretart> I rather tend to filterdiff config.{guess,sub} out when reviewing such diffs
<azeem> s/with that//
<siretart> yada... brrrrr
<azeem> isn't it that saner build systems (like CDBS?) revert the config.{sub,guess} update in clean?
<azeem> and only do it in build:
* azeem is not sure
<azeem> anyway, not a big problem
<ajmitch> yeah, cdbs is fairly sane
<ajmitch> but dh_make has generated lots of bad templates
<azeem> dh_make should just include /usr/share/cdbs/1/debhelper.mk by default and be done
<doko> is there _any_ reason that motu's upload NOT with -ubuntu release suffixes?
<dholbach> -XbuildY?
<ajmitch> doko: they shouldn't do it
<ajmitch> well, apart from the build case
<siretart> dholbach: are you talking about mplayer-skins?
<siretart> argl
<dholbach> i'm not talking about anything
<siretart> doko: are you talking about mplayer-skins?
<doko> Daniel T Chen, Andrew Mitchell, Sebastian Droege, Stephan Herrmann, ...
<siretart> sorry, daniel
<ajmitch> doko: what did I do?
<ajmitch> a lot of the ones on dapper changes are syncs
<ajmitch> and they appear in our names, but are signed by the sync key
<doko> ahh, ok
<ajmitch> I'm guessing that's what you're seeing
<siretart> doko: I uploaded mplayer-skins without -ubuntu suffix, but that was on purpose. I dont expect debian to introduce such a package short to mid-term
<doko> siretart: IMO that doesn't matter
<siretart> ok
<ajmitch> doko: how is your python roadmap looking?
<doko> ajmitch: look at #u-m
<ajmitch> -meeting?
<siretart> when will debian start using python 2.4 as default? quite a lot of diffs are because of that
* ajmitch just saw deferred, no other info
<ajmitch> since it'll be a large change to implement in universe if we decide to do it
<Treenaks> Seveas: mogge
<ajmitch> hi Seveas, Treenaks
<Seveas> moin
<Treenaks> ajmitch: hi
<TheMuso> Question. Is it common practice/policy to capitalize the first letter of the first word in a package description? I have noitce one or two packages in merges where an Ubuntu change has been to change that.
<ajmitch> those sort of changes are unnecessary
<TheMuso> Ok, thanks./
<dholbach> lintian is just on crack, when it complains stuff like that
<ajmitch> it's just following policy
* ajmitch wonders if he should wait until after Christmas for these python merges - for the automagic version selection 
<ajmitch> oh well
<ajmitch> something to worry about tomorrow
<ajmitch> night all
<tseng> bye ajmitch
<TheMuso> ajmitch: Night.
<bojan> hi!
<jpatrick> bojan: hello
<TheMuso> Question. If I am reporting a bug, and then attaching a debdiff to fix the bug, should I assign it to any particular team? It is not a merge.
<jsgotangco> laterz
<crimsun> cya
<Gloubiboulga> hi
<crimsun> hi
* spacey cries
<spacey> python-profiler is missing in hoary
<spacey> think doable to install/build the breezy one in hoary or will hell break lose?
<spacey> i have no idea how crucial it is to python itself
<crimsun> huh?
<crimsun> http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?searchon=names&version=all&exact=1&keywords=python2.4-profiler
<spacey> oh
<spacey> multiverse
<spacey> in breezy its in universe ;x
<spacey> oh its not
<crimsun> ...no, it's in multiverse.
<spacey> i'm just blind
<spacey> :P
<spacey> sorry
<spacey> well at least my mystery is solved:P
<crimsun> :)
<TheMuso> If any MOTU is about and looking for something to do, I have reported a bug against big-cursor, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/big-cursor/+bug/5533 -- I would appreciate a MOTU reviewing the diff, and sponsoring an upload. Thanks.
<Ubugtu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Malone: Connection to Malone bugzilla failed: timed out
<shawarma> I think I fell asleep 4 times during that lecture..
<shawarma> Inhomogenous second order linear differential equations... ZZzzzzz....
<crimsun> TheMuso: uploaded, thanks.
<TheMuso> crimsun: Thanks.
<crimsun> np
<TheMuso> Yakes. DIdn't realise I missed preinst/postrm path changes.
<crimsun> new debdiff against 3.4ubuntu1, please
<TheMuso> Thats what I was thinking.
<TheMuso> Just got to test in chroot and pbuilder. :)
<looksaus> wat are the most likely place and time I can meet sabdfl on irc?
<TheMuso> crimsun: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/big-cursor/+bug/5533 - Updated debdiff. Apologies, and thanks. Learnt a lesson from that one. :)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #5533: cursor (Ubuntu) - big-cursorfont file installed in incorrect place. In: big-cursor (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5533
<crimsun> TheMuso: uploaded
<TheMuso> Thanks again.
<TheMuso> Will mark as fixed.
<\sh> BAH PLANET!
<shawarma> I figured out the what the "dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: format of liboctave.so not recognized" error minghua was experiencing is all about, if anyone is interested.
<crimsun> sure
<shawarma> As I said it'
<shawarma> fscking keyboard..
<shawarma> As I said it's a perl script spewing it out.
<shawarma> It checks the NEEDED headers of a library and tries to figure out which versions it needs.
<shawarma> ..the problem is not, in fact, in liboctave.so, but rather a file which NEEDs it.
<shawarma> The NEEDED field needs to have a specific format for shlibdeps can figure out which version it is.
<shawarma> Either it should be libfoo1.4.so or libfoo.so.1.4.
<shawarma> Er...
<shawarma> make that libfoo1-4.so or libfoo.so.1.4
<shawarma> However, a .so that it's analysing has a NEEDED liboctave.so header, which it can't verify due to the lack of versioning info.
<crimsun> yep, needs to be fixed
<shawarma> So the error does not refer to the format of the file "liboctave.so", but rather the NAME of the file.
<shawarma> If you see this error during the build of the package containing liboctave, it doesn't really matter, but otherwise it should probably be fixed.
<zakame> evening :D
<crimsun> 'evening zakame
<zakame> hi crimsun :)
<crimsun> hiya.
<crimsun> Almost fewer than 100 merges remaining :))
<shawarma> evening?
<shawarma> zakame: Where are you?
<zakame> yeah, cheers to all! :D
<zakame> shawarma: in .ph :D
<shawarma> zakame: Oh.
<zakame> shawarma: make that a very rainy evening :)
<zakame> er, is it possible for pdebuild to sign both {source,$arch}.changes? I currently have it so that it signs only $arch.changes, but not the source.changes...
<slomo> crimsun: did you make any progress with vlc?
<crimsun> slomo: err, is something broken beyond http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/dapper-changes/2005-November/001851.html ?
<crimsun> (referring to ia64 ftbfs?)
<slomo> crimsun: oh, didn't notice this one... what did you do with faad2?
<crimsun> slomo: I haven't diverged terribly much from Debian's yet
<slomo> crimsun: ok, but it's on your todo list?
<crimsun> slomo: yes
<crimsun> slomo: feel free to touch it if you wish, you won't be stepping on my toes
<slomo> ok, fine :) i ask because i'm currently looking at xine and it has the same problem... reminded me of vlc ;)
<slomo> no, just do it when you find some time for it :) you know more about vlc than i do
<doko> slomo: mplayer: upgrades fail
<doko> /usr/share/mplayer/Skin/default previously was a dir, you have to remove that manually in the preinst ...
<crimsun> http://tiber.tauware.de/~sistpoty/MoM/index.py?state=new -> "Total 99 packages"  :))
<zakame> woohoo!
<zakame> cheers to all!! :D
<slomo> doko: ok, will do now... (but it should be mplayer-skins)
<slomo> doko: thanks
<zakame> er, who do I ask to trigger a rebuild again?
<crimsun> zakame: infinity or lamont
<zakame> crimsun: thanks
<Kyral> morning MOTUs
<zakame> evening Kyral :D
<zakame> now lucene even fails on my pbuilder :/
<Mez> ogra: ping
<ogra> Mez, ?
<Mez> hey ogra :D
<Mez> am at a school now doing a demo edubuntu installation for them
<ogra> hi
<Mez> they're mainly interested in moodle
<Mez> anything i should show them?
<Mez> and they want to know more about your "student control panel"
<Mez> we'll take this private
<ogra> ah, sad moodle is only prepared, but didnt make it on the CD, so show them how to enable universe ;)
<ogra> student-control-panl is in dapper, just grab it from there, its plain python ...
<Gloubiboulga> I've used lpbugs.py 15 minutes ago (new merge) and I can't see anything about it in malone
<Gloubiboulga> is this normal ?
<thierry_> could a MOTU take a look at malone bug 5544
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #5544: sudoku (Ubuntu) - [PATCH]  gnome-sudoku absolute icon path In: gnome-sudoku (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5544
<Amaranth> thierry_: simple patch, now you just need a MOTU :)
<thierry_> Amaranth : exactly, are you one?
<Amaranth> nope
<thierry_> ok then, going to wait one
<Kyral> greets!
* lamont uploads lablgl
<Kyral> hey Seveas
<crimsun> lamont: err, I was waiting for elmo to sync that...
<lamont> has bad build-deps, it looked like
<Seveas> oi
<lamont> that is, it likes mesa crap
<lamont> or rather, xlib-built-mesa
<lamont> although I could be wrong...
<crimsun> lamont: builds fine in a Dapper pbuilder, though it sure is ugly from the b-d side
<crimsun> I debated merging but decided to try and keep it in line with Debian, thus the sync
<lamont> ah, sorry
<crimsun> no biggie, at least my merges will build now :))
<lamont> which would then mean that -10 could be a sycn
<crimsun> right
* lamont decides to wander off before causing more havoc
<lamont> glcpu_1.0.1-6 needs better build-deps, fwiw
<JohnnyMast> guys lablg can by synced
<dholbach> siretart, slomo: i started http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Media - if you have sudden clever ideas, please add them
<dholbach> siretart, slomo: i look forward to add that stuff to http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Long, once we're there
<slomo> dholbach: Testing/Long you mean?
<siretart> dholbach: good that you remind me, I wanted to prepare an announcement for the media meeting next thursday
<dholbach> slomo: yes
<dholbach> slomo: sorry :)
<slomo> dholbach: ok, i'll take a look after merging xine :)
<dholbach> hehe
<slomo> dholbach, siretart: and let's get a priotized (?) list with important formats for which we need test content... or what do you think?
<dholbach> slomo: absolutely
<siretart> slomo: I think I need to add a Conflicts/Replaces on all these junk mplayer packages for mplayer-skins :(
<slomo> siretart: yes, that's what i feared too :( and i need to find a way out of this conffiles madness
<siretart> slomo: what are the problems with the approach from the dpkg wiki?
<slomo> siretart: our current package without the conffiles and no removal for them... and we have this conffiles from different packages (i.e. the mplayer-* ones)
<theCore> is there a list of ubuntu packages up for adoption like the one for debian?
<siretart> slomo: well, since we Replace them, I have no problems taking the code snipped from dpkg wiki
<siretart> new mplayer-skins uploaded
<slomo> siretart: i'll try it later... but i don't think it will work as expected... we'll see :) but please don't upload a new mplayer until this is fixed
<slomo> siretart: please test in a chroot if the update works flawless now ;)
<siretart> slomo: I will coordinate with you before uploading in any case
<siretart> slomo: which conffiles are deprecated at all? it is only /etc/mplayer/codecs.conf, is it?
<azeem> theCore: Ubuntu has a different maintainership model than Debian.  In theory, everbody cares for every package, modulo the main<->universe destinction
<siretart> theCore: you want to work on a package? great! just do work :)
<slomo> siretart: deprecated is none of them but they're all simply not needed (only mplayer.conf to get sane output devices) except if the user wants to set some custom options ;) if we want to go the easy way we could just install them again
<slomo> siretart: they contained the default settings anyway
<siretart> slomo: so we should just install an updated one
<theCore> siretart, so, where I can get/put packages to maintain?
<slomo> siretart: for all of them? ok, i'll do that then in a few minutes
<siretart> slomo: this seems to be more sane to me. If the user has done local modifications, dpkg will bug him
<siretart> theCore: in principle, all packages are group maintained.
<slomo> siretart: ok
<siretart> theCore: so you don't need to ask if you want to work on a package. But please coordinate in this channel or mailing list to avoid duplicate work
<theCore> siretart, ok, i'm asking this because I'm currently working on the PackagingGuide, so I need to get some experiences before writing
<theCore> siretart, we want to make it easy for new maintainers
<siretart> theCore: great
<siretart> theCore: but what you are asking is rather about procedures than about packaging
<siretart> theCore: did you coordinate with Diziet about that?
<theCore> siretart, Diziet ?
<siretart> theCore: He is about to write documentation about procedures
<siretart> theCore: yes, please ask him
<siretart> theCore: he is in #ubuntu-devel
<theCore> siretart, thanks
<dholbach> theCore: LaserJock works on it too
<dholbach> theCore: and the guys in #ubuntu-doc
<siretart> and Unforgiven
<dholbach> seems like a meeting would be appropriate
<siretart> it is great that there are folks interested in writing docs, but this should definitly get coordinated
<theCore> dholbach, i work with LaserJock
<dholbach> cool
<siretart> theCore: did you also work with Unforgiven?
<theCore> siretart, no
<siretart> he has done some sort of Packaging guide
<siretart> but it was really just packaging, without a word about procedures
<theCore> dholbach, i'm his official packaging newbie ;)
<theCore> siretart, do you have a link ?
<siretart> to his packaging guide? hmm lets see
<JohnnyMast> lol :)
<siretart> theCore: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=787
<theCore> siretart, thank
<siretart> theCore: but please, talk to diziet
<dholbach> and it's in the docteam repo now too
<theCore> siretart, i will
<dholbach> it's in the new ubuntu-docs package too
<dholbach> YAY! BONUS! packaging guide everywhere
<tseng> woo
<JohnnyMast> mege guide now to
<JohnnyMast> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Merging
<JohnnyMast> also with laser
<dholbach> "i read in the packaging guide that ..." - "err hang on, which one are you referring to?"
<siretart> JohnnyMast: have you read this: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2005-December/000027.html
<JohnnyMast> let me C
<siretart> JohnnyMast: I've written down some notes about merging, perhaps you can incorporating them into https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Merging
<theCore> JohnnyMast, yea i know, LaserJock has talked about this wiki
<siretart> I'd do it myself, but I'm really busy right now, sorry
<JohnnyMast> yoes, im verry happy about your explaination
<JohnnyMast> *yes
<theCore> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPackagingGuide/Outline <<< our current plan for the packaging guide
<JohnnyMast> theCore ... checking
<JohnnyMast> aah yes i saw this
<slomo> siretart: we had our first mail on the media list :)
<dholbach> more! mailing! lists!
<dholbach> where do i sign up?
<ogra> *shudder*
<ogra> you and your mailing list mania
<dholbach> is that nothing for ubuntu-desktop?
<dholbach> ME?!
<dholbach> i didnt create it
<ogra> you as in you all
<ogra> :)
<siretart> slomo: yes, I think I have a fix for the mencoder manpage issue
<siretart> ogra: the motumedia@tauware.de list is mainly for the buglogs for motumedia team
<slomo> dholbach: this list is actually older than -desktop, -motu, etc ;)
<ogra> dholbach, remember i'll have to handle 1000s of more mails now *g*
<slomo> siretart: oh, give me the patch and i'll add it for the next upload :)
<ogra> siretart, i'm just joking ... ignore me
<dholbach> ogra: poor you, i'll get you a handkerchief :)
<siretart> ogra: we needed it as contact adress for motumedia, lp doesn't support the same contact address for 2 different groups
<siretart> dholbach: motumedia is located at http://tauware.de/mailman/listinfo/motumedia
<dholbach> i thought it was a discussion list
<theCore> siretart, can you explain me the packaging procedures?
<siretart> dholbach: it is the contact address for motumedia. we had our first person asking something on motumedia today :)
<siretart> theCore: in principle yes
<dholbach> :)
<siretart> :)
<theCore> siretart, because diziet doesn't seem to be there
<siretart> theCore: write him an email
<siretart> theCore: I think the decision at ubz was to take the debian maintainers guide, and strip off everything not applying to ubuntu, which would make the document only half thick as the original
<siretart> theCore: but I may be wrong
<siretart> slomo: what do you think about this: http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/5517
<theCore> siretart, it's not our plans, though
<siretart> theCore: I see.
<theCore> siretart, we want to distance ourselves of the DNMG
<slomo> siretart: definitly not ;) this will remove the mplayer manpage from the mplayer package... what issue do you mean btw?
<siretart> slomo: oh
<siretart> mom
<ogra> theCore,  you cant, lots of the info in there is needed, you can only write it better ...
<siretart> theCore: I'm not talking about the DNMG but about the Debian Developers Reference
<theCore> siretart, a ok
<siretart> slomo: I'm talking about malone bug #5508
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #5508: mencoder conflicts with mplayer, no default skin In: mplayer (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Media Team, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5508
<theCore> ogra, we want to make it easier
<ogra> theCore, but i know Diziet, it would be cool if you guys could work with him, else we'll just have a ubuntu NMG
<slomo> siretart: ok, i'll take a look at it :) (hmm, feels weird to work on xine and mplayer at the same time ;) )
<theCore> ogra, and that we don't want
<ogra> (but dont tell him ;) )
<ogra> yup
<JohnnyMast> could one of you review https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4811 ?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4811: phpmyadmin.prerm: line 12: db_get: command not found In: phpmyadmin (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Reviewers Team, Status: PendingUpload https://launchpad.net/bugs/4811
<siretart> ogra: the plan was rather to document procedures, than packaging issues. at UBZ we talked rather about an Ubuntu Developers Reference
<ogra> uh, db_get not found ?
<theCore> ogra, and that is what we don't want *
<ogra> theCore, yes ...
<JohnnyMast> yeah that was what i fixed
<JohnnyMast> (the bug it fix)
<JohnnyMast> it was packed with yada
<ogra> siretart, i just fear a UMNG written by diziet alone ...
<slomo> siretart: oh, i'll fix it... seems like mencoder finally got it's own manpage and i didn't notice it
<ogra> *UNMG
<azeem> JohnnyMast: the version should be -2ubuntu1 if -2 was the last Debian revision, I believe
<siretart> slomo: so the line in question should be removed?
<siretart> well, anyway. I'm off for dinner. cu later!
<theCore> siretart, i regret i didn't go to UBZ, it was so close to me
<tseng> ogra: that does sound scary
<slomo> siretart: it will be fixed when you're back :)
<JohnnyMast> ezeem i dont know, theother version seemed straight from debian
<JohnnyMast>  phpmyadmin (4:2.6.4-pl4-2) unstable; urgency=high
<ogra> tseng, it might be... i dont know diziets literary skills, but i have some presumption that i wouldnt want to give it my GF if she would wnt to learn packaging ...
<azeem> JohnnyMast: yes
<tseng> i think ankurs version is pretty good
<dholbach> ogra: i believe it'd be very accurate
<JohnnyMast> so i created -3ubuntu1 (but im not sure about this azeem you could be right)
<ogra> dholbach, *extremely* accurate,yes
<dholbach> tseng: when i looked at it, i found some unnecessary steps, like creating pbuilders in chroots
<tseng> yes that was strange
<JohnnyMast> but on the other side there was a bug fix as well azeem
<ogra> dholbach, the most important thing i'd see is that a totally unskilled person understands a bit of packaging afterwards and doesnt put it away in the middle ...
<dholbach> ogra: there should be two versions, i think
<dholbach> ogra: the quick guide
<dholbach> ogra: and the reference
<dholbach> "quick guide"
<ogra> hmmk
<dholbach> to flatten the learning curve
<dholbach> to get people started
<azeem> "dh_make && dpkg-buildpackage"
<dholbach> haha
<ogra> azeem++
<dholbach> dh_make -b maybe
<dholbach> :-p
<theCore> siretart, what is Diziet's email?
<theCore> dholbach, that our plans for the PackagingGuide, a quick guide and a reference guide
<JohnnyMast> theCore -> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/HowToBuildDebianPackagesFromScratch
<dholbach> theCore: 3? i talked about 2 :)
<theCore> dholbach, 3?
* theCore is recounting
<theCore> 1) a quick guide, 2) reference guide
<JohnnyMast> 3) total guide
<JohnnyMast> thats the link i pasted
<JohnnyMast> from edubuntu
<dholbach> hmm, do we need 3)?
<ogra> JohnnyMast, thats a wrong impression, the wikis are one ;)
<dholbach> ogra, mr edubuntu? :)
<dholbach> ogra: i mean "mr. shuttleworth", could you elaborate? ;)
<ogra> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowToBuildDebianPackagesFromScratch
<ogra> ;)
<JohnnyMast> erm
* JohnnyMast slaps /me 
<ogra> dholbach, \sh_away wrote that page iirc
<dholbach> yeah
<ogra> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/HowToBuildDebianPackagesFromScratch
<ogra> btw ;)
* ogra hates this ...
<ajmitch> morning
<dholbach> it's a bit braindead, yes
<dholbach> hey ajmitch
<LaserJock> ok, I'm back from class, give me a sec to read the log
<LaserJock> ok, I talked to Diziet about the Developer's Reference
<theCore> LaserJock, what he said ?
<LaserJock> theCore: he said that the can be orthogonal docs
<LaserJock> I view it as the Developer's reference is more policy and the Packaging Guide it mor tutorial
<theCore> LaserJock, ok, i see
<ogra> LaserJock++
<LaserJock> I don't know how far Diziet has gotten with the Ubuntu Developer Reference but it probably won't be too far from the Debian one
<LaserJock> So we should be able to look at it and try to minimize overlap
<theCore> LaserJock, i think, too
<LaserJock> As for the IntroDeveloperDoc done by Unfrgiven. I have sort of decided to abandon that. I'm not sure yet though.
<ajmitch> JohnnyMast: please, your fix to #4811 was quite wrong
<ajmitch> JohnnyMast: you need to understand the evils of yada for that one
<ajmitch> reverting it back to 0.35 is not good
<JohnnyMast> ajmitch that i knew, but the db_get was in the wrong place
<ajmitch> why do you think that?
<JohnnyMast> because when you comment the line it works fine
<JohnnyMast> and clean
<ajmitch> that doesn't mean it's in the wrong place
<ajmitch> it just means you disabled something to mask the symptoms
<JohnnyMast> yes thats right
<selinium> Hi all, ogra.. The URL you posted about building packages, I have been looking to get into doing stuff for the MOTU for sometime and have found it difficult. I have found even though people want to help wannabe's it can be difficult to get going. It looks like this wiki page will help me on my first packaging. The wiki says about make src && make dynamic, but does not explian why?  Can you ellaborate?  :)
<ogra> not really, i find this page quite awful ...
<ogra> i just pasted the link to point out that ubuntu/edubuntu and kubuntu wikis are identical
<JohnnyMast> ow btw ogra 3) ubuntuforums.org :)
<JohnnyMast> thats 3
<ajmitch> JohnnyMast: you relaiase
<ajmitch> sorry
<ogra> their wiki isnt realted to ubuntu
<ajmitch> wow that was an impressive typo
<JohnnyMast> lol
<ajmitch> JohnnyMast: you realise that a rebuild of phpmyadmin with no source changes will fix it?
<slomo> siretart: uh, i set almost all mplayer bugs to fixed, needinfo or rejected ;) only one is missing now
<ogra> ajmitch, mine or yours ?
<ajmitch> and reverting to the older yada is exactly what reintroduces the bug?
<siretart> slomo: YOU ROCK!
<ajmitch> I had to do that in breezy because yada could not be updated in main
<siretart> slomo: the missing one is the manpage thing, is it?
<ajmitch> ogra: mine
<ogra> :)
<ajmitch> ogra: I even hit enter when going for backspace
<JohnnyMast> ajmitch no i dont
<slomo> siretart: no, it's fixed... the missing one is a mplayer32 package for amd64... people want to use the w32codecs there ;)
<shawarma> Any of you guys running dapper in anything but a chroot?
<siretart> slomo: ah I see
<ajmitch> shawarma: sure
<slomo> siretart: can you verify that the w32codecs don't work on amd64 when adding --enable-win32, etc to configure (look at the options for x86 in rules)
<shawarma> ajmitch: And it's kind of stable right now?
<slomo> shawarma: sure... works fine here ;)
<selinium> ogra... OK! So what I would like, as a wannabe, is a walk through. To guide me through my first package. From installing a chroot to the end package. Is there such a page? If not can anyone here put in the time once to save countless questions from wannabes?
<siretart> slomo: I have an amd64 and would reject that anyway
<siretart> slomo: w32codecs are way overrated
<shawarma> slomo: Great. My girlfriend is tired of the ipw2200 driver in breezy, so I'm going to upgrade her laptop's kernel to the one from dapper..
<slomo> siretart: sure... but if it works out of the box by just enabling these options for configure we can do it ;) please please test :)
<ogra> selinium, see the PbuilderHowto for the tools stuff, thats mainly what you need
<siretart> slomo: sure
<ogra> apart from dpkg-dev
<ogra> if you want to make packages from scratch, have a look at dh_make
<ajmitch> JohnnyMast: fyi, the phpmyadmin bug doesn't even appear to exist in dapper
<siretart> slomo: Do you experience the gam_server bug in gnome-panel?
<ogra> but note that most of motu work is *not* making packages from scratch
<ogra> rather touching others packages and fix errors
<JohnnyMast> ajmitch i dont know, i dont run dapper
<ogra> JohnnyMast, we only develop for dapper ...
<ogra> so it would be clever to run it :)
<JohnnyMast> lol yep
<ajmitch> blindly fixing dapper bugs is hard :)
<ajmitch> since we have to verify the bugs are there
<selinium> ogra: It is not just about the tools though, without a walkthrough on what to do with a package all I have is installed pbuilder.... If I had the ability to follow a walkthrough on re-packing for Ubuntu I would have the confidence to look at other packages.... and to get more involved.
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: you can often do that by inspection
<selinium> ogra: Sorry for picking on you! It just that you posted the URL! :)
<ajmitch> Mithrandir: often, but not without looking at the source
<ogra> selinium, its all about the tools and the right choice of dependencys for the package ...
<ogra> everything else you'll learn by doing ...
<JohnnyMast> ajmitch, i might want a download url in that case
<ajmitch> JohnnyMast: for what?
<JohnnyMast> dapper test run
<ajmitch> you seemed to grab the dapper source, but it needed to be built on dapper
<JohnnyMast> the first test release
<ajmitch> it should be on the site somewhere
* ajmitch just dist-upgraded from breezy
<slomo> siretart: which one?
<JohnnyMast> working on it ...
<siretart> slomo: I mean malone #5176
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #5176: Application menu disappears In: gamin (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Ubuntu GNOME Team, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5176
<siretart> this Ubugtu is handy :)
<slomo> siretart: no, works fine here
<siretart> interesting
<siretart> slomo: are you on ppc or x86?
<slomo> siretart: it works on both ;)
* ogra wanders off for 2h
<siretart> have fun ogra!
<ogra> will do :)
<selinium> ogra, I will give you a quick run through from my experiences in the MOTU, these aren't criticisms, just what happened to me. I spoke to Seveas about getting more involved with Ubuntu, he pointed me in the direction of the MOTU wiki pages. After following the PbuilderHowTo and signing the CoC I can here. I asked about getting involved and was greated in true Ubuntu style by congrats and the like. But then I have f
<selinium> ound it difficult to go any further. To find a mentor, or a package to work with... Have I missed some vital piece in the chain?
<JohnnyMast> brb
<selinium> I ask this question to all, see you soon ogra :)
<LaserJock> selinium: you might try UniverseCandidates to find packages to do. Or work on merges ( MOTUToMerge ) or just check out MOTUTodo
<LaserJock> selinium: those are all at wiki.ubuntu.com BTW
<JohnnyMast> ajmitch, found it http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/releases/dapper/flight-1/
<ajmitch> JohnnyMast: that's great.. ;)
<ajmitch> even that will be outdated by now
<JohnnyMast> yes but i can update the packages from there
<selinium> LaserJock, I have looked at Universe candidates, but when I have chosen one, then what? :)
<LaserJock> selinium: go to the URL, download the source, and make a package out of it
<ajmitch> assuming that you want to package something from scratch :)
<JohnnyMast> well thats the fun isnt it ?
<JohnnyMast> packaging ...
<selinium> LaserJock, That is the point, I have never made a package, am I supposed to be able to just by downloading Pbuilder? This is getting a little obstructive.... :(   I am really pro-ubuntu and would like to give back, but I keep finding myself stumbling at the first hurdle. I want to help but I need help to get started... :) Like a walkthrough, 'My First Ubuntu Package' type of thing, without that, I am lost..
<Amaranth> selinium: You need the Debian New Maintainer's Guide
<LaserJock> selinium: join #ubuntu-motu-school
<selinium> LaserJock, I am waiting until 17:00 on the 10th for that to start!
<selinium> ::)
<JohnnyMast> it will be amasing
<LaserJock> selinium: well, maybe I can help before ajmitch totally rocks the MOTU Wannabe world ;-)
<JohnnyMast> hahahaha
<selinium> I am really looking forward to it, but I will not be able to 'attend' on Saturday :( I will just have to read the logs!
<ajmitch> LaserJock: excuse me?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: please, don't advertise my talk as a packaging howto
<ajmitch> otherwise people will get confused
<ajmitch> bbiab
<LaserJock> ajmitch: sorry, but it will be about packaging right? just a specific topic
<JohnnyMast> its a dh_make lecture right ?
<JohnnyMast> that will fit selinium`s plans
<LaserJock> JohnnyMast: i didn't think he was even going to use dh_make
<Amaranth> it's a dpkg-dev talk :P
<ajmitch> JohnnyMast: no, definitely not using dh_make
<ajmitch> too many people use that without understanding what is going on
<JohnnyMast> so it will be a dtailed explaination about dirs and files and procedurs
* Amaranth will stick to cdbs
<Amaranth> if cdbs breaks, i'll file a bug on it
<Amaranth> otherwise i don't need to care what is happening underneath
<ajmitch> Amaranth: yes you do :)
<selinium> ajmitch, have you got a page in motu explaining what lesson is to be held, previous lessons with a link to the log....
<selinium> Or anywhere?
<ajmitch> there might be one, I can't recall where
* ajmitch has to run to work
<slomo> siretart: the motumedia list is down :/ at least all my bug changes in malone didn't get to there
<siretart> slomo: err, huh?
<siretart> slomo: that would mean that I wouldnt get any mails. I don't think the list is down
<slomo> siretart: then it's maybe only LP beeing slow?
<siretart> slomo: I think so
<siretart> mails on tauware.de are fairly fast, because the system is generally low loaded
<slomo> ok... let's wait :)
<slomo> wtf... http://www.thedailywtf.com/forums/52887/ShowPost.aspx
<ajmitch> ok, I'm back
<raphink> welcome back then
<raphink> :)
<crimsun> ooh, very cool. Intel donated 10 laptops for Debian developers in developing countries.
<ajmitch> crimsun: does NZ count as developing? :)
<crimsun> ajmitch: I doubt it ;)
<raphink> crimsun: oh that's nice :)
<raphink> I doubt France counts as developing either :(
<raphink> hehe
<Riddell> ooh, new libtunepimp has plugins.  an end to the lack of mp3 support
<raphink> :)
* ajmitch can't wait for everything on his system to be installable again
<Riddell> does mean a whole libtunepimp transition though, but I should be able to manage that
<raphink> Riddell: would you have some time to review some of my package ?
<Riddell> raphink: hmm, maybe, what's needing done again?
<raphink> Riddell: kyamo (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1075 ) has never been reviewed
<raphink> Riddell: then I've made a slight change in kubuntu-grub-splashimages ( http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1071 )
<raphink> Riddell: and konq-encrypt-menu ( http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1027 ) should take about 1 minute to review :)
<raphink> hehe
<ajmitch> fun, people reporting known dapper problems on the devel list
<raphink> ajmitch : can I work on merges without being a MOTU?
<crimsun> absolutely
<ajmitch> of course
<raphink> how so?
<ajmitch> most of the people working on them aren't motus
<raphink> ok
<ajmitch> merge, test, put upa  debdiff for review
<raphink> :)
<raphink> what is there to do on them?
<raphink> I've tried to understand the way to work on merges but I'm not sure of it
<ajmitch> merging ;)
<raphink> hehe
<ajmitch> making sure that we have the debian changes & relevant ubuntu changes
<raphink> so I get the current ubuntu source, current debian source
<ajmitch> knowing what is relevant is key :)
<raphink> compare them
<ajmitch> you get the MoM output
<ajmitch> which has already done most of the work
<raphink> MoM = ?
<raphink> Master of Main ? ;)
<ajmitch> mergeomatic
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> ok
<ajmitch> see the merge page for details
<raphink> where do I find taht?
<ajmitch> http://revu.tauware.de/~sistpoty/MoM/index.py?state=new
<raphink> ok
<raphink> I'll look at it
<raphink> thanks
<ajmitch> look at a package, the package name should link to MoM
<raphink> ok :)
<ajmitch> ones with a big red YES in the last column require c++ library renaming
<Riddell> bah, amarok doesn't compile against new libtunepimp
<raphink> ajmitch : so that's just a modif in debian/control?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> and often rules
<crimsun> against the transitioned one? that's odd.
<ajmitch> and often renaming install files
<crimsun> oh, new != necessarily transitioned
<raphink> ok
<TheMuso> Hey all.
<raphink> I'll have a look at this
* ajmitch should grab some of those php libs
<raphink> I just saw that I think I didn't send a patch from a package I made :(
<raphink> bad me
<herve> hello
<ajmitch> hi herve
<herve> someone has the deadline in mind about a new package making it into the universe?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> feature freeze if it doesn't require lib upgrades
<ajmitch> UVF otherwise
<ajmitch> that't the general rule
<ajmitch> wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseProcess for the details
<herve> that sounds like good news
<herve> ha, thanks for the link
<ajmitch> (as discussed before & at UBZ) ;)
<herve> yes, but I'm quite away from the buzz
<herve> not to mention from Canada ;-)
<ajmitch> sure :)
* ajmitch is a long long way from canada
<LaserJock> hmm, that was fun
<ajmitch> goody, another package where our changes can be dropped
<ajmitch> hi \sh
<ajmitch> hm yes
<ajmitch> I see that it was crimsun's fault anyway
<crimsun> cough?
<ajmitch> crimsun: not filing merge bugs
<\sh> I just resigned
<ajmitch> so I took a look at the package
<crimsun> ajmitch: for which?
<ajmitch> pysol
<\sh> fuck#
<\sh> no job#
<\sh> no perspektive
<crimsun> ajmitch: ah, yeah, I left a comment
<\sh> I FUCKING JUST RESINGED
<ajmitch> \sh: oh? I knew it was coming real soon now
<ajmitch> crimsun: I just saw that
<ajmitch> crimsun: how many others will be like that?
<crimsun> ajmitch: I believe siretart has retitled the rest
<LaserJock> \sh: have you gotten any leads on other jobs?
<ajmitch> \sh: more time for dapper for now?
<ajmitch> crimsun: ok..
* ajmitch spots pyserial
<\sh> LaserJock: no...and it doesn't interest me
<\sh> ajmitch: sure
<ajmitch> crimsun: looks like I shouldn't have bothered filing most of these py* merge bugs then
<Riddell> what's the best bugzilla query to find my merges?
<ajmitch> bugs assigned to you, with merge in the title?
* ajmitch doesn't know how main bugs have been filed this time 
<crimsun> ajmitch: all my current ones are assigned to me, so your py* bugs are valid with the exception of the ones just mentioned
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> good to know before I start fixing & uploading :)
<crimsun> certainly :)
<\sh> if you want to know something..planet
<ajmitch> ok
<LaserJock> thierry_: hi
<thierry_> LaserJock : hi
<LaserJock> thierry_: do you know of any science packages that do have .desktop files?
<thierry_> siretart : could you explain me more in details what's the work for the unmet deps? I mean how can I know if the package just need a rebuild or not...
<thierry_> LaserJock : gperiodic, but it's in the education menu...
<thierry_> LaserJock : that's the only one I have installed
<LaserJock> thierry_: I was going to do a bug report at gnome to get a Science menu but the problem is that right now so few the the science packages have .desktop file that there would be only a couple of items in the menu :(
<thierry_> LaserJock : then let's create hundreds of .desktop files! :)
<thierry_> LaserJock : go see there... I did a comment last day we were talking
<thierry_> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=140900
<Ubugtu> gnome-icon-theme bug #140900: Science and Engineering toplevel menus Product: gnome-icon-theme, Component: general, Severity: minor, Assigned to: jimmac@ximian.com, Status: NEW http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=140900
<herve> \sh, the german law is ok with that kind of taunting?
<thierry_> LaserJock : seriously I think we should do something like a .desktop day... the list of package without .desktop file is so longggg!
<LaserJock> thierry_: yes, but I talked to seb128 on -devel and he said to report a new bug against gnome-menus and dep on that one
<thierry_> k
<LaserJock> thierry_: I agree
<thierry_> LaserJock : my opinion is Go ahead and create that bug, then I'll understand exactly what we need to do and I can promise I would be able to create 2-3 patch a day everyday for the .desktop (I solved all https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseDesktopFileAbsolutePath myself, with the explanations of seb128)
<thierry_> maybe that would also help me to get the MOTU status... dream on....
<LaserJock> ok, thierry_ I am going to send an email to the ubuntu-science list about it and do the bug report
<thierry_> cool, now if you had the time to show how to nicely create .desktop file (well mainly all the stuff around like dirs, rules and control) I could start right now making .desktop file for all your sciences apps
<LaserJock> thierry_: maybe, but one thing at a time. I gotta get some real life work done too ;-)
<thierry_> LaserJock : k sorry, didn't want to stop you doing important stuff... maybe another time then...
<thierry_> LaserJock : so I still create categories in .desktop file for the science menu?
<LaserJock> thierry_: yes, I believe so, but you might check to see where they endup in the menu. I prefer Education over Other
<thierry_> LaserJock : k but if we endup with the science menu, we would have to change everything?
<LaserJock> thierry_: I don't think so
<thierry_> k
<LaserJock> thierry_: just a sec, let me check something out
<thierry_> k
<siretart> thierry_: we have not settled on the procedure dealing with unmet deps
<\sh> herve: no
<thierry_> siretart : ho ok... so I can't help?
<ajmitch> hi siretart
* ajmitch is just trying to get madison-lie working locally :)
<ajmitch> s/lie/lite/
<ajmitch> hi ogra*
<siretart> ajmitch: madison-lie is correct for tiber
<siretart> ajmitch: because I b0rked the config :(
<ajmitch> oh?
<raphink> hi ogra[_] 
<siretart> ajmitch: if you have a working config for it, just dump the config on tiber. it is broken
* ajmitch is trying to get update-madison-lite-mirror, copied from tiber, to actually work on his box
<ajmitch> no, I just copied the config from tiber
<ajmitch> what is broken for you?
<LaserJock> thierry_: ok, I just made a Science menu on my machine and made a .desktop entry
<siretart> thierry_: currently we defer unmet deps after uvf
<siretart> thierry_: because we still have some transitions ongoing, so many unmets deps will be fixed as sideeffect
<siretart> thierry_: after UVF, we can focus on that
* raphink wonders what's uvf
<ajmitch> upstream version freeze
<raphink> ok :)
<LaserJock> thierry_: but if I use Categories=Application;Science;Education it is both the Science and Education menus
<ajmitch> where we don't take in new upstream versions (but was can still make changes)
<raphink> talking of ?
<raphink> ok
<raphink> so it's the version freeze for stable
<raphink> right?
<ajmitch> for dapper
<raphink> yep
<ajmitch> breezy is considered stable :)
<raphink> :)
<raphink> yes
<ajmitch> we don't have the split like debian does
<raphink> that's what I meant
<raphink> when is that to happen?
<raphink> how long before the release?
<ajmitch> wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseSchedule
<raphink> thanks
* raphink has much to read 
<raphink> interesting :)
<thierry_> LaserJock : ok but anyway, when if we get that science menu, we'll have two appearance of each science program in the menu
<raphink> ajmitch : so in the end of the process there's mostly merges and bug fixing, right?
<thierry_> siretart : and what's UVF?
<ajmitch> raphink: oh yes
<ajmitch> not merges
<raphink> ok
<ajmitch> but lots & lots of bugfixing
<Hieronym1s> thierry_: upstream version freeze, I think
<ajmitch> merges is the first part, since it's mostly new upstream versions
<ajmitch> thierry_: see my explanation above
<LaserJock> thierry_: right, so I don't know if it better to just put Science and wait until the menu has bee created or what
<raphink> what is the role of MOTUs in bug fixing?
<raphink> fixing all universe bugs?
<siretart> thierry_: UVF = upstream version freeze
<siretart> mid january, I think\
<ajmitch> raphink: sure ;)
* raphink tries to imagine all the bugs in the universe to be fixed
<ajmitch> a lot of it is simply making things installable
<ajmitch> there can be a lot of bugs
<ajmitch> and hopefully  most can be fixed in debian
<raphink> ok
<raphink> :)
<thierry_> LaserJock : well... we have about one month until upstream version freeze to make our change so we'll see if the menu appears in gnome or not...
<LaserJock> thierry_: I suppose if we just have Science then it can't be any worse than it is now ;-)
<thierry_> LaserJock : right, so we put only science?
<LaserJock> thierry_: if they have educational value then I think it is good to put them in Education, otherwise do Science.
<LaserJock> thierry_: if you need help telling the difference email the ubuntu-science list an we can debate it :-)
<thierry_> LaserJock : no problem :) ... but I'll first try to create a .desktop file and all the stuff around it to work correctly
<LaserJock> thierry_: right, it's great to have somebody working on that. Keep up the good work
<thierry_> LaserJock : thanks... but I would really need someone coaching me about .desktop file and all the stuff around, would you think asking my questions on particular point on the MOTU list would be a poblem? I mean for the MOTU, because it's really newbie questions...
<LaserJock> thierry_: I would just ask here or just get a hold of me. I got to run some errands right now but I will be back later
<thierry_> LaserJock : I already opened malone bug 5399 if you want to take a fast look...
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #5399: [PATCH]  adding a .desktop file to geg In: geg (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Reviewers Team, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5399
<ajmitch> yay, updating madison-lite is working
<thierry_> k
<thierry_> LaserJock : thanks, I'll ask here then
<ajmitch> siretart: I'll remove my debugging hacks & put the fixed script back on tiber
<siretart> ajmitch: thanks a lot
<ajmitch> siretart: it was just variable clobbering
<thierry_> to get dapper source package do I just "apt-get source $package" ?
<ajmitch> thierry_: assuming you're running dapper or have the sources for dapper configured in /etc/apt/sources.list
<thierry_> ajmitch : ok but if I'm running brezzy and that I only want to get the source of dapper, but not configuring my whole apt-get for dapper?
<ajmitch> then just configure your deb-src lines
<ajmitch> or do it in a chroot
<\sh> ok...guys....cu tomorrow...from home :)
<ajmitch> bye \sh
<\sh> fuck I did it
<ajmitch> siretart: ok, test out madison-lite now
<ajmitch> hm, 1 error still remaining
* ajmitch updates
<siretart> ajmitch: interesting error
<siretart> but thanks for fixing!
<ajmitch> it gets the architecture list from the directory structure
<ajmitch> the update script was trying to fetch restricted, universe, etc, from debian
<ajmitch> fixed that
<siretart> ajmitch: thanks
<ajmitch> no problem :)
<siretart> ajmitch: this means /usr/local/bin/update-madison-lite-mirror is safe to run?
<ajmitch> that's what I was fixing
<ajmitch> & I've run it again
<siretart> great
<dholbach> good night everybody
<ajmitch> night dholbach
<LaserJock> gnight dholbach
<shawarma> dholbach: G'night.
<dholbach> night guys
<bojan_> good night @ all
<ajmitch> hm, looks like kdevelop3 still needs rebuilt
<JohnnyMast> firefox is broken on my dapper
<JohnnyMast> :(
<ajmitch> welcome to dapper
<JohnnyMast> hehe yeah well now i see why your so bussy bug fixing hehe
<Evaso2> hi i doesn't know if could be helpfull for motu team but there is a list of package not in sync with his upstream version ordered by popcon values. There are also available upstream NEWS/Changelogs when you click on the upstream version number. If anybody would test it could find here: http://dehs.alioth.debian.org/no_updated.html
<JohnnyMast> popcorn ?
<JohnnyMast> ow popcon
<ajmitch> we'd prefer that debian maintainers update the packages themselves :)
<ajmitch> mainly because it avoids huge duplication
<Evaso2> ajmitch: is debian not you upstream? :)
<ajmitch> Evaso2: yes, which is why I said that
<ajmitch> we can update the packages if we had time
<ajmitch> or if there was need
<Evaso2> well this are deiban packages in unstable/experimantl not in sync with upstream version and there is also upstream NEWS/Changelog available
<ajmitch> I know :)
* ajmitch also works on debian :)
<Evaso2> so anybody could know what feautures are not in debian and what upstream bugs are not fixed and so also in motu
<Evaso2> motu/universe
* ajmitch spots at least 2 packages on there that must have wrong watch files
<Evaso2> ajmitch: there are many packages that doesn't have good watch file :) fills wishlist bugs to maintainers :)
<lifeless> morning all
<ajmitch> 'upstream bugs' being just bugs tagged upstream in debian's BTS
<ajmitch> hi lifeless
<ajmitch> how's it going?
<azeem> Evaso2: how do you know which upstream bugs are fixed in new uploads?
<azeem> are you just looking at fixed-upstream tags?
<lifeless> not bad, except I seem to have hayfever/nasal cold. Can't stop sneezing.
<Evaso2> ajmitch azzem: i see it in changelog
<azeem> Evaso2: you check every upstream changelog?
<Evaso2> azeem: when you click on upstream version number probably you find bugs fixed in the last upstream version
<azeem> Evaso2: "probably"
<Evaso2> azeem: for example if i'm interestend in lzo package i click on 2.02 version and i see all upstream bug fixed and new features added from 1.08 and 2.02
<azeem> oh well
<azeem> Evaso2: I thought you were talking about Debian bugs fixed upstream, not general upstream bugs
<Evaso2> azeem: i mean general upstream bugs (i doesn't know if also are reported to debian maintainer and forwarded to upstream) and new features added that a debian/ubuntu user is missing
* ajmitch will bbl, anyway
#ubuntu-motu 2005-12-14
<sistpoty> hi folks
<JohnnyMast> hi there sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi JohnnyMast
<TheMuso> Hey sistpoty, JohnnyMast.
<sistpoty> hi TheMuso
<JohnnyMast> :) hi man welcome back amongs the wake
<TheMuso> I have been up for ages. Just been doing other things.
<TheMuso> It is 10:24 AM here.
<JohnnyMast> 00:24 here :/
<TheMuso> Aha.
* sistpoty is utc+1 like JohnnyMast
<JohnnyMast> is this broken firefox thing known on dapper or is it just me ?
<JohnnyMast> belgje waar ben je dan mijn joingen
<sistpoty> no idea... I'm still on breezy
<JohnnyMast> i just switched
<JohnnyMast> so where are you from sistpoty ?
<TheMuso> sistpoty: Same. I only work in dapper chroots/pbuilder sessions.
<sistpoty> I'm from Nuremberg, Germany (or a smaller town near Nuremberg)
<JohnnyMast> so you where to the ubuntu meeting ?
<sistpoty> what meeting? ubz? no, I wasn't there... didn't have the time :/
<slomo> siretart: please try to fix mplayer for amd64... fabbione told me to enable win32 stuff there and it fails ;)
<sistpoty> hi slomo
<slomo> hi sistpoty :)
<slomo> and can someone give me pbuilder access to an ia64 box? ;)
<sistpoty> sorry, but I could need it as well ;)
<sistpoty> slomo: what prob do you have?
<slomo> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/x/xine-lib/1.1.1-0ubuntu1/
<slomo> it can't inline something... i'll try to remove the inline keyword on that function ;)
<sistpoty> hm... I can't even see where the error comes from: "make[6] : *** [h263.lo]  Error 1" but only warnings before
<slomo> sistpoty: h263.c:69: sorry, unimplemented: inlining failed in call to 'mpeg4_decode_dc': function body not available
<sistpoty> ah
<sistpoty> I guess it's complete nonsense, but I've had trouble with gcc/ia64 recently as well: gcc bug #17224
<Ubugtu> Error: Error getting Malone bug #17224: Bug does not exist
<sistpoty> http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=17224
<Ubugtu> gcc bug #17224: [3.4/4.0 Regression] : relocation truncated to fit: GPREL22 Product: gcc, Component: target, Severity: minor, Assigned to: rth@gcc.gnu.org, Status: RESOLVED, Resolution: FIXED http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=17224
<slomo> Ubugtu is nice :)
<JohnnyMast> yeah i do agree
<sistpoty> hehe, but he can't read my mind yet ;)
<TheMuso> Thats so cool.
<slomo> anyway... need to sleep :) i'll see if it builds now tomorrow ;) gn8 everybody
<sistpoty> gn8 slomo
<JohnnyMast> gn slomo
<herve> good night
<LaserJock> hi \sh
<\sh> re
<TheMuso> How similar is setting up a Debian unstable chroot to the process for breezy/dapper etc?
* TheMuso can't find any documents explaining how one might go about it for Debian.
<LaserJock> TheMuso: the same except it's Debian
<LaserJock> I think it is good to make a sarge chroot and upgrade it to unstable
<TheMuso> Minus the sudo stuff I guess, thanks.
<\sh> fck
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Why?
<\sh> 115 in less then an hour
<TheMuso> Any particular reason?
<LaserJock> sometimes the debootsrap doesn't behave well for unstable, same for dapper I think
<TheMuso> hmmm ok.
<LaserJock> \sh: I had a good motu-school session with selenium today
<\sh> LaserJock: nice...and I had a just better resignment today :)
<LaserJock> TheMuso: anyway that is how I did it
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Ok thanks.
<Seveas> \sh, yeah I saw that on planet
<LaserJock> me too
<Seveas> you were quite angry, I guess
<\sh> angry? no...I WAS PISSED, actually....
<sistpoty> poor \sh
<SEJeff> \sh: What sucked so bad?
* SEJeff ducks
<\sh> sistpoty: na...not poor :)
<sistpoty> :)
<\sh> SEJeff: well..if you fire people just because you want to sell a company...you should know the people you are firing.
<\sh> I just asked those guys, if they know at least one of those people they want to fire.....
<\sh> they don't know
<\sh> I learned in my early days, how to fire people...and it's not something I liked, at least when I know the name and the face...
<SEJeff> \sh: I see why you are so pissed. Good choice. I sent your cv to a tech recruiter I know that works with IBM a lot
<magnon> let them know early, and work with them to find a new position. yay
<magnon> hey stephan by the way
* sistpoty will break the merge list now
<\sh> so I gave this shit my hand, gave him my name...and excused myself, that I'm resinging..all buddies from this company were standing around and were a bit shocked...
<\sh> because this guy is my big big boss...
<\sh> hey magnon you have the job?
<SEJeff> \sh: But what will you do now?
<\sh> SEJeff: searching a new job?
<magnon> \sh: which one?
<\sh> magnon: well..dunno...anyone?
<SEJeff> \sh: good luck
<magnon> I'm probably working in the Parliament after new year's
<magnon> which is cool but no ubuntu
<\sh> SEJeff: thx I'm 35 :) I need all the luck of the world :)
<sistpoty> but you have experience... _much_ experience \sh ;)
<\sh> sistpoty: today..this doesn't mean anything
* magnon has a nice CV which contains ONE point of work experience, but it's still nice :)
<sistpoty> args... I'll still have maybe a year of university, before I'll need to look for a job. and I'm 26 already :/
<magnon> sistpoty: Do it my way, private studies ;)
<sistpoty> magnon: private studies?
<magnon> well
<magnon> you pay for an exam, get a list of books, read them and do the stuff
<magnon> since I live in a good country, I can pop into any uni session when I have time
<JohnnyMast> what country is that ?
<magnon> JohnnyMast: The country where unemployment sank, economy was stable and awesome, people were getting more welfare, and education and research was rising, but people still voted for the opposition
<magnon> Norway
<magnon> goddamn socialists :)
<JohnnyMast> isnt that where aba came from ?
<sistpoty> hm... strange thing is, I wouldn't want to miss a year I spent studying... also I didn't always focus on study I learned really much (and apart from that all that's left for me is diploma thesis and nebenfach exam [don't know the english word for it] )
<\sh> JohnnyMast: abba came from sweden
<JohnnyMast> bingo ur right :)
<magnon> JohnnyMast: A-ha came from Norway
<JohnnyMast> i know norwegian ppl
<magnon> so did the cheese slicer
<\sh> "Take on me..take me on" :)
<\sh> 1984
<JohnnyMast> :p
<JohnnyMast> oooooooooooh
<JohnnyMast> nice song !!
<\sh> nice video
<sistpoty> it is :)
<JohnnyMast> yep with the cartoon right ?
<\sh> I kissed my first girl at this time while watching with here this video
<\sh> s/here/her/
<JohnnyMast> awww how romantic
<sistpoty> hehe
<magnon> sistpoty: I'd say working at the secretary of parliament while doing some political science studies on the side is a good combo :)
<\sh> JohnnyMast: I was 13
<sistpoty> magnon: sure it is ;)
<JohnnyMast> yes but was that in 84 ?
<\sh> JohnnyMast: jepp
<JohnnyMast> ow man
<magnon> two years before I was even born
<JohnnyMast> im a youngster compared to you
<JohnnyMast> your 11 years older then me
<JohnnyMast> i was released 2 years before :)
<magnon> on a side note, why do you germans have to be at parties with immoral music like A-ha to kiss people
<sistpoty> lol
* magnon was lying on the grass at the seashore in the summer, near the fjord of Oslo
<\sh> magnon: i never said I was on a party
<\sh> magnon: I was laying on her bed
<magnon> I assumed, you drunkard :)
<JohnnyMast> we have our selfs the best band in the world
<JohnnyMast> golden  earing
<magnon> still doesn't beat moonlight near the oslo fjord :P
<\sh> magnon: what do i want to oslo fjord when I can touch her breast and have her tongue in my mouth?
<sistpoty> oh wonderful... I didn't break the merge-list while updating it's status :)
<magnon> \sh: why not have it all?
<magnon> but shh, there might be minors
<sistpoty> 95 -> 209 merges to be done :(
<JohnnyMast> level is droping .....
<raphink> I should get to it soon
<\sh> magnon: I was 13 :)
<sistpoty> tststs
<JohnnyMast> 34 now
<magnon> this is, by the way, the day after the norwegian Supreme Court decided that uncensored porn to a certain degree is legal
<Nafallo> sistpoty: MOM opened again or something?
<sistpoty> Nafallo: 1) seems like it did (saw a log from today) and 2) merge-list didn't show all mom-logs yet
<Nafallo> oh. nice.
<sistpoty> s/today/yesterday/
* sistpoty goes for a 2nd try to break the merge-list
* JohnnyMast wonders
<JohnnyMast> what if motu grows and grows
<JohnnyMast> would that not be bad ? if it gets to big ?
<\sh> JohnnyMast: hmmm....
<JohnnyMast> suppose we have 1024 motu`s realy good ppl
<LaserJock> JohnnyMast: seems like that's pretty far in the futur
<sistpoty> JohnnyMast: what do you mean with motu?
<JohnnyMast> but still
<magnon> JohnnyMast: Just requires administration
<sistpoty> ah
<magnon> More of it, at least
<JohnnyMast> then your done within a few days with the merge list
<LaserJock> does anybody know how many DDs there are?
<JohnnyMast> ppl are waiting for there first bug fix to get there hands on in a week
<Nafallo> LaserJock: 1000+ last I heard :-)
<LaserJock> Nafallo: thanks, that's quite a bit
<sistpoty> JohnnyMast: more motu's would never be bad... currently motu's try to group in teams, but still everybody seems to care for everything
<Nafallo> LaserJock: well, they do have 18000+ packages to maintain ;-)
<Nafallo> (or something like that)
<LaserJock> Nafallo: we've got a few too ;-)
<magnon> sistpoty: which is some form of education :)
<magnon> eeerm
<magnon> organisation
<magnon> brainfart
<sistpoty> hehe, sure magnon
<JohnnyMast> well
<JohnnyMast> the problem could be @ malone
<magnon> my political theorist jumps in and thinks this is interesting from a scientific point of view as well :P
<JohnnyMast> when new reporters (bug reporters) are not instructed to post gaim bugs / kopete to MOTU instant messaging
<LaserJock> my scientist jumps in and thinks this is interesting from a political point of view as well ;-)
<JohnnyMast> so this group cares for other bugs because there are out of work
<ajmitch> sistpoty: did that list of mine turn out useful?
<sistpoty> JohnnyMast: it's a difficult situation, since we don't have the maintainer modell. you'd need some automatic assignement of packages (and thus bugs) <-> teams
<JohnnyMast> but okey ... hey ppl im off to bed !
<LaserJock> JohnnyMast: the teams can reassign the bugs to themselves
<JohnnyMast> LaserJock uhu
<sistpoty> ajmitch: I didn't take the list, but the script was/is very useful... exactly what I needed
<LaserJock> Kyral: hi
<sistpoty> gn8 JohnnyMast
<JohnnyMast> sleepwell
<Kyral> hey LaserJock
<ajmitch> sistpoty: great, madison-lite is fixed on tiber as well :)
<LaserJock> Kyral: @ubuntu.com email work yet?
<sistpoty> hehe
<Kyral> LaserJock: didn't check today
<Kyral> does yours?
<sistpoty> ajmitch: I guess your script is still much faster than madison-lite the way I use it... (in http://revu.tauware.de/~sistpoty/mergeWebTool/scripts/parseMoMFile.py)
<LaserJock> Kyral: nope
<ajmitch> sistpoty: merge page traceback!
<sistpoty> args, I knew I would break it again :/
<sistpoty> ajmitch: thx, fixed
<ajmitch> sistpoty: you lifted large chunks of my code without rewriting? ;)
<ajmitch> http://revu.tauware.de/~sistpoty/MoM/index.py?state=new has last_email@here entries?
<sistpoty> ajmitch: I only changed one line... and the scripts I wrote are ugly hacks as well ;) (the stuff in /scripts/)
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> why is zope on the list still?
<sistpoty> ajmitch: yep... these are merges, that have already been done, but have a newer debian version now
<ajmitch> it's been dropped in dapper, iirc
<sistpoty> ajmitch: dunno... will check the logs
<ajmitch> & dropped from sid
<\sh> good night ppl
<sistpoty> ajmitch: because I imported old logs, that didn't go in the list... but it still strange, since I use the current dapper/debian version _only_ for moving packages back to unassigned
<ajmitch> ok..
<ajmitch> it might have been unassigned but still on the list
<ajmitch> night \sh_away
<sistpoty> gn8 \sh_away
<sistpoty> ajmitch: seems like it... I'll drop it
<ajmitch> thanks :)
<ajmitch> I'd hate for someone to accidentally upload it to the archive
<sistpoty> deleted :)
<ajmitch> yay
<sistpoty> woohoo, my first mail to ubuntu-motu :)
<ajmitch> haha, congrats ;)
<sistpoty> thx
<Kyral> lol
* raphink is falling asleep  ...
<ajmitch> sistpoty: thanks for that update
<ajmitch> it's a very very useful tool
<sistpoty> ajmitch: no problem ;)
<sistpoty> ajmitch: actually I wrote it in the first place, because malone couldn't properly group packages yet/get search results like the bugzilla lists
<ajmitch> yeah, but that, paired with lpbugs & other tools, is very useful
<ajmitch> feel free to grab anything else of use in my scripts dir :)
<ajmitch> the buildlist.sh might be the only other useful one
<sistpoty> ajmitch: I'll browse through this once in a while ;)
<ajmitch> since it can take a large list & do the dch, pbuilder, etc to do a rebuild-only transition
<sistpoty> hm... sounds good :)
<ajmitch> yeah, I set it up to rebuild a whole lot of stuff & email the SUCCESS/FAIL logs :)
<sistpoty> hm... I already thought of generalizing the merge-list for a tool, that can handle various lists of sourcepackages
<ajmitch> if tiber has spare disk & cpu cycle for that, it could be good for unmet deps later
<sistpoty> ajmitch: cool
<ajmitch> 90G ought to be enough for now
<ajmitch> though it can fill up quick :)
<sistpoty> hehe
<ajmitch> only 512MB of RAM
<ajmitch> so it's not going to be the fastest build box around
<ajmitch> (faster than mine though) ;)
<sistpoty> and faster than mine *g*
<ajmitch> what do you have?
<sistpoty> amd duron 1300
<ajmitch> ah
<ajmitch> athlon xp 1800+
<sistpoty> I actually don't mind my box being that slow, but I do mind that my gf as a much faster laptop *g*
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> damn sorry.
<TheMuso> Trying to clear my console.
<minghua> hello everyone
<Kyral> yo
<ajmitch> hi
<sistpoty> hi minghua
<minghua> sistpoty: hi
<minghua> sistpoty: saw your mail about updated merge status.  have a question about your script though
<minghua> sistpoty: it doesn't seem to recognize a status change to rejected
<sistpoty> minghua: no, it doesn't
<ajmitch> minghua: such as?
<sistpoty> currently there have only been a few rejected, and since I'm lazy, I updated these by hand ;)
<minghua> sistpoty: malone bug 4173 was rejected by me as cppunit is in main now
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4173: cppunit: merge new debian version In: cppunit (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU, Status: Rejected https://launchpad.net/bugs/4173
<ajmitch> there'd be very few rejects
<minghua> sistpoty: please update 4173 then :-)  thanks.
<sistpoty> minghua: will do
<minghua> ajmitch: yes, very few indeed
<ajmitch> it's best to mercilessly bug sistpoty about it
<ajmitch> since you need to explain why things are rejected
<ajmitch> and we know that sistpoty loves getting nagged to fix things ;)
<sistpoty> hehe
<sistpoty> ajmitch: you should have received my mail to admin@tiber explaining how to manually interfere with the merge-list (was some time ago)?
<sistpoty> :P
* minghua is sad to see the need-merge bug number goes up to 200
* sistpoty is sad as well
<ajmitch> oh I probably did
* ajmitch will kill off a few more of the needs-merge list soon
<minghua> MOTUs are like Sisyphus :-)
<ajmitch> once I get through the accepted merges I have
<ajmitch> minghua: ?
<ajmitch> sistpoty: I don't have it in my inbox
<sistpoty> ajmitch: you'd need to to the delete in psql... I didn't put that in a script yet
<minghua> ajmitch: no?  you work with merges, then sid updates, and the merges starts once again
<sistpoty> ajmitch: I'll resend it to you... ajmitch @ gnu.org?
<ajmitch> sistpoty: I'm not in the admin alias
<minghua> ajmitch: and it happens for each release cycle
<ajmitch> minghua: sure
<sistpoty> ajmitch: ah, that explains...
<ajmitch> minghua: but that's expected
<ajmitch> sistpoty: @ubuntu.com, please
<sistpoty> ajmitch: ok
<sistpoty> ajmitch: sent
<ajmitch> ok, thanks
<Kyral> Hmm
<Kyral> the @ubuntu.com is a redirect right...
<ajmitch> yes
<Kyral> I sent a mail to kyral@ubuntu.com to test ti
<Kyral> s/ti/it
<Kyral> it didn't bounce back immeadiatly...and yet I haven't gotten it..
<sistpoty> Kyral: afaik it's sent to your LP contact address
<Kyral> maybe because I sent it from the addy that IS my LP contact addy lol
<Kyral> lol its not there yet
<Kyral> my college just started blocking the bounce mails lol
<raphink> sistpoty: do you know that your signature is not right in your email to universe-bugs ?
<sistpoty> raphink: it's right in my sent-mail but corrupted in the list
<raphink> ok
<raphink> so taht's because of the list
<raphink> just wanted to make sure
<sistpoty> raphink: I guess that mailman? will do some changes to it... eventually reencoding or s.th.
<raphink> ok
<raphink> grrr
<raphink> I'm having a problem with a package
<TerminX> does anyone know offhand when the KDevelop packages might be rebuilt to work with the newer KDE stuff in Dapper?  it looks like it hasn't been rebuilt with fixed dependencies and all that after the KDE 3.5 stuff went in or some such
<sistpoty> TerminX: I'll give it a try to rebuilt it... but since I'm no expert of kde packages, I won't make any promise ;)
<ajmitch> sistpoty: it ought to be a simple rebuild
<ajmitch> given enough patience ;)
<sistpoty> ajmitch: I guess you stress "ought" there ;)
<ajmitch> it is kde
<sistpoty> hehe
* ajmitch is doing a large upgrade
<ajmitch> I just removed kdevelop & 20 other packages from my box, to let the rest install in peace
<sistpoty> ajmitch: btw.: for a simple rebuild, do I upload with -xbuildy or should I ping lamont/infinity for it?
<ajmitch> upload with -xbuildy if it was -x
<sistpoty> ok, thx
<ajmitch> if it was -xubuntu1, just make it -xubuntu2
<sistpoty> thx
<TerminX> I would remove KDevelop to install the newer stuff but I use it almost every day.. only KDE app I use :p
* ajmitch never uses it anymore
<TerminX> what do you use?
<ajmitch> emacs, of course ;)
<TerminX> bleh
<TerminX> my project has around 100,000 lines of source in it, I've gotten nice and comfy having a decent IDE to manage it
<ajmitch> emacs is decent ;)
<Kyral> emacs owns :D
<TerminX> bleh, I'm a vim guy as far as terminal based text editors go ;p
<bmonty> vim!
* sistpoty believes in vim as well
<sistpoty> (but respects followers of the emacs-church as well)
<pietrus> TerminX: emacs has nice X support imho, specially the cvs version with gtk support
* ajmitch isn't a strong believer in ecumenism ;)
<sistpoty> hehe
<sistpoty> I guess there is only one thing where vim really beats emacs, that's loading time. apart from that everything else is imo a matter of taste.
<ajmitch> sistpoty: agreed, I still frequently use vim
<sistpoty> and /me sometimes uses emacs ;)
<magnon> Visual Studio is frigging awesome
<magnon> not that I use it anyway :)
<ajmitch> magnon: don't spread such lies :)
<magnon> it's true. I think they finally hired someone competent
<Kyral> Emacs > Alll
<magnon> FINALLY finished with the job application
<magnon> now to something completely different
<magnon> talking about proprietary software, some illiberal soul found it nescessary _not_ to "acquire" photoshop CS2 and install it on this machine, what a shame
* raphink goes to bed before hitting his computer 
<raphink> gn8 all
<sistpoty> gn8 raphink
* ajmitch wishes he could go to bed :)
<ajmitch> but it's only about 4pm here
<sistpoty> s/pm/am/ for me
<Kyral> hey guys someone asked me if I could package this for UBuntu. I don't think so because of Libdvdcss among others... http://freshmeat.net/projects/tuxrip/
<sistpoty> Kyral: can it be built with libs in multiverse?
<Kyral> sistpoty: It CAN. But it Reccommends libdvdcss...
<sistpoty> Kyral: will it work w.o. libdvdcss?
<Kyral> sistpoty: yes, but at a reduced capacity
<Kyral> the BSD License is okay right?
<sistpoty> hm... not quite sure about this... afaik you can't put a recommends/suggests field to packages out of the distribution, but I may be wrong
<sistpoty> Kyral: BSD? what I've read it's gpl?
<Kyral> sistpoty: I think a form of it is GPL Compatable
<sistpoty> if it's bsd, it's ok for the license... but still I'm not really sure about libdvdcss
<Kyral> yah neither am I...
<sistpoty> wasn't there a repo, which is for packages, that can't go into multiverse and uses only motu-approved packages? maybe this would be a good target
<Kyral> I dunno
<Kyral> should I just tell this guy
<Kyral> no?
<sistpoty> Kyral: found it: http://wiki.ubuntu-fr.org/doc/plf
<Kyral> PLF ain't official lol
<Kyral> its like Marilliat
<Kyral> and it isn't enabled by default
<sistpoty> of course it's not official ;) but if it can't go to multiverse, this might be a place for which you could make a package
<ajmitch> and it will never be on by default or even mentioned in ubuntu
<Kyral> ajmitch: Agreed
<ajmitch> considering how illegal a lot of their stuff is
* sistpoty needs some sleep now
<Kyral> cya
<sistpoty> g'night everybody
<ajmitch> night sistpoty
<Kyral> hmm
<LaserJock> man, I love responsive upstreams
<Kyral> eh?
<Kyral> FlowDesigner get back to you so I don't have to fix the SONAME problem?
<LaserJock> Kyral: no I haven't heard from them much
<Kyral> bah I need to fix it then lol
<LaserJock> Kyral: my package, plotdrop
<Kyral> anymore packages for MOTUScience?
<LaserJock> I emailed the author about ReviewDay
<Kyral> ah?
<LaserJock> He pushed a new version out tonight for me to do for ReviewDay
<LaserJock> I think he incorported all the changes I made in the package
<Lewix> hi
<Lewix> <Lewix> I have a laptop , toshiba M40/M45 serie and  I've downloaded the iso dvd of ubuntu. when I boot and type enter there's things that loads up then my screen goes black. as well with the dvd screen as with the install. I tried linux vga=771 with the live dvd because i want to be sure that it works before installing and I all seem to work till I got a erro message about xserver
<LaserJock> Lewix: try one channel at a time, spamming everywhere doesn't help
<Lewix> well
<Lewix> nobody awnser
<LaserJock> well, sometimes you need to wait for a bit
<Lewix> I've asked it for three das
<Lewix> days*
<LaserJock> Lewix: have you tried #ubuntu ?
<Lewix> of course
<Lewix> for 3days
<Lewix> they just ignore
<LaserJock> this isn't really a support channel
<Lewix> k
<Lewix> thanks
<zakame> afternoon all :D
<minghua> hello MOTUs, I wonder what is the procedure to ask for a package already in debian imported in to dapper?
<zakame> minghua: is this a new package?
<minghua> zakame: yes, never existed in ubuntu, entered sid about three months ago
<zakame> what package?
<minghua> zakame: xfonts-wqy, a bitmap font package for Chinese
<zakame> ooh!  I'm not sure, but I think a sync request is possible
<minghua> zakame: can you request that for me? ;-)
<ajmitch> minghua: source is in dapper
<zakame> do Ubuntu changes have to be made?
<ajmitch> get it building
<minghua> ajmitch: oh, okay
<ajmitch> xfonts-wqy |    0.6.0-1 |      unstable | source, all
<ajmitch> xfonts-wqy |    0.6.0-1 |        dapper | source
<zakame> ooh
<minghua> I only checked in aptitude and packages.ubuntu.com
<minghua> ajmitch: thanks for the hint
<ajmitch> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/x/xfonts-wqy/0.6.0-1/
* zakame sees the mail on debian-devel-announce
<ajmitch> ok, bad build-deps, should be easy to fix
<ajmitch> zakame: which one?
<minghua> ajmitch: yeah, simple to fix, I'll prepare an upload right now
<zakame> ajmitch: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2005/12/msg00004.html
<ajmitch> zakame: right
* zakame gets back to work on gtklp, ecb, and lighttpd, and posts debdiffs
<ajmitch> most of us aren't DDs in developing countries ;)
<zakame> hear, hear!
* ajmitch is able to otherwise afford a computer or 3
<zakame> good for you :) even I can't afford a mobile phone, I just borrow from my folks :'(
<ajmitch> old hardware isn't too expensive, thankfully
<zakame> that's true, its money that is
<zakame> then again, jaldhar hits the spot :))
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> daniels with his biting commentary... ;)
<zakame> hehe
<ajmitch> hey dholbach
<dholbach> hellas
<ajmitch> how's it going?
<dholbach> good, good - how about you?
<ajmitch> good :)
<ajmitch> we have a whole lot more merges to do
<dholbach> the 'main' guys too :)
<seth_k> when merging, is the best course of action to take the .merged, and manually add any .dropped that is relevant + needed?
<ajmitch> depends
<ajmitch> sometimes I just take the debian source & manaully do changes
<seth_k> yeah
<dholbach> same here
<ajmitch> there is *some* skill involved in merging, at times ;)
<seth_k> hehe
<ajmitch> not in anything I do
<seth_k> oh shush
<seth_k> and makefile changes can just be ignored, right, and just run make -f Makefile.whatever myself?
<ajmitch> um
<ajmitch> I'd say that depends on what's going on
<ajmitch> since we have basically no context to judge that
<irvin> i'm trying to setup a dapper chroot on breezy... wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot says i have to sudo debootstrap --variant=buildd --arch i386 breezy /var/chroot http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ is this correct?
<ajmitch> that'll setup a breezy chroot
<ajmitch> which you could then dist-upgrade
<irvin> so there's no dapper script yet?
<ajmitch> yes, there is
<ajmitch> and it's mentioned on that page where to get the appropriate debootstrap
<irvin> ajmitch, would i get the same debootstap version if i enable backports? i remember last night that i did get debootstrap_0.3.1.6ubuntu1_all.deb when i apt-get install dchroot debootstrap
<ajmitch> if that's the version you need..
<crimsun> mm merges
<irvin> hmmm
* irvin is wondering why there's no dapper script on /usr/lib/debootstrap/scripts
<bojan> morning
<crimsun> dapper's not currently bootstrappable
<minghua> okay, I got xfonts-wqy built.  now should I just open a malone bug and paste the debdiff?
<minghua> or just catch a MOTU here?
<crimsun> have you already filed a bug on Malone against xfonts-wqy?
<minghua> crimsun: no, haven't filed a bug
<crimsun> I would file a bug, then
<minghua> crimsun: will do
<minghua> now I have a problem...  this package has never been built in ubuntu so malone won't accept the source package name :-(
<minghua> what should I do now?
<dholbach> tell the guys in #launchpad and just file the bug without source package name
<dholbach> just assign it to the right team
<crimsun> kiko is probably the one to ping about that
<minghua> dholbach: okay, will go to #launchpad
<ajmitch> it's not that it hasn't been built in ubuntu
<minghua> this is getting more complicated than I thought...
<ajmitch> it's that it's a new source package in dapper
<dholbach> minghua: launchpad still has some child diseases
<minghua> ajmitch: you are right, it seems all new packages introduced in dapper don't have names in malone
<minghua> can any MOTU review my debdiff to xfonts-wqy?  https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/5568
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #5568: xfonts-wqy FTBFS due to missing build dependency In: Ubuntu, Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5568
<minghua> or should I assign it to MOTU reviewers instead of asking here?...
<dholbach> both is ok
<irvin> finally
<irvin> i got the debootstrap dapper version from packages.ubuntu.com and installed it manually
* irvin wonders how long this would take on a dial-up
<Mithrandir> a looong time
* StevenK writes a script to upgrade his two pbuilder chroots.
<Mithrandir> "pbuilder update ; pbuilder --basetgz /var/cache/pbuilder/otherchroot.tgz update" ?
<irvin> Mithrandir, any rough estimate how large this will be?
<irvin> i may run out of room in /var
<Mithrandir> irvin: it downloads into the chroot.
<Mithrandir> irvin: it's about 100MB or so
<irvin> /dev/hda6             9.2G  472M  8.3G   6% /var
<irvin> is that enough?
<Mithrandir> yes
<irvin> cool
<StevenK> Mithrandir: Harder, pbuilder doesn't know about dapper, and you can't have two different .pbuilderrc's.
<Mithrandir> true
<StevenK> (One is dapper, and the other is sid)
<StevenK> It's a 15 line script, and that's including the 6 lines to write a script for pbuilder execute to wrap its fangs around.
<siretart> morning
<crimsun> 'morning
<zakame> hiello  alll
<minghua> hi, siretart and zakame
<zakame> hi crimsun :)
<zakame> er, do I HAVE TO REOPEN BUGS FOR PREVIOUS MERGES< OR do I file a new bug?
<zakame> sorry, my keyboard's acting bad, on a cafe :(
<jsgotangco> zakame: yeah right
<crimsun> I've just been filing new ones
<zakame> jsgotangco: well I am at the caf atm, my old folks are using the box
<jsgotangco> zakame: you shouldn't really add "old" to your "folks"
<jsgotangco> :D
<zakame> jsgotangco: hrhr
<jsgotangco> its already assumed heh
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> brown.freenode.net
<seth_k> yay, noteedit merge done
* seth_k files launchpad bug
<zakame> seth_k: rock on
<seth_k|away> A merge for you guys: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/noteedit/+bug/5577
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #5577: noteedit: merge new debian version In: noteedit (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Reviewers Team, Status: PendingUpload https://launchpad.net/bugs/5577
<seth_k|away> have a good night
<ajmitch> evening people
<ajmitch> that notedit debdiff is impossible to read
<ajmitch> isn't there a patch flag on malone when uploading?
<StevenK> Yes.
<ajmitch> evening StevenK :)
<StevenK> When you Add Attachment, there is a Patch checkbox.
* StevenK waves.
<ajmitch> that's what I thought...
<StevenK> ajmitch: Can you request a sync of masqmail?
<ajmitch> I probably could
<StevenK> Yes, you're right. :-)
<ajmitch> how much is it worth to you? :)
<StevenK> I have no idea.
<ajmitch> just doing a test build
<ajmitch> StevenK: masqmail's breezy upload was a fix for debian 254720
<ajmitch> I didn't see that closed in the debian upload
<ajmitch> is the patch no longer needed?
<ajmitch> \sh: want to do a test amd64 build of masqmail for me (source from debian)?
<\sh> ajmitch: sure..but first I have to pick up my stuff for the company (notebook hw etc.) and have to go to the NOC....I will have some nice talks with my bosses...and if i'm coming home...then
<ajmitch> alright :)
<siretart> \sh: good luck and success!
<ajmitch> I hope you come out of the talks in 1 piece
<\sh> well...they are quite pissed :)
<siretart> ajmitch: you want masqmail from unstable be pbuild in dapper/amd64 pbuilder?
<crimsun> \sh: g'luck :)
<siretart> \sh: I can imagine
<ajmitch> siretart: yes please
<siretart> ajmitch: I'm currently doing a backup of the system for dapper upgrade, but after that, no problem.
<ajmitch> siretart: thanks
<ajmitch> someone needs to ship me an amd64 box :)
<siretart> ajmitch: you could ask Mithrandir for an account on ravel, I think
<ajmitch> siretart: I'd like to get a replacement desktop sometime next year actually
<siretart> ajmitch: ah, then amd64 is a good choice! :)
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> maybe a dualcore CPU, 2GB RAM, SATA drives..
<ajmitch> this cpu & motherboard is > 3 years old now
* jsgotangco currently uses a dualcore system
<ajmitch> StevenK: I'll hold off on the merge, configure.ac in the debian source still looks buggy
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: that's approximately what I have.  Quite nice.
<ajmitch> s/merge/sync request/
<ajmitch> I'll have to see what money I have for it though
<siretart> ajmitch: I sent you the buildlog
<siretart> (ftbfs)
<ajmitch> yeah, as expected
<ajmitch> StevenK: send a debdiff for the merge to malone, someone will eventually review it :)
<ajmitch> hi viviersf
<viviersf> yo bud
<ajmitch> what's new?
<viviersf> ag nm u
<ajmitch> heh
* siretart upgrades his amd64 box to dapper now
<dholbach> YAY!
<siretart> I hope it will survive..
<ajmitch> it will :)
<siretart> I need tvtime, and v4l. and nvidia binary shit
* ajmitch builds minghua's debdiff
<ajmitch> seems to be working
<ogra> works fine here
<siretart> ogra: i4l, too?
<ogra> (but i use nv though)
<siretart> argl, v4l, too?
<siretart> well, I will see.
<ogra> i have no tv card in my lappie
<siretart> just in case, I have a backup :)
<ajmitch> ah
<ajmitch> I don't think the font dir is /usr/lib/X11/fonts
<ajmitch> but /usr/share/X11/fonts
<siretart> this has changed. the later one is correct
<siretart> debian is still in /usr/lib/X11/fonts
<ajmitch> the /usr/share path?
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> minghua changed it to /usr/lib/X11 from /usr/X11R6/lib/X11
<ajmitch> so I'll add a note about that :)
<JohnnyMast> hi
<Amaranth> morning
<JohnnyMast> morning to you too Amaranth
<JohnnyMast> any reviewer awake ?
<jpatrick> JohnnyMast: you can poke raphink
<raphink> JohnnyMast: what is there to be reviewed?
<JohnnyMast> trimity just i tiny tiny mini buggy
<JohnnyMast> let me link you
<JohnnyMast> http://librarian.launchpad.net/1187875/timidity_2.13.2-7ubuntu2.diff
<raphink> where?
<JohnnyMast> there
<raphink> JohnnyMast: if you put freepats in the dependencies, you should remove it from the recommends:
<raphink> can't be in both ;)
<JohnnyMast> ur absolutely right my friend, just noticed it
<raphink> apart from that, it looks fine but I can't advocate
<raphink> I'm no MOTU
<ajmitch> speeling could do with sum werk to
<ajmitch> & a proper name in the changelog
<raphink> hehe indeed ;)
<ajmitch> is freepats really a dependency?
<ajmitch> does timidity fail out of the box with that error?
<raphink> bug 3085
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #3085: /etc/timidity/freepats.cfg: No such file or directory In: timidity (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Reviewers Team, Status: PendingUpload https://launchpad.net/bugs/3085
<ajmitch> I know
<ajmitch> I was referring to that
* ajmitch uses timidity without freepats installed
<raphink> yes I just wnated the link ;)
<raphink> hehe
<ajmitch> it's been awhile since I used timidity though
<JohnnyMast> well
<JohnnyMast> did you read the bug ?
<JohnnyMast> nm
<JohnnyMast> fixing it
<JohnnyMast> is it allowed to remove the Recomends line ?
<JohnnyMast> or do i have to leave it blank ?
<raphink> course you can remove it
<raphink> many packages don't have it
<JohnnyMast> oki
<JohnnyMast> that answers my question very well
<raphink> fix your name too, as ajmitch toldyou
<raphink> rave is not a name, it's a nick
<Treenaks> JohnnyMast: could you speak horizontally, instead of vertically?
<raphink> and I hope this is not what you use in your GPG key to sign your work ;)
<Treenaks> JohnnyMast: i.e. one sentence per line, instead of one word per line?
<raphink> huhu
<JohnnyMast> horizontaly ?
<Treenaks> JohnnyMast: yes
<Treenaks> horizontally
<Treenaks> not
<Treenaks> vertically
<Treenaks> (i.e
<Treenaks> like
<Treenaks> this)
<ajmitch> hi
<ajmitch> Treenaks:
<ajmitch> how
<ajmitch> are
<ajmitch> you?
<Treenaks> ajmitch: fine, thanks, you?
<ajmitch> :)
<TheMuso> That is fun to read, especially with a screen reader and speech synth.
<ajmitch> I'm alright, just updating a couple of packages that I need to mangle
<siretart> upgrade done, lets see if the machine boots..
<siretart> unbelievable. it booted, nvidia just works :)
<raphink> he
<raphink> great
<raphink> :)
<siretart> the monospace font changed, it is to small for my taste.. hm
<siretart> now for the stress test: quake4
<tseng> hm
<siretart> YAY!
<sivang> hi folks
<siretart> everything works! v4l, nvidia binary shit, gnome-panel!
<sivang> cool, so can I upgrade to dapper? :)
<ajmitch> yay, DSL died again
* siretart happily jumps in his room and searches something for lunch :)
<siretart> sivang: I just did, works great so far
<sivang> well, it had many bumps in the last two weeks
<sivang> I've had it at work
<ogra> siretart, the panel menu works for you ?
<siretart> ogra: it does on my amd64 machine
<sivang> maybe the panel wasa fixed
<siretart> ogra: this is a really strange gamin bug
<siretart> sivang: I don't think so, I'm still bitten on my testbook
<ogra> yes
<ogra> it dosnt work hete since weeks ... :/
<ogra> *here
<siretart> and still no idea what could be the cause for this
<siretart> I think I had this bug in breezy one time, but I cannot reproduce it ther
<ogra> gamin ... but no idea why ...
<ogra> and seb128 is on holiday today, even if he's online, i wont bother him
<siretart> it is a race condition for sure, but nobody seems to really know what it is exactly
<siretart> ogra: he already forwarded it upstream with debug info from mvo a week ago
<siretart> ogra: he cannot do much about it
<ogra> yup, i know ...
<ogra> i fear another inotify bug
<siretart> hehe /dev/disks/*/* is soo sweet :)
* ajmitch needs to sleep now
<ajmitch> night all
<dholbach> night ajmitch
<ogra> night ajmitch
<TheMuso> Night ajmitch.
<raphink> hmm
* raphink is getting crazy with a package
<jpatrick> mine?
<jpatrick> :(
<raphink> no
<raphink> mine
<raphink> lol
<raphink> there's a source that builds fine with `./configure & make"
<raphink> but it fails with my package
<raphink> and this is like argh
<raphink> ;)
<jpatrick> raphink: hay que tener mala suerte
<raphink> verded
<raphink> verdad
<jpatrick> food...
<zakame> hi all
<seth_k|away> ajmitch, it looks all right after you download it :P Sorry, didn't notice the patch checkbox. /me twiddles
<seth_k|away> ajmitch, fixed up for you. apologies
<zakame> heya Amaranth :)
<Amaranth> hey
<raphink> help
* raphink shouts in despair
<Amaranth> ?
<raphink> Amaranth: I've got a pb with a package
<raphink> it built fine before
<raphink> but now it doesn't anymore
<zakame> raphink: awww, what's the prob? :(
<raphink> I can't get to know why
<raphink> ./configure && make works
<raphink> but when I run dpkg-buildpackage it exits with an error
<raphink> and from then on I can't build with `./configure && make' anymore
<raphink> I'll paste the output in a pastebin
<raphink> http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/455459
<raphink> there
<raphink> in the end
<raphink> I've been trying to understand this ever since yesterday
<raphink> I even tried to repackage
<raphink> it just doesn't work
<raphink> any idea ?
<raphink> it says : no rule to build target "kyamo.pot", needed for "all-am"
<Amaranth> your package is doing more than ./configure && make and it's breaking it to the point where you probably need to make clean just to undo it
<raphink> well it's using automake
<raphink> but it worked before
<raphink> I'm using cdbs
<raphink> http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/kyamo-0512050635/kyamo-0.13rc3/debian/control
<raphink> this is my control file
<raphink> http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/kyamo-0512050635/kyamo-0.13rc3/debian/rules
<raphink> and the rules
<raphink> what is weird is that it worked a week ago
<raphink> and now it doesn' work anymore, even from fresh sources with the same debian/ folder
<raphink> so I guess something has been changed in the way to build packages since then
<raphink> in cdbs or debhelper or so
<Amaranth> did you get a new cdbs in that time?
<raphink> cause I didn't change my package
<raphink> I didn't check if I got a new cdbs Amaranth
<raphink> I keep my box up-to-date but I didn't note if cdbs had been updated
<Amaranth> check the changelog on cdbs, see when the most recent one was uploaded
<raphink> it fails to build in pbuilder aswell
<Amaranth> pbuilder will have the most recent cdbs
<raphink> 8th december
<raphink> Update the POT file architecture
<raphink> this is a modif from yesterday
<raphink> and my problem is with a pot file
<Amaranth> what package is that?
<raphink> so I guess there is a link
<raphink> cdbs
<raphink> although I'm building with kde.mk
<raphink> not gnome.mk
<raphink> wait  a min I'll show you
<Amaranth> generate a diff between the two versions? :)
<raphink> this is the cdbs changelog : http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/455464
<raphink> so it might rather be the transition from the 6th
<raphink> with kde.mk.in
<raphink>  Don't remove whole po/ directory in kde.mk.in, only .pot files in
<raphink>     it
<Amaranth> it's removing too soon
<raphink> I'll ask Riddell about it
<raphink> Riddell: ping
<raphink> well it says there's no rule to build it
<raphink> hmmm
<raphink> I might try to build it in an old pbuilder
<raphink> I think I have a pbuilder that was not updated since last week
<raphink> ;)
<Amaranth> ah, Riddell broke it :)
<raphink> on my sister's comp
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> haha
<Amaranth> raphink: pbuilder automagically downloads everything each time you run it, doesn't it?
<raphink> well i'll see
<raphink> Amaranth: no
<Amaranth> or does it only do that for build-deps and keep the same build-essential?
<raphink> you have to run pbuilder update
<raphink> in order to update the base.tgz
<allee> Amaranth: not by default
<raphink> it will download cdbs
<raphink> but it shouldn't downlod the new version if I didn't run pbuilder update I think
<Amaranth> doesn't cdbs make the package build-dep on it?
<raphink> well I'll try to build on my sister's box, without pbuilder first
<raphink> it builds
<raphink> so it's not my package that is broken :)
<Riddell> raphink: hmm?
<raphink> Riddell: the pb with kyamo seems to come from the new version of cdbs
<Riddell> bah
<raphink> the kde.mk rule
<raphink> deleting .pot files
<raphink> I've spend hours trying to find out ;)
<raphink> and my package builds fine on boxes with older cdbs versions
<Amaranth> it could be * Allow fail in kde.mk.in for not being able to extract messages
<raphink> could be
<jpatrick> raphink: you're missing the thing on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuPackagingGuide for cdbs in your rules
<raphink> but since the building error concerns a .pot file in po/
<raphink> I suspect it's linked to the last change in kde.mk
<raphink> what thing jpatrick ?
<jpatrick> raphink: go to the "Generating .pot files" place
<jpatrick> the "common-post-build-arch::" section
<raphink> jpatrick: hmm well this package used to build without that
<raphink> I think this is included in kde.mk
<raphink> but maybe I'm wrong
<jpatrick> raphink: until you add the clean:: rule?
<raphink> wait I'm reading
<allee> jpatrick: I'm not convienced that blindly adding this pot rule is a good idea until one has checked that rosetta and upstrean translator don't step on each other feets
<jpatrick> I'm going out for a while
* raphink wonders about the `If your package uses debhelper, or cdbs and includes it's own kde.mk file you need to add the rules yourself. '
<raphink> shouldn't it be the contrary?
<raphink> what's the use of using cdbs if that has me _add_ more stuff to debian/rules ?
<raphink> and I'm just checking : my package builds fine in the old dapper pbuilder on my sister's box
<raphink> i.e. not updated after the 5th
<raphink> but ok I'll try with the new stuff
<raphink> if that's about it, I'm still surprised about backwards compatibility issues with this
<raphink> Riddell: does that mean all kde packages now have to contain 3 more lines when using cdbs ?
<raphink> so all of them have to be changed?
<Riddell> raphink: no, why would they?
<Kyral> hey
<raphink> Riddell: because I had to add these new lines to my debian/rules so it would build correctly
<raphink> whereas until this week it built fine without them
<Riddell> raphink: what did you add?
<raphink> common-post-build-arch::
<raphink>         mkdir -p po
<raphink>         XGETTEXT=/usr/bin/kde-xgettext sh admin/cvs.sh extract-messages
<raphink> clean::
<raphink>         rm -rf po
<raphink> this
<raphink> and now it builds
<Riddell> raphink: if it's using kde.mk from cdbs it'll pick those up automatically
<raphink> Riddell: then why does https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuPackagingGuide say these lines should be added?
<raphink> and why did I have to add them to my debian/rules so as to be able to build my package, although it would build fine last week
<raphink> ?
<Riddell> raphink: they only need to be added if you're using your own kde.mk file (like all the KDE proper packages do)
<raphink> hmm ok
<Riddell> raphink: that is a mystery
<raphink> I'm not
<raphink> and it seems since the change in cdbs from the 6th, the pot rules fail in cdbs
<raphink> the package builds fine on a pbuilder using cdbs from last week
<Kyral> hmm...guys I just noticed something with pcmcia
<Kyral> we still use pcmcia-cs in Dapper..by default?
<raphink> no idea
<raphink> Riddell: could you build other kde packages using cdbs lately?
<Kyral> maybe its just my laptop, but I noticed that as pcmcia-cs started up, it failed with the msg saying that after the 2.6.13 series of kernel it should use pcmciautils..
<Amaranth> Kyral: Ask in #u-d or file a bug?
<Riddell> raphink: yes, they all work, but normally they don't expect a .pot file
<raphink> hmm
<Kyral> Amaranth: Yah I was just noting lol
<raphink> Riddell: the fact is that I'm using cdbs with the standard kde.mk file and since this week, it only builds by adding the 3 lines to debian/rules
<raphink> Riddell: and it fails because of a pot file if I don't add them
<Kyral> hmm, anyone have good experiance with Airlink Wireless cards or am I going to have to NDis it
<Riddell> raphink: hmm, put it on revu and I'll try and take a look at it
<raphink> Riddell: with the new lines?
<Riddell> raphink: yeah
<Kyral> Hey ogra got a mention in a review of Edubuntu
<raphink> oh nice :)
<Kyral> anyone want link?
<raphink> I won't read right now
<raphink> too busy
<ogra> Kyral, luckily they fixed it ... it said before that ogra == Mark Shuttleworth
<raphink> lol
<raphink> ooo
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> damnit I lost the link...I have to remember to install a clipboard daemon on this thing
<raphink> lol
<Amaranth> ogra: Loan me $5? :P
<Kyral> lol
<jpat|away> raphink: does it work now?
<raphink> yes, but that's not normal jpatrick
<raphink> I suspect this is linked to the late transition in cdbs
<ogra> Amaranth, sadly i got only he name assigned, not the account ;)
<raphink> it should work without this
<ogra> http://www.bloggingbaby.com/entry/1234000340071196/ btw
<zakame> evening \sh :D
<zakame> ogra_: rocking
<Kyral> heya \sh
<ogra> hey \sh why do i get a nice 80yr old woman on the phone with your mobile number ?
<\sh> evening :)
<\sh> ogra: hmpf? wrong number then?
<\sh> 01520bla
<\sh> ogra: don't call the ish number...it doesn't exist anymore..
<ogra> compared several times ...
<ogra> and your landline doesnt work either
<\sh> ogra: hmmm...I'll have to check
<\sh> right..I just plugged it back into the power
<ogra> couldnt call you back ...
<zakame> er did dbus revert to the old api?
<zakame> I suddenly couldn't build gpsd from sid/MoM, it seems to rely on the old dbus
<raphink> pause
<slomo_> zakame: definitly not... but i could take a look at it ;) that patch was by me
<zakame> slomo_: I know :) I'll take a look at it tomorrow, 'tis almost midnight :)
<slomo_> zakame: please wait a few seconds, ok? ;)
<zakame> slomo_: ok... it could be the gpsd source itself :)
<slomo_> zakame: the version in dapper currently compiles fine... so it's either upstream or you didn't merge the patch correctly ;)
<slomo_> i think the patch is still needed for 2.30, the patch mentioned in the debian changelog is/was for another dbus problem
<zakame> slomo_: indeed, I made sure the one in dapper should build fine ;)
<slomo_> zakame: ok, just take my patch over to the new version... if it applies cleanly and works, fine... otherwise look at what have changed and adjust the patch :)
<zakame> slomo_: yes, I just dropped 13_dbus_new_api, yet its the same failure
<slomo_> do not drop the 13* patch
* zakame soft-opens the MOTU Java Growers LP team \o/
<zakame> slomo_: ok! you're my hero! :D
<slomo_> Java growers?
<zakame> hehe yeah... next, MOTU Camel Drivers (motuperl) :)
<zakame> anyway, I'll read the patch tomorrow, good night all! tc slomo_ ! :D
<slomo_> what is java growers for? why the 'growers'? ;)
<slomo_> gn8 :)
<dholbach> haha :)
<zakame> er, as in coffee growing... my next choice was `Java Sippers', but I thought that doesn't sound right
<zakame> gn8 really! :D
<slomo_> hehe
<minghua> good morning
<JohnnyMast> hi
<Kyral> hmm what is the KubuntuDevel channel?
<jpatrick> Kyral: #kubuntu-devel
<Kyral> k
<Kyral> actually...hmmm someone check the Users ML
<Kyral> guy has a question on how ot get involved and I am unsure how to answer fully
<jpatrick> Kyral: http://wiki.kubuntu.org/HelpingKubuntu ?
<Kyral> and Ubuntu :P
<Kyral> Just the standard, join #ubuntu-motu #ubuntu-devel #kubuntu-devel and htings like that?
<ogra> Kyral, he should always start at MOTU
<jpatrick> Kyral: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/participate
<ogra> exactly :)
<ogra> i.e. no matter if yu want to help gnome or kde, you'll need a MOTU to bring your fixes/patches in ...
<Kyral> yup
<Kyral> I am gonna install Kubuntu just to help more lol
<ogra> pfft ... install edubuntu ;)
<Kyral> ogra: I actually can lol
<jpatrick> ogra: Dansguardian for Edubuntu ?
<ogra> heh
<ogra> jpatrick, nope
<Kyral> Can Kubuntu-Desktop, Edubuntu-Desktop, Ubuntu-Desktop, and Xubuntu-Desktop live nicely? lol
<ogra> jpatrick, we're looking at willow currently
<Kyral> I'll have MetaBuntu :P
<ogra> jpatrick, dansguardian or squidguard require a lot of administration work ... and a decent amount of knowledge ... willow uses bayesian filtering and learns bad pages itself like a spam filter
<jpatrick> ogra: I have DG and squid running here - was easy to set up
<ogra> jpatrick, you need to update the black/whitelists regulary ...
<jpatrick> oh...
<ogra> and i bet you are not an unskilled teacher ...
<jpatrick> I don't :P
<jpatrick> ogra: I'm still at school
<ogra> i want a tool for edubuntu a normal biology teacher could use
<ogra> so imagine your bio teacher trying to set up dansguardian (and note we'll never ship webmin)
<Kyral> ogra: How about including EasyChem with Edubuntu
<ogra> i havent looked at it yet, we wont make big changes in the app selection for dapper
<ogra> thats a dapper+1 task :)
<jpatrick> good point
<seth_k> EasyChem is still quite feature-limited anyways, from what I can tell in playing with it. It does little other than draw molecules, and isn't very polished.
<seth_k> still a fun program though, I played with it for a long time :P
<Kyral> seth_k: It isn't meant to be full of features lol
<Kyral> from the desc it does what it does :D
<LaserJock> Kyral: I think the EasyChem is more of a professional tool than educational one
<Kyral> LaserJock: yah, but teachers could use it
<seth_k> Kyral, it needs to polish out "doing what it does" better
<LaserJock> Kyral: true
<Kyral> seth_k: Hmm, I think I need to talk to Upstream now lol
<LaserJock> I'm always in search of a good 2d molecule drawing program
* seth_k too
<Kyral> Jeez...what is going on with us.archive.ubuntu.coim
<seth_k> i dunno, I've just started using archive.ubuntu.com for everything
<seth_k> us has problems all the time
<LaserJock> seth_k: me too
<JohnnyMast> what was the url to lpbugs.py ?
<minghua> JohnnyMast: I don't remember off the top of my head, but it's mentioned in the mail to ubuntu-devel list
<minghua> JohnnyMast: go check the archive and you'll find it :-)
<JohnnyMast>  dont feel like going trough all the archives
<LaserJock> \sh: ping?
<LaserJock> siretart: For some reason all the bugs I've reported with lpbugs.py have bad gpg signatures. Do you know what could be causing that?
<siretart> LaserJock: do you have uploaded your key to launchpad correctly?
<LaserJock> siretart: yes, I believe so
<siretart> hm
<LaserJock> I'm really not good with gpg yet but I think it is all good.
<LaserJock> I just thought it was odd, how would lpbugs.py sign it incorrectly?
<siretart> LaserJock: look at the source, it just calls gpg to sign it
<LaserJock> siretart: when I do it by hand it is fine
<siretart> LaserJock: this is really strange
<LaserJock> siretart: let me try lpbugs.py again, just a sec
<JohnnyMast> sire thanks for your email
<JohnnyMast> im currently writing a reply
<LaserJock> siretart: it looks to me like all the sig are bad from lpbugs.py, I tried ajmitch and minghua too
<siretart> LaserJock: well, lpbugs.py works for me. interesting point, though
<LaserJock> siretart: all I did was import their keys and run gpg --verify on their emails
<JohnnyMast> ow btw siretart can you link me to lpbugs.py i lost i t after my dapper install
<LaserJock> siretart: I also tried enigmail in thunderbird
<LaserJock> JohnnyMast: http://tiber.tauware.de/~shermann/motu-tools
<siretart> http://tiber.tauware.de/~siretart/motu-tools
<LaserJock> ooppps, that was the old one
<JohnnyMast> siretart thanks again
<siretart> JohnnyMast: cheers!
<JohnnyMast> :)
<LaserJock> siretart: anyway, I am not really concerned about the sigs, I just was wondering if I was doing something wrong
<dholbach> good night guys
<jpatrick> night
<Kyral> cya
<siretart> gn8 dholbach!
<LaserJock> cya dholbach
<crimsun> 'night daniel
<dholbach> night other daniel :)
<bojan> hi!
<crimsun> hi
<JanC> <\sh> sivang: well...we had a incredible idea...we are rewriting the linux kernel in python...but with a jvm beneath to have it running even on embedded devices ,)
<JanC> why not use plain python?
<JanC> \sh: http://sourceforge.net/projects/cleese/  <-- there already is an OS written in python  :)
<jpatrick> I think John Cleese wrote it...
<jpatrick> "written mostly in Python"
<crimsun> I think I'll have my students consider nachos next semester
<LaserJock> crimsun: I conside nachos almost every day at school, there is a good mexican place next to the Chemistry building ;-)
<JanC> jpatrick: it has a python VM with some special builtins to access hardware ports etc.
<crimsun> LaserJock :))
<JanC> then you can write drivers in python  :)
<JanC> they have a mouse driver and a vga driver written in python IIRC  :)
<JanC> and have even written a little game that runs on the OS
<crimsun> hmm.
<crimsun> http://tiber.tauware.de/~sistpoty/MoM/index.py?state=new is a bit odd
<crimsun> do I need to file new bugs and then immediately close them for ones like vtk, vlc, xmoto?
<siretart> huh?
<siretart> tiber offline?
<crimsun> it's back.
<crimsun> I was just going to ask but figured I'd wait a few more minutes before saying something
<siretart> it was rebooted
<siretart> Dec  9 15:27:39 tiber -- MARK --
<siretart> Dec  9 15:47:39 tiber -- MARK --
<siretart> Dec  9 15:53:52 tiber syslogd 1.4.1#17ubuntu3: restart.
<crimsun> intentional, I presume?
<siretart> looks like power failure
<crimsun> d'oh :/
<crimsun> last would confirm that
#ubuntu-motu 2005-12-15
* #ubuntu-motu  [freenode-info]  If you're at a conference, please contact freenode staff to make sure we've made special allowance for many users coming into our network from a single internet address ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp ). Private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked, except to network staff, services and participating registered users ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg )... Thanks!
<crimsun> minghua: Hi, someone mentioned earlier that src:scim-tables needs to be rebuilt against the new libscim-dev
<minghua> crimsun: yes, actually scim-pinyin, scim-tables, scim-chewing, scim-prime, scim-canna, scim-anthy, scim-skk, scim-uim, and mlterm all need rebuild due to the libstdc++ allocator ABI transition of scim.
<minghua> I think dholbach rebuilt scim-hangul a few days ago answering specific request on malone
<LaserJock> is there a way to keep .svn directories from being included in a package?
<minghua> it would be nice if MOTU can rebuild them all, of course
<minghua> LaserJock: yes, look at -i option for dpkg-buildpackage (and I believe debuild also)
<LaserJock> minghua: thanks
<crimsun> minghua: ok, I can manage that. I just wanted to check if you guys were going to do it in Debian any time soon, since then Ubuntu could sync.
<odla> what engine do i need to listen to flac?  is it the gstreamer?
<minghua> crimsun: I am only maintainer of three packages among that bunch
<minghua> crimsun: I plan to upload a new scim-tables this weekend, so acutally you can skip that :-)
<crimsun> minghua: ok great :) That's what I wanted to check for.
<crimsun> no sense in rebuilding and then syncing if a sync will suffice :)
<minghua> crimsun: of course, thanks for helping
<crimsun> np
<thierry> LaserJock : hi
<LaserJock> thierry: hi
<Kyral> hey LJ
<thierry> LaserJock : do you have any time to help me packaging with .desktop file?
<Kyral> .desktop is easy
<LaserJock> Kyral: then maybe you and thierry should head over to -motu-school
<Kyral> i was just gonna point him to EasyChem lol
<thierry> Kyral : what is EasyChem?
<Kyral> thierry: its the package I pretty much cut my teeth on
<thierry> Kyral : k... first I need to get the dapper source... who do I do without disturbing all my apt-get config?
<thierry> how*
<Kyral> thierry: for what?
<Kyral> EasyChem?
<LaserJock> thierry: do you have a particular package you want to add the .desktop file too?
<Kyral> Its still in REVU lol
<Kyral> http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/easychem-0512011625/easychem-0.6/
<thierry> LaserJock : let's say  euler
<thierry> first the source... I just discovered yesterday that I was always getting the breezy source to do my changes, how do I get the dapper one without disturbing my apt-get config?
<Kyral> replace the deb-src lines with Dapper ones
<crimsun> add the dapper deb-src lines temporarily
<crimsun> don't replace the current ones, just add the dapper deb-src ones.
<LaserJock> crimsun: what about a dapper chroot?
<thierry> crimsun : isn't there a direct command I could use to get it?
<LaserJock> thierry: you can also go to packages.ubuntu.com
<crimsun> thierry: there is, but you have to have them all defined in /etc/apt/sources.list
<crimsun> LaserJock: I presume a dapper chroot would already have access to dapper ;)
<crimsun> [unless you were offering that as an alternative] 
<LaserJock> alternative
<LaserJock> I guess
<crimsun> right, I'm a little slow on Fridays
<Kyral> Okay I go watch anime
<Kyral> ping me if its important
<thierry> crimsun : so I add "deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu dapper universe
<thierry> deb-src http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu dapper universe" at the end of my source.list
<thierry> ?
<crimsun> thierry: _only_ deb-src http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu dapper main universe
<rraphink> at what time does the REVU day begin ?
<rraphink> 10 UTC right?
<thierry> LaserJock : does a chroot takes a lot of disk place?
<LaserJock> thierry: less than installing dapper on another partition
<rraphink> thierry: mine takes about 84MB
<thierry> ho ok... about nothing for me thanks
<rraphink> well 80MB that is
<rraphink> when it's not used
<rraphink> when used, it takes more of course ;)
<LaserJock> holy cow, mine is 3.9 GB
<thierry> ho...
<crimsun> LaserJock: clean out the archive cache
<thierry> LaserJock : I guess I'll just erase my old kung-fu movies...
<LaserJock> oh wait, that might be including my bind mounts
<crimsun> hah
<LaserJock> thierry: it doesn't take much honestly
<thierry> k
<thierry> in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot?highlight=%28chroot%29 , by "sudo apt-get install dchroot debootstrap" do they mean to install the .deb file we downloaded before?
<rraphink> LaserJock: your base.tgz is 3.9GB ??
<LaserJock> rraphink: not pbuilder, chroot
<rraphink> LaserJock: oh
<rraphink> dchroot
<rraphink> well I use pbuilder :s
<LaserJock> I use both
<rraphink> what is the use of using both?
<LaserJock> ok, mine is actual 981Mb
<rraphink> what does dchroot do that pbuilder does not?
<LaserJock> rraphink: I can install stuff and play around in dchroot
<rraphink> ok
<rraphink> so you cn test softs in the chroot
<rraphink> pbuilder is a chroot to build packages cleanly
<rraphink> and dchroot to install and test
<thierry> LaserJock : in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot?highlight=%28chroot%29 , by "sudo apt-get install dchroot debootstrap" do they mean to install the .deb file we downloaded before?
<rraphink> right?
<LaserJock> right but it is cleaned each time
<rraphink> ok that's what I want :;)
<rraphink> good to know I'm gonna get one
<rraphink> so you can test if packages work on a clean install
<thierry> rraphink : do you get one like NOW?  Because I do, maybe you could guide me a bit...
<rraphink> thierry: well i'm going to get one now yes
<rraphink> not going to take a whole hour on it since it's already 1:50 AM here
<LaserJock> guys, I gotta go for a bit, thierry if you still need help I should be on later
<thierry> LaserJock : k thanks, but I might be gone... thanks anyway
<rraphink> if you need help I can help thierry
<thierry> rraphink : ok in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot?highlight=%28chroot%29 , by "sudo apt-get install dchroot debootstrap" do they mean to install the .deb file we downloaded before?
<LaserJock> thierry: ok, I reccomend you go through https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot for Breezy and then once you have it set up do a dist-upgrade to dapper from within you chroot
<rraphink> depends thierry
<thierry> k...
<rraphink> what kind of chroot do you want?
<rraphink> do you want a dapper chroot on top of breezy?
<thierry> dapper one to simply get source package from dapper and testing stuff
<rraphink> ok
<rraphink> but on top of breezy?
<rraphink> or on top of dapper?
<rraphink> are you running breezy or dapper right now that is
<rraphink> ?
<thierry> breezy
<rraphink> ok
<rraphink> then install the dapper deboostrap
<rraphink> with dpkg -i
<thierry> k
<thierry> then sudo debootstrap [--variant=buildd]  [--arch i386]  dapper /var/chroot/ http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/
<thierry>  ?
<rraphink> did you set the conf file already?
<thierry> yes
<rraphink> then yes
<rraphink> rmove the options ( [...]  )
<thierry> why?
<rraphink> because if you don't use them
<rraphink> then don't put them
<thierry> [--variant=buildd]  is fine for me...
<thierry> I want to build packages...
<rraphink> [ ]  means it's an option
<rraphink> so either you remove the [ and ]  if you want the options
<rraphink> or you remove the whole thing
<rraphink> which I prefer to do ;)
<rraphink> but it's up to you
<thierry> rraphink : I get this thierry@modemcable050:~/Desktop$ sudo debootstrap dapper /var/chroot/ http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/
<thierry> E: No such script: /usr/lib/debootstrap/scripts/dapper
<rraphink> I think laserjock told you to use breezy ;)
<rraphink> and then update it to dapper ;)
<thierry> k sorry
<rraphink> so run the command with breezy
<rraphink> then chroot in your chroot
<rraphink> and then change the sources.list in the chroot and run an update && upgrade
<thierry> k... and to exit the chroot I only do "exit" ?
<rraphink> yep
<thierry> rraphink : if I knew creating a chroot was so easy, I would have done it before
<rraphink> hmm I'm not sure of the last part
<rraphink> seems strange to me
<rraphink> well no it works fine :)
<rraphink> ok I'm all done with setting it
<rraphink> is it ok for you too thierry ?
<rraphink> o_O
<thierry> rraphink : just adding stuff to fstab...
<rraphink> I'm banned from #launchpad ??
<rraphink> how can I be banned from a channel i've never been on :(
<rraphink> thierry: could you drop a line to an op on #launchpad to get to know how it is that i'm banned on it?
<raphink> whois Riddell
<thierry> rraphink : k
<raphink> thanks
<thierry> raphink : #launchpad :Please register with services and use the IDENTIFY command (/msg nickserv help) to speak in this channel
<thierry> :(
<raphink> I am registered thierry
<raphink> and logged
<raphink> and all ;)
<raphink> still : [474]  #launchpad You're banned from that channel
<thierry> raphink : no that's for me
<raphink> thierry: ;)
<thierry> raphink : I'm not registred so I can't tell them your problem... sorry
<raphink> I have registered this nickname even before launchpad ever existed
<raphink> thierry: you're on #launchpad though ;)
<thierry> yep
<raphink> but you don't speak ;)
<raphink> do you know the names of the ops on #launchpad?
<thierry> yeah
<thierry> no but maybe \sh_ could help you, he's on that channel and this one
<raphink> nope
<raphink> \sh_ is not on #launchpad
<raphink> if he is, he uses another nick ;)
<thierry> raphink : dchroot -c mychroot -d give me some errors and doesn't work, but I can still use sudo chroot /var/chroot/
<raphink> siretart: could you get to know why I'm banned on #launchpad without even having been there ever?
<raphink> can you paste the errors in a pastebin so as to show me?
<thierry> raphink : it's not big I'll do it here
<thierry> Executing shell in 'mychroot' chroot.
<thierry> dchroot: chdir: No such file or directory
<raphink> ok
<raphink> did you create mychroot in the dchroot conf file?
<thierry> wait something went wrong, I'll redo some stuff...
<raphink> k
<thierry> raphink : how do I get out of editor in when I use sudo??
<thierry> like to save my changes and exit
<raphink> what editor did it open? ;)
<raphink> it depends on your editor
<thierry> it's editor!
<thierry> sudo editor /etc/dchroot.conf
<raphink> no
<raphink> editor is not a program
<thierry> ho
<JohnnyMast> pico rox !
<raphink> it's a link to your prefered editor
<raphink> mine is nano
<raphink> but I don't know what yours is ;)
<JohnnyMast> nano == pico :)
<thierry> how do you set yours?
<raphink> JohnnyMast: :)
<thierry> because I don't know what's mine?
<raphink> thierry: do you have commands listed on the bottom of the screen?
<JohnnyMast> w00t :) /me hugs raphink for liking nano
<thierry> no
* raphink hugs JohnnyMast too :)
<JohnnyMast> awww :)
<raphink> thierry: do you have colon on the bottom of the screen?
<thierry> raphink : never mind, it's ok
<thierry> I just switched to use nano :)
* StevenK dislikes nano, and uses xemacs when he can, and vi when he can't.
<raphink> heh
<raphink> linux is about choice ;)
<raphink> ok well
<raphink> bed time if I want to be awake enough to review tomorrow
<raphink> :)
<StevenK> You so don't.
<raphink> StevenK: sorry?
<StevenK> "It doesn't build? That's okay, I'll upload it anyway."
<raphink> what do you mean StevenK ?
<StevenK> raphink: You so don't want to be awake enough to review tomorrow. :-)
<raphink> well I don't get the "you so don't" part
<raphink> it's not an expression I know
<tseng> you really dont
<raphink> oh ok
<raphink> hmm well
<raphink> how are packagers going to improve their packages if they're not reviewed ?
<StevenK> raphink: I was joking. :-)
<raphink> and I'm wondering who you were talking about with the "It doesn't build? etc..."
<raphink> if that was about packages on REVU in general or somehow aimed to me in particular
<StevenK> raphink: It was also a joke.
<JohnnyMast> i wonder (for the package im doing my self) if its good to use Makefile with a python project (read revu package == deb)
<raphink> StevenK: I guess I have yet to improve my english in order to grasp your jokes
<JohnnyMast> would it be respectfull
<raphink> JohnnyMast: use setup.py
<JohnnyMast> i guesed that
<JohnnyMast> thats why i asked
<raphink> k
<JohnnyMast> i was removing that because it was to peronaliced
<raphink> StevenK: you'll have to explain me the jokes though ;)
<StevenK> raphink: Do I have to? They were bad jokes. :-)
<raphink> well I'd just like to understand
<raphink> so I can understand your jokes better last time ;)
<raphink> next time
<raphink> sorry
<StevenK> The crux is that if you aren't awake to review stuff properly, you'll accept anything.
<StevenK> See, it's terrible.
<raphink> oooh ic
<raphink> ok
<raphink> well I can't avocate anyway
<raphink> so it's ok ;)
<StevenK> I could probably review stuff, but I'm going to wait until I'm more comfortable doing so.
<raphink> I'm not to be sleepy enough to check the advocate box
<raphink> ;)
<raphink> ok
<raphink> reviewing is very nice
<raphink> you learn a lot of things doing so
<raphink> :)
<raphink> well at least I do ;)
* StevenK wonders why the revu page changed.
<raphink> how do you mean it changed StevenK ?
<StevenK> raphink: It on state=new, it shows ones that have already been uploaded.
* #ubuntu-motu  [freenode-info]  If you're at a conference, please contact freenode staff to make sure we've made special allowance for many users coming into our network from a single internet address ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp ). Private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked, except to network staff, services and participating registered users ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg )... Thanks!
<viviersf> elo ajmitch
<\sh_> good morning lovers
<viviersf> lol morning stephan
<\sh_> it's 4:43am and I had  a nice night :) so good night everybody
<viviersf> heh
<zakame> hello! :D
<zakame> SloMoSnail: hmm, seems the new gpsd had a new program that used the old dbus api :(
<ajmitch> hi
<zakame> morning ajmitch :)
* StevenK waves to ajmitch.
<zakame> er what's the new function to use for dbus_message_iter_get_* ?
* StevenK tries to build xemacs21 21.4.18-1.
<crimsun> mm gstreamer0.10
<scot> hi all
<zakame> heya john74 :D
<john74> awfully quiet in here
<john74> hi :-)
<zakame> john74: it will be a lot noisier later, as today's the REVU day ! :D
<john74> ah, ok :-)
<zakame> wb minghua :)
<minghua> hi zakame
* minghua is in bed now :-)
<ajmitch> already? :)
<minghua> ajmitch: yes, so that I can get up early enough to catch your lecture :-)
* zakame thanks the Doxygen devs
<StevenK> Blah.
<StevenK> My machine keeps ICEing compiling xemacs21/.
<StevenK> s/\///
<zakame> ICE?
<StevenK> Internal Compiler Error
<zakame> ah
<zakame> is this related to the missing deps on libxaw7?
<StevenK> I seriously doubt it.
<StevenK> This is at *build* time.
<zakame> hm
<zakame> YAY! gpsd now builds!!! \o/
<zakame> er, if I upload something to fix a build error, can I upload it with the same version as the ftbfs'd one, or do I bump it up?
<Amaranth> bump it up
<zakame> Amaranth: ok then :) thanks!
<seth_k> ajmitch, I forgot to rebuild source the first time after debdiffing from 2.8.0-1 to 2.8.0-1ubuntu1, but now it's all fixed on bug #5577 -- I hereby forswear packaging at 4am
<Ubugtu`> Malone bug #5577: noteedit: merge new debian version In: noteedit (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: Accepted https://launchpad.net/bugs/5577
<irvin> anyone here?
<irvin> i wanna try out merging for motu, i've got my dapper chroot and pbuilder ready... what next?
<zakame> evening all! :)
<zakame> hm, just making sure, but if I have java-gcj-compat in B-D-I, could I also put jikes in as well?
<zakame> or should I keep ecj | ecj-bootstrap ('tis already in there)...
<zakame> waah, gpsd ftbfs on non-x86 arches :(
<siretart> does anyone use madwifi from l-r-m/2.6.15?
<ajmitch> hi siretart
<siretart> huhu ajmitch
<siretart> ajmitch: have you installed a cronjob somewhere to update the madison mirror?
<siretart> oh never mind, it is in /etc/cron.daily/update-madison-lite-mirror
<ajmitch> it was already there
<siretart> jupp
* ajmitch is just trying to package something from scratch ;)
<irvin> ajmitch: be waiting for your lecture
<ajmitch> I've had too many people tell me that :)
* ajmitch doesn't want to get people's hopes up
<siretart> there is still 8.5h to go
<irvin> ajmitch is too humble
<ajmitch> no, I'm just worried that people think this is a straightforward packaging howto
<ajmitch> that they'd take what I have & think that this is the way to do it
* ajmitch has the same package done with cdbs, debhelper (via dh_make originally), and now from scratch
<ajmitch> I think it's the first package I did
<zakame> ajmitch: go go go! :D
<irvin> would it help if i read up on debian docs on packaging?
<zakame> though I'm sad to say I might not be able to attend the lecture, that'll be 1 in the morning here :(
<zakame> irvin: sure! :D
<ajmitch> zakame: don't worry, it'll be 6am for me ;)
<ajmitch> siretart: so it's not 8.5h to go
<zakame> ajmitch: I'll read the log later then ;)
* ajmitch will not be coherent
<siretart> so you should perhaps go to bed now ;)
<siretart> which package is it, btw?
<ajmitch> treecc, something that noone will ever use ;)
* ajmitch can't go to bed now
<ajmitch> I've still got to get this prepared & working ;)
<zakame> treecc!
<ajmitch> zakame: yes?
<ajmitch> don't tell me you know of it?
<zakame> well I remembered it being used in my CS class, such a long time ago
<ajmitch> surely not
<ajmitch> this must be something different
<ajmitch> it *is* used for compiler construction, using aspect-oriented proggramming
<zakame> hm, prolly, though the name is familiar
<ajmitch> http://www.southern-storm.com.au/treecc.html
* StevenK curses.
<StevenK> Damn this machine, and damn it's ICEs.
<zakame> ah, I'm wrogn then :P
<zakame> er?
<zakame> still that xemacs21-mule thing?
<StevenK> Yup. I'm trying to see if a rebuild will fix a open-network-stream error, but I can't build it.
<zakame> awww
<zakame> er, binary gpsd is missing in packages.u.c? I get a 404 :(
* zakame is tempted to curse.
<ajmitch> why, zakame ?
* ajmitch stumbled across your blog on planet debian today, btw ;)
<zakame> well, gpsd doesn't build on dapper non-x86 buildds, and is also the same case in Debian :(
<ajmitch> ah
<ajmitch> sounds like you've got some porting work to do
<zakame> good thing I got the dbus api change to work, thanks to the docs :)
* StevenK cries.
<StevenK> \sh didn't change much in his breezy upload of xemacs21.
<StevenK> And yet, open-network-stream-internal seems broken.
<zakame> ajmitch: I don't update my blog very much, but I intend to change that :)
<ajmitch> zakame: undefined reference to floor?
<ajmitch> StevenK: btw did you fix up masqmail?
<zakame> ajmitch: yes, considering floor(3) can be found in the darwin manpages :(
<ajmitch> zakame: debian bug #340852
<Ubugtu`> Error: Error getting Malone bug #340852: Bug does not exist
<ajmitch> need to link with -lm
<ajmitch> should be a simple fix :)
<zakame> yeah, it should
* zakame gets working with a dpatch-edit-patch 15_gpxlogger_floor_fix :))
<zakame> I do make changes to Makefile.am right, then rebuild the autotools ?
<zakame> heya raphink :)
<StevenK> ajmitch: Yes.
<StevenK> ajmitch: MoM had a 266K diff. There is a 3Kb debdiff attached to the bug.
<StevenK> ajmitch: I did evil things in debian/rules instead. :-)
* StevenK comes to the conclusion that this stupid POS Acer isn't going to deal with an 80Gb drive as a boot drive at all.
<raphink> hi zakame :)
<ajmitch> StevenK: yes, I see the debdiff now
<StevenK> With an 80Gb drive as the only drive in it, it reports that the drive on the primary master channel is 14Gb, and that it has a 24000Mhz processor.
<ajmitch> horrendously evil
<StevenK> ajmitch: But good evil, right? :-)
<zakame> hrhr
<ajmitch> umm
<ajmitch> it's automake
<ajmitch> it can't be good
* StevenK grins.
<StevenK> I even refused to call it by name in the changelog.
<Mithrandir> auto* is love.
* Mithrandir hides
<zakame> Mithrandir: w00t
<ajmitch> heh
* StevenK gags Mithrandir.
<Mithrandir> StevenK: you're in the wrong tz for that. :-P
<StevenK> Am not!
* Mithrandir goes to eat breakfast
<zakame> hm, should I edit Makefile.am, or just set LDFLAGs?
* raphink is having breakfast
* zakame prepares dinner
<raphink> hi freeflying
<raphink> lol
* StevenK had dinner over 3 hours ago.
<raphink> hmmmm
* raphink had dinner about 12 hours ago
<raphink> or maybe more actually
* zakame finishes 15_gpxlogger_floor_fix.dpatch . 151K :'(
<ajmitch> zakame: that's extremely large
<StevenK> -rw-r--r--  1 steven users 8.1M 2005-12-10 03:46 moin_1.3.5-1ubuntu1.debdiff
<StevenK> This debdiff is so large I can't upload it to LP.
<zakame> ajmitch: indeed :( too large
<zakame> I should just edit rules to have -lm forced in LDFLAG, help?
<raphink> StevenK: how did you get such a large diff?
<ajmitch> raphink: i18n magic
<raphink> oh
<raphink> ;)
<StevenK> *Lots* of i18n magic
<siretart> wow: http://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2005/12/msg00017.html
<zakame> awww
<siretart> things that should not happen :(
<ajmitch> siretart: you're surprised?
<ajmitch> you haven't spent enough time in #debian
<siretart> ajmitch: a bit.
<siretart> why is debian so hostile?
<ajmitch> it's not
<ajmitch> certain people might be
<ajmitch> #debian as a whole is a bit of a mess
<ajmitch> which happens when you have a lot of people in the irc channel
<zakame> er, is it just me, or is  #debian quiet today?
<zakame> oh
<raphink> I think many Debian people believe Ubuntu is taking Debian users
<raphink> this is not totally false, but I think it's also getting lots of people to Debian aswell
<ajmitch> #debian people might be getting sick of ubunut users coming in with their ubuntu-specific problems
<raphink> funnily enough, it seems some Debian users react even more violently to Ubuntu than to stuff like Linspire or Xandros
<ajmitch> sure
<StevenK> This is the whole reason I'm slowly moving to Ubuntu. A small number of loudmouthed people in Debian are sapping my strength for dealing with crap.
<ajmitch> because ubuntu is far, far more visible
<zakame> probably :(
<ajmitch> StevenK: don't worry, being a MOTU will just sap your will to live ;)
<StevenK> I already lost that.
* StevenK points at Linda.
<ajmitch> haha
<raphink> lol
<zakame> Debian has a special place in my chroots^Wheart :)
<raphink> hehe
<zakame> YAY!!! lucene finally builds!!! \o/
<StevenK> If I could get open-network-stream-internal to work on xemacs, I'd seriously considering installing Ubuntu on my work machine.
<zakame> First success for the Java Growers!
* ajmitch is still fond of debian
<StevenK> Now xemacs, lets see if you ICE on my laptop!
* StevenK dares it.
<ajmitch> throwing down the gauntlet
<ajmitch> hm, it's 12:30 or so
<ajmitch> I have to get up at 5:30
<ajmitch> why am I still awake? :)
<StevenK> ajmitch: Oh, I'm not resigning, or going to stop work on Debian, I'm just going to stop paying attention.,
<StevenK> Unsub from -devel and -project, and slip into a world far less filled with pain.
<StevenK> Real soon now.
<ajmitch> I'm still on -devel
<ajmitch> & I still have packages to maintain there
<zakame> ajmitch: gn8, and good luck! :D
<ajmitch> but I do most of my stuff on ubuntu
<ajmitch> zakame: oh I'll still be up for a little while
<ajmitch> at least long enough to get my package acting nicely ;)
<raphink> :)
<zakame> ajmitch: cool!
<StevenK> And after he uploads masqmail.
* StevenK swishes his eyelashes at ajmitch.
<zakame> StevenK: make masqmail good, I'm using it. :)
<zakame> gives me one less reason to worry about MTAs
<StevenK> zakame: There's way more evilness in debian/rules now. :-)
<siretart> grmble
* raphink wonders if REVU could send comments to maintainers automatically when addeed
<siretart> foo with transcode, which seems to need a newer ffmpeg
<siretart> :/
<ajmitch> siretart can upload masqmail for you :)
<ajmitch> *hint*
<StevenK> ajmitch: Subtle as a sledgehammer to the face, you are. :-)
<ajmitch> oh of course ;)
<StevenK> Oh, that's right.
<StevenK> He's a New Zealander.
<ajmitch> siretart: \sh has my phone number to wake me up in the morning if I'm not around ;)
<StevenK> How silly of me.
<siretart> ajmitch: excellent
<ajmitch> StevenK: one of the ones still in NZ, actually
<siretart> StevenK: where is the masqmail patch?
<StevenK> siretart: LP, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/masqmail/+bug/5580
<Ubugtu`> Malone bug #5580: masqmail: merge new debian version In: masqmail (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5580
<siretart> looks nice, testbuilding
* ajmitch does a test build of treecc
<ajmitch> ah, I forgot postinst/prerm for info magic
* zakame uploads gpsd, crosses fingers
<StevenK> siretart: Way cool.
<siretart> StevenK: builds fine on my amd64, uploading now
<StevenK> siretart: Excellent.
* StevenK wants an amd64. :-/
<ajmitch> StevenK: that was why siretart was a better tester :)
<ajmitch> since the fix is for amd64
<StevenK> ajmitch: Oh, go away. :-)
<ajmitch> hah
<siretart> StevenK: btw, you used your @debian.org email adress, not sure if you are whitelisted already for that adress
<ajmitch> decided on LCA yet?
<StevenK> siretart: I am.
<siretart> ok
<StevenK> siretart: My @u.c address doesn't exist yet.
<siretart> thats strange
<ajmitch> the recent batch of new members don't have their address working yet
<StevenK> VRFY <stevenk@ubuntu.com>
<StevenK> 550 <stevenk@ubuntu.com>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in virtual alias table
<siretart> perhaps you should ask elmo. your launchpad page looks fine
<zakame> er @ubuntu.com alias updating is borked, I filed a bug on it
<StevenK> Oh, where?
* zakame searches
<zakame> malone #5278
<Ubugtu`> Malone bug #5278: Launchpad name -&gt; @ubuntu.com email address broken In: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: James Troup, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5278
<StevenK> ajmitch: Yeah. I'm sucking up to work to see if they'll pay for me to go to Debconf 7
<zakame> bbl gn8!
<siretart> StevenK: ah, so you could perhaps ask someone nicely in #launchpad to add your emailalias..
<raphink>  btw, I discovered yesterday that I'm banned from #launchpad
<raphink> although I've never been there
<raphink> this is not a very nice feeling :s
<azeem> probably your IP range then
<raphink> azeem: who should I ask to fix that?
<azeem> 12:49 [OPN]  -!- 0 - #launchpad: ban *!*@*.fbx.proxad.net [by mpt!n=mpt@200-171-140-32.dsl.telesp.net.br, 71850 secs ago] 
<raphink> azeem: o_O
<raphink> azeem: about 1 million people in France have IPs like that ...
<StevenK> Down to refactoring.
<StevenK> Blah
<StevenK> s/to/due to/
<raphink> especially linux users
<raphink> since fbx.proxad.net IPs are of the only ISP in France that uses and actively supports linux
<raphink> so such a ban means most of the guys in #ubuntu-fr are also banned from #launchpad ;)
<raphink> azeem: any way you can have that removed?
<azeem> raphink: I asked
<raphink> thanks
<StevenK> Indeed, I even so.
<StevenK> BLAH, saw
<StevenK> Whee, xemacs built on my laptop.
<ajmitch> yay
<raphink> ajmitch: yay?
<ajmitch> that xemacs built
<azeem> raphink: try again
<raphink> good
<siretart> StevenK: 8mb debdiff?!
<ajmitch> & that I'm doing yet another build
<StevenK> siretart: Yes.
<siretart> StevenK: how should we be able to review a 8mb debdiff ;)
<ajmitch> siretart: there's a large patch in there just for translations
<ajmitch> lsdiff will show you that the debdiff doesn't touch much
<ajmitch> use filterdiff to look at the rest :)
<siretart> ah. ok
<ajmitch> wee, 1AM
<ajmitch> almost caffiene time
<raphink> thanks azeem
<siretart> fuck.
<siretart> somehow alsa has broken here
<raphink> anyone could review my packages?
<siretart> its revu day today! :)
* siretart looks at revu
<raphink> yes
<raphink> :)
<raphink> I can't advocate though
<raphink> and I reviewed about 15 packages this week ;)
<siretart> wow
<ajmitch> raphink: thanks for reviewing :)
<raphink> some guys I reviewed the packages of (is that english?) worked quite hard on them, so I don't see what comments I can still put on their packages ;)
<siretart> raphink: of course, a big thank you from me too!
<raphink> why, all work as to be done :)
<raphink> hopefully I didn't review them too bad ;)
<siretart> raphink: the tarball from kio-sword was changed from upstream
<siretart> raphink: why?
<siretart> >> md5sum kio-sword_0.1.orig.tar.gz kio_sword-0.1.tar.gz
<siretart> 510b54896151cea16043cc1dc0f2c641  kio-sword_0.1.orig.tar.gz
<siretart> caaeaef9fbb42b4810de73a67e6d0d6c  kio_sword-0.1.tar.gz
<raphink> hmm
<raphink> let me see
<siretart> lunch time here, cu later
<raphink> cya siretart
<raphink> siretart: CVS
<raphink> siretart: I had to remove admin/CVS directory from source
<raphink> that's the only diff
<siretart> doh, it is even mentioned in changelog.. sry
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> ;)
<raphink> np
<raphink> some packages listed with a *heart* have not been properly advocated
<raphink> I don't know how to remove the advocacy
* ajmitch can remove it
<raphink> they were advocated by the maintainer himself
<ajmitch> yes, that must be a revu bug
<StevenK> Whee, they (being #launchpad) answer one question and don't answer the other.
<raphink> ajmitch: waili and xmorph
<ajmitch> siretart: want to look into that?
<raphink> ajmitch: I reported this bug already
<ajmitch> ok
<raphink> it must be bug #9 on REVU development
<Ubugtu`> Malone bug #9: Rosetta's po parser is too strict In: rosetta (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Carlos Perell Marn, Status: Fixed https://launchpad.net/bugs/9
<raphink> if I remembere well ;)
<raphink> not malone Ubugtu` :p
<StevenK> WOOOHOOO
<raphink> http://revu.tauware.de/cgi-bin/trac.cgi/ticket/9
<ajmitch> siretart: hmm, does remove advocate work? :)
<ajmitch> StevenK: success?
<StevenK> My xemacs rebuild fixes the open-network-stream bug.
<raphink> ajmitch: there's also http://revu.tauware.de/cgi-bin/trac.cgi/ticket/11 I reported
<raphink> when there are index.* files in packages
<raphink> they are interpreted by apache
<raphink> so that you can't browse the dir
<raphink> and hvae to get the source and dpkg-source -x them
<raphink> it's not very convenient ;)
* StevenK needs to learn elisp at some point.
<raphink> huhu
* ajmitch checks if treecc's test suite will work properly :)
<dholbach> hey
<dholbach> how's the revu day going? :)
<ajmitch> hey dholbach!
<ajmitch> it's on fire
<ajmitch> actually I haven't done any reviewing
<dholbach> on fire? :)
<ajmitch> I've been writing up stuff
* dholbach already did some small comments
<raphink> :)
<raphink> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hey raphink
* raphink is away taking a shower :)
<dholbach> thanks for your work  on it
<ajmitch> PASS: run_tests
<ajmitch> wonderful
<raphink> :)
* dholbach heads home from the caf
<ajmitch> this package seems to be working, to some extent ;0
* StevenK waits for masqmail to appear on lists.u.c
<dholbach> for me they're fairly slow the last time
<dholbach> all @ubuntu.com stuff :/
<dholbach> what do you think? will we get all packages reviewed this weekend?
* dholbach thinks we'll make it
<raphink> yeah :)
<dholbach> cool :)
<dholbach> will do some reviews in the evening
<dholbach> and tomorrow
* raphink thinks it can be done
<dholbach> bug day next week :)
<dholbach> we have to catch up on the universe bugs ;)
<raphink> ouch
<StevenK> I just fixed one!
<raphink> I have to learn on how to do that
<dholbach> yay! :)
<StevenK> Well, sorta.
* ajmitch just introduces bugs :)
<dholbach> raphink: you'll do just fine
<raphink> :)
<StevenK> I merged a new version and the bug went away.
* raphink knows how to reject bugs :)
<raphink> lol
<dholbach> yeah, there are loads of them already fixed upstream/in debian
<StevenK> Ouch!  Got SIGABRT, dying..
* ajmitch ought to learn this packaging thing
<StevenK> Ah. It's because I Ctrl-C'd dpkg.
* StevenK grins shiftly.
<ajmitch> heh
<StevenK> dpkg doesn't like signals.
<dholbach> tsssss :)
<dholbach> i'll leave this place now
<dholbach> have a nice day
<ajmitch> aw
<ajmitch> bye dholbach
<dholbach> *wave*
* StevenK watches wanderlust get sucked into his machine.
<StevenK> steven@broken:~% TZ=NZ date
<StevenK> Sun Dec 11 01:31:44 NZDT 2005
<StevenK> ajmitch: Dedicated, aren't we? :-)
<ajmitch> s/dedicated/crazy/
<ajmitch> it doesn't feel like it's 1:30
<StevenK> You say potato, I say potatoe
<raphink> should all packages be moved to compat 5 now?
<StevenK> raphink: That's a loaded question. :-)
<ajmitch> all packages?
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> just wondering if I should switch all my packages to compat 5 before they are reviewed
<ajmitch> it's not just a simple matter of changing it & hoping nothing breaks :)
<ajmitch> I wouldn't worry about it yet
<ajmitch> we won't reject based on that ;)
<raphink> ajmitch: how do I know then?
<raphink> ajmitch: riddell had me change a package to compat 5
<ajmitch> do you know what the compat level is?
<raphink> and I changed another one, which builds fine with compat 5
<raphink> ajmitch: well it's the compatibility with debhelper version, no?
<StevenK> Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, wanderlust. How I've missed thee.
<ajmitch> 5 is the 'recommended mode of operation' now..
<raphink> like level five corresponds to debhelper >= 5
<ajmitch> raphink: yes, but have you checked what the changes from 4 to 5 are? :)
<raphink> ajmitch: hmm no
<StevenK> Not bloody much.
<raphink> huhu
<ajmitch> to make sure that you don't blindly break things :)
<ajmitch> StevenK: very little, sure
<raphink> I was just recommended to use 5
<ajmitch> but this is a matter of principle :)
<StevenK> Give Joey a chance to chance to write stuff for compat 5, first. :-)
<raphink> ajmitch: well I check if my packages still build with 5
<ajmitch> I don't like it when people blindly bump numbers without knowing what they are or why
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> ok I'll go take a shower then :p
<raphink> hehe
<StevenK> BUGGER.
<raphink> lol
<ajmitch> I doubt that most MOTUs who change the standards version know what it's there for
<ajmitch> they just look at lintian/linda output :)
<StevenK> Some stupid bastard had unstable in the masqmail changelog file.
<ajmitch> oh dear
<ajmitch> I blame the uploader :)
<raphink> o_O
<StevenK> By all means, do so.
<StevenK> siretart: Come back! All is forgiven.
<retrix> could someone confirm my time conversion ;), motu-school begins in 4 hours and 20 minutes, correct?
<ajmitch> raphink: sadly
<ajmitch> raphink: in that time I have to catch 8 hours sleep
<StevenK> Muahaha
<ajmitch> but I've got enough to cut & paste in the channel whilst asleep ;)
<StevenK> You're writing a bot to teach MOTU-School, aren't you?
<StevenK> AREN'T YOU?
<ajmitch> shh
<StevenK> \sh can't help you now!
<ajmitch> heh
<StevenK> Now I've got you! I caught you fair and square!
<StevenK> Dear me. You can't tell I'm overtired or anything.
* ajmitch feigns his best possum in headlights look
<ajmitch> not at all
<raphink> what's wrong with writing a teach bot?
<raphink> teaching
<raphink> that could be pretty useful
<raphink> put it on #ubuntu-school and let newbie grab answers to their questions as the bot talks
<raphink> s/newbie/newbies
* raphink removes vapor from his glasses as he goes out of the bathroom
<StevenK> siretart: I have uploaded a new debdiff to Malone #5580 that katie will actually accept.
<Ubugtu`> Error: Could not parse XML returned by Malone bugzilla: Connection to Malone bugzilla failed: HTTP Error 404: Not Found
<StevenK> Muahaha
<raphink> lol
<raphink> it's REVU day : Malone is in strike
* StevenK grins.
<raphink> s/in strike/on strike/
<raphink> wb lifeless
<lifeless> silly freenode
<raphink> indeed
<raphink> I get it very often lately
<lifeless> if you are in a channel that requires identification you cannot change your nick
<raphink> loool
<lifeless> if your nick is wrong (say your ip changed), you cannot register
<lifeless> (*cannot change your nick without registering)
<raphink> :s
<lifeless> so -> disconnect and reconnect
<raphink> as we say in french : le mieux est l'ennemi du bien (best is the ennemy of good)
<raphink> to a certain point of course
<lifeless> heh.
<raphink> ;)
<siretart> damn
<raphink> siretart: what,
<siretart> wrong upload target
<lifeless> sweet
<lifeless> opensync builds ;)
<StevenK> siretart: Yes. :-(
* StevenK ponders begging people in #launchpad to "fix" his u.c email
<raphink> should a bug be filed when a package just has to be rebuilt because of a library transition?
<raphink> like : nothing has to be changed in the source, just rebuild the binary package
<crimsun> yes
<crimsun> just note it
<raphink> where?
<raphink> :)
<siretart> ok, kio-sword is ready to go
<crimsun> raphink: either in the description or in a comment
<raphink> siretart: cool :) I've been waiting for this for about 6 months :) I had repackaged it for debian before and never went to the upload
<siretart> oh. what a pitty.. uploading now
<raphink> crimsun: you mean in the package? or on malone?
<crimsun> raphink: malone
<raphink> like I file a bug to malone just saying the package should be rebuilt, right?
<raphink> thanks much siretart :)
<siretart> raphink: kalcul build depends on E: Couldn't find package libeduwidgetclock0-dev
<siretart> any ideas?
<raphink> siretart: look just close to it ;)
<raphink> and review the lib before the app ;)
<siretart> ok
<raphink> as posted as a comment on REVU, the lib goes with ;)
<ajmitch> see you in a few hours, I have to try & get a little bit of sleep now ;)
<raphink> ok have a nice sleep ajmitch
<siretart> ajmitch: go to bed! get some rest, finally! :)
<ajmitch> siretart: I'll get about 3 hours, I think ;)
<StevenK> siretart: Ahh, thanks for the second upload.
* ajmitch disconnects mind
<StevenK> ajmitch: Night
<StevenK> crimsun: And damnit, I wanted to merge wesnoth. :-)
<crimsun> sorry dude, it was just sitting there at the bottom ;)
<\sh> moins
<crimsun> re
<\sh> today is our great motu school day :)
<raphink> hi \sh, bpuccio, jpatrick && lllmanulll
<raphink> yes
<raphink> and REVU day too
<lllmanulll> Hi all
<StevenK> \sh: It may not be great, ajmitch didn't go to bed until 10 minutes ago. :-)
<jpatrick> hello raphink
<raphink> :)
<raphink> StevenK: lol
<\sh> StevenK: i'll call him just before the start....17 UTC begin, means 16 UTC call to NZ from .de
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> that'll be a short night for him
<\sh> it was a short night for me as well
<\sh> but I think ajmitch didn't a lot of guiness just as we did :)
<\sh> drink even
<siretart> huhu \sh
<\sh> hey siretart
<siretart> raphink: i think this libeduwidgetclock0 is fine from a packaging point of view
<raphink> siretart: but?
<\sh> grmpf...we need a fixed xauth
<siretart> raphink: I'm just not that confident with the content itself
<raphink> what do you mean siretart ?
<siretart> raphink: I think this rather belongs into kalcul upstream source itself
<siretart> raphink: do you know why these 2 upstream packages are spearated?
<raphink> siretart: well it's a long story and I can't possibly put it back into kalcul or I'll get killed by upstream ;)
<raphink> lol
<siretart> or same question in another direction: is there any other package which uses this libeduwidgetclock0?
<raphink> anyway this lib is used by another app from KDE-Edu so that they can use it separately too with time
<raphink> since it's available separately now
<raphink> siretart: in my unlearned yet vivid youth, I asked upstream to separate the app from the libs
<siretart> ah I see
<raphink> she did... so now I can't tell her it was not worth it
<raphink> I don't think she would enjoy that much ;)
<raphink> siretart: furthermore, this lib corresponds to http://edu.kde.org/widgets/kclock/
<raphink> which is used in Kverbos according to the page
<siretart> I see
<raphink> so well that means she spent about 3 hours separating the libs from the app because of me
<raphink> and I spent 3 hours understanding how to package it
<raphink> lol
<siretart> hm
<siretart> you know, this clock widget is despite of its somewhat weird name very small
<siretart> if there were other packages, I'd say yes to seperating it
<siretart> and since you say there will be other apps depending on this, okay
<siretart> but I'd like to hear other opinions about this
<raphink> ok
<raphink> I'd be ok to repackage it as part of the main package
<raphink> but it wouldn't be faire for annma
<siretart> yes. thats why I'm so undecided
<zakame> hi all!
<raphink> hehe
<siretart> you know, I'd like to avoid having unecessary packages floating around, which are probably uneccesary.
<raphink> hi zakame
<siretart> huhu zakame
<raphink> :)
<raphink> yes I totally understand that siretart
<zakame> heya raphink and siretart ! what's up?
* zakame checks the buildlogs for gpsd
<raphink> it's REVU day :)
<siretart> zakame: we are currently discussing this one: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1001
<zakame> w00t! can the good MOTUs check my little contribution then? :-)
<zakame> siretart: wow, lucky number
<siretart> I'm very undecided if this warrants a package for its own
<raphink> :s
<raphink> siretart: I think we had discussed that with Riddell before actually
* zakame checks libeduwidgetclock0
<siretart> raphink: oh. and he agrees to that?
<raphink> well I don't remember
<raphink> but I think he said it was ok
<raphink> since kverbos could use it too
<crimsun> I think it's fine the way it is.
<zakame> YAY! another upload successfully built! \o/ :-D
<siretart> zakame: grats! :)
<crimsun> +1 from me for 1001
<raphink> :)
<raphink> thnks crimsun
<freeflying> raphink:  hi
<raphink> hi freeflying
<siretart> hm
<siretart> this libasound2 is really really strange
<crimsun> in what way?
<siretart> perhaps just a local config problem
<siretart> crimsun: I upgraded my 32bit chroot, and sound in quake4 broke
* zakame marks #5590 as fixed, should forward the debdiff to fix the debian ftbfs
<siretart> now I'm trying to find out what happened
<siretart> malone 5590
<Ubugtu`> Malone bug #5590: gpsd: merge new debian version In: gpsd (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: PendingUpload https://launchpad.net/bugs/5590
<siretart> jupp
<crimsun> siretart: chroot running Dapper now?
<siretart> crimsun: host is dapper/amd64 chroot is dapper/i386
<siretart> crimsun: its because the application is 32bit, and needs libasound and libsdl (32bit of course)
<siretart> and in breezy, I managed to get it run with 3d acceleration and sound
<siretart> now either of one is broken :(
<zakame> raphink: is there any reason why debhelper (>> 4.1) ?
<raphink> zakame: you can aswell switch to 5
<raphink> I was told it's better to use >>4.1
<raphink> hehe
<zakame> hm k
<raphink> somtimes I stupidely repeat what I was told :(
<crimsun> well then. it's always nice when alsa-lib ftbfs.
<zakame> raphink: well, it's... light :) is this the way cdbs packages are supposed to be? :D
<raphink> yep zakame
<raphink> some debian/rules get down to 2 lines with cdbs
<zakame> cool!
<raphink> zakame: that's what it's made for ;)
<zakame> raphink: well, I've heard of how terse cdbs can get, but this is the first time I've seen it in action
<raphink> ok
<raphink> :)
<crimsun> doko: ping
<crimsun> doko: nm, sorry
<zakame> hey thierry :)
<crimsun> world exploding in dapper+1? cool.
<zakame> hoohoo
<thierry> zakame : yes?
<zakame> hey == hi :D
<raphink> hi thierry
<thierry> ho ok... I tough you had something special to tell me :) hi!
* raphink scrolls down the list of packages to be reviewed : o_O can all this really be reviewed before sunday evening?
<thierry> anywhere I could get UTC time?
<thierry> LaserJock_ : check malone bug 5399 , I added a .desktop file to geg and just sent a new patch
<Ubugtu`> Malone bug #5399: [PATCH]  adding a .desktop file to geg In: geg (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Reviewers Team, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5399
<zakame> er, `date -u` ?
<zakame> date --utc
<thierry> ho thanks
<zakame> er wait, don't sync eyed3!
<raphink> siretart: how about kalcul and its lib?
<siretart> raphink: I want to talk to riddel before
<raphink> ok
<raphink> siretart: well Riddell advocated it in the end as I can see, and crimsun said he was ok with it too
<raphink> but ok I understand ;)
<raphink> REVU day stalled ? ;)
<crimsun> sorry, I'm in a meeting atm
<SloMoSnail> good morning everybody ;)
<raphink> hi SloMoSnail
<zakame> heya SloMoSnail !!! :D
<zakame> SloMoSnail: got gpsd fixed already, even plugging a debian bug ;)
<slomo> zakame: good work with porting the gpsd patch :)
<thierry> raphink : are you a MOTU ?
<zakame> slomo: thanks to you and to doxygen :D
<raphink> thierry: nope I'm not
<siretart> raphink: I just stumpled over this one: http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/konq-kim-0511230530/konq-kim-0.8.1/debian/TODO
<siretart> raphink: If the package has no correct licence, elmo will reject it. I had this problem with mplayer-skins myself
<slomo> zakame: hehe, doxygen helped me creating the first patch too :) i knew nothing about the dbus api back then
<zakame> slomo: yeah, doxygen rocks indeed :)
<raphink> siretart: all the scripts don't mention the license, but the author said it's all GPL on KDE-Apps so I assumed so and this is what I've put in debian/copyright
<siretart> raphink: please pass upstream this link: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-howto.html
<siretart> raphink: no seriously, I think elmo will reject it. So did he for mplayer-skins
<raphink> upstream is not very active lately
<raphink> you think all scripts should mention GPL namely?
<slomo> siretart: anything still todo for mplayer?
<slomo> siretart: did you find any issues?
<jpatrick> could someone look @ http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1115 ?
<raphink> argh
<raphink> there are too many 403 errors on reviewing package on REVU :(
<slomo> jpatrick: will do :)
<raphink> jpatrick: will too
<slomo> jpatrick: uh, kde package... anyway, i'll take a look :)
<raphink> jpatrick: lintian already is not very happy with your package ;)
<jpatrick> raphink: I see that
<raphink> run lintian -i on it, there's already some stuff to do about it
<slomo> the lintian errors are "ok"
<raphink> remove the CVS dirs in it
<slomo> removing CVS dir would mean changing the tarball... which is in this case more evil than leaving it there ;)
<raphink> jpatrick: new version should be -0ubuntu1
<slomo> and the other two warnings can easily be ignored...
<siretart> argl. will check about the 403
<slomo> yes, -0ubuntu1
<siretart> slomo: I saw that transcode has problems
<siretart> slomo: it seems to need a newer ffmpeg :/
<slomo> siretart: perfect... i hate ffmpeg... what do you think about adding ffmpeg to the transcode tarball, linking it to a libffmpeg-transcode.so and link transcode with it? should be the safest and will solve the 40MB problem too
<raphink> siretart: I had 403 with quite a lot of packages
<raphink> jpatrick: include the short version of the GPL in debian/copyright
<slomo> raphink: this is only a update... look at the debdiff ;) we don't want a too big delta from debian
<siretart> slomo: I don't see if there is a benefit in having a libffmpeg-transcode.so to having a 40mb transcode, but at least there will probably less screeming from the users :/
<raphink> slomo: oh so when merging, we don't want to be as strict as with new packages?
<siretart> raphink: when merging, we optimize for small diffs
<slomo> raphink: no... this is even a merge?
<raphink> hmm
<raphink> hmm no it's an update actually
<siretart> raphink: if you want to improve the package, then document so in debian/changelog and/or send a patch to the debian bts
<raphink> mhm
<siretart> really, because the next merging will be harder else
<slomo> oh, jpatrick please merge first the debian version and then do the update to new upstream version with -0ubuntu1
<raphink> well it's not that I want personaly
<raphink> but so far when reviewing packages on REVU
<siretart> raphink: I know. I don't love that either
<raphink> I haven't focused on the smallness of debdiff when it deals with updates or merges
<jpatrick> slomo: pardon?
<raphink> siretart: if the original debian package was not so clean, I would ask the packager to change things in it
<slomo> siretart: shipping a known-to-work ffmpeg version solves the FTBFS every few days ;) and while we're at shipping it we can easily make a .so file for ffmpeg to get the filesize smaller
<siretart> but we still have an awful lot of packages to merge :( - and we can only make it easier when we try to minimize diversion from debian
<siretart> slomo: lets take this to query
<slomo> siretart: sure
<raphink> siretart: I understand that, but if the goal is to have a very small diff, then why not stick to Debian?
<siretart> raphink: because often the debian package does not work in ubuntu
<slomo> jpatrick: debian has 0.35-2.2, your's is based on 0.35-1ubuntu1... first merge the new debian version (i.e. use the debian version and readd our changes) and then update to 0.39
<siretart> raphink: or we fix bugs in ubuntu
<siretart> raphink: I want to avoid 'unneeded' diversion from debian
<raphink> siretart: so we want to fix the minimum of things in Debian packages so it just works in Ubuntu
<siretart> raphink: we have a lot of diversion because of new upstrea, new builddeps, bugfixing, security. all is fine
<raphink> mhm
<siretart> raphink: please don't understand me wrong: we want of course fix bugs in packages
<raphink> sur
<siretart> raphink: the point I mean is that I have seen a lot of 'minor' improvments in packaging, which just bloat up the debdiff
<siretart> and this is what I want to avoid
<raphink> ok
<raphink> I'll try to remember this
<raphink> not bloating the debdiff with minor details when merging or updating
<raphink> but still be strict on these details with new packages
<raphink> right?
<slomo> yes, exactly :)
<raphink> ok
<siretart> the idea behind this is that DDs are supposed to produce 'good' packages
<raphink> that's a bit frustrating but I'll get use to it ;)
<raphink> mhm
<siretart> in general this is correct, so we stick to them. when reviewing new stuff, we also try to make 'good' packages
<slomo> and it's easier for us to merge new versions later... and it's more probably that we stay compatible to debian ;)
<siretart> so we point newbees to packaging mistakes
<zakame> hm, isn't that's why there was some mention s.time ago about MOTUs undergoing NM?
<raphink> well I've seen Debian packages built on tarball sometimes
<raphink> at least 3 out of something like 5 merges I've seen
<raphink> is that clean?
<siretart> raphink: sorry? what do you mean
<zakame> raphink: you mean debian native pkgs?
<raphink> when the package contains the tarball and debian/rules expands it in the build or configure rule
<raphink> yes
<siretart> zakame: do you really think that the average motu would pass NM, without having packages in debian?
<siretart> zakame: I'm considering applying for NM myself, but I'm not sure if I'm ready yet
<siretart> raphink: ah, this is sometimes a good idea
<zakame> siretart: hm good point. :-) but I actually thought MOTUs were above-average :P
<siretart> zakame: ;)
<siretart> zakame: Frontdesk/DAM decide in the end what average is :/
<zakame> siretart: true... but then again we practically _do_ improve packaging, so I think that's a plus... not to mention crafting tools for MOTU work :)
<siretart> jupp
<jpatrick> slomo && raphink: http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/458417
<jpatrick> never mind found problem
<raphink> ok
<raphink> :)
<zakame> wb highvoltage
<jpatrick> orig.tar.gz has two kxdocker-0.39
<zakame> hm, there's a miss in lpbugs.py, on posting syncs, missing source pkgname :/
<siretart> zakame: patches welcome :)
<zakame> siretart: I'm preparing one now, but I don't have a bzr setup on chi yet (and prolly won't be until it leaves RH land :(
<zakame> I'll just email it then ;)
<siretart> no problem
<siretart> I accept everything ;)
<zakame> woohoo :D
<\sh> zakame: hmm?
<\sh> zakame: when you give the bug number it should get the name of the package from the webpage
<zakame> \sh: no it doesn't, I've been observing it for some time now, it doesn't give the srcpkgname on lpbugs -s
<\sh> zakame: ah...
<\sh> zakame: lpbugs.py -u -s -b <bugno>
<\sh> or the bug report is wrong or not added via lpbugs
<\sh> which is hmm...yeah a bug
<zakame> \sh: yes I do lpbugs.py -u -s -b , even -u -b #### -s
<\sh> and no..it's not a bug, because we don't need the sourcepackage
<zakame> still, its the same
<\sh> zakame: bug no?
<zakame> which is why I didn't call it a bug, just a miss ;)
<\sh> zakame: actually we don't need it :)
<zakame> yeah, really :) just noticed its, well, inconsistent (from my VP) :P
* zakame hides
<raphink> where is there a miss zakame ?
<jpatrick> slomo && raphink : fixes uploaded
<raphink> good jpatrick :)
<zakame> raphink: in lpbugs... but its wishlist really :D
<raphink> zakame: which miss did you find in your package ? miss world ?
<zakame> raphink: I'm rooting for miss .ph, iirc tonight's the pageant ;)
<jpatrick> raphink: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1116
<zakame> would my good colleagues revu http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=929 too? :-)
<siretart> zakame: huh? http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/libmemcache-0511150850/libmemcache0_1.4.0.b9-0ubuntu1_i386.postinst
<siretart> zakame: funny postinst, very defensive ;)
<siretart> zakame: whats this package? manoj's baz common packaging system?
<zakame> siretart: it is ;)
<siretart> zakame: you manage it in arch?
<zakame> I have it at my baz repos
<siretart> zakame: I'm curious, aren't you a DD yourself?
<zakame> siretart: no, but I do plan to ;) it is in arch, using arch-buildpackage
<zakame> gtklp is my debian-maintained package
<zakame> (er, now that seems to sound funny)
<siretart> ah, I see
<siretart> because I read your blog at planet
<zakame> I asked nutmeg to add me there ;) which reminds me, how do I get added to planet ubuntu too? :-)
<siretart> zakame: ask jdub
<siretart> he will happily add you. perhaps email is the best way to catch him
<zakame> siretart: ok, thanks! :D
<siretart> zakame: package looks ok. do you intend to itp and upload it to debian?
<zakame> siretart: yeah, I'll have nutmeg and the folks at -mentor look at it too :)
<zakame> mentors even
<siretart> hm.
<siretart> this build system from manoj doesn't make it easy to be reviewed
<siretart> zakame: http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/libmemcache-0511150850/libmemcache-1.4.0.b9/debian/changelog
<siretart> this stuff at the bottom, is this actually allowed in changelog?
<zakame> siretart: the `meat' of the build is at local.mk
<siretart> obviously yes, but it looks funny
<siretart> zakame: I've noticed, yes
<zakame> siretart: yeah, its just an Emacs local-variables snippet
<zakame> though its redundant... I can remove it
<Mithrandir> siretart: yes, it's allowed, but it shouldn't be there.  It was useful five years ago.
<Mithrandir> less so today.
<zakame> Mithrandir: indeed... removing it now :-)
<Mithrandir> and debian-changelog-mode will ask if you want to remove it when you save the file.
<zakame> Mithrandir: er, it doens't from my end :(
<Mithrandir> zakame: your emacs sucks, then. ;-)
<zakame> Mithrandir: huh, emacs22?
<Mithrandir> I'm using emacs21
<Mithrandir> do you have devscripts-el installed?
<\sh> hmmm
<zakame> yes
<\sh> gnotime build in pbuilder gives me a lot of unmet dep warnings, where as installing the complained package via apt-get install won't give me any warnings or complaints
<zakame> then again I'm using a bfs'd emacs22, following the hacks at emacswiki to run Debian-installed -els
<\sh> very strange
<zakame> I've had this since Sid, so I thought this was default behavior o_O
<greenpenguin13> hey ppl
<zakame> hello greenpenguin13 :)
<\sh> siretart: ping
<thierry> how can I copy a folder and paste it under the an other name in the same folder?
<\sh> siretart: can you grab dappers gnotime source and build it via pbuilder and tell me that i'm worng
<\sh> wrong even
<greenpenguin13> thanks for the help yesterday crimsun
<\sh> ajmitch: WAKE UP !!!
<\sh> grmpf...not answering the phone
<siretart> \sh: where is the source package?
<\sh> siretart: apt-get source gnotime
<\sh> in dapper
<siretart> ah
<siretart> mom
<thierry> \sh : I'm building it with pbuilder...
<thierry> \sh : (trying to help)
<\sh> thierry: check the messages in the beginning ..
<dholbach> hellas
<siretart> ralf'ing it too
<\sh> when it fetches the build-deps
<siretart> huhu dholbach
<thierry> \sh : the beginning of the build?
<lfittl> hi dholbach, thanks for reviewing libcafix and cafix again :)
<dholbach> hi siretart
<dholbach> :)
<dholbach> it's the review day! :)
<thierry> \sh : or the first errors at the end?
<lfittl> hehe :)
<\sh> thierry: the build-dep errors
<\sh> libgnomeui and libgnutls
<siretart> dholbach: I'm reviewing since a few hours, now I'm dizzy ;)
<raphink> :)
<thierry> \sh : k, won't be long I'll let it build completely
<siretart> \sh: wow. quite a lot of builddeps
<raphink> yay for siretart :)
<\sh> siretart: it complains about libgnomeui
<\sh> siretart: it complains about libgnomeui-dev even
<dholbach> i saw it already... quite a lot of action on REVU
<siretart> \sh: no problems in my pbuilder
<dholbach> siretart: we need a bot in here saying "new comments on package <...>" :)
<\sh> hmmm..strange
<zakame> siretart: about ion3, can I drop the deps for libxext-dev and libice-dev? debian source builds perfectly in my pbuilder
<siretart> dholbach: in fact, this is already planned
<thierry> \sh : yeah me too, the dependencies works great
<\sh> siretart: are you using an updated pbuilder or a dapper made pbuilder?
<dholbach> siretart: i thought so
<siretart> \sh: updated pbuilder
<\sh> siretart: weired
<raphink> still quite a lot of stuff to be reviewed though
<thierry> \sh : I'm using a dapper made pbuilder
<\sh> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<\sh>   libgnomeui-dev: Depends: libgnome2-dev (>= 2.6.0) but it is not going to be installed
<\sh>                   Depends: libbonoboui2-dev (>= 2.8.1-2) but it is not going to be installed
<\sh>                   Depends: libgnomevfs2-dev (>= 2.8.4-2) but it is not going to be installed
<thierry> when you build or in the unmet list?
<\sh> thierry: pbuilder build
<thierry> k...
<siretart> zakame: if thats needed to get the package built, I'd say it is a very nicely reviewable debdiff :)
<thierry> \sh : my build just ended succesfully... strange that you get errors... I'll save the output and check it k?
<\sh> thierry: please..because it just jumps over the unmet deps and builds cleanly...but on our buildds it had raised an error
<zakame> siretart: no, debian source doesn't have those deps
<thierry> \sh : any e-mail I can send you the file?
<siretart> zakame: aah, so we need them in ubuntu? thats very well possible
<siretart> zakame: I remember that I had a discussion about this with nobse, the Debian Maintainer of ion3
<zakame> it seems so, rebuilding again...
<thierry> \sh : I'm updating pbuilder to be sure that the build is ok... then retry
<siretart> he tried to make the builddeps to satisfy both, but it was not possible
<\sh> fuck i have the wrong phone number
<\sh> anybody has ajmitch phone number?
<ogra> not the new one
<\sh> home phone number?
<ogra> he lost his mobile when his lappie was stolen
* ogra doesnt have a landline # of ajmitch
<\sh> i know...he gave me his home phone number...but looks like I mixed up some numbers...and suddenly woke up another guy
<ogra> hehe
<\sh> he was not amused
<ogra> waking up the kiwis
<siretart> lol
<ogra> try some other combinations :P
<raphink> lol
<ajmitch> morning ;)
<ajmitch> why would you wake me up so early? ;)
<raphink> ah ajmitch :)
<zakame> siretart: what did nobse think about the added deps? :)
<\sh> ajmitch: it wasn't u on the phone :)
<ajmitch> haha
<siretart> zakame: he doesn't care that much about ubuntu, but iirc it caused problems in debian
<\sh> thierry: sh@sourcecode.de
<siretart> zakame: just add them and ok
<\sh> ajmitch: good morning :(
<\sh> aeh :)
<siretart> morning ajmitch !
<ajmitch> \sh: I was hoping you'd just wake me up if I wasn't there by 1700 UTC
<ajmitch> morning siretart
<\sh> ajmitch: weired, I think i mixed up some numbers
* ajmitch is glad :)
<ogra> ajmitch, nope, he woke up other people to send them to your house ;)
<raphink> lol
<\sh> hmm..could be your neighbour..check the lights :)
<\sh> "what a strange number"
<slomo> hi ajmitch :)
* ajmitch is not ready for this, who else wants to do it for me? ;)
* ogra sadly cant attend, got to rush to the pharmacy ...
<\sh> ajmitch: no ways everything is settled :)
<ajmitch> \sh: I haven't written my script though!
<\sh> and I don't have a replacement..which I should consider for the next time :)
<ogra> bbl
<Kyral> oyah its REVU day
<\sh> ajmitch: hmm...you have 30 mins :)
<ajmitch> I just hope that people don't turn up expecting a packaging howto
<\sh> ajmitch: the channel is full
<Kyral> ajmitch: You think I'm ready for any of my presentations? ;P
<ajmitch> Kyral: what have you been advertising it as? :P
<\sh> ajmitch: improvise :)
<ajmitch> \sh: oh, if my DSL goes down, you get to take over :)
<Kyral> dpkg w/o debhelper? :P
<thierry> \sh : The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<thierry>   libgnomeui-dev: Depends: libgnome2-dev (>= 2.6.0) but it is not going to be installed
<thierry>                   Depends: libbonoboui2-dev (>= 2.8.1-2) but it is not going to be installed
<thierry>                   Depends: libgnomevfs2-dev (>= 2.8.4-2) but it is not going to be installed
<\sh> ajmitch: it won't I have a friend at NZ telekom..they reserved all the bandwidth only to you :)
<thierry> but it builds anyway
<\sh> thierry: same here
<thierry> \sh : good... is it all you wanted to know?
<ajmitch> \sh: all 2 Kbps? ;)
<\sh> thierry: yes
<Kyral> lol
<thierry> \sh : k
<raphink> lol
<\sh> ajmitch: ok...lets do it...we will improve it :)
<zakame> siretart: ok, thanks! :D
<ajmitch> how about I just show them http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/458490 & tell them to do it this way? ;)
<\sh> ajmitch: no way
<zakame> MOTUs: maraming salamat, at magandang gabi! (many thanks, and gn8! ;)
<ajmitch> night zakame
<ajmitch> \sh: aw
<zakame> night ajmitch
<ajmitch> much better than trying to explain http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/458486
<\sh> ajmitch: the latter is the topic :)
<ajmitch> hi jinty
<ajmitch> \sh: yeah, so source is there, you can speak about it
<\sh> ajmitch: no :)
<dholbach> raphink: "don't get sick packaging this library ..." <--- hahaha :)
<raphink> :)
<raphink> dholbach: I suggested packaging the h5n1 version
<raphink> dholbach: thanks for reviewing some of my packages :)
<dholbach> you did awesome work
<dholbach> we should have a mentoring department soon
<raphink> thanks
<raphink> :)
<raphink> dholbach: you mean packaging or reviewing ?
<dholbach> all of it
<raphink> thanks
<raphink> I think there are some comments I shouldn't have left though
<raphink> I learned lately that the priority on merges and updates is the smallness of the debdiff
<raphink> so many of my comments on such cases are too detailed it seems
<dholbach> if you add a comment saying that it was a "headsup" or you talk to those people they will understand
<raphink> will do
<raphink> later ;)
<jinty> hoi ajmitch
<thierry> how can I clean my chroot?
<minghua> good, I am in time for school :-)
<jinty> ajmitch, interested in taking care of that schooltool-live package?
<ajmitch> minghua: you don't need to learn :)
* jinty has been underground for a while
<ajmitch> jinty: oh, I suppose I could add it to the todo list :)
<jinty> ajmitch: I understand todo lists, mine is as long as my arm;)
<raphink> ajmitch: \o/
<jinty> perhaps I send a mail with the details, and you can take your time...
<ajmitch> please
<ajmitch> ajmitch@ubuntu.com
<jinty> thierry: clean what from the chroot?
<slomo> siretart: do you know what's the state of xen 3.0?
<thierry> jinty : like making it like if it was a new chroot... for testing dependecies and stuff like that
<LaserJock> thierry: that is what pbuilder is for
<jinty> LaserJock: indeed;)
<thierry> LaserJock : yes but I want to test dependency for some non-package... I want to package something new and see his dependencies
<jinty> ajmitch: I'll mail after I have a look over the package again.
<LaserJock> thierry: what you will do is create a package and then build the .deb it with pbuilder and see if all the deps are right
<slomo> hunger: ping?
<sistpoty> hi folks
<thierry> LaserJock : ho ok, it's just that https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowToBuildDebianPackagesFromScratch doesn't work the same way
<slomo> hi sistpoty
<thierry> LaserJock : but you're probably right
<sistpoty> hi slomo
<siretart> slomo: sorry, no, ask hunger, he is our xen man!
<siretart> huhu sistpoty
<slomo> siretart: ok, will do :)
<sistpoty> hi siretart
<ajmitch> \sh: you can do the nice introductions ;)
<LaserJock> thierry: what section?
* ajmitch will just sit back in his seat & panic
<sistpoty> good luck ajmitch
<thierry> LaserJock : First steps to test
* ajmitch doesn't need luck
<ajmitch> I need caffiene & a miracle
<sistpoty> hehe
* ajmitch waits for \sh to finish up the intro
<ajmitch> 'mr. andrew mitchell'? don't make it so formal :)
<\sh> heheh
<LaserJock> thierry: that is for testing that the tarballs work, not if the packages work
<thierry> LaserJock : ho ok...
<LaserJock> thierry: you can use the chroot to compile the program from the tarball to make sure it compiles on Ubuntu, etc.
<thierry> LaserJock : that's what I'm doing and I get /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lXext
<LaserJock> thierry: even before you start packaging you should have an idea of what it is going to take to get it to work
<LaserJock> thierry: I guess that means your missing a lib
<thierry> LaserJock : yes but wich one??
<LaserJock> thierry: I did a apt-cache search xext
<Riddell> siretart: you wanted to talk?
<siretart> Riddell: yes
<siretart> Riddell: it is about http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1001
<raphink> hehe
<siretart> Riddell:
<siretart> I'm not 100% sure if it is worth to make a package for this tiny lib
<raphink> Riddell: remember this library that I had asked annma to split from kalcul
<raphink> and is used in kverbos aswell?
<siretart> I'm really undecided if it should not go into the kalcul package
<siretart> Riddell: or perhaps you know another kde package where this widget could be merged with?
<sistpoty> Riddell: quick question bout kdevelop3: s.th. special behind build-dep automaken or can I resolve this to some non-virtual package like "automake1.9 | automaken"?
<siretart> sistpoty: nvidia on dapper/amd64 works very nicely, btw ;)
<sistpoty> siretart: hm... maybe I'll dist-upgrade later this day
<Riddell> siretart: since other programs expect to use that library it needs to be a separate package
<Riddell> sistpoty: why would it need to be changed?
<siretart> Riddell: if you say it is worth to split it, I'm okay with the packaging
<raphink> Riddell: well remember the pb was that so far no other program uses it
<sistpoty> Riddell: because the sbuild won't resolve the virtual package automaken iirc.
<raphink> only kverbos semes to use it internaly, so kverbos could be split eventually
<sistpoty> Riddell: it's in dep-wait because of this
<raphink> siretart: crimsun seemed to be ok with separating it too
<Riddell> raphink: kverbos does
<siretart> raphink: ok. I'm convinced
<Riddell> sistpoty: I'll take a look at it
<raphink> :)
<sistpoty> Riddell: cool, thx
<\sh> sistpoty: it reads the b-deps from right to left, whereas pbuilder reads it from left to right
<siretart> but sbuild is authoritative :/
<sistpoty> \sh: nope, automaken is a virtual package
<sistpoty> \sh: doesn't have to do anything with ordering in this case
<dholbach> bbl
<raphink> cya then dholbach
<\sh> sistpoty: ah so automaken is just not in our archives....
<sistpoty> \sh: it is... or should be. but it's a virtual package coming from automake1.4 | automake1.5 | ..
<sistpoty> \sh: no idea why there is automake and automaken though
* raphink discovered unsermake yesterday
<siretart> unsermake?!
<\sh> which is a pain in da arse....
<raphink> hehe
<\sh> raphink: try to use it with cdbs :)
<sistpoty> meinmake, deinmake... unsermake *g*
<sistpoty> sorry for the weird german joke
<raphink> sistpoty: yeah I thought so too ;)
<raphink> lol
<raphink> they could have made it english at least
<raphink> ourmake
<raphink> :)
<sistpoty> hehe
* siretart prefers gnumake
* raphink prefers hismake
<raphink> I like mymake
<raphink> :)
<raphink> sistpoty: unsermake talks very few and uses colors in output. Something for geNToo fans ;)
<raphink> hehe
<sistpoty> oh... so unsermake -v == colormake? *g*
<raphink> lol
<raphink> maybe
<raphink> well no I doubt so
<raphink> because unsermake is a Makefile generator, like automake
<raphink> but very silent and with colors
<raphink> so it's not like a traditional make with colors
<siretart> colors, omg
<sistpoty> ah
<raphink> siretart: lol
* raphink loves his colored bash prompt :)
* siretart has a very colored zsh prompt
<raphink> http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/458559 <--- raphink's bash prompt
<siretart> and I find colormake useful from time to time
<sistpoty> is today revu day?
<siretart> sistpoty: yes
<minghua> siretart, that's because your nick is so longer than \sh's :-)
<jpatrick> think so
<Kyral> Yea! EasyChem should get in
<siretart> minghua: use <tab> expansion ;)
<Kyral> my first package in the repos
<Kyral> I hope :D
<LaserJock> Kyral: did you get another vote?
<Kyral> LaserJock: I hope to during this REVU day lol
<LaserJock> Kyral: I'm just finishing the new plotdrop release. It should get in too, I hope ;-)
* sistpoty just started to working from top to bottom
<LaserJock> bummer, I'll be at the bottom
<Kyral> Ditto lol
<sistpoty> it's sorted by upload date
<Kyral> oh sistpoty mind purging dcbu and fortune-mod-futurama
<Kyral> Man that rules file is nothing like I have seen before
<raphink> siretart: http://raphink.myftp.org/konsole_prompt.jpg
<sistpoty> Kyral: purging as in nuke?
<Kyral> makes me realize how much work Debhelper does for us
<Kyral> sistpoty: yah
<sistpoty> Kyral: why?
<sistpoty> if I nuke it, it's lost forever
<Kyral> sistpoty: well, dcbu was a pet project for school that in its current state isn't more than a glorified shell script. As ajmitch once said, it doesn't pass the "trivial operation" tes
<Kyral> sistpoty: I have the full source on my HD :P
<Kyral> and fortune-mod-futurama is questionable license
<Kyral> sistpoty: I'll resubmit dcbu after I rewrite it in python and make it do a shitload more :D
<sistpoty> Kyral: have you talked with petermcv about that yet?
<Kyral> sistpoty: I am petermcv
<sistpoty> ah, k... maybe you should have made this clear ;)
* Kyral points to his LP address and Wiki email addy ;P
<sistpoty> hehe
<sistpoty> ok, will nuke in a second... (will take some time, as I need to nuke every upload)
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> Yah...I wonder why my @ubuntu.com isn't working yet...
<raphink> :(
<LaserJock> Kyral: I still don't have comitt access to the doc-team svn repo either
<sistpoty> I just thought that I saw some adress with kyral in it on revu... but I guess I'm wrong ;)
<LaserJock> Kyral: I think elmo has to do it and he is always very busy
<Kyral> sistpoty: I have uploaded all my packages with "petermcv@clarkson.edu"
<sistpoty> Kyral: yep... brain fault ;)
<Kyral> more like your mind got a SIGSEV
<Kyral> ;P
<sistpoty> hehe
<Kyral> or was directed to /dev/null
<Kyral> You'd think elmo would have a script running like every week or so to checkover the UbuntuMembers team on LP
<sistpoty> Kyral: after some hard work of clicking, dcbu and fortune-mod-futurame are gone :)
<Kyral> heheh
<Kyral> DCBU might reeappear sometime soon, though I'm thinking of turning it into a mass-deployment util
<slomo> Kyral: the @ubuntu.com mail forwards are handled by a cronjob afaik
<slomo> Kyral: hourly iirc
<Kyral> hmm...
<Kyral> I changed my LP ID about 4 days ago lol
<Kyral> it should be "kyral@ubuntu.com" right?
<slomo> when your LP id is kyral... yes
<slomo> the mail is forwarded to your contact address in LP
<Kyral> which one lol
<Kyral> https://launchpad.net/people/kyral
* Kyral wonders if he is making some sort of stupid type lol
<raphink> just wondering
<raphink> from the work I do now, is there any group on launchpad I can join ?
<Kyral> still bouncing
<Kyral> user unknown in virtual alias table
<LaserJock> Kyral: me too
* Kyral shrugs
<Kyral> not that big of a deal
<Kyral> if its not around by the next CC Meeting I'll ping elmo
<raphink> hehe
<LaserJock> yeah, I'm more concerned about my doc-team svn access, but that's not a big deal either I guess
<raphink> siretart: while you've advocated the lib, did you have a look at the app itself (kalcul)
<raphink> ?
<siretart> raphink: will to in  a sec
<raphink> thnks :)
<siretart> raphink: I think I'll upload the lib and look at kalcul when it is in the archive
<siretart> so I can better test it
<raphink> hmm ok
<raphink> siretart: I uploaded the lib to my repo to test it
<raphink> and added my repo to my pbuilder ;)
<siretart> well, it won't build on the autobuilders anyway
<raphink> true
<raphink> not if the lib is not available yet
<Riddell> where can people request packages for MOTU?
<minghua> Riddell, RFP or RFS?
<minghua> I think RFS goes to REVU or motu-reviewers depending on the status of the package
<sistpoty> Riddell: RFPs currently go to wiki:UniverseCandidates
<sistpoty> Riddell: but we are discussing to get rid of this page and use LP support tickets instead, but that's not yet decided
<Riddell> thanks
<LaserJock> \sh: maybe we should have a wiki with motu-school session requests/volunteers
<\sh> LaserJock: we will have something....
* \sh has to do some real life stuff..bbl
<ajmitch> ok, I guess that wasn't too bad
<ajmitch> I almost managed to pull off the illusion of being prepared
<LaserJock> it was fine
<bmonty> looked good to me
<slomo> ajmitch: it was perfect imho :)
<ajmitch> getting up just aftre 5am isn't good for me though
<slomo> hm, get back to bed for some hours :)
<ajmitch> not yet
<ajmitch> maybe about noon
<ajmitch> hopefully not too many people are confused ;)
<LaserJock> well, I certainly don't think they are any worse off, should be much less confused
<LaserJock> azeem: ping?
* sistpoty will update merge-list-status once again
<sistpoty> update done... waiting for backtraces ;)
<crimsun> it still lists xmoto, which I merged earlier in the week
<crimsun> same for vtk
<sistpoty> crimsun: I will take a look
<crimsun> thanks
<crimsun> (and vlc)
<crimsun> vlc's not merge-list-status's fault, though. That's MoM's.
<sistpoty> crimsun: xmoto is newer in unstable
<sistpoty> crimsun: vtk removed
<sistpoty> (from list)
<sistpoty> vlc removed as well
<crimsun> that's impossible
<crimsun> I merged on Dec 9th
<sistpoty> crimsun: seems like vtk upload didn't hit dapper archives yet
<sistpoty> s/vtk/xmoto/
<sistpoty> hrmpf... or I did s.th. wrong :/
<crimsun> it has on i386
<Hieronymus> What is the best way of making diffs for patches?
<crimsun> Hieronymus: debdiff(1)
<crimsun> Hieronymus: unless you meant actually making diffs?
<sistpoty> crimsun: args... thanks for noting... seems like the update script didn't get update the sources from dapper/unstable :(
<crimsun> sistpoty: kk, thank _you_ :)
<sistpoty> ok, merge list will be offline for a few seconds... will put back db-dump from 5 mins ago
<Hieronymus> crimsun: How can I make a diff that's usefull for MOTU
<sistpoty> wohoo... I did all merges just with one sql-query :)
<crimsun> :)
<crimsun> Hieronymus: did you update something?
<ajmitch> sistpoty: sorry, was my script broken?
<sistpoty> ajmitch: not quite sure yet... these packages where on the list even before I updated it *wonder*
<crimsun> Hieronymus: if so, read http://netz.smurf.noris.de/logs/freenode/2005/12/09/%23ubuntu-motu-school.log
<Hieronymus> crimsun: basically, I want to fix a .desktop file
<crimsun> Hieronymus: have you made the necessary adjustments to the .desktop file?
<LaserJock> Hieronymus: do you happen to run dapper or have a dapper chroot?
<sistpoty> for xmoto: there was s.th. strange with LPs bug mail: "Sourcepackagename: None => xmoto", maybe because of this, status didn't get updated
<ajmitch> sigh, I can't play any openGL games
<ajmitch> how annoying
* ajmitch doesn't want to have to downgrade or reboot
<LaserJock> what your playing games?
<sistpoty> for vtk: seems like I got only the new->fixed mail, but not the mail for new
<ajmitch> LaserJock: why not?
<Hieronymus> crimsun: not yet, but that's only two minutes of work
<sistpoty> so vtk wasn't listed as accepted as well
<Hieronymus> LaserJock: no, but I downloaded the dapper source package
<LaserJock> ajmitch: you need to get some sleep. athough after your teaching session, some gaming would probably be good relaxation
<sistpoty> for vlc I didn't get one mail from LP :(
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I have to go out in about 30 minutes
* ajmitch sings in the cathedral choir on sunday mornings ;)
<LaserJock> Hieronymus: I was looking at malone bug #5632
<Ubugtu`> Malone bug #5632: Ghemical won't start up (breezy amd64) In: ghemical (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Science, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5632
<Kyral> wheee REVU day lol
<LaserJock> ajmitch: cool, still Saturday here though
<Hieronymus> LaserJock: that's my bug. 5.10/breezy I'm running
<Hieronymus> LaserJock: the first line states "Ghemical won't start up. AMD64 5.10/breezy."
<sistpoty> ok, I'll retry to update the list, let's just see if one of these packages will populate the list again :)
<LaserJock> Hieronymus: right, I don't have access to a AMD64 but it would be good to know if the bug is still there in dapper
<LaserJock> Hieronymus: it wouldn't get changed in breezy, only dapper
<Hieronymus> LaserJock: if you tell me how to resize my Home directory, that can be arranged
<Hieronymus> *home partition
<LaserJock> Hieronymus: you could do a chroot, how much space do you have?
<Hieronymus> plenty
<minghua> Hieronymus, if you don't run dapper yourself, I think you can just paste the diff between old .desktop file and the new one as a bug to launchpad
<Hieronymus> minghua: but I downloaded the dapper source package, so that's not a problem
<sistpoty> ajmitch: your script seems fine... nothing bad happened :)
<Hieronymus> minghua: as in change sources.list, apt-get source ghemical, change sources.list back
<LaserJock> Hieronymus: plenty of space just in /home or in / too?
<LaserJock> Hieronymus: it would help to get a chroot for that kinda thing
<LaserJock> Hieronymus: is the .desktop file for ghemical too?
<slomo> huh... funny... the "overlay color" for xv seems to be black here... my xterm shows a video in the background =)
<Hieronymus> Hieronymus: only in /home. What do you mean "is the .desktop file for ghemical too?"
<LaserJock> Hieronymus: is the .desktop file you changed for ghemical?
<Hieronymus> slomo: you mean you run a video, then open terminal and see the video, but frozen? I've seen that before :)
<Hieronymus> LaserJock: yes, for ghemical, but I haven't changed it yet
<slomo> Hieronymus: no... not frozen :P it's frozen in xchat but not in the terminal
<Hieronymus> in gnome-terminal it's frozen..
<minghua> Hieronymus: cool.  then I assume you know how to make a new ubuntu version (-XubuntuY) with the changed .desktop file
<Hieronymus> minghua: yeah
<minghua> Hieronymus: then to make a diff useful for MOTU, use debdiff(1), as in: debdiff ghemical_a.b.c-X.dsc ghemical_a.b.c-XubuntuY.dsc
<minghua> Hieronymus: check the generated debdiff, and if it's good, post it to the bug
<LaserJock> Hieronymus: do you think you can go through https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot?
<Hieronymus> LaserJock: I did that before IIRC, so yes
<LaserJock> you could make a symbolic link from somewhere in /home to /var/chroot or do it directly in /home
<jpatrick> wb raphink
<raphink> thanks jpatrick
<raphink> I'm getting crazy with my modem lately
<raphink> :(
<ajmitch> sistpoty: can you handle the keyring request? I've got to head out now
<sistpoty> ajmitch: keyring request? mail? didn't get one yet, but I can do
<ajmitch> yeah I just got a mail
<siretart> re
<siretart> ajmitch: I added you to admin@ and keyring@tiber.tauware.de
<siretart> ajmitch: I hope you don't object
<ajmitch> siretart: certainly not :)
<ajmitch> wb \sh
<sistpoty> ajmitch: ok, once the mail is here I'll care for it
<sistpoty> or siretart?
<\sh> re
<\sh> sistpoty: ping
<ajmitch> \sh: are you going to do a writeup of the session today
<sistpoty> \sh: pong
<ajmitch> or shall I do it later?
<\sh> sistpoty: hmm...what about the already fixed c++ stuff without a merge link?
<\sh> ajmitch: lets do it together :)
<\sh> ajmitch: later :)
<siretart> sistpoty: He didn't upload it to the keyring, I'm answering him
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> bbl
<\sh> (not today anymore)
<sistpoty> cya ajmitch
<\sh> ajmitch: cu and thx a lot :)
<sistpoty> \sh: I'm not quite sure about that yet... either these are there because there are new debian versions, or because they haven't been done in ubuntu yet
<sistpoty> \sh: problem is, that there is no automatic way of telling :(
<\sh> atlas-cpp  last: sh@sourcecode.de  -  YES
<\sh> but no merge report
<sistpoty> \sh: ah, ok... there *is* an automatic way of updating the list :)
<\sh> if there is a new debian version and we touched it..there should be a merge report :)
<sistpoty> \sh: atlas-cpp should have a newer debian-version, if everything is right
<\sh> hmmm...
<\sh> the merge report is missing :)
<sistpoty> \sh: some very deep we logic behind this... /me is fixing this ;)
<\sh> hehe
<\sh> yes tell me, that i'm lazy :)P
<sistpoty> \sh: atlas, beast, clanlib, exiv2, gengameng, gtkmm2.0 and jaberoo should be the only packages... all done by you ;)
<sistpoty> s/atlas/atlas-cpp
<\sh> sistpoty: yeah......work
<\sh> sistpoty: and please check this :) plptools
<sistpoty> \sh: look again at the list
<sistpoty> \sh: will check
<\sh> forget plptools
<sistpoty> ok
<\sh> it's right :)
<\sh> hell
<\sh> -EPACKAGINGCRAP
<\sh> make[3] : Nothing to be done for `all'.
<\sh> make[3] : Leaving directory `/tmp/buildd/arkrpg-0.1.4b/Dist'
<\sh> Making all in debian
<\sh> make[3] : Entering directory `/tmp/buildd/arkrpg-0.1.4b/debian'
<\sh> make[3] : *** No rule to make target `all'.  Stop.
<\sh> make[3] : Leaving directory `/tmp/buildd/arkrpg-0.1.4b/debian'
<LaserJock> sure seems like there are a lot of packages in Accepted
<\sh> what the fck..
<\sh> why is debian/Makefile in configure.in ?
<slomo> \sh: i had some other packages with the same disease ;)
<slomo> \sh: mail upstream to remove it or repackage
<\sh> well...debian upstream patched it away...but didn't tell cdbs to recreate automaken
<sistpoty> dear tiber admins, I just sent you a mail how you can update the merge-list if new logs from MoM arrive... thus hopefully eliminating the bottleneck/single point of failure: /me :)
<\sh> sistpoty: hehe
* sistpoty hopes that noone will follow my first suggestion, if s.th. went wrong
<\sh> lean back and pretend?
<sistpoty> yep ;)
<\sh> hrhr
<sistpoty> maybe I should have added: logout from tiber asap
<\sh> thats why i have cdbs
<\sh> don't trust the documentation
<crimsun> slomo: uploaded banshee w/ fixed .desktop
* Kyral yawns
<Kyral> how goes REVU day?
<slomo> crimsun: thanks... but i wonder why it works for me now already :/
<crimsun> slomo: no idea, but 3 doesn't work here :/
<slomo> crimsun: hmm, 0.9.13 didn't work for me but all following did... weird... but i already saw other .desktop files which just used a name without filetype-suffix... gedit for example
<slomo> this was what i thought was the mistake first... so no idea
<crimsun> it _should_ work without a suffix :/
<crimsun> I even logged out and back in
<crimsun> if it suddenly works, I'll let you know so you can rip out the diff from 4
<sistpoty> need to do some evil work... cya later
<slomo> crimsun: maybe the directories where the icons are installed to are wrong? but they seemed to be fine to me...
<slomo> oh, katie also noticed me about your upload :)
<Hieronymus> LaserJock: woohoo! :)
<LaserJock> Hieronymus: get a chroot?
<Hieronymus> no, I'm finally figured the whole "how to make a nice debdiff" stuff out
<LaserJock> oh, ok
<LaserJock> that's good too ;-)
<Hieronymus> malone #5643
<Ubugtu`> Malone bug #5643: [patch]  Ghemical .desktop file is crap (absolute path, missing stuff, invalid stuff) In: ghemical (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5643
<LaserJock> Hieronymus: well, you might not want to say "crap"
<slomo> crimsun: do you know a bit about the legal state of some libs in main? which are we allowed to ship on cd and which not? libmad for example can't be shipped on cds... but what about the other multimedia related ones?
<Hieronymus> malone #5643
<Ubugtu`> Malone bug #5643: [patch]  Ghemical .desktop file is not so good (absolute path, missing stuff, invalid stuff) In: ghemical (Ubuntu), Severity: Minor, Assigned to: MOTU Science, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5643
<Hieronymus> LaserJock: better?
<LaserJock> hmm, you've got a lot of stuff in categories
<LaserJock> ok, I gotta go for a bit, Hieronymus I would really be interested in seeing if you can repeat your other ghemical bug in dapper
<Hieronymus> LaserJock: okay
<Hieronymus> LaserJock: yes, but the categories are all correct, I'm sure
<Hieronymus> well, pretty sure :-)
<LaserJock_> Hieronymus: correct but should they all be there. maybe you don't need so many
<LaserJock_> Hieronymus: if you put to many then the icon will be in a lot of different menus. For instance, if we get a Science menu then it would be in Graphics and Science
<Hieronymus> well, you don't _need_ to tell people it's a GTK app, but that's what the category is for..
<azeem> LaserJock_: pong
<Hieronymus> azeem: he said he's away
<Hieronymus> 22:18 < LaserJock> ok, I gotta go for a bit, Hieronymus I would really be interested in seeing if you can repeat your other ghemical bug in dapper
<\sh> phew
<\sh> cdrdao merge
<raphink> how is the REVU day going?
<raphink> I didn't see many changes lately
<\sh> ajmitch: ping
<\sh> why did you renmaed libclan2c2-vorbis to libclan2c2a-vorbis?
<raphink> o_O
<\sh> ajmitch: i'm just asking because -vorbis wasn't on the list of doko
<raphink> ah :)
<raphink> anyone still reviewing around?
<\sh> i'm on the merge run
<JohnnyMast> im packaging new stuff
<\sh> will do some reviewing tomorrow...
<raphink> ok
<slomo> and i'm working on xine ;) reviewing will come later, probably tomorrow
<raphink> just that I thought this was a REVU day ;)
<raphink> more reviews have been done today than on usual dayzs
<raphink> but I doubt we get to review all packages before tomorrow evening at that speed ;)
<slomo> yes, there are definitly too many packages to review... we need more reviewers ;)
<raphink> slomo: I can review but I cannot advocate ;)
<raphink> so once I've given my opinion, even if it's fine to me I can't do much more ;)
<JohnnyMast> what is advocate ?
<raphink> hmm
<raphink> advocate is when you say you're happy with a package entering universe
<raphink> MOTUs can advocate packages
<raphink> when a package has been advocated twice
<raphink> then it's uploaded to universe
<raphink> (and get's a heart instead of a hammer in REVU)
<JohnnyMast> aah yeah that pings on some light here
<raphink> ;)
<JohnnyMast> like as on debian
<JohnnyMast> with sponsors and the mailing list
<slomo> raphink: become a MOTU :) you're doing everything fine so far :) and we definitly need more kde people
<raphink> hmm kind of
<Hieronymus> raphink: so what is the lightbulb?
<raphink> slomo: I applied for membership last week and was not accepted
<Hieronymus> oh wait, I see
<raphink> not been around long enough
<raphink> and to be a MOTU I need to be member first
<raphink> ;)
<raphink> I was told to come back in 4 weeks
<JohnnyMast> raphink your no a ubuntu member yet ?
<raphink> I totally understand they want to be sure I'm still around in 4 weeks
<raphink> nope JohnnyMast
<raphink> ;)
<JohnnyMast> same here
<slomo> raphink: well, if you continue like now it will be a safe run imho :)
<JohnnyMast> some ppl like i was when i met ubuntu are to driven and only focus on that
<raphink> sure slomo but that means I can't help much so far with reviewing
<raphink> apart from telling what is wrong ;)
<raphink> but that's fine
<raphink> in the meanwhile I'm learning much about the right way to package and review 
<slomo> that's already helpful because after you pointed out some issues the packager can get his package better and maybe we have to look only once at it and say that it's ok instead of looking at one package millions of times until every issue is solved :)
<slomo> hehe
<raphink> ;)
<raphink> yeah well
<raphink> I don't think I would do it if I felt it was not useful ;)
<siretart> raphink: and another important point: you watch us doing mistakes and notify us about this ;)
<raphink> siretart: hehe if I can do that without feeling I lack respect to more experienced users ;)
<siretart> raphink: I noticed that we discussed several processes wrt our MOTU buissnes. that great, because it helps everyone to reflect what we are doing here
<siretart> raphink: absolutly not!
<raphink> well depends with whom siretart ;)
<raphink> I try to be careful, as in the past I had funny experiences
<raphink> with people not liking to be criticized on their work
<\sh> who?
<raphink> so I prefer to know people well enough before criticizing their work
<slomo> raphink: whenever you think someone did something wrong tell it :) nobody is perfect
<raphink> \sh: oh not anyone you might know. Don't even have a name in mind, but it just happened, in other times, other places :)
<slomo> raphink: and even if you're wrong you learn something
<raphink> sure
<raphink> :)
<raphink> one can learn something everyday :)
<\sh> raphink: yeah..I know what you mean...
<\sh> happens to me every time :)
<raphink> I try to keep aware that my personality is sometimes a bit ... heavy in groups
<raphink> I can easily get somewhere and take a lot of room all of a sudden and some people don't like that
<raphink> which I perfectly understand
<raphink> but anyway
<raphink> I feel I should work on bugs and merges too
<raphink> to make it a more complete education ;)
<slomo> raphink: yes, get some merges while there're still some :)
<raphink> hahaha
<raphink> you mean there's few ? that was not my impression so far
<Kyral> too much work.....damnit lol
<\sh> 166 left
<raphink> hehe
<\sh> and I'm running over them :)
<raphink> 166 merges ?
<\sh> yeah
<\sh> or new allocator transitions
<raphink> I'm not sure I exactly know what has to be done with merges
<\sh> this is not much...we started with more then how many? 5 or 600
<raphink> I have to look at the wiki
<JohnnyMast> what does the alias inetd point to again ?
<Seveas> If I develop something and intend to release it only in Ubuntu, but it's not Ubuntu specific - should it be a native package or not?
<JohnnyMast> found it
<JohnnyMast> np
<siretart> shawarma: we started with 630, iirc
<\sh> Seveas: no
<siretart> \sh: we started with 630, iirc
<Seveas> \sh, thanks
<\sh> anyone has a cluebat for me..and a man page to po4a and why our version doesn't understand groff_code?
<siretart> Seveas: there are only some rare occasions for native packages. if in doubt, make it non native
<\sh> argl...it needs dappers version
<raphink> there's a package that uses autotools.mk . Build-Depends should contain autotools in this case, shouldn't it?
<Kyral> How do I list all the files in a package?
<raphink> dpkg -L
<slomo> autotools.mk? sounds like cdbs
<raphink> yes it is
<slomo> Kyral: or when you only have the .deb and don't want to install it use less
<raphink> but I mean
<raphink> if cdbs uses autotools
<raphink> then autotools is a build dependency
<raphink> seems obvious
<slomo> the autotools thing is only to call configure etc... (in most cases)
<slomo> so auto{make,conf} isn't needed as b-d
<raphink> hmm ok
<slomo> it's only needed when you regenerate the auto{make,conf}-generated files while building
<raphink> hmmm
<raphink> well but I mean
<raphink> this guy calls the autotools.mk cdbs script in his debian/rules
<raphink> and I'm wondering if that requires the autotools package as build dep
<\sh> raphink: normally not
<raphink> ok
<\sh> raphink: cdbs will adjust the build-deps automagically
<raphink> :)
<slomo> only when he regenerates configure and the Makefile.in (i.e. calls autoreconf/automake/etc or the cdbs variable which must be set for that)
<\sh> raphink: but sometimes cdbs is braindead and doesn't do what it should
<slomo> \sh: it will not (normally)... only when you use the evil control file managment
<\sh> slomo: yeah
<\sh> slomo: it cost me again 1 hour of my life today
<raphink> :s
<raphink> maybe I could just try to build this package in a pbuilder and that would answer my question ;)
<raphink> if autotools is needed I'll see it
<slomo> \sh: what? cdbs?
<raphink> control file management I guess
<\sh> slomo: yes and debian upstream and real upstream
<raphink> ;)
<raphink> @cdbs@
<Ubugtu> I don't have a clue, raphink.
<raphink> I don't think I bugged you Ubugtu ;)
<slomo> \sh: hm, feel free to assign the bug to me... i've fighted enough with autotools and cdbs now ;)
<\sh> raphink: it was commented in..and didn't use control.in management anymore, but debian upstream made some patches towards broken real upstream and forget one build target
<slomo> what does Ubugtu do when you write @bla@?
<\sh> slomo: i fixed it ...
<raphink> @hello@
<Ubugtu> Bugger all, I dunno.
<raphink> @with just one?
<Ubugtu> Bugger all, I dunno!
<raphink> sure, doen't require the second @ ;)
<slomo> hmm
<slomo> @1234@
<Ubugtu> I don't have a clue, slomo.
<slomo> @who are you?
<slomo> ;)
<Ubugtu> Wish I knew, slomo.
<\sh> @stfu@
<Ubugtu> Wish I knew, \sh.
<slomo> hmm
<\sh> hehe
<raphink> @speak
<Ubugtu> Bugger all, I dunno.
<raphink> @dance
<Ubugtu> o/-< o\-< o/-< o\-< o/-< o\-<
<raphink> hey :)
<raphink> Ubugtu: you don't dance so well though ;)
<Ubugtu> No idea.
<raphink> @help
<Ubugtu> (help [<plugin>]  [<command>] ) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.
<raphink> @help dance
<Ubugtu> Error: There is no command dance.
<raphink> pff
<\sh> hmmmm
<\sh> what is now the right version number of drpython?
<\sh> 161-2
<\sh> or 3.10.13-3
<\sh> slomo: any clue? u made the last merge :)
<slomo> no idea... assign it to me and i'll take a look later
<slomo> it's already too long ago
<\sh> na...it's strange..they have to different versionings in the changelog
<\sh> ok..I
<\sh> 'll stick with upstream
<\sh> in 161-2 all your patches send upstream were applied :) congrats
#ubuntu-motu 2005-12-16
<slomo> no surprise... doko is debian maintainer iirc :)
<\sh> na
<\sh> cedric delfosse
<slomo> oh ok... spe was the one i thought of
<JohnnyMast> python 2.4 is std on dapper ?
<JohnnyMast> or 2.3
<\sh> 2.4
<JohnnyMast> ty
<JohnnyMast> then ile change the deps to python (>=2.4.0)
<slomo> not needed normally
<JohnnyMast> well
<JohnnyMast> i was learned to give as much info as you can
<slomo> the depends (build-depends) are only restricted in versions when you _need_ at least this version or only a version below one specific one
<slomo> if the package can run with python 2.3 and 2.4 but we have 2.4 as default it can be left unversioned
<JohnnyMast> well im not sure if this package works with older versions of python
<slomo> you have it from debian?
<JohnnyMast> no
<JohnnyMast> its new
<JohnnyMast> a candidate
<slomo> oh ok... hmm, assume that it will work with 2.3 :)
<slomo> and consider using dh_python
<JohnnyMast> else i could leave the deps
<JohnnyMast> dh_python ? i dont know it
<slomo> upstream already had a debian directory?
<JohnnyMast> no
<JohnnyMast> i just created one
<JohnnyMast> its just setup.py
<JohnnyMast> and some image files
<slomo> dh_python keeps care that your depends (not build-depends) on python are right
<JohnnyMast> so rules interfaces to setup.py now
<JohnnyMast> like i learned from pymacs
<slomo> and it precompiles stuff in site-packages in postinst
<JohnnyMast> do you know a package that uses it ?
<JohnnyMast> so i can apt-get source?
<slomo> hmm, when you have a setup.py the cdbs python classes are almost always perfect
<slomo> and they will use dh_python
<slomo> paramiko iirc... but almost all python packages should use it
<JohnnyMast> ile see in pymacs if they use it
<JohnnyMast> rave@ubuntu:/tmp/pymacs-0.22/debian$ fgrep hd_python *
<JohnnyMast> rave@ubuntu:/tmp/pymacs-0.22/debian$
<JohnnyMast> nothing
<JohnnyMast> oops you sayed dh_python
<slomo> dh_python
<slomo> :P
<JohnnyMast> my bad
<JohnnyMast> same
<JohnnyMast> soo paramiko has it ?
<slomo> iirc
<JohnnyMast> kk
<slomo> (or was it just cdbs?)
<JohnnyMast> what the
<JohnnyMast> no match found
<JohnnyMast> (dapper)
<JohnnyMast> also not in cdbs
<slomo> yes, paramiko was cdbs... hmm...
<slomo> \sh: please name one package that uses dh_python but no cdbs :)
<\sh> umpf
<JohnnyMast> i know all the deps already
<\sh> hmmm....
<slomo> JohnnyMast: it keeps care of the right deps on python itself
<JohnnyMast> pygtk and python > 2.3 and python-dev
<JohnnyMast> smart :)
<\sh> drpython
<\sh> slomo: drpython
<JohnnyMast> ty
<JohnnyMast> not found on dapper
<JohnnyMast> im missing a source resp i think
<\sh> should be found...I just merged it
<JohnnyMast> not the souce package
<\sh> and requested a sync :)
<JohnnyMast> let me do an update
<JohnnyMast> not even after apt-get update
<\sh> what reps do u have? universe and multiverse enabled?
<JohnnyMast> i dont think so on flight-1
<JohnnyMast> could you paste me the resps ?
<\sh> deb-src http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu dapper main restricted universe multiverse
<JohnnyMast> added
<JohnnyMast> w00t :)
<JohnnyMast> ty
<JohnnyMast> brb im gonna play cod2 on veteran level
<\sh> cod2?
<slomo> call of duty?
<\sh> no clue about those games
<\sh> * Moved GCC 4 patch into debian/patches/01_gcc4.patch, based on
<\sh>     patch from Stephan Hermann and Ubuntu.  Updated rules to use it.
<\sh> wow
<\sh> even my patches were used :)
<slomo> dito... i only remember that my brother told me something about call of duty some days ago ;)
<slomo> hehe
<slomo> when my patches are used my name isn't in the changelog except i file a debian bug :P
<\sh> slomo: i had luck and he is a good debian maintainer :)
<ajmitch> hi
<\sh> re ajmitch
<slomo> wb ajmitch
<ajmitch> \sh: I would have thought that not renaming libclan2c2-vorbis would be a mistake, seeing as it links with the main clanlib lib exactly like the others do
<\sh> ajmitch: yes...but is it exporting shlibs? because doko created the lists regarding the shlibs exports
<\sh> anyways..we can always revert before the 19th :)
<\sh> I just used the change now with the last merge
<ajmitch> yes, it is exporting shlibs
<ajmitch> it's the same as the rest of the clanlib packages
<\sh> ajmitch: ok...then doko was wrong..:)
<\sh> grmpf...why I can't get my i386 pbuilder running...
<ajmitch> especially as you'd have to screw up debian/rules to get 1 package only with 2c2
<\sh> it always takes amd64 packages and not the i386
<ajmitch> and the rest with 2c2a
<ajmitch> \sh: what does dpkg-architecture say in the pbuilder chroot?
<\sh> ajmitch: I have to recreate it somehow...
<ajmitch> ah
<\sh> ajmitch: but I just followed the documentation on the pbuilder documenation webpage
<\sh> and --debootstrapargs "--arch=i386" during create should give me the i386 packages, and not the amd64
<ajmitch> right
<Kyral> Hey, anyone know if I can run a wget from debian/postinst?
<slomo> i wonder what happened to the debian NEW queue... one of my packages is still there since 6 days, beagle since 4...
<raphink> Kyral: what for?
<ajmitch> slomo: simple, it's debian
<slomo> Kyral: sure... but it's not very sane in most cases... why do you want it?
<Kyral> slomo: I'm customizing openafs-client for the lab build up here
<Kyral> I have to pull some files from our server
<ajmitch> Kyral: so are you ready to give a demo of packaging at your lab?
<slomo> ajmitch: fine... so when you just upload banshee now we have enough time to review and fix it until it's out of NEW ;P
<Kyral> ajmitch: I have until next semester ;P
<Kyral> basically I am going to use the debian/postinst to apply the customizations we need done to the package
<slomo> Kyral: why can't you ship the files but need to get them in postinst?
<Kyral> because we need to be able update the files w/o having to repackage the thing
<slomo> then do it ;)
<Kyral> yah its not like these will ever see a repo outside our own
<LaserJock> Hieronymus: still around?
<Hieronymus> LaserJock: yes
<Hieronymus> and no, I haven't tried dapper yet
<slomo> \sh: hm, the sleepless merger?
<\sh> hehe
<\sh> I have to catch up with you guys :)
<slomo> definitly not with me... you had more merges than me from the beginning... and in the time where i was working only on mplayer you did millions of merges ;)
<\sh> ah trillions pls :)
<\sh> I'm not so slow :)
<LaserJock> azeem: ping? again
<LaserJock> Hieronymus: np
<slomo> \sh: we only have ~20000 packages :P
<\sh> slomo: well those merges now...it was my second time I touched them :)
<Hieronymus> LaserJock: maybe tomorrow, or next week
<slomo> oh lol... i chose the correct merge ;) http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/patches/dillo/
<LaserJock> \sh: would you mind checking my merges/syncs at MOTUToMerge?
<\sh> LaserJock: do u have a list of malone bugnos? if so..please mail sh@sourcecode.de :)
<LaserJock> \sh: ok, on its way
<\sh> LaserJock: cool
<raphink> how should I do if I want my ubuntu packages in Debian aswell ?
<\sh> you need a sponsor
<raphink> I have an alioth project and at least 2 DDs in it ;)
<raphink> so I only need to find a DD that would upload it for me?
<\sh> think so...I'm not familiar with the ways of debian..to slow for me :)
<\sh> too even :)
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> well what I mean is
<raphink> about syncing
<raphink> hmm
<\sh> raphink: ajmitch is the right person to ask :)
<raphink> how should I number the debian package? how should it be related to my ubuntu package?
<raphink> ajmitch: pin
<raphink> ping
<raphink> lol
* raphink is getting tired
<slomo> hmm... why is something listed as to-be-merged although we have the debian version without changes?
<\sh> slomo: package?
<slomo> pygame
<minghua> hello MOTUs!
<slomo> hi minghua
<minghua> how is the REVU day going?
<raphink> not fast
<raphink> :(
<\sh> slomo: it's an assigned bug for you...did you request a sync and didn't close your bug?
<\sh> hmm
<\sh> mbreit was requesting a sync on the 2005-11-19
<slomo> \sh: i re-created the bug because it told me "last: mail@slomosnail.de" as assignee
<raphink> hi minghua
<minghua> hi raphink, slomo
<\sh> slomo: different version from the last upload?
<\sh> 1.7.1release-1 was the last sync
<slomo> \sh: and it should be autosynced to -2
<slomo> no changes were made
<\sh> slomo: strange..close it then :)
<\sh> slomo: or ask scott :)
<slomo> hmm, closing is less work ;) i'll ask him when this happens again
<\sh> LaserJock: tex-guy uploaded
<LaserJock> \sh: thanks
<\sh> LaserJock: bug 4091 is gvr not xchat-systray
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4091: gvr: sync new debian version In: gvr (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: Rejected https://launchpad.net/bugs/4091
<crimsun> oh god, not Imake hell
<\sh> LaserJock: mayavi uploaded
<LaserJock> \sh: sorry should be bug 4081
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4081: systray (Ubuntu) - xchat-systray: merge new debian version In: xchat-systray (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU, Status: PendingUpload https://launchpad.net/bugs/4081
<\sh> LaserJock: k
<\sh> crimsun: imake hell?
<crimsun> xemacs21 -> wnn6-sdk > ftbfs
<\sh> LaserJock: see #u-devel...requested the syncs...
<LaserJock> ahhh, katie loves me ;-)
<\sh> crimsun: ugh
<LaserJock> \sh: thanks much
<\sh> LaserJock: all your bugs done..please check dapper-changes and buildds :)
<LaserJock> \sh: will do
<LaserJock> \sh: how hard did you look at the diffs?
<\sh> LaserJock: well...the most interesting question is, how hard did I look on the merge report :)
<raphink> 2 AM here
<raphink> time for bed ;)
<LaserJock> \sh: ah, it just seems like you did that fast
<raphink> another long day
<\sh> LaserJock: the most interesting parts are dropped patches...what is mom dropping from debian, or vice versa...
<\sh> LaserJock: and much much more interesting is....when there are ubuntu dropped patches
<LaserJock> yeah, I haven't seen to many of those
<\sh> LaserJock: well..dropped debian patches are most of the time already applied by ubuntu...so there is a match between debian and ubuntu...
<\sh> and could be seen as a good candidate for a sync
<LaserJock> right
<\sh> well...the most problematic is "dropped ubuntu changes"
<LaserJock> I just need to stop picking wxwidgets2.6 to work on. that thing takes a long time to build
<LaserJock> yeah I don't understand why MoM drops patches
<\sh> LaserJock: hehehe
<hub> hey \sh
<\sh> LaserJock: well...easy
<\sh> good morning hub :)
<\sh> LaserJock: e.g. glu-transition
<\sh> LaserJock: we are using for mesa stuff the following build-deps: libgl1-mesa-dev and libglu1-mesa-dev
<\sh> LaserJock: debian but is still using the old xlibsmesa-glu-dev and xlibsmesa-gl-dev or the transitional packages libgl1-xorg-dev etc.
<hub> \sh: it is not the morninh here
<hub> \sh: so you quit?
<\sh> LaserJock: so, mom will tell us the difference between debian and ubuntu and put them into ubuntu dropped patches
<LaserJock> \sh: I would think that it is well defined enough that that MoM could handle it
<\sh> hub: yes
<\sh> hub: but here it's morning :)
<azeem> LaserJock: pong again
<LaserJock> azeem: did you see bug 5632 ?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #5632: Ghemical won't start up (breezy amd64) In: ghemical (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Science, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5632
<azeem> yeah
<LaserJock> I am getting the bug reporter to make a dapper chroot to see if it is the same in dapper but I don't have access to an AMD64
<azeem> me neither
<LaserJock> he also did bug 5643
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #5643: [patch]  Ghemical .desktop file is not so good (absolute path, missing stuff, invalid stuff) In: ghemical (Ubuntu), Severity: Minor, Assigned to: MOTU Science, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5643
<azeem> yeah, saw that one as well
<LaserJock> anway, you have probably already saw all that but I wondered if it was anything you wanted to do upstream
<LaserJock> before we sync again
<azeem> maybe we could ask whether he could try another XServer for #5632, as the first frame of the backtrace shows the r200 DRI module
<\sh> ghemical is not installable on amd64 (dapper)
<LaserJock> \sh: how about breezy?
<LaserJock> \sh: that's great
<\sh> we don't think about breezy :)
<LaserJock> I know, I was just wondering if it had something to do with the last release
<\sh> i'll install...let me check
<azeem> yeah, it FTBFS on 64bit arches
<azeem> I sent that upstream
<LaserJock> but considering that it was pretty unusable in breezy anyway... AMD64 isn't much worse off
<azeem> hrm, at least I thought I did
<\sh> well...drawing one line works
<\sh> clicking on the edge of this line and it segfaults
<LaserJock> \sh: sounds the same as i386 ;-)
<Kyral> oy...
<LaserJock> \sh: so it started up ok for you on AMD64 in Breezy?
<\sh> LaserJock: yes..starting was no problem on breezy
<LaserJock> ok, so what should we do with the bug report? reject?
<azeem> LaserJock: we could ask that he should try without hardware OpenGL or use the Vesa driver
<azeem> it apparently is a problem on his box, but might be driver specific, dunno
<\sh> looks like
<LaserJock> to bad he left, he was just here not long ago
<\sh> actually i have a nvidia card, but running only the xorg nv drivers
<\sh> without a monitor..so display is done on my laptop :)
<azeem> oh, I sent it to Tommi privately
<\sh> but now it's time to go to bed :)
<LaserJock> azeem: ok, and I'll comment on the bug
<\sh> good night folks :)
<azeem> ok
<LaserJock> cya \sh. thanks for the merges/syncs
<LaserJock> any MOTUs willing to do a quick review?
<sistpoty> hi folks
<seth_k|lappy> hi sistpoty :)
<sistpoty> adventurous /me dist-upgrades to dapper :)
<seth_k|lappy> hehe
* seth_k|lappy is going to kde 3.5 on his dapper box right now
<seth_k|lappy> I did kde 3.5 on the other dapper box last week, worked okay
<sistpoty> cool... I use kde as well :)
<seth_k|lappy> hmm... where is Mez, anyways. no uploads since 2 november, is he still around?
<sistpoty> no idea
<sistpoty> and \sh_away did more merges tonight than I could in 2 weeks :/
<seth_k|lappy> yeah
<seth_k|lappy> it takes me a longgg time to do a merge
<seth_k|lappy> but I guess I'll get faster
<sistpoty> you will ;)
<seth_k|lappy> now if only I didn't have to worry about university :D packaging == more fun than biology
<LaserJock> man, I'm with you there seth_k|lappy
<sistpoty> hehe... and I should have done to programming projects since last week :(
<sistpoty> s/since/until/
<seth_k|lappy> brb, KDE 3.5 is ready... I hope it lets me log back in :P
<seth_k|lappy> wow, a perfect upgrade
* seth_k|lappy gives mad props
<sistpoty> I'm off to bed now... cya tomorrow
<Kyral> Its official....
<Kyral> you can type too much in one day
<Kyral> my arms are killing me
<LaserJock> Kyral: school?
<Kyral> yup...
<Kyral> and not done yet..ow...
<LaserJock> man, I glad I'm not an undergrad ;-)
<Kyral> Shaddup...
<bmonty_> haha
<LaserJock> heah, I did my time
<bmonty_> do you TA?
<Kyral> no..
<Kyral> I'm entering a shitload of data into a database
<Kyral> and I still have to write the frontend...
<LaserJock> bmonty_: I'm done TA'ing. I'm RA from now on
<bmonty_> good...I always thought TAs were pricks...especially the ones that couldn't speak English
<LaserJock> bmonty_: yeah, there is quite a bit of difference in cultures when it comes to teaching
<bmonty_> LaserJock: I have a lot of problems with the academic culture....it was difficult doing my masters after having worked for a couple of years
<LaserJock> I'm doing it all at once so I don't have time to learn any better
<LaserJock> I started my 8th straight year of college this fall, not even a summer off
<LaserJock> and I realized on my birthday that I had been in college for exactly 1/3 of my life
<LaserJock> I got kinda depressed
<bmonty_> yeah, I can see that :)
<minghua> LaserJock made me depressed too :-(
<minghua> on my next birthday it's gonna be 1/3 as well
<LaserJock> minghua: are you about done?
<minghua> LaserJock: well, not yet.  Most likely I'll get my Ph.D. in two years
<LaserJock> minghua: doing a masters right now?
<minghua> LaserJock: no, fifth year into my Ph.D. program...
<LaserJock> minghua: ahh, I'm 4th year. Hope to be done in a year. We'll see ;-)
<bmonty_> I gotta give it to you guys, I couldn't stand that much time in school
<LaserJock> bmonty_: well, once you get in so far you can't go back. It'
<LaserJock> It's like some kind of black hole
<LaserJock> You just keep working with the promise that some day you will graduate
<Kyral> Okay...I'm done for now...
<LaserJock> btw, anybody know how to strip \n off of readlines() in Python?
<Amaranth> strip() :)
<Kyral> This is odd
<Kyral> My arms don't hurt where you think they would
<Kyral> You'd think my wrists would be killing me. Instead its my upper arms
<bmonty_> Kyral: you should change your nick to CarpalTunnelBoy
<SEJeff> Kyral you might invest in the keyboard I just got
<SEJeff> I type lots of perl and shell scripts at work and needed to keep from getting carpal tunnel. Buying a M$ Natural 4000 Ergonomical Keyboard was the best thing I could have done
<Kyral> For how much lol
<SEJeff> Kyral: http://www.neowin.net/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t387499.html It works perfect for me and here is an honest review
<SEJeff> $50 from amazon
<Kyral> ......fuck that lol
<Kyral> my wrists don't hurt
<Kyral> its my upper arms
<SEJeff> Your arms should be at a 90 degree angle. Ergonomics is something overlooked way too often
* bmonty_ likes the natural keyboards
<SEJeff> I type faster on ergonomic, but I use both
<Kyral> I just use wireless
<SEJeff> to each his own :)
<SEJeff> I'm off, time to go work out
<Kyral> I actully like my laptop keyboard
<Kyral> how small it is
<Kyral> I wish I could find one like that for my desktop
<Kyral> hmm this looks good http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16823192002
<ajmitch> afternoon
<magnon> hey :)
<magnon> early morning here though
<seth_k|lappy> 11pm here :P
<magnon> sleeping is overrated.
<ajmitch> I've had worse :)
<crimsun> nice job yesterday, ajmitch
<LaserJock> crimsun: funny, that was today for me. Global communication is
<LaserJock> interesting some times
<crimsun> LaserJock: it's technically today for me _at this moment_, too, but it's close enough to tomorrow (1 min)
<LaserJock> 9:00pm here
<ajmitch> crimsun: thanks
<ajmitch> crimsun: it could probably be done better next time
<zakame> afternoon all! ;D
<crimsun> 'afternoon
<ajmitch> hi zakame
<zakame> heya crimsun and ajmitch ! :D
* zakame reads the motu-school logs
<zakame> hm, is it just me, or are the html irclogs borked?
<crimsun> yeah, I've had to use the raw log
<zakame> waah
<zakame> heya Kyral
<Kyral> hey
* StevenK wonders what to do about a merge that doesn't exist in MoM.
<ajmitch> StevenK: do it by hand
<irvin> nice tutorial ajmitch thanks a lot!
<zakame> waah, I almost thought I could just sync mma :/
<ajmitch> irvin: not too confusing?
<irvin> not to me... so far :-)
<StevenK> ajmitch: I actually meant in terms of filing a bug in LP.
<ajmitch> StevenK: oh right
<ajmitch> just file it? :)
<ajmitch> unless the source package isn't listed in malone
<ajmitch> in which case you have to go & whinge to the launchpad people again
* ajmitch just decided to sit an LPI exam simulation online, and passed
<ajmitch> rather surprising ;)
<irvin> LPI?
<ajmitch> linux professional institute
<ajmitch> hm
* ajmitch passed the second exam simulation as well
<lifeless> u r de bpmb
<irvin> you're on a roll ajmitch
<ajmitch> no, I just think theyy're a little too easy :P
<ajmitch> lifeless: how's opensync going?
<lifeless> builds & passes tests
<lifeless> their demo debian rules are uhm interesting though
<lifeless> I want to tweak a bit before I upload
<ajmitch> alright
<magnon> omigod. rockstar has released GTA and GTA2 for free :O
* magnon feels like being 14 again
<Mithrandir> they released GTA 1 at least years ago.
<magnon> I never discovered
<magnon> morning, by the way
<minghua> hi ajmitch, thanks for the comments on my xfonts-wqy debdiff
<minghua> ajmitch: I've updated the debdiff now, if you have time to give it a review, I would appreciate it
<minghua> it's bug 5568 for your convinience :-)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #5568: xfonts-wqy FTBFS due to missing build dependency In: Ubuntu, Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Reviewers Team, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5568
<lifeless> ajmitch: azeem: so opensync
<ajmitch> yes?
<lifeless> my plan is to import 0.13 into bzr
<lifeless> with a separate tree for debian/
<lifeless> I'll then have one bzr branch representing upstream
<ajmitch> sounds reasonable
<lifeless> and one for the packaged version
<ajmitch> patches will be against the upstream branch?
<lifeless> with (probably) one intermediate branch per patch
<lifeless> which then gives us patch tracking
<lifeless> yes, in a logical sense they are against upstream.
<sivang> morning all
<lifeless> in a pragmatic sense its just a branch we edit ;)
<ajmitch> well that's a good start, the main branches will live on launchpad somewhere?
<ajmitch> not that repository location matters too much with bzr :)
<lifeless> I'll register them ;)
<lifeless> I guess we should register an opensync product too.
<raphink> 2nd review day today?
<pef> hello
<raphink> hi pef
<pef> hi raphink
<raphink> a roule?
* sivang reattempts to read interfaceverification.txt - this time from start to end.
<pef> I've uploaded a bad merge (forgot to modify debian/control.m4 which modify debian/control), so I've upload a new corrected revision, but it doesn't seems to do nothing, where am I wrong ?
<lifeless> ajmitch: azeem: upstream in bzr: http://people.ubuntu.com/~robertc/opensync/upstream
<siretart> no itp for opensync yet?
<ajmitch> siretart: yes, lifeless filed one
<ajmitch> 342179
<lifeless> siretart: FSVON
<robotgeek> hi, i was trying to setup a breezy chroot using debootstrap, but the apt-get update fails with a gpg error. i solved the issue with a include=gnupg --resolve-deps, should i file a bug?
<siretart> lifeless: yay!
<robotgeek> anyone? :)
<siretart> robotgeek: last time I debootstrapped breezy, it went flawlessly
<siretart> robotgeek: do you use deboostrap from dapper or breezy?
<robotgeek> siretart: i tried yesterday night, today morning too. with us.archive,archive.ubuntu.com
<robotgeek> siretart: breezy
<robotgeek> i did read a debian bug which said the same thing, but it also said ubuntu doesn't have the problem :)
<sivang> lifeless: opensync is something similar to rsync ?
<lifeless> sivang: not at all.
<siretart> sivang: no, it is the successor of multisync
<lifeless> its the engine for multisync
<ajmitch> sivang: think sync for pdas, phones, etc
<lifeless> siretart: not successor, component extracted from
<sivang> lifeless: ah , nice
<sivang> it's a framework and clients that are loosly coupled , as it seem from the project's page
<siretart> lifeless: oh. so multisync is not obsoleted at all?
<robotgeek> siretart: i used it about 2 months ago or so, (multisync) it worked on the first go :)
<ajmitch> siretart: the new multisync uses opensync
<siretart> ajmitch: aaah, this explains my confusion
* siretart hopes it will make it into dapper
<ajmitch> there's a reasonable chance, I'd say
<lifeless> what address did we decide to use ?
<ajmitch> did we decide on one?
<ajmitch> since launchpad team aliases don't seem to be in place yet
<lifeless> pts I think
<ajmitch> right
<siretart> do you have an alioth project for coordinating the opensync pkg team effords?
<lifeless> I've never used the pts as a maintainer address - whats the syntax ?
<robotgeek> thanks guys, i think i'll go ahead and file a bug. i'll try it out once more
<ajmitch> opensync@packages.qa.debian.org
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> maybe not, that requires a header
<lifeless> meh
<lifeless> I'll put my name in for now
<lifeless> so there is *something* valud
<ajmitch> everyone else can be in uploaders
<lifeless> ok
<lifeless> I really must get time to clean up disk space to setup pbuilder
<lifeless> at the moment I manage my chroots by hand
<pef> lamont: hello, can you help me wit an upload issue ?
<sivang> lifeless: I've reached the "And Benefits" part, just for developing expecations for the rest of the document -
<sivang> lifeless: are you talking there about actually implementing a similar mechanism to the one exposed by the db, that can define and use the same logic, to test code against? ;-)
<lifeless> not as such, unless you are writing a db in your code
<lifeless> but consider that you are writing an implementation of an interface that depends on a db
<lifeless> that *interface* is what the rest of your code needs.
<lifeless> the *db* is not
<lifeless> but the db is the slow bit.
<sivang> lifeless: ok thanks for the clarification - that makes a sense ,I will read it to end before asking how you are going to make the itnerface act and produce the same output as the intfc. using the db..:-)
<lifeless> sivang: thats what the paper is about ;)
<lifeless> ajmitch: is there a control macro to get the build-deps ?
<lifeless> ajmitch: it would be kinda useful to keep the -dev package in sync with the build-deps ;)
<sivang> lifeless: oh cool, DependencyInjection to start with
<lifeless> sivang: DI is overemphasised in the current version
<lifeless> midweek I will be revamping that bit. The key idea is making the tests aim at an interface
<lifeless> and parameterising them with one or more implementations
<lifeless> and *then* using an arbitrary implementation to test all the code that needs that interface
<sivang> nice, you would then be able to choose the implementation that best produces the expected results from the interface.
<lifeless> well
<lifeless> they should all produce the same results ;)
<lifeless> however some may be more appropriate than others in a test environment
<sivang> yes
<sivang> I understand that you aim to test the interface that way - but then how does testing the interface over an arbitrary set of implementation helps to ensure that the interface is at good quality / designed well ? (Hmm, I should probably finish reading before asking stuff like that ;-)
<ajmitch> lifeless: about the macro, I don't know of one..
<lifeless> ajmitch: :[
<lifeless> sivang: so, if its hard to write two implementations of an interface, thats a hint ;)
<lifeless> sivang: this is not about verifying the design of an interface, its about verifying interfaces by contract & behaviour, which ensures that test defined behaviour is equivalent on all implementations and thus guarantees substatutability.
<lifeless> ajmitch: azeem: are you guys on the opensync dev list already ?
<azeem> good point
<azeem> :)
<azeem> hrm, why isn't it on fd.o?
<sivang> lifeless: uh-ha. /me is enlightened.
<raphink> 2nd review day already ended or not begun yet ? ;)
<lifeless> azeem: the list ?
<JohnnyMast> you guys have been bussy
<JohnnyMast> :) very good
<azeem> lifeless: yeah, I hate SF's list archives, e.g.
<azeem> anyway, subscribed
<lifeless> azeem: me too
<ajmitch> yes, although the devel list is quite quiet
<azeem> hub left here, right?
<azeem> he was blogging about open/multisync as well, IIRC
<azeem> ah no, he was around eralier
<azeem> eh, earlier
<\sh> hmmm
<\sh> this morning at 6:28 after running cron.daily my amd64 just switched off magically..and nothing in the logs
<\sh> -ESTRANGE
<ajmitch> heating?
<ajmitch> you might have a low temperature threshold set in the bios
<\sh> ajmitch: well..living under the roof and in the room where the machine is, there is no heating..it's quite cold...it just ran for more then 4 days
<sivang> lifeless: could you give an example for 'composition' as a remedy to "Tackling the writing code twice aspect" ?
<lifeless> well
<lifeless> say that one implementation has some code
<lifeless> that chooses what actions to take based on the state of a content object
<lifeless> (aka domain object)
<lifeless> if you put that code in a strategy class
<lifeless> both implementations can use it
<lifeless> so you are composing things rather than inheriting, to get the code reused
<\sh> ajmitch: and the problem with debootsraparchs "--arch=i386" I just logined into the pbuilder chroot and it gives me amd64
<sivang> so each implementation instantiates an object of the strategy class type , and then uses that object to achive the same state based behavior as before?
<lifeless> sivang: yes
<ajmitch> \sh: right..
<ajmitch> midnight, sleep time
<ajmitch> night all
<raphink> should `normal users' report universe bugs to malone directly?
<sivang> ajmitch: good night
<lifeless> night
<\sh> raphink: yes
<\sh> cu ajmitch
<raphink> or is there a way for them to report without subscribing to launchpad?
<raphink> I'm trying to have a user report a bug
<raphink> but he doesn't feel like subscrbing to LP
<raphink> :(
<raphink> this is a shame, since he found out how to fix the bug, too
<azeem> ask in #launchpad?
<raphink> should I report it myself ?
<raphink> hmm
<sivang> raphink: why not?
<azeem> raphink: well, you could, but I would report that issue as well
<raphink> azeem: what issue ?
<\sh> raphink: is it hara?
<raphink> that users have to subscribe to LP  ?
<jpatrick> \sh: yes
<raphink> \sh: yes
<azeem> raphink: users not reporting bugs due to entry barriers
<raphink> mhm
<\sh> raphink: well...I don't know his problem with not subscribing...everywhere u have to subscribe
<azeem> \sh: to report bugs?
<raphink> yes that's right
<\sh> azeem: normally not...
<azeem> \sh: I mean, I would subscribe somewhere if I get something out of it
<\sh> only reporting via email needs a subscribtion
<azeem> here, Ubuntu gets something out of the user, yet still they are required to jump through hoops first
<azeem> \sh: ah
<azeem> that's different then
<\sh> azeem: but you have to subscribe...
<\sh> well...so actually we know the human being who reported the bug..which is quite good, because if it's a serious bug he will be famous :)
<raphink> hehe
<womble> lifeless: If I give you a testcase for baz, what's the chances that the problem could get solved in a reasonable amount of time?
<lifeless> womble: low. I'm not aware of anyone actively working on baz day to day.
<lifeless> womble: the problem will get assessed, problably impact and % of users I expect to encounter it rule-of-thumbed
<womble> Gah.
<womble> The problem is that baz browse --hide-sealed is a noop.
<lifeless> unless those figures are high, I won't make time for it. Andy Tai and Derek Zhou are doing some stuff with tla
<lifeless> right, thats definately in the dont-care-unless-the-test-case-comes-with-a-patch bin
<lifeless> but I can offer you a baz2bzr at discount rates
<womble> lifeless: I've already switched everyone to one completely different workflow (cvs to arch), I don't think I have the cred to completely shake things up again
<lifeless> fair enough
<lifeless> that should not be too hard for you to fix, its just completely UI, and as the code base is not part of bazaar 2, theres no motivation to fix cosmetic issues
<lifeless> try 1.5, it may have that fixed.
<womble> I tried the latest autobuilt 1.5 deb
<JohnnyMast> PyGTK == gnome-python right ??
<JohnnyMast> on suse its part of t
<JohnnyMast> *it
<womble> JohnnyMast: No.  PyGTK == python-gtk2
<sivang> lifeless: going to fetch something to eat, will you be around in about 0.5hrs ?
<JohnnyMast> ok
<JohnnyMast> thankz womble
<lifeless> maybe ;)
<womble> gnome-python is a set of bindings to higher-level GNOME-specific stuff, like gconf
<sivang> lifeless: ok, I Might have more questions, am I free to email you then?
<lifeless> of course
<sivang> thanks, so laters :)
<JohnnyMast> i dont know if i should include python-gtk2 or python-gtk2-dev as dep
<womble> JohnnyMast: Which one are you using?
<JohnnyMast> if i knew what he used i would not ask this, see its for revu
<JohnnyMast> the developer only sayes that it depends on pygtk wich is in gnome-python on suse
<JohnnyMast> ooh np
<JohnnyMast> ile do -dev because it installs python-gtk2 as well
<JohnnyMast> because it depends on that package. Thanks any ways
<womble> Don't guess.  Work it out.
<JohnnyMast> i just did
<womble> JohnnyMast: If it's a python-using application, then python-gtk2 should work fine.
<JohnnyMast> alrighty then womble thanks for your help
<JohnnyMast> hmmm
<JohnnyMast> kiwi just entered ubuntu right ?
<JohnnyMast> as i saw on revu
<JohnnyMast> why doesnt it have build1 ?
<lifeless> ajmitch: azeem: http://people.ubuntu.com/~robertc/opensync/opensync-debian main source with a bugfix ;)
<lifeless> ajmitch: azeem: http://people.ubuntu.com/~robertc/opensync/opensync-debian-dir the control dir (currently buggy as I'm fiddling ;))
<azeem> lifeless: why do you put dh_install in the install: target rather than binary-arch?
<azeem> is dh_make doing that these days?
<lifeless> debhelpers samples suggest that
<azeem> hrm
<lifeless> dh_make is deprecated ;)
<azeem> never heard of those samples :)
<lifeless> hmm, I'm going to reproduce autogen in rules
<lifeless> it does not have a 'do not futz with the source' mode
<lifeless> (that and its trivial)
<lifeless> oh joy
<lifeless> I so love finding bugs
<lifeless> upstreams that dont run distcheck should be shot
<lifeless> or at least have pain inflicted on them
<lifeless> not to mention that this seems ratehr ugly as a test :
<lifeless> '!system("test \"x$(ls data1/testdata3)\" = \"xdata1/testdata3\"")'
<lifeless> not portable to windows, not portable if environment has default long options for ls, ...
<azeem> lifeless: did I mention that the multisync-0.82 tarball ships with -> /usr/share/automake1.6/foo symlinks :)
<lifeless> heh
<lifeless> does not surprise me
<Seveas> <lifeless> dh_make is deprecated ;) <-- what to use instead?
<azeem> Seveas: /usr/share/doc/debhelper/examples/ e.g.
<Seveas> k
<azeem> Seveas: or just copy another rules file and adjust it
<lifeless> cargo cults R us
<lifeless> ok, I'm happy with the packaging now - it fails loudly ;)
<Seveas> better loudly than silently
<lifeless> dh_install --fail-missing
<lifeless> *always* use that
<azeem> oh, sounds like useful option
<azeem> does cdbs use --list-missing at least?
* azeem checks
<lifeless> hmm
<lifeless> we have binaries now
<lifeless> osyncdump, osyncstress, osyncplugin, osynctest, osyncbinary
<lifeless> all installed to tmp by the source
<lifeless> which ones to package, do we want separate packages, ?
<azeem> opensyncutils?
<lifeless> yeah, thats a good name
<azeem> those do not seem like regular end-user apps
<azeem> but honestly, I haven't looked into them
<azeem> the .spec file just seems to drop everything in one package
<azeem> it uses "--enable-engine --enable-debug --enable-tracing --disable-profiling --enable-tools --disable-unit-tests --disable-python" as configure args, btw
<lifeless> yah
<lifeless> rpm == crapola
<lifeless> their mockup debian package also did a terrible job.
<lifeless> doesn't even build
<azeem> well, seems to be maintained by an outside contributor
<lifeless> I snarfed the package description from there.
<lifeless> I emailed him a week ago, no reply.
<azeem> yeah, that's what they're good for :)
<lifeless> nearly there
<lifeless> hmm, is this butt ugly or what:
<lifeless> /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/_opensync.la
<lifeless> !
<lifeless> I should check python policy for that
<dholbach> hi
<dholbach> how's the review day going? :)
<JohnnyMast> what do i have to change in dput.cf ?
<dholbach> JohnnyMast: for revu?
<JohnnyMast> yep
<dholbach> JohnnyMast: should be on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU
<JohnnyMast> i saw there to edit it
<JohnnyMast> but not exactly what
<dholbach> ?
<dholbach> "Howto upload" has it all
<JohnnyMast> ok
<lifeless> garh
<lifeless> -dbg is not right yet
<lifeless> and the python package is awol
<lifeless> azeem: ajmitch: I would call the packaging 'draft' now.
<lifeless> if you want to play with it, those are bzr branches, we can start collaborating now ;)
<dholbach> lifeless: which package are you talking about?
<lifeless> I'm particularly interested to know if plugins build correctly with the -dev installed
<lifeless> dholbach: *opensync*
<dholbach> *ROCK*
<dholbach> -dbg is easy, if you use CDBS
<lifeless> yes, but noone has yet convinced be that cdbs is anything other than crack
<lifeless> s/be/me
<dholbach> convince yourself :)
<StevenK> lifeless: No-one has yet to be convinced that cdbs is anything other than crack.
<sivang> lifeless++ :)
<lifeless> -dbg is trivial with debhelper anyway
<lifeless> dholbach: for the python version, maybe.
<dholbach> i'm happy with it
<lifeless> no offence, but thats nice.
<lifeless> I saw my first cdbs package in 2004, and went blind.
* ogra hugs lifeless :)
<lifeless> :)
<lifeless> thanks ogra :)
<lifeless> azeem: anyway, if you want to start bringing up the plugin packages, the engine one should be *good enough* to start doing htat
<azeem> ok
<lifeless> azeem: I'll do another round of work on it some evening this week, or next weekend for sure.
<azeem> I am hacking on the hurd package currently and need to sponsor something else
<azeem> dunno if I get around to it today
<lifeless> oh no rush. just indicating my plans
<lifeless> i.e. i'm not planning on touching the plugins at this point
<azeem> same here :)
<azeem> okie
<lifeless> or multisync.
<lifeless> once the engine package is all happy then we'll see :)
<\sh> grmpf
* sivang -> back
<\sh> hmmm....can someone explain me the following
<\sh> guile-1.6-slib depends on slib...but slib won't be installed...apt-get install slib itself works nicely
<lifeless> oops, forgot the .install files, added and pushed ;)
<\sh> but slib is conflicts with guile-1.6-libs
<herve> hello
<jpatrick> hello herve
<raphink> hi herve
<jpatrick> raphink: do you have some time to look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1122 ?
<raphink> sure
* raphink hopes MOTUs review more today than yesterday :s
<jpatrick> raphink: it's in Universe (going to Main) but I've done some small changes
<raphink> jpatrick: why, it has been uploaded already...
<jpatrick> small changes
<raphink> let's see
<jpatrick> see changelog :P
<jpatrick> raphink: I thought since it's going to Main and is in Kubuntu seeds - let's add a Kubuntu theme :)
<raphink> going to main?
<jpatrick> raphink: yes
<raphink> how so?
<jpatrick> http://wiki.kubuntu.org/MainInclusionReportKSplashMoodin
<sivang> lifeless: btw, did I mention to you how I love ipython ?:)
<raphink> jpatrick: did you add the new theme directly in src ?
<jpatrick> raphink: yeah I didn't know how to sperate...
<jpatrick> without making two packages
<raphink> I wouldn't feel at ease with that jpatrick
<raphink> the pb is that when you upgrade the package using uupdate
<raphink> you'll lose it unless you put it back
<raphink> imo, you should keep the theme apart and set rules to install it
<raphink> or even package it separately
<jpatrick> raphink: I could make a `kubuntu-artwork-moodin` package
<raphink> but I'm not sure
<raphink> ask Riddell
<jpatrick> I'm waiting for him
<raphink> ksplash-moodin-kubuntu
<raphink> or whatever ;)
<raphink> ask Riddell
<jpatrick> kubuntu-artwork-* sounds better ;)
<raphink> hmm
<raphink> well it's not specific enough imo
<raphink> kubuntu-ksplash-moodin maybe
<raphink> dunno
<raphink> Riddell would tell that too
<jpatrick> let's ask Riddell
<herve> raphink, you would check a package in the meantime? :-)
<raphink> what package herve ?
<herve> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1039
<jpatrick> raphink: is a shame that this theme: http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=29426 : isn't GPL
<raphink> :(
<raphink> not even GPL-compatible?
<jpatrick> Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike License
<ogra> thats what we require for ubuntu themes too ...
<ogra> using a sourcecode license for artwork is a bit silly ...
<\sh> ogra: gpl compatiblity? or a CC license
<herve> but anyone couldn't sell kubuntu cds?
<ogra> thats why elmo requests the CC for artwork packages to get approved
<raphink> jpatrick: this is creative commons, it shouldn't be a pb for artwork
<ogra> see art.ubuntu.com ... there is a link on the bottom of every page
<jpatrick> pb?
<ogra> hmm, isnt anymore :/
<jpatrick> a problem
<Hieronymus> ogra: artwork is cc-sa-by, right?
<Hieronymus> nc is bad
<ogra> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuArtwork
<ogra> see at the bottom there ...
<ogra> thats the one elmo reeeeeeequirs to allow artwrk to get into main
* ogra curses his keyboard
<Hieronymus> cc-sa-by, yes
<raphink> herve: your package is not in ubuntu yet ...
<jpatrick> raphink: will it be safe to put into a GPL package?
<herve> raphink, yes, trying hard...
<raphink> jpatrick: I think many artwork stuff in Ubuntu are under CC
<raphink> might be wrong though
<raphink> herve: you should keep -0ubuntu1 as long as it's not uploaded
<raphink> there's no reason why the first version officially available would be -0ubuntu4
<herve> you're right, keeping the revision bump for archive uploads
<\sh> raphink: 0ubuntu0.1 is much better
<raphink> \sh: why?
<herve> hello \sh
<Hieronymus> jpatrick: according to http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/license-list.html cc-by-sa 2.0 is incompatible with the GPL
<\sh> raphink: on revu you can see your updated revisions...and when it's advocated the official ubuntu version will become 0ubuntu1
<jpatrick> damn
<raphink> who will change it to 0ubuntu1 and when then \sh ?
<herve> me :-) I'm a motu
<raphink> hehe ;)
<raphink> oki
* raphink thinks about the funny situation of reviewing a motu's package when you're not even one 
<herve> think about me waiting advocating since hoary
<\sh> well motus are just normal people
<\sh> making mistakes
<\sh> doing stupid things
<\sh> don't have a clue what they're doing..just like me
<raphink> sure
<lifeless> azeem: just changed the package names
<lifeless> libopensync0
<raphink> it's just not usual in our society to check the work of people with more responsabilities
<lifeless> etc
<herve> come one \sh
<herve> s/one/on
<lifeless> azeem: helps to read the library policy when one is not used to libraries :)
<lifeless> azeem: thats a FYI incase of early use. all changes pushed, gnight
<\sh> raphink: not? damn.I knew this...
<\sh> raphink: because people with more responsibilities, but without a clue are always checking the work of normal working people :)
<raphink> in the "normal society", yes \sh
<raphink> sadly
<lifeless> I will need a hand though, checkout the libopensync0/DEBIAN/shlibs file - the format plugins:[
<\sh> make: *** No rule to make target `install', needed by `binary/libgtkmathview0c2a'.  Stop.
<\sh> pbuilder: Failed autobuilding of package
<\sh> great...
<lifeless> ajmitch: ^^ azeem:
<azeem> lifeless: ok
<lifeless> night for real.
<azeem> sleep well :)
<lifeless> thanks
<lifeless> pythons working now
<lifeless> imports ok ;)
<slomo_> \sh: ajmitch had the same problem with one of my packages lately... maybe broken cdbs or something...
<\sh> slomo_: yes...it's cdbs...correct guess
<dholbach> i guess pitti broke it ;)
<herve> hello dholbach
<dholbach> hey herve!
<jpatrick> raphink: this is going to be one messy package
<raphink> herve: sent my comments
<raphink> hi dholbach
<raphink> jpatrick: I hope not
<herve> thanks raphink
<raphink> could you review mine, herve ? ;)
<herve> sure
<jpatrick> raphink: we could add it to kubuntu-default-settings
<raphink> herve: they are the ones signed by raphink@raphink.net
<raphink> jpatrick: just as my kubuntu-grub-splashimages if it's approved (hopefully)
<herve> raphink, as soon as my cat leaves the touchpad :-)
<raphink> haha
<herve> raphink, what do you mean by "grep-able patch names" ?
<raphink> hmm that the full name of the patch should be included in debian/changelog
<slomo_> \sh: yes, it's definitely cdbs that is broken :/
<raphink> so that you can grep changelog for the patch
<herve> ok
<raphink> slomo_: what kind of error do you have with cdbs ?
<\sh> slomo_: big big bull*h*t
* raphink has had pbs with cdbs + kde + pot files lately
<slomo_> raphink: seems like pitti's last change to cdbs killed it ;) it doesn't want to call make install for some reason...
<slomo_> rajasun: yes the last change was po-files related
<raphink> ok
<slomo_> raphink: even
<herve> raphink, but I can't touch the changelog and rewrite history
<\sh> how can a vital build important source break? ,)
<slomo_> bad autocompletion ;)
<raphink> herve: sure you can, since the package was not uploaded yet
<raphink> you can chnage everything that was added since last upload
<raphink> imo
<raphink> it's not official changes
<herve> sounds uncomfortable to me, but hey
<raphink> ;)
<raphink> herve: well you'll have to do it if you want to keep -0ubuntu1 as first release anyway
<herve> for that I keep the debian versioning in my repository
<herve> the ubuntu versioning was just for revu
<raphink> hmmm
<herve> and later for upload
<raphink> then it's ok
<raphink> I sometimes have a versionning that is not very logical on my own repository
<raphink> but people who use my repos are informed that it's not official
<raphink> and take their responsability for downloading from it
<herve> no, no, it's logical
<herve> but this package has a long existence
<raphink> yes I've seen that
<raphink> it has a long existence in Debian
<raphink> but not in Ubuntu yet
<herve> debian?
<raphink> no?
<herve> I could just dream about debian giving a look at it
<raphink> well as far as I see, previous versions were for sid
<herve> never a reply on the lists
<raphink> oooh
<herve> I used sid at that time
<raphink> so it has always been unofficial ?
<herve> yup
<raphink> ok
<raphink> so it's actually a new package
<raphink> not even a merge
<herve> why yes
<raphink> using unstable with debian-versionning in the changelog makes think it's a merge with Debian
<raphink> if it's a new package, I would go for a brand new changelog
<raphink> since there was no official version before
<raphink> but that's just my point, and I may be wrong on this
<herve> sounds fair
<tseng> be sure to leave credit to earlier authors
<tseng> if you are removing their changelogs
<raphink> tseng: herve is the earlier author
<herve> tseng, I'm the sole author :-)
<tseng> works for me
<raphink> so to me it sounds like it should be a brand new changelog
<herve> my... this package will soon be one year old
<raphink> ;)
<raphink> herve: in our society, people like NEW things ;)
<raphink> that'll give your package a new youth
<herve> yeah, it even has a docbook xml manpage now, thanks to \sh
<raphink> :)
<raphink> cool
<\sh> herve: ??
<herve> \sh, you encouraged me
<\sh> oh ah...no :)
<herve> raphink, dholbach, I don't understand why you wonder if the postinst, etc. are useful
<herve> it's a python package so there are pyc files to produce
<herve> debhelper does the job in these scripts
<tseng> python doesnt make its own pyc?
<herve> not when running with simple user rights I guess
<raphink> you never install a package with simple user rights... do you?
<herve> no, but the module won't get compiled by their own
<raphink> hmm
* raphink is gonna enjoy the bright day by going out for a walk :)
<raphink> if anyone feels like reviewing my packages, that'll make it a nice REVU day for me :)
<raphink> hehe
<herve> will do after fixing mine
<raphink> ok thanks
<dholbach> herve: you don't have anything in that postinst file
<dholbach> herve: it's just the #DEBHELPER# token
<dholbach> herve: that should get created automatically
<herve> you mean debhelper will create the file if it needs it?
<dholbach> yeah
<herve> ho
<herve> nice trick :-)
<herve> so indeed, I can drop them
<dholbach> only if you add special tricks to it, it's necessary
<herve> I thought #DEBHELPER# was a special trick in itself
<raphink> ;)
<herve> still there? ;-)
<herve> ok, let's see raphink's packages now
<Gloubiboulga> hello
<herve> hello
<Hieronymus> Source file is a bz2 but bzip2 or gzip not available at /usr/bin/dh_make line 409, <STDIN> line 2.
<Hieronymus> what does that mean?
<Hieronymus> I have bzip2 installed
* Kyral yawns
<Kyral> Morning MOTU
<Yagisan> Morning Kyral
* Kyral falls down
<Kyral> EasyChem only needs one more vote lol
<Gloubiboulga> I can't report a bug on gproftpd
<Gloubiboulga> malone doesn't
<Gloubiboulga> agree
<Kyral> Though somethign is funny. The lab build in the COSI runs Gentoo right now. And we are gonna switch it to something else. So they pass me the World file so I can look at the Apt-Cache
<Kyral> and one of the packages is EasyChem lol
<Hieronymus> Ah, I see.. http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=%23314875
<Kyral> FIle the bug and link it to that one
<Hieronymus> Kyral: would that get in -updates?
<Hieronymus> Kyral: bugzilla bug #20837
<Ubugtu> Error: Error getting Malone bug #20837: Bug does not exist
<Hieronymus> Ubugtu: no, bugzilla
<sistpoty> hi folks
<slomo_> hi sistpoty
<sistpoty> I'm on dapper now... but got kernel probs :(
<\sh> inti-sourceview is not available in dapper?
<slomo_> never heard of it before
<\sh> it's on the cxx transition list
<\sh> in dapper no binaries no sources, but in breezy sources and binaries
<sistpoty> it won't be on the list for long... (it's not on the current doko list)
<\sh> sistpoty: yeah...it's completly missing :)
<\sh> i'll open a bug for it..and close it :)
<\sh> then it's gone :)
<sistpoty> it's already gone
<\sh> sistpoty: kewl :)
<Hieronymus> LaserJock_: ping
<\sh> instanbul has no merge report assigned
* sistpoty looks
<sistpoty> \sh: istanbul needs to be merged... debian version is higher. no idea why it has no report
<\sh> sistpoty: ok..
<\sh> taking it
<jpatrick> sistpoty: what's todo with knemo?
<jpatrick> or any of the KApps there
* sistpoty looks
<sistpoty> jpatrick: merge the newer debian version
<sistpoty> jpatrick: the ones which have stdc++ as yes also need to be renamed (in case unstable didn't do renaming yet)
<jpatrick> \sh: about kxdocker I've packaged the lastest one with Deb merges here: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1115
<\sh> sistpoty: no
<\sh> sistpoty: kdeaccessibility e.g. only needs to be rebuild ( which is already)
<\sh> sistpoty: applications we don't rename
<\sh> sistpoty: and it's not on the list of doko
<sistpoty> \sh: sure... sorry I thought of libs *g*
<herve> raphink, all your package I've tried raised that cdbs configure error, we'll see later
<herve> see you all
<sistpoty> \sh: I'll drop kdeaccessibility then
<sistpoty> gone it is
<\sh> hehe
<\sh> sistpoty is da ruler :)
<sistpoty> hehe, I only issue some delete from ... statements ;)
<sistpoty> problem is, that doko released a list of libstdc++ stuff earlier on, and then updated it with removing many packages again. Unfortunately I had already imported the old list.
<LaserJock_> Hieronymus: it appears to be your graphics card
<LaserJock_> Hieronymus: the segfault it normal for breezy (unfortunately)
<jpatrick> \sh: ping?
<\sh> jpatrick: pong...I will check it just now...
<sistpoty> he, I'm doing merges the "DELETE FROM" way now :)
<sistpoty> I'm off to the kitchen cooking. cya later
<Hieronymus> LaserJock_: so.. is it a graphics driver bug?
<matid> Hi. How am I supposed to build package from source if I possibly want it to be included in the universe? Is checkinstall enough?
<matid> I know about pbuilder but isn't a tool to build from deb-src only?
<\sh> matid: checkinstall is not enough
<\sh> matid: you have to do it the right way
<matid> Is it described on Wiki or somewhere?
<matid> I know about building deb-src packages, however I haven't found anything about building from source
<jpatrick> matid: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuPackagingGuide
<matid> Thanks, I hope I'll be able to be useful someday ;)
<inovick> hello?
<JohnnyMast> lol hello
<matid> Is 'I: Checking component main on http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu...
<matid> ' while doing `sudo pbuilder create --distribution breezy` usually taking long?
<\sh> matid: sometime
<\sh> s
<ogra> t
<ogra> u
<ogra> v
<ogra> w
<ogra> ?
<shawarma> x?
<shawarma> wtf?
<\sh> aeh
<shawarma> that too
<\sh> the s belonged to sometimes
<shawarma> oh.
<ogra> ah
<matid> \sh: is building packages like described in this guide: http://www.us.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/index.en.html ok? I want to open my small repository to try before, in distant future, I'll try to join MOTU...
<\sh> matid: it's one of the beginning steps towards packaging..
<\sh> and ajmitch and I have to sum up yesterdays ubuntu-motu-school lecture :)
<matid> Anyway, thanks for your help, I go fighting with packaging ;)
<\sh> jpatrick: I think kxdocker is cdbs, right?
<JohnnyMast> any one interested to look at my package on revu ?
<jpatrick> \sh: no
<\sh> jpatrick: cool...eventually it will build..btw did you apply the .pot extraction stuff to it?
<jpatrick> \sh: yes I did
<jpatrick> as stated in changelog
<jpatrick> \sh: does this mean it will be uploaded?
<\sh> jpatrick: well...tomorrow somehow..when I'm back to normal...don't worry :)
<jpatrick> no problem :)
<jpatrick> and only one MOTU advocated it
<\sh> well....it's sunday..I have no work todo tomorrow....so it's a good time to sit and relax with a beer in my hand :)
* jpatrick is too young to drink beer :9 :(
<\sh> <16?
<jpatrick> yep
<\sh> I'm feeling again very old
<JohnnyMast> pff only 12 years older then me
<JohnnyMast> ow was that some one else that was 38
<\sh> JohnnyMast: i'm 34 next month 35 :)
<JohnnyMast> oooh my gf is 32
<\sh> well..my ex wife was 45:)
<JohnnyMast> my dad is 52 :p
<JohnnyMast> he says 49 because he`s counting back since his 50`s
<\sh> so he should be 48
<JohnnyMast> ow yeah
<JohnnyMast> hes starts to feel young again
<JohnnyMast> next he will be in diphers
<\sh> hehe
<JohnnyMast> \sh could you check my ttb contrib ?
<\sh> JohnnyMast: ttb?
<JohnnyMast> yeah
<JohnnyMast> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1123
<JohnnyMast> teletekst browser
<Hieronymus> JohnnyMast: you packaged ttb?
<JohnnyMast> yes
<Hieronymus> gj
<JohnnyMast> for real ?
<Hieronymus> uhm, yeah
<Hieronymus> I tried, actually..
<JohnnyMast> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1123 this one you mean ?
<Hieronymus> ttb-teletekst yes. Why aren't you in #ubuntu-nl ?
<JohnnyMast> Hieronymus dennis told me i misbehaved the last time (dont remember that) so i felt unwanted so i help out here
<\sh> JohnnyMast: but tomorrow..as I said to jpatrick i'm drinking beer right now...and I don't upload anymore :)
<Mithrandir> sh: you don't drink and upload?
<JohnnyMast> \sh thats okey
<JohnnyMast> i drink and code :)
<\sh> Mithrandir: not anymore...the last time I drank, I had too many good packages uploaded :)
<JohnnyMast> Hieronymus thanks for you compliments
<Hieronymus> JohnnyMast: I never said you packaged it in a good way, I just think it's nice you packaged ttb-teletekst
<JohnnyMast> Hieronymus no i get it :)
<JohnnyMast> lintian gives only 1 warning i think im alright
<JohnnyMast> :o
<crimsun> make sure you use the correct font path
<JohnnyMast> me ?
<jpatrick> damn netsplits
<JohnnyMast> yeah it floods the window
<Hieronymus> JohnnyMast: how?
<Hieronymus> use irssi :)
<JohnnyMast> hmm no
<JohnnyMast> then i cant scroll up
<JohnnyMast> im happy with my uber xchat
<Hieronymus> page-up/down
<JohnnyMast> i would use bitchx before irssi
* #ubuntu-motu  [freenode-info]  If you're at a conference, please contact freenode staff to make sure we've made special allowance for many users coming into our network from a single internet address ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp ). Private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked, except to network staff, services and participating registered users ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg )... Thanks!
<\sh> irssi can scroll up and down :)
<JohnnyMast> it looks to much like rsi
<JohnnyMast> if you know what that is
<\sh> well...I would use ircII if there is a correct version anywhere
<Mithrandir> ircII doesn't handle UTF8, does it?
<\sh> Mithrandir: well...as reference implementation I don't think so
<JohnnyMast> i even wonder if it follows rfc 2812
<\sh> JohnnyMast: it follows 1492
<crimsun> Mithrandir: not to any intelligible degree, no
<JohnnyMast> hmm
<Mithrandir> it's not like any of the IRC servers follow anything resembling an RFC, so who cares?
<JohnnyMast> mine does
<\sh> Mithrandir: welll...ircd should follow the RFC...
<JohnnyMast> well for the bigest part :)
<JohnnyMast> it has a cool name to
<JohnnyMast> anircd
<JohnnyMast> and my email is
<\sh> well...I should code again on kmyirc...
<JohnnyMast> rave@anircd.com :p
<JohnnyMast> i was like, hmmm im coding anircd what will its name be ?
<JohnnyMast> and ii found the name :p
<Mithrandir> what the world needs, yet another IRC daemon.
<\sh> I received a bug report 3 or 4 days ago....from a bsd user who was using this old program of mine;
<\sh> yaircd?
<SEJeff> Where do you report bugs for packages not on bugzilla or lp?
<\sh> well...this guy used kmirc with freenode and undernet...and received the message: "message code 333 not recognized please send this to me"
<\sh> kmyirc
<Mithrandir> JohnnyMast: so, does it have any useful features, like charset negotiation?
<\sh> I wrote him back: dude, this software is obsolete since 2 years..and please don't use irc networks who are inventing non rfc messages
<Mithrandir> sh: IRC has never been driven by RFC work, it's been driven by a few insane people, changing over time, but always insane.
<JohnnyMast> Mithrandir wel the core is basic but its has some unrealrcd like modules
<\sh> Mithrandir: sadly
<\sh> Mithrandir: I'm waiting when jabbers MUC will take over
<Mithrandir> sh: I would recommend waiting for flying pigs. :-)
<\sh> Mithrandir: or PsYC
<JohnnyMast> Mithrandir http://www.rosiello.net/cgi-bin/cvsweb/anircd/
<Mithrandir> sh: yeah, or psycich flying pigs, right.
<\sh> Mithrandir: SymlinX had nice ideas at this time :)
<ajmitch> morning
<JohnnyMast> morning aj
<Mithrandir> hi ajmitch
<shawarma> doesn't dpkg-buildpackage usually generate a .changes file?
<ajmitch> \sh: planned out the next school session?
<\sh> ajmitch: na..not now..will be in january
<\sh> ajmitch: nothing before xmas anymore
<JohnnyMast> it does with dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa -rfakeroot -k<your key>
<shawarma> JohnnyMast: That's what I thougt. And that's what it usually does.. What on earth could make it stop doing that? This is totally weird.
<JohnnyMast> shawarma http://www.stileproject.com/jessica.html check that as ref
<lifeless> shawarma: whats your package version ?
<lifeless> morning btw
<lifeless> ajmitch: hi
<shawarma> lifeless: Huh? 0.4-0ubuntu3. Why?
<ajmitch> hi lifeless
<sivang> lifeless: morning :)
<shawarma> JohnnyMast: Why am I doubtful that I'll find anything useful on stileproject?
<lifeless> shawarma: checking a hunch, never mind ;)
<JohnnyMast> shawarma check the url i  pasted you :)
<lifeless> hi sivang
<JohnnyMast> just wait and see
<shawarma> JohnnyMast: Freak. :-)
<JohnnyMast> lol
<JohnnyMast> ur under ur chair now ?
<shawarma> It still generates the .dsc and signs it and everything..
<shawarma> JohnnyMast: Nah. I've got the sound turned all the way down, so it wasn
<shawarma> 't that bad
<JohnnyMast> :(
<JohnnyMast> darn where is the fun :p
<ajmitch> \sh: I guess you want me to write up some summary of yesterday's one?
<shawarma> ajmitch: I wasn't able to attend, so I've just read the logs now.. The only thing I didn't fully understand was the ${misc:Depends} thing..
<ajmitch> because I didn't explain it
<ajmitch> I did give a reference to the man page which explains some of the substitution
<ajmitch> and the debhelper tools are free to put in their own substvars like misc:Depends
<shawarma> Do you have any good examples of a package that uses it?
<ajmitch> eh dh_clideps fills in ${cli:Depends}
<shawarma> ok.
<\sh> ajmitch: if you can arrange it, would be cool
<ajmitch> sigh, more typing :)
<\sh> ajmitch: in the next couple of days..I will have more troubles then ever to find a new job
<sivang> ajmitch, \sh : are you talking about sat's lesson?
<\sh> sivang: yes
<ajmitch> \sh: why in the next couple of days?
<ajmitch>  http://www.acc.umu.se/~maswan/2005-12-10/2gbit-freesoftware.html
<ajmitch> sigh
<ajmitch> didn't mean to bump mouse button :)
<sivang> \sh: why in the next couple of days?
<\sh> ajmitch: because when I don't find a new job in the next couple of days...I'm fcked in january..
<ajmitch> ah :(
<sivang> \sh: germen work rules?
* ajmitch was very tempted to go back to uni next year & do electronics
<\sh> sivang: i don't get any unemployment money because I resigned
<sivang> \sh: ah right, as well here :-(
<sivang> \sh: ogra told me something about it when he resiged
<\sh> sivang: for 3 months...I don't have any savings, and my ex-wife and son wants to live as well
<ajmitch> she's relying on your money?
<\sh> ajmitch: sure..she cares about the little one
<\sh> ajmitch: but anyways..I will do whatever job...even cleaning the toilets if I have to
<sivang> \sh: what about the linkedin service? I saw you had quite some few connections, did you start getting inquiries from there? (I should finish setting up my profiles there)
<\sh> sivang: nope...but I didn't search which I will do the upcoming week
<shawarma> This is sooo weird. Does anyone have any bright ideas about what could possibly cause dpkg-buildpackage to not generate a .changes file?
* sivang stares at shawarma cluelessly
<sivang> \sh: it really looks good. and you have quite some resume, I think you will not stay unemplyed for long. I'm holding my fingers for you.
<lifeless> shawarma: what are your options ?
<shawarma> lifeless: dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -S -sa -ke8bda4e3
<shawarma> lifeless: nothing fancy. That's what I always do.
<lifeless> strange.
<shawarma> very
<lifeless> what exit code are you getting ?
<shawarma> good question.
<shawarma> 2 sec.
<shawarma> 2.
<shawarma> damn.
<shawarma> gpg moans abut gpg-agent not being available, but that's nothing new.
<shawarma> lifeless: wtf... I started gpg-agent and now it works. Weirdness.
<shawarma> lifeless: Well, thanks for the pointer. Great stuff! :-)
<\sh> shawarma: drop gpg-agent :)
<\sh> shawarma: vi ~/.gnupg/gpg.conf remove use-agent :)
<shawarma> \sh: Good idea. Thanks!
<shawarma> W00t! That did the trick.
<JohnnyMast> ubuntu can mount 300gig usb disks ?
<shawarma> JohnnyMast: I don't see why not..
<JohnnyMast> kk ty
<bmonty> so how do I open a bug in malone if it doesn't think the package exists?
<crimsun> you /join #launchpad and ask them to add the source package to the selection
<bmonty> crimsun: thanks
<Riddell> raphink: you spoke of me?
<Hieronymus> bmonty: you coud file a bug on launchpad I think, it's somewhere in a wiki/FAQ
<JohnnyMast> any reviewers alive and kicking and not drinking willing to look @ a revu?
* ajmitch is alive & kicking
<ajmitch> but I'm busy at work
<bmonty> I need to get sistpoty to give me reviewer access to REVU
<ajmitch> bmonty: I can do that
<bmonty> ok, do you need anything from me for that?
<ajmitch> yes, email that you use there
<bmonty> ajmitch: bmontgom@montynet.org
<ajmitch> bmonty: ok, test that now
<bmonty> ajmitch: works, thanks
<bmonty> JohnnyMast: which package?
<JohnnyMast> ttb
<JohnnyMast> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1123
<bmonty> k, I'll check it out
<JohnnyMast> thanks man !
<JohnnyMast> i own you like a lot
<ajmitch> first thing, why is it versioned at -1ubuntu1?
<JohnnyMast> ttb ?
<ajmitch> why is the build/ dir still in the upload?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> why do you still have the unnecessary, commented out parts in debian/rules
<JohnnyMast> because thats the upstream release version
<ajmitch> no
<JohnnyMast> yes it is
<ajmitch> if this package is not in debian, you do not version it with -1ubuntu1
<ajmitch> it is -0ubuntu1
<jabra> what is the fastest way to determine if a machien is running ubuntu. I am writting a script.
<JohnnyMast> yes but
<sivang> jabra: /etc/lsb-release
<JohnnyMast> how can i *** with the developers version ?
<jabra> cool thanks
<JohnnyMast> he released this version
<JohnnyMast> before it came to ubuntu
<ajmitch> he released what?
<ajmitch> oh dear
<jabra> exactly wat I needed
<JohnnyMast> -1
<ajmitch> it's not in debian, still
<ajmitch> and the packaging needs cleaned up
<JohnnyMast> shit ur wrong
<bmonty> you should also build-depend on python-2.4
<JohnnyMast> ask me
<ajmitch> does it need to be architecture: any?
<JohnnyMast> JohnnyMast are you drunk ?
* ajmitch gives up on reviewing this
<JohnnyMast> ajmitch yep
<JohnnyMast> ajmitch dont feel bad for kicking my ass :)
<ajmitch> no, you just didn't want to listen :)
<JohnnyMast> i do
<JohnnyMast>  was just wrong
<JohnnyMast> i tought he released -1 but i just checked and i was wrong
<ajmitch> "< JohnnyMast> shit ur wrong" doesn't help
<ajmitch> the description field is meant to be 2 parts
<ajmitch> not one paragraph that spills off the first line
<ajmitch> it's a short & a long description
<JohnnyMast> sorry aj but i had that in my head
<JohnnyMast> i tought he released -1 so im sorry
<JohnnyMast> let me c the description field
<ajmitch> if he had, you should have kept it in debian/changelog
<JohnnyMast> ajmitch you mean the description field sepperated by a '.'  in control ?
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> Description: here goes a short description
<ajmitch> the long description is on the following lines
<JohnnyMast> i never knew that
<ajmitch> it's in the docs ;)
<JohnnyMast> i see now when i read the kiwi controle file
<JohnnyMast> yeah you right
<JohnnyMast> ok i do enum that into my todo file
<JohnnyMast> any more bugs  ajmitch ?
<ajmitch> I suggest you clean up debian/rules, removing things that aren't needed
<JohnnyMast> bufs/flaws
<JohnnyMast> any sugestions ?
<JohnnyMast> i tought i removed the comments
<ajmitch> since you should be able to say what each of the dh_* commands do, even if only briefly ;)
<ajmitch> you don't even need a configure rule, for one..
<ajmitch> considering that it's only touching a file
<JohnnyMast> ok now im here with a question since the changelog versioning is wrong
<JohnnyMast> this means i cant build a new version
<bmonty> why not?
<JohnnyMast> so i dont use dch
<JohnnyMast> because it would totaly corrupt the versioning
<bmonty> manually edit the changelog and make it the version you want
<JohnnyMast> yes that what i mean
<JohnnyMast> i cant use dch now
<JohnnyMast> because it increases the number
<bmonty> so use your favorite editor and correct the version
<ajmitch> JohnnyMast: it would be nice if the package built in pbuilder
<JohnnyMast> yes pico ofcource
<ajmitch> since using ../setup.py is wrong
<ajmitch> http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/ttb-0512110820/ttb_0.9.4-1ubuntu1.buildlog
<JohnnyMast> thanks this stuff is usefull for me
<JohnnyMast> but its allowed to inport a lower version then the one i did upload ?
<bmonty> JohnnyMast: if ajmitch likes your package, you have a good package :)
<JohnnyMast> it doest give problems ?
<JohnnyMast> bmonty hehe i hope so
<bmonty> you can upload it
<bmonty> REVU will use the latest package you upload
<JohnnyMast> so 2 fixes have to be made now
<JohnnyMast> well 3
<JohnnyMast> the dh_ stuff the versioning and the pbuilder path to setup.py
<lfittl> ajmitch / bmonty: Could you do a quick review of http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1112 ?
<bmonty> hey sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi bmonty
<lfittl> dholbach: ping
<dholbach> lfittl: pong
<lfittl> ajmitch & bmonty: thanks for reviewing :)
<sistpoty> ping Fuddl
<Fuddl> pong sistpoty
<Fuddl> what's up?
<sistpoty> Fuddl: I just took a look at nexuiz..
<sistpoty> Fuddl: please use dapper as target... and include the short paragraph from gpl in debian/copyright
<sistpoty> Fuddl: otherwise it rulez!
<Fuddl> sistpoty: yepp i'm sorry, that's an outstanding "bug" for some weeks. /me feels ashamed :/
<sistpoty> Fuddl: don't be ashamed of your really good packaging skills ;)
<ajmitch> lfittl: not that I really did any reviewing..
<lfittl> ajmitch: then thanks for advocating it ;)
<Fuddl> sistpoty: in fact i know these problems for more than two weeks :/
<sistpoty> hehe
<Fuddl> sistpoty: i'll take care of that tomorrow
<sistpoty> cool
<lfittl> ajmitch: right sry, only bmonty advocated it :/
<lfittl> ajmitch: sry ;)
* ajmitch took a quick look, but still had some questions.. like why there is no .so link in the -dev package
<lfittl> what kind of .so link do you mean?
<ajmitch> a symlink
<ajmitch> .so goes in -dev
<ajmitch> .so.X goes in the library package
<Fuddl> sistpoty: did you play a match on the web? ;)
<sistpoty> Fuddl: with nexuiz? no, my box is a little bit too slow for it :(
<Fuddl> sistpoty: d'oh! i hope someone else would share my addiction ;)
<Fuddl> s/hope/hoped
<sistpoty> hehe, but if it comes to q3, I'm on ;) (as soon as I get gl back working with dapper dist-upgrade from today)
<lfittl_> ajmitch: sry kernel panic happened, again, why should there be a .so symlink in the -dev package?
<Fuddl> sistpoty: did you try to set all graphic features to lower and/or minimum level?
<sistpoty> Fuddl: I tried once with an older version... and even setting to lowest my box is still too slow (duron 1300)
<ajmitch> lfittl: because that's how every other lib package does it? :)
<lfittl> ajmitch: where is this symlink placed?
<Fuddl> sistpoty: oh... but cpu power isn't the most important thing. what matters is setting all the "realtime lights" to off
<ajmitch> 2. -dev package
<ajmitch> -dev package should contain the development symlink used when linking, static libraries, and header files, and if they exist, package configuration scripts.
<ajmitch> lfittl: in /usr/lib, just like the others
<sistpoty> Fuddl: ah, thx... will try that
<ajmitch> usr/lib/*.so development linkage file, used when other programs are linked with -lxxx
<lfittl> ajmitch: k, will add that one, thanks for your quick review :)
<ajmitch> there may be other issues, but I guess it's already passed by 2 MOTUs
<bmonty> 1.5 MOTUs...I still need practice reviewing packages
<ajmitch> bmonty: well it's been advocated twice, so my opinion doesn't matter much now :)
<lfittl> ajmitch: what is the best way to create this symlink with cdbs?
<ajmitch> man dh_link
<sistpoty> ajmitch, bmonty: there is the possibility to remove advocates... for revu2 we'll have the veto modell, so if you want to veto, you have the means to do so
<lfittl> ajmitch: thanks
<ajmitch> sistpoty: removing advocates is broken
<Fuddl> sistpoty: btw: what do you mean by "include the short paragraph from gpl in debian/copyright"? i hoped it's enought to give a hint to /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL, as it's the license nexuiz is published
<bmonty> sistpoty: yeah, I saw the link to remove advocacy
<ajmitch> sistpoty: and I know about the veto model, I discussed it with siretart at UBZ ;)
<ajmitch> Fuddl: 3 paragraphs of GPL text
<sistpoty> ajmitch: args... will care for the removing :/
<ajmitch> sistpoty: remove advocacy on waili & xmorph, please
<sistpoty> ajmitch: I'll fix the remove advocacy stuff  now ;)
<Fuddl> ajmitch: i'm sorry, i don't get the point. nexuiz is gpl'ed, so why wasting disc space, by copying from the already installed license text?
<lifeless> ajmitch: mmm, lots of debian packages already just incorporate the text by reference
<lifeless> ajmitch: if you mean debian.copyright
<ajmitch> lifeless: sure, but that's certainly not suggested
<sistpoty> it may have to do s.th. with dh_make templates
<lifeless> ajmitch: I'm just wondering if I missed a policy update
<lifeless> cause I thought it was de riguer
<ajmitch> http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2005/01/msg00496.html
<ajmitch> not in policy
<ajmitch> just something strongly suggested where you match what the source has
<lifeless> heh
<lifeless> *IF* the source has such a statement
<lifeless> rather than just dropping 'COPYING' in the treee
<ajmitch> certainly
<ajmitch> not the whole thing
<Fuddl> k, k, i'll give my very best ;)
<ajmitch> dholbach: kiwi has issues ;)
<ajmitch> why have both http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/kiwi-0512011200/kiwi-1.9.2/rules
<ajmitch> and http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/kiwi-0512011200/kiwi-1.9.2/debian/rules
<ajmitch> since /rules shouldn't be needed :)
<dholbach> ?
<dholbach> oh i see
<dholbach> :)
<dholbach> i think i fixed it in the actual upload
<ajmitch> so why wasn't it archived?
<dholbach> i think i archived all my stuff
<dholbach> hrm
* sistpoty is playing on the live version of revu... lalalala
* ajmitch archives it anyway
<hub_> sorry guy I have to catchup on my packaging
<ajmitch> hey hub_
* raphink has got a strong headache and won't stay long :(
<bmonty> hmm...kshutdown package from debian won't build on ubuntu
<sistpoty> ajmitch: revu-admins can now remove any advocates, I just removed waili
<bmonty> only change i made is merging the ubuntu changelog and adding a patch
<raphink> oh nice sistpoty
<sistpoty> hehe, this time I managed to do a fix w.o. anybody noticing downtimes :)
<raphink> sistpoty: could you remove a few more ? like xmorph
<sistpoty> xmorph removed
<hub_> xmorph?
<raphink> ok
<hub_> what is the issue?
<raphink> the issue is that it was auto-advocated ;)
<hub_> ah
<hub_> ok
<raphink> so just removing the advocacy added by the packager himself ;)
<ajmitch> hub_: I'd love to hear more of your thoughts on opensync, etc :)
<lifeless> did someone say opensyn ?
<ajmitch> lifeless: yes, hub_ has been blogging about syncing lately
<hub_> ajmitch: yeah
* ajmitch has to head out now, sadly
<lifeless> sweet
<sistpoty> cya ajmitch
<hub_> ajmitch: have fun
<lifeless> use my package ;)
<hub_> lifeless: opensync packaged?
#ubuntu-motu 2005-12-17
<hub_> lifeless: in dapper or still on revu?
<lifeless> neither
<hub_> ah
<hub_> where?
<lifeless> I have the package as source on people.ubuntu.com
<lifeless> http://people.ubuntu.com/~robertc/
<lifeless> opensync/upstream is a bzr branch of the upstream [effectively the upstream tarball] 
<lifeless> theres also a debian patched version and the debian control dir
<hub_> what about upload to universe?
<lifeless> its not quite ready.
<lifeless> I'll upload it to sid next weekend I think
<hub_> okay
<lifeless> I can't upload to universe, I'm not a MOTU
<hub_> well if it is in Debian it will make its way :-)
<hub_> I'll just apt-get source it :-)
<hub_> I thought about packaging it, but I got stuck in various other things
<hub_> unrelated
<dholbach> damn, now i did a secret key combo and my kvm switch worked, i need to find out which one it was
<lifeless> hub_: so me, ajmitch and azeem are teaming up to package the lot
<lifeless> if you have spare cycles, the more the merrier
<hub_> dholbach: on mine it is "scroll lock" twice and a number (not on the keypad)
<hub_> lifeless: spare cycle? not currently
<hub_> lifeless: but I'll see what I can do
<hub_> and half borked latpop does not help
* dholbach resorts to the crude method and steps on the button
<hub_> dholbach: I'd say RTFM
<hub_> :-)
<dholbach> hub_: i did - it just not seems to behave the way the manual says
<dholbach> but it robust... i think it'll work fine with stepping-on-it--treatment
<lfittl> bmonty: Could you review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1127 again?
<bmonty> lfittl: sure
<bmonty> sistpoty: can you mark filelight as fixed on the REVU2 page?
<dholbach> good night guys, i'm off to bed
<bmonty> bye dholbach
<lfittl> gn8 dholbach
<dholbach> *wave*
<sistpoty> gn8 dholbach
<dholbach> and somebody review seveas' package :)
<dholbach> *wave*
<Seveas> yeah, somebody review my package :)
<sistpoty> bmonty: done
<bmonty> sistpoty: thanks
<sistpoty> np
<LaserJock_> could I get a couple of MOTUs to review plotdrop? It will be quick and painless, I promise
* ajmitch returns
<raphink> some of my packages on REVU have also been advocated once already and just need a check
<raphink> wb ajmitch
<sistpoty> I'm off to bed now...
<raphink> ajmitch: would you have some time to review packages?
<sistpoty> good night everyone
<raphink> night sistpoty
<ajmitch> raphink: maybe
<raphink> :)
<raphink> ajmitch: there's a large choice on REVU :) easiest ones might be the ones that have already been advocated :)
<raphink> (not very sure)
<lfittl> ajmitch: Do you have some time to review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1127 again? (I just need that one to know how to do library packaging correctly)
<raphink> I'll review it lfittl if you want
<lfittl> raphink: that would be nice :)
<raphink> so ajmitch can review my packages
<raphink> unless you can review them :)
<lfittl> I am no reviewer (yet) ;)
* ajmitch is at work, so clamoring for reviews isn't going to be very effective
<ajmitch> since usually I'd just do it sometime when I'm at home :)
<raphink> lfittl: do you know about debian/*.install files ?
<lfittl> raphink: sure, but like putting things in debian/rules if possible ;)
<raphink> ok
<raphink> it's just that I think using debian/*.install is easier for libs
<raphink> for many things, but esp. for libs ;)
<raphink> as you generate different files for different packages
<raphink> but I understand if you don't like to use them :)
<lfittl> good :)
<raphink> dh_install src/libcafix.so.0.1.1 /usr/lib <-- you don't build the lib?
<raphink> I might be wrong, but I think debhelper+cdbs usually builds the libs in debian/tmp/
<lfittl> bad upstream makefile that puts the built lib in src/ ;)
<raphink> not in src/
<raphink> oh ok
<raphink> that's a bit surprising but as long as it has an explanation ;)
<raphink> did you report this to upstream?
<lfittl> it seems upstream is almost dead
<raphink> oh :(
<lfittl> last release was 3 years ago ;)
<raphink> ouch
<raphink> hopefully releasing the package in Ubuntu might get people to work on it
<raphink> never know
<lfittl> maybe :)
<ajmitch> yes, putting anything straight into /usr in packaging is a recipe for disaster
* ajmitch should have commented on that one earlier
<raphink> what do you mean ajmitch ?
<raphink> what is put straight in /usr?
<ajmitch> just saying that if you did it that way
<ajmitch> dh_install should prepend the appropriate directory
<ajmitch> iirc
<raphink> ajmitch: I just meant that the source is usually built in debian/tmp
<raphink> so that the lib is found in debian/tmp/usr/lib
<raphink> but in that case it's built in src/
<ajmitch> no, the source is built in place
<ajmitch> and installed into debian/tmp using the DESTDIR argument
<ajmitch> which this makefile happily ignores
<raphink> which is usually automatic, using debhelper+cdbs, no?
<ajmitch> mkdir -p /usr/lib
<ajmitch> /usr/bin/install -c -m 644 include/cafix.h /usr/include/
<ajmitch> /usr/bin/install -c -m 644 src/libcafix.a /usr/lib
<ajmitch> /usr/bin/install -c -m 755 src/libcafix.so.0.1.1 /usr/lib/
<raphink> ok
<ajmitch> that looks to really not be healthy
<raphink> ic
<ajmitch> since it's installing files outside of the packaging
<ajmitch> potentially overwriting the files installed on the system, etc
<ajmitch> and generally messing things up
<lfittl> ajmitch: should I patch the Makefile?
<lfittl> or just disable the autotools install target
<ajmitch> certainly patch the makefile
* ajmitch wishes for the veto option on revu :)
<lfittl> anything else you found? :)
* ajmitch doesn't have time to find much :)
<lfittl> k, I will patch the makefile tomorrow, just need to get some sleep now..
<ajmitch> I think I need to write a check for packages touching files outside the build area
<lfittl> good idea :)
<ajmitch> and throw up big red warnings
<lfittl> gn8 everybody
<ajmitch> night
<ajmitch> maybe take a manifest of files in the chroot after dependencies are installed..
<ajmitch> and then check the list once the package is built..
<seth_k|lappy> ajmitch, I think https://launchpad.net/bugs/5577 is FINALLY ready :P I sure need to get faster / better at those.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #5577: noteedit: merge new debian version In: noteedit (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: PendingUpload https://launchpad.net/bugs/5577
<whiprush> ajmitch: did someone take logs of the MOTU-school thing?
<ajmitch> whiprush: yes
* Kyral wonders if any MOTU can give him one more vote on EasyChem
<ajmitch> http://netz.smurf.noris.de/logs/freenode/
<whiprush> thanks.
<ajmitch> whiprush: http://netz.smurf.noris.de/logs/freenode/2005/12/10/%23ubuntu-motu-school.log to be more precise
<whiprush> found it
<whiprush> thanks much
<whiprush> how was the turnout?
<ajmitch> and then you can read up on my incoherent caffeine-deprived ramblings
<whiprush> reading now
<whiprush> heh
<ajmitch> 6am *pain*
<whiprush> heh
<Kyral> Welcome to mine. 8 AM Final Exam tomorrow
<ajmitch> considering that I went to bed at about 2:30, I did well I think
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> indeed
<Kyral> oh, the only reason I'm pushing EasyChem right now is because I was handed the World file from the COSI Lab Build and told that if I can find all of them in Ubuntu, then next semester we will put Ubuntu as the lab build
<Kyral> and EasyChem is on the list lol
<ajmitch> does it work without crashing all over the place?
<Kyral> Yup
<Kyral> I corrected all the problems slomo_ noted
<raphink> grrr
* raphink got a ticket because policemen can't read dates properly 
<raphink> they'll have to hire policemen who can at least read...
<ajmitch> Kyral: are there actually examples to install?
<Kyral> ajmitch: You mean .debs?
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> examples
* Kyral blinks
<Kyral> I don't think I follow
<ajmitch> you use dh_installexamples
<Kyral> I do?
<ajmitch> yep
<Kyral> hmm so I do lol
<ajmitch> and I don't know if anything gets into /usr/share/doc/easychem/examples
<Kyral> I didn't notice that
<ajmitch> let me do a test build on tiber
<Kyral> Yah I was about to mention that
<Kyral> I'll remove those and reupload, or do you wanna do the test first?
<ajmitch> running a test build now
* raphink is going to bed
<ajmitch> apart from that it looks ok
<raphink> bye
<ajmitch> but this is a 2 minute look ;)
<Kyral> lol
<ajmitch> does the makefile actually have an install target?
<Kyral> in the orig source, no. But I patch one in and the patch is in debian/patches
<ajmitch> ah right
* ajmitch was looking at the files as they were, unpatched
<Kyral> This was the reason for the first MOTU-School lol
<ajmitch> yeah, not terribly tidy, having a prefix with /usr/bin
<ajmitch> just because PREFIX is meant to be used for other files apart from the executable
<Kyral> isn't that where it is supposed to go?
<ajmitch> sure
<ajmitch> but you'd usually set PREFIX=/usr
<Kyral> oh
<ajmitch> and install into ${DESTDIR}/${PREFIX}/bin
<Kyral> ah
<ajmitch> ( not {, iirc
<ajmitch> but I guess it's alright as it is, just not optimal :)
<ajmitch> how useful is it to install a TODO in french? ;)
<Kyral> the upstream author is french ;P
<ajmitch> I know, but you mentioned TODO in debian/docs
<Kyral> and I don't know enough french to even TRY to translate it
<ajmitch> it's fairly readable
<ajmitch> but I'm not sure of its value
<ajmitch> I suppose you can keep it :)
<Kyral> I could register it on LP (after talking with upstream) and use Rosetta :D
* ajmitch doesn't like the patch system you use ;)
* Kyral falls down
<bmonty> can someone help with figuring out why this build fails?  http://www.montynet.org/ubuntu/kshutdown-buildlog.txt
<bmonty> supposedly this builds on debian, but even the debian package fails in the same way
<Kyral> blame \sh or whoever taught the first MOTUSchool lol. Its the only patch method I know
<ajmitch> bmonty: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=342879
<ajmitch> make & cdbs have decided to have a disagreement
<ajmitch> Kyral: it's adequate for simple tasks
<Kyral> I smell another MOTUSchool ;P
<bmonty> ajmitch: looking...
<ajmitch> Kyral: I think we were going to do a followup to talk about a better system (stamp per patch, using --dry-run first)
<bmonty> ajmitch: ok, so this is a cdbs bug with no fix yet?
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> only fix so far is downgrade make
<bmonty> I guess this merge will wait until it gets fixed then :(
<ajmitch> sorry
<ajmitch> it affects a lot ofpackages
<bmonty> yeah, so the fix shouldn't be long in coming :)
* Kyral sighs
<Kyral> So whats the verdict mitch lol
<ajmitch> Kyral: I'd give it at least 4 out of 10 ;)
* Kyral falls down
* ajmitch might advocate once he's tested on his dapper box
<ajmitch> I like to check that a program runs before I give it a tick
<Kyral> It runs on Dapper lol. I know because I tested it before I uploaded
<ajmitch> s/runs/runs on my box/ :)
<Kyral> lol
<bmonty> doko: ping
<seth_k|lappy> Kyral, french? I can translate it for you, I speak French
<doko> bmonty: pong
<bmonty> doko: I have a question on the gcc-snapshot package, it is on the merge list
<Kyral> seth_k|lappy: lol shall we get it to Universe first? Then you can just do a NMU on it
<seth_k|lappy> Kyral, alright
<bmonty> doko: do you sync that package when debian updates it?
<bmonty> or I should say, when you update it in debian :)
<doko> bmonty: no, that won't work. what you should do: unpack it, run "debian/rules control", then package it as -ubuntu1, then upload
<bmonty> doko: ok
<bmonty> doko: out of curiosity, how come it can't be a sync?
<Kyral> hmm, how do I figure out what bootservices are going off lol
<doko> bmonty: differing build dependencies
<Kyral> hmm, I don't need mdadm if I don't use RAID right?
<Kyral> Okay here goes nothing
<Kyral> I really wish that fsck.reiserfs didn't run at EVERY boot
<bmonty> hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi bmonty
<LaserJock> bmonty: how's the little guy?
<bmonty> LaserJock: lots of fun, he is starting to recognize me and smile
<bmonty> almost 2 months old!
<LaserJock> cool
<bmonty> LaserJock: you want to see some pics of him?
<LaserJock> bmonty: sure, love to
<LaserJock> bmonty: are you up for a REVU review?
<bmonty> LaserJock: not really, I'm finishing up a merge and then I'm probably going to bed, sorry
<LaserJock> bmonty: np
<ajmitch> hi bmonty, LaserJock
<bmonty> hey ajmitch
<LaserJock> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> LaserJock: what's the package?
<LaserJock> plotdrop
<ajmitch> just uploaded?
<ajmitch> ah no, I see it
<ajmitch> hm, interesting pbuilder output
<LaserJock> really?
<ajmitch> you were asking about why -stamp rules were used?
<nmsa> hello, good morning
<LaserJock> yeah
<bmonty> hi nmsa
<nmsa> I would like to contribute and maintain a package in ubuntu, just that I'm to new in this domain, I would like something simple @ the begining, maybe help someone at start, can I have some directions pls
<ajmitch> I saw patch being called twice, i think :)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: want to gently introduce nmsa to the wonderful world of MOTU for me? :)
<LaserJock> ajmitch: only if you help me with -stamps later ;-)
<ajmitch> sure..
* ajmitch points LaserJock to his small tutorial ;)
<LaserJock> nmsa: could you join #ubuntu-motu-school ?
<nmsa> I'm on since ajmitch made the presentation
<LaserJock> ajmitch: did you see anything else besides the -stamp thing or did you not get past that?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: sorry, a little busy :)
<ajmitch> overall it looked ok, nothing obvious jumped out at me
<ajmitch> bmonty: cdbs breakage affects most of the gnome packages & kde, so I think we'll get a fix real soon
<bmonty> yeah, I've been working on merges and without trying I've already run into three
<minghua> the bug about make breaking CDBS?
<ajmitch> minghua: yep
* ajmitch needs a large spiked club to deal with users
<ajmitch> I didn't really need told that there's a new f-spot release by someone filing a bug
<bmonty> is there a way that I can request that a buildd try to build a package?
<ajmitch> yes
<bmonty> ajmitch: mark it wont-fix
<ajmitch> you bug lamont or infinity :)
<ajmitch> hah
<ajmitch> no, I mark it pending
<bmonty> lamont: ping
<LaserJock> ajmitch: does http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/5642 look better?
<bmonty> so if I register a project on launchpad for my python app do you like ubuntu-spy or ump (for ubuntu mirror profiler) or something else?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: at a glance, I think it's better
<LaserJock> bmonty: how about Super Wicked Fast Ubuntu Mirror Finder (swfumf) ?
<bmonty> too hard to type :)
<LaserJock> oh well, I'm no good with names
<bmonty> the debian prog is called apt-spy, but I think ubuntu-spy implies that canonical is pulling a big brother :)
<ajmitch> you mean they're not?
<ajmitch> oh darn, I was hoping they would... ;)
<ajmitch> since I'm sure that mark cares *lots* about reading everyone's email ;)
<bmonty> yeah I'm sure he does
<bmonty> slashdot quote: "I for one welcome our canonical overlords"
* bmonty registers a permanent vote for LaserJock to be an MOTU
<ajmitch> ok, bbiab
<LaserJock> bmonty: thanks for the support, I just hope to live up to the MOTU
<bmonty> :)
<bmonty> goodnight everyone
<LaserJock> ajmitch: ok, I uploaded a new -stampified version ;-)
* StevenK starts being naughty and IRC'ing from work.
<ajmitch> ooh, vrms merge
<StevenK> Yup.
<StevenK> vrms 1.11 can be synced
<ajmitch> make sure it works with restricted & multiverse, otherwise you might get critical bugs filed ;)
<ajmitch> see 3704
<StevenK> root@broken:/# dpkg -l vrms | tail -n 1
<StevenK> ii  vrms           1.11           virtual Richard M. Stallman
<StevenK> root@broken:/# vrms Non-free packages installed on broken
<StevenK> abs-guide                 The Advanced Bash-Scripting Guide
<StevenK> That do you?
<StevenK> I read the source and the patch, and they both looked fine, but I thought I'd humour you.
<ajmitch> sure
<ajmitch> I just found it funny that someone would file a critical bug on vrms
<StevenK> Yeah
<StevenK> ajmitch: Request a sync, since you cared enough to point out the bug? :-)
<ajmitch> since it didn't pick up the 'immoral' software
<StevenK> ajmitch: Ta
<ajmitch> no idea why we got 1.10-0ubuntu1
<ajmitch> it shoul have at least been 1.10ubuntu1
* StevenK nods.
<StevenK> Martin Meredith is the person to ask.
<ajmitch> he hasn't been around irc much lately
<ajmitch> I've hardly seen him since ubz
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> brown.freenode.net
<sivang_away> morning all
<crimsun> 'morning sivang
<sivang_away> hey crimsun
<sivang_away> crimsun: you have any idea what this is about:
<sivang_away> 07:57 [freenode]  -!- sivang #launchpad Cannot send to channel so cannot change nicks
<sivang_away> I've never had that before.
<crimsun> sivang_away: ah, that's probably due to the mess freenode was in this weekend. Try reconnecting.
<sivang_away> I see, ok, thanks/
<sivang> crimsun: ok, seems that helped :)
<crimsun> :)
<siretart> morning
<crimsun> 'morning siretart
<dholbach> good morning motus
<crimsun> re dholbach
<dholbach> hey crimsun, koke :)
<jsgotangco> good morning o great one dholbach
<dholbach> haha
<koke> hi all!
<koke> today is below zero here :)
<koke> what a cool morning
<jsgotangco> that's nice indeed
<minghua> anybody using piuparts?  I wonder if piuparts can use a local directory for apt cache as pbuilder does
<ajmitch> hey people
* ajmitch waves to dholbach, jsgotangco, koke, minghua ;)
<minghua> hi ajmitch
<crimsun> 3.80+3.81.b3.3.80-1ubuntu1. wow.
<ajmitch> impressive
<ajmitch> make?
<crimsun> yep
<jsgotangco> hello professor ajmitch
<ajmitch> :P
<sivang> crimsun: it doesn't work too good for some of the pakcages I tried building
<crimsun> sivang: yeah, infinity just reverted it, hence the nasty versioning :)
<siretart> huhu dholbach
<Tonio_> hieveryone
<siretart> huhu Tonio_
<ajmitch> siretart: I was thinking today - we don't really need to setup a separate chroot system apart from pbuilder
<ajmitch> since with hooks & multiple configs we should be able to do what we need
<siretart> ajmitch: there was a plan to use sbuild on tiber
<siretart> which doesn't work without a chroot
<ajmitch> sure, you could use sbuild for building
<ajmitch> but pbuilder & piuparts for testing packages
<siretart> you right, we could rely on pbuilder and piuparts in the beginning
<siretart> and add another sbuild 'test' later
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> we want to write as little as possible to start with :)
<siretart> okay
<siretart> SloMoSnail: ping
<raphink> hi siretart
<raphink> is it ok to package a program from binary and include the source in the package ?
<raphink> :s
<siretart> raphink: err, sounds strange. why should the user want the source?
<siretart> or better, would?
<raphink> well I mean
<raphink> there's an app I'd like to package
<raphink> but there's no Makefile in it
<raphink> instead
<raphink> the binary is provided with a install.sh script and the source tarball
<raphink> that contains no Makefile as I said
<raphink> i don't know how to create Makefiles from scratch
<siretart> ah, so your upstream consists of several files, right?
<azeem> raphink: looks like a great opportunity to learn about Makefiles
<azeem> raphink: automake is pretty easy to learn, apt-get install autobook
<raphink> my upstream consists of a tarball that contains the bin, an install script and the source tarball with no Makefil
<raphink> ok
<raphink> I tried to open the dir as an existing project in Kdevelop
<raphink> but it doesn't build
<azeem> those hardcore, bare-bone projects probably don't play well with a graphical IDE
<lathiat> dont necesarily need to use make files to build
<lathiat> how is it normally built?
<raphink> azeem: it's a pretty advanced project, provided by my ISP
<raphink> it's in cpp with qt I believe
<azeem> oh
<azeem> isn't there a README or something in the source tree?
<raphink> it doesn't say how to build
<raphink> well I believe it might depend on other libs
<raphink> but I don't know which ones
<raphink> I have to look in the files ;)
<lathiat> pbuilder is good for that
<raphink> for what?
<lathiat> making sure you get all the deps
<lathiat> it builds inside a clean install
<lathiat> and just installs the deps you specify in build-depends
<raphink> sure I know that
<lathiat> just some fun trial and error and off you go
<lathiat> :)
<raphink> my problem is to know what the deps are so far lathiat ;)
<lathiat> tseng: how goes the RoR hacking?
<tseng> lathiat: http://headrush.typepad.com/creating_passionate_users/2005/12/have_you_update.html
<lathiat> heh
<zakame> evening all! :D
<sivang> evening zakame
<zakame> hi sivang , mhz ! :-)
<mhz> hey zakame
<zakame> heya \sh :-)
<raphink> keydevelop3 can't be used to build apps with qt4 ?
<Amaranth> probably not
<\sh> moins
<eth42> is MOTU also MOTM or is multiverse covered somewhere else?
<zakame> eth42: the launchpad group ubuntu-dev covers both universe and multiverse
<eth42> zakame: erm, what's exactly is a launchpad group?
<tseng> a group of people on launchpad.net
<zakame> eth42: https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-dev/ :-)
<eth42> thanks :-)
<eth42> I noticed that the faac package comes without mp4 support (I suppose it was simply not activated when it was compiled). Is there any reason for this?
<tseng> youd have to ask SloMoSnail (slomo) another day
<tseng> i dont think he is here
<eth42> tseng: ok
<siretart> eth42: you may want to check the buildlogs
<eth42> siretart: how do I do that? (sorry for being ignorant on this but I have no experience with deb but only rpm)
<siretart> eth42: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/f/faac/
<eth42> thanks :-)
<siretart> no problem, where are here to help
<siretart> was just searching for the correct buildlog
<siretart> eth42: please help me to remember, what lib/software is needed for mp4 support?
<eth42> well, according to the buildlog it seems to be mp4v2 which is missing
<eth42> siretart: at least this is my understanding of the line checking for MP4MetadataDelete in -lmp4v2... no
<siretart> eth42: hm. you should really talk to sebastian (slomo). he did a lot of work on the package
<eth42> is there an easy way to just recompile the package? (since I have the library installed from source)
<eth42> I tried "apt-get source faac --compile" but that failed since the source package could not be found.
<Hieronymus> eth42: apt-get -b source packagename
<Hieronymus> hmm, that should be the same. Weird
<eth42> hehe
<eth42> :-)
<ogra> you need multiverse deb-src in your sources.list
<Hieronymus> eth42: if you apt-cache search faad or apt-cache info faad, you'll see no package
<eth42> I can't find a source repository for multiverse in synaptic. what am i missing? mhh
<zakame> eth42: err deb-src on multiverse?
<eth42> Hieronymus: apt-cache search faad shows 4 packages, faac 3
<eth42> zakame, for some reason there was no deb-src multiverse line in /etc/apt/sources.list only one for universe...
<eth42> I simply added multiverse to that line, and it worked
<raphink> is it ok to remove lots of unuseful things from a source before packaging it ?
<zakame> eth42: good work then
<eth42> but I expected that synaptic would offer this choise as well
<eth42> thanks!
<zakame> raphink: define un-useful :)
<raphink> zakame: I'm packaging a program that is used by my ISP to allow users to play their media files on their TV using the modem
<raphink> the tarball provided by my ISP includes a tarball of VLC
<raphink> at a certain time, this was useful since the hack done to VLC by my ISP was not yet in the VLC trunk
<zakame> raphink: ah... could you build that using the already-packaged vlc then?
<raphink> but now VLC has merged it so it's stupid to distribute vlc together with it
<raphink> sure zakame
<raphink> but then I need totally review the package
<raphink> I mean
<raphink> clean unuseful things
<raphink> obsolete
<raphink> that would have the package be around 12MB instead of 1
<raphink> so I'd need to actually remove two things from the source : the vlc tarball and the source of another app that is now obsolete
<ogra> raphink, as long as you dont change the upstream source (orig.tar.gz) everything is allowed here ;)
<zakame> raphink: ooh! well, make sure it works before removing
<raphink> ogra so I would do that through patches?
<raphink> sure zakame
<ogra> everything as in policy compliant indeed
<raphink> ok
<zakame> raphink: err this is a NEW package right?
<ogra> raphink, for example ... or through the rules file ...
<raphink> that'll still make a very big debdiff
<raphink> zakame: yes it's a new package
<raphink> ogra : like a series of rm in the build section?
<zakame> ogra: but then again, -policy allows a repackaged source, as long there's notice of repackaging :)
<ogra> zakame, yes, but that should be a last resort ...
<ogra> raphink, for example, yes ...
<raphink> from the way the source looks, it might be easier to just take the few required things from it and repackage
<ogra> or just omit the building of parts you dont want ...
<zakame> raphink: or you can convince your good upstream to drop their pre-packaged vlc ;)
<raphink> hmm
<raphink> the good upstream is my ISP
<raphink> and I don't think they mind so much
<zakame> then have them release a new version without the extra stuff
<raphink> mhm
<raphink> I'll see
<jsgotangco> hiya
<eth42> I wonder how the faac deb-src could get compiled if it requests a package libmp4-dev for build which I cannot find for any Ubuntu distribution...
<zakame> er its libmp4v2-dev
<siretart> eth42: if you look in the source package, there is a file called 'debian/control'
<siretart> eth42: in that file, there is a line 'Build-Depends'
<siretart> eth42: this line holds a list of packages which have to be installed to build that package. the autobuilders will install these packages in prior building the package. that installation process is also shown in the buildlogs I pointed you to
<eth42> siretart, yeah I've found such a line in faac_1.24-0.2.dsc
<raphink> hmmm : ogra : the vlc tarball provided by my ISP has been modified quite a lot from the original vlc
<eth42> siretart: how do I start the build after removing the reference to libmp4-dev?
<raphink> there's a 6MB diff
<ogra> raphink, oh, its vlc ?
<raphink> :s
<siretart> eth42: type 'dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc'
<eth42> thanks!
<siretart> the -us -uc is to supress signing the package
<raphink> ogra : yes, my ISP uses VLC for its app. But they provide a modified version of VLC, with 6MB diff, although it works fine with the standard VLC too
<ogra> then i'd rather try to get it in the vlc package we have and let it produce a differently named binary
<ogra> i.e. vlc-webtv-<providername>
<raphink> ogra : well I shall explain better
<ogra> note that we have a target for dapper to aviod and remove duplication ... that should be taken into regard for universe as well where possible
<raphink> ogra : the current vlc already contains lots of modifs from my ISP, and what is useful in this tarball to have the webtv service work is only a bashscript to launch VLC with special options and a folder containing pages to be shown on the TV, programmed in a kind of HTML
<ogra> so aply this to our vlc and make it a new binary package then ...
<zakame> er what bin makes `mkinstalldirs' again?
<raphink> ogra : I should add this to the vlc source package and make it procude a different package from it, that's what you mean?
<raphink> s/procude/produce/
<ogra> yes
<raphink> hmmm
<ogra> make it produce an addon package to vlc, or if necessary a new binary
<ogra> (with different name)
<raphink> why not package it separately and have it depend on VLC?
<siretart> raphink: because we want to avoid duplication
<raphink> nothing would be duplicate siretart
<siretart> raphink: then I didn't get you
<eth42> siretart: thanks for the help -- I could successfully compile faac. But what does the message "dpkg-buildpackage: binary and diff upload (original source NOT included)" mean. Did it upload something?!
<raphink> it's a bit complicate I reckon
<tseng> eth42: it did not
<eth42> ok :-)
<siretart> eth42: that means that you didn't download the source with `apt-get` *G*
<siretart> eth42: seriously
<raphink> siretart: my ISP has worked on modifying VLC to produce the Freeplayer for years. A few years ago, they have released a modified version of VLC that allowed to do so. Then VLC got that diffs in the main trunk.
<siretart> eth42: dpkg-buildpackage (dpkg-source, to be exact) searches for a ../<packagename>_<verision>.orig.tar.gz
<siretart> eth42: if it doesn't exist, you get that message
<eth42> ah, ok
<raphink> siretart: now the service works with the current VLC provided by the VLC package, it just requires a small bash script to launch VLC with options and a folder that contains HTML pages used by the modem to browse the computer from the TV screen.
<siretart> raphink: if it is just a small bash script, why not adding it to the existing vlc package?
<raphink> siretart: still, the tarball provided by the ISP contains a VLC tarball, that is quite different from the one I got with apt-get source
<raphink> siretart: I'll have to modify the vlc package source manually
<raphink> if that's fine, then it's ok ;)
<siretart> raphink: what modification would you need? what could break from that?
<raphink> nothing could break siretart
<raphink> I just need to add a freeplayer/ folder at the root of the vlc package, put the stuff in it
<raphink> and add rules to debian/rules to install all this at the right place
<siretart> raphink: you just said you needed to modfy something, what?
<raphink> so something like /usr/share/freeplayer, with links to /usr/bin
<siretart> raphink: or just the packaging?
<raphink> siretart: I need to _add_ something to the source
<raphink> that's what I mean
<raphink> package source that is
<siretart> raphink: ah, thats fine, just add it to the package :)
<raphink> ok
<raphink> :)
<raphink> siretart: but if someone updates vlc, there's a chance the freeplayer is lost on the way, no?
<siretart> raphink: if you document that in debian/changelog, there should be no problem
<siretart> raphink: because when merging, we look for such changes
<raphink> ok
<raphink> yep
<siretart> raphink: does vlc upstream know about this script? perhaps they could add it to their distribution?
<raphink> siretart: I bet they know about it, since the current vlc was largely modified to work with it
<siretart> well, perhaps it will show up in the next release then.
<zakame> gn8 all :D
<siretart> gn8 zakame
<raphink> I don't think so siretart
<raphink> it's only used by my ISP so far
<raphink> since it works with the modem they build
<siretart> :(
<raphink> heh
<chillywilly> quick question: How would I know if the GD PHP lib that is packaged is the one internal PHP GD lib?
<siretart> chillywilly: you would have to check the buildlogs
<siretart> http://people.ubunut.com/~lamont
<chillywilly> ok
<chillywilly> 404 on that
<siretart> oh
<lamont__> chillywilly: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs
<tseng> alternatively you could look at the configure call in debian/rules in the source package
<tseng> and the build-depends
<chillywilly> yea I did apt-get source before, need to look at the rules file yet
<amoll> hi there, i would like to add a deb package to the Ubuntu repositiory, could you please tell me which person to connect?
<chillywilly> --with-gd=shared,/usr --enable-gd-native-ttf
<siretart> amoll: please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU
<chillywilly> not sure if that buids the "internal" gd lib but I'll rtfm ;)
<siretart> amoll: in short: if you have a new package, you need to show it to us
<siretart> amoll: then we can review and upload it for you to the archive
<raphink> siretart: after adding freeplayer/, I get a very predictable error : unrepresentable changes to source
<siretart> amoll: what package do you have?
<raphink> how can I avoide that?
<tseng> chillywilly: it says shared
<siretart> raphink: you added binary data to the package
<siretart> raphink: don't do that :)
<tseng> chillywilly: iirc the other flag is --with-gd-internal, see ./configure --help
<raphink> where do I add it siretart then?
<tseng> maybe --with-gd=internal
<siretart> raphink: you told before you just want to add a bash script, no? doesn't sound like binary data
<chillywilly> tseng: bah, I should beat someone for requiring the internal gd lib ;)
<raphink> there's a script _and_ a folder containing html, pdf and images
<tseng> chillywilly: eh..?
<siretart> raphink: how big is it?
<tseng> chillywilly: didnt we just say we dont
<raphink> so the issue is with the images and pdf
<raphink> not big
<amoll> a molecular viewer: www.ballview.org
<chillywilly> tseng: my comment was the people wo wrote this PHP app should be beaten for requiring the internal gd lib
<raphink> siretart: the whole directory I added is 248 KB
<chillywilly> who*
<tseng> chillywilly: i see.
<tseng> shared libs are elite
<siretart> raphink: which I'd consider as rather big
<raphink> siretart: the pdf being 158KB
<raphink> the images are very small (about 1kB each)
<siretart> raphink: the problem is that diff cannot represent binary 'changes'
<raphink> yes
<raphink> I understand that
<siretart> raphink: so you would have to workaround by using uuencode/uudecode
<raphink> o_O
<Kyral> amoll: You want that for MOTUScience?
<siretart> raphink: so you rather want to introduce a new package, like mplayer-skins
<raphink> I guess so siretart
<amoll> Kyral: Yes I guess it would fit nicely
<raphink> but then to have it clean I should just repackage the source aswell
<Kyral> amoll: I can't find the license...
<Kyral> amoll: and this http://www.ballview.org/Overview/Download seems to indicate that it wouldn't be GPL compatiable
<raphink> siretart: next problem is that there is no version number on this script... it just calls vlc  with some options
<amoll> Kyral: Well its GPL for the viewer and LGPL for the library
<amoll> Kyral: The text is outdated, sorry...
<Kyral> Okay now stupid question lol, are you upstream by anychance?
<Kyral> upstream == Developer
<Kyral> nm I answered my own question
<Kyral> boy do I feel stupid now
<Kyral> sorry
<azeem> argh, all caps directories
<azeem> argh, a "Do you accept these terms (y/n)?" question when running ./configure
<Kyral> amoll: Add it to wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUScience and we'll look at it when half the team isn't in Final Exams (Next Week ;P)
<Kyral> azeem: whats this?
<ogra> azeem, lol ... the buildd needs AI then :)
<azeem> when you run ./configure, the first thing it does is catting the LGPL boilerplate to stdout and asking you the above question
<azeem> ogra: or dpatch :)
<ogra> hehe
<azeem> dnl   Require the user to accept the license (once)
<azeem> CF_CHECK_LICENSE
<Kyral> azeem: what package (contemplates shutting up lol)
<azeem> Kyral: Ball
<Kyral> ah
<Kyral> so I made an idiot of my self for no reason?
<azeem> Kyral: I didn't get that idiot part at all, sorry =)
<Kyral> meh
* Kyral goes back to watching anime
<Kyral> remind me to scroll up before I start asking questions :P
<Hieronymus> azeem: it asks you to agree to the LGPL?
<azeem> yes
<Hieronymus> azeem: but that's not an EULA but a redistribution license
<azeem> http://www.ballview.org/Gallery <- awesome
<Kyral> indeed
<Kyral> It makes EasyChem look REALLY bad :D
<azeem> EasyChem is a structur editor, not a 3D viewer, no?
<azeem> I haven't followed too much
<Kyral> yah good point
<azeem> Ballview competes with e.g. PyMOL
<Kyral> I dunno, I just package the things
<amoll> Kyral: How do I do this?
<Kyral> amoll: huh?
<amoll> Well it seems you like our pictures ;)
<azeem> amoll: why does the user need to agree to the LGPL when building from source?
<Kyral> How do you do what? (Sorry, a "How do you do..." question sends me into support mode)
<amoll> Good question. The configure script doesnt stem from me
<Kyral> I can't even get to the Source without registering
<amoll> My boss wants to know who is using our software
<azeem> Kyral: I culd
<azeem> eh, could
* Kyral sighs
<azeem> wget http://www.ballview.org/Downloads/Releases/BALL-1.1.tar.gz
<Kyral> Isn't unrestricted access to the source a part of the GPL....
<Kyral> I dunno...
<azeem> Kyral: try the URL
* Kyral sighs
<Hieronymus> Kyral: no
<Hieronymus> but you can just register, download and redistribute
<Kyral> I dunno, my head hurts its Finals week. NO MORE THINKY! ;P
<Hieronymus> unless binaries don't need registration
<IzzyCC> hey guys, where can I go to get help installing php5/mysql5? id rather just pay a few bucks and have it done than get even more frustrated than I am
<IzzyCC> (#ubuntu isnt answering)
<Kyral> If its in the Repos the source would be available through the deb-src lines
<amoll> the binaries of the viewer are available under GPL
<amoll> the library unter LGPL
<Seveas> IzzyCC, if #ubuntu isn't answering, that's no reason to ask in here
<Kyral> Unless we put it in Multiverse
* Kyral sighs
<azeem> amoll: and the source of the viewer?
<azeem> amoll: or is that the library?
<Kyral> I'll take myself out of the convo now
<amoll> azeem: its in the library
<Hieronymus> Kyral: if it's GPL, you can just redistribute, or what are you talking about?
<azeem> ah
<IzzyCC> Seveas i figured there would be more people willing to get some side money that are active here, than there filled with people who are as newbie as me
<azeem> amoll: how can you license the binary different to the source, or did I misunderstand you?
<Seveas> IzzyCC, there are lots of smart people there too, just wait and ask again later
<Kyral> Hieronymus: I mean that it would bypass the registration
<Seveas> of ask on the mailinglist
<Kyral> Completely since people could also go to packages.ubuntu.com and download it there
<IzzyCC> Seveas aye, thanks
<amoll> azeem: well the idea is that the binary can be distributed freely
<azeem> amoll: that wouldn't change with LGPL?
<Kyral> The source has to be under GPL too right?
<Kyral> or...
<amoll> azeem: well that wasnt my idea, I am not sure
<Kyral> Wouldn't be the same as SunJava?
<azeem> if you distribute that binary under the GPL, you have to offer the people who download it the source under the GPL as well
<amoll> well the viewer has still some source left, which isnt in the library. I guess this code could be distributed under the GPL
<amoll> but to use it, it would depend on the library, which is under LGPL
<azeem> ah, ok
<azeem> that makes sense
<Kyral> Whats the difference between GPL and LGPL anyway?
<azeem> but then you need to offer that GPL source somewhere
<Hieronymus> Kyral: LGPL allows linking to proprietary software
<Kyral> So if the lib is propreitary
<azeem> "the lib"? which library?
<Kyral> then the binary/source of the viewer would be under PGPL
<Kyral> err
<Kyral> LGPL
<Hieronymus> ehm, hasn't amol said three times now that the viewer is GPL and the library is LGPL. What's the fuss about?
<Kyral> Because it sounds like that you cannot get the source of the library
<amoll> of course you can get it, but you have to register for free
<amoll> is that a serious problem?
<Kyral> and if the lib is in the repos you would be able to bypass the registration
<Hieronymus> Kyral: so _what_?
<Kyral> it seems like that is unwanted thats what ;P
<azeem> amoll: no, but you need to understand that other people can just distribute the source/binary to others, without registration
<azeem> like Ubuntu/Debian would
<Kyral> or Gentoo...
<Kyral> I personally never understood why people are so concerned about who is using it. To me no feedback means its working. Its when it doesn't work is when I want to here about it
<amoll> Well we are really glad if we get feedback, but at the same time we would like to have an overview of who is using our software, also if they dont send any comments...
<azeem> sure, just pointing it out
<azeem> amoll: quite some people more from the Free Software community rather than the Bioinformatics community mind consider these registration forms mildly rude, perhaps
<siretart> re
<JohnnyMast> sirestart i have a problem with pbuilder it asks about a base archive ?? http://pastebin.com/461124, do know this problem ?
<siretart> JohnnyMast: err, Line 9 tells exactly whats wrong and even how to fix it ;)
<siretart> JohnnyMast: have a look at our PbuilderHowto in the wiki first
<JohnnyMast> i did that already
<JohnnyMast> yes that where the steps i took
<JohnnyMast> is it a problem if you create a dapper chroot on dapper ?
<LaserJock> hi Kyral
<siretart> well, do you have a /var/cache/pbuilder/base.tgz at all?
<JohnnyMast> no siretart
<JohnnyMast> but it installed the chroot
<siretart> JohnnyMast: that base.tgz is your chroot
<JohnnyMast> i see but i saw pbuilder checking deps and downloading and installing stuff
<JohnnyMast> i gues i overlooked something then
<siretart> perhaps there was an error
<siretart> the result of pbuilder create should be that base.tgz
<JohnnyMast> im gonna redo the steps and report back to you if it fails, its not the first time something fails on dapper for me
<siretart> JohnnyMast: the wiki mentions that it may be necessary to create a breezy chroot first, and upgrade that to dapper then
<siretart> JohnnyMast: I have no idea if this is true today, and this can change with every day.
<JohnnyMast> well let me try that
<LaserJock> that is what I had to do but that was a while ago
<JohnnyMast> it never hurts to try
<LaserJock> I think that debootstrap didn't work for a while on dapper
<LaserJock> but I don't know if that has been fixed
<siretart> LaserJock: this is because of broken dependencies. they can get broken and fixed with every upload of a 'base package' (packages installed by debootstrap)
<LaserJock> siretart: ah, makes sense
<LaserJock> is REVUDay over?
<JohnnyMast> well, its building a breezy chroot now. If its done i will check the the base.tgz file is there if it is i will follow the wiki steps to update to dapper
<LaserJock> Hieronymus: ping?
<Hieronymus> LaserJock: pong!
<LaserJock> Hieronymus: It looks like your ATI driver doesn't like ghemical
<Hieronymus> LaserJock: yeah
<LaserJock> Hieronymus: You could email the ghemical-devel mailing list
<JohnnyMast> on breezy it didnt create the base.tgz as well, but i think i saw an error on that my cd was not inserted
<siretart> hey Mez
<siretart> Mez: how are you
<Kyral> hey guys
<Mez> siretart: been better
<siretart> :(
<Hieronymus> LaserJock: hmm.. I'm lazy :) will put it in my stickywiki
<Mez> siretart: I've been having a ****** time since Montral
<Mez> and it's just getting worse
<Kyral> Are we still doing bootcharting for Devel?
<tseng> of course
<tseng> the more the merrier
<Kyral> very nice. Because I am quite happy with myself. Got my lappy down to 15 seconds flat in Dapper
<slomo> siretart: hm, do you have a contact address for this eth42 guy? ;)
<siretart> slomo: sorry
<siretart> ah, there you are
<siretart> query
<LaserJock> crap, spilled a spool of 100 cd's on the floor >:(
<Kyral> ouch
<LaserJock> luckly, the were mostly Fedora, Mandrake, and Suse isos ;-)
<Kyral> lol
<LaserJock> that is one nice thing about Ubuntu, only 1 cd
<Kyral> hehe
<slomo> siretart: anyway, i don't see why he thinks faac is without mp4 support... it is built in on breezy/dapper on all arches ;)
* LaserJock mutters to himself, "What the heck am I doing with Mandrake cds?"
<Hieronymus> I'm making a .deb for bulldozer, an extension for nautilus which integrates build systems (make, ant etc.). If you use a format bulldozer knows but you haven't installed, like ant, it will give an error. Two questions: 1. Should I Depend: on these packages? 2. Two of these supported build systems are maven and maven2, but they're not in Ubuntu. What should I do?
<JohnnyMast> pack them as well ?? :p
<Hieronymus> ehh.. :p
<Hieronymus> JohnnyMast: I picked this program because it's small and easy, and I don't feel like figuring out this maven thing ;-)
<JohnnyMast> well you could depend on the package, how important is it ?
<Hieronymus> JohnnyMast: I could depend on ant and nant, but not on maven and maven2.
<JohnnyMast> but you could reconment it for later
<JohnnyMast> because i get from this both arn on debian ?
<JohnnyMast> *arnt
<Hieronymus> What happens if you choose to build an {ant,nant,maven,maven2} file is you get an error because child process {ant,nant,maven,maven2} couldn't be executed
<Hieronymus> JohnnyMast: maven and maven2 aren't in Debian
<JohnnyMast> well if you depend it will only fail on maven and maven2
<JohnnyMast> well thats why i sayed you could reconment it and see if its possible to add the packages later on
<Hieronymus> but then again, should I depend on it? Most people won't want to install nant and ant
<jamessan|work> could you convince upstream to gracefully handle a missing binary?
<Hieronymus> jamessan|work: what is gracefully?
<JohnnyMast> maybe they do already
<JohnnyMast> Hieronymus: "goed afhandelen"
<Hieronymus> JohnnyMast: I know what the words mean, just not what jamessan|work means
<jamessan|work> Hieronymus: having them detect that the binary is missing and give a nice message instead of just failing
<jamessan|work> If they already do that, then I'd say you could package it as is and Recommend the build systems
<Hieronymus> http://members.home.nl/jeroen-91/temp/Schermafdruk-Fout.png
<Hieronymus> basically it says 'error, you can't execute target build, because child process ant failed'
<jamessan|work> that seems to be that path that file-roller took.  the common archival formats are depended on and the less common ones are just recommended
<Hieronymus> jamessan|work: okay, I'll stick with recommended
<jamessan|work> yeah, I wouldn't call that an extrememly user-friendly error message, but they may argue that it is good enough for people that are attempting to compile software
<Hieronymus> but what about maven and maven2? Can I recommend them even though they don't exist in debian and ubuntu (yet)
<jamessan|work> You could mention that they are supported in the long package description and when/if they are included in Debian you would include them in the recommendations
<jamessan|work> s!Debian!Debian/Ubuntu!
<jamessan|work> in fact, I'd highly recommend taking a look at "apt-cache show file-roller" for inspiration
<kerosin> i have a maybe stupid question: if i create a package with a c++ library and application on a 32 bit machine, will it run also on a athlon64 machine?
<Hieronymus> kerosin: no
<Hieronymus> you'd have to recompile it for the athlon64
<lucas> hi
<lucas> I'm looking for a sponsor for bug #5035
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #5035: ruby (Ubuntu) - shared library installed to incorrect directory on amd64 In: libgettext-ruby (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Reviewers Team, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5035
<lucas> there's a debdiff attached. the fix is a one liner, but the bug renders the package unusable
<lucas> (on amd64)
<Hieronymus> lucas: I think you should use "Close malone #5035" in you debian/changelog
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #5035: ruby (Ubuntu) - shared library installed to incorrect directory on amd64 In: libgettext-ruby (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Reviewers Team, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5035
<Hieronymus> *Closes
<lucas> it won't break the fix :)
<lucas> I'll add a note to the bug, so the reviewer will know he has to add the closes line
<littlepaul> ping whiprush
* ajmitch rages against firefox & windows
<ajmitch> Hieronymus: we don't have to add the closes line in changelogs
<ajmitch> that's done in debian because uploads can automatically close the bugs
<ajmitch> it can be good to mention it, certainly
<Hieronymus> ajmitch: I know, I thought Ubuntu'd do that to
<ajmitch> it might happen when we shift to launchpad for uploads
<ajmitch> but not yet
<Tonio_> hi
<ajmitch> hello
<cyberix> Have you seen http://www.netsplit.com/software/gnome-space-chart/
<ajmitch> if it's yet another new candidate for packaging, add it to UniverseCandidates
<ajmitch> if keybuk doesn't package it himself
<JohnnyMast> ajmitch sorry about yesterday
<ajmitch> ok
<JohnnyMast> didnt mean it that way :|
<LaserJock> ajmitch: could you review plotdrop again? I fixed the -stamp issue, I believe.
<ajmitch> not right not
<ajmitch> not right now, I mean
<LaserJock> ajmitch: well, just whenever you can, I'm not in a big hurry, but I just wanted you to know that it is waiting there for you :-)
<ajmitch> or any other MOTU :)
<LaserJock> ajmitch: yes, for sure.
<LaserJock> hmm, this stinks. Debian got rid of the wxwindows2.4 version that the Ubuntu package was based on so the MoM debdiffs are for the previous version (stable) and are 1.5MB
<Kyral> O_O
<ajmitch> LaserJock: so don't rely on MoM output
<ajmitch> just look at the ubuntu changes & apply the ones that are needed manually
<LaserJock> yeah, but it makes it harder to see what the ubuntu changes were
<ajmitch> nah
<ajmitch> changelogs :)
<LaserJock> if the changelogs are good ;-)
<ajmitch> sure
<ajmitch> this is encouragement for you to write good changelogs in future
<LaserJock> for sure
<LaserJock> hmm, changelog looks good. shouldn't be too bad then
* ajmitch gets bored & does a blind dist-upgrade
<lucas> ajmitch: if you are really bored, I have 4 simple syncs/merges and one bug with patch to review ;)
<LaserJock> what is the difference between := and = in debian/rules ?
<lucas> debian/rules is a makefile
<lucas> so the GNU make manual should have the answer
<Mithrandir> it's an immediate assignment vs non-immediate.
<lucas> if I remember correctly, it has to do with how rules are overriden by included files
<JohnnyMast> does revu autmaticly build the uploaded packages ?
<LaserJock> Mithrandir and lucas: thanks
<ajmitch> JohnnyMast: no, that's unsafe to do
<ajmitch> since we allow plenty of people to upload to the box
<JohnnyMast> aah ok thanks
<JohnnyMast> i saw it will be optional in revu2
<dholbach> have a nive evening
<ajmitch> JohnnyMast: it'll be as optional as it is now - except more people (MOTUs) can get a build done
<ajmitch> at the moment people in the right group on the revu server can run pbuilder
<JohnnyMast> well i can say thats wise
<ajmitch> we decided that building everything that comes in might not be so safe :)
<JohnnyMast> well i can be save even now
<JohnnyMast> in theory
<ajmitch> sure, but everyone should have built their package before they upload, right?
<JohnnyMast> if some one has an evil setup.py with back connecting code .. unless the bug is hightly firewalled
<JohnnyMast> if that would be possible there still was the problem of the chroot that was cleaned after the buiild
<ajmitch> the easy way is to just say that we don't autobuild packages
<ajmitch> we have limited resources, both in hardware & developers
<JohnnyMast> yes i do understand that
<ajmitch> hello \sh
<\sh> hey ajmitch
<\sh> ajmitch: we got a german translation about ubuntu motu school :)
<ajmitch> I know
<ajmitch> he asked me if it was ok to translate
<\sh> ajmitch: littlepaul?
<ajmitch> \sh: now we just need a summary & writeup of the last one
<ajmitch> yes
<\sh> ajmitch: sure :)
<ajmitch> hm, I thought there was something about the motu school on the wiki
<JohnnyMast> yeah i was looking for the irc logs, maybe some one has them for me ?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> see topic in that channel
* JohnnyMast joins
#ubuntu-motu 2005-12-18
<JohnnyMast> have a nice sleep you all
<sistpoty> hi folks
<crimsun> hi sistpoty
<thierry> LaserJock : could you look at malone bug 3250 ? I think we should tell this guy that universe repository is not in sources.list by default, and reject the bug
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #3250: Broken Package - mozilla-mailnews In: mozilla (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/3250
<thierry> or any other helpful MOTU who wants to look at it :)
<crimsun> reject it
<crimsun> if someone enables universe, (s)he is assumed to have the good sense to enable updates,security for it, too.
<crimsun> I wouldn't word it thusly, but something along those lines suffices
<thierry> crimsun : yeah but I don't have the rights to reject it ;)
<thierry> ho wait maybe I do... sorry
<Nafallo> update-manager won't start anymore?
<Nafallo> ...or is it just me? :-)
<crimsun> it seemed to start here
<crimsun> err, scratch that
<crimsun> confusion with update-notifier
<crimsun> yeah, it fails here with gnome_program_init_paramv: assertion `nparams > 0' failed
<Nafallo> indeed
<Nafallo> can't find a pixmap or something like that :-)
<thierry> crimsun : accepting a bug is just like confirming it right?
<crimsun> thierry: it also implies that you're actively working on it
<thierry> crimsun : ho ok...
<ajmitch>  yay, finally got DSL back
<ajmitch> it's annoying when it goes down for an hour or so
<sistpoty> hehe
<Kyral> ...Is it bad that I though Damn Small Linux?
<ajmitch> Kyral: yes, you're a sad geek
<Kyral> ajmitch: then what are you?
<ajmitch> nobody knows ;)
<Kyral> I mean you are a DD ;P
<ajmitch> a patient geek?
<Kyral> lol
<sistpoty> rrze (computer centre of my university) doesn't deliver any mails atm, I feel somehow cut off from the world *g*
* Nafallo thinks it's worse when the power goes out and his laptop have to automagically reconnect using that neighboors open ap :-P
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> I think its bad when you carry around you own 4-port hub in your laptop bag :D
<ajmitch> sistpoty: I rely on ssh for all my work, I needed that internet connection!
<crimsun> bah, I have a pringles can in my bag
<Kyral> ajmitch: so can I :D
<sistpoty> ajmitch: oh, then I guess I'm not hit that bad ;)
<sistpoty> (at least I can still ssh to rrze server and less /var/mail/sistpoty)
<Nafallo> I wish I had REAL broadband.
<Kyral> You know you are a geek when....
<Nafallo> the kind that has the same bandwidth in both directions :-P
<ajmitch> Nafallo: the broadband you have isn't good enough for you? :P
<Kyral> you know you are a geek when you put the return address on envelopes as "$HOME"
<Nafallo> ajmitch: upstream is ALWAYS swamped :-P
<ajmitch> Nafallo: so stop file sharing
<ajmitch> it plays havoc with tcp downloads
<Nafallo> baah
<Kyral> or you know your IP Address better than your RL Address
* Nafallo has only 20-30 torrents or something like that seeding :-P
* ajmitch restricted his flatmate's connection to ~3 packets/sec until he got the message :)
<Nafallo> lol
<Kyral> lol
<sistpoty> hehe, I had a similar case once, but I just banned his mac ;)
<ajmitch> now he just spends his time on world of warcraft
<Nafallo> ouch. that's almost worse :-P
<zakame> morning all :-)
<sistpoty> hi zakame
<zakame> hi sistpoty :)
<LaserJock> hi Kyral
<zakame> heya Kyral , LaserJock :)
<LaserJock> hi zakame
<Kyral> heya
<Kyral> sithspit its freezing out
<LaserJock> Kyral: temp?
<Kyral> YAH!
<zakame> waah
<LaserJock> Kyral: seemed cold here today (high of 36F) but I can't complain too much
<Kyral> 14 F
<Kyral> tomorrow's high is 18 F with a low of -6 BEFORE wind chill
<zakame> whoa
<Kyral> Welcome to the frozen wasteland
<jsgotangco> that's a big tunraround
<LaserJock> Kyral: I lived in Montana until I came here for grad school. It was pretty chilly there too. I think it was -19 at my inlaws yesterday
<LaserJock> for some reason NV doesn't seem much warmer, just a lot hotter in the summer
<Kyral> lol
<zakame> gaah
* sistpoty just updated the merge list: 103->107 unassigned
<Nafallo> oooh
<Nafallo> kernel
<zakame> sistpoty: w00t
<ajmitch> sistpoty: yay
<sistpoty> hehe, I really used my 7 steps to update the merge list, which I sent to tiber admins... I guess I'd forgotten otherwise how to do it *g*
<ajmitch> and about 150 assigned?
<sistpoty> the assigned aren't touched (or shouldn't be)
<Kyral> LaserJock: your @ubuntu start working yet?
<ajmitch> sistpoty: yes, but how many assigned bugs are there?
<ajmitch> firefox just decided to go crazy here (again)
<ajmitch> so I can't tell
<sistpoty> ajmitch: 195
<ajmitch> ouch
<ajmitch> too many
* ajmitch needs to get a few uploaded
<Nafallo> -4 real soon :-)
<sistpoty> the ones from me are either uploaded (1) or ftbfs on ia64 (2)
<ajmitch> mine are all sitting on my disk
<ajmitch> zope ones shouldn't take long :)
<sistpoty> hehe
<sistpoty> maybe there are some already fixed on the assigned list as well... the email-parser/launchpad communication isn't the most stable yet
<LaserJock> Kyral: not yet
* sistpoty just corrects some assigned bugs
<zakame> er, k3d shouldn't be assigned to me... and its not even a merge bug :(
<jsgotangco> no complaints! work! *cracks whip*
<sistpoty> zakame: just saw it
<ajmitch> sistpoty: just assign them all to \sh
<sistpoty> hm... will save him some work of filing bugs :P
<sistpoty> ajmitch: seb128 complains bout nautilus-python (malone: #4832)
<ajmitch> sistpoty: that was 2 weeks ago..
<sistpoty> well, just noted it while going through each bug
<ajmitch> the day after I filed the merge bug, and I talked to him on irc since then :)
<sistpoty> hehe
<ajmitch> 0.4.x does crash
<ajmitch> and it requires some looking at
* StevenK hrms at libwnn6 in Dapper.
<sistpoty> I'm off to bed now... gn8 everyone
<LaserJock> cya sistpoty
<crimsun> StevenK: yeah, I hrmed at it, too, since it's preventing at least one of my packages from building
<crimsun> just haven't had time to drill down and fix it
<StevenK> I switched to libwnn-dev and that causes it now be okay about Build-Depends, but then fail to build.
<StevenK> Right. The new version of wnn6-sdk (1.0.0-13) looks to be better.
<StevenK> Just gotta wait for them to hit the archive.
<ajmitch> StevenK: how much grace time should I give a debian bug submitter before I feel like going & beating them?
* ajmitch calms
<StevenK> ajmitch: Time to skip the country? :-P
<ajmitch> probably\
<zakame> afternoon all :)
<LaserJock> hi
<jah_raztah> 12:51 am here
<zakame> ooh, that reminds me...
<ajmitch> hi
<zakame> hi ajmitch , your lesson rocks! :D
<ajmitch> hah, thanks
<ajmitch> I hope it's coherent enough
<jsgotangco> oh great professor ajmitch!
<ajmitch> oh shut up :P
<LaserJock> ajmitch: what time was that for you?
<ajmitch> 6am
<LaserJock> that was very coherent for 6am ;-)
<jsgotangco> because he's already a well-seasoned, veteran :D
<ajmitch> :P
<ajmitch> I'm not the international celebrity speaker who flies all over the world to give talks
<jsgotangco> yeah that's jdu
<jsgotangco> b
<jsgotangco> :D
<ajmitch> and now the famous jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> gyahhh
<ajmitch> we are in the presence of greatness here!
<LaserJock> Masters of the Universe at least ;-)
<zakame> w00t
<ajmitch> LaserJock: jsgotangco flew all the way to korea to give a talk
<LaserJock> yeah, I heard about that
<LaserJock> that is so cool
<ajmitch> nobody can compete with that
<LaserJock> maybe if mark had given a talk from space
<ajmitch> true
<ajmitch> mark is flying all the way to dunedin, new zealand
<ajmitch> and is giving a keynote talk
<ajmitch> is that cool enough/
<ajmitch> ?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I wish I could see him in the US.
<jsgotangco> i want to refute that statement but it'll give you another chance to say something :P
<zakame> greatness indeed
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: checked out if you can come to LCA yet?
<jsgotangco> ajmitch, i'm flying to brisbane this weekend, i'll see what i can do
<ajmitch> ah right
<ajmitch> I thought it was last weekend, my bad
<jsgotangco> ajmitch, going to dunedin won't be an issue, finding a place to stay would probably be
<ajmitch> I might have a spare room here still :)
<bojan> morning!
<ajmitch> hi
<zakame> hi bojan
<bojan> hi zakame!
<sivang> re again ajmitch
<sivang> ajmitch: are you resigning or being dismissed? (I guess it's job switching season ;-)
<ajmitch> hm, it was a short/medium-term contract sort of thing
<sivang> ajmitch: ah I see, you completed the project there?
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> what's new in MOTU land?
<\sh> that i'm more sick then yesterday.....I shouldn't have gone to amu yesterday evening
<ajmitch> \sh!
<zakame> evening all :D
<ajmitch> that doesn't sound good
<ajmitch> too much drink?
<\sh> ajmitch: cold
<ajmitch> ah
<\sh> sore throat, higher body temperature then yesterday, the typical things
<ajmitch> not so fun
<\sh> actually a good sign that I'm going back to normal
<\sh> 2 years without a cold or any other illness, that's not normal
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> I don't often get one
<\sh> nah not often...but at least one your body should have once a year to build up your immunesystem
* ajmitch gets to do the job hunt dance as well now
<\sh> oh oh linus starts a desktop war
<Treenaks> \sh: where?
<\sh> http://lists.osdl.org/pipermail/desktop_architects/2005-December/000390.html
<Treenaks> *sigh*
<sivang> \sh: what can you say to that?
<sivang> :-/
<\sh> uhm?
<\sh> what shoud I say to that
<ajmitch> sivang: \sh is a kde lover, remember ;)
<\sh> ajmitch: well...but I don't agree with linus
<\sh> but the comment in this mail, it's from a man who invented make config
<ajmitch> heh
<\sh> but to be honest...we should have something like "beginners, semi-pros, experts, cracks" in our desktop settings...so the default is "beginner" and the others can directly go to "cracks"
<sid5400> !list
<Ubugtu> Admin, Bugzilla, Channel, Config, DCC, Fortune, Misc, Owner, and User
<\sh> hmmm..I wonder..every singe time jamesh is posting one article, planet catch my blog and goes crazy
<siretart> 
<siretart> uu
<minghua> good morning
<Tonio_> hi all
<mikhail^> could anyone recommend a site/document regarding how to make library packages?
<mikhail^> i tried making a libvmime package, and unfortunately the .so's and .a's aren't part of the .deb it built...
<azeem> http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html
<mikhail^> azeem, thanks!
<mikhail^> but I've read this, and it doesn't really say much about which files to change, and what to do...
<azeem> do those files get installed properly to $(DESTDIR)/usr/lib?
<azeem> by the upstream Makefile, I mean
<mikhail^> i should check... but if it means anything, the sources use a configure script to define these things...
<azeem> that's good, but the Makefiles need actually use them as well
<azeem> +to
<mikhail^> ah...
<mikhail^> is there a way to tell the cofigure script that the DEST_DIR="/usr" using the files in debian/ ?
<azeem> no, configure should not be concerned with DESTDIR
<azeem> DESTDIR should  just be an override to the Makefile's install target
<mikhail^> okay... but isn't there a way to tell configure that the destination directory of the makefiles generated should be "/usr" ?
<mikhail^> something like --prefix or something like that?
<azeem> yes
<azeem> --prefix=/usr
<mikhail^> so is there a way to tell the configure script that that should be the case?
<mikhail^> using the files perhaps in debian/ ?
<azeem> which files in debian/?
<mikhail^> beats me...
<mikhail^> how do i include the .so's and .a's in the .deb ? debuild doesn't do it...
<azeem> debuild just calles debian/rules
<azeem> so you need to make sure your debian/rules includes them
<mikhail^> azeem, so how do i do that?
<azeem> how many binary packages do you build?
<mikhail^> 2, one for the lib and another for the -dev
<azeem> ok.  And where are the files installed for staging?
<azeem> debian/tmp/ ?
<mikhail^> yup
<mikhail^> I see the files there, but not in the .deb it builds...
<azeem> yes
<azeem> because the .debs get built from debian/libfoo/
<azeem> and debian/libfoo-dev
<azeem> so you need to make sure the appropriate files get moved to those dirs
<mikhail^> so how should it get there?
<azeem> which is usually done by dh_install
<azeem> you can control which files end up in which package by having debian/libfoo.install and debian/libfoo-dev.install files
<azeem> which tell dh_install what to do
<azeem> best to check out a few other library (or even regular) packages, to see how they do it
<mikhail^> oh, okay...
<mikhail^> thanks. :)
<mikhail^> that sure makes sense. :)
<azeem> you're welcome
<mikhail^> should get running now.
<mikhail^> thanks again. :)
<zakame> evening all :D
<thierry> thanks!
<thierry> I'm searching a litlle and easy app to package, (first package)
<Kyral> morning all
<Kyral> thierry: I'd take one that its already packaged, try to do it, then compare it to the one that is already done
<zakame> evening Kyral :D
<zakame> YAY! nip2 built fine! \o/
* zakame now looks for new pkgs to merge
<thierry> Kyral : good idea...
<thierry> Kyral : don't wan't to stop you doing important stuff, but you could you take a look at malone bug 5288
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #5288: orbit (Ubuntu) - [PATCH]  adding a .desktop file to space-orbit In: space-orbit (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Motu Games Team, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5288
<Kyral> why look at it lol
<tseng> lathiat: bong
<lathiat> tseng: bing?
<tseng> lathiat: http://www.hezmatt.org/~mpalmer/planet_ror/ < planet rails unbroken
<lathiat> cool
<lathiat> what was broken about it?
<tseng> planetrubyonrails.org is totally crack
<tseng> its not really PLanet
<zakame> hi minghua
<minghua> hello zakame
<Pupeno> Hello.
<Pupeno> I am in need of updated packages for Haskell, I am planning to backport those on Dapper which are updated and/or update them as necesary. Should I use my own separate repository ? Is there any interest in having this on breezy-backports ?
* Kyral points to the Backports Request Forum on UbuntuForums
<Pupeno> Kyral: I am planning to do the work myself (not just request it).
<Kyral> Pupeno: you can build it then tell JDong that its clean, then he MIGHT put it in Breezy-Backports
<jdong_> so let's say I wanted to become MOTU.... what/where would I need to sign up? ;-)
<jdong_> hmm, lp it looks like
<zakame> huh? I thought you just work like a MOTU: grab a merge, work on that, post a debdiff, and ping a MOTU... ;)
<zakame> yeah, lp's ubuntu-dev
<jdong_> zakame: I'd like to apply for official MOTU privs, as it seems like Mez is no longer active
<jdong_> (and to make ogra happy)
<jdong_> so join the team and show up to today's TB?
<zakame> ooh!
<zakame> yeah ubuntu-dev is the way to go :D
<jdong_> alright, cool
<jdong_> will be back
<zakame> yes, with all the standard(?) stuff, like updating your wiki page, pulling in you fan club :)
<jdong_> do you think I'll need a fan club?
<jdong_> or would the usual people who show up know me already?
<zakame> hehe they would already know :)
* jdong_ proceeds to update wiki page
<jdong_> boy it's been months since I've touched it
* zakame checks the buildlogs for ion3
<siretart> jdong_: you don't need to be a MOTU to do motu work
<jdong_> siretart: then would you recommend me to become MOTU?
<siretart> jdong_: just look for your favorite area to work on, work with the respective MOTUs. get packages uploaded, then apply to the tb, and the motu you worked with will advocate you
<siretart> jdong_: what area would you be interested in?
<zakame> indeed, that's what I was trying to point out :)
<siretart> we have a lot of MOTU Teams!
<jdong_> patching whatever Backports needs to get done
<jdong_> basically filling in for Mez's roles
<jdong_> this morning Ogra was complaning about how mez never shows up anymore
<siretart> jdong_: he was yesterday here, he did sound that well, right
<siretart> jdong_: well, atm we still have an awful lot of merges to do, there are many easy ones to get started, I think
<zakame> wow we're almost back down to 100 :)
<siretart> w00t! :)
<lucas> if a motu has some time, I have 4 merges and a bug to review
<lucas> (actually 3 syncs, 1 merge, 1 bug fix)
<zakame> gn8 all! (actuall good morning ;) :D
* lucas finds it hard to do MOTURuby work if nobody uploads his fixes :-)
<zakame> (I've just pbuilded meld, but am unsure if a sync is ok, deal-tomorrow)
<siretart> lucas: you are unfortunatly perfectly right :(, but we are working it
<zakame> Now am sure :)
<zakame> gn8 really! :D
<JohnnyMast> any one interested at looking to my revu contrib ?
<iceman> hello everybody
<JohnnyMast> hi iceman
<iceman> I'd like to report a bug in the "mail-notification" package
<iceman> which is in universe
<JohnnyMast> you can do that here
<iceman> but the backage doesn't seem to be in malone
<JohnnyMast> on laucnhpad
<JohnnyMast> no thats current
<JohnnyMast> let me link you to the report page
<iceman> ok, thanks
<JohnnyMast> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+filebug
<iceman> I know this page
<JohnnyMast> there you can report bugs
<iceman> but I don't think I have the permissions to add a package in malone
<iceman> that's my problem
<iceman> here
<JohnnyMast> an other location is bugzilla.ubuntu.com
<JohnnyMast> you dont have to add packages
<Cassidy> it's a universe bug. There isn't bugzilla entry for it
<JohnnyMast> then report it to malone
<iceman> that's what I'm trying to do
<JohnnyMast> and that gives an error ?
<iceman> lol I'm telling you I can't report it in malone because that package doesn't appear in it
<minghua> iceman: it's okay to report a bug without package name
<minghua> iceman: if it doesn't exist in malone, that is
<iceman> ha ok
<iceman> in fact, when my "search for products" tells me the product isn't registered in the launchpad, it tells me I can register it myself
<iceman> but I don't really understand how to do it
<iceman> that would be the proper way, I think
<iceman> first register the package, then report the bug
<JohnnyMast> yes i think your right
<Cassidy> the product doesn't need to be associated with ubuntu ?
<iceman> but for example the first thing I'm asked before the name of the package itself is "Project"
<iceman> and I don't know what I'm supposed to answer there
<iceman> "Ubuntu" ?
<iceman> I can't even choose is when clicking on the link on the right of the textbox
<iceman> is^it
<iceman> so, does anyone know?
<JohnnyMast> yes enter ubuntu
<iceman> ok, I will try that
<iceman> it worked, thanks everybody
<iceman> :-)
<JohnnyMast> no problemo
<LaserJock_> that interesting
<JohnnyMast> what is LaserJock_  ?
<LaserJock_> JohnnyMast: sorry, I need to stop commenting on things that happened hours ago :(
<JohnnyMast> hehe well maybe you should but i wasnt there
<LaserJock_> JohnnyMast: I keep scrolling up to see what has happend while I'm gone and keep thinking it's the current conversation
<JohnnyMast> hahaha
<JohnnyMast> that happends to me as well on ocation
<Tonio__> hi there
<JohnnyMast> hi
<mbreit> good evening
<JohnnyMast> hi mbreit
<JohnnyMast> some reviewers alive ?
<herve> hello
<JohnnyMast> hey herve
<Hieronymus> Anyone here knows cdbs? Or should I ask in -school?
<JohnnyMast> in school they will point you to irc logs
<JohnnyMast> pick the link in the topic there and lookup the chat log of 10december and read the *-school log
<JohnnyMast> you will find some intesting lines there
<mbreit> JohnnyMast: I can review...
<JohnnyMast> well you checked out ttb before for a quick view didnt you ?
<JohnnyMast> could you review this http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1133 mbreit ?
<Hieronymus> JohnnyMast: I have more of a specific question. In https://wiki.duckcorp.org/DebianPackagingTutorial/CDBS it says "Then do a "debian/rules clean" run to (re)generate 'debian/control'." How do I do this?
<mbreit> JohnnyMast: that generated nohup.out should not go into the diff.gz...
<JohnnyMast> mbreit i know i wrote that in the comment
<JohnnyMast> Hieronymus i never used cdbs
* Hieronymus asks in -school
<mbreit> JohnnyMast: and where is the ttb-0.9.4/build/scripts-2.4/ttb file from? it's also in the diff.gz... did you download that from the homepage or is that generated as well?
<JohnnyMast> its from the orgional package (downloaded from the site)
<JohnnyMast> hmm you are right now i see
<JohnnyMast> hehe
<JohnnyMast> let me see
<mbreit> JohnnyMast: aways look at your diff.gz if there are only your changes in it (and it's always good if there are only changes in the debian/ directory)
<mbreit> but otherwise it looks good, very clean...
<JohnnyMast> i like to hear that :)
<JohnnyMast> let me fix the things
<JohnnyMast> mbreit can you build as well on revu ?
<mbreit> JohnnyMast: I could do it... that means that I have the access to revu... but i don't know how to do it "the revu way"...
<JohnnyMast> ok
<mbreit> and I prefer building packages on my own system, because that's amd64
<JohnnyMast> well im doing debuild on the updated package
<abelcheung> Hi all, is there any way to 'revert' upload for package? Or have quick remedy for a bad and mistaken upload of package?
<lucas> abelcheung: how can you upload a package with dpkg-buildpackage ?
<lfittl> mbreit: Do you have some time to review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1148?
<JohnnyMast> yeah upload a new version if the code was wrong. it picks the newest version of the package on the revu site
<lucas> (was about to mail you to ask)
<abelcheung> lucas: I can't really be sure how I did that, basically I have not done any configuration to achieve it
<mbreit> lucas: try "dput"
<JohnnyMast> dput *.changes
<mbreit> lfittl: not much time...
<abelcheung> just a simple dpkg-buildpackage and it is uploaded
<lucas> mbreit: *with dpkg-buildpackage*
<lucas> (see the mail from abel on ubuntu-motu
<JohnnyMast> yes brt that was with -s -sa -k
<lfittl> mbreit: ok no problem, I will ask some other person later ;)
<JohnnyMast> created a .changes file
<lucas> abelcheung: it was a revu upload ?
<abelcheung> FYI, the affected package is scim-modules. minghua, are you here?
<abelcheung> lucas: how to determine if it's revu upload or not? I'm quite new in ubuntu...
<lucas> ok, I see :)
<lucas> abelcheung: how did you find out it was uploaded ?
<ajmitch> morning all
<JohnnyMast> morning ajmitch
<lucas> morning ajmitch
<abelcheung> well, there was some console message after dpkg-buildpackage finished, and it told me so. After a while, apt-get update shows it is available :-(
<lucas> abelcheung: seems very strange. your package was probably not uploaded, and you are safe.
<ajmitch> abelcheung: uploaded to where? you have to use dput to upload
<abelcheung> lucas: hope so. I'll double check if archive.ubuntu.com or other mirrors has those packages or not.
<ajmitch> abelcheung: unless you're in the keyring you can't accidentally upload
<lucas> abelcheung: it would be helpful if you could copy/paste those console messages
<abelcheung> lucas: oh, they are long gone.
<ajmitch> the system would be broken if it allowed random people to upload to the archive
<abelcheung> ajmitch: well, can it be that, if I didn't even change the maintainer name?
<ajmitch> abelcheung: no
<ajmitch> otherwise anyone could fake a maintainer name & upload
<abelcheung> ajmitch: hm yes, it makes sense
<abelcheung> ........ it is really available on archive.ubuntu.com
<lfittl> ajmitch: have some time to review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1148 in the morning?
<mbreit> lfittl: your package looks good... even if i don't like if changes are directly in the diff.gz, but that's my opinion and others think different...
<lfittl> mbreit: changes directly in the diff.gz, where?
<abelcheung> Everybody, sorry for the fake noise. It is indeed uploaded, but not by me. Thanks for the patience :-)
<mbreit> lfittl: sorry... i was wrong...
<lfittl> mbreit: no problem ;)
<JohnnyMast> mbreit i uploaded a new version
<JohnnyMast> schould be there in 5 min
<ajmitch> no, I don't have reviewing time today
<lfittl> k
<ajmitch> abelcheung: what package do you say it is?
<abelcheung> ajmitch: it is scim-tables, upstream debian developer uploaded it, I suppose. But anyway, it was broken for several days without a fix, that's why I want to recompile it
<ajmitch> last I see is 0.5.4-1 synced from debian a month ago
<abelcheung> ajmitch: I didn't find it out before viewing timestamp in browser directly. Days ago it was removed from my system entirely because of broken dependency.
* ajmitch has to go now, bbl
<abelcheung> ajmitch: bye
<mbreit> lfittl: pbuilder is updated now, building libcafix (md5sum matches btw, which is very good *g*)
<lfittl> mbreit :)
<minghua> abelcheung: yes I am here
<mbreit> lfittl: there have been packages on revu where the md5sum of the .orig.tar.gz did not match the original tarball from the project's homepage
<lfittl> mbreit: nobody is perfect ;)
<slomo_> mbreit: and in some very rare cases it's needed
<minghua> abelcheung: as for the scim-tables issue, a new debian upload for 0.5.5-1 is going to happen soon, and once dapper syncs that, it's going to be installable
<mbreit> slomo_: i know... when upstream releases only tar.bz2 or they put a debian-directory in it...
<abelcheung> minghua: there is no problem now, I've been hyper for a while
<slomo_> mbreit: or millions of other reasons, yes ;) but in general it's bad, yes :)
<abelcheung> minghua: thanks for info
<mbreit> lfittl: you have your vote
<lfittl> mbreit: thanks for reviewing :)
<JohnnyMast> hmm i have a problem, dput says the dsc file already exists on the revu server
<mbreit> JohnnyMast: remove the .uploaded or whatever from your working directory
<JohnnyMast> ok
<mbreit> .upload
<lfittl> JohnnyMast: or call dput with -f option
<JohnnyMast> tryed that already
<JohnnyMast> hmm
<JohnnyMast> ile bet it only work if i change it to ubuntu2
<mbreit> JohnnyMast: it should work without renaming it
<JohnnyMast> ile pastebin my session
<mbreit> i know that it worked some time ago...
<JohnnyMast> http://pastebin.com/462699 there you go
<herve> bye
<mbreit> JohnnyMast: hmm... okay... that's another problem than i've thought
<JohnnyMast> do you know the problem ?
<mbreit> JohnnyMast: i've just logged in to revu to have a look
<JohnnyMast> ok
<mbreit> okay, I have solved the problem (I think), so try again
<JohnnyMast> ok
<JohnnyMast> let me try if its fixed
<JohnnyMast> w00t :)
<JohnnyMast> worked
<JohnnyMast> was it my side that did something wrong ?
<mbreit> your files were still lying in the incoming-directory of the ftp-server... i have no idea why
* JohnnyMast gives mbreit a coffee
<mbreit> have you interrupted the last upload?
<mbreit> thanks ;)
<JohnnyMast> no i didnt
<mbreit> well, it works ;)
<mbreit> and revu deleted your files this time ;)
<mbreit> hh... well... there went something else wrong...
<mbreit> you don't have an orig.tar.gz and a .diff.gz... but one native package...
<JohnnyMast> hmmm
<mbreit> make sure that the .orig.tar.gz is present when you build the source package
<JohnnyMast> then i have to debuild ; pkg-buildpackage -S -sa -k ...
<JohnnyMast> what tha
<derekS> hey, what is this "buddy" program?
<derekS> i can't really find any info on it
<JohnnyMast> mbreit same error again
* ajmitch wanders back in
<cyberix> Fuddl: You did the quake3-data package which can be found at http://revu.tauware.de/ ?
<lfittl> dholbach: ping
<Fuddl> cyberix: as long as nobody uploaded another quake3 package, it was me
<cyberix> Fuddl: It doesn't work with Loki Quake 3
<ajmitch> JohnnyMast: you applied for MOTU already?
<cyberix> Fuddl: I think this is because it has a slightly different directory structure.
<Fuddl> cyberix: iiiiihk! what's "loki quake3" btw?
<mbreit> JohnnyMast: the missing .orig.tar.gz error?
<Fuddl> cyberix: a special cd (set)?
<cyberix> Fuddl: Proprietary Linux Quake3
<JohnnyMast> mbreit no i didnt upload
<mbreit> so what error do you mean?
<JohnnyMast> ajmitch no i didnt
<JohnnyMast> mbreit the upload error
<ajmitch> JohnnyMast: your name is on the members list
<ajmitch> as proposed
<cyberix> Fuddl: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loki_Software
<mbreit> JohnnyMast: have you deleted the .upload file?
<Fuddl> cyberix: ah, you already said it "another dir structure". do you own such a cd?
<ajmitch> s/members/ubuntu-dev/
<JohnnyMast> ooh yes i did thats correct
<cyberix> Fuddl: I do, but I don't have it at hand. I do have an image. Which may or may not be exactly the same. I think it is. But I'd better check back with the cd
<ajmitch> oh well you can't get approved, not being a member :)
<mbreit> JohnnyMast: this time the upload directory is empty, so it's not the same bug
<cyberix> Fuddl: It will take me few weeks to get the cd physically.
<cyberix> Fuddl: Then I could do a "find" at the root of the cd and send you the output
<cyberix> Fuddl: Is that ok?
<JohnnyMast> ok mbreit, btw the last pload  fixed it all i think.. i think the package is there now (in quality) can you have a reviewing eye on it ?
<mbreit> ok
<Fuddl> cyberix: it should be enough if you can tell me the path to pak0.pk3. if that isn't "directly" on the cd, some infos about "it's in foobar.tar.gz" would be nice ;)
<mbreit> JohnnyMast: ttb-0.9.4/build/scripts-2.4/ttb is still part of the diff.gz
<JohnnyMast> yes thats what dkg-buildpkg creates
<cyberix> Fuddl: Ok. I'll get back to you by irc or email, as soon as I've retrieved the cd.
<JohnnyMast> i think
<JohnnyMast> let me try to delete it from the source
<JohnnyMast> mbreit, the source is updated again
<JohnnyMast> no more ttb-1.9.4/build
<JohnnyMast> *0.9.4
<mbreit> good... just waiting for revu to update the page
<mbreit> looks much better...
<JohnnyMast> thats now
<mbreit> why are you changing that PKG-INFO file?
<JohnnyMast> i didnt touch it
<mbreit> and i don't think that changing LICENSE is a good idea... but i don't know what the others are saying about that ;)
<JohnnyMast> its still gpl
<Fuddl> cyberix: okidoki! write an email, please, when you found out
<JohnnyMast> ooh i think i know what you mean
<JohnnyMast> i changed the address
<mbreit> JohnnyMast: but you should not change a file outside of debian/ without a good reason... because that makes maintaining that package more difficult
<sivang> \sh: are there any more merges to be done? (I thought we were stopping for while)
<JohnnyMast> the reason was a warning in litnium
<Hieronymus> JohnnyMast: I don't think you should change the copyright things in any way, and copy them verbatim into debian/copyright
<JohnnyMast> &lintian
<\sh> sivang: there are...and I'm sick...so I don't want to disturb my sickness :)
<JohnnyMast> there was a repport of an W line
<JohnnyMast> the addr of the foundation was wrong
<JohnnyMast> mbreit do you want me to put back the orig ttb-0.9.4/LICENSE ?
<mbreit> JohnnyMast: wait... i'll try that... i want to see that lintian-warning ;)
<JohnnyMast> ok
<JohnnyMast> but i did that before the very first upload
<sivang> \sh: ok, let me take one from you you think is easy to start with, let's see what I can do after hard day at work :)
<JohnnyMast> litnian -i some.deb
<\sh> sivang: i can't tell..i'm taking one or 10 packages and work on them...I don't care if it's hard or not :)
<sivang> haha
<sivang> ok, go back to bed, drink herbal tea etc..
<mbreit> JohnnyMast: lintian didn't say anything about the license-file... and i have restored the original file
<JohnnyMast> it reported to me that the address of the foundation was changed and it gave me the address as it is changed to now
<mbreit> funny... it does not on my system (latest dapper)
<JohnnyMast> mbreit what do you want me to do now ?
<JohnnyMast> im on dapper as well btw
<mbreit> i don't know... i would ask other motus and here what they say...
<JohnnyMast> mbreit dont bother ile just keep the orig file
<mbreit> but anyways: you could restore the PKG-INFO file... dpkg-buildpackage -S does not change it so it does not have to be in the diff
<JohnnyMast> what where the changes ?
<JohnnyMast> hmm let me see
<mbreit> Platform: UNKNOWN has been changed to Platform: any
<JohnnyMast> own yeah
<JohnnyMast> let me restore that
<JohnnyMast> and now im putting back the org LICENSE fill as well
<JohnnyMast> then its fixed right ?
<mbreit> lol... wtf does pbuilder install libgcj-common as a build-dependency for that? ;)
<Hieronymus> JohnnyMast: ttb is python, right? Wouldn't that be all?
<JohnnyMast> yes
<mbreit> as i said, i would ask some other motus, i can not tell you what's the right way with that LICENSE file
<JohnnyMast> Hieronymus, thats why i canged it to any
<JohnnyMast> *changed
<Hieronymus> but any is different
<JohnnyMast> how is "any" in this option diffrent then "all"
<lifeless> morning all
<lifeless> ajmitch/azeem so I need a hand with opensync
<ajmitch> lifeless: sure..
<mbreit> it's building one package for all platforms vs. one package for each plattform
<lifeless> I need to exclude the modules from the shilb output
<Hieronymus> JohnnyMast: can't you take python code from platform to platform without recompiling? Or do I need to learn more about Python?
<mbreit> JohnnyMast: but there are some issues with that package...
<Hieronymus> http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/ch-dreq.en.html#s-control
<lifeless> ajmitch: this is what it creates:
<lifeless> cat libopensync0/DEBIAN/shlibs
<lifeless> libopensync-xml 0 libopensync0
<lifeless> libopensync 0 libopensync0
<lifeless> libosengine 0 libopensync0
<lifeless> xml evolution libopensync0
<lifeless> xml kde libopensync0
<azeem>        -Xitem, --exclude=item
<azeem>            Exclude files that contain "item" anywhere in their filename or directory from being treated as shared
<lifeless> xml vcal libopensync0
<ajmitch> let me just bzr pull to get the latest
<lifeless> xml vcard libopensync0
<azeem>            libraries.
<lifeless> xml vnote libopensync0
<Hieronymus> If your package is architecture independent (for example, a shell or Perl script, or a document), change this to "all", and read later in `rules' file, Section 4.4 about using the `binary-indep' rule instead of `binary-arch' for building the package.
<ajmitch> *cough*
<mbreit> JohnnyMast: after building with pbulder the .deb has only 2 files in it: /usr/share/doc/ttb/copyright and /usr/share/doc/ttb/changelog.Debian.gz
<azeem> lifeless: are they all under one dir? then we can just pass -Xfoo to dh_makeshlibs I guess
<lifeless> azeem: So - I *think* its only to exclude those 5 lines. but I'm not sure - I don't package libraries often,
<mbreit> JohnnyMast: dh_python
<mbreit> Can't stat debian/ttb: No such file or directory
<mbreit>  at /usr/bin/dh_python line 169
<JohnnyMast> hu ? i dont get that
<JohnnyMast> let me fire mine
<lifeless> azeem: yes, they are all 'formats'
<lifeless>  ls libopensync0/usr/lib/opensync/formats/
<lifeless> contact.so  data.so  event.so  file.so  note.so  todo.so  xml-evolution.so  xml-kde.so  xml-vcal.so  xml-vcard.so  xml-vnote.so
<mbreit> JohnnyMast: and of course change that any to all ;)
<JohnnyMast> ok
<azeem> -Xformats might do the trick
<mbreit> but as Hieronymus said, be carefull with the targets in debian/rules
<mbreit> (and always try building in pbuilder and look at the resulting .deb before uploading to revu)
<JohnnyMast> mbreit yes your right i see only the docs as well
<JohnnyMast> but thats after i removed the build dir
<JohnnyMast> no not
<ajmitch> lifeless: you're working off opensync-debian or upstream?
<JohnnyMast> else work it out
<lifeless> ajmitch: opensync-debian is the branch I build in
<lifeless> upstream is the upstream tarball
<ajmitch> right, I just saw that it needed autogen.sh to be run
<ajmitch> bad upstream practices for a released tarball :)
<cyberix> Fuddl: You might anyway want to add a fallback feature to specify the location(s) of the needed file(s) by hand.
<lifeless> couldn't find the tarball, they recommended downloading from svn branch foo
<lifeless> on the website
<lifeless> so I did
<ajmitch> ok
<mbreit> JohnnyMast: i would like to go now, but you can contact me via jabber if you have questions or a new version on revu..
<lifeless> right -X formats seems to have worked
<JohnnyMast> whats ur jabber ?
<ajmitch> great
<mbreit> mo42@jabber.ccc.de
<JohnnyMast> thanks
<mbreit> okay, then good night guys!
<lifeless> pushed
<JohnnyMast> good night mbreit, thanks for your help
<lifeless> no lintian errrors, but still got some warts:
<mbreit> no problem
<ajmitch> lifeless: what revno?
<lifeless> 13
<ajmitch> hm
<lifeless> (of the debian dir ;)
<ajmitch> maybe it's caching somewhere here, I still don't see the update (at 12 here)
<lifeless> probably
<lifeless> give it a try again in a few
<ajmitch> looks like I have to try & revive my bzr.dev tree anyway :)
<siretart> dholbach: around?
<siretart> dholbach: could you please have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUMedia/MeetingInvitation and tell slomo and me if you are d'accord?
<siretart> escp. with the time and spelling
<dholbach> acheive -> achieve
<siretart> we'd also like to have pitti there, because of ffmpeg.
<dholbach> told the guys in -desktop
<dholbach> we should have example-content and test-plans on there too
<dholbach> and maybe organisational stuff, ie how to drive the team...
<siretart> okay
<dholbach> siretart: i asked jdub if he wants to attend too
<crimsun> I'll try to attend; I have another meeting scheduled an hour before that
<lifeless> is there a control file to tell dpkg-source to ignore files ?
<lifeless> rather than passing -i ?
<azeem> I don't think so
<azeem> lifeless: those control files are all used by debhelper, dpkg-* is much more barebone
<azeem> lifeless: you can just remove them in the clean target, perhaps?
<ajmitch> if you use debuild, you can configure it to pass -i every time
<lifeless> heh
<ajmitch> I imagine you want to ignore .bzr each time?
<lifeless> I would like to have the package tell dpkg-source to ignore .bzr|.bzrignore
<lifeless> when you build it
<lifeless> rather than you having to figure it out yourself :)
<ajmitch> well if you have the package from debian, it won't have .bzr
<ajmitch> so it's only those lucky people who grab your branch :)
<lifeless> ajmitch: which is everyone uploading, we hope
<ajmitch> yep
<lifeless> ok, remaining lintian foo
<lifeless> rpath defintions :[
<lifeless> python2.4-opensync: binary-or-shlib-defines-rpath ./usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/_opensync.so.0.0.0 /usr/lib
<lifeless> W: opensyncutils: binary-or-shlib-defines-rpath ./usr/bin/osyncdump /usr/lib
<lifeless> ...
<lifeless> W: libopensync0: binary-or-shlib-defines-rpath ./usr/lib/libosengine.so.0.0.0 /usr/lib
<lifeless> how serious are those. its libtool choosing to rpath
<ajmitch> not too serious afaik
<ajmitch> http://lintian.debian.org/reports/Tbinary-or-shlib-defines-rpath.html shows how many others have it
<lifeless> yes
<lifeless> a fair number
* ajmitch doesn't know enough about it, perhaps azeem does
<lifeless> but there must be many more libtooled library using packages than that
<azeem> I'm trying to pull the source finally
<azeem> but I never used bzr before and it seems to either hang or take ages
<lifeless> azeem: its still not optimised for network, so it will take ages
<lifeless> azeem: once you have it updates are much faster
<azeem> ok
<lifeless> azeem: you can also use one branch as the basis for grabbing another
<azeem> I'm checking out the svn repo in the meantime
<lifeless> azeem: of opensync ?
<lifeless> azeem: or of the modules ?
<azeem> opensync for now
<lifeless> azeem: ok. note that that the 0.18 svn trunk is in my upstream branch
<lifeless> erm, 0.18 tag :)
<jdong> why does vlc depend on such a recent version of libflac-dev?
<siretart> dholbach: cool!
<ajmitch> siretart: ?
<siretart> ajmitch: the MOTUMedia meeting on thursday, dholbach asked jdub
<siretart> to attend
<dholbach> siretart: he didnt answer yet
<siretart> ok
<ajmitch> siretart: ah ok
<ajmitch> siretart: another meeting I never heard about ;)
<jdong> for that matter, what is the typical reason for such specific versions in build-deps?
<siretart> ajmitch:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUMedia/MeetingInvitation
<ajmitch> siretart: too early
<crimsun> jdong: transitions and soname changes.
<jdong> crimsun: ah, ok
<\sh> siretart: cool :)
<siretart> I think slomo will send the email out soon.
<greenpenguin13> topic on #ubuntu-motu-school still says about the lesson a while back...
<ajmitch> yes, because we've been too lazy/busy to write up the lesson & to change the topic :)
<\sh> no anymore
<siretart> huhu \sh
<\sh> siretart: evening
<greenpenguin13> :-p
<\sh> any scheme crack here?
<dholbach> didnt we have a motu-weirdo-team for that? :-p
<azeem> lifeless: -R $(libdir) is passed to LDFLAGS for a lot of things, I assume that issues the RPATH
<\sh> well....the problem is not scheme...the problem is more packaging...
<azeem> tools/Makefile.in:osyncdump_LDFLAGS = @PACKAGE_LIBS@ @XML_LIBS@ -R $(libdir) @GCOV_LDFLAGS@
<siretart> dholbach: what is the email for contacting the fridge guys?
<\sh> if anyone wants...g-wrap from Sid....can be normally synced..but it's not buildable...because of very strange build-deps
<\sh> fridge-devel
<dholbach> siretart: fridge-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
<siretart> ah, ok
<siretart> wasn't sure
<ogra> oh, why is it -devel ?
<lifeless> azeem: yes but:
<lifeless> look in configure for 'hardcode_into_libs=yes;
<lifeless> erm s/;/'
<lifeless> thats libtool fucking around
<azeem> hrm
<lifeless> note that its hardcoded on for all gnu linux platforms
<azeem> I think you get that in a lot of configure scripts
<lifeless> yes
<lifeless> its a libtool feature
<azeem> but when building usual packages, you don't get an rpath
<lifeless> checking how to hardcode library paths into programs... immediate
<siretart> pu
<siretart> email sent
<lifeless> I'm not aware of a flag to control that. If its not a big deal, I'd like to ignore it for now
<\sh> ajmitch: bah
<siretart> gn8 folks
<siretart> cu tomorrow!
<\sh> 7join #ubuntu-sick-motu
<\sh> oops
<siretart> \sh: gute besserung!
<\sh> siretart: danke
<ajmitch> heh
<dholbach> \sh: fieber? erkltung? grippe?
<\sh> cold, fever, headache, bodypain, muscle pain...everything I need
<ajmitch> lifeless: lib packaging guide basically says it's something to request from upstream
<ajmitch> http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html#rpath
<azeem> lifeless: in the libtool script, a comment says that rpath is not hardcoded in if the file is in the system default run-time search path
<dholbach> \sh: had the same symptoms today
<dholbach> and i start feeling better
<\sh> dholbach: I started on saturday...and I thought it's over...but sadly I went yesterday evening to amu
<\sh> and this morning...much more worse
<azeem> 23:30 [OPN]  -!- Cannot join to channel #opensync (You have joined to too many channels)
<azeem> *sigh*
<dholbach> \sh: get better soon
<\sh> I have to...monday I need my voice :)
<ajmitch> azeem: yeah, it's a real pain
* ogra wonders how many are to many 
<lifeless> ogra: 30 odd
<ogra> ah, i'm just below that ...
<ajmitch> 20 is the limit
<ajmitch> iirc
<ajmitch> unless they changed it on me
<ogra> :)
* ajmitch found a d-d post where it's recommended to patch libtool after running configure
<\sh> dholbach: do u know why gtk2-engines-dev is not there anymore?
<ajmitch> but I don't think it's needed
<dholbach> \sh: afaik it was a debian decision to not ship it anymore, but not entirely sure
<\sh> dholbach: so I can forget to merge all rdepends of gtk2-engines-dev? because gtk2-themes-extras needs it somehow...or is there another way?
<\sh> oh forget what I said
<dholbach> \sh: done
<\sh> grmpf
<\sh> I have to get rid of this "0ubuntu1" orig tar gz which size doesn't fit with debians...
<ajmitch> oh more evil
<ajmitch> there are a few of those
<ajmitch> what different files are in them?
<\sh> ajmitch: I will find out just now...
<\sh> it's an ubuntu first timer...and now in debian..and orig.tar.gz differs
<lifeless> gagh
<ajmitch> which one repacked the tarball? :)
<dholbach> have a nice case here now, somebody used tar --posix, which lintian is not happy about
<minghua> ajmitch: do you have time to review my xfonts-wqy debdiff?  or you are not interested in that package anymore?
<\sh> ajmitch: problem is...no differences..
<\sh> between the orig.tar sources of debian and ubuntu
<\sh> well...seb128
<ajmitch> minghua: right now? no, I'm going out in about 5 minutes
<ajmitch> \sh: timestamps
<ajmitch> or something simple
<minghua> ajmitch: no not now, any time you feel like?
<\sh> ajmitch: how to fix...or I ping seb128 to fix his package :)
<ajmitch> minghua: or you could ask someone like \sh, or another MOTU if I'm not available :)
<ajmitch> \sh: do you need to sync it?
<ajmitch> if not, then just apply any changes manually
<\sh> ajmitch: yes...elmo tried...already
<ajmitch> which you'll end up doing anyway :)
<minghua> ajmitch: okay, I just thought since you reviewed last debdiff... :-)
<ajmitch> minghua: I don't have 'ownership' of reviewing stuff :)
<minghua> Any MOTU have time to review bug #5568?  it's about a new package from debian, containing chinese fonts
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #5568: xfonts-wqy FTBFS due to missing build dependency In: Ubuntu, Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Reviewers Team, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5568
<crimsun> minghua: I'll look; I have a few minutes before I head out.
<minghua> ajmitch: sure, I meant to say you are probably more familiar with it than other MOTUs
<minghua> crimsun: thanks!
<crimsun> looks fine, it's probably still in NEW
<crimsun> do you need me to upload it?
<\sh> ajmitch: done...diff -ur <ubuntu debianized source dir> <merge debianized source dir> > diff.patch and patched the sh*t into the ubuntu debianized source tree
<minghua> crimsun: yes, if you think it's good please upload
<minghua> crimsun: I _think_ nobody uploaded this new version yet
<minghua> I don't really know how to check
<minghua> ... except lamont's buld logs (which doesn't have this version)
<lifeless> bah
<lifeless> dbg package still empty, and the placeholder python-opensync is awol
<lifeless> they are the only two bugs stopping me uploading
<\sh> dholbach: what are you doing?
<dholbach> \sh: hm?
<\sh> dholbach: where did you get gnome-themes-extras 0.9.x ?
<azeem> *blink*
<dholbach> \sh: upstream?
<\sh> dholbach: but not debian
<dholbach> yeah
<\sh> dholbach: but thx :) now I can resolv the bug :)
<azeem> lifeless: so unless I export PYTHON=foo, it FTBFS here, did you see that?
<dholbach> ?!
<lifeless> azeem: no.
<\sh> dholbach: that was the problem I was just fighting with
<lifeless> I am building thusly:
<lifeless> debuild -us -uc -i".bzr*"
<dholbach> happy to have been of service
<lifeless> I've pushed another patch to the debian dir
<azeem> lifeless: well, I'm using sbuild
<ajmitch> lifeless: it builds nicely in pbuilder?
<\sh> dholbach: I just had a look on -changes...
<azeem> checking for a Python interpreter with version >= 2.2... configure: error: no suitable Python interpreter found
<ajmitch> (or sbuild)
<lifeless> ajmitch: I'm just setting up pbuilder
<azeem> make: *** [debian/build-stamp]  Error 1
<crimsun> minghua: hmm, then you'll have to check if it's sitting in NEW, because duplicating uploads of orig.tar.gz isn't a good idea
<crimsun> minghua: I think that's only elmo-facing, though
<JohnnyMast> azeem, i have an error like it
<JohnnyMast> also with python and python-glade2
<JohnnyMast> while its installed
<azeem> configure.in has this:
<azeem>     AM_PATH_PYTHON(2.2)
<azeem> [...] 
<azeem>             if test -z "$PYTHON" ; then
<azeem>                 AC_MSG_WARN([Python not found] )
<ajmitch> ok, back in an hour or so :)
<lifeless> azeem: it build-deps on the python2.4-dev
<minghua> crimsun: there was build logs for the debian version 0.6.0-1 (http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/x/xfonts-wqy/), would that mean it has been out of NEW already?
#ubuntu-motu 2006-12-11
* imbrandon yawns
<ajmitch> hi imbrandon 
<ajmitch> what's up?
<imbrandon> nadda
<imbrandon> sitting bored
<imbrandon> staring at irc
<imbrandon> sftping some files to the new box
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> you?
<ajmitch> just had lunch
<imbrandon> hehe me 3
<ajmitch> now back at work
<ajmitch> for more fun times
<imbrandon> yea i'm on the 12 to 12 shift atm
<imbrandon> bored out of my mind atm at work , nothing happens on a sunday night here
<imbrandon> i;'m litterly the only person in the building
<imbrandon> with 6 more hours
<imbrandon> so i've been setting up pbuilders on the new colo box
<imbrandon> thinking about tomarrow i might put my apple lappy in the rack too as a ppc buildd
<imbrandon> maybe
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> what's the new colo box?
<ajmitch> something we can play on?
<imbrandon> eventualy, right now i only have my account on their but it will be a build server for us
<ajmitch> ok
<imbrandon> its sitting on a FAT pipe at work, with no limmits on bandwitch etc and a 100Mb/s connection
<ajmitch> my ssh key is on launchpad :)
<imbrandon> but hopefully over the next day or two i'll have it all ready for the "public"
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> and actualy if it had a gigbit card i would have 1000Mb/s connection, e.g. the employee rack is unmetered and tied driectly to the trunk
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> not that you really need it for building stuff
<imbrandon> right right, but i'll eventualy put imbrandon.com their too ( probably not on that particualr box though )
<ajmitch> you expect to saturate 100Mbps?
<ajmitch> I'd be impressed
<imbrandon> and it at the moment has 368GB free hdd space on LVM so i can add more HDD's too if needed
<imbrandon> nah , but i like to have extra :)
<imbrandon> i doubt we'll even come close
<imbrandon> except maybe in a burst or something
<imbrandon> for a single download
<imbrandon> etc
<ajmitch> like if you hosted an ubuntu mirror there around release time
<imbrandon> right, there is actualty already a full ubuntu mirror the company runs on the lan ( and publicly ) so i dident see a need to mirror again
<imbrandon> the company public mirror on the same lan is ummm current.gsihosting.com/ubuntu iirc
<imbrandon> i have it in the sources.list as the private ip, i think thats the public one
<ajmitch> useful
<ajmitch> makes building a lot faster
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> we have ALOT of ubuntu servers so having a lan mirror for updates and new server builds is nice too
<imbrandon> but its a full rsyc mirror with all the arches etc too even though we only use x86 and x86_64 in house
<imbrandon> ( and a CentOS mirror , ugh )
<ajmitch> maybe you can can slip that 1000Mbps card in sometime
<imbrandon> hehe yea 
<imbrandon> brb
<imbrandon> phone
<imbrandon> re
<ajmitch> so you do shift work there?
<imbrandon> yea , well not normaly but someone had a funeral so i'm covering
<imbrandon> normaly i work 8am to 4pm M-F
<zul> ah sane people's hours
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> 8am mondays
<ajmitch> so you'll be in at 8am tomorrow?
<DBO> ping imbrandon =)
<imbrandon> pong
<zul> imbrandon: btw are you available for some amd64 xen testing on edgy later this week?
<DBO> im sorry if Im out of touch with my project right now, just figured Id check with you, did you get the tarballs ok?
<imbrandon> zul: yup yup
<ajmitch> yay
<zul> imbrandon: sweet i think i might have narrowed down the problem
<ajmitch> now I don't have to be his testing b..
<ajmitch> yeah
<imbrandon> DBO: yup got them, they are acutaly building at home right now, have had the chance to look them over a great deal, but it looks tons better than the 0.1.2 release
<ajmitch> imbrandon: mesa-less?
<imbrandon> ajmitch: yup looks like it 
<DBO> imbrandon, we tried to listen to what you said
<imbrandon> :)
<bddebian> whoa ajmitch is back
<imbrandon> DBO: looks like you all did a bang up job comparitively
<imbrandon> like i said i still need to poke them a bit more, but i'm not cursing to myself this time ;)
<DBO> you might have trouble with heliodor and feisty
<DBO> this was an oversite and there will be a 0.1.3.1 release to fix the issue
<ajmitch> bddebian: I was back yesterday
<bddebian> ajmitch: Well what do I know? :-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: it's not like I disappeared for weeks
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> DBO: ok , i hadent made it that far, i mostly just messed with -core last night i was pretty tired when i got home
<DBO> kk
<imbrandon> going by my rate of working on them though i'd say tomarrow evening i should have useable debs ready 
<imbrandon> for peer review
<rmjb> man kobo deluxe is a really good game to pass the time while something's building :)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: assuming you get time to work on them without falling asleep
<ajmitch> imbrandon: you have an ubuntu workstation at work?
<imbrandon> yup , i'm on it now
<imbrandon> i'm trying to convince them to change all the XP workstations to kubuntu
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> the boss uses kubuntu at home , so i MIGHT if i can get it to authenticate by the domain etc
<ajmitch> what domain?
<ajmitch> AD?
<joejaxx> yay domain controllers
<joejaxx> hello everyone
<bddebian> Speaking of games.  Is there a clean way to have a development version of a package in the archive at the same time as the "stable" branch?
<joejaxx> too bad there is not a testing branch
<bddebian> joejaxx: No, I'm talking about libparagui atm :-)
<joejaxx> bddebian: i meant too bad there is not a testing repos :)
<bddebian> Ahh :-)
<joejaxx> inside the archive
<joejaxx> :)
<rmjb> bddebian: can you name the package foo-testing?
<rmjb> or foo-svn
<bddebian> Well I was thinking more like a different package name.  ie current stable package is libparagui1.0-dev so I was thinking something like libparagui1.1-dev or some such?
<imbrandon> ugh hold on a colgate server just lost some disks 
<imbrandon> brb
<rmjb> colgate server? he'l hosting unilever?
<rmjb> well package-dev already has a meaning :)
<bddebian> ajmitch: Care to weigh in? :)
<rmjb> sorry, read your statement wrong
<rmjb> yeah renaming the package should do the trick
<bddebian> Yeah but is it "valid"? :-)
<rmjb> and have a meta package named libfoo-stable that depends on the libfoo1.0
<rmjb> when 1.1 get's stable let it depend on 1,1
<rmjb> 1.1
<joejaxx> bddebian: what was the release you said to get? etch rc1?
<bddebian> joejaxx: I only ever ran unstable but I'm a psycho :-)
<joejaxx> well this is fun
<joejaxx> triple compiles of gcc
<joejaxx> bddebian: haha
<joejaxx> :)
<bddebian> ajmitch doesn't love me :-(
<joejaxx> bddebian: :(
<joejaxx> bddebian: where are the unstable images at?
<joejaxx> bddebian: they only have links to stable on the site at the current moment
<rmjb> hey LaserJock
<joejaxx> bddebian: or etch rather
<LaserJock> hi everybody
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<bddebian> joejaxx: Just install stable and change your sources.list :-)
<joejaxx> hello LaserJock 
<joejaxx> bddebian: oh ok :)
<joejaxx> gcc finally finished compiling
<joejaxx> lol
<sid> Why isn't xvidcap in Ubuntu? istanbul sucks, oggenc sucks up a lot of cpu and is buggy/doesn't work at all.
<sid> xvidcap dumps to mpeg-1 and works great, for people who want to make training videos for OpenOffice.org or other applications in Ubuntu to help others learn it..there is no viable option to do this. xvidcap is the answer imho.
<LaserJock> sid: it's on REVU
<sid> LaserJock: What is Revu?
<imbrandon> sid: i means its in the process of making its way into ubuntu
<LaserJock> !revu > sid 
<imbrandon> heya LaserJock 
<sid> Does Ubuntu have a debian-legal process?
<sid> Is there a lawyer at Canonical?
<sid> LaserJock: Where can I see this package?
<LaserJock> sid: no, I believe we rely on debian-legal and the archive admins
<LaserJock> Canonical probably has a lawyer
<sid> SFLC?
<Burgundavia> sid: why do you ask?
<LaserJock> but they would probably not be relevent to archive issues
<sid> Well xvidcap coveres some mpeg related patents
<sid> That's why Debian doesn't package it, iirc
<LaserJock> sid: on revu.tauware.de look up xvidcap
<sid> But since Ubuntu is in Europe, those patents don't apply.
<LaserJock> sid: and that's why it would be in Multiverse
<LaserJock> I beleive
<imbrandon> sid: yes but we try to follow dfsg when we can, also we have mirrors all over the world
<imbrandon> but there is always multiverse too
<imbrandon> .
<LaserJock> wow, impressive
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> heya LaserJock 
<imbrandon> do you have a deb of usable mdt>?
<imbrandon> wasent there a patch or something for it
<LaserJock> yeah
<imbrandon> still have that deb or dsc laying arroun d?
<LaserJock> hmm, let me see
<LaserJock> imbrandon: yeah, I found it
<imbrandon> rockin
<LaserJock> bzr branch at tiber.tauware.de/~laserjock/multidistrotools/
<imbrandon> nice , thanks
* jdong amusingly notes that his HDTV boots slower than his laptop
<zul> hey LaserJock 
<engla> whoa what a technology shift jdong 
<jdong> lol
<LaserJock> hi zul 
* jdong meanwhile tries to make flexbackup handle deleted files between dumplevels
<LaserJock> it's amazing how quickly stuff gets around on the internet :/
<zul> LaserJock: good weekend?
<jdong> would using a tar filelist and comm per snapshot be a sane idea?
<jdong> never mind :)
<jdong> that'd be a hackjob to implement
<jdong> grr
* jdong heads upstream
<LaserJock> zul: a guy made a science "apt-get" script like a month ago and called it Scibuntu
<LaserJock> now it's it has a mention in one of the 2 top science journals in the world and a sourceforge site
<zul> not bad..
<zul> or is it?
<LaserJock> I think it is
<LaserJock> but yah know, it's FLOSS
<LaserJock> the release I saw had typos on the package names so it wasn't even installing what he thought it was
<zul> hah
<LaserJock> and now he has claim over both "Scibuntu" and "Linux for Scientists"
<bddebian> You snooze, you loose baby :-)
<LaserJock> well, *I* didn't want it
<LaserJock> but I think it should go to the community
<LaserJock> ah well
<LaserJock> but the Journal mention was too much
<bddebian> :-)
<LaserJock> most grad students would kill to be in that journal
<LaserJock> oh well
* LaserJock cracks the whip on bddebian 
<LaserJock> mush!
<bddebian> For what?  You don't need me anymore :'-(
<LaserJock> hah
<LaserJock> bddebian: http://tiber.tauware.de/~laserjock/motuscience/bugs.html
* bddebian points at Fujitsu and minghua ;-P
* LaserJock points to bddebian 
<LaserJock> "MOTU Science wants YOU!"
<bddebian> Grr...
<bddebian> W: libparagui1.1: unused-shlib-entry-in-control-file libparagui-1.1 0
<bddebian> W: libparagui1.1: package-name-doesnt-match-sonames libparagui-1.1-8
<bddebian> I hate library packages :-(
<zul> heh "baby is jumping on body parts that shouldnt be jumped on"
<bddebian> They have a knack for doing that
<imbrandon> lol
<bddebian> How the hell do I fix those errors?
<LaserJock> is that lintian output?
<bddebian> Yeah, lintian or linda
<crimsun> imbrandon: got an amd64/feisty chroot?
<crimsun> a reasonably current one, that is
<bddebian> crimsun: Do you know what I need to do for those?  I'm not real hip on libs
<ajmitch> get the SONAME, make things match exactly
<LaserJock> crimsun, ajmitch: hi!
<bddebian> ajmitch: I know but how?
<crimsun> hi
<ajmitch> objdump -x lib |grep SONAME
<ajmitch> hey LaserJock 
<ajmitch> what's up?
<imbrandon> crimsun: no the only feist install i have is 32bit
<imbrandon> :(
<imbrandon> feisty*
<ajmitch> crimsun: you want one on my box?
<bddebian> ajmitch: afaict they do match :-(
<LaserJock> ajmitch: just grabing a little dinner and looking at some stuff
<ajmitch> crimsun: just unpacking it now, I'll do a quick dist-upgrade of a chroot
<crimsun> ajmitch: yes, please, thanks.
<ajmitch> afaik you still have an ssh key on my box
<joejaxx> anyone know of a good ide that is like codeblocks?
<bddebian> VisualStudio?
* bddebian hides
<joejaxx> rofl
* somerville32 m
<ajmitch> crimsun: should be ready in a couple of minutes
<ajmitch> done
<bddebian> ajmitch:   SONAME      libparagui-1.1.so.8  so should shlibs be libparagui-1.1 8 foo ?
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> see debian library packaging guide
<joejaxx> wow apparently glibc not compiling is an error in the source
<joejaxx> ls
<joejaxx> bah
<bddebian> Gah this makes no freakin' sense
<bddebian> Oohh, it should be libparagui-1.1.8.so.0 ?
<bddebian> ajmitch: Does that mean I have to fix the soname in the src?
<ajmitch> do what you need to do
* ajmitch is busy at work, needs to get stuff finished before going home
<bddebian> Never mind then thanks
<joejaxx> sudo ln -s /bin/bash /bin/sh?
<joejaxx> is that the fix?
<imbrandon> looks like the MBR 2TB limit is the main drawback but thats simple to get arround
<LaserJock> wah?
<imbrandon> errm
<imbrandon> _EWRONGWINDOW
<imbrandon> s/_E/-E/
<LaserJock> joejaxx: you should fix scripts to either not us bashisms or #! /bin/bash
<joejaxx> LaserJock: is that the fix for the sh-dash issue
<imbrandon> no joejaxx 
<imbrandon> the fix is to fix the scripts that use bash but call sh
<LaserJock> no, that circumvents the problems
<joejaxx> well
<LaserJock> but it's not the proper "fix"
<joejaxx> i am compilin glibc
<joejaxx> compiling*
<joejaxx> ln: creating symbolic link `/bin/sh' to `/bin/bash': File exists
<imbrandon> ln -sf
<imbrandon> e.g. "force" it, but thats the broken way to fix it
<bddebian> Grr
<LaserJock> joejaxx: I fail to see what you're doing. glibc has obviously compiled on a dash Ubuntu
<LaserJock> is this your "old world" experiment? :-)
<joejaxx> nope
<joejaxx> an entire operating system from the ground up
<LaserJock> LFS?
<bddebian> LaserJock: C'mon oh Godly one, help me here :-)
<joejaxx> LaserJock: that and completely written from scratch
<joejaxx> asm and c
<bddebian> scary
<joejaxx> why scary?
<bddebian> asm frightens me :)
<joejaxx> oh
<LaserJock> dude, I can barely do C++ and Python
* ajmitch can barely do BASIC
<imbrandon> peek poke pop push
<bddebian> C++ is second only to asm in the frightening category ;-P
<LaserJock> really?
<joejaxx> lloll
<joejaxx> what about ada
<joejaxx> or lisp
<LaserJock> it doesn't seem all that bad, but I haven't done much with it yet
<bddebian> LaserJock: For me.  For some reason C++ makes my head hurt
<bddebian> imbrandon: How much do you know about library packaging?
* jdong recalls being a C++ language lawyer in his earlier nerdy days
<LaserJock> darn it, I hate it how Ubuntu creates the extended partition to be the same size as logical partitions
* jdong recalls conspiring with his AP CS teacher to write evil test problems
<bddebian> heh
<jdong> cast the following function pointer to return int and take two voids and a struct foo*.....
<jdong> :D
<bddebian> heh
<jdong> ok, help me think thru this one...
<jdong> how bad is it to have deleted files magically pop back up after restoring a backup?
<jdong> I really don't feel like complicating my differential tar backups any more
<joejaxx> ajmitch: LaserJock imbrandon i need a way to diable agilx through the default-settings-packages
<joejaxx> any ideas on that one?
<Burgundavia> why do you want to disable aiglx?
<joejaxx> because we cannot use it anyway
<Burgundavia> leave it
<Burgundavia> it does nothing if you don't do anything with it
<joejaxx> i do not want it enabled by default on fluxbuntu feisty
<joejaxx> there was something else that crimsun told me i needed to change
<LaserJock> that seems pretty invasive
<joejaxx> what is invasive?
<Burgundavia> changed default X settings is something no other deriv does
<ajmitch> screwing up X config like that
<Burgundavia> in fact, they stay from changing stuff beneath "their stack"
<Burgundavia> it also means that you double the X debuggers work
<joejaxx> which derivatives are you talking about?
<Burgundavia> as they need to figure out whether aiglx has been enabled our not
* ajmitch still sees no compelling reason to disable AIGLX
<Burgundavia> kubuntu, xubuntu and edubuntu
<joejaxx> oh those
* bddebian still wants to know how to fix this sonames shit
<joejaxx> i was thinking derivatives in general
<imbrandon> nubuntu dosent either ( and is fluxbased )
<joejaxx> yes i know
<Burgundavia> as a derivative, you want to change as little as possible
<Burgundavia> as every change involves more work
<Burgundavia> something I think few people realize, when they are start making distros and derivs
<joejaxx> Burgundavia: you the project is not just about fluxbox?
<Burgundavia> joejaxx: yours?
<ajmitch> it's not like having AIGLX turned on in the X config should cause any issues
<joejaxx> yes
<Burgundavia> what else does it encompase?
<joejaxx> fluxbox is the last thing i care about in the project really
<Burgundavia> interesting...
<LaserJock> joejaxx: it's not that, it's that you are making changes to core packages for no obvious benefit
<joejaxx> Burgundavia: providing a desktop os for low end (and high end computer) and mobile devices
<Burgundavia> right, that is a totally different goal
<joejaxx> that is the main goal
<Burgundavia> and aiglx doesn't get in the way of any of that
<ajmitch> AIGLX exposes extra capabilities, it doesn't cause things to magically change
<ajmitch> the magic changes are when you using a compositing manager 
<LaserJock> can you resize a mounted ext3 extended partition?
<joejaxx> what else was changed in x from dapper to edgy?
<LaserJock> well, it's a whole new upstream release
<Burgundavia> joejaxx: suggest you start digging into X release notes
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: 
<joejaxx> LaserJock: maybe that is why my video does not come back in edgy when i close my laptop
<joejaxx> and i end up having to kill xserv
<Burgundavia> doubt it
<ajmitch> so fix the problems, rather than trying to hack around the symptoms
<Burgundavia> that is failure on resume, a completely seperate ball of wax
<ademan> joejaxx: did you install new nvidia drivers?
<joejaxx> no
<ademan> ok
<ademan> cause apparently they;ve got trouble resizing...
<joejaxx> Burgundavia: not resume
<ademan> hey you know i was wondering what exactly it means to be a motu, you just become the package maintainer for a few packages? or what?
<joejaxx> my laptop is still running while the lid is closed
<LaserJock> ademan: you maintain Universe and have upload rights to it
<ademan> does it mean you don't have to go through revu for new packages?
<bddebian> No
<ademan> oh ok lol
<jdong> LaserJock: you can expand an online mounted ext3 filesystem if you've reserved resize inodes
<jdong> LaserJock: if resize2fs refuses to grow an online fs that means no resize inodes were reserved
<jdong> (wow that sounds circular :D)
<ademan> well sometime in the next 6 months i may have a game, or at least a game engine + small example game ready for the repos, course, who knows if i'll make my own deadline
<jdong> LaserJock: unfortunately I don't think ubuntu's installer makes ext3 with reserved inodes
<jdong> but there is good news
<jdong> I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance
* jdong ducks
<LaserJock> well, I don't want resize the logical partition
<LaserJock> just the extended partition
<jdong> what are you trying to do?
<LaserJock> well during the Ubuntu install the stupid partitioner only made the extended partition /dev/hdb4 as large as the logical partition it contains
<crimsun> goodness, what a nasty version: 0.8.6-svn20061210.release.ubuntu-0ubuntu1
<Burgundavia> crimsun: last vlc is not much better
<Burgundavia> 0.8.6-svn20060918.debian-1ubuntu4
<jdong> lol
<jdong> let's add some more numbers
<jdong> could we make it the christmas edition too?
<bddebian> sweet
<crimsun> Burgundavia: well, I can't use 0.8.6+release, because I don't know if Sam is going to retain his current versioning scheme
<Burgundavia> jdong: http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:7JFjTtYWLwkJ:workshop.linspire.com/package-version-policy.html+linspire+version+numbers&hl=en&gl=ca&ct=clnk&cd=1
<Burgundavia> 2:1:1.0-0.0.2003.10.23-2-9.4.1. <-- one of the examples
<jdong> Burgundavia: holy.....
<jdong> those look like my original satirical backport version numbers
<Burgundavia> found that awhile back, page seems to be down now, but google cache saves us
<Burgundavia> read the FAQ, question 1
<jdong> 1:2.3.4-2ubuntu3~backported-from-5.04hoary-to-4.10warty-1
<jdong> :)
<jdong> the version number for the firefox 1.0 backport was so long that Java segfaulted trying to parse the version
<Burgundavia> ah, yes, backports
<Burgundavia> the bad old days
<Burgundavia> jdong: a shining example of how to work with the system
<jdong> :)
<jdong> it could've started working with the system...
<jdong> but nobody would listen
<jdong> oh well
<bddebian> la la la la
<jdong> at least we're all one happy family now :)
<jdong> but seriously, crimsun, can we please make vlc 0.8.6 the christmas edition? :D
<crimsun> is that a reference to the Ubuntu Christmas Edition?
<jdong> no
<jdong> there's a christmas edition now?
<jdong> isn't that other religious edition enough?
<crimsun> the grapevine tells me that someone released a Christmas Edition
<jdong> lol
<Burgundavia> anybody who wants a final spell/grammar check: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue24
<jdong> fascinating
<ajmitch> aka ubuntu+automatix
<crimsun> basically a remastered Ubuntu CD with lots of crack
<jdong> ajmitch: isn't that the doomsday edition?
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: hard to pick a few good programs to mention in this weeks merges?
<bddebian> crimsun: Come on man, help a dumb brother out..
* jdong admires the huge list of backports
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: this was actually not this weeks, but lasts
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: right
<Burgundavia> now we get to start writing this weeks
<ajmitch> time for me to get on top of the rest of the merges I have to do
<crimsun> Burgundavia: editing
<somerville32> crimsun, Fix the typo for "sneak peck" too
<crimsun> got it
<jdong> cool! there's a quiz show in my bashrc!
<bddebian> cool! No one wants to help me
<LaserJock> use the force bddebian 
<jdong> bddebian: I'm too busy being forced against my will to answer to corny nerd jokes
<LaserJock> did you look at the library guide?
<bddebian> Yeah
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> I'm just not very good with libraries, definately worse then you
<LaserJock> still getting the same 2 errors?
<bddebian> Yeah
* ajmitch returns
<imbrandon> runs
<imbrandon> man i'm soooo ready to go home and to bed 12 hour shifts suck
<ajmitch> hah
<ajmitch> when does it finish?
* imbrandon will never cover for a 12 hr shifrt again
<imbrandon> 1 more hour
<ajmitch> fun
<imbrandon> actualy 55 minutes ;)
<imbrandon> hehehe
* ajmitch is at home now, and still has work to be done before 8:30am
<imbrandon> then an hour drive home
<ajmitch> since I decided that it'd be better to work from home tonight than sit in the office
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> yea
<ajmitch> sit at my ubuntu box with nice screen, listen to music, etc
<imbrandon> if they would open the firewall for me to connect to the sip phone server from home i could work from home everyday
<imbrandon> well i'm the only one here so i have the tunes cranked
<imbrandon> i need to find a better way to get at my home music though
<imbrandon> i'm streaming it over http now with a webbrowser
<imbrandon> that sucks
<bddebian> Ever heard of a Radio? ;-P
<imbrandon> am radio
<imbrandon> heh radio sucks here
<imbrandon> well everywhere really
<bddebian> iPod, cd-player... :-)
<imbrandon> they never play what i wanna hear
<imbrandon> i have my ipod with me
<imbrandon> but it only holds 4GB
<imbrandon> :(
* ajmitch sits in silence at work
<jdong> ONLY 4GB?
<jdong> I cannot fill up my 2GB nano(s)
<imbrandon> jdong: i have over 200GB of music :)
<jdong> imbrandon: yer crazy :D
<imbrandon> thats not counting movies, or music videos
<imbrandon> thats audio only
<ajmitch> yeah, but with what you listen to..
<jdong> anyone have a good howto on the echo gibberish | dc trick?
<jdong> this stupid bashrc blackmail is only accepting dc gibberish at this point
<imbrandon> ajmitch: lol
<imbrandon> i listen to a little of everything
* imbrandon just downloaded a bunch of 70's rock tonight
* ajmitch is listening to some online radio of choral music
<imbrandon> somtimes i listen to a lastfm streeam or something, but i like picking and choosing what plays next
<ajmitch> this one is pretty good
<imbrandon> depending on my mood fopr the moment
<ajmitch> if you like that sort of music :)
<imbrandon> never heard any coral music that i know of 
<Burgundavia> choral, rather
<imbrandon> yea
<Burgundavia> unles you mean grinding pieces of dead animal together as "music"
<imbrandon> lol
<lotusleaf> <> harr, did somebody say grinding?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: what is it?
<somerville32> Is "" a skull?
<imbrandon> looks like a box to me ( in irssi )
<lotusleaf> somerville32: yes it is =)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: hm?
<LaserJock> imbrandon: you're clearly not using the right irssi settings
<Burgundavia> I see a skull
<Burgundavia> yarrr
<LaserJock> ajmitch: is there a link for the choral music
<ajmitch> LaserJock: http://www.live365.com/stations/vocideltesoro
<Burgundavia> anybody remember yarrr?
<ajmitch> not really
<ajmitch> I remember the little skull & crossbones on the wiki
<ajmitch> http://live.gnome.org/%E2%98%A0?action=show&redirect=Yarrr
<ajmitch> not too hard to find
<ajmitch> hello Hobbsee 
<imbrandon> LaserJock: lol
<imbrandon> one sec
<Burgundavia> it was live for a while
<LaserJock> ajmitch: what do you listen to it with?
<Burgundavia> basically RHs last crack idea, before they started Mugshot
<Hobbsee> hey ajmitch 
<ajmitch> LaserJock: anything that can take a .pls, like rhythmbox
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: I was thinking maybe it was a Novell project ;-)
<ajmitch> or even old xmms would do
<LaserJock> hmm, it doesn't play for me
* ajmitch uses mplayer because the cache size can be tuned
<LaserJock> it fires up rhythmbox but nothing's there
<bddebian> Hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey bddebian 
<Burgundavia> .pls works for me
<Burgundavia> listening to one right now
<ajmitch> it worked for me in rb, but stuttered sometimes because I couldn't adjust the cache size
<bddebian> Hobbsee: How's your library packaging foo? :-)
<Hobbsee> bddebian: very poor
<Burgundavia> bddebian: bug infinity
<bddebian> Goddamnit :-(
<Hobbsee> bddebian: i'ee seen there's a guide though
<bddebian> Oh yeah, he loves me :-)
<bddebian> Hobbsee: Yeah,, I've read it :-)
<ajmitch> yes, there certainly is a guide
<bddebian> Actually I've read it once before and twice tonight
<ajmitch> and the naming is still confusing you?
<imbrandon> LaserJock: http://voyager.imbrandon.com/misc/work_desktop.png , see a "box" not a skull in irssi
<bddebian> Only because I don't see why it's wrong the way it is
<ajmitch> well what is the package name, and what is the SONAME?
<bddebian>   SONAME      libparagui-1.1.so.8  package name is libparagui1.1
<ajmitch> so they don't match
<ajmitch> the packaging guide suggests something like libparagui1.1-8 in that case
<bddebian> WHy the hell not?  libparagui1.0 has libparagui-1.0.so.0
<ajmitch> because you're packaging something screwy
<bddebian> Meaning the existing package is probably incorrect as well?
<LaserJock> imbrandon: yes, you get that when irssi isn't set up with UTF-8 support
<ajmitch> maybe
<ajmitch> take gtk+ as an example
<ajmitch>   SONAME      libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0
<ajmitch> package is libgtk2.0-0
<ajmitch> that's slightly special because it has multiple libraries, but you get the picture for versioning
<bddebian> Right but then should the upstream soname here be libparagui-1.1.8.so.0 then?
<ajmitch> the .8 in the SONAME is significant
<ajmitch> not necessarily
<ajmitch> 1.1 is the code version, .8 being the ABI version
<ajmitch> just to be confusing
<ajmitch> however I'm probably completely wrong, and you can probably ignore me
<bddebian> SONAME	package name
<bddebian> libfoo-1.2.3.so.4	libfoo-1.2.3-4
<bddebian> libfoo-1.2.3.so	libfoo-1.2.3
<ajmitch> yeah
<bddebian> That is from the packaging guide
<ajmitch> and you have libfoo-x.y.so.8
<ajmitch> so package is libfoo-x.y-8
<bddebian> Right, which I'm saying is probably wrong upstream?
<ajmitch> maybe
<bddebian> So if I just change changelog to (1.1-8ubuntu1) I might be able to get away with it?
<ajmitch> it's probablu fine upstream, they're at least using an ABI version not linked to the upstream version number
<ajmitch> huh?
<ajmitch> where did you pull that version from?
<ajmitch> what is the actual upstream version?
<bddebian> How else do I fix it?  1.1.8
<imbrandon> LaserJock: heh
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I can give you my settings if you want
<ajmitch> so if upstream version is 1.1.8, you have to use 1.1.8-XubuntuY in the changelog
<ajmitch> tending to be -0ubuntu1, as usual
<bddebian> Which is what I have currently
<mneptok> XubuntuY sounds like someone is trying XFCE and spitting.
<ajmitch> but it's not complaining about the version number, but the naming
<bddebian> Are you just saying the package name should be libparagui1.1-8?
<ajmitch> yes, I've said that a few times
<bddebian> Gah, damn I'm slow
<bddebian> Though I must say I've never seen a package named that way that I can think of off the top of my head
<ajmitch> I just gave you an example (gtk+)
<ajmitch> +libparagui-1.1 8 libparagui1.1-8 (>= 1.1.8)
<ajmitch> NB: I just googled & found someone's packaging of 1.1.8
<bddebian> I asked you that ages ago and you said no
<ajmitch> partly because they haven't used the libparagui1.1-8 naming
* ajmitch shrugs
<ajmitch> as I said, I'm probably wrong, don't bother asking me
<bddebian> OK.  Last question.  In debian/control, the actual package name should be libparagui1.1-8  and libparagui1.1-8-dev?
<ajmitch> don't need to have the -8 in a -dev package
<ajmitch> you can probably do it if you want
<bddebian> OK, fair enough, thanks man, sorry
* ajmitch hasn't had much reason to do silly libraries
<ajmitch> worst I've done was multiple libraries in a package, with libfoo.so.3.0 as SONAME, not .3
* ajmitch wonders why he's got no mail on the ubuntu-devel list
<ajmitch> have people just stopped posting now that it's moderated?
<bddebian> Shit, it's almost 1am
* ajmitch has subscribed to -discuss as well
<imbrandon> i havent taken the time to yet
<imbrandon> i need to
* ajmitch presumes that noone reads -devel-announce 
<imbrandon> i do
<ajmitch> imbrandon: it'll be the place for the boring, looong threads
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> one of a few
<ajmitch> so that we can actually have a usable -devel
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> i seen mdz's mail about it a few days ago
<imbrandon> i just havent done it yet
<imbrandon> done it == wsubscribed
<imbrandon> s/w///
<ajmitch> I guess that most people won't read devel-announce though
<imbrandon> i thought he sent it to -devel too 
<imbrandon> i might be wrong
<ajmitch> possibly
* ajmitch checks archive
<ajmitch> ah, he did
<bddebian> I seem MoM is still out of date :-(
<ajmitch> yep, annoying
* ajmitch is hungry
<imbrandon> woot 15 more minutes 
<imbrandon> ok i'm gonna start shutting down, see yall in about an hour when i get home
<bddebian> Later imbrandon
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: basically, yes, although there were 200 unmoderated messages before the change
* ajmitch goes to rot his brains out
<Burgundavia> most of those were spam, but some of their will real messages
<Burgundavia> them were, rather
<ajmitch> ah, forums
<ajmitch> great place to relax & laugh
<lotusleaf> has anyone here used bootcd (!bootcd for info) to make their own livecd? I was thinking of doing that to show off beryl on ubuntu to some friends
<bddebian> w000t
* bddebian hugs ajmitch
<bddebian> Gnight gang
<Admiral_Chicago> hmm, i'm not sure where to ask this questions I want to make a wiki page to track all the work I do (for Ubuntu membership) and I've looked for a while but can't find a guide
<LaserJock> Admiral_Chicago: generally we do that at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FirstnameLastename
<Admiral_Chicago> LaserJock, thanks that's what I wanted to do.
<somerville32> tsk tsk LaserJock :P
<imbrandon> re
<Admiral_Chicago> ?
<Burgundavia> somerville32: -devel moderation appears to be happening right now
<somerville32> Hmm?
<Burgundavia> your main inclusion report just came through
<somerville32> Oh, cool :] 
<somerville32> Who approved it?
<Burgundavia> not approved, passed through moderation
<Admiral_Chicago> can someone tell me if this is a good start for a wiki for Membership?
<Admiral_Chicago> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreddyMartinez
<Burgundavia> I assume one of the canonical admins
<Admiral_Chicago> i know this channel isn't really for this stuff, just not sure where these ??s go
<Admiral_Chicago> Burgundavia, thanks, brb
<Burgundavia> Admiral_Chicago: looks good
<Burgundavia> Admiral_Chicago: sorry, that wasn't directed at you
<Burgundavia> the canonical admin comment, that is
<Admiral_Chicago> kk
<Burgundavia> Admiral_Chicago: join me -marketing?
<imbrandon> ugh something else to "fix" because of icewaezle
<imbrandon> Setting up sun-java5-plugin (1.5.0-10-0ubuntu1) ...
<imbrandon> update-alternatives: unable to make /usr/lib/iceweasel/plugins/libjavaplugin.so.dpkg-tmp a symlink to /etc/alternatives/iceweasel-javaplugin.so: No such file or directory
<imbrandon> dpkg: error processing sun-java5-plugin (--configure):
* imbrandon rolls eyes
<crimsun> imbrandon: there's already a sync request for that.
<imbrandon> ahh nice ok
<imbrandon> thanks crimsun i was just looking
<imbrandon> wouldent a sync still be broken though ?
<imbrandon> e.g still use iceweazle 
<Burgundavia> yay for debian and mozilla stupidness
* imbrandon is trying out Carthik's dvd script
<imbrandon> welp i'm off to sleepy yall
<imbrandon> see ya in a few hours
<imbrandon> gnight Burgundavia crimsun ajmitch 
<Burgundavia> night imbrandon
<crimsun> 'night
<zakame> hi all
<dholbach> good morning
<zakame> hello prince dholbach :)
<Gloubiboulga> morning dholbach, morning zakame 
<dholbach> haha zakame - hey Gloubiboulga :)
<zakame> yo Gloubiboulga 
<ajmitch> hey dholbach, *
<dholbach> hey Andrew
<dholbach> how's it going guys?
* ajmitch is doing ok
* Gloubiboulga as well
<zakame> hello ajmitch 
<ajmitch> hey zakame 
<ajmitch> dholbach: how goes world domination?
* zakame starts another round of merging
<dholbach> ajmitch: ROAR! Good, how else? ;-)
<ajmitch> excellent :)
* Fujitsu wakes up.
<lfittl> who do I ask again when I need a failed build to be tried again?
<Fujitsu> lfittl: infinity or similar.
<lfittl> thanks
<AnAnt> hello
<superm1> hey guys, whats the "proper" way to handle if a package should be "replacing" a config file in /etc.  Say you want that package to divert the old one, and install its own.  Should it just be to dpkg-divert on a preinstall script, install its own and then undo the dpkg-divert afterwords in a postrm?
<AnAnt> what should compat, Standards-Version, debhelper versions be when making a new package for Feisty ?
<Fujitsu> AnAnt: 5, 3.7.2, 5
<superm1> i think 5, 3.7.2 5
<AnAnt> ok
<AnAnt> thanks
<Gloubiboulga> why the hell autotools.mk doesn't want to run ./configure for this package???
<Fujitsu> Iiiinteresting...
<somerville32> dholbach, The MOTU school should hold a session on the new python policy and how to comply with it <g>
<dholbach> somerville32: are you volunteering?
<somerville32> Not at all. I'm looking to benefit from such a lecture <g>
<dholbach> :)
<somerville32> :] 
<somerville32> Welps, I need some sleep
<somerville32> It is now almost 6am
<zakame> hm 12-h difference here, almost nightfall :D
<zakame> time to partei!
<Gloubiboulga> s/partei/fix bugs ;)
<zakame> can't fix bugs while partying? :P
<Gloubiboulga> hehe :)
<somerville32> It's always a party here in Ubuntuland
<somerville32> Gloubiboulga, How much time weekly do you devote to Ubuntu?
* Admiral_Chicago does about 10
<zakame> 10 days per week?
<zakame> err ECHAN
<Admiral_Chicago> 10 hours
<Gloubiboulga> somerville32: really active time, or include irc? :)
<somerville32> I tried to cut back this week and I still ended up with over 50 hours :(
<Gloubiboulga> including*
* somerville32 is addicted.
* Fujitsu has been addicted for some time... ANd my year 12 results show it :S
<Fujitsu> I got well over what I needed, but a lot less than I expected.
<Gloubiboulga> these xfce merges were not as easy as expected :/
<zakame> Gloubiboulga: how come?
<Gloubiboulga> zakame: different archives in ubuntu and debian
<Fujitsu> Fun fun
<Gloubiboulga> yep, that's really annoying
<zakame> do it for the love ;)
<Admiral_Chicago> we get a lot of that in the bug reports "merge this and that package"
<Gloubiboulga> :)
<Admiral_Chicago> it's really a wishlist thing, I'd change them but i'm not on bug QA, just bug squad
<Gloubiboulga> they are usually reported by MOTU hopefuls who try to help
<Gloubiboulga> so they are not "real" bugs, but an easy way to say "hey, I've done this, please upload" :)
<Admiral_Chicago> Gloubiboulga: no i mean in the bug report, QA team can change the bug report to WL.
<Admiral_Chicago> yes i know that
<Gloubiboulga> Admiral_Chicago: sure, but is it really usefull?
<Admiral_Chicago> yes and no
<Gloubiboulga> the bugs are often closed quite quickly
<Gloubiboulga> (thanks crimsun ;)
<Admiral_Chicago> as a bug report, no. as a system for user feedback on what packages need to be merged, yes
<Admiral_Chicago> well off to do my calculus
<Admiral_Chicago> Intergral by substitution iirc
<Admiral_Chicago> which i don't which is a problem
<Admiral_Chicago> intergration by substitution...okay time to do this. later all
<zakame> later Admiral_Chicago 
<Admiral_Chicago> no way, it looks like the translation for dappen into spanish is almost all done
<zakame> hi anibal 
<anibal> hi zakame 
* Fujitsu screams: more Scibuntu!
<Fujitsu> Hm, doesn't seem as bad in this iteration.
<Fujitsu> OK, I revoke that previous comment...
<Fujitsu> It's even more revolting, yay!
<elmargol> Do we have any special autoconf or automake changes on edgy? I try to build gift-ares and ./configure fails :(
<azeem> elmargol: are you running autoconf/automake during the build process?
<dholbach> elmargol: anything interesting in   config.log  ?
<Sp4rKy> siretart: ping
<siretart> Sp4rKy: You sent me a contentless ping.  This is a contentless pong.  Please provide a bit of information about what you want and I'll respond when I am around.
<elmargol> i just did ./configure
<azeem> elmargol: then it shouldn't be dependent on auto*
<dholbach> I suggest checking config.log - maybe you're missing build-depends
<elmargol> checking whether the C compiler works... configure: error: cannot run C compiled programs.
<elmargol> thats the error message
<StevenK> I bet you're missing build-essential, in fact
<azeem> do you have build-essential installed?
* StevenK high fives azeem
<elmargol> i think i fixed the problem :/
<elmargol> The src was on a nfs location :(
<guibis> Hi Doko i have received your mail .... i will do it ..
* proppy hugs dholbach
* dholbach hugs proppy back
* dholbach hugs Hobbsee too
* Hobbsee hugs dholbach!
<Hobbsee> just dont step on my poor foot
<dholbach> what happened?
<Hobbsee> massive sunburn
* Hobbsee has been limping around work
<sivang> Hobbsee: you should know better then getting sun burnt!
* sivang is disappointed
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: that was silly
* dholbach hugs Hobbsee
<dholbach> hope you get better soon
<ajmitch> yay, now Hobbsee won't be kicking me :)
<Hobbsee> sivang: yes....but it was so nice and warm...
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: i still have one good foot
<ajmitch> darn
<Hobbsee> heh
<sivang> Hobbsee: take care next time, sun is no game, realy.
<sivang> anyway, launchtime
<Hobbsee> yeah, exactly
<Hobbsee> enjoy lunch
<proppy> Hobbsee: how can one's foot become sun burnt in winter ?
<Hobbsee> proppy: it's summer here - i'm in australia
* Fujitsu attacks proppy with a you're-on-the-wrong-side-of-the-planet stick.
* proppy hugs Hobbsee's sick foot
<proppy> Fujitsu: aouch
* Fujitsu now goes to bed.
<Hobbsee> hehe
<fernando> moin all
<Hobbsee> hey fernando 
<fernando> hey Sarah =)
<zul> morning
<Hobbsee> hey zul 
<zul> hey Hobbsee 
<ajmitch> hi zul 
<zul> hey
<zul> off to work
* proppy hugs dholbach
* proppy hugs Hobbsee's foot
* dholbach hugs proppy back
* ajmitch should probably head off to bed & finish this work in the morning :)
<Admiral_Chicago> ajmitch: sleep if for the weak, and the uncaffinated
<ajmitch> Admiral_Chicago: or for those that have to get up for work in ~4 hours
<Admiral_Chicago> ajmitch: i have to go to class in 30 minutes, no sleep at all
<Admiral_Chicago> :
<ajmitch> class is different, you can sleep through it
<Admiral_Chicago> ajmitch: i really can't i need to pay attention in some of them. for once that is
<zul> ajmitch: slacker
<ajmitch> zul: yeah I know
* ajmitch wanders off for some rest
<ajmitch> I'll hate myself later in the day, but who cares
<divansantana> hi can someone here please help me :)
<divansantana> i have to rebuild squid with the --enable-follow-x-forwarded-for optionn
<divansantana> I don't know howto do this
<divansantana> am trying to apt-get source squid
<divansantana> then did a ./configure --enable-follow-x-forwarded-for
<divansantana> then how do i make a deb package so can install squid with this option?
<divansantana> Pretty please, this is not in my expertise :)
<geser> divansantana: look in debian/rules for the configure call and add your option
<geser> note: I haven't looked how exactly squid is packaged
<divansantana> hi geser:
<divansantana> i think I know howto rebuild squid with that option
<divansantana> I do a ./configure --enable-follow-x-forwarded-for
<divansantana> geser: but then how do make a deb file to install??
<geser> when building a deb debian/rules (a Makefile) will be used
<geser> this includes also a call to ./configure and overwriting your run
<geser> you will need to modify it there if you want a deb
<divansantana> do  I do a make after that?
<divansantana> is there a website somewhere that will show me how?
<geser> debian/rules will do the necessary steps to produce a deb
<geser> install the build-depends (apt-get build-dep squid)
<geser> modify debian/rules
<divansantana> I don't know how to modify that file
<divansantana> done apt-get build-dep squid already
<divansantana> then I cd'ed into squid-2.6.1
<divansantana> and did a ./configure --enable-follow-x-forwarded-for
<divansantana> and now?
<geser> this doesn't work, debian/rules will call configure again
<geser> divansantana: sorry, I've to leave now
<divansantana> ok bummer swear its something easy like
<divansantana> dpkg-buildpackage 
<divansantana> ?
<divansantana> o wel :(
<geser> yes, it's dpkg-buildpackage -b
<geser> but this will run debian/rules
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Gloubiboulga> hello bddebian 
<bddebian> Hi Gloubiboulga
<sistpoty> hi folks
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi bddebian: 
<bddebian> Holy crap is REVU full again.. :-(
<sistpoty> yes :/
<zul> get busy bddebian 
<bddebian> I'm following your lead zul ;-P
<zul> cant have bigger fishies to fry
<dholbach> sistpoty: Tollef asked me, who to ask if a -backport request would be a better -updates candidate
<dholbach> sistpoty: I said that it might be good to subscribe 'motu-sru'
<dholbach> sistpoty: next thing I heard was you slapping me... let's discuss :)
<sistpoty> dholbach: well, motu-sru takes only care to accept/reject given sru's ;)
<dholbach> sistpoty: I don't think that it'll happen often - how else could we handle such requests?
<dholbach> sistpoty: (and I really don't want to put more workload on you guys - I even tried to save you from being subscribed to random bugs of packages that happened to go into -updates) :)
<sistpoty> :)
<sistpoty> dholbach: the problem is that there are two parts of work for an sru
<dholbach> right
<sistpoty> dholbach: the one thing is preparing it, getting it into -proposed, finding ppl. who test it, and doing the final upload to -updates
<dholbach> ok, so it'd be better to ask people to write to ubuntu-motu@ about that?
<sistpoty> dholbach: imo that's s.th. the motu-sru team could not handle...
<dholbach> ok
<sistpoty> dholbach: not quite sure... maybe assign to -motu (though that won't result in much) or form another team?
<dholbach> better to write to the mailing list
<sistpoty> maybe...
<dholbach> alright
<sistpoty> (as a side note, I've been unsubscribing motu-sru from all these requests which had missing info last week :P)
<dholbach> ok, that's fine
<dholbach> super
<jdong> is the process for MOTU SRU documented?
<sistpoty> jdong: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU
<jdong> is there any group I can subscribe that is willing to help prepare debdiffs?
<sistpoty> jdong: not really... I just sent a mail to ubuntu-motu for two bugs that need an assignee, maybe you could do so as well?
<jdong> :-/
<jdong> hmm
<jdong> well for me, needing to divert requests to SRU will be a regular occurrence
<jdong> it'd be better if there were some sort of standardized policy
<jdong> apart from just opening a Ubuntu ticket and watch it collect dust for 8 months
<sistpoty> jdong: hm... yep, maybe we could need a team of ppl. to do that after all
<jdong> that would be great
<zul> sistpoty: do we have the man power for that or the interest?
<sistpoty> zul: not quite sure actually... 
<jdong> if we don't have the manpower, then I'm going to have to defy ubuntu-archive and continue to do bugfixes thru backporting
<sistpoty> jdong: imo you're completely right if it comes to "this bug is fixed within a new upstream version", because then it's much more tedious to backport individual stuff
<jdong> really all I need is for a MOTU to say that
<jdong> that is, too tedious to backport fix
<jdong> and then you guys are off the hook and ubuntu-archive will let me continue the backport
<sistpoty> jdong: yay! ;)
<jdong> which brings back the question.... so who can I subscribe to get that kind of evaluation on SRU candidacy
<sistpoty> jdong: tough question: from a motu-sru POV I can and will give you answers to the question "is this proposed debdiff valid" or "is an update from x.y to x.z valid for sru"
<sistpoty> jdong: but the answer may as well be "no, you should backport individual patches and come back later"
<sistpoty> jdong: so basically every solid bug *can* be fixed with an sru, if s.o. is willing to do the work... and that's outside the scope of motu-sru
<sistpoty> (except wishlist bugs of course ;)
<sistpoty> jdong: I guess for some basic advice, you can safely subscribe motu-sru, but I don't want it to be abused for "there is a bug in edgy/dapper, please fix it". I guess we wouldn't be very productive then any longer.
<dholbach> lfittl: you have such a funny hackergotchi in launchpad :-)
<bddebian> Ah, lfittl is still around? :-)
<jdong> sistpoty: ok, given that, I'll first try to get in contact with the last-changed-by
<jdong> sistpoty: and subscribe you guys as a last resort
<jdong> thanks for your time and understanding
<sistpoty> jdong: ok, great, thanks!
<sistpoty> no problem ;)
<Zic_> Hi, I would like to be allowed in the REVU team for upload my packages, I was registered in the team of launchpad.net, and now, I ask here for sync the keyring, any admins ?
<sistpoty> Zic_: what's your lp name?
<Zic_> it's "zic" with the good casse :)
<sistpoty> Zic_: alright, I'll update the keyring
<Zic_> sistpoty: thanks ! You are too fast :)
<sistpoty> Zic_: no problem ;)
<sistpoty> Zic_: this will take 5 minutes or so, then you should be able to upload to revu
<Zic_> ok :)
<Czessi> Hi, any MOTU here, who can review a package?
<dholbach> hey Czessi
<dholbach> Czessi: how's it going?
<dholbach> long time no see :)
<Zic_> davromaniak: hey :)
<Czessi> Hi dholbach, the last time i was very busy
<davromaniak> hey Zic_ 
* Gloubiboulga hugs all the REVU uploader :)
<dholbach> Czessi: how are you today? :)
<Gloubiboulga> uploaders*
<Gloubiboulga> even if it gives us some work :p
<Gloubiboulga> Czessi: what's your package?
<davromaniak> I'm going to shave my face, bbl
<Czessi> dholbach: in 2 hours I must go to my working place :(
<Czessi> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3713
<dholbach> Czessi: all the best with that!
<Czessi> dholbach: thanks. 
<sistpoty> Zic_: keyring update done
<Zic_> sistpoty: thanks, I will look at
<Czessi> Gloubiboulga: which you mean with " debian/changelog: "linitian" "
<Gloubiboulga> Czessi: you wrote "debian/linitan:" in the changelog
<Gloubiboulga> the file is "debian/lintian"
<Czessi> Gloubiboulga: ups ;) i'll upload the new source in a few minutes
<Gloubiboulga> ok :)
<Czessi> Gloubiboulga: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3734
<rmjb> hey guys
<bddebian> Heya rmjb
<rmjb> I've a question about binary builds
<rmjb> how long after a source package gets uploaded does the binary deb take to make it into the archive?
<rmjb> I want to do some testing...
<Gloubiboulga> Czessi: ok, I'm preparing the diner, I'll upload in a moment ;)
<Czessi> Gloubiboulga: great, thanks :-)
<rmjb> for example the update source package for dmraid was uploaded on Saturday, but on packages.ubuntu.com it's still the previous version
<Burgwork> robitaille: odd time of the morning for you to be on
<robitaille> Burgwork: I'm at work...don't tell the taxpayers :)
<Burgwork> don't tell my boss :)
<ajmitch> morning
<zul> hey ajmitch 
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch you stud :)
<rmjb> just found this wiki page btw: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BddebianIsAGod
<bddebian> ajmitch: Wanna review my libparagui1.1? :))
<ajmitch> hahaha
<ajmitch> no
<bddebian> :'-(
<ajmitch> it's 7AM
* ajmitch goes & gets ready for work
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<zul> hi lj
<LaserJock> hi bddebian and zul
<bddebian> Hmm, is anyone left on the games team?
<sistpoty> hi LaserJock, bddebian
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty
<sistpoty> bddebian: I'm left, but don't have much time atm :( (diploma thesis)
<bddebian> sistpoty: No worries, I was just looking for someone to review my libparagui1.1 becuase it's needed for a FreeLords games that I want to bring in. :)
<geser> rmjb: dmraid is sitting in the new queue https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/feisty/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=dmraid
<proppy> how often does the build daemon run ?
<sistpoty> bddebian: I'm just taking a look, actually ;)
<bddebian> proppy: It pretty much never stops
<sistpoty> bddebian: but I haven't reviewed packages for some time now, so don't expect the results to be very good ;)
<bddebian> Heh, no worries
<rmjb> thanks geser, I was looking at the build for feisty yesterday but didn't see it... guess it take a couple days
<proppy> bddebian: the build on poker-engine package failed at December 6th, because of a missing dependencie which was Synced the 7th
<geser> rmjb: usually not, but the udeb (dmraid-udeb) is new and needs to be accepted
<bddebian> proppy: Is it sitting in Dep-Wait?
<proppy> bddebian: Builds of poker-engine - 1.0.20-1 * feisty i386 Dependency wait
<proppy> 
<proppy> Status:  	 Dependency wait
<bddebian> You might have to request that it be cleared
<proppy> where ?
<bddebian> I'm not sure who is doing that anymore :-(
<LaserJock> dholbach: ping
<LaserJock> proppy: how long has it been in dep wait?
<proppy> LaserJock: since December 6th i guess
<proppy> LaserJock: all the dependencie chain is in dep wait
<proppy> https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/282344
<proppy> https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/282340
<proppy> and the most inner dependencie
<proppy> is fine
<dholbach> LaserJock: pong
<proppy> https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/283351
<proppy> so i guess it's only a matter of requestion the build of poker-engine, the poker-network
<proppy> maybe it's only a matter of time, i don't know, what is the process for such a request
<sistpoty> bddebian: the libparagui-1.1-8 package is empty, also I think you got the depends line wrong (the -dev depends on libparagui1.1 instead of libparagui1.1-8)
<bddebian> It's empty? WTF.. Hmm, thanks sistpoty
<sistpoty> bddebian: at least on amd64
<zorglu_> http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html <- the table of content doesnt match the document behind it. e.g http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-chap.html is not in the toc
<LaserJock> zorglu_: nifty I must have broken it :-)
<zorglu_> :)
<LaserJock> or somebody did anyway
* proppy hugs dholbach
* dholbach hugs proppy back
<rmjb> hey dholbach thanks for the revu :)
<proppy> hugging is better than thanking :)
<dholbach> rmjb: no prob :)
* rmjb hugs dholbach 
<rmjb> :)
* dholbach hugs rmjb back
<dholbach> rock on
<proppy> yeah
<ajmitch> hey dholbach 
<dholbach> heya ajmitch
<LaserJock> rmjb: I'm on it, should be uploaded in a few minutes
<rmjb> whoo hoo! my first package :)
<rmjb> this weekend has been good for me
<rmjb> not counting the bad call on the sync I recommended yesterday :(
<rmjb> all the same
<Adri2000> LaserJock: pleeeeaaase :) could you re-revu homebank, I fixed what you asked: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3706
* rmjb hugs LaserJock 10 times for good mentoring :)
<LaserJock> Adri2000: I'll put it next on the todo ;-)
<LaserJock> rmjb: thanks for contributing, it's what Ubuntu rock
<LaserJock> *what makes
<Karlik> Hello. Can anybody help me? I have three files kdeedu_3.5.5-0ubuntu1.diff.gz kdeedu_3.5.5.orig.tar.gz kdeedu_3.5.5-0ubuntu1.dsc. And I want to build a packege. What command i must to write
<LaserJock> Karlik: you just want to rebuild it without any modification?
<Adri2000> LaserJock: thanks
<plugwash> dpkg-source -x kdeedu_3.5.5-0ubuntu1.dsc
<plugwash> cd kdeedu-3.5.5
<plugwash> dpkg-buildpackage
<Karlik> dpkg-source: error: file kdeedu_3.5.5.orig.tar.gz has size 32577712 instead of expected 32562268
<Karlik> I change some files in source
<rmjb> Karlik: try giving this page a read :) https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-scratch.html
<rmjb> See secton on Building the Source Package at the end... that's what you need to do
<rmjb> to recreate the .dsc file
<Karlik> thanks
<rmjb> the entire page is a good overview though, so if you can, you should read it
<LaserJock> rmjb: done :-)
<somerville32> If a program comes with it's own config script, compile script, and install script... should I make use of them or disregard them and use the debian rules?
<LaserJock> use them
<LaserJock> from debian rules
* somerville32 nods.
<somerville32> Ok
<LaserJock> rules is just there to guide the packaging process, upstream build scripts are generally pretty good
<LaserJock> so generally it would be wasted effort to build your own
<rmjb> LaserJock: thanks!
<LaserJock> Adri2000: why did you make a -data package
<Adri2000> LaserJock: because there is 2M of arch-indep files
<Sp4rKy> who is the REVU ml admin ?
<dholbach> LaserJock: I don't know which package you are referring to, but in the GNOME world we have a bunch of them, because then you don't have to have all the arch independent stuff on all the mirrors
<LaserJock> yeah, it just didn't seem like that much to me
* ajmitch hates tuesdays
<somerville32> ajmitch: Good thing it is Monday, eh? :] 
<ajmitch> for you, perhaps
<somerville32> It's Tuesday already? : (
<zul> in nz
<zul> something called timezones ;)
<somerville32> haha, I just woke up
<somerville32> Then again... it is already 3pm here
<LaserJock> Adri2000: done, thanks
<Adri2000> ok LaserJock, thank you for advocating :)
<somerville32> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3644
<somerville32> I'm not sure what he means by removing those files
<Adri2000> somerville32: they are files created during the build, and must be removed at the end of the build, so you have to rm them during the clean rule in debian/rules
<somerville32> All the *.in ones come with the original source
<crippledcanary> Could someone have a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3736
<crippledcanary> I think I have fixed all things commented about
<Adri2000> somerville32: hmm yeah strange
<Adri2000> crippledcanary: the diff.gz is missing
<crippledcanary> Sorry... it should have been there... will upload again.
<crippledcanary> Check http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3737 it has the diff.gz
<_DvP_> hello crippledcanary, just a little thing...I'm not MOTU but I think that it should be feisty in debian/changelog instead of edgy
<Sp4rKy> siretart: are you here ?
<_DvP_> and the section should be "editors" instead of gnome ?
<Sp4rKy> does anyone here know how start revu report with REVU ?
<Sp4rKy> (it's on my server)
<crippledcanary> So uploading for edgy is not possible? I'm new at this..
<zul> correct
<ajmitch> Sp4rKy: you run it from the commandline, not the web interface
<davromaniak> nobody speaks japanese here ?
<Sp4rKy> ajmitch: do you know what script exactly ? revu-review ?
<ajmitch> revu-report, iirc
* ajmitch hasn't used it for awhile
<Sp4rKy> k thx
* somerville32 wonders if he should upgrade to Feisty.
<somerville32> Do I need to use dh_pysupport and/or dh_pycentral if the package doesn't have any modules?
<crimsun> somerville32: most probably, yes.
<crimsun> It's very, very rare that a python package will not need to invoke one.
<somerville32> dh_py* compile packages included with the source
<somerville32> And move them around
<somerville32> And install them
<somerville32> (or so that my understanding)
<crimsun> yes, and there are very, very few packages that don't install .pys
<somerville32> Well, this is one of those packages :P
<crimsun> (alsa-utils is the only one I can think of right off the bat that doesn't need dh_py*, though I'm sure there are others)
<crimsun> what does it install?
<somerville32> .pyc
<crimsun> err...
<crimsun> to where does it install?
<crimsun> it'd be very, very suspicious to generate a .pyc without needing dh_py*
<somerville32>         install *.pyc $(DESTDIR)/$(PREFIX)/lib/pyNeighborhood
<crimsun> ouch, messy.
<crimsun> ideally that needs to be converted to use one of python-{central,support}
<lifeless> messy and wrong
<lifeless> .pyc's are specfic to the python ABI in use
<lifeless> its *possible* for a point release of python to change the ABI and thus invalidate all pyc's.
<crimsun> this is one of the major, if not -the-, reasons why python-{central,support} exists
<somerville32> They do that upstream
<somerville32> How do I go around it? Should I modify the source?
<lifeless> upstream are allowed to do that, but foolish. What they should do is have a setup.py and chain into that from Makefile, or if they are using automake, use its support.
<lifeless> somerville32: as long as they install the .py its easy: 
<somerville32> They don't install the .py
<somerville32> They only install the .pyc
<lifeless> well, thats what you need to address.
<lifeless> I would fix it in the main codebase and send them a patch.
<lifeless> and a flame/
<ajmitch> morning lifeless 
<somerville32> Will I get in trouble when I upload it to REVU for make modifications outside of debian/ ?
<somerville32> Or should I just ignore their script and do things correct in debian/rules ?
<lifeless> tchau
<lifeless> somerville32: making changes outside debian/ is entirely appropriate when upstream is broken
<lifeless> somerville32: if you are using a patch system, you are doing that, just less visibly.
<lifeless> gotta run, aikido, bye.
* somerville32 waves.
<tsmithe> byes
<plugwash> i presume the reasons for using the patch system are 1: its easier to keep changes for different purposes seperate 2: it's easier to move to a new upstream version
<dholbach> night folks
<ajmitch> night daniel
<tsmithe> night
<dholbach> night Andrew, night tsmithe
<dholbach> *wave*
<somerville32> Should I set it up like galternatives?
* tsmithe waves back
<tsmithe> oh i'm slow again
<LaserJock> Sp4rKy: do you have revu-tools installed?
<LaserJock> bah, I need to read the whole backlog before I type
<tsmithe> yay! backlogs!
<Sp4rKy> LaserJock: yep
<Sp4rKy> LaserJock: a strange thing when i start the script
<Sp4rKy> it says there is no .deb 
<Sp4rKy> whereas i start revu-buld, which should create the deb :)
<somerville32> crimsun: I don't think I'm getting this.
<somerville32> What if I disabled compiling the python to .pyc?
<somerville32> Wouldn't that solve all my problems? <g>
<LaserJock> somerville32: but you said they didn't ship .py
<somerville32> I said they don't install .pyc
<somerville32> ERr..
<somerville32> .py
<LaserJock> ah, there you go then
<somerville32> Sweet :] 
<LaserJock> do they use a setup.py or Makefile or ?
<somerville32> Makefile
* somerville32 has to run. Will read backlog
<LaserJock> so patch the Makefile to not build the .pyc and use python-central or python-support
<bddebian> d00d, wtf?
<jdong> bddebian: there's this really cool TCP RST flood button in ettercap
* jdong whistles innocently
<bddebian> jdong: :)
<jdong> one side effect is that it kinda disconnected all 8000 peers from my Casino Royale torrent
<jdong> (j/k of course)
<bddebian> hehe
<proppy> pirates!
<jdong> proppy: that's the other torrent going; using Deluge to deal with that one
<proppy> jdong: dunno what you are talking about, I'm not involved in anything beginning by Tor and finishing by rent
<proppy> :)
<jdong> lol
* jdong has acidrip hotkeyed
<proppy> btw, is there a patent for a technology that helps to distribute copyrighted material over the net ?
<jdong> proppy: good question... I don't know if any BitTorrent or eDonkey or Kazaa, etc folks have tried to patent their technologies
<jdong> somehow it seems like BitTorrent Inc is moving in that direction
* jdong goes to install Xubuntu for fun
<jdong> I've been a tad upset by GNOME's boot time
<jdong> gonna see if XFCE with a bunch of my GNOME stuff is any better than GNOME itself
<jdong> (doubt it)
<proppy> maybe the RIAA, should patent p2p
<jdong> lol
<bddebian> Later gang
<Lathiat> who do we chase up to get unmoderated on ubuntu-devel?
<somerville32> lathiat: You have to become a developer or MOTU
<Lathiat> somerville32: i am ;)
<somerville32> Launchpad id?
<joejaxx> Lathiat: what do you mean unmoderated?
<Lathiat> somerville32: you get 1 guess ;)
<Lathiat> joejaxx: ubuntu-devel is now moderated to non-developers
<joejaxx> really? that is interesting
<joejaxx> you mean the actual channel
<Lathiat> no
<Lathiat> the mailing list
<joejaxx> oh
<somerville32> Odd
<somerville32> Lathiat, Are you sure your messages are being moderated?
<Lathiat> hrm its picked up lathi@bur.st as my email despite from From: header saying lathiat@bur.st
<Lathiat> and i've emailed before the moderation stuff in this setup and it worked
<somerville32> Quick fix would be to add the e-mail to your lp account
<Lathiat> thats a bit whack
<Lathiat> From lathi@bur.st  Tue Dec 12 08:05:09 2006                                                                                          
<Lathiat> Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 08:05:06 +0900                                                                                                
<Lathiat> From: Trent Lloyd <lathiat@bur.st>                                                                                                   
<Lathiat> To: lathiat@bur.st                                                                                                                   
<Lathiat> Subject: test       
<Lathiat> is how my headers come through
<Lathiat> hrm well i did that
<Lathiat> see how it goes when i get into work later
<Lathiat> ttyl
<somerville32> You're welcome! :)
<somerville32> jdong: ping
<jdong> somerville32: 911. state your emergency.
<somerville32> jdong: Did you install Xubuntu? <g>
<jdong> somerville32: that would be correct
<somerville32> Edgy?
<jdong> yes
<somerville32> Like it
<somerville32> ?
<jdong> well I think it's great for what it does, y es
<jdong> but for my taste it's still a tad on the minimalistic side
<jdong> so on my Core Duo T2300 with 1GB RAM, I'll continue to use my GNOME ;-)
<somerville32> Wanna see a cool skin of Xfce4?
<jdong> sure
<somerville32> http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/6770/vistapk7.jpg
<joejaxx> lol jknifes doing
<jdong> lol
<jdong> that looks very familiar
<jdong> to the OS on this CD I have
<jdong> holographically labeled Windows Vista x64 RTM
<jdong> lol
* jdong just saw the SNL spoof of Nancy Grace
#ubuntu-motu 2006-12-12
<crimsun> proppy: I explained all that to you, btw.
<proppy> crimsun: sorry i've a goldfish memory
<proppy> crimsun: :)
<crimsun> proppy: np :)
* proppy hugs crimsun
<jdong> *ahem* a goldfish can be trained and retains its memory for several months
<jdong> </bionerd>
<LaserJock> yes, unfortunately it's hardly ever a "We had no clue!" problem but rather a "We have no time!" problem
* proppy hugs jdong
<jdong> eew homophobia :D
<proppy> is the feisty freeze planned ?
<LaserJock> proppy: wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyReleaseSchedule
* proppy hugs LaserJock
<jdong> proppy: you haven't been in my medicine cabinet have you?
<LaserJock> hmm, somebody must have slipped proppy some dholbach pills
<LaserJock> jdong: you have dholbach pills?!?
<LaserJock> ;-)
<crimsun> the more hugs the better :-)
<jdong> LaserJock: something like that. They're labeled Vicodin 12.5mg/1000mg though
<jdong> nothing a sharpie can't change
<crimsun> my happy pills arrived in the form of alsa 1.0.14rc1, hooray
<joejaxx> lol
<jdong> crimsun: I still rest that mine work better :D
<crimsun> jdong: no no, if I wanted -crack-, I'd spin this cube thingy
<proppy> i don't really know what "hug" mean btw
<proppy> i imagine it's related to be friendly to someoneelse
<jdong> crimsun: oh yeah? Well the windows pop out of my cube
<jdong> proppy: you know what your dog does to your leg when it's really excited?
<jdong> (just kidding, sorry couldn't resist)
* jdong puts away his happy pills
<proppy> jdong: bad joke, I don't got no more legs, and no more dog :(
<joejaxx> hello everyone
<joejaxx> crimsun: echo firm is gpl
<jdong> proppy: sorry about that, my brakes were bad and your dog ran onto the street....
<joejaxx> that should make you happier
<joejaxx> crimsun: i have to find out about audioscience
<proppy> jdong: There is a lot accessibility issue in Ubuntuf, for the people who have no legs, I should fill the wiki about that
<crimsun> joejaxx: sure, that makes me feel warm & fuzzy.
<joejaxx> :)
<LaserJock> arrg, del.icio.us just took over my firefox bookmarks
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> crimsun: did you get my invite?
<crimsun> my client ignores invites.
<joejaxx> oh
<joejaxx> that is unfortune
<joejaxx> unfortunate*
<crimsun> nothing of your causing, just spam prevention carried over from undernet & efnet
<joejaxx> ah
<lfittl> review of raopplay (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3740) sought, anyone? :)
<crimsun> well, if I can ever find my revu passwd...
* crimsun finds some marbles and tosses them 
<LaserJock> you can't recover it?
<crimsun> oh I know it
<crimsun> or rather, I know how to get it
<LaserJock> oh
<crimsun> I never remember passwords, since I use insane combinations of pipes and /dev/urandom
<tsmithe> crimsun, why???
<crimsun> why ... what?
<tsmithe> /dev/urandom and pipes for password
<tsmithe> crimsun, wanna review asoundconf-gtk while you're at it?
<crimsun> because my memory can't be trusted, and I enjoy regenerating passphrases composed of pseudo-random crap
<tsmithe> but how do you ever get them again?
<crimsun> I don't. See the regenerating part.
<tsmithe> but if its urandom, how is that possible?
<tsmithe> and some stuff must be encrypted!
<tsmithe> so how do you ever decrypt it?
<crimsun> I don't, and it's not so much enciphered as it is just crap
<tsmithe> but... but...
<tsmithe> your gpg keyring?!
<crimsun> normally I have OTP enabled, so there's not -always- a new crackful one
<crimsun> you mean my passphrase?
<tsmithe> ja
<crimsun> that's changed pretty regularly
<crimsun> (obviously one can't [re] use a passwd that's utterly randomly recreated)
<tsmithe> hence my confusion
<tsmithe> but if you change your passphrase, then doesn't the private key change?
<tsmithe> and that's often used in the free software world
<tsmithe> especially when doing uploads and stuff
<crimsun> I have multiple gpg keys
<tsmithe> hmm
<tsmithe> your system just gets more and more confusing!
<crimsun> that's the idea
<tsmithe> paranoia?
<crimsun> not so much
<tsmithe> hmm
<tsmithe> not so much as what, then?
<crimsun> *, or any attempt to "explain" it utterly failing
<lfittl> crimsun: do you have time for the review now?
<ajmitch> afternoon
<lfittl> evening ajmitch 
<crimsun> lfittl: I'm getting to. Sifting through bug e-mail (200 remaining) presently.
<lfittl> crimsun: k, sure, just wanted to know if it is somewhere in your queue
<lfittl> ajmitch: do you have time for a review? (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3740)
<ajmitch> nope
<crimsun> lfittl: would you like me to comment here and/or on REVU?
<lfittl> crimsun: on REVU please
<lfittl> crimsun: I didn't pass CFLAGS to configure because I thought that was useless, am I wrong?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<proppy> seeya
<tsmithe> hi
<tsmithe> bue
<tsmithe> *bye
* proppy hugs crimsun
<lfittl> hey bddebian 
<bddebian> Heya lfittl
<LaserJock> hi everybody
<zul> hey LaserJock 
<somerville32> Hi LaserJock
<rmjb> Hey Laser guy
<ajmitch> hello LaserJock 
<LaserJock> heh, LaserGuy, I should register that nick :-0
* ajmitch hates php some more
<jdong> how would I evilfy ffmpeg?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: rather be doing python?
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
* jdong downloads source package in attempt to answer his own question
<LaserJock> generally we try to make things *less* evil ;-)
<Lathiat> LaserJock: you missed the memo
<Lathiat> more evil is the go these days
<rmjb> evilfy??
<jdong> DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=risky it seems
<jdong> rmjb: add things like h264 and aac
<rmjb> yay!
<jdong> rmjb: make it multiverse effectively ;-)
<LaserJock> Lathiat: that reminds me. I was at the library today and came across a "Guide to SCO" book 
<Lathiat> hah
<rmjb> can it have wma/wmv or that's against the dmca?
<LaserJock> gave me a chuckle
<Lathiat> see your preparing for it, and you didn't even realise
<rmjb> "Guide to SCO" ... check the toilet :)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: much rather do python
<jdong> rmjb: I think newer ffmpeg has a competent WMV9 decoder actually
<LaserJock> ajmitch: how about Ruby on Rails?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: actually I'm sitting here tweaking html that was created by MS Word, to reimport back into word
<rmjb> good... no need to add plf to get w32codecs
<LaserJock> ajmitch: oh gross
* ajmitch looks around for cyanide pills
<rmjb> ajmitch: *ow
<Admiral_Chicago> LaserJock: last time i was at the library I found a book on Aviation pay charts in 1983 or something like that
<jdong> rmjb: yeah, and there's realplayer in the -commerical repo.... which partially resolves the realmedia problem
<jdong> rmjb: I think come Feisty we might actually be free of w32codecs? ;-)
<rmjb> jdong: haven't had the need to real media for some years now :)
<jdong> rmjb: it's more of the problem of random people sending me realmedia files
<jdong> rmjb: to be fair before h264 came around their codec was pretty much the best one for dial-up bandwidth video
<rmjb> yeah, I can't handle the buffering problem though... that's why I always picked quicktime when I had a choice... let it load then play
<LaserJock> I was looking for a GTK or QT book but the "newest" one was from 2004 so I figured I should just go the online route
<rmjb> LaserJock: safari books online don't have what you need?
<LaserJock> I did pick up an ssh book though, so now I have that and an autotools book to read
<LaserJock> rmjb: I like having a physical book to read, my uni has a whole bunch of online programming books
<jdong> motu-media folks, is it possible to have a multiverse ffmpeg package in addition to the universe one, that supported all the codecs?
<rmjb> LaserJock: I rather a physical book myself... 
<LaserJock> darn it, why did fedora have to go and kill my grub :/
<LaserJock> you know, as good as Linux installers are at detecting and setting up Windows in grub they sure suck at detecting each other
<rmjb> true that
<rmjb> dapper didn't see etch when I first tried it :P
<jdong> LaserJock: lol, that's so true
<jdong> LaserJock: they do tend to wage GRUB-war on each other
<jdong> OpenSuse 10.2 this morning, I instructed it to delete the old Ubuntu installation but it made a grub-entry for the non-existent kernel anyway
<jdong> and the SuSE installer tends to be the most reliable one even
<LaserJock> heh, my fedora install didn't see Ubuntu at all, so I tried adding it and it did some funky chainloader thing
<jdong> Fedora's grub management system isn't close to friendly at that
<jdong> anaconda's great, except for its dealing with other OS'es
<LaserJock> I think I'll maybe just use vmware or qemu instead of actually trying to install
<jdong> LaserJock: you'd want to use vmware .....
<LaserJock> I just wanted to test fedora and opensuse out
<jdong> LaserJock: qemu'ing a full distro is torture
<jdong> you won't get the authentic feel
<LaserJock> well, I would be using kqemu
<jdong> LaserJock: though I gotta say opensuse is more worth your time
<jdong> I've tried both already
<jdong> LaserJock: btw, be prepared for 1GB or so of FC6 updates
<LaserJock> yeah
<jdong> and don't make any judgements about FC6 until those updates are done
<LaserJock> first thing I did was click on the "Install Updates"
<jdong> when FC6 releases, I think that just means their updater has been debugged ;-)
<LaserJock> never got done
<jdong> the rest of the fixes come later :D
<LaserJock> it just sat there forever calculating package dependencies
<jdong> the process takes a long time the first time
<jdong> give it some time
<jdong> it might need 1 or 2 restarts to fully complete
<jdong> if it goes into timeout hell on a mirror
<LaserJock> ok, so maybe I won't wipe it yet
<LaserJock> :-)
<jdong> the python networking libraries are somewhat prone to being in a weird state when connections fail
<jdong> I've seen the same issues in bzr when the remote side suddenly goes down
<jdong> LaserJock: also try using yum @ the cmdline
<jdong> the GUI updater sucks
<jdong> they tried to copy update-manager but forgot to make it work
<LaserJock> is it still called up2date?
<jdong> ;-)
<jdong> no, it's a brand new one
<jdong> pup
<jdong> and puplet
<LaserJock> ah, good
<jdong> and pirut's their gnome-app-install
<jdong> personally up2date worked a lot better IMO
<jdong> all 3 tools have UI threading issues
<LaserJock> unfortunately up2date is what caused my hardcore Linux-head boss to move to OS X
<jdong> where network oeprations make the UI lose response
<jdong> use yum upgrade :)
<jdong> it'll make you feel more at home
<rmjb> what was wrong with up2date?
<jdong> # Build static libraries
<jdong> ./configure --enable-gpl --enable-pp --enable-pthreads --enable-vorbis --enable-libogg --enable-a52 --enable-dts --enable-libgsm --enable-dc1394 --disable-debug --enable-mp3lame --enable-faadbin --enable-faad --enable-faac --enable-xvid --disable-ffmpeg --disable-ffserver --disable-ffplay --prefix=/usr
<jdong> YES!
<LaserJock> heh, first thing I used to do when I used to run Red Hate/fedora was install apt
<jdong> LaserJock: apt4rpm doesn't work as well as yum IMO
<LaserJock> it used to
<jdong> not saying either is as good as the one and only APT
<LaserJock> yum was aweful
<jdong> LaserJock: yum's gotten better
<LaserJock> like literally non-usable
<jdong> and it handles bi-arch perfectly
<LaserJock> but that was back in FC1
<jdong> LaserJock: a lot has happened to yum since FC1
<LaserJock> rmjb: it never worked
<jdong> FC6 has a sqlite backend and a C metadata parser
<jdong> for yum
<LaserJock> interesting
<jdong> the speed for that is greatly improved
<jdong> i.e. local operations
<jdong> the downloading RPM header files from the network is still slow at times
<rmjb> meh, it works okay for us I guess... we just don't update our servers :)
<jdong> LaserJock: invest some time in yum.repos.d setting up mirrors.kernel.org as your only mirror
<jdong> LaserJock: most yum freezes happen because the round-robin dns for the generic update server points you at a sucky server
<LaserJock> rmjb: that was the thing. The campus people were getting on my bosses case about security updates
<jdong> the up2date in CentOS 4 worked great for me
<jdong> better than FC6's stupid retarded guis
<LaserJock> otherwise he'd still be at RedHat 7.2
<rmjb> we're still putting our testing servers in place... after 9 months
<rmjb> we're on RHEL 3 though
<LaserJock> but he never was able to get updates to work
<jdong> LaserJock: hmm, I don't think that's representative
<LaserJock> so he jumped ship to OS X for that and MS Office
<jdong> LaserJock: up2date has been a charm for me...
<jdong> sure it can't handle as many scenarios as APT or yum
<LaserJock> yeah, well that was back in the day
<jdong> but for the general stable-updates that, say, RHEL4 gets
<jdong> it's good for that
<rmjb> what really shines in RHEL though is rhn... the RedHat Network... that's the ticket...
<jdong> it applies CentOS service packs just fine
<LaserJock> I tried it with RH 7.2, 7.3 and FC1 &2 and never got an update to actually work
<jdong> rmjb: I've seen some screenshots of the rhn service
<rmjb> provisioning and reloading a server from a webpage... you can't get better than that :)
<jdong> rmjb: the RHN does seem worthwhile
<jdong> rmjb: it offers an overview of the update status on all your subscribed boxes too, no?
<rmjb> yep
<rmjb> and you can easily group them
<jdong> I wish I had that for my home network :)
<LaserJock> then I kinda went the other way to Gentoo
<jdong> LaserJock: ooh you were a gentoovian too?
<rmjb> so you can say hold on the production group, push to the testing group
<LaserJock> jdong: for over 2 years
<jdong> LaserJock: cool
<jdong> LaserJock: I used Gentoo before Ubuntu came around
<jdong> I used to be pretty active too
<jdong> LaserJock: but their poor QA during a few updates made me disillusioned
<LaserJock> yep, I looked for a binary Gentoo and landed in Ubuntu
<jdong> aye, that too
<jdong> I upgraded from a 1.8GHz P4 to an Athlon64 primarily due to the compile times
<LaserJock> I just got tired of compiling *everything* and it was hard to maintian
<jdong> it is a high-maintenance distro to use
<jdong> always emerge -uDav world
<jdong> and once every week a major upstream release of something makes you hunt after config files
<jdong> what was that command...
<jdong> etc-update that's it!
<jdong> oh the fun of merging config files
<LaserJock> but it had basically every piece of software I wanted
<LaserJock> that was my big draw
<jdong> that was a cool thing
<jdong> and writing ebuilds for new software was a real snap too
<zul> meh...gentoo..i was a gentoo develoepr as well
<jdong> zul: ooh, now you were a developer for them
<jdong> :)
<jdong> I was just a nerdy user that stopped by bugzilla once in a while and hung out on their forums
<jdong> (usually those bugzilla stops were 0day version bump requests but ANYWAY.... :D)
* jdong notes his new ffmpeg is ready
<LaserJock> I was just a user
<rmjb> how come ffmpeg is in universe and not multiverse?
<LaserJock> Ubuntu is the first time I've had any motivation to do development, that's why I love it
<LaserJock> rmjb: I think because we took out the "bad" bits
<rmjb> is it built entirely from source? (that's the only criterion for something to end up in multi right?)
* rmjb needs to revisit the multiverse criteria
<bddebian> No
<bddebian> multiverse == non-free
<LaserJock> the only criterion for Multiverse is distributable
<LaserJock> and legal I guess
<rmjb> non-free == proprietary? patented?
<bddebian> Doesn't carry a free license like GPL, etc
<rmjb> ahh... got it
<LaserJock> proprietary, closed-source, etc.
<jdong> can we put the bad bits back in a multiverse ffmpeg package?
<jdong> i.e. ffmpeg-all
<jdong> with the presence of video ipods the ability for ffmpeg to natively handle all these formats is quite important
<jdong> there are checkinstalled ffmpeg packages floating around all the ipod video howto's
<jdong> a second package IMO is the lesser of two evils
<jdong> though personally I'd say shove it all into multiverse :D
<jdong> because if we go with an anal multimedia policy like OpenSuse
<LaserJock> perhaps, I think siretart wants ffmpeg in Main though
<rmjb> will also cut back on using easyubuntu & Automatix for this
<jdong> rmjb: automatix is only a problem in this case if it chooses to autoinstall checkinstalled junk
<LaserJock> I'm not sure how having one part in Main and one part in Multiverse would go, but I'd think it'd be possible
<jdong> which sadly is the case when they can't find people with legit packages
<jdong> LaserJock: there are some other packages done this way...
<jdong> I think
<jdong> where they have a universe/multiverse variants that conflict each other
<jdong> slomo: waah give us full ffmpeg :D
<rmjb> siretart: taking a crack at merging uqm
<rmjb> this line in control:
<rmjb> XS-Vcs-Svn:
<rmjb> is for some sort of auto updating script?
<LaserJock> rmjb: it's apparently for showing svn repo paths for the Debian PTS
<rmjb> alrighty then... there's still much I have to learn about the ins and outs of packaging
<rmjb> but for now, it's bed time
<rmjb> g'night all
<LaserJock> cya
<LaserJock> wow, really rockin' in here tonight :-)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: of course
<bddebian> heh
<ajmitch> we're exciting people
* bddebian isn't :-(
* LaserJock does his Feisty dance
<bddebian> Hmm, now ajmitch can review libparagui ;-P
* ajmitch wanders home
<bddebian> LaserJock: Notice how ajmitch avoids me ;-)
* somerville32 stabs the package in the face!
<somerville32> Gah!
* somerville32 doesn't like errors.
<bddebian> hehe
<LaserJock> bddebian: ajmitch is smart :-)
<somerville32> It doesn't help that I only have a 333mhz w/ 128mb of RAM which makes building packages take forever.
<Hobbsee> ouch.  you need to poke imbrandon or someone, to get a machine to build on
* bddebian is soo glad he came back :-(
<LaserJock> haha
<LaserJock> bddebian: yes you are
* somerville32 throws his computer at imbrandon.
<LaserJock> just rest in the comfort that you've probably done more merges than ajmitch and I combined :-)
<bddebian> Yet I still get no love :-)
* somerville32 hugs bddebian.
<bddebian> :-)
<somerville32> Does anyone know what apt-index-watch is?
<somerville32> It is chewing up 50% of my CPU and my CPU cycles are very precious. <g>
<bddebian> Some kind of automatic apt-update thingy?
<somerville32> I can't find the executable anywheres and if I kill it, it starts up agai
<bddebian> Hmm
* bddebian throws things at the tv
<somerville32> Hobbsee, Will they really give me a machine to build on?
<Hobbsee> they might give you ssh access to one of their machines for building
* Hobbsee wonders what happened to the build farm idea
<somerville32> But don't you need root to build?
<Hobbsee> no
<Hobbsee> not if you set it up properly
<somerville32> Then I guess I haven't set it up properly <g>
<Hobbsee> well, you can set it up in a way so that you dont
<somerville32> What does this mean?: dpkg-genchanges: failure: cannot read files list file: No such file or directory
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: we talked with elmo about it
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: and?
<bddebian> Gnight gang
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: basically LP is going to grow community build features
<LaserJock> and Canonical has community machines
<LaserJock> that should go online sometime
<LaserJock> the basic problem wasn't so much getting machines to build
<LaserJock> but making sure it's safe (very tough) and bandwidth
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: yes...
* ajmitch returns
<ajmitch> oh dear, I missed bddebian
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: so we basically abandoning the idea of us admining our own build farm
<LaserJock> *we are
<ademan> hey has vil been around lately?  I havent heard from him in almost a week
<LaserJock> in favor of using LP and Canonical's community builders
<ajmitch> PPA FTW
<LaserJock> heh, perhaps
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: fair enough
<LaserJock> it still seem rather crazy to me
<ajmitch> it is
<somerville32> What does this mean?: dpkg-genchanges: failure: cannot read files list file: No such file or directory. I got it during the end of the build process.
<ajmitch> another sabdfl magic moment
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: basically the problem is that Canonical has already got machines and bandwidth for us, it's more a matter of working out the details
<LaserJock> elmo did say if we had hardware donations and they could be shipped to London he'd be fine with putting them up
<LaserJock> but he said they have something like 20 machines already around
<LaserJock> so it seems hardware is not the problem but getting "untrusted" people access
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: gotcha
<Hobbsee> yeah
<Hobbsee> and everyone in -core-dev or -dev seems to have fairly decent access
<ajmitch> shifty, dangerous people like Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> heh
* Hobbsee already has access to a few machines, 2 with local mirrors attached :)
<ajmitch> speak for yourself, we have legends like crimsun on old, slow hardware
<Hobbsee> s/everyone/most/
* somerville32 is on old, slow hardware.
<ajmitch> I'm not too badly off, but it's not like I have a lot of data cap to burn through each month
* somerville32 pokes Hobbsee 
* Hobbsee pokes somerville32 back
<Hobbsee> !packagingguide
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
<somerville32> The packaging guide is a good start, yes.
<somerville32> Or was that not for me? <g>
<Hobbsee> there's no ubotu in -devel
<somerville32> Hobbsee, Coming to the CC tomorrow?
<somerville32> Hobbsee, Also, for some reason I'm getting this error near the end of the build process: dpkg-genchanges: failure: cannot read files list file: No such file or directory
<Hobbsee> somerville32: what time is it, sydney tie?
<Hobbsee> somerville32: no
<somerville32> It is 01:17.
<Hobbsee> [16:17]  <Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 13 Dec 02:00: Loco Team | 13 Dec 03:00: Community Council | 13 Dec 23:00: Edubuntu | 15 Dec 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 20 Dec 07:00: Technical Board | 21 Dec 07:00: Edubuntu
<somerville32> (currently in Atlantic Canada)
<somerville32> Oh, fun :] 
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: should be easy for you to get to
<somerville32> So... about the error <g>
<Hobbsee> for checkinstall?
<Hobbsee> NFI - just that it failed
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: yeah, right.
<somerville32> Not that error
<somerville32> dpkg-genchanges: failure: cannot read files list file: No such file or directory
<Hobbsee> 3am -6am meeting...what fun
<Hobbsee> er, pass?
<Hobbsee> it's got debian/changelog in there?
<somerville32> Yup.
<somerville32> The error just started to occur
<somerville32> I dunno what I've done to start causing it
<somerville32> Hmm...
<somerville32> This is weird.
<somerville32> Hobbsee_, I think I found the error
<Hobbsee_> somerville32: yay?
<somerville32> I removed dh_genchanges from rules
<Hobbsee> ah
<somerville32> Now I get this error: dpkg-genchanges: failure: cannot open upload file ../pyneighborhood_0.3-0ubuntu1_all.deb for reading: No such file or directory
<Hobbsee> you running out of space?
<imbrandon> ello all
<Hobbsee> hey imbrandon!
<imbrandon> Hobbsee !!
<ajmitch> hi imbrandon 
<imbrandon> heya ajmitch 
<somerville32> imbrandon: Can I get a box to build on?
<imbrandon> e.g. you mean an account on my box?
<somerville32> I dunno.
<somerville32> <somerville32> It doesn't help that I only have a 333mhz w/ 128mb of RAM which makes building packages take forever.
<somerville32> <Hobbsee> ouch.  you need to poke imbrandon or someone, to get a machine to build on
<somerville32> * somerville32 throws his computer at imbrandon.
<imbrandon> ahhh yea
<imbrandon> if you can wait ~24 hours or so i'll have the new faster box ready
<imbrandon> then i'll set you up an account
<somerville32> Awesome. Thanks :] 
<Lathiat> would another box be of use to people here?
<Lathiat> one in australia?
<Lathiat> im happy to offer up some cpu & bandwidth power
<imbrandon> if you would drop me an email at imbrandon@kubuntu.org so i dont forget :)
<imbrandon> somerville32: ^^
<Lathiat> with 1.8M/s access to mirrors... or i could arrange some space for a local mirror
<somerville32> ^_^
<Hobbsee> Lathiat: may well be.  where in australia are you?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: would like it, for oen
<Hobbsee> *one
<Lathiat> perth
<Hobbsee> ahhh
<imbrandon> Lathiat: possible, i give people accounts to my boxes that have 100MB/s connection to the net and mirror but i cant do the whole community :)
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: would be very appreciative, i think
<Lathiat> well ..
<Hobbsee> and anyone else in the southern hemisphere
<Hobbsee> the lag time to imbrandon's box is shocking
<Lathiat> i also work for a colo facility that has that speed 
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: has accounts on mine and Burgundavia's iirc :)
<Lathiat> but i dont have any appropriate hardware there
<Lathiat> imbrandon: is that in .au?
<Lathiat> yeh
<imbrandon> Lathiat: so do i :)
<Lathiat> Hobbsee: it would be
<imbrandon> but not in au
<Lathiat> perhaps i will look into this
<Hobbsee> imbrandon's is nice and fast, but it's got a 2-3 second delay, most of the time
<Hobbsee> maybe 1 if you're lucky
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: that should go away with the new boxes
<imbrandon> :)
<Hobbsee> :)
<imbrandon> moved from cable to my work connection
<imbrandon> thats 100MB/s directly to the trunk
<Lathiat> imbrandon: is that in the US?
<imbrandon> yes
<Lathiat> lag to australia from the US sucks no matter what connection your on
<Lathiat> drives me up the wall
<Lathiat> when using ssh interactively 
<imbrandon> whats your ping time to voyager.imbranodn.com ?
<Lathiat> so if i were to organise a .au box, for .au people
<imbrandon> just curoous
<Lathiat> perhaps this could be usefull
<imbrandon> curious*
<imbrandon> Lathiat: yup possibly
<Lathiat> 260ms
<imbrandon> wow
<imbrandon> thats crazy
<Lathiat> thats australia for you ;)
<Lathiat> it might suck a little less for the east coast
<Lathiat> btu yeh
<Lathiat> it sucks :)
<imbrandon> i get less than 10ms pings to it
<Lathiat> yes
<Lathiat> your on the other side of the world
<Lathiat> :)
<imbrandon> ;)
<Lathiat> light only travels so quick
<Lathiat> hrm hrm hrm
<Lathiat> we have a dual opteron at work that isnt doing anything atm
<Lathiat> i wonder if i can comandeer it
<imbrandon> :)
<Lathiat> imbrandon: 220ms from an east coast machine
<Lathiat> in fact we have a couple dual opties.. and a dual xeon
<imbrandon> what colo do you work for ? i work for gsihosting
<Lathiat> so i think i can borrow one
<Lathiat> HostAway.net.au
<imbrandon> yea voyager is a core 2 duo
<Lathiat> our website is horrible, dont look at it ;)
<imbrandon> :)
<Lathiat> we're not that big, being in perth
<Hobbsee> Lathiat: TheMuso would also love it
<Lathiat> about 130 machines, + about 60 machines of our own for the web/email hosting side of things
<Lathiat> we have gigabit to ftp.uwa.edu.au, ftp.iinet.net.au
<Lathiat> which both have ubuntu mirrors
<imbrandon> wow we have over 3k machines we host plus about 1k we manage for walmart and visa
<Lathiat> plus i can mirror it locally
<Lathiat> imbrandon: yeh well, we're pretty small :)
<Lathiat> colo business in .au and especially perth is a bit smalltime
<Lathiat> because it costs too much
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> i could imaigine
<Lathiat> we charge $5/GB
<Lathiat> its insane
<imbrandon> holy shit
<imbrandon> err sh*t
<Lathiat> you probably get a terrabyte for that over there
<imbrandon> we dont charge per GB
<imbrandon> no caps
<Lathiat> *we* pay $350/mbit for transit
<imbrandon> OUCH
<Lathiat> and thats a *damn* good price for perth
<Lathiat> especially for the amount of transit we buy
<Lathiat> so yeh
<Lathiat> .au definitely isnt' where it at
<Lathiat> but the market is australian people
<imbrandon> hehe
<Lathiat> because, lag to the US sucks
<Lathiat> as does bandwidth
<imbrandon> yea
<Lathiat> with 250ms of latency
<Lathiat> your TCP connections by defautl top out at 200-300K/s
<imbrandon> wow
<Lathiat> due to window sizing 
<Lathiat> multistream downloaders work very well in .au
<Lathiat> for that reason
<Lathiat> i'll get 100-200K/s in 1 stream.. using axel i can pull 1.6M/s
<Lathiat> from cachefly and stuf fin the US
<imbrandon> yea here its not even worth the trubble
* Lathiat nods
* Lathiat ponders evilly conscripting a few of the less busy production dual opterons into a distcc cluster
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> i'm eventualy gonna have a whole buildd farm at work
* somerville32 pants.
<imbrandon> i have a whole rack now to myself
<Lathiat> nice
<imbrandon> that i comendeered
<Lathiat> hah
<Lathiat> i comandeered a "test" p4 2.6ghz machine
<Lathiat> it uh.. does lots of legal things
<imbrandon> well we have employee rack space in a shared rack , but when i asked the boss for a class c of ip's he gave me a rack
<Lathiat> haha
<imbrandon> part of it was i saved their ass the other night 
<Lathiat> do you pay for that?
<imbrandon> with a major client's oracle db went down and i saved the box
<imbrandon> nope
<Lathiat> haha
<Lathiat> nice
<imbrandon> gratis from the company
<Lathiat> yeh i'm pondering moving over east to try deal with some bigger networks
<Lathiat> moving to the US is hard
<Lathiat> getting a work visa seems practically impossible 
<Burgundavia> canadian is easier
<jdong> any word on hal the vlc 0.8.6 merging is going?
<imbrandon> not for the US its easy
<somerville32> I can walk into the US, lol
<Burgundavia> somerville32: we are canucks, it is easy for us
<somerville32> Getting into Canada is a piece of cake.
<imbrandon> work visa's in the US are like stupid simple to get
<somerville32> :D
<Lathiat> imbrandon: i looked into it and it seemed to requrie special skills etc
<Lathiat> i know a mate, @stake security wanted to bring him in
<Lathiat> like they really wanted to gethim
<Lathiat> fly him over, accomodate etc
<Lathiat> and they wouldnt grant him a visa
<imbrandon> wow 
<Lathiat> because he wasnt in the industry for at least 5 years 
<Burgundavia> got a friend with the same thing, had a job, but they wouldn't give her a visa
<imbrandon> we have to guys from spain here , it was like nothing to bring them in afaik
<imbrandon> nuts
<Lathiat> want to bring me in? ;)
<imbrandon> hehe
<Lathiat> spain may be different i dont know
<Lathiat> altho i wouldnt have thought so
<imbrandon> right now i'm in the process of migrating 1500 centos boxes to ubuntu ( next will be our workstations )
<somerville32> imbrandon, Is your company a canonical partnet?
<somerville32> *partner
<imbrandon> not yet
<imbrandon> i talked to the big wigs to possibly work somethign out
<imbrandon> they use ALOT of ubuntu and pay me part of the week to actualy work on ubuntu sooooo
<imbrandon> its just a matter of time
<Lathiat> imbrandon: nice
<somerville32> Does the Walmart server run Ubuntu?
<Lathiat> thats pretty cool
<Lathiat> i hate centos ;)
<imbrandon> they were already in the process of moving from centos to ubuntu when i got brouhgt in
<Lathiat> imbrandon: really? awesome
<imbrandon> somerville32: no 98% of walmarts boxes are windows 2k3
<somerville32> Migrate them! :] 
<imbrandon> with 10 or so RH4 EL oracle boxes
<Lathiat> ahh redhat
<Lathiat> if only when i ring your suport line i didnt end up with 3 idiots in a row :)
<imbrandon> nah they are just fine on win2k3 for the minute, that would be a major undertaking 
<somerville32> Ok, back to packaging
<somerville32> I get:
<somerville32> dpkg-genchanges: not including original source code in upload
<somerville32> dpkg-buildpackage: binary and diff upload (original source NOT included)
<imbrandon> e.g. recoding all their weapps , e.g. many many man hours , e.g. wont be done anytime soon
<somerville32> This is during the build
<ajmitch> somerville32: fine, so long as you don't intend to put it on revu :)
<somerville32> ajmitch: I don't understand why it is saying that
<somerville32> I did:
<somerville32> debuild -S -sa
<somerville32> cd ..
<somerville32> pbuilder-feisty build *.dsc
<ajmitch> then that's usual
<imbrandon> thats normal for that then
<ajmitch> pbuilder makes binary packages
<ajmitch> you still have the source package there
<imbrandon> wb Burgundavia 
<somerville32> ok, goodie
<imbrandon> ( just debuild -S -sa again before you upload to revu
<imbrandon> )
* ajmitch is jealous of imbrandon some more
<imbrandon> ajmitch: not really i have to put in the work for the goodies :)
<imbrandon> if i had all day to play with the toys it would be cool :)
<ajmitch> sure, that's expected
<ajmitch> work can't afford to get me toys :)
<somerville32> Ok
<somerville32> I got the package to build now
<Burgundavia> bloody NM
<somerville32> but no there is no python dependency
<Lathiat> yes, bloody NM
<Lathiat> it keeps breaking avahi :)
<somerville32> I had the ${python:Depend} thingie
<ajmitch> Depends, I hope
<somerville32> Depends: ${python:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}, python-gtk2 (>= 2.6), smbclient (>= 3.0.22)
<ajmitch> and one of dh_py* is being called?
* ajmitch finds that having DH_VERBOSE set can help a lot when trying to figure out issues
<somerville32>         dh_pysupport
<somerville32>         dh_python
<somerville32> in rules
<somerville32> in binary-indep:
<imbrandon> brb food
<ajmitch> hard to tell just by seeing bits & pieces of the problem
<somerville32> Want ssh access?
* ajmitch tries to recall if pysupport requires XS-Python-Version or not
<ajmitch> not particularly
<ajmitch> just a source package would do
* ajmitch is on the other side of the world, latency kills
<somerville32> Can I just set the dependency manually?
<ajmitch> you can, but it's not recommended :)
<ajmitch> I think that using dh_python might be unnecessary now, but I haven't kept up in the last couple of months
<LaserJock> bah, why isn't my sid deb-src line working :(
<ajmitch> LaserJock: how is it broken?
* ajmitch has had incredibly slow downloads from http.us.d.o lately
<Lathiat> hrm, feisty base or an edgy base with some chroot/pbuilder love?
<ajmitch> which is odd considering it's a rotation of 7 servers
<ajmitch> Lathiat: since you've got lvm+md & other fun things, you may have issues with having things boot reliably in feisty still
<somerville32> lathiat: Who is that question for?
<Lathiat> this is for a dedicated build/dev machine
<Lathiat> hrm
<LaserJock> ajmitch: well, I have an edgy machine with feisty and sid deb-src lines, and when I use -t sid it pulls from feisty
<Lathiat> i think theres hardware raid in that mcahine maybe
<somerville32> ajmitch: http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/python-policy/ch-programs.html
<somerville32> I think I'm suppose to just set a python dependency manually
<ajmitch> LaserJock: ah right, that is annoying
<ajmitch> somerville32: it should just work
<ajmitch> but you can probably depend on python
<ajmitch> without specifying versions
<somerville32> ajmitch: All the source code is in the top directory
<somerville32> How do I pass the top directory as the argument?
<ajmitch> hm?
<ajmitch> argument to what?
<somerville32> "To use this feature, pass a list of directories to be managed by python-support to dh_pysupport and dh_python"
<ajmitch> that's for the final installation path, eg something under /usr/share
<ajmitch> probably not what you want
<Lathiat> well i'll go feisty and see how we go
<Lathiat> imbrandon: what do you run?
<imbrandon> where? on the colo buildd's ? edgy
<imbrandon> edgy server with dapper / edgy /feisty / and sid pbuilders
<Lathiat> hrm
<Lathiat> is that the better idea?
<imbrandon> better for now, i wouldent put anything into production that wasent released as the main os
<imbrandon> even if i do work on it :)
<Lathiat> well "production" is a hairy word :P
<imbrandon> then again i use feisty at home on a desktop  too
<imbrandon> Lathiat: well if you plan on giving out more then your self as a user
<imbrandon> i would call it production :)
<imbrandon> but thats just my 0.2c
<Lathiat> i guess dealing with feisty totally breaking the machine continually would suck :)
<Lathiat> so maybe it is
<imbrandon> they actualy servers at work running ubuntu ( other than mine ) are all dapper :)
<Lathiat> yeh i run on dapper on serverness
<Lathiat> dual 3.2ghz xeon w/2GB of ram, should be usefull
<Lathiat> 32bit, tho
<imbrandon> 64bit will give you 32bit and 64bit pbuilders for sid edgy dapper and feisty :)
<Lathiat> yeh except its a 32bit xeon ;p
<imbrandon> or you mean the xeon is 32bit ?
<imbrandon> ahh
<imbrandon> better than nothing
<imbrandon> :)
<Lathiat> i'll try scrounge an opteron later
<Lathiat> but this is available now :)
<imbrandon> i only have a x86 and a ppc in the rack for the moment
<Lathiat> sudo to pbuilder?
<imbrandon> ( and the ppc was my old lappy comissioned as a server untill i can get my hands on a ibm power5 )
<imbrandon> yea sudo access to pbulder
<Lathiat> and i suppose you can use pbuilder login to bash things out
<imbrandon> yes pbuilder-distro login
<imbrandon> etc
<imbrandon> with ssh keys from LP for those you choose to give access too
<imbrandon> and gont let them put a gpg key on their
<imbrandon> there*
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I figured it out. If the versions are identical it grabs the source from the first deb-src line in sources.list
<imbrandon> ok dinners ready , brb
* somerville32 is very hungry
<LaserJock> arggg, now its getting it *only* from sid, even if the versions aren't the same :/
<somerville32> Ok
<somerville32> woot
<somerville32> Uploaded to revu
<LaserJock> interesting, I made apt-get core dump
<somerville32> Could someone review? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3743
<jdong> LaserJock: did you try to install another competing package manager? ;-)
<LaserJock> well, apparently it doesn't like my edgy deb line
<LaserJock> if I have that line it seg faults
<somerville32> LaserJock, What are you trying to do?
<LaserJock> I want to have edgy and sid deb-src lines so I can get source packages via apt-get
<somerville32> Interesting
<LaserJock> however, I found a debian bug repot that said you have to have the corresponding deb line
<somerville32> Is the issue having both sid and edgy?
<LaserJock> well, not for deb-src
<somerville32> ajmitch, Wanna review my package now? <g>
<LaserJock> interesting, in edgy it actually spits out an error: E: Dynamic MMap ran out of room
<ajmitch> LaserJock: ah, apt has had a few issues with multiple deb-src lines
<LaserJock> well, so much for that bright idea
<ajmitch> the Hobbsee?
<Hobbsee> of course
<LaserJock> ajmitch: see -devel
<ajmitch> somerville32: I'm glad you stopped it installing a .pyc file
<ajmitch> that's just asking for breakage
<Hobbsee> what's a .pyc file?
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: python compiled bytecode
<Hobbsee> ahh
<somerville32> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3744
<ajmitch> not a stable format at all, so packages installing it are crazy
<somerville32> Hobbsee, Come review me package :] 
<somerville32> + please
<ajmitch> somerville32: put the email address in the maintainer field
<somerville32> ajmitch: I did. See http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3744 for latest.
<somerville32> That is, if you are talking about the same thing I am
<ajmitch> ah, that's revu stripping out the <> bits
<ajmitch> never mind me, I was only looking at it via the web page
<LaserJock> somerville32: did you use a patch for the Makefile?
<somerville32> LaserJock: It is in the diff
<ajmitch> somerville32: your package may be one that counts as shipping a private module
* ajmitch hasn't looked into it much
<somerville32> I think you're right
<ajmitch> so you should use XB-Python-Version & XS-Python-Version
<somerville32> Can I use "current" ?
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> or all
<ajmitch> all may be better
<ajmitch> does it just need smbclient, or does it need the smbfs package as well?
* somerville32 doesn't really know
<somerville32> I can't even get the program to work
<ajmitch> ah
<ajmitch> that's an important first step to getting it uploaded ;)
<somerville32> lol
<somerville32> I just assume I'm too stupid to use it :P
<somerville32> What paragraph does The python version stuff go in?
<ajmitch> XS-Python-Version goes with the info about the source package
<ajmitch> XB-P-V for the binary package
<somerville32> So para 1 and para 2?
<ajmitch> yes
* somerville32 thought this would have been easy to package. -- He was wrong.
<ajmitch> not that they're usually referred to by paragraphs :)
<somerville32> "dpkg-source: error: per-package paragraph 2 in control info file is missing Package line"
<somerville32> ;] 
<ajmitch> dpkg is spethial
<somerville32> ajmitch: Are merges easy to do?
<ajmitch> depends
<ajmitch> some of them are trivial
<somerville32> Would it be a good way for me to help out and learn?
<ajmitch> some of them require intimate knowledge of the source
* somerville32 nods.
<ajmitch> eg there are 10 ubuntu patches against a previous upstream version, which ones should be kept?
<ajmitch> most are fairly trivial
<ajmitch> it's often a good way to help out
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: /win 5
<Fujitsu> Oops.
<Fujitsu> Gah.
<ajmitch> hah
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: what was that supposed to be?
<Fujitsu> I was probably going to respond to one of your messages some time ago, and failed to erase the Hobbsee: when I changed into another window.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: ah right.  @ Lathiat's build farm machine talk?
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: are you still on some insanely throttled dsl plan?
<LaserJock> my goodness this Debian package is messy
<ajmitch> which one?
<LaserJock> rpy
<LaserJock> the maintainer has basically *every* dh_* in there
<somerville32> Can someone advocate? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3745
<somerville32> :] 
<LaserJock> I'm doing an SRU to fix his botched Python Policy but he still doesn't have it right I don't think
<Hobbsee> ah
<ajmitch> LaserJock: unfortunate
<ajmitch> somerville32: no way I can advocate a package you've admitted to not even running
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: No, it's always been Optus cable, and my limit has been bumped from 1GB to 12GB (+24GB offpeak) as of a month or two ago.
<ajmitch> ah, that's not so bad
<Fujitsu> It's good not being limited to 28.8kbps for most of the month.
<Fujitsu> 10Mbps, wheeeee.
<Hobbsee> hehe, lucky
<Hobbsee> you dont get all of that presumably
<Sp4rKy> hi there
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: What do you mean?
<StevenK> 10Mbps to what, though? A BBQ and a garden hose?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: the full speed
* ajmitch struggles along on about 3.5Mbps on a good day
<ajmitch> 3.5Kbps on a poor one
<Fujitsu> I regularly get ~1.2MB/s to Australian sites.
<Fujitsu> Optus' international link really sucks.
* StevenK can cope with 150KB/s to pretty much anywhere
* StevenK kicks Katapult for being stupid.
* Fujitsu kicks StevenK for being stupid and using Katapult.
* Fujitsu ducks from the Hobbsee.
* Hobbsee attacks Fujitsu with her Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: why would you be afraid of her?
<Fujitsu> Damnit.
<ajmitch> she's mostly harmless
<Hobbsee> Mostly.
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: I'm only 900km from her.
<zakame> hi all
<zakame> hi Hobbsee and mistress long pointy stick
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: all talk :)
* Fujitsu is relieved that infinity is on holiday for a while; a little more distance between me and the nearest archive admin :P
<StevenK> Heh
<zakame> heh
<Hobbsee> hello zakame 
<StevenK> Three in Europe, and mdz, who is ... some place different every week it seems
<zakame> hmm what merges to do next?
<Seveas> Hobbsee mostly harmless? Neh....
* StevenK wonders if merging the new Debian version of checkinstall is a *good* thing.
<Hobbsee> Seveas: ajmitch is delusional, it seems
<zakame> hmm when's sun-java6-* pkgs due?
<Hobbsee> StevenK: if it segfaults, yes
<Seveas> Hobbsee, it indeed seems so
<StevenK> I can make it do that... :-P
<Seveas> make it do a reboot
<Hobbsee> good!
<Hobbsee> Seveas: or break X in th eprocess
<StevenK> Add "kill(getpid(), 11);" ...
<Hobbsee> argh, hwo do i search launchpad by just a number?
<Seveas> Make it install automatix!
<Hobbsee> and beryl!
<Seveas> and debian versions of libc and the like
<StevenK> I think we're getting too evil now.
<Seveas> neh
<Seveas> we're just getting started
<Hobbsee> hehe
<elkbuntu> StevenK, this is hardly evil
* Fujitsu looks for a good merge.
<elkbuntu> Seveas, can be way more imaginative than that
<Seveas> elkbuntu, icecubes?
<StevenK> elkbuntu: Oh?
* Fujitsu steals some of Hobbsee's, to incur her wrath.
<elkbuntu> Seveas, bwahahaha... that was hardly evil... annoying, not evil
<ajmitch> Seveas!
* Hobbsee drops Fujitsu out of a plane without a parachute
<LaserJock> I want it to replace the wallpaper with http://fridge.ubuntu.com/files/no-pony-for-you.jpg
<Seveas> elkbuntu, it was fun with joey ;) 
<elkbuntu> LaserJock, the wallpaper thing's been done before sort of
<LaserJock> yeah, but I want the pony one :-)
<elkbuntu> Seveas, if it were not for all the power outlets around, it would have been WAR
* Fujitsu liked the red skull.
<Seveas> if it weren't for you being too small and helpeless you mean :p
<elkbuntu> i am not helpless!
<ajmitch> hah
<elkbuntu> i just didnt want to be electrocuted in the matrix of power cables
* ajmitch pokes Hobbsee 
<LaserJock> my gosh this package is rediculous
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: haha
<zakame> what pkg?
* Fujitsu drops a matrix of power cables on elkbuntu, and runs away, laughing maniacally.
<elkbuntu> ack, smells like fire here :(
<elkbuntu> Fujitsu, meanie :(
<Fujitsu> elkbuntu: Can't be as bad as here on Saturday morning, severely limited visibility!
<LaserJock> I have to install python-all-dev and fortran just to do debuild -S
<elkbuntu> Fujitsu, last thursday we were down to 100m vis, in an hour, it will be about the same
<Fujitsu> Fun
<elkbuntu> Fujitsu, and this burning smell is of more than just eucalypt :(
<Fujitsu> :/
<Sp4rKy> please, why a pbuilder update update in dapper whereas my ~/.pbuilderrc contains feisty
<realist> We were 600m vis last Saturday :-/
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log
<ajmitch> somerville32: and you trust dh_make implicitly?
<somerville32> ajmitch: This is my first package :/
<ajmitch> ok
<somerville32> ajmitch: The commands that pyNeighborhood uses smbmnt and smbumnt require superuser privs
<Hobbsee> dholbach!!!
<somerville32> Could I +s them or should I modify the .desktop to use gksudo?
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> hey Hobbsee
<LaserJock> man, it really must be late :/
<LaserJock> when the Germans show up I know
<Gloubiboulga> hello MOTU world
<Hobbsee> they're coming to take over the wold
<Hobbsee> *world
<Hobbsee> hey Gloubiboulga 
<Gloubiboulga> hey Hobbsee :)
<ajmitch> somerville32: please don't set them suid-root
<somerville32> Gah
<somerville32> I need sleep
<somerville32> :(
<ajmitch> morning daniel!
<somerville32> ajmitch: hehe, k
<dholbach> hey Andrew! hey Gloubiboulga! hey somerville32!
<somerville32> :D
<somerville32> Hi! :[
<somerville32> *:] 
<Lathiat> nice im just installing this machine
<Lathiat> and the usb cdrom comes up as a "SCSI 1 (0,0,0) (sdd) - 2.2 TB USB 2.0 Storage Device"
<Lathiat> i wish :/
<LaserJock> that would be nice
<LaserJock> hmm, I thought the motu-sru team approved the SRU when it was done in -proposed
<somerville32> ajmitch: Ok, uploaded yet another attempt. However, you'll notice when you build it that ${python:Depends} isn't replaced.
<ademan> hey has vil been around? I haven't heard from him in almost a week now...
<somerville32> Maybe you could help me figure that out?
<somerville32> dholbach: Are you any good at packaging python packages?
<dholbach> somerville32: what are you trying to do?
<dholbach> I packaged a few myself, yes
<somerville32> dholbach: I'm trying to package my first package but I'm having trouble conforming to the new python policy.
<dholbach> what's going wrong?
<somerville32> {python:Depends} isn't being replaced in the control file
<dholbach> you run dh_pycentral or dh_pysupport in debian/rules somewhere?
<dholbach> (they should call dh_python nowadays)
<somerville32> dh_python is old
<dholbach> they serve different purposes - dh_python is not old
<somerville32> Hmmm
<somerville32> The man page says that it is deprecated
<dholbach> ok ok, "# Here we're doing what dh_python used to do"
<dholbach> you're right, I wasn't up to scratch
<dholbach> do you have the package online somewhere?
<somerville32> Yes, revu
<dholbach> (I thought they'd still call it somewhere on their own)
<dholbach> somerville32: will you give me the link?
<somerville32> dholbach, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3746
<dholbach> a few things: you're lacking a binary-arch target, you need to depend on gksu, also the path ./usr/lib/pyenighborhood/build.py looks wrong
<dholbach> and you're patching the source, I'd rather fix it in debian/rules or in a patch in debian/patches
<somerville32> Why do I need a binary-arch target?
<somerville32> It is binary-indep
<LaserJock> well, 1 SRU ready to go. I'm heading to bed
<LaserJock> cya everybody
<dholbach> "All of build, binary, binary-arch, binary-indep, and clean must be provided, even if they don't do anything for this package."
<somerville32> Where do you see that patch?
<somerville32> *path
<dholbach> debian/install
<somerville32> Can I just delete build.py since I've disabled compiling the python source?
<dholbach> that's from upstream?
<somerville32> Yes.
<dholbach> I wouldn't do it
<somerville32> Can I move the source into it's own directory?
<dholbach> you'd either have to 1) change the .orig.tar.gz (which you shouldn't) or 2) carry around a patch that you have to update with every upstream release
<dholbach> like where?
<somerville32> under the root of the source package
<somerville32> Actually, that would be a bad idea
<somerville32> I would have to modify all the script
<somerville32> *scripts
<dholbach> I'm also not sure that python and python-support are build-depend-indep
<dholbach> I think they're needed in the clean target
<dholbach> but I'm not sure
<dholbach> and lintian doesn't seem to mind
<somerville32> dholbach: I could just put them in clean too
<dholbach> somerville32: that's not what I meant... things that are used in the clean target need to be biuld-depends, not build-depends-indep
<somerville32> dh_pysupport isn't used in clean
<dholbach> ok
<somerville32> So, beisdes those points, everything else looks good?
<dholbach> run     lintian -i     on the .changes file
<dholbach> it still has some points about it
* Hobbsee wonders what the -i does
<Hobbsee> ahhh
<dholbach> -i nformation! :-)
<Fujitsu> I thought as much.
<somerville32> The only thing lintian returned was: E: pyneighborhood_0.3-0ubuntu1_source.changes: bad-distribution-in-changes-file feisty
<somerville32> I'm going to bed
<Hobbsee> night somerville32 
<dholbach> run it on the *i386.changes
<dholbach> oh, he's away
<RAOF> Hey all.  I've made some moderately awful (but amd64 only) changes to the wine packaging to make it build a useful amd64 package.  Is the best next step to get a REVU account, file a bug and attach a debdiff, or what?
<RAOF> (it's not obvious to me from the MOTU wiki pages what's preferred).
<Hobbsee> grab a LP account, file a bug, attach a debdiff
<RAOF> Thanks.
<cypher1> is util-linux taken from upstream ?
<CypherBIOS> ping Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> CypherBIOS: heya
<CypherBIOS> Hobbsee: hi :)
<CypherBIOS> Hobbsee: please, don't forget my package, I want to know how I need to do now (I know, need much more, but what?) Can you review again, or point someone to do it?!
<Hobbsee> what's the link to it?
<CypherBIOS> Hobbsee: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3587
* Hobbsee has forgotten everything
<haypo> hi! i have to create a package of a Python program. Should I use cdbs, python-central, or something else?
<CypherBIOS> Hobbsee: hehehe
<haypo> I read that python-central is not in Ubuntu Dapper (and I'm using Dapper)
<Hobbsee> looking
<Hobbsee> haypo: you'll have to package it for feisty, the development version
<Hobbsee> !packagagingguide
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about packagagingguide - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<Hobbsee> !packagingguide
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
<Hobbsee> haypo: check ^ out
<Hobbsee> CypherBIOS: section: gnome - is gnome a section in the debian maintainers guide about it?  i dont think so
<Hobbsee> and is it really for gnome only?
<CypherBIOS> Hobbsee: let me take a look
* Fujitsu has a package in Debian in Section: gnome.
<CypherBIOS> Hobbsee: I'll change it for System Administration section
<CypherBIOS> Hobbsee: just like synaptic, that have similar functions
<Lathiat> imbrandon: about?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: oh so it does exist?
<Hobbsee> cool
<Hobbsee> CypherBIOS: there you go
* Hobbsee hasnt tried test-building it yet
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: how good are you with python based stuff?
<Fujitsu> Not particularly.
<Fujitsu> Coding yes, packaging no.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: more of an idea than me then - did you want to check it for python-foo?
<CypherBIOS> Hobbsee: I confused about the number version (I'm the developer of the aptoncd, and this package will be for the first release -next week, probably- and the version will be 0.1, the program are not on debian yet, and I need to put -0ubuntu1 on version?)
<Hobbsee> if the upstream version, is 0.1, then the ubuntu would be 0.1-0ubuntu1
<Hobbsee> however, if this is really 0.09, a precursor to 0.1, then use 0.09-0ubuntu1
<CypherBIOS> Hobbsee: right, I got it. thanks
<Hobbsee> CypherBIOS: of course, 0.1-1 > 0.1, so you cant release 0.1-1 first
<CypherBIOS> Hobbsee: so should be 0.1-0ubuntu1
<dholbach> i'll assign all the motureviewers bugs to ubuntu-universe-sponsors - objections?
<Fujitsu> Yes.
<Hobbsee> CypherBIOS: yes
<Hobbsee> dholbach: go for it.  just means more work for us :0
<Fujitsu> dholbach: They should be subscribed, no?
<dholbach> Fujitsu: ok, I can do that
<Hobbsee> yes, subscribe us, dont assign
<dholbach> Fujitsu: I just don't want to have them assigned to a team that has gone out of business
<Fujitsu> Good idea.
<CypherBIOS> Hobbsee: what is the roadmap since the package goes to the repository?
<Hobbsee> sorry?
<CypherBIOS> Hobbsee: when an package are "ready", how long time it need to wait to be on universe?
<Hobbsee> after they get uploaded?  depends how quick the archive admins are
<CypherBIOS> :)
<Lathiat> 2x 3.2GHz Xeon, 2GB ram, 182M/s of root disk, this could work nice.
<dholbach> somebody should check the wiki for occurences of 'motureviewers'
<CypherBIOS> Hobbsee: is that my program that I've packaging are not released yet, and I just packaging and learning how to do it for now, and it should be uploaded only when I say "ok, it's ready for", and of course when the package are working very well
<Hobbsee> CypherBIOS: fair enough.  it still needs 2 acks.
<Hobbsee> dholbach: responding to the mail you sent
<Hobbsee> btw
<dholbach> super thanks
<Hobbsee> dholbach: how many active MOTU's do we have at the moment?
<Fujitsu> Not a whole lot :(
<Hobbsee> didnt think so
* Fujitsu checks feisty-changes for a definitive number.
<dholbach> we should go through the 'ubuntu-dev' list and ask people for feedback
<dholbach> if they don't reply, we should close their accounts
<Fujitsu> THat's a very good idea, dholbach.
<dholbach> that's something we should decide in the first motu council meeting
<Fujitsu> Have the members of Council Grayskull been decided yet?
<dholbach> no, the TB and CC still need to sign off the idea and then decide
<raphink> dholbach: I still review from time to time
<raphink> :)
* dholbach hugs raphink
<dholbach> :-)
* raphink hugs dholbach
<dholbach> *happy*
<raphink> (just because I noticed I was deactivated)
<dholbach> it's not 'you' being deactivated
* cbx33 is an active MOTU ;) - just not as active as I want to be due to work ;)
<dholbach> raphink: the team is just out of business as we have a different sponsoring process
<raphink> oooh ok 
<raphink> ic
<dholbach> i'll write a mail shortly
<raphink> ok
<dholbach> done
<engla> I wonder, are revu packages accepted now or are they deferred to closer to the UVF? I mean if things like toolchain and core libs (python etc) are still changing on feisty, it might be too early to incorporate new packages
<Hobbsee> argh, dammit
* Hobbsee has forgotten what she wanted to write
<Hobbsee> dholbach: replied.
<Hobbsee> gah!!!  drat!!!
* Hobbsee has now remembered
<dholbach> thanks
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: I would also love what?
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: a shell on Lathiat's fast build machine
<Hobbsee> dholbach: right.  sent another mail with the stuff i missed in the first one :P
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: ah
<StevenK> Hobbsee: What, mine isn't fast enough?
<Hobbsee> StevenK: you gave an account to TheMuso?
<StevenK> Not so much
<TheMuso> I only use my machines here, and would rather not worry about it until I realy need them, which is not yet.
<StevenK> TheMuso: Where's your amd64, powerpc and ia64 hiding?
<TheMuso> StevenK: I have a powerpc here, all be it slow. Amd64/ia64/sparc are non-existant.
<StevenK> hppa?
* StevenK smirks, knowing the answer.
<TheMuso> StevenK: You should.
<StevenK> I'm missing a powerpc and ia64 from the supported arches list. My sparc and hppa are incredibly slow, though.
* Fujitsu drowns in bug spam.
<webben> Are there instructions anywhere for applying a diff.gz patch such as the one at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/58083/ to an apt-get source'd package before building it?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 58083 in xorg-server "No keyboard previews" [Unknown,Fix released]  
<sladen> webben: it is applied automatically when the source is unpacked
<sladen> webben: the .orig (upstream tarball) is unpacked, then the diff (of Ubuntu/Debian changes) applied on top
<webben> sladen, No. I don't want to apply the diff.gz that I apt-get source'd. I want to apply the patch in the bug report.
<webben> sladen, I assume that somehow the dsc file has to be updated, no?
<sladen> webben: correct, apply the patch from the bug report, modify  debian/changelog  (insert a new ubuntuX version number)
<sladen> webben: then  debbuild
<webben> zgrep +++ foobar.diff.gz applies the patch?
<webben> as in https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/ps-scratch.html ?
<cbx33> ping sladen 
<cbx33> ping TheMuso 
<TheMuso> cbx33: pong
<webben> or does zgrep just look at the changes
* webben finds the packaging docs confusing
<raphink> webben: how so?
<dholbach> Hobbsee: so I don't think it's problematic and something we should teach them when it comes to reviews
<webben> raphink, well for instance it would be less confusing if they tacked best practice first (if you look at the page i just linked to ... it begins with a discussion of how not to do things.)
<Hobbsee> dholbach: perhaps...
<raphink> Laser_away: ping
<Hobbsee> dholbach: also disturbing is that hopefulls are putting up packages, and then going "pbuilder?  what's that?" and not knowing about chroots either.  
<Sp4rKy> hi there
<Hobbsee> hey Sp4rKy 
<Sp4rKy> heya Hobbsee 
<dholbach> Hobbsee: that's not something related to reviewing
<dholbach> Hobbsee: that's something they should do apart from that already
<webben> raphink, And I guess I don't fully understand the distinction drawn in the structure of the document between Patching packages and Updating packages.
* StevenK continues playing "debugging katapult while going insane" game.
<sladen> cbx33: yo
<Hobbsee> dholbach: the automatic builds would pick that up
<dholbach> Hobbsee: which ones?
<Hobbsee> dholbach: there's a difference between "should" and "are" apparently
<Hobbsee> dholbach: the "iv'e just created this in my own system"
<cbx33> sladen: pm :p
<cbx33> oh btw does your power supply work now ?
<dholbach> Hobbsee: aha?!
<dholbach> *confused*
<StevenK> Wonderful. Katapult dies in QEventLoop.
* StevenK continues installing debug libraries and smashing his head against blunt objects.
<effie_jayx> I am new here.. and I must say... this is fun to read... :D
<sladen> cbx33: one of the joints worked, it turned out that most of the other one has disappeared/broken off.  I'll attack it agian another time
<dholbach> Hobbsee: if you could follow up with that on the mailing list, that'd be great - I'm out for a walk and lunch and stuff now - see you later
* dholbach hugs Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> dholbach: i suspect it's a case of "if we make it as easy as possible to review, and automate as much as possible, then MOTU's will do more reviewing, and the problem solved".
* dholbach hugs Hobbsee
* dholbach hugs Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hehe :)
<dholbach> Hobbsee: I 100%ly agree
* dholbach hugs Hobbsee again
<Hobbsee> dholbach: the summary:  people arent doing what's required - let's have a way to pick that up.
<dholbach> yeah
<cbx33> sladen: did you get a chance to sign my key ?
<dholbach> see you :)
<cbx33> I'm a useless MOTU still ;)
<StevenK> Noooooooooooooo! There's no libqt3-mt-dbgsym
<Hobbsee> and stop wasting the time of people who are there
<Hobbsee> dholbach: ^
<Hobbsee> dholbach: enjoy your lunch :)
<dholbach> gracias
* Hobbsee had a package fail 8 TIMES during compile!
<Hobbsee> 8!!!!
<webben> raphink, or because it doesn't seem to have a straightforward explanation of the inter-relationship between the three components of a source package, such that i cant work out how to apply one bit to another bit
<Hobbsee> which is completely unnacceptable, took ages, and should have had an automatic way of picking that up.
<sladen> cbx33: see PM
<webben> raphink, instead it has an explanation of how to generate the three bits
<raphink> webben: can you report that to laserjock ?
<raphink> webben: mantha [at]  ubuntu [dot]  com
<raphink> please
<webben> raphink, sure ... I'll try and put my thoughts in order and write something for him.
<raphink> thank you :)
<raphink> I'm sure he'll be happy to have feedback
<raphink> :)
<raphink> webben: have you tried to read the Debian packaging guide?
<webben> raphink, I think I did try once.
<webben> is it the same as Debian New Maintainers' Guide ?
<raphink> the goal of the ubuntu packaging guide is really to make something easer than the DNMG
<CypherBIOS> Hobbsee: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3748
<CypherBIOS> Hobbsee: take a quick look :)
<webben> hmm ... from the DNMG it looks like every diff.gz needs a dsc to be useful
<webben> If someone else wants to re-create your package from scratch, they can easily do so using the above three files. The extraction procedure is trivial: just copy the three files somewhere else and run dpkg-source -x gentoo_0.9.12-1.dsc.
<webben> http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ch-build.en.html#s-debuild
<webben> but then I cant understand why this patch was distributed as a diff.gz by itself
<Hobbsee> it's just a diff, compressed.  you can apply that as a regular patch
<webben> Hobbsee, but what creates a new dsc?
<Hobbsee> debuild -S
<Hobbsee> as to why you need a .dsc if you want to create a binary, i'm not sur
<cbx33> sladen, are you identifed? I'm not getting a pm?
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Because it associates the .diff.gz to the .orig.tar.gz
<Hobbsee> StevenK: yes, of course, but if you're building a binary...
<Hobbsee> which i thought webben was
<Lure> SteveK: do you have non-default locale (re katapult crash)?
<Lure> StevenK: Tonio_ included a patch in edgy (updates afair) to fix crash for non-english users - maybe this is missing in feisty
<StevenK> Lure: I'm running Edgy, and no I'm not.
<StevenK> It doesn't crash, and I've sorted it out, it's due to focusing.
<Lure> StevenK: ok
<webben> hmm .... i must have applied the patch wrong
<webben> because when i run debuild it a) tries to apply the original diff.gz from apt-get and b) fails
<webben> was going into xorg-server-1.1 and running patch < ../xxorg-server_1.1.1-0ubuntu12.01.diff the wrong thing to do?
<webben> how should a diff.gz patch be applied if not using patch ?
<Hobbsee> webben: no, you did it right.  youv'e applied the patch, and you now want to build the binary
<Hobbsee> why's it failing?
<Hobbsee> what *are* you trying to do? 
* Hobbsee is lost
<webben> actually it seems to be failing because it needs to be run with fakeroot or something  (various gpg errors)
<webben> but shouldnt it /not/ be using  xorg-server_1.1.1-0ubuntu12.dsc anyhow?
<webben> Hobbsee, what Im trying to do is build an xorg-server deb package with the fix for the bug
<Hobbsee> !info xorg-server feisty
<ubotu> Package xorg-server does not exist in edgy
<Hobbsee> webben: for edgy or feisty?
* webben is confused
<Hobbsee> ie, is the fix already included?
<webben> edgy
<webben> i thought
<Hobbsee> oh right
<Hobbsee> so you've got your edgy source?
<Hobbsee> you've patched it with the .diff from the bug report?
<Hobbsee> and now you just need to rebuild it?
<webben> Hobbsee, that's the theory :)
<Hobbsee> yep
<Hobbsee> do you need the source, or can you just use the binary?
<Hobbsee> and did you change the version number in debian/control?
<Hobbsee> er, debian/changelog?
<webben> Hobbsee, ah, no
<webben> I didnt do that.
<Hobbsee> good
<webben> I shouldnt you mean?
<Hobbsee> correct
<Hobbsee> go into the source dir, then run debuild -rfakeroot
<StevenK> Which requires all build dependancies, build-essential and fakeroot are installed
<webben> got those :)
<webben> "Applying patches...failed! (check stampdir/log/patch for details)"
<webben> fatal error
<StevenK> I daresay xserver-xorg is a very complicated package to start with.
<StevenK> I know you're doing it so you can fix/confirm a fix for a bug, but still. :-)
<webben> StevenK, I certainly didnt choose to do this as a learning exercise :). But my keyboard mappings are driving me slowly up the wall.
<webben> the only thing in that file that looks like it might be an error is 'Hunk #Patch 021_fedora_revert_xkb_changes+gmk.patch does not exist'
<webben> but that's in the middle of the file ... if it was an error wouldn't it be at the end?
<webben> the file ends with "Applying patch 021_fedora_revert_xkb_changes+gmk.patch"
<StevenK> Does debian/patches/021_fedora_revert_xkb_changes+gmk.patch exist?
<webben> StevenK, nope
<StevenK> debian/patches does actually contain files, right?
<webben> yep
<StevenK> How about debian/patches/00list ?
<StevenK> (Or 000list)
<webben> nope
<webben> StevenK, neither of them
<StevenK> It has to pick the list somehow.
<StevenK> Can you throw ls -l debian/patches onto a pastebin?
<webben> sure :)
<webben> StevenK, http://ubuntu.pastebin.ca/276542
<StevenK> Okay, what about the contents of debian/patches/series?
<webben> StevenK, http://ubuntu.pastebin.ca/276544
<StevenK> Hrm. Wierd.
<crimsun> lfittl: no, they're not useless, so removing $(CFLAGS) would be suboptimal
<webben> StevenK, "Hrm. Wierd." are like words of doom for an enterprise of this nature ;)
<StevenK> Heh
<geser> hmm, patch 021 is mentioned in http://librarian.launchpad.net/4946825/xorg-server_1.1.1-0ubuntu12.01.diff.gz
<StevenK> So maybe your patch didn't apply correct.
<StevenK> correctly
<crimsun> geser: now that xserver-xorg-video-i810-modesetting is available in Feisty, it'd be a good idea to ask for the removal of xserver-xorg-video-intel from the archive
<webben> StevenK, how would I know whether it applied correctly or not?
<webben> StevenK, Or do put it another way, how could I try the same thing differently?
<geser> crimsun: do you know what's the difference between xserver-xorg-video-intel and xserver-xorg-video-i810?
<crimsun> yes, the former is an older git snapshot of what's provided by xserver-xorg-video-i810-modesetting
<crimsun> the latter is the non-modesetting branch from svn
<crimsun> I have much better usage (performance, stability) with xserver-xorg-video-i810-modesetting in feisty
<Hobbsee> crimsun: what differences are there with it?
<Hobbsee> blerg, i'll wait
<crimsun> Hobbsee: the vt-switch crasher, while still reproducible, is much less frequent
<cbx33> is the Alt+Tab d-i bug fixed yet ;)
<crimsun> Hobbsee: (a number of locking fixes are in feisty's snapshot)
<cbx33> that one still get's me ;)
<Hobbsee> crimsun: right
<geser> crimsun: are you going to file a bug for the removal of xserver-xorg-video-intel (you seem to know more about it than me)?
<lifeless> siretart: what happened to motureviewers ?
<crimsun> geser: yes, I mentioned it because you did the merge for xserver-xorg-video-i810-modesetting
<siretart> lifeless: I'm not sure, there is currently some discussion on the motu mailing list about that
<lifeless> oh, i see
<lifeless> gnight all
<zul> siretart: heh i thought i got kicked out
<seaLne> hwat were those scripts called for easily making patches (creating tmp copy etc)?
<seaLne> ah i was thinking of things like dsrc-new-patch
<jbailey> dholbach: Around?
<chantra> hi there
<chantra> how can I work this around?
<chantra> "Your diff file is very big because the Makefile.in was changed during autogen process"
<chantra> any time I build the package, Makefile.in is going to be regenerated :s
<chantra> therefore the diff is going to be huge
<minghua> an existing package in archive?
<chantra> is there a trick to avoid that
<chantra> minghua: it is in edgy
<zul> nnnng....must kill
<chantra> but I'm updating it for feisty
<minghua> chantra: what package?
<chantra> subtitleeditor
<chantra> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3728
<minghua> chantra: subtitleeditor doesn't run autotools during build, so you shouldn't regenerate Makefile.in
<minghua> I don't have time to look further now though, maybe later
<chantra> minghua: i've removed autoge.sh from debian/rules
<minghua> chantra: and you shouldn't using REVU for a package already in Debian and Ubuntu
<chantra> hoppefully, this is going to sort it out :)
<chantra> where then?
<chantra> how can i submit it to multiverse?
<chantra> minghua: removing autogen.sh from debian/rules sorted it out
<minghua> paste a patch/debdiff as a bug
<minghua> and ask a MOTU to review and sponsor the upload
<chantra> in lauchpad then
<minghua> yes
<chantra> okie dokie
<geser> chantra: file a bug, attach debdiff, subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors, wait
<chantra> geser: like that to get a debdiff
<chantra> debdiff xcdroast_0.98+0alpha15-1.1.dsc xcdroast_0.98+0alpha15-1.1ubuntu1.dsc | \ ubuntu.debdiff | less ubuntu.debdiff
<shawarma> Hi, guys. I'm about to mark my first bug as "Fix released" after becoming a MOTU. Am I supposed to put anything in particular in the comment? Like the .changes file from the upload or something?
<geser> chantra: debdiff old.dsc new.dsc > debdiff
* proppy hugs dholbach
<minghua> chantra: I've added a note on REVU
<chantra> okie cheers geser 
<minghua> chantra: you may also want to look at the merge page I pointed out there
<chantra> yep, justed checked it out
<chantra> thanks a million for the link ;)
<sistpoty> hi folks
* dholbach hugs proppy back
<joejaxx> are there logs of *-motu?
<lionel_> joejaxx: IRC logs ?
<joejaxx> yes
<lionel_>  http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs
<joejaxx> ok thanks :)
<lionel> joejaxx: you're welcome
<joejaxx> :)
<chantra> minghua: still here?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<minghua> chantra: yes
<chantra> minghua: shall I simply meerge the debian package to ubuntu
<minghua> chantra: yes, that's what I think
<chantra> :)
<minghua> chantra: and is there any local changes?  a sync would be even better
<chantra> gonna see if the patch I used is not required anymore
<chantra> minghua: okie, patch is not required anymore but the diff.gz is real dirty :s
<minghua> chantra: sorry, have to run.  just post what you have in the bug report, I'll look at it later
<seaLne> what would be a version number equivalent to 1.0rc1-0ubuntu1 but that wouldn't get complaints due to the 1 in rc1?
<Adri2000> seaLne: 1.0~rc1-0ubuntu1 I think
<seaLne> ewww that made dch rename my directory
<seaLne> nah ~ there didn't fix the error complaint
<dholbach> herve just left the MOTUs :-/
<dholbach> *cry*
<bddebian> What??
<dholbach> the MOTU team
<somerville32> Why?! :(
<dholbach> I guess he had not enough time
* somerville32 hugs dholbach sadly.
<dholbach> 'The status of Herv Cauwelier membership on team "motu" (MOTU) was changed from Administrator to Deactivated.'
<dholbach> I wanted to mail him anyway.
<LaserJock> raphink: pong
<raphink> haha
<raphink> LaserJock: hi
<raphink> someone had issues with the packaging guide earlier today
<raphink> he said he would email you
<Zic_> hi, anyone for testing my last package ? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3749 :)
<Zic_> if somebody have the time to do :)
<LaserJock> raphink: ok, I see it, interesting
<somerville32> I do noticed an issue with the packaging guide
<somerville32> The latest build from svn looks like it is missing parts (or did last night atleast)
<LaserJock> yeah, we lost the main part
<LaserJock> I gotta go see why it didn't build right (usually becuase the xml doesn't validate)
<sistpoty> Zic_: config.guess is in the diff.gz, you should remove that in clean
<sistpoty> Zic_: also you should remove the commented out debhelper commands from debian/rules
<Sp4rKy> hy there
<sistpoty> Zic_: why do you put changelog.sh in the .diff.gz? (it seems rather a script for producing a changelog entry from cvs than some documentation to me)
<Sp4rKy> please, does a package can have an empty diff (ie, debian/ is in orig) ?
<Zic_> sistpoty: thanks for your help, I know for dh_* commented in the debian/rules, I'm just waiting between the next upload :)
<Sp4rKy> i think no , but if someone can make me sure
<Zic_> hmm sistpoty I've forgot it .. :)
<LaserJock> Sp4rKy: like the diff.gz is 0KB ?
<Zic_> changelog.sh is del from debian/docs :)
<sistpoty> Zic_: I'm just building it, and have a further look... that just sprang to my mind from reading the .diff.gz ;)
<Sp4rKy> LaserJock: indeed (in fact there is no diff.gz and the diff file is named *.diff :| )
<sistpoty> Sp4rKy: not quite sure bout that one... that would be a native package then (which has its own drawbacks as well)
<LaserJock> Sp4rKy: well, that's not normal. If the debian/ is in the tarball it's a debian native package and should have only .tar.gz and .dsc files
<Sp4rKy> k
<azeem> native packages which are unrelated to Ubuntu or Debian are discouraged though, AFAIK
<Zic_> sistpoty: ok, so I'm erasing the changelog.sh, dh_* commented in the debian/rules, and remove config.guess in the "clean command" of the rules wright ?
<LaserJock> right, hi azeem :-)
<azeem> hi LaserJock 
<Zic_> sistpoty: anythings can I do ?
<sistpoty> Zic_: right (but as written before, I'm still building it, so maybe more hints from me in a few minutes) ;)
<Zic_> sistpoty: thanks for your help :)
<sistpoty> Zic_: np
<sistpoty> Zic_: another problem: it won't build E: Package libsdl-ttf1.2-dev has no installation candidate
<sistpoty> Zic_: I guess you should use libsdl-ttf2.0-dev instead
<Zic_> sistpoty: oops, I can't test my build's package, pbuilder (with build-essential) was broken in Feisty ...
<bddebian> sistpoty: Heya.  If you happen to get bored at some point, would you mind looking at libparagui again?
<sistpoty> Zic_: you could dist-upgrade one from edgy ;)
<sistpoty> hi bddebian
<sistpoty> bddebian: btw, where did you get this package from? I've seen this in the debian new-queue, but couldn't find a place to obtain it
<Zic_> sistpoty: the dist-upgrade had removed it, and the re-install was broken apparently ...
<Zic_> a problem with gcc
<sistpoty> Zic_: nice :(
<Zic_> I published the problem in launchpad.net :)
<Zic_> sistpoty: Hmm, so I will upload a next package of menareants, with all the correction who you say :)
<sistpoty> Zic_: another thing: you should really split off the data (~33Mb) to a seperate arch:all package
<Zic_> sistpoty: I think it, ok :)
<Zic_> thanks :>
<sistpoty> np ;)
<Zic_> ok, I see it tomorrow, bye and thanks :)
<sistpoty> Zic_: cya
<Sp4rKy> LaserJock: sistpoty the package contains debian/ which have a lot of dh_make template informaton
<Sp4rKy> so i don't think it's a debian package
<bddebian> sistpoty: It's in Debian? Hmm.  I pulled it from http://www.paragui.org
<sistpoty> bddebian: sitting in the new queue, so I doubt it will get get in anytime soon: http://ftp-master.debian.org/new.html
<LaserJock> Sp4rKy: what we mean is if the package is specific to Debian or Ubuntu (i.e. a metapackage) then it should be a native package
<LaserJock> Sp4rKy: otherwise it's best for it to not be
<sistpoty> Sp4rKy: how about just trying to create this package with a 0b diff and see if it fails? of course you can and should contact upstream and ask if they could remove the debian directory from the tarball for the next release
<Sp4rKy> i don't think thisis due to upstream, but to the packager
<sistpoty> Sp4rKy: what package are you talking about actually?
<LaserJock> sistpoty: he's running his own REVU system
<LaserJock> so I imagine it's a package somebody uploaded
<sistpoty> LaserJock: ah... 
<LaserJock> I could be wrong though
<Sp4rKy> sistpoty: a package of revu than i'm reviewing
<Sp4rKy> LaserJock: you're wrong this time :)
<sistpoty> Sp4rKy: have you checked, if the orig-tarball is the same as the one from upstream?
<Sp4rKy> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3423
<Sp4rKy> sistpoty: not yet
<Sp4rKy> sistpoty: i'm doing :)
<sistpoty> Sp4rKy: maybe this will shed some more light ;)
<Sp4rKy> sistpoty: in fact i can't :)
<Sp4rKy> there isn't the website adress in copyright
<Sp4rKy> only templates :)
<sistpoty> Sp4rKy: seems like that should get fixed first ;)
<Sp4rKy> of course :)
<LaserJock> Sp4rKy: ah well, I guess wrongly ;-)
<Sp4rKy> LaserJock: np
<Sp4rKy> LaserJock: but indeed, my own revu works fine now :)
<Sp4rKy> thx siretart & raphink :)
<Sp4rKy> LaserJock: i've talk with raphink some hours ago
<Sp4rKy> and it says me i can send him my reviewing comments, and he add them to REVU
<Sp4rKy> he 's done it with 2 
<Sp4rKy> can you do the same for the packages i've just checked ?
<LaserJock> Sp4rKy: ok
<Sp4rKy> thx
<sistpoty> bddebian: lintian complains about the package name of the library, should be libparagui-1.1-8 instead of libparagui1.1-8
<sistpoty> bddebian: and the .so symlink should be part of the -dev package
<bddebian> Hmm, I didn't get that locally.  Thanks sistpoty
<sistpoty> bddebian: also it might be an idea, to update the current libparagui packages and transition moagg/asc now. From reading http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=316335 looks like the debian games team is also waiting for it
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 316335 in libparagui1.0-dev "libparagui1.0: new version available" [Wishlist,Open]  
<sistpoty> bddebian: but not sure about that one, it just *might* be worth to make this transition now, but that's up to you ;)
<Sp4rKy> LaserJock: just sent an email to you
<LaserJock> Sp4rKy: it's not exactly wrong to have changes to the source in the diff
<bddebian> sistpoty: I thought about that, but the 1.1 stuff is the "development" branch :-(
<sistpoty> bddebian: well, but there are only 2 rdepends... but still your choice ;)
<Sp4rKy> LaserJock: really ?
<bddebian> sistpoty: :)
<Sp4rKy> i thought all the change must be done in debian/ or with patches
<Sp4rKy> not directly
<luisbg> is k3d still giving problems in feisty?
<sistpoty> btw.: what do you all think about holding a revu day RSN?
<sistpoty> s.th. like this week?
<LaserJock> maybe, we'v been kickin' butt lately but there's sure a lot more to do
<LaserJock> *we've
<LaserJock> I'd like to see the MOTU Council together and a MOTU Meeting soon
<sistpoty> LaserJock: yes, same here
<sistpoty> LaserJock: maybe would should just set up a date for a motu-meeting, and not wait for progress on the council right now
<sistpoty> dholbach: what do you estimate how long it takes until the motu council will be established, and what do you think about doing a motu meeting RSN?
<sistpoty> (sorry for pinging you while on -meeting ;)
<dholbach> sistpoty: I can't promise anything especially with christmas and holidays coming on
<dholbach> I will ping the CC and the TB soon about it again, very soon
<sistpoty> dholbach: so what about holding a motu-meeting this or next week?
<dholbach> as soon as I hear anything, I'll let y'all know
<sistpoty> dholbach: yay, cool#
<sistpoty> -#
<dholbach> can you mail -motu about the meeting?
<sistpoty> dholbach: sure, will do
<dholbach> I have two days where I won't be able to make it
<dholbach> 18th and 21st
<dholbach> I'll follow up on the thread
* sistpoty opens korganizer
<sistpoty> LaserJock: preferred date/time? anyone else preferred date/time?
<LaserJock> 20:00 UTC is generally a decent time
* proppy hugs dholbach
<dholbach> heya proppy
<sistpoty> hm... where is that calendar again, when -meeting is busy?
<sistpoty> ah, got it
<imbrandon> moins all
<sistpoty> hi imbrandon
<imbrandon> heya sistpoty 
<psusi> o/
<proppy> \o
<zul> hey imbrandon 
<imbrandon> heya zul
<imbrandon> just got you email
<imbrandon> hehe
<zul> heh
<somerville32> imbrandon: Did you get my e-mail?
<ajmitch> morning
<imbrandon> somerville32: yes 
<imbrandon> heya ajmitch 
<imbrandon> somerville32: about the account
<LaserJock> imbrandon: hi
<somerville32> :D
<imbrandon> heya LaserJock wow everyone is on today 
<ajmitch> dholbach: about the motu council, I thought it was only blocked on the CC/TB approving members & delegation?
<imbrandon> yea i was gonna ask about the mout concil
<dholbach> It was not discussed in the CC yet
<imbrandon> what are we doing with that ? are we still nominating people? etc etc etc i know what we talked about at UDS but i thought there was some talk at a TB/CC meeting reciently
<dholbach> there was in a TB meeting
<ajmitch> there was a TB meeting recently
<somerville32> Zarul: Did they already do you?
<dholbach> i'll write to the TB and CC and let you know what the state is
<imbrandon> cool
<imbrandon> so do we have a group to put infront of the TB and get approval? or is that what the email wll be ?
<zul> oh me me me ;)
<ajmitch> I think any group membershpi is being blocked on the CC approval
<ajmitch> yeah, we want zul ;)
<ajmitch> *cough*
<zul> :P i know where you live
<zul> ...in theory
<imbrandon> right i know that but i mean do we even have a list of canidates ? are we ( as MOTU's and core-devs supose to be nominating people ? )
<imbrandon> etc
<imbrandon> hehe
<ajmitch> nope
<imbrandon> ahh ok
<ajmitch> or there may be a top secret list somewhere
<ajmitch> like in dholbach's skull
<imbrandon> hehehe
* imbrandon takes a drill to dh........
<LaserJock> nooooooo!
<sistpoty> dholbach nominated me recently in secret, I guess I shouldn't tell you this :P
<imbrandon> sistpoty: :)
<dholbach> I asked sistpoty if he could imagine to be on the council
<dholbach> I was asked to ask a few people
<sistpoty> but dholbach didn't say a word about his secret plan for world domination yet ;)
<imbrandon> cool, i was / am just curious :)
<ajmitch> right
<zul> ajmitch: the motu council is like the free masons you just dont know
<ajmitch> zul: yeah, we'll find out when it's done :)
<dholbach> I only know that the CC and TB will have the final word, because they delegate their powers - everything else I don't know either yet
* proppy hugs dholbach
* ajmitch will breathlessly await the freem^Wmotu council announcement :)
<dholbach> freem...?
<ajmitch> never mind :)
<zul> dholbach: free masons supposedly secret society that rule the world
<dholbach> ahhhhh
<dholbach> you learn something new every day
<imbrandon> heh
<proppy> zul: is that the thing where everyone tie everyone else shirt in the back ?
<proppy> 
<proppy> i386 build of poker-network 1.0.32-1 in ubuntu feisty RELEASE Status: 	Chroot problem
<proppy> down
<proppy> damn :(
<zul> dholbach: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_masons
<dholbach> zul: gracias
<zul> np
<zul> ..back to stupid ldap
<LaserJock> zul: how are we going to work the secret handshakes over IRC though?
<proppy> where should i report a chroot problem on the buildd ?
<proppy> (infinity ?)
<zul> LaserJock: uhhh...gif animations?
<LaserJock> ohhh, smart
<imbrandon> lol
<dholbach> oh he... it's the same in German too, I just didn't do the 'translation', when I read it :)
<proppy> http://librarian.launchpad.net/5372767/buildlog_ubuntu-feisty-i386.poker-network_1.0.32-1_CHROOTWAIT.txt.gz
<proppy> weird
<proppy> The following packages will be REMOVED: apt* build-essential*
<dholbach> hahahaha :)
<somerville32> 0_o
<geser> proppy: infinity is on vacation
<dholbach> you can still ask for a retry in #ubuntu-devel
<proppy> geser: infinity Adam Conrad ?
<geser> yes
<proppy> geser: oh ok, i read his mail yesterday
* proppy hugs dholbach
<proppy> thx
* dholbach hugs proppy back
* somerville32 hugs dholbach 
<sistpoty> btw.: this is so strange, I had a really funny bug with konsole (it would always start to hang after a few minutes)... I even have a backtrace
* dholbach hugs somerville32 back too
<sistpoty> today I found out, that may keyboard was the reason why... seems like it's broken
<LaserJock> heh
<sistpoty> yehaa... new keyboard and no more need for xterm (with its tiny font) :)
<dholbach> there's one kernel message indicating a "wonky keyboard cable" - a friend of mine really had that problem in the end - he replaced the keyboard cable and it was all good :)
<sistpoty> dholbach: I doubt it was the cable... (and I also didn't see the dmesg)... I guess it was rather more the wheat bear *g*
<sistpoty> s/bear/beer/
<dholbach> hahaha
<dholbach> probably :)
* proppy hopes http://packages.debian.org/unstable/misc/kvm will pop in ubuntu 
* ajmitch wonders when the next CC meeting will be
<ajmitch> mid-jan?
<zul> probably
<somerville32> It should be bi weekly :/
<ajmitch> somerville32: it's a bit hard at this time of year
<somerville32> tri weekly? :] 
<imbrandon> bi-weekly with big gaps this time of year
<imbrandon> :)
<somerville32> hehe
<somerville32> :] 
<sistpoty> ajmitch: I guess much sooner due to the FC issue today, so I haven't followed the meeting since an hour any longer
<sistpoty> s/so/though/
<siretart> heyho sistpoty 
<ajmitch> yeah, just reading through all the drama
<ajmitch> hey siretart 
<imbrandon> FC issue?
<ajmitch> forums council
<sistpoty> hi siretart
<imbrandon> ahh
<imbrandon> heya siretart 
<sistpoty> siretart: handed in your thesis?
<siretart> sistpoty: yes, finally. on monday :)
<sistpoty> siretart: cool, congrats!
<ajmitch> well done siretart :)
<siretart> now I'm looking at over hundred bugmails :)
<sistpoty> *g*
<siretart> hey imbrandon. hi ajmitch :)
<siretart> omg
<siretart> 240
<imbrandon> congrats somerville32 
<somerville32> Thanks! :)
* somerville32 hugs everyone.
<sistpoty> yay, congrats somerville32
<imbrandon> hrm
<ajmitch> hm?
<imbrandon> is there a time limit on shellscripts run from cron or something ?
<ademan> hey vil, hows it going?  I assume you've been busy, but if there's anything I can do to help I'm happy to do it.  Well, anything within my league, which nothing may be, but I'll be perfectly willing to try.
<imbrandon> if i run the script manualy its all good, but if i run it from cron it dies 1/2 way through
<imbrandon> ajmitch: ^
<ajmitch> imbrandon: should be no time limit that I know of
<imbrandon> hum ok, i'll pipe the output to a log and see if i can figure something else out
<vil> ademan: hey!
<vil> ademan: actually i have a job for you
<ademan> sweet, I'm happy to help
<vil> ademan: test fresh eclipse-cdt-3.1.1
<ademan> you mean you have it packaged? geeze, that was fast, and of course I'm more than happy to do that :-)
<vil> ademan: if i finish it tonight, i will paste it somewhere
<ademan> vil: sure, if you email me the link I'll get to it, I'm actually on my way out
<vil> was not so bad as i spotted that fedora already has it
<ademan> but i wanted to see if you were about before i left
<vil> ok, i have your mail.
<ademan> alright good, thanks, i think i gotta get going, but i'm more than happy to help, and test too:-)
<ademan> by the way good work with this thing, i couldn't evne get past a pbuilder build
<ademan> but yeah I gotta go now, thanks so much for working on it, and I'll test it as soon as I get your email
<Sp4rKy> tkx LaserJock 
<guibis> ping doko
<guibis> doko hands up !:-)
<crippledcanary> I have some errors in creating a feisty pbuilder environment.  libstdc++6: Depends: libgcc1 (>= 1:4.1.1-22) but 1:4.1.1-21ubuntu1 is installed
<crippledcanary> Is there a way to pass on -f to apt-get when using pbuilder create
<sistpoty> cya folks
<ajmitch> bye sistpoty 
<imbrandon> later sistpoty 
* ajmitch wonders what we'll have to start calling members of council grayskull
<ajmitch> we already have prince holbach
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> crippledcanary: feisty probably isnt debootstrapable atm, you might have to make an edgy pbuilder and upgrade it
<crippledcanary> tried that also but then it complains about having to remove apt and some other packages.
* ajmitch needs some music to listen to in the office
<imbrandon> yes you will have to do some dirty stuff, working with the latest development often isnt "clean"
<crippledcanary> I'm fine with dirt as long as I know how to get "dirty"
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> then let it do the upgrade :)
<crippledcanary> Shure ... I have a edgy pbuilder environment ready, what do do?
<imbrandon> there is a apt option is should tell you about when trying to do it, like force loop or something
<imbrandon> pbuilder-edgy login --save-after-login , change the sources.list in there
<imbrandon> then change the /path/to/pbuilder/apt.conf.d/sources.list
<imbrandon> both to feisty
<imbrandon> the pbuilder-edgy -> pbuilder-feisty
<imbrandon> then pbuilder-feisty update
<imbrandon> thats the general overview
<crippledcanary> Ok. whil give it a try.
<imbrandon> there /will/ be hickups in there but all cant be explained from the get go
<imbrandon> we can try to help when the hickup hits :)
<vil> dholbach: still there?
<imbrandon> ajmitch: got a sec
<tsmithe> hi all
<imbrandon> heya tsmithe 
<ajmitch> imbrandon: yeah, sort of
<tsmithe> hi imbrandon :)
<imbrandon> ok see
<imbrandon> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/36690/
<imbrandon> and
<imbrandon> http://voyager.imbrandon.com/mirror/ubuntu/iso/dvd/packageset/
<imbrandon> wtf am i missing
<imbrandon> the iso's arent showing up but the .sh are
<ajmitch> funny
<ajmitch> some apache configuration?
<ajmitch> .htaccess ?
<tsmithe> ...hmm...
<tsmithe> i'm sure someone here will know (though it's not really packaging related): how can i get a list of installed packages from a certain repository?
<imbrandon> hrm no .htaccess
<imbrandon> and normal apache conf
<ajmitch> what apache version?
<imbrandon> 2
<ajmitch> 2.0.x?
<ajmitch> it may skip files over 2GB
<imbrandon> Apache/2.0.55 (Ubuntu) PHP/5.1.6 Server at voyager.imbrandon.com Port 80
<imbrandon> ohhh no way, that sucks
<ajmitch> I don't know how apache in our repositories is configured
* ajmitch tests
<imbrandon> this is edgy if that matters as to what your testing
<ajmitch> yeah feisty has the same apache
<imbrandon> is that in the apache2.conf ?
<imbrandon> or httpd.conf
<imbrandon> as an option 
<ajmitch> apache2.conf
<ajmitch> I don't know if it's an option
* ajmitch has a 3GB file that is created with dd showing up fine at home
<imbrandon> compiletime only ? wow that would suck, i dont wanna roll my own apache
<imbrandon> hrm
<ajmitch> 5GB now
<imbrandon> strange
<ajmitch> still shows
<imbrandon> i've only seen this with perm problems
<imbrandon> but as you see they are all 644
<imbrandon> even the shell scripts
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> odd
* imbrandon touches another file to make sure he is in the right dir
<imbrandon> hrm yea
<imbrandon> i just touched ajmitch.txt
<crippledcanary> imbrandon: I'm now getting this....   xkb-data zlib1g
<crippledcanary> WARNING: The following essential packages will be removed.
<crippledcanary> This should NOT be done unless you know exactly what you are doing!
<crippledcanary>   apt libstdc++6 (due to apt)
<crippledcanary> 121 upgraded, 4 newly installed, 13 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
<crippledcanary> Need to get 48.3MB of archives.
<crippledcanary> After unpacking 26.0MB disk space will be freed.
<crippledcanary> You are about to do something potentially harmful.
<crippledcanary> To continue type in the phrase 'Yes, do as I say!'
<crippledcanary>  ?]  Abort.
<imbrandon> whoa use pastebin from now on please :)
<imbrandon> ummm
<crippledcanary> sorry for the big message...
<imbrandon> yes do as i say
<ajmitch> yeah, it's a problem with feisty at the moment
<ajmitch> a bit annoying
<crippledcanary> Should i do a login and do apt-get dist-upgrade -f
<ajmitch> breaking builds all over the place on launchpad
* ajmitch is getting chroot problem spam for recent uploads
<imbrandon> crippledcanary: yes any way you can
<imbrandon> crimsun: rember its only a chroot , you can break it and remake it
<imbrandon> err crippledcanary 
<imbrandon> corry crimsun 
<imbrandon> sorry*
<imbrandon> damn keyboard
<plugwash> losing apt isn't exactly fatal anyway, you can always download and isntall packages manuaully using dpkg
<crippledcanary> you could use crippled or canary if you like.
<imbrandon> i use tab completition i just did cri<tab> heh
<raphink> losing dpkg is much funnier 
<plugwash> i'm sure its fixable though ;)
<raphink> it sure is
<imbrandon> just rember to --save-after-login if you login to the pbulder otherwise it will wipe the changes when you logout
<crippledcanary> I'm past the Yes, do as I say! part now... let's see how it goes.
<crippledcanary> yes --save-after-login enabled :)
<ajmitch> yeah, I've done manual upgrades where glibc had ABI breakage, *every* package had to be recompiled
<psusi> you can use ar and tar to extract the .deb, and copy the binaries to the correct location ;)
<ajmitch> maintainer scripts & the dpkg db are another problem
<imbrandon> wow that would be nuts
* LaserJock just reinstalls
<ajmitch> imbrandon: I was running the hurd, of course it was nuts
<plugwash> ajmitch my soloution to broken maintainer scripts is just to rm them
<imbrandon> hrm this apache thing has me baffled
<ajmitch> imbrandon: and I was testing the 'hard' upgrade path for someone
<psusi> yea... easier to boot from a livecd and reinstall dpkg/apt that way ;)
<imbrandon> ajmitch: heh
<plugwash> personally i dislike dist-upgrade
<ajmitch> damn, both sync requests actually came through this time
* ajmitch sent one from a bad email address first time, usually caught by spam filters
<plugwash> sometimes it tries to remove things that you don't wan't it to remove, the worst bit is you can't simply say "don't remove this" you have to fall back to using upgrade and finishing off by hand
<pirast> hi!
<ajmitch> plugwash: I use aptitude dist-upgrade
<ajmitch> and aptitude hold
<pirast> in klogic, the changelog says ".desktop file an icon move and modification to meet specs". are there any new specs on desktop files? afaik, the applications need a ,desktop file, is that right?
<plugwash> hmm is subversion universe?
<ajmitch> no, svn is in main
<vil> dholbach: ping
<plugwash> then i think i've just found a bug
<crippledcanary> I know there was issues when using dist-upgrade when upgrading to edgy. (I had a some of them) Would that have been helped with aptitude dist-upgrade
* psusi thinks git >> svn
<LaserJock> pirast: they were probably moved not removed
<plugwash> svn seems to depend on libapr1
<plugwash> which seems to be in universe
<psusi> libapr shouldnt be universe
<psusi> that's part of apache
<ajmitch> yay
<pirast> LaserJock, i'm just wondering because klogic only contains a menu file and not a .desktop one..
<pirast> shall i add it?
* ajmitch marks 3 dupes & the 1 remaining bug on zope-zms is a synd request
<LaserJock> pirast: not even in the source?
<ajmitch> s/synd/sync/
* tsmithe begs for revu'ers
<LaserJock> I think we should just promote Universe to Main and be done with it ;-)
<pirast> LaserJock, argh, wait :-)
<pirast> LaserJock, there's one but it is not being installed correctly..
<ajmitch> plugwash: it appears to depend on libapr0
<ajmitch> plugwash: are you sure you're looking at feisty's subversion, and not sid's?
<pirast> thanks
<plugwash> ajmitch ahh that explains it
<ajmitch> yeah, it'll be cleared up with apache & subversion merges, and some package promotions to main
* plugwash remembers now he upgraded his feisty chroot to sids subversion for checkout compatibility
<plugwash> sorry for reporting a nonexistant issue
* LaserJock slaps plugwash with a large section of Malone code
<cypher1> is not opera available in edgy-commercial repository ?
<LaserJock> is there anything in edgy-commercial?
<plugwash> btw the fiesty apt issue seems to be caused by an out of date libgcc1
<cypher1> LaserJock, apt-get update did not report any error so i thought there may be something
<cypher1> can i install opera from dapper-commercial onto an edgy machine ?
<plugwash> this means if you let it go through with the dist-upgrade and remove apt you are going to have trouble getting apt installed again ;)
<LaserJock> cypher1: yeah
<cypher1> LaserJock, ok cool FF2.0 crashes always for me
<dholbach> vil: pong
<vil> dholbach: @ubuntu mail doesn't seem to work. however, that's not what i am after
<dholbach> vil: you can ask on #launchpad about that - they'll explain what you've got to do
<LaserJock> vil: heh, you are alive, ademan keeps asking where you are :-)
<vil> dholbach: how can one get that shiny people.ubuntu.com/~ space?
<imbrandon> work at canonical
<imbrandon> heh
<dholbach> vil: I'm sorry to say, but that's something only canonical employees have :-/
<dholbach> I think there was a spec about having something like that
<dholbach> but I don't recall it's name
<vil> nevermind
* ajmitch wants the shiny
<vil> well is there any other place where can i put a package for ademan? (17MB)
* imbrandon does too even though i got lots of webspace
<cypher1> i have one enhancement for apt-get
<dholbach> vil: you could either upload it to revu or store it in bzr in launchpad - those are the only 'official' things I can offer you
<imbrandon> vil: i can give you a shell to access http://buntudot.org/people/~vil
<imbrandon> but thats not "official" heh
<cypher1> apt-get should have the capability to download packages from repositories across multiple sessions
<crimsun> ooh, who's handing out random shiny shell access?
<ajmitch> crimsun: imbrandon is!
<ajmitch> well
<ajmitch> maybe :)
* ajmitch volunteers imbrandon for the task
<imbrandon> crimsun: hehe not that you can really do much with its on a shared webhost :)
<vil> i would prefer the bzr way, but i thought that it's for sources, patches... not for .debs
<imbrandon> buntudot.org is 
<somerville32> crimsun: I got approved for membership today :) Thanks for all your help so far. 
* somerville32 hugs.
<crimsun> somerville32: congrats!
<cypher1> sorry wrong window
* Fujitsu likes his people.ubuntu.com.au/~fujitsu.
<imbrandon> heya Fujitsu 
<dholbach> ok fellas - I'm off for tonight
<dholbach> see you tomorrow
<imbrandon> later dholbach 
<Fujitsu> Hi imbrandon.
<Fujitsu> Bye dholbach.
<vil> see you
<crimsun> bye daniel
* Fujitsu searches for breakfast.
<LaserJock> cya dholbach 
<Adri2000> crimsun: do you have some time for an upload? updated merge of blobwars, the bug I reported in debian about the .desktop file is fixed
<imbrandon> ajmitch: did you say the one in feisty does do >2GB ?
<imbrandon> but its the same version ?
<crimsun> Adri2000: LP #?
<tenshu> if the app i'm packaging is under the artistic licence what should paste in debain/copyright, the entire licence text?
<ajmitch> imbrandon: it may be because I'm on amd64
<ajmitch> I haven't tested on the laptop
<LaserJock> ajmitch: thanks for the bug emails :-)
<imbrandon> possible
<ajmitch> LaserJock: zope-zms?
* imbrandon starts to pull his hair out
<Adri2000> crimsun: I didn't want to file another bug for that... :-/ it's just one patch dropped, and one line removed in the ubuntu remaining changes
<ajmitch> 521 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 69 not upgraded.
<ajmitch> Need to get 112MB/551MB of archives. After unpacking 56.1MB will be used.
<ajmitch> that's the state of the laptop at the moment :)
<LaserJock> tenshu: yes
<dholbach> *HUGS*
<LaserJock> ajmitch: yep
* ajmitch hugs dh
<imbrandon> hehe sounds about like my desktop
<ajmitch> too late!
<tenshu> thanks LaserJock
<crimsun> Adri2000: please file a bug
* ajmitch does aptitude upgrade
<Adri2000> ok...
<imbrandon> 74 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 15 to remove and 5 not upgraded.
<imbrandon> 1 not fully installed or removed.
<imbrandon> Need to get 136MB of archives.
<imbrandon> After unpacking 29.1MB disk space will be freed.
<imbrandon> ajmitch: ^6 the state of my desktop
* ajmitch sits refreshing links
<ajmitch> imbrandon: confirmed, it disappears once the file is over 2GB on the laptop
<imbrandon> crap
<ajmitch> 2684354560 bytes (2.7 GB) copied, 91.1713 seconds, 29.4 MB/s
<ajmitch> yay for laptop disks!
<imbrandon> lol
<Adri2000> crimsun: bug 75523 of course it's the debdiff from 1.05-4
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 75523 in blobwars "[Merge]  blobwars 1.05-4ubuntu1" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/75523
<crimsun> Adri2000: ok, I'll look at it in 10 mins after I reboot
<ajmitch> imbrandon: so stick your files on an amd64 & you should be fine :)
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> not an option at the moment
<Adri2000> crimsun: thanks
<imbrandon> hrm
<imbrandon> i wonder what the issue is and if its fixed in a newer apache
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> in apache2.2
<imbrandon> is that in the repos yet?
<ajmitch> it's a deeply seated issue with LFS
<imbrandon> even feisty
<ajmitch> not yet
<ajmitch> apparantly pitti/infinity wanted to hold off on the merge, for some reason
<imbrandon> hrm /me wonders if i should take the task on compiling it himself
<vil> imbrandon: let's make a deal... is that shiny still available?
<imbrandon> vil: sure, give me a few minutes to set it up
<vil> imbrandon: cool
<imbrandon> is your public ssh key on LP ?
<vil> yes
<imbrandon> k
<imbrandon> whats your LP id ?
<vil> vil
<imbrandon> heh ok
<somerville32> imbrandon: poke
<imbrandon> somerville32: one sec
<Lutin> hay
<Lutin> is there a way to sign a lot of packages without having to enter your passphrase endlessly ?
<Fujitsu> Lutin: gpg-agent, or seahorse-agent.
<Lutin> Fujitsu: how do i use it ?
<Fujitsu> I think you just run either of them.
<Fujitsu> Then use GPG/debsign as normal.
<geser> you have to tell gpg to use the gpg-agent
<somerville32> Lutin: Don't have a passphrase on it? :P
<Lutin> somerville32: lol
<Lutin> geser: and how do I tell gpg to use it ?
<somerville32> There is an excellent tuorial for GPG on the wiki
<geser> gpg --use-agent or put "use-agent" in ~/.gnupg/gpg.conf
<geser> when you install gnupg-agent it will put a file in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/ and the agent will be available after the next login
<geser> or you set the necessary env variables in your current session
<Lutin> ok, thanks a lot geser
<Lutin> trying now :)
<imbrandon> ok vil ping
<vil> imbrandon: ssh vil@buntudot.org    asks me a password
<imbrandon> "ssh ssh lapacek@buntudot.org" and test it out, anything in ~/public will be visable in http://www.buntudot.org/people/~vil
<imbrandon> vil was taken for a username
<imbrandon> :)
<vil> ahhh
<imbrandon> s/ssh\ //
<imbrandon> you can remove that .txt file, i just put it there to test and make sure the config worked
<imbrandon> somerville32: pong
<Lutin> geser: when using debsign, I get that message : gpg: problem with the agent - disabling agent use. do you know what's wrong ?
<vil> imbrandon: still asks me for the password, regardless if i use either lapacek or vil
<imbrandon> hrm one sec
<geser> Lutin: no, sorry
<geser> Lutin: did you try to sign a file with gpg (and agent)?
<vil> imbrandon: works now, thanks very much
<imbrandon> np
<imbrandon> there is a 5gb limit just fyi
* vil hugs imbrandon
<imbrandon> no warez or such or i'll delete it without warning :) etc etc etc
<imbrandon> but other than that go for it
<Lutin> geser : gpg --sign --use-agent *dsc > gpg: problem with the agent - disabling agent use
<Lutin> brb
<Lutin> geser: any idea ?
<geser> Lutin: is the agent running?
<geser> is GPG_AGENT_INFO set?
<Lutin> geser: yes
<geser> try adding -v or -vv to gpg
<geser> to make it more verbose
<Lutin> ok
<Lutin> geser: still not more infos
<somerville32> imbrandon: Any updates for shell account to build on?
<siretart> did anyone have a look at bzr-builbdeb?
<imbrandon> somerville32: i'm actualy working on them as we speak
<somerville32> Thanks a bunch :] 
<Lutin> geser: no clues ?
<geser> sorry no
<geser> I've no problems with gpg-agent
<Lutin> geser>do you have a config file for gpg-agent, or some particular settings in gpg.conf ?
<ryanakca> anybody have an example package for packaging cdbs + qmake-qt4 ?
<geser> Lutin: nothing special
<geser> I'm also using pinentry-gtk
<siretart> hmmm.. bzr-builddeb seems to work
<Lutin> geser>do you have a howto configure that ?
<geser> I just installed it
<Lutin> geser: and how do you use it ?
<geser> gpg through gpg-agent uses it to ask my for my passphase
<geser> or my pin for my openpgp card
<Lutin> geser: weird ... here the pinentry window crashes
<Lutin> geser: yay ! that worked
<Lutin> I don't know why, but I had to run gpg -vvv to have it working ... weird
<Lutin> thanks a lot
<geser> that's really weird
<Lutin> geser: you just saved me from the tennis-elbow ... signing too many packages in a row hurts :)
<crimsun> nixternal: please don't set the assigned source package to alsa-driver unless you know for a fact that alsa-source was used in the compilation. Use linux-source-2.6.foo instead.
<crimsun> nixternal: When you use linux-source-2.6.foo, feel free to subscribe ubuntu-audio, too.
<nixternal> roger
<nixternal> want a dorito?
<crimsun> no. I'll just reassign random bugs to kubuntu, though.
* nixternal runs to the ml and unsubscribes
<nixternal> ;p
<nixternal> why assign random bugs to Kubuntu? because Ubuntu gets way to many? jealous? and why would you do that, you said you despised GNOME last week and became a KDE/Qt4 developer full time
<ryanakca> nixternal: lol
<crimsun> I redefected back to gnome.
* ryanakca finds this all very interesting... but:
<somerville32> Come back to Xfce4/GTK2+ :D
<ryanakca> why do I get these errors when pbuilding a package that uses kde.mk in rules: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/36713/
<nixternal> im going to be doing my version of 30 days on FX, but instead I will be living off of GNOME for 30 days, and GNOME only
<somerville32> :D
<ryanakca> nixternal: what kind of coffin do you want? maple sound good?
<crimsun> somerville32: I use all the environments (audio bugs are relevant everywhere)
<somerville32> :)
<ryanakca> I have a cardboard box here if you'd rather have one of those...
<nixternal> nah, solid oak please, with a nice cherry and maple design/crest (Kubuntu logo?)
* ryanakca uses many environments as well... afterstep, xfce.. gnome every now and then... KDE... fvwm, icewm, aewm, ratpoison is just wierd... 
<ryanakca> nixternal: sure
<crippledcanary> Could anyone have a look at my scribes package. Found at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3752
<ryanakca> nixternal: I'll gimp one of those when I'm really bored one day
<nixternal> i use KDE all the time, GNOME only because Debian installs it by default ;p
<ryanakca> KDE is the one I use the most :)
<ryanakca> hmm... looks like pbuilder-feisty is trying to kill itself... http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/36715/
<crippledcanary> ryanakca: I had the same problem earlier tonight
<crippledcanary> pbuilder-feisty login --save-after-login
<crippledcanary> aptitude aptitude && aptitude dist-upgrate
<plugwash> crippledcanary won't that remove apt?
<plugwash> leaving you in an even worse state
<crippledcanary> Let aptitude hold the packages. using apt-get the packages will be removed
<crippledcanary> plugwash: aptitude way works for me
<crimsun> heh, I used update-manager to sidestep.
<crippledcanary> ryanakca: don't forget the --save-after-login or your changes will be lost.
<crimsun> I chose the "distribution upgrade" choice when it was offered
<crippledcanary> ryanakca: you migth have to edit the sources.list if you are doing a upgrade from edgy to feisty
<LaserJock> nixternal: I was going to say something smart like "You'd be more productive if you used a *real* desktop" then I realized I was typing it from OS X ;-)
<nixternal> hahaha
<crimsun> you're allowed to stray from the fold.
<nixternal> but he does it every day
<crimsun> he'll realise before the end.
<nixternal> i think if you were such an open source junky, you would advocate to the uppity ups that you will only use Linux (specifically Kubuntu) or you will quit
<crippledcanary> LaserJock: could you have a look at scribes again, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3752
<LaserJock> crippledcanary: not now but I'll put it on the list
<crippledcanary> LaserJock: thanks.
<LaserJock> nixternal: well, if it wasn't for the fact that virtually my only purpose in using a computer is to work on Ubuntu I'd rather like OS X
<ryanakca> crippledcanary: thanks
<nixternal> i could never get into it...i don't know, im just a winner i guess because i only like linux (debian based preferred)
<crimsun> it sounds like you need some non-Ubuntu computer usage!
<LaserJock> nixternal: as far as DEs go I've just decided to go with which one stinks the least, right now it's Gnome for me
<nixternal> heh, I have Kubuntu installed, Debian Etch, OpenSUSE, Fedora Core 6, Slackware, and I tried to install Gentoo, but my computer said HELL NO!
<nixternal> i guess i gotta get one of them fat tail pipes for my computer first
<LaserJock> I installed FC6 2 nights ago, that was my first non-Ubuntu install in like 2 years
<nixternal> ya, i did it last night and i was actually amazed that people like it
<nixternal> OpenSUSE I can see why people like it, it is decent even though it is rpm based
* LaserJock looks around and tries to gather up the shreds that were his life
<crippledcanary> at work I'm forced to use something called Windows XP
<LaserJock> I feel for you
<imbrandon> at work i'm forced to use ubuntu/windows 2k3/ and vista
<imbrandon> :)
<LaserJock> I haven't had to really use XP for a while
<LaserJock> luckily my boss is a *nix junkie and couldn't use Windows to save his life
<imbrandon> hehe
<nixternal> haha, since i am going to school and receiving my GI Bill I quit working..I got offered a job downtown chicago the other day managing a Microsoft project...i said if it isn't FREE, it isn't me, and hung up
<crippledcanary> I eaven had to use SCO Unix once.... 
<LaserJock> I literally saw him trying to cat a pdf to a printer spool CLI to print on Windows
<imbrandon> hahahahahaha
<nixternal> i just hope that the people who use monster don't communicate that stuff behind the scenes
<nixternal> heh, my sorry arse used to admin sco boxes for the hospital at one time in my pathetic life
<imbrandon> nixternal: thats just stupid imho :) but what ever floats your boat , you'll rarely find a pure FLOSS job
* nixternal admits to likign the servers
<nixternal> im not looking for a job
<imbrandon> :)
<nixternal> they called me out of the blue
<imbrandon> yea but no need to burn a bridge for later :)
<nixternal> well, i intereviewed for a marketing spot this summer and turned that down as well
<ajmitch> sigh
* ajmitch is using XP at the moment
<LaserJock> dude!
<nixternal> im waiting for the start-up to take off, then i am moving in with ajmitch
<imbrandon> heh
<nixternal> i have to finish my masters first, and then debate if i wanna be really cool and do the phd thing
* imbrandon is staying right where he is at
<LaserJock> yeah, PhDs are nice, core-dev is better ;-)
<nixternal> hahahahahaha
<ajmitch> nixternal: haha
<crippledcanary> I'm leaving now. its 11.30 pm here and out of coffeine
<imbrandon> coffeine heh classic
<imbrandon> later
* ajmitch mutters
<ajmitch> nixternal: so when are you coming to NZ? :)
<Adri2000> in a lib package, the so/la/a should go in /lib/ or /usr/lib/ ?
<ajmitch> almost always /usr/lib
<Adri2000> /lib/ is for "core" packages I guess? (essential packages)
<ajmitch> yep
<Adri2000> ok
<nixternal> not soon enough!
<LaserJock> nixternal: can you pick me up on your way?
<nixternal> sure thing
<nixternal> since i don't drink, all my buds thought it would be fun and buy me this drinking kit for x-mas, so i am loaded with pilsners and shot glasses..they came over for the bears game last night, and as a joke, i turned all of the glasses into flower pots and candle holders
<somerville32> :D
<nixternal> they did a WTF when they walked in
<LaserJock> haha
<nixternal> i went to pier 1 and loaded up on the nice gel candle kits, the glass beads..it was great
<nixternal> ok, did i just miss something?
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> someone sneezed
<nixternal> big sneeze, my 'screen irssi' got the snot whacked out of it on that one
<ajmitch> it happens sometimes
<LaserJock> now that stinks
<nixternal> sometimes? it happens more than sometimes
<nixternal> sometimes would be once or twice a week, not a few times a day ;)
<imbrandon> woot , i /think/ the change went ok
<imbrandon> someone ping www.imbrandon.com and tell me the IP they get please
<nixternal> 208.113.154.221
<somerville32> PING www.imbrandon.com (208.113.154.221) 56(84) bytes of data.
<somerville32> 64 bytes from apache2-igloo.gobstopper.dreamhost.com (208.113.154.221): icmp_seq=1 ttl=52 time=123 ms
<somerville32> 64 bytes from apache2-igloo.gobstopper.dreamhost.com (208.113.154.221): icmp_seq=2 ttl=52 time=120 ms
<somerville32> 64 bytes from apache2-igloo.gobstopper.dreamhost.com (208.113.154.221): icmp_seq=3 ttl=52 time=124 ms
<somerville32> Ack!
<somerville32> 64 bytes from apache2-igloo.gobstopper.dreamhost.com (208.113.154.221): icmp_seq=4 ttl=52 time=124 ms
<somerville32> 64 bytes from apache2-igloo.gobstopper.dreamhost.com (208.113.154.221): icmp_seq=5 ttl=52 time=123 ms
<nixternal> hahahahhahaha
<Adri2000> eh :) he forgot the -c :
<nixternal> you think?
<somerville32> Ack
<nixternal> lol
<somerville32> Sorry 
<imbrandon> whop i guess not, its showing up here but it might take a while for dns to proigate
<fernando> flooder
<ajmitch> so what day do people prefer for this motu meeting?
<imbrandon> ajmitch: mondays / tuesdays or wednessdays are best for me but anyday i can make it
<imbrandon> as far as my 0.2c
* ajmitch would prefer not to have it on wednesday
<ajmitch> but I think more people need to make their preference known
<imbrandon> brb i'ma run to the store
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> mondays are good imho , but more people yea
<imbrandon> back in ~45 min
<cbx33> pete@ubunt:~$ ping www.imbrandom.com
<cbx33> ping: unknown host www.imbrandom.com
<cbx33> whoops
<cbx33> n not m
<cbx33> silly fingers
<imbrandon> yea i have a new post on the blog on the new server so when it shows up on planet
<imbrandon> i'll know dns is propigated :)
<nixternal> you hosting through work now?
<imbrandon> yea i just pointed dns to the new box
<imbrandon> you can get to it via http://198.247.173.230/ but some links still dont work because they are coded to the domain name :(
<imbrandon> but in the next ~12 to ~24 hours it should be seen by the world
<imbrandon> hopefully it dosent spam planet 
<imbrandon> when the feed changes
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> anyhow brb
#ubuntu-motu 2006-12-13
<Burgwork> ajmitch: whiprush is at LUG meeting...
<LaserJock> ?
<Burgwork> stunned, apparently he is "finishing up some stuff"
<LaserJock> some needs to stage an intervention :-)
<sladen> that sounds like the Mafia!
<Burgwork> the first rule of ...
<imbrandon> :)
<ajmitch> Burgwork: burning bridges?
<Burgwork> no idea, as the lug is apparently still holding their meetings at his workplace
<sladen> ./win 183
<imbrandon> he still needs to be on irc / jabber now and then , because he dosent use the software we do dosent make him not a freind imho
<imbrandon> but thats upto him i guess :)
* ajmitch still talks to him
<zul> win 12
<Burgwork> he talks to me on jabber a fair amount
<imbrandon> i guess i just need to add him to my jabber list heh
<Burgwork> geez, you people are terrible typists, zul and sladen
<Burgwork> :)
<imbrandon>  win 32134
<imbrandon> :)
<Burgwork>  win 4493038403484
<ajmitch> ridiculous
<Burgwork> it is 4:30 and I am at work
<LaserJock>  win -30
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon>  win nullity
<LaserJock>  /win > /dev/null
<zul> Burgwork: sorry....dealing with a Kconfig :P
<imbrandon> wow you still use kconfig ?
<Burgwork> ouch
<imbrandon> its a bug if its not in system settings
<imbrandon> :)
<zul> imbrandon: for porting xen yeah i do
<imbrandon> ohhh i was thinking kcontrol /me headdesks
<LaserJock> must be he hasn't had enough Mt. Dew today
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> i'm on pepsi today, out of dew and too lazy to goto the store tonight
<zul> meh...mountain dew is disgusting
<somerville32> That reminds me. I saw a picture of imbrandon with a mountain dew...
<LaserJock> whenever I think of the borg or some bionic machine I always think of it running on Mt. Dew
<imbrandon> probably on my blog ( or the same picture thats on my blog ) of the KDE crew at UDS
<zul> heh thats nothing i seen him with a crack pipe for liking shakira
<imbrandon> LOL
<imbrandon> somerville32: http://www.imbrandon.com/misc/uds_mtv/kubuntu_uds_mtv.jpg
<somerville32> Hmm...
<somerville32> Who is the hot dude with the mountain dew?
* somerville32 wonders.
<Burgwork> 404
<imbrandon> if you are refering to me and hot in the same sentance i hope your of the female gender :)
<imbrandon> Burgwork: really?
<imbrandon> wow
<imbrandon> hold on
<Burgwork> "The requested URL /misc/uds_mtv/kubuntu_uds_mtv.jpg was not found on this server."
<imbrandon> Burgwork: http://mirror.imbrandon.com/misc/uds_mtv/kubuntu_uds_mtv.jpg
<imbrandon> try that one
<Burgwork> that works
<imbrandon> yea, its a dns thing, i'm migrating to a new box, so somethings mught be screwy atm
<imbrandon> mirror.* is the new box
<zul> heh i like the jono pic
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> yea, thats a blackmail pic :)
<imbrandon> for susan
<imbrandon> daniel holbach is in the bg too if you look real close
<imbrandon> zul: ^
* ajmitch looks
<zul> heh i like the foreground better
<imbrandon> :)
<Burgwork> jono just doesn't do it for me, sorry
<imbrandon> hahaha i think he means the legs :)
<imbrandon> i have a few more pictures from UDS, i need to get them all uploaded i guess
<somerville32> imbrandon: Indeed you do.
<imbrandon> heh
<somerville32> imbrandon: Were you able to get the box setup?
<imbrandon> its what i'm waiting on dns for , here lemme get you an account on the old one for the time being
<imbrandon> one sec
<imbrandon> ok setup
<imbrandon> somerville32: see query
<allee> Can anyone check why my digikam_0.9.0~rc2-0ubuntu3 upload (1st after loooog time) does not show up on revu? 
<minghua> allee: are you sure you uploaded to REVU instead of ubuntu official?
<allee> minghua: yeap. 
<minghua> Hmm, I don't know then
<allee> minghua: i'm no motu so how can I upload to ubuntu official
<minghua> you can, it will just be silently dropped
<allee> heh never tried.  sounds like fun ;)
<ash211> if anybody has the time, 2 bugs can be fixed with an easy repackaging
<ash211> bug 2379 and bug 56436
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 2379 in electricsheep "Screensaver uses only 1/4 of display size" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/2379
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 56436 in electricsheep "Doesn't show up in gnome-screensaver list" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/56436
<ash211> edit a .desktop file and change the location of a .desktop file
<ash211> If I knew how to package, I'd do it myself
<engla> ash211: are the bugs assigned to motu?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<ash211> don't think so
<ash211> 2379 is, 56436 isn't
<ash211> electricsheep is in universe
<minghua> what's the point of assigning bugs to MOTU anyway...
<engla> I don't know stuff. But I suppose bugs are only fixed when confirmed and assigned
<ash211> they're both confirmed
<ash211> think I should assign 56436 to MOTU  ?
<LaserJock> are you a part of the no
<LaserJock> sorry
<LaserJock> that should have been just no
<engla> probably not, that package is in main I think?+
<LaserJock> don't assign bugs to people
<ash211> no, electrcsheep is in universe
<LaserJock> only subscribe
<engla> LaserJock: sure about that?
<LaserJock> yes
<engla> ok
<ash211> yes
<ash211> [sry] 
<_MMA_> LaserJock: Got a min? #ubuntustudio
<ash211> both have MOTU subscribed to them
<ash211> I guess I just wanted to get them into the logs so if somebody who can package saw them, they'd get fixed
<somerville32> imbrandon, The server is off :/
<ryanakca> why do I get these errors when pbuilding a package that uses kde.mk in rules: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/36713/
<bddebian> That's an apt issue.  It shouldn't have anything to do with kde.mk
<RAOF> ryanakca: Is it because you haven't updated your pbuilder recently enough, and it's trying to get an outdated version of that package?
<ryanakca> RAOF: I just updated?
<RAOF> ryanakca: So, no :)
<allee> ryanakca: update you pbuild environment.  You package list refers to gettext 0.15.1..  but 0.16... is now in feisty
<ryanakca> allee: reupdating... *twiddles*
<ryanakca> allee: the only thing that isn't updated is this: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/36740/ 
<bluefoxicy> ... o.o
<bluefoxicy> wow, I got e-mail.
* bluefoxicy guesses he should update pax-utils then.
<allee> ryanakca: well, that only lists pkgs that are already installed and out of date.  Important is that the pkg lists are updated, so next pbuild will try to install the lasted version of gettext  in the archive
<ryanakca> ah, kk, thanks :)
<allee> ryanakca: np
<ryanakca> allee: while I'm at it, d'you know of a good example package for learning how to package something that uses cdbs + qmake-qt4?
<allee> ryanakca: no I've not looked at qt4 or kde4 yet.  Maybe you should ask show to find all pkgs depending on qt4 and cdbs? (<- I don't know ;)
<allee> s/depending/build-dep/
<ryanakca> hmm...  apt-cache show <all packages> | grep qt4 | grep cdbs   ... except that would take forever, and I don't know how to show all packages...
<ryanakca> apt-cache show `dpkg -l | awk command to display second collumn and join them` | grep qt4 | grep cdbs
<bddebian> apt-cache rdepends qt4 might do you some good, though a depends doesn't necessarily == a build-depend
<bddebian> You can use grepdctrl too but I can never remember the syntax
<allee> ryanakca, bddebian: use apt-cache showsrc  <- 'we' are interested in build-deps not install depends
<allee> bddebian: yeah, grep-dcrtl is a nightmare ;)
<bluefoxicy> I have a question
<bluefoxicy> I'm syncing with pax-utils-0.1.15 today
<bluefoxicy> it's also in debian, maintained separately, by someone else.
<bluefoxicy> my package uses cdbs; I don't know what theirs uses
<bluefoxicy> do I have to release this as 0.1.15-0ubuntu1 or 0.1.15?
<ryanakca> allee: bddebian: I think I should use: grep-dctrl -i qt4 -a cdbs
<ryanakca> but what would be the filename?
<allee> uhm, anyone can spot the error: I've digikam 0.9.0~rc1-1~ach0dapper2 installed.  I try to install showfoto 0.9.0~rc2-0ubuntu2~ach0edgy1 that has:  Replaces: digikam (<< 0.9.0~rc2~0).   Nevetheless dpkg -i fails because that showfoto has files also in digikam
<ryanakca> what provides x includes? I'm searching threw the output of "apt-cache search x includes"... can't seem to find anything though
<ryanakca> allee: is it because showfoto is trying to replace rc2, but only rc1 is installed?
<allee> ryanakca: << rc2  should be true for rc1 too, right?
<ryanakca> or wait, no, nevermind... no clue, sorry...
<ryanakca> yeah
<ryanakca> I just noticed :)
<allee> nite, it's toooo late already
<ryanakca> nite allee
<bluefoxicy> yawn
* joejaxx does a dance
<joejaxx> Hello everyone
<bddebian> Heya joejaxx
<joejaxx> bddebian: hello
<joejaxx> how are you today?
<bddebian> OK thanks, you?
<joejaxx> i am well
<joejaxx> just looking over some of my projects
<joejaxx> and planning some things
<joejaxx> bddebian: i want to have a etch chroot :P
<bddebian> Joy
* ajmitch looks for something to break
* joejaxx suggests udev
<joejaxx> lol
* joejaxx gives ajmitch a hammer
<jdong> joejaxx: you don't need a hammer to break udev ;-)
<ajmitch> not helpful
<joejaxx> jdong: haha :P
<jdong> how about break azureus
<jdong> OH WAIT IT IS ALREADY BROKEN!
<joejaxx> ajmitch: twofish?
<joejaxx> jdong: haha!
<jdong> and there still isn't a fix in edgy-proposed
* jdong eyes Fujitsu
<jdong> ;-)
<joejaxx> :P
<jdong> I know we all hate java apps...
<jdong> but I spent money on 4GB of RAM and Azureus can't use 3GB to download a 1-minute MP3 if it doesn't run....
<joejaxx> jdong: not i :)
<joejaxx> haha
<Admiral_Chicago> imo, azureus isn't good at all
<Admiral_Chicago> i hate java
<joejaxx> do not*
<joejaxx> :P
<joejaxx> ajmitch: :)
<joejaxx> Admiral_Chicago: you like python?
* ajmitch leaves
<joejaxx> :(
<jdong> sorry, I didn't mean to start a language war
<Admiral_Chicago> joejaxx: i kinda do
<joejaxx> Admiral_Chicago: oh ok
<joejaxx> Admiral_Chicago: i have not coded in python
<joejaxx> Admiral_Chicago: only c++ and java
<Admiral_Chicago> joejaxx: java is slow and security blows
* jdong codes in python, C/C++, and java
<jdong> Admiral_Chicago: java is actually pretty fast once it starts running
<Admiral_Chicago> all my viruses were in windows and 75% written in java
* plugwash preffers real compiled languages without those horrors known of as garbage collectors
<jdong> Admiral_Chicago: it's the initial JIT compile overhead
<Admiral_Chicago> VB.net, java, beginning fortran
<joejaxx> plugwash: c++!
<joejaxx> :D
<plugwash> must get arround to trying C++
<joejaxx> anyone here ever learn pascal?
<lupine_85> yep :)
<joejaxx> lupine_85: :)
<lupine_85> Object Pascal ftw!
<plugwash> yes, the later borland variants are actually pretty nice
<lupine_85> yeah
<joejaxx> :D
<lupine_85> there's a Free compiler for linux
<lupine_85> www.freepascal.org
<joejaxx> nice
<plugwash> iso pascal by all accounts sucks
<Admiral_Chicago> anyone know if Ktorrent uses XHTML or wahtever the engine is for Konquiu
<lupine_85> and lazarus.freepascal.org if you miss delphi/kylix
<jdong> Admiral_Chicago: KHTML
<bddebian> Freepascal is in the archive isn't it?
<jdong> Admiral_Chicago: it embeds a Konqueror
<Admiral_Chicago> jdong: that's what i thought it did
<lupine_85> !info fpc
<plugwash> freepascals source is in the ubuntu archives, but no binaries
<ubotu> Package fpc does not exist in any distro I know
<lupine_85> fpc needs fpc to build, you see... :)
<jdong> Admiral_Chicago: hey, it's an easy way to get a browsing component in a KDE app :D
<plugwash> the buildd's can't build it because it is a self hosting compiler
<lupine_85> since it's written in object pascal
<bddebian> Hmm, I tried to build it once
<jdong> Admiral_Chicago: their tracker communication uses kio/http too
<jdong> Admiral_Chicago: in fact, it's almost completely built on the KDE stack
<Admiral_Chicago> more importantly, i broke my candy cane :\
<lupine_85> couldn't rules download the appropriate static compiler?
<plugwash> lupine_85 technically sure it could, not sure if that would comply with ubuntu policy though
<joejaxx> bddebian: i have officially installed debian :)
<plugwash> you could also include the starting compiler in the source pacakge, again the only issue is policy
<joejaxx> bddebian: well "installed"
<lupine_85> idempotent builds and such? :)
<plugwash> it seems like very few people can upload binaries to ubuntu
<plugwash> freepascal already builds the compiler and main rtl 3 times as part of the standard build process
<plugwash> and if the second and third compiler binaries don't match it is considered a failure
<minghua> plugwash: ask in #ubuntu-devel (or the mailing list), maybe?
<minghua> I don't see how to build a self-hosting compiler without some exception made
<joejaxx> plugwash: just like gcc :)
<lupine_85> and no fpc means no lazarus :(
<lupine_85> that program is seriously cool
<joejaxx> i should learn ada
<lupine_85> still, you can just "alien" the official rpm s and it all "just works"
<plugwash> if you wan't to try then sure go ahead, personally i've tried pushing before and largely failed
<plugwash> the debian deps of freepascal should also install with no problems on ubuntu
<rmjb> Hey guys
<rmjb> and gals
<rmjb> I got a build error email from launchpad about a pacakge I merged
<joejaxx> nice there is an ada compiler
<rmjb> from the log it looked like the build rules tried to remove apt and that cause a problem??
<rmjb> can someone take a look at the log and correct me? it's not long
<ajmitch> rmjb: ignore it, it's not your fault
<plugwash> rmjb are you sure it was the build rules and not the build deps dependency resoloution?
<rmjb> Building dependency tree...
<rmjb> The following packages will be REMOVED:
<rmjb>   apt* build-essential* g++* g++-4.1* libstdc++6* libstdc++6-4.1-dev*
<plugwash> if it was the latter don't worry about it its a known issue with the feisty repositries
<rmjb> I thought those packages would stay once debhelper is in the build deps
<rmjb> but I guess something was going on today?
<plugwash> the version of libstdc++ currently in the feisty repositries is uninstallable and it seems some even more core library is conflicting with older versions of libstdc++
<plugwash> the result is a lot of stuff currently cannot be installed/upgraded without forcing some essential packages to be removed
<plugwash> which apt will not do unless you proceed past a REALLY strong warning
<bluefoxicy> hello?
* bluefoxicy pokes jdong
<rmjb> oh... so some manual tweaking of the build environments is needed in that case?
<ajmitch> rmjb: yes, be patient & it will be fixed
<jdong> bluefoxicy: Segmentation Fault. Signal 11 sent to pid 0: Attempted to raise rlimit_core 4096->0
<jdong> ;-)
<rmjb> no probs... just wanted to know if it was something I had to fix on my end
<bluefoxicy> jdong:  rofl!  Did you ever get over to #pax this weekend?
<rmjb> thanks for the info :)
<bluefoxicy> also I need to know
<plugwash> whats needed is waiting for the packages in question to be fixed, then the buildds should be able to be updated normally
<bluefoxicy> do I need to label my package pax-utils-0.1.15-0ubuntu1 if there's a Debian pax-utils maintained separately?
<rmjb> plugwash: and I guess the buildd admins will re-queue the failed builds
<jdong> bluefoxicy: unfortunately no didn't get the chance
<bluefoxicy> jdong:  nods
<ajmitch> bluefoxicy: if you're adamant on maintaining a separate package, then yes
<ajmitch> so the current feisty version is 0.1.13-0ubuntu1, not hard to change that to 0.1.15-0ubuntu1
<bluefoxicy> ajmitch:  I have the just-released-5-minutes-ago version and don't feed debian because I'm not equipped to send them stuff
<bluefoxicy> but yeah
<bluefoxicy> I'll keep the versioning scheme then.
<ajmitch> I see debian has a dfsg-free version
<ajmitch> I wonder what licensing issues there were
<bluefoxicy> dfsg-free?
<ajmitch>  pax-utils | 0.1.13.dfsg.1-2 | http://apt-proxy sid/main Sources
<ajmitch> the dfsg in the version indicates that the upstream tarball has been modified for licensing reasons
<bluefoxicy> hmm.
<bluefoxicy> oh
<bluefoxicy> shit.
<ajmitch>    * Remove original macho.h with Apple copyright but no license.
<bluefoxicy> ajmitch:  I compared the versions, yes
<bluefoxicy> the macho was removed in 0.1.15
<ajmitch> oh good
<bluefoxicy> I didn't know it was there before and uploaded it to edgy as-is, I should probably fix 0.1.13
<ajmitch> interesting name for a header
<bluefoxicy> not really.
<bluefoxicy> MACH .o
<ajmitch> I know the reason behind it
<ajmitch> still an interesting name
<rmjb> ajmitch: is this a debdiff? it looks off to me: http://librarian.launchpad.net/5186919/debdiff.diff
<bluefoxicy> ajmitch:  this is why I don't maintain any other packages ;)
<ajmitch> rmjb: it is, but a debdiff of 2 binary packages, not source packages
<bluefoxicy> dpkg-buildpackage -s -S -rfakeroot
<bluefoxicy> dammit tilda
* bluefoxicy clicks up on the console
<rmjb> ah, okay I'll submit a correct source debdiff and subscribe universe sponsors
<bluefoxicy> /usr/bin/fakeroot: 152: debian/rules: Permission denied
<bluefoxicy> .......... needs to be executable
<lupine_85> quick question... with version strings like <number>~<string>, if you have two packages where <number> is the same but <string> differs, how does apt-get determine which one to install? 
<bluefoxicy> wtf do I dput again?
<lupine_85> e.g. would 1.0~ann be overwritten by 1.0~bob ?
<plugwash> i think past the tilde normal rules still apply
<plugwash> but i'm not sure
<lupine_85> all the sensible packages I've seen have <number>~<number><string>
<lupine_85> which is sensible :)
<plugwash> imo the best docs for this kind of thing is probablly the source
<bluefoxicy> ajmitch:  that's freaking weird.
<bluefoxicy> I deleted macho.h and deleted #include <macho.h> from paxinc.h
<bluefoxicy> then built a source package to look for what to fix
<bluefoxicy> ....... it worked.  Binaries work.
<bluefoxicy> wtf?
<bluefoxicy> you can't just rip out headers and expect the program not to puke
<plugwash> probablly only used on some platforms
<plugwash> or no longer used but not actually ripped out
<lupine_85> eh, I'll build and try to install and see what happens :)
<bluefoxicy> well.  Uploading.  *shrug*
<rmjb> Sp4rKy: are you here?
<RAOF> lupine_85: You can use "dpkg --compare-versions" to check :)
<RAOF> dpkg --compare-versions 1.0~ann lt 1.0~bob && echo "true"
<RAOF> Returns true, so it seems lexographical is the way it works
<lupine_85> cool :)
<lupine_85> every time I think linux is missing something, it's really just that I don't know how to use my tools... :D
<RAOF> Pretty much, yeah :)
<jdong> RAOF: it is lexographical
<rmjb> well that's for me for tonight
<rmjb> see y'all
<Laser_away> I don't suppose it would be considered a bad form to file a bug for something I want to fix in a SRU
<Hobbsee> Laser_away: not if it needs fixing
<Hobbsee> crimsun_: ping?
<imbrandon> Laser_away: i would think it would be ok ( unless its just a wishlist feature or something )
<imbrandon> but if its truely a bug
<imbrandon> :)
<Hobbsee> crimsun_: i've changed the mailing address to u-u-s, and fought LP.  i think you'd be able to subscribe to all bugs if you want.  or i could point the buglist at your email.  However, lots of fighting LP is involved in doing that.
<Laser_away> imbrandon: it is, it's in Main but it's missing deps that supposedly make the package broken
<imbrandon> ahh , yea
<Laser_away> part of the problem I'm already doing an SRU for
<brainsik> Laser_away: sounds good to me :-)
<Laser_away> but I noticed that there was also another Debian bug that was easy to fix
<Laser_away> brainsik: wahoo! just the man I was looking for
<LaserJock> brainsik: I'm working on python-imaging
<LaserJock> but I can't figure out how to reproduce it
<brainsik> LaserJock: cool
<brainsik> LaserJock: what do you mean?
<LaserJock> well, I tried import sane and that loaded fine
<LaserJock> I need to know how to break it :-)
<brainsik> LaserJock: okay, the way it happened for me was that libjpeg62 wasn't installed
<brainsik> if you are on a graphical system, that's pretty much not an option
<brainsik> but i'm doing this on a barebone web server
<LaserJock> brainsik: well what I need is a "this is how you break it" to show both that it's broken and that I can fix it
<brainsik> 1) dpkg -r libjpeg62
<jikanter> I am trying to verify my key for launchpad, and mutt seems to be unable to find my data.  Does anyone think they could send me their .muttrc?
<brainsik> 2) load up python, then try and import the module
<brainsik> LaserJock: let me get you a more concrete example
<LaserJock> brainsik: ok, well I'm not sure how critical this is then because there are lots of apps that bring in libjpeg62
<brainsik> LaserJock: well it broke my web app server
<LaserJock> true, that's not nice
<LaserJock> but for non-server installs it should be fine
<LaserJock> I can run it by mdz and see if he thinks it's worthy of an SRU
<LaserJock> same for psycopg
<LaserJock> brainsik: ok, I'm off for tonight, I'll see what I can do tomorrow
<brainsik> LaserJock: okay, i am generating an example, where should I send it
<LaserJock> attach it to the bug report
<brainsik> okay
<brainsik> goodnight
<LaserJock> also please explain that it affects server installs and broke you're webapp
<LaserJock> I just need to "sell" it to the higher ups ;-)
<jikanter> why would interdiff fail between two archives?
<Fujitsu> m/win 5
<lastnode> Burgundavia, ping
<Burgundavia> lastnode: pong
<lastnode> Burgundavia, pm?
<Burgundavia> shoot
* proppy hugs dholbach
<imbrandon> mmm sleep
<imbrandon> gnight all
<dholbach> good morning
* somerville32 gives dholbach a big good morning bug.
<somerville32> ...
<somerville32> *hug
<dholbach> ahhhh... better :-)
* dholbach hugs somerville32 back
<dholbach> how's it going?
<somerville32> Pretty good. Just pulling another all nighter.
* somerville32 pants.
* proppy hugs dholbach
<dholbach> hey proppy
<proppy> hoy dholbach
* dholbach hugs proppy back
<proppy> receiving my macbook today
<proppy> can't wait longer !
<dholbach> hehe
<elkbuntu> i want a mac... unfortunately i have neither the monies or the space
<Lathiat> proppy: i hate waiting for thigns like that ;)
<proppy> Lathiat: yep, waiting since 06/12
<proppy> Lathiat: and according to the tracking page
<proppy> Lathiat: 'Estimated Delivery Date	12 Dec 2006 (Subject to change)'
<proppy> Lathiat: yesterday :(
<Lathiat> heh
<proppy> and i'm pretty sure yesterday it was ETA:  15/12
<allee_> Can anyone check why my digikam_0.9.0~rc2-0ubuntu3 revu upload (1st after loooog time) does not show up on revu (after 8 hours)? 
<Sp4rKy> hi there
<stefg> Hi, anyone has info if there are backports of openoffice.org 2.1 and vlc 0.8.6 to dapper available somewhere? 
<\sh> moins
<\sh> guys, ubuntu-universe-sponsors team...I just got an mail from approved to deactivated
<\sh> I didn't know that I was member of this team
<azeem> I think every motu got put on that team when it was created
<Fujitsu> ubuntu-dev got added a couple of days back, AFAIK.
<proppy>  feisty sparc   Successfully built \o/ yeepee
<Fujitsu> Indeed:
<Fujitsu> Ubuntu Development Team   2006-12-12  Deactivated
<dholbach> ubuntu-dev was a member
<dholbach> it was fixed, so not everybody gets a mail about every universe sponsor request
<StevenK> Yay, gcc-4.1 was fixed.
<StevenK> That looked like fun. Chroot problem -> Failed to build (due to an apt problem) -> Sucessfully built
<StevenK> Hrm. 
<StevenK> Yay, gnome-session is hanging on poll().
* Fujitsu debugs StevenK.
* StevenK ponders rebooting.
<StevenK> And yet, it still poll()'s. 
<\sh> hmm...why is wine mentoined in the ubuntu weekly news...*mewonders*
<Admiral_Chicago> i suppose some people find wine to be critical to their system running
<\sh> well, 0.9.27 is on it's way ;)
<Admiral_Chicago> i saw the UWN, i even did some feedback on it to -marketing
<\sh> I don't read -marketing...do you have a web pointer to it?
<sistpoty|uni> hi folks
<Admiral_Chicago> \sh: it was in #ubuntu-marketing, just to clarify the point
<Admiral_Chicago> err a point about the Kurdish LoCo
<geser> doko: I overlooked your sync request for wireshark and did a merge. should i close the sync request?
<Zic_> hi here, hi sistpoty|uni, I have uploaded the new menareants with your indications, except for the menareants-data, beacause the binary is very small ... It's wright, or a menareants-data is best ?
<Zic_> I'm trying to pbuild my package in feisty (my last bug with feisty was fixed :))
<sistpoty|uni> Zic_: sorry cannot check atm, I am at university right now
<sistpoty|uni> Zic_: you should make a data package nonetheless, as it reduces space usage on the mirrors:
<sistpoty|uni> Zic_: the difference is, that an arch:all package will need to be stored only once, where as an arch:any package needs to be stored for every architecture the package is being built on
<Zic_> sistpoty|uni: ok, sorry :) I make the menareants-data so :)
<sistpoty|uni> :)
<Zic_> hmm, I don't know it, I understand now :)
<Zic_> siretart: last, I don't see the difference between the arch:all and arch:any, thanks :)
<Zic_> and good work to your university :>
<sistpoty|uni> Zic_: thanks to you
<sistpoty|uni> Zic_: btw.: is menarents only french? I wanted to test it yesterday, but I don't speak any french and was totally lost g
<Zic_> hmm, MenAreAnts is only french for the moment I think :( But the programmer can translate it for a multi-language I think, beacause he maintains many multi-lang project :)
<Zic_> For the button, it's simple, but I understand you for the next part of game :>
<sistpoty|uni> exactly :)... a translation would really be uber-cool :)
<Zic_> I'm french, so their is no problem huhu :) I have told the programmer for the translation :>
<sistpoty|uni> cool... /me looks forward to play games... erm test packages for ubuntu of course g
<Zic_> :)
<Zic_> You cand find a manual here http://coderz.info/wiki/index.php?title=Men_Are_Ants:Manuel, but it's in french, You can translate it :) But it's know, automatic translation is very poor :>
<Zic_> Screenshots are avaible too :)
<pirast> hi, could anyone apply the debdiff in bug 75520 to the archive? thanks
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 75520 in klogic "KLogic does not create a menu entry" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/75520
<crimsun_> bug 75520
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 75520 in klogic "KLogic does not create a menu entry" [Wishlist,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/75520
<pirast> crimsun_, thx
<msk> ping
<sistpoty|uni> msk: Usage: ping <nick> <reason> :P
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sistpoty|uni> hi bddebian 
<bddebian> Hi sistpoty|uni
<Chandu> hi 
<Chandu> which package is responsible for automatic  software upgrades in ubuntu
<sistpoty|uni> Chandu: iirc it's update-manager
<Chandu> sistpoty|uni, iirc is the package name 
<sistpoty|uni> Chandu: no, iirc=if I remember correctly... the package name should be update-manger
<Chandu> sistpoty|uni, ok ..fine ..thank you
<sistpoty|uni> np
<\sh> hmmm...I need to train some time for lpic-1 and eventually for lpic-2
<sistpoty|uni> hey \sh, how are you doing?
<\sh> fine :) and busy :)
<allee> \sh: aah, that's why you answered yet ;)
<allee> + have not
<\sh> allee: I have to change something on the fai 3.1 packages...the fai chroot kernels are not backported for dapper...and I need to change it to the real fai kernels in dapper
<allee> \sh: okay.  I'll ping you in case I find time tonight or tomorrow to try backporting for fai-kernel
<\sh> allee: no kernel backporting...we need to change the kernel name in the fai 3.1 packages for dapper... and I surely want it in a "canonical" way...because many people are using self made install kernels
<\sh> install kernels as in "fai chroot kernels"
<allee> \sh: sorry I mean  not backporting the kernel but fai-kernel, i.e. trying fai-kernel config with whatever in in dapper security repo  (at least that was what I did with merging 2.10.5 to dapper)
<allee> \sh so you have fai-kernel pkgs?  Only fai  control and simple config needs to be adapted?
<\sh> allee: nope...I'm using a self made kernel...just because of some drivers we need for our raid controllers
<chillywilly> why isn't there a better squid packages in edgy?
<chillywilly> packaged*
<chillywilly> squid3 is in debian
<zul> interesting mysql has dropped support for debian
<Czessi> Hi, any MOTU has time to review a package?
<Adri2000> Czessi: it's a new package$?
<Adri2000> -$
<chillywilly> anyone have an idea why squid qould stop logging afte upgrading to edgy?
<chillywilly> would*
<Czessi> Adri2000: New for universe, in revu it has some reviews
<Czessi> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3760
<Adri2000> Czessi: your package seems fine but I can't do anything, I'm not a motu :)
<Czessi> Adri2000: Thanks, I'll try it later
<lfittl> anybody willing to review raopplay (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3764)?
<dothebart> hy.
<dothebart> afaik ubuntu flushes /var/run on reboot, right?
<lfittl> yep
<dothebart> how is one supposed to have subdirs? with init scripts?
<lfittl> you mean subdirs in /var/run? they would be created by the init scripts, yes
<geser> yes, init scripts should recreate dirs in /var/{lock,run}/
<dothebart> tnx.
<palski> There are three +1 for sru #73780, what happens next? It is assigned to me, but I'm not able to upload or anything
<LaserJock> palski: did you have a MOTU sponsor the SRU?
<palski> No, actually I'm not sure what do you mean by that but I guess, no
<LaserJock> I thought a MOTU was supposed to sponor an sru from a non-MOTU
<palski> hmmm, three motus have acked the SRU
<LaserJock> well, I think you need 2 acks from the SRU team
<LaserJock> let me go check
<sistpoty|uni> LaserJock: you need 3 acks from sru, and these are present.
<sistpoty|uni> palski: you should get the package uploaded to -proposed and subscribe ubuntu-archive then (to let the package in)
<LaserJock> sistpoty|uni: right, but palski can't upload
<palski> only motus are able to do that?
<sistpoty|uni> palski: yep
<LaserJock> sistpoty|uni: I'm a little concerned because the current SRU is not really what we agreed upon
<sistpoty|uni> LaserJock: in what way?
<LaserJock> sistpoty|uni: we said that it was uploaded to -proposed first, then acked by motu-sru
<LaserJock> and we said that a MOTU had to ack non-MOTU sru requests
<LaserJock> because they have to upload for them anyway
<sistpoty|uni> LaserJock: a motu still needs to do the uploading and thus give an ack
<LaserJock> sistpoty|uni: but that's a bit silly to me if it's already gotten 3 acks from motu-sru
<LaserJock> either the last ack from motu-sru should upload
<LaserJock> or the MOTU ack should come before motu-sru to weed out "bad" ones
<sistpoty|uni> LaserJock: that would of course be preferable
<sistpoty|uni> LaserJock: we (motu-sru) usually don't testbuild packages, but rather look at the diffs
<sistpoty|uni> LaserJock: so it should be the duty of every sponsor to see if the package he/she uploads is in buildable state (and if it works as promised)
<sistpoty|uni> LaserJock: that's then an implied ack ;)
<LaserJock> sistpoty|uni: then I think that should come before the motu-sru team
<sistpoty|uni> LaserJock: and for the time, when motu-sru gives the ack, we agreed upon before the upload to -proposed (in private discussion between sru-team), since that's the logical place to sort out errors
<LaserJock> but that wasn't what was discussed before
<LaserJock> so I'm a little confused about how the SRU process was developed
<LaserJock> anyway, it's up to you guys I guess, but you might want to sort of clear up what happens for non-MOTUs
<sistpoty|uni> LaserJock: I guess there was some confusion caused due to the fact that we had proposals, one being https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU
<sistpoty|uni> (which I favored(
<LaserJock> i.e. I would assume most MOTUs would think that if the sru team had approved it then it was ready to just upload
<sistpoty|uni> LaserJock: eeks, that impression really shouldn't happen
<ajmitch> morning 
<sistpoty|uni> hi ajmitch
<LaserJock> sistpoty|uni: yeah, that's an issue imbrandon, ajmitch, Fujitsu, lifeless, and I spent at least an hour hammering out a process
<LaserJock> and then it just got dropped or something
<sistpoty|uni> LaserJock: I thought actually it was the one at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU, wasn't it?
<ajmitch> well, the process was hammered out & then went to the list for further tuning
<LaserJock> sistpoty|uni: yes, look at the Comments section
<ajmitch> did the SRU page not get cleaned up for the final process?
* imbrandon looks up
<LaserJock> I don't know
<imbrandon> moins all
<LaserJock> but it it's sort of an inbetween
<sistpoty|uni> hi imbrandon 
<imbrandon> heya sistpoty|uni 
<LaserJock> the main part of MOTU/SRU says nothing for non-MOTUs
<ajmitch> my fault :)
<LaserJock> it just says "Once you have uploaded the package, subscribe the ubuntu-archive team ..."
<sistpoty|uni> LaserJock, ajmitch actually I only saw the why/when/how section was already in place (but still a proposal)... 
<sistpoty|uni> LaserJock, ajmitch: I personally added only some cosmetics (e.g. need 3 acks)
<imbrandon> still a proposal? i thought dholbach put some holy penguin pee on it ? man this is silly how nothing seems to ever be "finished" after weeks of talking and such
<ajmitch> imbrandon: it was agreed on
<LaserJock> well, I'm not really complaining (I think MOTU-ack before SRU will give SRU better diffs to look at, but that's up to them) but I still think we need to explicetly address non-MOTUs
<dholbach> imbrandon: where did you get the idea I had anything holy on me?
<imbrandon> hehe
<sistpoty|uni> imbrandon: no. actually I put my holy pee on it :P... it was still listed as "a proposal" when I first saw it
<sistpoty|uni> LaserJock: do you think we'd need to make the non-motu part more clear?
<LaserJock> yes I do
<imbrandon> i'm not really complaining either but we realy need to get that council going so we can at VERY LEASTE get some clear guidelines on things
* imbrandon stops whinging now
<imbrandon> :)
<sistpoty|uni> LaserJock: I don't object. could you add it kindbeg
<LaserJock> yep
<imbrandon> woot looks link dns propigated , i can put those scripts on crons now
<ajmitch> strange, linode don't setup ubuntu with an admin group, or a 2.6 kernel
<sistpoty|uni> well, sorry if I stepped on someones foot with the sru-thingy... I guess I wrote 3 or 4 times to the ml asking about that very process until I considered that I should create facts
<sistpoty|uni> LaserJock: thanks
* ajmitch just had to get some hosting ASAP for a project
<imbrandon> ajmitch: what was that other script you asked about too in the comments, was it in irc or on the comments of my blog
<ajmitch> imbrandon: no idea
<ajmitch> it was more than 10 minutes ago, so I've forgotten
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> still need some hosting ?
<ajmitch> well it's for some zope/plone projects
<LaserJock> sistpoty|uni: nah, not toes stepped on, we just had too many proposals flying about
<ajmitch> current provider is shutting down any day now, friend in melbourne registered a linode setup
<imbrandon> ajmitch: ahh ok well if there is anything i can do lemme know
<imbrandon> i probable could add the libs etc to the ubuntu box
<imbrandon> if needed
<imbrandon> sistpoty|uni: hehe yea what LaserJock said, no toes broken, i was / am just suprised it hasent been "finished" as of yet i guess :)
<LaserJock> sistpoty|uni: and you made the change suggested by sfflaw?
* imbrandon is happy someone is doing something withis 
<ajmitch> imbrandon: yeah, it's just for a project I'm a part of, not just a personal project :)
<sistpoty|uni> LaserJock: the tag, yes
<LaserJock> I'm going to clear out the Comments section then
<LaserJock> they always make a policy look half-baked :-)
<imbrandon> :)
<sistpoty|uni> LaserJock: great, thx :)
<imbrandon> ugh the feed changed urls when i moved server
<imbrandon> hrm
<imbrandon> wonder why
<sistpoty|uni> oh, so late already... damn I'm missing stargate atlantis :(
* sistpoty|uni heads home
<sistpoty|uni> cya later
* ajmitch had better get to work or something
<zul>  hey ajmitch 
<LaserJock> imbrandon, ajmitch : check out 3. on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU
<LaserJock> ajmitch: does it make sense for a non-DD to do a NMU? I guess it might
<imbrandon> LaserJock: #3 looks ok
<imbrandon> to me
<imbrandon> and yea me as a non-DD have done nmu's
<imbrandon> :)
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> somebody filed a NMU bug in a package I maintain in Debian
<LaserJock> kinda odd, but whatever
<imbrandon> i would personaly stop uploading if the process became as hard as debian
<imbrandon> imho
<LaserJock> well, I just thought it was odd
<LaserJock> I took over the ITP after the guy tried for a year to get it in
<imbrandon> brb gonna grab some food and shower , back in ~45 minutes
<imbrandon> hehe yea
<LaserJock> and then as soon as a new upstream version comes out files a NMU bug
<imbrandon> i took over an itp like that
<imbrandon> infact i need to check on that
<ajmitch> LaserJock: he did an NMU for a new upstream version?
<LaserJock> well, he didn't actually do it as he's not a DD
<LaserJock> but he filed an NMU bug
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> I've just been waiting until after etch is released
<imbrandon> 2009?
<imbrandon> lol j/k
<allee> NMU for non-DD is okay, but a new version is a wishlist (of course a wishlist can contain a patch ;)
<LaserJock> imbrandon: "when it's ready"
<zul> yeah 2010 a debian odeyse
<LaserJock> stink, he changed a bunch of my packaging too
<LaserJock> and added in 4 new patches
<imbrandon> wow thats not a nmu thats a hijack
<LaserJock> seems so
<ajmitch> LaserJock: if you need something sponsored...
<LaserJock> debian bug #402893
<Ubug2> Debian bug 402893 in gausssum "gausssum: NMU (2.0.1-0.1)" [Normal,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/402893
<ajmitch> you can just get a new version uploaded
<LaserJock> ajmitch: no, azeem is my sponsor, I was just waiting until the general "slush" was over in Debian before I did a new upstream release
<azeem> oh, Li Daobing
<azeem> he's been interested in that chemistry stuff for years
<LaserJock> yeah, he sent me and upstream his "NMU" then filed a bug
<ajmitch> hi azeem 
<azeem> LaserJock: I think the most productive thing would be to add him to debichem group-maint post-etch
<azeem> hi Andrew!
<azeem> LaserJock: who signed the upload?
<LaserJock> it's not uploaded
<LaserJock> he just filed a bug
<azeem> ah, misunderstood
<LaserJock> yeah, it was a bit confusing to me too
<azeem> oh, he works for Google now
<LaserJock> he didn't file it as a normal wishlist "New upstream release" bug
<azeem> or what is pkg-newedit.googlecode.com
<LaserJock> azeem: you think, I just wondered if he was using them for a svn repo
<azeem> LaserJock: or maybe that, I dunno
<azeem> LaserJock: well, I'd respond saying that etch is frozen and that we should all collaborate on this and the other chemistry stuff post-etch, dunno
<jdong> speaking of where is that edgy-proposed Azureus upload....
<jdong> while true; do ping Fujitsu "Please upload Azureus to edgy-proposed"; sleep 5; done
<LaserJock> azeem: is bodr still not in Debian?
<azeem> ugh
<azeem> maybe not :-/
<LaserJock> I just wondered
<azeem> I didn't see the NEW purge coming in November, or else I would've worked harder on some more NEW packages
<azeem> gotta run, laters
<LaserJock> hmm, is alioth down?
<poningru> anyone know whats going on with the xgl stuff
<jdong> poningru: investigating at the moment
<jdong> some sort of nvidia-glx breakage happened with the recent kernel update
<jdong> still trying to figure out if it's a ubuntu problem
<jdong> or a user problem
<poningru> hmm
<jdong> but even people installing nvidia drivers by binaries and disabling nvidia-glx + lrm nvidia.ko are bitten
<jdong> and that's how I would expect to do a safe binary nvidia install
<jdong> I'm currently talking to three people experiencing the issue trying to figure out what's wrong
<jdong> so far it seems like the kernel module actually loads
<zorglu_> just to undertstand "waht is going on with xgl ?" = "currently broken" ?
<zorglu_> i ask because i got many people having 'weird trouble' with opengl on helping channels
<jdong> zorglu_: it appears like today's kernel update caused nvidia 3d drivers to fail for many
<jdong> poningru: are you experiencing this?
<jdong> I need people to provide me with some debugging info
<jdong> how is their nvidia driver installed
<jdong> what version
<jdong> what error(s)
<zorglu_> jdong: what should i tell them ? wait a bit and update later ? any known work around ?
<LaserJock> is this in Edgy?
<jdong> LaserJock: yes
<jdong> zorglu_: where are people having this problem
<jdong> zorglu_: can you put me in contact with a few?
<jdong> zorglu_: as of now I still can't identify why people are experiencing this
<zorglu_> jdong: just now, i got one guy on #kubuntu scipper, having trouble, not sure it is related, he is having ati
<zorglu_> jdong: i got 2 others before
<jdong> ATI having trouble?
<jdong> hold on, let me reboot
<zorglu_> jdong: the guy has trouble, not sure it is related. it may be a beginner trying to install for the first time
<zorglu_> after investigation, the ati trouble was just a first timer. if i got one with nvidia issue from today, i will link you, jdong
<dholbach> night fellas
<ajmitch> night daniel
<jdong> can't reproduce fglrx having issues
<jdong> xgl+beryl still functional
<dholbach> night andrew
<jdong> what channel was the guy having trouble in?
<zorglu_> it is on #kubuntu, but it was a first timer
<zorglu_> after investigation, the ati trouble was just a first timer. if i got one with nvidia issue from today, i will link you, jdong <- seen this one ?
<jdong> ok
<jdong> thanks man
<zorglu_> np
* ajmitch thinks that the MOTU meeting will fall to next wednesday by default
<ajmitch> since by the time people finish discussing it, friday will be gone :)
<phanatic> good evening
<ajmitch> hi
<phanatic> hey ajmitch 
<LaserJock> ajmitch: that is one way of settling it
<ajmitch> LaserJock: then I'll probably end up missing it
<LaserJock> I was going to say maybe we need to just do it twice
<zorglu_> jdong: i got yuma on #kubuntu which had a working 915gm working yesterday, failling today, but he say he has not updated in between
* Fujitsu will be missing it too, if it's on Wednesday.
<jdong> zorglu_:  915gm failing?
<jdong> that's really strange
<jdong> what kind of errros
<zorglu_> jdong: yep, unsure it is related, but the 'was working yesterday, failed today' seems close
<jdong> hmm
<zorglu_> dunno the error it said 'it was broken for good' :)
<brainsik> Would it be considered a bug if a package required removing ubuntu-minimal due to conflicting with one of ubuntu-minimal's dependencies?
<imbrandon> ajmitch: my thoughts exactly
<LaserJock> brainsik: I wouldn't think so if it was an accurate confilct
<brainsik> LaserJock: hmm. okay. it seems like you should never cause ubuntu-minimal to be removed since it's considered a requirement for upgrading between releases.
<LaserJock> yep, but that's what happens when you have confilcts
<imbrandon> brainsik: so is *-desktop 
<imbrandon> but thats dosent change it if its a legit conflict
<brainsik> imbrandon: i assume that's not true for servers
<imbrandon> the only tiome that becomes a problem is if you want it in a default install
<brainsik> okay, i'm just wary of giving the user ways to break their upgrade paths.
<imbrandon> brainsik: true, but you dident say servers, if you are going by whats required by an upgrade success *-desktop is :)
<imbrandon> brainsik: lets take away dpkg then :) ( just teasin )
<LaserJock> brainsik: btw, got ok on moving forward on SRUs
<imbrandon> i see your point, and probably should be looked at to see if it can be done a diffrent way, but as far as a "bug" i dont think it qualifies
<brainsik> imbrandon: i meant, specifically by installing a package
<brainsik> LaserJock: yay!
<imbrandon> :)
<LaserJock> perhaps tasks can handle that sort of situation better
<LaserJock> but with metapackages a dep is a dep and a conflict is a conflict
<brainsik> imbrandon: part of this questioning is that i used debian from slink - sarge without ever having a problem upgrading between releases. but the dapper -> edgy upgrade was a nightmare for many.
<LaserJock> if you want to install a conflicing package you have to get rid of the other and all the packages that dep on it
<imbrandon> brainsik: sure, but given all the alternatives for default programs out there that can remove a metapackage it would be insane to call that a bug
<imbrandon> i see ytour point and agree somewhat but i still dont think its a "bug"
<LaserJock> it's not a "bug" it's a "feature" :-)
<imbrandon> lol
<brainsik> imbrandon: hmm. i see your point as well. but ubuntu-minimal is not just any package.
<LaserJock> well, the idea behind them is to have a standard set of packages
<brainsik> why is there a need for ubuntu-minimal? there isn't a debian-minimal.
<imbrandon> i mean removeing oo.o and putting koffice in its place breaks upgrades from dapper->edgy but still not a bug, just means we need to work on the upgrade process not "fix" koffice :)
<LaserJock> if you install a conflicting package you are breaking the standard set of packages
<LaserJock> this is one area where Ubuntu and Debian differ
<imbrandon> right, there isnt a "standard set of supported packages" in debian past debootstrap, in ubuntu there is
<imbrandon> and ubuntu-* meta packages define the levels of those
<imbrandon> be it minimal , desktop , whatever
<LaserJock> one of Ubuntu's strategies is to focus on a set of apps rather then the whole lot, that's why we have Main and Universe
<brainsik> interesting. it seems, as it is, that structure makes things more brittle.
<LaserJock> it can at times
<imbrandon> brainsik: it can be, but makes the things that are supported more solid imho
<brainsik> imbrandon: i see that too.
<imbrandon> also if this package was in main it would be a bug
<imbrandon> but being in an unsupported not on by default repo
<imbrandon> its diffrent
<brainsik> interesting. thanks for your comments, i'm still trying to get a hang of how debian and ubuntu are different and how to manage my expectations since i'm coming from debian.
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> brainsik: dont worry i came from suse ( long before this novel vs ms feasico ) and had TONS of questions not even knowing debian at first :)
* ajmitch came all the way over from debian
<gnomefreak> is there an easy way to apply a patch without having to rebuild package?
<brainsik> imbrandon: :) in some ways it may be easier to do the bigger jump. then you don't keep thinking you know how it all works already. :)
<jdong> gnomefreak: ha! openoffice devs would pay millions for that!
<gnomefreak> lol
<gnomefreak> so the patches devs leave on bugs are for record only before they apply it?
<jdong> right
<Fujitsu> Or for people to apply before they're uploaded.
<jdong> the patches are for us  to apply and test
<gnomefreak> ah ok
<Fujitsu> Which is generally a good thing, because there was a > two month gap between me isolating the patch for #43150 and it being uploaded to dapper-updates.
<imbrandon> well brainsik i might be out of line saying this a tad, but coming from the "outside" i only see the similarities in debian/ubuntu on a purely tecnical package level, everything else especialy processes are very diffrent
<imbrandon> imho
<brainsik> imbrandon: thanks, i'll definitely keep that in mind. for sure, the community process is quite different.
* Fujitsu doesn't like what seb128 is saying in #-devel.
* imbrandon looks
<Fujitsu> I am revolted.
<jdong> Fujitsu: speaking of azureus to edgy-proposed?
<jdong> ;-)
<Fujitsu> Hahah, yes, I should probably do that.
<jdong> thanks man
<Fujitsu> Had work and other stuff lately, unfortunately.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: i must be missing something
<imbrandon> i dont see anything "bad" he is saying
<Fujitsu> The whole Beryl-by-default still being alive.
<Fujitsu> That is saddening.
<jdong> imbrandon: he's saying that beryl will be default
<jdong> apparently some people are really averse to that
<crimsun_> If it must be, then please, compiz really. For the love of small ponies. Really.
<imbrandon> i doubt beryl will make default from what i've seen , if ANYTHING it will be compiz at this point 
<Fujitsu> I agree with crimsun_.
<Fujitsu> Although I'd prefer it to all be optional, default off.
<imbrandon> crimsun_: right right, do it for the ponies
<LaserJock> as long as I can easily turn it off and we don't get flooded with bug reports (yeah, right) I'm ok with it I think
<crimsun_> embrace the imminent bug flood.
* Fujitsu isn't encouraged by the number of beryl bugs he's seen of late, like beryl-settings spontaneously segfaulting on startup... Sounds stable.
<crimsun_> compiz is, barring the issues that corey has raised, surprisingly "usable."
<jdong> well, spontaneous segfaults on exit was the theme for edgy, why not startup for feisty?
<jdong> ;-)
<imbrandon> well i really dont know what the fuss is , beryl cant even make it into the repos atm :)
* imbrandon ducks
<LaserJock> but compiz is in
<imbrandon> yes
<Fujitsu> er? I saw beryl-settings there yesterday.
<jdong> is there a freenode /dev/null equivalent?
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: unless someone packaged 0.1.3 other than me and uploaded ( very possible )
<jdong> I need to vent some words about the nvidia fiasco today
<Fujitsu> Which NVIDIA fiasco?
<LaserJock> is it really broken by our updates?
<jdong> Fujitsu: lots of 9xxx nvidia users are complaining that today's kernel update broke X
<Fujitsu> Ooh, fun.
<imbrandon> btw since i havent had time to post it on the fridge yet, some of you might wanna read http://behindubuntu.org/interviews/BenCollins/
<jdong> LaserJock: it's not broken by a 100% pure official nvidia setup
<ryanakca> I take it that this is because of messed up source code? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/36888/
<jdong> but it seems like all non-official methods of 9640
<jdong> 9631* rather
<jdong> are messed
<jdong> i.e. compile 9631 on old linux-image
<jdong> update
<jdong> borked
<crimsun_> jdong: fixed by recompiling upstream by hand?
<ryanakca> jdong: ouch
<jdong> crimsun_: oui
<jdong> crimsun_: one person fixed it simply by a depmod -ae
<jdong> crimsun_: he was an anomaly though; 
<jdong> (modprobe was looking in blacklisted volatile/ for a nonexistent nvidia.ko)
<crimsun_> if it was fixed by recompiling, it's possible there's a missing ABI bump.
<jdong> crimsun_: that's what I was suspecting
<jdong> but I haven't been able to find enough people to confirm
<jdong> it seems to mostly happen with 9631
<jdong> 9640 emerges unscathed
<crimsun_> oh, so 9640 is fine regardless?
<jdong> crimsun_: one user tells me that
<jdong> right now there doesn't seem to be enough info / problem reports to figure out exactly what are the circumstances of the breakage
<imbrandon> ssh brandon@tiber
<imbrandon> grr
<jdong> it doesn't seem to be as widespread a breakage as our dapper fun :)
<LaserJock> password:
<imbrandon> lol ssh FTW
<imbrandon> ssh key
<imbrandon> too
<LaserJock> darn
<jdong> lol
* LaserJock little "act like a password prompt" ploy didn't work :/
<jdong> LaserJock: don't joke about that. I've been scammed by a phony getty login prompt before
<imbrandon> heh dont wory i'm getting on there to steal your mdt scripts
<jdong> hence where the heck is our SaK
<imbrandon> LaserJock: ^^
<LaserJock> fine, be that way
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> i just cant rember what ones i had to grab before
<imbrandon> lol
<LaserJock> stealing all my goodies, just don't drop any crumbs on the way out
<ajmitch> hello crimsun_ 
* Fujitsu steals some of his goodies back from LaserJock, leaving a mess on the way out.
<crimsun_> 'lo ajmitch 
<imbrandon> LaserJock: it was the stuff in your ~/motuscience right >
<imbrandon> ?
<LaserJock> yeah, that's my cron-o-matic stuff
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> i'm trying to set it back up on voyager
* imbrandon tar's the dir up and steals it
* LaserJock moves it from under imbrandon's tar
* Fujitsu tars up LaserJock, and locks him away in his own ~/motuscience.
<LaserJock> :(
* LaserJock creates a python house
<gnomefreak> imbrandon: do you happen to have beryl for feisty repo?
<LaserJock> and a shell-script pond
<LaserJock> and takes a nap
* Fujitsu screams at the sight of gnomefreak's line.
<gnomefreak> lol FunnyLookinHat 
<gnomefreak> Fujitsu: even
<imbrandon> gnomefreak: nope
<sistpoty> re... damn, no sg antlantis today... not my day so far *g*
* Fujitsu Rubys up a nice lion, and throws it in.
<gnomefreak> ok ty imbrandon 
<LaserJock> sistpoty: bummer dude
<sistpoty> *g*
* LaserJock create's his C++ laser and blows away the lion
<FunnyLookinHat> ?
<Fujitsu> Damnit.
<FunnyLookinHat> i always get random pings
<crimsun_> sistpoty: but you heard that Jewel Staite (Kaylee in Firefly/Serenity) is joining SGA in season 4, no? :)
<imbrandon> crimsun_: yea i seen that somewhere
<imbrandon> so is some of the sg-1 cast
<imbrandon> ( amanda tapping iirc )
* Fujitsu does the unthinkable, and sticks LaserJock into a RPM.
<sistpoty> crimsun_: no, not yet... (and I really wonder when season 4 might get broadcast in germany, we're still at the beginning of season 2)
* imbrandon is still waiting on the end of season 10/3
* LaserJock commits suicide with a rm -rf *
<imbrandon> of sg-1 and sga
<jdong> ok, it rings slightly suspicious that no experienced linux users can report or reproduce kernel module breakage so far
<jdong> and the beginners I've talked too all have configurations that would give me a heart attack looking at
* imbrandon puts on some KISS and starts merges and shell scripts
<Fujitsu> jdong: eg?
<crimsun_> jdong: good. I'd trust our kernel team. :)
<sistpoty> hey, LaserJock, nice work for the sru-page, thx!
<jdong> Fujitsu: modprobe is looking in really funny locations for nvidia.ko; libGL.so.1 symlinks not existing ....
<LaserJock> I find it strangely disturbing that crimsun knows more about TV shows then I do :/
<jdong> Fujitsu: etc etc etc
<LaserJock> sistpoty: np
<Fujitsu> Fun.
<jdong> crimsun_: of course I trust you guys
<jdong> crimsun_: it's just curiousity prompts me to figure out what the heck is going on
<crimsun_> LaserJock: I don't. amazon.com spammed me with gateworld.net news.
<imbrandon> heh
* imbrandon feels sad he is on the yahoo sg-1 mailing list
<crimsun_> I don't have a tv, so knowing about tv shows is kinda difficult.
<ajmitch> sistpoty: so, time to make a decision on the motu meeting
<ajmitch> otherwise friday will pass us by
<sistpoty> ajmitch: actually I'd be inclined to wait another 12 hours... but I'll count votes right now ;)
<sistpoty> (once I've finished marking emails as read, which I read whilst at uni *g*)
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> did giskard's email get to the list?
<ajmitch> for some reason he replied to mine, agreeing for friday
<jdong> ha! yes! got an experienced beryl guy to reproduce it!
<jdong> finally I might have some enlgihtening info
<LaserJock> crimsun_: thank goodness, I was feeling pretty bad
<sistpoty> ajmitch: are you trying to get more friday votes? *g* (no didn't make it=
<jdong> crimsun_: ok, here's what appears to be happening....
<jdong> this ONLY happens with 9631, 9640+ are unaffected
<jdong> Xorg.0.log reports that it can't find the NVIDIA kernel module and borks out
<jdong> but dmesg, lsmod both show the kernel module initializing
<crimsun_> ajmitch: yes, his did. https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2006-December/001053.html
<ajmitch> sistpoty: yes, I am :)
<jdong> crimsun_: so are there any security updates that could've affected the behavior of how the nvidia userland would interface with its module?
<ajmitch> sistpoty: I'm working on wednesday, friday is fine for me (saturday morning here)
<sistpoty> ah, k
<LaserJock> wednesday is less then ideal for me
<LaserJock> I will perhaps be 500 miles into the Christmas drive home at that time
<LaserJock> and I somehow doubt I'll get wifi in the middle of the Idaho
* sistpoty counts votes
<crimsun_> LaserJock: you're totally hardcore, though, and you'll be ircing over your cell phone.
<LaserJock> crimsun_: I don't think my cellphone will even work there, maybe
<crimsun_> I have faith in one-third of the MOTU trinity.
<bddebian> :'-(
<crimsun_> oh, sorry, didn't mean to omit bddebian and imbrandon.
<sistpoty> ajmitch, LaserJock: both dates have same number of votes (from votes I got by mail) ... *g*
<LaserJock> I just sent in mine
<ajmitch> sistpoty: great, friday it is! ;)
<sistpoty> ok, make it so :)
<LaserJock> seriously, maybe we should have 2 meetings fairly close to each other, I'm sure we have lots of things to go over
<ajmitch> the powers of persuasion
<LaserJock> I'd personally like to see one right after the TB to confirm the MOTU Council
<ajmitch> we need to find out the quickest way of setting up the MOTU council
<sistpoty> LaserJock: same here... whereas I'd even would like to discuss MOTU Council a little bit on the next meeting, but I guess dholbach might kill me then
<ajmitch> sistpoty: he won't kill you, it'll help to clarify expectations
<ryanakca> I take it that this is because of messed up source code? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/36888/
<imbrandon> woot LaserJock got the scripts working 
<sistpoty> ajmitch: well, I was thinking even a little bit further: s.th. like setting up an interim council, as I think that might really help us get back to full speed again
<imbrandon> sistpoty: +1
<imbrandon> if its gonna be any length of time we need one
<LaserJock> sistpoty: well, do we know who we are reccommending be the MOTU Council?
<ajmitch> not yet
<LaserJock> why not just have them be the interim council until it's formalized
<LaserJock> I'm sure dholbach knows
<ajmitch> depends what the interim council will do
<ajmitch> if it's just the normal stuff like TODO lists, etc
<ajmitch> that'll be fine
<imbrandon> probably anything the normal council will do but not the memberships
<imbrandon> like TODO's
<LaserJock> yeah, no approvals of memebers/MOTUs
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> brb mt dew run
<sistpoty> ajmitch: it couldn't make ubuntu-members/motu's yet... but imo we have also some problems with getting just a final ack/rej for stuff in question
<sistpoty> (e.g. sru-policy)
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> I thought we had come to an agreement on sru-policy, to be honest
<LaserJock> just direction, guidance, something to get people behind
<ajmitch> and I didn't know that we had other stuff pending
<jdong> would any part of the kernel upgrade procedure zap usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.o?
<jdong> it appears missing on all the broken nvidia people
<jdong> but they swear it all worked before the update
<sistpoty> ajmitch: well, some kind of... but then the discussion reappeared (where I was involved in) on the ml... with a final mail from me (two weeks later, when sru's had already been handled) asking about further objections
<sistpoty> and so was it then... but things like this will reappear soon enough imo, that ppl. have good ideas but wait until they get an ack from somewhere, which doesn't happen atm.
<ajmitch> sometimes I don't think we need agreement, but to just make a decision
<ajmitch> so finalise the sru policy if you haven't already :)
<ajmitch> people will agree with it, I'm sure
<sistpoty> :)
<LaserJock> we just need direction and quick decisions
<ajmitch> we tend towards too much discussion for some things, and not enough for others :)
* ajmitch appoints LaserJock, sistpoty, crimsun_ & imbrandon to be the interim council
<LaserJock> we've gotten bogged down in confusing docs, slow responses, and unclear/changing policies
<ajmitch> go forth & rule with an iron fist
<giskard> ajmitch, ops
<sistpoty> ajmitch: good decision *g*, but that's only 4, so we'd definitely ajmitch as number 5
* jdong breaks out the chattr immutable hammer
<ajmitch> sistpoty: nah, prince holbach needs his place
<LaserJock> dude, that reminds me
<ajmitch> giskard: it's ok, I bounced it to the list
<sistpoty> hehe
<LaserJock> I was at this department store with my wife shopping
<LaserJock> and we were looking for something for my neices
<LaserJock> and in this pile of color books, etc. there was a DVD of the first 20 episodes of He-Man
<ajmitch> hah
<ajmitch> did you buy it?
<LaserJock> nah
<ajmitch> aw
<LaserJock> it was like $16
<ajmitch> you should have
<LaserJock> and I just couldn't really think of any compelling reason to buy it
<LaserJock> plus my wife was there so she would tease me about it
<ajmitch> that's not fair
<LaserJock> but on the front was He-Man riding that cat thing (can't remember the name) and it brought back some memories
<LaserJock> anyway ...
<LaserJock> so do we have a list of things that need to be taken care of ASAP?
<LaserJock> there's no use in having a interim council if they aren't going to do anything
<ajmitch> battlecat!
<LaserJock> oh yeah
<sistpoty> :)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: todo lists, whipping people to do merges, etc
<sistpoty> exactly...
<ajmitch> sistpoty is doing a great job keeping people up to date about sru
<LaserJock> yeah, sru seems ok
<ajmitch> communication of stuff to UWN authors
<imbrandon> re
<ajmitch> hey imbrandon :)
<LaserJock> I've seen a few times now that Scott isn't so pleased with our merge progress
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> we've been slacking
<ajmitch> making MOTUs aware of the various deadlines
<sistpoty> thx ajmitch, I guess I learned that from my gf (social worker) which means  95% of the time to represent stuff that you've done, because you get no funds otherwise
<ajmitch> maybe deciding on some of the freeze dates for universe
<LaserJock> I think the whole merge lock thing is holding back some work
<ajmitch> anything that doesn't require TB or CC delegation
<LaserJock> and merges.ubuntu.com not being updated
<ajmitch> LaserJock: yes, but it can be annoying finding out that a merge you were working on was done, by looking on feisty-changes
<sistpoty> LaserJock: yes, I'd like to talk about the lock thing on the meeting as well
<ajmitch> I've had stuff that I was doing taken, with no notification
<sistpoty> thx crimsun_ for the dosemu merge btw :)
<ajmitch> by 'working on', I mean I had the package ready to upload & was just wanting to ask mvo about something :)
<LaserJock> mhm
<imbrandon> LaserJock: got the scripts working on voyager http://voyager.imbrandon.com/mdt/feisty/kde.html
<LaserJock> Perhaps what we need to do is have weekly goals for MOTU
<imbrandon> now just to refine the package list
<ajmitch> LaserJock: that's the plan
<ajmitch> we agreed on that at UDS
<ajmitch> imbrandon: useful
<LaserJock> haha, what a tiny list ;-)
<tsmithe> anyone wanna revu asoundconf-gtk?
<ajmitch> I think I've got most of my zope merges done
* ajmitch has to check a couple
<sistpoty> date for motu-meeting is now fixed :)
<ajmitch> yay
<ajmitch> thanks
<ajmitch> what day did you choose?
<LaserJock> uh oh
<imbrandon> day/time ?
<crimsun_> LaserJock: mind punting that merge page to the ubuntu-motu list?
<sistpoty> ajmitch: friday
<LaserJock> crimsun_: which merge page?
<crimsun_> LaserJock: script that has updated merge status?
<imbrandon> crimsun_: the mdt ones like i just ran ?
<crimsun_> imbrandon: sure
<imbrandon> ahh ok yea, after i refine the packages it looks at to split out universe/main 
<imbrandon> etcv
<imbrandon> etc*
<LaserJock> yeah, I used to do that
<LaserJock> http://tiber.tauware.de/~lucas/versions/unimultiverse-all.html is a start
<imbrandon> those arent on crons though are they ?
<LaserJock> yeah
<imbrandon> e.g. the ones on tiber
<imbrandon> ohhh mdt got installed ?
<LaserJock> yeah
<imbrandon> err updated on tiber
<imbrandon> nice
<imbrandon> hehe
<LaserJock> it's just older
<LaserJock> it doesn't have the patch that Fujitsu/I did
<LaserJock> well, I can make a script that produces "Outdated in Ubuntu" and "Outdated in Ubuntu, but Ubuntu has local changes" for Universe/Multiverse
<sistpoty> geser: damn, couldn't you have shouted for the date a little bit earlier? (I just missed your mail, sorry)
<ajmitch> sistpoty: thanks for dropping me in it :)
<sistpoty> hehe
<ajmitch> 9am saturday morning for me
<ajmitch> not too bad
<sistpoty> ok, seems like we'd need to get this to fridge-calendar as well. anyone got a clue?
<geser> will there be a log of the meeting?
<ajmitch> there's an editors mailing list, I think
<imbrandon> let me know the date/time and i'll add to to the fridge now
<ajmitch> geser: always
<ajmitch> ah, imbrandon Has The Power
<crimsun_> wiki/MOTU/Meetings clarified
<imbrandon> is Friday, 12/15/06, 20.00 UTC correct ?
<ajmitch> 15/12/06, for the rest of the world
<imbrandon> heh
<sistpoty> ajmitch: really, I thought I'd have the date/month not wrong this time... :(
<ajmitch> sistpoty: hm?
<sistpoty> mom... looking for my (un)famous bug
<sistpoty> ajmitch: just look at bug #33203
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 33203 in launchpad "poll: dates are not properly validated" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/33203
<imbrandon> ok ajmitch sistpoty crimsun_ , added to the fridge calendar
<sistpoty> thx imbrandon
<imbrandon> please check to make sure i ddient typo
<ajmitch> thank you
<imbrandon> np
<ajmitch> it should appear in the #-meeting topic soon then
<imbrandon> yea, when Seveas bot runs the cron to update ( every 15 minutes ? )
<Seveas> 60
<crimsun_> sistpoty: while you're editing MOTU/Meetings, would you please add "Decide universe UVF/FF dates" to the agenda?
<imbrandon> ahh :)
<Seveas> or run @topic in there to force an update
<sistpoty> crimsun_: oops, sorry, just forgot about the tab with the lock *g+
<sistpoty> crimsun_: will do
<crimsun_> sistpoty: thanks :)
<sistpoty> crimsun_: np... please recheck ;)
<imbrandon> i'll be about ~15 minutes late btw to it ( not that it should make a diff )
<imbrandon> ( the meeting )
<imbrandon> because thats right when i'm driving home hehe
<imbrandon> but no biggie
<ajmitch> imbrandon: just connect from work & drive home later :)
<imbrandon> yea thats probably what i'll do
<imbrandon> specialy now that i wont be sshing to my home box and lag like i did in the UbuntuOpenWeek talks
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> wow a debian proper story hit digg
<ajmitch> about etch?
<imbrandon> no titled "debian: server yes - desktop no" but suprisingly a upbeat story
<imbrandon> you can pretty much sum the whole article up with , its a great server but quote .....
<imbrandon> Mind you, I'm 100 percent convinced that I could have successfully created a completely satisfactory configuration of a Debian GNU/Linux desktop... given enough patience, that is. But frankly, I've got too many more-pressing things to do with my time than reinvent the Ubuntu/MEPIS/Freespire wheel ;-)
<imbrandon> </quote>
<ajmitch> heh
<imbrandon> ugh i hate ftp, i hate it even more that i have to setup an ftp server
<imbrandon> ( for a friend )
<imbrandon> is there a simple to configure ftp server in universe?
* imbrandon looks
<crimsun_> vsftpd 
<imbrandon> cool thanks
<sistpoty> imbrone, that I really liked was openftpd (you can completely control it via site-commands), but the project is long dead now and I never came around to make sane packages from it
<sistpoty> s/imbrone/imbrandon/
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> this is just a one off for a buddy, so hopefull vsftpd will be fine
<imbrandon> looks good so far
<imbrandon> personaly i just use sftp built into sshd
<imbrandon> when i need it
<imbrandon> or scp
<crimsun_> sistpoty: tidied. I rearranged some ordering.
* LaserJock crosses his fingers
<sistpoty> crimsun_: nice...
<sistpoty> crimsun_: oh, you seem to have made "review process" (aka revu vs. bzr) to "review sru process" *g*... I'll fix this
<crimsun_> sistpoty: ok, I wasn't sure which it was.
<sistpoty> I guess this meeting might get quite long again
<LaserJock> com'on tiber, push ... push
<LaserJock> "Scotty... we .. need .. more .. power!"
<LaserJock> tiber FTW!
<LaserJock> http://tiber.tauware.de/~laserjock/motutodo/multiverse.html
<LaserJock> http://tiber.tauware.de/~laserjock/motutodo/universe.html
<sistpoty> nice!
<LaserJock> should I drop the first category?
<LaserJock> it's not useful for merges but shows what packages we've modified
<LaserJock> crimsun_: ^^ ?
<sistpoty> LaserJock: yay, get rid of it please :)
<crimsun_> yeah, I support killing that first section
<LaserJock> crimsun_ & sistpoty : reload http://tiber.tauware.de/~laserjock/motutodo/universe.html
<sistpoty> LaserJock: great!
<sistpoty> LaserJock: the small font gives the impression, that there isn't that much left to do :)
<LaserJock> haha
<LaserJock> not like a wiki page
<sistpoty> *g*
<LaserJock> sistpoty: cron'd and ready to fly
<sistpoty> yeeehaa!
<sistpoty> LaserJock: you speak french, don't you?
<LaserJock> no, sadly
<LaserJock> very little
<LaserJock> I can count to 10 and silly things like that
<sistpoty> LaserJock: maybe better than nothing (me)
<LaserJock> but UDS-Paris showed me how little I knew
<jdong> LaserJock: I can too! uno, dos, ....
<LaserJock> French jdong 
<LaserJock> ;-)
<jdong> LaserJock: same thing
<sistpoty> LaserJock: I'm looking for a download link for menareants, that should be somewhere at http://coderz.info/wiki/index.php?title=Men_Are_Ants
<LaserJock> just more gutteral
<sistpoty> and I don't understand a word :(
* jdong tries to recall french
<Adri2000> sistpoty: download = tlcharger ;)
<jdong> unus, duo, tres, quattuor.....
<sistpoty> Adri2000: ah, thx!
#ubuntu-motu 2006-12-14
<jdong> ack screw it, 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
<jdong> (read in French)
<LaserJock> yeah, gotta know the essentials
<jdong> there.
<LaserJock> download
<LaserJock> GPL should be the same :-)
<sistpoty> *g*
<LaserJock> and if it has euro signs next to it don't click
<LaserJock> I had one package where the homepage was entirely Japanese
<LaserJock> that was difficult
<jdong> LaserJock: heh, I'd do better with that than French
* jdong notes conflicting reports of stock repo nvidia-legacy breaking too
<jdong> fixable by a depmod -ae
<jdong> argh, this is beyond frustrating to try to support
* sistpoty uses the binary nvidia driver *duck*
<jdong> sistpoty: you don't need to duck unless you say you used a 3rd party repo or automatix to install it :D
<tsmithe> yeah he does
<tsmithe> non believer!
<sistpoty> jdong: hm... earlier on, I'd say that I compiled it myself (the debian way though)... but with ubuntu I changed to stock kernel + stock binary module
<jdong> the thing is
<jdong> it seems like 3rd party 9631 is most likely to break
<jdong> and in a very destructive manner too
<jdong> nvidia_drv.o disappears from xorg's directory
<jdong> but official drivers have been reported to break and require a depmod -ae, too
<jdong> although it's all wildly inconsistent
<LaserJock> jdong: what do you mean by "3rd party"?
<jdong> LaserJock: like tsmithe or amaranth's repositories
<jdong> LaserJock: that provide a modified lrm package with updated nvidia
<Amaranth> jdong: nvidia_drv.o doesn't not exist
<jdong> LaserJock: typically used by beryl-ites for their native indirect rendering, etc
<jdong> Amaranth: .so?
<Amaranth> jdong: it was replaced by nvidia_drv.so in the 9xxx series
<Amaranth> my package includes it
<jdong> that's what I meant
<jdong> Amaranth: but the breakage cases I've seen, all nvidia* disappears
<jdong> so does libglx*
<Amaranth> how is that possible?
<jdong> from /usr/lib/xorg{/drivers}
<jdong> Amaranth: I DONT KNOW
<jdong> that's what puzzles me :)
<tsmithe> jdong, I don't provide a repo (not enough bandwidth)
<jdong> and nobody has been able to reproduce it more than once
<jdong> i.e. forcing a downgrade and re-upgrade cannot make the files disappear again
<jdong> but clearly to begin with when I diagnosed their problems
<jdong> all userspace nvidia vanished without a trace
<Amaranth> tsmithe: You are the creator of envy?
<jdong> but the kernel module was intact
<tsmithe> Amaranth, errrr.... no
<jdong> tsmithe: sorry, my misinformation
<tsmithe> i am not alberto milone
<tsmithe> :)
<Amaranth> oh, that's who that is
<tsmithe> :)
<jdong> anyway
<jdong> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=1882869
<jdong> this is my attempt at centralizing a thread for this issue
<jdong> it already has some interesting reports from users
<sistpoty> hi minghua
<minghua> hello sistpoty
<Amaranth> jdong: oh shit, there is a new l-r-m in edgy-security?
<Amaranth> jdong: that will force the uninstall of nvidia-glx
<jdong> no no no
<jdong> relax
<Amaranth> and they will not be able to reinstall nvidia-glx until the 3rd party l-r-m is updated
<jdong> no new l-r-m
<Amaranth> it's a kernel?
<jdong> just new l-i
<jdong> right
<jdong> new kernel
<jdong> still ABI number 10
<jdong> so IN THEORY nothing should break
<jdong> however, many users are reporting such breakages
<jdong> not  nearly as global as the famous dapper incident
<jdong> but still enough that it doesn't sseem to be random
* Burgwork hugs slomo_
<Burgwork> thanks for ffmpeg
<Amaranth> jdong: does it remove nvidia-glx?
<Amaranth> also, what the hell happened to the forums?
<jdong> Amaranth: no, it doesn't remove nvidia-glx
<jdong> Amaranth: but many files from nvidia-glx magically disappeard for some users
<jdong> during the upgrade
<jdong> Amaranth: which a reinstall of nvidia-glx fixed
<jdong> again, very very very weird
<jdong> I acn't explain how it happened
<Amaranth> that is uncanny
<jdong> Amaranth: what do you mean what happened to the forums?
<Amaranth> jdong: the colors are all screwed up
<jdong> I think it's called a "new theme"
<jdong> I wasn't involved in that
* _MMA_ wonders also. Some brown is back.
<jdong> so I can't say for sure
<jdong> the brown->black is a new theme
<jdong> I can't tell for sure if it's intended that way or still in adjustment
<jdong> again, I don't do the artwork :)
* _MMA_ misses the brown. :(
<jdong> heh
* ajmitch returns
<sistpoty> wb
<LaserJock> hola ajmitch 
<ajmitch> what's new?
<jdong> LaserJock: you speak french? ;-)
<LaserJock> but of course amigo
<sistpoty> wee... colors in buildlog... never seen this before while building a package
<jdong> apparently cmake based builds are colorful
<jdong> aah crap I guess I wasn't supposed to cut that
<sistpoty> scons this time... just really funny to have it in a buildlog *g*
<jdong> anyone here who works in retail security?
<jdong> or otherwise has suggestions for disabling the security thing they put on electronics boxes?
<jdong> they left it on something I purchased
<jdong> so I thought I was supposed to snip it off
<jdong> but that obviously activated the alarm
<jdong> (wow that was stupid in retrospect)
<jdong> aah, I can't take it
<jdong> help!
<jdong> I'm beating it senseless with a 6-cell police-issue maglite
<jdong> and it's still beeping louder than my fire alarm
<jdong> my family here is pointing and laughing at me....
* sistpoty points and laughs at jdong as well :P
<jdong> un believable
<jdong> I have it in a hot water and hydrochloric acid solution
<jdong> and it's still beeping
<crimsun_> got a young niece/nephew?
<jdong> and the resonation in the water is worse
<LaserJock> umm, where did you get the HCL?
<jdong> crimsun_: it's not gonna work better than a 15-pound maglite
<crimsun_> (and the speed of sound bit...)
<crimsun_> jdong: truly spoken as someone without kids
<jdong> LaserJock: they sell it as industrial toilet bowl cleaner
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> ah
<jdong> LaserJock: actually I think it's supposed to be used as whitewash
<jdong> as a sulfuric acid replacement
<jdong> but it's not working :)
<jdong> crimsun_: I was joking
<jdong> crimsun_: I've got a 6-year-old younger sibling who I love dearly
<crimsun_> kids have amazing comprehension
<jdong> HA! YES! STOPPED IT
<sistpoty> hehe, and I they even love things that make sounds
<sistpoty> -I
<jdong> who says this EMP device won't come in handy?
<jdong> gotta love 2.5F of capacitance and a 4000-turn coil
* jdong cries
<jdong> is it friday the 13th and nobody told me?
* jdong proceeds to disarm his smoke detector
<jdong> there that was fun
<jdong> now, jdong, what did we learn NOT to  do today....
<zul> not to smoke crack
<jdong> zul: no, that was yesterday
<LaserJock> must be some left in your system
<jdong> perhaps there was
* jdong hugs his 6D maglite
* sistpoty needs to go to bed now
<sistpoty> gn8 everyone
<jdong> night
<jdong> zul: and in my defense nobody could've anticipated that there'd be an _alarm_ in the knobby security device thing
<jdong> I thought it was just something used to activate the door alarm
<zul> o..k
<LaserJock> an ubuntu1 version overrides a build1 version doesn't it
<jdong> u > b
<ajmitch> LaserJock: yes, it does
<LaserJock> right, excellent
<LaserJock> almost have my 2 Main srus done
<LaserJock> bddebian!
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<fernando> hi all
<ajmitch> uh oh, bddebian is here
<bddebian> Hi fernando
<bddebian> ajmitch: Hi to you too :-)
<fernando> hey bddebian 
<joejaxx> Hello everyone
<joejaxx> i have an interesting question for you all :P
<joejaxx> is there a way to install a debian package and restrict it from starting any services that might be linked to it at the time of the install?
<joejaxx> for example
<joejaxx> openssh-server
<joejaxx> how could you stop it from from /etc/init.d/ssh start at the time of install
<LaserJock> well, remove it's postinst :-)
<joejaxx> LaserJock: well i meant without modifying the package :P
<joejaxx> too bad there is not a sudo apt-get install blah --do-not-start-services
<minghua> joejaxx: because dpkg/apt knows nothing about starting services
<imbrandon> the debian way is not to have services installed that arent going to be run , unlike redhat etc where sendmail etc might be installed but not running
<minghua> joejaxx: it only executes the postinst script
<minghua> exactly what imbrandon said
<joejaxx> i wonder how i can get hal to install then
<minghua> that's also why openssh-server and openssh-client are split up
<crimsun_> remove the call to setup_init in openssh-server.postinst
<joejaxx> or i think that was the package
<joejaxx> because i cannot have two hal instances running at the same time :P
<joejaxx> crimsun_: yes but that calls for modifying the package which is bad in this case
<crimsun_> hal instances? what precisely are you referring to?
<crimsun_> hald? hald-runner? hald-addon-* ?
<joejaxx> installing hal in a chroot environment
<joejaxx> hald
<joejaxx> i think that is the service if i remember correctly
<joejaxx> you all probably think it is weird i am trying to do that lol
<crimsun_> not really, since it works fine here.
<joejaxx> crimsun_: hmmm
<joejaxx> hold on let me see
<joejaxx> it might not be hald then
<joejaxx> hald i think is the one that takes a while for the service to start when installing the package
<joejaxx> i can tell you in 8 minutes
<joejaxx> i am debootstaping the os now
<minghua> Hmm, so there is a Houston LoCo team...
<joejaxx> AHHh
<joejaxx> i know what it is now
<joejaxx> it is acpi
<joejaxx> acpid
<joejaxx> that one
<joejaxx> sorry about that hal installs it jut takes a WHILE for the daemon to start
<keescook> hm, anyone used vmware-player on feisty?  Its fonts are trashed.  :(
<imbrandon> no player
<imbrandon> i have used console alot
<imbrandon> e.g. vmware console
<joejaxx> crimsun_: it is acpid
<rmjb> why is it, when I choose dapper-backports on packages.ubuntu.com the results come up for edgy?
<LaserJock> who knows :-)
<imbrandon> zomg
<imbrandon> look at the gid headlines
<imbrandon> "Ubuntu Satanic Edition Released!!"
<rmjb> i checked the url and it also has dapper-backports, so it seems something with the searching rather than the search form
<Lathiat> thats old IIRC
<Lathiat> like 2 months old
<rmjb> imbrandon: where's that headline?
<Lathiat> yay collectively memory of digg < goldfish ;)
<imbrandon> rmjb: digg front page
<Lathiat> according to some stats the collective memory of digg is ~30 days
<Lathiat> before things start repeating again consistently
<joejaxx> LaserJock: imbrandon 
* joejaxx is crazy and is trying to install acpid in a chroot :P
<jdong> Lathiat: FYI goldfish have >30day memory
<joejaxx> riddle me that one
<jdong> I used to train fish as a hobby
<jdong> joejaxx: not again :P
<joejaxx> jdong: really?
<Lathiat> jdong: hence digg < goldfish? ;)
<joejaxx> jdong: haha!
<jdong> joejaxx: absolutely
<jdong> they're not the brightest fish
<jdong> but they are really really motivated by food
<joejaxx> jdong: how long does it take
<jdong> unlike some other fish
<joejaxx> oh 
<Lathiat> mythbusters did some stuff with them
<Lathiat> that was interesting;
<jdong> it takes about a week to get them to follow a stupid obstacle course
<jdong> they respond to bright flourescent colors really well
<jdong> and food ALONG the colors :)
<jdong> but you can get the to swim in a distinct pattern along the bottom of the tank
<jdong> but after they are trained, they will retain it for a long long time
<jdong> and if you refresh them like every month with one dry run, they'll remember
<joejaxx> jdong: wow
<jdong> but I've left them alone for several months before, and they'll still kinda do the trick
<jdong> though with a few flaws here and tehre
<jdong> but that definitely proves they don't have a 3-second memory
* Lathiat nods
<jdong> so yeah, goldfish < digg :D
* Lathiat hits up youtube
<jdong> now enough of exposing more of my nerdiness
<Lathiat> jdong: reverse digg,goldfish ;)
<jdong> Lathiat: it's been a LONG day
<jdong> :)
* jdong invites Lathiat to read scrollback about me with the stupid security tag
<Lathiat> the mythbusters goldfish thing isnt on youtube
<Lathiat> im dispapointed
<Lathiat> i'll extract it later
* crimsun_ groans
<crimsun_> no. Don't respond directly to me in a bug report. Don't mail me 4 MB jpg attachments, playlists, etc.
<jdong> LOL
<crimsun_> this bug reporting is getting out of hand.
<jdong> crimsun_: I'm sorry :)
<imbrandon> 4mb jpeg, wow crimsun_ 
<crimsun_> apparently I'm still downloading the mpg that is attached.
<imbrandon> zomg
<rmjb> jdong: I saw the backport log for torrentflux
<rmjb> you said you had it working on dapper?
<jdong> rmjb: correct
<jdong> rmjb: I have it running on my dapper server
<jdong> rmjb: sup?
<jdong> crimsun_: ha! a mpeg-2 screen cap?
<rmjb> what does it take? just the edgy source files and debuild and install?
<rmjb> I want to get it on my dapper server too
<jdong> rmjb: pretty much yeah, bump down the version a bit with a ~ tag of some sort
<jdong> rmjb: like append ~0rmjb1
<rmjb> cool
<rmjb> thanks
<jdong> crimsun_: then I shouldn't be submitting my bugs in an h.264 encoded interpretive dance?
<crimsun_> by all means, you -should-!
<crimsun_> my killfile AI needs training anyhow
<ajmitch> sigh, just got sistpoty's mail about the meeting date
<jdong> :)
<ajmitch> even though it was sent > 4 hours ago
<jdong> crimsun_: on second thoughts I'll encode it in RealVideo4 :)
<rmjb_> I probably got d/c before my last message made it so here it is again
<rmjb_> jdong: since the backport for it to dapper is not complete, is there anything I should be aware of? any package I should have pre-installed? like mysql-client
<jdong> rmjb you should have a fully functional LAMP stack installed
<jdong> rmjb: including an operational mysql-server
<jdong> and client
<jdong> installed
<jdong> rmjb: torrentflux postinst will want to set up the database for you
<rmjb_> I have apache2, phpX and mysql from attempting mythtv before, so I should be set
<jdong> cool
<jdong> that'll do
<imbrandon> dget http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/a/apache2/apache2_2.2.3-3.2.dsc
<imbrandon> gah
<jdong> Password:
<jdong> oh wait nvm
<jdong> :D
<imbrandon> heh
<rmjb_> jdong: so what's needed to complete the backport?
<jdong> rmjb_: it doesn't depend on anything else
<jdong> rmjb_: heck since it's a php arch-neutral package you can just install the deb if you want
<rmjb_> from edgy?
<jdong> yeah sure why not :)
<jdong> it's pretty safe to do
<jdong> with this particular package
<rmjb_> will give it a shot then
<imbrandon> ajmitch: ping
<ajmitch> imbrandon: pong
<imbrandon> heya do you have that hook handy that lets the pbuilder install froim the results dir
<imbrandon> from*
<imbrandon> you know what one i'm talking about hehe
* imbrandon is gonna try to install apache2.2 from sid 
<ajmitch> imbrandon: yeah, I do
* ajmitch digs
<ajmitch> some of it is in the pbuilder config
<imbrandon> thanks
* imbrandon yawns
<imbrandon> hrm i think someone messed up
<imbrandon> http://releases.ubuntu.com/  <-- isnt that supose to be the cd releases ?
<Lathiat> yes, looks b0rk
<Admiral_Chicago> that's not right...
<kkubasik> Sorry if anyone here is also in ubuntu-desktop, as I just asked there, but here it goes
<kkubasik>  I have an updated patch against our current gtk+ that adds search support to the file chooser
<kkubasik> pretty wicked, I'm testing the build now, but need a hand figuring out how to get the patch into the gtk package
<kkubasik>  so that I can approach ubuntu core with it
<Simon80> I agree PFA is trollish, but she's on the line only
<Simon80> just walks along it really
<Simon80> shit, wrong chan
<Simon80> err.. !ohmy
<imbrandon> :)
<Simon80> lol
<Simon80> looks lik stepmania's going to be a while btw
<Simon80> I'm trying to work with upstream to clean out the theme for the cvs version, if that is feasible in a quick fashion (this isn't entirely likely though) then I'll package that
<ajmitch> Simon80: heh
<Simon80> yeah
<Simon80> well, I'm trying
<Simon80> I really would like to sort it out so that it's no longer an issue
<Simon80> but the culture around the game grew up around ripping off official songs, lol
<Simon80> so they don't tend to meticulously document the copyright
<Simon80> 3.9 though, not happening
<Simon80> unless I find a purely legal theme to replace the default, and even that may not happen, the themes cascade, lol
<Simon80> so I would maybe have to hack on it... and that's ridiculous, theming stepmania is ridiculous
<Simon80> so at most I'll try to replace media for them if I have time and there's a need
* Hobbsee wishes that she lived in a timezone that didnt suck.
* somerville32 bugs Hobbsee 
<somerville32> ...
* somerville32 hugs Hobbsee.
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: live in NZ
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: i'm not sure that would help
<ajmitch> sure it would
<ajmitch> at least it's a nicer place to live
<Hobbsee> hrm
<imbrandon> gnight all
<ajmitch> hight imbrandon 
<crimsun_> Hobbsee: not sure what you're referring to wrt ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<Hobbsee> crimsun_: the mailing list was going to everyone
<crimsun_> right
<Hobbsee> people complained, so i put the contact address as one of my other emails
<Hobbsee> you're free to be an admin of it, and deal with it however, if you want
<crimsun_> can we set up a mailing list for u-u-s?
<Hobbsee> probably, but i've got no idea on how ot
<Hobbsee> *to
<crimsun_> that's pretty much what happened for motumedia, among others
* Hobbsee nods
* crimsun_ returns to marking
<minghua> Hobbsee: thanks for taking care of the ubuntu-universe-sponsors bugmail stuff
<Hobbsee> minghua: ugh, yeah
<Hobbsee> minghua: i'm seriously thinking about putting someone else in charge of it, so they dont screw it up
<superm1> Is there a way to set a package's preinst to be dependent on being installed only after another package finishes setting up its conffiles?
<minghua> Hobbsee: you were not screwing it up
* minghua blames launchpad
<superm1> better yet - would pre-depends cover this?
<minghua> superm1: you mean preinst being *run*
<minghua> ?
<superm1> yes
<Hobbsee> minghua: yes, launchpad is absolutely moronic, which is why i hadnt dealt with the mail crap before that
* Hobbsee still feels like she was screwing it up
<minghua> superm1: and what do you mean by "setting up its conffiles"?  the other package's postinst needs to be run first?
<minghua> Hobbsee: you are doing good, don't worry :-)
<superm1> well its not the other package's postinst doing it, its just a conffile that appears to get setup at the end of the install
<Hobbsee> heh, okay
<superm1> gdm in particular.  if i make my package dependent on gdm, i wanted my preinst to be able to read something from gdm.conf-custom
<superm1> but its not existing unless gdm is fully installed
<minghua> hmm, then how is it a conffile...
<superm1> i'm assuming during install, its called gdm.conf-custom.dpkgNEW or something
<superm1> to that nature
<minghua> superm1: but it sounds like you need a Pre-Depends
<superm1> yea thats what i'm thinkin i'm needing after looking at the DNMG
<superm1> more closely
<minghua> just for the record, there is no gdm.conf-custom conffile in Debian
<superm1> but there is in Ubuntu
<superm1> this package is gonna be ubuntu specific
<superm1> :)
<minghua> sure
<minghua> I'm just saying :-)
<superm1> thanks a bunch 
<minghua> superm1: it sounds strange though
<minghua> superm1: are you sure that file is listed in /var/lib/dpkg/info/gdm.conffiles?
<superm1> well i just tested it and it worked
<superm1> with a pre-depends
<superm1> minghua, yes it is. cat /var/lib/dpkg/info/gdm.conffiles  | grep custom
<superm1> /etc/gdm/gdm.conf-custom
<minghua> enemies-of-carlotta?  that's a package name?
<superm1> wow, weird name for a mailing list manager
<minghua> superm1: okay thanks.  but people are supposed to modify that file, aren't they?  that would make upgrade unnecessarily painful.
<minghua> superm1: yeah, I thought it's a game or something
<superm1> well what i'm trying to do is provide an alternate file in a different directory, divert the original to a /etc/gdm/gdm.conf-custom-original, and then use a symlink to link /etc/gdm/gdm.conf-custom to my alternate file
<superm1> the package is a metapackage that is trying to automate the configuration of several apps to fine tune a machine for a specific purpose
<superm1> gdm in particular to setup an automatic login
<superm1> and then if they scrap the metapackage, they'll get their original conffile back
<superm1> minghua, is it against packaging rules to do something like this though?
<minghua> superm1: I have not an expert on conffile handling or diversion, but sounds sane to me
<minghua> superm1: except that people usually just divert a file and put another with the same name there, instead of doing a symlink
<superm1> okay, its the only semisane solution i have been able to come up with the last week.  i've been trying lots of wacky things that i've never seen done before
<superm1> well i tried that
<superm1> but the problem is it becomes a conffile for this package
<superm1> and you cant reverse the diversion, unless you purge the package
<minghua> hmm, good point
<superm1> which is a catch22 because you cant purge the package because the postrm would try to revert the diversion
<minghua> things always become tricky when it comes to conffiles
<superm1> so i'm just placing the conffiles that would have been used here in /etc/mythtv, so that they can still be conffiles, and the symlink gets blown away before reverting the diversion
<Chandu> is there any way to add additional langauags (locales) without doing "dpkg-reconfigure locales" , thru any other command or scrip
<crimsun_> Chandu: that method was deprecated as of dapper.
<crimsun_> Chandu: if you use gnome, see System> Administration> Language Support
<Chandu> crimsun_, ok
<crimsun_> Chandu: otherwise you need to use locale-gen(8)
<Chandu> crimsun_, If I use locale-gen ..will that lanague displays in gdm
<crimsun_> Chandu: not my realm, but I don't think so
<Chandu> crimsun_, ok
<crimsun_> you'd be better off asking dholbach or seb128
<Chandu> crimsun_, ok
<somerville32> IS there a different between a MOTU and a ubuntu developer?
<crimsun_> for all practical purposes, no. A Ubuntu developer can be thought of as a member of the Launchpad ubuntu-dev team, which includes anyone with universe upload privileges. Therefore, MOTU are Ubuntu developers.
<crimsun_> By this definition, all paid Canonical employees that have universe upload privileges are Ubuntu developers, too.
<crimsun_> In terms of roles, one could argue that MOTU concentrate on maintaining packages, whereas Ubuntu developers concentrate less on maintaining packages and rather implement specs.
<\sh> moins
<Sp4rKy> hi there
<somerville32> Hi Sp4rKy 
<dholbach> good morning
<raphink> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hey raphink
* minghua hates this "developers don't get enough thanks" and wants to rename it "developers don't get enough distractions" :-(
<minghua> this "..." bug*
<crimsun_> yeah, that's another one I killfiled
<ajmitch> hi
<dholbach> hi crimsun_, hi minghua, hi ajmitch :)
* minghua hugs dholbach
* dholbach hugs minghua back :)
<Sp4rKy> raphink: can i disturb you a few minutes ?
<minghua> wow, so Debian import freeze is just one week away?
<minghua> dholbach: the problem with scim in Ubuntu is that there are quite some other patches I don't understand
<dholbach> minghua: are the people who wrote those patches all in the list you CCed in your mail?
<minghua> dholbach: but sure, I'll have the feisty freeze dates in mind
<minghua> dholbach: yes they are
<dholbach> Ok - if you follow up to the mail and ask for help with merging the patch then that should be cool
<dholbach> I'd prefer to get it done soon
<minghua> dholbach: I remember hearing on #ubuntu-devel about the amd64 patch in scim, but forgot by whom
<dholbach> so if problems creep up, we can eliminate them quickly before any freezes hit in
<dholbach> hm, I just patched it once to include some other icon, but dropped the patch again
<dholbach> so that's not much I know about scim ;-)
<minghua> dholbach: sure, does end of year sounds early enough for you?
<dholbach> that's cool
<dholbach> I just didn't want it to wait on something happening in Debian, as it's frozen now and might take longer to be accepted there
<dholbach> thanks a lot for working on this.
<minghua> of course, I know how long a package can wait in NEW :-)
<dholbach> right :-)
<Adri2000> if upstream provides only a .tar.bz2, I have to repack it?
<minghua> does anybody know who are the editors of "Behind Ubuntu"?
<Hobbsee> as in the people interviews?
<minghua> yes, and I also what to know the webmasters
<Admiral_Chicago> Andreas Brunner  Eva Drud  Kenny Duffus Stefan Kohler Charlotte Nielsen  Christophe Sauthier and others
<minghua> as the Chinese translations seem to be 404 now
<Admiral_Chicago> according to the web page
<Hobbsee> seaLne: is one
<Hobbsee> dont know the irc nicks of the others
<minghua> oh I missed the link to the team
<minghua> thanks Admiral_Chicago
<seaLne> minghua: lo
<minghua> Hi seaLne.  First thanks for those interviews which I very much enjoy.  I wonder if you can fix the links to the Chinese translations (they are 404 now), or should I write an email to the team address?
<seaLne> minghua: yeah i've been meaning to remove those links, the translations disapeared when they redid their website
<seaLne> which was a pity
* proppy hugs dholbach
* dholbach hugs proppy back
<AnAnt> seen bddebian
<AnAnt> what is dhelp ?
<AnAnt> nevermind
<AnAnt> I'm getting a message from pbuilder that package dhelp is not available, why is that ?
<\sh> looks like that you don't have universe repositories in your pbuilder setup
<bddebian> Heya gang
<\sh> hey barry
<bddebian> Hi Stephan
<\sh> hmmm...my LPIC-1 certification is in around 15 minutes...how nice
<\sh> I wonder when the ubuntu lpi tests are available in germany
<\sh> oh...it's already there
<bddebian> heh
<AnAnt> bddebian: hello !
<AnAnt> bddebian: hide !
<AnAnt> bddebian: ping
<bddebian> Heya AnAnt
<bddebian> AnAnt: No, to my knowledge I never built a package of the development version :-)
<AnAnt> bddebian: ok
<AnAnt> bddebian: btw, I get an error message from pbuilder that there is no candidate for dhelp package
<AnAnt> bddebian: how did you build it ?
<bddebian> dhelp?
<bddebian> Hmm, we have dhelp afaik
<bddebian> Is it a version issue?
<AnAnt> nope
<sistpoty|uni> hi folks
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty|uni
<sistpoty|uni> hi bddebian
<sistpoty|uni> Zic_: just saw your comment for menareants
<Zic_> sistpoty|uni: hi :)
<sistpoty|uni> hi Zic_ ;)
<Zic_> siretart: Yes, I have many problems you see :
<sistpoty|uni> Zic_: what's the exact state of the data-files? can we distribute these as is?
<Zic_> I've got the new package with cdbs, and I do separated package for source and data ... and server :)
<sistpoty|uni> Zic_: I saw... (btw.: the comment was from me, just in case you wonder)
<sistpoty|uni> Zic_: the packaging is really nice now imo
<Zic_> I'm asking the upstream wait :>
<sistpoty|uni> kk
<Zic_> sistpoty|uni: He doesn't really understand the question, so I told him : You think distribute Men Are Ants like this is illegal ? Or the problem of licence is other things ?
<Zic_> sistpoty|uni: He said it's ok, no problem of illegal things :>
<Zic_> sistpoty|uni: for the orig.tar.gz, I don't understand, I don't touch it, so, I re-upload an other orig.tar.gz who I'm downloading now :)
<sistpoty|uni> Zic_: the question about the data files was, if there are any data-files copied from any commercial stuff, that we couldn't distribute then (because we'd violate someone elses' license)
<sistpoty|uni> Zic_: I only found a link to a tar.bz2... is there one to a .tar.gz as well?
<sistpoty|uni> Zic_: if so, then use that very thing you downloaded without repacking it
<Zic_> sistpoty|uni: Oh, => Finally, is not legal ^^ about McGerbale (Mc Donald funny derivate) "Obelisk of the NOD" from other licenced game and Gunther music in the "Crdits" menu ...
<Zic_> He will fix that in the next release ...
<sistpoty|uni> Zic_: oh, that's bad then... we'll need to wait until that's fixed before we can upload it to ubuntu :(
<Zic_> sistpoty|uni: It's not a problem, he prefer uploading the next release any way :)
<Zic_> (the upstream)
<sistpoty|uni> Zic_: if you only downloaded a .tar.bz2, you shouldn't unpack the tar, but rather run bunzip2 and gzip -9 on it (so that the .tar is completely unchanged)
<sistpoty|uni> Zic_: ok, great
<Zic_> ah
<Zic_> sistpoty|uni: I download the "orig.tar.gz" in a directory ... with SVN ... So I make the orig.tar.gz myself ...
* siretart waves to sistpoty|uni 
<siretart> :)
<sistpoty|uni> hi siretart 
<Zic_> sistpoty|uni: Err, no, a mistake => I download a directory with SVN, so I make the orig.tar.gz myself
<sistpoty|uni> Zic_: ah, you did an svn-checkout?
<Zic_> sorry :)
<Zic_> sistpoty|uni: yes :x
<Zic_> sistpoty|uni: I do this in the moment of Men Are Ants SVN version, is the same of release version
<sistpoty|uni> Zic_: if it's the same as the release, please use the tarball that's downloadable instead.
<Zic_> sistpoty|uni: ok :)
<Zic_> sistpoty|uni: about the Failled Build, you have an idea of provenance of its ?
<sistpoty|uni> Zic_: otherwise you should change the version of the package to s.th. like 0.3.3+svnYYYYMMDD-0ubuntu1 (if it was checked out later then the 0.3.3 release), to make it clear that it is based on svn
<Zic_> sistpoty|uni: Hmm, I will take the tar.gz release so :)
<sistpoty|uni> Zic_: for the build, I guess you removed the configure file (maybe through make distclean or s.th.), but need it for building
<Zic_> sistpoty|uni: Else, you speak about a tar.bz2 "I only found a link to a tar.bz2... is there one to a .tar.gz as well?" I don't understand your sentence ...
<sistpoty|uni> Zic_: the download page of men are ants
<sistpoty|uni> Zic_: what can you download there?
<Zic_> sistpoty|uni: err ... I don't remove the command of clean this time, beacause I use cdbs and the rules is very little :>
<Zic_> ah, wait :>
<Zic_> https://gna.org/projects/menareants#options
<Zic_> :)
<Zic_> But, in this repository, their is no .gz or .bz2 files ...
<Zic_> only the SVN
<sistpoty|uni> Zic_: I used the page you refer to in debian/copyright, there was a link to a .tar.bz2 ;)
<Zic_> sistpoty|uni: I have told the upstream for he will make a tar.gz, It's more simple :>
<Zic_> a tar.gz of 0.3.3 of course
<sistpoty|uni> Zic_: yay, great :)
<Zic_> so, for the configure file, what can I do to resolve the problem of building ?
<sistpoty|uni> Zic_: sorry, don't have a clue right now (and since I'm at university right now, I can't testbuild to see where it's coming from)
<Zic_> ok :)
<Zic_> Now I can do this : Upload a "good" orig.tar.gz in provenance of upstream, any other things in waiting a solution for the building ?
<sistpoty|uni> Zic_: you could ask if s.o. else would like to look at the build problem in the meantime ;)
<Zic_> if you want, upload 34mo in revu is long anyway :>
<Zic_> sistpoty|uni: for the debian/copyright, I don't modify anything, We will see it on the next release ...
<sistpoty|uni> Zic_: ok, please also add a comment to revu stating that we'll need to wait for the next release
* sistpoty|uni is afk for a few minutes now
<Zic_> ok :) thanks, I will go to a little moment, so I wish you a good evening :)
<Adri2000> anyone has a quick tar command line to repack a tar.bz2 to tar.gz?
<kallewoof> bunzip2 foo.tar.bz2 && gzip foo.tar
<sistpoty|uni> Adri2000: if you need to repack to make an orig.tar.gz, you should use gzip -9 (for better compression)
<Adri2000> ok, thanks
<vil> ademan: ping
<crimsun_> in order to speed the SRU for #19482 along, will five MOTU please test speex in edgy-proposed?
<crimsun_> we really should discuss this at the MOTU meeting, too
<ajmitch> hi
<crimsun_> 'lo ajmitch 
<kallewoof> Is there anyone around who'
<kallewoof> +d be willing to look at a REVU package? (synchroedit -- there are two of them, actually)
<ademan> vil: pong
<vil> ademan: hi, I would like to talk about the speed problems, do you have a  few minutes?
* proppy hugs dh
<proppy> oups not here
<ademan> vil: sure i'm a bit sleepy but i'll do my best
<crimsun_> kallewoof: urls/upids, please
<ademan> it's nothing new, eclipse has always been slow for me, though i was suprised, i tried to change over from the GNU java to the sun JRE
<ademan> which is supposed to yield a huge speed benefit
<ademan> so i'm a bit confused
* siretart hopes that currently it isn't currently a too bad idea to upgrade to feisty for and raid+lvm system...
<kallewoof> crimsun_: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3768
<kallewoof> crimsun_: I presume that's what you mean. :)
<crimsun_> yes
<vil> ademan: could you please send me a tarball containing your c test-project so that I test it on the same setup?
<ademan> sure, it's c++ and ugly code right now but sure
<ademan> you want it as an email attachment or over IRC?
<vil> i don't want to see any confidential stuff ;), i just don't use cdt, so i don't know how to use it
<somerville32> crimsun_: I need your help in a bit. I'm having trouble getting ${python:Depends} to be replaced.
<vil> upt to you
<ademan> vil: well i think after seeing the code in it's current state is enough to convince anyone not to steal from it :-)
<ademan> and i
<ademan> 'll email it
<crimsun_> kallewoof: 1) Please target feisty as the distribution, not edgy. 2) debian/init.d needs to create /var/run as necessary.
<kallewoof> *fixes*
<ademan> There you go vil
<vil> ok, let me see
<kallewoof> crimsun_: In a roundabout way, it is creating the /var/run stuff, but it's happening in the /usr/sbin/synchroedit-exec script, not in the init.d script. Should it be in init.d directly?
<crimsun_> kallewoof: yes.
<kallewoof> Alright. The reason it's in a separate script is because I'm grabbing the PID via $$. I'll have to figure out another solution. Thanks for the feedback!
<ademan> vil: it probably won't compile unless you've got the libsdl-dev packages among other things, so don't worry about making it compile, but instead go into mgine/includes/mgine/Graphics.h and type Graphics::  after the second : it should seem to lock up for a minute, then a sort of tooltip will pop up with the class Graphics' members
<vil> ademan: seems that i forgot c++ completely, where am i supposed to write the Graphics:: in that file?
<vil> i don't get the tooltip
<fernando> crimsun_: can you to review again? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3591 thank you
<ademan> vil: hrm then try it within Graphics.cpp within one of the functions
<crimsun_> fernando: 
<crimsun_>   mrbayes_3.1.2-0ubuntu1_source.changes: done.
<crimsun_> Successfully uploaded packages.
<crimsun_> fernando: thanks for your work!
<fernando> crimsun_: thank you a million
<vil> ademan: ok, now i get it. there was a small problem with -I pointing to your home
<vil> I'll play with it for a while to see, if there is a problem or if it is a feature
<ademan> oh the -I was because it's a library and eventually everything in mgine/include  is going into /usr/include, so by adding that path to -I i was able to use #include <>  rather than #include ""
<bddebian> I give up on this stupid libparagui package :'-(
<sistpoty|uni> bddebian: what's wrong with it?
<crimsun_> he keeps poking it with the wrong end of the stick.
<sistpoty|uni> hehe
<joejaxx> anyone know of a way to record a movie of what is happening on the desktop?
<mr_pouit> with istanbul ?
<joejaxx> sort of like import from imagemagick
<joejaxx> except for movies
<bddebian> sistpoty|uni: Stupid shlibs stuff still :-(
<cbx33> joejaxx, xvidcap
<joejaxx> mr_pouit: i will have to try that
<joejaxx> cbx33: ok
<cbx33> talking of which why isn't that in the repos yet?
<cbx33> ;)
<cbx33> oh it seems it is now
<cbx33> sorry wasn't in dapper
<cbx33> joejaxx, xvidcap is very easy to use ;)
<Adri2000> whow, updating a package where upstream provides a debian/ dir, the diff.gz is horrible to read
<cbx33> hehe
<sistpoty|uni> bddebian: but iirc, you were quite close with the last package on revu, weren't you?
* cbx33 hugs bddebian 
<bddebian> sistpoty|uni: I thought so
<sistpoty|uni> bddebian: ... but?
<crippledcanary> could anyone with an opinion have a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3752 for me?
<vil> ademan: did you try to run it with that sun java?
<joejaxx> cbx33: alright thanks :)
<bddebian> sistpoty|uni: I changed the packagename to libparagui-1.1-8 and now I get:
<bddebian> bdefreese@bdubuntu1:~/feisty/libparagui$ linda ../../pbuild-feisty/result/libparagui-1.1-8_1.1.8-0ubuntu1_i386.deb
<bddebian> W: libparagui-1.1-8; The library libparagui is not in a shlibs file.
<Adri2000> crippledcanary: debian/dirs is probably useless
<vil> ademan: with gcj the delay of the tooltip is about 5 secs here, with sun it is about a sec
<Adri2000> crippledcanary: there are three extra blank lines at the end of the copyright file, you can remove them ;-)
<joejaxx> cbx33: it does not look like it is in there now either
<sistpoty|uni> bddebian: imo you should just remove debian/libparagui1.1.shlibs, dh_makeshlibs should create a valid one for you
<cbx33> pete@ubunt:~$ apt-cache search xvidcap
<bddebian> Hmm
<cbx33> xvidcap - Screen video capture for X
<cbx33> no?
<cbx33> if not get the deb from sourceforge....works fine
<bddebian> sistpoty|uni: But what about the packagename?  Should it be libparagui1.1 or libparagui-1.1?  The stable one is libparagui1.1
<bddebian> Err 1.0
* sistpoty|uni looks at the library packaging guide
<siretart> sistpoty|uni: you are still at uni?
<bddebian> huhu siretart ;-)
<bddebian> BTW, anyone know of any issues with libgnomevfs2-dev in feisty?
<sistpoty|uni> siretart: yes... still fighting with the vhdl-interpreter :(
<sistpoty|uni> bddebian: http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html, point 4 should give you a clue, hopefully
<joejaxx> cbx33: You have searched for packages that names contain xvidcap in distribution edgy, all sections, and all architectures.
<joejaxx> Can't find that package, at least not in that distribution and on that architecture.
<sistpoty|uni> bddebian: sorry, I cannot testbuild anything here at uni...
<joejaxx> :P
<joejaxx> cbx33: i will sf.net it
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> hang on though
<joejaxx> ok
<sistpoty|uni> bddebian: chapter 5/point 3 actually ;)
<bddebian> :)
<siretart> heyho bddebian 
<crippledcanary> Adri2000: So it's quite Ok then.
<Adri2000> crippledcanary: just looking quickly at the diff.gz, yes :)
<crippledcanary> It's my first "real" .deb so thats good to hear.
<bddebian> So according to that libparagui-1.1-8 should be correct afaict
<sistpoty|uni> bddebian: I guess so
<bddebian> Well SONAME is libparagui-1.1.so.8
<sistpoty|uni> correct then :)
<bddebian> Where should dh_makeshlibs go?
<sistpoty|uni> bddebian: imo right there, where it's in the last revu upload
<bddebian> Oh, hehe
<bddebian> Frickin FTBFS on mysql-query-browser :-(
<siretart> ajmitch: around? I need your help as master of initramfs/mdadm guru
<ajmitch> siretart: I'm here
<ajmitch> siretart: I'm no master though :)
<siretart> ajmitch: after upgrading to feisty, mdadm barks with 'mdadm: No devices listed in conf file were found'. Do you happen to know whats going on here?
<ajmitch> it requires a valid mdadm.conf now
<ajmitch> it shouldn't need much
<ajmitch> there's also work blocked on a new udev upload
<siretart> there is a /etc/mdadm.conf in initramfs, with 4 arrays mentioning some uuids
<ajmitch> that should be enough\
<ajmitch> at times I've had to wait for everything to timeout, and to be dropped to a shell
<siretart> hm. on the 2nd look, my /dev/sd{a,b} are missing
<siretart> grr
<ajmitch> & then run the initramfs scripts
<siretart> first, I need to manage to get my computer bootet
<siretart> boot, even
<ajmitch> the busybox shell in initramfs, that is
<ajmitch> did you tell it to break, or did it timeout?
<siretart> I told it to break
<siretart> I didn't have the patience. ;)
<ajmitch> wait for it, otherwise you probably won't get udev creating /dev/sd*
<siretart> how is the ide driver called nowadays? sata_nv doesn't seem to be enough..
<ajmitch> & then run /scripts/local-top/mdadm
<siretart> ajmitch: I already upgraded. I'd like to actually use my system :)
<ajmitch> 3 minutes isn't long
<ajmitch> maybe 6 if you're using lvm on top :)
<ajmitch> it's a known problem, not being fixed until various things are in place
<siretart> I'm using root on lvm on raid
<ajmitch> like me
<siretart> hm. so how do I get my /dev/sd{a,b} back for now? ;)
<ajmitch> reboot, let it timeout?
<bddebian> How do I appropriately move the foo.so link from the foo to foo-dev package?
<siretart> mmh
<siretart> fair enough
<ajmitch> or play with udev in initramfs
* ajmitch went for the patient option :)
<ajmitch> bddebian: foo-dev.install
<ajmitch> don't match on /usr/lib/libfoo.so* in foo.install
<bddebian> ajmitch: Ahh, thanks
<siretart> ajmitch: this 'mdadm: No devices listed in conf file were found.' is still scary :/
<ajmitch> sure is :)
<siretart> ajmitch: btw, do you happen to know which bugno this is, I'd like to subscribe to that bug
<ajmitch> but that's because it's racing against udev 
<ajmitch> bug 75681
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 75681 in mdadm "initramfs script: race condition between sata and md" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/75681
<ajmitch> udev will trigger running mdadm in the future
<ajmitch> so no racing
<siretart> ah, now I see 2 new messages: "Volume group "hades_stripe" not found. So it actually found out the name of my volume group
<ajmitch> 6 minutes seems like an awfully long time when waiting for it to timeout :)
<crippledcanary> This is hopefully the last update to scribes. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3771
<siretart> ajmitch: now I got dropped to initramfs
<siretart> with 'ALERT! /dev/foo/root does not exist. Dropping to a shell!'
<siretart> :/
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> now  /scripts/local-top/mdadm
<crippledcanary> What's the procedure to get someone that has the powers to advocate for it and get it into universe?
<siretart> ah
<ajmitch> then probably  /scripts/local-top/mdadm
<ajmitch> sorry
<ajmitch> next the lvm script
<ajmitch> (assuming that the mdadm script found all raid arrays)
<siretart> cool. this brought my volumes up. how to boot now?
<ajmitch> ctrl+d
<ajmitch> it should continue to boot as normal
<crimsun_> crippledcanary: kill the trailing full stop in the one-line Description of scribes in debian/control . Also, the version should be 0.3-0ubuntu1 for the initial upload to Ubuntu.
<siretart> ajmitch: wheee! thanks a lot! :)
<ajmitch> crippledcanary: do you use dh_python, dh_pysupport, or dh_pycentral anywhere?
<ajmitch> if you don't, then ${python:Depends} is ineffectual
<crippledcanary> ajmitch: nope
<ajmitch> siretart: no problem :)
* ajmitch has to run off to work now
<zul> yeah you are going to be late...haha
<superm1> crimsun_, I finally got approval from Hauppauge to host the firmware on Ubuntu servers & Mirrors.  Should I include the text of our email conversations (with my contacts email address removed) in debian/copyright for ivtv-firmware?
<superm1> along with the OEM agreement and GPL license for the packaging of course
<siretart> yay! X11 finally! :)
<crimsun_> superm1: yes
<superm1> okay great.  I'll get this together shortly
<crimsun_> thanks!
<joejaxx> cbx33: ping
* kallewoof rubs eyes and calls it a day, night!
<ajmitch> siretart: got a box running now? :)
<siretart> ajmitch: yepp. Currently merging zsh :)
<ajmitch> excellent :)
<ajmitch> great to have you back & active
<ajmitch> do you have to defend your thesis?
<siretart> I was bitten by #68467 as well, which left me with outdated l-r-m and nvidia-glx
<siretart> bug #68467
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 68467 in update-manager "restricted component lost from sources.list during upgrade" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/68467
<bddebian> I still get the libfoo is not in shlibs file, even with dh_makeshlibs :-(
<LaserJock> bddebian: fix Universe yet? :-)
<ajmitch> siretart: ah, I did a very selective upgrade of my desktop to feisty
<ajmitch> picking & choosing packages in synaptic
<ajmitch> until it was safe to do a dist-upgrade
<siretart> this is what I tried with the upgrade to edgy
<LaserJock> I just used update-manager
<ajmitch> it worked out quite well
<LaserJock> but most of the time it was on a fresh dapper or edgy install
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I don't trust it to make wise choices in the first few weeks
<siretart> and failed miserably: http://wiki.tauware.de/blog:edgyupgrade
<ajmitch> since the archive will be in various states of brokenness
<sistpoty|uni> bddebian: have you looked inside the resulting deb (e.g. with mc) and checked if there is an shlibs file present?
<sistpoty|uni> bddebian: if not, I'd suggest you try to set debhelper to verbose and watch for the dh_makeshlibs call. maybe this will give you some hints why it doesn't create one
<bddebian> LaserJock: No :-(
<bddebian> sistpoty|uni: OK, thx
<ajmitch> the easier way being dpkg-deb -I file.deb shlibs
<ajmitch> being able to pull various bits & pieces out of the binary package is useufl
<bddebian> bdefreese@bdubuntu1:~/feisty/libparagui$ dpkg-deb -I ../../pbuild-feisty/result/libparagui-1.1-8_1.1.8-0ubuntu1_i386.deb shlibs
<bddebian> libparagui-1.1 8 libparagui-1.1-8
<LaserJock> ajmitch: niftly
<bddebian> So linda is lying? :)
* somerville32 can't think of so many bad jokes using the name "linda".
<somerville32> Wow
<somerville32> I can't type today
* somerville32 goes away.
<ajmitch> bddebian: stevenk wrote it, what do you think?
<sistpoty|uni> haha
<joejaxx> wow instanbul slows down the computer lol
<bddebian> ajmitch: Wrote what, sorry?
<ajmitch> linda
<bddebian> Ohh :-)
* sistpoty|uni heads home now
<sistpoty|uni> cya later
<bddebian> sistpoty|uni: Oh
<bddebian> Hey
<sistpoty|uni> bddebian: what?
<bddebian> If you get a free sec could you check that libparagui if you get a spare minute?
<sistpoty|uni> bddebian: did you upload it to revu?
<somerville32> 0_o
<bddebian> Aye
<LaserJock> jdong: ping
<sistpoty|uni> bddebian: I'll do that once I'm home (and probably after I ate s.th.)
<sistpoty|uni> bddebian: I just cannot build anything here at uni :(
<bddebian> sistpoty|uni: NP.  Awesome, thanks
<sistpoty|uni> l8ter folks
<ajmitch> bye sistpoty|uni 
<siretart> sistpoty|uni: gn8!
<sistpoty|uni> gn8 siretart 
<ajmitch> siretart: before you do any more merges, make sure you follow the merge policy about listing remaining ubuntu changes :)
<siretart> ajmitch: damn! you're right, I missed the summary. I'm awfully sorry :(
<siretart> hm. the next merge requires some binary NEW love first. hm
<siretart> need to poke tollef 'bout that
<bddebian> What has replaced libsvn-perl?
<crimsun_> bddebian: nothing, source is just in depwait
<bddebian> crimsun_: Ahh, thanks
<cbx33> joejaxx, pong
<vil> Ademan: ping
<vil> Ademan: wo how long does it take before the tooltip displays?
<jorgp> can someone help me with a packaging issue I can figure out
<jorgp> I am using edgy, created a pbuilder env for edgy trying to package feisty's wine for edgy
<LaserJock> jorgp: ok
<ajmitch> hey LaserJock 
<jorgp> pbuilder says it can not find libjack0.100.0-dev
<proppy> does someone use vc-bzr ?
<jorgp> but it is installed
<ajmitch> jorgp: universe may not be enabled in your pbuilder setup
<ajmitch> (assuming it's in universe)
<jorgp> ah
* ajmitch cannot recall if it is in main or not, but 0.100.0 should have been in edgy
<crimsun_> it's universe.
<ajmitch> right
<jorgp> how do I add universe to pbuilder then
<jorgp> nm
<jorgp> i figured it out
<jorgp> thanks for the help
<jorgp> guess I have to re-create my build env once I add universe
<LaserJock> hi ajmitch 
<proppy> xb
<proppy> oups
<jorgp> sorry to bother you guys, the docs where quite clear
<mr_pouit> jorgp: you only have to do pbuilder update -override-config (no need to recreate)
<jorgp> yes, I just read that in the docs
<mr_pouit> --override-config (missing hyphen, sorry)
<jorgp> thank you mr_pouit 
<mr_pouit> np :)
<twager> Anyone upgraded from Edgy to Feisty ?
<crimsun_> the dist-upgrade works fine today.
<twager> Do you need the Feisty repos in sources list ??
<LaserJock> well, that's the only way apt will know
<jorgp> is feisty working better these days?
<jorgp> last time I tried it about 1 week ago, the desktop would not fully load
<twager> Ok...Is gksudo preferable to apt-=get ?
<LaserJock> hmm, I've been running it for a while now with out any obvious problems
<LaserJock> gksudo doesn't have anything to do with apt-get
<twager> "update manager"
<jorgp> it was probably vmware then
<superm1> jorgp, there was something wrong with vmware about a week ago with segfaults, but for me at least i can still work now in it
<jorgp> gnome 2.17.2 was to unstable to even be called a release
<twager> Sorry...gksudo "update manager"
<superm1> jorgp, but things were crashing left and right in vmware a week ao
<jorgp> superm1, so you have it installed in vmware and its running fine now?
<superm1> yes
<jorgp> interesting
<superm1> i installed off the herd 1 alternate
<superm1> into a command line system
<LaserJock> twager: well, sometimes update manager can be not quite right because things are changing. dist-upgrade is probably the best bet
<Ademan> vil: sorry i was afk, it was a good 5 to 10 seconds
<Ademan> pentium M 1.99 ghz
<jorgp> superm1, so not using gnome with it?
<twager> Ok Ta...Will give it a whirl now...
<superm1> jorgp, na, the testing i'm doing doesn't need it
<superm1> i have gdm, but not a full blown gnome in it
<jorgp> superm1, makes sense.. it was the gnome desktop that I was having issues with, command line runs fine
<superm1> jorgp, yea come to think of it, when  i had those crashes a week ago, everything was crashing when i isntalled from the full disk :)
<vil> Ademan: at my laptop 1.4 celeron it is some 5 seconds
<vil> Ademan: but only when running on gcj
<vil> Ademan: sun-java makes it in 1 sec
<jorgp> superm1, I guess if all you are doing is compiling and merging then command line is all you need
<superm1> yup
<vil> Ademan: I tried gcj-native but that does not help
<vil> Ademan: so I would recommend to use sun-java to run eclipes
<vil> Ademan: if you would have problem with that i can show you how
<jorgp> I was using pbuilder to create edyg packages from feisty as to not bloat my system with devel packages
<jorgp> like wine, in feisty a depend is libstdc++-4.0-dev for some reason
<jorgp> I used gcc 4.1 with newest wine in gentoo, it runs fine
<crimsun_> LaserJock: you won't be in/around Las Vegas on 12/20, will you?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> you?
<crimsun_> ok.
<crimsun_> yes, it's a stopover to SNA
<LaserJock> darn
<LaserJock> I'll be getting ready to drive to Montana
<LaserJock> 1000 snow covered miles  \o/
<jorgp> that will be pretty
<crimsun_> finally get a mini Ubuntu vac
<LaserJock> yeah, just trying to think of ways to still do something with my parents 28.8 dialup
<superm1> mini Ubuntu vac?
<LaserJock> at least my inlaws have cable now
<jelmer> Can somebody with admin access to revu please run "gpg --recv-keys 1eef5276" on that machine?
<crimsun_> superm1: yes, a mythical vacation all things Ubuntu.
<crimsun_> er, from all ...
<superm1> ah hehe
<ajmitch> crimsun_: for more than 12 hours?
<crimsun_> ajmitch: yep, 12 hours and 1 minute.
<LaserJock> crimsun_: they actually let you leave NC?
<jelmer> hi ajmitch 
<crimsun_> LaserJock: aye. I requested this leave 10 months ago.
<ajmitch> hey jelmer 
<LaserJock> I don't see why it's so hard
<LaserJock> surely your school lets you take vacations better then that
<crimsun_> it's not the school that ties things up, it's the agencies from which I have to get clearance
<LaserJock> ah
<crimsun_> (I'm flying with my folks to Hong Kong)
<LaserJock> oh wow
<jelmer> ajmitch: Any chance you can force an update of gpg keys on the revu machine? It's using a GPG key I revoked :-/
<ajmitch> you have a new one on launchpad now?
<ajmitch> removed the old key from lp as well?
<jelmer> no, I revoked a couple of subkeys that were on a smartcard that got damaged
<ajmitch> ah
<ajmitch> it's just grabbing the keys from launchpad
<jelmer> that should work - the key listed on launchpad is correct
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> when did you revoke?
<jelmer> Uhm, like 10 minutes ago :-) Is there a refresh rate or something?
<ajmitch> nope, was just curious :)
<ajmitch> syncing now
<jelmer> ajmitch: thanks :-)
<ajmitch> jelmer: should be done now
<jelmer> ajmitch: Yep, that works. Thanks again :-)
<ajmitch> no problem
<Ademan> vil: i thought i was using sun java, i did sudo update-alternatives --config java and selected the sun java, that's all right?
<Ademan> i only needed the sun-java-jre package right?
<vil> Ademan: that updates the java, javac and so on
<vil> Ademan: however eclipse is started with a shell script, which picks one jvm for you
<Ademan> oooohhhh
<Ademan> well that might explain it
<vil> Ademan: sun-java-jre is fine
<vil> Ademan: for example you can put JAVA_HOME=/usr/lib/jvm/java-1.5.0-sun in ~/.eclipse/eclipserc
<Ademan> vil: hrm, ok, maybe we should change that, i mean, shouldn't it just use the java specified by the system?
<vil> Ademan: maybe
<Ademan> it seems reduntant for it to provide its own way to select alternative JVMs
<vil> try ask doko
<Ademan> good point
<Ademan> i see no reason to disallow overriding the jvm on the command line, but otherwise, i woudl think it'd be good to use the jvm the system says to use
<Ademan> does the eclipserc need a shabang?
<vil> nope
<Ademan> hrm, well then it seems to still be slow
<vil> what happens if you run echo $JAVA_HOME ?
<Ademan> nothing, maybe i could set $JAVA_HOME in bashrc just for a test
* jdong digs thru scrollback and mumbles 
<LaserJock> jdong: sorry, I pinged you a while back
<jdong> LaserJock: <PMS> what do you want </PMS>
<jdong> :)
<Ademan> vil: way faster, but i'd say it's still slow
<LaserJock> umm, maybe not them ;-)
<Ademan> i know it's not up to us, but i feel like the tooltip should be propagated in a different thread, so at least it doesn't lock up input
<vil> Ademan: if you are more interrested in the eclipse startup, have a look at `which eclipse`
<vil> i would guess that the hits can be disabled somehow, but i don't know where. also better to have the hints.
<vil> going to bed
<vil> see you later
<Ademan> night vil
<Ademan> good work by the way
<vil> :) thanks
<vil> did you see bug #72212 ?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 72212 in Ubuntu "Developers don't get enough thanks" [High,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72212
<vil> i don't feel like that
<Ademan> lol
<PuMpErNiCkEl> thanks++
<jdong> that bug was sweet and thoughtful at first
<jdong> but now it's just clouding my launchpad folder
<LaserJock> nah, we just get more silly bugs
<Ademan> maybe splash screens coudl have credits as well, dunno
* jdong heads out again
<Ademan> is there a character limit for the description in debian/rules ?
<LaserJock> haha, "Your X.org is not working because of the dedicated work of :"
<jdong> Ademan: it's already there. You have to press left shift, right shift, F8 F9 F10 F1 F1 F1 left CTRL, up arrow down arrow
<jdong> before the splash goes away
<jdong> then the splash list will come up
<Ademan> ah of course!
<Ademan> A B A B B C LEFT RIGHT DOWN START
<LaserJock> man, I was horrible at those
<superm1> your sure its not         B A START? :)
<LaserJock> more or less random patterns and then you have some super-duper weapon of doom
<jdong> LaserJock: I see you use my Mortal Kombat strategy
<LaserJock> my little cousins usually kick my butt
<Ademan> lol, i remember i used to have dark forces, which was basically doom with star wars sprites, and there was this one level where you got lowered into a pit with a kell dragon with only your fist, and I had to type in 'laimlame' (lucasarts i'm lame) before it killed me :-)
<LaserJock> sometimes the "hit all the buttons at once" trick works though and I laugh at them ;-)
<bddebian> Later gang
<Ademan> but yeah, back on topic, is there a character limit for descriptions in debian/rule ?
<Ademan> rules even
<LaserJock> bddebian: didn't even know you were here :/
<LaserJock> bddebian: cya
<bddebian> :)
<bddebian> I'll be back in a few ;-)
<LaserJock> Ademan: not sure, just don't push it :-)
* ajmitch ponders the mysteries of lunch
<Ademan> LaserJock: well i was thinking the end user "experience" could really benefit from some embedded xhtml with a standard set of style sheets as part of synaptic or adept
<Ademan> plus longer and more descriptive descriptions would be nice too :-)
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> gnome-app-install is supposed to be for that
<Ademan> i suppose, but how many apps does gnome-app-install really show you?
<Ademan> honestly..
<LaserJock> although i agree that package descriptions could often be improved
<Ademan> i think i installed my first app in ubuntu through it, since then, nothing, haven't opened it in months
<LaserJock> a lot if you want it too
<Ademan> how so?
<LaserJock> it's all .desktop files
<Ademan> seemed very limited
<LaserJock> well, you don't want it to be unwieldly for the user
<LaserJock> it's hard with something like 20,000 different packages to give something "easy" for the user
<LaserJock> you end up either telling them what the want or relying on them knowing a pretty good idea of what they want
<Ademan> right, but honestly i don't think i saw half of the apps that were available to me in synaptic, but maybe that's cause i didn't have universe and multivers at that point... i dunno
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> gnome-app-install isn't supposed to give you everything that's in the repos
<LaserJock> it's more under the "telling the user what they want" category
<Ademan> meh
<LaserJock> what makes it even more difficult is that we'd have to go through Debian to change the descriptions anyway
<Ademan> also, why does the user have to manually enable universe and multiverse? i would have thought that at least universe could be enabled by default if it was legal issues
<LaserJock> it's not legal
<LaserJock> and I think they will be for Feisty
<Ademan> ah
<Ademan> ok cool
<LaserJock> but it was originally designed so that users new when the crossed the "supported" vs "unsupported"  boundary
<LaserJock> I think
<Ademan> yeah, but there's so much cool stuff in those repos?
<VoX> win 36
<VoX> aw
<Ademan> ? = !
<LaserJock> Ademan: that's not the point
* VoX grabs a /
<Ademan> no i know
<LaserJock> but I totally know what you're saying
<LaserJock> virtually all users will want Universe apps I think
<LaserJock> even if they are a couple
<Ademan> one last thing, i heard someone talking about moving drivers out of kernel space and into user space, and that would eliminate the legal issues with binary blobs, and increase stability, i forgot the article, but it was very convincing
<Simon80> ademan, that's waaay far out there
<Simon80> and it would only skirt around the legal issue
<Ademan> meh, i know that in windows the user->kernel space switch in d3d significantly slowed down rendering
<Simon80> it's definitely not the technically best way to do things, or else it would have been implemented that way in the first place, for whatever driver in question
<LaserJock> for some reason I'm starting to get this "GPL is viral, in a bad way" thing
<Ademan> i think if the GPL wasn't viral linux wouldn't be half of what it is today
<LaserJock> I'm starting to suspect that I'd never want to GPL anything I work on
<Ademan> heh, i'm GPLing my game engine
<Ademan> well, when and if i ever release it
<Ademan> and if i don't get disgusted with my code halfway through it as i usually do
<LaserJock> in the my field we have a couple really good libraries that are GPL'd
<Ademan> LaserJock: what's your field?
<LaserJock> Chemistry
<Ademan> ah
<LaserJock> and I'm seeing some issues come up
<Ademan> well i guess just deal with the license
<LaserJock> because researchers can't use the GPL
<LaserJock> for whatever reason
<LaserJock> and hence can't use the library
<LaserJock> it seems sort of antiproductive
<LaserJock> so people go off and write proprietary stuff instead
<LaserJock> seems like a shame
<Ademan> researchers can't use GPL? wtf...
<Ademan> well yeah, then you "get to" reinvent the wheel
<Ademan> anyways i'm off, i gotta have lunch i'm starving
<Ademan> later all
<LaserJock> yeah, some funding agencies have requirements that wouldn't allow GPL
<LaserJock> though they aren't opposed to open source, I don' t think
<Simon80> Laserjock, it's not the FOSS community's fault such funding requirements are in place
<Simon80> .: don't blame them when such requirements hamper productivity
<LaserJock> well, I think it could be the license's fault
<LaserJock> the funding agencies requirements weren't unreasonable
<Simon80> why aren't they unreasonable?
<LaserJock> although I can't remember specifically what they were :/
<LaserJock> because it wasn't that they said you couldn't open source
<Simon80> think about it this way - someone releases a chunk of code absolutely for free, with the condition that you don't take the code for yourself without offering your users the freedoms they originally offered
<Simon80> how can you complain if you don't want to respect those conditions?
<LaserJock> because I want to allow people to use non-GPL licenses
<LaserJock> if I'm providing a library to the world I want to make sure that as many people as possible can use it
#ubuntu-motu 2006-12-15
<plugwash> afaict some funding agencies wan't stuff that they fund to be freeer than GPL, that seems perfectly reasonable to me
<LaserJock> yeah
<plugwash> or the agency doing the funding wants to use it in thier own propietry stuff
<Simon80> Laserjock, LGPL
<LaserJock> I guess my main complaint with the GPL is that on one hand it's so free, but on the other hand is so restrictive
<Simon80> for that very reason
<LaserJock> mhm
<Simon80> but the restrictiveness is what makes it so good
<LaserJock> I'm not so sure
<Simon80> the so called copyleft
<LaserJock> yeah, I can see in the beginning where copyleft was important
<Simon80> without it, people would be more apt to flip flop and release closed code
<LaserJock> I just think it's hampering a lot of growth
<Simon80> where is growth being hampered, huh?
<LaserJock> because everybody hoped on the GPL bandwagon and now places where it could grow it can't because of copyleft
<LaserJock> in this case chemical software
<Simon80> lol
<Simon80> I think your demand is unreasonable though
<Simon80> it's not growth in that area if you can't GPL it
<LaserJock> nah, I just think something like LGPL might be better
<LaserJock> why?
<Simon80> well, unless you just mean open source growth or something
<LaserJock> open source yes
<Simon80> well then
<Simon80> you could always write open source code that still falls within the funding requirements then
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> but this is what I'm saying
<Simon80> what ARE you saying?
<LaserJock> in my field we have a GPL'd library that is supposed to be the standard for chemical information transfer
<LaserJock> but many projects don't use it because it's GPL'd
<LaserJock> so the only way for it to be the standard is for *everything* else to be GPL'd
<plugwash> have you tried talking to its developers about getting it placed under a freer license?
<Simon80> mmhmm
<LaserJock> which has caused people to reject the standard and write something else that they *can* use
<Simon80> personally, I think that it's totally up to the developers whether they want more users or more GPLed software
<LaserJock> this is what I'm talking about with the GPL "bandwagon"
<LaserJock> I just think many people just GPL stuff because it's obvious
<LaserJock> but it can cause problems for other's in the future
<plugwash> yep, have you told the libraries devs this?
<plugwash> and if so how did they respond?
<Simon80> I dunno, by the time you've written some code, you've thought about the ramifications of the license
<Simon80> I definitely have.. and I would use the GPL by choice
<LaserJock> I suppose, but these are scientists we're talking about
<Simon80> indeed, who else should be more supportive of the GPL than scientists?
<LaserJock> plugwash: well, this is the debate going on right now, hence why I'm thinking about it  :-)
<LaserJock> well, they aren't
<LaserJock> scientists have some of the worst licenses I've ever seen
<Simon80> indeed
<plugwash> the GPL has its place, but libraries that are supposed to be the reference implementation of a standard are not that place
<Simon80> and they should freaking wise up, they're on the forefront of expanding human knowledge, and they should act like it, lol
<LaserJock> Simon80: yes, but it's very difficult
<Simon80> plugwash: I suppose that's a valid point, but it depends how pervasive the standard is
<Simon80> what is very difficult?
<LaserJock> I'm part of an open standards, open source, open data chemistry group
<plugwash> Simon80 if you wan't the standard to be pervasive then GPLing the standard is not the way to achive that
<Simon80> no, clearly not
<plugwash> and generally gaining wide acceptance is the whole point of standards
<Simon80> indeed
<LaserJock> well, for instance, I am relying on somebody else not publishing my research before I do
<Simon80> I have to go eat
<LaserJock> it would be difficult for me to take an "Open Chemistry" stnace
<LaserJock> *stance
<LaserJock> many scientist believe in academic-only or non-commercial licenses
<LaserJock> it's just tough
<Simon80> yeah
<LaserJock> and you are talking about their career
<Simon80> well, this is why I like the GPL, cause without it, nobody would be thinking about this
<LaserJock> I've spent 9 years in uni and I'd be pretty darn upset if somebody "stole" my work
<Simon80> I mean, i know my attitude is a bit imposing... but there are so many cases where companies GPL something cause they have to
<Simon80> Laserjock: wouldn't there be repercussions of them doing that?
<LaserJock> no
<Simon80> I mean, it would be obvious they did it
<LaserJock> not if they published it before I did
<LaserJock> it's just a race to who publishes first, the only weapon I have is ignorance on their part ;-)
<Simon80> err.. but you would have public source code history that would act as proof that it was your work
<LaserJock> wouldn't matter
<Simon80> how do you know that?
<Simon80> I don't think academics like plagiarism much
<LaserJock> because it's the paper that matters :-)
<LaserJock> well, it's not "stole" as in came into my lab and grabbed my notes
<Simon80> no, it's plagiarism
<LaserJock> but as in "I share my ongoing research with others in the field"
<LaserJock> which is equivalent to FLOSS I think
<Simon80> yeah, that's what the GPL does
<LaserJock> that would kill me
<LaserJock> I couldn't do my research if I acted that way
<LaserJock> at this point
<Simon80> well what you could do is develop in private, but publish under the GPL when you're done
<Simon80> it's only the distribution part that the license covers
<Simon80> you can do what you like with it in private
<LaserJock> sure, that's more or less what Chemistry is now
<sistpoty> hi folks
<Simon80> well then how does that sound?
<Simon80> along with this paper is some GPL code, enjoy folks
<LaserJock> well, it doesn't sound very open
<Simon80> it's better than the alternative you suggest
<Simon80> which is to not use the GPL, and reinvent the wheel
<LaserJock> well, it's the current situation
<Simon80> it's not the current situation, not how you explained it
<LaserJock> sorry, I'm sort of mixing things about
<LaserJock> for me personally I don't do anything with software
<Simon80> ah
<Simon80> .............I still have to go eat, lol
<LaserJock> I was equating FLOSS to "Open Chemistry" where scientists work as the FLOSS word does
<Simon80> oh
<Simon80> well, they do now
<Simon80> sort of
<LaserJock> in an interesting way
<Simon80> they like to charge money for papers, but otherwise, it's kind of like that
<Simon80> it SHOULD be like that
<LaserJock> anyway, you better go eat
<LaserJock> :-)
<Simon80> I mean, nothing wrong with using a bit of communism where it applies.. as in when it doesn't involve property redistribution
<Simon80> basically, information wants to be free.. it's cliche, but it's how we should view this
<LaserJock> well, if I was truly open in my research I'd never be able to graduate :-)
<Simon80> imo
<Simon80> laser, what if, like I said, you were open upon publishing it
<Simon80> but not before
<Simon80> doesn't that fix it?
<LaserJock> well, that's fine. that's really the scientific model for the most part
<Simon80> I feel very strongly about not restricting the flow of information
<LaserJock> but that doesn't bring the power of FLOSS to science
<Simon80> yes it does
<Simon80> part of it
<Simon80> there's not the same collaboration, but there is some
<LaserJock> the power would be to share ideas and develop before it gets published
<Simon80> you build on other papers
<Simon80> before of after they get published, there's still sharing going on, man
<LaserJock> yeah, some
<LaserJock> but I want it all :-)
<Simon80> so I don't care if you wait till it gets published, the issue that I care about is whether people publsih freely, that sort of thing
<LaserJock> yeah, that makes sense
<LaserJock> anyway, that was really OT
<Simon80> and I don't see yet why that couldn't include GPLed code at publish-time
<Simon80> lol
<LaserJock> well, I don't publish code so that would be a problem :-)
<LaserJock> but for people who do there are at times (apparently) when there are restrictions set by the funding agencies
<LaserJock> and while the push might need to be made to make the funding agency accept a GPL license
<LaserJock> I'm not really convinced that all code in this world needs to be GPL'd
<LaserJock> if you're out for world domination then copyleft is the way to go I guess
<LaserJock> if you're trying to be useful and let people do what they want with it then I think there are better choices
* LaserJock returns everyone to their regularly scheduled programming
* ajmitch returns
<LaserJock> wb
<ajmitch> mm, lunch :)
<ajmitch> what's up?
* ajmitch is glad it's a nice, sunny friday afternoon
<LaserJock> lunch
<ajmitch> where I get to sit in the office
<LaserJock> do you have a window?
<jelmer> So, I've got a package in universe that I need to update. What's the proper process for that (while I'm not a MOTU)?
<LaserJock> jelmer: file a bug, attach a debdiff, subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<jelmer> LaserJock: roger, thanks
<ajmitch> LaserJock: sure, the window runs the length of the office, is about 2m by 6m :)
<ajmitch> jelmer: bzr-svn?
* LaserJock cries
* Lathiat has no external windows in his office
<jelmer> ajmitch: yep
<ajmitch> jelmer: is it in debian right now?
<Lathiat> my eyes usually kill me everytime i walk outside ;p
<LaserJock> they don't let us have *any* windows with all the lasers flying about ;-)
<LaserJock> although we do get to occasionally drill holes through walls to get from one room to another
<jelmer> ajmitch: Not yet. The required Python-Subversion changes have been integrated into the Debian package as well now.
<jelmer> So it should be possible, if somebody can sponsor (my AM seems to've gone MIA)
<ajmitch> sure, I can 
<ajmitch> I offered awhile back, I can't remember what the hold up was then
<jelmer> Probably the fact that python-subversion needed patching
<ajmitch> I think so
<ajmitch> if you can give me a url to a source package, it'd be great
<ajmitch> makes things more consistent if I use the same tarball as you have
<jelmer> ajmitch: Packages are up at http://samba.org/~jelmer/bzr/
<ajmitch> I don't know how NEW processing is going in debian at the moment with etch frozen
<LaserJock> I thought it was dead
<jelmer> ajmitch: It looks quite short at the moment
<ajmitch> http://samba.org/~jelmer/bzr/bzr-svn_0.2-0ubuntu1.dsc is the ubuntu update?
<sistpoty> ajmitch: is there a way to grab a package sitting in debian's new?
<jelmer> ajmitch: Oops, yes, that's right. 
<ajmitch> sistpoty: no, due to various arcane restrictions
<ajmitch> like US export laws, iirc
<sistpoty> ah, k... because bddebian wants to bring a package in that's also sitting in new :)
<jelmer> ajmitch: Working on a Debian entry..
<ajmitch> since it's not verified by ftpmasters whether debian can distribute the package yet
<LaserJock> ajmitch: they just need an offshore account ;-)
<sistpoty> oh, seems like it's no longer in new *g*
<jelmer> ajmitch: Is it a problem if there are -ubuntuX entries in debian/changelog for a debian package?
<LaserJock> sistpoty: is it in or is it just not there?
<jelmer> or do I just need to make sure the last entry is 0.2-0 ?
<sistpoty> LaserJock: I'm just checking... *g*
<ajmitch> jelmer: last entry should be 0.2-1, I don't think they care if there are -0ubuntu1 entries
<ajmitch> I'm sure I've put packages through debian NEW with ubuntu changelog entries
<sistpoty> LaserJock: it's at least not yet on p.d.o, maybe it got rejected
<LaserJock> I thought there was something about a NEW flush in November
<ajmitch> sistpoty: package name?
<sistpoty> libparagui1.1
<ajmitch> sistpoty: was that actually uploaded to debian?
<sistpoty> ajmitch: I'd swear that I've seen it in new yesterday... and there is a bug marked as pending on the older one
<sistpoty> (wishlist bug regarding new upstream version=
<sistpoty> -=+)
<sistpoty> debian bug #316335
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 316335 in libparagui1.0-dev "libparagui1.0: new version available" [Wishlist,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/316335
<ajmitch> it'd probably get rejected for wonky shlibs :)
<superm1> is there a way to make a package use an interactive debconf frontend even if the system has debconf generally set to noninteractive?
<sistpoty> hehe, probably...
<sistpoty> ajmitch: seems very much like it... I found it in pkg-sdl svn (with wrong shlibs *g*)
<ajmitch> yay
<jelmer> ajmitch: I've uploaded 0.2-1
<sistpoty> no, rejected for debian/copyright reasons: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-sdl-maintainers/2006-December/000280.html
<LaserJock> doh
<LaserJock> and people look at me funny when I say you need to account for the licenses of *all* files
<sistpoty> hehe, I guess I'm a get debian/copyright right diehard as well
<ajmitch> you have to be
* ajmitch trusts that bzr-svn will be sane with copyright :)
<jelmer> (-:
<ajmitch> jelmer: might be good to depend on a version of python-version that has the appropriate patches
<jelmer> ajmitch: Right, I hadn't thought of that. Rebuilding...
<ajmitch> apart from that it looks fine
* ajmitch still had the previous version lying around
<jelmer> ajmitch: Fixed now, I've uploaded a new version.
<ajmitch> ok
<zul> do do do
<imbrandon> re
<sistpoty> wb imbrandon
<imbrandon> heya sistpoty 
<sistpoty> oh, nice... gborzi is now also (co)-maintaining keytouch in debian :)
<ajmitch> hey imbrandon 
<superm1> ping crimsun_ 
<superm1> imbrandon you around?
<joejaxx> what other screen video capture applications are there other than istanbul and xvidcap?
<sistpoty> ok, /me needs to go to bed now. otherwise I'll be late for lunch with siretart *g*
<sistpoty> gn8 everyone
<joejaxx> Goodnight sistpoty 
<mruiz> ping slomo
<ajmitch> mruiz: probably the wrong time of day for that
<mruiz> hello ajmitch 
<ajmitch> hello
<superm1> hey ajmitch, can i possibly steal a few minutes from you to get a revu?
<ajmitch> it may take a bit more than a minute, so I'd have to wait until later
<superm1> oh okay
<superm1> figured i'd try :)
<jdong> so it appears like Wednesday the 13th also carries some bad luck
<superm1> jdong, why is that?
<jdong> people are rarely yet many people are, getting grub error 17's with the kernel updates
<jdong> reporting that kopt's root=/dev/??? line got bumped up by 1
<jdong> i.e. sda1 -> sda2
<jdong> (Dapper users)
<jdong> and Edgy users randomly report various X failures
<jdong> both official and unofficial drivers
<jdong> including modprobe searching wrong paths, corrected with depmod -ae
<ajmitch> superm1: try again in a few hours, it's friday afternoon here
<jdong> nvidia xorg drivers totally disappearing, fixed by reinstalling nvidia-glx
<superm1> ajmitch, aye okay thanks
<theCore> anyone would like to review the patch that fix bug 57951?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 57951 in xchat "xchat crashes frequently on quit" [Undecided,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57951
<jdong> monitor out of sync, fixed with reconfiguring xorg
<superm1> jdong, why all the breakage though?
<jdong> you name it\
<superm1> this seems like very weird stuff
<jdong> superm1: I'm totally confused
<superm1> to break from a kernel update
<jdong> superm1: I've tried to track it down
<jdong> superm1: spent about 3 hours yesterday with 5 different people
<jdong> superm1: we'd figure out what happened, but have no idea why it happened
<superm1> i've done the updates on 3 of my boxes, and they went smoother then most kernel updates (no needing to redo module-assistant or anything)
<jdong> superm1: and all attempts to roll back the update, redo it and reproduce it fails
<jdong> superm1: me too
<jdong> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=1887116
<jdong> but look at that thread (the replies)
<jdong> there's an unignorable number of users experiencing some sort of problem
<jdong> and they can't all be blamed on unofficial nvidia repos
<jdong> it's left me utterly confused and completely out of ideas
<jdong> and not being able to consistently reproduce any of the symptoms is leaving me extremely frustrated
<bddebian> Heya gang
<superm1> very crazy stuff
<superm1> Hello bddebian 
<bddebian> Hi superm1
<superm1> bddebian, would you have a few moments for a revu?
<bddebian> Yeah, why not
<superm1> great: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3780
<superm1> just settled all the licensing mess today :)
<bddebian> superm1: I would add a -0ubuntu1 revision
<superm1> it was going to always be ubuntu native
<bddebian> Hmm
<superm1> the license allows for ubuntu and derivatives
<bddebian> Can it really carry a GPL license?
<superm1> the packaging
<superm1> not the firmware
<bddebian> Hrm..
<superm1> crimsun_, was fairly iffy about it to, and said as long as I got this license and approval for hosting on ubuntu servers + mirrors, then it would fall on ubuntu-archive admins final decision
<danielmarsom> have you guys considered putting webmin in the repos?
<joejaxx> danielmarsom: it was in the repos
<joejaxx> they took it out
<danielmarsom> any idea why?
<joejaxx> security concerns if i remember correctly
<danielmarsom> ok. thanks man.
<joejaxx> danielmarsom: you are most welcome
<ash211> if anyone's looking for a bug to fix, 
<ash211> bug 24981 could use an added dependency
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 24981 in anjuta "Anjuta: unfulfilled glib dependency" [Medium,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/24981
<bddebian> Ugh, anjuta
<superm1> bddebian, couple of questions about revu though - there is a Multimedia section when I look in Synaptic/Sections.  What do I set to get it placed in that?
<superm1> oh. nvm, looks like 'sound'.  a bit counter-intuitive eh? :)
<superm1> thanks for the revu bddebian 
<bddebian> I don't see one listed here: http://packages.debian.org/unstable/
<bddebian> Ohh nm :-)
<bddebian> Holy crap there are a lot of packages on REVU
<crimsun_> we should tag team them.
<bddebian> I'm looking now
<crimsun_> we'll have a revu day soonish
<bddebian> Hmm
<bddebian> I think I have all my merges done that I can do for now..
<ajmitch> bddebian: coming to the motu meeting?
<bddebian> Did we ever pick a date?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> friday
<ajmitch> (tomorrow)
<bddebian> time?
<ajmitch> 20:00UTC
<bddebian> Hmm yeah I can probably make that
<ajmitch> 9am saturday for me
<bddebian> crimsun_: So I shouldn't review until revu day?
<crimsun_> I'm going to do a few now
<ajmitch> you should review constantly
<crimsun_> well, after I get some more coffee :)
<ajmitch> revu day is just a special day where dholbach hugs everyone
<bddebian> ajmitch: So should you! ;-P
<superm1> bddebian, about that error about too long of an extended description, is that anything to really worry about?
<ajmitch> bddebian: so I should
<ajmitch> doesn't mean I will
<superm1> because its a license
<bddebian> superm1: I wouldn't worry about it too much but I'm not as anal as ajmitch :-)
<superm1> okay i'll reupload with the others fixed then.  Thanks :)
<bddebian> NP
<jmantha> hi guys
<bddebian> Heya jmantha
<bddebian> New nick? :-)
<jmantha> yeah, it's the latest craze
<bddebian> So I've noticed :)
<jmantha> cjwatson, bhale, tfheen
<bddebian> Don't make me go all bdefreese on your asses :)
<jmantha> please don't
<ajmitch> am I going to have to change as well?
<bddebian> ajmitch: Nah, you're close enough :-)
* bddebian decides to rebel
<ajmitch> too long to type
* bddebian guesses he just isn't part of the "cool Ubuntu" crowd
<ajmitch> nah, you're far beyond mere cool
<bddebian> Yeah right
* ajmitch guesses the motu meeting is just a formality to elect bddebian as ruler of the universe for life
<jmantha> mhm
<bddebian> Tell that to my wife ;-P
<jmantha> ajmitch: +1
<ajmitch> with jmantha as deputy
<jmantha> hmm, not sure about that
<bddebian> ajmitch: Oh no, jmantha would make a much better ruler
<jmantha> bah, I don't rule anything
<bddebian> You just plain RULE d00d :)
<jmantha> bddebian: I think if you look the my number of uploads you'd beg to differ
<bddebian> Bah uploads, schmuploads :-)
<ajmitch> stop arguing & get back to fixing
<jmantha> xchat-gnome just isn't quite there
<bddebian> ajmitch: I can't fix anything :-)
<crimsun_> it looks like a lot of people are getting bitten by the kernel updates
<crimsun_> of course, precisely none of them are Ubuntu's fault.
<crimsun_> -and- they're filing bugs that we have to reject.
* ajmitch has not really heard of this problem
<crimsun_> at least two alsa bug reports in LP today due to the edgy-security linux-image-foo update
<crimsun_> both of them turned out to be caused by pebkac
<bddebian> heh
<ajmitch> users...
<ajmitch> our lives would be so much better without them
<bddebian> What's with the freakin' 3 changelog entries for a single merge?
<ajmitch> I'm sorry?
<ajmitch> please explain
<bddebian> istanbul on REVU
<bddebian> there's a MoM entry + two uploader entries just for the merge
<ajmitch> right, stating that you saw this on a specific package would have helped when you asked your question
<bddebian> It was a rhetorical question :-)
<ajmitch> like many of your questions prefixed with WTF!?!
<bddebian> YEP :)
* ajmitch wonders if he can set an /ignore filter on that
<bddebian> So is this some new "policy" before I complain about more packages with Merge-o-Matic changelog entries?
<bddebian> ajmitch: You can always just ignore me
<ajmitch> tempting..
<bddebian> Go for it man
<ajmitch> the new policy is to include the remaining ubuntu changes 
<bddebian> That's not new is it?
<ajmitch> not really
<ajmitch> having multiple changelog entries like that is just wrong
<bddebian> Just making sure :-)
<ajmitch> sure, there's no way it could be uploaded as-is
<superm1> crimsun_, while on your revuing madness can you look at ivtv-firmware again?
<crimsun_> I'm in a meeting.
<superm1> ah okay
* somerville32 hugs crimsun_.
<bddebian> What is a ~git20061213 revision? (compiz on REVU)
<ajmitch> a git revision, from 20061213
<bddebian> I got that. What is git?
<ajmitch> a revision control system
<ajmitch> one that's quite popular
<jmantha> bddebian: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Git_%28software%29
<bddebian> Heh, what do I know? :-)
<somerville32> Nothing?
* somerville32 ducks.
<bddebian> somerville32: Correct
* somerville32 hugs bddebian.
<jmantha> ok, so I've got an SRU interpretation question
<jmantha> do I need to include the previous changelog in the .changes?
<jmantha> or just the one I'm adding
<jmantha> the Main SRU page has "Make sure to generate the .changes file against the base version in the relevant distribution and not against the version in -proposed or a previous version in -updates, using the -v option to dpkg-buildpackage or debuild."
<jdong> ahhhh ew ew ew stay away from me
<jdong> no, I can't help you use your "dapper-backports suppositories"
<jdong> :-/
<crimsun_> jmantha: for -proposed or -updates?
<jdong> why am I always the butt-end of all these random jokes
<crimsun_> jmantha: the statement above means you shouldn't include changelog entries from -proposed
<crimsun_> jmantha: ...a policy that doesn't seem to be enforced very strictly but policy nonetheless.
<jmantha> ah, ok. I see
<jmantha> I was a little confused
<bddebian> Should debhelper/compat be 5 before an upload?  I think so but I don't know if we "force" that now?
<crimsun_> bddebian: we haven't enforced any compat version, really.
<bddebian> Hmm
<jmantha> crimsun_: hmm, and the version has to be different between -proposed and -updates ?
<ajmitch> jmantha: for it to be accepted by soyuz, it does
<jmantha> ajmitch: so what have people been using, .1 ?
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> & then .2
<ajmitch> eg wlassistant 0.5.5-0ubuntu3.2
<ajmitch> went into -updates
<ajmitch> there doesn't appear to be a consistent numbering used
<jmantha> well I was going to upload ubuntu1 to -proposed
<jmantha> but should I do ubuntu2 or ubuntu1.1 to -updates?
<ajmitch> pitti used  gnome-netstatus 2.12.0-5ubuntu7~prop1
<ajmitch> for -proposed
<crimsun_> right, we should probably adopt ~ usage
* ajmitch is not the raging MOTU-holic, so can't really say
<jmantha> ok, so is ubuntu1~prop1 lower then ubuntu1 ?
<ajmitch> yes
<jmantha> geeze, versioning gets so ridiculous
<ajmitch> yes :)
* ajmitch wonders when crimsun_ will rename
<jmantha> he is forbidden from doing so
<ajmitch> surely not?
<jmantha> oh yeah
<crimsun_> I guess not. The trinity has spoken.
<AnAnt> bddebian: ping
<jmantha> hehe
<bddebian> AnAnt: I'm not here ;-P
<AnAnt> bddebian: ok, I was wondering are you an electronic engineer ?
<bddebian> Heh, not hardly :-)
<bddebian> I'm just a monkey
<AnAnt> ?
<bddebian> I'm not smart enough to be an EE :-)
<ajmitch> a deity like bddebian has no need of mere classifications like 'EE"
<ajmitch> you cannot put him in a box like that
<AnAnt> oh
<AnAnt> bddebian: what made you interested in tkgate?
<AnAnt> deity?
<bddebian> AnAnt: I'm just here to upload stuff. :-)
<AnAnt> ok
<bddebian> I'm in it for the money ;-P
<ajmitch> and the abuse
<ajmitch> we're all in it for the abuse
<AnAnt> bddebian: Ubuntu pays money for MOTU work ?
<ajmitch> I wish :)
<ajmitch> unless bddebian isn't telling us something?
<crimsun_> we get to bask in the glory of the trinity; that's payment enough.
<somerville32> Huzzah
<AnAnt> trinity ?
* AnAnt scratches his head
<bddebian> AnAnt: That was sarcasm (about the money) :_)
* bddebian 's sarcasm just NEVER seems to translate well
<AnAnt> btw, the best way to get a package into Ubuntu is getting it into Debian , right ?
<bddebian> AnAnt: That is ideal yes.
<AnAnt> how to do so ?
<AnAnt> btw, I see that pbuilder only takes from main repo, how can I add restricted,universe repos to pbuilder ?
<bddebian> Add them to pbuilderrc
<AnAnt> k
<bddebian> #COMPONENTS="main restricted universe multiverse"
<AnAnt> I did that yesterday
<AnAnt> but still can't see universe packages
<AnAnt> I even ran sudo pbuilder update after that
<danielmarsom> have you guys considered putting frozen-buuble 2.10 in the repos?
<crimsun_> isn't that an sk merge?
<AnAnt> bddebian: I should remove that # before COMPONENTS, right ?
<bddebian> AnAnt: Did you update sources.list in /etc/pbuilder/... ?
<bddebian> AnAnt: No, leave the #
<AnAnt> bddebian: oh, I did remove the #
<AnAnt> bddebian: there isn't a sources.list in /etc/pbuilder/
<bddebian> AnAnt: Did you update sources.list in /etc/pbuilder/apt-config/
<bddebian> Sorry, cut/paste :)
<AnAnt> bddebian: I only got 2 files in /etc/pbuilder/
<bddebian> Do you have a ~/.pbuilderrc?
<AnAnt> bddebian: buildd-config.sh  & pbuilderrc, pbuilderrc is a symlink to /etc/pbuilderrc
<AnAnt> bddebian: no, there isn't a ~/.pbuilderrc
<bddebian> Hmm
<bddebian> What the heck is going on with versioning these days?? xmms2: 0.2DrGonzo-4 :-)
<superm1> hey bddebian, after those two changes to ivtv-firmware, could you mark it as advocating?
<bddebian> superm1: Sure
<superm1> great thanks
<bddebian> Gnight gang
<crimsun_> 'night.
<jmantha> anybody running vmware player or server on edgy?
<jmantha> wow, crazy busy in here tonight
<jmantha> :-)
<SlimG2> games installed from .deb packages should go in /usr/share/games and not /usr/local/games, is this correct?
<somerville32> /usr/local/ is for like manually installed stuff
<ssam> i had a package revu, but now it has gone into debian. should i now file a bug in launchpad to have it imported? what package should i file against? 
<Hobbsee> ssam: which package?
<ssam> lybniz
<Hobbsee> !schedule
<ubotu> Ubuntu uses a strict timetable for releases, which means that sometimes newly released programs miss the timetable. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases for more. Feisty Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyReleaseSchedule
* Hobbsee wonders if the autosyncer is still on
<ssam> it is not currently in ubuntu
<Hobbsee> yes, so it will need to be synced from debian to ubuntu
<Hobbsee> apparently it is
<Hobbsee> ssam: how long was it since it hit debian?
<ssam> yesterday
<Hobbsee> right, so it should automatically sync over to feisty in the next couple of days
<Hobbsee> if it's not in feisty in a week or so, you probably want to file a bug asking for the sync from debian sid, and subscribe ubuntu-archive, and get a MOTU to ack it
<ssam> cool thanks
<Hobbsee> not a problem
* Hobbsee goes to archive htat off REVU
* proppy hugs dholbach
<Ash-Fox> Would anyone happen to know the best method for detecting in a makefile if the target platform is i386 or not (at least some documentation on this?)? (Currently I'm using a script in the middle of this to determine and execute the appropriate commands, and I don't believe that's the 'right' way todo it)
<dholbach> good morning
<Ash-Fox> Morning
<dholbach> hey Ash-Fox
<MidMark> hi
<Ash-Fox> Greetings
<MidMark> is there a way to see packages for this stupid bug that has ONE line diff and has 3 long months life?
<MidMark> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/wxwidgets2.6/+bug/59138
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 59138 in wxwidgets "amule crashes when I close a tab" [Unknown,Unknown]  
<dholbach> MidMark: what is your question exactly?
<dholbach> how to get a fix included in ubuntu?
<dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/FAQ
<MidMark> my question is: why it wasn't fixed? It's a stupid fix based in one line, so few to test, few time to revision, few time to recompile...why 3 months and still here?
<dholbach> we have procedures, if you don't stick to them and point the right people to things they will go unnoticed
<dholbach> maybe most of the developers don't use amule
<MidMark> dholbach: the bug is in the wxwidgets not amule
<MidMark> so all programs based on them have this bug including amule
<dholbach> ?
<dholbach> sorry
<dholbach> all I can say is: stick to the procedure for inclusion of patches and all will be good
<jsgotangco> ah
<MidMark> which procedure? We have a bug report, we have a package, we have a fix... next step will be build our packages by our own, but  at this point I can be the mainteiner :(
<dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/FAQ
<MidMark> dholbach: this a FAQ for a motu people, I'm not
<dholbach> no it's not
<dholbach> the first point says is a link to the procedure for getting patches included in ubuntu
<MidMark> dholbach: it's just subscribed also to sponsored bug
<MidMark> :(
<dholbach> MidMark: I don't understand what you're saying
<dholbach> LP is offline atm
<MidMark> anyway I think if a mainteiner doesn't fix this bug after a BR so detailed and a diff so short and a time so long... then your procedures have for sure something wrong...
<dholbach> thje problem is, that we don't have package maintainers
<dholbach> we maintain everything as a team
<dholbach> and there are a LOT of bugs
<dholbach> if you don't subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors to a fix it will go unnoticed
<StevenK> And if you'd prefer for us to look at things, tell us, or subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors.
<dholbach> it's unfortunate, I can see that
<dholbach> but it's really that simple
<MidMark> dholbach: 
<MidMark> [11:03]  <MidMark> dholbach: it's just subscribed also to sponsored bug
<MidMark> [11:03]  <MidMark> :(
<MidMark> [11:04]  <dholbach> MidMark: I don't understand what you're saying
<dholbach> I don't understand "it's just subscribed also to sponsored bug"
<dholbach> do you mean that 'ubuntu-universe-sponsors' is subscribed to the bug?
<MidMark> here https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-universe-sponsors/+subscribedbugs is just present the bug
<MidMark> search for 59138
<StevenK> They are, and the bug has 13 dupes.
<Ash-Fox> In debian/rules, is it possible to get execute a different set of commands depending on if the architecture is i386 or not? (If so, please tell me how :)
<StevenK> Ash-Fox: It is. But why?
<MidMark> exaclty
<MidMark> so I think we just do all the stuff in the procedure isn't?
<dholbach> MidMark: "13 Dec 06 22:15" - that's when the sponsors were subscribed
<dholbach> so give them some time to figure it out
<Ash-Fox> StevenK, because the program I'm packaging can produce much better x86 binaries, that just a 'generic' binary that's used for the other platforms.
<MidMark> I think the bug is already known because for Feisty someone has fixed it...
<Ash-Fox> (It's complicated -- but the program in question actually has m68k assembler transcoded either into x86 directly or into portable C code -- the latter being a lot slower.)
<MidMark> so now you are telling that was unknown before 13?
<StevenK> Ash-Fox: So different commands, or different CFLAGS, or what?
<Ash-Fox> StevenK, different commands to execute for building
<StevenK> (Converting m68k ASM on the fly?? Ouch.)
<MidMark> ok sorry fix for feisty was on 13
<MidMark> so I expect it veeeeery soon
<MidMark> anyway this story about sponsored bugs it's something painful...
<StevenK> Ash-Fox: It's do-able using make conditionals
<Ash-Fox> StevenK, hmm, okay. I'm going to look that up
<StevenK> Ash-Fox: The make construct you want to look up is 'ifeq'
<StevenK> Ash-Fox: Utilising $(DEB_HOST_ARCH)
<StevenK> Ash-Fox: That's enough of a hint, no? :-P
<Ash-Fox> StevenK, yep, thanks =)
<dholbach> congratulations siretart!
<siretart> thanks, dholbach :)
* dholbach hugs siretart
<dholbach> well done! :-)
* siretart hugs back
<Ash-Fox> ifeq ($(DEB_HOST_ARCH),i386) <- heh, that was easy =)
* StevenK nods.
<MidMark> also someone asked for set higest importance for this bug... if someone can do this...
<Hobbsee> which bug?
* Hobbsee tells StevenK to look at it and fix it
<StevenK> Awww, but mother....
<Hobbsee> but nothing.  go on
<Hobbsee> MidMark: that's fixed in feisty, but needed in edgy, right?
<MidMark> yes
<MidMark> 59138
<StevenK> Then it isn't just me.
<MidMark> the bug talk about itself, no need to argue anymore
<Hobbsee> StevenK: sorry?  that's a SRU, it looks like
<StevenK> Exactly, so it isn't just me that needs to be involved.
<StevenK> Besides, I'm not invoking the magical motu-sru superpowers until there is a debdiff for edgy-proposed.
<Hobbsee> !sru > MidMark 
<Hobbsee> !sru | MidMark 
<ubotu> MidMark: sru is http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
* Hobbsee wonders what this "nominate for release" button does
<MidMark> > Bugs which represent severe regressions from the previous release of Ubuntu
<Hobbsee> MidMark: you'll need to follow the SRU process now, as it's after edgy's release
<Hobbsee> yes, so it qualifies
<Hobbsee> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU
<Hobbsee> !sru is <reply> Stable Release Update informationn is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates for main and restricted, while https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU is for universe and multiverse.
<ubotu> sru is already known
<Hobbsee> !no sru is <reply> Stable Release Update informationn is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates for main and restricted, while https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU is for universe and multiverse.
<ubotu> I'll remember that, Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> !no sru is <reply> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates for main and restricted, while https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU is for universe and multiverse.
<ubotu> I'll remember that, Hobbsee
<MidMark> so I've to subscribe ubuntu-sru
<StevenK> No
<StevenK> First thing is prepare a debdiff for edgy-proposed
<StevenK> And after that is in the bug, subscribe motu-sru
* Hobbsee wonders why mlind hasnt poked you @ sru before.
<MidMark> guys if I do all these stuff I have just my packages ready and fixed
<MidMark> I'm not in motu team
<StevenK> You can get sponsored.
<MidMark> sponsored?
<StevenK> You do the work, and someone else uploads with their key
<MidMark> sponsored means money?
<StevenK> It does not
<Ash-Fox> StevenK, thankyou very much for the help. Working perfectly =)
<StevenK> Ash-Fox: No problem. :-)
<Hobbsee> wow, that's been open since november, and it's taken this long for someone to put it in the right place.
<MidMark> Hobbsee: none know all that burocracy
<Hobbsee> bah.  mlind only has 2 days ago.
* Hobbsee cant help it if bugs are lost in the ether
<StevenK> Or beg mlind to do the SRU dance.
<MidMark> yes but normal people like me, just know launchpad, I repeat, if I have to know all that procedure I can fix for me and stop to waste time in launchpad
<StevenK> I'm so not doing an SRU request.
<Hobbsee> MidMark: then you need to look somewhere and say "i've got a fix, what can i do?" - until you do that, or give it a tag of patch attached, or something that makes it distinct from all other malone bugs (how many is there again?) it likely wont be found.
<MidMark> just to know: how many people counts motu?
<dholbach> http://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-dev
<StevenK> 4,000 bugs for universe and multiverse
<MidMark> yes they are a lot
<StevenK> And 59 people
<StevenK> Do the math.
<MidMark> but hey... none of 59 uses wxwidgets in Edgy :)
<dholbach> some of the are busier with their other lives as others too
<StevenK> And we don't spend all of our time on bugs, or indeed on Ubuntu
<StevenK> Most of us spend it on IRC.
* StevenK ducks.
<MidMark> hey so stop wasting time here :)
<MidMark> [joking] 
* dholbach is still unhappy about the motu meeting on friday night but shuts up
<Hobbsee> dholbach: heh.  yes...  it's our saturday morning
<StevenK> Oh damn, what time?
<dholbach> 20 utc iirc
<MidMark> so I've to propose a debdiff for that bug or someone else will do?
<StevenK> 7am, I think
<Hobbsee> yeah, 7am
* Hobbsee responds to the bug report out of annoyance.
<Hobbsee> MidMark: you or mlind, or someone else who wants to
<Hobbsee> MidMark: FYI.  this is why it's hard to find bugs.  https://bugs.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bugs?field.searchtext=patch&orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=Unconfirmed&field.status%3Alist=Confirmed&field.status%3Alist=In+Progress&field.status%3Alist=Needs+Info&field.status%3Alist=Fix+Committed&field.assignee=&field.owner=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch=&field.has_no_package=
<Hobbsee> any of them could be like your bug.
<Hobbsee> MidMark: for ones with patches attached: 
<Hobbsee> https://bugs.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&field.status%3Alist=Unconfirmed&field.status%3Alist=Needs+Info&field.status%3Alist=Confirmed&field.status%3Alist=In+Progress&field.status%3Alist=Fix+Committed&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.owner=&field.component-empty-marker=1&field.status_upstream=&field.status_upstream-empty-marker=1&field.omit_dupes.used=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch.use
<Hobbsee> d=&field.has_patch=on&field.tag=&field.has_no_package.used=&search=Search  899
* StevenK watches IRC turn to line noise.
<Hobbsee> heh
<MidMark> Hobbsee: I have understood, wxwidgets 2.8 were planned for feisty inclusion?
<Hobbsee> no idea
<Hobbsee> depends if anyone's merged it / packaged whatever new upstream versoin there is
<MidMark> so you are all/none maintainer of all universe/multiverse packages?
<Hobbsee> MidMark: there are no maintainers of universe/multiverse packages as such.
<MidMark> yes I mean: all motu can do all and nothing... there is no guarantee of nothing...
<Hobbsee> MidMark: yes, we can all modify anything in universe.  non-MOTU's can fix packages, give debdiffs, and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors for stuff in universe, so that a MOTU can look at their debdiff, and upload it
<StevenK> MidMark: And to give you some idea, there are 9,236 source packages in Edgy in universe.
<MidMark> so 1/2 bug for every package :D
<StevenK> Which build into 15,131 binary packages
<Hobbsee> StevenK: where'd you find those numbers?
<StevenK> zgrep
* StevenK grins
<StevenK> zgrep -c Package on Sources.gz and Packages.gz for i386
<Hobbsee> ahh
<MidMark> Hobbsee: anyway debdiff is very similar (say identical) to feisty fix...
<MidMark> still one line...
<Hobbsee> MidMark: it doesnt matter, they still require SRU's.
* Hobbsee has had this argument with kopete before
* MidMark like bugs votes like kde.org
<StevenK> KDE has people *vote* on bugs?
<StevenK> Oh geez
<astharot> hello
<Hobbsee> StevenK: yes, but they do nothing.
<StevenK> Heh heh
<StevenK> KDE, the votes, or the people? 
* StevenK smirks
<Hobbsee> StevenK: well, if the dev doesnt see them, or doesnt like them, then they do nothing
* Hobbsee smacks StevenK 
<StevenK> Ow!
<Hobbsee> of course, they have proper maintainers there
<MidMark> anyway guys I understood all yours argue, I've listen all and took very seriously, but I don't like argue like: "I don't see the bug or I don't use this program then I don't want to fix it"
<MidMark> I think you have to understand that some programs are largely used by people... and wxwidgets (with amule) it is
<Hobbsee> MidMark: no one said that.
<Hobbsee> MidMark: it's not a case of no one wanting to - it's a case of no one who could upload actually *knowing* about the bug prior to 2 days ago.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: the votes do nothing.  duh
<MidMark> [10:53]  <dholbach> maybe most of the developers don't use amule
<Hobbsee> so you've interpolated that to say "so no one cares about it"
<Hobbsee> what dholbach meant was "maybe msot of hte devs dont use amule on edgy, so therefore havent seen the bug, nor been looking at the bugs for amule"
<MidMark> it can be
<MidMark> feisty has the bug too... anyway ok I'm satisfied, hope that someone produce debdiff
<MidMark> s/has/had
<Hobbsee> MidMark: you said that it didnt
<Hobbsee> and you'd better be that someone
<MidMark> I don't know even how to produce it
<Hobbsee> didnt it tell you how to, in that SRU link?
<MidMark> yes I have to read also... :)
<MidMark> understand, try, test...
<MidMark> debdiff is a cumulative patch for a source package?
<MidMark> can I write me in the changelog?
<aa_> hi, our debian maintainer was wondering how and when you sync with debian, since debian is in some kind of freeze and we were wondering if we could push a deb directly to you guys in time for feisty
<aa_> bug 42882 is the backdrop for this
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 42882 in pida "PIDA version in dapper is very old" [Medium,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42882
<aa_> edgy version is pretty recent, but I want to keep up to date for feisty
<Hobbsee> aa_: everything's still autosyncing, as far as i'm aware
<Hobbsee> aa_: there are some ubuntu changes - it will need to be looked at ,it wont be automatic
<Hobbsee> aa_: http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/p/pida/pida_0.3.1-2ubuntu2/changelog
<Hobbsee> aa_: where's the debian source for that?  
<aa_> Hobbsee: source for what, sorry I am not clever with debian stuff
<Hobbsee> aa_: source for pida.  ubuntu takes sources, not debs
<aa_> Hobbsee: oh I see
<aa_> http://download.berlios.de/pida/pida-0.4.1.tar.gz
<Hobbsee> aa_: and when will that go into debian?
<aa_> Hobbsee: but we have the same maintainer for ubuntu and debian, if that makes a difference
<aa_> Hobbsee: well debian is in freeze
<Hobbsee> when does it unfreeze?
<aa_> Shoragan: help me out here :)
<Hobbsee> heh
<aa_> Hobbsee: shorogan is our Debian maintainer
<Hobbsee> cool :)
<aa_> he was unclear on the ubuntu rules/process so we decided to join here and ask you
<Hobbsee> sounds good to me :)
<aa_> it's Friday, real work can wait til monday! Long live open source!
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> exactly!
<Shoragan> Hobbsee, if i prepare a new package, can that go into ubuntu without going through debian first?
<Hobbsee> Shoragan: sure, if you want to.  of course, it's easier if it goes thru debian
* Hobbsee wonders about just fudging the version number
<Shoragan> Hobbsee, debian is currently in freeze for the etch release, so no new upstream version right now :)
<Hobbsee> Shoragan: we've got a couple of changes in ubuntu from the debian package - seen at http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/p/pida/pida_0.3.1-2ubuntu2/changelog - if you could/want to incorporate them into your package, that would be great
<Hobbsee> Shoragan: yeah, i figured as much.
<Shoragan> Hobbsee, sure, i'll do that
<Shoragan> are there some diffs available already?
<Hobbsee> Shoragan: if you prepare a source, and put it somewhere for uploading, we can upload it to ubuntu.  we could probably stick a debian version number on it as well, so the autosyncer will just keep syncing it, if hte package is exactly the same.  *puts down the evil crackpipe*.  
<Hobbsee> as in, the patches from ubuntu?
<Shoragan> yes
<Hobbsee> Shoragan: yep.  there are for all our packages (i think)  http://patches.ubuntu.com/p/pida/
<Shoragan> ok, thanks
<Hobbsee> not a problem
<Hobbsee> Shoragan: would you be about to push that into experimental, btw?
* Hobbsee isnt that clear on debian either
<Hobbsee> (seeing as sid is frozen)
<Shoragan> Hobbsee, that would be a possibility, i'll try to get that sponsored
* Hobbsee nods
<Hobbsee> your choice of course.  but we can sync from there too.  :P
<Hobbsee> if we dont have to look, then it will stay more or less at the debian version, without needing to be looked over, as long as the autosyncer is on - that's what i'm t rying for
<Shoragan> when will the autosyncer be switched off before the release?
<Hobbsee> !release
<ubotu> Ubuntu releases a new version every 6 months. Each version is supported for 18 months to 5 years. More info at http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/releases & http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases
<Hobbsee> upstream version freeze, which is...
<Hobbsee> !schedule
<ubotu> Ubuntu uses a strict timetable for releases, which means that sometimes newly released programs miss the timetable. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases for more. Feisty Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyReleaseSchedule
<Hobbsee> feb 8
<Shoragan> not December 21st?
<Hobbsee> oops
<Hobbsee> you're right, i cant read
<Shoragan> :)
<Hobbsee> bah.  well, we can request syncs after that
<Shoragan> ok, so i'll push it to experimental, and you can pull from there
<Hobbsee> yep
<Shoragan> good
<Hobbsee> as long as i actually remember to request it
<aa_> excellent work chaps, my 7 users will be happy about that
<Hobbsee> hehe :)
<aa_> oh wait, 7 including me, so that's 6
<Hobbsee> Shoragan: unless it's easier to upload the same source that you're about to put in debian
<Shoragan> i'll have to look at the needed changes first
<Hobbsee> yep
* Hobbsee merges sapphire
<sistpoty|uni> hi folks
<siretart> could some motu please look/sponsor the patch in bug #74133? (I'd do it myself, but I don't have a feisty chroot at hand)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 74133 in gtetrinet "[SRU]  gtetrinet crashes on first startup" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74133
<siretart> heyho sistpoty|uni :)
<sistpoty|uni> hi siretart :)
<siretart> palski: thank you for work on the sru requests. in general, could you please try to find a sponsor while the motu sru team processes your request? please don't expect the sru team members to sponsor you
<Hobbsee> hey sistpoty|uni 
<sistpoty|uni> hi Hobbsee 
<StevenK> siretart: That was my rule! :-P
<siretart> StevenK: ;)
<sistpoty|uni> hi StevenK 
<sistpoty|uni> hey \sh 
<\sh> moins
* StevenK waves
<Hobbsee> siretart: ie, you want someone to upload that debdiff to edgy proposed?
<siretart> Hobbsee: right
* ajmitch had better go to sleep
<ajmitch> so that I can get up for some meeting
<Hobbsee> yes, that would be useful...
<Hobbsee> er...i'm an idiot
<Hobbsee> siretart: where's the duncecap?
<Hobbsee> hey ubuntu_demon 
* siretart had to lookup duncecap in a dictionary ;)
<Hobbsee> siretart: the idiot-hat :P
<Hobbsee> siretart: tried to apply patch from package 1 to package 2.  it failed.
<Hobbsee> siretart: uploaded
<siretart> Hobbsee: thanks
<Hobbsee> siretart: not a problem
<Hobbsee> !bzr
<ubotu> bzr is Bazaar-NG, a decentralized revision control system designed to be easy for developers and end users alike. Decentralized revision control systems give people the ability to work over the internet using the bazaar development model.
<StevenK> siretart: I agree with you, in regards to your comment at the end of bug 68467.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 68467 in update-manager "restricted component lost from sources.list during upgrade" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/68467
<palski> siretart, Hobbsee: thank you!
<StevenK> siretart: http://wedontsleep.org/~steven/dist-u.html
<siretart> StevenK: thats a cute idea :)
<StevenK> Isn't it just. :-)
<StevenK> Means I downloaded pretty much all of Edgy in about 3 minutes.
<siretart> In the end, there should be some gui to configure your 'preferred' mirror. where 'preferred' is the fastest one, which is likely to be a custom/private one
<siretart> that gui is ideally accessible from update-manager. but I think mvo plans something like that anyway. I remember some spec about that
<zul> morning
<\sh> guys....who is doing the backports nowadays?
<Hobbsee> \sh: jdong, imbrandon, mez
<siretart> \sh: https://bugs.launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-backporters
<siretart> \sh: the ppl of that group can authorize backport requests
<palski> SRU Bug #73780 needs sponsors too, it already has three ACKs from motu-sru team
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 73780 in kdbus "[SRU]  kdbus (edgy)" [Low,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73780
<Hobbsee> palski: i'll do it
<Hobbsee> palski: done
<palski> Hobbsee: thank you :)
<Hobbsee> not a problem
<geser> Hobbsee: regarding bug #75871 please look at bug #75294
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 75871 in genpower "Please sync genpower (universe) from unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/75871
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 75294 in genpower "Please sync genpower from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/75294
<Hobbsee> geser: wah.  dupe it then, i must have checked the rest.
<Hobbsee> oh blergh
<geser> it looks like it needs a build-depend on sysvinit but I don't know if it's the right thing
<Hobbsee> it cant
<siretart> sistpoty|uni: for easier SRU bugmail filtering, I just changed all bugs from https://bugs.launchpad.net/people/motu-sru/+subscribedbugs to have a description starting with [SRU] , so that we can filter those mail easier with procmail
<sistpoty|uni> siretart: yay! thx
* proppy hugs dholbach
<\sh> I wonder why courier is appearing on the universe merges list...*hmm*
* dholbach hugs proppy back
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sistpoty|uni> hi bddebian 
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty|uni
<imbrandon> heya bddebian 
<bddebian> Hi imbrandon
<giskard> motu meeting today at 20UTC right?
<bddebian> Afaik
<sistpoty|uni> giskard: yep
<bddebian> sistpoty|uni: Did you happen to get a chance to try libparagui again?
<sistpoty|uni> bddebian: yep, saw my comments?
<bddebian> Oh no, I'll check, thanks
<sistpoty|uni> bddebian: it was rejected for unstable, due to missing debian/copyright information
<bddebian> Yeah I was just reading that, thanks.  Hmm
<bddebian> I hate dealing with licensing crap :-)
<sistpoty|uni> hehe
<sistpoty|uni> bddebian: watch out for zip file content as well ;)
<bddebian> grmbl
* Ash-Fox is absolutely baffled where they stuck the sunjava license file for the preinst script
<jdong> Ash-Fox: I think debconf is responsible for popping that up?
* kallewoof had that issue too, Ash-Fox.. In chrooted test-install it refuses to license itself. Ended up having to enter the chrooted environment and hackily mark the license as 'having been accepted' before it worked.
<bddebian> How do I do that?  Name each specific file which carries the different license?
<Ash-Fox> jdong, well, I do have access to the preinst script. It's just that I can't figure out where the license file is actually stored in the .deb file, as I'd like to use a similar popup agreement for specific package I'm packing that's full of legal issues :P
* kallewoof realizes the issue is different :) The license is in the ... *checks*
<kallewoof> control.tar.gz/templates file
<Ash-Fox> Woh.. what the heck..
<Czessi> Hi, a MOTU has time for a 2nd review? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3765
<Ash-Fox> kallewoof, thankyou very much
<kallewoof> NP. :)
<Toadstool> good morning !
<bddebian> Toadstool!!
<Toadstool> hey bddebian 
<sistpoty|uni> bddebian: yep, just name each file with a different license (and the license as well)
<sistpoty|uni> hi Toadstool 
<Toadstool> there's a motu meeting today, right?
<Toadstool> hi sistpoty|uni 
<sistpoty|uni> Toadstool: right
<Toadstool> ok, i'm at work but i'll try to take a look at what's going from time to time then :)
<Toadstool> +on
<sistpoty|uni> :)
<bddebian> sistpoty|uni: Should I even do this since I have different package naming?
<sistpoty|uni> bddebian: hm?
<sistpoty|uni> bddebian: in what way is the package name related to debian/copyright?
<cbx33> bddebian: not still the same pacakge?
<bddebian> sistpoty|uni: It's not, I mean my package name will be different that Debians
<nixternal> hrmm..for a sync request, ubuntu sponsors for universe correct? why is Hobbsee's email address listed in there? 
<Toadstool> bddebian: you're packaging something which is already in Debian?
<bddebian> Toadstool: It's in the Debian NEW queue apparently
<sistpoty|uni> bddebian: maybe you should use the same source-package name as debian does (but the binary package name should stay that way)
<bddebian> sistpoty|uni: Hmm, OK
* Toadstool reads the backlog to avoid asking dumb questions
<sistpoty|uni> bddebian: I guess this could've been another point (wrong shlibs name), why it was rejected from debian g
<nixternal> bug 75909
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 75909 in comix "[Sync Request]  Sync comix (3.6-1) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/75909
<geser> nixternal: comix 3.6-1 is already in feisty
<nixternal> hrmm
<nixternal> i am a retard
* nixternal goes and rejects his own stupidity :)
<Admiral_Chicago> i'll mark that down nixternal
<geser> nixternal: I assume u-u-s has hobbsee's e-mail because there is no ML for u-u-s yet and the e-mails need to go somewhere
<nixternal> ahh, just never noticed it before i guess
<geser> me neither. I just looked because you mentioned it
<nixternal> i should have known, i mean i seen that it was in edgy already (backported) and even seen the 3.6.1 changelog in changelog.ubuntu.com
<nixternal> 1 of 2 things, either not enough caffeine this morning, or possibly to much already
<nixternal> bug 75910
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 75910 in knemo "[Feisty MoM]  Merge knemo (0.4.6-1)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/75910
<bddebian> nixternal: What about it? :-)
<bddebian> nixternal: Can you please check your qucs on REVU also.  I think it's still got Edgy in there?
<\sh> ok time to stop business and travel home
<bddebian> Later \sh
<\sh> will be home around 20 utc
<nixternal> bddebian: you can toss out the qucs on revu is you would like
<nixternal> that is quite old
<bddebian> nixternal: What about schafkopf or whatever the heck that is? :-)
<nixternal> toss it..all them old ones can get thrown out
<sistpoty|uni> siretart: still at uni?
<nixternal> if there are new ones, i will work on them later...that schafkopf is some sort of favorite card game..never heard of it myself
<sistpoty|uni> i can play schafkopf :)
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> i could probably learn it quicker than finding this "thomas the train" lego kit for my nephew
<bddebian> heh
<sistpoty|uni> g
<nixternal> amazon is holding the toy hostage. $100 on amazon, and when it is in stock at local stores, $30
<nixternal> argh
<elmargol> is there a way so see every package who depends on a specific package?
<imbrandon> rdepends
<nixternal> wasabi imbrandon 
<imbrandon> heya
<nixternal> hows work?
<imbrandon> busy as hell today
<nixternal> seems you have been busy as hell..i haven't seen a dew run in a while ;p
<imbrandon> heh
<elmargol> thx
<palski> crimsun_: ping
<bddebian> nixternal: koverartist, kxstitch? :-)
<nixternal> rm -rf um
<nixternal> those were all edgy packages i believe...or they can stay and i can put some newones up for feisty, unless they can go through a sync or merge
<siretart> sistpoty|uni: I just returned home, and left a few minutes before you pinged me :)
<sistpoty|uni> siretart: ah... was just needing a short break, that's why I asked
<zorglu_> q. in the debian/control file, there is a line called "section:", what are the possible value of this field ? is there some keyword i could use to get the possible alternatives ?
<Adri2000> I'm updating a package to the last upstream version (grisbi), because it seems a bit abandoned in debian... there are some minor bugs (such as typo in the description) reported in the debian bts, can I fix them while updating the package to the last upstream version?
<Adri2000> zorglu_: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-archive.html#s-subsections
<zorglu_> thanks
<zorglu_> a package name is not allowed to contains a '_' ?
<zorglu_> like foo_bar.deb ?
<Adri2000> zorglu_: I don't think so, never seen such a package name
<zorglu_> ok, what is the standard procedure in this case ? to replace it by a '-' ?
<siretart> zorglu_: no. it is not allowed. the '_' is reserved for separating package name, revision and architecture
<siretart> zorglu_: wpa_supplicant e.g. is named 'wpasupplicant'
<zorglu_> ok thanks 
<siretart> using '-' and '+' is fine, however. consider this: dvd+rw-tools
<zorglu_> ok so '-' will do :)
<dholbach> mruiz: after you installed pbuilder you can change its configuration to use universe also - that's in /etc/pbuilderrc, then you run sudo pbuilder create
<dholbach> mruiz: that should basically be it
<dholbach> mruiz: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto has more information about that
<mruiz> great dholbach 
<dholbach> mruiz: but of course, feel free to ask whenever you need anything
<dholbach> mruiz: you don't have to use it always - it's just great if you use it if you package something new, because it will help you to determine if the package builds in a minimal environment
<mruiz> dholbach: you told me about Merge & Sync... I'm reading MOTU school tutorial about M&S  -> "You'll also find it useful to go ahead and create a scratch directory (like /tmp/merges/) and install the 'build-essential', 'devscripts', 'cdbs', 'dpatch', and 'fakeroot' packages using apt-get/aptitude/dselect/synaptic/adept." No problem with Ubuntu version that I use?
<dholbach> it's of course better to use feisty and be able to test merges in a real life example
<dholbach> but you can in some cases do that in a chroot also
<dholbach> and in the beginning your uploads will get reviewed, so there wouldn't be much harm
<dholbach> still it's better to work with the development version - but that's a decision I leave up to you
<Zic_> sistpoty|uni: hi :) Apparently, you are in your university so you can't help me with menareants :p If you can take a look on its when you can, beacause I'm not always here when you are in your home :>
<zul>  meeting in 2 hours isnt it?
<dholbach> zul: yes
<Gloubiboulga> I won't be able to make it finally :(
<siretart> do we have a channel for desktop effects? /me just tries out compiz on his fresh feisty workstation :)
<jdong> #ubuntu-xgl
<jdong> though it's not really official
<jdong> it's mostly the beryl guys hanging out there
<jdong> though quite helpful nontheless
<crimsun_> palski: contentless pong
<palski> crimsun_: Hi, I just wanted to make sure that did you mean 0.8.3-0ubuntu3.1~proposed1 or 0.8.3-0ubuntu3~proposed1
<palski> talking about the SRU
<crimsun_> palski: what's the current version?
<crimsun_> (in the release pocket)
<palski> 0.8.3-0ubuntu3
<crimsun_> then 0.8.3-0ubuntu3.1~proposed1
<palski> ok, thanks
<crimsun_> 0.8.3-0ubuntu3~proposed1 would be less than 0.8.3-0ubuntu3, which is in the repos.
<palski> i see
<crimsun_> you can always use dpkg --compare-versions and check the return value
<kallewoof> crimsun_: *waves* I think I've fixed the things you mentioned yesterday. I was unsure if I should wait around for you or if I should ask just anyone to re-check the REVU submission. 
<crimsun_> kallewoof: any other MOTU can
<kallewoof> crimsun_: Cool.
* kallewoof waves at MOTUs. Anyone feel like reviewing? :D http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3784
<zorglu_> q. for a non official tool, what is the proper /bin directory ? /usr/bin ? /usr/local/bin ?
* sistpoty|uni plays "find the segfault"
<sistpoty|uni> arg! it's somewhere in between 30000 lines of code
<mruiz> dholbach: are you using Feisty?
<superm1> crimsun_, would you have a moment to ack the ivtv-firmware on Revu?
<imbrandon> sistpoty|uni: actualy its probably inbetween 2 lines of code but you just havent narrowed it down that far yet
* imbrandon ducks
<dholbach> mruiz: yes
<dholbach> mruiz: i think most of the people use it here
<sistpoty|uni> imbrandon: properly it's even only 1 line, but I haven't found that one yet :(
<imbrandon> sistpoty|uni: :)
<mruiz> dholbach: what is the best way to upgrade my Edgy?
<crimsun_> zorglu_: anywhere you'd like. In terms of debs, it shouldn't touch /usr/local.
<zorglu_> crimsun_: ok thanks
<crimsun_> superm1: I'd look at the last lintian warning, but otherwise it looks ok
<jdong> crimsun_: you know if there's a reason the DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=risky for ffmpeg doesn't --enable-x264?
<superm1> crimsun_, that warning is because the license is so lengthy
<superm1> from what i gather
<superm1> i dont really know how to get around it
<dholbach> mruiz: probably   "gksu update-manager -c -d"  if mvo enabled it already
<crimsun_> superm1: the b-d-i one?
<crimsun_> jdong: note the source component.
<superm1> b-d?
<crimsun_> jdong: it would be madness to ship x264 support in ffmpeg -and- in x264. The former lies in universe, the latter, in multiverse. What would the point of the latter be?
<jdong> crimsun_: DBO=risky turns on several multiverse flags anyway
<jdong> crimsun_: like lame encoding, xvid, etc
<jdong> just not x264
<crimsun_> right, if you want it, please submit that bug 
<jdong> crimsun_: ffmpeg can transcode a divx AVI to a h264+AAC mp4 in one fell swoop
<jdong> that's the main difference for me
<crimsun_> it won't make any difference anyway, since we don't enable it
<jdong> crimsun_: it makes it easier for those who rebuild their ffmpeg in that way :)
<superm1> crimsun_, the one i knew about was : W: ivtv-firmware: too-long-extended-description-in-templates ivtv/present-hauppauge-eu-v1
<jdong> crimsun_: also, would it be possible to have a ffmpeg-multiverse variant too?
<crimsun_> superm1: no, "W: ivtv-firmware source: build-depends-without-arch-dep"
<jdong> have the two mutually conflict each other
<crimsun_> jdong: oh god.
<jdong> :(
<jdong> the ability for ffmpeg to deal with multiverse codecs is indispensible to video player owners
<jdong> crimsun_: for example, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/iPodVideoEncoding
<crimsun_> and it would completely skew what slomo and siretart worked so hard to do in breezy.
<jdong> I'd like that to go away
<jdong> namely the "sudo checkinstall -D make install" part :D
<crimsun_> having multiple copies of the same source is -insane-
<jdong> I'm sorry to hear that
<crimsun_> ffmpeg will likely see another CVE
<jdong> why are we so insistent on ffmpeg in universe though?
<superm1> crimsun_, oh i didn't notice that... i'll get that fixed
<siretart> jdong: I'm working on getting ffmpeg in main. 
<crimsun_> jdong: because a fair number of apps are useless without it.
<jdong> Novell/Redhat seem to believe all the mpeg2+ codecs are under patent lockdown anyway :(
<jdong> so does ffmpeg with its ability to decode mpeg4 belong in universe/main?
<crimsun_> if it does, likely no.
<siretart> jdong: what do you want to do with an multiverse-ffmpeg anyway? link it to existing applications? or link it to other multiverse applications? or 'just' use the command line utilities?
<jdong> siretart: to use the commandline
<jdong> siretart: for encoding video to the media player I'm getting soon
<jdong> it's either a single ffmpeg command or a series of 5-6 other commands with an alternate method
<jdong> I'd rather have the former
<jdong> and not by our official howto which recommends checkinstallling a package
<siretart> I could imagine a source package in multiverse, which downloads the 'main' source package, applies some patches to it, and install the ffmpeg binaries in a debian binary package
<jdong> that'd be cool
<siretart> obviously, this won't work if you want to enable existing applications to use the new codecs. for the commandline utilities, this would/could work.
<jdong> btw, http://en.opensuse.org/Restricted_Formats
<jdong> for your viewing pleasure....
<jdong> "DVDs are encoded in mpeg2-video, for which there is no support in the current SUSE Linux OSS release, due to the mpeg2 format being patent-encumbered by its owners, Moving Picture Experts Group (MPEG).The patent holder is unwilling to offer an unrestricted patent grant, as required by the GPL. "
<jdong> they seem to strongly believe all the mpeg* video codecs are patent-protected
<jdong> SUSE's xine that ships with the OS is stripped of all decoding abilities except raw AVI's, vorbis, and theora
<jdong> not even their non-OSS component opens that up
<jdong> it only adds MP3 support via realplayer
<siretart> jdong: hm. ubuntu does not seem to have problems with shipping mpeg2 DECODERS. up to now, only encoders of the mpeg variant codecs are denied
<jdong> siretart: right, that's what we've been doing at least... though Novell camp seems to think very differently?
<jdong> perhaps it's a USA-specific thing?
<crimsun_> fwiw, novell is likely correct in the usa.
<siretart> jdong: I think that there is big confusion in the workd
<siretart> world
<jdong> crimsun_: I agree with that
<siretart> consider the patents.txt in ffmpeg. there have been some codecs already disabled
<siretart> in the ffmpeg source package, that is
<jdong> hmm
* sistpoty|uni heads home
<sistpoty|uni> later
<crimsun_> cya sistpoty|uni 
<plugwash> redhat and suse are more paranoid than most
<plugwash> probablly understandable given thier corporate nature
<jdong> plugwash: that's because they do serious linux business in the US?
<plugwash> probablly
<jdong> plugwash: and they'd be most likely targeted by legal action...
<jdong> plugwash: in contrast MEPIS in the US just blatantly ships every restricted thing possible
<jdong> including w32codecs
<jdong> they just simply added PLF repos to their product
<plugwash> yep
<AnAnt> anyone knows what libieee.a is for ?
<crimsun_> presuming it's from libieee1284-3-dev ...
<Adri2000> I'm updating a package, should I update the version of debhelper (in depends) ?
<Adri2000> currently it's debhelper (>> 3.0.0)
<crimsun_> if you have a reason to, sure
<zorglu_> jdong: just reading the page, i never though about the kernel module with propriatary license. but it is clearly against gpl :) aka illegal
<crimsun_> if it's a merge from Debian, it'll be kinda pointless
<zorglu_> fun that i never realized that
<crimsun_> if it's your own package, then making it standards-compliant to the latest policy is a Good Thing
<jdong> zorglu_: that's still pretty under debate right now :)
<Adri2000> crimsun_: the package is grisbi, and it seems abandoned in debian, so I'm updating it to the last upstream version
<jdong> zorglu_: but yeah, they tend to set the standards on legal strictness
<zorglu_> jdong: well i really dont see what kind of debate could happen. gpl is 'if you link against code in gpl, the linked code become gpl' so if you either it is illegal to link or the propriatary driver should be gpled.
<ajmitch> morning
<crimsun_> 'morning ajmitch 
<zorglu_> jdong: i dont say we should stop doing it :) but this is clearly illegal :) exactly like the mp3 thing :)
<gnomefreak> morning ajmitch 
<jdong> zorglu_: linus posted something about it... how he doesn't believe non-GPL module == derived_work
<ctrlsoft> 'morning ajmitch
<Adri2000> crimsun_: what should I do with that? I already updated standards-version (was 3.5.x), is it right?
<zorglu_> jdong: if so, there is no difference between gpl and lgpl ?
<crimsun_> Adri2000: to >= 3.7.2 ?
<jdong> zorglu_: IANAL, IANAKD
<Adri2000> crimsun_: yep 3.7.2
<crimsun_> Adri2000: just check Policy and make sure it's compliant
<Adri2000> ok
<Adri2000> hmm, there is no debian/compat
<Adri2000> and W: grisbi source: package-uses-deprecated-debhelper-compat-version 3
<crimsun_> 'debhelper (>> 3.0.0)' would do that, yes
<crimsun_> (also check debian/rules)
<Adri2000> export DH_COMPAT=3 <-- I have to replace that with debian/compat right?
<crimsun_> either make sure it matches what's in debian/co{mpat,ntrol}, or remove it 
<Adri2000> there is no debian/compat and debian/control says debhelper >> 3.0.0
<superm1> crimsun_, I re-uploaded with that lintian warning resolved
<crimsun_> if you're going to update it to 5, then just remove it completely, adjust debian/control, and echo 5>>debian/compat
<Adri2000> ok
<crimsun_> > , rather. Having trouble typing.
<zorglu_> jdong: http://www.atnf.csiro.au/people/rgooch/linux/docs/licensing.txt <- linus on the gpl and linking. he is clearly no lawer :)
<jdong> zorglu_:  :)
<crimsun_> superm1: 
<crimsun_>   ivtv-firmware_0.20061007_source.changes: done.
<crimsun_> Successfully uploaded packages.
<crimsun_> superm1: thanks for your work!
<bddebian> w00t, crimsun_ is DA MAN
<crimsun_> bddebian: not nearly a fourth of what you are!
<siretart> jdong: crimsun_: slomo: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionFFmpeg <- please read and comment on it
* siretart dinner
<superm1> thanks crimsun_ awesome.  Now just cross my fingers that archive admins like the licensing :)
<minghua> meeting in half an hour, right?
<crimsun_> minghua: yes
<minghua> crimsun_: thanks and hello :-)
<bddebian> crimsun_: Oh BS :)
<crimsun_> minghua: &hi; 
<jdong> siretart: ok, I've submitted my "concern"... IANAL by any means
<jdong> also I'm not sure if I was supposed to use the Reviewers section
<jdong> on second thought that looks like it's for the deities
<jdong> sorry :)
<crimsun_> superm1: (he's on vacation until jan)
<superm1> crimsun_, is there anyone acking stuff sitting in binary new for dapper's backports then while he is away?
<crimsun_> sure, I suspect tollef/colin/scott
<crimsun_> it would be a bad idea to ping 'em, though
<superm1> k. 
<zorglu_> jdong: http://uwsg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0312.1/0697.html <- if you are interested by the subject, this emails makes it point a lot clearer than the previous one
<jdong> superm1: the archive deities do that
<jdong> superm1: apparently now they'll get cranky if I poke them, so I haven't dared
<superm1> jdong, i see...
<superm1> jdong, libiec has been sitting for like 10 days, so i wasnt really sure if i should poke around about it
<crimsun_> (it's poor manners to poke them to process queues, since they have to do it anyway)
<jdong> superm1: I understand; I'm assuming they're busy with other stuff
<jdong> superm1: (the approved backports queue hasn't been processed for that long either)
<superm1> jdong, yea. well it will get in eventually, thats all that matters :)
<jdong> superm1: I hope so :)
<jdong> superm1: it's better than the 5-month wait in breezy/dapper-cycle :D
<jdong> so I ain't complainin
<superm1> hehe yup
<proppy> damn, the macbook keymap makes me mad
<sistpoty> re
* sistpoty is out for a fast cigarette, before the meeting starts
<bddebian> Oh shit, the meeting..
<nixternal> meeting time
<nixternal> hahaha
<ajmitch> meeting?
<sistpoty> damn, no cigarette (too late), but at least a coffee :)
<nixternal> is it possible to sync/merge from debian experimental? or is that a bad idea? kvpnc has a new upstream that closes every bug on malone (5 of them)
<bddebian> I've done it in the past
<nixternal> ok, it can't hurt to request it i guess
<nixternal> what's the worse that could happen, reject the bug? hell i had to reject one of my own earlier :)
<bddebian> heh
<siretart> does anyone have the link to the motu council spec?
<bddebian> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MotuProcessesSpec
<siretart> thnx
<imbrandon> hrm when is the meeting ?
<imbrandon> ~30 minutes ?
<sistpoty> it's now
<imbrandon> sh*t
<ajmitch> imbrandon: yes, right now
<imbrandon> can you give me a qick run down on what topic we're on and whats been said ?
<imbrandon> justa  little summery
<ajmitch> motu council, nothing beyond what was said at UDS
<ajmitch> apart from the term limits coming up
<zorglu_> q. is there any doc on all the abreviation used in #ubuntu-meeting ? (just trying to understand what is being said)
<nixternal> TB == tech board
<nixternal> UDS == ubuntu developer summit (speaking of mt. view this round)
<nixternal> CC == community council of course
<zorglu_> ok thanks
<nixternal> i think those are the main ones that have been slung around in the past 10 or so minutes
<zorglu_> btw you guys may learn to type faster and avoid those abreviation :)
<nixternal> heh
<LaserJock> hmm, is the meeting over?
<nixternal> nope
<nixternal> just in time (45 minutes late, but still in time)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: we're on item 2 of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings
<LaserJock> ajmitch: thanks
<LaserJock> how did the first item go?
<ajmitch> it went
<ajmitch> it wasn't really something to agree on, more just clarifying what is there
<nixternal> i must admit, as it stands for someone really new to this whole ordeal we call MOTU, revu is probably easier than bazaar
<nixternal> but i like the bazaar idea though..it allows more involvement (means i can break it and make you mad at me)
<superm1> nixternal, with the way bzr would work, i think there would still be an area of LP for revuing - you'd upload your branch into a common directory -  so you cant break it all and make everyone mad :)
<LaserJock> you can break other people's packages though
<nixternal> oh darn ;p
<nixternal> oh good
<nixternal> :)
<joejaxx> lol
<nixternal> if you can break other peoples packages, that would be pretty scary
<LaserJock> but they are likely to be already broken so you have like a 50/50 chance of actually fixing instead
<siretart> do we have a sobby server somewhere so that we can share the minutes?
<nixternal> siretart: share them on the ml?
<nixternal> or the wiki
<siretart> nixternal: way too synchronous
<siretart> I'd specifically asked for gobby
<nixternal> there were some open canonical sobby servers at one time
<nixternal> for uds, don't know if they stayed open, but i think they did because they use them i believe for the weekly newsletter
<ajmitch> don't let the minutes block on 1 person :)
<sistpoty> hehe
<nixternal> bug 75930 - can someone look at this sync request - im sure i messed up something
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 75930 in kvpnc "[Sync Request]  Please sync kvpnc (0.8.7) from Debian experimental (main)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/75930
<LaserJock> so merges got blown over?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: yep
<LaserJock> :/
<Toadstool> re
* Toadstool sneaks into the meeting
<Adri2000> what's wrong with the idea of a box for each package in MoM to let a note saying "I'm working on it" / "this merge can't be done yet due to a problem with..." ?
<ajmitch> Adri2000: there needs to be some way of getting that data onto the merge page
<LaserJock> because Scott hasn't written that in :-)
<ajmitch> see LaserJock's reply ^^ :)
<LaserJock> I don't see why it would be so hard to do for us
<LaserJock> we really should set up something like a MOTU Package Page
<LaserJock> where there is a page/ package that has notes, tasks, etc.
<LaserJock> then we could data mine that for lists
<Toadstool> like an enhanced packages.qa.debian.org?
<LaserJock> but then I feel like LP should be able to do this
<LaserJock> yeah
<ajmitch> LaserJock: sure, someone just has to do it :)
<LaserJock> exactly
<bddebian> Damn I feel so disconnected anymore :'-(
<ajmitch> why?
<siretart> I'm currently preparing minutes of the meeting. I'll paste my draft to paste.debian.net soon. could please some native speaker look over it, correct some spelling and post it to the mailing list?
<bddebian> ajmitch: Just having a hard time keeping up with everything with my work schedule :-(
<siretart> anyone?
<ajmitch> siretart: sure
<siretart> thanks
<crimsun_> oh geez, nick highlights all over irssi
<crimsun_> siretart: seconded.
<minghua> bddebian: are you doing merge for svk?  if not I want to do it
<bddebian> minghua: Can't be done waiting on libsvn-perl afair
<siretart> ajmitch: crimsun_: http://paste.debian.net/18465
<minghua> I see
<siretart> beware, I really suck at english spelling
<minghua> use a spellchecker? ;-)
<ajmitch> siretart: from irc, I wouldn't know that you're not a native speaker :)
<crimsun_> siretart: looks good, http://paste.debian.net/18466
<LaserJock> ok, I'm off guys. I'll read the logs and follow up on ML
<bddebian> Later LaserJock
<crimsun_> siretart: (just a minor correction (removal of CC from MC decision per Colin's clarification)
* joejaxx is wondering why the locale packages for ubuntu are pulling openoffice
<bddebian> minghua: You are certainly free to do it though
<crimsun_> joejaxx: if you meant langpacks instead, follow the Dep/Rec chain
<joejaxx> crimsun_: yeah
<minghua> bddebian: I trust you, I just thought you didn't have time
<minghua> see, that's the reason we need a comment system for merges
<joejaxx> crimsun_: too bad i am not going to be able to use the ubuntu langpack metapackages
<pirast> hi, i want to fix klogic.. in the documentation of it, pictures are missing.. do you have any starting point?
<pirast> where to start fixing it?
<ajmitch> siretart: made a couple of other corrections
<pirast> or where to have alook?
<ajmitch> http://paste.debian.net/18468
<crimsun_> joejaxx: e.g., language-pack-en-base Recommends language-support-en, which pulls in the OO.o bits
<joejaxx> crimsun_: yeah
<siretart> ajmitch: since you seem to have incorporated crimsun_'s change, I think we can post your version. shall you or I post it?
<joejaxx> crimsun_: which means i am not going to be able to use the ubuntu language pack/support meta packages
<ajmitch> siretart: you can post it
<joejaxx> crimsun_: this should be interesting
<bddebian> minghua: Trusting me if your first mistake ;-P
<joejaxx> crimsun_: kind of ridiculous thought
<joejaxx> crimsun_: they pull openoffice-writer
<joejaxx> crimsun_: which explains why i had that on my xubuntu install
<joejaxx> though*
<siretart> ajmitch: sent
<ajmitch> thanks
<siretart> ajmitch: crimsun_: thanks for proof reading
<ajmitch> my pleasure :)
<ajmitch> hello Amaranth 
<Amaranth> hey
<crimsun_> siretart: yw :)
<minghua> bddebian: s/if/is/ ?  I'll check it later when I have more time :-)
<sistpoty> siretart: eeek, now we have FF on february 8th?
<siretart> sistpoty: eeh? did I get something wrong?
<sistpoty> siretart: actually I thought we'd align everything except FF (new packages) to main... or did I miss that?
<bddebian> Later gators
<siretart> sistpoty: oh. I must have missed that. please clarify as followup. sorry for the confusion
<sistpoty> siretart: let me read backlog again, I guess I just missed that
<pirast> okay, found it..
<pirast> another question, the dhelper and so on add "martin@localhost" in fields where my e-mail adress is required. where can i change it?
<sistpoty> siretart: well... the decision (at least as I read it) was to discuss the dates on u-d-discuss... 
<Toadstool> pirast: with DEBEMAIL and DEBFULLNAME environment variables I guess
<pirast> Toadstool, thanks
<siretart> sistpoty: okay. my bad. could you please clarify as followup?
<sistpoty> siretart: ok, will do
<sistpoty> StevenK: around? I still need a vote for #72951 :)
<dholbach> good night fellas
<crimsun_> night Daniel
<dholbach> night Daniel
<Fujitsu> Is it just me, or are Debian tasks in Malone now stuffed?
<Adri2000> Fujitsu: stuffed?
<Fujitsu> Yeah, have a look at https://launchpad.net/bugs/46456 for example.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 46456 in x10-automate "Upstream | x10 ships no .desktop file" [Unknown,Unconfirmed]  
<Fujitsu> Status: Status tracked in
<Adri2000> oh yeah, it's new
<crimsun_> result of new LP build, perhaps?
<Fujitsu> Don't they only release on Tuesdays? I'm sure I've checked since then....
<Adri2000> Fujitsu: but what "stuffed" mean?
<Fujitsu> Adri2000: Stuffed, as in it provides no useful information at all.
<crimsun_> fscked, broken, cracked, etc.
<Fujitsu> What crimsun_ said.
<Toadstool> :)
<Adri2000> ah yeah, all debian bugs are "Status tracked in" and they shouldn't
<Adri2000> I thought it was only because the bug watch was added recently
<pirast> could anyone please merge the debdiff in bug 75937?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 75937 in klogic "klogic's help images are not being shown" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/75937
<TheMuso> Why does LP have to have a constant change in bug reporting interface?
<crimsun_> keeps us on our toes.
<TheMuso> Damn right
<pirast> TheMuso, maybe because it is not perfect yet ;-)
<TheMuso> So am I right in understanding that eventually, instead of putting new packages on revu for inclusion, bzr branches will be used instead? Or have I interpreted incorrectly?
<sistpoty> TheMuso: correct
<TheMuso> Makes sense.
<TheMuso> Although I do wonder about any new MOTU hopefuls as to whether they like that idea or not, and thus may not contribute.
<crimsun_> revu won't be deprecated immediately from what I understand.
<TheMuso> Right.
<crimsun_> pirast: done.
<pirast> crimsun_, thanks..
<pirast> night
<joejaxx> crimsun_: the first images just built lol the boot :)
<joejaxx> they boot*
<crimsun_> nice
<joejaxx> everything works
<joejaxx> you login and up comes the environment
<joejaxx> crimsun_: i still have to build the powerpc images
<joejaxx> i am waiting for those machines to upgrade to edgy first though
<joejaxx> crimsun_: for some reason the edgy/feisty fluxbuntu images are 60mb bigger than the dapper ones that will have to be fixed
<joejaxx> or 50mb rather
#ubuntu-motu 2006-12-16
<dcraven> Any REVU admins here that can "re-sync the REVU uploaders keyring"?
<sistpoty> dcraven: yes, should be finished in a few minutes
<dcraven> sistpoty, thanks :)
<sistpoty> dcraven: update done
<muzzol_> hi
<dcraven> sistpoty, thanks again.
<muzzol_> can a version name have two hyphens?
<sistpoty> np
<muzzol_> hvirtual (1:2.1.0-2svn20061104) unstable; urgency=low
<muzzol_> 1:2.1.0-2svn20061104
<muzzol_> 1:2.1.0-2svn20061104-1
<muzzol_> is that correct?
<crimsun_> it's not best practice, but it's legal
<muzzol_> ok
<muzzol_> it is because im still learning about packaging
<crimsun_> in fact, I'd say "don't do it".
<geser> it's possible but then 2svn20061104 will be part of the upstream version
<muzzol_> so i want to just icrease version for testing
<crimsun_> why use that version string to begin with?
<muzzol_> is what i've found in the package
<muzzol_> this packages has been packaged before
<muzzol_> i'll paste some of changelog
<muzzol_> hvirtual (1:2.1.0-2svn20061104) unstable; urgency=low                           
<muzzol_> 
<muzzol_>   * SVN of 2006-11-04, non-debug build                                          
<muzzol_> 
<muzzol_>  --  <cinelerra@jon.kiberpipa.org>  Sat,  4 Nov 2006 14:25:03 +0100             
<muzzol_> 
<muzzol_> hvirtual (1:2.1.0-1svn20060912) unstable; urgency=low                           
<muzzol_> 
<muzzol_>   * SVN of 2006-09-12, non-debug build, merge with Adam's 2.1 version           
<muzzol_> 
<muzzol_>  -- Debian User <ga@kutxa.homeunix.org>  Tue, 12 Sep 2006 12:58:37 +0200        
<muzzol_> 
<muzzol_> hvirtual (1:2.0.0) unstable; urgency=low                                        
<muzzol_> 
<muzzol_>   * 2.0                                                                         
<muzzol_> 
<muzzol_>  -- Andraz Tori <andraz.tori1@guest.arnes.si>  Tue, 8 Jan 2006 22:22:14 +0200
<crimsun_> eww.
<crimsun_> first, it doesn't exist in Debian or Ubuntu, so you'd start with an initial packaging revision.
<muzzol_> ah, ok
<muzzol_> i also dont understand the colon
<muzzol_> some light?
<crimsun_> what precedes the colon is an epoch
<muzzol_> i dont find any references to colon in ubuntu p. guide
<crimsun_> e.g., 1:1.0-1 overrides 1.0-1
<muzzol_> is this usual?
<crimsun_> it is used more often than I'd like, but no, it's not usual or recommended.
<minghua> I would say it's usual
<minghua> but of course I don't recommend it either
<muzzol_> so can you give some light about how can i start the naming of this package
<muzzol_> im getting confused
<crimsun_> what's the upstream version right now?
<muzzol_> 1:2.1.0-2svn20061104
<minghua> no, what was the last release by upstream?
<minghua> not the debian package
<muzzol_> cinelerra_2.1.0-2svn20061104.tar.gz
<crimsun_> so, 2.1.0?
<muzzol_> yes
<crimsun_> 2.1.0-0ubuntu1~svn20061104, perhaps
<muzzol_> ok
<crimsun_> that's just my suggestion, ask some others
<crimsun_> (my template is mjg59's recent compiz uploads)
<muzzol_> and if i want to increment revision
<minghua> I only see version 2.1 on cinelerra's upstream web page
<muzzol_> what page are you looking?
<muzzol_> there's two forks
<minghua> I doubt upstream will release a tarball called 2.10-2svn20061104
<muzzol_> but are friendly forks
<minghua> http://heroinewarrior.com/download.php3
<muzzol_> is not that one
<muzzol_> cinelerra
<muzzol_> and cinelerra-cv
<muzzol_> are diferent
<crimsun_> minghua: upstream has some very, very ... interesting licensing issues.
<muzzol_> sorry i dindt say that
<muzzol_> is somewhat similar to sylpheed and sylpheed-claws
<minghua> well, if they are _friendly_ forks, shouldn't they at least change the name?
<minghua> actually, even unfriendly forks should do that
<muzzol_> yes, i've asked that same question in cinelerra-cv channel
<muzzol_> but seems that heroin people are ok with naming cinelerra-cv just cinelerra
<muzzol_> i also think it would be better to name it cinelerra-cv
<muzzol_> because maybe someday heroin want to release debs
<muzzol_> i think i'll start a fresh naming to reflect all this
<muzzol_> if i use this name cinelerra-cv_2.1.0-0ubuntu1~svn20061104
<minghua> crimsun_: I can imagine licensing is quite a touchy issue in video editing field
<muzzol_> and then i want to increase revision
<muzzol_> i just have to modifiy 1ubuntu1~svn20061104, right?
<minghua> I don't think 2.1.0-0ubuntu1~svn20061104 is a good idea...
<muzzol_> so?
<minghua> maybe crimsun_ meant 2.1.0~svn20061104-0ubuntu1?
<Fujitsu> minghua: I hope that's what he meant.
<minghua> but generally speaking, crimsun_ knows much better than I do
<crimsun_> use either one
<muzzol_> this package is not in debian, must i add ubuntu?
<crimsun_> I used mjg59's compiz versioning as an example.
<muzzol_> is not suposed to be used only when there's also a debian package?
<Fujitsu> crimsun_: Surely the ~svnYYYYMMDD is part of upstream?
<crimsun_> I'm inclined to discard upstream's rather nasty versioning
<minghua> I assume mjg59 keeps all the svn patches in his .diff.gz then
<muzzol_> mjg59?
<minghua> but then you need to discard upstream's tarball as well
<crimsun_> frankly 2.1.0+svn20061104-0ubuntu1 makes a lot more sense.
<muzzol_> so svn20061104 is NOT interpreted as revision, right?
<crimsun_> in the just-cited case, no.
<muzzol_> and can you answer my other question regarding packages that doesn't exist in debian?
<muzzol_> i forgot a please :)
<crimsun_> in the off chance that Debian accepts it, yes, you do need -0ubuntu1
<muzzol_> ah, i see
<muzzol_> so if there's a possibility that a package goes to debian repos i must use that prefix
<muzzol_> well, i'll use 2.1.0+svn20061104-0ubuntu1
<muzzol_> thanks for the time everyone
<muzzol_> :)
<sistpoty> hooray, one segfault found :)
<sistpoty> oops, didn't mean to highlight you ;)
<ajmitch> hehe
<sistpoty> working on a f*cked up vhdl interpreter, written with lots of naughty hacks is sooo much fun :(
<sistpoty> (thesis)
<fernando> hi all
<sistpoty> hi fernando
* Fujitsu is mystified as to how he is supposed to reject a bug in the Debian BTS.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sistpoty> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi sistpoty
<Fujitsu> Morning, bddebian.
<bddebian> Howdy Fujitsu
<geser> Fujitsu: are you trying to close a bug in the Debian BTS?
<Fujitsu> geser: Yes.
<Fujitsu> Is there no distinction between fixed and rejected, just resolved?
<geser> http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Developer.en.html#closing
<Fujitsu> That doesn't say what to do when it's not a valid bug.
<geser> I think there is no difference
<crimsun_> there's always wontfix
<Fujitsu> Add wontfix and close it?
<crimsun_> what's the context?
<Fujitsu> Debian #397909
<geser> Fujitsu: you can ask in #debian-devel on OFTC
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 397909 in soundconverter "soundconverter: Does not convert m4a (AAC) files" [Normal,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/397909
<crimsun_> that's a wontfix imo.
<crimsun_> you can't do anything about it, because the GSt plugin doesn't exist.
<Fujitsu> That's what I though.
<Fujitsu> *thought
<Fujitsu> So I just add the tag and close it?
<crimsun_> I wouldn't close it.
<crimsun_> it's not resolved, but you aren't going to fix it
<Fujitsu> OK.
<bddebian> Fujitsu: Are you going to merge zsync?
<Fujitsu> bddebian: You can take it if you want. I was going to get around to it at some point, but it's got a lot of code changes that I haven't got around to looking at yet.
<bddebian> Fujitsu: No, you can have it, someone just posted a merge on REVU
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<Fujitsu> Sounds bad.
<crimsun_> hah, nice hand-off
<bddebian> crimsun_: ?
* Fujitsu looks.
<crimsun_> I'm just chuckling :)
<crimsun_> "are you going to do it?" "no, you can" "no, really, -you- can."
<Fujitsu> bddebian: That's a very warped version of `just.'
<bddebian> Fujitsu: ?
<Fujitsu> November 19 != just.
<bddebian> I didn't mean it like "just now", I meant it like "oh, just that someone posted..." :)
<Fujitsu> Aha.
<bddebian> Basically all I wanted to know was whether or not to archive that upload off of REVU :-)
<Fujitsu> I'll have a look at it shortly.
* bddebian starts the clock ;-)
<crimsun_> holy crap. http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=403022
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 403022 in mozilla-plugin-vlc "Non-existent vlcintf.xpt file!" [Grave,Open]  
<crimsun_> -grave-, dude.
<Fujitsu> sounds good.
<crimsun_> that guy had better be glad ron lee isn't maintaining vlc.
<Fujitsu> Is he known for murdering people abusing severities?
<crimsun_> murdering would be the nice way of saying it :)
<bddebian> Main packages don't belong on REVU do they?
<sistpoty> bddebian: why not?
* Fujitsu attacks LP and the requirement to have a Product registered before you can add an upstream task.
<bddebian> sistpoty: Becuase most of us aren't cool enough to upload them? :)
<sistpoty> bddebian: well, there are quite some cool guys around. I'm not one of them though *g*
<bddebian> Do any main types even look at REVU?
<bddebian> I guess ajmitch does huh?
<sistpoty> bddebian: have ajmitch look at it :P
* ajmitch isn't cool
<sistpoty> lol
* ajmitch needs lunch
<ajmitch> generally updates to existing packages don't belong on revu
<sistpoty> ajmitch: they do, but revu should provide a debdiff to the existing one *g*
<ajmitch> the rest of us try & discourage that sort of usage
<ajmitch> since it's nice to keep revu for reviewing new packages
<ajmitch> rather than splitting the procedure for reviewing updates between malone & revu
<sistpoty> ajmitch: yes... I discourage it as well. because revu just sucks in that respect
<bddebian> Eeks, I didn't mean to start a fight, I'm just trying to clean up ;-)
* ajmitch leaves
<ajmitch> back later
<sistpoty> cya ajmitch
<bddebian> Later ajmitch
<muzzol_> dh_strip -a is what removes debug info?
<muzzol_> is commented in my rules
<muzzol_> also have this line commented 
<muzzol_> strip -x -s -R .comment -R .note debian/cinelerra/usr/lib/cinelerra/*.so
<muzzol_> if i want to disable debug info must i uncomment those?
<sistpoty> muzzol_: please use dh_strip to remove the debug info... (it might be used to split of the debug info to -dbgsym packages on the buildds)
<muzzol_> so i can ignore that strip line?
<muzzol_> sistpoty, this is first time i package this program. last guy leave debug info enabled
<sistpoty> muzzol_: you should remove the strip line, it's redundant to dh_strip for normal builds
<muzzol_> ok, that's what i wanted to know :)
<muzzol_> thanks
<sistpoty> np
* sistpoty is off to bed now
<sistpoty> gn8 everyone
<crimsun_> 'night sistpoty 
<Fujitsu> Bye, sistpoty.
<bddebian> Bah, bye
* muzzol_ goes to bed
<joejaxx> crimsun_: http://fluxbuntu.org/fluxbuntu_ppc1.png
<ajmitch> joejaxx: right, what's special about that?
<ajmitch> ps3?
<joejaxx> ajmitch: the discs were build from scratch
<ajmitch> ok
<joejaxx> built*
<ajmitch> that's a good start
<joejaxx> ajmitch: i do not the ps3 kernel whould have the regular ubuntu versioning on it :P
<minghua> so, uhm, what exactly is this "nixternal proofing packaging"? :-P
<ehazlett> greetings all...  is there a way to pass a gpg passphrase to dpkg-buildpackage so it doesn't wait for one?
<ajmitch> minghua: making it nixternal-proof, I suspect :)
<ajmitch> hello Hobbsee 
<zul> hi Hobbsee 
<crimsun_> we need to promote Hobbsee to motu deity, too.
<dominussuus> are there any plans to update gnome-pilot in edgy to 2.15?
<crimsun_> dominussuus: none currently.
<Hobbsee> hey ajmitch 
<Hobbsee> hey zul 
<Hobbsee> how'd the meeting go?
<ajmitch> crimsun_: I thought she was?
<crimsun_> ajmitch: true
<ajmitch> meeting was ok
<crimsun_> obligatory bddebian reference was in the meeting, so it went well. :-)
<dominussuus> crimsun - is there any way to request that because there's a rather crippling bug in 2.14 that's fixed in 2.15
<crimsun_> dominussuus: via backports, mayhap
<crimsun_> Hobbsee: covered quite a bit of ground. 
<dominussuus> crimsun: backports? as in from feisty?
<dominussuus> (and what does mayhap mean? I'm still picking up the abbreviations)
<crimsun_> dominussuus: yes, and "perhaps"
<Hobbsee> crimsun_: what for?
<Hobbsee> @ the deity bit
<crimsun_> oh, deity bits don't have to be explained!
<zul> was there anyting i missed after i left
<crimsun_> "just cause"
<crimsun_> zul: what was being discussed when you had to leave?
<zul> bzr i think
<zul> i was only paying half attention
<Hobbsee> crimsun_: but i didnt think i did anything that should make me a deity?
<crimsun_> zul: ah. Yeah, some bits. https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2006-December/001068.html
<ajmitch> zul: and that we elected to leave all the merges for bddebian 
<zul> great..
<crimsun_> wow, that's a present.
<zul> happy hanauka
<minghua> Hobbsee: well, for one, mortals don't have pointy sticks of doom :-)
<Hobbsee> minghua: good point.
* Hobbsee actually did some merging yesterday
<bddebian> crimsun_: I got mentioned?
* minghua heads home
<minghua> be back later
<crimsun_> bddebian: absolutely :)
<bddebian> Hmm
* bddebian doesn't remember that
<Hobbsee> !logs
<ubotu> Channel logs can be found at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs
<bddebian> I freakin hate digging through diff.gz's to see if changes got applied.. :-(
<ehazlett> can someone explain how to use dpkg-buildpackage -sgpg ?  im trying to throw options at the gpg for signing
<Hobbsee> ehazlett: dpkg-buildpackage -sa -S -rfakeroot -k<yourkeyid>?
<Hobbsee> ehazlett: the -k<yourkeyid> is the bit you're after, i think
<ehazlett> im trying to automate the key input...  so it doesn't prompt...
<Hobbsee> as in the signing bit?
<ehazlett> yeah
<Hobbsee> i dont think you can...
<ehazlett> that's what i was afraid of... ;)
<ehazlett> Hobbsee: thanks anyways... :)
<Hobbsee> ehazlett: it's kind of dangerous if you *did* want to automate that somehow
<bddebian> Did I understand from the meeting today that they feel we should actually fix the problems with packages on REVU?
<ehazlett> Hobbsee: yeah, i know... for local use only... :)
<bddebian> nixternal: You around?
<Hobbsee> bddebian: or tell the people how to fix them
<bddebian> Hobbsee: Well that was my thinking so they "learned" but that wasn't the impression I got today
<Hobbsee> ooh, i see
* Hobbsee is just getting to that bit of the meeting
<imbrandon> 
<bddebian> 
<Hobbsee> right, interesting
<imbrandon> very :)
* Hobbsee notes that they didnt discuss SRU's
<Hobbsee> palski: ping?
<bddebian> What, you don't have the MOTU secret decoder ring? :)
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: what did you need discussed?
<imbrandon> what about them Hobbsee ?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: dunno.   people are starting to bitch that their changes are taking too long
* Hobbsee shrugs
<imbrandon> heya ajmitch bddebian Hobbsee btw
<bddebian> Hi imbrandon
<bddebian> Doesn't everyone bitch about everything taking too long? :-)
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: bring it up on the list
<ajmitch> hello imbrandon 
<Hobbsee> personally, i think they're too long and painful, which is the main reason i dont put them through.  and confusing
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: but ML's are evil
<ajmitch> them don't complain :)
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: it is the holidays too, people are putting in less time as a whole imho
<Hobbsee> bddebian: which is why we should shorten them :P
<imbrandon> is part of it
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: that's true.  
<ajmitch> holidays?
<ajmitch> hah
<crimsun_> Hobbsee: probably a suitable discussion at MC
<imbrandon> too long? 7 days isnt that long imho
<imbrandon> but as crimsun said probably something for the MC to review
<ajmitch> not that we need a council, when we have the motu trinity
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: yes, i'll bet that they'll become the council
<crimsun_> imbrandon: it's not that, I don't think. It's a distinct lack of movement based on 'verification-motu-needed'
<Hobbsee> :P
<ajmitch> crimsun_: frankly, it's hard to test stuff that you never use
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: not likely as dholbach dident ask me "did i see myself on the council" so i dont think i'm up for the MC :)
<crimsun_> ajmitch: agreed.
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: awwwwww
* Hobbsee didnt get asked either, obviously
<crimsun_> imbrandon: we should test those returned by https://bugs.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=verification-motu-needed
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: hehe no worries, here, i'll do it if asked and wont fuss if not :)
<imbrandon> crimsun_: rockin, i dident know we could get a working list
<ajmitch> imbrandon: he may still be asking people
* imbrandon will do some of that tonight then
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: yes, people bitch about that too.  that devs didnt fix a bug with a patch attached in 3 months, although -sponsors has only known about it for 3 days
<crimsun_> regardless, I'll be pushing for those during the revu sprint, too
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: note that the patch was only attached to the bug 3 days ago
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 3 in rosetta "Custom links for each translation team." [Wishlist,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3
<ajmitch> shut up Ubugtu 
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> crimsun_: right on
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: yes, i know
<imbrandon> crimsun_: btw can you talk to port 902 ? ( the reason i asked is i opend up that port for vmware console access to your VM if you have vmware console installed )
<imbrandon> if you can your more than welcome to use it
<ajmitch> imbrandon: you hand out vmware access now too? :)
<crimsun_> imbrandon: I don't have it installed
<imbrandon> ajmitch: only in one special case 
<imbrandon> :)
<ajmitch> aw
<ajmitch> but my box is underpowered :)
<imbrandon> hehe the vmware box thats on ( amd64 3400+ ) is less powerfull than your desktop 
<ajmitch> probably
* imbrandon wants a shiney new vmware esx server
* ajmitch wants a shiny new box at home
<ajmitch> & some bandwidth to host stuff
<crimsun_> just a pony here.
<imbrandon> heh i got the bandwidth and the rackspace now, just no servers to plug into the holes but i'll be fixing that over the next while
<imbrandon> i just picked up a sun ultra 5 free yesterday 
<imbrandon> that i might try to rack on a shelf
* ajmitch hates imbrandon some more
<bddebian> Damn..
<imbrandon> dude and ultra 5 is only 400mhz
<ajmitch> got a ppc for the rack as well?
<bddebian> I used to get nice hardware for nada :-(
<imbrandon> ajmitch: yea i have my laptop i took to uds reloaded with a server install in the rack now, if i can find a beefier ppc i will replace it
<imbrandon> as is its a 800mhx 640mb ram
<ajmitch> yeah I know you were considering putting the laptop in there
<ajmitch> but it's not really suitable for a rack
<imbrandon> so as of this moment i have the ppc lappy reconfigured as a server and a x86 box actualy IN the rack , and a ultra 5 getting ready to possibly get put in
<imbrandon> yea thats my main problem, most of the hardware i have is "rack ready" other than my x86 and x86_64 boxes
<imbrandon> s/is/is not/
<ajmitch> so imbrandon can be our build farm now
<imbrandon> although a lappy is better than a desktop 
<imbrandon> as far as that goes
<imbrandon> ajmitch: yup, thats what i'm slowly doing
<imbrandon> :)
<bddebian> Hobbsee: You still have ksudoku up on REVU?
<imbrandon> with this pay increase i'm thinking i can have it done by febuary with all the arches i wanna put in there
<Hobbsee> bddebian: if i do, it should be archived, why?
* Hobbsee just keeps merging it
<bddebian> Hobbsee: I'm working throught the list
<bddebian> I'll archive it
<Hobbsee> bddebian: which list?  
<bddebian> Hobbsee: REVU
<Hobbsee> bddebian: ah right
<imbrandon> crimsun_: on those how many MOTU's are needed ? i thought it was only 1
<imbrandon> ( e.g. some have 2 and 3 already )
<ajmitch> imbrandon: for SRU? it still stands at 5 votes
<imbrandon> or are you meaning they only need build/uploaded
<ajmitch> seperate from the SRU team approval
<imbrandon> after uploading and testing though right ?
<imbrandon> e.g. "works for me"
<imbrandon> and umm people arent clear about what they areacking , ugh, all i see is a bunch of "+1"'s
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> it's not clear at all
<imbrandon> s/areacking/are\ acking/
<ajmitch> more motu mess :)
<imbrandon> man i wish i could have spent more time at the MOTU meeting today
<imbrandon> it was just as i was getting off work though
<imbrandon> hrm
<imbrandon> and we cant see whats in -proposed huh ?
<jdong> imbrandon: ha ha, your satiric +1 description really sounds like backports testing comments :D
<StevenK> imbrandon: Sure you can
<imbrandon> jdong: well there are diffrent types of acks on these
<StevenK> edgy-proposed is a real life, reachable repo.
<jdong> ah, ok
<ajmitch> we have to be able to see what's in -proposed to be able to test it!
<imbrandon> StevenK: i mean from LP without adding it to my sources.list
<ajmitch> imbrandon: that's just because LP sucks :)
<imbrandon> e.g. if i wanna cherry pick some packages
<StevenK> You might, I haven't tried.
* ajmitch searches
<ajmitch> I don't know if any pockets (the technical name for them) are exposed
* jdong notices that his absurd use of sshfs-over-wifi is causing 17s lag
<Hobbsee> jdong: sshfs?
<jdong> Hobbsee: FUSE filesystem for ssh
<Hobbsee> ah
<ajmitch> more jdong crack
<jdong> Hobbsee: i.e. sshfs server:/foo ~/bar
<jdong> Hobbsee: and voila, ssh mounted as a filesystem :)
<Hobbsee> ahhh
<StevenK> sshfs is scary
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: hahaha, wouldnt surprise me
<jdong> very handy, ahem, ajmitch :D
<rmjb> +1 for sshfs
<StevenK> Then again, tramp has done it for years.
<rmjb> better than smb or nfs... same permissions :)
<jdong> :)
<jdong> rmjb: I like it over smb and nfs for its versatility
<jdong> anything you can ssh to, you can mount with sshfs
<jdong> the ssh tunneling setup for remote smb shares is anything but trivial :)
<rmjb> yeah... now if only more apps were gnome-vfs aware
<jdong> aye
<jdong> even kde kioslaves sftp/fish aren't perfect
<jdong> kaffeine can't stream from it
<jdong> it has to totally copy the file over, then play
<rmjb> I see edgy kernel updates available... I'm weary to do them
<rmjb> because I don't see an equivalent update for restricted modules
<Admiral_Chicago> rmjb: security update
<jdong> rmjb: kernel ABI didn't change
<StevenK> rmjb: The kernel ABI number didn't change
<jdong> rmjb: should be compatible
* StevenK high fives jdong
<jdong> I will disclaim that there are some issues of weirdness at hteh forums
<jdong> weird breakages users CLAIM to be update-related
<jdong> but I cannot explain
<jdong> or reproduce more than once
<Admiral_Chicago> wait, i think that's right, not really sure. I realized what channel i'm in
* Admiral_Chicago is quiet
<jdong> Admiral_Chicago: that's correct
<jdong> Admiral_Chicago: and also I believe a SATA fix
<jdong> rmjb: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=318206 read that if you're curious
<jdong> rmjb: I've updated many boxes with absolutely no issue
<jdong> those experiencing trouble are in the far majority
<rmjb> yeah it's security... was waiting for the restricted modules update to appear, but you guys fixed that for me
<Admiral_Chicago> jdong: i thought so, nix said something like that
<rmjb> will update after my feisty vm finishes
<jdong> rmjb: if you installed the linux-<flavor> metapackage, the kernel update automatically holds-back until all the pieces arrive
<jdong> rmjb: so it's not something you'd worry about
<rmjb> cool... good to know
<rmjb> thanks jdong & StevenK & Admiral_Chicago
<jdong> of course murphy tends to rear his ugly head in these scenarios :D
<jdong> as noted by all the "I swear the update made my grub error 17" posts @ the forums :)
<rmjb> yeah, but it's good to know (s)he's not invited
<jdong> on the bright side, if your system breaks, rmjb, it might finally solve the mystery of what's going on
<StevenK> Oh, Murphy was an optimist. :-P
<jdong> :)
<rmjb> yay!
<imbrandon> mdt dist-apt-cache edgy-prop dump|grep ^Package
<imbrandon> err
* rmjb a guinea pig
<ajmitch> imbrandon: almost...
<keescook> wheee I've got inkscape compiled with PIE.  crazy.
<StevenK> mdt?
<ajmitch> keescook: now for extra world domination...
<imbrandon> StevenK: multi distro tools
<ajmitch> keescook: you still hack much on inkscape?
<imbrandon> some scripts from lucas
<StevenK> Ah. Don't know about them.
<keescook> ajmitch: I used to a lot more than I do now.  :)
* StevenK uses madison-lite
<imbrandon> StevenK: great for making pages like ....
<jdong> yay go madison-lite :)
<imbrandon> StevenK: http://voyager.imbrandon.com/mdt/feisty/kde.html
<jdong> keescook: I really needed my inkscape compiled with a hardened toolchain
<Hobbsee> seems like you need a local mirror to use it though
<jdong> keescook: that's been causing insomnia and hypertension for the past 3 weeks
<jdong> Hobbsee: script
<jdong> Hobbsee: that wgets Packages.bz2 files
<Hobbsee> ah
<keescook> jdong: hehe.  well, I figured it's nice and big and I know how to poke at it; it'd make a good test case.
<jdong> Hobbsee: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/37286/
<StevenK> Hobbsee: I have a 30 line script that goes through and freshens the madison-lite cache
<jdong> Hobbsee: that's the one I use, adapt to your pleasure
<jdong> it was posted on the backports list a while back
<Hobbsee> StevenK: ahh :)
<jdong> I don't remember the original source
<jdong> but I made it wget a few files simultaneously
<StevenK> Mine is a little more elegant. :-P
<jdong> which makes the process a bit more bearable :)
<jdong> StevenK: well good for you :)
<jdong> trying to make me feel bad
* jdong goes back to his corner and cries
<StevenK> Heh
<StevenK> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/37287/
<jdong> StevenK: you have to bootstrap yours by initially creating a local mirror, right?
<jdong> then it goes out and is autonomous at updating itself
<StevenK> No, you just create the directories and touch files.
<jdong> StevenK: that's what I meant
* jdong still likes his better
<jdong> download the script, and change homedir path and run
<StevenK> I can add edgy-proposed by running cp -a, and then ./update
<jdong> pfft
<jdong> :)
<jdong> lol
<jdong> <forced> I like your script too, StevenK </forced>
* StevenK goes to the opposite corner of jdong and cries, too
* Hobbsee throws rotten eggs at both of you
<StevenK> Awww
<ajmitch> cruel Hobbsee 
<jdong> Hobbsee: if that's a joke about yesterday's python upload... (j/k)
<jdong> yay, look at that, my video encoding job is done
<jdong> that means I can sleep now
<jdong> instead of watching the progress bar
<Hobbsee> jdong: sleep is for wusses.  FIX SOME BUGS!  
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: :P
<rmjb> saw an email today the universe will follow feisty schedule for version freeze but leave an extra week open for new packages
<jdong> I've had a long day already
<jdong> stupid christmas decorations
<jdong> had to swap out a bunch of 3A fuses for 10A ones
<rmjb> is that freeze the debian import freeze or the UVF?
<Hobbsee> rmjb: UVF
<rmjb> jdong: you put in larger fuses? sure that's safe?
<rmjb> Hobbsee: thanks
<jdong> rmjb: that's irrelevant. the decorations must go up
<jdong> rmjb: (I did check all of it with an ammeter once I was done)
<jdong> it was slightly beyond UL regulations
<jdong> but still what I'd consider safe
<jdong> as someone whose done the wiring for his robotics team for 5 years now
<rmjb> alrighty then
<jdong> but I do have a servo for automatically resetting my circuit breakers :)
<jdong> jdong crack in the non-computer world is kinda like that :D
<rmjb> man, you seem to take a lot of things to the extreme
<rmjb> in a good way
<rmjb> :)
<jdong> rmjb: lol, yeah, people say that
<jdong> rmjb: so if you're ever thinking about doing something crazy, you know who to talk to :D
<rmjb> true :D
<Hobbsee> jdong: now now, put down the crack pipe, and dont pick it back up...
<imbrandon> ugh
<imbrandon> how can i split a stdout line by space
<imbrandon> err i have "1 2" in stdout i want to only return 2
<imbrandon> isnt there some awk majic or something
* imbrandon hates scripts
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: in what language?
<imbrandon> bash
<imbrandon> sheel
<imbrandon> shell
<jdong> imbrandon: awk?
<jdong> imbrandon: | awk '{print $2}'
<imbrandon> possibly 
<jdong> cut should also be usable for that
<imbrandon> cut
<jdong> though I'm not nearly as familiar with cut syntax
<imbrandon> thats what i was looking for
<imbrandon> cut
<imbrandon> thanbks
<jdong> :)
<imbrandon> | cut -d " " -f 2 
<imbrandon> :)
<StevenK> cut -d\  -f2
<imbrandon> yea
<StevenK> cut -b3
<StevenK> :-P
<imbrandon> ok time to hed to work see yall in a few
<bddebian> Later imbrandon
<imbrandon> hopefully this script should work , it should help out with the testing
<imbrandon> its runnign now i'll check it when i get to the office
<rmjb> later imbrandon
<ajmitch> imbrandon: starting early again?
<imbrandon> yea another 12 to 12
<ajmitch> suck
<ajmitch> I thought you weren't going to do too many of those :)
<imbrandon> yea really sucks since i worked 8 to 4 today
<ajmitch> ouch
<imbrandon> so 8am to 4pm then 12am to 12 pm in the same day
<imbrandon> sucks
<imbrandon> but i get lots of time to do some scripting :)
<ajmitch> ah well, I hope it's a quite night for you
<imbrandon> ( and the christmass party is tomarrow at 5pm sooo )
<imbrandon> probably will be , i'll be on irc here most of the night :)
<ajmitch> you're going to be well set
<ajmitch> 1 beer & you'll be out ;)
<imbrandon> hahah yea thats what i was thinking
<ajmitch> see you later then :)
<imbrandon> :) back in ~1 hour ( when i get to the office )
<imbrandon> <detaches>
<jdong> imbrandon: your cut command appears identical to awks
<jdong> :)
<jdong> but nontheless, I'm gladd you found something that, err, made the "cut" for you?
<StevenK> jdong: If it is using multiple spaces, tr -s ' ' | cut -d\  -f2 will work, whereas awk will deal, but is a little more heavyweight.
<jdong> StevenK: yeah, awk is probably a bit excessive for the job
<jdong> but it works for me (tm) :D
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: can you check and ack https://bugs.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/k3d/+bug/64848 please?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 64848 in k3d "[SRU: EDGY]   packaging typo - k3d does not install" [High,Confirmed]  
<Hobbsee> imbrandon ^
<ajmitch> why me?
<ajmitch> is it in edgy-proposed yet?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: because you're sru team?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: dont i need the acks first?
<StevenK> ajmitch is not motu-sru
<Hobbsee> aww, sorry :(
<Hobbsee> thought you were
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: the people spoke, they didn't want me ;)
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: awww :(
<StevenK> Heh
<Hobbsee> oh right, crimsun_ siretart are the other two here
<bddebian> Where do Debian menu files belong?
<StevenK> Why they wanted me over ajmitch, I'll never know.
<ajmitch> StevenK: because you're trustworthy
* StevenK scoffs
<ajmitch> bddebian: /usr/share/menu
<ajmitch> iirc
<bddebian> thx ajmitch
<ajmitch> StevenK: I think it's because I don't actually do anything around here
* bddebian hugs ajmitch
<chillywilly> what's edgy-proposed?
<jdong> chillywilly: testing ground for edgy-updates
<jdong> chillywilly: see wiki StableReleaseUpdates
<bddebian> Heya chillywilly
<chillywilly> hi
<Admiral_Chicago> best nick ever btw
* chillywilly fixes up his apt lines
<chillywilly> nice, OOo 2.0.4...too bad 2.1 is out now ;)
<bddebian> Gnight gang
<Hobbsee> night bddebian 
<Hobbsee> chillywilly: probably people are fixing other things, and no one is willing to DDOS the buildds again
<chillywilly> also, would a new squid be asking too much ;P
<chillywilly> anyone ever use sqlgrey? I have a half finished package... :-/
<chillywilly> greylisting is such a hassle though
<Hobbsee> !info squid feisty
<ubotu> squid: Internet Object Cache (WWW proxy cache). In component main, is optional. Version 2.6.1-3ubuntu1 (feisty), package size 576 kB, installed size 1524 kB
<chillywilly> that's old
<Hobbsee> chillywilly: you could always update it, or ask whoever is the maintainer
<Hobbsee> update it then
<chillywilly> how? I didn't know I had that power
<chillywilly> :P
<chillywilly> I'm just a wannabe hanging out here harassing people
* ajmitch knows..
<chillywilly> ajmitch: you know I love you
<ajmitch> yeah
<chillywilly> you're my hero
* ajmitch finds a bucket
* chillywilly gets an umbrella
* ajmitch needs an umbrella here
<ajmitch> soaking wet outside
<chillywilly> I have a pretty long TODO list for that package...
<chillywilly> I should finish it
<Hobbsee> chillywilly: you can get a sponsor to upload it
<chillywilly> then I can say I did something
<chillywilly> weeee
<ajmitch> you chased hobbsee off
<chillywilly> I did?
* StevenK chuckles
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> poor little hobbsee
<chillywilly> I don't believe you
<chillywilly> Hobbsee usually puts the smackdown on people
<chillywilly> don't think I could scare him/her away
<ajmitch> nah, didn't you know she's just all kind & would never hurt anyone?
<ajmitch> s/all/
<chillywilly> well, everyone has to follow that code of conduct thing right ;)
<ajmitch> of course
<chillywilly> that's what I like about the Ubuntu community
<chillywilly> people are respectful of others
<ajmitch> that we don't tell you to STFU, RTFM & FOAD?
<ajmitch> like I've seen in other channels
<chillywilly> hehe
<chillywilly> yeah
* ajmitch fondly recalls ams
<chillywilly> I was chatting with him the other day
<chillywilly> he's actually maintaining a GNU project now
<chillywilly> I wanted to ban him from #gnu and people were getting all upset so I let it go ;)
<peanutb> a certain package should be in multiverse, not multiverse. How do i report this.
<chillywilly> come agaain?
<peanutb> dansguardian is not really "Free" so it shouldent be in universe
<peanutb> it is under its own license: http://dansguardian.org/?page=copyright2
<chillywilly> ok, well that makes more sense then but look at what you originally typed ;)
<peanutb> ohh sorry, major typo
<chillywilly> btw, I have no idea because I am not keen to the rules of motu-fu
<ajmitch> their license terms are rather conflicting
<peanutb> yes.
<chillywilly> yea
<ajmitch> saying that it's under the GPL only for non-commerical use is a little broken
<chillywilly> how can they ever license it like that?
<chillywilly> even*
<ajmitch> with the GPL, they can't
<ajmitch> they have something at the bottom about debian
<chillywilly> right, it makes my head hurt
<ajmitch> "No, not right. Once you have a copy of a GPL app, no one can put any (non-GPL) restrictions on it - not even me the author. I can ask people to pay for downloading DG, but once its left this site it is under the GPL which means it is free (as in freedom) and free (as in beer - provided they want to give it away for free). "
<ajmitch> so it seems to really be under the GPL
<chillywilly> it's like nprobe
<ajmitch> though he seems to think that people would be downloading it 'illegally'
<ajmitch> stupidity
<chillywilly> that guy does the same thing but you can find it elsewhere and it's legal to distribute it
<chillywilly> cause it's GPK
<chillywilly> GPL
<chillywilly> nprobe being the netflow probe for ntop
<chillywilly> do these people ever read the licenses they use?
<peanutb> maby a hello world program is an order?
<peanutb> to include. making it not dansguardian.
<peanutb> so would it be lagal to use in a commercial sitchuation?
<ajmitch> it would
<peanutb> ok
<peanutb> thanks
<peanutb> makes me wonder if RMS really did read it.
<ajmitch> why so?
<peanutb> because he is the whatever of free software
<elkbuntu> Grand Pooh-bah, you mean?
<imbrandon> re
<ajmitch> hey imbrandon 
<imbrandon> heya
<ajmitch> joy, both zope instances seem to have started
<imbrandon> script bombed when i was on my way to work looks like
<ajmitch> migrated them from a freebsd host to dapper
<imbrandon> after i finish some of these deltas i'll look art it
<ajmitch> now I just have to setup the apache rewrites & all should be fine :)
<ajmitch> shocking
<ajmitch> update-apache2-modules broken on this, no python2.4 installed
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> sounds like fun ajmitch 
<ajmitch> yeah, I'm surprised, to be honest
<giskard_> morning imbrandon ajmitch 
<imbrandon> heya giskard_ 
<ajmitch> hi giskard_ 
* ajmitch swears at NM
* imbrandon swears at NM for ajmitch some more
<ajmitch> thanks, it's appreciated ;)
<imbrandon> man tonight is going to be a loooooooooooooooooong night
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> now if I could get this mod_rewrite config correct, I'd be happy
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> I've had it setup on my box before - it's working but with a bad mod_proxy config
<imbrandon> yea i have mod_rewrite working on my box afaik
<imbrandon> i need to look actualy
<ajmitch> we use it a lot for work
<peanutb> how do i make a package that dosnt need building, because its written in php?
<ajmitch> the package will just copy the source to an appropriate directory
<ajmitch> pick a simple php package in universe & see how it's done there
<peanutb> and how would i submit it for inclusion in universe or make the DSC file?
<imbrandon> the dsc is made when you create the package
<ajmitch> you'd make the .dsc in the same way as any source package
<ajmitch> eg by debuild -S 
<imbrandon> and revu would be for inclusion
<imbrandon> brb
<peanutb> i have all the files ready(Rules, prerm, etc), but dont know what to do from there. 
<peanutb> ok i got it, but when running lilitan it gives the following output: http://pastebin.ca/280887 any ideas?
<peanutb> anyone at least know of a good howto? the only refrence i can find is someone also trying to package ampache
<peanutb> i also get secret key not available
<peanutb> any ideas??
<crimsun_> imbrandon: "+1"s are the approval to upload to edgy-proposed
<crimsun_> imbrandon: 3/5 are necessary
<crimsun_> imbrandon: once an MOTU uploads to edgy-proposed, ubuntu-archive is subscribed to ACCEPT. Once u-a accepts and the binaries are in edgy-proposed, we add the "verification-motu-needed" tag. Then we need 5 testers and 7 days.
* proppy hugs dholbach
<imbrandon> crimsun_: ahh ok
<imbrandon> btw whats up with the _ lately ?
<crimsun_> laserjock forbid me from re-nicking
<crimsun_> :-)
<imbrandon> hehe
<crimsun_> I think my client got caught in some split or something
<ajmitch> imbrandon: I think that if crimsun_ changed nick, he'd be forced to be dtchen
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> imdaniel :)
<Gloubiboulga> hello Universe
<Gloubiboulga> any Makefile god around?
<proppy> hello Universe, any '__main__.PyCentralError: package has no field Python-Version' god around ?
<Gloubiboulga> :)
<proppy> i found a bug in launchpad: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/k3d/+bug/68066
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 68066 in k3d "typo in control file prevents installation" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
<proppy> bug it does not seems to be the same issue
<proppy> as there is no typo in the control file
* proppy hugs Ubugtu
* Ubugtu squeezes proppy
* proppy bugs Ubugtu
<proppy> XS-Python-Version: >= 2.3
<proppy> seems correct to me
<proppy> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/k3d/+bug/64848
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 64848 in k3d "[SRU: EDGY]   packaging typo - k3d does not install" [High,Confirmed]  
<proppy> seems to be the one
<proppy> oh i see
<proppy> from debian policy
<proppy> XS- prefix is for source
<proppy> and i also need
<ajmitch> yes, did you put it in the binary section?
<proppy> XB- for binary
<proppy> i see
<proppy> :)
<proppy> nice
<proppy> dpkg-genchanges: warning: unknown information field `Xb-Python-Version' in input data in package's section of control info file
<proppy> :(
<proppy> i must put it, right after the XS one
<Gloubiboulga> proppy: it's just a warning
<proppy> warning, `debian/python-poker-engine/DEBIAN/control' contains user-defined field `Python-Version'
<Gloubiboulga> AFAIK it's not a problem (but I might be wrong)
<proppy> Gloubiboulga: not sure of that
<proppy> because     raise PyCentralError, "package has no field Python-Version" still occur on installation
<proppy>   http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy#head-361ba69b3cd19d9b6bab84fbac6099268ddb3366
<proppy> nice
<RzR> hi
<RzR> any one here can assist me to migrate a debian package to ubuntu ?
<Hobbsee> RzR: which package?
<RzR> http://packages.qa.debian.org/t/tuxguitar.html
<RzR> it has been requested in ubuntu
<elmargol> how can I build dbg packages?
<Hobbsee> where has it been requested?
<Hobbsee> elmargol: for...?
<RzR> Hobbsee: in the french community at least
<Hobbsee> oh right
<elmargol> Hobbsee: gtkpod and libgpod0
<elmargol> I have a gtkpod crasher
<Hobbsee> RzR: it *should* have been autosynced, if it was put in debian unstable in november...
* Hobbsee requests a sync for it
<elmargol> Hobbsee: i have my own builds of it
<RzR> ok
<RzR> since i am the debian maintainer
<RzR> should i do something to take care of it the ubuntu side
<elmargol> I can't use the edgy version so i installed the feisty version
<Hobbsee> elmargol: that could be part of the problem
<elmargol> i don't think so, there are no deps for it
<Hobbsee> RzR: there will be bug reports at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/tuxguitar about it, which you can look at.  anything that you do in debian will autosync to here, until our syncer is turned off
<Hobbsee> wah, why doesnt my script want to work?
<RzR> ok
* Hobbsee does it manually
<elmargol> http://www.ubuntuusers.de/paste/5966/
<RzR> Hobbsee: thx, so I just needed to ask , that's all ? nice job
<Hobbsee> RzR: or file the sync request, (wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources)
<Hobbsee> RzR: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/75991
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 75991 in Ubuntu "please sync tuxguitar 0.8-3 from debian unstable" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<RzR> thx
<Hobbsee> not a problem
<RzR> have you pple, played w/ ulteo ?
* Hobbsee hasnt
<RzR> just booted it in qemu
<Adri2000> "Nominate for Release" < isn't that supposed to add a task to fix a bug in a stable release of ubuntu?
<Hobbsee> i've got *no* idea what that's for.  it's new
* StevenK either.
<Admiral_Chicago> ask Sebastian or Daniel
<elmargol> is there an easy way to see if an application has debug symbols or not?
<Admiral_Chicago> neither of whom is online
<Adri2000> I thought it replaced the old "Backport Fix to Releases"
<StevenK> elmargol: file will tell you if it's stripped or not.
<elmargol> StevenK: ah ok thx
<StevenK> /bin/ls: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, AMD x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.0, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.0, stripped
<StevenK> For example.
<elmargol> not stripped <- so i have debug symbols?
<StevenK> Correct
<elmargol> thx a lot
* Adri2000 is looking for how to add a bug watch in malone
<Hobbsee> Adri2000: for gnome bugs or something?  "also effects...upstream" then add it that way
<Adri2000> Hobbsee: https://bugs.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/zsnes/+bug/70600 < there is another bug in debian about that, and I wanted to add it
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 70600 in zsnes "Zsnes needs a menu entry / .desktop file" [Unknown,Unconfirmed]  
<Hobbsee> Adri2000: also effects...distro sorry
<Adri2000> yeah but malone says "This bug has already been reported on zsnes (debian)."
<Hobbsee> hrm
* Hobbsee dostn know
<Adri2000> in fact, I want two bug watches in debian
<palski> Hobbsee: pong
<Hobbsee> palski: never mind.  there was something looking for a SRU request ealrier, but i've forgotten what it was
<palski> :) ok
<fernando> Hi all. A product in launchpad must be GPL? Or any other license?
<Adri2000> well, launchpad itself isn't gpl :p
<RzR> any news regarding "freeing LP" ?
<Adri2000> hmhmhm :)
<imbrandon> RzR: probably better off asking in the LP channel ( #launchpad ) or emailing Canonical , but FWIW i dont think so 
<imbrandon> ( assuming you ment opening the source to it )
<RzR> yea
<imbrandon> fernando: afaik LP puts no restrictions on the License of the products it contains , but again would be a better question for #launchpad
<fernando> imbrandon: thanks
<RzR> anyone here is bored enough to check a package ?
<RzR> http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/w/whitedune/?C=M;O=D
<TLE> Hey guys, what the policy on optional dependencies and optional functionality. I'm asking because I just installed the package dvdrip (a DVD backup utility) from multiverse. When I tried to use the subtitle part of that program I got an error massage telling me that the command needed was not found on my system. As it turns out I needed to install one of the recommended dependencies in order for it to work. Anyway my question is. Surely not everybody need
<imbrandon> most of the time if its an optional feature and not required to make the program run ( such as subtitles ) then you have to install it from recomends
<imbrandon> also your statement was cut off
<imbrandon> ( irc dosent like realy really long lines )
<TLE> ok, weel if that is the general policy then this falls perfectly in line and there is no issue
<TLE> thank you for clearing that up
<minghua> good morning
<TLE> And eh btw thank you guys for all your work. I just learned that some friedly sole had made a package of my favorite music player cmus, thanks a lot
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> moins minghua 
<sistpoty> hi folks
<Hobbsee> hey sistpoty 
<sistpoty> hi Hobbsee
<sistpoty> StevenK: can you take a look at bug #72951 please? 
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 72951 in dosemu "[SRU]  dosemu (dapper)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72951
<Hobbsee> StevenK: he's gone to bed about 2 hours ago
<Hobbsee> and probably wont look later today either
<sistpoty> ah, k
<Hobbsee> sistpoty: is it critical?  i can poke him about it when i'm there later today
<sistpoty> Hobbsee: it's not really that critical... it's just sitting there for some time now
<Hobbsee> sistpoty: i'll try to remember to mention it when i'm there tomorrow
<sistpoty> thx Hobbsee :)
<Hobbsee> not a problem
<Hobbsee> then again, christmas party is hardly a time for ubuntu stuff :P
<sistpoty> hehe
<Adri2000> I'm packaging a lib, dh_make creates libfoo-dev, shouldn't it be libfoo1-dev?
<geser> no, as you usually want to build againt the last version of libfoo
<Adri2000> then why http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html talks about libfooX-dev :/
<sistpoty> Adri2000: that's useful, if you want to support more than one -dev package. Then you'd have libfoo1-dev and libfoo2-dev, which would both provide (and conflict on) libfoo-dev
<sistpoty> Adri2000: but usually one -dev package in the archive is sufficient, so libfoo-dev itself is enough
<Adri2000> ok
<geser> "The latter is preferred if the library package is widely used, and the API is subject to change."
<sistpoty> yep. which usually means "lots of rdepends" or library rdependencies, so that uploading a new version would instantly render many packages unbuildable
<sistpoty> (new binary incompatible version, to be correct)
<Adri2000> for now, the lib I'm packaging will only be used by one other package
<Adri2000> and the upstreams are the same
<sistpoty> Adri2000: then just use libfoo-dev ;)
<Adri2000> :)
<Adri2000> but for the non-dev binary package, it always should be libfooX?
<sistpoty> Adri2000: yes
<Adri2000> ok
<sistpoty> Adri2000: this ensures that more incompatible libary packages are *installable* at the same time. Otherwise you'd break packages that haven't been rebuild against the newer version
<Adri2000> I see
<sistpoty> (break instantly on a users machine vs. package won't build any longer)
<sistpoty> (break instantly on a users machine vs. package *might not* build any longer even)
<Adri2000> libfoo1 or libfoo0?
<geser> libfooX where X = so-version
<Adri2000> so X = ? :)
<Adri2000> for the initial package version
<geser> do you have libfoo.so.0 or libfoo.so.1?
<Adri2000> ahhh it's 0
<Adri2000> so the 'so-version' is chosen by upstream
<geser> yes
<sistpoty> and most of the time it's right :)
<Adri2000> the default shlibs.local is strange
<sistpoty> Adri2000: you don't need it, unless you build a binary package from the same source package as well
<Adri2000> ah, cool I don't need it
<sistpoty> (and even for binary p. from same source p. there are more elegant ways)
<Adri2000> please can someone try to build libdjconsole http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=90705&package_id=213662&release_id=468492 in edgy/feisty
<Adri2000> it works on my computer (edgy) but FTBFS in an edgy/feisty pbuilder
<sistpoty> Adri2000: what do I need to install to build it? I just figured some libusb-dev, anything else?
<Adri2000> pkg-config, libusb-dev, it should be ok
<sistpoty> Adri2000: ok... *building*
<sistpoty> Adri2000: builds w.o. problems on feisty
<Adri2000> one moment, I will upload the build log somewhere
<Adri2000> sistpoty: feisty pbuilder: http://adrishost.homeip.net/~adri2000/ubuntu/libdjconsole_0.1.1-0ubuntu1.buildlog
<sistpoty> Adri2000: really strange build log... 
<sistpoty> Adri2000: what does your configure call look like?
<Adri2000> I haven't changed it
<sistpoty> Adri2000: ah, found it... 
<Adri2000> ./configure --host=$(DEB_HOST_GNU_TYPE) --build=$(DEB_BUILD_GNU_TYPE) --prefix=/usr --mandir=\$${prefix}/share/man --infodir=\$${prefix}/share/info CFLAGS="$(CFLAGS)" LDFLAGS="-Wl,-z,defs
<Adri2000> "
<Adri2000> sistpoty: found what's wrong?
<siretart> what are this "is nominated by adri2000" thingy in bug #64848?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 64848 in k3d "[SRU: EDGY]   packaging typo - k3d does not install" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/64848
<sistpoty> Adri2000: not yet... somehow the linker can't find some libstdc++ symbols if I interpret that correctly
<chillywilly> hello MOTUs
<sistpoty> hi chillywilly
<Adri2000> siretart: it's assigned to me because I "fixed" it in feisty (requested a sync), and "nominated for edgy", because I used "Nominate for Release" to add a bug task in ubuntu edgy, but didn't work as I wanted to
<siretart> what is the semantics for 'nomination for release'?
<sistpoty> huhu siretart
<vil> hi, may i have question?
<siretart> huhu sistpoty 
<vil> what happens, if an application is licensed under 3 licenses. must the package include all of them or just one?
<imbrandon> siretart: its something new the LP devs put in and havent explaind really to anyone /yet/
<imbrandon> vil: all 3
<imbrandon> err
<imbrandon> wait
<siretart> imbrandon: lets hope they do it. because, I don't think it is self explanatory at all
<imbrandon> is it tripple licenses OR does the files it contains have diffrent lic
<Adri2000> sistpoty: I have the same problem when building the package out of a pbuilder, so it's a packaging problem
<sistpoty> Adri2000: no, just found the problem
<imbrandon> if its just tripple licensed then only the one you are using ( e.g. mysql is dual lic but we use gpl ) but if the files contained are of diffrent liceses but in the same project it must contain all 3
<imbrandon> vil: ^^
<imbrandon> does that make sense
<vil> tripple licenses
<sistpoty> Adri2000: the LDFLAGS="-Wl,-z,defs" of configure will make sure, that there are no unresolved symbols in the shared object
<imbrandon> vil: ok then only the one you are distrubing under
<vil> imbrandon: this makes sense
<sistpoty> Adri2000: however the shared object isn't linked against the c++ lib (libstdc++? I always get that wrong)
<sistpoty> Adri2000: and thus doesn't resolve its symbols
<sistpoty> Adri2000: so the thing to fix is the call to the linker... 
<Adri2000> hmmm
<sistpoty> Adri2000: maybe you can fix this by relibtoolizing it/doing autotools bootstrapping again
* Adri2000 doesn't understand all that sistpoty is saying :p
<sistpoty> Adri2000: try to run the following commands: aclocal; libtoolize; automake; autoconf
<sistpoty> Adri2000: (in your unpacked source)
<Adri2000> done, rebuilding
<Adri2000> hmm, now it fails with libtool: unrecognized option `--tag=CXX'
<sistpoty> Adri2000: nice, seems to be libtools fault
<sistpoty> Adri2000: did libtoolize throw any errors?
<sistpoty> hi bddebian
<Adri2000> sistpoty: yeah
<Adri2000> libtoolize: `config.guess' exists: use `--force' to overwrite
<Adri2000> libtoolize: `config.sub' exists: use `--force' to overwrite
<Adri2000> libtoolize: `ltmain.sh' exists: use `--force' to overwrite
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty
<sistpoty> Adri2000: then use some --force to it ;)
<bddebian> sistpoty: I uploaded another libparagui but I have no idea if I did the copyright stuff right :-(
<sistpoty> bddebian: already commented on it ;)
<bddebian> Doh
<sistpoty> bddebian: I had to look twice to find the gpl thingy in it. It would have escaped me, if it wasn't explicitely mentioned in the reject mail
<sistpoty> ;)
<bddebian> Hmm :-)
* sistpoty is now afk for a while
<Adri2000> sistpoty: wow!
<sistpoty> Adri2000: worked?
<Adri2000> sistpoty: yep, thanks :)
* bddebian hates licensing/copyright crap :-(
<sistpoty> Adri2000: np... maybe you can even do that autotools-bootstrapping during the build (and do a make distclean on clean), that way the diff is smaller
<Adri2000> ok
<sistpoty> Adri2000: though that brings other problems with it; if you do it locally, you have a "known good" version of the build system. if you do it during building, sometimes it's very hard to find errors, since the system is quite complicated
<Adri2000> sistpoty: upstream can do something about that?
<Adri2000> (I can IM the author of the lib just now, so maybe it's easier :))
<sistpoty> Adri2000: of course... they can just rerun the autotools stuff as well ;)
<Adri2000> okay :)
<sistpoty> <- afk now
<Adri2000> bye
<sistpoty> later
<bddebian> Later sistpoty, thanks
<sistpoty> np
<Adri2000> bddebian: would you upload something for me please? :)
<bddebian> What's that?
<Adri2000> bddebian: http://adrishost.homeip.net/~adri2000/ubuntu/toupload/ new upstream version of grisbi (the package seems abandoned in debian) + small fixes
<bddebian> Adri2000: Does it work? ;-)
<Adri2000> of course :)
<bddebian> Adri2000: Yeah just let me do a quick test build
<guibis> hi 
<guibis> i have got a problem to package open-cascade (http://revu.dunnewind.net/) with the file xml. i have create it like has said maxence but problem is the same...
<bddebian> Adri2000: Uploaded
<Adri2000> bddebian: thank you!
<bddebian> No, THANK YOu :)
<tsmithe> how do i handle specific python dependencies?
<tsmithe> would this be correct:
<tsmithe> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/37403/
<tsmithe> anyone?
<tsmithe> ubuntu_demon, do you have any idea about python packaging?
<somerville32> Hold on a sec :P
<ubuntu_demon> hey
<tsmithe> hi
<tsmithe> somerville32, i'm holding onto that sec :)
<ubuntu_demon> I just read a book about python. There's a chapter in there. diveintopython.org
<ubuntu_demon> if that's what you mean
<ubuntu_demon> at least it's somewhere in the book
<ubuntu_demon> But I guess you are talking about making debs ?
<ubuntu_demon> here's the chapter about python packages : http://diveintopython.org/xml_processing/packages.html
<tsmithe> i am talking about debs
<ubuntu_demon> I thought so :)
<tsmithe> :)
<tsmithe> anyone care to glance over:
<tsmithe> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/37403/
<bddebian> Uhm, who are you talking to?
<ubuntu_demon> I'm not the guy to ask questions to. I only attended an irc session about packaging. I'm sorry :)
<tsmithe> ok
<tsmithe> bddebian, ubuntu_demon 
<jmantha> hi guys!
<geser> hi
<bddebian> Heya jmantha
<jmantha> bddebian!
<minghua_> hi jmantha, why did you change your nick?
<bddebian> minghua: He's trying to be "cool" like bhale and cjwatson ;-P
<minghua> I see :-)
<minghua> and dholbach I suppose
<jmantha> well, I was chided the other day for having a nick that didn't have anything to do with my LP id
<bddebian> Well dholbach has always been dholbach, but the others have recently switched :)
<ajmitch> morning
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<jmantha> ajmitch!
<ajmitch> jmantha!!
<ajmitch> hello mr defreese
<_DvP_> Could it be possible for someone to archive my package recordmydeskop (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3714) on REVU ? because a real debian package has been uploaded in debian unstable
<bddebian> Will do
<_DvP_> I'll fill a bug for asking a sync for this package
<_DvP_> Thank you ! :)
<bddebian> Don
<bddebian> +e
<ryanakca> I take it that this is due to messed up code? http://dpaste.com/3826/
<_DvP_> thanks bddebian :)
<jmantha> bddebian: did you go on a REVU cleanup spree?
<bddebian> jmantha: I'm trying
<bddebian> ryanakca: Looks like it could be missing a header file somewhere or something
<jmantha> my email suggests you'r doing pretty ok
<ryanakca> bddebian: yeah... and where could I find it? aka, how do I fix it?
<jmantha> hi brainsik and rmjb 
<rmjb> hey Laser
<brainsik> hi laser
<rmjb> what's with the new clothes?
<brainsik> :)
<jmantha> rmjb: just trying to confuse people
<rmjb> it'll work... :)
<minghua> So the number of packages in the MoM summary page is for binary packages?
<bddebian> Should be source packages I thought
<bddebian> ryanakca: grep that function and find out where it's defined
<ryanakca> bddebian: kk
<Toadstool> 24
<Toadstool> oops
<minghua> bddebian is right, it is for source packages
<Toadstool> hi!
<rmjb> jmantha: after a package has been acked two times on REVU what happens to it?
<rmjb> I've been looking out for iriverter on the feisty-changes list
<jmantha> rmjb: it's uploaded and goes to the NEW queue
<minghua> in that case we are lagging quite badly :-(
<bddebian> minghua: Yeah :-)
<jmantha> rmjb: in the NEW queue it waits for an archive administrator to review it and add it to the repo
<bddebian> I will probably get back to merges but I never know which ones to grab
<rmjb> I see
<ryanakca> bddebian: grep -rin KSSHDialog::languageChange * outputs nothing... search for languageChange or KSSHDialog first?
<rmjb> jmantha: time for me to finish my other package on REVU
<crimsun_> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/feisty/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=iriverter
<jmantha> yeah, ^^
<crimsun_> and no, we don't know when it'll be accepted.
<rmjb> I don't want to fast track it, just wanted to know the process :)
<bddebian> ryanakca: I would gtry languageChange.  KSSHDialog should be a class
<ryanakca> wierdness: grep -rin languageChange * outputs nothing either
<bddebian> What package is this?
<bddebian> ryanakca: Check in /usr/include/* it might be from another library
<ryanakca> bddebian: yep
<ryanakca> it's there... still lost as to fixing it though
<ryanakca> hey theCore
<theCore> hello ryanakca 
<bddebian> ryanakca: languageChange isn't anywhere in the source tree of your package?
<ryanakca> according to 'grep -rin languageChange *' in ~/deb/kssh-0.7/ , no
<bddebian> ryanakca: Where did you find it in /usr/include?
<ryanakca> http://dpaste.com/3831/
<bddebian> Hmm.
<bddebian> Is kssh built with qt3 or qt4?
<bddebian> Hmm, whose merges to steal? :-)
<jmantha> all of them!!
<ryanakca> bddebian: erm... qt3 I believe... seeing that the app is 2-3 years old and I don't think qt4 is that old
<ryanakca> bddebian: and I have Qt3 headers in control as well... goes threw ./configure fine...
<bddebian> ryanakca: Grep to see if any of the files include qmenubar.h
<ryanakca> nope
<bddebian> ryanakca: Where did you get this package from?
<ryanakca> kssh.sourceforge iirc... just a sec
<ryanakca> http://kssh.sourceforge.net/
* ryanakca is almost considering that this app isn't worth it
* minghua just went throught the merge list and didn't find anything perticularly motivating :-(
<bddebian> minghua: Try svk ;-)
<bddebian> ryanakca: Can you build it from source without "debianization" ?
<ryanakca> erm... lemme see :)
<rmjb> minghua: or genpower http://merges.ubuntu.com/g/genpower/REPORT
<crimsun_> genpower is a no-go due to the upstart migration.
<rmjb> I gave it a shot and failed... Hobbsee also took a look and did what I did... there's something more that needs to be done
<rmjb> it's not needed anymore?
<crimsun_> it will not build unless you add sysvinit as a build-dependency, which removes upstart
<crimsun_> whether that's sane is not my call, but I certainly would ask Scott's opinion on it.
<rmjb> so... upstart needs something added to provide what sysvinit did for genpower... or genpower could just depend on upstart...
<rmjb> or Scott could handle it :)
<crimsun_> it's entirely possible that that's all that's necessary, and in fact when you install the generated genpower deb it -doesn't- remove upstart, but I haven't investigated any further.
<minghua> bddebian: I looked, Debian renamed libsvn-core-perl to libsvn-perl, so svk from Debian FTBFS on Ubuntu now
<minghua> bddebian: do you know any plan for merging svn?
<bddebian> minghua: We are getting libsvn-perl aren't we?  Someone told me it was dep-wait?
<ryanakca> bddebian: it complains "checking for Qt... configure: error: Qt (>= Qt 3.0.2) (headers and libraries) not found. Please check your installation!"... even though I have libqt3-headers libqt3-mt-dev libqt3-mt installed... hmmm... 
<crimsun_> it's not svn that's the problem, it's libneon26
<bddebian> ryanakca: What version?
<minghua> bddebian: if we have subversion 1.4.0 from Debian, then yes, we are getting libsvn-perl
<ryanakca> bddebian: what's current standards? 3.7.2.2 ? or 3.7.3.3?
<ryanakca> bddebian: version of libqt3-headers, etc?
<bddebian> ryanakca: Yeah qt3
<rmjb> see y'all later
<bddebian> Later rmjb
<crimsun_> bddebian: / minghua: see the libneon26-dev reference in http://librarian.launchpad.net/5425114/buildlog_ubuntu-feisty-i386.subversion_1.4.2dfsg1-2ubuntu2_MANUALDEPWAIT.txt.gz
<bddebian> crimsun_: What's up with libneon26?
<bddebian> Oh :-)
<ryanakca> Version: 3:3.3.6-3ubuntu3
<minghua> crimsun_: thanks for the pointer
<ryanakca> !standards
<bddebian> Damnit, just wasted time on a usbmount merge :-(
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about standards - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<bddebian> ryanakca: The latest I've seen is 3.7.2.2 but I haven't been keeping up as you know :-(
* ryanakca thinks he'll write a factoid for it...
<jmantha> anybody around who runs vmware player/server ?
<bddebian> err s/usbmount/mini-dinstall
<somerville32> !standards | ryanakca
<ubotu> ryanakca: The current Debian packaging standards version is 3.7.2.2 as of 2006-10-02.
<jmantha> hmm, I don't like
<jmantha> that
<jmantha> it shouldn't be 3.7.2.2
<ryanakca> somerville32: thanks... that yours?
* somerville32 points at ryanakca.
<ryanakca> or the one I submited?
* minghua thinks one should never use a bot to check standard version
<somerville32> I'll delete it then
<ryanakca> minghua: why?
<minghua> either you have read the policy and know the current version, or you shouldn't gratuitously bump the standard version without checking the policy change first :-)
<ryanakca> ah
<jmantha> yeah, most people play pretty loose with the policy
<ryanakca> minghua: but aren't 3.7.2.x just typo fixes and things like that?
<minghua> actually no
<ryanakca> hmm... kk
<jmantha> it's supposed to be I'm pretty sure
<minghua>  3.7.2.2                        Oct 2006
<minghua>       * Maintainer scripts must not be world writeable (up from a
<minghua>         should to a must)                                         [6.1] 
<jmantha> well, they are pretty minor stuff
<bddebian> ryanakca: I think you need to pass --with-qt* crap to configure for kssh
<somerville32> Ok :P
<somerville32> A word change :P
<jmantha> but I really don't think Ubuntu should mess with policy versions in Debian packages
<jmantha> although I really don't know what the point is
<ryanakca> bddebian: kk
<minghua> huh?  should and must are probably two of the three most important words in policy
<minghua> IMHO ubuntu-only package shouldn't have standard version at all :-)  It's not like that Ubuntu completely follows Debian policy, after all.
<jmantha> minghua: I think the point is nobody particularly pays attention to what Policy version changes are
<jmantha> it's pretty doubtful if anybody cares between 3.7.2.1 and 3.7.2.2
<minghua> I do for my packages
<minghua> I know many others don't, of course
<jmantha> I just don't see the point really
<jmantha> if it actually meant something it would be helpful I suppose
<Q-FUNK> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=374997
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 374997 in wnpp "ITP: utf8-migration-tool -- tool to migrate a Debian system to UTF-8" [Wishlist,Open]  
<minghua> well, a maintainer is supposed to read through policy and make sure his/her package confirms everything in the policy, then put the standard version
<Q-FUNK> anybody who would care to help me fix this one?
<bddebian> ryanakca: Of course I am not having any luck with those --with-qt crap :-(
<ryanakca> nor I :(
<jmantha> minghua: yeah, but I'm not sure if people really do that much. I think they generally just use whatever is the latest
<bddebian> ryanakca: I think their configure script is jacked up
<minghua> jmantha: I know.  That's the reason I said I _think_ people shouldn't get the standard version from a bot :-)
<jmantha> exactly
<jmantha> I think I need to hammer that home better in the packaging guide
<jmantha> so guys
<jmantha> I was thinking last night, maybe we need a MOTU PTS
<ryanakca> bddebian: probably... 
<jmantha> perhaps I can build a little demo PTS for MOTU Science
<minghua> what exactly does this PTS want to achieve?
<jmantha> well, some of the stuff we were talking about in the MOTU meeting
<minghua> for version history, bugs, LP already do that
<jmantha> I was think basically showing the Ubuntu version, Debian version, Debian bugs
<jmantha> but more importantly a whiteboard, task area
<jmantha> for things like merge "locking"
<minghua> okay, that's completely different than the Debian PTS, then
<minghua> jmantha: I think you should just sign a NDA and join the LP team :-P
<bddebian> Gah, this package is just stupid :-)
<minghua> (I don't really know how/if a non-Canonical person can join LP team)
<somerville32> You just goto #launchpad and ask? :P
<jmantha> well, I don't know enough to help with LP
<somerville32> It is programmed in Python
<jmantha> plone
<jmantha> with lots of database stuff
<jmantha> I can do some Python but that's about it
<jmantha> I'm just frustrated a little bit with LP when it comes to getting useful things for devs like us
<jmantha> we need a place to put notes on a package
<jmantha> track tasks
<jmantha> and mine to create task lists
<ryanakca> what package provides qmake-qt4 ?
<bddebian> ryanakca: use --with-qt-dir=/usr/share/qt3
<ryanakca> bddebian: thanks
<bddebian> Hmm, beaglefs..
<bddebian> I hate manual merges
<jmantha> anybody think a MOTU PTS would be handy?
<Adri2000> what's PTS?
<bddebian> jmantha: Yes
<jmantha> package tracking system
<minghua> jmantha: you really should put this idea on the list for discussion
<minghua> jmantha: if you can make it, then sure, I think it's handy
<minghua> jmantha: but don't expect me to help making it :-)
<bddebian> heh
<jmantha> hehe
<jmantha> well, I'm just trying to think of solutions
<bddebian> Hmm, I don't get wtf went on with gtablix
<bddebian> Oh crap that was back from breezy
<jmantha> maybe a PTS would be too much work
<bddebian> jmantha: Nah, you can do it ;-P
<jmantha> bah, I'm not very great with this stuff
<minghua> the MOTU spirit, eh? :-)
<jmantha> but I'm pretty sure I could make a python script that could make a simple HTML page
<jmantha> what I'm unsure how to do a form though
<bddebian>  <form name="foo"> </form> ;-)
<jmantha> well, I want to do a whiteboard like thing
<jmantha> and some checkboxes to mark like merges or something
<ryanakca> bddebian: local build runs fine
<ryanakca> bddebian: how do you pass configure options to ./configure in cdbs again? (sorry, haven't packaged anything since the summer)
<ryanakca> nevermind :)
<Adri2000> can someone confirm that I can request a sync for ubuntu changes like "Change build depend to python >= 2.4" ?
<crimsun_> Adri2000: there's no blanket case. Which one specifically?
<Adri2000> burn
<Adri2000> python 2.3 -> python 2.4
<bddebian> That should be handled by the new python policy
<crimsun_> except in burn's case, it's not.
<bddebian> How come?
<crimsun_> because no one fixed it in Debian.
<crimsun_> you cannot sync burn; it has to be merged.
<crimsun_> you can choose to update it to the new Python policy in your merge if you wish.
<Adri2000> the debian maintainer updated the package to the last upstream version but didn't updated it to the new python policy... :/
<crimsun_> 0.4.3-2.1 is what I see
<Adri2000> oops yes, I was confusing with the previous package I merged :D
<bddebian> lameage
* minghua starts to feel that we don't really need a merge notes page, we just need crimsun_ :-P
<jmantha> well
<jmantha> sure
<jmantha> but that's not fair ;-)
<jmantha> bah, I can't figure out how to get vmware working on edgy
<bddebian> la la la
<ryanakca> bddebian: damn, still the same problem :(
<ryanakca> bddebian: should I upload the package sources to REVU so you can see them?
<ryanakca> or just create a ssh account for you on my box?
<bddebian> ryanakca: What kde packages are needed do you know?
<ryanakca> nope
<ryanakca> *scratches his head*
<ryanakca> the site says it depends on kde3... but I believe I have that in control...
<bddebian> ryanakca: I mean I'm trying to build it here and I don't have kde :-)
<jmantha> darn it, where the heck am I supposed to get a serial number vmware server?
<ryanakca> no clue, lol
<bddebian> Hmm, I really don't think asmail needs libxext build-dep anymore..
<sistpoty> hi folks
<bddebian> sistpoty: !!
<sistpoty> bddebian: what's up?
<jmantha> hi sistpoty 
<sistpoty> hi jmantha
<crimsun_> jmantha: ask joejaxx for one.
<jmantha> joejaxx: pingy pingy :-)
<sistpoty> jmantha: did I miss a new trend with nicks? *g*
<jmantha> sistpoty: I'm just testing it out ;-)
<sistpoty> jmantha: that's bad imo... your nick has a different color in my kvirc now :P
<joejaxx> jmantha: pong
<sistpoty> hehe
<joejaxx> oh
<joejaxx> vmware serve number
<joejaxx> server*
<LaserJock> joejaxx: how am I supposed to get one
<joejaxx> i can give you one i have 400 of them
<sistpoty> yay, back in old color *g*
<Adri2000> bddebian: why?
<LaserJock> sistpoty: you're welcome ;-)
<Adri2000> bddebian: about asmail
<LaserJock> joejaxx: do you use vmware server and player?
<joejaxx> server
<Adri2000> bddebian: ./configure still checks for it (checking for XShapeCombineMask in -lXext... yes)
<bddebian> Adri2000: Because it gets pulled in from another package now?
<Adri2000> bddebian: argh, true, libx11-dev depends on i
<Adri2000> it
<bddebian> :)
<sistpoty> bddebian: just looked at paragui again... sorry for being picky, but you miss to state what license ychar.c actually is
<bddebian> Did I put it under the GPL section?
<sistpoty> bddebian: there is no gpl section in debian/copyright (or I'm blind *g*)
<bddebian> Isn't it the first license at the top?
<bddebian> Hmm, now I am going to have to look :)
<sistpoty> bddebian: yes, it is, but it doesn't say s.th. about gpl there (or above) ;)
<sistpoty> bddebian: also the vera license thingy looks badly formatted... isn't there a tool to extract copyright info from a font?
<bddebian> You're killing me man :)
<sistpoty> (or maybe you could try to see if it's identical with copyright in ttf-bitsream-vera
<sistpoty> )
<sistpoty> bddebian: apart from that it's still nice ;)... imo you can ignore the visualC stuff, since it's generated (probably alongside with the paragui, so it would be same license as paragui imo)
<ryanakca> How do you build a package with cdbs and qmake-qt4? I have the qmake.mk line in rules... what else?
<bddebian> ryanakca: If you are talking about kssh, you would need to hack up the configure stuff
<ryanakca> no... monkey studio, a qt4 ide
<ryanakca> someone had given me alink to one a couple of weeks ago... sadly I lost it :(
<bddebian> Ahh
<bddebian> Adri2000: did you file the asmail merge?
<Adri2000> yep
<Adri2000> and rejected it
<bddebian> Ah.  You gonna file a sync request?  I almost had one done before I realized you filed that :)
<Adri2000> yes but the changelog is not yet at changelogs.debian.net so the sync script doesn't work :p
<bddebian> I don't use the sync scripts :-)
<fbond> crimsun_, midisport-firmware got rejected due to a mix-up leading to the orig.tar.gz actually containing the firmware it wasn't supposed to contain ... I need to re-upload it, with the fixed orig.tar.gz; care to be a sport?
<fbond> should I just re-upload to revu?
<sistpoty> fbond: please put append a dfsg to the upstream version, makes it easier to spot that you needed to remove stuff
<LaserJock> bah, doesn't modprobe -r unload a module?
<sistpoty> LaserJock: what's wrong with rmmod?
<LaserJock> nothing, I just didn't know it existed
<LaserJock> darn it, I really dislike how LP doesn't put the package name in a lot of bug email
<fbond> sistpoty, can you explain that a little: my current version number is 1.2-0ubuntu1.
<fbond> (and, are you offering to re-upload?)
<sistpoty> fbond: yes, I am ;)
<fbond> great :) .  what version number would make you happy enough to do that?
<sistpoty> fbond: let me look at a another package that does that ;)
<fbond> ok, thanks
* fbond is envisioning something terribly long like 1.2-0ubuntu1dfsg1
<sistpoty> fbond: no, to the upstream version makes more sense... then the tarball will get a different name
<sistpoty> fbond: 1.2.dfsg.1-0ubuntu1
<fbond> ah, I see
<gnomefreak> jdong: you here?
<gnomefreak> LaserJock: have you heard of 2.6.17-10.34 snd_hda_intel claims missing symbols?
<minghua> I've seen both 1.2.dfsg.1 and 1.2+dfsg1
<minghua> I don't think there is really a standard
<LaserJock> gnomefreak: no clue
<fbond> sistpoty, should I go ahead an use that version number (1.2.dfsg.1-0ubuntu1) then ?
<sistpoty> fbond: yes please... (you could also use the +, like minghua wrote, that's no real difference since it's also appended to the upstream part)
<minghua> actually, let me check
<minghua> (I'm sure I've seen 1.2.dfsg.1, but not sure about 1.2+dfsg1)
<sistpoty> e.g. ntpdate
<sistpoty> (or just apt-show-versions | grep -i dfsg) ;)
<minghua> one thing you need to consider is 1.2.dfsg.1 > 1.2.1
<minghua> while 1.2+dfsg1 < 1.2.1
<sistpoty> minghua: right. good point
<sistpoty> fbond: ok, use the + variant please ;)
<Q-FUNK> would anyone know of a way to make notification daemon catch and show wall messages?
<ryanakca> does pbuilder need root?
<minghua> ryanakca: yes
<ryanakca> or is it possible for me to run without it? 
<minghua> well, sudo works
<ryanakca> gnomefreak: ^^
<ryanakca> minghua: yeah
<gnomefreak> ryanakca: ok it was just me than lol
<gnomefreak> i dont ever remember running sudo pbuilder
<gnomefreak> that reminds me :(
<gnomefreak> brb logging into edgy pc if i can
<ryanakca> minghua: hmm... pbuilder + sudo question... why doesn't my sudoers file give root access to the pbuilders only to the builders group? http://dpaste.com/3836/
#ubuntu-motu 2006-12-17
* LaserJock starts tearing what remaining hair he has left out
<bddebian> heh
<LaserJock> I can't for the life of me get vmware to work
<sistpoty> ha, I don't need vmware, I use faumachine
<sistpoty> but it cost me some hair as well *g*
<LaserJock> sistpoty: what's that?
<sistpoty> LaserJock: it's basically a virtual pc... and the project I'm doing my thesis on
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> well I want to be able to do some test
<LaserJock> that's all :/
<LaserJock> just wanted to do some SRUs 
<sistpoty> ah... have you tried qemu yet?
<LaserJock> qemu by itself it too slow for me
<LaserJock> and I haven't had a ton of luck with kqemu
<LaserJock> I might have to do it anyway if I can't get vmware going
<sistpoty> hehe... then faumachine will also be too slow, it uses parts of the qemu cpu ;)
<Riddell> siretart: xine doesn't seem to want to play dvds any more
<Riddell> at least installing the edgy libxine and libxine-extracodecs fixes it
<ajmitch> LaserJock: why not jmantha?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: cause sistpoty said it was messing up his name coloring ;-)
<ajmitch> haha
<sistpoty> hehe
<LaserJock> well, vmware *should* be working
<LaserJock> I went through everything
<Admiral_Chicago> \sh_away: ping with a question
<LaserJock> grrrr
<Admiral_Chicago> LaserJock: what are you trying to run in VMware?
<Admiral_Chicago> feistf?
<Admiral_Chicago> err Feisty
<LaserJock> I'm just trying to get vmware to work period
<LaserJock> I can't get it to even start
<Admiral_Chicago> ah okay. I was wondering because a lot of people have had issues with Feisty and VMware
<LaserJock> I feel pretty retarded. It really doesn't seem like most people have a problem
<Admiral_Chicago> i've only seen it used a few times, not sure how to use it myself
<Admiral_Chicago> have you tried https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallingVMWare ?
<LaserJock> yep
<Admiral_Chicago> is it installed? just won't run
<LaserJock> yeah, I installed vmware server
<LaserJock> and it went through everything
<LaserJock> but when I go to run it, it says it's not configured
<Admiral_Chicago> what does the konsole tell you? have you tried runing it from there?
<LaserJock> vmware-player from the edgy repos doesn't install
<LaserJock> yeah, it says to run the configure script again
<LaserJock> which I've done like 4 times now
<Admiral_Chicago> permissions?
<LaserJock> ran it with sudo
<joejaxx> gdm starts the desktop environment based on the xseesions in /usr/share/xsessions?
<joejaxx> right?
<LaserJock> I think so
<joejaxx> i wonder why it is running the window manager directly instead of using the exec variable in the xsession desktop file
<LaserJock> for what window manager?
<joejaxx> fluxbox
<LaserJock> so it's running something other then what is in the /usr/share/xsessions/fluxbox.desktop
<joejaxx> it should be running yes
<joejaxx> bah
<joejaxx> yes*
<joejaxx> it should be running /usr/bin/startfluxbox
<joejaxx> Exec=/usr/bin/startfluxbox
<joejaxx> i think i got it :D
<joejaxx> hold on let me see
<ryanakca> How do you build a package with cdbs and qmake-qt4? I have the qmake.mk line in rules... what else?
<bddebian> Shouldn't it just be an issue of the build-dep?
* ryanakca attacks kssh with a battle axe
<somerville32> 0_o
<ajmitch> hello Hobbsee 
<gnomefreak> good morning Hobbsee 
<sistpoty> ryanakca: look what /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/qmake.mk does, if you can't find it out, don't use cdbs ;)
<LaserJock> Hobbsee!!!
<Hobbsee> hey ajmitch, gnomefreak 
<ryanakca> hey Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> LaserJock!
<sistpoty> hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey ryanakca 
<Hobbsee> hey sistpoty 
<ryanakca> somerville32: ask bddebian about it... I've already ripped all my hair out over it :)
<bddebian> heh
<ryanakca> sistpoty: copy it over to rules, and change QMAKE = qmake to QMAKE = qmake-qt4 ?
<bddebian> Heya Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey bddebian.  done all of u-u-s yet?
<sistpoty> ryanakca: you could try that
<bddebian> Nah, I can't keep up with you and crimsun_ there :-)
<Hobbsee> bddebian: there are lots more there.  get to it!  :P
<ryanakca> or wait... mkdir cdbs, copy over qmake.mk to it, and use debian/cdbs/qmake.mk instead of /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/qmake.mk....
<Hobbsee> ryanakca: why do you want to do that?
<Hobbsee> ryanakca: in fact, what are you doing?
<ryanakca> [19:33]  <ryanakca> How do you build a package with cdbs and qmake-qt4? I have the qmake.mk line in rules... what else?
<Hobbsee> oh right
<ryanakca> I'm packaging monkeystudio, a Qt4 IDE
<Hobbsee> ahh
<sistpoty> ryanakca: and file a bug against cdbs, QMAKE shouldn't really be hardwired to qmake, should be something like QMAKE ?= qmake (so that you can override it)
<Hobbsee> you'd do well to ask someone who was porting kde stuff over, like Riddell and others
<Hobbsee> sistpoty: yes, but we're only starting to build kde4 stuff :P
<sistpoty> hehe
<ryanakca> bug report or no?
<sistpoty> ryanakca: wishlist bug ;)
<geser> Hobbsee: should bug 28763 be pushed back to u-m-s?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 28763 in lshw "Missing .desktop file" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/28763
<ryanakca> kk... stick a patch in there as well?
<ryanakca> seeing that it's a simple enough fix?
<sistpoty> ryanakca: bugs with patches are always very much appreciated ;)
<somerville32> ryanakca, I can wishlist it for you, if you can't
<ryanakca> heh, 2 line patch:
<ryanakca> - QMAKE = qmake
<ryanakca> + QMAKE ?= qmake
<ryanakca> right?
<sistpoty> ryanakca: let me recheck with the make manual
<ryanakca> somerville32: please... I'm going to bug sflaw about -qa status on the 20th.... 
<somerville32> ryanakca, What you do is copy the file and then edit it, then use diff to make a patch
<ryanakca> yeah
<ryanakca> diff -u, right? or just plain diff?
<somerville32> diff - nuR I think
<sistpoty> ryanakca: QMAKE ?= qmake should do the trick..
<ryanakca> kk
<bddebian> ryanakca: This thing is kicking my ass :-(
<ryanakca> heh...
<bddebian> Hmm now that time it worked.. WTF
<ryanakca> you've taken up 3/4 of my log file :) back with that command at 19:42:55 that scrolled the whole vt and still had a few (command continued) things
<ryanakca> what?
<bddebian> building outside the tree
<bddebian> Grr. hmm
* ryanakca thinks he'll end up transfering maintainership to bddebian
<bddebian> No thanks :-)
<bddebian> I'm not a maintainer, I'm just a gopher :-)
<ryanakca> lol
<ryanakca> lol
<ajmitch> "go fetch me coffee!"
* ryanakca wonders if there are still some gopher servers around
* bddebian goes to get ajmitch some coffee
* ryanakca accidently leaves some messed up code on the ground for bddebian to trip on
<ryanakca> ajmitch: oooh... is that a coffee stain? on a white shirt? :D
<ryanakca> brb
<Hobbsee> geser: yes.  well, just get someone in main to upload it.  ajmitch seems like a willing target
<geser> is it enough for now to unsubscribe u-u-s and subscribe u-m-s instead?
<Hobbsee> geser: you could try.  i've already tried unsub'ing u-u-s
<ajmitch> updating the debdiff would be a good first step
<Hobbsee> then someone said "it's in universe, universe should upload it"
<Hobbsee> heh
<gnomefreak> do we have s3 unicode 3d drivers in repos anywhere?
<ryanakca> bddebian: I think I've figured out why I can't encrypt with your public key
<joejaxx> anyone know of any screencasting applications other than xvidcap and istanbul?
<Adri2000> in a debhelper package with .install files, what should I put in debian/rules? dh_install?
<LaserJock> yeah
<Adri2000> strange that it's commented by default for a library package...
<LaserJock> well, you often don't need it
<LaserJock> if the package behaves
* sistpoty is off to bed
<sistpoty> gn8 everyone
<LaserJock> cya sistpoty 
<LaserJock> now I can change my nick ;-)
<sistpoty> hehe
<gnomefreak> is xserver-xorg-video-s3virge the 3d drivers for savage(s3) cards?
<bddebian> ryanakca: Yeah?
<awbassett> Anyone in here have access to change something on the Ubuntu overview on LP?
<awbassett> there's a typo on it
<bddebian> ryanakca: OK you are keeping me from cleaning up this stupid libparagui man.. :-)
<ryanakca> bddebian: I'll /msg it to you
<LaserJock> awbassett: no, you can file a bug about it though
<awbassett> LaserJock, will do
<awbassett> thanks
<awbassett> in ubuntu-chicago we're actually doing bug triaging night as we speak :)
<LaserJock> yeah, read about that
<LaserJock> da bugs
<awbassett> heh heh
<awbassett> nixternal is one funny guy
<ryanakca> lol, figured it out?
<LaserJock> chitown bug busters
<awbassett> word
<Adri2000> small lib packaged: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3799 needs reviewers :)
<ajmitch> Adri2000: unless I didn't spot it, you're missing the critical shlibs file
<awbassett> unfortunately it looks like its just me and 'OrkinMan' doing the squashing
<OrkinMan> muhahaha
<Adri2000> ajmitch: uh? sistpoty told me it was not needed
<Adri2000> libcroco hasn't got one for example
<ryanakca> somerville32: http://dpaste.com/3844/   is the error I get with that qmake-qt4.mk ...
<ajmitch> Adri2000: and does libcroco have dh_makeshlibs ?
<Adri2000> ajmitch: I don't know, it uses cdbs
<ajmitch> then it will
<ajmitch> and yours doesn't use it
<ajmitch> so it doesn't create the shlibs file
<Adri2000> ajmitch: can you please add a comment on revu?
<Adri2000> I'm going to bed now
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> once I dig up passwords :)
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: bah.  just recover the p/w again
<bddebian> Frickin POS
<bddebian> What are you supposed about a package that won't build outside of the source tree?
<LaserJock> bddebian: how do you mean?
<bddebian> LaserJock: kssh won't build in say kssh-0.7/build only in kssh-0.7/
<bddebian> It usually means there's a hardcoded path somewhere in a configure or makefile
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> can you grep the hardcoded path
<bddebian> LaserJock: I'm not sure what it is :-(
<LaserJock> welp, I spent most of the day trying to figure out how to get vmware to work
<LaserJock> and it turns out vmware doesn't work with madwifi
<nixternal> ok like, i do debuild -S right, and then I do dpkg-buildpackage -sa right, and then I print out the .dsc and sign it right...and i highlight the changes right, how do i download that and run it now? do i need to scan the paper and the ocr will read it and build it for me?
<LaserJock> nixternal: not quite
<sladen> *blink*
<LaserJock> debuild  is a wrapper around dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot
<nixternal> like, i tried to diffdeb it and it said no can do jose
<LaserJock> debuild -S -sa
* bddebian wonders if nixternal is stoned? :)
<nixternal> hahaha
<nixternal> bddebian: LaserJock obviously didn't catch it, or he was up to no good
<LaserJock> and debuild -S -sa will sign the .dsc
<LaserJock> darn it nixternal 
<nixternal> hahahahaha
* LaserJock slaps nixternal alongside the head with multiple copies of the packaging guide
<nixternal> lol
<bddebian> hehe
<nixternal> you didn't catch the "do i need to scan the paper and the ocr will read it and build it for me?"
<nixternal> dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa -rfakeroot -k2e2c0124
<nixternal> but i have scripts to do that now..i just umph *.dsc
<bddebian> heh
<nixternal> that became to much to type...i have gotten bad...i have scripts to join local ssh servers
<nixternal> i even have some scp scripts so i don't have to continuously type the username@ip:
<LaserJock> geeze
<LaserJock> lazy
<nixternal> yup
<nixternal> now i have my sister setup in a cron job to deliver breakfast every morning now
<theCore> I, finally, found a way to use my 2GB of RAM. Building Firefox :)
<nixternal> heh
<theCore> ouch: Mem:   2075016k total,  2014436k used,    60580k free
<theCore> maybe, I shouldn't build Emacs in parallel, too... :/
<bddebian>  find / -name *emacs* |xargs rm -rf
<theCore> haha
<theCore> (defun religious-sacrifice () (interactive) (mapc (lambda (x) (shell-command (concat "rm " x)) (message "All hail emacs!!!")) (cdr (split-string (shell-command-to-string "whereis vim")))))
<theCore> what are the changes between REVU and REVU2?
<theCore> nevermind, I found the spec
<LaserJock> man, today just isn't my day
<rmjb_> it's still Saturday by you Laser?
<Fujitsu> What's up, LaserJock?
<LaserJock> rmjb: yeah
<rmjb_> well then the day is almost over :)
<bddebian> LaserJock: Still fighting vmware? :)
<LaserJock> well, I tried vmware but it turns out it doesn't work with madwifi
<LaserJock> so I decided to try qemu
<rmjb_> vmware with madwifi?
<rmjb_> in vmware it's ALL virtual hardware
<rmjb_> except the CPU
<LaserJock> but kqemu gives me kernel panics
<LaserJock> rmjb_: it can't bridge the network to the madwifi
<LaserJock> so I can't get any network
<bddebian> Bah, who needs networking? :)
<rmjb_> hmm... must be something linux specific then... I think vmware on windows can bridge to wireless nics...
* Fujitsu moans about LP and new breakage.
<rmjb_> can you try NAT instead of bridging?
<theCore> LaserJock: I got a wifi card that use madwifi too. So, maybe I could try to make it for you   
<LaserJock> rmjb_: not all wireless nics, just mine
<LaserJock> tried NAT too
<LaserJock> vmware just doesn't work for me it appears
<LaserJock> so we'll see if I can get networking in qemu
<rmjb_> the nat should work... you just wont be able to ping or connect to your vm from anywhere else but your host
<rmjb_> LaserJock: you can always give Xen a try :)
<LaserJock> well, I'm not sure
<LaserJock> I just need to be able to connect to the net from my guest
<rmjb_> if all you need is outbound connections NAT should work for you, and I don't think it needs to bond with your physical nic... it's a separate service that's running to handle it
<LaserJock> rmjb: I'm not quite bold enough to try Xen
<LaserJock> well, I couldn't get NAT to work
<LaserJock> I'm not sure why
<rmjb_> I'd try Xen, but vmware has spoiled me, I want management tools :)
<theCore> LaserJock: are you trying to run a particular image?
<rmjb_> did the guest get an ip?
<LaserJock> not that I know of
<LaserJock> theCore: well, in particular I'm trying to get an Edgy server install
<Fujitsu> Has anybody tried to add a Debian task to a bug in the past fews days?
<Fujitsu> *few
<rmjb_> debian task or bug tracker?
<theCore> LaserJock: ok, I will try that
<LaserJock> I think minghua said something about the latest LP rollout messing up something
<Fujitsu> Yes.
<LaserJock> theCore: well, I need
<LaserJock> it
<Fujitsu> It does mess up something.
<Fujitsu> Completely screws up Debian tasks. They don't display, and you can't add new ones. Forbidden.
<theCore> LaserJock: oh, file a bug
<LaserJock> theCore: what?
<theCore> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/37501/
<LaserJock> theCore: and you have a madwifi driver right?
<theCore> yep
<LaserJock> well, there's not much sense in filing a bug, the 2 apps involved are both non-free
<theCore> True...
<theCore> ok....
<theCore> that is weird
<theCore> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/37502/
<rmjb> LaserJock: you're using vmware server I assume?
<theCore> I can't purge vmware 
<rmjb> when you run sudo /etc/init.d/vmware status does it say that the NAT is running?
<rmjb> theCore: try the free server, it's more flexible in that you don't have to hack together you vmx file
<rmjb> s/you vmx/your vmx/
<theCore> rmjb: well, I just want to remove vmware
<LaserJock> you need to remove the prerm script
<LaserJock> rmjb: server doesn't work
<LaserJock> theCore: do you know wher the prerm script  is?
<theCore> LaserJock: yes
<theCore> LaserJock: thanks, it worked
<rmjb> LaserJock: I have a clean Edgy and Feisty that I snapshot after each update running in vmware server
<rmjb> they're handy for testing package installation
<LaserJock> rmjb: yeah, I was sort of wanting to doing that sort of thing
<rmjb> what issues you get with the installation?
<LaserJock> as I said, I have no network with vmware
<rmjb> what does sudo /etc/init.d/vmware status say?
<LaserJock> it's OK I think
<LaserJock> I got rid of it
<LaserJock> so I can't check it for sure
<rmjb> okay then...
<LaserJock> I wish  it had worked  though
<rmjb> if you're up for it you should give it another go... the snapshotting really makes it worthwhile
<rmjb> allows you to really screw up your installation, then revert at the click of a button
<LaserJock> well, I spentt all day trying to get it to work
<rmjb> I can see how that would be frustrating
<rmjb> wish I documented my installation steps...
<LaserJock> it took me forever just to get it innstalled
<LaserJock> and I don't thnk it installed properly even
<theCore> rmjb: are you using madwifi, too?
<rmjb> no, only a wired nic
<rmjb> afaik only the bridging should be affected by the nic you use, because you have to bridge to a specific nic or let vmware automagically choose the correct one
<LaserJock> well, perhaps I can try NAT again
<rmjb> the NAT and Host only are handled by the vmware services, and in the case of the NAT get network connections like any other app on your system
<LaserJock> all right, I'm installing vmware again
<rmjb> either of you have a new AMD or Intel chip? If so Xen might be good for you... I don't know about the management tools though
<LaserJock> nah, this is an old celeron
<rmjb> want to get an AM2 AMD for my file server... to put an asterix xen on it :)
<bddebian> Crap, bashisms in unison :(
<rmjb> patch to change /bin/sh to /bin/bash ?
<LaserJock> for some reason the installation doesn't remove /etc/vmware/not_installed
<rmjb> LaserJock: I got that too when I removed player and tried server
<rmjb> move /etc/vmware to /etc/vmwareold
<LaserJock> ok, booting up an image
<rmjb> the status of the vmware service says NAT's running?
<LaserJock> yeah
<bddebian> Gah, these merges are a joke :-(
<LaserJock> ok, so now how do I get networking up
<rmjb> I'm passing on some merges I don't know how to handle... I guess I should learn how to handle them tough
<bddebian> Like what?
<rmjb> bddebian: like coolmain
<rmjb> bddebian: like coolmail
<LaserJock> just pick the hardest one you can find
<bddebian> heh
<LaserJock> and then you'll feel better when you get it
<rmjb> LaserJock: networking in VM -> Settings is set to NAT?
<bddebian> rmjb: It wasn't fixed in Debian?
<LaserJock> rmjb: yeah
<rmjb> bddebian: the REPORT said to analyse the resultant .patch... but I dunno what I was looking at
<bddebian> Oh I don't use the reports, OK :-)
<rmjb> LaserJock: I'm switching one of my VMs to NAT
<rmjb> LaserJock: it's edgy you're booting?
<LaserJock> edgy server
<LaserJock> so cli
<theCore> rmjb: I got an AM2 AMD 
<theCore> rmjb: if you want one, wait
<theCore> rmjb: the AM2 motherboard are quite buggy right now
<theCore> er, motherboards*
<rmjb> theCore: thanks for the tip... will probably check again in 4 months then
<rmjb> LaserJock: it detected the nic? you have eth0?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> no eth0
<theCore> incidentally, that is the reason why I ended up with 2GB of on my system :)
<LaserJock> well, dmesg shows an eth0
<LaserJock> but I can't bring it up
<rmjb> what messages you get when you do `ifup eth0 `?
<LaserJock> eth0: ERROR  while getting interface flags: No such services
<LaserJock> s/services/device
<rmjb> where'd you get the vm? installed it in vmware or download?
<LaserJock> download
<rmjb> if there's nothing specific you need in the vm, might be better to install a fresh edgy server
<rmjb> you can test if the nat works by just setting the virtual cdrom to use any *ubuntu desktop iso and booting to is and trying a ping
<rmjb> s/to is/to it/
<rmjb> you can keep the vm, just reinstall the OS on it
<imbrandon> re
<nixternal> ro
<LaserJock> ru
<bddebian> GNight gang
<rmjb> LaserJock: if it all works out for you one handy tip I learned recently is to share your main machine's /var/cache/apt/archives/ directory over nfs and mount it in the vm, that way you don't have to download the same updates twice
<rmjb> jmantha: the vmware is working out for you?
<jmantha> well
<jmantha> it killed my machine
<rmjb> :o
<jmantha> but I think that might have been my problem
<jmantha> ran out of ram
<rmjb> oh... yeah, for some reason even if you allocate it a certain amount of ram is uses a little more
<rmjb> overhead I guess
<jmantha> well, I'm not sure why it did that
<jmantha> I have 512MB or ram
<jmantha> and gave it 160MB
<rmjb> you were reinstalling server? or running the downloaded vm? or using a desktop cd?
<jmantha> installing server
<rmjb> the desktop cds reall crawl on anything less than 256... I know, I've tried
<rmjb> s/reall/really/
<rmjb> you said it was an old celeron, if you have a beefier machine you can create the vm there and move it to the celeron when you're done with it... just be sure to set the networking to NAT there too
<jmantha> well, it's the fastest machine I've got :-)
<rmjb> :P
* Fujitsu wonders why the Debian task addition but only got to High, rather than Critical.
<Fujitsu> *bug
<jmantha> my desktop is a AMD 1800+
<Fujitsu> Yet, `Hard to distinguish current context without colored background' is critical... Iiiiinteresting.
<rmjb> not critical for the colour blind
<Fujitsu> I don't really see how the minor UI regression gets cherry-picking, while the work-preventing, major feature regression doesn't... :S
<nixternal> jmantha: your machine is more than powerful enough to run it
<nixternal> i have an xp2000+ with 1.25gb of ram, and i can run multiple vms at once
<nixternal> man..i wish there was some good ubuntu/kubuntu t-shirts...i refuse to buy from cafepress ever again
<imbrandon> nixternal: talk to Ridd*ell 
<nixternal> does he have them in BIG man sizes :)
<imbrandon> dunno
<imbrandon> probably
<nixternal> i will paypal for a good shirt right now
<Fujitsu> nixternal: What's wrong with Cafepress?
<nixternal> Fujitsu: 3 washes and the logo was half gone
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: they are crappy quality
<Fujitsu> Impressive.
<nixternal> they use inkjet printer to shirt it seems like..those cheap transfers you can get for a printer
<Fujitsu> Like Launchpad people's importance assignment
<nixternal> haha
<Fujitsu> And testing.
<Fujitsu> This new release management stuff has brought along so much brokenness it's really not funny.
<nixternal> all my geek shirts are dead..not wearable anymore
<nixternal> i have one that says "My other computer is your Windows box" and thats it
<rmjb> are all the ubuntu sites slow right now?
<elkbuntu> hehe. apparantly im getting a polo from the venezuela team for 'helping'
<elkbuntu> so that will take my geek shirt total to... 2
<Fujitsu> It's done some ooooodd stuff... Bug #43150 used to have 4 tasks; it now only has 3. 2 of the remaining ones have decided that they want to be indented, and not have a package shown... How sane.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 43150 in wxmaxima "[SRU]  maxima frontends fail to connect" [Medium,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/43150
<imbrandon> heh
<rmjb> g'night guys and gals
<imbrandon> l8tr
<Fujitsu> Bye rmjb.
<jmantha> rmjb: it works!
* nixternal jams element 80 and slings imbrandon a dew
<rmjb> :)
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> ele 80 rocks
<nixternal> Ego
<imbrandon> element*
<nixternal> woo
* rmjb welcomes LaserJock to the vm side
<imbrandon> slingblade
<imbrandon> ^^ ftw
* Fujitsu takes up knife throwing, and practices on LP's new release management code.
<jmantha> Fujitsu: just give in, sign the NDA, and fix it
* Fujitsu attacks jmantha with something nasty.
* jmantha puts  up his LP force shield
<jmantha> oh crap, LP is down again ;-)
* jmantha runs
<nixternal> what LP is crap?
<Admiral_Studying> that was a terrible defense
<Fujitsu> I was going to install Feisty to replace my Sid installation this evening (the ISO finished downloading 15 minutes ago, and backups were almost done), but I think I shall remain with Sid. Ubuntu has high quality infrastructure.
* jmantha throws the LP "Plone of death" web at Fujitsu 
<imbrandon> Zoppy Plone
<jmantha> nooo not ... the ... Zooooopy Plone!
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> immantha
<imbrandon> :)
<nixternal> imjordan
<imbrandon> ahh right
<nixternal> although the immantha has a nicer ring
<imbrandon> my bad
<Fujitsu> Hahah
<nixternal> heh
<imlaser> but that sound too much like:
<imniKsternal> hahahaha
<imniKsternal> imloser
<imniKsternal> i gotta wait, im on some big chans that will ban me for nick spamming
<imniKsternal> lol
<Fujitsu> Anybody know of any distros with a dev. community/style like Ubuntu, but without the LP?
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> no
<Fujitsu> Fsck.
<Ash-Fox> Linkin Park in Ubuntu... I thought that was only allowed on Livejournal posts.
<jmantha> Fujitsu: LP would stop you from using Ubuntu?
<jmantha> it's not great but that's a little much
<imbrandon> jmantha: developing it probably
<Fujitsu> jmantha: Developing Ubuntu, more probably.
<jmantha> I wonder how openSuse is
<Ash-Fox> jmantha, it has a nice bootloader on the CD...
<jmantha> well, development community, etc.
<imbrandon> it sucks imho, its tooooo novel developer centric ( how debian views ubuntu as canonical in ubuntu only true )
<jmantha> I installed it the other day
<jmantha> it was verrry slick looking
<Ash-Fox> http://ash-fox.theden.ws/temp/opensuse-netboot
<imbrandon> yea its slick working and looking, but i hate rpm package management hell
<imbrandon> if i could use suse type os with apt ( and not apt-rpm ) with true repos i would be in heven
<jmantha> the little I used theirs it was pretty good
<imbrandon> yum is just plain bad
<jmantha> yeah
<imbrandon> thats the MAIN reason i came from suse to ubuntu
<imbrandon> is package management
<jmantha> what?
<jmantha> fedora uses yum
<jmantha> I didn't think suse did too
<imbrandon> yast / you in suse
* Ash-Fox quite likes one thing about RPMs... You can look at the changelogs of what changed in package updates from the package manager, before actually downloading and installing the package
<imbrandon> yast update manager and yast
<imbrandon> err yast online update == you
<imbrandon> anyhow they both suck
<jmantha> oh nifty, I like the new LP tasks thing with indenting tasks
<imbrandon> jmantha: haha thats what Fujitsu was just complaining about
<jmantha> I know
<Fujitsu> jmantha: Have you seen bug #43150? It's been destroyed by that... Like, where'd the package names go?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 43150 in wxmaxima "[SRU]  maxima frontends fail to connect" [Medium,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/43150
* elkbuntu looks up at all the instances of 'rpm' and wonders if Fujitsu's head exploded yet
<jmantha> Fujitsu: weird, check out #75021
<Fujitsu> That makes more sense.
<Fujitsu> I also wonder where that other task in #43150 ran away too... We can't delete tasks, yet LP will make them vanish at will?
<jmantha> it's LP, it can do whatever it wants
<jmantha> all we can do is sacrifice all the beer to LP admins and pray it works
<joejaxx> well i am happy
<joejaxx> i just got my laptop almost back to where my security on it was when i had windows on it
<Fujitsu> joejaxx: That's rather silly of you.
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: ? lol
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: i have the biometric system working on my thinkpad
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: everytime something needs authentication for example sudo it asks for my fingerprint
<jmantha> geeze
<jmantha> that's gotta be annoying
<joejaxx> nope :)
<joejaxx> now i have to get the hard drive active protection working
<imbrandon> does no good when i rip your hdd out and copy the data off when the lappy is stolen :)
<imbrandon> encryption ftw
<joejaxx> imbrandon: aes loop sorry
<elkbuntu> meh, just hack off his finger
<imbrandon> for? the / ? np i doubt you rembered swap 
<joejaxx> imbrandon: :P
<joejaxx> elkbuntu: well if you hack off my finger
<joejaxx> you only get past one level of security
<joejaxx> :P
<imbrandon> elkbuntu: just photocopy it, those laptop io checks can be fooled with a photocopy of a fingerprint 
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> s/io/bio
<joejaxx> lol
<elkbuntu> imbrandon, but but but.. then i dont get to draw blood
* jmantha puts some metal gloves on
<jmantha> and slowly backs away from AU
* elkbuntu gets out an angle grinder
<joejaxx> LOL!
<imbrandon>  wow a computer chick with a angle grinder , thats scarry
<elkbuntu> imbrandon, dude, i can weld
<imbrandon> brb
<elkbuntu> o.O
<jmantha> elkbuntu: I can weld too but it's usually a bad thing if I do
<elkbuntu> jmantha, heh.. me driving a tractor... now THAT's a bad thing!
<jmantha> usually involving my lasers creating a super high temp plasma out of air
<elkbuntu> rofl
<jmantha> yeah, I can focus my laser down to a spot so small it literally obliterates the dust in the air and air itself
<imbrandon> wow
<imbrandon> zomg zomg
<imbrandon> UO again!
* imbrandon will have --0-- life now
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: UO?
<imbrandon> ultima online, a game i was adicted to for like 5 years, i even help found the server emulator for it
<imbrandon> there is a new game "darkfal" that is made to be an updated UO by some of the ex UO developers
<Burgundavia> ah, right, that
<imbrandon> darkfall*
<ajmitch> evening
<ajmitch> imbrandon: back away from it slowly
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> ajmitch: http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=28875&page=2
<imbrandon> ajmitch: how hard is it to admin an edgy box from AD ?
<imbrandon> and authenticate etc
<imbrandon> i'm trying to convince the uppers here to let me have a ubuntu workstaion ( and maybe 2 or 3 more for thoer people ) but it must mix well with our current AD
<imbrandon> i was thinking about setting it up tonight and trying it out
<ajmitch> admin a box from AD?
<ajmitch> how do you propose to do that?
<imbrandon> well that was what i was getting at, how much can i intergrate a ubuntu box into a AD domain
<imbrandon> that you know of
<ajmitch> there are no management tools for it
<imbrandon> wow
<imbrandon> none?
<ajmitch> well obviously
<imbrandon> supper
<ajmitch> how would AD control an ubuntu box?
<imbrandon> no idea, i figured there would be some samba magic somehow'
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> this is above the samba level
<imbrandon> it can control non winfdows apps with snapins
<imbrandon> etc
<ajmitch> we're talking desktop stuff
<ajmitch> & various other distro-specific things
<imbrandon> hum
<imbrandon> that bites
<ajmitch> of course
<ajmitch> so get hacking
<imbrandon> hahah i probably will somewhat BUT that dosent help me now
<imbrandon> :)
<ajmitch> management of many systems is where this is lacking
<ajmitch> I believe canonical is doing something secret with landscape, but I don't knpw
<imbrandon> well i have 20 workstations atm i "could" convert if i could have them managed somwhat
<imbrandon> plus more if that worked out well et c
<imbrandon> but the main thing is i want _mine_ 
<imbrandon> :)
<jmantha> what are you running now?
<imbrandon> plus little things like rdp clients not being able to drag/drop files to the desktop etc makes them annoyed
<imbrandon> jmantha: Vista Ultimate on most of them ( just converted from XP pro about 3 weeks ago )
<imbrandon> and 2k3 on the non ubuntu servers
<imbrandon> with a few left over centos boxes ( eventualy that will be migrated to ubuntu )
<imbrandon> but the funny thing is we /should/ be running dapper but we have almost all edgy because the perc5 raid controlers in the dell 2950 ( our staple servers ) dosent work in the dapper kernels ootb
<jmantha> Vista Ultimate?
<imbrandon> sooooo its fun fun fun :)
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> e.g the one the public can have in 30 days
<imbrandon> but corp customers ( VLK ) and RTM OEM people get it now ( since nov 30 )
<ajmitch> Hobbsee!
<Hobbsee> hey ajmitch 
<Simon80> imbrandon: tried googling for Linux+activedirectory?
<jmantha> wahoo, got a Main SRU ready for review
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: there is a russian company with a AD gconf backend, but I have seen nothing similar for KDE
<imbrandon> Burgundavia: at this point i would be happy to get ubuntu and gnome
<imbrandon> :)
<Burgundavia> basically, there are two pieces: authentication and configuration
<Burgundavia> the former is being worked on, with the new samba
<Burgundavia> the latter is far more difficult
<imbrandon> right i dident think auth would be that much of a problem 
<Burgundavia> thing is, nobody is working on free tools for this yet
<imbrandon> with winbind etc
<imbrandon> true
<Burgundavia> problem is, we don't really have a good backend sorted yet
<Burgundavia> openldap and FDS aren't really there
<Burgundavia> however, things look to be changing
<Burgundavia> Novell has a team of 5 working on GNOME configuration stuff
<imbrandon> thats scarry
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> there's certainly a lot of work to do
<Burgundavia> yes
<ajmitch> makes you realise how much ubuntu sucks
<Burgundavia> and having about 9 different backends doesn't make it easier
<Burgundavia> gconf and kconfig need to be unified
<Burgundavia> http://live.gnome.org/Glockenspiel
<imbrandon> yea for now i just want it to work with a true win2k3 server
<imbrandon> Burgundavia: i dont think it would ever happen as much as i would like to see it, there are so many fundimental diffrences
<Burgundavia> the problem I see with the whole gconf vs kconfig this is that all the replacements try and overreach
<imbrandon> right
<Burgundavia> sad part is that KDE4 would be a perfect time for this sort of change
<imbrandon> what needs to happen is not merge kconfig and gconf, you will never get them to be happy with one type thing, what nees to happen is a layer beneith that and gconf and kconfig both use that layter
<Burgundavia> that is utter and total crack
<imbrandon> Burgundavia: sure if you look at it like kde needs to change for gnome
<Burgundavia> not at all
<Burgundavia> merely saying that KDE 4 is an architecture break point
<Burgundavia> if GNOME was going through the same, I woudl say the same thing
<imbrandon> Burgundavia: kde and gnome are fundimentaly diffrent and could never use one interface for the same job
<imbrandon> backends yet
<imbrandon> err yes
<Burgundavia> this is storing data in a similar manner
<Burgundavia> not exactly rocket science and not so fundamentally different as to require two completely approaches
<imbrandon> right but who's data do you rely on gnome or kde's? e.g. why i said a layer below this
<imbrandon> Burgundavia: yes they are
<Burgundavia> nah, you need to lock the right people in a room until they agree on something
<imbrandon> alot of people dont realize just how diffrent idealy gnome and kde are, they lump them in the "free desktops" category
<Burgundavia> freedesktop has shown that it can happen, it just requires the right people starting the right dialogues
<imbrandon> no see thats where your totaly off base, SOME things can, not everything
<Burgundavia> I fundamentally disagree
<Burgundavia> have you ever looked at the difference between kconfig and gconf xml? the differences are trivial
<Burgundavia> the other part is how you deal with layered settings
<Burgundavia> and then you need a API for changed/adding/etc keys
<imbrandon> whoa now wait are you talking bank end , eg layer down below or are you talking kconfig, and no they are still very very diffrent in the way they are used, kconfig for the most part modifies per app config, gconf uses more of a windows registry thing, and its moot either way kconfig is axed for systemsettings in kde4
<jsgotangco> good evening
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: right, I am talking the backend
<imbrandon> ok yea thats what i said, a layer down below i could see
<Burgundavia> the nitty-gritty bits that an LDAP backend would care about
<imbrandon> but not the tools them selfs or they way they work 
<imbrandon> right
<Burgundavia> nah, that is up to the desktop
<imbrandon> ok ok
<Burgundavia> or the webbased frontend, etc.
<imbrandon> yea we misunderstood eachother then
<Burgundavia> ah
<imbrandon> ok
<imbrandon> heya jsgotangco 
<Burgundavia> right, kconfig has about 3 or 4 meanings
<Burgundavia> because it also refers to the kernel stuff
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> ugh phone brb
<Burgundavia> that is why I said KDE 4 would be a great time to have this discussion
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> WOW
<imbrandon> i just noticed we have part of a MS site hosted here too 
<imbrandon> heh
<jsgotangco> huh
<Burgundavia> where is "here"?
<imbrandon> jsgotangco: i work in a NOC 
<jsgotangco> ohhhh
<imbrandon> Burgundavia: the NOC i work in in KC ( gsihosting.com )
<Burgundavia> ah
<imbrandon> we do a managed hosting and colo for a few big names like walmart.com and visa.com and sprint.com 
<imbrandon> but i never knew i guess part of MS web too
<jsgotangco> that's itneresting
<imbrandon> just a small part
<jsgotangco> brb
<imbrandon> i'm trying to find out exactly WHAT small part now
<imbrandon> heh and what boxes out on the DC floor its on
* imbrandon is bad
<Burgundavia> has anybody played with ebox yet?
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Want some nuclear weapons to take them out?
<elkbuntu> how much do you like your job, imbrandon? >:)
<Burgundavia> I like what I see, but I wondered how it acts in real life
<Fujitsu> I was saving them for LP, but I think MS is a better cause.
<imbrandon> haha Burgundavia i have it loaded on a laptop next to me right this very second
<Burgundavia> and?
<imbrandon> Burgundavia: thats the company i almost went to work for in spain perl programing
<imbrandon> it looks solid
<imbrandon> i havent got to play with it a whole lot
<imbrandon> they gave me some demo cd's at UDS
<imbrandon> to try out
<Burgundavia> Userful is looking to migrate off our custom hacked tcl control app
<Burgundavia> http://np.userful.ca/ <-- this beast
<imbrandon> yea think of it like webmin done correctly on steiroids
<imbrandon> ahh
<imbrandon> nice
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: you know that security update server we talked about? figure ebox might make a good platform for it. Too bad it is written in perl, however
<imbrandon> you no like perl ? heh
<imbrandon> brb smoke break
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: just that python has more mindshare right now
<imbrandon> true
<imbrandon> i still love my perl, guess its because i know it better than python
<Burgundavia> and within the ubuntu community, there are probably more python than perl people
<imbrandon> Burgundavia: you know 4 of the ebox founders/employyees/developers are DD's and 3 are Ubuntu Dev's
<imbrandon> :)
<Burgundavia> yep
<imbrandon> 2 were at UDS and one posts on planet quite a bit
<imbrandon> anyhow smoke break back in a sec
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: can you give me web access to play with that ebox install?
<imbrandon> hrm its on a the corp intranet on my lappy right now, but i can try to get it going on voyager real fast and give you access
<imbrandon> one sec
<Burgundavia> rock
<Burgundavia> I was a little gunshy of the whole "rewrite bits of your networking" stuff
<Burgundavia> seeing as it and NM are probably not going to play nice together
<imbrandon> they should have a livecd
<imbrandon> hehe probably not
<Burgundavia> they do, the link is dead
<imbrandon> ahhh ok, i'm working from one i got at UDS , anyhow one sec
<imbrandon> lemme try to install it on voyager
<Burgundavia> voyager one of your test boxen?
<gnomefreak> is libexiv2-0.10 important at all?
<imbrandon> yea its a personal colo test box
<imbrandon> Burgundavia: ^
<Burgundavia> ah
<imbrandon> Burgundavia: its installing now in a new sandbox
<imbrandon> it will be about ~20 minutes 
<Burgundavia> sounds good
<Burgundavia> isn't it insanely early in the morning htere?
<imbrandon> 4am
<imbrandon> i have the 12 to 12 today ( then i'm off for the next 3 days )
<imbrandon> 12am ( midnight ) to 12pm ( noon )
<ajmitch> 12 till 12 again
<ajmitch> how many of those have you had lately?
<siretart> Riddell: oha. any idea why? - it worked in edgy, and xine wasn't touched yet
<ajmitch> hey siretart 
<siretart> huhu ajmitch 
<Burgundavia> Riddell: you going to look at gstreamer again for feisty?
<Admiral_Chicago> there is a tool to grab the files from a .exe, does anyone know the name
<Admiral_Chicago> i did an apt-cache search but that didn't point me in the right direction
<tsmithe> cabextract
<Admiral_Chicago> tsmithe: thanks
<tsmithe> :)
<tsmithe> np
<Admiral_Chicago> arg, wireless is being a beast
<Admiral_Chicago> i have 3 people waiting to install ubuntu but they it's laptops 
<Admiral_Chicago> hmm, i may have got it
<imbrandon> Burgundavia: not feisty but feisty+1 when we use phonon
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: right, yet another abstraction layer
<_DvP_> Is it possible for someone to archive my ubuntu package for gtk-recordymydesktop (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3727) because a real debian package has been archived yesterday in Debian unstable (main) ? Thanks :)
<Burgundavia> without solving the real problem
<imbrandon> it solves a real kde problem
<_DvP_> *uploaded
<imbrandon> dunno where your comming from
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: audio is a mess, there needs to be a good, single UI
<Burgundavia> s/UI/API/
<Burgundavia> phonon is yet another desktop specific hack
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: please see the desktop architects recent meeting information 
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: http://developer.osdl.org/dev/desktop_architects/index.php/Desktop_Architects_Meeting-3
<Burgundavia> read the part about "no clear vision from ..."
<Q-FUNK> great.  more dirty hacks.
<Hobbsee> _DvP_: done
<_DvP_> Hobbsee, thank you
<_DvP_> I think that I will fill a bug for asking a sync like for the main application (recordmydesktop)..
<Hobbsee> :)
<Hobbsee> _DvP_: when you do, give us the bug number
<_DvP_> Hobbsee, oki
<Hobbsee> (so a MOTU can ack it)
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: hmm, you still working on that ebox thingy?
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> wasup?
<tsmithe> ebox?
<StevenK> Ah, this explains why imbrandon has like 8 xboxs
<imbrandon> StevenK: ? only 8 ? hehehe
<StevenK> What, you have more than eight?
<imbrandon> yea 
<tsmithe> ebox?
<imbrandon> i'ma hardware whore
<imbrandon> tsmithe: xbox-platform.com
<imbrandon> err s/xbox/ebox
<tsmithe> ah
<tsmithe> that one works
<tsmithe> :)
<tsmithe> what's it got to do with xboxes?
<imbrandon> nothing
<imbrandon> it was a typo
<_DvP_> Hobbsee, bug number for sync are https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/76041 (recordmydesktop) and https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/76115 (gtk-recordmydesktop) :)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 76041 in Ubuntu "[Sync Request]  Sync recordmydesktop (0.3.0r2-1) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<_DvP_> oups :s
<Hobbsee> _DvP_: are those in ubuntu *at all*?
<Hobbsee> like, in your sources.list?
<_DvP_> Hobbsee, I'm sorry but I'm not sure to understand  the question :S (french inside with bad english level :))
<Hobbsee> _DvP_: the recordmydesktop and gtk-recordmydesktop - are they in ubuntu currently at all, or just on REVU?
<_DvP_> ah ok, sorry
<_DvP_> no, I made the first package for both in ubuntu but they were only in REVU
<_DvP_> but now, they are "archived"
<_DvP_> (I hope you understand)
<_DvP_> :)
<RzR> Fujitsu: hi
<RzR> Fujitsu: are you related to FSC ?
<Hobbsee> _DvP_: yep.  on REVU is not the same as in ubuntu
<Fujitsu> I've not heard of FSC, so I doubt it.
<Hobbsee> hey RzR 
<_DvP_> Hobbsee, ok ! Thanks
<Hobbsee> _DvP_: you only have to list the changes against what's in the archive
* Hobbsee fixes them
<geser> Fujitsu: FSC = Fujitsu Siemens Computer http://www.fujitsu-siemens.com/
<RzR> Fujitsu: fujitsu siemens comp
<Fujitsu> Aha, no.
<Hobbsee> _DvP_: done
<_DvP_> Hobbsee, thank you :)
<Hobbsee> _DvP_: not a problem.  REVU stuff isnt in the archive, so you dont have to list the changes - ie, we're not merging between the version on REVU and the version in debian
<_DvP_> Hobbsee, Ok, understood for next time ^^
<Hobbsee> _DvP_: cool :)
<geser> do one need special rights to add a bugwatch nowadays? or I'm doing something wrong?
<geser> Hobbsee: do you know if one needs special rights to add a bugwatch nowadays?
<Hobbsee> geser: shouldnt do
<Fujitsu> geser, that's bug... I forget what it is. One of the High priority ones in Malone, reported earlier today.
<geser> ah
<Fujitsu> Another regression with the new release management stuff, it looks like.
<cypherbios> Hobbsee: can you continue reviewing my uploaded package, and leave more comments on REVU, please?
<cypherbios> Hobbsee: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3748
<Hobbsee> cypherbios: i'm going afk soonish
<cypherbios> oh, np
<_DvP_> Is there any equivalent of the debian's popularity contest statistics for ubuntu ?
<Hobbsee> popcon?
<Hobbsee> it's not turned on by default
<Hobbsee> popularity-contest
<vil> Q: Why didn't you choose a license like BSD or Apache v2? A: Sun had several objectives in mind in choosing the license for the JDK source code. We wanted to:   Minimize the likelihood of incompatible forks. Drive more adoption. Engage a broad cross-section of the open-source communities. Protect and enhance the investments of those who have licensed and chosen to support the Java platform.   After extensive analysis and consultation with experts bot
<vil> sorry for the previous post, wrong window
<crimsun_> hmm, it seems sarah has the only registered e-mail address for u-u-s
<imbrandon> ?
<imbrandon> i thought i got email about it before
<imbrandon> afaik
<crimsun_> you did before it was switched over
<imbrandon> switched over ?
* imbrandon missed something
<crimsun_> imbrandon: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2006-December/001047.html
<crimsun_> I just happened to notice a rash of bugs to which u-u-s is subscribed, but there's no e-mail getting farmed out
<crimsun_> e.g., the update-inetd ones
<crimsun_> mostly lionel's work
<imbrandon> hrm 
<imbrandon> i thought the poiunt of the group was so we could get the emails about them
<crimsun_> right, but they were spamming ubuntu-dev as I recall
<imbrandon> i'm kinda mifed that one person can be against it and poof its gone, i *did* like getting email about all packages
<imbrandon> ahhh
<imbrandon> hrm
<imbrandon> i guess i'm just a bit confused hehe
<crimsun_> ajmitch: please add my e-mail address (on LP) as a contact for ubuntu-universe-sponsors, please
<imbrandon> so can i sign back up or flip a switch to say yes i DO want the mails ?
<crimsun_> imbrandon: you're still signed up, but I can't locate a button to click to reenable the e-mails
<imbrandon> ahh ok
<crimsun_> afaics, one has to ask the owner/administrator to add one's e-mail to the bug contact
<imbrandon> then i guess ajmitch please dito crimsun_ request for me also :)
<geser> wouldn't be a mailing list better?
<crimsun_> geser: yes
<imbrandon> thanks for pointing that out, no telling how long i would have gone and not noticed
<crimsun_> I'm thinking we should use tiber similar to how MOTUMedia does
<imbrandon> true
<imbrandon> that might work out well
<crimsun_> I should just track lionel's bug reporting according to https://bugs.launchpad.net/people/lionel-porcheron/+reportedbugs
<crimsun_> if someone else wants to jump in and process them, please feel free
<geser> crimsun_: after I've uploaded his last debdiffs I will also upload the remaining ones
<crimsun_> geser: great, thanks
<sistpoty> hi folks
<imbrandon> lo
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sistpoty> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty
<bddebian> Am I close yet? :)
<sistpoty> bddebian: I gave you +1 already ;)
<bddebian> w00t, thanks man
<sistpoty> np ;)
<Adri2000> hi sistpoty, I uploaded the lib on revu: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3799
<sistpoty> Adri2000: I'll take a look at it
<Adri2000> thanks
<sistpoty> Adri2000: just a small point so far: your short description is pretty much useless. You can figure from the package name that it's 1) a library 2) for djconsole. You cannot figure what exactly this is useful for (e.g. access to MK1/MK2)
<sistpoty> Adri2000: so better put s.th. like this in the short description instead of "repeating" the package name
<Adri2000> "Hercules DJ Console MK I and MK II access library" ?
<sistpoty> Adri2000: for example
<sistpoty> Adri2000: maybe you could also make the long description a little bit more verbose
<sistpoty> Adri2000: lol, lintian is a spellchecker nowadays as well *g*: E: libdjconsole-dev: spelling-error-in-description developement development
<Adri2000> ehehe, must be a common mistake :p
<sistpoty> seems so
<sistpoty> Adri2000: also you need to call dh_makeshlibs (before dh_installdeb). otherwise you won't get a shlibs file for the library
<Adri2000> sistpoty: the shlibs file, isn't it shlibs.local?
<sistpoty> Adri2000: nope... the shlibs file that gets installed in the package
<sistpoty> Adri2000: shlibs.local is useful, if you want have a library, that doesn't ship a shlibs file in the package (though it *should*)
<sistpoty> -want
<sistpoty> Adri2000: or if you want to build a binary package from the same source-package as well. But for this there are better ways to do it
<Adri2000> ok, I was confused with these two files
<sistpoty> Adri2000: what you'll need is a shlibs file. And since it's more error prone to write it yourself, use dh_makeshlibs to create one
<sistpoty> Adri2000: another point: it would make sense to split out the data files to a -data package (or, since these are very few, have them somehow reside in a directory correlating to the package name)
<sistpoty> Adri2000: though that's only a requirement for multiarch (e.g. if s.o. would create a lib32 package for amd64 from it as well, it couldn't be installed alongside the "normal" library package)
<Adri2000> sistpoty: I don't understand, this lib can be built for all architectures I think, so where is the problem?
<sistpoty> Adri2000: it's multiarch ;)
<sistpoty> Adri2000: on an amd64 system, I can use both 64-bit code (normal) and 32-bit code
<sistpoty> Adri2000: normally all packages for amd64 get built for 64-bit code
<sistpoty> Adri2000: however some are not 64-bit clean, or not ported yet (e.g. wine, dosemu)
<sistpoty> Adri2000: also some commercial games are 32-bit code (e.g. quake4)
<sistpoty> Adri2000: to run such a program, I need to have all dependencies as 32-bit code, because you can't mix these
<sistpoty> Adri2000: and that's where multiarch comes in...
<sistpoty> Adri2000: this means, you build for amd64 both a normal library package and a library package with 32-bit code (or erm... currently don't build)
<sistpoty> Adri2000: or reuse somehow the 32-bit build library
<Adri2000> ah, so it's for programs using libdjconsole which can't run on 64bits
<sistpoty> Adri2000: yep
<sistpoty> Adri2000: the problem now would be, that you cannot create a 32-bit library (that would get a different package name and a different library file location), which you can install *together* with the 64-bit versoin
<sistpoty> Adri2000: since there are file conflicts in the package
<sistpoty> Adri2000: see?
<Adri2000> yeah, because the two packages would want to install the same files in /usr/share/
<sistpoty> exactly :)
<Adri2000> I understand now :)
<sistpoty> I admit, that this particular use-case for this library might be pretty small though, but one never knows ;)
<Adri2000> sistpoty: but the buildd don't build two 64bits package? where can one find these 64bits packages compiled with 32bits?
<sistpoty> Adri2000: someone would need to create one ;)
<sistpoty> Adri2000: but eventually, once upon a nice day, the buildd just *might* do it
<sistpoty> (in the far future)
<sistpoty> *g*
<Adri2000> can you give me an example of such a lib in the archive?
<sistpoty> Adri2000: zlib would be an example of how to create both a 64-bit and a 32-bit library from the *same* sourcepackage
<sistpoty> Adri2000: ia32-libs-sdl would be an example of 32-bit library packages reused for amd64
* proppy hugs dholbach
<Adri2000> sistpoty: ok, is it possible to split out the data files in another package only the day when it is needed? or it's better to do it now?
<sistpoty> Adri2000: imo it's better to do it now... but if you prefer, you can also not do it now
<sistpoty> doko: do I remember correctly, that you have some wxwidgets knowledge?
<Adri2000> sistpoty: I'm going to do it now, libdjconsole-data is ok?
<sistpoty> Adri2000: yep
<Adri2000> ok
<Adri2000> sistpoty: with "Hercules DJ Console MK I and MK II access library" the short description is too long :-/
<sistpoty> Adri2000: then shorten it a bit ;)
* Adri2000 really hates description
<sistpoty> hehe
<Adri2000> sistpoty: libdjconsole0 depends on libdjconsole-data right?
<sistpoty> Adri2000: yep
<Adri2000> and libdjconsole-data depends on nothing?
<sistpoty> Adri2000: exactly
<Adri2000> ok
<Adri2000> hmm the docs files are out only in one binary package
<Adri2000> s/out/put/
<sistpoty> Adri2000: the doc files always relate to the package name as it's /usr/share/doc/<package name>/...
<sistpoty> so no problem here
<Adri2000> they are in libdjconsole-dev but not in libdjconsole0
<sistpoty> Adri2000: if these are useful for the library package itself, put it in there (instead of the -dev package). otherwise you can leave it as is imo
<Adri2000> I just listed the doc files in debian/docs, I don't choose in which binary package they are installed
<sistpoty> Adri2000: then they'll get installed in the first package from debian/control. otherwise you'll need to rename docs to <package>.docs
<Adri2000> yep, that's what I thought, I'm rebuilding with libdjconsole0 first in debian/control
<Adri2000> sistpoty: uploaded, I will re-upload with a better long description later (I have asked upstream :))
<sistpoty> Adri2000: great :)
<Adri2000> there is something wrong here: http://merges.ubuntu.com/g/gpa/
<Adri2000> the orig.tar.gz is missing
<sistpoty> Adri2000: native package
<Adri2000> 0.7.0-1.1
<Adri2000> with -1.1, it doesn't look like a native package
<sistpoty> Adri2000: well, it probably shouldn't be a native package, but it is one (since the dsc doesn't refer to a diff.gz)
<sistpoty> Adri2000: maybe the tarball got named wrong for the debian upload or so
<Adri2000> yeah, strange...
<guibis> is here anyone who know how package with java ?
<crimsun_> guibis: vil has some experience with java-related packaging.
<guibis> thanks crimsun_ so ping vil :-)
<crimsun_> it's courteous to use contentful pings, btw
<mr_pouit> Is there any chance to have automatically iceape in feisty ? (it replaces mozilla/seamonkey in debian unstable ; uploaded on December, 1st). Or should I file a sync request
<mr_pouit> ?
<crimsun_> mr_pouit: it's likely blacklisted.
<crimsun_> in which case, no.
<mr_pouit> oh, ok ^^
<guibis> crimsun_:  do you know the pseudo of vil in people-LP ?
<guibis> vil ?
<sistpoty> hm... I guess I'll try to build iceweasel again (last build failed for unknown reasons). I just *love* it's icon *g*
<sistpoty> s/it's/its/
<mr_pouit> :D
<crimsun_> Amaranth: #74472 is queued in my list. I'll dig into this week before I leave for HK. I'll hold off sending BenC a patch until it's clear whether Jaroslav (upstream) intends to push again into 2.6.20.
<geser> crimsun_: netkit-telnet from Lionel's list is for you to sponsor (bug 76159)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 76159 in netkit-telnet "missing dependency on update-inetd make it uninstallable on feisty" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/76159
<vil> guibis: pong
<guibis> hi vil
<guibis> i do a pakage from code-aster (http://revu.dunnewind.net/)
<vil> hi guibis, how can i help
<Amaranth> crimsun_: alright, thanks
<guibis> and i have a problem, because, after my pbuild it is writing, that i lacks .xml
<crimsun_> geser: thanks, uploaded
<guibis> and in fact it exists
<ryanakca> how do I fix this pbuilder + cdbs + qmake-qt4 error? http://dpaste.com/3844/
<vil> guibis: which package it is?
<ryanakca> I can pastebin the rules file and qmake-qt4.mk
<guibis> oh sorry it's open-cascade and not code-aster ...
<guibis> scuse vil
<vil> let me have a look
<guibis> ok thanks
<vil> guibis: oops, it will take me a while, because the orig has 30MB
<guibis> no problem i can wait :-) like you ? :-D
<vil> isn't there another mirror of the orig.tar.gz? it seems to run very slow
<vil> guibis: i worry that i won't be able to download that file, whatever i try it stops at 500kB
<guibis> ok vil i will to do an another way to upload my package....
<guibis> and after i ping you 
<guibis> vil in few minutes it will be to revu.tauware ..
<vil> ok
<tsmithe> _MMA_, i can be looking in here if you want
<_MMA_> k
<vil> guibis: i'll have it in 5 minutes from the original location, so maybe you can stop at tauware. it got second breathe
<guibis> oki vil i stop it ...
<vil> guibis: so i tried to buid the package
<vil> and failed on build.xml
<vil> where should it come from? i did not find it
<_Enchained> hi !
<_Enchained> can anyone take a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3386 ?
<guibis> ok vil you have got the same problem as me, i'm rassure on it...
<guibis> :-)
<vil> the cdbs + ant combination is good, but you need a build.xml, which drives the compilation. it seems to be missing in the original archive
<vil> so maybe you will need to provide your own (which would be hell for such large application)
<ryanakca> how do I fix this pbuilder + cdbs + qmake-qt4 error? http://dpaste.com/3844/   rules and qmake-qt4.mk = http://dpaste.com/3860/
<zorglu_> q. is there a document i could read on the process to include a package in the official ubuntu repositories ?
<zorglu_> /join #ubuntu-meeting
<Gloubiboulga> zorglu_: you can have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New
<zorglu_> thanks
<Gloubiboulga> (2nd section)
<jmantha> man I love bugs :-)
<jmantha> man I love LTS too :/
<joejaxx> jmantha: :P
<joejaxx> jmantha: my laptop just lost direct rendering :)
<jmantha> wahoo
<jmantha> :/
<jmantha> I got vmware working with NAT
<joejaxx> jmantha: glxinfo |grep direct
<joejaxx> jmantha: glxinfo |grep directdirect rendering: No
<joejaxx> jmantha: nice!
<joejaxx> :)
<jmantha> I don't even try to get direct rendering
<ryanakca> how do I fix this pbuilder + cdbs + qmake-qt4 error? http://dpaste.com/3844/   rules and qmake-qt4.mk = http://dpaste.com/3860/
<jmantha> hah
<gpocentek> jmantha: I follow your example :)
<gpocentek> and cjwatson's, tfheen's...
<jmantha> bhale
<somerville32> Maybe I should too <g>
<somerville32> It appears to be the new cool thing to do
<gpocentek> somerville32: well Gloubiboulga is *really* different from my real name
<jmantha> well, I like LaserJock better
* somerville32 doesn't know anyone anymore.
<jmantha> but it *is* hard for people trying to find me on LP (email or something)
<gpocentek> jmantha: same for me
<ivoks> uh, don't change nicknames :)
<jmantha> oh, but it's fun
<somerville32> I didn't even know jmantha was LaserJock, haha
<jmantha> somerville32: ;-)
<ryanakca> somerville32: lol, [14:55]  [Whois]  jmantha is n=mantha@ubuntu/member/laserjock (Jordan Mantha)
<ryanakca> :D
* somerville32 doesn't whois everyone he talks to :P
<ryanakca> somerville32: had we decided on QMAKE ?= or QMAKE =?      ?
<ryanakca> ?=, right?
<ryanakca> lol
<somerville32> If I remember correctly, thats what the individual you were talking to recommended
<ryanakca> kk
<ajmitch> morning
<jmantha> ajmitch!
<ryanakca> what's an example qt4 + qmake + cdbs app?
<crimsun_> kdefreak: speedcrunch.
<kdefreak> crimsun_: thanks :)
<crimsun_> note the patches in debian/patches/
<kdefreak> ah
<kdefreak> lol, I was going to say... "this isn't a qmake app" :)
<kdefreak> thanks
<kdefreak> crimsun_: hmm... so, would that patch work with any qmake-qt4 app & cdbs?
<crimsun_> I didn't dig any deeper
<crimsun_> if the diff is still applicable, then yes
<kdefreak> ah, kk. how do you find apps that build with qt4/qmake/cdbs? packages.u.c?
<crimsun_> I rdep'd libqt4-core
<crimsun_> then I check the packages' Build-Deps
<crimsun_> iterate
<soothsay> I'm trying to package something (for myself) for the first  time. I'm using debhelper. It's a library and seems to  compile cleanly and also seems to install into the correct  directory when using prefix. I run dh_make, edit control and  then run dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot. The package appears to  be built cleanly but the .deb is essentially empty (only 
<soothsay>  Copyright ntice and changelog). What am I doilng wrong?
<soothsay> gen_control gives a warning unknown substitution variable  ${shlibs:Depends}
<soothsay> same for ${misc:Depends}
<gpocentek> soothsay: could you build the source package (debuild -S -sa) and upload the .orig.tar.gz, the .dsc, and the .diff.gz somewhere ?
<crimsun_> it takes more effort than that. Have you read the library packaging guide?  [http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html ] 
<soothsay> I read the maintainers guide. Where can I find library packaging guide?
<crimsun_> URL given directly above your question.
<soothsay> heh
<soothsay> gpocentek: Can you recommend a file host?
<gpocentek> soothsay: not really
<soothsay> Alright, will spend some minutes looking for one
<soothsay> gpocentek: http://files-upload.com/files/30899/pigment_0.1.1-1.diff.gz.html
<soothsay> http://files-upload.com/files/30898/pigment_0.1.1-1.dsc.html
<soothsay> http://files-upload.com/files/30897/pigment_0.1.1.orig.tar.gz.html
<kdefreak> rrrrg. Ok, I've figured out the problem. only thing is how to fix it. Problem: building creates obj-i486-linux-gnu, cd's to that directory, runs qmake-qt4 -o Makefile monkey.pro, but can't find monkey.pro, becaus monkey.pro is in the previous directory. If I change the rules to run qmake-qt4 -o Makefile monkey.pro, it then looks for obj-i486-linux-gnu/../../src, when infact, it should be looking for obj-i486-linux-gnu/../src.
<kdefreak> http://dpaste.com/3866/
<tsmithe> how do i go about making modifications to the .orig (don't ask why: i just need to)? i need to remove a directory, and modify the configure.in and Makefile.in files accordingly; to comply with licencing restrictions
<tsmithe> should i just extract the .orig and make modifications?
<jmantha> yeah
<tsmithe> ok
<tsmithe> i removed the directory, and the corresponding entries in the .i files; but the makefile is still thinking they're there!
<animimotus> hi
<animimotus> does exist a deb for KscannerButtons ? http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=44845
<tsmithe> errr...
<tsmithe> you could always ask apt-cache
<joejaxx> popularity-contest 
<joejaxx> does this go out without the users permission?
<joejaxx> user's
<tsmithe> well if you installed it, then no
<tsmithe> but yes
<Fujitsu> It will go out if you check the box in Software Sources, or install the package.
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: oh ok i just wanted to know
<joejaxx> because it is installed by default
<animimotus> [22:08]  <tsmithe> you could always ask apt-cache <----- sure I have search it. It seems it is integrated to OpenSuse yet
<tsmithe> well... if it's not in ubuntu you could always have a shot at packaging it
<proppy> wiki page about debian unstable sync request ?
<tsmithe> "!sync" perhaps
<tsmithe> !sync
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about sync - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<ryanakca> fabo: ping PasNox tells me that you've packaged monkeystudio in the past?
<proppy> found
<proppy> HowToMerge
<animimotus> tsmithe: I'm a standard user
<tsmithe> oh
<tsmithe> well you could always try
<tsmithe> :)
<tsmithe> i was too until two weeks ago
<tsmithe> when i tried
<tsmithe> animimotus, or you could just build from source
<ryanakca> animimotus: yeah... ./configure && sudo checkinstall
* ryanakca ducks
<ryanakca> rrrrg. Ok, I've figured out the problem. only thing is how to fix it. Problem: building creates obj-i486-linux-gnu, cd's to that directory, runs qmake-qt4 -o Makefile monkey.pro, but can't find monkey.pro, becaus monkey.pro is in the previous directory. If I change the rules to run qmake-qt4 -o Makefile monkey.pro, it then looks for obj-i486-linux-gnu/../../src, when infact, it should be looking for obj-i486-linux-gnu/../src.
<ryanakca> http://dpaste.com/3866/
<proppy> can i ask a sync, for a package that is new in debian unstable, and not yet in ubuntu ?
<proppy> or is this another process
<tsmithe> merge?
<proppy> tsmithe: merging isn't about applying ubuntu specifiq change to an updated debian package ?
<tsmithe> err yes
<tsmithe> as i said - i'm new
* proppy hugs tsmithe
* tsmithe hugs back
<tsmithe> :D
<jmantha> well, a merge would actually be appropriate if you needed to make a change for it to go into Ubuntu
<jmantha> a sync would be correct if it needed no changes
<proppy> jmantha: even if the package is *not* in ubuntu, it's called a sync ?
<proppy> cool
<proppy> (with no ubuntu changes)
<proppy> cool
<jmantha> yeah, at least that's my opinion
<proppy> thanks
<tsmithe> hey jmantha; what happened to being LaserJock?
<jmantha> oh, I don't know, it might come back
<jmantha> I'm using my other client
<sistpoty> jmantha ! *g*
<jmantha> stefan!
<sistpoty> jmantha: seems like I'm getting used to the new colors :P
<Adri2000> chantra: I'm not sure someone will upload such a debdiff (subtitleeditor) ;)
<tsmithe> on alsa-firmware-loaders, why is Bugs: set to ubuntu-users@l.u.c?
<tsmithe> surely it should be a link to malone?
<jmantha> we don't have a way to do that
<jmantha> exactly now
<jmantha> so currently that's the way it's set, I believe reportbug also sends bugs to ubuntu-users too
<tsmithe> but that's crazy!
<tsmithe> as people on lists tend to say
<tsmithe> lists aren't bug trackers!
<jmantha> exactly
<tsmithe> as it says mailto:... can't it just be changed to http:...
<jmantha> that's why we are working on automatic bug reporting tools
<tsmithe> yes
<animimotus> someone can help me for this error http://animimotus.pastebin.ca/282847 ?
<jmantha> well, I'm not sure exactly the reasoning but I'm pretty sure there is a reason they did that
<jmantha> it *was* intentional
<tsmithe> i'm sure
<tsmithe> animimotus, although i'm alright at french i'm not that good: it seems to think it can't open the repo, right?
<tsmithe> perhaps try running apt-get update
<jmantha> animimotus: did you run apt-get update?
<tsmithe> to regenerate the file
<animimotus> I have try yet
<animimotus> I have kill adept-notifier too
<animimotus> it's not the problem
<tsmithe> that file may have bad permissions (i don't see why though)
<tsmithe> if i'm modifying a package (in this case, alsa-tools), do i create patches, or just use the magic of the .diff.gz?
<Adri2000> tsmithe: patch is better
<tsmithe> hmm
<tsmithe> i'll need to learn how to do that then
<tsmithe> i knew it would be better
<tsmithe> (i thought so myself)
<tsmithe> but how do i create the patches
<tsmithe> i've modified a load of Makefile.in and .am files, and want there to be just one patch throughout the whole directory structure.
<tsmithe> how do i do that with dpatch?
<Adri2000> tsmithe: dpatch-edit-patch
<Adri2000> tsmithe: edit all what you want and exit
<tsmithe> cool
<tsmithe> but err.... is that by hand or does it make the diff first?
<Adri2000> dpatch-edit-patch 01_name_of_your_patch, you change all what you want with your favourite text editor, and dpatch will create the diff itself
<Adri2000> actually, it's not a simple diff, it's a script I believe
<tsmithe> so... i create a diff
<tsmithe> and than dpatch-edit-patch it
<Adri2000> no
<tsmithe> ok
<tsmithe> so how does dpatch know what to diff
<tsmithe> i haven't given it a go as i'm busy pbuilding :)
<tsmithe> ok
<tsmithe> i trie
<tsmithe> i tried
<tsmithe> but how do i do it with stuff i've already modified :(
<Adri2000> <tsmithe> so how does dpatch know what to diff < it will diff between the old source tree and the source tree after you made all your changes
<tsmithe> ok
<tsmithe> i'll create a new tree and do the changes again
<Adri2000> it's the easiest I think
<tsmithe> yeah
<tsmithe> argh! what is wrong with this: sed s/"\$(datadir)/alsa/firmware"/"\$(datadir)"/g Makefile.*
<tsmithe> it says "sed: -e expression #1, char 19: unknown option to `s'"
<geser>  / is the delimiter between the arguments for s
<tsmithe> so i should escape them
#ubuntu-motu 2007-12-10
<bddebian> Heya gang
<limac> hey
<blueyed> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hello limac, blue
<bddebian> err blueyed
<limac> hey
<blueyed> good night. ã (smiley copied from JanC)
<JanC> blueyed: and I copied it from Seveas  ;)
<bddebian> bunch of plagairists
<JanC> hehe
<blueyed> lol. thought so. must put this on some hotkey.. :)
<JanC> blueyed: if you use xchat, it has an auto-replace function
<blueyed> JanC: I want this everywhere..
<JanC> normally it's used to fix "teh" â "the" typos
<JanC> but I use it to make typing nice unicode symbols easier
<blueyed> Now I have it in konversation at least =)
<nenolod> hi, does anyone know if "# comments" are allowed in debian/control ?
<RAOF> nenolod: Yup.  Why wouldn't they be?
<nenolod> ok, thanks ;)
<LaserJock> nenolod: why do you want to add a comment?
<nenolod> LaserJock, "# $Id control v1.67 ... nenolod Exp $"
<nenolod> LaserJock, :)
<nenolod> e.g. RCSID
<LaserJock> man this channel is crazy tonight, woohoo
<StevenK> Ponies!
<LaserJock> gotta write some code to mash Fortran and Python together
<bddebian> ugh
<superm1> LaserJock, then does it become pytran or Forthon?
<LaserJock> hehe
<bddebian> Forth ;-P
 * bddebian wonders if anyone "gets" that
<StevenK> Boo, hiss
 * StevenK beats bddebian with a SPARC PROM manual
<bddebian> heh
<LaserJock> ohhhh, I think I love lambda functions
<RAOF> Quick, simple anonymous functions are lovely things.
<joejaxx> StevenK: lol
<joejaxx> how is everyone doing ? :)
<superm1> hey joejaxx
<superm1> you still got that BT keyboard you bought at UDS?
<joejaxx> superm1: yeap
<superm1> joejaxx, did you use it with ubuntu at all ever?
<joejaxx> no i have not
<superm1> joejaxx, ah i see
<superm1> i just bought one myself
<joejaxx> my laptop that has bluetooth is a Broadcom 4328 AGN
<joejaxx> so i do not know if bluetooth works as i have to use ndiswrapper
<joejaxx> ah ok
<joejaxx> how is that coming along?
<superm1> well it paired fine
<superm1> i picked up a cheap BT usb adapter
<superm1> and it works and all
<superm1> except for the fn key
<superm1> and consequently the fn buttons
<joejaxx> ah ok
<joejaxx> yeah
<dholbach> good morning
<LaserJock> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey LaserJock
<superm1> good morning dholbach
<dholbach> heya superm1
<TheMuso> Hey dholbach
<dholbach> hey TheMuso
<LaserJock> dholbach: is the new SRU policy that only 1 ~motu-sru ack is needed, or 2?
<persia> Do we have members of ~motu-sru yet?  (and I thought one)
<dholbach> persia: just announced it
<LaserJock> I wish we could do 2, but I guess that's already been decided
 * persia catches up on mail
<dholbach> LaserJock: pitti's proposal says "... require an ack from a team member before the upload is done"
<kagou> Good morning
<joejaxx> Good MOrning
<joejaxx> lsddjflskdjfskld
<joejaxx> Good Morning*
<dholbach> LaserJock: might be a good idea, if the new motu-sru team met once and decide on the workflow and everything - what do you think?
 * Fujitsu agrees that two acks is a good idea.
<imbrandon> moins all
<Fujitsu> yourebrandon!
<imbrandon> heh
<dholbach> congratulations LaserJock, imbrandon, jdong, TheMuso, dktrkranz btw :)
<StevenK> "No, *I'm* Brandon!"
<StevenK> Aww, my -sru hat is gone
<imbrandon> StevenK: hehe
<dholbach> StevenK: seems we didn't get your "hey, I'd like to" mail in time - but there's still motu-uvf :)
<LaserJock> dholbach: yeah, I think a little IRC meeting or at least an email discussion would be good to start things off
<dholbach> LaserJock: rock on - pitti will be delighted
<StevenK> dholbach: I didn't want to, though. :-)
<dholbach> StevenK: don't complain about missing hats then :)
<LaserJock> we need to figure out what to do with the 7 existing ~motu-sru bugs
<StevenK> dholbach: :-P
<joejaxx> StevenK: maybe it is just invisible :)
<dholbach> LaserJock: looks like you have an agenda already :)
<LaserJock> dholbach: yep
 * dholbach gets more coffee and some bits of breakfast
<imbrandon> heh yea
<imbrandon> LaserJock: are we just gonna use the -motu list ? e.g. where whould i mail a meeting proposal time? i think a short irc meeting to kick things off quickly would work and longer stuff on the ML
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I think using -motu is good
<imbrandon> k
<LaserJock> gives a chance for feedback
<LaserJock> the oldest bug sub'd to ~motu-sru is from 2007-07-25
<LaserJock> we should make sure the wiki is updated if it isn't already and let people know we're open for business
<LaserJock> and decide on what we want to do with the old ones
<LaserJock> I'm guessing just taking them as-is would be fine
<imbrandon> yea, you said there is less than 10 old ones? i say if they still apply ( e.g arent superceeded etc ) me and you could probably knock those out quickly
<imbrandon> and if they are old-ish then reject them asking for an update
<dholbach> LaserJock: you ROCK :)
<LaserJock> imbrandon: there are 7 (1 assigned and 6 sub'd)
<imbrandon> i'm just getting awake and havent opened a browser yet, but i'll check the queue first thing ( after email )
<imbrandon> LaserJock: cool, thats not too bad of a backlog
<LaserJock> imbrandon: no, not at all
<imbrandon> luckly i think all of us overlap nicely on irc so irc meetings shouldent be hard to setup
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> StevenK: wasent you reciently using qdvdauthor ? was it just using it or was you updating it ( there is a mail on -motu about adding a mplayer dep , and i am guessing that would kick it to multiverse )
<geser> good morning
<joejaxx> Good Morning geser
<imbrandon> heya geser
<LaserJock> it doesn't look like StableReleaseUpdates has been updated
<StevenK> imbrandon: I wasn't updating it, I was attempting to use it and wanting to kill myself.
<imbrandon> ahh hehe
<imbrandon> ok
<TheMuso> Thanks guys. Yeah a meeting sounds good, please keep me posted.
<TheMuso> Back in a while.
<superm1> imbrandon, would making it a recommend like I had mentioned to the poster kick it to multiverse too though?
<imbrandon> i dont think so
<superm1> i think that should be sufficient then
<imbrandon> but if the program is useless without it its kinda a depend not recomend
<superm1> well if you have preconverted files though
<superm1> i'm pretty sure it works out okay
<superm1> or if they are recorded in the correct format
<persia> superm1: "Recommends" still makes it multiverse: you need Suggests: (see debcheck output for examples)
<superm1> o
<imbrandon> ahh in that case might as well make it a depend, as "preconverted" files use case is slim
<persia> Really?  Remixing MPEGs from the digital camera or phone is that rare?
<imbrandon> persia: slimer than someone ripping a dvd and remixing it, yea, visit the forums hehe
<persia> imbrandon: Right, but which is the advertised normal use case?
<imbrandon> persia: both
<superm1> well also they still need to be the right resolution
<superm1> most phones or cameras dont shoot in 720x480
 * persia notes that ripping & remixing DVDs is usually outside accepted uses of the media
<persia> superm1: Good point.
<superm1> admittedly though someone will want to investigate this for sure.  i wouldn't expect mplayer to be used for the conversion, but rather ffmpeg or mencoder
<imbrandon> yea mencoder should be used imho, but who knows what they hardcoded in
<imbrandon> i havent looked
<imbrandon> either way though both are multiverse are they not?
<superm1> well yeah
<LaserJock> bah, I hate dealing with data that's larger than RAM
<imbrandon> LaserJock: heh
<LaserJock> I'm trying to parse a 350MB data file
<LaserJock> in python ...
<LaserJock> and not have it take a century to do
<LaserJock> or run out of RAM
<RAOF> LaserJock: You can't use the fun of iterators to do that?
<persia> LaserJock: parse it bit by bit
<LaserJock> persia: yeah, that's the hard part
<imbrandon> LaserJock: yea just grab chunks
<RAOF> Why am I unable to switch to a VT?
<imbrandon> RAOF: hardy? no idea, i noticed i couldent earlier
<imbrandon> too
<soren> RAOF: ConsoleKit, I belive.
<RAOF> Ah.  Yay.
<imbrandon> soren: ? ouch
<LaserJock> the data is actually 25k consecutive experiments that have 502 lines each and I want to average groups of them
<imbrandon> so when my X breaks i'm screwed heh
<soren> RAOF: You actually switch to another VT, but then ConsoleKit switches you back, IIRC.
<soren> imbrandon: No, in that case, you're fine, actually.
<RAOF> soren: Yeah, that's what it looks like.
<persia> LaserJock: Right.  Read 25k.  Set a couple variables, forget the 25K.  Read the next 25k.
<imbrandon> yea thats the behavure i noticed too
<imbrandon> soren: not really, i had some funky VerRefresh values and needed a VT
<soren> imbrandon: If X isn't running, you can switch VT.
<imbrandon> X was running but not usefull
<LaserJock> persia: yeah, my advisor wrote a fortran program to do that, but it writes each average to a file
<soren> imbrandon: Ah, point.
<LaserJock> persia: so I end up with 25k files and I need to do stuff on the data so I'd like to keep it available
<imbrandon> soren: is it the intended behavure? e.g is this a bug or a mis-feature ?
<soren> imbrandon: Bug.
<imbrandon> kk good :)
<soren> imbrandon: Ian fixed it in Gutsy, buyt his patch was dropped, afaics.
<imbrandon> ahh, yay for bad syncs heheh
<LaserJock> imbrandon: who needs a VT
<imbrandon> LaserJock: i do regularly
<imbrandon> :)
<persia> LaserJock: Rock and a hard place.  If you put it all in memory, you don't have any less.  To not have it doubled, read each chunk and stuff into an array, then reset, and load the next chunk.
<LaserJock> persia: yeah, I'm working on it
<superm1> imbrandon, could i grab you to look over the backport you were looking for a pbuilder log on again?  I attached it earlier today. bug 173684
<imbrandon> superm1: sure, i'm about to reboot but i'll grab it before i do
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173684 in gutsy-backports "Please backport mythstream 0.18.1 from hardy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173684
<superm1> ok cool thx
<\sh> moins
<imbrandon> superm1: done, ok brb rebooting
<RAOF> Anyone want to test the things needed for the kvm backport?
 * imbrandon dosent have the hardware to or i would
<soren> RAOF: Which version are you about to backport?
<RAOF> imbrandon: You can test that the new bochsbios works with the old qemu
<persia> RAOF: Might be worth pinging intuitivenipple (in -bugs or -devel), who has a fair bit of interest in kvm
<RAOF> soren: I was thinking the one currently in Hardy, why?
<imbrandon> <detached>
<RAOF> soren: Is there a new one in the works?
<soren> RAOF: I'll be uploading a new one either today or tomorrow.
<soren> RAOF: Upstream is shooting releases out like mad these days :)
<RAOF> soren: Right.  So, I'll kill that backport request, and check that the new one works on Gutsy.
<RAOF> :)
<RAOF> C'mon apt-file, finish updating so I can crash my videocard reverse-engineering the POST sequence.
<jonnymind> Helllo,
<jonnymind> I received an update on bug 174470 asking to "link the source package".
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 174470 in ubuntu "Package for the Falcon Programming Language" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174470
<persia> jonnymind: Add a link to the REVU candidate in the bug description.
<jonnymind> Should I provide a link to the revu entry?
<jonnymind> Ok, thanks.
<Fujitsu> Yay, namespace collision.
<jonnymind> Fujitsu: you mean me?
<soren> Wow, there's a shocker. vmware-tools doesn't build on hppa.
<Fujitsu> soren: That's *absolutely terrible*.
<Fujitsu> jonnymind: Right, I thought the falcon package I'd seen referenced was the repository generation tool.
<jonnymind> Oh.Ok, as I proposed, an alternate valid name may be falconpl.
<jonnymind> it's also the name of the site...
<soren> Fujitsu: Especially since I explicitly stated Architecture: i386 amd64. Go figure.
<jonnymind> fujitsu: may you please add a note on the bug, so I remember to upload a name-changed package this night?
<Fujitsu> soren: Did the sbuild notice that?
<Fujitsu> jonnymind: Oh, falcon is probably OK.
<soren> Fujitsu: Nope. http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10821083/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-hppa.open-vm-tools_2007.11.21-64693-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<jonnymind> fujitsu: acked. However, I am ready to change the name if needed.
<Fujitsu> soren: Hm. I knew Soyuz bits didn't respect the Architecture field, and I guess their mangled sbuild doesn't either.
<soren> Fujitsu: Well, it's a bit more complicated than that.
<soren> Fujitsu: It has an arch: all binary package in it, too, so dpkg cleverly sets "Architecture: any" in the .dsc.
<persia> soren: Get someone update P-a-s and reupload.
<soren> persia: I know, I know. I just still think it's silly.
<Fujitsu> soren: Oh, so it wasn't Architecture: i386 amd64.
<persia> soren: I completely agree with that :)
<soren> Fujitsu: There are two binary packages that are i386 amd64, and one binary-indep package.
<Fujitsu> Right, but Soyuz shouldn't have to think to look at the binaries.
<soren> Fujitsu: Agreed.
<soren> Fujitsu: ...but dpkg also shouldn't say Arch: any, when it's really arch: i386 amd64 all.
<soren> IMO.
<Fujitsu> It should be Architecture: i386 amd64.
<soren> I don't think it's a bug per se. Looking at the dpkg code reveals that it's quite intentional.
<soren> Fujitsu: Debatable.
<Fujitsu> Or possibly all too, but I don't think so.
<Fujitsu> Right;
<Fujitsu> s/;/./
<soren> I hadn't thought about the arch: all package when I started this light rant .)
<soren> s/\.)/:)/
<Fujitsu> sbuild could well bail out at the start if it is in fact an Architecture: i386 amd64 package.
<persia> Fujitsu: stock sbuild does
<Fujitsu> persia: Right, that's why I thought Soyuz's might.
<Fujitsu> But Soyuz's is very special with a `th'
<persia> Fujitsu: :)
<siretart_> persia: what is 'stock' sbuild?
<persia> siretart_: In my book, the currently shipped Ubuntu version (now hardy).
<siretart_> persia: heh
<imbrandon> moins siretart_
<persia> siretart_: It's fair to say that different people have different definitions of "stock", so sid, lenny, etch, dapper, and gutsy sbuilds would qualify for others.
<siretart_> persia: the packaged one in debian/ubuntu is actually a bastardised fork of the 'original' sbuild used on the debian buildds
<imbrandon> yea stock imho would be debian stable, anything else should be noted heheh , just kidding, current released ubuntu actualy imho
<siretart_> persia: however, it has many very useful features and bugfixes added, which the original one is lacking. and many buildd admins seem to run a locally modified version
<persia> siretart_: Makes sense.  I suspect Soyuz of sharing that parentage, but not having the experience of BTS and LP along the way.
<siretart_> I'd expect soyuz's sbuild to be a custom fork derived from http://db.debian.org/debian-admin/Packages
<siretart_> heyha imbrandon
<persia> siretart_: That would make the most sense.
<imbrandon> UDS-MTV was ~nov 2005 correct ?
<StevenK> imbrandon: Sounds about right, it was the one before Sevilla
<imbrandon> yea
<Fujitsu> Sevilla was April, wasn't it?
<Fujitsu> That makes it Nov 2006.
<imbrandon> eer yea 06 not 05
<imbrandon> good catch
<StevenK> Oh yeah, I forgot imbrandon can't count.
<Fujitsu> Heh.
<indraveni> hi all
<Fujitsu> Hi indraveni.
<indraveni> if I am creating a debian package which need to overwrite  a file created by any other package, then I am facing a problem, like, couldnot overwrite the file alacarte.mo creating by alacarte package.
<Fujitsu> indraveni: Don't overwrite said file.
<persia> indraveni: Why do you seek to overwrite the file (the correct method depends on the reason)?
<soren> indraveni: Explain how it "needs to overwrite a file created by another package"?
<Fujitsu> Particularly a translation.
<indraveni> I am done some localisation and withou creating the complete package for each and everyt
<indraveni> i am trying to convert the po to mo files and place them in the locales
<persia> indraveni: You really don't want to do it that way: you want to push your .po files to all the individual packages.
<imbrandon> man my mother-inlaw got my daughter a digital camera for xmass, i was just trying it out, this thing sucks, almost so bad as to not give it to her at all
<indraveni> yes, but my aspect it, just by installing one package, its should provide a localised desktop for gnome,
<indraveni> *is
<Fujitsu> indraveni: We have language packs for that.
<indraveni> persia, if i do as per your said, then I need to recompile each and every pacakge
<persia> indraveni: I understand, but the infrastructure doesn't support that well at all.  It'd be much better to push it all to GNOME with your localisations, so no extra package is required.
<indraveni> persia, yes, but it will take time, i feel
<persia> indraveni: Well, maybe, but more likely you can get others to recompile all the packages (and yes, it will take time).
<indraveni> persia, so there is no other way to remove this conflict ?
<persia> indraveni: Not for that purpose.
<geser> indraveni: if possible try to get your translation accepted by the gnome project so others benefit from it to
<jonnymind> Ppl, I sign off. Later.
<_polto_> hello all
<imbrandon> ello _polto_
<_polto_> hello imbrandon
<_polto_> Fujitsu, so i continue here..
<Fujitsu> _polto_: Most probably.
<\sh> Fujitsu, do you happen to know if there is a CVE pending for the latest drupal 5.3->5,4-> 5.5 fixes 5.4 fix?
<Fujitsu> \sh: I haven't looked, sorry. I've been a little busy over the past week.
<\sh> Fujitsu, me too :)
<\sh> Fujitsu, and I didn't find anything about it
<\sh> not even for the 5.4 fix
<Fujitsu> Checked security-tracker.d.n?
<\sh> not now
<_polto_> where is a new version of liblivemedia , this new release contain patches we needed for compatibility with our hardware. (network camera) I used PPA before to have our own patched version of liblivemedia, but i think others could also benefit of updates in the new version. Can somebody update libelivemedia to the last version ?
<\sh> nothing
<Fujitsu> !info liblivemedia-dev hardy
<ubotu> liblivemedia-dev: multimedia RTSP streaming library. In component universe, is optional. Version 2007.02.20-2 (hardy), package size 885 kB, installed size 3712 kB
<Fujitsu> Debian bug #453449
<ubotu> Debian bug 453449 in livemedia-utils "New upstream available" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/453449
<_polto_> live.2007.12.07
<_polto_> thanks !
<Fujitsu> I'll watch Debian, and if they don't act, I will. If I don't, poke in here in a couple of weeks.
<_polto_> cool, i'll do. thanks
<frenchy> Hi all, is today the last day to get advocates on REVU for hardy?
<\sh> Fujitsu, do you have the powers to upload to security testing somehow?
<Fujitsu> \sh: No, but I can modify stuff on the Debian security tracker.
<geser> frenchy: FeatureFreeze is around Valentine's day, so you still have some time
<\sh> Fujitsu, hmm...that doesn't help ;) we could need a universe-security queue, and later on our security team can push them to -security
<frenchy> geser: Thanks a lot!  Few, I thought that my days were numbered.
<Fujitsu> \sh: That would be nice. I suspect we will get that once security moves into Soyuz.
<\sh> ok cacti fixed ...the new fixes I have to check and let's see if I will request my first cve id ;_9
<Fujitsu> Yay!
<geser> frenchy: this week is DebianImportFreeze, that's when we stop automatically pulling packages from Debian, only on request after that
<proppy> geser: is the freeze already in place ?
<frenchy> geser: Thanks, I wasn't sure if that meant "new package freeze" but that's cleared it up.
<geser> proppy: afaik no, the wiki says Dec 14th
<proppy> geser: ok thanks :)
<\sh> CVE-2007-6279 CVE-2007-6278 CVE-2007-6277 hooray for libflac
<ubotu> Multiple double-free vulnerabilities in Free Lossless Audio Codec (FLAC) libFLAC before 1.2.1 allow user-assisted remote attackers to execute arbitrary code via malformed (1) Seektable values or (2) Seektable Data Offsets in a .FLAC file. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2007-6279)
<ubotu> Free Lossless Audio Codec (FLAC) libFLAC before 1.2.1 allows user-assisted remote attackers to force a client to download arbitrary files via the MIME-Type URL flag (--&gt;) for the FLAC image file in a crafted .FLAC file. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2007-6278)
<ubotu> Multiple buffer overflows in Free Lossless Audio Codec (FLAC) libFLAC before 1.2.1 allow user-assisted remote attackers to execute arbitrary code via large (1) Metadata Block Size, (2) VORBIS Comment String Size, (3) Picture Metadata MIME-TYPE Size, (4) Picture Description Size, (5) Picture Data Length, (6) Padding Length, and (7) PICTURE Metadata width and height values in a .FLAC file, which result in a heap-based overflow; and large (8) VORBIS Comme
<RAOF> asac: Ping!  I'd like to know about the status of firefox-dev, libxul, and xulrunner1.9 in hardy. (IE: what would you like me to build-depend on :))
<pochu> RAOF: xulrunner1.9 is now in main, and there are plans to port apps to it, AFAIK. So use it ;)
<pochu> asac: that's right, isn't it? ^
<asac> RAOF: yes, use xulrunner-1.9-dev
<asac> there might be a bit coding required ... (mostly build-system)
<asac> if you need support ask on #ubuntu-mozillateam
<pochu> asac: I need to port liferea to xul 1.9... any hints? :)
<asac> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XulrunnerGecko
<pochu> asac: thank you
<asac> pochu: i think lifearea is a bit tricky
<asac> you have to wait for python gtkmozembed
<asac> ??
<pochu> python? Liferea is C
<asac> really ... last time i looked it looked like a mix
<asac> if its just C the instructions should be good enough to start with
<pochu> asac: ok, I'll look into it. thanks again :)
<asac> pochu: see how far you get and ask for help if get stuck :)
<RAOF> asac, pochu: Thanks.  xulrunner-1.9-dev it is.
<RAOF> I wonder why miro goes to the trouble of having a --xine-driver commandline option when they hardcode the driver to "xv" anyway...
<RAOF> Oh, wow.  That looks like a bit of work.
<StevenK> RAOF: Hrm?
<RAOF> StevenK: Porting apps to xulrunner-1.9
<StevenK> RAOF: Ask asac for help.
<RAOF> StevenK: Oh, I will if I run into trouble.
<RAOF> The wiki seems fairly self-explainatory.
<RAOF> It just suggests that the Miro merge isn't going to be done tonight.
<persia> RAOF: I seem to remember tracking down some crasher with miro going through xine and into xv (or do I misremember).  Perhaps the hardcoding was to avoid that?
<RAOF> persia: There's a bunch of "XINE_DRIVER_HACK" code lying around there, yes.
 * StevenK has this feeling that he is starting too late to do a run through Maraudon
<RAOF> persia: But that was when Xine itself was dying in Xv.  So hardcoding Xv  as the driver you want deosn't seem like a good way to get around that bug.
<persia> RAOF: I thought the bug was xine not checking xv state properly, and by having miro do it directly, the bug wasn't exposed, but my memory for that is poor, as I'm not really familiar with any of miro, xine, or xv.
<RAOF> persia: Hm.  That's possible.  I do remember running through that bug, but not enough of the details.
<persia> RAOF: Then we're in the same state :)
<asac> RAOF: working on miro?
<RAOF> Still, the hardcoding doesn't make sense (and my patch to actually respect the --xine-driver commandline option won't influence any workarounds they have)
<RAOF> asac: Yup.
 * RAOF should probably mark this in LP.
<asac> RAOF: please get together with Ubulette ... he worked on this at some point
<asac> RAOF: was miro the application that uses python + C api of gtkmozembed?
<RAOF> asac: On the xulrunnerisation?  Cool.
<RAOF> asac: Yup, that'd be miro.
<asac> RAOF: yes ... he was waitinf for my python package
<asac> RAOF: i guess you will need it too
<asac> RAOF: i will ping you later today ... have to cleanup the patch and upload to ppa or something i guess
<RAOF> Great.
<RAOF> I'll fix up the rest of the merge, then see about xuling it.
<persia> Does anyone have Dell hardware?  I think http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=firmware-tools is mostly good, but I can't test (leftovers are confusing versioning scheme (hard to fix due to third party repos) and differentiating \- and \(hy in the manpage).
<asac> RAOF: yes ... make sense to do the merge and then the porting
<RAOF> asac: But block on the porting before uploading, right?
<dfiloni> persia: wxwidgets2.8 in REVU where is? I don't find it
<persia> dfiloni: hidden :)  http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=wxwidgets2.8 is the URL.  All my comments are in the bug.  I'm still curious if it's worth patching the autogenerated file.
<dfiloni> persia: do you think is good?
<persia> s/the bug/bug #133888/
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133888 in wxwidgets2.8 "upgrade wxwidgets2.8 to the 2.8.4.2 release" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/133888
<persia> dfiloni: I think so, I just don't understand if the dpatch is required or not.  Robin's latest comment makes me think not.
<dfiloni> persia: I used dpatch to fix wxPython/wx/build/build_options.py file
<persia> dfiloni: I know, but Robin says it is an autogenerated file, (although the build log makes it appear to be used).  I just don't know enough about that file to have an understanding of how it should work (and my WX knowledge is all on the C++ side: not the python bindings)
<dfiloni> persia: in the previous version (2.8.4) the file was fixed
<persia> dfiloni: I saw that, which is why I thought the dpatch was correct.  At this point, I'm hoping someone with more python knowledge than I will express an opinion.  If you're sure, just put a comment in the bug that it is the correct behaviour, and subscribe the sponsors queue (my build system can't handle that package anyway)
<dfiloni> persia: now I'm working at 2.8.7.1 version, but lintian show me a lot of warnings or errors that I want to fix
<persia> dfiloni: Thanks for that.  I agree with pochu that it's likely best to get 2.8.6.1 in now, and update later, rather than waiting (unless you're likely to finish in the next couple days).
<pochu> s/next couple days/today/ :-P
<dfiloni> persia: I don't think I can finish this weeks
<persia> dfiloni: Understood.  It's best to take the time to get it right, so let's move ahead with 2.8.6.1: it just needs confirmation that the dpatch is correct, and can be pushed to the sponsors queue.
<persia> pochu: Do any of your clients use the python bindings?  Can you verify the dpatch?
<StevenK> Queue!
<persia> StevenK: ?
<RAOF> Hm.  It seems UNSW is burning down.
<StevenK> persia: http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=1083
<StevenK> RAOF: Oh?
<imbrandon> persia: jono's name means Queue in lang
<persia> Aha!
<StevenK> Finnish
<jono> haha
<RAOF> StevenK: Well, either that or they've chosen an odd time of the day to run big firere drills
<StevenK> Er, yeah.
<Hobbsee> RAOF: that's not good.  i don't want o hear of any other disasters anywhere in sydney.
 * persia enjoys the complete lack of relation of finnish to nearly anything else
<StevenK> Hobbsee: The amount of tarps on roofs around here is disturbing me
 * Hobbsee also hopes that if we get another hailstorm, we get it soon.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: i havent' actually seen any - but i'll admit that i wasn't looking too hard.
 * RAOF obviously lives in the *safe* part of Sydney.
<StevenK> Where safe == boring
<RAOF> Or, alternatively, doesn't get around much.
<imbrandon> man this camera my mother-in-law got my daughter is horrible, here is the "test" picture i took with it a little bit ago
<imbrandon> http://www.imbrandon.com/images/album/unsorted/page/1/photo/work-area
 * Hobbsee hasn't dared to call the insurance company yet
<Hobbsee> StevenK: did westpoint lose power?
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Not that I noticed
<RAOF> Ok.  That's a night.  Bed awaits.
<StevenK> imbrandon: Is that a digital camera or a phone?
 * persia suspects most phones have higher resolution
<imbrandon> digital camera, for a 10 year old, just plain nasty
<StevenK> Er, yeah.
<StevenK> I could paint a better picture
<RAOF> imbrandon: Your theme is borken in ff-3 :).
<RAOF> Also.  Urgh.
<imbrandon> lol yea exactly, i'm pondering not giving it to her and just buying one for her myself, this thing is nuts, but i dont wanna piss of the mother-in-law
<Fujitsu> Uuurgh.
<imbrandon> RAOF: yea it is in IE7 too, i'll work a bit more on it tomarrow :)
<pochu> persia: you mean a python app using the wx bindings? I can try, sure.
<RAOF> Maybe it's an artistic phone?
<StevenK> imbrandon: Make/model?
<StevenK> Hell, my digital camera is two years old, and it does much better
<imbrandon> Model #98379 from Sakar International
<persia> pochu: Thanks.  That's the last bit of confirmation I think is required before it can be sponsored (as I'm not sure how to evaluate whether the dpatch is required).
 * persia 's phone is > 2 years old and does better
<StevenK> imbrandon: There's your problem
<imbrandon> yea i'm just not even gonna give this to her, hell it even has to have a special app in wine to get the pics off anyhow
<imbrandon> i can get hear a better one for $50 cheap
<imbrandon> thats linux friendly and tons better res
<imbrandon> s/hear/her
<pochu> persia: woops, spe uses 2.6 even if 2.8 is available :)
<imbrandon> i'll just keep this one on the shelf so if the mother-in-law ever asks about it
<imbrandon> i still have it arround :)
 * pochu wonders what to use instead...
<pochu> phatch... and I'm the maintainer :P
<ruoso> Hi... I'm the maintainer of gnome-mag in debian. The gnome-mag package in ubuntu does not support the colorblind accessibility filters... the latest version (just uploaded) supports it just fine with the colorblind applet... how does it work to get that features to ubuntu?
<persia> motu-sru team: should candidate SRUs be subscribed for approval?
<pochu> ruoso: is it that the schemas installation?
<ruoso> pochu, not only that, but also the linking with libcolorblind
<ruoso> the ubuntu version doesn't seems to be linked with it
<ruoso> the last upload is about the gconf schemas i mean
<DktrKranz> persia, I think subscribing motu-sru is enough, but there should be consensus on procedures
<pochu> ruoso: if nobody does it, I'll merge it with Debian tomorrow, so we get the fix.
<imbrandon> persia: yea subscribe so its in our queue
<pochu> dholbach_: it's your merge ^ wanna do it? If not, mind me doing it? :)
<ruoso> pochu, thanks... I've already tested in a friend's computer doing a backport to the latest stable... and it worked just fine (except that ubuntu seem to be using python2.5 by default)
<ruoso> and I needed to change the install file
<persia> Thanks DktrKranz, imbrandon.  Pending formal announcement of the procedure, I'll suggest subscribing the team while processing the sponsors queue.
<imbrandon> persia: sounds good
<DktrKranz> imbrandon, what about defining a preliminary roadmap to be discussed during next MOTU meeting?
 * persia likes the combination of team coordination with the general meeting to allow non-members to heckle :)
<imbrandon> DktrKranz: yea i think we should get a small irc meeting to get the plem roadmap going in the next day or so assuming we can get everyone on
<imbrandon> and then a more formal one etc at the next -motu meeting if needed/wanted
 * Hobbsee heckles persia
<persia> Hobbsee: My dead uncle could do a better job of heckling today.  Did you learn stage presence from a bear?
<persia> </stadtler>
<Hobbsee> :P
<Hobbsee> muhahahaha
 * Hobbsee wins.
<DktrKranz> imbrandon, I'll be in Rome without internet access on Dec 12/13, no problem to take it tomorrow or friday
<StevenK> persia, exit stage left
<StevenK> :-P
<pochu> persia: phatch works fine with python-wxgtk2.8. Updating the bug report.
<persia> pochu: Great!  Stick it in the sponsors queue, and we'll hope someone has a larger build-server quota than I :)
<pochu> persia: cool, doing it!
<ruoso> pochu, lool will be uploading a new version soon which fixes some other things (like python policy conformance).. you probably want to wait for him to finish before the sync...
<dholbach_> pochu: which merge?
<persia> dholbach: gnome-mag (although that may not help you unless pochy is around to see your response :) )
<dholbach> pochu: no, I'm happy if you take care of it
<pochu> dholbach: ok.
<pochu> persia: pochy? :P
<pochu> ruoso: sure, will wait for it.
<persia> oixgy: finger drift :)
<Ubulette> RAOF: what about miro ?
<StevenK> Ubulette: RAOF is undoubtedly in bed.
<Ubulette> oh
<StevenK> Ubulette: I can ring him if you like ... :-P
<Ubulette> nm, i'll wait
<StevenK> Ubulette: There was a :-P on that line for a reason. :-)
<Ubulette> :)
 * persia seeks julien lavergne
<slicer> Ok, I'm a bit of a noob.. If you install ubuntu-server, can you still apt-get/aptitude packages from the desktop edition in an easy manner?
<imbrandon> yes , exactly the same
<persia> slicer: It's just a different meta-package, with a different set of default applications (and a different set of things shipped on the CD).
<slicer> Can I quote you on that? I have a end-user who is being a .. er.. nice word... "problem"?
<persia> slicer: If you like, but I'm not sure how strong a quote is compared to your statement, or a pointer at the code :)
<slicer> Considering I've been told I know nothing about Ubuntu, it seems I'll have to quote outside sources.
<slicer> At times, it's really hard to keep a civil tone with some people.
<imbrandon> slicer: heh, sounds like you need a new class of people to associate with
<imbrandon> :)
<zul> morning
<imbrandon> moins zul
<zul> hey imbrandon how goes the battle?
<imbrandon> good good, bout to sleep for a few hours then work on some SRU stuff :)
<imbrandon> night all
<zul> ooooh..
 * persia seeks stephane brunner
<dsop> okay, today is revu day, so i'll try again. Please, is there some motu that's willing to review my package. I still search for a second advocate
<ScottK> dsop: Generally it helps if you also provide a link to the package on REVU.
<dsop> ScottK: okay, sorry.
<dsop> the package url is http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=gcutils
<dholbach> persia: seems he has not added his IRC nick to his LP profile :/
<persia> dholbach: Yep.  That's why he gets a general "* persia seeks ..." annoucement (although sometimes I do that when I'm just feeling lazy). :)
<dholbach> persia: hehe
<Ubulette> persia, about the menu stuff (in seamonkey), you just want me to use the new "Categories" in my desktop files, right ? like for ex chatzilla, s/Categories=GTK;Network;IRCClient;/Categories=Application;Network;Communication;/   ?
<persia> Ubulette: Sortof.  "Application" is a deprecated category.  I don't remember offhand, but I think I was suggesting updates to your menu files, as policy changed from "Apps/..." to "Applications/...".
<Ubulette> ix:~/bzr/seamonkey-1.1.dev/debian/menu_dir$ grep Apps/ *desktop
<Ubulette> ix:~/bzr/seamonkey-1.1.dev/debian/menu_dir$
<Ubulette> i'm puzzled
<Ubulette> persia: ^^
<mruiz> hi dholbach
<persia> Ubulette: menu, not desktop
<dholbach> hiya mruiz
<Ubulette> ohh
<mruiz> dholbach, do you have time to guide me with some questions about hardware-monitor ?
<dholbach> mruiz: sure - just ask, if it's not me who answers, somebody else will :)
<mruiz> ^^
<mruiz> dholbach, REPORT file says that we have conflicts with three files: debian/control, src/monitor-impls.cpp and src/monitor-impls.hpp
<dholbach> did you try resolving them?
<mruiz> also I consulted about them in the changelog
<\sh> woosah....documention: done, server move: done
<mruiz> dholbach, differences are related to "iowait" calls
<dholbach> mruiz: ah yes, I remember some bug about it
<mruiz> dholbach, I think bug 81599
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 81599 in hardware-monitor "hardware-monitor cpu monitoring should not include iowait" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/81599
<dholbach> mruiz: seems that http://launchpad.net/~jazzva is working on it too
<dholbach> mruiz: got a mail from him this morning
<mruiz> dholbach, but I said that I'm working on it -> DaD
<dholbach> mruiz: best to coordinate with Jazzva then
<mruiz> sure!
<dholbach> alrightie :)
<dholbach> looks like the patch still needs to be applied
<mruiz> yes... I was looking for information in Debian as well
<dholbach> nice
<mruiz> dholbach, I'll send an email to jazzva. I started to work on this merge during the last week
<dholbach> great - thanks a lot
<mruiz> dholbach, wait me a minute... I'm writing the email to avoid double work
<RainCT> hey
<mruiz> dholbach, email -> done :-)
<dholbach> great
<Volans> Hi, I'm administrator of Italian forum. I developed a Firefox extension to quickly browse sections provided by Italian Community. Extension is published on Mozilla Addons Sandbox, I would like to know if you think it is possible to include it into Universe repository.
<persia> Volans: Likely, but you might get better information on what is required in #ubuntu-mozillateam
<nxvl_work> dholbach: i was just looking for you
<Volans> ok, then I will ask first on mozillateam and after here?
<dholbach> nxvl_work: how can I help you?
<nxvl_work> dholbach: on saturday i will give a talk about patch systems, and as the audience is not a very expert one i will make a little packaging 101, and i'm wondering if you have some slides i can use for it?
<persia> Volans: We're happy to help, but only a small minority of us understand how to package a firefox extension.
<dholbach> nxvl_work: I'm sorry - I have no slides for it, but for the patch systems section I'd use https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems
<dholbach> nxvl_work: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes might also be interesting (the first two probably)
<nxvl_work> dholbach: yes, i was using the wiki pages for my slides, but i was looking for a quick and little packaging 101
<nxvl_work> well, i will base it on your IRC lessons
<nxvl_work> :D
<dholbach> nxvl_work: hehe, nice
<dholbach> nxvl_work: I'll put some effort into producing that kind of 'material' from the packaging guide, but it'll take a bit
<Volans> persia: thanks for your attention, for the realization I am in contact with Italians motu, I would like only to know if you think it is possible to include the deb package into Universe, when finished
<dholbach> nxvl_work: I'll definitely let you know
<persia> Volans: The criteria for inclusion is that two members of ~ubuntu-dev believe it to be useful.  As there are more than two MOTU from Italy, I'd be surprised if it had trouble reaching that, as long as it is actually useful.
<DaveMorris> apachelogger: I fixed the control file for cpptest - http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=cpptest
<apachelogger> DaveMorris: will take another look asap
<Volans> persia: thanks for the suggestion ;) i will ask the mozillateam for more specific requirement and after if all it's ok male the package itself
<Volans> *make
<persia> Volans: Great.  Thanks for taking the trouble to try to get your application into Ubuntu.
<nxvl_work> dholbach: i need to send my slides on Wednesday, so i will send you a copy also, to maybe they help you
<dholbach> nxvl_work: you're a hero, thanks for that
 * dholbach hugs nxvl_work
 * nxvl_work hugs dholbach back
<ScottK> nxvl_work: Did you see pitt's motu-school lecture on patching systems that's on the wiki?
<dholbach> Jordan turned Martin Pitt's lecture into https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems :-)
 * dholbach hugs laserRock
<ScottK> dholbach: Thanks.  Since everything's been moved, I have a hard time finding stuff anymore.
 * apachelogger notes that dholbach might be in huging mood ^_^
<coNP[uni]> Hey MOTus!
<apachelogger> ahoy coNP[uni]
<dholbach> ScottK: Martin's lecture should be still in the same place: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PatchingSources
<dholbach> so no need to despair :)
<ScottK> dholbach: OK.  Good then.
<dholbach> hey coNP[uni], hey apachelogger!
<persia> apachelogger: You happen to be the uploader for the least-recently-updated package on REVU.  Please upload a new revision :)
<nxvl_work> ScottK: where on the wiki?
<apachelogger> persia: which package would that be?
<nxvl_work> ScottK: on the motu-school web?
<nxvl_work> s/web/page/
<dholbach> nxvl_work: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School
<dholbach> most of the logs are tagged with CategoryArchive though
<dholbach> and were improved and put into the PackagingGuide namespace
<persia> apachelogger: libksquirrel
<persia> (err..  second highest on Needs Work.  Sorry)
<apachelogger> persia: upstream needs to release a new version first
<nxvl_work> dholbach, ScottK: thnx, i will take a look
<apachelogger> missing license copies and stuff
<persia> apachelogger: Ah.
 * apachelogger throws a comment in
<apachelogger> oh
<persia> apachelogger: Neither of your reviewers caught that :)
<apachelogger> actuall he did already
<apachelogger> persia: hehe, I'm all bitch about that, as Hobbsee noted - I got some packages rejected because of missing license copies
<apachelogger> meh
<apachelogger> cpptest is having far too many files :|
 * imbrandon really isnt here but persia if you would archive xbiso, i dont have the time to properly pay attn to it right now ( anyone else is welcome to adopt it if you know a up and comming motu hopefull )
<persia> imbrandon: Just leave a comment asking someone to adopt it.  There are quite a number of contributors who regularly troll REVU.
<imbrandon> k
 * persia notes that anyone who does adopt it will likely get an easy review from imbrandon
<imbrandon> yup lol
<Ubulette> could someone please archive seamonkey on revu ? asac sponsored it.
<persia> Ubulette: done
<imbrandon> ok note added http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=xbiso
<imbrandon> ^^ any MOTU hopfulls here is some low hanging fruit for you ^^
<persia> dholbach: Thanks for sending the ubotu note: it had slipped far to deep on my list.
<apachelogger> DaveMorris: advocated cpptest
<afflux> hi, any revu admin available for nuking/archiving http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=psi ? This upload wasn't intentional.
<persia> afflux: I'll archive it (I don't like nuking unless there's a good reason not to host it)
<afflux> persia: ah right, thanks
<persia> afflux: No problem :)
<Ubulette> is an lp bug needed for an upgrade 0ubuntu2 ?
<ScottK> Ubulette: If you are looking for sponsorship, yes.  Make a bug and attach the debdiff.
<Ubulette> it's not a merge, nobody is working in parallel on that
<apachelogger> Mez: is the mumble dev on irc?
<Mez> slicer, ping from apachelogger
<apachelogger> ah :)
<slicer> Huh?
<Mez> slicer, <apachelogger> Mez: is the mumble dev on irc?
<slicer> apachelogger: Ah. Hi.
<apachelogger> slicer: ahoy http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=mumble please at least address persia's 1+2
<apachelogger> then I might give an advocate ;-)
<slicer> Hold.
<slicer> Already done, just haven't uploaded it.
<slicer> As I didn't have a 3.7.3 compliant lintian to verify with.
<apachelogger> ok
<slicer> I still don't, but I can upload it... ;)
<apachelogger> slicer: hehe, I'll come back to you if lintian complains ;-)
<slicer> BTW, when we release 1.1.2 of Mumble, do we go through revu again or just submit a debdiff-ish patch somewhere?
<apachelogger> slicer: through revu again, but then it only needs one advocate AFAIK
<apachelogger> Mez: right?
 * Mez isnt sure
<apachelogger> Mez: about the revu or the one advocate? ;-)
<Mez> er... depends on who your sponsor is really
<Mez> tehre shouldnt be that many changes to the actual package... just the source
<slicer> The will-be diff for the debian/ directory is .. er.. 4 lines or so for 1.1.2
<Mez> changelog entry ?
<slicer> BTW, dh_makeshlibs complains something fierce about libmumble, but just ignore it. For some reason it expects libraries to resolve their symbols.
<DaveMorris> apachelogger: since norsetto advocated it before that small change does it mean it can be uploaded now?
<apachelogger> DaveMorris: no, he has to readvocate
<mruiz> dholbach, all changes are related to the inclusion of iowait (bug 81599). Then, we have to preserve Ubuntu changes and merge the package ;-)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 81599 in hardware-monitor "hardware-monitor cpu monitoring should not include iowait" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/81599
<shodges_> hey, i'm working on a project in my spare time, and will be looking for the correct way to package it in the near future...
<slicer> apachelogger: new mumble on revu.
<shodges_> The reason I ask is that it's not a single component, theres the core program "Medes", and numerous bundles of data files for each website - which will need to depend on the core package
<shodges_> I'm hoping to build numerous packages, one for each "data bundle" (essentially a collection of images and config files) with names matching the website they launch, like "googlemaps"
<shodges_> I was wondering what peoples thoughts were on this?
<slicer> Does it all come from a single .tar.gz?
<shodges_> no, i plan to separate the project into a core "medes-X.X.X.tar.gz" followed by "webapp1-X.X.X.tar.gz" "webapp2-X.X.X.tar.gz", etc
<shodges_> if that makes sense
<slicer> I may be wrong, but I think you then need to package each of them completely separately. You can easily make the webapp-blipp depend on medes.
<apachelogger> yup
<shodges_> thats great, thats exactly what I want to do. Cool, I'll work for that approach
<\sh> apachelogger, how was the amarok channel party? :)
<apachelogger> \sh: well, exhausting, but fun, but exhausting ;-)
<apachelogger> exhausting fun I'd say :P
<\sh> apachelogger, are you back at home or still near KA?
<apachelogger> nah, went home yesterday afternoon
<slicer> apachelogger: Are you looking at Mumble now, btw?
<\sh> apachelogger, shame..wednesday is another day at xmas market to kill some glÃ¼hwein ;)
<apachelogger> slicer: yes, but only the old version :P
<apachelogger> \sh: lol, I have to write a book report tomorrow ;-)
<slicer> apachelogger: Ah, ok. Do you want me to stick around?
<apachelogger> slicer: well if it's no problem for you, else I just toss my comments on revu
<\sh> apachelogger, I wanted to attend, but my GF had a party with her cameroonian club in cologne...so I was staying in cologne
<apachelogger> \sh: next time maybe ;-)
<apachelogger> slicer: dh_installexamples and dh_link don't do anything, please remove
<slicer> apachelogger: Thing is I have to eat sometime in the next two hours. And if you're looking through it right now, I'll postpone. If you're .. ok, you are. nevermind.
<\sh> apachelogger, give me a ring when you are nearby :)
<slicer> apachelogger: Done.
<apachelogger> \sh: aye :)
<apachelogger> slicer: you don't provide an init script, do you?
<slicer> apachelogger: Yes, it's in scripts/
<slicer> apachelogger: And copied into the debian/ dir so dh_..er..something finds it.
<apachelogger> ah, right, there
<apachelogger> slicer: does the demon run by default?
<slicer> apachelogger: Errr. Huh?
 * slicer builds the binary and checks to see what dh_installinit actually does.
<apachelogger> slicer: well, from what I see it shouldn't
<jpatrick> slicer: you can also view it's manpage
<jpatrick> "dh_installinit - install init scripts into package build directories"
<slicer> Aye, but it also says it sets up symlinks etc etc.
<slicer> So the question is, what exactly does it do? :)
 * apachelogger extracts the deb
<slicer> apachelogger: Ok, installing the murmur .deb will automatically call the init script.
<slicer> apachelogger: Which will start the server.
<apachelogger> ok
<apachelogger> bad thing
<apachelogger> IMHO this shouldn't happen without user interaction
<slicer> "aptitude install murmur" is user interaction? ;)
<apachelogger> as is aptitude icecast
<apachelogger> well
<apachelogger> IMHO
<slicer> Ok, so..
<slicer> Err.
<apachelogger> either you should provide a debhelper thingy to ask whether to activate it
<slicer> START_DEAMON=no added to the defaults and check it in the init script?
<apachelogger> or
<apachelogger> yep
<apachelogger> well
<apachelogger> slicer: what defaults?
<slicer> apachelogger: The ones I'm about to add?
<apachelogger> ok
<apachelogger> should go into /etc/security/
<slicer> Huh? Not /etc/defaults ?
<apachelogger> Ã¶hm
<slicer> That's what dh_installinit seems to indicate.
<apachelogger> or defaults
<apachelogger> slicer: defaults then ;-)
 * apachelogger didn't had a look into that for quite some time
<slicer> apachelogger: Ok. Here's the thing. Is there a way to determine if the script is called from the command line or if it's called from rc?.d ?
<slicer> Most init scripts which do have a defaults file simply exit unless the magic line in /etc/defaults/XX is set, and it's kind of annoying that when you manually /etc/init.d/package start, nothing happens.
<apachelogger> true
<apachelogger> but there is no way to determine AFAIK
<apachelogger> slicer: you might output an error message though
<apachelogger> so one at least knows what to do
<slicer> Ah, avahi has a good example. Stealing code.
<ScottK> slicer: I don't think that's most inits that do that.
<ScottK> Spamassassin is by default configured for spamd to do nothing, but that's an unusual case.
<ScottK> DKIM-Milter uses /etc/defaults and runs with nothing set in defaults.
<ScottK> For more examples.
<slicer> Er. I think it was pulseaudio.
<slicer> Which annoyed me, as I had to read the init script to find that it needed a defaults file.
<slicer> But avahi prints a warning, which is exactly what I want.
<slicer> I assume it's quite sane to check that value only in 'start'? Otherwise, you can get scenarios where the user first starts the service, then edits defaults, then has no way of stopping it.
<ScottK> If there is a reasonable default configuration, it's much better to set it up that way by default.
<apachelogger> slicer: true
<shodges_> Oh, another quick question. I was reading up about the PPA, it sounds really useful but there were a couple of things that weren't clear to me:
<shodges_> How many packages can you publish on it at any one time? I think its just 1, but not sure if I understood it correctly
<RainCT> shodges_: you've up to 1GB space
<DaveMorris> shodges_: the limit is set via space
<shodges_> ah ok cool
<DaveMorris> although I've got over 1GB
<shodges_> also, does it build packages for other architectures automatically? like i386/amd64/ppc? I havent tried using it yet, but thought i'd take a stab later tonight
<RainCT> DaveMorris: heh. well.. if they don't add a delete option they can't complain :P
<DaveMorris> Estimated archive size:              2.8 GiB
<Daviey> DaveMorris is a rogue user
 * RainCT is looking for a packaging bug
<shodges_> damn, some people have like 500 binaries in their ppa!
<shodges_> thanks for your help everyone, I think I have what I need to get started now
<slicer> apachelogger: Was there anything else, btw?
<apachelogger> slicer: didn't notice anything else, I'll have another look with the defaults stuff
<apachelogger> norsetto: hey, please have a look at cpptest
<norsetto> apachelogger: I advocated it already, was there a change that needs to be looked at?
<apachelogger> norsetto: yes http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=cpptest
<norsetto> apachelogger: did you build it already? If so and you have a .changes please upload it
 * apachelogger checks the directory
<apachelogger> yeah, built already ;-)
<norsetto> apachelogger: let me know when you have uploaded and I'll mark it as done and archive.
<RainCT> is current standards version in Ubuntu 3.7.2 or 3.7.3?
<jpatrick> RainCT: .3
<RainCT> ok, thanks :)
<apachelogger> persia: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=libksquirrel about 3): I doubt that thoose scripts/bins have very much use for anyone directly (also considering only one provides a --help anyway), so IMO it doesn't make much sense to include 16 manpages with mostly not existing content
<apachelogger> norsetto: it's in new
<slicer> apachelogger: It's on revu now.
 * apachelogger is going to set the bug to fix commited
<norsetto> apachelogger: danke
<slicer> I'll go get something to eat, back in 30 minutes or so.
<apachelogger> norsetto: hehe, yw ;-)
<apachelogger> DaveMorris: thanks for your work :)
<RainCT> Can someone please tell me a translation into German for "Application for partitioning a disk" (starting with a verb preferably, for a menu entry)? (I'd probably make at least 1 writting mistake :P)
<DaveMorris> np, now to get my other 2 accpeted
<norsetto> RainCT: whats a writting mistake ?
<RainCT> norsetto: that lol
<Nightrose> RainCT: "Programm zum Partitionieren einer Festplatte" - canÂ´t think of one starting with a verb
<Nightrose> would sound strange
<apachelogger> well
<apachelogger> the english version doesn't start with a verb
<apachelogger> how could the german? :P
<Nightrose> well different language means different structure of sentences sometimes
<Nightrose> but not always ;-)
<apachelogger> Nightrose: smart ass :P
<RainCT> well.. the Catalan translations I added starts with a verb :)
<Nightrose> *lol*
<DaveMorris> apachelogger: who handles backports of new packages we upload?
<apachelogger> DaveMorris: the ubuntu-backports team
<DaveMorris> do they auto do it or do I need to ask them?
<apachelogger> ask, via bug report
<DaveMorris> thanks
<apachelogger> attach the changelog and a build log, ensure it build/installs/works properly
<apachelogger> ScottK knows all the magic ;-)
<ScottK> DaveMorris: Feel free to ping me with the bug number when it's done.
<RainCT> uhm.. if a menu entry needs root privilegies, how can I achieve this so that it works for both GNOME and KDE?
<ScottK> RainCT: Look at disk-manager on REVU.  They have a disk-manager-root script that works through that.
<ScottK> I don't know a simpler way.
<RainCT> ScottK: will look at it, thanks
<ScottK> RainCT: I think that it could, perhaps, be abstracted into a useful general solution for the problem.
<ScottK> RainCT: When you look at it, be sure to look at the Kubuntu integration patch in debian/patches.
 * RainCT doesn't like the idea to add a python dependency
<jonnymind> Good evening to all.
<apachelogger> RainCT: just add another desktop file
<RainCT> hm.. it should work if done in bash, or?
<apachelogger> one only shown in KDE
<apachelogger> using kdesudo
<apachelogger> and another shown elsewhere using gksu
<RainCT> s/it should/should it/
 * RainCT blames Qt for now showing in which source file each translation is.. :(
<RainCT> new question, any good tool for searching in many different files?
<geser> rgrep aka grep -r doesn't work?
<RainCT> geser: great, thanks!
<RainCT> ScottK: eh.. why is that kde integration patch requried? I have kdesu but not kdesudo with kde-base installed
<slicer> apachelogger: I'm back, but I got called back to work. Could you just post your comments on revu?
<ScottK> RainCT: Are you on Feisty or Gutsy?
<apachelogger> slicer: sure
<slicer> apachelogger: Thanks.
<ScottK> RainCT: The XAUTHORITY bit is the most important part.
<RainCT> ScottK: Gutsy
<ScottK> RainCT: I'll have to look into that then.  I thought we switched to kdesudo (I have both).
<RainCT> I'll go with this  http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/47714/   (the last line is just a test, of course)
<RainCT> perhaps not very nice, but well.. it works :)
<ScottK> RainCT: Now what about Xubuntu and Fluxbuntu?
<ScottK> ;-)
<RainCT> what do those use?
<ScottK> RainCT: No idea.  I know imbrandon knows about Fluxbox.
<RainCT> imbrandon: ping? :)
<ScottK> RainCT: I think sommerville32 knows about Xubuntu.
 * RainCT is asking in #xubuntu..
<RainCT> ScottK: Xubuntu uses gksudo
<ScottK> OK.
<geser> Hi bddebian
<macd> I see flash 9r115 in the repos but gutsy still wants to install r48, (which also has the md5 bug) but manually installing http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/multiverse/f/flashplugin-nonfree/flashplugin-nonfree_9.0.115.0ubuntu2_i386.deb works fine
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bddebian> Hi geser
<pochu> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Hi pochu
<pochu> macd: there's a backport request I think
<macd> r115 is for hardy, r48 causes some sites music to not play, would it be approriate todo a gutsy backport?
<macd> pochu, you must have been typnig at the same time ;P
<macd> I've been looking on LP for a bug that has a backport request, but can't seem to find it
<ScottK> macd: Are you looking in the gutsy-backports project?
<macd> ScottK, most likely not, could you point me there
<ScottK> https://bugs.launchpad.net/gutsy-backports
<ScottK> macd:  ^^^
<macd> tyvm
<macd> no results for flashplugin, I'll just file one
<macd> is there a particular team/person should be assigned? desktop-bugs or?
<ScottK> macd: No.  Just file the bug.  If you can test the hardy package on gutsy, then mark it confirmed.
 * macd already did that ;P
<macd> installs/removes/purges fine
<macd> Is there anything like a normal bug i.e. debdiff or anything that it needs?
<ScottK> No.  The archive-admins have a magic script.
<ScottK> macd: Does it run?  That's the other key point to test.
<macd> yes, it runs and fixes the issue in the gutsy version
<ScottK> macd: Say all that in the bug and I'll approve it to go to the archive admins.
<macd> just reading through some of adobes changes, I can't see how noone reported a bug earlier
<ScottK> macd: They probably just whined on forums that no developer reads rather trying to help solve the problem.
<macd> ScottK, yeah typical users ;P, the bug report already has that it fixes the issue, and that it works on gutsy :)
<ScottK> macd: What bug #?
<macd> bug 175370
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 175370 in gutsy-backports "Please backport flashplugin-nonfree from Hardy to Gutsy (i386)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175370
 * ScottK looks
 * ScottK approves
<ScottK> macd: Now it's just when the archive admins have time to look at it.
<macd> ty :)
<torkel> hm, shouldn't flashplugin-nonfree have been built for amd64 by now too?
<macd> looks like the hardy one has problems with konq/nspluginwrapper
<ScottK> torkel: AMD64 seems to be lagging significantly right now.  Not sure why.
<RainCT> how can I let a package remove some files when it gets purged?
<ScottK> RainCT: Look at the postrm in most any package with a conffile.
<RainCT> ScottK: ok, thanks. can you think of any small package with a conffile? :P
<pochu> pbuilder
<pochu> err, did you say small? :-)
<RainCT> heh
<pochu> Installed-Size: 984
<pochu> In fact it's easy :)
<pochu> I think that's KB though
<RainCT> uhm.. I can't find any special there..
<RainCT> except a "pbuilder-uml.files" file :P. what's a files file? xD
<RainCT> ah, I see. Â«it is used while building packages to record which files are being generated. [...] It should not exist in a shipped source packageÂ». is this a bug in pbuilder's package ? :P
<RainCT> ScottK: it seems that conffiles are removed automatically when purging..
<ScottK> RainCT: Look at dkim-milter's source package.
<RainCT> but I need to remove log files :(
<ScottK> It give you the basic script for checking if your are purging.
<RainCT> thanks ScottK
<ScottK> RainCT: No problem.
<warp10> Hi all!
<norsetto> hey warp10, welcome back
<warp10> Hi norsetto, thanks! It has been a long (lost) fight against a bad adsl usb modem :(
<RAOF> Ubulette: Still here?  I just heard that you were working on xulrunnering miro, and I'm merging it now.
<RAOF> (For some sufficiently generalised concept of "now")
<maiatoday> norsetto?
<norsetto> maiatoday: yes m'am?
<maiatoday> will you look at my debdiff pastebin for bug 133935, please
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133935 in libimage-exiftool-perl "missing xmp2iptc.args and iptc2xmp.args" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/133935
<norsetto> maiatoday: sure, just few sec. and I'll check it out
<maiatoday> ty, http://pastebin.com/d400ed2ae
<norsetto> maiatoday: can you remember me the bug number?
<maiatoday> 133935
<norsetto> bug 133935
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133935 in libimage-exiftool-perl "missing xmp2iptc.args and iptc2xmp.args" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/133935
<norsetto> maiatoday: this is a single binary package?
<Flare183> bug 110377
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 110377 in p7zip "sfx module not found" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/110377
<maiatoday> norsetto, uhm not sure?
<maiatoday> ls
<norsetto> maiatoday: you can use apt-cache to check it (there are also many other ways)
<maiatoday> oops
<norsetto> maiatoday: for instance "apt-cache showsrc libimage-exiftool-perl" tells me there is only one binary
<maiatoday> norsetto, ok I see
<norsetto> maiatoday: that makes a difference if you have to make sure that the examples are installed in a certain binary package only
<norsetto> maiatoday: these two files, are they in the root of the source tree?
<maiatoday> norsetto, yes
<norsetto> maiatoday: ok, just two little things
<norsetto> maiatoday: 1) we fix this for the development release
<norsetto> maiatoday: which means ....?
<maiatoday> oops s/gutsy/hardy
<norsetto> maiatoday: ok
<norsetto> maiatoday: 2) You need to list all changes in the changelog
<maiatoday> ok so that includes the maintener field change too like you said last time?
<norsetto> maiatoday: yes
<maiatoday> norsetto: okeydokey brb
<norsetto> maiatoday: I don't see it in the pastebin, but how wide is it your changelog ?
<norsetto> maiatoday: never mind, it fits in the 80 columns limit
<maiatoday> norsetto: I didn't make mine wider than what was there before, but I'll try to remember 80 col
<norsetto> maiatoday: I'm really nittypicking here, but instead of " * add rules to put xmp2iptc.args and iptc2xmp.args in /usr/share/doc/libimage-exiftool-perl on installation. (Closes: #133935)
<norsetto> maiatoday: I would just say "* add installation of example files (xmp2iptc.args and iptc2xmp.args) (LP: #133935)
<norsetto> maiatoday: note that the correct syntax is LP: #xxxxx
<maiatoday> norsetto: how would you phrase the maintainer field change?
<norsetto> maiatoday: there is a standard text that update-maintainer use
<norsetto> maiatoday: Modify Maintainer value to match the DebianMaintainerField specification
<maiatoday> norsetto: ok I'll go look for it
<norsetto> maiatoday: a last one, the way you did it is allright, but you could also do it differently
<maiatoday> norsetto: with the examples file instead?
<norsetto> maiatoday: yes
<norsetto> maiatoday: its pretty much a question of personal taste
<maiatoday> norsetto: I thought since it was just two files rules would be ok
<norsetto> maiatoday: for me it is, but some people don't like to fiddle with rules too much
<norsetto> maiatoday: just leave it as is, but be prepared to defend your choice :-)
<ScottK> maiatoday: I usually use, "*  Changed maintainer to MOTU"
<StevenHarperUK> Can anyone here remove a PPA upload?
<DaveMorris> StevenHarperUK: goto #launchpad
<norsetto> StevenHarperUK: don't think so, try #launchpad
<StevenHarperUK> ta
<norsetto> maiatoday: before uploading the debdiff and subscribing u-u-s, just check that it builds and installs correctly (you can also check it with dpkg -c)
<maiatoday> norsetto: ok, I will recheck build and install, thanks for meticulous crit :)
<norsetto> maiatoday: no, thx to you for *your* work :-)
<bigon> keescook: hi, shouldn't be a good idea to take a new svn snapshot for gtimelog?
<keescook> bigon: probably, but I haven't checked on the upstream svn repo.
<norsetto> scottk: do you remember why we never uploaded wine-0.9.46+ ?
<ScottK> norsetto: IIRC we released Gutsy with the latest there was at the time.
<ScottK> norsetto: I've asked Scott Ritchie to prepare newer packages for Hardy, but haven't seen any.
<norsetto> ScottK: ah ok, I thought 0.9.46 was much older than that
<ScottK> norsetto: No, but I'd love to get some newer stuff in Hardy and then backport it.
<norsetto> ScottK: well, I just used his package on revu to make 0.9.50 for personal use
<norsetto> ScottK: not that it makes any difference on my machine ....
<ScottK> norsetto: I didn't know he had a package on revu
<ScottK> \sh_away: What do you think of the WINE 0.9.50 package on REVU?
<ScottK> norsetto: If \sh_away likes it, I'll look at it for sponsoring.
<norsetto> ScottK: its 0.9.49 on revu
<ScottK> Ah.
<ScottK> \sh_away: .49 then
<ScottK> norsetto: OK.  Maybe you should look at uploading the package you made then.
<RainCT> good night
<norsetto> ScottK: I just dropped in the new tarball (its out since few days only), didn't check if there was a need to do something else
<ScottK> norsetto: OK.  Well let's see what \sh_away has to say.  You need to talk him into re-applying for MOTU.
<norsetto> ããã°ãã¯ proppy-san
 * persia notes for general consumption that it's not important for a description to start with a verb, so long as it is a verbal phrase, and that people should examine app-install before installing two .desktop files for a single binary, as it may have unintended effects.
<proppy> norsetto: oyyyy
<norsetto> Oh man, don't you love altavista, try this: good evening -> (Japanese) ããã°ãã¯ -> (English) It is dense, it is, it is
<Ubulette> ä»æ©ã¯ã¿ããª  (I didn't know this channel was utf8 compliant. ãããã)
<proppy> norsetto: my kana input is off, can't remember the crazy command to put it back :)
<persia> ããã«
<persia> Err..  Please use English in this channel (and why doesn't kanji completion work today)
<norsetto> ubulette: you are telling this to somebody in particular?
<Ubulette> no, to everyone, but just for fun. do you read japanese ?
<norsetto> ubulette: well, had fun at looking at the automatic translation :-)
<proppy> Ubulette: so sad I can't read kanji yet
<Ubulette> i barely have an occasion to practice my japanese.
<Ubulette> same for chinese btw
<Ubulette> even worse
<persia> proppy: Learn three characters a day, every day.  In a year, you'll know more than the average Japanese person.
<proppy> persia: we finished the kanatana training today
<Ubulette> I knew the famous 1845 a couple of years back but I forgetting fast :(
<Ubulette> 'm
<proppy> persia: I will play 'kanatest' everyday to the final test next week :)
<persia> proppy: That's the spirit
<proppy> persia: have you try apt-get install kanatest ?
<proppy> persia: it's great really
<Ubulette> kana could be learned in less than 3 hours providing motivation (read + write)
<Ubulette> kanji could take forever
<persia> proppy: Yep.
<proppy> Ubulette: If you know a good method let me know
<proppy> Ubulette: I'm stalling filling page and page of the same kana for learning them one by one
<Ubulette> proppy, you're french right ?
<proppy> Ubulette: learning them in sequence was good at the beginning but it's hard then to random access them
<proppy> Ubulette: yep
<Ubulette> proppy, Yves Maniette wrote a small book for kana in 3 hours.
<proppy> http://maniette.fr/ ?
<proppy> cool
<proppy> thanks for the hint
<Ubulette> his kanji book is good too but just to write and recognize, not read
<Ubulette> "les kanji dans la tete"
<proppy> Ubulette: what is the title of the kana book ?
<Ubulette> i don't know if it's released. I had a preview from Yves to beta test. Let me check
<proppy> woo beta pdf :)
<proppy> hope there is an bzr branch available :)
<proppy> Ubulette: http://www.nanzan-u.ac.jp/SHUBUNKEN/publications/miscPublications/Remembering_the_Kana.htm
<proppy> Remembering the Kanji I: A Complete Course on How Not to Forget the Meaning and Writing of Japanese  Characters
<proppy> rench adaptation:Yves Maniette
<proppy> I see, there are french adaptation of foreign book
<Ubulette> there are tons of books for kana. I don't think it's that useful. kanji on the opposite, yes
<proppy> Ubulette: it's always worth to have something to read on something you learn :)
<proppy> I mean for me it's worthy
<norsetto> proppy: zen and the art of debian packaging?
<SWAT> I want to add a mysqldump command to a package rules (to backup the old database upon installation), but this requires the mysql (root) password. What's the nicest way to handle this? Just let the user fill in the password?
<proppy> norsetto: zen and the art of packaging windows software ? :)
<norsetto> proppy: what does it mean actually? zen I mean ....
<proppy> norsetto: I use to read a graphics programming book from M Abrash  who talk about zen timer programming :)
<norsetto> proppy: oh my, the ineluctable fps
<persia> norsetto: x52pro advocated on REVU (The test won't link).  Tested great, with a couple wishlist notes.  Feel free to fix them or not :)
<norsetto> persia: only a couple!?
<persia> norsetto: As usual, your packaging doesn't cause me to complain :)  It's just that the examples don't work by default :(
<norsetto> persia: strange, it works for me, what is the problem?
<persia> norsetto: "" vs. <> for one, and the need to manually track down the /usr/lib/foo.so links for the other.
<persia> norsetto: With a small edit, and the right command line, it worked for me.
<persia> (but it's just an example, so not likely critical)
<norsetto> persia: I see, I wonder why it didn complain with me though
<persia> norsetto: Interesting question.  I got lots of "undefined symbol" errors from ld.
<norsetto> persia: no no, its good to know, this needs fixing
<persia> norsetto: Fixing is good :)  I'm not sure that a packaged client would encounter the issues though.
<proppy> Ubulette: I downloaded the english version
<persia> norsetto: I just noticed: the -dev might want to depend on libusb-dev as well.
<norsetto> persia: ah ah, that could be the problem
 * Flare183 is away: Gone away for now.
<persia> norsetto: It's not the entire problem: gcc -o x52test x52test.c still didn't work with that installed.  There's likely something about hints odd as well (but I don't understand what)
<norsetto> persia: I had forgotten I installed that when I first tried out the compilation from source
<norsetto> persia: well, you need to add -lx52pro of course
<proppy> norsetto: persia: Ubulette: have a good night
<norsetto> proppe: bonne nuit bon proppy
<proppy> I have to attend to leweb3 tomorrow, I should go to sleep
<persia> norsetto: Right.  I'm an idiot :)  Never mind then: just the dependency should do it.
<Ubulette> proppy, oyasuminasai
<persia> Err, and s/""/<>/
<norsetto> persia: thanks for that, I had totally forgotten it
<persia> norsetto: No problem.  Thanks for backporting it to work with my kit :)
<norsetto> persia: well, now I can switch off the bloody leds when I startup linux :-)
<persia> norsetto: you don't like basking in the full dawn glow of your joystick?
<proppy> Ubulette: hay jane bye bye
<Ubulette> proppy, dream in kanji :)
<norsetto> persia: hehe, got all lights dimmed but the one in the corridor outside (my wife thinks I'm lonewolfing already)
<cdm10> So, I've learned how to make a package using dh_make to generate the debian filestructure, python distutils to create the installer, and dpkg-buildpackage to build the package.
<cdm10> However, if I make some changes and want to create another version without going through the process of changing the rules file and all that, what do I change to change the version name so I can just change it and dpkg-buildpackage it again?
<persia> cdm10: Every time you run dpkg-buildpackage -S it will generate a new source, including any changes you've made.  If you've released it, and need to force a revision update, add a changelog entry with dch -i (but you likely don't need this).
<cdm10> persia: Well, I just want my new package to supercede the old in my PPA, which necessitates bumping the version number.
<persia> cdm10: That would be publishing it (in the PPA).  Just add a changelog entry, describing the changes, and with a new version number.
<persia> s/version number/revision number/
<cdm10> persia: alright. What if I make a new version of the program and want to bump the version, say, from 0.1 to 0.2 rather than the revision number (0.1-1 --> 0.1-2)
<persia> cdm10: If you're upstream, that works.  I'd suggest you want 0.1-1 -> 0.2-0private1, so that you could later upgrade to 0.2-0ubuntu1 if you were to put it in the repositories.
<cdm10> persia: I'm not really asking about what to do when it comes to bumping version numbers... I just want to know how to do it. Like, what files to change, what commands to run, before I run dpkg-buildpackage.
<RAOF> cdm10: In that case, the answer is: debian/changelog.  That's where the package version comes from.  It may complain if it can't find an appropriately versioned .orig.tar.gz, though.
<cdm10> ok
<RAOF> cdm10: Bumping the upstream version is the same as bumping the revision.
<bigon> keescook: I've made a new snapshot for gtimelog, I will try to push it in debian
<cdm10> RAOF: can you explain the names of the parts of a package version? a-b-ubuntuc
<cdm10> or ppac or cdmc or whatever
<keescook> bigon: cool :)
<RAOF> cdm10: $UPSTREAM_VERSION-$DEBIAN_REVISION[ubuntu$UBUNTU_REVISION] is the general format.
<cdm10> RAOF: alright. So, if I'm releasing packages in my own PPA, what should my versions be?
<norsetto> cdm10: you may want to add a ~ppaXY to that
<persia> Or even $UPSTREAM_VERSION-$DEBIAN_REVISION[$VENDOR$VENDOR_REVISION] to generalize.
<cdm10> so, if I'm writing an app that I'm packaging myself for my own ppa, I do: $upstream
<cdm10> damn
<cdm10> enter key got in the way
<cdm10> $appversion-ppa$package-revision
<RAOF> And for packages not in the official archives you generally want to have a ~ somewhere in your version string, so that you don't block an official version.
<cdm10> so if i change something about the packaging but not the app, i change the $package-revision?
<RAOF> Yes.
<RAOF> I'd suggest $appversion-0~ppa$package-revision, though, since it's got a debian/ubuntu revision of 0.
 * persia notes that $appversion-0ppaX sorts lower than both -0ubuntu1 and -1 and doesn't require the use of the confusing ~
<RAOF> True.  Although I'm not sure how confusing `~` really is.
#ubuntu-motu 2007-12-11
<persia> RAOF: Maybe, but sort the remainder normally, but always before the precedent (but not before anything that would otherwise sort before the precedent) isn't as obvious to some people as it perhaps is to you.
<RAOF> Or maybe I use an imprecise but useful rule of thumb of "anything after & including the ~ is less than any other string, including nothing".
<persia> RAOF: That could be it, but I'm still not sure "less than nothing" is obvious to non-mathematicians (where "mathematicians" includes lightly dabbling amateurs)
 * Fujitsu goes by '~' < '', which is I believe the proper rule.
<persia> Fujitsu: Yes, it is.
<norsetto>  yes, I think its bed time
<norsetto> g'night all
<zul> evening
<pwnguin> StevenK: your blog is fired.
<pgquiles> how do I invoke a shell and run a command before "make build" in a CDBS+autotools.mk package? (this is the debian/rules: http://pastebin.ca/811562). I've tried "makebuilddir/packagename::" but it does not work :-/
<StevenK> pwnguin: I don't have a blog.
<LaserJock> but you should
<LaserJock> so you can get ponies
<slangasek> fired ponies?
<zul> blogs are overrated
<LaserJock> zul: really? they are email 2.0
<LaserJock> ;-)
<zul> meh
<zul> since when? ;)
<bddebian> pgquiles: First, stop using CDBS ;-P
<LaserJock> zul: since like Y2k or something
<pgquiles> bddebian: annoying, I know. I didn't package it in the first place and I'd like to build a CVS version of the software but CVS version require to run command in a shell before ./configure is invoked :-/
<azeem> pgquiles: you could just run that command manually and add the outcome in the .diff.g
<azeem> z
<pgquiles> azeem: no, because there are symlinks
<azeem> like?
<persia> pgquiles: put it in a makebuilddir/foo:: rule.  This runs between unpack and configure:
<pgquiles> persia: it's not executed, I don't know why
<bddebian> persia: He said he tried that and it didn't work
<pgquiles> azeem: like  install-sh -> /usr/share/automake-1.9/install-sh
<azeem> pgquiles: are you running autoreconf?
<bddebian> Bah, that's dumb
<azeem> or autogen.sh or something
<pgquiles> azeem: autogen.sh, yes
<azeem> there's an option to force a copy instead of a symlink
<azeem> pgquiles: you might have to change the auto* invocations inside autogen.sh then
<azeem> if it's not just running autoreconf anyway
<pgquiles> azeem: I've tried AUTO_UPDATE_ACLOCAL, etc but it fails because of not included .m4 but I don't know how to pass parameters to ACLOCAL with AUTO_UPDATE
<azeem> isn't AUTO_UPDATE_ACLOCAL deprecated
<pgquiles> azeem: what do you mean with "you might have to change the auto* invocations inside autogen.sh then"?
<azeem> pgquiles: what *is* inside autogen.sh?
<azeem> I can't look into it for you
<pgquiles> azeem: autopoint --force; shell libtoolize --copy --force; aclocal -I m4 -I gnulib/m4; shell autoheader; automake --add-missing;  autoconf
<azeem> huh, autopoint?
<pgquiles> from gettext
<azeem> ah
<cdm10> I need some help using dch
<azeem> well, there's a bunch of programs being run starting with "auto", aren't there?
<cdm10> dch -U isn't adding a new release, just a new bulletpoint under my existing one
<pgquiles> I've tried with the makebuilddir/foo:: and $(shell thecommands) but it didn't work
<azeem> pgquiles: apparently your trouble is with automake, so see how to invoke automake to copy the missing files rather than generating symlinks
<pgquiles> azeem: probably, but every single one I found already has ./configure in
<RAOF_> pgquiles:
<azeem> pgquiles: ...being run *by autogen.sh*
<RAOF_> pgquiles: Ah, you're trying to generate the (autotools) buildsystem in debian/rules?
<cdm10> oh, never mind, got it :)
<pgquiles> RAOF_: yes, that's it
<RAOF_> pgquiles: That's generally not a fun thing to do.
<azeem> if you use CDBS
<pgquiles> that's the problem, CDBS
<pgquiles> my debian/rules usually are only bash scripts which allow me to do everything I want
<pgquiles> :-/
 * persia is certain makebuilddir:: is the solution, and would like to see a build log
<azeem> pgquiles: in any case "didn't work" isn't enough information
<azeem> pgquiles: bash scripts?
<persia> pgquiles: debian/rules isn't a bash script!  1) it's not bash, 2) it's not shell
<cdm10> Ugh, I'm having another problem: (WARNING: Failed to sign .dsc and .changes file)
<pgquiles> azeem: "didn't work" meaning it's not run. I guess the makebuilddir/foo:: rule I'm adding is queued after the existing rule with the same name.
<persia> cdm10: You need the identity on your GPG key to exactly match the identify in the last debian changelog entry.
<cdm10> It works fine when I build it the first time, but when I increment the version with dch and dpkg-buildpackage it again, it doesn't sign.
<cdm10> persia: oh, lemme doublecheck that...
<azeem> pgquiles: where did you add it in debian/rules?
<persia> pgquiles: Just to make sure, you7re replacing "foo" with the name of your package, right?
<pgquiles> azeem: I've tried at the beginning and at the end, but both fail
<pgquiles> persia: yes :-)
<cdm10> persia: ha, it put in caleb@caleb-comp rather than my email address.
<joejaxx> cdm10: :)
<persia> azeem: Location in debian/rules doesn't matter.  make isn't sequential
<RAOF__> Hm.  Dear internet: stop sucking.
<RAOF__> pgquiles: So, you presumably need to do the autogen stuff because you're packaging a development snapshot, right?
<LaserJock> cdm10: putting DEBFULLNAME and DEBEMAIL in ~/.bashrc helps with that
<pgquiles> RAOF__: exactly
<cdm10> LaserJock: thanks
<pgquiles> gotcha!
<pgquiles> I needed to add a debian/stamp-autotools-maintregen-arch:: cd $(DEB_BUILDDIR); sh ./autogen.sh to get makebuilddir/foo:: to work, holy shit
<persia> Very odd.  For most packages, it seems to work without that (although perhaps it's related to autotools magic)
<pgquiles> and configure and build are run twice :-?
<pgquiles> autohell might be more accurate :-)
<RAOF> Hm.  Now that telstra's finished poking around at the exchange, maybe the internet will stay up for a few minutes at a time...
<RAOF> pgquiles: Did you get your autotools working?
<pgquiles> RAOF: yes, but I needed to add a weird rule
<RAOF> pgquiles: A better plan may have been to not do the autotools on build.  Rather, autotoolise the original tarball.
<pwnguin> StevenK: ah. ive mistaken you for steven kemp
<pwnguin> who is on planet debian
<pwnguin> 12 times
<azeem> it's Steve Kemp IIRC
<joejaxx> LaserJock: are you around? :D
<LaserJock> sure am
<joejaxx> have time for a pm ? :)
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> it's amazing how much compiling depends on hard drive speed
<StevenK> No it isn't, of course parts of it will be I/O bound.
<LaserJock> hmm, I don't get why my laptop would be so slow then
<LaserJock> my AMD 1800+ compiles I think around twice as fast as my Celeron 2.6GHz laptop
<StevenK> The Celeron has much less on-die cache
<persia> LaserJock: RAM size?  Cache?
<RAOF> That's not one of those old celerons with *no* L2 cache?
<StevenK> It's late P4 if it's 2.6GHz
<LaserJock> it's 2.8Ghz actually
<LaserJock> AMD Athlon(tm) XP 1800+  cache size      : 256 KB
<LaserJock> Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU 2.80GHz   cache size      : 128 KB
<LaserJock> the AMD has 1GB of RAM and the Intel 512MB of RAM
<persia> Those two factors explain most of it.  With more RAM you get pagecache advantages, and with more local cache, you've a higher chance of keeping the processor fed.
<LaserJock> hmm
<RAOF> And what sort of code?  If you go crazy with the templates it shouldn't be too hard to get g++ to thrash in 512mb.
<LaserJock> that seems crazy to me
<persia> Especially if you've already loaded 200-300MB with a healthy bit of OS stuff.
<LaserJock> it doesn't seem to be using up all the RAM most of the time
<persia> LaserJock: If you're not using all your RAM, your pagecache settings aren't agressive enough.
<LaserJock> I seem to generally have 150-200MB of RAM free still
 * RAOF 's laptop with 2GB of ram rarely uses < 95% of the ram
<LaserJock> ?
<StevenK> My amd64 desktop is the same
<LaserJock> - buffers/cache?
 * persia takes ~2 hours to reach 2GB in pagecache
<RAOF> So unless that free ram count doesn't include the various caches, I'm not sure how you get 200MB unused ram.
<LaserJock> oh, I thought you were talking about -buffers/cache
 * TheMuso only has 1GB of ram in his P4, but only ever starts using swap if he is 1) using GNOME+Speech, and 2) is doing a lot of package building, particularly with big packages.
<RAOF> Oh, no.
<LaserJock> I have 50-100MB free if I include cache
<persia> LaserJock: It's the buffers & cache that make it faster.  Without loading the pagecache, you need to read the pages from disk again.  For common operations, it's better to have the binaries, libraries, etc. already in RAM.
 * persia notes that for package building, it's ideal to have enough ram for base system + base cache + simulated build environment + build space
<TheMuso> persia: Yeah very true.
<LaserJock> I"m not using pbuilder
<LaserJock> just compiling some stuff from svn
<persia> LaserJock: In that case, you can probably get by with 2-3GB before you start dropping pages, either to swap or clean pages from the disk.
<LaserJock> I just can't believe my laptop is so slow
<persia> LaserJock: It's your choice of benchmark.  Compare the two systems when encoding video or something.
<LaserJock> heh, like I ever do that
<LaserJock> I need to find a test for that, it might be interesting
<imbrando1> ...
<imbrandon> that sucked
<imbrandon> ice storm + internet + power brownouts == no love for imbrandon
<LaserJock> bummer
<imbrandon> yea ...
<imbrandon> internet all day has sucked and it dont look like its getting better
<LaserJock> ok, I just did a benchmark with the *small* app I'm building from source:
<imbrandon> in the next 48 hours
<LaserJock> AMD 1800+
<LaserJock> real    6m7.545s
<LaserJock> user    5m13.436s
<LaserJock> sys     0m36.406s
<LaserJock> Celeron 2.8GHz
<LaserJock> real    16m12.889s
<LaserJock> user    12m19.662s
<LaserJock> sys     0m57.780s
<LaserJock> so even more than twice as slow :(
<Fujitsu> This is why we don't eat celery.
<lifeless> celerons are P4 though; they are borked by design :)
<Fujitsu> Heh.
<RAOF> Nice branchy compile code for the huge pipeline!
<imbrandon> ok i have a small OT question to ask yall, since i love you all so much, i'm setting up a blog ( self hosted wordpress ) for my wife to get her away from myspace hehe, anyhow i dont have the $$ for a domain name so i'm gonna use a no-ip.com domain but i want something semi witty, ideas ?
<RAOF> lifeless: As long as your code guarantees it will never branch the P4s can be quite fast :P
<imbrandon> so far we have liked *.isasecret.com *bounceme.net and ummm yea
<LaserJock> imbrandon: why not wordpress.com
<imbrandon> LaserJock: so i can install my custom rolled themes and plugins
<LaserJock> imbrandon: how about imnotbrandon.com
<imbrandon> lol
<lifeless> RAOF: yahuh. branch. Lets see. Thats what. IF ?!!!!!
<imbrandon> LaserJock: hehe yea but i'm trying to work with the free no-ip domains here hehe
<RAOF> lifeless: You're smart.  I'm sure you can write some useful program that has no conditionals :)
<imbrandon> since i dont have the cash to reg a new domain right now
<LaserJock> imbrandon: you can't do mrs.imbrandon.com ? :-)
<imbrandon> ahh nice, lemme ask if she likes that
<imbrandon> good idea
<imbrandon> hrm nope ;(
<LaserJock> slightly egotistically and selfcentered perhaps, but it's funny
<imbrandon> heh thats what she said, just before "no" heh
<lifeless> RAOF: I can yes, problem is the software stack. 1) Fix the kernel. 2) Profit.
<LaserJock> imbrandon: how about thepantswearer.imbrandon.com?
<imbrandon> seems like all the good *.isasecret.com domains are taken , like life. love.
<imbrandon> she dont want "brandon"
<imbrandon> heh
<mdomsch> stupid question, but, in debian/changelog, what's the field 'gutsy', 'hardy' etc. actually used for?
<LaserJock> yeah ... I wouldn't either ;-)
<mdomsch> and does apt ever care?
<StevenK> imbrandon: kernelbug.isasecret.com
<imbrandon> mdomsch: the release its built and installed to
<LaserJock> lol
<mdomsch> and installed into...
<imbrandon> apt dont, some buildd env's do
<mdomsch> ah, that's the key - apt doesn't care
<LaserJock> I think it's useful more on the developer end than the user end
<imbrandon> basicly if its not built via soyuz or dak then it dont matter
<persia> mdomsch: Some of the archive acceptance tools use that to select the build and deployment environment.
<mdomsch> so that's not my constantly-reinstalls-the-same-package bug
<imbrandon> correct
<LaserJock> mdomsch: ahhh
<LaserJock> mdomsch: is that from a PPA?
<mdomsch> LaserJock, no, linux.dell.com/repo/dists/cross-distro/dell-firmware/
<imbrandon> mdomsch: more likely a depend/confict/replace bug
<LaserJock> perhaps
<LaserJock> PPA has a known bug that makes packages with PreDepends or some similar fields to constantly reinstall
<mdomsch> imbrandon, no conflict/replace
<mdomsch> and depends looks like:
<mdomsch> Depends: firmware-addon-dell (>= 0:1.1), firmware-tools (>= 0:1.1)
<persia> mdomsch: Do you have Provides: ?
<mdomsch> which I think is sane
<imbrandon> hrm, can you pastebin the control file ?
<StevenK> mdomsch: Why a epoch of 0?
<imbrandon> epoch are evil hehe
<mdomsch> http://pastebin.domsch.com/18
<mdomsch> re epoch: good question, it's unnecessary
<mdomsch> those packages don't define epochs, so it's safe to remove
 * persia suspects the epoch is stuck now, if the package is being distributed, as'0' > ''
<Fujitsu> Isn't no epoch equal to 0?
<mdomsch> neither firmware-addon-dell nor firmware-tools define an epoch, so, ok
<mdomsch> but it's not failing due to missing deps
<mdomsch> apt/aptitude/synaptic just keep thinking the installed package system-bios-... isn't up-to-date
<mdomsch> when it clearly is
<imbrandon> could it be because the epoch is 0 ? e.g is that a legal value ?
<mdomsch> persia, yes, it can have a Provides line, but it fails both when it does and when it does not
<persia> mdomsch: Just to make sure, that control file goes through an expansion parser before becoming source, so you're not redefining the set of generated packages at build time, right?
<persia> mdomsch: No, you likely don't want Provides:, but Provides isn't versioned, which might have been a source of confusion (but isn't)
<mdomsch> persia, right
<mdomsch> I _do_ want a provides for some packages
<mdomsch> packages have binary packages in two forms
<LaserJock> mdomsch: what does apt-cache policy <package> give?
<mdomsch> system-bios-ven-0x1028-dev-0xabcd
<persia> Sure, but if you're not providing either firmware-addon-dell or firmware-tools, that wouldn't be the issue.
<mdomsch> LaserJock, http://pastebin.domsch.com/19
<mdomsch> the other form is system-bios-poweredge-2950, which Provides: system-bios-ven-0x1028-dev-0xabcd
<mdomsch> which is so I can have packages with pretty names, but programatically look up the package via aptitude install system-bios-ven-0x1028-dev-0xabcd
<Fujitsu> It's the epoch.
<LaserJock> mdomsch: I think it's the epoch
<LaserJock> darn, Fujitsu beat me too it
<persia> mdomsch: That's it.  The candidate apparently has an epoch, but the source isn't defining an epoch.
 * mdomsch rebuilds w/o the epochs
<mdomsch> if that's it, I'm kicking myself
<Fujitsu> As an empty epoch is equal to 0, so apt's local lists don't have it.
<imbrandon> i beat you both to it , hehe
<imbrandon> although i wasent sure and it was a question :)
<LaserJock> pffft
<LaserJock> guessing doesn't count ;-)
<imbrandon> lol
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: I brought that up first :P
<LaserJock> I thought it first so there :p
<imbrandon> hahaha
 * GoldenPony crushes LaserJock.
 * LaserJock expires ... leaving the Golden Ponies unfinished
<GoldenPony> Objection!
<persia> How can something unfinished act in a crushing manner.  I suspect GoldenPony just wants more playmates.
 * GoldenPony grumbles.
 * LaserJock notices GoldenPony is limping and decides he has to put'er down :(
<mdomsch> LaserJock, Fujitsu, persia, imbrandon you folks are geniuses
<mdomsch> that was it
<LaserJock> mdomsch: awesome, easy fix :-)
<imbrandon> geniuses i doubt ( leaste in my case ) but experince in weirdness with dpkg/apt/etc is a plus :)
<persia> mdomsch: Don't forget to close your bug :)
<mdomsch> doing so now :-)
 * TheMuso has just managed to get Ubuntu's cdimage building system working locally, or least I think so. Still waiting on seeing whether it builds a gutsy i386 image first.
<LaserJock> wow, really?
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Yeah.
<TheMuso> Its building the image now, but it still may fail, but things are looking good.
<TheMuso> Once I get hardy i386 mirrored, I'll be able to build my own hardy disks, which will be rather handy.
<TheMuso> With the exception of the live disks, but thats my next project.
<warp10> Hi all!
<superm1> the live disks are the fun ones though :)
<sakhi> warp10: hi
<warp10> sakhi: hi :)
<imbrandon> TheMuso: wow, mind sharing how to do that ?
<imbrandon> i would love to be able to roll my own
<LaserJock> me too but I think I'm gonna cheat and use Reconstructor or some such on a Desktop CD
 * imbrandon thinks TheMuso should blog about it
<superm1> imbrandon, as discussed at uds, the plan is to expand the cdimage script to make it more usable for derivatives
<superm1> imbrandon, so joejaxx and TheMuso are both working with it
<imbrandon> nice
<imbrandon> i'd love to help too, i'd probably not be able to dedicate much time to it, but a bit here and there
<superm1> until its ready for general consumption, if you want to see how the mythbuntu disks were rolled for 7.10, i can point you at a bzr tree for that
<superm1> it was a custom script that I wrote
<imbrandon> sure
<superm1> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mythbuntu/mythbuntu/mythbuntu-livedisk
<imbrandon> cool thanks
<imbrandon> bash?
<superm1> yeah
<TheMuso> imbrandon: I'm just playing with it atm, but once I've confirmed that it works properly for hardy as well as gutsy, I'll be starting a fresh, and I'll document everything.
<TheMuso> imbrandon: And I also have to test-build a live filesystem.
<dholbach> good morning
<RAOF> Man, *awesome*.  It's possible to trick Rhythmbox's gapless playback engine into playing two songs at once :)
<soren> How so? Setting the overlap time extremely high?
<dholbach> hey soren
<soren> Hi, dholbach!
<superm1> imbrandon, next time you file an update to mplayer (even for a rebuild), can you please remember to update the bzr branch
<Gunner_Sr> persia: I am working on bug #145074 and I see to encountered an error that is similar but different to the bug raised in the first place.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 145074 in xgalaga "xgalaga-hyperspace crashed with SIGSEGV" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/145074
<imbrandon> superm1: i tried but it never fully checked out
<superm1> imbrandon, its a huge branch (especially the way its organized now)
<imbrandon> superm1: is there a good reason the packing isnt kept in a seperate branch like most packing stored on LP ?
<imbrandon> that would help tremendusly
<superm1> imbrandon, yes there is
<superm1> the way that its organized, the rc2 upstream version is in its own branch
<superm1> and then each release branches from the upstream version
<superm1> and adds in the debian/ directory via patches
<superm1> directly in bzr patches that is
<persia> Gunner_Sr: Firstly, you'll likely get better assistance for asking a question generally to the channel.  Secondly, if you7ve dicovered a different bug, and can fix that as well, it's better.
<persia> Err..  And if you wait around, I have a chance to answer.
<superm1> imbrandon, this way when there is a new release, the upstream version branch is updated, and then the different release branches merge from it
<superm1> and add/remove appropriate patches
<imbrandon> hrm still seems excessive, no worries, i just wont touch it again, if i cant grab the source in less than 1 hour no need for me to mess with it
<imbrandon> imho
<persia> Does it really take that long to checkout the mplayer sources?
<imbrandon> thats when i cancled it both times i tried to check it out
<persia> That's no useful then.  Is there some tool that allows cleanup of a bzr branch?  Otherwise there's no point.
<imbrandon> well really if the vcs control field is used it should be for the packaing , not the unpacked orig
<imbrandon> imho
<persia> Actually, I kinda like having the unpacked orig in the VCS (and think pristine-tar is really cool), but not at that cost in updates.  it's not worth an hour.
<superm1> imbrandon, siretart can go into an depth discussion about the different "modes" of storing packaging and the advantages of them
<superm1> he described them to me at UDS
<superm1> s/depth/in\ depth/
<imbrandon> eg bzr get http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/amarok/debian
<superm1> imbrandon, were you using bzr+ssh?
<superm1> or http?
<superm1> or sftp
<imbrandon> http branch
<imbrandon> and ssh_bzr
<imbrandon> both
<superm1> imbrandon, bzr+ssh is significantly faster.
<superm1> ok
<superm1> i dont recall it taking an hour to checkout though
<imbrandon> point is the vcs control field is for packing not upstream sources, i;m not saying dont keep them arround in bzr but ....
<imbrandon> just like svn on alioth
<superm1> well the thing is packaging is in that url though too
<imbrandon> can i co and commit only the packing ?
<persia> imbrandon: There's different schools of thought on that (and in svn in alioth).  Both have strong arguments.
<superm1> imbrandon, no you can't, because the patches applied in the ubuntu bzr tree require you to have all the source there still
<imbrandon> superm1: huh ?
<imbrandon> the patches are applied to the source in bzr already ?
<superm1> imbrandon, there are source changes to things outside the debian directory.  traditionally those would be handled by packaging patches in debian/patches
<superm1> but the way things are implemented here, they are directly applied
<imbrandon> eww ok, even more reason not to touch the package again, ok
<imbrandon> how is one supose to work with whats in the archive and whats in bzr and upstrem and keep i streight from the "outside" ?
<superm1> well the idea is to be using feature branches
<superm1> so you've got your upstream bzr branch, and the ubuntu package is considered a "feature branch" of the upstream branch
<superm1> now say you've got a patch for gnome-screensaver
<superm1> you go and branch off the ubuntu feature branch
<superm1> apply your patches, test
<imbrandon> right but that totaly screws regular group maintainers like me, if i had known the source was ptached and repackd i wouldent have touched it
<superm1> see how its working
<superm1> once you are ready, you merge the two branches back into the ubuntu feature branch
<imbrandon> sounds like a good project branch on LP, but NOT a good vcs control branch
<superm1> well you didn't necessarily need to know exactly how this branch worked for what you were doing, it was just a matter of letting that checkout finish, commit your update and carry on
<imbrandon> well really it does, i dont want to be uploading code i dont know where came from thats not in the org tarbal
<imbrandon> so it does matter to me
<superm1> well when you did this, did you not see all the code changes in the .diff.gz and wonder what was going on before uploading then?
<\sh> Fujitsu, do I see it right, that -security stuff is being announce again on -changes?
<superm1> not to mention, all of the changes are indeed in the bzr history.  you can see who made what changes exactly when and even look at the history of each file
<imbrandon> superm1: right but i dont care about the source, i wasent updating the source, i was updating the packing
<imbrandon> its kinda the same thought as to why upstream shouldent include debian/ in the tarbals
<Fujitsu> \sh: yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes_1-1ubuntu1
<Fujitsu> \sh: The fix must have been cherrypicked, or Kees has been doing things differently..
<persia> superm1: imbrandon has a good point about orig.tar.gz.  Look into pristine-tar: if you can't recreate the upstream distributed file, your repo is inherently untrustworthy.
<superm1> well if the speed of this process was (is) the issue, i'd say have a checkout of this branch sitting around.  i committed your changelog entry just now, it took less then 5 seconds to push up, so things are much faster once you've got that checkout there (not to mention the ease of bzr update versus finding the dsc and dget)
<superm1> persia, well you can though
<superm1> persia, the repo for the orig.tar.gz is the other bzr tree
<superm1> that this branched from
<persia> superm1: Do the md5sums match?
<superm1> persia, the get-orig-source in mplayer's debian/rules was used to build the upstream branch.  it was committed as is from that rule
<imbrandon> superm1: haveing a bzr checkout of every package in ubuntu localy isnt an option
<superm1> so you could do an export of the upstream branch, tar it up and do it an md5sum comparison and they should both match
<imbrandon> atleaste not for most
<persia> superm1: Right (which is nice), but get-orig-source only gets run on package update, not on applying a patch or a rebuild (note that I like VCS packaging, I'm just pointing out possible issues).
<persia> superm1: They won't because of timestamps, etc.
<superm1> imbrandon, that's why it makes more sense for folks in motu-media (generally) to be working on packages like this rather than the general MOTU consensus
<superm1> persia, i see your point.  I might visit adjusting how that get-orig-source rule is done for that reason at some point.
<superm1> so that it instead grabs from the bzr tree to build the .orig.tar.gz
<superm1> the upstream bzr tree that is
<Fujitsu> superm1: Upstream has a debian/.
<persia> superm1: Take a look at pristine-tar.  99% of my stuff is patches to things already in the repos rather than maintenance, but from the docs it looks like it should do the right thing.
<superm1> Fujitsu, yeah, so currently that has to be moved to debian_upstream at some point
<superm1> its a matter of where that should occur though
<imbrando1> ugh
<imbrando1> damn connection
<superm1> persia, looks interesting.
<persia> superm1: If I'm reading the docs right, it should mean you can get all the benefits of upstream-code-in-VCS, and still have reliable checksums for verification.
<imbrando1> persia: mind reposting the link, i got dissconnected
<persia> imbrando1: No link: pristine-tar package in hardy
<imbrandon> ahh ok
<imbrandon> superm1: in anycase, thanks for doing the commit for me :)
<superm1> no prob.  it's a good excuse for me to nab a few more of the mplayer bugs i've been meaning to grab at the same time
<imbrandon> :)
<superm1> well at least in the morning that is.  bed for now.  night all
<imbrandon> gnight
<\sh> moins jonp
<\sh> jono
<\sh> i mean
<jono> heya \sh
<geser> Hi \sh, jono
<\sh> jono, are there any recordings of the jam session from UDS? I want to listen to a singing ogra
<jono> hey geser
<jono> \sh: not sure
<\sh> jono, that would be a cool thing...good news everyone, please cheer to the almighty Canonical Allstars Band with their song "Do you know it's Christmas" DeathMetalStyle ,-)
<jono> haha
<jono> :)
<\sh> jono, TBH, you should think about it doing it next time during LinuxTag on Stage...imho this would be something new for the LinuxTag ;)
<jono> \sh: a gig?
<\sh> jono, yeah :)
<jono> \sh: that would be cool :)
<\sh> jono, wasn't it LUGRadio who thought about the "Ubuntu Song"? "Dum Dum Dum Dee Ubuntu" or something? there was something
<jono> \sh: Ubuntu, Ubuntu, They Drink It In The Jungle :)
<\sh> jono, hmm...what about "Welcome To Ubuntu...Get it 'cause it's free" (music from guns'n'roses "Welcome To The Jungle")
<jono> haha
<jono> nice :
<jono> :)
<jono> brb
<\sh> hmmm....
<huats> morning everyone
<\sh> "Take Me Down To The Ubuntu City, where the ground is brown and the community is pretty"
<Kmos> \sh: hehe
<Kmos> dh_icons doesn't work for .xpm right
<Kmos> ?
<Kmos> dholbach: dh_icons doesn't work for .xpm right
<Kmos> ?
<dholbach> Kmos: gtk-update-icon-cache does not work on .xpm files - it's just for icons that are installed into /usr/share/icons
<Kmos> dholbach: but if they're installed at /usr/share/icons as xpm doesn't work either.. ?
<dholbach> I'm not sure that GTK's icon cache will return an .xpm file if you ask it for let's say "gtk-dialog-error", size 48
<dholbach> you can ask in #ubuntu-desktop
<dholbach> but I don't believe it makes sense to 1) install .xpm files in /usr/share/icons, 2) invoke dh_icons in the packaging just for that
<Kmos> dholbach: i'm asking it, because a debian package does exactly that
<dholbach> Kmos: you can try asking in #ubuntu-desktop
<Kmos> debian+ubuntu change.. in ubuntu luca falavigna added a dh_icons on it
<dholbach> especially people like seb128 and lool should know
<Kmos> thanks
<dholbach> please check if there aren't any other icons shipped by the package
<dholbach> if it's only the .xpm in usr/share/icons, it's probably not necessary
<Kmos> yeah, it's only xpm
<Kmos> i talked with author also
<dholbach> best to ask in #ubuntu-desktop then
<Kmos> :)
<Kmos> already done
<Kmos> thanks for help
<dholbach> no problem
<Kmos> bug 175508
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 175508 in reportbug-ng "reportbug-ng reports bugs to Debian instead of Ubuntu" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175508
 * \sh is bored...
<Kmos> that's an interesting one
<\sh> Kmos, why don't you ask bastian venthur about adding LP support to it? :)
<pkh> is this the right place to ask questions about getting updated device drivers into the ubuntu kernel, or do I need to go somewhere else?
<\sh> Kmos, he is in need of devs...read http://blog.venthur.de/2007/12/08/want-to-get-money-for-nothing-and-chicks-for-free-too/
<dholbach> pkh: #ubuntu-kernel might be a better place
<pkh> of course...  cheers :)
<Kmos> \sh: hehe.. everyone needs $$$ :-(
<Kmos> \sh: that will be cool to have LP support =)
<\sh> Kmos, go for it
<SWAT> I need to create a few database tables for a package. When I use mysql in debian/rules it whines about mysql connection errors. Any tips? (I'm using pbuilder/cowbuilder)
<Fujitsu> SWAT: Why are they needed during build, and not at runtime?
<SWAT> they're not, they're only needed at runtime, but I want to install them together with the package
<Fujitsu> debian/rules is only executed during build. You probably want to look into dbconfig-common.
<SWAT> I will, thanks
<geser> Hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey geser
<jonnymind> hi
<dholbach> hey huats_
<huats_> dholbach: hey
<huats_> dholbach: got to go for lunch.... talk to you this afternoon
<dholbach> huats_: enjoy it! :)
<persia> Could someone please direct me to an appropriate support forum for issues with dbus in hardy?  #ubuntu+1 doesn't seem to exist yet.
<Fujitsu> persia: #ubuntu+1 has been there for severeal weeks.
<persia> Fujitsu: Hmm.  I guess I had a typo in my first /join.  Thanks :)
<Hobbsee> #ubuntu+1 has existed for several releases.
<persia> Hobbsee: Yes, it just tends to disappear shortly after the release, and I apparently can't spell, so I got a "No such channel" warning.  All sorted now :)
<Hobbsee> this is true
<Fujitsu> It is closed until the archive opens.
<persia> Fujitsu: Thanks.  I didn't realise it was tied to such a trackable external event.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: or until it's vaguely usable, anyway
<Fujitsu> It used to be archive opening, at least.
<mruiz> hi dholbach ... I received a reply from jazzva (he understood the situation and I gave him some tips to continue)
<mruiz> hi all !
<dholbach> mruiz: great
<dholbach> great you two are working it out
<mruiz> dholbach, I finished with hardware-monitor conflicts... I have to modify the changelog with the remaining changes
<dholbach> super
* persia changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Hardy Heron is in active development. | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Go Merging! http://dad.dunnewind.net/universe.php | QA resources from http://qa.ubuntuwire.com
<\sh> Fujitsu, would you like to deal with bug #174133? :) I can't find the time right now to work on it
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 174133 in rsync "[CVE-2007-6199 and CVE-2007-6200] rsync is vulnerable" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174133
<mruiz> dholbach, I'm filling a merge bug against the source-package... wait me a moment
<dholbach> mruiz: take your time :)
<mruiz> ups... dholbach I found the merge bug assigned to someone, but the solution isn't correct. I'll add my work there
<mruiz> dholbach, do you think that we have to recommend the use of DaD to avoid situations like this one?
<dholbach> mruiz: sure we can advertise it, but I still feel that cases like this will happen again
<dholbach> it's too easy to miss
<mruiz> sure... new contributors don't understand the use of some tools
<slicer> Anyone have time to do a review update of http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=mumble ?
<DaveMorris> slicer: you noticed the lintian and linda errors?
 * persia encourages everyone to always check the bugs when looking at a merge: in many cases there are a couple easy bugs that can be fixed at the same time, and it allows one to easily see if someone else has made a claim, or provided a (possibly partial) solution.
<slicer> DaveMorris: It complains that I use 3.7.3 for standards, which I was told to use.
<DaveMorris> yeah I jsut noticed that
<DaveMorris> I was told to use 3.7.2.2 for my package which just got accepted
<mruiz> thanks persia ;-)
<slicer> DaveMorris: Well, persia is the one who told me, and he is here.. :)
<DaveMorris> yeah MOTU's never agree on things ;)
<persia> slicer: Unfortunately my browser is dead currently.  What am I defending?
<slicer> persia: Using standards: 3.7.3 isntead of 3.7.2.2
<DaveMorris> since linda complains that it's too new
<persia> DaveMorris: We're all likely wrong, and tend to be good at one or two things.  By listening to our disputes, it is hoped you will develop an opinion that is based on technical merits :)
<DaveMorris> W: mumble; 3.7.3 is a newer Standards-Version.  This package appears to conform to a newer Standards-Version that has  been released. One of us is incorrect.
<DaveMorris> ^^ is the linda warning
<StevenK> Linda is
<persia> slicer: Yep.  Debian-policy in hardy is 3.7.3.0, and the fourth digit isn't meaningful.  Both lintian and linda need updates on REVU: lintian is ready, but linda will probably be another couple weeks.
<DaveMorris> persia: is this info documented somewhere?
<slicer> Ok, then we're all in agreement :)
<persia> DaveMorris: `rmadison debian-policy`
<DaveMorris> thnaks
<persia> DaveMorris: For further information on tracking how linda and lintian compare with standards, it is worth looking at their bug entries on LP and in the Debian BTS.  Not all the bugs are correct, but it's often the best guide to see if the tools are mistaken.
<DaveMorris> slicer: I think you may need to change "is licensed under the GPL, " to "is licensed under the GPL2, "
<DaveMorris> in debain/copyright
<DaveMorris> for your packaging licence
<persia> DaveMorris: Why?  GPLv2 and GPLv3 are compatible licenses.
<DaveMorris> I was informed that I should specify the version of the licence
<broonie> persia: They're compatible with each other but may not be compatible with other things.
<persia> broonie: True.  I can't see, but I don't remember mumble having issues with GPLv3 connections (although I could be mistaken).
<broonie> And in any case the thing is to get the licensing information for the package.
<broonie> Sure, but someone might want to link it with a new library or something.
<persia> broonie: "packaging license", as in "the Debian packaging is copyright 2007 <packager> and is released under the terms of the GPL"
<slicer> BTW. Currently, the system-user for murmur is called Murmur (with a capital M) to avoid username clashes. However, this is incompatible with policy for most other distributions, meaning any scripts which reference the user name have to be changed. How bad would it be to simply call the user (and group) "murmur"?
<persia> slicer: It'd be better to use "murmur", rather than "Murmur".
<broonie> Ah, right - in that case you at least want to exclude GPL1.
<persia> broonie: Do you need to specify if you point to /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL?  Don't you just get the current newest GPL by default?
<slicer> persia: Is that "officially" ok? Because I chose Murmur after reading a document somewhere.. hold on.
<persia> slicer: I won't be able to see the results of the link you're about to post: ask someone else.
<slicer> persia: No lynx? No telnet? ;)
<slicer> BTW, about the licensing, the current text is:
<slicer> The Debian packaging is (C) 2007, Thorvald Natvig <slicer@sourceforge.net> and
<slicer> is licensed under the GPL, see `/usr/share/common-licenses/GPL-2'.
<slicer> .. Which, in my mind, seems to clearly indicate GPL-2. But I can change it as I'll change that username anyway :)
<persia> slicer: My system is fairly broken right now.  I'm sorting it, but I'd trust a policy doc over my memory, and don't have my bookmarks to find the counter-example.
<slicer> persia: The webpage basically says that there is no policy; there should be one, and until there is, here's what everybody else has done.
<persia> slicer: Ah.  That makes sense :)
<slicer> Is the name GPL2 or GPL-2?
<broonie> persia: persia I'd say so, if only to ensure clarity (it's clear if the work can be reused under an older version or not just after a new one is released).
<persia> broonie: OK.  Makes sense.
<persia> slicer: Based on that, you might want to follow DaveMorris' advice.  I'd suggest "GPLv2"
<gpocentek> hello!
<gpocentek> I'm a bit confused by the freeze for hardy universe, is there a wiki page about that?
<persia> gpocentek: Which freeze?
<gpocentek> persia: sorry, "freezes"
<mruiz> persia, Debian Import freeze
<gpocentek> it's more general for me
<gpocentek> I don't remember if we decided to have a NEW freeze sooner than usual for instance
<persia> gpocentek: Ah.  There should be links from HardyReleaseSchedule, but my memory is that we have DIF (which is like it was in the past), FF, which now includes UVF and NPUF, Beta Freeze, and RC Freeze (both of which are like in the past)
<sakhi_> kbye
<persia> So, we hit DIF on the 14th, and need to more carefully evaluate anything brought in from Debian.  We hit FF on 14th February, and should just be in bugfix mode (and need UVFe where appropriate).  For NPUF, we should try for uploads by end-January to allow the archive-admins time to do NEW processing.
<frafu> dholbach:  FYI: a new version (0.2.8-0ubuntu2) of mousetweaks is in revu (upid 947); please ignore upid 946 as it contained an error in debian/changelog. I have also posted a comment with the changes compared to version 0.2.8-0ubuntu1. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=947
<persia> After Beta, only RC bugs should get fixed, and after RC, all bugfixes should be peer-reviewed and be for RC issues.
<gpocentek> persia: thanks! this is clearer now :)
<persia> gpocentek: Sure.  There's some email in the archives from pitti explaining the rationale for the change: basically an expanded "we have too many freezes, and should simplify).
<persia> frafu: Consider urls of the form http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=mousetweaks .  These should always point at the latest upload.
<lionel> persia: the mail on ubuntu-devel-announce was a bit confusing this morning.
<lionel> but thanks for the explanation :)
<persia> lionel: I know.  Complain to slangasek: he's used to having a single freeze policy for the entire archive (and still does when moonlighting).
<frafu> persia: thanks for the indication; I will bookmark the url
<persia> frafu: Test it first: I'm only guessing :)
<lionel> persia: hehe :). There is a nice sun here ;)
<frafu> persia: tested and bookmarked  :-)
<huats_> persia: lionel  I can confirm there is a nice sun here also
<lionel> hey huats :)
<huats> hello lionel :)
<mruiz> dholbach, I need your opinion about the changelog: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/47824/
 * persia notes that dholbach is often busy, and that mruiz may do well to also ask others for advice
<mruiz> persia, sure! I have to interact with the team... ;-)
<mruiz> then, someone can review the following merge changelog http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/47824/ ?
<ScottK> dholbach: What is in your proposal about Kmos that hasn't already been tried?
<zul> ScottK: string him up lashed and quartered?
<ScottK> zul: That wasn't dholbach's proposal.
<zul> oh
<persia> Ubulette: Would LP work as a prism app?
<Ubulette> well, sure but my attempts were not convincing as I use LP with tons of tabs (in firefox) and I often use the backward and forward buttons.. which a webapp is not supposed to do. So depends on the way you navigate the website. You can still try, it's as easy as creating a bookmark.
<persia> Ubulette: So I'd just stick the LP URL in the prism definition dialog?  Good point though: LP doesn't work very well without back/forward.  Maybe I need to find a better way to work around my issue then.  Thanks.
<Ubulette> persia, yes, url + name, and you get a desktop launcher
<Ubulette> persia, as I said, some sites are better suited than others to be webapps. LP is not :( Gmail, Greaders, ..  are
<persia> Ubulette: Yep.  LP is not.  I'm browserless right now, and hoped prism could reduce my pain, but not very much :)  Thanks for the explanations though: it's certainly good in cases where it does work.
<Ubulette> I wish someone will create a css file to make google reader and gmail look like gnome apps :)
<Ubulette> persia, browserless ? why ?
<mruiz> persia, can you give me a comment, please? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/47827/
<persia> Ubulette: Firefox ate my (rather complex) session too many times due to poor support for seamless upgrades.  Epiphany is dead due to some dbus confusion (which I'm tracking).  Should be sorted in the next few hours, but there's too many reasons to hit LP to not have something open.
<Ubulette> persia, try firefox3, session support is very good
<ScottK> persia: Konqueror.
<Ubulette> or try seamonkey :)
<Ubulette> or kazehakase
<persia> Ubulette: That would require me digging out my old session so as not to wipe it.  My firefox2 session is precious to me, as I have hopes of getting it back.
<persia> ScottK: I'm much more likely to go with midori than konqueror, but I may end up down that road...
<Ubulette> persia, ff3 uses a different profile. it will just import your existing ff2, but it will not touch it
 * ScottK doesn't even know what midori is, but likes Konqueror more and more the more he uses it.
<persia> Ubulette: "import" != "not touch".
<persia> ScottK: webkit + bits from konqueror + GTK.
<ScottK> Hmmmm
<Ubulette> persia, i wrote that part so i'm sure :)
<Fujitsu> That sounds like a nasty hybrid...
<ScottK> I guess you consider GTK a feature, so makes sense.
<persia> ScottK As time passes, this is becoming less true :)
<persia> Fujitsu: It's supposed to be light and sweet, and doesn't have any KDE stuff: just leveraged some Konqueror wrapping stuff to make it clean.
<ScottK> Ah.  Seeing the light.
<persia> ScottK: It's largely that I have apps that require GNOME, but none that require KDE.  I use QT a lot though (and QT exclusively on my laptop).  On the other hand, my previous experience with KDE was negative enough to drive me to enlightenment, so there's a high barrier to return (although I understand the last couple major revisions have improved things a bit).
<apachelogger> persia: libksquirrel updated
<persia> mruiz: I really don't think "new upstream release" is a correct remaining change for -1ubuntu1.
<persia> apachelogger: Cool (but 150 minutes late).
<mruiz> persia, ok...
 * mruiz fixing an error
<apachelogger> meh
<persia> mruiz: You likely also don't need the rebuild comment, since a merge forces a rebuild.
<apachelogger> persia: I forgot to upload before I went to bed ;-)
<Ubulette> persia, comments have been resurrected on revu (for seamonkey) ?
<mruiz> persia, what's about "Build-Depends: dropped Debian reference to libgtkmm-2.4-dev (>= 2.6.0) due all Ubuntu versions are greater that this value." ?
<persia> Ubulette: I'm not sure what you mean.  If it was archived, an upload unarchives.  In either case, I think you've gotten enough review, and would do well to send it to the sponsors queue (as it's just an update).
<persia> mruiz: Is that change part of the variation from the Debian package?  I'm just reviewing the changelog: you'll need to verify that everything mentioned in the changelog also appears in the debdiff against the Debian package, and further, that each of those patches is useful.
<Ubulette> persia, through a new upgrade bug + debdiff ?
<persia> Ubulette: I like interdiff better than debdiff, but debdiff works if your get-orig-source doesn't.
<persia> (interdiff due to new upstream)
<mruiz> persia, yes... this is a variation between Debian and Ubuntu.
<persia> mruiz: Then it belongs in the changelog, whereas "new upstream release" and "rebuild" don't show in the debdiff, so they don't belong in the changelog.
<Ubulette> persia, no new upstream here, I just fixed your stuff, that's why I reposted to REVU.
<Ubulette> isn't debdiff using interdiff now ?
<Ubulette> reading the sources, it does
<persia> Ubulette: Yes, debdiff uses interdiff when it can, but the way it uses interdiff means that it doesn't work when dealing with new upstream versions with new or changed binary blobs.
<slicer> Er. If there's a package my package doesn't depend on, but which gives enhanced functionality, what's the correct header?
<broonie> Recommends or Suggests depending on how likely it is that someone would use the enhanced functionality.
<slicer> Thanks :)
<ikonia> imbrandon: are you currently awake
<persia> slicer: Just to expand, use Recommends if it's normal that the other package would be installed, and Suggests if it's useful, but not expected in the typical case.
<guest22> Could someone give some advice on choosing between Build-Depends-Indep and Depends in a case not described in the packaging documentation? I'm working on a package which has a number of dependencies which are checked by the source configure script, but are only required at runtime. Are the configure script warnings sufficient justification for making these Build-Depends-Indep, or is Depends okay because the source will build wit
<guest22> hout them?
<guest22> That seems to have been truncated - the initial part was "Could someone give some advice on choosing between Build-Depends-Indep ..."
<slicer> persia: I found the relevant policy document. It's definitely a "Suggests". Basically, I need festival for text-to-speech support, but it's not something people will miss.
<persia> guest22: If they are just warnings, you can safely ignore them.  If configure spits an error, and make dies, you need the b-d-i to get it built.
<persia> slicer: festival recently got downgraded, in favour of espeak.  I don't suppose your app can work with espeak, can it?
<guest22> persia: Okay, Depends it is. Thanks.
<slicer> espeak? I'll check.
<slicer> First I've heard of it :)
<slicer> persia: Yes, from what I can see, I should probably switch to espeak, and will do so for 1.1.2. That will be a 10-20 line diff though, so it probably doesn't belong in the packaging for 1.1.1?
<persia> slicer: Your call.  I tend to add patches in packaging with abandon, if that helps distribution integration.  When I've a candidate that integrates well, I review the patches, and send some or all of them upstream, generally bundled in manageable feature-specific chunks.
<slicer> persia: I am the upstream, so I'd be applying this to current SVN (which already has quite a few other differences from 1.1.1) and then copy those files into my mumble-1.1.1 tree which I maintain for this packaging.
<mruiz> MOTUs, I was building a merged package and I used: debuild -S -sa -v1.4-1ubuntu1 (as the documentation says). I got  "parsechangelog/debian: error: -v<since> option specifies most recent version"
 * persia 's record for lines of patch in the interest of integration is 1584
<persia> mruiz: You want -v$(previous version uploaded to ubuntu)
<slicer> persia: I thought it was "good form" to keep the .diff.gz as small as possible? If I can, I have a few fixes that will be included in 1.1.2 that I'd like to add to the 1.1.1 package. They're not showstoppers, but they fix minor bugs.
<persia> slicer: As a long-term goal, there should be no patches to the upstream code (regardless of diff.gz size).  As a short-term goal, the package should integrate seamlessly with the distribution.  As with many things, there are multiple schools of thought as to how best manage this.
<ScottK> slicer: I'd suggest that you don't add features, just bug fix cleanup/integration related changes.
<slicer> Is there an easy way to check a binary or library and see which symbols it imports from the libraries it links to? In gutsy, libQtCore imports libfreetype and libfontconfig, and there's absolutely no need to.
<persia> ScottK: Does using the Ubuntu default text-to-speech engine rather than the previous one count as "integration" for 10-20 lines in your book?
<ScottK> persia: Absolutely.
 * persia concurs with ScottK's analysis of what to patch
<slicer> Okidoki, back to work then.
<mruiz> thanks persia ;-)
<persia> mruiz: No problem.  Merges are tricky.  Personally, I find it easier to do from scratch, rather than relying on MoM or DaD, as it's easier to get the changelog right (because you need to manually investigate all the changes).  On the other hand, my method takes longer.
<mruiz> :)
<dfiloni> persia: any news about wxwidgets2.8?
<persia> dfiloni: I haven't seen any bug traffic.  Based on the latest state, it should get picked up by a sponsor before too long.  I can't personally build it without adjusting my build system, or I'd upload the candidate.
<dfiloni> persia: ok thanks
 * persia encourages someone with the ability to build large sources to sponsor bug #133888
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133888 in wxwidgets2.8 "upgrade wxwidgets2.8 to the 2.8.4.2 release" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/133888
<persia> dfiloni: Seeing that, you might want to adjust the title to match the version you've actually submitted :)
<dholbach> ScottK: what's new about my idea is that Kmos would be under an official surveillance and won't disrupt anybody - my main point is trying to solve the problem generally
<dholbach> ScottK: it's not a decision as I hopefully made clear, but the proposal I'd like to add to the discussion
<ScottK> dholbach: From my perspective you aren't asking for things that he's already been asked to do and not done.
<persia> dholbach: I don't think it's "official surveillance" when you start it not wearing your MC hat (but that's a nitpick)
<ScottK> dholbach: I understand.  That's why I'm here discussing.
<dfiloni> persia: done :)
<dholbach> persia: sorry, maybe I should have been more clear in my email and I'll respond to yours: I'm wearing my MC hat, but I was not presenting a decision with my email
<dholbach> persia: does that make sense?
<persia> dholbach: Ah.  That makes sense (but wasn't clear to me from the email).
<dholbach> persia: ok, I'll reply in a sec
<dholbach> ScottK: I'm not sure I understand your last sentence. What am I asking or not asking for?
<ScottK> dholbach: When you, who are the Ubuntu CC rep for MOTU, asked him to not do anything without checking with you first and he ignored that after several days, how was that not official.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: it's not official, as dholbach did not say "and i hearby will smite you with lightning bolts if you do not obey"
<ScottK> dholbach: I meant to say I understand that there is no decision yet and so I am trying to discuss.
<persia> dholbach: Essentially I just want to see an official result (pending internal MC deliberation).
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Yes and I didn't say mother may I either.
<dholbach> ScottK: to me official is an announced decision by a governance body
<ScottK> dholbach: OK.  I don't see that as any different, but I understand.
 * persia encourages dholbach to practice the powers of Thor and Zeus in preparation for that possible eventuality
<dholbach> persia: scottK urged me to get more input on the whole issue, that's why I thought it prudent to present my view, let others weigh in and then vote on it
<ScottK> dholbach: I will tell you up front that I will not personally be satisfied with anything that doesn't depend just on his ability and willingness to follow instructions.
<dholbach> persia: and I think it makes sense to hear other opinions on it as it's not just a "fire and forget" decision, but much more important than that
<ScottK> persia: Which I did because I don't want this to be me versus Kmos.  I think it's something that's negatively impacted the whole community.
<persia> dholbach: Sure.  I agree with that as well: I guess it's a language thing: when I see "not as MC, but personal statement" I assume it's "hats off".  I'm basically happy with your email, but didn't see it as an official statement of policy.
<ScottK> dholbach: From my perspective anything that depends on Kmos doing what he's told/agreed is essentially doing nothing.
<Hobbsee> FWIW, i feel out of touch, and unsure i want to participate in it anyway, so am withholidng comment.
<persia> ScottK: Agreed, and thanks for raising it to MC.  I'm not sure we have all the structures in place to handle it well, but I'm hoping for the establishment of useful precedents, and would be very pleased by a result that allowed Kmos to contribute positively to the community.
<Hobbsee> if having people like kmos repeatedly causing trouble is acceptable, then he drags MOTU down to his level...and i'm not sure that i want any part in that.
<ScottK> persia: I generally agree, but have concluded that that last bit just isn't possible.
<persia> dfiloni: Just got the bugmail.  Thanks.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I think that's be a useful comment to the MC ML thread.
<persia> ScottK: I'm reserving final judgement for now, but that doesn't mean I disagree with you.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: this requires elloquence not required on irc.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: True.
<dholbach> ScottK: I understood that, when I first read your email. What's different is that it's a council decision. "xyz won't listen to the MC anyway." expresses mistrust in the MC's ability to deal with that even before a decision was made.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I just want to make sure it's in the record.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: ah right
<soren> There's just something really special about misspelling "eloquence" :)
<DaveMorris> persia: how large is large?  I can build it for you and chuck the output to a http server for you if you want
<Hobbsee> soren: yeah, i thought i'd misspelt it.  thanks.
<ScottK> dholbach: That's not my perspective.  My perspective is that he has a very well established track record of agreeing to do/not do stuff and then doing the opposite shortly thereafter.
<soren> Hobbsee: Oh, any time! :)
<Hobbsee> soren: single l.  damn.
<Hobbsee> soren: you were my personal dict :)
<persia> DaveMorris: sponsors are supposed to build before uploading, so that doesn't help me.  I know it builds (there's a buildlog in the bug), and I know it works, but I won't upload without building it personally.  Thanks anyway.
<ScottK> dholbach: It's nothing specific to the MC.
<DaveMorris> oh, ok
<warp10> Hi all!
<ScottK> dholbach: I would also ask you to consider that so far the lesson I'm learning from this is that I don't complain enough.
<dfiloni> hi warp10 :)
<warp10> dfiloni: yo! ;)
<persia> ScottK: You complain plenty.  You just didn't complain to MC early enough (not that we had MC in a dispute resolution role when the issues began)
<dholbach> ScottK: I see this as the precedent for the MC to deal with conflict, that's why I aim for a general solution that adresses the specific concerns.
<ScottK> dholbach: Additionally, that trying to resolve things in private is pointless.
<ScottK> persia: Right.
<ScottK> persia: So no more trying to quietly work things out in private.  Everything an official complaint to the MC.
<dholbach> ScottK: I agreed with you a number of times already: this had been dealt with much earlier - that's why it has gut so ugly now.
<ScottK> dholbach: Yes.  So please do something other than nothing (which is how I read your proposal).
<dholbach> ...
<persia> ScottK: I'd suggest addressing things to the individuals concerned in private first, and only escalating to MC if that does not lead to a resolution.  No need to push everything to MC.
<dholbach> ScottK: I won't take your last point.
<ScottK> dholbach: You're choice.  I'm telling you how I see it.
<persia> ScottK, dholbach: Please wait for me to type something...
 * ScottK waits.
 * Hobbsee demolishes the world.
 * soren hands the CoC to Hobbsee
<soren> I'm quite sure the CoC doesn't allow planet demolition.
<persia> Essentially, the current non-official statement of oversight is proposed.  When MC comes to a resolution (2 days left in 12), a final decision will be taken.  For the current proposal to be acceptable, it should include some indication of what happens if oversight is not sufficient.  It's not worth disputing whether oversight is something: "official oversight" is new, if there are consequences.
<Hobbsee> soren: on the contrary.  i'm quite sure it doesn't explicitly forbid it.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Damn, I wish mako had thought of that. We're doomed!
<soren> Hobbsee: "If you really want to go a different way, then we encourage you to make a derivative
<soren> "
<soren> Hobbsee: You're supposed to fork the world and demolish *that*.
<mruiz> MOTUs, is a good idea to include the pbuilder log in a merge bug?
<ScottK> mruiz: Not needed.  It's good to say that you built it.
<mruiz> thanks ScottK
<persia> mruiz: It's only useful if there is a new change that fixes a FTBFS in a non-obvious way.
<mruiz> what's about diffstats ?
<Hobbsee> soren: heh
<ScottK> persia: I still see that as not resolving things.
<persia> mruiz: Completely useless.  That's possibly useful for new upstreams, when requesting a UVFe, but that's not required until after feature freeze.
<persia> ScottK: Even with consequences?
<ScottK> persia: I specifically asked for action to be taken due to past abuse.  That essentially says "All is forgiven.  Don't mess up again."
<ScottK> persia: I'm way past that.
<persia> ScottK: Further, if MC provides "official oversight", and manages the problem so it doesn't affect you, should you care?
<joejaxx> Good Morning All
<ScottK> persia: As long as the negative inputs continue, it's a distraction for all of us and hurts Ubuntu.  I care.
<persia> ScottK: Ah.  Different philosophy.  I'm happy with non-participation or no further mistakes.  If you're looking for punishment, I can't debate it.
<ScottK> Good morning joejaxx.
<joejaxx> ScottK: :)
<ScottK> persia: I just don't see there being any realistic chance of the contribution turning positive, so why kick the can down the road.
<ScottK> persia: It's not a matter of punishment.  It's a matter of stopping things.
<persia> ScottK: You don't need to do so.  If MC chooses the proposal as a solution, it's MC's responsibility to ensure no negative impact.  If MC is successful, you shouldn't see it.
<dholbach> ScottK: What I want to address in my proposal is 1) no disruption for others (that was one of your main concerns), 2) have a general solution for cases like this, 3) having surveillance and control over what's going on.
<ScottK> persia: IMO a sufficient number of "Please do ..." or "Please don't ..." have been ignored that anything that requires voluntary compliance is nothing.
 * persia agrees with dholbach's ideas, although sistpoty's point about what to do in case of failure is also useful
<dholbach> persia: right, that's a topic we should discuss in the thread
<ScottK> dholbach: As long as he can file bugs, point 1 is not met.
<Hobbsee> persia: but does ScottK have the confidence in the MC to do their said responsibility?
<dholbach> ScottK: they will go through the hands of those executing that surveillance
<persia> ScottK: For lack of confidence in the solution, I can understand that.  But to assume that MC will fail before MC starts is unfair to MC.  If MC doesn't remove the problem (whether through education or other means), I'll likely be as unhappy as you.
<ScottK> dholbach: How can you ensure that?
<persia> Hobbsee: Maybe not, but as it's the first time MC will have done this, I think that's unfair.
<ScottK> persia: I've presented the problem and am asking them to remove it.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: My confidence in the MC is not the issue.  My confidence in Kmos doing anything he says he will do is the issue.
<persia> ScottK; I claim the problem is the timesink of trying to see if there is value in any given bug comment, and trying to find them all, rather than the individual involved.  I liked your solution, but I'm willing to give MC a chance (but not for an extended duration).
 * ScottK just doesn't see any point in redoing stuff that's already been tried.
<ScottK> And I don't see any difference worth mentioning between dholbach himself asking for stuff and the MC asking for stuff.  Unreliable is unreliable no matter who asks.
<ScottK> If he's only reliable when there is official surveillance on, then as soon as the probation period ends, it'll be back to the same old problem.
 * persia expects an official MC statement to carry enforceable weight, whereas any given developer is only a developer
<ScottK> dholbach: I would like to have a date certain when the MC plans to reach a decision on this so I can be ready to go to the CC.
<dholbach> ScottK: Whatever will be decided will be an official decision by the governance body and he will have to abide by it.
<dholbach> ScottK: we can discuss the timeline on the mailing list
 * persia thought the 12-day rule applies
<ScottK> dholbach: I guess the difference is that you're willing to accept the pain of whatever happens when he doesn't.  I don't think that's reasonable.
<ScottK> dholbach: ML is find for schedule.
<dholbach> no, I'm not accepting anything - can you please calm down
<ScottK> dholbach: I'm actually pretty calm.
<dholbach> ScottK: Why don't you reply with all your specific complaints about my proposal to the mailing list, so everybody can read them and reply to them.
<ScottK> dholbach: OK.  I understand you don't want to discuss this further.
<dholbach> that'll help in the decision process and maybe we can come up with a different solution together
<dholbach> ScottK: no, I just don't think it makes sense to discuss it here, where 1) other people have no chance to follow up on it, 2) you're accusing me of being responsible for general pain in the project just because I propose something else than you do, 3) also you're accusing me of doing nothing
<dholbach> That doesn't really help with a solution, does it?
<persia> dholbach: I don't see #2 in ScottK's comments.
<ScottK> dholbach: OK.  I think you're the one that needs to calm down.
<ScottK> dholbach: I understand that you think your proposal amounts to doing something.  I disagree.
<dholbach> I spent a lot of time thinking about the problem and talking to various people about it
<dholbach> OK
<ScottK> dholbach: I don't doubt your sincerity in trying to solve the problem or the effort you've put into it.  I just don't like your proposal.
<mruiz> MOTUs, I finished with a merge... I added the related debdiffs to the bug and the build with pbuilder was successful. Where do I have to put the packages: REVU or PPA ?
<ScottK2> mruiz: Put the debdiff in a bug and subscribe UUS.
<mruiz> ok
<mruiz> ScottK2, done
<persia> mruiz: Just to expand on that, if you submit a debdiff (or an interdiff for an upgrade) the sponsors will be able to reconstruct the package, so you don't need to put the package anywhere.
<mruiz> :)
 * pochu didn't know DIF means no more merges...
<persia> pochu: It doesn't exactly, it just means that all future merges need a rationale, as in "contains fool feature foo" or "fixes bug bar", and that we should take care to avoid any more transitions.
 * persia considers sending email to ubuntu-motu@ clarifying the "Freeze" situation for universe
<pochu> persia: thanks for the explanation.
<Hobbsee> hum.  do i have any universe merges that i care about, then?
<Hobbsee>  bug #120789
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 120789 in libgdal-grass "dependency broken: can't install" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/120789
<mruiz> persia, +1 with the clarification
<slicer> persia: Do you know if the espeak in hardy is fixed so it doesn't just open /dev/dsp?
<slicer> persia: Because under gutsy, espeak can't be used concurrently with any other audio program.
<persia> slicer: No idea.  Check with either the audio team or the accessibility team (the latter is more likely to know).
<slicer> persia: Do they have a #ubuntu-something?
<persia> slicer: Again, you're asking questions to which I don't have an answer :)
<slicer> persia: A fool can ask.. ;)
<pfeels> hey people
<persia> (and is right to do so, although not prefacing an individual may result in more answers)
 * slicer found it, it's #ubuntu-accessbility .. Who'd have guessed? ;)
<geser> Hobbsee: I guess I can't persuade you to sponsor bug 157668?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 157668 in scons "[Merge] scons 0.97.0d20071203-1ubuntu1" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/157668
<slicer> persia: I think I'll hold off using espeak by default until I've got that answered. As it is, espeak hogs the audio device, meaning mumble doesn't work. Which is "not good" :)
<persia> slicer: Right.  festival is still in universe, but thanks for trying.
<slicer> persia: The code is done and in SVN, so it's just to add -DTTS_ESPEAK to switch when/if it gets fixed.
<persia> slicer: Excellent :)
<mruiz> how the UUS queue work?
<geser> mruiz: you subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors to your bug and wait for a comment or an upload
<geser> it gets usually processed in less than a day
<persia> mruiz: People subscribe bugs to it, and the sponsors look at it, and either comment or upload.  The process is explained from a link from the page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing (my apologies I don't remember the exact URL)
<mruiz> thanks geser and persia :-)
 * persia notes that UUS seems to be running around 3 days just now, but may be speeding up again once the DIF passes, and sponsors aren't chasing the last merges
<slicer> Ok, as the espeak issue is postponed... I've renamed the user Murmur->murmur, added a murmur.defaults and cleaned up the scripts a bit. Does anyone have time to do a review update of http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=mumble ?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi geser
<jdstrand> \sh_away: I closed bug #173646 based on your comments, but wanted to follow up. I believe that dapper-feisty are not vulnerable as they are 1.2, but did you verify that gutsy isn't (1.3.6)?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173646 in acidbase "[CVE-2007-6156] cross site scripting vulnerability" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173646
<ScottK> slicer: I'd suggest you pull the new lintian from Hardy and run both source and binary (.deb) against it to see if it notices anything.
<LucidFox> slomo, are you here?
 * ScottK cheers Bug 130220 reaching "Fix Committed" status.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 130220 in malone "LP marks bugs fix released multiple times and sends multiple mails when a bug number appears in more than one .changes file" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/130220
<DaveMorris> Can someone do a revu of my package http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=libserial please
<jeromeg> jdong: hello; are you there ?
<slicer> ScottK: I'll install hardy in a vm, will help me more easily test.
<ScottK> slicer: That's good too.  The lintian binary should work just fine on Gutsy.
<persia> ScottK: have you started the backport for .41 yet?
<ScottK> persia: I requested it yesterday.
<ScottK> persia: I subscribed you on the but since I knew of your interest.
<persia> ScottK: I must have been confused then.  I saw the sync, but not the backport.  Perhaps I missed a message.  Thanks.
<ScottK> persia: It needs someone with Feisty to do a test.
<ScottK> Maybe it's me that's confused.
<ScottK> persia: It's Bug 175366 in any case.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 175366 in gutsy-backports "Please backport lintian (1.23.41) from Hardy to Gutsy and Feisty" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175366
 * persia doesn't expect many packagers to be using feisty by default.
<ScottK> persia: The previous one was backported to Feisty, so ...
<ScottK> If no one tests is, it won't get done.
<ScottK> is/it
<ian_brasil> does anyone know if ftp can mangle the checksum on a dsc file
<persia> ScottK: Makes sense.  feisty only has 3.7.2.2 though, which meant the last one actually applied to feisty.  .41 has a new policy level, and I only support the backport to gutsy because not all packagers have upgraded yet (the ride is rough pre-DIF)
<persia> ian_brasil: Shouldn't do: it's ascii.
<jeromeg> ScottK: i will test it in a minute
<persia> ScottK: I am subscribed.  My mistake.  Thanks.
<ScottK> jeromeg: Please comment in the bug and mark the Feisty task confirmed after you do.
<jeromeg> ScottK: yep
<ian_brasil> Mmm...must be something else then ;)..on an unrelated topic i requested a motu blog some weeks back and i have not heard anything yet (or i have heard back and lost the e-mail)
 * ian_brasil wonders who to poke
<Kopfgeldjaeger> hi. could someone have a look at the newest avidemux package in REVU? the current version is very very very.... very old
<jonnymind> Hello. I think I have everything streamlined in bug #174470. Can please someone check if there is anything else needed?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 174470 in ubuntu "Package for the Falcon Programming Language" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174470
<jeromeg> ScottK: done, comment added
<ScottK> jeromeg: Thanks.
<jeromeg> ScottK: np
<geser> persia: need we merge till DIF only "Outstanding Merges" or also "Updated Merges"?
<persia> geser: "Outstanding" definitely, "Updated" by preference.
<geser> was this similar handled during the dapper cycle?
<persia> geser: Haven't you been doing this one more release than I anyway :)
<persia> geser: I think for Dapper, it was a bit more chaotic.  My vague recollection was that MoM was first introduced then, and turned off at DIF.
<persia> I wasn't very involved in Edgy, but for Feisty, we kept chasing merges post DIF as we were really far behind.
<geser> persia: your first sponsored upload was for dapper while mine for edgy
<jonnymind> ... later.
<persia> For gutsy, we did a reasonable job, but there were still a couple "Outstanding Merges" about a month before UVF.
<persia> This time, I'm hoping we can get all the "Outstanding" merges done in 2007, and actually focus on bugfixing and integration up to feature freeze.
 * persia notes that Dapper had a couple extra months added to the development cycle, which skewed things oddly
<geser> persia: yes, that's what I wanted to ask. During gutsy merges were allowed till UVF, I did expect the same for hardy so I didn't pushed that much doing merges
<geser> persia: how does this merge "stop" affect new upstream versions? are they allowed to be merged before FF?
<persia> geser: Please do as many as you can as soon as you can.  We really want to get NBS clean in the next few weeks, or it becomes hard to evaluate stability.
<persia> geser: Sure, if you can convince a member of ~ubuntu-dev (including yourself) that it provides some useful feature for hardy, or fixes some useful bug for hardy.
<geser> persia: will do, in the last week I tried to get the number of FTBFS down and neglected my merges
<slicer> Hm. The hardy installer is too large to fit inside the X11 dekstop it starts :)
<persia> geser: No worries.  Your efforts with FTBFS have been great, and are more useful than merges in many cases :)
<geser> persia: does the same also apply for new upstream syncs after DIF?
<persia> geser: I don't see any difference between a sync and a merge, except for who does it.  I've been watching syncs since Dapper, and as long as I had a sensible Rationale (cool feature, annoying bug), I've never had an archive-admin turn down a universe sync request between DIF and FF (except once, when the "must be ACK'd by a member of ~ubuntu-dev policy came into effect)
<DaveMorris> hmm someone has just pushed a ppa verison of rhythmbox to revu
<persia> DaveMorris: That's not right, but at least it gets pushed down the the bottom where it can be safely ignored :)
<DaveMorris> yeah they prop didn't specify a taregt with dput
<DaveMorris> I think revu is the default isn't it
<geser> persia: so we are in a small UVF already?
<persia> geser: More, that there are no automatic systems flushing in new upstream versions: it requires a member of ~ubuntu-dev to do it manually.
<persia> It doesn't require approval of the UVF team, or an RC bug, or a diffstat, or any of that.
<persia> (or rather, will once DIF hits)
<geser> persia: yes, but during gutsy there wasn't a need for a rationale between DIF and UVF/FF
<persia> geser: Speaking personally, I wouldn't sponsor anyone's requests unless they explained why it was good, and I provided a rationale to the archive-admins for all the syncs I requested.  I would expect other sponsors to also encourage non-members of ~ubuntu-dev to explain themselves, and I would expect members of ~ubuntu-dev to have a reason other than "I was bored".
<persia> geser: Just to make sure I'm clear, as you're a member of ~ubuntu-dev, any new upstream you want, you should upload.
<persia> (but if it causes a transition, you get to fix it)
<persia> Also, for the many Ubuntu-only packages, I'd accept a rationale of "Hasn't been updated for hardy yet" for at least the next while.
<geser> persia: have we a locking method for the open merges, so that work doesn't get done twice? DaD?
<persia> geser: No, we're still broken.  We've DaD comments, and a few "Please don't merge" bugs.
<geser> ok, I'll announce then here on with merge I'm working
<persia> geser: sounds sane.  We really need to figure out a sensible locking policy for hardy +1: with both parents + mdt + manual merges + lpbugs.py having transformed completely, it's no longer easy to keep track.
<ScottK> persia: Check with the last person that touched it really solves the problem almost completely.
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<persia> ScottK: Not at all.  Lots of people aren't around, and lots of people don't care.
<ScottK> persia: Merges aren't emergencies.  One can ask and wait a bit.
<ScottK> persia: My almost are the 'don't care/don't respond' ones.
<persia> ScottK: Sure, but why bother, especially when someone's MIA.
<ScottK> persia: What's the Ubuntu definition of MIA?
<persia> My thought is that if someone cares, they'll either merge or block the merge somehow.  We should get them all done before DIF, and anything that causes a wait delays that.  If we merge to UVF, when do we bugfix?
<ScottK> I think using the comments on DaD is the simplest thing where there's doubt.
<ScottK> How do UVF and bug fixing relate?
<persia> ScottK: Not active, and perhaps not responding to email.
<ScottK> So wait a few days and then comment on DaD.
<geser> ScottK: if we had much time, I'd agree with you, but if we really want to get the most done before DIF, do we really have time to wait till someone reads his mails or joins here?
<persia> ScottK: I'd agree with that, except many people don't use DaD for various reasons.
<ScottK> persia: Sure, and I wouldn't enforce using it's merge tools, but using the status page isn't onerous.
<blueyed> ATTENTION: http://dad.dunnewind.net/grab-merge.sh always deletes all files in your current directory! - there's missing a "|| exit" (or "set -e")!
<blueyed> Lutin: ^^ can you fix that?
<persia> ScottK: Also, if it's your package: set yourself as the maintainer.  If it's a MOTU package, any Contributor (including MOTU) should feel free to hit it: it's only the rare complicated or poorly documented merge that matters.
<Lutin> blueyed: no, I can't, there's a clear warning about that. it's not a bug
<persia> ScottK: Depends.  I tend to use mdt and look at LP bugs for merges.  Going to DaD is one more step.  On the other hand, I'd argue that anyone doing a merge without checking LP for easy bugs to close along the way is not doing the merge properly.
<lionel> blueyed: it's the same with grab-merge.sh from MoM
<ScottK> persia: This is a fundamental point of disagreement.  I think team maintenance means we work together as a team and not anyone in the team should do whatever strikes their fancy.
<blueyed> Lutin, lionel: no. MoM's has "set -e"!!
<persia> ScottK: Yep.  It's likely the core point of many of our disagreements.  I don't think we can resolve that anytime soon.
<blueyed> Lutin: which warning? Why then ask in the first place?? You can only stop it with ctrl-c. answering "n" deletes also all files!!
<blueyed> luckily this was "only" /tmp for me..
<ScottK> persia: Ideally we'd get the MoM U/I updated and it's all be good, but as long as we have multiple tools, someone is going to be inconvenienced.
<Lutin> blueyed: what's the relationship with set -e ?
<ScottK> persia: I think filing a bug that says "don't merge" is an abuse of LP.  It's not a bug.
<blueyed> Lutin: "[ $ANSWER = y ]" will exit then. But not without "set -e". Please add "|| exit" there.
<persia> ScottK: That I can agree with.  I don't like to use MoM myself, but it's the documented official way, so I can accept needing to check it.
<persia> ScottK: Perhaps.  I think of LP as both a bug database and a workflow system.
<ScottK> persia: It is, but asking to NOT have something brought in from Debian is clearly not a bug of any kind.
<persia> ScottK: Right.  That'd be workflow.
<ScottK> Then find something other than a bug to call it.
<Lutin> blueyed: hum true, not sure why set -e got lost. dont have access to the server though
<blueyed> Lutin: who has?
<Lutin> Adri2000:
<Adri2000> blueyed: I'll fix that, thanks. dunno why nobody detected that earlier though
<mruiz> hi all. I want to work on the bug #160965. I'm waiting for some comments related to changes introduced by Debian. I sent an email to the DD, but I don't have a reply until now... how is the procedure for these cases?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 160965 in fetchyahoo "Please sync fetchyahoo 2.10.8-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160965
<blueyed> Thanks, Adri2000. Maybe because those who had reported it, lost there $HOME? ;(
<persia> ScottK: Let's table this.  We can at least agree that a MoM update is the right solution, and data sharing between MoM and DaD would be a benefit.
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> Agreed.
<persia> ScottK: Separately, once we hit UVF, let's make a lot of noise about the issue, and try to get a real solution for the next release :)
<ScottK> Sure.
<slomo> LucidFox: now i am
<alex-weej> i've downloaded a source package, used cdbs-edit-patch to edit a patch, now how do i make a "debdiff"?
<bddebian> debdiff foo_old.dsc foo_new.dsc
<alex-weej> bddebian: i only see one .dsc
<alex-weej> notification-daemon_0.3.7-1ubuntu9.dsc
<bddebian> alex-weej: Ah, did you not bump the changelog version? :)
<alex-weej> bddebian: no
<alex-weej> debian/ChangeLog?
<bddebian> aye
<alex-weej> better tool than gedit for adding a changelog entry?
<bddebian> dch
<bddebian> dch -i will insert a new entry
<alex-weej> ok it's trying to insert crap into the current version
<alex-weej> i guess i need to update control too?
<bddebian> Shouldn't need to
<alex-weej> it's trying to put my changelog entry under the last one for the current version
<alex-weej> ah, dch -i
<alex-weej> ok it thinks  my email address is alex@flash
<Adri2000> blueyed: fix committed, should be online at :30
<bddebian> alex-weej: You can either fix that manually or export DEBEMAIL=<my email addr>
<alex-weej> bddebian: so i've updated the changelog, how do i make these 2 dsc's?
<mruiz> norsetto, Hi. I want to work on the bug #160965. I'm waiting for some comments related to changes introduced by Debian. I sent an email to the DD, but I don't have a reply until now... how is the procedure for these cases?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 160965 in fetchyahoo "Please sync fetchyahoo 2.10.8-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160965
<norsetto> mruiz: well, you were asking the DD why he did these changes or why he didn't mention them in the changelog or?
<mruiz> norsetto, both
<alex-weej> help! when i debuild'd my package again it failed
<alex-weej> can i only do it once?
<norsetto> mruiz: what is the relevance of this to the sync/merge?
<alex-weej> bddebian: i tried to debuild again with my changelog updated and it just fails now :(
<mruiz> norsetto, I understood that it is important -> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fetchyahoo/+bug/160965/comments/1
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 160965 in fetchyahoo "Please sync fetchyahoo 2.10.8-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Incomplete]
<bddebian> alex-weej: Did you start from scratch?
<alex-weej> bddebian: no
<alex-weej> i didn't want to write my patch again
<norsetto> mruiz: yes, but I don't have in my memory all the 100s of bugs I have commented about, can you summarise it briefly?
<mruiz> hahaha
<bddebian> alex-weej: Copy your patch out of the way, re-extract the original source package copy your patch back in, update the changelog, and rebuild
<alex-weej> bddebian: ok, did i do something wrong?
<alex-weej> can i actually only build it once?
<bddebian> Oh, you'll need to re-pull the source package
<mruiz> norsetto, you asked about dropped ubuntu changes
<alex-weej> i struggle to understand how my workflow is supposed to be when working with debian packages
<afflux> hi! I merged briquolo some time ago. It got changed again in debian, but the only debian change was orphaning the package. Is this worth a merge?
<bddebian> alex-weej: No, you just over-wrote the original source package since you didn't bump the debian version
<norsetto> mruiz: right, we would loose those if we sync
<alex-weej> bddebian: i see!
<bddebian> afflux: I would say no personally
<alex-weej> bddebian: i just copied the .patch and the changelog over to the newly pulled source package
<alex-weej> should that be enough?
<alex-weej> can i just debuild now?
<blueyed> Adri2000: thanks. but it's not online yet.
<afflux> bddebian: okay, I'll Ieave it
<afflux> *leave
<Adri2000> blueyed: it is now
<norsetto> mruiz: can you check the new package from debian? They are at 2.11.2-1, so, this might be obsolete
<bddebian> alex-weej: "should" be, try it ;-P
<alex-weej> bddebian: seemed to work. i made my debdiff but it is very strange
<bddebian> how so?
<mruiz> norsetto, great... a new version ;-)
<alex-weej> bddebian: i see these diff.gz things
<alex-weej> bddebian: are they useful?
<alex-weej> bddebian: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10846061/diff that look OK?
<alex-weej> bddebian: i don't understand why there are changes to stuff that i haven't changed though :(
<alex-weej>  -SUBDIRS = standard
<alex-weej>  -DIST_SUBDIRS = $(SUBDIRS) bubble
<alex-weej>  +SUBDIRS = standard ubuntu
<alex-weej>  +DIST_SUBDIRS = $(SUBDIRS) bubble ubuntu
<alex-weej> i didn't change that!
<afflux> alex-weej: that line looks like it is from the patch file which is beeing diff'ed.
<alex-weej> oh yeah
<alex-weej> man, diffs of diffs
<afflux> alex-weej: I love that too :)
<bddebian> Yeah, ouch :-(
<blueyed> Is a watch file update worth a merge? I have it ready, but need to get it sponsored..
<ScottK> blueyed: Does the old watch file work?
<blueyed> ScottK: no, it does not - therefor it has been changed I guess.. ;) I've now also fixed two lintian issues (additional to merging), so it appears to be good IMHO.
<mruiz> bye all
<ScottK> blueyed: Sounds good.
<LaserJock> hmm, what's this Freeze stuff all about
<LaserJock> ?
<LaserJock> seems like we're consistently making it harder on ourselves
<ScottK> LaserJock: I agree.
<LaserJock> well, I guess if we get all the merges done by tomorrow it won't really matter much
 * ScottK doesn't see the sense in saying "Let's have all the by hand work done by the automatic import cut off"
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> if we don't merge then we'll release stuff that's not just 6 months old, but perhaps 1 year old
<LaserJock> for some packages we'll be very much behind Debian
<LaserJock> including probably bug fixes
<LaserJock> it makes sense to only pull in useful merges *if* you have the ability to actually do that
<ScottK> Maybe we should just file sync bugs on everything to keep up.  I think that may actually be encouraged now.
<LaserJock> but I dont' think we currently have the ability to actively know what needs to be brought in
<ScottK> Right, so let's just have them all.
<ScottK> </sarcasm>
<LaserJock> well, if we trust Debian then it should be straightforward to pull from there as long as possible
<ScottK> Personally, I think we've done reasonably well in the past without this new unannounced (not until now AFAICT) deadline.
<geser> yes, it would be good to know such a deadline a little bit earlier than two days before
<DaveMorris> btw http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=rhythmbox needs to be nuked, it was upload by mistake (should of gone to ppa)  I emailed the uploader and he confirmed it.  I can forward it on if you wish
<mruiz> ScottK, then the task for today and tomorrow is to work hard on merges?
<ScottK> I guess that's the theory.  I already did what I was going to do.
 * geser is currently merging lynkeos.app and multisync0.90
<LaserJock> ScottK: we've had such announcements before, but it was pretty much "you're losing automatic syncing so you probably want to do as much as you can"
<LaserJock> for Universe
<ScottK> Sounds about right.
<slicer> ScottK: Ok, it took some time to get a working hardy install, but it compiles and verifies mumble with lintian/linda.
<ScottK> slicer: Both on the source and binary packages?
<asac> RAOF: there?
<slicer> ScottK: *nod*
<slicer> ScottK: As in, 'debuild' and 'debuild -S -sa' both ran lintian and linda and didn't complain.
<slicer> Well.. lintian said that it had ignored 1 warning and 1 error, which are the ones I've specified in the lintian override.
<ScottK> slicer: That's on the source package.
<Ubulette> why don't I (everyone?) have access to .changes i REVU ? not even mine
<ScottK> slicer: Also run lintian packagename.deb (using the actual name of the .deb) too.
<slicer> But.. I.. Argh, I just shut down the VM. Aight, I'll boot it again.
<ScottK> Ubulette: Because if you had upload rights someone could take that file and use it to upload to an actual repository.
<ScottK> slicer: If you've added over-rides, be sure to carefully document the rationale (if you haven't).
<slicer> ScottK: It's documented on the REVU page. Do I need anything more?
<Ubulette> ScottK, hmm, ok. Fair enough, it should not be clickable then
<ScottK> slicer: I would also document it in the package so when someone else looks at it next year they understand why.
<ScottK> Ubulette: Dunno why they did it the exact way they did it.
<slicer> ScottK: Er. Are #comment legal in lintian override?
<ScottK> slicer: Dunno.  Never had to do one.
<jpatrick> I have seen some
 * RainCT wonders how a .desktop file can have "Version=1.1" XD
<nixternal> doko: have you figured a work around at all with the Java issue in Hardy (java: xcb_xlib.c:82: xcb_xlib_unlock: Assertion `c->xlib.lock' failed)?
<nixternal> ahh, but I just did
<nixternal> export LIBXCB_ALLOW_SLOPPY_LOCK=true
<cdm10> Hey, I've signed my packages, and added my public key to System>Admin>Software Sources - Authentication tab, but when I install from my PPA i still get the "not authenticated" error.
<geser> cdm10: are PPA signed now? afaik they aren't
<geser> cdm10: for that PPA would need your private key
<afflux> cdm10: you signed only the source packages, the binaries aren't as they are built automatically.
<slicer> ScottK: Ok, .debs, .changes, everything verifies with lintian. I added comments to the lintian override file.
<ScottK> Good.  That'll all make your review smoother.
<cdm10> geser, afflux: shoot, I didn't think of that... stupid me. Anyway, thanks.
<slicer> ScottK: It already verified, the only difference I've done is add the comments.
<ScottK> slicer: That's good.  The new lintian matches for the new standards version.
<muuluu> hi
<muuluu> need help pls?
<muuluu> hello anyone
<DktrKranz> muuluu, expose your problem :)
<muuluu> all type of linux random time freezing
<ScottK> muuluu: This is not a support channel.  Try #ubuntu.
<muuluu> i have Asus MB Core 2 Duo 6600, Geforce 7300 GS 400 watt power supply
<muuluu> i asked them many time times but there is no answer for me
<muuluu> i tried #linux same Suse same where can i go now :-(
<muuluu> ok thanks for ur responce anyway bye now
<nixternal> imbrando1: pingerz
<Lutin> does a core-dev have a minute to have a look at bug #173717 ? :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173717 in grub "Grub has a build-depends-indep against a multiverse package" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173717
<Lutin> apachelogger: ping ? about the filelight merge/sync
<RainC1> good night
<blueyed> ScottK: any chance you're using postfix-policyd? (or somebody else?)
<blueyed> bug 175731
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 175731 in postfix-policyd "postfix-policyd hangs at "connecting to mysql database:"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175731
<ScottK> blueyed: No.  I'm familiar with it, but don't use it.
<blueyed> ScottK: the changelog from 1.82 seems "promising": http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?group_id=133598&release_id=533414
<blueyed> Debian has still 1.82 though. I guess the best is to create an (inline) patch for this in Ubuntu, isn't it?
 * ScottK looks
<blueyed> I can recommend the program in general: it's great for a mailserver.
<blueyed> (if it does not hang that is)
<ScottK> Yes.  It's generally well thought of, it just doesn't fill a particular need I have.
<ScottK> blueyed: It looks like the Debian maintainer hasn't been keeping particularly current.  You might want to just prepare a 1.82 package for Hardy.
<ScottK> Once we have that you can ask about an SRU for your bug.
<LaserJock> who's in charge of DaD these days?
<ScottK> LaserJock: Adri2000 and Lutin.
<ScottK> IIRC only Adri2000 has server access.
<ScottK> blueyed: Looking at it some more, I'd say prep an upgrade for Hardy to 1.82.  I doubt Debian will do it soon.
<LaserJock> Lutin: still around?
<Lutin> indeed. (I have bzr access though, and the code is auto-synced from there)
<LaserJock> ah, there you are
<Lutin> LaserJock: sort of :)
<LaserJock> I was wondering if it is possible  to get a PTS link next to the LP link
<blueyed> ScottK: Ok. I'll file a bug about it and then look into it tomorrow.
<LaserJock> IMO, PTS is the most important resource for merging
<Lutin> LaserJock: should be possible, yep. (although I really wonder if I'm even able to write that)
<Lutin> LaserJock: I really don't know anything about php, so if you can tell me how to do it, I'll commit it :) (or wait tomorrow for Adri2000 to do it)
<joejaxx> where is my multiline irssi window notification plugin when i need it :P
#ubuntu-motu 2007-12-12
<LaserJock> Lutin: I don't know much PHP either, but you should be able to kinda of copy the LP link code
<LaserJock> hmm, although you will need the first letter of the package name
<Lutin> LaserJock: and even worse, the first four if it starts with 'lib'
<LaserJock> yeah
<Lutin> definitely too hard for me :p. going to bed. I'll ask Adri2000 tomorrow
<LaserJock> k
<LaserJock> no biggie
<Lutin> k :)
<LaserJock> it's just one of my pet peeves with MoM
<johnny_> hi folks
<johnny_> how can i tell what file was actually used to install a package
<johnny_> like.. say i installed it from a deb
<johnny_> via dpkg -i
<johnny_> for testing
<Ubulette> johnny_, you want to find the deb name given a file name ?
<Ubulette> or what?
<johnny_> i installed a deb and i want to some proof that it got used
<Ubulette> dpkg -l packagename
<Ubulette> it will show you the installed version
<johnny_> it's the same version
<Ubulette> not what you expected ?
<johnny_> well i built the package with the same version
<johnny_> because i didn't know any better perhaps
<Ubulette> oh, then it's difficult to verify
<LaserJock> johnny_: would looking at the contents of your .deb help?
<johnny_> what i wanted was a way to say that /root/ldm2_5.0.39.deb was used to install vs the ubuntu one
<LaserJock> johnny_: well, if you dpkg -i it and it installs then it worked
<TheMuso> You could do md5sum checking.
<LaserJock> johnny_: and you don't need to package as root
<LaserJock> johnny_: what are you patching in ldm?
<LaserJock> auto-login stuff?
<johnny_> i didn't package as root
<johnny_> i just put it in the i386 chroot
<johnny_> so i could install it
<johnny_> ok..
<johnny_> there we go
<johnny_> yes.. LaserJock you know .. cuz you're in that other channel :)
<johnny_> aha.. i figured it out
<johnny_> to prove to myself
<johnny_> i added some .... to one of the installed shell scripts and they appear
<johnny_> since i obviously couldn't look at the source
<johnny_> since i'm installing a binary
<johnny_> i come from the gentoo world.. so all the requirements to build packages is kinda confusing to me
<johnny_> i can built gentoo packages very easily
<johnny_> we use ubuntu at our coffeeshop, so i've had to learn a lot more of deb stuff
<LaserJock> good for you :-)
<LaserJock> johnny_: I haven't been tracking the auto-login stuff much, would your package be generally useful?
<johnny_> not really
<johnny_> ogra has told me that the patch much be simpler
<johnny_> and if it is, it will be packages for inclusion
<johnny_> packaged*
<johnny_> francis already has one
<LaserJock> ok
<johnny_> but the debs for the thin client are wrong
<johnny_> err deps
<johnny_> it wants a version of pango that isn't in the thin client
<johnny_> it might be related to post gutsy changes
<johnny_> where the thin clients are supposed to have a newer version of pango
<johnny_> my system pango is one version higher than in the chroot
<LaserJock> ah
<johnny_> so i might just bug francis to fix up his packages and make the actual patch smaller
<johnny_> i just need something working, and an excuse to figure out packaging
<johnny_> our entire business is almost completely based off open source stuff
<johnny_> and using ubuntu
<johnny_> we do have a few macs involved for illustrator and photoshop purposes
<johnny_> but otherwise.. we even use gnucash for finance
<LaserJock> cool
<johnny_> we're a non profit store for the most part
<johnny_> it's pretty great env we're setting up now
<LaserJock> darn, axiom died
<Laney> window level all
<Laney> oops :(
<alvinc> ;)
<blueyed> sudo has changed in Hardy so it does not forward env?? e.g. "FOO=1 sudo su -c 'echo $FOO'" does not work anymore.
<blueyed> I guess that's the reason my .pbuilderrc breaks for DIST=xxx
<blueyed> See this recipe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto#head-1be378ab60d3bab23eefabce49cf7df927d46f81
<slangasek> blueyed: yes, according to the changelog this was done in version 1.6.9p6-1ubuntu1; the Ubuntu sudo package's behavior is now consistent with the defaults upstream and in Debian
<blueyed> slangasek: so it would make sense maybe to change the "sudo pbuilder" call to "sudo -E pbuilder"?
<slangasek> that appears to be correct
<blueyed> PBUILDERROOTCMD="sudo -E" - should it be the default?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<blueyed> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hello blueyed
<blueyed> bug 175776
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 175776 in pbuilder "PBUILDERROOTCMD should default to "sudo -E"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175776
<blueyed> Good night.
<bddebian> Gnight
<bddebian> Heya persia
<persia> heya bddebian
<Ubulette> persia, hi
<Ubulette> http://stompbox.typepad.com/blog/2007/12/prism-is-neat.html
<Ubulette> 1st fan
<persia> Ubulette: :)
<bddebian> persia: Do you have an unstable machine?
<LaserJock> heh
<persia> bddebian: Yes, but only a chroot for sid.
<bddebian> persia: Do you have problems with libsdl1.2-dev atm?
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<persia> bddebian: No, but I'm guessing you're encountering audio issues related to competition between libsdl-1.2debian-alsa and libsdl-1.2debian-pulseaudio
<persia> (or, not competition between the libraries, but between the audio outputs)
<bddebian> persia: No, I can't even install libsdl1.2-dev
<persia> bddebian: Odd.  I'll take a look...
<bddebian> In my sid pbuilder
<LaserJock> I've got the weirdest problem with axiom
<LaserJock> it looks like we can sync it
<LaserJock> but it FTBFS in my hardy pbuilder
<LaserJock> I can't figure out why it would do that
<bddebian> What's the error?
<LaserJock> here's the relevant section of the build log: http://paste.ubuntu.com/2655/
<LaserJock> I checked to make sure it built on the Debian buildds and it did
<bddebian> Whacky
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I tried on two different machines
<LaserJock> I'll try it with my sid pbuilder, but the thing takes a long time to build
<persia> bddebian: Debian Bug #455490
<ubotu> Debian bug 455490 in libsdl1.2 "libsdl1.2: Uninstallable due to dependency on libdirectfb-0.9-25" [Grave,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/455490
<bddebian> Does configure miss anything?  Maybe debian pulls in a build-dep that we dont?
<bddebian> persia: Grr, thx.  I checked the bts but I obviously missed it
<LaserJock> bddebian: yeah, I'll try that. It's weird though cause it's not an error I'd expect if it worked in Debian
<LaserJock> it seems to be failing on cp not on actual building
<persia> LaserJock: Is this a repeatable error?
<LaserJock> persia: I built it on two different machines
 * persia finds the answer in backscroll, and withdraws the question
 * persia is, as usual, slow
<LaserJock> although I think I may have scp'd the base.tgz to the other machine
<LaserJock> so the pbuilders are "related"
<persia> LaserJock: This is building sid source against hardy?
<bddebian> Is axiom one of those that takes forever to build?
<LaserJock> bddebian: yep, 40MB source and builds latex and emacs stuff
<LaserJock> persia: yep
 * persia tries with a different build syste
<persia> m
<LaserJock> I'm pretty sure this is a sync
 * bddebian tries a "quick" build :-)
<bddebian> persia: boswars should be coming to Debian *soon*
<persia> bddebian: Just waiting on libsdl1.2-dev :)
<bddebian> Heh, no shit :)
<LaserJock> dang, I still have 10min left of downloading deps before I even get to start compiling axiom
<joejaxx> LaserJock: lol :P
<Hobbsee> local mirror FTW!
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: :D
<Hobbsee> heya!
<joejaxx> well i am going to retire for the evening
<joejaxx> Goodnight All
<bddebian> Gnight joejaxx
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: yeah, but I can't mirror everything
<Hobbsee> who said anything about who's mirror it was?
<imbrando1> LaserJock: get UNR to put up a mirror :)
<LaserJock> imbrando1: I should, but they don't seem to be very Linux friendly from what I've heard
<LaserJock> I should ask though, maybe they do have a mirror and I don't know about it :-)
<bddebian> heh
<bddebian> LaserJock: I get the same error
<LaserJock> bah
<LaserJock> well at least my pbuilder isn't borken
 * somerville32 is downgrading his internet connection :(
<LaserJock> downgrading?
<LaserJock> as in slower?
<somerville32> Yea
<somerville32> 7Mbs Down/256Kbs Up -> 1Mbs Down/128Kbs Up
<RAOF> What sort of crazy world gives you 128 kbps up?
<somerville32> Is 128kps up that bad? :S
<LaserJock> I have 1.5 down/5** down I think
<LaserJock> bah 5** up
<LaserJock> either that or 3** up
<RAOF> I think mine's 786 up.
<LaserJock> I can't remember
<somerville32> The next step up is 8 up and 1mb down
 * TheMuso has 1.5 down, and 256 up.
<somerville32> I'm downgrading to save money after they lied to me about a promotion
<somerville32> Sadly, they don't have a good intermediate package so now I'm moving to "Light" at the end of the month
<LaserJock> I just get the cheapest DSL I can find
<somerville32> I should have stuck with the express
<somerville32> It is only like $10 more anyhow :/
 * RAOF got the ~$50/month adsl2+
<somerville32> Mine is cable
<persia> LaserJock: I get a different error: http://paste.ubuntu.com/2656/
<RAOF> Heh, 22mbit down, 1mbit up. :)
 * victor_ got the 150$/month 4 MBit/s down 384 kbit/s up.
<somerville32> : O
<LaserJock> persia: hmm :(
<RAOF> Wow.  Somewhere worse than .au :)
<LaserJock> bddebian: so you got the same as me?
<bddebian> LaserJock: yessir
<persia> Bah.  .us & .au (& .nz & .ca) need to upgrade the common infrastructure.
<victor_> 4 MBit/s is enough to stream tv/movies
<LaserJock> persia: that was -10?
<somerville32> Omg, I feel so stupid. I shouldn't have downgraded :/
<LaserJock> somerville32: why?
 * imbrando1 has 6M/384K
<persia> LaserJock: axiom_20050901-10.dsc
<somerville32> I just calculated it, and it is only like $10 difference
 * LaserJock stabs a straw into imbrando1's computer
<ajmitch> not bad, mine's only about 6M/800K
<LaserJock> persia: well that's weird
<ajmitch> (or thereabouts)
<imbrando1> persia: common infra? isnt that against what the internet is about, diveristy hehe
<victor_> who has ever said that it's about diversity? that's only what 4chan wants you to believe! :)
<imbrando1> somerville32: so call them back
<imbrando1> :)
<persia> imbrando1: Maybe, but those are all tiny bandwidth numbers.  Ethernet is preferable.
<somerville32> imbrando1, It sounds like it was painful for them to switch it over and credit me crap when I did it :P
<somerville32> imbrando1, I might make them upset if I call back tomorrow and say "I changed my mind, sorry" :P
<imbrando1> somerville32: thats why you pay then its their job :)
<somerville32> I guess I'll wait and see if I even notice that big of a difference
<somerville32> It is unbearable, I'll call them back
<imbrando1> you'll feel like your on isdn :)
<somerville32> hehe
<somerville32> I never did isdn
<LaserJock> me neither
<somerville32> I could always go to ultra lite - $20 a month, 64kbs up and down
<somerville32> lol
<imbrando1> heh i had 2400, then 14.4 then 33.6 then 56.x and then bonded 56k then isdn then cable now dsl
<LaserJock> my parents have 28.8
<LaserJock> it's sooooo painful
<somerville32> If I can use POP3 or IMAP, which should I pick?
<imbrando1> i skipped that one hehe, its not even good nuff to check modern mail
<imbrando1> somerville32: imap IMHO if you have enough storage server side
<somerville32> imbrando1, google :P
<imbrando1> imap
<imbrando1> i love thier imap
<imbrando1> or use prism-google-gmail :) hehe /joke
<imbrando1> there is no gears support yet
 * TheMuso waits for the day when debmirror syncs those important pieces of the archive, such as indices, and installer-$ARCH files.
<TheMuso> Until then, I have my script. :p
<imbrando1> TheMuso: i can hack that into apt-mirror pretty simply
<TheMuso> imbrando1: apt-mirror doesn't suit my needs.
<imbrando1> ok, kinda dumbfounded on that one , but okies
<TheMuso> imbrando1: However, if it did support that stuff, I would re-consider it. I probably didn't give it enough of a look for what I needed to do
<imbrando1> TheMuso: i'd be intrested in hearing your use case , i'm not doubtign it, but i have failed to see a case where apt-mirror doesnt do what debmirror does and more+better
<imbrando1> doubting*
<TheMuso> imbrando1: Well, to build disks, you need the indices files, as well as the dists/$dist/main/installer-$ARCH files.
<imbrando1> right but neither does debmirror, i ment more of your first statement
<TheMuso> And dists/$dist/$section/debian-installer files.
<TheMuso> imbrando1: Yeah I know debmirror doesn't, which is why I've scripted it for now.
<saivann> The virtual package libgoffice-0-dev doesn't work anymore since libgoffice version has been updated to 0.5.3-1ubuntu1, can someone here fix this?
<saivann> this is in Hardy
<TheMuso> But debmirror allows the use of rsync.
<TheMuso> Afaik apt-mirror doesn't.
 * persia declares perl superior to ruby for parsing multimegabyte XML files
<RAOF> !doesntwork > saivann
<imbrando1> ahh no it doesnt TheMuso
<TheMuso> imbrando1: And my local mirror offers rsync, so I'm using it.
<imbrando1> it would be tricial to add though
<TheMuso> Yeah likely enough.
<imbrando1> trivial*
<imbrando1> persia: ?
<saivann> Sorry, I mean that the virtual libgoffice-0-dev package doesn't point to latest libgoffice version in hardy
<persia> imbrando1: for the same input, and the same processing library, a one-line perl script does XML -> YAML in ~800MB of working space vs. ~4GB for a one line ruby script.
<somerville32> 12.7K e-mails since I opened my gmail account, hehe :/
<imbrando1> persia: yea, i ment more what it pertained to hehe
<imbrando1> somerville32: nice you have about ~50% of what i do :)
<persia> imbrando1: My suddenly not having my IRC client swapping out :)
<imbrando1> hehe
<imbrandon> ahh better
<tritium> Anybody have a (modern) LaTeX resume/CV document class?
<somerville32> Oh wait
<somerville32> I guess that was only bug report e-mails, lol
<imbrandon> somerville32: i was gonna say thats kinda low
<somerville32> What ever it is doing now it says 33.8K
<imbrandon> just checked i have about 36k stored
<imbrandon> thats after a massive cleanup
<somerville32> And thats for your gmail account?
<somerville32> Why would you delete stuff in gmail?
<imbrandon> yea, because it was not needed
<imbrandon> most of it is old list archives
<imbrandon> already archived on the web
<somerville32> I'm a data pack rat
<somerville32> Never know when you'll need it :]
<saivann> Does somebody knows if the fact that libgoffice-0-dev doesn't exist anymore in Hardy is normal? libgoffice-0-5-dev seems to replace it, but I want to be sure
<persia> saivann: There's a transition underway, not currently complete.  As expected, hardy is broken in several ways.
<RAOF> persia, LaserJock: Just to be contrary, I get a *different* error to both of you when trying to build axiom.
 * persia suspects axiom to be a troublesome package
 * somerville32 suspects that persia is correct.
<saivann> persia : Gnucash dependencies is currently broken because of that package, do you believe that I should ajust gnucash dependencies or wait to see if libgoffice-0-dev package come back?
<persia> saivann: The APIs differ.  Could be ported.  Depends on how motivated you are.
<saivann> persia : Own, you mean that gnucash have some chance to not work with libgoffice-0-5-dev ?
<persia> saivann: Yes.
<saivann> persia : In your point of view, what's the better idea? Trying to make gnucash working with the new libgoffice version or port old libgoffice version from ubuntu gutsy in order to make sure gnucash will work?
<saivann> persia : I'm ready to work on this but I need some guidance because I'm really new to this
<imbrandon> the latter is part of the transition eventualy there will be a -0-4-dev iirc, as for doing something NOW, porting to 5 is the only viable option
<persia> saivann: I wouldn't do the former without checking mailing list archives, especially upstream.  The latter is pointless, as it won't "make sure" gnucash will work in hardy: it'd be better to understand why it was dropped, and see what the library maintainer has planned for the transition.
<saivann> persia : Great, I'll take a look at this, thanks for your help
<LaserJock> saivann: we have old goffice as of today
<persia> saivann: Thanks for looking into it.  Good luck.
<saivann> LaserJock : What do you mean?
<LaserJock> saivann: we got goffice 0.4 today
<saivann> persia : Thanks, I will have fun with this :)
<LaserJock> saivann: I'm assuming that's what you're needing
<saivann> LaserJock : Will it be available in Hardy?
<saivann> LaserJock : Yes, exactly
<LaserJock> saivann: yes, as of today :-)
<LaserJock> we had a bit of fun upstream with goffice
<saivann> LaserJock : Great, that means that I can sleep tonight :)
<LaserJock> which caused goffice to go to 0.5
<saivann> hehe
<LaserJock> but 0.4 is the stable version
<LaserJock> so gnumeric uses goffice, and stuff that needs 0.4 should use the new goffice0.4 packages
<saivann> LaserJock : I'm glad to hear this since no update will be needed for Gnucash
<LaserJock> we'll have to make sure it uses the right stuff, but goffice 0.4 *is* in Hardy today
<saivann> LaserJock : I assume that the packages names won't change? Will they?
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> we can't have multiple versions with the same name
<somerville32> imbrandon, 40.5K all together
<LaserJock> saivann: actually let me check the -dev real quick
<saivann> LaserJock : I only see the 0.5 versions in Hardy from now, is it normal?
<LaserJock> saivann: may depend on your mirror
 * persia notes that it may also take a while to compile recently imported libraries
<LaserJock> saivann: libgoffice-0-5-dev is for goffice 0.5 and libgoffice-0-dev is for goffice 0.4
<saivann> LaserJock : Thanks, it's still not available from now "libgoffice-0-dev has no installation candidate" but I'll wait few days
<LaserJock> saivann: is gnucash having problems right now? why did it come up?
<saivann> LaserJock : It doesn't install because it depends on libgoffice-0-4 which doesn't exist in repositories
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> but it *does* have that dependency?
<saivann> Yes
<LaserJock> hmm, our package is kinda old, I'm surprised it has the dependency
<LaserJock> are you talking about the current Debian or Hardy package?
<saivann> current Hardy package
<saivann> but it's not that old, it's the latest upstream version 2.2.1
<saivann> merged from debian
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> but goffice 0.4 is about 1 month old
<persia> LaserJock: libgoffice-0-4-dev is about 1 month old.  libgoffice-0-4 is older.
<LaserJock> well ...
<LaserJock> only in experimental
<LaserJock> as a part of goffice, not goffice0.4
<persia> LaserJock: Yes, as a part of goffice, but the binary package dependencies might not know the difference, due to the magic of shlibs (not that I've actually investigated this)
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> if gnucash in Debian was last built from experimental
<LaserJock> see
<LaserJock> this is why it's nice when people only package a library for one package
<saivann> :)
<LaserJock> gnumeric uses goffice 0.5 and *everything* else uses 0.4
<persia> LaserJock: What?  We don't import Debian builds.
<LaserJock> persia: sorry, I see it now
<LaserJock> I thought we missed goffice version 0.4
<saivann> LaserJock : Will the package *named libgoffice-0-4, libgoffice-gtk-0-4 and libgoffice-dev-0* came back or?
<LaserJock> well
<persia> LaserJock: No, just a source transition, from a single recommended version of the library to two supported versions.  I don't like these because it leads to things like wx2.4 + wx2.6 + wx2.8 or db4.* or automake-*, but it can significantly reduce (or rather, defer) the porting effort required for the transition.
<LaserJock> we have: libgoffice-0-4, libgoffice-0-4-dbg, libgoffice-0-common, libgoffice-0-dev
<LaserJock> from goffice0.4 source package
<LaserJock> persia: well, if some people didn't insist on doing certain things this wouldn't be a problem
<StevenK> persia: automake is a specific case, since you want to use exactly what version upstream is
<persia> LaserJock: Hrm?  How do we control which version of libraries upstream links against?  (Although you may be speaking about upstream).
<persia> StevenK: Yes, but wouldn't it be nifty if all upstreams used the same version?
<LaserJock> persia: no, I'm speaking of package maintainers who package unstable versions of libs for 1 app leaving the other packages hanging
<saivann> LaserJock : Great, so I just want to be sure of this : I don't have to make any modification on the Gnucash package?
<LaserJock> saivann: I hope not
<persia> LaserJock: Ah.  In that case, I'd suggest they should be agressively chasing NBS to port everything.
<LaserJock> NBS?
<saivann> LaserJock : Can I contact you about this if libgoffice-0-dev is still not available after a few days?
<persia> LaserJock: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS/ - if someone starts a library transition, they should work to get everything working with the new library.
<LaserJock> saivann: yes, please do, mantha at ubuntu.com
<saivann> LaserJock : Thanks a lot
<LaserJock> persia: yeah, this is part of why I'm starting to hate libraries
<persia> LaserJock: Usually the porting isn't so bad, and transitions can be fun: what other time do you have the excuse to upload 30 or so fixes simultaneously :)
<LaserJock> persia: well, actually the porting was deemed "umm, no" by upstream
<imbrandon> hrm "w00t" is getting added to the Webster dictionary, and coined word of the year 2007
<imbrandon> ugh
<persia> LaserJock: Ah.  That's a case where it'd be nice to have an annoucement about the transition, and documentation of the package split (like for WX).
<LaserJock> persia: yes, we got a bunch of Debian QA bugs filed yesterday
<LaserJock> and we had to explain why our package dep'd on a lib in the oldlibs sectoin
<LaserJock> *section
<TheMuso> Then there is things such as libglib1.2 -> libglib1.2ldbl
<TheMuso> Where there is no actual API change, just a package name transition.
<persia> LaserJock: That's a good thing: at least someone cares.  For a couple of the apps I really should be porting some day, the dependency isn't even considered oldlibs, as nobody really cares.
<LaserJock> so not only was their a change in libs but the Debian archive admins sent it to oldlibs
<persia> TheMuso: Wasn't that also an ABI change?
<TheMuso> persia: I'm not really sure, but packages were uninstallable because they couldn't find libglib1.2
<persia> TheMuso: I think it was a redefinition of a long double from 64-bit to 128-bit. (but I'm not sure)
<TheMuso> ah right.
<LaserJock> wow, axiom is *still* building here
<LaserJock> I am completely puzzled as to why axiom builds in Debian but not Hardy :(
<somerville32> What is the error?
<LaserJock> well, 4 people got 3 different errors
<somerville32> Ok, I'll try
<slangasek> clearly, these errors are themselves not axiomatic
 * RAOF pokes slangasek with a halibut
 * persia doesn't understand the poking.  Shouldn't it be more of a whallop?
<slangasek> fish are food, not friends
<LaserJock> I agree with persia, how do you poke somebody with a fish?
<RAOF> Talking fish can be friends.
<LaserJock> maybe a swordfish
<RAOF> LaserJock: gingerly
<persia> LaserJock: Freeze it first, or use a stiff fish.
 * RAOF is surprised to notice the emacs22 build dependency of axiom
<LaserJock> yeah?
<LaserJock> my guess is it's compiling something
 * persia wonders if there's really a significant speed gain for compiled elisp
<LaserJock> it depends I think
<LaserJock> considering how long it takes to compile it I often wonder
<somerville32> cody-somerville@RAOF:~/packages/gfceu$ sbuild -d hardy gfceu_0.6.0-0ubuntu1.dsc
<somerville32> chroot_mode is obsolete at /usr/share/perl5/Sbuild/Conf.pm line 163.
<somerville32> How do I fix that? :P
<somerville32> nvm
<persia> somerville32: Edit your schroot.conf
<RAOF> Or ~/.sbuildrc, IIRC.
<persia> (or maybe sbuild.conf: I forget: it's a completly opaque error with such a trivial solution it's hard to remember)
<somerville32> When I use sbuild, is it suppose to just say "Build started at ...\n****..." and then nothing?
<RAOF> somerville32: No, it should give a build log.
<somerville32> RAOF, It hasn't finished
<RAOF> Although it may be a bit slow, because we're contending for resources :)
<somerville32> oh
<somerville32> sbuild is weird :/
<somerville32> How do I get it to compile something arch all?
<somerville32> "gfceu_0.6.0-0ubuntu1.dsc: amd64 not in arch list: all -- skipping"
<RAOF> somerville32: Either use the i386 builder, or pass --arch-all
 * LaserJock hugs pbuilder
<Hobbsee> ich auch.
<somerville32> :S
<DarkMageZ> Hobbsee, at which point did you learn german?
<Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: only some of it, and in school.
 * persia notes that pbuilder is different than sbuild, and there are a number of cases where something builds in pbuilder and fails on the buildds
<somerville32> woots
<RAOF> Finished?
<RAOF> Something happened? :)
<somerville32> It compiled.
<somerville32> And now I shall have a patch for persia to review in a minute
<persia> somerville32: -ENOCONTEXT
<somerville32> persia, To take my mind off the death of my friend, I decided to start working on the watchfile project
<persia> somerville32: Ah.  Thanks for working on that, although I'm certainly not the only person who can review the results.
<somerville32> persia, I'm quite certain of that too
<somerville32> ;]
<LaserJock> saivann: hi again
<saivann> LaserJock : Hi :)
<LaserJock> saivann: I figured out why goffice0.4 isn't available right now
<saivann> LaserJock : I'm listening!
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Are you planning on merging/syncing plotdrop?
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: yeah, was looking at that today
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Thanks,
<LaserJock> saivann: I think perhaps the new binary packages have to go through the NEW queue
<saivann> LaserJock : So it's only a matter of time
<LaserJock> persia: how long does it take from when a .deb is built to it hitting a.u.c?
<StevenK> LaserJock: Is it ACCEPTED or DONE?
<persia> LaserJock: Assuming you mean the time between the buildds finishing a compilation and the time it appears in a.u.c, it's variable.  I don't really understand Soyuz, but I believe it is 43-103 minutes.
<LaserJock> hmm
 * Hobbsee suspects most peopel don't understand soyuz.
<LaserJock> StevenK: neither :/
<StevenK> LaserJock: Link me to the page?
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: which packages need to go thru?
<Fujitsu> It should be available around :45 of the first hour in which it is ACCEPTED before :03.
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: goffice0.4
<LaserJock> I wonder if soyuz got confused
<Hobbsee> wouldn'tb e the first time
<LaserJock> the .debs built 16 hrs ago but are not on a.u.c
<persia> Ah.  42-101 minutes.  Thanks Fujitsu :)
<StevenK> LaserJock: Yes. It's *NEW*
<LaserJock> and I don't see anything but translations in +queue
<LaserJock> StevenK: but I don't see the binaries in +queue
<Fujitsu> Translations are bound to their binaries, no?
<Fujitsu> i386-translations,i386?
<persia> LaserJock: NEW is manual.  It gets hit on the next NEW day, which seems to be twice a week or so.
<Fujitsu> Or the next Hobbsee poking, no?
<Fujitsu> Oops, `i386,raw-translations'
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> I thought the translations were separate
<Fujitsu> Evil Soyuz inconsistent representations.
<LaserJock> then that would make sense
<StevenK> LaserJock: May I suggest a new pair of glasses? :-P
<LaserJock> StevenK: why?
<ScottK> persia: Did you see the lintian backports got done.  I bugged Riddell about them.
 * persia thinks a new screen would go well with that.
<StevenK> goffice0.4,goffice0.4_0.4.2-4_i386_translations.tar.gz (i386,raw-translations)
<LaserJock> yeah, how am I supposed to know that that means the .deb?
<persia> ScottK: No (but I'm not a backports user).  Someone should update the bug (or LP should email me)
<persia> ScottK: Thanks.
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: By realising that Soyuz is special.
<LaserJock> that looks like just translations to me
<Fujitsu> (and it has the binary icon too)
<ScottK> Short bus special.
<persia> ScottK: Nevermind.  Yes, but not yet for feisty (I need to read my mail more carefully).
<StevenK> LaserJock: There's two icons next to it, "Binary" and "Translation"
<somerville32> Do I want python-dev or python-all-dev?
<ScottK> somerville32: Or python?
<persia> somerville32: Are you building modules?
<ScottK> It depends
<StevenK> LaserJock: You can also hit the arrow next to it to expand it and see what it includes
<LaserJock> StevenK: and how am I supposed to know what th eicons mean?
<somerville32> persia, just an application
<persia> LaserJock: Experimentation
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i tend to avoid the new queue
<LaserJock> StevenK: right, I figured that out *afterward*
<persia> somerville32: Just python then, I think.
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Hovering.
<StevenK> LaserJock: If you hover your mouse over the icon, it has a tooltip
<ScottK> somerville32: Is it arch all?
<somerville32> ScottK, yes
<ScottK> somerville32: Just Python then almost certainly.
<LaserJock> StevenK: which is utterly idiotic UI design
<persia> LaserJock: I disagree, but think manual might help.
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: who said anything about sensible UI design?
<LaserJock> persia: a UI that requires you to have prior knowledge to figure out what you're trying to learn is a bit stupid IMO
<LaserJock> am I supposed to just have my mouse over anything in the page to see if perhaps theres some tooltip?
<persia> LaserJock: Depends on the intended audience.  Manuals are cool, and busy interfaces are annoying.  In this case, I agree that the lack of information about how to discover information is an issue.
<Fujitsu> If you don't understand what an icon means, it's probably good to check.
<Fujitsu> (by hovering)
<LaserJock> well, if you just give the information the first time that might work too ;-)
<ScottK> LaserJock: Clearly if you didn't get it it's all your fault since we all know LP's design is perfection personified.
<LaserJock> well, I may be a little slow I guess, but it was quite confusing for me
<LaserJock> translations should be in Rosetta
<Fujitsu> LP does certainly need some UI work. Particularly the Soyuz bits, which are generally utterly confusing.
<ScottK> </sarcasm> in case anyone missed it.
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Translations have to come from the builds and enter the distro at some point.
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> but that should be a different queue
<ScottK> Would somebody in Canada go wake up Tonyyarruso.  I've got a Kompozer question.
<persia> LaserJock: Why should it be a different queue?  They get uploaded to the same place.
<Fujitsu> Heh.
<LaserJock> saivann: anyway ... it is waiting for an Archive Admin to approve the .debs
<LaserJock> persia: oh?
<LaserJock> there is no mentions of .deb  in "goffice0.4,goffice0.4_0.4.2-4_i386_translations.tar.gz (i386,raw-translations)"
<Fujitsu> I see an `i386' there, therefore it's a binary.
<saivann> LaserJock : That's great, thanks all for your hard work on this, I appreciate it
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: sure, but translations from that binary
<Fujitsu> As to why it gives the translation filename, I doubt we'll ever know.
<LaserJock> not the binary itself
<LaserJock> saivann: no problem
<persia> LaserJock: translations seem to only come from i386, but get pushed for everyone.
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: The architecture is `(i386,raw-translations)'
<StevenK> LaserJock: If you expand the arrow, you'll see four .deb 's
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: how do I know that's the arch?
<LaserJock> what I'm saying is they're throwing text out there, none of which indicates that that row is for the binary
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: I don't know of anything else referred to by the string `i386'
<StevenK> I do.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: I assumed it was translations *from* i386 not i386 itself
<StevenK> [17:21] [FreeNode] -!- i386 [n=.....]
 * Fujitsu stabs StevenK.
<StevenK> There's an IRC nick i386 :-P
<StevenK> LaserJock: It's both.
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: hint:  whinging at MOTU about lp design is unhelpful.
<LaserJock> StevenK: but why would I know about it
<StevenK> Fujitsu: That tickles!
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: other members of MOTU have only discovered this stuff by happening to figure it out
<StevenK> Right
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: oh, I know, I'm just trying to figure out if it's just me or not
<LaserJock> apparently it is
<StevenK> It's just you. Launchpad hates you specifically
<LaserJock> well, I will tell you the biggest reason I missed it I think
<LaserJock> we didn't used to have the translation stuff in +queue I dont' think, or it was separate
<StevenK> No <blink> tag that says "Jordan, the binaries you want are here --->" ?
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> the line is at least heavily geared towards translations because of the filename there
<somerville32> Please sponsor bug #175802 :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 175802 in gfceu "Sponsor gfceu_0.6.0-0ubuntu2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175802
<LaserJock> StevenK: something like that ;-)
<LaserJock> perhaps I'll have a talk with cprov/kiko about it
<LaserJock> usually they tell me I"m on crack anyway so it won't be anything new ;-)
<Fujitsu> ....
<Fujitsu> Why did I just have one of my sync requests Wishlisted and Newed by somebody I've never heard of?
<LaserJock> helpful people
<StevenK> Oooer, set to New. Way coo
<StevenK> cool, even
<Fujitsu> Ah, saivann! Please don't do that.
<saivann> Fujitsu : Don't do what?
<Fujitsu> saivann: Set my sync bugs to New. Or anybody's, for that matter.
<persia> saivann: Unconfirm a developer confirmed bug
<saivann> Fujitso : Oh sorry, can you show me what bug that was?
<persia> saivann: Despite the documentation that says people can't self-confirm: that doesn't apply to developers.
<TheMuso> WOOHOO!! I know why UbuntuStudio disks couldn't be built with jigdo files. Now to make a patch to fix it.
<Fujitsu> Bug #175797
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 175797 in omniorb4 "Please sync omniorb4 4.1.1-1  (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175797
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: Why couldn't they?
<LaserJock> I'm starting to wonder if it'd be helpful to have some sort of flag or something for process bugs
<saivann> I'm sorry about that, thanks for telling me this
<persia> LaserJock: I don't think so.  If I file a normal bug, and can confirm it, and point at the code, I think it belongs "Confirmed", even if it's not a process bug.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: It has to do with the way the main/restricted, and universe/multiverse parts of the archive are separated out on the cdimage build system. WHen ubuntustudio disks are built, main/restricted are symlinked into where the universe/multiverse stuff is stored. This hense causes md5 generation to fail, which mkisofs+jigdo with md5 checking choaks on.
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<LaserJock> persia: right, but I was thinking it might help for some other issues as well, maybe
<somerville32> Fujitsu, When you post the changelog for a sync. You usually include the last ubuntu entry as well (to see a summary of ubuntu changes).
<StevenK> TheMuso: Yeah, I suspect the cd building machinery is geared for building from main
<persia> somerville32: I don't do that, and almost never see it.
<TheMuso> StevenK: It is, but its the way Colin tried to keep things separate.
<Fujitsu> persia: I think similar.
<StevenK> somerville32: Geh? requestsync doesn't do that
<TheMuso> StevenK: Shouldn't be hard to work around though, now I know which part of debian-cd needs patching.
<LaserJock> somerville32: It think your'e supposed to include *from* the last ubuntu entry, not including the last ubuntu entry
<somerville32> You're required to describe the ubuntu delta and why it can be dropped.
<somerville32> The last ubuntu entries will either have those changes or a summary
 * persia agrees with Laserjock, although somerville32's sponsoring bugs with the .changes are also nice
<TheMuso> somerville32: Not always.
<TheMuso> Thtas why there is the explanation in the first place.
<TheMuso> thats
<persia> Well, the explanation has other value as well...
<TheMuso> Yeah I know.
<somerville32> If I was an archive admin/motu, I would be checking the changelog to ensure that the person filing the sync request did indeed clearly describe the changes
<TheMuso> I think it depends on how busy the archive admins are.
<persia> somerville32: Why?  The archive admins trust the developers.  Sponsors will check that.  The developers could just upload, but don't due to complex historical issues.
<LaserJock> well, that's not really the point I don't think
<Fujitsu> MOTU should be checking the diff.
<LaserJock> I think the point is that the .changes have all the additional changelog entries
<LaserJock> so if you were to look at .changes you'd be able to get a pretty complete changelog
<LaserJock> and so if you're watching -change you see what's actually changed
<LaserJock> not just the latest change
 * Fujitsu isn't sure how that's relevant.
<LaserJock> because mdz scans -changes looking for stuff ;-)
<Fujitsu> How does that affect which changelog entries we put in the bug, or vice versa?
<persia> LaserJock: Yes to all of that, but it doesn't matter for the format of sync bugs: the archive admins generate the .changes
<Fujitsu> (and the .changes don't include the current sourcepackagerelease)
<LaserJock> persia: right
<LaserJock> I don't think it particularly matters if you include the last ubuntu entry
<somerville32> No, it really doesn't if you plan to sponsor it
<persia> LaserJock: Doesn't matter at all.  That's the consensus point :)
<LaserJock> but I was talking about the general practice of including more than just the last in .changes if it's around
<persia> LaserJock: That's merges, but yes.
<StevenK> I don't because requestsync doesn't. I will clearly state what the changes were and why they can be dropped, though
<LaserJock> persia: yep, and I see merges and syncs as quite similar so I would tend to do the same thing
<somerville32> I don't use requestsync so I do include the last ubuntu changelog entry because it usually includes a summary of remaining ubuntu changes from that merge
<LaserJock> StevenK: ah well, I don't use requestsync so that might make a difference :/
<persia> LaserJock: Right, but you don't want to do that because of Origin:, so you leave it to the archive admins, who expect something like the output of requestsync.
<somerville32> I just think that information is useful instead of me paraphrasing it
<Fujitsu> somerville32: I hope you mean `in addition to', not `instead of'
<somerville32> Fujitsu, I do
<LaserJock> somerville32: well, in recent times it's been much more useful
<LaserJock> before the last ubuntu changelog entry was pretty useless most of the time
<LaserJock> before,
<persia> LaserJock: When?  Policy has always been to include all relevant changes new to Ubuntu in .changes
<persia> LaserJock: Nevermind.  I misunderstood.
<pwnguin> suck. two nights witghout power =(
<somerville32> Bug #172926 is an example of what I tend to do
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 172926 in harvestman "Sync harvestman 1.4.6-6 from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172926
<warp10> Hi all!
<somerville32> I suppose it doesn't make much difference if you plan to sponsor it
<persia> somerville32: Sure, but the info at the bottom of the bug is largely useless, as you've put it at the top.  The only reason to bother is if someone might not trust you, and as you enter the data in the description, if you're not trusted, it would be checked anyway.
<somerville32> I'm working under the premise that I'm not trusted because I don't have upload rights :P
<persia> somerville32: Right, you're not trusted (in that sense), but for the same reason, the info at the bottom of the bug can't be trusted either.  My opinion is that the bug should be formatted as if you were trusted, as your sponsor would ideally not need to change anything when they submit to the archive admin.
<somerville32> ok
<LaserJock> hmm, this is new:
<LaserJock> dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: debian/plotdrop/usr/bin/plotdrop shouldn't be linked with libgconf-2.so.4 (it uses none of its symbols).
<StevenK> LaserJock: From the new dpkg
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> hmm, so the PPA confusion begins
<Hobbsee> it did long ago
 * Hobbsee has requested one of the canonical people go and strongarm infinity into fixing the bug.
<Hobbsee> failing that, i'm sure mneptok will help
 * Fujitsu pokes bug #136399
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 136399 in soyuz "PPA builders performing normal Ubuntu binary mangling" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/136399
<StevenK> Ahhh, which explains why -motu got mailed
<LaserJock> ahh
<LaserJock> where does that show up?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: In the Maintainer field.
<Fujitsu> And in an absence of translations, unless you know where to look.
<LaserJock> I know
<LaserJock> but how does the user get at it
<Hobbsee> apt-cache show foo
<Fujitsu> apt-cache show someevilppapackage
<LaserJock> I wouldn't think the Maintainer field would be that user-visible
<Hobbsee> or if it shows in update manager, etc
<Fujitsu> (tautology, I know)
<LaserJock> hmm, I guess I just didn't think people would use apt-cache for looking for that kind of thing
<Fujitsu> Synaptic would do it, probably.
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: How else do people know to email the ML with their bugs?
<LaserJock> I would expect them to actually use LP
<LaserJock> I would think that would be what people would get funnel'd to via tools/google/wiki, etc.
<Fujitsu> No, that's why the send them to MOTU Media.
<Fujitsu> (the maintainer for all modified universe packages is MOTU Media, thanks $somebug)
<Fujitsu> s/they/they/
<Fujitsu> Baaah.
<Fujitsu> s/the/they/
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: that would require LP being easy enough to use for people who haven't seen it before
<Hobbsee> as soon as they get the "this project is not using LP message" they give up, and email it
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Or file the bug against Launchpad instead.
 * persia wonders how one is supposed to file a bug against a PPA anyway...
<Hobbsee> or that
<Hobbsee> speak to the team that created that ppa, i think
<persia> Hobbsee: Right, so it's an email, so the mangling means it's always us :)
<Hobbsee> yup
 * Fujitsu advocates bugs for PPAs, and partner being a special case of PPA.
<Fujitsu> That way we get a nice non-Ubuntu branding for all.
 * persia encourages Fujitsu to spec that for May
 * persia thinks a PPA is just a special case of a distro hosted by LP
 * Fujitsu notes he can't exactly write LP specs.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: you'll probably have turned to the evil side by then
 * Fujitsu hides his tail.
<persia> Fujitsu: You can register a blueprint, and put a spec on w.u.c, and it will get cut & pasted to w.c.c if accepted.
<Fujitsu> I'm sure Canonical people have a plan for this sort of thing, anyway.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: I suppose I can tighten some thumb-screws on that, if it'll help
<LaserJock> I've expressed my concerns all along about this kind of thing
<LaserJock> and if I have some good examples I might get somewhere
 * Fujitsu can't see partner changing for a very long time (we have a released distro using it, although it would be cool to get rid of it before we have an LTS on it).
<persia> Fujitsu: And go back to commercial?
<Fujitsu> persia: I'd prefer a special PPA to something entirely independent of LP.
<persia> Fujitsu: Makes sense
<Fujitsu> It was a good idea to put it on LP, and much of the backend work is useful for other things, but having it as a component within Ubuntu is not right.
 * persia gives Hobbsee a special 3-month pass permitting complete abstention from direct communication with users
<Hobbsee> persia: why?  what have i done?
<ScottK> Oooh.  Me too.  Me too.
<Hobbsee> oh, my $sick-of-lp-bugs reply.
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: you're a little ... direct these days ;-)
<Fujitsu> persia: I'm not surprised you didn't know about +commentedbugs. It only appeared a few months ago.
<persia> Hobbsee: You've spent lots of time responding to a high volume of user requests in LP, various mailing lists, and IRC channels.  You deserve a reward.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: You mean the one about the PPA to the MOTU list?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: yes
<persia> Fujitsu: I plan to use it to track down those I touched before I started subscribing to everything.  I expect to to be useful.
<persia> Further, it's a nice way to check people's activities in LP when asked to be a "fan".
<ScottK> Hobbsee: It may not suprise you to discover I didn't think it was overly harsh.  It's actually nicer than the one I'd have written, but I guess that's not saying much.
<LaserJock> if they got it from the .deb then you can't blame them I guess
<LaserJock> one would hope that the ppa URL would give it away
<Hobbsee> true, but apparently not
 * Hobbsee --> gone
<persia> Is it a bug that Slow Keys offers to activate when someone doesn't hold down a key, but X is swapped out?
<Fujitsu> persia: You mean somebody holds down a key and switches, leaving X with no release event?
<persia> Fujitsu: I didn7t "switch", X just got caught in the thrash, so 8 seconds went by before the release event appeared.
<Fujitsu> Ohh.
<Fujitsu> I don't see how it could be worked around.
<persia> I juyst don't know that it's worth tracking it as a bug, as people shouldn't expect normal behaviour with lots of swapping anyway.
<ScottK> persia: What would be the bug?  "Slow Keys didn't anticipate eventual arrival of release event"?
<LaserJock> will requestsync give you the option to just have text rather than sending an email?
<persia> ScottK: Maybe, or maybe it would make sense to have Slow Keys track something at a lower level, where there are actual interrupts for keypress/release.  Not easy to solve, even were it worth reporting (and based on thee two responses so far, I think it's not: beter to say "Buy more RAM, or don7t run that!")
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: You can hit Ctrl+C at the end and copy it...
<LaserJock> ah, k
 * LaserJock is slightly annoyed with tools that assume you can send email from your machine
 * Fujitsu gets annoyed with machines that can't send email, instead.
<swisgard> ScottK,
<swisgard> are you the scott from webchat?
<ScottK> swisgard: No.
<swisgard> exact nicks with same capitalization :P
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: why? I don't want my machines sending mail off :-)
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: What would you be running that would be sending external mail without your request?
<LaserJock> I don't know
<LaserJock> but I'd rather not have to worry about it
<LaserJock> I don't send mail from my machines so why would I want a MTA around
<persia> Laslaserjock: If an application wants to send mail, it can do so, regardless of whether the host supports it.  It's only thte applicaiotn s that you want to be able to send mail that would use the system mail queue anyway.
<somerville32> Please sponsor bug 175813
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 175813 in catfish "Sponsor catfish_0.3-ubuntu2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175813
<LaserJock> yeah, I just don't like CLI apps sending mail, bad experiences I guess
<LaserJock> if I send an email I want to use my email app and make sure I have a record of it, etc.
<dholbach> good morning
<somerville32> Hiya dholbach
<dholbach> hey som
<dholbach> oops :)
<dholbach> good morning somerville32 :)
<somerville32> :)
<ScottK> Good morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hey ScottK
<dholbach> how are you all doing?
<ScottK> Tired (it's 3AM here)
<dholbach> ugh
<dholbach> when do you have to get up again?
<ScottK> 7AM.  It's not clear yet if I'll be in bed by then ornot.
 * Fujitsu sends ScottK to bed.
<dholbach> what are you working on?
<dholbach> it seems we need the MOTU-send-to-bed police - we should have had it for crimsun and Hobbsee already
<Fujitsu> dholbach: Yep.
<LaserJock> dholbach: well, for some of us it's you ;-)
<dholbach> LaserJock: what are you doing up still? :)
<LaserJock> I always know it's time to go to bed when dholbach shows up
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Heh.
<dholbach> I need to show up earlier :)
<dholbach> oh man... the sponsoring queue has grown hugely
 * dholbach starts triaging
<LaserJock> hopefully lots of merge/sync bugs
<dholbach> a few of them, yeah
<dholbach> lots of .desktop files too though
<dholbach> I'd be really happy if those landed upstream-upstream
<dholbach> so they'd get translated properly
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I wish we had a good way to deal with that
<dholbach> if you ask seb128 about it, he'd say: don't upload, forward upstream instead
<dholbach> he feels quite strongly about it
<dholbach> he wants a tip-top 100% french desktop :)
<LaserJock> yes ... he's chewed me out about it before ;-)
<dholbach> hehe
<LaserJock> but we should be translating them in rosetta
<LaserJock> that's what it's there for
<dholbach> it's not that easy
<LaserJock> well sure, or we would have done it already
<dholbach> the problem is that you need to hook the desktop files and stuff into the build system
<LaserJock> I just think seb128 works a lot more with active upstreams
<ScottK> dholbach: Work for a customer who figured out that the guy that was doing the data analysis for his presentation on Thursday is actually on vacation.
<dholbach> the way most of our desktop file patches are done, they just add a static file
<dholbach> ScottK: now you're doing the data analysis?
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: hmm, seems like we've got quite a lot of delta for maxima
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: just filed a sync request for plotdrop
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Quite. mwolson introduced it last release, and I'm not an emacs god.
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Danke.
<ScottK> dholbach: Yes.
<dholbach> ScottK: I hope you'll be able to take a nap at least. :-/
<ScottK> Should be able to.
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Good to see that delta will be gone soon.
 * somerville32 yawns and looks at the solid, LCD numbers on his clock: 04:25
<ScottK2> Let's hear it for redundant internet connections.  Provider A is still dead.
<Adri2000> LaserJock: I'm adding the PTS link to DaD
<Adri2000> err, didn't even realize he left
<Adri2000> anyway, committed
<\sh> moins
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> ugh wrong tab
<sakhi_> ohi all
<geser> good morning
<coNP[uni]> Guten Morgen, geser
<geser> :)
<\sh> does anyone know if evolution or any other email client is able to read .pst files from exchange?
<broonie> There is a plugin for Thunderbird, I believe.
<imbrandon> \sh: thunderbir, then mbox, then evolution
<\sh> imbrandon, so thunderbird can import .pst files...cool...that's all I need :)
<huats> morning everyone
<geser> morning huats
<huats> morning geser
<ikonia> ahh imbrandon
<imbrandon> ikonia: ?
<imbrandon> moins huats and geser
<ikonia> imbrandon: ahh hello
<imbrandon> ikonia: heya , not to be rude but do i know you ?
<ikonia> imbrandon: apologies for the direct query, but I'm trying to get a clear status on the flash-nonfree package you've applied a fix for and its status. Launchpad shows it as "fix released" however I am unable to verify exactly it's status
<ikonia> imbrandon: we have spoken once or twice over email, certainly nothing personal
<imbrandon> ahh okies, umm yea i uploaded the fix to hardy ( thus the fix relesed status )
<imbrandon> backports nor updates to stable releases have ben completed though
<imbrandon> if thats what you mean
<imbrandon> ( it was just a md5 update )
<imbrandon> ikonia: hehe and email is personal, dident mean to sound rude, just dident reconise your nick :)
<ikonia> imbrandon: thats fine, so is the status of the hardy package going to be backported or will the gutsy pasckage get an update
<ikonia> imbrandon: I built an updated gusty package and want to know if it is worth submitting rather than the hardy backport if that is going to take time to progress
<ikonia> as you say it was md5 checksums only and the removal of a check for the now removed files in the post file
<imbrandon> ikonia: well it kinda has to be done with the hardy sources, but to that end it isnt really a matter of how hard it is, its a matter of me or jdong getting in touch with pitti to see about if it should be backported or pushed via -updates
<ikonia> imbrandon: is there anything I can assist with, I see you have a silly long line of bugs with your name on it, and the confusion over this bug is causing a little bit of noise in the #ubuntu support channels and forums that would be nice to close off
<imbrandon> ikonia: i applogise for the delay, its largely my fault i put it on the back burner, i'll see what i can get done today
<imbrandon> ikonia: hrm not really at this point other than ask them to be patient hehe, hopefully i can get something pushed today
<ikonia> imbrandon: no need to apologise, I'm just trying to understand the current situation as the launchpad bug has turned into a living mess and want to be clear about what I'm advising to people to keep them happy and working
<ikonia> imbrandon: thanks for your efforts.
<imbrandon> np
<imbrandon> infact it should be clsoe to time for pitti to be waking up, i'll see if i can raise him soonish
<imbrandon> close*
<TheMuso> imbrandon: If he's on IRC, he's awake.
<ikonia> excellent
<TheMuso> i.e he's on right now.
<ikonia> imbrandon: as I say, not a moan, just looking for clarifiction.
<imbrandon> ikonia: no worries, sometimes i need a kick in the arse to get soemthing priortised
<imbrandon> :)
<ikonia> imbrandon: it is low priority your right but the trouble its causing in support is a bit of a pain
<ikonia> imbrandon: flash is "life and death" to the majority of desktop users
<ikonia> ......apparantly
<imbrandon> i totaly understand, its a high profile package :)
<ikonia> spot on
<TheMuso> Bring on gnash I say.
<imbrandon> TheMuso: hehe yea
<bab> hi.. short question:  i filed #175725 which i thought was a simple sync, and then it turns out it needs a 4-line patch for python 2.4->2.5.  is the request filed correctly?
<bab> not sure about ubuntu protocol, i generally just do debian stuff
<persia> bug #175725
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 175725 in regina-normal "Please sync regina-normal (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175725
<persia> bab: It's typically a good idea to retitile the bug to something like "Please merge regina-normal 4.4-1 from Debian unstable (main)" when a merge ends up being required.  Also, you'll want a changelog entry for 4.4-1ubuntu1 in your debdiff describing the required variance.
<bab> persia: ta
<imbrandon> hrm actualy the more i think about it flash is multiverse and i'm on the new SRU team for that hehe, seems like a good canidate to test the new process
<imbrandon> s/new/old
<persia> imbrandon: Has the team reviewed the policy and process, and come up with the new one yet?
<persia> Err.  Perhaps not :)
<imbrandon> persia: no, but i think i can follow the old ( pre current ) process, as it will likely be the one used or soemthing close
<imbrandon> e.g. package prepared, 2 sru team acks, uploaded to proposed, 5 testers, migrated to -updates ( very simplified )
<imbrandon> persia: ^
<persia> imbrandon: The resolution restoring ~motu-sru included the expectation that the appointed team would review the policy & process, and either change to more closely match main or provide explanation of the variance.
<imbrandon> persia: exactly
<StevenK> persia: IOW, get cracking?
<imbrandon> persia: the pre-current process was almost identical to main iirc
<persia> StevenK: No, I won't say that unless it's still pending in 9 days :)
<persia> imbrandon: Maybe.  I just want the duly appointed reviewers to determine and document current practice, as I feel we're asea
<imbrandon> ikonia: mind giving me your email/lp username , i'll likely have you gather testers when it hits proposed
<imbrandon> persia: definately, we have a psudo list email going arround now working on getting an irc meeting going
<imbrandon> psudo list as in its just a cc of all the new sru members
<persia> imbrandon: Excellent news :)
<imbrandon> heh
<ikonia> imbrandon: sure, may I message it to you ?
<imbrandon> sure
<bab> persia: thanks, all done
<persia> bab: Excellent.  Thanks for helping out.
<imbrandon> ok good news, pitti just had me upload the update to proposed and since we have so many testers in hardy already it will be fasttracked, and he proposed a perminate SRU ack for it since its just md5 sum updates
<imbrandon> ikonia persia crimsun jdong ^^ :uploading now
 * persia doesn't think that's a good idea: it should still need testers, as the binary blob has implicit dependencies that may change
<imbrandon> persia: then the deps would have to be changed
<imbrandon> this is for md5 updates only
<persia> imbrandon: You can't backport libc :)
<imbrandon> right the ack is only for -proposed
<imbrandon> not directly to updates
<persia> imbrandon: Ah.  In that case: "Cool"
<ScottK> persia: There were guidelines about procedure in what MOTU meeting approved too.
 * persia looks again
<imbrandon> moins ScottK
<ScottK> imbrandon: Good evening (I'm still awake)
<imbrandon> ahh
<persia> ScottK: Isn't it morning there anyway?
<ScottK> persia: It can't be morning.  I haven't slept yet.
 * persia thinks it's one thing to expect people to track timezone (which is hard), but tracking personal internal state is more so...
<imbrandon> ikonia: ok flash uploaded to -proposed, as soon as pitti approves it i'll email -motu and cc you to gather testers, as soon as we have a few successfull testers it will migrate to -updates
<persia> ScottK: You mean the "approved by one member" guideline?
<ScottK> persia: Yes.
<ScottK> Didn't recall if there was more
<persia> ScottK: The only other I see from https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2007-November/002806.html was the requirement for documentation of the rationale for universe variance from the main policy.
<persia> (which is apparently in-progress)
<soren> If someone is bored, feel free to grab my merges (axiom and mit-scheme).
<imbrandon> soren: i think laserjock was working on axiom ( not positive, but from comments in here i gatherd that )
<soren> Oh, ok.
 * soren greps the irc logs
<soren> imbrandon: Ah, yes, so he was.
<persia> soren: laserjock was reporting that axiom looked like a sync, but three different build testers reported three different build errors, so there's something odd that may need investigation.
<soren> persia: I'm definitely getting a different build error than the one in the ftbfs bug report.
<Kmos> morning!
<Hobbsee> good morning
<geser> Hi Hobbsee
<geser> Hi Kmos
<Hobbsee> hey geser
<mruiz> hi all
<Kmos> hi geser
<Kmos> :)
<Kmos> Hobbsee: morning!
<mruiz> dholbach, I'm fixing the details related to the merge (#160601)
<dholbach> great
<Kmos> mruiz: i've received your mail =)
<mruiz> :-)
<Kmos> mruiz: if you need sokme help, tell me :)
<Kmos> *some
<mruiz> thanks Kmos , sorry for the delay but I was busy with other things
<Kmos> mruiz: np
<Kmos> i understand.
<asac> RAOF: i have a working patch for miro + xul 1.9
<asac> RAOF: the package to test is in the mozillateam ppa ... can you take a look and point out any regressions?
<asac> (i haven't used miro before, so i cannot tell if there are regressions)
<Kmos> asac: that will be cool to miro debian maintainer test it :)
<asac> he?
<asac> debian doesn't have xul 1.9 yet
<Kmos> ah =)
<mruiz> I have a bug related to a sync with an specific version; Debian added the latest version but the bug # 160965 includes version 2.10.8-1 (and the latest is 2.11.2). What should I do: use it or create a new one?
<persia> bug #160965
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 160965 in fetchyahoo "Please sync fetchyahoo 2.11.2-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160965
<Kmos> mruiz: i think we should sync from debian
<persia> mruiz: You will want to reuse that bug.  If the previous bug was resolved (i.e. Fix Released), you'd want a new one, as it requests a new action.
<mruiz> Kmos, of course... I'm asking about the sync bug
<Kmos> no ubuntu changes are applicable
<mruiz> thanks persia
<kiko> hey thre
<persia> hi kiko
<kiko> has anyone seen sivan around recently?
<kiko> I wanted to ask him something but he's off the face of the internet
<soren> kiko: I saw him yesterday.
<kiko> soren, right here?
<soren> kiko: In #ubuntu-devel.
<kiko> aha. thanks!
<soren> :)
<kiko> as sivan or sivang, soren?
<soren> sivang
<mruiz> thanks Kmos
<Kmos> mruiz: np
<Kmos> Can someone help me with this bug in building? http://pastebin.com/dcd1d627
<Kmos> i got it from debian, but got that problem here in hardy pbuilder
<imbrandon> Kmos: looks like it could possibly missing a build dep
<Kmos> imbrandon: i've added it, but still not working
<Kmos> libexpat.so.0 -> libexpat1-dev
<geser> Kmos: which package is this?
<Kmos> geser: wink
<Kmos> bug 175076
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 175076 in wink "Please merge wink 1.5.1060-4 (multiverse) from Debian unstable (non-free)" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175076
<mruiz> we need to sync a package (bug #160965)... who is the responsible to concrete the sync?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 160965 in fetchyahoo "Please sync fetchyahoo 2.11.2-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160965
<ScottK> mruiz: Subscribe UUS and a sponsor will review it in due course.
<Hobbsee> how many hours until DIF?
<persia> mruiz: Subscribe the sponsors queue.  A sponsor will review, and either comment or approve.  If approved, it will be submitted to the archive admins for processing.
<mruiz> thanks ScottK, persia
<persia> Hobbsee: When is DIF in UTC?
 * ScottK vote end of the day AET.
<persia> If 12:00 (which I think is often), we're already past.
<persia> ScottK: heh
 * ScottK ponders a TZ data patch.
<Hobbsee> oh, excellent!
<persia> Hobbsee: Why?
<Hobbsee> if i read persia's mail correctly anyway, there is no process apart from "a ubuntu-dev thinks it should be done.  do it"
 * Hobbsee has an outstanding merge.
 * Hobbsee likely has other stuff to take care of, too
<persia> Hobbsee: That would be the policy, yes :)
<persia> Hobbsee: On the other hand, you have to actually care if the merge/sync breaks something now.
<Hobbsee> persia: sounds suspiciously like what i was suggestign for after feature freeze :)
<Hobbsee> persia: don't we always?  those of us running hardy, anyway
<geser> Kmos: I think you can't do anything about wink as this a binary which needs libexpat0 (current is libexpat1)
<persia> Hobbsee: I don't think that's good for feature freeze.  I like "2 members of ~ubuntu-dev think it's a good idea, or it's just a bugfix" at that point.
<Hobbsee> persia: that was my plan back in sevilla - it wasn't a current one.
<persia> Hobbsee: No.  Before DIF, people tend only to care about installed packages, and NBS varies widely.
<Hobbsee> persia: besides, the occupants of ubuntu-dev has changed, to the point where such a policy would not be good for the distribution
<Hobbsee> persia: i care if a package i'm using stops working :)
<persia> Erm.  I'm not sure I agree with that characterisation of newer members of ~ubuntu-dev, but I'm glad you've seen the light :)
<persia> Hobbsee: Right, but now you have to also care if the package you updated breaks something else.
<Hobbsee> well, duh :)
<Hobbsee> persia: you mean that ubuntu-dev people don't have to anyway?
<Hobbsee> even if it's only detected later
<Hobbsee> if you've uploaded something a couple of months ago, and it's only just been found, then you still should care about it.
<persia> Hobbsee: I don't think it's as important pre-DIF.  As an example, I think it's better to merge the new libraries, and chase NBS once most of the merges are done, rather than building a transition plan for each and every merge.
<Hobbsee> oh, indeed.
<persia> For the "couple months" case, it's never still be pre-DIF, so I'd agree with you.
<Hobbsee> was thinking of exploding packages and the like, not general archive maintaince like NBS
 * txwikinger2 wonders if he should inform MI5 about those exploding packages ;)
<persia> Hobbsee: Ah.  Yes.  exploding packages (or even just those left unattended on the train) should be dealt with appropriately even pre-DIF
<geser> txwikinger2: won't they put Hobbsee and persia to jail?
 * Hobbsee randomly explodes persia then
<txwikinger2> Nah... different jurisdiction :)
 * persia goes boom after a 1 minute delay
 * Hobbsee turns into Tim the Enchanter
 * Hobbsee points, and explodes geser
 * Hobbsee points, and explodes Kmos too
 * Hobbsee turns txwikinger2 into a white rabbit.
 * txwikinger2 has a very explosive personality today :D
<ikonia> imbrandon: apologies I was away from my desk and I've missed your message, could you please repeat it
 * txwikinger2 wants to be a multicultural rabbit
<persia> txwikinger: What does fur color have to do with culture.
 * Hobbsee puts txwikinger2rabbit through the wash
 * persia gives txwikinger 2 different watches
 * pochu joins the /me fun :)
<txwikinger2> persia well nothing and everything... depends on who you ask :D
<kagou> Hi
<kagou> i'm searching information about packaging a project that use jam instead make
<Hobbsee> kagou: search for packages that have a build dep of jam-related stuff
<geser> kagou: supertux, trigger, lincity-ng build-depend on jam, perhaps looking at their packaging might help you
<Hobbsee> ahh, i'ts supertux
<kagou> great , i was searching for this packages :
<kagou> :)
<kagou> thns
<kagou> thanks
<Hobbsee> 8 choices, it appears
 * Kmos implodes again
 * geser fixes an other FTBFS bug due to bashism :(
<Kmos> geser: and I can't patch wink to use pat1 instead of pat0 ?
<geser> Kmos: wink is a binary provided by upstream
<geser> upstream needs to rebuild it with libexpat1
<Kmos> geser: so i'll bug upstream =)
<Kmos> geser: thanks for your help
<swisgard> hey guys, i have a question about ubuntu development.
<geser> Kmos: it looks like there was a change in libexpat1 between gutsy and hardy
<geser> Kmos: libexpat1 in gutsy has /usr/lib/libexpat.so.0 but the one in hardy
<geser> swisgard: just ask
<geser> Kmos: libexpat1 in gutsy has /usr/lib/libexpat.so.0 but not the one in hardy
<swisgard> i come from Windows, where i did quite a bit of programming just randomly, but i've just recently come to Ubuntu, so i feel kinda of crippled, not being able to do things i know in linux you know, just becase i don't know linux :P
<swisgard> but i would like to help with the development of ubuntu
<Kmos> geser: that breaks it..
<Kmos> :(
<swisgard> but i have no idea how to get started
<Kmos> geser: in hardy it points to .so.1 ?
<imbrandon> swisgard: are you looking to program or package ?
<swisgard> well, i don't know how to package, so i guess either
<Kmos> !packaging | swisgard
<ubotu> swisgard: The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<swisgard> ah, thanks
<geser> Kmos: gutsy has /usr/lib/libexpat.so.0 and /usr/lib/libexpat.so.1 while hardy has only the second one (.1)
<imbrandon> Kmos: ugh
<Kmos> imbrandon: :-)
<imbrandon> swisgard: anyhow we primarily handle pacaking in here, but for programing its vastly the same
<Kmos> geser: thank you..
<imbrandon> and vastly diffrent
<imbrandon> Kmos: that "ugh" wasent a good one
<swisgard> imbrandon, the programming is just handled in #ubuntu-devel or something, and this place is more packaging?
<imbrandon> no the programing is handled mostly upstream
<imbrandon> in diffrent projects like gnome or kde
<imbrandon> mostly
<imbrandon> and yes this and #ubuntu-devel are pacaking , just diffrent levels of it
<swisgard> is there an IRC channel for the programming?
 * persia notes that we do some bugfix programming as well
<Kmos> imbrandon: i just tried to help.. sorry
<imbrandon> swisgard: sure there are thousands, depending on the project
<imbrandon> mostly you want to pick a project that intrests you
<swisgard> ah, so its different channels that are just run by each project
<imbrandon> yup
<swisgard> its hard for me to get used to the idea of an open source community as well
<swisgard> i like linux and the open source very much, i just feel kind of lost in it atm.
<imbrandon> yea its hard to wrap your head arrround, honestly if your brand new, i sugest bugfixing for a distro and working your way back upstream
<imbrandon> if thats what intrests you
<swisgard> yeah sure, is this upstream from bugfixing (packaging)
<imbrandon> that would be the lowest entry point
<imbrandon> well kinda, never heard it put like that but yea
<imbrandon> swisgard: so do you use ubuntu or kubuntu or another flavor?
<swisgard> i use ubuntu, though i also have xubuntu installed.
<zul> morning
<swisgard> i just like gnome the best i think
<swisgard> KDE doesn't really appeal to me
<swisgard> hi zul
<imbrandon> ok i cant eliborate on this greatly because i'm about to leave for a few hours but hree is what  would do in your shoes, and work up from there, install virtualbox and then install hardy inside that, use it and pick something small that bugs you, find if its been reported on launchpad.net as a bug ( something small to start off, not like the kernel )
<imbrandon> and go from there ( asking in here as you go along )
<swisgard> hardy is the beta version that is out right now?
<imbrandon> its the development version yes, beta in the windows world and linux world mean very diffrent things
<imbrandon> think of it more like Google, prepetual beta :)
<swisgard> i see
<swisgard> so all of the development is done on the beta, and the current version of the distro is left alone
<Hobbsee> correct.
<swisgard> and they are all implemented at periodic updates? or just in one big distro update
<imbrandon> yes, except for major regressions or data loss, but that is much further down the road in your dev carreer
<Hobbsee> the latter
<persia> swisgard: Development is done on the development target, and the release is left alone.  The status of the release varies by package.
<swisgard> i see
<swisgard> well this is making things a little clearer :P
 * persia notes there was a periodic update for Dapper, so there might be one for Hardy in the future, but this is very much a special case
<imbrandon> it can be quite daunting for a new commer, all i can say is take baby bites, it may seem ultra small but things tend to expand more than you think
<LucidFox> Indeed.
<swisgard> cool
<swisgard> i'll get virtualbox real quick
<imbrandon> notes vmware or kvm or qemu would work also, i just personaly like virtualbox over the rest
<imbrandon> for freenessa nd speed
<imbrandon> freeness*
<swisgard> ah
<swisgard> the virtualbox-ose package
<persia> Is virtualbox really faster than KVM? (assuming real KVM on the right hardware)
<imbrandon> persia: if you have VT extensions its about the same, without them vbox is greatly faster
<swisgard> alright, installing those necessary packages
<imbrandon> swisgard: yea the -ose is "open source edition"
<persia> imbrandon: makes sense.  qemu isn't so fast.
<imbrandon> swisgard: they have a commercial and non-free edition but its largely not needed for this use case
<imbrandon> only for server virtualization etc
<swisgard> so i need to burn an iso for hardy
<imbrandon> basicly if you have used vmware server you'll be at home with virtualbox, if not its pretty simple to pickup
<swisgard> i haven't ever use anything virtual
<swisgard> unless DSL counts
<imbrandon> swisgard: you can use the iso to boot from directly without buringing, it can mount iso's directly as cdrom's
<swisgard> ah
<imbrandon> or you could use a gutsy install and upgrade it to hardy
<imbrandon> if you already have a gutsy cd
<swisgard> im on gutsy right now
<swisgard> i have a gutsy cd right beside my laptop
<effie_jayx> hello
<swisgard> hi
<imbrandon> that will work, just install that and dist upgrade , if your not familiar with that i'm sure someone could point you to a wiki or walk you through it, but with that i must run a few hours, gluck
<imbrandon> later yall
<swisgard> bye, thanks for the help
<swisgard> anybody care to tell me how to get goin with this vbox
<swisgard> i have a gutsy cd i'm just gonna use
<persia> swisgard: You may find performance better using a .iso as a virtual CD, rather than a physical CD
<swisgard> ah, alright
<swisgard> guess i'll go download the ISO then :P
<imbrandon> dd if=dev/cdrom of=~/Desktop/gutsy.iso
<imbrandon> make your own ^^
<imbrandon> dd if=/dev/cdrom of=~/Desktop/gutsy.iso
<imbrandon> typo ^^
<swisgard> neat, linux can rip ISOs? >:)
<imbrandon> linux can do anything ;)
<swisgard> i mean, windows can rip ISOs, but it doesn't equipped with that ability
<imbrandon> it dosent come with office and bunch of other things too, welcome to Ubuntu :)
<imbrandon> ok i'm really gone bbiab
<swisgard> persia, am i executing dd in the VM or my own at the moment?
<swisgard> well, i guess it'll have to be in my own right now
<swisgard> because the VM has nothing installed.
<persia> swisgard: I'm not a virtualbox user, but I'd suggest building the iso on the base system, and pointing virtualbox to the iso as a virtual CD when you boot, and use it to install a virtual environment.
<swisgard> you use kvm?
<persia> swisgard: I use a collection of chroots (I used to use VMs, but I stopped caring as much about protecting my base system).
<effie_jayx> I have been talking to the debian mantainer about smc http://packages.qa.debian.org/s/smc.html, I wanted to merge a new version to ubuntu
<swisgard> how long does an ISO rip typically take
<effie_jayx> however he claims that one of the suggestions the last person that merged it for ubuntu was that one of the depends was a dev file
<imbrandon> depending on cdrom speed ~10 minutes
<persia> swisgard: That's entirely hardware dependent.  Between 2 and 74 minutes.
<nixternal> imbrandon: you get my message about the dude with the puters?
<imbrandon> nixternal: yup yup
<swisgard> the sticker on my computer actually doesn't tell what speed it is.
<effie_jayx> do you think it is worth it for me to merge that package
<swisgard> doesn't say on the drive either
<swisgard> oh well, thats what i get for having a laptop
<imbrandon> swisgard: here is a tutoral about install ubuntu in vbox on windows, the ui is the same for linux
<imbrandon> http://www.simplehelp.net/2007/05/13/how-to-install-ubuntu-studio-in-windows-using-virtualbox-a-complete-walkthrough/
<effie_jayx> considering that the dependencies have not changed and it was one of the suggestions the last merger did ?
<imbrandon> swisgard: e.g. ignore the windows specific stuff, the vbox screenshots and such are the same on linux
<swisgard> interesting, the ISO is 730MB, when you download it from ubuntu its 699MB
<persia> effie_jayx: It sounds like a communications confusion in the past (which is part of why it's nice to use the BTS to communicate with Debian maintainers).  Personally, I agree with Debian bug #454679, but it depends on why the -dev was added.
<ubotu> Debian bug 454679 in smc "smc: binary package should not depend on *-dev packages" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/454679
<imbrandon> swisgard: the makeshift dd command i gave you dosent make an iso compliant image, but one that will work with a emulator or can be burned again
<mruiz> ping dholbach
<imbrandon> there are better tools to make "true" iso's like mkisofs etc
<geser> effie_jayx: smc was synced today
<imbrandon> but that one will work for what you need
<persia> effie_jayx: I don't see anything in the smc changelog that would indicate the reasoning behind the dependency.
<effie_jayx> persia,  the debian mantainer is a friend of mine
<effie_jayx> and he claims he should work on it over the holidays
<geser> persia: bug #136435
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 136435 in smc "smc - Secret Maryo Chronicles - unmet dependency in Gutsy" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/136435
<persia> geser: That's a shlibs bug in libcegui-mk2-1
<swisgard> how much RAM do you suggest giving to the VM
<swisgard> i have 1gb
<swisgard> it recommends 256, but that sounds like it'll run slow
<imbrandon> 256 minimum, 512 max
<swisgard> k
<persia> swisgard: The more you give it, the better it will run.  On the other hand, the less you keep, the slower you will be.  I think 384 is a good balance for your setup.
<geser> persia: yes, it's a bug somewhere, but till it is fixed smc seems to need the dependency on the -dev package :(
<persia> geser: Why not just fix libcegui?  smc is the only rdepends, which is why a patch to smc works, but the next client will also be broken.
<geser> persia: I haven't checked what exactly is the problem
<persia> geser: The library isn't pushing version information to clients, and also not providing a symbolic link for unversioned clients.
<persia> Installing -dev works because it includes the symbolic link, not because of the headers.
<persia> effie_jayx: If you'd like to play with libraries, this might be a good way to start.  The risk of affecting multiple packages is very low.
<swisgard> VirtualBox kernel driver not installed. The vboxdrv kernel module was either not loaded or /dev/vboxdrv was not created for some reason. Please install the virtualbox-ose-modules package for your kernel and execute '/etc/init.d/vboxdrv start' as root.
<swisgard> that happens after i set everything up and tried to start it
<swisgard> Package virtualbox-ose-modules is a virtual package provided by:
<swisgard>   virtualbox-ose-modules-2.6.22-14-server 6
<swisgard>   virtualbox-ose-modules-2.6.22-14-generic 6
<swisgard> You should explicitly select one to install.
<swisgard> im guessing generic?
<dholbach> mruiz: pong
<soren> swisgard: "echo virtualbox-ose-modules-$(uname -r)" will tell you :)
<persia> swisgard: Depends on which kernel you have installed, but yes, likely -generic
<swisgard> yep,
<swisgard> what exactly was that $(uname -r) i just did?
<persia> swisgard: It prints the kernel-release.  man uname for the other options;
<swisgard> virtualbox-ose-modules-2.6.22-14-generic is already the newest version.
<swisgard> virtualbox-ose-modules-2.6.22-14-generic set to manual installed.
<swisgard> The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required:
<swisgard>   libgsf-gnome-1-114 libboost-thread1.34.1 libboost-date-time1.34.1
<swisgard> Use 'apt-get autoremove' to remove them.
<swisgard> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
<swisgard> moogle@nowhere:~$
<persia> swisgard: Strange.  Also, you likely want to use a pastebin (e.g. paste.ubuntu.com) when sending a bunch of stuff, or we'll complain about flooding.
<mruiz> dholbach, I don't understand your suggestions. About debhelper change do you think that I should add the comment to the changelog?
<swisgard> ah, ok
<swisgard> but yeah..it tells me i don't have it, then tells me its there and current?
<soren> swisgard: Do you have access to /dev/vbox?
<dholbach> mruiz: I'd probably drop it, it adds no worth
<swisgard> no such directory it says
<swisgard> er, it'll be virtualbox eh
<swisgard> actually i just did ls /dev and it really isn't there, nothing about virtualbox
<mruiz> dholbach, but are you talking about the changelog only?
<man-di> swisgard: is the vboxdrv kernel module loaded? Check with lsmod.
<swisgard> no
<dholbach> mruiz: about the actual changes
<mruiz> dholbach, ok
<man-di> swisgard: thats your problem, try modprobe vboxdrv as root and be happy
<swisgard> ergh
<swisgard> now its telling me i don't have write access to /dev/vboxdrv and that i should add myself to the group
<man-di> swisgard: your user need to be in vboxusers group obviously
<persia> swisgard: It's progress :)  Might take a few more steps, but should be ready soon.
<mruiz> dholbach, about debhelper version : why we should preserve Debian suggestion  (>> 4.2.13) instead of Ubuntu (>= 5) ?
<swisgard> man-di, yeah, i gathered that but i don't know how to do it
<dholbach> mruiz: because if we stick to debian's change, we have to merge less in the future
<dholbach> mruiz: a higher debhelper build-depends doesn't earn us anything
<swisgard> i just did it, actually
<swisgard> nvm
<swisgard> i need to logout and back in, brb
 * zul is evil 
 * persia notes that sometimes bumping debhelper is useful: check the changelog to see if you need a certain feature in a newer one: this makes backports not break.
<persia> (but likely not in this case)
<swisgard> its still telling me i dont have write access
<soren> swisgard: You need to be a member of the vbox group.
<soren> swisgard: Oh, you already did that.
<soren> swisgard: What does "id" say?
<swisgard> uid=1000(moogle) gid=1000(swisgard) groups=4(adm),20(dialout),24(cdrom),25(floppy),29(audio),30(dip),44(video),46(plugdev),104(scanner),108(lpadmin),110(admin),115(netdev),117(powerdev),120(vboxusers),1000(swisgard)
<mruiz> dholbach, why debian/compat didn't appear as conflict if debian/ubuntu versions are different?
<dholbach> mruiz: the change doesn't get us much - we can stick with the debian change
<mok0> ping
<persia> mok0: You need to preface with "!" to get an automated response.  Otherwise, we might just ignore you :)
<mok0> hehe
<mok0> I need someone to merge & upload bug 173321
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173321 in maxima "Please merge maxima_5.13.0-2 from debian" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173321
<swisgard> so nobody has a stab at why my vbox isn't working?
<man-di> swisgard: sorry, jsut works here after loading kernel modul and adding user to group
<soren> swisgard: It's not really on topic for this channel, you know..
<swisgard> it started out on topic, as i was installing for development of hardy
<mok0> Shocking to discover that merge ends today!
<persia> swisgard: Certainly.  Unfortunately, nobody who knows well is both around, and bored enough to hunt down the answer.  You might get luck in a support channel, or from reading the documentation.  Sorry about that.
<persia> mok0: Shocking?  How so?
<mok0> I thought we had much more time, since release date is in april
<persia> mok0: Ah.  There's basically four phases to development.  The first (just completed) involves grabbing all the updates we can from everywhere as a basis for the next release.  The second (just starting) involves integrating it all to make something reasonable (which may involve updates from other sources), and lasts until Feature Freeze (mid-February).
<mok0> ... but there are still many packages from Sid that have not been merged...?
<persia> The third involves trying to fix all the bugs and make sure everything is stable, and lasts until Beta Freeze (late March I think).  The fourth, and final phase involves chasing down the remaining release blocking issues.
<mok0> We can still upload new packages, right?
<persia> mok0: Less than 1% of the shared package volume remains unmerged, and maybe 5% of the variance.  We're running a little behind.  Just starting the freeze doesn't mean we have to stop merging, just that we should be a little more selective.
<michael14486> how can i easily packadge shell scripts
<persia> Yes, new packages are still welcome (until Feature Freeze)
<persia> michael14486: CDBS + debhelper + package.install
<michael14486> sorry persia: i have no idea what that means.
<mok0> persia: I have one merge pending, I hope to be able to do it tonite
<mok0> persia: one beside maxima, that is
<persia> mok0: Excellent.  You're doing better than I: I still have quite a few (mostly I was waiting for syncs), and don't expect to finish until this weekend.
<mruiz> dholbach, I'm recovering dirs file (from debian package)
<mok0> persia: do you need an exception, then?
<persia> michael14486: I'm not finding a good example package.  There is an explanation of CDBS in the packaging guide, and for shell scripts, you'd only need a one-line debian/rules.  For information about debian/package.install, man dh_install.
<geser> persia: are you going to merge neverball? my name is on it but you have done the changes (I only fixed the maintainer field and sponsored it).
<persia> mok0: Yep.  I'll need to convince a member of ~ubuntu-dev (me) that I should upload them.
<persia> geser: I think all the fixes are in the Games Team SVN.  I'm more than happy to take a look at it, and either get a sync, or upload it.
<geser> thanks
<mruiz> dholbach, I finished with the changes... I'm preparing the new debdiffs
<kagou> i have some problems with my rules
<kagou> i'm trying to copy bin from ./bin to destination but my rule is not good :
<kagou> 	cp bin/* $(CURDIR)/$(PACKAGE)usr/bin/
<persia> kagou: You likely want "install -m 0644 bin/* $(CURDIR)/$(PACKAGE)/usr/bin/" (note the extra '/').  You may also benefit from the use of dh_install.
<kagou> should i create dirs before ?
<dholbach> mruiz: nice - I'll be away for a call - either wait for me to read the mail or just ask here in the channel
<persia> kagou: Yes.  Either with install -d or dh_installdirs
<dholbach> mruiz: we have people here who know much more about packaging than I do
<kagou> oh ! ok, nice, thanks persia
<mruiz> hahaha
<mruiz> persia, I'm preparing a merge. if Debian version uses standards-version 3.5.9, is a problem to keep it in Ubuntu (delta will be lower) ? ... time ago someone update it in Ubuntu
<persia> mruiz: You'll get best advice from asking the channel generally.  The answer depends on why the standards version was incremented, and for what gain.  I typically find such changes of little import, but if the package had some significant change to match a new policy, and that was important, it's worth leaving it as a note.
<mruiz> but if Debian build the package with this version, I think that Hardy would not have problems
<persia> mruiz: Standards-Version: is not about building, it's about policy compliance.  Anything less than 3.7.3 is currently a bug, but most of them are such minor bugs, it's not important.  If the policy was bumped for the sake of bumping policy, it's not worth the diff.  If the policy was bumped because the package was transitioned to support a change in policy, than it's worth keeping it to indicate that that package has been transitioned.
<Mahoru`Tsunemi> hello
<Mahoru`Tsunemi> anyone can indicates me where i can find a howto to build a packages with no sources (python scripts for exemple)
<swisgard> i don't know if this covers it or not
<swisgard> but its the official ubuntu guide to packaging?
<swisgard> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide
<Mahoru`Tsunemi> i think of this howto describe a build of packages with source
<persia> Mahoru`Tsunemi: Python packages have source, they just don't compile at build-time.  The guide swisgard indicated id a good place to start, but you may also want to read http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy
<Mahoru`Tsunemi> i think i will post on an french forum, i think i will understand a little better ;)
<Mahoru`Tsunemi> (and the package i will make is only for me, automatisation of the setup of my printer or my python scripts)
 * persia wonders if anyone remembers the name of the channel that used to provide french packaging advice, and whether it is currently active
<persia> Mahoru`Tsunemi: If you're only installing a couple of scripts, you can probably get by with just using dh_install.  I tend to recommend a 1-line debian/rules based on CDBS and including debhelper for this type of package.
<Mahoru`Tsunemi> (if my memory is good, there isn't, there is a french classroom to learn creating packages(so there is school time ;) ))
<persia> Mahoru`Tsunemi: I'll trust you on that then :)  I only heard about it a couple times several months ago.
<Mahoru`Tsunemi> :)
<swisgard> ughh, the install program window won't resize vertically, and the bottom of it goes off the screen in my VM :(
<persia> swisgard: Annoyingly, you'll need to set the VM to at least 1024x768.  I think I heard something about this being targeted for hardy.
<swisgard> the resolution will only go to 640xsomething or 800x600 on the virtual ubuntu
<swisgard> you were talking about changing the resolution inside ubuntu right?
<swisgard> or is it a virtualbox setting
<persia> swisgard: I don't know virtualbox, but for many VMs, it's a configurable setting in the VM management program.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<LucidFox> Can a GPL program ship with GFDL documentation?
<swisgard> bddebian, you just reminded me of Freddy from Scooby-Doo
<persia> LucidFox: In Ubuntu, yes, as long as debian/copyright is clear.
<LucidFox> And in Debian, no?
<persia> LucidFox: I think in Debian, only for multiverse, but I've not been following that issue closely.
<bddebian> swisgard: :-)
<bddebian> Debian has multiverse now? ;-P
<persia> Err s/multiverse/non-free/
 * persia goes back to data parsing, in the hopes of sleeping soon, and with no small amount of shame
<LucidFox> It's about gtkpod - I'm pushing some usability patches upstream, and I'm trying to convince them to include help - a possible source of which is their wiki
 * bddebian hugs persia
<dfiloni> anyone can do the resync of the keys?
<persia> dfiloni: Sure.  Takes about half an hour
<dfiloni> persia: thanks :)
<dfiloni> persia: do you know why flashplugin-nonfree for gutsy is not upgraded?
<dfiloni> persia: it doesn't work
<geser> Hi bddebian
<persia> dfiloni: In progress.  Search for the bug.  Also, you'll get a better answer if you ask generally, rather than targeting a specific person (I don't know much about it, because I don't care, because I don't use the package)
<dfiloni> persia: thanks
<LucidFox> could someone work on bug #172755 for kipi-plugins? It's a simple transition rebuild, and only one package out of six remains
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 172755 in tripod "Rebuild for libgpod2 -> libgpod3 transition" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172755
<persia> LucidFox: Add a rebuild debdiff, and subscribe the sponsors if nobody grabs it.
<geser> dfiloni: IIRC there is some work in progress for an update of flashplugin-nonfree for gutsy
<persia> (where "rebuild debdiff" means "only change the changelog")
<dfiloni> geser: ok thanks
<LucidFox> as for GFDL in Debian: on #debian-mentors, I've just been told that it's allowed as long as there are no invariant sections
<geser> dfiloni: see bug #173890
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173890 in flashplugin-nonfree "flashplugin-nonfree fails to install... new version?" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173890
<dfiloni> geser: I'm seeing
<dfiloni> geser: ok, it's only curiosity, thanks :)
<bddebian> Heya geser
<persia> dfiloni: keyring updated
<dfiloni> persia: thanks
<swisgard> persia, i have gutsy updating on the VM. how do i go about putting it up to hardy?
<persia> swisgard: dist-upgrade (and see my comments above about asking specific individuals)
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<bddebian> Heya DarkSun88
<DarkSun88> Hi Barry :)
<tonyyarusso> I can't seem to install Banshee on Gutsy anymore - dependencies conflict.  Anyone familiar with that?
<AstralJava> Just tried, and none here. What conflicts with what?
<tonyyarusso> AstralJava: It seems to be a chain of things...  First, banshee depends on libmono1.0-cil (>= 1.2.4) but it is not going to be installed
<imbrandon> sounds like some non-official repo problems, seems fine here
<imbrandon> on the us mirror
<AstralJava> Same here, on a swedish mirror.
<tonyyarusso> libmono1.0-cil depends on libmono-system-web1.0-cil (>= 1.0)
<tonyyarusso> Hmm
<tonyyarusso> This is a fresh install with no non-official repos, University of Minnesota mirror
 * tonyyarusso tries the main archive
<AstralJava> I should think it works then.
<imbrandon> try enabling backports, someone may have botched something
<tonyyarusso> 'k
 * persia suggests turning on -updates before -backports: most cases of dependency issues should go to -updates rather than -backports, and -backports gets a lot of other things as well.
<tonyyarusso> persia: -updates is enabled by default
<imbrandon> persia: updates is on by default
<persia> Yes, but sometimes it doesn't get refreshed cleanly on a default install.  Never mind.
<AstralJava> Well I don't have backports enabled, and it worked without a hitch.
 * tonyyarusso is hoping to blame the mirror
<imbrandon> persia: ahh
<tonyyarusso> Easiest to fix :)
<tonyyarusso> Too bad I didn't take care of this when I had a fast internet connection
<AstralJava> It was only about 4.5MB of downloading for me.
<AstralJava> With all dependencies. I might have had some of them earlier, though.
<AstralJava> This batch included 9 packages.
<tonyyarusso> imbrandon: would you mind doing some apt-cache show and policy stuff on the US repo so I can figure out what's going on?
 * tonyyarusso is having no luck at all
<tonyyarusso> This might be why: libmono-system-web1.0-cil depends mono-jit (< 1.2.5) but 1.2.5.1-2ubuntu1 is to be installed
<AstralJava> You have -backports enabled?
<AstralJava> mono-jit:
<AstralJava>   Installed: 1.2.4-6ubuntu6.1
<tonyyarusso> Oh dear lord...you must be kidding me.
<tonyyarusso> Um, does apt just install the newest one it finds in /var/cache/apt/archives/ rather than the one actually listed in the sources.list fetch?
<AstralJava> I could, but I'm not. :)
<AstralJava> What does apt-cache policy tell you?
<tonyyarusso> apt-cache policy mono-jit: Installed 1.2.5.1-2ubuntu1, Candidate 1.2.5.1-2ubuntu1
<tonyyarusso> That's the version in Hardy.
<tonyyarusso> I have a dual-boot of Gutsy and Hardy, and share the /var between them.
<tonyyarusso> I thought apt was smarter than that....
<AstralJava> If it's a candidate, I assume it does install the latest one.
<tonyyarusso> It shouldn't be a candidate though, because that's not what the sources.list specifies.  It merely happens to have that version cached on disk.
<tonyyarusso> Well, that would explain it I guess.  :(
<tonyyarusso> It's okay though - this is a disposable installation right now, so I can just reinstall without much hair-tearing :)
<tonyyarusso> The only real reason I shared the /var was for things like apache, but I suppose I could accomplish the same thing with symlinks just as well.
<swisgard> argh, vbox updated the ubuntu installation and everything...but something messed up, because i was playing with Appearances. and now it logs in and just stays at that brown loading screen on my VM :(
<AstralJava> Hmm... isn't the dpkg database inside /var ?
<persia> AstralJava: Yes.
<tonyyarusso> AstralJava: yeah...I'm an idiot.
<persia> tonyyarusso: You might want to experiment with /srv/
<AstralJava> If you're sharing that structure, then dpkg is bound to be b0rked.
<AstralJava> ::)
<tonyyarusso> persia: fair point
<AstralJava> tonyyarusso: Not implying you are. :) Just thinking out loud here. :)
<tonyyarusso> AstralJava: Forget you implying - I'm declaring!
<AstralJava> tonyyarusso:  :D
<tonyyarusso> Maybe I should file a bug report actually - "dpkg should file database by source", or some such.
<AstralJava> I think it just comes down to dpkg being the backend, and not worrying about sources and such.
<tonyyarusso> That makes sense.
<tonyyarusso> well, class is over, so I'm out
<imbrandon> geser: yea i uploaded them to -proposed they should be building soon
<imbrandon> https://edge.launchpad.net/~imbrandon/+packages the last four "Uploaded" packages
<imbrandon> for dapper , edgy , feisty and gutsy
<broonie> tonyyarusso: apt doesn't use the contents of /var/cache/apt/archives unless they're in the Packages file.
<AstralJava> broonie: I think he realized already that having apt-get updated with hardy sources brought upon the confusion.
<LucidFox> Is DIF in effect?
<imbrandon> not for 24 more hours
<mruiz> ping TheMuso
<jeromeg> ScottK: heelo, do you know why ubuntu backporters aren't suscribed to Gutssy backports ?
<jeromeg> *gutsy
<imbrandon> jeromeg: jdong will have to fix that, hi mistake
<imbrandon> his*
<jeromeg> imbrandon: ok thank you
<jeromeg> imbrandon: you are a member of ubuntu-backporters ?
<imbrandon> yes
<imbrandon> there is only 4 of us iirc
<imbrandon> :)
<jeromeg> imbrandon: i recently submitted a *lot* of backports, all of which i tested carefully
<jeromeg> imbrandon: could you please have a look if you have some time ?
<jeromeg> it's both in feisty and gutsy
<imbrandon> jeromeg: ok, i'll get to the backport queue today sometime, i trust you attached all the relevant info , build logs and such ?
<jeromeg> imbrandon: i did not attach build logs, i was never asked to show them in the past
<jeromeg> imbrandon: but i can say it builds without error, i tested everything
<jeromeg> or i wouldn't have asked for a backport :)
<imbrandon> jeromeg: ok, normaly if one is not a MOTU they are asked to put a pbuilder log on the bug, but no worries its not required
<jeromeg> imbrandon: i'm not a motu, not yet :), but i've already helped the backport team and i've already done some (little) packaging in gutsy and hardy
<mruiz> I'm looking for a review... bug #160601
<bab> out of interest, are the chances good or bad of getting a merge through before the import freeze?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 160601 in hardware-monitor "Please merge hardware-monitor-1.4-1 (universe) from Debian unstable" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160601
<imbrandon> bab: depends on the merge
<bab> #175725, big package but trivial diff.  i maintain it in debina but i'm not a regular ubuntu person
<imbrandon> malone #175725
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 175725 in regina-normal "Please merge regina-normal (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175725
<imbrandon> bab: okies, i'll look in a few
<bab> imbrandon: many thanks
<apachelogger_> Lutin: pling pling
<Lutin> apachelogger_: pong
<joejaxx> grr :( why does everyone do that digest, volume 2, Encyclopedia Britainica 2 on the mailing list?
<apachelogger_> Lutin: you saied something about projectm?
<Lutin> apachelogger_: no, about filelight
<apachelogger_> oh, right :P
<apachelogger_> Lutin: so, what did explode? ;-)
<jeromeg> got to go
<jeromeg> bye
<Lutin> apachelogger_: nothing, I'd just like to have your input as you previously merged it. seems like a sync to me (the manpages are different, though)
<Lutin> but I assume you know it better than me :)
<apachelogger_> Lutin: hehe, that was all messy
<apachelogger_> actually I thought debian wanted to sync from us, though that never happend apparently
<apachelogger_> Lutin: anyway, I think you just need to merge the desktop file patch in
<apachelogger_> and get debian to include a patch so we can just sync for future versions
<Lutin> apachelogger_: it's a typo fix ?
<apachelogger_> Lutin: well, sort of important typo - 'Generic Name=' vs. 'GenericName='
<apachelogger_> ScottK: can you please have a look at bug #175952
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 175952 in gutsy-backports "Please backport libprojectm 1.01-2 from Hardy to Gutsy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175952
<Lutin> apachelogger_: seems that debian actually included the patch
<apachelogger_> oh
<apachelogger_> indeed
 * apachelogger_ should read more careful
<imbrandon> mruiz: looks good, i'm uploading your diff now
<apachelogger_> Lutin: so just syncing should be enough
<Lutin> apachelogger_: ok
<mruiz> thanks imbrandon :-) ... my first merge
<mruiz> how is the procedure if a package in Debian has mozilla-firefox as Build-depends? (modify it to firefox ?)
<mok0> mruiz: Isn't there a virtual package you can depend on? x-www-browser?
<mruiz> mok0, mozilla-firefox | www-browser
<mok0> mruiz: www-browser is a text-oriented browser AFAIK
<mok0> x-www-browser | www-browser would be better
<mruiz> mok0, a guy changed mozilla-firefox to firefox (it was a merge)
<mok0> mruiz: that's not a generic browser
<mok0> mruiz:  but what do I know?
<mruiz> firefox | www-browser
<mok0> mruiz: what if the user only wants konqueror?
<imbrandon> you shouldent build depend on a generic browser
<imbrandon> it probably uses the xul stuff
<mruiz> www-browser: virtual package provided by  amaya, chimera2, dillo, elinks, elinks-lite, elvis, elvis-console, epiphany-browser, epiphany-gecko, epiphany-webkit, galeon, iceape-browser, icedove, iceweasel, kazehakase, konqueror, links, links2, lynx, lynx-cur, netrik, netsurf, w3-el-e21, w3m, w3mmee, xemacs21-gnome-mule, xemacs21-gnome-mule-canna-wnn, xemacs21-gnome-nomule, xemacs21-mule, xemacs21-mule-canna-wnn, xemacs21-nomule
<mok0> mruiz: look for x-www-browser....
<mok0> imbrandon: why can't you depend on a virtual package?
<imbrandon> no no no, this is a BUILD-depend
<imbrandon> e.g. it probably uses something firefox specific
<mok0> imbrandon: whatever
<imbrandon> whatever?
<mok0> imbrandon: whatever == depends | build-depends
<Ubulette> should be firefox-dev or better, xulrunner-1.9-dev (hardy)
<kagou> i need help on using dh_install. i'm packaging from scratch a package using jam. in rules : install i chmod +x a jam script that install all binaries under a bin/ directory under the src directory (if i'm under /src when i'm building, src/bin is created and binaries are put in). i'v made a package.install with "package/bin/* /usr/bin" but this is not working
<imbrandon> mok0: there is a big diffrence
<imbrandon> e.g. konqueror dosent provide the xul stuffs
<imbrandon> but firefox does, are you CERTAIN it dosent need the xul
<mok0> imbrandon: ok
<mok0> imbrandon: but the dependency was: firefox | www-browser
<imbrandon> dep or build-dep, the first question was build-dep
<Ubulette> build-dep must be something-dev
<imbrandon> Ubulette: not in firefoxes case
<mok0> firefox-dev? :-)
<imbrandon> and not in poor packaged software
<mruiz> imbrandon, mok0 ... sorry, but it was a mistake ... firefox stuff was in Suggests
<Ubulette> if you need headers or idls to build, then you need -dev
<imbrandon> anyhow my main point was see WHY something is done, if you know why you know th options
<LaserJock> Ubulette: not always
<imbrandon> Ubulette: sure if the package is properly split out
<imbrandon> but thats not the case always
<Ubulette> if ff2 is not properly split, file a bug, mozillateam wqill fix it
<mok0> mruiz: we're off in a tagent universe
<imbrandon> Ubulette: zomg, ok it wasent for ages due to the wy upstream handled certain things, ther are exceptions to everything
<mok0> s/tagent/tangent
 * imbrandon goes to do something usefull like merges, anyhow make sure you know why something is there before changing it was the whole thing
<imbrandon> and build-dep != dep
<mok0> imbrandon: it is in suggests:
<mok0> :)
<ikonia> imbrandon: how did the push go ?
<imbrandon> mok0: rocking, same applies , know why it was there, but diffrent options are avail at this point, and really there is no need to change a sugest in ubuntu , that should be filed upstream in debians bts
<imbrandon> ikonia: its uploaded to -proposed , not built yet, keep an eye out for it
<ikonia> will do
<imbrandon> ikonia: for all supported releases
<mok0> cat imbrandon-reply > mruiz
<ikonia> imbrandon: no pressure, just been at work so didn't know if everything had gone well
<imbrandon> :)
<ikonia> imbrandon: I have a 6.06 6.10, 7.04 and 7.10 build waiting
<mruiz> thanks mok0
<imbrandon> K
<ikonia> imbrandon: the bug will get feedback quickly
<imbrandon> rockin
<mok0> mruiz: it was a good discussion
<imbrandon> ikonia: you can see the links to them in LP via my "uploaded" section on https://launchpad.net/~imbrandon/+packages to see when they build
<ikonia> imbrandon: didn't know that, thank you
<LaserJock> bah, any of you guys know how to change xorg.conf these days?
<ikonia> imbrandon: still getting to grips with launchpad over tools like bugzilla and trac
<imbrandon> see where it says "not yet built" ?
<imbrandon> beside those 4 uplaods
<imbrandon> once souyuz gets to it it will say something like "none"
<imbrandon> and you'll be able to get the debs directly from ...
<imbrandon> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/flashplugin-nonfree/9.0.115.0ubuntu0.X.XX
<imbrandon> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/flashplugin-nonfree/9.0.115.0ubuntu0.7.10
<imbrandon> like
<imbrandon> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/flashplugin-nonfree/9.0.115.0ubuntu0.6.06
<imbrandon> etc
<imbrandon> or by using -proposed
<imbrandon> as a sources.list repo
<imbrandon> ikonia: ^^
<ikonia> got the proposed repo in ;)
<ikonia> ready and waiting
<imbrandon> k
<ikonia> imbrandon: again, thanks for your prompt response, its already made a difference as I can now give accureate info and people accept it better than "I don't know"
<imbrandon> by the time it builds and such i'll likely be asleep, so i'll check the bug tomarrow for comments
<imbrandon> np :)
<imbrandon> pitti said for this we only need one "it works" for each release to migrate to -updates since its a fairly common update we;ve been doing for 2 years now ( the md5 update )
<imbrandon> just fyi
<jdong> Dear World: I will continue to disappear from the face of this planet for the remainder of this week up to Wednesday of next week pending MIT final exam season. I love you all. PS If you see Santa tell him not to use FedEx for any of my gifts.
<LaserJock> jdong: I'll tell him to use USPS
<ScottK> Hola.
<mruiz> hola ScottK
<ScottK> Heya mruiz.
<mruiz> ScottK, learning Spanish?
<ScottK> mruiz: No.  Just felt like it for some reason.
<ScottK> I was in Peru last year for a trip and picked up a few bits.
<mruiz> :-)
<mruiz> ScottK, next time you should visit Chile too :-)
<ScottK> The Good news: I got my package update sponsored in Debian.  The bad news: One day after DIF.
<ScottK> mruiz: Actually I hope to.
<ScottK> mruiz: Maybe next year.  I'm not certain.
<mruiz> ScottK, do you have time to review a merge?
<mruiz> bug #175966
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 175966 in endeavour "Please merge endeavour 2.8.4-1 (universe) from Debian (unstable)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175966
<ScottK> mruiz: No.  sorry.  I'm running ~8 hours behind on $WORK right now.
<pochu> ScottK: I don't think DIF is already in place, is it?
<mruiz> np ScottK
<ScottK> pochu: I thought so, but I'm really not sure.
 * ScottK was up for about 30 hours straight yesterdays so his sense of the calendar is a bit off at the moment.
<mruiz> ScottK, don't hesitate to contact me if you visit Chile  ;-)
<ScottK> mruiz: Will do.  Thanks.
<mruiz> anytime
<pochu> ScottK: HardyReleaseSchedule says it's tomorrow, so you have time to get it in
<pochu> I'd hope the autosyncer to be run once more time... dunno if it will happen
<ScottK> pochu: Thanks.
<pochu> yw
<TheMuso_> mruiz: pong
<mok0> ScottK: I asked for a merge of maxima this afternoon (bug 173321) but it appears themuso has already merged and uploaded by himself. What to do in this situation?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173321 in maxima "Please merge maxima_5.13.0-2 from debian" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173321
<pochu> mok0: set it to fix released, I guess
<mruiz> TheMuso, I requested a merge for endeavour (bug #175966)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 175966 in endeavour "Please merge endeavour 2.8.4-1 (universe) from Debian (unstable)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175966
<mok0> pochu: ok
<ScottK> mok0: That's what I'd do.
<mok0> ok, I'll do that then
<ScottK> mok0: I hope that's not to frustrating an experience for you.  It happens every now and then.
 * ScottK also hopes mok0 learned something in the process.
<mok0> ScottK: NP it was a good learning experience
<mok0> :)
<ScottK> ;-)
<mok0> I have another package that I can try
<mok0> I will finish xtide later tonight
<TheMuso> mruiz: If I'm listed, its because I uploaded it, I didn't do the merge.
<TheMuso> Oh sorry, thats obviously come up without me seeing it.
<TheMuso> mruiz: I'll have a look in a bit.
<ScottK> mok0: If he hasn't yet, I think Fujitsu was going to do numpy.  You might ask him if he'd be willing to let you have a stab at it first.  It ought to be a good learning experience in your area of interest.
<TheMuso> mruiz: But I would focus on outstanding merges at this point please.
<TheMuso> There are still many packages that need to be merged.
<mok0> ScottK: sure
<mruiz> TheMuso, I know... I wanted to contact the previous uploader to avoid double work
<mok0> ScottK: I don't think I can make it before the merge-freeze
<TheMuso> mruiz: Ok thats fine.
<ScottK> mok0: It's not a hard freeze, so no problem.
<TheMuso> But at this point, I think outstanding merges at least are fair gaim.
<TheMuso> anyway...
 * TheMuso -> breakfast
<ScottK> mok0: You need to have care for how numpy and scipy interact, so it's one that needs some special care.
 * ScottK touched numpy last due to not completely understanding that.
<mok0> ScottK: I've packaged both of them in RPMs previously, so I know them quite well
<ScottK> I had to clean up the mess I made.
<ScottK> mok0: Wonderful.
<ScottK> mok0: In Debian, both of them are maintained in the Debian Python Modules Team, so you might (if you are interested in the packages) also want to help there.
<ScottK> POX_: ^^^^ See, I'm recruiting again.
<mok0> ScottK: I also want to port some of the new packages I've done for Ubuntu -> Debian
<ScottK> mok0: Great.  If you want help on getting started with that, I'd be glad to help.
<mok0> ScottK: Thanks I'd like that. I want to put it off a bit, though, perhaps after New Year would be a good time
<mok0> ScottK: I feel there is still a lot I need to learn about the workflow in Ubuntu
<ScottK> mok0: OK.  Anytime.  For anything Python you've done, the Debian Python workflow is sufficiently similar to here that it's not a big jump.  Just let me know.
<mok0> ScottK: Will do!
<ScottK> That and #debian-python is Ubuntu friendly, unlike the places bddebian chooses to generally visit.
<zul> lol
<bddebian> hehe
<mok0> bddebian: so what happens, do you get flamed?
<ScottK> He does.
 * ScottK suspects masochism.
<mok0> hehe
<mok0> bddebian: bring yer buddies next time
<bddebian> mok0: That would imply that I had buddies :)
<bddebian> slangasek is there to protect me.. ;-P
<mok0> bddebian: hey, you have _us_ :-)
 * bddebian hides
<mok0> we can fill the channel with song and laughter
<slangasek> yes, I'm there to make sure no one else eats you alive before I have a chance
 * ScottK considers giving up on IRC entirely.
<ScottK> Due to thinking about #debian-devel filled with Ubuntu song and laughter.
<bddebian> hehe
<mok0> :-P
<mok0> I've gotten a bunch of weird build failures on the theseus package: dpkg-genchanges: failure: cannot read files list file: No such file or directory
<mok0> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/theseus/1.1.5-0ubuntu1
<slangasek> what does Ubuntu song sound like?  Kumbaya, with the words "Ubuntu, sabdfl" subbed in?
<mok0> slangasek: lol
<ScottK> Hmmm.   Right continent.
<ScottK> Isn't it?
<bddebian> hehe.. Ubuuuntu, my lord, Ubuuuntu
<LaserJock> are we closing merge bugs in changelog entries?
<LaserJock> I assume yes
<imbrandon> LaserJock: yea
<imbrandon> slangasek: LOL
<imbrandon> slangasek: btw congrats
<nixternal> imbrandon: dunno if you got the message out the puter(s)..can't remember :) well did you? :)
<imbrandon> nixternal: yup
<imbrandon> gotem :)
<nixternal> groovy
<imbrandon> i'll likely be grabbing one the way things look
<nixternal> ya, he has a good deal there :)
<imbrandon> yup
<nixternal> which ever one you don't get, I am going to use for the LUG
<DaveMorris> do all distros install *.pc into /usr/lib ?
<nixternal> I don't have any *.pc in foresight
<mok0> DaveMorris: /usr/lib/pkgconfig
<DaveMorris> yeah thats what I mena't
<DaveMorris> but do all dsitros do that?
<nixternal> DaveMorris: then pretty much so, because that is where they are on my foresight box, fedora box, and kubuntu box
<DaveMorris> thanks
<nixternal> heh, I only have libusb.pc in my foresight box
<mok0> DaveMorris: ... and my CentOS box
<mok0> DaveMorris: ... and Debian 4.0
 * ScottK has that on an old Xandros 3 install (Sarge derivative), so it's not new either.
<R0man> hi
<R0man> someone here who has a clue of BTG?
<pochu> what's that?
<R0man> Bittorrent Client
<R0man> http://btg.berlios.de/
 * pochu doesn't think he will have a clue if he doesn't know what it means ;)
<pochu> R0man: you will probably get more help in #ubuntu-motu-torrent
<R0man> oh, okay :D
<TheMuso> mruiz: Mind telling me why the diff is 2MB?
<mruiz> TheMuso, one moment please...
<TheMuso> mruiz: sure
<mdomsch> mok0, using an NFS directory for doing your builds?
<mok0> mdomsch: you can't
<mdomsch> right - just making sure - I got bit by that too
<mok0> mdomsch: Are you referring to the build problems above?
<mdomsch> yes
<mok0> mdomsch: those are from the buildds
<mok0> mdomsch: all archs fail but i386, but I had no probs building it on amd64
<mok0> mdomsch: also works in my gutsy ppa
<TheMuso> mruiz: How did you construct your debdiff?
<mruiz> debdiff foo bar > lala
<TheMuso> mruiz: Were both packages in the same directory?
<mruiz> TheMuso, I'll upload them again
<TheMuso> mruiz: Please, as it seems you also managed to get the new upstream changes in the debdiff somehow.
<TheMuso> WHich is why the diff is so big.
<persia> mruiz: Just to make sure, foo = $debian_version and bar is $new_candidate, right?
<mruiz> sure persia
<LaserJock> TheMuso, persia: ping?
<persia> LaserJock: Just ask
<LaserJock> persia: it seems I have a hard time unsub'ing u-u-s unless I"m a member
<ScottK> LaserJock: That's an LP feature.
<LaserJock> yes, I gathered that :-)
<persia> LaserJock: Good.  Do you want to be a member?
<LaserJock> persia: yes, I just applied ... again
 * persia wonders why LP hasn't sent email, and goes to force the issue
<LaserJock> well, I *just* did it so it might not have had time
<mruiz> TheMuso, I got a 2MB debdiff again between ubuntu versions
<TheMuso> mruiz: Hmm. Ok. Let me try and do it locally to see what I get.
<persia> LaserJock: Welcome, and thanks for helping out!
<LaserJock> persia: should I unsub u-u-s once I ack a sync request?
<LaserJock> I wouldn't think we'd want to keep that around
<TheMuso> mruiz: I am getting a diff that only changes two files, and is 4927 bytes in size.
<persia> LaserJock: workflow is documented at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sponsorship/SponsorsQueue (which says "unsubscribe before you ACK")
<mruiz> TheMuso, it's strange
<TheMuso> mruiz: Are you making a diff between the previous Ubuntu and the new merged version? If so, its better to only diff between latest Debian and merged package.
<LaserJock> persia: bah, ok, I kinda messed up the order, mostly because I wasn't in u-u-s at the time ;-)
<TheMuso> brb
<mruiz> TheMuso, I did it as well... as documentation says
<persia> LaserJock: No problems :)  We appreciate all the help that non-members give, but now that you've the golden star, you're expected to follow the order :)
<mruiz> TheMuso: "one between the Debian .dsc and your modified one and another one between the old ubuntu .dsc and your modified one" -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging
<persia> mruiz: That's just someone being extra paranoid.  Usually debian -> candidate is sufficient.
 * LaserJock pats Kmos on the back
<LaserJock> good work today
<somerville32> :)
<mruiz> persia, then it must be removed from doc
<R0man> Can someone tell me whats wrong with this http://nopaste.info/b3539847fe.html apache config? It doesnt follow Symlinks!
<Kmos> LaserJock: thx
<LaserJock> Kmos: I'm done for the day today though, you gave me a workout ;-)
<persia> mruiz: Well, there are some cases where ubuntu -> new candidate is actually more appropriate (e.g. fakesync or fakemerge).  I generally tell people to use https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing, but it's not a resolved issue.
<Kmos> LaserJock: come here tomorrow :-) hehe
<mok0> R0man: did you restart the server?
<R0man> mok0, yes ;)
<mok0> Just checking... :-) I have Options: +FollowSymLinks in one of my conf files, don't know if that plus matters
<mok0> R0man: you should also check /var/log/apache/error.log to see what's going on
<R0man> mok0 no I didnt, will have a look at it.. thanks so far ;)
<somerville32> What is the link for the u-u-s queue?
<TheMuso> mruiz: So are you still getting a huge diff?
<mruiz> TheMuso, between Ubuntu versions... Debian/candidate is small
 * TheMuso wioll be doing merges as he encounters them today. There are still too many outstanding merges.
<mruiz> TheMuso -> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10866359/endeavour_2.8.4-1ubuntu1_debian_ubuntu.debdiff
<TheMuso> mruiz: ah yeah, gotcha. Missed it in the bug.
<mruiz> ;-)
<mruiz> I did it !
<persia> somerville32: Which link?
<somerville32> persia, the one with the html tables describing the current u-u-s queue
<persia> somerville32: Process or content?
<somerville32> Process?
<persia> somerville32: I think you want either https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sponsorship/SponsorsQueue or https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-universe-sponsors/+bugs, but I can't tell which from your question.
<somerville32> I'm looking for the third-party website with the u-u-s stuff
<pochu> \sh_away: how are wesnoth security updates going? :)
<somerville32> I think it was in people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach maybe?
<LaserJock> http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/
<somerville32> bryce, Are you sponsoring catfish?
<LaserJock> I don't get that "responsible" column
<LaserJock> it looks like it's looking for subscribers to the bug
<mruiz> bye guys... a productive day: 3 candidate merges :-)
<mruiz> cya
<mok0> cu mruiz
<persia> LaserJock: For main, people tend to get assigned submissions if they don't get grabbed soon enough.  For Universe we tend to use a FIFO approach, and ignore "assignment", as sponsors should be unsubscribing when they pick up a bug.  Unfortunately, this practice means that dholbach's page is out of date whenever any sponsors are actually sponsoring.
 * ajmitch sees that keybuk is trying to stir up discussion
<TheMuso> LaserJock: WHich is why I never use Dholbach's page.
<TheMuso> ajmitch: for what?
<ajmitch> TheMuso: merging main & universe
 * ScottK finds nothing immediate to complain about in Keybuck's mail.
<TheMuso> oh...
 * ScottK needs to think about differing work flows though.
 * TheMuso checks mail
 * somerville32 checks mail
<TheMuso> I personally approach both with the same view on quality.
<TheMuso> i.e highest quality possible.
<mruiz> guys, when DIF will start?
 * Fujitsu thinks it's in about 1.5 hours.
<ScottK> mruiz: After someone (probably cjwatson) decides the autosync script has been run for the last time.
<LaserJock> wow!
<somerville32> +1 :)
<LaserJock> I'm stunned
<LaserJock> almost speechless ;-)
<ScottK> almost
 * TheMuso pulls up the mail.
<jpatrick> well prepared
<LaserJock> so... would this mean no more MOTU in the traditional sense?
<ScottK> I think work flow and governenace are the main things not covered.
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> governance is a bit sticky
<Fujitsu> Um, wow.
<ScottK> I think people should think on those topics and give some thoughtful input.
<LaserJock> gosh, how I wonder how this would get implemented in Soyuz
<somerville32> Sounds like a brilliant plan to me
<TheMuso> wow
<somerville32> virtual components via seeds
<Fujitsu> It makes sense to me, particularly now that it appears that Canonical doesn't actually `support' everything in main...
<Fujitsu> It's an interesting idea.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: yes, that's always bugged me
<ivoks> it's a very good idea
<LaserJock> that and the fact that Canonical would determine components
<somerville32> I'm a big fan of removing the dependency on Canonical - Ubuntu is an independent body
<LaserJock> somerville32: well, the same thing can be done without removing the main/Universe split
<TheMuso> I like the idea of teams having upload rights to seeded packages to an extent. This would mean for example, that ubuntustudio people could touch ubuntustudio packages only.
 * somerville32 nods.
<somerville32> Same for Xubuntu
<Fujitsu> Poor, poor Soyuz.
<LaserJock> yeah
<TheMuso> hell yeah.
<ScottK> Yes.  Solves the Xubuntu Main/Universe problem nicely.
<LaserJock> suddenly teams would become *much* more important
 * somerville32 nods.
<Fujitsu> What does he mean by `most of the other technical teams'?
<Fujitsu> Xubuntu/UbuntuStudio/etc?
<somerville32> Fujitsu, Xubuntu, edubuntu, etc.
<LaserJock> well, that'd have to be determined I guess
<Fujitsu> Edubuntu is main, and is going away, so I doubt it.
<LaserJock> no it's not!
<LaserJock> Edubuntu is not going away
 * LaserJock slaps Fujitsu with a fish
<LaserJock> ;-)
<somerville32> Please sponsor bug 175991
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 175991 in ttb "Sponsor ttb_0.9.4-0ubuntu3" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175991
<Fujitsu> Edubuntu is ceasing to exist separately. Isn't it just going to be an extra metapackage for installation on top of ubuntu-desktop?
<LaserJock> kinda
<LaserJock> it'll be the same
<LaserJock> except we produce 2 CDs right now
<LaserJock> and we're dropping the first and moving that stuff to Ubuntu
<LaserJock> but it's still Edubuntu and we'll still have .isos
<LaserJock> just dependent on Ubuntu
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<TheMuso> LaserJock: That makes sense. I wasn't quite sure what was happening either.
<somerville32> So, what is the general first impression of Scott's idea?
<LaserJock> basically we ran out of room, so for gutsy the first Edubuntu CD is just Ubuntu+Edubuntu themeing+LTSP
<TheMuso> Still digesting it. So far, good for ubuntustudio packagers.
 * ScottK thinks we need to understand governance before having any strong opinions.
<LaserJock> so if LTSP is moved to Ubuntu then we don't need the first CD anymore
<TheMuso> ScottK: I agree.
<LaserJock> ScottK: there doesn't seem to be any inherent governance issues though?
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Governance of what?
<LaserJock> I didn't really see any
<LaserJock> surely stuff needs to get worked out
<somerville32> RAOF, Can you install grab-merge for mom?
<LaserJock> but that's implementation
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: I would assume upload rights
<LaserJock> we'd go from 2 teams to many more
<LaserJock> what about the base stuff that's in all seeds?
<Fujitsu> That's a good question. I guess core-dev would have to take care of those...
<TheMuso> Yeah.
<LaserJock> would anybody in the depending teams be able to upload?
<LaserJock> so basically, TheMuso would get to upload kernels because he's in the Ubuntu Studio team
<Fujitsu> In a basic implementation, yes. But that's wrong.
<Fujitsu> Presumably one would have a basic metapackage that all derivatives depend on.
<TheMuso> LaserJock: The way I see it, is that anything not in the ubuntu/kubuntu/ubuntu-server/mobile seeds is workable by others, depending on the team they're in.
<LaserJock> so like ubuntu-{standard,minimal} would perhaps have it's own rights?
<TheMuso> SO its kinda like a  step down model. All derivs share the same base, but if th esame base is used by ubuntu/kubuntu/server/mobile etc, then they can't touch the packages.
<TheMuso> LaserJock: I'd say those would be core-dev only.
<TheMuso> I think we would have to have a way of finding out who has upload rights to a package.
<LaserJock> right, that's kinda what I'm getting at, it becomes quite a bit less clear who can upload what
<TheMuso> Thats the only drawback I can see.
<LaserJock> you know, what would kind of be cool is if Launchpad gave you a "You can upload this package" flag when you go to a +source/ page
<Fujitsu> Seeds could have a sort of priority for the permissions system. If you are a member of a seed team, you can touch packages in that seed, unless they're part of a higher-priority (ie (k|x|ed)ubuntu) seed.
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: That's a good idea.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: yeah thats what I was getting at.
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Good idea.
 * persia likes the unless part of that
<LaserJock> hmm, how would the priority system work?
<TheMuso> Only thing I am not sure I like though, is for people on a team to add a package to a seed, just so they can upload a new version, and then remove it from the seed again
<Fujitsu> One could easily have a hierarchy of seeds with different teams able to manage their specific parts of their derivatives.
<bryce> somerville32: sure, I can take a look after I finish a couple more merges
<LaserJock> TheMuso: perhaps they would have to do MIRs?
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: They won't be able to upload that package.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: But if its a universe package so to speak.
<Fujitsu> Hm, Oops, I misread.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: eg, a member of ubuntustudio adds a package to a seed and that package is in universe.
<persia> TheMuso: That's one case of abuse: another would be to add more packages than required to a seed, just because one of the team members has an interest in those packages.
<LaserJock> but!
<TheMuso> persia: Yeah. I think in that case, only designated people can work on the seeds
<LaserJock> wouldn't you already have access to those packages anyway?
<LaserJock> I mean, "universe" would be the lowest common denominator
<TheMuso> LaserJock: I'm saying people could add packages to a seed that they have write access to, just so they can work on that package.
<somerville32> TheMuso, Only core-dev has access to the seeds ATM, right?
<LaserJock> TheMuso: what I'm saying is that shouldn't get them anywhere
<persia> TheMuso: Sure, but that gets into another mess: are those people decided by the team, or by TB?
<TheMuso> somerville32: No, ubuntustudio team has access to the ubuntustudio seeds.
<persia> LaserJock: Not if they are in another team's seed.
<TheMuso> persia: Yeah i know.
<LaserJock> persia: right, that *would* be a possible problem
<TheMuso> Which reminds me.
<LaserJock> so it would be people adding packages from other people's seeds
<LaserJock> not people adding packages from "universe"
<persia> LaserJock: Let's call them "shared packages", which may not be interesting to most members of one seed's team, but the person who works on them doesn't get along with the other team.
<LaserJock> persia: well, that can happen now and is a problem for the CC/TB
<persia> LaserJock: Sure, but that's just messy.
 * persia also notes that it breaks the current recruitment & sponsorship models
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> although maybe in a not-so-bad way
 * somerville32 nods.
<somerville32> Obviously there will be logistical issues to sort out but that isn't a reason not to explore the option of merging main/universe
<LaserJock> it would tend to make the seed-teams more responsible for their members
<persia> somerville32: Sure.
<persia> LaserJock: Maybe
<somerville32> Universe and Main are becoming more and more redundant. Merging seems like a Good Idea (TM).
<mruiz> I have to go, but did it some merges... bug #160965, bug #175979, bug #160610, bug #175998, bug #175966. Can someone review them ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 160965 in fetchyahoo "Please sync fetchyahoo 2.11.2-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160965
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 175979 in gproftpd "Please merge gproftpd 8.3.2-1 (universe) from Debian (unstable)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175979
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 160610 in gtkam "Kodak camera, gtkam automatically quit." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160610
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 175998 in mailping "Please merge mailping 0.0.4-1 (universe) from Debian (unstable)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175998
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 175966 in endeavour "Please merge endeavour 2.8.4-1 (universe) from Debian (unstable)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175966
<mruiz> ups... bug #160601
<somerville32> mruiz, You might mark them as confirmed?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 160601 in hardware-monitor "Please merge hardware-monitor-1.4-1 (universe) from Debian unstable" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160601
<persia> mruiz: If they are in the sponsors queue, you don't need to repeat them here.  Thanks for helping.
<mruiz> somerville32, just as "in progress"
<TheMuso> mruiz: No not in progress, and don't assign them to yourself.
<TheMuso> as I said in the endeavour bug report.
<persia> somerville32: I'm inclined to agree with that, but think attention should be paid to support upload permissions and to help with sponsoring.  Making it harder to get sponsored just isn't good in my book.
<Fujitsu> persia: How would it make it harder?
<mruiz> TheMuso, Merge documentation says it... it must be reviewed
<persia> mruiz: Please read the notes about preparing a candidate for sponsorship in https://wiki,ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
<somerville32> mruiz, "Attach these debdiffs to the bug report, un-assign yourself, set the status to "confirmed" and subscribe (not assign!) the relative [WWW] sponsor (ubuntu-universe-sponsors for packages in universe, ubuntu-main-sponsors for packages in main)."
<persia> Fujitsu: Currently, the U-U-S stuff gets hit mostly FIFO, by the few people who make regular passes.  Instead, it'd need to get a hit for specific teams.
<persia> (I'm thinking longer-term, with a small "universe" of unmaintained packages)
<Fujitsu> persia: The way I read it, ubuntu-dev would retain upload rights over most derivatives.
<persia> Fujitsu: "...ubuntu-dev, which would have permission to upload to anything not
<persia> seeded..."
<somerville32> I guess that would encourage people to get involved with Xubuntu <G>
<Fujitsu> `would be members of most of the other technical teams'
<persia> Hmm..  Confusing there, but I can see that.  I'm less worried in that case.
<LaserJock> basically, it would be similar to what's done now
<LaserJock> teams could allow ubuntu-dev to be a member
<mruiz> bye guys!
<LaserJock> thereby allowing for sponsorship, etc. as now
 * somerville32 hugs ubuntu
<LaserJock> this is similar to Fedora Core + Fedora Extras -> Fedora ?
 * Fujitsu sees an issue with a restricted/multiverse merge.
<Fujitsu> multiverse is a whole lot more evil than restricted.
<TheMuso> Ok. Is the sponsors queue being attended to by more than one person? If so, I'll start grabbing packages that are outstanding to be merged. Otherwise, the sponsors queue is my next target.
<LaserJock> yeah
<somerville32> The queue is pretty big ATM
<TheMuso> Yeah well, the queue it is.
<somerville32> Please sponsor bug 176004 :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 176004 in xfce4-terminal "merge xfce4-terminal 0.2.8-2ubuntu1 (main) from debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/176004
<TheMuso> somerville32: If its in the queue, it will be gotten to.
<somerville32> I subscribe to the idea but I can't imagine it hurts to report it once here like one does when they upload it to REVU
<persia> somerville32: The difference being that sponsors will ignore you when you ask for a bug that is in the queue to be sponsored, whereas reviewers may well check REVU.
<ScottK> persia: Good mail.
<persia> ScottK: I would have been better without points 1 & 3, which Keybuk recently explained were based on misinterpretation on #ubuntu-devel
<persia> s/I/It/
<ScottK> Well that just means you've helped clarify it for others that were confused.
 * ScottK goes to dinner.
 * TheMuso would like opinions on bug 92939 as its a new upstream, with a .tar.bz2. I'm enclined to say lets wait for Debian to get it first, due to orig tar md5sum issues.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 92939 in libowfat "[can-not-install] file overwrite error" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/92939
<persia> TheMuso: I'd agree with that, but it's worth pinging the Contributor to see if there is already discussions with Debian: if it's a couple months, better to get it now.  Similarly, if there's an agreement, and Debian will use this orig.tar.gz, we're all set.
<TheMuso> perRight.
<TheMuso> gah
<blueyed> Are libtotem-plparser1-dbg and epiphany-browser-dbg installable on amd64 in Hardy?
<LaserJock> has anybody tried git-cvs?
<LaserJock> TheMuso: you still working on u-u-s?
<TheMuso> LaserJock: yep
<TheMuso> Theres a lot there
<LaserJock> yeah, it's good to see
<LaserJock> perhaps just drop a note in channel when you're working on a package
<LaserJock> I might try a few and I don't want to clash
<somerville32> I subscribed u-u-s to a merge in main by mistake, bug #176004
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 176004 in xfce4-terminal "merge xfce4-terminal 0.2.8-2ubuntu1 (main) from debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/176004
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Ok, looking at bug 72208
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 72208 in ncpfs "No manual pages for ncplogin and ncplogout in package" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/72208
<LaserJock> somerville32: fixed
<LaserJock> TheMuso: I'm looking at bug 175725
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 175725 in regina-normal "Please merge regina-normal (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175725
<TheMuso> ok
#ubuntu-motu 2007-12-13
<TheMuso> Looking at bug 157129
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 157129 in blobwars "Please merge blobwars 1.07-2 from Debian unstable" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/157129
<ScottK> IIRC (re libowfat) at least in Debian you can use .tar.bz2.
<ScottK> It's a recent dpkg? change
<TheMuso> Bout bloody time IMO.
<ScottK> Or maybe standards version 3.7.3.
<ScottK> IIRC it turned up in the lintian diff when I was reviewing it for syncing.
<TheMuso> Ah right.
 * somerville32 cries as his package doesn't compile.
<ScottK> Which is also conveniently available in gutsy-backports for those interested in that
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> ugh
<ScottK> somerville32: Step away from the keyboard to avoid risk of electrical shock.
<somerville32> Can someone take a look at this?
<somerville32> http://pastebin.com/m1ba00dad
<TheMuso> still trying to connect
<TheMuso> Hrm. I'd have to look at the code to work that one out.
<TheMuso> somerville32: Could you put your .dsc/.diff.gz up somewhere and give me a link to the tarball?
<TheMuso> somerville32: And I'll see what I can work out.
<somerville32> I'll put it on revu
<mok0> somerville32: Take a look at libapm.h, it seems like it includes both <sys/types.h> and <linux/types.h>
<somerville32> mok0, okay
<mok0> somerville32: if that's the case, try removing the latter
<soren> somerville32: __KERNEL_STRICT_NAMES might be of interest...
<soren> somerville32: Google will explain. I haven't the time. Sorry.
<mok0> somerville32: Also, in your cc statement (7) it looks like the CFLAGS are present multiple times
<mok0> somerville32: e.
<mok0> somerville32: f.ex you have -DPNG_NO_MMX_CODE three times
<LaserJock> does anybody here have any interest in helping package Ubuntu artwork?
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Yeah whats up?
<somerville32> "#include <linux/apm_bios.h>
<somerville32> #include <sys/types.h>"
<somerville32> Those are the only two include statements in libapm.h
<mok0> somerville32: Hmm
<soren> somerville32: linux/apm_bios.h is likely including linux/types.h
<LaserJock> TheMuso: basically, the art team is looking for somebody to handle the packaging of the artwork
 * soren idly points at __KERNEL_STRICT_NAMES again..
<LaserJock> TheMuso: currently they have nobody that's got packaging experience
<mok0> somerville32: just for fun, see what happens if you comment out the <sys/types.h> line
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Right.
<LaserJock> TheMuso: interested?
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Well I'm actually looking at a better way to do the UbuntuStudio art packaging, so if and when I come up with something, I could help out with the ubuntu artwork packag.
<TheMuso> package.
<LaserJock> TheMuso: I think that would be stellar
<_MMA_> LaserJock: Ive been talking to kwwii about this as well.
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> I just thought I'd ask as I told him I would see
<_MMA_> Oh yeah. You were there. :) Well I thought you were gonna put a "wider call" out. Actually I think Ken did.
 * _MMA_ looks.
<LaserJock> well, I thought I'd see here first before announcing something on ubuntu-devel ;-)
<LaserJock> it'd be nice to get somebody who is a core-dev or wants to be one
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Yeah well I think the biggest issue with the artwork currently, is the way its built. I think for something as simple as art, this can be simplified.
<somerville32> mok0, more errors
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Your rcbugs page doesn't seem to have been updated in almost a month.
<somerville32> sys and linux still seem to be included somewhere
<somerville32> I've uploaded it to revu
<mok0> somerville32: hmm, something is seriously wrong with the source
<mok0> somerville32: it was a wild shot :-)
<soren> somerville32: Ask google about __KERNEL_STRICT_NAMES  and you'll likely be much happier.
<somerville32> Ok
<somerville32> I'll try that
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: oh well
<mok0> somerville32: it says to include features.h before linux/types.h
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: It would be nice if you could update it, so we can fix more bugs.
<mok0> somerville32: features.h should define __KERNEL_STRICT_NAMES
<somerville32> mok0, I saw.
<somerville32> :)
<mok0> hehe
<LaserJock> can I possibly pick a package to work on that *doesn't* take at least 1 hr to build? >:/
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: No.
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: I'll consider it, if I can rsync to qa.uw.c properly
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Why can't you rsync to there?
<LaserJock> ok, any git-cvs or git-svn users here?
<ajmitch> because it wanted to use my regular ssh key on LP
<Fujitsu> Oh, right.
<Fujitsu> I think imbrandon was working on that.
<Fujitsu> Not sure what came of it.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: have you had a look at axiom by chance?
<ajmitch> yes, and I was waiting on that
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: I heard you were.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: well, I tried
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: i was waiting on your input , i got stuck, thats why i pointed you to my copy ;)
<LaserJock> looking at the changelog it looks to be a sync
<Fujitsu> Should be syncable, I think.
<Amaranth> LaserJock: I use git-svn, why?
 * Fujitsu checks.
<LaserJock> but 4 people tried to build it and it gave 3 different errors
<Fujitsu> DId you point me at your copy?
<Fujitsu> Wow.
<imbrandon> yea, one sec i'll do it again
<imbrandon> hehe
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: I have absolutely *no* clue why it would fail, for me it fails during a cp
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Erm, oops, thought it was LaserJock saying he'd pointed me at his copy.
<LaserJock> Amaranth: do you commit using it?
<Amaranth> LaserJock: I have (once)
<LaserJock> hmm, well that's not all that much
<LaserJock> some guys were using it on an upstream project
<LaserJock> and it was doing funky things
<somerville32> mok0, Ok, got rid of the redefinition errors
<LaserJock> like reviving removed directories :-)
<Amaranth> I mostly use it for tracking things
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: my copy of what?
<somerville32> How can I see if something built successfully in debian?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: I presumed axiom, but it was in fact imbrandon saying it.
<LaserJock> oh man, we're so messed up
<LaserJock> maybe I need more sleep
<ScottK> Which must be while I feel at home here.
<LaserJock> ScottK: lol, so true ;-)
<ScottK> ;-)
<somerville32> mok0, <<<
<imbrandon> ajmitch: Fujitsu is looking at the code i started now, hopefully he can finish the python-foo on it and have it working soon-ish/tonight/today
<ScottK> Oohh.
 * ScottK reads the new devscripts changelog.
<ScottK> debdiff: Support tarball in tarball (Closes: #439667).
<LaserJock> hmm, so I wonder when we could get this "merge Universe/Main" thing done, Hardy+1?
<imbrandon> LaserJock: huh ?
<somerville32> We should do it for Hardy
<LaserJock> seems like it'd take quite some Launchpad work
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: See the revolutionary email to ubuntu-devel.
<somerville32> lol
<Fujitsu> somerville32: It's not going to happen.
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Yeah, just a bit.
<ajmitch> imbrandon: k, I won't be looking at anything for awhile though
 * imbrandon looks, subject ?
<imbrandon> ajmitch: kk
<LaserJock> somerville32: I don't know dude, it'll take a lot of soyuz work and governance issue resolution
<LaserJock> imbrandon: Keybuk proposed to merge Universe and Main
<LaserJock> imbrandon: and to manager permissions via seeds
<LaserJock> basically
<imbrandon> kick ass, i sugested it a few months ago, no one listened , leaste someone will listen to him maybe
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> if a pacakges is seeded core-dev does it, if not -dev does
<ScottK> imbrandon: Maybe someone did listen.
<LaserJock> it's would be sooo messy though
<LaserJock> can you imagine the LP team web that'll create
<pwnguin> apparently MT is gpl'd or something
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: I don't see it as particularly messy.
<ScottK> LaserJock: And we can't have messy because it's all so neat and clean now?
<Fujitsu> Just ubuntu-dev will be a member of a few teams.
<LaserJock> ScottK: no, but it'll take some work
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: starts out as a few
<LaserJock> but people will have to be careful who they let into their team
<LaserJock> will the TB have to approve all uploaders?
<imbrandon> LaserJock: they should be now
<LaserJock> imbrandon: why?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: The emails says that will be up to the seed-managing teams, not the TB.
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> I'm just saying as we say get 30, 40, ... seed teams
<LaserJock> this could be a bit interesting
<imbrandon> the thing about overlap sucks
<ScottK> I think Keybucks followup about how to deal with it makes sense.
<TheMuso> I'll be interested to read other Canonical dev thoughts, such as from people like Colin and pitti.
<mok0> somerville32: cool, did it finish?
<somerville32> mok0, Look at private query
<ScottK> So then you'd be able to be, say, a Kubuntu developer for KDE stuff even if you weren't even a MOTU yet.  It allows for a new class of specialist that I think would be useful.
<ScottK> See you later.  Off to go Christmas shopping.  Yeah!!!
<LaserJock> ScottK: agreed, and cya
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Fun...
 * TheMuso has already done his.
<Fujitsu> Keybuk's followup cleared most things up, which is good.
<LaserJock> I think it also kinda goes to this issue that was brought up by Till
<_MMA_> ScottK: Arundel Mills FTW! ;)
<LaserJock> it's sometimes very weird to have people go for MOTU who've never worked in Universe and never plan to
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Right.
<LaserJock> while, as Keybuck said, not locking into a Debian-style maintainership
<LaserJock> man, I can just hear cprov groaning
<Fujitsu> Yep.
<LaserJock> and as _MMA_ just mentioned to me, what happens to all the bugmail?
<Fujitsu> It loses the component information and gets seed information instead.
<Fujitsu> Hm, both would need to exist.
<LaserJock> say ~motu is a part of a team that wants to get all it's bugmail
<Fujitsu> But is that what you meant?
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<Fujitsu> I see.
<LaserJock> then ~motu will also get the bugmail
<Fujitsu> That requires LP to drop its one-size-fits-all idea.
<LaserJock> *gasp*
<Fujitsu> And provide *gasp* user-configurable settings.
<Fujitsu> Damn, you beat me to the gasp.
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> well, I guess I better get home so I can get some work done ;-)
<ScottK> _MMA_: If you can find a parking place.
<_MMA_> :D
 * somerville32 goes to merhe electricsheep
<TheMuso> somerville32: How did you go with that code compilation problem?
<somerville32> TheMuso, Still working on it. Got rid of issue #1
<somerville32> now working on issue #2
<TheMuso> Ah right.
<TheMuso> slangasek: Where does the universe sponsors queue stand WRT DIF and processing requested merges/syncs? Are they still ok to go through even if DIF comes into effect?
<Fujitsu> Isn't DIF more of an advisory rather than actual freeze?
<TheMuso> Yeah, but still.
<LaserJock> it's when we don't get auto-sync
<LaserJock> and if somebody bothered to do the work I don't think we should turn them down
<LaserJock> IMO
<TheMuso> Another one down.
<slangasek> TheMuso: well, the discussion on ubuntu-motu@ covers everything IMHO
<TheMuso> ok
<StevenK> Which is you can continue to do merges if you can justify them?
<DaSkreech> Is there some reason that seamonkey isn't in the repos?
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Did you take care of bug 175725?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 175725 in regina-normal "Please merge regina-normal (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175725
<TheMuso> I still see it on the sponsors queue list.
<LaserJock> TheMuso: still waiting for it to build
<somerville32> Ummm...
<somerville32> I have a problem :/
<LaserJock> TheMuso: I know how to pick'em
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Oh ok. In the future, could you please unsubscribe uus from the bugg, so that an indication is given as to whether someone is working on it?
<LaserJock> ahh
<LaserJock> I wondered if I should assign it to myself or something
 * LaserJock goes to read the sponsoring wiki page again
<Ubulette> I'm doing a native package, arch=all, using cdbs. It FTBFS at the end with "dpkg-genchanges: failure: cannot read files list file"? indeed, no debian/files are created. Any hint ?
<LaserJock> somerville32: we know you have problems, but what's up? ;-)
<somerville32> LaserJock, xfce4-battery-plugin doesn't compile with 2.6.24 linux
<zul> evening
<zul> surprise surprise
<LaserJock> hi zul
<somerville32> What does the S in FTBS mean?
<StevenK> Source
<TheMuso> somerville32: FTBS or FTBFS?
<StevenK> Fails To Build From Source
<somerville32> Oh, ok
<persia> LaserJock: Both: unsubscribe & assign (unless it's a quick comment/rework, in which case unsubscribe is usually sufficient)
<LaserJock> man, things have changed so much ...
<persia> LaserJock: That's not changed since it was presented at a MOTU Meeting in May :)
<LaserJock> well, I know
<LaserJock> but umm... it's been a while
<persia> he
<persia> h
 * txwikinger gets the feeling MOTUs never sleep ;)
<LaserJock> sleep?
<txwikinger> what is that?
<txwikinger> :D
<TheMuso> More like, there is always a MOTU on hand, 24 hours a day.
<persia> txwikinger: As a group, we don't.  Individually, occasionally.
<txwikinger> persia: hehe
<StevenK> Sleep is for the week
<txwikinger> weekor weak?
 * persia likes "week" :)
 * StevenK too :-)
 * TheMuso likes sleep.
<TheMuso> It ensures I don't make packaging mistakes.
<somerville32> I've had packages in the queue for like, over 24 hours now :P
<somerville32> boo! :P
<TheMuso> persia: Good follow up mail.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<DaSkreech> Hi bddebian
<somerville32> Heya bddebian :)
<bddebian> Heya DaSkreech, somerville32
<DaSkreech> has anyone tried to package seamonkey?
<LaserJock> DaSkreech: I think there's something up with that
<LaserJock> you might as the Mozilla Team
<DaSkreech> LaserJock: Something technical or legal?
<LaserJock> most likely technical
<DaSkreech> cause it occurs to me that it's been a long time since Ubuntu came out and there is still no Seamonkeys :(
<imbrandon> ajmitch: fyi, you can add custom ssh keys to /srv/ssh-keys/<user>.key now too whenever your ready, the new system is in place
<persia> DaSkreech: seamonkey is in hardy: request a backport if you can compile it on gutsy (but I think you may have trouble)
<DaSkreech> persia: hooray! More reasons to jump to hardy! :)
<dmb> hello
<persia> DaSkreech: There's also lots of reasons not to jump.
 * imbrandon jumped a few days ago, lots of "small" things, hehe
<DaSkreech> persia: don't tell me about it :) still waiting for the not to jump reasons to come low enough for me to jump over them!
 * ajmitch will probably upgrade to hardy about 2 months after release
<mok0> somerville32: if you declare typedef unsigned short  apm_event_t;
<mok0> in libapm.h it compiles in hardy.
<mok0> but I doubt that it works
<somerville32> mok0, It does.
<LaserJock> I'll upgrade at RC most likely
<somerville32> mok0, That change is not intentionally I don't think
 * TheMuso is running hardy on non-critical boxes.
<somerville32> mok0, Upstream (ie. Linux) has been notified
<mok0> somerville32: cool
<mok0> somerville32: you mean the panel app works?
<somerville32> mok0, we'll find out in a second :P
<somerville32> Ooo...
 * somerville32 gets an idea.
<somerville32> mok0, I'm going to apply the the patch to the kernel so that I have it on my upload list :P
<mok0> :-)
<mok0> another bug bites the dust
<mok0> TheMuso: did you do a fresh hardy install?
<TheMuso> mok0: On the non-critical boxes, yes.
<mok0> I wanna upgrade a box soon
 * mok0 is going to bed 
<mok0> g'night all
<bddebian> Gnight mok0
<LaserJock> wow, that regina-normal build to 90 minutes
<TheMuso> ouch
<LaserJock> yeah, spent the first 90 verifying that our current package doesn't work
<LaserJock> then another 90 building with the fix
<bddebian> heh
<Ubulette> persia, you told me earlier that 'Uploaders' has no meaning in ubuntu and should be dropped, yet, i have to add it in a new (native) package i'm doing, in order to stop lintian from thinking i'm attempting an invalid NMU
<TheMuso> haha
<LaserJock> Ubulette: what?
<LaserJock> Ubulette: on what release do you get that?
<Ubulette> LaserJock, a new package i'm preparing
<LaserJock> Ubulette: yeah, but I took care of NMU in lintian quite some time ago
<bddebian> Ubulette: Did you set the maintainer to Ubuntu MOTU?
<LaserJock> Ubulette: are you using Ubuntu versioning?
<Ubulette> 0.1 (native)
<persia> Ubulette: set an Ubuntu package version, and an Ubuntu maintainer, and it will go away.  Anyway, why native?
<bddebian> Oh, LaserJock "fixed" it..?? ;-P
<Ubulette> mozillateam as maintainer
<LaserJock> Ubulette: yeah, 0.1 is not a valid version
<Ubulette> native because i'm upstream
<persia> LaserJock: Yes it is, just not an Ubuntu version.
<persia> Ubulette: So? package it as upstream, and make a distro package.
<LaserJock> persia: I don't think it is is it?
<LaserJock> oh wait, it's hative
<persia> LaserJock: Yep.
<LaserJock> *native
<LaserJock> for non-native it wouldn't be valid I don't think
<persia> LaserJock: Right.
<bddebian> Frick I still can't build half my games packages because of this stupid sdl bug
<Ubulette> with uploaders matching changelogs, lintian and linda are both happy, even with version 0.1
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> because it thinks it's a Debian package
<persia> Ubulette: Yes, but that's because nobody has bothered to change lintian and linda to ignore Uploaders.  It's a very minor bug in those packages.
<LaserJock> should it ignore Uploaders?
<persia> (err, ignore "Uploaders" for Ubuntu-versioning, that is)
<persia> LaserJock: For Ubuntu, yes.  For Debian, certainly not.
<LaserJock> persia: but it's not ubuntu versioned?
<persia> LaserJock: That would be a bug for a new package in Ubuntu, no?
<Ubulette> i wanted to do a native ubuntu only package
<LaserJock> but he's not got Ubuntu versioning
<LaserJock> Ubulette: you *don't* want to do a native package
<Ubulette> why ?
<LaserJock> because native packages are for packages that are not useful outside the distro
<persia> Ubulette: I am an opponent of native packages.  Anyway, even if you did one, it should be ubuntu-versioned, or you'll need to preemptively blacklist.
<Ubulette> LaserJock, that's the case
<LaserJock> Ubulette: what is the package?
<persia> Ubulette: Describe the package.
<Ubulette> no use at all outside the mozillateam.
<Ubulette> it's a kind of cdbs-like package to create all the proper tarballs for mozilla packages
<Ubulette> doing embedded or not, nobinonly clean-up stuff, and more
<Ubulette> so it will be a build-dep
<Ubulette> that's why i wanted a native package
<persia> hrm.  I see the point, and yes, that type of package should be native.  Any chance it would be useful to mozilla maintainers in Debian?
<persia> s/should/could/
<Ubulette> i doubt it. the branding thing
<LaserJock> yeah, but that's just a patch to your package
<Ubulette> but it's highly customizable so who knows
<persia> Ubulette: It's the "who knows" that makes me extra unsure.
 * somerville32 hugs bryce 
 * persia grumbles at the Mozilla Foundation for forcing code duplication in multiple tarballs due to annoying attitudes about branding
<somerville32> bryce, It has been 15 minutes and I don't see the upload
 * TheMuso should tackle the festival merge.
<Ubulette> persia, providing debian uses git, dpatch, standard dh_ stuff, does unbranding and remove all non free files, while ubuntu uses bzr, quilt, cdbs, keeps the original branding and only remove binaries, it's a loooong way to resync
<bryce> somerville32: hmm, well I've not gotten a reject yet, so maybe things are just slow?
<LaserJock> dang, it's really been too long since I've done real packaging work
 * somerville32 nods.
<persia> Ubulette: Sure, I'm just not sure about whether your add-on package would be useful there (as I have no idea what it does)
<LaserJock> I keep forgetting that Launchpad closes bugs these days :(
<LaserJock> Ubulette: to be honest, it seems more like a script you'd keep somewhere rather than something you'd package
<Ubulette> persia, the idea is to use if for firefox, xulrunner, thunderbird, sunbird, seamonkey, and all their mozilla friends
<Ubulette> we have too many copies of the clean up script, too many rules diverging, it's a pain in the *s to maintain and to review for everyone
<persia> Ubulette: Understood, but that's a description of why the package exists, not what it does, and so doesn't provide any indication of whether non-Ubuntu native versioning is acceptable.
<Ubulette> let me past you the core of the stuff
<persia> As another workflow alternative, you could keep common scripts in a branch, and pull the branch at packaging time, with an include statement in debian/rules.
 * persia suggests a pastebin
<Ubulette> http://paste.ubuntu.com/2682/
<persia> Ubulette: Is that essentially the entirety of it: a makefile snippet?
<Ubulette> the core ony, a dozen of files, makefiles + patches for the multi-stages cvs fetch
<Ubulette> anly
<persia> Ubulette: That seems awfully light for a package.  Have you asked about including it as a default CDBS extension?
<LaserJock> persia: I agree
<Ubulette> it has no relation to cdbs
<Ubulette> it's just cdbs-like
<persia> Ubulette: Except that it serves much the same type of purpose: a set of things that get included in debian/rules to make packaging easier.
<persia> Further, if it's only 12 files, it's not that big, and so it may be less archive space / bandwidth to just push it there.
<persia> Of course, if the answer is no, then it makes sense to go for a separate package (ubuntu-mozilla-dev or something) that might include this and more as required (and yes, non-Ubuntu native versioning would be acceptable for such a package)
<Ubulette> well, forget it, i'm tired. the package is ready, asac welcomed the idea (and we've been using my previous version for 6 months inside the team). I'll hand it to him and he'll do whatever he want, drop, merge, keep..
<Ubulette> it's 4am here, sorry to be rude :(
<persia> Ubulette: Sleep on it, but come back: the code is good, but why the separate package rather than just CDBS integration.  Have a good night.
<LaserJock> Ubulette: in any case you can ignore NMU warnings in Ubuntu
<persia> LaserJock: Well, that's dangerous blanket advice: in many cases it indicates that the package isn't versioned correctly (although it's not the case for this package)
<LaserJock> well yeah
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> ugh damn orca
<persia> Er?  How does orca drop a /?
<superm1> TheMuso, can you map that key that orca uses, 'c' to a different one?  Perhaps a period would be less conspicuous, and easier to brush off as coming in to say hi
<superm1> :)
<Ubulette> now i'm all nervous, not good for sleep
<TheMuso> persia: By locking the modifier key used for keyboard commands. :)
<persia> TheMuso: Ah.  I see.  Annoying that.
<TheMuso> yeah
<persia> Ubulette: Nervous?  Why?  Relax: you've created a good thing, that should be in the archive.  You've packaged it, and if the NMU error is your only automated check report, you've packaged it well.  We're recommending it be further integrated with CDBS, but that's something you can look at tomorrow.
 * TheMuso kicks GNOME mag.
<LaserJock> if all goes well, this will be my most productive package day in a couple of releases
<LaserJock> :-)
<TheMuso> LaserJock: More sponsoring?
<LaserJock> well, I did 3 sponsors
<LaserJock> and I'm gonna have at least 2 uploads of my own
<TheMuso> Right.
<TheMuso> I'm taking a break from the sponsors queue myself as well, as there are merges I want done.
<LaserJock> but then I gotta get some other work done :(
<TheMuso> Yay! Finally a new festival into the archive.
<TheMuso> persia: Are you likely to get to freqtweak any time soon?
<persia> TheMuso: No real point.  I might get to it, but Debian's tarball is ugly, so I'd be doing a fakemerge at best.
<persia> TheMuso: Just for context: both represent VCS pulls from dead upstream.
<TheMuso> persia: Ok.
<TheMuso> I won't worry then.
<LaserJock> ok, any mozilla gurus around?
<LaserJock> I've got a debian package that build-deps on libxul-dev
<LaserJock> is that ok for Ubuntu?
<persia> LaserJock: Provided by xulrunner_1.8.1.11-1ubuntu1, but you might want to test it.
<LaserJock> persia: right, I'm wondering if that build dep is ok for a Dep on firefox
<LaserJock> I've used it in my PPA and nobody has complained
<persia> LaserJock: Ah.  That'd be different then.  Most packages seem to depend on firefox-dev, but I don't know.
<persia> There's the man who would :)
<LaserJock> I just wondered if there was some policy/guidance for how we're dealing with it
 * ScottK butchers some more SQL.
<Fujitsu> Watch out. SQL bites back.
<bddebian> delete from ...
<ScottK> bddebian: Well the funny thing is the admin was in a hurry and I think I have the permissions to do that.
<Fujitsu> Heh.
<bddebian> Heh, just drop any table with the name sys in it ;-P
<LaserJock> shesh, keescook has screwed up my fonts ;-)
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Tut tut. What do we say about running untrusted code from the 'net?
<StevenK> Fujitsu: If you do it, you get what you deserve?
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Something like that.
<LaserJock> I just wonder why my gnome-terminal looks completely different from his
<StevenK> Because he is Kees, and therefore rocks. Simple.
<LaserJock> I guess so
 * Fujitsu intercepted your HTTP request and modified the content on the way.
<StevenK> Hah
<LaserJock> ahhhh
 * Fujitsu is god of the Internets, you see.
<StevenK> I challenge your godliness
 * Fujitsu is challenged.
<StevenK> We knew that
<Fujitsu> Hah.
 * Fujitsu applauds Soyuz for generating very readable pages:
<Fujitsu> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+queue?queue_state=3&queue_text=&start=40
<ScottK> We all know who the god of this channel is, anyway.
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Going by the wiki, I hope?
<bddebian> ScottK: slangasek?
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Of course.
<ScottK> Of course slangasek is new here and he may not know. Someone should show him.
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Thank bddebian!
<StevenK> Oh, drat!
<StevenK> IOError: [Errno 28] No space left on device
<StevenK> close failed: [Errno 28] No space left on device
<Fujitsu> Hah.
<bddebian> Gah, hasn't that frickin' page died yet?
<ScottK> Obviously he hasn't been paying enough attention to his spam.  I get mail warning me I need a bigger device all the time.
<bddebian> I haven't even done shit for Hardy this cycle :-(
<bddebian> ScottK: rofl
 * StevenK kicks ScottK in his device
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Hahahaha,.
 * StevenK will run the script from his 750Gb RAID array, then
<TheMuso> haha
<TheMuso> LaserJock: You acked a sync of cgoban without setting to confirmed. Doing now.
<LaserJock> ah ..
<Fujitsu> slangasek: Can you please capitalise your first and last characters, just for consistency?
<Fujitsu> ScottK, StevenK, StevelangaseK, StevenHarperUK...
 * persia argues that one of those fails to match S[a-z]*K
 * Fujitsu thought he made a similar point a week ago, but disregards it now anyway.
 * persia was indeed attempting to steal Fujitsu's previous point
<persia> Anyway, SlangaseK would be much easier to type reliably.
<Fujitsu> True.
<StevenK> How about slangasek changes his nick to SteveK to just confuse everyone even more
<StevenK> Er, SteveL
<Fujitsu> Heh.
<StevenK> Damn QWERTY keyboard
 * persia suggests a chording keyboard for reduced obviousness of typos
<Fujitsu> StevenK: What do you normally use?
<StevenK> QWERTY
<StevenK> I'd rather blame the keyboard than my fingers. :-P
<Fujitsu> Of course.
<bddebian> GNight folks
<slangasek> ScottK: wait, if there are gods here, shouldn't sabdfl be /divinely/ appointed?
<ScottK> slangasek: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BddebianIsAGod
<slangasek> oh, why have I seen this page before
 * Fujitsu notes there are recent additions.
<Fujitsu> slangasek: You have seen it?
<slangasek> yes
<LaserJock> it's a universal truth
<warp10> Hi all!
<kagou> Good morning
<LaserJock> darn it, some days I have CLI
<dholbach> good morning
<LaserJock> s/have/hate/
<LaserJock> hi dholbach
<dholbach> heya LaserJock
<LaserJock> I just rm * 'd my code directory
<dholbach> ARGH
<dholbach> LaserJock: do you have it in a VCS somewhere?
<LaserJock> I was about to clean it up to back it up
<LaserJock> dholbach: no, that's what I was getting ready to do
<LaserJock> but I have an older copy on my school machine
<dholbach> damn :-/
<LaserJock> I'll just lose what I've been working on this week
<LaserJock> and of course I have to meet with my advisor tomorrow
<LaserJock> so I have to rewrite it and get the data fitted before then
<DarkMageZ> apachelogger__, i can now replicate your white screen issue with libvisual-projectm. it's your graphics setup.
<POX_> ScottK: great (about recruiting :)
<dholbach> ScottK: did you manage to sleep up until now?
<siretart> Riddell: I've just uploaded a new xine-lib which should avoid dragging half of gnome into kubuntu
<siretart> (well, in fact, yesterday already)
<Riddell> siretart: great, thanks
<siretart> sorry for the delay
<siretart> I actually have dropped the jack plugin from debian as well, and wanted to request a sync. however, I cannot upload to debian right now because of directfb woes...
 * LaserJock discovers git branches
<imbrandon> siretart: is there a reason bzr-svn is versioned so tightly arround 0.92 - 0.93 ? ( i'm wanting ti for 1.0~ and wondering if there was a reason not to just rebuild it )
 * LaserJock wonders what imbrandon is doing still up
<imbrandon> just woke up
<siretart> imbrandon: better ask jelmer. he is using pretty experimental features from bzr for bzr-svn.
<imbrandon> smokin a cig, and likely to go back to bed a few hours :)
<LaserJock> imbrandon: you have the weirdest schedule
<imbrandon> siretart: ahh ok
 * persia doesn't think what imbrandon does matches the definition of "schedule"
<imbrandon> lol yea
<imbrandon> me either
<LaserJock> well, my brother-in-law has a very tight schedule for work that's really weird
<persia> LaserJock: One of those 12-on 16-off type things?
<LaserJock> he does rotating shifts so he does 1 week of mornings, 1 week of evenings, 1 week of nights, and then 1 week off
<LaserJock> and then Christmas vacation is rotated too on a 7-year cycle
<persia> That's not bad, really.
<LaserJock> not horrible, but annoying when you're trying to schedule stuff with him
<imbrandon> LaserJock: speaking of what are YOU still up for, your close to my physical timezone ( close enough to sleep arround the same time if we were 9 to 5 people )
<imbrandon> hehe
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I did a rm * accidentally in my code directory and I have a meeting tomorrow
<imbrandon> ouch, in bzr or git ?>
<siretart> imbrandon: it's pretty well possible that a rebuild would just work, however this needs to be decided on a case to case basis
<LaserJock> imbrandon: well, I was actually cleaning it up to put in bzr when it happened
<imbrandon> siretart: totaly, you know when he's likely to be arround irc ?
<LaserJock> I wanted to do a rm *~
<imbrandon> ouch
<LaserJock> stupid ~ files
<imbrandon> LaserJock: alias rm="rm -i" hehe
<imbrandon> in your bashrc
<imbrandon> -i will ask you to confirm before deleting
<persia> LaserJock: You can also just tell just about any VCS to ignore *~
<LaserJock> perhaps alias rm_stupid="rm -i && echo you stupid idiot"
<persia> LaserJock: That should be `rm`.  You'll want `really rm` to be an unalias.
<LaserJock> persia: yeah, it's just a pet peeve
<persia> LaserJock: Checkin, rm -r, checkout :)
<imbrandon> its vims fault, use nano :)
<imbrandon> lol
<LaserJock> imbrandon: it was actually .... gedit
<imbrandon> hehe
<LaserJock> I have vim send ~ to  a special folder
<LaserJock> cause it's annoying
<LaserJock> at least it's not like emacs and those stupid # files
<LaserJock> gosh I hate those
<imbrandon> never got emacs to actualy open a file
<LaserJock> lol
<imbrandon> heh     only play tetris
<LaserJock> rofl
<imbrandon> and then i couldent exit
<LaserJock> you need the emacs psychologist
<persia> M-x eliza?
<LaserJock> I've only tried it a couple times, but I get a laugh out of it because my wife is a counselor
<imbrandon> hrm might be a good patch for gedit though, send *~ files to /somewhere/else
<LaserJock> "see, I paid for a master's degree for what emacs does for free" ;-)
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> ugh almost 20 hours later and flashplugin still isnt built
<imbrandon> someone is hogging up the buildd's
<LaserJock> just some archs?
<imbrandon> i386/amd64, lpia built
<persia> imbrandon: It's just a temporary pressure with DIF.  Should catch up soon (assuming someone doesn't have a heap of NBS uploads they plan for tomorrow)
<imbrandon> yea but 20 hours is a bit rediculus at any time in the cycle, we should have enough buildds thi never happens
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> seems like I remember times when it was up around 1 week
<LaserJock> langpacks and OO.o
<imbrandon> yea and in a 6 month cycle thats simply not acceptable
<persia> Why?  When the first syncs start, we're sometimes 8-10 days out.  As long as we're all caught up by midway between DIF & FF, I don't see any issues.
<imbrandon> you increase the buildd's or the 6 months
<imbrandon> persia: there is other work too, and even if there wasent that still dosent make sense
<slicer> Does anyone have time to do a review update of http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=mumble ?
<persia> imbrandon: To put it another way, why does it matter if the buildds are caught up during the first couple months of the cycle?  I don't understand what developer work is being delayed due to this (although yes, some things take longer).
<persia> Further, I'd much prefer a lag in the beginning than a chance of a lag later by trying to avoid a lag in the beginning.  Once we enter a more agressive testing environment, turnaround becomes more important.
<imbrandon> you dont understand a delay when i have to wait if my packages are built? i'm not going to move on and do something else untill i'm sure those are complete
<persia> imbrandon: OK.  It's that that I don't understand.  I tend to pipeline.
<imbrandon> infact most developers touch only a very limited set of packages, so would be in the same boat, its rare for contributors like yourself that "touch it all" or even have the ability to
<persia> imbrandon: OK.  That makes more sense.  Given a limited set of packages, with possibly complex interactions, pipelining vastly increases the chance of a FTBFS due to poor schedule interactions.
 * persia notes that personal volume is low, and while the package selection is fairly random, this isn't an indication of actually doing everything
<imbrandon> hehe yea, just an example, probably a bad on
<imbrandon> one*
<LaserJock> geser's the one that touches everything
<imbrandon> yea i really ment more than 2 to 3 pet packages , i think persia got the gist of it hehe
<imbrandon> people that do more than that are the exception
<imbrandon> as much as it would be nice for that not to be so, it is
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> that would also be an interesting metric to try to quantify
<imbrandon> well look at my +packages , i touch quite a bit, but there is still a patern to what i work on "mostly"
<persia> LaserJock: What, mean, median, and mode of breadth of packaging activity?
<LaserJock> average number of unique packages touched/MOTU
<LaserJock> perhaps with a std. dev. or something to give an idea of the range
<persia> LaserJock: People who do NBS would skew that madly.  Median or mode is likely more interesting, given the nature of the curve.
<LaserJock> or better yet a plot of it
 * persia is certain it's not normal, and std.dev. is meaningless
<LaserJock> probably just a histogram would suffice
<persia> LaserJock: ping ogasawara about that
 * TheMuso touches what interests him first, and then helps whereever possible.
<imbrandon> TheMuso: yup thats me
<LaserJock> persia: who?
<imbrandon> LaserJock: she hangs in #u-devel and #ubuntuwire , a Canonical employee
<LaserJock> really?
<persia> LaserJock: The person who I understand to be working on the developer metrics effort.
<LaserJock> sys admin type?
<LaserJock> ohh, we have developer metrics? when did this happen? :-)
<imbrandon> what persia said :)
<imbrandon> LaserJock: in-the-works hehe
<persia> LaserJock: We don't, but lots of people think they'd be nice...
<TheMuso> What are developer metrics?
<imbrandon> stats really
<TheMuso> ah
<LaserJock> well, it's a modified metric system
<LaserJock> where instead of a meter they use how far a geek is willing to be away from his laptop
<persia> TheMuso: Ideally, some information that goes beyond what joejaxx used to provide to tell us how we're doing.
<TheMuso> persia: ah ok
<imbrandon> and some idea to give the release managers an overview of how the reelase is ( first goal )
<imbrandon> aka weatherreport spec
<LaserJock> and temperature is in C but shifted so that 100 is the "OMG my computer melted" point and 0 is "hmm, that's good beer" point
<LaserJock> hmm, not in C rather
<persia> LaserJock: Yes in C, where "C" is "centigrade" (and no, not in Celsius)
<LaserJock> ah
 * LaserJock prefers Kelvin but the weather people don't seem to agree
 * TheMuso decides to hit up the uus queue again.
<imbrandon> ok smokes done, time to try to get a bit more sleep for tomarrow
<imbrandon> bbiab
<LaserJock> how do you smoke and then go to bed?
<LaserJock> isn't smoking supposed to keep you awake?
<persia> LaserJock: Depends on serum levels and tissue tolerance.
<LaserJock> I guess that's like my older brother who drinks Mt. Dew to go to sleep
<persia> LaserJock: caffine is different: high volumes provide a shock effect, causing immediate drowsiness.
<TheMuso> That sounds sick, both for smoking and drinking soft drink before going to bed.
<persia> TheMuso: definitely not healthy.
<TheMuso> I generally can't go to bed within an hor of eating something.
<TheMuso> hour
<TheMuso> ugh. Lots and lots and lots of compiler warnings.
<LaserJock> man, the upstream I work a little on, the author makes sure there are 0 compiler warnings before he releases the code
<TheMuso> Wow.
<TheMuso> Thats good.
<LaserJock> at first I thought it was kinda weird, but fixing them actually help, who'dve thunk it
<TheMuso> Afaik a warning starts to show that your code is not up to scratch with latest compilers
<persia> It may also show that your code is not entirely multiarchitecture safe (e.g. not properly 64-bit clean, or doesn't properly support alternate endianness)
<LaserJock> well, mine was just bad programming
<LaserJock> ;-)
<LaserJock> usually involving casting or unused variables
<txwikinger2> Hey folks.. still awake :)
<TheMuso> persia: Endianness issues don't always show up with compiler warnings.
<persia> TheMuso: Unfortunately true :(
<StevenK> TheMuso: Same for some 64-bit clean issues
<TheMuso> Those who are requesting sponsorship. Please ensure your lp bug closure syntax is correct, and sponsors, please unsubscribe uus, or ask someone to unsubscribe uus, to ensure bugs aren't left lying around.
<LaserJock> geeze, what's a good way to make an empty list in python?
<soren> LaserJock: foo = [] ?
<LaserJock> sorry, by empty I mean filled with zeros
<soren> LaserJock: How many of them?
<LaserJock> 501 :-)
<soren> foo = [ 0 ] * 501
<soren> I kid you not.
<LaserJock> really?
<soren> really
<soren> Sometimes, principle of least surprise can be quite surprising in itself.
<soren> You can also do a list comprehension of sorts, if that makes you feel less dirty..
<soren> foo = [ 0 for soren_rules in range(501) ]
<StevenK> That only makes me feel dirty due to "soren_rules"
<soren> Oh, ye of little faith.
<StevenK> "insane_soren" more works for me. :-P
<TheMuso> lol
<soren> There's plenty of prior art to suggest that ruling and being insane go quite well together.
<dholbach> haha
 * dholbach hugs super-soren
<StevenK> soren: Yeah, well
<coNP[uni]> Hey MOTUs!
<coNP[uni]> dholbach: for bug #174467 I see some REVU upload and also some debdiffs in LP. Should I merge them?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 174467 in gnome-schedule "Please sponsor gnome-schedule-1.2.1 into Hardy" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174467
 * pochu waves
<coNP[uni]> Hey pochu
<dholbach> coNP[uni]: I hope they are actually the same?
<coNP[uni]> REVU has gnome-schedule-1.2.1-0ubuntu1 and I have debdiffs up to 0ubuntu5
<coNP[uni]> But I guess this makes no sense since we have 1.1.0-2 in hardy
<coNP[uni]> s/I have/I have seen/
<coNP[uni]> ? gnome-schedule hardy
<dholbach> weird
<persia> coNP[uni]: That's just the process of education at work :)
<coNP[uni]> persia: sure
<\sh> jono, you are brave...cheering kubuntus day on planet.gnome ,-)
<jono> \sh: :)
 * persia grumbles about UTC+9 having more bandwidth than UTC-9, but the ML not being the appropriate place to complain about this.
<TheMuso> heh
<persia> I just don't like the phrase "The Western World" to mean "The northern hemisphere + Antipodes - central/south asia".
 * TheMuso calls it a night re Ubuntu work.
<persia> TheMuso: Good night.
<TheMuso> persia: I'm not off to bed yet.
<TheMuso> Just have had enough processing sponsors queue. :p
<persia> TheMuso: heh.  Thanks for chasing that: I'm just getting started, and expect to find a significantly shorter list.
<TheMuso> Yes. I've killed just about all the merges at least.
<persia> Perfect.  That's one of the two classes I shy from :)
<TheMuso> haha
<TheMuso> Thats one of the classes I really don't mind doing.
<persia> TheMuso: I just tend to either forget the -v, or get annoyed at the merger for not closing a couple other bugs while they are at it.  Saves grief for changelog readers, mergers, and myself if I don't touch them :)
<LaserJock> argg, my brain is gonna explode
<persia> LaserJock: Why?
<persia> (aside from the hour)
<LaserJock> it's 3:40 and I can't figure out why the heck my code isn't working
<LaserJock> it's not getting to the else:
 * persia suspects the code isn't working in part because it's 3:40
<LaserJock> which is really weird cause it should get their the majority of the time
<persia> LaserJock: reverse the sense of the check: most compilers optimise for if to be true by default anyway.
<LaserJock> what the heck, I even took out the elif
<BUGabundo> hi ppl
<BUGabundo> do you need help with pidgin?
<persia> Hi BUGabundo
<BUGabundo> I would like to help making it v2.3.1
<persia> BUGabundo: We don't really work on pidgin.  You might try #ubuntu-desktop.
<BUGabundo> redirecting. thanks persia
<LaserJock> ok, I'm doing something fundamentally wrong here
<LaserJock> I flipped the check
<LaserJock> but it will only go to the else: at the very end
<LaserJock> I could scream
<persia> LaserJock: Check your input.  You may find that you're being surprised.  Alternately, you may be transforming the data in a manner other than you expected.
<LaserJock> hmm, perhaps it's some whitespace error
<LaserJock> IndentationError: unexpected indent
<\sh> use emacs...;)
<persia> (and then, use lisp, so whitespace won't be as critical)
<txwikinger2> hehe. and count the parenthesis ;)
<LaserJock> ok, whitespace figured out
<LaserJock> but it still won't go to the else:
<LucidFox> TheMuso> qink has appeared in the Debian archive, so can be synced now
<mruiz> hi all
<LucidFox> hi mruiz
<BUGabundo> hi mruiz
<mruiz> hi LucidFox , BUGabundo :-)
<LaserJock> you HAVE to be kidding me!!!!
<LaserJock> the stupid else: wasn't tabbed properly and had a couple spaces
 * LaserJock stabs python in the heart and cuts of it's head with his laser
 * persia claims that syntactical markers should be visible
 * pochu points persia to vim then ;)
<persia> pochu: It's my preferred editor :)  (If only I had a close-brace key instead of a ^Z key)
<\sh> fight against mcdonalds http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRv0WBOwxfo ;)
 * \sh has too much time sitting around and doing nothing because nothing is what we do right now
<TheMuso> Night folks.
<persia> \sh: ?
<\sh> persia, our jobs are done...and they don't want to send us home...:(
<persia> \sh: Ah.  Pointful.
<\sh> persia, so what should we do but surfing all the crappy video portals ,-)
<persia> \sh: Do you actually want me to give you a suggestion?
<\sh> persia, I'm bored so yes, try :)
<persia> \sh: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs/no_updated.php
<\sh> persia, this I can only do at home...I just don't have a machine anymore wich is powerful enough to compile :(
<persia> (more points for longer time since last upload)
<txwikinger2> \sh: fix some bugs
<txwikinger2> there are lots of them available for pick up :D
<Hobbsee> siretart: presuming you know about the mail interface to launchpad.
<persia> \sh: That's fine.  Unlike bugfixing or security stuff, you don't need to compile to check the upstream, and get a candidate ready.  Mostly just a text editor.  For even easier things, try http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs/no_watch.php
<\sh> txwikinger, I want to ... I'll attend the pykde tutorial :)
<txwikinger2> \sh: where?
<txwikinger2> oh tonight?
<\sh> txwikinger, #kuibuntu-devel @15UTC
<mruiz> TheMuso, thanks for your comments and uploads :-)
<\sh> txwikinger, it's kubuntu tutorial day :) see p.u.c :)
<txwikinger2> well... I know.. I don't have a choice but to be there :P
<siretart> Hobbsee: oh, it is documented
<siretart> and actually working
<Hobbsee> siretart: true
<\sh> bbl
<slytherin> Is anyone planning to package batik toolkit from apache?
<persia> slytherin: The SVG library?
<slytherin> persia: yes.
<LaserJock> \o/, i did it
<LaserJock> going to bed now, night/morning all
<LaserJock> dang, 4:30 almost :(
<persia> slytherin: I suggest you may want to try to to resolve the confusion inherent in bug #141212, bug #147818, and bug #150484
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 141212 in j2se1.4-i586 "j2re1.4 etc cannot be installed non-interactively, which breaks buildds" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/141212
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 147818 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] batik SVG lib" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/147818
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 150484 in batik "batik has FTFBS forever" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/150484
<persia> To put it another way, it appears to be packaged, but doesn't work, and this isn't clear to people.
<slytherin> persia: How about using icedtea for building?
<slytherin> persia: or better use gcj
<persia> slytherin: Maybe worth a try.  If you want to look at it, I'd suggest verifying that the source matches the needs packaging bug (and if it does, closing the needs-packaging as done), then trying to resolve the FTBFS by working around the library issue.  To start, assign yourself all three bugs.
<persia> s/library/compiler/
<persia> Err.  I'm full of mistakes right now: assign yourself the batik bugs, I don't expect the j2re1.4 bug can be resolved easily, and it's certainly not closely related.
<slytherin> persia: Downloading the source. Let me check.
<persia> slytherin: Thanks.  I suspect you'll make a few people happy.  Also, next time, try searching for the application name from https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs, which is where I found the three bugs.
<slytherin> persia: I had no idea that the package was FTBFS for long time. And since it never ended up in the repos I assumed it was not packaged. :-)
<persia> slytherin: Understood: it's an odd case.  Searching the bug reports usually gets something.  You might also try `rmadison possible-package-name` to check sources (or play with grep-dctrl)
<mruiz> hi MOTUs! ... IDF is applying right now ?
<mruiz> s/IDF/DIF
<persia> mruiz: I haven't seen an annoucement, but likely
<mruiz> I asked because I have some details to fix with 2 merges :-)
<persia> mruiz: Well, you're officially late, so finish :)
<persia> (but take time and care to do it right: no need to rush just because it's DIF)
<Hobbsee> dholbach_: responded to your mail.
<Sikon_Stargate> Hobbsee> slomo has asked me to ask buildd administrators to rerun failed builds of tomboy0.9.1-0ubuntu1
<Sikon_Stargate> * tomboy 0.9.1-0ubuntu1
<Sikon_Stargate> no idea why he couldn't do that himself, though
<persia> Sikon_Stargate: Likely busy with something else (assuming you had a specific interest in tomboy)
<Hobbsee> grumble.  MC council mail got moderated.
<Hobbsee> Sikon_Stargate: hardy, presumably?
<Hobbsee> hm, yes, seems so
<Hobbsee> Sikon_Stargate: done
<mruiz> TheMuso, any advance about bug #175966 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 175966 in endeavour "Please merge endeavour 2.8.4-1 (universe) from Debian (unstable)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175966
<slytherin> where can I find information about all the fields in control file?
<pochu> slytherin: http://www.us.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html
<pochu> slytherin: new fields haven't been added yet (Homepage, Svn-*)
<persia> mruiz: timezones are such you'll have a wait asking like that (UTC+11).  Try again?
<mruiz> persia, then ?
<persia> mruiz: As I've suggested before, it's best to ask the channel generally to get an answer, and people may be busy or asleep.  This is even true when a sponsor is working on a bug with you: generally others are happy to provide suggestions and advice, and the sponsors don't tend to mind if someone else sponsors (as long as they aren't currently in the middle of a compile).
<persia> Err.  "as people may"
<slytherin> persia: Say if I succeed in fixing FTBFS for batik, what do you suggest, upload the fixed package first and then upload latest version or directly upload latest version?
<persia> slytherin: Unless there is some important reason to separate the two, I'd recommend only one upload.
<DaveMorris> persia: that rhythmbox upload was meant for ppa(I emailed the uploaded and he confirmed it) so it can be nuked - http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=rhythmbox
<slytherin> persia: The reason I am asking is that if I fix the build for current package and the patches are forwarded to debian then we can wait for some time for latest version to appear in debian and then sync.
 * persia grumbles about asking the channel generally and archives it.
<mruiz> then, I need a review for the bug #175966, please :-)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 175966 in endeavour "Please merge endeavour 2.8.4-1 (universe) from Debian (unstable)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175966
<persia> slytherin: We've passed the point where we wait for a sync (DebianImportFreeze).  If you think the current version is sufficient for hardy, just fix the FTBFS.  If there's some feature you think is critical for hardy, do the update (but explain why in the bug report).
<persia> mruiz: Thanks.  Looking now.
<persia> mruiz: Check the fourth paragraph under "Build, check, and report" in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging.  Looking at the debdiff...
<slytherin> persia: Ok. I haven't yet checked latest version.
<mruiz> persia, thanks for the modifications ...
<persia> mruiz: debdiff looks sane.  I avoid merges, but I suspect someone would get to it before too long.
<ScottK> dholbach_: Yes.  I did get some sleep, so I'm all the way up to really tired.
 * persia asks someone with the ability to build large packages to take a look at bug #133888.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133888 in wxwidgets2.8 "upgrade wxwidgets2.8 to the 2.8.6.1 release" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/133888
<persia> Kmos: About Debian bug #455711: where the package has a watch file, this information is presented to the maintainers from http://dehs.alioth.debian.org/
<ubotu> Debian bug 455711 in strongswan "New upstream version 4.1.9" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/455711
<mruiz> persia, then I need another comment to approve the upload?
<persia> mruiz: No, one sponsor is enough.  You just need to catch someone who normally does merges (or wait for the queue to clear, when I might get to them, but I suspect the former will happen first).  Should happen with no further effort on your part within the next 12 hours or so.
<persia> dholbach_: Please unsubscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors and subscribe yourself when rejecting candidates.
<slytherin> persia: need a bit help. I am getting following error even when the evrsion is available in ubuntu,
<slytherin>   -> Considering build-dep libavalon-framework-java (>= 4.2.0-1) Tried versions:  -> Does not satisfy version, not trying
<persia> slytherin: I'm not somebody who knows much about that.  You might ask others.  As generic advice, I'd suggest looking at the libavalon-framework-java package to see why it can't be satisfied.
 * Hobbsee would expect teh fact that it's in multiverse has something to do with it.
<Hobbsee> slytherin: what are you trying to build?
<slytherin> Hobbsee: batik
<persia> Hobbsee: Just for context, we've never had a successful build in Ubuntu.
 * Hobbsee checks the build log
<persia> Hobbsee: For more context, slytherin addressed that problem, and is looking at the next in the chain
<slytherin> persia: Hobbsee: Ok. Found the problem. Actually I was first trying to build in gutsy in which avalon depends on kaffee. I guess I better build in hardy chroot
<Hobbsee> you should *always* be doing FTBFS' to do with dependancies, etc, in a chroot.
<slytherin> Hobbsee: You misunderstood, I am building in chroot (but of gutsy). Since the package will be fixed in hardy only I better try that chroot.
<persia> slytherin: Once you get it working in hardy, it may be interesting to try to fix it in earlier releases, but hardy is definitely the first step.
<slytherin> persia: Even if I fix it for gutsy, will it be accepted?
<persia> slytherin: Once it is in hardy, you can apply for an SRU to the SRU team.  FTBFS bugs are often accepted, depending on the invasiveness of the changes.
<dholbach> persia: which bug are you referring to?
<dholbach> Hobbsee: great
<dholbach> ScottK: I hope you'll have some time to relax a bit soon
<persia> dholbach: bug #175802 and bug #175018 are the two I noticed, although I may be seeing a false pattern.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 175802 in gfceu "Sponsor gfceu_0.6.0-0ubuntu2" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175802
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 175018 in strongswan "strongswan: New upstream release 4.1.9" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175018
<dholbach> persia: OK, thanks for taking a look at them
<persia> dholbach: No problems: it just seems odd to be reviewing something already rejected (I'm happy to override you sometimes, but neither of these were suitable for upload anyway)
<dholbach> persia: yeah
<ScottK> dholbach: Thanks.
<txwikinger2> dholbach: Is there a Q&A session tomorrow again?
<dholbach> txwikinger2: yeah, 13:00 UTC - we made it a fixed date
<txwikinger2> Ah cool..
<txwikinger2> I will put it into kAlarm ;)
<dholbach> take a look at the header of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
<txwikinger2> Nice :)
<txwikinger2> I guess I have to do something tonight then ;)
<txwikinger2> The page has no green spots
<nxvl_work> yesternay it was the debian freeze, did't it?
<nxvl_work> oh no, it's today
<mruiz> nxvl_work, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyReleaseSchedule
<nxvl_work> mruiz: i have just take a look in there, thnx
<mruiz> nxvl, anytime
<slytherin> persia: Hobbsee: any idea why libavalon is in multiverse?
<Hobbsee> slytherin: probably due to the java it uses to build
<Hobbsee> slytherin: the one that has the licence agreement needed
<slytherin> Hobbsee: It uses gcj (java-gcj-compat)
<persia> slytherin: You'll do best to ask generally, rather than specific people.  This is especially true as it gets late on this side of the globe.  What license does libavalon have?
<slytherin> persia: Apache and as I just pointed out it uses gcj to build.
<persia> slytherin: Next, check the dependencies.  Perhaps it relies on something else unfree.  If there's nothing wrong, then it's likely there for historical reasons, and it's worth asking for promotion.
<slytherin> hmm
<Hobbsee> slytherin: because of  j2re1.4 and j2sdk1.4
<Hobbsee> whcih are pulled in as build deps
<persia> Hobbsee: java-gcj-compat, no?
<geser> slytherin: avalon-framework was in the past in Debian contrib
<Hobbsee> persia: i don't know the specifics of java, i just know that anything that ends up build-depping on those packages will send it to multiverse.
<slytherin> Hobbsee: no, java-gcj-compat pulls gcj. persia: it depends on  nothing than java.
 * Hobbsee is just looking at the existing build log for it.
<slytherin> geser: Right but is has moved out of contrib for long time. SO I guess it is time to move it to universe.
<geser> slytherin: nobody found out till now that it moved to Debian main and can also move from multiverse to universe
<geser> slytherin: please file a bug
<persia> slytherin: Again, you're asking non-ideal people :)  We'll answer, but aren't the best.  What about ant-optional,, liblog4j1.2-java,, liblogkit-java,libxalan2-java, and junit?
 * persia defers to geser
<dholbach>  * Riddell bigs up Kubuntu Tutorials Day in half an hour in #kubuntu-devel https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuTutorialsDay
 * dholbach passes on the message :)
<slytherin> persia: Do you suggest that I create a page listing java based packages which should be moved to universe? I will then file a tracking bug perhaps.
<slytherin> persia: I just found this because batik depends on avalon and I didn't have multiverse enabled in my pbuilder.
<persia> slytherin: There's a page on the Debian wiki showing the current status of moving things to main.  If you check that against Ubuntu, and find a bunch of things that should be in universe, file a bug with a task for each package, and describe the reasoning to move to universe, and subscribe the sponsors queue (but as I've said, others may answer better than I)
<persia> slytherin: That's actually really helpful.  If it's free, it shouldn't be in multiverse.
<slytherin> persia: I will start with avalon and other dependencies of batik for now. :-)
<slytherin> geser: should I file bug against source package or binary packages?
<persia> slytherin: Best to ask the channel generally, and source
<slytherin> persia: Sorry, forgot that.
<slytherin> Done. bug 176139
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 176139 in avalon-framework "Move package to universe" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/176139
<persia> slytherin: Are there any other packages that you will need to move for your batik project?
<slytherin> persia: None. Just checked. All others are in main or universe.
<Hobbsee> you can still get it sponsored, even if it's in multiverse
<zul> morning
<persia> slytherin: In that case, I'd recommend adjusting the description to use "please", as this will be a request passed to the archive admins, and subscribing ubuntu-universe-sponsors to get a sponsor to confirm and submit to the archive-admins.
<persia> Hobbsee: But it doesn't need to be in multiverse.
<Hobbsee> persia: this is true
<slytherin> persia: will do.
<persia> Hobbsee: So, if avalong gets moved first, batik doesn't need to be moved later :)
<Hobbsee> persia: both will need to be moved.
 * persia really ngeeds to replace the ng key with a normal "n" key
<persia> slytherin: You might want to add a batik task to that, with your batik patch.
<geser> slytherin: acked bug #176139 and subscribed ubuntu-archive
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 176139 in avalon-framework "Please move package to universe" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/176139
<slytherin> persia: Let me first build batik. The page on Debian wiki says there are some problems related to SWING/AWT events and hence the package is still not in main in Debian.
 * slytherin will be back in 5 miinutes
<persia> slytherin: In that case, you'll want a new bug for batik (especially as the other has already been passed to the archive-admins)
 * RainCT is looking for something fast to fix
<persia> RainCT: watch files
<persia> RainCT: Java migrations to main
<persia> s/main/universe/
 * RainCT has no idea about java
<RainCT> persia: I'll fix some watch file then. thanks :)
<persia> RainCT: There's also 216 source packages left in universe with "ubuntu" in the version but no "ubuntu" in the maintainer.
<geser> RainCT: you could also look at unmet deps
 * persia notes that anyone else interested in little projects might find any of the above interesting as well
<persia> geser: Doesn't that usually take a compile?  Easy, but not always fast.
<RainCT> persia: those are interesting heh. is there a list of them?
<persia> RainCT:  `wget -O - http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/hardy/universe/source/Sources.gz| gunzip | grep-dctrl -sPackage,Maintainer -FVersion ubuntu  | grep-dctrl -sPackage -FMaintainer -v -n ubuntu | sort -u`
<RainCT> thx
<persia> RainCT: As with anything else, it's worth combining things: maybe watch file + unmetdeps + maintainer change + a couple easy bugs on the package from LP.
<geser> persia: doesn't (nearly) every fix need a compile test?
<persia> geser: Except for watch files or the java migrations, I'd say yes, and even in those cases, it's a good idea.  My error.
<geser> ok, those fixes doesn't necessary need a build test
<CarlFK> apt-get source ubiquity, change files.  how do I make a patch?  (hoping for something like svn diff)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<persia> CarlFK: Check for a patch system, but assuming you've made the patch in the preferred manner, debuild -S; $TEST_BUILD_PROCEDURE; $TEST_PROCEDURE; debdiff ubiquity_1.7.1.dsc ubiquity_1.7.2.dsc
<persia> !patch
<ubotu> Patches are files describing the changes in code to achieve some results.  There are a number of ways these can be produced, but https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFix and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems may provide some useful guidelines.
<geser> Hi bddebian
<CarlFK> thanks
<bddebian> Heya geser
<slytherin> damn, batik does not build with free java
<persia> slytherin: Not even iced tea?
<slytherin> persia: Will have to check. Sources contain some import statements of the form com.sun.image.codec.jpeg.JPEGEncodeParam
<persia> slytherin: That might require deeper investigation, but if you find a free implementation, patching the sources is a possible solution.
<slytherin> persia: Will check if gcj implements image classes.
<persia> slytherin: Also check iced-tea.  It's less ideal due to greater variance from Debian, but is at least universe.
<slytherin> will do. don't worry I am a java developer so I can put more brain in this. :-)
<nxvl_work> !sync
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about sync - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<nxvl_work> !SyncRequest
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about syncrequest - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<persia> nxvl: Either use requestsync, or open a bug including the version to be synced, an explanation of why it should be synced, and the changelog since the last Ubuntu upload, and subscribe the sponsors queue.
<mruiz> hi all, I need a second opinion for the bug #175966, please. thanks
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 175966 in endeavour "Please merge endeavour 2.8.4-1 (universe) from Debian (unstable)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175966
<persia> mruiz: Firstly, why do you need a second opinion?  Secondly, as it's in the sponsors queue, it should get uploaded or commented in due time.
<nxvl_work> can someone please give a look at bug #174593 and sponsor it?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 174593 in gramps "merge gramps 2.2.9-2 from debian sid" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174593
 * persia reemphasizes that advertising bugs in the sponsors queue is unlikely to draw much focus.  IF you've a question about your implementation, or want to better understand a sponsor comment, it's useful.  If you just seek an upload, please be patient.
 * RainCT can't figure out why this isn't working (watch)  http://www.exit1.org/download/ff http://www.exit1.org/packages/Gtk2-Ex-FormFactory/dist/Gtk2-Ex-FormFactory-(.*).tar.gz
<nxvl_work> persia: i know, i was only remaining the sponsors, if there is one with some free time, so it can upload it before the freeze, i'm not impacient :D just trying the merge to be done :D
<RainCT> nxvl_work: afaik it can still be uploaded after the freeze :)
<persia> nxvl_work: The freeze is already in place, but any of the sponsors can (and likely will) grant a freeze exception.
<persia> RainCT: Because "http://www.exit1.org/packages/Gtk2-Ex-FormFactory/dist/Gtk2-Ex-FormFactory-(.*).tar.gz" doesn't work very well as a regex deliminated by '/'.  Either escape the '/' characters, or find a shorter string (e.g. /.*Gtk2-Ex-FormFactory-([\d\.]*).tar.gz/)
<geser> nxvl_work: Where is the mentioned "- Removed dh_python from debian/rules" change? I can't find it in the debdiff
<persia> s/deliminated/delimited/
<nxvl_work> geser: ups..
<nxvl_work> geser: :D
<nxvl_work> i make a mistake applying the changes i have been working on and forgot to recheck
<nxvl_work> making a new one
<RainCT> persia: ah. this works :)   http://www.exit1.org/download/ff (?:.*)Gtk2-Ex-FormFactory-([\d\.]*).tar.gz
<RainCT> thanks
<persia> RainCT: No problem.  Yours is much better than mine as well :)
<nxvl_work> ok, so now that we are on freezy, what is the next step
<persia> nxvl_work: How do you mean?
<mruiz> persia, I didn't know about exceptions for DIF
<nxvl_work> which are the most important bugs on this step of the development circle
<nxvl_work> geser: fixed
<persia> nxvl_work: Current focus is integration: find things that don't build, aren't build from source, don't work together well, etc.
<nxvl_work> persia: so, the main site to check now is ubuntuwire?
<persia> nxvl_work: LP still has thousands of bugs waiting for attention, so it's worth looking there as well.
<RainCT> can debhelper be a Build-Depends-Indep?
<geser> RainCT: no, unless you don't need it in clean
<persia> mruiz: Policy on universe DIF freeze is not cast in stone.  Current discussion can be found in the thread starting https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2007-December/002888.html
<nxvl_work> what is the Build-Depends-Indep field for?
<nxvl_work> is the only one on control i don't understand
<persia> nxvl_work: packages needed to build architecture:all binary packages
<RainCT> geser: there's dh_* stuff in clean:. so should I change it to a Build-Depends?
<geser> yes
<RainCT> ok, thanks
<geser> linda/lintian should afaik complain
<persia> RainCT: If you're working on a package not in Debian, and you feel like fixing all the lintian & linda items, that'd be nice too.
<RainCT> and is it encouraged to bump it's version from >= 4.0.0 to >= 5.0.38 on the way?
<persia> RainCT: Only if you need features from the newer debhelper
 * persia doesn't understand why moderation is required for mail to MC
<RainCT> well.. sponsor queue got 2 items longer.. I've to go now :)
<geser> persia: are you perhaps subscribed with the wrong e-mail address?
<persia> geser: That might be it (although I'm not sure it's that I'm subscribed with the wrong address as that I may have sent from the wrong address)
<mok0> hi
<bddebian> hello mok0
<bddebian> Is anyone super familiar with help2man?
<mok0> bddebian: I've used help2man. What's up?
<mok0> Lemme guess: it doesn
<mok0> t work :-)
<bddebian> Is there a way to get it to generate without a -version?
<mok0> Hmm. Explain
<bddebian> I can override the help option with --help-option=-h but there is nothing in the package for --version so I can't use --version-option :-(
<mok0> In my version of help2man there is...
<mok0> -v, --version-option=STRING  version option string
<bddebian> mok0: Aye, help2man has that but the package I'm trying to create a manpage for (xbattle) has no option for displaying the version
<mok0> bddebian: what is it you want to do, then?
<bddebian> So I would like help2man to ignore version entirely
<mok0> bddebian: you have to edit it into the manpage manually (eeech)
<mok0> bddebian: why don't you just give it the help option, then
<bddebian> mok0: I just tried that but then I get a shitload of duplicated entries :-(
<mok0> Arrgh. Isn
<mok0> isnt there some other option that gives no output?
<mok0> bddebian: Perhaps you can help me with advice
<bddebian> I can't find anything that gives no output :-(
<mok0> I am working on the merge of xtide, but the debian maintainer didn't do a very good job of it. For the program to run, it needs some aux. data files that are not in the package. So I can (1) include a script that gets the data and unpacks it, or (2) create another package with the data only. What should I do?
<persia> mok0: How big is the data?  Is the data architecture dependent?  Is the package architecture dependent?
<mok0> persia: It's pretty big, maybe 30Mb
<mok0> 37 to be exact
 * persia waits for the other two answers
<mok0> the data is not arch dependent
<mok0> the program is an ordinary X program
<bddebian> Is the data in the package and the maintianer just didn't include another binary package for it?
<bddebian> Or are there any license issues?
<mok0> bddebian: no, the data is not in the package. The program starts, but shows a nearly blank window, and there is only one location for which to show the tide
<mok0> the world map is blank because there is no shoreline data
<persia> mok0: Is the data in the source (upstream)?
<white> Fujitsu: are you happen to be at the miniconf?
<mok0> persia: you can get it from upstreams home page. Some of the data is in the public domain.
<mok0> persia: some data is available that is not. I would choose the PD stuff of course
<persia> mok0: OK.  Just to make sure I understand, the arch;any xtide binary package doesn't currently work very well because it has no data.  Upstream provides 37MB of data with reasonably free license available in a separate download, but this data is not currently packaged.  Is this correct?
<mok0> persia: yes
<mok0> persia: the program installs itself in the menu, so it is tempting to run for a user exploring the system
<mok0> persia: but pretty boring without data
<persia> mok0: Check with the debian maintainer.  If they are currently working on packaging that, it may be worth waiting a bit, and asking for a sync later (yes, DIF exception, but generally good).  If they are not working on it, package it, set a recommends: from xtide, and pass it to the Debian maintainer for consideration (most importantly the orig.tar.gz)
<mok0> persia: sounds like a reasonable idea
<mok0> persia: You'd almost think that the debian maintainer had never actually run the program :-P
<bddebian> It's possible :-)
<mok0> Actually, that ought to be a requirement in the packaging guidelines: you need to run the program and check that it works as intended!
<persia> mok0: That's currently considered best practice
<mok0> I haven't run into that myself, since I've only packaged programs that I actually use myself
<slytherin> persia: Sorry, batik depends on some image processing apis which are available only in Sun Java/Jre. :-(
<persia> slytherin: In that case, go ahead and get it working in multiverse
<slytherin> persia: How? One can not install sun-java non-interactively
<persia> slytherin: Can you confirm it builds properly when built that way, and can you confirm it works properly when so built?
<bddebian> You can't afaik because it ask you to accept the license
<mok0> bddebian: I was sure the problem you had with help2man was another one, because it doesn't work if the help and version info is written to stderr :-/
<mok0> bddebian: I have a little wrapper script to help with that
<bddebian> Yeah, it blows.  I'm hacking it up manually
<mok0> bddebian: You know about asciidoc?
<slytherin> persia: I will try building and running it standalone but then what is next step? It won't build in chroot
<persia> slytherin: Even if you log into the chroot?
<slytherin> persia: That way I will be able to do. Please tell me what all things I should try. I will be offline in 5 minutes and will try all these things tomorrow.
<persia> slytherin: I couldn't possibly.  At a base level, get it built, and get it tested.  Find out the minimal set of requirements to do so.  Document everything, and submit a bug to the sponsors.
<slytherin> persia: Ok. That is the best I can do.
 * persia wishes jdstrand luck, and hopes he'll find time to help with MOTU-swat as well
<slytherin> persia: Leaving now. See you (or rather bug you) tomorrow. :-)
<persia> slytherin: You'll get better responses (especially about this) by asking generally for assistance.
<slytherin> sure.
<geser> persia: are you going to ask jdstrand about his plans in MOTU like work in motu-swat or should I?
<persia> geser: I'm neither sponsor nor MC, and I don't have community objection, so I don't feel I have voice in this.  Please ask.
<asac> RAOF: when back could you please ping me in #ubuntu-mozillateam channel to talk about miro?
<tsmithe> are there any examples of get-orig-source rules that are well known that i can check out? mscore has to repack a bzip2'd tarball and remove some files, and add dfsg and it's going to look nasty...
<persia> tsmithe: There's some examples in the repacking the tarball section in the wiki packaging guide, but nothing quite that complex.
<tsmithe> i'll check it out
<persia> tsmithe: I'd think you'd want a four line rule: unpack, clean, rename, pack
<persia> (or, maybe 5 or 6 if you want to add some debhelper calls to do things like move to the right directory, etc.)
<tsmithe> righty
<tsmithe> thanks
<persia> tsmithe: Thanks for including the rule.
<tsmithe> it's good practice :)
<persia> tsmithe: By the way, what are you planning to use for the sounds?  freepats?
<white> StevenK: ha, take this :)
<white> StevenK: http://people.debian.org/~weasel/weboftrust/debian/20070813/output/msd-sorted.html
<white> StevenK: look for stevenk and for white :P
<tsmithe> i'm not sure yet. did you get my comment about the fluidsynth dev package shipping a rather strange sounding (but obviously free) font? that could be moved out into the main package, rather than the development one, i suppose, and i could point to that.
<tsmithe> it's installed to /usr/share/doc/libfluidsynth-dev/examples/example.sf2
<tsmithe> persia, ^^
<persia> In -dev?  That's just odd.
<tsmithe> i'm also a tad annoyed that pulse is on by default in hardy, and as it doesn't support mmap access, mscore (or any fluidsynth application) will fail
<tsmithe> persia, that's what i thought, but there it is
<blueyed> interdiff does not get used for packages without orig.tar.gz (native packages). Is there a way to compare two native tar.gz archives, so that a -p1 compatible diff gets created?
<blueyed> See bug 136863 - I would have a patch for debdiff, so if somebody could confirm the bug, please.. :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 136863 in devscripts "debdiff: make debdiff "patch -p1" compatible, when there are no diffs" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/136863
<persia> tsmithe: unfortunately, with that license, it's multiverse, so fluidsynth-dev isn't in the right place.  On the other hand, I think Ian has a few fonts, and that's a loose license.
<tsmithe> persia, which is multiverse?
<tsmithe> libfluidsynth-dev is in universe
<tsmithe> and i can't find any mention of example.sf2 in the copyright file
<persia> tsmithe: The soundfont.  It's in the wrong component: cannot be modified except for private use.
<persia> tsmithe: sf2/COPYRIGHT in the source
<tsmithe> ah. damn; i don't have the sources here, so i didn't see that.
<tsmithe> hmm. who is Ian?
<persia> tsmithe: The font author: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Campus/8645/sf2.html
<tsmithe> right, but none of those have source... in fact, nor does example.sf2, but as that's already disregarded..
<persia> tsmithe: What's the source of a soundfont?  A bunch of WAV files?
<tsmithe> well, yes. that's what i would have thought. however, i'm not totally sure what the definition of "source" is when "sources" are required, nor am i certain of how stringent those requirements are.
<persia> tsmithe: "source" is the preferred format for editing.  Stringency is based on the intepretation of the preferred format for editing by the archive-admins (or Debian ftp-masters) when the package is first uploaded, and later tracked as bug reports (which may get a package moved to multiverse if not addressed, (or possibly removed from the archive if GPL))
<tsmithe> so we are agreed that a sf2 file in its native state is acceptable?
<persia> tsmithe: Sure.  Lets call it a swami file :)
<bddebian> heh
<tsmithe> hehe, if you say so :)
<tsmithe> now i've just got to find some nice distributable soundfonts
<persia> tsmithe: More problematically, all the GS or GM sets I can find are non-commercial, and some (like Vintage Dreams 2.0 Waves) are unmodifiable except for personal use.
<tsmithe> yeah, it's not cool.
<persia> tsmithe: From what I understand, it's because people are just grabbing random samples that they like, rather than resampling everything.  The alternative is about a week of studio time, with a good session team, and a huge instrument rental budget.
<tsmithe> hmm. i wonder if i could get it done at school..
<tsmithe> we are a music college..
<persia> tsmithe: You've probably access to all the right patches, and you can offer publication to anyone who wants to help (everlasting fame as the $instrument on the first completely free soundfont)
<persia> s/patches/patch sources/
<tsmithe> what exactly is a patch source?
<persia> tsmithe: In this context, a "patch" would be a set of samples to represent a virtual instrument.  You'd want to record each note, variations between notes, variations within a note, etc.  Then you assemble these into a patch.  A soundfont contains a bunch of patches (one for each instrument), which can be loaded into your sampler (e.g. fluidsynth).  Then, you select a program, a note, modulation, pitch shift, envelope, effects, etc. and get a aud
<tsmithe> get a au?
<tsmithe> "audible"? "audio"? "augmented"?
<pochu> StevenK: DIF is in a few hours. Any news on bug 156210? :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 156210 in virtualbox-ose "Please update Virtualbox to 1.5.2" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/156210
 * persia dislikes buffers "get a audio stream."
<tsmithe> ah :)
<tsmithe> and i'd have to do this for each GM instrument?
<tsmithe> where's a list of those?
<persia> GM is the minimal set, GS is the common set (and standard in XP).  XG is the Yamaha extensions to that GS.  Modern samplers have > 1000 patches, but that's more than one needs as a base.
 * tsmithe chews lip
<persia> tsmithe: Wikipedia has an entry on GM at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_MIDI
<tsmithe> got there :)
<tsmithe> i'm not sure we could do the helicopter, but i'm sure we could do the rest
<tsmithe> although...
 * tsmithe imagines hiring a helicopter just to get a patch
<persia> tsmithe: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_GS is the extras you probably want.  XG would be nifty, but almost nobody supports it other than Yamaha.
<tsmithe> right, i'll have a chat tomorrow
<tsmithe> now, back to get-orig-source
<persia> blueyed: You might consider using filterdiff --strip to achieve that, rather than sed.
<dholbach> hey blueyed
<blueyed> persia: actually I've now patched debdiff (I did not remember having used the sed snippet too often :D)
<blueyed> Hi dholbach
<persia> blueyed: I saw the bug, I was just thinking of using something in patchutils rather than sed, as that way debdiff isn't reponsible for how it works, only calling it properly.
<persia> tsmithe: Good luck :)
<blueyed> persia: debdiff does not call sed.. Do you think the debdiff script should rather use filterdiff --strip, instead of doing it in perl?
 * persia reads the bug again
<blueyed> persia: read the debdiff/patch. It could be done with filterdiff, too - of course. I did not know about it though.
<blueyed> ..just like debdiff uses interdiff for non native packages. But the current patch will work without filterdiff installed.
<persia> blueyed: Ah.  I was reading the bug, not the patch.  That seems sane.
<blueyed> persia: I've filed the bug some time ago already, but my debdiff for meta-gnome2 reminded me of it.. :)
<jdstrand> persia: thanks!
<persia> blueyed: Now that there is a patch, it's more likely to happen.  Personally, for that deep layer stuff, I tend to submit the patch to Debian, just in case.  Sometimes even the main sponsors don't like to make changes in the tools we use so often.
<blueyed> persia: I'm looking already at the debian devscript bugs.. will try to link/forward it.
<tsmithe> can someone tell me why make thinks there is "nothing to be done" for http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/48125/ ?
<persia> tsmithe: is get-orig-source .PHONY?
<tsmithe> yes
<persia> OK.  You don't need all the &&\ as make automatically assumes that (although you will need more frequent references to ../ without it)
<tsmithe> ok then. i thought it'd make life easier if i could cd to a directory and assume i'd stay there :)
<persia> Line 8 should be find --name *sf2 -exec rm {} +
<tsmithe> ok. find has always confused me, and i've read the manpage a number of times
<persia> tsmithe: Sure, but it breaks the "debian/rules is not a shell script" best practice
<tsmithe> oh ok then
<persia> OK.  If it's .PHONY, I have no idea why it would report "Nothing to be done".  The dependencies of .PHONY should always run.
<Ubulette> we have two venkman in hardy
<Ubulette> !info venkman hardy
<ubotu> Package venkman does not exist in hardy
<Ubulette> damn, this is still broken
<persia> Ubulette: mozilla- and xulrunner-1.9- ?
<Ubulette> yep
<persia> Ubulette: Which should remain?
<Ubulette> the one in xul is native and is in the (new) target dir
<persia> Ubulette: Then file a bug requesting the archive admins to remove mozilla-venkman from hardy and add it to the blacklist.  Explain why it shouldn't be in Ubuntu in the description, and subscribe the sponsors queue.
<tsmithe> in http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/48137/ why wouldn't make wait for uscan to have finished?
<tsmithe> the line works in the shell..
<Ubulette> you're confusing make variables and shell variables
<Ubulette> and iirc, get-orig-source should work from anywhere so starting with "cd .." makes me think will not
<Ubulette> +it
<soren> "cd .." can never fail..
<Ubulette> please re-read
<Ubulette> the "work from anywhere" part
<tsmithe> anywhere is irrelevant
<tsmithe> it just wants to work in the directory above current, to avoid clutter
<Ubulette> isn't debian policy saying otherwise ?
<tsmithe> i am following the example at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Examples/ChangingTheOrigTarball for using a watch file
<tsmithe> Ubulette, is it?
<soren> "This target may be invoked in any directory, and should take care to clean up any temporary files it may have left."
<soren> From "4.9 Main building script: debian/rules"
<tsmithe> thank you. it will work "invoked in any directory" and will "clean up any temporary files"
<tsmithe> doing echo $$(uscan --force-download --dehs --destdir .. | sed -n 's/.*<upstream-version>\(.*\)<\/upstream-version>.*/\1/p') works, however
<tsmithe> (in the makefile)
<tsmithe> it does seem to be waiting correctly, just not filling the variable...
<Ubulette> $(shell uscan ...)
<Ubulette> $$(uscan ...) is just make-ified shell
<Ubulette> and as I said, your $version is a shell variable, it will be lost the next line
<Ubulette> rewrite as:
<Ubulette> get-orig-source: version = $(shell something)
<Ubulette> get-orig-source:
<gouki> nmap 4.50 is out! :)
<Ubulette>       something else using $(version)
<tsmithe> Ubulette, thanks :)
<Ubulette> tsmithe, have a look at http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/seamonkey/seamonkey-1.1.dev/files
<Ubulette> at the bottom of debian/rules
<Ubulette> mine is complex, with embedded tarball + clean up and all, but you get the idea
<tsmithe> Ubulette, yeah. that's very helpful. thank you very much. however, i'm now getting the error "commands commence before first target."
<tsmithe> they don't seem to, and i think i've formatted the line correctly.
<Ubulette> plz pastebin it
<tsmithe> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/48140/
<Ubulette> you need two lines
<tsmithe> oh right, i see now :)
<Ubulette> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/48141/
<tsmithe> yep, thank you again :)
<effie_jayx> can anyone point me towards a simple merge ?
<tsmithe> yay my first ever get-orig-source rule and it works! :D
<Gunirus> rulus: mpm
<Gunirus> rulus: lol
<Iwanowitch> How much work/knowledge/time does it take to be maintainer of a package? I'd like the mercury package working, and I'm willing to do at least part of the work myself.
<geser> Iwanowitch: Hard to say, it depends how much time you need to learn the packaging basics, how complex the package is, how often upstream releases new versions (if you want to always have the latest versions), how many bugs the package has, etc.
<mruiz> where can I find information to help with FTBFS bugs?
<Gunirus> otu
<tsmithe> persia, on revu for mscore: "11) Missing copyrights on the demos: they should be GPL or explicity PD"
<geser> mruiz: which information do you look for?
<tsmithe> persia, what makes you think they aren't copyright Werner Schweer, like most of the rest of the package?
<Iwanowitch> Yeah, I suppose so... I'll think about it and try some stuff before I'm asking more wide-open questions.
<geser> mruiz: there is http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ which lists all problems and is currently updated once daily, so you need to check if the display data is still accurate
<mruiz> hi geser ... is difficult to solve these problems?
<geser> mruiz: it depends on the problem :)
<geser> mruiz: some are easy as the only problem was that the packages were build in the wrong order
<geser> mruiz: fixing some bashism in the packaging is usually also quite easy
<geser> but there are also packages where some deeper knowledge is needed
<geser> mruiz: e.g. http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10553993/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-i386.whizzytex_1.3.1-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz is quite easy
<mruiz> geser, can you guide me with this one?
<geser> mruiz: you need to check that it builds now and ask an build-admin for a give-back (I usually ask pitti for give-backs)
<nixternal> w/o scrolling up...I take it there is an issue with the main repos? pbuilder keeps crashing out on trying to update for hardy as well as tryinging to build for hardy
<geser> mruiz: sure
<mruiz> geser, I'm downloading the source...
<mruiz> nixternal, I'm updating my hardy pbuilder without problems
<nixternal> hrmm
<nixternal> 404 Not Found [IP: 91.189.88.45 80]
<mruiz> sorry, nixternal I got this error: Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have
<mruiz> requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable
<mruiz> distribution that some required packages have not yet been created
<mruiz> or been moved out of Incoming.
<mruiz> The following information may help to resolve the situation:
<mruiz> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<mruiz>   aptitude: Depends: libapt-pkg-libc6.6-6-4.5 but it is not installable
<mruiz> E: Broken packages
<nixternal> that be the one that crashes on update
<nixternal> and all of my deps from main during a build are crashing out
<mruiz> geser, I'm ready
<geser> in this case (whizzytex) all you need to test is if the package builds (in a hardy pbuilder)
<tsmithe> if there are pdfs without sources in my package, do i have to remove them to comply with dfsg?
<geser> iirc yes
<TheMuso> Hey folks.
<geser> Hi TheMuso
<mruiz> hi TheMuso
<nxvl_work> whet is the feature freezy about?
<bddebian> Hi TheMuso
<nxvl_work> i mean, whats the goal on this part of the circle
<nxvl_work> TheMuso: hi!
<mruiz> TheMuso, I have a question about mailping... the original merge changelog looks strange for me:  http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/48145/
<TheMuso> mruiz: Whats happening is MoM and perhaps DaD think there is a nwer version, which there is. But, when the merge is done, I think the merging realizes that the ubuntu version is newer than the Debian version.
<TheMuso> mruiz: As I said, use dpkg -=-compare-versions to see what I mean.
<CheGuevara> hi, i wanted to ask if someone could re-sync the REVU uploaders keyring as per wiki
<mruiz> TheMuso, if you look the changelog the latest version is Debian (0.0.4-1) and the merge would be 0.0.4-1ubuntu1
<TheMuso> mruiz: using dpkg --compare-versions, 0.0.4-1ubuntu1 is not a greater version than 0.0.4ubuntu4.
<mruiz> I have to go... bye guys
<jpatrick> adios mruiz
<mruiz> cya jpatrick
<RainCT> uhm.. I've found a package which is released under a "do what you want but don't remove this notice" license, but debian/copyright says it's GPL2.. :/
<LordKow> man the xine-libs are a cluster-___ atm
<LordKow> Depends: libxine1-plugins (= ${source:Version}) | libxine1-misc-plugins (= ${binary:Version}), <-- why does one package depend on the source version while the other the binary version? the binary version of what?
<LordKow> itself?
<RainCT> that license is in the header of all source files, but additionaly there's also a LICENSE file with the GPL2 text (probably just copied from another app, as there's also an empty NEWS file and a standard GNU INSTALL file)
<LordKow> i thought the source package version depends the binary version so in essence they should be the same thing...
<LordKow> err, i thought its the source version that determines the binary version
<LordKow> having a source package with a different version than the binary packages it builds just seems wrong
<LordKow> when i compile program-1.0.0 i expect the compiled program to be of version 1.0.0
<man-di> LordKow: in Ubuntu thats true, but not in Debian. In debian exist binNMUs
<LordKow> those need to be removed from existence, its confusing and defies all logic
<LordKow> dpkg: regarding libxine1_1.1.8-3ubuntu1_amd64.deb containing libxine1:libxine1-bin conflicts with libxine1 (<< 1.1.8-4) libxine1 (version 1.1.8-3ubuntu1) is to be installed.
<LordKow> LOL@that one
<LordKow> so in essence this version of xine should never be installable.
<Flare183> Umm, i'm trying to become a MOTU and I would like to know how I would go to find out if there are any packages that I need to fix/debianize/upload, etc. ?
<LordKow> unless libxine1-bin is not installed.. hmm
<geser> Flare183: if you look at the bugs you should find enough packages to fix :)
<Flare183> ok
<geser> Flare183: there is also a list of needs-packaging bugs
<Flare183> where at?
<Flare183> on lauchpad as well
<LordKow> looks like the ubuntu xine team meant for the xine version to be 1.1.8-4ubuntu3 not -3ubuntu3
<geser> yes, look for the needs-packaging tag
<LordKow> or  the control file was simply messed up
<geser> Flare183: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=needs-packaging
<Flare183> ok thanks
<LordKow> in debian control does "<<" mean less than?
<LordKow> or something like.. less than major version?
<LordKow> well time to compile xine-libs with a proper control file
<LordKow> in the end the binary packages conflict with each other due to a version mistake, generally.
<LordKow> if they did that intentionally i dont know why, because they should have just left them out of the repos then
<LordKow> i could see it being a milestone towards a newer version
<TheMuso> Ouch. arc builds are badly broken.
<TheMuso> sparc
<LordKow> yea today is not a good day for unbreaking things
<LordKow> in fact i think more packages are broken today than ever before in hardy's history heheh
<geser> TheMuso: yes, it's known
<TheMuso> Could somebody who has an AMD64 please have a look at the FTBFS report for the latest version of gnunet in hardy?
<TheMuso> geser: I thout as much.
<LordKow> sec
<TheMuso> thought
<TheMuso> damn cold fingers
<LordKow> TheMuso, is it in the repos right now?
<TheMuso> LordKow: Yes, and its a compilation error.
<LordKow> k
<TheMuso> I'd investigate if I had the hardware.
<LordKow> TheMuso, is there a bug report for it?
<Flare183> DEB Packages Generation of iFolder files ready for upload
<TheMuso> LordKow: No.
<TheMuso> I am just going through recent build failure emails.
<Flare183> anybody want to upload them to the repos?
<LordKow> k
<geser> TheMuso: cold fingers? shouldn't it be warm in australia now?
<LordKow> TheMuso, 0.7.2c-4ubuntu1 right?
<TheMuso> LordKow: The latest version in hardy
<StevenK> geser: Should be, isn't.
<Flare183> anybody?
<LordKow> /usr/bin/ld: /usr/lib/libdialog.a(formbox.o): relocation R_X86_64_32 against `a local symbol' can not be used when making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC
<geser> TheMuso: my guess is that dialog needs some -fPIC and a rebuild
<LordKow> yea :)
<LordKow> let me pass the cflag and see what happens
<TheMuso> Hrm.
<LordKow> er libdialog hm let me find the package
<geser> LordKow: you would need to build dialog with that first and the rebuild gnunet with that package
<geser> LordKow: dialog
<LordKow> k
<StevenK> Unless dialog is already -fPIC
<StevenK> But both gnunet and dialog need to be checke
<StevenK> checked
<geser> why should it complain then about libdialog.a?
<LordKow> StevenK, it is not
<Flare183> I have converted the iFolder RPM's to DEB files see bug 87122
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 87122 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] iFolder" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/87122
<LordKow> -g -Wall sometimes with -O2
<geser> !revu | Flare183
<ubotu> Flare183: REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<Flare183> oh ok
<LordKow> does O2 include -fPIC?
<LordKow> i hate gcc docs :P
<Flare183> sorry i forgot newbie motu
<StevenK> LordKow: Nope, -O2 is only optimization
<DaveMorris> LordKow: no
<StevenK> -O2 -funroll-all-loops -i-am-a-gentoo-ricer
<TheMuso> StevenK: lol
<Flare183> umm do I have to join the Ubuntu Universe Contributors Group team on launchpad?
<LordKow> haha i love those gentoo users with (word-wrap on) ~1 page of CFLAGS
<somerville32> Flare183, No one will force you
<LordKow> and they're wondering why they have a crapton of compiler errors and their system doesnt even boot
<Flare183> but do i have to in order to upload packages?
<LordKow> StevenK, ah okay. i thought -O2 was a meta flag for a bunch of others
<StevenK> Nope, just ricing
<pwnguin> Flare183: to revu, yes
<Flare183> ok
<StevenK> And then the Gentoo ricers end up with SIGILL and SEGVs every place
<LordKow> go gnunet go go
<LordKow> ah still working on those deps :) not even to build yet
<somerville32> bryce, I still don't see the catfish upload.
<pwnguin> Flare183: so im not exactly seeing the packages in that bug...
<Flare183> According to the wiki it says that i have to ask you'll to re-sync the REVU uploaders keyring
<Flare183> so can you'll do that please?
<pwnguin> Flare183: when you say "converted" im thinking of a specific process that MOTU likely won't accept. how did you make the packages?
<Flare183> pwnguin:> well they were in rpm format so i used alien to convert them into deb fomat
<pwnguin> doh
<Flare183> what?
<pwnguin> you have just failed the test =(
<TheMuso> LordKow: Thanks for your help in advance.
<Flare183> wow
<Flare183> and how?
 * TheMuso will join the amd64 crowd some day.
<pwnguin> MOTU deals with source packages
<pwnguin> alien deals with binary packages
<Flare183> ok doing that then
<pwnguin> revu takes source package uploads and compiles into a deb
<Flare183> i know
<Flare183> oh ok
<LordKow> does pbuilder make a build log anywhere? compiling dialog w/ -fPIC did not fix gnunet FTBFS but i cannot confirm that adding -fPIC in the rules actually took effect
<jpatrick> LordKow: I like to add "&> pbuilder.log" after pbuilder build.. to get a log
<LordKow> ah
<LordKow> yay for shell magic
<somerville32> Is DIF in effect yet?
<StevenK> Or | tee pbuilder.log
<bryce> somerville32: rats, ok I'll look into it.  Maybe there's another lever I have to pull.
<LordKow> brb
<TheMuso> Wow. I like the new dpkg-shlibdeps functionality, telling you if a library thats linked to your binary doesn't use its symbols.
<mok0> RainCT: I noticed set importance -> wishlist and added tag to my gpp4 needs-packaging report, thanks! Perhaps you will do the same to coot, clipper, mmdb and ssm? :-)
<TheMuso> brb
<nxvl_work> what is the feature freezy about?
<nxvl_work> i mean, whats the goal on this part of the circle
<Flare183> bug #153386
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 153386 in ubuntu "Please add PeaZip to Ubuntu" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/153386
<nxvl_work> add new features programming them or just adding new packages?
<RainCT> mok0: no problem :). sure, if there are that many I'll run two scripts I've for this :)
<mok0> RainCT: hehe, well that's it for now :-)
<StevenK> nxvl_work: The former, probably not the latter, and beginning stabilizing
 * Mahoru`Tsunemi is away: dodo
<Mahoru`Tsunemi> oyasumi nasai minna-san
<Flare183> Ok can someone resync the keyring?
<nxvl_work> StevenK: i don't understand :S
<mok0> RainCT: I have the packages in my ppa, but will upload to revu as soon as I finish my last merge
<RainCT> TheMuso: hey. do you have a moment to explain me how this checksum stuff goes?
<LordKow> drrr
 * RainCT had understood (probably wrong) that the tarball is uncompressed before checking
<LordKow> how can i add a package not in the repos to a pbuilder cache?
<LordKow> no wonder this isnt getting anywhere =p
<somerville32> LordKow, add it to the repos
<StevenK> nxvl_work: At this point in the cycle, we are going to work on implementing the Approved specifications, will probably not want to pull in many new packages, and will begin focusing on stabilizing
<RainCT> mok0: why not upload to Debian? :)
<Ubulette> RainCT, what about the checksum ?
<geser> LordKow: when I need to do this, I login into pbuilder and copy all needed files from outside into the pbuilder (it's a dir below /var/cache/pbuilder/build/) and build by hand
<geser> as I don't need it that often I didn't look yet for a better solution like setting up a local repo
<RainCT> bug 92939
<LordKow> well doesnt pbuilder keep a cache of packages?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 92939 in libowfat "[can-not-install] file overwrite error" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/92939
<nxvl_work> StevenK: what i don't understand/know is how are we going to implement the Approved specifications, by developing/changing the already merged/synced packages or adding new packages
<geser> LordKow: yes, it does
<LordKow> maybe i could sudo dpkg -i the custom package in the pbuilder environment, then when i log out it should be cached?
<LordKow> then whenever i do pbuilder clean it should remove it
<mok0> RainCT: Two reasons: first, I don't know any DDs, and I have gotten comfortable with the Ubuntu way of doing things. Second, Ubuntu is very popular with my colleagues, so I think it is more important to focus here first. I intend to try to get my packages into Debian at some later point, though.
<StevenK> nxvl_work: It could be either or both
<RainCT> Ubulette: if upstream published a .tar.bz2, will it have a different checksum each time it is converted to .tar.gz? or what is that comment (see ubotu above) about?
<nxvl_work> StevenK: as i understand we are going to change/adapt/modify the merged/synced ones
<tsmithe> persia, sorry, i've just returned to my computer, and have not enough backlog to see your answer, if there was any. sorry about any inconvenience
<Ubulette> RainCT, yes, so do it only once per upstream version
<RainCT> mok0: the first reason is no problem, just upload to mentors.debian.net and send a mail (you'll get a template for it) to the debian-mentors mailing list
<persia> tsmithe: I've lost context, and don't know to which question you refer.
<Ubulette> RainCT, 1st time, convert your tarball, then create your source package with -sa, then all the next ones (if any) with -si
<StevenK> nxvl_work: Right.
<nxvl_work> StevenK: so, whats the main item of the work now, testing and patching?
<RainCT> mok0: and about 2, you can request the package from Debian to be synced into Hardy, so it shouldn't be any problem either :)
<mok0> RainCT:  But we're in DIF now, right
<StevenK> nxvl_work: For universe, the main item of work should be bug fixing, and submitting those bugs to Debian
<persia> mok0: Yes, but that doesn't mean we can't request exceptions.
<RainCT> Ubulette: and why does it change, shouldn't it be the same if it's compressed again? :S
<LordKow> http://blog.madism.org/index.php/2006/06/27/93-pbuilder-custom-configurations <3 blogs
<mok0> When you say "upload to mentors.." is that using dput etc?
<LordKow> weird i cant ctrl+c pbuilder during unpacking of deps
<RainCT> mok0: yes, but it shouldn't be much of a problem, or at least I got packages synced in the late Gutsy cycle (not much before feature freeze)
<RainCT> mok0: yes, there instructions are on the website
<Ubulette> RainCT, did you just bunzip2+gzip or did you touch the inside tar too ?
<RainCT> s/there/the
<RainCT> Ubulette: the first
<Ubulette> RainCT, hmm. anyway, you never have to re-up a tarball again so checksum should never be a problem
<RainCT> mok0: if you want to get it trough REVU first I'm not telling you to don't do so, but getting it directly into Debian makes more sense to me
<mok0> So, I have a chain of dependencies (libraries).  I imagine it needs to be done from "the bottom"...
<mok0> RainCT: I see your point
<RainCT> Ubulette: the problem (?) is that it'll get into Debian some day.. see the comment in https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libowfat/+bug/92939
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 92939 in libowfat "[can-not-install] file overwrite error" [Medium,Incomplete]
<Ubulette> RainCT, oh, you're doing 0ubuntu1.. unless you convince debian to use your tarball, you're indeed looking for troubles
<tsmithe> persia, well, i'm off to bed; so i'll ask again tomorrow :)
<persia> tsmithe: Ask what?
<tsmithe> 1. if there are pdfs without sources in my package, do i have to remove them to comply with dfsg?
<tsmithe> 2. on revu for mscore: "11) Missing copyrights on the demos: they should be GPL or explicity PD"
<tsmithe> what makes you think they aren't copyright Werner Schweer, like most of the rest of the package?
<persia> tsmithe: 1) Yes for GPL 2) There's no documentation: it needs something
<persia> tsmithe: More for 2) is that most of the code has copyright attribution, and it would be good to tell users whether they can use the demos as a base for everything, or just GPL stuff.
<TheMuso> RainCT: What checksum stuff?
<tsmithe> also, persia, the "qm" files.. they aren't built from source, but they are in a l10n related dir, so maybe they are the sources? i'm not sure what they are
<TheMuso> RainCT: Oh that.
<TheMuso> RainCT: What do you not understand?
<mok0> Are there any important differences to be aware of when packaging for Debian vs. Ubuntu??
<tsmithe> persia, and how about the "mid" and font files?
<persia> tsmithe: They aren't built from source?  That's odd.  They are binary Qt translation files.  They should be built from source.
<imbrandon> persia: thats intresting ( re: pdf ) as most* of the pdf's i create ARE the source
<RainCT> TheMuso: why it gets a different checksum each time you compress it? (I just contacted Debian's maintainer, btw)
<RainCT> mok0: not that I'm aware of
<mok0> RainCT: Do you need to strip Ubuntu stuff from changelog?
<imbrandon> persia: i'm not doubting that is policy , but do you have any pointers that state that or should i google ?
<geser> imbrandon: how do you edit the PDFs?
<tsmithe> persia, well, they are just distributed like so in the clean upstream release
<imbrandon> geser: either with acrobat or nano
<RainCT> mok0: like what? didn't you say they are new packages?
<TheMuso> RainCT: Well, packages in Ubuntu?Debian use orig tarballs in .gz format. Once you bzip2 -d to decompress the .tar.bz2, and re-gzip it, the checksum is changed, and it is never the same if done more than once.
<geser> imbrandon: you can write PDFs with nano from scratch?
<nxvl_work> imbrandon: hi!
<persia> tsmithe: For .mid, I like using abcmidi or midge to generate them, but there are lots of different sequencers available with easy save formats.  I don't know much about fonts.
<imbrandon> geser: not 100% , i either create them in ps or acrobat
<nxvl_work> imbrandon: i was looking for you, this have been busy days
<mok0> RainCT: I am thinking of trying out with one of my packages that have already made it into Ubuntu
<imbrandon> nxvl_work: heya
<imbrandon> nxvl_work: yea busy days
<persia> imbrandon: In which case the ps would be the source
<imbrandon> persia: ps == photoshop
<imbrandon> in this case
<tsmithe> persia, but can i leave the shipped .mid files in there? (same goes for qm files and fonts)
<persia> imbrandon: confusing.  I tend to think of ps == postscript by default.
<mok0> RainCT: Then I could try uploading right away :-)
<RainCT> mok0: ah ok. this was discussed on the mailing list some days ago, and it isn't clear what to do..
<geser> imbrandon: then the photoshop file is the source or do you delete it after you created the PDF the first time and edit the PDF directly after that?
<nxvl_work> imbrandon: so, as now we are on debianFreezy and i have been working on merges, have you a new task?
<imbrandon> heh point is what about pdf ( espicialy now that its an iso standard ) that are creaed by scratch
<TheMuso> RainCT: So its important that if we push the new version into Ubuntu, that Debian has to use the same tarball.
<persia> tsmithe: You can leave all of it if you can reconstruct.  I know the archive admins complain about pdf files.  I don't know if they complain about fonts or midi files.
 * persia points at pdfedit as well
<RainCT> mok0: (remember to add a version-1 entry with "unstable" instead of hardy to the changelog)
<mok0> RainCT: I guess the Maintainer: field is different
<imbrandon> geser: well there normaly is no .psd created the way i do it, e.g. open ps, file->new doc  , create away, save ( as pdf )
<tsmithe> hmm, well, i think i'll leave everything, excepting the pdfs, and see what the archive admins say. i'll include copyright info as appropriate, of course.
<persia> imbrandon: How do you edit it later?
<RainCT> mok0: if it has any useful information I'd keep it. if it's just a "initial commit", drop it
<imbrandon> persia: open with acrobat / photoshop or nano
<RainCT> mok0: yep, it should be your name & mail
<imbrandon> depending on how much of a change i need to make
<CheGuevara> is the keyring in revu resynced at 12 GMT ?
<persia> tsmithe: That's easiest, but definitely plays on the possibility that the given archive admin doesn't know the preferred source format for something.
<imbrandon> persia: pdfs arent write only, only when viewed with a viewer are they read only
<imbrandon> err s/write/read
<mok0> RainCT: So, how will I communicate with the DDs? The IRC channel is completely inactive
<imbrandon> any editor should be able to edit any pdf
<imbrandon> just some make it easier
<persia> imbrandon: I just don't find it as easy as modifying SVG  or DocBook or the like, and recreating a PDF.
<geser> mok0: are you on the correct network?
<mok0> irc.oftc.net?
<imbrandon> persia: correct, its not easy , but doable, and some tools like acrobat make it easy
<persia> imbrandon: Anyway, I've seen the archive admins reject PDFs without source.
<RainCT> mok0: their IRC channel is on irc.oftc.net, but communication is primary by mail
<nxvl_work> i see 350 connected users on debian-devel
<imbrandon> persia: right, i dont doubt it , i was just wondering if there was exceptions in the cases where its verifiable that the pdf IS the source
<geser> mok0: yes, and I see activity in #debian-devel in the last hour
<imbrandon> kinda like CrystalSVG icon set the PNG is the source type thing
<persia> imbrandon: I don't know.
<imbrandon> persia: okies
<imbrandon> i would have never guessed pdfs wouldent be considered source, since like html they are mostly just markup
<nxvl_work> imbrandon: did you have a new task or should i continue with FTBFS?
<geser> imbrandon: if you can convince the archive-admins that you edit your PDFs with nano they should get accepted
<imbrandon> geser: i dont regularly but there are other floss tools too like gnupdf and pdfedit and commercial ones acrobat and photoshop that all create them natively
<geser> nxvl_work: it's still possible to merge but you need a reason now, like security fixes, important bug fixes, etc.
<imbrandon> but i have on ocassion :)
<imbrandon> nxvl_work: yea i would work on bug fixing from LP now and gettign to know LP and the sponsores queue intmately
<nxvl_work> geser: yes, but i as a mentee task isn't so active
<nxvl_work> imbrandon: i mean a new task for me :P
<imbrandon> nxvl_work: well honestly you are at the level you could probably pick your own tasks and just come to me for oversight if you dont know the proper way to see it to completion but i'd be happy to still come up with a "task" if you really wish'
<geser> nxvl_work: there is also NBS or unmet deps which needs fixing
<nxvl_work> geser: yep i'm working on them :D
<imbrandon> geser: yup thats what hes been doing the last weeks
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> brb one sec
<nxvl_work> imbrandon: i will be happy to recieve new task so i can put goals
<geser> nxvl_work: come back for the next task, when all unmet deps are fixed :)
<nxvl_work> heh
<nxvl_work> :D
<nxvl_work> does that happends ever?
<imbrandon> heh no
<geser> I didn't witness it till now
<imbrandon> nxvl_work: really you have worked with librarys normal packages, all the qa pages, lp, irc and bugmail, really now its just lots of practice
<nxvl_work> on saturday i will give a workshop and a quick talk about packaging here in peru
<nxvl_work> :D
<imbrandon> nice
<imbrandon> :)
<nxvl_work> imbrandon: ok, si i'm kind on my own putting goals?
<nxvl_work> if you think i'm ready, then i will give a try
<imbrandon> nxvl_work: yea really its at that point in the game :) but i'm still here for anything you have questions with along the way and such
<imbrandon> ( as are many of the rest of us as i'm sure youve seen ) hehe
<nxvl_work> i just want to know how to check for bugs, just picking packages and suscribing to them or browsing, or there is other ways, like category browsing on LP
<mok0> RainCT: Do I need to upload binary+source debs?
<imbrandon> nxvl_work: well some of the lower links on the qa page link to LP pages with patches and such, those are good to preuse
<imbrandon> peruse*
<imbrandon> like ...
<imbrandon> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=patch
<imbrandon> and
<imbrandon> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.status%3Alist=INPROGRESS&field.status%3Alist=FIXCOMMITTED&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_contact=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=&field
<imbrandon> wow
<imbrandon> thats a long url, but linked on the QA page
<RainCT> mok0: no, just dput the source
<mok0> RainCT: OK, good, I don't have a sid pbuilder
<geser> nxvl_work: an other task which needs to be done now (after DIF): monitor debian-devel-changes for interesting fixes (like security) and put them into hardy (sync or merge)
<nxvl_work> debian-devel-changes as in maillinglist?
<RainCT> mok0: http://mentors.debian.net/cgi-bin/maintainer-intro
<geser> nxvl_work: yes, or the webarchive or the RSS feed if you like them more
<mok0> RainCT: yeah, saw it, it says: "dput mentors cream_0.32-2_i386.changes"
<LordKow> TheMuso, im working on setup up a local repo since i test a lot of deps that are not in the repos yet
<nxvl_work> geser: i will take a look on them
<nxvl_work> thnx
 * nxvl_work hugs geser and imbrandon
<geser> nxvl_work: I've seen CVE fix on it right now: linux-ftpd-ssl and CVE-2007-6263
<ubotu> The dataconn function in ftpd.c in netkit ftpd (netkit-ftpd) 0.17, when certain modifications to support SSL have been introduced, calls fclose on an uninitialized file stream, which allows remote attackers to cause a denial of service (daemon crash) and possibly have unspecified other impact via some types of FTP over SSL protocol behavior, as demonstrated by breaking a passive FTP DATA connection in a way that triggers an error in the server's SSL_ac
<ember> bug #176175
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 176175 in linux-ftpd-ssl "Please merge linux-ftpd-ssl_0.17.18+0.3-9.1 into Hardy" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/176175
<geser> good
<TheMuso> LordKow: ok
<geser> ember: if you want to do the motu-swat team a favour, could you also check if other releases are also affected and prepare debdiffs?
<geser> ember: at least gutsy needs the fix but the other releases probably too
<LaserJock> heh, Google Summer of Code hits Bourne Ultimatum
<StevenK> LaserJock: Ponies!
<LaserJock> dude!
<LaserJock> I got *3* hours of sleep last night and my advisors want me to have a final report tomorrow morning
<LaserJock> it *ain't* gonna happen today
<LaserJock> on the other hand, if people have any good suggestions they are welcome to send them to me
<LaserJock> I'm almost half way done with the Ponies
<tsmithe> should my get-orig-source rule create the new tarball in the current directory or ..?
<ember> it affects gutsy geser
<ember> i'm checking others
<LaserJock> tsmithe: I think .. but I'm not positive
<mok0> RainCT: One package uploaded to Debian. Now, waiting for a sponsor... :-)
<Ubulette> tsmithe, yes, current, that's were the user will expect it
<tsmithe> Ubulette, ah but if a user is running, in the current package sources directory (which would have been extracted from the previous orig tarball), then they'd expect it to be where the previous tarball is/was; in ../
<Ubulette> tsmithe, and please, don't work in ../tmp, think about the poor users that will work in tmp.
<tsmithe> yes, i've changed that :)
<Ubulette> tsmithe, no, depends on what they use to build afterwards
<LaserJock> ah, but /tmp is so much fun
<LaserJock> ;-)
<tsmithe> hehe
<tsmithe> thing is, as LaserJock is a MOTU, i tend to err towards his advice, to store the file in ..
<tsmithe> even though i've just changed it to make it easier to just leave it in .
<StevenK> LaserJock: More so when /tmp is a RAM fs
<LaserJock> tsmithe: isn't that what Ubulette said?
<tsmithe> it is?
<tsmithe> "Ubulette> tsmithe, yes, current, that's were the user will expect it"
<LaserJock> oh wait
<LaserJock> current = . , I missed that
<tsmithe> StevenK, could you help me out?
<Nafallo> that's the whole idea why it's fun in the first place, right?
<LaserJock> tsmithe: *I* would expect it to be in .. as that's where the .orig.tar.gz goes, but . would work as well I guess
<LaserJock> tsmithe: personally I'd find some other packages that do that and see what they do or maybe ask persia
<Nafallo> ~/devel/results
<Nafallo> what are we talking about?
<tsmithe> the wiki examples tend to use ..
<tsmithe> that's what i'm sticking to, and i'll upload my new package like that, then go to bed
<LaserJock> Nafallo: where a get-orig-source rule should put the tarball
<Ubulette> .. may not be writable to the user while . sure is
<StevenK> tsmithe: Hum? Context?
<LaserJock> umm, .. should be writable
<LaserJock> if they've unpacked the source package
<tsmithe> StevenK, get-orig-source: do i want to store the new orig tarball in . or ..? i'm thinking .., which seems ever the more sensible to me
 * LordKow crosses fingers
 * LordKow pets gnunet
<Ubulette> debian policy says: "This target fetches the most recent version of the original source package from a canonical archive site (via FTP or WWW, for example), does any necessary rearrangement to turn it into the original source tar file format described below, and leaves it in the current directory. "
<StevenK> And how can you know .. is writable?
<Ubulette> ... "and leaves it in the current directory"
<tsmithe> Ubulette, oh ok
<tsmithe> if people call debian/rules get-orig-source in the directory of the package sources, then they're going to be cluttering up the sources dir, rather than the directory above where the orig tarball usually is
<tsmithe> that's all
<LaserJock> tsmithe: I agree, but debian policy is god so ...
<tsmithe> yep
<tsmithe> well, it's easy enough to change, just uncomment a "mv" in the makefile
<ember> geser:
<LordKow> TheMuso, gnunet builds properly if libdialog is built w/ -fPIC
<TheMuso> LordKow: How do you set up libdialog to build with -fPIC
<LordKow> TheMuso, one of the first few lines in rules
<TheMuso> LordKow: Could you be more specific please?
<LordKow> TheMuso, debian/rules: -CFLAGS = -g -Wall ; +CFLAGS = -g -Wall -fPIC
<LordKow> that will do it for ALL archs but that is fine
<TheMuso> LordKow: Ok thanks.
<LordKow> TheMuso, and thats dialog NOT gnunet
<LordKow> gnunet is fine
<TheMuso> LordKow: Yep I understand.
<LordKow> k
<TheMuso> LordKow: thanks for your help
<Nafallo> LaserJock: ah. I would expect .. :-)
<LordKow> TheMuso, np
<LordKow> yay fixed the libxine cluster___ for myself
<LordKow> i cannot code without music and what i use requires xine :)
<LordKow> <-- coded very angrily today
<LordKow> remove 5 packages for 1 upgrade, meh not happening. 2 of those packages i use
<tsmithe> new mscore upload ready for revuing ;) :: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=mscore
<tsmithe> persia recommended Standards-Version 3.7.3, so /me points finger about lintian messages (i'm not sure where to find out the current version other than other developers telling me)
<tsmithe> TheMuso, apachelogger, would you care to take a look?
<TheMuso> tsmithe: Will do as soon as I've finished what I'm doing here.
<tsmithe> thank you very much
<LaserJock> tsmithe: generally a good way to check for Standards-Version is to look at the version of debian-policy in the target release
<tsmithe> oh yes
<tsmithe> excellent, i'm off to bed :)
<LaserJock> tsmithe: that tells you the "current" version, but it's good to actually make sure you're meeting the policy
<tsmithe> why of course
#ubuntu-motu 2007-12-14
<LordKow> if debian broke their own policy and we merge, i wont fix it
<LordKow> others might :)
<LordKow> merge/sync
<LordKow> unless its something horrible in which case the merge/sync probably would not be done
<LaserJock> heh, Riddell's bzr 101 is pretty interesting reading :-)
<Fujitsu> z,cb 5
<Fujitsu> Oops.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: oh really?
<LaserJock> was that trying to be vim?
<Fujitsu> No, that was forgetting that I'm on a machine where my keyboard layout is Dvorak.
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> so /win 5 ?
<Fujitsu> Yes.
 * xstasi is away: Dangerous like a razorback - Deadly like a heart attack
<Fujitsu> xstasi: Please turn off that away message.
<xstasi`afk> Fujitsu, sorry, it was automatic, i'll remember it
<ember> how can i update shlibs with new symbols?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Fujitsu> Hi bddebian.
<bddebian> Heya Fujitsu
<pochu> 'night
<Fujitsu> ember: Please follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityUpdateProcedures when preparing security updates.
<Fujitsu> I note that you made a number of inappropriate changes, and that the changelog is incorrectly formatted.
<nixternal> yay for me...somehow I mucked up a tarball
<Fujitsu> nixternal: What gives you that idea?
<nixternal> archive spit it back at me calling me an idiot for not catching it
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<ember> Fujitsu: thanks for the info, fixing.
<Fujitsu> ember: Thanks.
<LaserJock> evening
<GoldenPony> Neighvening.
<LaserJock> GoldenPony: heh
 * StevenK chuckles
<TheMuso> Doe anybody happen to know whether there is PulseAudio v0.9.8 built against gutsy in someone's PPA?
<pwnguin> TheMuso: theres a search engine somewhere
<TheMuso> pwnguin: Hrm ok. I wasn't aware of that.
<pwnguin> or maybe just google with site:ppa.launchapd.net
<pwnguin> TheMuso: I can never find the engine, and its not very good
<pwnguin> im searching for packages, not repos =/
<TheMuso> right
<pwnguin> but maybe google has crawled it
<TheMuso> From doing a google search like that, I don't get anything other than a referenc to pulse in a package thats in my PPA.
<pwnguin>  heh
<pwnguin> doh
<pwnguin> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas
<TheMuso> Oh well, no big problem. I just thought someone may have had it. I'll just upload hardy's pulse to my ppa for gutsy and see what happens.
<pwnguin> fun times
<pwnguin> ive never had that not work, but i'd hate to see what can go wrong
<TheMuso> Anyway, I'll find out soon enough.
<crimsun> TheMuso: if you use the pulse alsa-lib plugin, you'll need to build hardy's alsa-plugins source, too.
<TheMuso> crimsun: Thanks for the heads up, but at this point, I don't think I'll need that.
<TheMuso> I am setting up packages for users on gutsy to test accessibility stuff for hardy, without them having to run hardy.
<crimsun> understood.  Alpha 2 desktop CD might be a better go.
<pwnguin> is it alpha 2 already?
<TheMuso> Yeah.
<TheMuso> A week.
<StevenK> Almost
<LaserJock> yeah, testing is always a pain that way
<pwnguin> man, i dont even have a new kernel yet =/
<persia> TheMuso: Are you working to get speech-dispatcher working through pulse?
<LaserJock> the people who you want to have testing your stuff are the people who don't want to use development code
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Yep, and one can understand why they don't.
<pwnguin> LaserJock: well, Ubuntu's policies are pretty much "don't bother"
<LaserJock> yeah
<TheMuso> And they don't often have a box that they can easily set up for testing dev stuff either.
<LaserJock> pwnguin: "don't bother"?
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Added to that, with accessibility fluctuating during the early stages of a dev release, theres no garentee they'll be able to recover from problems, since they can't see what they are doing.
<pwnguin> LaserJock: as in "dont use it unless you can recover from massive breakage"
<TheMuso> for blind people that is
<TheMuso> I'm lucky in that regard.
<LaserJock> TheMuso: very true, that's a good point
<pwnguin> the current topic for #ubuntu+1
<LaserJock> pwnguin: well, it's pragmatic, not policy
<pwnguin> "The home of Hardy  Heron and various breakage"
<persia> pwnguin: It's a matter that if it breaks, nobody promises to help you fix it, and if you can't tell what went wrong, even more so.
<pwnguin> I think in the end, usability testing just needs an office and testers =(
<LaserJock> it's not "our policy is to not let users test stuff", but rather "look, things are gonna break while we're developing"
<TheMuso> And hell, most of us don't even run dev releases, except on throw around boxes.
<TheMuso> I certainly don't.
<LaserJock> I only have chroots at the moment
<persia> TheMuso: Many developers seem to be on the dev release by Feature Freeze (although, yes, not all)
<TheMuso> persia: I am usually around FF, but not always.
<TheMuso> But having several boxes that I can install the dev release on, allows me to do real world testing without sacrificing data.
<TheMuso> and being able to actually do stuff.
<pwnguin> but it's certainly a hole in the process. user files bug against stable version, dev applies patch and asks if it's fixed in dev version
<persia> pwnguin: See the spec about bugfix verification
<pwnguin> well huzzah
 * emgent hi
<LaserJock> hmm, does Launchpad *not* have direction on how to push a branch to LP?
<LaserJock> oh, I guess if you go to a specific branch it does
<jdong> LaserJock: don't you have to push a branch in the first place to create one of those pages? :D
<LaserJock> well yes, but in this case the branch already existed so it worked
<LaserJock> but there are a lot of pages extolling the virtues of bzr but nothing that actually said how to push an initial branch
<crimsun> well, there's the man page for bzr.  Some may not consider it so friendly...
<LaserJock> well, I was more thinking the proper URL
<TheMuso> I've found the bzr manpage great.
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> there's even bzr help lp
<LaserJock> bzr help launchpad that is
<TheMuso> wow
<bddebian> *cough*
<crimsun> yes, that's in the man page.
 * LaserJock hands bddebian  a lozenge
<jml> LaserJock: where was the first place you looked to try to figure it out?
<jml> LaserJock: (tell me so I can put some instructions there)
<cheguevara> http://pastebin.ca/raw/815486
<cheguevara> does this look good
<cheguevara> ignoring the / lines
<bddebian> LaserJock: :-)
<LaserJock> jml: umm, code.launchpad.net
<LaserJock> help.launchpad.net
<jml> how... obvious :)
<jml> LaserJock: did you look in the Help tab on code.launchpad.net?
<LaserJock> jml: that was my hope
<LaserJock> jml: no I didn't
<jml> LaserJock: fair enough, it's kind of small and easy to miss.
<LaserJock> my LP experience is that the help tab is pointless and annoying
<LaserJock> actual content could turn that around though
<jml> LaserJock: well, there is actual content on the code.lp.net help tab. the trick is having content everywhere, I guess.
<LaserJock> jml: hmm, how handy
<jml> LaserJock: but the short answer is 'bzr push lp:~user/project/branchname'
<jml> (if you've got 1.0rc2 or higher)
<naaraxi> mhh list command not working atm , anyone know an ANSI C specialized channel ? :)
<LaserJock> yeah, I read something about that in bzr help launchpad
<jml> and bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~user/... otherwise.
<jml> LaserJock: I added that help text just recently :)
<naaraxi> thanks anyway . see ya's
<naaraxi>  /quit
<tritium> Hi all.  I've been inactive for some time, due to my job, but I wanted to let you all know that the U.S. New Mexico LoCo is considering a packaging jam, and might want some tutors, if possible.
<LaserJock> tritium: sweet
<tritium> LaserJock: :)
<LaserJock> tritium: fly me down there ;-)
<tritium> LaserJock: believe it or not, I had already thought of that.
<tritium> We'll look into it.
<LaserJock> lol
<tritium> seriously
<LaserJock> it'd be fun
<LaserJock> I was supposed to fly down to Vegas at some point for Ubuntu NV
<LaserJock> but I don't know that that is ever gonna happen
<ajmitch> LaserRock the MOTU superstar
<tritium> hi ajmitch :)
<StevenK> LaserJock: Ponies!
<LaserJock> ajmitch: only in desert areas
<ajmitch> hi
<tritium> ajmitch: I'm not sure we can afford tickets from NZ ;)
<ajmitch> I wouldn't accept anyway :)
<ajmitch> there are many, many more competent people
<LaserJock> party pooper
<tritium> ajmitch: pfft
<tritium> ajmitch: not even to see your old pal tritium?  ;)
<ajmitch> doing anything ubuntu-related is beyond me now
<tritium> How so, ajmitch?
<ajmitch> no time/interest
<bddebian> But then I''ve lost my hero :'-(
<tritium> Me too!
<bddebian> Of course I can still blame tritium for getting me into this mess ;-P
<tritium> bddebian: yay, I love being a scapegoat!  :)
<bddebian> tritium: Seriously, wasn't it you that gave me a package to work on first?
 * bddebian is old and has a failing memory
<tritium> Ubuntu 23.10, the Scary Scapegoat will be named for me ;)
<tritium> bddebian: yes, it was me
<bddebian> haha
<tritium> I'm glad you remember me
<bddebian> :-)
<tritium> ajmitch: please say it isn't so...
<ajmitch> ?
<tritium> No interest?
<ajmitch> pretty much, why?
<ajmitch> I've done maybe a couple of uploads in the last several months
<tritium> just sad to hear that
<ajmitch> I'm only around here for entertainment value at this stage
 * GoldenPony pokes ajmitch for entertainment
<ajmitch> like that
<tritium> shoot, I'm out of one-dollar bills
<bddebian> Hanging out in the girly bars again? :)
 * RAOF mocks the US for having $1 paper money
<DarkMageZ> RAOF, now now... that'd be hypocritical. you and your 1 dollar coins being bigger than your 2 dollar coins.
<ajmitch> back soon, time to walk home in this 'summer' weather
<DarkMageZ> RAOF, if you wish to mock them there are better reasons.
 * bddebian looks outside at the ice hanging on the trees
<RAOF> DarkMageZ: Ok, I'll pay you that.
<mneptok> RAOF: the US has dollar coins, too
<MagicFab> hi - where / how should I propose an interesting piece of software to be pacakfed in Ubuntu ?
<mneptok> MagicFab: fing a victim^H^H^H^H^H^Hvolunteer here
<MagicFab> Specifically, Rivendell http://www.rivendellaudio.org
<TheMuso> I'd guess that it hasn't been packaged due to some licensing reason, as I'm sure many others out there would have wanted to get it into Debian/Ubuntu.
 * persia looks at the licensing in hopes of there being an easy workaround
<MagicFab> I see several attempts at Debian packages, no word of licensing problems
<MagicFab> No mention of it in debian legal either
 * persia doesn't understand the point of upstream including patches in debian/patches
<Fujitsu> Eww.
<persia> MagicFab: I don't see any glaring reasons why it can't be packaged, although it's a complex package, and I'd hope upstream could be convinced to drop debian/ from their source download (.tar.gz)
<persia> MagicFab: If you're up for packaging it directly, may as well prepare a candidate.  If not, you might want to open a needs-packaging bug.
<MagicFab> persia, I can't even package my lunch, let alone anything for Ubuntu. But I can log the bug. Do you have an example ?
<persia> MagicFab: Bug #176272.  For extra points, mention the license, a short blurb about what the software does, and whether any additional packages will need to be done beforehand in the decsription.  Be sure to add the "needs-packaging" tag so it appears in searches.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 176272 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Freeverb3" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/176272
<MagicFab> I see "needs-packaging" in the summary too. Is that also suggested ?
<persia> MagicFab: Lots of people seem to do that.  It means it shows up for summary searches as well as tag searches.  On the other hand, the canned searches that most packagers use to pick candidates use the tags.
<MagicFab> nevermind, I see a lot like that
 * persia especially doesnt like the upstream debian/ because they fail to do http://rivendell.tryphon.org/wiki/index.php/Install_under_Debian in postinst, and stops looking at the source.
<MagicFab> persia, actually there are Ubuntu packages: http://rivendell.tryphon.org/wiki/index.php/Install_Rivendell_on_Ubuntu
<cheguevara> hmm uploaded a package to REVU, but seems like it went from incomming to /dev/null :P
<persia> MagicFab: In that case, you might one to poke on of the KRDT folks to try to get them into the archive (thereby closing your bug).
<MagicFab> that's the plan :)
<MagicFab> What URL could I point them to to start that process ?
<persia> !revu
<ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<persia> MagicFab: Yep.  That'd be the one.
<MagicFab> Great! Thank you.
<persia> MagicFab: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO/NewSoftware might also be useful
<MagicFab> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/176278
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 176278 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Rivendell (radio broadcast automation)" [Undecided,New]
<persia> MagicFab: Nevermind.  Things keep moving: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages seems to point to both those places, and have a good overview as well.
<persia> Does anyone have any recommendations for workflow if there is interest in bringing a package on mentors.d.o into Ubuntu?
<joejaxx> persia: imbrandon asked about that before
<joejaxx> i do not think anyone had any suggestions
<persia> joejaxx: Do you happen to remember what people said?
<joejaxx> maybe look at the package
<joejaxx> and see what work needs to be don finished etc
<joejaxx> done*
<joejaxx> this came up when i asked about debian upstream source packages
<joejaxx> people told me to review the package and if it was of quality just change the name
<joejaxx> which too me seems like not giving credit
<persia> joejaxx: Sure.  If a package is to be modified, the path is clear: once it gets Ubuntu versioning, if NEW, it belongs in REVU.  I was just wondering about a case where a sync might be possible.
<joejaxx> so i did not bother with uploading that package
<joejaxx> persia: yeah
<joejaxx> that was imbrandons case
<joejaxx> i do not thnik anyone commented on that one
<persia> joejaxx: "Change the name" doesn't seem right.  If modifying, I'd put the mentors.d.o maintainer in XBSC-Original-Maintainer, and proceed as with any other variation.
<joejaxx> persia: that was my case :) not imbrandons
<joejaxx> :)
<joejaxx> sorry about the confusion
<joejaxx> mine was "packaging" a debian source package already created from an upstream project
<persia> joejaxx: No confusion.  I was just clarifying my position as you'd said you "did not bother with uploading that package".
<joejaxx> his was sync from mentors.d.o
<joejaxx> oh ok
<persia> joejaxx: Hrm.  Maybe that's different.  I usually have no concerns when wiping upstream debian/, but mentors.d.o debian/ likely represents something close to an eventual debian/ in Debian.
<joejaxx> yeah
<joejaxx> that is true
<imbrandon> hrm
<imbrandon> quiet night
<persia> imbrandon: You could have a festival if you like: there's nothing else scheduled :)
 * GoldenPony makes some noise.
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> man i think my employer made a grave mistake
<imbrandon> i was just reading over my contract
<persia> imbrandon: That's the purpose of employers: else you'd have little to do.
<imbrandon> well i was reading the compensaition part, and it lists ( in the signed contract ) about 12 x what was verbaly said
<tritium> imbrandon: what mistake?
<imbrandon> thus i *think* they said X a month vs what they ment of X a year
<persia> imbrandon: Excellent.  Complain for a couple months, take a couple years pay, and finish the move you had planned (and get yourself a computer)
<imbrandon> lol
<tritium> heh
<LaserJock> imbrandon: that's a pretty big mistake
<LaserJock> I wish my employer and the payroll people would make that kind of mistake
<LaserJock> then I'm probably be making what some industry chemists make
<tritium> imbrandon: if that's the case, I'll let you treat to Jack Stack when we go!
<imbrandon> :)
<LaserJock> \o/
<RAOF> Man, everyone loves arguing about mono, don't they.
<LaserJock> I sure do
<LaserJock> </sarcasm>
<Burgundavia> RAOF: got the link this time?
<persia> Burgundavia: ubuntu-devel-discuss@
<RAOF> And ubuntuforums.  And a launchpad specification.  And a bug report, I think, but I may be  making that last one up.
<RAOF> (17.44.58|! --QUIT--)) TomaszD with: "Leaving"
<persia> RAOF: I'm fairly certain you're making the last one up: I remember the person complaining about spec advertisement on #u-d
 * RAOF wonders how he managed to paste that with irssi :(
<persia> RAOF: X buffer?
<Burgundavia> persia: there is a reason I unsubscribed from that list
<persia> Burgundavia: Sure, but it should be enough info for you to find an archive (you asked)
<Burgundavia> I am looking now and sighing
<RAOF> Good, innit.
<Burgundavia> the only point I will concede is that 48 mb for two apps is a lot
<Burgundavia> but there is the missing point that shipping mono means people can target mono apps on ubuntu and know that the deps are there
<persia> Burgundavia: Sure, but we don't provide that level of integration for haskell or Erlang, which I think was the point (note that I don't have an opinion either way)
<Burgundavia> haskell and erlang are not language people are writing lots of GNOME and GTK apps in
<Burgundavia> I see your strawman and raise you one point of realworld
<persia> Burgundavia: Well, there are glade bindings...
<Burgundavia> bindings != apps
<Burgundavia> there are perl and php gtk bindings as well
<Burgundavia> I think I can count on one hand all the perl and php gtk apps
<persia> PHP?
<Burgundavia> php apps that use gtk, not php in general
<Burgundavia> for that matter, there are not many Java GTK apps either
<LaserJock> there's lots of languages out there
<LaserJock> Ruby and Java being a couple big ones we don't have by default
<Burgundavia> http://www.cliki.net/Gtk
 * persia notes there are more ocaml apps in universe than ruby apps
<LaserJock> I don't think "we're gonna put it on the CD because we like the language" has worked for us in the past
<LaserJock> i.e. python
<Burgundavia> persia: if you take that and compare against usage you migth get a different stroy
<Burgundavia> not to mention that the most used Ruby app, RoR, is not packaged
<persia> Burgundavia: rails is packaged.
<Burgundavia> right you are
<Burgundavia> I was thinking of some of the python web frameworks
<imbrandon> what about apps that embed ruby scripting , like amarok :) heh
<persia> django is packaged (but maybe others aren't yet)
<warp10> Hi all!
<Burgundavia> anyway, we have diverted from our original discussion about shipping a binding because there are lots of apps
<LaserJock> I think it comes down to apps, mostly regardless of what they are written in
<imbrandon> we do it with python, i dont see the problem with mono, givien monos status in the gnome world too
<persia> Burgundavia: Right.  I thought diversion was the point.  I at least don't really care, but believe that the ML discussion is caused by people paying attention to bindings instead of apps.
<LaserJock> imbrandon: we ditched much of the python stuff though
<imbrandon> LaserJock: not all, python is still in the default install
<persia> LaserJock: We did?  I thought we still used python-by-default for all the little scripty gui things.
<LaserJock> python is installed by default of course
<LaserJock> as it is on OS X and almost all other *nix
<LaserJock> but we used to have tons of python libraries and development-related packages
<LaserJock> Mark wanted Ubuntu to be *the* python development platform
<LaserJock> but we dropped a lot of that when we ran out of room
<LaserJock> and we didn't really get an return
<LaserJock> people can easily install development stuff from Universe
<LaserJock> while we'll still on 1 CD I can't imagine us specifically shipping a language development platform
<imbrandon> yea i really dont see us being on a 1-cd many more releases
<imbrandon> 1-dvd
<slytherin> I need help with quilt. I have used dpatch to generate patches where it allows to edit files in a chroot. How to do the same in quilt?
<slytherin> I am trying to fix FTBFS for batik. I want opinion on a certain approach. Is it ok if I build it with reduced functionality to make it build with free java (gcj)?
<LaserJock> slytherin: will it work with IcedTea?
<slytherin> LaserJock: No. There are some classes which depend on sun specific apis. These apis are not available even in icedtea.
<slytherin> That is why I am asking if it is ok to build with reduced functionality.
<imbrandon> IceTea is sun, just sun java7, so i assume you mean java6 specific api's
<LaserJock> imbrandon: it doesn't have *everything* as far as I understand it
<imbrandon> LaserJock: but its still "sun"
<imbrandon> :)
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> but I assumed he meant Sun specific apis that haven't been implemented in IcedTea yet
<imbrandon> right and i was correcting it so no assumptino was needed
<LaserJock> well, that could still be sun 7 though, right?
<LaserJock> it's not necessarily sun6
<imbrandon> huh?
<LaserJock> I don't know why I'm arguing this, I know very little about Java stuff :-)
<LaserJock> as I understood it sun 7 != IcedTea exactly
<imbrandon> ahh icetea == what will be sun7
<imbrandon> e.g. icetea is kinda beta
<imbrandon> its like sun 6.5 hehe
<LaserJock> well, I thought there was actually differences still
<imbrandon> no , icetea is a pre-release of sun7
<LaserJock> hmm
<imbrandon> so sun7 will be "more" but not diffrent
<LaserJock> I read something about Iced Tea not having implemented everything yet
<slytherin> imbrandon: LaserJock: No the apis I am referring to are only shipped in Sun JRE. Check second paragraph on this page, http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.3/docs/guide/2d/api-jpeg/com/sun/image/codec/jpeg/JPEGImageEncoder.html
<LaserJock> so there was still sun-specific stuff in their sun7
 * Mahoru`Tsunemi is back: dodo ( 9:07:58 )
<LaserJock> I give up cause I really don't have a leg to stand on ;-)
<slytherin> So the apis in question are not core java apis. so even icedtea will not have them in future.
 * slytherin goes for lunch
<LaserJock> slytherin: well, the question is how important this functionality is
<LaserJock> we have sun java so you *can* build from that
<imbrandon> slytherin: are you sure its not in icedtea, looks like it is according to a patch on the openjdk ml
 * imbrandon digs more
<imbrandon> slytherin: http://icedtea.classpath.org/hg/icedtea?cmd=changeset;node=2989dbf0b643
<jml> hmm. the 'lisp' binary doesn't seem to be managed by alternatives.
<slytherin> imbrandon: Thanks for that link. I will try to build with icedtea.
<imbrandon> slytherin: np
<slytherin> imbrandon: I slight problem. Looks like at least one of the class is stub. So does it make sense to build it?
<imbrandon> all i can say is try it
<slytherin> imbrandon: Ok. Will let you know in half hour.
<LaserJock> imbrandon: is Saturday going to be ok for the SRU meeting?
<imbrandon> LaserJock: sounds good to me
<imbrandon> what time?
<LaserJock> what was in the email? 21:00?
<imbrandon> yea
<LaserJock> I think that'll work
<LaserJock> I'm  kinda busy getting ready to leave for Christmas vacation
<LaserJock> but the meeting should be pretty short
<LaserJock> should be just intros, plan of attack for existing SRUs, solidifying policy, edit wiki
<imbrandon> yea
<LaserJock> the TB has pretty much said what they wanted
<LaserJock> and I think everybody pretty much agrees that "Same as Main SRU" is good with the only exception I'd like to see is requiring 2 acks instead of just one
<imbrandon> why? there is only 5 of us heh
<imbrandon> i dont think makign it any harder than main is really good
<DarkMageZ> yeah. but it's easier to get motu ack's than main ack's right?
<imbrandon> DarkMageZ: motu ack != sru ack
<DarkMageZ> universe sru ack* vs main sru ack*
<imbrandon> DarkMageZ: point is one ack from the sru team should be good enough, if we have issues with that something else is wrong
<imbrandon> just as with main
<LaserJock> yeah, that is a good point
<LaserJock> we really don't need to make this more difficult than need be
<LaserJock> as long as MOTU SRU is on the same page as to what constitutes an SRU we should be good
<imbrandon> yup
<DarkMageZ> omgs new xchat versions... SRU =D
<imbrandon> and if not i'm confident that being a member of the sru team or MOTU for that matter have the ability to ask when they are iffy about it
<LaserJock> too bad we don't get to handle the gimp SRU request ;-)
<imbrandon> lol
<slangasek> bluekuja: why does fische list only i386 and amd64 as archs?
<imbrandon> zomg , flashplugin-nonfree STILL isnt built on all arches ( hell its only on 3 arches )
<imbrandon> this is nuts
<DarkMageZ> gnash :P
<slytherin> imbrandon: batik doesn't build even in icedtea. :-(
 * white waves to Fujitsu 
<imbrandon> slytherin: then i guess you only have one option
<imbrandon> heya white
<white> imbrandon: i never got the url ;)
<slytherin> imbrandon: what?
<imbrandon> white: ahh yes, i did some more updates to it, not quite ready
<geser> good morning
<white> imbrandon: take your time ;)
<imbrandon> slytherin: use gcj
<imbrandon> ( or icetea with the same patches )
<slytherin> imbrandon: And don't build the things which depend on sun specific classes right?
<imbrandon> without looking yes
<slytherin> imbrandon: Ok. For that I will need to create a patch for build.xml and I need help with quilt. :-D
<LaserJock> morning dholbach and geser
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> heya LaserJock, hey geser
<geser> Hi LaserJock, dholbach
<dholbach> how are you guys doing?
<dholbach> Kubuntu Tutorials Day yesterday was AWESOME
<slytherin> dholbach: hi, after long time. :-)
<dholbach> hey slytherin
<dholbach> lots of energy yesterday, lots of people, lots of good questions
<dholbach> I expect we'll have more Kubuntu folks in here in the near future :)
<imbrandon> bring em on
<imbrandon> :)
<LaserJock> dholbach: excellent
<LaserJock> I had a look at JRs bzr session
<imbrandon> moins dholbach
<dholbach> hey imbrandon, hey ogra
 * pochu waves
<_evo1> hey
<_evo1> i would like to help develop ubuntu, where can i start?
<LucidFox> _evo1> You could start by filing bug reports in Launchpad, and translating packages
<LucidFox> If you want to learn deb packaging, you can consult the Ubuntu packaging guide: http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
<_evo1> LucidFox: ok thanks man
<markvandenborre> I know this is not motu, but I feel like I might have encountered a bug in nautilus, and I'm not sure how to troubleshoot it
<markvandenborre> very frequent random lockups
<markvandenborre> is the symptom, but I find it hard to look for log files, or make error reporting more verbose
<markvandenborre> any thoughts, hints, ideas?
<LucidFox> markvandenborre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus ;)
<markvandenborre> more appropriate channels to ask?
<markvandenborre> LucidFox, I'll go through some more of that
<LucidFox> #ubuntu is more appropriate, I think :)
<dholbach> markvandenborre: #ubuntu-desktop might help too
<markvandenborre> dholbach, will have a look
<txwikinger2> Morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey txwikinger2
<markvandenborre> btw, dholbach , do you know anyone who would be interested in leading a somewhat high profile packaging jam in the Brussels area, in the beginning of march timeframe?
<markvandenborre> then please mail me...
<markvandenborre> have to go from here now...
<dholbach> markvandenborre: ok, will think about it
<markvandenborre> dholbach, thanks and bye
<slytherin> need a bit help with quilt.
<slytherin> There are already 2 patches in debian/patches directory but there is no series file. I want to add a third patch, how do I proceed?
<slytherin> I am getting following error when try to create a new patch using quilt, Nothing in patch 03_fix_ftbfs.patch. Please help
<slytherin> Is there no one who can help me with quilt? Please I want to finish this today. :-(
<imbrandon> never used quilt in my life, google or the quilt man pages might help
<dholbach> slytherin: try asking lool in #ubuntu-desktop
<dholbach> he's the quilt king
<slytherin> dholbach: Ok. Thanks.
<dholbach> if you get a good answer, it might be worth adding it to http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems
<slytherin> will do
<slangasek> slytherin: how are you trying to create it?
<slytherin> slangasek: I am trying to follow a pdf found on net. I did 'quilt new patchname' then 'quilt add filename' and then 'quilt edit filename'. But after finishing editing when I do 'quilt refresh' I get error
<slangasek> have you tried just editing the filename with your editor, instead of "quilt edit filename"?
<slangasek> I've never used "quilt edit", and it's certainly not required if you've done "quilt add" already
<slangasek> so it may make some conflicting assumptions
<slytherin> slangasek: I will try. The basic problem is that there is no series file in patches/ even though there are two patches. So I need to sort that out first.
<slangasek> hmm
<slangasek> I would expect that to be populated by 'quilt refresh'
<tarzeau> hi
<tarzeau> some hardy stats http://krum.ethz.ch/ubuntu/ddc/hardy/
<TuxCrafter> hello everybodu
<TuxCrafter> apt-cache show ttf-linux-libertine
<TuxCrafter> the above command does not return anything on my computer is this normal?
<imbrandon> TuxCrafter: if its not in the apt-cache yes
<TuxCrafter> imbrandon: so some packages just don't have a discription?
<imbrandon> no it means the package dosent exist
<imbrandon> your likely looking for linux-libertine
<imbrandon> apt-cache show linux-libertine
<TuxCrafter> imbrandon: ah ok
<imbrandon> :)
<TuxCrafter> i was looking for the liberation fonts :-p
<DarkMageZ> anyone interested in a amarok 2 source package that builds and works on hardy?
<imbrandon> DarkMageZ: sure ( and nixternal works on that quite a bit too )
<DarkMageZ> i'll upload it then
<imbrandon> DarkMageZ: and the fellas in #kubuntu-devel
<TuxCrafter> imbrandon: thanks for the information
<imbrandon> DarkMageZ: just as easy to attach a debdiff to the bug
<imbrandon> and request a sponsor
<DarkMageZ> imbrandon, requires a new svn snapshot :P
<imbrandon> ok ... still good to work with the kubuntu guys and pkg-kde guys on it, i'm certain they would welcome the help
<imbrandon> hrm is there an API for gpg ? e.g. i want to verify the sig on a file from a program and want to avoid calling "gpg --verify <file>|grep Good" or similar
<dholbach_> python-gnupginterface?
<victor_> imbrandon: "gpgme"
<imbrandon> dholbach: heh cept its not python :)
<imbrandon> ( i'm actualy doing some c# code )
<mruiz> hi all
<SWAT> I'm building a couple of packages and once is a dependency of the other. Since it's not in the repo's, cowbuilder can't find it. How can I 'manually' add a dependency like this?
<mruiz> dholbach, did you enjoy your session?
<dholbach> mruiz: yeah, the Kubuntu Tutorials Day was awesome
<dholbach> lots of energy, lots of good people, it was great
<dholbach> I guess we'll see a bunch of Kubuntu MOTUs soon ;-)
 * txwikinger2 puts his name on that list :)
<mruiz> dholbach, great
<mruiz> I was reading the hardy changelog and I noticed that many kde packages were updated yesterday :-)
<SWAT> since KDE has a lot of updates, a lot of packages need to be updated ;)
<mruiz> SWAT, hahaha
 * Hobbsee waves
<txwikinger2> Hi Hobbsee
<zul> morning
<mruiz> morning zul
<ScottK> morning zul and mruiz
<dholbach> MOTU Q&A session in 6 minutes in #ubuntu-classroom
<zul> hi ScottK and mr_pouit
<zul> doh...mruiz
<dholbach> hey zul, hey ScottK
<zul> hey dholbach
<ScottK> hola dholbach
<dholbach> comment Ã§a va? :)
<zul> ca va bien et toi?
<dholbach> merci beacoup... je suis un peu fatiguÃ© mais Ã§a va bien
<zul> bien bien
<dholbach> :-)
<zul> its merci buckets btw :)
 * dholbach exhausted his french skills :)
<persia> s/merci/mercy/
<zul> dholbach: try getting stuck in quebec with only high school french
<dholbach> zul: I guess that'd surely help :)
<mruiz> hi ScottK
<dholbach> a deadly struggle for survival :)
<persia> zul: That's quebeÃ§ois: a slightly different language :)
<ScottK> persia: IME it's no more different than some of the regional variations in France.
<zul> dholbach: especially when you have to go the bathroom
<persia> ScottK: Likely true, but there are names for those as well.
<cheguevara> dholbach, can i ask you about a problem I have with REVU
<dholbach> cheguevara: just ask in here - we have a few REVU admins in here
<cheguevara> basically my package appears in incomming
<cheguevara> then goes to /dev/null :P
 * Hobbsee has a look
<Hobbsee> cheguevara: what did you last upload?
<Hobbsee> and is LI Daobing here?
<cheguevara> ktorrent-kde4
<Hobbsee> cheguevara: are you in ubuntu-universe-contributors?
<cheguevara> https://launchpad.net/~che-guevara-3
<Hobbsee> and is David Cordero here?
<cheguevara> seem to be
 * Hobbsee resyncs the keyring
<cheguevara> someone said it was done at 12 midnight, so I thought it'd be done
<cheguevara> may be someone was wrong :P
 * Fujitsu innovates, resyncing the Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> yeah, i dont think it is cron
 * Hobbsee writes Fujitsu off
<persia> cheguevara: I usually gets done at least once a day, but not at any fixed time (as far as I know)
<persia> s/I/It/1
<cheguevara> oh, right
<cheguevara> wiki said its cron :P
<persia> cheguevara: It once was :)
<Hobbsee> it was on cron.
<cheguevara> Hobbsee, should i try again now?
<persia> dholbach: deleting in cron is maybe not ideal.  Perhaps forcibly rejecting in process_uploads would make more sense.
<Hobbsee> cheguevara: no
<persia> cheguevara: It takes about half an hour
<cheguevara> oh lol
<cheguevara> let me know :P
<dholbach> persia: I didn't look at the source code, just assumed that there must be a graceful solution to this
<persia> dholbach: There likely is: I just don't think it's delete.
<dholbach> ok
<Hobbsee> cheguevara: that shoudl be accepted now
<cheguevara> right lets try
<gpocentek> anyone familiar with aptpkg-perl?
<gpocentek> I can't find a way to update the cache...
<stani> persia: are you here?
<persia> stani: Yes
<cheguevara> Hobbsee, it worked!
<Hobbsee> :)
 * cheguevara bows to the Long Pointy Stick
<cheguevara> thanks
<stani> persia: two people tested the patch on hardy and confirmed it works
<stani> so I was wondering when I could post a SRU request
<stani> also Luca asked two change two things
<stani> I was wondering if you agree with them
<persia> stani: I'd suggest listening to Luca, who is a member of the stable release updates team for universe.  If you've two testers, it sounds like you're close.
<stani> Ok, I'll follow his instructions. I just wanted to check with you.
<persia> stani: No problems.  I'm really not the best person to ask about SRUs, but happy to point you in the right direction :)
<RainCT> Heya
<stani> persia: Your helpful attitude was really stimulating. So a big thanks to you!
<persia> stani: Thanks for looking after your package downstream.  It's really appreciated when we have such direct communication with the software authors to ensure the best user experience.
<RainCT> dholbach: hi. revision ubuntu2 on bug 176147 is to update the maintainer field as it wasn't changed in ubuntu1 (the Homepage field move is just a secondary change which of course I wouldn't expect to be merged for if the change from ubuntu1 is added to Debian's version)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 176147 in usbmount "Update maintainer field in version 0.0.14.1" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/176147
<dholbach> RainCT: ah ok, I see
<bddebian> Heya gang
<DarkSun88> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya DarkSun88
<DarkSun88> :)
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi geser
<effie_jayx> hello all...
<bddebian> Hello effie_jayx
<effie_jayx> bddebian, I am merging today...
<effie_jayx> what ? I still don't know
<mok1> Hi effie_jayx, are you on schedule? :-)
<effie_jayx> packages in MoM look too big for this little grasshoper
<effie_jayx> mok1,  Trying hard to catch up
<mok1> effie_jayx: My procedure for computing the length of a project: make your best estimate, then multiply by the number pi.
<bddebian> hah
<effie_jayx> mok1,  sounds like a good way
<mok1> Always turns out to be pretty good :.-)
<effie_jayx> mok1,  you mean gantt like ?
<effie_jayx> I was a bit lazy I must admit :D
<effie_jayx> but thing is I am traveling to conferences and It is crazy
<mok1> effie_jayx: yes, except  I always have the gant chart in my head
<effie_jayx> mok1,  cool :D
<effie_jayx> I shall play around with gant later
<mok1> effie_jayx: it would be cool if you published a gant chart :-D
<mok1> effie_jayx: I dunno if it counts as MOTU-hopeful experience, but I made my first Debian upload yesterday...
<effie_jayx> mok1, pretty big milestone :O
<mok1> effie_jayx: well, it's only _my_ upload, I'm still waiting for a sponsor. When the package gets into Debian, I will call it a milestone...
<mruiz> mok1, every step is important ;-)
<mok1> mruiz: Ah, true
<mok1> I have to admit, I've been holding back on that step
<effie_jayx> mok1,  why?
<mok1> effie_jayx: I've felt I had my hands full just learning to work with Ubuntu
<mok1> ... and now I'm kinda happy to chat with the nice bunch of people I've gotten to know here on the channel
<effie_jayx> ahh cool
<effie_jayx> can anyone help me spot a good beginer merge?
<mok1> universe or main?
<mok1> effie_jayx: http://dad.dunnewind.net/vpnc/ should be easy, it's only a conflict in 00list
<geser> effie_jayx: mgetty should be quite easy
<effie_jayx> I shall give em a look now... and work on them over the afternoon
<DaveMorris> whats the policy on lib packages having pkg-config files?
<siretart> yay. rebuildd seems to work for me on gutsy!
<mok1> DaveMorris: What do you mean?
<geser> siretart: are you going to rebuild (the) universe?
<siretart> geser: no. I've prepared a new ffmpeg, and now I'm rebuilding all reverse depends in unstable (using sbuild instead of pbuilder of course)
<DaveMorris> I personally like pkg-config files for libs, and I'll create one, open a bug ticket and assign the fix for a lib I found which doesn't use it (wordnet) but I won't bother if people won't use it
<siretart> DaveMorris: did you talk to upstream about the .pc file?
<DaveMorris> not yet, should that be done in the 1st instance then?
<mok1> DaveMorris:  pkgconfig is only one of several ways of doing it. Some libraries have a *-config binary (shell script)
<DaveMorris> mok1: I'm aware of those, still prefer pkg-config
<mok1> DaveMorris: It would be cool to have all libraries use a single standard. I also like pkgconfig
<mok1> DaveMorris: It should be better integrated into GNU autotools, though
<DaveMorris> is there plans for a single standard?
<DaveMorris> pkg-config is quite well integrated into autotools though.  What more did you want?
<mok1> DaveMorris: I dunno... pkgconfig comes out of the Gnome project, right?
<DaveMorris> mok1: I don't know
<mok1> DaveMorris: How so, integrated? I've never seen a macro that calls pkgconfig
<DaveMorris> http://foss.it.brighton.ac.uk/epoch/por/trunk/configure.in
<DaveMorris> use pkgconfig to get the libs, versions, cflags
<DaveMorris> and stops the build if the version of libs aren't whats specified
<mok1> DaveMorris: ah, you misunderstood me. I've often seen pkgconfig used like this, but no macro like AC_PKGCONFIG_CHECK([libusb], $has, $hasnot) or something
<DaveMorris> which would check to see if libusb was installed?
<mok1> exactly
<mok1> and set variables and stuff
<DaveMorris> PKG_CHECK_MODULES(ALL,libusb >= 0.1.10a libcpptest >= 1.0.2 gtkmm-2.4 >= 2.8.8 libglademm-2.4 >= 2.6.2 libxml++-2.6 >= 2.10.0)
<DaveMorris> does that
 * mok1 stands corrected
<DaveMorris> and as you can see, you can specify versions as well
<dfiloni> persia: ping
<mok1> DaveMorris: you are 100% correct
 * mok1 feels stupid
<DaveMorris> can *-config do checks like that easily?
<mok1> DaveMorris: You mean the shell scripts? In my exp. they often have exactly the same syntax
<DaveMorris> and integration into autotools?
<mok1> no
<mok1> you have to run them inside `  `
 * mok1 finds pkg.m4 implementing all pkg-config stuff in autotools
<DaveMorris> I was sold on pkg-config when I started to learn C++ and autotools
<mok1> DaveMorris: Yeah, and I could never understand why the man page never tells you in which library a function is sitting, and what other libraries you need to link with. I loved pkg-config when I first learned about it
<slytherin> imbrandon: I give up. Batik errors seem to be infinite. I wonder how it is built in debian and what ll it contains.
<mok1> DaveMorris: However, with several pkg-config calls, you can sometimes get duplicates
<DaveMorris> afaik thats not a problem though
<DaveMorris> just makes the compile line longer
<mok1> DaveMorris: No, I guess, it just looks ugly
<slytherin> imbrandon: The good part is I have learnt cdbs patch system & quilt basics and logged bug to move libavalon to universe. :-D
<mok0> Ah, I feel my own self now
<mruiz> hi all.. is Debian-Maintainer-Field Spec a valid change to remain in a merge?
<pochu> If there are other changes, yes.
<pochu> If it's the unique remaining change: no, request a sync
<mruiz> thanks pochu
<pochu> my pleasure :)
<joejaxx> persia: are you around? :)
<ScottK> joejaxx: Odds are he's sleeping now.
<joejaxx> ScottK: ah ok
<joejaxx> ScottK: any suggestions for the name of the package for the fedora directory server?
<joejaxx> i was thinking maybe just fedora-ds
<ScottK> Are you planning on packaging it or are you looking for it?
<ScottK> If you're planning on packaging it, I'd suggest directory-server-fedora perhaps.
<joejaxx> packaging :)
<joejaxx> oh ok
<joejaxx> i just thought it would be rather long
<joejaxx> :P
<joejaxx> bah that works
<joejaxx> s/bah/but/g
<ScottK> Personally, I think it's more important that package names be clear than that they be compact, but that's me.
<joejaxx> yeah
<joejaxx> normally i would i just thought that maybe it was a bit long
<joejaxx> but i will go with that
<joejaxx> shorter package names can also mean conflicts with future proposed packages
<joejaxx> sort of like epiphany and epiphany-browser
<joejaxx> :D
<joejaxx> well that is a bad example
<joejaxx> ScottK: thanks :)
<ScottK> No problem.
<ScottK> mdomsch: IIRC you have a DKMS upgrade pending.  You ought to look at the change the Keybuck just uploaded to Hardy and make sure you base you upgrade off that package.
<effie_jayx> ok... here http://merges.ubuntu.com/m/mgetty/REPORT all I have to do is generate a debdiff and compare between the one I did and the one generated automatically ?
<geser> effie_jayx: I usually start from the automatically generated merge, look what Ubuntu changes the packages currently has, what's still needed, check if it got correctly merged and write a changelog entry for the merge
<geser> do a build-test in a pbuilder and double-check the new changes with a debdiff
<bddebian> Is there anything like dpatch-edit-patch for quilt?
<geser> bddebian: not directly, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PatchingSources (see the second example for quilt)
<geser> or the third example if you want to create a new patch
<bddebian> Ah, hmm, thanks geser
<effie_jayx> geser,  I checked debian/changelog... is there where I should be looking?
<nxvl_work> norsetto: it's been time since i don't see you
<nxvl_work> norsetto: how are things going?
<norsetto> nxvl_work: heya! Had quite some connection problems
<nxvl_work> oh
<nxvl_work> i see
<nxvl_work> i have had some hard days
<nxvl_work> so i have been also a little offline
<norsetto> nxvl_work:  hard at work only I hope
<nxvl_work> yep
<nxvl_work> some very busy ones
<nxvl_work> with lots of deadlines
<nxvl_work> but
<nxvl_work> when you love your work, you love it
<norsetto> nxvl_work: just checking out hardy now, so far so good ....
<mok0> pwd
<mok0> ls
<mok0> clear
<mok0> ls
<mok0> Ooops, wrong focus ?
<mruiz> mok0, ;-)
<mok0> hehe
<mdomsch> ScottK, thanks for the heads-up
<ScottK> mdomsch: You're welcome.
<mdomsch> how might I have noticed that if not for your warning?
<ScottK> mdomsch: I noticed it on the hardy-changes RSS feed.
<ScottK> http://media.ubuntu-nl.org/rss/hardy.xml
<mdomsch> ScottK, thanks, I've subscribed to that too now
<mdomsch> yeah, that'll be easy enough to roll back in
<ScottK> mdomsch: No problem.  Feeds exist for all active Ubuntu releases if you're interested.
<mok0> Is Debian contrib component somewhat like universe?
<azeem> not that much
<azeem> contrib contains free sofware, which depends on non-free software
<mok0> What is it then?
<mok0> Ah
<azeem> it's also not officially supported
<azeem> by Debian, AFAIK
<mok0> Who maintains it?
<azeem> Debian Developers
<azeem> well, the line is blurry, really
<ScottK> mok0: Both contrib and non-free are considered "Not part of Debian", but provided for convenience for people who need to use stuff that's not DFSG free on a Debian system.
<mok0> So, more like multiverse
<azeem> well stuff in contrib is DFSG, it's just useless without build or runtime dependencies on non-free software
<azeem> e.g. KDE was in contrib back in the days when Qt wasn't free
<mok0> I see
<mok0> Just wondered whether I needed to include contrib in my new Sid pbuilder...
<mok0> I guess not
<geser> broonie: Hi, could you look at that build failure? it looks like a scons problem: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10891183/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-amd64.aqsis_1.2.0-2ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<greg-g> what is the considerate amount of time to wait for a debian maintainer/ubuntu maintainer to update a package which fixes a bug (for any German using Alexandria) before you poke the maintainer again? :)
<pochu> Ubuntu is mostly team maintained, so you can probably do it yourself
<pochu> there are exceptions though...
<greg-g> well, the reason I ask is because the package in question is maintained by the same person in both debian and ubuntu, and neither has been updated in a while
<geser> greg-g: is the bug only files in Ubuntu or also in Debian?
<mruiz> greg-g, wich package?
<mruiz> s/wich/which
<greg-g> both debian and ubuntu
<greg-g> libamazon-ruby
<greg-g> bug 174633
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 174633 in ruby-amazon "alexandria 0.6.1 no german amazon search possible" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174633
<greg-g> debbug 455148
<geser> greg-g: does a patch exist?
<greg-g> apparently the upstream developer did "everything needed to update the package" (I don't know, I haven't packaged before) but here is what he supplied:
<greg-g> http://alexandria.rubyforge.org/dependencies/ruby-amazon/
<greg-g> would this count as a "bitesize" thing for new MOTUs?
<greg-g> sidenote: it has only been 5 days since the bug was reported to debian and 6 days since it was reported in ubuntu, so I realize that it might be too soon to expect a response from the maintainer
<pochu> It is, imho
<pochu> but still it's team maintained in ubuntu, so if want to work on it you are free to do so
<pochu> and it might be team maintained (pkg-ruby-extras) in Debian too.
<greg-g> I personally have no desire right now to do packaging, I am focusing on triaging, but is this the type of thing that should go on the bitsize list of things for aspiring motus?
<pochu> If it's easy, then yes.
<somerville32> Can someone review the u-u-s. some of my stuff has been there for days :(
<geser> somerville32: which ones?
 * geser should work more often on the u-u-s queue again
<somerville32> 1 was reviewed and I put up a new patch, 1 was reviewed and uploaded (but they must not have done it right because it isn't uploaded), and one hasn't been reviewed at all yet (and I just noticed there is a typo in the changelog, so I'm uploading a new debdiff now)
<somerville32> For the first one mentioned, it has been 21 hours since I uploaded the new debdiff
<somerville32> bug 175802, bug 175813, bug 175991
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 175802 in gfceu "Sponsor gfceu_0.6.0-0ubuntu2" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175802
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 175813 in catfish "Sponsor catfish_0.3-ubuntu2" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175813
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 175991 in ttb "Sponsor ttb_0.9.4-0ubuntu3" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175991
<mruiz> geser, can you review bug 175998, please ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 175998 in mailping "Please merge mailping 0.0.4-1 (universe) from Debian (unstable)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175998
<mruiz> and bug 176379...
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 176379 in monster-masher "Please sync monster-masher (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/176379
<alex-weej> if i have downloaded a source package, debuild'd it, then i make a source code change and "make" it, how can i get a deb out of it again?
<geser> somerville32: re ttb: have you checked that python-gtk2 and python-glade2 is really needed in build-depends-indep? doesn't it build without those?
<somerville32> geser, I haven't. I don't generally check to make sure all the build-deps specified by other people are actually required when I touch a package. Should I?
<CyberMatt> weird situation here i'm working on getting a package into debian with a couple of friends and our sponser just droped off the face of the earth last time he was gone for four month and I Really want this in Ubuntu
<somerville32> CyberMatt, What package?
<slangasek> CyberMatt: what sponsor?
<slangasek> ;)h
<CyberMatt> inspircd Mario Iserl
<slangasek> and he's disappeared? I'm pretty sure I saw him on IRC last week
<CyberMatt> yea but he was idle for two days and this morning poof
<CyberMatt> gone
<CyberMatt> svn.debian.org/pkg-irc
<CyberMatt> last time he did this he was gone June to October
<geser> somerville32: usually it's not needed, but as it looks like ttb is only in Ubuntu it's nice to check for some other packaging errors from the past
<somerville32> geser, k :)
<somerville32> hrmph
<somerville32> sbuild failed with 404s
<geser> somerville32: especially when one updates a package to the current python policy it doesn't hurt to look if the python dependencies are all correct and needed
 * somerville32 nods at geser.
<CyberMatt> my partner says we should submit to ubuntu
<dmb> i'm sure theres a valid reason for mario being gone, but thats not the point
<somerville32> CyberMatt, nothing is stopping you
<CyberMatt> REVU time!
<CyberMatt> hehe
<somerville32> Err http://archive.ubuntu.com hardy/main x11-common 1:7.3+7ubuntu2
<somerville32>   404 Not Found [IP: 91.189.88.45 80]
<pochu> CyberMatt: have you tried sending him a mail explaining the situation?
<CyberMatt> i was just wondering if we would cause political trouble if we went that route
<dmb> i'm sure mario is going to be back soon, the package is going to be uploaded into experimental sometimes this week
<CyberMatt> dmb have you
<dmb> CyberMatt: i talked to him yesterday
<CyberMatt> ok then
<dmb> he said he was going to look at the package, and if he had time upload it
<dmb> but i think something happened, because he pinged out and never came back
<imbrandon> if it goes to expirmental you'll have to explisitly ask for a sync
<dmb> yeh, we would have to ask anyway
<CyberMatt> we'll wait until after Christmas
<dmb> imbrandon: whats the latest that the inspircd package can be pushed in for the LTS?
<imbrandon> dmb untill featurefreeze
<dmb> imbrandon: whens that?
<imbrandon> note sure the exact date, check this
<imbrandon> !releaseschedule
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about releaseschedule - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<imbrandon> err one sec
<geser> mruiz: re mailping: your debdiff contains a changelog.dch.save file (new) and as this merge is special it would be nice if you could mention the version this merge "bases" on in your changelog entry (or the correct version number like in the previus entries). This make is easier to check if we are up-to-date with merging.
<geser> dmb: FF is on Valentine's Day
<imbrandon> dmb: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyReleaseSchedule
<geser> Feb 14th, 2008
<imbrandon> thanks geser
<CyberMatt>  February 14
<mruiz> thanks geser ... as we discussed before with persia and dholbach, it was an error with Debian version number
<CyberMatt> thats why i'm worried
<dmb> ah, we would definitely have it in by feb, the package is already finished, just need it checked by some more people
<geser> mruiz: I've read it in the bug, therefore mention in the changelog the Debian version which got merged
<imbrandon> rember though its to the point now you will have to ask for it to be imported
<imbrandon> dmb: ^^
<imbrandon> once uploaded to debian
<CyberMatt> yes
<dmb> imbrandon: yes
<CyberMatt> so should we REVU in case
<imbrandon> y?
<dmb> imbrandon: should we wait until its in experimental (hopefully this week) then trying to get it imported?
<imbrandon> push it to debian and then request a sync
<imbrandon> dmb: yup
<dmb> ok, sounds simple enough
<somerville32> RAOF, Can you run apt-get update ?
<imbrandon> its only a matter of asking, but it need to be done, auto sync is done as of today
<dmb> ok
<dmb> thanks for the information
<imbrandon> np :)
 * imbrandon goes for a nap
<CyberMatt> and if Mario can't do it for some reason by say second week in January  ill do a REVU
<imbrandon> bbiab
<imbrandon> CyberMatt: that sounds like a sound plan
<CyberMatt> I'm just worried that the Release cycle differences  will come and bite us on the butt
<CyberMatt> come to rather
<grantgm> can someone point me to a resource where I can read about requesting a package be imported from debian? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess seems to be talking about syncing packages that already exist in Ubuntu, rather than importing new ones. Does the same process apply?
<geser> grantgm: the process is the same
<grantgm> and is there any variation in process if the package should be delt with by a specific team (in this case MOTU Science)?
<broonie> geser: Hrm. Looks like they're peering into SCons internals that have been removed from the warning. Not sure that'd cause the infinite recursion, I'd need to look at the package for that.
<geser> broonie: thanks
<broonie> FWIW I'm about to upload a new SCons to Debian (upstream finally did another release of their own)
<geser> grantgm: no, but you could ask the MOTU Science team if they're interested in it, e.g. being a bug contact for the package
<grantgm> thanks geser. will do
<somerville32> geser, Ok, new debdiff coming up
<geser> somerville32: for ttb? someone uploaded it already
<somerville32> geser, lol. should I do another upload then?
<somerville32> geser, those build-deps aren't needed
<geser> if you like
<broonie> geser: FWIW I can reproduce on Debian.
<somerville32> geser, are you looking at bug 175802?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 175802 in gfceu "Sponsor gfceu_0.6.0-0ubuntu2" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175802
<geser> somerville32: shouldn't build-depending on python be enough as gfceu is a python app and doesn't seem to need python headers?
<somerville32> geser, thats what I thought but once again I trusted the previous uploaded. I'll check it out and upload new debdiff if you're right
<geser> somerville32: I'm just test-building with this change and your debdiff
<somerville32> I also did
<somerville32> built fine
<geser> somerville32: is it ok for you when I upload your debdiff with this change?
<somerville32> geser, What modifications did you make to the changelog?
<geser> somerville32: I only updated your line to "- Added build-depend on python" and did the same change to debian/rules. That's all.
<somerville32> geser, ok, sounds good :)
<mruiz> geser, mailping is ready for a review ;-)
<geser> somerville32: uploaded gfceu
<somerville32> geser, thank you muchly
<Ubulette> hmm, just got a fsck on all my disks. "primary superblock different from backup, check forced". is that a known issue ?
<Ubulette> and hal is still broken
<Ubulette> bad day
<geser> Ubulette: I've seen this too after my update to hardy today
<geser> mruiz: uploaded
<mruiz> thanks geser !
<norsetto> ubulette: am I wrong or the plugins for xulrunner must go in /usr/lib/xulrunner/plugins and those for xulrunner-1.9 in /usr/lib/xulrunner-addons/plugins ?
<Ubulette> norsetto, correct
<norsetto> Ubulette: okki, thx
<mruiz> effie_jayx, are you working on vpnc ?
<effie_jayx> no
<effie_jayx> I'm on mgetty
<mruiz> thanks... I will do it ;-)
<slangasek> bluekuja_: hi, did you see my question yesterday about the Architecture: string on fische?
<effie_jayx> mruiz,  could you give me a hand with mine
<effie_jayx> :S
<effie_jayx> hehehe
<mruiz> effie_jayx, sure, but I'm leaving now... :-(
<effie_jayx> mruiz,  tomorrow?
<effie_jayx> I ma reading stuff on merges
<guest22> Any MOTUs here who might be willing to review a recently uploaded package ("photoml", at  http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=953)?
<mruiz> bye all
<slangasek> bluekuja_: perhaps you're not here and that's just your idle IRC client playing games. :)
<norsetto> guest22: you shouldn't need usr/bin in dirs
<norsetto> guest22: for new packages the applicable standard should be 3.7.3
<TheMuso> Hey folks.
<norsetto> guest22: and your package fails to build
<norsetto> hey TheMuso
<guest22> norsetto: Thanks for the comments.
<guest22> norsetto: On what environment does it fail to build? I tested it in pbuilder, and encountered no problems.
<norsetto> guest22: pbuilder
<slangasek> my packages never fail to build, sometimes they just have alternate endings
<norsetto> slangasek: hehe
<guest22> norsetto: Strange. Perhaps some dependencies have changed since I tested it.
<norsetto> guest22: let me pastebin the log
<norsetto> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<norsetto> guest22: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/48274/
<guest22> norsetto: Got it. Thanks again - I'll investigate the problem and fix the other issues you raised.
<norsetto> guest22: seems like you miss some build-deps (perl modules)
<norsetto> guest22: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/48275/ I pasted the relevant portion of the build log
<guest22> norsetto: Perhaps - I'm not sure. BTW, if I remove usr/bin from dirs, that file will be empty. Do I remove it, or leave it as an empty file?
<norsetto> guest22: remove it
<guest22> norsetto: Will do. Thanks again.
<norsetto> guest22: np
<norsetto> guest22: you should also move the homepage to its own field
<Flare183> ok if i am going to package something new to the repos. should I add it to the hardy repos or the gutsy repos?
<somerville32> Flare183, You can only to the hardy repos
<Flare183> ok
<norsetto> guest22: also, this symlink (/usr/share/common-licenses/GPL) in hardy points to the GPL3 (your license is GPL 2)
<guest22> norsetto: In the control file, "Homepage:" should now be a field in its own right, rather than part of the description? Does this just mean the initial space should be removed, or should it move to before "Description:"?
<norsetto> guest22: move it in the source stanza, like Homepage: URL
<guest22> norsetto: It can be directly below "Source:", for example?
<norsetto> guest22: anywhere there, usually people put if before standards-version but you are free to choose what you like
<guest22> norsetto: Understood. Is this a change between 3.7.2 and 3.7.3? (I have other packages that were accepted with the same structure as the package currently on REVU.)
<norsetto> guest22: yes, IIRC is between 3.7.2. and 3.7.2.2
<guest22> norsetto: Good to know. Is there a document on the web listing the changes from 3.7.2 to 3.7.3?
<norsetto> guest22: well, the policy :-)
<geser> TheMuso: have you seen that brltty (main) is in depwait on dh-lisp (universe)?
<guest22> norsetto: Pity, a list of changes would be useful.
<norsetto> guest22: I would have thought this had it: http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/d/debian-policy/debian-policy_3.7.3.0/changelog but it doesn't seem complete
<geser> guest22, norsetto: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2007/12/msg00001.html
<geser> perhaps also check /usr/share/doc/debian-policy/upgrading-checklist.txt.gz as suggested by that mail
<guest22> norsetto and geser: OK, thanks, I'll take a look at those documents.
<Flare183> What does "Upstream Author" mean?
<norsetto> geser: its true that doesn't cost much to add a list of changes in the document itself .... bad policy on the policy
<geser> Flare183: the person(s) who wrote the software
<Flare183> oh ok
<macd> imbrandon, you here?
<TheMuso> geser: Ouch, no I didn't, thanks.
<TheMuso> geser: My sponsor should have caught that.
<TheMuso> somerville32: ok
<somerville32> bryce, ping. I still don't see it :(
<bryce> somerville32: hrm, one minute
<bryce> somerville32: I've re-uploaded it
<bryce> somerville32: ok, catfish was accepted.  Should be building now and available soon.
<somerville32> ummm...
<somerville32> Why does it say you uploaded it?
<somerville32> bryce, Why did you make yourself the signer of the changelog? Now the upload won't show up in my list :S
<_MMA_> somerville32: Just wondering, does it matter?
<somerville32> _MMA_, Yes.
<Fujitsu> _MMA_: It does. Bodies like the MC look at upload lists.
<_MMA_> So its about personal recognition?
<Ubulette> persia, I don't remember, were you interested by reviewing the changes you've asked me for seamonkey ? or can i just push to a sponsor ?
<bryce> somerville32: because your patch didn't apply against the rules file, so I had to fix it up.
<bryce> somerville32: sorry, I assumed your priority was getting the changes in rather than building credit.  I don't normally assist with sponsoring, so didn't know that was a need.
<somerville32> bryce, It isn't a problem but if thats the case you forgot to note in the changelog your changes
<bryce> somerville32: actually there were no changes to mention.  just the order of how things were applied by the patch.
<somerville32> :S
<somerville32> How many uploads should I have under my belt before feeling comfortable to approach the MC?
<bryce> I think I had a few dozen
<LaserJock> afternoon all
<bryce> hmm, well a few dozen non-trivial ones
<bryce> but I wasn't looking so much at count, as breadth, so I wanted to wait until I'd created a package from scratch, done a significant package (xserver, l-r-m), and handled some sru's, mir's, etc. before applying
<LaserJock> somerville32: I've always thought a good way to know is to think about if you truly feel confident that you can handle uploading to Universe without supervision and sponsoring is just getting in the way of progress
<LaserJock> i.e. you are functioning as a MOTU, except you have to have a sponsor
<somerville32> Well, I fully intend to continue to contribute to Xubuntu and soon Edubuntu
<LaserJock> somerville32: good :-)
<LaserJock> oh, and make sure your key is signed ;-)
<somerville32> haha :P
<LaserJock> man, I'll be lucky to graduate with these blockheads at the graduate school >:/
<LaserJock> I got an email today that they lost some of my paperwork ... again
<somerville32> hehe
<LaserJock> I've now sent them my Program of Study *4* times and my Change of Advisory Committee 2 times
<pwnguin> send it certified mail ;)
<LaserJock> pwnguin: well, a couple times I've hand delivered it
#ubuntu-motu 2007-12-15
<somerville32> RAOF, I keep getting 404s when I build :(
<wolfgang> look that- http://wolfgang-city.myminicity.com/
 * somerville32 sighs.
<somerville32> 0.3-0ubuntu2 IS listed on +packages for some reason (and now 0.3-0ubuntu1 is gone).
<Fujitsu> somerville32: That's LP magic.
<Fujitsu> It's because you're the maintainer.
<Fujitsu> And bug #125987.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 125987 in soyuz "Some uploads missing from +packages" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/125987
<LaserJock> is there any way to check why a package is uninstallable without actually installing it?
<slangasek> run something like edos's software over the archive? :)
<minghua> LaserJock: Does "ask someone else to test installing it" count? :-P
<LaserJock> minghua: no, not really
<LaserJock> I don't mind doing it in general
<LaserJock> but some of my edubuntu metapackages show up
<LaserJock> seems like qa.ubuntuwire.com/debcheck has what I want
<somerville32> LaserJock, want to do a quick/super-fast sponsorship? :]
<LaserJock> hmm, depends ;-)
<LaserJock> somerville32: what's up?
<minghua> LaserJock: I thought debcheck only checks dependency-related un-installable problems, and it can't check maintainer script related un-installable problems.
<somerville32> LaserJock, bug #176467 but I've got a new debdiff coming up in a sec
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 176467 in gnomescan "Sponsor gnomescan_0.4.1-0ubuntu4" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/176467
<minghua> Am I wrong?
<LaserJock> minghua: sounds reasonable
<LaserJock> we'd need like piuparts for a full check I think
<somerville32> LaserJock, uploaded.
<minghua> LaserJock: I think so.  But wasn't there an email recently about piupart testing for the whole archive?
<LaserJock> somerville32: hmm, that seems like stuff that should be done upstream
<somerville32> LaserJock, How so?
<LaserJock> somerville32: why should we be maintaining that diff?
<somerville32> LaserJock, the diff is in debian/
<somerville32>    * debian/watch: Created watchfile
<somerville32>    * debian/changelog: Fixed encoding issue.
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> but Debian should have that, not us
<somerville32> LaserJock, Look at the version of the package
<LaserJock> heh ...
<LaserJock> then my question's gonna be, why isn't this package in Debian? ;-)
<somerville32> LaserJock, I dunno. Persia wants all packages unique to Ubuntu to have watchfiles
<somerville32> so I'm just doing his bidding :P
<LaserJock> right
<somerville32> LaserJock, Did you unsubscribe u-u-s?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> cause I'm gonna upload it
<somerville32> ok
 * Fujitsu thinks a per-package whiteboard would be nice.
<LaserJock> yeah, I said that a long time ago ...
<persia> Ubulette: I tend to be very team-focused.  Please feel free to ask any sponsor for a review after adjusting for my changes, or for any questions you may have.  If I'm around, I'll also answer, and once it turns up again as oldest in FIFO, I'll hit it again.
<Ubulette> persia, nm, asac sponsored it
<persia> Ubulette: Excellent.  That's efficiency: when he's busy, I review, and when I'm busy, he uploads.
<Ubulette> efficient, depends. i've done those changes ~5 days ago. but nm, i'm probably too demanding.
<somerville32> LaserJock, how goes it?
<LaserJock> somerville32: done
<persia> Ubulette: More efficient than waiting for me to look at it again :)
<somerville32> LaserJock, How long ago?
<somerville32> LaserJock, I don't see it
<LaserJock> like a minute
<somerville32> ok
<ScottK> If there's anyone about (like maybe Ste
<ScottK> ...
<ScottK> StevenK) who know about Perl stuff....  I'm looking for a point to docs on how to add POD documentation to a Perl package (upstream, not Debian packaging)
<ScottK> Help
<persia> ScottK: Do you mean just adding the POD clauses to the source?
<persia> Or do you mean extracting it for export to other tools?
<ScottK> Adding POD clauses to the source.
<persia> ScottK: man perlpod
<ScottK> persia: Thanks.
<persia> ScottK: There may be some magic I don't understand to make that useful :)
<ScottK> OK.  Well it's a start.
<ember> i've got a few packages on queue if anyone wanna check
<ember> bug #174467
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 174467 in gnome-schedule "Please sponsor gnome-schedule-1.2.1 into Hardy" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174467
<persia> ember: By my count, you're currently at spot 17 in the FIFO queue.  Shouldn't be terribly long.
<ember> heh that one have 10 days, seb already reviewed but forgot to upload it
<persia> ember: The way I count, a review or comment resets, which skews things for cases like that :(
<ember> humpfh, lol.
<LaserJock> persia: do you think it'd be reasonable to have a PTS-like interface on qa.ubuntuwire.com?
<persia> LaserJock: Could you expand on that a little?
<LaserJock> well, rather than having lists of packages and looking by "issue"
<persia> (more specifically, explain how it differs from packages.ubuntu.com or launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/foo)
<LaserJock> I'd like to put in a package name and see all the available info
<LaserJock> umm, we none of those have QA
<LaserJock> *well
<persia> LaserJock: Ah, so you want to see info about FTBFS, lintian, NBS, etc from a per-package overview page?
<LaserJock> yes
<Fujitsu> Like http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?
<persia> LaserJock: That makes sense.  If you can get a POC running on people.ubuntuwire.com, I don't see any reason it can't later get included on the QA page.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: pretty much yeah
<LaserJock> persia: POC?
<crimsun> proof of concept.
<persia> LaserJock: Proof-of-concent
<LaserJock> oh, right
<persia> LaserJock: Also, I'd personally prefer limiting that list in most cases to Ubuntu-unique & orphaned packages, as I don't think we yet have the resources to chase all the QA stuff in Debian (NBS & FTBFS stuff aside)
<LaserJock> persia: all I want is the stuff we already have on qa.ubuntuwire.com
<LaserJock> just on a per/package basis
<persia> LaserJock: That's just a pointers page.  Half the stuff is LP or p.u.c, and the other half scripts that point to different subsets of the archive.  There's no central organisation.
<LaserJock> that's what I'm getting at basically
<minghua> persia: For example, http://packages.qa.debian.org/s/scim.html, if you don't know what PTS is exactly.
<persia> minghua: Yep: it's my primary source of info about Debian packages :)
<minghua> persia: It pretty much has all the links related to a certain package.
<minghua> persia: Okay, just to be sure you are LaserJock are talking about the same thing...
<persia> minghua: At issue is that it's a big effort, and in many ways duplicates Debian.  I'd prefer to see us concentrate on the non-Debian stuff and the broken-when-imported-to-Ubuntu stuff.
<LaserJock> persia: all I'm talking about is data we *already* have on qa.ubuntuwire.com
<guest22> Any MOTUs here who would be willing to review a newly uploaded package - "photoml" at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=998? (This upload corrects the problems pointed out by norsetto earlier today.)
<persia> LaserJock: Right, but as I said, half of that is hosted by Canonical, and the rest is all separate scripts.  If someone were to organise it, and generate a sample (people.ubuntuwire.com might be a good place), and people found it useful, I don't see any reason not to add another link on the QA page.
<LaserJock> persia: right
<LaserJock> do we have a list of where the scripts are maintained?
<persia> LaserJock: For UW-hosted stuff, Fujitsu does UEHS, debcheck, lintian, and MDT.  I think geser adopted FTBFS, and ajmitch does RCbugs.  For the rest, I'm not sure, but I think pitti does NBS, keybuk does MoM, pitti does SRUs, and mvo does conflict-checker (although I may be mistaken)
<persia> (and LP stuff is just special searches)
<LaserJock> thanks
<crimsun> (I think Steven does NBS.)
<crimsun> Steve, that is.
<crimsun> argh
<persia> crimsun: manages the NBS generation script?  Thanks for the correction.
<persia> LucidFox: No need to mention that something is in incoming.d.o in a sync request: between U-U-S and U-A delays, it almost certainly won't be by the time the request gets processed.
<imbrandon> hrm, a PTS like interface on a per package basis would be nice
<cheguevara> imbrandon, just in case you didn't notice there are 2 patches on the novell bugzilla that need to be applied, sorry i didn't make it clear
<imbrandon> cheguevara: i seen that, thanks
<cheguevara> kk, just checking :P
<LaserJock> imbrandon: it'd be really nice if Launchpad did it for us
<imbrandon> LaserJock: you can also cat the apache config for qa.uw.c on orko to see where the scripts are housed, it should be readable
<imbrandon> just fyi
<persia> LaserJock: Yes, but LP would have to have all the other bits as well, or be linking outside LP.
<imbrandon> LaserJock: it would be really nice but i dont count on LP to provide anything other than whats already there, we cant modify it when needed etc
<imbrandon> and realy actualy against adding things to it untill it is made floss
<imbrandon> and stablized
<persia> imbrandon: That's not fair to the LP developers.  They do make changes, and some of those changes are helpful.  Doesn't mean we wait before writing other tools.
<imbrandon> yea sorta heh ...
<LaserJock> persia, imbrandon: I know I'm just saying that if they want to support distros these kinds of tools would be nice
<imbrandon> LaserJock: definately
<persia> LaserJock: Agreed.  File some wishlist bugs or write some specs :)
<LaserJock> hmm, does apt-cacher handle multiple releases?
<ScottK> imbrandon: Of course there's the things we rely on in LP that LP developers unknown to us consider bugs and take away.
<LaserJock> or any apt caching app
<imbrandon> LaserJock: a mirror or squid probably, i doubt others
<minghua> LaserJock: I know apt-proxy does.
<LaserJock> I've got 3 machines at home and with all the pbuilders and chroots I'm wasting a lot of time/bandwidth
<persia> LaserJock: The web tools do, the local tools don't.
<Fujitsu> I use apt-cacher, and it works fine over multiple releases.
<minghua> LaserJock: I'm not sure it qualifies your "apt caching app" though.
<Fujitsu> If I were to tell it to do Debian too, it would probably get mighty confused, but that particular instance doesn't do Debian stuff.
<minghua> Is there recently any discussion about updating texlive-base in gutsy?
<ScottK> minghua: IIRC it was mentioned on #ubuntu-devel earlier today.
 * persia thinks that was for a sync for hardy
<LaserJock> minghua: no why?
<minghua> ScottK: Thanks, I'll go read the log.
<persia> LaserJock: ML discussion on u-d-d about it being broken
<LaserJock> :/
<minghua> LaserJock: bug 174569
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 174569 in texlive-bin "postinst failure during gutsy security update" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174569
<minghua> ScottK: It was a different issue on #ubuntu-devel earlier, unfortunately.
<ScottK> minghua: Sorry for the distraction then.
<LaserJock> minghua: what was the problem earlier?
<minghua> ScottK: No problem, at least it gives hints who care about texlive... :-)
<minghua> LaserJock: Hardy issues, bug 176411, for instance.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 176411 in texlive-bin "[Sync request] Sync texlive-bin (2007.dfsg.1-2) from Debian (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/176411
<LaserJock> I have such a love-hate relationship with TeX
<LaserJock> I'm not sure we can SRU all of -11
<minghua> LaserJock: I think I can cherry-pick the patch if there is interest for a SRU.
<minghua> It will be quite a PITA to test, though...
<LaserJock> seems like we can't go a release without breaking something in TeX
<LaserJock> :/
 * minghua doesn't even have texlive installed on his gutsy.
<LaserJock> I do for my dissertation
 * minghua writes papers on his Debian. :-)
<imbrandon> ugh, 9 to 12 inches of snow called for tonight over the next 12 hours
<imbrandon> fun fun fun
 * persia misses snow
 * imbrandon dosent
 * Fujitsu does too. No snow here in... well, we had a tiny bit about a decade ago.
 * imbrandon is suprised Fujitsu rembers a decade ago :)
<DarkMageZ> imbrandon, what's this snow you speak of?
 * minghua misses snow as well.
<guest22> Since my previous request seems to have been made during the middle of a discussion, let me try again. Any MOTU here willing to review a recently uploaded package ("photoml")?
<somerville32> guest22, I'm not a MOTU but I'll review for you
<guest22> somerville32: thanks - I'd appreciate your comments.
<tritium> hi jsgotangco
<StevenK> ScottK: Do you still need help?
<ScottK> StevenK: I think persia gave me enough of a hint to at least give it a shot.  Thanks.
<persia> StevenK: Are you maintaining NBS now?
<StevenK> persia: I'm doing NBS stuff, yes
<persia> StevenK: I was more talking about the generation scripts, rather than the work described, but if the answer is still yes, I'd be curious if you'd find http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~dktrkranz/NBS/ (or extensions thereof) useful.
<StevenK> I'll have a poke. I've written my own tools anyway. :-)
<persia> StevenK: Do you have a pointer to your tools?
<StevenK> No, they're local, and I'm not really comfortable enough with them to have other people using them.
<persia> StevenK: Fair enough :)
<StevenK> They work for me since they're written to deal with the way I work.
 * persia encourages all contributors to add a Debian bug task when the bug is also submitted to debian.
<bluefoxicy> argh
<bluefoxicy> this crappy printer config...
 * bluefoxicy goes to get the old one
<bluefoxicy> gnome-cups-ui actually works ~_~
<bluefoxicy> gnome-cups-manager rather
<bluefoxicy> oh THAT was the problem, stupid system-config-printer PAUSED MY PRINTER and doesn't tell you that it's paused
<bluefoxicy> remind me again WHY this worthless crap was put in Gutsy in place of something that actually works?
<bluefoxicy> looks like it has the ability to configure a bunch of options like paper margins and such that I don't see a need for (that's openoffice's job), and also (uniquely) to configure the printer to always print classified/top secret/etc banners (my house isn't a cleared facility, if I need to print something classified here something is wrong)
<joejaxx> who is steven langasek?
<persia> joejaxx: One of the archive-admins
<ScottK> joejaxx and persia: He's the Ubuntu release manager
<ScottK> Not actually an archive admin.
<ScottK> Also vorlon in Debian.
<joejaxx> what is his irc nick?
<joejaxx> :)
<ScottK> slangasek: joejaxx is looking for you.
<persia> ScottK: https://launchpad.net/~vorlon/+participation
<joejaxx> oh no i was not really i was just wondering who has was
<DoubleDave> good evening
<joejaxx> since he was doing release engineering for ubuntu
<persia> joejaxx: Long-time release manager for Debian, now also doing release management for Ubuntu.
<joejaxx> oh ok
<persia> good evening DoubleDave
<joejaxx> i do not feel so well :\
<DoubleDave> have a couple of questions about lintian if anyone can lend some advice
<persia> DoubleDave: You'll do best to just ask the questions :)
<joejaxx> persia: i think i am going to go for motu next release cycle
<joejaxx> :)
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: minghua hello :)
<persia> joejaxx: Cool!
<DoubleDave> k i'm building a deb package for  ubuntu to eventually go into the cononical repo
<minghua> Hi joejaxx.
<DoubleDave> running lintian on it though reports that there is a file in an unusual directory /opt
<DoubleDave> my whole package is being installed into opt
<joejaxx> oh
<persia> DoubleDave: Ubuntu doesn't generally use anything in /opt.  Why are you installing there?
<joejaxx> interesting
<DoubleDave> seems trivial that I would get an error from lintian regarding this
<DoubleDave> persia: just to keep the users system clean I suppose
<persia> DoubleDave: That's why we package things.  It allows software to be installed in the default locations, and cleanly uninstalled later.
<DoubleDave> do you know if they will reject the package because of that?
<Hobbsee> heya joejaxx!
<persia> DoubleDave: I would, although I can't speak for everyone.
<DoubleDave> well its a custom package its our own software so that just where we started installing it on other systems
<DoubleDave> im used to slackware so the whole debian policy is a little strange to me I guess
<persia> DoubleDave: For unpackaged software, /opt can be a real benefit.  Once it gets packaged, the inconveniences of /opt outweigh the benefits.
<DoubleDave> persia: not arguing here just curious. what would be inconvenient about it?
<persia> With an /opt configuration, the user must reconfigure some of their basic utilities to use that configuration, which is lots easier than trying to individually deal with the random files all over the place.  Once the user can use a package manager, there is no need for the user to care where the binaries are kept, so it's best to make it so they don't need to reset their $PATH, etc.
<minghua> persia: I'm pretty sure packages that install to /opt will be rejected, violating FHS and stuff, you know.
<persia> minghua: I'd tend to agree.
<LaserJock> according to FHS, "/opt is reserved for the installation of add-on application software packages."
<DoubleDave> what would be considered ad on and what is FHS?
<DoubleDave> sorry can you tell im a newb
<persia> LaserJock: I guess the question is whether a given package should be considered "add-on".  I believe that once it is packaged in the default package manager, it's no longer "add-on".
<persia> DoubleDave: Just new to Debian policies :)
<DoubleDave> the package I'm building I would consider add on
<LaserJock> DoubleDave: no problem, FHS is Filesystem Hierarchy Standard
<LaserJock> DoubleDave: http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#OPTADDONAPPLICATIONSOFTWAREPACKAGES
<DoubleDave> persia: yes and I must admit I've been a bit lazy about reading
<DoubleDave> thanks for your help everyone
<LaserJock> I've seen /opt/ used for binary 3rd party software and for software that will conflict with existing system software
<DoubleDave> I'll read that link Laser
<StevenK> LaserJock: Ponies!
<persia> LaserJock: I'd even recommend it as an alternative to /usr/local when it's not really local for source-available software being installed manually.  For conflicts, there's Priority: extra
<LaserJock> persia: for co-existing conflicting software
<LaserJock> i.e. KDE4 alongside KDE3
<joejaxx> lol ponies
<persia> LaserJock: If it can co-exist, it doesn't conflict.  Now, about the status of the Equestrian Academy....
<joejaxx> Lol
<LaserJock> persia: it can only exist in a different part of the filesystem
<LaserJock> so it *would* be conflicting if it were to not be installed in /opt/
<persia> LaserJock: So the heap of kde4 packages that just went through NEW all install to /opt?
<LaserJock> no
 * persia wants a different example
<LaserJock> they've separated by /usr/lib/kde{3,4}
<LaserJock> but I *have* seen it done that way for KDE4&3
<persia> LaserJock: Right, which makes sense, and doesn't require /opt.  I can't think of a case where any package that would be in the archives by default should use /opt.
<LaserJock> no, it shouldn't
<persia> On the other hand, I can see many cases where an administrator would prefer /opt to /usr/local as an installation target.
<LaserJock> I'm just saying that's often a case where /opt is used
<LaserJock> LTSP uses /opt
<LaserJock> for the client chroots
<persia> That seems odd to me.  I'd have expected something under /var.
<DoubleDave> k im back with another one
<DoubleDave> verry good link by the way laser
<LaserJock> DoubleDave: well, that is a widely accepted standard for *nix OSs
<DoubleDave> persia: you mentioned trying to keep the user from change their path correct
<persia> DoubleDave: By way of example.  There are many other things that may need adjustment to use /opt
<DoubleDave> the package im makeing installs postgres, php, apache into opt so that it doesnt disturb any of that software already running on the users system
<persia> DoubleDave: Why can't you use the system postgres, php, and apache?
<DoubleDave> it runs post gres with its own socket file under opt along with apach listening on a different port
<DoubleDave> would that be an exception
<persia> LaserJock: Reading again, I'm still not sure about /opt for LTSP, but I can't figure out where it would go, so I'll stop complaining.
<persia> DoubleDave: Why does it need to do that?
<LaserJock> persia: I'm guessing that's how it ended up there
 * persia notes that /var/lib/ would be right, if it weren't for the strange restriction to the local system.
<DoubleDave> persia: guess now that you ask im not to sure that it does its just the way my partner built it
<persia> DoubleDave: OK.  At this point, I think more context is required.  Is there a URL that provides information about the application?
<DoubleDave> yes nullbound.com
<DoubleDave> persia: its downloadable now in tar.gz form that is executable
<DoubleDave> it installs to opt
<DoubleDave> in my opinion its not the cleanest installer
<DoubleDave> but it works well
<persia> DoubleDave: So basically, this software is installed on a dedicated appliance, watches the network for stuff, and provides reports?
<DoubleDave> yes for the most part
<DoubleDave> it should be installed on a dedicated machine
<joejaxx> probably do not need to install to /opt then ;)
<LaserJock> so for you using /opt is a convenience
<persia> DoubleDave: OK.  Personally, I believe that in such a case, it's best to have the promiscuous port on a secondary network, and use default services on the management network (which is presumably protected by other means).
<LaserJock> it allows you to just drop in on many different distros without worrying about peculuarities
<DoubleDave> sorry its moving pretty fast in here... Yes conveniance LaserJock as well as cleanlyness
<persia> As a result, I'd strongly suggest using the system default services on the system default ports on the management interface (and nothing on the promiscuous interface).
<DoubleDave> or so I thought
<persia> This means your software only needs to do its thing, and you can rely on the distribution for the updates to the system software, reducing your support overhead.
<LaserJock> DoubleDave: of course there are pros and cons
<persia> Further, I'd recommend not using /opt.  Given that this would be the primary service installed on the target machine, there's no reason to keep it separate once it has been integrated with package management.
<LaserJock> if you're gonna go to the trouble of making a package and you know it's gonna be for a Debian/Ubuntu system
<LaserJock> then integration with the existing distro packages can be a bonus
<DoubleDave> trying to keep up here. lol
<joejaxx> anyone else here have experience with the fedoa-ds source?
<persia> DoubleDave: Also, I'd add some documentation & support for a separate management network to your site & software: trying to manage a system over a monitored promiscuous port can be exceedingly annoying for large installations.
<joejaxx> i am trying to figure out whether i should create one source package or multiple ones
<joejaxx> oh nevermind
<joejaxx> one source package does not make any sense
<DoubleDave> persia: is there another channel perhaps that I is a little quiter im having a hard time here sorry
 * StevenK adds to the noise.
<persia> joejaxx: Unless there's a strong reason otherwise, best to have one source per upstream tarball, and split the binaries based on architecture (and purpose, for libraries)
<DoubleDave> nm
<DoubleDave> persia: thanks again and I am taking all of your opinions but for some reason I cant see a downside
<DoubleDave> the software during the setup asks what nic you would like to use for monitoring
<DoubleDave> so really you should have two nics anyway
<persia> DoubleDave: The downside to /opt is that very few would consider it an "add-on" package, and so getting it into the archives would be very difficult.
<DoubleDave> I'll head your advice and see what my buddy thinks
<persia> Further, if you are installing specialised versions of postgres, apache, etc. you do not get the benefits of distro security support for those components, and so need to manage it separately
<DoubleDave> I thing the reason why we would like to keep it in opt is for consistancy on for our sake instead of having multiple installs of the same version software
<DoubleDave> but if it will be rejected then I guess me complaining wont really get me anyware will it? lol
<joejaxx> persia: the tricky thing is all the build requirements
<persia> DoubleDave: As the software provider, you shouldn't need to care about the installation location: that should all be abstracted by the build system.  Then, the packaging for each distribution should pass the right flags to the build system to install it in the preferred place.
<joejaxx> persia: i am going to have to do an audit of them
<persia> joejaxx: Just be extra careful to avoid any loops, and you should be OK.
<joejaxx> to see if they are even necessary in ubuntu
<joejaxx> or if they have already been applied
<joejaxx> loops?
<persia> joejaxx: A depends on B and B build-depends on A.  Easy to see for two packages, but not always as obvious for 10.
<joejaxx> oh
<joejaxx> :)
<DoubleDave> anyway to add a little plug here for the software your more than welcome to try it out if you have a spyware problem on your network
<DoubleDave> it works great. I'll get to makeing the package compliant
<DoubleDave> thanks again all
 * persia is far too paranoid to install binary software
<joejaxx> persia: security paranoia ftw :)
<joejaxx> StevenK: oh i forgot to tell you, upstream calls it fedora-ds
<joejaxx> StevenK: ref: package naming
<StevenK> Grm?
<ScottK> joejaxx: I think you meant me.
<joejaxx> oh whoops
<joejaxx> sorry
<ScottK> StevenK: He asked me about what to name his package earlier today.
<StevenK> Ah
<ScottK> joejaxx: That changes things.  I'd go with the upstream name.
<joejaxx> ScottK: ok
<ScottK> Unless the other S*K has another thought on it.
 * persia notes that backlog says he was asking me, and thanks ScottK for answering promptly
<ScottK> 'cause you were sleeping (like I should be right now).
<persia> ScottK2: Right.  Go to bed :)
<joejaxx> i might have to start with the build requirements for it
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> as some of them might not be in ubuntu yet
<ScottK> persia: I'm doing important stuff like making software not want to fall over quite so badly in the face of insanely broken DNS servers.
<persia> ScottK2: Ah.  DNS has a way of keeping one up at night.  Good luck.
<joejaxx> maybe i will just put it on ppa as it seems this is going to be a project to upload
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> or it is not going to all get uploaded this release cycle
<joejaxx> well maybe
<joejaxx> depends on when the new package freeze is
<persia> joejaxx: Just give it a shot.  There's a couple months left.
<joejaxx> what is NPF a part of now?
<joejaxx> i do not see it on the release schedule
<persia> joejaxx: Feature Freeze
<joejaxx> ah ok
<joejaxx> ahh i thought it was a lot closer :)
<persia> joejaxx: No, this is the right phase of the release cycle to be looking closely at integration and new features to make hardy the best Ubuntu yet.
<joejaxx> :)
<joejaxx> i think the fun part will be the java based parts :P
<LaserJock> so bzr hit 1.0
<joejaxx> yeap
 * LaserJock idly wonders if Launchpad will hit 1.0 soon
 * TheMuso wonders whether that will be backported.
<LaserJock> TheMuso: they have their own repo if not
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Ah ok. I didn't know that?
<TheMuso> s/?/./g
<LaserJock> yeah, they've had it forever
<LaserJock> that was about the only way you could keep up
<TheMuso> Right.
<joejaxx> anyone else having problems with the libstndc++6 package on hardy?
<LaserJock> hmm
<joejaxx> libstdc++6 *
<TheMuso> joejaxx: What problems exactly?
 * LaserJock raises an eyebrow as libc6-amd64 goes by in his pbuilder update
<joejaxx> LaserJock: say
<joejaxx> same*
<joejaxx> failing to configure
<TheMuso> ah
<joejaxx> but it seems that it goes way after dist-upgrading the rest of the system
<joejaxx> bah that stinks there are not an 3ware RAID drivers for solaris yet
<TheMuso> brb
 * TheMuso is currently mirroring hardy, as well as gutsy* powerpc.
<TheMuso> oh and hardy* powerpc
<joejaxx> persia: http://directory.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Licensing
<persia> joejaxx: Why me?
<joejaxx> -persia :P
<persia> joejaxx: Next, what about it?
<joejaxx> would any of those license stop any of those from going into universe?
<joejaxx> well excluding the software already in ubuntu
 * persia is unsure about "Only Red Hat, Inc. may make changes or additions to the list of Approved Interfaces" in paragraph 4 of http://directory.fedoraproject.org/wiki/GPL_Exception_License_Text for Directory Server Core.  Is this exception required for the materials you are expecting to package?
<TheMuso> joejaxx: What is fedora-ds?
<joejaxx> TheMuso: directory server
<joejaxx> ldap
<TheMuso> ah
<TheMuso> Whats so special about it if its ldap?
<joejaxx> http://directory.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features all of this :)
<TheMuso> ok
<TheMuso> Nice set of features.
<slangasek> ScottK: I am an archive admin too, as persia seems to have pointed you to
<joejaxx> TheMuso: :D
<joejaxx> well i am going to retire for the evening
<joejaxx> i will start on the build depends tomorrow
<joejaxx> Goodnight All
<TheMuso> Night joejaxx.
<persia> slangasek: Do you expect anything special from universe for alpha 2, or is it just more of our regular "things should install, and not FTBFS" efforts.
 * TheMuso is VERY impressed with his local mirror.
<TheMuso> I uploaded a package, and as of approx 3 this afternoon, its there.
<TheMuso> Much better turn-around to what it used to be.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: wow, nice.  internode?
<slangasek> persia: I expect universe to be bug-free for alpha 2, of course ;)
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Yse.
<TheMuso> yes even
<TheMuso> SO I don't have to wait half a day for a broken mirror to be working again. :)
<slytherin> Is an upstream source package contains some jar files. Is it good idea to remove them all?
<persia> slytherin: Not necessarily: it depends what is in the jar files.  Sometimes upstreams put source in jar files, and you might need that.
<persia> Further, if the upstream files are free, it might make sense to remove them in clean: rather then removing them in the tarball.
<slytherin> persia: There are some demos in the documentation sub directory. These demos are bulild automatically but they don't seem to be cleaned in 'clean' target
<persia> slytherin: In that case, either patch clean in the upstream makefile, or add it to debian/rules clean:
<slytherin> The situation is like this. I am trying to create a .orig.tar.gz. That is why I want to remove the jar files.
<slytherin> Even the older .orig.tar.gz has jar files removed
<persia> slytherin: I don't see the point of removing the jar files from the orig.tar.gz if you have source for them, and would rebuild during the build process.  I suspect either the source doesn't work, the files aren't free, or someone was being extra careful, and erred in favour of removing stuff rather than maintaining checksum sync with upstream.
<slytherin> persia: 1. Sorry for being unclear. The jar files are related to test and demos. So they won't get build in the ubuntu package because we are not using 'test' or 'demo' targets
<persia> slytherin: That's fine.  As long as they could be built, and they may be modified and distributed, then they are free enough to be in the tarball, even if we don't use them.
<slytherin> persia: Ok. I was under impression that we shouldn't include any jar files in orig.tar.gz them being binary.
<persia> slytherin: My opinion is that we should ship the orig.tar.gz available upstream as often as possible, as long as we are permitted to do so.  The only reason most Jar files, PDF files, etc. need to be removed from upstream tarballs is because upstream doesn't provide source.
<persia> Binary files are fine: many sounds and graphics have binary formats as the preferred form of modification.
<slytherin> persia: provide source in same tarball right?
<persia> slytherin: Right.
<JimmyDee> quietest 177 people I've ever seen
<Burgundavia> it is European early morning and NA night
<JimmyDee> yeah its 0300 here, but no sleep for the wicked
<persia> JimmyDee: Even in places where it isn't an odd time, it's the weekend.  Further, this is mostly a coordination channel: people generally only say things when there is a question.
<TheMuso> And, people also idle in here to follow the activity, and to find out what has been going on when they are not around.
 * persia contemplates shifting the topic from merging to FTBFS + debcheck
<persia> ajmitch: Any chance that RCbugs could be updated to point at hardy?
<slytherin> Where can I find minor ftbfs bugs?
<jpatrick> sl
<jpatrick> slytherin: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/
<persia> slytherin: Separating major from minor is tricky, but the link jpatrick provided is a nice list :)
<slytherin> Thanks
<slytherin> I will be mostly looking for java programs/libraries
<Lutin> persia: does the ftbfs page makes any difference between build failures and depwait/not yet built ?
<persia> Lutin: They should be different colors.  Take a look at the top: if you can't differentiate two of the colors, maybe one should be adjusted (I can see 5 with this set)
<persia> Ooh!  I forgot, they have different letter codes now too :)
<Lutin> persia: ahh right. sorry
<slytherin> It looks like there is no java-gcj-compat-dev package for hppa. This causes FTBFS for many java based libraries. Does anyone know anything about this?
<pochu> good morning MOTU land!
<geser> Hi pochu
<geser> slytherin: go up the dep chain and check why is isn't there
<geser> slytherin: java-gcj-compat depwaits on gcj-4.2 and gcj-4.2 failed to build as ecj wasn't installable at that time
<slytherin> geser: Ok. I thought this was something arch specific.
<geser> it might be
<geser> I didn't check if ecj is now installable on hppa
<slytherin> How can I find someone to review the package I have uploaded?
<Hobbsee> ask in here
<persia> slytherin: Is this a new package, or a package update?
<slytherin> persia: New version
<persia> slytherin: In that case attach a debdiff or interdiff to a bug, and subscribe the ubuntu-universe-sponsors.
<slytherin> persia: I had talked with last uploader. He asked me to upload to Revu and I did it and even mailed him for review. But haven't got any reply.
<slytherin> persia: I am one of the upstream maintainers and wish to take over package maintenance in Ubuntu
<persia> slytherin: There are lots of different methods to get your updates into the repositories.  If you work with a specific person, you may want to listen to them.  The official current procedure in the standard case is as I described.
<slytherin> Ok
<persia> Personally, I recommend following the standard procedures to take advantage of team review, and not wait for some person.  On the other hand, some packages do better from having that person's input.
<persia> If you're upstream, and you want to help with Ubuntu, that's great.  I suggest you may also want to get in touch with Debian if your package is there, as the Debian maintainer may also find your advice helpful.
<persia> For most cases of upstream support for a specific application, following the team procedures is fastest.  Once you've had a couple uploads, you'll find your changes getting only light review, as you'll be considered the expert for that package.
<slytherin> persia: Since I have already uploaded package to revu is it ok if I mention that in bug or do I still need to attach debdiff/interdiff?
<persia> slytherin: Some of the sponsors will demand you generate the diff.  Some will go do it for you.  If you don't attach the diff, be prepared for someone to complain (although they may not).
<slytherin> persia: I will do it anyway
<slytherin> persia: As to debian package, there is bug in debian for long time to update the package. It was logged by a friend for last upstream version in February. No activity there and since I don't have access to any debian system, I can not do it myself. :-(
<persia> slytherin: Which package?
<slytherin> gnusim8085
<persia> 87 days old :)
<persia> slytherin: The maintainer looks to be active.  You might set up a sid chroot, build a candidate, and ask them if they'd be willing to look at the changes at get it in.
<slytherin> persia: Wait, let me check
<slytherin> persia: Some confusion on my part. The version mentioned in bug is 10 months old but the bug is not so old. :-)
<persia> slytherin: Understood.  No worries.  Still, it's been a while, and the new update may be useful.  Do you distribute a tar.gz upstream?
<slytherin> persia: Yes I do.
<persia> slytherin: Great.  Sometimes it's troublesome to do an update in Ubuntu when Debian will update soon, as repacking orig.tar.gz files can lead to differing checksums.  If you distribute an official orig.tar.gz, that risk goes away.
<slytherin> :-)
<slytherin> persia: files bug 176521
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 176521 in gnusim8085 "New upstream version available (1.3.2)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/176521
<persia> slytherin: That looks like a well-formatted bug.  I sponsor in FIFO mode, so there's a heap of other bugs I'll dig at first.  I'd guess it's probably a couple days before that gets uploaded (we're running a little slow right now), unless someone is concentrating on new upstreams and hits it sooner.
<slytherin> persia: Thanks. :-)
<Kopfgeldjaeger> could someony have look at avidemux@revu? the  version in feisty and gutsy is _very_ outdated. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=avidemux
<persia> Kopfgeldjaeger: upgraded packages on REVU tend to get ignored.  You may have better luck submitting an interdiff in a bug to the sponsors queue.
<slytherin> Kopfgeldjaeger: Are you targetting that package for feisty/gutsy?
<slomo> siretart: iirc you asked me to test a new ffmpeg snapshot some days ago? where was it again? :)
<Kopfgeldjaeger> slytherin: no. hardy.
<persia> Supremus: Thanks for all your help with the SRU testing.  It really helps to get the fixes into the repositories.
<Supremus> persia, :D
<Supremus> persia, could you please see my bugfix?
<Supremus> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/twill/+bug/176435
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 176435 in twill "python-twill missing a dependency" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<Supremus> persia, sorry for ma bad english
<persia> Supremus: It's currently #35 in my view of the sponsoring queue.  Looks relatively sane.
<persia> Supremus: Don't worry about your English: while it's always valuable to study languages, as long as people understand, you've achieved the primary goal :)
<Supremus> persia, ok
<persia> Could anyone point me at a Debian package removal log?  I usually use the PTS, but I'm currently looking at a package that appears to only have ever been uploaded to "unstable", yet lacks a PTS entry.
<Lutin> stdin: think you might be interested in bug #172636
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 172636 in amarok2 "amarok2 FTBFS" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172636
 * persia finds http://ftp-master.debian.org/removals.txt and asks others to ignore the previous request
<geser> persia: perhaps the package never was in Debian? which one are you looking at?
<persia> geser: Yeah.  That was it.  It's showfsck, which was apparently sync'ed back in the days of apt-get.org fun.
<siretart> slomo: svn.debian.org, pkg-multimedia repo, the experimental branch
<slomo> siretart: where's the tarball for which this was created? :)
<siretart> slomo: i've disabled 2 altivec quilt patches. no idea if that was a clever move
<slytherin> Supremus: While you are at it, you may want to add 'Homepage' field. ;-)
<siretart> slomo: on my laptop at home. create it yourself by using the upstream svn trunk
<siretart> slomo: and svn up -r {20071007}
<slomo> ok :)
 * persia encourages get-orig-source in debian/rules to make this transparent
<slomo> siretart: i can't test on ppc though... mine is broken :/ how much did the api change?
<siretart> slomo: mount the debian branch on it and run debian/strip.sh to disable the mpeg encoders
<siretart> slomo: I've rebuilt all ffmpeg using packages in debian
<bluekuja> good morning everyone
<bluekuja> heya siretart, slomo, persia, geser
<siretart> yesterday, and  didnt notice a single ftbfs due  to api changes
<bluekuja> :)
<geser> persia: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-changes-auto/2005-October/001421.html
<geser> persia: auto-synced from dept-info.labri.fr
<slomo> siretart: even new gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg that builds against it? great :)
<geser> Hi bluekuja
<slomo> siretart: why does the ffmpeg option to list all codecs still list h263 as supported for encoding btw?
<persia> geser: Yep.  New version now hosted on http://www-id.imag.fr/Laboratoire/Membres/Danjean_Vincent/deb.html#showfsck, but context was lost due to the change to only pulling from Debian.
<siretart> slomo: ive bounced you the buildlog
<slomo> thanks
<siretart> slomo: I think that should be fixed now in the experimental branch
<siretart> slomo: needs more research for a  definite answer
<geser> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ has now also some per-arch stats and is valid XHTML 1.1
<persia> \o/
<DktrKranz> geser, great!
<slomo> siretart: looks good (the build log)
<bluekuja> slangasek, around?
<siretart> slomo: need to leave now, please mail me your findings
<Lutin> geser: cool :)
<siretart> slomo: I plan an upload to experimantal rsn
<slomo> siretart: will do... and an upload to exp would be nice too so we can get some wider tseting :)
<persia> bluekuja: It's very early in the morning there.  You might have a bit to wait.
<Lutin> geser: was thinking too: a BTS link might be useful, to check quickly if a FTBFS fix has been uploaded to debian
<slangasek> yes, you might have to wait a minute or two
<persia> heh
<bluekuja> slangasek, haha :)
<bluekuja> slangasek, how are you? everything fine?
<slangasek> my eyelids are drooping and you probably have about 2 minutes of my attention before I wander to bed :)
<bluekuja> slangasek, about fische, I found out that the build system created upstream, was unable to support all the archs, so I wanted to restrict them for a while
<slangasek> ah
<bluekuja> I was in contact with upstream about that, so I guess I'll have to send him a reminder-mail
<slangasek> in that case, I may end up having a look at the package to try to get it ported
<bluekuja> slangasek, that would be simply great :)
<slangasek> ... but not until after I sleep.  G'night. :)
<imbrandon> gnight slangasek
<bluekuja> good night mate, ping me again when you gonna wake up
<geser> Lutin: I've already a quick-search for PTS in my firefox :) But I could add a BTS link for each package if it helps
<DktrKranz> hey imbrandon, any news for the meeting?
<geser> Lutin: where in the row should it be added? at the end?
<imbrandon> DktrKranz: the sru meeting ?
<Lutin> geser: aah :) . was just a thought anyway, don't know if there are other developers that would find useful
<DktrKranz> imbrandon, that one
<imbrandon> DktrKranz: 2100 UTC today
<DktrKranz> ok, saturday night may wait a bit :D
<imbrandon> :)
<DktrKranz> on #ubuntu-meeting
<DktrKranz> ?
<persia> DktrKranz/imbrandon: There was an interesting request earlier that I wasn't sure how to answer: specifically someone subscribed both U-U-S and ~motu-sru to a bug.  Does the SRU team approve or approve & upload?
<Lutin> geser: the place doesn't matter much, as long as it's there :)
<DktrKranz> persia, related to spe?
<imbrandon> persia: typicly only approve
<persia> DktrKranz: You seem to get the same bugmail as I :)
<DktrKranz> hehe
<persia> imbrandon: OK.  I'd like to keep the U-U-S queue clean: what's the best way to coordinate to not miss things?
<geser> Lutin: do you want a link to the BTS or PTS or both?
 * persia would prefer PTS if there was only one link.
<imbrandon> persia: in the past only ACK unless specicly stated in the bug when acking that they would upload it, but really u-u-s shouldnt be subscribed untill its ready, e.g in this cased acked
<Lutin> persia , geser : right, PTS might be better
<DktrKranz> persia, not sure if a motu-sru member should upload it as well after approving it, but it should be worth discussing it
<imbrandon> did that make sense
<persia> imbrandon: OK.  So if U-U-S gets an SRU request, it should be resubscribed to the SRU team, and when it gets ACK'd, the SRU team will resubscribe UUS if it needs sponsoring for upload?
<imbrandon> right
<persia> DktrKranz: Does that make sense to you?
<DktrKranz> persia, it does to me
<persia> OK.  Let's go with that as a provisional policy for the next 7 hours, and you guys can confirm at your meeting, and publish an update in your new policy report to the ML.
<imbrandon> basicly that makes it so ~ubuntu-dev filed bugs get "one" eyebal ( as should be ) and contributor uploads get atleaste 2
<imbrandon> eyebals
<DktrKranz> what about writing a brief agenda on the wiki (or gobby, or whatever) to have a list of things to discuss?
<imbrandon> DktrKranz: yup, just waking up myself but i'm actualy doing that right now
<DktrKranz> imbrandon, thanks
<imbrandon> persia: yup
<DktrKranz> please, point me to it once ready
<imbrandon> DktrKranz: ok, i'll "publish" it here in a few, lemme wake up just a tad and dig out my txt from last night
<DktrKranz> \o/ dapper -> hardy upgrade failure!
<imbrandon> persia: right see that gets more eyes on a contributor sru patch without having to make it explisit policy ( wich is good imho , i'm a fan of strong but minimal policy ) anyhow imho it *should* go like this ( will get confirmed in the meeting today )
<imbrandon> ...
 * txwikinger wonders what to work on next
<imbrandon> motu files bug --> sru ack --> motu upload ; contributor files bug, sru ack; u-u-s review and upload
<imbrandon> persia: see what i mean ?
<persia> imbrandon: I'd agree.  Further, I don't think the SRU team is necessarily the people who want to spend time chasing new contributor processes, and I don't think the UUS team is necessarily the people who can make a good determination on SRU.
<imbrandon> right
<DktrKranz> +1
<persia> txwikinger: unmet or incorrect dependencies.  See the debcheck page on qa.ubuntuwire.com
<txwikinger> ok persia
<DktrKranz> additionally, as pitti said, before going for a SRU, we must be sure development version is fine, we don't want to file a new SRU for a regression
<imbrandon> DktrKranz: right, but thats part of what the sru team should be checking when acking a bug/request , e.g. its great of the filer does that but ultimately its our duty to check
<persia> imbrandon: I think you guys should not only be checking, but also testing.  If you can't reproduce, you'll need to get lots of logs, etc.
<imbrandon> persia: right, i simplified that a bit but yea
<DktrKranz> It's hard to ACK something without testing it, IMHO
<persia> DktrKranz: No, it's just three characters.  Very easy :)
<persia> (note that this might mean a change of membership in the ACK'ing team :) )
<DktrKranz> that's why TEST CASE must be accurate, and bug description update accordingly
<imbrandon> speaking of ... the flashplugin-nonfree introduces a new regression that might not be avoidable, eg. require an aditional sru for another package
<DktrKranz> persia, typing A, C, K with SHIFT key pressed is very hard...
<imbrandon> lol
<persia> DktrKranz: If you're caps lock doesn't work, try enabling sticky keys
<DktrKranz> and I'm not a caps-lock supporter...
<persia> s/you're/your/
<imbrandon> heh i'm for all lowercase and all only ascii keyboards :)
 * imbrandon ducks
 * DktrKranz ponders to buy that wooden-made bird Homer Simpson used to manage his tasks on the nuclear plant
<imbrandon> DktrKranz: anyhow the document i'm writeing is basicly a copy paste from the current main + universe SRU page with the universe stuff all deleted initialy and then going back and noting the 1 or 2 subtle diffrences in the two pilicys , e.g. my goal is to make it ONE policy with only team name changes basicly
<imbrandon> wiki/SRU
<DktrKranz> and it really should be that way
<imbrandon> yea
<DktrKranz> we don't want to have two different procedures, with many differences between them
<persia> imbrandon: One key difference I see is that for universe FTBFS and cannot-install bugs seem to get handled, whereas for main, they aren't usually considered.
<imbrandon> well at one time we did, this will be the 4th universe pilicy i have seen come to light since i have been involved with ubuntu, and the more we can keep it the same the better we are imho just from past experince
<persia> imbrandon: Only the 4th?  Aren't you glossing over the SRU-policy-of-the-week part of the feisty cycle?
<imbrandon> persia: yea, basicly the same as main + these key points ( only ) .... team name changes and a few additions to what qualifies for an SRU , eg. FTBFS bugs
<imbrandon> persia: hehe yea i dont really consider that one
<imbrandon> lol
<DktrKranz> mh, SRU policy states only regressions or data losses are good candidates for updates
<DktrKranz> I think FTBFS can be managed by backports
<imbrandon> DktrKranz: right, and for universe we want to make just a few additions to that , that basicly is the only change to the main policy
<imbrandon> DktrKranz: not really FTBFS are normaly regressions
<imbrandon> but minor regressions that main normaly dont think applies
<DktrKranz> ah, good point
<persia> DktrKranz: For main, that is true, but main doesn't have FTBFS or cannot-install as there are careful rebuild tests and install tests of all the packages after feature freeze.
<DktrKranz> so, basically we can consider good candidates bugs which have at least "medium" priority
<persia> Isn't "Medium" the default priority?
<imbrandon> hrm depending on the person that triaged it possibly heh
<imbrandon> persia: no, none is afaik
<imbrandon> or "unset" or soemthing
<DktrKranz> I'm referring to "medium" for motu-sru
<persia> I think you'd want a set of rules for bug class, rather than using Priority.
<imbrandon> yea
<persia> My thought for the set would be: data loss, regression, FTBFS, cannot-install, license violation, completely fails to work (e.g. Bug #108559)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 108559 in skencil "skencil core dumps when I attempt to load it (dup-of: 81567)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/108559
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 81567 in skencil "skencil crashes on startup with a SIGSEGV in free()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/81567
<imbrandon> ok i got a serouis question here, policy dissussion aside for a moment, ok the flashplugin-nonfree update , it works perfect for geko based browsers, but totaly breaks konqueror, sooooooooooo
<DktrKranz> Gotta leave for a while, my father manages to adjust our christmas tree, he's unhappy of the lights...
<DktrKranz> I'll read logs later
<DktrKranz> see you
<imbrandon> do we knowingly break konq or there is a patch but its pretty invasive and untested
<persia> imbrandon: I'd be opposed (even though I use gecko).  That's just very risky.
<imbrandon> persia: well then anyone that dosent use hardy wont be able to use flash
<imbrandon> thats a tough call too
<persia> imbrandon: No, anyone who installs gutsy after the upstream change will have to use a free flash viewer.
<imbrandon> e.g. its not a bug in flash, its a bug in konq that flash exposes
<persia> Or rather, Ubuntu doesn't support them.  They can download from upstream, but that might break their browser.
<imbrandon> sooo really we should do a konq sru too, but the code is new and untested and actualy in svn only
<persia> imbrandon: Why a konq SRU?  Is there a chance of data loss?  Is it a regression?  (konq is main)
<imbrandon> persia: yea ubuntu dosent support them, but ummm try telling that to the users heh
<persia> imbrandon: I do, sometimes accompanied by hints for a workaround, and warnings that it might break things.
<imbrandon> persia: yea i know, this was discussed in #k-devel yeaterday, i dont like any of the awnsers but one of them we will have to do, its a case of lesser of the evils here i'm afaraid
<joejaxx> Good Morning All
<imbrandon> ello joejaxx
<persia> imbrandon: I'd agree with that.  I think the lesser evil is using free flash viewers in gutsy (gutsy gnash is pretty good), but I'm opinionated, which is part of why it's not my decision :)
<imbrandon> persia: hrm but that still makes a regression from dapper onword, this is for all supported releases atm
<imbrandon> and gnash isnt in all
<imbrandon> e.g. feist on? maybe edgy but the edgy version likely isnt the one that can do video etc
<persia> imbrandon: Ah.  True.  For < gutsy, gnash isn't really as good, and for dapper or edgy, nothing really is useable.
<imbrandon> right
<persia> imbrandon: On the other hand, konqeror is fairly popular :(
<imbrandon> i mean i hate flash too, actualy i dont hate flash i just hate gnash is ready or arround sooner, but anyhow , the users do see it as important and there is a vast number of sites that use it, its kinda a psudo standard as much as we know it shouldnt be
<imbrandon> persia: yea, not supporting konq is just as much of a deadly mistake as not updating flash
<imbrandon> rock + hardplace
 * joejaxx remembers back in 1999 when it was "cool" to have your entire site in flash
<persia> joejaxx: Some people still think that way
 * joejaxx does like that era :P
<imbrandon> lol
<joejaxx> persia: yeah
<imbrandon> geocities homepages
<imbrandon> :)
<joejaxx> imbrandon: hahaha
<StevenK> I remember when embedded MIDI was cool
 * StevenK twitches
<imbrandon> i had a geocities homepage ( before it was bought by yahoo ) about c64 basic programign heheh
<persia> imbrandon: Not only.  nokia.co.jp is mostly flash, and not gnash-friendly.
<imbrandon> StevenK: heh
<joejaxx> StevenK: LOL yeah
<persia> Or maybe that got fixed (oops)
<imbrandon> hrm there IS one other alternative
<StevenK> I think any Nokia site is mostly flash?
<imbrandon> bear with me ... i just thought about this
<joejaxx> you would have to sift through the webpages trying to figure out which one was playing the music
<imbrandon> now the current flash9 releases is r115 , r48 ( last released ) works with konq
<imbrandon> well adobe only makes avail r115 in the download url
<imbrandon> BUT
<persia> StevenK: I thought so as well, but apparently .jp was sorted recently.  Still flash-heavy, but now navigable.  I suspect it's to avoid breaking everyones phone.
<imbrandon> adobe also makes r48 and others avail in a "archive" zip thats 65+ MB
<imbrandon> sooooooo we could have the package check the release its installed to and optionaly get the r48 for konq
<imbrandon> but thats full of holes and a large download
<StevenK> persia: Yeah, I this feeling that the phone browser got locked in a room with the web site people, the door was locked, and they were told they were going to be let out until they reached an understanding.
<imbrandon> e.g. for someone who has ubuntu but konqueror installed
<imbrandon> thoughts ?
<StevenK> imbrandon: Then the package installation should fail with "Konqueror SUCKS!"
<persia> StevenK: Not that drastic.  About 6 months ago most phones were upgraded to 640x480, which suddenly made the normal web accessible (320x240 still used special sites), and a lot of customers now use their phones as their primary browsers (nothing else to do on the train).
 * StevenK hides
<joejaxx> StevenK: lol
<imbrandon> StevenK: heh that was my initial thought, but then we have the issue of people that have konq and ff installed
<StevenK> persia: I don't, since Telstra charge something like $0.30 per KB
<joejaxx> StevenK: oh wow
<imbrandon> StevenK: robery
<StevenK> (I'm not sure of the exact number, but it's *hideous*)
<StevenK> imbrandon: Apparently, Telstra *need* to make $200 million profit
<persia> StevenK: Right.  That might be why nokia.jp is more standards compliant than nokia.au.  Unlimited mobile dual-ISDN goes for about 6000 yen a month, and phone data charges are around 2 yen per 10,000 packets.
<Tilllinux> hiho. If I want to create a GUI for, let's say, CloneZilla, what do I have to know to create one?
<persia> Tilllinux: Do you mean building a XUL app?
<imbrandon> whats clonezilla ? a cli app ?
<imbrandon> so what do you all think aobut the "archive" work arround ? and some of the wholes it makes
<imbrandon> w/wholes/holes
 * txwikinger likes Konq
<imbrandon> basicly it would make r48 only available on dapper to gutsy ( at the cost of a 65+ mb download ) and r115 avail on hardy
<persia> imbrandon: Actually, if you could leverage that to use the version of flash that was originally shipped for that release, you'd likely get a supportable solution.
<persia> s/that release/each release/
<imbrandon> yea r48 is what is currently in all supported releases via other SRU's
<imbrandon> s/other/past
 * persia notes that people in places with less high or more costly bandwidth may have a different opinion
<Tilllinux> I'd like to either create a simple gui for clonezilla (http://drbl.sourceforge.net/screenshot/?in_path=/01_Clonezilla) or just a simple script that provides all information needed to start backup'ing/restoring (for our school... we've tried acronis snap deploy but... umm... it isn't reliable [like, clients stop to restore at 99,99% ;) ])
<persia> imbrandon: Right, but in the future, you could track versions for releases properly, and not keep updating just because upstream did.
<imbrandon> persia: exactly
<imbrandon> the one thing i would have to do would be make it download the zip of the archive regardless and check the md5 of the file inside, not the archive as a whole, as new "archives" releases are likely to be added
<persia> imbrandon: The problem is places like Australia that request vital organs in exchange for large downloads or places like Ghana, where it might be faster to drive somewhere to carry around that much data rather then downloading it.
<imbrandon> yup, but the more i think about it, it might be the best tradeoff, users still wont be happy because they will have an "old version" but its better than having no version or SRUing untested svn code
<persia> Tilllinux: Looks like you could use just about any GUI creation tools to make a GUI.  If you don't mind GTK, I'd suggest that any of the glade bindings would probably ease your workflow.  On the other hand, this isn't really the best place to ask general programming questions.
<StevenK> persia: Yes, that's exactly the problem. Telstra ask for vital organs for large downloads and you only have so many.
<imbrandon> let me check the exact size, irrc its right at 65 mb
<persia> StevenK: How discriminating are they?  Could a shovel help?
<imbrandon> persia: hahahaha
<StevenK> persia: Oh dear.
 * persia apologises for the poor taste, and will refrain in the future
<imbrandon> StevenK / persia : yea between 61 and 85 MB via http://kb.adobe.com/selfservice/viewContent.do?externalId=tn_14266&sliceId=2
<imbrandon> ouch
<imbrandon> but thats the "safest" alternative
<imbrandon> imho
<persia> imbrandon: You might try a ML post to ask the question: options being 1) don't update, 2) break konq, 3) patch konq, 4) huge download.
<imbrandon> good idea
<imbrandon> persia: btw while i wait for my mail client to start heh, that contract was "typod" hehe i'm closer to the 75 to 78 i'm accustomed to lol
<imbrandon> just fyi :)
<persia> imbrandon: Right.  This is why it's good to get signed paper copies before asking questions :)
<imbrandon> heh yea
<joejaxx> does anyone even honor ubuntu certification yet? lol
<imbrandon> ok i always forget the diffrence between -devel and -devel-discuss, what one is approperate
<imbrandon> joejaxx: from LPI ?
<imbrandon> and honor in what way ? ehhe
<joejaxx> imbrandon: as in does it hold any weight yet :P
<joejaxx> or are people taking it seriously i should say
<imbrandon> i would guess as serouisly as RH cert form LPI as its the same people
<persia> joejaxx: Those (benighted) employers who attach weight to certifications likely will consider an Ubuntu certification when considering one for a position involving Ubuntu.
<imbrandon> imho none are worth anything, but thats just me
<imbrandon> well not worth anything is wrong, not worth what people use them as/for
<imbrandon> is better
<persia> imbrandon: -devel is for developer communication.  -devel-discuss is for general discussion by anyone about the traffic on -devel and a redirect for posts to -devel by non-developers.  Use -devel.
<imbrandon> k
<StevenK> imbrandon: A lot of employers tend to put weight on an RHCE, for example
<persia> dfiloni: You were looking for me earlier.  I suspect about wxwidgets2.8.  I can't build it due to issues on my local system: you'll need another sponsor.  The changes I last reviewed looked good and clean.
<imbrandon> StevenK: yea, really depends on the the place, i know the place i work for looks at all certs ( MS and LPI and RH* and CCN* etc ) as shredder material, but i konw thats not the case some places
<dfiloni> persia: sponso? I'm a newbie, I don't understand what  you said me...
<imbrandon> they place experince at a much much higher sot
<imbrandon> spot*
 * persia is aware of employers that consider certifications on a CV to be negative, and other employers who will not employ people not certified in the relevant technologies.
<imbrandon> yea
<persia> dfiloni: Which don't you understand?
<dfiloni> persia: I don't understand why I will need another sponsor
<dfiloni> persia: and who is a sponsor...
<StevenK> imbrandon: Hah, way cool.
<persia> dfiloni: Because I'm unable to upload without changing my local system configuration, and I don't want to change it when there are other sponsors.  A sponsor is someone who uploads contributions from people who are not members of ~ubuntu-dev.
<dfiloni> persia: ok, no problem
<geser> persia, Lutin: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs has now a PTS and BTS link
<persia> geser: Looks nice.
<Lutin> geser: great ! thanks a lot :)
 * persia encourages someone else to sponsor bug #133888 for dfiloni
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133888 in wxwidgets2.8 "upgrade wxwidgets2.8 to the 2.8.6.1 release" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/133888
<zul> morning
<joejaxx> zul: Good Morning :)
<zul> hi joejaxx
<imbrandon> moins zul
<zul> morning imbrandon
<geser> persia: what needs to be still done for wxwidgets? just test-build and upload or also some more review?
<jimqode> hello, I just uploaded a package to my ppa, but i don't see it in the build queue. is it normal?
<persia> geser: just test-build and upload.  I can only build locally, but was able to test successfully with both a local build and pochu's build.
<persia> I just don't have enough capacity in my LVM chroot for a proper test-build.
<geser> how much space does it need?
<imbrandon> jimqode: yes, it take some $time for it to show, where $time == 20 minutes to 24 hours
<imbrandon> hard to tell
<jimqode> imbrandon, thank you!
<persia> geser: Not sure.  Somewhere around 8GB I think.
<persia> (including base tools, build-deps, etc.)
<jimqode> something else, which version of ubuntu are my packages going to be compiled for? I want them for gutsy but I haven't seen any options for that.
<persia> jimqode: Which version did you list in your changelog entry?
<jimqode> i cant see a version: wmii (3.6+debian-3~jimqode) unstable; urgency=low
<geser> persia: then I don't have enough free space either. I've a new 500 GB disk, but I haven't moved my system to it yet.
<persia> geser: That's the problem with wxwidgets.  It's a huge and ugly package (although dfiloni has mostly cleaned up the new one), so nobody likes to work with it.
<jimqode> persia, am i doing something wrong?
<geser> are we interested in gcc-4.3 patches from Debian for hardy? or is this something for hardy+1?
<persia> jimqode: You're asking for compilation against "unstable".  I don't know how Soyuz interprets that.
<geser> iirc uploads for unstable get rejected
<persia> geser: We applied quite a few gcc-4.3 patches for gutsy, and I think I remember a couple from feisty.  Better to push now.
<persia> geser: By PPAs?
<jimqode> persia, what are the keywords i can use? version numbers or names? What should i write there to compile against gutsy?
<persia> jimqode: "gutsy"
<jimqode> persia, thank you
<geser> persia: ok, I will see if it's safe to sync the package if I see gcc-4.3 fixes in debian uploads
<dfiloni> anyone can sponsor bug  #133888?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133888 in wxwidgets2.8 "upgrade wxwidgets2.8 to the 2.8.6.1 release" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/133888
<imbrandon> persia / StevenK / * : email sent to -devel explainign the issue and possible outcomes , sugestions welcome
 * persia is very much not an SRU expert, and doesn't use non-free flash, so refrains
<imbrandon> persia: even a proofread to make sure i got the point correct might be helpfull hehe
 * persia polls the mail queue, wondering if it was sent from the right address
<imbrandon>  yea it was, i just checked
 * imbrandon checks again
<imbrandon> ahh its still in my outbox, mail is being slow
<imbrandon> one sec
 * imbrandon kicks evolution
 * persia suggests imbrandon may want a different client.  mailx is known to send reliably, for instance.
<DktrKranz> telnet is better
<imbrandon> yea i've been contemplating using mutt
<imbrandon> anyhow sent now, i just used the gmail webinterface
<persia> DktrKranz: The only issue with telnet is that it doesn't auto-retry in case of network failure, but it's at least simple.
<imbrandon> persia: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2007-December/024877.html
<imbrandon> finaly made it
<dfiloni> anyone can sponsor bug  #133888?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133888 in wxwidgets2.8 "upgrade wxwidgets2.8 to the 2.8.6.1 release" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/133888
<pochu> imbrandon: you mention dapper->gutsy updates in your post, but they aren't supported, are they?
<imbrandon> pochu: e.g. seperate sru for all releases
<imbrandon> no upgrades from reelease to release
<DktrKranz> pochu, IIRC only LTS -> LTS upgrades are supported
<persia> dfiloni: For all that I support your candidate, and would like to see an update at least as much as you, I recommend you don't ask too often.  Some sponsors avoid uploading for people who ask a lot.
<dfiloni> persia: thanks for your hints, I really appreciate it
<persia> imbrandon: Just to check, what does "break konqueror" really mean?  Is only flash broken, or does it have wider effects?
<imbrandon> persia: segfaults the browser
<persia> dfiloni: Thank you for taking so much trouble with that unloved library.  Getting the new version in should close a lot of other bugs.
<imbrandon> if a flash page is tried to be visited
<persia> imbrandon: Only when visiting flash sites, or always?
<DktrKranz> persia, I'm not confortable with wxwidgets, but would like to help dfiloni somehow. Is there something I need to know to review wxwidgets?
<persia> Ah.  Yes.  That would be bad :(
 * persia looks at the bug again
<persia> DktrKranz: Build it in a safe environment.  Install it.  Test a client for the python binding (which also hits GTK & base).  filezilla or amule are probably the two most popular clients.
<persia> DktrKranz: pochu has done all of the above, and I've done items 2 & 3, so it's pretty safe.
<pochu> persia: filezilla and amule don't use the python bindings
<pochu> I tested with phatch for the python bindings, fwiw
<DktrKranz> probably boa-constructor does
<DktrKranz> it uses 2.6, but should be compatible
 * persia has misread the output of apt-cache rdepends and apologises for both the confusion & insufficient testing
<pochu> persia: I tested it, so don't worry ;)
<persia> DktrKranz: 2.6 and 2.8 are parallel installs, and all the clients are built against one or the other, so unless you want to port boa-constructor, you're better off with something else.
<persia> (they are also not compatible APIs: WX is good about reversioning for incompatible changes, but less good about having easy transition plans)
<pochu> aMule is built against wx2.8
<Iwanowitch> Mercury (a programming language) has a new version upstream, and I'd like to see it in Ubuntu. However, it hasn't been maintained for about 3 years now. What should I do? File a bug? Get in touch with Debian maintainers?
<pochu> and Filezilla too
<DktrKranz> good point
<persia> Iwanowitch: What's the package name?
<Iwanowitch> persia: mercury
<pochu> It is in the repos, isnt it?
<pochu>    mercury | 0.11.0.rotd.20040511-5ubuntu1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com hardy/universe Packages
<Iwanowitch> In universe, yes.
<pochu> Oh, you mean the new release
<Iwanowitch> 2004 as you can see.
<pochu> Iwanowitch: file a bug then.
<persia> Iwanowitch: I'd suggest preparing an update candidate for Ubuntu.  The Debian maintainer doesn't appear to be very active (I may well be mistaken).
<pochu> Iwanowitch: and tag it 'upgrade'
<zul> imbrandon: how is the snow?
<imbrandon> zul: i havent went outside yet, but looking out the window about 2 inches so far and still comming
<Iwanowitch> I'll be taking a look at it, will probably have more questions. Thanks :)
<zul> thats not too bad i thought you were suppose to get alot
<persia> Iwanowitch: For the update, it would be worth trying to make sure all of http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?src=mercury are also closed, as some of them are considered sufficient to block release.
<persia> Iwanowitch: Also, I'd recommend using a real release, rather than a rotd version.  That appears to be one of the reasons why the package is having trouble.
<imbrandon> zul: yea they called for upto 12 inches
<imbrandon> seems most of it missed me
<persia> imbrandon: Seems reasonable, aside from my uncertainty above.  Usual comments about grammar, capitalisation, and spelling apply :)
<ScottK> imbrandon: You have mail (about the Flash thing).
<persia> When does Edgy support stop again?  April?
<pochu> Yes.
<dfiloni> pochu: do you tried if the new version of wxwidgets2.8 (2.8.6.1) fix amule's bugs?
<dfiloni> *did you try
<imbrandon> ScottK: thanks, reading now
<pochu> dfiloni: I tried with one of them, which is reproducible, and it doesn't fix it.
 * persia grumbles at the introduction of a new package depending on wx2.4
<pochu> persia: how are your plans of getting rid of wx2.4?
<dfiloni> pochu: ok...
<persia> pochu: I'm basically stuck.  I don't understand ctsim well enough to port it, I'm not excited about trying to fix ecos SVN, as I don't like new snapshots of something that the devs don't think is suitable for use, and I'm not going to touch gnue-*.  survex is on my todo list, but with the other issues, it's not a high priority.
<persia> On the other hand, this new package gets hit now to see if simple brute-force can prevent the problem growing.
<pochu> persia: should we get a CVS snapshot of amule in? 2.2.0 has been frozen for a long time, but no final release yet...
 * ScottK cheers brute force.
<pochu> persia: request a removal for all of them? ;)
 * pochu hides
<persia> pochu: Any guess from upstream as to when there might be one?
<pochu> persia: nope. Let me see if I can get some news...
<txwikinger> how do I handle a case when for an upgrade of a package an additional package is needed which exists in debian but not in ubuntu
<persia> pochu: For ecos, I'm thinking about it.  For gnue-*, the Debian maintainer is often in this channel, and keeps not wanting to talk about it.  For ctsim, there's really no alternative, and it meets a need.  For survex, I think it's soluable, just needs ~30 hours of porting work.
<persia> txwikinger: Best way is to try to pull the Debian package.  What's the dependency?
<txwikinger> locales-all
<txwikinger> it might also work with locales, but I am not sure
<persia> txwikinger: That's a special case.  Try to play with adjusting the dependencies, and test a bit.
<txwikinger> The build works (the package is libversion-perl)
 * persia wonders why on earth a package would build-depend on both libwxgtk2.4-dev and qt3-dev-tools
<persia> txwikinger: The build working is a good sign.  Adjust debian/control, rebuild, and test to see if the result works.
<txwikinger> Yes I did that
<persia> txwikinger: Does the result work?
<txwikinger> but I am not sure if I can extensively test the packages itself
<txwikinger> the build has some tests, and 4 are skipped
<txwikinger> but that looks independent of the dependency and looks ok
<txwikinger> I will try what it does if I get the debian package
<pochu> persia: LOL http://forum.amule.org/index.php?topic=13700.0
<persia> txwikinger: If you need wider testing, you can either put the patch somewhere and call for developers as testers, or submit to a PPA and ask for lots of testers.  Don't try with debian locales: Ubuntu varies on that on purpose.
<txwikinger> No I would try locales-all from debian
<txwikinger> we don't have that package
<persia> pochu: How clean are they?  If Festor is updating that often, maybe we should grab one of those (assuming the testing is OK).
<txwikinger> I tried with our locales instead
<persia> txwikinger: My confusion.  Still, Ubuntu locale handling is different, and we won't be able to pull from Debian.
<txwikinger> ok.. then I can leave that test
 * persia grumbles that jugglemater has to be added to the porting list :(
<pochu> persia: or maybe we could ask him to do the work in the archive ;)
<persia> pochu: Sounds reasonable.  Given that finding a place to upload seems to have been one of the problems.  I just like soft introductions: having 100 people suddenly complaining about policy violations isn't best :)
<pochu> persia: sorry? I can't understand that about policy violations and soft introductions. could you rephrase for me? my english isn't that good :/
<persia> pochu: Sorry.
<pochu> well I know what are policy violations but don't get the sense in that context ;)
<persia> pochu: The forum thread gives me the impression that a place to upload (like the archives) would be appreciated.
<pochu> heh, ok :)
<pochu> thank you
<persia> On the other hand, if you have time to gently review and discuss with upstream, I suspect that they will be happier than if they went straight to REVU.
<persia> Some people don't react well to having all the developers telling them they should do it differently when they already have lots of happy users.
<pochu> persia: festor isn't upstream, is just a contributor in ubuntu-es ;)
<persia> pochu: Ah.  Easier then :)
<pochu> I'll ask him when he connects again :)
<persia> pochu: Thanks.  Takes an application off your list, and puts it in the hands of someone with a clear and documented interest in chasing upstream :)
<pochu> persia: and who uses the given application ;)
<persia> pochu: That's good too :)
<persia> bigon: Please try to keep changelogs in version order: when pulling from UNRELEASED, it's likely good to mangle the last changelog entry, rather than adding a new one.
<slicer> Does anyone have time to do a review update of http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=mumble ? I'd kind of hoped to get the package done before the holidays.
<somerville32> slicer, I'm not a MOTU but I'll take a peak
<guest22_> Hi norsetto, I see you're back. I've fixed all of the problems with package "photoml" that you pointed out yesterday (and it now builds in a properly updated pbuilder). Would you mind taking another look?
<norsetto_> guest22: could you add a watch file?
<pkern> StevenK: Why shouldn't .la files be installed?
<norsetto_> guest22_: you should also update http://www.wohlberg.net/public/software/photo/photoml/
<norsetto_> guest22_: lintian warning on the source W: photoml source: binary-arch-rules-but-pkg-is-arch-indep
<guest22_> norsetto: excuse my ignorance: what's a watch file?
<LucidFox> guest22_> debian/watch
<LucidFox> a file that allows for automated search of new upstream versions with uscan
<pochu> see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/DebianWatch
<guest22_> norsetto: That must be something new - I'll look up the details and add one. I'll update the release on the homepage soon.
<pkern> Anyone who could give me a clue about libtool .la removals?
<norsetto_> pkern: only clue I can give you is that I was told not to add them in new -dev packages
<pkern> norsetto_: And the reasoning behind that?
<norsetto_> pkern: "because libtool is evil" whatever that means
<pkern> Heh.
<guest22_> LucidFox: Thanks for the details.
<norsetto_> pkern: In my case I also had a pkgconfig file, so it was not a big deal
<pkern> norsetto_: Now of course packages *might* also depend on the old libtool behaviour?
<pkern> I mean all I see is this bug report: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=451389
<ubotu> Debian bug 451389 in libglade "Please remove .la files from the package" [Normal,Open]
<pkern> And a changelog entry of StevenK where he announces that he'll do bad things to the libtool maintainers.
<pkern> Unhelpful that is.
<guest22_> norsetto: The lintian warning you mention doesn't appear on my system (dapper) or on the lintian output on REVU. What version did you run when you obtained that error?
<norsetto_> guest22_: 1.23.41~gutsy1 which is a backport of the hardy one
<guest22_> norsetto: OK, thanks, I'll look into that. Did you notice any other issues?
<somerville32> Does anyone have an i386 machine I can build on?
<norsetto_> pkern: yes, he was pretty upset about this (amongst others I believe): https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/libgcrypt11/+bug/139635
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 139635 in libgpg-error "[cryptsetup] library dependency in /sbin/cryptsetup" [Undecided,In progress]
<norsetto_> guest22_: yes, I'm compiling them all together and will post it to REVU
<guest22_> norsetto: Molte grazie
<norsetto_> guest22_: I guess pmldoc.html is the source for pmldoc.pdf ?
<norsetto_> guest22_: sorry, I'm having connection problems, did you see this: I guess pmldoc.html is the source for pmldoc.pdf ?
<guest22_> norsetto: No, pmldoc.html and pmldoc.pdf are both built from DocBook source.
<pochu> pkern: if you find some documentation about it (.la removal) I'd be interested in it :)
<guest22_> norsetto_: (Repeating in case of connection problems) No, pmldoc.html and pmldoc.pdf are both built from DocBook source.
<LaserJock> imbrandon: ping?
<imbrandon> pong
<LaserJock> I gotta run for some christmas shopping
<LaserJock> but I should be back before the meeting
<imbrandon> cool, pick me up a eeepc :)
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> kk
<LaserJock> I'm going to Cabela's, not sure if they have eeepcs
<LaserJock> ;-)
<warp10> Hi all!
<geser> somerville32: you don't have i386? which arch do you have?
<geser> somerville32: what about using PPA?
<somerville32> geser, I'm i386 but I have a 333mhz computer.
<geser> ok :)
<somerville32> geser, and I can't compile binaries on amd64 for my computer, can I?
<imbrandon> sure
<somerville32> geser, (I have access to amd64 computers for compiling)
<imbrandon> just setup a i386 chroot
<geser> sure, but you'd need an i386 pbuilder for that
<somerville32> How do I do that with sbuild?
<cyberix> Do Debian developers care about Ubuntu deadlines?
<pochu> Why should they care?
<cyberix> I'm not asking, if they should
<pochu> No
<pochu> Unless they are Ubuntu developers too ;)
<cyberix> Nmap 4.5 was released and I'm wondering, if it will be packaged in time for Hardy.
<pochu> !info nmap
<ubotu> nmap: The Network Mapper. In component main, is extra. Version 4.20-2 (gutsy), package size 732 kB, installed size 2640 kB
<pochu> !info nmap hardy
<ubotu> nmap: The Network Mapper. In component main, is extra. Version 4.20-3 (hardy), package size 730 kB, installed size 2640 kB
<Kmos> it's packaged on debian
<Kmos> need to wait for have it in hardy =)
<pochu> cyberix: you can request a sync - you will need a good reason in order to have it accepted.
<imbrandon> Kmos: wait for what ?
<geser> PTS lists 4.20-3 for nmap as the last version
<somerville32> Kmos, DIF is enacted
<pochu> Kmos: we are past DebianImportFreeze, so waiting won't help
<Kmos> pochu: i mean.. wait for someone of us to sync it =) hehe
<pochu>       nmap |     4.20-3 | http://ftp.de.debian.org sid/main Sources
<Kmos> and i think lamont changed it to zenamp as a new package in debian
<cyberix> Kmos: It is?
<imbrandon> pochu: and a good reason isnt so much needed untill FF
<Kmos> so it isn't at archive
<pochu> imbrandon: then why stop autosyncing? :)
<imbrandon> to begin stablizing the apps
<DktrKranz> and avoid to include more transitions which could be overlooked
<Kmos> nmap 	4.49~rc6-1
<Kmos> 4.50-1 source i386
<Kmos> http://ftp-master.debian.org/new.html
<Kmos> debian bug 456232
<ubotu> Debian bug 456232 in nmap "New upstream version 4.50" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/456232
<cyberix> I suppose some of the major highlights (the ones that come with a text paragraph) from http://insecure.org/stf/Nmap-4.50-Release.html might be good reasons.
<slicer> somerville32: Did you have any comments about mumble?
<somerville32> slicer, It looked decent
<somerville32> slicer, I only had time to look at the  diff though
<slicer> somerville32: Ok. Thanks :)
 * somerville32 wonders how to set up an i386 chroot
<geser> somerville32: with debootstrap
<geser> and the right options
<geser> somerville32: something like "debootstrap --arch i386 gutsy /path/where/chroot/to/store http://archive.ubuntu.com"
<\sh> moins
<\sh> phew...new intel p4 emt64 desktop is up and running :)
<pkern> There are still P4s? (:
<\sh> pkern, yepp...
<\sh> pkern, at least our old hardware from the company ,-()
<pkern> Heh.
<\sh> at least I can testbuild 64bit stuff again
<pkern> While my laptop is a bit clumsy it's fun with the repaired panel and faaaast...  :D
<\sh> pkern, but does it has a 500G sata hd? ;)
<pkern> \sh: Point.  Just 120G.
<pkern> Now 500G would be overly large anyway.
<pkern> I hardly fill the 400G disk attached to my slug.
<pkern> But for LVM snapshots and sbuild... heh. ;o)
<\sh> well, I just grabbed some old server hw from our company as well. 2x 19" Dual PIII 1GHz ...
<\sh> they have ide2scsi interfaces, so you can plug into plain ide hds
<\sh> s/into/in/
<pkern> \sh: Now that would be nice.  To hook up
<Chipzz> \sh: why does a *server* need a 19" screen? :P
<pkern> \sh: Gah.  "some" to the university network.
<\sh> problem: they need sdram, which I try to sdhoot on ebay the next dace
<pkern> *g*
<\sh> Chipzz, not? damn ;)
<Chipzz> or do you mean rackmountable? :)
<\sh> chillywilly, rackmountable
<\sh> gnarf
<\sh> Chipzz,
 * pkern giggles.
<\sh> I mean
<Chipzz> oh, that's making a whole lots more sense :)
 * Chipzz slaps self :P
<pkern> \sh: Of course you've got a rack in your basement :-P
<\sh> if anyone is interessted, next week I get hands on a complete rack, filled up with old HPÃ hardware
<\sh> s/HPÃ/HP/
<pkern> What's "old"? :-P
<\sh> 3 or 4 1U HP stuff, and at least 2x 5500
<\sh> fully functional
<Nafallo> ugh
<Nafallo> those are huge...
<Nafallo> ...and old :-P
<\sh> the complete rack with all the stuff inside 400 euro ,-)
<\sh> anyone wants to buy it?
<imbrandon> if it dident cost so much to ship i would
<\sh> well, you need to come to germany to pick it up, sadly ,-)
<imbrandon> yea, cant do that heh
 * pkern hasn't got the space.
<\sh> well, another idea is to call the guys from linux4africa project to take them to their place
 * Nafallo doesn't need old stuff :-)
<Nafallo> or hmm
<Nafallo> \sh: any Cobalts? :-)
<pkern> \sh: What kind of machines are those, anyway?
<\sh> pkern, I'll give you more infos on monday, with pictures and all the things someone needs
<\sh> pkern, the guy is giving me all the informations
 * chillywilly evals some \sh 
<\sh> Nafallo, no cobalts
<\sh> Nafallo, or you those machines which are shown in the middle of this article http://www.sourcecode.de/content/it
<\sh> gnarf..."buy"
<ScottK> Heya pkern.
 * \sh needs to adjust back from logitech to sun type 6 keyboard hacking 
<pkern> ScottK: Working on it, just hacking the changelog.  :-P
<ScottK> pkern: Great.  Thanks.
 * Nafallo waits for the page to load
 * ScottK just got lucky and got about 30 minuts to work on stuff due to schedule shifts.
<pkern> ScottK: uploaded
<pkern> ScottK: Do you have any documentation about .la removal?
<ScottK> pkern: I think you want StevenK
<ScottK> pkern: Thanks.
<\sh> Nafallo, need more netspeed? ,-)
<ScottK> Isn't tab completion fun.
<pkern> \sh: *cough*
<\sh> pkern, hmm?
<pkern> ScottK: That one sleeps. \:
<pkern> \sh: data center fun
<\sh> pkern, it's the past the datacenter cells are empty now...
<\sh> but the machines are still there
<Nafallo> \sh: yes please.
<\sh> 2796,50 Euros
<\sh> but you need to pick them up at the companies HQ
<\sh> 2 years ago their price was round about 12k per server
<pkern> \sh: If I had to start a web business... maybe.  ;o)
<\sh> pkern, na...you don't want that
<Nafallo> I like cobalts. they are blue :-)
<\sh> pkern, no crap...I had the whole ubuntu package archive (including source) + the whole SLES9 archive + opensuse archive *(2 archs) on those machienes...I didn't even had 1TB..I mirrored debian (i386 only but with source) for unstable stable oldstable...and it came just around 1.5TB
<\sh> Nafallo, I don't like cobalts, because I made them orange in the past...
<\sh> Nafallo, no joke...
<Nafallo> ?
<\sh> Nafallo, we had a job from cobalt and a local telco who wanted to sell orange cobalt cubes these days in the 90ties
<\sh> Nafallo, problem...the outside needed to be orange (which was not the problem) but the whole webstuff needed to be orange too...
<Nafallo> ah, cubes.
<Nafallo> I was talking about raqs :-)
<\sh> Nafallo, cobalt raqs were evil too, raq1 + 2 were crap because of logfiles and mails in the quota of the user
<pkern> \sh: Sure such machines are fun, just a little bit... costly. ;o)
<Nafallo> I'll probably run Ubuntu on mine ;-)
<Nafallo> she's named smurf btw.
<Nafallo> just waiting for the new fans to arrive now :-)
<\sh> and raq3 well...the fcking guy of development manager didn't include any of my packages...but he was sitting on my chair damn...that was before sun was buying cobalt
<Nafallo> then it will go in THE.
<Nafallo> and she's a RaQ 4 ;-)
<\sh> pkern, yepp...that's why we had to build new datacenter cells around those machines...even the racks are not standard
<\sh> pkern, rital racks -> you need 4U for those servers, but they are 3U high...
<\sh> pkern, so we needed special racks....
<Nafallo> combots...
<Nafallo> sounds like a DDoS-cluster :-P
<\sh> well, in the first days I rolled out 200 servers with FAI...with some seti@home client on it...top 3 in one week
<\sh> one 100 machines more and I would have beaten HP to death these days
<\sh> and I would have been the one who found the aliens who say always "NI!"
<Nafallo> nih!
<\sh> Nafallo, NI! they are aliens..they don't know the char "h" ;)
<Nafallo> \sh: sounds like french people ;-)
<\sh> Nafallo, yeah, aliens ,-)
 * \sh runs
<\sh> hmmm...what do I have to do to get flash on 64bit?
<Nafallo> install gnash?
<Nafallo> install flash?
<stgraber> aptitude install flashplugin-nonfree
<Nafallo> whichever
<stgraber> works fine with nspluginwrapper
<somerville32> Is it safe to delete /var/apt/archive ?
<Nafallo> do I want to upgrade my laptop to hardy yet?
<\sh> Download done.
<\sh> md5sum mismatch install_flash_player_9_linux.tar.gz
<\sh> The Flash plugin is NOT installed.
<\sh> cool
<Nafallo> somerville32: I wouldn't.
<Nafallo> \sh: -proposed I think
<Nafallo> somerville32: apt-get clean
<stgraber> \sh: yes, you can read about that on ubuntu-devel :) (basically new flash breaks with konqueror so we don't have an updated package yet)
<Nafallo> stgraber: I installed one just today?
<stgraber> Nafallo: I'm running Hardy here, that's like with any devel release. Everything works well if you now how to fix it and carefully choose what to upgrade :)
<\sh> anyways....I'll deal with it later on..now it's time for some relaxing duties...like cooking
<stgraber> hmm, maybe the new md5 is on -proposed but breaks konqueror, I haven't personally checked. I just saw the post on ubuntu-devel
<Nafallo> stgraber: I've done all the others except warty. I'll see if I pop by a DC tomorrow then :-). thanks.
<zxczxc> Alex look that- http://wolfgang-city.myminicity.com/ind
<imbrandon> \sh_away: flash in gusty is broke, i have an update in -proposed atm ( it breaks konqueror though only use it with firefox )
<Nafallo> imbrandon: why does it break konq though? that seems just weird :-)
<imbrandon> Nafallo: konq dosent support XEmbed
<imbrandon> and the new flash requires it
<Nafallo> imbrandon: how silly of it :-)
<imbrandon> hrm boring day
<DktrKranz> imbrandon, let's make it better with a shiny meeting, then :)
<tritium> imbrandon: you have time for boring?
<imbrandon> tritium: only today, its a layed back saturday :)
<tritium> imbrandon: good :)
<imbrandon> DktrKranz: not for 1 more hour correct ?
<DktrKranz> imbrandon, 21:00 UTC, IIRC
<DktrKranz> and it is :)
<imbrandon> mmm but i did manage to get alpine setup almost the way i want
<imbrandon> all imap folders showing, gpg signing , keymaps , etc :)
<DktrKranz> Ok, ping us when ready
<norsetto> what meeting was I missing?
<DktrKranz> norsetto, motu-sru, for defining new policy
<norsetto> DktrKranz: oh right
<norsetto> DktrKranz: I'm joining you then (in listen only mode)
<DktrKranz> norsetto, naaah.... propose mode is better :)
<imbrandon> jdong / TheMuso ping re: #ubuntu-meeting
<norsetto> DktrKranz: :-X
<DktrKranz> hoping it won't be a two-person meeting, sound like a rendez-vous to me :)
<norsetto> DktrKranz: if imbrandon is the bad and you are the good this doesn't leave me much choice .....
<DktrKranz> norsetto, the... erm... ugly?
<norsetto> DktrKranz: yeah ....
<Hippuu> hi, it seems that tuxguitar package in ubuntu is somehow broken
<Hippuu> there are no binaries of it in repos
<Hippuu> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tuxguitar/
<Hippuu> and it should probably be in universe instead of multiverse
<norsetto> !info tuxguitar gutsy
<ubotu> Package tuxguitar does not exist in gutsy
<norsetto> !info tuxguitar hardy
<ubotu> Package tuxguitar does not exist in hardy
<Hippuu> i can download it's sources with apt-get source
<somerville32> !info tuxguitar dapper
<ubotu> Package tuxguitar does not exist in dapper
<TheMuso> imbrandon: sorry I'm late
<geser> tuxguitar never built succesfully
<geser> Missing dependencies: libswt-gtk-3.2
<Hippuu> ubuntu has libswt3.2-gtk-java
<geser> Hippuu: if it's the same package, then someone needs to fix the build-dependency e.g. by providing a debdiff
<LaserJock> imbrandon: did I miss it?
<imbrandon> LaserJock: its going on right now
<imbrandon> come join us
<cbx33> hey peeps
<cbx33> how are network devices named/mapped in ubuntu?
<Nafallo> cbx33: #ubuntu
<nixternal> howdy peep!
<nixternal> err
<nixternal> Pete :)
<LaserJock> cbx33: hi Pete
<cbx33> hey duuudes
<cbx33> long time eh
<norsetto> network devices are named/mapped in ubuntu as pete?
<nixternal> no doubt cbx33, where you been hiding?
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> working
<nixternal> groovy...how ya likin' the job?
<cbx33> yeh it's good
<cbx33> i actually have money to buy stuff
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> the old job budgets were so tight I couldn't do anything
<nixternal> good, send me some then :)
<nixternal> I need a new bowling ball, can you provision that? :p
<cbx33> hehehe
<cbx33> howz it all going here nixternal, LaserJock ?
<nixternal> going about as good, or bad, as it always has I guess :)
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> brb
<cbx33> switching interface
<nixternal> working on different projects now just to stay sane
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> hey hey
<cbx33> back
<cbx33> sorry was resetting my gateway
<cbx33> now to see if the bug returns
<nixternal> heh
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> interesting
<cbx33> my WifiCard AP seems to be working better
<nixternal> that's always a good thing
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> hostapd + madwifi
<cbx33> I had a pci network card that was getting the eth1 transmit timeout error
<cbx33> and freezing all nics
<nixternal> wifi is just evil for me
<cbx33> let's see how long he lasts
<pkern> Hm, who was it who set up sbuild+LVM for package building?  persia?
 * Fujitsu has it working.
<geser> pkern: yes, iirc there is also wiki page
<huats> hey dear MOTUs
<geser> pkern: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SbuildLVMHowto
<cbx33> right brb
<norsetto> dear? who's dear?
<huats> norsetto: you :)
<huats> norsetto: how are you ?
<pkern> geser: Well I get an obscure "sid-26079e91-10ac-41a0-8a8a-b65b888726ba: Chroot not found".
<huats> norsetto: pfff lately it is so hard to find some time to come here...
<Fujitsu> Sounds like the snapshotting failed.
<pkern> Fujitsu: The snapshotting works fine with schroot alone.
<Fujitsu> I was about to suggest you try that.
<Fujitsu> Hm...
<Fujitsu> So schroot alone works fine?
<LaserJock> jdong, TheMuso, imbrandon: if we keep the tags then they should show up on http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html
<Fujitsu> You get a shell and all?
<TheMuso> LaserJock: SOunds fair.
<cbx33> w00t
<cbx33> i think it worked
<cbx33> hey TheMuso
<TheMuso> cbx33: Hey there.
<jdong> LaserJock: well that's a nice incentive to do so
<pkern> Fujitsu: Yep.
<pkern> Fujitsu: Hm gotcha.
<Fujitsu> pkern: How many times have you got that error?
<pkern> Removing the apt-get update hook I added due to a howto got me a meaningful error message.
<cbx33> w00t
<cbx33> who would have though
<Fujitsu> Aha.
<norsetto> huats: yes, so it was for me
<cbx33> a slightly knackered pci card
<pkern> But sbuild wouldn't cache the debs it downloads right?  Unlike {p,cow}builder?
<LaserJock> TheMuso: you know anything about that usplash-theme-ubuntustudio package in gutsy SRU?
<cbx33> could throw out WPA authentication on hostapd+madwifi for non Windows Xp clients
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Yes, it needs testing.
<TheMuso> LaserJock: I was the one who uplodaed to proposed.
<pkern> Fujitsu: I thought that I tried it in the sudo su - pkern shell to obtain the sbuild group, but due to root-users=pkern it did not display a failure message earlier.  OBscure that is.
<Fujitsu> pkern: Correct, it won't cache. I use apt-cacher, but one could fairly easily create a shared /var/cache/apt/archives
<TheMuso> LaserJock: I was planning on trying to get some wider testing, with a script to make usplash display with some text.
<pkern> Fujitsu: Hm ok.
 * TheMuso shared apt/cache/archives between several sbuild instances.
<TheMuso> s/shared/shares/
<pkern> TheMuso: through schroot?
<TheMuso> pkern: Yes.
<pkern> TheMuso: Aye.
<TheMuso> I just modified /etc/setup.d/10mount to mount an NFS share I have set up.
<LaserJock> holy cow, mldonkey has been in -proposed for 276 days!
<pkern> By the way: Anyone on feisty who could try a gajim SRU? (:
<TheMuso> Wow.
<cbx33> mldonkey?
<cbx33> oooh
<cbx33> LaserJock,
<cbx33> I got a question for you
<Fujitsu> pkern: I thought Nafallo was doing the SRU.
<cbx33> hang on 2 secs
<pkern> Fujitsu: Probably we mean different SRUs? o_O
<Fujitsu> pkern: Well, I know he was considering SRUing something about it a week or so ago.
<pkern> Hm, that matches, though.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: do you happen to know if LP can remove packages from a pocket yet?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: It can.
<Fujitsu> pitti cleaned out -proposed a while back.
<pkern> Nafallo: LP: #174406 -- Are you in a position to confirm that fix?
<Nafallo> Fujitsu: no. I've asked for backports.
<Nafallo> pkern: nope. only have gutsys around.
<cbx33> LaserJock, got a sec?
<Nafallo> pkern: looked sane though
<Fujitsu> Nafallo: Ah.
<pkern> Nafallo: Considering that it worked on our pool of Etch machines...  :-P
<Nafallo> pkern: :-)
<LaserJock> there are 9 packages in -proposed over 120 days
<Nafallo> gaah!
<pkern> Nafallo: Could you comment that "looked sane" to the bug report please?
 * Nafallo fails to install JeOS :-/
<Nafallo> bug 174406
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 174406 in gajim "feisty: gajim does not start up correctly " [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174406
<pkern> Nafallo: Thanks.
<Nafallo> no worries
<jdong> Do I need to do anything else to bug 163283 for a SRU to go thru?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 163283 in gtkpod-aac "[SRU/Gutsy]: Two patches for gtkpod-aac" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163283
<jdong> I've already marked it verification done and subscribed -archive
<Flare183> Why do I keep getting this error: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/48389/  ?
<Fujitsu> Flare183: Your changelog is bad. Use dch to edit it in future.
<Flare183> Fujitsu:> ok
<LaserJock> specifically it says line 5 of debian/changelog
<LaserJock> these shipit envelopes are kinda fun to read
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Are they?
<LaserJock> yeah, they have a whole thing about Canonical, *buntu, etc.
<Fujitsu> Oh, right, that.
<imbrandon> LaserJock / TheMuso : wiki updated
<TheMuso> imbrandon: ok will have a lok shortly.
<LaserJock> imbrandon: do we want a set of links for MOTU SRU like Ubuntu SRU has at the bottom of the page?
#ubuntu-motu 2007-12-16
<imbrandon> LaserJock: i dont really think its nessesary as those links arent even correct
<imbrandon> as the disclaimer said
<imbrandon> but i guess it wonthurt
<LaserJock> imbrandon: hmm, those are interesting links though
<LaserJock> not what I thought they were on first reading
<huats> hey guys
<LaserJock> hi huats
<huats> I am making a so called fake sync, I am reporting every debian changes to a ubuntu orig.tar.gz (which differs from the one in debian...). Do I need to put the debian changelog and the debian copyright. Or can I keep the ubuntu ones ?
<LaserJock> huats: how do the tarballs differ?
<huats> Oh by the way, another question (not related to the first one), I am a new ubuntu member ... how can I activate the ubuntu.com address ?
<huats> LaserJock: they are not the same :)
<LaserJock> huats: well, I gathered that ;-)
<LaserJock> huats: what's different about them?
<LaserJock> huats: try sending email to your ubuntu.com address and see if it works
<huats> LaserJock: let me check again, I have started that a long time ago so I have to remember :)
<huats> LaserJock: it was not functionning....
<huats> yesterday
<huats> I'll try again..
<LaserJock> huats: you might ask somebody in #canonical-sysadmin on Monday, but if it doesn't work I think you file an RT ticked (rt at canonical.com I think)
<huats> ok
<huats> I'll have a look on monday so
<huats> LaserJock: Ok I hav seen the differecnce...
<huats> what can I telll you about ?
<LaserJock> well, why is there a diff, what kind of stuff is changed?
<LaserJock> in general I would think if you were to do a fakesync I would think  you would stay as close to Debian as possible
<huats> ok
<huats> why there is a diff, I don't know...
<LaserJock> huats: I guess you kinda need to know what the  changes are and enough about why they are there to see if any changes need to be kept
<huats> ok
<huats> LaserJock: I'll investigate on that thus :)
<huats> LaserJock: thanks :)
<huats> good night all
<LaserJock> cya
<cyberix> I'd need to make a few minor changes to my package, which now is in the repositories.
<cyberix> So what is the process?
<minghua> cyberix: Main package or universe package?
<cyberix> Well, multiverse
<cyberix> I suppose the process is the same as for universe
<LaserJock> cyberix: file a bug, attach a debdiff, subscribe u-u-s
<minghua> cyberix: Yeah, basically what LaserJock said.  Also see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sponsorship/SponsorsQueue.
<pochu> Good night folks!
<owh> Just saw this email on the udd list https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2007-December/002696.html - discussing the out of sync nature for three packages that is, the source and the binary are not the same.
<owh> The packages discussed are logjam, qemu and aumix.
<owh> I started writing a response to the list but thought it might be smarter to discuss this here first.
<Fujitsu> owh: I responded to the bug he filed already. What is there to discus?
<Fujitsu> s/discus/discuss/
<owh> I haven't seen your response in the bug yet, but I'm wondering if there is a procedure to catch this "out of sync" nature because it could potentially be used as a way of introducing more sinister binaries.
<Fujitsu> How can sinister binaries be introduced? The worst that can happen is that some are out of date.
<Fujitsu> (and we have a page to catch those, now)
<persia> owh: It generally only happens when an older version FTBFS.  There's no binary upload, so it's not likely to be sinister.
<owh> Well, the email I linked to specifically states: "the maintainer grabbed from a broken CVS"
<persia> owh: Sure, but "broken" doesn't mean "sinister"
<Fujitsu> I wouldn't call that sinister.
<owh> My question is, "could it be?"
<owh> I'm not saying it is.
<somerville32> ...
<owh> I'm trying to ask if the procedures used have any holes in it that this is showing?
<owh> That is, "Is this the tip of an ugly iceberg?"
<Fujitsu> It is the tip of the FTBFS iceberg, but it can't be sinister.
<persia> somerville32: Thanks for reviewing people's packages on REVU.  If you don't mind, could you share your comments in this channel when you do so?
<Fujitsu> Well, if we have something sinister in the archive, we've got larger problems than out-of-date binaries.
<somerville32> persia, Alrighty.
<owh> Sure.
<persia> somerville32: Thanks :)
<owh> So Fujitsu, what you're saying is that this is *only* the visible end where source did not build, no other problem?
<Fujitsu> owh: What do you mean? This situation only occurs when the source doesn't build... there's nothing to *be* visible in any other case.
<somerville32> so If the new source package doesn't build, then the old binary still exists?
<Fujitsu> Correct.
<Fujitsu> It won't be dominated, and will remain published until it is.
<owh> So, the qemu example was a case of poor testing, but successful building?
<Fujitsu> Where's this?
<owh> In that email?
<owh> s/?/./
<Fujitsu> Oh, I didn't see that reply.
<owh> Perhaps it would be a good idea for a MOTU to put that into writing on the list to highlight what is going on so no-one jumps to any conclusions and it all explodes in a flurry of emails?
<Fujitsu> ... we only have a CVS qemu in Hardy. A broken package in Hardy. Wow.
<owh> I mean that the tone of the two emails could be construed as an issue as I started to do before I came here to talk about it.
 * Fujitsu generally follows a policy of letting -devel-discuss users live in their own little world.
<Fujitsu> What issue did you see, exactly?
<owh> Well as I read it, likely from inexperience, I saw three packages where src and binary were out of sync with little reference to where the binary came from.
<Fujitsu> Erm, even better, qemu on Hardy does work.l
<Fujitsu> What gave you the idea that the qemu binaries were out of sync?
<owh> There seemed to be a tone that there was a problem, but from the discussion here I'm just hearing that its FTBFS.
<Fujitsu> There are no qemu FTBFSes (except for archs where it has never built) in any release except edgy, and that's just powerpc.
<owh> The same email. Mind you it had very little on detail and reference, but I thought it would be prudent to ask.
<owh> It's pretty hard to tell if the person sending the email in the first place is talking out of the wrong orifice at the best of times.
<owh> Thanks for your time all. Happy to hear there is no issue.
<persia> owh: Well, there is an issue: packages shouldn't fail to build from source, and should be fixed, but it's not a dangerous issue.
<Fujitsu> And, as I said in the bug, we can now see what FTBFSes we have on our plate fairly easily.
 * persia cheers Dktrkranz and geser
<Fujitsu> Yep.
<owh> Is there a link that shows those packages so a wider group could assist? Or is that counter productive?
<Fujitsu> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs.
<persia> owh: Depends.  If the wider group is up to submitting patches to get them to work, it would be helpful.  Filing bugs isn't so helpful.
<owh> No kidding :)
<Fujitsu> We could really do with a mass-giveback soon, due to bug #160439
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 160439 in soyuz "Some builds fail when they should depwait" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160439
<owh> So is there any point in me mailing that link to udd, or should I just leave well enough alone?
<owh> Text along the lines of "These are examples of FTBFS, here are some others. If you have patches to fix it, please do so."
<persia> owh: Careful: that might be considered inflammatory.  Some people seem to believe there is a distinction between users and developers.
<owh> ROTFL
<persia> Fujitsu: Do we have a means to distinguish which packages are affected?
<owh> Sorry, that sounded flippant, it wasn't intended as such.
<Fujitsu> The examples given in the  reply to the email are not FTBFSes.
<Fujitsu> persia: Not at the moment, but it would be quite easy to grab build logs and grep for them.
<persia> Fujitsu: Ah.  True.  From what I have seen, I had the impression that a mass-give-back would be considered, if someone were to dig up which were the affected packages and submit the list.
<Fujitsu> It would be easier to just throw everything at the buildds again, thought.
<Fujitsu> s/thought/though/
<Fujitsu> hppa will all be given back within a couple of weeks anyway, and the others don't have a whole lot of FTBFSes.
<persia> Fujitsu: Yes, but proposing that makes the buildd-admins whine about resources, and point at the fact that we've never caught up (on all archs)
<Fujitsu> Grr, Soyuz is being silly again.
<Fujitsu> There has been one item stuck in the i386 and powerpc queues for at least several hours now, and I can't see it anywhere. They seem to be up to date, but /+builds says otherwise. Yay.
<Fujitsu> persia: hppa should catch up within a couple of weeks, and the other archs are generally fairly up to date.
<persia> Fujitsu: Yes, but you are talking about 1000 packages.  I had complaints about that volume when asking about the < Dapper rebuilds.
 * persia isn't convinced by the buildd-load argument, but is just sharing
<Fujitsu> Less than 200 packages on each arch is nothing.
<persia> Fujitsu: True.  I guess I'm misreading the FTBFS page then.
<Fujitsu> There are 1168 packages with issues, but less than around 200 failures on !(lpia|hppa). lpia is always ahead of everything else anyway, and hppa is special... I don't see why anybody would have a problem with it.
<persia> Fujitsu: For the < 200 failures, I don't imagine it would be an issue.  Someone might want to get fed 20/day or something, but that's the only issue I can see being raised.
<Fujitsu> That looks bad.
<Fujitsu> Hey bddebian.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bddebian> Hi Fujitsu
<ScottK> heya bddebian and Fujitsu.
<bddebian> Hi ScottK
<Fujitsu> Hi ScottK.
<bddebian> persia: You around by any chance?
<persia> bddebian: Yes
<bddebian> persia: Got a minute for a /query?
<mdomsch> ScottK: thanks for the firmware-addon-dell comments
<mdomsch> XS-Python-Version and XB-Python-Version are deprecated for use with python-support, per the warnings at build time and http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy
<ScottK> mdomsch: You need either pyversions or XS-Python-Version.  Unless I missed it you have neither.
<mdomsch> yeah, I added pyversions to satisfy
<mdomsch> and persia spent quite some time explaining the versioning to me, so I can get that right next time
<ScottK> Good.
<ScottK> Did you also take care of python versus python-all-dev?
<ScottK> You understand the difference?
<persia> mdomsch: Something I failed to mention before, which might be nice next time, is the option of distributing -0dellN from l.d.c, as -0ubuntu1 would always be higher, making the issue transparent.
<mdomsch> indeed
<ScottK> persia: I saw you recommended a linda over-ride for the package.  Why is that?
 * persia looks at REVU again to build context
<mdomsch> just for the piece that's a yum plugin
<mdomsch> it goes into an odd directory, /usr/lib/yum-plugins.d or somesuch
<mdomsch> arguably, as yum isn't the default on debian/ubuntu, I should skip that
<ScottK> Yes, but why does it go there?
<ScottK> That too, why install it at all?
<mdomsch> but, yum is available in universe
 * ScottK learns something new every day.
<ScottK> That is just wrong.
<persia> ScottK: because yum doesn't look in the /usr/share hierarchy (but not installing it is probably a better solution than a linda override)
<persia> ScottK: code sharing.  I don't think it's bad to have tools, but you're right that we shouldn't encourage use.
<ScottK> Well OTOH if yum is in the repos it'd be wrong to work at not supporting it.
<ScottK> Sounds like a bug in yum then (at least the yum package on Debian).
<persia> ScottK: Yes, certainly.  yum should allow packages supporting yum to be policy compliant :)
<mdomsch> brb
<ScottK> Bug filed.
<ScottK> Marked another one invalid while I was there.
<somerville32> ScottK, I thought pysupport didn't require pyversion or the Python-Version fields
<ScottK> It does AFAIK.
<somerville32> No, if you don't have pyversions than it uses current
<ScottK> I'm not saying it won't run, just that it's supposed to be there.
<somerville32> Not according to the docs for python-support
<somerville32> You should only have a pyversions file if the module doesn't work with all python versions
<ScottK> Right.  For what definition of all?
<somerville32> ScottK, ie. If it requires a specific version
<persia> somerville32: Right.  So anything without it should work with python < 1.0, right?
<ScottK> Yes, exactly.
<somerville32> You mean python > 1.0 ?
 * mdomsch hates "all" in discussion of versions
<mdomsch> you're going to get bit at some point
<persia> somerville32: No, I mean python < 1.0
 * persia agrees with mdomsch
<somerville32> I'm using the same semantics the document does
<persia> somerville32: What does the document mean by "all"?
<somerville32> any?
<mdomsch> >= 0.0
<Fujitsu> `all' simply means anything in the distro, though it gets a little nasty as we add new versions.
<persia> OK.  I see.  For python-central, I read it as needing XS-Python-Version, and for python-support, I read it as needing XB-Python-Version.
<somerville32> negative.
<somerville32> You don't need X[BS]-Python-Version fields.
<somerville32> You don't need debian/pycompat
<somerville32> You don't need to call dh_python after dh_pysupport
<persia> Right.  Everything needs XB-Python-Version, and python-central also needs XS-Python-Version.
 * persia agrees with not calling dh_python
<somerville32> X[BS]-Python-Version fields should be removed when using python-support
<mdomsch> the wiki is unclear on this point
<mdomsch> but the code throws warnings for XB-Python-Version present when using python-support
<somerville32> The docs for python-support are quite clear
<mdomsch> indeed
 * persia suspects the "New Python Policy" of being insufficiently new, and goes back to non-python things.
<ScottK> The "New Python Policy" is pretty much unmaintained right now.  Fixing that has recently been discussed in Debian.
<mdomsch> ScottK, new upload of firmware-addon-dell to revu with your suggested changes, thanks
<ScottK> mdomsch: You're welcome.
<mdomsch> I made equivalent changes to firmware-tools, but...
<mdomsch> upstream is converting from distutils to autoconf
<mdomsch> and there's some serious breakage in the upstream package right now
<ScottK> Yummy.
<ScottK> Right, so let's stick with this one then.
<mdomsch> so until that's resolved, I can't do another upload
<ScottK> You can continue to upload revisions to the distutils version to REVU
<Fujitsu> Moving to autoconf? That sounds a bit odd.
<mdomsch> Fujitsu, I wasn't too pleased to see that
<mdomsch> in fact, it's cost me ~4 hours work trying to fix the breakage so far
<ScottK> I don't suppose you can just write your own distutils setup.py and ignore the upstream autoconf stuff.
<mdomsch> ScottK, no, I'm just going to make upstream fix their brokenness with autotools independent of debian packaging
<mdomsch> and once that's good again, finish whatever is left of the deb packaging
<mdomsch> for now, as you suggested, I'm just redoing the upload
<mdomsch> w/o all of upstream's latest changes
<Fujitsu> What is our policy on creating a Homepage field when merging? IMO it's unnecessary delta...
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: imho it should be sent upstream, not here
<imbrandon> maybe a wishlist bug upstream
<Fujitsu> (I'm actually doing some sponsoring for the first time in ages)
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Debian, you mean?
<imbrandon> yea
<persia> Fujitsu: I don't see any reason to block sponsoring for it: the tools will be broken one way or the other.
<Fujitsu> persia: I guess. I'm sending it back for other changes anyway.
<imbrandon> yea , in my school of sponsoring too ( i'm pretty unique on somethings ) if that is the only change i would just change it myself ( e.g. revert it, then let the contributor know you reverted it ) and upload anyhow
<persia> Fujitsu: If you're kicking it back anyway, maybe it's worth reinforcing the minimal-deviation idea.
<persia> The only exception being .desktop files, due to the magic of app-install-data
<Fujitsu> persia: That's what I've done.
<Fujitsu> Yes.
<persia> imbrandon: I used to be a member of that school, but it means they don't get upload credit.  I'm currently on the fence, and subscribing to push-back in most cases.
<imbrandon> persia: sure they do, you can add something to the changelog etc and still leave them as the person in the changelog
<persia> (although, thinking about it, maybe they shouldn't get upload credit, and will need to hit more bugs to build credits if everyone does the fix & upload thing)
<imbrandon> that added the entrie
<imbrandon> you have to sign the file anyhow
<persia> imbrandon: That would be wrong.
<imbrandon> nah its done quite a bit in both debian and ubuntu, i dont see how its wrong
<persia> imbrandon: The person who closes the changelog should be the last person to touch the package.
<Fujitsu> persia: That deliberate loss of upload credit is an interesting idea indeed.
<persia> imbrandon: It's wrong because both the person reporting the changes being completed and the date the changes are completed are incorrectly reported.
<imbrandon> how its always done in the rcs packages i work on its the first person to add an entry
 * mdomsch uploads new firmware-tools
<persia> Fujitsu: It gets more patches through faster too.  I think most people would be happy getting their patches in, even without being the Changed-By name, and if they want to get accepted, they need to get it right.  Maybe worth discussing Friday?
<Fujitsu> I suspect so.
<ember> persia: devede fixed
<persia> imbrandon: It should be the last person to add an entry.  dch does the right thing.
<persia> ember: Great.  Of course, that means you're at the bottom of the least-recently-touched queue, but it shouldn't be more than a couple days.
<imbrandon> dch dosent account for multi-people editing
<imbrandon> on a single upload
<persia> imbrandon: Yes it does.  Try it.
<ember> he hates me
<ember> :o
<persia> ember: No, I just sponsor in least-recently-touched order to avoid anyone having to wait forever for a response.
<imbrandon> okies, i conceed probably wrong, but it is a common practice
<persia> imbrandon: Maybe, but people who do that should be using dch, and follow the new accepted correct practice.
<imbrandon> anyhow new subject, anyone care to give me a 5 minute primer to git ( i'm familiar with svn cvs bzr(kinda) ) so it shouldent take long to get me a basics enough to do a branch and a diff etc
<imbrandon> persia: likely
<imbrandon> i just am trying to do a bit-o-kernel patching from fedora-->suse-->fedora-->xebian-->ubuntu and git seems to be the common link
<imbrandon> ( yes xebian not debian )
<imbrandon> okies , guess i'm gonna do some trial and error
<mdomsch> imbrandon, are you going to be cherry-picking?
<mdomsch> e.g. grabbing specific commits from one tree to pull into another?
<imbrandon> mdomsch: yea, some xbox specific patches
<imbrandon> yea
<mdomsch> so, you need both trees/branches in the same local git tree
<mdomsch> then you choose the specific commits from say fedora-branch you want
<mdomsch> and you git cherry-pick <commit-id>  (from your working-branch)
<imbrandon> well the main thing is .... well ok
<imbrandon> here is the deal, say i can get a "working" local directory
<imbrandon> thats a git branch of our current ubuntu kernel
<mdomsch> yep
<mdomsch> git branch working
<mdomsch> git checkout -f working
<imbrandon> then i make a working-diff dir thats basicly a cp -Rav of the working
<imbrandon> with patches i grab from multi places
<imbrandon> cvs/svn/raw diff
<imbrandon> etc
<mdomsch> sure
<imbrandon> untill i get it "they way i want"
 * persia mistakenly accepted a merge :(
<imbrandon> can i then make a "git bundle" or somehing i can hand to someone with git commit access
<imbrandon> between the two
<mdomsch> well, you're outside of git as soon as you do the cp -rav
<mdomsch> instead do
<Fujitsu> persia: I'm sponsoring one too, but that's because it happens to contain a bugfix for a bug that I hit.
<mdomsch> git clone upstreamurl
<mdomsch> git branch working
<mdomsch> git checkout -f working
<mdomsch> apply patch #1
<mdomsch> git commit -a -m 'message for patch #1'
<mdomsch> repeat
<imbrandon> ok git commits localy like bzr ?
<mdomsch> yes
<persia> Fujitsu: Sponsoring merges isn't bad: personally, I'd like to see merges for any significant Debian bugfixes, I just have to be careful, as I often make mistakes with merges (so usually sponsor other things).
<imbrandon> nice, ok
<mdomsch> then, when you haev it "the way you want"
<mdomsch> you publish the tree somewhere somehow
<imbrandon> yup, thats exactly what i was looking for
<mdomsch> e.g. rsync it to a web server
<imbrandon> cool, yea
<Fujitsu> persia: Oh, right, forgot about your general aversion to them.
<imbrandon> thanks mdomsch
<mdomsch> and tell your friend to pull from the working branch of the tree you just rsynced
<persia> nxvl: You don't need "Closes" when closing a LP bug.  Rather, it's preferred not to use it (although it works)
<mdomsch> imbrandon, git-request-pull formats the email you can send to request the pull
<imbrandon> nice
<imbrandon> i've just been getting used to the nice things about bzr ( really distributed rcs ) but git ( without having actualy used it yet ) seems nice(er)
<imbrandon> i'm sure they both have their place though
 * mdomsch hasn't used bzr yet
<mdomsch> but I think they're similar conceptually
<Fujitsu> bzr rocks, and just reached 1.0.
<Fujitsu> I've not used git very much.
<imbrandon> man once i found bzr-svn and bzr-cvs i never looked back
<mdomsch> git is fully distributed
<imbrandon> mdomsch: so is bzr
<mdomsch> yep
<persia> imbrandon: They optimize for different cases, but both are nice in preference to what went before.
<mdomsch> at work, some teams are forced to use clearcase
<imbrandon> and i love the plugins , i can work with a svn tree like its a bzr branch and still push it back too
 * minghua played with both bzr and git, but hasn't known enough to do a comparison.
<imbrandon> never touching svn
<mdomsch> so, when the servers are down, or out of sync in the various geographies
<persia> clearcase!  Didn't that die a proper death last decade?
<mdomsch> they can't commit or sync
<Fujitsu> Hahahahahaha.
<Fujitsu> Clearcase, yay,.
<mdomsch> there's a tool I'm reading about, git-buildpackage
<imbrandon> hrm there might even be a bzr-git, i might have to look heh
<mdomsch> for maintaining debs in git
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: I don't believe there is.
<persia> mdomsch: If you decide to use git-buildpackage, you may also be interested in pristine-tar
<imbrandon> mdomsch: yea bzr-buildpacakges and svn-... and cvs-... too ( not positive obut cvs-... )
<minghua> imbrandon: Of course there is a cvs- one, it's the oldest (and probably the root of all these).
<imbrandon> hrm anyone know if someone produces a usb disk that uses real ramchips vs flashchips ?
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Wouldn't that be a bit... volatile?
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: yea, it would be intended to be
<imbrandon> as like say a slow swapdevice when nothing else is avail
<imbrandon> vs swap over ethernet
<persia> imbrandon: I've seen PCI, IDE, and PCIe RAM devices, but never USB.
<imbrandon> persia: ide?
<imbrandon> that might work too
<imbrandon> hrm
<persia> imbrandon: Yep.  Generally with a battery to make them less volatile.  You could presumably wrap it with a IDE->USB converter.
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> yea i was thinking a batery would be needed in the usb one
<imbrandon> like a thumbdrive + ram + bat
<imbrandon> plus some EE person to make it all work :)
<persia> imbrandon: Of course, I don't have any brands or anything.  These are the sorts of kit in the boxes of loose stuff on the bottom shelf at the components shops.
<imbrandon> right
<imbrandon> gives me something to look at though
<imbrandon> ( for context if intrested see "Other Hardware Thoughts" on http://www.not404.com/node/52 , almost at the bottom )
<persia> imbrandon: Expect a budget of ~ $50 USD (I think) if you can find somewhere that sells cheap unbranded chinese kit.
<imbrandon> yea i'd imagine, but it would make the diffrence between 64mb ram and ++ in a xbox without soder, making the 733Mhz + nvidia box  maybe worth using as a workstation, abet slow yes
<imbrandon> and even with soder iirc you can only hit 256
<persia> imbrandon: You've found a market niche.  Find a manufacturer, get an importer to smooth customs for 10-15%, and you've a hobby business.
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> i already make "xbox controler port to usb hub" cables at home for $$ , cheap but still heh
<imbrandon> its funny the controler port on a xbox is just a funny shaped usb port
<imbrandon> thus enabling people to mod their xboxes without opening the case or voiding anything ( not that they even still amek them )
<imbrandon> or hooking up keyboards and mice
<imbrandon> or using usb thumdrives as memorycards
<imbrandon> or tons of other things
<imbrandon> wow, i hate patents, i searched for it and the first thing that came up was a patent
<imbrandon> http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6219736.html
<imbrandon> so someone has thought about it
<minghua> imbrandon: Move out of US. :-)
<imbrandon> :P
<persia> imbrandon: That only means you can't design or manufacture it without permission from the patent holder.
<Fujitsu> I think that wins the prize for the most uses of microcontroller in a paragraph.
<imbrandon> lol
<minghua> persia: Really?  Even if I make it for myself, instead of selling it for profit?
<persia> minghua: Well, right.  One cannot design or manufacture such a device for sale or free distribution.  One can use privately, or resell if designed or manufactured by someone else.  For more details, seek counsel.
<imbrandon> hrm is this it? it seems like the right keywords but the actual design dosent look like what i ment
<imbrandon> http://www.controlchips.com/usbram.htm
<persia> imbrandon: That appears to be an implementation of the patent you listed earlier, although were one to construct something today, it might make sense to use faster USB.
<imbrandon> right
<imbrandon> that page looks last updated 2004
<imbrandon> so its not real uptodate
<imbrandon> StevenK: round?
<imbrandon> StevenK: un-ping
 * persia notes that the U-U-S queue has reached single digits again, and encourages someone else to review the rest of them.
<persia> (special points available for anyone willing to do bug #133888)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133888 in wxwidgets2.8 "upgrade wxwidgets2.8 to the 2.8.6.1 release" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/133888
<StevenK> imbrandon: Unpong
<StevenK> imbrandon: Besides, I'm a square
<persia> ember: Are you familiar with watch files?
<jonnymind> hello.
<warp10> Hi all
<jekos1> has anyone compiled Cedega successfully?
<harrisony> jekos1: it failed for me, i find wine works better anyway
<jekos1> harrisony: it tried to compile but failed too. I've downloaded it from CVS (53 M), it will be pity to make up with compilation
<harrisony> then again, i tried it early this year
* persia changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Hardy Heron is in active development. | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Unmet Deps time! http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/debcheck/ | QA resources from http://qa.ubuntuwire.com | It's REVU Day.  Packagers, update your candidates.  Reviewers, let's get more hammers & hearts on http://revu.ubuntuwire.com
<harrisony> but i find wine works all the time
<persia> It's REVU day again!
<persia> 30 Candidates today in need of review.
<harrisony> ARGH!, i was going to try get a package done for revu day, but stupid pbuilder isnt liking me
<persia> harrisony: What's wrong with pbuilder?
<harrisony> persia: keeps throwing errors when i use pbuilder-dist (from the ubuntu-dev-tools package) some errors about ' in the sources list or something
<harrisony> (on the initial create)
<persia> harrisony: Ah.  Have you hunted down the sources.list it tries to use?  Perhaps there's a typo.
<DarkMageZ> harrisony, have you edited any pbuilder configuration files? what command are you using to create the pbuilder?
<harrisony> DarkMageZ: pbuilder-dist hardy create (pbuilder-dist is found in ubuntu-dev-tools)
<DarkMageZ> harrisony, what about "sudo pbuilder create --distribution <distro>"
<DarkMageZ> harrisony, then edit /etc/pbuilderrc and enable universe and multiverse then "sudo pbuilder update --overide-config"
<harrisony> DarkMageZ: im doing that now, pbuilder-dist is nicer when it comes to mutiple versions
 * pochu has a lot of pbuilder-$distro in his $PATH :-)
<DarkMageZ> "sudo pbuilder build --basetgz=/var/cache/pbuilder/warty/base.tgz lol.dsc" :P
 * persia thinks warty isn't a very useful base these days
<pochu> heh
<DarkMageZ> i was trying to avoid dapper vs gutsy vs hardy debate :P
<harrisony> wouldnt mind finding a warty cd to see what it was like in ye old days
<DarkMageZ> harrisony, ye old days were only 2004... you were 12. this makes you VERY old :P
<harrisony> DarkMageZ: hahaha very very, what was i doing when i was 12, hmm
 * persia asks the 7 packagers with "Updated Packages" on REVU to submit interdiffs to bugs and subscribe the sponsors queues if they wish to request upload.
<LucidFox> Yes, persia, just saw that, and uploaded interdiff
<LucidFox> so the updated packages section of REVU is going to be phased out?
<persia> LucidFox: Not any time soon, but it only gets looked at on Mondays, and not so often at that.  There's a better chance of getting review & sponsorship from the sponsors queue.
 * persia often scans the "Updated Packages" section, and archives candidate revisions that are older than the archive versions
<pochu> persia: would it be useful if REVU distingished from main and universe packages?
<pochu> so MOTUs concentrate their work in universe packages
<persia> pochu: Not really.  All NEW packages go to universe, and updated packages don't really belong on REVU anyway.
<pochu> hmm, right
<pochu> I was thinking on updated packages, as Ive just seen gnome-terminal there, but you're right
<persia> pochu: If someone has a NEW package for main, best plan is to get it into universe, and file a MIR
<persia> On the other hand, sometimes a sponsor requests a signed upload somewhere, and REVU is a handy resource.  Once LP gets proper dget support for PPAs, etc. (very soon now, might even be in edge), this becomes less useful.
<pochu> I think it's already there in malone. Not in soyuz yet, but soon.
<Supremus> hello
<persia> pochu: Right :)
<Supremus> persia, hello :D
<persia> Supremus: Hi
<pochu> persia: but as you said, updates shouldn't go to revu, so that's alright
<persia> pochu: Feel like a few reviews?  I'll paste if you can't find the person online.
<pochu> persia: why not? :)
<persia> pochu: Just ping the person, prep stuff in a pastebin, and post to the channel :)
 * persia wonders if any packagers are around and want to request a review for their upload
<pochu> persia: you might want to paste this in deskscribe. I reviewed it last night for ember, but would be fine to post it so nobody reviews it until those issues are fixed. http://paste.ubuntu.com/2783/
<persia> pochu: pasted.  Thanks.
<persia> pochu: I generally try to explain each one a little, as the lintian output isn't always very clear.
<pochu> well, I talked with ember about those who were complicated - the .desktop one :)
<persia> pochu: Right.  In this case it's OK because it's just documentation of an IRC conversation, but if you happen to hit a new one :)
<pochu> ok :)
<pochu> bbl, will pick up one for review when i'm back
<jonnymind> Uhm, sorry for jumping in, but I am reading about REVU and universe...
<jonnymind> I thing I am doing how I am been told to do, that is, posting a new package in REVU.
<persia> jonnymind: No need to apologize.
<jonnymind> *think
<persia> jonnymind: If you have a package that is not in Ubuntu, REVU is the best way to get it into Ubuntu.
<jonnymind> persia: more than apologizing (which never hurts when you're wrong), I am asking for the correct procedure to follow...
<persia> jonnymind: First, make a perfect package.
<jonnymind> OIC. Thnx.
<persia> Second, upload to REVU
<jonnymind> persia: First and second should be ok then  :-)
<persia> Third, wait for REVU day, and tell everyone the URL for your package REVU entry.
<persia> Fourth, fix all the issues the reviewers discovered.
<persia> Fifth, reupload
<persia> (steps 4 & 5 may repeat a surprising number of times, depending on policy changes, and the varying skills of the reviewers)
<jonnymind> persia: and next REVU day is?
<persia> sixth, when your package is in the NEW queue, wait for feedback from the archive admins to see if it will be rejected.
<persia> seventh, download and enjoy
<persia> jonnymind: It's REVU Day now (and for abother 2898 minutes)
<jonnymind> Oh
<jonnymind> In this case...
<jonnymind> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=falcon
<jonnymind> As I said in the notes of the bug...
<jonnymind> (let me pick it...)
<jonnymind> bug 174470Ã¹
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 174470 in ubuntu "Package for the Falcon Programming Language" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174470
<pochu> jonnymind: a watch file would be appreciated
<jonnymind> the package is marked as 0.8.5, and I am cleaning the version and finalizing debug for 0.8.6 stable release in these days, but the packaging process is complete.
<jonnymind> persia: watch file?
 * persia suspects that the previous would benefit from s/persia/pochu/
<pochu> jonnymind: in debian/changelog, version should be -0ubuntu1 and not -1, do not put more messages than * Initial release, close your launchpad bug with 'LP: #174470', s/unstable/hardy/, and put a break line in middle of the 'falcon (0.8...' line and the changes one, and same between the changes one and the timestamp one
 * persia notes that additional entries in the changelog to explain distribution-specific patches are also acceptable.
<jonnymind> tnx
<jonnymind> doing
<pochu> jonnymind: a watch file is a file which allows you to download the upstream tarball using a tool named uscan. Very useful. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/DebianWatch
<pochu> jonnymind: if used dh_make, it created a watch.ex file with some example lines, as a webserver, a ftp page, a webpage, sourceforge...
<pkern> jonnymind: availabe -> available
<jonnymind> Uhm...
<pkern> jonnymind: debian/copyright should be improved.
<jonnymind> pkern: how?
<pochu> jonnymind: debian/control: there's a new standars version :) put yourself as 'XSBC-Original-Maintainer', and put 'Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>' as the Maintainer (Ubuntu is team maintained). Improve the short description so it reflects what the package is for (if it's the engine, the dev files...). And a Homepage filed in the source part would be nice.
<persia> apachelogger: Why didn't you advocate libksquirrel?
<jonnymind> Great.
<jonnymind> pochu: doing
<pkern> jonnymind: Yay.  Yet another licence.  Reproduce it in full in debian/copyright, list the authors and their copyrights (the licence headers in the files refer to AUTHORS, which does not exist...)
<pkern> jonnymind: And take debian/copyright of an existing package as a template.
<jonnymind> pkern: yes. Uhm... atm I am the sole autor, but I do have an AUTHORS file; I just failed copying it in the package :-)
<pkern> I did not evaluate the freeness of the licence, though.
 * pochu checks the license
<pochu> heh
<pkern> pochu: <3
<jonnymind> pkern: the license is thought to be more free than usual.
<persia> jonnymind: More free than ISC?
<pkern> jonnymind: Is it based on some other licence?
<jonnymind> pkern: it's apache2 license with extra openness for scripts and pre-compiled items.
<jonnymind> also, as falcon is meant to be an embeddable language, it frees the embedding applications.
<jonnymind> That's quite a controversal matter for i.e. python.
<pkern> Except that they need to reproduce a notice that they use the language.
<jonnymind> however, plesase, go check.
<apachelogger_> persia: didn't know I have to ;-)
<pkern> Well, got to go, anyway.
<jonnymind> yes, they do need to do that.
<persia> apachelogger: You don't, but if a MOTU doesn't advocate their own package, it doesn't look very interesting to others :)
<jonnymind> pkern: (et al), I am currently having a lawyer filing a request at OSI for omologation.
<apachelogger> hehe, I added an advocate, thanks :)
<persia> apachelogger: No problem: I'm just trying to clean up for REVU day.  We've a large number of advocated packages today, so I'm hoping for some uploads.
<slomo> siretart: libavutil1d has a soname change...
<slomo> siretart: .1d -> .49
<jonnymind> pochu: should I add maintainers also to binary package sections?
<persia> Supremus: About patching.  Have you read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems ?
<persia> jonnymind: Maintainer only needs to be in the source section.  it gets mangled by the buildds for the binaries anyway.
<jonnymind> k
<pochu> IANAL, but the license looks good.
<Supremus> persia, no... :'(
<jonnymind> pochu: how should I file the home page in the source part?
<pochu> jonnymind: you _need_ to add a LICENSE file to your upstream tarball, though
<pochu> a link to a webpage is not enough
<jonnymind> Uhm... it should be there. Let  me see
<pochu> there's a copyright file with a link.
<persia> Supremus: Essentially, we try to match the patch system in Debian as closely as possible, and use the patch systems to adjust files, rather than creating duplicates.  Maybe worth a read.
<jonnymind> It's there!
<jonnymind> pochu: it's there in the root, called LICENSE.
<jonnymind> Ops
<jonnymind> License.
<jonnymind> Should that be uppercased?
<slomo> siretart: and there are some bugs you can close now and some that are trivial to fix... like building against libfaad2-dev, package newer snapshot bugs... and #434494, #439970
<pochu> jonnymind: the homepage, put 'Homepage: http://url.com' under Build-Depends
<jonnymind> k
<pochu> heya slomo
<Supremus> persia, you speack about wxmaxima?
<persia> Supremus: Yep :)
<pochu> jonnymind: heh, I see. I saw copyright and thought that was it :)
<Supremus> persia, :D
<Supremus> persia, is not correct?
<pochu> jonnymind: usually licenses are named COPYING, afaik
<slomo> hi pochu
<pochu> jonnymind: but that's not something you need to change ;)
<Supremus> becouse the icon there is
<jonnymind> pochu: the issue is a bit confusing; they said COPYING is for GNU things, and this is definitely not.
<persia> Supremus: No.  The old version has a patch against the upstream .desktop file.  You've removed the patch, and put a .desktop file in debian.  You want to update the patch to have your changes.
<pochu> slomo: reminder, gstreamer patch :) http://emilio.pozuelo.org/~deb/dont_hardcode_distribution.patch
<slomo> pochu: later, sorry :)
<pochu> slomo: sure, want a mail?
<slomo> sure
<pochu> :)
 * persia grumbles about debian/ in orig.tar.gz
<Supremus> persia, ok I try
<jonnymind> Eh?
<jonnymind> debian in orig?
<jonnymind> It shouldn't be there.
<jonnymind> let me see...
<persia> jonnymind: Not your package.  A different package.
<jonnymind> Ah :-)
<jonnymind> allee: I am really tring to do a "respectful" thing. I wrote falcon primarily because I thought that the other scripting engines were not "respectful" enough of their host applications (and also the languages, at times they were not... respectful enough of the users).
<jonnymind> Ops.
<Supremus> persia, but is non correct put the desktop file in debian folder?
<jonnymind> I meant all:, but autocompletion did the rest.
<persia> Supremus: The debian/ folder is where the .desktop file goes if (and only if) upstream does not yet have a .desktop file.  Any package with a .desktop file in debian/ should have an upstream bug to fix that.  In this case, upstream does the right thing.
<Supremus> ok
<persia> jonnymind: I'm lost.  Do you need more input, or was the above sufficient for you to prepare a new candidate?
<jonnymind> persia: I think it's ok; except for the watch thing, I need more time to get it.
<persia> jonnymind: Watch files are tricky.  In addition to the wiki page, the uscan manual (man uscan) may be helpful.
<jonnymind> thanks.
<persia> LucidFox: I can't reconstruct your diff.gz from your interdiff.  Did you use -p1?
<LucidFox> yes
<pkern> jonnymind: Did you already submit it to debian-legal?
<persia> LucidFox: Ah.  combinediff doesn't support hunk-splitting, so that can't be used to generate the new diff.gz.
<jonnymind> pkern: no. How's that done?
<persia> Would you mind putting up an interdiff without -p1?
<persia> pkern: Can we submit licenses that aren't for Debian to debian-legal?
<jonnymind> persia, pkern: also, this thing is "free" in the OSI sense (cc, apache) rather than in the GNU sense (GPL).
<jonnymind> debian is a bit more GNU centric; afaik, ubuntu is more OSI centric (i.e. launchpad license...)
<Fujitsu> Launchpad is entirely non-free. There is no known license.
<LucidFox> persia> uploaded
<persia> LucidFox: Thanks.
<jonnymind> Fujitsu: yes, I refer to the contents not to the platform.
<persia> LucidFox: Just fro curiosity, which document suggests -p1?
<LucidFox> the wiki page
<LucidFox> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Interdiff
<Fujitsu> Hah, I just got a 500.
<Fujitsu> (from that wiki page)
<persia> LucidFox: Any suggestions on how to make it more clear?  I read that as asking for an interdiff without -p1 for sponsoring, and explaining why.
<persia> LucidFox: Especially I'm confused given the bit about how to test an interdiff.
<LucidFox> I think the page should explain what a "consolidated interdiff" and "full interdiff" is. Namely that a consolidated one uses -p1 while a full one doesn't.
<jonnymind> pkern: Should the authors be listed explicitly in the copyright file, or is an AUTHOR file in the docs dir ok?
<persia> LucidFox: Hmm.  I suspect you're right.  I'll try to make that more clear.
<persia> LucidFox: Missing get-orig-source for repacked tarball.
<pkern> jonnymind: All copyright owners should be listed.
<jonnymind> Ok
<Supremus> persia, thanks a lot is work
<jonnymind> pkern: Uhm... I am already in and there's noone else ;-)
<persia> Supremus: Good news!
<jonnymind> I'll remove the reference to the committee that is currently an empty set (sadly)
<LucidFox> The tarball isn't repacked
<LucidFox> or wait... it was a bz2
<persia> LucidFox: The watch file gives me a bz2 file, and I want a gz file.
<LucidFox> ack
<persia> LucidFox: This will probably be fixed for hardy+1, and we can use bz2 files, but for now, we still need the get-orig-source rules.
<persia> Supremus: That looks nice and small.  Good work.
<persia> Supremus: Although, the patch doesn't apply :(
<jonnymind> pkern: the copyright you refer to for the complete list of holders is the on that is installed in doc or the one that is in DEBIAN int he source package (or both)?
<Kmos> pkern is not online anymore
<LucidFox> Can get-orig-source assume that the upstream version is up to date?
<LucidFox> (That is, that the package uses the last upstream version available?)
<persia> LucidFox: It can.  Personally, I'd prefer that it got the source for the current version, but policy is quite clear that it should get the tarball for the newest upstream version.
<persia> LucidFox: As a result, get-orig-source can usually use uscan to grab the tarball, and then manipulate from that.
<geser> is a rmadison expert around? shouldn't "rmadison -u debian -s unstable -a source jd" result only in one line? I get two lines which seems to confuse requestsync
<persia> geser: You get two lines because the m69k & s390 builds aren't complete.
<persia> geser: This is expected, if a little annoying.
<geser> persia: even if I tell I want source only?
<persia> geser: Hmm.  Good point.  I missed the "-a source" part
<geser> I also get all architectures listed when querying debian
<geser> compare it with "rmadison jd" and "rmadison -a source jd" for Ubuntu
<jonnymind> persia: I am repacking.
<persia> jonnymind: repacking?
<jonnymind> Regenerating the package along your corrections.
<persia> jonnymind: Good, although you shouldn't give me any credit: I didn't even look at your package :)
<Kmos> geser: http://qa.debian.org/madison.php?package=jd&a=&b=&c=&s=unstable
<Kmos> bug in madison.php ?
<jonnymind> :-) yes, "your" was plural.
<geser> Kmos: that's the question
<jonnymind> (English is a funny languge at times ;-)
<Kmos> -a means architecture
<persia> geser: It's a bug on the debian server (if it's a bug).  I can replicate in sid, including getting a single line when querying for -a source.  The rmadison source doesn't even check the value.
<persia> Err.  "getting a single line when querying for -a source against Ubuntu"
<LucidFox> Uploaded new interdiff with get-orig-source
<jonnymind> pochu: reuploaded
<jonnymind> pkern: reuploaded
<Kmos> persia: right.. it's a bug in madison.php
<persia> jonnymind: For the best package, it's best to get new reviewers for each upload.  Best to advertise your URL again, and ask for reviewers.
<persia> Kmos: Do you know how to patch it?
<jonnymind> Uhmm... yes.
<jonnymind> in this case...
<jonnymind> Bug #174470
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 174470 in ubuntu "Package for the Falcon Programming Language" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174470
<Kmos> persia: i'll mail Christoph Berg about it.. if I have access to madison.php I can fix it for sure
<Kmos> the rmadison only querys the url.. so we can't do anything
<persia> Kmos: No need to bother anyone until there is a patch.
<persia> Kmos: Rather, a tested patch.
<Kmos> http://qa.debian.org/~myon/madison.php?package=jd&a=source&b=&c=&s=unstable
<Kmos> the myon own madison still have that bug
<Kmos> persia: there is access to the source of it ?
<persia> Kmos: Right, which means it might not be madison.php, but could be dak ls directly.
<persia> Kmos: Yes.
<Kmos> persia: we're I can get madison.php ?
<pochu> jonnymind: still no watch?
<frenchy> persia: I hope that someone is paying you for this, you're an animal!
<persia> Kmos: I don't know, but I do know that the source of all the debian websites is intended to be available somewhere.  Might need some research: the answer is likely in a package description or on a wiki.
<Kmos> another example
<Kmos> http://qa.debian.org/madison.php?package=smc&a=source&b=&c=&s=unstable
<jonnymind> pochu: I'll add a watch when I am confident with the mechanism...
<persia> frenchy: Would you like to help ?
<Kmos> for smc package
<jonnymind> pochu: i.e. I need to study it.
<Kmos> persia: i will try =)
<pochu> jonnymind: I suggest you to look at other packages' watch file
<persia> Kmos: Good luck.  Just remember to try to find the solution before you email the maintainers.  Those are some of the busiest people in Debian.
<jonnymind> pochu: where do I find the watch file in a package?
<frenchy> persia: I can't keep up.  But if you need a hand the least I could do is offer you help seeing as how you've been good to me.
<pochu> jonnymind: in debian/watch
<jonnymind> OIC
<persia> frenchy: Thanks for that, and sharing advice with others is always welcome.  I had intended to be joking about helping pay me, but it was only a joke :)
<frenchy> persia: I'm still madly trying to finish off coding Me TV ... but if you're hurting.
<pochu> jonnymind: and use 'uscan --verbose' in debian/.. to see how it works ;)
<frenchy> persia: I wanted to get Me TV squared away so I could focus on maintaining.  It's hard doing both.
<persia> frenchy: No.  I like doing this.  For Me TV, you just need to get the testers lined up: the package has been looking good for a while.
<jonnymind> pochu: testing it...
 * persia notes that uscan --verbose also works in the base package directory
<jonnymind> OOOOO impressing!
<pochu> persia: that's where I meant :)
<jonnymind> gian@hplin:~/tmp/falbuild/falcon-0.8.5$ uscan --verbose
<jonnymind> -- Scanning for watchfiles in .
<jonnymind> -- Scan finished
<Kmos> persia: ok. thx
<jonnymind> ;-P
<pochu> persia: it doesn't work in debian/, but does in debian/.. ;-)
<persia> pochu: :)
<pochu> jonnymind: it found nothing!
<jonnymind> pochu: acute ,-)
<frenchy> persia: There's a couple of loose-ends.  I've been trying to round up testers for DVB-S so I can confirm that it's fully supported.
<pochu> jonnymind: should say either 'upstream has the same version as us', or 'upstream has a newer version, downloading'
<jonnymind> pochu: I am studying the topic.
<persia> frenchy: That's the hardest part.  Good luck.
<pochu> jonnymind: oh, ok :-)
<frenchy> persia: And to be any kind of alternative to klear I have to have scheduled recordings.
<frenchy> persia: Thanks.
<frenchy> persia: I'll promise that I'll be back when I have time to focus better.  I'd rather do one thing well than 2 things poorly.
<persia> frenchy: I'd agree to that.  Also, if you make perfect apps upstream, that's as helpful to us as if you maintain things perfectly :)
<frenchy> persia: Yeah, I see that now that I've been a packager as well.
<jonnymind> pochu: in a range 0-10, what is the necessity of watch for package approval?
<persia> jonnymind: 10
<pochu> heh
<persia> (or a working get-orig-source, where watch is impossible)
<jonnymind> I see.
<jonnymind> I am lucky having a site then.
<pochu> jonnymind: it's *easy* to create a watch file, specially if you are upstream :)
<persia> jonnymind: The problem is that we mostly rely on Debian to grab new upstreams.  For packages only in Ubuntu, we need the watch file so we know when to update the package.
<jonnymind> you're right, it was easy:
<jonnymind> Newest version on remote site is 0.8.5, local version is 0.8.5
<jonnymind>  => Package is up to date
<jonnymind> :-)
<jonnymind> Wiki tend to hide context informations.
<jonnymind> pochu: The watch file should be copied in the DEBIAN dir of the source package, right?
<pochu> jonnymind: right
<pochu> debian/ dir
<pochu> so it goes to diff.gz
<jonnymind> Great, thanks
<jonnymind> pochu: Ok, this should be everything.
 * pochu waves at POX_ :-)
<POX_> hi :)
<pecisk> hi people, I want to contribute package to universe, what shall I do?
<persia> pecisk: Are you familiar with the way that packages are made for Ubuntu?
<pecisk> more or less, yes
<pecisk> persia: but in this case it is even simpler. I would like to upload yaz packages. They have debian control files already, and they succesfully build on Ubuntu, so it is matter of changing info and support contact.
<persia> pecisk: In that case, look through https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?file.tag=needs-packaging to find an interesting unclaimed package, wrap it in a .diff.gz, and submit to REVU.
<persia> pecisk: Ah.  A specific package.  In that case, you want to put it on REVU.
<persia> !revu
<ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<pecisk> thanks
<pochu> persia: do you know why revu doesn't pick the orig.tar.gz from the previous upload? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=falcon
<pochu> jonnymind: mind building the source package with '-S -sa' options, and reuploading? so we get the .orig.tar.gz
<persia> pochu: Because REVU doesn't use anything from the previous upload except when making a debdiff.  That's intentional, so the .changes file will be correct.  That feature never actually got heavy use for other reasons, and the final solution will be something else, but we retain that behaviour because nobody thinks it's important enough to fix.
<pochu> I see. thanks
<pochu> bbl
<jonnymind> pochu: immediately
<jonnymind> pochu: done; sorry, I beleived the orig was included by default.
<jonnymind> ops, still uploading
<jonnymind> pochu: upload complete
<Supremus> persia, now wxmaxima is ok
<persia> Supremus: Please close a bug in your changelog.  Also, see William's comment.
<Supremus> persia, :'( sorry
<persia> Supremus: Each one is closer.  You'll have it soon.
<Supremus> :D
<Supremus> tanks
<Supremus> *thx
<Supremus> persia, now is ok :D :D :D
<persia> Supremus: See Siegfried's comment
<Fujitsu> See Siegfried's comment that says to see mine, yep.
<Supremus> persia, :'( :'( :'(
<persia> Fujitsu: Just a matter of timing.  RainCT hit the review of the latest candidate first :)
<Fujitsu> persia: Not the latest.
<RainCT> heh
 * persia is behind, and clearly needs to poll more often :)
<Fujitsu> Ah, the latest one added a bug number.
<persia> Still....  The categories aren't addressed.
<Fujitsu> Correct.
<Supremus> I misunderstood your comment, sorry
<geser> Fujitsu: Hi, is debian bug #448437 something for ~motu-swat? the upload says it's a security fix
<ubotu> Debian bug 448437 in unp "unp: Incomplete filename escaping" [Important,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/448437
<Fujitsu> geser: Looking.
<Fujitsu> geser: Quite possibly..
<DaveMorris> I'm around if people wanted to revu 1 of my packages - http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=libserial
<geser> DaveMorris: why have you a binary-install/libopensg-dev::
<geser> target in your debian/rules file for libserial?
<DaveMorris> must be a copy and paste error, since I'm working on that package as well
<DaveMorris> but it's meant to do what the code says,
<DaveMorris> geser: any other changes before I upload a fixed version?
<geser> DaveMorris: why do you have "DEB_INSTALL_DOCS_ALL := -XREADME -XNEWS" in debian rules and list NEWS and README in debian/docs? Does it sound a little bit contradictionary?
<DaveMorris> right, so I'll remove them from debian/docs
<DaveMorris> and i guess I won't need the deb-install_docs bit then
<tsmithe> persia, hi - thanks for the revu. i'd like to make one more change. how do i add a notification (like the firefox reload required one) to inform the user about the soundfont situation?
<persia> tsmithe: I'm not sure.  Given that anyone who is actually doing anything with samplers likely has some soundfonts, I think we can call it a user-education issue for now: otherwise you'd want to touch all the soundfont clients.
<jimqode> what is the name of the package that does automounting in ubuntu?
<tsmithe> jimqode, the application is gnome-volume-manager
<tsmithe> package has the same name
<jimqode> tsmithe, thank you!
<tsmithe> persia, hmm. i just don't like having an apparently non-function application without some kind of reasoning given, especially if it is "my" package
<tsmithe> *non-functioning
<tsmithe> jimqode, no problem
<persia> tsmithe: I understand.  I think you've documented it well in README.Debian.  You might look in the alsa package or the firefox package to see how the notification works.
<tsmithe> i'm on it right now :)
<tsmithe> i get the impression that most users don't check README.Debian
<persia> tsmithe: They don't, but that's the standard way to provide that type of information.
<dsop> is there some motu around, who is willing to advocate for my package http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=gcutils ?
<dsop> Still searching for a second advocate since 2 weeks :/
<persia> dsop: You might get someone more interested if you explained why it's a good package (e.g. what it does).  There are a few people looking at cvs to git migrations who may find it useful, and be encouraged to advocate & sponsor it.
<DaveMorris> geser: I've fixed those issue in libserial
<dsop> Okay. Let's explain it a bit. A lot of people deal with using git and cvs the same time. There is a public cvs repository but the developers use git to do their work. Therefore they use git-cvsexportcommit and git-cvsimport which does the job perfectly but it's not quit handy. Therefore gc-utils just wrap these commands to make it more handy and to make it possible to easily import cvs repositories into git and commit back from the git reposito
<dsop> gcutils just aim to make daily tasks easier for those who want to have their cvs in git.
<persia> dsop: My apologies.  That didn't seem to have the desired effect.  Maybe it's just a bad time of day.  You might try again in 5 or 6 hours.  I'd try a shorter into paragraph, and be sure to include the link to the REVU page at that time.
<jonnymind> persia: btw, I am searching for sponsors too. Is there anywhere else I should search for or should I just stick here?
<LucidFox> What would be the best way to get into Ubuntu a package from debian-multimedia.org that's not in Ubuntu?
<persia> jonnymind: This is the place.  Just as a matter of nomenclature, you're currently seeking advocates for your reviewed package (as you recently got reviewers for your new package9
<persia> LucidFox: Err.  Is it already perfect?
<jonnymind> persia: ok. Sorry for being a bit pedantic, I just want to do things The Right Way (TM).
<persia> jonnymind: No worries: I'm the pedantic one :)
<jonnymind> :-)
<LucidFox> Let's suppose I adapt it for Ubuntu. What would be the next step? REVU?
<persia> LucidFox: If you're adapting, REVU is best.
<persia> For the REVU submission, don't worry about minimal diff.  We did that a couple years ago, and ended up with a bunch of buggy packages (not all from debian-multimedia: mostly from other random repos, but the idea that only Debian should sync is pretty firm these days)
<persia> On the other hand, if you get it linda & lintian clean (or as close as is possible with the current disagreements), and send a patch back to debian-multimedia, they may well accept it.
<siretart> slomo: thanks for notifying me. will do another upload tonight
<pochu> jonnymind: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/falcon-0712161350/lintian
<jonnymind> Acc.
<jonnymind> I forgot.
<jonnymind> let me remove it.
<pochu> jonnymind: wait, don't upload yet
<jonnymind> k
<pochu> jonnymind: in debian/changelog, you don't need to put 'close your launchpad...', just LP: #174470
<pochu> jonnymind: you can put it though, but you don't need to :)
<jonnymind> I see. Well, I have nothing particular to write there so...
<pochu> :)
<pochu> jonnymind: in control, update the Standards Version to 3.7.3. And improve the short description to reflect that the -dev package contains development files, and the other package contains whatever
<jonnymind> 3.7.3, wow, a moving target...
<jonnymind> pochu: uhm... what do you mean with "improve description"?
<pochu> jonnymind: debian/copyright - see /usr/share/doc/python/copyright, you need to put the entire license if it's not GPL or LGPL or GFDL. Also use the same template
<pochu> jonnymind: the 3 package have the same short description
<jonnymind> pochu: ok; I thought that the whole license thing was only for the /doc things (well, it really seemed so).
<pochu> jonnymind: I'd change in the -dev package the short description to 'The Falcon Programming Language - development files'
<jonnymind> Eh?--no.
<pochu> but remember that it should be less than 60 (or 80, not sure) chars
<jonnymind> pochu: the last paragraph should be different.
<pochu> jonnymind: yes, but sometimes you will only see the short one.
<jonnymind> Uhm, so I should move the last para at top.
<pochu> nope
<pochu> the last one is fine
<jonnymind> Ok
<pochu> only change the first line so they are not the same
<pochu> jonnymind: some times you will only see the long description ;)
<pochu> so it needs to stay there too
<jonnymind> pochu: Let's clarify. There is a first paragraph in each package description which is generic, and one last that is specific;
<jonnymind> pochu: you are suggesting to use just one paragraph, starting differently, for each package description?
<pochu> jonnymind: I don't have more time, need to go. But I'd suggest you to check the binary packages with lintian to see if there are some errors there. 'lintian *.deb' will check the binary files, and 'lintian *_i386.changes' (if you have i386 architecture) will check both binary and source
<pochu> jonnymind: wait, let me see
<jonnymind> pochu: Binaries were all clear
<jonnymind> Just, I forgot to run lintian on the source ...
<pochu> jonnymind: if you run it against the .changes file it will run it in both binary and sources :-) so you don't forget one or the other ;)
<jonnymind> k
<pochu> jonnymind: see this file. The short description says whether it contains the shared files, the development files... or whatever. And the long description contains it too. That's the best way to put it imho. http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/libgnomekbd-0712141820/libgnomekbd-2.21.4/debian/control
<jonnymind> perfect, thank you
<jonnymind> Ok, understood
<pochu> Just remember: no more than 80 chars per line :)
<jonnymind> Yes, I crunched away "programming language" from the other description lines.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Fujitsu> Hi bddebian.
<pochu> bddebian!
<bddebian> Hi Fujitsu, pochu
<jonnymind> Uhm...
<jonnymind> I understand lintian should understand this:
<jonnymind> ember: falcon_0.8.5-0ubuntu1_source.changes: bad-ubuntu-distribution-in-changes-file hardy
<jonnymind> wpk: falcon source: newer-standards-version 3.7.3 (current is 3.7.2)
<jpatrick> jonnymind: ignore those
<jonnymind> K
<pochu> jonnymind: that's because you have an old lintian version :)
<jonnymind> (however they are a bit confusing for the newcomer...)
<RainCT> btw, is there a linda for 3.7
<RainCT> * 3.7.3?
<jonnymind> pochu: done all. Shall I upload?
<Fujitsu> RainCT: Not yet.
<pochu> jonnymind: if nobody wants to check it, do it. I'll build it and look at it later.
<pochu> Later folks
<jonnymind> later
<bddebian> Bye pochu
<Fujitsu> Bye pochu.
<jonnymind> persia: Is there any problem if the final version of the package has a different version number?
<persia> jonnymind: First, why ask me?  Second, what do you mean?
<jonnymind> persia: Uhm... why ask you, because you seem the most competent person being currently online here
<persia> jonnymind: That's certainly not true, but thank you :)
<jonnymind> then, what I mean is, I'd like to finalize this version as 0.8.6 to start even-odd release convention for development versions.
<persia> OK.  The current upstream is 0.8.5?
<jonnymind> so, when I'll be done cleaning up docs and running killer tests the version should be marked 0.8.6 rather than 0.8.5 as it is marked now.
<jonnymind> yes
<jonnymind> Just, I wouldn't want to ruffle up feathers here, as ppl is working on 0.8.5.
<persia> OK.  I'd suggest running the two in parallel.  While you're finalising upstream for 0.8.5->0.8.6, work with REVU on the packaging.  Once you're ready, bump the upstream, and polish the packaging for 0.8.6.  Get that uploaded.
<persia> jonnymind: No worries.  People are mostly reviewing debian/ and licensing, etc.  That stuff is usually independent of the sorts of changes that would be 0.8.5 -> 0.8.6, and most people here don't really care about version numbers, as long as they change when new code is released.
<jonnymind> Fine, thanks.
<jonnymind> Ah, for the license question. From the wikis, I understood that the copyright in the debian/dir didnt' have to include the license, which had to be included in the share/doc tree.
<jonnymind> Should I copy the license there too?
<jonnymind> (I mean, in the share/doc/<p>/copyright files).
<persia> If your license is not in /usr/share/common-licenses/, you need to include the full text of the license in debian/copyright, which should be automatically copied to /usr/share/doc/<package>/copyright.
<jonnymind> Ok, thank you.
<jonnymind> In the copyright, I'll skip the commentary... it's anyhow included in the License file, which I do ship everywhere.
<tsmithe> persia, others, please check out http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=mscore
<tsmithe> the package has previously had one advocate (persia)
<Nafallo> oh
<Nafallo> that's better then random numbers :-)
<tsmithe> it is a notation program for linux, :)
<tsmithe> Nafallo, random numbers?
<persia> tsmithe: Yes, but I don't like it any more.  You should use install or dh_install rather than cp.
<Nafallo> tsmithe: ?package=$package :-)
<persia> tsmithe: Also, you likely want to use dh_link
<tsmithe> Nafallo, ah well, it has a number too. the number is quite nice; 1024
<tsmithe> persia, ok. i have to use cp, as the symlink usr/share/mscore can only be created after the files have been dh_install'd
<tsmithe> ah
<tsmithe> i understand about dh_link now :p
<persia> tsmithe: Right, which is why dh_link appears after dh_install :)
<tsmithe> yes :)
<tsmithe> wait, no. same problem: dh_install creates the mscore-<whatever> directory. then, the symlink is created to usr/share/mscore. then, the .u-n file is installed to usr/share/mscore. this all happens to make upgrading the package easier; this release creates mscore-0.7, next may be mscore-0.8. i don't want to have to keep updating the rules file for each release, if it can be helped
<tsmithe> the symlink can't be created before the mscore-<whatever> directory, because whatever is creating the symlink will not know then what <whatever> is
<persia> tsmithe: Why version /usr/share/mscore?
<persia> tsmithe: Anyway, you can get that from dpkg-parsechangelog, but I agree that dh_link would have trouble.
<tsmithe> upstream said he wants to make it possible for other users, not necessarily ours, to install more than one version concurrently for testing. some files there are version specific, so he versions /usr/share/mscore
<persia> tsmithe: That's a good reason then :)  The other alternative to make me happy is to use install instead of cp.
<tsmithe> ok then. what are the advantages?
<persia> tsmithe: It looks nicer?
<persia> You can set the permissions.
<tsmithe> i don't need to set special permissions? but ok, i'll do ask you say. i need to make another upload to explain the versioning of /usr/share/mscore anyhow
<persia> tsmithe: Don't worry about it.  If /usr/share/mscore needs to be versioned, your solution works, my aesthetic preferences aside.
<tsmithe> i want to make the new upload :)
 * tsmithe wonders why revu is taking so long to show his latest upload
<warp10> I'm packaging a software whose Makefile installs in /usr/local. Using dpatch to modify the originale Makefile is a good way to modify the path or should I follow another way?
<DaveMorris> warp10: no configure I assume
<persia> tsmithe: Are you sure you uploaded to REVU?  I can't find it.
<tsmithe> no - you're right. i just checked my e-mails and looks like i accidentally uploaded to ubuntu.
<persia> warp10: Sometimes the Makefile will have a means to override the default location, in which case you want to pass make the right arguments.  If you do patch the upstream makefile, patching it to be configurable is preferable, as you can pass that patch upstream, and drop it in the next release.
<warp10> DaveMorris: it is. It's a simple software written in C, just make && make install
<warp10> persia: so, just modifying the paths in the makefile through a patch is not a polite way to do it, is it?
<persia> warp10: That would be a patch you'd have to maintain.  If you update the makefile to allow the passing of a variable with a default of /usr/local/ if not set, then you can just pass the variable in debian/rules, and upstream might want the patch.
<warp10> persia: ok, thanks. Indeedn, the makefile has a prefix variable. Probably this is what I'm looking for.
<persia> warp10: That makes it easy then :)
<warp10> persia: unofrtunately, this is a game, so I should install it in /usr/games, but the prefix variable is used for icon and .desktop file too, so probably I have to edit the Makefile anyway
<warp10> s/unofrtunately/unfortunately
<persia> warp10: Well, you could shift things around in debian/rules after the $(make) install call.
<warp10> persia: using cp?
<persia> warp10: No, mv.  You don't want extra copies, do you?
<warp10> pecisk:ops, mv of course. Thank
<persia> (e.g. mv debian/tmp/usr/games/applications debian/tmp/usr/share/applications)
<warp10> s/pecsik/persia :)
<tsmithe> persia, apachelogger, anyone else: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=mscore&upid=1025 please :)
<jimqode> does anyone know what command gnome "switch user" feature calls?
<DaveMorris> wrap10 you could always get the program to build with something like autotools instead (although this is harder)
<warp10> DaveMorris: Thanks. Anyway, I'll probably try to modify the rules, I need (a lot of) practice with rules and makefiles :)
<persia> DaveMorris: That's a fairly invasive patch, no?
<DaveMorris> persia: yeah, but I was thinking doing it for upstream, then just consume :)
<RainCT> can someone check bug 176147 and bug 176192 please?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 176147 in usbmount "Update maintainer field in version 0.0.14.1" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/176147
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 176192 in eterm "Candidate for version 0.9.4.0debian1-2ubuntu2" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/176192
<persia> RainCT: Those are fine.  Please put them back in the sponsors queue.  Sorry for the confusion.
<tsmithe> persia, do you know if fluidsynth can be made to work with the old freepats stuff at all? or does it require the soundfont?
<persia> tsmithe: I don't know offhand.  I just used a soundfont, as I couldn't even get timidity to work properly without one.
<RainCT> persia: ok, thanks :)
<tsmithe> ok, single sound fonts are a lot more convenient, it has to be said. hopefully, the notification in mscore should be adequate in the meantime
<persia> RainCT: In the future, it might be worth mentioning in the bug comment that you don't expect to maintain the delta, and are really just pushing the maintainer change as otherwise the package isn't policy compliant when you attach the patch.
<RainCT> persia: Okay. Is it encouraged to do such changes or is it prefered to just update the maintainer?
<persia> RainCT: Probably better to just update the maintainer.  The other stuff is fairly useless, and likely to be overwritten.  If you can find another bug to fix along the way, that's a bonus.
<joejaxx> i hope Gnomefreak feels better :(
<somerville32> joejaxx, hmm?
<somerville32> What is the package name for gtk dev stuff?
<joejaxx> should be libgtk${version}-dev
<Daviey> siretart: ping
<zul> 'noon
<chantra> hi there
<warp10> persia: I still have problems with paths
<persia> warp10: Even when you use mv?  I guess you need a patch then.  I still think it would be best to use variables so that you can push upstream, rather than maintaining an Ubuntu-specific diff.
<warp10> persia: makefile set the prefix to /usr/local and install executable to $(PREFIX)/bin, so if I pass /usr/games as prefix to make, it installs to /usr/games/bin
<persia> Right.  It should install to $(PREFIX)/$(BINDIR)
<warp10> persia: I could fix everything with mv in debian/rules, but It doesn't look polite to me
<persia> warp10: As long as you do it in debian/rules, it's polite, if annoying for you.  Patching the Makefile is more invasive, but if you can do it in a way that works for both you and upstream, depending on the variables passed to make, then you can send the Makefile patch upstream, and call it contribution, which is always polite.
<persia> Patching the makefile agressively, or changing the build system completely would be less polite (although sometimes it is required).
<warp10> persia: Ok. I'll use mv in makefile and contact upstream to find a solution togheter
<persia> warp10: Finding a solution together is the best way :)
<joejaxx> does anyone have a good example of a source package that build multiple binary packages and does not use cdbs?
<joejaxx> s/build/builds/g
<tsmithe> mscore!
<persia> joejaxx: The trick is to use dh_install just so: the dh_install manpage is quite informative, but you might have to read it a few times (took me about five or six to get it).
<joejaxx> persia: i am actually talking about the format of the rules file :)
<joejaxx> persia: for example different configure flags for both packages
<tsmithe> hmm that does sound awkward. i'd be interested to see how you'd do that without building the sources multiple times
<persia> joejaxx: For that, it's mostly about using -i for the debhelper calls in the build-arch: rule and -a for the debhelper calls in the build-arch-indep: rule.  IF you want something very involved, you might look at wxedgets2.6, but it's not easy to follow.
<joejaxx> persia: ok
<joejaxx> persia: ah fun :D
<joejaxx> persia: it is easy to follow :D
<joejaxx> thanks for this example
<joejaxx> its exactl what i needed
<joejaxx> exactly*
<siretart> Daviey: sorry, I don't like virtual table tennis
<persia> easy?  I find it one of the strangest debian/rules around, but it does handle the case of mixed arch-any & arch-all with all sorts of different options and recompiles.
<joejaxx> persia: yeah
<joejaxx> for me it is
<joejaxx> i cannot stand 2-4 liner rule files
<joejaxx> which is why i do not like cdbs
<joejaxx> lol
<persia> joejaxx: Simplicity is bad?  OK.  As long as it works for you :)
 * tsmithe doesn't like cdbs because he has to check loads of included files to see what's going on
<Ubulette> cdbs is really good if you already know how to do complex packages without it. otherwise, it's just dark magic.
<persia> Ubulette: Maybe.  Depends on how you learn.  If you start knowing make well, CDBS is reasonably well documented.  If you don't, it's perhaps a little odd.  Personally, I understand complex packages in CDBS, but really messy debian/rules confuse me: especially when they try to mix shell scripting & make.
<Ubulette> I prefer cdbs but sometimes, it makes the package impossible to understand by anyone else than the author.
<persia> (or another CDBS person)
<joejaxx> yes! exactly! :P
<joejaxx> its the blackbox of debian packaging haha
<joejaxx> :P
<joejaxx> two-liner debian/rules file -> cdbs "blackbox" -> debian package magically appears
<joejaxx> :P
<joejaxx> hello LaserJock :)
<LaserJock> hi joejaxx
<joejaxx> :)
<Daviey> siretart: Any chance of another push of gnucash to your PPA :)
<siretart> Daviey: do you have a source package for review for me?
<LaserJock> siretart: you've got gnucash in your PPA?
<Daviey> siretart: no :(, trying to - but pbuilder keeps failing :(
<Daviey> LaserJock: he does
<siretart> LaserJock: well, in the meantime, we have even created a gnucash team for having a gnucash team ppa
<siretart> I would have already removed it from my ppa if I could
<LaserJock> siretart: what is the purpose of the PPA?
<Daviey> oh :(
<Daviey> LaserJock: I'm guessing frequent SVN checkout builds
<Flare183> what is the difference between using the regular rules file and using/refering to the cdbs folder?
<joejaxx> that is why i have not used my ppa yet
<joejaxx> there is no way to revoke packages
<persia> joejaxx: siretart: packages may be removed from a PPA by request to the LP devs.
<joejaxx> persia: i mean direct way :D
<Ubulette> good. debdiffs posted to bug 164640. not sure i should subscribe main sponsors or let seb128 decide
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 164640 in xulrunner-1.9 "Build Firefox 3 against a subpixel-patched cairo" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164640
<TheMuso> Hey folks.
<persia> Ubulette: He's one of the main sponsors, so it's likely the same either way.
<persia> Good morning TheMuso
<dfiloni> persia: ping
 * persia watches a small white sphere float off into the distance
<Ubulette> persia, I guess I have to change the status for libcairo and also add fontconfig
<dfiloni> persia: I'm reading your latest comment on bug #172588. Salvatore Palma is a my friend, it is a newbie, what he should?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 172588 in atanks "[atanks] no .desktop file " [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172588
<dfiloni> persia: step to step
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> ugh
<persia> dfiloni: It's entirely the wrong time of day here for me to answer that effectively.  Perhaps someone else could help?  Otherwise, try me in ~15 hours (although ~39 would probably be better)
<dfiloni> persia: what time is it for you?
<persia> 05:14
<dfiloni> persia: oh my god, why you aren't on your bed?
<joejaxx> persia: :P
<persia> I think it was said best as "sleep is for the week"
<Ubulette> pun intended ?
<persia> Ubulette: I suspect.  It was a quote.
<Ubulette> :)
<dfiloni> persia: I wil contact you tomorrow to say what Salvatore Palma should do
<dfiloni> persia: sorry, this evening
<persia> dfiloni: No need to wait.  Ask someone else to help.
<dfiloni> ok
<somerville32> week or weak? :S
<dfiloni> persia: go to sleep, in the latest days you was connected on irc 24h at day
<joejaxx> lol `screen` ftw :)
<Ubulette> persia, i've just pushed to revu my "native" mozilla dev package we've talked about a few days ago.
<Ubulette> see, i didn't give up on it.
<warp10> persia, and other: I upped the package I was working on. I would be happy to read your comments on it. http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=tennix
<LaserJock> poor persia
<persia> warp10: Isn't bug #176723 a duplicate of bug #149847?
<LaserJock> he's the new crimsun ;-)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 176723 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Tennix" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/176723
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 149847 in ubuntu "[hardy]  [needs-packaging] Tennix 0.4.1" [Wishlist,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/149847
<persia> LaserJock: Except I try to avoid updating alsa (but dangerously am currently touching alsa-tools)
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> persia: commented on gc-utils btw
<joejaxx> LaserJock: haha
<joejaxx> :P
<warp10> persia: just before starting to work on it I searched on launchpad, but 149847 is invalid so it didn't show up and I missed it
<persia> LaserJock: Thanks.  It had been a couple weeks and needed another yes or no.
<dsop> LaserJock: thanks
<Ubulette> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=mozilla-devscripts
<persia> warp10: Invalid?  Strange status for a needs-packaging bug.  Mind sorting it out.  Given that almost nothing makes it in the first REVU round, it's not likely worth an upload until you get a real review.
<LaserJock> persia, dsop: it looked pretty good except it needs deps on cvs and git-cvs :-)
<dsop> LaserJock: i'll add it right now.
<warp10> persia: yes, it's status is invalid. I have found it just before asking your review, when I saw someone upped before me
<persia> warp10: It probably wants to be changed back to "In Progress" and assigned to you, and the new one set as a dup, just to keep the bug database accurate.
<warp10> persia: Ok, I'll do that
<persia> warp10: Thanks.
<dsop> LaserJock: should i also update to standards 3.7.3?
<warp10> persia: ok, done
<persia> warp10: Exccellent.  Change the bug in your local source, and include it in the update after your next review.
<dsop> LaserJock, persia: and lintian warns me that i use the binary-arch target, should i use the binary-indep target to do all the dh_* stuff in debian/rules?
<dsop> because my package is arch independent
<warp10> persia: ok :)
<griffinc> Hi, I have read the MOTU wiki pages on syncing but had a question about what to document in the launchpad bug report.
<griffinc> I had been working on launchpad #173117 (wmbinclock) as a merge and geser noted that the current Debian sid package built and installed fine in a hardy pbuilder.  I was able to verify this so he suggested a sync.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173117 in wmbinclock "Please upload merge wmbinclock-0.5-5 (universe) from debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173117
<griffinc> The previous Ubuntu packages had included xlibs-dev, x11proto-xext-dev, and libxt-dev as Build-Depends due to the xorg transition.  xlibs-dev has been deprecated in fact.  Now that the xorg transition is over, those build-depends can be removed, which is why I believe the Debian package works now.
<griffinc> So, in my sync request, do I just explain this in the bug report?  I don't really understand what I'm supposed to document.  Do I document this in the changelog or does the sync process take care of the changelog?
<griffinc> I have worked on a previous merge but this is my first sync.  :-)
<Adri2000> griffinc: there is no ubuntu changelog at all in a sync, we take the debian package as it is. you need to say in the bug report the rational for the sync, but it's just for the sponsor who will ack the sync and for the archive admin who will process it
<persia> griffinc: Yes.  For sync requests, I recommend including three pieces of information:  1) the version you wish to sync, where it comes from (usually Debian unstable (main)) and where it goes to (usually universe).  2) An explanation of why it should be synchronised.  Discuss any Ubuntu delta that will be removed, and any benefit that will be gained by the sync (this should be just a few lines).  Mention that it builds correctly.  3) The Debian ch
<Adri2000> persia: cut at "3) The Debian ch"
<persia> Adri2000: Also for documentation if there is an issue with the synchronised package.
 * persia hates buffers "3) The Debian changelog since the last merge or sync."
<dsop> persia: is it okay to use build-indep instead of build-arch when building an archindependent package or should i still use build-arch?
<griffinc> ok, cool  I guess it's a dumb question, hehe.  It seems pretty straightforward.  Thanks!
<persia> dsop: I'm not the best person to ask about that.  I think build-indep is better.
<persia> griffinc: There's a requestsync program in ubuntu-dev-tools that some people think makes it easy.
<dsop> LaserJock: i updated gc-utils. thanks for the review and for the suggestions. I added git-cvs and cvs as a dependency
<griffinc> persia, yes, I saw that documented in the wiki.  I'll try that out.  thank you for the help.
<ikonia> imbrandon: are you awake and do you have a moment free please.
<persia> ikonia: Unless you really need imbrandon, you may have better luck asking your question generally.
<ikonia> I actually need imbrandon
<ikonia> I'm picking up a previous conversation and would like to ask his opinion on how to handle it due to the bug being worked on and how it effects other bugs
<persia> ikonia: Ah.  Oh well.  You get to wait then.  If you get bored, ask around :)
<ikonia> no problem happy to wait, it won't take long once imbrandon has 2 minutes free
<ikonia> be nice to put a few things to bed properly,
<somerville32> !ask | ikonia   :P
<ubotu> ikonia   :P: Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question :)
<ikonia> somerville32: I'm looking for a discussion with an individual. Please don't waste channel buffer with pointless ubotu posts to me
<somerville32> IRC is stateless. Please don't waste the channel asking if someone is around ;]
<persia> Err.  There's no buffer limit.
<persia> You're both right, but maybe it's good to be careful about tone :)
<crimsun> ikonia: if this question regards flashplugin-nonfree, it doesn't block on Brandon being present.
<crimsun> (We don't have maintainers for the pools of packages as Debian does.)
<ikonia> I appriciate that, I'd like to follow up conversation I had with him to follow up his work
<somerville32> May I suggest e-mail?
<somerville32> :]
<ikonia> somerville32: I request you be quiet
<ikonia> I was asking if a member of the team had a momenent of free time
<ikonia> nothing more
<somerville32> ikonia, It seems like you're upset
<ikonia> not at all
 * pochu contemplates how persia falls asleep on his keyboard :-)
<pochu> persia: where are you from? I don't why I supposed you were from central europe
<pochu> s/why/know why/
<persia> pochu: Now I'm curious.  That's not one of the usual locations I hear :)
<pochu> persia: which ones do you usually hear? :)
<Ubulette> japan ? indonesia ?
<Ubulette> korea ?
<persia> pochu: Western Europe.  Asia.  North America.
<persia> (the last is correct, although I'm not there now)
<persia> Actually, there was also an Australia earlier today (also not common).
<pochu> I bet your nick is the most pronnounced one on this channel :P
<persia> pochu: I'm not sure.  I think there are stats somewhere though.
<Ubulette> the last in JST was Yakutsk but i wouldn't have bet a kopeck on it :)
<pochu> yeah, the question is where :-)
<pochu> I'm off, have an exam tomorrow. Good night folks!
<harrisony> night pochu
<somerville32> persia is the most said word in this channel
<persia> somerville32: Really?  What's #2?
<somerville32> package
<RainCT> lol
<RainCT> gratz persia :P
<persia> That's just not right.  Package.  package.  package.  package.  package.  package.  This is a channel about packaging, and making packages.
<somerville32> Persia: You'll need to say it another 21 times, persia :P
<RainCT> somerville32: where are the stats, btw
<RainCT> hahah
<somerville32> http://www.ubuntuircstats.org
<Ubulette> not on a lot of archives but here is what i got: http://paste.ubuntu.com/2803/
<persia> Ubulette: Thanks.  That makes me feel better.  Beating "the" would just be bad.
<Ubulette> you're still the 1st human
<somerville32> The bot only started like, today
<persia> Ubulette: well, yes.  And unfortunately still above package. (package should be higher, but I'm not going to type it 645 times)
<somerville32> lol
 * Fujitsu finds it a bit odd that persia is right near the top for every time period.
<persia> Fujitsu: Shhh!
 * somerville32 doesn't find it odd at all.
<crimsun> ah...I remember those days.  :-)
<Ubulette> maybe persia is in the ISS above our heads :)
<somerville32> I remember when my name used to be in the top few
 * somerville32 was proud of himself, lol
<somerville32> Although, it could mean I was doing more talking than packaging back then, haha
<Ubulette> package + packages > persia :)
<persia> \o/
<crimsun> holy geeb...ia32-libs_2.2ubuntu1.tar.gz  (433.5 MiB).  This is going to take a while...
<persia> Why is it monolithic again?
<harrisony> Anyone have a good debian/watch file for google code projects, doesnt seem to like me
<imbrandon> persia: possibly it just generates diffrent bins but the same source
<imbrandon> just a guess
<crimsun> the isp of this coffee shop is not going to be pleased.
<somerville32> Is the IT infrastructure that bad there?
<persia> imbrandon: unfortunately now.  3 binaries: the libraries, the dev librariles, and the gcc library.
<persia> s/now/not/
<crimsun> somerville32: no, it's actually quite good.  Can't complain about free wifi, but I'm blatantly abusing the AUP.
<somerville32> Ah.
<crimsun> then again, I normally wouldn't be caught dead dgetting ia32-libs source.
<imbrandon> man i think i FINALY might have found a mail app i like just as well as webmail
<somerville32> imbrandon, what app? :)
<imbrandon> i could never get mutt the way i liked it , gui apps are too bloated for my computer useage , so alpine it is
<imbrandon> somerville32: alpine
<imbrandon> e.g. pine 5.x
<imbrandon> seems perfect, i got almost everything the way i like it, keybindings and all
<imbrandon> been using it only 2 days now though
<mok0> I have strange build failures on the buildd, can someone help please?
<imbrandon> mok0: like? a log or pastebin would be helpfull
 * mok0 pastebins
<imbrandon> plus alpine intergrates nano quite nicely :)
<imbrandon> heh
<mok0> imbrandon: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/2804/
<mok0> line 350
<zul> evening
 * imbrandon looks
 * Ubulette uses mutt since 96~97, and mail/mailx before that :P
<imbrandon> heya zul
<crimsun> (you'd probably want to poke lamont for it)
<imbrandon> Ubulette: yea i liked mutt as far as features but i could ever get the keybindings and folders just the way i liked them
<imbrandon> mok0: yea i have no idea, but i'm with crimsun you might have to poke lamont
<imbrandon> the hppa buildd's might be having issues
<imbrandon> crimsun: btw did you see my email re: flashplugin-nonfree to -devel ? i know youve had intrest in the package in the past
<mok0> imbrandon: it builds fine for me both in i386 and amd64. I can't reproduce this error
<mok0> who's lamont?
<imbrandon> mok0: yea likely a buildd error os somekind, poke lamont durring the week UK time
<imbrandon> he is the canonical hppa god
<mok0> imbrandon: ok, but package fails on all platforms except i386
<Ubulette> imbrandon, you can customize everything, really
<crimsun> imbrandon: No.  (I'm /way/ behind on e-mail; there're ~12K in the queue.)
<imbrandon> Ubulette: yea i know, but after a few weeks i just couldent get it "quite right"
<imbrandon> crimsun: wow
<imbrandon> crimsun: basicly were at the stage now where the 2 viable choices imho are , knowingly break konq ( not a good idea ) or force a 60mb download of r48 for gutsy on back
<imbrandon> and r115 for hardy forward
<somerville32> imbrandon, Have you thought about contacting upstream?
<imbrandon> somerville32: yea, but their awnsers is fix konqueror
<imbrandon> e.g a sru for konq with untested new svn only code
<imbrandon> not cool
<imbrandon> infact its only in novel atm , not even upstream
<imbrandon> so realy realy new
<somerville32> Have we ever asked them to change how they package upstream or permission to distribute?
<imbrandon> s/novel/novell , s/novell/suse
<zul> bah no one uses konq anyways ;)
<persia> zul: Except Kubuntu users by default
<crimsun> ok, patching kde is a non-starter
<imbrandon> somerville32: we cant
<somerville32> imbrandon, we can't ask them?
<imbrandon> we have and we cant
<imbrandon> they dont grant rights to anyone to do so
<crimsun> I agree with Scott's response
<zul> persia: elinks would be a better choice for kubuntu users ;)
<persia> crimsun: patching KDE for gutsy?
<imbrandon> crimsun: i tend to also, but more opinions is good, specialy since i know you've delt with it before
<imbrandon> somerville32: sorry to be so short with you, dont mean to be, but yes weve been down that road
<crimsun> hmm, not all of Scott's response.  Clarification: test the kde changes in Hardy.  For the currently supported stable releases, go the 60MB route.
<imbrandon> right thats whay i thought his response was
<crimsun> 115 doesn't fix any security issues and seems to be only a feature-add.
<imbrandon> right, x264
<imbrandon> and gtk menus
<crimsun> anyhoo, that's my fairly useless $0.02.  :-)
<imbrandon> and imho even an invasive change to the package to make it grab the 60mb one for a stable release would 1 make us not have to sru more updates on new releases
<imbrandon> and would be better than a patch to kde
<persia> imbrandon: If you're doing that, why not do the full download for every release, including current development, freezing the version at something considered stable.  Saves trying to detect the system carefully.
<imbrandon> and basicly say sorry to those in .au that loose a liver due to isp charges , the cost of using a binary blob
<crimsun> man, we really should just have *ubuntu-desktop Conflict flashplugin-nonfree and rip the latter out of hardy.
<imbrandon> persia: i would have to check if the r115 ( e.g. current ) is in the archive also, if it is that could be an option
<persia> crimsun: Why bother with the conflict: ?
<persia> flashplugin-nonfree goes away about 3 months after we stop updating the md5sum anyway.
<crimsun> persia: well, pedantically we shouldn't, but it's a total pain to deal with flashplugin-nonfree.
<persia> (or rather, becomes completely useless)
<imbrandon> really i guess there is the 5th option of group deciding to have it blacklisted ( not to import it from debian ) and remove it from hardy, and go the 60mb route for sru's
<persia> crimsun: Sure.  I'm all for archive removal.  I just don't think it also needs a Conflicts:
 * persia likes the 5th option, but not being a flashplugin-nonfree user isn't sure that means much
<crimsun> firefox's plugin finder wizard handles it ok.  Do Opera, Konqueror, Epiphany, etc. have similar capability?
<imbrandon> crimsun: right now r115 breaks everything but firefox anyhow, infact in r115 it specificly looks for the FF UA string
<imbrandon> the konq patch part of it spoofs the UA to r115 just because of that
<crimsun> how nice.
<imbrandon> yea
<persia> Epiphany doesn't seem to have that sort of functionality (although it could likely be exposed).
<imbrandon> basicly adobe is saying if your not FF or IE, screw you
<imbrandon> litterly in code
<imbrandon> the new unreleased opera apparently has a patch too, but even opera ( atleaste on linux ) has the same issue
<persia> That makes it easy then.  Set up all the other browsers not to work with flashplugin-nonfree, and have firefox use the internal plugin finder.  If anyone complains, point at the Adobe support documentation.
<persia> (and blacklist the package)
<imbrandon> persia: well thats one issuse, konq automaticly loads FF/mozilla plugins that are installed
<imbrandon> from upstream, thats not us, its a konq "feature"
<persia> imbrandon: Ah.  And I suppose that Adobe refusing to work with it is insufficient for it to not load.
<imbrandon> right
<crimsun> ia32-libs seems nasty (just from reading debian/README.build)
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> gouki: ping
<cyberix> imo https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/Debdiff is quite wtf
<RainCT> bug 174123 can be unsubscribed from u-u-s
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 174123 in ubuntu-dev-tools "No manpage or --help option for check-sysmbols" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174123
<cyberix> The example is about turning a Debian package into an Ubuntu package?
<persia> cyberix: Yep.  That's a lot of what we do.
<cyberix> But the page says the example is about changing _one word_ in package description.
<cyberix> It says nothing about transpackaging.
<persia> cyberix: It's written for someone who generates a first Ubuntu variation from one of the 13,000 Debian source packages in the Ubuntu archive.
<crimsun> the principle is creating a suitable patch.
<persia> RainCT: absolute paths in .desktop files break themes
<crimsun> it's certainly not an "optimal" example [is there one?]; feel free to contribute something "better."
<RainCT> persia: where did I put one?
<cyberix> persia: K. It might want to state that then.
<persia> RainCT: xsensors.  The old value also broke themes, so it's not a regression.
<RainCT> wasn't that a menu file?
 * RainCT checks the debdiff
<persia> RainCT: xsensors-0.50/debian/xsensors.desktop
<RainCT> oh, right
<RainCT> persia: sorry, debdiff replaced
<persia> RainCT: Thanks.
<persia> RainCT: It still breaks themes (has an extension), but don't worry about it.  As I said before, it's not a regression.
<RainCT> uhm.. I should go to bed lol
<totopalma> RainCT, hi :)
<RainCT> hey totopalma
<persia> RainCT: If you're planning a lot of those, you might consider one bug with many tasks.  That way any discussion can be seen in a single bug log.
#ubuntu-motu 2008-12-08
<RAOF> Right.  Which means I should upload the new evolution-sharp to Jaunty, too.
 * jdong nods
<RAOF> Sadly I can't do that through Experimental; the new upstream fails to build against < e-d-s 2.24.
<RAOF> Even though it says it should on the box. :(
<jdong> kees: I must be bored out of my mind; I'm actually rewriting all my rcS and rc2 scripts as upstart jobs, without using lsb-functions at all
<TheMuso> jdong: Yes, you must be bored.
<jdong> TheMuso: I'd be willing to bet money this would make bootup thrash like hell and not terribly useful until I get a SSD :)
<TheMuso> imbrandon!!
<kees> jdong: ah you at uds? it'd be great to see the work. i know both keybuk and kirkland are very interested in doing that kind of thing
<jdong> kees: no, unfortunately I am not
<jdong> kees: my first go-through will likely be a hackjob that involves extensive copy-pasting from our init system with my best guesses at the dependency relationships :)
<jdong> I just want to get an understanding of the challenges with a fully parallelized boot
<jdong> if it's not a horrible unfinishable mess I'll probably send something out to the mailing list
<jdong> I've BARELY got to S37 :)
 * jdong wonders if he can write a mechanical python hook to generate wrapper upstart event jobs based on installed init.d scripts
<kees> heh cool.
<jdong> I oddly recall starting to write such a thing two years ago, in fact!
 * jdong greps his ~/src
<jdong> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~uphackers/uphack/uphack-tools
<jdong> aha!
<jdong> upconv/uphack.
<jdong> is it sad that I've done so many of these crazy things I don't know if I conceived it in a dream or actually wrote it?
 * jdong tries to think "What plane" mentioned in revno 6....
<jdong> was that what I was doing over spring break?
<psusi> if a package generates conf files after it is installed, is there any way for dpkg to keep track of that so they can be removed if the package is purged?
<psusi> I'm wondering about /var/lib/gconf/defaults/*... dpkg does not show the files as having come from any package, but gconf2-common created the directory with no files in it... I assume they must have been generated somehow after install?
<jdong> *HOLY CRAP*
<jdong> kees: it booted!
<jdong> I am not convinced it's any faster though
<jdong> and TODO: figure out how to shut it down :D
<jdong> 25s in vmware....
 * jdong is almost curious enough to try this natively
<psusi> jdong: what are you playing with now? ;)
<jdong> psusi: upstart
<jdong> psusi: a quick and dirty python script that generates dummy upstart jobs for each rcS.d-rc2.d script
<psusi> you mean you are making an upstart job for each individual script instead of just having one job that runs /etc/init.d/rc?
<jdong> right.
<psusi> why?
<jdong> with a basic set of heuristics for job dependencies.
<jdong> parallelized boot
<psusi> doesn't rc already have an option to do that?
<jdong> psusi: it doesn't seem to be as parallel
<psusi> ohh.. I guess it only runs jobs with the same Snn level in parallel...
<psusi> I see now why you are surprised that it worked ;)
<jdong> psusi: lemme generate a quick dot diagram of my dependency graph urrently
<jdong> psusi: http://jdong.mit.edu/~jdong/upstart-dep.png
<jdong> pretty neat looking
<ScottK> jdong: Now that Debian has dependency base boot sequencing done with sysv init's, how much is this conversion really likely to buy us?
<jdong> ScottK: I was unaware debian has this
<jdong> how does that fit into our plan to completely go upstart though?
<jdong> this for me is just an experiment in what an upstart-booting parallelized system buys us
<ScottK> jdong: I'm wondering why we're doing that.
<jdong> well upstart represents job relationships in a better way IMO
<jdong> it fits the model of the modern Linux machine better than a bunch of start-stop scripts.
<ScottK> jdong: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2008/11/msg00007.html
<psusi> I have often wondered whether paralellizing the boot scripts might cause more slow down that it makes up for, due to all the tasks competing for resources at once
<jdong> psusi: I think it must.
<ScottK> jdong: Sure, no doubt it's better, but is it enough better to be worth the additional difference between Debian and Ubuntu.
<psusi> jdong: wouldn't each job finish faster if it wasn't fighting the others for access to the cpu, ram, and disk IO?
<jdong> psusi: not really when the jobs aren't really bound by the same resource.
<psusi> I mean theoretically the only way you get benefit from parallel jobs is if each job is only using a subset of the available resources, so each job will use the resources that the other jobs aren't.... if they are competing for the same resources though, it slows things down
<jdong> the former is the case according to my bootchart
<psusi> so you almost need a way of scheduling the jobs that uses information about what resources they use so it only parallelizes jobs that don't conflict for the same resource
<psusi> like if one job is IO bound and one is CPU bound, then run both at once
<jdong> well competing for disk right now is the biggest problem.
<jdong> I could care less if they compete for CPU or RAM
<psusi> but you don't want to run two jobs at once that are both IO bound
<jdong> I think a bit of aio scheduler hackery can work around the IO contention though
<psusi> eh?
<jdong> psusi: sysv: http://jdong.mit.edu/~jdong/macbook/bootchart-sysv.png
<jdong> upstart: http://jdong.mit.edu/~jdong/macbook/bootchart-upstart.png
<jdong> 27s vs 22s
<psusi> if both jobs are IO bound, wouldn't it be best to just run them sequentially so that they aren't causing the head to keep seeking back and forth?
<jdong> still relatively untweaked with mechanically-generated rules.
<jdong> the 67 . /lib/lsb/init-function.sh calls are probably representing significant overhead too
<jdong> psusi: the AIO scheduler with large timeslices can alleviate a lot of the seeking though.
<jdong> psusi: and frankly single tasks during bootup seek crazily enough
<jdong> we don't really have any guarantee that each task alone doesn't thrash.
<jdong> http://jdong.mit.edu/~jdong/macbook/hardy-upstart-defragged.png
<jdong> that's an optimized run with readahead/boot listed files rewritten to disk
<psusi> take readahead-list for example.. it looks like right now you block the remaining tasks until readahead is done, because you don't want them trying to read bits before readahead gets them, causing seeking
<psusi> ideally you want to start other jobs that are more cpu bound while readahead runs so you can keep both the disk and cpu busy
<psusi> the aio scheduler? is that a new io scheduler?
<psusi> I'm confused as to what aio has to do with the elevator
<psusi> jdong: ideally you want the files readahead is fetching to be all sequential near the start of the disk... or at least modify readahead to be able to keep a cached copy of all of it somewhere like windows' prefetching does
<jdong> psusi: (1) that depchart is not up to date; there ARE a few other things that I have moved up to be parallel with readahead
<psusi> jdong: being able to pack the readahead files sequentially at the start of the disk is one of the reasons I'm trying to rescue e2defrag
<jdong> (2) Yes, I'd like for all the boot files to be near the start of the disk and sequential.
<jdong> you don't want to see my symlink farm method for forcing that with a tiny 100MB /prefetch partition :P
<psusi> what would be nice is if you could have the kernel block the other jobs if they request a block that readahead has not already pulled into cache and wait until readahead gets it without seeking... maybe you could do that with IO priorities?
<jdong> that was my next tier of hacks.
<jdong> you're getting ahead of me!
<psusi> ;)
<jdong> ionicing and nicing was my next set of master ugly hacks :P
<jdong> I first want to get this set of jbos correct
<jdong> still getting a few races I need to sort out
<psusi> hrm... your max disk throughptu was only 12 MB/s?
<jdong> rofs and dev/pts mounting not at the right time :)
<psusi> that seems rather low
<jdong> it's a laptop on ata_piix emulation.
<psusi> eww
<jdong> this can be a LOT faster with a proper computer.
<jdong> in fact I'm curious enough to try it...
 * jdong digs out his production system
<psusi> jdong: dual core cpu?  kind of funny how the graph only shows 50% IO wait time during readahead-list
<jdong> yup
<psusi> I wonder how much it will help to use e2defrag to pack the files on readahead-list in order at the start of the disk
<psusi> I need to finish getting that reintroduced to the repository
<jdong> :)
<psusi> I finally got around to creating a project for it on lp and checking it into bzr
<psusi> hrm... I wonder why you still have a good deal of disk IO after the readahead is done... looks like it is done by modprobe
<jdong> psusi: modprobe blocks hard in the kernel at several points
<jdong> which inflates bootchart
<jdong> ok, so 34s stock boot no tricks....
<jdong> *unpacks event.d*
<jdong> 27s upstart
 * psusi shakes his head at his WD raptors and their WAAAAAY off standby timers
 * ScottK-laptop thinks anyone who uses WD hard drives deserves whatever they get.
<ScottK-laptop> nellery: I just sent you kind of a nasty note about your milter-greylist merge.  I'm not as annoyed as the comment in the bug probably sounds.
<lidaobing> please help review iptux 0.4.2-0ubuntu1(new package): http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=4186, thanks
<nellery> ScottK-laptop: Hi, just read it
<nellery> I'll be sure to ask the last merger next time.  Thanks for the heads up.
<ScottK-laptop> nellery: Also, since Debian moved to quilt, I think it's better our change is in quilt too.  FYI for next time.
<ScottK-laptop> nellery: Note that once we get past roughly DIF, merges are pretty much free for all if they haven't been merged at least once in the cycle.
<ScottK-laptop> lidaobing: Is this the same iptux sitting in Debian New?
<nellery> ScottK-laptop: I'll definitely look out for that in the future, thanks again
<ScottK-laptop> No problem.
<lidaobing> ScottK-laptop, Debian new? let me check, I think I still waiting for RFS
<psusi> ScottK-laptop: why do you say that?  don't like high performance hardware?  I've been messing with lm-sensors and laptop-mode lately and it seems these things have very strange ideas of when they should spin down... one of these days I need to write a kernel patch to have it manage the standby of disks properly instead of leaving it to them
<lidaobing> ScottK-laptop, I can't find it in Debian new queue, http://ftp-master.debian.org/new.html, any more information?
<ScottK-laptop> psusi: Excepting one hard drive in a laptop that died right after it was in a car in a severe accident, every single hard drive I've had fail that was less than 5 years old in the last 20 years has been a WD.
<ScottK-laptop> lidaobing: Maybe I mis-remember.  Let me check.
<psusi> ScottK-laptop: wow, that's hard to believe... in my many years of experience WD drives are usually very reliable... though usually not that fast.. you sure you aren't thinking of IBM?  specifically their deskstar series?  or as I like to call them, deathstar
<ScottK-laptop> lidaobing: I don't see it there now, but I'm pretty sure it was.  I wonder if it got rejected for something.  A lot of stuff got processed through New yesterda.
<ScottK-laptop> psusi: Nope.  That's my experience.  The laptop HD that died in the car accident was an IBM, but I think that's the only one of those I've had.
<ScottK-laptop> Now it's not many hard drives mind you, but it is all of them ...
<lidaobing> ScottK-laptop, no information in http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=507451, and did not recieve any email for it.
<ubottu> Debian bug 507451 in wnpp "ITP: iptux -- IP Messenger client for Linux" [Wishlist,Open]
<ScottK-laptop> lidaobing: It's also possible I misremember.
<jdong> psusi: ok I might be cheating now: http://jdong.mit.edu/~jdong/upstart-dep-lazy.png
<jdong> moved 70% of the bootup to sleep 10; after GDM :D
<psusi> jdong: eh?
<jdong> psusi: kickstart gdm first and then worry about booting up the rest of the system :)
<psusi> doesn't gdm depend on the rest of the system already being started? ;)
<jdong> no, the graph shows the boot order relationship
<jdong> i.e. it's a dirty topsort of the graph
<jdong> i.e. B's "start on starting A" shows as A->B
<psusi> jdong: what's readahead_desktop?
<jdong> the LTSP version of readahead.
<jdong> it doesn't matter here
<psusi> I see... you start gdm before things like laptop_mode and and cron... that seems ok
<psusi> jdong: I'm wondering if it is doing readahead on things that gdm or the things gdm starts reads, in which case it probably isn't a great idea to start gdm before it
<jdong> psusi: I'm gonna do a control run with no readahead
<jdong> and then carefully readahead JUST up to the gdm point.
<psusi> jdong: and you know, there are probably some things, like rsyncd, that could be started up after gdm has had some time to initialize and get to a login
<jdong> psusi: everything after gdm is (1) sleep 10 (2) ionice -c3 (3) nice 20
<jdong> 22s
<psusi> jdong: ohh, so you give gdm 10 seconds to start up then start loading everything else with low priority?  after the user already has a login prompt?  nice
<psusi> jdong: and what was the base time on a stock system?
<psusi> jdong: mountoverflowtmp should probably be done before dbus on down
<jdong> psusi: around 37s
<jdong> and yes I am reworking the dep tree still
<jdong> what uses perl during bootup?
<jdong> still about 22s stable.
<jdong> I think I've hit a fundamental limit :)
<psusi> jdong: also it looks like readahead is executed in parallel to most everything else... probably should wait for readahead to finish or the things that would benefit from it can fight with readahead seeking back and forth
<psusi> or ideally maybe use multiple readahead lists for several different stages... readahead stage 1, then boot the parts that use those files while readahead stage 2 runs in the background, then once stage1 finishes, launch stage2 jobs
<psusi> see what I'm getting at?  maybe take dbus as a good split point... build one readahead list for everything prior to dbus... read that list in entirely first, then start all jobs prior to dbus
<psusi> then have a second readahead list for all jobs starting with dbus and after, and read that list at the same time as you run all of the jobs before dbus
<psusi> then start dbus and all after only once the second readahead list is done
<jdong> interesting; 34MiB of readahead necessary
<psusi> also stop_readahead looks like it is run in parallel with many jobs, so it may or may not record files needed by, policykit, for example
<jdong> psusi: oh I'm not profiling with upstart enabled.
<jdong> I have a simulated sysv setup that activates via bootflag, for profiling
<psusi> ahh
<jdong> such a hack :D
<jdong> just "defragged" readahead data.
<psusi> what do you think of having multiple readahead stages?
<jdong> untarred it really fast, that is :)
<jdong> well I'm considering the idea of multiple readahead stages
<jdong> just right now it's terribly annoying to get profiled
<psusi> yea... difficult, but may yield sweet fruit
<jdong> 20s
<jdong> significant difference from rewriting out readahead/boot's files
<psusi> no sense making mountall_sh and networking wait for readahead to finish fetching data that won't be needed until you start cups
<psusi> hehe, now get them to be stored in the order they are read ;)
<jdong> lol I think I'm gonna call it a night with stupid bootup tricks :D
<psusi> hehe.... I want to see that boot time down to 10 seconds ;)
<jdong> psusi: in case you're bored: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~uphackers/uphack/uphack-tools
<jdong> there's upconv which reads in /etc/rc*.d and spits out /tmp/event.d
<jdong> and depchart which when executed depchart /tmp/event.d | dot -Tpng > foo.png, creates a .png :)
<jdong> psusi: I'd be interested to see a SSD bench
<jdong> oh to bootstrap you should probably keep your existing tty* and make them start on started mountall_sh
<jdong> otherwise you may find yourself lacking terminal(s) :)
<psusi> cool... I got one for you: https://launchpad.net/~e2defrag ;)
<psusi> eh?  aren't the getty's already started as their own upstart jobs?
<jdong> psusi: yes but my magical event.d generator does not generate the special tty jobs
<psusi> jdong: I'm saying I thought the tty jobs already existed in event.d and don't need generated from rc scripts
<jdong> psusi: from what I remember, to bootstrap copy the auto-generated event.d files into /etc/event.d, then rm /etc/event.d/rc*
<jdong> psusi: and the pre-generated tty jobs depend on "runlevel"
<jdong> i.e. the rc jobs
<psusi> I could have sworn the way it was already the runlevel event started the gettys and /etc/init.d/rc 2 in parallel
<jdong> psusi: not in Intrepid, they "fixed" that :D
<psusi> lol... why was it "broken"? ;)
<psusi> I thought it was like that because the gettys were the first and only startup jobs that had been converted to the upstart system from sysv
<jdong> that's why I said "fixed"
<jdong> the "problem" was if the system was fscking it would still allow you to log in.
<jdong> and also it would present the login before the hostname was set
<psusi> ohh, I see.... it now starts on stopped rc2... before it started on runlevel 2
<jdong> right
<jdong> IMO it should start on started rc2
<jdong> and use the service declearation
<jdong> with pre-start exec /etc/ ....
<jdong> I'd like to see rc2 as "started" when it finishes running.
<psusi> makes sense... that way it waits until after rcS but not on rc2
<jdong> not "starting" -> "stopped"
<siretart> jdong: I think I'm a bit biased with that question ;-)
<\sh> moins
<zerwas> moin
<pochu> hiya
 * directhex votes to declare it the weekend again -_-
<pochu> it's holiday here in Spain :)
<smaftoul> Hi all
<\sh> it's UDS time ,-)
<pochu> aren't they all still sleeping?
<\sh> looks like...-6h from europe, right?
<directhex> .ca is west coast isn't it?
<directhex> wait, no . there
<directhex> but my clock says -8 for LA
<\sh> ah west coast..yeah that's a bit more then -6h
<Nafallo> hehe. why not find out where they are first? ;-)
<Koon> -9h from CET.
<smaftoul> does anyone knows where apache sets it's ulimit from ?
<smaftoul> I set this export APACHE_ULIMIT_MAX_FILES="8192"
<smaftoul> in /etc/apache2/envvars
<smaftoul> I have a php file that contains <? system("ulimit -n"); ?> , and I het 1024
<smaftoul> do I need to modify /etc/security/limits.conf ?
<smaftoul> shouldn't this be documented ?
 * directhex stabs ulimit with a spork
<NCommander> hey directhex
<directhex> morning NCommander
<NCommander> directhex, I take it your not at UDS?
<NCommander> \sh, you here?
<slytherin> NCommander: Just FYI ... the freezes I was seeing on my ibook are almost completely gone after blacklisting rfkill_input module.
<\sh> NCommander: nope...:) I'm not at UDS :)
<Koon> The "not-at-UDS" club gathers :)
<slytherin> Koon: are you keeping watch on pkg-java checkins? some of the maven packages we were planning to work on have entered Debian NEW queue.
<Koon> slytherin: I looked at it a while ago... I'll check it again
<directhex> NCommander, not until someone starts paying for my travel costs, no. california is one of the few places which would cost me more than my mortgage payments to visit
<NCommander> o_o;
<ethan0> I'm so sorry for this easy question, but if I have a *_all.deb, I could extract the source and rebuild for ubuntu, right? _all have source included, right?
<directhex> ethan0, wrong.
<\sh> ethan0: nope..._all.deb just means, it's architecture independant
<directhex> ethan0, .deb is (usually) never source
<ethan0> It's a binary package then. Ungh. Sorry, I've been up for much too long.
<directhex> ethan0, a source package comes in the form of a diff.gz, orig.tar.gz, and .dsc
<ethan0> Yes, of course. Sorry.
 * ethan0 needs to sleep
<directhex> ethan0, an _all might be something like, say, a CLI .dll file
<directhex> actually, <Â£400 for last-minute flights. it was definitely >Â£1k when i looked previously
<directhex> still, too rich for my blood
<smaftoul> anyone here apache expert or packager ?
<mgdm> is there any chance/likelyhood of a backport of libdmtx to hardy?
<pochu> how many reverse dependencies does it have?
<mgdm> it doesn't appear to have very many, though I could be looking in the wrong place
<mgdm> as far as I can make out it only wants libpng and libtiff
<slytherin> mgdm: The package does not exist in hardy. Is that correct?
<mgdm> slytherin: yeah, it only seems to have appeared in Jaunty
<pochu> then you should be fine
<pochu> mgdm: report a bug at https://edge.launchpad.net/hardy-backports/+bugs
<mgdm> I'm just trying to build it just now
<mgdm> Ah, cool
<pochu> mgdm: of course building, installing and testing it will help the backporters to approve it ;)
<mgdm> I guessed it might :)
<mgdm> if the package is asking for debhelper >= 7, but Hardy only has 6, is that a major issue?
<directhex> yes! it causes baby jesus to cry
<sebner> mgdm: hardy backports have 7 but do you really need debhelper7?
<directhex> also, i thought dh7 was ni hardy-backports
* RainCT changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Masters of the Universe - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Jaunty: OPEN. | Grab a  merge: http://dad.dunnewind.net http://merges.ubuntu.com |  http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs
<mgdm> Sorry, I'm an utter newbie, just trying to build this Jaunty package on Hardy but I don't really know what I'm doing
<pochu> mgdm: enable hardy-backports to build it
* pochu changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Masters of the Universe - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Grab a  merge: http://dad.dunnewind.net http://merges.ubuntu.com |  http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs
<mgdm> pochu: OK, I'm trying it, thanks
<mgdm> Oh, I do have debhelper 7 already installed, but it's not in the pbuilder chroot, I suspect
<mgdm> (does that sound plausible?)
<directhex> it sounds plausible. pbuilders don't tend to have backports on by default
<pochu> in English, when you read something out loud, how do you read "e.g.", as "e g" or "exampli gratia" ?
<orly_owl> i say e g
<orly_owl> Also, ##english
<laga> i say "for example". but i'm not a native speaker
<phytopius> i would also say for example
<orly_owl> oh yes, you could say that too
<mgdm> I'd say "for example", too, and I'm a native speaker
<pochu> thanks you all :)
<directhex> i say "egg", but i'm a weirdo!
<pochu> lol
<directhex> nah, "for example" is correct
<orly_owl> Not on IRC you're not!
<pochu> and for i.e. you say "that is"?
<directhex> pochu, aye
<pochu> cool
 * pochu is studying for the toefl
<laga> i probably wouldn't understand it if someone said "exempla gratia" ;)
<laga> pochu: cool
 * mgdm works out what he's doing wrong
<pochu> mgdm: login into pbuilder and look at /etc/apt/sources.list
<pochu> if you don't have hardy-backports, that's what is wrong
<directhex> or, even better, use OTHERMIRROR and --override-config
<mgdm> yeah, I went for the OTHERMIRROR option in the end
<mgdm> I figured that was more sustainable in the long run than logging in and hacking manually
<mgdm> yay, it builds and runs \o/
<slytherin> geser: ping
<pmjdebruijn> I uploaded my package to REVU fifteen minutes ago, and it's still not visible on the website? what could be wrong?
<slytherin> pmjdebruijn: is this your first upload to revu?
<pmjdebruijn> yes
<slytherin> pmjdebruijn: did you login to revu prior to upload?
<pmjdebruijn> slytherin: oh crap... I thought I was still logged in from yesterday
<RainCT> pmjdebruijn: which package is it?
<pmjdebruijn> lensfun
<pmjdebruijn> dput says it's already uploaded
<slytherin> pmjdebruijn: wait, I meant if logged in even once. If you had then there seem to be some other problem
<slytherin> pmjdebruijn: what is the dput command you used?
<pmjdebruijn> dput revu lensfun_0.2.3-0ubuntu1_i386.changes
<slytherin> pmjdebruijn: you need to upload source.changes
<pmjdebruijn> oh silly me
 * pmjdebruijn goes back to the drawing board...
<geser> slytherin: pong
<slytherin> geser: do you have time to review a mail? Sending it to Debian java mailing list. I don't want my anger to get reflected strongly in the mail.
<ScottK-laptop> slytherin: What happened?
<slytherin> ScottK-laptop: source of library changed between two revisions (not upstream versions), apis missing/changed and hence jbossas4 won't build.
<ScottK-laptop> Lovely.
<slytherin> ScottK-laptop: and this went unnoticed as I am sure everyone assumed that source of svn5660+dak1 must be same as svn5660
<pmjdebruijn> ah, there it is
<pmjdebruijn> I already see I have some work to do
<geser> slytherin: sure
<pmjdebruijn> anybody else, willing to check it out? so I can correct several things at one...
<pmjdebruijn> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=lensfun
<slytherin> geser: http://paste.ubuntu.com/82457/
<mgdm> Oo, lensfun, been meaning to check that out
<geser> slytherin: wow, the .orig.tar.gz changed from over 700 kB to 70 kB with one upload?
<slytherin> geser: yup
<geser> slytherin: send the mail, it looks ok to me
<pmjdebruijn> mgdm: eh?
<pmjdebruijn> mgdm: lensfun by itself does nothing... it's a library... but it works wonders when ufraw is compiled with lensfun support
<pmjdebruijn> mgdm: I have my own repo at "deb http://ubuntu.pcode.nl/ubuntu intrepid exiv2 ufraw lensfun"
<pmjdebruijn> mgdm: use at own risk, these are development snapshots... the newer exiv2 may break digikam, etc...
<mgdm> pmjdebruijn: Yeah, I was meaning I wanted to try it out with UFRaw :) I shall check out your repo, though
<pmjdebruijn> mgdm: those aren't released version, just development snapshot... but it works for me
<pmjdebruijn> mgdm: what camera do you have?
<mgdm> I usually compile things like hugin, enblend, etc from scratch, I should learn how to package them (or find if someone else has done it already)
<mgdm> pmjdebruijn: 400D
<pmjdebruijn> mgdm: me too
<mgdm> cool
<pmjdebruijn> mgdm: I usually start by modifying existing packages...
<pmjdebruijn> I just removed all obvious/lintian errors from lensfun
<pmjdebruijn> I'd appreciate if somebody would have time to take a look at it sometime this week :)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<geser> Hi bddebian
<sebner> heya bddebian
<ScottK-laptop> bddebian: Heya.
<ScottK-laptop> bddebian: I noticed you've got at least one merge pending.  Are you planning on dealing with it or should be find someone else?
<bddebian> Hi geser, sebner ScottK-laptop
<bddebian> ScottK-laptop: Which package?
<ScottK-laptop> bddebian: pybliographer
<bddebian> Well I uploaded a better version to mentors long ago but I don't think it ever got picked up.
<bddebian> Didn't I upload that to Ubuntu?
<ScottK-laptop> bddebian: Dunno.  Just looking at MoM.  Maybe you could upload that to Debian and then we could sync ....
<bddebian> Aye, let me look at the status of pybliographer
<ScottK-laptop> Great.
<bddebian> ScottK-laptop: Hmm, weird, looks like 1.2.11 was uploaded to unstable in July.
<ScottK-laptop> Then can  we just sync it?
<bddebian> Hmm, he also put a 1.3.2-1 in Experimental.  The merge on the 1.2.11 looks very strange.  So a sync would probably be OK except that it might puke on the tarball. :(
<ScottK-laptop> bddebian: You going to sort it or should I?
<bddebian> ScottK-laptop: Please do, I don't even have a working Ubuntu install atm, my Ubuntu lappy died :(
<ScottK-laptop> OK.  Will do.
<bddebian> Thanks
<mok0> bddebian: Hey, you said gimme a break, here it is: <BR\> :-)
<bddebian> mok0: :)
<bddebian> mok0: I honestly am not trying to ridicule you.  I apologize if it came off that way.
<mok0> bddebian: no offense taken; I just wanted you & others to focus on real arguments
<mok0> bddebian: anyways, if you've seen my latest mail, I offer to take over maintenance of gtk+ 1.2
<bddebian> mok0: Yeah, nice :)
<mok0> bddebian: but I can't see that it's been orphaned
<StevenK> Personally, I think we should remove GTK 1.2
<bddebian> StevenK: That has been the arguement :)
<mok0> StevenK: ah, you guys...
<bddebian> mok0: You are correct, I don't think gtk+1.2 itself is technically orphaned
<mok0> bddebian: ... but it's unmaintained?
<bddebian> mok0: Of course it hasn't seen a maintainer upload since 2004 :)
<mok0> bddebian: okay... so what should I do then?
<bddebian> Let me check MIA on that DD
<mok0> bddebian: thx
<bddebian> Heh, he retired over a year ago
<mok0> StevenK: We've had the discussion on d-d. I dislike the idea of retiring libraries just because they are not needed by the distribution itself. There are users who need the libraries to compile their own programs
<bddebian> Then they can get it from upstream..
 * bddebian hides
<mok0> bddebian: if there _is_ an upstream, yes
<mok0> bddebian: gtkglarea for example, upstream is MIA
<mok0> all links are dead
<mok0> those sources live only in the archives of the various distros
<mok0> But I know for a fact that it's still being used
<ScottK-laptop> And since mok0 has volunteered to do the work, people should let him do it ....
 * mok0 hugs ScottK-laptop
<bddebian> mok0: Exactly my point but I'm checking with the MIA folks to make sure I'm reading that mia-query correctly
<mok0> bddebian: I am grateful if you would figure it out
<bddebian> ScottK-laptop: Agreed but he is talking about 1 package with a butload of unmmaintained/orphaned rdepends
<ScottK-laptop> Right.  The rpendends are a different issue.
<ScottK-laptop> Or however you spell that ...
<bddebian> mok0: OK, I'm going to file an O: on gtk+1.2 then you can just take over maintainance, closing the O:
<bddebian> Well techinically you should ITA: first.
<mok0> bddebian: ok, will do... of course I need to persuade a DD to upload it :-)
<bddebian> I can do that
<mok0> bddebian: great, thanks
<ScottK-laptop> mok0: Oddly enough you're talking to one ...
<ScottK-laptop> So start persuading ...
<mok0> ScottK. I think he already went soft on me :-)
<bddebian> heh
<bddebian> mok0: Did you see my question about the soname of gtkglarea also?  I have it ready to upload but wasn't sure if you wanted to leave the soname mismatch?
<mok0> bddebian: I didn't see you comment, but I can guess... it is the lintian that complains about the name, right?
<mok0> bddebian: it is a choice of changing the package names or the library names; I'd rather not do either
<bddebian> mok0: Well the package name really should change but if you are trying to get this in for Lenny, I agree
<mok0> bddebian: if you think it's ok to change the package names, I will do that
<bddebian> mok0: It is but it might break any reverse dependencies.
<mok0> ... and make a transitional package too
<mok0> :)
<mok0> exactly
<bddebian> mok0: Are you trying to get it in time for Lenny?  If so, I'd say let's leave it for now.
<mok0> bddebian: to be honest I thought lenny was frozen already
<bddebian> mok0: It is but if you are fixing bugs/etc we can ask for an exception
<mok0> bddebian: The upload closes 4 bugs + the ITA bug
<mok0> bddebian: but they are all minor/trivial
<mok0> bddebian: like, putting a .o file in /usr/lib :-)
<bddebian> Aye, I'll upload, then ask for an exception, thanks
<mok0> bddebian: great
<mok0> bddebian: then I can ask for an Ubuntu sync; right now there's a dumb merge
 * mok0 asserts getting rid of a merge is better than sex
<laga> error: assertion failed
<bddebian> +1
<mok0> laga: heh
<ScottK> siretart: Are you @ UDS this time?
<siretart> ScottK: no, not this time. :(
<siretart> ScottK: are you going to attend?
<ScottK> siretart: No.  The timing was poor.  I'm hoping to find someone who is there who can hunt down how to listen in remotely.
<rjune> heh
<bddebian> mok0: OK, gtkglarea uploaded and the orphan bug for gtk+1.2 is 508182 .  I'm probably going to get an ass-kicking for that one by the way there were shitloads of uploaders including the GNOME team :(
<rjune> I want to find someone who is there as well.
<rjune> I have a URL I need to get to ogra
<mok0> bddebian: uh-uh
<ScottK-laptop> bddebian: Then one of them can adopt it now if they want.
<mok0> bddebian: perhaps I should hold off a while before doing work on the package
<ScottK> Grumble.  From the relevant wiki page, "Mf you cannot attend in person, you can still listen to the conferences or take part in them remotely. More information will be made available close to the conference date."
 * ScottK wonders how close ...
<hefe_bia> I know you're all busy, but I'd be so happy if someone could take a look at Tomboy-Blogposter in REVU, a small plugin for posting tomboy notes to your blog. It's been advocated multiple times before (by mok0 and sikon) and now the issues that were only fixable by upstream are fixed, too... It's my first package... http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=tomboy-blogposter
 * ScottK-laptop tries communication via planet ....
 * mok0 volunteers to take a look at tomboy-blogposter later today (although he thinks mono is evil)
<hefe_bia> mok0: thank you!
 * hefe_bia still does not understand why mono without WinForms is bad.
 * hefe_bia likes python better, though ;)
<ScottK-laptop> hefe_bia: The problem is that there is no knowing what patent claims may exist against it.  The best term I could use is 'risky'.
<sharms> ScottK-laptop: the question is though, which languages are you fully aware of which patent claims exist against them?
<sharms> or can you ever be aware
<ScottK-laptop> sharms: Fully, none.  But given the origin of c#, it's clearly more risky.
<hefe_bia> ScottK-laptop: ah, I see. I thought that that was cleared somehow now. Too bad - First I was so sceptic about it (coming from C++) but I grew to like C# as a language.
<sebner> ScottK-laptop: it's in fedora and debian so ubuntu shouldn't be scared :P
<ScottK-laptop> sebner: In patents, prior use and even prior art don't help much.  There's really no way to know if Microsoft is just biding their time or they've changed their tune.
<mok0> hefe_bia: Imagine a situation where most of the important apps in Ubuntu are mono apps; and Microsoft decides it's time to make their patent claims...
<ScottK-laptop> Mind you, having been involved in the development of open source technology that later showed up in Microsoft patent claims, I may be more sensititve than most.
 * hyperair waits for directhex to start his rant on C# FUD
<mok0> ScottK, .... once the patent is awarded, there's nothing you can do??
<sharms> I would say as vague as patents are though, I would be just as worried about python, ruby etc
<sharms> their patents would not just apply to C#
<mok0> sharms: they'd be laughed out of court for that
<sharms> thats why they are not in court right now? :)
<mok0> sharms: but Mono is a direct re-implementation of parts of .NET
<mok0> sharms: even Miguel agrees on that
<sharms> I agree there too, I am just saying that if they go full out and decide to shut down mono apps, a lot of other things would be at risk too
<mok0> sharms: ... and he is now employed by Novell, who have made a deal with Microsoft
<sebner> ScottK-laptop: sure but since the Open Invention Network protects mono I'm fine
<hefe_bia> mok0: I understand. As I said I thought the patent issues had somehow been solved. (Maybe I was a victim of propaganda...) Though I see the problem if patents apply.
<mok0> hefe_bia: Nothings ever solved with big corporations
<ScottK-laptop> hefe_bia: The problem isn't that it's solved, but that we just can't know.
<mok0> hefe_bia: just look at how the SCO trial is going...
<hefe_bia> Anyways I wouldn't start a new development with mono for Linux.
<sharms> The mono website says 'Jim miller from microsoft': 'Basically a grant is given to anyone who want to implement those components for free and for any purpose. '
<sharms> http://www.mono-project.com/FAQ:_Licensing
<mok0> sharms: oh, on the mono website? That's completely worthless as documentation in court
<ScottK-laptop> sharms: So MS fires the guy and claims he was speaking out of turn.
<ScottK-laptop> Meaningless.
<sharms> it's a fun discussion, because there is not a correct answer until the courts decide, so we really get nowhere :)
<hefe_bia> But can they claim patents on parts that were standardized? Or is the problem that the implementation may accidently violate patents?
<mok0> sharms: right
<ScottK-laptop> hefe_bia: Standards have no affect on patents.
<mok0> One of the problems is that Microsoft have never told what patents they say Linux is violating
<broonie> Or what they mean by Linux for that matter.
<mok0> ... so they keep everyone in a state of uncertainty
<mok0> broonie: yes
<mok0> Like most others, when they say "Linux" they mean the whole working OS
<mok0> + apps
<mgdm> is adding a Build-Depend on pkg-config a good/bad/stupid thing to do?
<pochu> mgdm: good, if your package need it
 * hefe_bia thinks he has to read up on the topic... Thanks for the insight.
<mgdm> it seems to
<hyperair> if configure.ac contains PKG_CHECK_MODULES then adding pkg-config to build-dep is fine i think
<sebner> ScottK-laptop: http://www2.apebox.org/wordpress/linux/51/ :)
<mgdm> I won't say I'm getting the hang of it, but I've nearly got the package I asked for the backport for updated to a new upstream release
<mgdm> (libdmtx)
<pochu> hmm
<pochu> mgdm: backports are backported from the package in the development version, so you shouldn't need to update anything...
<mgdm> the package in Jaunty isn't the latest upstream, it's the latest in Debian
<pochu> ah, then you are updating the package for jaunty, right?
<mgdm> I did this for myself as an exercise, to see if I can work out how to package things - if it isn't useful then at least I've learned something
<mgdm> if I can submit it to Jaunty then that'd be fine by me too :)
<pochu> mgdm: what's the latest upstream release?
<mgdm> 0.6.0
<mgdm> versus 0.5.2 that's in Jaunty
<ScottK-laptop> sebner: I agree that a lot of the anti-mono crowd is over the top, but as the guy says, the combination of Microsoft's history of bad behaviour, the Novell deal, and the broken US patent system leave some room for reasonable concern.
<NCommander> mgdm, if you finish the updated package, post it to Launchpad, and then ping me, and I'll review for upload
<sebner> ScottK-laptop: sure but life is a game and I won't hide myself in the cellar for the rest of my life
<mgdm> NCommander: great, thanks. I'll need to try it out on my laptop, it has my GPG keys
<mgdm> NCommander: this is the first one I'll have done though, so expect some WTFery :)
<NCommander> Well, I'm at UDS
<NCommander> so my time to review time is somewhat high ATM
<ScottK-laptop> mgdm: You can always just make a new gpg key, add it to your LP profile, and then upload ...
<mgdm> understandable
<mgdm> ScottK-laptop: I could... but I'm leaving for home in < 8 minutes :)
<ScottK-laptop> Ah.  No point then.
<pochu> mgdm: actually you don't need your gpg key to attach the diff.gz to a launchpad bug ;)
<mgdm> Ah...
<mgdm> there isn't a bug for a new upstream version, shoudl I file one?
<pochu> yup
<mgdm> ok
<mgdm> I need to add something else to the changelog first
<NCommander> mgdm, remember to subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<mgdm> Done
<mgdm> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hardy-backports/+bug/306280
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 306280 in hardy-backports "Update libdmtx to 0.6.0" [Undecided,New]
<NCommander> Oh, this is a backport?
<NCommander> Backports are different
<NCommander> THe updated version MUST be in jaunty
<mgdm> Oh, I botched that
<NCommander> and as a general rule
<NCommander> We don't backport libraries
<NCommander> I'll look at it later
<mgdm> Feck, I filed it in the wrong place
<mgdm> if I file it against "ubuntu" rather than hardy-backports will that be more correct?
<pochu> yes. you can add an Ubuntu task to the same bug report
<sharms> ScottK: looks like Mike posted a blog entry same time you did
<mgdm> I need to leave just now, if anyone has any hints for putting that bug in the right project, ping me...
<ScottK> sharms: Mike's blog entry doesn't have any information that's actually useful for remote participation.  I responded to his.
<sharms> gotcha
<ScottK> But icecast.ubuntu.com is starting to have some useful information.
<pochu> mgdm: I've added an Ubuntu task for you (click on "Also affects distribution", then Ubuntu and libdmtx)
<mgdm> pochu: ah, great, thanks - I wasn't sure if that was right
<mgdm> does the .diff.gz look sensible, if you have any time to look?
<pochu> not really right now
<mgdm> pochu, and everyone: thanks for all your help :)
<crimsun> someone poke Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> crimsun: poke back
<meoblast001> hi
<meoblast001> whats the package name for mozilla-xpcom
<Hobbsee> xulrunner or similar, probably
<meoblast001> i installed that
<jdong> xulrunner-1.9-dev?
<jdong> xulrunner-1.9-dev: /usr/lib/xulrunner-devel-1.9.0.3/xpcom-config.h
<meoblast001> jdong: how would i tell wxMozilla that it has a different name
<jdong> I have no idea what you mean?
<meoblast001> this is what it tells me http://rafb.net/p/PE42Ul79.html
<meoblast001> and i already have xulrunner-1.9-dev installed
<jdong> a search and replace from mozilla-xpcom to xulrunner-xpcom should do it.
<jdong> libxul-dev: /usr/lib/pkgconfig/xulrunner-xpcom.pc
<jdong> that's the pkg-config file you want to address that error
<jdong> note libxul-dev
<meoblast001> ok im not familiar with pkg-config
<meoblast001> so what am i doing?
<jdong> installing libxul-dev
<meoblast001> rephase please
<meoblast001> ok
<meoblast001> then...
<jdong> then in your project find-and-replace everything that says "mozilla-xpcom" to "xulrunner-xpcom"
<meoblast001> thats the configure script that has the error
<meoblast001> i got this working before
<meoblast001> well... it worked before
<meoblast001> dont know why it wont work now
<jdong> Ubuntu hasn't shipped mozilla-xpcom for several releases?
<meoblast001> then where do i get it?
<jdong> you don't get it.
<jdong> as I said, you reconfigure your *project* to buidl against XULRUNNER-xpcom
<meoblast001> what is it included in?
<jdong> I don't know how I can make this any clearer....
<meoblast001> this isnt my project.... this is wxMozilla
<meoblast001> i dont know what would need to be changed in it cuz i didnt write it
<meoblast001> i think i need to tell the configure script its real name
<meoblast001> is that what its sayingi n that pastebin i gave you
<jdong> you need to patch wxmozilla's buildsystem everywhere you see MOZILLA-xpcom change it to XULRUNNER-xpcom
<jdong> this is the 4th time I've said the exact same thing.
<meoblast001> ok
<jdong> you should NOT be trying to find mozilla-xpcom.
<meoblast001> now its clear to me
<meoblast001> somehow i got it to work in the past
<meoblast001> jdong, what about mozilla-nspr?
<meoblast001> ok
<meoblast001> found it
<meoblast001> i've about had it with this stupid package naming scheme
<meoblast001> jdong, changing the configure script made errors in them makefile
#ubuntu-motu 2008-12-09
<bmm> I tried to archive my package again, but got the same Error. Could somebody try to archive http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=ccbuild
<bmm> Errors I get (and got) are: http://pastebin.com/m207e57e and http://pastebin.com/m26f8da70
<bmm> Good luck to the developers!
<bddebian> mok0: For some reason any of my mails directly to you keep bouncing
<lifeless> http://www.gnunux.info/rss2irc/rss2irc.py-17.09.05
<Tetracomm> Hello.
<Tetracomm> What is the status of the Ubuntu shutdown bug?
<jdong> THE ubuntu shutdown bug...
<emgent> hehe
<coppro> what is THE Ubuntu shutdown BUG?
<Tetracomm> lol.
<coppro> (serious question btw)
<jdong> and how DARE you not have that TACOM status report now?
<jdong> COMSEPAC will be reporting here any minute now
<Tetracomm> I see a cursor on the screen when I press the shut down button and it doesn't do anything.
<jdong> is this bug reported?
<Tetracomm> A while after press the button, rather.
<Elbrus> can a package be triggered to rebuild on a single platform?
<Elbrus> winff failed to build, because lazarus was not yet build up-to-date on sparc.
<NCommander> Elbrus, build record active
<NCommander> it should build sometime soon
<Elbrus> ok
<Elbrus> thanks
 * Elbrus should put the version dependency on lazarus instead of fpc
<lifeless> ajmitch: ping
<ajmitch> lifeless: pong
<pmjdebruijn> good morning
<pmjdebruijn> I've packaged a library for automatic (digital) camera lens distortion correction... called lensfun... anybody care to take a look: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=lensfun
<white> anyone using iceweasel 3 and kgtk?
<white> i am wondering, why my file picker doesn't show my storage devices, but apparently it works under normal debian lenny :/
<mgdm> can you add more than one --othermirror option to pbuilder?
<mgdm> Oh, ignore me
<mgdm> what does "$PACKAGE does not have a source override entry" mean, as a response from dput?
<handschuh> mgdm: the upload is not successful?
<mgdm> handschuh: yeah, I'm just trying to send a package to my local repo, and it fails with that error, which has surprisingly low results on Google :)
<handschuh> mgdm: can you pastebin your source.changes?
<mgdm> I can, though it's not actually mine, as such - I'm compiling a package originally designed for Intrepid on Hardy
<mgdm> http://pastebin.com/m11c7f519, with apologies to pmjdebruijn
<handschuh> mgdm: have you done something like this before?
<mgdm> You'd be as well to consider me to be an utter newbie - I'm doing this as a learning exercise
<handschuh> mgdm: and you are trying to get this into your ppa?
<mgdm> Not a PPA, just a local package archive on this machien
<mgdm> err, machine
<mgdm> the archive is using mini-dinstall
<handschuh> mgdm: maybe you should use a ppa (so that we can exclude solcal configuration errors)
<mgdm> ok
<joaopinto> mgdm, is that error return during the dput operation, the upload fails ?
<mgdm> joaopinto: yeah
<mgdm> using "dput -u local lensfun*.changes"
<joaopinto> erm
<joaopinto> you need to use _source.changes
<joaopinto> not the other binary changes files
<mgdm> ah...
<joaopinto> using a PPA would not make a difference, dput is just an upload tool, he is not aware of whatever build process you have in place
<mgdm> There is actually only one changes file (lensfun_0.2.3-0ubuntu1_source.changes)
<joaopinto> mgdm, that was generated with debuild -S -sa ?
<mgdm> yep
<Laney> mini-dinstall doesn't do building
<Laney> so you actually do need to use the binary changes
<joaopinto> Laney, and how does dput know he is going to use mini-dinstall during an upload ?
<mgdm> it's in ~/.dput.cf
<joaopinto> ah :P
<Laney> joaopinto: It doesn't, which is why the user needs to know to give dput the binary changes
<mgdm> I was using pbuilder to build the binaries
<joaopinto> ok, so there is something on the dput.cf describing that a binary upload is required
<mgdm> but they've magically wandered off, rebuilding now :)
<pmjdebruijn> mgdm: eh?
<mgdm> pmjdebruijn: I've been abusing one of your packages as practice... ignore me if you want :)
<pmjdebruijn> oh
<pmjdebruijn> mgdm: I have recompiled stuff for Intrepid ready to go
<pmjdebruijn> mgdm: doesn't lensfun build for you then?
<mgdm> lensfun builds fine, even on Hardy
<mgdm> it's the apt archive bit I'm having bother with
<mgdm> (this isn't yet an intrepid box)
<pmjdebruijn> mgdm: you need to modify ufraw for lensfun... --with-lensfun...
<mgdm> that was going to be next if I got this bit working
<pmjdebruijn> mgdm: I have examples sources on ubuntu.pcode.nl/ubuntu/
<mgdm> that's where I borrowed this one from
<pmjdebruijn> mgdm: for lensfun? anyway the sources on revu are "better"
<mgdm> I'll give those a try then
<pmjdebruijn> mgdm: once lensfun gets accepted... I'll look into getting ufraw lensfun enabled in jaunty
<mgdm> that would be awesome
<mgdm> I'd be interested in helping with that kind of thing, and enblend, hugin, etc
<pmjdebruijn> mgdm: those are already packaged, no?
<mgdm> yes, but if they need a hand...
<pmjdebruijn> oh?
 * Laney eyes LP
<pmjdebruijn> mgdm: I actually hope Udi will release a UFRaw 0.14.2 soon... 0.14.1 doesn't support the Canon 50D and Nikon D90
<pmjdebruijn> which are very popular
<mgdm> Do they have new variations on their file formats?
<pmjdebruijn> mgdm: I guess
<pmjdebruijn> mgdm: I don't really care, it just needs to work
<pmjdebruijn> mgdm: I think it had to do with pixel ordering
<pmjdebruijn> mgdm: so you could open files, but the blue and green colors would be switched or something like that
<mgdm> Ah
<pmjdebruijn> mgdm: probably trivial changes...
<mgdm> here's hoping
<pmjdebruijn> but I'll need some reviews... (hint hint http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=lensfun )
<mgdm> I'm going to take my laptop in this afternoon and upgrade it to Intrepid so I can use your packages
<pmjdebruijn> mgdm: good :)
<mgdm> I'm still going to try to "backport" them to Hardy, of course, for fun :)
<pmjdebruijn> mgdm: just take to sources and rebuild... should be as easy as that
<mgdm> it rebuilds fine, though I think I had to change something in debian/changelog to get it to build for the right disto
<pmjdebruijn> mgdm: just add an entry above mine...
<mgdm> that's what I did
<mgdm> I'm just having trouble making the apt repo so that I can use pbuilder to make ufraw too
<pmjdebruijn> mgdm: oh, I don't do everything in pbuilder
<pmjdebruijn> mgdm: especially if it's for the distro I'm currently running
<pmjdebruijn> mgdm: it's not as clean
<pmjdebruijn> but for personal use it works
<pmjdebruijn> mgdm: http://ubuntu.pcode.nl/debrepo.sh ?
<pmjdebruijn> mgdm: that a quick and dirty way to build repos
<mgdm> cool
<mgdm> I'll give that a try
 * pmjdebruijn needs to read up on that as well
<slytherin> any python experts here?
 * POX points slytherin to #debian-python @ OFTC
<slytherin> POX: My question is not that specific to Debian/Ubuntu python.
<POX> then to #python :P
<POX> but even there nobody will probably answer if you don't ask the question :P
<POX> (i.e. not the "can I ask a question?" question)
<slytherin> :-)
<mok0> slangasek: ping
<liw> mok0, it's 6:15 in the morning where he is, so he may be asleep
<mok0> liw: ah, yes. I would :-)
<mok0> liw: anyways I figured out what I wanted to ask
<bddebian> Heya gang
<ScottK-laptop> Heya bddebian.
<bddebian> Hi ScottK-laptop
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser
<logari81> hi, I have already read the /UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages stuff and as far as I understood, in order to get my application: http://sourceforge.net/projects/pdfshuffler in universe I just have to file a bug requesting its packaging
<logari81> As I have already packaged it here https://launchpad.net/~logari81/+archive I suppose it will help to include this link in the bug report
<azeem> if you have already packaged it, and want to maintain it in Ubuntu, you can upload it to REVU for reviewing and sponsoring
<azeem> probably you should/must still file a needs-packaging bug,  not sure
 * logari81 is reading about REVU
<RainCT> azeem: yep, needs-packaging is still requires, unless they decided otherwise at UDS :P
<RainCT> *required
<lifeless> RainCT: we haven't
<lifeless> RainCT: I mean, it still seems entirely redundant to me, but $shrug
<jpds> RainCT: Go read the gobby notes we did on it.
<DktrKranz> siretart: re debian 508276, I have already reported it as debian 507973 (together with patch). These can be merged.
<ubottu> Debian bug 508276 in boxbackup "Re: [ubuntu/jaunty] boxbackup 0.11~rc2-4ubuntu1 (Accepted)" [Unknown,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/508276
<ubottu> Debian bug 507973 in boxbackup "boxbackup: Please build-depend on docbook-xml" [Minor,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/507973
<RainCT> jpds: yeh, I've seen them
<RainCT> but forgot what I read :P
<jpds> Pity.
<logari81> thus my summary:
<logari81> 1. I file a needs-packaging bug
<logari81> 2. I alter my changelog to point to the LP#
<logari81> 3. I register to REVU
<logari81> 4. I upload my package to REVU just as I did for my ppa
<logari81> 5. I wait for 2 motus to advocate
<logari81> is that right?
<RainCT> jpds: how is it there at Google?
<RainCT> logari81: Yes. Registering with REVU is basically just logging in, though ;)
<jpds> RainCT: Ah, great. Loads of free food and stuff.
<logari81> oh nice
<RainCT> \o/ - evil school and not having a laptop :/  (until christmas :))
<jpds> RainCT: Best part is meeting everyone tho.
 * RainCT goes to fill the gobby docs with spam :P
<lifeless> NCommander: I have a revu issue
<lifeless> NCommander: I don't seem able to advocate
<jpds> lifeless: Look for a "Merge" button near the top of the homepage.
<lifeless> jpds: yes?
<RainCT> lifeless: I've just given you reviewer rights (a few minutes ago)
<NCommander> lifeless, have you merged your REVU accounts?
<lifeless> NCommander: no, don't recall the email I used, nor my old password
<lifeless> RainCT: ah thanks!
<NCommander> lifeless, fair enough
<RainCT> lifeless: wgrant asked in #ubuntuwire. I told him he should tell you to do the "i wanna revu privs" dance and record it in exchange ^^
<lifeless> RainCT: :>
<ScottK> jdong: I'm looking at: http://security-tracker.debian.net/tracker/status/release/stable-backports and thinking something like that would be nice ....
<leonel> scottK where can we get the data ??
<ScottK> leonel: Dunno.
<paulproteus> If I'm already a Debian Maintainer, what process should I go through to become a MOTU?
<paulproteus> I currently do all my Ubuntu contributions through my work in Debian, since it flows into Ubuntu.  But I'm interested in becoming a MOTU so I can join the Ubuntu Backports team.
<pmjdebruijn> paulproteus: I'm not a MOTU, but it might to useful, to maybe supply a link to your work for Debian?
<paulproteus> http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=asheesh@asheesh.org
<pochu> paulproteus: do you need to be a MOTU to be a backporter?
<paulproteus> To be able to upload directly to the ubuntu-backports repository, apparently yes.
<paulproteus> I'm reading through https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports currently.
<paulproteus> Most of what I want to backport are my own packages from Debian.
<jdong> ScottK: that would be great
<paulproteus> But also some desktop apps too, from time to time.
<ScottK> paulproteus: Becoming a MOTU is both about technical capability and trust from the community.  Youre Debian experience certainly helps.  The best way is to jump right in and find some useful work to do.
<pmjdebruijn> in a .install file, for a library, do I need to include both /usr/lib and /usr/lib64 ?
<jdong> irssi FAIL. What good is netsplit detection when I get 4 separate Netsplit over messages?
<jdong> 5.
<kees> heya paulproteus
<paulproteus> Hey kees!
<paulproteus> You at UDS?
<Hobbsee> paulproteus: (he is)
<paulproteus> Cool (-:
<paulproteus> ScottK, Cool, thanks.
<paulproteus> I'm in San Francisco, WAY up north from you guys. (-:
<pochu> paulproteus: way east from me :(
<kees> paulproteus: I am, yeah :)
<fabrice_sp> Hi. Somebody with some spare time to review dvdstyler (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=dvdstyler)? Thanks!
<mahesh> hello everybody
<mahesh> i want to join motu team
<mahesh> help
<Pici> mahesh: Patience... UDS is this week so this channel isn't as active as it normally is.
<jdong> and the rest of us are crying over final exams....
<jdong> I hate school
<laga> high school?
<leonel> and some wishing being  in cancun ..
<jdong> college. undergrade
<jdong> err, undergrad.
<jdong> the former is probably true too given my test scores.
<mahesh> pici>> ok
 * Laney herds some cats
<meoblast001> hi
<meoblast001> i have a compiling error which i believe may be a result of the packaging of xulrunner
<meoblast001> http://rafb.net/p/QYqyQd25.html
<meoblast001> all i did to that was change instances in the configure script of mozilla-nspr and mozilla-xpcom to xulrunner-nspr and xulrunner-xpcom
<ScottK> meoblast001: For mozilla specific packaging questions you might have more luck in #ubuntu-mozillateam
<meoblast001> k
<Laney> Someone give me something to do.
<Laney> I haven't uploaded anything in a while, and feel guilty
<jdong> Laney: look at the diff between Intrepid and Jaunty VLC
<Laney> just look at it?
<jdong> Laney: i'm considering bringing 0.9.8a to Intrepid{-updates,-proposed} as a SRU + security  fix combo
<jdong> I want to know if there's anything outrageously intrusively changed to make that a stupid idea
<Laney>     *   0.9.4-1ubuntu3 to 0.9.8a-1ubuntu1  (2.6 MiB)
 * Laney dies
<jdong> well a lot of what will probably be autoconf cruft
<crimsun> yay for filterdiff(1)
<Laney> ah yes, so it is
<Laney> vlc's changelogs are the worst
<jdong> Laney: their fanbase isn't much better.
<Laney> How do you mean?
<jdong> Laney: idealistically I really just want to track upstream releases and say "take it and like it or ELSE"
<jdong> (for VLC, that is)
<Laney> You mean in *-updates?
<jdong> Laney: correct
<Laney> mm, I can see why the shady security history makes that attractive
<jdong> Laney: and bug history in general; I'd rather just track the 0.9.x branch
<jdong> Laney: I mean what's for certain is our current "stay 0.9.4 and nobody wants to touch it with a 10-foot pole" approach is lose.
<Laney> So what we really want is a better upstream release approach
<jdong> I propose tracking 0.9.x in -updates and if someone wants to backport security fixes in -security then go for it
<jdong> well, in a way yes.
<jdong> upstream doesn't do TOO badly with security updates in their 0.9 branch in general
<Laney> I'm thinking like GNOME (but probably without time-based releases)
<jdong> lol we can wish, can't we?
<Laney> pipe dreams...
<jdong> but VLC is an end user app used primarily by media geeks
<jdong> most of the users want the latest version anyway
<jdong> and it's pretty nontrivial to build oneself to the latest version too
<Laney> PPA!
<Laney> or backports I guess
<jdong> yeah backports is absolutely one possible solution for this
<Laney> anyway, I'd say go for it in -updates, from looking at NEWS. The "new feature" isn't really that much of a feature.
<jdong> that tends to be the case in VLC's 0.0.x releases
<Laney> But I see it's on depwait..
<bugfixes> hello all
<RainCT> hi
<bugfixes> :) too late night at UTC?
<bugfixes> is there any senior MOTU member here?
<meoblast001> why dont i have static gtk libraries?
<RAOF> meoblast001: Why would you expect static gtk libraries?
<meoblast001> nvm... problem found
<meoblast001> i was using --prefix=/usr/local so it couldnt ifnd anything
<crimsun> bugfixes: "senior MOTU member"? :-)
<bugfixes> crimsum: i wanna ask some question about MOTU and revu
<ScottK-laptop> !ask | bugfixes
<ubottu> bugfixes: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line, so others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<bugfixes> sorry! :)
<ScottK-laptop> No trouble, just ask already if you have a question.
<bugfixes> i would like to include a new package to motu, here is the url http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=tcpproxy
<ScottK-laptop> So you'd like someone to review your package?
<bugfixes> yes!
<Laney> mok0: Am I right in thinking you took all ubuntu changes in gtkglarea?
<bugfixes> this is my first try! want to package some other package after i know the whole process!
<bugfixes> !ask
<ubottu> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line, so others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<bugfixes> ï»¿ScottK-laptop: yes i would like someone to review my package
<Laney> mok0: Never mind, looks like you did. I'll request the sync
<Laney> after testing ofc
<Laney> huats: !!! I have been looking for you
<huats> hey Laney !
<huats> I know why you are looking for me
<huats> currently I am at the UDS
<Laney> :P
<Laney> I just wanted to hassle you
<Laney> oh!
<huats> I'll tackle the package right now (I mean today/tomorrow)
<Laney> OK
<huats> and I'll ping directly the sponsors ;)
<Laney> I'll let you off
<huats> no pb
<Laney> if
<huats> thanks
<Laney> IF!
<huats> and don't worry I won't let you don't :)
<Laney> you buy james_w a beer from me
<Laney> for being a great sponsor
<Laney> muhahah
<huats> I will :)
<Laney> \o/
<Laney> didrocks: Yo, mind if I check out if goocanvas can be synced back into Jaunty? Thanks for reporting the bug btw
<Laney> Crap, requestsync went crazy
<Laney> reported the sync bug 5 times
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 5 in rosetta "Plone Placeless Translation Service metadata missing from po files" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/5
<mok0> Laney: yes I did take care of them; there should be no reason to maintain a special ubuntu version anymore
#ubuntu-motu 2008-12-10
<Laney> mok0: Cool. bug #306698 awaits your ack then
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 306698 in gtkglarea "Please sync gtkglarea 1.2.3-4 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/306698
<Laney> I mean bug #306694
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 306694 in gtkglarea "Please sync gtkglarea 1.2.3-4 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/306694
<Laney> silly requestsync
<mok0> Laney: unfortunately, -4 FTBFS,  there is a trivial error that is fixed in the upcoming version
<Laney> It didn't ftbfs for me
<mok0> Laney: you probably built in on i386
<Laney> No, amd64
<mok0> Laney: if works using debuild
<Laney> I used pbuilder
<mok0> Laney: hmm, well it fails using sbuild on anything but i386 -- it worked for me too, initially, but it fails on Debians buildds
<Laney> mmm ok
 * Laney tries with sbuild
<mok0> Laney: I am waiting for -5 to appear, I don't know what the status of it is... bddebian said he uploaded it
<Laney> mok0: Ah, it fails there
<mok0> Laney: feisty little problem
<mok0> Laney: it's a simple fix in rules
<StevenK> mok0: For Feisty?
<mok0> StevenK: nono, I meant the problem is "feisty" :-)
<quentusrex> who builds phpmyadmin for ubuntu???
<quentusrex> I'd like to take a look at their debian/* package folder...
<mok0> quentusrex: what do you mean "who"
<mok0> quentusrex: apt-get source phpmyadmin
<quentusrex> where would that put the soruce?
<quentusrex> source*
<mok0> quentusrex: in a subdir in cwd
<quentusrex> thanks
<mok0> quentusrex: cd /tmp and try it
<quentusrex> unable to find the source package for it..
<Hobbsee> got universe sources in your /etc/apt/sources.list?
<quentusrex> nope...
<quentusrex> just the deb, not the deb-src
<mok0> quentusrex: just duplicate that line, change deb to deb-src
<mok0> quentusrex: then do apt-get update
<quentusrex> ok, thanks for the help so far mok0
<quentusrex> I'm trying to build a web gui for an application and I want to package it similiar to how phpmyadmin is packaged.
<mok0> quentusrex: np I'm bored anyway :-)
<quentusrex> :)
<quentusrex> this is awesome. thanks mok0 it's exactly what I needed.
<quentusrex> :)
<quentusrex> I'm still very new to packaging, but I've got 2 different pieces of software that aren't packaged yet.
<mok0> quentusrex: you know the dget command?
<quentusrex> dget? nope. I know dput.
<mok0> quentusrex: anywhere you can find a URL to a .dsc file, you can get the source package using "dget -ux <url-to-dsc>
<quentusrex> aah, cool.
<quentusrex> I probably wont' remember that when I need it, but that's good to know.
<quentusrex> also, mok0 what are your views on GPL? and on MPL? or BSD?
<quentusrex> I'm trying to gather opinions on the different licenses.
<mok0> quentusrex: Oh, I'm a GPL fanboy
<quentusrex> y?
<mok0> quentusrex: it gives you the max protection as an author
<mok0> quentusrex: from being ripped off
<quentusrex23> What's the difference between GPL 3 and GPL 2?
<samd> hi
<RAOF> Hello.
<RAOF> quentusrex23: Any number of things, most famously anti-DRM language.  Why?
<samd> i just made a gui made in python  for an already existing command line application, i would like to publish it, where should i start? sorry if im little bit new to this thing
<RAOF> If you don't have any other hosting, making a launchpad project for it and uploading it there is a good start.
<RAOF> In fact, even if you _do_ have other hosting, making a launchpad project and uploading it there is a good start :)
<samd> alright, i already have a launchpad account, after uploading it, what do you think about posting in some forums, to publish it?
<LimCore> hi. I made a trivial patch that allows user to avoid data corruption in situation when he is on low power UPS and he needs to quickly shut down box (without stupid confirmations etc) - just press power button x2 -  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/285141    can it be applied/used?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 285141 in ubuntu "logout box + no way to kill computer = data corruption" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<LimCore> its intended for 8.04
<Hobbsee> 8.04.  why?
<LimCore> I didnt test it yet on 8.10  But indeed, I will
<Hobbsee> well, 9.04 is the development release, so you'd probably need to target it for that
<LimCore> mhm I perhaps will also
<LimCore> but all users inclding 8.04 etc will benefit. This *actually* lead me to data lost, more then once
<Hobbsee> darn data loss.
<Hobbsee> Apparently hitting the power button once does shut down the computer.
<LimCore> works on 8.10 as well
<crimsun> Hobbsee: :-)
<LimCore> Hobbsee: it does not
<Hobbsee> does here.
<Hobbsee> fortunately, firefox does well at restoring sessions
<LimCore> on 8.10 if I press power button, then system shutdowns after 60 seconds which is too long
<LimCore> and if I am in gnome. in kde afair not at all
<Hobbsee> when the power button is pressed:  shutdown
<Hobbsee> rather than 'ask me'
<Hobbsee> problem solved.
<crimsun> yeah, g-p-m setting
<LimCore> I want to be asked
<LimCore> but I want also emergency way to tall computer that I really need to shut it down NOW
<Hobbsee> you want to be asked, and you want to be able to shut it down, no questions asked.
<Hobbsee> pull the power plug, then?  ;)
<TheMuso> Kinda like the default gpm setting of not suspending or hibernating when closing the laptop lid.
<TheMuso> You would expect after a fresh install, when you close the laptop lid, the laptop would suspend...
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: you do?
<LimCore> TheMuso: I hope that it will NOT, since this is not fully working
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Well thats what hasw happened to me with fresh installs.
<TheMuso> LimCore: You have a point.
<TheMuso> I have working suspend/resume however.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: i don't remember mine doing that, but maybe i changed it
<LimCore> by default it does not suspend on 8.10
<TheMuso> This is what I mean.
<LimCore> this is a good thing for the above reason - this is highly experimental and unstabl
<crimsun> LimCore: that's not a big surprise, really.  2.6.27 is abysmal for suspend+resume on many, many models.
<LimCore> I loose sound after hibernation (so do number of users)
<LimCore> plus I use encrypted swap.
<LimCore> I dont think it would work at all
 * Hobbsee muttesr that there's no good solution for everyone.
<crimsun> LimCore: and the lost sound after hibernation should be resolved shortly (I've already done the SRU work)
<LimCore> but can we finish my topic first as well :)
<Hobbsee> like, for those who want people to be able to shut down, even when the machine is locked, and those who want the machine being locked to actually lock it.
<TheMuso> crimsun: Uploaded pulse for jaunty with pmutils hook.
<TheMuso> And I'm heading offline.
<crimsun> TheMuso: danke
<LimCore> I want both  1) normally be nicelly asked    2) in EMERGENCY (can not use monitor and/or keyboard) be able to tell PC to shut down NOW.    My patch does it. And no other thing does that
<coppro> I could go for such a patch
<Hobbsee> how does it tell it's in an emergency, and not just a person randomly pressing buttons?
<Hobbsee> or something bumping against the keyboard by accident?
<coppro> but usually, aren't you so frozen that you need to do a hard shutdown?
<coppro> and actually, if I press the shutdown button, I don't think I get prompted
<Hobbsee> this sounds like the case of nokia phones, which say "lets allow emergency calls even when the phone is locked"
<LimCore> Hobbsee: no. If the machine is locked, then it only makes sense to allow to still shut it down if one have phisical access to PC power button (my patche does that too).  Why? because, if he has phisical access, then if he is "bad guy" then he can anyway shut it down (hole the power key)   and if he is a normal user then he should be able
<coppro> wait, that's my power button... maybe confusing with something else
<coppro> stupid laptops
 * Hobbsee --> out
<LimCore> Hobbsee: pressong twice the POWER button (the one on PC case, not the one on keyboard)  and twice in 10 seconds
<Hobbsee> LimCore: how do you propose to eliminate accidental keypresses, or people who don't understand what it does?
<Hobbsee> well, in the case of laptops, that's probably not so hard if you have stuff on it
<coppro> I don't get prompted...
<LimCore> as above?  if someone is pressing PC case power button randomly then he is anyway 3 seconds away from hard-reseting it or hard-poweroff
<Hobbsee> or something's bumping against it.
<Hobbsee> at least make it a difficult to hit key combo
<coppro> Hobbsee: he's talking about the power case button
<coppro> normally one does not bump such a thing accidentally
<LimCore> Hobbsee: well, twice in 10 seconds.   Plus, consider that if no desktop (manager) is running, then just _1_ key press will do shutdown -h now.  So my patch both makes it easier to shut down when needed (as I want)  AND makes it harder to by accident shut down
<coppro> since it is almost always recessed into the case
<Hobbsee> coppro: on a laptop?
<coppro> Hobbsee: on a laptop, it's usually either recessed or a slide switch, in my experience
<LimCore> the POWER button.    not the sleep/power-off/suspend  buttons on some keyboards (inc. some laptops)
<LimCore> the one that if you hold for 4 seconds will anyway hard-shutdown always
<LimCore> the one connected directly to bios/something
<coppro> yeah, but if I press that, I get a soft shutdown, no prompt
<LimCore> coppro: if you press the real POWER button, then by default you get prompt (if WM runnig) or shutdown if not.    With my patch, you can to press it x2 (better if no monitor/keyboard)  and you HAVE to press it x2 not x1 (so, more safe if no WM)
<coppro> LimCore: not for me
<coppro> watch
<LimCore> strange. this is not the default behaviour
<LimCore> anyone can confirm what is the default?  what happens if you press your POWER button
<LimCore>  /whois copp
<coppro> I rest my case
<LimCore> coppro: try clean install, the default /really/ is as I described.   So, you can not shut down cleanly ubuntu with just power button, and this leads to hard shutdwon == data lost as I explained
<coppro> LimCore: could be a KDE thing
<coppro> also, missed the data loss thing
<coppro> shutting down and all
<LimCore> coppro: on clean 8.10, gnome, power button (the pc one) == prompt
<LimCore> same on 8.04, kde, except no prompt
<LimCore> coppro: you are not banned on #ubuntu right? :P  you can do a quick poll for me.  Or just ask some friends (if such polling is not wellcomed)
<LjL> polling on #ubuntu is not very welcome
 * jdong points out he will be banned in #ubuntu shortly afterwards.
<LimCore> ok, can any of you guys also press the power button to help us quickly confirm?
<LjL> jdong: that "he" is ambiguous. i am, as a matter of fact, going to ban you shortly... but how were you to know that?
<jdong> haven't we had this nonsensical discussion 3 months ago?
<jdong> LjL: one too many innuendos? :)
<jtechidna> my computer immediately shuts down when I press my power button. I am confident enough that I will not press it
<jdong> I think that is the case in KDE
<jtechidna> yeah, KDE here too
<jdong> but not in GNOME hwen g-p-m responds correctly.
<jdong> I regularly use the power button to trigger the logout menu
<jdong> that's GNOME.
<LimCore> right
<jtechidna> though come to think about it powerdevil might have this feature now in KDE 4.2...
<jdong> it has the acpi event hook necessary?
<jdong> $older_ubuntu_version had this capability for KDE too
<LimCore> ok so my patch then sorts this out, benefits   1) just 1 power button does not shutdown without confirmation (safe)   and  2) x2 press ALWAYS shut down (better)
<jdong> I strongly disagree with #2.
<jdong> (1) I don't want two power button preses to shut down my machine
<jdong> (2) Many times ACPI generates spurious events
<jtechidna> actually
<jdong> we've already said the last time we had this discussion we do NOT want a magical forced shutdown button sequence.
<jtechidna> powerdevil allows you to configure what you do when you press the power button
<jtechidna> interesting
<LimCore> jdong: you are speaking for entire ubuntu community or for who?
<jdong> LimCore: you are speaking for the entire Ubuntu community or for whom?
<LimCore> I am presenting objective arguments that are universal, like this one:
<jdong> if you don't believe me feel free to open it up on devel-discuss.
<LimCore> jdong: so how users can otherwise shut down the PC if monitor and/or keyboard can not be used
<jdong> guarantee you that you will NOT get any consensus for a dual-press forced shutdown.
<jdong> the potential for a disabled input device is *NOT* an excuse to work in a hidden poweroff sequence to every other input device.
<jdong> what the hell is next? A magical thumb drive that reboots when you insert it?
<jdong> #ubuntu-motu is not for pushing controversial new ideas as if it were a bugfix. Please use a discussion mailing list for that.
<jdong> I believe we've been down this road 3-4 months ago, too.
<LimCore> this is not every other input device,  but this is the input device that allows to shutdown PCs sine before 1980's, and that in nowdays ubuntu allows a shutdown too so it seems logical
<jdong> *puts channel on ignore*
<jdong> this is ridiculous.
<effie_jayx> hey all, can anyone tellme in what package I could find the Sys::Mmap perl module?
<LimCore> effie_jayx: if you know file name of that lib, you could use apt-file search filename (install apt-file and  apt-file update  first)
<effie_jayx> LimCore,  I am trying to create a package for Zoneminder 1.24 and it just complains about it using the Sys::Mmap
<effie_jayx> module for perl
<effie_jayx> I get no file name
<jdong> I don't think we have Sysm::Mmap
<effie_jayx> thanks
<jdong> we have a lot of other things that think they're Mmap.pm
<jdong> you can probably tell at this point my knowledge of Perl is restricted to stupid commandline tricks
<effie_jayx> jdong,  well I am merely trying to satisfy a dependency for the package to build :S
<effie_jayx> not a big perlmonger myself
<ScottK> For Sys::Mmap the package name would be libsys-mmap-perl if we have it.
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  there is one for ruby, not for perl. I found a way for it not tu use Sys::Mmap
<miik> dud, put XBMC center in repo
<RAOF> I win!  Who wants to do a copyright-less review of nouveau-kernel-source?
<crimsun> how much $incentive is involved?
<RAOF> You get a shiny fast featureful 2d driver for your nvidia card.
<crimsun> hmm.
<LaserJock> shiny *and* fast?! woah there ;-)
<rjune_> which nvidia cards?
<RAOF> Approximately all of them.
<crimsun> sure, I'll take a look in a sec.  Just doing SRU work atm.
<RAOF> It should appear on revu.
<RAOF> Ahem.  Allow me to upload the right version!
<didrocks> Laney: I can do it this evening at home (let's say in 12 hours), it must not be long :)
<darius12> I am interested to attempt packaging eclipse 3.4.1 for ubuntu
<darius12> It seems like quite a big task
<darius12> what would be the best way to recruit for help?
<pmjdebruijn> darius12: do you have any packaging experience...
<pmjdebruijn> darius12: eclipse really isn't the best way to start
<darius12> well, I haven't any "official" packaging experience. But I have my own ppa and have been building linux from scratch - based distros for a few years
<darius12> plus it seems nobody else is going to do it (at least soon) and I believe even a medium quality package will be helpful to lots of people
<pochu> darius12: see bug 123064, there were some people working on it there. Also you can ask for help/guidance on #debian-java on OFTC
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 123064 in eclipse "Upgrade to Eclipse 3.4.1" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/123064
<darius12> yes I 've seen both this bug (and its 8 duplicates) as well as the Debian bug #432350
<ubottu> Debian bug 432350 in eclipse "eclipse: upgrade to new stable release 3.3" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/432350
<darius12> (it also extends to 3.4)
<darius12> so I 'm going to email those people first I guess
<pochu> wow @ Paris party
<logari81> hi, could anyone take a look here:
<logari81> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=pdfshuffler
<logari81> it is my first upload in revu, and I don't have much experience with packaging either
<logari81> I would be thankful for any help
<emgent> \sh: ping
<pmjdebruijn> logari81: check your lintian file...
<logari81> pmjdebruijn: missing-python-build-dependency--> I can't understand which is the missing dependency, in ppa it could be built without warnings/errors
<logari81> also: should the lintian file be warning-free? or just error-free?
<Laney> Programs that can run with any version of Python must begin with #!/usr/bin/python or #!/usr/bin/env python (the former is preferred). They must also specify a dependency on python, with a versioned dependency if necessary.
<Laney> logari81: You should get it completely clean
<pmjdebruijn> logari81: I'm not entirely sure... lintian also mentions a certainty
<logari81> Laney: that means I should add ${python:Depends} in Build-Depends list?
<Laney> logari81: No, python:Depends goes in normal Depends:. You should build-depend on python or pythonX.Y if you need a specific version.
<Laney> http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy
<logari81> Laney: that is exactly the guide I have followed, but in the section "Using python-central" there is no reference for python in Build-Depends
<logari81> also in the following example https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Python there is no such entry either, is there any newer/better example to compare?
<hefe_bia> logari81: Left you a comment. This should get rid of the lintian errors and I have mentioned a few other things that might be of concern.
<logari81> hefe_bia: thanks a lot
<Laney> logari81: It might help to look at some other packages which use python-central
<Laney> apt-cache rdepends python-central
<hefe_bia> logari81: However I'm also quite new to packaging (especially python). So there might be errors...
<logari81> Laney, thanks I ll check it out, I ll also try to apply the suggestions of hefe_bia and come back
<rjune_> how does one verify  the dev environment really is Jaunty?
<hefe_bia> rjune_: It's Jaunty if you installed Jaunty or upgraded to it ;) Or are you talking about setting up a chroot or something?
<hefe_bia> rjune_: But I usually develop on the stable version and use pbuilder to build for the development version - and then check the installation / runtime behavior in a VM of the development version (Jaunty).
<hefe_bia> Of course that only works if you don't need new features or libraries from the dev version during development.
<rjune_> hefe_bia: setting up a chroot
<rjune_> I installed via pbuilder, then followed the upgrade instructions for the chroot
<rjune_> I just want to verify it
<hefe_bia> rjune_: Hmm. I don't know. I always use pbuilder-dist and create a new base .tgz for each development version. You could maybe log into your pbuilder environment and check the sources.list.
<rjune_> hefe_bia: ok. thanks
<mok0> bddebian: ping
<bddebian> mok0: Uh oh, what'd I do this time?
<mok0> bddebian: heh
<mok0> bddebian: I just wondered what's become of gltglarea... I can't see release -5 appearing
<bddebian> Hmm, odd
<mok0> bddebian: did you upload it?
<mok0> bddebian: perhaps it clashed with my attempts?
<bddebian> Hmm, it shouldn't but I see I didn't get an ACCEPT message back
<mok0> bddebian: Last time I got one too, and it was pretty quick
<bddebian> Weird, they aren't sitting in incoming
<mok0> bddebian: you have a successful *.upload file?
<bddebian> No, that's the funny part
<mok0> bddebian: I have to run off to a seminar, bbl!
<miik> dude, put XBMC in repo now!!!
<miik> hurry up guys
<lfaraone> hi, does cdbs automagically handle configuration files?
<mok0> lfaraone: what configuration files?
<lfaraone> mok0: those installed by a package. if I ship new config files, does cdbs automagically generate the script that asks the user if they want to replace their existing ones?
<hyperair> has anyone heard of libsigx++?
<lfaraone>  Hi, is it safe to assume that when a user installs a PAM module that they want it enabled for all SSH logins?
<rjune> no
<jdong> probably not.
<jdong> especially when ti comes to PAM err on the side of caution.
<lfaraone> jdong: Should I add it as a debconf prompt?
<lfaraone> jdong: and is there a place where debconf is well-documented for us noobs?
<jdong> lfaraone: I think that's a good idea
<jdong> default to no but debconf prompt
<lfaraone> jdong: ok, how exactly would I do that?
<jdong> I have no idea :)
<jdong> never used debconf before
 * lfaraone panics.
<Laney> It's not too bad lfaraone
<lfaraone> Laney: Oh?>
<Laney> I used http://www.fifi.org/doc/debconf-doc/tutorial.html
<hyperair> what does 0c2a mean?
<Laney> Something to do with some transition
<Laney> hyperair: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/08/19/%23ubuntu-motu.html I asked then
<hyperair> Laney: where can i find more details about it? is there another combination? like 1c2a, or perhaps 0c1a?
<Laney> hyperair: I don't know :(
<hyperair> damn
<Laney> I didn't dig any deeper
<hyperair> i'm thinking of packaging sigx++
<hyperair> but if i can't figure out these tags i can't
<azeem> if you package something new, you don't need them
<azeem> they were used when the C++ ABI changed and all C++ libs had to be recompiled
<hyperair> azeem: eh? then what's it called?
<azeem> hyperair: as usual
<hyperair> when does the C++ ABI change?
<azeem> when it changes
<Laney> Man I bet that transition took a long time
<hyperair> specifically which package makes it change?
<azeem> hyperair: g++?
<Laney> or a lot of effort
<Laney> or both
<azeem> not sure when the last change was, mabye 4.1->4.2
<azeem> or 4.0->4.1
<hyperair> oh
<hyperair> azeem: so if i'm packaging a new library, what do i call the package with the runtime libs?
<azeem> 17:49 < azeem> hyperair: as usual
<hyperair> and what's the usual
<azeem> see the library packaging guide
<james_w> DktrKranz: hi, I saw you uploaded boxbackup, is half the package still failing to actually build?
<lfaraone> slangasek: care to look over the upstream source of a PAM module I'm packaging? I'm not qualified to audit the source, and james_w tells me you're a PAM expert.
<DktrKranz> james_w: only ARM, actually
<jpds> lfaraone: I think he's at a session at UDS at the moment.
<DktrKranz> other ports are FULLYBUILT
<james_w> DktrKranz: DebugMemLeakFinder.cpp:543: error: '::free' has not been declared
<james_w> make[2]: *** [../../debug/lib/common/DebugMemLeakFinder.o] Error 1
<james_w> it doesn't fail the build though
<lfaraone> jpds: ah, kk.
<DktrKranz> james_w: ah... interesting... it fails internally but build process doesn't fail itself
<DktrKranz> james_w: looking at debian buildds report, it has the same issue
<james_w> interesting is one word for it
<crimsun> superm1: anything I should be aware of for grub2 (particularly whether you've tested Debian experimental's snapshot from 2008-12-01)?
<crimsun> (hmm, raof would be useful here, too)
<quadrispro> RainCT: hi!
<RainCT> hi
<logari81> hi, I ve just uploaded my corrections here http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=pdfshuffler
<logari81> and got this message:
<logari81> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/?archive=4208
<quadrispro> RainCT: about http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=4207 -> as you can see (http://paste.ubuntu.com/83619/), man page seems ok, I don't understand the lintian error, can you give me help?
<pochu> quadrispro: .SH "NAME"
<pochu> \&\fBInstallation Report Generator\fR \- A small tool to collect installation data for support purposes
<pochu> that line is wrong
<pochu> what's the binary name?
<quadrispro> pochu: ahh! binary's name is installation-report-generator!
<pochu> then it should be:
<pochu> \&\fBinstallation-report-generator\fR \- A small tool to collect installation data for support purposes
<quadrispro> ah-ah! thank you very much pochu!
<pochu> quadrispro: test with lexgrog
<pochu> quadrispro: e.g. "lexgrog manpage.1"
<quadrispro> yes, sure
<quadrispro> thanks!
<pochu> it should be able to read the WHATIS section
<pochu> quadrispro: no problem :)
<slangasek> lfaraone: url?
<quadrispro> RainCT: now installation-report-generator should be ok (really! :))
<RainCT> quadrispro: cool, I'll have a look at it when I've a moment :)
<lfaraone> slangasek: http://code.google.com/p/ppp-pam
<slangasek> lfaraone: aha, that one.  hrm, there was an ITP for this in Debian already, wasn't there?
<lfaraone> slangasek: Yes, I filed it :)
 * slangasek chuckles
<lfaraone> slangasek: I've got package fever, this is my second package this month (the other is pending ftpmaster
<lfaraone> approval)
<slangasek> lfaraone: there also seem to be two ITPs for this under different names: 448404, and 506112
 * directhex is waiting also on debian NEW
<hefe_bia> mok0: Hi! Does your offer to have a look at tomboy-blogposter still stand? ;)
<lfaraone> slangasek: Oh? Who filed the other?
<slangasek> lfaraone: see the provided bug # :)
<hefe_bia> Of course everybody else is invited to have a look to: tomboy-blogposter is a small plugin to post notes from tomboy to your blog. It's been advocated before by mok0 and sikon, only a few little issues where left. (See http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=tomboy-blogposter)
<slangasek> lfaraone: so you're looking for an upstream audit, here?
<lfaraone> slangasek: An audit of upstream, yes.
<lfaraone> slangasek: turns out there is another dupe: 451029
<slangasek> yes, though that one has already been merged
<lfaraone> slangasek: so which person should I ask?
<lfaraone> (if they are still doing work on it)
<slangasek> both? :)
<slangasek> follow up to the bug and point out that there are two ITPs under different names
 * directhex advocates things which make tomboy more featureful
<directhex> hefe_bia, if it's not been written for the mono 2.0 transition, you get a severe poking, mmkay?
 * directhex looks
<lfaraone> slangasek: kk.
<hefe_bia> directhex: since the new upstream release, gmcs2 is used explicitly. Last time I checked it built fine under Jaunty. (Dec 6) Should I expect more problems?
<directhex> commentes.
<directhex> commented.
<hefe_bia> directhex: ah, I see.
<lfaraone> Hi, I've got a project which has a licence with a clause very close to mozilla's branding clause. Can it be in universe?
<lfaraone> ( http://www.alice.org/index.php?page=license
<directhex> every bugger needs to write their own license, don't they Â¬_Â¬
<lfaraone> directhex: esp. universities. we're having the same trouble with scratch, which is MIT's edu-software. (same category as alice, too)
<hefe_bia> directhex: So if I bump the version number for mono-devel and change the build file to use csc, I'll be fine?
<lfaraone> Hm... that's sponsored by the NSF w/ public funds. I'm not sure if that licence is compatable with the grant...
 * lfaraone sends an angry email.
<directhex> hefe_bia, i'm only checking mono compliance. poke people like mok0 for the other bits (though if they're happy there...)
<hefe_bia> directhex: ok, I meant only regarding mono compliance.
<hefe_bia> So best thing would be to tell upstream to use csc, too.
<directhex> hefe_bia, only debian & ubuntu have a "csc", so upstream needs to think carefully
<hefe_bia> directhex: I see.
<directhex> hefe_bia, in apps with autofoo, you can use ./configure NAME_OF_COMPILER_VAR=/usr/bin/csc
<directhex> hefe_bia, e.g. ./configure GMCS=/usr/bin/csc
<directhex> hefe_bia, though this one has no config
<lfaraone> directhex: oh lord: http://www.i2p2.de/licenses
<hefe_bia> directhex: the packages uses a CC variable in the Makefile. I can just override it in rules.
<directhex> hefe_bia, well, okay then!
<directhex> though "CC" is wrong, it's not a C compiler ;)
<hefe_bia> directhex: right ;) I'll pass that along...
<hyperair> is anyone familiar with the scons build system?
<azeem> hehe, poor guy
<hyperair> huh?
<TheMuso> i/c
<jdong> would anyone cry if I were to propose shoving VLC in a not-very-restrictive apparmor profile?
<jdong> at least intuitively I don't think it has any excuse to be executing anything, right? :)
<Nafallo> jdong: should give more installations of mplayer. go ahead! ;-)
<jdong> :P
<Laney> Wow, this place is quiet when UDS is going on
 * Laney strokes MOTUs
 * StevenK glares at Laney
<dholbach> hi Laney
 * Laney withers away
<Laney> hi dholbach
<Laney> enjoying your very own session?
<dholbach> Laney: my very own session?
<Laney> effective horsemen ;)
<dholbach> well... we've a bunch of people here and it's about the Baconator and Mr Castro as well :)
<Laney> mmm
<Laney> the audio feeds are too unstable
#ubuntu-motu 2008-12-11
<rjune_> hefe_bia__: cat /etc/lsb-release will clue you in to the version in the chroot
<nellery> emgent: is UTU manually updated?
<emgent> nellery: auto-updated.
<coppro> is there any way to see what packages were installed recently?
<emgent> check every 10 min
<coppro> no, to my computer
<coppro> my compiz skydome broke and I have no clue what broke it; I need to see what packages have been updated
<emgent> coppro: please use #ubuntu
<nellery> emgent: okay, thanks
<emgent> nellery: np.
<coppro> ok
<coppro> also, the dhcp3 packages are in main and universe, yet display an "All rights reserved" message. This doesn't seem right.
<artfwo> hello! guys, i have a question on debhelper compability: I want to use some v7 features, like dh_lintian - but will the package build on ubuntu 8.04 with those?
<RAOF> artfwo: Yes; debhelper has been backported.
<RAOF> artfwo: And the only way for new packages to get to Hardy is through backports, so...
<artfwo> then PPA build system includes v7 as well?
<LaserJock> artfwo: I don't think so
<RAOF> Good question.  I don't think the PPAs do build against backports.-
<artfwo> sadly, but true. just checked the build logs - it only uses -updates and -security
<jdong> no they don't build against backports :)
<jdong> I would have a lot more people screaming at me if it did
<coppro> why?
<LaserJock> jdong: for sure
<LaserJock> 1) building against things that not a everybody is likely to have is not a good idea
<LaserJock> 2) -backports has potential to have real changes that would affect packages, different cmake and Qt4 version for instance
<coppro> hmm... ah
<artfwo> okay, I guess I'll stick with manual installation of lintian_overrides then
<artfwo> thanks everyone for your help!
<coppro> so, anyone know why a main/universe package is displaying an "all rights reserved" message?
<LaserJock> where is it displaying it?
<artfwo> yes, there is quite a number of such notices - in libicu for instance
<ajmitch> :0:> less /usr/share/common-licenses/BSD
<ajmitch> Copyright (c) The Regents of the University of California.
<ajmitch> All rights reserved.
<coppro> that's the license though
<coppro> not the program
<coppro> (any dhcp3 program in this case)
<coppro> just run it and it says "Copyright 2004-2008 Internet Systems Consortium"
<coppro> "All rights reserved"
<artfwo> I have another question on sourcepkg compability: Lintian on Intrepid gives the warning "out-of-date-standards-version 3.7.3 (current is 3.8.0)" - is it okay to update the policy to 3.8.0 if I'm going to build the package on Hardy as well?
<ajmitch> why is the "All rights reserved" an issue?
<ajmitch> from what I can see, it used to be required or at least expected in order to assert copyright
<ajmitch> anyway, I have to run
<LaserJock> it's no longer required according to wikipedia, but is still seen regularly
<coppro> all rights are clearly not reserved; there's a license
<coppro> that allows me to distribute it
<LaserJock> but I think they are saying they are reserving their rights to say how it is licensed, not sure about that though
<LaserJock> i.e. the default is full copyright with all rights reserved, *then* you poke holes in it with the license
<coppro> well, I wouldn't expect any program to say that I can't copy it if it's in main
<LaserJock> coppro: I don't think it *is* saying that
<coppro> the program, as run, provides no exception
<coppro> which at least implies that I can't copy it
<ScottK-laptop> artfwo: First, don't update the standards version unless you actually update the package to meet that standard.  Generally if it's a package we get from Debian, you shouldn't change it.
<ScottK-laptop> There's really no point in updating it for Hardy in any case.
<ScottK-laptop> Often you can just ignore that warning.
<LaserJock> coppro: it's MIT licensed
<artfwo> ScottK-laptop: okay, thanks
<coppro> LaserJock: the program implies the exact opposite
<ScottK-laptop> coppro: The way I think we are supposed to interpret "All Rights Reserved" is All rights not explicitly given away.
<ScottK-laptop> It's any implicit rights.  Not the ones enumerated.
<coppro> ok, fair enough. Then it should enumerate the rights when run, if it says All rights reserved
<ScottK-laptop> There is no implicit right to say you can't run it (except AGPL explicitly says you need to meet certain conditions).
<coppro> to run, yes
<coppro> but I think, personally, that the text is misleading
<LaserJock> it's maybe not the clearest, but I don't think it's necessarily wrong
<ScottK-laptop> coppro: I'm not a fan of it, I agree it's confusing, but it's quite common.  It used to be required (it's not anymore) and the practice lingers through inertia and folklore.
<coppro> well, removing it or adding another line about the license is a simple patch
<coppro> but part of it is in main, so I guess it's up to canonical
<LaserJock> coppro: just because it's in Main doesn't mean Canonical has to do it
<LaserJock> it means a Core Dev needs to sponsor a patch
<coppro> ok.
<ScottK-laptop> Note that both the people you are discussing this with are core-dev and neither works for Canonical.
<StevenK> Both of those can be fixed. :-P
 * coppro is not very familiar with the system, then
<LaserJock> coppro: that's ok, we're all here to learn
<coppro> some more than others, clearly
<coppro> oh right, I have an important question
<coppro> is a copyright notice really required in every source file if the package is distributed with such a notice?
<LaserJock> usually there is a "header" for each file
<coppro> yeah, the package I'm packaging doesn't have such a thing
<LaserJock> a quite common occurance is for somebody to say license the program as GPL and forget the a couple files are actually Academic-only or something
<coppro> none of the files have any such license
<LaserJock> so having it in every file helps us to make sure the license is correct
<ScottK-laptop> coppro: My experience is that as long as there is a LICENSE or COPYING file in the source tarball that has the full license in it, the archive admins will hold their nose and accept it.  It MUST have the full license in it though and it should be in every file.
<coppro> there's a file license.terms with an MIT license in it; I've been told by some sources that isn't enough
<tonyyarusso> Erm, do any of you geniouses know where I could get help on hostname resolution with avahi?  I seem to be stumping everyone I find (or just confusing them).
<ScottK-laptop> It's supposed to just magically work.
<tonyyarusso> well, it works, just not the way I want it to
<jmarsden> Does anything at http://avahi.org/wiki/Avah4users help?
<tonyyarusso> jmarsden: perhaps - hadn't seen that yet
<jmarsden> A quick Google found it for me... hopefulyl it will help.
<\sh> so...it's 6am in germany...and we are finished with our nightshift...time for a beer...
<quentusrex> Can someone help me debug something?
<quentusrex> ls
<jmarsden> quentusrex: ls works, it does not generally need debugging?
<quentusrex> haha,
<quentusrex> no. I'm trying to install munin with mysql plugin. it's a default plugin in the munin-node package.
<quentusrex> but it can't connect to mysql... :(
<quentusrex> but I can easily connect manually...
<jmarsden> quentusrex: Then most likely it is looking in the wrong place (IP address and port) or using the wrong username/pw for auth.
<quentusrex> I've got the user and password correct I'm really sure...
<quentusrex> my $MYSQLADMIN = $ENV{mysqladmin} || "mysqladmin";
<quentusrex> my $COMMAND    =      "$MYSQLADMIN $ENV{mysqlopts} extended-status";
<quentusrex> that is part of the mysql plugin (in perl) that is creating the command
<quentusrex> but I run the command manually:
<quentusrex> /usr/bin/mysqladmin -u debian-sys-maint -p********* status
<quentusrex> and it works.
<jmarsden> So what is the env var mysqlopts being set to?
<quentusrex> it's on a test lan mysql server so here:
<quentusrex> [mysql*]
<quentusrex> user root
<quentusrex> env.mysqladmin /usr/bin/mysqladmin
<quentusrex> env.mysqlopts -u debian-sys-maint -pk3f4nIlErsLzJq8B
<jmarsden> OK.  If you change the my $COMMAND line to say  my $COMMAND    =      "echo $MYSQLADMIN $ENV{mysqlopts} extended-status";
<jmarsden> does it do what you expect?
<quentusrex> it prints 'yes'
<quentusrex> Here is the contents of $COMMAND: mysqladmin  extended-statusn
<jmarsden> quentusrex: That's not what I would have expected...!  I'll try munin out here, let me install it and see what I find...
<quentusrex> it's missing the entire opts part.
<jmarsden> That would explain the inability to work...
<quentusrex> yup, $ENV{mysqlopts} is blank...
<quentusrex> so.... I don't know how to 'fix' that...
<quentusrex> alright, found the problem.
<quentusrex> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=408452
<ubottu> Debian bug 408452 in munin-node "munin-node: mysql plugins don't get any data" [Normal,Open]
<pmjdebruijn> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=lensfun if somebody has a little time to look at it?
<hyperair> i'm trying to package libsigx, but it doesn't seem to have a SONAME. what should i do?
<pmjdebruijn> hyperair: why do you need the SONAME?
<hyperair> pmjdebruijn: because i'm packaging a library?
<pmjdebruijn> hyperair: I ment why do you need it explicitly?
<hyperair> hmm i don't?
<hyperair> @_@
<hyperair> the lib file is /usr/lib/libsigx-2.0.so
<pmjdebruijn> hyperair: does build fail? does lintian complain?
<hyperair> i'm trying to build
<hyperair> lintian..
<hyperair> wait
<pmjdebruijn> what error do you get while building?
<hyperair> W: sigx source: substvar-source-version-is-deprecated libsigx-dev
<pmjdebruijn> that's unrelated
<hyperair> sorry, i meant the build isn't complete
<hyperair> okay, so what does that lintian warning mean?
<pmjdebruijn> hyperair: lintian explains it, if you read further
<hyperair> gimme a moment
<hyperair> aah
<hyperair> i see
<hyperair> thanks
<hyperair> =D
<elmargol> someone knows if there is an open bug about linux not supporting fat32 (properly)?
<hyperair> what's wrong with linux's fat32 support?
<elmargol> I had to copy some files from a pendrive on to my home directory. and the whole system stops working
<hyperair> define stops working
<elmargol> I removed the stick and after 1-2 minutes the system works again...
<hyperair> eh?
<elmargol> hyperair: Well the panel stops working, the windows are frozen
<hyperair> hmm
<hyperair> pastebin your dmesg log
<hyperair> it's probably an issue that's not related to vfat
<elmargol> have to see if I can find it ... this was 2 days ago
<elmargol> I had to reboot to vista in order to copy the data on my disk :(
<elmargol> http://paste.ubuntu.com/83931/
<hyperair> elmargol: there's something wrong with your pendrive
<hyperair> get it checked
<elmargol> it is not my pendrive and it works 100% on windows
<hyperair> try formatting it again
<hyperair> it said Buffer I/O error
<hyperair> that means there's a hardware error with your pendrive
<elmargol> NOT my pendrive. and I don't have it here. The bug is that it works on windows
<hyperair> i'm very sure that if format it in ntfs, it'll have the same issue
<hyperair> and in any other file system
<pmjdebruijn> elmargol: seriously... high changes are you pendrive is broken somehow...
<elmargol> pmjdebruijn: ok explain to my why it works perfect on windows
<pmjdebruijn> elmargol: explain to me why I have a hunderd pendrives which work great with Ubuntu
<pmjdebruijn> elmargol: maarja, the flash memory itself is fine, the the usb controller in the stick is quasi-broken
<pmjdebruijn> as in broken by design
<pmjdebruijn> but everything gets tested with Windows (even if it's broken), when it works with Windows it gets a seal of approval, and goes to market
<elmargol> thats no excuse
<pmjdebruijn> elmargol: huh?
<elmargol> a) you unmount the drive and give an error message (and don't freeze the system)
<pmjdebruijn> elmargol: I have a hunderd pendrives that just work
<pmjdebruijn> elmargol: well that's weird indeed
<elmargol> or b) you have some debug mode where it tries to work
<elmargol> You can't just leave a user with a frozen system and say well your hardware is shit go away and die
<pmjdebruijn> elmargol: it should crash linux, that's true
<pmjdebruijn> elmargol: shouldn't
<pmjdebruijn> elmargol: but the hardware is probably the root cause
<pmjdebruijn> elmargol: linux' fault is just handling is badly
<elmargol> well i have this bugs not only on pendrives... if you mount a cifs share and loose your wlan the system hangs too
<elmargol> this is a common issue on linux
<pmjdebruijn> elmargol: cifs never has been very reliable
<pmjdebruijn> elmargol: that why gnome has gnome-vfs... which is not kernel side, and thus can't crash your kernel
<elmargol> the kernel does not crash... the applications just wait... and wait and wait...
<pmjdebruijn> elmargol: the question is, this usb pendrive issue, did you test with other ubuntu releases
<elmargol> and after 20-30 seconds it times out
<pmjdebruijn> elmargol: that seems like sane behaviour...
<elmargol> the timeout is way to long
<pmjdebruijn> elmargol: well file a bug on gnome-vfs
<elmargol> pmjdebruijn: I'm using kde
<pmjdebruijn> elmargol: then file a bug on the kde counterpart...
<elmargol> and this is not kde or gnome specific if you cd to the path it hangs too
<pmjdebruijn> elmargol: I don't know how KDE does it mounting
<pmjdebruijn> elmargol: what path?
<pmjdebruijn> elmargol: how did you mount it?
<elmargol> pmjdebruijn: i just plug it in... i guess hal mounts it?
<pmjdebruijn> elmargol: how does the mount command list the mount
<pmjdebruijn> elmargol: huh?
<pmjdebruijn> elmargol: hal mounts cifs?
<elmargol> pmjdebruijn: ahh you mean cifs.. mom
<pmjdebruijn> elmargol: anyway, this probably isn't the proper channel for that
<pmjdebruijn> elmargol: motu is primarily for universe packages
<elmargol> ok... i give up
<pmjdebruijn> elmargol: you should probably ask on #ubuntu
<elmargol> there are a ton of open bug reports... noone cores... and i have this issues 2,5 years now
<pmjdebruijn> elmargol: did you file the bug on the proper package?
<pmjdebruijn> elmargol: filing good accurate bugs is very important in getting them fixed
<elmargol> roflmao
<pmjdebruijn> huh?
<elmargol> You don't believe that do you?
<pmjdebruijn> elmargol: seriously, what do you expect
<pmjdebruijn> elmargol: developer will prioritize...
<elmargol> if a bug takes more than 10 minutes developers just ignore it :D
 * pmjdebruijn is just another user, btw
<pmjdebruijn> elmargol: You don't believe that do you?
<elmargol> I believe that 100%
<pmjdebruijn> elmargol: well, I can't help you with that... please check if you properly filed your bugs... and ask help on an appropriate channel... like I said, #ubuntu-motu isn't the best place for the bugs you're talking about...
 * directhex thinks there's a pinkware error alongside the hardware error
<pmjdebruijn> directhex: pinkware?
<mgdm> pmjdebruijn: I think he means brains :)
<logari81> does anybody know what I have to do when I get the following error after uploading an update of a package?
<logari81> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/?archive=4208
<pmjdebruijn> mgdm: oh
<ScottK> hmmmm.  Brainzzzz.
 * mgdm shuffles away from ScottK 
<ScottK-laptop> If it's going to take you that long to shuffle, it's probably too late already.
<logari81> unfortunately my client crashed, and possibly lost any answers on my question about:
<logari81> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/?archive=4208
<ScottK-laptop> logari81: No one answered you, but I've asked a REVU hacker to take a look at  it.
 * ScottK-laptop waves to NCommander.
<mgdm> Would someone be able to have a look at the diff in https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hardy-backports/+bug/306280/ ? (Despite appearances, this is nothing to do with Hardy Backports...)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 306280 in libdmtx "Update libdmtx to 0.6.0" [Undecided,New]
<quadrispro> bug 307020
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 307020 in swt-gtk "Please merge swt-gtk 3.4-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/307020
<logari81> ScottK-laptop: do you think I should try to upload the package again or is it already correctly uploaded despite of that error?
<logari81> this is the link to the package
<logari81> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=4208
<ScottK> logari81: I suspect it is correctly uploaded, but don't know for certain.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<ScottK> heya bd.
<ScottK> Urgh.  Not enough coffee for proper tab completion yet.
<ScottK> heya bddebian.
<Nafallo> meeh
<Nafallo> reminding me of my lack of coffee isn't fair :-P
<rjune> blah
 * jdong has a 2.5lb bag to finish in the coming week
<bddebian> Heya ScottK
<jdong> I don't want it to go stale over my winter break
<jdong> nor do I want to take the bag home through the airport because then I seem like some crack dealer
<ScottK> Odd.
 * ScottK measures coffee staleness in months and years, not days and weeks.
<geser> Hi bddebian
<jdong> winter break is ~1.5mo
<jdong> and I don't have a really great airtight container
<bddebian> Heya geser
<jdong> that's going to be on my christmas shopping list.
<ScottK> Freezer?
<jdong> I suppose that works too
<leonel> scottK hello !   do you know  why bug 271546 are not yet fixed on  dapper and gutsy ??
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 271546 in clamav "[hardy] Multiple unfixed CVEs" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/271546
<ScottK> leonel: No.
<ScottK> jdstrand_ or kees ^^
<ScottK> leonel: Go have a look at r4550 in the clamav svn.
<rjune> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/PackageUpdate <--- in the Method section of that, should dget -xu URL be dget -x URL?
<jdong> rjune: -u allows unsigned extraction right?
<jdong> yes
<jdong> so that is correct
<jdong> otherwise if you don't have the package's signing key in your GPG keyring, newer dget refuses to extract
<rjune> jdong, when I do dget -xu, I get an error that -u is not known.
<rjune> ok, it's a recent change then
<jdong> I'm pretty sure it works Hardy+
<leonel> scottK   to enable  the chm ??
<ScottK> leonel: Yes.  Then you can test if the vulnerability is real or not.
<rjune> jdong, doesn't work in hardy, might work in intrepid
<ScottK> jdong: Personally, I consider unsigned extraction failure a feature.  It reminds me to go fetch their GPG key and check if I'm going to do anything with the code.
<rjune> ScottK, nobody is complaining about it. just trying to verify the behaviour is correct
<leonel> well .. I guess is real since the module is disabled  and clamav fixed the bug
<ScottK> leonel: It's real for 0.94, but is it real for 0.92?
<ScottK> rjune: I wouldn't recommend -xu to people myself.
<ScottK> But then I do crazy stuff like make sure md5sums match before I upload a tarball too.
 * rjune shrugs. not my wiki.
<jdong> ScottK: I mostly agree when human intervention is there
<jdong> ScottK: for prevu it was more of an annoyance that dget started failing in Hardy for unsigned packages
<jdong> s/unsigned/unknownly signed/
<jdong> it wouldn't make any sense to automatically fetch and trust a GPG key either
<ScottK> True.
<ScottK> My main concern is DNS cache poisoning and so if you're fetching the GPG key from a different domain than the code, then at least your odds are better.
<ScottK> i.e. they have to successfully poison both of them.
<rjune> does fakeroot depend on cdbs?
<jdong> do you mean to ask the other way around?
<jdong> ScottK: well my secondary concern is it takes a human to verify whether or not a package is signed by the right person and whether I got the right key for the person... IMO automating that and giving a false sense of security is worse than just plain assuming the data can be compromise.
<rjune> jdong, no
<rjune> jdong, I installed fakeroot and went to run it
<jdong> it's always been my belief that security done wrong is worse than nothing done at all
<rjune> it failed because cdbs was not installed
<jdong> rjune: fakeroot has nothing to do with cdbs or Debian at all.
<jdong> fakeroot is a standard Linux command that can be used on any distribution to give the appearance of root access.
<jdong> what you're seeing is probably your package's build scripts being run with fakeroot that need cdbs.
<rjune> jdong, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/PackageUpdate <-- working through that
<rjune> which allows for using fakeroot or as roo
<rjune> as root
<rjune> so I installed fakeroot
<rjune> which failed because it didn't install cdbs as a dependancy.
<rjune> which gets back to my initial question. does fakeroot depend(require, need) cdbs. your answer seems to be yes it does.
<jdong> rjune: NO, fakeroot does not depend on cdbs.
<jdong> rjune: fakeroot doesn't do anything but change your user to look like it's root.
<jdong> but if you run something under fakeroot, it can require other things like cdbs.
<jdong> that's like me running sudo firefox
<jdong> and concluding sudo requires X, GTK, Mozilla, XulRunner, etc.
<rjune> ok, so cdbs is required by the build scripts
<jdong> that's correct
<jdong> for your particular package you're working with, yes :)
<rjune> then the web page should be updated to indicate you need to install cdbs
<rjune> which it does.
<rjune> dammit, missed that line
<jdong> whoops :)
<rjune> I hate it when I do that.
<rjune> jdong, is cdbs a standard requirement for building packages?
<jdong> rjune: no
<ScottK-laptop> rjune: No.  Some use it.  Some don't.
<rjune> do debs have such a concept as build requires?
<jdong> yes.
<jdong> Build-Depends
<jdong> generally only a small subset of them is required to build the source target with debuild -S
<rjune> so then cdbs should be in the build-depends for anything that requires cdbs?
<jdong> yes
<jdong> otherwise the package would not build
<rjune> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/PackageUpdate <-- I'm still here.
<rjune> it says to install cdbs at the beginning, but I'm wondering if updating the dsc file is a better solution
<jdong> look in debian/control
<jdong> cdbs is absolutely listed in the build depends
<jdong> otherwise the package would not build in the Ubuntu build system
<rjune> then why does it not error immediately when I try to build it with cdbs not installed?
<rjune> Instead I got an error these files are missing
<jdong> because to evaluate the build conditions cdbs is used.
<jdong> the makefile debian/rules will immediately die a horrible death trying to find the cdbs scripts
<rjune> so upon attempting to build something with deb, it does not first verify all the build-requires are installed?
<rjune> or does cdbs do that verification?
<jdong> in the case of cdbs, cdbs does that verification.
<jdong> the actual rule for reading the build requirements is a part of the build script.
<jdong> and in the case of cdbs, the build script (debian/rules) is surprisingly empty except for a bunch of cdbs includes.
<rjune> so if I do  debuild -S -sa, then cdbs is responsible for looking at Build-Depends and making sure everything is installed?
<directhex> the build system used in debian/rules is
<jdong> correct
<directhex> which in this case is cdbs
<directhex> it might be something different, in theory
<rjune> ok, then just install cdbs because it's effectively required to do package building. even if it isn't a strict technical one.
<jdong> for your package, yes.
<jdong> because it was made with cdbs
<jdong> not all packages are made with cdbs.
<jdong> it is one of several build systems that are available for use
<directhex> dh7!
<rjune> jdong, right, not everything uses cdbs, it's not a technical requirement. but a fair number of packages do, and when they do, there's no way to verify it before hand. so just install it so you have it
<jdong> well, I suppose.
<jdong> it doesn't hurt to have cdbs around.
 * directhex hurts jdong 
<jdong> eewww proposal 8!
<jdong> *ducks*
<rjune> what other require engines should I have installed?
<Laney> Wait, what?
<Laney> The build system gets build-deps?
<jdong> Laney: the buildsystem usually calls a standard debhelper mechanism that checks them yes
<Laney> I thought that dpkg-buildpackage did that
<Laney> parsing of control
<jdong> Laney: yes, but before doing so:
<jdong> unless ($noclean) { withecho(@rootcommand, @debian_rules, 'clean');
<jdong> }
<jdong> which runs the debian/rules target
<jdong> which you're screwed on if one of the included makefiles isn't available :)
<jdong> which is why it's helpful to use an internal variant of pdebuild to even buidl source packages
<rjune> jdong, any other engines besides cdbs Ishould have installed?
<Laney> But that doesn't actually install anything itself
<jdong> rjune: get them when they come.
<Laney> You have to have stuff used in the clean target installed to build source packages
<jdong> don't waste time now trying to foresee every build dependency you might need in the future.
<jdong> there's a few packages that are evil enough to require a substantial amount of stuff to execute their clean target
<Laney> But I don't think anything actually check that - building will just bomb out?
<rjune> but seeing as I won't know what they are until I get an error about them. which may or may not provide information as to what I actually need. I figured I would ask.
<jdong> Laney: yeah...
<Laney> ok
<Laney> I guess I was confused as to what you were saying
<jdong> depending on how you clean.
<Laney> right
<jdong> if you are doing a fakeroot debian/rules clean, yeah it'll bomb out.
<jdong> but if cleaning is a part of a debuild/dpkg-buildpackage sequence, you're okay
<jdong> those check build deps before cleaning
<pmjdebruijn> I just fixed the amd64 issue with my package, can someone review the corrected version ( http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=lensfun )?
<superm1> crimsun, I've not tested that snapshot.  i've tested the stuff in intrepid and hardy at this point
<DRebellion> sebner, I checked the amd64 cifer binary from the packages before adding the chrpath --delete and after, and chrpath reports that neither of them contain rpath tags
<sebner> DRebellion: how that? O_o
<DRebellion> sebner, i'm not sure
<DRebellion> sebner, perhaps there wasn't a problem after all?
<sebner> DRebellion: I'll recheck that today or tomorrow. Besides this issue your package could be advocated so I'll try to solve that
<DRebellion> sebner, ok thanks.
<`Chris> Hello #ubuntu-motu! Can anyone direct me to some beginner tutorials for packing and maintaining packages in Ubuntu?
<DRebellion> `Chris, dive in: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete
<`Chris> Thanks a bunch DRebellion
<DktrKranz> `Chris, you could also look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted (it has some references to Ubuntu development) and http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ (for packaging rules in general).
<rjune> ogra, You get your package?
<morgs> jdong: are you on motu-sru?
* RainCT changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Masters of the Universe - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Grab a  merge: http://dad.dunnewind.net http://merges.ubuntu.com | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs | Go REVU! :)
<morgs> I urgently need to get bug 263173 approved for SRU
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 263173 in sugar-hulahop "Sugar Browse fails on startup" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/263173
<morgs> jdong, nxvl, cody-somerville ^ please?
<ogra> rjune, yeah, we'll try it tonight ;)
<rjune> fantastic
<hyperair> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sigx <-- review, anyone?
 * hyperair officially hates scons
<jpds> hyperair: Wow, we could make a club.
<hyperair> jpds: you've got bad experiences with scons too?
<jpds> hyperair: Pretty much, I personally prefer cmake
<hyperair> i prefer autotools
<hyperair> cmake has too damn much caps
<hyperair> hurts my eyes
<jpds> hyperair: In the CMakeLists.txt files? The commands don't have to be caps.
<hyperair> oh
<hyperair> ah well. i'm sticking to autotools for the time being
<hyperair> as for my scons comment, i say it from the packaging point of view
<hyperair> first i realize that cdbs doesn't have support for scons. then i realize that there is a sample scons.mk and scons-vars.mk that could be included in cdbs, but isn't for some reason or other. then i realize that the lib i'm trying to package comes with a wonderful scons file that DOESNT HAVE DESTDIR
<hyperair> or any other method of specifying alternate root
 * hyperair headdesks
<slytherin> hyperair: I guess that is why someone wished you luck for scons
<hyperair> slytherin: oh yeah that. must be
<hyperair> i found on nabble two people who were trying to come up with packaging for sigx
<hyperair> they were doing it for debian, and for some strange reason, they wanted to rewrite the build system in the process
<hyperair> that was in august, and there hasn't been any news from them
<hyperair> maybe i should try contacting them
<slytherin> geser: remember I filed bug for removing libjaxp1.2-java from archives in intrepid cycle? Looks like it was not blacklisted. The source has appeared in jaunty queue.
<cody-somerville> morgs, approved
<slytherin> Can any archive admins please blacklist libjaxp1.2-java and remove the source from jaunty queue? I am looking for the removal bug.
<slytherin> bug #251973
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 251973 in libjaxp1.2-java "Please remove the package from repositories" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/251973
<fabrice_sp> Hi. Anybody to have a look at bug #306754? I pasted a debdiff to fix a FTBFS (also happen in Intrepid).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 306754 in pose "[FTBFS] pose FTBFS in Jaunty with gcc 4.3" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/306754
<geser> slytherin: did it pass the (source) NEW queue already?
<slytherin> geser: nope.
<geser> slytherin: the please try to get an archive admin REJECT it and add it to the sync blacklist
<slytherin> geser: so should I try on #ubuntu-devel?
<geser> yes
<geser> if it isn't the archive yet, we don't have to remove it again
<slytherin> fabrice_sp: Did you check the build logs. The package has built fine on i386 and some other architectures.
<slytherin> geser: ok
<fabrice_sp> slytherin: yes, but i was before gcc 4.3 was the default compiler
<fabrice_sp> there is the same bug in Debian, with the same patch
<fabrice_sp> but the package maintainer seems 'dead'
<slytherin> fabrice_sp: my mistake. Didn't check that it was last built in gutsy.
<fabrice_sp> slytherin: :-) This package also needs a porting to amd64 :-/ I'm on it, but it's huge
<slytherin> geser: By the way, do you think I should raise a high priority bug for libquartz-java problem in Debian? I have not received any reply to my mail on debian-java ML.
<geser> slytherin: have you tried to get an opinion about it from #debian-devel/OFTC?
<slytherin> geser: No. I was thinking about that. Will try tomorrow.
<geser> it sounds like at least "important" or even higher (which would make it a RC-bug) but I'm not sure if it's RC or not
<sebner> bobbo: CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D :D
<rjune> ?
<DktrKranz> bobbo, \o/
<DRebellion> rjune, he got MOTU status.
<DRebellion> bobbo, congrats ;)
<slytherin> bobbo: Congratulations. :-)
<loevborg> Hi. I uploaded a package to revu, but it doesn't show up on my profile page on revu.ubuntuwire.com. What could I have done wrong?
<rjune> bobbo, yay! good job
<DRebellion> loevborg, how long ago did you upload it? It usually takes ~5 minutes to show up.
<rjune> DRebellion, I assume that means he can commit directly?
<loevborg> DRebellion: >45min
<DRebellion> rjune, yes.
<loevborg> It's my first upload btw, so maybe I messed up the pgp key or something.
<DRebellion> loevborg, perhaps =/ . Maybe one of the revu admins is around to help...
<slytherin> loevborg: have you ever logged in revu before uploading the package?
<loevborg> slytherin: maybe I haven't logged in before _adding my pgp key_!
<bobbo> DktrKranz, sebner, slytherin, rjune: Thanks alot guys! :D
<loevborg> slytherin: should I re-upload after re-logging in?
<rjune> bobbo, how long did it take?
<slytherin> loevborg: your pgp key gets synced from launchpad. so if you had not logged in to revu at least once before uploading the package then that is root cause of your problem.
<bobbo> rjune: My first upload was in January this year, so ~1 year
 * slytherin is felling sleepy, quits
<loevborg> hah now it worked
<Hellow> Hello
<Hellow> How specifically would I get a package included into the Universe repository for Jaunty?
<laga> Hellow: thru REVU
<joaopinto> Hellow, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages
<Hellow> thanks
<directhex> Hellow, is it Free Software? that's a good start
<Hellow> it is under the BSD license
<Hellow> #netrek is the channel that the people that want the package in the Universe is
<Hellow> could one of you join in there and explain to them how to get it in?
<Hellow> I cannot sufficiently explain it without making rather large errors.
<laga> they could just ask in here themselves, or read the wiki pages and ask questions if they arise
<Hellow> ok
<rjune> laga, howdy
<laga> hi rjune
<rjune> save my memory, you were/are a regular in #ltsp right
<laga> yes :)
<Hellow> ask these people, akb4
<laga> i used to be, now there's not so much time anymore. i'll be working on ltsp/mythbuntu-diskless again over christmas break
<akb4> ok. Hi there, all.
<akb4> I'm part of a group that has a package in debian sid. It's a game. (Oldest active internet, in fact). We'd like it in ubuntu. I'm not sure we can come up with a maintainer. Help?
<LaserJock> akb4: if the package is already in sid then it should be in Ubuntu too
<akb4> does that happen automatically?
<LaserJock> pretty much yeah
<Hellow> didnt know that xD
<LaserJock> the archive admins get a list of the applications from Debian that are new and will generally let them in
<LaserJock> if you want to make sure we can look
<Hellow> the package is netrek-client-cow, fyi
<LaserJock> was just going to ask :-)
<Hellow> heh
<LaserJock> oh, was going to ask akb4 that
<LaserJock> or are you working on the same
<LaserJock> ?
<Hellow> we are working on the same
<Hellow> I was the person who originally started up with all the Ubuntu related stuff
<mgdm> I read about netrek the other day, somewhere
<Hellow> (in that project)
<akb4> mgdm: I'd love to know where
<mgdm> the jargon file, IIRC?
<akb4> ok, not listed on packages.ubuntu.com
<Hellow> it was recently added to sid, as far as I know
<LaserJock> akb4: ok, it's fairly new and in non-free
<akb4> now, the original upload went to the "non-free" section about 3-4 weeks ago. that was a mistake, and the debian maintainer just submitted a new upload an hour ago.
<LaserJock> that would probably be the reason we don't have it yet
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> I believe that will make a big difference
<LaserJock> I believe, though could be wrong, that we don't automatically import from non-free
<Hellow> that should be correct LaserJock
<akb4> once the deb mirrors have it in the correct section, what's the likely propagation time to ubuntu?
<Hellow> Dont they upload packages to Universe and Multiuniverse later in the development cycle, LaserJock?
<LaserJock> well, looking at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JauntyReleaseSchedule
<LaserJock> it looks like you have until Christmas :-)
<LaserJock> at Debian Import Freeze (DIF) is when we stop automatically importing from Debian
<akb4> ok. how fast does the import occur once debian has it?
<LaserJock> akb4, Hellow: what I would do is keep an eye on our archive and see if it goes through
<LaserJock> if it hasn't by Christmas give us a ping
<Hellow> would it be included into the Intrepid repo also?
<LaserJock> that I'm not exactly sure, if I had to guess I'd say maybe a week or so
<LaserJock> Hellow: no
<LaserJock> Intrepid is out the door, only critical and security updates
<LaserJock> you could however perhaps ask for a backport
<Hellow> Naa, Jaunty is close enough :)
<Hellow> Now you can see why I could not give a straight answer without making serious errors while describing this...
<LaserJock> so I'd just keep an eye on the situation
<akb4> LaserJock: thanks very much. Hellow: yep, I figured it was something like this.
<LaserJock> if, for whatever reason, it doesn't show up before Christmas let us know
<LaserJock> after Christmas we can manually do it
<akb4> ok, I'll try to keep an eye on it.
<LaserJock> akb4, Hellow: thanks for checking in
<akb4> sure thing.
<Hellow> np
<LaserJock> it's always helpful when Debian people show interest in what's going on, makes for a smoother ride :-)
<nhandler> bobbo: Congrats on becoming a MOTU!
<ScottK> bobbo: Congratulations.
<bobbo> thanks guys! :D
<nhandler> bobbo: So, what is your first upload going to be ?
<bobbo> already made it, libparted transition
<ScottK> netrek-client-cow appears to be in Debian New.
<james_w> congratulations bobbo
<jcastro> bobbo: \o/
<bobbo> :D
 * nhandler is glad he didn't do this on identi.ca
<emgent> bobbo: congrats :)
<RainCT> bobbo: congrats!
#ubuntu-motu 2008-12-12
<radix> what's the policy about using a distro series of UNRELEASED? I've seen it a few times
<azeem> it's a placeholder for a not-yet-ready-to-be-uploaded package
<radix> hmm, okay, I thought I've seen changelogs that had UNRELEASED for one entry and a real distro series for the next
<azeem> so you don't accidently upload a half-ready package, cause unreleased is not a valid distro
<radix> ah, okay
<azeem> radix: that means that changelog didn't get uploaded then
<radix> so it's not actually processed by anything, it's just a convention to prevent mistakes
<azeem> I think so, yes
<calc> radix: i think normally people don't bump package revision for unreleased packages so you shouldn't see that often unless you are in looking in a revision control system
<calc> er i mean they just rename UNRELEASED to the distro and don't bump the version again for the distro version
<radix> so I was preparing a package for releasing upstream version 1.0.24 but now 1.0.25 is out. should I just rewrite my top changelog entry to talk about 1.0.25 and cat the two changelogs together or should I add a new entry?
<azeem> the former is more customary
<calc> radix: if you never uploaded 1.0.24 then i just cat them together
<radix> hm, okay
<radix> alright cool
<azeem> if you prefer the latter, then it makes sense to keep the unreleased around so people reading the changelog know that didn't get uploaded
<azeem> but I think most people go with just changing the version
<nhandler> ScottK-laptop: ping
<ScottK> Pong
<ScottK> nhandler: ^^
<ScottK> Is this aboug skanlite?
<nhandler> Yeah ScottK
<nhandler> Was your upgrade (aside from the icon) the same as the one ajmorris did?
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> Actually I didnt' diff them, but I probably should.
 * ScottK fires up diff.
<nhandler> Ok, I just wanted to verify. And I do appreciate you giving him credit for the desktop file icon change upload
<ScottK> nhandler: I also dropped the transitional package.
<nhandler> Ok, that is fine
<ScottK> Well it was my bad.  I should have checked bugs before I updated it.
<nhandler> Well, it isn't a huge deal. The package got updated, and the bug got closed. ajmorris also got the learning experience of doing the upgrade.
<ScottK> Hopefully he doesn't feel too upset I did it too.
<nhandler> ScottK: I just talked with him. He is fine and looking forward to trying another upgrade ;)
<ScottK-laptop> OK.  Great.  I felt bad when I realized I'd bypassed the work he did.
<hyperair> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sigx <-- review, anyone?
<fabrice_sp> hyperair: lintian gives me an error on package libsigx-2.0_2.0-0ubuntu1_amd64.deb
<fabrice_sp> E: libsigx-2.0: sharedobject-in-library-directory-missing-soname usr/lib/libsigx-2.0.so
<fabrice_sp> and I'm having a warning on the dev package: W: libsigx-dev: debian-changelog-file-is-a-symlink
<fabrice_sp> and no doc package built :-/
<hyperair> fabrice_sp: are you sure there isn't a doc package built?
<hyperair> fabrice_sp: it built on my system
<hyperair> libsigx-doc
<hyperair> and yes i know that there isn't a SONAME, but the problem is that the upstream made it that way. what should i do?
<hyperair> also, i don't know what i can do about the warning. dh_something automatically makes stuff the /usr/share/doc/<pkg>/ files symlinks if a dependency of the same source package contains them
<hyperair> i mean if a dependency, which comes from the same source packaage includes them
<hyperair> -dev depends on -2.0
<fabrice_sp> hyperair: about doc package. I switched to sbuild recently, and could be my fault. I'll check
<hyperair> alright
<hyperair> so what should i do about that missing SONAME?
<hyperair> should i add it?
<fabrice_sp> I've just seen a big problem with sources: not all sources have a copyright.
<fabrice_sp> (header)
<RAOF_> hyperair: I believe the cannonical response to "upstream doesn't use a SONAME" is the "let's talk about library versioning" talk.
<hyperair> T_T why do i pick all the hardest packages to package
<fabrice_sp> because they are all hard to package? :-P
<hyperair> no, the first one i picked was codelite, and i can't continue because all the extensions are placed in /usr/share/codelite, instead of /usr/lib/codelite
<hyperair> that one also had copyright header issues
<hyperair> which i managed to persuade upstream to fix
<hyperair> but the whole extensions dir thing still requires more work from upstream
<hyperair> and then there's this one which has issues with copyright headers missing as well
<hyperair> say, is there any tool that can show me which files are missing copyright headers without having to upload to revu?
<fabrice_sp> I do it by hand
<fabrice_sp> opening all single src file
<hyperair> it's tedious
<fabrice_sp> I know, but without copyright header, the package won't be accepted...
<pmjdebruijn> good morning
<pmjdebruijn> Does anybody have time to review my new package: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=lensfun
<pmjdebruijn> I already fixed all lintian errors, and a amd64 related issue
<pmjdebruijn> It should be in pretty good shape
<cutout> hello, can you please review my package it is called monajat
<RAOF_> hyperair: There's 'licensecheck', which I think is what revu uses.  In ubuntu-dev-tools, I believe.
<hyperair> RAOF_: i see. thanks
<RAOF_> Libraries are always more difficult.
<cutout> hello am searching for a MOTU :-D
<pythetic> hi. if a daemon package has no sensible default configuration should it have an ENABLED="false" line in a /etc/default/foo file?
<directhex> sounds sensible to me
<cutout> Hello am new here, how can I get my package reviewed??
<DktrKranz> StevenK: re bug 303245, I don't see sources in Intrepid yet. Is that normal?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 303245 in intrepid-backports "Please backport amule-adunanza" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/303245
 * directhex wonders who's alive, can do merges, and can be poked into action with a mere cookie
<Laney> didrocks: you rocks
<Laney> huats: (you're not here but) you rocks too
<directhex> they do?
<sebner> directhex: subscribe u-u-s?
<Laney> directhex: Yeah! They did stuff that I need to update glom and goocanvasmm, so they get roses and chocolates from me
<directhex> sebner, done!
<sebner> directhex: beagle?
<directhex> sebner, yes!
<directhex> it's the beagliest!
<sebner> directhex: I'll be back in some hours. If nobody takes it until then I'll do it
<directhex> yay
<pmjdebruijn> does anybody have the time to take a look at my new package: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=lensfun
<didrocks> Laney: ^^
<cutout> looking for someone to review my package
<cutout> ???
<directhex> cutout, people are at the ubuntu developer summit. it's nighttime in california
<cutout> sorry, but when can I connect to this channel
<mikearthur> hey guys, trying to package my software for Ubuntu, is this the right channel for questions?
<ScottK-laptop> mikearthur: It is the right channel.
<mikearthur> in my control file, as debuild gets my runtime deps automatically, do I add the devel packages to Build-Depends?
<ScottK-laptop> Generally yes.
<mikearthur> ok, thanks
<mikearthur> is there any way of tweaking ${shlibs:Depends} output, it's depending on too fine a Qt version
<mikearthur> e.g. 4.4.3 when 4.4.0 works fine
<Laney> But 4.4.3 is already in the release, right?
<mikearthur> yeh, I guess
<ScottK-laptop> mikearthur: It's doing that because that's what you built it against.  If it was built against an earlier version it would give a different anwser.
<mikearthur> ah ok
<mikearthur> yeh, I guess if that's in the release it's fine
<ScottK-laptop> mikearthur: Put the correct minimum version in the build-dep version requirement (for backports) and it'll all work out.
<mikearthur> ok, thanks
<mikearthur> also, my package probably isn't going to go in Ubuntu (proprietary, sadly)
<mikearthur> so is it acceptable for the hardy package to depend on something in hardy-backports?
<ScottK-laptop> emgent: It looks like UTU is stuck.
<ScottK-laptop> mikearthur: That's up to you and your use case then.
<ScottK-laptop> mikearthur: If your target is Hardy with backports enabled, then it's fine.
<mikearthur> the fact you haven't gasped and tried to kill me over the internet means I'll probably do it then ;)
<ScottK-laptop> mikearthur: If you learn about packaging your proprietary app, maybe you'll also use that knowledge for good.
<mikearthur> aye, I will
<mikearthur> I'm a KDE developer as well, just got to pay the bills and that
<mikearthur> work for www.mendeley.com and we may opensource one day
<ScottK-laptop> Understand.  We all have bills to pay.
<ScottK-laptop> mikearthur: What do you work on in KDE?
<mikearthur> little bits and pieces
<mikearthur> KOrganizer, KDEPIM stuff
<ScottK-laptop> OK.  Ah.
<ScottK-laptop> mikearthur: If you want to work on KDEish stuff here, you're welcome to join us in #kubuntu-devel.
<mikearthur> yeh, cheers
<bobbo> Can any MOTU ACK a sync request?
<DktrKranz> bobbo: you can do it on your own now ;)
<bobbo> DktrKranz: hehe, I meant, can I ACK someone elses sync request now?
<DktrKranz> bobbo: unless it's maintained by a specific subset of people (you should notify them), you can
<bobbo> DktrKranz: cool, thanks :)
<DktrKranz> you're welcome :)
<DktrKranz> bobbo: and thanks for joining u-u-s!
<bobbo> DktrKranz: I spent most of the last year sitting in that queue, I'll do anything to help it out!
<DktrKranz> bobbo: GREAT!
<bobbo> DktrKranz: already cleared out most of an NBS too (Being a MOTU is awesome)
<pflanze> Hello. Who should I talk to about the gambc package which lists the ubuntu-motu mailing list as maintainer?
<pflanze> Or, asked differently: *should* I talk with anyone, or should I just communicate with the Debian packager whose package I guess is the basis of this one?
<DktrKranz> bobbo: heh, it's good to have superpowers to speed up things
 * DktrKranz has three items in u-m-s queue right now, waiting for sponsors too :)
<DktrKranz> bobbo: have you already started clearing NBSes?
<bobbo> DktrKranz: yep, did libparted1.8-9 -> libparted1.8-10 last night
<DktrKranz> bobbo: it's good, but I'd wait DIF just to avoid wasting buildds time if newer versions are autosynced from Debian (rarely, these days though). They get rebuilt automatically.
<bobbo> DktrKranz: OK, I checked in Debian to see if there were new versions but there were none, so thought that would be OK?
<directhex> sebner, still about?
<Elbrus> pflanze: I guess it depends what the subject is. You are invited to just post your question here.
<Elbrus> people will redirect if necessary
<hefe_bia> Hi! What has higher priority: Removing unnecessary (big) stuff from original sources or leaving the original source archive intact? (Speaking about 2MiB vs. 10MiB)
<directhex> hefe_bia, disk space is cheaper than developer time
<directhex> hefe_bia, repacking orig sucks
<hefe_bia> directhex: ok, nice - that's what I thought. Just wanted to make sure before uploading to revu...
 * jpds waves at SWAT.
 * SWAT waves back at jpds 
<hefe_bia> So... I have fixed the licensing issues of gebabbel together with upstream. Gebabbel is a frontend for gpsbabel. If someone wants to review: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=gebabbel - I'd be happy ;)
<DktrKranz> hefe_bia: since I commented it, I'd be happy to review it later this evening, mind remind me later?
<hefe_bia> DktrKranz: Thank you! I'll be here for a while (Have to work late...)
<DktrKranz> hefe_bia: heh... work is a common tragedy :)
<hefe_bia> ;)
<pflanze> Elbrus: I had written to the mailing list in the meantime.
<cutout> hello am looking for a MOTU to review my package... is this the right time??
<DktrKranz> cutout: yes
<jcfp> Looking for volunteers to review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sabnzbdplus. It was advocated before but has received no reviews in a long time. TIA
<DktrKranz> hefe_bia, commented on gebabbel
 * directhex wonders who's alive, present, and has magic merge powers
<sebner> directhex: myself, you are a way too impatient
<directhex> sebner, yes!
<sebner> directhex: I'll take a look and upload beagle merge then
<DktrKranz> beagle?
<DktrKranz> sebner, do you remember our time with beagle? :)
<sebner> DktrKranz: hihi, yes
<directhex> yeah yeah, i know, beagle sucks
<directhex> but unless you're talking about yanking it from the archive, this merge is needed
<sebner> directhex: no, he means that myself also merged beagle sometimes
<DktrKranz> we spent half an hour to discover why that one FTBFSed
<sebner> DktrKranz is the FTBFS killer =)
<DktrKranz> wasn't it ncommander?
<sebner> DktrKranz: nope, you you yo
<directhex> NCommander is the FTBFS killer. no disrespect, DktrKranz, but his record's a few miles long ;)
<sebner> heh
<hefe_bia> DktrKranz: the gpsbabel stuff is not used at all for the Ubuntu package. It does not link with gpsbabel. It uses CLI. Upstream just wants to ship the static binaries for convenience.
<DktrKranz> hefe_bia, I understand, but I think it would be clearer if that part would be omitted
<hefe_bia> So I should change the original tarball?
<DktrKranz> My guess is that, others might think it differently
<hefe_bia> <directhex> hefe_bia, disk space is cheaper than developer time
<hefe_bia>  hefe_bia, repacking orig sucks
<hefe_bia> ;)
<DktrKranz> unsafe binary objects are much worse ;)
<hefe_bia> But they are not used at all. They don't make it into the .deb
<rjune> hefe_bia, did you catch that I found out how to verify the version of the dev environ pbuilder has?
<mseaborn> would anyone like to review my package for Xpra (which is basically "screen" for X)? :-)  i uploaded a package to http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=parti-all
<hefe_bia> rjune: no. I think I was offline then. How did you do it?
<directhex> wait, wait, hold on, hefe_bia never said they were BINARY
<directhex> in that case you need to +dfsg it
<directhex> unused source is completely different to unused binary
<hefe_bia> directhex: ok. Misunderstanding there... ;)
<rjune> cat /etc/lsb-release
<rjune> that seems to be it.
<hefe_bia> rjune: nice. Didn't think of that ;)
<directhex> rjune, technically i think you're meant to use the lsb_release command
<rjune> directhex, where were you two days ago when I asked? :-)
<directhex> rjune, eating pizza
<iulian> Hmm, yummy.
<hefe_bia> directhex: Regarding the binary issue: Is this for legal or for security reasons? (dfsg version)
<rjune> oh, well then. pizza makes it all better
<directhex> hefe_bia, security reasons are precisely WHY you're meant to +dfsg it to remove binary junk
<LaserJock> well, +dfsg is legal
<ScottK> LaserJock: +1
<LaserJock> but security is a part of it for sure
<pochu> but if it's not used at all, then there's no need to remove it, is there?
<pochu> (providing the source is shipped too, otherwise it would be a DFSG violation)
<hefe_bia> source is shipped too.
<LaserJock> I probably wouldn't bother if it doesn't end up in the .deb
<pochu> then I think you can leave it there
 * DktrKranz wonders why to ship them, then
<hefe_bia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Howtos/ChangingTheOrigTarball also does not mention any reason to strip them
<directhex> ftpmaster would probably reject it if you submitted to debian
<directhex> if you care
<DktrKranz> 13,9 Mb of "junk" against a total size of 14.3 Mb
<pochu> DktrKranz: ouch
<LaserJock> directhex: you think so?
<pochu> hefe_bia: btw, why does upstream ship them, if it's not used at all?
<directhex> LaserJock, if i know what ftpmaster is like, yes
<directhex> pochu, optional. probably
<pochu> hmm, what package are we talking about? :P
<directhex> pochu, i.e. --with-foolib=system
<LaserJock> wait it's 13.9 MB of binary in 14.3 MB total?
<LaserJock> directhex: as do I
<pochu> s/what/which/
<DktrKranz> pochu, gebabbel
<hefe_bia> pochu: He wants to ship them for convenience so users don't habe to compile gpsbabel themselves.
<pochu> ok
<DktrKranz> LaserJock, exactly
<hefe_bia> I don't think it's a good idea but I couldn't convince him otherwise.
<LaserJock> DktrKranz: holy cow, that's a whole different ball game
<hefe_bia> I'm happy to provide a +dfsg version as long as I don't get somebody else complaining about that...
<LaserJock> that means 97% of the package in terms of space is binary!
<DktrKranz> well, I need to redo my numbers... half of the 13.9 Mb are from gpsbabel source tarball
<LaserJock> I don't know if I'd necessarily call that a +dfsg, as it's not a legal issue
<DktrKranz> but we have some .exe and .dll which are ~ 7 Mb
<DktrKranz> maybe a +repack would help?
<LaserJock> yeah, perhaps so
<hefe_bia> btw, I had +dfsg before when upstream did not include the sources...
<DktrKranz> that was right
<LaserJock> that's enough extra cruft to make it worth stripping out, IMO
<hefe_bia> so I'll move the get-orig-source stuff back in and change it accordingly to use repack instead of dfsg and exclude the sources, too...
<pochu> hefe_bia: try to convince upstream if users don't want to build that library, they don't need to as it's optional :)
<DktrKranz> mseaborn, I'll have a look
<pochu> hefe_bia: and that instead of shipping binaries in the source tarball, they could build the application itself and ship that separately
<hefe_bia> pochu: I told him that it would be better to leave the binaries out of the source distribution.
<mseaborn> ï»¿DktrKranz: thanks
<fabrice_sp> Hi! Someone willing to spend some time reviewing dvdstyler (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=dvdstyler)? Thanks!
<DktrKranz> mseaborn, commented
<cutout> Is there a MOTU to review JAVA applications here?
<rjune> ok, so I've read through the basic docs. I want to build a package. I'm guessing that the packages at merges.ubuntu.com all have problems with Jaunty?
<rjune> aka, what package should I work on?
<RainCT> ScottK: Someone is asking me about an antivirus for Ubuntu (to protect Ubuntu itself, not other systems). I'm right if I tell him "just keep your system updates and forget about antivirus stuff", aren't I?
<directhex> RainCT, technically, yes
<ScottK-laptop> RainCT: It depends.  Generally yes, but there are some cross-platform problems in, for instance, Firefox.
<ScottK-laptop> RainCT: If you know what you're doing, it's  no problem.
<RainCT> ScottK-laptop: but is an antivirus going to avoid this?
<mseaborn> ï»¿DktrKranz: what is wrong with "Architecture: any" in this case?  the package includes a python extension module.  (would you prefer if i posted this question on the REVU review page?)
<directhex> RainCT, technically, of course, you could recommend clamav. but most people used to the idea of virus scanners expect on-access protection
<ScottK-laptop> RainCT: Not really sure.  Clamav also has some anti-phishing stuff in it too now, so it's not completely irrelevant.
<ScottK-laptop> Right, which clamav can't do until we get the Dazuko modules in the kernel.
<directhex> you mean clam IS getting on-access?
<directhex> hurrah
<LaserJock> RainCT: I would venture to guess that somebody asking about antivirus for Ubuntu is really talking about overall security
<LaserJock> and not just specifically about viruses
<RainCT> ScottK-laptop, directhex : Thanks. I'll quote you, if you're fine with this.
<rjune> ogra!
<directhex> RainCT, i never say anything i'm not prepared to back up
<RainCT> + LaserJock: he just heard about antivirus for GNU/Linux on the radio or something and doesn't want to believe me that it's unnecessary :P
<DktrKranz> mseaborn, does it compile architecture dependent code?
<directhex> Grisoft sell antivirus for linux, albeit an obsolete version (8.0 is current, only 7.5 for linux)
<ScottK-laptop> directhex: It's actually for Klamav.  Klamav + Clamav + Dazuko can do on access.
<LaserJock> RainCT: I generally tell people that it's always possible, but so far it's not a very common threat
<LaserJock> people seem more like likely to get nailed through Firefox or ssh
<ScottK-laptop> Yep.
<LaserJock> I've seen a number of machines broken into via ssh
<ScottK-laptop> OTOH, if you forward stuff to friends with Windows, making sure you forward on clean stuff is polite.
<LaserJock> yeah, Ubuntu does a public service :-)
<ScottK-laptop> LaserJock: Yeah, this is why I rate limit ssh attempts in iptables.
<rjune> ogra, How was the booze?
<LaserJock> "help your neighbor, run Ubuntu" ;-)
<LaserJock> ScottK-laptop: I use fail2ban
<directhex> how frequent does the auto debian importificationer run?
<sebner> directhex: uploaded
<directhex> sebner, ta!
<sebner> directhex: and I left a comment :P read it carefully ^^
<jpds> http://www.flickr.com/photos/kwwii/3103305868/ <- UDS group photo.
<krusaf> directhex krusaf@ares:~$ find /etc/cron* -iname "*apt*"
<krusaf> /etc/cron.daily/apt
<krusaf> /etc/cron.daily/aptitude
<directhex> sebner, i don't open a bug until a debdiff is written already! you're trying to break my workflow :'(
<sebner> directhex: your workflow != ubuntu workflow :P
<directhex> waaaaaaaa!
<RainCT> LaserJock: thanks
<RainCT> LaserJock: re SSH, why don't you just disable password authentication? :P
<LaserJock> RainCT: because I might need to ssh in :-)
<RainCT> LaserJock: then you're like me, just that I don't care about security and have no protection at all :P
<RainCT> perhaps I should install fail2ban too..
<LaserJock> RainCT: it's helpful, I figured it out after having a "problem" :-)
<RainCT> heh
<RainCT> hopefully not a bad problem :P
<LaserJock> it's not nice when your computer is used to make like 100k https pings in a couple minutes
<LaserJock> so I then learned 2 things
<LaserJock> 1) fail2ban or similar are very handy
<LaserJock> 2) get rid of old test users as soon as you're done with them
<RainCT> lol yeah, 2 is a good point :)
<RainCT> uhm.. fail2ban could need a GUI :P
<LaserJock> RainCT: I think it'd sort of bee a good addition to the ufw stuff
<LaserJock> letting you poke holes in your firewall with sanity ;-)
<hefe_bia> If somebody from the previous discussion is interested: I have updated gebabbel and stripped the unnecessary parts from the source tarball: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=gebabbel
<CarlFK> when I run dpkg-buildpackage i get a .deb for the platform I am on.  I need to build a 32 bit when I am on x64.  is there a way to do that that does not involve touching the debian/ files?
<CarlFK> something like DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS="nostrip" dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -uc -b
<LaserJock> CarlFK: you could certainly do it with pbuilder/sbuild
<CarlFK> hmm, will I need 32bit:  apt get build-dep foo
<directhex> CarlFK, dpkg doesn't deal with 32-bit and 64-bit versions of the same lib installed at once
<CarlFK> I may be doing this the hard way.  "ï»¿try running the 32bit binaries"  what is the best way to do that?
<LaserJock> CarlFK: I'd set up a 32bit pbuilder
<directhex> so would i
<CarlFK> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto  good place to start?
<LaserJock> CarlFK: probably
<directhex> it has a good pbuilderrc iirc
<CarlFK> "pbuilder is useful for is building i386 packages on an AMD64 machine"  :)
<directhex> it's not foolproof though!
<directhex> there are cases where your real cpu arch is used
<directhex> linux32 should be liberally applied to problem packages
<et3> Is it possible to install a package that just adds text to a system file and deletes that text when uninstalled?
<et3> For instance: if I were to make a package that added it's own bash completion, how would I do that?
<\\localhost> hello, how can i setup the build process in the rules file for a source that is using cmake ?
<DRebellion> sebner, do you think that the rpath issue is present in cifer, or should i reupload a package with the chrpath calls removed?
<LaserJock> \\localhost: depends on what build system you're using (debhelper, cdbs) but in general I think you just want to run cmake in the configure rule
<\\localhost> LaserJock hmmm i have added cd build && cmake ../ in the build-stamp: configure-stamp
<LaserJock> \\localhost: is there a configure: rule?
<LaserJock> \\localhost: you don't really need to really cd build
<LaserJock> \\localhost: you could just run: cmake .
<\\localhost> well i do that because cmake doesn't have "clean" rule
<\\localhost> so i have put "rm -rf build" as clean rule
<\\localhost> but i don't have a configure: rule
<LaserJock> \\localhost: makes sense
<\\localhost> configure: configure-stamp
<\\localhost> configure-stamp:
<\\localhost> i only have theses two
<LaserJock> ok, right, configure: calls configure-stamp:
<LaserJock> so that's where you want it
<\\localhost> yes i've put it there but when i call debuild -S -sa i have an error
<LaserJock> \\localhost: ah, what's the error?
<\\localhost> a mistake of mine , i forgot to gzip the orig file
<\\localhost> gonna repair this
<\\localhost> okay i've generate the dsc file
<bddebian> Heya gang
<directhex> bah, i need to file a sync request
<directhex> hello bddebian
<LaserJock> bddebian: Barry!
<bddebian> Heya directhex, LaserJock!
<LaserJock> bddebian: long time, no see
<bddebian> LaserJock: Aye, where you been hiding? :)
<LaserJock> bddebian: in a dissertation
<StevenK> With a chemistry set
<LaserJock> StevenK: actually the chemistry set is at home (not sure why)
<\\localhost> LaserJock thanks for your support
<LaserJock> \\localhost: no problem, I didn't do much but tell you you were doing it right :-)
<\\localhost> ;)
<bddebian> heh
#ubuntu-motu 2008-12-13
<shingi> is anybody available to answer my questions
<shingi> anybody available to help me
<jpds> shingi: Which question is that?
<shingi> ok, i want to start packaging. I have read the documentation and have done some packaging on my computer
<shingi> how do i now get involved
<jpds> shingi: This page might help: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO
<shingi> ok, will have a look at it
<jmarsden> shingi: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing will probably be worth your while too
<shingi> ok thanks. I am trying to build the Sphinx package and when I ran pbuilder it reports that it cannot find MySQL include files and yet I have done sudo apt-get install libmysqlclient-dev
<ScottK-laptop> shingi: Does the package build-dep on the -dev package?
<ScottK-laptop> Installing it locally doesn't make it available inside the pbuilder chroot.
<ScottK-laptop> It only pulls in the build-deps.
<shingi> sorry I cannot get your question ScottK-laptop. I am new to packaging.
<ScottK-laptop> shingi: In your package in debian/control there is a field called build-dep (for build-dependencies).
<ScottK-laptop> Is libmysqlclient-dev listed there?
<shingi> let me just check
<shingi> its not listed
<jmarsden> shingi: This issue (not having all the necessary build dependencies specified) is one of the things pbuilder is very good at testing for you.  So most likely you should add libmysqlclient-dev to the Build-Dep line and try building the package again.
<shingi> ok, will do that now
<shingi> the build was successfull
<ScottK> After you added that in?
<shingi> yes
<shingi> So what do i do if I want this package to be in ubuntu?
<ScottK> !REVU | shingi
<ubottu> shingi: REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<shingi> I will check it out. I really want to help in this area
<quadrispro> can anyone ACK a sync?
<et3> lintian produced this "E: md4sum: FSSTND-dir-in-usr usr/man/"
<et3> how can I fix the problem?
<azeem> et3: the manpages should go into /usr/share/man, not /usr/man
<azeem> so you will have to fix the upstream build system to correctly install them, or (less preferred) move them there
<et3> azeem: what file do I edit to fix it
<et3> ?
<et3> rules?
<azeem> no, the upstream build system
<et3> what's the first step?
<_ruben> passing some extra options to configure might do the trick depending on upstream's build system
<azeem> no idea what is, probably Makefile.in or so
<et3> alright
<et3> so I should look in the Makefile.in?
<azeem> obviously, we are not looking at the upstream source, so we cannot advise
<azeem> you will have to research it yourself
<et3> you can find it here:  bzr branch lp:md4sum
<et3> is this a big deal?  :
<et3> E: md4sum_0.02.03-0ubuntu0~kolbyheacock1_i386.changes: bad-ubuntu-distribution-in-changes-file jaunty
<et3> I thought jaunty was a good distribution name
<azeem> out-of-date lintian I guess
<et3> alright
<et3> I think I fixed the man dir problem
<et3> i worked. ^^
<et3> the edited file was Makefile.Linux
<pmjdebruijn> can someone please take a look at my new package http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=lensfun ?
<et3> azeem perhaps it's an out of date standards version?  3.7.2 ?
<et3> pmjdebruijn: What do you need people to look at with your package?
<pmjdebruijn> et3: I need to get it approved
<pmjdebruijn> et3: I don't have a specific problem... I'm looking for reviews...
<et3> pmjdebruijn: that's what I thought, I just wanted to make sure.  I can't help you approve the package.
<pmjdebruijn> et3: no problem
<pmjdebruijn> I think my package is in pretty good shape
<et3> ^^ cool
<pmjdebruijn> But of course... I'm not the best judge of that...
<et3> lol.  I am new at packaging
<azeem> et3: what is a problem?
<et3> I want to remove the jaunty-is-not-an-OS error
<azeem> it's not an error
<azeem> your lintian version is just too old
<azeem> so ignore it
<et3> okay
<et3> my package was rejected and now when I try to use dput to re-upload after I fixed the problem, "Already uploaded to ppa.launchpad.net"
<et3> so it doesn't upload.  I'm using the --force option too
<et3> azeem: I'm having a problem again
<pmjdebruijn> et3: check the .upload file?
<et3> what am I checking the upload file fore?
<pochu> you can't upload with the same version number to the ppa
<pochu> you will have to bump the version number in debian/changelog
<pochu> e.g. instead of 1.0-1~ppa1, use 1.0-1~ppa2
<et3> okay
<azeem> pochu: hrm, even when the upload got rejected as et3 said?
<et3> azeem: I fixed what rejected it
<et3> what if I just deleted the .upload files?
<azeem> using --force has the same effect, AIUI
<et3> alright
<et3> we'll see if this worked.  I find it funny this is how I spend half my weekends
<\\localhost> hello folks
<\\localhost> i'm on the last step to make a package, it compiles fine
<\\localhost> but in order to install, it must write in admin acess only dfolders
<\\localhost> i mean '/usr/lib'
<\\localhost> in pbuilder the script isn't allowed to do such a thing
<azeem> you're not supposed to write anywhere above the source directory during package build
<azeem> so you need to install the program at a staging location, usually debian/tmp, and assemble the .deb from there
<\\localhost> oh i see
<azeem> most build systems will obey the DESTDIR variable during installation and install there, so point DESTDIR to $(CURDIR)/debian/tmp
<\\localhost> thats the defaults, you right
<\\localhost> thank you, i'm gonna test
<\\localhost> because i was calling "make install" which install the build in the system
<\\localhost> hmmm the default is calling make from /usr/bin , but i would like to know if the 'make install' from cmake can have a destdir set ? (cmake site is down, that's why i'm asking)
<azeem> cmake obeys DESTDIR, yes
<\\localhost> oh nevermind, since cmake is calling make
<\\localhost> thats because i have set the buildir to build/ (since cmake don't have clean rule) to rm-rf build/ on clean process
<\\localhost> so the CURRDIR mut be set to build to find make rules
<azeem> you need to cd to your build dir in order to run make, rather
<\\localhost> yep
<\\localhost> i've done the fix
<\\localhost> we will see :)
<\\localhost> azeem it works
<\\localhost> thanks for your support
<azeem> cool
<pochu> azeem: oh, I didn't read that part. Then I guess it's not necessary
<azeem> k
<\\localhost> azeem is it possible to specify the package to add a line in a existent conf file on the system ,
<pochu> which conffile do you want to modify?
<\\localhost> php.ini
<\\localhost> its just a line to add like echo "xxx" > /etc/php5/php.ini
<azeem> eh, > doesn't add
<\\localhost> >>*
<azeem> in any case, you're not supposed to touch other packages' conffiles
<\\localhost> ah okay, so it must be the user to do that
<azeem> see whether PHP maybe supports dropping files into /etc/php5.d/
<azeem> or something
<\\localhost> ok i will see then
<\\localhost> thx
<pochu> what's an ICE io error?
<ScottK-laptop> pochu: Internal Compiler Error.  You don't want those.
<pochu> ScottK-laptop: thanks :) that sounds scary
<liw> an ice error can also indicate warm cola. you don't want that either.
<pochu> :-)
<Laney> Requested sponsorship of my first upload into Debian, scary!
<cutout> Hello I have a package for a JAVA application any one interested in reviewing it???
<laga> cutout: put it on REVU
<cutout> It is on review it is name is "monajat"
<cutout> I also have another one "rmconverter"
<et3> Is anyone here?
<geser> perhaps
<et3> if I wanted to make  a package put a file "foo" in a directory /usr/share/foo-files"  how would I do that?
<\\localhost> in the make file
<et3> alright
<\\localhost> in the install rule of makefile
<et3> so make puts it in the debian/DEBIAN location and then in the filesystem?
<\\localhost> to be exact, but maybe there is another ways to do that
<et3> well, I was wondering what the standard way is?
<\\localhost> et3 are you talking about the rules file of dbhelper ?
<geser> if the upstream Makefile doesn't do it for you, you can use dh_install in debian/rules
<et3> hmmmm
<geser> and put something like "foo /usr/share/foo-files/" into the debian/install file (or <package>.install file)
<et3> alright... if I put "/usr/share/foo-files" in the debian/install file and then had a directory like (base_dir)/foo-files, it will automatically copy the files?
<et3> I think I could do it with make... but how do you do it with dh_install?
<\\localhost> geser do you call in the build install section dh_install like dh_install "foo /usr/local/foo" ?
<geser> you call dh_install binary target and dh_install will use the "install" files from debian/ to see where it should copy which file
<\\localhost> i see, thx for the hint
<et3> how does it know?
<et3> are you saying I could just throw a bunch of binaries, fonts, sounds, and pictures and it will organize them into debian packages?
<et3> I don't quite understand.
<geser> it uses the information from the install files from your debian/ dir you provided
<et3> please give me an example and I'll understand
<geser> say you have a font.ttf file in your upstream dir and want it copied to /usr/share/fonts
<et3> you'd put /usr/share/fonts in the debian/install file.  and I'm not sure what to do in the debian/rules.
<geser> so you can either do it with a cp call in debian/rules
<geser> or put a line "font.ttf usr/share/fonts/" into debian/rules and call dh_install in your binary target in debian/rules
<et3> "cp ../fonts/foo.tff /usr/share/fonts/" and "font.ttf usr/share/fonts/" work the same?
<geser> dh_install will look into the install file and cp font.ttf to debian/<package>/usr/share/fonts so it end later in the package (which is build from debian/<package>)
<et3> alright.
<et3> that's very interesting.  thank you.
<et3> That has been the main problem I've had in packaging.
 * kolby is bored
#ubuntu-motu 2008-12-14
<alex_21> Hi, all, I want ot include a package here
<alex_21> How can I do this?
<alex_21> I am stuck zipping up a .deb file. Can someone here help?
* RainCT changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Grab a  merge: http://dad.dunnewind.net http://merges.ubuntu.com | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs
<pmjdebruijn> I have a new package, (which I think is in pretty good shape, althought I'm not the best judge)... Can anybody take a look at it ( http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=lensfun ) and possibly endorse it?
<geser> pmjdebruijn: commented
<pmjdebruijn> geser: thanks
<pmjdebruijn> geser: I'll go and fix that later this afternoon
<slytherin> geser: Just FYI ... I just processed jruby1.1 merge. You were last uploader.
<directhex> is ir worth filing a bug against apps whose UI is too large to work on a netbook?
<sebner> directhex: you may noticed that I acked your syncs. Yes it's part of mono transition but that are normal sync requests so please follow the sync workflow and not only writing part of mono transition so sync it!!!
<directhex> i was sleepy!
<RainCT> heh
<sebner> directhex: no excuses. You also filed a sync request for gnome-rdp. ubuntu has a own package did you check that or just filed a sync request? ;)
<sebner> RainCT: hula hu
<RainCT> o.O
<slytherin> directhex: it depends on the application. is it too important for netbook remix?
<directhex> slytherin, it's, um, freeciv. been tinkering with wife's netbook, put the remix on there, and trying to find netbook-friendly games
<slytherin> directhex: see if wesnoth fits
<directhex> sebner, the debian packager is also upstream. and by the look of it, the ubuntu package has been "maintained" more than "actively maintained" for 2 years
<directhex> slytherin, in the general case, is it worth wishlisting?
<sebner> directhex: I know but you can't just file a sync request saying : Sync it. You have to explain *why* (mono transition is not a reason). I acked it because our packages don't diff that much otherwise we would have to sync it .. Of course we want the new version as well :)
<sebner> *would have to merge it
<sebner> I mean
<directhex> fine. "new upstream from june"!
<directhex> also, from the ubuntu changelog: "after Hardy this should be simply synced." ;)
<slytherin> directhex: yes it is.
<directhex> i wonder whether my freecol "doesn't work on amd64 due to java suckiness" bug ever got closed
<slytherin> directhex: which bug is that?
<directhex> slytherin, bug 264049
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 264049 in freecol "MOAR RAM please" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/264049
<slytherin> directhex: I will forward the bug to debian tonight.
<directhex> know what'd be neat? if a package could be marked as automatically forwarding bugs to debian, in cases where they're maintained by the same people or always synced
 * directhex ponders asking in #lp
<nhandler> Since DIF has still not occurred yet, what should we do about sync-request bugs for packages that will be auto-synced?
<RainCT> nhandler: wait for the package to be auto-synced and then close the bug
<nhandler> RainCT: Is there a reason to wait before closing the bug? The bug is serving no purpose right now. If it were to be closed right now (with a comment), it would show the reporter that they do not need to make these types of reports in the future
<ScottK> directhex: Please don't.  There can also be bugs that are caused by Ubuntu having different versions of depends than Debian, so even if the package is the same, not all bugs in the package automatically belong to Debian.
 * ScottK now notices that was about 2 hours ago.
<hyperair> if i want to relocate some filse in debian/tmp, say debian/tmp/usr/share/codelite/plugins to /usr/lib/codelite/plugins, and then keep the rest of the files installed where they are, what should the .install file look like?
<azeem> hyperair: the second argument in .install can be used to specify a directory to install it, at least at recent dh compat level I think; check the dh_install manpage
<hyperair> azeem: i've got lines "debian/tmp/usr/share/codelite/plugins/* /usr/lib/codelite/plugins", but it still seems to be going back into /usr/share
<iulian> directhex: giver_0.1.8-3_i386.changes ACCEPTED
<hyperair> oh hell. i figured out what was wrong. i forgot to bzr add the files, and they didn't appear in the diff.gz
<jdong> hyperair: lol I just did that for a homework assignment :)
<jdong> I use bzr to manage my homework directory on 6 different systems, and forgot to do a checkin
<hyperair> lol
<jdong> then I used another system to submit the assignment without double-checking the PDF.
<jdong> WHOOPS.
<jdong> "YOUR NAME HERE"
<hyperair> shit!
<jdong> I knew my answers were bad, but not 0/50 bad!
<hyperair> good grief
<hyperair> what happened after that?
<jdong> the TA found my explanation mildly amusing and offered me the chance to submit it again and he'll "see what he can do"
<jdong> It'd be awfully nice if he can give me any credit on it
<hyperair> heheh
<hyperair> well keep your fingers crossed =p
<jdong> :)
<rjune__> jdong: that's hilarious
<jdong> lol it's less hilarious that I lost credit on 1 of 6 homeworks :D
<laga> jdong: a friend of mine has already sent in the .class files for his java assignments twice, instead of the source files
<jdong> haha
<jdong> "It's proprietary"
<laga> heh
<jdong> the assignment system screams at you if what you upload isn't a valid PDF
<jdong> apparently people were sending in the latex .log files :)
<mrooney> Okay, here I go to ideally create my first package with CDBS!
<RainCT> go, mrooney, go :)
<mrooney> Do I use dh-make before using CDBS? I guess I am confused about the pre CDBS steps if any, also maybe the post :)
<RainCT> mrooney: is it a new package?
<mrooney> yes, I am attempting to package one of my python apps that uses distutils, with CDBS
<pochu> mrooney: you can use dh-make, yes
<RainCT> mrooney: Yes, if you want you can run dh_make and choose "b" when it asks you which type of package it is. Another option is to just create the needed files yourself :)
<pochu> mrooney: check --help, it has an option for cdbs packages
<RainCT> mrooney: and see this: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy
<mrooney> pochu: okay thanks!
<mrooney> There doesn't seem to be a complete guide for new packagers, for python apps. I am wrong and if not, shall I document it somewhere?
<fabrice_sp__> Hi. Somebody to review DVDStyler? It's at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=dvdstyler. Thanks!
<pochu> mrooney: check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Python
<hefe_bia> Hi! Anybody in for a review of gebabbel a frontend for gpsbabel? (gpsbabel is a tool for converting geo information file formats) It's in REVU and was prev. advocated by mok0. I think I have fixed the outstanding issues. (See http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=gebabbel)
<jdong> superm1: sigh media packages are fun, aren't they.... :)
<rjune__> no
<Luke> i'm trying to make a deb of a C program which doesn't specify an install target. What is the correct way to handle this?
<mrooney> in my `control` file, what is the right way to list GPL v3 or later,  just "GPL v3 (or later)"
<azeem> mrooney: that's for copyright, not control
<fabrice_sp> Luke: with dh_install in the debian/rules file
<mrooney> azeem: sorry, that's what I meant :) Is that a fine way to write it?
<azeem> mrooney: at the end of the GPLv3 license, there is recommended text for this
<azeem> I think dh_make also installs it
<superm1> jdong, yeah i'm hoping in the end that upstream developer gives and and starts floating patches around so as to allow dynamic linking, but what an ideal world that would be
<mrooney> azeem: well I didn't tell dh_make my license, maybe I should have
<Luke> fabrice_sp: thanks
<jdong> superm1: looking at their development activity I don't think that's going to happen....
<jdong> superm1: I don't think we should be bullying that to happen though.
 * mrooney waves at jdong
 * jdong waves back
<mrooney> jdong: were you the one that did all the vlc upgrading?
<jdong> mrooney: well I was involved but definitely didn't do the bulk of the work
<jdong> the thanks for that goes to the debian packagers :)
<Luke> I'm getting this error when running debuild: "dpkg-source: error: cannot represent change..." what does that mean?
<mrooney> jdong: oh okay, I imagine that must have been intense, thanks for your and everyone elses help in that :)
<fabrice_sp> Luke: because you have binary files there. You should clean everything in the clean target
<Luke> fabrice_sp: the weird thing is, it is starting clean =/
<fabrice_sp> Luke: hmmm. to generate the diff file, debuild scan the files that have changed, and call the clean target before. Perhaps, some binary file are generated there
<Luke> fabrice_sp: they would be under debian/package right?
<fabrice_sp> Luke: could be everywhere. Look for files that has been modified recently
<Luke> oh i see... it is resulting in all these tars in the parent dir
<fabrice_sp> Luke: you ahve tar files in the parent dir?
<Luke> yup
<fabrice_sp> you can check in the original tarball if they are there
<Luke> no in the parent of the src etc as well
<Luke> in the same directory as the .orig
<Luke> ick still had the problems even after deleting all the resulting tars
<fabrice_sp> Luke: if you have the .orig directory, you can compare the files between the 2 directories
<Luke> nothing has changed
<fabrice_sp> Please post the output of the command in a pastebin, and paste the link here
<Luke> sure
<Luke> http://dpaste.com/99055/
<Luke> thanks for your help btw. this is my first deb =)
<Luke> trying to learn so we can use ubuntu instead of centos at work
<fabrice_sp> :-)
<fabrice_sp> you have .o files
<fabrice_sp> in src directory
<Luke> hmm
<fabrice_sp> you should delete them in the clean target
<Luke> you sure found them quick! how did you see this?
<fabrice_sp> :-)
<fabrice_sp> in the log :-)
<fabrice_sp> dpkg-source: error: cannot represent change to circular-application-menu-0.0.52/src/cmmcircularmainmenu.o: binary file contents changed
<Luke> the log also said it ran: rm -f *.o circular-main-menu
<fabrice_sp> yes, but not in src subdirectory
<Luke> its not running the original makefile's clean target?
<Luke> no it is... that's where the rm -f is coming from
<fabrice_sp> yes
<fabrice_sp> but it's seem it still left them behind
<Luke> i just need to make it run a directory up?
<DRebellion> sebner, i've removed the chrpath calls in the latest upload: https://launchpad.net/~simrunbasuita/+archive
<DRebellion> ah
<DRebellion> oops
<Luke> i think it's failing because its running with pwd as debian instead of src
<Luke> ../src i mean
<DRebellion> sebner, http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=cifer . I haven't uploaded this one to my ppa.
<fabrice_sp> Luke: could be also that the Makefile is not complete in the cleaning. It's quite common.
<Luke> i just checked it. it's fine
<Luke> i'm pretty sure its just running in the wrong place
<Luke> though i'm not supposed to change the authors makefile correct?
<fabrice_sp> Luke: you could change it, but by patch
<fabrice_sp> not directly
<Luke> k
<Luke> after cleaning directly and then running debuild again, it worked fine
<fabrice_sp> ok
<mrooney> hmm did I do something really stupid? "debian/rules: line 3: include: command not found"
<Luke> awesome it worked
<mrooney> where I am using the exact rules from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete#Packaging%20Python%20modules%20with%20CDBS
<pochu> mrooney: can you pastebin your debian/rules
<pochu> ?
<mrooney> pochu: ^^
<sebner> DreamThief: k, sry again. I'll make a final review in the next few hours =)
<sebner> argh
<sebner> DreamThief: sry, not for you
<mrooney> I can pastebin the thing I copied from the wiki I just linked, if you want for some reason :)
<pochu> mrooney: try this: http://pastebin.com/m312e8472
<pochu> mrooney: but download the file, don't copy&paste it
<pochu> you may be getting some weird characters...
<mrooney> pochu: oh that seems to have gotten much further, although it looks like I need to install python2.4
<mrooney> is that a dep of cdbs or pycentral or something?
<mrooney> I want to make sure my app isn't depending on it somehow because it only supports 2.5 and 2.6
<mrooney> I think
<pochu> mrooney: what supported versions did you specify in debian/control?
<mrooney> pochu: hm, nothing, maybe that is my problem
<mrooney> that is the one section I was confused on
<mrooney> I am not sure how to specify the deps
<pochu> XS-Python-Version
<Luke> Am i supposed to change the conrol line "Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}" to have the build and package deps or does it resolve that for me with those variables?
<mrooney> pochu: would you recommend ">= 2.5, << 3.0" or "2.5, 2.6"
<mrooney> probably the latter since I don't know about 2.7 or what else they might introduce
<pochu> mrooney: ">= 2.5" should be fine I believe
<pochu> mrooney: there's not going to be a 2.7 release AFAIK, btw
<mrooney> Oh, I thought there was
<mrooney> pochu: but won't >= 2.5 imply it works with 3.0?
<pochu> I may be wrong :)
<pochu> mrooney: yes, but all the archive has that.
<pochu> mrooney: but ">= 2.5, << 3.0" is fine too, so feel free to use that
<pochu> if you know it doesn't work with 3.0
<mrooney> The python UDS session made it sound like Jaunty might not have 2.5
<mrooney> Although it will have 2.6 so I guess that's fine
<pochu> it will have it
<pochu> they talked about dropping support, which would mean it's moved to universe
<pochu> or that's what I understand
<mrooney> oh, right, yeah
<pochu> but 2.4 is still in the archive and a few packages need it, so...
<mrooney> yeah definitely
<mrooney> pochu: now I should also put "XB-Python-Version: ${python:Versions}" after XS-Python-Version?
<pochu> no, put that in the binary package stanza
<pochu> where you have "Depends: " et al
<Luke> fabrice_sp: Am i supposed to change the conrol line "Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}" to have the build and package deps or does it resolve that for me with those variables?
<mrooney> pochu: oh the XS- goes in the source stanza? thanks for all your help by the way :)
<pochu> mrooney: yes. no problem :)
<pochu> mrooney: X is for extra fields (those which are not official), S is to be included in the dsc, B to be in included in the binaries (in the control file), and C to be included in the changes file
<mrooney> I am documenting this as I go so hopefully I can throw up a complete guide for packaging a basic python app somewhere
<pochu> so you can have XS-foo, XC-bar, XSBC-lalala...
<mrooney> ahh that makes sense :)
<pochu> mrooney: cool :)
<pochu> mrooney: btw, is that an application or a module?
<mrooney> pochu: application
<pochu> ok
<mrooney> right now it ships in site-packages, I still have to figure out where the heck it goes, pyshared then symlink to site-packages, or what
<mrooney> I can't seem to get a consistent answer on that
<pochu> it's not meant to be provided as a public module, is it?
<pochu> if so, you should ship it in /usr/share/$package
<mrooney> well, it can be, I don't care, it wouldn't have much use though
<pochu> then ship it in /usr/share/
<mrooney> oh, I seemed to get the impression the pythonic way was to ship to site-packages then the binary just imports and runs
<pochu> you can use "DEB_PYTHON_INSTALL_ARGS_ALL = --install-lib=usr/share/package" in your debian/rules *after* including python-distutils.mk
<pochu> mrooney: well, not really. It's not a public module, so you don't want to pollute the namespace
<mrooney> interesting, hmmm
<mrooney> everyone in #python was very sure site-packages was the right place to go for apps
<mrooney> although they have a more cross-platform bend then packagers
<mrooney> pochu: ideally I want to my setup.py to work on any OS as the app supports almost anything, so I guess it would be nice in that way
<pochu> people running "python setup.py install" will still be able to install it, but on site-packages
<pochu> maybe you could configure it in setup.cfg to install files on /usr/share/foo, but then you only want that on platforms following the FHS :-)
<pochu> not sure if that's possible with setup.cfg though
<pochu> I'm not even sure you want to do that for the upstream build system
<pochu> "DEB_PYTHON_INSTALL_ARGS_ALL = --install-lib=usr/share/package" will just pass "--install-lib=usr/share/package" to the setup.py install call
<pochu> it's like passing --prefix=/usr to autotools' packages
<nellery> does Ubuntu replace locales-all with locales?
<Luke> Am i supposed to change the conrol line "Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}" to have the build and package deps or does it resolve that for me with those variables?
<mrooney> pochu: okay well that's good to know, that seems ideal
<pochu> Luke: what kind of package?
<pochu> Luke: is it a C application?
<Luke> yup
<Luke> pochu: the resulting deb's control seems to not mention any deps
<pochu> it should
<Luke> pochu: those lines automatically resolve deps then? how does it know?
<pochu> I think for shlibs:Depends, it looks at your binaries' NEEDED headers, then looks at the installed shlibs files
<pochu> do you ship binaries in /usr/bin/ or /usr/lib ?
<Luke> i dont know the correct way to move the binary to where it needs to be
<Luke> /usr/bin/ would be correct
<pochu> what build system does upstream use?
<Luke> make
<Luke> there's no config or install target
<Luke> it produces one binary
<pochu> and are you moving it to ./debian/tmp or ./debian/$package ?
<pochu> hmm, wait
<Luke> no where. i'm trying to figure out how to use dh_install to do that. unsuccessfully though
<pochu> maybe you could use dh_install
<pochu> heh
<Luke> yeah i have no idea though. the man page isn't helpful at all
<Luke> it mentions this install file... though I cant find any more on it
<pochu> ok
<pochu> you should put something like this:
<pochu> "path/to/binary usr/bin"
<pochu> in debian/$package.install
<Luke> $package.install?
<pochu> path/to/binary is relative to debian/..
<Luke> are there docs for this somewhere?
<pochu> change "$package" with your binary package's name :)
<Luke> ah
<pochu> dh_install should explain it
<pochu> dh_install(1), I mena
<pochu> mean*
<pochu> bah :)
<Luke> gotcha... i wasn't getting the whole $package thing
<Luke> it looks like you can just say usr/bin and it will do it?
<pochu> if you have just one binary package, you can call it debian/install
<Luke> ??
<pochu> that would work if your package is compiling the binary in debian/tmp/usr/bin/
<Luke> that's this tmp you keep talking about?
<pochu> yes
<Luke> what's*
<pochu> well
<Luke> this documentation is really terrible. I can't believe so many people have figured this out.
<pochu> some build systems will build binaries, then install the files in debian/tmp (or debian/$package)
<Luke> the make system doesn't have an install target
<pochu> then just ignore it :)
<Luke> so i'm not sure what it does with the resulting binaries
<pochu> you can look at building it directly
<pochu> say
<pochu> $ make
<pochu> and look where is the binary
<Luke> yeah it's in src/binary
<pochu> then put "src/binary usr/bin" in debian/install
<pochu> and call dh_install in debian/rules
<Luke> src/binary is relative to the untarred folder?
<pochu> yes
<Luke> awesome i'll try this
<Luke> ah cool shlibdeps outputted a ton of crap now
<Luke> worked! thanks pochu!
<pochu> Luke: cool :) you're welcome
<Luke> now i'm going to work on making it pull from svn. there's no release for this yet
<pochu> create a get-orig-source target in debian/rules for that
<pochu> that's the preferred way of doing it
<Luke> pochu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete#Solutions
<Luke> i've done that for svn... but where does my debian folder go then?
<Luke> just package-emptydir/debian then?
<pochu> Luke: you should create a tarball without the debian/ folder
<Luke> I did that
<pochu> then I don't get the question :)
<Luke> but where does the rules file go then?
<pochu> sorry, I don't understand what you mean
<Luke> where do I put the rules file?
<pochu> inside the new tarball?
<Luke> i dont have a tar... this is from source
<pochu> hmm
<pochu> you have a package-1.0/ dir right now
<pochu> with a debian/ dir inside it
<Luke> yeah exactly! what goes in the package-1.0 dir besides the debian dir?
<Luke> nothing rigth? it will just be empty?
<pochu> and a control, rules, install files etc inside package-1.0/debian/
<Luke> yeah
<Luke> but in the package-1.0 there will only be debian/* right?
<pochu> in the tarball there should only be the upstream sources
<Luke> then I populate debian/../
<pochu> and the debian/ dir will be in the diff.gz
<Luke> there is no tarball yet
<Luke> i'm making this from svn now
<pochu> you create one with debian/rules::get-orig-source :)
<pochu> Luke: so for example:
<Luke> then where does debain/rules go?
<pochu> nowhere
<pochu> you do:
<Luke> then how will I run it?
<pochu> ./debian/rules get-orig-source
<Luke> wait one sec
<pochu> and then a package_1.0.orig.tar.gz is created in ..
<Luke> what is ./ in this case?
<pochu> debian/*, src/*, etc
<Luke> no that's what's in ./
<Luke> i'm asking what ./ *is*
<Luke> let me try and explain
<pochu> Luke: please :)
<pochu> btw, I created this get-orig-source for one of my packages, it gets the sources from svn: http://svn.debian.org/viewsvn/python-apps/packages/emesene/tags/1.0~r1137-1/debian/rules?rev=759&view=auto
<Luke> the guide defines the debian dir to be in a subdir of the original tar output. so debian depends on the output of a tar. but if i have no tar, I don't know where to put the debian file. so far, you've told me it goes no where and also that it goes in package-1.0/
<pochu> oh
<Luke> i know how to write the rules target for svn
<pochu> Luke: I think I understand it now :)
<Luke> i just dont know how it will be called by the script
<pochu> yes, an empty package-1.0/ dir is fine
<Luke> ah ok
<pochu> so you do:
<pochu> $ mkdir package-1.0
<pochu> $ cp -a debian/ package-1.0/
<pochu> $ cd package-1.0/ && make debian/rules get-orig-source
<pochu> $ cd -
<Luke> wait a sec...
<Luke> how will PPA know to run make debian/rules get-orig-source?
<pochu> $ ls package*tar.gz
<pochu> and you will have it
<pochu> it won't
<pochu> well, you could tell it to do it in the build target or something...
<pochu> but that's not a good idea
<pochu> you should run it yourself, build a tarball, and use that one
<Luke> ah ok
<Luke> gotcha
<Luke> so i basically fake a release to build from then
<pochu> yup
<Luke> is there a way to pull the svn rev into the tarballs name?
<mrooney> do I not use jaunty as the ubuntu version in the changelog for new packages? Should I use intrepid for some reason?
<JontheEchidna> New packages should use the latest development version in the changelog
<Luke> what do I put after the ~ if it's from svn and it's for ppa?
<Luke> ~svn~ppa1?
<JontheEchidna> ~svnblah~ppa
<Luke> thanks
<JontheEchidna> You're welcome
<Luke> so no ppa version then?
<Luke> or can it be like 0.1-1~svn52~ppa1 ?
<JontheEchidna> oh, of course you can have a ppa version :)
<mrooney> JontheEchidna: well I'm getting "bad-ubuntu-distribution-in-changes-file jaunty", do the intrepid packages not know about jaunty?
<JontheEchidna> just ignore it, the intrepid packages don't know about jaunty
<mrooney> JontheEchidna: oh I see, lintian errors aren't fatal, just noticed, thanks
<JontheEchidna> yeah, that got me the first time too
<JontheEchidna> I thought it failed
 * directhex tinkers with requestsync
<Luke> pochu: should the get-orig-source target also untar the contents downloaded from svn to the pwd ?
<pochu> Luke: no, just create the .orig.tar.gz
<Luke> then I unzip that over my empty app dir?
 * directhex goes requestsync crazy
<pochu> Luke: then unpack it, and copy your debian/ dir inside the unpacked tarball
<Luke> k
<mrooney> I think it was successful!
<directhex> RainCT, feel like doing the mono 2.0 transition on gbrainy?
<RainCT> directhex: I don't know why but those last weeks I'm extremely lazy :P.
<RainCT> directhex: What's the necessary change in debian/rules for CDBS?
<directhex> RainCT, depends on configure.ac
<RainCT> ah, found the wiki page
<directhex> RainCT, http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DebianMonoGroup/Mono20Transition#head-67c13a005dab7f510b0fd1ee8db7a30689e89669 has a cdbs example
<RainCT> directhex: "grep mcs configure.in" gives the same output as on the wiki. What does this mean?
<mrooney> okay so, I am upstream and I'm packaging something for ubuntu, I am basically done, but realized I want to change my .desktop file
<mrooney> do I do a new release and copy over /debian ?/
<directhex> RainCT, it said "AC_PATH_PROG(CSC, mcs, no)"?
<mrooney> I assume I shouldn't just change it in the tar and source
<RainCT> mrooney: yep
<RainCT> directhex: AC_PATH_PROG(MCS, gmcs)
<directhex> RainCT, DEB_CONFIGURE_EXTRA_FLAGS += MCS=/usr/bin/csc
<mrooney> RainCT: is it easy to get an update in? I need a translation sync, I could do it now, but I think I might as well get this approved then do one, for the experience of an update
<mrooney> is that reasonable?
<pochu> mrooney: sure
<pochu> once the package is in the archive, updates to it are easy to get in
<pochu> unless you introduce new features and we are in feature freeze
<RainCT> directhex: OK. The wiki says "+= CSC="
<RainCT> directhex: and the grep also says "CSC=gmcs", so is it CSC or MCS?
<directhex> RainCT, whichever is found by grep
<RainCT> AC_PATH_PROG(MCS, gmcs)
<RainCT> CSC=gmcs
<RainCT> directhex: it says that
<directhex> oh, hrm, urgh.
<RainCT> heh
<directhex> which one does the makefile actually use?
<directhex> MCS or CSC
<RainCT> directhex: grep gives those matches in Makefile.in:   MCS = @MCS@     CSC = @CSC@           CSC_DEFINES = @CSC_DEFINES@
<directhex> &*^%
<directhex> sodding upstreams
<RainCT> hehehe
 * RainCT can poke upstream if there's any problem
<directhex> yeah, there's a problem, the compiler is hard-coded!
<directhex> imagine if configure read CC - then manually set CXX=g++-3.4
<RainCT> uhm.. there's not a single reference to 2gmcs" in Makefile.in, though
<directhex> yeah, but configure is forcing "CSC=gmcs"
<directhex> which is Bad(tm)
<RainCT> Ah, right. Let's see if he is online
<RainCT> nope, I'll drop him a mail then
<RainCT> directhex: how urgent is the transition?
<directhex> RainCT, well, all apps need to be done before the libs can be done, and libs need to be done before jaunty shrinks in install size
<RainCT> directhex: so, how urgent is it? ;P
<RainCT> (to know if it's worth patching or better see if he will release a new version anytime soon)
<directhex> RainCT, i'd like to say apps will be done within a fortnight.
<RainCT> alright
<RainCT> directhex: to be sure that I got it right, configure.in should check if CSC is already defined before overwriting it?
<directhex> RainCT, or do exactly the same as it does with MCS, i.e. use AC_PATH_PROG
<directhex> RainCT, or, even  better, stop existing - why define the same compiler in 2 vars?
<RainCT> directhex: ok, thanks
 * RainCT has emailed upstream telling him about this and asking if he is going to release soon or if I should just patch the file for now
#ubuntu-motu 2009-12-07
<magdalena> hello\
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, ping?
<dholbach> good morning
<poolie> lifeless (or anyone): when james_w says "updated package targeted to -proposed" what does that mean?
<poolie> in what way is the package, as opposed to the upload, targeted to -proposed?
<persia> poolie: the targeted suite for an upload is typically defined in the most recent entry of the debian/copyright file in the package.  It's possible to override it in various ways during package construction, but the tools don't do this by default.
<jmarsden> persia: Most recent entry of the debian/changelog file... right?
<persia> jmarsden: Right.
<poolie> oh so that can just change from karmic to karmic-proposed for example?
<poolie> hello btw
<persia> poolie: Right.  karmic is closed to upload.  Best to change in the changelog rather than faking it, just so that the code has the appropriately documented history.
<poolie> ok thanks
<Rhonda> hmm. Now it's dec 7th, I was told that I can expect the CoC 1.0 on the 5th. Any reason for why it's still not there? :/
<Rhonda> https://launchpad.net/codeofconduct that is, still links the old CoC :/
<Laney> Rhonda: I got some bugmail over the weekend saying it was fixed in launchpad-devel
<dholbach> Laney: it's on staging
<Laney> indeed it is on edge
<dholbach> ah ok
<Laney> dunno when the next rollout to production is
<jpds> 16th.
<Laney> \o
<Rhonda> Laney, dholbach, jpds: Thanks for the heads-up :)
<dholbach> no worries
<rc55> Are universe packages considered untested / unsupported?
<jpds> They're supported and tested by the community.
<alkisg> Can I somehow share code between my package and its postrm script?
<alkisg> E.g. afaik I can't include other scripts from my-package.postrm script... I can only do that from the .prerm script, right?
<persia> alkisg: The trick is that at the time the postrm runs, the package has been removed from the system.
<alkisg> persia: right... :( so could I do the opposite? Have a function in the .postrm script, and call it from a regular script of mine? Can I rely on /var/lib/dpkg/info/sch-server.postrm being there? (I guess not, I just want to verify it :))
<persia> I don't actually know.  I suppose you might be able to do that, but I'd not want to rely on it.  What are you trying to accomplish?
<alkisg> There's a purging function that would be ran on postrm, but the user may also want to run it without removing the package
<alkisg> And I was trying to see if there's some way to not duplicate code
<persia> What does the purging function do?
<alkisg> Remove some files in /etc/ (non-conffiles), un-registers some settings (e.g. in /etc/ssh/sshd_config) ...
<persia> Your package is ssh?
<alkisg> No, it just tries to help the user configure some servers (sshd, apache etc) so it writes on other packages files :D
<soren> /etc/ssh/sshd_config is not a conffile.
<alkisg> Not the best thing to do, but I don't think there's another way...
<alkisg> soren: right, I just put some entries there and remove them when my package is purged
<soren> alkisg: My comment was meant for persia, actually :) I knew where he was going.
<alkisg> Ah, sorry, I don't quite get it yet
<persia> alkisg: I do believe that is in contravention to policy, but 10.7.4 might offer a loophole
 * alkisg looks...
<persia> That said, I don't think you want to do that as a shared function.
<soren> 10.7.4 is about packages that offer a utility to change their config isn't it?
<persia> soren: 10.7.4 has a section about sharing configuration files
<persia> It has "The maintainer scripts must not alter a conffile of any package, including the one the scripts belong to."
<persia> But it seems to be looser for non-conffile configuration files.
<soren>  The owning package should also provide a program that the other packages may use to modify the configuration file.
<persia> alkisg: So, anyway, back to my line of reasoning.  Is there a case where you would want to preserve the modifications to /etc/ssh/sshd_config, etc. when your package isn't installed?
<persia> soren: Right, but it's only a should.
<soren> meh
<persia> heh
<alkisg> persia: e.g. my package puts the server ssh keys to the client so that the teacher has complete control over the client PCs. It also does a lot of other stuff, messing around with configuration files (non conffiles, mostly). Now, it's possible that some teachers doesn't want all 100% of the settings I do for him, so I'd like to allow him to undo some changes without uninstalling the whole package
<persia> alkisg: careful about the "mostly" with the non-conffiles bit: touching those violates 10.7.4
<persia> alkisg: I think it's a good idea to have a purge, but I'd run that at uninstall, rather than purge.
<persia> It's not necessarily safe to assume that the modifications are applicable after the package is removed (even if the package is not yet purged)
<alkisg> persia: I know, but I couldn't find any other way to make it easy for teachers that don't have support tech around. Would you have some idea that would help here?
<persia> So, stick it in your prerm
<alkisg> I don't want to remove the settings on plain package removal, because most times the teacher will want to keep them
<alkisg> Ah, you mean prerm / purge... hm... right
<persia> alkisg: Sure.  Modify the packages that provide the conffiles to make them non-conffiles (which basically means creating a configuration file management mechanism)
<alkisg> I'd hate to have to do that for every version of openssh-server, apache2, php, etc etc that comes out
<persia> alkisg: Right.  The difference between uninstalled and purged is tricky to get right.
<persia> alkisg: No, just for all the ones in the repo, and document it well as best practice for future maintained versions.
<persia> If you work with the relevant Debian maintainers, this tends not to be complicated.
<persia> soren: Just as a counter-example to "The owning package should also provide a program that the other packages may use to modify the configuration file.", many packages provide the management functionality thorough a conf.d mechanism so that other packages don't have to have anything special in the postinst.
<alkisg> Sorry, I don't get this last one. Suppose I want to do this:
<alkisg> sed -i -e 's/MaxStartups 20:30:60/#MaxStartups 10:30:60/' /etc/ssh/sshd_config
<alkisg> How should I do it?
<soren> persia: in that case they're not sharing a configuration file.
<alkisg> (that's on postrm, and I do the opposite on postinst)
<persia> soren: depends on how conf.d is implemented.  I've seen cases where cat is used :)
<soren> persia: Ah, right. I may actually be guilty of something like that :)
<persia> soren: Actually, I suppose that appropriate implementation with cat would be to cat into /var/cache/${package}/conffile and target that or something similarly wonky, but I may be mistaken.
<soren> persia: Sounds sound.
<soren> :)
<persia> alkisg: Ask yourself two questions: 1) why should the value not be 20:30:60 for every installation, and 2) is there a way that ssh could read a config produced from a collection of files rather than a single file (as does, say, apache).
<persia> alkisg: If the value could reasonably *always* be set, arrange for it to be changed by default.
<alkisg> persia: it'd be a bless if all the packages I was trying to mess with provided a conf.d directory, or even if they were accepting proposals about default values. Unfortunately, I don't think that's feasible (at least for a newbie developer/teacher like me) :-/
<persia> If not, prepare a configuration file management system (there are several extent, with apt, cron, and apache all being interesting examples) that allows you to place a file containing the desired configuration change separate from the files provided by the managing package.
<persia> alkisg: This is Ubuntu.  Everything is subject to proposals, by anyone willing to defend their reasoning.
<persia> Changing defaults tends to be fairly easy.  Typical successful procedure is to find relevant developers on IRC, and chat about it a bit to understand what needs researching, and then file a bug with the proposed change, rationale, and other support from the research.
<alkisg> I've done that many times, and I was succesful on some of them. But only some.
<persia> Implementation of configuration file management mechanisms are often gleefully accepted by the relevant Debian maintainers, unless there's some specific reason why doing so may break the package.
<alkisg> There are times where "good defaults for schools" aren't "good defaults for everybody"..
<alkisg> And unfortunately, I only have some hours to invest on this per day. Implementing file management mechanisms for other packages would divert me from my real purpose, helping teachers...
 * alkisg shrugs
<persia> alkisg: In those cases, you want the configuration management facility.  Having already taken the first path, you're well armed with arguments as to why the defaults should differ under differing circumstances in common enough cases that it makes sense to be able to alter them programatically.
<persia> alkisg: Don't discount yourself.  A few hours a day is many more than many people have to spend on this stuff.  Also, there are some fairly easy to implement conf.d mechanisms (e.g. the weak cat implementation I described earlier).
<alkisg> I'm trying to push changes upstream or to package maintainers wherever I think it'll be easily accepted, but I have to make do when that's not possible .... :(
<alkisg> persia: thanks a lot for your advice, and your time :)
<persia> alkisg: And thank you for spending time to make Ubuntu better for teachers.  I often hear favorable reports from educators I know, and I presume that's in part from what you've done.
<alkisg> :)
<thekorn> hello MOTUs! if anybody of you has a bit of spare time, can you please have a look at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/python-fusepy ?
<thekorn> thanks you so much ;)
 * Yagisan sighs
 * Yagisan is sure buildbot hates him
 * slytherin kicks buildbot for hating Yagisan
<Yagisan> thanks slytherin
<Yagisan> I think it needs a few more
<Yagisan> just until it actually starts working
<slytherin> Yagisan: what problem are you facing?
<Yagisan> slytherin, I just reported bug #493575
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 493575 in buildbot "Buildbot master generates a setupBuild exception when attempting to run a builder" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/493575
<Yagisan> slytherin, in a nutshell - it crashes
<Yagisan> slytherin, and google didn't help :/
<slytherin> I was confused. I thought you were calling out build servers as buildbot. I did not know you were referring to buildbot software.
<feasty> When doing some bug fixes is it preferable to do multiple fixes in one package or one for each bug ID? I have a fix done but there is another one for the same package I think I may work on after but wondered if I should do them together in one or separate them?
<directhex> feasty, multiple bugs can be closed by a single upload, so work with that in mind
<Yagisan> slytherin, not a problem - although the reason for sighing was that I had build 16 slaves machines before I noticed the "bug"
<slytherin> feasty: multiple fixes in one upload is nice. That means users will get more bug fixes in single download.
<feasty> directhex, slytherin ok thanks for that. I'll try and get this other one in the same upload then. Thanks again.
<Yagisan> O-o wow, it's been 3 and a half years since my last upload to Ubuntu
<mok0> Testing... 1, 2, 3, testing
<ScottK> mok0: You're on.
<mok0> :)
 * geser waits on what mok0 has to say
<mok0> (uhm, just testing... to see what my nick was :-] )
<geser> mok0: that's easy: your nick is mok0 :)
<mok0> Hehe :-P
<MenZa> Are there plans to package Pidgin 2.6.4 in Karmic?
<Laney> pidgin is routinely backported
<Laney> (if someone does the work)
<micahg> MenZa: there's a pidgin developers ppa
<micahg> https://launchpad.net/~pidgin-developers/+archive/ppa
<MenZa> micahg: Aye, I found that
<MenZa> It was more of a question whether it was going to be packaged, er, properly for Ubuntu
<LaserJock> what's a good programmatic way to tell if a package is in main or universe?
<pochu> doesn't 'apt-cache show' say it?
<jpds> LaserJock: apt-cache policy|madison <package>, rmadison <package>,
<achadwick> apt-cache show $PKG | grep -q 'Section: universe'
<LaserJock> but I need to do it programmatically, i.e. in a shell script
<LaserJock> ok, that's pretty good
<achadwick> '^Section: *universe' for a little more robustness maybe
<pochu> '^Section: universe$' rather? :)
<geser> no, this will fail at "Section: universe/devel"
<pochu> ah right
<CarlFK> what is the name of the script that converts diff files to debpatch ?
<pochu> debpatch?
<CarlFK> pochu: the patch file format found in debian/patches
<geser> CarlFK: dpatch as patch system or an other patch system?
<CarlFK> i think debpatch is the name of the scrip I am looking for :)
<dholbach> debdiff maybe?
<CarlFK> maybe..
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/Debdiff
<geser> what are you wanting to do?
<CarlFK> get a gtk patch applied to karmic
<mok0_> What's the deal with that Python discussion on dd?
<kklimonda> mok0_: now there is a discussion about python on dd when I've unsubscribed? ;)
<kklimonda> damn
<mok0_> kklimonda: yep. I've followed it with shock and awe
<kklimonda> mok0_: it's a discussion about why isn't python 2.6 in unstable yet?
<mok0_> kklimonda: you got it
<mok0_> The maintainer is getting many coarse words
<mok0_> and the anger is spilling over onto Canonical
<micahg> don't know if bug 493649 would interest anyone
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 493649 in soyuz "include estimated time to build in accepted email" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/493649
<ScottK> There isn't any new information in the d-d thready on Python 2.6 except that some people are trying to get things resolved in private.
<ScottK> thready/thread
<mok0_> ... but what's the problem upholding the upload?
<av`> mok0, missing maintainer's communication and willing to do it :)
<mok0_> av`: that doesn't make sense
<av`> mok0, I know, but it's what is currently happening
<mok0_> Perhaps Debian should sync from Ubuntu, LOL
<av`> don't propose that or you gonna get flamed like hell :)
<ScottK> Yeah.  Please don't.
<mok0_> I wont
<highvoltage> hi. any REVU admins around?
<akheron> motus around? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/jansson
<kklimonda> why does opts="uversionmangle=s/(b[0-9]+)$/~\1/" change 1.80b1 into 1.80~1 ?
<geser> too less escaping perhaps?
<geser> try "~\\1"
<kklimonda> hmm.. thanks
<kklimonda> and the second question - if I work on an update to the package and in the meantime the never version is released can I add the new changelog entry and leave the old one UNRELEASED?
<ScottK> I generally prefer to merge them.
<av`> kklimonda, I would say yes, saw some packages with UNRELEASED
<av`> kklimonda, just be sure your current changelog's entry is targeted to the right place
<av`> kklimonda, just be sure your current changelog's entry is targeted to the right place = otherwise it will be hopefully rejected
<kklimonda> ScottK: but is this a matter of preference or is there a rule somewhere for ubuntu developers? in Debian I've seen some UNRELEASED entries but there every package have a maintainer so it's his choice
<av`> kklimonda, leaving UNRELEASED in Ubuntu doesnt make sense
<av`> kklimonda, it is on Debian but not on Ubuntu
<av`> kklimonda, so merging would be nice as ScottK suggested
<kklimonda> av`: why it doesn't make sense? Just curious
<av`> kklimonda, packages are not personally maintained here, so someone at the next revision upload will start asking 'hey, why did you left UNRELEASED here?'
<av`> kklimonda, also UNRELEASED is quite alwais meant for vcs purposes
<av`> kklimonda, e.g for multiple maintainers and for big packages with big changes, having a small package with UNRELEASED is usually not the best, that's why merging should be the right thing to do in these cases
<av`> but anyway really up to you
<av`> kklimonda, :)
<kklimonda> heh
<ScottK> kklimonda: debian/changelog is a record of the changes of the package in the archive.  Almost never does it make sense to track intermediate changes that never got into the archive.
<kklimonda> ScottK: so UNRELEASED is used by developers who want to keep a track of their changes but aren't willing to move to vcs?
<ScottK> kklimonda: Usually when I've seen it in the archive, I'd consider it a mistake.
<ScottK> IMO it's used by lazy maintainers who won't go to the effort to make a proper changelog entry.
<kklimonda> ScottK: ok, thanks :)
<pting> can someone confirm this for me as a bug... apt-get source php5 && cd php5-5.2.10.dfsg.1 && ./debian/rules configure-cli-stamp && ./debian clean ... errors with: Patch suhosin.patch does not remove cleanly (refresh it or enforce with -f) make: *** [unpatch] Error 1 i'm on karmic amd64
<ScottK> Yes.  It's a bug.
<pting> cool, i guess i'll submit it
<pting> yeah, my first bug creation https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/php5/+bug/493761 ... it's beautiful
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 493761 in php5 "php5: build from source: Patch suhosin.patch does not remove cleanly after running configure-* rules" [Undecided,New]
<Flannel> What's the rationale behind "recommends" being treated as required for universe/main/etc classification stuff?
<ScottK> Flannel: Look at the policy manual at the definition of Recommends.  I think it's pretty self evident.
<Flannel> ScottK: Ah, thanks
<MTecknology> Time to learn how to package...
<Amaranth> MTecknology: you guys getting any snow?
<mdc_laptop> where can i find info about packaging a openoffice extensions? (in this case a better dictionary)
<RoAkSoAx> Hey guys, is there automatic renaming from XX/python2.6/site-packages to XX/python2.6/dist-packages ??
<kklimonda> RoAkSoAx: automatic?
<RoAkSoAx> kklimonda, as in during build process something that is in  XX/python2.6/site-packages will be renamed to XX/python2.6/dist-packages
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, during build process something that is in  XX/python2.6/site-packages will be renamed automatically to XX/python2.6/dist-packages ??
<ScottK> RoAkSoAx: It depends.  Often yes.  I can't promise it in all cases.
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, so it would be better to not rely on that, and just do whatever change is needed to make it install directly into XX/python2.6/dist-packages ??
<ScottK> RoAkSoAx: No, test and see if it works without customization and if it does, be happy.  If not, then do that.
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, ok, awesome. Thanks :)
<pting> i'm trying to build php5 from source with some custom patches, how do i build a specific .deb file without building it? for example, how would i only build the deb for the cgi build?
<dtchen> cjwatson: hi, do you mind if I work with bddebian on the libsdl1.2 merge from experimental? The ALSA and PulseAudio backends are in serious need of help, and that work has been done in experimental's upload.
#ubuntu-motu 2009-12-08
<cjwatson> dtchen: please go ahead - my change to libsdl1.2 was just a rebuild, and I don't really want to merge it
<dtchen> cjwatson: thanks
<MTecknology> Amaranth: ya, idk how much
<EagleScreen> hi
<EagleScreen> debuild -S -sd always give me error
<EagleScreen> see plEASE http://pastebin.com/d65b07399
<RoAkSoAx> EagleScreen, I guess that you want to do: debuild -S -sa instead of debuild -S -sd
<EagleScreen> may be, but it gives the same error
<EagleScreen> i have tried with two completly different packages
<ajmitch> do you have make installed?
<ajmitch> or is ~/devel on a special filesystem?
<EagleScreen> yes
<EagleScreen> cheking it
<EagleScreen> ohhh
<ajmitch> mounted noexec?
<EagleScreen> ~/devel is a link to a directory in a ntfs-3g partition
<ajmitch> right, that could be problematic
<ajmitch> I'm not sure of the state of NTFS stuff, whether it can be mounted exec (probably can), and if everything will work
<dtchen> ok, who has a softmodem on HDA?
<dtchen> i.e., has sl-modem-daemon or hsfmodem installed
<ajmitch> hm
 * dtchen squashes more PA bugs
<ajmitch> not sure how my modem is hooked up in the laptop
<ajmitch> looks to be HDA, though I don't have any dialup account to test with
<EagleScreen> ok, now the problem is this other one http://pastebin.com/d2d71b131
<ajmitch> ran sudo apt-get build-dep konversation?
<EagleScreen> just the same error
<EagleScreen> and is it really necessary to just build the source package?
<ajmitch> when the source package needs certain packages to run its clean target in debian/rules, then yes
<ajmitch> most often with things like quilt or dpatch
<ScottK> EagleScreen: You need a newer pkg-kde-tools
<ajmitch> thanks ScottK, I was about to suggest #kubuntu-devel would know more :)
<EagleScreen> thanks ScottK, will check it
<ScottK> EagleScreen: It's also a bug that the version require for pkg-kde-tools aren't specified properly in the package.
<EagleScreen> 0.4.11uubntu7 is mine
<ScottK> You need the one from lucid
<EagleScreen> also debhelper from lucid :\
<ScottK> I don't think so, but maybe
<EagleScreen> yes it told me it
<EagleScreen> thanks you guys
<EagleScreen> see u tomorrow (may be)
<MTecknology> What section would this fall under? https://edge.launchpad.net/ricoh-r5u87x
<RAOF> MTecknology: Having a look at http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-archive.html#s-subsections suggests... video?  It's for webcams, which are about the video.
<MTecknology> RAOF: thanks
<MTecknology> I'm trying to bui;d this package but it wants the authors pgp key. I'm only packaging it for them. Where does debuild pick the email it's going to look for the pgp key of?
<maco> MTecknology: $DEBEMAIL
<maco> and i would assume that's package author...
<maco> because its just for debian/changelog
<maco> also $DEBFULLNAME
<MTecknology> maco: thanks.. and for this? Enter passphrase: gpg: gpg-agent is not available in this session
<maco> start gpg-agent
<MTecknology> thanks :)
<MTecknology> start: Unknown job: gpg-agent
<MTecknology> seems to have signed fine anyway
<jmarsden> MTecknology: You don't need the agent, it just avoids the need to repeatedly enter the passphrase for multiple signings
<maco> MTecknology: oh its not an upstart job. i meant the verb "start" not the command start
<MTecknology> thanks :)
<MTecknology> this packaging thing doesn't seem as scary as it did 30min ago
<maco> ^_^
<MTecknology> Any ideas why this hates me? http://paste.ubuntu.com/337038/
<MTecknology> debuild -S ran through w/o complaints
<mrooney> I'm using a very simple debian/rules to invoke cdbs/pycentral, where can I start debugging if "python setup.py install" ships my package correctly in dist-packages symlinked to pyshared, but installing the generated deb doesn't create the package in dist-packages?
<jmarsden> MTecknology: Well, obvious question... did you do a pbuilder create to set up that chroot earlier?
<MTecknology> nope
<jmarsden> Then that's why the error message says you need to do so.... :)
<MTecknology> jmarsden: I'm trying to follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Basic
<jmarsden> And it doesn't tell you to set up your pbuilder chroot before you use it????
<MTecknology> jmarsden: this? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot
<jmarsden> MTecknology: More like https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete#The%20Personal%20Builder:%20pbuilder
<ScottK> mrooney: Does your package declare with python versions the binary supports in X-B-Python-Version
<jmarsden> You seem to be using a partial version of the Guide which lacks some info??  Not sure about that, I always use the Complete one :)
<MTecknology> jmarsden: i  liked the word Basic in the title... :P
<jmarsden> For me that is more a reminder of 10 PRINT "HELLO"   20 GOTO 10    "BASIC" :)
<MTecknology> :P
<MTecknology> jmarsden: so that creates a very minimal virtual environment that's clean for building packages?
<maco> pbuilder!
<MTecknology> maco: hurray!?
<jmarsden> Yes.  See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<maco> use it!
<jmarsden> MTecknology: and after that see http://wiki.debian.org/PbuilderTricks
<MTecknology> I wonder how long it'll take to setup the environment
<jmarsden> MTecknology: It is a *very* helpful way to check that you have your dependency stuff correct before uploading packages to a PPA or to Ubuntu itself.
<jmarsden> MTecknology: Minutes if you have a fast Internet connection.
<MTecknology> we're throttled here
<MTecknology> dakota state uni kinda sucks
<jmarsden> I'm spoiled... 10Mbits/sec down from Verizon FIOS here :)
<mrooney> ScottK: Hm, I think? http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mrooney/wxbanker/packaging-0.6/annotate/head%3A/control
<MTecknology> I think we're
<mrooney> I'm honestly not 100% what ${python:Versions} means
<MTecknology> I think we're 'supposed' to get 2Mbit down but the reality is ~60Kb/s 80% of the time
<jmarsden> Ewww.  At 60kbits/sec creating a fresh chroot could take a while.
<MTecknology> Ti's on I: Retrieving net-tools
<MTecknology> It's*
<jmarsden> I only notice that text if it fails to find something (usually a Debian sid one when that happens!).
<jmarsden> Although right now Lucid is in a weird state (not for a base pbuilder, but X is all weird and broken if you update Lucid today).
<ScottK> mrooney: That should be correct.  BTW, you don't need the <<3.0 in XS-Python-Versions.  Thats assumed.
<mrooney> ScottK: oh okay, is that a generic major version assumption, or specific to python?
<MTecknology> ok - so I got further - any idea what I screwed up on this time?
<jmarsden> MTecknology: pastebin?
<MTecknology> http://paste.ubuntu.com/337044/
<MTecknology> sorry
<jmarsden> I'm good but not *that* good :)
<MTecknology> :P
<jmarsden> Your package needs debhelper version 7 but you did not include it in your Build-Depends: line in debian/control, most likely.
<ScottK> mrooney: specific to python
<MTecknology> jmarsden: Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 7)
<MTecknology> jmarsden: does my package actually need that or is it jsut an example?
<jmarsden> If you have debian/compat containing the number 7, your package needs that (so they match).
<mrooney> ScottK: okay. My previous release works fine, I've made more changes since then to setup.py than debian/ so I guess I should look there, but since it setup.py --install's fine, it seems logical to suspect my packaging
<jmarsden> I can't tell whether your package truly uses debhelper 7 features without reading all of your debian/rules file...
<MTecknology> jmarsden: http://paste.ubuntu.com/337047/
<jmarsden> Doesn't look like it needs dh7 specifics to me, but if you are following the guide and it said you should create debian/compat with a 7 in it, then... you can stick with the guide.  You need some sort of Build-Depends: dephelper    obviously, the only question is whether you really need 7.
<jmarsden> *debhelper
<jmarsden> I'd just add it, for a first package.
<MTecknology> actually the guide said 5
<MTecknology> dh_make just defaulted to 7
<jmarsden> Well, then you could make it 5 in both places if you want.
<MTecknology> *debhelper ?
<jmarsden> As opposed to dephelper which is what I typed earlier.
<jmarsden> *foo usually means a type correction
<jmarsden> *typo correction :)
<jmarsden> if you see what I mean :)
<MTecknology> ya
<MTecknology> but I'm lost now..
<MTecknology> Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 7)
<jmarsden> Sure, just do it.
<MTecknology> that's what dh_make made by default
<MTecknology> Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 5)
<jmarsden> Unless you need the package to build on older versions of Debian and Ubuntu, 7 is fine.
<MTecknology> That's what the wiki says - but it's not regularly updated
<MTecknology> ok
<jmarsden> Exactly.
<MTecknology> so what was the fail?
<jmarsden> Oh sorry my bad... wait a second...
<MTecknology> I need to run off really soon but I'm hoping I can have this finished soon enough :)
<jmarsden> Make it Build-Depends: debhelper (>=7), pkg-config
<MTecknology> with the help of smart people
<jmarsden> Fail was that it didn't have pkg-config around
<MTecknology> still fails
<MTecknology> !info debhelper
<ubottu> debhelper (source: debhelper): helper programs for debian/rules. In component main, is optional. Version 7.3.15ubuntu3 (karmic), package size 429 kB, installed size 1368 kB
<jmarsden> MTecknology: pastebin the output again please, the output ffrom the latest attempt
<MTecknology> http://paste.ubuntu.com/337050/
<MTecknology> I'm going to run - back in 1min
<jmarsden> OK... looks like you need to recheck all your dependencies more carefully...
<MTecknology> jmarsden: I have no idea what I'm doing here....
<stochastic> Hi all, I'm just curious what the best method is to fix Bug #235696 it's an upgrade request and the latest version was just added to Debian Unstable.  Should the universe uploaders be subscribed, or should a new request for a pull from debian be made?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 235696 in patchage "[upgrade] upgrade to 0.4.2" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/235696
<jmarsden> MTecknology: You have to tell the system *all* the packages that your package depends on.  Not just one or two.
<jmarsden> Except the really basic ones already in the pbuilder chroot, that is.
<MTecknology> jmarsden: how can I see what it depends on?
<jmarsden> You wrote the code... or you read the INSTALL file and see what they tell you it needs when you compile it by hand?
<MTecknology> I didn't write the code
<maco> MTecknology: by the way, regarding your download cap... maybe set up aptcacher-ng on a system on your lan so you only have to download packages once?
<MTecknology> I'll check that though - thanks
<MTecknology> maco: I don't have a spare system but thanks for the suggestion
<MTecknology> jmarsden: I see it now - task for tomorrow
<jmarsden> MTecknology: Then when you build it, it should have info on what libraries etc it needs around.  We can do it one at a time as the builds fail, but it will take a while...
<jmarsden> OK.
<MTecknology> jmarsden: maco: Thanks very much :)
<MTecknology> This doesn't seem like a hard process; just not easy for a very beginner to figure out - which isn't all bad
<MTecknology> alrighty - g'night all
<jmarsden> Goodnight.
<porthose> stochastic, wait for the package to migrate to debian testing, then change the bug to a sync request :)
<stochastic> porthose, okay.  Thanks.
<alkisg> Can I detect from my prerm script if the package is being purged or removed? http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-maintainerscripts.html#s-mscriptsinstact
<dous> win2
<mrooney> ScottK: wow, I figured it out but that was OBSCURE
<mrooney> I created a trivial postinst, which apparently stopped pycentral from generating its own which was what was doing the linking
<mrooney> how it is remotely discoverable that creating a postinst breaks your package is beyond me though, wow, it took me three days haha.
<mrooney> Now I need to figure out how to have a postinst with pycentral, any tips? Is there some way to supply a script it runs after the autogenerated one?
<Ancalagon> hi
<Ancalagon> I'm already know bash scripting and VBA. Now I want to learn something else that help me to devel something for linux world. Some language that have the possibility to have GUI. Have you some suggestion? C? Java?
<tsimpson> Ancalagon: C, C++ or python are a good start, you can use several cross-platform GUI toolkits with each of those
<mrooney> Ancalagon: Python is pretty friendly to beginners, and Ubuntu uses it a fair amount.
<alkisg> VBA is very similar to Gambas, but python would be better accepted by the community... C and Java are quite different from VBA
<dholbach> good morning
<alkisg> My sch-server package is installed on servers. On postinst, I want to expose some of the server's configuration files by using apache. So I'm creating an apache site and I'm making symlinks to some of the server's configuration files. My question is, where's a good place to put that site on the file system? /var/www/sch-server?
<alkisg> (For example, I create a symlink /var/www/sch-server/firefox/user.js there that shows to /usr/lib/firefox-3.5.5/defaults/preferences/user.js)
<slytherin> alkisg: yes /var/www, but why are you handling this in postinst?
<alkisg> slytherin: thanks, how should I do it?
<alkisg> E.g. /usr/lib/firefox-3.5.5/defaults/preferences/user.js could be in a different path depending on the firefox version
<slytherin> alkisg: Why does your server need to have access to user.js form firefox?
<alkisg> I want the sch-clients to be able to copy the settings from user.js that the server has (different package, installed on the clients)
<alkisg> The server announces itself on the network using avahi, and the clients copy over whatever settings the teacher needs
<Ancalagon> so I can choose between C, C++ or python.. hm.. ok. And those are all good for linux, isn't it?
<alkisg> slytherin: I.e. public ssh+italc keys, firefox settings etc
<slytherin> alkisg: hmm. I don't have better solution for this right now. But I still think postinst is not good idea.
<alkisg> slytherin: I could do that from a script that the user runs after the installation, e.g. "sch-server-setup", would that be a better idea?
<slytherin> Can't say. Haven't dealt with many server installations.
<alkisg> Thank you :)
<persia> alkisg: You might also just install the symlinks, rather than creating them at install time.  dh_link might help.
 * Yagisan waves
<alkisg> The problem is that some symlinks don't have fixed targets, e.g. I need code to find out where firefox keeps its user.js file :-/
<alkisg> Thanks, need to go, bbl :)
 * persia would have thought that most standard configuration file locations would be defined by the packaging that delivered them
<mrooney> persia: hey, how's it going?
<persia> mrooney: Alright.  For you?
<mrooney> pretty good!
<mrooney> but I ran into an dh_pycentral issue that has stumped me, are you familiar with it?
<persia> No.  The install-time special handling of python modules remains opaque to me.
<mrooney> alas.
<mrooney> know any pros to point me to?
<persia> There's usually some python folk around here: my recommendation would be to wait a bit for someone to catch the backscroll.
<mrooney> sounds good, good (time of day) to you, I'm headed to bed
<mrooney> I tried to look at your LP profile to see what time of day it actually is for you, but you seem to have played a humorous game with the map
<persia> The timezone is correct, although the latitude is deliberately skewed.
<persia> Have a good night.
<POX> mrooney: use dh_pysupport
<POX> /usr/share/doc/python-support/README.gz
<persia> POX: Do I read that correctly that one just calls setup.py and adds dh_pysupport, and doesn't need to bother with python-specific files in debian or fields in debian/control?
<POX> persia: you have to add python:Depends and external modules package needs in Depends
<POX> (python:Depends will be replaced with interpreter / helpers dependencies only)
<persia> That doesn't seem very tricky.  I just always got stuck on the special fields like XB-Python-Version and similar.
<POX> if module doesn't work with all supported Python versions, you can use XS-Python-Version
<POX> XB-P-V is used only in pycentral
<persia> RIght, which gets back to the bit that was confusing me.  I'll just hope I mostly encounter the case where I don't have to worry about that :)
<POX> persia: I recommend rules.tiny - it does the right thing for python modules and extensions (even for -dbg packages)
<persia> POX: Really?  I've used rules.tiny for all the new packaging I've done for most of the past year, and that makes me suddenly unafraid to package python.
<slytherin> Can anyone please translate the error in this bug - https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/493986 It appears to be Spanish.
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 493986 in gst-plugins-ugly-multiverse0.10 "package gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly-multiverse (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: intentando sobreescribir ?/usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstlame.so?, que est? tambi?n en el paquete gstreamer0...." [Undecided,New]
<persia> slytherin: loose gloss: unable to write the file because it's also in gstreamer0.10-lame (undeclared conflicts).  One way to get the right error messages is to grep for the string in the appropriate .po file for the affected package.
<slytherin> persia: I guessed that meaning after reading the errors carefully. Anyway the bug is invalid because -lame package is not in repositories. So whether -ugly-multiverse overwrites file in that package is not our concern.
<thekorn> hi,
<thekorn> are there some easy ways, some helpers etc. to write manpages?
<persia> thekorn: help2man is my favorite
<thekorn> persia, wow, that's exactly what I was looking for, thanks
<slytherin> I believe there is also docbook2man but then you need to be familiar with docbook first.
<thekorn> it's event mentioned here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/SupplementaryFiles  but I somehow skiped it
<cornucopic> no LaTex to man ? :)
<thekorn> rest2man would be cool ;)
<persia> thekorn: That's tricky, but wsdl2man ought be easy enough to implement.
<thekorn> ok, rst2man already exists, not sure how good it works
<slytherin> my bad docbook2man expects file in SGML docbook format not XML docbook format.
<jaldhar> is laserjock on this channel?  If so what times are good for talking to him?
<persia> jaldhar: sometimes, but he's not on IRC so often these days.  He's in UTC-5, if that helps.  Email might be better, if only to schedule something.
<jaldhar> persia: thanks.  This is about a package maintained by MOTU but which he touched last.  I'll email him
<persia> jaldhar: Just ask here.  It might not be special.
<persia> (most packages don't have specific maintainers)
<jaldhar> well ok.  moodle is in pretty bad shape in Debian.  It's somewhat better in ubuntu (and several versions newer) but has not been contributed back.  The Debian moodle maintainers are totally unresponsive so I was wondering if laserjock or anyone here had any insight into what's going on.
<jaldhar> i.e. have you tried contacting them and got stonewalled or is there some circumstance that prevents a Debian upload or what?
<azeem> jaldhar: (i) I think none of the Debian moodle maintainers is a DD (or even a DM?) (ii) they (not sure whether that is Debian moodle or moodle upstream, which might overlap) are having a meeting apparently this week, see madduck's planet post about czech beer
<persia> Ah.  That probably would benefit from direct discussion, but you might check the ML archives first (http://lists.debian.org/debian-edu/) or the Debian moodle bug reports.
<thekorn> I've a question about packaging new packages: I would like to create two new packages, one package is depending on the other one. Is there some 'best practice' in revu or in needs-packaging bugs to indicate this dependancy
<thekorn> to make sure they get attention in the correct order
<jaldhar> azeem: oh ok I'll check that out.
<persia> I don't think anyone other than the packager pays attention to needs-packaging bugs, except to track things (avoid duplicates, etc.)
<persia> My recommendation would be to add a note in REVU on the depending package indicating which package it depends upon.
<jaldhar> persia: I didn't think to check debian-edu but the bug reports paint a sorry picture
<azeem> jaldhar: if you really want to help moodle in Debian, I suggest to talk to madduck, he might be the most accessible over IRC and can introduce you to Penny and Dan at least
<jaldhar> azeem: my interest in moodle is solely to get it to stop blocking one of my packages from testing :-)  I'll talk to madduck
<cornucopic> hey all. I am a total packaging newbie. I want to distribute Ubuntu/Debian packages for a pure Python module
<cornucopic> What would be a good starting point ?
<directhex> cornucopic, find a package with similar scope, and use its debian/ folder as a base
<cornucopic> directhex, hm. Ok!
<Yagisan> woo - I've now duplicated Bug #493575 on Ubuntu 8.04, Ubuntu 9.04 and Ubuntu 9.10
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 493575 in buildbot "Buildbot master generates a setupBuild exception when attempting to run a builder" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/493575
<lfaraone> I'm trying to requestsync something, but on submit I get "E: Could not connect to fiordland.ubuntu.com:25: Connection refused (111)". Is it down for anybody else?
<slytherin> lfaraone: I can telnet on SMTP port on that server. So not sure why it is giving you connection refused error.
<ghostcube> lfaraone: maybe a greylisted ip ?
<ghostcube> or even in blacklist ?
<MTecknology> so for libglib2.0-0; whould I do Build-Depends libglib (>= 2) ?
<lfaraone> ghostcube: possibly.
<MTecknology> or maybe (>= 2.0) ?
<dholbach> MTecknology: you need a real binary package name
<dholbach> libglib2.0-dev it'd probably be
<MTecknology> thanks
<ghostcube> MTecknology: in the most control files inside a debian package is listet how the dependencies are written i think so
<ghostcube> i start this point mostly if i do a package
<MTecknology> ghostcube: listet?
<ghostcube> you see how to call them
<ghostcube> :)
<MTecknology> you lost me right now :)
<ghostcube> maybe lol
<MTecknology> I'm still trying to build my first package
<ghostcube> oh i know this :) not so far away from mine first
<ghostcube> :D
<ghostcube> but only for my own use never released any
<MTecknology> I'll be releasing this
<ghostcube> oh ok then i will shut up and dont tell u anything :) maybe better
<ghostcube> hehe
<MTecknology> this doesn't seem to work right...
<MTecknology> I'll make a pastebin and see what you guys think in a second here...
<MTecknology> http://paste.ubuntu.com/337251/
<slytherin> MTecknology: What is not working right?
<slytherin> I don't see any error there.
<MTecknology> dpkg: error processing pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy (--install):
<MTecknology> slytherin: what causes that message?
<slytherin> MTecknology: not an error even though the message looks that way.
<MTecknology> oh.. i can ignore those?
<slytherin> MTecknology: pbuilder creates a dummy package to force the installation of the build dependencies you have specified.
<MTecknology> oh
<slytherin> MTecknology: from your pastebin, it is clear that package was built properly.
<MTecknology> slytherin: thanks
<MTecknology> slytherin: I'm trying to figure out dput now and see if I will smile soon.. I'm getting this error though - No host ricoh found in config
<MTecknology> I have [ricoh] in ~/.dput.fc
<slytherin> MTecknology: I never used personalized config file for dput so can't help there.
<bjsnider> siretart, there is a script in the ffmpeg-extra debian directory called readme.upstream-upgrade
<bjsnider> siretart, it contains the following command: git clone git://git.debian.org/git/pkg-multimedia/ffmpeg-debian.git
<alkisg> MTecknology: it's ~/.dput.cf , not fc
<bjsnider> command doesn't work
<bjsnider> wondered if it might need to be updated
<MTecknology> alkisg: .. thanks :)
<siretart`> bjsnider: yes, the git repository has been renamed from 'ffmpeg-debian.git' to 'ffmpeg.git'
<MTecknology> alkisg: that makes it work :D
<siretart`> bjsnider: I guess you want to upgrade to current trunk, yes?
<bjsnider> yep
<siretart`> bjsnider: have you seen the recent thread on ffmpeg-devel with "upgrade problems"
<bjsnider> i thoguht it ws something like that
<bjsnider> is there a similar repository for x264?
<alkisg> MTecknology: nice, I hope it builds OK
<bjsnider> there's no upgrade script
<MTecknology> alkisg: me too, thanks :)
<siretart`> bjsnider: given that, upgrading the system ffmpeg right now will instantly break nearly everying using ffmpeg
<MTecknology> alkisg: if this builds ok, how hard is it to get it in the universe?
<bjsnider> i see
<siretart`> so spare your time, it currently doesn't make sense
<bjsnider> well, that's inconvenient
<alkisg> MTecknology: I've no idea, I'm just one step ahead of you ==> pretty new as well :)
<MTecknology> alrighty :)
<kecsap> hi all! I am new to contribute Ubuntu. I have a bug at launchpad with fix for a previous Ubuntu release and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates says to upload the fixed packages to the e.g. hardy-updates repository. How can I upload the new, fixed packages to this repo? I can not find any related wiki pages which describes the process. Can somebody point me to the right wiki page?
<siretart`> bjsnider: indeed, it is.
<siretart`> bjsnider: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.video.ffmpeg.devel/100196
<randomaction> kecsap: you can't unless you are a Ubuntu developer. Use https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
<kecsap> randomaction: thanks!
<MTecknology> alkisg: how long does a build normally take? I'm guessing most time is spent in the queue
<alkisg> MTecknology: depends on the server load, I've seen from a few minutes up to many hours, when a new Ubuntu release is made...
<MTecknology> alkisg: rejected
<bjsnider> siretart, i'd be interested to know when that issue is resolved...
<alkisg> MTecknology: see the build log
<MTecknology> Unable to find distroseries: unstable
<MTecknology> that was in the email i got
<alkisg> Yeah you should have put "karmic" or something similar in the changelog, or upload to a specific series
<MTecknology> oh...
<MTecknology> I'll see if that helps :)
<ogra> or lucid :)
<MTecknology> how do I force it to upload again?
<MTecknology> nvm..
<slytherin> kecsap: You can attach appropriate debdiff to the bug and subscribe sponsors team
<MTecknology> --force doesn't let me upload again
<slytherin> MTecknology: where are you trying to upload?
<MTecknology> lp
<siretart`> bjsnider: yes, me as well.
<slytherin> MTecknology: you mean your PPA?
<MTecknology> ~ricoh-r5u87x-devs/ppa/ubuntu/
<soren> MTecknology: What do you mean it doesn't let you upload again?
<ogra> MTecknology, remove the .upload file
<MTecknology> michael@panther:~/ubuntu-build$ dput ricoh ricoh-r5u87x_1.0-1_source.changes --force
<MTecknology> Already uploaded to ricoh on ppa.launchpad.net
<MTecknology> Doing nothing for ricoh-r5u87x_1.0-1_source.changes
<MTecknology> oh
<soren> dput --force ricoh ricoh-r5u87x_1.0-1_source.changes
<soren> (move the --force)
<slytherin> MTecknology: You can remove .upload file. But not sure if it will help.
<soren> Err..
<slytherin> AFAIK, LP does not allow reupload of same version even with --force. You need to increment version.
<soren> Forget the "err..".
<soren> slytherin: Not if the source package wasn't accepted.
<alkisg> If my postinst fails, can I find the stderr output somewhere?
<MTecknology> thanks :) - we'll see if it works this time
<slytherin> soren: if the source package was not accepted then why would it be 'reupload'?
<soren> MTecknology:  If your upload got rejected due to an invalid distro series, you can just fix that and upload again with the same version number.
<soren> slytherin: Because dput doesn't know that it got rejected.
<slytherin> Oh. I now understand what you mean.
<soren> slytherin: dput uploads it. After while, soyuz looks at it and goes "what the heck is this?" and bounces it.
<MTecknology> accepted :D
<alkisg> If my postinst fails, can I find the stderr output somewhere?
<soren> alkisg: How did you install the package?
<alkisg> dpkg -i *.deb
<soren> in that case the output should be right there on the console.
<alkisg> ...and I didn't see any errors on the terminal
<soren> Are you using debconf?
<alkisg> No
<soren> 15:35:27 < soren> in that case the output should be right there on the console.
<soren> :)
<alkisg> Thanks... Hmmm...
<soren> What makes you think anything is sent to stderr?
<slytherin> alkisg: see if you find any output in /var/log/dpkg.log
<alkisg> slytherin: nope, nothing of interest there. soren: the package is now in a "configured files" state (iF)
<alkisg> What's the correct way to retry to install it? dpkg-reconfigure doesn't cut it
<soren> dpkg --configure -a
<alkisg> Thanks
<slytherin> alkisg: if there is nothing in console and nothing in dpkg log then how can you say that it failed.
<slytherin> alkisg: wait, that will try o configure all the packages.
<soren> dpkg.log shows what dpkg has done. Package state changes and such. Output from maintainer scripts never land in dpkg.log.
<soren> slytherin: all packages that are not already configured.
<soren> On a sound system, it will not do anything.
<MTecknology> so- can I delete the upload file, change karmic to lucid in the name and upload it to build on lucid?
<alkisg> I got this on the console: "the post-installation process returned 1" (or something like that)
<slytherin> soren: my experience suggests otherwise.
<MTecknology> for lucid*
<alkisg> slytherin: so, is there another way to configure only that package?
<slytherin> MTecknology: No. Now that it was accepted you will need to change version string.
<slytherin> alkisg: dpkg-reconfigure is the way I usually do it.
<MTecknology> slytherin: how should it change?
<MTecknology> 1.0-2 instead of 1.0-1 ?
<soren> alkisg: dpkg --configure name_of_package
<soren> but -a really should be fine.
<alkisg> slytherin: with `dpkg-reconfigure package` I'm getting "Package <package> is broken or not fully installed". Trying what soren said... :)
<MTecknology> slytherin: or should I have the name lucid or karmic in the version string?
<soren> dpkg-reconfigure is used to repeat the configuration step for packages that are already configured. This package is not ocnfigured.
<slytherin> MTecknology: name of distro in string is better solution.
<MTecknology> slytherin: 1.0-1-karmic and 1.0-1-lucid ?
<MTecknology> granted I won't upload karmic for the version string
<MTecknology> Is that how you would do it or would you suggest different?
<soren> slytherin: It seems dpkg-reconfigure also has a -a optoin. That must be what you're thinking of. dpkg --configure -a is benign. It just takes the packages that are not yet configured and configures them.
<slytherin> MTecknology: 1.0-1karmic1 and 1.0-1lucid1 etc.
<MTecknology> thanks :)
<MTecknology> slytherin: so 1.0-1 is the version and I'm uploading it for lucid for the 1st time; that's what that means?
<alkisg> Nice, I got exactly what I wanted: my sch-client package failed to install because no server was around. :) (the server contains the ssh keys that the client should copy in order to be considered a "school client").
<alkisg> But, is this a normal way to handle it? I.e. leave the sch-client package in an unconfigured state if the server isn't active when the sch-client package gets installed on the clients? (that's what I want, but is it a normal method?)
<shriekout> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/happytimer
<shriekout> Please advised.
<slytherin> MTecknology: yes, just note that this is for uploading to multiple distros in LP. Real life version differ from this.
<shriekout> sorry...
<shriekout> Please advise... :)
<slytherin> alkisg: you can use gdebi to install packages. That way if dependencies are not satisfied it won't install the package instead of installing them in broken state.
<MTecknology> slytherin: It automatically builds for all available architectures, right? amd64, i386, lpia
<oojah> MTecknology: You don't necessarily need to rebuild/reupload for lucid. You can just copy the packages to different series on the ppa page.
<MTecknology> oojah: oh.. sounds easier
<oojah> It depends on what build deps you're using I believe. I'm not a motu.
<Laney>  yes
<oojah> So if the ABI of a dep changes from distro to distro you'll need to rebuild.
<Laney> you can just copy sources though
<Laney> and have them rebuild
<Laney> or copy source+binary
<slytherin> MTecknology: yes
<alkisg> slytherin: thanks, it's not a package dependency problem, my postinst tries to download things from the local server using wget! I guess it's a little like the flash-plugin, which downloads stuff from the adobe site and fails if the network is down...
<slytherin> alkisg: ideally that should be handled gracefully.
<MTecknology> I feel a slight tickle :D
<slytherin> alkisg: if the client does not have all the things it is supposed to download then user can always do --reconfigure
<alkisg> slytherin: right, that's what I'm looking for. Downloading those files is essensial for the package, so what would be a graceful way to handle it?
<alkisg> But I'd like the teacher to know in an obvious way that there's something wrong with his clients
<alkisg> Simply "installed, not working, so reconfigure" isn't obvious enough for teachers... :-?
<MTecknology> built on amd64 for both karmic and lucid now :D - now just need i386 and lpia for karmic
<slytherin> alkisg: can't say, I am not a teacher. :-)
<alkisg> Heh, thank you very much nonetheless :)
<slytherin> alkisg: another option is to show the user a message to ask him if the files should be downloaded and that the client will not work without download.
<alkisg> Ah, am I allowed to show a dialog? That would be nice :)
<alkisg> Do I have to use debconf for that, or will zenity do?
<alkisg> (or whiptail for console)
<slytherin> alkisg: debconf would be ideal.
<alkisg> Thanks, I'll try that
<slytherin> alkisg: you can check b43-fwcutter package. It downloads certain files provided user approves it.
<alkisg> Ty
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sebner> hhuhu bddebian :)
<bddebian> Heya sebner
<geser> Hi bddebian and sebner
<bddebian> Heya geser
<sebner> hoia geser :)
<geser> dholbach: will the MC hold the 2nd meeting this month at the regular date? I've *very* strong doubts it
<dholbach> geser: me too :)
<dholbach> geser: somebody should send a mail saying so :)
<geser> do we skip or move it to an other day?
<dholbach> geser: I'd say just skip it
<geser> ok, will send a mail then
<dholbach> thanks a lot geser
<skars> hi
<skars> could someone help with nautilus?
<highvoltage> any revu admins around?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> what do you need?
<rjnienaber> okay, i've created a .deb file, what's the next step after that?
<rjnienaber> getting it reviewed?
<geser> !revu
<ubottu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<rjnienaber> ta
<MTecknology> How do I add a man page to a file?
<MTecknology> to a package*
<maco> is the manpage generated in the build process but simply not packaged, or does it not exist at all?
<maco> what files get packaged are determined by the debian/*.install files
<maco> MTecknology: ^
<MTecknology> maco: I just made my first package today. It came from somebody elses code
<maco> yay!
 * maco hugs MTecknology
<MTecknology> there is no .install file in debain/
<MTecknology> thanks :)
<MTecknology> there's emacsen-install.ex
<oojah> I wonder if that's more or less common than someone packaging their own code as the first time :)
<maco> probably less
 * oojah agrees
<maco> because a lot of packagers dont code
<MTecknology> I write code and I'll probably package my own someday
<MTecknology> but for now it's related to an open bug
<oojah> MTecknology: *.ex files are example files and should be deleted if they aren't used.
<maco> ooo thats what "ex" stands for! haha i just knew to get rid of them
<oojah> ...
<maco> <-- slow
<oojah> I presume that's what they are, I can't say for sure.
<maco> makes sense
<oojah> I'm a biginner as well.
<maco> i figured it was some templating thing
<oojah> er, "beginner".
<MTecknology> so mv manpage.1.ex manpage.1
<oojah> MTecknology: Does a manpage actually exist?
<MTecknology> no
<maco> im a motu so theoretically i should know how some of this works :P
<maco> and not be a beginner anymore
<MTecknology> I'd like to make one for this package
<maco> i have no idea how to write manpage syntax :-/
<oojah> MTecknology: Right, in that case I believe you should create the manpage and then put it into the debian directory, like manpage.1.
<oojah> maco: I write manpages in docbook format and translate them. Much easier and nicer.
<MTecknology> will it be magically detected or do I need to make a .install?
<maco> ah yeah, docbook is all xml niceness
<oojah> MTecknology: You'll have to ask somebody else about the next bit, or check the guide, I'm not sure.
<MTecknology> thanks
<MTecknology> happily; somebody already used the package and said it works
<MTecknology> now I just need to make a man page and get it put in the universe :P
<oojah> MTecknology: Which package?
<MTecknology> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ricoh-r5u87x-devs/+archive/ppa
<oojah> Neat
<MTecknology> I guess the camera firmware is also wiped on every startup
<MTecknology> maybe I can make the user not even need to run sudo r5u87x-loader --reload
<maco> gettin fancy?
<MTecknology> this is for my use too so fancy is nice :)
<MTecknology> then next week I'll become motu! :D
<MTecknology> :P
<postalchris> I need a reviewer for http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/cvc3 (the CVC3 theorem prover)
<oojah> I just did a package with an init.d script in - turns out it was quite straightforward.
<MTecknology> oojah: how do you do that?
<MTecknology> I'll still want the man page but that could be nice
<sbalneav> Humph.  Got a bit of a pickle.  I'm both upstream for sabayon, and the packager here in Ubuntu.  I'd been working on the next upstream release, 2.29.2, and was making the tarballs for testing using that nomenclature.  I now realize I should have tacked on a -prelease or the like.  Anyway, last act before release, I bump the news and readme files, and release on gnome.  So, I'm going to rebuild the package in my ppa using the ups
<nigel_nb> oh hey maco :)
<alkisg> sbalneav: your message was cut in half, in "So, I'm going to rebuild the package in my ppa using the ups"
<maco> nigel_nb: ok so you have a patch that can cleanly apply, and you have $QUILT_PATCHES set to debian/patches ... thats the last thing we did right?
<nigel_nb> maco: yep.
<nigel_nb> first thing, how long are you gonna be around ;) ?
<sbalneav> Hm
<maco> nigel_nb: about an hour
<sbalneav> Humph.  Got a bit of a pickle.  I'm both upstream for sabayon, and the packager here in Ubuntu.  I'd been working on the next upstream release, 2.29.2, and was making the tarballs for testing using that nomenclature.  I now realize I should have tacked on a -prelease or the like.  Anyway, last act before release, I bump the news and readme files, and release on gnome.  So, I'm going to rebuild the package in my ppa using the ups
<nigel_nb> okay, and are you better now?
<sbalneav> alkisg: That come through?
<alkisg> Nope
<maco> nigel_nb: yeah sure
<sbalneav> foo
<nigel_nb> :)
<maco> nigel_nb: cd into the package but not into the debian/ directory
<alkisg> sbalneav: send it in 2 parts :)
<sbalneav> bbiab
<nigel_nb> maco: okay, done
<maco> nigel_nb: now we're gonna play with quilt
<nigel_nb> maco: why do I have a feeling that its not exactly going to be a game ;)
<maco> nigel_nb: quilt is a patch management system. when you type "quilt push" it applies the first patch in the debian/patches/series file. if you do "quilt push -a" it does them all in order
<maco> nigel_nb: so "quilt push -a"
<nigel_nb> maco: bah, not installed
<maco> oh. right. install it
<nigel_nb> maco: 50%
<nigel_nb> No patch in series
<maco> nigel_nb: oh right. that package doesnt have any patches yet
<maco> nigel_nb: ok that was just theory for if there were patches already there :)
<nigel_nb> maco: ah :)
<maco> nigel_nb: quilt import ../whateveryourpatchisnamed
<maco> guess what that does?
<nigel_nb> copies to that folder
<maco> and...?
<nigel_nb> creates a rev?
<maco> i think it adds it to the series file as well
<nigel_nb> technically thats wat a rev is right?
<nigel_nb> sorry, got used to bzr tooo much working with uclp
<maco> hehe series is just a file listing what order to apply teh patches
<nigel_nb> oh, so this file gets added as first :)
<maco> so now "quilt refresh" should work i think (another "quilt push" before it might be necessary. not sure. been a while)
<maco> right
<nigel_nb> refresh was not enough
<nigel_nb> did a push
<nigel_nb> now at patch network.diff
<maco> ok so then push followed by refresh i guess
<nigel_nb> Refreshed patch network.diff
<maco> great
<maco> we're supposed to add tags to the top of diffs. this is the long explanation from debian http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep3/ which i havent yet read because ubuntu just switched to it, so uh...lets go read that
<maco> ok so it looks like you want "# Bug-Ubuntu 12345" (whatever the bug number is we're working on. i forget now
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 12345 in isdnutils "isdn does not work, fritz avm (pnp?)" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/12345
<nigel_nb> will get it
<nigel_nb> ugg, my logs dont go that back
<maco> it was on harvest. lemme look
<postalchris>  I need a reviewer for http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/cvc3 (the CVC3 theorem prover)
<nigel_nb> bug 351509
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 351509 in vm-builder "vmbuilder should provide an option to choose which libvirt virtual network" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/351509
<nigel_nb> maco: got it
<maco> ah yay
<nigel_nb> irc logs :)
<maco> nigel_nb: so i think something like http://paste.ubuntu.com/337603/ is what you want for the patch tags, based on that webpage
<maco> so just edit debian/patches/network.diff
<nigel_nb> what does the other stand for?
<maco> debian page says: In general, a user-created patch grabbed in a BTS should be categorized as âotherâ.
<maco> so im just going with it
<nigel_nb> okay
<nigel_nb> it just needs to be commented?
<maco> the webpage says its not necessary, so i guess not
<maco> see what happens when you run "quilt pop -a ; quilt push -a"
<nigel_nb> no i meant where do I put it?
<maco> at the top of the debian/patches/network.diff
<nigel_nb> its supposed to be green
<nigel_nb> ?
<nigel_nb> maco: I text added stays black, is that okay?
<nigel_nb> s/I/The
<maco> im not sure. ive never used debian's way of tagging before. its a recent switch, like i said before
<maco> try it plain and see if quilt's happy with it, and if its not, put "# " in front of each of those lines
<nigel_nb> okay
<nigel_nb> maco: quilt is okay with it
<nigel_nb> so we just removed the patch and reapplied, right?
<maco> yep
<maco> ok so now "dch -i" and give your package a changelog entry
<maco> you'll want to say that you added that patch, what it's for, and the bug it closes. for the last bit (LP: #351509)  needs to be in your changelog entry
<nigel_nb> "New patch, allows the user to specify which virtual network the built VM is connected to; LP: #351509" works?
<maco> http://paste.ubuntu.com/337614/
<maco> might need a linebreak in there somwhere if its too long. shouldnt go past 80char
<maco> so that way you say exactly which patch you added
<maco> and if you had more than one patch going in, you could say this patch did ___ and this patch did ___ and this other patch did ___
<nigel_nb> is there a standard format?
<maco> the way in the pastebin is how i normally see it when there's a patch being added
<nigel_nb> oh okay :)
<maco> so you list each patch with * and then list what each patch does under it and indented with a -
<maco> and is your name and email address at the end of the changelog entry correct? if not, fix that
<maco> you want it to be an email address that you use on launchpad
<nigel_nb> it is
<maco> so itll show up as one of your uploads on your launchpad page :)
<nigel_nb> ah :)
<nigel_nb> I use only 1 email, more spam, less complications
<maco> and what version number does it say for the package version? the top line of the changelog
<nigel_nb> oops
<nigel_nb> closed the file
<maco> it's debian/changelog
<maco> just open it in a text editor
<postalchris> I need a reviewer for http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/cvc3 (the CVC3 theorem prover)
<nigel_nb> (0.11.3-0ubuntu2) karmic; urgency=low
<maco> (dch -i is nice because it inserts the little template for it)
<nigel_nb> I know from daniel's video
<maco> everything goes through the development version first, so you want to change karmic to lucid
<maco> oh right :)
<nigel_nb> oh, wait a min
<nigel_nb> I have to boot into vm and do the whole thing again?
<maco> no
<nigel_nb> okay, thats a relief
<maco> you're just going to generate a source package now
<maco> so "debuild -S"
<nigel_nb> with debuild and I can say lucid
<maco> though right
<maco> rihgt
<maco> and then you can run "debdiff vm-builder_0.11.3-0ubuntu1.dsc vm-builder_0.11.3-0ubuntu2.dsc > vm-builder_0.11.3-0ubuntu2.debdiff" to get a debdiff, which you then attach to the bug and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<nigel_nb> okay, hold on
<maco> really, you should test building it in a pbuilder before attaching it to the bug, but generating a pbuilder takes longer than the time i have remaining before i leave for class, and ill test it anyway before i sponsor it
<maco> (dont worry about subscribing sponsors in this case since ill take it)
<nigel_nb> maco: :) you rock
<nigel_nb> maco: got the debdiff
<nigel_nb> attaching to bug
<nigel_nb> any comments I should be adding?
<maco> eh not really
<nigel_nb> got used to doing it bugs :P
<nigel_nb> maco: done :)
<nigel_nb> yaay :)
<maco> nigel_nb: ok. ill head to class now and upload it from there
<maco> thank you for your contribution :)
<nigel_nb> maco: thanks a lot for helping me learn
<nigel_nb> though I have this package that I'd like to see added
<nigel_nb> we'll talk about it later
<nigel_nb> I need to get back to screencasts for user days ;)
<maco> no problem :)
<maco> nigel_nb: look at https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid
<nigel_nb> maco: wow!
<maco> :)
<nigel_nb> maco: thank you :)
<nigel_nb> if we ever are in the same city I'm buying dinner :P
<maco> nigel_nb: see also https://edge.launchpad.net/~nigelbabu/+related-software
<nigel_nb> maco: u built it and checked?
<maco> nigel_nb: yeah it built here on i386 at least
<nigel_nb> maco: ok, doesn't it get tested on launchpad?
<dtchen> if by "tested" you mean "built", yes
<maco> launchpad does the build that ends up in the archive
<dtchen> so if it fails, your "test" fails
<maco> uploading packages that dont build is bad form though
<dtchen> it's also a really good idea to use puiparts on the pbuilt/sbuilt debs
<dtchen> sigh, piuparts
<maco> and dtchen can tell you about uploading packages that prevent everything else from building... ;)
<maco> dtchen: this is what happens when you pronounce it the way you do!
<dtchen> no, it's muscle memory thanks to dvora
<maco> i and u are reversed on dvorak?
<dtchen> huh? no.
<dtchen> (what does that have to do with muscle memory?)
<nigel_nb> oh, you use dvorak?
<nigel_nb> dtchen: probably she's pulling your leg
<dtchen> dvorak, colemak, qwerty, whatever's set in front of me
<maco> you hit the i where you meant u and the u where you meant i....
<dtchen> I keep omitting consonants
<nigel_nb> i and u are vowels :P
<dtchen> 'k' isn't
<nigel_nb> no, but the comment had to with I and U ;)
<dtchen> when you switch keymaps on-the-fly like I do, it can be interesting
<nigel_nb> yea, probably :)
<nigel_nb> I've never used anything apart from qwerty
<nigel_nb> or seen
<maco> nigel_nb: done building
<nigel_nb> maco: where do I see that?
<maco> nigel_nb: on the related software link for you, you can click on the package version number and itll show information about that upload
<maco> itll take you to https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vm-builder/0.11.3-0ubuntu2
<nigel_nb> maco: so now its built for i386?
<maco> yes, and its python, so thats the only platform on which it needs to build
<nigel_nb> ah :)
<nigel_nb> grr, I feel so shy
<maco> aw, why?
<maco> we're friendly here!
<nigel_nb> oops
<nigel_nb> wrong channel
<nigel_nb> and you'll see why soon enough
#ubuntu-motu 2009-12-09
<MTecknology> Once I finish this package is it possible for me to get it into the karmic universe or will it need to wait until lucid?
<RAOF> MTecknology: It won't get into Karmic universe, except possibly via backports.
<nigel_nb> maco: http://cinelerra.org/ the one I was hoping to get into the repos
<dtchen> nigel_nb: please work with the Ubuntu Studio folks regarding cinelerra
<dtchen> #ubuntustudio-devel
<nigel_nb> dtchen: oh, its already there?
<dtchen> there isn't sense in duplicating work
<nigel_nb> dtchen: true. thanks :)
<MTecknology> RAOF: When it's finished how do I get it into universe?
<RAOF> MTecknology: Upload a candidate package to revu, where it'll (hopefully) be reviewed - however, reviewer's time is limited.
<RAOF> MTecknology: Bonus points for submitting the package to Debian as well - mentors.debian.net is what you're after there.
<MTecknology> RAOF: Can I upload the candidate to revu or do I need to get temporarily into that team?
<RAOF> You upload the candidate to revu.
<RAOF> Anyone can upload there.
<MTecknology> here? revu.ubuntuwire.com
<MTecknology> I thought you meant something like ~revu
<RAOF> No, revu.ubuntuwire.com
<MTecknology> RAOF: thanks; I'm all setup for when I'm ready for that point :)
<dtchen> this "is anyone ever going to fix this major bug?" thread is depressing
<dtchen> the implication seems to be that people already involved in development are not doing enough
<syn-ack> dtchen, which one is that?
<directhex> dtchen, little kids these days feel a sense of entitlement to everything, instantly. i blame the internet
<directhex> dtchen, they are entitled to 56 hours a week of your time, no less
<dtchen> syn-ack: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2009-December/010186.html
<ajmitch> directhex: I thought the minimum requirement to be a developer was 168 hours a week?
<ajmitch> the slight exaggerations about apt-get being more or less unusable on 64-bit systems doesn't help the cause
<syn-ack> Pardon my french but no shit is it taking a "long time" with what they're trying to do
<RAOF> My guess: that bug would get more attention if there hadn't been a huge debian-devel flamefest about the package being totally broken.
<syn-ack> I wouldn't really even consider that bug
<RAOF> Also, it's a hack until multiarch support workse.
<syn-ack> I mean, it *is* but still
<ajmitch> also, is ia32-libs-tools the right package? it was removed from karmic
<directhex> dtchen, sounds like you need a killfile to help filter out that kind of thing from your inbox before it falls under your eyeballs
<RAOF> ajmitch: It probably is the right package.
<RAOF> The guy was complaining about Jaunty, IIRC.
<ajmitch> RAOF: so it's fixed in karmic, close the bug! :)
<RAOF> Good point!
<dtchen> bddebian: hi! thanks for the work on experimental's libsdl1.2. I think there's a stray Depends for libsdl1.2-dev in debian/control, though.
<dtchen> bddebian: because experimental doesn't build-dep on libglu1-mesa-dev, it seems odd to have it listed as a dep for libsdl1.2-dev
<dtchen> bddebian: If you prefer, I can do the BTS drill :-)
<syn-ack> Not to dwell, but I don't believe I ever had that issue with apt-get on Jaunty
<syn-ack> anyway. hrm
<RAOF> syn-ack: You wouldn't unless you'd installed the package that diverts apt-get in order to download the i386 packages files and convert them to amd64 packages files.
<RAOF> Man.  That sentence could have been better written.
<syn-ack> It could have but I get it
<syn-ack> anyway bbiab
<ajmitch> RAOF: the package that was a nasty collection of hacks?
<RAOF> ajmitch: Yes, exactly
<MTecknology> RAOF: even if the revu-uploaders team isn't used anymore; can I still join the team so I can have that pretty icon?
<RAOF> MTecknology: Quite possibly?  Is it an open team?
<MTecknology> RAOF: restricted
<MTecknology> RAOF: I was just wondering if somebody could add me to it;
<MTecknology> RAOF: actually, I often wonder why some of these teams aren't just deleted
<RAOF> I'm not sure if it's used anymore; as such, I won't be touching it.
<MTecknology> like ~revo
<MTecknology> ~revu*
<MTecknology> siretart: you around?
<foxmike> h
<sbalneav> Hey all, I tried asking this before but my lines were being trimmed, so I'll break this up...
<sbalneav> I'm both upstream for sabayon, and the packager here in Ubuntu...
<sbalneav> When I was doing my testing, I was creating an "upstream" tarball, which in retrospect, I should have called sabayon-xx-prerelease, but instead I was just using the number it was going to have.
<sbalneav> I've now actually had the official tarball released through gnome.org, but just before release, news and readme was updated.
<sbalneav> So now, when I go to rebuild the package, of course, it complains the tarball's different when I dput, though it's the same name.
<sbalneav> is there anyway to delete the tarball from my ppa?
<sbalneav> I've already deleted the package.
<sbalneav> but no-go so far.
<dtchen> crazy versioning tricks are possible
<dtchen> e.g., + , epoch, etc.
<dtchen> more detail (e.g., the actual versions involved) is necessary
<micahg> sbalneav: I think there's a .upload file in the directory where you uploaded the .dsc
<sbalneav> ok, the tarball I need to ditch from launchpad is sabayon_2.29.2.orig.tar.gz
<sbalneav> micahg: Yeah, I deleted that.  it's complaining about the file on launchpad itself.
<sbalneav> somehow it's still hanging about somewhere.
<micahg> sbalneav: it can take a little while for LP to delete all the files
<sbalneav> ah, ok, so maybe try again in a bit?
<micahg> sbalneav: yeah, idk if they made it so that the .orig.tar.gz is never deleted though
<sbalneav> Well, this was a few hours ago.  I just got back from my son's christmas concert, so I'll give it a go
 * sbalneav slides micahg a beer
<sbalneav> Yup that was it.
<sbalneav> Patience, virtue, etc.
 * micahg offers the beer to someone who needs it :)
 * micahg thanks sbalneav graciously
<sbalneav> NP!
<micahg> how long should I wait before poking someone about approving a package in -proposed?
<micahg> approving a sponsored upload that is
<pting> so i uploaded a custom php5 ppa deb, but for some reason, i'm getting an error that i'm unsure of how to fix... issuing an apt-get install php5-fpm... i get this... php5-fpm: Depends: php5-common (= 5.2.10.dfsg.1-2ubuntu6.3~ppa1) but 5.2.10.dfsg.1-2ubuntu6.3 is to be installed
<micahg> pting: there must be an exact version depends in debian/control
<pting> micahg, thanks, i'll double check it
<tbielawa> #/join #ubuntu-server
<persia> pting: 5.2.10.dfsg.1-2ubuntu6.3 is newer than 5.2.10.dfsg.1-2ubuntu6.3~ppa1
<persia> (try dpkg --compare-versions)
<persia> You'll need to either clean up and install both, or create a version that is newer than the default (perhaps use '+' instead of '~')
<jdong> all you fancy rosetta people, wrt bug 386683, is it safe to handle as a SRU as proposed?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 386683 in xubuntu-docs "Typo" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/386683
<jdong> or is there some magical procedure to follow to update strings?
<pting> persia, hum, thanks, i'll try the '+' replacement
<pting> so when repackaging a deb with some patches, is it customary to increase the version and add that ~ppaN or keep the same version but use a '+'?
<pting> i guess the docs suggest increasing that suffix version number
<ScottK> Depends on your goal.
<micahg> pting: here's the LP suggested docs: https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/BuildingASourcePackage#versioning
<pting> my goal is just to patch in php-fpm into the current stable php5... dreamcat4 has already created it for an older version (5.2.10.dfsg.1-2ubuntu3~pre18), i'm just trying to patch it again the latest
<persia> pting: My recommendation would be to use ${VERSION}-${REVISION}+${EXTRAREVISION} if you're packaging customisations for limited distribution and stuff, and reserve the use of '~' for cases where you're looking for testing (or similar) as a candidate for pushing into the archive.
<pting> persia, thanks, that sounds good
<micahg> persia: are you an archive admin?
<persia> micahg: I am not.  You can check the membership of the team on LP.
<micahg> ok
<persia> micahg: For what do you need an archive admin?
<micahg> oh, I have something that someone sponsored to -proposed and was wondering if I can get it released to -proposed
<persia> Oh.  How long have you been waiting?
<micahg> it's only been in there 5 days
<ScottK> micahg: Is it a Universe package and if so,  did motu-sru approve it?
<micahg> yes and I think so
<ScottK> What bug?
<micahg> bug 477513
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 477513 in uim "FireFox crashes routinely karmic i386" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/477513
<persia> People still use uim?
<micahg> idk, but I have a feeling it's responsible for quite a few crashes
<persia> My understanding was that it had been mostly abandoned upstream
 * persia goes to investigate
<micahg> but apport has been broke, so I couldn't have people submit their crashes
<micahg> persia: a new version was just migrated to debian testing
<ScottK> micahg: It's motu-sru approved.  I can accept it.
<persia> With lots of new stuff too.  Wow!  I hadn't looked at uim since Feisty or so.
<micahg> ugh, it really isn't that used...
<micahg> but I still have a suspicion
<micahg> thanks ScottK
<ScottK> micahg: Done.
<micahg> thanks :)
<persia> ScottK: On a related note: what's the current status of merging the SRU teams?
<ScottK> persia: Decision has been made to do it, specifics TBD.
<persia> Then I didn't miss anything :)
<ScottK> In the intermin, I've decided to view the lack of mention of motu-sru on the SRU process page as a documentation bug.
<ScottK> intermin/interim
<micahg> oh, are we still supposed to subscribe motu-sru?
<persia> I prefer to think of it as a organisational bug (as in the fix is to merge the teams rather than change the docs)
<jdong> persia: pitti sent out mail with intent to merge everyone into ubuntu-sru
<jdong> however, it hasn't been done yet
<jdong> indeed, micahg, for now if you want attention to be paid, you should continue to subscribe motu-sru
<micahg> jdong: ok, I'll fix my other bug
<ScottK> jdong: lmms is still sitting there from before release, btw....
<micahg> jdong: bug 455089 in case you're interested
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 455089 in xfce4-power-manager "power manager does not appear after resume" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/455089
<jdong> ScottK: from my viewpoint we're still waiting for verification procedure or a good reason why to do it
<ScottK> OK
<ScottK> jdong: Would you please look at Bug 458129 - it's uploaded already
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 458129 in mplayer "Can't encode without subtitles" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/458129
<jdong> ScottK: acked
<ScottK> jdong: Bug 491522 too.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 491522 in pybridge "package is uninstallable" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/491522
<syn-ack> Anyone in here have skype account that wouldnt mind giving me a ring? I think I just nailed down the profile
<syn-ack> the apparmor profile that is
<syn-ack> I've got it running and all that but I want to make sure that everything still works as far as audio and the like
<jdong> ScottK: also taken care of
<micahg> jdong: I did ubuntu2 because there was no ubuntu2 in lucid...is it always supposed to be a dot release for SRU?
<jdong> micahg: yes please
<micahg> jdong: got it
<micahg> jdong: is it proper to delete old versions of patches (that's what I've been doing)
<ScottK> jdong: Up to date now.  Thanks.
<jdong> micahg: you don't have to...
<jdong> personally I've preferred for and previously asked for the original bug description to include the latest debdiff intended for review linked.
<jdong> but if it's obvious from scrolling down what debdiff is the one to review that's a moot point
<micahg> jdong: so if I do v1, v2, v3, that's ok
<jdong> it gets somewhat irritating for those huge bugs with 100 comments to have to read all of the chatter to find the right patch.
<jdong> micahg: yeah that's entirely fine by me
<jdong> we're humans :)
<micahg> jdong: one nice feature of bugzilla is that you can mark a patch obsolete
<micahg> anyone feel like sponsoring an upload? :)
<paultag> Any MOTU around to hand-walk me through a question?
<paultag> ( regarding control / control.in )
<paultag> I'ts simple, I promise ;)
<ScottK> paultag: Your odds of getting an answer to a question go up if you ask it.
<paultag> Fair enough. Not familiar with MOTU protocol, so I wanted to test first. I'm trying to learn a bit more about control files -- am I able to use variables in a control file ( like ${shlibs:Depends} ) as one was able to do with control.in ?
<paultag> ScottK, ^ ( sorry, forgot the ping )
<ScottK> That one, yes.
<paultag> ScottK, OK. Is there any difference except that of ascetics with control vs control.in ?
<paultag> are *
<ScottK> All the ${stuff here} ) variables are usable.
<paultag> Outstanding. Thank you ScottK :)
<ScottK> I'm not a fan of control.in.  I think that if you're changing your control file, you ought to do it on purpose.
<paultag> ScottK, Yeah, I'm working with upstream deb, and I asked to take on a bit of a role in the package. I'm moving it from control.in to control now
<paultag> Now, to figure out git >:)
<paultag> thanks for all the help ScottK :)
<tbielawa> Howdy ya'll. I would appreciate any feedback. Jaunty libvirt ftbfs for me using dpkg-buildpackage. http://pastebin.com/m15c980f4  However, if I run the autogen.sh script in the base directory before I run the dpkg scripts I can build it without error.
<tbielawa> I'm wonder if this is unusual behavior? I didn't find mention of it in any bug reports or package notes....
<tbielawa> The errors are clearly happening within the libtool system, however in a new pbuilder and on my regular shell it won't build without running ./autogen.sh first.... :-\
<jmarsden> I'll try it here (are you building Jaunty libvirt on Jaunty, or on Karmic or Lucid?)
<tbielawa> building lp:ubuntu/jaunty-updates/libvirt on 9.04
<tbielawa> thanks jmarsden for taking a peek
<jmarsden> No problem... firing up Jaunty server VM, I switched my host OS on this desktop to Karmic last week...
<tbielawa> I'd like to get Bug #368084 closed. I was able to backport the patch for libvirt 0.6.5 to 0.6.1 (Jaunty version).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 368084 in virt-manager "internal error creation of non-raw images is not supported without qemu-img" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/368084
<tbielawa> Now that I've got the package building (took longer than backporting the patch) I'll be able to test it out and get some resolution on this issue, hopefully.
<jmarsden> Actually it looks like livirt doe build-depend on autoconf and automake, so using them (via autogen or manually) during the build should work if you end up really needing them...
<tbielawa> Hmmm
<tbielawa> Policy (4.9) says the build target should "perform all the configuration and compilation of the package"
<jmarsden> OK, first I'm building libvirt 1.6.1 from the source package to make sure *that* works for me, then I'll try your version.
<jmarsden> tbielawa: RIght, so it can call autoreconf or whatever it needs to, to do that.
<tbielawa> What' I'm getting at is that it doesn't do that nor document any required interactive pre-build actions. Is this something worth filing a bug and submitting patches for?
<tbielawa> jmarsden: you meant 0.6.1, correct?
<jmarsden> well... that depends; it the current unpatched version builds from source, then it does enough preparation for itself so there is no bug in it.
<tbielawa> I was just thinking of a bug in the packaging, just a missed step, not upstream
<jmarsden> But it's not a packaging bug if the package (as in the 0.6.1-0ubuntu5.1 package) does not need it... it would only be a bug in *your* new pacakage, if that one does need it... do you see what I mean?
<jmarsden> And 0.6.1-0ubuntu5.1 builds for me just fine after apt-get source and then cd and debuild -us -uc, no special effort needed with autogen or anything.
<jmarsden> Now to try your patched version...
<tbielawa> I wonder why I couldn't get 0ubuntu5.1 to build even in a pbuilder.... that's confusing. i'll get a link to my patch in a jiffy
<tbielawa> http://csee.wvu.edu/~tbielawa/fix-missing-qemu-img.patch
<tbielawa> Thanks for confirming that the current packaged version compiles correctly
<jmarsden> tbielawa: OK... I was going to get the patched version from bzr but need to set up the bzr launchpad stuff in the VM to do that, because lzr is braindead about requiring lp logins even for read access... grr...
<tbielawa> that bazaar branch I linked is the official branch
<tbielawa> it's what I was attempting to build. I was assuming it was == libvirt in -updates
<tbielawa> when I apt-get source I am able to build without autogen. different behavior from the LP branch
<jmarsden> well, looks like it may not be set up to be == libvirt in updates.  Some projects do expect you tpo run autogen when compiling from version control, but not when compiling from release tarballs.
<tbielawa> what you're saying then follows exactly in line with policy. when packaged the interactive steps were taken care of
<tbielawa> that was eye opening. I didn't know that before. :)
<jmarsden> Right.  I don't know for sure that is how all or most or most Ubuntu etc projects do it, only that some I am a part of which are only very loosely linked to Ubuntu do it :)
<jmarsden> Looks like your patch edits some autoconf created files, which is triggering the issues you are seeing.
<jmarsden> Did that patch get created on a Jaunty machine or on some other distro with a different autoconf version?
<tbielawa> The patch comes from here: http://www.redhat.com/archives/libvir-list/2009-May/msg00615.html most of it applied without rejection. I had to apply two hunks by hand.
<jmarsden> Ah... there is some sort of autoconf/libtool intgration in the build process.  If I apt-get install libtool on the build host, it tries to fix things up and gets a lot further with the build...
<siretart> MTecknology: yes, but i also *do* read email :-)
<tbielawa> I'm going to try adding my patch to the quilt series and building from an apt-get source (0.6.1-0ubuntu5.1)
<tbielawa> I've successfully built with my patch in the quilt series on a branch from -updates after running ./autogen
<jmarsden> tbielawa: I think that will be easier than starting from the bzr tree, from what I have tried here.
<tbielawa> jmarsden: I agree, I lost hours of my day attempting to do that before I tried autogen
<jmarsden> :)  There may be some piece of bzr magic neither of us know that would take care of this... I just don't know.
<jmarsden> At least you now have a new direction... which may waste a few more of your hours :)
<tbielawa> I think it's about done actually.
<tbielawa> Just need to do some testing.
<jmarsden> Cool.  have fun... Glad to have (somewhat indirectly) helped :)
<tbielawa> Maybe you could take a look at this too and tell me what I can do to get action taken on it: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pbzip2/+bug/363793
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 363793 in pbzip2 "pbzip2 does not see big files" [Undecided,New]
<tbielawa> I hate to see a patch not get acted on. That patch has been tested heavily in my work place. We're rolling out 14 GB compress virtual disk images to labs of machines with my fixed version
<jmarsden> tbielawa: Well, that's only a patch, not a debdiff, so the next step for that bug would be to package the software with the patch, create a debdiff, upload the debdiff to the bug, etc etc.  See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
<tbielawa> right on. I forgot about that part. You've been quite helpful. This should provide a few more hours of entertainment for me tonight :)
<jmarsden> No problem :)
<porthose> slangasek, ping, would you please have a look at bug #486157 :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 486157 in xtide "Merge xtide 2.10-2 (universe) from Debian testing (main)" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/486157
<slangasek> porthose: hi - not tonight, but I've assigned it to myself to look at tomorrow
<porthose> slangasek, ty :)
<dholbach> good morning
<persia> dholbach: The next MC meeting is moving to January?  I thought we were having one Friday first.
<dholbach> hey persia
<persia> Good morning :)
<dholbach> persia: oops
<dholbach> you're right
<persia> And you're fast.  You fixed it before I had a chance to edit it :)
<dholbach> restored
<dholbach> I had it in firefox' awesomebar - most of the time I was waiting for moin to restore the old version :)
<micahg> mr_pouit: here's a link to the changelog...I tried to match previous styles: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/36615770/xfce4-power-manager_0.8.4-1ubuntu1.1~karmic~ppa1_source.changes
<nigel_nb> dholbach: how often does harvest get updated?
<dholbach> nigel_nb: it could be that it's a bit broken at the momen - I really hope we can soon move to http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Harvest/NewUI
<dholbach> nigel_nb: the new code will be much easier to maintain
<dholbach> but I'll have a look and see what I can do
<nigel_nb> dholbach: thank you :)
<nigel_nb> just hunting for low hanging bugs
<nigel_nb> but I just realized, most of them got plucked :P
<dholbach> nigel_nb: there was a problem with its db, I'll rerun the script and everything, will let you know once it's down
<nigel_nb> thanks again :)
<dholbach> no worries
<stochastic> can anyone point me to a waf build system package off the top of their heads?
<stochastic> (i.e. one that uses waf to be built)
<persia> gnome-format, kupfer, ejecter, and cgmail all look like likely candidates (reverse-build-depends is a lovely tool)
<stochastic> thanks persia
<dholbach> nigel_nb: done
<dholbach> (was out for walking the dog in the meantime)
<Quintasan|Szel> Hi there, I have sent my application to MOTU but the next meeting is Friday 7 UTC and it's impossible to for me to attend (school) would it be possible to move meeting to an later hour?
<geser> Quintasan|Szel: which time would you suit?
<Quintasan|Szel> hmm I'm in Poland, so hmm thant would be 14 UTC
<Quintasan|Szel> or later
<geser> dholbach: ^^?
<dholbach> geser: sure, we can try to attempt an adhoc meeting if we get quorum together
<soren> I'm much more likely to make 14 UTC than 7 UTC, FWIW.
<dholbach> I'll be there at 14 utc anyway, I have a call two hours later iirc
<geser> Quintasan|Szel: ^^ is that ok with you?
<dholbach> so we'll try to get quorum together and see wha thappens
<Quintasan|Szel> geser: okay
<Quintasan|Szel> Thanks for postponing it :)
<dholbach> Quintasan|Szel: we'll have the meeting at 7 anyway
<dholbach> just do an additional one, if we get enough people together
<Quintasan|Szel> dholbach: ah, so that's how it, anyways thanks :)
<dholbach> no worries
<soren> Err... How do I force bzr to push even though I have uncommitted changes?
<soren> Ah, --no-strict
<randomaction> there's a package (libjcalendar-java) for which the debian-ubuntu delta is a change of "Recommends: mozilla | www-browser" to "Recommends: www-browser". Can this be dropped?
<randomaction> mozilla is a dummy package depending on seamonkey
<randomaction> IMO having this alternative doesn't hurt
<geser> on one hand it would prefer seamonkey to any other browser if none is installed, but this case is unlikely
<geser> if we keep this delta it should be replaced with "firefox | www-browser"
<randomaction> it was probably the intention of the packager anyway to install seamonkey in no browser is present
<geser> yes, but Debian and Ubuntu might have different defaults
<Laney> wouldn't it be best to fix mozilla then?
<randomaction> the thing is, mozilla doesn't exist in Debian, so it's not default there
<alkisg> While testing a debconf script, how can I select a different debconf frontend? (e.g. with an environment variable or something...)
<alkisg> Ah, found it, $DEBIAN_FRONTEND :)
<hyperair> man debconf has some interesting things as well
<alkisg> I've read the man page, but I can't run my script with debconf in front, I don't know why
<alkisg> It runs fine if I do: ./my-script though
<alkisg> So I'm not able to put command line parameters to debconf...
 * ScottK lol's at http://www.sirena.org.uk/log/2009/12/09/oh-dear/
<persia> alkisg: Assuming you're testing a maintainer script, I find it easiest to repeatedly install, configure, uninstall, and purge the package with DEBCONF_DEBUG=developer and watching the syslog.  You can manipulate DEBCONF_FRONTEND for the shell that you're using to manipulate the package (which is also the shell in which you want to set DEBCONF_DEBUG)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<highvoltage> hey bddebian
<alkisg> Thanks, `DEBIAN_FRONTEND=gnome DEBCONF_DEBUG=developer ./sch-client.config` is fine for me so far, I'll keep that in mind for later on :)
<persia> Err, s/DEBCONF_FRONTEND/DEBIAN_FRONTEND/
<bddebian> Hi highvoltage
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser
<sebner> huhu geser bddebian
<bddebian> Heya sebner
<mok0> ScottK: why is bug 400839 in the sponsor queue?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 400839 in gurlchecker "newest gurlchecker segfaults on Karmic" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/400839
<ScottK> mok0: I don't recall.  I believe I asked cemc to put it there rather than sponsor it myself so he could get wider exposure among the MOTU.
<mok0> ScottK: so this is a request for testing the app?
<mok0> ScottK: AFAICS you've already uploaded it
<ScottK> mok0: You are correct.  I unsubscribed the sponsors.
<ScottK> mok0: Normally fix release stuff stays subscribed since it doesn't show up in the default search.
<mok0> ScottK: perhaps there should be a special queue for "please test" requests?
<mok0> ScottK: everyone could help out there
<MTecknology> Can you guys give me an opinion on how I could handle getting this into the repos without breaking any licensing? bug 120434 - I created the package but there's nothing to handle that in there.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 120434 in ricoh-r5u87x "[needs-packaging] Ricoh R5U87x Webcam userland tools" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/120434
<ScottK> We used to have a policy of announcing Universe SRUs on ubuntu-motu ML.
<randomaction> mok0: re bug 494384, I agree that the changes are really small, I sent them to Debian, but the package is orphaned so no idea when it'll be incorporated
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 494384 in tix "Please merge tix 8.4.0-7 (universe) from Debian testing (main)" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/494384
<mok0> ScottK: sure. But it's the sort of thing that other users could help doing
<mok0> randomaction: ah
<ScottK> mok0: I agree.  IIRC there are some resources for this on qa.ubuntuwire.com that could use wider visibility.
<ScottK> randomaction: Talk to bddebian about getting them uploaded.
<mok0> ScottK: There could be an LP team that everyone could join
<bddebian> randomaction: What package?
<ScottK> mok0: Perhaps.  I agree it's a problem.  I don't have a strong opinion on how best to solve it.
<mok0> ScottK: alternatively, we should change the workflow so it's like the Unstable -> Testing repo
<mok0> s/should/could
<randomaction> bddebian: tix, our delta is at http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=449786
<ubottu> Debian bug 449786 in tix "tix: debian/watch fails to report upstream's version" [Minor,Open]
<bddebian> Hmm, I think I have a new upstream for tix but was having some problems :(
<bddebian> Yeah I have an 8.4.3 package but I don't have all the patches merged in yet :(
<bddebian> randomaction: Want to finish my work? :)
<randomaction> bddebian: well, if I can
<bddebian> http://people.debian.org/~bdefreese/tix/tix_8.4.3-1.dsc
<randomaction> any pointers on what needs to be done?
<mok0> ScottK: I testran gurlchecker and it failed my quality requirements.
<bddebian> randomaction: I think all that needs done is checking/updating all of the patches
<bddebian> From the current version
<randomaction> I'll look into it
<mok0> randomaction, bddebian, I just uploaded Tix 8.4.0-7ubuntu1, so there's no rush
<ScottK> mok0: What happened?
<mok0> ScottK: it crashed :-)
<ScottK> cemc: ^^^
<ScottK> That's not good.
<randomaction> mok0: thanks, we're talking new upstream version
<bddebian> mok0: Sure, I just hate leaving packages I started out there :(   :)
<mok0> randomaction, bddebian, great, tix is an important package, hope it gets a maintainer
<mok0> randomaction: what about tclx btw?
<mok0> bddebian: ^^
<mok0> ScottK: wait, let me be 100% certain I'm using the version in -proposed
<bddebian> mok0: Feel free to maintain it! :)
<mok0> bddebian: is it orphaned too?
<Laney> hey bddebian
<Laney> can you QA poke 521722?
<nigel_nb> dholbach: thank you :) (was asleep :))
<dholbach> :)
<bddebian> mok0: I was talking about tix still
<bddebian> Laney: Heya, let me take a look
<Laney> ta
<mok0> bddebian: ah :-)
<mok0> bddebian: I have no personal interest in tix (anymore). But I know it's widely used
<bddebian> Laney: Not much I can do about that one unfortunately since it has a maintainer that isn't MIA :(
<Laney> guh
<Laney> he has been active?
<bddebian> Well only on ML, he hasn't uploaded since Oct 2008 :(
<Laney> hmm
<mok0> ScottK: Sorry I goofed up: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gurlchecker/+bug/400839/comments/11
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 400839 in gurlchecker "newest gurlchecker segfaults on Karmic" [High,Fix committed]
<mok0> BBL
<bddebian> Laney: I'm asking around in the QA group.  Unfortunately since morph stepped down, I don't think too many people are doing MIA stuff. :(
<Laney> bddebian: yeah, that was a bit sad :( It's quite important imo
<alkisg> When are package.config scripts ran? "automatically" when I use dpkg-preconfigure, and also "automatically" when I source confmodule from my postinst?
<randomaction> aha, Debian finally got gcc4.4 by default!
<postalchris> Anybody free to look at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=cvc3 ?
<postalchris> Am I going about things the wrong way here? How am I supposed to move my package forward on REVU?
<ScottK> postalchris: No, but there's just a lot more demand for MOTU to review stuff than there are MOTU to review it.
<ScottK> postalchris: You might consider maintaining your package in Debian.  See mentors.debian.net for details.
<postalchris> ScottK: That's understandable. I thought Ubuntu -> Debian was an easier path than Debian -> Ubuntu though
<ScottK> postalchris: It varies.
<ScottK> postalchris: Debian -> Ubuntu is automatic once it gets into Debian.
<postalchris> ScottK: It looks like Debian has streamlined their process since the last time I looked.
<postalchris> ScottK: It used to be "hang out on the mailing list and try to find a sponsor" right? (Which is kind of like "hang out on #ubuntu-motu and try to find a reviewer" now that I think about it ;-)
<highvoltage> has there been any discussions at UDS or otherwise on Chromium and whether that would be included in universe for lucid?
<ScottK> It will probably be in Main.
<slangasek> porthose: ping
<rjnienaber> is there any guidance for packaging a python program?
<ScottK> rjnienaber: Yes.
<ScottK> rjnienaber: That draft policy in http://lists.debian.org/debian-python/2009/12/msg00009.html is the best document available for Python specific packaging questions.
<ScottK> That/The
<rjnienaber> cool, i'll give it a read
<POX> + /usr/share/doc/python-support/README.gz
<rjnienaber> i assume there's no salient information in the diff part of that email?
<dfarning> RainCT, Do you have time for some questions about packaging sugar for ubuntu?
<ScottK> rjnienaber: No.
<rjnienaber> cool, i'll skip over that section
<RainCT> dfarning: In a while, I'm finishing some homework right now (unless it's short questions, then I can answer them now, or somebody else here may also be able to help).
<RainCT> dfarning: I've got your e-mail, btw. I plan to send the Debian guy a mail to try to coordinate with him.
<dfarning> RainCT, Ok thanks.  In the meantime I'll try to learn more about getting  abiword 2.8 into backports.
 * RainCT wonders why packages.ubuntu.com is outdated by at least one week
<RainCT> ah, abiword 2.8 hasn't build yet for any arch
 * sebner is wondering why RainCT is wondering :P
<dfarning> RainCT, we are carrying a hacked up version in our ppa at https://launchpad.net/~sugarteam/+archive/0.86/+packages
<RainCT> sebner: I like that a lot, I wonder why you don't find wondering great :)
<sebner> heh
<porthose> slangasek, pong, sorry I was AFK, I agree with your comment and now understand what your looking for :)  I will make the needed changes, I don't have time right now, but I will jump on it later tonight ty :)
<RainCT> dfarning: I'm not sure, but I think only stuff in newer Ubuntu releases can be backported, so you'd need to get it working in Lucid first.  (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong).
<dfarning> RainCT, just figured that out:-/  I am looking for why libpsiconv-dev, an abiword dependancy, is failing to build in lucid.
<geser> dfarning: it looks like libpsiconv-dev build correctly (both binaries and source are in sync)
<geser> the problem is: abiword is main while libpsiconv-dev is in universe -> MIR is needed
<dfarning> geser, RainCT I needed to look up MIR.  It looks like my next step is file an MIR ticket.
<geser> !mir
<ubottu> mir is Main Inclusion Report - see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionProcess for more information.
<dfarning> !mir
<ubottu> mir is Main Inclusion Report - see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionProcess for more information.
<dfarning> cool
<geser> dfarning: an alternative would be to check if abiword can be build without libpsiconv-dev
<RainCT> dfarning: OK so what questions do you have?
<RainCT> dfarning: (Won't stay long though, I've to wake up in 6 hours. But I'll be around tomorrow starting at 16h UTC+1)
<dfarning> RainCT, The biggest question is should we base off of the Debain packages.
<RainCT> dfarning: Yeah, I'd be great if we can do that.
<dfarning> Ok, I'll try to build them in a ppa.
<dfarning> RainCT, What about submitting inclusion request for Sugar- stuff, should we try to get all of the dependency like abiwrord done first, before we even worry about the sugar stuff?
<RainCT> dfarning: Well, you can already start submitting those packages which already have all dependencies fulfilled. In any case, getting them into Ubuntu is likely to take some time (which is one of the reasons why working in Debian is better, if we find someone interested there it may be much faster).
<dfarning> RainCT, Ok, I'll do a dependency graph.  I'll let you see if you can establish a relationship with the debian maintainer.
<RainCT> dfarning: How many packages is the Sugar stuff? Those 30 in the PPA?
<dfarning> RainCT, yes the packages starting with sugar in https://launchpad.net/~sugarteam/+archive/0.86
<dfarning> RainCT, glucose, fructose, and platform are meta packages
#ubuntu-motu 2009-12-10
<LimCore>  I sent a patch to fix https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kerneltop/+bug/486218  please confirm and apply it
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 486218 in kerneltop "kerneltop reports wrong map line on 2.6.31-14-generic" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<alkisg> dh_installdebconf adds a call to db_purge on my postrm script, which fails! How could I debug this? http://paste.ubuntu.com/338512/
<alkisg> Here's the apt-get purge output with DEBCONF_DEBUG=developer: http://paste.ubuntu.com/338515/
<alkisg> "subprocess installed post-removal script returned error exit status 128 "
<dholbach> good morning
<Quintasan|Szel> hiho
<dholbach> hi Quintasan|Szel
<Quintasan|Szel> how nice, 11 people form my class and 17 teachers are absent due to illness :/
<Quintasan|Szel> dholbach: btw, how many people from MOTU Council are needed on this adhoc meeting?
<dholbach> Quintasan|Szel: we're 7 in total, so to make a decision it needs to be 4
<dholbach> simple majority
<nigel_nb> good morning dholbach :)
<dholbach> hi nigel_nb
<nigel_nb> :)
<alkisg> Bah, I found the problem, I had to redirect file descriptors on "service ssh force-reload" :(
<DktrKranz> dholbach: hi! I remember you once created a script to unsubscribe bugs from sponsors' queue and subscribing ubuntu-archive, is it still available online?
<dholbach> DktrKranz: yes, but it used python-launchpad-bugs and that's not going to work any more
<dholbach> DktrKranz: should be easy to rewrite using python-launchpadlib
<DktrKranz> it probably will
<geser> DktrKranz: I've a similar script to ack syncs. If you remove the ACK part you should have your script.
<dholbach> ubuntu-dev-tools? :)
<geser> when I've time to polish it up (add some error checking)
<DktrKranz> geser: if you have something already, it could be nice (and will speed up things :)
<geser> DktrKranz: http://paste.ubuntu.com/338573/ it should be easy to remove the unneeded parts (like adding bug comment)
<DktrKranz> geser: thanks.
<blackxored> hello motus
<blackxored> I'm about to upload an azureus revision for new upstream into ubuntu, but I had to diverge since 3.0 format isn't in lucid yet, so you think is ok to upload this merge, otherwise it would be a sync eventually
<alkisg> Is there a list of valid db_capb parameters somewhere? E.g. I'd like to enable "cancel", but not "backup", is that possible?
<persia> blackxored: If it must diverge, it's fine to upload as a merge.  If you can sync, than it's better to do so.
<blackxored> persia, I can't sync since 3.0 format isn't supported yet
<persia> Right, so it's fine to upload as a merge :)
 * persia is permanently set on extra-verbose, so some messages may end up carrying more information than is strictly necessary
<highvoltage> I like persia on extra-verbose.
<cjwatson> alkisg: the presence of the cancel button is controlled by whether the backup capability is set
<slytherin> ttx: in case you plan to file any sync requests, please file one for jug as well. :-)
<alkisg> Thank you cjwatson, so I'll enable the backup capability :)
<ttx> slytherin: heh
<slytherin> ttx: I may not boot into Ubuntu today at home so informed you.
<cjwatson> alkisg: I'm not sure there's a list anywhere, sorry, but 'backup' and 'escape' are the only two that can usefully be set by a debconf client (and also 'align' and 'progresscancel' if cdebconf is involved, but at the moment this is only relevant to installer hackers)
<alkisg> Well, being new to debconf, I guess "backup" will be just fine for me :) Thanks again.
<slytherin> Are we not syncing packages in source format 3?
<Laney> nope
<slytherin> Laney: is this announced anywhere?
<Laney> I don't think so, it's just that LP can't handle them yet
<Laney> it will catch up soon
<slytherin> Laney: Soon as in this release cycle?
<james_w> slytherin: soon as in next week AIUI
<Laney> slytherin: AFAIK (see wgrant@#ubuntu-devel a few minutes ago)
<MTecknology> How can I see what package installed a certain app?
<Laney> dpkg -S
<MTecknology> thanks
<Laney> dlocate
<Laney> apt-file
<Laney> :)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<MTecknology> Is there any easy way to remove all the packages I installed for mesing with packages? I want to move everything from my primary system into a vm
<MTecknology> I think I have most of them - just nice to know I don't have any extras
<alkisg> I'm storing a public ssh key in a debconf "string" type, is that acceptable? Or I'd be violating length/LF issues?
<blackxored> someone can help me to setup custom from in gmail for @ubuntu.com
<blackxored> ?
<cornucopic> Hi all
<cornucopic> is there a switch for 'apt-cache' so that It shows me only 'ARCH=All' packages?
<persia> cornucopic: You might be looking for grep-dctrl, but perhaps not.
<cornucopic> persia, ah. from the name of it, i think it might just help me! Thanks. looking..
<persia> It's lower-level than you asked about, but consequently more flexible :)
<cornucopic> persia, need help with dpkg-cntrl :(
<Unggnu> hi all
<cornucopic> is this valid 'apt-cache search python | grep-dctrl -FArchitecture ALL
<cornucopic> ' ?
<Unggnu> Are there plans so ship an 64 Bit version of the Adobe Flashplayer?
<cornucopic> i want to list packages with ALL arch.
<cornucopic> it throws me a error, i don't understand:(
<persia> Unggnu: We don't ship Adobe Flashplayer directly, due to license restrictions.  If Adobe makes one available, it might be possible to integration with flashplayer-installer.
<Unggnu> persia, it is one available and it works quite well for me. It also seems to be updated regularly with the standard player.
<persia> Unggnu: On the other hand, the Partner archive contains a flash player package, which might get 64-bit at a different timing.
<Unggnu> persia, http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flashplayer10/64bit.html
<persia> Unggnu: Feel free to investigate the flashplayer-installer package, if you like.
<Unggnu> It would most likely fix this crashes
<persia> cornucopic: Sorry: I tend to use snippets copied from mails and IRC logs to drive grep-dctrl.  You'll need to ask someone more knowledgeable.
<cornucopic> persia, no problem. i think i am making headways:)
<cornucopic> Would any kinds soul help me with grep-dctrl ?
<pabelanger> Afternoon, am I in the correct channel for packing help with a PPA?
<bjsnider> i'm wondering if there's some way i can upload the same package to a ppa, but for 5 different series, and use the same orig tarball for each one, so i don't have to upload the source each time -- it's big and i don't have a lot of upload bandwidth
<ScottK> bjsnider: PPA specific questions like that are more appropriate in #launchpad.
<bjsnider> hahaa
<bjsnider> yes, they told me to go here
<bjsnider> i don't think it's a specific ppa question
<bjsnider> more about debian packaging, or debuild
<ScottK> bjsnider: It's actually very specific to how PPAs work.  In normal distro work, such questions don't come up.
<bjsnider> well, let me take the ppa side out of it. if you're updating a package by adding a patch or changing a dependency, are you then uploading the entire thing including the source tarball or are you just uploading the changes file and the dsc, and it's using the orig tarball that's already on the server?
<persia> bjsnider: For distro work, one only uploads a tarball when producing a new tarball and never uploads to multiple targets.
<persia> So the question simply never arises.
<bjsnider> but what if you're updating a package going from -0ubuntu1 to -0ubuntu2? the whole source tarball is not re-uploaded, only the changes right?
<persia> Right.
<persia> But whether that applies to PPAs is a different question.
<persia> It's based on how the remote archive works, not on how the development tools work.
<bjsnider> i'm not sure you're right about that
<bjsnider> at least i'm not using the tools correctly
<ScottK> It's a strong enough rule that in the Debian infrastructure if you upload the tarball again when you don't need to, the upload will be rejected.
<ScottK> Ubuntu will accept it, but complain a bit.
<persia> Well, it depends.  I've had rejects for that.
<bjsnider> is there a way i can use debuild and force it to use a specific orig tarball?
<persia> No, but you can use -sa to force inclusion of a tarball when debuild doesn't think you need one.
<bjsnider> no, no, no
<bjsnider> i'm not communicating this properly
<bjsnider> the orig tarball has to match the name in the changelog, right? otherwise it is not found, at least not on my system. but the name int he changelog has to change for an upload to work, so the orig name has to change with it, and that means you've got a new orig file that has to be uploaded again each time...
<bjsnider> which is what i'm trying to avoid
<bjsnider> if, on the other hand, i could force debuild to use a generically-named orig tarball, then i could upload it once and only once
<persia> Um, no.
<persia> So, the name in the changelog has to match the package name.
<persia> And then there is the ${VERSION}-${REVISION} string.
<persia> The VERSION must match the VERSION of the orig tarball
<bjsnider> now we're getting somehwere
<persia> The REVISION can be whatever you want (although due to semantic constraints, one should always increase this when preparing new revisions)
<bjsnider> well, on of the two has to change or the upload won't work
<bjsnider> but that's beside the point
<persia> But what you'll need to get from #launchpad is whether an upload of a tarball to a specific target in a PPA automatically makes it available to other targets in the same PPA.
<bjsnider> it's easy enough to test though
<persia> Well, no.  It again depends on the way the archive works.  I *think* I remember a bug about revision management in PPAs, but I don't recall the result offhand.
<bjsnider> between version and revision there is a dash
<persia> Right.
<bjsnider> the first dash is the one that's used
<bjsnider> that's why this wasn't working
<bjsnider> that's how i force debuild to use the same tarball
<persia> I forget.  There's some discussion of the effects of multiple dashes that I read once.  It might be the last dash.
<bjsnider> i didn't have that dash in the name
<persia> You might want to test that if you have a real need for two hyphens.  I recommend avoiding it if possible.
<bjsnider> so it must have been seeing the whole string as $version
<bjsnider> in an ubuntu package, is the very first attempt called -0ubuntu1 or -0ubuntu0?
<bjsnider> well, i didn't have any hyphens
<geser> if upstream has a '-' in it's version string using a revision is mandatory as the last '-' determines the upstream version and the package revision
<persia> geser: It is the last one.  Thanks!
<persia> (although one can also use uversionmangle to work around that)
<pabelanger> What is the best way for a package in my PPA to always supersede the Ubuntu version?  IE: in my PPA I have helloworld_2.4, but ubuntu have helloworld_3.0.
<tsimpson> pabelanger: just upload a new version
<persia> pabelanger: If you want to maintain a newer PPA, you have to play the merge game.  What's better about your PPA version?
<pabelanger> Nothing is better, I just want to slim down the Ubuntu version, this main reason for the PPA version.
<mok0> pabelanger: you can give it a epoch number
<mok0> an epoch number, even
<persia> Well, except then one runs into the awkward state of not being able to resync if later things work out.
<persia> The alternative I'd recommend is to see if the package can be sanely split so that one doesn't need the larger binary footprint, and discuss the split with the relevant Debian maintainer.
<persia> (well, there's the intermediate option of trying to maintain the split package in Ubuntu, but we discourage that)
<mok0> persia: yeah.
<persia> epochs are dangerous.  They are the ultimate bigger hammer.
<mok0> I guess another way is to pin it in apt.conf
<persia> Well, sure, but that only works for a local system.
<mok0> persia: I agree, but it's a working solution to the problem
<persia> Depends on the audience, but yes.
<pabelanger> what about renaming the package to a new name and setting up a conflict with the original package?
<persia> You'd also need to Provide: the original package, and then you run into dependency issues because there's no support for versioned Provides.
<persia> (note that any of the solutions outlined above *work*, they just mostly have downsides, either because they don't really solve the problem or because they require social machinations)
<mok0> pabelanger: you could also repackage the newest version
<persia> But that requires merging on a regular basis.
<persia> There's also only supporting stable releases with the PPA, which means only needing to merge once every six months.
<geser> if there are no SRUs or security uploads
<persia> Right.
<persia> Although constructing a version that is larger than any SRU or security update is easier than constructing a version that is newer than anything, but then the package is potentially inherently insecure or buggy.
<norsetto> Anyone know of any planning to have format 3.0 in lucid?
<maco> launchpad support is in the works
<geser> norsetto: with luck next week
<norsetto> cool
<mok0> norsetto!!!1
<sebner> huhu norsetto :D
<mok0> Yay!
<norsetto> mok0!!!2
<mok0> hehe
<norsetto> sebner, gruss
<mok0> norsetto: what's up? Longtimenosee
<norsetto> mok0 indeed, I'm pretty fine, and you?
<sebner> norsetto: come stai? =)
<sebner> ah
<mok0> norsetto: Ah, I'm fine, mostly... too busy though
<ScottK> Hello norsetto.  Good to see you again.
<norsetto> sebner, and whats up with you?
<norsetto> ScottK, hi Scott
<sebner> norsetto: bussy with university, some important tests next week and then finally .. holidays \o/ and after that 2 weeks of do or die tests :D
<norsetto> sebner, ahhh, so finally you decided to go to uni
<mok0> The military got fed up with sebner
<norsetto> mok0, I'm just surprised they wanted him in the first place
<sebner> mok0: don't say that, I left as private first class ;)
<norsetto> mok0, must be desperate up there ...
<sebner> rofl
<sebner> norsetto: private first class!
<mok0> norsetto: they dropped their strategy of trying to bore the enemy to death and let him go
<norsetto> sebner, yes sir! of course sir!
<sebner> heh
 * mok0 hugs sebner
<sebner> mok0: My shooting skills weren't *that* good indeed
 * sebner hugs mok0 back :)
<norsetto> sebner, I read there was a strange decline in the number of alpine cows
<mok0> Ah good times are back when norsetto shows up
<norsetto> mok0, lets drink a beer together!
<sebner> norsetto: hehehehe, I only killed wooden tablets! ... or not? ;D
<mok0> yeah!
 * norsetto passes a beer to sebner, he is allowed now that he is a real (tm) man 
<mok0> chhheeeerssss
<norsetto> skollllll
<sebner> kampai!
<norsetto> burp
<norsetto> sorry
<mok0> Salut!
<sebner> Prost!
<mok0> SkÃ¥l!
<mok0> cin cin!
<norsetto> the first one that starts singing I let sebner shoot him (he will miss anyway)
<sebner> hahahaha xD
<sebner> norsetto: Really no worries, I got a pretty quiet office job there ;)
<wgrant> norsetto: We're testing 3.0 support out at the moment. It will hopefully become available for use in Ubuntu late next week.
<norsetto> wgrant, looking forward to that, hope it will be announced in a devel m.l. once ready
 * RainCT wonders whether 3.0 debs are supported already in Ubuntu
<mok0> RainCT: last I heard, no
<RainCT> mok0: Do you know if that will change anytime soon?
<sebner> RainCT: ~~~o~~~
<mok0> RainCT: I don't... however, since the Debian archive now contains 3.0 source packages, it can't be long
<wgrant> Late next week.
<mok0> tataaa!
<wgrant> It's taking a while to get dpkg upgraded on all the necessary machines.
<mok0> wgrant: is LP prepared for the change?
<RainCT> Woo, okay thanks :)
<wgrant> mok0: My branch is approved, but cannot land until one last image is upgradd.
<wgrant> That should happen in the next day or two.
<mok0> However, 3.0 (quilt) is still subject to heated discusssions on Debian mailiing lists
<wgrant> They seem to have died down.
<geser> pbuilder (and similar) don't need any change to test-build 3.0 source packages, right?
<wgrant> geser: sbuild didn't, but not sure about pbuilder.
<mok0> geser: Unpacking of source packages is handled by the dpkg-* programs so as long as they are up-to-date...
<wgrant> It at least works in Debian, so it's easy to fix.
<mok0> wgrant: hmm. What's so special about sbuild?
<wgrant> mok0: LP uses it, so I tested that it works.
<wgrant> Well, OK, LP uses its own fork of an ancient sbuild full of revolting hacks, but it's close enough.
<mok0> wgrant: ah, sbuild *didn't need changes* ... got it
#ubuntu-motu 2009-12-11
<fcuk112_1> anyone running lucid alpha yet?
<hedkandi> hi folks does anyone want to revu my package rssedit? I need some advocates please
<RAOF> Ok.  I want to use monodevelop-vala, so it's time to check out those merges :)
<BLUG_Fred> Hi! How do I find the package maintainer of a community managed project to ask him to provide an update as the default install segfaults on karmic. Project is renpy and bug is here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/renpy/+bug/467730
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 467730 in renpy "Segfault when launching" [Medium,In progress]
<micahg> BLUG_Fred: I'll mark it triaged as the upstream maintainer said that it's fixed in a new upstream version
<BLUG_Fred> micahg: thanks a lot
<porthose> slangasek, ping, when you have time please have a look at bug #486157 thx :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 486157 in xtide "Sync xtide 2.10-2 (universe) from Debian testing (main)" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/486157
 * porthose hates it when life gets in the way of his ubuntu development fun ;)
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> good morning and you are an hour late
<dholbach> I know, I'm sorry
<pwnguin> are non-free packages autosynced to multiverse?
<pwnguin> I'm interested in the cuneiform ocr package in debian non-free, but it's not yet in ubuntu
<slytherin> pwnguin: I don't think they are auto synced. You will have to request and justify the sync.
<pmcenery> I'm looking for a bit of advice from a Java packaging wizard. I'm going to be doing a course which requires me to use javanns (http://www.ra.cs.uni-tuebingen.de/downloads/JavaNNS/) and sb-mase (http://sourceforge.net/projects/sbmase/). Both of these supply the original Java source code and not just the compiled bytecode. I guess I'm looking for a good example package that I can download and use as an example. I'm familiar
<pmcenery> Also... does anyone know of a link on how to get your PPA packages built for multiple series? I tried googling this. Is it just a case of "dch -i" and setting the series to have you want and put a changelog entry of * Backport in before uploading again?
<pmcenery> I've just taken a look at azureus source package and think I'll use that...
<directhex> azureus is a BIG example
<directhex> i'd poke ttx if i were you
<directhex> which may mean waiting for timezone alignment
<pmcenery> directhex: thanks. Strangely... seems like the smaller packages are put together more hap-hazardly with no build systems and stuff all over the place
<directhex> you play the hand you're dealt
<directhex> and java upstreams can be haphazard themselves
<pmcenery> directhex: Yeh. I need to look at setting up a build system for it. Looks like ANT might be quite easy to do this from the azureus example... but I've poked ttx and will wait for some expert guidance on it.
<directhex> pmcenery, typically in my experience, if upstream provides NO build system, then don't go overboard in plugging the gap. a manual "compile.sh" which just runs javac won't offend anyone if upstream didn't give you better
<pmcenery> Do you know offhand of a package which uses such a script?
<directhex> not for java, no
<pmcenery> directhex: thanks. I'll have a play and see if I can build it first. Looks like I just need to get it to build a single jar and put that in /usr/share/<name>, and do all the desktop links etc. These are fairly small apps
<pmcenery> /usr/share/<pkg_name>/name.jar rather
<ttx> pmcenery: you should have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/LibraryPackaging
<ttx> pmcenery: if the project doesn't provide any kind of build system, I'd write a debian/build.xml and use ant CDBS
<ttx> See the geronimo-*-spec packages for a minimal example of that (for example geronimo-interceptor-3.0-spec)
<ttx> slytherin: we should probably update the examples to use the mh_ magic now...
<ttx> that would remve the dh_link part
<pmcenery> ttx: thanks. I'll check that link. The one I'm looking at the moment is sb-mase, which doesnt appear to have "built" to a .jar. Its just got a classes folder and a start.bat in it I've executed the commands manually and it seems to actually run. Should I be trying to make this all into a .jar in /usr/share/pkgname/, or should I be putting all the classes there?
<ttx> either a jar in /usr/share/java, or classes directory in /usr/share/pkgname.
<ttx> I'd recommend the former if that jar is intended to be used by something else
<pmcenery> ttx: I think these classes are only used by the app itself. One of the "classes" is also just the icons and stuff used by the application. I'm guessing I should opt for just the classes in /usr/share/pkgname/ and patch the source if necessary to find them.
<ttx> pmcenery: then yes, eithe ship a classes directory or a jar in /usr/share/pkgname
<pmcenery> ttx: thanks for the advice. I'll let you kwow when I got something remotely build-able
<emgent> \sh: ola?
<pepsifx357> Hi, this chat room wouldn't happen to be about the Mark of The Unicorn or MOTU company of audio interfaces would it?
<slytherin> ttx: ever played with jetty configuration? need some quick help with that.
<slytherin> pepsifx357: nope
<Pici> pepsifx357: no, sorry.
<JontheEchidna> I'm afraid not. :) It's about "The Masters of the Universe" that maintain the universe package repository of Ubuntu
<pepsifx357> ok thanks
<Pici> !motu | pepsifx357
<ubottu> pepsifx357: motu is short for Masters of the Universe. The brave souls who maintain the packages in the Universe section of Ubuntu. See  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
<pepsifx357> Oh ok, thanks
<ttx> slytherin: not really. I plan to, in late January.
<slytherin> ok
 * slytherin feels it is time we got rid of compiz from default install, it's just eye candy
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sebner> huhu bddebian :)
<bddebian> Heya sebner
<geser> Hi bddebian and sebner
<bddebian> Hi geser
<jdstrand> dholbach: hi! would you mind adding ubuntu-security-sponsors to http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/ ?
<dholbach> jdstrand: not at all
<sebner> ahoi geser :)
 * sebner waves at jdstrand dholbach 
<jdstrand> hi sebner :)
<jdstrand> dholbach: thanks!
<LucidFox> I have a bad feeling about the exFAT thing.
<directhex> indeed
<dholbach> jdstrand: pushed, should be part of the list after the next cron run
<dholbach> jdstrand: just seems empty right now
 * jdstrand hugs dholbach 
 * dholbach hugs jdstrand back :)
<jdstrand> dholbach: yes it is, I only just created the team a few minutes ago :)
<jdstrand> dholbach: going through https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/security-lucid-sponsorship-review right now
<dholbach> nice :)
<jdstrand>  5
<jdstrand> o/
<randomaction> could someone update MoM please? it seems to be frozen for over a week
<ScottK> Maybe Adri2000 needs to put a copy of it up somewhere ....
<geser> randomaction: what I've heard MoM doesn't like the new format 3.0 packages, don't know if it's fixed or not
<popey> against what package should bugs be filed about the way the alternate cd has been built?
<ogra> try debian-cd
<ScottL_> greetings all! I am trying to help the Ubuntu Studio developers build packages and find myself stymied again and again my build errors
<ScottL_> that I cannot solve due to my ignorance, is there a place to solicit for a mentor to help me learn more about building packages?
<ScottL_> geser: thanks for your help before with my lucid pbuilder environment, works like a charm now :)
<ScottL_> s/my/by
<geser> why not ask your questions here and get input from the whole MOTU community?
<popey> thanks ogra
<quadrispro> LucidFox, about fuse-zip, please bump Standards up to 3.8.3
<ScottL_> geser: I can do that :)  but I'll have to wait until I'm in front of my home computer
<ScottK> quadrispro: If this is for Ubuntu, unless the package isn't in Debian, please don't.
<LucidFox> It should be 3.8.3...
<quadrispro> ok, but debhelper build-dep should be at least 7.0.50 (due to the use of override_*)
<LucidFox> Well, I mean... it *is* 3.8.3 there.
<ScottL_> this may sound cliche or dippy but I have learned gads of information already and I feel very fortunate to have these resources available from which to learn
<LucidFox> ScottK, why shouldn't non-Debian Ubuntu packages have 3.8.3?
<quadrispro> BTW, the package looks good to me, LucidFox did you get in touch with debian ITP bug's owner?
<ScottK> LucidFox: I meant the other way around.  If we are merging from Debian, don't bump the standards version from what's in Debian.  It's pointless and ubuntu-policy says not to.
<ScottK> Sorry if I misunderstood the situation.
<LucidFox> I don't see any ITP in Debian, only an RFP.
<LucidFox> ScottK> It's a new package on REVU, lintian complains that the version is 3.8.3 rather than 3.8.0.
<ScottK> Due to an old lintian on REVU
<quadrispro> LucidFox, ok, if you are looking for a co-maintainer to maintain it even in Debian, feel free to ping me :)
 * LucidFox nods
<LucidFox> So you're going to advocate and upload it?
<quadrispro> yep, I can change those little details and upload it
<LucidFox> Little details?
<quadrispro> Standards, dh build-dep and maintainer field (should be set to Ubuntu Developers <ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com>)
<quadrispro> oh, standards is right and REVU is wrong :)
<quadrispro> LucidFox, looks really good to me, http://home.alessiotreglia.com/lucid/pool/fuse-zip_0.2.8-0ubuntu1/
<quadrispro> advocating and uploading
<LucidFox> Danke.
<quadrispro> Bitte
<michas> Hi, I'm using the resolvconf package, which currently completely breaks DNS due to bug #448095. Since I have to fix the package anyway, (to get a working DNS again, ) I wondered if I should, (instead of a local quick&dirty hack,) try to really fix it and try to get it into the official updates. Is this a good idea? What is the correct procedure? (Just attaching a debdiff to the bug?)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 448095 in resolvconf "resolvconf starts after ifupdown, does not pick the dns-nameserver and dns-search lines up from /etc/network/interfaces" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/448095
<micahg> michas: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
 * syn-ack trips micahg for the heck of it
<syn-ack> I'd like to say good morning to you today, sir is all. :)
<micahg> hi syn-ack
<michas> micahg, I would call it a "Bug which represent severe regressions from the previous release of Ubuntu", hence I guess it would justify an SRU. But independently of the SRU, the next step should be a debdiff to fix it in lucid, right?
<micahg> michas: correct
<micahg> michas: it's already been marked regression-release, so there will be an update at some point
<micahg> michas: but, if you can make a debdiff for lucid, that would speed things along
<michas> micahg, alright, I'll do so. thanks for your help.
<ScottL_> i have been trying to build zynjacku with pbuilder and I get an error "pythondir is NOT in your Python's sys.path" so I log into my pbuilder environment and see
<ScottL_> that I do have the directory "/usr/local/lib/python2.6/site-packages" but when I check "python -c "import sys; print sys.path"" it is not in my python path
<ScottL_> how can I add this into my path within my pbuilder environment so that I can then build zynjacku in launchpad for inclusion for Ubuntu Studio?
<ScottK> ScottL_: You shouldn't be using /usr/local in a package for the archives.
<ScottL_> ScottK: so perhaps I can set the pythondir with DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS in the rules files?
<ScottK> That sounds likely
<ScottL_> ScottK: if so then can you suggest a more proper place?    /usr/lib  perhaps?
<ScottL_> ScottK: sorry for my vast inexperience, but I'm learning rapidly :)
<maxb> ScottL_: Sounds like you need to include --install-layout=deb on the setup.py command line
<ScottK> ScottL_: The Debian Python policy (which we use) is in the midst of a major update.  Have a look at http://lists.debian.org/debian-python/2009/12/msg00009.html and that should have most of the python specific answers you are looking for.
<pochu> I don't think DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS is meant for that...
<pochu> ScottL_: yes
<ScottL_> maxb and ScottK:  thank you for the answers, now I'll have to research them
<ScottL_> pochu: I'm a little confused by your repsonses ?
<pochu> I don't think setting pythondir in DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS will have any effect
<pochu> but what maxb said :)
<ScottL_> pochu: ah, thank you
<kees> jdstrand: hola
<jdstrand> o/
<jdstrand> 14:56 < jdstrand> kees, mdeslaur: ok, I updated   SecurityTeam/UpdatePreparation#Submission to point to   SponsorshipProcess. it, among other things, points to  SecurityTeam/SponsorsQueue
<jdstrand> kees, mdeslaur: so, as per our UDS discussion and this blueprint: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/security-lucid-sponsorship-review
<jdstrand> kees, mdeslaur: we are all tied into the normal sponsorship process
<jdstrand> kees, mdeslaur: it would be great if at some point you guys could read SecurityTeam/SponsorsQueue
<kees> jdstrand: nice! looks really good.
<jdstrand> kees, mdeslaur: it basically follows the MOTU/Sponsorship/SponsorsQueue process, and differs mainly in that ubuntu-security-sponsors remain subscribed to the bug in most situations.
<kees> reading SecurityTeam/SponsorsQueue now
<jdstrand> s/and/but/
<jdstrand> kees: oh, I was just going to say 'no rush' :)
<kees> I'm at a nice pause while making lunch for my mom-in-law.  :)
<kees> jdstrand: 'The Status should be "New" for sync requests' is that accurate for -security?
<kees> jdstrand: as in, we have "sync" requests?  we have the debian fake-syncs, is that what's meant there?
<jdstrand> kees: it is meant to refer to fake syncs
<kees> ok
<jdstrand> (I forgot to add a link to that)
<kees> ah, I see the "Syncs" section now. heh
<kees> jdstrand: what do you think of adding a "7." to the "Notes for Contributors" that asks the contributor to comment on the runtime testing that has been done?
<kees> also, do you think linking to or including the "Issues that warrant a security update" from the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess to the "Requesting Sponsorship" section of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess ?
<kees> (so that someone can attempt to self-determine which pocket to target?)
<jdstrand> kees: sure. we can link back to the new, softer and gentler SecurityTeam/UpdatePreparation#Testing
<jdstrand> kees: that sounds good too
<kees> hehe
 * jdstrand goes to do it
<kees> this is very cool, nice.
<jdstrand> kees: '7' is done and I cleared up the fake sync dealie
 * jdstrand goes to SponsorshipProcess
<jdstrand> kees: done
<shamran> Hi there
<shamran> I have a question regarding getting a package into universe so hope this is the place
<shamran> What are the process when I have a Launchpad project with sourcecode and i whant to build the package from there, and not just build a source package on my laptop and send it to revu.
<ScottK> Our process is throught REVU.
<ScottK> The fact that upstream may be hosted on Launchpad doesn't affect that.
<joaopinto> I have attached a debdiff with the fix for a bug, I should susbcribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors for the sponsorship process right ?
<shamran> thx ScottK
<geser> joaopinto: yes
<dabaR> /win/win c
<ScottL_> earlier I asked for help about a python sys.path issue, but now that I read the warning again I was mistaken about the location:
<ScottL_> this is where the scripts are located:   Python script dir  : /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages      not/usr/local    so that is good
<ScottL_> but I find the other warning:   pythondir is NOT in your Python's sys.path which means you should add it to PYTHONPATH at runtime, or add a .pth file to one of your Python's existing sys.path directorie
<ScottL_> and :    Alternatively, re-run ./configure with PYLIBDIR set to override the default pythondir, or adjust prefix to match the prefix used to build your Python.
<ScottL_> is there something I can do in the rules file dh_make created to solve this?
<maxb> ScottL_: Debian/Ubuntu packages are expected to install into dist-packages not site-packages from Python 2.6 onwards
<ScottL_> maxb, is this something I should talk with nedko (upstream dev) about?
<maxb> More conventional distutils-based builds will do this properly when passed --install-layout=deb. If this thing has a nonstandard buildsystem, it'll require patching
<ScottL_> I searched through various config files and make files but couldn't find anything that called for setup.py which you suggested I pass the "--install-layout=deb" to :(
<maxb> Can you point me to the source of this thing in something web browsable?
<ScottL_> uno momento, por favor
<ScottL_> https://launchpad.net/~slavender/+archive/lucid    this is my build in my ppa for it....you can see the buildlog for the warning
<ScottL_> https://launchpad.net/~slavender/+archive/lucid/+build/1383726   perphas this is a quicker, more direct link
<maxb> ScottL_: Ah, ok. So it's a traditional autoconf build, rather than a Python distutils one.
<maxb> The problem is that its paths are wrong. Where they say site-packages, they need to say dist-packages.
<maxb> Find a command-line parameter or a way of patching the package to make that the case
<ScottL_> maxb, thank you, I will dig into it for a while but I will probably end back up here tomorrow :)
<ScottL_> I am imagining that I can simply edit his configure files to replace 'site-packages' with 'dist-packages', no?
<maxb> Hard to say without having looked at where it gets those paths from
<ScottL_> then find the Ubuntu wiki/help patch page to help me create a patch and send it upstream?
<maxb> The patch will not be suitable for upstream. The dist-packages thing is unique to Debian/Ubuntu
<ScottL_> hmmm, learned something else
<ScottL_> well, later tonight I'll try to replace 'site' with 'dist' and see what happens then, thank you immensely for your help
#ubuntu-motu 2009-12-12
<michas> hi, an "apt-get source resolvconf" does not give orig.tar.gz/diff.gz, only a single tar.gz and a directory name containing the whole ubuntu1 part. what is the reason for this? (never saw this on other packages before.)
<c_korn> michas: because the package is ubuntu specific: http://packages.ubuntu.com/karmic/resolvconf
<maxb> This is called a "native" package. It means there is no upstream that is not the distro itself
<directhe`> michas, it's called a "native package", it means ubuntu is upstream
<maxb> snap :-)
<c_korn> native - that was the word I was looking for :)
<michas> If I understood the naming scheme correctly, 1.44ubuntu1 means it was in debian before, and is essentially the same in ubuntu, right?
<maxb> For some value of "essentially"
<michas> ok, do I have to handle those packages differently? dch for example complains about the missing orig tarball.
<maxb> Why is dch even looking for an upstream tarball?
<michas> "dch -i" says: dch warning: your current directory has been renamed to:../resolvconf-1.44ubuntu2 warning: no orig tarball found for the new version.
<maxb> I would say that that warning is spurious and a bug
<michas> ok, I'll just ignore it for now. ;)
<michas> one more small thing: apt-get source complains "gpgv: Can't check signature: public key not found". Did I forget to configure something correctly?
<michas> (even explicitly recv-ing the key before does not change it...)
<ScottK> michas: That's a normal warning to get for a native package.
<michas> ScottK, you're referring to the dch warning, right?
<ScottL_> after talking to nedko about the zynjacku /usr/lib/python2.6/sites-package he suggested I set  PYLIBDIR but I don't know how to set it while using pbuilder, can anyone suggest something?
<ScottL_> or better, how can I set an environ1
<ScottL_> or better, how can I set an environment variable while building a package using pbuilder?
<nano4ever> Hey guys I made debdiff Bug #206862
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 206862 in xsensors "New upstream version (0.60) available" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/206862
<nano4ever> can anyone take a look at it?
<maxb> ScottL_: Don't. It is evil for packages to only build if they have certain envvars set external to themselves. You should be setting anything like this in debian/rules
<ScottL_> maxb, how can I accomplish setting it in the debian/rules?   can you tell me how or point me to a manual/guide?
<maxb> debian/rules is just a Makefile with special targets. No black magic there
<ScottL_> unfortunately, I'm still pretty ignorant about makefiles though :(
<ScottL_> i've bought the GNU make manual from FSF though which should be here in a few days :)
<ScottL_> this must be incrementally painful for you to help me but I appreciate it greatly
<azeem> ScottL_: the Makefile knowledge you need for debian/rules is miniscule compared to the GNU make feature set
<ScottL_> azeem, can you point to a succinct guide for makefiles then?
<maxb> "info make"
<ScottL> !make
<ubottu> Compiling software from source? Read the tips at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CompilingSoftware (But remember to search for pre-built !packages first)
<ScottL> i've read that page but I don't remember it discussing moderating makefile or rules files, but I'll look at it again
<ScottK> michas: Yes, I was.
<ScottL_> I think I have it:   ./configure $(CROSS) --prefix=/usr --mandir=\$${prefix}/share/man --infodir=\$${prefix}/share/info CFLAGS="$(CFLAGS)" PYLIBDIR="/usr/lib"
<ScottL_> now if I can figure out the right PYLIBDIR ;P
<shiki-> !revu
<ubottu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<shiki-> hi all btw
<shiki-> last time I didnt get an answer. So. HOW should I prepare a package for revu?.. From scratch source... debianize it..and ..thats all?
<fabrice_sp__> !packagingguide | shiki
<ubottu> shiki: The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<shiki-> ty fabrice_sp__
<fabrice_sp__> yw ;-)
<oussama> hello everybody
<shiki-> hi
<oussama> what does the motu team do ?
<fabrice_sp> !motu | oussama
<ubottu> oussama: motu is short for Masters of the Universe. The brave souls who maintain the packages in the Universe section of Ubuntu. See  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
<shiki-> :)))
<oussama> ok thanks
<oussama> and how to get involved ?
<fabrice_sp> oussama, see the topic: "Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing"
<fabrice_sp> :-D
<shiki-> :D
<oussama> interesting
<oussama> but need a lot of work
<shiki-> hah.. sadly
<shiki-> Im still trying to force myself to prepare those packages..
<fabrice_sp> Preparing a new package is a lot more complex than fixing one
<directhex> depends on how broken things aee
<directhex> are
<shiki-> hmm.
<fabrice_sp> and for new package, it depends the build system and how bad the copyright is
 * fabrice_sp is still trying to get a pakcage into debian that is a copyright nightmare, with stuff stolen from others projects!
<oussama> how to find tasks to do ?
<etali1> Oussama: You could look on launchpad for bugs tagged with [Needs Packaging], and pick one that you're interested in working on (perhaps something you already use?)
<etali> That's what I've done (not a MOTU yet, but want to apply next year).
<oussama> ok
<randomaction> oussama: check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO
<BLUG_Fred> hey guys! coming back for another issues with a package not working by default after a fresh install. Package is labyrinth and bug is documented here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/labyrinth/+bug/327174 . How can we get this working out of the bix?
<BLUG_Fred> box
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 327174 in labyrinth "labyrinth crashes at startup "ImportError: No module named Numeric" : missing python-numeric dependency (dup-of: 86503)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 86503 in labyrinth "Can't open the sucsessfully installed "Labyrinth Mind-mapping"" [Medium,Triaged]
<oussama> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/blender/+bug/451449
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 451449 in blender "[bugfix release] Blender 2.49b" [Undecided,New]
<oussama> how to fix it ??
<oussama> how to upload a package ?
<BLUG_Fred> oussama: it seems like a lot of bugs into one report
<BLUG_Fred> oussama: talk to the package maintainers to ask for a backport
<shiki-> if one package's been requested for inclusion... should I still mess with REVU?
<^arky^> hi any help with bug 491327
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 491327 in at-spi "No module named pyatspi" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/491327
<oussama> how to upload a package in universe or multivers ??
<randomaction> oussama: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
<oussama> what is dfsg
<oussama> blender_2.49a+dfsg.orig
<randomaction> Debian Free Software Guidelines
<oussama> thanks
<randomaction> it means that the original tarball was repackaged to remove some non-free files
<oussama> and how to do it
<oussama> i want to upgrade the package from 2.49a to 2.49b
<randomaction> I think it's repack, delete, pack :)
<randomaction> no wait; unpack, delete, pack
<oussama> in cmd
<oussama> command line
<randomaction> 2.49b is already in Debian
<oussama> but in ubuntu 2.49a
<randomaction> so if you want to get in into Ubuntu you should do a merge or a sync
<randomaction> !merge
<ubottu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging
<oussama> ok thank you
<jjlee> how do I parse the latest version out of a debian/changelog?
<Laney> dpkg-parsechangelog
<jjlee> Laney: thanks
<jjlee> hmm, is there a convenient way to just print the version, not all the other stuff?
<chrisccoulson> jjlee - dpkg-parsechangelog | egrep '^Version:' | cut -f 2 -d ' '
<chrisccoulson> example in /usr/share/gnome-pkg-tools/1/rules/gnome-get-source.mk
<jjlee> chrisccoulson: I was afraid you'd say that ;-)  But thanks anyway
<chrisccoulson> why?
<jjlee> it's awkward.  The way git log does this kind of thing is better.
<oussama> what is the use of "patch" ??
<jmarsden> oussama: man patch to find out.  It says   patch - apply a diff file to an original
<DktrKranz> geser: debian #560758 seems due to some changes in LP, which seems not publish unstable anymore
<ubottu> Debian bug 560758 in ubuntu-dev-tools "False: The versions in Debian and Ubuntu are the same already during requestsync" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/560758
<oussama> is it possible to upgrade vlc from 1.02 to 1.04
<oussama> ???
<etali> oussama: The upgrading VLC question might get answered more quickly in #ubuntu - this channel isn't really for support questions.
<jjlee> If I want both a *.deb and a *_source.changes (to upload to a PPA), I have to run dpkg-buildpackage twice -- is that right?
<diwic> jjlee: you just need to upload source.changes
<diwic> jjlee: launchpad builds it for you
<jjlee> diwic: yes
<jjlee> diwic: but I also want to test locally
<diwic> jjlee: I always run both -S and -b
<jjlee> and that generates both the .deb and the _source.changes?
<diwic> jjlee: I run it twice
<jjlee> oh
<diwic> jjlee: once with -S and once with -b
<jjlee> fair enough
<diwic> jjlee: but I guess it's worth a try to specify both :-)
<jjlee> debuild says: cannot combine dpkg-buildpackage options -S and -b
<diwic> jjlee: have you tried none of them?
<jjlee> yes, doesn't build _source.changes
<diwic> ok
<diwic> I guess it's twice then
<jjlee> irritatingly, the second run, when using git-buildpackage, complains about the output of the first
<jjlee> perhaps I'm supposed to tell dh_clean about those generated files, so that it can remove them again?
<diwic> jjlee: they should be removed on clean
<diwic> jjlee: exactly if that means dh_clean is beyond my knowledge
<jjlee> on debian/rules clean
<diwic> jjlee: seems reasonable
<diwic> btw, is the PPA system down? I dput a file maybe half an hour ago and yet to receive an email (accepted or refused)
<popey> if someone wants to file a bug against the file-open dialog in their browser, what package would that go against? Nautilus?
<chrisccoulson> popey - depends on which browser
<chrisccoulson> but it's probably the GTK file chooser
<popey> firefox and chrome
<popey> http://www.flickr.com/photos/osde-info/4177039855/
<popey> see that screenshot
<popey> if it's the gtk file chooser, what package should it go against?
<chrisccoulson> popey - that would be gtk+2.0
<popey> thanks
<popey> chrisccoulson: which package though?
<joaopinto> libgtk2.0-0
<popey> yay, found an existing bug
<popey> bug 219385
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 219385 in hundredpapercuts "File filters can make file selection dialog too wide for screen" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/219385
<chrisccoulson> popey - yeah, i was just looking for an existing bug too (i was sure i'd already seen it reported somewhere)
 * popey hugs his google skills
<popey> http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=launchpad+flickr+upload+bug+dialog&btnG=Search&meta=&aq=f&oq=
<popey> :)
<popey> first hit
<popey> says something about launchpad that it's easier to search via google than via lp itself :S
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i find that searching for duplicates in launchpad really sucks
<JontheEchidna> not as bad as bugzilla, let me tell you
<nigel_nb> +1 chrisccoulson
<JontheEchidna> bugzilla's search tool is more of a way to get custom lists than to find bugs, imo :s
<nigel_nb> JontheEchidna: bugzilla is extremely frustrating, I agree
<hggdh> and the replcement for simple-dup-finder... sucks
<martoss> hey folks - two questions. First: What could be wrong if in my ppa - for a specific package - just the i386 version has been built. 2nd I've packaged two programs. So after having tested them, what's the best way to transfer them to revu?
<dhillon-v10> hi all, I want to file a sync/merge report for a package, but Debian PTS says that the package has 1 error and 1 warning: http://packages.qa.debian.org/f/fonttools.html should I proceed with the request or choose a different package
<diwic> dhillon-v10: I think most motus would accept those errors
<dhillon-v10> diwic, so just proceed :)
<diwic> dhillon-v10: the source format error is, I guess, contradictory to recent Debian recommendations of upgrading.
<diwic> dhillon-v10: lucid has autosync of Debian packages if they're unchanged in ubuntu
<dhillon-v10> diwic, so does that mean i don't have to file a sync report then
<diwic> dhillon-v10: fonttools is changed in ubuntu
<diwic> dhillon-v10: you'll have to merge it
<jjlee> thanks everybody for your tips over a couple of weeks
<dhillon-v10> diwic, hey I tried building fonttools in lucid chroot and it says: E: Failed to fetch http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/p/python2.6/python2.6_2.6.4-1ubuntu1_i386.deb: 404  Not Found [IP: 91.189.88.31 80] why would that be
<diwic> dhillon-v10: is your chroot updated?
<dhillon-v10> diwic, yah its for lucid, that's what its supposed to be right
<dhillon-v10> diwic, here: http://pastebin.com/d2f23af0e
<diwic> dhillon-v10: according to http://packages.ubuntu.com/lucid/python2.6 the correct version is 2.6.4-1ubuntu2
<diwic> dhillon-v10: try a pbuilder update for lucid
<dhillon-v10> diwic, alright :)
<dhillon-v10> diwic, is this the right command:  sudo pbuilder --update --basetgz /home/vikram/pbuilder/lucid.tgz --distribution lucid
<diwic> dhillon-v10: eh, I have configured .pbuilderrc so I run it in another way, so I don't know
<dhillon-v10> diwic, okay, anyways what does this mean: W: --override-config is not set; not updating apt.conf Read the manpage for details.
<diwic> dhillon-v10: I don't know more than you do about that error
<dhillon-v10> diwic, lol alright never mind, thanks for the information though its updating python so that must have been the problem
<diwic> anyway I need to go to bed now
<dhillon-v10> diwic, good night
#ubuntu-motu 2009-12-13
<dhillon-v10> hi all, I want to apply an ubuntu debdiff to a debian package, how would I got about doing so
<shakaran2> hi, how can I put the my app on Ubuntu here? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/tivion
<shakaran2> anybody can help me?
<prefrontal>  before the release of karmic I packaged my software (emergent) and one of its prerequisites (libquarter). i even wrote scripts to automate the process. but our software can't be built in the standard motu test environment. we require real gl, and out software doesn't work with software level mesa gl
<prefrontal>  this means i can't build our package in a ppa, and it doesn't pass the automatic package build process
<prefrontal>  here is one of my scripts: http://grey.colorado.edu/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/emergent/trunk/bin/ubuntu-motu-emergent?view=markup
<prefrontal>  its due to one of our prerequisites, Coin3d (packages in repo)
<prefrontal> it just doesn't work with mesa
<prefrontal> here is the software btw: emergent neural network simulator http://grey.colorado.edu/emergent
<prefrontal> any motu want to help me get it into lucid? please.
<prefrontal> how does one contact a motu? i have posted my plea multiple times to both the irc channels and the mailing list, and never gotten a reply
<prefrontal> i already did almost all the hard work
<ScottK> prefrontal: This is the right place, it's just that there are a lot of very busy people.
<prefrontal> how can I be sure that the next time they do a package review someone looks at my package?
<prefrontal> how come i haven't been contacted by anybody?
<prefrontal> proactively?
<prefrontal> i submitted my package to the void
<ScottK> prefrontal: You might also work on getting your stuff into Debian.  There are many more Debian developers than Ubuntu developers and once it's in Debian, it will come into Ubuntu.  Details at mentors.debian.net.
<prefrontal> thanks
<prefrontal> i submitted my package to debian, thanks ScottK
<wrapster> if a latest version of the pkg say(ver2) conflicts with an older version of the same pkg(ver1) how do i add it to the control file as conflicts?
<wrapster> Conflicts: somepkg (<=ver2)
<wrapster> is that the right way?
<ScottK> wrapster: More like << as you don't want it to conflict with itself
<wrapster> scottk: Conflicts: somepkg (<<ver2)
<wrapster> right
<ScottK> Yes, but I don't understand why you think you need this.
<dtchen> prefrontal: what does it work with?
<prefrontal> dtchen, what do you mean?
<dtchen> prefrontal: you mention it doesn't build with mesa. What will it build with?
<prefrontal> hardware gl
<prefrontal> like you get from a video driver
<dtchen> prefrontal: meaning *only* proprietary ones from e.g., Nvidia?
<dtchen> if it doesn't build from a source package, that's pretty nasty
<dtchen> (meaning if it doesn't build from Ubuntu packages)
<prefrontal> dtchen, that's not true
<prefrontal> there is an open source reverse engineering of nvidia's driver
<prefrontal> anyway, the package that doesn't work with mesa gl is already in the universe repository. Coin3D
<prefrontal> it's not our fault.
<dtchen> prefrontal: I'm not interested in playing games, politics or blame otherwise
<wgrant> prefrontal: Coin3D builds in an environment identical to the PPA environment.
<wgrant> prefrontal: So why can yours not?
<prefrontal> please try it in yours and tell me what's wrong
<prefrontal> i can't get it to work.
<prefrontal> i run my own repository, it works fine in practice
<wgrant> What is the error?
<prefrontal> can you remind me of the place where i submitted my packages to the motus
<prefrontal> the error might be there
<ScottK> !revu | prefrontal
<ubottu> prefrontal: REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<prefrontal> here are my packages http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=6847 http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/libquarter
<prefrontal> i can't get it to build in pbuilder
<prefrontal> you guys can quickly make pbuilder envs right? can you try my package please, and advise me
<james_w> prefrontal: if you pastebin the end of the output someone might be able to suggest things based on that
<MTecknology> !info openbox lucid
<ubottu> openbox (source: openbox): standards compliant, fast, light-weight, extensible window manager. In component universe, is optional. Version 3.4.7.2-5 (lucid), package size 266 kB, installed size 1432 kB
<MTecknology> !info openbox karmic
<ubottu> openbox (source: openbox): standards compliant, fast, light-weight, extensible window manager. In component universe, is optional. Version 3.4.7.2-4 (karmic), package size 279 kB, installed size 1464 kB
<micahg> how do I ignore a maintainer address complaint in debuild?
<fabrice_sp> micahg, what is the error?
<micahg> dpkg-source: error: Version number suggests Ubuntu changes, but Maintainer: does not have Ubuntu address
<micahg> it's for openjdk
<fabrice_sp> what is the maintainer address?
<micahg> OpenJDK Team <openjdk@lists.launchpad.net>
<fabrice_sp> it should be an ubuntu one
<fabrice_sp> strange: in p.u.c, it appears as Ubuntu core developer
<fabrice_sp> run update-maintainer and the correct value will be put
<micahg> fabrice_sp: it puts my address there
<fabrice_sp> well: update it by hand, then :-D
<fabrice_sp> it happens sometime
<micahg> fabrice_sp: who is it supposed to be
<micahg> somehow it got uploaded to -security like that
<fabrice_sp> Ubuntu Developers <ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com>
<fabrice_sp> debuild refuse to generate the source package is it's not correct
<fabrice_sp> so either this one is correct and debuild should be patched or it's not correct
<micahg> I'm not uploading to the archive anyways, just a PPA
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: It just warns, it doesn't refuse to build the source package.
<micahg> ScottK: I get an error
<ScottK> micahg: What release are you using?
<micahg> ScottK: karmic
<ScottK> Dunno
<fabrice_sp> it's an error: dpkg-source: error: Version number suggests Ubuntu changes, but Maintainer: does not have Ubuntu address
<fabrice_sp> and then: debuild: fatal error at line 1334:
<fabrice_sp> iirc, it only fails if you are using an ubuntu email address
<micahg> any ideas?
<_ruben> shouldnt a ppa have your own mail address in it? (just an uneducated guess)
<micahg> ah, I updated it to u-d-d
<fabrice_sp> _ruben, for a ppa, yes: that's the correct value
<micahg> hmm...I guess I could've done that
<fabrice_sp> (your own email, I mean)
<_ruben> and since micahg's working on a package for a ppa.... ;)
<micahg> _ruben: I'll keep that in mind for next time :)
<_ruben> having debuild 'understand' more version-email mappings probably requires patching debuild itself right? say i want to build -company packages using @company.com addresses
<didrocks> superm1: thanks for the change in mythbuntu-default-settings. Really quick :)
<sbasuita> Hi, I'm having a bit of trouble building a karmic package with pbuilder-dist. I first created my chroot with 'pbuilder-dist karmic create', then downloaded the source package of fldigi in karmic (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fldigi/3.11.4-1). To build, I ran 'pbuilder-dist karmic build fldigi_3.11.4-1.dsc'. However, I get a compilation error in one of the upstream sources:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/340553/ (line 861). I'm wonderin
<sbasuita> g what's wrong with my local setup that would cause this error here but not on the buildds? Thanks in advance for any help.
<geser> sbasuita: nothing is wrong with your setup. I guess it got build on the buildds before the default g++ got updated to be 4.4. several other packages have the same problem now as g++ is more iso c++ compliant than the previous versions
<sbasuita> geser, ok, thanks
<lucas> any comments about http://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu_nbs.cgi?
 * c0p3rn1c bows to the MOTU :)
<geser> lucas: looks interesting, how often does it get updated?
<directhex> lucas, handy.
<lucas> geser: the data is from full archive rebuilds, so it gets updated when I run a rebuild
<lucas> however, if a package gets updated in ubuntu, it's moved to the bottom of the page ("outdated results")
<lucas> geser: I plan to run full rebuilds every 2-4 weeks, like I do for Debian
<c0p3rn1c> I've bin having problems with gnome-do for a while, and they released a fix but it's not yet in the repository, if I package gnome 0.8.3.1 for you guys, will you put it in the general repos?
<randomaction> lucas: maybe it should be called FTBFS, because NBS usually refers to a different thing
<randomaction> !nbs
<ubottu> Some packages are no longer built from source as a result of various transitions.  The reverse dependencies of these packages require an update.  The current tracking list is available from http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS/
<randomaction> but really helpful with these additional bits of info
<c0p3rn1c> I'm talking about this bug in gnome-do: https://bugs.launchpad.net/do/+bug/395190 ihmo the fix should be rolled out ASAP
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 395190 in do "GNOME do 0.8.2 use 90% CPU when my computer startupã" [High,Fix released]
<lucas> randomaction: ok, also moved to http://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu_ftbfs.cgi
 * randomaction re-bookmarks
<Laney> c0p3rn1c: you should update it in debian
<randomaction> c0p3rn1c: if you want it fixed in Karmic, then the fix should be isolated and SRU done
<randomaction> !sru
<ubottu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<Laney> (has to be fixed in lucid first)
<c0p3rn1c> ic
<Laney> infact RAOF already prepared the update
<c0p3rn1c> ok great
<c0p3rn1c> how did you know this?
<c0p3rn1c> Laney,
<Laney> I looked in SVN
<c0p3rn1c> svn history?
<Laney> if you like
<c0p3rn1c> Laney, is there already a package with the fix available then ? and where ?
<c0p3rn1c> Laney, I don't understand, svn is for managing source code, what does this have to do with the packaging repository?
<c0p3rn1c> the universe packages I mean
<Laney> no there isn't, but it is ready
<c0p3rn1c> Laney, yes that's why I said that they have released a fix
<wolfrage> So if some one want to get involved in MOTU would this be the right place?
<pochu> yes
<etali> Wolfrage:  This is the right place to ask specific questions about MOTU.  For a general overview, check out some of the wiki links in the topic.
<wolfrage> copy that thanks
<etali> If you're unsure about any stuff in those links, people here will point you in the right direction (I'm just getting started on MOTU stuff, there's a lot to read, but the experienced peeps in here are helpful).
<fabrice_sp__> I fixed a FTBFS of a package that I'd never been built in Ubuntu, and the binary has been 10 days in the NEW queue. Is it normal? It's maven-repository-builder
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: Yes.  This cycle archive admins have spent a lot of time dealing with blacklisting v3 source pacakge format packages and so other stuff is behind.
<fabrice_sp> ok. Do we have a date for V3 source package package support in Ubuntu?
<ScottK> Next week is the current plan.
<Laney> the code landed in launchpad
<Laney> apparently buildds and scripts are a different matter
<fabrice_sp> ok. Thanks!
<fabrice_sp> I'm trying to review a merge request done using bazaar, and the revision contains the debian changes as well as the ubuntu ones. Is it normal?
<fabrice_sp> this is for bug #495998
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 495998 in resolvconf "Please merge resolvconf 1.45 (universe) from Debian testing (main)" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/495998
<randomaction> I believe you are shown the ubuntu-to-ubuntu diff, so yes
<fabrice_sp> randomaction, and how can I get the debian-to-ubuntu diff? This is the really interesting one :-/
<randomaction> requires a lot of clicking
<randomaction> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mathieu-tl/ubuntu/lucid/resolvconf/lucid/revision/17?remember=1.1.6&compare_revid=1.1.6
 * fabrice_sp is not sure it's easier than a good debdiff! :-)
<randomaction> like click revision number -> "Compare with another revision" -> click Debian parent -> "compare with revision ###" -> "reverse the comparison"
<randomaction> I checked the docs at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/Documentation/UploadingAPackage and it looks like it's not making sponsor's life much easier
<fabrice_sp> I will still request a debdiff :-)
<randomaction> when I first heard about it I imagined something like sponsor clicking "Yes, I'm sponsoring this diff" in Launchpad, or maybe sending an equivalent gpg-signed email
<fabrice_sp> So do I
<Q-FUNK> I need help with bug #472468
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 472468 in cups-pdf "cups-pdf and cups-insecure-filter print error on cups 1.4.1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/472468
<Q-FUNK> the fix is already in Lucid and it's against the same upstream release as Karmic. I'm wondering whether it's possible to push that as an update to Karmic?
<joaopinto> !sru
<ubottu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<joaopinto> ops, he is out
<jbicha> why does Help>Report a Problem not appear as Help>Report a Problem...
#ubuntu-motu 2010-12-13
<ingenthr> hi, I think I'm running into a bug with libgoolge-perftools-dev on Karmic; to see if it's a known issue should I be searching Karmic on launchpad or are universe bugs elsewhere?
<ebroder> ingenthr: All bugs in Ubuntu are tracked on Launchpad
<ingenthr> ebroder: okay, so searching bugs for Karmic on Launchpad, I've done the right thing if I'm running into the issue there, right?
<micahg> ingenthr: you're better off searching for bugs in the package than bugs in the series
<ingenthr> micahg: okay, thanks
<AnAnt> Hello
<AnAnt> context 2010.07.30-1 has been uploaded to experimental, I think the reason is that they want to leave unstable as a staging place for fixing bugs for testing. Do you think it is alright to sync context (which is currently at version 2009.11.26-2) from experimental ?
<dholbach> good morning!
<AnAnt> dholbach: Hello
<dholbach> hey AnAnt
<udienz> morning dholbach
<udienz> afternoon at here
<dholbach> hey udienz :)
<udienz> dholbach: is Packaging Guide available for translating in launchpad?
<dholbach> udienz, no, it'll take a bit until we get there
<dholbach> I'll send an email out today about reviving the packaging guide
<udienz> dholbach: okay, i'll try to translating Packaging Guide in wiki
<dholbach> maybe we can re-use some of the bits from there once we have the packaging guide in LP
<udienz> dholbach: i hear moin moin can export to docbook http://moinmo.in/DocBook
<dholbach> udienz, as far as I know it's not turned on for the ubuntu wiki and I'm not sure how well it deals with includes and everything
<dholbach> I just started a discussion about the packaging guide on u-devel@
<udienz> yup. i read it
 * udienz ready to help
<dholbach> excellent - I'm keen to hear everybody's feedback on it
<dholbach> I hope folks like ReSt as much as I do - it's a lot of fun to write articles in it: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~dholbach/+junk/ubuntu-packaging-guide/files (it's quite simple)
<udienz> downloading...
<dholbach> just have a look at the .rst files (and compare the output on http://daniel.holba.ch/temp/guide/)
<nigelb> dholbach: so sphinx extends ReSt?
<dholbach> nigelb, how?
<nigelb> dholbach: I mean, the format for sphinx is ReSt (templating kida)?
<nigelb> *kinda
<dholbach> nigelb, how does it extend it?
<nigelb> dholbach: ah, ugh, I assumed wrongly that Sphinx had its own formating for writing content.  Apologies.
<dholbach> ah ok
<nigelb> And I even read this page the other day.  Sigh.
<nigelb> dholbach: If 1.1 doesn't make it to archives, can we put in a PPA and still use it?
<nigelb> err, Sphnix 1.1 that is
<dholbach> nigelb, it's in a PPA already and the way I see the guide evolving we can easily use 1.0 now and use that for getting the first articles set up, then once we have 1.1 we can add translations
<dholbach> (and maybe backport, let's see)
<nigelb> dholbach: ok, that sounds cool then, maybe you should add this bit to the discussion too
<nigelb> since it almost negates on of the CON points for sphinx
<dholbach> done, thanks nigelb
 * nigelb hugs dholbach :)
 * dholbach hugs nigelb back
<lfaraone> bdmurray: can you renew my membership in ~ubuntu-bugcontrol?
<bdmurray> lfaraone: done
<AnAnt> Hello, context 2010.07.30-1 has been uploaded to experimental, I think the reason is that they want to leave unstable as a staging place for fixing bugs
<AnAnt> for testing. Do you think it is alright to sync context (which is currently at version 2009.11.26-2) from experimental ?
<Laney> I'd ask the maintainer
<AnAnt> Laney: debbug 606656
 * Laney shrugs
<Rhonda> I'd say it's a good candidate for a requestsync from experimental.
<Rhonda> Though I really really hope that squeeze gets out before the import freeze for natty happens, otherwise natty will be in big troubles.
<Laney> December 30th? :)
<AnAnt> Rhonda: what trouble ?
<Rhonda> AnAnt: Of not having really much difference over maverick?
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: +1
<Rhonda> People are holding back upload to unstable (and in some cases even to experimental) because of the Debian freeze.
<Rhonda> So if squeeze doesn't get out the door it will affect natty quite deeply, too
<AnAnt> they hope to release by christmas
<Rhonda> Usually hope dies last.
<Laney> I think it already has
<Laney> I heard talk about January.
<AnAnt> oh
 * ari-tczew has sponsored a couple of sync requests from experimental.
<highvoltage> at least the amount of rc bugs have come down quite nicely
<Rhonda> highvoltage: Too little to make it for christmas, though.
<Laney> It needs a new d-i release, amongst other things
<Laney> AnAnt: Anyway, if you test the version and see that it works well enough then the sync won't be a problem
<Rhonda> And the closer the release comes, the more eager some people seem to be to do mass RC bug filing.
<AnAnt> Laney: I'm not much of a context user, I was hoping a context user would be around
<Rhonda> I mean, someone came around to file a bunch of RCs against logrotate using packages about an issue that was open since three years now.
<Laney> that reminds me, I have an RC to deal with (probably downgrade)
<Rhonda> Me too %-)
<Laney> life would be easier without users. :)
<Rhonda> Actually it would be less fun, too
<Rhonda> Ah, the RC is already demoted :)
<lfaraone> bdmurray: thx
<micahg> lfaraone: you're an implicit member in bugcontrol
<lfaraone> micahg: oh, oops
<lfaraone> micahg: good point
<stefanoUbuntu20> hello
<hajour> hai all i try to find TheMuso` .ore he can help with the ##speechcontrol program
<micahg> cyphermox: regarding ofono, everything was fine except I noticed one file left under .pc, if you want I can take care of this and sponsor it
<cyphermox> micahg: if you could just let me know what it was and how you fixed it
<micahg> cyphermox: I'm just going to remove the .pc dir in bzr, it was probably left over from the source format 3 reversion
<cyphermox> alright
<micahg> cyphermox: so, you want me to just fix that an upload?
<cyphermox> sure
<ari-tczew> ScottK: did you saw 2 maintainers for tor? bug 689188
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 689188 in tor (Ubuntu Natty) "Unblock Tor auto-syncing from Debian" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/689188
<ScottK> ari-tczew: I did.  I think it's been unblocked.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: That's right. Do they need to request PPU?
<ScottK> First they need to show they are able to maintain the packages.
<ScottK> They can get sponsored in the meantime.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: That's fine for me. Is tor for universe?
<ScottK> Yes
<ari-tczew> OK.
<tumbleweed> ScottK: can you reject googleearth-package from maverick-proposed, please?
<ScottK> Sure.
<tumbleweed> thanks
<tumbleweed> SpamapS: ^
<ScottK> Done
<ebroder> barry: I don't have my LP creds with me at the moment to actually comment on the branches, but if you're making actual source changes instead of no-change rebuilds, you should change the version numbers on your Python packages to ubuntuN, not buildN
<ari-tczew> that's right, we use -XbuildY only for non-changes upload (when only debian/changelog has been modified)
<SpamapS> tumbleweed: thanks to you too. :)
<tumbleweed> SpamapS: yeah I think you need to use arch: i386 amd64
<SpamapS> tumbleweed: oh, if its that easy, yaaay. ;)
<tumbleweed> well, its the easy answer, don't know if there's a better approach
<micahg> geser: is there a reason why the xubuntu package set isn't showing up on the ubuntuwire FTBFS page?
<ari-tczew> who knows, what does mean last column? http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/debcheck/debcheck.py?dist=natty&list=ALL
<micahg> ari-tczew: looks like a couple columns were added w/out the headers being updated
<ari-tczew> I don't understand these columns. What's the difference between 1st and 2nd...
<geser> micahg: does it have any FTBFS? the page only lists those package sets who have at least on FTBFS
<micahg> geser: yes, several
<geser> hmm, interesting
<geser> micahg: for some yet unknown reason the xubuntu package set isn't listed in the packagesets collection
<micahg> geser: oh, is there anything I can do to fix that?
<geser> micahg: find out why it's not listed there
<micahg> geser: where's the list?
<geser> enter "for ps in lp.packagesets: print ps" into lp-shell. That collection gets used for the FTBFS page.
<geser> the "xubuntu" package set can be queried with edit-acl.py query -P xubuntu -S natty
<geser> but it doesn't appear in that collection
#ubuntu-motu 2010-12-14
<geser> micahg: once you get the "xubuntu" package set into this collection, the FTBFS will list it
<micahg> geser: great, thanks
<pting> is there a command to preseed user/group ids? i want to sync up all the system user/group ids
<pting> nvm, i'll check with #ubuntu-server
<micahg> is bzr mark-uploaded the same as debcommit -r?
<lifeless> micahg: no, sadly.
<micahg> lifeless: so I need to do mark-uploaded before or after debcommit -r?
<micahg> hmm, it says I already marked it uploaded and I used debcommit -r
<lifeless> ah, perhaps its been fixed
<micahg> ebroder: so, I should've just uploaded those builds w/version issues?
<ebroder> doko uploaded them a few hours ago. He fixed the version before uploading
<micahg> ebroder: ah, ok
<ebroder> I'm generally in favor of just making minor fixes yourself and pointing them out to the contributor after the fact, instead of making them go through another round of bikeshedding, but opinions vary
<micahg> I did that earlier tonight for ofono, I fixed up the changelog entry a little
<dholbach> good morning!
<AnAnt> Hello, I am getting this build failure on natty: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/60640251/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-i386.drawtiming_0.7.1-2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz  , yet it builds fine in maverick. Note that both natty & maverick have the save version of graphicsmagick.
<AnAnt> build fails during linking
<AnAnt> any clues ?
<evaluate> AnAnt, I'm a newb with packaging myself, but are you sure you only need 'graphicsmagick-imagemagick-compat' in the Build-Depends?
<mr_pouit> AnAnt: probably the linking order (the .o files are after the libs)
<evaluate> AnAnt, I didn't look at the source files, but I guess you are using the functions from Magick++.h. If that's true, you might want to also include libgraphicsmagick++1-dev in the Build-Depends: http://packages.ubuntu.com/natty/libgraphicsmagick++1-dev/filelist
<mr_pouit> AnAnt: in src/Makefile.am, you should not pass the libs through drawtiming_LDFLAGS, but drawtiming_LDADD iirc
<evaluate> mr_pouit, just curios, where can you see the source files? :-)
<mr_pouit> evaluate: http://git.debian.org/?p=collab-maint/drawtiming.git for example
<evaluate> mr_pouit, thanks :-)
<evaluate> anyway, I guess including libgraphicsmagick++1-dev in the Build-Depends might fix the problem...
<evaluate> just my 0.02...
<evaluate> and yeah, the libs should normally be passed to LDADD and not LDFLAGS...
<AnAnt> evaluate: that build-dep worked for several cycles
<AnAnt> mr_pouit: the linking command line is the same in both natty & maverick
<AnAnt> actually I think it may have to do with doko's email: "gcc in natty now passes --as-needed by default to the linker"
<evaluate> AnAnt, if it works in some cases, doesn't make it correct. If your package needs libgraphicsmagick++1-dev to build correctly, you should include that in the Build-Depends
<evaluate> the same goes with the passing the libs to LDADD
<mr_pouit> AnAnt: indeed
<AnAnt> mr_pouit: seems, you got the right clue indeed
<Riddell> menesis: ping
<Riddell> menesis: how does schooltool-common relate to schooltool?
<AnAnt> mr_pouit: thanks
<menesis> Riddell: it contains some scripts to be shared between schooltool instances.
<menesis> Riddell: it was uploaded unintentionally. I plan to redo schooltool server packaging and will likely drop the schooltool-common package.
<Riddell> menesis: so I should reject it?
<menesis> yes
<Riddell> k, good thing I asked..
<Zhenech> guys, what's the ubuntu way of doing a "binNMU" (yes I know there is no such thing in Ubuntu)? just need a package rebuilt without further changes on all arches in maverick and natty
<Riddell> Zhenech: just upload it
<Riddell> or if you don't have upload rights find someone who does
<Riddell> for maverick it needs a SRU
<Zhenech> thanks to qscintille the package just segfaults after starting using, so getting an SRU permission should be easy :)
<mhall119> Riddell: got a minute?
<Riddell> mhall119: what's up?
<mhall119> couple of things about xdg-launcher
<mhall119> I've actually got the package depends fixed in later versions, but was told I didn't need to continue uploading new versions to revu
<mhall119> about the name, it uses the xdg-menus, so I thought it would be okay to call it that
<mhall119> I didn't know xdg- was a package namespace
<Riddell> mhall119: there's no formal namespace, but there are a load of scripts from xdg that are used for cross desktop purposes and I fear this could get confused as one of them
<mhall119> or at least not a reserved namespace
<mhall119> I didn't want to call it qimo-launcher, because it's more general than just Qimo
<mhall119> so is a name change really necessary?  I've already got a project by that name registered with LP
<mhall119> or is it just the name of the /usr/bin/xdg-launcher file that you're concerned about?
<Riddell> I'm concerned about both the package name and the binary file name
<mhall119> the only xdg-* package names I see on Maverick are xdg-utils and xdg-user-dirs
<Riddell> yes, and this sounds a lot like it's related to xdg-utils
<Riddell> it could be an alternative name for xdg-open
<maco> it sounds like a cross-DE version of gnome-open or whatever the kde command for that is
 * maco should probably learn that command, now that she's a kde user
<mhall119> okay, so what if I called it xdg-launcher-panel?
<mhall119> or xdg-panel-launcher
<Riddell> that sounds like it's a script from the XDG group to launch a panel
<maco> mhall119: panel-xdg-launcher!
<maco> then the xdg is in the middle instead of looking like a prefix
<Riddell> I'd think application-launcher-panel or application-menu-panel is more along the lines
<c2tarun> i wanted to install gnome into my chroot env. i just want to know the difference between gnome-session and ubuntu-desktop. can anyone please tell ?
<maco> im afraid you're surrounded by kde users at the moment
<cdbs> gnome-session is a package part of the GNOME desktop, ubuntu-desktop is a metapackage that installs all gnome packages
<cdbs> maco: I am here nevertheless :D
<maco> you were hiding!
<cdbs> hiding since you people were discussion KDE :D
<Riddell> actually we're discussing a gnome panel replacement
 * maco sighs in the general direction of that unfinished gnome-panel patch that will never be finished
<mhall119> it's not a replacement for gnome-panel, it's just a simple panel with XDG Menu entry launchers
<maco> ooh good for xmonad users!
<cdbs> maco: If the discussion is about Ubuntu Desktop Edition, then, as you know, we no longer need gnome-panel
<mhall119> maco: depends on what functionality they need
<cdbs> Unity is working well at such an early stage
<mhall119> it's written to replace the bottom Xfce panel in Qimo
<maco> cdbs: oh no that was an offhand about a patch i was working on a few weeks before switching to kde, to let the panel have a gradient without that stupid repeating png issue
<Riddell> mhall119: the term "XDG Menu" is horribly geeky and exposes an implementation detail.  I always call it the application menu
<maco> cdbs: it was almost 2 years ago now...and what with unity and gnome-3, itll never be
<cdbs> maco: you used to develop for ubuntu-desktop and gnome packages ? ;)
<mhall119> I think maco hacks on anything she can get her hands on
<maco> mhall119: nah just the broken stuff!
<mhall119> like I said
<maco> cdbs: ive been doing gtk stuff since 2007
<cdbs> ah, I am pretty new in the open-source scene, though I had been developing a few Windoze apps earlier
<maco> switched to kde in 2009 and just started qt earlier this year
<mhall119> Riddell: so is the hangup mostly on the xdg- part, not the -launcher part?
<Riddell> mhall119: yes
<cdbs> I got to understand the joy of developing when I moved to open-source :D
<mhall119> Riddell: on both package, /usr/bin/xdg-launcher and /usr/share/pyshared/xdglauncher.py
<Riddell> cdbs: you might be new but your nick is already obsolete, shouldn't it be debhelper7 now? :)
<cdbs> Riddell: registered :(
 * maco snickers
<cdbs> I settled with this one because it wasn't registered yet
<Riddell> mhall119: yes
<mhall119> :(
<mhall119> okay, so I'll have to go re-name everything
<mhall119> is there any kind of naming guidelines or do's and don'ts, so I don't have this happen again?
<Riddell> don't use names used by other groups :)
<ScottK> cdbs: How's courier coming?
<cdbs> ScottK: lol, the upload JUST got accepted
<ScottK> cdbs: Great.
<cdbs> the moment I got the mail, I was like : Lets tell ScottK
<cdbs> :D
<ScottK> We all make mistakes, it's what you do about fixing them that counts.
<cdbs> if you are subscribed to natty-changes, you would have the mail there
<cdbs> ScottK: yup, I agree
<cdbs> soryr for the late response, I am busy in school work nowadays
<c2tarun> cdbs: to install the desktop should i install ubuntu-desktop or gnome-session will just do it?
<cdbs> c2tarun: ubuntu-desktop is what I would recommend, but that would mean installing a large number of packages
<c2tarun> cdbs: ok  i m installing gnome-session right now, if needed can i remove it and reinstall ubuntu-desktop
<cdbs> c2tarun: if you want ubuntu-desktop, you would simply need to install that
<cdbs> no need to remove -session
<c2tarun> cdbs: thanks :)
<c2tarun> cdbs: i installed gnome-session and exported display to a Xnest screen, now when i tried to start gnome-session i got this error   http://paste.ubuntu.com/543606/   can you please take a look
<c2tarun> cdbs: i installed gnome-session and exported display to a Xnest screen, now when i tried to start gnome-session i got this error   http://paste.ubuntu.com/543606/   can you please take a look
<cdbs> c2tarun: sorry, I can't help
<cdbs> c2tarun: ask that in #ubuntu
<DiegoTc> hi guys
<hmca> hello , i'm having some problems upgrading my system to python 2.7 under ubuntu, it's a server.... http://pastebin.com/KVbjW8Bt
<ScottK> hmca: Ask doko on #ubuntu-devel about that.
<hmca> ScottK:thkx
<hrw> hi
<ScottK> tumbleweed: If the remaining change in https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/claws-mail/3.7.8-1ubuntu1 was "debian/pacthes/series, removing buggy messages from M-o-M" - Why didn't you just sync?
<ScottK> Hello hrw
<hrw> how much ftfbs page is current?
<tumbleweed> ScottK: aarrgh, he got the changelog wrong, I reviewed that one about 5 ttimes today on IRC and thought it was finally right
<tumbleweed> ScottK: the body of the patch is right, though
<ScottK> tumbleweed: OK.
<ScottK> hrw: It's ~current as of today.  I think it refreshes every 6 hours.
<hrw> thx
<geser> hrw, ScottK: http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/ftbfs/ refreshes hourly
<ScottK> geser: Thanks.
<hrw> thx geser
<hrw> can someone take a look at shadow package? it ftfbs on every arch in natty
<hrw> patch 495_stdout-encrypted-password does not apply - http://pastebin.com/jdSXLcbG is my version of it but I am not sure is it proper
<ScottK> hrw: I guess talk to ogra.  He uploaded it.
<hrw> ScottK: ogra is on holidays now
<hrw> but will try to catch him next time
<ScottK> OK.  Someone on his team.  Looks like a bit of a mess to sort due to patches not applying.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: where can I find steps to backport?
<ScottK> !backports | ari-tczew
<ubottu> ari-tczew: If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they may go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging
<ari-tczew> ScottK: do I have to upload my backported package to my PPA? or rather upload to Backports PPA is enough?
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Neither are required if you are testing it yourself.  As long as the bug says it builds/installs/runs and you've attached any needed debdiff (usually not needed), that's enough.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: do I have to prepare a debdiff to modify debian/changelog?
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Not if that's all that
<ScottK> is needed
<ari-tczew> perhaps yes
<ari-tczew> ScottK: do I have to affect source package in Ubuntu? (I mean about bug created in maverick-backports)
<ScottK> No.  It's preferred you don't.
<evaluate> if I have a package that was uploaded to debian, do I need to wait for it to get out of NEW to request a sync in ubuntu or can I request a sync even if it's in NEW?
<ebroder> evaluate: It needs to make it out of NEW. But once that's done, it should automatically get synced to Ubuntu
<evaluate> ebroder, ok :-)
<ebroder> (Assuming it comes out of NEW before our DebianImportFreeze, which is some time around Christmas)
<ebroder> (And after DIF, you can just request a sync)
<evaluate> ebroder, hmm, not sure, it seemsto take pretty long now that debian is in freeze itself...
<ebroder> evaluate: The ftpmasters have been letting packages into unstable during freeze, although that may stop now that Debian is in deep freeze
<ScottK> They don't generally stop it, it's just a low priority for their work.
<evaluate> well, since they're approaching the release, I'm not sure they'll do anymore imports until that point, also not sure if they'll make it before christmas, since it's only a week...
<ebroder> evaluate: That's fine. After DIF, there's sort of a sliding scale in terms of how hard it is to get new packages synced in. Immediately afterwards, it's a manual process, but easy to do. As we work towards beta and RC, it gets harder
<evaluate> ebroder, well, that's my fear, that the package won't get into natty either...
<ScottK> evaluate: There's no problem getting a sync from Debian up to feature freeze, so we've got time.
<evaluate> ScottK, yeah, I sure hope they're done until Feb. 24...
<evaluate> btw, does anyone know if there are any plans to include a perl API for the Application Indicator?
<ScottK> evaluate: #ayatana is probably a better channel for that question.
<evaluate> ScottK, ok :-)
<ari-tczew> ScottK: which version should do I use? ~backport1 and target to maverick or ~maverick1?
<ebroder> ari-tczew: You know you don't upload the actual backport, right?
<ari-tczew> ebroder: I don't understand.
<ebroder> ari-tczew: What exactly are you doing?
<ebroder> Are you testing or actually trying to upload?
<ari-tczew> ebroder: prepare upload to my PPA for testing
<ari-tczew> (a backport)
<ari-tczew> and I must know what I have to use before ~ppa1
<ebroder> ari-tczew: Ah, ok. Just checking. We use ~maverick1. But check out backportpackage in lp:~broder/ubuntu-dev-tools/backportpackage
<ScottK> ari-tczew: For a test for a backport I recommend ~maverick1~ppa1.
<ari-tczew> ebroder: how it works?
<ebroder> ari-tczew: ./backportpackage --from natty --to maverick --upload ppa:ari-tczew/ppa source_package
<ari-tczew> ebroder: hmm... it seems to be not in current ubuntu-dev-tools binary. I have to download script and put it into ~/bin
<ebroder> ari-tczew: Yes, that's why I gave you the bzr branch to get it from
<ari-tczew> ebroder: http://paste.ubuntu.com/543831/
<ebroder> ari-tczew: There are some changes to the Python modules ubuntu-dev-tools ships that you need. It's probably easier to have a checkout of my branch and run backportpackage with that as your working directory
<ebroder> You could put a wrapper script in your ~/bin that does cd ~/checkout; exec ./backportpackage "$@"
<ari-tczew> ebroder: ehh... no have time
<tumbleweed> Riddell: re bug 689310, KUBUNTU_NO_DELETE_POT=1 makes zero difference (or am I doing something wrong?)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 689310 in krename (Ubuntu) "Sync krename 4.0.5-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/689310
<Riddell> tumbleweed: /usr/lib/kubuntu-desktop-i18n/debhelper/kubuntu-debhelper-langpack-clean.sh says it does rm -rf po/*.pot
<Riddell> of course it only does that on the build daemons
<tumbleweed> Riddell: I tested in a launchpad chroot
<tumbleweed> I do saw that code, I just don't see it actually having any benefit
<tumbleweed> s/do//
<Riddell> well it's arguable but if it deletes the file it'll make a debian-1.2.3.diff patch and that could get messy
<tumbleweed> that's what I tested, look at the debdiff on the bug
<tumbleweed> it creates that either way
<tumbleweed> so, either KUBUNTU_NO_DELETE_POT isn't what this package needs, or it's not working as expected
<Riddell> tumbleweed: you ended up with a great big ugly krename-4.0.4/debian/patches/debian-changes-4.0.4-2+no+delete+pot1 file
<tumbleweed> Riddell: and an almost identical +unchanged1 file
<tumbleweed> same size, different timestamps
<Riddell> hmm well, best convince JontheEchidna, he's the one who added it
<tumbleweed> heh, I'll prod him. I don't like maintaining a delta just for cleaning correctly, esp when it doesn't clean correctly
<JontheEchidna> KUBUNTU_NO_DELETE_POT=1 is no longer needed, as pkg-kde-tools no longer does l10n stripping for universe packages in the archive
<Riddell> i lose
<Riddell> reopen the bug then
<tumbleweed> hehe, thanks for keeping an eye out, though
#ubuntu-motu 2010-12-15
<micahg> hi cyphermox
<cyphermox> hey micahg
<micahg> cyphermox: did you get my notes on ofono?
<cyphermox> yep, if you mean those in the merge request?
<micahg> cyphermox: yep
<DEKiMA> What does MOTU stand for?
<porthose> DEKiMA, Masters Of The Universe https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
<DEKiMA> Ok. Haha...
<DEKiMA> Ok, then I may belong here.
<DEKiMA> I would like to see a package in the multiverse repo updated. Can I help with that? I know how to package it, that was pretty easy looking since I have plenty of Unix-like OS experience and computer experience in general.
<maco> yeah just generate a new source package for the new version. make it for 11.04 since thats the development version
<DEKiMA> Correct.
<DEKiMA> How can I submit it to be added to the repository?
<DEKiMA> Or to being the process of submitting it.
<maco> since the old package already exists, i think just uploading the source pakage to  bug on launchpad saying "update foo to version bar in multiverse" and subscribing sponsors should work
<maco> totally new packages go through revu
<ari-tczew> and add tag 'upgrade;
<DEKiMA> Oh ok. Sheesh I made an entire new project page. I'll delete that.
<maco> theres tags for type of upload to be sponsored?
<ari-tczew> maco: to type a bug
<maco> whend that happen?
<ari-tczew> it's not related to sponsorship
 * ari-tczew is off to bed, bye.
<DEKiMA> One question I need to ask is, can I create the source package on a non Debian based OS?
<DEKiMA> I currently run Slackware and I believe I have all of the prerequisites except for apt or dpkg.
<DEKiMA> However as I am simply downloading the source and packaging it for Ubuntu, I don't need to gather dependenies.
<DEKiMA> For myself that is.
<udienz> DEKiMA: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete#Packaging%20from%20Scratch
<udienz> DEKiMA: do you like videos? dholbach makes great videos http://youtube.com/watch?v=zKLabbXTqMc http://youtube.com/watch?v=SwTp1YnehoI
<maco> oh yes!
<maco> dholbach's videos are how i learned to package :P
<DEKiMA> I watched those videos. That's how I got interested in doing this.
<maco> DEKiMA: well youd be expected to do a test build of the package
<maco> so if you could get an ubuntu vm or something...
<DEKiMA> On Ubuntu?
<maco> or debian
<DEKiMA> Ok.
<maco> but need to check that the source package to binary package conversion goes over properly
<DEKiMA> I don't have a problem install Ubuntu again. But I just didn't want to go to more work than I needed to.
<DEKiMA> sed 's|install|installing|'
<maco> well...hmmm
<DEKiMA> Thanks, maco :)
<maco> could manually execute the debian/rules file i suppose...
<maco> but without dpkg-buildpackage or debuild im not sure how itd kick out a deb
<DEKiMA> No that's ok haha. I'll just install 10.10. That is the version I want to use correct? Even though I'll submit it for 11.04 which isn't out yet?
<maco> hmm speaking of slackware...
<maco> oh actually
<maco> instead of having a vm
<maco> what you can do is have an sbuilder or pbuilder chroot
<maco> which does a clean chroot'd build, so that the build dependencies are tested too
<DEKiMA> I'm sorry?
<maco> pbuilder & sbuilder are two tools that make minimal chroots of ubuntu (or debian or whatever) and you can give them the source package and they'll download the build dependencies, try the build, and spit out a deb if it worked
<udienz> maco: i have a little bash script http://paste.ubuntu.com/543879/ helping me when i build in pbuilder
<DEKiMA> I see.
<maco> (and then they delete the build dependencies so you always have a clean chroot instead of ending up with cruft that keeps you from knowing whether you listed build dependencies correctly)
<maco> ive never used them outside of ubuntu (since well... ive never stuck with any other distro more than a month) but i doubt chroot works differently on slack than on ubuntu :)
<DEKiMA> Haha I'm very much the same way.
<micahg> Riddell: bug 678283 was marked fix released, but I don't see it on launchpad as a source package in natty
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 678283 in Ubuntu "Sync python-pyproj 1.8.8-2 (universe) from Debian experimental (main)" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/678283
<hajour> hai all. i hope i am not shal disturb your time.i just want to ask ore someone wish to help us with the speech control voice command program with realistic voice
<hajour> to let show who i am just read my wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/hajour
<hajour> i am from the accessibility team
<micahg> hajour: how can I help you?
<hajour> the team need help in time for to bind  programs and advice
<hajour> they are not so sure witch program is the best
<hajour> a little advice should be welcome
<micahg> I'm sorry, I don't understand
<hajour> bind=combine
<hajour> maybe if you want to come to the channel because i am not a programmer
<hajour> they can say it better
<hajour> sorry for my bad english
<micahg> hajour: which channel?
<hajour> ##speechcontrol i now the channel have 2 ## but that is because they wanted a other name
<hajour> but phillw can tell you that to
<dholbach> good morning
<hajour> bye all and thanks
<geser> micahg: see bug 690356
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 690356 in Soyuz "The "xubuntu" packageset is missing in the lp.packagesets collection (LP API)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/690356
<Riddell> micahg: python-pyproj is in New queue
<micahg> Riddell: I forgot about that, sorry :(
<highvoltage> dholbach: the 16th of Debianber? :)
<dholbach> highvoltage, I'm VERY stoked
<dholbach> :-P
<dholbach> (oops :))
<micahg> geser: thanks
<ari-tczew> ebroder: ping
<smallfoot-> package 'rhyme' was in dapper, hardy, karmic, now its gone, why?
<micahg> smallfoot-: dead upstream according to Debian
<smallfoot-> but its was useful for me
<smallfoot-> a dictionary isnt something that gonna get less useful cuz its dead
<jpds> smallfoot-: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=553720
<ebroder> ari-tczew: pong
<smallfoot-> well i downloaded the .deb for karmic from packages.ubuntu.com and installed that
<smallfoot-> so fuck that
<ebroder> Though still working through backlog, so may be another minute
<jpds> smallfoot-: Alright.
<ari-tczew> ebroder: I downloaded your full branch, but it still doesn't work
<maco> hey hey language...
<smallfoot-> i can use whatever language i want, im a gangster, ubuntu is made for black ppl
<ari-tczew> rofl
<ebroder> ari-tczew: Can you pastebin the output?
 * maco rolls eyes
<ari-tczew> ebroder: http://paste.ubuntu.com/544127/
<ebroder> ari-tczew: And backportpackage is a wrapper script that sets your cwd to the branch then runs backportpackage?
<ari-tczew> ebroder: cwd?
<ebroder> ari-tczew: current working directory
<ari-tczew> ebroder: I downloaded your branch (by bzr branch)
<ari-tczew> I went there
<ari-tczew> and run command - rest you have on pastebin
<ebroder> ari-tczew: If you're running "backportpackage" and not "./backportpackage", then you're running the one you put in ~/bin, not the one in the branch (it makes a difference)
<ari-tczew> ebroder: yes, you're right
<ari-tczew> ebroder: Please check the package in file:///tmp/backportpackage-9jCjux carefully
<ari-tczew> but this file is not exist
<ebroder> ari-tczew: It's a directory, not a file
<ari-tczew> ebroder: anyway, doesn't exist
<ebroder> ari-tczew: Did you say yes or no? The script cleans up after itself when it exits
<ari-tczew> ebroder: there weren't any question
<ari-tczew> seems like you don't know what your script is doing
<ari-tczew> I was only asked about password to sign dsc file
<ebroder> ari-tczew: I'd appreciate it if you weren't so combatative. You need to pass a --upload ppa:ari-tczew/ppa or whatever flag, otherwise backportpackage doesn't have anything to do once it creates the source package. I'll fix it to error out if you don't specify an action, though
<ari-tczew> ebroder: so, can't I see .changes file before uploading? not good, not good!
<ari-tczew> for that reason syncpackage is not welcome
<ebroder> ari-tczew: No, if you pass a -u option, it will build the source package, give you that "please go inspect" message, then prompt you whether you actually want to upload the package or not before actually doing so. That's the point that you can see it
<ari-tczew> ebroder: how should looks coomand with -u ?
<ebroder> ari-tczew: -u is the same as --upload
<ari-tczew> omg
<ebroder> So something like ./backportpackage --from natty --to maverick --upload ppa:ari-tzcew/ppa clementine
<ebroder> It won't automatically upload without asking you first
<ari-tczew> ebroder: I suggest you to reconsider ~ppa0 instead ppa1
<ari-tczew> always one revision to go :)
<bdrung> ari-tczew: i prefer ~ppa1
<Laney> Those two sets are isomorphic
<ebroder> ari-tczew: I've always used ~ppa1. Just like Debian uses -1, and we use ubuntu1 or ~maverick1
<bdrung> ari-tczew: you can see the .changes file if you use syncpackage - the reason for not being welcome is a different
<ari-tczew> ebroder: for SRU/security we use ubuntu0.1 :)
<ebroder> ari-tczew: But it's the .1 that matters, not the 0
<ari-tczew> does anybody work on maverick? I'm looking for testers to test Clementine music player
<Laney> the point is that ubuntu0.1 is less than ubuntu1
<ari-tczew> ebroder: would be nice to add a flag -bug
<ebroder> ari-tczew: I don't understand what that should do
<ari-tczew> ebroder: support launchpad janitor closing bugs, like in syncpackage
<ebroder> ari-tczew: I don't want to encourage using backportpackage for actually doing real backports. Those should be done by the AA's, who have their own way of closing bugs (just like with syncs)
<ari-tczew> bdrung: what do you think about it? ^^
<bdrung> ari-tczew: i see no need for specifying a lp bug
#ubuntu-motu 2010-12-16
<ebroder> Whoa...
 * ebroder has never seen a Malone: #123 closer before
<kaushal> hi
<kaushal> which package contains unbuffer command in 8.04
<kaushal> I did install expect-dev
<kaushal> and also expect
<kaushal> when i say unbuffer it says command not found
<micahg> kaushal: it's a sample expect script not a binary
<kaushal> ok
<kaushal> so where do i have to copy it ?
<kaushal> so that it becomes available for all users
<micahg> kaushal: that's a question for #ubuntu
<kaushal> ok
<kaushal> micahg: Thanks
<ebroder> udienz: ping?
<udienz> ebroder: yup
<ebroder> udienz: I'm looking at your bug #690927. Do you know anything about how translations work with Debian? (I don't)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 690927 in tpb (Ubuntu) "Please merge tpb 0.6.4-6 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/690927
<udienz> ebroder: not much but little
<ebroder> udienz: I'm slightly hesitant to pull in a new translation without any review - I'd be a lot happier if the new translation came in through Debian
<micahg> http://i18n.debian.net/l10n-pkg-status/t/tpb.html
<udienz> ebroder: hm.. okay, so i must remove po files?
<udienz> micahg: thanks
<micahg> udienz: I think you just need to file a bug on the BTS with the appropriate tags
<ebroder> udienz: http://www.debian.org/doc/developers-reference/l10n.html#l10n-faqtr
<ebroder> There's a debian-l18n-indonesian list on lists.debian.org. That would be a good place to look for review
<ebroder> I wouldn't mind including the new translation as much if it had been vetted
<udienz> micahg: ok i will submitting to debian now
<ebroder> udienz: I also have some other comments I'm pulling together; just wanted to see if you were any better informed about Debian's l10n efforts than me before I tried to chase down information
<udienz> ebroder: i come from debian-l18n-indonesian
<udienz> i'm stuff at debian-l18n-indonesian
<ebroder> udienz: ...oh. Well, then :)
<micahg> udienz: I was wrong, it's supposed to go through peer review on teh appropriate l10n list before inclusion is requested
<udienz> ebroder, micahg: hm.. i take wrong way.. followong developer-reference "As a maintainer, never edit the translations in any way"
<ebroder> udienz: That's referring to the package maintainer editing translations they get from the l10n teams
<udienz> so if debian-l18n-indonesian submitting via list l10n it can be approved? and we can including it?
<udienz> i mean approved bu ubuntu-sponsors
<udienz> *by
<ebroder> If you submit the translation to debian-l18n-indonesian, and the other people on the list review and approve it, then yeah, I'd have no problem sponsoring it in Ubuntu, with the assumption that it would go directly into Debian (and it would no longer be in our diff) after Debian releases
<micahg> udienz: as a general rule, unless there's a rush, it's always better to try to get it in through Debian first
<udienz> ebroder: po files has been sended to debian-l18n-indonesian
<ebroder> udienz: Great, thanks
<udienz> micahg: what the meaning of rush? i mean what conditions to make a package is rush
<micahg> udienz: well, it's subjective, if it's not that something's broke, or we're near a freeze, and the Debian maintainer is responsive, the problem is when we make changes in Ubuntu, it requires a developer to review the changes again when Debian updates, so if it's pushed through Debian, it won't require someone here to review it again
<udienz> micahg: hm.. ic ic.. understood..
<udienz> ok i know, if we make changes and Debian change it we make a ton of job every 6 month
<micahg> udienz: right, but that's not to say that we don't take changes, it's just one should think whether or not it can wait for the next Debian version to be released
<ebroder> udienz: Or potentially more often than every 6 months, since we like to try and stay in step with any updates Debian releases over the course of our development cycle
<udienz> ups sorry i missing not at "Debian change" => Debian bot change it
<udienz> *not
<dholbach> good morning!
<udienz> i have questions
<udienz> how to merge changelog?
<ebroder> udienz: The easiest way is with bzr merge-package
<udienz> ebroder: hm.. and aother way?
<ebroder> udienz: Use http://merges.ubuntu.com, which will merge the changelog for you
<ebroder> udienz: Or use dpkg-mergechangelogs
<micahg> udienz: grab-merge if it's on merges.u.c
<udienz> ebroder: yu, i use ./grab-merge.sh for last package
<udienz> *yup
<udienz> dpkg-mergechangelogs: command not found
<udienz> hm.. which package i can get dpkg-mergechangelog command?
<ebroder> udienz: http://pastebin.com/qZEirbQS
<AnAnt> Hello
<AnAnt> fabrice_sp: ping
<AnAnt> fabrice_sp: what do you think about syncing luatex 0.65.0-1 & context 2010.07.30-1 from experimental ?
<geser> udienz: or "merge-changelog" from ubuntu-dev-tools
<udienz> geser; wow thanks! i'm very frustrated while installing dpkg-dev (1.15.8.4ubuntu3) at lucid
<udienz> oke lets me try merge-cgangelog
<AnAnt> tumbleweed: ping
<AnAnt> tumbleweed: nevermind
<Rhonda> cool version string: 4:2.0.3-kde4.4.0really2.0.2-kde4.4.0-0ubuntu1
<Rhonda> Actually the package kmldonkey doesn't seem to ever be able to get back into sync state unless the debian maintainer of the package can get convinced to also add the epoch?
<ScottK> Once 2.0.4 gets released it can.
<Al_1> hi guys. I'm using tkgate and I've noticed a 2yo bug that seems fairly easy to fix upstream https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tkgate/+bug/307220 . Can someone fix this? thanks :)
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 307220 in tkgate (Ubuntu) "Error when tkgate starts simulator " [Undecided,New]
<sagaci> dholbach: thanks for the ustream getting started with ubuntu development, you did a good job with explaining why we need each things rather than just setting out to copy/paste commands, however you do need to fix your second slide to read "gpg --gen-key", not "gpg --key-gen" :)
<Rhonda> ScottK: No, it can't.
<Rhonda> ScottK: That would still leave the 4: epoch in ubuntu and none in Debian - or can a sync cope with that?
<ScottK> Oh.
<ScottK> I didn't realize Debian had no epoch at all.
<ScottK> You're correct.
 * Rhonda really wonders why the epoch was introduced in the first place.
<ScottK> Sorry for the noise.
<Rhonda> And there is no changelog for that version on changelogs.ubuntu.com btw. :)
<Rhonda> just the copyright file
<hrw> hi
<hrw> if package is in -proposed can anyone change verification-needed into verification-done or can it be done only by sru-reviewers team?
<hrw> sru-verification team I meant
<dholbach> sagaci, ah thanks - will do
<dholbach> sagaci, done
<hrw> ok, one package verified in -proposed
<ari-tczew> sladen: is +nmuX versioning welcome in Ubuntu? I didn't hear. https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mountall/2.20+nmu1
<sladen> ari-tczew: not generally.  But in this case I wanted to sponsor the offered debdiff as-is; normally we'd send that to Debian, but for mountall Ubuntu is upstream
<ari-tczew> sladen: then I prefer to use 2.20.1 or similiar
<ari-tczew> we have not maintainers for packages in general :)
<sladen> ari-tczew: indeed, I repeat.  We don't have maintainers.  It was purely that I wanted to sign the offered debdiff verbatium, and not detract from whatever Debian coaching they are getting just because the upstream happens (for this single package) to be Ubuntu
<ari-tczew> sladen: odd, but okay, I'm not an archive admin to rate versioning quality.
<den_> ÑÑÐ°)...ÐÑÐ¸Ð²ÐµÑÑÑÐ²ÑÑ Ð²ÑÐµÑ!
<ari-tczew> !english
<ubottu> The #ubuntu, #kubuntu and #xubuntu channels are English only. For a complete list of channels in other languages, please visit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList
<ari-tczew> !english | den_
<ubottu> den_: please see above
<den_> oh sorry my english so bad
<hrw> question: if rebuild of package is required (no changes) then what is proper procedure? bump version and ask for sponsorship?
<ari-tczew> hrw: could be
<hrw> thx
<geser> hrw: yes
<AnAnt> Hello, what is the patch pilot ?
<ari-tczew> AnAnt: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/CodeReviews#Patch%20Pilots
<ari-tczew> maybe ubottu should gain option !patchpilot :>
<AnAnt> ari-tczew: thanks
<ari-tczew> np
<MTecknology> persia: hey.. I was tidying up my system and ran across a script - you might remember me talking about it some and i thought you might be interested in it - http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/544513/
<ari-tczew> mr_pouit: what do you think about sync xfswitch-plugin ?
<ari-tczew> or merge if necessary
<mr_pouit> ari-tczew: useless, gdm3 doesn't exist in ubuntu
<micahg> paultag: Do you know about etckeeper?
<paultag> micahg: I don't :)
<paultag> micahg: let me look into it, thanks :)
<paultag> micahg: my git solution is a bit of a kludge ;)
<micahg> paultag: ah, that explains, cd /etc; git init :)
<paultag> Oh cool! it supports git :)
<micahg> paultag: it supports whatever you want :)
<paultag> micahg: thanks! That rocks :)
<micahg> paultag: just a warning, Debian default is git, Ubuntu default is bzr
<paultag> Oh shucks :), well that can be patched around
<ari-tczew> is there anybody who can test backported package on maverick?
<micahg> paultag: it's a conffile
<paultag> micahg: ah, even better :)
<micahg> paultag: it also adds hooks to the package manager, so it commits before and after updates
<paultag> micahg: what did you think of the rest of the blog post? I hope I did not come off as an ass. I really tried to not joke too far
<paultag> micahg: Oh cool!
<micahg> well, people are RTing it, I hope they read it as well
<paultag> me too :)
<udienz> micahg: hello, i have any questions again
<udienz> i'm working at bugs 514401
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 514401 in Ubuntu Translations "Translations are not loaded for the test descriptions in Checkbox" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/514401
<udienz> but from lp:ubuntu/checkbox contain build/ dir
<udienz> can i remove it? i think its temporary directory that created from building
<micahg> udienz: not sure, the lp:ubuntu/foo branches have the source in it
<micahcowan> udienz, that means that the file usr/bin/ssh-keyscan doesn't appear in the foo.install file for any package, which means it won't be placed in any package, and it's an error because dh_install was told (via --fail-missing) to throw an error when that happens.
<micahcowan> Sorry, that was directed to the wrong person. :\
<udienz> micahg: no no.. no source code, but build directory. chechbox based at python
<udienz> micahcowan: no problem :)
<micahg> udienz: sorry, I don't know the python build system, but someone should grab it from the sponsors queue and let you know
<udienz> ok
 * udienz request doko to review, because he is last commiters
<micahg> udienz: it's usually best to just get it in the queue and let people review at their leisure unless it's urgent or being ignored
<udienz> micahg: can i ask from emails, i can not daily online again for one/two week
<micahg> udienz: general questions?
<udienz> micahg: yup, maybe usual questions
<micahg> udienz: try the MOTU ML
<udienz> micahg: ubuntu-motu@list.u.c?
<micahg> udienz: yep
#ubuntu-motu 2010-12-17
<fabrice_sp> micahg, if you are still interested in dolphin-emu: I advocated it yesterday, so it's only missing another look from a sponsor. You can find it at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=8783 (this apply to other sponsors as well :-) )
<micahg> fabrice_sp: well, I can review everything except the licensing, that I'm still not sure on
<fabrice_sp> micahg, licensing is the hard part of new packages
<fabrice_sp> and this one mix a lot of different ones
<mase_wk> i am packaging up some PHP libraries which are used with a framework.  I  have src( .php ) XSL and documentation. I was wondering where  each is meant to live
<glennricster> fabrice_sp:  I must agree.  Licensing is the hard part for sure.
<fabrice_sp> hey glennricster ! You can speak about it :-)
<fabrice_sp> mase_wk, have a look at a similar package to be sure you install the files in the right places
<glennricster> Yeah.  I still don't think I have it right though.  dolphin-emu has such a mess of licensing in its files.
<fabrice_sp> oh: I'll check in detail this week end, then: it's a huge work, with all that file with different licenses
<glennricster> I told the other dolphin-emu devs I would work on getting it into Ubuntu.  After this I think I will stick with coding.
<fabrice_sp> please don't disappear after having your package into Ubuntu
<mase_wk> fabrice_sp: that doesn't help me. None of the libraries have yet been packaged and i haven't foudn any other packages within ubuntu / debian that have the sort of dependance between xsl and php files
<glennricster> I will maintain it.  That won't be as hard as getting the copyright file set up.
<mase_wk> i can find other php projects so i  can copy that, just not sure where to jam the xsl libraries
<glennricster> I won't disappear.  Don't worry.
<glennricster> fabrice_sp:  I learned some new things from you in the process.  The dh.tiny format is quite nice.
<fabrice_sp> glennricster,  :-) Yeah, and easier to maintain than the full dh format, IMHO
<glennricster> Yeah, it would seem so. :)
<fabrice_sp> mase_wk, perhaps ask in ubuntu-server: they may know better than me or wait here until someone else answers you
<mase_wk> k
<Rhonda> Something seems to be going awkwardly wrong with planet.ubuntu, I see a big grey area at the top blocking out the first someting blog entries?
<cdbs> Rhonda: Its fine for me
<cdbs> I can't see any gray area
<azeem_> Rhonda: maybe that is your spam blocker which removed buxy's latest post
<Rhonda> azeem_: haha. not. And strangely, it works again. The theme seems to be switched back also, so I guess someone was working on it.
<Rhonda> When inspecing with firebug the footer div did cover the top of the page in very big parts.
 * ari-tczew is listening to: The Underdog Project - Summer Jam | put your hands up!
<ScottK> tumbleweed: Could you look into what's up with Debian bug 575581?  In the bug it claims a fix has been uploaded to Debian, but I don't see it.
<ubottu> Debian bug 575581 in postgrey "postgrey: Upgrade from Lenny to Testing fails with db error" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/575581
<djeenan> hello
<sistpoty> hm... we need more ppl. working on http://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu_ftbfs.cgi
<ScottK> We do.
<ScottK> sistpoty: There's some ongoing work to produce better documentation on how to deal with the linker issues that should be available around new years.  Hopefully that will help.
<hakermania> Hello :)
<sistpoty> ScottK: excellent :)
<evaluate> more people for?
<sistpoty> evaluate: look at the link, these are packages that fail to build on ubuntu/natty
<evaluate> sistpoty, so I get it you need people to fix those build issues? (btw, I'm new to packaging myself, I'm just trying to get more involved with ubuntu/debian)...
<sistpoty> evaluate: exactly
<evaluate> sistpoty, is there any place I could actually download a package that is listed there? (source + debian)
<sistpoty> evaluate: if you're on natty, it's just apt-get source <package>... otherwise I'm usually using packages.ubuntu.com/src:<source package name>
<sistpoty> evaluate: of course launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/<source package name> should also lead you to a link
<evaluate> sistpoty, unfortunately I need a stable system for my work, so I'm still on maverick (and will probably be for the time being)
<sistpoty> heh
<evaluate> sistpoty, say I make some changes to a package and believe that it may build correctly, is there any place I can upload it to test a build or do I need to build it locally?
<sistpoty> evaluate: you could use a PPA (certainly described in the wiki somewhere), however I prefer to build locally using pbuilder
<sistpoty> (PPA=personal package archive)
<evaluate> sistpoty, yes, I have a PPA myself, I know what that is :p I don't have any experience with pbuilder though...
<sistpoty> !pbuilder > evaluate
<ubottu> evaluate, please see my private message
 * sistpoty pets ubottu
<evaluate> sistpoty, ok, and I guess I will have to do that on natty, right?
 * evaluate opens virtualbox
<sistpoty> evaluate: you should be able to create a pbuilder-chroot on an older version. Also you can use a ppa to build for natty while on lucid for example
<evaluate> yeah, but as far as I could see (at least on my PPA), sometimes it takes up to one hour of waiting for a package to be built, I wouldn't have the nerves to wait for that while debugging a package. I guess I'll go with the virtualbox option...
<sistpoty> evaluate: yeah, that's why I build locally. however pbuilder (which essentially creates a chroot) could be used to build for a different distribution...
<sistpoty> (build locally for me means to use pbuilder btw)
<evaluate> sistpoty, I like my main system to be neat & clean, and I guess that pbuilder would also install all dependencies that a package needs, everytime I do a test run, I wouldn't want that on my main system...
<sistpoty> evaluate: no, it uses a chroot for this, not the main system
<hakermania> evaluate: After installing a package and "apt-get remove" it you can see which packages are not longer required (where dependencies of uninstalled programs)
<evaluate> I'll do it in a VB anyway, I've got the processing power :p
<sistpoty> heh, you lucky one :)
<evaluate> sistpoty, it's just a laptop, so if you have a desktop computer, you probably got more processing power than me anyway :p
<sistpoty> heh
<evaluate> hmm. Virtualbox 4 doesn't let me attach any iso images to my machines.
<evaluate> sistpoty, I did read something about a 'natty weekly build' somewhere. Does something like this exist, or did I just understand wrong?
<sistpoty> evaluate: I'm not aware of that, tbh.
<evaluate> ok then, I'll just use the alpha image I have laying around here...
<sistpoty> evaluate: there should be daily images though: http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
<sistpoty> evaluate: however I'm not too sure of what quality these are at the current phase in the development cycle
<sistpoty> (bug reports are always appreciated *g*)
<evaluate> hmm, nice
<evaluate> virtualbox 4.0 beta won't let me choose a iso to add to a virtual machine and the virtualbox that ubuntu comes with, restarts my X session :-\
<sistpoty> *whispering pbuilder at evaluate*
<evaluate> there seems to be a new beta4 of the 4.0 version, if that doesn't work either, I'm going to go with pbuilder :p
<ScottK> sudo apt-get install ubuntu-dev-tools, pbuilder-dist natty create, then pbuilder-dist natty build <pkg_version>.dsc to build.
<sistpoty> s/,/;/ s/then// might almost work as a shell script :)
<evaluate> there is still hope!
<evaluate> beta4 actually works. I'm installing it right now and will be ready to go in ~15 min :-)
<evaluate> ok, I've managed to setup pbuilder and tried downloading and building clutter-gtk.
<evaluate> and I've got a totally different error than what is on ftbfs: http://pastebin.com/xpxR9NkK
<evaluate> (I imagine though that I might just eat up your time instead of actually helping, in which case you can just ignore me)
<sistpoty> evaluate: looks like the package that clutter-gtk build-depends on changed
<sistpoty> from a quick glimpse, I'd probably mark gir1.0-clutter-1.0 as the package causing b-d's not to be installed correctly
<ebroder> bdrung: It seems a little weird for a script called "update-maintainer" to start mucking with things other than the Maintainer field
<bdrung> ebroder: really? i think it belongs together.
<evaluate> sistpoty, btw, I got the package from here: http://pastebin.com/gDBGyZXD . Not sure if it's the correct/latest one...
<bdrung> ebroder: changed maintainer => changed development location
<ebroder> bdrung: I'm not saying they shouldn't be the same tool. I'm musing about whether we should rename the tool
<bdrung> ebroder: do you have a better name?
<ebroder> bdrung: Uh... "update-control"? Not really, though
<bdrung> yes, not really
<bdrung> ebroder: btw, thanks for the backportpackage script
<hakermania> update-maintainer-and-other-things
<hakermania> xD
<bdrung> update-maintainer-in-debian-control-and-update-vcs-fields-too
<evaluate> sistpoty, is there anything I need/can do about that package, or should I choose another one?
<sistpoty> evaluate: actually, it looks like the package you installed is the correct one
<sistpoty> evaluate: I'm not entirely sure if depending packages have been rebuilt to pick up the new version already, which might explain the failure you got
<sistpoty> evaluate: I'd suggest to pick another package
<evaluate> sistpoty, ok :-)
<tumbleweed> ScottK: sure, will do
<evaluate> what would be the correct way to make a change to a source file?
#ubuntu-motu 2010-12-18
<psusi> what do you mean?
<evaluate> psusi, well, I downloaded the files from launchpad (dsc, orig.tar.gz and the diff) and got the same error like in the ftbfs. I think I know where the problem might be, just not sure how to make the changes to the source file that is affected...
<psusi> use a text editor?
<psusi> or do you mean what is the proper way to package the changes to send upstream?
<evaluate> psusi, no. I currently have only those 3 files. Do I need to unpack them, apply the diff, make the needed changes and then repackage with debuild -S ?
<psusi> well the old way of doing things was to run apt-get source which would not only download those files, but unpack them for you
<psusi> but these days it seems like everyone is using bzr
<psusi> if you want to do it the old way, then if you already downloaded the files, run dpkg-source -x to unpack iirc
<evaluate> well, it seems like I did it wrong then, I just wget'ed them from launchpad :p
<psusi> best to use bzr to checkout these days
<psusi> then most packages use quilt to track any changes to the upstream sources you make
<evaluate> psusi, would I go through the same steps after downloading from bzr that I would go through if I would do a patch for a debian package for example?
<psusi> evaluate, if you checkout the bzr branch, then you get the current source tree and the history with it...  you can then modify it, commit, then push it back to lp and request a merge.  If you download the tarball, you have to unpack it ( and apply the debian diff ) to get the source, modify it, build a new source package, which creates a new debian diff, then use debdiff to generate a diff between the two debian packages, and attach that to a bug report
<psusi>  for someone to merge
<psusi> in either case, if you make changes to the upstream source, you will need to use quilt to track those changes, assuming the package uses quilt, which most do
<psusi> upstream source as opposed to things in the debian/ directory
<evaluate> psusi, well, I downloaded the source files using bzr, as you suggested. I wouldn't want to push anything until I know that the problem is solved (and then I'd still probably better mail the maintainer)
<achiang> hm. the user chooser at the gdm login window is gone on my lucid machine. anyone know where to start investigating on that?
<psusi> evaluate, well then make sure it's using quilt, and then start a new quilt patch and make your changes
<psusi> and don't forget to dch -i
<evaluate> psusi, ok, thank you!
<psusi> if bzr bd fails to find an upstream tarball, how do you recover from this?  I don't even care about building a source package, I just want a binary to test
<soren> psusi: Do you have the tarball yourself?
<soren> psusi: If so, just put it somewhere where bzr bd looks for it, like ../build-area.
<udienz> Hi. i want to ask about merging. nginx have new patch new patch to handle "one_addr" bug. debian and ubuntu doesn't have this patch
<udienz> can i proposed merge rather than sync from debian?
<udienz> http://nginx.org/pipermail/nginx/2010-December/024235.html
<ScottK> tumbleweed: Thanks.
<psusi> soren, no, I don't have the original tarball because there isn't one.. it's pulled straight from bzr.. grub2 version 1.99~20101126-1ubuntu3
<psusi> hrm... looks like bzr bd --export-upstream should do the trick, but it doesn't seem to do a thing
<ebroder> udienz: Around?
<udienz> egroder: yup
<udienz> ebroder: yup
<ebroder> udienz: Hey, looking at your tpb merge again. Do you understand why we're complaining that you have "(LP: #12345)" in the changelog?
<udienz> ebroder: no
<udienz> i'm not understand
<ebroder> udienz: In the first debdiff you attached, you had in the changelog "* Merge from debian unstable (Closes LP: #690927)"
<ebroder> My complaint was not with the actual bug number you referenced, but with the way you referenced it
<ebroder> Does that make sense?
<udienz> ebroder: ah... my mistake.. sorry. i'll make anotehr debdiff again
<ebroder> udienz: Don't bother
<udienz> *another
<ebroder> I can fix it up. I just wanted to make sure you understood the issue
<ebroder> udienz: The rest of the diff is much better now
<udienz> ebroder: :) thanks
<ebroder> udienz: I'm going to do some work on the changelog - you understated what the "remaining changes" are in a few cases - but then I'll sponsor it
<ebroder> udienz: For instance, you said that the Ubuntu change in debian/init.d was to initialize LSB information, but if you actually look at the diff, that file is completely new in the Ubuntu version
<udienz> ebroder: http://paste.ubuntu.com/545152/ like this?
<ebroder> udienz: I think it may be clearer if I demonstrate. Give me a moment to write the changelog as I would have liked to see it
<ebroder> udienz: Actually, looking closer, I believe I see more problems than just the changelog
<udienz> ebroder: about what?
<udienz> ebroder: i will try again to fix it if you want
<ebroder> udienz: One moment, please. I need a minute to look at this more closely
<udienz> sorry :) i'll wait
<ebroder> udienz: It looks like there were several Ubuntu changes that you dropped without explanation
<ebroder> udienz: For instance, in 0.6.4-2.3ubuntu3, we added libxinerama-dev and dpatch to the build-dependencies in debian/control, and you dropped that change
<ebroder> udienz: You also dropped debian/patches/02_relibtoolize.dpatch
<ebroder> udienz: You also dropped the changes to debian/rules which caused the patches in debian/patches to be applied
<ebroder> udienz: You also dropped the "#DEBHELPER#" in debian/tpb.postrm and debian/tpb.preinst
<ebroder> udienz: And you dropped the environment variable change in debian/tpb.xsession
<ebroder> udienz: And you dropped a substantial change to src/cfg.c
<ebroder> udienz: Oh wait, forget that last bit. Looks like might it's been incorporated upstream?
<ebroder> udienz: But if that was the case, it should be documented in the changelog as well
<udienz> ebroder: okay, i will try to fixing it
<udienz> ebroder: why we neew #DEBHELPER# in debian/tpb.postrm and debian/tpb.preinst? seems like it commented and will be ignored
<udienz> s/neew/need/
<ebroder> udienz: "#DEBHELPER#" is a special placeholder. debhelper scripts use that to add code to the maintainer scripts when needed. In this case, dh_installinit adds code to the postrm and preinst
<ebroder> udienz: It's not actually a comment
<udienz> owh..
<udienz> okay
<udienz> debroder: btw, i'm not change debian/tpb.preinst,  debian/tpb.preinst only have one "debian/tpb.preinst".
<ebroder> udienz: I don't understand
<ebroder> udienz: Oh, I see. It already has a #DEBHELPER# placeholder. Yes, that's correct- there should only be one
<udienz> debroder: sorry i mean debian/tpb.preinst only have one "#DEBHELPER#".
<fabrice_sp> Hi. Reviewing dolphin-emu license, I found some files licensed under the openssl license, wheras the fulle project is under GLP-2. I read about incompatibility between both: how can I avoid it (if any)?
<fabrice_sp> the copyright file is there: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/dolphin-emu-1012132339/dolphin-emu-2.0+svn6571/debian/copyright if anyone is willing to have a look
<udienz> ebroder: done, ready to review again
<ebroder> udienz: Ok, great. I'll look in a moment
<ebroder> udienz: Did you re-sub sponsors? I don't have the bug number handy
<geser> fabrice_sp: I know that some GPL software has an OpenSSL linking exception to allow linking with openssl, don't know if something like that would help here too (I'd suggest asking #debian-legal)
<geser> I meant the debian-legal mailing list
<udienz> ebroder: yup
<udienz> bug 690927
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 690927 in tpb (Ubuntu) "Please merge tpb 0.6.4-6 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/690927
<ebroder> udienz: This is an improvement. I still have a few more issues
<ebroder> udienz: First, I don't think you need to export DH_COMPAT=3 in the debian/rules file. I'm not sure why that would have ever been there
<ebroder> udienz: And for what it's worth, this package doesn't really look like it's been well maintained, so I don't blame you for stumbling with putting it back together correctly
<ebroder> You added back some code involving devfs back to debian/tpb.postinst, as well as installing some files debian/rules. We haven't used devfs for longer than I've been paying attention
<udienz> ebroder: agree, i spend 2 two days for this package
<ebroder> udienz: I think we're getting close
<ebroder> udienz: By the way, have you been building and testing this package? Do you have an IBM computer to see if it's working?
<udienz> ebroder: yup, i have building this package, but i dob't have IBM Computer
<ebroder> udienz: I'm confused because it doesn't look like the patches in debian/patches are getting applied - and they haven't been for a while - so I'm trying to figure out why they're needed
<ebroder> udienz: Yeah. I'm pretty sure the patches in debian/patches were ever used, so I think you can remove debian/patches as well as the quilt stuff in debian/control and debian/rules
<udienz> ebrader: hm... wait i will at .deb from pbuilder
<udienz> *look at .deb
<udienz> ebroder: i got this message from first debuild. i think you right about dpatch "W: tpb source: dpatch-build-dep-but-no-patch-list"
<ebroder> udienz: I know I'm right about dpatch not getting used. What I have no clue about is how the package has managed to stay like this for 4.5 years
<ebroder> I also have no clue about what those patches were intended to accomplish, or if they were ever necessary in the first place
<udienz> ebroder: hm... so i must remove debian/patches and remove line at debian/rules about depatch?
<udienz> *dpatch
<ebroder> udienz: Yes, as well as removing the change about "patch-stamp" in debian/rules, and removing the build-dep on dpatch in debian/control
<fabrice_sp> geser, thanks. Will ask there
<udienz> ebroder: done, a patch has been submited
<ebroder> udienz: I also asked you to drop the devfs changes
<ebroder> in debian/rules and debian/tpb.postinst
<ebroder> And also debian/control (the dependency on makedev)
<udienz> ebroder: owh i see.. i think i must remove one to avoid duplicating
<ebroder> udienz: I'm starting to actually wonder if this package can be synced instead of merged
<ebroder> udienz: Because the only real changes left are debian/init.d and debian/tpb.xsession
<ebroder> udienz: And if you read the comments on bug #146987, it doesn't sound like the debian/init.d script is doing the right thing
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 146987 in tpb (Ubuntu) "tpb init script doesn't launch tpb" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/146987
<ebroder> udienz: But it's hard for me to be sure without a laptop that tpb works on
<udienz> ebroder: but referring from bug #368546 debian doesn't have init.d
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 368546 in tpb (Ubuntu) "init script doesn't launch tpb at startup" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/368546
<ebroder> udienz: Right, Ubuntu added the init script. I think that might have been wrong. Or maybe it used to be right but is wrong now
<udienz> ebroder: i have an idea, we can ask bug report to try this package with init script, if everything is okay we can merge
<ebroder> udienz: No, you're looking at this backwards. The goal should always be to sync if we can, not merge
<ebroder> udienz: One minute, let me pull my thoughts together on this
<udienz> ok
<ebroder> udienz: Ok, here's what I'm thinking:
<ebroder> udienz: We've been working on reducing the number of Ubuntu-specific changes to tpb
<ebroder> At this point, we're down to a short list of changes:
<ebroder> (1) debian/init.d, which we completely added on our own
<ebroder> (2) debian/control, we add libxinerama-dev to the build-depends
<ebroder> (3) debian/tpb.xsession, we make "$TPB -d" into "LANG=C $TPB -d"
<ebroder> (1) does 2 things at startup. It loads the nvram kernel module, and then runs tpb -d
<ebroder> Running tpb -d is definitely a bug - see the comments on #146987 - tpb is supposed to run as part of the user's session, not as a background daemon
<ebroder> And you shouldn't have to load a kernel module to detect a piece of hardware. udev should be doing that for us
<ebroder> So I don't think the init.d script is doing anything useful. But I can't be sure of that until I find a IBM ThinkPad and make sure that the nvram module gets loaded *without* tpb being installed
<ebroder> As for (2), there's no documentation in the changelog of why libxinerama-dev was added to the build dependencies
<ebroder> And as for (3), that change was made because "transcoded fonts are currently not available in ubuntu"
<ebroder> I don't really know what "transcoded fonts" are, but there's a xfonts-100dpi-transcoded package, which sounds like a transcoded font to me
<udienz> ebroder: okay, following list of changes, this packages must be sync instead of merge
<ebroder> udienz: That's what I think, but I'm not entirely sure
<udienz> one reason (maybe ~10 minute ago) to merge is init script, but you are right
<ebroder> udienz: If the nvram kernel module gets loaded automatically *without* tpb installed, then the init script is unnecessary
<udienz> ebroder: nvram loaded automatically in my laptop
<udienz> $ modinfo nvram, i got information about nvram
<ebroder> udienz: modinfo shows information about all modules, not just those that are loaded. You need to run "lsmod" and look for nvram
<ebroder> But you said you don't have a IBM ThinkPad, so you might not need the nvram module on your machine
<ebroder> udienz: In any case, it's getting late here in California, so I'm goign to go to bed. If you can find out whether the nvram module gets loaded automatically on older IBM ThinkPads, that's all we need to know at this point to figure out if it's a merge or a sync
<ebroder> udienz: I'm going to unsubscribe ubuntu-sponsors again for now since this isn't ready for sponsorship yet
<udienz> ebroder: okay, Good night.. hope you got night dream. i'll find information about vnram
<fabrice_sp> lfaraone, I saw you commented on dolphin-emu RFS (http://lists.debian.org/debian-mentors/2010/12/msg00081.html). This package is also in REVU (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/dolphin-emu): appart from the GPL3+ / GPL2 issue, is there more?
<fabrice_sp> hmmm. wrong time for that question. Will try later.
<djeenan> hello
<fabrice_sp> djeenan, hi
<fabrice_sp> exit
<fabrice_sp> oops
<cdbs> bdrung: ping, out of curiosity, what exactly was wrong in my commit?
<bdrung> cdbs: look at the diff
<cdbs> bdrung: it looks all fine here: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/ubuntu-dev-tools/trunk/revision/832
<cdbs> except for the last hunk, which was again not a big problem
<bdrung> cdbs: tabs, trailing tabs
<bdrung> cdbs: you forgot to document --buildresult in the man page
<cdbs> bdrung: isn't that understood in the last section of the manpage?
<cdbs> okay, I got what you meant
 * cdbs gets to work
<cdbs> bdrung: does cowbuilder-dist support --buildresult? or should I mention in the manpage: Pbuilder-dist only
<cdbs> done
<bdrung> cdbs: dunno
<bdrung> cdbs: does pbuilder-dist can be run without sudo?
<bdrung> ebroder: work to do: bug #691862 -> 4 bugs against backportpackage
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 691862 in ubuntu-dev-tools (Ubuntu) "upload to ppa for multi dists" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/691862
<cdbs> bdrung: yes, it can be run without sudo
<cdbs> infact, I run it without sudo always
<cdbs> it runs itself as sudo when needed
<bdrung> k
<gusnan> I am upstream of a package, and also maintain it in debian - Now I see that the powerpc build fails in Ubuntu - but I get no log or anything - what is the problem? the page where I would expect a build log just says "Failed to build".
<evaluate> gusnan, what's the name of the package?
<gusnan> evaluate, scitepoj
<gusnan> evaluate, sorry, sciteproj
<gusnan> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sciteproj/0.3.22-1/+build/2099651
<ari-tczew> gusnan: ask on #launchpad
<gusnan> ari-tczew, thanks
<popey> I have what is possibly a silly question. I have configured squid-deb-proxy on a box on my lan, and squid-deb-proxy-client on my desktop, this works fine, i can see the packages being cached on the server.
<popey> however when i use pbuilder-dist, it doesn't use the squid-deb proxy, I assume because the pbuilder doesn't know about squid-deb-proxy ?
<popey> how can I get pbuilder to use my lovely proxy?
<RainCT> popey: you can  pbuilder-foo login --save-after-login   and change sources.list in there
<popey> hmm
<popey> can i force a package to be inside the pbuilder?
<popey> like squid-deb-proxy-client ?
<tumbleweed> popey: pbuilder has an --extrapackages option
<popey> ah
 * popey reads man pages
<popey> thanks
<tumbleweed> personally, I use E-series hooks to install things I want present (like pkgbinarymangler, in Ubuntu pbuilders)
<hakermania> Hey...
<lfaraone> fabrice_sp: the issue with dolphin is that it links to NVIDIA's Cg in violation of the GPL, and that there are GPLv2 - GPLv3 licensing incompatibilities.
<lfaraone> fabrice_sp: Right now, its (probably) not legal to distribute dolphin in binary form at all. (so multiverse isn't a way out)
<gusnan_> I got the suggestion to ask a motu to trigger a retry of my build - Could somebody please take the time? This is the powerpc build of the package sciteproj I am talking about.(I am sorry, I am not familiar with the proper routines regarding this stuff.)
<lfaraone> fabrice_sp: the guy in Debian is trying to re-write the parts of dolphin which use cg.
<lfaraone> fabrice_sp: replacing wiiuse is trivial, there are libs in debuntu that do the same thing.
<BlackZ> gusnan_: done
<gusnan_> BlackZ, Thank you!
<fabrice_sp> lfaraone, thanks for the answer! About cg, the toolkit has already a dependency in multiverse (ogre-contrib), so that's why I thought this part wouldn't apply to Ubuntu
<fabrice_sp> glennricster, did you see my comment about Debian, and the previous comment of lfaraone ?
<glennricster> About cg?
<glennricster> I have talked to lfaraone before, so I had some idea this was coming.
<fabrice_sp> glennricster, and about someone working on the packaging in Debian
<hakermania> Emm, may i have an English Question? What is more correct to say? "Ever notice how ugly he seems to be?" or "Ever noticed how ugly he seems to be?"
<danohuiginn> hakermania: IMO they're both fine. Think of them as short for "[Did you] ever notice..." and "[Have you] ever noticed..."
<hakermania> Oh cool, thx
<hakermania> If any reviewer has time, please have a look at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/wallch
<hakermania> Thx in advance!
<hakermania> Ey, guys, how many MOTUs are there?
<Rhonda> launchpad.net/~motu says 153
<Leon_Wallch_Deve> hi... when i go and click about ubuntu it says: You are using Ubuntu 11.04
<Leon_Wallch_Deve>                 - the Natty Narwhal - released in April 2011 and supported until October 2012. And the problem is that now i cannot install a deb file because of an error.. How can i fix this?
<Leon_Wallch_Deve> i really do not know why it says 11.04
<Rhonda> Potential because you have put natty into your /etc/apt/sources.list file.
<Rhonda> Downgrade is not supported and pretty troublesome. I suggest either a re-install with maverick or live with having the development release and work around the trouble you have.
<Rhonda> Unless you describe your error noone will be able to help you. And actually, #ubuntu might be more suiting for these kind of questions, me thinks. :)
<Leon_Wallch_Deve> error: Requires installation of untrusted packages: The action would require the installation of packages from not authenticated sources.
<Leon_Wallch_Deve> yes i asked also the #ubuntu and #ubuntu+1
<Leon_Wallch_Deve> ok fixed :-D
<glennricster> fabrice_sp:  Are you around?
<fabrice_sp> glennricster, yes
<glennricster> If I am interpreting things correctly, you are saying that if we kill the wiiuse licensing we can get dolphin-emu into Ubuntu regardless of the NVidia Cg issue?
<fabrice_sp> this is what I think, yes, but this has to be confirmed, as we already have a package that depends on cg
<glennricster> The code that we have licensed under the wiiuse license in dolphin-emu is no longer the upstream wiiuse code.  So it seems justifiable that we could put that code under the dolphin-emu license and rename things.  The upstream wiiuse does not seem to be maintained either.
<fabrice_sp> not sure about this one
<fabrice_sp> I think you should ask to the copyright owner
<glennricster> If you base your code on something that is done in another library you don't have to put the license of the other library on it.  Perhaps state that you borrowed code ideas from that library, but you don't need the license or copyright.  This is done all the time with open source code.
<ScottK> glennricster: That is incorrect.
<glennricster> Why is that incorrect?
<ScottK> It is often done, but done wrongly.
<ScottK> If you copy code from another library it's license comes with it.
<ScottK> The only way you can change the license is if the copyright holder authorizes it.
<glennricster> I am not talking about copying code from another library.  I am talking about using the code snippets or really ideas from another library.
<ScottK> (in some cases permission is embedded in the actual license such as saying code is licenses until GPL V2 and later versions, but that's rather the exception)
<ebroder> glennricster: "using code snippets" is copying code
<ScottK> If you do a complete reimplementation of concepts then it's OK.
<glennricster> ScottK:  That is what I am talking about.
<ScottK> glennricster: OK.  Then I guess I misunderstood what you meant by "base your code on something".
<glennricster> If you look at the wiiuse code that we have, it already pretty much is a reimplemantation of what wiiuse was upstream.  There are just a few things that we would need to change to make it not at all copied code.
<ari-tczew> bdrung: could on look on package xmp, whether can I drop changes to disable build audacious?
<ari-tczew> package built fine without these changes
<fabrice_sp> ScottK, and about cg? dolphin-emu is linked again nvidia-cg-toolkit, but is GPL
<fabrice_sp> and according to lfaraone, this is not compatible
<ScottK> GPL linking against non-GPL compatible libraries is just plain not distributable.
<fabrice_sp> ok. glennricster ^
<glennricster> So we will have to implement GLSL to get dolphin-emu in?
<bdrung> ari-tczew: ?
<ari-tczew> bdrung: I asked you because you are familiar with xmp. doko has added a change to disable build audacious plugin in xmp package.
<ari-tczew> bdrung: sorry, I mean you're familiar with audacious
<bdrung> ari-tczew: xmp needs to be update to support audacious 2.4
<cemc> is it possible to use -jX when building packages with pbuilder to use multiple cores/cpus?
<lfaraone> glennricster: plus, they didn't completely reimplement it, I found about half of the code was the same.
<bdrung> ari-tczew: enable the audacious plugin and fix the ftbfs ;)
<glennricster> lfaraone:  We aren't done reimplementing it.
<glennricster> There is more to come.
<glennricster> I intend to do it myself.
<lfaraone> glennricster: fair enough. there are, by the way, perfectly good existing libraries that are compatible with dolphin's license in Debian already.
<lfaraone> glennricster: the owner of the
<lfaraone> (and ego ubuntu)
<glennricster> We don't need that sort of functionality though.  We really need what we have set up now.  The other libraries (upstream wiiuse included) do not provide the direct access to a wiimote that we need.
<lfaraone> glennricster: the owner of the ITP in Debian has been working on switching to GLSL I think, and he said he's replaced wiiuse with a compatible library. you should email him to see if you can work together.
<ScottK> cemc: Yes.  Just add -jx onto the end of your pbuilder invocation (IIRC)
<ScottK> (or maybe it was before the .dsc)
<ari-tczew> bdrung: without disabling package built fine
<bdrung> ari-tczew: is it a new upstream version?
<ari-tczew> bdrung: yes
<bdrung> ari-tczew: great
<ari-tczew> bdrung: so, can I drop?
<bdrung> ari-tczew: yes, you can drop the disabling = enable audacious plugin
#ubuntu-motu 2010-12-19
<hakermania> Hey...
<ari-tczew> does anybody run maverick? I need a test of clementine package to backport. bug 690297
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 690297 in maverick-backports "Backport clementine to maverick" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/690297
<hakermania> I run maverick, how can I help?
<ari-tczew> hakermania: follow with guide on above bug and install clementine from my PPA
<hakermania> ari-tczew: I can't figure out how to install the PPA :/. I just run  'add-apt-repository ppa:ari-tczew/testing' What about now?
<ari-tczew> hakermania: sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install clementine
<hakermania> Ok
<hakermania> ari-tczew: After testing I'll left my comment to the bug report. Right?
<ari-tczew> hakermania: right, but if you have any concerns, please talk to me first
<hakermania> ari-tczew: Ok ;)
<hakermania> ari-tczew: It is a Qt app, QtPy?
<ari-tczew> hakermania: do you asking whether package is based on python?
<hakermania> ari-tczew: No, I'm asking whether it is programmed with Qt C++ or QtPy
<hakermania> :)
<ari-tczew> hakermania: dunno, I'm not author
<hakermania> Oh, OK.
<ari-tczew> rather c++
<ari-tczew> hakermania: you can ask on #clementine
<hakermania> ari-tczew: I noticed a bug on 1)right click on song 2)delete from disk (the file was a text file named something.mp3, to see the behavior of the program to non-music files) 3) Program crashed with output http://paste.ubuntu.com/545691/
<hakermania> ari-tczew: Same with real music files
<hakermania> ari-tczew: Also it seems to be a unicode problem in displaying the lyrics info. However the song have native english lyrics. I cannot understand the reason. It is the 'Sweet Dreams are made of this' of Marilyn Manson (he is a bit psycho, I know)
<ari-tczew> hakermania: I must ask upstream
<hakermania> ari-tczew: What should I do know~?
<ari-tczew> hakermania: I'm asking second tester to check deleting files from disk
<hakermania> ari-tczew: Ok
<ari-tczew> hakermania: could you prepare a backtrace for upstream? btw. would be nice if you could join #clementine and help find bugs
<ari-tczew> !backtrace | hakermania
<ubottu> hakermania: To get a backtrace of a failing application please read: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Backtrace
<hakermania> ari-tczew:  Yes, I will, but I will may need your help, I've never did a backtrace before.
<ari-tczew> hakermania: above link is great, please try first follow with it. if you will have problem, ask here
<hakermania> ari-tczew: I'm currently reading it. :)
<hakermania> ari-tczew: 'gdb clementine 2>&1 | tee ~/gdb-clementine.txt' doesn't start clementine. gdb is installed and at the latest version
<hakermania> ari-tczew: found it.
<bdrung> tumbleweed: what do you think about the ISC license?
<bdrung> tumbleweed: "prefix = sys.argv[0].upper().replace('-', '_') + '_'" -> you should strip get the basename of argv[0]
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: can I use your sponsorship template for endorsement?
<tumbleweed> bdrung: I've also been a MIT/Expat user, although I tend to just use GPL
<tumbleweed> bdrung: oh, good point re basename
<tumbleweed> bdrung: I'm glad you are looking at it :) What do you think of the general approach? (I tried to follow devscripts style)
<bdrung> tumbleweed: confusing :)
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: the script I use is here: lp:~stefanor/ubuntu-dev-tools/sponsor-list It isn't perfect, but it finds me bugs to look at
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: ah, I mean whether can I copy and edit for me your table :)
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: the script generates the table, by mining the changes list archives
<micahg> tumbleweed: there should be a way to query the LP API to find out what pacakges were sponsored
<tumbleweed> micahg: unfortunatly there isn't, I started down that path
<tumbleweed> the closest I can get is bugs both people are subscribed to
<micahg> tumbleweed: the info is certainly in LP
<tumbleweed> micahg: yeah, but not queryable over the API (that I could work out)
<tumbleweed> another complication is archive-admin-assisted syncs, which this script misses
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: what
<ari-tczew> is the command?
<bdrung> tumbleweed: the quality requirements are raised - new code needs to have unit tests
<bdrung> tumbleweed: and please document the get_value function. in which order are which values evaluated? (and give an example).
<bdrung> from low to high: /etc/devscripts.conf, ~/.devscripts, environment variable
<bdrung> tumbleweed: would you mind releasing config.py under ISC?
<tumbleweed> bdrung: scripts get tricky to test, but yes I was considering that.
<tumbleweed> I have no problem with ISC
<ebroder> bdrung: Can I talk you into putting off your testing requirement until New Year's or so? I'm planning to have time to setup a testing infrastructure during my time off
<bdrung> tumbleweed: this script is easier to test than online requiring tools like sponsor-patch
<tumbleweed> bdrung: yeah, the library stuff is testable, the wrapper-scripts less so
<bdrung> ebroder: yes
<tumbleweed> btw, I'm not using environment variables, except through the compat_vars mechanism (copying devscripts style)
<bdrung> tumbleweed: environment variables should be always supported
<tumbleweed> bdrung: ok, that's what I was originally planning, I didn't realise how little devscripts used them
<bdrung> tumbleweed: the devscript config files should just be another place for storing those environment variables
<bdrung> ebroder, tumbleweed: delaying the setup of a testing infrastructure doesn't prevent us from thinking about testcases
#ubuntu-motu 2011-12-12
<ScottK> tumbleweed: No idea.  That was always a jdong_ tool.
<Laney> I don't think prevu is needed any more
<Laney> make sure no documentation mentions it
 * Laney has just Ã¼ber synced haskell from sid
<Laney> :-)
<psusi> dear god, I had forgotten just how terrible cvs actually was... where's the real-life remove --purge command for cvs?
 * tumbleweed watches his inbox fill up with Laney-uploads *again*
<Laney> bad me?
<tumbleweed> I guess you just got everything de-NEWed
<Laney> 21 new emails: maybe
<Laney> grr
<Laney> university is being DoSed apparently
<nigelb> By your emails?
<Laney> erm
<pmjdebruijn> hi all
<pmjdebruijn> I am involved in a project (darktable), for which I maintained Ubuntu PPAs, we do packaging together with Debian (David Bremner), currently our last stable release 0.9.3 made it into Precise
<pmjdebruijn> Our 0.9.3 release is fairly solid... and our future release schedule is unsure...
<pmjdebruijn> however, is there a way to prevent 0.10 to be imported into Precise, if it has released and packaged by Debian
<geser> you could try to get an archive admin to add a blacklist entry for this package (but it will also apply to new revisions of the current version)
<pmjdebruijn> hmmm
<pmjdebruijn> that's not entirely what I'd like
<pmjdebruijn> since I'm "upstream" as well, I guess I should just monitor the situation
<pmjdebruijn> when is the last automatic import from debian testing?
<geser> Jan 12th (see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule)
<pmjdebruijn> ah
<pmjdebruijn> thankyou
<micahg> geser: pmjdebruijn: last Debian auto import is actually Jan 9, see parenthesis
<pmjdebruijn> ah
<pmjdebruijn> right
<pmjdebruijn> tnx
<psusi> how can you find out the process group that is currently controlling a tty?
<blair> debian updated the package (rbtools in unstable) i was trying to get into ubuntu 12.04, now i just need to wait to see that the automatic sync happen?
<broder> blair: it should get autosynced shortly after it hits testing
<blair> broder, when does that happen?  i can always request a sync from unstable?
<broder> blair: packages take 10 days to get migrated to testing - you can watch it at http://packages.qa.debian.org/r/rbtools.html
<broder> you can request a sync from unstable if you think the fix is urgent - use requestsync from ubuntu-dev-tools
<blair> no, it's not urgent, i just would like it in 12.04 since i'm trying to get our 500+ desktops on the OS
<ScottK> blair: It should be fine.  Plenty of time before the deadline.
<ScottK> blair: You wouldn't happen to know if that version of the package has the changes for bzr integration do you?
<blair> ScottK, yes, it should.  The bzr branch I created has the effectively the same changes in it, but I may have redone the work inside of a Debian context instead of an Ubuntu one.  Also, the Debian maintainer put some additional changes into what's in Debian now, so it's a superset of my work
<ScottK> blair: Thanks.
<blair> ScottK, should I delete my branch
<ScottK> I think so.
<ScottK> Just double check the Debian package covers everything you were trying to do.
#ubuntu-motu 2011-12-13
<onkarshinde> Is it possible to remove certain binary from archive?
<tumbleweed> can we remove the sources that build it too?
<onkarshinde> My query is in regard to bug #903382 It will be reat if someone with more knowledge about archive look at it and let me know which is feasible approach.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 903382 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "[powerpc] Unsatisfiable dependency in oneiric" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/903382
<ampelbein_> onkarshinde: micah's suggestion looks sensible, did you try it?
<geser> onkarshinde: 1) isn't possible (archive constraint that published packages mustn't change)
<Laney> yes, just rebuild it
<geser> so your only option is to do a new SRU
<onkarshinde> Bumping the version means that I will have to work on SRU. Also the 'no change rebuild' SRUs are supposed to be clubbed with other SRUs. So I just wanted to check if '1' was possible. And 'geser' just said no. :-)
<onkarshinde> By the way, isn't this a bug if 'precise' binary got copied to 'oneiric-proposed' in case of FTBFS.
<geser> yes, checking if LP shows what happened
<tumbleweed> removing it would mean replacing the binary currently published in precise, where it *is* installable
<tumbleweed> so yes, rebuild
<geser> wouldn't precise need an upload too? to guarantee that (version in oneiric(-updates) <= version in precise)?
<tumbleweed> yes
<Laney> woe is buildd backlog
<studentz> New in MOTU & running Oneric. My q? Which dist should replace <release> (Oneric or Precise) in this command pbuilder-dist <release> create. Thanks for your patient.
<psusi> whichever one you want
<studentz> psusi Thanks.
<psusi> presumably you want oneiric if you are planning on backporting, precise otherwise
<psusi> or if you are just building to install yourself on oneiric
<studentz> Hi there: I got an error with pbuilder  http://paste.ubuntu.com/769099/       Sorry bother you. What I'm doing wrong?
<psusi> are you running ubuntu or setting up an ubuntu pbuilder on debian?
<psusi> it looks like you're missing the ubuntu archive keys... install ubuntu-keyring
<studentz> psusi running Ubuntu Oneiric .
<studentz> psusi  ubuntu-keyring already installed. Also I have a gpg  exported and ssh key.
<psusi> I usually just use pbuilder, not pbuilder-dist
<studentz> psusi something like pbuilder create or pbuilder oneiric create ?
<psusi> studentz: you have to set up a .pbuilderrc and configure it for what release and so on... I didn't know about pbuilder-dist, which looks like it handles most of that for you automatically which seems nice...
<hyperair> jtaylor: ping
<jtaylor> hyperair: pong
<hyperair> jtaylor: regarding the gtk+ backport, do you know which bugs are fixed by 2.24.7?
<jtaylor> one in easymp3gain and one in geany
<jtaylor> one moment
<jtaylor> Bug 875878 and Bug 851383
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 875878 in easymp3gain (Ubuntu) "Easymp3gain Hangs when clicking Add File or Add Folder" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/875878
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 878933 in gtk+2.0 (Ubuntu Oneiric) "duplicate for #851383 Crash when attempting to open a second file from the recent file list" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/878933
<jtaylor> its possible there there are more in other gtk2 packages
<jtaylor> its time for my first motu action :)
<jtaylor> is this correct: syncpackage -d unstable pyzmq
<jtaylor> (from unstable as precise already has zmq 2.10 so we need to upgrade, its not in testing due to a failure on arm)
<jtaylor> and I'm curious if it builds on armhf
<micahg> jtaylor: click ports on the PTS page
<jtaylor> ah it built there
<jtaylor> weird
<jtaylor> I'd still like to sync it, as right now ir ftbs on all arches in precise due to b-d zeromq < 2.10
<jtaylor> it works fine on i386 + amd64 and I plan to investigate the arm issue when I find the time
<micahg> jtaylor: sounds good
<hyperair> jtaylor: both bugs look like they come from gtkfilechooser being broken.
<jtaylor> yes that is the source of the bugs
<hyperair> jtaylor: the diff between 2.46.6 and 2.46.7 is pretty damn big. is it really not feasible to backport patches?
<jtaylor> both fixed in .7
<jtaylor> not really
<jtaylor> the patch is not small and something of the 1000 line diff can easily be forgotten
<jtaylor> pretty much the complete source file was refactored between .5 and .6 leading to the breakage
<hyperair> urgh
<jtaylor> + another huge diff to fix that again
<hyperair> i see.
<jtaylor> I'm running on .8 from precise currently
<hyperair> hm
<jtaylor> in one of the bugs is a backport attempt for the geany issue, but it does not fix the mp3gain issue
<jtaylor> fixing that will probably pull the rest of the .7 changes
<hyperair> i see.
<hyperair> with geany, there's actually a workaround upstream that fixes the issue, but the diff for that is nontrivial and involves some refactoring again.
<hyperair> jtaylor: huh, i see a patch in gtk+ that already fixes the filechooser issue with geany, and i can't seem to reproduce it here.
<hyperair> werid.
<jtaylor> yes its incomplete
<jtaylor> I could still reproduce it with the patch
<jtaylor> as a few others but not all
<hyperair> i see.
<jtaylor> great pyzmq fails on the archive builders but works fine in my chroot ...
<ScottK> jtaylor: build log?
<broder> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/87386428/buildlog_ubuntu-precise-i386.pyzmq_2.1.10-2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<broder> there are...a lot of test failures there
<broder> unfortunately the output from the test suite isn't very useful
 * Zhenech_ smells some network-needing tests and your buildd-chroots forbidding it and then disappears
<jtaylor> it should not need network
<jtaylor> its the same testsuite as all versions before which worked fine on the builders
<broder> it is using network - at least one of the failures is from binding to 127.0.0.1
<broder> but that should work
<broder> i wonder if the buildd's network access is firewalled off in some dumb way that causes problems
<tumbleweed> I've never seen binding to 127.0.0.1 be a problem before
<tumbleweed> hrm, SpamapS is talking about similar problems in #ubuntu-devel
<ajmitch> I've seen binding to localhost fail, and binding to 127.0.0.1 succeed
<ajmitch> iirc that was because of buggy ipv6 code
#ubuntu-motu 2011-12-14
<kaushal> hi micahg
<kaushal> I am hit with this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kickseed/+bug/548617
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 546929 in linux (Ubuntu Lucid) "duplicate for #548617 most PATA/SATA modules missing in Lucid netboot" [Critical,Fix released]
<kaushal> Any fix is available for this bug ?
<micahg> kaushal: according to this it was fixed before lucid was released
<kaushal> ok
<kaushal> micahg: not sure although
<kaushal> I am using PXE to install lucid 10.04.3
<kaushal> micahg: as per comment #10 it says use new debian installer
<kaushal> does that fix the issue ?
<micahg> kaushal: I have no idea
<EvilResistance> micahg:  you wouldnt happen to know where the debian support home is would you?
<EvilResistance> for IRC
<micahg> EvilResistance: #debian-support on OFTC?
<EvilResistance> thanks
<kaushal> micahg: where do i seek further help ?
<micahg> kaushal: #ubuntu-installer maybe (idk if they do support) or possibly #ubuntu
<kaushal> ok
<kaushal> micahg: is there a search feature for ubuntu bugs ?
<kaushal> I mean similar to google
<nitinab> Hello room, i am new at gui programming and was wondering what would be the way to go about learning it and writing a simple application that i have in my head. Option right now are Glade/Python or Qt4/python
<pmjdebruijn> nitinab: if Ubuntu is your main target I'd highly suggest Glade/Python
<pmjdebruijn> since most Ubuntu apps are Gtk
<RAOF> nitinab: Well, GTKBuilder/Python.  Qt/python is also perfectly acceptable.  I've only ever really done GTK development, though.
<broder> i've always found gtk's layout model to be unfathomable, but could trivially make qt lay things out the way i wanted
<nitinab> what i am doing right now is glade/python, but i was wondering if qt/python would be easier to learn, if all i need is to have a working app to show my concept in the next 10 hours
<RAOF> I've not tried qt/python.  I've found it trivial to whip up a gtk/python app, though.
<micahg> well, there's QT creator, but I haven't played with it
<RAOF> You could also go all Qt Quick, if javascript's your thing.
<nitinab> ok qt quick is something i didn't know about, but i am trying to stick to python for now
<pmjdebruijn> these days I'd probably go with Vala/GTK
<broder> i don't think i'd recommend vala
<broder> it feels underevolved to me still
<broder> too many rough edges and not enough docs
<nitinab> but its supposed to be faster, leaner
<RAOF> It's less painful than writing gobject in C, certainly.
<pmjdebruijn> and it's object model fits exactly onto GObject
<broder> i would probably choose vala over c, but i don't think i'd choose it over python for quick prototyping
<RAOF> Because it's an automatic C/gobject generator :)
<pmjdebruijn> I used to love Mono/GTK#, but then your stuck with Mono
<broder> in fairness, a lot of the sourness of my experience is because the library i'm working with has terrible introspection data
<nitinab> so i can prototype in python right now, and if it ever grows big enough that speed is an issue, rewrite the code into vala?
<pmjdebruijn> you can
<pmjdebruijn> but it's probably not the best way to go
<broder> i think it's a fine way to go
<broder> size of a codebase isn't indicative of performance problems
<broder> and there tend to only be a handful of things that are performance sensitive anyway
<RAOF> Which is why python C extensions exist :)
<broder> precisely!
<broder> or even better, vala libraries with good introspection data + pygobject
<broder> if you have 10 hours to build a functioning demo, i don't think you want to be bothering with C or a glorified annotated C preprocessor
<_ruben> brainfart, what is the usual version numbering 'scheme' when packaging a release candidate version? 0.14.0~rc3-1 for instance, or was it something else?
<pmjdebruijn> sounds cool
<pmjdebruijn> _ruben: I guess it should be 0.14.0~rc3-0
<pmjdebruijn> since -1 is used upstream by debian?
<_ruben> 0.14.0-1~rc3 just doesn't look right to me, which would be the closest alternative
<pmjdebruijn> nooo
<pmjdebruijn> _ruben: that's basically saying the pacakaging is in rc3 version, not the software itself
<_ruben> ubuntu/debian are still at 0.12.1 ;) (pmacct)
<_ruben> ah right
<pmjdebruijn> I know
<pmjdebruijn> but if there is going to be an official upstream package it will get the package version -1
<pmjdebruijn> so for personal use you'd want to go _under_ that
<pmjdebruijn> so 0.14.0~rc3-0
<_ruben> ah ok
<pmjdebruijn> I usually "tag" my packages for personal use too
<pmjdebruijn> so 0.14.0~rc3-0pmjdebruijn1~lucid for example
<pmjdebruijn> for my PPAs
<_ruben> that's an area i still need to create some consistency in, i sometimes do/don't use such a custom suffix
<pmjdebruijn> I'm not sure what the exact rules are for submittence to the MOTU's are
<_ruben> the 0 and 1 should be interpretted how exactly btw? of the pmjdebruijn part that is
<pmjdebruijn> huh?
<_ruben> never figured that one out ..
<pmjdebruijn> everything after the - is the package version
<_ruben> yeah, but why prefix with 0 and use 1 as suffix
<pmjdebruijn> -1 is used upstream by debian
<pmjdebruijn> usually you'd want to get your custom pacakges replaced by debian upstraem versions once they are available
<pmjdebruijn> Debain starts with -1
<_ruben> oh right, doh, that's the same 0 as discussed efore
<_ruben> i need to wake up it seems :p
<pmjdebruijn> it's not that hard :p
<pmjdebruijn> it's just {SOFTWARE_VERSION}-{PACKAGING_VERSION}
<_ruben> yeah, it's the numbering within the PACKAGING_VERSION that confused me for a bit, but it's clear now :)
<pmjdebruijn> it's just a number
<pmjdebruijn> in my example is 0 (to keep under future Debian packages), my tag 'pmjdebruijn', and my own version '1', suffixed by a dist '~lucid'
<_ruben> yeah
<pmjdebruijn> but that's my "private" scheme for my PPA
<pmjdebruijn> not for upstream submittance
<_ruben> understood
<pmjdebruijn> the nice thing is that customized packages can easily be identified
<pmjdebruijn> dpkg -l | grep pmjdebruijn
<pmjdebruijn> :D
<pmjdebruijn> ubuntu  uses a similar scheme when they modified debian packages
<_ruben> interesting, hadn't thought of that one :)
<pmjdebruijn> for example a ubuntu modified debian packages with version 0.14.0-1 becomes 0.14.0-1ubuntu1
<pmjdebruijn> which is what I based my scheme on
<_ruben> i really oughta do some ppa-like automation on my local build system .. like updating the ubuntu release name in changelog and build for that appropriate release, for both i386 and amd64 .. should be fairly trivial to implement i guess
 * pmjdebruijn just uses PPAs
<pmjdebruijn> allowed others to benefit as well
 * EvilResistance has his own ubuntu repository system set up
<EvilResistance> but its a private system :p
<_ruben> using ppas has crossed my mind as well, never really looked at how easy it would be to sync the ppas with my local repo .. then again, i plan to change from using debmirror to plain rsync someday anyway .. and possibly use debmirror or whatever to sync any ppas i might have by then
<pmjdebruijn> _ruben: sync? apt-mirror?
<_ruben> there's several syncing methods, with each their own pros and cons .. should re-evaluate some day, as current setup has been around for a while now
<_ruben> since feisty or so
<_ruben> anyway .. thanks for the versioning pointers, afk for a bit
<pmjdebruijn> npo
<nitinab> how can i change the editor in ubuntu quickly system, my gedit isn't working
<pmjdebruijn> "change the editor"
<pmjdebruijn> install another one and use it?
<pmjdebruijn> oh wait
<pmjdebruijn> the application 'quickly'
<pmjdebruijn> doh
 * pmjdebruijn is silly
<Laney> hm, can syncpackage -s ... -b xxx indicate that the sync was sponsored in the message?
<tumbleweed> what message?
<tumbleweed> oh, you said -b
<Laney> it's ok i filed it
<jtaylor> was the localhost binding issue on the builders fixed?
<tumbleweed> sounds like you are the person most likely to know ;P
<jtaylor> hm I'll just try a rebuild
<jtaylor> nope :/
<jtaylor> but it does not affect the armhf and armel builders
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: I guess you need to poke lamont
#ubuntu-motu 2011-12-15
<lfaraone> Hmmm, my posts at https://luke.faraone.cc/tag/ubuntu-planet/feed/ don't seem to be appearing in http://planet.ubuntu.com/. Anybody have access to the planetplanet logs on that system?
<dholbach> good morning
<Laney> morning!
<Laney> dholbach: been away? :-)
<dholbach> Laney, yep, took my remaining holidays :)
<Laney> very nice
<l3on> broder, Hi :)... what do you mean in bug 904179 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 904179 in fex (Ubuntu) "Please merge fex 20111129-1 (universe) from Debian unstable " [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/904179
<geser> l3on: you subscribed the sponsors team before you attached your debdiff
<l3on> mah... I see debdiff before broder message :/
<geser> check the comments numbers
<geser> it irritated me also
<geser> did the comment sorting change or was is it in that order (desc) for some time now?
<l3on> mmm... I sent comment and attachements by mail.. I don't know what happened...
<l3on> Comment written #2 at 12:32
<l3on> bahbah
<l3on> Ok, I'm going to add sponsors again
<geser> perhaps mail processing took time, I'll ask in #launchpad about it
<l3on> thank you.
<geser> did you subscribe the sponsors team also per mail? (the first time)
<l3on> geser, no, by mail
<l3on> sorry... by web
<geser> l3on: the comments are sorted by date (received headers from mail are trusted) while the comment number shows the order in which they got received
<geser> next time upload either the attachments through the web ui too or subscribe the sponsors team in your mail too (or check that the attachments arrived before subscribing)
<l3on> how can I subsribe via mail ?
<l3on> geser, do you know where are commands to send via mail ?
<l3on> (I mean, some howto somewhere)
<geser> l3on: https://help.launchpad.net/Bugs/EmailInterface
<l3on> great, thanks! :)
<zul> RAOF: ping
<l3on> do you think that package 'setpwc' should be synced now ?
<l3on> Debian maintainer has applied ubuntu changes, but nothing else... question is: in this case we sync package or we wait for some other changes ?
 * Zhenech_ says "sync" with his debian hat on
<Laney> might as well, as you've looked at it now
<bullgard4> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GVFS: "References: # ^ gvfs-mount, man page". Why does Ubuntu 11.10 not provide a gfvs-mount manpage?
#ubuntu-motu 2011-12-16
<gusnan> I am maintaining a package i Debian that has migrated from unstable to testing - what is required for it to come to precise? Am I wrong in thinking it should be imported automatically?
<micahg> gusnan: if there's no Ubuntu diff, it'll come automatically
<micahg> gusnan: at least until Debian Import Freeze which is Jan 9
<gusnan> micahg, thanks - then I'll try to be a bit more patient :)
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> gusnan: "automatic" means an archive admin has to start a script doing the importing (which is usually done as part of his daily duty)
<micahg> well, it's probably done a few times a week, and not daily
<micahg> udienz: are you aware we're still syncing regularly from Debian testing?
<udienz> micahg, but proftpd has been rebuild in precise
<micahg> udienz: rebuilds shouldn't matter for auto-sync, only ubuntu revisions
<micahg> or fakesyncs
<udienz> ah.. ok i see. so my bug sync can mark as invalid now?
<micahg> udienz: yeah, it just migrated yesterday, so it'll come in with the next autosync
<micahg> unless there's a pressing need for it (FTBFS, breakage in precise)
 * udienz set to invalid and unsuscrine ubuntu-sponsors
<micahg> udienz: thanks :)
<DreadKnight> could anyone update tiled package? https://github.com/bjorn/tiled/issues/125
<DreadKnight> http://www.mapeditor.org/
<DreadKnight> the version from softwre center is really old
<pmjdebruijn> http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=tiled&searchon=names&suite=all&section=all
<pmjdebruijn> oneiric already has a new version
<micahg> DreadKnight: precise has 0.7.1
<DreadKnight> micahg, I see; better but latest one is 0.8.0 :
<pmjdebruijn> sorry
<pmjdebruijn> I meant precise
<DreadKnight> yeah
<pmjdebruijn> best way to have debian get a new version, since ubuntu imports from debian
<DreadKnight> or to have this in the official tiled PPA
<DreadKnight> I'm looking into how to build binaries from source using launchpad
<micahg> DreadKnight: you can file a bug and tag it upgrade-software-version, it would probably be better if Debian updated first since we have no diff at present, since it was just released this week, you might want to give the Debian maintainer a chance to update
<DreadKnight> micahg, ok, will try that too, need to figure out who updated it last time
<micahg> DreadKnight: only  one uploader in Debian: http://packages.qa.debian.org/t/tiled-qt.html
<micahg> DreadKnight: if it's in Debian testing before Jan 9, precise will get it automatically, until Feb 16, you can request a sync from testing to precise
<DreadKnight> hmm "maint:Ying-Chun Liu (PaulLiu)"
<DreadKnight> seems the guy is on IRC
<DreadKnight> micahg, sounds good
<micahg> DreadKnight: also, tiled-qt seems like something that should qualify for backports as long as we can get someone to test it
<DreadKnight> micahg, I can test it
<micahg> DreadKnight: ok, so, starting in precise, there's a requestbackport script in ubuntu-dev-tools that can help you file backport requests
<DreadKnight> micahg, installing; also poked paulliu...
<micahg> DreadKnight: so, you might want to wait until 0.8.0 is in unless you want to test multiple times (which is fine as well)
<DreadKnight> already testing 0.7.1 atm
<micahg> ok, you'll need to test that the binaries that we prepare install and run in the target release
<micahg> you could prepare a backport to test as well in your own PPA with backportpackage if you like, just include a link to the build when you file the request
<DreadKnight> micahg, alright; installed ubuntu-dev-tools btw
 * micahg is heading to sleep, but others might be able to help (or I can respond to pings in the morning)
<DreadKnight> micahg, well, if I was comfortable with making binaries in PPA's I wouldn't be here
<DreadKnight> micahg, thanks for the help, good night
<micahg> DreadKnight: well, going through the distro others can benefit from your work  as well :)
<DreadKnight> ofc
<dholbach> l3on, I had another malformed patch - maybe you could use bzr merge proposals? :)
<Laney> morning
<Laney> dholbach: how do you feel about merging your developer stuff into the wiki now?
<Laney> i tinkered around the edges again the other day
<dholbach> Laney, by developer stuff you mean https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers?
<ajmitch> that reminds me, I was looking at the ContributeToUbuntu page on the wiki & it's still suggesting to go through the motu mentoring program
<Laney> that's the page you rewrote?
<dholbach> or the suggested update for it?
<Laney> yeah, it is - that
<dholbach> ajmitch, huats and I have an action item to remove all traces of the motu mentoring programme
<dholbach> Laney, it's a shame nobody merged it in back then
<Laney> hmm?
<dholbach> now it'll be a bit more complicated with changes that happened in the meantime, no?
<Laney> I don't think there have been any
<dholbach> oh
<Laney> well, the edit that I did the other day
<Laney> but I put that into TeamDelegation too so you can just ignroe that
<dholbach> I thought you just said you made a few changes? was that to the draft?
<dholbach> aha
<Laney> yeah on the pad
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> at least in the next 3-4 days I won't have the time to do it
<ajmitch> dholbach: is that cleanup part of the developer advisory team stuff?
<dholbach> ajmitch, yes :)
<Laney> righto
 * ajmitch saw that you were going to interview inactive contributors :)
<Laney> run & hide?
<ajmitch> sounds like a plan
<l3on> dholbach, damn :/ There's a bug in LP which removes newlines from the end of attachments submitted by email... anyway, I'm going to use merge proposal for future works ... thanks for review dholbach :).
<dholbach> l3on, anytime :)
<l3on> I'm going to mark bug 822289 as invalid, someone could confirm :) ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 822289 in python-apptools (Ubuntu) "oneiric packaging problem python-apptools due to unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/822289
<l3on> hey guys.. is it possible solve bug 843734 ? I built ruby-sinatra in oneiric, it works fine...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 843734 in ruby-sinatra (Ubuntu) "dependency problem, does not install" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/843734
<tumbleweed> l3on: file a backport request?
<l3on> mmm how? :)
<tumbleweed> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBackports
<l3on> tumbleweed, thanks... but requestbackport does not exist :)
<tumbleweed> l3on: it's in precise
<l3on> ahh ok :)
<tumbleweed> (or grab ubuntu-dev-tools from the daily build PPA)
<tumbleweed> we were going to backport that, I never got around to it :P
 * tumbleweed kicks it off
<l3on> lol
<tumbleweed> no, can't be done until bug 888665 is fixed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 888665 in Launchpad itself "Backports can't build-depend on other backports" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/888665
<tumbleweed> broder: ^
<broder> :-/
<ajmitch> oh right, that bug's still there. frustrating
<broder> i wonder if we're at the point that i should start asking for a non-virtualized ppa to stage backports in
<tumbleweed> broder: is that related?
<broder> we could use it to stage u-d-t at the same time as distro-info in the ppa, then copy them both at the same time into the archive
<tumbleweed> right
<broder> it would be a bad stopgap solution but would let us handle some backports
<tumbleweed> I don't see why backports PPA *needs* to be virtualized
<tumbleweed> I also don't know how hard it is to get a non-virtualized ppa
<broder> unfortunately i think you have to be employed by canonical
<broder> or possibly at least informed by someone with a Serious Business Relationship with canonical
<broder> s/informed/employed/
<ajmitch> or you may just need to talk nicely to the right people
<broder> hmm...i guess it could work if you copied everything currently in the -backports pocket into your ppa and then never removed anything from the ppa
<tumbleweed> why would that be necessary?
<broder> because the ppa builder won't pull in build-deps from the real backports pocket either
<tumbleweed> oh, duh, my mental model of thus assumes LP isn't buggy :P
<tumbleweed> practically, one can just do that when necessary
<broder> sure, that would work too
<ajmitch> working off the assumption that launchpad isn't using outdated & buggy code is doomed to failure :P
<broder> anyway, /me puts the laptop away and goes back to sleep for a few more hours
<l3on> ok, bug 905304 reported
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 905304 in Oneiric Backports "Please backport ruby-rack 1.3.1-1 (universe) from precise" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/905304
<broder> tumbleweed: hmm...you know what would be kind of awesome? if requestbackport ran a regexp over the request for bug references and spat out a "backports aren't for fixing bugs are you sure" prompt at you
 * broder actually goes back to sleep now
<tumbleweed> heh
<l3on> dholbach, hey.. what do you think about this â http://paste.ubuntu.com/772162/
<l3on> it's the same problem of bug 849174
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 849174 in bibus (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Bibus is not installable in Oneiric (depends on python<2.7)" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/849174
<dholbach> l3on, I'm just about to head out for lunch - submit it for review and I'll have a look later on
<l3on> oki :)
<geser> l3on: one small note: also mention OCaml (and not just the version) in the changelog. Only from the maintainer change in your debdiff, I realized that 3.12.0 was the OCaml version
<l3on> geser, yep yep.. It should be fixed in the last comment...
<l3on> :)
<Ampelbein> l3on: Hey, about bug 905015 - I added a link to upstream's svn with a working patch, which got reverted by accident.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 905015 in rosegarden (Ubuntu) "Please merge rosegarden 11.11.11-1 (universe) from Debian testing " [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/905015
<l3on> Ampelbein, thanks... I got it and rebuild ... see new bug comments :)
<l3on> jamespage, ping it's about bug 888937. Problem is that changing java we need upgrade md5sum ...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 888937 in fex (Ubuntu) "fex version 20110622-1ubuntu1 failed to build with openjdk-7" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/888937
<l3on> To fix problem I can set jdk7 as build-dep an update md5sum... let me know.
<Laney> dholbach: your patch pilot mail reminds me to remind you that syncpackage now lets you sponsor syncs (in precise or the ubuntu-dev-tools daily)
<Laney> :-)
<jamespage> l3on, ack; I did look at the package but could not understand why the checksums where being validated during the build process?
<dholbach> Laney, does the script already do everything correctly? I thought there was still something wrong with attribution?
<Laney> that is the missing piece that got landed
<dholbach> nice
<dholbach> if it works as expected, it should be on ubuntu-devel-announce@ or some such :)
<Laney> we should publicise that
<jincreator> Hi, everyone. Is it possible to sync package which version is lower than in Ubuntu?
<dholbach> jincreator, no
<dholbach> whatever gets passed on to the build machines has to have a higher version than what's currently available
 * dholbach goes back to writing the dev update
<l3on> jamespage, I don't know... :/
<jincreator> dholbach: Thanks.
<dholbach> anytime
<jamespage> l3on: it may be possible to make the checksums match; if we target the javac command at the right java release using -target 1.5/1.6 then it might match
<jamespage> I'll give it a try
<l3on> Ampelbein, FTBFS rosegarden in i386 mmm...
<Ampelbein> l3on: Yeah, seen that. The reason: ac_cv_env_build_alias_value=i686-linux-gnu, which isn't the multiarch triplet.
<l3on> maybe an `IF arch is "i686-linux-gnu" ; then do nothing ; fi ` should fix problem ?
<Ampelbein> l3on: No, I think your previous patch (with dpkg-architecture -q.... in acinclude.m4) is a good workaround until upstream agrees on a better solution.
<l3on> what's next step ?
<Ampelbein> l3on: Reopen 905015 and update https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rosegarden/+bug/905015/+attachment/2635296/+files/debdiff_11.11.11-1_11.11.11-1ubuntu1.patch to the new version.
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 905015 in rosegarden (Ubuntu) "Please merge rosegarden 11.11.11-1 (universe) from Debian testing " [Wishlist,Fix released]
<l3on> Ampelbein, yesterday I tried this: https://launchpad.net/~l3on/+archive/ppa/+packages
<l3on> It changes debian/rules in adding:
<l3on> 	dh_auto_configure -- --enable-debug --with-qtlibdir=/usr/lib/$(shell dpkg-architecture -qDEB_HOST_MULTIARCH)
<l3on> But, I'm not sure it will build on armel
<Ampelbein> l3on: It should.
<l3on> what do you think... is it better ?
<l3on> I mean, better than patch acinclude.m4
<Ampelbein> Yes, it's cleaner in my opinion.
<l3on> ok, I'll do that change
<bdrung> Laney, dholbach: and sponsor-patch supports the new sponsoring method of syncpackage
<dholbach> nice
<dholbach> that should probably be mentioned too
<l3on> Ampelbein, done. Thanks again.. :)
<Ampelbein> l3on: Since we have -1ubuntu1 of rosegarden already in the archive, the new upload should be versioned -1ubuntu2. I changed that manually now and uploaded
<udienz> Hi there, i just want to confirm that in bug 905252 i still in progress in maverick/lucid/oneiric and not ready for upload
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 905252 in proftpd-dfsg (Ubuntu) "CVE-2011-4130" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/905252
<micahg> udienz: you want ubuntu-security-sponsors, not ubuntu-sponsors
<udienz> micahg, yes i understood about it but crichton subscribed ubuntu-sponsors too
 * udienz can't unsubscribe ubuntu-sponsors 
<micahg> udienz: uh, that's a bug I guess, I unsubscribed it
<micahg> bdmurray ^^
<achiang> hello, i've just gotten a package accepted into debian. if i want it in precise, i need to file a sync request, right?
<broder> ScottK: bug #892355 should have a lucid-backports task, right?
<micahg> achiang: yep, we're still syncing from testing though, so should get it in around 10-15 days if it migrates
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 892355 in maverick-backports "Please backport clamav 0.97.3+dfsg-1ubuntu0.11.04.1 from natty-updates to lucid/maverick" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/892355
<udienz> achiang, right. if i'm not wrong, since precise is LTS you must wait your package entering debian testing
<micahg> udienz: new packages can be synced from unstable, but we're still far enough out that it's not necessary (getting close though)
<achiang> micahg: ah, so if i just wait then ubuntu automatically gets it once it lands in testing?
<udienz> micahg, hm.. thanks for this info. for this case, i think we can wait for new package entering debian testing because we still away from precise release. right?
<micahg> achiang: yep, as long as it migrates before Jan 9
<micahg> udienz: yes, see above ^^
<achiang> micahg: ok, the date that scares me is the DIF. i really want this package in precise...
<udienz> got it, thanks
<achiang> micahg: so if the answer is to just wait, and then it auto-syncs, that's fine
<achiang> micahg: but what happens if it doesn't migrate before Jan 9? Because Jan 12 is DIF
<micahg> achiang: DIF shouldn't scare you then, you have 5 weeks afterwards to request the sync :)
<achiang> micahg: oh! i thought DIF meant no more syncs from debian?
<micahg> achiang: no more automated syncs :)
<achiang> got it, i didn't realize "freeze" meant "automated syncs"
<achiang> i thought it was "no more syncs, period"
<micahg> achiang: we'll still be syncing up to release for various things for various unseeded packages as usual
<achiang> ack
<achiang> thanks micahg
<micahg> well, 1.5-5 days before :)
<broder> tumbleweed: do you think we can get something similar to http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/rdepends/ for debian?
<micahg> gah, ruby sources are a horrible mess...
<tumbleweed> broder: I asked if anyone was interested, and got no response
<broder> in running it or using it?
<tumbleweed> broder: there is, of course, less need for it, because Debian has less distributions in flight
<tumbleweed> if anyone wanted it
<broder> fewer distributions in flight, but more ports
<tumbleweed> that's true
<tumbleweed> if we do it, we should do it on Debian DDE. I can chat to enrico
<broder> i have no idea how i would currently go about looking for, say, r-deps of a mips package
<tumbleweed> youd download the Packages file and run grep-dctrl across it
<broder> eww
<broder> :)
<tumbleweed> most people have that scripted, right
<tumbleweed> or even easier: ssh into the dak mirror and do a dak rm, see what it complains about
<broder> easier for you maybe
<ajmitch> tumbleweed: I'm updating udd now, when's the best time to run the cron job for you?
<tumbleweed> ajmitch: doesn't matter for me. I don't have anything that's cronned, using it, yet
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> sunday morning it is then
<micahg> tumbleweed: is your upload activity page supposed to be updated on a regular basis or was it a one time export?
<ajmitch> it should only take a few minutes to do, anyway
<ajmitch> micahg: it probably depends on the data I'm updating now :)
<tumbleweed> micahg: once we have UDD on the ubuntuwire machine I can cron it
<micahg> ooh cool
<tumbleweed> although, I probably won't regenarte the affiliations very often, that takes hours
<ajmitch> tumbleweed: you should be able to do that now then
<tumbleweed> ajmitch: right, but I've run it after the last import (unless you just did one :P )
<ajmitch> tumbleweed: still downloading the data, I mean that you can set up the cron job now :)
 * tumbleweed does that
 * ajmitch should try & get on that uploaders list
<tumbleweed> ajmitch: can haz python-psycopg2 ?
<ajmitch> was sure I'd installed that one
 * micahg was shocked to find out he was on it for lucid
<ajmitch> never mind, I've installed it now
<ajmitch> micahg: yeah I sort of disappeared from the graphs
 * tumbleweed wasn't but I've been on every one since :/
<micahg> ajmitch: yeah, your last appearance on it was for feisty
<broder> which list?
<micahg> broder: http://people.ubuntu.com/~stefanor/upload_activity/
<ajmitch> micahg: that's pretty sad :)
<broder> ah yeah, i've definitely never made that
<micahg> broder: you're on your way for precise ;)
<ajmitch> what's the number I need to hit for precise to get back on the list? :)
<micahg> currently, I think it's between 10 and 15
<broder> oh really? sweet - i can totally make that :)
 * ajmitch can do that...
<ajmitch> if I can find something I can fix :)
<micahg> broder: you're already at 13
<micahg> ajmitch: lots of armhf FTBFS which are general
<broder> micahg: i count 7 uploads to precise on https://launchpad.net/~broder/+uploaded-packages - does the graph count things i sponsor?
<broder> oh, i guess syncs too
<micahg> broder: I think syncs count, but cannot be sure
<ajmitch> micahg: where are you seeing 13?
<broder> ajmitch: count the number of times "precise" shows up on https://launchpad.net/~broder/+uploaded-packages and https://launchpad.net/~broder/+synchronised-packages
<micahg> ajmitch: search for him in my precise-changes folder
<broder> or that :)
<ajmitch> ah right :)
<broder> do i get credit for srus? that would totally push me over :)
<micahg> I'm missing the first 2 days I think, but that's mostly the top uploaders anyways
<ajmitch> micahg: there are only a few hundred FTBFS, that's not so bad :)
<micahg> our newest MOTU was on the list for oneiric :)
<broder> yeah, but they're the ones you have to worry about! they actually *do* things
 * ajmitch was young once :)
<micahg> broder: not like we have a shortage of things to do
<ajmitch> micahg: it's always a matter of finding where to start
<broder> micahg: it looks like jtaylor had about 60 uploads during the cycle, though
<broder> i'm not sure i can keep up with that
<micahg> ajmitch: anywhere your heart desires :)
<jtaylor> neither can I :/
<broder> haha
<ajmitch> micahg: too many choices to make!
 * ajmitch should check on the state of mono-debugger
<tumbleweed> broder: yes. And backports now
<broder> psh. *that* just seems unfair...but i'll take it
<ajmitch> is there a good way to do armhf test builds?
<tumbleweed> broder: well, you would, if we attributed them
<tumbleweed> but you could get the backports team in :P
<broder> tumbleweed: huh? i'm pretty sure i get the changed-by on any backport i approved
<tumbleweed> or is that archive@ubuntu
<tumbleweed> broder: it doesn't make it into the LP SPPH, that I can see
<micahg> hmm...backports don't seem to hit -changes
<ajmitch> no, and for good reason
<tumbleweed> it was specifically disabled
 * tumbleweed digs out the bug
<broder> i see entries in ubuntu_upload_history for backports that have me as changed-by and signed-by
<ajmitch> do all security uploads make it to -changes these days?
<tumbleweed> broder: oh, cool
<tumbleweed> ajmitch: yes
<tumbleweed> backports were excluded because people were confusing them with -security
<tumbleweed> (actually I assume "all" not sure about that)
<micahg> ajmitch: nope, mine don't
<ajmitch> right, I didn't think they did
<micahg> ajmitch: all the ones from the P3A do
<tumbleweed> ajmitch: bug 59443
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 59443 in Launchpad itself "Soyuz should send announce messages for backports to different list" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/59443
<ajmitch> micahg: you have a separate special place?
<micahg> ajmitch: I use the public PPAs since I don't work on embargoed stuff
<ajmitch> right
<tumbleweed> cronned: http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~stefanor/ubuntu-activity/
<tumbleweed> (daily)
<ajmitch> great
<ajmitch> so it'll update in ~5 hours or so
<tumbleweed> yup
<ajmitch> this download of the udd data will be done by then, I hope :)
<ScottK> broder: Yes.  Fixed.  Thanks.
<Ampelbein> hmm, build-rdeps can't search for universe build rdepends?
<micahg> Ampelbein: try reverse-depends from ubuntu-dev-tools
<Ampelbein> Oh, I see, thanks micahg.
<jtaylor> no-change rebuild changelogs (buildX) are kept or does one drop them on ubuntuX updates?
<Ampelbein> I'd drop them, they contain no useful information IMHO.
<jtaylor> I choose something nice and simple for my first upload: bug 902494, due to the simplicity of the fix a SRU candidate so I don't want to wait to long for debian
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 902494 in silly (Ubuntu) "symbol lookup error: undefined symbol: png_create_read_struct" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/902494
<jtaylor> so how does this now work? I only ever dput'ed to ppas and mentors :/
<broder> jtaylor: step 1: target the bug correctly
<broder> (click "nominate for series" and check oneiric, or whatever)
<jtaylor> you mean nominate for oneiric?
<broder> right
<broder> step 2: make sure the bug is fixed in precise or going to be fixed soon
<jtaylor> yes I prepared a precise upload
<broder> ok. then "dput precise my_build.changes"
<broder> err...wait
<broder> no
<broder> dput ubuntu :)
<broder> lp dispatches the upload based on the Distribution line in the .changes file
<broder> so make sure that says precise/oneiric-proposed/whatever
<broder> it should also have a Launchpad-Bugs-Fixed header, which is what triggers the janitor to close the bug
<broder> jtaylor: is that the information you were looking for?
<jtaylor> yes thanks
<jtaylor> for the -propsed upload the same upload procedure + update bug description + subscripte sru team?
<broder> yep
<broder> oh sweet - i finally caught an upload that's affected by my pkgbinarymangler change. we are, in fact, no longer generating symlink-should-be-relative tags for langpack symlinks: http://lintian.ubuntuwire.org/full/ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com.html#brasero
<broder> (the package-contains-broken-symlink tags will go away next time i update lintian)
#ubuntu-motu 2011-12-17
<jtaylor> how does one disable the hardening flags in debian/rules?
<jtaylor> just for testing something
<jtaylor>  DEB_BUILD_HARDENING=0 does not work :/
<jtaylor> ah forgot to export
<tumbleweed> of course with dpkg-buildflags, that's DEB_BUILD_MAINT_OPTIONS=hardening=-all
<jtaylor> I'm just looking at building python-magick in precise but hardening appears to overwrite CFLAGS in an m4 macro causing missing -I
<tumbleweed> ah, I don't know much about the internals of hardening-wrapper
<jtaylor> wtf 657 universe ftbs :O all from armhf I guess?
<tumbleweed> yeah, there are still a bunch of depwaits in armhf
<tumbleweed> http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~stefanor/lp-ftbfs-report/historical/primary-precise.html
<tumbleweed> and of course, armel shows every package that would ftbfs if rebulit...
<yumbo> Is this the right place to ask the reason why a certain program isn't included in the repo's?
<jtaylor> yumbo: which program?
<yumbo> Peazip
<jtaylor> there was a rfp: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=499376
<ubottu> Debian bug 499376 in wnpp "RFP: peazip -- file and archive manager" [Wishlist,Open]
<jtaylor> but looks like it died, possibly due to issues with the language it is implemented in
<yumbo> I installed the .deb on my Ubuntu installation here and have no issues whatsoever
<yumbo> I really think it would be a great program to have in the repo's, as there are no archive manager alternatives at the moment that have so many options
<yumbo> Is there a way to ask for a reconsideration?
<jtaylor> well you have to get lucky and find someone who wants to do the work involved
<jtaylor> given the unusal language that will be difficult
<jtaylor> you could of course opt to maintain it yourself
<yumbo> considering the fact that the author already has deb-packages available, would the work involved be a lot?
<jtaylor> I think yes
<jtaylor> from that bug it seems the deb upstream distributes are compiled on suse and them converted
<jtaylor> that is not allowed for debian packages
<jtaylor> official ones
<jtaylor> they must be compiled from source with tools available in debian
<jtaylor> of course the bug is 2 years old, maybe its easier now
<yumbo> from the peazip website: "If PeaZip is missing in your distribution's repositories please take time to recommend it to distribution's maintainers, pointing them to this website for evaluating possible advantages in featuring PeaZip i.e. the Portable version, or the desktop neutrality, sources that can easily target either GTK2 or Qt widgetset, or its GUI etc..."
<yumbo> Is Lazarus/FPC available in debian?
<jtaylor> yes
<yumbo> the site states that that's all what's needed to compile from source.
<jtaylor> best changes to find someone to package it would be the debian lazarus/fpc team if that exists
<yumbo> Where could I contact them,=?
<jtaylor> hm apparently there is no such team :/
<jtaylor> and only 8 packages using it
<yumbo> Could you give me a list of those packages or who is maintaining them?
<showard> hey all, does auto-sync of new packages occur during LTS? Asking because there are packages listed at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+missingpackages that have never been synced into ubuntu (for ~2 months)
<showard> ~during LTS development cycles~
<jtaylor> yumbo: I had my regex wrong, only two packages
<jtaylor> winff and easymp3gain
<jtaylor> showard: probably those packages are not in wheezy/testing
<jtaylor> during lts ubuntu syncs from testing instead of unstable
<showard> They are in wheezy "Packages in parent series 'Wheezy' but not in 'Precise'" - I was specifically interested in triplea, in wheezy for 3 weeks
<jtaylor> hm no idea why thats not in precise
<jtaylor> its not blacklisted
<showard> there are 519 other packages like it, so I was wondering if it's a bug or intentional
<jtaylor> I just picked a few from there, all where removed from unstable
<jtaylor> maybe the site was not updated in a while
<yumbo> for "easymp3gain" the maintainer is "Ubuntu Developers <ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com>"
<showard> ah, ok - so they make sense. I can wait until after import-freeze, and if hasn't synced by then I'll just request sync
<yumbo> How do I contact them?
<yumbo> jtaylor, do I just send an email to ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com ?
<jtaylor> yumbo: mathias klumpp maintains that, but don't get your hopes to high that he will also do peazip just because he maintains a fpc package
<jtaylor> http://packages.qa.debian.org/e/easymp3gain.html
<jtaylor> the best way to get it done is to maintain it yourself
<yumbo> don't have time for that
<jtaylor> thats understandable, but don't expect others to do work for you, we are all volunteers
<yumbo> I thought I could maybe send Matthias Klumpp an email, asking if he could take a look at it
<yumbo> you happen to know where I can find his mail?
#ubuntu-motu 2011-12-18
<showard> yumbo: there is some discussion about the peazip file package request here: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=499376
<ubottu> Debian bug 499376 in wnpp "RFP: peazip -- file and archive manager" [Wishlist,Open]
<jtaylor> click on the name one the package page
<yumbo> showard, already saw that
<showard> ok good, sorry - i came in the middle of the discussion
<yumbo> jtaylor, I did that but couldnt find an email address :s
<jtaylor> oh right, its in the url :)
<yumbo> jtaylor, ah, how could I not notice
<yumbo> jtaylor, thanks for your help
<jtaylor> yumbo: here are all package depending on fpc: http://paste.ubuntu.com/773873/
<yumbo> awesome, thanks
<Ampelbein> showard: ->missingpackages - this also includes packages that are in ubuntu but have a higher version in debian.
<jtaylor> all packages I checked where even removed from debian
<jtaylor> why are they shown there?
<micahg> is there any best practices for things that fail with -pedantic for not meeting ISO C90 standards?
<niels_> hello
<alpha-aquilae> Do you know any virtual sound board (like http://bit.ly/uN3CNk ) running under ubuntu?
<om26er> I have worked on ~40 SRUs over the last year for different desktop packages, where does that bring me on becoming-a-MOTU situation?
<tumbleweed> om26er: that's quite a bit
<tumbleweed> of course, MOTUs are expected to have a fairly wide area of expertise, more than just desktop
<tumbleweed> have you considered joining the desktop team?
<om26er> tumbleweed, thats also an option ?
<om26er> i think desktop-team would take more than that ;-)
<tumbleweed> sure, you don't have to be a MOTU to get upload rights
<tumbleweed> most of the packages you've touched look like they are in main, so MOTU wouldn't help you much, anyway
<om26er> yep almost all of them are in main, i'll see with the destop guys then when they come back from holidays, thanks tumbleweed
<tumbleweed> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Developers
<tumbleweed> speak to the people who've sponsored you. They would be the ones who'd endorse your application, and I assume most of them are desktop team members themselves
<showard> Hey MOTUs, I was on here last night asking about "missing packages" https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+missingpackages
<showard> my question was: why are there so many packages (new) that have not synced in precise yet that are not in wheezy
<showard> for > 3 weeks, and is this a bug
<showard> the response was that those packages were removed in Debian or they were just a new package in wheezy than in precise
<showard> I looked into it more, and I don't think that's correct. It appears that there is a bug that is stopping the auto-syncing of new packages from wheezy
<showard> (or my understanding is incorrect)  On the first page of missing packages, I clicked on 4 random packages - all of them have been in wheezy for > 3 weeks, are new packages, and have never been synced in ubuntu
<showard> I've now looked into ~ 20 packages, every one of them migrated to testing between as early as Oct 14 but has never been synced in Ubuntu (of course, check ones with version numbers and uploaders, the others have been removed from wheezy)
<showard> As an example, check the triplea package (that's what got me to notice this). In wheezy since 11/24 and never synced to Ubuntu
<udienz> tumbleweed, i can't use grab-merge on debian-unstable :(
<udienz> ERROR: The certificate of `merges.ubuntu.com' is not trusted.
<udienz> it's a bug or ..?
<jtaylor> isn't there a flag to ignnore that?
<udienz> hm.. adding --no-check-certificate to wget (in /usr/bin/grab-merge) solving the problem
<tumbleweed> showard: firstly, new packages have to be reviewed by archive admins, so they take a while to enter Ubuntu. I assume the archive admins will try and review them all before DIF
<tumbleweed> showard: second, +missingpackages (and the related pages) don't know about the sync blacklist
<tumbleweed> jtaylor, udienz (ah he's gone): Looks like an unecessary certificate in the middle of the validation chain
<tumbleweed> udienz: I think the reason it works on Ubuntu is that ubuntu is using openssl instead of gnutls in wget
<tumbleweed> cjwatson: ^ ?
<showard> tumbleweed: thanks for the explanation. I didn't know manual intervention was required for NEW packages. I knew +missingpackages don't know about sync blacklist so I was ignoring those too
<udienz> tumbleweed, thanks. well i just pass certificate-check to ignore it. but i think it's not a solutions :(
<tumbleweed> udienz: yeah, that's what I've been doing too. it's been a problem for ages
<ajmitch> tumbleweed: udd reimport work ok for you?
<tumbleweed> ajmitch: seems good
<ajmitch> ok
<micahg> Ampelbein: you could upload the gnome-gmail fix, SRU review happens in queue now
<Ampelbein> micahg: Oh, didn't know that. Will do.
<Ampelbein> thanks
<micahg> Ampelbein: yeah, just subscribe ubuntu-sru, mark fix committed and note in the bug it's uploaded
<cjwatson> tumbleweed: no idea, I'm afraid; I regret to say SSL certificates generally hurt my brain
<micahg> I've never had a problem with grab-merge
<cjwatson> Laney: I can't figure out why e.g. http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/ghc.html won't show any real output for armhf.  Can you puzzle it out?
<cjwatson> Laney: I did (belatedly) remember to add it to archive_ports.ben ...
<cjwatson> Laney: and I removed monitor.cache in case there was something stale there, not that it made any difference
<Laney> isn't there a static arch list somewhere?
<cjwatson> not sure ... ocaml is not my strong point
<Laney> doing the merge atm anyway
<cjwatson> http://paste.ubuntu.com/774748/ is the current cronned script BTW in case that helps
<cjwatson> mkay
<Laney> sorry for tardiness, the power of beer compelled me
<cjwatson> often happens
<Laney> maybe arches need to appear in lib/benl_base.ml?
<cjwatson> it didn't make sense to me from what I could make out of the code, but I'll admit it's possible
<cjwatson> it looked like architectures in monitor files should override that
<Laney> cjwatson: seems to WFM locally: http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/transitions/ghc.html
<Laney> cjwatson: OK I pushed code to lp:ubuntu-transition-tracker and configs to lp:~ubuntu-transition-trackers/ubuntu-transition-tracker/configs with a new global.conf which you'll want to pass to ben using -g.
<Laney> next I'll rejig things so that we can use the index page generation
<Laney> is there a better way to keep that configs branch? I don't know enough about LP codehosting to know if it's possible to have more than one codebase under a project.
<Laney> this one gets stacked on lp:ubuntu-transition-tracker
 * Laney retires, nn
<micahg> Laney: branches are owned by teams and you can have as many as you want per project
<tumbleweed> micahg: ever used grab-merge on debian?
<micahg> Debian has a grab-merge?
<tumbleweed> micahg: ubuntu-dev-tools is a debian package
<micahg> ah, heh, right
<tumbleweed> erm, so I assume I have to wave that by canonical ISD
#ubuntu-motu 2012-12-10
<mfisch> I did an apt-get source for a package and it came down with distroseries "unstable", so are packages like those just direct copies from debian?
<psusi> mfisch, yes
<psusi> mfisch, also if there is no -ubuntuX in the version
<mfisch> right
<StevenK> -XubuntuY or -XbuildY
<mfisch> how do the ubuntu builders build the package for the right distroseries?
<mfisch> is the debian just dput as-is?
<StevenK> No, the source is imported into the right series
<StevenK> And the build infrastructure builds for that series
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> wow, Russian translations of the Packaging Guide are half way there :)
<Rhonda> duh
<Rhonda> Sync this package [y|N]? y
<Rhonda> syncpackage: Error: HTTP Error 400: Bad Request
<Rhonda> syncpackage: Error: Not permitted to upload directly to raring; try raring-proposed instead.
<Rhonda> â¦ what did I forget?
<Laney> -r raring-proposed
<Laney> (is it -r?)
<Laney> or upgrading to the newer ubuntu-dev-tools in -updates
<Laney> assuming quantal, proposed in precise
<Rhonda> Why proposed?
<Laney> we have britney migrating from -proposed to the release
<Rhonda> "raring is open for development"?
<Laney> you don't upload directly there any more, although for normal uploads the archive software rewrites the distribution
<Rhonda> Doesn't seem to do that. :)
<Rhonda> So even in "open for development" mode we need to upload to -proposed?
<Laney> syncs aren't normal uploads in this sense ;-)
<Laney> newer syncpackages know to use -proposed but if you don't have that then you'll need to tell it explicitly
<Rhonda> I thought they would be the normal thing because they make up like 90% of the archive ;)
<Rhonda> Hmm, and it used the complete changelog.
<Laney> yeah it gets that wrong too
<Laney> but that's just at your end AFAIK
<Rhonda> 0.143 I have, would 0.145 get it right?
<Laney> dunno, /me checks the changelog
<Laney>    * syncpackage, requestsync: Check the Release pocket if we can't find an
<Laney>      Ubuntu package in the requested pocket. (LP: #1069867)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1069867 in ubuntu-dev-tools (Ubuntu Precise) "syncpackage picks up too many changelog versions when the target is -proposed" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1069867
<Laney> maybe that
<Laney> oh I suppose you're on Debian, so forget what I said about upgrading to the SRU and use experimental :P
<Rhonda> ;)
<jtaylor> micahg: ping, ipython backport :)
<micahg> jtaylor: ah, right, that was on my list :)
<TheLordOfTime> anyone on the backports team alive?
<micahg> TheLordOfTime: yes, just we're all busy :)
<TheLordOfTime> :P
<micahg> TheLordOfTime: is there something urgent?
<TheLordOfTime> no, just checking if you're around, as you said you were going to sift through backports last week ;P
<TheLordOfTime> but if you all are horridly busy, i'll bug you later.
<micahg> TheLordOfTime: I'm still catching up on work from last week :)
<TheLordOfTime> ah, no problem then.
<TheLordOfTime> micahg, just a heads up: a username change on my LP account is pending someone checking the backport requests for ZNC (raring -> quantal -> precise) because i have to turn off the build-tests PPA and have it go away before i can get a username change to something more... sane... and closer to my name.  so...
<TheLordOfTime> not horridly important, but whenever you get around to it
 * TheLordOfTime returns to his daily stabbing of php5's code
 * micahg isn't sure why a username change is dependent on a backport
<TheLordOfTime> micahg, because the only evidence of successful building is in a PPA
<TheLordOfTime> referenced in the bugs themselves.
<micahg> TheLordOfTime: ah, ok
<TheLordOfTime> https://launchpad.net/~trekcaptainusa-tw/+archive/znc  is the PPA i"ve used for ZNC 1.0 which is being backported.
<TheLordOfTime> to do a username change, that PPA has to be turned off, according to LP admins.
<TheLordOfTime> so if I disable that, there's no proof of build tests unless i take additional bandwidth and time to rebuild in a separate PPA.
<TheLordOfTime> post-username-change.
<TheLordOfTime> given that i've already *done* the builds, i don't truly see a reason to redo them :/
<micahg> TheLordOfTime: ok, will try to squeeze it in between builds
<TheLordOfTime> mmkay, whenever.  just wanted to make sure you were aware of that info :)
<TheLordOfTime> ... damn you php5...
 * TheLordOfTime returns to stabbing its code.
<jtaylor> can't run-adt-test parse these type of dependencies? http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~jtaylor/+junk/ipython-test/view/head:/debian/tests/control
<jtaylor> it only installs those that are on the first line ...
<jtaylor> it also can't parse versions ._.
#ubuntu-motu 2012-12-11
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> good morning
<dholbach> hi geser
<dholbach> Laney, would it be possible to move our hangout forward by an hour? Jono decided to bring back our team meetings (which are at the same time :-))
<dholbach> Is there anyone else who could imagine giving a session at Ubuntu developer Week? Maybe just a 30m demo? We still have a number of slots open: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Timetable
<Laney> dholbach: should be ok
<Laney> I don't know which way forward is though :P
<dholbach> Laney, 15 utc instead of 16 utc - would that work?
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> right in the middle of my patch piloting ;-)
<dholbach> start earlier then ;-)
 * dholbach hugs Laney
 * Laney hugs dholbach 
<dholbach> Laney, are we still on for in 15m?
<Laney> yeah, sure
<dholbach> sweet
<mitya57_> dholbach: hey; what happened to http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/?
<dholbach> mitya57_, bad timing now - will check in a bit
<dholbach> mitya57_, maybe dpm can help figure it out - I have a hangout-on-air in a sec
<dpm> dholbach, mitya57_, no idea what happened, but I've manually run the script to generate the output and it's back online
<mitya57_> dpm: thanks
<mitya57_> one more issue is that http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/es/singlehtml/ has no logo, but that's probably my fault
<mfisch> Hey MOTUs, there's a ftbfs package that has a check in the rules file that the system it's being built on is PowerPC, yet the package is "all" so it breaks.  Is that legal?
<mfisch> I'm curious how it ever worked for Debian
<Laney> In Debian arch:all binaries are uploaded by the maintainer
<Laney> mfisch: ^-
<micahg> mfisch: is it legal? yes, can we build something like that at the moment? no, but it depends on what it is whether or not that's right
<micahg> classic example is powerpc bios emulation that needs to be built on powerpc
<mfisch> micahg: thats the one I think
<mfisch> micahg: slof
<mfisch> Laney: so the maintainer uploads binary packages?
<Laney> correct
<mfisch> interesting
<mfisch> I was wondering where the debian build logs were last night...
<Laney> that'll be why
<micahg> yeah, that just won't work in Ubuntu until we can get arch:all building on !i386
<micahg> well...in theory it could be done with multiarch hacking, but we don't have powerpc enabled by default with multiarch
<mfisch> so the package is really an all package?
<mfisch> just needs to be built on PPC
<micahg> I'm guessing Debian will need to solve this problem as well once they try to build everything from source on the buildds
<micahg> yes
<mfisch> micahg: thanks for the info
<Laney> do I remember a similar situation to this being discussed a couple of weeks ago?
<Laney> infinity: ^---?
<infinity> micahg: multiarch is the wrong answer here, affinity is the right answer (some sort of "Build-All-On: powerpc" header in the source).
<micahg> infinity: yes, that's why I said hackery
<infinity> micahg: But it's an irksome problem to fix in both Soyuz and DAK, so I haven't put much thought into it.
<micahg> and in theory :)
<infinity> micahg: Well, "we don't have powerpc enabled by default with multiarch" is a weird statement that makes little sense to me.
<micahg> infinity: well, as I said, if Debian goes through with their plans for everything to be built on the buildds, policy will probably have to be extended to include some type of affinity
<infinity> micahg: All arches are multiarch capable, that's sort of the point.  NONE of the buildd chroots enable multiarch for ANY secondary arch, to avoid cross-arch pollution.
<micahg> infinity: was just verbalizing a hack that would work, not something that I'd upload
<micahg> work == build and be installable with some tweaking, not correct solution by any means
<infinity> Oh, unless you meant an all->powerpc cross-arch dep, like we do with wine.
<infinity> That would absolutely work.
<micahg> yes :)
<infinity> But yes, not enabled by default.  Check.
<infinity> Maybe I should put forward a proposal for Build-On affinity at some point.
<infinity> I had hoped to JFDI and skip the bikeshedding, but I don't really have time.
#ubuntu-motu 2012-12-12
<ScottK> mfisch: change it from arch: all to arch: powerpc.
<mfisch> ScottK: that was the fix I assumed, if it's worth doing
 * ScottK did that for something and it did work.
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hi iulian
<geser> ScottK, mfisch: but wouldn't this make the package (here  slof; powerpc firmware to use with qemu) unavailable to non-powerpc?
<Laney> you'll still be able to install it using multi-arch
<geser> but only if you add "powerpc" to your sources, right?
<Laney> yeah, you'll have to enable it
<Laney> better than no package though
<geser> true
<Laney> hmph
<Laney> anyone using raring & lighttpd? userdir is broken on it here
<Zhenech> debian stable here :P
<Laney> ah
<Laney> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=680755
<ubottu> Debian bug 680755 in lighttpd "lighttpd: Upgrading from Squeeze disables directory listing" [Important,Open]
<Laney> silly silly silly
<Nafallo> hi. anyone loooking at this bug at all? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/262433
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 262433 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] sipXecs - Communications Suite, IP PBX server, VoIP" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<smartboyhw> Wow it dates back from Hardy....
<smartboyhw> Nafallo, all the wiki links are invalid in the bug
<smartboyhw> So no one knows where the source code is...
<Nafallo> http://wiki.sipfoundry.org/display/sipXecs/Home
<smartboyhw> Nafallo, thx
<Laney> someone please tell me how to make arch:all reprepro uploads work
<Laney> using 'reprepro include'
<Nafallo> and I believe here: http://download.sipfoundry.org/pub/sipXecs/
<Nafallo> https://www.calivia.com/bk/sipx/sipx-on-debian
<mfisch> geser: that's what I was thinking, the package is really an all since it's for qemu but needs to be built on PPC. Hence I'm not doing anything with it.
<TheLordOfTime> are universe sync requests still accepted for raring?
<micahg> TheLordOfTime: yes
<TheLordOfTime> thanks.
<TheLordOfTime> micahg, is it normal for requestsync to error out for newly-uploaded-to-experimental packages?
<TheLordOfTime> s/newly/recently/
<micahg> possibly
<micahg> did LP pick it up yet?
<TheLordOfTime> not sure, the upload was 10:07 UTC today.  (it was really early morning for that one)
<TheLordOfTime> (upload to Debian)
<TheLordOfTime> (early morning relatively speaking, ~05:10 here)
<TheLordOfTime> if i use  -C in requestsync, will it ask me to provide the relevant changelogs if it can't pull the data?
<TheLordOfTime> its a minor change to the package, but the sync'll close LP bug 1085742
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1085742 in znc (Ubuntu) "znc-dev should depend on the required compilers" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1085742
<TheLordOfTime> (the Debian "compromise" was to set a recommends on the g++ compiler)
<TheLordOfTime> ... yep, requestsync -C ... worked and is asking me to fill in the changelog by hand.  *grabs data from packages.debian.org*
<TheLordOfTime> ... stupid encoding issues...
 * jtaylor would have left the bug at won't fix
<TheLordOfTime> okay, so apparently PuTTY can't work with the character "Ã¤" correctly.
 * TheLordOfTime kicks his  computer
<tumbleweed> TheLordOfTime: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RaringRingtail/ReleaseSchedule up until Feature Freeze. Then it starts needing good reasons and paperwork
<TheLordOfTime> ah, well then.  :P
 * TheLordOfTime notices emails stating his system's imploding.
<TheLordOfTime> ... oops
<psusi> valgrind complains about an invalid read of size 8 then says: Address 0x6bfdb98 is 8 bytes inside a block of size 12 alloc'd.  If it's 8 bytes inside a block of 12, how is that invalid?
<jtaylor> 8p8 e 16
<jtaylor> 8+8 = 16, block is only size 12
<jtaylor> psusi:
<jtaylor> it reads 4 byte to much
<psusi> jtaylor: why are you adding 8 to 8?
<jtaylor> 8 byte read 8 byte into a block of size 12
<jtaylor> if the block starts at 0 the read is starts at 8 and goes to 16
<jtaylor> e.g. *(double *)(0x0+8)
<psusi> OHH... I interpreted that as just 8 bytes somewhere inside the 12 byte block, it means it starts 8 bytes into it
#ubuntu-motu 2012-12-13
<chilicuil> does anyone know of a reason why whiptail on ubuntu is on /bin/ while in debian is on /usr/bin/whiptail ? it breaks at least rcconf
<chilicuil> ok, got it, it seems it was changed in order to work on friendly-recovery utilities on systems with a separate /usr (from the newt changelog), sry for the noise
<psusi> hrm... I think there is a bug in libc... wcslen keeps trying to read 8 bytes that go beyond the buffer
<NCommander> I need someone some help with solving a lintian error, specifically postrm-does-not-call-updaterc.d-for-init.d which keeps showing up for a reason I can't figure out
<gnomefreak> anyone know if it is safe to remove libbamf0 and im-switch?
<gnomefreak> this is in 13.04
<ScottK> If you don't care about input methods, im-switch should be fine.
<ScottK> For a lib (e.g. libbamf0) try and remove it and see what it wants to remove with it.
<gnomefreak> ScottK: i started it again and it only wants to remove itself now. last week it wanted to remove unity and friends
<gnomefreak> thanks
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hi iulian
<ScottK> Rhonda: Would it be possible to make p.u.c aware of raring-proposed?
<Rhonda> ScottK: Hmm, that's something new, right?  And it's not a full suite but a supplement to raring?
<ScottK> Rhonda: Yes and yes.
<Rhonda> I *think* there is some code in there to handle that, I'll have to look, might take a bit.
<Rhonda> And I'm not in my best shape, lying down with a heavy cold that gets me a bit dizzy too.
<ScottK> It happened for the first time today that it would have been helpful.  Thanks for looking into it.
<ScottK> Ouch.  I hope you feel better.
<Rhonda> So keep reminding me in case you don't hear back. :)
<Rhonda> unfortunately gnome3 decided that sticky notes are a bad idea
<ScottK> KDE has sticky notes.
<ScottK> Just saying.
<Rhonda> â¦  :)
<tumbleweed> MOTU meeting reminder
 * Laney chuckles
<Laney> is there an agenda?
<Zhenech> - fix all the debian rc bugs
<Laney> only hard ones left :(
<tumbleweed> not much of one, no https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings
<aboudreault> if the directory I have to build my package is not the root of the package. Can I tell override_dh_auto_build to just do a: CD... then MAKE ?
<asomething> tumbleweed, well that says the next meeting is December 6th =P
<highvoltage> hellomotu
<tumbleweed> who did the minutes? :)
<Laney> aboudreault: make -C?
<aboudreault> Laney, isn't the same result?
<tumbleweed> there's also the --sourcedirectory build system option, that you can pass to dh
<aboudreault> ah, looks like the cd DIR then $(MAKE) doesn't work...... but make -C does.
<jtaylor> aboudreault: cd .. && make would work, but make -C is the standard way
<aboudreault> jtaylor, ah, it's probably because I wrote on 2 separate lines in the rules file
<jtaylor> yes that doesn't work, each line is a new subshell
<aboudreault> jtaylor, ok thanks, didn't know
<micahg> hrm, did I miss the meeting or are we waiting until next week?
<tumbleweed> sorry, got forcibly distracted
<Laney> i was going to add "we tried guys, let's forget about the meetings" to the agenda
 * tumbleweed drops it from the calendar
<bobweaver> hello there I have a question about making plugins for things. but the plugins would have to overright some files that are installed in order for them to work
<bobweaver> is this possible
<bobweaver> let me try to get a example together
 * xnox ponders about a meeting?!
<bobweaver> ok say I wanted to make a configureation menu for unity that is in the dash.  in order to do this I would need to add some code to the files  <source>/shell/Shell.qml  and <source>/shell/dash/Dash.qml    adding a couple of lines for the functions to tell unity 2d that it is there
<bobweaver> so in other words replaceing the file's I do not think htat one can do that. am I correct assuming this ?
<dupondje> !seen coolbhavi
<ubottu> I have no seen command
<dupondje> ? :)
<jtaylor> ... numpy was once again merged incorrectly
#ubuntu-motu 2012-12-14
<TheLordOfTime> any MOTU able to approve a bug nomination for Lucid so it actually shows up as "Lucid" in the bug?
<TheLordOfTime> or should i be poking a different set of people?  (its a "Universe" package's bug so... thought i'd start here)
<xnox> TheLordOfTime: pasting the bug number helps better than asking to ask a question about a bug =))))) what's the bug #?
<TheLordOfTime> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/znc/+bug/1088390
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1088390 in znc (Ubuntu) "znc & znc-perl not to load perl module" [Undecided,New]
<TheLordOfTime> xnox, but i'm checking with upstream to see if this is really an issue with the package itself :P
<TheLordOfTime> (nevertheless, the reporter has stated that its fixed in Precise and later, so...)
<xnox> TheLordOfTime: done, continue trianging ;-)
<TheLordOfTime> xnox, thanks :)
<TheLordOfTime> (althoug htechnically upstream is basically saying i should tell the user of lucid to just upgrade to 0.206 or newer,  which is the same as saying "Use Precise")
<TheLordOfTime> (0.206 won't backport correctly, ran into issues just getting it to natty at the time, wherein package requirements were nonexistent and would end up requiring a TON of things to be backported, but would end with an FTBFS due to backports not being able to depend on backports or something)
<phillw> Hi, is there a tame MOTU who could help? Â libguestfs: error: cannot find any suitable libguestfs supermin, fixed or old-style appliance on LIBGUESTFS_PATH (search path: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/guestfs)I believe that I fixed this in 1.18.5-3 which was uploaded to
<phillw> Debian/unstable on or around 2012-07-19.
<phillw>  me get I believe that I fixed this in 1.18.5-3 which was uploaded to
<phillw> Debian/unstable on or around 2012-07-19.
<phillw> actually progressed?
<phillw> bug 1086974
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1086974 in libguestfs (Ubuntu) "libguestfs: error: cannot find any suitable libguestfs supermin" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1086974
<TheLordOfTime> uhm...
<TheLordOfTime> care to restate your request phillw?  you've got recursive words going around ;P
<TheLordOfTime> if i can't understand what you're asking, doubt a MOTU can either :P
<xnox> phillw: sure, i'll do it sometime in the next week.
<TheLordOfTime> or not :P
<TheLordOfTime> (xnox is wizard at understanding things :P)
<micahg> he merged the fixes in to raring :)
<TheLordOfTime> ah, that explains things.
<TheLordOfTime> oh good, you're here micahg.
<xnox> micahg: RUN!
<TheLordOfTime> care to guess what i'm about to poke you about?  :P
<micahg> backporting a version that's no longer in the archive? :)
<TheLordOfTime> actually, was oging to ask you two things, but...
<TheLordOfTime> backports, yes.
<TheLordOfTime> secondly, why is znc 1.0-2 listed as stuck in proposed still
<micahg> TheLordOfTime: waiting for powerpc
<TheLordOfTime> ... no way to push the i386/amd64 versions to raring without waiting for powerpc to build?
 * TheLordOfTime will have to "fix committed" the bug that the sync actually "fixed" per se.
 * TheLordOfTime preps uploads of 1.0-2 to his PPA.
<phillw> xnox: the patch is there, but KVM with ubuntu is also having problems. I'm not sure as to what time should be allocated to it as there is the other KVM bug which is more important.
<TheLordOfTime> micahg, because powerpc was, a few hours ago, at "24 minutes to build" then got dumped up to 2 hours to build
<TheLordOfTime> if the queue for powerpc is that long, it'll never get out of -proposed :/
<micahg> TheLordOfTime: webkit :)
<TheLordOfTime> ...  have i mentioned recently i dislike powerpc with a passion?
<TheLordOfTime> probably not :P
<TheLordOfTime> micahg, should i amend the backport requests for znc 1.0-x to recheck for 1.0-2?
<TheLordOfTime> or can we just cancel the backport request in progress and I go file a new one?
<micahg> TheLordOfTime: if you want the new version backported, yes
<micahg> just modifying is sufficient
<TheLordOfTime> okay, given that 1.0-2 provides a solution for LP Bug 1085742, i'd think it'd be sufficient to test for 1.0-2.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1085742 in znc (Ubuntu) "znc-dev should depend on the required compilers" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1085742
<TheLordOfTime> (solution was to "Recommend" the g++ compiler in the debian package)
<phillw> TheLordOfTime: have I mentioned recently about the facts of kernels causing regerssions for PPC :)
<TheLordOfTime> phillw, i don't track PPC, so its unlikely
<TheLordOfTime> :P
<phillw> possibly missed by most... bug 1066435
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1066435 in linux (Ubuntu) "powerpc: "Fixing recursive fault but reboot is needed!"" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1066435
<phillw> but, the request is... https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libguestfs/+bug/1086974/comments/2
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1086974 in libguestfs (Ubuntu Quantal) "libguestfs: error: cannot find any suitable libguestfs supermin" [High,Confirmed]
<phillw> but the request is how do I action https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libguestfs/+bug/1086974/comments/2
<phillw> sorry for the echo :(
<TheLordOfTime> micahg, backport requests updated, i'm going to retest in a few days.
<dholbach> good morning
<murrayc> Is there any way to generate debian/copyright by scanning all the source files? Doing it by hand will take ages and be hard to keep up to date.
<jtaylor> murrayc: licensecheck
<murrayc> Thanks.
<jtaylor> there is also /usr/lib/cdbs/licensecheck2dep5 which is useful but needs lots of manual checking
<tumbleweed> easiest way to keep it up to date is to read the diffs before uploading new upstream verisons
<tumbleweed> you do that anyway, right? :)
<tumbleweed> one of the things I do when reading it is search for copyright
<murrayc> I'm am creating my habits now.
<murrayc> The duplication is a bit dull.
<tumbleweed> what duplication?
<murrayc> The same info is in debian/copyright and in the source files.
<murrayc> One seems like just a view of the others.
<tumbleweed> however, the source isn't shipped in the binary packages
<tumbleweed> so, we need to include the copyright information it contains in the binaries, somehow
<tumbleweed> it doubles as an audit of the licencing of the package
<tumbleweed> which does need to be done before Ubuntu will distribute it
<murrayc> Yeah, so it seems like the focus should be on getting the information correct in the source files, and just generating it each time, with some way to modify the generation if the source can't be changed.
<murrayc> But I'm a (perpetual) newbie packager.
<tumbleweed> yes, getting the upstream to clearly state copyright and licensing is a worthwhile goal
<tumbleweed> it makes life easier for everyone else who modifies/distributes it
<murrayc> I can ignore NEWS, README, etc, right?
<tumbleweed> they're worth reading. And it's probably worth including NEWS in the binary package
<murrayc> I mean, I don't need to specify the copyright of README?
<tumbleweed> you don't need to go into prefect detail in your copyright file
<tumbleweed> it's perfectly acceptable to say that everything is copyright these people, and distributable under this license
<murrayc> OK, but real projects tend to have multiple copyright holders.
<murrayc> When they care about specifying it in their source files.
<tumbleweed> you can collate them, if the licenses are the same / compatible
<Laney> Files: *\nCopyright: <union of all copyright holders>\nLicense: <whatever>
<murrayc> copyright myproject-team is a bit of an avoidance.
<tumbleweed> personally, I divide my copyright files up by licenses, and collate all the copyright holders and years
<Laney> if everything is the same license, that is fine
<murrayc> Anyway licensecheck plus licensecheck2deb5 seems useful.
<tumbleweed> licensecheck is useful, but often gets licenses wrong
<murrayc> Well, it seems better than nothing.
<tumbleweed> so, it's more useful as a guide than a definitive source
<murrayc> Thanks
<jpds> Right, with the new order of "dh $@" --- how I do tell rules to chmod a file after it's been dh_install'ed ?
<jtaylor> override_dh_fixperms:
<jpds> jtaylor: Tried that, doesn't work when I do: debian/rules binary.
<jtaylor> jpds: have you cleared the debhelper logs?
<jtaylor> thats what dh uses instead of stamps
<jpds> ls
<jpds> jtaylor: Right, so.
<jpds> $ fakeroot debian/rules binary
<jpds> But I don't see the chmod in override_dh_fixperms being run.
<jtaylor> even if you do a debian/rules clean first?
<jpds> jtaylor: Yep.
<jtaylor> can you show the rules
<jpds> jtaylor: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1438174/
<jtaylor> why do you install debhelper.mk?
<jtaylor> include
<jpds> jtaylor: I thought it was standard?
<jtaylor> not with dh rules
<jpds> jtaylor: Well, without it - I get: make: *** No rule to make target `binary'.  Stop.
<jtaylor> you need to comment the dh in of course
<jtaylor> override_dh only works with dh rules not cdbs rules
<jpds> jtaylor: Great, thanks.
<hlt32> Hi
<hlt32> Join the #ubuntu-motu channel on irc.freenode.net and talk with the MOTU. It's good to do this early on, to get advice on how to package (avoid common mistakes), to find out if your package is likely to be accepted (before you invest a lot of work in packaging it), and to find mentors willing to sponsor your package or to point you in the right direction.
<hlt32> Am I in the right place for this? :)
<jtaylor> yes
<hlt32> Cool, I guess the first question is to find out if I'm wasting my time ... I'm looking at packaging http://www.evefit.org/static/pyfa#faq directly for ubuntu.
<hlt32> I checked the Debian package requests - there's an old dormant request from 2010, but also some comments that it is insufficiently "free" for even the non-free repo there and they would want the non-free data to be downloaded post installaiton.
<hlt32> Would this be likely to be an issue here?
<jtaylor> yes pretty much the same rules apply
<hlt32> Would it matter that the programs source is licensed under the GPL, but contains data files licensed for non-commercial use?
<jtaylor> hlt32: yes, the gpl part can be regulary packaged
<jtaylor> but the non-commercial non distributable stuff needs to be handled differently
<jtaylor> e.g. via downloading it in a postinst like flash
<hlt32> so whether or not its licensed for non-commercal use doesnt matter - it can't live in the repo at all?
<hlt32> (even in contrib ?)
<jtaylor> non-commercial is not fre
<jtaylor> it may go into multiverse, if its distributable
<hlt32> ah good
<jtaylor> in general we also don't advise to package directly for ubuntu but to try via debian
<hlt32> I read that part, but I would prefer to avoid a postinst if possible.
<hlt32> and I have philosophical issues with debians definition of free, which is partly why I use ubuntu
<jtaylor> its not easy to find sponsors in ubuntu, especially for this type of package
<jtaylor> I'd file it under not worth it
<jtaylor> maybe its suitable for a ppa
<hlt32> ah, thanks
<hlt32> It's more of a learning experience than anything else I guess, I'll get it working in a PPA then go from there.
#ubuntu-motu 2012-12-15
<ESphynx> hey guys
<ESphynx> micahg: Was it you who offered your help for my Ecere SRU? :P
<ESphynx> I'm going to give it another try, after brewing some coffee
<Rhonda> *sigh*
<Rhonda> I think I need to update my PPA for pgadmin3.  Someone else tried to upload and failed, and I received the error mail. %-)
#ubuntu-motu 2012-12-16
<micahg> Rhonda: is it not suitable for a distro backport?
<micahg> ESphynx: it was, but I've been kinda busy, try me next weekend
<ESphynx> micahg: been crasy busy myself... I'm going to try to find some time to cherry pick this properly
<ESphynx> micahg: I'll let you know when it's done, maybe you can upload it =)
<ESphynx> s/crasy/crazy
<micahg> ESphynx: I'm piloting Wed if that helps any
<Rhonda> micahg: I created it back then when there was a newer version that wasn't in the devel distribution.  And the backport process doesn't work for me for some reasons, I always get stuck somewhere waiting for feedback on and on. :/
<jtaylor> Riddell: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/im-switch/1.20ubuntu2 can this be bumped to recommends?
<jtaylor> right now if zenity is missing the desktop entry does nothing
<jtaylor> Riddell: nevermind found a better way to fix it
<mapreri> can someone help me to build a package? I'm using the bzr bd command (so dpkg-buildpackage), but it tells me that it can't make the changes file. Here some info: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1443995/
<mapreri> I can't find thee problem....
<mapreri> the*
<jtaylor> how does your rules file look like?
<mapreri> jtaylor: it is in the link above
<jtaylor> oh
<jtaylor> I recommend to use a different rules
<mapreri> jtaylor: and thank you for answering :)
<jtaylor> there is lots of stuff missing
<jtaylor> I recommend /usr/share/doc/debhelper/examples/rules.tiny
<jtaylor> see man dh
<mapreri> I'm watching...
<mapreri> ah, but using this rules file does not execute the upstream makefile? This makefile is not a good one... http://paste.ubuntu.com/1444008/
<jtaylor> you can override_auto_build to do nothing
<mapreri> I add also override_dh_auto_install, but it don't put any file inside the .deb (apart the debian control files)...
<mapreri> -.-
<jtaylor> how does it look now?
<mapreri> the rules?
<jtaylor> yes
<mapreri> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1444019/
<jtaylor> you have to put your copies in there
<mapreri> I don't understand...
<jtaylor> dh can't magically know what you want to do
<jtaylor> it can only do that if the makefile is good
<jtaylor> which you said is not
<jtaylor> basically you copy what you had in the install: of your old rules into the auto_install override
<mapreri> ummh.. now I simply suppose there are something wrong in other part of the package... rules: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1444025/ the last build: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1444028/ (note the lintian warning "empty binary package"). the tree: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1444031/ (the "rules 1" file is the old rules)
<jtaylor> the installdir should be debian/<packagename>
<jtaylor> its easiest to use dh_install
<mapreri> lol, I'm a bit idiot sometime -.-'' I called the directory ebg in place of easybashgui...
<mapreri> now it work.. I try to install the package..
<mapreri> works*
#ubuntu-motu 2013-12-09
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2013-12-10
<Logan_> Noskcaj: Are you sure the extensions being gone is a nonissue for your latest gthumb upload?
<Logan_> I'm going to sync, but please make sure you look into that...
<Noskcaj> Logan_, I'm working on fixing it, but having plenty of time to test the new version is more important
<Logan_> Noskcaj: I think making sure there aren't any regressions before uploading is more important... But okay.
<Noskcaj> If i new how to stop it, i would have. I'll try and contact upstream when school finishes for the year (next week) because it's probably a dependency issue
<dholbach> good morning
<aeoril> I am new to MOTU.  I found this nice website:  http://packaging.ubuntu.com/html/ Is that a good place to start?
<aeoril> Also, I went from there to here:  http://packaging.ubuntu.com/html/getting-set-up.html and am at section 2.1: Install Basic Packaging Software.  However, I need to know which version of Ubuntu to install first to do packaging work for the latest development version (I am a developer and know how to code, and have had some previous experience with Ubuntu packaging, but a long time ago)
<aeoril> Also, it mentions using fakeroot or testdrive to make sure you use the latest Ubuntu to develop on - can I use a virtual machine instead?
<aeoril> philipballew hello!
<aeoril> Unit193 hello!
<Unit193> Howdy.
<aeoril> Unit193 how goes it
<aeoril> ?
<aeoril> Unit193 do you know who I am?
<Unit193> Yep.  And the normal method is chroots, not testdrive (vm thingy)
<aeoril> Unit193 which version of Ubuntu should I install to MOTU on?
<philipballew> aeoril, hello there.
<aeoril> philipballew remember me from UBT?
<Unit193> aeoril: I'm on saucy, with Saucy, testing, unstable, and trusty chroots.
<Unit193> (Think precise {LTS} too.)
<philipballew> aeoril, Yes I do. I hope all is well.
<philipballew> Where in the world are you currently?
<aeoril> philipballew yes, very well thanks - Oklahoma
<aeoril> (USA)
<philipballew> aeoril, oh cool. I have never been there!
<aeoril> Unit193 what do you mean "with Saucy, testing, unstable, trusty chroots?"
<aeoril> philipballew you're not missing much :)
<philipballew> aeoril, haha, If you find yourself in San Diego, stop by and say hello.
<Unit193> !pbuilder
<Unit193> !sbuild
<ubottu> pbuilder is a system to easily build packages in a clean chroot environment. To get started with PBuilder, see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<ubottu> sbuild is a system to easily build packages in a clean schroot environment.  To get started with SBuild, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SbuildLVMHowto
<aeoril> philipballew sure thing!
<aeoril> Unit193 is pbuilder easier than sbuild?
<Unit193> I use pbuilder.  There's benefits and disadvantages of both, really.
<aeoril> Unit193 I am downloading saucy right now.  I want to run Ubuntu in a Windows virtual machine - will that be problematic for development?
<aeoril> (if you know)
<aeoril> If the Windows VM is not a good idea, I can fire up an older PC to run it
<aeoril> philipballew are you still in school at la jolla, or am I remembering incorrectly?
<philipballew> aeoril, Yes, just south in an area called Point Loma.
<aeoril> philipballew yes, I can picture it in my mind (from the picture on the website I saw years ago)
<aeoril> philipballew how is school going?  You got your PhD yet?
<philipballew> aeoril, nope! Just getting my undergrad!
<aeoril> philipballew what grade are you in now?
#ubuntu-motu 2013-12-11
<dholbach> good morning
<rbasak> dholbach: p/
<rbasak> o/
<dholbach> hey rbasak!
<rbasak> dholbach: could you take a look at https://code.launchpad.net/~geoubuntu/ubuntu/trusty/gnomeradio/1256796/+merge/197817, please? It looks like he's effectively taking over maintenance of a dead upstream/less responsive Debian maintenance, but is trying to do it in Ubuntu, and I'm not comfortable sponsoring this.
<rbasak> I appreciate the work - just that coordinating with upstream or maintaining an upstream patchset/friendly fork might be a better approach. I don't know what Ubuntu has done in this sort of case in the past.
<dholbach> rbasak, I sponsored a lot of his patches and had some discussions already about forking the original code and throwing it up as an "-ng" project or something on LP
<dholbach> he's doing a good job, but up until now hasn't taken the time to set up the project
<rbasak> dholbach: he's been updating this MP pretty much daily. How much sense is it for sponsors to continuously review what is effectively every upstream commit?
<dholbach> rbasak, I agree with you - it's just that I mentioned it to him a couple of times, but wanted to get on with my work and get on with getting the sponsoring queue down
<dholbach> if you want I can write an email in a bit and CC you
<Noskcaj> Is anyone willing to give me a testimonial for MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Noskcaj#MOTU
<rbasak> dholbach: I don't mind. I just thought I'd mention it, as I'm not comfortable sponsoring/reviewing this and didn't want his work to get missed.
<Noskcaj> And can a few of the older devs check  http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/neglected/ since a lot of packages are older than any release we support
<Noskcaj> and as always, has anyone got some merges i can/should do?
<michagogo|cloud> Question: I've read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates. Does that policy also forbid the removal of a package from released releases? (for Universe packages, specifically)
<cjwatson> michagogo|cloud: we can't remove packages from stable releases, because we don't regenerate the stable Packages files, ever
<michagogo|cloud> :-/
<cjwatson> michagogo|cloud: in the event of a cease-and-desist threat, I suppose we might have to look at it, but in general if such a thing is required the best we could do would be to issue an "update" that replaces the package with something essentially empty
<michagogo|cloud> The issue is with the Bitcoin software
<michagogo|cloud> It's really not anywhere near mature enough to be in any "stable" release
<cjwatson> (probably no point telling me more about it now, I have to go and do childcare)
<michagogo|cloud> For example, version 0.3.24, shipping in Precise's Universe, will simply not work with the rest of the network
<Noskcaj> cjwatson, Would you mind giving me a testimonial for MOTU at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Noskcaj#MOTU ?
<rbasak> michagogo|cloud: are you aware of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBackports? That, or a PPA, would be a good place to maintain Bitcoin for Ubuntu, if somebody wants to do it.
<rbasak> Actually I think there is a PPA for it.
<rbasak> (though of course you have to trust the PPA, which is an issue for Bitcoin more than most other software)
<ersi> Yes, there is an official Bitcoin PPA: http://bitcoin.org/en/download leads to https://launchpad.net/~bitcoin/+archive/bitcoin
<michagogo|cloud> rbasak: Yes, there is ppa:bitcoin/bitcoin, maintained by BlueMatt (Matt Corallo), one of the core deva
<michagogo|cloud> devs*
<michagogo|cloud> The issue, though, is that the software, in its current state, is not really suitable for distribution as part of a frozen release
<michagogo|cloud> For a multitude of reasons.
<michagogo|cloud> For example, the Ubuntu repos don't include BDB 4.8.
<michagogo|cloud> 4.8 is the version that release binaries for all platforms are built against
<michagogo|cloud> Ubuntu ships Bitcoin builds with BDB 5.1. BDB is used in Bitcoin for the wallet.
<michagogo|cloud> BDB 5.1 databases are not backwards-compatible with BDB 4.8.
<michagogo|cloud> Meaning that a Bitcoin wallet that was created, or ever loaded, by an Ubuntu release of Bitcoin instantly becomes non-portable, incompatible with everything else.
<michagogo|cloud> Now, there is zero warning and zero notification to the user of this
<michagogo|cloud> Fortunately, Scott Howard of the Debian Bitcoin Maintainers Team does understand, and was able to get the package removed from Debian stable (wheezy), leaving it only in the unstable branch. This and many other issues make the Bitcoin software unsuitable for inclusion in a stable release. It's simply irresponsible to leave it in like this.
<rbasak> michagogo|cloud: you could ask for an exception to the Debian importer, and then get bitcoin removed from the development release. That's a clearer first step at least - to stop further releases.
<rbasak> michagogo|cloud: it seems to me that auto-upgrading wallets is a bug though, rather than a release process issue.
<rbasak> (if you consider that behaviour to be wrong)
#ubuntu-motu 2013-12-12
<dholbach> good morning
<michagogo|cloud> rbasak: What would be the process to do that?
<rbasak> michagogo|cloud: I'm not sure. I suggest you try the ubuntu-release mailing list, point out that bitcoin is not in testing in Debian and ask for the same in Trusty.
<rbasak> michagogo|cloud: I'm not sure that it's actually possible, but it sounds like a reasonable request to me. Just provide the list with the same justifications.
<michagogo|cloud> Also, as I understand it, auto-upgrading the wallet is a BDB thing, not a Bitcoin thing -- in other words, when BDB 5.1 opens a BDB 4.8 database, it upgrades it. Also, upstream specifically always uses 4.8 -- the contrib/debian/control file's Build-Depends calls for libdb4.8++-dev specifically
<michagogo|cloud> rbasak: Is there a deadline for that to happen, by the way?
<rbasak> michagogo|cloud: is there no way to get BDB to not do that? Eg. open read-only and check version first?
<michagogo|cloud> (I don't want to unilaterally start making requests, I'd like to discuss it in #bitcoin-dev and/or the bitcoin-development mailing list first)
<rbasak> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseSchedule
<rbasak> michagogo|cloud: ^^ looks like Feb 20th for feature freeze. You should get it done in advance, though, since you'll need others to actually do things before that date.
<michagogo|cloud> Right, of course
<michagogo|cloud> Is FeatureFreeze the relevant date?
<rbasak> It's a bit blurry for packages in universe, but I'd say that it's the most relevant point on the release schedule, yes. If it can be decided and done before then, then people shouldn't complain too much.
#ubuntu-motu 2013-12-13
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2013-12-14
<hakermania> Hello. I have a question about the inclusion of a package in the repos. I am the packager of Wallch and I want to include the latest version of it in Ubuntu 14.04.'s repos. The thing is that we are adding multi desktop-environment support. This means that different code will be compiled for different desktop environments. Should X different packages get into the repos, where X is the number of the supported DEs?
<xnox> hakermania: or just make it runtime detection. e.g. plenty of software out there can detect and use unity shortcuts (if available), gnome3 headerbar (if available), normal menubar on most DEs etc.
<xnox> hakermania: and it's best to upload via Debian
<hakermania> xnox, I've already uploaded Wallch into the repos twice, so I don't think that uploading via Debian is the best choice for now. I know that the detection can be done during runtime and that would be the best choice, but I will have to have the dependencies for all the DEs into one binary, which is not ideal
<hakermania> What do you think?
<hakermania> into one binary / into one binary package
<xnox> you don't have to declare all dependenices.
<xnox> they can be recommends.
<xnox> and e.g. for unity most of the things are over dbus
<xnox> and for gnome it's stock gtk so you already have them.
<xnox> the only cases were it's acceptable to split apps is for Qt vs Gtk+
<xnox> everything else is acceptable.
<xnox> each binary package adds a cost is size, mirroring, package lists length that gets downloaded on _all_ machines not just people who use your app.
<xnox> so tell me how the dependencies are different to warrant new binary packages?
<xnox> surely detection is done is a way to not cause getting dependencies.
<hakermania> xnox, I am trying to solve this problem but I don't get how to do runtime detection and not have all the dependencies as well. Your code must contain e.g. code that needs libunity. How can this code run if libunity is not installed ?
<xnox> hakermania: you can, e.g. dlopen(), but there is no reason to not link against libunity9, it's a small enough library
<xnox> hakermania: and many people will have it installed already anyway.
<xnox> hakermania: and i'm pretty sure one can interract with unity launcher without libunity9
<hakermania> xnox, I also depend on gio-2.0 for gsettings function - which is gnome specific
<xnox> gsettings are usable from any DE
<xnox> if you have qt/kde frontend and gtk one, sure split it into two packages.
<xnox> but it does not make sence to split: unity, kubuntu, gnome, gnome3, xfce, lxde, monad, etc.
<xnox> see for example transmission: it has curses, qt and gtk frontends.
<xnox> but it does share common settings on the backend.
<xnox> hakermania: can you actually show your app?
<hakermania> xnox, What I mean is that in GNOME i use gio/gio.h which will be a global dependency while it is usable only in GNOME like libunity is usable only in Unity
<xnox> gseetings is not gnome specific, it's actually multi-platform.
<hakermania> and in transmission is about frontend, not backend
<hakermania> The application is Wallch, wait a bit for link
<xnox> gio is usable on windows/macosx/linux regardless of the DE
<hakermania> http://melloristudio.com/ourprojects/wallch
<xnox>  + gio has no visual affect.
<hakermania> xnox, thanks for the info, I was not aware of it.
<xnox> and all DEs have gio in ubuntu.
<hakermania> xnox, I am not targetting only Ubuntu.
<xnox> sure.
<hakermania> xnox, So, you recommend leaving libunity-dev a dependency as is and doing a runtime check for the DE where I will change in every different DE the desktop background using gsettings
<hakermania> Is this truly applicable?
<xnox> i'm confused why you are using libunity though.
<xnox> on unity, desktop wallpapers are changed by changing gsettings keys.....
<hakermania> xnox, for unity support. Unity launcher progressbar + shortcuts
<hakermania> xnox, I know that.
<hakermania> I have to go for now, sorry.
<hakermania> I will login later
<hakermania> xnox, Hello again. I want to sum it up a little bit. I want to make Wallch available in multiple different desktop environments. I am using DE-specific libraries for Gnome and Unity (like gio.h and unity.h) but in the other DEs I am planning into launching external commands for changing the background. If gsettings is able to change the background everywhere, then I will totally go with it and libunity indeed is small and thus there is not
<hakermania>  a dependency problem. I will do a runtime check for the DE and run the appropriate code each time. The thing is, can gsettings be used in every DE? I haven't heard that again.
<xnox> hakermania: instead of unity.h, you can use dbus calls (see wiki page)
<xnox> and dbus is universally dependant.
<xnox> if a DE is using gsettings then yeah...
<hakermania> xnox, Indeed. But the code is ready and it already uses libunity. Either way libunity is a very small package and shouldn't be bothering anyone. The thing that bothers me more is the gio dependency which will be uneeded in the DEs that don't use gsettings. As far as I know many DEs don't use it. I am not sure where you were referring to when talking about all these DEs that use it.
<xnox> hakermania: it should be possible, e.g. here is an example from ubiquity-dm that executes stuff for xfce, gnome, unity, lxc, xcfe conditionally, if available/installed. http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/saucy/ubiquity/saucy/view/head:/bin/ubiquity-dm#L392
<xnox> (sure it's python, but still if you are forking exec() and check if things are available you don't gain mandatory dependencies.
<hakermania> xnox, Of course. That's what I am indented to do. As you can see, it calls external processes.
<hakermania> It doesn't call gsettings functions
<xnox> hakermania: right. so about gio.
<xnox> linking against libgtk / libglib is absolutely ok (that's where gio is provided)
<xnox> you are correct that it might be dead-code, under some environments. So it's a good thing to make a compile-time option, for those who need/want a slim down version.
<xnox> in debian/ubuntu however, the default policy is to enable all compile time options possible
<xnox> such that a single (abeit larger) binary can be executed under any DEs.
<xnox> so yeah, i believe gsettings will work on gnome3, gnome-classic & unity.
<xnox> but e.g. you'll need something else / additional code for xfce etc.
<xnox> hakermania: as long as your code gracefully handles all conditions and failures you should be fine.
<hakermania> xnox, thanks a lot for helping out :)
#ubuntu-motu 2013-12-15
<tsmithe> Is there someone i can talk to about (ppa) builds and memory usage? This isn't immediately related to motu, but I hope the package will eventually be in universe (probably via Debian, though)
<mitya57> !ask | tsmithe
<ubottu> tsmithe: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<tsmithe> mitya57, thanks -- but I didn't know if this was the right channel!
<mitya57> Well, ask it and we'll see if it's the right channel :)
<tsmithe> my question is: can someone look and see if my build is using / failing because of excessive memory -- the i386 build completed in 23 minutes, but the amd64 build died with no specific error after 2.5 hours. i've retried it and it seems to be doing the same. on my machine, in a pbuilder, the build succeeds, but eats around 4gb of ram. i think that might have something to do with it.
<tsmithe> of course, having retried the build, the old log is not available. but the machine it's currently building on is wani10. and the log is at https://launchpad.net/~tsmithe/+archive/pyviennacl/+build/5336810
<mitya57> let me look
<tsmithe> thanks
<mitya57> (sorry, had to reboot)
<mitya57> well, I have i386, and it seems to build fine here
<tsmithe> np
 * mitya57 looks at the package more deeply
<tsmithe> yeah. the trouble seems to be, i think, on amd64, because of the extra memory requirements
<mitya57> the package seems small enough, I don't think it's memory related
<mitya57> i.e. webkit or pypy build fine on LP, while they are 100 times bigger
<tsmithe> yeah, it's because _viennacl.cpp brings in a header-only library (viennacl), and has a load of macros for different types. the source is small, but it expands out massively
<tsmithe> (on my machine, cc1plus uses around 3.8-3.9 gb of ram)
<tsmithe> webkit or pypy might not have any single files that have that property..
<tsmithe> (i intend to split the source up in the long run, but i hoped not to have to do it for this first release)
<mitya57-mobile> Bah, that package made my machine hang again :)
<tsmithe> my package?!
<mitya57-mobile> The build :)
<mitya57-mobile> Well, I think you need some Launchpad admin (I.e. wgrant), but probably tomorrow will be a better day for that
<tsmithe> ok. thanks, mitya57-mobile
<tsmithe> is there a channel where they congregate specifically, or is here ok?
<mitya57-mobile> #launchpad should be a better place
<tsmithe> thanks. i'll stay in this channel, in case anyone sees my plight and is piqued
<mitya57-mobile> Great!
#ubuntu-motu 2014-12-08
<HFSPLUS-> !ops
<ubottu> Help! Hobbsee, Riddell, sladen, fbond, mneptok, gnomefreak, Seveas, dholbach, elkbuntu, PriceChild, or jpds!
<dholbach> good morning
<Logan_> hey dholbach :)
<dholbach> hi Logan_
#ubuntu-motu 2014-12-09
<sney> I have a new upload for hexchat that will satisfy LP:1396871, but I'm splitting up the package layout and apparently that means it'll have to go through NEW. I've heard that's slow currently - is that accurate, and is there any way to expedite the process?
<tumbleweed> sney: any reason that can't go through Debian?
<sney> erm, probably not. brain fart
<tumbleweed> (experimental, presumably)
<tumbleweed> NEW is currently not that pretty https://ftp-master.debian.org/stat.html :(
<Noskcaj> sney, You may as well make a merge request for ubuntu, but try for debian experimental too
<Mirv> Debian's NEW has often been understaffed, but still that should not usually be too much of a reason to do Ubuntu-only upload
<Mirv> hmm, well, another small obstacle is that hexchat is not LowNMU and has only a single maintainer, not a team (packages in Debian tend to be more strongly attached to specific maintainers than in Ubuntu)
<Mirv> ah, but, hexchat is at least in collab-maint git in Debian which is nice
<Unit193> Mirv: sn ey is that one maintainer though. ;)
<Mirv> Unit193: ok, that changes the picture somewhat :D
#ubuntu-motu 2014-12-10
<dholbach> good morning
<profzoom> Hello!  I'm preparing a new package, unity-greeter-badges.  I have one MOTU already willing to sponsor it, and I'm looking for another.  Is anyone interested?  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-greeter/+bug/1396851
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1396851 in unity-greeter (Ubuntu) "[needs-packaging] Add package containing Unity Greeter badges" [Wishlist,In progress]
#ubuntu-motu 2014-12-11
<Squidward> !ops | help channel emergency drunk doing this
<ubottu> help channel emergency drunk doing this: Help! Hobbsee, Riddell, sladen, fbond, mneptok, gnomefreak, Seveas, dholbach, elkbuntu, PriceChild, or jpds!
<Squidward> rww, yo
<Squidward> rww, ban me my nigga
<Squidward> rww, cat and mouse
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2014-12-12
<dholbach> good morning
<Rhonda> Does vivid autosync from Debian unstable, or from testing?
<Rhonda> i.e., do I have to file a sync request for wesnoth-1.12 which just landed in unstable, or not? :)
<geser> you don't need file request if you have upload rights (for that package), you can trigger the sync yourself if needed/wanted
<mapreri> Rhonda: unstable
<Rhonda> geser: That's what I mean, do I need to trigger it, or is it done automatically. :)
<Rhonda> It's a new source package.
#ubuntu-motu 2015-12-07
<dholbach> good morning
<sladen> and here too
<_shaun_> hi guys i have a massive image that ubuntu insists on printing to one page, how do i print this image to multiple pages?
<Logan> !support | _shaun_
<ubottu> _shaun_: The official ubuntu support channel is #ubuntu. Please be aware that this channel is for development only.
<Rhonda> Hmmmmm.  How do I create me a precise cowbuilder chroot â¦  It fails with "Package 'cowdancer' has no installation candidate"
<Rhonda> Hmm, not even on a precise system itself I can do a cowbuilder --create --distribution precise, wtf â¦
<Rhonda> Ah, --components 'main universe'  #checks
<Rhonda> Pfehw, that was it.
<Na3iL> o/
#ubuntu-motu 2015-12-08
<dholbach> good morning
<Unit193> Logan: You happen to see my spam of https://sigma.unit193.net/source/newsbeuter_2.9-0ubuntu1.dsc ? :D
<Logan> Unit193: nope :P
<Unit193> Logan: Fixes a huge memory leak even!
#ubuntu-motu 2015-12-09
<JeavesJeaves> Hi.
<JeavesJeaves> I'm stupid and new to the whole packaging thing. Been using Ubuntu for a while and have read the packaging guide. I understand it. I just don't know how to go about finding things to package that aren't already in the repos.
<JeavesJeaves> Any help?
<JeavesJeaves> Whatever, I've gotta go.
<Unit193> There's still fixing other MOTU packages, but Ubuntu tends to like new ones in Debian first, unless it fits with phone plans or whatnot.
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2015-12-11
<dholbach> good morning
<benstrumental> Hello, I'd like to push my package upstream for review, but would not yet like to merge. How should I go about doing this?
#ubuntu-motu 2016-12-13
<rokclimb15> does anyone have a moment to answer a question about using quilt?
<rokclimb15> I'm working on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python2.7/+bug/1512068
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1512068 in python2.7 (Ubuntu) "Python ctypes.util , Shell Injection in find_library() " [High,Confirmed]
<jtaylor> what is the question?
<rokclimb15> when I unpack the initial source, the debian/patches/series file is empty
<rokclimb15> I use quilt to add my new patch
<rokclimb15> and that works
<rokclimb15> but when I run dpkg-buildpackage it executes rules that overwrite series
<rokclimb15> how can I pre-execute the appropriate debian/rules steps to get quilt series in sync before I add?
<rokclimb15> the debian rule is called debian/patches/series
<jtaylor> hm python is somewhat special in how it builds
<rokclimb15> I suspected so
<jtaylor> you should check with the maintainer doko
<rokclimb15> I know MOTU doesn't maintain that, but was hoping someone would know
<rokclimb15> thanks I'll do that
<jtaylor> you may be able to find him in ubuntu-devel, but probably not now anymore
<rokclimb15> I'll drop him an email if I still can't figure it out
<rokclimb15> thanks for your help
#ubuntu-motu 2016-12-14
<rokclimb15_> question for the group - if a debian patch introduces a regression that is being fixed, is it better form to modify the patch (and update Last-Update) or to create another series patch to fix the patch bug
<lfaraone> rokclimb15_: the former, and submit it back to Debian too if possible.
<rokclimb15_> thank you lfaraone. The issue has been filed with Debian, but not yet acted upon (its years old)
<rokclimb15_> I'll revise my debdiffs to alter the original patch
<fossfreedom> !budgie
<ubottu> Ubuntu Budgie is a community !flavour of Ubuntu featuring the Budgie desktop. Its first official release will be 17.04. As with all development versions, for questions involving Ubuntu Budgie 17.04 support, visit #ubuntu+1. Ubuntu Budgie 16.04 and 16.10 are not supported by the Ubuntu project. https://budgie-remix.org/
#ubuntu-motu 2017-12-13
<Pr0t3us> Can someone help me? I'm trying to package for a PPA but I keep creating empty binaries.. It goes through the entire build successfully and then for some reason doesn't put the binaries in usr/bin/ or the lib/include dependencies that are packaged with it.
<Pr0t3us> I AM THE SMARTEST MAN ALIVE
<Pr0t3us> I got it ;D
<sladen> Pr0t3us: where have you listed the files you expect to end up in /usr/bin ?
<Pr0t3us> I got it worked out :) My issue was using bzr builddeb instead of dpkg-buildpackage.
#ubuntu-motu 2018-12-13
<JJJollyjim> Hi all! http://packaging.ubuntu.com/html/fixing-a-bug.html says this is the place to go with questions about patching packages, but the package I'm hoping to patch is in main, not *verse -- is this still the right place?
<teward> JJJollyjim: the process for patching remains the same, whether it's for Universe or Main
<teward> (this channel is fairly dead though... but you can still ask)
<teward> JJJollyjim: if you have any questions, I'll be happy to help if I can :)
<JJJollyjim> hmm, I set up pbuilder with pbuilder-dist bionic create
<JJJollyjim> and am now attempting pbuilder-dist bionic build xyz.dsc
<JJJollyjim> but it errors out trying to extract /home/testuser/pbuilder/bionic-base.tgz, which is a zero byte file!
<JJJollyjim> the create command went through with no error messages
<JJJollyjim> any ideas?
<JJJollyjim> (no error messages apart from "W: No local /etc/mailname to copy, relying on /var/cache/pbuilder/build/9657/etc/mailname to be correct", which sounds unimportant)
<Logan> JJJollyjim: I would remove that file and try again. It sounds like it failed at creating the base tarball
<JJJollyjim> Unfortunately I already did remove ~/pbuild and try again, with the same outcome
