#ubuntu-uk 2011-03-14
<slobex> hi
<HazRPG> hi
<MooDoo> hello all
<AlanBell> morning
<knightwise> mornin
<danfish> lo
<andylockran> Good Morning Guys and Gals
<andylockran> How are things?
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning all.
<andylockran> I've got a DNS query :p   If you have two servers setup, and you modify the slave and adjust the serial - will that get picked up by the master - or is the master/slave relationship a standard master/slave - in that all edits need to be done on the master?
<MartijnVdS> no
<MartijnVdS> well
<MartijnVdS> If you've configured them as master/slave you should always edit on the master
<MartijnVdS> the slave will only have the zone file in /var/cache/ somewhere
<MartijnVdS> (it shouldn't have its own copy in /etc)
<andylockran> Yeah, ok. Thanks MartijnVdS.  Just trying to work out whether it's possible to have a multi-master DNS.
<MartijnVdS> andylockran: powerdns -- update the database, all servers using it update:)
<andylockran> i.e if the master goes down, my slaves will run for 2 weeks without comms from the master.. but probably sensible to have to manually turn slave into master in that situation.
<MartijnVdS> yes
<daubers> Morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
<DJones> Good morning all
<czajkowski> howdy dooody
<TheOpenSourcerer> hey czajkowski - shame about wales eh ;-)
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: if I were you I'd stay very quiet
<czajkowski> be nice you know, if  we'd have had a ref who knew how to ref!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Grand Slam next weekend then eh?
<czajkowski> for ye yes possible
<czajkowski> your pass hasn't been revoked then
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nope - in fact I confirmed it again yesterday.
<czajkowski> however fair fecks to Italy for beating the French
<czajkowski> love it when they get beaten
<TheOpenSourcerer> That was a great game indeed czajkowski - I could tell the French were upset by the ref we had on Sunday. But at least he had to go off injured...
<TheOpenSourcerer> The game changed once he was replaced.
<czajkowski> it's frustrating how a game can be controlled over a ref and a call
<DJones> No matter what sport it is, I always expect the Ref & linesmen to walk onto the pitch to the tune of "Three blind mice"
<hoover> mornin
<kazade> morning all
<screen-x> morning :)
<hoover> mornin ;-)
<JamesTait> Happy Pi Day everyone! (In US format, at least...)
<screen-x> :)
<DJones> mhhhm Pie :)
<JamesTait> DJones: I thought exactly the same thing. :D
<DJones> JamesTait: :) As long as its proper pie, none of that wishy washy US style Pumpkin pie etc, give me a nice steak & kidney or apple pie
<JamesTait> Mmmmm, steak. :)
<DJones> Years ago, my mother-in-law bought apple pies from morrisons, got home heated them up for tea, served them up with custard as you'd expect, they bit into them and found they'd been mislabed, they should have been mince & onion
<screen-x> DJones: /o\
<screen-x> DJones: did you scrape off the custard and carry on?
<DJones> screen-x: It was before I knew them, I think they scraped it off & took them back
<DJones> I'd have carried on eating them, it all ends up in the same place
<popey> Morning!
 * czajkowski hugs popey 
<czajkowski> how are all this lovely sunny morning
<popey> Great!
<czajkowski> fantastic
<MooDoo> Fab thanks
<czajkowski> sunny out, and we're making pancakes on the BBQ here by the canal
<czajkowski> :D
<MooDoo> czajkowski: meh!
<DJones> screen-x: Just as funny was my 90 year old gran making a triffle, puts the jelly in, covers it with cling film to set, comes back later with the custard & couldn't see the cling film & had fogotten about it & poured the custard all over the cling film which then went all over the kitchen worktop
<czajkowski> http://chrisjrob.wordpress.com/2011/03/13/installing-debian-on-a-thin-client-pc/
<popey> hahah DJones
<DJones> popey: :)
<czajkowski> DJones: hah ha
<X3N> morning
<popey> yes, it is!
<lloowen> Hi all! Can anyone recommend a good how to on setting up a chroot environment. I would like to jail Dropbox!
<dogmatic69> why would you want to do that?
<lloowen> Because I notices changes to my /etc/fstab by dropbox and I don't trust closed source software.
<screen-x> Colleague asked to see paperwork from an air conditioning install a couple of years ago. I knew I had archived it all in a paper file, but couldn't find it. Eventually found it on said colleague's desk.
<screen-x> lloowen: whats dropbox done to fstab?
<lloowen> It has commented out my home partition settings and added its own variant. I like dropbox, but I think I would like it even better if I could run it in a chroot environment.
<DJones> lloowen: Is your home partition running inside a dropbox folder?
<DJones> or /home folder I should say
<lloowen> My dropbox folder is in my /home/meuser/
<hamitron> morning all
<lloowen> If it can do that what else can Dropbox do?
<screen-x> lloowen: whatever the account it runs as can do.
<screen-x> lloowen: could write an apparmor profile if you are worried about it.
<DJones> lloowen: I can't understand why dropbox would modify fstab, mine certainly hasn't, just checked & its set as normal with a uuid
<screen-x> DJones: there are reports of dropbox adding user_xattr, which shouldnt be a problem.
<DJones> screen-x: I've not come across that
<lloowen> This is what it did.
<lloowen> # Commented out by Dropbox
<lloowen> # /dev/sda6       /home           reiserfs defaults        0       2
<lloowen> /dev/sda6 /home reiserfs defaults,user_xattr 0 2
<screen-x> DJones: no I haven't either, just been googling.
<screen-x> lloowen: did it ask?
<lloowen> No. If it asked me if it could change my fstab, I'd say no!
<screen-x> that is cheeky.
<DJones> Hmm, twitter works, irc works, email works, internet in any browser has stopped
<screen-x> DJones: dns resolution?
<DJones> screen-x: Looks like it, DNS lookup failed
<SuperMatt> murderfs D:
<lloowen> Does anyone know a good how-to on setting up chroot environments for applications?
<screen-x> lloowen: could try https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BasicChroot
<hamitron> hmmmm
<lloowen> I found this http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/Jail_Dropbox But I'm not sure how to apply this to Ubuntu
<DJones> screen-x: DNS fixed, just been looking up the user_xattr, seems to be something about file permissions on under some drive formats ext4 seems to be mentioned
<Myrtti> *sigh*
<czajkowski> Myrtti: you ok?
<directhex> extended attributes, i.e. ACLs
<Myrtti> czajkowski: other than tired beyond belief, yeah. D has sniffles though :-(
<DJones> directhex: Yes, thats what I was reading, although went mostly over my head
<Myrtti> downloading natty alpha to test on my old work laptop, this might be fun
<directhex> DJones, allows permissions more sophisticated than "user, group, everyone" style
<directhex> DJones, e.g. set write permissions for two groups, not just one
<directhex> DJones, i hate to use the comparison, but windows has ACL permissions
<DJones> directhex: Thanks, that explains it a bit better
<danfish> wotcha - the better half's (dell) netbook has gone to the great electronic graveyard in the sky. What's good these days?
<ali1234> pinetrail
<danfish> requirements - ubuntu of course, light web browsing and email
<czajkowski> Myrtti: I hope you dont lose sound
<directhex> danfish, sounds like you need a netbook.
<danfish> directhex: heh
<Myrtti> czajkowski: which is why old work laptop, not the new ;-)
<czajkowski> smart
<DJones> Myrtti: Hope you don't lose grub, the two installs I've done of natty, grub failed on both of them
 * czajkowski mutters
<Myrtti> I'm happy if I'm able to run shred from the live session, that's my main goal
<Myrtti> after that it's all a bonus
<DJones> This looks like the bug I found, I was trying btrfs anyway https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+source/grub2/+bug/712029
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 712029 in grub2 (Ubuntu Natty) "ubiquity btrfs install fails to boot (grub rescue> prompt)" [High,Fix released]
<livingdaylight> greetings
<popey> Salutations Human!
<livingdaylight> yes, I am a flesh and blood Human!
<livingdaylight> with a living Soul!
<livingdaylight> got a friend asking whether ubuntu is faster than xp?
<livingdaylight> are there benchmark comparison studies/results?
<popey> faster at what?
<directhex> it gets over 2000 bungholiomarks!
<livingdaylight> faster at what? hrmm?
<screen-x> directhex: Are there any improvements in Natty? Should I expect a higher BHM rating on similar hardware?
<dogmatic69> livingdaylight: ubuntu does not have BSOD's
<popey> dogmatic69: it has kernel panic attacks though
<dogmatic69> never seen one :)
 * screen-x gives the kernel a paper bag to breath into
<dogmatic69> lol
<ali1234> i haven't seen windows bluescreen since about 2002 either
<livingdaylight> his question is whether  ubuntu is faster in terms of running applications. Reaction time?
<dogmatic69> ali1234: is that when you stopped using windows?
<dogmatic69> ;)
<screen-x> ali1234: uses windows on a monday to get an IP..
<ali1234> no, i stopped using windows in about 2005
<directhex> screen-x, slightly lower, but still better than a comparable 3d-flavoured ice lolly
<dogmatic69> livingdaylight: ubuntu caches stuff properly, something that only came about in vista and maybe only works properly in win7
<ali1234> i see other people's windows machines bluescreen a lot
<dogmatic69> opening apps will be much faster#
<screen-x> directhex: I find 2d ice lollies very disappointing
<popey> pffft, everyone has 4D lollies now. you guys are crusty old folk
<ali1234> that's because of bad hardware though
<ali1234> or "herp derp i can overclock too!"
 * popey feels old not knowing what "herp derp" means
 * screen-x is reading UD
<ali1234> i think you're just pretending not to know
<s-fox> Hello.
<DJones> Interesting, Carphone warehouse giving away Kindles with phones on 2 year contracts
<Dom__> they were giving away a PS3 with a phone at one stage, DJones
<dwatkins> that's better
<DJones> dwatkins: True, but I wouldn't have gone for one of them, a Kindle would be a possibility
<popey> ali1234: i have seen it used a lot, but dont know what it is
<popey> a bit like 'hipster', dunno what one is
<ali1234> you are so sheltered
<popey> clearly :)
<directhex> i'm looking forward to my contract ending :)
<dwatkins> I think I'd rather have the money than be given a Kindle, especially as it's most likely not the one with free 3G.
 * dwatkins got one for t'other half for christmas
<dogmatic69> dwatkins: straight to ebay
<gord> only wifi ones in the uk right?
<DJones> dwatkins: 3h version says Â£15 when bundled with a phone
<dwatkins> dogmatic69: yeah, you'd probably get a fairly good price for it
<DJones> s/3h/3g
<dwatkins> also, dogmatic69 - how are the flash player issues?
<dogmatic69> dwatkins: who cares about flash :D
 * dogmatic69 has an iPad
<Martiini> find command .. someone please teach me .. I want to find files containing "java" in root filesystem excluding /media
<dogmatic69> man find
<dogmatic69> :)
<nigelb> seeing dogmatic69 here confusing me what channel this is :p
<nigelb> gah
<popey> find / -name "*java*" -not -name "/media"
<screen-x> s/-name/-path/
<screen-x> (err but only the second instance)
<MooDoo> dogmatic69: i played with garageband on the ipad yesterday...
<Martiini> find . -name "*java*" -print ... is correct answer
<dogmatic69> MooDoo: and?
<MooDoo> dogmatic69: LOVED IT! :)
 * dogmatic69 spends more...
<dwatkins> MooDoo: thanks for reminding me, I need to make some custom ringtones with GarageBand
<dwatkins> Morse code of peopel's names
<dwatkins> *people's
<andylockran> howdy howdy howdy
<andylockran> howdy^9
<SuperMatt> does anyone in here know if fedora can be updated to the latest alpha via command line, like ubuntu can?
<MartijnVdS> No idea.. do Fedora support upgrading at all?
<SuperMatt> I don't know :/
<SuperMatt> I was hoping I might be able to update my box without any issues, but clearly not
<SuperMatt> I think as long as my hard drives are partitioned nicely, I should be able to reinstall without issue
<SuperMatt> ah good, I did partition sensibly \o/
<DJones> SuperMatt: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/YumUpgradeFaq
<SuperMatt> yeah, I think I'll re-install :P
<screen-x> seems like there is some form of upgrade, but there are definately mixed messages as to whether it is recommended. http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/14/html/Installation_Guide/ch19s02.html
<mungojerry> can anyone recommend any techniques for blocking search engine bots that don't honour robots.txt files?
<mungojerry> one bot from ukraine used 86% of the total bandwidth last motnh
<screen-x> mungojerry: maybe denyhosts? something that reads the logs and picks out clients that are too persistent.
<mungojerry> hmm. i'm not sure if the address is in denyhosts or not - the site should get spidered but ignore certain paths/filenames based upon robots file..some files are 100mb in size. i could write my own to grep the logs, or just run webaliser more frequently and use iptables i guess.
<screen-x> mungojerry: denyhosts will add hosts to deny, based on rules you specify. (like fail2ban)
<mungojerry> ahh i see..was thinking of another blacklisting service
<gavin_lew> hello, having problems with a geforce gfx card, nvidia driver 270.30 and twinview , anyone have any advice, 1 monitor is connected by VGA and is recongised and displays video, the second monitor connected via DVI just says no input
<screen-x> gavin_lew: have you setup both screens with nvidia-settings?
<hamitron> gavin_lew: what graphics card?
<gavin_lew> nvidia-settings set the screens up ok
<gavin_lew> its a geforce 8400 gs
<gavin_lew> it was working until i upgraded the gfx driver from 173 maybe to the latest
<gavin_lew> the screen connected to the DVI port just doesnt get a video signal
<hamitron> is there any reason you'd want to update to such a new driver?
<gavin_lew> the older driver wasnt giving me 3d acceleration
<screen-x> hamitron: 8400gs is supported in the latest drivers, so why not?
 * directhex is suddenly suspicious. which cards are supported on 270.30?
<hamitron> I recall someone else having a problem with the early 8000 series
<screen-x> directhex: 270 or 260?
<directhex> either. neither. whatever. is there a handy matrix for this stuff?
<screen-x> http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux-display-ia32-260.19.44-driver.html
<screen-x> not very handy though
<screen-x> 260.19.44 includes 8 series 400 GS, 8800 GTS 512, 8800 Ultra, 8300 GS, 8600 GTS, 8800 GTX, 8300, 8400, 8200, 8100 / nForce 720a, 8400 SE, 8600 GS, 8800 GS, 8800 GT, 8800 GTS, 8500 GT
<screen-x> hmm missed the first 8.
<directhex> wow, it goes back as far as 6-series cards
<directhex> and people complain
<hamitron> I do
<hamitron> ;/
<gavin_lew> i think the issue is something to-do with DFP-0 (wasnt this introduced recently), the older drivers simply refered to the displays as CRT0/CRT1
<directhex> it's always been DFP-0 for internal laptop screens, iirc
<gavin_lew> this is just 2 lcd panels , no laptop
<hamitron> which version of ubuntu has 270 drivers btw?
<hamitron> 11.04?
<directhex> none iirc. i'm guessing nvidia-installer breakage
<directhex> wait, it's in natty now
<directhex> wasn't last time i looked
<directhex> nvidia-glx-185 | 270.29-0ubuntu3 | natty/restricted | amd64, i386
<hamitron> !natty
<lubotu3> Natty Narwhal is the codename for Ubuntu 11.04, due April 28 2011 - Help and support (only) in #ubuntu+1 - Natty is unstable and is not intended for production systems.
<hamitron> I don't do animal names ;)
<gavin_lew> do we have any ideas? , can i paste the xorg.conf screen sections ?
<mungojerry> gavin_lew: i had probs like this on an older card and older version of drivers..it was xorg.conf related
<mungojerry> i am running intel on this machine so can't help, but if somebody has nvidia they should at least post their working xorg
<gavin_lew> going from a 44" display down to 22" sucks :)
<gavin_lew> looking at the xorg.conf it doesnt look right
<ali1234> it was like last week
<ali1234> 8400gs has serious problems with the latest driver
<ali1234> serious = no output at all, even though it says it is working in the log
<hamitron> ali1234: it was the 8400gs?
<ali1234> yes
<hamitron> ah :)
<hamitron> interesting that the VGA output is working, and not the DVI
<ali1234> it can affect VGA too
<hamitron> k
 * hamitron pets his geforce 2
<gavin_lew> shall i just order a new gfx card? :)
<hamitron> cheap cards from 6 series onwards seem to have a lot of trouble generally imo
<gavin_lew> the only other spare we have here is the same as what i got :(
<hamitron> gavin_lew: the 17x series works
<hamitron> drivers I mean
<dogmatic69> could anyone tell me what this is please
<dogmatic69> "sshd[10001]: reverse mapping checking getaddrinfo for 217-155-37-221.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk [217.155.37.221] failed - POSSIBLE BREAK-IN ATTEMPT!"
<dogmatic69> in the logs ...
<jpds> dogmatic69: http://www.electrictoolbox.com/reverse-mapping-possible-break-in-ssh/
<jpds> There's a whole load of google results for "reverse mapping checking getaddrinfo".
<dogmatic69> tx
<DJones> scoundrel50: Ping
<scoundrel50> Oh, that is strange, been trying to get on here for ages, and when I enter the #ubuntu-uk in the chanel box, press enter nothing happens
<scoundrel50> can see you now though, thanks. :)
<scoundrel50> I just wondered, I want to change .JPG to.jpg I used to have a command to do that but can remember what it was. Does somebody know what command I would need?
<jpds> scoundrel50: mv ?
<DJones> scoundrel50: Glad you've made it anyway
<scoundrel50> Its to change all the endings in the folder
<gavin_lew> mv *.JPG *.jpg should do it
<gavin_lew> ?
<gavin_lew> hmm how about a 512mb Palit GT 220 800mhz gddr2 48 core
<dutchie> gavin_lew: no, that won't work
<gavin_lew> :(
<dutchie> you want the rename command
<screen-x> gavin_lew: test that on some files you dont like
<directhex> gavin_lew, that will kill almost all your files
<dutchie> so rename 's/\.JPG$/.jpg/' *.JPG
<gavin_lew> ooh sorry :(
<dutchie> worth checking with the -n option first
<directhex> gavin_lew, it will expand to something like "mv 1.JPG 2.JPG 3.JPG *.jpg", thereby rename 1.JPG to *.jpg, then renaming 2.JPG to *.jpg (losing the earlier file), the n renaming 3.JPG to *.jpg (ditto)
<screen-x> ooh mv a* b* doesnt do what I expected
<mungojerry> scoundrel50: thunar file manager has a good bulk renamer as part of the gui
<screen-x> I expected it to move all the files onto the last file, but instead it sensibly complains about it not being a dir.
<scoundrel50> mungojerry: hi, I tried using that, but it freezes laptop. Using that other command, just changed the whole lot in the folder
<scoundrel50> its not moving from one to another its changing the .JPG to .jpg, I will give that command a try, dutchie, it was a different command to the one I had before, but I'll give it a try
<dogmatic69> got someone trying to hack my server
<dogmatic69> persistent guy as well
<mungojerry> dogmatic69: often it's a script. i found one that had got into our sytem via a weak password, then had a dictionary list to test against various servers, sending all successful info to an irc channel
<mungojerry> fail2ban should be a good place to start
<dogmatic69> its a Korean ip
<dogmatic69> got ssh only login...
<mungojerry> we get a lot from chinese universities and also korean too..great firewall of china doesn't do a good job of keeping them out
<dogmatic69> yip its korean edu something ip
<screen-x> dogmatic69: denyhosts/fail2ban are good, but be sure to whitelist yourself :)
<scoundrel50> ok, that worked thank you.
<mungojerry> dogmatic69: however the script that i saw was then using the compromised account to run the script against 100s of other hosts
<dogmatic69> 114.70.60.247 is the ip
<dogmatic69> phpinfo showing there...
<mungojerry> so the originating IP may just be a compromised account
<mungojerry> you can send a mail to the abuse address, and the university should investgate
<dogmatic69> could be
<czajkowski> DJones: TheOpenSourcerer http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/mar/14/wales-ireland-six-nations-2011
<andylockran> anyone give me advice on how to enable coredumps in apache (caveat is that I'm using CentOS) http://blog.blacknode.net/2009/07/enable-core-dumps-with-apache-rhel5/
<DJones> czajkowski: I'm getting 404 page not found with that link
<czajkowski> DJones: click again
<czajkowski> working here fine
<DJones> czajkowski: Tried 3 times, same thing each time
<czajkowski> DJones: it clearly doesnt like you
<czajkowski> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/mar/14/wales-ireland-six-nations-2011
<czajkowski> clock again
<DJones> czajkowski: That works
<dogmatic69>  works for me
<czajkowski> DJones: special
<DJones> Yep, I've worked out why it didn't work
<DJones> The window size I've got irssi in was exactly the same size as the length of the line & putty/irssi was treating the timestamp on the next line as part of the url
<DJones> czajkowski: Although they get the appology, they never change results though, do they have video ref decisions for the 6 nations?
<czajkowski> aye
<czajkowski> if they were unawarded the try we'd have won
<dogmatic69> anyone here know how i can test git hooks/
<dogmatic69> ?*
<DJones> czajkowski: Very true, but I they would never backdate that decision
<czajkowski> nope they wont
<czajkowski> we just all know wales shouldnt be 7 pts more
<dutchie> czajkowski: to be fair, if the touch judge hadn't been so sure, they probably would have gone to the TMO
<czajkowski> wont go to TMO unless it's a score
<dutchie> it was a score, no?
<czajkowski> fast pass line out
<mungojerry> SNORE
<czajkowski> mungojerry: you ok there ?
<czajkowski> sorry if we're boting you
 * hamitron cuts mungojerry's throat out with a power drill
<czajkowski> *boring
<mungojerry> it's ok...i meant to spend less time on irc this week. talking about rugby is keeping me away :)
<mungojerry> only just noticed the !topic
<czajkowski> mungojerry: it's a community loc channel we do talk about lots of things beside Ubuntu
<mungojerry> of course :)
<czajkowski> *loco
<hamitron> that is discrimination against people with normal shaped balls :/
<czajkowski> less snoring so, it's kinda rude
<czajkowski> :)
<hamitron> 1 more match to win, then it is all over mungojerry
<hamitron> guess we are both looking forward to that
<czajkowski> hamitron: and then september for the world cup
<czajkowski> and we can go back to the H cup also
<hamitron> well, a break is good
<hamitron> too much distraction from proper work
<czajkowski> 9th April kicks off again
<screen-x> mungojerry: (as requested last week) GO AWAY!
<mungojerry> :)
<mungojerry> wondered who i mentioned that to.
<mungojerry> however i'm having a bad day today...lost of drilling noise in the building meaning i can't work
<hamitron> tbh, the 6 nations is the one I like to see most
<screen-x> :(
 * hamitron sighs
<hamitron> need to switch computer cabling on my desk
<hamitron> but it is real effort unplugging all these machines and re-working it all
<screen-x> mungojerry: I have screaming kids outside my window (nursery). I keep my window shut as long as possible but sometimes its just too warm.
<screen-x> hamitron: dust while your at it ;-)
<mungojerry> screen-x: warm?
<hamitron> screen-x: I intend to
<screen-x> mungojerry: in summer
<mungojerry> my place of work has been a building site for > 2yrs :(
<hamitron> :/
<mungojerry> including asbestos removal
<mungojerry> most days it is drilling and chainsawing of concrete
<mungojerry> and fire drills :(
<hamitron> cutting holes with fire ftw
<mungojerry> i mean fire alarms :P
<hamitron> not nearly as good :/
<screen-x> a fire drill does sound quite like a light saber
<hamitron> patent pending!
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> hmmm
<hamitron> how many comps on 1 desk is too many?
<mungojerry> 11
<screen-x> hamitron: when desk breaks
<hamitron> I have removed my waste bins to make room for more
<hamitron> but now it seems I may have to remove my legs
<screen-x> hamitron: or maybe when you start wearing noise cancelling headphones
<hamitron> yeh well, I do go for quiet :)
<hamitron> but tbh, this i3 is amazing, dunno why I thought I may need more power
<hamitron> I reckon I could get most things done on this one machine
<hamitron> unfortunately, that would mean not using linux as I my main OS
<hamitron> so doubt I will cut back that far
<mungojerry> can you not stash them in the loft and run rdesktop?
<hamitron> no
<hamitron> if I was going to be happy with remote stuff, I'd just run virtual machines
<hamitron> :/
<mungojerry> Q: is it possible to do greppy type stuff in ooffice calc
<hamitron> like scripting?
<mungojerry> i have a list of names and userid's on alternating lines, and i want to split them into separate columns
<mungojerry> as usual i've ended up saving as csv and doing grep
<shauno> <3 csv.  that's been the solution to all my excel woes too
<bigcalm> Ello peeps :)
<popey> yo yo yo
<s-fox> o/
<bigcalm> What am I missing out on?
<hamitron> some good stuff
 * popey wonders when ipad2 goes on pre-order :)
<screen-x> bigcalm: hamitron deciding whether to remove his legs to make space for more computers
<bigcalm> Driving to Scotland and back for the weekend isn't advisable. There are a lot of stupid drivers out there
<hamitron> popey: you giving me your ipad 1?
<czajkowski> popey: march 27th ?
<czajkowski> popey: ask filbert
<screen-x> hamitron: nah, the cats will use that to read ichc
<hamitron> ichc?
<screen-x> to the google-mobile!
<hamitron> cup of tea and some cakes are calling me
<hamitron> bbl
 * mungojerry noticed another person turning into a fulll apple person the other day. didn't realise that ideology played no part in OS choice whatsoever
<bigcalm> For some it does, for many is't just a tool
<mungojerry> i'm thinking of ryan paul, gwibber dev, who, unless his twitter account has been hijacked, has turned into an apple drone within space of 1 week
 * bigcalm ponders getting a mac
<DJones> bigcalm: Just get an umbrella
<shauno> mungojerry: that happens.  something about turning your computer on, and being able to just get on with it instead of filing bugs, is rather infectious ;)
<mungojerry> ..and leaving your principles and preferences outside :(
<DaveMorris> quick question.  What's the default key binding for switching tabs which are open in a gnome terminal?
<bigcalm> alt+f keys
<bigcalm> iirc
<mungojerry> ctrl-page down/up
<ali1234> lack of a public bug tracking system is not the same as a bug free operating system, and mac os has plenty
<DaveMorris> cheers mungojerry
<bigcalm> It can't have bugs, it looks so shiney!
<shauno> ali1234: when I run into one that's a "this computer is unusable" showstopper, I'll let you know
<ali1234> if mac "just works" for you then i would hazard a guess that you spend 100% of your time using a computer checking your twitter and facebook
<mungojerry> shauno: itunes?
<ali1234> which probably exlpains about the gwibber guy
<shauno> mungojerry: I was thinking more like not being able to use my trackpad on ubuntu anymore.
<mungojerry> ali1234: there's something strange about the way he suddenly flipped into being a fullon apple dude
<ali1234> like they say on /. "and nothing of value was lost"
<mungojerry> https://twitter.com/segphault/status/45937632961769472
<mungojerry> what's this #dickbar thing everyone is talking about?
<mungojerry> by everyone i mean people on twitter
<mungojerry> popey just mentioned it to
<mungojerry> o
<gord> certain process has been eating up too much cpu on my server - so i have gone all paranoid with top constantly watching it with an always on top terminal... its driving me crazy
<ali1234> haha i do that all the time
<mungojerry> conky?
<shauno> mungojerry: a bizarre UI element in twitter's mobile client, that's behavior earned the moniker; http://www.flickr.com/photos/scriptingnews/5502555362/
<ali1234> no, top in a terminal
<mungojerry> gord: what was the process
<mungojerry> shauno: cheers...looks like a similar experience to browsing omgubuntu ...lots of dickbar elements on their page too
<Azelphur> anyone else having issues with google images where it doesn't load the image after you click on it, you just get a white page?
<ali1234> probably one of: firefox, flash, java, or slocate-updatedb
<Azelphur> I have to keep viewing the page source and extracting the URL to use google images, very irritating
<mungojerry> twitter want to do away with 3rd party apps...there are better business models than that
<gord> mungojerry, deluge
<popey> mungojerry: its a bar that is displayed in the official twitter client
<ali1234> "No one yet knows why people use Twitter"
<ali1234> i do
<ali1234> it's because they like to talk but don't like to listen
<popey> mungojerry: I think you're making some assumptions about Ryan
<popey> mungojerry: there's no way you can know how long it's taken him to decide to switch to OSX
<ali1234> long enough to develop gwibber for one thing
<mungojerry> popey: that's true, but he implies inthe previous tweet that he was fed up of infighting
<mungojerry> of recent weeks
<popey> those two things may be unrelated
<popey> i know I've pondered about switching to OSX
<popey> for about a year
<bigcalm> One could say that there is infighting within the computer user world
<ali1234> what i don't understand is this:
<mungojerry> popey: how much time do you spend on OS x?
<ali1234> people say "Linux will never be ready for consumers, I'm switching to X instead." - or in otherwords, "I am a consumer. TROLOLOLO"
<popey> dunno, never timed it
<ali1234> but what these people have completely failed to do is explain how "Linux for consumers" would benefit me in any way.
<mungojerry> linux is better now than it ever has been , in spite of religious wars
<dwatkins> What on earth is "linux for consumers"?
<shauno> so you'll deride them for not understanding that your choice is what works for you; yet completely fail to understand that their choice is what works for them
<ali1234> why am i deriding them?
<mungojerry> shauno: who me? i oroginally raised the issue because i was surprised at linux users who would switch seemingly happily to apple without major ideological issues
<ali1234> i do not deride them, and nor do i attemp to persaude them that linux in fact, is actually what they want
<mungojerry> and i'm no stallman to be sure
<shauno> linux is for consumers.  ubuntu especially so.  for me, turning problem-solving into "file a bug" meant 'the system' was no better than apple radar.
<popey> mungojerry: i probably spend an hour or two a day on osx
<popey> mungojerry: 8 hours a day on windows
<ali1234> yet i still constantly hear from trolls about how "linux will never be ready for the desktop and you're an idiot for using it" or "if you don't help us to make the most easiest to use linux distro evar, you're a horrible greedy person for not sharing."
<dwatkins> ali1234: I hear that too, one person in particular points-out that everything that's associated with Linux is only ever going to be "beta software"
<ali1234> yup. what happens is that someone says "linux sux, i'm getting a mac"
 * directhex is e-famous!
<mungojerry> dwatkins: except that i use ubuntu 12 hrs a day at home and work and my productivity is huge when compared with previous jobs using windows
<ali1234> and then a group of people comes out of the woodwork and points to this and says "see, linux sux! you guys need to make it more easier to use, or no one will use it."
<shauno> last time I paid any real attention to the community, it was rife with windows-bashing, which was usually shushed away with a !factoid that now escapes me
<ali1234> but this is roughly equivalent to a guy realising that screwdrivers do not make good hammers, and getting a hammer instead, and then all the screwdriver salesmen saying "we need to make our screwdrivers more like hammers" while the engineers look at them and roll their eyes
<dwatkins> mungojerry: I used to find that my productivity was much higher with linux, but now I work in a job where there's a lot of MS Office integration, so I'm not sure that would be the case here.
<shauno> so I'm curious, has the community done an about-turn on whether *-bashing is productive? or why does the apple-bashing get a free ride
<mungojerry> depends whether it's bashing for technical or ideological reasons :P
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CohQXD00Vs
<directhex> shauno, it's nice to poke fanboys. and there are no fanboys like apple fanboys
<directhex> shauno, whereas nobody's an MS fanboy, merely more tollerant of it than the average
<mungojerry> a lot of apple fanboys i know irl are like ex-smokers
<mungojerry> suddenly they are steve jobs biggest evangelist , and then buy i-everything
<gord> apple have a lot of integration, if you use apple products - other apple products tend to work best with what you already have
<mungojerry> integration or lock-in?
<gord> lock-in is what people who have an agenda might call it
<ali1234> integration
<ali1234> integration is when your ipod works with your mac
<ali1234> lock-in is when your zune won't work with your mac
<dwatkins> I have an Eee 901 and a Macbook Pro, the Macbook Pro has never had any hardware stop working with a software update, whereas the Eee tends to lose wifi or sound when Ubuntu gets updated.
 * popey notes the use of "fanboy" invalidates much of mungojerry's argument
<ali1234> i have an acer which is exactly the same chipset and the eee and i have never had a problem with it except with the wifi card, which i now believe is actually physically broken
<ali1234> since i got an identical card and it works fine
<directhex> ali1234, zunes work with macs now :p
<gord> zunes still exist?
<ali1234> directhex: it was just an example, i don't know what works with zune or ipod or whatnot, i would not buy any such branded player ever
<directhex> gord, windows phone 7 uses zune protocol
<ali1234> i will only ever buy the unbranded chinese stuff, you know, the stuff that works with anything and costs 10% of what the branded stuff costs
<directhex> fsvo "works"
<dwatkins>  like an eyepad?
<gord> the whole mac integration aspect works both ways as well, for example i choose not to buy apple products because i'm not confident it will work with my setup
<ali1234> it's pretty ironic when i trust unbranded chinese junk over large american companies like apple and microsoft
<directhex> nothing like a sunny plaastation to take your mind off things
<mungojerry> ali1234: are you actually joking?
<ali1234> no, i am completely 100% serious
<popey> Popstation!
<mungojerry> you should try the korean stuff, .. cowon and iriver tend to be excellent quality
<popey> i loved my iriver
<gord> *shudder* popstation
<directhex> ali1234, korean brands - iriver and cowon, for example - tend to work with everything, but are significanly less shitty than chinese equivalents. they even have working websites and firmware updates!
<ali1234> wow
<popey> i still use my iriver nearly daily
<popey> about 4 years later
<directhex> wifey currently has a cowon
<mungojerry> my iriver got nicked in a burglary..the insurance company wanted me to replace with an ipod, but i got a cowon iaudio instead
<mungojerry> i've never knowingly charged my cowon
<directhex> iriver these days have MUCH better UX. but both are reasonable
<mungojerry> battery life is 30 or 60 hours i dunno. occasionally i plug in to copy podcasts etc but only for 10-15 minutes...it's a miracle that i never run out of battery
<popey> however I do enjoy the podcasting bit of ipad/iphone/itunes
<mungojerry> gpodder ftw
<popey> i like that i can listen on one device, and carry on elsewhere
<popey> and it knows where I got to
<shauno> that always catches me off-guard
<xapel> is it possible to open mpp files with Gnome planner?
<gord> music still pretty much sucks on android, annoys me. all the different music players seem to use the same api's or something, thus have the same features. which mean that none of them can figure out the difference between my podcasts and music =\
<mungojerry> gord: tbh i never use my android for music because of battery life
<gord> i get waaaay too much battery life on my android phone these days, so i'm always looking for more ways to use it!
<ali1234> well, that's because they do all use the same API...
<ali1234> because apparently ODMs want to differentiate through the "user experience" - which in effect means slap a new skin on the same old rubbish
<ali1234> this is another reason i quite windows years ago
<ali1234> once they started bundling media player and all the players started to use it... well, you were guaranteed that your file won't play in any of them, because they all use the same set of codecs
<ali1234> now this pox has been brought to linux with the help of gstreamer
<directhex> ali1234, how many times should devs be expected to write a wavpack codec?
<ali1234> directhex: as many times as it takes for them to write one that actually works?
<ali1234> but the real issue here is not code reuse but the way it is handled
<shauno> I just don't find apple & ubuntu that different anymore.  lp/radar are both a black hole of !care, you're a heretic if you question direction, etc.
<shauno> bug 203649 was funny.  "is this still a problem?".  no, because we decided ubuntu wasn't up to the task a year ago, while the bug sat as 'new' for 10 months
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 203649 in xen "xen's xm create fails at losetup stage" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/203649
<ali1234> write that on the bug report
<ali1234> i would :)
<ali1234> at least that way it can be closed lol
<shauno> wasn't my bug; no idea what the OP ended up doing
<shauno> just that our instance was out in the field on rhel by then
<ali1234> i actually enjoy a bit of bug-ping-pong
<ali1234> if i don't hear anything in a while i just start rambling in the comments :)
<shauno> I just completely forgot about it until I got that update a year later.  the box was in missouri by then
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> same happens to me quite often
<shauno> I think it's in paris atm.  I'm pretty proud of that one's legs :)
<ali1234> i wish launchpad itself worked properly in firefox
<ali1234> i mean they managed to fix slashdot
<ali1234> can't imagine a more horrible fate than debugging slashcode
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: debugging procmail
<directhex> debugging sendmail
<ali1234> lol, neither of those are even written in perl, therefore your arguments are invalid
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: apt-get source procmail.. it's WORSE than perl
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: and I write Perl for a living ;)
<s-fox> Goodbye.
<szymon_g> hi
<PalaPad> Hey
<AlanBell> evening all
<PalaPad> Evening
<Myrtti> well, trying out natty for about half an hour kinda solidified that I'll keep my fingers out of Ubuntu :-( xubuntu ftw
<MartijnVdS> yeah I've been considering that
<MartijnVdS> classic  gnome isn't too bad atm though
<Myrtti> I've not used Ubuntu for years apart from on my sisters computer
<PalaPad__> Sorry for disconnects am on the train
<MartijnVdS> PalaPad: screen + irssi ftw
<PalaPad> Yeah cept I am on my iPad and don't have an ssh client
<czajkowski>  and /ignore joins/parts/quits
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: yeah I do that as well
<PalaPad> Although I bet there is an ssh client out there somewhere, I will check when I get to my hotel
<Azelphur> I'm trying to think of what superstructure to build on minecraft
<Azelphur> I have like 10,000 cobblestone XD
<MartijnVdS> a huge tower, 1 block wide
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: that's epic pointless :D
<PalaPad> I might have to check out mine craft seems very popular
<daubers> Azelphur: A giant top ha
<daubers> t
<daubers> Or an elephant
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Like the rest of Minecraft? ;)
<Azelphur> argh, I'm getting tonnes of packet loss
<Azelphur> 216.66.32.54 (hurricane electric) is dropping like 80% for me
<Azelphur> o.O
<MartijnVdS> hmm
<MartijnVdS> I was having ipv6 problems with bytemark earlier
<MartijnVdS> HE does v6 tunnels
<MartijnVdS> something going on on the v6 net?
<Azelphur> yea
<Azelphur> god knows why my ipv4 route to a datacenter goes through he though
<dogmatic69_> anyone know why tab auto complete is would not work on my server?
<daubers> ahhhhh tea
<Azelphur> anyone else care to run mtr azelphur.com and see if you are getting large amounts of packet loss on one of the jumps?
<AlanBell> nope, no loss from here
<daubers> Azelphur: I get some
<Azelphur> it just hates me personally then :(
<Azelphur> daubers: from 216.66.32.54?
<daubers> Azelphur:
<daubers> Azelphur: 10gigabitethernet7-4.core1.nyc4.he.net <- There
<Azelphur> yea, mines lost inside he as well
<Azelphur> irritating
<directhex> the net is screwy tonight
<directhex> LINX is down
<Azelphur> fun
<ali1234> yup, getting loss on linx from here
<shauno> wonder if that's why I keep dropping off
<shauno> (noticed I wasn't the only one on bitfolk to do so)
<MartijnVdS> directhex: ah.. so I wasn't seeing things when v6 went down earlier :)
<Paladine> hehe ssh'd into my irssi session :)
<Paladine> from my ipad
<MartijnVdS> yay
<HazRPG> hi ho
<AlanBell> hi ho
<HazRPG> how's everyone doing this evening
<HazRPG> AlanBell: \o
<bigcalm> Waking a hibernating ubuntu laptop takes forever :(
<jpds> boot speed is faster.
<oly> just wondering anyone using unity notice how annoying the interface is on duel screens, or has some one found a way to enable the bar on both desktops ?
<oly> the current bar does not seem to distinguish between the focused apps so you have no way of telling what it belongs to
<dogmatic69_> bigcalm: i cant run updates after sleep/hibernate
<dogmatic69_> completely messes up
<daubers> I so want one of these! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNN4Oo0KhZo&feature=player_embedded
<shauno> heh, I like it .. "where did you come up with the idea?  err .. pub"
<daubers> Seriously, if I'm evil this year, do you think Santa will get me one?
<HazRPG> haha pub indeed! :P
<HazRPG> all good ideas begin and end in the pub ;)
<AlanBell> any more people want to influence the date of the quiz?
<AlanBell> http://doodle.com/eucwzx2qdiiiqs5p <- closing that tomorrow
<AlanBell> Saturday 16th April is looking good so far
<dogmatic69_> anyone know if i can diff a local file with a remote one?
<bigcalm> Pipe cat over ssh and diff?
<dogmatic69_> does pipe work backwards?
<dogmatic69_> like last step first
 * dogmatic69_ 's mind explodes
<Daviey> dogmatic69, http://pb.daviey.com/V5JB/raw/ ?
<dogmatic69_> he, you make it look easy :)
<dogmatic69_> thanks, trying it now
<Daviey> dogmatic69, TBH, the cat isn't even needed...
<Daviey> ssh 10.0.0.3 diff - remote.txt < local.txt
<dogmatic69_> looks like its hanging..
<dogmatic69_> cat ssh bumblebee .bashrc spits out the file fine... doing the diff is just sitting there
<dogmatic69_> ssh bumblebee diff - .bashrc < .bashrc
<dogmatic69_> oh, it worked... just took ages
<ali1234> i would run diff locally, it would be faster
<dogmatic69_> it worked now, but does not help me :/
<ali1234> ssh 10.0.0.1 cat remote.txt | diff local.txt -
<ali1234> something like that anyway
<dogmatic69_> ssh bumblebee diff - .bashrc < .bashrc works
<ali1234> yeah
<dogmatic69_> trying to figure out why tab complete does not work
<ali1234> but it runs diff on the remote so you transfer local to the remote, and then transfer the diff back again
<dogmatic69_> works for the first param, not after that
<dogmatic69_> figured out this much so far, apt-<tab> gives a list of possible options, sudo apt-<tab> does nothing
<ali1234> yeah sudo used to do that on old ubuntu versions
<ali1234> was annoying
<ali1234> i dunno how they fixed it
<dogmatic69_> it works on another server with the same version
<dogmatic69_> i think i botched something
<dogmatic69_> been like this for ages, just sick of it now
<daubers> dogmatic69_: checked your global bashrc?
<dogmatic69_> works local, works on aws, does not work on slicehost
<dogmatic69_> daubers: global?
<daubers> dogmatic69_: /etc/bashrc
<daubers> also worth check /etc/bash_completion and the file in /etc/bash_completion.d/
<dogmatic69_> daubers: server does not have /etc/bash_completion
<dogmatic69_> :)
<dogmatic69_> that could be it
<dogmatic69_> daubers: almost
<daubers> dogmatic69_: Works for some and not for others?
<dogmatic69_> i can now do sudo apt-<tab> but then adding ins<tab> does nothing
<dogmatic69_> ye
<daubers> You might need to resource the bash conf, I'd just log out/in again
<daubers> I really need to decomission my nslu2's
<daubers> getting far too slow :(
<dogmatic69_> closing ssh connection ~= loging in/out right?
<daubers> dogmatic69_: Yup
<dogmatic69_> daubers: well now i can do sudo apt-<tab>
<dogmatic69_> but the ins<tab> for install still not working
<daubers> dogmatic69_: checked in the bash
<dogmatic69_> also like apt-get install php5-<tab> does nothing
<daubers> checked in the bas_completion.d folder for the apt-get file?
<dogmatic69_> i did a diff of server vs local and they are the same
<dogmatic69_> maybe i should just copy paste bash_completion.d/ to the server?
<daubers> Ummm... I have no idea what impact that may have
<dogmatic69_> server:
<dogmatic69_>  /etc/bash_completion.d$ ls  -> axi-cache  debconf  git  initramfs-tools  insserv
<dogmatic69_> local has +- 50
<dogmatic69_> looks like it has not been adding/installing these things the whole time
<dogmatic69_> i see, just adding them might show commands in <tab> that are not actually installed?
<Darael> That seems entirely plausible, yes.
<dogmatic69_> :/
<dogmatic69_> so why would this silly thing not be adding them along the way
<dogmatic69_> ive never disabled something
<dogmatic69_> maybe the image slicehost uses for the install is wonky / trimmed down
 * daubers heads to bed
<dogmatic69_> daubers: tx for the help
<robin273>  i need help with installing stuff, i get this when i try to sudo apt-get install anything: http://mibpaste.com/Nm2bW1
<Azelphur> robin273: you should pastebin the contents of /tmp/alsa-driver-linuxant.3610.log too
<robin273> All that's in there is this:
<robin273> make: *** No rule to make target `mrextraproper'.  Stop.
<HazRPG> hmm, I just found an interesting site
<HazRPG> www.ponoko.com
<HazRPG> apparently they'll make things out of designs you have
<HazRPG> seems pretty cheap too
<robin273> ?4\
<robin273> woops
<dogmatic69_> HazRPG: they just got something like this http://www.makerbot.com/
<ali1234> robin273: that package alsa-driver-linuxant failed to install properly, now it tries to rerun the postinst script any time you install anything
<dogmatic69_> they even using arduino
<ali1234> robin273: suggest purging it and reinstalling
<ali1234> for rapid prototyping: emachineshop.com
<HazRPG> dogmatic69_: nice!
<robin273> Might anyone be able to help me with my problem?
<dogmatic69_> HazRPG: you into a bit of hardware hacking?
<HazRPG> yeah
 * dogmatic69_ plays with arduino when time allows
<HazRPG> I've never done it before, because I always thought it would be too costly to make boards and cases
<dogmatic69_> ye
<dogmatic69_> that makerbot(arduino) thing has changed the playing field
<HazRPG> but seems if you know the right companies, it doesn't have to be as costly
<ali1234> there is a trick for making circuit boards
<HazRPG> ali1234: etching your own?
<ali1234> you just need a laser printer and some inkjet photo paper
<dogmatic69_> HazRPG: im planning to build a nice 60w co2 laser
<ali1234> and the etching stuff
<ali1234> it doesn't work very well but it's passable for simple stuff
<HazRPG> ali1234: yeah, I was recently looking into that
<ali1234> for a case, you just go maplins and buy a project box :)
<dogmatic69_> eh, maplins likes my bank card to much...
<HazRPG> ali1234: maplins also sell polymorph (I think that's what its called) - where you can essentially mould your own case
<HazRPG> dogmatic69_: co2 laser?
<HazRPG> its a laser that can cut through air?
<dogmatic69_> HazRPG: http://www.butlersheetmetal.com/tinbasherblog/diy-co2-laser-cutter-for-sheet-metal_645.html
<dogmatic69_> something like that
<ali1234> 3d printers aren't really much use except for printing out a mini statue of your wow character
<HazRPG> dogmatic69_: nice
<HazRPG> its basically a CNC machine :P
<dogmatic69_> HazRPG: you get laser diodes which are pretty much powerful LED's, pop balloons etc... CO2 cuts stuff, 60w will do pretty much most things
<dogmatic69_> yip
<dogmatic69_> got a bunch of arduino code, just making space for a lathe/milling machine and then it starts
<ali1234> you can cut plastic or make a laser projector with the laser from a cd writer
<ali1234> i actually once saw a cd writer that "crashed" while writing a disc... it burned a hole right through the cd
<dogmatic69_> :O
<HazRPG> woah no way
<HazRPG> I never realised they were that powerful
<ali1234> well it took a while
<dogmatic69_> HazRPG: will cost about 1500 -> 2000 quid to build
<dogmatic69_> http://hpclaser.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=11
<HazRPG> I thought they could only cut into thin sheets of metal (or whatever the film is that's inside CD's)
<ali1234> when the disc is spinning, that's true
<HazRPG> dogmatic69_: I can imagine
<ali1234> when it stops spinning, it's going to just keep burning the same spot
<dogmatic69_> HazRPG: the fun bit is the 30vka it runs on ;)
<dogmatic69_> *30kva
<ali1234> i guess the main drive motor burned out but the rest kept going, or something
<robin273> ali1234: I think I missed what you said if you responded to my problem, could you repeat what you said?
 * PalaPad is in Oxford
<ali1234> robin273: purge that alsa package and reinstall it
<PalaPad> 3G reception in this part of the world is tragically bad
<zleap> PalaPad, where are you ?
<PalaPad> Oxford
<robin273> ali1234: I get that error while purging it, lol.
<zleap> ah
<zleap> i would have thought it was good there, given its a university area
<PalaPad> In a tiny 16th century hotel
<Seeker`> ouch, blast heard at #2 reactor in japan
<robin273> ali1234, ?
<ali1234> robin273: well you need to clean it out of the system somehow
<PalaPad> Crap 9.30 start tomorrow
<robin273> ali1234: And how would I do that? I'm sort of new to this, sorry.
<PalaPad> Seeker`: Doesn't mean anything bad has happened, they have been venting the gas into their own buildings to give it time to lower radiation
<PalaPad> Which is why they have had explosions
<PalaPad> None of the explosions have been anywhere near the reactors
<Seeker`> PalaPad: yeah, but they reckon this one might have been within a containment vessel
<dogmatic69_> \o/
<Seeker`> As some of their sensors which were reading 3atm are now reading 1 atm
<dogmatic69_> server fault... sudo apt-get install bash-autocomplete
<Azelphur> robin273: I think you need a packaging person
<Azelphur> ali1234: who does packaging in here?
<dogmatic69_> almost working
<HazRPG> I don't know why, but whenever I come to think of a hardware hack... I can never think of something, but when I'm not thinking I have great ideas but easily forget them :/
<Seeker`> HazRPG: use some paper to write them down :P
<Seeker`> Or hack some hardware to record them :P
<dogmatic69_> HazRPG: i just want to hack/build everything
<HazRPG> Seeker`: I usually have the ideas when I'm no where near paper - e.g. out socialising, etc
<PalaPad> Well I better go for a smoke and then think about bed, busy day tomorrow so I at least have to think about bed even if the process goes no further
<HazRPG> dogmatic69_: know the feeling :P
<dogmatic69_> HazRPG: i want to build the perfect complement to the makerbot... the 3d scanner...
 * hamitron uses paper
<directhex> dogmatic69: it's called a kinect!
<dogmatic69_> doubt that is good enough
<HazRPG> most I've ever made though, was a burglar alarm when I was a kid... and some analogue sounds with a speaker
<PalaPad> Man this bed is impossibly soft
<dogmatic69_> HazRPG: i made an ohm meter the other day
<dogmatic69_> https://github.com/dogmatic69/arduino-ohm-meter/blob/master/ohm_meter.pde
<Seeker`> I made a digital clock with an arduino the other day :D
<dogmatic69_> nice
<dogmatic69_> why are none of you in #arduino?
<HazRPG> dogmatic69_: nice! What parts did you use?
<dogmatic69_> #arduino ?
<dogmatic69_> HazRPG: a few resistors
<dogmatic69_> :)
<dogmatic69_> pull down, pull up and an lcd for output
<HazRPG> dogmatic69_: because I don't own an arduino :P
<Seeker`> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0rH1vLddug
<dogmatic69_> HazRPG: its more general hardware hacking there tbh
<PalaPad> This is evil, event organisers who schedule debates at 9.30am need shooting
<HazRPG> dogmatic69_: Hmm, interesting
<dogmatic69_> every time ive asked something ive had to later add it was arduino :D
<PalaPad> No-one can have a good debate so early in the morning
<dogmatic69_> Seeker`: that is yours?
<HazRPG> PalaPad: its still night time dude :P
<Seeker`> dogmatic69_: yus
<HazRPG> Seeker`: that's pretty impressive dude :)
<dogmatic69_> Seeker`: dont be cheap, buy another 2 digits :D
<Seeker`> :D
<dogmatic69_> looks awesome
<Seeker`> Its done with break out boards from Sparkfun
<dogmatic69_> nice
<HazRPG> dogmatic69_: hmm, why have you got an underscore in your name lol?
<HazRPG> I keep hitting tab and almost typing it to the one without the underscore
<dogmatic69_> forgot work irc running
<HazRPG> lol
 * HazRPG needs to learn this lingo
<HazRPG> breakout boards?
<dogmatic69_> breakout board ~= plugin
<HazRPG> guessing its boards that are separated to do their own tasks
<dogmatic69_> yip
<dogmatic69_> like you get a gps break out
<dogmatic69_> will have like 6 pins and just works
<HazRPG> yeah I was looking at some on another site (which is where I got the assumption from
<dogmatic69_> you get breakouts for everything
<dogmatic69_> i buy a bunch of things from coolcomponents
<HazRPG> Seeker`: so what breakouts did you use for yours? was it for the LEDs?
<dogmatic69_> they pretty good
<Seeker`> HazRPG: the 4x7-seg and the RTC
<dogmatic69_> you can see the board under the led's
<HazRPG> Seeker`: real-time clock?
<HazRPG> just a guess
<Seeker`> yes
<HazRPG> hmm, is the RTC required for keeping track of time?
<HazRPG> since I recall brobostigon having trouble with a project he was doing a while back that included time
<Seeker`> it is a battery-powered IC which keeps track of the time/date
<Seeker`> so even when the arduino isn't powered, it runs off a button battery so that it doesn't lose the time
<HazRPG> the code for the arduino looked fine, however it wasn't syncing the time - or even ticking over...
<Seeker`> no idea
<Seeker`> I just know that mine works :)
<HazRPG> :P
<ali1234> sounds like forgot to enable interrupts
<HazRPG> dogmatic69_: I'm guessing you use your ohm meter for testing how much ohm's a resister has?
<dogmatic69_> HazRPG: exactly
<dogmatic69_> its better than a meter as it auto changes resolution and its easier to use
<HazRPG> ali1234: hmm, might be worth talking to him about it because if I recall he's using a GPS device at the moment for keeping the time, but I don't think that's his aim - it was just a little hack he made up to do the same trick
<dogmatic69_> can check loads of them together
<dogmatic69_> and im busy with a memory function, so it keeps the last reading on screen
<HazRPG> resolution?
<HazRPG> you mean the on-screen LED you have for it?
<HazRPG> LCD&
<HazRPG> *
<ali1234> GPS for timekeeping kind of sucks
<ali1234> i have an alarm clock that does it, it is constantly 15 minutes slow
<HazRPG> ouch lol
<ali1234> because the GPS clock has an adjustment field in the ephemeris data, and the clock doesn't look at it
<ali1234> so when it was new it was accurate
<HazRPG> guessing an arduino is a good board to have then?
<HazRPG> seems most of you guys have it :P
<ali1234> but since then the adjustment changed by 15 minutes
<ali1234> and the worst part is you can't fix it
<ali1234> because if you adjust the clock manually, it gradually syncs back to GPS time
<HazRPG> heh
<HazRPG> typical
<ali1234> also, arduino kind of sucks
<ali1234> it can only do serial over usb
<ali1234> better to get something that has a real usb stack
<Seeker`> meh, its good for small projects
<dogmatic69_> HazRPG: resolution, like if its 10 ohm it shows 10 ohm, and 1,000,000 it shows 1M ohm
<ali1234> you're better off with a ez-usb or a generic avr board with software usb stack
<HazRPG> dogmatic69_: ah, I'm with you :)
<dogmatic69_> HazRPG: on a meter (cheap ones) you have to select the range or it dont work
<dogmatic69_> HazRPG: also got a mostly working capacitance meter
<ali1234> eg: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Cypress-CY7C68013A-128-EZ-USB-FX2LP-Developement-Board-/270716796226?pt=BI_Electrical_Equipment_Tools&hash=item3f07fa7d42
<dogmatic69_> works out how many farad a cap is
<dogmatic69_> next up will be a diode tester
<dogmatic69_> then add it all together for a test bench :)
<zleap> anyone up in the bristol area ?:
<HazRPG> ali1234: interesting
<HazRPG> ali1234: that the sort of thing you use?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> or this: http://robotfuzz.com/OSIF
<ali1234> or even better, just build your own
<ali1234> http://robotfuzz.com/files/OSIF/OSIF-sch.png
<ali1234> (you can ignore all the stuff about external power, it runs from USB if there's no serious load)
<HazRPG> see now your just confusing me xD
<ali1234> ignore the +9v stuff
<HazRPG> not really done a lot of hardware stuff before, but I've always been keen to get into it
<ali1234> you can also ignore the LEDs
<ali1234> all you need is the xtal and the usb connector
<HazRPG> is that on the schematics png?
#ubuntu-uk 2011-03-15
<ali1234> ...yeah
<ali1234> the schematic is more confusing than it needs to be
<dogmatic69_> HazRPG: arduino http://tinkerlog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/clone02_l.png
<dogmatic69_> you can also hack your own one, http://tinkerlog.com/2008/01/07/arduino-on-a-prototype-board/
<ali1234> (note lack of usb port lol)
<ali1234> all these boards are basically the same though
<ali1234> and the reason for that is the AVR chip is pretty much a whole computer in one chip
<ali1234> you don't need anything else
<dogmatic69_> its main function is the a->d and pwm
<ali1234> all the "clever" stuff about arduino is done in the firmware and the IDE
<Seeker`> What chip do pirates use for hobby electronics?
<dogmatic69_> it is a little computer, a 4hz computer :D
<ali1234> actually 4-24mhz
<Seeker`> A V Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
<dogmatic69_> lmao
<HazRPG> lol
<ali1234> avr is the chip in most modchips too
<ali1234> well, the old ones at least
<dogmatic69_> they are good chips
<ali1234> i dunno what they use thesedays
<dogmatic69_> i hear push through is dead though
<dogmatic69_> all smt chips soon
<HazRPG> hmm, so best starting point for a newbie like me?
<ali1234> you mean through hole?
 * HazRPG having looked at everything and thinking they all look very similar
<ali1234> avr is available in both package types
<Seeker`> arduino is just plug-in and program
<ali1234> the trouble with arduino is it's all lock-in
<Seeker`> "lock-in"?
<ali1234> they have their own programming language, their own communication protocol, their own bootloader method
<ali1234> sure, most of it is open source
<ali1234> but it just gets in the way
<Seeker`> it depends what you want out of it
<Seeker`> if you want to play with microcontrollers and basic electronics, they are all good
<HazRPG> well I guess since I haven't done much, just getting to grips with it all for starters
<HazRPG> however I would like to move on to making something similar to a HardSID
<HazRPG> or even a CF reader for my C64
<dogmatic69_> ali1234: obviously you not used it much, arduino runs c++
<ali1234> C++ on a microcontroller ...
<dogmatic69_> compiled..
<HazRPG> I was going to say, I thought arduino used c++
<ali1234> it's not "real" C++
<dogmatic69_> why?
<ali1234> it's their cut down version of it
<dogmatic69_> you can import anything you like
<dogmatic69_> just have 32k to work with
<ali1234> the full C++ stdlib is about 100000 times too big to fit on an avr flash memory
<dogmatic69_> exactly
<ali1234> not to mention that 90% of it is useless for microcontroller programming
<dogmatic69_> and you dont like it because they excluded that stuff?
<ali1234> i don't like it because C++ is a bad tool for the job in the first place
<dogmatic69_> java... :D
<hamitron> :-o
<HazRPG> ali1234: what is it that cypress uses?
<ali1234> java on microcontrollers is slightly more sensible as long as you choose one that has hardware support for java
<dogmatic69_> ali1234: you want assembler?
<dogmatic69_> you can run just about anything that can compile on them
<ali1234> HazRPG: all microcontrollers use machine code, it's up to you to choose whatever compiler you want to use (unless you have an arduino, then you are pretty much stuck with their compiler - lock-in)
<dogmatic69_> ali1234: that is only if you use their boot loader, you can use another/your own etc
<ali1234> sure. and then you have a generic AVR development board...
<dogmatic69_> ye
<ali1234> because the arduino hardware is not special in any way
<hamitron> which is more fun ;)
<dogmatic69_> its not
<dogmatic69_> but its easy for noobs like me and HazRPG :D
<dogmatic69_> its like runing ubuntu vs compiling linux kernals from source
<ali1234> not really
<hamitron> it is like comparing ubuntu with slackware ;)
<ali1234> it's more like learning to driver in an automatic car
<ali1234> when you want to drive a manual, you have tolearn all over again
<dogmatic69_> its can still do most the other things, with some bloat to do the boring stuff
<ali1234> should have just learned in a manual in the first palce
<Seeker`> ali1234: yeah, but you'll have a knowledge of the electronics that fit round it
<hamitron> \o/
<hamitron> scrap all this programming and just use electronics
<hamitron> ;)
<dogmatic69_> ali1234: that is the same as saying if you want to learn how to drive a manual, you have to build the engine first
<ali1234> believe it or not, you can learn the electronics without any fancy microcontrollers
<dogmatic69_> its just a bunch of switches
<HazRPG> pretty much :P
<ali1234> not to mention that the electronics part is almost completely unrelated to programming a mcu
<hamitron> I made a fuel and pit stop simulator for scalextric, using none programable stuff
<Seeker`> ali1234: If you want to play with mcs, you need some electroics roundit. Something like arduino allows you to actually build something quickly and easily
<Seeker`> its more than enough for beginners projects
<dogmatic69_> and you can do the analogue to digital with resistors
<ali1234> er...
<hamitron> how? ;)
<hamitron> arduino is the way to learn imo, but it is important to not get lazy and miss basic electronic stuff
<hamitron> if you want to learn electronics anyway
<hamitron> using flip-flops is something you should not miss
<hamitron> ;)
<PalaPad> http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2007/12/aristotle200712. < this is the guy I debating with tomorrow
<PalaPad> Should be fun
<hamitron> just look at him and say "who the fk are you?" ;)
<ali1234> "u mad?"
<PalaPad> Lol that is gonna go down well at Oxford Uni lol
<hamitron> guess Hull Uni was different kinda class...
<hamitron> ;)
<PalaPad> lol
<PalaPad> Wish I had thought to data mine a profile about him for the debate
<hamitron> oh btw guys
<PalaPad> Would have been funny to expose his life to the room
<hamitron> I figured out the problem with my 3rd comp
<hamitron> vibrations from my bass drum kept causing the gfx card to lose connection
<PalaPad> lol
<hamitron> didn't really think about it much before
<hamitron> but it always had problems when I was shaking everything
<HazRPG> hamitron: huh?
<HazRPG> you just sit with a bass drum running all day long?
<hamitron> it used to just restart on me
<hamitron> no, only when I am drumming
<hamitron> but I also have a habbit of tapping my foot to music near my comp too
<HazRPG> hmm, if the arduino doesn't have a proper USB stack... does that mean I couldn't use it as a standalone USB device?
<ali1234> correct
<ali1234> unless that USB device happens to be one that works like a serial port
<ali1234> so you can't use it to make a midi device, keyboard or other HID, usb storage, or anything else that works on usb...
<HazRPG> well that's just pants!
<hamitron> couldn't you program the outputs/inputs?
<HazRPG> I'm guessing you could add a usb stack board to the arduino... surely...
<ali1234> no, it doesn't have the right crystal for software USB
<ali1234> yeah you could add an external USB chip...
<ali1234> but that will cost more than the arduino board
<ali1234> and be extremely difficult to work with
<hamitron> ali1234: you know anything off the shelf I could use as a base for a phone type device?
<hamitron> 300mhz or greater cpu
<ali1234> "phone type"?
<HazRPG> ali1234: does the cypress come with decent documentation?
<ali1234> HazRPG: if you like reading TRMs...
<hamitron> yeh, gsm, gps, display
<ali1234> hamitron: an N900...
<hamitron> that is boring
<hamitron> :/
<HazRPG> ali1234: I'm guessing I don't, since I haven't a clue what that is :P
<hamitron> don't mind it been slightly larger, and modular
<ali1234> hamitron: you get either a phone, or a phone dev board that costs 10x as much and is as big as a PC motherboard
<hamitron> dev board would mean single for many years
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> there is/was some open phone project
<hamitron> but felt like loads of broken links
<HazRPG> hamitron: what is it your trying to do? Build your own mobile?
<hamitron> sort of
<hamitron> I don't want a phone as such
<hamitron> but it would be nice to be portable
<ali1234> there is a severe lack of good quality open source mobile phone UIs anyway
<ali1234> if you want to make phone calls with open source software android is basically your only choice at this time
<ali1234> everything else is either half finished or complete vapourware
<hamitron> the gsm chips look interesting
<HazRPG> doesn't it have something to do with the fact that its not easy to make a GSM compliant chip at home? Or would I be badly mistaken for thinking that
<hamitron> the GSM chip I looked at was 60 quid
<ali1234> "completely impossible" would be closer to the truth
<hamitron> and that is before I consider anything else to make it usable
<hamitron> maybe a display off a PSP ;)
<HazRPG> hamitron: you could just rip one out of an old phone?
<HazRPG> hamitron: I've not thrown away a single phone I've ever had...
<hamitron> I still use my ngage :(
<HazRPG> hamitron: I still own an ngage :P
<ali1234> siiiiiiiide talkin
<hamitron> qd is a brick atm
<hamitron> :(
<hamitron> really need to try flashing it sometime
<HazRPG> ali1234: I found it more comfortable to use the ngage then most phones
<hamitron> qd is better
<HazRPG> the only annoying thing was if you wanted to use your two hands for anything
<hamitron> qd is the best phone ever....
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> apart from the auto bricking feature
<HazRPG> but the qd was basically a regular phone (in terms of how you held it)
<hamitron> with game controls...
<hamitron> brighter screen
<hamitron> and you didn't have to take the thing apart to change game
<hamitron> ;)
<HazRPG> hamitron: I put all my games into one card :/
<ali1234> lol... games... on removable media...
<ali1234> how quaint
<hamitron> also...
<hamitron> normal ngage is too long
<hamitron> if you wear tight jeans, it can poke you in nasty places
 * HazRPG hates tight jeans
<HazRPG> don't see the point in them
<hamitron> not skin tight
<hamitron> but not baggy
<hamitron> ;/
<HazRPG> oh
<HazRPG> heh, pocket fail then
<HazRPG> I always make sure the pockets are deep - because my wallets are usually huge
<directhex> the ngage was a terrible gaming device. put the rose-tinted glasses away
<HazRPG> plus I like to keep cigs, phone, wallet in my pockets
<hamitron> last thing you need is an ngage giving you a good poking whilst you are trying to race a car whilst on a motorbike
<hamitron> directhex: and? ;)
<hamitron> I liked it as a phone
<hamitron> and it is better than most phones for gaming
<hamitron> you have proper gaming buttons
<HazRPG> hamitron: didn't they take the FM radio out of the QD?
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> yes
<HazRPG> hamitron: something I use to use a lot
<hamitron> i take mp3
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> hamitron: that'll be the other reason I didn't like it then :P
<directhex> hamitron: FSVO "proper"
<hamitron> FSVO?
<directhex> for small versions of
<hamitron> errrr
<hamitron> what you mean? ;)
<directhex> i mean it was a crap game controller
<hamitron> better than a keypad
<hamitron> ;/
<HazRPG> directhex: ... it was a D-Pad, I don't see how that was crap?
<directhex> herpes is better than aids, but that doesn't make it desirable
<hamitron> tbh, there has been no good gaming phone yet
<hamitron> jsut the ngage is the best so far :/
<directhex> HazRPG: entire encyclopardias have been written on the relative merits of different d-pad implementations. entire industries have sprung up around it. the ngage's was crap
<hamitron> the qd has better D-pad
<hamitron> had a seperate select button
<hamitron> :)
<Azelphur> yay I'm saved from my invalid power supply decision :P
<directhex> Azelphur: ?
<Azelphur> my friend has the correct power supply and is selling it to me for Â£5 :D
<Azelphur> and it's a nice antec one too.
<Azelphur> score :p
<directhex> ooh, antec
<hamitron> if sony weren't such cocks, I'd consider their new gaming phone
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> ohhhhhhhhhh
<directhex> i'm not remotely convinced by that either
<hamitron> maybe I should make a mod for psp
<hamitron> add gsm....
<HazRPG> me either... I'm not convinced the "PSPhone" is going to be any good :/
<ali1234> i think you should glue a nokia 3210 to a classic gameboy
<HazRPG> ali1234: +1
<ali1234> you would then have made the best gaming phone ever
<HazRPG> ali1234: sounds like my theory on camera phones
<directhex> honestly? right now, the best gaming phone is the iphone. they haven't badly attempted to glue one form factor into another - instead, developers have been making complete use of the new form factor
<hamitron> ngage was better than gameboy ;/
<ali1234> yup, all cameraphones are terrible
<HazRPG> phone + camera + duct-tape = camera phone winner!
<directhex> hamitron: except for the quality of the games, and the d-pad
<hamitron> I prefer the d-pad on the ngage qd
<hamitron> :/
<directhex> then you have absolutely terrible taste ^_^
<hamitron> quality of games I will give ya
<directhex> there's a reason nintendo fiercely guard their d-pad patents, and have left the design pretty much unchanged since the famicom
<hamitron> but to me, a standard handheld console is useless
<directhex> hamitron: you're a special case though
<hamitron> I want a device as a phone, with some hardcore gaming :)
<hamitron> guess so
<hamitron> also must have an open development platform
<directhex> the thing is, the use-case for home consoles and portable consoles is different, which is why you don't just put console games on portables
<directhex> that's what's killed the PSP
<HazRPG> I hate the whole "cram everything into one device"
<hamitron> me too HazRPG
<HazRPG> because one part always suffers because of a result of another
<directhex> and similarly, the use-case for a handheld console and a mobile phone game is different
<hamitron> HazRPG: I would personally be willing to side talk on a netbook, if it was a netbook with a phone function :)
<hamitron> directhex: yep
<directhex> the ngage was absolutely terrible because a company with no experience with handheld gaming, nokia, attempted to staple a low-quality chinese knock-off of a gameboy colour into a mobile phone. things like the cartridge slot snafu show just how much lack of thought went into the device
<hamitron> guess I don't want a phone with games, I want a handheld toy that functions as a phone
<directhex> hamitron: sounds like n900 territory?
<ali1234> yeah
<hamitron> partly, yes
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> except for that it has a keyboard that is useless for gaming, and a resistive screen that is also useless for gaming
<hamitron> if the PSPhone is running android....
<directhex> the iphone has become a serious gaming platform, as far as publishers are concerned. and that burns me up as a hardcore gamer, because the games going onto it are games for mobile phone users. snake, for the HD era.
<hamitron> it may be an option
<directhex> hamitron: it is
<ali1234> jeff minter is making iphone games now
<ali1234> he just ported llamatron
<directhex> ali1234: good example
<ali1234> it has hardcore mode
<directhex> although jeff's always been a bit weird
<directhex> he backed NUON
 * hamitron wants a d-pad
<hamitron> it HAS to have game controls
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> hamitron: D-Pad for the PC?
<directhex> hamitron: so playstation phone for you, then
<HazRPG> directhex: except sony are a-holes?
<directhex> HazRPG: sony or bust, if you want a d-pad.
<hamitron> if sony hadn't put me off getting a PS3, I would probably not be questioning it
<ali1234> directhex: what do you want as a hardcore gamer?
<HazRPG> directhex: lies, solder + mobile phone + snes controller is all one needs
<hamitron> I wouldn't have an LG tv in here either
<ali1234> i mean what's wrong with llamatron? tempest? etc
<directhex> ali1234: ultimately, the type of game experience i enjoy isn't one offered by minter. and i say that having spent money on space giraffe.
<ali1234> it doesn't get much more hardcore than that stuff imo
<HazRPG> directhex: sure... there would be a wire sticking out of your phone...  but still, small price to pay. If your going to be gaming on the go, you'll be sat down anyways...
<Seeker`> psp2 could be very interesting
<hamitron> psp2 is hardcore, but no phone function :/
<Seeker`> in terms of graphics power at least
<directhex> ali1234: right. but ironically enough, that stuff is also highly casual. it's played in short bursts, it's completely ephemeral. it's more *skilled* than Fruit Ninja, but it appeals to the same sensations
<HazRPG> hamitron: psp2 is the phone PSP dude
<Seeker`> HazRPG: nope
<hamitron> NGP then
<hamitron> ;/
<directhex> HazRPG: negative
<HazRPG> is it not?
<Seeker`> psp2 is the NGP
<hamitron> if it had option to make calls, and cost under 300 quid, it would of been mine
<ali1234> directhex: so... what is it that you do want?
<hamitron> but I am still sulking with sony, so they can wait 10 years before I buy anything from them again
<Seeker`> the NGP isn't meant to be an iphone replacement, its gonna be for gaming
<directhex> ali1234: stories. adventures. experiences that are poorly suited to any mobile platform, really.
<hamitron> Seeker`: a shame it doesn't ahve basic voice calls though
<Azelphur> PWM is the capability for fans to be automatically controlled by the motherboard right?
<Seeker`> hamitron: not really. I've got a phone for that.
<hamitron> Seeker`: I can't carry so many devices!
<Seeker`> Azelphur: context?
<hamitron> lack of pockets  :/
<Azelphur> Seeker`: computer fans
<Azelphur> specifically case ones.
<Seeker`> Azelphur: usually, yes
<ali1234> seems to me that oldschool graphic adventures could work quite well on mobile
<Seeker`> hamitron: get better clothes
<Azelphur> so now that I understand that part, anyone know a reasonably cheap not crap 120mm fan with PWM? :D
<directhex> ali1234: yes. but better with a touchscreen rather than d-pad rubbish. which is why you can get monkey island and broken sword on iphone
<directhex> (and scummvm for android and webos)
<Seeker`> ali1234: define "oldschool"?
<directhex> Seeker`: 90s golden age of graphic adventures
<ali1234> Seeker`: anything made before doom
<hamitron> Seeker`: I like my leathers!
<Seeker`> There isn't much hope of new consoles any time soon, and graphics chips are catching up fast
<directhex> ali1234: or after. let's not ignore full throttle plz.
<hamitron> keys, money, wallet, phone.... all need seperate pockets
<HazRPG> personally, I feel that the whole reason consoles are so popular is the "insert cartridge/disc and play" feature... why doesn't the PC have the same ability (other than the fact that no two hardware is exactly the same)
<Seeker`> nah
<Seeker`> HazRPG: because thats not what PCs are designed for :P
<directhex> HazRPG: because it's hard.
<hamitron> I am surprised the idea of making a game into a live cd hasn't taken off
<hamitron> with a limited hardware list
<directhex> hamitron: bundled with drivers for a billion combinations?
<Seeker`> console games are designed for very specific hardware in very specific conditions
<HazRPG> Seeker`: yeah, but if someone made an "insert game disc" application - it would rock, place in your game and away you go!
<directhex> hamitron: pc gaming is already a niche. gotta maximize your market.
<Seeker`> and they are heavily optimized for that hardware
<ali1234> i remember when PC games were actually different from console games
<ali1234> now they're all the same
<hamitron> directhex: I was thinking of an open source console type thing
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> except the console version works better, and the PC version has mods
<directhex> ali1234: games cost tens of millions to make. how many units need to ship to break even?
<ali1234> some games cost tens of millions
<directhex> ali1234: i don't blame companies for making cross-platform games, to increase the likelihood of profit
<HazRPG> ali1234: I would disagree, UT3 for the PS3 was sooooo much buggier than the PC version
 * hamitron neither
<hamitron> I never did get my UT3 linux client!
<hamitron> :(
<directhex> hamitron: yeah, that's disappointing when it's been ported
<ali1234> the problem is that a lot of cross platform games sit in the ugly middle ground
<directhex> ali1234: it takes a little more time & effort to really work the platforms individually for a cross-platform game. dragon age is a good example, the pc version has completely pc-centric controls instead of being a straight port
<HazRPG> ali1234: how so?
<ali1234> for example, se every cross platform FPS game ever made
<directhex> most don't bother. deadlines, etc
<hamitron> I've lost interest in PC gaming since F1 2010
<hamitron> :/
<directhex> i have every platform. i pick & choose where to get my games
<hamitron> to buy a game and find bugs will be fixed in F1 2011 is annoying
<directhex> generally, i favour PC for first person, console for third person
<HazRPG> hamitron: I fail to see that, my sonic games have never been better on my PC :)
<ali1234> "third person" is now a category of game?
<directhex> ali1234: it's distinct enough in how it "feels"
<directhex> gears of war is not unreal tournament
<HazRPG> hamitron: especially thanks to my bluetooth dongle and my PS3 controller interacting together with QtSixA
<hamitron> HazRPG: I feel ripped off
<ali1234> i remember when not all games were about space marines too
<hamitron> I paid for F1 2010, not to fund the release of F1 2011
<directhex> ali1234: doom was about space marines!
<HazRPG> ali1234: third person always was a genre... expect they called them "adventure/platform" games
<ali1234> yeah
<HazRPG> hamitron: heh I can understand that
<ali1234> directhex: ID software basically "solved" the problem of PC gaming with doom, and 90% of all PC games since are just clones of it
<Seeker`> hamitron: what was wrong with F1 2010?
<directhex> ultimately, i have 27 years of gaming history on my shelves, accumulated over the past 22 years. and i really feel rose-tinted glasses are overrated. modern gaming is brilliant.
<hamitron> Seeker`: a long list of things
<directhex> 2011 is a brilliant year to be a gamer. better than 2010, which was better than 2009, etc
<ali1234> at least doom and quake 1 had a somewhat unique setting, unlike all the following games which just go back to "weird mutant aliens"
<hamitron> most annoying to me is the pit stop issue
<HazRPG> you know, thing I like about ID software is, most of their software gets released as multiplatform (e.g. works on linux), shame more companies don't do the same
<ali1234> or even worse, "red space marine vs blue space marine"
<directhex> the current console generation has given us completely new and fantastic experiences. dead rising? assassin's creed? you could *never* have done those games on the previous generation of kit
<ali1234> assassin's creed is completely boring
<ali1234> it's GTA without cars
<hamitron> no cars! :(
<ali1234> there is the odd horse and carriage, but i don't think you can steal them
<hamitron> shoot the horses?
<directhex> not in AC1
<directhex> AC1 was really a tech demo
<ali1234> well that's the only one i played
<ali1234> i heard 2 was just more of the same
<directhex> AC2 addressed every major criticism against the game
<hamitron> first versions should NOT be a tech demo :/
<Seeker`> hamitron: why not?
<Seeker`> Is'nt that what crysis was?
<directhex> hamitron: less priase for iD then. quake 3 was totally a sales pitch for the engine ;)
<Seeker`> OR Portal
<Seeker`> and Portal was a damn cool game
<ali1234> portal was actually good
<HazRPG> AC to me felt like I was playing Prince of Persia... except in 3D... with extra gimmicks
<hamitron> if you buy a game, it shouldn't be half assed
<ali1234> only about 20% as good as any random zelda game though
<directhex> hamitron: they already did PoP in 3d. with the critically acclaimed Sands of Time
<directhex> the jewel of the last generation
<Seeker`> I've just started playing AC1 this evening, and I quite like it
<directhex> ali1234: zelda as a franchise is tired
<ali1234> it's nowhere near as tired as "space marines in space"
<directhex> perhaps
<directhex> but at least those have been improving and evolving
<Seeker`> anyone played mass effect?
<ali1234> evolving isn't quite how i would describe it
<directhex> i just gave up on twilight princess. it was just bad compared to other zelda-esque games like okami
<Seeker`> playing through that for the first time, and thats good too
<directhex> Seeker`: finished both.
<ali1234> twilight princess was bad, i will give you that
<ali1234> i gave up on it too
<HazRPG> I can sum up most games over the recent years as ... "War! HUH! What is it good for!? Absolutely nothing! Say it again now..."
<ali1234> but windwaker was probably the best of the rest
<shauno> don't think I've played console since n64 :/
<Seeker`> HazRPG: dont play them then
<directhex> let me frame my historic feelings about zelda: http://apebox.org/wordpress/wp-content/gallery/miscellaneous-junk/zelda3.jpg
<HazRPG> directhex: yeah, I didn't like the new PoP's... should have left him as a 2D game
<ali1234> but the problem with TP was that they put in too much of the things that make other games suck these days... like quick time events
<directhex> HazRPG: i loved SoT.
<directhex> ali1234: shenmue has a lot to answer for
<ali1234> also being a wolf sucked
<ali1234> i mean it *really* sucked
<directhex> being a wolf is awesome in okami though. yay okami.
<hamitron> brb
<ali1234> the rest of the game was fine
<HazRPG> Seeker`: I don't! I just can't stand the number of "war, shoot shoot shoot, brain feel numb now... shoot shoot shoot" games
<Seeker`> depends on how good the story is
<shauno> war's never been so much fun
<directhex> war. war never changes
<directhex> YES! HIGH FIVE!
<hamitron> bk
<hamitron> it went quiet
<directhex> HazRPG: i want to care about my protagonist and the world in which they engage. i want stories of fantastic deeds and faraway places. ultimately, i don't much enjoy multiplayer, and i don't like "realistic" war games
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> to me, multiplayer if everything
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> is*
<directhex> because who cares? "terrorists win", big whoop. now what?
<HazRPG> directhex: agreed - thus my name ;)
<ali1234> i quite like properly realistic FPS games... that's about the only type i can play
<ali1234> by properly realistic i mean the type where 1 shot kills you and anything other than camping is suicide
<hamitron> my greatest annoyance is these games you can't lose
<hamitron> like WoW.... if you could loot players you killed, it would be cool :)
<HazRPG> hamitron: you mean the "respawn" factor? Or the "vision blurred = hide and recover HP" factor? (both annoy me)
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> just the risk of losing everything and having to start again
<hamitron> mistakes should cost you
<HazRPG> yeah exactly!
<HazRPG> like in an RPG, where you haven't saved for a while...
<HazRPG> when you die... your dead!
<hamitron> I never save.... unless I am closing the game
<HazRPG> start again
<HazRPG> hamitron: adds more excitement does it ;)
<hamitron> hell yeh
<directhex> hamitron: you'd like steel battalion's hard mode ;)
<HazRPG> shauno: wow really n64 was your last ever console of play?
<directhex> hamitron: if you died, it erased your save
<hamitron> what fun is a racing game, if you are allowed "flashbacks" wheny ou crash?
<ali1234> when i play J-RPGs i always meticulously make individual saves at every point, and then *never* use them
<HazRPG> directhex: rofl!
<hamitron> directhex: :D
<HazRPG> ali1234: ha, I do that :P
<hamitron> that is how I play
<hamitron> :)
<directhex> that game also came with a giant mech controller, the size of three xboxes
<directhex> with 40 odd buttons on it
<hamitron> but the "never losing" ruins MMO
<shauno> HazRPG: just haven't seen anything that grabbed my interesting in quite some time
<shauno> did pick up a gp2x for the emulators tho :)
<HazRPG> shauno: just out of interest, what sort of thing do you like playing?
<hamitron> I suppose the kiddies would not be happy with WoW if when they died, someone stole the cloth off their backs
<HazRPG> shauno: nice!
<directhex> i'm churning through dead space 2 right now, alongside mario galaxy (depending on mood)
<directhex> then will move on to the latest assassin's creed brotherhood DLC.
<HazRPG> hamitron: would be amusing though :P - I mean other MMO's actually do it, why shouldn't WoW?
<hamitron> like eve online? ;)
<directhex> there is a death penalty in WoW
<directhex> not a big one, but it's there
<hamitron> WoW hardcore mode, allowing looting
<HazRPG> you mean the "haha you'll die easier next time"?
<hamitron> Blizard, pay me now
<hamitron> ;)
<HazRPG> aka "Res Sickness"
<hamitron> ohhhh
<shauno> it's mostly the time lost in wow.  durability loss is pretty token now
<HazRPG> that's more of a nuisance than anything, It means people can stay near your corpse/spirit healer and kill you quickly time after time
<ali1234> lol, resurrect you just to kill you again?
<directhex> MMOs make poor RPGs
<shauno> you only get rez sickness if you can't find/reach your corpse.  it's a fringe case most the time
<HazRPG> ali1234: yup... happened to me before, many a times
<directhex> "kill ten wurbleburbles, and bring me back their skulls" is not roleplaying
<hamitron> grinding ;)
<HazRPG> directhex: it has gotten better recently
<hamitron> eve online would be cool, if there were no alts
<directhex> HazRPG: okay, 8 wurbleburbles
<HazRPG> directhex: there's a quest in cata now that you become an NPC on a horse
<ali1234> hamitron: so true
<Seeker`> WoW is good. Shame about all the idiots playing
<hamitron> ali1234: a true RPG
<hamitron> no alt "spying"
<shauno> I don't think wow's bad at all.  I just had to draw a line at what becomes an obligation to play
<hamitron> I liked WoW as a game
<directhex> i think i will go sleep now
<hamitron> I like sleep too
<hamitron> ;)
<Seeker`> I quit this week after another guild turning in to 13 or 14 people that have a clue and 10 idiots going "WHY DON'T YOU RAID WITH ME! ZOMG I AM ENTITLED TO RAIDW ITH YOU!"
<HazRPG> I liked WoW too... until I realised it was just the same thing over and over and over again
<hamitron> the monthly cost put me off mostly
<HazRPG> hamitron: Runes of Magic will suit you, pretty much a WoW clone
<hamitron> Knight Online is too
<hamitron> :)
<shauno> I found the cost the least of the worries.  I mean, 8eur a month .. I smoke that in a day
<HazRPG> shauno: same :P
 * hamitron is "careful" with money
<HazRPG> speaking of smokes, I'm out ... so need to go buy some!
<hamitron> at the time I was a full time student and only Â£15 per week to live off
<shauno> other than smoking, I'm not silly with my money.  but I don't let fear of it own me
<HazRPG> hamitron: y'ouch!
<HazRPG> shauno: same, I try to spend wisely
<hamitron> worked out about Â£10 for food
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> anyways, gonna go on an errand, brb
<hamitron> laters HazRPG
<hamitron> :)
<Seeker`> Â£8/mo is pretty good fot the number of hours of entertainmen
<hamitron> Â£8 is
<Seeker`> 1 trip to the cinema, or as much playtime as you want
<hamitron> but I didn't have the money to spend on it ;/
<hamitron> so i got Guild Wars
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> actually bbl, would probably be a better use of words/characters
<hamitron> now I just feel like quiting all off the shelf stuff
<hamitron> just seeing what I can do with my mind
<shauno> interesting, that paints you as much younger than I'd pictured
<hamitron> you picture me as an old fart?
<hamitron> ;/
<shauno> I'm not sure how old qualifies as fart, but certainly older than the last 10 minutes betray
<hamitron> I'm only 28
 * hamitron looks at some open circuit designs
<hamitron> with a few years tinkering, must be amazing what can be done
<HazRPG> back
<hamitron> ali1234: what would you recommand, like the arduino, but with a faster clock?
 * HazRPG sparks up
<ali1234> how much faster?
<hamitron> say 300mhz+
<ali1234> a beagleboard
<HazRPG> heh I was going to say ARM
<HazRPG> seems that's what a beagleboard has in it
<ali1234> or a spartan3 and implement whateverit is that needs 300mhz in hardware
<hamitron> any x86 cpu boards?
<ali1234> yeah but you don't want them
<hamitron> just wondering, put a whole system on a FPGA
<hamitron> few other bits
<hamitron> wham bam
<hamitron> new toy
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> there is AVR32 as well but those are a bit esoteric
<HazRPG> ali1234: hmm, you should know... what's the green coating found on PCB's called?
<ali1234> lacquer?
<HazRPG> because I'm guessing the green stuff is a coating to stop the copper oxidising
<ali1234> it's also part of the soldering process
<HazRPG> hmm, how so?
<ali1234> well they put the green stuff on before the components
<ali1234> and so the solder only sticks to the exposed pads, not the whole traces
<ali1234> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_soldering
<ali1234> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solder_mask
<HazRPG> hmm, I thought flux was used for soldering
<HazRPG> hmm, shows what I know about soldering...
<HazRPG> never heard of tinning before
<hamitron> there are different methods
<hamitron> nn all o/
<HazRPG> hamitron: night dude
<HazRPG> haha, this seems like a great invention: http://www.youtube.com/user/CuriousInventor#p/u/30/ue6WYqYc81k
<HazRPG> might have to make my mum one for her dogs :P
<HazRPG> ooo, ali1234 you might like this: http://www.youtube.com/user/CuriousInventor#p/u/27/gXWCm-HmTq4
<HazRPG> Hmm... should /usr/lib/indicator-applet/indicator-applet really be using 337M of RAM?
<HazRPG> it says here 1166M of virtual memory for that same thread >_<
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: could be related to bug 684599
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 684599 in Network Manager Applet "Memory leak in nm-applet" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/684599
<HazRPG> could be
<MartijnVdS> It's one of those black hole bugs
<MartijnVdS> it hasn't been fixed, but people aren't working on it
<MartijnVdS> even though it eats lots of memory
<HazRPG> well that's no good lol
<MartijnVdS> It's how lp works, sadly
<HazRPG> what, that bugs don't get fixed? lol
<MartijnVdS> no, that they get lost in a tsunami (ha) of other bugs
<HazRPG> ah heh
<Myrtti> meh.
<HazRPG> haha love this game - good memories with sonic triple trouble of me and my uncle spending a whole day to try to finish the game :P
<AlanBell> morning all
 * AlanBell is on the reserve tank of internet today
<knightwise> morning everyone :)
<knightwise> how is everyone today
<knightwise> just a couple more days to the launch of 11.4
<PalaPad> Waking up, just showered and shaved, will dress and head to breakfast, hotel life sucks
<knightwise> PalaPad: at least you dont have to cook your own brekkie
<knightwise> where RU at for the moment ?
<PalaPad> Oxford
<PalaPad> And yeah looking forward to Brel IRS
<PalaPad> Brekkies
<PalaPad> Stupid autocorrect
<knightwise> Android Phone ?
<PalaPad> iPad
<PalaPad> Ok gonna finish dressing and head for breakfast, back in 30ish
<daubers> Morning
<knightwise> morning daubers
<knightwise> how are you today
<MooDoo> hello
<daubers> knightwise: nearly awake
<daubers> started having some success with c++ last night (finally!)
<knightwise> aah , thats always good to hear
<knightwise> you programming some stuff ?
<daubers> Reworking a few old programs I wrote in C++ to learn the language
 * knightwise released the podcatching script he made with the help of the #ubuntu-uk channel to the interwebs
<knightwise> cool
<AlanBell> final call for the quiz night date
<AlanBell> http://doodle.com/eucwzx2qdiiiqs5p
<PalaPad> Meh continental breakfast :(
<knightwise> hey AlanBell
<knightwise> djeez
<knightwise> Japan thing is NOT looking good
<knightwise> looks like reactor 2 is exposed ?
<DJones> Cock-a-doodle-doo
<knightwise> hey DJones
<DJones> hi knightwise
<knightwise> how are you today
<danfish> DJones:Please keep that cockerel quiet - it just woke me up :p
<DJones> knightwise: Not bad, awake too early listening to the dawn chorus
<DJones> danfish: COCK-A-DOODLE-DOOOOOOOO
<DJones> I think I'm going to have to be sneaky & pinch AlanBell's chickens
 * knightwise wish i didn't visualise that remark
<czajkowski> Aloha
<knightwise> hey czajkowski
<knightwise> how are you
<andylockran> howdy all
<andylockran> quick question - got a server with a loadavg always over 1.  iowait is negligible, and so is cpu usage - what other factors will be contibutary to the load?
<DJones> andylockran: That almost sounds like a homework question :)
<Myrtti> "Java"
<danfish> andylockran: the national debt ;)
<andylockran> DJones: indeed it does :p
<andylockran> random that load on this myth backend never drops below 0.8
<DJones> Ugh, no wonder my computer is so slow, 20+ MS updates to install
<MartijnVdS> DJones: ie9 )
<MartijnVdS> :)
<DJones> MartijnVdS: Nope, just "regular" security updates
<danfish> the only secure XP system is one that's powered off
<DJones> danfish: Wake on lan, has to be unplugged as well :)
 * czajkowski has an itchy nose, this does not bode well
<dwatkins> hiya
<danfish> czajkowski: itchynoseitis. nasty :(
<czajkowski> indeed
<DJones> Where did I leave that pepper
<danfish> DJones: v true. Let's encase in concrete to be certain
<czajkowski> I've no davmor2 to stab
<czajkowski> :(
 * czajkowski stabs MooDoo 
<DJones> danfish: And drop it into the bottom of the ocean or into a volcano
<andylockran> oops
<andylockran>  /wc by accident
 * knightwise suggests czajkowski could dip her nose in liquid nitrogen 
<czajkowski> eh no
<danfish> andylockran: what does powertop show on that mythbox?
<hoover> mornin all
<popey> morning
 * popey tops up AlanBell's internets
 * AlanBell thanks popey for the additional packet of packets
<popey> you're welcome to come over to chez popey and use mine
<popey> (I am at home today)
<andylockran> danfish: need to recompile kernel to get powertop working :s
<andylockran> (gentoo)
<AlanBell> thanks, but I think I will gatecrash TheOpenSourcerer's place soon
<popey> ok
<daubers> AlanBell: Why no interwebs?
<AlanBell> dunno
<AlanBell> adsl syncs, gets a connection speed, passes no packets
<daubers> .... nice
<popey> is someone standing on the line?
<popey> morning kazade
<AlanBell> I reported the fault and I should get a phone call about it within 48 hours apparently
<AlanBell> last time this happened it resolved itself after 24 hours or so
<kazade> o/ popey
<daubers> Time for tea!
<Daviey> AlanBell, Did you turn it off and on again? :)
<bigcalm> Always time for tea :)
<daubers> Nooooo!!! No clean mugs :(
<MooDoo> daubers: nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
<nigelb> Daviey: standard practice :p
<Daviey> :)
<Daviey> Does any here have mysql server install on Maverick?
<Daviey> anyone*
<Daviey> (Desktop)
 * Daviey wakes up.
<Mez> Daviey: I do.
<kazade> Daviey, me too
<Mez> Daviey: why?
<Daviey> Okay, great!  When you login, GDM greeter - do you see "MySql Server" as a login option?
<Mez> Daviey: no.
<Daviey> Innnnnnnnnnnnnnteresting.
<Mez> Daviey: do this:-
<Mez> getent passwd | grep mysql
<Daviey> Natty does, and i cannot work out why :)
<bigcalm> Morning kids :)
<Mez> and paste the output :)
<Daviey> Mez, I tried chaning the password from ! to *
<Daviey> changing
<Mez> Daviey: I'm after the UUID
<Daviey> in /etc/shadow
<Mez> UID *
<Daviey> mysql:x:117:128::/nonexistent:/bin/false
<Mez> hmm... Shouldn't be showing then
<Daviey> exactly!
<Daviey> I'm scratching my head :)
<nigelb> Daviey: heh
<nigelb> Daviey: nice bug :P
<Mez> Daviey: /etc/gdm/gdm.schemas - find the <key>greeter/Exclude</key> and add the user in there.
<mungojerry> Mez: nice tip
<Daviey> I'm not convinced that is the issue
<Mez> or change greeter/IncludeAll to false, and then just add the users you want to greeter/Include
<mungojerry> does anyone know if https://twitter.com/sabdfl is really Mark S. twitter account?
<nigelb> yeah, I think it is
<mungojerry> i think he only used it when he was drunk during 2008 & 2009 then
<Daviey> Mez, can you, grep -i nobody /usr/share/gdm/gdm.schemas ?
<Mez> grep: /usr/share/gdm/gdm.schemas: No such file or directory
<Daviey> Mez, okay, looks like the location moved :)
<Mez>       <default>bin,root,daemon,adm,lp,sync,shutdown,halt,mail,news,uucp,operator,nobody,nobody4,noaccess,postgres,pvm,rpm,nfsnobody,pcap</default>
<Mez> (from /etc/gdm/gdm.schemas)
<Daviey> Mez, So... that doesn't have mysql either!
<Daviey> Seeing postgres did make me wonder.. :)
<popey> mungojerry: it is his
<Daviey> Mez, can you just fix it please, kkthnxbye.
<popey> ok, todays unity annoyance
<popey> have a dual screen machine, with one app full screen on each display
<popey> you have to click _in_ a window before you can grab the title bar to drag it out of full screen
<JamesTait> Oh, and good morning, everyone!
<Mez> Daviey: /msg Daviey can you paste me the /etc/passwd and /etc/shadow entries for mysql?
<Mez> wow... fail
<mungojerry> popey: i know the beta isn't out yet but getting a working natty in time for release day isn't looking too good atm ?
<popey> i suspect this is working as designed
<popey> cant help but point out that if they implemented focus follows mouse this issue would not happen
<mungojerry> i find focus follows mouse nasty
<Mez> Daviey: try running usermod --expiredate 1 mysql
<Daviey> Hmm
<Daviey> I don't think that is it
<Daviey> i'll try
<mungojerry> i want gnome-terminal to remain in focus (and at front) while scrolling a firefox page - i do that all day long
<Mez> Daviey: and paste me the entries in the shadow/passwd for it :D
<Mez> mungojerry: right click, always on top ? (or are you on about unity here?)
<mungojerry> mez, that's true but it's a feature i use all the time, so it's best to be the default. i'm doing it right now in pidgin
 * Mez shrugs.  As much as I like the fact that Ubuntu are mving with the times - if they force something like unity/gnome-shell on me - I may have to go back to KDE
<Mez> I'm glad they're not so far.
<Daviey> Mez, passwd is pasted about, shadow is: mysql:*:15046:0:99999:7::1:
<Daviey> Mez, I just tried expiredate, and that was no joy.
<mungojerry> Mez: open source always finds ways around problems :)
<Mez> Daviey: yeah, I can see that.
<Mez> Daviey: the only difference I see is that my password hash is ! (signifying locked password) rather than *
<Daviey> Mez, I really didn't like Unity - but i've been trying it since the weekend and the only real criticism i have - is that you have to used tabbed gnome-terminals rather than seperate windows.
<mungojerry> maybe i'm not very visionary but DE's seem to be looking towards tablets , even though 95% of us are still on desktops/laptops
<Daviey> Mez, Yeah, i changed that myself to test.
<mungojerry> Daviey: middle click the terminal icon in unity
<Mez> Daviey: terminator ftw
<mungojerry> gives you a fresh terminal. however to get to show list of open terminals we need to wait until somebody provides functionality like that of docky...or use docky :)
<Mez> Daviey: personally, unity has been awful for me every time I've tried it.  It wouldn't show any apps last time I tried it... also - it doesn't like dual monitors
<Mez> Daviey: I'll keep trying it - but personally, I can't see me liking it much.
<Mez> anyways, gotta go call a man about a dog.
<mungojerry> anyone use vmware vsphere?
<popey> i dont use tabbed terminals in unity
<popey> ctrl+shift+t
<Daviey> Mez, see -desktop btw
<Daviey> mungojerry, still working out how to middle click :)
<popey> 3 fingers
<mungojerry> Daviey: 2 button mouse? mac?  middle click on the terminal icon in the launcher :P
<mungojerry> the best thing about working in academia is that you can perform software upgrades during the day :)
<popey> blimey, thanks for the middle click thing, i never knew that
<popey> so much to learn with unity
<mungojerry> popey: came from frustration
<mungojerry> arrgghgh hey it works!
<Daviey> popey, I struggle using two fingers concurrently, let alone 3 :)
<mungojerry> i also like that you can run unity --reset from a vty session rather than requiring to be on the active X session
<popey> :)
<screen-x> morning :)
<mungojerry> morning screen-x
<mungojerry> grrr i don't understand launchpad
<mungojerry> i must be using it wrong..none of my bugs ever seem to see progress
<X3N> mungojerry: if you link to them here we could check them for you
<mungojerry> x3n do you specialise in any app?
<MartijnVdS> mungojerry: launchpad bugs = black holes
<X3N> I get responses from my bugs..
<X3N> mungojerry: no, but I was more thinking that we could check that they're filed right more than anything else
<mungojerry> X3N:  here's one, bug 607405 - i can reproduce it, and have linked to a crash report bug number too. am i right to mark it confirmed? is it my job to mark confirmed or someone else
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 607405 in gwibber (Ubuntu) "gwibber crashed with NameError in <lambda>()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/607405
<mungojerry> mind you , not sure about future of gwibber now that the author has gone to the dark side
<MadLeomon> dark side?
<X3N> he's apparently got fed up with open source
<X3N> seems to be quite a bit of progress on that mungojerry
<directhex> ryan paul?
<mungojerry> MadLeomon: directhex he's switched to apple now
<directhex> evil! throw him in the de icaza shaped fire!
<mungojerry> X3N:  am i right to mark it confirmed if i can reproduce?
<mungojerry> the rules don't seem clear.
<mungojerry> particularly if i uploaded crash logs
 * popey notes that ken van dyne does most gwibber work these days AFAICT
<popey> not Ryan
<popey> s/dyne/dine/
<mungojerry> thats good to hear
<mungojerry> i don't actively use it anymore due to performance issues, but i would use it again if they fixed those..
<popey> meh, I'm looking forward to a new better twitter client :D
<mungojerry> from kazade?
<kazade> :)
<mungojerry> how's your app getting on kazade
 * screen-x reads about twitter throwing its apps out the pram
<kazade> mungojerry, yeah, it's getting there just got past another hurdle
<kazade> I can now start implementing the last basic functionality (retweet/reply etc.)
<kazade> It works as a twitter client though, I'm running it all the time
<mungojerry> good to hear kazade
<mungojerry> screen-x: yeah, twitter are dumb. if they want to make money they can either insert ads as compulsory tweets or have a twitter pro account if you have more than 250 followers or something
<screen-x> mungojerry: hmm, I may need a new iphone compatible message bus.
<screen-x> mungojerry: and, erm GO AWAY!
<mungojerry> ?
<mungojerry> screen-x: i understand your last message, but not the previous one :P
<mungojerry> screen-x: i made a deal that i would stay on irc so long as the drilling noise is going on
<screen-x> mungojerry: ok, I'll stop yelling at you ;-)
<mungojerry> and they stop spraying us with concrete dust :P
<mungojerry> nice of you to care :P
<screen-x> mungojerry: I use twitter to get notifications from monitoring systems, but if they are going to keep making it harder to write new apps/scripts, then I need a new way of pushing notifications to my phone.
<mungojerry> screen-x: yes, rather shortsighted of them
<mungojerry> there's always identica who publish api's i assume
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jo Shields] TWIDed. - http://apebox.org/wordpress/linux/374/
<mungojerry> if twitter died tomorrow i would just revert to liferea RSS reader
<screen-x> I wonder if there are identica clients that can push DMs to an iphone
<screen-x> mungojerry: I still use google reader
<screen-x> does identica even do DMs?
<mungojerry> dunno
<screen-x> identica does do DMs.. and there is an official status.net iphone app, but it doesn't do notifications :(
<DJones> screen-x: Are identica's DM's private, ie person to person, or do they appear in the public timeline, I thought I'd read somewhere that because identica itself was open, everything that was posted through it would also appear in a public timeline
<screen-x> DJones: haven't tested it, I just read that the iphone client supports direct messages, not sure how it works.
<screen-x> didn't carry on investigating as it said notifications will be implemented in future (ie not yet) and that is my primary use case.
<mungojerry> http://identi.ca/doc/privacy
<mungojerry> The following data items are considered private data that won't be shared with other users, business partners, or the public at large:  your "private messages"
<mungojerry> etc
<brobostigon> morning everyone.
<DJones> mungojerry: screen-x Just read this "Direct messages will not show up in the public timeline. They will only be visible in the Inbox and Outbox tabs of your profile. If you receive a direct message, you'll be notified with an email containing the direct message and a link to reply to the message." So not what I though anyway
<mungojerry> sounds like twitter then
<mungojerry> except less trendy types
<livingdaylight> Greetings
<brobostigon> good morning livingdaylight
<livingdaylight> gm brobostigon
<livingdaylight> want to burn iso to disc. Option pops up to burn file or burn contents. Can someone advise me which is the correct for burning os.iso to dvd?
<DJones> livingdaylight: What app are you using to burn with
<livingdaylight> DJones, its default what ubuntu pops up when I slot dvd in
<livingdaylight> let me see
<DJones> livingdaylight: I normally cancel that and just use gnomebaker which has an option to burn an iso
<livingdaylight> CD DVD creator
<livingdaylight> ok
<DJones> I would have thought it was burn file rather than contents though for an iso
<livingdaylight> I think I used to do that too, but since it pops up everytime, like advertising I've finally succumbed to it
<livingdaylight> it recognizes that its an iso and says so, presumably knows what its for then, yet gives me the option, thought I'd double check before wasting a dvd
<DJones> As I've never used that app for burning an iso, i'm only guessing
<mungojerry> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BurningIsoHowto#Ubuntu
<livingdaylight> Brasero is the default burner in ubuntu?
<mungojerry> the wiki suggests right mouse click the iso and choose "write to disc"
<livingdaylight> mungojerry, i've hat mixed luck with that method in the past
<dogmatic69> if i have some folders that are owned by user 'git' and i need 'www-data' to access them, what is the best way?
<dogmatic69> i could just chmod a+r but there must be a better way..
<mungojerry> dogmatic69: are you serving the files via the webserver?
<mungojerry> depending on the group permissions, you could add git to www-data group, or vice versa
<dogmatic69> mungojerry: yip gitview needs to show the repos on the web, and gitosis manages them with the git user
<AlanChicken> yay, my internets are fixed
<brobostigon> :)
<directhex> bok bok bok
<nigelb> AlanChicken: did you turn it off and turn it back on?
<AlanChicken> someone did
<AlanChicken> I can now ping my house
<nigelb> directhex: hahaha
<nigelb> AlanChicken: at TheOpenSourcerer's place?
<AlanChicken> but I have to go home and change my default gateway before I can ssh in
<AlanChicken> yeah
<nigelb> :)
<dogmatic69> nigelb: where are you in the uk?
<nigelb> dogmatic69: nowhere :D
<nigelb> dogmatic69: I'm in India :)
<dogmatic69> lol
<dogmatic69> #ubuntu-india :D
<mungojerry> AlanChicken: why chicken?
<mungojerry> i wondered but was too polite to ask :P
<directhex> bok bok bok
<DJones> mungojerry: He has a chicken shed with chickens
<mungojerry> ah
<mungojerry> for eating or eggs
<brobostigon> or both?
<czajkowski> nope
<czajkowski> only Eggs
<mungojerry> it seems chickens can live for as long as some dogs do
<daubers> Stupid blasted python sockets
<daubers> Why on earth is it listening on one interface, but not the others
<AlanChicken> mungojerry: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7snWiHvpwc
<mungojerry> mmm looks tasty
<DJones> AlanChicken: Has there been any conclusion on which came first yet?
<AlanChicken> yes
<AlanChicken> some people think the chickens come first, others think the eggs come first
<AlanChicken> they are all wrong
<AlanChicken> the chicken coop comes first, otherwise a fox will get them
<DJones> AlanChicken: :) I was just thinking that just as you said it
<kazade> obviously "Eggs" in general came before Chicken's evolved ;)
<kazade> Dinosaur eggs for example :)
 * kazade ruins it
<mungojerry> i remember dinosaur egg sweets
<mungojerry> they cam in a box so you could suck it for 2 hours and put it back till later
<screen-x> eww
 * DJones seconds that
 * mungojerry quickly changes subject.
<mungojerry> kernel 2.6.38 has been released http://kernelnewbies.org/Linux_2_6_38
<dogmatic69> could anyone help me out with the permissions, cant seem to get www-data reading user 'git' files
<dogmatic69> ive done sudo usermod -a -G  git www-data and sudo usermod -a -G  www-data git
<mungojerry> dogmatic69: what are the group permissions on the files owned by git
<dogmatic69> groups git shows www-data and groups www-data shows git but still getting permission denied
<dogmatic69> mungojerry: drwxrwx-w-
<mungojerry> and the group owner?
<dogmatic69> git:git
<dogmatic69> file_get_contents(/home/git/repositories/geneo1.git/description): failed to open stream: Permission denied [2]
<nigelb> dogmatic69: AlanChicken hangs out in #ubuntu-in, so we're prettty much set ;)
<dogmatic69> that particular file is -rw-rw-rw- 1 git git   39 2011-03-15 12:29 description
<dogmatic69> nigelb: hehe
<mungojerry> dogmatic69: have you tried making a test file in an alternative test directory?
<dogmatic69> mungojerry: how you mean?
<mungojerry> there might be an issue with permissions /home/git directory not allowing access
<mungojerry> i thought the files would be in /var/www/html or something
<dogmatic69> ye, you think linux is not liking it due to being a home dir?
<mungojerry> dogmatic69: well the git homedir may only allow rwx------ for git.
<dogmatic69> mungojerry: dont think so
<dogmatic69> mungojerry: what is does the d mean where there is a - here... -rwxrwxrwx
<dogmatic69> others have drwxrwxrwx
<directhex> directory
<dogmatic69> man
<dogmatic69> ive got it to sort of work but its just horrible
<dogmatic69> chown to ubuntu and made it a+x -R
<dogmatic69> but still not working proplerly
<mungojerry> dogmatic69: hard to tell without seeing your machine, but in these cases it's always best to reduce to the simplest situation : e.g. make a /test/ directory, and play with permissions in there to establish that www-data can read files owned by git:git in there.. the many levels of parent directories in your real-world example add complexity, so best to make sure it works in a simple case first.
<czajkowski> http://twitpic.com/49pno2  this is how people bribe me
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> what do people think of three, i am getting increasingly frustrated with o2's signal quality, and three's payg deals are much better than o2's.
<brobostigon> will three be any better,?
<directhex> three's signal will likely be worse
<brobostigon> oh,not good, :(
<mungojerry> brobostigon: some network providers have detailed maps for you to check coverage to a fine level
<brobostigon> directhex: i have plugged in one of their free sims, into one of my old nokia's, to test signal.
<mungojerry> i was able to check that t-mobiles coverage at my house is lame
<brobostigon> mungojerry: i checked that it says the quality should be good.
<mungojerry> o2 or 3
<brobostigon> 3
<mungojerry> it's worth checking the t&c
<brobostigon> mungojerry: o2, has some very annoying signal blackspots.
<Laney> i thought three had a network share
<mungojerry> brobostigon: i find the same with t-mobile
<brobostigon> mungojerry: i am just doing that.
<brobostigon> mungojerry: including a nice big blackspot, in the front bar of my  favorite pub.
<mungojerry> t-mob and orange have a network share..not using it yet because android gives a warning when switching from tmob to orange on data
<brobostigon> ah.
<screen-x> "everything everywhere"
<mungojerry> screen-x: except for certain stations on my route home..
<screen-x> mungojerry: the genious of the name is that it makes job titles sound awesome
<brobostigon> ny other advice/suggestions/ideas?
<mungojerry> brobostigon: get a free PAYG 3 sim
<mungojerry> and test it for a week
<brobostigon> mungojerry: done,got it ysterday,
<mungojerry> also , notify o2 of the blackspot in your fave pub :P
<brobostigon> mungojerry: ihave done, they have said, its because of the old thick stone, shielding signal.
<popey> brobostigon: where I work the only network that gets rock solid connection inside the building is 3
<brobostigon> popey: :)
<brobostigon> iwill walkaaround blckspots with the free 3 sim, in my old nokia,and test.
<mungojerry> brobostigon: what's the 3 payg deal?
<brobostigon> mungojerry: Â£15 (300mins 3000sms unlimited-data)
<mungojerry> brobostigon: similar to what i pay on my contract
<brobostigon> mungojerry: ah, interesting.
<Azelphur> giffgaff do 250 mins unlimited texts unlimited data (no fup) for Â£10 :D
<Azelphur> that's what I'm on
<brobostigon> three have no FUP, on said plan either,
<Azelphur> indeed
<brobostigon> Azelphur: i will look at giffgaff aswell.
 * mungojerry feels happier knowing that there's always a workaround: setting your own whilelist for the notification area: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/03/how-to-hide-or-show-app-tray-applets-in-ubuntu-11-04/
<Azelphur> brobostigon: if you go with giffgaff lemme refer you we both get Â£5 xD
<brobostigon> Azelphur: :)
<mungojerry> what network does giffgaff use?
<Azelphur> :)
<Azelphur> O2
<mungojerry> i think brobostigon wanted away from them :P
<Azelphur> oh :P
<brobostigon> free mobile internet untill 31 mar 2011, :(
<Azelphur> hehe
<mungojerry> then we kick you in the nuts
<AlanBell> !ping
<lubotu3> Here I am, brain the size of a planet and they ask me to respond to factoid requests. Call that job satisfaction? Because I don't.
<AlanBell> yay, I feel like myself again
<brobostigon> Azelphur: they will have the same blackspots then, so not really alot of use-
<Myrtti> AlanBell: and not a chicken?
<Azelphur> I see :)
<Azelphur> then yea I'd say next best bet is 3, they have more 3g coverage than anyone else
<brobostigon> Azelphur: yes,iwould agree. verytrue.
<Myrtti> hm
<mungojerry> i rarely get 3g on tmob...usually 2g..fortuantely i am mostly connected via wifi
<Myrtti> anyone else use dabr for twitter?
<brobostigon> mungojerry: 3g on o2, here is distinctly patchy, very similer.
<brobostigon> ok, i have some jobs to dointown, be backlater.
<Azelphur> I just speedtest.net'd 3498kbps / 1698kbps on giffgaff :)
<dogmatic69> omg
<Azelphur> Ironically I just speedtest.net'd 0.9mbps on my landline.... *sigh*
<dogmatic69> mungojerry: fixed with a .htaccess rewrite rule o.o
<dogmatic69> deleted every thing, started over, read the docs...
<mungojerry> lol
<dogmatic69> never seen "RewriteRule ^([^.]*).git/(.*)   ?a=co&p=$1&r=$2" fix permission problems before...
<popey> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1202940253.png
<popey> \o/
<Azelphur> D:
<popey> loving the 2Mb/s up!
<popey> thats faster than my ADSL down used to be!
<Azelphur> popey: 2Mb/sec on virgin cable? that's a bit depressing
<Azelphur> I almost get that on my phone
<popey> up
<Azelphur> yup, up
<Azelphur> I just did a speedtest.net from my phone and got 1.6 up
<popey> oh, so i see
<popey> nice!
<AlanBell> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1202943383.png me today
<popey> AlanBell: D! Back of the class!
<Azelphur> lol
<AlanBell> yeah :(
<Azelphur> http://speedtest.net/result/1202928116.png going for the high score :D
<gord> i get pretty good up compared to my down, but still crap =\ http://www.speedtest.net/result/1202945809.png
<mungojerry> the speedtest dial only goes up to 100
<Azelphur> gah I can't even play minecraft, I connect and time out :(
 * popey wants to find someone who can identify the song in the latest charlie brooker program
<popey> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00zg1rh 24 mins in - NSFW probably
<gord> popey, you don't have one of those apps on your phone that can do that?
<popey> he's talking over it
<Azelphur> wow, my internet is so broken :(
<Azelphur> I can't even read my email, god alone knows how I'm on IRC
 * mungojerry likes a challenge
<Myrtti> popey: was that the hooray for the na*is part?
<popey> just before that yes
<popey> starts just as he explains the premice of the program
<popey> snare drums, piano, then some kind of wooden thing, xylophone maybe
<mungojerry> the song that goes bumbumbumbumdidibumbumbum
<ball> mungojerry: "Goodness Gracious Me!"
<mungojerry> what have i done now?
<mungojerry> :P
<ball> How do I put my rubbish bin back where it's supposed to be?
<ball> mungojerry: That's the title of the song that goes "bumbuddibumbuddi..."
<mungojerry> popey: there's a website for people like you http://www.whatsthatcalled.com/forum/index.php?showforum=16
 * popey signs up
<mungojerry> thought you were maplins1 :P
 * ball misses Maplin
<ball> They used to sell a high-res kit for the ZX81
<DJones> ball: Was Maplins around when teh ZX81 was out? I could understand Tandys being around, or maybe even Tandy's became Maplin
<DJones> I didn't realise Maplins was that old, 1st store in 1975
<mungojerry> all those guys from the 80s are dead - sinclair/commodore/acorn (except as part of ARM) ..wonder who will be dead in 20 yrs...nokia, ...
<DJones> mungojerry: Not quite all dead, Apple are still around :)
<mungojerry> DJones: apple weren't on my radar as a young lad. and MS baled them out too
<popey> mungojerry: http://www.whatsthatcalled.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=15813
<popey> none of those companies is dead technicall
<popey> *technically
<popey> Amstrad owns Sinclair
<popey> Commodore name has been passed around over the years but still exists
<popey> Acorn became ARM didnt they?
<popey> and yes, I expect Nokia to die soon :(
<mungojerry> also Acorn guys -> Psion -> Symbian -> Nokia -> RIP :(
<balor> About a million years ago (or so) there was a native Android thing/VM/davlik implementation for Ubuntu.  Is this still around?
<ball> popey: ARM was spun off from Acorn.  The remainder of Acorn went on to concentrate on things like set-top boxes for cable TV
<ball> I forget their new name.
<mungojerry> Pace?
<DJones> We can't forget the other Acorn offshoot ... "Acorn Antiques" :)
<Azelphur> damn, there is something seriously wrong with minecrafts networking code xD
<Azelphur> I'm having a conversation with someone in game, and watching the CraftIRC relay
<mungojerry> Herman hauser must be absolutely loaded
<Azelphur> and they are replying in game to what I'm typing, before what I'm typing even shows up on my client
<Azelphur> so like, I say "Hi", It comes up in IRC, Someone replies, Then I see myself say "Hi" in game like 50 seconds later XD
<DJones> Azelphur: It could just be your internet connection
<Azelphur> It could be, I need to do a speedtest to my server and see what I get
<Azelphur> not amazing, 64KB/sec
<mungojerry> lol
<mungojerry> what's the latency
 * DJones offers Azelphur a freshly fed & watered carrier pidgeon
<Azelphur> 90ms
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> what's the uuk minecraft server?
<Azelphur> I'll try connecting to that and see what's going on
<popey> popeydc.dyndns.org
<Azelphur> yep, I've downloaded like 3 chunks and got no further :P
<Azelphur> and now it crashed \o/
<Azelphur> I clearly broke it with my amazing powers :(
<Azelphur> lol I see a squid swimming through the air :D
<Azelphur> fly little squid, fly!
<Myrtti> home made tom yum gai â¥
<popey> right, best get kids from school
<Azelphur> just tried minecraft on my netbook and got the same issues, tethering to my phone now to try :)
<szymon_g> morning
<DJones> Can somebody look at the video file on this website at about 3 minutes 20 seconds and let me know whether the "planned" road layout is insane http://www.cheshireeast.gov.uk/environment_and_planning/planning/heritage_natural_environment/landscape/design_and_management/regeneration_projects/poynton_village_centre/poynton_-_the_future_video.aspx
<DJones> There's about 20-30 seconds after that of suicidal pedestrians crossing the road, I'm sure the designer must have spent their childhood playing Lemmings
<mungojerry> DJones: you mean the roundabouts
<DJones> yes
<Myrtti> aw, I should've made double the amount of the soup
<mungojerry> double roundabouts are insanity IMO and should only occur as a temporary workaround to fixing a real problem
<mungojerry> as the picture demonstrates, there is already potential for problems in their mockup
<mungojerry> looks like the congestion problems i get in sim city when accidentally remove a road tile
<Myrtti> roundabouts are a cheap way of managing traffic flow in places where traffic signals would probably be better
<mungojerry> Myrtti: these are DOUBLE roundabouts
<mungojerry> conjoined twins
<Myrtti> the only place where roundabouts make more sense is out of the town, where there isn't enough traffic to warrant traffic signals
<DJones> Myrtti: There are already traffic signals where they're planning on putting these double roundabouts
<Myrtti> mungojerry: double roundabouts are even more useless
<mungojerry> DJones: are the video makers against the idea?
<Myrtti> I don't understand the great love britons have for roundabouts
<Myrtti> useless
<mungojerry> they look like they are
<directhex> roundabouts manage flows in a different way to signals
<directhex> not better or worse. different
<jpds> roundabouts are brilliant for cyclists.
<DJones> mungojerry: Thats the planners video showing how well its going to work :)
<mungojerry> DJones: surely not :(
<mungojerry> look at the jams!
<mungojerry> the best traffic management is to put in traffic lights and cut the power - seems to work well round my way when there's a traffic light failure
<DJones> mungojerry: Yep, look at the pedestrians scurrying across that middle bit of the two roundabouts, I'm sure some of them get run over
<mungojerry> DJones: yeah, where's the articulated lorry driver supposed to be looking?
<mungojerry> you need a codriver to navigate thatroundabout
<directhex> here's the thing: if you look at their plans, the accidents are focused on stretches of clear straight road
<Myrtti> meh, my hypochondria isn't going away :-(
<directhex> "shared spaces" is the fancy term for "get rid of all the signs and markings, so every driver needs to be shitting themselves & concentrating hard in order to not die"
<directhex> research shows it's actually genuinely successful - concentrating drivers kill fewer people
<mungojerry> Myrtti: i hope it's not catching
<directhex> their roundabout plan looks zany and hard - but as part of a shared space design, i suspect that's the point
<DJones> I don't know about a co-driver, I'd want beta blockers, a bottle of vodka & a blindfold
<directhex> notice the lack of actual roundabout middles. it's planned chaos
<mungojerry> directhex: where i work, pedestrians don't even understand that you need to press a button to make the lights change.
<DJones> directhex: That description of "Shared spaces" is a brilliant way of putting it
<mungojerry> and the drivers don't have mental faculty to concentrate
<directhex> DJones, it's true though. and it *does* work
<Myrtti> directhex: I'd love the drivers to concentrate also on not killing anyone else
<directhex> Myrtti, that's the point. drivers can't just go in autopilot in a shared space
<mungojerry> there should be a subway or footbridge to remove the dead pedestrians from the equiation
<directhex> they're more alert, so they react
<Myrtti> I hate roundabouts, especially here where the car drivers have 0 respect for pedestrians
<mungojerry> Myrtti: i think its because there's too much else to look at
<directhex> oh hells, that's what they did with my estate... that's why there are no markings on the re-paved sections!
<directhex> that or they're lazy
<Myrtti> I'd be rich if I'd be given a tenner everytime I see a driver ignore the "yield" triangle when driving into a roundabout with zebra crossings. They don't seem to notice the fact the sign is *before* the zebra crossing, not after it.
<directhex> DJones, i've never seen the shared space principle applied to staggered roundabouts, but it's effective in town centers
<mungojerry> when i went to paris i stood for ages on top of l'arc de triomphe at the chaos below, wondering how they weren't crashing
<DJones> mungojerry: From what I remember of traffic in paris, they weren't crashing because they never moved in the traffic jam
<mungojerry> DJones: oh, it was chaos at high speed when i saw it..rather fun
<mungojerry> bit like the first corner of a grand prix
<DJones> Heh
<Pendulum> DJones: my family's fairly certain there must be some sort of supernatural force involved that keeps them from crashing
<mungojerry> somebody called mark shuttleworth posted on OMG..didn't realise that he reads it
<X3N> mungojerry: link?
<X3N> although given his last out pourings I'm not sure I want to read..
<mungojerry> X3N: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/03/thunderbird-unity-extension-ready-for-testing/#comment-166030849
<szymon_g> thanx for link, nice extension btw
<mungojerry> despite the occasional odd behaviour from members of their team, omg are bringing some good unity stories lately, esp. with jcastro et al joining in
 * bigcalm looks in for a moment
 * DJones looks out of the window 
<Myrtti> hm, I'm almost considering getting more chicken and mushrooms to make more soup
<szymon_g> "mushrooms"? they are only good with sauerkraut :)
<Myrtti> they're brilliant in tom yum gai
<szymon_g> "tom yum gai"? whats that?
<kaushal> hi
<szymon_g> hi kaushal
<kaushal> how do i install 32 bit libraries on 10.10 desktop running 64 Bit os ?
<kaushal> szymon_g: hi
<DJones> szymon_g: I looked it up before, from memory, thai sweet & spicy chicken soup
<szymon_g> apt-get install ia32-libs â kaushal
<kaushal> ok
<szymon_g> hm... sounds nice. i like thai curry
<Myrtti> szymon_g: spicy and sour thai chicken soup
<szymon_g> kaushal, those are "standard" 32 libraries, pretty generic. depending what do you want to install you may need to get other libraries
<Myrtti> BF has a flu so it fits the bill
<DJones> I normally have Chilli when I've got a cold, the hotter the better
<kaushal> szymon_g: ok
<Myrtti> we've dated for good three years soon and this is about the first time I've seen him with flu
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-MF9zkU2Lw
<szymon_g> Myrtti, its called "man's flu" ;)
<popey> youtubed for easier identification!
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXLHWmjA5IE <- man cold
<popey> mungojerry: that guy (concious user) reads and replies to stuff a lot, he's active in ayatana
<mungojerry> popey: however i was unaware that sadbfl read omg...however he said somewhere he likes reddit so..
<bigcalm> sadbfl or sabdfl?
<mungojerry> :)
<bigcalm> Just checking ;)
<mungojerry> not intended
<bigcalm> Ah, fair enough :)
<Myrtti> szymon_g: I'm the one with the more violent sicknesses... *shrug*
<szymon_g> yeah. i understand. that time of the month
<szymon_g> ;)
<Myrtti> you can tell that to the Clexane shots I'll probably need to have everytime I travel by air in the future...
<DJones> Myrtti: Clexane, nasty, you my every sympathy with those
<DJones> They seem to be a bit of a family tradition for my wife, her mum & aunties
<Myrtti> DJones: homozygotic F V Leiden... I've failed in the luck lottery lately
<DJones> Myrtti: I hadn't heard of that, with my wife, its Hughes Syndrome - Sticky blood
<szymon_g> o.O that sounds creepy
<DJones> Myrtti: We were on holiday last year and her legs swelled up the day before we were due to come home, she ended up spending an extra week in hospital with clexane injections
<Myrtti> I like the probability numbers. In comparison to normal women without oral contraceptives, who have the chances of 1:125000 to get a DVT or pulmonary embolism, I've been blessed with the probabilities of ... <drumroll>1:150</drumroll>
<szymon_g> Myrtti, is it, somehow, dangerous?
<DJones> Myrtti: Are you on any of the precautinary medication, warfarin etc
<Myrtti> no, but I'm wearing flight socks as we speak and stopped some of my medication. Got the specialists opinion here that says nothing can be done apart from preventive Clexane when I fly or am pregnant, the flight socks, non-hormonal contraception and losing weight.
<Myrtti> Finns don't have official instructions what to do for preventing a blood clot in my case, only what to do when I've had one.
<Myrtti> which, of course, sucks.
<Myrtti> c'est la vie
<Myrtti> (that has become my motto lately)
<DJones> That side certainly doesn't sound good, mother-in-law is on warfarin, has to get checked out every week to check the levels
<Pendulum> Myrtti: you're the 3rd person in about 2 weeks I've known either get diagnosed or tested
<Pendulum> (and that's not counting the people who already were diagnosed)
<Mez> Myrtti: That sucks.  DVTs are bad - but I hate the way that they only ever link it to pulmonary embolism... There are so many things that it can cause (Stroke/Cardiac Failure etc)
<Myrtti> methinks minecraft is in order
<bigcalm> Are you making anything?
<Myrtti> I seem to be doing nothing since I can't connect to my usual server...
<directhex> i wonder if there are plans for a minecraft nuclear reactor...
<shauno> I think you'd need something a bit more interesting than lava.  turning it into cobble isn't very exciting
<MartijnVdS> lava + pressure cooker = diamond?
<MartijnVdS> would that work for you? :)
<screen-x> mmmm nuclear reactor surrounded by creepers
<Cepheus> more like coal + pressure cooker
<shauno> that said, I think all the reactor stuff is completely over-done.  guess it sells more news than worrying about the rest of the side effects of the quakes
<MartijnVdS> Cepheus: + lava (to heat said pressure cooker) :)
<Cepheus> MartijnVdS: sounds like a winning combo
 * Tan says hi
<szymon_g> hi Tan
<daubers> Evening
<screen-x> evening :)
<MartijnVdS> \o
<sladen> oly_: (assuming you're the same person as on AskUbuntu), do you have a solution to your kernel .config question?
<oly_> nope doubt its me, not even aware of askubuntu :p
<sladen> oly_: okay!  (if you're interested, it's  http://askubuntu.com/  )
<X3N> hello sladen
<sladen> X3N: muwahahah GNOME events boxes.  Missed my Eurostar cos of those
<X3N> agh :|
<X3N> I wonder how useful it is these days
<X3N> given that hardware isn't so precious
<X3N> I remember lugging it across reading to london, not something i'd ever want to do again heh
<czajkowski> Aloha
<MartijnVdS> \o czajkowski
<hamitron> well, comp desk sorted
<hamitron> :)
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List:  http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines -  http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting Thursday March 17th 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting  http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | Quiz Night: 16th April 21:00 | http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/live/
<nucc1> is there some way i can determine the highest resolution timer available on my machine?
<nucc1> i suppose current linuxes use nanoseconds.
 * hamitron spanks Azelphur 
<Azelphur> o.O
<hamitron> did you find a buyer for that psu?
<dogmatic69> nucc1: clock ticks
<dogmatic69> dont know if/how you can use them, but they are around
<hamitron> so annoying when you buy bits, and some old bits you used to use decide to not work when building a seperate machine
<hamitron> I got a RAID 0 array with an error now
<hamitron> :(
<nucc1> dogmatic69, thanks. seems straightforward to do from C. In any case, calling System.nanoTime() from Java gives me a result that is in nanoseconds. It's good enough.
<dogmatic69> cool
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: This is why people don't use RAID 0
<hamitron> MartijnVdS, I only use it for transcoding video
<hamitron> ;)
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: ah it's "swap"
<hamitron> sort of, yeh
<hamitron> but I was lazy and left a few things on there
<hamitron> so may of paid the price
<hamitron> appears to be my "program files" folder
<hamitron> :s
<MartijnVdS> Face, meet palm
<hamitron> got a dodgy PSU
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> that or I've overloaded it
<hamitron> cheap ass thing
<hamitron> only cost 7 quid ;)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Global Jam: More Events, More Needed! - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/03/15/ubuntu-global-jam-more-events-more-needed/
<shauno> battenberg .. om nom nom nom
<bigcalm> Icky
<shauno> !
<bigcalm> I'm not a marsipan fan
 * hamitron neither
<hamitron> bbl, coffee, food and testing bits
<shauno> that's cool.  I wasn't offering to share :p
<ali1234> what do people actually do at these global jam events?
<bigcalm> Eat toast?
<AlanBell> keepassx
<Laney> pectin
<Laney> lots of pectin
<bigcalm> I think I've been in the office for long enough today. Time to take the laptop to bed
<zleap> when is the next podcast due ?
<AlanBell> zleap: they just this second finished recording it
<zleap> ok cool
<zleap> so i should be able to download it shortly,  thanks
<AlanBell> in the next couple of days
<zleap> ok cool
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List:  http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines -  http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting Thursday March 17th 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting  http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | Quiz Night: 16th April 21:00 | Jam \o/
<popey> zleap: tomorrow
<zleap> ok thanks
<ali1234> so is askubuntu.com like a sub-section of stack exchange, or is it separate?
<popey> yes
<popey> :)
<ali1234> eg does my askubuntu.com login work on stack exchange?
<popey> the former
<popey> yes
<ali1234> ok, cool
<popey> well, no
<popey> but they aggregate your logons
<ali1234> oh... :)
<popey> or something
<ali1234> if i search on stack exchange, is it possible to find the content on askubuntu?
<popey> pass
<popey> dunno if there is a cross site search
<ali1234> i guess i can ask on meta :)
<popey> well, there is, its google :)
<HazRPG> \o howdy all
<dogmatic69> o/
<dogmatic69> anyone know how i can check what ppa is running?
<dogmatic69> nvm
<dogmatic69> apt-get dist-upgrade works
 * dogmatic69 cries
<ali1234> fail: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12751404
<ali1234> stupid idea badly executed :(
<dogmatic69> lol
<dogmatic69> almost as much fail as my site...
<dogmatic69> apt-get dist-upgrade ~= 503 errors :(
<AlanBell> I have no idea how you would enginer a digital clock to fail like that
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: run it off a windows box
<AlanBell> I can understand it going off
<AlanBell> or all segments on
<AlanBell> but stopping is a curious failure mode
<ali1234> running it off any kind of programmable computer is just asking for trouble
<ali1234> asic timers have been around for years
<AlanBell> it is a 101 logic programming exercise
<ali1234> actually you could still get that freezing even without a computer to crash
<ali1234> if it has shift registers (which it will to drive the LEDs) they will hold the last value even if the asic blows up
<AlanBell> probably relays to control the segments actually, logic circuits won't light them up directly
<ali1234> relays?
<ali1234> itym power transistors :)
<AlanBell> yeah, or them
<ali1234> but you can get integrated shift registers/ led drivers in 1 chip anyway...
 * AlanBell did basic electronics 20 years ago
<ali1234> eg http://www.maxim-ic.com/datasheet/index.mvp/id/4909
<AlanBell> I bet they tried to be smart and use the GPS clock signal or something
<ali1234> ugh, no
<ali1234> like i said last night, i have an alarm clock that does that
<ali1234> and it is consistently 15 minutes slow
<ali1234> because the designers forgot to take into account the ephemeris adjustments
<gord> hehe, maybe you are 15 minutes "into" the time zone? ;)
<ali1234> gord: when it was new it was right
<gord> was just being silly
<HazRPG> erm... apparently commodore are remaking the 64's again!
<HazRPG> however don't all rush at once, its using all singing all-dancing tech of the current era
<HazRPG> Intel Atom processor and Realtek sound card, along with nvidia for the graphics card
<HazRPG> http://www.commodoreusa.net/CUSA_C64.aspx <== check it
<hamitron> HazRPG, how much it cost?
<HazRPG> hamitron: no price yet, they haven't made them yet
<ali1234> it's just a PC with a C64 logo on it
<hamitron> ali1234, and?
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> well, quite
<HazRPG> its got a boot loader at startup to select the C64 O/S (emulated apparently), and you can install "windows" as it states
<hamitron> so basically dual boot
<HazRPG> yeah, but it sounds like they're doing it PS3 style
<HazRPG> GameOS + OtherOS styley
<ali1234> they probably just put vice on it
<ali1234> in a small linux image
<HazRPG> most likely lol
<hamitron> well worth the extra 200 quid
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> or whatever they think they can get
<HazRPG> however I have a feeling they'll be designing it to run with the full 2GB RAM, etc
<hamitron> what c64 game needs that? ;/
<HazRPG> would be pointless putting the SD card, CD/DVD/Blu-ray drive - if the C64 part couldn't use all of that
<hamitron> that is for loading your game "images"
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> that they will charge for?
<HazRPG> unsure?
<ali1234> wii virtual console anyone?
<hamitron> C64N
<ali1234> except that the games on there are actually good :)
<HazRPG> its essentially an emulator... so I don't see why the disk images wouldn't work on this, or at least hacked to use them
<hamitron> C64 Network \o/
<hamitron> 99p each
<hamitron> 500kb downloads
<ali1234> C64 games are nowhere near 500kb
<hamitron> even with modern encryption and copyright protection?
<ali1234> the thing only has a 16 bit address bus
<hamitron> but it looks cool anyway
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> I think I've decided about my phone
<HazRPG> the new/old c64?
<HazRPG> :P
<hamitron> I wanna convert my Spectrum ZX into a side talking beast
<HazRPG> xD
<HazRPG> I was close :P
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> I don't have a C64 to convert
<hamitron> also, everyone here seems C64 crazy
<hamitron> and I like to be different
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> suppose a Spectrum ZX 128 +2 would be better, so could use the built in cassette for voice mail
<ali1234> Z80 is much nicer to program than 6502
<hamitron> don't you think ARM is best choice?
<ali1234> they are not comparable
<hamitron> true
<HazRPG> heh apparently commodore are doing a new like of computers too, along with a new line of amigas too
<HazRPG> Commodore Phoenix
<ali1234> it's all vapour
<HazRPG> and Amiga 1000, 2000, 3000
<ali1234> they've been talking about that stuff for years
<HazRPG> ali1234: don't worry I know ;)
<ali1234> and it's not commodore, it's just some company that bought the name
<ali1234> actually the commodore name has been owned by several such companies over the past 10 years, none of which ever did anything with it, despite lots of talk
<hamitron> if the PC market gets much more boring, there may be more of a call for something basic
<ali1234> it's probably more like 15 years now
<ali1234> how can you say PC market is boring?
<ali1234> it's *always* been boring
<ali1234> that's the main appeal
<hamitron> early 90s was more fun
<ali1234> not if you had a PC
<hamitron> even mid 90s
<hamitron> I am comparing a PC from then, with now
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> now you plug stuff in and it just works :/
<hamitron> no IRQ and that
<hamitron> configuring I mean
<ali1234> nobody actually wants to do that stuff
<hamitron> a shame
<hamitron> ;/
<ali1234> nobody ever did
<hamitron> there are many "geeks" who don't even know about IRQ now
<ali1234> they're not geeks, they are just pretending
<hamitron> hence the ""
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> but it was easier to considering modding stuff
<hamitron> or even designing stuff
<ali1234> all of that stuff is as easy today as it was then
<ali1234> in fact it is easier since you don't have to pay $2000 for an oscilloscope
<hamitron> I can't see how people are gonna learn stuff like opengl in the future
<HazRPG> back
<HazRPG> hamitron: hmm... you make the IRQ sound like its something to wow over, isn't it just an request interrupt :/
<HazRPG> or something like that
<ali1234> the same way they learn it now, by buying the red book...
<hamitron> depreciating the older methods removes the first step
<hamitron> ;/
<stuart__> Hello, I'm having a bit of difficulty getting accents, ie graves and umlats (spellign bda) to work. Now i have tried just about all that I can find. Additionally, I am working under xfce, but not from a xubuntu install.
<ali1234> deprecating!!!
<dogmatic69> how many people even know what is ram
<hamitron> my spelling is not good :/
<ali1234> stuart__: in what program?
<dogmatic69> not 'it stores stuff', but what saves the bits
<stuart__> Any program.
<ali1234> stuart__: such as?
<stuart__> gedit, leaf pad. pigeon.
<HazRPG> stuart__: ah, that sounds like a keyboard layout issue
<stuart__> Basically, the compose key doesn't work as it ought to.
<HazRPG> you mean the key that does: `Â¬
<ali1234> Ä
<ali1234> hmm
<stuart__> Well it is a uk keyboard. On an asus eee 1005ha. I can set compose to alt_gr/ralt but I still can't get it to work properly.
<ali1234> áº¹
<stuart__> And I can go Â¬
<ali1234> hmm.....
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: heh, if they've been to college they ought to know what RAM is... we designed a small RAM chip in Digital Works for our Hardware class
<dogmatic69> nice
<ali1234> Ì£
<dogmatic69> ali1234: o.o
<dogmatic69> most people dont get that all the fancy stuff is just made up of tiny resistors etc
<ali1234> ok so i did that by typing alt gr + / then a letter or alt gr + ? then a letter
<HazRPG> stuart__: hmm... I'm confused, so you have a UK layout keyboard... what kind of layout are you expecting?
<stuart__> nah. not having it.
<hamitron> wiring up d-type flip-flops is totally different to doing ++c; though
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> Å­
<ali1234> that was alt gr + ~ followed by u
<ali1234> so you need to type alt-gr + accent you want, then the letter
<stuart__> This I know. It just doesn't wanna do it.
<HazRPG> ali1234: I get this by press alt gr + ~ a few times: `
<HazRPG> doesn't do anything the first time though
<ali1234> that's so you can make letters with accents like Å­
<ali1234> anyway, it does seem likely to be a problem with keymaps
<HazRPG> ali1234: ah, I'm with you
<HazRPG> so you have to press alt gr + ~, then release and press the key you'd like the accent
<ali1234> or perhaps xfce is using alt-gr for some kind of modifier
<HazRPG> Ã¹
<stuart__> I am not sure...
<stuart__> Under 'gnome-keyboard-settings' the settings can be set. But afaik, I also had this problem under gnome...
<HazRPG> stuart__: I'm guessing your doing alt gr + ~ then pressing the letter you want an accent with... because that's what I had to do
<stuart__> I have tried about everything. I had it working before, a long time ago and alt-gr ~ a thing did work.
<HazRPG> stuart__: open up terminal, and type in the following: sudo showkey
<HazRPG> type in your password
<HazRPG> and then press the ALT GR key when it asks you to press a key
<HazRPG> the output should say keycode 100 press, keycode 100 release
<HazRPG> if its showing something else, then its assigned as a different key
<stuart__> Check.
<HazRPG> stuart__: its showing 100?
<stuart__> Yes.
<stuart__> A press and a release.
<HazRPG> hmmm
<HazRPG> try the other alt key
<HazRPG> it should show 56
<stuart__> 56
<stuart__> The keys do work. They just aren't allowing a compose.
<HazRPG> yeah I guessed the keys were working, I was just making sure that the alt gr key was actually registering as being an alt gr key
<ali1234> create a new user and log in to gnome with that user
<stuart__> I will have to log out as i did turn off multiple user thingy.
<ali1234> if that works, log in to xfce with that user
<ali1234> if it doesn't work, something is really wrong...
<HazRPG> stuart__: try this... this will hopefully rule out if the keyset is the issue or not
<hamitron> so ali1234
<HazRPG> CTRL+SHIFT+U ... then release the U key (but keep hold of CTRL+SHIFT), then type 0102 - then release the CTRL+SHIFT key
<hamitron> what you think to the fixed function pipeline in opengl?
<ali1234> it's pretty lame
<hamitron> not good for learning?
<ali1234> meh
<ali1234> it's easy to learn, but what is that knowledge good for?
<ali1234> books are good for learning
<hamitron> for practical applications nothing, but practising using it lets you get your head around the 3d way of things
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> lack of serial ports upset me also
<ali1234> you know most of the matrix transformations in opengl are done in software right?
<ali1234> all the matrix stack stuff
<ali1234> push and pop
<ali1234> it's all software in nearly all opengl implementations
<hamitron> old stuff is still supported too
<ali1234> which means removing the fixed function pipeline has absolutely no effect on your ability to use this, or similar apis
<hamitron> yeh
<ali1234> what you describe as "the 3d way of things" is actually just vector/matrix math
<hamitron> yeh
<ali1234> all 3d engines implement their own version because the stuff in opengl 1.0 is kind of rubbish
<ali1234> and the whole push/pop method of calculating a scene graph is all backwards to the way you do it in a scene graph anyway
<hamitron> a noobie learning doesn't want to learn everything at once though :)
<ali1234> what is to learn?
<ali1234> the mathematical concepts are extremely similar when you remove all the push/pop and gltranslate nonsense
<hamitron> it just gets you thinking I suppose
<ali1234> if you can conceptualize what it means to multiply together two matrices, the rest is trivial
<ali1234> and that's better served by watching a video or something
<hamitron> I can't see why so much effort / time was spent putting the system in place in 3.0 to deprecate stuff
<ali1234> because the programmable pipeline can be programmed to act like fixed function
<ali1234> so it's just pointless duplicated code :)
<ali1234> this is how most GPUs are doing it now anyway
<hamitron> kk :) so you think they will leave it functioning for a good time yet?
<ali1234> sure
<hamitron> if that is done, I'm happy
<hamitron> I am an opengl newbie, and just feel "left behind" by the talk of deprecating stuff used in learning materials
<ali1234> well yeah
<ali1234> this is why there is no point learning fixed function :)
<ali1234> the new stuff is radically different
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> I've pottered around with 3 different things so far
<ali1234> but you would be better off learning to use a 3d engine first
<ali1234> one that has a scene graph
<hamitron> the early stuff I find easier to see and relate to maths
<ali1234> when you understand what it's purpose is, it's easier to conceptualize how it does it
<hamitron> k
<ali1234> this is the problem with bottom up learning
<ali1234> if you don't understand how a thing is used, it's much harder to care about how it works
<ali1234> and that makes it harder to learn
<ali1234> so you're probably thinking "why doesn't this apply to the arduino then?"
<hamitron> I don't do arduino tbh :)
<ali1234> yesterday i was advocating bare AVR over arduino
<hamitron> yeh
<ali1234> and the reason for that is that the arduino is kind of limited in what it will let you do
<hamitron> I remember that
<ali1234> where as a full 3d engine vs raw opengl will let you do a lot more stuff very quickly
<ali1234> when i was at university one of the labs was to make a solar system simulator in opengl
<hamitron> so is my red book that uses 2.1 useless?
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> i would recommend doing that in opengl, and then doing it in say ogre3d
<ali1234> or possibly the other way around
<ali1234> either way, doing it in a 3d engine with a proper scene graph is about a billion times easier than doing it in opengl
<hamitron> I think I've wasted a lot of time then
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> unless it will help me with glide?
<ali1234> glide? the 3dfx driver?
<hamitron> yeh
<ali1234> you shouldn't be using that
<hamitron> I know
#ubuntu-uk 2011-03-16
<ali1234> when i was writing my solar system program at uni i was lucky enough to have an SGI machine with hardware open gl... but the labs were all software 3d with mesa
<hamitron> shouldn't do a lot of things, but we do them ;)
<ali1234> but the code was no different on each
<ali1234> well, that's not really true
<ali1234> different implementations of opengl have different bugs
<ali1234> if you use a 3d engine you wont need to worry about any of that
<ali1234> that's another reason to use one
<hamitron> so you'd use ogra?
<hamitron> or however it is spelt
<ali1234> ogra is the ubuntu-arm developer :)
<ali1234> ogre3d is what i use for a 3d engine
<ali1234> i like it because it doesn'trailroad you into making a FPS game
<ali1234> but other engines are available
<hamitron> but then aren't you restricted by the engine?
<ali1234> well yes and no
<hamitron> I mean, if you let your creative juices flow
<ali1234> not really because what are you going to do?
<hamitron> I intend to code a custom morph sorta thing
<ali1234> all the 3d engine does for you is load the objects from files and manage the scene graph (aka where are the objects) and do culling and fancy effects
<hamitron> I want to create the objects in the program
<ali1234> you can do that in ogre, no problem
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCeUqKeks2U
<ali1234> ^ the whole race track is generated procedurally
<hamitron> damn it
<hamitron> I have youtube blocked
<hamitron> :(
<ali1234> whyyyyy
<hamitron> I was asked to block sites that distract people
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> so block it for everyone but you?
<ali1234> bofh 101
<hamitron> I do normally have my own tunnel
<hamitron> but been setting all my stuff up fresh
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> NEW COMP \o/
<hamitron> so with orge3d I can draw things from individual squares?
<hamitron> drag the vertices around
<ali1234> no
<hamitron> and stuff
<ali1234> nor can you do that in opengl
<ali1234> you need to write a whole 3d editing program either way
<hamitron> why can't opengl be used for that?
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> opengl doesn't even have any mouse functions
<ali1234> it's only for drawing
<hamitron> oh, I used SDL with opengl
<hamitron> with a sample thing
<ali1234> you can make objects with modifiable geometry in ogre
<ali1234> but you still need to write a whole UI either way
<hamitron> it was only using the fixed function pipeline though
<hamitron> it didn't do anything useful, was just playing :)
<hamitron> ali1234, so I should use C++ too? :/
<ali1234> sure
<stuart__> hello again!
<ali1234> you don't need to use the advanced stuff like templates
<hamitron> I hate my C++ book
<ali1234> stuart__: hi, did it work?
<hamitron> still not got through it
<stuart__> Ok, here is the craic... new user -- works in gnome and xfce.
<ali1234> you can use ogre with python too btw, although it's kind of tricky to set up, and very hard indeed to package for windows
<stuart__> But not for me.
<hamitron> no way am I learning python
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> either C or C++ ty
<ali1234> so just use C++ like it was C
<hamitron> my book encourages a C coder to use modern C++ ways for things
<ali1234> oh, not C++ for C programmers is it?
<hamitron> feels like I don't even know how to code when reading some of it
<hamitron> no
<ali1234> i have that book, it sucks
<hamitron> but it starts with more advanced stuff to get stuff going
<hamitron> then teaches more of the stuff I know, nearer the back
<ali1234> stuart__: so....... it's something in your gnome config then i guess
<hamitron> ;)
 * hamitron likes to reset his home directory every now and then
<hamitron> I compare it to formating windows every few months
<hamitron> ;)
<stuart__> So I see. But all my lovely settings ;(
<ali1234> stuart__: there are some settings in keyboard -> layouts -> options
<ali1234> i don't know what any of them do but some seem to change the right alt behaviour
<stuart__> I have looked in all of those settings and to no avail...
<stuart__> It is an odd one though.
<ali1234> input methods?
<stuart__> That is a possibility.
<hamitron> amazing
<hamitron> looks like another fan is causing me problems
<hamitron> unless removing power to my graphics card did it
<shauno> don't you hate when companies use weird-ass usb cables so you can't charge your toys when you need to :(
<hamitron> :)
<stuart> Whoah....Â  Ã©
<stuart> It has reset. Somehow!!!! â¯
<stuart> Well thank you all for your time. Have a great night.
<ali1234> i just got a tip on some amazing microcontroller hardware:
<ali1234> http://mbed.org/handbook/mbed-NXP-LPC1768
<ali1234> Â£40 from farnell
<ali1234> that blows away any arduino :)
<hamitron> that actually looks good
<hamitron> well small too
<ali1234> yes, and it fits in standard protoboard
<shauno> and there's no IDE, it's all tied into their online platform.  luckily you get a (Single) license key with the device.
<shauno> this place changes ideologies quicker than I can spell it ;)
<ali1234> no IDE?
<ali1234> it's arm
<ali1234> just use gcc :)
<hamitron> think I'll just get a fpga
<hamitron> but gonna complete existing projects first
<hamitron> do you guys aquire loads of junk to "do stuff sometime"?
<ali1234> i try not to
<hamitron> I try ;) just fail badly
<shauno> don't see jtag exposed on the pinout there.  so I guess you just gotta hope the 'mbed' interface is easily hackable
<ali1234> it's programmed on serial
<ali1234> but the first thing i would do is write a usb bootloader
<ali1234> also, the jtag is exposed, it's multiplexed with other stuff
<hamitron> right
<hamitron> off to bed
<hamitron> tired and staring at toys ali1234 is linking me to
<hamitron> overly active brain before sleep is bad....
<hamitron> o/
<ali1234> hmm wait... the mbed actually has an interface chip between the usb and the lpc chip
<ali1234> so it's just as fail as the arduino
<shauno> seems there's two different usb's on it
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> you can always wire up a second usb port to the real chip
<ali1234> it's still annoying and poitnless though
<shauno> the mini-usb presents mass-storage via the 'mbed interface'; the one at the pinout is separate
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> that sucks
<ali1234> this is what i actually want: http://shop.ngxtechnologies.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_34&products_id=100
<shauno> seems most boards are doing the same thing.  sticking the serial programmer on a dedicated usb port because no-one has serial ports anymore
<ali1234> right
<ali1234> but it's trivial to make a usb secondary bootloader
<ali1234> with no extra hardware
<ali1234> so you only need to use that serial programming interface once
<ali1234> but on boards like the mbed and arduino you're stuck with it forever
<ali1234> at least the mbed you can wire up a second plug
<ali1234> but that kind of defeats the purpose of buying a board with usb on it
<shauno> I have arduino that simply don't have usb on them.  whine solved :)
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> except that i'm not interested in interfacing a PC with anything other than USB
<ali1234> cos like you said, no one has serial ports any more
<ali1234> and with just a microcontroller all you can really do is blink some leds
<ali1234> so the most interesting thing to do with them is make USB devices
<ali1234> although this thing *does* have ethernet...
<ali1234> which kinds of puts it in a different ballpark really
<ali1234> but still i am quite surprised they did not include a USB bootloader in the mark ROM
<shauno> sorta.  would love me a bit of wifi
<ali1234> wifi is a gigantic pita
<ali1234> needs way too much software stack
<ali1234> bluetooth is more realistic with uCs
<shauno> sure, but what point in having a thumb-sized board that needs to be hardwired
<ali1234> hence, bluetooth :)
<ali1234> and you can attach a bluetooth module on any serial port
<ali1234> so it is very much possible
<shauno> then it needs a host on the other side again :/
<ali1234> um... you need something else on wifi for it to talk to as well
<shauno> yeah, but not 5 meters away
<ali1234> bluetooth is essentially adhoc wifi
<shauno> my router's here all the time.  my laptop, not so much
<ali1234> and bluetooth is up to 100m now
<ali1234> unlike wifi it degrades gracefully with range
<ali1234> modding a router for bluetooth is also quite easy :)
<ali1234> i guess one thing the mbed has going for it, you can wire it up for usb host, and still program it over usb
<AlanBell> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vix6TMnj9vY&feature=related
<AlanBell> will it run android I wonder
<Daviey> AlanBell, around?
<DJones> Morning all
<AlanBell> Daviey: indeed
<nigelb> Daviey: got a min?
<hoover> good morning
<Daviey> AlanBell, Groovy!
<Daviey> nigelb, i think so
<nigelb> Daviey: hey, you have that bot to report planet uk posts, any chance you can get me the config for the supybot rss plugin for that?
<nigelb> Daviey: my attempts failed spectacularly :\
<Daviey> nigelb, I could dig around, but you are best asking X3N - it's based on his code.
<daubers> Morning
<daubers> Next time someone says "Can you do a support call to Australia" remind me to say no
<DJones> daubers: Timezone problems?
<daubers> DJones: Doing switch config at 11pm hurts my head
<daubers> especially when it's a switch I don't know
<DJones> Heh, doing anything apart from lieing in bed  hurts my head at that time
<czajkowski> Morning
<DJones> Morning czajkowski
<Daviey> daubers, Yeah.. last cycle I had the same issue with the west coast USA.. I was on the phone to upstream at Friday night, till passed Midnight.. Brain frazzled.. not fun.
<daubers> urgh
<selinuxium> morning all   o/
<selinuxium> Hi Daviey, long time, no chat...You good?
<Daviey> selinuxium, Yep!  Not too bad.  Next time i'm in London, we must go for a beer to catch up.  I trust life is good for you?
<selinuxium> Daviey, indeed it is. Things are pleasantly well my side of the fence... :)
<selinuxium> Daviey, always up for a beverage. :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> did someone say beer?
<selinuxium> Morning TheOpenSourcerer
<hoover> beer?
<selinuxium> :)
<hoover> Wake up call ;-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all.
<hoover> Mornin
<Daviey> Who will be going to London for Natty release?
<TheOpenSourcerer> selinuxium: I'm in town tomorrow for a lunch with some old mates...
<nigelb> Daviey: thanks (sorry, stepped away)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Around Moorgate in fact.
<selinuxium> TheOpenSourcerer, Cool... could pop out for one... :)
<selinuxium> TheOpenSourcerer, Still got this display board here too... :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> It will probably run into late afternoon.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Indeed - that was my thinking selinuxium
<selinuxium> TheOpenSourcerer, you got my number?
<TheOpenSourcerer> nope selinuxium
<czajkowski> ALOHA!!!
<AlanBell> Daviey: I will I think
<czajkowski> if anyone is looking to poke me on saturday rea venue or tables or trying to find me, give me a shout and I give give you my mobile
<czajkowski> Daviey: I will!
<Daviey> Groovy!  I think i'll need some beer then.. :)
<bigcalm> Morning peoples :)
<czajkowski> bigcalm: howdy
<selinuxium> morning czajkowski AlanBell bigcalm
<kazade> hmm, any eta on when the new podcast can be downloaded? I missed it last night :(
<czajkowski> kazade: later today
<kazade> \o/
<kazade> thx czajkowski
 * kazade waits
<screen-x> daubers: just linuxjobs post, \o/ minions
<daubers> screen-x: I know! Desperate for them now
<daubers> http://mailman.lug.org.uk/pipermail/linuxjobs/2011-March/000581.html if anyones interested
<kazade> daubers, can you move about 30 miles East? :)
<Tommeh> what the hell.. Half of my search engines in Firefox have disappeared 0_O
<Tommeh> Google, Wikipedia
<Tommeh> the weird thing is, I've found them all again except Google's
<daubers> kazade: Heh, bit too close to the European disty then
<Tommeh> It's completely absent in the add-ons
<Neoti> well i just posted a comment on my facebook and challenged some friend to use ubuntu 10.10 for 1 week to see how they get on... and i put i would be happy to provide support etc... i wander who will accept ......
<JamesTait> sudo aptitude -y install random-greeting && random-greeting
<JamesTait> (Don't try that command, I don't know if it will actually install anything!)
<DJones> !info random-greeting
<lubotu3> Package random-greeting does not exist in maverick
<DJones> JamesTait: That answers that
<JamesTait> DJones: You need the right PPA. ;)
<DJones> Heh
<daubers> Ahhh, bacon helps the brain switch gear
<czajkowski> http://twitpic.com/49zdu4 whooo
<MartijnVdS> http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lhx9z21lLf1qzozj1.gif
<DJones> Who plugged the cat into the mains
 * screen-x spent an hour tripping in the world of osmos last night
<screen-x> seriously mellow
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: ropelight cat is ropey?
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: No idea.. it hurts my eyes :)
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: hi
<gord> popey, (or anyone else that might know) - do you happen to know what the exec for chrome is called? (not chromium) - chromium is chromium-browser just wondering if chrome takes the same route
 * mungojerry notes jcastro's use of \o/ emoticon on his unity article on omgubuntu. popey would approve 
<popey> pass, not on an ubuntu box right now
<popey> :)
<popey> \o/
<screen-x> gord: google-chrome
<gord> screen-x, you are a star, saved me a few boring minutes of downloading, thanks :)
 * czajkowski throws toys at gord 
<gord> sweet! toys!
 * czajkowski has taffy 
<czajkowski> :D
<BigRedS> anyone know where phpversion() gets its version string from?
<gord> i don't keep desktop toys at my desk, i bought some little magnets once for playing with whilst things built, really hard to get anything done when those are on your desk...
<kaushal> hi
<screen-x> gord: I make music with an old heatsink and a screwdriver
<jpds> BigRedS: PHP_VERSION_ID ?
<screen-x> morning kaushal
<hoover> Hello kaushal
 * gord sends out more contributor agreements for unity - seems like there are more new people every week
<BigRedS> jpds: mmm, I was more wanting to append to it, presumably at compile time
<Tommeh> In case anyone cared, this fixed my search add-on woe: http://support.mozilla.com/en-US/questions/751010#answer-146360
<selinuxium> Thinking of migrating to Narwhal tonight....
<screen-x> BigRedS: main/php_version.h looks like a good candidate
<selinuxium> Hey BigRedS , How are you doing?
<czajkowski> selinuxium: it may not help your frustration
<selinuxium> czajkowski, at least it will be focussed... :)
<BigRedS> screen-x: oh yeah. I've jsut been getting annoyed at that not being set in the configure options! I always forget I have the source...
<selinuxium> And I will be able to shout...
<screen-x> BigRedS: that may well be generated by the build system..
<mungojerry> selinuxium: by migrating, do you mean your prod system?
<selinuxium> mungojerry, God no!
<mungojerry> selinuxium: i was gonna say...
<selinuxium> mungojerry, my laptop... I can deal with pain on that...
<mungojerry> there is pain
<Bollinger> is there a command line tool which I can use to report cpu load counter. Something like a mile-o-meter on a car. Not an instantaneous value (via top etc)?
<mungojerry> but lots of fun if you like reporting bugs
 * screen-x considers mungojerrys philosphical statement
<selinuxium> mungojerry, are there still large show stoppers out there?
<screen-x> Bollinger: by not instantaneous do you mean graphs?
<mungojerry> Bollinger: cpu usage by %, or load average?
<mungojerry> selinuxium: showstoppers, probably not, but annoyances without workarounds as  yet , yes :)
<screen-x> Bollinger: top/htop will show you cumulative cpu time for each process (time+)
<Bollinger> screen-x, I would like something that gives me a number, which I can take a look at once a day to get a delta. If the delta one day is huge I know something is very cpu intensive
<popey> you can do that yes
<popey> you could use a tool like rrd to put the cpu load into a db periodically then ask it for an average per day
<popey> i do that with my house electricity usage
<selinuxium> mungojerry, Cheers  :)
<mungojerry> Bollinger: even vmstat 60 (substitute for n seconds) would give some useful info
<screen-x> Bollinger: sar could also be useful
<popey> ooo, both also good suggestions
<mungojerry> Bollinger: have you heard of conky?
<selinuxium> mungojerry, I like to have a slightly broken system... Ubuntu has been so stable I haven't needed to fix it... Losing my linux foo..
<screen-x> !info sysstat
<lubotu3> sysstat (source: sysstat): system performance tools for Linux. In component main, is optional. Version 9.0.6.1-2 (maverick), package size 247 kB, installed size 1144 kB
<mungojerry> conky lets you put this info onto the desktop background as a little chart and numerical info
<mungojerry> including cpu temperature etc
<Bollinger> mu
<popey> \o/ mu
<screen-x> Bollinger: have you stopped beating your wife yet?
<mungojerry> Bollinger: e.g. check out pics http://fak3r.com/geek/howto-conky-config-conkyrc-for-debian-part-2/
<Bollinger> mungojerry, I cant use a gui app, I am looking for a command line
<mungojerry> ah ok :)
<Bollinger> screen-x, just installing trying to get working sar
<czajkowski> gobmsacked
<bigcalm> Has all work stopped on 9.04? I haven't been notified of an update for weeks on my parents' machine
<bigcalm> Will attempt to upgrade that machine to 10.10 this weekend when we visit
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTS
<AlanBell> in short, yes
<MartijnVdS> popey: ouch @ mailing list link
<bigcalm> Fair enough :)
<czajkowski> bigcalm: it's not an LTS
<screen-x> bigcalm: yah 9.04 is EOL
<bigcalm> czajkowski: I know that :)
<bigcalm> Cheers. I guess it went EOL recently
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: That thread is a bag of #fail
<AlanBell> yeah, not an LTS, but the dates for non-lts are on the LTS page too
<bigcalm> Gotcha
 * screen-x wonders why czajkowski is gobsmacked
 * kazade really needs to implement "Retweet" in his Twitter client
<bigcalm> My bytemark host is still using 8.04 :S
<directhex> 9.04 went EOL in october
<mungojerry> bigcalm: 8.04 is LTS though innit?
<bigcalm> mungojerry: it is
<bigcalm> Just didn't realise that I have had the host for so long
<czajkowski> screen-x: https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana/msg05037.html
<mungojerry> 10.04 has been my fave release ever
<bigcalm> Or bytemark are slow to offer new LTS installs
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: hi
<kaushal> < MartijnVdS> ipband - daemon for subnet bandwidth monitoring with reporting via email
<bigcalm> I still grumble at PHP 5.3 being made the default. Breaks a lot of PHP 5.2 sites. Ah well, progress 'n all that
<kaushal> shall i pastebin the ipband.conf ?
<bigcalm> Any 'specy 4 eyes' here got any tips on how to stop the bridge of the nose from getting sore?
<bigcalm> I've used glasses for 4 years and still haven't figured this one out
<screen-x> bigcalm: my wife has recently started poking small bits of plastic into her eyes in the morning.
<screen-x> looks painful, but may solve the problem
<bigcalm> screen-x: sadly I'm only slightly long sighted, so use specs for computer useage
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: I don't know it. I only apt-cache search'd
<screen-x> bigcalm: slightly sounds like a good thing :)
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: ok
<kaushal> np
<bigcalm> screen-x: I guess, but it means that I can't use contacts as I need to take my glasses off when I leave the room
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: i dont see anything on the webpage ?
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: I don't know
<kaushal> screen-x: hi
<kaushal> hoover: hi
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: ta for the 2nd playlist. It was very well received :)
<kaushal> since you greeted me
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: can i seek help somewhere ?
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: yup
 * czajkowski has an itchy nose 
<czajkowski> ever good
<czajkowski> *never
 * popey puts the pepper away
<bigcalm> I get that while eating out sometimes
<bigcalm> Still haven't figured out the cause
<TheOpenSourcerer> bigcalm: In case you didn't know here is a useful PPA for 10.04 servers https://launchpad.net/~txwikinger/+archive/php5.2 :-)
<popey> i get it just after putting on aftershave
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: most interesting
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: ah, I already have it all pinned in 10.10 :)
<AlanBell> admin
<AlanBell> oops
<popey> :D
<AlanBell> this is not openerp
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<screen-x> AlanBell: at least you didnt type the next line ;-)
<popey> password:
<TheOpenSourcerer> 8x0sa0(((nqwojdow09-08lm ***
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh
<popey> \o/
 * popey hax0r3s the gibson
<TheOpenSourcerer> I just made that one up :-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> You can use it if you like
<popey> that is indeed a two handed mash on the keyboard
<popey> i can tell by the pixels
<screen-x> wut
<screen-x> couscous = pixelated food
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<popey> haha
<popey> i like that
<AlanBell> 8 bit food
 * AlanBell ponders
<bigcalm> Amusing indeed
<bigcalm> Just applied a plaster to the bridge of my nose. Maybe it'll help :) (Yes, I look like a dork)
<mungojerry> bigcalm: maybe lighter glasses would help?
<mungojerry> ones that don't weigh anything :p
<screen-x> frames filled with helium \o/
<Pendulum> bigcalm: are you sure they're fit correctly?
<bigcalm> Pendulum: they possibly do not :)
<mungojerry> remembers the conkywizard application for producing conky setups that look like branded ubuntu :)
<mungojerry> even has the canonical dots :)
<bigcalm> Going by the release date of StarTrek, I got my last pair of specs in May 2009. I guess it's soon to be time for a new test/glasses
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: bug 734077
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 734077 in OpenERP Addons "Analytic Account Code sequence not working" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/734077
<mungojerry> i wonder if there is any truth in the idea that lots of computer work means you need glasses sooner
<mungojerry> popey: i'm concerned by that thread that you tweeted about
<bigcalm> mungojerry: I had to get glasses a wee while after getting this office job
<bigcalm> mungojerry: they stopped the headaches
 * mungojerry has been using computers for 30 years
<bigcalm> 10 hours a day without many breaks?
<mungojerry> but always insisted on good refresh rates on CRT montiors
<bigcalm> People are different :)
<mungojerry> bigcalm: working fulltime since 15 yrs ago
<mungojerry> yeah, the rest of my family have good eyesight
<mungojerry> although i get this googly eye problem a lot now
<mungojerry> which is hard to explain
<mungojerry> but my eyes suddenly want to defocus and won't focus on things. it usually happens when i don't get enough sleep
<mungojerry> but it could be physcological
<bigcalm> I was going to say that it sounds like sleep deprivation
<bigcalm> Stress can make my eyes twitch :)
<DJones> mungojerry: I've been using computers daily since the Vic 20 came out, I only wear glasses for driving/distance
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: google, probabl
<MartijnVdS> y
<mungojerry> i think screen work could exacerbate an exisiting problem
<mungojerry> "After several weeks of trying, last week I finally succeeded in installing Natty to test Unity" - that is the most worrying line i've read from unity interface designer
<popey> +1
<MartijnVdS> let's revert to gnome-shell ;)
<brobostigon> :)
<kazade> there are so many things wrong with that email..
<kazade> I mean, even if MPT couldn't get it to work, I'm astounded that a.) he hasn't seen the menu hiding thing had been implemented and b.) he wasn't even aware it was specified
<directhex> the menu hiding was broken last time i saw it
<mungojerry> here's my scale of DE likeability:  100% gnome..................................unity....kde.....lxde......fluxbox........gnome shell........xfce
<directhex> i.e. alt-f doesn't open the file menu on one version of unity. it works on another
<AlanBell> and that it was specified in a google doc of unknown authorship
 * mungojerry has recently seen a worse email at work
<mungojerry> alternative options for solutions proposed in the IT strategy were not conisdered due to too little time
<BigRedS> mungojerry: I'd always seen XFCE as almost a clone of Gnome? Is it that different now?
<kazade> AlanBell, I think Mark made it
<BigRedS> admittedly, last time I looked I wasn't much of a gnome user
<kazade> the screenshots show his home directory
<mungojerry> BigRedS: i view it as a clone that's been hit with the ugly sitck
<BigRedS>  Ahhh. That's some ugly stick to end up so far the other side of KDE :)
<mungojerry> BigRedS: KDE4.0 would be near the bottom, but KDE4.6 is improving, despite it's similarity to win7
<directhex> xfce has turned into a gnome clone fairly recently
<directhex> it used to be a CDE clone
<mungojerry> or..win7 similarity to KDE
 * mungojerry used to like openwindows on solaris :)
<BigRedS> I tried a KDE the other month, and couldn't persuade it to behave anywhere near how I wanted it to
<screen-x> Where would you look for a Contract Sysadmin? I'm potentially changing jobs and my boss hasked me to look into options for interim coverage.
<BigRedS> It was whatever's in Ubuntu 10.10, so I presume a relatively recent KDE4?
<directhex> screen-x, how much cash? :p
<mungojerry> screen-x: kazade is looking for work :P
<screen-x> directhex: ~Â£200/day 2 days/week.
<kazade> I am indeed, but full-time, perm dev work :)
<mungojerry> directhex: admittedly i haven't tried it since 4.4
<screen-x> my post is within the NHS, so getting a full time replacement will takes ages, as after a person leaves, the department have to justify their necessity before they are replaced.
<screen-x> directhex: on a serious note, is that a reasonable value?
<directhex> screen-x, no idea, i've not done contract work
<screen-x> I haven't either
<dwatkins> screen-x: local or remote?
<mungojerry> i wouldn't sniff at that if i was looking for work
<dwatkins> Contracting used to be a lot more popular, then the government made it less lucrative with the IP35 taxation laws
<screen-x> dwatkins: most would be remote
<mungojerry> i could take 2 days a week holiday :P
<AlanBell> IR35
<dwatkins> thanks AlanBell - I was thinking of an SGI systemboard, clearly
<screen-x> dwatkins: well, up to the contractor, but being in wales/bridgend, I think most people would choose the remote option.
<mungojerry> mind you , i've always been a permie and sometimes worked alongside permie contractors who were earning 5x the amount or more, for the similar job
<mungojerry> one guy came with no knowledge and i basically trained him on unix while we was on double my wage
<dwatkins> yeah, mungojerry - although contracting has less benefits such as holidays, so supposedly that compensates
<AlanBell> screen-x: it doesn't sound a lot to me, however someone might want it just to get round IR35
<AlanBell> having more than one customer is a good thing
<screen-x> AlanBell: yeah, it wont be a long contract either, hopefully 3months max.
<AlanBell> if you are a contractor with one customer and 12 invoices/year you look a lot like a permanent employee to the tax man
<screen-x> heh
<AlanBell> 2 days/week for someone else for a bit could save a lot of tax!
<screen-x> Can anyone recommend any agencies/contract support firms?
<AlanBell> try to cut out the blood sucking agencies if possible
<screen-x> ok
<dwatkins> I've heard good things about parasol, but not used them myself.
<mungojerry> arrggh copying a long url into firefox crashed compiz :( when you have 50 windows open, that sucks
<Laney> you still keep the windows, no?
<popey> hello laney
<Laney> greetings
<Laney> it's a reet nasty day and i'm supposed to be going down to holme pierrepont to do some canoeing
<mungojerry> Laney: yes, but there's a weird behaviour that you can't get focus of the window because of hidden underlapping windows...it's hard to explain
<Laney> heh
<Laney> you should be able to restart it though
<mungojerry> hopefully it's fixed in cimpoz 0.9 apparently it was reritten
<AlanBell> Laney: great fun, I have been down holme pierrepont
<Laney> mmm
<Laney> what in?
<AlanBell> kayak
<Laney> I have been munched down there many times
<AlanBell> there was *lots* of water one time we went
<Laney> yeah, sometimes it can wash out
<Laney> hope you didn't get the dreaded trent belly
<AlanBell> trouble is if you go over and can't roll out you end up very quickly with a long walk back to the top
<kazade> does anyone know any good tech (software) companies in London I could apply to?
<kazade> (trying to avoid agencies :( )
<AlanBell> I can roll out with or without a paddle on flat water, but in white water I am a bit hopeless
<Laney> yeah you need good safety to get you out fast
<MartijnVdS> kazade: last.fm? :)
<Laney> my roll is... improving...
<Laney> as in, in white water it works some of the time
<kazade> MartijnVdS, perfect
<Laney> probably take a big boat today to have an easier time
<AlanBell> knowing the size of the lumps of concrete under the water at holme pierepont I didn't really fancy hanging about upside down under the boat for very long
<Laney> yeah and it can be pretty shallow in places
<AlanBell> it was the lack of an option of swimming to the side dragging the boat that got me, you can do that in a real river, but on the course you have to go the whole way down before you can get out
 * daubers ponders the available lunch options
<shauno> I never look.  this way I can remain optimistic until the very last minute
<screen-x> shauno: reminds me of the fridge in minority report
<popey> oooo food, good idea
<bigcalm> Mmmm
<bigcalm> Weigh-in then food
<shauno> yaknow, I've never seen that
 * AlanBell heads out to the Cabinet Office
<screen-x> shauno: its not good food :(
 * mungojerry is looking for holiday cottages
<czajkowski> AlanBell: have fun
<mungojerry> yay i can now disable httpseverywhere due to the worst offenders now offering full https
<bigcalm> Do twitter clients make API calls over a secure connection?
<mungojerry> lol funniest twitter comment i've ready in a while https://twitter.com/conscioususer/status/47833949535342593
<shauno> bigcalm: I believe the https-only flag is web only
<mgdm> it applies to the iPhone app too, evidently
<mgdm> I don't know about others
<|Dreams|> just tried hooking up my ubuntu 10.10 to my new led phillips 7000 and nothing just says there is no signal connect it to my monitor and bingo works fine, it was previously connected to a 37" lcd why wont it work with y led any ideas?
<Myrtti> 1st rule of home appliance/electronics purchases: "Do Not Buy Philips"
<|Dreams|> lol
<|Dreams|> on a serious note any ideas?
<Myrtti> I am dead serious, Philips is on the list of bad-behaving manufacturers because their customer service and warranty repairs are pants.
<Myrtti> and they don't act or agree on what the consumer disclaimer council here in Finland says or decides
<Myrtti> "Consumer disputes board"
<directhex> |Dreams|, connected with what wire?
<mungojerry> |Dreams|: what input
<mungojerry> what directhex said :P
<|Dreams|> hdmi
<directhex> |Dreams|, does the monitors control panel on ubuntu see it
<directhex> ?
<|Dreams|> i cant see anything on the screen just says no signal etc
<directhex> |Dreams|, ah, i see. desktop machine, only monitor
 * AlanBell likes the new saddle on the bike
<|Dreams|> yeah, i was using the pc as a HTPC
<|Dreams|> with xbmc
<|Dreams|> on my old 37"lcd but swapped over to new led i bought and now no signal
<|Dreams|> but i know pc works fine as hooked it up to my 21" monitor in bedroom n works fine
<|Dreams|> maybe i should hook it up to the monitor change resolution to something daft like 800 x 600 etc then try on tv again?
<directhex> |Dreams|, what resolution will it be trying? do you have fancy modelines in xorg.conf?
<|Dreams|> 1280 x ermmmm
<|Dreams|> 1280 by something
<daubers> |Dreams|: Have you restarted the computer with the HDMI hooked up? My revo doesn't like adding the HDMI when it's already on, doesn't detect it
<|Dreams|> yeah
<daubers> and on the correct channel with the TV on
<daubers> ?
<|Dreams|> lol yes
<|Dreams|> on my tv i have to add a device so i added the device as a computer on hdmi 1
<|Dreams|> click on the new computer device it loads up hdmi 1
<|Dreams|> and i get no signal
<directhex> |Dreams|, don't you have two outputs on your graphics card? it'd be enormously helpful to see the monitor panel with the hdmi plugged in
<directhex> or ssh in and use xrandr?
<|Dreams|> its onboard graphics but it has hdmi and vga
<|Dreams|> nvidia 7100 card i think i am using hte restricted drivers
<directhex> xorg.0.log would probably also be interesting
<|Dreams|> i will try again now
<|Dreams|> although my new led has a ethernet port, i was thinking would it be eaiser to just set up a media server and stream to it save sorting this problem, but is there a media server that supports 1080p straming or does it have to transcode it first?
<directhex> |Dreams|, the server doesn't care about the res.
<directhex> |Dreams|, bigger issues are bandwidth and getting a upnp server to speak the exact broken version of the protocol your tv speaks
<|Dreams|> i see
<directhex> i can stream MKV blu-ray rips to my samsung, but it's not entirely smooth due to networking
<|Dreams|> it is a gigabit network, well the tv and pc that will be streaming is gigabit and the router is gigabit so should be ok
<directhex> the tv is gigabit?
<|Dreams|> think so
<|Dreams|> may be wrong one minute will have a look
<directhex> sincerely doubt it
<daubers> I want a telle with 10GbE on it, so I can play back uncompressed 10bit :)
<directhex> daubers, with which type of SFP+?
<daubers> Pah, SFP+'s are old school! Just get an XFP to CX4 :p
<daubers> Or just plain CX4 on the back
<directhex> XFP is dead.
 * mungojerry still has an old telly
<directhex> i got a new telly for xmas. it's in three dees
<mungojerry> my telly's in 3d..if you mean that it's rather deep and only just fits in the alcove
<daubers> directhex: digital, dynamic, d............ead pixels?
<mungojerry> height/width/depth
<daubers> Or, height/width/smell :)
<directhex> daubers, i don't think i have any dead pixels. none i've noticed
<daubers> My telle is 3d by default as it has an x,y and shows miving images, so moves in time
<daubers> I'm waiting till I can afford a new PC with a 3D monitor, just so I can have a whizzy 3D UI
 * mungojerry reads the popey /mpt twitter discussion with raised eyebrows
<popey> hmm?
<mungojerry> popey: i think he needs a new shovel as well as laptop..the digging isn't helping
<mungojerry> the problem with working at canonical is that the whole community gets to tell you if you screw up. whereas at my workplace it only affects my company
<popey> digging?
<mungojerry> popey: well he admitted that he hadn't looked at unity and is trying to dig himself out of a hole by saying that he had problems with his laptop
<mungojerry> but didn't seem to try very hard
 * popey shrugs
<mungojerry> the rest of us install it out of enthusiam...some people should be installing out of necessity
<mungojerry> ironically, this is one of the worst PR issues of late,  in my book
<popey> nahhh
<mungojerry> those conversations should probably have been kept in-house
<popey> this is nothing compared to bansheegate or canonignomeappindicatorgate
<BigRedS> I almost completely missed both those gates
<BigRedS> just sort of heard of them in passign afterwards
<mungojerry> well, those were stirred up by trolls on *planet
<shauno> is there's a huge difference between pecking on *planet and on a ML?
<mungojerry> i don't know the number of eyes
<mungojerry> i only read the RSS feeds and let the blogs/planets tell me what's happening
<mungojerry> though if the trolling on gnomeplanet continues i'll probably give it a miss
<shauno> p.g.o used to be pretty neat.  was about the only place I'd hear about what the fe#@!a camp were up to
 * mungojerry used to be a fedora user
<popey> i used fedora for an hour
<popey> didnt like it
<mungojerry> used redhat + fedora from 1999 until 2005
<directhex> fedora is dumb
<directhex> let me explain how fedora is dumb. if you do a CD install, then the default desktop is not on the first or 1+2 CD. it's spread out. and you even end up re-inserting the same CD more than once
<mungojerry> the thing that made me switch to ubuntu was the depdendency problems in compiling a particular package
<directhex> this may no longer be true, but it was last time i tried fedora
<shauno> and this is why I censor myself ;)
<mungojerry> btw does anyone know of the best way i can inventorize my dvd collection using ubuntu and/or android phone
<shauno> but last I paid attention, RH were still a fairly major contributor to gnome.  so was nice to hear some news from that camp, at least
<mungojerry> was thinking maybe barcode reader + cool software to computerize my colleciton
<directhex> RH are institutionally a big gnome contributor
<directhex> ultimately, i don't care, i just hack on my little piece of the world
<ali1234> wait, what happened now?
<popey> keep up ali1234 ! :D
<popey> psst: I have no idea
<screen-x> that would be an awesome nick
<mungojerry> Older tweets are temporarily unavailable - when have they ever been available :(
<mungojerry> maybe that feature is only available to pro users :)
<mungojerry> i'm getting lazy with my natty test box...rather than type sudo reboot, i'm typing alt-sysrq-b most of the time :S
<popey> o_O
<ali1234> ok i fgured it out :)
<popey> all caught up now ali1234 ?
<ali1234> this mpt fellow seems to actually "get it"
<popey> yup
<czajkowski> shame it takes a bug report and mail to resolve it or bring it to light
<czajkowski> when they all sit in the same office wiht one another
<mungojerry> ali1234: except for the bit about trying the software ages ago
<ali1234> mungojerry: yeah well it's not his fault that they are trying to push unity into the distro when it clearly isn't ready
<mungojerry> i'm liking the enhancements that andrea azzarone has done, i'm glad they accepted his resizing launcher patch, and his new patch is good idea too
<ali1234> the main problem is that the easiest way to get it is to install +1... does it even work on my nvidia card yet?
<ali1234> nouveau project won't even accept bug reports if you have 3d acceleration turned on
<kazade> ali1234, although if you have issues just head over to #nouveau and it'll get sorted pretty quickly
<ali1234> it will get sorted by them saying "we don't support 3d"
<kazade> ali1234, Unity should work on Nouveau now, I know that popey has had it "working"
<ali1234> last time i was there it was even written in the topic
<ali1234> unity needs 3d acceleration, therefore unity on nouveau is not supported by nouveau upstream
<mungojerry> i wonder if unity2d will end up superceding 3d
<popey> i have used it with the experimental driver
<kazade> still no podcast :(
<popey> "still"?
<popey> we dont release until tonight
<kazade> aww man
<kazade> needed something to pass the time at work
<popey> download and listen to answer me this podcast
<popey> :)
<kazade> well, aside from actually working
<popey> NSFW
<kazade> lol, NSFW?
<popey> Not Safe For Work
<popey> i.e. wear headphones
<popey> they use roood words
<mungojerry> =-O
<kazade> I know what NSFW is popey..
<kazade> <kazade> needed something to pass the time at work
<kazade> :)
<popey> I did wonder
<ali1234> go on facebook
<ali1234> that's what it is for
<mungojerry> who's to blame for the rooderies?
<popey> its all about blame with you!
<shauno> podcasts are a bit odd for nsfw.  I download on my phone, listen on my phone, there's nothing indiscreet
<mungojerry> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/royal-wedding/8385415/Kate-Middleton-marries-Prince-Harry-on-souvenir-mug.html
<shauno> it's a bit dofferent from watching goat pr0ns.  so nsfw is 'workable with a heads-up' :)
<mungojerry> doh!
<mungojerry> i found lugradio NSFM
<popey> M?
<mungojerry> mungojerry
<popey> ah
<mungojerry> more swearing than billy connolly stepping on a drawing pin
<mungojerry> found it difficult to listen to any content
<mungojerry> perhaps everyone was a bit drunk
<mungojerry> i may just have been unlucky with the episode i tried
<shauno> can't say I ever noticed that
<shauno> but then I grew up in/around sailors; it'd have to be pretty extreme to be noticable
<|Dreams|> any quality lost when usin dvi to hdmi cable?
<shauno> shouldn't be, it's digital at both ends
<mungojerry> arent' there  rules about the max resolution you can send down one of those cables, to stop bluray copying, or have i go tthe wrong idea?
<screen-x> mungojerry: hdcp..
<|Dreams|> i was wondering if sound still works through one of these cables as i thogught dvi was video only
<shauno> not sure I'd call hdcp a loss in quality.  treating your customers as criminals, maybe ;)
<mungojerry> what are the implications of hdcp
<screen-x> |Dreams|: you are correct, DVI is video only, you'll need to route sound seperately
<|Dreams|> grr
<|Dreams|> lol
<screen-x> you can get hdmi audio injectors, but they are expensive
<shauno> |Dreams|: I don't get audio via mine.  I run dvi->hdmi, then headpone socket to photo jacks
<screen-x> *at time of last research ~ages ago
<shauno> I think to 'inject' audio into hdmi it'd have to convert it to digital? so it's not going to be a $5 cable
<screen-x> shauno: yep
<shauno> my laptop has optical out for audio; wonder if they could piggy-back that somehow
<screen-x> shauno:
<screen-x> http://www.supermediastore.com/product/u/apogee-dvi-to-hdmi-converter-spdif-optical-toslink-coaxial-input-output
<shauno> I'll take that as a yes :)
<shauno> (didn't know the name for optical off-hand; just that if my headphone socket is glowing, the pin's stuck again)
<popey> !java
<lubotu3> To install a Java runtime on Ubuntu on 10.04 LTS and newer, see http://tinyurl.com/2ffg7cc -  For the Sun Java products and browser plugin, search for the sun-java6- packages in the !partner repository on Lucid (which must be enabled), or !multiverse repository on older releases.
<DJones> Interesting looking device http://www.reghardware.com/2011/03/15/preview_tablet_asus_eee_pad_slider/ and at a reasonable price, although a netbook could be bought for cheaper
<mungojerry> DJones: remember the psion 7 netbook?
<DJones> mungojerry: Yes, although I was thinking that there was a sharp device of a similar nature
<mungojerry> zaurus
<DJones> yes
<mungojerry> it looks great (the eee pad slider)
<mungojerry> except for the smashability of the screne
<DJones> i would think all tablet screens stand the same risk
<mungojerry> <troll> yeah, but aren't ipads just used in front of the telly by rich people? this one you might actually use </troll>
<DJones> Heh
<shauno> sounds like a fair use-case to me.  I find it difficult to sit thru most things on TV without checking up on my phone near-constantly
<dogmatic69> anyone unfortunate enough to know svn? trying to find a way to move a repo with checkout and push to a new server
<mungojerry> stephen fry probably has one ipad per room
<dogmatic69> like git clone <repo> git push <new-repo>
 * popey sighs
<mungojerry> lol, lots of psion comments in the el reg article
 * mungojerry used to have a psion revo 
<mchild> Where is the mysql db if I need to move that part of the file system to a new partition?
<screen-x> mchild: /var/lib/mysql
<mchild> thanks, that's the db i meant
 * BigRedS wants a 5mx again
<screen-x> BigRedS: I had a series 5, it was awesome :)
<mungojerry> didn't they have backlights? the revo lasted for ages but no backligh
<mungojerry> i still have a revo but replaced it when android came
<screen-x> series 5 had a turquoise backlight
<mungojerry> mmmm
<mungojerry> and better keyboard
<screen-x> Yeah, still havent seen a better keyboard on a mobile device
<mungojerry> i used to do my home accounts on spreadsheets on my psion
<mungojerry> does android allow google docs editing yet?
<screen-x> I wrote programs for maths coursework in opl \o/
<mungojerry> the bash shell was cool too
<mungojerry> decent company and decent  hardware
<mungojerry> backed up by great software
<BigRedS> There was an ex-Psion techy threatening to make a successor to the psion a couple of years ago
<BigRedS> but I've heard nothing about it since an article I think on the reg
<mungojerry> didn't it run win xp?
<BigRedS> I thought it was winxp or epoch? Or, at least, somethign non-windowsy as an alternative
<BigRedS> I was basically interested in a reasonable keyboard and quick bootup
<DJones> mungojerry: http://www.readwriteweb.com/cloud/2010/11/google-speeds-up-google-docs-m.php
<mungojerry> BigRedS: http://www.psixpda.com/
<mungojerry> DJones: thanks, i hope there's an app too... seems like a lot of clicks to get there. i also seem to remember that you can't edit old docs that you didn't create on android
<BigRedS> mungojerry: bah. No non-windows apparently :(
<mungojerry> BigRedS: it's also ancient now probably
<mungojerry> i think one of the prof's in the dept has one
<HazRPG> hi all :)
<BigRedS> mungojerry: they mention Ubuntu in passing, so it's probably not so daft hardwarewise.
<BigRedS> but must be x86 to do Windows, thinking about it
<mungojerry> intel atom
<mungojerry> hello HazRPG
<directhex> my camera arrived :>
<HazRPG> mungojerry: alright squire :)
<HazRPG> directhex: \o/
<screen-x> what is it directhex?
<directhex> screen-x, fujifilm w3
<screen-x> directhex: its got threedeees!
<directhex> screen-x, yes!
<mungojerry> ugh noticing some ugly behaviour in unity
<mungojerry> anyone running it wanna try replicate?
<mungojerry> nevermind i found a related bug
<HazRPG> mungojerry: heh, I'm noticing ugly behaviour in 10.10 but apparently it's a known bug :/
<shauno> I didn't notice anything I wouldn't call ugly.  not having 3daccell blows :)
<mungojerry> noticed also the long-clicking on applications in the launcher has a new functionality
<mungojerry> the downside is that long clicking anything in my launcher makes all the icons shift downwards by about 5 icon heights
<shauno> heh, never noticed that before .. nmap localhost drives irssi-proxy nuts
<screen-x> +
<screen-x> hmm mouse keyboard conflict
<shauno> who won?
<czajkowski> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/615/detail/  nice amount of people using the LD
<czajkowski> :D
<screen-x> shauno: not sure, but the keyboard got some interaction that wasn't aimed at it.
<tervo> so
<popey> czajkowski: be nice if that url didnt have a team number in it
<tervo> natty alpah3 got released
<czajkowski> popey: as in see Ubuntu-~UK ?  instead of the number
<shauno> that'd be pretty tidy (/semantic)
<popey> czajkowski: yes
<czajkowski> ok let me file a bug
<screen-x> possibly that number is an event id?
<popey> no its the team id
<screen-x> but its details of a specific event, and there any other IDs in the url
<czajkowski> done
<shauno> are you sure?
<shauno> eg; http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/652/detail/ is also -uk, but a different event (and id)
<popey> hmm
<czajkowski> https://bugs.launchpad.net/loco-directory/+bug/736208  folsk can ME to
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 736208 in loco-directory "Team name in the URL for an event would be great" [Undecided,New]
 * popey wonders if czajkowski has done her usual one line bug report or whether she's actually put detail on it
<czajkowski> :s
<dogmatic69> anyone have some recommendations for backups on ec2?
<popey> jungledisk
<dogmatic69> tx
<dogmatic69> does that do a full image thing
<dogmatic69> oh wait...
<dogmatic69> like an app -> S3
<bigcalm> Yes
 * czajkowski pokes popey 
<popey> hmm?
<bigcalm> We use it at work
<dogmatic69> https://www.jungledisk.com/ ?
<czajkowski> I have a lovely hand drawn butterfly on my desk thanks to popey daughtter
<czajkowski> *daughter
<bigcalm> Jungle disk basicly maps a bucket within S3 to a drive on your machine. It can also backup selected folders as required
<screen-x> dogmatic69: deja dup
<dogmatic69> tx screen-x
<Myrtti> ho               hum
<dogmatic69> is that gonna run on ubuntu server? it says its gnome based
<popey> yeah, ignore me
<popey> i misunderstood the requirements
<bigcalm> Myrtti: you need a smile, have you looked at any kittens recently?
<screen-x> dogmatic69: yeah its graphical.
<Myrtti> bigcalm: the last kitty I've looked at has been banished because it peed on some shoes even after the snip
<Myrtti> I've been awake for good 12 hrs today and have eaten a) breadroll b) travel sickness pill. Also the reason I've been awake from ungodly hours was canceled, as the patient had a fever.
<Azelphur> I'm getting that weird minecraft behaviour again, I'm starting to think my ISP is doing some form of throttling during the day
<screen-x> dogmatic69: there is a ppa for s3fs, I haven't tested it. https://launchpad.net/~zlj/+archive/test-daily
<Azelphur> during the day I can't sign into steam or play minecraft without 20+ seconds lag, but at night it's fine, if I tether to my phone it's also fine :S
<dogmatic69> i saw something the other day that could create backups that was even usable as a live disk
<Myrtti> I think I'll go eat the fridge. Freons from the '70s feel nommy in my tummy
<screen-x> Myrtti: how about some fruit instead?
<mungojerry> Azelphur: are you on virgin broadband?
<Azelphur> no, I'm on enta.net, they specifically claim no shaping at all which makes this even more weird
<screen-x> Azelphur: contention rather than shaping?
<mungojerry> are you actually dropping packets too Azelphur
<dogmatic69> ah, http://www.geekconnection.org/remastersys/
<dogmatic69> anyone used that?
<shauno> tried shifting the server onto a more standard port to see if it changes?
<Azelphur> mungojerry: not according to htop
<Azelphur> I get problems with youtube too, I'm just about to run a fancy test if your youtube is being throttled test
<screen-x> Azelphur: htop?
<Azelphur> whoooops, I meant mtr
<Myrtti> on this historic day, Myrtti finds out she actually does have some fruit she'd eat in her fridge.
<Azelphur> dunno why I said htop there :S
<Myrtti> wohey
<screen-x> Myrtti: \o/
<mungojerry> Myrtti: chocolate orange does not count as fruit :)
<shauno> that's usually first thing I do when I want to blame my isp.  bump it onto 443 and see if the behaviour changes
<Myrtti> I do miss UK quite often, and fruit selection at Tesco is one of those things I especially miss
<Azelphur> I'm running some glasnost tests :)
<Myrtti> mungojerry: grapes do
<DJones> mungojerry: Chocolate Raisons count as fruit though
<Myrtti> â¥ galia melon
<mungojerry> DJones: i've gone off chocolate raisins a bit since feeding raisins to my 1 yr old son
<mungojerry> he converts them into chocolate raisins
<JamesTait> mungojerry: LOL
 * DJones doesn't want to know that
<Myrtti> I've been off raisins since we got a Christmas goodie bag at school on last school day before Christmas which contained one small orange, box of raisins and a chocolate covered wafer bar
<diplo> afternoon all
<shauno> you get(/got) christmas goodie bags?
<Azelphur> Your ISP appears to rate limit your FlashVideo downloads.Â In our tests, downloads using control flows achieved up to 53 Kbps while downloads using FlashVideo achieved up to 1411 Kbps.
<Azelphur> oh dear...
<mungojerry> CRC errors on your line?
<Myrtti> shauno: yup, this was in the 80's before the economy crashed due to Soviet trade dying
<Azelphur> mungojerry: how can I tell?
<mungojerry> pile up on the information superhighway Azelphur?
<Myrtti> shauno: not sure if they still are given tho
<shauno> we got dragged off down the church for some ritual abuse, taken back to school, then told being on school property over the holiday would be trespassing
<mungojerry> Azelphur: look at your cable modem http interface
<screen-x> information superhighway, such a great term :)
<Azelphur> mungojerry: look for what?
<Myrtti> shauno: christmas pageant every year with some mandatory ritual abuse
<mungojerry> stats page should show any line quality issues
<Myrtti> oh dear, I hope I don't get sick
<mungojerry> which cable modem do you have Azelphur
<Azelphur> mungojerry: I'm not on cable I'm on DSL?
<shauno> I'm reliably informed grapes don't make you sick
<mungojerry> sorry, your DSL mdem
<shauno> (the missus has been telling me for years that eating green things won't kill me)
<Azelphur> mungojerry: I think it's a speed touch, but it's inaccessible on the network
<mungojerry> can't you visit the IP address in a web browser ?
<screen-x> shauno: they have some interesting effects if you tread on them, then put in a bottle and leave for a while
<Azelphur> I just have it set up to dial dumb via PPPoE from the router
<Azelphur> so I can visit the router, but not the modem because the web panel and all other features are off
<shauno> screen-x: to be fair, most foods would fair worse under the same conditions :)
<screen-x> shauno: yeah
<Azelphur> mungojerry: so basically it's just a dumb modem, not a router ;)
<Myrtti> shauno: SO has had the flu this week, I'm not too happy because I can't visit mum if I get sick
<shauno> reminds me, I got a nice chunk of time off coming.  I should get some more mead going
<Myrtti> although, being sick would be a good excuse of not going... I feel so guilty now
<Myrtti> mmmm mead, it is almost may day
<mungojerry> Azelphur: not sure i completely understand your setup but maybe enable firewall and plug directly to modem to check all is well..then speak to ISP
<mungojerry> maybe ISp can check modem anyway?
<Azelphur> yea, that's a nightmare to do in this house :P
<Azelphur> everyone has temper tantrums if the internet goes down for more than about 20 seconds
<screen-x> Azelphur: sounds like most workplaces
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> only this is home :P
<mungojerry> dress up as an engineer and pretend you are from the phone company
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> I dunno this glasnost test seems pretty conclusive if I'm understanding what they are saying right
<Azelphur> In our tests, downloads using control flows achieved up to 53 Kbps while downloads using FlashVideo achieved up to 1411 Kbps.
<Azelphur> I'm running the BitTorrent test now
<shauno> have you tried just calling them and asking what's changed?
<Azelphur> I'm not the account holder :(
<Myrtti> I always manage to persuade the tech help to tell me what's wrong even when I'm not the account holder
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> even if they do admit to throttling which is unlikely there's still nothing much I can do about it
<Azelphur> I'll just gnasnost, VPN and glasnost again and see what my results are
<Azelphur> then the results are pretty conclusive :P
<shauno> I'd enquire what the options are to make it go away.  if they think they're turning it into an upsell, they'll talk
<screen-x> Azelphur: last time I got throttled (for over usage) they reset the counter pretty quick when I requested my MAC
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> my dad won't switch, we're currently on 60GB/month for 6 heavy users
<Azelphur> and every month he goes around fuming at a random person he picked because they must be the person using all the bandwith because it was fine 3 months ago when we only had 2 people in the house.
 * Azelphur sighs
<directhex> parallax barrier is weird
<screen-x> directhex: does it have optilca zoom? presumably it would need motors to go more/less cross eyed as you zoom in/out?
<mungojerry> Azelphur: entanet shaping has a lot of google activity
<Azelphur> indeed
<directhex> screen-x, the zoom is limited (3x) and done more or less in-lens
<directhex> screen-x, the distance between the lenses means you can't do 3d pics closer than about 1.5m
<screen-x> directhex: are the lenses exactly parallel?
<directhex> nafaik
<Myrtti> I gave up and got a cheese butty
<screen-x> directhex: so there must be a cone point where the 3d effect is optimum
<directhex> screen-x, yeah, about 2m away
 * screen-x begins to understand
<directhex> it supports sony-style 3d, where required
<directhex> for 3d macro images
<directhex> sony-style meaning "take one picture, move camera by hand a few cm to the right, take second picture"
<screen-x> heh
<shauno> hey, my camera can do that!
<Myrtti> GRRROUR
<Myrtti> revenge!
 * Myrtti has ordered the house elf who just arrived to cook due to being late
<shauno> eek?
<screen-x> Myrtti: have you got a spare house elf?
<sirgad> Hi. Problem installing Ubuntu to Parallels 4 on OS X 10.6.6. Â Boots from Ubuntu iso with error message "(initramfs) unable to find a medium containing a live file system". Â ISO passes MD5 checksum. Â Any ideas?
<Myrtti> screen-x: yeah, it flies from UK once in a while to visit
<bigcalm> People have had to make do: how easy is it to transition from a GB to US keyboard layout?
<shauno> you get used to it
<bigcalm> I don't know how well though. My laptop will still be a GB layout
<shauno> I find it much easier if the keyboards are physically different.  it just becomes part of the difference typing on them
<shauno> eg, I have 'chicklet' keys at home and typewriter keys at work.  so there's a mental jump between the two, and @ being on the wrong GRRRing button gets swept into that mental jump
<screen-x> sirgad: can you choose the type of cd drive that parallels is emulating? if so try a different type
<sirgad> thanks screen-x, i'll look into it now.
<shauno> sirgad: I'd also check OSX hasn't mounted the iso (as it's apt to do if you just downloaded it in safari)
<sirgad> that's not an issue here, i disable that in Safari, but thanks.
<shauno> (I believe it's crazy enough to mount them read/write, which would stop parallels getting a lock on it)
<Azelphur> yup, my ISP is throttling
<Azelphur> pretty conclusive test
<Azelphur> minecraft with ssh tunnel = perfect
<Azelphur> minecraft without ssh tunnel = 20+ seconds lag
<sirgad> screen-x: it's currently set to IDE optical drive emulation. Shall I try SCSI? no SATA.
<screen-x> sirgad: try all the options..
<screen-x> Any tips for phone interview tomorrow?
<sirgad> screen-x: Parallels doesn't seem to allow booting from a SCSI virtual optical drive :/
<Azelphur> yea, pretty safe to assume that enta.net are liars now imo
<sirgad> Trying now with a re-assigned â¦ ah, no, it's failing with the same error.
<shauno> screen-x: eat, decaff, chill :)
<screen-x> sirgad: :( I'm afraid I don't have any more suggestions as I havent used parallels.
<screen-x> shauno: :)
<mungojerry> Azelphur: i'm surprised entanet said they weren't throttling, did they tell u that?
<Azelphur> they say they don't shape, but I can't access WoW, Steam or Minecraft during the day and glasnost tests says they are throttling
<Azelphur> *sigh*
<shauno> I'll be able to poke at parallels when I get home in a couple of hours
<sirgad> you reckon it's a parallels issue then, not ubuntu? fair enough, i'll pursue this on their forums. Ta.
<Azelphur> mungojerry: yup when I signed up it had big signs saying NO SHAPING
<mungojerry> lol
<Azelphur> in capitol letters :(
<mungojerry> the items i'm reading about are from 2009
<ali1234> capital
<screen-x> Azelphur: screenshot or it didnt happen (way back machine may help here..)
<Azelphur> lol that was a good 4 years ago
<shauno> that's not too way back for waaayback :)
<mungojerry> http://www.reviewcentre.com/reviews130895.html: Started out at 1.5MBs (that's very good for this area), and gradually  decreased to 12KBs over the period of one month. No line fault - it was  Entanet throttling the connection.
<ali1234> they have 24/7 UK support right? so just keep ringing them and complaining
<Azelphur> haha
<shauno> oh good lord.  web.archive.org is on our new nannyfilter too.  nerdrage!
<mungojerry> Azelphur: t&cs have no mention of NOT throttling..
<ali1234> you can contact their tech support on voip for free apparently
<Azelphur> mungojerry: it's just more ammo for me trying to get us switched off this ridiculous ISP :p
<ali1234> besides "no throttling" would pretty much cause the problem you are seeing, not fix it
<Azelphur> the speeds are crap, the bandwith allowance is crap, and they throttle, and they have a FUP
<mungojerry> If Entanet determines that excessive bandwidth or disk space utilisation  is adversely affecting Entanet's ability to provide service, Entanet  may take immediate action. Entanet will attempt to notify the account  owner by e-mail as soon as possible.
<ali1234> also it was "no shaping" not "no throttling" right?
<Azelphur> and my dad refuses to switch in case the ISP we switch to has any of the above :D
<Azelphur> ali1234: think it might have been no throttling actually
 * daubers drinks moar coffee
<ali1234> so just hammer it until they kick you off, problem solved
<mungojerry> find out the big bandwidth user in your house
<Azelphur> I get very tempted to, but when we get close to the limit my dad sends my mum up to tell me that if I don't stop they'll cut my electricity off \o/
<mungojerry> Azelphur: so it's YOU then..:P
<Azelphur> mungojerry: haha, it's actually nobody, I got per-user running on the router and found that everyone was using more than 3x of their fair share
<mungojerry> nobody=everybody
<Azelphur> showed it to my mum, next week they wrote a letter to the lodger telling him if he didn't use less internet they was going to cut him off :D
<ali1234> i think you and the lodger should write a letter back saying "do it"
<mungojerry> sounds like your mum should work for entanet
<ali1234> then get your own internet
<Azelphur> ali1234: that's what I've been trying to do :D
<ali1234> and when they ask you to fix their computers next time, charge then Â£50/hour
<mungojerry> get friendly with the neighbour
<mungojerry> or, find a really good ISP deal
<mungojerry> dads never refuse a bargain
<mungojerry> i'm a dad too
<Azelphur> ali1234: the other day my mum even had the cheek to say she was going to steal _MY_ router, lock me out of it, and not allow me to have any internet
<Azelphur> I just told her if she did that I'd DoS the house and make all the bandwith go in a day :)
<ali1234> Azelphur: ok your mum is nuts, time to move out
<shauno> protip.  3g dongle.
<Azelphur> yup, working on the moving out thing :D
<shauno> being grounded will never be the same again
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> I'm actually 20 and pay rent ironically, I really do need to move out :p
<mungojerry> i struggle to use more than a few gig a month
<shauno> I used to have that situation with me ma.  grounded .. he sits in his room 'n plays with his computers.  not grounded .. he sits in his room and plays with his computers.  remove the computers?  you'll have to get past the rabid nerd!
<brobostigon> afternoonings everyone.
<Azelphur> mungojerry: that's pretty much what we're using, 60GB isn't a lot to go between 5 people
<mungojerry> it's more than browsing though
<directhex> 60GB is nothing. i can use that in a day
<mungojerry> maybe you should perform your own shaping on bittorrent traffic
<directhex> legally.
<Azelphur> indeed, I could too
<ali1234> directhex: how?
<Azelphur> mungojerry: I don't torrent at all unless it's off peak (offpeak is unmetered)
<mungojerry> yeah, i just mirrored the scientificlinux v6 mirror 22Gb...arrived in 15mins
<directhex> let's give a concrete example. install Grand Theft Auto 4 from Stream, that's 12gb
<Azelphur> the majority of the bandwith goes on games, video streaming
<directhex> then the expansions, that's an extra 12GB
<Azelphur> directhex: haha :D
<ali1234> oh, steam
<Azelphur> directhex: or "play wow"
<directhex> now, install the MMO of your choice
<directhex> ah, see?
<Azelphur> yup
<ali1234> is there any way you can use it legally without buying stuff?
<shauno> wow's client was a good 10Gb worth last I looked
<shauno> with their new 'streaming client' so the whole whack is delivered via bittorrent, it's a fun way to find out your isp don't like you
 * mungojerry is thinking his ISP should send him a bonus as he's a low data user
<Azelphur> WoW + Expansions comes to 23.7GB to me
<directhex> Azelphur, on disk, or installer downloads?
<ali1234> gta4 might be 24GB but it also costs Â£24
<Azelphur> directhex: on disk
<directhex> ali1234, i already bought it at xmas
<directhex> Azelphur, i guess about 10gb of download, then. LOTRO is 10gb.
<ali1234> if you can afford to spend Â£60/day on PC games you can afford a better internet package too
<popey> what he said
<directhex> i think age of conan is bigger than that
<directhex> ali1234, you know you can re-download games you buy, right? my steam account has games in it i bought in 2006
<shauno> you buy a game once tho.
<shauno> 24 quid at christmas vs 60*12 ..
<ali1234> so you redownload GTA4 twice every day just to annoy your ISP?
<shauno> I blow my steam folder away whenever my disk space looks sketchy
<Azelphur> ali1234: no, but if you buy one game a month and you play the existing ones and download the huge 1GB patches that come out and expansions and...
<shauno> simply because I know it's a decent chunk of disk that'll come back when I ask for it
<Azelphur> it all adds up very quickly
<ali1234> right
<ali1234> i am not disputing that
<directhex> ali1234, not every day. but easily once in a single day.
<ali1234> i am disputing that a reasonable person can legitimately use 60GB of bandwidth a day without spending Â£60 a day buying online content
<ali1234> sure, anyone can do it once :)
<shauno> no-one said daily :)
<ali1234> doing it once doesn't matter
<ali1234> nothing bad going to happen to you
<ali1234> at worst you'll be throttled for the rest of the month. big deal
<mungojerry> reminded of a line in spooks that he saw last night: "what's going to happen to me?" "bad things"
<ali1234> since you'll have already downloaded enough to keep you entertained for at least that long
<shauno> surprised no-one's added 'seed an ubuntu release' to that.  I left that running longer than I intended on my vps once :/
<ali1234> i seed the ubuntu CDs on ADSL
<ali1234> i see about 5 GB of uploads in the first month, and then it tails off
<mungojerry> supposed to be off for drinks @ liv st now
<directhex> i'm looking at bt infinity... 7.5mbit upstream predicted
<Daviey> 'predicted'
<directhex> Daviey, based on line length, versus maximum
<shauno> I'd hazard a guess that seeding on 100mbit up vs residential up is a rather significant difference
<Daviey> most likely with a fair usage cap of 0.1mbit 95th percentile
<directhex> Daviey, the 300gb fair usage cap was axed a fortnight ago
<ali1234> if there was a internet package with guaranteed 0.1mbit up/down i would get it
<ali1234> if it was same price as regular broadband that is
<directhex> ...dual bonded isdn?
<ali1234> ... is not the same price as regular broadband
<Daviey> ali1234, create a local mirror of the ubuntu archive, then debian archive... that eats bandwidth... :)
<ali1234> it does not use 60GB per day every day
<Daviey> I did find that disk writes were too slow, so i started using /dev/null... writes were REALLY fast!
<shauno> that's just silly.  you can cache apt without needing the whole debian pool local
<Daviey> shauno, and doing package inspection?
<shauno> debian's the closest thing linux has to netbsd.  if you just mirror the whole lot, you're going to have a good number of arch you'll never look at
<shauno> seems pool is up to 500Gb now.  personally, yes I would have second thoughts about pulling that locally without a very fine reason
<bigcalm> Just noticed that my bytemark host is running 9.04. What are the chances of distupgrade killing the vm?
<shauno> are they using a stock kernel?
<bigcalm> 2.6.32.23-kvm-i386-20100923
<shauno> that looks like it's one of theirs; I'd ask them before trying :)
<shauno> (I tend to assume if stock worked, the next stock would work too; and if stock worked, they wouldn't go to the effort of custom.  so assume there's a reason there's a custom kernel)
<BigRedS> bigcalm: none of mine (debian) ever broke
<BigRedS> they don't upgrade the box for you, but they put their kernels in their mirrors
<BigRedS> IIRC apt comes preconfigured to not break your kernel by downloading stock ones
<bigcalm> Cool
<bigcalm> Ta for the info
<bigcalm> https://forum.bytemark.co.uk/comments.php?DiscussionID=1896
 * bigcalm hopes that it stays true for later releases
<shauno> stackexchange is rather annoying when you put a lot of work into an answer, and it goes completely unnoticed.  bleh.
<bigcalm> I think I've just locked myself out of my admin serial console
 * bigcalm grumbles and does something else
<Myrtti> wohey, my house elf and I have tom yum gai cooking again
<Myrtti> although I wish it were done already
<MartijnVdS> Yao guai cooking?
<morleypotter> Hi Guys, any tips on the best seamless virtualization package, I've just tried vmware player and very impressed but i'm having window issues so i'm on the hunt for something else.
<MartijnVdS> \o everyone
<brobostigon> noswaith dda MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> happy Welsh to you too ;)
<popey> hah
<MartijnVdS> ooh, Bob Ross on TV
<Taurus_> Hello
<brobostigon> noswaith dda Taurus_
<MartijnVdS> What's everyone doing tonight?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: trying to playwith wayland on natty, and you?
<MartijnVdS> Watching some TV
<MartijnVdS> recovering from my run :)
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: andfailing, as icant see a wayto run it standalone. andnot with inside a silly window.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: maybe in a vm? maybe it's not "done enough" yet?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: maybe, but i might try and install it ontop of my cli natty, as its onlychoice is to run on its own.
<popey> blimey
<popey> wayland
<popey> why not just y'know, run natty and file bugs and stuff
<ali1234> popey: i see a question from askubuntu on the front page of stackexchange.com so i guess it really is just like the other subdomains, but reskinned
<MartijnVdS> popey: you mean natty has bugs?!?!
<popey> just found another
<popey> what determines the window placement on the screen?
<popey> compiz?
<MartijnVdS> popey: I think so
 * popey files a compiz bug
<MartijnVdS> hinted by the app
<MartijnVdS> but wm decides
<popey> also
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/user/popeydc#p/a/u/0/6dlnt0uqGBo
<MartijnVdS> hasn't twinview always been horrible?
<MartijnVdS> re: placement
<ali1234> historically yes
<ali1234> it's not so bad these days
<ali1234> except for fullscreen flash ofc
<MartijnVdS> popey: that's an Nvidia driver bug, or a config fail, I think
<MartijnVdS> it would be if you were using xrandr -- you can configure gaps between screens using xrandr
<ali1234> that's misconfiguration :)
<brobostigon> popey: iwas just being curious, justwanted to see.
<ali1234> popey: show your xorg.conf or a screenshot of whatever tool you used to configure monitors :)
<ali1234> ah i see your xorg.conf
<ali1234> but it does not show the screen res of each monitor
<ali1234> well my suspicion is that CRT-0 isnt actually running at 1680xwhatever
<ali1234> so i would do a screenshot of the full desktop and measure the number of pixels on each display
<ali1234> also have a window over the two displays when you take the screenshot :)
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/Screenshot-3.png
<popey> in that screenshot I can't see the first two window buttons
<ali1234> aaaaah
<popey> i cant see the w of wopr
<ali1234> 3360 = 1680x2
<ali1234> but your rightmost monitor is running at some other resolution
<popey> onemo
<ali1234> possibly because of this: ModeLine     "1280x720R" 63.75 1280 1328 1360 1440 720 723 728 741 +hsync -vsync
<popey> i have changed res with the nvidia thing
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/Screenshot-4.png
<ali1234> click on the CRT-1 and screenshot again please :)
<popey> 5
<ali1234> also does your monitor have a menu where it can show the current screen mode? check that...
<popey> they are both in auto mode
<popey> ah fixed
<ali1234> is should still be able to tell you the screen mode in use
<popey> re-did auto on screen 2
<popey> ta :)
<ali1234> ah the thing that shifts the picture around?
<popey> must have been ever so slightly stretched
<popey> yes
<ali1234> yeah that would do it too :)
<popey> wiggled a bit and now its fine
<popey> :)
<popey> thanks, feel silly now, sure I tried that
<ali1234> yeah that can happen when they update the driver and it changes the refresh rates slightly
<popey> you are too kind
<brobostigon> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc5ybkhb7sI&feature=player_embedded deadfunny.
<popey> oh dear
<brobostigon> yeah,
<shauno> I gotta say popey's video was funny.  while he's not quite sure if describing the gap (in the picture) while staring at the (physical) gap makes sense
<popey> i have another i need to make
 * popey makes said video
 * popey files bug 736363
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 736363 in compiz (Ubuntu) "New Windows on an empty desktop appear over launcher" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/736363
<popey> nice number
<kirrus> BigRedS: ping
<shauno> can't decide whether this level of boredom calls for TV or bed.  either's a bit extreme at 8pm
<directhex> play games until 2am.
<directhex> like a boss
<shauno> work at 6 :(
<shauno> (soaking up the bank holiday pay.  my paddy's day is 12hr shift + 12hr oncall)
<brobostigon> would it be possible to do multi-monitor, with two graphics cards, of totally different kinds and makes?
<directhex> brobostigon, yes, but it's a pain to configure
<directhex> and you won't get 3d if you're mixing Free, fglrx and nvidia-glx drivers, as they all use their own libGL.so
<brobostigon> directhex: elaborate please.
<brobostigon> directhex: so iwould have to stick with the samedriver type?
<directhex> brobostigon, for 3d, yes
 * TheOpenSourcerer is ready to stop staring at computer screens for a while... Had a good day though. A customer's customer's new website went live, have migrated a new customer's CRM to our managed hosted platform and worked on a couple of new projects and chased several new leads. Phew. 
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, today i discovered redmine, and how superior it is to trac
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh - was redmine the ruby one?
<TheOpenSourcerer> A PITA to install IIRC but a good UX
<brobostigon> directhex: do two nvidia,etc?
<brobostigon> so*
<directhex> brobostigon, yeah, that's fine
<TheOpenSourcerer> I think directhex we got a lead for your company (collabara?) from OpenERP the other day.
<brobostigon> directhex: would only nvidia work? or others aswell?
<directhex> brobostigon, well, anything as long as you aren't mixing fglrx, nvidia-glx, and open-source drivers
<brobostigon> directhex: ithinki understand, thank you, :)
<bigcalm> After your package information was updated the essential package
<bigcalm> 'ubuntu-minimal' can not be found anymore.
<bigcalm> :'(
<bicyclerepairman> ey up. I come from gentoo.
<bicyclerepairman> I wanted to compile something just now but the header files weren't there
<bicyclerepairman> is that normal under ubuntu?
<ali1234> yes
<MartijnVdS> bicyclerepairman: yes. Usually, you install software from packages
<bicyclerepairman> where should I get those header files from?
<MartijnVdS> and if you really really need to compile something, you need to install the development bits (headers, etc.) separately
<MartijnVdS> check out the libfoo-dev packages
<MartijnVdS> but usually you don't want to compile stuff
<MartijnVdS> unless it's your own software :)
<ali1234> or if you need to fix bugs
<bicyclerepairman> well I'm trying some examples out from a curses tutorial :-)
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: or that
<ali1234> why curses anyway?
<directhex> bicyclerepairman, something like libncurses-dev
<directhex> libncursesw5-dev
<bicyclerepairman> ah thanks a lot :-)
<bicyclerepairman> ali1234, just learning :-)
<bigcalm> The list of proposed changes is:
<bigcalm> Changing shell of www-data from /bin/bash to /bin/sh
<bigcalm> Is there any advantage to www-data using sh instead of bash?
<ali1234> it brings it in line with all the other system users
<bigcalm> It's annoying if I do sudo su - www-data
<ali1234> don't do it then
<bigcalm> Heh
<directhex> www-data should use /bin/false :p
<bigcalm> It should, aye
<bigcalm> Upgrading from 9.10 to 10.04 on my bytemark host, have this diff: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/581318/
<bigcalm> I have no idea what it does so don't know if it's specific to the Bytemark VM setup or not. Any hints?
<popey> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2011/03/16/s04e02-stranger-in-a-strange-land/
<zleap> i am just grabbing it now, i just remembered  thanks though
<czajkowski> LOL
<bigcalm> Finally got my bytemark vm up to 10.04. I can go to sleep now
<screen-x> bigcalm: sleep well :)
<hamitron> :)
 * screen-x is downloading debian lenny, will install it in a vm, then test how well the upgrade to squeeze works. 
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ubuntu UK Podcast] S04E02  Stranger in a Strange Land - http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2011/03/16/s04e02-stranger-in-a-strange-land/
<shauno> ooh, that's a bit ouch.  surely if you have to explain who rms is, you've already answered the question
<hamitron> ah ffs
<shauno> oops?
<hamitron> 2 days since I fixed my sisters laptop, and it already has bad messages popping up
<popey> :) shauno
<shauno> sorry, missed the other night because I have absolutely no concept of time
<shauno> so there's a mild delay factored in there :)
<shauno> I did that on tuesday too.  was meaning to head out to something at the local hackerspace at 7pm.  started getting ready about midnight, and then figured out it was dark
<hamitron> appears to be communicating a lot with a comp in Beijing
<hamitron> :/
<directhex> haxed.
<directhex> i say burn it
<shauno> I've always figured rms has to take everything to extremes; someone has to.  it's very easy to define the completely closed end of the spectrum; we need someone at the other end of the spectrum to define everything in between
<hamitron> I've unplugged her cable
<hamitron> ;)
<shauno> it's not going to be tasty - extremists never are
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
<hamitron> cya bro
<brobostigon> good night hamitron
<hamitron> I think I am in the mood for messing with the stupid nip
<hamitron> well, not technically one I suppose
<hamitron> but similar ;/
<shauno> and a good chance they're not even chinese, but using it as a convenient 'bounce' thru which it's difficult to get any information at all
<shauno> apparently most the major groups doing this are russian
<directhex> 33% of chinese run IE6. no wonder thay have so many zombie pcs
<shauno> most the time it's just a convenient screen to hide behind, because US laws result in absolutely nothing there
<hamitron> well still gonna take my frustration out on someone
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> although feeling better now I got cake and coffee
<hamitron> :)
<shauno> heh, sorted
<shauno> so, I guess the dirty question is: are you going to give her windows again and expect the same thing not to happen again?
<hamitron> gonna give her winblows again and turn to religion, hopefully increasing the chances it won't happen
<shauno> oh well
<shauno> oft quoted; Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
<hamitron> she has some interactive online things for college that requires IE
<shauno> :/
<hamitron> she finishes this year, so will see then
<shauno> kinda glad we still did everything with stacks of paper at college
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> I would make students use paper
<hamitron> :)
<shauno> lol, not a 'get of my lawn thing'
<shauno> just at the time I was using RH5 for everything but tpascal.
<hamitron> I'd make them hand write coursework, purely to make them check spelling and grammer manually
<shauno> the more they try to shift it online, the more they seem to get wrong
<hamitron> yeh :/
#ubuntu-uk 2011-03-17
<hamitron> I am just hoping nothing has happened to other comps on this network
<hamitron> :(
<hamitron> not in the mood for major hassle
<dwatkins> hamitron: does it have malware bytes, threatfire and avg?
<hamitron> it has AVG and something else
<hamitron> came with the packard bell software
<hamitron> tempted to slam MS Security Essentials on next time
<popey> thats what I run on my XP VM
<hamitron> I've read it is good
<hamitron> and it seems reasonably light
<directhex> hamitron, i have a simple rule: i'll support windows if the software stack i install post-format isn't adjusted
<shauno> out of the blue; I think it'd be better not to have "that tick-box" at all.  it should offer to install if/when it's required  (and so should the samba preference thingie)
<directhex> and no support for dumb idiots
<hamitron> directhex: hhaha
<hamitron> it is hard with family :/
<directhex> any email or IM infection is unsupported
<popey> shauno: i tend to agree
<directhex> to regain support, it's format time
<directhex> hamitron, they'll never learn if you keep wiping their bums
<shauno> I find family easier, because I can be just as demanding as they can :)
<hamitron> directhex: best bit is, she is not sure she kept the recovery media I burnt for her when she got the thing
<directhex> hamitron, then wipe the disk, and give her a link to the microsoft store
<directhex> it's only Â£150 for windows!
<hamitron> hehe
<hamitron> can i use windows 7 retail dvd for oem install?
<directhex> no
<hamitron> fs :/
<directhex> well... perhaps
<directhex> technically i think you can, but not for OEM licenses from major manufacturers
<directhex> only OEM licenses you buy yourself from places like scan
<hamitron> I don't mind having to buy something, but the worry of what hoops I must jump through annoys me
<directhex> buy online, burn iso!
<HazRPG> Woo!
<HazRPG> New rack
<HazRPG> :)
<HazRPG> also, hi all :)
<shauno> ?
<HazRPG> shauno: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Ogr7XDAuntqcOkEtcg5WYQ?feat=directlink
<shauno> that's not a rack!
<HazRPG> shauno: its not the type of rack you were expecting... no lol
<HazRPG> hmm, I should really figure out how to change that avatar on that...
<HazRPG> that's my ex-missus
<HazRPG> that's on that
 * shauno goes back
<shauno> I'm such a crap stalker.  didn't even notice that was there
<directhex> i should take some photos with my amazing new futuristic camera of the future!
<HazRPG> directhex: you should!
<HazRPG> shauno: heh, wouldn't bother me normally - but it's a picture of both me and her, and since me and her don't exist anymore... sort of inappropriate
<HazRPG> esp. since she dumped me in 2009 lol
<hamitron> too much ubuntu and irc?.... ;)
<HazRPG> barely use my web picasa :P
<HazRPG> find it odd how my google avatar, isn't the same as my picasa avatar - I always assumed it was
<hamitron> anyone here use a 20 pin PSU with 24 pin motherboards?
<HazRPG> considering they're both google...
<HazRPG> hamitron: I have, didn't work lol
<hamitron> unstable?
<HazRPG> pretty much
<hamitron> k, my motherboard manuals say I can
<HazRPG> with the system bare... it sort of worked, but after it passes POST it just sort of doesn't know what to do - guessing from the lack of power
<hamitron> but it is either that, or faulty
<HazRPG> heh, mine said it had to be 24 pin...
<hamitron> time for a bodge job then
<HazRPG> so if yours says it can work with 20 instead of 24... it might be ok :)
<hamitron> they boot
<hamitron> and work ok
<hamitron> but then freeze
<dwatkins> sounds like the psu isn't delivering enough power
<dwatkins> or that there are extra volt lines in the additional 4 pins which aren't suplied
<HazRPG> yeah, that's what mine did when I was using just 20 instead of 24
<dwatkins> I've had PSUs with a detachable extra 4-pin section on the motherboard connector
<hamitron> I have a blown up PSU with a 24 pin connector....
<shauno> a bit slow because it needed a little trimming, but http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23042/arack.jpg  is the rack they dumped on my desk at work :(
<hamitron> may have to use that on this psu
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> adapter on ebay is only few quid
<shauno> not in a closet.  right close enough to keep me toes toasty
<hamitron> but I'd have to wait for it to arrive
<HazRPG> shauno: heh, pretty big considering it was just dump there...
<HazRPG> even plugged it in and everything!
<hamitron> :)
<shauno> I've tried to move it .. I'm too little
<dwatkins> I'd like a mini rack to put on my desk.
<HazRPG> shauno: is that your desk that's next to it?
<HazRPG> also... little?
<shauno> little .. it's got a 20k ups in it.  it's not light
<HazRPG> my odds of guess work says that things about 2 to 2.5 metres
<HazRPG> shauno: ah, so when you say little you mean your not Arnold when it comes to muscles
<shauno> bingo
<HazRPG> you like using that word don't you :P
<shauno> I'm not a midget, but I am a very stereotypical scrawny, pasty-faced nerd
<HazRPG> same
<HazRPG> *raises drink to that*
<shauno> another out of the blue; yes, the release names are getting daft.  I had to resort to the oed app on my phone to learn how to pronounce eric thingie
<hamitron> what is the 6 pin connector on the psu?
<HazRPG> GPU usually
<directhex> 6-pin is for low-end GPUs
<HazRPG> mainly for power-hungry graphics cards
<hamitron> 1x6 pins
<directhex> it's a 75W power connector
<directhex> low-end
<HazRPG> directhex: low-end?
<hamitron> isn't gpu 2x3?
<directhex> HazRPG, well, there's the 6+2 pin version for hungrier cards
<directhex> hamitron, wait, you have a 1x6 connector? white plug?
<HazRPG> directhex: ah, that's probably the one I'm thinking of
<directhex> sounds like a P6. that's OLD.
<HazRPG> hamitron: must be for floppies
<shauno> floppy is 4 pin
<directhex> HazRPG, and meaty cards use 2 of them, either a 6+2 and a 6, or two 6+2
<shauno> 2x3 is the pci-e "moar juice plz"
<hamitron> for old P4 motherboard
<hamitron> "6-pin AUX connector"
<HazRPG> heh, haven't seen any that really needed more than 6+2's
<directhex> hamitron, two orange wires in it?
<hamitron> yeh
<directhex> yeah, sounds like AUX... but i've never seen it used
<hamitron> if I cut that off, just need a source a 12V
<directhex> perhaps for the old socket 423 p4's?
<hamitron> for the 20 to 24 pin conversion
<hamitron> @_
<HazRPG> correct me if I'm wrong, but I think some 5" card reader bays use those 6 pins too
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> well
<hamitron> I'll cut it off, can't always put it back on later
<shauno> ty google overlords; http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/cputopiaonline/mp3atx40.jpg
<hamitron> can*
<directhex> HazRPG, never seen that. card readers usually use floppy connector
<shauno> I've never had a card reader that needed anything more than fw & usb headers
<directhex> or that, sure. i hate it when they use up a usb header on the mobo through, i end up with some dead usb ports on the case
<HazRPG> shauno, directhex: that's why these are useful: http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=338
<shauno> nah.  you just buy mobo with a stupid amount of headers
<shauno> having a cable coming out of an internal bay and into an external plug is just messy
<HazRPG> heh, my sister had a case that had 3.5mm jacks for audio that you had to loop round to the back from the inside
<directhex> i saw that on some school pcs in the 90s
<HazRPG> even came with a metal strip for feeding the wire through
<shauno> I'm just gonna drop an a-bomb and say I'm glad apple think about that before they build the machine :p
<HazRPG> shauno: heh, it's the reason I always build my machines with expansion in mind
<hamitron> apple bomb? :(
<shauno> (yes, I'm aware that just ends up meaning you have 2 usb plugs and you like it.)
<shauno> HazRPG: I don't.  I buy machines with resale in mind
<shauno> I don't plan a purchase around something I'd want to use in 3 years time.  I plan a purchase around something I'll be able to get rid of in 3 years time
<hamitron> I buy mine with the price in mind....
<hamitron> and hoard them all for many years
<hamitron> :)
<shauno> I think it's still keeping price in mind, it's just the new car vs old car thing
<hamitron> new car all the way!
<hamitron> ;D
<HazRPG> lol
<hamitron> unless you go classic ofc
<HazRPG> shauno: ah, see I was talking about the case :P
<shauno> apple laptops do resell well.  stupidly well.  I've seen mbp sell for more in "spares and repairs" condition than a working laptop should be worth
<HazRPG> my case can hold up to 5 CD/DVD/etc drives, and 2 floppy drives
<HazRPG> it can also hold up to 6 hard drives
<shauno> so it means half - 2/3 of my next laptop is paid for
<hamitron> I was too tight to get a dvd drive for my last build :/
<hamitron> got a 2nd hand case with not enough blanking plates, so they don't all line up
<HazRPG> has two huge fans, plus space for another 1 (or 2 small ones)
<hamitron> fans? ;)
<HazRPG> yeah
<hamitron> is it right my i3 idles at 9 C?
<HazRPG> hmm, should be more like 20'C
<HazRPG> but I could be wrong
<hamitron> cooler than my c2d
<hamitron> it idles around 14
<directhex> it's not at 9C
<directhex> it's not possible for it to be lower than room temperature
<shauno> I never did figure out what to put in my dvd bay, after someone's darling fork() discovered the slot-loader would still spin a disk up with a surprising amount of coinage in there
<hamitron> it is prob about room temp at a guess
<directhex> your room isn't at 9Â°C
<hamitron> 1 sec
<hamitron> around 10C
<hamitron> give or take a few C
<shauno> but you got a stellar deal on the heating?
<hamitron> no heating
<hamitron> ;)
<HazRPG> . . . . . .
<HazRPG> I think this is where years of living in a desert has killed me
<shauno> am I wrong in thinking you're up north with the scary hairy people?
<HazRPG> I find it cold when it gets less than 20'c
<hamitron> scarey hairy? :|
<directhex> 16Â°C is the legal minimum for a work room under health & safety laws
<hamitron> what has law got to do with it?
<directhex> a cold machine room is around the 17Â°C mark
<shauno> what's law but a second-hand emotion ...
<ali1234> there is no legal requirement for minimum temperature
 * screen-x cools machine room to 20 degrees, which feels arctic in the summer
<HazRPG> I was use to room temp of about 40-50'c at one point :P
 * hamitron just has it how it is, cold in winter and warmer in summer
<hamitron> works for me
<directhex> you're putting your health at serious risk if you sit in a room which is too cold
<HazRPG> hamitron: body temp is 37'c dude... just saying
<hamitron> directhex: in what way?
<HazRPG> ~37'c*
<Azelphur> 37c for a room is way too hot :o
<ali1234> 10 degrees isn't particularly hazardous as long as you are not also starving or 80 or something
<Azelphur> I'd suffer at 37c lol
<HazRPG> since I think 36-38 is normal (could be wrong)
<Azelphur> I'm comfortable at 20ish
<hamitron> I ahve cake to keep me warm ;)
<directhex> normal for a room is ~21Â°C
<shauno> I was always told 36, but that's irrelevant to room temp.  we're warm-blooded for a reason
<Pendulum> win 41
<Pendulum> fail :(
<hamitron> I tend to get headache when temp is upto mid 20s
<hamitron> gimme lower temps any day
<HazRPG> hamitron: you'd probably suffer in saudi then :P
<hamitron> I suffer in England ;/
<HazRPG> room temp was 40-50'c if no A/C was on.
<hamitron> :\
<hamitron> I'd be useless
<ali1234> i lived in a house with no heating or hot water for 3 months in winter in manchester
<hamitron> even more so than now....
<HazRPG> A/C's would normally only cool down to about 26'c... but that would feel artic almost!
<ali1234> at the same time i worked in an office which also had no heating or hot water
<HazRPG> I use to set mine to around 28-30
<hamitron> ali1234: you are still alive?
<shauno> ditto.  40+ is nuts.  I was pretty much useless when outside temps hit 30
<ali1234> sure
 * screen-x should be in bed
<ali1234> i just drank lots of tea
<HazRPG> shauno: you slowly get use to it funnily :P
<hamitron> I ahve 4 wool jumpers on I suppose
<hamitron> that helps keep warm
<shauno> over 5 years, summer in the states knocked me out every year
<HazRPG> been back in the UK for around 8 years now... and I still haven't adjusted to the cold properly yet :/
<shauno> winter's easy.  you can wear more, you can move more.  80-90F is inhumane
<hamitron> exactly shauno :)
<shauno> I wouldn't keep home at 10Âº tho
<hamitron> parts of the house are warmer
 * HazRPG googles to find out what 80-90'F is...
<shauno> 80's about 25
<hamitron> can't heat all rooms
<shauno> 90's not going to be far off
<shauno> 10Âº would stall my yeasties
<HazRPG> that sounds wrong ...
<shauno> it's very wrong.  stalled yeasties make no alcohol!
<HazRPG> ah
<HazRPG> that kind of yeasties ;)
<hamitron> my wine is in the kitchen
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> got an aga there to keep it warm
<HazRPG> ... isn't it illegal to make your own here??
<shauno> it's bad enough that I have to give them a little immersion widget when we get snaps.  I don't want to know what'd cost to do that all winter
<directhex> more than 24Â°C is uncomfortable for most people
<ali1234> HazRPG: only distilling
<shauno> no.  illegal to sell your own.  there's probably a volume limit too
<hamitron> volume limit? :(
<shauno> (eg, I believe the US is 200 gals per adult per year.  I completely expect the UK to have something similar)
<hamitron> so 54 demi-johns is maybe bad?
<hamitron> ah, be ok then
<hamitron> :)
<shauno> it may not do, as the US can be a bit funky about alcohol.  but as a rule of thumb their law tends to be rooted in ours
<shauno> (oddly less versed in UK law because I never lived there as an adult :)
<shauno> they used to sell beer kits in boots tho, so I know it's not illegal :)
<hamitron> unlimited in the UK according to wikipedia
<HazRPG> :P
<hamitron> for personal use
<hamitron> sorted
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> I knew I was right when me and my friend were arguing it the other night... made me believe it was illegal :/
<shauno> ah, germany does the 200L thing too.  funky.
<shauno> them of all people  </stereotype>
<hamitron> they prob have a fancy long form to fill in too
<hamitron> ;)
<shauno> but yeah.  my office stays 18-20Âº so they don't crash
<hamitron> crash? :/
<HazRPG> computers play funny at too low and too high a temperature... if I recall
<HazRPG> or any electronics for that matter
<HazRPG> but unsure of the numbers
<shauno> high temps sure.  cold temps is pretty harmless
<hamitron> I had a comp that was a little unstable this winter
<hamitron> it has frost on the case
<hamitron> had*
<shauno> they should be above the dew point so you don't get a condensate risk
<shauno> past that, they'll keep themselves warm
<HazRPG> cold temps make it harder for electricity to flow through
<hamitron> best solution is never turn them off
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> my comps are my heating
<ali1234> in germany even caffeinated soft drinks are controlled
<HazRPG> wow
<hamitron> how much coffee you allowed?
<ali1234> i dunno
<shauno> I had a friend who described that as 'dark' sodas.  made it a bit confusing
<ali1234> it only applies to kids afaik
<ali1234> kids don't generally drink coffee
<hamitron> now I am even more glad we won the war
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> I'd be totally different
<shauno> ja, wurden sie
<hamitron> I'd know what that means also no doubt
<hamitron> instead I am inferier and don't
<hamitron> :/
<shauno> :)  "yes, you would"  (someone had to )
<hamitron> hehe
<shauno> one day they'll figure out how to drop google translate into our ear
<screen-x> shauno: babelfish
<shauno> I know, but AV died
<screen-x> nooo, a real google powered in ear babelfish :)
<shauno> yeah, I know
<shauno> preferred it with google because it's a little less obvious that way :)
<shauno> even if altavista did snag the primo name first
<screen-x> plus google translate works rather well
<hamitron> I just don't read anything in anything other than English
<ali1234> real time translation is impossible
<ali1234> unless, like the babel fish, it can actually read the mind of the speaker
<shauno> you can get pretty damned close tho
<ali1234> otherwise it will always have to wait until they finish speaking to get the necessary context
<shauno> like the translators you see babbling away at the UN
<shauno> I'd rather a sentence or two of lag, than be the stereotypical englishman stood there going "sorry?"
<shauno> say it again, a bit slower, and a bit more .. english?
<HazRPG> indeed
<HazRPG> any translation, is better than no translation...
<shauno> or excitedly yelling out 'si' at the end of a sentence because you remember that one :)
<hamitron> easier if everyone just spoke English
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> I never leave England anyway
<shauno> I had fantastic fun trying to buy train tickets in spain, with a total vocabulary of four words.  the name of the city I was trying to get to, 'yes', 'monkey' and 'big chicken'
<hamitron> hehe
<shauno> a translation via a 3yo with an etchasketch would have done better than I did
<hamitron> lesson to be learnt... learn the language of where you go
<shauno> (on the upside, I apparently bought first-class tickets)
<hamitron> nice :D
<shauno> didn't want first class tickets, but we got there
<hamitron> in style too ;)
<shauno> strange country tho.  I thought the highspeed trains were rather snazzy.  and proceeded to receive a telling-off for trying to take a picture of one
<directhex> TERRORIST
<shauno> tourist, but I can see how easily it's lost in translation :(
<screen-x> shauno: mono madrid pollo sÃ­ grandes, I'm not sure why they didnt understand you.
<directhex> el pollo diablo!
<shauno> see, that reads like something my brother would come up with.
<shauno> "oi, monkey!"
<shauno> an evil chicken?
<hamitron> diablo?
<shauno> polo grande is from a warlock quest in WoW :/
<directhex> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E28WrhpTzQA
<shauno> si you learnt from manuel
<shauno> and monkey is obviously the first non-curse word you want to learn in any language
<shauno> thing is, I'd love to learn a useful language.  but we don't go to the same country repeatedly.
<shauno> europe has so damned many of them, and they're all much of muchness as far as value goes
<hamitron> I wouldn't mind learning German
<shauno> dutch drives me nuts because if you can get them to talk slow enough, it almost sounds like old-school english
<shauno> and then they transcribe this to paper in a manner which completely hides this
<hamitron> come across a few engineering reports in German I wanted to read
<hamitron> anyways
<hamitron> I need sleep
<shauno> icelandic is the same.  it sounds like english, the same way rural geordie sounds like english.  and then loses it when they write it down
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> laters o/
<shauno> night
<HazRPG> nite..
<HazRPG> shauno: haha, love the 4 words you knew in spanish
<shauno> dutch is proper nuts tho.  like the word 'free', as in 'smoke-free'.  is pronounced, as near as makes no difference, as 'free'.  and then written as something like vrij, just to confuse me
<dutchie> that makes sense to me
<dutchie> not being even slightly dutch :)
<HazRPG> I can just imagine you saying "mono, mono, train to <place>... polloÂ grande!"
<shauno> haz, much less amusing than that
<shauno> I just kept repeating zaragoza, si? and adding more money until he shut up and gave me tickets
<screen-x> shauno: good tactic :)
<HazRPG> haha
<HazRPG> nice one
<shauno> it was hugely embarassing to be reduced to a drooling idiot
<HazRPG> I always make it habit to translate some phrases into my drafts on my phone (or a notepad)... and just say them out as best as I can :)
<shauno> amsterdam to paris was fantastic.  the lady at centraal spoke english better than most english I know :)
<HazRPG> see this is why I always feel bad for people who try to speak english but can't get their message across and sounding stupid at the same time... because I know what its like to be on the other end of it
<shauno> that was the first time I ever took a train across a border  (discounting scotland).  I was expecting major hassle.
<shauno> when she answered "what time?" I coulda hugged her
<HazRPG> I can speak arabic pretty well, but when trying to have a normal grown-up conversation - I must sound like a 6 year old
<HazRPG> shauno: :P
<HazRPG> I swear my family in egypt must think I'm thick as pig shit lol
<shauno> heh
<shauno> nah, "the slow one" is just a pet name
<shauno> I think what changed my mind on languages was seeing the italians
<shauno> most italians over 35-40 I came across, treat italian the same we do english.  "no, I'll speak my language and you'll learn it"
<HazRPG> they'll say something like "I just saw something on the news, it was great..." and continue to quote from the news... and all I understood from it were "government ... price ... people ... angry ... street ... money ..."
<shauno> which I found incredibly obnoxious, until I realised they were doing exactly the same to me, as we stereotypically do to foreigners
<HazRPG> to which I always say "oh that sounds interesting", and then they shout at me for agreeing with it >_<
<HazRPG> heh, yeah I know what you mean
<HazRPG> although the first thing I always do before/while there is buy a language book to at least sound like I know what they're talking about
<shauno> I don't :/
<HazRPG> best one was the tagalog book I bought
<shauno> I try to pull the language apart and figure out how it devolves back into PIE
<shauno> it keeps my brain wonderfully entertained, but makes me completely useless
<HazRPG> because it had phrases you should say, phrases they'll probably respond with, and the best way to answer those ... fantastic book!
<HazRPG> hehe :p
<shauno> (it's also the best evidence I have that finns are aliens)
<HazRPG> haha do too
<HazRPG> tell*
<HazRPG> don't know where I got too from tell >_<
<shauno> their language is just insane
<HazRPG> doesn't devolve back to PIE?
<shauno> it doesn't seem to compare to anything, at all
<shauno> most closely hungarian, but that's because they went 'n beat them around the head a few times.
<shauno> but after that .. it's a black sheep
<HazRPG> hmm, I always found some african languages amuse me... with the clicks they have
<shauno> you can atleast see that they've taken a completely different path tho
<HazRPG> true
<shauno> like most the asian languages sound somewhat similar.  european divvies up into germanic/romantic/slavic/nordic, but they all share common roots
<HazRPG> I would love to meet the first person who decided to talk words... would amuse me no ends
<shauno> african languages don't sound anymore european than asian ones.  which makes total sense
<HazRPG> I guess
<shauno> but having finnish stuck up there sounding like no other european root is insane
<shauno> if someone came up with a plausible theory that aliens put them there to keep russia out, I'd probably believe it.
<shauno> not saying it's a bad thing, just fascinating
<HazRPG> indeed
<shauno> the same way finding huge rocks in the middle of nowhere must have been before they had any theory behind glaciers at all
<HazRPG> tagalog: oo (pronounced oh-oh), means yes
<HazRPG> that confused me
<HazRPG> and hindi means no
<shauno> infact, that's a very good way to describe it.  their language feels like a boulder that's been dropped hundreds of miles from home.  but I have no idea what the glacier is analogous to
<HazRPG> and mabuti (ma-boot-tay) is: fine
<shauno> easy there tiger
<HazRPG> just some odd words I remember from my trip to the philippines
<HazRPG> every time I heard "mabuti" from lasses... I kept thinking they were saying "does my ass look big in this?"
<shauno> I'm meant to be spending 6-8 weeks in thailand at some stage in the next year or two.  dreading that from a language point of view
<HazRPG> heh
<shauno> (nowhere near a city either, so it's tough to make assumptions)
<shauno> my mandarin is pretty much limited to "excuse me, do you speak english"
<shauno> and that's the closest to any asian language I've touched at all
<HazRPG> hehe, thai sounds awesome though
<HazRPG> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WotlKEogxm4 <== this might come in handy for you
<shauno> and that's only because we've got a customer in wuhan, who tends to answer the phone with a torrent of noise
<HazRPG> apparently no, if you're a man... is "mai krab" and sounds like your saying "mine craft"
<shauno> awesome
<HazRPG> so you now know how to say no ;)
<shauno> that was a fun one.  china doesn't directly have a 'yes' and 'no'
<HazRPG> cos I'm sure that'll stick easily in your mind :P
<HazRPG> yeah I know, its random
<shauno> do you ... received I do, or I do not
<HazRPG> there's an african language, can't remember which, that doesn't have a translation for the word "depression" because they don't understand the concept of it ... which makes you really think
<shauno> very rarely a straight shi / bu shi  (yes or  not yes)
<shauno> there is no no.  there's a negative yes   lol
<HazRPG> heh, its not shocking though, in egypt and in saudi - most will respond "inshallah" which basically means "god willing" but translates more like "maybe..." in its usage
<shauno> the irish do that, sorta
<shauno> but then the english do, it's just devolved
<HazRPG> yeah I've noticed :p
<HazRPG> what the use of the word "god willing"
<HazRPG> ?*
<shauno> not that one, but I'm pretty sure that's where goodbye comes from
<ali1234> "all being well"
<shauno> 1590s, from godbwye (1570s), itself a contraction of God be with ye (late 14c.),
<ali1234> as in "i'll see you next week, all being well"
<shauno> I was thinking more directly pious
<HazRPG> language is a funny thing ain't it
<shauno> as the irish have a 'dia duit' is a format greeting, and I don't know of a non-religious equivalent
<ali1234> americans use "god willing" in exactly that way too
<ali1234> maybe not quite the same
<shauno> goodbye being 'god be with ye' immediately sounds like something that'd translate into arabic very easily
<HazRPG> we have "masalama" in egypt, which just means bye
<HazRPG> well more goodbye I guess
<HazRPG> however if you know they're muslim, then either masalama or "selam wa lakum" is used
<HazRPG> the last one means "May god grant you peace"
<HazRPG> I think...
<HazRPG> ah wait, my mistake its "Peace be upon you"
<shauno> language is funny.  and I maintain english is the funniest :)
<shauno> what's the difference between a ship and a boat?
<HazRPG> and the reply is basically "may Allah's blessings be upon you" which is "wa alaykumu s-salamu wa rahmatu l-lah wa barakatuh" or shorted as "wa alaykum wa s-salam"
<HazRPG> I find arabic is the funniest (p.s. the size?)
<shauno> or dirt and soil
<shauno> dirt's germanic and soil latin/old french, but .. why we use them both ?
<HazRPG> in arabic, "el noor atah" means that the power got cut (blackout, etc)... proper translation is "the lights been cut"
<HazRPG> dirt is generic isn't it?
<HazRPG> soil is specific
<shauno> I'd say lights cut is pretty direct from black out
<HazRPG> soil is a type of dirt, however dirt can be anything
<shauno> so ship and boat?
<HazRPG> boat is small, and ship is usually big
<shauno> they're just skip and bateau
<HazRPG> yeah but even using blackout sounds funny
<HazRPG> there isn't a proper way to say power cut or power surge in arabic I don't think
<ali1234> yacht, skiff, coracle, barge...
<shauno> barge is via greek
<HazRPG> however boat can use used as generic too, and ship is also specific now that you say those
<HazRPG> yacht, barge are types of boats...
<shauno> yacht has to be germanic, skiff I'd guess norse again
<HazRPG> not sure what the other two are  but I'd say they were boats too :P
<ali1234> skiff is germanic same as ship
<shauno> really?  most places we get a the sk- were norse
<HazRPG> easiest way to amuse an egyptian... pull them about the "el noor atah", I managed to get them laughing for hours over it
<shauno> OE ship was norse skip, so we ended up with skipper
<shauno> and kept skip for something that's still vaguely boat shaped.  but don't have a shipper in charge of a ship.  or a skipper in a skip, for that matter
<HazRPG> I thought a skip was for putting trash in :/
<shauno> believe that was also the skirt/shirt deviation when it would have originally been a gown-length tunic type deal
<shauno> shall have to figure out how exactly I'd phrase this to google to try prove I'm not nuts :)
<ali1234> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/skep
<ali1234> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/skiff
<shauno> that second link has Old English scip (âsmall craft, boatâ)
<ali1234> right
<HazRPG> noticed
<shauno> I swear it's in one of grimm's consonant shifts, but I get completely thrown off by the characters they use
<HazRPG> this is the best I could find for clothing over the years: http://blog.teacollection.com/images/history-of-childrens-clothing.jpg
<ali1234> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/shirt
<shauno> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/skipper   has From Middle Dutch scipper, from scip. Compare German Schiff, Schipp, Old Norse skip; confer ship, skiff.
<shauno> so a skep may have been a basket, but a skip was a ship
<shauno> aye, http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/skirt#English is a parallel formation from Old Norse
<ali1234> same thing
<shauno> I don't follow
<ali1234> ship and shirt are germanic, skip and skirt are from norse
<shauno> and that's not what I said 10 minutes ago ?
<ali1234> yeah
<shauno> the fun being that english just adopts every word it runs into too often, and finds an excuse to keep it
<ali1234> best way to do it
<ali1234> it beats inventing a new word just so you can keep the "purity" of your language or something
<shauno> so where the germans, if they need a more precise term, just start sticking more words together until they've got one
<shauno> we find one that's close enough, in whatever countries we're in contact with at the time, and borrow theirs
<shauno> (I do believe loanword is a loanword, which is why it's contraction is german "bolt them all together" style rather than hyphenated)
<HazRPG> shauno: oh, just remember a Thai word one of my friends taught me years ago! "Cop Coon Cup" means thank you
<ali1234> i thought it *was* hyphenated
<shauno> it's not :)
<ali1234> i think "alot" will become a word soon :)
<shauno> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/loanword   it's lehnwort
<shauno> they put a space in it as an alternate, I don't come across it used like that.  and never loan-word
<shauno> even tho osx's spellchecker is fine with loan-word, apparently :/
<HazRPG> shauno: Arabians don't even bother trying to make it sound more arabic, they're just content with keeping the word as-is as long as the letters are available in their language
<shauno> that always bothers me to listen to
<shauno> when you hear the welsh throw words like 'radio' into a sentence
<shauno> it's like they spit the marbles out for half a breath, and just throw that one intelligible chunk at you
<shauno> the irony of course being that I believe welsh is the remains of what the britons spoke before the romans, yet it's one of the least intelligible languages to me
<HazRPG> e.g. english->arabic (also french); gear -> vitesse, clutch -> debrayage,
<shauno> is that not directly from colonial periods?
<HazRPG> yeah, but there wasn't a car in Egypt before that
<HazRPG> (I don't think)
<shauno> you can have gears without cars :)
<shauno> but I'd expect that's the period version of computer terms going largely untranslated
<HazRPG> ah sorry I mean gearbox
<shauno> a friend at work was helping me buy amiga parts from a polish website
<HazRPG> yeah
<shauno> most the terms look just like english, but for the few words that pre-existed computers
<HazRPG> heh
<HazRPG> "harda" means hard drive
<HazRPG> "cee-dee room" -> CD-Rom
<shauno> I think memory and keyboard were the two that stood out  (they used typewriter, or a variation of, for their translation of keyboard)
<HazRPG> :P
<HazRPG> flasha
<shauno> but other words looked like they just tacked a -y on the end to fit their grammar
<HazRPG> I bet ya, I could say arabic words, and you'd know what they were
<HazRPG> case-ah
<ali1234> russian does that too (tack on an ending i mean)
<HazRPG> yeah
<HazRPG> sometimes a starting letter
<shauno> yeah.  he tried to explain how their sentence structure works.  I couldn't get my head around it
<ali1234> like discotech -> diskoteka
<HazRPG> like debrayage
<shauno> like we mutate a verb to fit it's tense.  they do it to almost everything, and for more reasons, as far as I can tell
<HazRPG> google translate tells me the french version is "embrayage"
<ali1234> english does all that stuff too, it's just that the rules are completely random in english so nobody actually learns about it
<HazRPG> I know in arabic, they've also created 2 new letters over recent years, to account for the english letters "p" and "v"
<shauno> we don't tend to mutate nouns so much
<HazRPG> since the closest they had was "b" and "f" respectively
<HazRPG> the arabic p and v amuse me, because the letters basically just add another two dots to the original letter
<shauno> there we go.  komputery.  laptopy.  monitory.  technical terms seem to survive the language they were taught in
<HazRPG> indeed
<shauno> (except in the norman case, where I believe it was intentionally forced)
<HazRPG> hazard a guess what "benzene" is in english ;)
<shauno> hah
<HazRPG> gasoline or petrol usually :p
<shauno> most our words for law, governance, etc are from the normans.  that wasn't an accident tho
<HazRPG> :P
<shauno> that said, I'm not sure what the equivalents would be pre-norman
<HazRPG> what word for example?
<shauno> well, government, parliament, etc
<shauno> justice doesn't sound very germanic
<shauno> I think 'law' itself is pre-roman, but I can't think of many words deeper into the process that are
<HazRPG> arabic for government is "hakuma" or "al-kakuma"
<HazRPG> they like to use "al" in everything that's said by itself
<HazRPG> al = the
<HazRPG> mainly for things that don't have a male or female way of saying it
<HazRPG> since they don't have a "it" in arabic
<HazRPG> you can't say "it is a dog"
<shauno> that's an entire concept I've never got my head around
<HazRPG> usually its "he is a dog"
<shauno> I can understand in the case of a dog; it's still useful to have an 'indeterminate', but gender makes sense
<HazRPG> trust me, I've been living with arabic in my head for years... and I still don't get it
<ali1234> what if you want to say "this is a dog"
<HazRPG> I get funny looks when I say things wrong...
<shauno> but when you find languages (and you don't have to look far) that have a gender for things that ... have no gender
<ali1234> or like "this one"
<ali1234> this vs that
<shauno> I should be asleep :/
<HazRPG> ali1234: "da kalb" (egyptian arabic) or more traditionally "hatha kalb" (used in all arab countries)
<HazRPG> but kalb is male
<HazRPG> kalba is female
<HazRPG> usually if it has no gender (objects) its male
<shauno> I imagine when we get gender wrong, we sound as silly as they do when they say 'runned'.  and we can't quite explain to them why some verbs are strong either
<shauno> doesn't mean it's something my head's gonna grok at 3am
<HazRPG> however... in arabic is more depends on who's saying it - not the actual thing your talking about
<shauno> now that I think about it, I think bed is a sensible option.  I only got up because I got a low disk sms from my vps
<HazRPG> e.g. "howa da" is for a guy saying "this one" but for a lass it would be "heya da"
<shauno> and that was nearly 4 hours ago now :(
<HazRPG> "da" would be "this"
<HazRPG> I guess...
<shauno> makes sense.  it's the same in orcish :p
<HazRPG> ??/
<shauno> come on squishy, I know you played dat game too
<HazRPG> calling me squishy now?? lol
<shauno> well if you didn't get orcish immediately, I peg you for alliance, so yes :)
<HazRPG> yeah I've played it, but never really paid much attention to the languages
<HazRPG> always mage... so squishy makes sense in that sense... but what alliance!? No... for the horde!
<HazRPG> alliance was always filled with kids when I first started - plus the horde always looked better
 * HazRPG was undead on release date
<HazRPG> I've only just played that link for treasure island from earlier T_T
<HazRPG> el pollo diablo
<HazRPG> hmm, disturbing!
<shauno> heh
<HazRPG> oh, that last comment was unrelated
<HazRPG> apparently sony just won a subpoena for GeoHotz's paypal records
<HazRPG> news from about 3hrs ago
<HazRPG> apparently they're allowed to view his history to see if he has enough ties to northern california... that way they can pick where he gets sued - apparently...
<shauno> fun stuff
<HazRPG> I'm sure it was a few months back when sony got rights to check his site's IP log for similar - why do they need his PayPal records too :/
<shauno> so they can paper-trail more victims
<HazRPG> obviously...
<shauno> visiting his website is a lot more denyable
<shauno> it could have been anyone.  you didn't have a password on your wifi, right?
<HazRPG> lol
<shauno> but if they can follow the money, you're screwed
<HazRPG> ah but the money was only recently opened up for him to get more attorneys
<ali1234> it's not about finding more people to sue (which is trivial anyway)
<HazRPG> do go on
<ali1234> it's about establishing that he made his work available in CA
<HazRPG> don't see how that is relevant though :S
<HazRPG> it was on the internet... anyone could (would) have seen it
<ali1234> well duh
<shauno> unless there's a law in california which works more to their favor than local
<ali1234> exactly
<HazRPG> hmm
<shauno> atleast in the US, internet purchases take place in the buyer's state.  I know that from taxes
<HazRPG> I wish cases like this would go through under European courts...
<HazRPG> under European law
<HazRPG> would be more interesting to see the outcome
<shauno> if you buy from someone out of state, you don't pay sales tax at the point of purchase; you owe it on your state taxes when you file
<HazRPG> random
<shauno> so the actual purchase occured where the buyer is; so that's the state the taxes are paid to.  and in this case, the state the law was (allegedly) broken in
<ali1234> groklaw is actually covering this stuff now that sco is mostly over
<HazRPG> what's SCO?
<shauno> it keeps consumer complaints as a matter for local authorities that way too; otherwise they'd be intra-state, so federal wire fraud
<ali1234> HazRPG: a company that tried to sue everyone who used linux for 1 MILLION DOLLARS
<HazRPG> woah
<shauno> that was kinda funny :)
<HazRPG> woah, have I missed out on some interesting news here recently?!
<shauno> that wasn't recent
<ali1234> it was like 10 years ago
<HazRPG> oh wait
<HazRPG> I think I heard something about that, now that you mention it
<ali1234> because it was rich people vs rich people it took an extremely long time for the case to get anywhere
<shauno> the short version, is that someone who thought they owned some rights to unix, tried to push their own linux.  realised they weren't making any money off it.
<shauno> so they went back to trying to push their own unix, realised they weren't making any money off that either, and went nuts
<HazRPG> *rolls eyes*
<HazRPG> typical
<shauno> and spent the better part of a decade dying slowly on various courtroom floors
<shauno> on the other hand, they did license 'ancient unix' sources under an 'enthusiast' license somewhere down the line, so it wasn't all bad
<HazRPG> ah see this is why they're doing it :/
<shauno> nah, they just crapped themselves when they realised that linux was beating traditional unix in just about every area you could think of
<HazRPG> they're trying to see if geohotz is getting a lot of backing from people in California, so that he can be trialled in San Francisco's court room
<HazRPG> which is apparently half-hr drive away from Sony HQ
<shauno> pft
<shauno> seriously, travel expenses are the least of their legal bill
<shauno> google california trade secrets, there has to be something there that's worth more than his home state
<shauno> ugh, trade secrets
<shauno> you look at the legal costs in any of these things, and tell me a couple of flights and a hotel room or three would make a noticeable difference to the bill
<HazRPG> I guess
<HazRPG> could be that San Francisco has better rules in sony's favour though
<shauno> you should read into the sco thing some time tho.  it's pretty damned funny
<shauno> if you had to set the whole thing in a bar; pasty-faced nerd, linux wanders into a bar one day, and drink's SCO's pint.
<shauno> SCO jumps up in a fit of rage, finds the biggest guy in the bar (ibm), and takes a swing
<shauno> when he stood up and announced he was going to sue ibm, the board should have shot him in the face.  the company would be in better shape today.
<HazRPG> haha
<HazRPG> :P
<shauno> or in irc terms
<shauno> <sco>  you stole my unix!
<shauno> <ibm> it's not your unix.  it's novells.
<shauno> <sco> novell: wtf? you sold me unix!
<shauno> <novell>  TROLOLOLOLO
<shauno> anyhow.  'night
<HazRPG> :P
<HazRPG> I'm reading this: http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20110311112544990 seems interesting
<HazRPG> shauno: and I shall bid you a dew
<HazRPG> goodnight and all that stuff :)
<shauno> *adieu.  and yes that's deus again
<HazRPG> lol
<HazRPG> I couldn't remember the spelling, so went with what I wrote instead
<HazRPG> you know... I'm shocked that no one has mentioned that new games force you to update or not be able to play the game...
<ali1234> new games?
<ali1234> i only play old games
<ali1234> and minecraft
<HazRPG> on the playstation 3 and also on the PSP, when you buy a new game... the latest firmware (as of pressing, or as of what the game was coded to run off, or whatever sony said must be used - whichever comes first) has to be installed before you can play
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> i would never buy a new console
<ali1234> i only buy old gen
<HazRPG> saying that the x360 is the same
<ali1234> and the wii
<HazRPG> I can understand that
<HazRPG> but my point is, why haven't they used this against sony?
<ali1234> they have
<ali1234> there is a class action against them
<ali1234> see groklaw
<HazRPG> I am :P
<HazRPG> as linked above (what I'm reading now)
<ali1234> that's basically the the whole argument against them
<HazRPG> so far, no mention of firmware being forced from new games, only mentions of updates that have been downloaded
<HazRPG> which you need, if you want to use PSN
<ali1234> "Users who downloaded Update 3.21 had a core advertised feature removed from       their system. Users who did not download Update 3.21 lost other core advertised features. "
<ali1234> you are not forced to download the update
<ali1234> but you lose functionality whether you do or do not
<ali1234> that's the argument
<HazRPG> true... but if they used the new games thing too in their argument, it would give them a stronger backing
<HazRPG> since if one was to pick not using PSN, and keep OtherOS
<HazRPG> and was happy or fine with that... what if they wanted a new game, they couldn't
<ali1234> yes, people in the class action have done that
<HazRPG> I suppose I should keep reading then :P
<ali1234> inability to play new games is the feature you lose if you choose not to update
<HazRPG> when you word it like that...
<HazRPG> unrelated... I'm hungry again :/
<ball> I think I need a UPS or two.
<ball> ...and a pie.
<HazRPG> :P
<knightwise> morning everyone
<knightwise> hope all of you are doing ok ?
<HazRPG> morning squire, how's it going?
<knightwise> hey HazRPG
<knightwise> doing fine
<HazRPG> gdgd :)
<screen-x> morning :)
 * screen-x wonders if HazRPG sleeps at all
<HazRPG> from time to time :P
<knightwise> hey screen-x
<knightwise> aha :) I mananged to get TWIDGE working again :)
<screen-x> morning knightwise :)
<knightwise> All i need to find out now is how to script it so i can post some podcast related tweets every x hours
<screen-x> twidge?
<knightwise> yep ,
<knightwise> cli twitter client
<screen-x> ahh
<knightwise> interesting little program , so its always nice to use that :)
<hoover> good mornin
<knightwise> hello hoover
<knightwise> how are you today
<knightwise> i have a small question
<knightwise> the updates by twidge are done with the "twidge update" command
<knightwise> you type twidge update
<knightwise> hit enter
<knightwise> enter your text
<knightwise> and hit enter again
<knightwise> but how do i script that ? i can script the command twidge update
<knightwise> but how to i script the "hard returns ?"
<screen-x> knightwise: can twidge take the update text as an argument or on stdin?
<knightwise> not as an argument i guess
<knightwise> you need to type , twidge update
<knightwise> then hit enter
<knightwise> en then you get a blank line to enter text
<knightwise> hit enter again and it gets updated
<screen-x> knightwise: try giving it the text on stdin, eg echo "foo" |twidge update
<screen-x> if it doesn't like that, you can either hack it so that it does ;-) or use expect
<knightwise> checking my twitterfeed now ,
<knightwise> i think that worked
<knightwise> YES !
<knightwise> Aaawesome :)
 * knightwise can now script some podcast promo tweets to run while he is sleeping
<czajkowski> Aloha
<knightwise> hey czajkowski good to see you again
<DJones> Morning
<knightwise> hey DJones
<DJones> Hi knightwise czajkowski screen-x
<AlanBell> top o' the morning to ya czajkowski
<AlanBell> today being "talk like a leprechaun day"
<knightwise> Hey AlanBell
<knightwise> how do leprechauns talk ?
<knightwise> Topadamorninntoya ?
<hoover> lol
<knightwise> all they yap about all day are pots of gold anyway
 * screen-x has lost his wallet :(
<screen-x> bring on NFC payments
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: with a chip implanted in your finger?
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: or phone, either would work :p
<MartijnVdS> until you lost your phone
<MartijnVdS> it'd have to be a bad day to lose your finger
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: yah, but my phone tells me where it is..
<czajkowski> oh dear
<MooDoo> well thanks to the podcast i now know how to say czajkowski :)
<screen-x> MooDoo: seezedtab?
<MooDoo> screen-x: yay!
<knightwise> morning MooDoo
<nigelb> AlanBell: poke?
<MooDoo> knightwise: morning
<knightwise> hey MooDoo how are you doing today
<AlanBell> o/ nigelb
<nigelb> AlanBell: PM? :)
<AlanBell> any time
<MooDoo> knightwise: i'm not bad thank, i'm on bacon coffee and head ache tabs :)
<knightwise> ooh , thats a killer combo,
<MooDoo> knightwise: might keep me awake this morning :)
<knightwise> i'm on donuts , mint tea and a citrix session to my workplace
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: awww
<knightwise> hey MartijnVdS
<knightwise> Thank god for irssi, centerim, twidge and alpine in a command line windows
 * knightwise wished byobu also split the windows vertically instead of only horizontally
<diplo> morning
<knightwise> hey diplo
<hoover> mornin
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: Ctrl+A |
<screen-x> knightwise: it does :)
<screen-x> screen has had vsplits for a while now
<knightwise> huzza !
<knightwise> thanx ! :) hadn't googled it properly either
<kazade> morning
<kazade> podcast! \o/
<knightwise> Huzza (again)
<knightwise> Ps : I featured a little review of the podcast in my latest article
<knightwise> www.knightwise.com
 * bigcalm raises the white flag. Is it the weekend yet?
<knightwise> I did a review of my opml file
<knightwise> bigcalm: probably need to sync to a different timeserver
<bigcalm> Just put the podcast on. Did popey say it was 2010?
<knightwise> hahaah no way !
 * bigcalm chuckles
 * MooDoo goes and listens to the podcast to check
<knightwise> I just ordered Gpodder to download it
<MooDoo> yes he did, he says 2010 :) lol
<bigcalm> Oh good :)
<MooDoo> popey: it's 2011 :p
 * DJones checks his phone & notes that Listen has automatically downloaded it overnight
<knightwise> DJones: i never managed to "understand" google listen
<knightwise> I never know if it has downloaded the episode or is streaming it
<DJones> knightwise: I just added it as a subscription via the web interface
 * knightwise uses gpodder.org or just gpo subscribe <RSSfeedofthepodcast>
<DJones> knightwise: On mine, if its downloaded, it just plays when requested, otherwise it gave me a warning about whether I wanted to play the streamed version
<MooDoo> bigcalm: no do i comment about it on the podcast.ubuntu-uk.org page ;)
<knightwise> DJones: good idea , might look into that for my wifes Android phone. She likes trancy tune podcasts
<knightwise> so that way she"'ll have a self charging mp3player
<DJones> knightwise: The only other thing I set was so that it only downloaded over wifi when available
<knightwise> ah , that thus prevents it from streaming ver gprs too ?
<DJones> no, I think if you choose to listen to a stream, thats fine, but rather than downloading a 60Mb podcast & using a big chunk of the bandwidth, it just does the download to teh device via wifi
<knightwise> ok , i'll take a look at it
<knightwise> did a review on the way i podcatch right now in the last episode of the podcast (made a pdf howto)
<knightwise> the entire script that i made with the help of you guyz is also in there
<selinuxium> Monring all   o/
<hoover> mornin
<knightwise> hahaha :) Watch + twidge lsrecent = command line twitter client !
<knightwise> watch -b -n 60 twidge lsrecent
<shauno> didn't realise screen did vertical splits.  irssi & mutt sit next to each other so much nicer that way
<knightwise> we learn something new every day :)
<AlanBell> twidge seems broken
<czajkowski> *yawns*
<MooDoo> morning czajkowski great podcast :)
<czajkowski> heh cheers.
<knightwise> czajkowski: you're ON the podcast ?
<knightwise> Nice !
<czajkowski> just on the latest one. they were stuck on missing a laura
<AlanBell> knightwise: they had to bring out the emergency replacement Laura
<MooDoo> czajkowski: only one thing, it's 2011 not 2010 :p
<DJones> I saw a tweet from laura saying she was at Bank Quay Station in Warrington yesterday afternoon, living about 20 minutes away from there, I can say that people have gone there and never been seen or heard of again
<AlanBell> http://blog.nelhage.com/2010/09/dear-twitter/
<knightwise> AlanBell: :) Lol ERL ! thats a nice title
 * AlanBell fixors twidge
<knightwise> AlanBell: its a cool program :) some combinations with echo and watch commands and you can build a complete automatic twitter client
<mungojerry> knightwise: or put tweets into conky output?
<directhex> blarg :(
<knightwise> would be a great idea
<mungojerry> now i need to find out how to send nagios alerts as tweets
<knightwise> echo "(nagios output)" | twidge update
<mungojerry> oh really?
<mungojerry> :P
<mungojerry> sounds a bit too eay
<mungojerry> *easy
<knightwise> well, how about making the nagios output a variable and using backticks ?
 * knightwise must dash to work
<bigcalm> In WordPress, how do you make a page the homepage rather than the blog?
<JamesTait> Happy St Patrick's Day, everyone! :D
<bigcalm> Never mind, found it
 * TheOpenSourcerer prepares to go to London for a very traditional St. Paddy's Day curry with some old mates. One is in fact Irish.
<TheOpenSourcerer> selinuxium: I'll piing you mid-late afternoon. If I forget, don't be shy and give me bell.
<dogmatic69> o/
<bigcalm> popey: all of the images in the twitter feed are broken on the ubuntu-uk.co.uk site
<directhex> amazon storage is broken, if that's relevant
<bigcalm> And there are stlying issues on the podcast site :)
 * BigRedS wishes FTP would just go away
<bigcalm> Don't rub eyes while eating wasbi peas :(
<directhex> don't rub wasabi peas when eating eyes
<directhex> BigRedS,  http://mywiki.wooledge.org/FtpMustDie ?
<shauno> I thought it pretty much had.  only ever see it used for uploading fw to embedded devices
<BigRedS> directhex: pretty much :)
<BigRedS> shauno: lots of website-making-people seem to demand it
<BigRedS> They dislike scp, but don't mind so much if you call it sftp
<selinuxium> Hi BigRedS
<BigRedS> g'morning selinuxium!
<mungojerry> directhex: were you taling about redmine yesterday or was it someone else
<directhex> i was
<mungojerry> i been using it for 3-4 years
<mungojerry> i actually use it as a helpdesk system
<mungojerry> the UI is lovely
<directhex> i am prepared to look past the Ruby on Rails evilness, to the fact that it's freaking awesome compared to trac
<directhex> the privilege separation appears to work perfectly, so we can have a "base" project, with "client1" and "client2" subprojects - and members of client1 will never see any leakage
<directhex> e.g. they can put a blocker on bugs in base, but client2 members will never see that
<directhex> absolutely perfect for us
<mungojerry> i have a few issues outstanding with it, but it's almost perfect for me
<mungojerry> i'd like to change the author of a ticket etc.
<directhex> also, the project manglement parts appear like extra delicious candy for us
<mungojerry> i also wrote some extra stuff to draw pretty graphs based on mysql queries
<dogmatic69> ive been trying to follow this tutorial on aws stuff http://tinyurl.com/yct4oua but having a prob with this command, it does not seem to work "nohup dd if=/dev/sda1 of=/dev/sdh &" ... output http://bin.cakephp.org/view/1486650903
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: what's in nohup.out?
<dogmatic69> i cant find that
<directhex> mungojerry, we're just testing with sqlite for now. can always move to postgres later
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: found it :) looks like it did work at some point.
<nacol> hi
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: aha! so no problems then?
<nacol> I am having problem downloading backtrack
<selinuxium> BigRedS, How's things?
<nacol> i was told file was not found on server after downloading 1514MB
<nacol> PLEASE HELP
<Myrtti> try ubuntu instead?
<nacol> i am using ubuntu now but i want backtrack too
<BigRedS> selinuxium: pretty good! Still pretty pleased with the whole using-debian-all-day thing going on here :)
<BigRedS> how're you?
<nacol> Myrtti, i want backtrack too
<DJones> nacol: There is a #backtrack-linux they may be able to help you, that seems like the main support channel for backtrack
<nacol> i dont understand am a newbie
<DJones> nacol: It sounds like there's been a problem with the Backtrack server though & the file you were downloading is no longer available
<nacol> Djones, what do i do
<nacol> please help
<DJones> nacol: If you join the #backtrack-linux channel (type /join #backtrack-linux in your irc client) they may have come across the problem and have a solution, or just try downloading the file again
<mungojerry> nacol: maybe there's also a mirror site that might not have the problem you are experiencing?
<mungojerry> nacol: for example, http://backtrack.linuxfreedom.com/download.html
<nacol> thanks, i will try the mirror
<mungojerry> nacol:  on second thought, that doesn't look like the latest version
<mungojerry> but there should be other mirrors , or bittorrents?
<nacol> which one is the latest version
<mungojerry> http://www.backtrack-linux.org/downloads/ says backtrack 4 r2
<mungojerry> there is also a link to the torrent too
<nacol> that was the site I used and had that problem
<nacol> mungojerry, are you using backtrack?
<mungojerry> nacol: no, but i've used it before for forensics. the torrent file  is downloaded from seeders, not from the site
<mungojerry> knoppix and backtrack are useful to have nearby on a live cd
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: it said permission denied and then also (from another attempt looked like it worked) but /dev/sdh is empty
<mungojerry> anaconda now needs > 512mb in SL6 :(
<nacol> am still having problem downloading backtrack
<nacol> please help
<BigRedS> nacol: what are the problems?
<DJones> nacol: You'll get better help if you ask #backtrack-linux that is the support channel for backtrack
<BigRedS> and, without meaning to sound rude, what is the connection to ubuntu?
<nacol> i download 1714 MB and there was error
<BigRedS> It's not that this is ubuntu-only, but here's not necessarily a place I'd expect to find a bunch of people with backtrack expertise
<nacol> ok
<nacol> thanks
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: what made the otehr attempt look like it worked?
<BigRedS> nacol: it does sound like just a fairly common download error. Something, somewhere along your connection, failed. Most probably at backtrack's server
<BigRedS> have you tried downloading again?
<nacol> yes
<mungojerry> bittorrent is a better way to retrieve the file
<mungojerry> since you can resume the download
<nacol> how do i do this
<mungojerry> download the small torrent file on the page
<mungojerry> http://www.backtrack-linux.org/downloads/
<AlanBell> find a .torrent file and click it, it should open in transmission
<nacol> ok thanks
<gord> i'v somehow managed to get firefox to resume a download before, but its like a random dice roll on weather it decides to do it
<AlanBell> probably depends whether the server does byte range serving
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: http://bin.cakephp.org/view/1809573285
<dogmatic69> df -h == /dev/sdh              9.9G  151M  9.2G   2% /mnt/ebsimage
<dogmatic69> i think it is too small...
<brobostigon> morning everyone.
<Daviey> I'm not convinced it's that simple.... i think often firefox gives up too easily... i mean, i use wget -c http://some-url-file all the time to continue downloads
<Daviey> I suspect firefox would just laugh at me most of the time
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: that would do it
<BigRedS> I don't know dd that well, but I think if you don't specify anything else (via count=) it just stops when it runs out of either if or of
<dogmatic69> ye
<dogmatic69> cant eject that mount now
<BigRedS> ah yeah
<BigRedS> things get annoyed when you do stuff like that. partprobe *may* help
<dogmatic69> partprobe?
<dogmatic69> if i just yank the drive out on aws will the main data be ok?
<dogmatic69> just gonna bin that ebs that is mounted
 * brobostigon shakes fist at java for sucking ram.
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: I've no idea with aws. Generally, though, if you're pulling the drive you were copying *to* there's no reason for breakage on teh source drive
<dogmatic69> cool
<BigRedS> but the OS might complain horribly
<dogmatic69> this is all that could be stoping the eject, i think http://bin.cakephp.org/view/1138790026
<brobostigon> anyone know how i change the way fonts are rendered in natty, ?
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: *facepalm* i was in /mnt/ebsthingy doing the eject :D
<dogmatic69> cd / and then it worked
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: haha! I do that far too often
<dogmatic69> :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Chris Rowson] How to read data from a remote Windows registry using Python - http://www.justuber.com/blog/2011/03/17/how-to-read-data-from-a-remote-windows-registry-using-python/
<Daviey> Soooo... Anyone tried the Magic Mouse?
<bigcalm> That the one with the nipple?
<selinuxium> Anyone up for coming to see me gig with my Metal band 2nd April at the Camden Barfly?
<selinuxium> BigRedS, Ok this end.. been very stressful recently, but getting through.. :)
<Daviey> bigcalm, yes!  single nipple
<Daviey> i think
<popey> the magic mouse has no nipple
<popey> http://www.apple.com/magicmouse/
<popey> do you mean the mighty mouse? http://store.apple.com/uk/product/MB112ZM/B
<gord> never quite understood why apple go for that style mouse, as opposed to one that fits the contours of your hand - i'm sure they have a reason, they aren't stupid
<bigcalm> Style over comfort?
<BigRedS> I think few people genuinely think about ergonomics when they pick computery things
<BigRedS> they want something that looks pretty and forget there's that whole comfort thing going on
<BigRedS> selinuxium: Ah, are you still surrounded by umoving cobol guys?
<selinuxium> BigRedS, indeed..
<selinuxium> :)
<mungojerry> any clever yum dudes in here?
<mungojerry> i want to list the packages of a yum group
<mungojerry> ah, yum groupinfo <group>
<Daviey> popey, ah yes!  I did mean the magic mouse, but was looking at mighty mouse...doh
 * Daviey wants a mouse, a bluetooth mouse
<popey> i would personally not get one, I'd get the tablet thing
<popey> although i have just bought two normal mice
<popey> one is pink, logitech, and has a tux logo on the box :)
<popey> the other is black, microsoft, and does not
<mungojerry> pink
<mungojerry> at least it won't get stolen if it's pink
<popey> it might do
<gord> there is only one way to decide the winner?
<popey> i dont care though
<popey> FIIIIGHT!
<gord> man i haven't seen harry hill in years, is that still going?
<popey> yes
<gord> neat
<popey> i do like microsoft mice though
<gord> if there is one thing that microsoft know (and arguably, there is) - its mice
<gord> i use some random "gamer" mouse, just because it has a high DPI
<popey> i am going to sound stupid now.
<popey> what is the 'dash' in ubuntu 11.04?
<mungojerry> isn't that when you click the ubuntu icon?
<AlanBell> is that the term for the thing when you click the circle of friends top left?
<AlanBell> and get a page of useless stuff to click on
<mungojerry> btw try dragging one of those things somwhere like the desktop
<popey> i have literally no idea
<gord> popey, places
<gord> ... which are actually lens's now
<gord> lensi?
<popey> how do i get to places?
<gord> super key, or click the bfb or press one of the places icons at the bottom of your launcher
<gord> also, alt+f2 (which is awesome if you haven't tried that yet)
<popey> recordmydesktop seems broken in natty
<gord> it was for a while for me, just hung eating up all my cpu but i used it successfully a week or so ago
<mungojerry> why, when unity feels like a more tablet oriented DE, does it require MORE keyboard input than any other DE i've used
<popey> it doesnt seem to copy with alt-tabbing and leaves artifacts on the screen
<mungojerry> does recordmydesktop use a systray icon
<mungojerry> ok
<gord> popey, oh, i'v seen that stuff when using  compiz. using force full frames?
<popey> yes
<popey> yes
<gord> no idea then
<popey> is places configurable?
<popey> e.g. it says 'check email' and I'd like that to go to gmail, not evolution
<mungojerry> popey: as an alternative, i saw someone using byzanz-record to record their desktop on natty
<popey> eww
<popey> no audio too
<popey> i hate screencasts with no audio
<mungojerry> ok :P
<popey> :)
<mungojerry> hmm seem to have 2 network indicators in natty atm
<mungojerry> popey: Â Allow recording audio with Theora video.
<brobostigon> mungojerry: ihad that yesterday, in unity-2d. seems to have gone now in normal unity.
<mungojerry> brobostigon: yay :)
<gord> popey, if you set the preferred mail application to gmail somehow, maybe
<brobostigon> mungojerry: mind you, i have had alot of nm-applet problems recently.
<mungojerry> just rebooting after a olt of updates in last 24 hrs
 * brobostigon goes to make a hot-toddy, he isnt feeling well.
<mungojerry> hot toddies and chicken soup fix most known ailments
<brobostigon> no whisky,i will have to use brandy insted.
<mungojerry> does anyone find the concertina effect doesn't work?
<mungojerry> when you try to expand the lower items, they disappear off screen
<popey> i have made my thing 32px wide
<popey> so i dont see the concertina effect
<mungojerry> 36px for me
<mungojerry> popey: try long click on an icon..what happens?
<popey> menu
<popey> same as right click
<popey> which says to me 'built for touch devices'
<mungojerry> try very long click on an icon lower in your launcher
<popey> dunno
<popey> what am i supposed to be seeing?
<mungojerry> http://i.imgur.com/q3mfA.png
<popey> yes, i get that
<mungojerry> is that a bug or feature?
<popey> no idea
<mungojerry> hard to search for in launchpad too
<mungojerry> i think it's a bug since a long click on applications shoudl present a list of app types , but then the launcher jreks down like that
<gord> bug
<mungojerry> cool, there's progress on bug 717114 :)
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 717114 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu Natty) "[i945gm] Screen Corruption with new Xorg stack with terminal programs" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/717114
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bCuSeziHHw is now my phone ringtone
<bigcalm> I wonder if you can develop a nut allergy later in life
 * popey steals bigcalm's graze box
<bigcalm> popey: ancient forest nuts
<popey> same to you!
<bigcalm> The walnuts and almonds are fine
<popey> wifey is allergic to almonds
<bigcalm> The hazels are having an adverse effect :(
<popey> are you asthmatic?
<bigcalm> Yes
<popey> yeah, makes sense
<popey> </doctor_popey>
<bigcalm> Hehe
<bigcalm> My lips are swelling up, fun times
<bigcalm> I'll leave the hazels for Hayley ;)
<bigcalm> I like the track, puts me in mind of mr ben
<popey> it was used on Charlie Brooker's thing
<bigcalm> Those crazy late 70s early 80s
<popey> and I coudln't recognise it
<bigcalm> Ah
<popey> so posted to one of those 'whats that tune' sites
<popey> http://www.whatsthatcalled.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=15813
<bigcalm> I wonder if programme credits should list indcidental music used
<popey> he apparently has a spotify list
<popey> but the link from browser to spotify is broken on linux
<bigcalm> Poop
<popey> http://open.spotify.com/user/charliebrooker/playlist/1cbjbEfXuZesvIYHnN9ilP
<popey> works on osx
<bigcalm> spotify:user:charliebrooker:playlist:1cbjbEfXuZesvIYHnN9ilP
<bigcalm> Put that into the spotify search bar
<popey> ooo yay
<popey> thanks
<bigcalm> :)
<popey> unfortunately the song i wanted isnt available on spotify :)
<bigcalm> DOH
<popey> loads of Syd Dale stuff is
<popey> i didnt realise he made "Full Flight" and "Man Friday"
<Mez> Seriously, what's the point of the sandwhich van turning up at our work with literally 1 sandwhich on it?
<bigcalm> Somebody will buy it
<bigcalm> Lunch time I think
<Mez> No - I mean - he knows theres at least 5 of us who buy our food from him.
<Mez> Now I've gotta go hunting for a sandwhich shop that's still open.
<screen-x> Mez: maybe the company before you on the rota where hungry today
<Mez> screen-x: now I'm hungry. yay.
<Mez> And, all the damned sandwhich shops around here shut at 1 or half 1
<Mez> and I really don't feel like going to subway or something like that.
<screen-x> mez buy a spud and microwave it :)
<shauno> \o/
<shauno> I have ramen for lunch :/
<Myrtti> mmmm subway
<mungojerry> nothing gives post-food regret quite like subway
<mungojerry> repeats on me for 8 hrs after
<Myrtti> subway? in comparison to pizza or hot wings...
<Myrtti> subway is the regret free option
<mungojerry> even after i eat a full evening meal , i still get subway burps from lunchtime
<MartijnVdS> hmm running :)
<MartijnVdS> Makes all options regret-free ;)
 * mungojerry is underweight, never regrets eating calories, but sometimes regrets for other reasons
<shauno> I swear I have an indestructable stomach.  there's very, very little I'll regret eating
<Mez> shauno: me too...
<mungojerry> it's quite annoying always  having to choose the higher calorie option , even when i don't feel like it
<mungojerry> shauno: every irish person i've met is similar, and have a MASSIVE appetite
<shauno> my lunch options are mostly limited by how far I can be bothered walking.  especially on holidays
<BigRedS> Why can't I find the view-all-my-mail-in-plain-text option in Thunderbird?
<mungojerry> i take probiotics to keep the stomach elfs happy, not sure if they work..feel the same about homeopathic stuff too
<BigRedS> I suspect probiotics are better grounded in science
<BigRedS> but do seem to have a fair whack of exageration, too
<popey> heh
<popey> I saw a doctor once who said don't even touch them, because you'd need to drink gallons of the stuff to get any useful amount of the probiotics to stay in your tummy
<mungojerry> i have freeze dried ones...they're probably all dead already
<popey> however, conversely we always give our kids those yog thinks like actimel if they're on antibiotics, it helps a lot
<mungojerry> antiobiotics mess me up badly
 * MartijnVdS hasn't been on antibiotics for ages
<mungojerry> couldn't leave the house the last time
<popey> Sophie gets infections, hole in her eardrum
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hole_(band)
<MartijnVdS> </sorry>
<mungojerry> MartijnVdS: every the sensitive type!
<mungojerry> *ever
<popey> :)
<popey> her ears are big, not that big
<brobostigon> is this the same for everyone, in unity, with apps  on different workspaces, alt-tab doesnt show apps  fromother workspaces,only th same workspace?
<mungojerry> brobostigon: yes, i guess that's the desired functionality
<brobostigon> mungojerry: i amused to alt-tab showing everything, from any workspace, its alittle weird, iforget some apps are there.
<mungojerry> just tried to zoom out to wirkspace switcher with super-e  - realised that the unity launcher now destroys any super-key shortcuts :(
<mungojerry> thought that super-tab might do the all-workspaces but unity broke that too
<MartijnVdS> \o/ unity
<mungojerry> \0_
<DJones> Heh http://www.27bslash6.com/blockbuster.html (It is safee for work)
<dwatkins> DJones: nice :)
<DJones> dwatkins: Been looking at some of the others on the site, but some of them are a bit NSFW
<mungojerry> does anyone remembre a website that showed pieces of paper that had randomly been found
<mungojerry> sometimes they were weird shopping lists and other times surreal statements
<mungojerry> found it, www.foundmagazine.com probably NSFW
<MartijnVdS> good thing my W isn't too concerned about things being S :)
<popey> 14:00:14 < mungojerry> just tried to zoom out to wirkspace switcher with super-e  - realised that the unity launcher now destroys any super-key shortcuts :(
<popey> wfm
 * mungojerry tries again
<popey> also super+w
<gord> yeah its just compiz keybindings
<mungojerry> agh
<popey> which is listed in the launcher
<mungojerry> sorry, didn't notice there were 3 shortcuts on the lower icons
<mungojerry> thought it was just 1-10
 * screen-x just had a trainwreck of a phone interview :(
<mungojerry> screen-x: :(
<mungojerry> hard qu's?
<dutchie> i should probably do something about some sort of job
<screen-x> I had answers, I just dont think I gave them the most relevant ones..
<screen-x> I had made loads of notes in prepartion, but nervousness does strange things..
<mungojerry> after a couple more interviews your recall will prob improve
<screen-x> mungojerry: thanks..
<mungojerry> you never know how others fared
<screen-x> I had prepared for them to ask how my experience/skills match each of the requirements, but I was just asked to talk about my current role while they took notes.
<screen-x> Next time will prepare some prose!
<selinuxium> Arrghhh!!! Seriously dumb question right now, but just realised I have never configured upstart. trying to get /etc/init.d/vmware-tools to start on reboot.. #
<selinuxium> sudo update-rc.d vmware-tools defaults 80
<selinuxium> throws errors...
<mungojerry> just noticed that /var/log/messages doesn't exist on natty
<MartijnVdS> it doesn't?!
<selinuxium> Any ideas?
<gord> popey, i just had what you seemed to experience with recordmydesktop with the gnome screenshot tool, i'd expect its a weird compiz thing
<selinuxium> The Upstart page isn't very helpful... Or I am stupid... Or both..
<bicyclerepairman> ey up. I graphics card and monitor are both capable of resolutions up to 1280x1024, but in the Monitors dialogue, 1024x768 is the highest one available. How can I find out what's going on?
<screen-x> bicyclerepairman: read xorg.0.log and see why it rejected the other modes.
<bigcalm> Check that /etc/X11/xorg.conf isn't limiting your mode choices
<bicyclerepairman> "Not using default mode "1280x1024" (exceeds panel dimensions)"
<bicyclerepairman> I *know* my panel does higher resolutions, I've seen it with my own eyes
<MartijnVdS> your screen is telling your graphics card it only supports up to 1024x768
<bicyclerepairman> even in ubuntu, earlier in boot sequence :-)
<bicyclerepairman> ah so then I suppose I need to delve in and do some hacking?
<bicyclerepairman> :-(
<screen-x> bicyclerepairman: you could try creating an xorg.conf and only giving it one mode to choose from.
<MartijnVdS> or removing it completely
 * MartijnVdS hasn't had a xorg.conf for 3 releases now
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: I use it for twinview
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: ah.. I don't buy nvidia :)
<shauno> I used to only buy nvidia because of the predictability of their drivers.  sad to see so many troubles now :/
<MartijnVdS> I don't buy it because of the predictible breakage of their drivers ;)
<mungojerry> i buy intel so that i'm not tempted to play games ;)
<MartijnVdS> mungojerry: it's getting better
 * bigcalm chuckles
<gord> i use linux so that i'm not tempted to play games ;)
<mungojerry> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-qa/2011-March/001484.html << for nvidia users
<mungojerry> gord: also true
<mungojerry> i tend to prefer indie games anyway..more old school the better
<mungojerry> thats probably old age creeping in
<directhex> i dual-boot windows because i love games
<mungojerry> directhex: how old r u
<mungojerry> if u don't mind me asking..
<bigcalm> I have a Wii console because I hate games
 * mungojerry used to love games in his 20s
<mungojerry> now i don't have the time :(
<directhex> mungojerry, um... 26 or 27. something like that
<mungojerry> my flatmate used to come home and snipe-shoot people from the multistorey car park in GTA3 to unwind
<mungojerry> directhex: enjoy it while you can :)
<directhex> 27 in a couple of weeks, that's the badger
<mungojerry> when i was 27 i bought the game black and white
<mungojerry> to run on my windows machine
<mungojerry> turned out that it would regularly cause windows to crash upon saving your game
<mungojerry> i blame 98/ME though..win xp was not out at the time
<mungojerry> Google have fixed the flash vulnerability in chrome faster than adobe
<directhex> black & white was fairly buggy
<DJones> I don't even want to think what games would have been out when I was 27
<mungojerry> directhex: yeah, after all the hype, i never got past level5 or so due to the insance amount of micromanagement required, and the inevitable BSOD
<directhex> there were only 5 levels, so you got pretty far
<DJones> Ah, Doom was created when I was 27 :)
<BigRedS> Hah. I think I was about 9
<mungojerry> directhex: really? i only got to the level where my monster got tied up
<Myrtti> minecraafffttt
<shauno> rawr?
 * mungojerry remembers to sync his mp3 player for the uupc podcast on the commute home
 * DJones needs a stiff drink, England won a game in the world cup after they looked to be getting battered
 * screen-x needs a sleep
 * BigRedS has a coffee
<MartijnVdS> \o/ new Extra Credits
<MartijnVdS> http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/2921-Tutorials-101
<shauno> ugh.  'Based on your corporate access policies' blah blah blah
<MartijnVdS> shauno: try again at home :)
<shauno> it's no wonder I took a nap this morning.  they've managed to make the internets pretty boring
 * screen-x goes home
<Myrtti> my IRC is broken again
<jpds> Myrtti: Clearly not.
<Myrtti> jpds: I see you fixed it
<bigcalm> http://yfrog.com/h346vyfj
<MartijnVdS> purple? not green today? :)
<bigcalm> I use a yellow highlighter, wouldn't work too well
<popey> bug 664088
<lubotu3> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: 664088 (https://launchpad.net/bugs/664088)
<popey> can anyone see that?
<MartijnVdS> "Page not found"
<bigcalm> Is it the weekend yet?!
<popey> NO!
<MartijnVdS> :(
<daubers> Evening
<popey> Tomorrow I will likely be booking the OggCamp venue.
<daubers> \o/
<BigRedS> ooh! Does that mean there's a decided-upon date for it?
<popey> there is
<screen-x> oooh oogcamp date :D
 * screen-x shakes popey till it falls out
 * popey drops a 3
 * screen-x theorises
<MartijnVdS> 2038 :)
<issyl0> Evening!
<MartijnVdS> \o issyl0
<issyl0> MartijnVdS: :-)
<MartijnVdS> how are things?
<issyl0> Good thanks - and with you?
 * issyl0 tired and in the middle of a French essay (one of three - the other two I don't *have* to do though.)
 * MartijnVdS is watching Youtube videos
<MartijnVdS> work is exhausting :)
<MartijnVdS> was*
<issyl0> Sometimes.
<issyl0> Ah, *was*.  :-(
<MartijnVdS> well it's 20:00 -- not a time to be at work for me ;)
<issyl0> MartijnVdS: Very true.
 * issyl0 doesn't pay attention to the time much in the evenings.
<DJones> issyl0: That sounds likeypical student attitude :)
<DJones> s/likeypical/like a typical
<issyl0> DJones: Hehe.
 * issyl0 isn't one for going to bed at 3 in the morning and getting up at midday.
<MartijnVdS> DJones: hm.. that would explain HazRPG's schedule as well :)
 * issyl0 can't handle lie-ins.
<screen-x> DJones: I didn't even see the error on first reading
<MartijnVdS> issyl0: I wake up at 6 -- whether I want to or not :)
 * issyl0 has been waking up at half past six of her own accord for the past few days.
<MartijnVdS> issyl0: alarmless?
<issyl0> Yep.
<issyl0> Madness, but I enjoy getting up that early.
<MartijnVdS> I've been living alarmless for years now.. I only set one for special occasions (so I don't miss a flight, for example :)
<issyl0> Ah, right.
<issyl0> Any particular reason why you wake up so early?
<MartijnVdS> I think it's because it's 7 hours after I tend to go to sleep :)
<issyl0> Ah - probably!
<DJones> MartijnVdS: I'm about the same, I always wake between 5:30 & 6am
<dutchie> i have been waking up at 11:30 ish all this week
<dutchie> it is lovely
<dutchie> (going to bed around midnight)
<andylockran> howdy
 * DJones kicks dutchie 
<MartijnVdS> I stopped using my alarm clock when I noticed I always woke up 5-10 minutes before it was supposed to go off
<MartijnVdS> and it stuck :)
<MartijnVdS> dutchie: last time I slept longer than 7 hours was a 19:00-7:00 sleep after a 20km run :)
<DJones> Heh, I still put my alarm on, to wake my wife up so she's not late :)
<MartijnVdS> DJones: there must be more gentle ways to wake her up than a beeping alarm clock
<DJones> MartijnVdS: Not that doesn't involve me getting a punch
<issyl0> DJones: Hah!
<MartijnVdS> sounds like a happy marriage ;)
 * MartijnVdS wonders when natty will become less broken
 * dwatkins gets an e-mail from BT who appear to have decided that the ADSL line is ok, which we already knew, but the router is still resetting each day
<MartijnVdS> time to buy a new router ;)
<ali1234> how do you know it is resetting?
<ali1234> and not just disconnecting and reconnecting
<dwatkins> the bt home hub was provided by BT, so I'm loathe to just replace it out of my own money, every couple days it fails such that all wifi devices can no longer see it until it's reset although cabled devices continue to be connected.
<MartijnVdS> tweet angrily about it -- lots of companies monitor twitter now
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: I'm in touch with them because I complained on twitter ;)
<dwatkins> @btcare
<MartijnVdS> :)
<freelore> dwatkins, i had a homehub that was exactly the same
<dwatkins> aha freelore - did you replace it with a proper router?
<freelore> dwatkins, it was the only way. the bt people just denied everything. infact, they insisted it was one of the best routers in the world. no joke.
<dwatkins> freelore: I'm not surprised, I've dealt with at least three separate people so far (including the time I was threatening to cancel because they charged me 150 quid because the system decided I'd cancelled inside my 18 months), I'm thining my only recourse is to threaten to cancel at renewal time because they have supplied what appears to be defective equipment.
<freelore> dwatkins, they kept telling me it was a minor problem with static electricity and the a software update would be forthcoming.
<dwatkins> I'd be amazed if static electricity were to blame here, the router never gets touched except to reset it every 2 or 3 days (sometimes several times per day, however)
<dwatkins> I think I'd rather just get a WRT54G and install the Tomato firmware for fun :D
<freelore> dwatkins, i would never deal with bt again. never. the *worst* customer experience of my life.
<dwatkins> I've not had too many issues with them from a customer service perspective, they just fail to understand and appreciate my problem.
<dwatkins> mind you, that is the definition of a customer service failure...
<dwatkins> ...they're just fairly polite and responsive about it :)
<dwatkins> I have a Buffalo one somehere, perhaps I'll cable it in instead and see how well it performs
<ali1234> it would be easier to just list the companies that have good customer service
<ali1234> i can't think of any at the moment
<freelore> dwatkins, they know how to talk the talk, but it all falls of deaf ears. i'd tell you mroe about it but, "oh, that's not my department -- i'll have to put you though. will you hold the line for a moment?"
<ali1234> this pretty much sums up how customer service works: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYTR280ji4g
<freelore> dwatkins, too big, too many departments, all supervisors hide behind an excuse that they only make outbound calls so leave you waiting for a callback between 8am and 5pm -- you are not busy that day are you?
<freelore> seriously, im not really one for irrational judgement but avoid BT at all costs.
<freelore> i guess that touched a nerve for me. ;)
<freelore> dwatkins, have you tried getting to the internet using just an ip of the website you are connecting to? that used to work for me.
<freelore> i did ask them why it was that i could get out to the net using by typing an ip directly, yet dns queries were not able to resolve. they said it was static electricity again.
<freelore> i guessed that maybe it was something to do with some kind of caching
<ali1234> yeah routers these days like to run a dns cache
<ali1234> you can hop straight over it
<freelore> dwatkins, do you use bittorrent on your homehub?
<ali1234> just tell your PC to ignore the DNS servers provided on DHCP
<ali1234> bittorrent is a good way to kill any router that doesn't have custom firmware
<MartijnVdS> bufferbloat.net :)
<ali1234> for some reason router manufacturers are incapable of configuring linux kernel nat parameters in a way that actually works
<ali1234> making this not happen is literally just a matter of tweaking some settings in proc
<dwatkins> freelore: ironically, the connection dropped just as I was about to reply to you again
<freelore> dwatkins, lol
<dwatkins> freelore: when the problem occurrs, all wifi devices are unable to connect to wifi until the home hub gets reset
<dwatkins> I think I have Google's DNS server set on my laptop, also.
<directhex> you're putting me off Infinity here
<freelore> dwatkins, i switched to virgin media -- though i use talktalk nowadays
<dwatkins> directhex: I have BT's unlimited broadband tarif which cots me 23 pounds per month plus line rental
<dwatkins> freelore: yeah, I would have used VM if I could have.
<ali1234> you think BT customer service is worse than talktalk?
<directhex> dwatkins, yeah, but they use a homehub for Infinity too
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: heh, no my schedule is because I make my own schedule
<directhex> although any PPPoE router should work
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: not because you're a student? :)
<freelore> ali1234, i've never needed to call talktalk ;)
<dwatkins> I work in customer services myself, so I know how they tend to work. The trick is to get through to someone in the UK who you can explain the problem to in full and they won't just respond with a link to a knowledgebase article and close your case.
<ali1234> freelore: you're in for some fun if you ever do
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Got a HND...
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: yes, like I said.. student ;)
<MartijnVdS> *runs*
<freelore> ali1234, don't depress me :D
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: heh... well I was doing a degree top-up as they call it (which is a year), but student financing has recently screwed that up for me because the uni has stupid rules :/. So they've essentially (paraphrasing) kicked me off because they weren't getting their money. Which resulted in me being unable to log in to anything at the uni (even the digital register to prove that I was there)... and bleh. Complicated. I'm getting work, currently hav
<MartijnVdS> currently hav[cut off here]
<HazRPG> I have experience in the field already anyways 1 year when I was doing the HND, and one year before doing that too (which I got just by chance)
<HazRPG> If I can get there's site punched out quick enough, looks like I'll be having a good partnership with these 2 fellows (one does DB work, the other design)... and another guy I've done work with in the past, which was my reference point for the year experience that I got before doing my HND
<HazRPG> I just need to get my self-employment sorted out (which I'm still doing research for) so that everything is sweet
<MartijnVdS> self-employment is a lot of work imho :)
<HazRPG> all else fails, my dad's been offering me a job in Saudi for years since he knows I'm more than capable for the job (he's seen me do it many times, and has even asked for advice to pass on to some of the nit-wits he has working for them)
<MartijnVdS> always nice to have a backup plan
<HazRPG> I'd rather just find work myself first and see how that works out... because I think I could do well for myself, but at least I know I have backup if all goes badly
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: indeed :)
<Martiini> how do I search specific repository ?? does this look right -  aptitude search '~S ~i (!~Alaunchpad  ~O"kernel")'
<HazRPG> I won't know what self-employment is like, till I've tried it... and since my name seems to be passed around because of friends my dad knows around this area, so far I haven't had trouble
<MartijnVdS> it's easier to start off self-employed than to go self-employed when you already have a "normal" job
<MartijnVdS> imho
<freelore> anyone know how to add the volume applet back to the menubar? (ubuntu 10.10 desktop)
<MartijnVdS> sound volume?
<MartijnVdS> just add the indicator applet, it should be in there
<freelore> MartijnVdS, yes. i removed it mistakenly.
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: heh, I did start off self-employed first, which landed me a year contract with a company... but they knew I was going to do my HND after that year, so they didn't renew on that basis - since they didn't want me to screw up my education
<HazRPG> however self-employed in the sense that I did one job (cash in hand) type style
<freelore> i can't seem to find it in the add to panel dialogue
<MartijnVdS> freelore: the indicator applet?
<freelore> MartijnVdS, yes the indicator applet. i didn't know it was both volume and also tied into the setup mail, broadcast, chat, etc.. stuff.
<freelore> anyway to just have a volume control without that other main/broadcast/chat part?
<HazRPG> anyways got my HND now... and another year experience (for unpaid work, because that's how HND courses go)... my name was passed from my tutor who started doing freelance stuff again after I finished my HND (long story), and so I've been in contact with those two - which is where the work I'm doing now is for... and they want more work, and also the guy I did work for the very first time has asked for more work now (almost 2-3 years later), which is 
<HazRPG> I'll shush now lol
 * HazRPG /endrant
<MartijnVdS> haha
<MartijnVdS> freelore: no, I don't think so
<freelore> MartijnVdS, a pity. do you know the reason why they are combined?
<MartijnVdS> freelore: that's a LONG story, read up on the Ubuntu/Canonical design team + their work for that
<freelore> MartijnVdS, care to try giving me a brief synopsis?
<ali1234> you can have "just" a volume control
<MartijnVdS> freelore: The old "system tray" was overused/misused, and the new indicator API/applet replaces it. It's more menu-like.
<ali1234> all you have to do is remove the indicator tray thing and go back to using the old one
<freelore> MartijnVdS, thanks ;)
<freelore> ali1234, thanks. its ok though, it doesn't sound like it's worth the hassle.
<ali1234> it isn't
<ali1234> i could actually remove the whole thing since none of it works anyway
<freelore> i do like the way rhythmbox appears there compared to the old volume slider
<ZoeR> Hei!
<ZoeR> Was it something I said?
<ZoeR> :D
<ali1234> i don't use rhythmbox, empathy, evolution, gnome-bluetooth, or pulseaudio, so none of the indicator applet stuff works for me
<MartijnVdS> luddite ;)
<ali1234> it just sits on the screen taking up space
<ali1234> i use spotify, pidgin, gmail, blueman, and alsa instead
<ali1234> some are older, some are newer
<ali1234> all are better
<MartijnVdS> I disagree :)
<MartijnVdS> except on the gmail bit
<ZoeR> gmail is indeed lovely
<freelore> here's one: if i swapped my motherboard, and boot from the same hdd, would all the hardware changed be detected? with new stuff added, old stuff removed and such? or would it be best to perform a clean install?
<ali1234> you have all the drivers installed by default
<ali1234> the only thing that will break is your network config if you have customized it
<freelore> ali1234, no, just network manager. so their are no permanent configurations that are setup during install which would need to be changed?
<ali1234> no
<freelore> by permanent i suppose i mean 'hard coded' in the config
<ali1234> well, video card settings maybe
<freelore> i use a discrete ati card
<DJones> I was just going to say if its built in video with different drivers could cause problems
<ali1234> the installer itself does not make any hardware specific customizations
<freelore> ali1234, useful to know.
<ali1234> the restricted driver manager does, and network manager does, but only if you tell it
<DJones> I've taken a drive from one machine and put it in a different one, it took a couple of reboots, but everything worked with no problems
<ali1234> i do it regularly
<ali1234> never had any problems
<ali1234> the worst thing that can happen is xorg doesn't start
<ali1234> then you just wipe the xorg.conf and try again
<freelore> xorg config is dynamically generated when it isn't present isn't it?
<ali1234> yes
<freelore> i'll try that route then. with a sensible data backup plan before the upgrade -- whats the worst that can happen? :D the full reinstall i was planning on doing in the first place.
<freelore> by the way, you folks are much better than google at these ubuntu questions :D thanks for all the help.
<ZoeR> An ubuntu chatroom being better than google at ubuntu? Who would have guessed? :
<ZoeR> :D
<DJones> freelore: Do you have /home on seperate partition? If it is, that would reduce any problems on reinstall anyway
<HazRPG> ZoeR: \o :)
<HazRPG> DJones: I do :), I always setup my home on a separate partition as standard :)
 * ZoeR should really do that some time
<freelore> DJones, no i just went with the defaults at install and have a single large partition with everything in it
<AlanBell> evening all
<freelore> i was considering getting a second (much larger) hard drive and putting /home on there
<ZoeR> evening
<DJones> freelore: ok, you can reinstall specifying but telling the partition manager not to format which should save any data as well,although thats something I've never tried
<DJones> specifying the original partition
<freelore> DJones, so it would install *over* the files that already there?
 * ZoeR has been looking at KolibriOS lately. Anyone ever tried it?
<DJones> freelore: Yes, thats the idea behind it
<HazRPG> AlanBell: meeting on soon right?
 * HazRPG wondering why else my phone would be ringing away at this time if it wasn't
<HazRPG> also, good evening AlanBell :)
<DJones> Thats better
<ZoeR> That's a lot of bans. Did I miss a trollfest or something?
<DJones> ZoeR: No, just 3 from the same date a while back, I'd forgotten to remove them & when I did, it didn't quite work correctly
<DJones> HazRPG: I get the feeling the meeting may have been forgotten about
<popey> meeting in -uk-meeting btw :)
 * HazRPG pokes people to join the meeting
<ZoeR> what meeting?
<ZoeR> Is this the super secret meeting of the new old new world order?
<BigRedS> Oooh. That sounds more fun than the debugging of dovecot I came here for :)
<ZoeR> My brain hurts
<DJones> ZoeR: Its the ubuntu-uk regular meeting, join #ubuntu-uk-meeting if you want to take part
 * ZoeR rubs her boozed-up head
 * ZoeR really should avoid St Patrick's day
<freelore> ZoeR, how much did you drink?
<ZoeR> 2 cans
<ZoeR> and yes that makes me sound like a lightweight
<ZoeR> but i should point out that i'm not supposed to drink, so i think it's excusable
<ZoeR> i have a note from my mum
<ZoeR> it's not in my handwriting. honest.
<freelore> 2 cans of what?
<ZoeR> caffreys
<ZoeR> I would have preferred guiness but the shop had run out
<freelore> i use to quite like guiness myself
<ZoeR> it makes me sneeze but at least it doesn't give me headaches, like this muck did
<freelore> i gave up drinking a few months ago
<ZoeR> Do you feel healthier for it?
<freelore> i didnt have a problem or anything -- just prefer to be keep a clear head these days and thought; why not draw a line?
 * ZoeR nods
<freelore> yeah, much better
<ZoeR> I usually don't drink but every now and then I'll have the odd one with friends
<ZoeR> Then regret it for days after
<freelore> yeah, i dont miss that at all
<ZoeR> :)
<freelore> i wasnt even a heavy drinker
<ZoeR> I can't understand the people who go out and get bladdered every weekend.
<freelore> nor me -- what is wrong with breaking / fixing linux installs? much more satisfying. if you do it too much you still get a headache, too. quite similar i'd say.
<ZoeR> Yes but Linux is cheeper
<freelore> 'free as in beer' as they say
<freelore> not sure if the person who coined that phrase lived in the uk
<ZoeR> I was thinking the same thing
<freelore> dwatkins, homehub again?
<ZoeR> welcome back
 * bigcalm welcomes his new Alan overlords
<AlanBell> bigcalm: resistance is futile
<freelore> resistance will be embraced and extended
<Picard> Resistance is not futile
 * Picard goes a bit crazy and smashes up the ready room
<freelore> Picard, Jean-Luc! I've got a good question for you.
<Picard> Let's blow up the ship!
<freelore> Seriously, I've been wanting to ask you for ages.
<Picard> Yes, freelore?
<freelore> Picard, really -- if I ever bumped into you -- I was going to ask.
<AlanBell> capacitance has potential
<freelore> Picard, the question is... the one I've been wanting to ask for, like, ever... is...
<freelore> Picard, how many lights do you see?
<Picard> There... are... four... lights!
<freelore> lol :D
<ZoeR> Sorry about that. Don't know what came over me.
<freelore> I wish TNG never ended. But then again, All good things...
<ZoeR> heh
<freelore> still, the new movie was pretty good. and a sequel is in production.
<ZoeR> Yes, the 2009 film was great. :)
<ZoeR> However, I'm not sure I will ever be able to look at McCoy without thinking "Eomer, what have you done to your hair?"
<ZoeR> And now McCoy is going to be Judge Dredd. What is the world coming to?
<ZoeR> It's like one guy has suddenly become the nexus of my entire childhood.
<freelore> i thought it was very, very, very well done. lots of stuff that would go over a non-fans head but without it being in the way.
<ZoeR> My only problem with the new trek was vulcan. I still think that was unnecessary.
<mgdm> indeed.
<mgdm> Karl Urban was ace as McCoy, IMO
<freelore> ZoeR, i thought it was very bold and brilliant
<freelore> no one-on-one duels to the death under the vulcan sky though
<ZoeR> Oh I'll grant you it was bold but, if I'm honest, it's not right up there with stuff I've seen so many times in comics over the years. We need something original, not something that is just there to initiate angst
<freelore> angst? i was overjoyed! i can't stand the pointy-eared, green-blooded, inhuman...
<mgdm> :D
<ZoeR> angst for spork, not for you
<ZoeR> spock, even
<freelore> yeah i know what you're saying there
<freelore> of all the things that i loved, the one thing that got to me was the motorola product placement
<freelore> cheapened things a bit for me
<freelore> i also loved that it was a prequel, sequel and reboot all in one
<ZoeR> yes, that was a nice touch
<ZoeR> well I'd better be going. House is on in 15 minutes and I have to record it or my wife will kick my arse
<ZoeR> cya later, everyone
<daubers> Uuuhhhh... someone said I had an action??
 * daubers is very confused
<HazRPG> hmm... apparently I'll be controlling Mootbot-UK next week !
<HazRPG> daubers: action?
<daubers> I was hilighted in -meeting, something about being actioned for something
<alexcockell> BBC just reported - UN are now voting..
<alexcockell> Hopefully NATO will bonb the fuck out fo Gadaffi
<jacobw> !language
<lubotu3> Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family-friendly, polite, and professional.
<alexcockell> Sorry
<alexcockell> Just been a tad angry... fromt he humanitatian aspect
<jacobw> I think it was justified to be fair ;)
<alexcockell> Sorry about the typos - just a tad hacked off at the delay - but we need the whupping to be legal..
<alexcockell> But I hope he'll be waking up to lots of cratered runways... and BLU-755s ruining his day...
<alexcockell> Sorry - was also connected to Telecomix's server - and hadn't toniced where the focus was..
<alexcockell> *noticed
<BigRedS> bah. Gnome's save dialog doesn't do command substitution
<freelore> best way of getting an ipod nano to work with ubuntu?
<ali1234> install rockbox on it
<AlanJenkins> gtkpod or what ali1234 said if there is support =)
<freelore> ali1234, tried. i can't with this model.
<AlanJenkins> not tried with a recent nano but i have had luck with my iphone with gtkpod so am guessing it should work for a nano
<freelore> is virtualbox + windows + itunes just daft?
<AlanJenkins> nope that works but its a faff
<dwatkins> hackintosh dual boot? ;)
<AlanJenkins> dwatkins: that sounds like more fun if your computer is hackintosh compatible
<AlanJenkins> never had any luck myself though
<dwatkins> AlanJenkins: if you're prepared to replace the wifi adapter, the Eee 1005HA is very hackintoshable.
<freelore> prob inappropriate but where can i find a hackintosh iso?
<ali1234> "the usual place"
<dwatkins> freelore: an Apple store ;)
<freelore> understood
 * dwatkins is using a Macbook Pro right now to talk to you lot, so is understandably a little pro Apple
<AlanJenkins> cool, I have a macbook pro that I bought last week now though =) (what i am talking on)
<freelore> i like apple, but they are too expensive for me
<AlanJenkins> lol snap dwatkins =)
<dwatkins> I considered triple-booting this MBP like my other half did, but it seems like a lot of hassle when I'll probably not use 2/3rds of the OSs much, I prefer having a virtual machine available
<AlanJenkins> not dual booted this yet though, you got yours in ubuntu?
<dwatkins> Also, sound doesn't work on this model under Ubuntu yet
<dwatkins> if you go for triple boot, backup everything first
<freelore> and get a bigger disk
<AlanJenkins> 750gb in this one should  be fine =), not checked on hardware support yet though, dwatkins was the sound not supported in the latest mbp? or are you talking about the gen before?
<AlanJenkins> possibly same chip though =/
<dwatkins> AlanJenkins: i have a core2duo, also she got a 750 gb disk too
<freelore> 750 in a mdp?
<freelore> *mbp
<AlanJenkins> yep freelore its one of the new i7 17inch ones
<freelore> thats a lot of data to leave on the train
<freelore> wb ZoeR
<AlanJenkins> wb ZoeR
<ZoeR> Thanks :)
<dwatkins> freelore: she also has a 1.5 TB external backup disk
<ZoeR> Erk! It's hard to type on this phone app. :(
<freelore> i hope the MoD don't start using them
<freelore> not the way they lose laptops
<ZoeR> Did I miss much?
<AlanJenkins> on the subject of macbook pros now ZoeR
<AlanJenkins> otherwise no not really
<ZoeR> Ah right.
<freelore> i was just talking about the new mbp with the 750gb hard drive. thats a lot of data to leave on a train.
<dwatkins> freelore: this is what we got her, it seems to work fine in her 15" MBP which is now triple booted (yes, including Ubuntu): http://www.dabs.com/products/seagate-750gb-momentus-7200rpm-sata-300-16mb-2-5--78YB.html
<AlanJenkins> nice
<AlanJenkins> good cache size on that disk =)
<dwatkins> it was the only 750 GB disk I could find which was supported
<AlanJenkins> best thing about this thing though for me is the battery life, longest i have ever had in a laptop =)
<dwatkins> the difficult part was triple-booting, as windows stomps all over the master boot loader and you have to be very careful of the partition order
<dwatkins> AlanJenkins: try a 1005HA Eee ;)
<AlanJenkins> whats the life on that one dwatkins ?
<dwatkins> in practical terms about 8 hours, although the blurb says 10.5
<AlanJenkins> yikes thats nice
<AlanJenkins> this ones blurb says 7 but i get 5ish
<dwatkins> I have a 901 Eee and it's great but a bit slow now, and I had to get a huge battery for it to make it useable
<ZoeR> Bah. Got to go.
<AlanJenkins> kk catch you later ZoeR
<dwatkins> ciao
<duvelhedz> Happy st Paddys day everyone!
<dwatkins> woohoo
<popey> hmm?
<ali1234> is there a library for language detection in the repos?
<duvelhedz_> Who is coming to the rugby meet up on Sat?
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List:  http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines -  http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting Thursday March 31st 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting  http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | Quiz Night: 16th April 21:00 | Odd Shaped Balls \o/ http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/615/deta
<AlanBell> fail
<mgdm> o_O
<AlanBell> duvelhedz_: list is here http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/615/detail/
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List:  http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines -  http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting Thursday March 31st 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting  http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | Quiz Night: 16th April 21:00 | Odd Shaped Balls http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/615/detail/
<AlanJenkins> right guys i have to run
<AlanJenkins> catch you again soon
 * daubers dislikes politics
<dwatkins> there was politics?
<dwatkins> I must have been busy doing the washing-up.
<daubers> If anyone is any semblance of awake, can I have soe eyeballs on this please? It appears I was actioned to write this lot down :) http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UUKElectionProcess
<shauno> sucker :p
<daubers> shauno: I seemed to have been volunteered
<daubers> I'll throw that etherpad out to the mailing list so it can have more eyeballs, then I can go to bed having done the first part of that action
<shauno> I'd try to nitpick, as it seems to be all I'm good for.  but I couldn't possibly claim to be awake atm
<daubers> heh, that's why I'll send it to the list and let people nitpick over the next few days
<shauno> lesson learnt; don't volunteer to be oncall between 12hr shifts.  it's just stupid.
<daubers> Email away!
<freelore> anyone know about rhythmbox settings?
<freelore> it seems mine is unable to transfer songs to my ipod if they are in m4a format
<freelore> it claims the ipod can't play them
<freelore> and that it can't transcode them
 * daubers heads to bed
<freelore> but ipods can play that format ;)
<freelore> is there something i'm missing?
<freelore> all im really finding on google is a load of howtos written for people who *want* to convert m4a to mp3
<freelore> im inches away from getting off windows + itunes :S
 * dutchie pokes daubers with excess apostrophes in ML post
<bigcalm> Is REGEX a MySQL only function?
 * dutchie pokes daubers with lots of spelling typos in the etherpad (and fixes)
<freelore> anyone have any idea where i might find an answer?
<freelore> google is just throwing up forum posts from 2007 / 08
<freelore> i guess this issue has been solved?
<dutchie> freelore: the first step i'd take is checking to see how many gstreamer-plugins-<something> packages i had installed
<freelore> dutchie, which would you advise?
<dutchie> as many as possible :)
<freelore> switch to the multiverse variants?
<dutchie> though someone with more knowledge would be able to give a better, more specific answer
<dutchie> you may well need to
<freelore> i see
<freelore> i really don't know but it seems to me to be more a case of rhythmbox just not being aware of the formats the ipod can play (assuming it can only play mp3, thus needing to convert songs on-the-fly)
<freelore> as though all it would take is a setting somewhere, that i would be able to change ".mp3" to ".mp3;.m4a"
<freelore> know what i mean?
<dutchie> yeah, ipods are a pain on linux
<freelore> it updates the database fine
<freelore> just seems to think it can't play m4a
<shauno> I believe faad is in the gstreamer 'bad plugins' package
<shauno> (faad takes care of aac/m4a & I believe apple-lossless too)
<freelore> but would that be required for rhythmbox to transfer the files to the ipod?
<freelore> rhythmbox can 'see' the files just fine
<freelore> plays them, etc.
<shauno> not sure in that case :)
<freelore> yeah, strange isn't it?
<jacobw> is evolution going to be the default mail client in natty?
<shauno> (it would need to be able to play them, or atleast parse their metadata to write the ipod's db, but you've already got that far)
<freelore> shauno, exactly
<freelore> i'll have to live with transcoding them to mp3 each time i sync
<freelore> which seems wrong
<freelore> hopefully the next version of ubuntu will have this problem fixed
<shauno> are the tracks purchased from the itunes store by any chance?
<freelore> unless its not a problem and i just don't know how to reconfigure it :D
<freelore> but people seem to be complaining about this behaviour since 2007
<freelore> shauno, no. they drm free.
<jacobw> is it excessive to keep 8000 emails?
<freelore> jacobw, are they all for those blue pills?
<freelore> if so, yes
<shauno> I used to have about 12 years' worth, but lost them in a silly accident :)
<jacobw> i will read them one day..
<jacobw> high volume mailing lists, i assume someone must use evolution to handle this volume of email
<jacobw> *someone else
<ali1234> i get about that many emails per week from mailing lists, evolution cannot cope at all
<ali1234> nor can any email client i ever tried for that matter
<freelore> this transcoding thing is really bugging me  -- anywhere else i could look for an answer?
<dutchie> freelore: banshee :)
<ali1234> transcoding?
<dutchie> or some other client
<freelore> ali1234, syncing my ipod with rhythmbox, rhythmbox tells me that the ipod doesn't support m4a and wont transfer the tracks -- but it will dynamically transcode them to mp3
<ali1234> ah
<ali1234> dunno about that
<freelore> ipods popularised the m4a format, didn't they?
<freelore> i mean, huh??
<ali1234> can't say i have ever heard of it, so yeah
<hamitron> m4a?
<ali1234> i use ffmpeg to transcode things manually
<freelore> m4a, aac+mp4 container renamed to m4a
<freelore> thing is, i don't need to transcode
<freelore> the ipod supports the format
<freelore> what! i just spent 20 minutes transcoding my library and now there is nothing on the pod?! i give up.
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> tried gtkpod?
<slackthumbz> you could get a media player that doesn't suck...
<freelore> yeah but it is a bit awkward
<freelore> slackthumbz, yeah there is that. i had hoped to liberate it with rockbox. no such luck. apple encrypt the bootloader on these later models to prevent just that.
<slackthumbz> typical apple :(
<slackthumbz> I just use my phone,it's an n900 and has 32gb of storage built in + supports ajust about every media format I've ever heard of
<ali1234> hmm encrypted bootloader is really the only roadblock to rockbox?
<ali1234> sounds like a challenge
<freelore> plus reverse engineering
<shauno> it's really not worth the fight.  rockbox is aweful.
<freelore> and apple lawyers, i believe
<HazRPG> I keep reading that, what is rockbox?
<ali1234> custom firmware for mp3 players
<freelore> its a firmware replacement for media players
<ali1234> no proprietary file transfer nonsense
<freelore> pretty crude but quite capable
<ali1234> just drag and drop the files to the flash drive
#ubuntu-uk 2011-03-18
<shauno> last time I tried it, it had none of that power-management nonsense either.  got a month out of it before I needed to break into my ipod to replace the battery
<HazRPG> cool
<HazRPG> wow, that puts new meaning to stuff I've been reading recently
<freelore> what have you been reading?
<HazRPG> hardware hacks
<freelore> ah
<ali1234> yeah power management is always the last thing to get implemented and it really hurts things like mobile distros
<shauno> lp claims this rhythmbox thing was fixed in 10.04
<ali1234> for example meego-n900
<freelore> shauno, oh?
<ali1234> no power management = can't use it as a phone
<shauno> bug 164265 looks like the one?
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 164265 in Rhythmbox "Transferring AAC files to iPod is broken" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164265
<ali1234> not a mobile phone anyway
<shauno> power management should be the first thing they get working in mobile devices, not the last
<slackthumbz> aye, that's why I'm sticking with maemo on my n900 till meego has matured
<shauno> because a mobile device with a flat battery has zero features.
<ali1234> shauno: i agree, and i told the meego-n900 people same on several occasions :)
<ali1234> but seems like the people who can actually fix it (nokia) are more interested in making the n900 a development platform than an actual usable device
<slackthumbz> well
<slackthumbz> nokia have jumped into bed with MS
<ali1234> they still have a lot of resources in meego
<freelore> ali1234, you gotta emulate to accumulate
<freelore> or something
<slackthumbz> unsurprising considering that Stephen Elop is an ex-MS guy with a ton of shares in, you guessed it,MS
<ali1234> wut?
<ali1234> slackthumbz: he also sold macromedia to adobe :)
<freelore> nokia making a mobile app platform
<freelore> copying the trends
<slackthumbz> ali1234: can't say I like the guy, he seems to be a complete idiot
<freelore> n/m, i was rambling just then
<ali1234> freelore: ah yeah, that's not what i mean
<shauno> nokia's so hung up on this ecosystem thing they seem to think completely passed them by, but in the process has kinda forgot to ship any compelling products.  and they wonder where they're going wrong
<ali1234> freelore: what i mean is they see it as a device for developers only, ie always tethered to a development box and power supply, so PM is not important
<ali1234> that's the impression i get anyway
<shauno> that's just going to teach third-party devs to be as bad as they are, if everyone's working to the assumption power's never an issue
<ali1234> shauno: nothing new there :(
<alexcockell> What - AGAIN?
<ali1234> they will do that anyway
<shauno> I've seen inside my phone.  it's 3/4 battery.  power is the only issue.
<alexcockell> So a battery life of 1-2 days like with the N900?
<ali1234> alexcockell: no
<ali1234> alexcockell: a battery life of 1-2 hours and the CPU running at max all the time
<alexcockell> What use is that?
<slackthumbz> you might get 1 - 2 days if you hardly use it
<alexcockell> I *USE* my N900..
<slackthumbz> same
<ali1234> no, because even if you don't use it, it will currently run the CPU at maximum power, and not power off any devices
<ali1234> i'm sure it will get fixed eventually
<slackthumbz> well, 1 - 2 days on maemo. I've not tried meego yet.
<ali1234> but it should have been fixed first not last
 * alexcockell facepalm
<ali1234> if meego had the same PM as maemo it would be fine
<ali1234> but currently it has none at all
<ali1234> (on n900)
<alexcockell> Umm - why on earth did they blow so much time changing all the substrate like power mgt etc?
<alexcockell> and package mgt?
<ali1234> alexcockell: because they wanted to just switch to using moblin and moblin used rpm
<ali1234> meego is pretty much moblin renamed
<hamitron> ali1234: weren't you suggesting I got a N900? ;/
<ali1234> sure
<slackthumbz> just don't use meego
<hamitron> even though it is shit?
<ali1234> maemo is OK
<hamitron> poor
<freelore> anyone got an opinion on the sansa clip+?
<hamitron> ;/
<slackthumbz> and the n900 is an awesome phone
<ali1234> maemo isn't perfect but it mostly works and some parts of it are awesome true
<ali1234> meego is still nowhere near ready on the n900 though
<ali1234> remains to be seen what the nokia mystery device will be like
<slackthumbz> physical keyboard + xterm on a phone is incredibly handy for me
<freelore> haven't nokia jumped into bed with ms + wp7?
<ali1234> yes
<slackthumbz> ali1234: whatever it is it'll run WP&
<slackthumbz> wp7*
<ali1234> but they still are commited to releasing 1 meego device
<hamitron> I don't need a phone to be a phone, but N900 costs a lot
<hamitron> :/
<slackthumbz> and therefore will be a total waste of hardware
<ali1234> of course that could change... nobody really believes anything nokia says anymore
<ali1234> also they have not even confirmed the 1 meego device will be a phone
<ali1234> could be a tablet, could be a netbook, could be a digital TV receiver... could be some crazy device nobody even thought of
<freelore> i think they have lost the plot
<hamitron> they have to offer some higher end devices with other OS, purely to attract developers of apps for their low end phones?
<HazRPG> shauno: bit late... but its like saying "the playstation has no games!"
<alexcockell> My N900 is on a Carphone Warehouse O2 contract - before O2 reduced the 3G data limits
<slackthumbz> alexcockell: mine too
<freelore> what are they going to do with Qt now they are all but ms's hardware division?
<shauno> HazRPG: I don't follow
<ali1234> freelore: ironically, they are going to port it to android :)
<hamitron> won't they need Qt for low end phones?
<ali1234> no
<freelore> ali1234, they sound desperate. trying anything, see what sticks.
<ali1234> freelore: the irony is that Qt people wanted to port to android officially but couldn't because it would look odd for nokia... but now nokia is with MS, they can...
<hamitron> aren't they intending to still ship symbian phones though?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> symbian isn;t low end
<freelore> symbian has seen better days
<shauno> I think desperate's a pretty apt word for it.  they've just seem the biggest cashcow in the market just completely overtake them overnight
<hamitron> windows phone 7 does look interesting to be fair
<ali1234> i prefer my symbian phone to my n900 for typical use
<slackthumbz> hamitron: it's barely beta in terms of feature completeness
<ali1234> the email client is miles better for example
<hamitron> slackthumbz: and android is a moving target
<slackthumbz> doesn't touch ios, android or even maemo
<ali1234> (see earlier complaint about how nothing can handle my mailbox)
<freelore> i've never seen a symbian phone that didn't feel underpowered
<ali1234> symbian^3 runs super fast
<ali1234> it's really smooth compared to maemo
<hamitron> I like symbian the best tbh
<ali1234> but stuff like S60 5e really ruined symbian's reputation
<freelore> isn't symbian^3 the one thats not to be confused with the rather old symbian 3?
<ali1234> the symbian numbering makes no sense at all
<ali1234> don't even try to understand it
<freelore> a bit like ferrari f1 cars
<hamitron> or most cars ;/
<ali1234> it makes even less sense than the way ati and nvidia number their video cards
<hamitron> and cpu
<hamitron> and gpu :D
<freelore> or even apu
<hamitron> android has really been over hyped though, imo
<freelore> tho i thought apu had already been taken by the sound card people
<hamitron> my symbian phone makes phone calls.... I can develop apps, also have an ovi store
<freelore> ovi store... lol
<freelore> its no apple app store
<ali1234> yeah, ovi store... it's no fun
<hamitron> ovi store is good tbh
<ali1234> it has so many usability problems...
<freelore> well, it works. put it that way.
<hamitron> also get free sat nav
<freelore> thats becoming standard everywhere
<ali1234> the mapping tech they bought it pretty good
<freelore> still prefer google maps though
<hamitron> doesn't android need online access for google maps?
<ali1234> yeah
<hamitron> so no good on a budget
<freelore> oh yeah mean offline sat nav?
<hamitron> yeh, ovi maps is offline
<freelore> *yeah = you
<popey> there are offline maps apps on android
<freelore> i didn't know that
<ali1234> ovi maps is both
<popey> most use openstreetmap
<hamitron> popey: as good?
<hamitron> ah, ok
<ali1234> it will download maps you don't have, or you can preload them, and all the maps are free
<popey> i never found ovi maps to be any good
<ali1234> the ovi maps program on n900 suuuuuuuuucked
<hamitron> I've travelled many miles with ovi maps
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> the symbian one is much better
<HazRPG> shauno: never, can't find where you said something similar but for different platforms
<hamitron> main thing that puts me off android, is all the OS versions
<freelore> yes, and the 'will i get the update' lottery
<hamitron> I don't expect to have to upgrade OS so often
<shauno> I still find that funny
<shauno> apple tell you you're due 2 OS upgrades past what you bought, people get mad.
<shauno> android leave you guessing ...
<hamitron> both suck ;)
<freelore> not forgetting the 'yes, the updates are coming.' rumours
 * hamitron rubs his nokia ngage
 * ali1234 listens to some fleetwood mac
<freelore> i'm waiting for the iphone nano
<freelore> you know itll happen
<hamitron> no micro first?
<hamitron> :/
<dwatkins> freelore: I'd like a badge that's a phone
<freelore> yeah, with a delta shield man!
<freelore> and gold trim
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> I want a phone with an i3 cpu
<ali1234> why not atom?
<ali1234> those are actually available
<ali1234> not on a budget though
<hamitron> i3 would double up as hand warmers
<ali1234> so does atom :/
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> a commamd line phone ftw
<freelore> with a battery that comes in a stylish holdall
 * HazRPG plays on his dreamcast
<hamitron> use the "call" command to dial
<ali1234> that's pretty much meego right now :)
<hamitron> it has won me over then
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> i threatened to make a ncurses dialer interface for ofono before
<ali1234> maybe i should actually do it
<hamitron> if you have a phone so poor, nobody would want it, no gf can read private texts, nobody would want to steal it
<dwatkins> There are plenty of terminal applications for Android, can you not dial from the command line?
<hamitron> remove the GUI entirely!
<freelore> if your gf reads your private texts, you should get a new gf
 * dwatkins looks this up on iphone 
<dwatkins> freelore: why not just get texts she can read?
<freelore> or maybe if she reads your private texts, you will *need* to get a new gf
<hamitron> lucky for me I am so useless at using my phone, nobody ever texts me
<freelore> dwatkins, i wasn't advocating it ;) just sayin'
<slackthumbz> or you could, y'know, have a relationship built on trust and mutual respect for each others privacy...
<hamitron> it is always orange txting me to say i have no qualified for magic numbers this month
<hamitron> not*
<freelore> slackthumbz, what are you -- some kinda new ager?
<slackthumbz> lolwut
<slackthumbz> I hate hippies
<freelore> with your crazy ideas about trust and respect
<slackthumbz> lulz
<freelore> no place for that in a marriage
<slackthumbz> crazy sandal-wearing motherf***ers
<hamitron> the lack of trust makes it interesting anyway
<hamitron> ;)
<freelore> marriage is no less than mental warfare
<slackthumbz> I've managed to avoid marriage quite succesfully so far
<shauno> in a desperate attempt to drag this back to 'somewhat on-topic', I'll let you know I love my iphone, and think you're all nuts :)
<popey> *cough*
<hamitron> shauno: "love"? ;/
<freelore> i was joking by the way ;)
<slackthumbz> shauno: lol, I'll never buy a device I have 'jailbreak' just to use in a way that I want to.
 * hamitron hands popey a bottle of calpol
<slackthumbz> have to*
<freelore> do you think a truly open phone will exist?
<slackthumbz> perhaps, maemo isn't bad. If meego actually matures into a decent system then yes.
<shauno> let me know when you find a telco that aren't evil, with an unhealthy dose of "lost, confused, and not entirely sure how to package the internet as minutes"
<hamitron> if you build one, it mainly could. apart from a few IC
<shauno> then we can worry about a phone that makes use of them :)
<slackthumbz> heh
<slackthumbz> a fair point
<hamitron> isn't the interweb Mb now?
<slackthumbz> mine is
<slackthumbz> 1gb per month included in my conract
<slackthumbz> contract*
<hamitron> 1 quid for 24 hours use on mine iirc
<shauno> hamitron: sure.  I get n many minutes, n many texts, and n many megs.  hence 'trying to package them as minutes'
<freelore> i love the fair user stuff. "unlimited internet, limited to exactly 1000mb"
<hamitron> but I just use my DSL through bluetooth
<freelore> *use
<shauno> and heaven forbid you try to use another country's internet
<slackthumbz> heh, I'm in the philippines right now. Haven't seen any mobile broadband so far
<shauno> (I did that once, that vacation cost me more in phone bills than hotels)
<slackthumbz> but then again the infrastrtucture here is more 3rd world than yorkshire
<hamitron> leave yorkshire out of it
<hamitron> ;/
<slackthumbz> monty python reference
<freelore> and now for something completely different
<slackthumbz> indeed
<slackthumbz> g'night all
<freelore> night slackthumbz
<hamitron> like minecraft me thinks
<hamitron> :)
<freelore> i should be going too. i'll never be up in time to take the kids to school at this rate. night all.
<hamitron> laters
<freelore> thanks for all the help, btw
<shauno> funny you should mention that, I'm losing my mind digging a huge subway tunnel atm :(
<freelore> ;)
<hamitron> shauno: where?
<shauno> in the floor man
<shauno> I gotta say, tunnels aren't very interesting endeavors.  it feels like being stuck in an Aniston commercial
<shauno> so, if you dig a tunnel so far that it exceeds the render distance, it doesn't tail off into darkness.  the 'fog' is sky coloured (and night-coloured, and sunset colour, as appropriate at the time).
<shauno> so it's official.  "the light at the end of the tunnel" is a bug.
<ali1234> yea
<ali1234> i have rooms that big
<directhex> i built a map that big in half-life once :p
<shauno> never played halflife :/
<shauno> I'm fairly sporadic with games.  I'll play the same things for year on end, while the rest of the world passes me by
<shauno> about the only pattern to them so far is that shooting people in the face just ain't my thing
<shauno> (zombies, however, are perfectly acceptable.  it's not a fps thing.  just not a fan of war/reality-based shooters.  gimme quake :)
<kaushal> hi
<kaushal> Any good apps for task/event available in Ubuntu ?
<kaushal> I mean task reminder
<kaushal> checking in again for the query ?
<popey> kaushal: it was 6AM when you asked, chances are people are asleep / commuting
<kaushal> popey: apologies
<kaushal> popey: I have tasque but it doesnot have popup or reminder
<kaushal> Can you please suggest something ?
<Myrtti> evolution?
<kaushal> Myrtti: I do not use Evolution
<kaushal> I mean any desktop apps
<kaushal> anyways fine
<MichealH`> Hmm... When I switched servers I didnt come here xP
<AlanJenkins> morning all
<AlanBell> morning
<AlanJenkins> morning AlanBell hows things mate?
<AlanJenkins> morning TheOpenSourcerer
<TheOpenSourcerer> is it?
<diplo> Morning
<DJones> Happy Friday, almost the start of the weekend
<MooDoo> well done AlanBell
<MartijnVdS> \o
<screen-x> morning :)
<DJones> Heya screen-x
<screen-x> morning DJones :)
<screen-x> I'm feeling quite alert this morning, had 10 hours sleep! much better than the 4 I had yesterday.
<screen-x> Also no phone interview to stress about today :)
<DJones> That will certainly reduce the stress levels
<TheOpenSourcerer> gah - screen-x I had about 2 hrs - have been awake feeling bloated and uncomfortable since about 02:30am... :-(
<screen-x> TheOpenSourcerer: :(
<daubers> Evening
<daubers> Also, who released dutchie from the grammar prison?
<danfish> wotcha all
<daubers> o/
<danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: it's a big day tomorrow - you can't afford to have Delhi Belly today!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Better to get it out of the way today danfish
 * TheOpenSourcerer is spinning up 4 new VMs for a customer (unfortunately they use CPanel & CentOS) but the host is Ubuntu :-)
<dwatkins> I need to reinsall a server at work with Ubuntu, as I think it
<dwatkins> will work much better than Fedora for various things including vmware.
 * danfish has caught up with FLOSS Weekly and set up a Big Blue Button VM to mess around with
<danfish> actually very painless and looks quite useful, though rather flash over dependent
<shauno> odd question, but does anyone know if I should be concerned about penecillin alergies if a parent has the same? or does it not work like that
<MartijnVdS> shauno: Ask a medical expert, like a doctor :)
<shauno> heh, yeah, I know.  but I'm at work, and I'm never quite sure where/when to trust the internet
<MartijnVdS> shauno: that's why you shouldn't ask the internet, but a doctor ;)
<shauno> as far as I can tell, most sites I'm seeing are setup to take advertising dollars from hypochondriacs.  I'm more "nosey because I've never done this before"
<danfish> shauno: no - there is no proven correlation
<shauno> sweet, cheers
<MartijnVdS> However, being alert for symptoms shouldn't matter :)
<danfish> MartijnVdS: quite right
<JamesTait> Happy Red Nose Day! *8OD
<danfish> bejesus - we've that to look forwards to 2nite :(
<screen-x> danfish: its not compulsasry, /me will be on the M4 for most of it..
<Tommeh> TheOpenSourcerer: any v6 support in cPanel yet?
<MartijnVdS> danfish: mini Dr Who episode \o/
<danfish> MartijnVdS: that's more like it :)
 * DJones would prefer it if the time comic relief was on was an extended DW episode with a mini comic relief segment in it :)
<daubers> woot, new HDD for my laptop \o/
<screen-x> morning daubers :)
<daubers> screen-x: Quite probably, though my brain still feels like it's night :)
<daubers> Also, morning :)
<DJones> daubers: Still doing the Australian support?
<daubers> DJones: No, end of a very long project. Just finishing getting the system running as the customer wants
<DJones> daubers: Shame, you could have asked for a site visit
<daubers> Discovered that my IPC stuff had issues yesterday
<daubers> DJones: Possibly doing an install in Dubai in a couple of months
<daubers> Which will mean a week out that way
<daubers> Kinda half way to Aus :)
<DJones> daubers: Thats true, when I went to oz years ago, there was a stopover in Dubai
<czajkowski> aloha
<shauno> morning
<andylockran> is something broken on the internets?
<dwatkins> yes
<andylockran> dwatkins: more speficially?
<bigcalm> Hi kids :)
<bigcalm> andylockran: it is morraly broken
<MartijnVdS> O NOES
<shauno> just hows we likes it
<dwatkins> andylockran: oh sorry, I'm sure that something is broken (my VPN connection for one thing) ;)
<MartijnVdS> too many dirty pictures/minute?
<iclebyte_work> anyone noticing problems with BT advertising a load of networks?
<daubers> !logs
<lubotu3> Official channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ . LoCo channels are now logged there too; for older LoCo channel logs, see http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/
<gil> Morning all - is anyone here using natty with the gnome 3 team ppa?
<daubers> Argh!
<daubers> I hate politics!
<screen-x> anyone know when the census deadline is?
<gil> screen-x you can do it online can't you?
<screen-x> gil: yep
<gil> I think it's ages from now
<screen-x> but if it doesn't have a deadline, it's chances of being filled are low
<gil> it's got vague legal threats attached to not filling it in, if that helps
<screen-x> a little, maybe I'll use census day (the 27th) as the deadline
<daubers> popey / Daviey / AlanBell Question: PoC or Team Leader. There's a lot of discussion on which throughout the past, which is confused by Davieys first meeting as whichever stating "<Daviey> and my first meeting as Leader / PoC", the wiki stating PoC, and popey was definatley PoC when he was in charge....?
 * daubers has just scanned a 3 years of ML posts and the irc logs from 2008/9
<AlanBell> an interesting question, just been talking to czajkowski about that
<BigRedS> screen-x: sent by 31st march IIRC
<Daviey> daubers, Wow, straight in there :)
<daubers> AlanBell: Yeah, she manages to confuse things :)
<AlanBell> I didn't realise there was that much of an important distinction
<DJones> daubers: Going back to when Daviey took over from popey, I thought it was described as POC rather than team leader
<Daviey> This is true...
<screen-x> BigRedS: thanks.
<daubers> DJones: I can't find anything written down that makes the distinction in the UK LoCo stuff
<Daviey> Back before popey, when it was Nick - it was a Lead.
<daubers> Hence digging through logs and lists
<Daviey> I don't think popey chose for it to be a PoC.
<DJones> daubers: Have you looked at this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamHowto
<daubers> DJones: Yes, but I wanted to see if we as a group had made a decision first :)
<AlanBell> I thought the terminology changed globally at some point, but it was a new name for the same thing
<Daviey> In some ways, it's a little dis-empowering - and a worthy question of being answered before the new fool takes over :).
<Mez> anyone going to http://bringonipv6.com/
<DJones> One of the differences seems to be that teams don't need a "team leader" but they do need a "point of contact"
<daubers> Urgh... confused now
<Daviey> Mez, Doesn't look that exciting, i'd be surprised if there is much meat there.
<gil> so can anyone help me locate ligtk3.0-0? I have an upgrade for gucharmap but I can't do it because it needs libgtk3.0-0 which I can't seem to find anywhere :(
<popey> 11:04:15 < Daviey> I don't think popey chose for it to be a PoC.
<popey> I didnt
<popey> the name was "changed" to PoC by people who held a meeting whilst I was on holiday
<Mez> Daviey: free food though :P
<Daviey> shortly prior to popey taking over IIRC.
<Daviey> Mez, heh
<daubers> I suppose the question here should be "Should we have a more formal leadership chain?" rather than the ad hoc people do what they want to do and we have a PoC to talk to the broader worls?
<gord> gil, what version of ubuntu are you running?
<gil> gord I am running natty with the gnome3 team ppa
<popey> In Ubuntu projects we call them team leaders
<popey> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/leadership-conduct
<Mez> Daviey: am tempted to go just to bitch @ AOL people :D
<gord> gil, then you should have libgtk3.0-0
<gil> gord I know :(
<gord> gil, update?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Iain Cuthbertson] Getting a random wp-block by regex - http://www.myrant.net/2011/03/18/getting-a-random-wp-block-by-regex/
<popey> I think PoC is a worthless moniker, a team _needs_ leadership
<Daviey> I must say, something i found quite quickly is the ability to JFDI is significantly reduced with just a PoC
<gil> gord the update fails because it can't find libgtk3.0-0 :(
<Daviey> but as i suspect popey found, when you are in the hot seat  - it's perhaps inappropriate to change that.
<gord> gil, remove the silly ppa - it may be doing stupid things
<popey> yup
<popey> it was "voted" by the "team"
<popey> (in fact it was raised by one person at the meeting with very little discussion)
<popey> that person now doesn't actually contribute to Ubuntu at all, and hasnt done for a year or more
<daubers> Right, so what we need to do is define what a Team Leader should do, if there should be a PoC or some other components to the leadership grouping and then put a proposal _everywhere_ and get a meeting together about it?
<popey> back seat drivers ftw
<gil> gord - I have libgtk-3.0 from ubuntu but the gnome 3 team ppa which is supposed to be the semi-official ubuntu build for gnome 3 doesn't recognise it.... that's the crux of my problem I think :(
<gord> gil, no such thing as semi official, ppa's can and will screw up your system
<AlanBell> personally in general terms I think *any* role is what you make of it, not what happens to be on the business card
<Daviey> I'm sorry I wasn't at the meeting last night.  FWIW, i'd fully support a proposal of it being a 'Leader' position.
<gil> gord but it's the only way I can play with gnome 3 isn't it? :(
<Daviey> AlanBell, Already have the biz cards? :)
<daubers> AlanBell: Problem is, that when you're elected into a role, people should need to know what they're electing people to do?
<gord> gil, get a virtual machine, get a gnome 3 live cd, play with it in that?
<AlanBell> that is a reasonable point
<Daviey> daubers, 'election' you say.... not seeing many candidates.
<daubers> Daviey: Well... yes... but tha may have been predicated by the role being watered down
<gil> gord that's one solution, but didn't I hear that natty won't really have a proper gnome 3 build anyhow?
<AlanBell> I don't think a lack of a fierce election battle is neccessarily a problem
<Daviey> daubers, either way,  I would like to get things moving.
 * screen-x proposes daubers stands so that AlanBell can be voted in legitimately
<bigcalm> Humm, fancy a cream egg now
<gord> gil, depends what you mean by gnome3. if you mean the applications and libraries and such then we have all that. if you mean shell, then no thats not in natty
<gil> gord yeah sorry, I meant the shell stuff, not just the underlying libraries
<popey> Daviey: you want to get rid of AlanBell already :D
<Daviey> popey, yeah - his face doesn't fit.
<Daviey> =)
<daubers> I would actually suggest the additional creation of a Team Lead role, alongside the PoC role
<daubers> Since the PoC role seems to be more adminy in nature
<daubers> the Team Lead should be the person going to conferences and what not and pushing the team to do things, where as the PoC should be a role to ensure that notices and what not get distributed to the group
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/MeetingNotes/20070916Meeting
<daubers> It also allows us a catchall should one of them disappear off the face of the earth
<Daviey> daubers, i'd meh at that TBH.
<gord> a point of contact should be an email address
<daubers> Daviey: I dunno... I know some people who make fantastic administrators, but are rubbish leaders, and people who are the opposite. Know very few people in between
<daubers> or who can do both well
<daubers> Daviey: the other thing is, some people may want to get involved who would shy away from the limelight, this would give them a chance to do something without that issue :)
<daubers> Reading that meeting through... it's not very clear what was decided
<Daviey> gord, there is already a contact email address...
<Daviey> :)
<Daviey> contact@ubuntu-uk.org :)
<AlanBell> so where does that go?
<popey> wherever you want it to :)
<Daviey> AlanBell, currently to me, but eager to change it
<Daviey> But TBH, i don't think it's exactly used - due to poor doc
<AlanBell> feel free to point it at alanbell@ubuntu.com
<Daviey> I normally get direct contact via my normal address
<Daviey> AlanBell, on it
<AlanBell> OK, so I think the title should remain as Point of Contact
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<brobostigon> congrats AlanBell :)
<AlanBell> and that role would include passing on details from the loco council, ordering CDs and additionally providing such leadership as is appropriate in a non-exclusive way
<daubers> AlanBell: and remain leaderless? (that sounds sracastic, but it's not, it's a question :) )
<Daviey> AlanBell, ygm
<AlanBell> so I have, thanks Daviey
<daubers> AlanBell: In that case, can we document the expected process to get things done? If we are to remain a collective type of leadership, we may end up on the defining quorum thing again
<Daviey> FWIW, i would prefer a leader position over a PoC... but i won't mention it again.
<daubers> Daviey: I think I concur, largley because we have no defined membership, so getting backing on decisions is difficult otherwise
<AlanBell> leader is fine too, I don't mind
<screen-x> "take me to your PoC" doesn't quite have the same ring to it.
<AlanBell> "take me to your Lizard" works well
<Daviey> "take me to my daddy" also works.
<daubers> The question is, how does the decision process work in each situation?
 * Daviey adds daddy@ubuntu-uk.org -> alanbell
 * popey adds mummy@ubuntu-uk.org -> daviey
<Daviey> Ooo misses.
<MartijnVdS> Are you my mummy?
<brobostigon> lol
<daubers> le sigh
 * bigcalm wibbles
<screen-x> daubers: appologies for derailing your sensible leadership process discussion :/
 * daubers jots down some notes
<popey> FRIDAY!
<popey> etc
<screen-x> and almost lunchtime at that
 * mungojerry is mildly cheesed off :(
<screen-x> sup mungojerry?
<bigcalm> TTFCIF \o/
<mungojerry> builders are sawing paving stones outside my window for the last 5 days..rather hard to concentrate on anything
<mungojerry> loud music doesn't even drown it out
<bigcalm> mungojerry: you need some decent cans
<screen-x> closed cans
<mungojerry> i need a holiday
<daubers> Right, comments on this please http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/WhatTypeOfLeadership
<daubers> comments/additions/edits/so on
<screen-x> daubers: Idon't really have a comment, but would vote for combined, maybe a poll of some sort is needed?
<daubers> screen-x: We should first decide if we need to do this, then it should go out to be discussed, then polled, then implimented
<daubers> This is why I hate politics
<daubers> (if you miss any of those steps, someone _will_ whinge and call the process into question :( )
<mungojerry> wasn't there a meeting yesterday?
<BigRedS> "Requires 2 people when we struggled for more than one nominee this year" is a bit of a weird 'con' without knowing why we struggled to get more than one
<BigRedS> If the problem was that nobody wanted the workload, that's a pro for splitting it up, for example
<daubers> mungojerry: Yup, I was actioned (apparently) to document the election process, but someone asked if we have a Team Leader or a PoC, which is an.... interesting point
<brobostigon> BigRedS: or simply not having certain capabilites,
<daubers> so before the process can be defined we really should define the positions
<AlanBell> the positions are defined
<AlanBell> we just need to decide which position(s) we are going to have
<daubers> AlanBell: Yes, thats what I meant :)
<BigRedS> brobostigon: yeah, or that. But if the problem is apathy, then splitting the position will obviously not help
<seeker> Popey for president \o/
<popey> hahah
<popey> retro
<brobostigon> BigRedS: very true, yes.
 * seeker goes back to lurking
<BigRedS> Are there any hoops I should be jumping through to get natty/unity working properly on virtualbox?
<BigRedS> It looks like broken gtk currently
<AlanBell> use virtualbox 4
<AlanBell> install the guest additions
<BigRedS> Ah, I've done the second but not the first
<BigRedS> :(
<BigRedS> this one's called "Oracle virtualbox"
<directhex> moo
 * directhex officially moos @ everyone
<bigcalm> That time of day eh?
 * BigRedS has never had an official moo before
<bigcalm> What on earth shall I have for lunch?
<daubers> Whens the next meeting?
<directhex> bigcalm, fish!
<MartijnVdS> Cow.
<bigcalm> directhex: 'n chips?
<directhex> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPNGaBdHAak
<bigcalm> directhex: what happened to all of the fish? Somebody ate it
<bigcalm> DJJ is a acting god!
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: processed how?
<bigcalm> s/a/an
<daubers> Right, here is my plan for approval. If I send a mail to the list describing this issue with the etherpad for editing, and propose that it be discussed/finalised at the next meeting (on what we want from that list) and then we can go from there?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: randomly
<bigcalm> Puppies!
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: you're going to eat puppies?
 * bigcalm pushes himself down the stairs
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: Chinese or Korean? :)
<BigRedS> daubers: sounds good. It strikes me that what's needed most is for someone to just decide how it's going to happen.
<BigRedS> that might as well be you :)
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: more tender than old dogs
<daubers> BigRedS: And this is why we need a Leader!
<BigRedS> daubers: yep!
<daubers> (on a side note so no-one gets any ideas, I never intend to stand in a leadership capacity as I'm a rubbish leader)
<MartijnVdS> daubers: Rubbish needs leaders too!
<seeker> daubers: That never stopped Popey! :P
<daubers> seeker: ooooh... harsh
<seeker> popey knows I'm joking :P
<MartijnVdS> seeker: I wouldn't be so sure.. :)
<seeker> Well he hasn't kicked me yet
<DJones> seeker: He's become more subtle than  that, he'll just move everybody else into a new channel :)
<mungojerry> seeker maybe he's sending his mum over irl
<AlanBell> daubers: make it so
<BigRedS> Hm. I will never get used to this no-root-password-by-default thing, apparently
<mungojerry> BigRedS: yeah i change that soon after install
<daubers> Hmmm... issue....
<daubers> new HDD is too fat to fit in my laptop
<mungojerry> woops
<screen-x> daubers: :(
 * daubers for sees the purchase of a USB caddy...
<daubers> Anyone got any recommendations for a USB caddy that will take 2.5" 1TB drive?
<MartijnVdS> daubers: sata?
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Yup
<MartijnVdS> daubers: http://www.amazon.co.uk/IOMAX-SATA-Adapter-Power-Drive/dp/B001A5SK56/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1300452614&sr=8-1 ?
<MartijnVdS> or more like http://www.amazon.co.uk/IOMAX-External-Enclosure-Laptop-Powered/dp/B001EEQQ8Q/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1300452614&sr=8-2  ?
<daubers> MartijnVdS: More like the second but with 1TB support
<screen-x> daubers: are there names for the different heights?
<daubers> screen-x: Don't think so...
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: heights are in millimeters :)
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: I was curious as I thought that the form factor is well defined
<screen-x> so to have a disk that doesn't fit is a bit odd.
<MartijnVdS> only height isn't well-defined
<daubers> it's a 12.5mm high drive
<shauno> 12.5 don't fit in mine :/
 * screen-x defines NQSFF
<MartijnVdS> daubers: http://www.storagedepot.co.uk/Hard-Drive-Cases/sc884/p912.aspx
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Yeah, probably end up with an Icy Box, quite nice enclosures
<mungojerry> well, there's nothing i'd be remotely interesting in buying from amazon's android app store http://www.androidnews.de/amazon-appstore-apps-prices-leak
 * brobostigon has found a honeycomb build on xda for g1. amazing.
<brobostigon> i am feeling adventurous, lets try it.
<mungojerry> brobostigon: what do you have on it right now?
<brobostigon> mungojerry: 2.2.1
<gord> i don't really understand the logic behind amazons app store on android, i mean on ios it would make sense because their app store is more restrictive, but this is just gonna be a carbon copy with price differences that are never gonna matter
<mungojerry> gord: yep, the only reason would be to make it more accessible to some people who can't use the google store to buy stuff right now
<screen-x> will amazon have the same powers of remote removal/installation?
<mungojerry> or they see a whole lot of devices out there and want slice of pie by undercutting by 20p for a while
<mungojerry> i buy mp3's from amazon (via banshee :P ) , and they have become my first port of call for music purchases now
<mungojerry> i've never paid for an app, maybe they hope for convenience, people like me might use their store to buy
<screen-x> Now that my iphone 3g is no longer receiving updates, its jailbreak time :)
<mungojerry> screen-x: why not?
<screen-x> mungojerry: precisely :)
<mungojerry> is it possible to get the updates on there somehow?
<screen-x> I am particularly interested in tethering options
 * daubers waits for debian to install on his laptop
<mungojerry> screen-x: what tethering does apple allow OOTB?
<screen-x> mungojerry: usb, but disabled by carrier
 * mungojerry is experiencing some RHEL6/SL6 kickstart install issues :(
<mungojerry> screen-x: wow, that sucks
<brobostigon> mungojerry: fail, such a gui doesnt reallywork, on said small screen.
<mungojerry> brobostigon: boo
<screen-x> mungojerry: I think there maybe a BT option as well, can't remember.
 * brobostigon  tries gingerbread again.
<screen-x> brobostigon: you got honeycomb installed and tested in that time?
 * mungojerry is waiting for the next release: haribo
<brobostigon> screen-x: yes.
<screen-x> mungojerry: ice cream?
<brobostigon> screen-x: i couldnt see a thing, everything was too small.
<screen-x> brobostigon: good effort
<brobostigon> screen-x: i would have needed a magnifying glass.
<mungojerry> screen-x: i'm hoping they will call the next one after that haribo after the world's best sweets
<popey> mungojerry: its up to the carrier
<popey> i have all tethering enabled
<popey> usb, bluetooth and wifi
<mungojerry> i don't use tethering much but it's invaluable on holiday
<mungojerry> (in the UK)
 * screen-x wonders hopes there is a wifi tethering option with jailbreak
 * daubers waits for his partitions to resize
 * dutchie gets out of bed
<mungojerry> daubers: debian testing?
<brobostigon> sid?
<mungojerry> fedora 15: Ethernet NICs embedded on the motherboard will be named em[1234] rather than ethX. PCI add-in card NICs will be named pci<slot>p<port>_<vf>.
<mungojerry> except for VMs. ..sounds like going back to the Solaris days.. fe0 , ge0, hme0 ewww
<popey> expect lots of things to break :)
<mungojerry> popey: isn't that fedora's slogan?
<popey> heh
<daubers> mungojerry: no, stable :)
<daubers> (debian version that is)
<mungojerry> daubers: gnome 2.32?
<daubers> mungojerry: No idea, ask me once it's installed :p
<mungojerry> should be done by now :P
<daubers> mungojerry: It's resizing quite an old partition, which takes time
<mungojerry> ah
<mungojerry> i didn't realise what a difference it makes going from a 5400rpm laptop disk to a 7200rpm one
<mungojerry> much more IOPS
<screen-x> talking of NIC names, it would be really useful, if ethtool or something like it could make one an interfaces LEDs flash, so you can work out which is which.
<screen-x> heh ethtool does it already.. should have read the man page.
<mungojerry> screen-x: like ethtool -p ?
<mungojerry> i also find audible ping useful when moving machines while they are switched on
 * mungojerry actually has a server room that doesn't have noisy raid alarms constantly beeping
<brobostigon> gingerbread seems to be working,
<mungojerry> om nom nom
<brobostigon> :)
<directhex> i'm so looking forward to a new phone
<popey> new palm pre?
<directhex> mungojerry, if you want iops, you don't use spinning discs of rust
<directhex> popey, that's the current plan
<screen-x> directhex: pre3?
<directhex> indeed
<directhex> or i could get that 3d android phone, to view my 3d photos on :p
<screen-x> directhex: do you have a 3d monitor/tv?
<directhex> screen-x, yes
<screen-x> work well with the 3d camera?
<directhex> no idea, don't have a mini-hdmi cable yet :p
<screen-x> how are 3d photos stored?
<directhex> .mpo files, which are basically .jpg files with two image sections defined. most apps will open them & ignore the second image
<directhex> e.g. regular command-line exif tools work
<screen-x> interesting
<brobostigon> in gingerbread will i be needing setcpu?
<daubers> \o/ for experimental installs
<daubers> I have 1xnatty partition and 1xdebian partition installed on a btrfs FS :)
<bigcalm> Is there a wordpress function to get a page_name (slug) from a given ID number?
<bigcalm> (shot in the dark question)
<popey> http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/18/flash-10-2-hits-android-today-adobe-hopes-for-viewable-720p-pla/
<screen-x> bigcalm: I'm guessing mysql_query is the wrong answer..
<cocoa117> my ubuntu 10.10 Gnome keep think pdf,rar,deb files is text/plain type, anyway to solve this?
<cocoa117> this happened after i installed php5-cli and phoronix-test-suite
<bigcalm> screen-x: one would hope so
<bigcalm> screen-x: I'll write my own function if need be, just wanted to make sure I'm not reinventing the wheel
<screen-x> bigcalm: no idea
<bigcalm> :)
<gord> cocoa117, right click -> properties -> open with - select what you want it to open with there
<screen-x> bigcalm: get_page returns more than you need,but does include title
<cocoa117> gord, i did, then the Document viewer for PDF file showed "unable to open document, file type text/plain is not supported"
<cocoa117> gord, it was fine before I installed php5-cli
<gord> cocoa117, eh then i'm not sure sorry
<bigcalm> screen-x: yes, that's the function I'm using now
<bigcalm> $sectionPage = get_page(83);
<bigcalm>  return $sectionPage->post_name;
<kubik32> d
<screen-x> b
<kubik32> hi
<screen-x> hi kubik32
<bigcalm> And there you go
<screen-x> haha
 * daubers orders 1 of http://www.amazon.co.uk/IB-250StU3-B-Aluminium-Case-inch-Interface/dp/B0030CK2YE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1300453897&sr=1-1-catcorr
 * DJones wonders if "hi" in polish means something other than hello that may have scared kubik32 out of the channel
<screen-x> DJones: he/she said it first
<screen-x> I personally think it was the character symetry that scared him.
<screen-x>  /her
<DJones> Heh
<mungojerry> most IRC rooms aren't very active..maybe it was the first time he/she had seen a response with 60 minutes that scared them off
<daubers> (
<screen-x> )
 * screen-x likes this game
<bigcalm> {
<BigRedS> Hah. I've spent days in a typo of the channel I was aiming at before noticing the traffic was a *tad* lower than usual...
<daubers> }
<screen-x> bigcalm: consider yourself bracketed
<shauno> I've done that a few times, but been in the right channel on the wrong network
<screen-x> tab fail
 * bigcalm considers it
<shauno> eventually start to babble (it's what I do) and notice I'm opped.  oops.
<bigcalm> Oh for flip :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Phil Bull] User Help hackfest - http://philbull.livejournal.com/58631.html
<bigcalm> BigRedS: I don't think people in here can cope when we are both active!
<screen-x> three characters should uniquely identify any nic
 * bigcalm o O ( likes this )
<mungojerry> screen-x: +1
<daubers> screen-x: Nonesense, most of the time they start with eth :)
<BigRedS> haha!
<mungojerry> this room still has around 80% lurkageunless they all get busy at 11pm
<shauno> the day-time people are boring :(
<screen-x> mungojerry: I was here at 2am the other day, at there was quite a lot of overlap with day people.
<mungojerry> lol
<screen-x> it seems sleep is not a universal requirement
<shauno> I think it's a requirement, I just find 'daily' to be pushing it a bit too far
<mungojerry> i remember at uni , we didn't have such things as laptops, or even desktops in those days, so the geeks would just hang out in the lab virtual chatting and MUGing late into the night
<mungojerry> i don't think any coding or work got done
<mungojerry> compsci students are actually quite social amongst their own kind
<bigcalm> I don't really enjoy talking shop that much in outside of work
<mungojerry> i would but none of my irl friends are geeky enough
<mungojerry> especially the ones who consider themselves geeks
<BigRedS> I just get into arguments with my geeky friends
<BigRedS> they're either flash devs or windows admins :(
<mungojerry> me too, usually involving apple or freedom :P
<BigRedS> I tend to berate them for breaking the internet
<mungojerry> same as my banter with popey and shauno really :P
<BigRedS> haha, I did enjoy the macbook comment someone tweeted at fosdem
<screen-x> mungojerry: I used to annoy people in the CS labs for being too social/nosey I always wanted to know what other people were up to
<mungojerry> screen-x: become an admin :P
<screen-x> mungojerry: tick
<screen-x> I dont care what my users are up to (within policy..) much less interesting than CS students :(
<mungojerry> uni doesn't teach you enough about admin rights..i knew how to program etc but only really knew cd/ls/pwd/gcc/mailtool/rlogin/xlock
<mungojerry> but got a job as sysadmin..had to learn quickly
<screen-x> mungojerry: yep, same
<mungojerry> fortunately my boss taught me well
<mungojerry> i have repayed the favour by teaching many others
<Azelphur> sigh, lodgers laptop has smitfraud on it
<mungojerry> don't keep knowledge to yourself
<Azelphur> I usually don't do windows support, but baring in mind my parents are so horrible to him lol
<mungojerry> Azelphur: hmm..source of your bandwidth issues?
<Azelphur> mungojerry: nope, did per user and everyone was even
<mungojerry> even your dad?
<Azelphur> yup
<Azelphur> there was like 1GB between the highest and lowest user
<screen-x> Azelphur: sounds like you need a transparent proxy
<shauno> that's fairly atypical .. must be a pretty odd house
<Azelphur> screen-x: why? :p
<screen-x> How do your parents use 20gb/month? iplayer?
<Azelphur> yep
<Azelphur> and hour long youtube lectures
 * mungojerry checks his usage
<Azelphur> and my dad does lots of VNC
<mungojerry> geek dad lol
<screen-x> how does your router differntiate users?
<screen-x> static IP?
<Azelphur> screen-x: mac address
<screen-x> ahh
<screen-x> all routers should do that
<Azelphur> they should
<screen-x> I know you said the other day, but which one is it again?
<Azelphur> I use a linksys WRT610N with DD-WRT
<Azelphur> but DD-WRT isn't exactly great, and getting bandwith monitoring going isn't easy unless you want to pay them bucketloads of money
<screen-x> pay for dd-wrt?
<Azelphur> yea they have a pay version with extra features :/
<screen-x> opencore :(
<Azelphur> I'm not too sure on how that works baring in mind it's GPL
<Azelphur> screen-x: the web panel is encrypted too so you can't add your own pages -.-
<Azelphur> openwrt is probably better but it isn't compatible with my router
<Daviey> BigRedS, Were you at FOSDEM this year?
<mungojerry> Azelphur: usage for last 3 months for me + wifey: http://i.imgur.com/MNwUb.png
<Azelphur> :p
<BigRedS> Daviey: yeah
<mungojerry> do all my ISO downloads and iplayer downloads at work
<Azelphur> yea, if you had to do that at home your bandwith usage would go way up :)
<BigRedS> I meant to seek out some of you people, but, er, didn't
<Azelphur> mungojerry: then we've got weird stuff like the lodger isn't allowed to watch TV (See: my parents arn't nice to him) so he has to use iPlayer or similar to watch anything
<Daviey> BigRedS, If i knew that, i might have let you buy me a drink.
<mungojerry> lol is your dad alan sugar?
<BigRedS> Daviey: Aha! I knew I should have announced more
<BigRedS> wait... :)
<Azelphur> o.O
<shauno> I think at some point you just gotta admit that most residential connections aren't sized for 4+ over-average users
<Daviey> BigRedS, Mind you, i'm not sure i could have handled more.
<BigRedS> Daviey: Ah, so you had the right sort of amount?
<shauno> they sell it around email/myface/youtube, where you'd be an anomaly, and 4 anomalies under one roof is heavy
<mungojerry> about 10 years ago an work colleague mounted a roof aerial to run a wifi connection between his mums house and his own, to perform offsite backups
<Daviey> BigRedS, Hmm.. possibly excess...
<mungojerry> i have a massive microwave/laser aerial about 5 yds from my head on the top floor on the office :S
<mungojerry> pointing at halls of residence about half a mile away
<shauno> we used to have something like that linking 2 college campuses.  it'd go wrong in very bad weather
<mungojerry> i'd like to know if there are any health risks in working next to it
<screen-x> mungojerry: that sort of thing is usually pretty directional
<mungojerry> tbh the asbestos is probably a higher risk
<BigRedS> What's the name for a person being sponsored. It's not 'sponsoree' but might be in some sort of a horrible nightmare
<BigRedS> s/\./?/
<BigRedS> I suppose it could be 'the sponsored'...
<screen-x> http://www.sponsoree.com/en/faqs
<screen-x> others have suggested sponsee, but I don't like that either
<bigcalm> Anybody here have a faveorite form plugin for WordPress?
<DJones> BigRedS: If the person being sponsored is running a marathon, then I'd call them insane :)
<shauno> my dict just goes with sponsored :/
<BigRedS> DJones: haha, part of the point of sponsorship is that you're doing somethign a bit insane, surely?
<mungojerry> does anyone in here know about combi boilers?
<directhex> i know they boil things!
<DJones> mungojerry: About the bare minimum, turn tap on boiler switches on to heat water, time clock comes on central heating comes on
<mungojerry> the water pressure in my boiler has been increasing rather high, although i haven't introduced any new water to the system..rather weird
<directhex> mungojerry, *increasing*? how random
<mungojerry> i bled the radiator to let out air and 2 pints of water from the system
<mungojerry> rather concerning
<screen-x> mungojerry: retract the control rods a few cm
<mungojerry> screen-x: i'm a noob
<mungojerry> what's a control rod
<shauno> heh
<screen-x> mungojerry: nuclear fuel
<dutchie> well, anti-fuel
<screen-x> dutchie: ah yes, wrong way round
<mungojerry> ah
<dutchie> screen-x: the fuel rods are called, imaginatively, "fuel rods" :)
<DJones> Isn't the pressure supposed to rise a bit when it heats up because the hot water expands
<mungojerry> DJones: yes
<shauno> aye.  inserting the control rods a bit more (more mediators) should lower pressure.  he got it all about face, but it was funny
<mungojerry> but recently (last week or so), it hasn't been resetting to the previous pressure
<mungojerry> after cooling
<screen-x> mungojerry: does the manual give safe ranges?
<mungojerry> the central heating system can withstand pressure up to 3 bar
<mungojerry> mine was around 0.5-1 bar for a long time
<mungojerry> then zoomed
<mungojerry> up to 3 bar
<mungojerry> (with heating on). so i bled a bit from radiator to release pressure
<DJones> mungojerry: http://www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9358
<DJones> Do those symptoms sound similar
<mungojerry> hmm..probably this is more similar http://boards.fool.co.uk/boiler-pressure-increasing-11233573.aspx?sort=whole
<jgjones_> I'm just looking forward to summer - central heating goes off completely.
<mungojerry> i don't actually know what the expansion vessel is
<mungojerry> i've had my heating on constantly for ages, since we have a little babby
<DJones> That seems to be talking about the same problem (2nd part of the answer anyway) a loss of pressure in the expansion vessel
<mungojerry> i have a digital pressure reader , so it seems i need to stick it in the expansion vessel valve, wherever that is
 * mungojerry hates house things going wrong
<jgjones_> I liked Outcasts on BBC and am disappointed to hear that apparently it've been cancelled now....does that mean I'm just plain weird for liking Outcasts since it seems that those naff "TV critics" from papers think it's crap?
<DJones> jgjones_: I couldn't get interested in Outcast, it looked good from teh adverts but once it started, it didn't hold my attention
<Cepheus> I watched the first episode, it was okay but nothing spectacular
<jgjones_> It seemed to get a lot better toward the end.
<DJones> This looks interesting if it ever makes it this side of teh Atlantic http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/18/breaking_in_pen_testing_sitcom/
<DJones> http://www.fox.com/breakingin/
<jgjones_> Frankly, if they're cancelling it, fine...but they'll better not replace it with yet another bloody "reality" show
<DJones> Maybe they're going to do a reality show based in a circus, every week they "stars" have to perform as a different circus act, with the 1/4 final as tightrope artiste, semi final trapeeze artiste and final as a lion tamer :)
<jgjones_> a better reality show would be to have bankers learning that they're not getting any bonuses and instead it goes on paying off UK debt. Imagine the horrors on their face and them screaming that it's unfair.
<mungojerry> i must say that possibly the most useful application i use is tomboy..write a note, hit sync and my android app loads it up
<screen-x> mungojerry: shame you can't edit on phone..
<mungojerry> screen-x: yeah
<mungojerry> but i generally use touchscreen devices as consumption devices
<mungojerry> which is why the world won't be switching to tablets as their only computing device just yet
<mungojerry> tablets seem to make regular computing harder
<shauno> man computers are stupid sometimes :(
<shauno> expired my password half way thru a shift, then kicked me off the network because it wasn't valid anymore.  so I had to go find a spare ethernet cord to change my password.
<shauno> I didn't want to change it 2 hour before I go on holiday, because I'll never remember the new one now.  blah.
<screen-x> shauno: grr
<mungojerry> shauno: do what everyone else does and write it on a postit note stuck to your monitor
<shauno> I can't :/  that makes me feel like an idiot
<mungojerry> :P
<mungojerry> Write "WIondows 7 activation key"
<shauno> (also we have a 'product manager' that likes changing people's passwords, then watching them squirm)
<mungojerry> set password as eirow-werwe-we3543-s343d-34ded
<moreati> mungojerry: write it on a post it and take it home.
<mungojerry> use the serial number of the telephone on your desk
<mungojerry> :P
<Cepheus> burn it into your retinas with a servo and a 1W laser =p
<X3N> can someone sanity check this.. $cats = 'bob'; if ($cats != 'felix' || $cats != 'fifi') { echo 'bob'; }
<X3N> why would bob run if $cats = felix;
<mungojerry> which launguage
<X3N> php
<shauno> || is 'or', right ?
<Cepheus> yeah
<screen-x> X3N:  because of or
<screen-x> the fist test fails, but the second succeeds
<shauno> as bob, you have TRUE or TRUE, whic eval's true
<shauno> as felix, you have FALSE or ... yeah what he said.  I'm slow and verbose
<Cepheus> It will always echo bob because always at least one of those is true
<X3N> ah yes, thanks
<Cepheus> replace || with &&
<moreati> would be clearer as $cats not in ['felix', 'fifi']
<moreati> assuming php has a 'not in' operator
<dwatkins> I thought || was meant for commands, not within if statements
<bigcalm> You could replace it with if (!in_array($cats, array('felix', 'fifi'))) { ...
<dwatkins> if ( true | false ) { echo either; }
<dwatkins> as oposed to /bin/true || /bin/false
<shauno> I don't think php has a straght |
<bigcalm> Not as an or, no
<shauno> *straight
<dwatkins> oh right, thought it was bash
<Cepheus> | is bitwise or in PHP
<Cepheus> I think
<shauno> so it is
<X3N> brain failing to do logic this evening, kind of bad
<shauno> just don't do double-negatives.  if they don't make sense in english, they're not going to look any prettier in code :)
<bigcalm> :D
<bigcalm> if (!false) { die(':('); }
<dwatkins> noooooooooooooooooo!
<dwatkins> that smells like a nasty forkbomb, bigcalm
<screen-x> nah, just certain death
<bigcalm> Not in the slightist
<dwatkins> | cake
<Cepheus> death is not the end =p
<bigcalm> while (true) { fork; }
<dwatkins> while ( cake | death ) ; do eat ; endwhile
 * screen-x gives Cepheus a philosophy point
<screen-x> dwatkins: ||
<screen-x> unless you are planning to pipe cake into death
<moreati> die(':(') anyone else see a duck blowing a rasberry?
<shauno> I did that with a chunk of perl earlier.  looked at it.  and again.  decided I saw 7 smileys, and nothing else. and closed it again.
<popey> I am looking forward to drinking beer tomorrow afternoon.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh popey
<TheOpenSourcerer> What time you planning on getting up there?
<BrianM_> ?
<BrianM_> help
<BrianM_> list
<moreati> BrianM_: I am the helpbot. What s the nature of your enquiry?
<BrianM_> how do i list channels
<moreati> BrianM_: To list channels type /list for further help type /help list
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: dunno really, you?
<TheOpenSourcerer> probably mid afternoon I guess (2~3pm)
<popey> yeah, same here
<popey> Sam has a party till 1:30
<popey> I need to get back and then get to the station
<bigcalm> My car is 4 years old and has a service interval of 20,000 miles. Would you still take it in every year for a service or wait for the 20k to pass?
<popey> yes
 * bigcalm wallops popey
<popey> :)
<bigcalm> :P
<bigcalm> I'm wise to your tricks, mr popey
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: I'd go every year
<MartijnVdS> just to make sure nothing is wrong (yet :)
<MartijnVdS> and assuming it doesn't cost hundreds of Â£Â£
<bigcalm> 6.4K left on the clock until the next service
<bigcalm> Though I doubt I'll do that in the next 2 weeks
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: No business will turn away a customer.. will they? :)
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: of course not. But I'm wondering if it's over kill for my wallet or not on a 'new' car
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: You could always ask them if they think it's necessary..?
<MartijnVdS> or learn how to service your car yourself... life skills++
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: what place would then say 'na, don't bother'
<bigcalm> I can service it myself :)
<bigcalm> Dad brought me up well
<gord> if you install wine, "open with notepad" gets added to your right click menu for text files....
<gord> how is that a good idea ever?
<bigcalm> But I'm happy to pay somebody else to do it for me and get a stamp in the service history book
<MartijnVdS> gord: If you want to try out the newest Notepad 0days
<bigcalm> o.O
<MartijnVdS> http://twitter.com/#!/Queen_UK/status/48790292555497472
<MartijnVdS> ^^ take note :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: There is a 14:12 from Woking that gets into Clapham at 14:31 - That's probably the one I'm aiming for.
<popey> might be rtough for me to make that
<popey> *tough
<popey> will let you know, and will have location tweets and latitude on
<brobostigon> has anyone here tried k9 on gingerbread, it seems to not be able to pickup email push or polling,
<brobostigon> unless i specificlly open k9, and tell it to update manually.
<jgjones_> brobostigon, I'm using Cyanogen 7 RC1 - it's based on Gingerbread....would that work for trying out K9 or are you using vanilla Gingerbread?
<brobostigon> jgjones_: i am also using a version of cm7, but its not made by cm.
<brobostigon> jgjones_: but they should be closeenough to eacother.
<Cepheus> froyo is the most popular version of android. and there are more people using 1.6 than gingerbread by almost seven times
<brobostigon> jgjones_: thank you for your help.
<jgjones_> brobostigon, will get K9 on phone and try it.
<brobostigon> jgjones_: thank you, ihave it set to pickup from gmail. and the "checking email" icon always stays in the notification, and doesnt do anything,
<brobostigon> jgjones_: and could you check to see if k9 lets android sleep or not.please.
<jgjones_> brobostigon, for background sync, what do you set it to?
<brobostigon> jgjones_: the time?
<jgjones_> brobostigon, in settings, Network > background sync
<brobostigon> jgjones_: always,
<jgjones_> notification's working
<jgjones_> brobostigon,  notification's working
<brobostigon> jgjones_: ok, that is ok here aswell.
<jgjones_> I sent an email to myself (google apps email to gmail account) and within seconds of sending, I got a notification.
<brobostigon> jgjones_: push seems to be woking fine for you then, something is broke here then.
<jgjones_> brobostigon, I'm doing it again, but this time, my phone screen is off (locked) and sending from laptop
<jgjones_> So far nothing.
<brobostigon> jgjones_: that sounds like what is happening here.
<jgjones_> brobostigon, yup...seems notification works while I'm using phone, but not if it's not in use
<brobostigon> jgjones_: so it seems, it isnt letting it doanything, while android is asleep.
<jgjones_> brobostigon, and locking phone excessively cos I just love that "power down" animation :D
<brobostigon> jgjones_: :)
<jgjones_> brobostigon, hmm...my phone lit up as I got an text. So I switched it on, and I could see the notification for K9 in the notification bar already there - it might have appeared as soon as my phone lit up for a text but it's not doing it while sleeping
<brobostigon> jgjones_: thats the impression i got here, aswell.
<MartijnVdS> <3 Dr Who mini-special :)
<brobostigon> yes, :)
<shauno> wutwut? whar/when?
<MartijnVdS> shauno: just then, on BBC One (Red nose day)
<shauno> ow
<shauno> oh well.  keep yer dr who.  I have baileys.
<phonex01> guys need help about aircrack
<HazRPG> aloha!
<phonex01> i put my mon0 device to work on channel 1 and it is turned to channel -1 ?
<AlanBell> !aircrack
<AlanBell> !info aircrack
<lubotu3> Package aircrack does not exist in maverick
<AlanBell> nope, not in the repos
<DJones> !info aircrack-ng
<lubotu3> aircrack-ng (source: aircrack-ng): wireless WEP/WPA cracking utilities. In component universe, is optional. Version 1:1.1-1 (maverick), package size 1541 kB, installed size 2776 kB
<DJones> Not something I've ever installed though
<AlanBell> hmm, interesting
<AlanBell> we tend not to support cracking stuff, but that is in the repos!
<HazRPG> AlanBell: its not really intended for cracking, its mainly for sys-admins to secure their networks...
<HazRPG> besides, doesn't shock me its in the repo... because backtrack 4 used ubuntu as its base at one point...
<dutchie> and also it has just come straight from debian
<HazRPG> plus I had it installed once on my laptop going round securing my friends wifi's with it
<HazRPG> I used it as proof how properly unsecured wifi was bad
<AlanBell> yeah, there are other tools in the repos, wireshark and nmap for example which are generally handy things for diagnosing network issues
<AlanBell> they don't really call themselves "cracking utilities" though
<shauno> backtrack terrifies me
<Azelphur> why?
<shauno> it seems to have an odd talent for drawing the wrong audience
<Azelphur> that's why it's good, it's like facebook
<Azelphur> it magnets 99.9% of irritating people away from the good stuff
<DJones> AlanBell: Its not the package thats a problem, its what the user uses it for, if they use it as a sys admin tool its no problem, if they do something dodgy with it....
<AlanBell> of course, any tool is just a tool
<HazRPG> can brasero write to disc from .cdi images?
<DJones> Must admit, I think its description could be better stated
<brobostigon> what is the proper wayto pipe terminal output into a text file?
<shauno> >
<brobostigon> thank you shauno
<shauno> not sure if I'm missing a detail there, but >filename isn't a hack, it's how it's meant to go :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: \o :)
<HazRPG> no one know if .cdi can be burnt to disc?
<HazRPG> using brasero
<shauno> not entirely sure what a .cdi is; what does 'file filename' say it is?
<brobostigon> shauno: it worked, :)
<DJones> HazRPG: http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1288517.html
<DJones> Maybe that will help
<ali1234> !info cdi2iso
<lubotu3> cdi2iso (source: cdi2iso): DiscJuggler image to ISO image file converter. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.1-0ubuntu1 (maverick), package size 4 kB, installed size 60 kB
<shauno> the forum post asks you to grab a package of geocities .. I thought they finally sank that :(
<HazRPG> DJones, ali1234: Thanks guys :)
<HazRPG> also, anyone know why brasero doesn't seem to be able to eject my disc drive?
<HazRPG> and why the disc doesn't stop spinning when it has burnt something
<ali1234> maybe it's busily burning a hole right through it
<shauno> it's screwed into the case?
<HazRPG> shauno: erm... should be, why would that matter?
<daubers> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-uk/2011-March/029195.html
<HazRPG> its not using metal screws, its using those clip on and twist caps
<dutchie> daubers: apostrophes!
<HazRPG> DJones: I love how you were right on the money with that post being dreamcast based
<HazRPG> DJones: I just got one of my dreamcast games back from a friend, and he'd managed to scratch it to hell :(
<DJones> HazRPG: I had no idea, google search terms "ubuntu .cdi" :)
<HazRPG> I hate how some people don't know how to look after things :/
<daubers> dutchie: Not an englishist!!
<ali1234> i can see the need to differentiate between leader and poc
<shauno> HazRPG: the difference between ejecting a disk and ejecting the drive :)
 * daubers is starting to feel like the team secretary
<ali1234> daubers: you're talking a lot about decisions... can you give examples on the kind of decisions the loco has had tomake in the past?
 * DJones hands daubers a shorthand pad
<HazRPG> shauno: ah, my mistake >_< I meant disc
<ali1234> cos the only ones i'm aware of were "who to elect leader" and "what should we use for the new logo"
<HazRPG> think it could be bad drivers that causes it?
<HazRPG> because discs continue to spin
<HazRPG> regardless of what discs I put in
<shauno> drivers barely exist for cdrom.  it's ide, scsi & atapi.  and they're all old enough to be your grandma
<HazRPG> or whether I'm writing or just reading discs
<HazRPG> shauno: hmm,  but surely a disc shouldn't still be spinning when you press eject
<shauno> I think that's up to the hardware
<HazRPG> and it definitely shouldn't stop brasero from being able to eject it using its programming calls
<daubers> ali1234: It's more so that if the LoCo decides to do something and there is a lot of uncertainty, that kinf of paralises things under the current regime
<daubers> ali1234: In that scenario a "leader" as such could make a final decision on what occurs
<shauno> drives can block eject, using the lock call
<ali1234> daubers: examples?
<ali1234> like i said, i understand the general idea
<ali1234> how does it apply to this specific group?
<HazRPG> shauno: oh... hmm, I hate to utter the words - but I never had troubles with earlier ubuntu's nor under any windows install
<directhex> From: 	noreply@thedrinkshop.com
<directhex> Your order has been despatched.
<directhex> :)
<HazRPG> directhex: didn't realise one could order alcohol online :o!
<daubers> ali1234: An example would be if we wanted to make subtle change to how the irc rooms are monitored, that could easily cause a divide in opinion
<shauno> I'd assume, the same as any other group; it's a technicality to cover eventualities, but you hope you never need it because we're old enough and ugly enough to do things without clawing each others' eyes out
<ali1234> ah, good example
<daubers> It might also help reduce the level of apathy of in the group having a "leader" to help spur people on
<AlanBell> ali1234: I think it makes little practical difference, however as the topic has been raised this is as good a time as any to clarify it
<ali1234> well it seems to me the logical thing to do is option 2, but allow people to stand for both roles if they want to :)
<shauno> I think the 'day job' should simply be that canonical require a named point of contact
<ali1234> i mean option 3 :)
<AlanBell> the way I see it is that the defined "point of contact" role is the minimal level of leadership required
<shauno> having to make decisions because the rest of us can't reach consensus is the other extreme, and kinda indicates everyone's doing something wrong
<shauno> I think that's all I'm getting at.  that may, but shouldn't happen
<DJones> I guess a team leader would have the teams authority to make a decision on short notice if something needed to be decided upon before it could be discussed in meeting
<daubers> I'm happy to go with the group largley. But a small part of me thinks that there should be an administrative role and a lead type role. Hopefully we'll get lots of opinions though and then we can distil it and put it to a vote
<ali1234> yeah i agree
<ali1234> i don't see a need to elect the PoC if there is a formally elected leader
<ali1234> basically, the leader should just choose someone (probably at the same time they announce they will stand for leadership, kind of like president/vice president ticket)
<daubers> or you make the admin role a short fixed term, but that can add some uncertainty
<ali1234> nah i would not have a fixed term on the admin role either
<ali1234> if it is really just admin it has no power
<daubers> More so that everyone get's a chance to be useful
<ali1234> i don't think people complaining they don't have enough work to do is a problem you should worry about :)
<daubers> heh
 * suprengr thinks: it's Friday night, peeps should stop being so pedantic & have a drink instead   [...& then runs for cover!]
<ali1234> leadership should be fixed term though
<daubers> suprengr: I've already broken out the bottle of whiskey
<shauno> way ahead of you :D
<suprengr> daubers: good on ya mate - cheers ;)
<ali1234> but i'm looking at this from a "how do we stop a leader from becoming a dictator" pov rather than assuming that everyone is nice :)
<zleap> hi all
<shauno> that's depend hugely on what an admin role actually is.  otherwise it looks like 2 people, but still has one person calling the shots
<shauno> have there actually been any issues so far?
<daubers> ali1234: Yeah, thats why I added that to the bottom of that etherpad
<ali1234> do we even have more than 1 person who is actually interested in the job?
<ali1234> cos if we don't it is rather a moot point
<shauno> I'm not sure fixed terms are the right way to solve that
 * AlanBell gets out the "how to be a dictator book"
<HazRPG> wow my ratio for ubuntu-10.10-alternate-i386.iso is 162!
<shauno> if you say, this post lasts 2 years; you're just going to worry potential candidates that may not be able to commit to a full 2 years
<HazRPG> completely forgot I've been seeding that :P
<ali1234> AlanBell: psst http://www.constitution.org/mac/prince00.htm
<AlanBell> at risk of sounding like a dictator I am not sure that fixed terms are neccessary when we have the obligation to step down gracefully
<ali1234> AlanBell: fixed terms but no term limits
<ali1234> you can just stand again if you want
<shauno> that's it.  the solution for dictators is to have a way to get rid of them.  not a way to decide how long you'd like to be dictated over
<zleap> 2 years is a long time to say you can commit for
<AlanBell> shauno: agreed
<AlanBell> and we have that
<ali1234> zleap: it's a maximum not a minimum
<zleap> ok
<AlanBell> the loco council and community council are there to do exactly that
<shauno> zleap: 2 years was just a number picked out of the ether to form an example
<zleap> ok np
<shauno> that is exactly the example I was trying to make, just don't get hung up on the numbers :)
<ali1234> AlanBell: can't say i have much faith in that system... generally the further you go up the chain, the worse is the corruption, and the less they actually care. at least in my experience
<shauno> I'm genuinely curious what problems have been into so far.  even in other groups, or minor grumbles.  fixing boundless hypotheticals is difficult
<DJones> I'm tempted to say that the roles should be a combined one given that only AlanBell was willing to stand as POC which has most of a suggestion of being an admin role, if "Team leader" became available and multiple people stood for it, I'd be concerned that they were only standing for the apparant "kudos" that the position could be seen to infer
<shauno> ali1234: I'd kinda agree with that, but only because I have no idea who they are.  I wouldn't accuse them of anything, but I'd prefer a way the members themselves could say "oi, vote time"
<ali1234> shauno: yes exactly
<ali1234> what DJones said too
<AlanBell> um, well czajkowski is on the Loco Council, popey is on the community council
<AlanBell> both of them highly corruptable individuals
<shauno> sure.  this convo could use more popey really :)  but I'd hazard a guess that the majority would be people we only know by name, if at all
<AlanBell> https://launchpad.net/~communitycouncil/+members
<shauno> I tend to think this group is small & sensible enough that we could find a fairly painless process to "ask for a vote"
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil
<AlanBell> Popey is in fact on both
<shauno> so should be corrupted first
<AlanBell> :)
<shauno> popey and cztab are the only names on loco I recognize; for the other list, maco & Him, but feel too abstracted
<shauno> not really trying to argue anything, just stating that I do believe the one way to prevent dictatorships is to give people a way to rid themselves of dictators.  having higher beings we can appeal to is too abstracted from any other system I'm familiar with
<AlanBell> shauno: I have met most of them at UDS
<ali1234> is the community council or the loco council elected?
<AlanBell> yes, sort of
<AlanBell> except for Mark Shuttleworth on the Community Council
<ali1234> yeah ofc
<Azelphur> Anyone know if it's possible to have more than one fan get the automatic speed control from the motherboard with only one header?
<Azelphur> maybe something that reads the header and replicates it to a few other fans?
<AlanBell> and there is a shortlisting process which is a bit undemocratic (and unashamedly so)
<ali1234> Azelphur: just build your own fan speed controller
 * Azelphur isn't mcgyver
<AlanBell> and the eligible voters are Ubuntu Members for the community council and I think Loco Council too
<AlanBell> IRC council is slightly different
<ali1234> Azelphur: it's easier than building something that reads from the motherboard speed control
<ali1234> Azelphur: although software would be more complex
<shauno> temp->pwm shouldn't be terribly difficult.  you can find it in $5 bay controllers from china
<Azelphur> yea, except that I have no electronics experience and don't particularly want to start yet :P
<ali1234> the only person on either who i have heard of outside this channel is dholbach
<Azelphur> was just wondering if anything existed to do it
<ali1234> all you need is something to generate pwm
<shauno> http://www.dealextreme.com/p/5-25-pc-front-panel-lcd-thermostat-fan-speed-controller-with-overheat-alarm-15666 is an example; Â£7 shipped
<AlanBell> DJones: it was announced as both point of contact and team leader and I think most people had considered the terms to be interchangeable http://popey.com/blog/2011/03/03/ubuntu-uk-loco-team-leader-sought/
<Azelphur> shauno: nice, where does it get the temps from, is there a header on the mobo for it?
<ali1234> Azelphur: it has a bunch of thermometers
<shauno> the little yellow bits on leads appear to be thermometers
<popey> evening all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<ali1234> Azelphur: also looks like it can only control one fan
<Azelphur> I see
<ali1234> Azelphur: but thing is, you can build this for pennies with an avr chip
<ali1234> in fact there are probably several websites with schematics
<ali1234> you can probably do it even cheaper
<ali1234> i mean you can probably just amplify the pwm sigal and feed it into all the fans
<shauno> it'd be a fantastic place to learn if you have no experience, because the task is so very well defined
<Azelphur> baring in mind I have no electronics experience at all to the point that I havn't even replaced a fuse in a plug :P
<ali1234> an arduino board would be perfect for this if it wasn't a) huge and b) devoid of real usb capability
<shauno> I've got some pretty small arduino ;)
<ali1234> i found another good board: http://leaflabs.com/devices/
<ali1234> arduino compatible but with real usb on board
<ali1234> and no silly interface glue
<ali1234> gonna get a maple mini when it comes out
<shauno> http://shaun.oneil.me.uk/tmp/img_6634.jpg   they're the boards I use
<ali1234> http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/20100811_004.jpg is what i use
<shauno> they're arduino, but without the ftdi, and 3.3v so I can drive them from lipo
<HazRPG> shauno: woah, you smoke reds!
<HazRPG> shauno: I had to give those up for gold/light because of the morning after being weezy
<shauno> HazRPG: I don't, they came back from amsterdam and I certainly smoke freebies
<HazRPG> shauno: ah, well then carry on :P
<shauno> (which is why the label mentions something about toes)
<HazRPG> shauno: I smoke reds whenever I go to egypt - because they're cheaper than lights (granted both are still much cheaper than here!)
<MartijnVdS> you know what's even cheaper? :)
<HazRPG> shauno: :P What do you normally smoke out of interest
<shauno> letting someone else fund the NHS?
<MartijnVdS> Not smoking ;)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Someone has to fund the NHS... even if it is just us who's going to be using it more later on down the line xD
<shauno> at the time, I figured they made a good scale reference, as the packets are the same size everywhere
<HazRPG> shauno: makes sense :) - although don't forget super kings :/
<shauno> they're forgetable :/
<HazRPG> I hate people's reasoning for smoking those :/
<shauno> (and still maintain the scale from that POV)
<shauno> this etherpad thing is funky.  I haven't closed it yet, and I'm watching someone else's edits realtime
<phonex01> guys heelp plz
<phonex01> im using aircrack
<phonex01> when i change mon0 channel using " iwconfig channel 9 mon0"
<MartijnVdS> don't use crack.. it's bad for you
<HazRPG> phonex01: as long as its not for illegal purposes... ask away
<phonex01> mon0 set to channel -1 !
<phonex01> im using aircrack for the simulation course
<phonex01> not to hack someone
<MartijnVdS> Maybe your WiFi driver doesn't support monitor mode
<shauno> my biggest 'con' with fixed lengths is simply that it looks like it'd make people feel trapped into a fixed amount of time.  it appears we thin enough for volunteers without adding barriers
<MartijnVdS> lots of them don't
<HazRPG> phonex01: yeah, what MartijnVdS said :P
<phonex01> how can i make sure about that ?
<daftykins> aircrack has a way of testing if injection is working
<daftykins> among other things
<daftykins> amusingly enough it's all on their wiki
<HazRPG> phonex01: http://www.aircrack-ng.org/doku.php?id=compatibility_drivers
<AlanBell> there is an empty aircrack channel here
<AlanBell> topic is Current plan: #aircrack will be forwarded to #aircrack-ng, in the absence of the  original author, and since the original project seems to be dead. Please message lilo if you have any problems or issues with that disposition. Thanks!
<shauno> is -ng any less empty?
<HazRPG> #aircrack-ng has 92 people
<AlanBell> oh it is, loadsa people there
<AlanBell> but alis didn't know about it
<shauno> I'd have to suggest that'd be the right place to ask then
<HazRPG> AlanBell: yeah, I did find that odd too
<HazRPG> phonex01: best /join #aircrack-ng and ask your problems there - they'll be able to help out more
<DJones> w 13
<phonex01> i did
<phonex01> they are stupid
<shauno> 13?  you know you're an addict when ..
<HazRPG> phonex01: try looking on that site I linked you
<phonex01> i did
<HazRPG> any joy?
<phonex01> but they patch driver is not exist
<phonex01> i mean i got HTTP repsonse that the file is not found
<phonex01> wget http://superb-west.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/ieee80211/ieee80211-1.2.17.tar.gz
<phonex01> that file is not exist
<HazRPG> phonex01: try a different mirror: http://sourceforge.net/projects/ieee80211/
<MartijnVdS> Do you need that? Aren't those part of the stock kernel by now?
<MartijnVdS> The 802.11 stack?
<HazRPG> usually anything after the /sourceforge/ is the name of the project
<HazRPG> however yeah, you should already have it
<HazRPG> phonex01: what are you running it on? PC/Laptop?
<phonex01> laptop
 * MartijnVdS ponders ordering a 3G stick/sim from $work
<phonex01> my chip is supported
<HazRPG> phonex01: built-in wifi?
<phonex01> it is strange
<HazRPG> ah
<phonex01> yes
<phonex01> Intel
<HazRPG> which model?
<phonex01> Network controller: Intel Corporation WiFi Link 5100
<phonex01> 	Intel 4965/5xxx	iwlagn
<daftykins> you don't get much luck with Intel ones
<phonex01> really ?
<daftykins> nope, though it depends what you're doing
<daftykins> my 3945abg can support packet injection with the ipwraw driver
<daftykins> i use the backtrack 3 LiveCD
<phonex01> what about 4965  ?
<daftykins> just taking a class on network security and did a simple WEP cracking demo in fact, as old school as it is:D
<phonex01> ok then tell me what is the problem with 4965 ?
<daftykins> phonex01: you've already been linked to a hardware compatibility page, i've said they have a command to test, so pull your finger out and do something about it instead of expecting the answers to be handed to you
<phonex01> i did
<phonex01> i tested my device with injection test
<phonex01> and it is worked
<phonex01> 100%
<daftykins> so what's the problem...
<phonex01> ok i set the mon0 which is a virtual wlan deivce on channel 9
<phonex01> but when i make scan it says that mon0 is on channel "-1" !
<daftykins> when you say you're setting a channel, what are you really typing?
<phonex01> ok i type this
<phonex01> iwconfig channel 9 mon0
<HazRPG> what that might be why
<daftykins> why are you setting a channel anyway? :)
<daftykins> what are you trying to do...
<phonex01> i have to set the mon0 to have the same Freq as the Freq of AP im trying ti hack
<HazRPG> it should be iwconfig [interface] [command]
<daftykins> that's not how it works
<HazRPG> ah, see now it all comes out... monitor mode isn't really a channel, what your trying to do is filter out a specific channel
<HazRPG> you should know what MAC it is your trying to filter out
<HazRPG> and do it that why, not by channel
<phonex01> so ?
<daftykins> you start by running "airodump-ng <interface>" to see what's available
<phonex01> ok when i try to make ARP injection i have error
<HazRPG> s/why/way*
<phonex01> saying that AP working on channel 9 and my card on channel -1 !
<daftykins> then you run this to get it to start capturing packets from a given AP...
<daftykins> airodump-ng -c (channel) -w wep --bssid (paste AP's mac here) INTERFACE
<phonex01> i do that
<phonex01> i have problem with this
<daftykins> that much is evident
<phonex01> aireplay-ng -3 -b 74:EA:3A:BB:DA:04 wlan0
<phonex01> 23:27:19  mon0 is on channel -1, but the AP uses channel 9
<daftykins> ok well first off -3 is the wrong option for ARP injection :P
<phonex01> so how can i fix that ?
<HazRPG> isn't it -1?
<HazRPG> been a really long time since I've done this
<daftykins> -5 :>
<HazRPG> ah
<daftykins> well, depends which stage you're at
<daftykins> -5 is what you pick to capture a packet you then want to fragment
<daftykins> ready for ARP replay
<phonex01> you mean change -3 to-5 ?
<HazRPG> yeah
<daftykins> i doubt it's that simple
<daftykins> it looks like you're going wrong pretty early
<phonex01> 23:29:10  Waiting for beacon frame (BSSID: 74:EA:3A:BB:DA:04) on channel -1
<phonex01> 23:29:10  mon0 is on channel -1, but the AP uses channel 9
<daftykins> what interfaces does "ifconfig -a" list?
<phonex01> mon0 and mon1
<phonex01> and wlan0
<daftykins> 0o
 * kazade is using IRC through Empathy for the first time
<phonex01> i can remove mon1 by " airmon-ng stop mon1"
<HazRPG> right, okay... my advice is save everything you've got ... restart and try again dude
<daftykins> phonex01: so what course is this?
<HazRPG> kazade: its not as good as say pidgin or xchat though - you'll slowly notice that... e.g. /msg doesn't work :/
<phonex01> in modeling and simultion course we study that
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> modelling and simulation 0o
<kazade> HazRPG: Yeah, I might install Xchat again
<daftykins> whaaaat
<daftykins> irssi!
<daftykins> the masochist's client
<phonex01> do you know that aircrack uses simultion model to hack networks ?
<kazade> I've just installed ElementaryOS and it's so lightweight it seems a shame to bloat it up with apps ;)
<MartijnVdS> !xyproblem
<MartijnVdS> strange bot :)
<phonex01> so guys what is the problem !
<phonex01> it is really strange
<daftykins> phonex01: i don't know it uses such strange words 0o
<phonex01> me ?
<daftykins> phonex01: i don't really think an Ubuntu help channel really has anything to do with "help me crack WEP" really
<phonex01> i'm not asking that
<phonex01> and if i want to hack someone i have an embedded system do that
<daftykins> well whoop-de-doo
<phonex01> and if you dont know there is an embedded system build with wifi module and Microchip TCP stack can hack WEP , WPA and WPA-PSK
<phonex01> and i have it , but i dont want to hack someone
<dutchie> why do you have it then?
<daftykins> WPA TKIP maybe :>
<phonex01> why do i have it ?
<phonex01> thsi is my work
<phonex01> im working in Ics and embedded systems
<phonex01> and anything new in this filed i normally love to have it
<MartijnVdS> so set up your own network to hack
<MartijnVdS> you must have a spare AP lying around'
<MartijnVdS> ?
<phonex01> i want to use Aircrack because i have a presentation about aircrack
<daftykins> what are you running it from?
<phonex01> and by the way i have three internet lines
<phonex01> HSPA+ with 21 Mbps
<phonex01> so plz dont try to look like " owner man !! " first  im a msulim and i will never hack someone or someone network
<phonex01> because in m religion this behave is "forbidden "
<phonex01> got that ?
<phonex01> so if you can help me about aircrack then say what you have or keep silent
<daftykins> well with that attitude you can get stuffed
<DJones> !attitude | phonex01
<lubotu3> phonex01: The people here are volunteers, your attitude should reflect that. Answers are not always available. See http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines
<MartijnVdS> phonex01: (keep in mind: Speeding is forbidden, it still happens ;))
<daftykins> i for one cannot be bothered with you
<MartijnVdS> !xy
<lubotu3> The XY problem is when you need to do X, and you think you can use Y to do X, so you ask about how to do Y, when what you really should do is state what your X problem is. There may be a Z solution that is even better than Y, but nobody can suggest it if X is never mentioned.
<MartijnVdS> I think it's a case of that
<ali1234> wut
<DJones> Folks may want to step away from the keyboard for 10 minutes or so & let feelings settle down
<ali1234> you lost me at "XY"
<phonex01> ok im sorry anyway
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: http://mywiki.wooledge.org/XyProblem
 * MartijnVdS gets another beer :)
<shauno> DJones: did that a long time ago :)
<dutchie> ooh, beer
<dutchie> that sounds like a good idea
<daftykins> folks should suggest to folks less
<phonex01> ok i think i have to leave to help protesters or maybe wait for a while ....
<phonex01> anyway it is cold !
<shauno> tonight, my poison is baileys, watered down with various leftover christmas pressents
<shauno> it's my revenge for working 36 hours over paddys :)
<gr33npeace> shauno: like socks?
<shauno> gr33npeace: various whiskeys that I couldn't bring myself to drink straight
<gr33npeace> shauno: baileys and whiskey?
<Cepheus> ali1234: If you mention a problem, but only ask about a solution to your problem, it stops others from suggesting other solutions which might be better.
<shauno> gr33npeace: it's the only way to drink it
<gr33npeace> shauno: what's wrong with a dash of water,or a single icecube?
<shauno> gr33npeace: baileys is essentially cream & irish whiskey.  all I do is alter the ratio until it's a little less sweet, but enough to cover up the trash my neighbours gave me
<gr33npeace> shauno: hahaha, ok man... you're ok... I am jealous.
<gr33npeace> I saw there are some empathy users here, I was looking for a theme that's simple, but always posts the time next to the messages.... can anyone suggest one that fits the bill?
<HazRPG> phonex01: ooo I'm a muslim too :)
<phonex01> really ?
<phonex01> where are you from ?
<zleap> HI
<gr33npeace> you see, i work with some right lazy sods, and I want to start keeping them to their promises...  :D
<phonex01> HazRPG where are you from ?
<HazRPG> phonex01: UK
<phonex01> wlecome
<phonex01> ok im from jordan
<HazRPG> phonex01: mum's egyptian, and my dad is a revert
<phonex01> nice to meet you
<phonex01> talk to me on private ?
<HazRPG> nice to meet you too
<shauno> phonex01: I'm curious, and I hope this doesn't sound rude, but could I ask why you chose the -uk channel for this?
<zleap> english speaking perhaps,
<shauno> I noticed we had a visitor for lagos the other night, and I'm genuinely curious as to what brings them
<MartijnVdS> our hospitality :)
<gr33npeace> surely the welcoming and helpful british attitude?
<phonex01> hahah
<phonex01> why ?
<zleap> that too
<shauno> phonex01: as a brit, I'm genuinely curious what it is that draws people
<shauno> not trying to be negative at all; just nosey
<DJones> shauno: We get quite a few ukrainian thinking that -uk is ukraine
<shauno> DJones: see, that one makes sense to me
<shauno> but for instance, the person asking for help downloading backtrack a night or two ago, was lagos
<phonex01> shauni im not a TERRORIST !
<shauno> I'm not saying that's a bad thing, I'm just curious why the first person I've ever seen online from there, chose a -uk room
<daftykins> those poor people
<shauno> phonex01: nothing to do with that at all
<daftykins> even worse if they appear outside of UK hours
<phonex01> what do you mean ?
<HazRPG> see I at first thought -uk was ukrain at first when I was looking for a more localised LoCo about 3 years ago... but since I couldn't find a GB or GB-UK I assumed it was this one
<shauno> I mean it's nothing to do with terrorism :)  I'm not that kinda person   lol
<phonex01> i hope so
<ali1234> shauno: xchat autojoins this channel by default under certain conditions
<phonex01> becuase it is common idea about MUSLIMS
<HazRPG> phonex01: don't worry shauno's a nice guy, he's just curious :)
<ali1234> i'm not sure what those conditions are but there's got to be a chance of it getting it wrong...
<phonex01> ok no problem
<MartijnVdS> phonex01: It means that if you ask a question here at a time that's night in the UK, you might not get an answer, because everyone'll be asleep
<ali1234> everyone except me
<phonex01> ok then they have to wake up
<phonex01> hahah
<MartijnVdS> or HazRPG
<shauno> jordan's not so bad, because their timezone is close to ours.  when we're asleep, he'll be too
<shauno> lagos .. I'm not even sure where that is
<DJones> MartijnVdS: Except HazRPG Who'll still be awake :)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: Sure, but wait for the Aussies :)
<shauno> MartijnVdS: they're not banned?
<shauno> or are we on speaking terms since the ashes :)
<HazRPG> yeah, I'm usually awake at silly hours
<phonex01> it is 23:53
<MartijnVdS> shauno: that would explain their absence
<MartijnVdS> shauno: Kiwis as well
<shauno> seriously not trying to offend anyone.  just trying to understand the choice
<shauno> eg, I wouldn't go to ubuntu-fr looking for help
<MartijnVdS> shauno: issyl0 would :)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: It seems like a sane choice if you know (a bit of) the language
<shauno> but so does #ubuntu proper
<gr33npeace> shauno: sometimes I log into the Brasilian channel, as I am trying to learn Brasilian Portuguese...
<shauno> well, it doesn't it's full of crazies.  but it makes sense on paper ..
<MartijnVdS> It's why I'm here.. I speak English, I don't like #ubuntu (too crowded), or #ubuntu-nl (too stupid)
<MartijnVdS> So I came here :)
<Synth_sam> hi all
<daftykins> you can get newbie overload in #ubuntu
<MartijnVdS> shauno: Speaking of French -- http://3voor12.vpro.nl/speler/luisterpaal/44540018
<MartijnVdS> shauno: French summer pop :)
<shauno> fair enough, just thought I'd ask
<gr33npeace> daftykins: agree... it can scroll way too fast for me
<MartijnVdS> gr33npeace: Especially on release day :)
<phonex01> shauno do you like muslims ? or you hate them ?
<gr33npeace> MartijnVdS: oh god yes!  hahaha
<shauno> phonex01: that'd be a difficult discussion
<phonex01> why ?
<HazRPG> shauno: yeah I joined here since I wanted english-speaking people, I originally joined #ubuntu but the intelligence level of some of the questions was a bit... erm... "I'm sorry are you from the past!?" worthy
<phonex01> more details ...
<gr33npeace> phonex01: quite a general question there... do you like people or hate them!?  :)
<MartijnVdS> phonex01: To most people, it doesn't really matter what you believe in for them to help you, or to be friendly/friends with them
<shauno> phonex01: I'm not a huge fan of islam.  but much in the same way, I'm not a huge fan of christianity or judaism either
<MartijnVdS> At least, that's my opinion :)
<Myrtti> randomness
<DJones> phonex01: Thats not really an appropriate question to ask somebody
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: Randomness to you too!
<Cepheus> I don't have opinions on people because of their beliefs, just their actions.
<Myrtti> indeed
<phonex01> yes it is do you know why ?
<daftykins> oh dear, someone wants to setup SSH to a box they're already remote from
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: actually, that's a good greeting :)
<shauno> phonex01: I guess the main point is that I wouldn't think any less of someone for being a muslim.  or a christian, or jewish.  but the religions themselves  (any of them) .. they're just not my cup of tea
<Myrtti> mmmm tea
<daftykins> religions seem to make you have to... do stuff :)
<gr33npeace> love tea.
<phonex01> because since 1890 UK deal with Middle east as _____
<Cepheus> shauno: agree...  I am a man of science.
<daftykins> or not do stuff!
<phonex01> i dont ant to say that bad word
<gr33npeace> phonex01: do remember that foreign policy is one thing, "normal" people are another
<daftykins> unfortunately you go home tonight with our blankety blank chequebook and pen
<shauno> phonex01: safe to say, I have not been involved with UK foreign policy at any time since 1890 :)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: you didn't vote?!
<shauno> MartijnVdS: actually, no
<MartijnVdS> shauno: then the current libdem/etc. issues are your fault! :P
<Cepheus> politicians are elected by the general populace but rarely speak the minds of the general populace =p
<MartijnVdS> *ahem* ##politics
<shauno> I didn't register to vote before I left the UK, which has rendered me inelligible for overseas voting
<gr33npeace> MartijnVdS: they're my fault too...
 * dutchie waves his hand in the "not involved in UK foreign policy since 1890" camp
<shauno> ^5 dutchie
<ali1234> as if anyone here has any control over foreign policy
<dutchie> though i can't be blamed for being born 2 months later than what would have allowed me to vote in the last election
<phonex01> "normal" people are another !!!!
<gr33npeace> phonex01: yeah i know... no one in IRC is normal...
<daftykins> ali1234: Guernsey law could well rest in my hands!
<shauno> that's it.  we're people.  if you're people, welcome.  if you're a politician, there's better channels / prisons for you.
<phonex01> if so why they did not stoped there gov when they get in iraq in 2003 and destory it ?
<ali1234> daftykins: you could invade sealand perhaps?
<daftykins> that was last friday
<daftykins> it didn't end well
<Myrtti> soapbox is at hyde park
<dutchie> daftykins: did someone stub their toe?
<daftykins> dutchie: worse, there was... an incident
<daftykins> some bacteria were harmed
<dutchie> :o
<AlanBell> shauno: there is an #ubuntu-gb channel, it diverts to here
<AlanBell> in fact that is what xchat autojoins
<AlanBell> #ubuntu-$countrycode
<shauno> AlanBell: I'm not sure -gb would be any more obvious to either of the examples I can think of
<daftykins> two letter country codes can be quite cryptic
<daftykins> i should start up #ubuntu-gg
<daftykins> but there'd only be me in it
<shauno> but as I've been at pains to point out, it's a genuine curiosity, not a criticism of any kind
<HazRPG> phonex01: in all honesty, most people here don't really care for race/religion - as people are polite and friendly all are welcome here :)
<phonex01> ok we will not tallk about policy
<phonex01> or religion
<phonex01> now i think i have to go
<phonex01> protesters calling me !!!!!!!!
<gr33npeace> phonex01: good luck, stay safe!
<phonex01> hahahah i have a gun
<gr33npeace> ....
<phonex01> it is not that big
<phonex01> M16 hahahah
<shauno> I'll echo "stay safe" then.  you could have someone's eye out with that
<gr33npeace> or worse!
<phonex01> oh no man
<gr33npeace> you could definitely get a bruise
<DJones> phonex01: Thats enough, time to end that conversation
<phonex01> it is a tradtion here
<phonex01> oh DJones ?
<Myrtti> moving on
<Synth_sam> indeed
<phonex01> you speak like our police ?
<MartijnVdS> [ Meanwhile ]
<gr33npeace> anyway, I did come here to ask some advice from the masses
<gr33npeace> I saw there are some empathy users here, I was looking for a theme that's simple, but always posts the time next to the messages.... can anyone suggest one that fits the bill?
<MartijnVdS> gr33npeace: the default "time once in a while" theme isn't enough?
<ali1234> gr33npeace: if you find one please let me know
 * MartijnVdS doesn't know any other themes than default
<gr33npeace> MartijnVdS: oh!  I hadn't seen that!
<ali1234> gr33npeace: i've been looking for such for years, i even went and bugged the developers about it
<shauno> I think the time is driven by the engine, not the theme
<ali1234> yet still the only adium themes that work are the "hello kitty" ones
<gr33npeace> gross
<gr33npeace> ok, I will continue my search!
<ali1234> nope, you can do it in the theme
<ali1234> i even tried to make a theme
<ali1234> and uncovered a few bugs
<ali1234> still didn't actually manage to make empathy look decent though
<gr33npeace> gotta dash... Portuguese lesson!  cheers all and good night
<shauno> I may have to take up that challenge sometime.  I'm kinda used to adium
<shauno> (and realise that empathy's implementation is half-baked)
<ali1234> what you can't do with adium themes is auto colour nicks
<MartijnVdS> gr33npeace: good luck!
<ali1234> at least not time i checked
<ali1234> also there's something weird with the way paragraphs are formatted that makes everything run together into a huge wall of text
<shauno> adium itself is pretty horrid for irc.  it fares best at IM
<ali1234> couldn't seem to figure that one out either
<ali1234> i don't see why thetre is a different between irc and im
<ali1234> ugh
<shauno> there's more than 2 of us in here
<ali1234> so?
<shauno> so me & them is a colour issue which doesn't ordinarily exist
<ali1234> how does the special case of 2 people affect anything?
<shauno> there's stuff I sent vs stuff I received.  nick colouring is ancillary
<ali1234> the problem is that empathy devs see multiperson chat as a special case instead of seeing 2 people as a special case
<BigRedS> with IM you're normally pretty sure that whatever you didn't say was said by the single person you're talkin to
<ali1234> if you look at it this way it's not even that special
<shauno> BigRedS: bingo
<ali1234> anyway, the total failure of empathy and irc and the lack of a decent theme is the reason i don't use it
<shauno> adium is very much like gaim.  an IM client that does multiuser chat poorly
<BigRedS> I've never really been grasped by a want to treat the two the same, either. I have an IM client and an IRC client and I've never suspected that either should do the job of the other. But I don't really know why
<ali1234> gaim doesn't exist?
<ali1234> you mean pidgin?
<BigRedS> it's now pidgin...
<BigRedS> but it's still Gaim in my head
<ali1234> pidgin is what i use all day every day
<shauno> I frankly don't care what it's called.  you know exactly what I'm talking about
<ali1234> it works far better than empathy
<BigRedS> I use empathy 'cause it does XMPP priority
<Synth_sam> ali1234: the IRC in pidgin is terrible
<BigRedS> but then I get annoyed 'cause it doesn't do auto-idle
<ali1234> Synth_sam: maybe but it is still better than in empathy
<Synth_sam> true
<Synth_sam> I'm using irssi for IRC
<shauno> I haven't used linux on the desktop since 2006.  last I used it, it was called gaim.
<ali1234> point is, pidgin is the best client that supports both irc and xmpp
<HazRPG> hmmm, I'd just like to point out Jordanians are actually nice people
<Cepheus> I use weechat!
<Synth_sam> I have to use MSN, so pidgin is far superior to empathy
<HazRPG> its the Saudi's you've gotta worry about
<shauno> I have used empathy in a VM, but disliked it because it was difficult to close without it /part'ing channels I was in, which doesn't bode well with my setup
<Cepheus> I use empathy for most IM networks, emesene for WLM, and weechat via screen/ssh for irc
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: People are pretty nice people. It's the not-nice people you need to worry about ;)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: agreed
<MattJ> +1
<shauno> Cepheus: I use adium for IM networks, for which empathy seems a close equivalent.  and then irssi-proxy & whatever client is native at hand for irc
<daftykins> ooooh i hate my joooob :/
<daftykins> even though it's temporary
<daftykins> teaching is hell
<Cepheus> MartijnVdS: +1 for race-free people assessment
<shauno> I like teaching.  I dislike customers :((
<Synth_sam> daftykins: what are you teaching?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: There's a Dutch book about this "Het zijn net mensen" ("They're just people") -- http://www.bol.com/nl/p/nederlandse-boeken/het-zijn-net-mensen/1001004002412120/index.html
<HazRPG> ali1234: didn't realise you used Pidgin - I had you down more as a irrsi guy
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: google translate should help :)
<daftykins> Synth_sam: IT at A level, but not actual A-level, just at the same 'level' :D
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Don't worry, I've seen my share of different kinds of people - so I do know :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: good :)
<ali1234> HazRPG: i don't use crippled software just to seem more leet :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: this is the translation btw: http://www.stanley-livingstone.nl/luyendijk-people-like-us-b-3446.html
<shauno> MartijnVdS: I'm curious; does that mean belgians are people too?  ;)
<ali1234> got over that when i quit using gentoo
<Synth_sam> daftykins: ahh, I stopped studying IT "officially" at AS-level (years ago) it was dull
<MartijnVdS> shauno: Only if they bake good fries :)
<daftykins> Synth_sam: i'll bet. this is a BTEC national diploma course
<shauno> MartijnVdS: I converted a yank to fries & mayo.  that was a good day.
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: http://www.amazon.com/dp/1593762569
<MartijnVdS> shauno: haha, mayo++
<shauno> I use irssi 24/7, but rarely actually use it.  screen+irssi is my fallback, and the irssi-proxy module lets me throw whatever client I find best into the mix
<HazRPG> mayo++ indeed!
<Cepheus> i just like the old school feelin' =p
<shauno> so I can drop in on my shell, my desktop, my phone, without being a spammy mess of joins/parts/altnicks
<ali1234> never felt the need to irc while and out and about
<ali1234> i just read the scrollback when i get home
<shauno> quite often I'll be mid-conversation when it's time to leave for work
<shauno> I'll knock my phone on so I get beeped if anyone follows up
<ali1234> "sorry i have to go to work now ttyl"
<daftykins> mmm i run irssi (this one) from a VM on a file server
<shauno> I rarely (but have) talk all the way to work.  I just get a notification that way
 * MartijnVdS runs this on a vps
<shauno> this is on a vps, but via a local client atm
<shauno> that's why I love irssi-proxy.  I can be via  gui client one minute, via ssh the next; without spamming people
<ali1234> if people didn't want to know when people enter and leave the channel they would turn off those notifications...
<daftykins> it's better netiquette not to spam channels with clones
<daftykins> $nickname-guess-what-device-i-just-bought
<ali1234> that is a little bit annoying
<ali1234> $nick-laptop is okay
<ali1234> $nick-mbp is not :)
<daftykins> ^_^
<shauno> well, for instance
<shauno> I know people that show up as foo, foo|work, and foo|mobile
<MartijnVdS> foo|toilet
<shauno> I consider that bad form, and work my setup around it
<daftykins> foo|drivinghomeforchristmas
<ali1234> i just ghost myself
<shauno> they'll say, I forgot to close irc before I went to work
<AlanBell> http://blip.tv/file/4904015
<shauno> I just join in the same irc.  with multiple clients at work if it fits the situation
<shauno> er, at once
<shauno> (I never claimed to be sober)
<ali1234> AlanBell: "59 seconds = unacceptably stale news"
<shauno> I think the big part is, I'm not always a gobshite.  sometimes I'll peek in, and then leave again.  this way, I do so without a trace :)
<ali1234> i hope you were being ironic
<shauno> I knew one guy that'd show up as dave|mobile and then rant about how he had connectivity on the train.  again.  the same train he took home from work 5 days a week.
<shauno> I simply don't want to be that guy
<shauno> and irssi-proxy is so easy
<shauno> (and lets me define ports per the list work passes ;)
<daftykins> =]
<shauno> the one thing their nannywall does right, is give us a list of ports/services which are acceptable
<shauno> sad thing is, I used to have a free pass on it.  someone else took it up when we got aquired, and I found it easier to route around than to go play in the red tape
<daftykins> take it you're not in the IT department then?
<shauno> ish
<shauno> I'm on the dc team for our site.  the actual 'IT department' are in bangalore
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> "hallo sah"
<shauno> I will admit, they're not idiots
<shauno> they just don't seem to understand the different roles we have in place
<shauno> eg, I have access that's completely without my job description, because I train other people on those units
<shauno> that just doesn't seem to make sense to them at all
<daftykins> sounds like a bureaucratic workplace
<shauno> to the extent that I'm glad we outsource security locally, else I simply wouldn't have physical access
<shauno> there's 140-150 thousand employees globally.  bureaucratic barely scratches it
<shauno> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schneider_Electric   appears to be missing atleast 2, possibly 3 acquisitions
<shauno> the job itself is boring, but I get to train network integration for UPSes 39k to 499k, which is actually fun
<shauno> (we don't train 500k+, just stick a developer on a plain.  that's also entertaining, but in the wrong way)
<shauno> er, plane
<daftykins> :)
<Pendulum> shauno: are developers on a plane like snakes on a plane?
<shauno> possibly worse
 * Pendulum once ended up in a tabletop game that somehow involved snakes on a plain. 
<Pendulum> It was really the worst joke ever
<shauno> platform development are strange creatures
 * AlanBell contemplates snakes on an n-manifold#
<shauno> we had one walk off a site in $easterneuropeancountry because he was sick of being robbed
<AlanBell> if we consider the snakes to be one dimensional
<AlanBell> good job I don't make films isn't it
<daftykins> lmao
<shauno> they're simply not afraid of people in suits.  it's inspiring and terrifying at the same time
<daftykins> I ain't trainin' no ****ing developers on no ****ing plane!
<shauno> "dude, we got a call you didn't show up this morning.  where are you?"  "denmark."  "but we set you to ....."
<shauno> but yeah.  it makes getting anyone to agree to anything a complain pain in the rear
<shauno> I had to fight to get access to me.com so I didn't have to stuff my shifts into my phone one by one.  then it disappeared again
<daftykins> 0o
<daftykins> could be worse
<daftykins> your IT department where you work could ignore you until you stop trying to get stuff fixed :D
<shauno> oh it could.  my job's so easy I don't get yelled at for napping
<shauno> I just miss the old nannyfilter :)
<shauno> the old one had a lil box where I could type my key in and make it go away.  the new one just goes blah blah blah
<daftykins> mm
<daftykins> what product is it?
<shauno> I have no idea
<shauno> it doesn't give much away
<shauno> to the extent that when it first appeared, I was a little freaked out because I was seeing facebook 'like me' iframes that bore nothing but the corp logo
<ali1234> why is peter crouch on horizon?
<AlanBell> does this work for people: http://blip.tv/file/4904015
<ali1234> not if it is supposed to be more than 3 seconds long
<AlanBell> bother
<ali1234> the one you posted before way ok though
<BigRedS> i just got 3 seconds out of the twitter one..
<ali1234> wait its the same one
<ali1234> how odd
<BigRedS> s/3/only 3/
<AlanBell> blip seems to have now broken it
<ali1234> nice
<ali1234> use youtube
<ali1234> it actually works
<popey> http://blip.tv/file/4904015?filename=Alanbell-CircleOfFriendsTheTwitterClient799.ogv
<popey> its fine, their conversion to flv probably failed, it usually does
<ali1234> ah yeah that's probably why it worked for me before
<ali1234> if it hadn't finished converting
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
<daftykins> nn brobostigon o/
<brobostigon> good night daftykins
<dutchie> AlanBell: i saw a very interesting talk about mathematical flags, which included sticking 1-d vector spaces into n-d vector spaces
<dutchie> http://people.maths.ox.ac.uk/~grabowsk/talks/invariants11.pdf http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grassmannian
<dutchie> if you understand that, you are doing better than me
<popey> dutchie: see what you mean about the moon
<dutchie> yeah, it is very very bright
<popey> yeah
<popey> is it full tomorrow?
<popey> that'll make for a nice evening journey home
<popey> (after beer and rugby)
<dutchie> not sure
<dutchie> i would check my brit astro handbook, but i can't remember whether i got a 2011 one before my membership expired
<gord> brightest full moon in years tomorrow yep
#ubuntu-uk 2011-03-19
<shauno> so we're either gonna win, or turn into wolves and eat everyone
<shauno> as far as I'm concerned, either would be a stellar result
<zatan> :)
<jacobw2> moo
<jacobw> --screen
<Seeker`> bah, there are wrong people on the internet
<Seeker`> this should be fixed
<shauno> poo :(  scandal in ppuk already
<ali1234> what's a ppuk?
<HazRPG> I just bought a kindle... from tescos!
<ali1234> how much and can you use it without an amazon account?
<HazRPG> it was Â£150 with 3g+wifi, but they had the one with wifi for Â£105
<HazRPG> and I shall found out soon enough!
<ali1234> oh, you bought on line?
<ali1234> i thought you went to 24 hour tescos and bought one cash :)
<HazRPG> I did!
<HazRPG> that was in-store price!
<HazRPG> I'd say it was a bargain for getting it straight in your hands
<HazRPG> I didn't even plan to get one, was there for other things
<ali1234> ah cool
<HazRPG> saved me the ~Â£6 P&P price
<HazRPG> wow, I'm amazed at how thin this thing actually is!
<HazRPG> argh! holy cow!
<HazRPG> I thought that was the sticker!
<HazRPG> with the whole "step 1 charge your kindle"
<HazRPG> that was before I even turned it on, etc
<HazRPG> so I did... I pluged it on
<HazRPG> and looked away for a moment... and then looked back was about to pear the sticker... and noticed the screen changed!
<ali1234> it's eink
<ali1234> it only uses power when the display is changing
<ali1234> nifty stuff
<HazRPG> oh yeah, I know... but I never realised it was this clear!
<ali1234> you are making me want one
<ali1234> but i don't like to buy stuff from amazon
<HazRPG> heh, I got mine from tescos :P
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> they probably sell them at a loss anyway
<ali1234> but i mean books to put on it :)
<HazRPG> :P
<ali1234> especially given that ebooks cost the same as regular books
<HazRPG> I'm planning on buying ebooks from other places ;)
<HazRPG> ali1234: dude!!!!
<HazRPG> ali1234: you don't *need* to register this to amazon!
<ali1234> ok ok, it's not that exciting :)
<HazRPG> if you buy it >from< amazon, it gets set to you with your account already on it
<HazRPG> sent*
<HazRPG> but this way... you don't have to!
<ali1234> so when you turn it on
<ali1234> it doesn't force you to enter your details
<ali1234> the sony one does
<ali1234> can you use the free global 3g without an amazon account though?
<HazRPG> I'm reading the startup guide... but it says "at any point you can click home and leave this guide"
<HazRPG> so I'm going to read through, see what it all says and just click on the home - but plan NOT putting my amazon details in unless I really must
<ali1234> considering getting the wifi only version
<ali1234> don't really even need wifi tbh
<ali1234> usb is fine
<ali1234> which gen is it?
<ali1234> ah only v3 has the 3g option
<HazRPG> yeah, v3
<HazRPG> ali1234: you'll be pleased to know, if you buy from tescos... you don't need to set your account :D
<ali1234> cool
<HazRPG> aww, but the browser won't let you use it unless you do :/
<HazRPG> everything else seems to work though
<HazRPG> ali1234: hmm, this thing is pretty cool though
<HazRPG> I have a feeling, I'm going to need bigger discs
<HazRPG> I've coasted around 3 discs now :/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Phil Bull] Desktop Help - http://philbull.livejournal.com/59039.html
<HazRPG> this feels wrong... k3b seems to work so much better than brasero!
<HazRPG> I'm a gnome guy... kde stuff shouldn't be on here >_<
<ali1234> brasero has always sucked tho
<HazRPG> ali1234: what do you use?
<ali1234> i don't use cds
<HazRPG> hmm, the 'send "I am alive" ping to canonical' app on software centre... does anyone use it?
<HazRPG> as far as I can see, its for showing canonical how many ubuntu users there are out there...
<ali1234> i don't use software centre either...
<HazRPG> canonical-census is the name of the application
<ali1234> it's for OEMs
<HazRPG> ah
<HazRPG> that makes more sense
<MartijnVdS> Beautiful...
<MartijnVdS> [    30.229] (II) intel: Driver for Intel Integrated Graphics Chipsets: [load of chipset names], Sandybridge, Sandybridge, Sandybridge, Sandybridge, Sandybridge, Sandybridge, Sandybridge
<daubers> Morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
 * daubers checks the chilli plants and starts washing up ready to make bread
<MartijnVdS> hm
<MartijnVdS> I parsed that as "chilli plant" (factory) instead of "chilli plant" (green leafy thing)
<daubers> heh
<phonex01> hello guys
<phonex01> good morning
<HazRPG> morning
<popey> morning
<MartijnVdS> mornink
<MartijnVdS> I want to go out for a run
<MartijnVdS> but it's cold outside :|
<MartijnVdS> \o/ working va-api + vlc
<MartijnVdS> next stop: working DVB+VLC
<HazRPG> :P
<HazRPG> ali1234: ooo, apparently they've "jailbroke" the kindle 3
<MartijnVdS> For some reason my DVB card doesn't always execute tuning commands properly :|
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: typical :P
<MartijnVdS> so I have to tune 2-3 times before I get a signal
<MartijnVdS> (to the same channel, mind!)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: typical? why? :)
<popey> nice and sunny today here
<HazRPG> same
<MartijnVdS> popey: it's nice and sunny here as well, but it's still only ~5-6Â°C
<popey> heh
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: manufacturers not sticking to standards or making them do funny things
<popey> wonder why middle mouse click on one mac opens a new tab, middle mouse click on the other opens the widget thing
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: the same dish/switch works fine from my TV tuner
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: it must be something on my DVB-S2 card
<HazRPG> ah
<popey> ooo, configurable
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: It's a voltage thing, I think, or interference (a PC is noisier than a TV, electronically speaking)
<MartijnVdS> ("DiSEqC uses a pulsed (tone-burst) 22 kHz sine-wave at 0.5v peak to peak.", according to Wikipedia)
<danfish> morning
<danfish> who's going to the rubgy meetup then?
<HazRPG> where's it at again?
<danfish> Clapham Junction
<popey> o/
<czajkowski> Aloha
<AlanBell> o/
<czajkowski> AlanBell: howdy
<kazade> o/
<daubers> bread is rising!
<czajkowski> the 80's radio station is addictive
<czajkowski> so want a fry up this morning
 * AlanBell is going to a party
<czajkowski> I miss kids parties, no way to get rice crispy cakes any other way
<AlanBell> I think parties need more jelly and ice cream
<AlanBell> there will be chocolate brownie cake with icing and buttons on top
<czajkowski> not a love of brownies, find them too heavy.
<czajkowski> I could polish off a bucket of cocktail saussages and rice crispy cakes
<AlanBell> we do have 40 cocktail sausages, not sure about rice crispy cakes
<czajkowski> whoo
<czajkowski> nyommy
<czajkowski> had nandos as well last night, that place is soo friggin busy and so tasty
<alexcockell> Hi all..
<MartijnVdS> \o
<HazRPG> howdy everyone
<HazRPG> hmm... recalls someone saying they had a kindle...
<MartijnVdS> Lots of people have one
 * MartijnVdS has a Sony PRS-600
<MartijnVdS> which reminds me.. I need to charge it
<popey> moo
<popey> Jabber \o/
<MattJ> Jabber \o/
<MattJ> On a Saturday!
<MartijnVdS> XMPP \o/
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: hmm, just wondering ... because I'm not sure if I should register mine with amazon.com/.co.uk
<MartijnVdS> I never registered mine with Sony
<HazRPG> guessing you don't buy books from sony either then
<MartijnVdS> nah, most e-book stores won't let me buy from them :(
<MartijnVdS> A few Dutch stores will thoguh
<MartijnVdS> though
<popey> HazRPG: i bought mine before they sold them direct over here, and registered it with amazon.com
<popey> but recently they made an option where you can 'move' it to .co.uk, so i did that
<popey> not that i actually use my kindle now I have an ipad
<alexcockell> Got a new big mug delivered today...
<alexcockell> "Don't ask me till I've had my coffee"... 570ml..
<HazRPG> popey: surely the kindle wins over ipad for book reading though...
<HazRPG> battery-life wise...
<alexcockell> Yeah - I'm sure it does..
<alexcockell> now - if there was an open version of the Kindle - I'd be interested..
<HazRPG> alexcockell: nice :)
<popey> HazRPG: i never read for 10 hours straight
<popey> and i never worry about the battery on the ipad
<popey> if I was going on holiday I might take the kindle, but for day-to-day use, I dont use it anymore
<HazRPG> alexcockell: erm... kindle 1 & 2 have been known to have ubuntu installed on them ;)
<HazRPG> kindle 3 has just recently (feb?) found an exploit to run unsigned code
<HazRPG> so that could be next :)
<HazRPG> popey: clearly you haven't been on long flights before :P
<popey> i have
<alexcockell> Yeah - but do you need to jailbreak it first?
<popey> and i dont read for 10 hours straight
<popey> also I said "day to day" use
<HazRPG> alexcockell: yeah, you do, but the jailbreak is easy to remove traces of
<popey> i dont fly 10 hours every day
<alexcockell> S'pose so far, I've bought kit from Linux Emporium...
<HazRPG> alexcockell: since the kindle uses linux (or a unix variant??) as its core anyways
<alexcockell> Ahh - OK
<alexcockell> Of course - only way they have such good power management..
<alexcockell> Unlike the latest way MS bollocked up loads of machines...
<dwatkins> The Kindle's screen is also passive, which is much better for the eyes than the iPad
<directhex> kindle is linux
<HazRPG> popey: ah, sorry I missed that
<alexcockell> W7SP1... switch on autotuning on TCP/IP - and not warn anyone
<alexcockell> My brother was hit by it... was helping him ID the issue..
<HazRPG> popey: didn't realise the ipad had 10 hour battery life, that's pretty amazing if it does :O
<directhex> kindle battery is about a month, with the wifi turned off
<popey> it does
<directhex> (e-ink uses no power when the display isn't changing)
<HazRPG> directhex: I wasn't sure, I knew it was a unix variant - thanks for the confirmation :)
<HazRPG> alexcockell: yeah, the e-ink screen is the main reason for the good battery life (1 month!) - think of it like an etch-e-sketch
<alexcockell> Yeah - I sawe a friend's Kindle..
<HazRPG> directhex: you'll have seen the recent kindle 3 hack then?
<directhex> HazRPG, can't honestly say i care
<HazRPG> directhex: I was instantly amused when I read it this morning :)
<HazRPG> directhex: ah... hmm... I had it down that ya liked reading about this stuff...
<directhex> it's the wife's, it does what she wants
<directhex> the rest is a distraction
<HazRPG> oh, I just meant reading about hacks, exploits, etc
<directhex> only ones relevant to my interests
<HazRPG> ah ok, fair enough
<brobostigon> morning everyone.
<alexcockell> BBC News, Sky News - looks like NATO will be taking the gloves off soon...
 * MartijnVdS starts "F-19 Stealth Fighter" in dosbox
<MartijnVdS> It's how I learned Lybian cities back in the 90s :|
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> I've not yet seen anyone report on any offensive non-US presence of Libya's coast. I know we've got a friage or something hanging around, but is there a carrier or anythign with which to enforce a no-fly zone?
<BigRedS> I suppose there's always Italy...
<danfish> our carriers have no planes anymore
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: Italy, Greece
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: there's a US base on Sicily
<BigRedS> Ah yeah. It just seems (to me) to feel quite an empty threat unless there's a bunch of warships off the coast
<MartijnVdS> also, Dutch navy
<danfish> we have an agreement to share the French carrier, but it's only maaged to set sail once this year :(
<BigRedS> Ah, are the dutch there?
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: 3 people + 1 helicopter were caught a few weeks ago
<MartijnVdS> people have been released, helicopter not
<jpds> BigRedS: UK bases on Cyprus.
<BigRedS> Yeah, the lynx. I was just expecting much more of an in-your-face show of force from nato
<alexcockell> Oh.. that is coming..
<BigRedS> Nah, by now it surely makes sense to not bother with any sailing, if none's been done yet, and just use european bases
<danfish> unfortunately, the RAF is now a mess of aged tornados and typhoon's which noone can fly or maintain.
<BigRedS> the point would be to have the demonstration as a "look what we can do" rather than a "we've finally got round to doing what we wanted to do a few weeks back"
<BigRedS> danfish: yeah, I was amused at the announcement that it'd be a tornado sqn deployed first
<HazRPG> brobostigon: morning :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: good morning, :)
<danfish> alternatively we could send our new type destroyer...but the anti-aircraft missiles havn't been installed yet
<danfish> so I think it best we send a strongly worded letter and refuse to buy libyan dates :P
<danfish> and humus
<MartijnVdS> and oil
<BigRedS> danfish: That is the English way :)
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: especially if you get the queen to write the letter
<BigRedS> I've an entirely different view of the Queen since I started following Queen_UK on twitter :)
<danfish> BigRedS: only in recent times - in the past we'd have gone in with the Imperial Army and just taken over
<BigRedS> Nah, in the past the threat of the RN would've been a reasonable one
<BigRedS> rather than a punchline
<danfish> introduced the notion of tea parties and democracy then left ;)
<BigRedS> haha!
<danfish> tbf, 2-3 years ago we could have mounted an air blockade on our own
<brobostigon> hehe, the new icon for empathy from the gnome3-teams ppa, has a nice smiley on it, :).
<brobostigon> i figured out my k9 issue from yeysterday, gingerbread sucked too much ram, and didnt leave enough for k9 to run, so i am back on 2.2.1 where it ran fine.
<Cepheus> nothing like waking up on a saturday afternoon and eating bacon!
 * MartijnVdS has some http://blog.garion.org/2011/01/31/recipe-guild-master-spinach-pie/ 
<brobostigon> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~hydraulic-hybrid/+junk/saab-hybrid/view/head:/BareSaab1/BareSaab1.pde can someone tell me, why iamgetting a  ledpin not declared inthi scope error on line 36, please.
<brobostigon> i just cant see it.
<czajkowski> danfish: enjoying the conference
<brobostigon> damn, typo, LedPin != Ledpin. :(
<brobostigon> balls.
<Pendulum> hiya czajkowski :)
<czajkowski> Pendulum: hi
<Pendulum> czajkowski: how's you?
<czajkowski> grand
<czajkowski> sobered up from last night
<czajkowski> had bacon
<czajkowski> no sleep
<czajkowski> and now heading out once I've had a shower to go back drinking
<brobostigon> stupid typo, it compiles now.
<Pendulum> and rugby :)
<Pendulum> (at least I assume there will be rugby-watching in with the drinking :P )
<Pendulum> czajkowski: I went out and bought magners last night specifically because of rugby watching today ;)
<czajkowski> yup
<czajkowski> heading to the pub for around 4ish
<Pendulum> :)
 * brobostigon is thinking about pub now aswell.
<Pendulum> I seriously considered trying to head to NYC for the day to watch with the group I watched with last year
<czajkowski> Saturday 19th March - Scotland v Italy - 2.30pm
<czajkowski> Saturday 19th March - Ireland v England - 5pm
<czajkowski> Saturday 19th March - France v Wales - 7.45pm
<Pendulum> :)
<czajkowski> right
<czajkowski> shower
<czajkowski> and vanishing time it seems
<czajkowski> toodles
<Pendulum> have fun!
<popey> :)
 * MartijnVdS decides it's time for tea
<czajkowski> popey: see ya later
<popey> o/
 * popey has just lined his stomach with a vast amount of chinese food
 * AlanBell is back from the party
<Pendulum> AlanBell: how'd it go?
<AlanBell> they all had fun
<AlanBell> lots of screaming
<AlanBell> the rugby is later than I thought it was
<Pendulum> :)
<phonex01> hello guys
<phonex01> i found the problem with mon0: -1 in aircrack
<phonex01> there a simple patching for that i did it and now im compiling compat-wireless
<phonex01> but i have question here
<phonex01> i have keneral 2.6.35-27 and compat-wireless i use is 2.6.38-3 ?
<phonex01> so is there any problem with this ?
<BigRedS> phonex01: From a quick look at their site, should be good
<phonex01> really ?
<BigRedS> though I can't work out how you'd get that version string, they seem to use dates
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Andy Loughran] FPTP versus AV - http://zrmt.com/2011/03/19/fptp-versus-av/
<BigRedS> it certainly implies that any version will compile against an 2.6 kernel
<suprengr> Boo!
<alexcockell> Hiya Suprengr
<alexcockell> popey - Useful that most Chinese places run right through from 12-late...
<ging> what does ./configure do ?
<ging> or atleast what is it meant to do?
<DJones> !compile | ging Have a look at this, about a third of the way down explains it
<lubotu3> ging Have a look at this, about a third of the way down explains it: Compiling software from source? Read the tips at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CompilingSoftware (But remember to search for pre-built !packages first)
<ging> do i need to install it first/
<dutchie> no
<dutchie> the configure script sets up the Makefile with all the right paths for libraries and installation
<dutchie> (usually)
<DJones> !checkinstall
<lubotu3> checkinstall is a wrapper to "make install", useful for installing programs you compiled. It will create a .deb package, which will be listed in the APT database and can be uninstalled like other packages. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CheckInstall - Read the warnings at the top and bottom of that web page, and DO NOT interrupt CheckInstall while it's running!
<DJones> ging: If you're compiling something from source, it might be worth looking at the Checkinstall info as it could make it easier to remove something afterwards as it installs from a .deb file
<suprengr> Trying to view a webcam [Dartmouth live] and Firefox states "QuickTime does not support the current MPEG-4 setting. Go to Setup->Video&Image->Advanced->MPEG-4 and set Video object type to 'Simple' for QuickTime to work"  [Chromium is less than helpful with settings]  no alternatives in Firefox work.  Any ideas?
 * AlanBell looks up train times to clapham
<ging> i dont understand why ./configure doesnt work then, if i type than into a terminal with current directiory if what i want to compile that should work right?
<BigRedS> configure normally tells you what's wrong when it doesn't work
<ging> no it say no such file or directory
<ging> do i need to install configure ?
<BigRedS> are you trying to run it in the right directory?
<BigRedS> you need to be at the root of the source
<BigRedS> usually, untar the tarball, cd into the new dir and you're there
<BigRedS> sometimes you need to be in a subdirectory of it
<ging> that's what i've done
<BigRedS> but you need to be in the directory containing the 'configure' script
<ging> oh so configure isnt a program ?
<BigRedS> it's a script
<BigRedS> the distinction is fuzzy
<BigRedS> but it's in the source you downloaded, not something installed on your PC
<BigRedS> the './' tells bash that it's looking for something in the current directory ('.')
<BigRedS> so './configure' tells bash to execute the file named 'configure' in the current directory
<ging> well there is no script called configure in this dir, there is 1 called config.h
<BigRedS> is there a readme?
<ging> yeah there is a readme but there is nothing in there about it
<ging> i think it must be missing the config script
<dutchie> ging: it might not have one. is there a Makefile already?
<ging> dutchie: there is a make file but it fails
<dutchie> fails how?
<ging> epically
<ging> http://pastebin.com/zs6jQS3K
<dutchie> ging: looks like you are missing pcap.h
<dutchie> http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?searchon=contents&keywords=pcap.h&mode=&suite=maverick&arch=any
<dutchie> try installing the libpcap0.8-dev package
<ging> ah it work thanks
<dutchie> np
<MichealH> Hi all
 * brobostigon shakes fist at Xorg, gpu hang, :(
<bigcalm> I would say hi, but I guess everybody is at the rugby
<brobostigon> afternooings bigcalm :)
<bigcalm> Hi :)
 * dutchie is watching rugby at home
 * brobostigon is trying to avoid rugby, but cant.
 * DJones is at home catching up on tv
<MartijnVdS> DJones: Doctor Who special :)
<DJones> MartijnVdS: No, Blue Bloods
 * brobostigon uses get_iplayer toget click, which got killed off again, due too ther news.
<brobostigon> to other*
<MartijnVdS> yeah they should stop having news!
<MartijnVdS> People of the world! Today shall be a news-free day! :P
<brobostigon> :)
<bigcalm> Anybody into their JS (jQuery in particular)?
<MartijnVdS> !ask | bigcalm
<lubotu3> bigcalm: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: you know that ;)
<bigcalm> Well, it's not very ubuntu related :P
<MartijnVdS> Still
<bigcalm> Fair enough :)
<MartijnVdS> it's quiet
<bigcalm> I'm appending some HTML into an element from inside a function. Once the logic flow has left the function, the created HTML isn't available to other functions
<bigcalm> Wondering how to make it persistant
<MartijnVdS> don't "add HTML", but add DOM nodes
<MartijnVdS> they should show up
<bigcalm> Ok, I'll give it a go
<MartijnVdS> jquery makes that easy
<brobostigon> weird, i canonly find the short versionof click on iplayer.:(
<brobostigon> ithink i will listen to bbc digital planet insted.
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: http://paste.ubuntu.com/582539/ # made it verbose yet it's still not available outside of the function.
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: the div and the ul both exist outside of the function, but LIs do not
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: read the "will not change" bits on http://api.jquery.com/add/
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASXnFRYf6LI
<shauno> heh, that was pretty nifty
<suprengr> was thinking of putting 'home' directory on separate partition to use on other versions.  do I copy current home/... or myusername/ [under home] to that partition I wonder?
<shauno> I'd tend to move /home itself
<duvelhedz> Move /home and be sure to modify your fstab to mount by uuid
<shauno> (also, the word 'copy' makes me tweak; if you copy /home to a new filesystem, mount it over your old /home, the old contents of /home will still use up disk space but won't be accessible at all)
<ali1234> if you move /home itself to a new partition then mount that partition on /home you will have /home/home
<ali1234> which is pobably not what you want
<MartijnVdS> unexpected backup ;)
<DJones> I wonder whether czajkowski is cheering at the minute
<brobostigon> DJones: ithinkthat might be a fair bet.
<DJones> Either that or the England camp have gagged her
<brobostigon> hmm.
<duvelhedz> I'm down at the northcote now and I don't see anyone here
<brobostigon> duvelhedz: please elaborate, i amnot familier with the name.
<brobostigon> sorry.
<DJones> duvelhedz: Are you looking for the ubuntu-uk rugby meetup
<duvelhedz> It's where the ubuntu rugby meetup us meant to be
<duvelhedz> Did they go elsewhere
<DJones> I can see czajkowski on twitter, give me  a minute, I'll send a message & ask
<duvelhedz> Thang
<duvelhedz> Thang
<duvelhedz> Thanx
<DJones> duvelhedz: No reply yet, I'd say just look for one Irish person cheering, surrounded by a bunch of people pretending to have no interest in the rugby
<duvelhedz> Have had a look around the whole place, no sign of them but the place is rammed, thanx DJones
<DJones> duvelhedz: czajkowski Just said they were in front of the bar
<duvelhedz> Great, thanx for that
<DJones> Hope you find them
<brobostigon> DJones: did you see that picture of czajkowski popey,posted on twitter.
<DJones> brobostigon: no, I've not seen it
<DJones> link?
<brobostigon> DJones: http://twitpic.com/4b3txj she got her wish. :)
<DJones> Heh
<duvelhedz>  Found them, thanx
<brobostigon> :)
<DJones> duvelhedz: You're welcome
<brobostigon> DJones: i was playing on popey's joke.
<Azelphur> haha, I have an excellent way of dealing with troublemakers on minecraft
<Azelphur> "Repair the damage you did or ban"
<Azelphur> I feel like the police officer who makes the kids clear the graffiti off the walls.
 * DJones notes that Azelphur admits to looking like dixon of doc green :)
<Azelphur> doc green? :P
<DJones> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixon_of_Dock_Green
<duvelhedz> Victory to Ireland. Hurray
<DJones> heh, there will be a lot unhappy england fans tonight
 * brobostigon  shakes fist at xorg, gpu lockup.
<MartijnVdS> again?
<MartijnVdS> what kind of gpu?
<MartijnVdS> natty has special debugging enabled in the intel drivers
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i didnt know, interesting, intel on my eeepc.
<MartijnVdS> xserver-xorg-video-intel (2:2.14.0-4ubuntu2) natty; urgency=low
<MartijnVdS> * apport-gpu-error-intel.py:
<MartijnVdS> part of apport
<ipopey> Moo
<DJones> Quack
<MartijnVdS> baah
<MartijnVdS> ooh.. "top 100 one-hit-wonders of the 80s"
<MartijnVdS> go VH1 :)
<DJones> MartijnVdS: No doubt "I am the one & only" will be No 1
<MartijnVdS> DJones: nah. Dexys Midnight Runners, apparently
<DJones> MartijnVdS: Come Eileen by any chance?
<MartijnVdS> DJones: exactly
<DJones> Or for czajkowski, should that be "Come on Ireland" :)
<MartijnVdS> DJones: http://blog.vh1.com/2009-04-01/100-greatest-one-hit-wonders-of-the-80s-read-the-list-2/
<MartijnVdS> haha - Shannon - Let the Music Play... heard a new remix of that a few months ago
<penguin42> really helps when I remember to plug my laptop in
<MartijnVdS> haha
<MartijnVdS> oops
<brunogirin> hi all, trying to configure a synaptics touchpad properly but now that ubuntu doesn't have an xorg.conf anymore, I'm struggling to do that via udev rules, in particular I can't seem to get the SHMConfig option to work, can anybody help?
<dutchie> i probably could if it was actual simple harmonic motion
<dutchie> not so good at udev rules as at differential equations though
<directhex> you can still use an xorg.conf for some things
<penguin42> brunogirin: You can create an xorg.conf or fraction there of
<brunogirin> penguin42: so for instance, I could create an xorg.conf with just the input device configuration? where does it go? /etc?
<penguin42> brunogirin: Yes you could - just create an /etc/X11/xorg.conf I think
<penguin42> brunogirin: Ah sorry, it checks /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d
<brunogirin> penguin42: and there is a file called 50-synaptics.conf in there, which is probably the one I want to modify, thanks :-)
<penguin42> no prob
<MartijnVdS> you don't want to modify files in /usr/
<MartijnVdS> they get overwritten on upgrade
<brunogirin> MartijnVdS: thanks for the advice, where should I create the correct config files so that they don't get overwritten on upgrade?
<directhex> xorg.conf is fine.
<directhex> consider that every nvidia-glx or fglrx user has one
<brunogirin> directhex: ok, so if I create one using the method detailed here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Config and then remove everything I don't want to override, I should be ok?
<directhex> more or less.
<brunogirin> will try right now, thanks
<duvelhedz> I never thought the English would be singing Allez Les Bleus!!
<brunogirin> directhex: if I create a partial xorg.conf in /etc/X11 XOrg fails to start... should I create a xorg.conf.d directory and put my partial bits in there?
<directhex> brunogirin, too partial, perhaps? what does xorg.0.log say?
<brunogirin> directhex: ah ok, it tells me that the option I added (SHMConfig) is not valid in that section, I'll investigate further so see where it should go
<MartijnVdS> shmconfig has been obsolete for a while now
<MartijnVdS> You can set settings using xinput
<MartijnVdS> xinput list
<MartijnVdS> then xinput list-props id_of_device_here
<MartijnVdS> and to set:
<MartijnVdS> xinput set-prop id_here property_id new_value
<brunogirin> MartijnVdS: ok, I was hoping to use SHMConfig to be able to run synclient -m in order to see what the different areas of the touchpad were so that I can set BottomEdge properly as I have a touchpad with integrated buttons
<brunogirin> besides, how can I then set the preferences in a way that will work when rebooted? can I do that in udev rules?
<MartijnVdS> you can see/set all that using xinput
<MartijnVdS> well
<MartijnVdS> don't know about the persistence bit
<knightwise> morning !
<knightwise> well... evening
<jacobw> evening knightwise :)
<knightwise> hey jacobw a
 * jacobw is flicking through jono's book
<phonex01> hello guys
<phonex01> good night
<phonex01> Hz you there ?
<czajkowski> teeeheeeee
<jacobw> http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/mar/19/super-moon-closest-point-years
<DaveMorris> ok, I'm not sure if this device exists but I was looking for a device which appears as a FAt32 drive to the machine/device it's plugged into, but it infact pulls the data down via nfs/dlna
<gord> DaveMorris, because fat32 is a map of blocks i don't think such a thing could reasonably exist
<DaveMorris> in theory it could if the nfs share is FAT32
<DaveMorris> does it make sense what I'm asking for?
<Daviey> DaveMorris, You are looking for a virtual device which presents itself as a FAT32 disk, but is really an NFS share?
<DaveMorris> yeha
<gord> DaveMorris, and what happens when windows 98 attempts to defrag the drive?
<DaveMorris> it's to enable my non DLNA blu-ray/tv/dvd players to become DLNA
<DaveMorris> they are able to play files found on a USB stick fine
<Daviey> DaveMorris, Never done it, but look at dummy_hcd
<Daviey> Dave2, hmm - seems ideal, http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/samygo/index.php?title=Mounting_an_CIFS/SAMBA_share_on_a_USB_device_to_bypass_DLNA
<Daviey> i imagine you could swap smb -> NFS.
<DaveMorris> just found that
<Daviey> heh
<DaveMorris> looks like they are telnet'ing to the TV
<DaveMorris> and mounting it like a standard nfs mount
<Daviey> hmm
<DaveMorris> initial research seems it's not easily done, or where it cna be done it's expensive
<Daviey> DaveMorris, Hang on, so you want a physical usb device that is really network mounted storage, but presented as vfat?
<DaveMorris> yes
<Daviey> DaveMorris, I would say you need a linux device which allows you to convert a usb socket from host to device... they are pretty common.. I seem to remember my N810 could do it.
<DaveMorris> yeah, thats what I was thinking but it's prob not worth the money to do it.
<Daviey> DaveMorris, I wonder if it would be easier to do from a network block device, perhaps iscsi
<Daviey> DaveMorris, I would like to know if you do bother, not that i need it, just interesting.
<zleap> erm is it meercat or meerkat
<zleap> trying to spell check my website
<jacobw> meerkat
<zleap> thanks
<zleap> i thought i had corrected it, but aparently not, have done so now
<zleap> so next time i upload it will be correct
<jacobw> :)
<Azelphur> someone on my minecraft server built a binary counter :o
<Azelphur> it counts up to 7 in binary when you press button haha
<zleap> nic
<zleap> nice
<phonex01> guys damn i found how to fix error with aircrack !
<phonex01> it was not that easy but it is ok now
<phonex01> my wifi fully support injection and monitor mode but the problem was with negative channel representation
<czajkowski> teeeheeeee
<dutchie> czajkowski: not a word
<czajkowski> akoha :)
<czajkowski> grin
<dutchie> we still finished above you in the league
<czajkowski> yes true. but the important game. we beat you
<zleap> Daviey, you able to come to the next devon adn cornwall lug meet on the 2nd April ?
<dutchie> we still won i am putting my fingers in my ears we won we won we won
<zleap> who won
<dutchie> england
<czajkowski> :)
<czajkowski> urelqnd
<dutchie> (although ireland won today)
<czajkowski> ireland
<zleap> ah rugby
<jacobw> lol @ urelqnd
<zleap> yeah we won the six nations but not the grand slam
<zleap> :(
<Daviey> zleap, I really wanted to come to the one today, but daughter had an event i needed to take her to :(
<zleap> ok np
<zleap> well right now we have 3 venues and 3 meets amonth
<marxjohnson> Can someone not currently in GMT do me a favour? Go to http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org and tell me what the countdown says?
<marxjohnson> to the nearest hour is fine
<Daviey> marxjohnson, Asking a channel full of people predominately in the UK, if they are on anything other than GMT? :)
<mumbles_> yeh
<AlanBell> marxjohnson: did you break it *again*
<mumbles_> damm onley got one beer left
<marxjohnson> Daviey: Silly idea I know, but this channel seems the most likely to be helpful in this case ;-)
<marxjohnson> AlanBell this is what I'm trying to establish
<marxjohnson> Aha, browsershots.org doesn't appear to be on GMT, so that's answered it for me, and it's working (aside from a small DST issue)
<AlanBell> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/wp-content/themes/uupc4/countdown.php looks good to me :)
<AlanBell> I have to say, nobody does smugness quite the same way that czajkowski does smugness
<Pendulum> AlanBell: good time out?
<AlanBell> yup
<AlanBell> did you watch online?
<Pendulum> I watched all of England v. Ireland :)
<Pendulum> and all of Scotland v. Italy
<Pendulum> and other than the 30 minute period where the PPV stream didn't work (I can't say what I think of it in this channel ;) ), Wales v. France
<Pendulum> almost wish I'd not been able to see the entirety of that last one though :-/
<Pendulum> because then I wouldn't have tortured myself and would have felt justified claiming money back
<AlanBell> I didn't pay much attention to it
<AlanBell> we were mostly drowning our sorrows
<Pendulum> other than czajkowski
<AlanBell> other than czajkowski, yes
<Pendulum> who I assume was drinking as celebration?
<AlanBell> and some other Irish folk who were in the pub
<Pendulum> Wales just kept making really stupid mistakes :(
<Pendulum> and there was a bad call against them which ended up with Hooker being given a yellow card :(
<bigcalm> Hey kids, what's shaking?
<dutchie> perhaps not the best turn of phrase given recent events
<Pendulum> hiya bigcalm
<bigcalm> That's my parents' server updated to 9.10.  I think that updating to 10.04 can wait until the morning
<AlanBell> night all o/
<bigcalm> Shame I couldn't jump from 9.04 to 10.04
<bigcalm> Night AlanBell
 * bigcalm sleeps as well
<bigcalm> Night Pendulum :)
<Pendulum> g'night bigcalm AlanBell
<bigcalm> :)
#ubuntu-uk 2011-03-20
<czajkowski> :)
<duvelhedz> gord: The answer to windows 98 is to up your ram to 256 and install lubuntu
<duvelhedz> czajkowski: I'm on the way home now
<knightwise> MOrning
<HazRPG> hmm, I can't get calibre to convert a cbr (essentially a rar/zip file of images) into a pdf or any other eReader format
<HazRPG> anyone know anything
<knightwise> hey HazRPG
<knightwise> try calibre
<HazRPG> knightwise: hey dude :)
<knightwise> it might work
<HazRPG> knightwise: I'm using calibre ;)
<knightwise> frack
<knightwise> so much for my good advice
<HazRPG> I know!
<HazRPG> heh
<HazRPG> nah, see I'm using calibre and its added it to the library and I can open it in calibre
<knightwise> http://www.freewaregenius.com/2006/11/16/how-to-convert-cbz-cbr-files-to-pdf/
<HazRPG> but I just can't see to get it to convert to any other file format :/
<knightwise> but its a win app
<HazRPG> I was about to say :P
<HazRPG> don't fancy booting into windows
<knightwise> ill give it a google when i have the time , have you tried the twitterverse ?
<HazRPG> is that the terminal twitter?
<HazRPG> *shrug*
<HazRPG> don't know what twitterverse is... so I'm going to assume no lol
<HazRPG> ah wait
<HazRPG> would help if I read the full details of the error
<HazRPG> seems I'm missing a .so file
<HazRPG> OSError: libunrar.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
<HazRPG> hmm, apparently I already have unrar :/
<knightwise> ah yeah i got that error once too
<knightwise> now i remember , but i didnt get it to work cause i could not find the so file on the web
<HazRPG> ah, think I've found it
<HazRPG> apparently the tarball for calibre has the .so file inside it
<HazRPG> and all I need to do is copy it to /usr/lib :)
 * HazRPG sets off download
<HazRPG> yes!
<HazRPG> \o/
<MartijnVdS> \o
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: o/
<MartijnVdS> Time for some serious houswork L|
<MartijnVdS> :|
<HazRPG> :P
<czajkowski> Aloha
<MartijnVdS> hi czajkowski
<czajkowski>  /c
<alexcockell> MOrning..
<alexcockell> Housework?  What's that?  ;)
<popey> morning
<czajkowski> popey: how do
 * popey remembers eating a kebab on the way home with alexcockell 
<popey> er AlanBell
<MartijnVdS> You can't even remember which one? :)
<MartijnVdS> (or was that just lazy tabbing :))
<popey> yes
<czajkowski> very late when I got back
<popey> :)
<alexcockell> Popey - when was that?
<popey> nvm
<alexcockell> Ahh... typing while still waking up?
<AlanBell> morning
<AlanBell> heh
<czajkowski> AlanBell: howdy
<AlanBell> had a conversation with Aine ealier: "did you eat anything when you were out" "no" "you must be starving" "not really . . .  . . . ohh, there may have been a kebab involved at some point"
<alexcockell> Sky currently geeking about Storm Shadow...
<alexcockell> Sorry - wrong channel
<czajkowski> *yawns* no sign of keith being alive down stairs
<popey> i bought him a pint that he refused to drink because "it smells and tastes of farts"
<popey> :)
<alexcockell> Oh - of course - was a big rugby thing, wasn't it..
<czajkowski> popey: oh dear
<alexcockell> Pints of coffee being prepped for house occupants?
<czajkowski> I left sorcha in the pub with the other guy whos name I dont remember and we got the 23:00 train home
<AlanBell> I really think at these events we need name badges for people who are not called Alan
<czajkowski> lol
<AlanBell> was it duvelhedz
<AlanBell> or was that Keith?
<czajkowski> duvel is alan
<czajkowski> keith is talideon on irc
<popey> czajkowski: graham?
<czajkowski> ahh yes
<popey> czajkowski: he's lovely, I've known him for a few years now
<Myrtti> boo
<Myrtti> I can't remember D's tesco password, I can't order him a birthday cake delivery for tomorrow on his expense
<Myrtti> :-/
<Myrtti> not that it matters, I don't know at what time he'd be home to receive it
<AlanBell> its the thought that counts Myrtti
<AlanBell> well actually when the thought is about cake, it might actually be the cake that counts
<Myrtti> indeed :-(
 * AlanBell has cake
 * BigRedS will have cake shortly
<BigRedS> I'm being made to leave the house for it, though, which I think is most unfair
<Myrtti> I've got vanilla bagels and cream cheese
<Myrtti> I guess that makes up for the cake, he did have some yesterday
<czajkowski> going to head to London
<czajkowski> any suggestions for things to do today
<ging> the ubuntu network manager is infact magical
<ging> czajkowski: do you like dinosaurs?
<popey> thanks for organising last night czajkowski  / danfish
<popey> we should do that again
<czajkowski> aye
<czajkowski> bit of a laugh alright
<czajkowski> :D
<czajkowski> knew it would be a good match :D
<ging> popey: did czajkowski get drunk and do anything her co-works shouldnt know about?
<czajkowski> ging: start that lark buddy trolling me here and you and I will have some issues :)
<czajkowski> am I being clear enough :)
<ging> i was only joking
<czajkowski> just to be clear :)
<czajkowski> plus I helped get you the job so you've to be nice
<Myrtti> I suppose every nation needs their silly sports
<Myrtti> I don't try to understand cricket or rugby, and I don't expect anyone to understand pesÃ¤pallo or kyykkÃ¤
<popey> i was there for the beer and friends, not the sport :)
<czajkowski> have to say watching that kinda game in an english bar, was defiantely interesting
<ging> were you the only irish fan there?
<czajkowski> nope
<czajkowski> there were a few...
<czajkowski> but definately out numbered
<AlanBell> ging: czajkowski had rounded up some reinforcements
<AlanBell> looks like we may need to push back the train to later in the year http://www.watercressonline.co.uk/section.php?xSec=191
 * AlanBell adds note, Myrtti to organise kyykkÃ¤ event http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_skittles
<ging> you could organise a kurling event then UK can win it
<ging> oh it's spelt curling
<AlanBell> no, you were right http://www.kurling.com/
<AlanBell> kurling is curling but not neccessarily on ice
<AlanBell> just needs a room with a flat floor that might hold say 400 people for example
<caulkz> morning guys/gals
<jacobw> quick question about screen, why is the parameter to change the control character to X '-e^Xx' rather than '-e x' ?
<jacobw> good morning caulkz :)
<caulkz> im taking my trust Nikon d300 out of hibernation, any useful utils that compliment it nicely?
<caulkz> and, my webcam dont work on some website (no image), using firefox with logitech pro 9000?
<caulkz> works with cheese straight out of box!
<caulkz> anyone?
<caulkz> please with cherries lol
<caulkz> any1 awake?? lol :)
<jacobw> if it works with cheese, it'll probably work with other programs when the other programs are configured correctly
<caulkz> no feed from some websites
<caulkz> issues with flash?
<popey> i guess this is a v4l vs v4l2 issue
<jacobw> probably, flash is a massive source of issues which can't fixed by any one in the community
<caulkz> ok
<caulkz> flash is closed source and only adobe can fix?
<alexcockell> Pretty much..
<jacobw> yes, that is it exactly
<caulkz> is there a OSS alternative to flash?
<alexcockell> not one that you can use against iPlayer...
<jacobw> there's many, but they're all far behind Adobe's implementation of Flash
<caulkz> ok
<alexcockell> .. due to the Beeb locking it all down with Adobe's "check it's really Adobe Flash you're running" code.
<caulkz> damn
<caulkz> at least adobe supports linux..
<jacobw> caulkz: try starting firefox with this command and see if it works, `
<jacobw> ..
<caulkz> ?
<jacobw> LD_PRELOAD=/usr/lib/libv4l/v4l2convert.so firefox &
<jacobw> i read about that command at http://lab.marand.com/2010/04/making-webcam-work-in-flash-on-ubuntu/
<alexcockell> And nice that they've got experimental ION support now..
<alexcockell> Adobe-flashplugin, libvdpau1, textfile change...
<caulkz> bookmarked the url, cheers alex
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Andy Loughran] FPTP versus AV - http://zrmt.com/2011/03/19/fptp-versus-av/
<daubers> Morning
<MartijnVdS> howdy
 * daubers tries to hack together a linked list in C++
<Seeker`> daubers: "hack together"?
<daubers> Seeker`: Never done it before :)
<MartijnVdS> it's not that hard :)
<daubers> No, but just takes a little reading to understand
 * directhex downloads palm sdk
<brobostigon> goodafternoon everyone.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: afternoonings :P
<Seeker`> daubers: understand what?
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: linked lists
<Seeker`> linked list = data + pointer
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: good afternoon. :)
<Seeker`> simples
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: maybe two pointers, if you want double links
<daubers> Seeker`: Just moving around in them really. Just want to make sure I have it right before I make a mess of it :)
<Seeker`> MartijnVdS: well, yes, but thats more "advanced" :P
<MartijnVdS> daubers: list<your_type> L;
<MartijnVdS> \o/ STL
<directhex> i am gonna start writing a mobile app!
<brobostigon> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/720468
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 720468 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "[i915gm] GPU lockup (ESR: 0x00000001 IPEHR: 0x7f9c002d)" [High,Fix released]
<daubers> directhex: Anything exciting and will it work on my Pre Plus?
<MartijnVdS> directhex: for the platform that's even less used than Symbian ;)
<brobostigon> hopefully i will get no more gpulockup. :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: cool
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: it was releated to libdrm,
<Seeker`> MartijnVdS: daubers: a puzzle for you; how can you tell if your list has a loop in it?
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: Walk it. If you see yourself, it has a loop.
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: or do you mean any kind of loop?
<brobostigon> is*
<Seeker`> "if you see yourself"?
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: yes.. your starting point
<Seeker`> what about if you have a->b->c->d->b->c->d->b->c->d->b->c...
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: store the "next" pointers somewhere, bail out if you've already seen it
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: hash table-ish
<directhex> daubers, 2.1 firmware?
<daubers> directhex: Don't think so.... thats only for the Pre 2 onwards isn't it?
<directhex> daubers, nein, 2.1 update available for pre plus and higher on o2
<daubers> directhex: It is???
<Seeker`> what about if you have 1->2->3->...->5,000,000,000->5,000,000,001->5,000,000,002->5,000,000,000
<daubers> Seeker`: Store the 'id' of the list item?
<Seeker`> daubers: the "id"?
<MartijnVdS> pointer
<Seeker`> thats still 4 bytes
<directhex> you're writing your own linked list?
<daubers> Seeker`: e.g. item number
<Seeker`> so if you have a large data strugcture you are still storing 4*number of items bytes
<Seeker`> which for long lists is a large amount of memory
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: You could store one/a few pointer at a time and walk the list several times, I guess
<MartijnVdS> +s
<directhex> daubers, http://ws.palm.com/WebOsChecker/serialnumberinitial.htm
<Seeker`> how do you know when to stop walking the list if it has a loop in it? :P
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: Walk it twice _at the same time_, at different speeds
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: if you pass yourself, you have a loop :)
<Seeker`> MartijnVdS: correct :)
<daubers> directhex: When I put my serial in it offers webOSÂ® Doctorâ¢ for PalmÂ® Preâ¢ Plus for O2. Build O2.236.222, webOS 1.4.5
<MartijnVdS> that might even be relatively fast
<directhex> hmph
<Seeker`> MartijnVdS: depends on the size of the loop
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: sure but it won't be O(nÂ²) or something evil
<directhex> daubers, oh, you'll love this. o2 germany have it for the pre plus.
<daubers> Bah, blasted o2
<MartijnVdS> It won't be O(2) :P
<daubers> So I can get it, bit only in German?
<directhex> daubers, nothing in software update on the phone?
<Seeker`> MartijnVdS: Might be O(n) actually.
<daubers> directhex: only application updates
<directhex> daubers, how vexing. really just seems to be o2 germany
<directhex> daubers, if the pre3 is an o2 exclusive, i'm skipping it
<directhex> o2 are the worst network ever that isn't vodafone
<daubers> directhex: Yeah :(
<daubers> stuck till November anyway
<MartijnVdS> directhex: Hm, Vodafone-NL have the best network.. KPN-NL is good as well, but T-Mobile = NOOOOOOOoooooo....
<directhex> daubers, wife is on o2 until around then. i'm on orange until july
<daubers> directhex: I may actually just buy a phone instead of get one on contract at that poin
<directhex> daubers, yes, i'm considering the same... see also what i said about o2 exclusives
<directhex> daubers, right now, 3 have the best sim-only contract sim. giffgaff are better, if you trust them long-term (not sure i do)
<daubers> directhex: The only thing that would swing me is if they gave a free pr3 with a discounted tablet
<directhex> preÂ³
<popey> giffgaff is o2 though
<popey> so you're using their coverage
<directhex> popey, yeah, but coverage isn't the issue
<popey> ah
<directhex> i really don't care much about coverage maps, they're much of a muchness. i care about data rates and i care about lockdown
<directhex> three have the best data rates for a mainstream company (unlimited data sim), giffgaff have some kind of weirdo attitude to things
<directhex> lockdown... i'll only accept with a good contract. e.g. if three had the preÂ³
 * brobostigon shakes fist @ sky box, for resetting itself, while brobostigon is trying to watch the simpsons.
<directhex> brobostigon, what do you expect for an amstrad?
<brobostigon> directhex: this is a grundig.
<directhex> brb, restarting x
<directhex> ...
<directhex> daubers, developer device program.
<directhex> daubers, the preÂ³ will  be available at a discount for devs. and i'm writing an app
<directhex> wait, that's US only -_-
<daubers> directhex: bah
<daubers> got me partially excited briefly
<AlanBell> hi all
<brobostigon> afternoonings AlanBell
<AlanBell> I was thinking about putting dual boot Ubuntu on my brothers new laptop
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/Screenshot.png
<AlanBell> however HP have been evil with the partition table
<AlanBell> 4 primary partitions all used
<AlanBell> now what?
<AlanBell> can't create extended partitions without a primary to put them in
<MartijnVdS> GPT :)
<AlanBell> the windows setup routine is *horrible*
<directhex> AlanBell, not a lot you can do
<AlanBell> I went through it, but it was so evil I used the recovery thing to set it all back again so he can experience it too
<AlanBell> is Wubi a good way forward in this instance?
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: Backup sda3 somewhere else then move the partitions around?
<directhex> AlanBell, oh, that's a good idea
<AlanBell> sda2 seems to be the one to nuke and rejiggle
<TheOpenSourcerer> what is is sda1?
<TheOpenSourcerer> s/is/in
<AlanBell> not too sure
<directhex> many vendors have weirdo partitions, sadly
<directhex> another point for dell: they ship real windows media, on real discs, with latitude laptops. can just reinstall a pristine windows, for dual-booting
<directhex> lenovo have a crazy purposefully bad partiiton table (e.g. overlapping partitions) which only their tools can fix
<AlanBell> wow
<AlanBell> trouble is if I nuke stuff I am going to end up breaking windows beyond my ability to fix it
<AlanBell> and my brother isn't going to like that
<AlanBell> I think I will explore wubi a bit
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yes, but at least he will have Ubuntu :-)
<AlanBell> true :)
<alexcockell> Lenovo kit supplied by Linux Emporium is pretty hot though - THEY are taking the step of blowing away Windows... then again, I am a bit more of a user than you lot.
<directhex> if you burn backup media, the lenovo tools permit you to blat the recovery partition, then you can repartition fine
<directhex> although our contracts with lenovo the os doesn't matter
<directhex> since we don't send them the hard disks when stuff needs repairing
<AlanBell> problem solved, he has brought his old laptop to be forensically wiped
<AlanBell> so going to nuke it hard with dd then put Ubuntu on it
<MartijnVdS> Doesn't want his "photo collection" to fall into the wrong hands, eh?
<AlanBell> ;) funny, but he is actually a forensic accountant and wants it clean of customer stuff
<popey> AlanBell: what does the window recovery thing do if partitions already exist?
<popey> does it just blat the disk?
<penguin42> AlanBell: Not going to use dban or scrub?
<popey> I'd be inclined to dump /dev/sda3 and /dev/sda4
<popey> 16GB is enough for you to install ubuntu in for him to play
<popey> and can later resize sda2 down
<domjohnson> Anyone here take DiDA?
<domjohnson> (that is, the subject...)
<Seeker`> anyone have a xmltv config for freeview?
<kvarley> domjohnson: I did it last year
<domjohnson> God I hate it.
<domjohnson> lol
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Matthew Garrett] Archos tablets - http://mjg59.livejournal.com/134903.html
<brobostigon> no gpu lockup yet, :)
<AlanBell> popey: I am not sure what the windows recovery tool does or how upset it would be with a different partition table
<AlanBell> and I don't really want to nuke the recovery partitions, it doesn't come with any other installation media
<mgdm> AlanBell: in my experience as long as it stays in the same place and with the same partition number, it's fine
<brobostigon> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/720468/comments/10
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 720468 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "[i915gm] GPU lockup (ESR: 0x00000001 IPEHR: 0x7f9c002d)" [High,Fix released]
<brobostigon> :(
<brobostigon> any clever graphics people around?
<popey> AlanBell: doesnt it let you make recovery DVDs?
<AlanBell> I didn't see that option, and I don't have any blank DVDs here
<Azelphur> Anyone amazing at SQL feel like trying to reverse engineer this horrible query I'm trying to understand? XD
<Azelphur> It's evil...pure evil
<Azelphur> I also realized it's entirely pointless too, so never mind xD
<popey> heh
<alexcockell> Azelphur - would you reckon that query belongs on DailyWTF?
<Azelphur> alexcockell: no idea
<shauno> I don't get this at all.  some days MC will run for hours on end, others I'm lucky to get 90 seconds before it crashes.  and I'm finding absolutely no rhythm nor reason behind it :(
<directhex> which java are you using?
<shauno> the one apple push, appears to be no alternatives  (yes, it's completely offtopic.  I'm just frustrated because I'm literally getting 90 seconds at a time)
<jacobw> MC?
<shauno> oh .. minecraft
<jacobw> I see :)
<shauno> just figured there's enough addicts in here than someone may have some pointers :)
<shauno> experimenting with 32bit vs 64bit atm.  tried not using 3 mice, but seemed to make zero difference
<brobostigon> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzIeiyzRLCw&feature=player_embedded  interesting.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: "Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi, you're our only hope"
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: :)
<phonex01> hello gys
<phonex01> today i gave presentation about aircrack-ng it was really amazing
<popey> is it online?
<phonex01> no man
<phonex01> it is not allowed to recored !
<popey> :(
<popey> why?
<phonex01> university policy !
<MartijnVdS> popey: you know security people, very insecure about their security policies
<MartijnVdS> popey: also.. very insecure in general :)
<phonex01> hahahah
<MartijnVdS> (or should I say paranoid)
<jpds> MartijnVdS: Nothing's secure anyway at the end of the day.
<phonex01> next week we will be about " Software Reverse Engineering "
 * popey hacks the gibson
<popey> shame, i would like to have seen that
<MartijnVdS> jpds: Not having data = perfect security :)
<brobostigon> phonex01: can i suggest starting with wine, :)
<phonex01> oh nice
<phonex01> but i will start with them by the basics
<phonex01> they are not that Experience !
<phonex01> they dont even use linux !
<brobostigon> phonex01: reverse engineering the windows api, in order to emulate the windowsapi.
<phonex01> yes you are right
<brobostigon> phonex01: oh i see,ok.
<phonex01> normally everything done with the ollydebug tool
<brobostigon> phonex01: but i would suggest, staying within legal limits, like wine.
<phonex01> ya it is a good idea
<phonex01> by the way is there any software like File recovery pro for ubuntu  ?
<jpds> phonex01: photorec?
<brobostigon> phonex01: you dont need to be called on for teching people to break the law.
<phonex01> photorec ?
<MartijnVdS> photorec :)
<MartijnVdS> phonex01: it recovers deleted files from disks
<phonex01> im installing it right now
<MartijnVdS> phonex01: useful if you accidentally format your camera memory card, for example
<MartijnVdS> phonex01: or some other disk with pictures 8-)
<jpds> files out of dead disks too.
<phonex01> no i want to make some simple research about low-level file processing
<phonex01> which mean deals with data without there file system
<phonex01> the same as recovery tools do
<phonex01> actually when you delete a file you just delete the pointer or address of that file but physicly the file still there !
<jpds> phonex01: http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/PhotoRec_Data_Carving
<phonex01> thank you jpds
<brobostigon> !info photorec
<lubotu3> Package photorec does not exist in maverick
<brobostigon> !info photorec natty
<mgdm> brobostigon: it's in the testdisk package
<lubotu3> Package photorec does not exist in natty
<mgdm> !info testdisk
<lubotu3> testdisk (source: testdisk): Partition scanner and disk recovery tool. In component universe, is optional. Version 6.11-1 (maverick), package size 1510 kB, installed size 4672 kB
<brobostigon> mgdm: ah, thank you,
 * mgdm has used that to get people out of some sticky situations :)
<Myrtti> I wish the local lemsip would have decongestant in it :-( aspirin, vitamin c and caffeine is a rather useless mix
<brobostigon> :(
<Myrtti> especially useless when I want to sleep anyway and have even medication to help me with it
<phonex01> ok im using photorec right now it seems good
<Myrtti> Oh well. blackcurrant juice and aspirin it is then
<phonex01> oh yah guys i have strange problem about backtrack 4
<popey> there is a backtrack support channel
<phonex01> when i use back track 4 from live CD or flash everything is ok
<popey> ##backtrack-linux i think
<phonex01> but when i install it the mouse stop working after loading the dekstop
<Myrtti> "try ubuntu instead"
<phonex01> ok no problem with ubuntu
<phonex01> but im asking about the problem !
<phonex01> i need to know why ?
<phonex01> ubuntu is ok
<Myrtti> strangely enough, this is ubuntu channel
<phonex01> ok im not allowed to ask such question here
<phonex01> ok no problem im sorry any wya
<Myrtti> sure you are
<Myrtti> probably you're just not getting answers ;-)
<brobostigon> phonex01: but they in the backtrack channel will be specilist, :)
<phonex01> im in backtrack channel no one is responding !
<phonex01> they maybe sleeping !
<brobostigon> phonex01: i have had a gpu lockup problem. so have been sitting in #ubuntu-x all afternoon, i am being patient, because i know i will get an answer.
<popey> phonex01: the official #ubuntu support channel does indeed ban the asking of backtrack questions, and mint too i think
<Myrtti> mmmm cough medicine
<phonex01> ok i got the msg !
<popey> but here we are more relaxed, I just wondered if you knew about the other channel, that's all.
<phonex01> hi popey ok i said im sorry !
<popey> I am not having a go at you
<phonex01> oh photorec is really good
<popey> I am explaining the situation
<popey> no need to get ratty with me
<phonex01> no problem !
<phonex01> take it easy
<popey> *sigh*
 * popey wanders off
<jpds> I say !
<Azelphur> running a dynmap fullrender on my minecraft server, according to top java is using 115% CPU flat out
<Azelphur> defying the laws of physics \o/
<mgdm> That means it's using more than one CPU
<Azelphur> but minecraft is single threaded?
<mgdm> I suspect that the app itself is but that bits of the JVM might handle different things on different threads
<Azelphur> ah
<mgdm> or part of the GUI. or something. I don't know, I have no interest in Minecraft
<Azelphur> tis the server, so no gui
 * mgdm shrugs
<phonex01> guys i need a good learning easy way to write shells for ubuntu ?
<phonex01> any link ?
<dutchie> "shell" can mean a lot of things, what exactly do you mean?
<phonex01> i mean writing shells
<jpds> phonex01: http://tldp.org/LDP/Bash-Beginners-Guide/html/index.html
<phonex01> thnak you
<Myrtti> shell scripts probably...
<gord> we have a tend to call anything that contains anything else in software a shell, this is starting to backfire ;)
<gord> i suggest we now start calling everything a bucket
<ali1234> "we"?
<AlanBell> unity is a bucket for gnome, but not gnome-bucket
<AlanBell> works for me :)
<ali1234> if you put just a little bit more thought into it you can probably convince some people that it is a whole new UI paradigm and get a book deal out of it
<daubers> Once you've filled the gnome-bucket with widgets, it works more like bucketless gnome?
<ali1234> no, not widgets... you need to com eup with a new name for them
<daubers> spades?
<ali1234> like plasmoids
<AlanBell> pebbles
<Myrtti> warts
<daubers> crabs!
<ali1234> except plasmoids is already taken
<Myrtti> nailpolish
<daubers> lava-oids
 * AlanBell wonders what is going on in the minds of Myrtti and daubers 
<Myrtti> AlanBell: feet
<Myrtti> a la Gnome logo
<daubers> footprints?
<ali1234> that one is actually good
<ali1234> footprint would be a better name for "the desktop" (what kde calls an activity)
<ali1234> i believe os x calls it the dashboard?
<ali1234> and on windows it's just called "active desktop"
<daubers> so the bucket handles the footprint, which contains the assorted feet?
<ali1234> sure
<daubers> Anyone else confused yet, or just me?
<ali1234> it doesn't even matter if it makes sense
<ali1234> the more confusing it is, the more innovative it appears to be
<mgdm> Hence, Google Wave
<mgdm> and we saw how well that did
<ali1234> mgdm: the problem with googlewave is they actually innovated
<ali1234> the path to success is copy something that everyone is familiar with and then rename all the parts so people think it is something new
<shauno> wave was fascinating, but the client they put on the frontend wasn't :(
<mgdm> the tech seemed to be rather cool, but yeah, the UI was less-than-obvious
<mgdm> though I did do some useful things in it
<Myrtti> AWWWWW GOATS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQ6xGMSOu1E
<daubers> C++ question.... if I have a pointer set up that is being reassigned now and again, how can I assign a new object to that point with the correct arguments to initialise that object?
<phonex01> guys need help
<daubers> I'm trying to do foo->bar = new FooBar(x,y,z);
<phonex01> how can i change color on IRC ?
<daubers> phonex01: Depends on your client
<phonex01> i mean i saw some people on some rooms change the bg color and such things
<phonex01> ok im using XCHAT
<jacobw> :s
<ali1234> so my youtube video has been flagged: Entity: Music Publishing Rights Collecting Society Content Type: Musical Composition
<ali1234> even though the music is out of copyright
<ali1234> that is, the composition was done in the 1900s and it is an original recording
<shauno> heh, I like the name tho.  atleast they're not pretending to be artists
<ali1234> that's just a generic name for whatever local organization collects royalties on behalf of compaosers
<Azelphur> is there any free alternative to spotify that runs on Ubuntu?
<popey> Azelphur: bittorrent
<popey> lastfm?
<popey> grooveshark?
<Azelphur> well yea I use that but was after something more spotify-ish for a friend :p
<Azelphur> they said they don't like last.fm because you can't choose specific songs
<popey> why not spotify?
<Azelphur> grooveshark I'll take a look at
<Azelphur> popey: because it's not free for Linux, which is extremely lame and makes me want to slap them? :D
<popey> it works in wine
<popey> apparently
<popey> actually I have tried it in wine
<popey> on my joggler
<Azelphur> I see
<Azelphur> suppose I'll just wine spotify, irritating when there's a native client right there
<Azelphur> makes me want to send them an email.
<popey> they know
<popey> spoke to them about it ages ago
<shauno> ali1234: bummer.  for a moment I thought someone actually had the gall to name their company "copyright trolls"
<Azelphur> fun
<Azelphur> popey: what did they say?
<popey> i think they said it was something to do with not being able to guarantee the delivery of the adverts on the client
<popey> but that sounds more like what you'd say if you were implementing an open source client
<popey> mark (on the podcast) spoke to them about it
<popey> more recently than I
<popey> ask them in #spotify
<Azelphur> fun \o/
<ali1234> hmm
<jacobw> !info vim
<lubotu3> vim (source: vim): Vi IMproved - enhanced vi editor. In component main, is optional. Version 2:7.2.330-1ubuntu4 (maverick), package size 836 kB, installed size 1656 kB
 * brobostigon puts bbc2 on, for wonders.
<HazRPG> hi
<HazRPG> :)
<HazRPG> how's everyone doing?
<brobostigon> evening HazRPG :)
<MartijnVdS> sleepy :)
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/beard.jpg should I keep it or not?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: quiteill, headache, throat ache, back pain. how about you?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: also i added you to me new project on launchpad.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: evening :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: :( hope ya feel better soon squire
<HazRPG> brobostigon: I know the feeling though, woke up 3 times in front of the computer since last night... so I have a sore back and neck now
<HazRPG> brobostigon: ooo, new project?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: thank, me too.
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: and a keyboard full of drool? :P
<HazRPG> AlanBell: yes!
<brobostigon> HazRPG: https://launchpad.net/~hazrpg is that you?
<HazRPG> AlanBell: Personally I find it easier to keep trimming a beard, than it is to keep shaving every couple of days
<HazRPG> brobostigon: That would be correct :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: heh, no... thankfully :P
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i have added you to the new group then, https://launchpad.net/~hydraulic-hybrid , it is the old project, but gives me version control, which i needed.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: ah yeah, I recall you looking up various version control stuff and people recommending bzr to you :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: is also makes it much easier on me, to allow people to see the code.
<brobostigon> :)
<MartijnVdS> but.. that's scary
<MartijnVdS> having other people look at your code ;)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: very much, so, yes.
<MartijnVdS> you'll get used to it
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: at the moment it is a  total mess.
<MartijnVdS> we do code reviews at work.. at first everyone is scared :)
<brobostigon> :(
<HazRPG> heh yeah, sharing code around for the first time is always scary
<HazRPG> I remember setting up my SVN and sharing my code off to close friends by giving them access to it...
<MartijnVdS> hah, I used 3.5" disks for that :)
<MartijnVdS> </feelsold>
<brobostigon> HazRPG: thats why i am keeping it a relativlyclosedgroup. so i dont get silly stupid people, wrecking it.
<HazRPG> when you think your coding is pretty decent, and others go off and say there's a few issues with it... always makes you feel inadequate lol
<Myrtti> pwaah.
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: at some point they'll start saying it's good though
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: and you learn to anticipate their criticism (as well as your own -- reviewing goes both ways :))
<brobostigon> so any ideas, are welcome, :)
<MartijnVdS> which means overall code quality increases
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Yeah, but they were expecting it to be fully working when I'd only been spending like a few weeks on it lol
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Indeed :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: you can't fix unrealistic expectations (well, maybe by showing it earlier. Agile-ish approaches etc.)
<HazRPG> exactly
<brobostigon> HazRPG: so if you have any ideas, you can, s you are now a group member, i am keeping it this way, so i dont get arses messing with it, and or vandalising it.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: good stuff :)
 * MartijnVdS decides it's time for sleep
<HazRPG> brobostigon: is this pretty much the project I was helping you review a few years back?
<brobostigon> nos da MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> good luck with your project, brobostigon & HazRPG
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: aww you off :(?
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Night, sleep well.
<brobostigon> HazRPG: what i have there now, is the lastfew months, i havent put any of thatoldstuff up yet.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: thank you, :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Indeed, thanks :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: also i need to put up the C modules i am using, aswell.
<brobostigon> HazRPG: that means atthe moment, you need to get the modules manually.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: ah ok
<brobostigon> HazRPG: the modules are in an entirly different folder, to where the source is held, and i need to find a way, of doing that properly.
<Myrtti> damned cough
<HazRPG> Myrtti: got a cold?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: so you just bzr one lot, and have everything, rather than having to bzr seperate folders, and combine them.
<popey> brobostigon: tip: commit messages should have useful text in them :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: yeah, that does sound better - because then people don't have to worry about the dependencies, plus everyone will be working with the same code-set
<brobostigon> popey: yes, sorry, :)
<HazRPG> popey: heh, I was just about to bring him up on that :P
<brobostigon> HazRPG: yes, that is a thought,
<brobostigon> should compile* is maybe alittle weak.
<popey> it was all the ones before that actually :)
<brobostigon> thats also, yes, :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: that one's fine, because that at least tells people it should compile - problem is with the others
<popey> nvm
<popey> :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: they are content light, very true, i need tobe more discriptive.
<HazRPG> looks like you beat me to it :P
<HazRPG> brobostigon: trust me, its not just useful for others to understand what's going on - it'll help you too so you can see the way things have been going :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i agree, i will add some of the stuff in my paper notes, in the future,
<HazRPG> brobostigon: coolies :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: just out of interesting, what's the graphie stuff for?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: :), if you see any mistakes or improvements, pleaseadd them,  :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: will do :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: thats to repreent the output data, from the arduino over the usb.
<brobostigon> represent*
<brobostigon> is a nice graph.
<HazRPG> ah cool :)
<brobostigon> in a*
<brobostigon> :)
<popey> exobuzz: hey!
<HazRPG> I am tempted to get an arduino myself tbh, so I might be more useful over time :)
<exobuzz> popey, hi
<exobuzz> excellent podcast (as usual) :
<exobuzz> :) even
<popey> yay, thanks
<brobostigon> HazRPG: that would be interesting yes, you can do alot, and interesting things, as i am trying, and all it is, is simple C, so easy to program, atleastshould be, anyways, :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: I'm not sure if it'll fit my needs, but it will definitely help get me back into the swing of electronics though :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: ah, i see. yes it will definatly  do that, :)
<HazRPG> popey: I must say, I do love the way Calibre grabs news sites! I was reading away through some articles before I went to bed
<popey> its rather cool isnt it
<popey> reminds me
 * popey updates his calibre
<mgdm> popey: what reader do you use?
<ali1234> every commit should compile
<ali1234> just saying
<HazRPG> popey: Hmm, do you grab Calibre straight from the site? Because I've noticed the repo only has up to 0.7.18
<HazRPG> ali1234: you mean without errors?
<popey> HazRPG: on osx i do
<mgdm> HazRPG: that's the generally accepted definition of "compile", yes
<mgdm> :)
<czajkowski> danfish: you missed an epic day!
<HazRPG> mgdm: heh
 * HazRPG pokes brobostigon to see ali's comment
<ali1234> yes without errors
<brobostigon> HazRPG: where?
<HazRPG> brobostigon: (2011-03-20 9:34:42 PM) ali1234: every commit should compile
<ali1234> a commit is a snapshot in history
<ali1234> ask yourself why would you ever want to go back to a snapshot that doesn't compile?
<HazRPG> ali1234: heh, when you put it like that makes me think "why would you ever take a photo, without the people in it yet"
<popey> a bad analogy is like a leaky screwdriver
<popey> you would never roll back to a photo
<popey> unless you were in a film like Back to the future
 * mgdm takes lots of photos and very few of them ever have people in
<brobostigon> ali1234: maybe, yes, but sometimes even i am not perfect.
 * brobostigon making croaking noises,
<HazRPG> heh, I've only *just* seen the WikiReader
<popey> i do like that device, if only you could use a kindle sized device offline for that
<HazRPG> popey: I'm sure if you grabbed a dump of wiki you could
<HazRPG> is it just me, but having a dump of the full wiki for offline use, is like having a hitchikers guide to the galaxy (minus the fact that its not the whole galaxy)
<ging> popey: you know about the free internet on the 3g kindle right?
<popey> i do
<HazRPG> ging: only if you dished out extra for that version :P
<popey> he said "3g kindle"
<ging> HazRPG: I did
<ali1234> HazRPG: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Database_download
<ali1234> 27GB uncompressed just for the newest revisions
<ging> just seems wrong to download wikipedia
<popey> hmm, that would fit on my ipad :)
<popey> the wikireader is a cut-down version, no images
<ging> it's like keeping a monkey in a tiny cage
<ali1234> popey: 27GB does not include images
<popey> thats fine
<popey> its the text i'd mostly want
<popey> the wikireader is 4GB iirc?
<popey> micro sdhc
<HazRPG> popey: 8GB according to this source
<ali1234> sure, if you compress it and remove all the buffy the vampire slayer articles it would be much smaller
<HazRPG> popey: the download they provide is 4GB
<ali1234> "all revisions, all pages" uncompresses to 5 terabytes
<ging> i dont see how it is in anyway better than using a kindle in a country where you get free internet on it
<ali1234> it isn't
<Seeker`> ging: just because you can?
<popey> i was thinking more for the kids
<ali1234> wikireader is for people who are worried about looking up the major characters of buffy in the event of a large scale disaster taking out the 3G network
<popey> heh
<AlanBell> ging: in preparation for when society breaks down and anarchy rules, the internet is gone, and you want to look up the article for rubbing sticks together to make fire
<ging> ali1234: i never thought about that
<Seeker`> ali1234: you seem to be obsessed with buffy
<ali1234> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Making_fire
<AlanBell> and then the article for making a steam powered kindle charger
<ali1234> better print that just in case
<Azelphur> is there any place to look at the major/blocker bugs for 11.04?
<mgdm> To be fair it's not just Buffy. There's a fair amount of Pokemon in there too
<popey> and doctor who
<mgdm> Ah, but that's worthwhile!
<mgdm> ;)
<popey> wikireader is only 60 quid
<popey> blimey
<ging> they sell them in UK?
<popey> no
<mgdm> is it hackable in any way?
<czajkowski> boo no moodoo :(
<popey> https://github.com/wikireader
<HazRPG> WikiReader is open source as far as I'm aware
<mgdm> cool
<HazRPG> and popey just confirmed that :P
<ging> what happened to openmoko?
<popey> they made a sucky phone
<ali1234> Azelphur: try this: http://bit.ly/hyoVYE
<Azelphur> ali1234: ty :D
<popey> haha, is the nintendo 3ds and the ipad 2 releasing on the same day!?
<ging> i remember wanting 1 when they came out because everyone said they were awsome
<popey> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2011/jan/19/nintendo-3ds-uk-launch-details
<popey> they were never awesome ging
<ging> doesnt mean people didnt say they were
<ali1234> i don't see a problem, i mean it's not like there's any overlap... i mean one is a kids toy and the other is a handheld gaming device...
<popey> :)
<HazRPG> true... plus its not like the queues are going to be for the same stores, I doubt GAME or GameStation will be selling iPad 2
<popey> uhm
<HazRPG> although would be interesting to see stores like Tesco releasing them both :P
 * brobostigon makes a pot of coffee for the communal table.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: \o/
 * daubers still wants a kindle :(
<ali1234> you're not going to see huge queues for ipad 2 and nds anyway
<ali1234> not harry potter type queues
<popey> yeah, not in the UK
 * brobostigon kinda wants a n900 with android, however,
<ali1234> i'm sure the media will manage to drum up a "huge queue" somewhere
<daubers> or apple will pay for one
<HazRPG> ali1234: I would like to say your right, but I use to work at GAME during the time the PS3 Slim/DSi/etc
<ali1234> probably by advertising in advance that the bbc will be coming down to report on the "huge queue" so if you want to get your face on tv, be sure to turn up!
<HazRPG> it took 3-4 hours to get rid of the queue that had parked themselves
<HazRPG> daubers: I must say, I just got a kindle the other day... and I'm enjoying it, so highly recommended :)
<popey> surely the ps3 market is much larger than the ipad one?
<ali1234> i would expect so
<ali1234> and the 3ds market too
<HazRPG> daubers: I got mine in tesco's, so you don't have to link it up with amazon
<HazRPG> popey: ah I thought ali was referring to the 3DS
<ali1234> i don't expect huge queues for the 3ds
<daubers> HazRPG: I know :( But moneys a bit of an issue at the moment... silly house buying messyness
<ali1234> but they'll be bigger than ipad queues
<mgdm> There was a guy buying a Kindle at LHR T5 the other week when Iw as there
<mgdm> they were trying to sell him a massively overpriced cover for it
<mgdm> I held up the jiffy bag mine's in, pulled the Kindle out a little bit, winked and wandered off
<mgdm> They didn't sell him one ;)
<daubers> Might see if my boss can get one for me from 'merkia when he goes over there. Play the exchange rate a little
<HazRPG> mgdm: heh yeah I noticed on amazon, they have a case that costs Â£50 just because its leather and has an LED light :/
<brobostigon> HazRPG: thats half the cost, amazing.
<popey> haha, just realised my kindle fits in this here jiffy bag!
<HazRPG> mgdm: haha winner :P
<mgdm> HazRPG: aye - boggling
<mgdm> popey: yay! I have about 3 that are exactly the correct size
<popey> the best part is that these jiffy bags were "free2
<popey> "free"
<HazRPG> brobostigon: it is!
<brobostigon> HazRPG: isnt the kindle justover Â£100 ?
<HazRPG> brobostigon: Â£110 for wifi edition, Â£152 for wifi+3g
<HazRPG> brobostigon: I bought a case for Â£3 off ebay :P
<Daviey> popey, There is no such thing as a free lun^D jiffy bag!
<popey> well, no
<popey> these came in a box, and contained 2TB hard disks :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: Â£50 for that cover is roughly half, that cost. Â£3yes, i made a cover for mmy n800, our of somespare felt, cost, nothing.
<Daviey> popey, heh, 2TB.. that is just greedy.
<popey> thats backups for you :)
<zleap> hi Daviey i have added  a link to the podcast on my website
<zleap> i mean there is a link to the ubuntu podcast on my website
<HazRPG> brobostigon: I would make one, if I had something to make one with :P
<Daviey> zleap, Oooo.. that is good.  Sadly, i'm no longer a regular presenter. :(
<zleap> ok
<brobostigon> HazRPG: however it shows, how muchpeople get ripped off, as you said.
<zleap> well thats ok, its on there, so hopefully anyone going on my site to download a club newsletter (rugby club) will see the banner
<HazRPG> brobostigon: in egypt, they have problems with sand and dust getting everywhere in the house... plus people eat with their hands usually, communally as a family... so what my family does is cover remotes for TV's etc in cling foil to stop them getting ruined :P
<brobostigon> HazRPG: ah, i see, interesting idea.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: I always thought that was normal! Until I moved back to the UK for college/uni
<brobostigon> HazRPG: ah, ys, you will notice clearly.
 * AlanBell struggles with Launchpad and GPG
<HazRPG> AlanBell: what's up?
<AlanBell> Launchpad could not import your OpenPGP key
<AlanBell> http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x4D8800C856EBDC35 there it is
<AlanBell> http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=0x4D8800C856EBDC35
<brobostigon> HazRPG: my htc dream would make things difficult, to protect, with the fold out keyboard.
 * hamitron pokes Azelphur
 * popey pokes hamitron 
 * Azelphur pokes hamitron and popey
<hamitron> you find a price for the psu?
<HazRPG> AlanBell: I'm confused... that looks like its there :S
<Azelphur> hamitron: the one you wanna buy off me?
<hamitron> yeh
<Azelphur> my friend just posted me a PSU for Â£11 if that's what you mean
<hamitron> Â£11 delivery?
<AlanBell> HazRPG: it is there in the keyserver, but launchpad won't let me import it to my account so I can do "quickly share"
<Azelphur> yea
<hamitron> :-o
<hamitron> not worth the hassle is it :/
<Azelphur> *shrug* still cheaper
<HazRPG> AlanBell: ...oh
<hamitron> Â£10 + 11 > Â£20
<Azelphur> so I'll sell you it for Â£5 tada :P
<Azelphur> lol
<hamitron> imo, you should just keep it as a spare
<hamitron> or some arduino project
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> my 250W psu seems to be holding up atm
<Azelphur> hamitron: I don't have any machines that'd take it haha
<hamitron> no, but use it for general psu for arduino
<hamitron> :)
<Azelphur> xD
<hamitron> is Â£11 royal mail?
<Azelphur> I think so yea
<Azelphur> first class too
<ali1234> you shouldn't use PC powersupply as a bench PSU
<ali1234> they are rather unstable when not laoded correctly
<popey> when i worked at a college, the students would play tricks on us using the bench PSUs
<popey> they'd put an electrolytic cap between two contacts, hit the stop button on the room then turn the psu on
<popey> we'd walk in. look around, unlock the stop button and BOOOM! paper everywhere
<popey> fun
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> yeah the kids in my school used to do stuff like that
<ali1234> except they would also turn on all the gas taps
<hamitron> ali1234: I use mine with old motherboards
<Laney> Glibc and others may be using the kernel headers that can be generated from a kernel source tree by doing a "make headers_install". That Makefile target was added to help library developers and distributions create the header files that are required to use the kernel ABI. It is not a requirement, as there are other ways to generate (or create) the required headers, and various libraries have done it differently along the way. The ...
<Laney> ... Android developers intend to eventually use the headers that can be created from the kernel tree, but there are currently some technical barriers to doing so. The key piece to understand is that the information required to use the kernel ABI are contained in one and only one place: the kernel header files.
<Laney> NO
<popey> No?
<Laney> I /really/ wish I could turn off triple click paste
<HazRPG> AlanBell: are you trying to import it using the https://launchpad.net/~AlanBell/+editpgpkeys ?
<daubers> Minecraft won't let me login :(
<Laney> one of these days I am going to accidently paste something terrible
<HazRPG> or is there another way that I haven't heard of before?
 * webpigeon just read <hamitron> Â£10 + 11 > Â£20 and thought type error, I need more sleep or less code x.x
<ali1234> i heard about that android stuff
<ali1234> apparently if you #include a kernel header in your code, your code has to be GPL
<AlanBell> HazRPG: yes, that is what I am trying to do
<Laney> according to some nutters, but not Linus or the license of the kernel
<hamitron> who is webpigeon
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> well funny you should say that because linus himself is the source of that one
<webpigeon> hamitron: I ask myself that a lot :P
<Laney> you should read the LWN article
<brobostigon> hamitron: webpigeon ia friend of mine.
<ali1234> i did, in the comments it links to a mailing list post by linus where he says exactly this. in capital letters no less
<popey> http://lwn.net/Articles/434318/ that one Laney ?
<brobostigon> hamitron: he also manages unity-coders,
<hamitron> brobostigon: just wondered if he was an alt name for someone :)
<HazRPG> AlanBell: still no joy? I'll make a new key and see if I can give it a go
<Laney> popey: yeah
<webpigeon> hamitron: na, I just haven't been arround in here much for the last while :P
<hamitron> k :)
<ali1234> http://lkml.org/lkml/2003/12/5/13
<AlanBell> HazRPG: still nothing
<ali1234> here is the quote: "BUT YOU CAN NOT USE THE KERNEL HEADER FILES TO CREATE NON-GPL'D BINARIES. "
<AlanBell> I will ask in #launchpad tomorrow if it still doesn't work
 * Laney sighs
<Laney> please read the article, it addresses exactly that
<ali1234> oh it does does it? was it written by linus?
<Laney> not going to be trolled
<Laney> EOD
<hamitron> one "problem" with the GPL I suppose
<hamitron> :/
<webpigeon> ali1234: caps much :P
<ali1234> webpigeon: linus caps, not mine
<webpigeon> I know
<ali1234> interesting to see how someone manages to make that quote mean the opposite of what it says, but will have to wait until 31st of march to find out
<webpigeon> "You can use it to control a nuclear submarine, and that's totally outside the scope of the license" ^.^
<brobostigon> lol
<ali1234> i don't agree that linus is correct btw
<ali1234> but it's pretty clear what he is saying
<webpigeon> You can't distribute GPL'd code (or use gpl'd code in your projects) if you distrubute the binaries and not the source.
<ali1234> and of course what i meant to say was "your code has to be GPL if you want to distribute the binary"
<webpigeon> but that's a whole heated flamey topic
<hamitron> gets ya thinking though ;)
<shauno> not entirely sure what's being discussed myself.  all I've got so far is "please read the article" -> paywall
<ali1234> in a nutshell: "can you #include a linux kernel header file in a program which you then later distribute without source?"
<ali1234> linus says you can't. in all caps, and at great length.
<shauno> right.  but the odd thing is it doesn't actually matter what linus says
<brobostigon> nos da everyone, sleep well.
<webpigeon> night brobostigon o
<ali1234> yeah i know :)
<webpigeon> ignore the o
<ali1234> and it was 8 years ago too
<brobostigon> night webpigeon :)
<hamitron> I'd guess Linus is right tbh
<ali1234> but if he ever came out and said "actually guys i was wrong" i'm sure someone would have found it by now
<Laney> the thread is about kernel modules and not user-space
<hamitron> else there wouldn't be a need for the LGPL?
<Laney> that is what 'binaries' refers to
<ali1234> Laney: why does it matter?
<webpigeon> way the libraries are linked?
<ali1234> kernel modules might be forced to be GPL for some other reason
<Laney> it matters because that is what the exemption in the license says
<Laney> see this post too http://lkml.org/lkml/2003/12/5/162
<Laney> really EOD now: watching ER
<HazRPG> AlanBell: Hmm, I've managed to take mine off and put it back up again... wonder why its not working on your end
 * popey wonders if anyone can replicate bug 739024
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 739024 in compiz (Ubuntu) "Window drop shadow overwrites panel drop shadow" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/739024
<HazRPG> hmm, apparently I'm doing karaoke tonight...
<HazRPG> to the pub!
<ali1234> popey: screenshot?
<popey> on the bug
<ali1234> oh there is one never mind
<popey> :)
<ali1234> nope, doesn't happen here
<popey> happens on two machines here
<popey> classic, non-unity
<ali1234> oh, i'm on maverick
<HazRPG> popey: hmm, that's an interesting one
<HazRPG> does do that here, I'm on maverick too
<HazRPG> doens't*
<ali1234> hmm 'sudo update-manager -d' isn't offering me natty?
<dutchie> try with -c too?
<dutchie> for check
<popey> i doubt it would do it on maverick
<ali1234> er... why?
<popey> because natty introduces lots of new compiz oddness
<ali1234> oh, i thought you meant -d
<popey> oh, sorry
<popey> two convos
<ali1234> oh, i think it was because no wireless connection...
<ali1234> yup
<RedHillian> t
#ubuntu-uk 2012-03-12
<gbyers_> n #twitlive3
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Web Design Help Needed - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/03/12/web-design-help-needed/
<GirlyGirl> Hi, how is the performance of Unity on beta 1 before I install ubuntu-desktop to give it a try? On 11.10 the UI was to laggy to use. Kde works fine with all desktop effects on my system however both on 11.10 and 12.04. (EeePC 1005ha)
<MartijnVdS> GirlyGirl: Depends on your hardware a bit, but I have no problems on Intel video
<GirlyGirl> MartijnVdS: Which Intel GPU do you have?
<MartijnVdS> uhh
<MartijnVdS> pre-SandyBridge i3 and i5
<MartijnVdS> so IronLake I think?
<MartijnVdS> [    94.821] (II) intel(0): Integrated Graphics Chipset: Intel(R) Clarkdale
<GirlyGirl> Mine is a lot less powerful ... Gma 950 Intel Atom, however I expect it to work as it works extremely well on KDE doing effects that unity isn't even capable of ... also theoretically it has the features to run unity. But for some reason all gtk3 stuff lags like the UI of software center (even when run under kDE). Unity itself is fast
 * Azelphur hugs his GTX 570 and OC'd i7 950
<MartijnVdS> GirlyGirl: 950 isn't too bad, I'd go for it :)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: I still can't stand nvidia :)
<Azelphur> Also, I've got an interesting challenge
<Azelphur> there's this guy who does awesome music, and he was doing a live stream on ustream earlier, I managed to get into the autorecord on ustream before he set it to private...so I can play it as long as I don't close the tab
<Azelphur> any way I can rip it?
<GirlyGirl> MartijnVdS: Not that I really care as KDE is my main DE, I just want to give Ubuntu 12.04 a test run
<MartijnVdS> GirlyGirl: you can always boot it from an USB stick
<Azelphur> I might just point gtk-recordmydesktop at it XD
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: rtmpsuck might help
 * Azelphur googles it
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: it's a proxy for Flash's streaming protocol that saves the output to disk
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: it's in the rtmpdump package
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: yea, the interesting thing is I can only do it if i can do it without refreshing the page
<Azelphur> if I refresh the page, I'm locked out.
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: hmmm
<MartijnVdS> you could run wireshark and save ALL network traffic to disk
<MartijnVdS> then sort it out afterwards
<GirlyGirl> Azelphur: Use gtk-recordmydesktop and later rip from that
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: haha, that'd be a bit difficult no doubt
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: I have no idea if there's crypto involved, but if there isn't it should be as easy as stripping the IP headers and concatenating
<MartijnVdS> maybe removing dups
<MartijnVdS> depends on how bad you want it ;)
<Azelphur> *shrug*
<Azelphur> I wants it, and I shall work until I get it :P
<GirlyGirl> Azelphur: Send a cable from headphone, to mic or line in and use a recording app
<Azelphur> yea, gtk-recordmydesktop can be my fallback
<Azelphur> nah, rtmpsuck doesn't seem to see it
<Azelphur> and it's not a flash flv stored in the cache like youtube either
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: for rtmpsuck to work it needs to see the start of the request, and you have to use iptables to route all traffic through it
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: see /usr/share/doc/rtmpdump
<Azelphur> yea I did
<Azelphur> I found a post on askubuntu.com that says it doesn't wok
<MartijnVdS> At all? Because I got it to work a few weeks ago
<Azelphur> with ustream?
<MartijnVdS> no
<MartijnVdS> with npr :)
<Azelphur> apparently it's a ustream specific issue
<MartijnVdS> on purpose, no doubt
<Azelphur> Is there anything better than gtk-recordmydesktop? It's almost impossible to select a region with it
<Azelphur> for some reason it feels the need to project your screen in a tiny postage stamp sized box, which doesn't allow you to accurately draw a box around something at all :(
<GirlyGirl> Azelphur: you need audio only?
<Azelphur> video would be cool too, but yea I only really care about the audio
<MartijnVdS> then you can use pulseaudio magics
<GirlyGirl> A line in cable would make things easier
<MartijnVdS> http://www.funwithelectronics.com/?id=95
<Azelphur> fun :P
<MartijnVdS> GirlyGirl: not necessary, just pacat :)
<Azelphur> still interested in something that lets you select regions better than gtk-recordmydesktop, it's irritating :P
<GirlyGirl> Azelphur: there is a similar kde utility that works fine forgot the name though
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: I found out that the command line recordmydesktop has accurate width and height params, so now I just need to make it capture audio
<GirlyGirl> I can imagine the look on your face if the browser crashes or something
<Azelphur> I would rage.
<Azelphur> D:
<Azelphur> missed live performance...must see it
<Azelphur> well, seen it already now I just want to keep it
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: and that pulseaudio page doesn't seem to be working for me :'(
<Azelphur> aha, mission success I managed to make gtk-recordmydesktop capture
<popey> Azelphur: kazam
<Azelphur> wassat?
<popey> "better than recordmydesktop"
<Azelphur> ah cool
<Azelphur> will have a nose at it :)
<popey> it can record the audio from the sound card which is handy
<MartijnVdS> audio in or audio out?
<popey> out
<MartijnVdS> ooh
<Azelphur> just made gtk-recordmydesktop do that with some pulse magic
<popey> yeah, no magic required with kazam
<popey> just start it and press record âº
<Azelphur> nice
<popey> also, recordmydesktop is dead basically, no active development at all
<imexil> morning
<imexil> This time I'm struggling to find the option to disable the login drum in 12.04. Any hint where to look?
<AlanBell> kazam does need a bit more resources I think, best to do screencasts on somewhat deced hardware
 * AlanBell is on a boat
<christel> i say! where are you sailing off to ?
<christel> (and good morning lovelies)
<dwatkins> good morning all!
<AlanBell> down the thames to Canary wharf
<AlanBell> it is a lovel day for it
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: ft. T-Pain? :)
<christel> ooh nice
<brobostigon> good morning everyone
<MartijnVdS> \o
<brobostigon> o/
<diplo> Morning all
<christel> morning :)
<_serial_> morning
<brobostigon> morning diplo , christel and _serial_
<_serial_> good morning brobostigon :)
<brobostigon> :)
<mungojerry> i tried kazam yesterday, works great.
<czajkowski> morning
<czajkowski> gah this new playing stuff once it has downloaded is most annoying
<popey> czajkowski: eh?
<richardperkins> morning all
<czajkowski> popey: downloading stuff and when it arrives it's automatically starting to play using movie player which isn't my default application VLC is
<czajkowski> popey: 3 .avi files have just landed and all 3 open and start to play
<popey> czajkowski: how did the avi files download? click links in browser?
<czajkowski> popey: aye right click, save to place.
<popey> i havent had it open automatically
<czajkowski> odd only happening since friday
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<richardperkins> can anyone help me out with a network issue
<richardperkins> whenever i am connected to my net gear either wireless or wired and someone else connects the router crashes out?
<mungojerry> anyone else tell me how much electricity and gas they use in a year?
<mungojerry> terraced house, 1 wife+kid
<nothingspecial> only 1 wife?
<mungojerry> estimated next year, 347 elec, Â£373 gas
<mungojerry> nothingspecial, yeah, not enough space
<nothingspecial> :p
<gord> richardperkins, sounds like a broken router to me ;) maybe try and figure out if you can reset the router to factory defaults if its a new issue
<directhex> mungojerry, hang on
<directhex> let me find my paperwork
<mungojerry> :D
<gordonjcp> mungojerry: sounds okay
<gordonjcp> 373 for gas is cheap
<mungojerry> over winter i've had it on permanantely :S
<directhex> looks like about 1100 a year combined
<io> for a whole year?
<gordonjcp> in my old house we were nearly 800 quid for gas
<mungojerry> last 12 months: 2,246 kWh elec 7,972 kWh gas
<io> mine's Â£450/quarter for both
<io> :<
<mungojerry> io what's yr setup?
<mungojerry> is there a roof on the house?
<io> 1
<directhex> 7973 kWh of gas from november->may, 2340 kWh of electricity for the same period
<Donald> :)
<mungojerry> directhex, wow pretty close
<mungojerry> my wife is at home all day
<io> I have the heating on constantly though, 'tis cold at the moment :<
<directhex> 2 bed coachhouse
<mungojerry> i suspect would be cheap if nobody was indoors
<directhex> gas heating & hob
<mungojerry> gas hob, too
<mungojerry> i plot graphs of the temp of my house
<directhex> nerd
<diplo> mungojerry, About same as mine Â£350 mark for each
<mungojerry> good to hear
<diplo> me and 2 young sons
<diplo> No wife, so a large saving there
<diplo> :)
<gordonjcp> purely theoretically, is there anyone in the London-ish corner of the country who could pick up three synthesizers for me and hold onto them for a week or two?
<JamesTait> mungojerry: 2-bed semi, wife + 2 kids. Estimated ~10,000kWh gas, ~4,500kWh electricity, based on current usage from June - present.
<mungojerry> JamesTait, wow,..
<mungojerry> that's a fair chunk of your income
<gord> i use a lot of electricity here, but its mostly just nerd tax
<mungojerry> i feel that after food, fuel (gas/elec/petrol), mortgage and council tax, there's nothing left
<mungojerry> i have a nerd budget entitlement each month that i haven't touched in ages
<JamesTait> mungojerry: Comes to about Â£1,000 p/a, which is a lot less than the mortgage and food. :)
<JamesTait> Come to think of it, it's probably less than I spend on the car I hardly use as well.
<mungojerry> my dad used to spend his whole time turning the heating down, but it was cheap in those days
<diplo> My mortage a month is more than my gas/elec is per year :(
<DJones> Oh bugger, my wife has just been given a works laptop.....
<christel> mungojerry: i'd have to log in to check the kwh figures, but we spend around 700/quarter on gas+electricity
<mungojerry> christel, which country? UK?
<christel> (that said, i work from home so we probably have heating on much more than we would if i left the house for 8-10 hours a day)
<mungojerry> i think my mortgage is only around 160pm
<diplo> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111
<christel> semi-detached property, 2 adults + 1 child
<diplo> :(
<diplo> My mortage is just shy of Â£900
<mungojerry> christel, save money on rail travel ,
<christel> mungojerry: yeah UK (england)
<mungojerry> apparently on the continent, gas prices are enormous
<mungojerry> e.g. denmark
<daubers> Morning
<popey> mungojerry: do you live in a cardboard box?
<popey> (morning)
<mungojerry> popey, why's that?
<popey> 10:09:54 < mungojerry> i think my mortgage is only around 160pm
<popey> mine is ~1200
<daubers> popey: Old people who bought houses when they where sensibly priced
<mungojerry> my first house was 65k
<nothingspecial> :D
<daubers> ^ point proven
<mungojerry> second house was 325, but th efirst house had gone to 165 in the meantime
 * daubers is just getting his first house at nearly Â£190k
 * popey wonders how old mungojerry is
<mungojerry> i had a high deposit on first house, so was able to aggressively save while i was single, to put large deposit on 2nd house
 * popey is still living in his first house
<mungojerry> =popey-1
<popey> ahhh
<popey> is that a standard unit of measurement now?
<diplo> 4th house here
<mungojerry> will try not to move house for another 15years
<diplo> And I think I'm popey -3 or 4
<diplo> :P
<popey> we've been here 10, would like to stay another 10 âº
<popey> or 15
<mungojerry> it involves throwing many thousands at people you dislike
<popey> be nice to pay off the house completely
<mungojerry> i look popey -10 though
<mungojerry> nothing to do with popey
<mungojerry> just the effect of drinking oil of ulay
<daubers> average age of ubuntu-uk = popey Â±10 ?
<mungojerry> i have a public sector wage now and cannot afford to do anything ever again
<diplo> I will stay in mine another year or two, until I find someone to settle down with, don't want to move twice!!
<mungojerry> i'm told that women like a man with a house and car
 * TheOpenSourcerer has a very low mortgage now ~Â£100 p/m
<directhex> ._.
<diplo> Please!! stop it!
<diplo> :(
<directhex> i'm paying Â£1050 a month on my mortgage
 * MartijnVdS pays ~â¬600/month
<diplo> Mine would have been if the ex hadn't wanted to move
<diplo> directhex, married ? / joint mortage ?
<directhex> diplo, married
 * daubers will be paying ~Â£800 p/m
<TheOpenSourcerer> We paid off most of our mortgage in 2001. Thanks to redundancies & stock options :-)
<diplo> I really need to either think about getting a lodger or seriously trying to find a new woman
<diplo> nice TheOpenSourcerer , I tried that with my last job but no go :/
<daubers> diplo: lodgers are less expensive to keep
<nothingspecial> +1 for paying off mortgage
<diplo> Yeah but I also have 2 boys with me half a week each week
<mungojerry> i opened a PEP (remember those?) in 1998..with Â£2800. guess how much it's worth now? 2900.
<diplo> heh
<mungojerry> should have bought apple shares
<mungojerry> or del monte at least
<TheOpenSourcerer> diplo: It was quite funny actually. My wife and I were both made redundant on the same day from different companies. And we were both really happy about it.
<christel> i am not sure how old i am in popey.
<christel> (i cant remember how old popey is!)
<mungojerry> popey is elvis-43?
<MartijnVdS> â
<MartijnVdS> great alt+f2 is broken
<mungojerry> elvis-37
<mungojerry> something like that.
<diplo> I asked for redundancy TheOpenSourcerer but they wouldn't give it to me, so had to hand my notice in which I was happy about
<diplo> Just not happy with this job now :(
<s-fox> o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> I worked for a US start-up which got bought by Ericsson. Had to stay 2 years to get the money. Wifey worked for a startup that got bought by Freeserve.
<mungojerry> freeserve lol
<mungojerry> those were the days
<TheOpenSourcerer> yeah.
<mungojerry> reminds me of the facebook IPO
<mungojerry> ever user of freeserve was worth Â£2000
<mungojerry> yeah right
<TheOpenSourcerer> They signed the deal about three weeks before the dotcom bubble popped <phew>
<mungojerry> are men allowed to the flossie conference? looks good http://www.flossie.org/?page_id=125
<popey> oimon: dont think so
<popey> christel: 40 in 23 days
 * oimon revises his popey age.
<christel> wow
<christel> really?
 * TheOpenSourcerer was 47 last week.
<oimon> popey, thought not. shame as it's in my building
<oimon> lol @ https://twitter.com/#!/NickMotown/status/179135101119115265/photo/1
<bigcalm> RAT tickets arrived \o/
<christel> woop!
<AlanBell> danfish_: got the ducks yes?
 * daubers ponders acquiring some music
 * DJones donates Agadoo to daubers
<sagaci> bigcalm: would've been better if they were RATM tickets ;)
<daubers> DJones: I already have agadoo
<bigcalm> RATM?
<sagaci> rage
<sagaci> ... rage against the machine
<daubers> who're they then
<daubers> ?
<BigRedS> they got the christmas number 1 the other year and don't seem to have done anything since
<sagaci> yeah
<sagaci> toured but no new material
<sagaci> an hour and 15 minute concert felt like 3 hours
<andylockran> howdy
<sagaci> hi andylockran
 * daubers waits for U1 to get new music
<andylockran> howdy
<andylockran> sagaci: what's new?
<gord> hrm, what would be a better use of my time this morning, working on work, or making a youtube playlist of really good zx spectrum music
<bigcalm> The latter
<bigcalm> _always_ the latter
<MartijnVdS> haha. work.
<oimon> gord, will the playlist help you work faster?
<oimon> s/faster/smarter/
<gord> given that i'd have to rock out like grandpa dizzy in kwik snax, i'd say no
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<czajkowski> davmor2: ello
<davmor2> popey: you made the awesome, awesomer, /me sits back and watches czajkowski head explode
<czajkowski> meh
<czajkowski> too busy
<czajkowski> :)
<popey> davmor2: hmm?
<hoover> morning all
<davmor2> popey: in the Topic it's not asterisks any more for pompoms
<popey> ahh
<davmor2> popey: so the awesome got awesomer and again /me waits for czajkowski head to explode
 * jussi waves to davmor2
<davmor2> jussi: Hey dude
<jussi> davmor2: My daughter is feeling better now, its amazing the difference when they have been sick and then they are happy
<davmor2> jussi: Woohoo!  glad to hear it dude, nothing worse than a poorly kid and you can't do anything :(
<jussi> davmor2: yeah, it wasnt serious, just an upset tummy, but still, not nice for her
<jussi> when well, she is such a happy kid
<jussi> davmor2: you did hear the name, tight?
<jussi> right*
<davmor2> jussi: Nope  you hadn't chosen one when last we spoke
<jussi> oh! Her name is Elodi Aurora :)
<davmor2> jussi: you should of gone the whole hog and added Borealis as a second middle name ;)   nice name though on a more serious note :)
<jussi> :D
<jussi> davmor2: but then I would have had to choose Australis or Borealis... was too hard so we left it out :P
<jussi> (given Im australian and Sari si a finn...)
<davmor2> haha
<popey> \o/ spotify is fixed
<popey> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/03/spotify-for-linux-preview-gets-small-bug-fix-update/ works for m
<popey> *me
<bigcalm> Might have to give it a go
<popey> damnit, works on one pc, not on another
<bigcalm> I can't remember the package name for me to remove
<popey> remove?
<bigcalm> Remove my current install (from the spotify site)
<Niels_> remove what
<popey> Êâ¿à² 
<bigcalm> Show off :P
<popey> hah
<davmor2> bigcalm: no it just means he has way too much time on his hands
<bigcalm> spotify-client-qt
<daubers> Hmm... my 3g modem has stopped working in precise
<bigcalm> Nope, still crashes upon loading
<bigcalm> Meh
<oimon> startup disk creator requires password entry 4 times when writing a usb. worse than vista :(
<popey> file a bug?
<bigcalm> But works if I launch it from the CLI
<bigcalm> Humms
<czajkowski> anyone else having issues when they open up any folder and try and get the scroll bars to work, cant seem to touch mine but they go and hide  on me
<popey> overlay scrollbars?
<davmor2> bigcalm: check the /usr/share/applications/<name_of_app>.desktop  file and ensure the details are correct
<bigcalm> davmor2: how would I know if they were not? :)
<Laney> run the command it has there and see if it then crashes
<bigcalm> The command is 'spotify %U'
<czajkowski> popey: yup
<bigcalm> I'm not sure what it expects to be passed into %U
<davmor2> bigcalm: if the path is pointing some where other than where the app is etc,  it might be that the original version left it's desktop file in place so it is pointing at the old version not the new for example
<Laney> it just means it can open URLs / files
<daubers> Where on earth is all the usb-modeswitch data kept these days?
<Laney> it is supposed to be removed if launched from a menu
<MartijnVdS> daubers: /lib/udev?
<Laney> i.e. 'spotify'
<oimon> RS Components said it will have the first batch of Raspberry Pi microcomputers in its warehouses by the end of March.
<MartijnVdS> oimon: I have "Stock allocated" by Farnell for the end of April
<popey> i got a mail from RS saying thanks for joining the mailing list, no idea how to order or pre-order
<gord> spotify still crash
<gord> its all lies!
<Laney> right-click and menus working again is LIES
<daubers> Hmmm.... if I put it in a USB2.0 port it works, in a USB3 port it doesn't
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Lord] How to: OpenERP 6.1, Ubuntu 10.04 LTS, nginx SSL Reverse Proxy - http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2012/03/12/how-to-openerp-6-1-ubuntu-10-04-lts-nginx-ssl-reverse-proxy/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=how-to-openerp-6-1-ubuntu-10-04-lts-nginx-ssl-reverse-proxy
 * gord spies a not pretty url
<gordonjcp> would openerp be a good fit for a stock control system?
<gordonjcp> it looks like it does a hell of a lot more than I need
<AlanBell> gordonjcp: it would, you can turn off stuff you don't use
 * popey hands AlanBell http://ocaoimh.ie/2010/02/22/remove-unused-utmsource-urls/
<AlanBell> not a very clueful article
<AlanBell> it is google analytics stuff, I dunno how much value it adds though. TheOpenSourcerer probably has an opinion.
<TheOpenSourcerer> That URL is from the planet not me.
<AlanBell> it is from the RSS feed
<AlanBell> planet isn't adding it, the wordpress google analytics plugin is (probably)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh OK - It doesn't happen that often so I'm totally unfussed.
<gord> i propose all planet urls are first passed through http://socuteurl.com
<AlanBell> I like that!
<diplo> http://socuteurl.com/pugmuffypuppy
<diplo> :D
<diplo> I could see some odd combinations coming out of that!
<BigRedS> I just got http://socuteurl.com/weewillyrub ...
<MartijnVdS> ...
<popey> haha
<diplo> heh that's the sort of thing I was thinking, but was thinking more of the lady garden
<diplo> :P
<popey> Êâ¿à² 
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: sounds good
<oimon> is there a quicker tool than wipe? i'd like to use DBAN to wipe a disk before a RTM but only have ubuntu livecd with me. any suggestions?
<diplo> All depends how well you want it wiped
<diplo> Is it really sensitive data ?
<diplo> tbh, I'd be happy with formatting it a few times
<gordonjcp> formatting won't help
<gordonjcp> since you're not actually writing to all sectors
<gordonjcp> for all practical purposes a single pass of /dev/zero will destroy all data on the disk beyond hope of recovery
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: Not 600 times /dev/random1?!?!11/!?
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: not in this lifetime
<popey> dd zero over the disk is enougfh
<popey> nobody has ever recovered a disk that has had dd if=/dev/zero /dev/sda
<popey> AFAIAA
<gordonjcp> well, no
<gordonjcp> and saying you can look at residual magnetism doesn't work either
<popey> âº
<gordonjcp> not since about the earliest >1GB disks
<MartijnVdS> That's what NSA spooks _would_ say :)
<oimon> dd /dev/zero doesn't have a progress bar :(
<oimon> i think there's a kill command to see progress tho
<oimon> i'm doing that instead tho, thanks for sugestion
<AlanBell> kill -USR1
<oimon> wipe uses /dev/random , and even quick wipe is 4x
<oimon> gonna take a while on a 500gb laptop disk :-\
<gordonjcp> make sure you're on the right disk
<oimon> :D
<gordonjcp> -!- oimon has quit (connection just plain gone...)
<oimon> anyone use mathematica?
<oimon> trying to do some data analysis, dunno where to start
<andylockran> aww
<gord> oimon, can you not make it use /dev/urandom - it has less entropy but is way quicker
<oimon> zero is quicker gord :D
<oimon> but still slow
<oimon> :(
<gord> yeah but zero is more suspicious!
<gord> there should be an easy way you can wipe a drive, replacing it with a fake windows 98 (not se) install that is full of viruses
<daubers> oimon: mathematica \o/
<oimon> daubers, wondering whether i should use it or libreoffice calc
<daubers> oimon: What're you trying to achieve?
<oimon> i have a sqllite db of interesting data i'd like to draw graphs with
<daubers> (mathematica = powerful++ compared to libreoffice)
<MartijnVdS> Really? ;)
<daubers> oimon: Is it lots of data or simple graphs? any manipulation involved?
<oimon> mathematica imports it as a list of lists (i think ) { {1,fred,3}, {3,bob,2},... }
<oimon> it is a list of hundreds of machines and all data about the machine (disk IOPS, etc).
<daubers> oimon: I'd do it in mathematica (tbh) with hundreds of data points if you're doing maniupations on them
<daubers> mathematica can make nicer graphs (IMHO) too
<oimon> unfortunately i'll need to learn mathemtaica first :(
<daubers> been a long time since I used it
<daubers> oimon: Worth learning if you do lots of math
<oimon> will probably make me look cool, but unsure if i have time
<daubers> heh :)
<daubers> oimon: Do it in LO, then if you have time, play with mathematica
<oimon> probably that's what's gonna happen
<daubers> once you've got a worksheet in mathematica, rerunning it with new data is quite easy
<daubers> used to do that lots with experimental results
<oimon> did you see what stephen wolfram blogged about recently?
<MartijnVdS> oimon: his phone calls and keystrokes you mean?>
<oimon> yeah
<daubers> I did :) Made me want to start collecting everything
<oimon> i want the source :P
<oimon> its pointless though
<ali1234> oimon:  use python
<oimon> ali1234, numpy/scipy ?
<ali1234> http://www.scipy.org/PyLab
<directhex> R!
<popey> directhex: I HAZ XBOX360!
<popey> (ta)
<directhex> popey, hook it up & make sure it works as expected, otherwise it's time to moan at hermes
<directhex> popey, the video cable has a switch on the side to decide if it tries HD (720p by default) or not. i think i set it to SD before shipping
<oimon> have some semi useful results in mathematica now, has similar features to python actually
<popey> directhex: it does work
 * daubers loves the mathematica
<MartijnVdS> daubers: mathemagician
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lBeungEnx4
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: there are python/matlab wars?
<ali1234> yes
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: Strange people
<oimon> humans war over anything possible
<MartijnVdS> oimon: VI!
<oimon> vim!
<oimon> vim-enhanced!
<MartijnVdS> gvim!
<oimon> vim-tiny!
<oimon> peoples front of judea
<bigcalm> Is Echo123 working for anybody here? Not able to test my connection is a worry
<directhex> popey, time to stock up on games, then!
<bigcalm> Before Game nose dives?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: your connection is worky!
<directhex> i'd say there are bargains to be had at game, but there probably aren't
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: not much of a surprise that. Though the test call just worked for me
<oimon> ali1234, i'm tempted to use python but mathematica just makes it so easy
<MartijnVdS> gnuplot!
<oimon> although all i'm doing at the mo is open sqlite db, perform a sql query, then plot a sorted list of the Xth field of the resulting list
<MartijnVdS> gnuplot! ;)
<ali1234> what's the deal with EA and Game?
<popey> directhex: yes!
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: They lost the game?
<popey> directhex: will probably take a trip to the local indie game shop and rummage in the bargain bucket
<ali1234> game should go back to being gamestation and only selling second hand and grey market imports
<gord> ali1234, poor xmas performance at game basically meant they couldn't afford to buy video games anymore. so they went to the big publishers and asked them to loan them games to be paid off at a later date, ea refused
<ali1234> and ubisoft too presumably?
<gord> i read they are looking for a buyer for game now, not sure who would be interested
<directhex> ali1234, nintendo and capcom too
<directhex> popey, remember: viva pinata!
<ali1234> actually, were game and gamestation ever the same company?
<directhex> ali1234, after game bought them yes
<ali1234> i see
<gord> i could maybe see someone buying the gamestation part of the business, seems to do better
<oimon> occasionally i browse those shops but haven't bought anything for many yeasr
<popey> *sigh* https://lists.launchpad.net/unity-design/msg08688.html
<ali1234> god bloke again?
<popey> ya
<popey> "god bloke" âº
<popey> he's only about 12 iirc
<popey> well, says he is
<MartijnVdS> God kid then
<MartijnVdS> Whoa.
<MartijnVdS> Wheels for suitcases were invented AFTER the moon landing
<MartijnVdS> http://articles.cnn.com/2010-10-04/travel/wheeled.luggage.anniversary_1_bob-plath-suitcase-wheels?_s=PM:TRAVEL
<ali1234> then how did astronauts get their luggage over those craters etc?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: they lugged it around.. LUGgage
<popey> it was all done with wires in a warehouse
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<popey> :D
<popey> <ascii_trollface_here>
<gord> y'know those people with the tiny bags? about the size of a large handbag or so? but they have wheels on them and cart them around the airport? those people should be banned from england
<MartijnVdS> Easyjet accepts those as cabin baggage
<MartijnVdS> so that's why people have them
<gord> they also accept non wheeled small bags
<MartijnVdS> of course, but tell that to the public
<gord> i thought it was common sense
<ali1234> yeah but when you have to spend 3 1/2 hours waiting on the other side of the check in gate
<ali1234> you can see why you wouldn't want to carry it around, even if it is fairly light
 * MartijnVdS has a very good backpack
<daubers> Hmmm.... British train prices are silly
<ali1234> not if you book advance
<daubers> I can go from paris to venice (return ticket) for Â£73.50
<daubers> yet a peak ticket to London from Reading is Â£57 odd
<daubers> sorry,  Reading to London
<popey> bah, why did we switch back to rhythmbox
<popey> its utter poo
<ali1234> yeah it is isn't it?
<ali1234> i'm still using banshee
<popey> crashtastic
<popey> play one song, click anywhere in the UI.. BANG
<popey> looks like apport is uploading an 8GB core dump or something now
<ali1234> lolz
<ali1234> what's with the new apport that just reports it and doesn't ask you for any details or give you a link to the bug?
<popey> thats whoopsie
<popey> (yes, I know)
<ali1234> whoopsie?
<popey> yes
<ali1234> what's that?
<popey> the new crashreporter
<ali1234> so, is it supposed to do that?
<popey> which allows you to submit crashdumps without a launchpad id
<popey> but you still can do the usual apport thing
<popey> it seems to be better at detecting duplicates now
<popey> or I am just getting a lot of dupes
<gord> hrm, rhythmbox works perfectly for me
<gord> not crashed in a long long time
<ali1234> mostly when i get a real crash i don't have anything useful to add to the bug report anyway
<ali1234> "it just randomly crashed" isn't helpful i guess
<popey> lolsummary "rhythmbox crashed with SIGSEGV"
<bigcalm> Trying to sort out car insurance, what would this mean? "Did the insurer of your vehicle recover the cost of the claim?"
<bigcalm> I made a claim for flood damage and they paid me
<davmor2> bigcalm: Pass I've never made a claim
<AlanBell> bigcalm: that means did the insurer sue the other person's insurance and get their money back
<AlanBell> for flood damage they would have to sue $deity and those do not have a history of paying out
<davmor2> AlanBell: for Act of God disasters I think we should be allowed to sue the Pope as Gods representative on earth :)
<AlanBell> or people who evangelise on mailing lists :)
<oimon> hmm mathematica has crashed 3 times on me today. don't get this problem on centos/SL
<bigcalm> Ta peeps :)
<bigcalm> Renewal cost with Direct Line > 750 quid. Quote from Hastings Direct 464 quid
 * bigcalm does a couple more searches to be sure
<popey> phone direct line back, they'll price match
<bigcalm> I'm sure they will, but I still want to have more than one example quote
<bigcalm> And I need to find some cheaper break down cover. Current renewal cost for that is well over 100 quid
<MartijnVdS> don't break down ;)
<bigcalm> I haven't yet
<bigcalm> Well, I had a break down in 2003, but I wasn't a driver back then
<MartijnVdS> Aren't breakdowns covered by the NHS? ;)
<daubers> I had a breakdown last year, but fixed it myself :)
<MartijnVdS> daubers: home-made prozac?
<bigcalm> More Than 582.77, LV 692.71. Hastings Direct looks the best so far
<bigcalm> Who else shall I check against?
<gord> you should compare the mearcat
<gord> that is a thing right?
<davmor2> bigcalm: There is epic popey's site, moneysupermarket.com , comparethemarket.com , gocompare.com , directline.com , lv.com , churchhill.com , admiral.com
<gord> do the one with the oh yes dog
<MartijnVdS> Do the one with the least annoying ad
<davmor2> bigcalm: it's also worth checking the supermarket site asda, tesco not sure if sainsbury's and the others do insurance too
<bigcalm> I'm doing Sainsbury's now
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Nah, was a mucked up spark plug
<bigcalm> Wow, Sainsbury's are expensive
<davmor2> bigcalm: that's why I said asda and tesco :P
 * daubers hasn't heard back from the solicitor
 * daubers ponders ringing the estate agent...
<davmor2> bigcalm: to be fair most of the supermarkets are but occasionally they have a really good deal if you catch them in sales mode
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'm pretty sure Tesco get their insurance products from Direct Line
<TheOpenSourcerer> Have been very happy with price and service from DL for plenty of years.
<TheOpenSourcerer> bigcalm: I went back to DL last year at renewal time and said they were expensive. They said what do you think you should pay, I told them and they pretty much matched it.
<bigcalm> Nice
<DJones> bigcalm: Try Liverpool Victoria, they halved my quotation, and have just knocked 25% off my wifes quote
<popey> bah, cat is sick â¹
<MartijnVdS> popey: eww
<MartijnVdS> Vet o'clock!
<gord> giant, bright LED's on my router burnt out or something :D
<gord> fast forward to a months time when gord is complaining that his router has broken
<MartijnVdS> gord: the smell of magic smoke?
<gord> MartijnVdS, had it hidden away for a while, not actually physically looked at it for 5/6 months or so
<gord> for said giant, bright LED related reasons
<MartijnVdS> gord: "SED" -> Smoke-Emitting Diode
<andylockran> :D
<davmor2> gord: is it your router or the isp's if it is the isp's report it
<gord> the important LEDs are still working ;) just the giant pointless one that stopped
<gord> davmor2, no, a, its my router, b, this is a *good* thing ;)
<davmor2> gord: or so you think :D
<davmor2> gord: it's that led that allows you're ps3 to connect with out it no online gaming for you ;)
<MartijnVdS> that LED is only on when they're watching you
<MartijnVdS> like webcam leds
<AlanBell> evening all
<mattt> hey alan
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] Expressing a Pinterest - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2012/03/12/expressing-a-pinterest/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=expressing-a-pinterest
 * daubers requires coffee
<MartijnVdS> echo coffee | daubers
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Accomplishments Design: Update! - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/03/12/ubuntu-accomplishments-design-update/
<Azelphur> how can I kill a screen, and the process inside it?
<Azelphur> like, aggressively kill, -9 style :p
<czajkowski> screen wipe?
<Azelphur> don't think that's it
<daubers> Azelphur: just kill the screen?
<Azelphur> think I found it, screen -S some_name -X quit
<AlanBell> 654MB of upgrades today /o\
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Ctrl+a, Ctrl+K? kill -9 the processes? screen -X "kill" id-of-screen ?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: yea, I found it :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alistair McKinlay] The problem with Game - http://www.10people.co.uk/index.php/2012/03/the-problem-with-game/
<gordonjcp> ugh, what a horrible website
<gordonjcp> I kept clicking on things on 10people trying to get the lightbox-effect greyed-out thing to go away
<gordonjcp> but apparently it's part of the site design
<gordonjcp> a website designed to look as though your monitor is knackered
<gordonjcp> I have perfect vision, and that is too low contrast for me to read comfortably
<YaManicKill> gordonjcp: which bit exactly is too low contrast?
<gordonjcp> the text
<gordonjcp> actually the menu down the side is pretty hard to read too
<YaManicKill> the only thing i have problems with is the tag cloud, but i'd had big issues with that and getting it to use my css colours, i kinda gave up on it...
<gordonjcp> where's the tag cloud/
<YaManicKill> but as for the normal text, i don't have any issues with it, but i'll see what i can do to fix it
<YaManicKill> gordonjcp: top of the sidebar
<YaManicKill> it is flash though, so if you don't have that its a bit weird
<gordonjcp> I can see where it says "My Tags"
<YaManicKill> yeah, underneath that there is actually a tag cloud, but the colours seem to have a mind of their own
<gordonjcp> oh, I can see it change when I mouse over it, the larger text is just about readable
<gordonjcp> but it looks like black on 10% grey
<YaManicKill> yeah it is pathetic that bit
<gordonjcp> hm, that's odd, the body text is showing up a lot darker now
<YaManicKill> cause its flash, it doesn't work very well with my css files
<YaManicKill> ok, so its not an issue now? that's weird, maybe it was a blip on my server and it wasn't serving the css files properly
<gordonjcp> "For all intensive purposes" -> "For all intents and purposes"
<gordonjcp> :-)
<YaManicKill> done. incase you couldn't tell, i failed English at school :-P
<gordonjcp> heh
<gordonjcp> don't pull the dyslexia card, I'm ridiculously dyslexic ;-)
<YaManicKill> haha, no i'm not dyslexic
<gordonjcp> that's one of the reasons I'm so picky about language
<YaManicKill> fairynuff
<popey> directhex: how on earth do you get the batteries out of the controller?
<YaManicKill> but seriously, if you have issues with my website please let me know what i can do to make it better etc. I don't claim to be a great web designer, just an amateur.
<popey> directhex: managed it!
<gordonjcp> YaManicKill: it does look really low-contrast still
<gordonjcp> my website is pretty crap too though, so you may want to take my advice fairly lightly
<YaManicKill> lol, well I'll have a play around with some colours later when I actually have some free time fromuni
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] DirecTV Charge You To Fix Their Service Issues - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/03/12/directtv-charge-you-to-fix-their-service-issues/
<directhex> popey: no idea, i bought a play-and-charge kit immediately
#ubuntu-uk 2012-03-13
<ali1234> oh great, the new catalyst driver is back with the old 100% cpu bug
<DJones> Morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning. Quiet in here isn't it?
<DJones> Yep
<AlanBell> morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hi DJones, AlanBell
<DJones> Hi both of you and any late comers yet to awaken
<TheOpenSourcerer> Some of us have been up for *ages*
<DJones> Define ages :)
<DJones> To me, *ages* ago was my 6:30 alarm clock, but that'll be a lie in for others
<czajkowski> aloha
 * MartijnVdS likes "The Tube" (BBC)
<TheOpenSourcerer> I woke up around 06:00, made tea and coffeee by 06:15, in my office by 07:15
<christel> good morning my lovelies
 * dwatkins wanders in and bids everyone good morning
<MartijnVdS> hellos!
<czajkowski> christel: hello darling how are you?
<christel> i am pretty well, yourself my dear? :D
<czajkowski> ntb
<christel> :D
<christel> new job still good?
<hoover> morning folks
<czajkowski> christel: yup loving it
<czajkowski> christel: even days I know what I'm doing :)
<christel> haha
<christel> morning hoover :)
<popey> Morning all
<christel> hello popey
 * czajkowski hugs popey 
<MartijnVdS> Is Alt+F2 broken for anyone else?
<popey> wfm, but I haven't updated since yesterday
<AlanBell> works for me
<czajkowski> MartijnVdS: wfm
<MartijnVdS> hmm
<AlanBell> F10 is busted
<popey> 5.4.0+bzr2074ubuntu0+654
<MartijnVdS> 5.6.0-0ubuntu1
<AlanBell> 5.6.0-0ubuntu1 for me too
<MartijnVdS> Hmm
 * popey updates
 * popey notes packages from ppa:unity-team/staging are coming down
 * MartijnVdS double-checks ccsm
<MartijnVdS> "Key to execute a command" -> <Alt>F2
<MartijnVdS> alt-tab is also broken.. Hmmm!
<MartijnVdS> let me try the Windows solution first
<popey> #blamehud
<MartijnVdS> popey: I've disabled that key binding
<MartijnVdS> and if I enable it alt+F2 works again
<MartijnVdS> #filebug
<AlanBell> bug 953853
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 953853 in unity (Ubuntu) "F10 to focus on the menu/indicators doesn't work" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/953853
<JamesTait> Good morning, all! :D
<christel> morning JamesTait :)
<JamesTait> Hi christel. :)
<MartijnVdS> Mine is bug 953855
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 953855 in unity (Ubuntu) "Alt-combinations (Alt+Tab, Alt+F2) don't work if "Key to show HUD" is disabled or not set to <Alt>" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/953855
<MartijnVdS> great, clock is gone too.
<MartijnVdS> all applets really
<daubers> Morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
<daubers> took me 1h 30m to do 10 miles this morning
<daubers> stupid railway bridges
<dwatkins> did you run it, daubers?
<MartijnVdS> daubers: I can almost run that fast
 * dwatkins learned today that there are people who do runs of 100 miles in "one" go (i.e. 80 hours over several days, non-stop apart from sleeping etc.)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: Ultrarunners.. scary people :)
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: yeah, colleague of mine apparently know the world record holder.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: also http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00m3z1f
<dwatkins> I think I amused my colleagues by pointing out that 'we' (as a species) used to do this sort of thing all the time when we lived in warmer climates where we'd ahve to run after our food.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: Yes. Humans _are_ the best endurance runners. When trained.
<daubers> dwatkins: No, I drove it
<popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/compiz-core/+bug/943223
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 943223 in Unity Distro Priority "you have to release alt for alt + F10 working" [Medium,Fix committed]
<popey> seems we're switching from F10 to ALT+F10 for menu
<daubers> F10 brought up a menu?
<popey> it used to
<AlanBell> popey: ok, that works
<daubers> I see...
<dwatkins> daubers: ah, reminds me of the last time we had a couple cm of snow in Reading... ;)
<daubers> dwatkins: This is because they've closed all the side roads off the A4 to Aldermaston to raise up the railway bridges
<daubers> and there are traffic lights next to the little road that cuts back into aldermaston :)
<daubers> Was queuing up to the Springbok this morning
<daubers> Then someone at Thatcham threw themselves in front of a train, which caused more problems!
<dwatkins> oh my :(
<dwatkins> friend of mine works on the railway near there, I imagine he'll know all about it. Tragic.
<diplo> Morning all
<popey> anyone else use 12.04 with encrypted home (and thus encrypted swap)?
<popey> bug 953875
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 953875 in ecryptfs-utils (Ubuntu) "Encrypted swap no longer mounted at bootup" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/953875
<popey> no idea where to look
<gord> huh encrypted swap, is that not really slow?
<dwatkins> make it software RAID 5, just for fun?
<popey> 8GB RAM, rarely use swap
<popey> its the default if you switch on encrypted home
<dwatkins> does an strace of swapon give any clues?
<popey> well the bug shows that the crpytswap1 doesnt exist
<gord> just wondering, why bother with swap at all then?
<gordonjcp> heh
<gordonjcp> encrypted disks
<dwatkins> http://askubuntu.com/questions/56843/could-not-mount-dev-mapper-cryptswap1 - maybe it's just not encrypted
<gordonjcp> great, if you're patient
<gordonjcp> the easiest way to make *everything* CPU-bound
<dwatkins> I can understand a locked-down configuration needing encrypted swap, so it's fair to have it as an option.
<dwatkins> (if there's not a lot of RAM or only occasional need for large applications to run)
<popey> gord: because some swap is better than no swap
<gord> i'm of the opinion that in a modern environment, if something hits swap, chances are its going to hit a lot of swap, choking the system entirely
<popey> in a modern "working correctly" environment, maybe
<popey> I'd rather my apps didn't get OOM killed for the sake of a bit of disk space as swap
<dwatkins> Is OOM still a bit of a lottery?
<dwatkins> I guess there's no easy way to not make it a lottery.
<MartijnVdS> Well OOM usually happens when something wants more memory
<MartijnVdS> which usually happens because it's eating a lot of memory in a loop
 * dwatkins nods
<MartijnVdS> my last few OOMs killed the (already crashing) app
<dwatkins> I've seen OOM happen when a job scheduler mistakenly put more jobs on a cluster node than it had RAM for, too.
<dwatkins> That's kinda 'doh' though, obviously.
<MartijnVdS> does anyone else get a big white "window" that isn't a window on their screen?
<MartijnVdS> and it won't go away until you restart unity
<dwatkins> been writing OpenGL applications, MartijnVdS?
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: no.. just opened a new Chrome tab
<directhex> the oom killer has a fatal design flaw
<directhex> http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/qmzdy/so_um_i_think_my_syslog_is_threatening_me/c3yw31k
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: that edxplains my work machine's "going down in flames" sometimes
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: but not since I disabled swap :)
<dwatkins> sounds familiar, directhex
<popey> that AU answer looks wrong
<dwatkins> I was surprised the device may end up not being encrypted when it should be
<popey> its not showing up in blkid
<popey> that au seems to assume you dont want encrypted swap
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<davmor2> morning all, czajkowski prod
<diplo> AlanBell, TheOpenSourcerer : You guys use Alfresco don't you ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> diplo yes.
<diplo> Do you use the ppa or just install from the bin file ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Personally I break the bin and install in bits. But AlanBell is probably a better person on Alf than me.
<diplo> kk thanks, just downloading now so will take a looksy
<diplo> The PPA hasn't been updated since 10.04 so guessing it's a bit dead anyhoo
<AlanBell> diplo: don't install from ppa or repos
<diplo> OK ta, just creating a new VM and downloading precise/alfresco
<diplo> Blimey, Community is 523mb :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> yeah - it has everything in it.
<TheOpenSourcerer> MySQL, Tomcat, Java...
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh yeah. And Alfresco :-)
<AlanBell> postgres
<AlanBell> not mysql now
<diplo> ah right, so you can't use what you already have.. bit like Xampp package
<diplo> Just finished downloading so will take a look shorylu
<diplo> shortly*
<AlanBell> diplo: yeah, sadly it is like that
<diplo> Is it the only CMS you use ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> diplo: You can - it's a bit of a pita but splitting the bits out is doable.
<diplo> Basically I've heard you guys chat about it, I want some where to store all our work docs
<diplo> And if possible make them searchable, if not make a more basic one wrote by myself but I really don't fancy the latter
<TheOpenSourcerer> Searching is something Alfresco is pretty good at. Solr+Lucene IIRC
<diplo> thanks Alans x2
 * diplo plays for a few hours
<dotwaffle> mwah hah hah
<meet> hi..i just installed the marlin file browser. But how to make it the default file browser and remove nautilus?
<popey> gord: whats the keyboard combo to flip wifi off on the x220?
<popey> I managed to punch some keys and it went off "Wireless is disabled"
<popey> I had to flick the hardware switch off and back on to get it back!
<popey> I think it was Fn and something in the top left but none of them have a wifi thing on
<meet> try fn +f 2
<popey> thats lock
<popey> F1 is blank, F2 is lock, F2 is battery (power manager), F4 is suspend
<dwatkins> F5, popey - http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/X-Series-ThinkPad-Laptops/Turn-Wireless-Radios-On-and-Off-on-X220/td-p/437941
<popey> oh, so it is!
<popey> i thought that was the one to switch external display on/off
<popey> but thats f7
<popey> ta
<dwatkins> looks like you need their driver/app installed for this to work
<popey> works for me :D
<dwatkins> cool, makes me wonder what's marked on the F5 key
<dwatkins> some arbitrary icon, no doubt ;)
<meet> dwatkins any suggestions on how to set marlin as the default file browser?
<dwatkins> meet: no, sorry
<meet> ok..no worries
<dwatkins> Mez: did you read this? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DefaultFileManager perhaps it'll help?
<popey> he left
<Mez> no I didn't
<andylockran> hey all
<popey> BARK BARK BARK BARK ANDYLOCKRAN BARK BARK
<andylockran> Anyone got experience running apache + SQLServer with php ?
<andylockran> good dog popey
 * popey pants
<BigRedS> ew
<czajkowski> this channel gets stranger and stranger all  without the help of davmor2
<popey> hah
<andylockran> a client wants to run some of our code on his server, I've only used MySQL, Postgres & Oracle before
<andylockran> was wondering how much of a potential pain it could be using mssql
<BigRedS> it shouldn't care, that's the point of PDO isn't it?
<davmor2> czajkowski: told you it was you :P
<BigRedS> assuming the SQL you're running is MS friendly
<andylockran> BigRedS: yeah, it shouldn't care.
<andylockran> but will it :)
<yossarianuk> obviously there is a risk of contracting computer AIDS by using any MS product...
<oimon> always practice safe hex
<MartijnVdS> oimon: so.. little-endian or big-endian? :)
<andylockran> !family
<andylockran> !familyfriendly
<andylockran> !help
<lubotu3`> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<AlanBell> andylockran: lots of aliases for that one http://ubottu.com/factoids.cgi?search=family but not the one you were looking for :)
<justalek> i need help with dual boot. I have ubuntu 11.10 and windows. Problem is, when I'am at boot splash screen and when I choose windows7loader from drop menu it cannot boot
<andylockran> AlanBell: thanks :)
<justalek> need help with dual boot. Anyone can help?
<MartijnVdS> what's the problem?
<MartijnVdS> does it give you an error message?
<MartijnVdS> Did it work before?
<justalek> i have ubuntu 11.10 and windows. The problem is when Im choose windows7loader from splash boot screen, it cannot boot win
<justalek> it just do nothing
<justalek> yes, it is work
<justalek> no error message
<MartijnVdS> Did it ever work?
<justalek> yes
<MartijnVdS> Did you change anything?
<justalek> i have problem with graphic intel gma
<justalek> and i change grub file
<justalek> I just added this line in grub file: GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="acpi_osi="
<justalek> i was change to  GRUB_DEFAULT=6
<justalek> it was GRUB_DEFAULT=0
<justalek> but nothing happened
<iclebyte> is there a repo or 'ppa' I can add to upgrade my kernel to 2.35.x ?
<MartijnVdS> 2.35? Which version of Ubuntu are you using?
<justalek> 11.10
<MartijnVdS> also, you probably mean 2.6.35.x
<MartijnVdS> justalek: And that would be a downgrade, as 11.10 comes with 3.0
<iclebyte> i'm actually running 10.04LTS so 2.6.32-28-server at the moment, but yes I want to run 2.6.35.x
<MartijnVdS> uhr
<MartijnVdS> iclebyte:
 * MartijnVdS confusne
<MartijnVdS> iclebyte: no, you don't :) It'll probably break thing like udev horribly.
<MartijnVdS> iclebyte: Only do that if you REALLY need the hardware support and can't use backported drivers
<justalek> MartijnVdS: yes, i have 3.0
<iclebyte> grr, i need a qlogic driver which is in 2.6.35
<iclebyte> for a 10gigE fibre card
<oimon> seen the latest ARM news?
<MartijnVdS> the very tiny one?
<oimon> despite Intel's bluff and marketing, ARM are always a step ahead
<oimon> when it comes to low power chips
<gord> arms chips aren't as low power as they would have you believe ;) they are just good at doing nothing
<gordonjcp> gord: at some point I'll hook my LPC11U14 board up to a current shunt, and see...
<gordonjcp> in other news, hell yeah, PWMed sine wave output
<gord> in my experience, you hook an arm chip up to a "regular" computing experience and it eats up less, but not much less, than a regular intel laptop
<davmor2> Moo!
<davmor2> gord: yeah but isn't the most called item idle?
<MartijnVdS> So.. anyone with Unity 5.6.0-0ubuntu3 have problems with their indicators?
<MartijnVdS> My indicators are in a loop where they die, get restarted, etc. VERY fast
<MartijnVdS> WARN  2012-03-13 19:02:22 unity <unknown>:0 Unable to perform Sync() on panel service: GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NoReply: Message did not receive a reply (timeout by message bus)
<MartijnVdS> (says unity)
<MartijnVdS> ah! it segfaults a lot
<SuperEngineer> evenin all ;)  any kindle users out there? [coughs in popey 's direction] - for reading I assume ok - but do I go kindle or kindle fire?
<MartijnVdS> I have a 'normal' kindle
<MartijnVdS> it's amazing
<MartijnVdS> weeks on one battery charge
<MartijnVdS> (with wifi off)
<SuperEngineer> woh - that *is* impressive
<SuperEngineer> can it manage pdfs - I hear bad stuff about that
<apacheuk> can confirm MartijnVdS observations re battery life, use mine every day during lunchbreaks
<MartijnVdS> It can, but it prefers mobi
<MartijnVdS> I use mine on train journeys
<apacheuk> I would avoid the fire from what I hear its a fairly restricted version of android, I'd go for a full blown tablet if you what the extras that android can offer
<SuperEngineer> as long as  "it can" [as in readable] - that's seems good enough for the occasional pdf methinks
<SuperEngineer> don't need tablet - netbooks do me fine - so sounds like it's a normal kindle for SuperEngineer
<SuperEngineer> thanks  MartijnVdS & apacheuk
<apacheuk> question re the keyring file, presumably its encrypted... does anyone know to what level?
<AlanBell> PKCS#11
<MartijnVdS> that's not a level that's a method :)
<AlanBell> true
<MartijnVdS> it's an API even
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PKCS11
<apacheuk> AlanBell, cheers
<apacheuk> I think it'll do tho, need to store some *sensitive* info and it seems like a good place
<SuperEngineer> wheee! Ubuntu-Uk  podcast in 5 ;)
<diplo> Anyone about to help someone having a stupid night ?
<diplo> What would stop me pining localhost/127....
<diplo> but ping6 ::1 works
<bigcalm> One day I shall look at this ipv6 thingy
<dwatkins> likewise
<dwatkins> probably when I have to
<diplo> Likewise :)
<apacheuk> after school clubs? I remember learning to program after school in a computer club
<apacheuk> everyone now needs ict skills, but not all want to program
<diplo> apacheuk, think there is a podcast channel
<apacheuk> yeah, just realised... not easy doing this on my phone :)
<diplo> hwh
<diplo> heh*
<apacheuk> thought it was a bit quite :)
<AlanBell> should rhythmbox and banshee be able to see music on an ipad that has been purchased from itunes?
<AlanBell> and if you plug in an iPad and try and sync with banshee it wants to delete all the stuff on the iPad, which seems a bit harsh, isn't sync supposed to be a two way operation?
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: banshee does
<gordonjcp> I didn't find it tried to delete stuff off the iPod nano I tried it with
<gordonjcp> rhythmbox deleted my entire MP3 collection, however
<AlanBell> dad has a Bruce Springstein album on the iPad and it can't see it
<AlanBell> yeah, rhythmbox wiped mums iPod which was a bit of a worry for a few minutes
<gordonjcp> yeah
<gordonjcp> like I say, it wiped my entire media server, apparently because it considered .ogg and .mp3 files to be invalid
<gordonjcp> well, all the audio stuff anyway
<AlanBell> I can navigate to the purchased folder on the iPad and see the .m4u files and play them
<gordonjcp> I did think that maybe if Ubuntu are going to inflict rhythmbox on users from 12.04 on, they might have fixed some of the more egregious bugs
<gordonjcp> but no
<AlanBell> it doesn't see all the playlists, and all the music, but we are not sure which or why
<gordonjcp> from 12.04 it appears that banshee is dropped in favour of the reanimated corpse of rhythmbox, with all the bugs it had five years ago when it was last worked on
<AlanBell> well banshee is pretty much the same as rhythmbox, I struggle to choose between them
<AlanBell> banshee did at least say that it was going to delete 600 files before actually doing so
<directhex> AlanBell: which ios version? depends whether libidevice is sufficiently new. apple intentionally break support in every ios update
<AlanBell> directhex: it is an iPad that was purchased for this christmas so probably an iPad 2, and using 12.04
<diplo> Now it's a bit livelier in here,  any one got any suggestions why I can't ping localhost/127.0 ?
<diplo> I think it may need to wait till morning and a full nights sleep
<directhex> AlanBell: right, but that could be several versions of ios
<diplo> Boy had me up all night :(
<AlanBell> oh, I will try to find out then. I thought all the apple devices were upgraded at once or something, and they poke fun at android phones still waiting for ICS
<AlanBell> what I don't understand is that it sees *most* of the music on the device
<directhex> "Any device with DBVersion > 4 does NOT work. To check your DBVersion run "ideviceinfo -q com.apple.mobile.iTunes -k DBVersion"."
<directhex> i.e. libimobiledevice only supports ios 4
<directhex> for music symc
<directhex> apple \o/
<AlanBell> how come it doesn't totally fail?
<AlanBell> 13.03.2012: iOS 5.1 works fine with libimobiledevice. hey, that is today :)
<popey> evening
<popey> AlanBell: is the music you can see stuff that has been copied onto the ipad, and stuff you can't see stuff that was bought?
<AlanBell> dad thinks it is stuff that has happened since the last iTunes sync or something isn't visible
<lazarus_> o/
#ubuntu-uk 2012-03-14
<AlanBell> night all o/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Accomplishments Updates - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/03/14/ubuntu-accomplishments-updates-2/
<j0nr> ello folks
<TheOpenSourcerer> What an amazing image: https://twitter.com/#!/innocentdrinks/status/179849354767638529/photo/1
<j0nr> I currently have my website on a VPS. The people that run the VPS also manage my domain for me... I just pay them once a year a fee and they ensure my domain stays in my name and they point it at my VPS IP.... how can I go about managing this myself?
<TheOpenSourcerer> j0nr: Move your domain to a different registrar.
<TheOpenSourcerer> One that is independent of you hosting compnay
<j0nr> TheOpenSourcerer: So my domain needs a registrar to look after it?
<j0nr> and then I use their services/website to tell it what IP address to go to?
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's a lot easier than managing your own. Yes to Q2.
<TheOpenSourcerer> We have domains with GoDaddy and Easyspace, but any will do - some are better (quicker) at propagating changes or allowing more cnames per A etc. But they all offer a similar service.
<j0nr> So I would have to tell my VPS supplier that I don't need them to manage it anymore, and register with a new registrar..
<TheOpenSourcerer> There is a process you must go through to move the domain registration. Bit like moving your gas or phone provider but keeping the same number.
<diplo> Morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> The one you would like to manage your dns should be able to help you.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all btw.
<j0nr> TheOpenSourcerer: So if I chose say Easyspace would they do the move for me?
<TheOpenSourcerer> j0nr: I have no idea. Ask them.
<diplo> I'll try my question this  morning again
<j0nr> OK, cheers
<diplo> Anyone got *ANY* idea why I can't ping localhost/127.0.0.1 ?
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: but you should have seen the size of the one that got away
<diplo> Web is not helping at all atm
<TheOpenSourcerer> Just in case anyone missed this. It's a totally amazing image: https://twitter.com/#!/innocentdrinks/status/179849354767638529/photo/1/large
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: Yeah.
<TheOpenSourcerer> diplo: Is your localhost responding to pings? Can you ping it's physical port's IP?
<diplo> So this is a VPS, I am ssh'd in and when trying to ping localhost or 127.0.0.1 it fails, but ping6 ::1 works
<diplo> So the lo interface is up
<TheOpenSourcerer> ifconfig?
<diplo> Shows that there has been traffic to lo
<diplo> 1.5mb, but traffic all the same
<TheOpenSourcerer> How about: cat /proc/sys/net/ipv4/icmp_echo_ignore_all ?
<diplo> Set to 1
<TheOpenSourcerer> echo 0 >/proc/sys/net/ipv4/icmp_echo_ignore_all
<TheOpenSourcerer> That should fix it.
 * diplo smooches TheOpenSourcerer !!!! Or maybe just a beer 
<MartijnVdS> why would they set it to 1 though
<diplo> I tried that last night
<TheOpenSourcerer> Dunno.
<diplo> But typed something wrong I guess
<diplo> So could have been me MartijnVdS
<TheOpenSourcerer> Check /etc/sysctl.conf
<TheOpenSourcerer> What OS is the VPS?
<diplo> I was in a state of extremem tiredness last night
<diplo> 10.04
<diplo> #net.ipv4.icmp_echo_ignore_broadcasts = 1
<diplo> #net.ipv4.icmp_ignore_bogus_error_responses = 1
<diplo> ignore_all isn't in there ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> In sysctl.d/ somewhere?
<diplo> kk, looking
<daubers> Morning
<MartijnVdS> grep around _all_ of /etc.. it might be a VPS-hoster custom init script
<TheOpenSourcerer> Or maybe you have some other rule somewhere?
<diplo> Nope for sysctl, trying /etc now
<TheOpenSourcerer> what MartijnVdS says
<diplo> Clean install pretty much but will do
<diplo> I reckon it may be me guys, It wasn't working ( maybe iptables ) and i tried some icmp echo stuff and it didn't fix it, maybe i added the wrong entry.
<diplo> I knew I should have quit earlier
<diplo> ignore_all isn't to be found in any files in /etc
<diplo> So I'd say i foobared it before fixing another issue
<MartijnVdS> kernel boot parameter ( /proc/cmdline )
 * diplo takes the blame
<TheOpenSourcerer> You haven't got Plesk or CPanel on it at all have you?
<diplo> root=LABEL=root ro console=hvc0
<diplo> nah, plain old vps
<diplo> Bitfolk one
<JamesTait> Happy Pi Day! :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> Sounds like it was you then. My Bitfolk VPS is set to 0
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ubuntu 10.04.4 LTS
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: Ï
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS: Since we don't format dates that way in the UK, I considered calling it American Pi Day....
 * TheOpenSourcerer goes for moar coffee.
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: Too bad April only has 30 days.. 31-4 would work
<diplo> TheOpenSourcerer, are you  looking at upgrading to 12.04 ?
<AlanBell> nah, it is just me that upgrades customer production machines to 12.04
<MartijnVdS> \m/ AlanBell  :)
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS: Yeah.  I think 22/7 worked out pretty close....
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: Not-quite-pi-day
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS: Something like that, yes. :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> diplo: Not yet. That box will eol in May anyway I think.
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: ah, getting one of the new Intel Ivy Bridge chips :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> MartijnVdS: Not really - we bought that VPS on a 2yr deal for a customer. It is no longer needed. We are using h/w from Hetzner now that we virtualise ourselves.
<diplo> This is really an experiment for  me / work I guess
<DJones> AlanBell: Do you mind a pm to pick your brains?
<AlanBell> DJones: that sounds more exciting than scanning bank statements, so sure
<hoover> good morning
<jpds> AlanBell: Surely, you can just print them to PDF from online banking?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Interesting graph.. http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1072
<diplo> heh I just read that
<diplo> Trying to talk my company into using Ubuntu server
<TheOpenSourcerer> RPM does suck.
<diplo> Been RH/CentOS for years
<diplo> It really really does!
<diplo> Boss doesn't mind the change, not so sure on the others
<diplo> :(
<hoover> I've found rpm no worse than apt... hey, look, a package war ;-)
<hoover> Esp. with the existence of yum.
<diplo> Yum sucks so badly though
<diplo> It really does
<hoover> restating your opinion doesn't make it more true though ;-)
 * hoover thinks both suck
<diplo> Also having to use third party repos for basic packages is hard work as well
<hoover> apt and yum, that is.
<hoover> diplo: I guess it depends on your needs
<diplo> Didn't restate, I said RPM's sucked before
<diplo> yum sucked after :)
<hoover> hehe
<hoover> Nothing beats pkg-config ;-)
<hoover> j/k
<diplo> My biggest issue is that other people state what they want to use but I end up being the one maintaining / fixing it.
<hoover> Yep, that's always quite a difficult situation to be in.
<christel> good morning -uk
<hoover> Mornin christel
<hoover> diplo: maybe you should tell them to... go away ;-)
<diplo> I'm being diplomatic, close to swapping them over
<diplo> morning christel
<gord> i'm pretty sure that everything that is not what i use is the worst thing in the world
<diplo> :)
<DJones> Can anybody identify what make this "e-reader" is http://www.mightydeals.co.uk/deals/national/Gadgets/7-Inch-E-Book-Reader-with-16GB-memory-49/471?ldid=471&a=2 My wife was looking at it (I know the deal says its ended) but I can't find anything to say what make it is
<DJones> I'm guessing its a far east copy/clone/own brand
<gord> DJones, "Video formats: WMV, RM, AVI, RMVB, 3GP, FLV, MP4, DAT, VOB, MPEG, MKV" - almost certainly some nameless chinese hardware
<DJones> My wife was looking at it as an ebook reader, but I think I would rather get a kobo where I know the name & brand for a little bit extra
<gord> that ebook reader is probably not even eink tbh
<gord> so about an hour battery life
<DJones> I was looking at that, I would rather she gets the basic kobo, that says 10 days battery life, at her reading speed, that'll last about 6 months
<gord> well, ten days ;) it'll still drain power in its standby state
<DJones> :)
<gord> i get a month or so out of my kindle before i have to charge it when i'm not actively using it
<gord> but boasting large battery life if you don't use it isn't really a good selling point, that just means you aren't using it ;)
<DJones> I read about 1-2 hours a day with my kobo, since christmas I've had to charge it 3 times
<DJones> About once a month
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<oimon> guys, is there a fix released for the MS RDP issue or we hae to wait till tuesday?
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> czajkowski: PROD!
<czajkowski> davmor2: HUGS
<davmor2> czajkowski: thanks I could do with that this week :)
<AlanBell> off to London again
<diplo> What a life!
<diplo> :)
<gord> i wonder what kind of boat he will be on this time!
<gord> its like rosie and jim, but with alan and alan
<MartijnVdS> Ship of the line?
<MartijnVdS> dear launchpad.. FASTER PLEASE
<popey> oimon: bug number?
<oimon> popey CVE-2012-0002
<oimon> major RDP issue with MS terminal server affecting all windows versions
<popey> oh, thought you meant it was an ubuntu issue
<popey> meh
<MartijnVdS> Anyone seeing this? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/totem/+bug/954952
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 954952 in totem (Ubuntu) "Scrolling through the playlist with the mouse wheel also skips ahead/back in the current track" [Undecided,New]
<gord> MartijnVdS, scrolling seems broken everywhere atm
<MartijnVdS> gord: scrolling works fine.. but it _also_ does something else
<gord> ah
<oimon> popey, ubuntu do patch tuesday ? :P
<popey> we do patch *day
<popey> which matches tuesday âº
<oimon> it annoys me that there's an epic fail waiting to happen but no patch seems available until tuesday
<oimon> even though it's probably ready
<popey> google says there's a fix
<davmor2> AlanBell: Do you know which is the best medium to contact the A11y team on?
<oimon> is there an equivalent to the sleep  command for DOS?
<popey> yeah, i used to use one
<popey> "back in the day"
<popey> i probably got it from the windows sdk tho
<directhex> usually people use pause, which is "press any key"
<directhex> usual method is to abuse ping.
<directhex> 'PING 1.1.1.1 -n 1 -w 1000 >NUL' adds a 1 second delay, assumign 1.1.1.1 doesn't route
<oimon> heh
<shauno> apparently the 'windows 2003 resource kit' contains a sleep command.  which is possibly even more awkward than just abusing a workaround
<directhex> haha, even better
<directhex> REM | CHOICE /C:AB /T:A,1 > NUL
<directhex> will silently do a multi-select menu, with 1 second timeout
<oimon> it seems that the commands are performed sequentially (i.e. the scp doesn't happen until the net stop is completed), so i'll b e OK
<oimon> using pause at the end  though
<kvarley> How can I enable Ctrl + F4 to close tabs in XUbuntu?
<AlanBell> davmor2: via the mailing list to reach a bunch of users, or find themuso in #ubuntu-accessibility
<davmor2> AlanBell: ta
<oimon> small packet of maryland cookies is about Â£1.50 in sainsburys..2 large packets for 99p in the 99p shop :D
<JGJones> Afternoon - quick question...what's the name of the time/date applet that goes in the upper right corner and how could I reenable it in Unity as it have disappeared.
<gord> JGJones, apt-get install indicator-datetime
<JGJones> Ah that's it, thanks gord
<MartijnVdS> my panel-services keep crashing
<MartijnVdS> so no applets for me :(
<MartijnVdS> [53520.399133] unity-panel-ser[10459]: segfault at 20 ip 00007f43deeadb92 sp 00007fff05346228 error 4 in libglib-2.0.so.0.3120.0[7f43dee33000+f2000]
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: they hate you, hate them back it works for me
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: but I love the clock in the top corner
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: and that's why it gets to walk all over you ;)
<MartijnVdS> :|
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: so you say I still use Ubuntu/Unity because of Stockholm syndrome?
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: No you use Ubuntu cause you can't live without it honest gov'nor :D
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: the alternatives are worse, you mean ;)
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: I was being polite :)
<MartijnVdS> Woo, windmills: http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/6832490192/sizes/o/in/photostream/
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: New and old ones together neat
<meet> any delay function for c++ in ubuntu? or how to include dos.h?
<MartijnVdS> meet: It's just standard C++, and you have the GNU libc
<meet> martijnvds so can i directly use like delay(100) etc?
<MartijnVdS> meet: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4184468/sleep-for-milliseconds
<gord> why are so many people asking about sleep today...
<gord> sleep and dos...
<meet> gord btw i am getting some xinitthread error. trying a simple moving circle project. what could be  the problem?
<davmor2> gord: sleep is obvious, they are tired and as for dos they want to play the original Dune game
<gord> you are calling xinitthread after an xlib call
<gord> or your platform does not support threads
<meet> gord what can i do?
<gord> call xinitthread before your other xlib calls?
<meet> could you please elaborate? i am new to this whole thing a learning c at present.. do i have to include the function in the program?
<gord> something you are calling is calling xinitthread later than it should be, what that call is, i have no idea, i suggest you read the documentation on the methods/functions you are calling to see if any of them state that you should call them early
<meet> btw whta is xinitthread required for?
<gord> lots of things, something you are using i would assume
 * czajkowski hugs davmor2 how ya doing?
<meet> gord how can i do find that out which function is using xinitthread
<gord> meet, read the documentation of the functions you are using
<meet> gord, i think everytime i use the for loop in c, i am getting that error
<gord> then it will be some method you call in the for loop
<meet> gord, there is only one circle function
<gord> ubuntu really needs a shutdown, but wait for this song to finish first, mode
<meet> gord, i think its the usleep function
<gord> it isn't
<meet> ok it ran properly now :) but if at all the problem persists, where should i call the xinitthread function?
<MartijnVdS> meet: read its documentation, it will tell you
<meet> ok thanks :)
 * gord afks
<popey> choo choo
<MartijnVdS> popey: you're not a train.
<popey> i am :)_
<popey> 19:39 from waterloo âº
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A_ccea_hJs
<MartijnVdS> Trains from Gatwick to London end up in Victoria right?
<davmor2> popey: == sl
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: sl -l
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: sl -al if popey is the train I think you'll find
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.hms.xconstruction
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/applications/oneiric/bcs/
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: same thing really :)
<christel> ,3.
<christel> 3
<christel> sorry about that, toddler attack
<Pendulum> christel: is that like a kitten attack, but without the claws?
<davmor2> christel: No excuses at that tender age toddler should be programming ;)
<christel> Pendulum: indeed!
<christel> davmor2: hehe
<davmor2> Pendulum: I don't know kids finger nails can be lethal :)
<czajkowski> peeka boo
 * davmor2 hugs czajkowski whether she likes it or not
<czajkowski> awwww
<czajkowski> such a softie
<davmor2> sometimes I feel like sl -a other time I feel like sl -al but on the whole I feel like sl
<popey> Ebenink
<MartijnVdS> hellos popey
<Myrtti> hm, what tool could I use to try to map some wireless problems? On my Android phone the connection drops every two minutes or so, and my laptop seems to have some connection lag, not quite as bad as my phone where for example the SSH connection goes altogether, but bad enough to make using irssi via ssh painful.
<Myrtti> I suspect the connection drops on the Ubuntu laptop as well, the ssh just recovers better than connectbot does on android
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: really low-level: wi-spy
<dwatkins> Myrtti: I assume you've made certain there's no IP address conflict mentioned in the system logs etc.
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: higher level: check /var/log/syslog
<HazRPG> Myrtti: could also try WiFi Analyse on the android
<dwatkins> On Android, I use this: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.farproc.wifi.analyzer&hl=en
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins++ -- that's a great tool
<dwatkins> :)
<HazRPG> dwatkins: jink ^_^
<dwatkins> HazRPG: hehe
<Myrtti> yeah I use that too but so far I've used it mainly to choose a non-used channel
<HazRPG> s/jink/jynx/* even
<Myrtti> I'll have a look, thanks for suggestions
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: \o
<Myrtti> this is a bit annoying and it's  been annoying me since fiancÃ© got a new router
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: \o hey-yo!
<dwatkins> Myrtti: do you have the problem only via wifi?
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: the router could be a DOA / almost-DOA / pining for the fjords
<HazRPG> Myrtti: What router did he get?
<dwatkins> A friend of mine lives in an apartment building where someone has 1024 SSIDs being transmitted from their router.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: annoying
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: I imagine so, yes
<Myrtti> HazRPG: Belkin Gigabit something, Belkin play max
<Myrtti> I have to say my experience with Belkin Wireless devices has made an addition to the makes of network gear I will not purchase again.
<dsample> Belkin wasn't my preference, it was just one of the only ones with gigabit
<Myrtti> and wohey, the devil appears when he's spoken about
<Myrtti> :-P
<HazRPG> Myrtti: bah, hate belkins
<Myrtti> yeah, so do I, now.
<dwatkins> Myrtti: do you have another router you could swap-out to make certain the router is at fault?
<dsample> I've always considered Belkin as a cheap quality brand, but nowadays they're not cheap priced
<HazRPG> dsample: agreed
<dsample> We have another router, a Linksys one, but the crap wifi on that was the reason we got the new one
<HazRPG> dsample: best way that I do it for gigabit ... think of it this way, your internet isn't going to be a gigabit, so why have a router do that job when a switch can do that for you...
<dsample> I know it's not, I suggested multiple boxes
<Myrtti> aw
<HazRPG> so I tend to do the whole "good router, don't care much for specs as long as its configs is nice and varied so I can sit and tweak to my hearts content" and then a gigabit switch
<dsample> modem+AP
<Myrtti> I'm not taking the blame for this
<Myrtti> darnit.
<dwatkins> I have a gigabit switch between my media devices, the internet isn't anywhere near that fast, so I don't plug anything fast into the router directly.
 * MartijnVdS 's whole house is gbit
<MartijnVdS> in preparation of the 500/500 fibre that's coming (in july!!)
<dsample> The annoying thing with doing that though is it was pretty hard to find an AP, seemed near impossible to find an N+ AP with gigabit (although it would be stupid for an N+ AP not to have gigabit)
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: whatever the speed of your connectm, NASA will still probably be one of the few sites which might come close to taking full advantage ;)
<dsample> the option seemed to be to get a 'cable' router to connect to the modem, but they're as bad as the ADSL routers
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: Uploading to youtube/flickr will be my main use of the upstream bit
<dsample> 500/500 fibre... WTF do you live... I want to move?
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: maybe backups of my NAS (to an identical system at my parents)
<MartijnVdS> dsample: Netherlands :)
<dsample> oh
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: ah, that is a good reason to have a fast pipe, if your backup is on the same network segment :)
<dsample> well that's a bit far, was hoping within 100 miles
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: it's better than the 1mbit up I have now anyway
<HazRPG> dwatkins: that's what I do ^_^
<dwatkins> HazRPG: sorry, what do you do?
<MartijnVdS> 500/500 kilobit/second :P
<dwatkins> meh, I have a T1 at work ;)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: I have.. the internet.. at work
<dwatkins> hehe
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: (working at an ISP)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: 500/500 o.O!
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: yes, I know!
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Dude... I seriously gotta move to the NL.
<dwatkins> hmm, perhaps it's a T3, it's whatever gives us about 50 MBit
<MartijnVdS> Maybe 100/100 at first, but there's an upgrade to 500/500 "before the end of 2012"
<MartijnVdS> too bad the routers we sell/give to customers don't cope with 500/500 :)
<dsample> Just brought up the thinkbroadband 'quality monitor' graph for our connection
<dsample> http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/c2aee9ff21f533ce58ddc64f698e986f-14-03-2012.html
<dsample> you can see when we got home this evening
<dsample> now to see if the Belkin tools give anything similar for connected machines... doubt it
<dwatkins> http://hobbes.dyndns.org/vnstat/ is handy
<popey> it is!
<popey> http://popey.com/bandwidth/
<dwatkins> nifty, popey - what are the stats gathered with?
<dwatkins> i.e. does it just grab the tx/rx from the ifconfig output?
<dwatkins> oh right, it's got vnstat on the back-end, handy
<popey> whats yours done with?
<dwatkins> popey: vnstat generates three PNG files each time it updates, I just put them onto a HTML page, as inspired by someone on #ubuntu-offtopic, iirc
<dwatkins> at least I think that's what it does, I can never find the relevant part of the config
<HazRPG> popey: yeah, I think its just a standard output from vnstat
<HazRPG> (or one of)
<HazRPG> popey: http://humdi.net/vnstat/coloredit/
<Myrtti> http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/6983139433/ :-| me pinging 192.168.0.1
<popey> crud
<popey> left my thinkpad charger at millbank
<dwatkins> Myrtti: some friends of mine discovered that a faulty powersupply (on a scanner) was causing EMF interference and messing up their router, have you considered turning everything non-essential off and powering things up one-by-one?
<gordonjcp> dwatkins: I've come across that
<gordonjcp> certain cheap crappy switched-mode PSUs that have RFI extending well out beyond the GHz range
<dwatkins> that might explain the cyclical nature of Myrtti's problem, if it's a combination of frequencies building up and reducing down again over several seconds
<Myrtti> hm
<dsample> dwatkins: oh eck, that sounds a bit hard to do... there's about a dozen plugs around the back of the TV
<dsample> although I think only the router and printer are turned on
<dwatkins> dsample: I know the feeling, if I had to do it, I'd just power off everything after cleanly shutting down the linux box
<Myrtti> the only linux box is my Viglen, the res is collection of gaming consoles and a fruit box.
<dwatkins> i.e. pull the plug on the lot
<dwatkins> I hear Forrest Gump invested in some fruit company.
<Myrtti> yeah, that one.
<Myrtti> I might just do that tomorrow on a particularly dark moment. Pull the plugs, that is.
<dwatkins> I can't guarantee it will allow you to fix the problem, but at least you'll be able to say whether the other devices are interfering (one way or another)
<gordonjcp> dwatkins: I still have some recordings of interference I was logging from a neighbour's house
<gordonjcp> never did find out what it was, they moved out
<gordonjcp> but it was a pulsing interference, about 1 second on, 1 second off, for most of the day, and absolutely flat from about 500kHz to 250MHz
<dwatkins> gordonjcp: I hear plasma TVs can kill an ADSL connection
<gordonjcp> dwatkins: wouldn't be surprised
<dwatkins> gordonjcp: was this interference on 24 hours a day?
<gordonjcp> those ethernet-over-mains adaptors are a bit horrible too
<gordonjcp> dwatkins: no, strangely enough it wasn't but it only seemed to stop between about 2am and 6am
<dwatkins> yeah, I must admit to having a pair of those, although I should probably have gotten a wifi extender instead.
<gordonjcp> some are okay, but many of them interfere quite badly with radio
<gordonjcp> I did discover that a neighbour of mine had a pair that seemed to have big significant peaks in their noise right in the middle of all the HF amateur bands
<gordonjcp> funny thing though
<dwatkins> what do you use to measure this interference?
<gordonjcp> spectrum analyser and a couple of test receivers
<gordonjcp> if I fired up on 7.039MHz for some PSK31 for a while, the interference went away
<gordonjcp> almost like they'd given up trying to get the bastards to work and turned them off... ;-)
<dwatkins> wow, they televised Dirk Gently :D
<dwatkins> I wonder if you actually overloaded a circuit in something that just happened to resonate at that frequency, like my friend's power supply
<dwatkins> anyhoo, it's bedtime here in deepest Edinburgh, later folks :)
<gordonjcp> dwatkins: well I figure if their mains wiring was working as a good enough aerial to transmit (illegally), it would receive just as well too
<gordonjcp> but rather than a piddly little transformer the size of a tangerine and some mismatched mains cable, I can chuck 100W out into a properly resonant aerial
<shockham> rekong
#ubuntu-uk 2012-03-15
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ubuntu UK Podcast] S05E02  Raspberry Jam - http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2012/03/14/s05e02-raspberry-jam/
<imexil> Morning, am I the only one experiencing compiz to crash everytime I do right-click in 12.04 ?
<christel> morning
<diplo> morning
<christel> diplo \o/
<christel> for some reason i always read your nick as duplo and then i want to play with you :s
<christel> oh gosh, that came out sounding a tad corny, sorry
<diplo> \o/ Playing with me :)
<diplo> heheh
<christel> hehe
<diplo> My skype is duplo :)
<diplo> And a few other things where diplo was taken
<christel> haha
<christel> :D
<diplo> Favourite choccie bars are duplos to, hmm nick change time  :)
<diplo> Or not, seems someone else likes it :(
<christel> aww :(
<christel> ah but they havent identified for a year!
<christel> so if whomever currently uses it disconnects ...
<christel> :P
<diplo> Well had diplo for the last 15 years, might take some remembering to get change
<christel> hehe
<diplo> Been rather quiet in here lately
<christel> it is a tad quiet :(
<AlanBell> MORNING!!
<MartijnVdS> So.. "unsettings".. use or not?
<diplo> Good morning AlanBell
 * diplo is not sure what MartijnVdS is asking :)
<christel> GOOD MORNING ALANBELL
 * diplo glad not got a hangover this morning with all this shouting!
<MartijnVdS> diplo: http://www.webupd8.org/2012/03/unsettings-tool-to-disable-global-menu.html
<diplo> Hmm, I may give up typing today
<christel> haha
<christel> it's really cold today
<hoover> morning all
<diplo> Radiator on 5 @ work :)
<hoover> nice and sunny here
<hoover> but only 3degs
<christel> we've thick, cold fog
<christel> though if it lifts i guess it could still turn out to be a nice day
<christel> :)
<diplo> tbh MartijnVdS I've starting getting used to most of the options now
<diplo> I like the global menu sort of, prefer win7 style though, smaller icons/size etc
<MartijnVdS> \o/ found the bug
<MartijnVdS> Disable global menus = forever crashing unity-panel-service
<MartijnVdS> in a loop
<hoover> it's already rather warm in the sun... spring is coming fast
<diplo> Sun hoover ? What sun :)
<MartijnVdS> â« But there's one thing that makes spring complete for me
<MartijnVdS> â« And makes ev'ry Sunday a treat for me
<MartijnVdS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNA9rQcMq00 :)
<hoover> That large, yellow ball of fire in the sky ;-)
 * hoover declares spring has started when the first song thrush arrives
<hoover> I've already heard a few sing this week
<MartijnVdS> hoover: "Thrush is a yeast infection of the mucus membrane lining the mouth and tongue.", according to le google
<MartijnVdS> hoover: I heard (and saw) a woodpecker pecking at a metal pole a few days ago :)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MartijnVdS> \o bigcalm
<bigcalm> What's happening?
<czajkowski> must stop doing fn f4 instead of fn 4 as thats volume and the otherone shuts machine down
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: :D
<bigcalm> Whoops
<JamesTait> Morning all! :D
<christel> morning JamesTait :)
<JamesTait> christel: o/
<Myrtti> ho hum. http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/6984249525
<AlanBell> that is a lot of miliseconds
<gord> started to realise that i can actually just suspend my desktop machine at the end of the day, not shut down. old fears of linux not working are silly
<Myrtti> I am getting tired
<bigcalm> I can't suspend mine. If I tell the machine to do anything like that, it reboots
<bigcalm> If I tell it to shutdown, it reboots as well
<bigcalm> Rebooting does as required though
<JamesTait> Mine will suspend if I tell it to, now I've added acpi_sleep=nonvs to the boot options; but it currently won't suspend when I close the laptop lid.
<JamesTait> Actually, the laptop indicated that it suspended even without that boot option, but when it came to resume, it did a full boot instead.
<popey> gord: thats what I do too
<zleap> on http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2012/03/14/s05e02-raspberry-jam-ogg/  where is the download link ?
<AlanBell> right click and save as
<zleap> where
<AlanBell> zleap: ah, right, in the broken grey fuzzy bar thing
<zleap> ok got it
<zleap> under subscribe
<AlanBell> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/download/uupc_s05e02.ogg
<zleap> as opposed to download
<zleap> its downloading
<zleap> thankjs
<AlanBell> popey: there is something broken there
<zleap> thanks
<zleap> i need to set up rhytmbox again for auto download
<AlanBell> zleap: http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/ boxes work find on the home page
<AlanBell> and they now work fine on the article :)
<zleap> thanks
<zleap> do i add that url to rhythmbox:?
<AlanBell> you can add http://feeds.feedburner.com/UbuntuUkPodcastOgg-high?format=xml to rhythmbox
<zleap> thanks
<zleap> i just need to find where rhythmbox has hidden itsselfd now
<AlanBell> in unity3d has resizing windows just got massively hard again?
<AlanBell> single pixel target rather than the whole shadow?
<zleap> ok think i have it
<popey> zleap: you're on the wrong page
<popey> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2012/03/14/s05e02-raspberry-jam-ogg/ is not a link you should end up at
<zleap> i get there from the link i get in firefox
<popey> what link?
<popey> how exactly did you arrive at that page?
<zleap> firefox has podcast on a tab, click on that i get a link to the page of what ever episode is listed
<zleap> so it lists load of em, its auto updated
<popey> what do you mean by "podcast on a tab"?
<popey> take me (with links) from how you woke up this morning to how you got to that page please
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: there are lots of regressions in Unity
<AlanBell> if it is a button in the bookmarks toolbar can you right click it, go to properties and say what the feed location is
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<popey> zleap: I want to fix this but I dont know how people end up at that page, so dont know how to
<zleap> in firefox I have buttons at the top on is for latest headlines, withj some sort of orange and white symbol next to it,  i have a similar one for ubuntu podcasrts
<zleap> casts
<zleap> don't know how i got itl, or what its called,  rss feed perhaps
<AlanBell> it is the bookmarks toolbar
<popey> can you modify the link?
<popey> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/ is the best page to go to
<zleap> feedburner
<zleap> feedlocation is http://feeds.feedburner.com/UbuntuUkPodcastOgg-high?format=xml
<popey> right, thats why
<zleap> ah
<zleap> so that is some sort of bug then
<popey> just bookmark http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/ or http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/feed/
<popey> no
<zleap> ok
<popey> I just dont know how you got that url in your bookmark bar
<zleap> well i added the feedburner
<zleap> it was on there,  it updates each release
<zleap> but clearly not in the way it should
<davmor2> Morning all you funky funky people
<bigcalm> Hiya Dave2
<bigcalm> And hello davmor2
<davmor2> bigcalm: Hey dude how's life?
<bigcalm> Very busy and relaxing inbetween
<bigcalm> Only working Monday and Thursday this week
<bigcalm> How do?
<christel> so unfair!
<bigcalm> christel: I know, I wanted the whole week off
<christel> haha
<christel> :P
<gord> always enjoyable when i get windows viruses sent to my @canonical.com address
<bigcalm> Do you load them in wine?
<gord> they never work :(
<gord> wine isn't compatible enough with windows exploits
<jpds> Sounds like a feature.
<directhex> you can guarantee if there's a virus needing a windows feature, there's a legit windows app using the same feature
<directhex> no matter how sick & wrong
<oimon> tomboy notes not syncing with u1 from my laptop...any ideas?
<jpds> oimon: tail -f .cache/ubuntuone/log/syncdaemon.log
<oimon> jpds, nothing in there - is the tomboy web service something different?
<jpds> oimon: â #ubuntuone
<oimon> :D
<popey> tomboy doesnt use that sync though does it?
<popey>  .config/tomboy/tomboy.log
<popey> also close tomboy and then open it with "tomboy --debug" and see what it says
<oimon> thanks, i'll try
<oimon> popey, it's a bug (in progress)
<popey> bug number?
<popey> oh that one
<popey> yes, I have that
<oimon> 848250
<oimon> unfortunately cannot file on the server side now that notes are removed from u1 now
<popey> I dont understand? "file on the server side"?
<czajkowski> oimon: do you mean you cant access them via the web any more ?
<czajkowski> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/02/ubuntu-one-notes-feature-written-off/
<oimon> czajkowski, they disabled that feature afaik
<popey> you can workaround the bug
<popey> i have had to numerous times
<popey> i have never done a workaround on the website, always locally
<oimon> i get the issue that comment 12 has.
<oimon> cannot proceed forward
<czajkowski> oimon: have you asked in ubuntuone
 * popey points czajkowski to the scrollback in #ubuntuone
<popey> oimon: I'd just edit the file manually
<czajkowski> popey: ah sorry small scroll back
<daubers> Afternoon
 * daubers waits for the train to take him home
<popey> \o/ Jabber
<MattJ> Jabber \o/
<daubers> Jabber \o/
<MattJ> \o/
<diplo> Jabber \o/ ?
<diplo> :)
<MattJ> Jabber \o/
<MattJ> http://matthewwild.co.uk/uploads/jabber.png
<MattJ> 2008
<AlanBell> one day I will work out how to use jabber
<MattJ> As a user? or run a server?
<AlanBell> either
<daubers> AlanBell: Do you use google talk?
<MattJ> With the kind of people I help out there, I'm quite sure you're capable of using it :)
<AlanBell> I did get facebook working on it http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2010/02/11/using-facebook-xmpp-chat-on-ubuntu/
<MattJ> Well if you can get Facebook's bizarre flavour working, nothing else could be harder really
<AlanBell> I use google plus, which I think includes google talk
<MattJ> Yes
<MattJ> You can just put your Gmail address and password into any XMPP client
<AlanBell> ok, then what?
<MattJ> Then? It's an IM client - you see who is online, and send and receive messages :)
<AlanBell> yeah, but where is the cross-server stuff?
<AlanBell> and rooms and things?
<MattJ> You can add people with their gmail address, or any XMPP service (except Facebook who like to remain closed off)
<AlanBell> so how do I add people from a server that isn't google?
<MattJ> Same as you add someone who is on Google, with their address
<MattJ> Mine is me@matthewwild.co.uk
<MattJ> You don't really have to care where it's hosted
<MattJ> It's like asking how to email someone who isn't on Gmail
<MattJ> Which just serves to highlight the absurdity of closed IM networks (which are thankfully becoming fewer)
<AlanBell> doesn't appear to have worked
<MattJ> What did you do?
<AlanBell> add contact
<AlanBell> put me@matthewwild.co.uk in the identifier and mattj in the alias
<AlanBell> I see no contact in the list
<MattJ> You're logged into a gmail.com account? what client are you using?
<AlanBell> empathy
<AlanBell> the identifiers for other people are big long strings @public.talk.google.com
<MartijnVdS> those are mostly G+ people I think?
<AlanBell> probably
<MartijnVdS> Since G+ my GTalk list has increased a lot
<MattJ> Yeah, Google added a hack to get people using G+ onto XMPP without using their real address
<AlanBell> I don't think I have ever added anyone, they just turned up through g+ or gmail that I used for a few weeks
<diplo> yeah google turned it on a few months ago
<diplo> Wasn't on at default
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/empathy.png does it look like that when you hover over someone normally?
<MattJ> Looks normal
<AlanBell> white on light grey with a big fat border isn't very pretty
<MattJ> Oh, the styling
<MattJ> I can't speak for Empathy as a client, as much as I love the developers :)
<MattJ> I haven't used it for a long time
<directhex> nah, the empathy developers are clearly evil people
<diplo> AlanBell, I'd say that empathy isn't using your theme correctly
<diplo> Mine is all dark
<AlanBell> I will set it up on another computer
<popey> http://ubuntuone.com/2Bb6OJOS53QpA7FKOnhtYW
<popey> thats what it looks like here
<AlanBell> um, hover over your empathy client
<popey> you're on 2d?
<popey> i was
<AlanBell> oh, sorry
<diplo> Mine looks the same as popey's
<AlanBell> I had my empathy on top of your screenshot :)
<popey> I'm on unity, you on unity 2d?
<AlanBell> unity 3d
<popey> haha
<AlanBell> ok, works fine on another computer
<AlanBell> still can't add contacts
<diplo> See I have you and TheOpenSourcerer in G+
<diplo> and popey
<diplo> But.. I only see popey and TheOpenSourcerer on chat
<diplo> I thought it added everyone ?
<popey> AlanBell: http://ubuntuone.com/4mwlF1D66T4ahfoIQt1bU6
<MartijnVdS> I have the same content in GMail, G+, and GTalk on my phone and tablet
<MartijnVdS> Works great.. except sometimes my phone beeps when I'm talking to someone on the PC
<diplo> yeah i had that last night :)
<AlanBell> I miss being able to resize windows :(
<MattJ> Heh, I've not been able to resize windows since long before unity - I use a tiling window manager
<christel> pfft i cant find anyone called diplo on g+!
<christel> (well, i can -- but unlikely candidates)
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/empathy1.png http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/empathy2.png on two different machines popey
<diplo> andy partington christel :)
 * christel stalks
<diplo> heh
<popey> AlanBell: different versions?
<diplo> And I see why I dont see you now AlanBell, you have to be in each others circles for it to be listed.. quite understandable now i think about it :)
<AlanBell> popey: no, both 12.04, the cleaner install didn't pick up the ubuntu theme or something, so didn't have the bubbly text
<christel> AlanBell: i think we need to pub, very soon
<christel> this sun lark is making me dream of pub gardens
<diplo> Sun?!!?
<diplo> We still have fog
<diplo> Albeit a trip to the pub sounds fun / enjoyable
<diplo> May not come back to work though :)
<christel> aw! the fog lifted and made way for the sun here! :D
<diplo> Send some up this way
<christel> you can come here and share it!
<bigcalm> That makes no sense if you miss-read that as frog
<christel> ribbit./
<diplo> If you live near the Alans it's a bit of a trip :)
<christel> hehe
<christel> i do! when we go out i go by the name Alan Fake
<christel> to fit in with the Alan fourlettersurname thing
<jpds> christel: The four Alans with four letter surnames.
<diplo> heh
<popey> four letters and one syllable
<gord> the bringers of Armageddon
<gord> Alangeddon*
<jpds> popey: One syllable for all letters ?
<bigcalm> Pope, Bell, Lord
<AlanBell> pub lunch sounds like a good plan
<popey> \o/ pub
<popey> when?
 * diplo asks the four letter surname people to find another channel to talk about pubs :(
<MartijnVdS> diplo: you mean the Alans? :)
<diplo> oh yes christel was in with a Alan the fake aswell so both :)
<christel> AlanBell: have you eaten? or are you up for PUB LUNCH NOW? :) (we should also do our pub crawl so popey can come play!)
<bigcalm> Write off the rest of the day ;)
<popey> hah, i can't
<davmor2> bigcalm: don't you do that most mornings? ;)
<popey> work then I'm off to Aldershot to see a comedy thing
<christel> comedy.. in aldershot?!
<davmor2> popey: is a thing like a show?
<christel> i thought the place was dead
<bigcalm> davmor2: oh meow!
<christel> popey: ok! we shall have to pick another pubcrawl day!
<christel> bigcalm: i'd be delighted to write off the rest of the day, i am working on a dreadful project
<davmor2> bigcalm: I meant that you were so good at your job you'd completed your days work in the morning :P  Honest Gov'nor
<bigcalm> Haha
<popey> http://www3.hants.gov.uk/westendcentre
<popey> going there, to see him
<christel> ooh
<AlanBell> christel: I have eaten today
<AlanBell> christel: tomorrow might be a possibility
<christel> i am all for that!
<gord> does anyone know what the point of marking mail as junk in thunderbird is?
<gord> i mean it adds a little icon, but that seems to be it
<dwatkins> I suspect it trains it.
<davmor2> gord: have a look at the rules for it,  I don't think it is setup to auto move it to bin/spam
<gord> trains it to do what? add more icons to more mails?
<dwatkins> http://kb.mozillazine.org/Junk_Mail_Controls#Training_the_Junk_Mail_Controls this I guess
<dwatkins> I don't know how it helps, but I imagine it makes it more likely to treat similar messages as spam.
<dwatkins> unfortunately the one link on that page I wanted to bollow is broken.
<popey> chaps
<daubers> o/
<popey> cheap 1080p monitor suggestions?
<daubers> popey: TV :)
<popey> you just reminded me I have an old TV!
<daubers> \o/
<MartijnVdS> Old enough to have HDMI? :)
<popey> yup
<popey> huzzah
<gord> anything that is 1080p is likely to just be a repackaged monitor anyway ;)
<popey> "thanks"
<popey> its a goodmans tv
<popey> really crap
<gord> uh repackaged tv even
<popey> it'll do
<gord> i'm not good words today
<gord> keep trying to skip the track on this internet radio station, not working
<bigcalm> Watch out for that "over-scan" :)
 * daubers waits for OSX to reinstall over the intertubes
<MartijnVdS> EVIL EVIL TV manufacturers
<MartijnVdS> perpetuating "overscan" in a digital age
<popey> ENOMOUSE
<gord> to watch the sweedish eurovision finals with some friends on the weekend i had to use my tv as a second monitor for my laptop, everything just worked :) was a quite nice experience
<gord> apart from flash, had to use firebug to delete all the elements of the streaming website apart from the flash player, then resize the flash player to make it close to fullscreen =\
<popey> hmm, 1440x900
<popey> that'll do
<bigcalm> The scooter that just buzzed past really fitted in with the dub-step I'm listening to
<bigcalm> Needs moar scooter
<popey> put a donk on it
<oimon> seen the "anonymous OS" story? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17381214
<oimon> just noticed the ubuntu twitter feed thing in the 12.04 installer.
<Myrtti> tralalalala
<MartijnVdS> oimon: AnonymOS
<MartijnVdS> http://i.imgur.com/yc8Kx.jpg
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: No, I'm not your Daddy either :P
<oimon> anyone experience an issue when installing 12.04 and it appears to no be doing anything?
<oimon> been installing for half hr
<oimon> no activity since something ending in cron.hourly (can't rsize the window)
<oimon> tempted to press skip
<MartijnVdS> Time to filet some bugs!
<oimon> so many ubuntu bugs experienced today i dunno where to start
<MartijnVdS> on launchpad :P
<oimon> not sure if slow USB stick or something else
<Adriannom> lo.  which firewall do most ubuntu users use in xp? ;)
<dwatkins> Adriannom: If I'm running Ubuntu, I'm not running XP.
<oimon> :-\
<dwatkins> I tend to use the XP firewall (XP sp 2 onwards) though
<Adriannom> thanks dwatkins, was looking
<Adriannom> oops.  was looking for something a bit more secure
<Adriannom> i got erroneous answers from asking in windows channels, so please forgive the offtopic :|
<oimon> apparently the huge length of time during the install of the beta realtes to removal of language packs :S
<dwatkins> Adriannom: I don't know of there being any particular security holes in the Windows built-in firewall.
<dwatkins> Asking questions in the windows channels is like walking down the street shouting them, in my experience ;)
<Adriannom> dwatkins, it doesn't protect from outbound connections
<Adriannom> lol
<dwatkins> Adriannom: I don't believe that's true
<Adriannom> dwatkins, it didn't stop a single outbound connection for me, sp3
<oimon> i thought it was inbound only too
<Adriannom> also, offending software is not listed in the firewall
<dwatkins> perhaps you have to turn that on, I don't know, Adriannom
<oimon> or did they add that functionality in another sp?
<Adriannom> i already looked
<Adriannom> it's not there
<dwatkins> http://rogerkar.blogspot.com/2009/05/outbound-connections-windows-firewall.html
<Adriannom> anyway, xp also lets any software add itself to the firewall, heh.  unless you are not running as admin, which is hard with xp
<Adriannom> looking
<dwatkins> oh you're using XP, Adriannom
<Adriannom> yup
<dwatkins> what do you want to block/control?
<oimon> anyone know if canonical will split the software centre up into magazines/apps/etc? fed up getting matches on ubuntu user magazine for software searches
<Adriannom> found comodo anyway, supposed to be good
<Adriannom> dwatkins, anything i want to run in xp i generally don't trust
<AlanBell> oimon: ask davmor2
<dwatkins> Adriannom: there's zonealarm, but I don't know if it's still developed
<Adriannom> dwatkins, if comodo fails i'll try zonealarm
<Adriannom> thanks :)
<davmor2> oimon: already is in 12.04 but it will still show up under a general search
<dwatkins> if I run something in XP, I kinda feel I have to trust it.
<popey> bah
<Adriannom> if only we didn't need it at all
 * bigcalm tickles popey
<oimon> davmor2, i'm on 12.04 here, can i tune the general search results at all?
<davmor2> popey: that is the worst impression of scrooge I've ever seen it's bah, Humbug!
<davmor2> oimon: nope
<davmor2> oimon: if you go into a section it will only search that section that's about as refined as it gets
<davmor2> oimon: the other way is to use the applications lens to find apps maybe
<oimon> hmm :-\
<oimon> i could disable "for purchase" i suppose
<diplo> Zonealarm NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
<popey> oimon: you'd still see full circle magazine
<oimon> :(
<popey> one moment
<oimon> they seem to have huge amount of meta dta for matching
<Adriannom> diplo, point taken
<diplo> I was hoping so :)
<diplo> You got stuff you're worried about outbound ?
<diplo> Could monitor it with wireshark or something for a while
<diplo> I've never really been that worried about out bound
<Adriannom> i think comodo is working
<diplo> From memory comodo was quite good in the past
<Adriannom> maybe i am being overly paranoid
<Adriannom> either way, it's done now so i don't have to worry :P
<oimon> i always worry with windows
<diplo> I don't
<diplo> But then again I don't install much
<popey> what are we worrying about?
<bigcalm> Windows, I think
<oimon> i generally worry about typing any of my passwords into a windows machine
<oimon> especially after seeing what the latest password stealing trojans do with banking websites
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod!
<czajkowski> davmor2: ello ello
<davmor2> czajkowski: how's life?
<DJones> bigcalm: If you don't mind me asking, how much did you pay for your Xoom? Just noticed them on sale for Â£279
<popey> bug 956208
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 956208 in unity (Ubuntu) "Screen corruption on AMD with Radeon driver" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/956208
<bigcalm> DJones: 249 from the carphone warehouse
<DJones> Thanks
<bigcalm> 279 is also a good price
<bigcalm> DJones: where have you seen them for 279?
<DJones> would you believe currys
<bigcalm> Ta
<DJones> http://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/motorola-xoom-tablet-pc-32gb-09752543-pdt.html?intcmp=currys_seg_s1_tablets_motorla-xoom_652928_04_2012444
<DJones> Same price as the samsung tablet
<DJones> Galaxy 8.9HD 16Gb is priced the same
<bigcalm> I <3 my Xoom
<DJones> How well does it work with Ubuntu (connectivity etc), something I read about the xoom 2 said they wouldn't connect to anything except Windows
<bigcalm> I haven't bothered to connect my tablet to anything
<bigcalm> Haven't felt the need
<bigcalm> Just pinged that URL over to my Dad. He appears to be asleep again though
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jonathan Riddell] Kubuntu Active is Activated - http://blogs.kde.org/node/4544
<Guest5630> Hello all - Quick question, I seem to have lost all sound on my toshiba satelite laptop which is running ubuntu 11.10.  Ive checked that nothing is muted and all the volume levels are high and there are no headphones or anything like that plugged in.  Can anyone help?
<dwatkins> Guest5630: does it do this from a clean start?
<Guest5630> dwatkins - I noticed it last night and ive booted from cold today and yes, its the same
<Guest5630> I dont usually have volume on so ive not noticed it before
<dwatkins> Guest5630: did it work before okay? What's changed since then?
<Guest5630> It worked last time I used sound - used it a few weeks ago to watch a dvd in VLC, though wanted to watch youtube last night and there was no sound at all - volume levels were all up, nothing muted etc, so put it down to a random odd glitch though same again tonight from cold.  Nothing in youtube, VLC or anything else I can think of which would use sound
<dwatkins> You might have to see what's grabbing the device from start, this could help: http://askubuntu.com/questions/25622/my-sound-stopped-working-today-how-can-i-fix-it
<Guest5630> Ok thanks - I will have a look!
<dwatkins> welcome
<zleap> hello
<popey> AlanBell: what day are you going to Alcatraz?
<zleap> i wanna go to redmond, WA and take a photo of tux out side the microsoft HQ :D
<bigcalm> It's been done: http://tctechcrunch2011.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/linux-world-domination.jpg
<bigcalm> Of sorts
<zleap> ok why can't ubuntu find my printer, when i know its connected
<zleap> lol
<zleap> it has a printer driver installed and now says printer may not be connected,
<zleap> to confuse matters more, it also says no ink, which is odd if it says printer isn't connected how can it also say printer has no ink left
<andylockran> howdy all
<AlanBell> popey: sunday morning
<AlanBell> 9 am
<AlanBell> https://www.alcatrazcruises.com/ChooseTicket.aspx?id=702&date=05-06-2012&time=9%3a10+am
#ubuntu-uk 2012-03-16
<popey> AlanBell: tempted
<popey> i think I am out for the day on saturday so getting up for a 9am tour is going to be fun
<AlanBell> yeah, I will be flying in on the saturday so basically crashing as soon as I get to the hotel I booked in SF chinatown
<AlanBell> then up really early due to timezones so doing some touristy stuff, then relocating to Oakland with Pendulum
<Devirati> #list
<MartijnVdS> http://i.imgur.com/hYnNl.jpg
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] First Additional Accomplishments Set - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/03/16/first-additional-accomplishments-set/
<astromech> Gooof moownin
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yet more total awesomeness from #Grapheneâ¦ High-performance, small & flexible capacitors [batteries]: http://is.gd/Tgka7i via
<TheOpenSourcerer> I see Ubuntu has a new, and probably unwelcome, offspring: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17381214
<AlanBell> morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning
<AlanBell> gord: did you see HUD accessibility is being written off for precise?
<hoover> bood morning folks
<daubers> Morning
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> I'm on holiday today, so I've no idea why I'm in my office
<DJones> bigcalm: To play Minecraft on the "work" computer
<christel> good morning lovelies
<feisar> good morning
<feisar> I have a good day at work ahead of me today, Ubuntu server 12.04 set up and ready to begin developing a site using Opencart
<christel> :)
<bigcalm> Good morning darling christel :)
<christel> helllooo bigcalm :D
<christel> whatcha up to?
<bigcalm> christel: bugger all :D
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Friday! :D
<bigcalm> christel: I have no idea what to do with my day
<bigcalm> Good morning JamesTait and thank you
<christel> aww
<christel> come to farnham and have lunch with me and AlanBell!
<AlanBell> ah yes, lunch :)
<bigcalm> Heh
<popey> AlanBell: where'd you see that? (HUD a11y)
<bigcalm> christel: so very tempting, bit of a drive sadly
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: up for a pub lunch in Farnham?
<JamesTait> bigcalm: Me too!
<christel> bigcalm: pffft! we're so worth it!
<AlanBell> popey: luke posted it to the accessibility list, I replied and copied in unity-design
<feisar> anyone know the best way to get MariaDB on 12.04?
 * bigcalm tickles christel 
<TheOpenSourcerer> Probly not AlanBell, as much as I would like to... Have a lot to do today.
<popey> ah, got it
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<AlanBell> christel: I have a parcel arriving between 12:56 - 13:56 which is a bit of a pain
<AlanBell> and a customer call at 14:30
<christel> mmm -- we could do next week sometime if that's easier? maybe lord can tag along one day next week?
<christel> (or we could do an evening next week and popey could come play?)
<bigcalm> Oh, my parents are coming to visit for a few hours. That'll be nice
 * bigcalm panics and hunts for the hoover
<christel> haha
<popey> i have parcels arriving today too
<bigcalm> ipad3?
<s-fox> Hello.
<oimon> anyone know a fix for the bug in software centre in lucid where clicking install doesn't do anything?
<oimon> ah it appears that running gksu software-center is a workaround
<davmor2> Morning all
<s-fox> Hello davmor2
<s-fox> How are you?
<davmor2> s-fox: tired, happy it's Friday, and overwhelming happy that it's prod czajkowski time of day :)  And you?
<czajkowski> davmor2: gooooooooooooooooooooood morning
<christel> haha
<s-fox> davmor2,  Slowly getting better thank you :-)
<s-fox> Hello christel & czajkowski  :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: you forgot the Vietnam off the end of that I think you'll find ;)  shortly followed up by It's "o" 600  and what the "o" stand for OMG it's early :)
<christel> heya s-fox :)
<s-fox> How are you christel ?
<christel> i am well! thyself? :)
<christel> well, i am procrastinating which is not so good!
<czajkowski> davmor2: watched that only 2 weeks ago
<czajkowski> it was great!
<davmor2> christel: you're actively attached shells to yourself......oh wait that would be pro-crustation
<davmor2> czajkowski: it is a good film for quotes
<christel> haha
<s-fox>  christel I am stomping on spambots on the ubuntu forums. They go crunch ;)
<christel> hehe
 * nothingspecial is too
<s-fox> Anyone know any accounts worth following on twitter
<s-fox> ?
<s-fox> It's friday
<oimon> s-fox, devops_borat?
<nothingspecial> I like this one https://twitter.com/#!/_Silver_Fox_
<mattt> i usually get annoyed by people/companies i follow on twitter
<s-fox> oimon,  I didn't like the film , chances of me liking that ?
<mattt> s-fox: slim
<s-fox> matt I tend to unfollow anyone that annoys me pretty quickly
<mattt> devops borat is mildly funny
<mattt> but after like months and months, it's kinda ... :-/
<oimon> i'm moving off twitter onto g+ where i can. i only check twitter 1x per day
<oimon> twitter and g+ are just RSS feeds for me
<mattt> i check twitter on my phone when i'm in the toilet
<mattt> :P
<s-fox> Thank you for sharing
<mattt> hahahaha
 * mattt retracts
 * oimon notices some interesting news on bbc website
<hamitron> mattt, lets hope you don't feel the need to post what you are doing on twitter when you check it then ;)
<davmor2> czajkowski: danang me, danang me, take a rope and hang me :)
<sagaci> high from the highest treeeeee
<oimon> hamitron, plop plop ahhhh wipe
<AlanBell> TMI
<mattt> hamitron: there's already enough drivel on twitter
<mattt> no need for such updates from me
<andylockran> so, I'm considering a tablet
<andylockran> will andrubuntu be running on one soon do you reckon?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> you could try kubuntu plasma active though
<popey> whats andrubuntu?
<ali1234> it's like a cross between cute ponies and magical goblins
<AlanBell> Ubuntu for Android will only run on the Motorola Atrix, and it isn't available
<andylockran> popey: android phone, when plugged in becomes an ubuntu thingy
<andylockran> yeah, Ubuntu for Android
<andylockran> I'm just calling it andrubuntu because I'm lazy
<popey> maybe later in the year
<ali1234> should call it uburoid
<ali1234> because it sounds like a nasty medical condition
<AlanBell> technically it is more of a parasite
<ali1234> anyway like i said before, ubuntu for atrix has been available for 9 months
<ali1234> closer to 12 months now
<ali1234> but it's not a tablet
<andylockran> I just think the ubundroid solution or whatever would be really useful for me, and I'm holding off buying a new work machine until it's available.  It would be a great solution for my work needs.
<ali1234> hahaha
 * AlanBell wonders if Ubuntu or Linaro will run on the Snapdragon Krait
<andylockran> ali1234: ?
<ali1234> i hope your work needs consist of listening to music, watching films, and going on facebook and checking email
<ali1234> because that's all arm machines are good for
<gord> is it just me, or are lion bars completely different from when i was a kid, huge disappointment
<ali1234> they are painfully slow as soon as you do anything that isn't hardware accelerated
<AlanBell> gord: I have not had one of those for years, might try and find one later to answer that
<ali1234> i'm sure lion bar used to have nuts in it
<ali1234> now it's just some horrible wafer thing
<AlanBell> I don't recall nuts, just rice crispies and toffee and chocolate and stuff
<gord> yeah i don't remember a wafer in it, but this has a wafer
<gord> not what i wanted at all
<ali1234> maybe it used to have rice crispies
<AlanBell> I think there may have been some wafer element to it, to give some structure to the toffee
<gord> i also remember it growling when you break it apart, mine isn't doing that at all!
<andylockran> ali1234: pretty much yes
<andylockran> twitter, facebook, email
<andylockran> & a couple of android apps
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbkWcTX0f5U
<popey> lion bar ad
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> old tv is so calm and sedate
<ali1234> that advert would have dubstep and skateboarding teenagers all over it these days
<AlanBell> gord: /join #linaro
<AlanBell> oops
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0z9l-qG9pM
<gord> but i don't want to :(
<ali1234> well i was close. "heavy" metal and parkour
<AlanBell> gord: I can't even remember what I was going to say to you
<AlanBell> ooh, 6 bottles of wine just arrived
<gord> was it that you wanted me to come over and drink your six bottles of wine?
<andylockran> I like the teasers on the website http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/tv <- but where can I get the latest developments on these teasers.
<AlanBell> andylockran: http://pad.ubuntu.com/PhoneTabletTVFAQ
<andylockran> AlanBell: thanks
<AlanBell> and a new phone just arrived
<andylockran> yeah?
<AlanBell> samsung galaxy ace purple
<AlanBell> because if you install pandas vs ninja on a blackberry torch it bricks the phone (two returns done, no more blackberries)
<popey> "Tickets for ORGCon selling fast!"
<popey> bet they aren't.
<AlanBell> popey: that isn't what you are calling it is it?
<popey> :D
<AlanBell> oh, this http://www.openrightsgroup.org/blog/2010/book-now-first-ever-orgcon-24-july
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://fruitydev.libertus.co.uk/crm-530/index.php?module=Accounts&parenttab=Support&action=DetailView&record=89564
<TheOpenSourcerer> Bad - wrong window.
<AlanBell> silly silly sourcerer
<popey> heheh
<djbenny> afternoon
 * DJones wonders how many people have clicked on that link just to be nosey
<dwatkins> probably needs a login or session ID
<andylockran> :D
 * dwatkins notes that the server is running Apache and has the infamous "It works!" page at the top level ;)
<davmor2> Kid:Dude you just killed a helicopter with a car   McClain: I ran out of bullets (sniggery laugh)  it's fun friday random quotes day
<czajkowski> https://www.facebook.com/questions/326779177369296/  what would you like to hear more of from launchpad :)
<daubers> dwatkins: Someone should change that in the package one day to say "It doesn't work"
<dwatkins> daubers: that would be mean ;)
<dwatkins> I'd prefer "You have a boring default page!"
<daubers> dwatkins: And amusingly confusing
<daubers> dwatkins: We could just change the default page to the fail whale?
<dwatkins> daubers: good call, here's one I just converted: http://rowla.dyndns.org/whale.txt ;)
<daubers> heh :)
 * MartijnVdS plays with EagleCad
<dwatkins> daubers: here's a better one: http://rowla.dyndns.org/failwhale.html - thanks to http://picascii.com/
<andylockran> are be internet likely to go ipv6
<daubers> dwatkins: That one is quite cool :)
<dwatkins> daubers: yeah, I might use it as my 404
<MartijnVdS> andylockran: of course!
<andylockran> MartijnVdS: yeah?
<MartijnVdS> andylockran: Expect to see major announements on/before 8-6: http://www.worldipv6day.org/
<andylockran> ah, kewl
<MartijnVdS> andylockran: (last year, they tried it for a day, now they're leaving IPv6 on afterwards)
<andylockran> excellent
<oimon> yay https://plus.google.com/103345707817934461425/posts/6xHVneF1wYn
<oimon> had been finding gmail annoying cos of this
<zleap> Ifi ed it /etc/hosts do i need to reboot my system or can i type something to get it to re-read the file ?
<directhex> "it depends"
<directhex> for services which directly do a hostname lookup every time from nss, "no". if there's any per-app caching (e.g. chromium) or systemwide caching (e.g. nscd) you may need to restart the app/daemon
<marxjohnson> afternoon all
<AlanBell> marxjohnson: o/
<marxjohnson> i'm currently mooching around London Waterloo for an hour. party on.
<AlanBell> what fun
<marxjohnson> i might play 'make eye contact with a londoner'
<daubers> marxjohnson: A dangerous game. Are you wearing a stab vest?
<AlanBell> you won't win that game
<marxjohnson> i'm not trying to win, i'm trying to waste time ;)
<marxjohnson> hence also, irc on my phone
<daubers> marxjohnson: No kindle?
 * daubers wonders if his mathematica licence is still valid
<marxjohnson> daubers: no, but i do have some ebooks on my phone, thanks for remindinq me!
<davmor2> hey gord you around still?
<AlanBell> my package in a PPA works \o/
<AlanBell> I think. Anyone running Unity want to test it?
<AlanBell> sudo apt-add-repository ppa:alanbell/unity
<AlanBell> sudo apt-get update
<AlanBell> sudo apt-get install unity-window-quicklists
<AlanBell> then log out and back in again, you should have quicklists on launcher icons showing what windows there are for that application and you can select and raise *one* of them at a time
<AlanBell> http://blog.launchpad.net/general/meet-laura-czajkowski
<DJones> czajkowski: I wonder whether I should point out a spelling mistake on the 1st line of the 2nd paragraph "emai"
<DJones> Not sure who would responsible for correcting that
<DJones> Presumably Dan
<czajkowski> yarp
<AlanBell> and I think a bazaar is supposed to be bizare in there somewhere
<AlanBell> "Bazaar and PPAs both of which are bazaar to me at present"
<AlanBell> in there
<czajkowski> pun intended :)
 * AlanBell goes back to packaging things
<czajkowski> AlanBell: off anywhere nice?
<AlanBell> lulz
<AlanBell> packaging stuff to put in PPAs :)
<czajkowski> :)
<AlanBell> it is massively hard to do a simple package, packaging complicated things is fairly straightforward, but the simple case is a nightmare
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Bell] Unity Window Quicklists - http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2012/03/16/unity-window-quicklists/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=unity-window-quicklists
<ali1234> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17396170 - see box "how many 50% tax payers are there"
<ali1234> if you take those figures and use the minimum values then the total extra revenue from 50% rate is 3.75 billion
<ali1234> oh wait, it's 2.25 billion actually...
<ali1234> that's a very conservative estimate though
<ali1234> i don't understand how people are avoiding this tax
<AlanBell> by living on the Isle of Man :)
<ali1234> then presumably they are not paying tax at all
<ali1234> which means they aren't included in the numbers
<ali1234> 250000 people is the top 0.8% of incomes btw
<ali1234> (for income tax payers only)
<ali1234> AlanBell: the trouble with quick lists is it doesn't help if allthe windows have the same title, as the often do
<ali1234> i prefer to identify windows by their position on screen
<ali1234> do the quicklists stay in the same order?
<AlanBell> they should stay in the same order
<AlanBell> they certainly don't move about on a window title change
<AlanBell> new ones get added to the bottom of the quicklist
<popey> why not put the three windows you're working on into one workspace?
<popey> then just press the launcher button or alt-tab to switch between those 3?
<ali1234> three windows is a minimal case
<ali1234> usually it's three terminals, a browser, an editor, plus the UI of the program you're working on
<ali1234> and you can put them all on their own workspace
<ali1234> but the problem happens when something unrelated interrupts you
<ali1234> like an incoming message on irc
<ali1234> so you switch to irc on another workspace
<ali1234> then when you try to go back to what you were doing, all your carefully arranged windows are mixed in with everything else
<AlanBell> popey: well I could, I could also put all the terminals into tmux or something, but I don't think that "use fewer windows" is a good solution to "I want my window manager to be better"
<ali1234> exactly
<popey> I'm not suggesting fewer windows
<popey> I'm suggesting using the existing window management tools
<popey> I just said "3" as a "collection of more than one window"
<popey> (and because you said 3 on your blog)
<ali1234> because the number of windows used rarely will all fit on the screen at one time
<popey> why do they have to "fit"?
<ali1234> because as soon as you minimize something, you;ve lost it forever?
<popey> why minimise it
<ali1234> because the spread is so unusable
<popey> alt-tab or press the button on the launcher
<popey> I didnt suggest spread
<ali1234> um you minimize it because you can't fit it all on screen at once
<ali1234> either t is on the screen, visible
<ali1234> or it isn't
<popey> behind stuff
<popey> thats not minimised
<ali1234> if it isn't, the only way to find it is using the spread
<popey> no
<ali1234> if you want to get at something behind another window... you have to minimize the window in front
<popey> click the launcher or alt-tab/tick
<popey> no
<popey> *boggle*
<ali1234> "click the launcher" - that is the spread
<popey> no
<popey> i have 6 apps open all on one desktop
<ali1234> i was at the irc class where all the terms were laid out
<popey> if i want to switch i press the button on the left
<ali1234> when you click the launcher, that is the spread
<popey> ffs no
<popey> i am not saying launch the spread
<popey> i am saying press the button for the app in the launcher
<ali1234> well how else do you switch windows?
<popey> alt tab, alt-`
<ali1234> yes, when you press the button on thelauncher for the app, and it shows the little thumbnail for all the windows
<popey> depends how many are open
<ali1234> that is called the spread according to talk given by gorge castro
<popey> yes, i know that
<popey> i am not suggesting using spread
<AlanBell> if you press the launcher button they *all* spring to the top of the zindex
<AlanBell> which is possibly a bug
<ali1234> no, in the unity checkbox tests this behaviour is part of the test so it is not a bug
<AlanBell> ok, broken by design then
<ali1234> so you clikc the launcher, all the window spop up in front of whatever is currently running, then you click it again and the spread opens, then you pull out a magnifying glass and identify which window is the one you want and click it
<AlanBell> anyhow, the window quicklists don't take any window management options away from you
<AlanBell> ali1234: you can use compiz enhanced zoom to see what they are when in the spread
<AlanBell> it is quite cool, all the thumbnails are full resolution openGL textures you can zoom back in and pan around
<ali1234> wow, so if you zoom in, you get the full resolution? that's pretty cool
<ali1234> inredibly innefficient way to switch windows though
<AlanBell> yeah
<ali1234> might as well use alt-`
<ali1234> well, except that you can't zoom in on alt-`
<ali1234> and alt-` requires you to focus on a window of the app before you can use it
<ali1234> so you actually might as well just click the launcher twice cos it's faster
<AlanBell> well it requires you to start with alt-tab to select the application then alt+` or down and alt+tab to cycle through the windows of the application
<ali1234> key word being "cycle"
<ali1234> as opposed to just going directly to the one you want
<ali1234> you have to look through a huge list
<AlanBell> yeah, no active mouse cursor when alt-tab is active
<AlanBell> anyhow, I like my little quicklists, they work for me. If anyone else likes them then so much the better.
<ali1234> the longer the list themore likely you are to accidentally go past the one you want and then have to either go through the whole list again, or sprain your wrist trying to press the shift-alt-`
<popey> I wasnt knocking the quicklist, I think they're neat, I was just trying to figure out what they solved thats all.
<ali1234> they solve the problem of when you have more than two windows open from the same application
<ali1234> they solve it better than any of the other solutions
<ali1234> basically they solve the problem that the spread and alt-tab/alt-` are both horrible
<AlanBell> popey: this is the problem it solves http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0Q8Cd6piIc
<popey> gotcha
<popey> I guess I work around that now â¹
 * popey ponders who it would be good to get at oggcamp
<popey> if we did it
<popey> âº
<AlanBell> as speakers?
<popey> yes AlanBell
<popey> trying to come up with people
<popey> suggestions welcome
<AlanBell> ooh I know, @rainycat
<mattt> evening all
<popey> ooo ta AlanBell
<AlanBell> popey: Eben and Liz Upton
<zleap> good idea
<DJones> popey: How about @ruskin147 as a speaker
<DJones> Maybe he could combine it with his day job and get interviews for the BBC for broadcast
<mattt> i heard @andrewgodwin speaking at fosdem last year, about django/python
<mattt> he's from london, and a really good spaeker
<popey> thanks
<mattt> popey: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KTVws3TiC0
<popey> nice vide, thanks!
<mattt> np
<Azelphur> Hmm, my space bar seems a bit dodgy, it works, but it's really limp and has no 'click' to it, anyone got any ideas on how I might fix it?
<Azelphur> Tis my gaming keyboard, so don't really want to part with it
<shauno> time to start breaking in a replacement
<Azelphur> It's a Â£100+ keyboard :<
<dwatkins> Azelphur: can you take the space bar off and check the spring?
<Azelphur> yea I just took it off it doesn't seem to have a spring, more of a lever type thing i'll take a photo
<popey> I haven't had a keyboard break for quite some time
<popey> but then I haven't bought a keyboard for a long time âº
<popey> i just use whatever crap comes with the computer
<Azelphur> yea, my keyboard sees real heavy usage
<Azelphur> I seem to go through them every 3 years or so
<shauno> the only keyboard I have is .. ancient.  I only have it for a very obnoxious terminal that won't use a usb keyboard still
<AlanBell> I have an expensive keyboard I was given, but I don't really use it, I kind of prefer the short travel laptop keyboard
<Azelphur> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2012/March/IMG_20120316_225917.jpg
<Azelphur> dwatkins: ^
<ali1234> crusty
<Azelphur> ali1234: you should have seen it /before/ I cleaned it
<ali1234> yeah most likely the metal bar popped out of the guide rails
<Azelphur> nope, it's still in it's guide rails
<ali1234> it's clearly not in that photo
<ali1234> maybe it was just clogged with dirt, i dunno
<dwatkins> yeah, worth a clean with a cotton bud
<Azelphur> ok I'll clean up the bar
<Azelphur> see the clips at the top left and right of the bar? that's where the bar should sit afaik
<Azelphur> it's inside it's clips
<ali1234> yeah but you have to get the other end under the guides on the main chassis
<ali1234> other wise it just flaps around and does nothing
<ali1234> and the spacebar gets really spongey
<Azelphur> YeaIDidThat
<Azelphur> YayNoSpaceTime
<Azelphur> OhDear,FoundTheIssue
<ali1234> remap space to G12
<Azelphur> put the space bar back now :P
<Azelphur> the membrane under the keyboard is split
<ali1234> the rubber stuff?
<Azelphur> yea
<Azelphur> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IBOR2le-1w&t=0m9s
<Azelphur> that stuff
<Azelphur> the little bubble thing that's under the space bar, it's split around the edge of the bubble
<ali1234> glue it, or cut one out from an old keyboard
<Azelphur> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2012/March/DSC03539.jpg better idea of what happened
<Azelphur> ali1234: do you know what it's called? would make for easier googling, maybe I can get a replacement one from logitech.
<ali1234> just get a whole broken keyboard
<Azelphur> yea
<ali1234> it will be easier
<Azelphur> still would like to ask just to see if they have it as a pot shot, so any idea what it's called?
<Azelphur> if they don't have it I'll hunt down a busted one
<ali1234> you don't need the specific one for g19
<Azelphur> oh, that's interesting
<ali1234> you just get any keyboard, cut out one "bubble", and glue it in place after cutting out the old broken one
<ali1234> its just a sheet of rubber
<ali1234> they are all exactly the same
<Azelphur> haha, I don't think glue will last too long tbh
<Azelphur> the amount of usage this keyboard gets
<ali1234> it doesn't matter
<ali1234> it doesn't move side to side
<Azelphur> oh I see what your saying
<MartijnVdS> sugru.com! :)
<Azelphur> yea I could do that
<Azelphur> that can be plan C :P
<DonkeyScience> Fridayyyy :D
<Azelphur> ali1234: oh hey, turns out you was right about the whole G19 boot loop thing
<Azelphur> apparently it's a known issue, the power supply overheats, doesn't supply enough power to the G19, and so it boot loops
<ali1234> what?
<ali1234> i don't remember that
<Azelphur> It was an issue I talked to you about a while back
<ali1234> hmm
<Azelphur> Occasionally, my G19 "boot loops" the LCD just flashes on, off, on, off... and I have to pull the power out on it to get it to stop doing it
<ali1234> bootloop?
<ali1234> i've never seen it do that
<Azelphur> yea, you don't use it too much right?
<ali1234> it does get warm though
<ali1234> i started using it all the time
<Azelphur> or did you start using it now?
<ali1234> just cos it has usb ports
<Azelphur> haha, cool :D
<Azelphur> did you install the software?
<ali1234> yeah
<Azelphur> hehe, it's good fun :)
<ali1234> i use the libusb driver though
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> why you not using your own driver? XD
<ali1234> cos it is buggy and has to be recompiled all the time
<Azelphur> you know Gnome15 has it packaged right?
<ali1234> yeah but not for precise
<Azelphur> press button receive driver
<Azelphur> ah :P
<Azelphur> ali1234: http://forums.logitech.com/t5/G-Series-Gaming-Keyboards/Refusing-to-replace-G19-How-dare-you/td-p/652452 last paragraph on this rage thread
<Azelphur> I get exactly that issue
<ali1234> lol
<Azelphur> think getting a replacement non standard supply may fix it?
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> sure
<ali1234> i used it with wrong power supply for a while
<ali1234> when i couldn't find the real one
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> can you point me at a replacement supply I can order online for it? :D
<Azelphur> would be great to solve that boot loop issue, drives me insane
<Azelphur> does it every day or so, and the kernel driver doesn't support replugging, so it's a reboot every time xD
<ali1234> http://www.maplin.co.uk/high-power-multi-voltage-plug-top-power-supply-49063
<Azelphur> haha, that works I suppose
<ali1234> dunno if that has the right tip
<ali1234> i have a box full of them
<Azelphur> ah
<ali1234> it probably does though
<Azelphur> was gonna say it might be sensible to get the right supply, don't need multi-voltage, but then again I doubt the price is gonna be much different
<directhex> mains-powered keyboard @_@
<ali1234> http://www.maplin.co.uk/ac-dc-fixed-voltage-switched-mode-power-supplies-48484
<ali1234> only the screen part is mains powered, keys part works without psu
<Azelphur> not sure which of those I'd want, and they are more expensive than the multi volthaha
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> look on the PSU it will be labelled
<Azelphur> ali1234: doesn't say the connector size I think
<ali1234> it won't
<ali1234> but ... it's one of them
<ali1234> just take PSU to maplin shop and compare it
<Azelphur> can I not identify it baring in mind I have it here?
<Azelphur> not really any maplins too close to here
<ali1234> not really
<ali1234> not based on mpalin website anyway
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> ali1234: the tips are standardised right? so if it doesn't have the tip with it I can order a tip from someplace
<ali1234> well
<ali1234> i've ever seen the tips sold separately
<Azelphur> o.O
<ali1234> but yeah they are standard
<Azelphur> would need to identify the tip on it anyway to ensure I was buying something that'll work haha
#ubuntu-uk 2012-03-17
<ali1234> AlanBell: what are you doing
<ali1234> you;re spamming me with online/offline notifications :)
<ali1234> you were doing it this morning too
<Azelphur> he's breaking all the things
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Bytemark Rock Again - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/03/17/bytemark-rock-again/
<Azelphur> ali1234: fixed my G19 just like you said :D
<Azelphur> the G19 has big "walls" around each dome, so I didn't even need to glue it
<MartijnVdS> à² _à²  -- the "crash database submission daemon" is called "whoopsie"
<czajkowski> aloha
<czajkowski> MartijnVdS: whoopsie daisy :)
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: yeah, great name for a crash reporter thingy
<djbenny> morning
<s-fox> Hello
<MartijnVdS> \o
<s-fox> Hello MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> Wow.. I've seen many kinds of boxes to ship stuff in
<MartijnVdS> But never a plastic "lunchbox"
<MartijnVdS> until now
<s-fox> Got to go. See you
<jacobw> morning
<popey> Greetings
<christel> morning lovelies
<MartijnVdS> howdy christel
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MartijnVdS> howdy brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi MartijnVdS
<popey> Wotcher
<brobostigon> morning popey
<daubers> Morning
<gordonjcp> hmmm
<gordonjcp> does banshee really have no way to set which device it plays back through?
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: no, because pulseaudio does
<gordonjcp> right, but that means I have to try to get pulseaudio working
<MartijnVdS> but that's easy :)
<popey> Uh-oh! We're entering the "gordonjcp spends an hour telling us how audio sucks on Ubuntu" zone.. âº
 * gord sees what else is on
 * brobostigon puts ch4 on, BBT :)
<AlanBell> where is the per-application device control these days?
<MartijnVdS> I thought it was with the per-app volume control
<AlanBell> I can change the volume per-application, and change the overall output device
<MartijnVdS> but it isn't
<popey> pavucontrol?
<MartijnVdS> there is per-class device control ("multimedia" -> speakers, "phone calls" -> headphone)
<AlanBell> ah yes, pavucontrol, but not the default thingie in the sound indicator
<gordonjcp> popey: <shrug>
<gordonjcp> popey: it doesn't work, and I haven't got time to fix it
<danfish> afternoon chaps and chapesses
<brobostigon> afternoonings danfish
<jacobw> BBT?
<danfish> o/
<brobostigon> jacobw: big bang theory.
<jacobw> OFC
<AlanBell> popey: do you find kazam chomps *lots* of CPU?
<AlanBell> my laptop keeps overheating and going into thermal shutdown before I can record anything
<popey> no
<AlanBell> gtk-recordmydesktop uses hardly anything during recording, then spins one core at 100% while saving
<popey> s/saving/encoding/
<AlanBell> yeah
<popey> i did suggest to david that he implement a similar feature
<danfish> AlanBell: have you seen this? http://hc2012.bcs.org/
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/kazam.png
<AlanBell> danfish: interesting, thanks
<AlanBell> I might have to clean the fan
<AlanBell> and prop up the back of the laptop for better airflow
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/kazam.png
<popey> started recording on the left of that window, mid way through I did some compiz sillyness
<AlanBell> what processor is that?
<popey> model name	: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2600 CPU @ 3.40GHz
 * jacobw likes abcde
<jacobw> 'a better cd encoder'
<jacobw> cli ripper
<AlanBell> popey: I am using Intel(R) Core(TM) i3 CPU       M 330  @ 2.13GHz
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: there used to be a version "for gnome" -- abcdefg
<AlanBell> think I will do an ffmpeg screencast, and grab the audio on a different computer and then put them back together in openshot afterwards
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: can't you use a pulseaudio 'monitor' channel?
<AlanBell> well I was trying that with kazam, but it didn't seem to work quite right, plus my laptop kept shutting down
<popey> lp:ffscreencast might work better
<popey> it records audio from teh card too
<popey> and mixes audio for you
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/887728/ I installed the dependencies, but it is missing something
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: predictions for today
<TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski: A festival of cracking Rugby.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I reckon: Italy will beat Scotland by a whisker. Wales will have France (although I'd rather the other way round) and that England will comfortably take Ireland.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Will be off to my local shortly for a long afternoon :-)
<czajkowski> not sure italy have it in them
<czajkowski> hoping wales beat france.
<czajkowski> and as for the last one
<czajkowski> time will tell :)
<czajkowski> anyone know how you create a project page on G+ ?
<AlanBell> popey: couple of bugs :)
<AlanBell> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1931867 lossless_ultrafast has gone
<AlanBell> xrandr | awk '/\*/ {print $1}' returns dimensions of all monitors, it should just grab one of them to put in $res
<AlanBell> yay, got the popeyscript working
<AlanBell> needed a different audio codec libvo_aacenc
<czajkowski> Launchpad now has it's own G+ page - https://plus.google.com/116931976620769325703/posts
<MartijnVdS> time for a higher-res icon :)
<czajkowski> nods
<czajkowski> will sort that out monday
<popey> AlanBell: patches welcome :D
<AlanBell> yeah, will do
<popey> AlanBell: I never get to say that, sorry âº
<Nafallo> popey: that's clearly a lie now
<AlanBell> it is a nice thing to say
<AlanBell> much better than "patches not welcome"
<Nafallo> bzr branches welcome?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Gareth France] I thought I saw light at the end of the tunnel& - http://cliftonts.co.uk/cubuntu/?p=131
<s-fox> Hi everyone
<DJones> Afternoon s-fox, bit of a late reply, but Hi
<s-fox> Hello  DJones =)
<s-fox> How're you?
<DJones> Not bad thanks, just watching the rugby, you?
<s-fox> Same, busy sulking at the result erlier against italy =/
<GirlyGirl> Ah rugby fanticism
<DJones> s-fox: Just keeping my fingers crossed for Wales
<s-fox> as long as wales don't do anything silly the welsh will win easily
<DJones> Hope so
 * AlanBell is slightly tempted to install boot to gecko on the samsung Galaxy S2
<s-fox> DJones france looking good atm
<DJones> s-fox: A bit too good for my liking
<s-fox> biab
<czajkowski> weeeee
<DJones> Does that mean you're winning?
<czajkowski> DJones: even stevens
 * DJones watches via bbc website
<DJones> One eye on Bradford v St Helens on tv, one eye on 6 nations, and a 3rd eye reading a book :)
<GirlyGirl> I'm screwed with the Windows 7 enterprise system I'm working with. Someone put all sorts of settings like nude people on the desktop and installed this thing called deep freeze. (basically makes windows read only) so all settings come back every reboot and I can't install anything. You have no idea what its like working with a pc with nude people everywhere in its theme and auto opening dirty videos every few mintues. I hate wor
<GirlyGirl> Stupid how ms can let a 3rd party app lock their os to prevent changes
<penguin42> GirlyGirl: I think it's intention is so that at work machines can be locked down to *stop* people installing crap on them
<shauno> makes complete sence to me, except for nude people showing up multiple times.  my office is nothing like that :/
<penguin42> (and if that's in the UK you could probably throw half a dozen lawyers at a place that let that go on)
<daubers> !google test
<lubotu3> I have no google command, use http://www.google.com/
<OmNomDePlume> Anybody watching the Spurs - Bolton game?
<OmNomDePlume> It looks like Muamba might have had a heart attack on the field.
<OmNomDePlume> This isn't a joke - he collapsed nowhere near the ball and they can't wake him up.
<DJones> What channel is that on?
<czajkowski> DJones: sky
<czajkowski> news
<DJones> Right, the game was on ESPN
<DJones> BBC reporting that the game has been abandoned
<OmNomDePlume> "Ian Dennis, BBC Radio 5 live's senior football reporter, has just reported that Muamba is fighting for his life."
<DJones> Certainly puts winning or losing into perspective, its only a game
<OmNomDePlume> I'm pretty sure he had a heart attack. Nobody on TV would say it, though.
<OmNomDePlume> There have been a handful of players who've similarly collapsed on the field - AFAIK they all died.
<OmNomDePlume> The Benfica player, the ex-City player.
<DJones> Reading the reports, medics were giving him CPR on the pitch, my wife does that for a living says all the reports would suggest a heart attack
<OmNomDePlume> Yep.
<OmNomDePlume> It's always an "undiagnosed heart condition".
<OmNomDePlume> This is pretty distressing.
 * penguin42 can kind of understand when that happens to kids at school, but you'd think that a professional athlete would have been monitored pretty regularly
<OmNomDePlume> If he didn't display any signs of heart problems, it can't be diagnosed AFAIK.
<OmNomDePlume> I dunno how they'd diagnose, say, a hole in the septum if he doesn't display any symptoms.
<penguin42> and that wouldn't show on anything even if tested under stress?
<DJones> Hmmh, Sky news website wants me to install Silverlight to watch live, takes me to go-mono.com to install the appropriate plugin
<OmNomDePlume> penguin42, apparently not.
<OmNomDePlume> I'm guessing they don't get their hearts checked often for stuff like that.
 * DJones falls of his chair....It works, installs moonlight plugin and codecs
<OmNomDePlume> But yeah, I think he had a heart attack.
<brobostigon> !info unity-lens-gwibber precise
<lubotu3> unity-lens-gwibber (source: gwibber): Gwibber Lens for unity. In component universe, is optional. Version 3.3.92-0ubuntu1 (precise), package size 18 kB, installed size 111 kB (Only available for any all)
<brobostigon> unity lens?
<brobostigon> what is one?
<zleap> hello
<penguin42> anyone any good with Nouveau on Lucid?
 * penguin42 seems to have a choice between a kernel where Nouveau gets upset and it falls back to vesa, or one where Nouveau works in 8bpp
<brobostigon> well, lucid, is alsmost 2 years old now, i would presume, many changes ghave happened, in both linux(kernel) and nouveau, so it might be worth to try something newer, as to if some improvements have been made.
<penguin42> brobostigon: Well yes, I was trying mainline kernels on lucid; that gets me a nouveau that starts up, but 8bpp
<brobostigon> penguin42: have you tried forcing with a custom xorg.conf?
<penguin42> no, not yet
<brobostigon> ok.
<penguin42> hmm curious - I see why it's doing it - it's idea of how much video memory it has is completely bogus - it thinks it has 768kB - when it's actually got 32MB
<brobostigon> penguin42: has the bug been reported?. it seems from what you have said, it is over 2 years old.
<penguin42> brobostigon: I filed it about an hour ago as bug 958123
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 958123 in linux (Ubuntu) "[TTM] AGP Bind memory failed." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/958123
<penguin42> brobostigon: I haven't split the 8bpp one out as a separate bug yet, I think it's probably only fair to do that on with a newer X server as well
<penguin42> brobostigon: The thing is the symptom of the original bug is just abysmal performance, so perhaps there are a load of people who just think Ubuntu is naff on there machine
<penguin42> brobostigon: It's probably http://us.generation-nt.com/answer/patch-agp-amd-k7-allow-binding-user-memory-agp-gart-help-200686231.html actually
<brobostigon> penguin42: ok, yes, that would bode an interesting experiment.
<SuperEngineer> o/
 * SuperEngineer just finished setup of 12.04 - & found the "poifect" soloution to probs....  12.04 + Cairo dock ;)
<dwatkins> I really like Cairo dock, I assume you turned off the built-in dock, SuperEngineer
<hamitron> time to make Cabuntu? ;)
<dwatkins> Catbuntu
<dwatkins> (purely because cats are ace, I'm sure we can find something beginning with 't' to fit in with Cairo and Ubuntu)
<hamitron> Cairo Take Ubuntu
<hamitron> I bet Cat would get more users than Ca, just because of the name :/
<penguin42> a purrfect distribution?
 * hamitron sighs and laughs at same time
<daubers> Some event organisers need their heads banged together
<daubers> How can the Derby Mini Maker faire and the festival of rocketry be on the same weekend!
<penguin42> daubers: If you go to the festival of recketry then perhaps you can get to the Derby Mini Maker fair very quickly
<penguin42> rocketry even
<daubers> cambridge to derby
<daubers> might be easier the other way :)
#ubuntu-uk 2012-03-18
<mattt> up wayyy too early on a sunday :(
<MartijnVdS> mattt: watching F1 eh? :)
<mattt> MartijnVdS: working :P
<MartijnVdS> aww
<popey> Morning
<MartijnVdS> \o popey
<MooDoo> morning all
<christel> morning lovelies
<popey> Happy mothers day christel
<MooDoo> happy mothers day as well from me christel :) xx <3
<christel> thank you :)
<MooDoo> shame i'm having to work :(
<christel> aww
<christel> i am having to "celebrate" on my own -- apparently my first "present" is for the boy wonder to have a lie-in.. and i was expecting breakfast in bed!
<christel> (otoh the sun is out and i am rather enjoying being able to enjoy a slow mug of coffee in peace)
<MooDoo> sun is out?  blimey it's snowing here
<christel> woha really?
<MooDoo> yeah
<christel> it's really sunny here -- yesterday was pretty grey and really cold, woke up today and it's super sunny and lovely
<christel> (well, i havent ventured outside -- it may be freezing)
<christel> where are you at MooDoo
<popey> yeah, i was near blinded when i opened the curtains this morning!
<MooDoo> christel: nottingham
<MooDoo> looking out the windows, it's stopped now, and turned to rain....typical
<christel> hehe
<AlanBell> morning all
<christel> morning AlanBell :)
<popey> directhex: thanks for wrapping the xbox360 in all that red bubble wrap. Gave me something to wrap wifeys mothers-day stuff in âº
<MooDoo> morning AlanBell
<popey> MartijnVdS: my mate has found a flat in Ijburg
<MartijnVdS> popey: One of the few places in Amsterdam with 500/500 fibre :)
<popey> lol
<MartijnVdS> (that's not a datacentre)
<directhex> popey: heh
<directhex> popey: how's it treating you?
<meet> like i want to press f3 key to toggle between touchpad on or off.. anyway to do this?
<seeker> Anyone else having Internet connectivity issues?
<MooDoo> seeker: home or work?
<seeker> Home
<dwatkins> Which ISP are you on, seeker?
<popey> directhex: kids love it âº
<Seeker`> thats weird
<popey> directhex: they're both currently doing their own profiles
<Seeker`> I booted up my desktop, internet came back to live
<Seeker`> *life
<popey> i only have one set of component ports on my telly and the DVD player uses them â¨
<popey> so am currently using the composite port for xbox 360 which doesn't look great
<dwatkins> I connected my xbox 360 via VGA, it increased the resolution.
<MartijnVdS> Use the XBox as a DVD player
<MartijnVdS> also, use HDMI for the XBox
<popey> no hdmi port on xbox
<popey> the dvd player is attached to the amp, the xbox isnt
<dwatkins> My xbox RROD'ed, need to get a new one when I can afford it.
<popey> its a bit of a faff
<dwatkins> It's handy that I can use the PS3 as a media player and DVD and toy.
<popey> wow, component is much nicer
<meet> how to set keyboard shortcuts through terminal?
<StevenR_> meet: what do you mean? Keyboard shortcuts tend to be for graphical user interfaces.
<meet> stevenR: ya.. i mean setting up keyboard shortcuts..
<MartijnVdS> popey: XBox has no hdmi?! Is it an XBox 1?
<MartijnVdS> or am I spoiled by all my HDMI devices ;)
<bigcalm> Ello peeps :)
<meet> i want to configure the shortcuts for gui. But how do i do that through the terminal window? which file to edit or what?
<MartijnVdS> howdy bigcalm
<StevenR_> meet: I suspect it's all stored in some text config file
<meet> so how do i setup keyboard shortcuts in general?
<SpudULike> Hello room.  In Thunderbird I've marked a folded as having all messages read.  I want to still see these read messages, but Thunderbird seems to be hiding them from me.  Anyone know how to turn this feature off?
<MartijnVdS> meet: which version of Ubuntu do you use?
<meet> 11.10 gnome 3
<MartijnVdS> meet: Gnome 3, not unity?
<StevenR_> meet: it's probably specific to the graphical desktop that you're using
<meet> martijnVds: ya gnome 3, not unity. :) suits me better
<MartijnVdS> In that case.. it's probably very hard.
<meet> martijnVds: any idea how do i setup keyboard shortcuts?
<meet> why?
<MartijnVdS> Because Gnome 3 isn't a pinnacle of customizability
<meet> so what can i do? any idea where can i find the info/?
<MartijnVdS> In Unity you can use ccsm to set some keyboard shortcuts
<meet> unity does not suit me. rather i am used to gnome now so i need help for that. the ones i had already do not work directly.
<meet> martijnVds: will ccsm work for gnome?
<StevenR_> yay. CMOS checksum error.
<MartijnVdS> StevenR_: Press F1 to continue
<StevenR_> MartijnVdS: or DEL to enter setup
<StevenR_> ahh well. The mobo is 9 years old.
<MartijnVdS> StevenR_: CR2032 :)
<StevenR_> if I used it more, I'd replace the cell, but it's an old box I run mythtv on at my parents' house
<penguin42> hmm, Aardman have made a 3D animation - that might actually be worth seeing; not seen any 3d stuff yet
<jacobw> afternoon
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: the Pirates thing?
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Nod
<penguin42> can someone check that they can see http://www.treblig.org/debug/slidemergesmall.png   - some people are saying they are getting errors - works for me
<MartijnVdS> It's a PNG
<MartijnVdS> works here
<penguin42> ok, thanks
 * jacobw thinks that IE6 doesn't support PNG transparency
<MartijnVdS> Yes.. are the complainers using stone-age tech? :)
<AlanBell> I believe it can do with a hack, but who cares?
<MartijnVdS> didn't Google give up on IE6 already?
<jacobw> unfortunately, people are stupid
<MartijnVdS> tru.dat
<mattt> ha, tru.dat
<jacobw> hmm, hud doesn't find firefox->edit->preferences from `firefox` <alt> 'preferences'
<jacobw> ofc, now i try to reproduce it, it does :p
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Phil Bull] GNOME Docs hackfest in Brno - http://philbull.livejournal.com/60292.html
<awilkins> *sigh* Sundays....
<MooDoo> +1 awilkins
<mattt> bleh
<jacobw> i currently use gmane for reading high volume lists that i don't want to subscribe to
<jacobw> i'm happy with it, but interested to know what other archives are used
<penguin42> jacobw: I tend to read mailing lists with mutt, judicious use of D to kill threads; for news feeds/blogs etc I tend to use Google Reader
<dogmatic69> hi all, just had my desktop crash ~ 7 times, been watching the logs now and getting 'chrome[3667]: segfault at 7fff4e852ff8 ip 0000372a7100a001 sp 00007fff4e853000 error 6'
<dogmatic69> a whole bunch of them
<dogmatic69> anyone know what it could be?
<dogmatic69> monitor just goes blank and shows the default 'not plugged in' message, so its like gfx card dies.
<dogmatic69> a few times it just hangs, cant move the mouse etc
<penguin42> dogmatic69: Well that dmesg is chrome dieing - whether that's relating to everything else is a bit difficult to say, do you get any errors in /var/log/Xorg.0.log ?
<dogmatic69> penguin42:  http://pastebin.com/J9bFXznT
<dogmatic69> not seeing anything jump out at me, not that I know what to look for :D
<ali1234> why can't i reopen bug 907837
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 907837 in Ayatana Design "difficult to resize window with 12.04 overlay scrollbar" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/907837
<dogmatic69> just kicked me out to the login
<penguin42> dogmatic69: That looks OK, but is there a /var/log/Xorg0.log.old - that should have the one from when it last crashed
<dogmatic69> ok, it just crashed again, .old http://pastebin.com/7EznYfjy and the 0.log again http://pastebin.com/ind12bF7
 * dogmatic69 will not open chrome just yet
<penguin42> dogmatic69: Those look ok, so it doesn't look like the X server is dieing
<dogmatic69_> just opened firefox and it hung
<dogmatic69_> on a different pc now
<penguin42> dogmatic69_: When it hangs can you ctrl-alt-F1 to get a text console?
<dogmatic69_> nothing seems to work, not tried that though.
<penguin42> No route to host, his net has gone away
<dogmatic69_> it only hangs sometimes, mostly it will completely die
<penguin42> dogmatic69_: Might be worth leaving it on memtest for an hour or two
<dogmatic69_> :S
<dogmatic69_> how do I do that?
<penguin42> dogmatic69_: Reboot, use shift just after the bios to get the GRUB menu, at the bottom should be memtest
<dogmatic69_> the ram usage has been bad that last while, always using like 6 / 7 gigs of my 8. and swapping almost daily
<penguin42> dogmatic69_: Leave it running and go {watch a film, walk the cat, etc}
<dogmatic69_> he he
<penguin42> right, time to make food
<dogmatic69_> penguin42: thanks, will try that out.
<dogmatic69_> penguin42: just std memtest or the serial one?
<dogmatic69_> gawd... its all red
<dogmatic69_> 4k errors already
<dogmatic69_> is that normal?
<popey> ali1234: whats that app you're using in the video? some dbus explorer?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> it affects any app which has a main window split by a resizable panel
<ali1234> and then a list in the left side
<ali1234> for example, banshee, rhythmbox
<ali1234> but i happened to be using dfeet to test another bug at the time
<popey> trying to make it happen here
<popey> dfeet thats it
<ali1234> wow, the horizontal resizer on rhythmbox has just been removed rather than make any attempt to fix it
<popey> i still ahve one here
<ali1234> the two panels are still there, you just can't resize them now
<popey> which two?
<popey> i have 4
<ali1234> artist and album
<ali1234> the leftmost part still has the resize on it but you have to make the window tiny to trigger the bug on that one
<ali1234> popey: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86C1-FH5ZK0
<popey> yeah, just looks like a bug to me
<ali1234> which?
<popey> well its the same bug
<popey> IMO
<popey> internal panels arent resizable
<ali1234> yes, i know it's the same problem
<ali1234> but the question is, where is the bug?
<ali1234> does the design spec have anything to say about this situation?
<ali1234> if it does, then is the bug in the implementation?
<ali1234> and none of this explains why i can't reopen the bug
<ali1234> the bug manifested in gedit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7ZNm1C1eEw
<popey> i dunno, will bring it up with the design guys tomorrow, i am in the office sat with them
<ali1234> cheers
<ali1234> anyway, dinner tiem
<penguin42> dogmatic69_: Nope, not normal!
 * penguin42 waits for his pudding to bake
<Seeker`> hey
<czajkowski> whoo now hve the new mail beep turned off, now to find out if I can turn the deleting a folder beep off
<czajkowski> am hoping by using http://www.webupd8.org/2011/05/configurable-notifyosd-bubbles-for.html  I cna get rid of the notifcation bubble
<czajkowski> worst feature yet tbh, or maybe it;s not working right on my machine. but when mail arrives nad I move my mouse overit, it kinda goes away, so move mouse away and it comes back and repet a few times.
<AlanBell> that is working "right"
<AlanBell> you are supposed to be able to click through them to stuff under, and they fade to let you see what is under them
<czajkowski> well that is well annoying L:( and the person who thought it was right needs a goos clip around the ears
<AlanBell> you can tell Mark that at UDS
<AlanBell> on the ubuntu for android thing there are notifications for incoming calls that you can click on to answer the phone
<AlanBell> I think it is a bit annoying that notifications can't be interacted with
<czajkowski> my problem is I dont always want to see a mail notificaton and if I really have to see it me clicking it should make it go away not vanish and reappear
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> i agree
<ali1234> i don't see mail notifications though because i use gmail
<ali1234> and while pidgin does turn the messaging icon blue on getting a new mail, it doesn't pop up a notification bubble, because the integration is incomplete
<ali1234> obviously i don't use evolution - it cannot handle my inbox at all
<czajkowski> I use thunderbird and love it
<ali1234> thunderbird?
<czajkowski> but the bubles I just fid annioying I'm well able to monitor my and kno when to review my inbox
<czajkowski> ali1234: yes
<AlanBell> I don't mind the bubbles, but if one pops up that is interesting I want to click on it and be in the message. Not have to go find thunderbird all by myself
<ali1234> i agree with that too
<czajkowski> yupp
<czajkowski> it just seems poorly implemented and only half works
<ali1234> but come on, how long has this feature been around?
<czajkowski> so if something half works why use it
<AlanBell> it works exactly as it is supposed to
<ali1234> people have been saying this since it was first made
<ali1234> yes, it works exactly as designed, and everyone who said it was a bad design got shot down over a year ago
<AlanBell> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/253
<ali1234> wow has it really been that long?
<popey> i would not be surprised if bubbles were clickable in a future release
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
<ali1234> i'm only surprised that it has taken so long for you to notice how problematic these things are
<bigcalm> popey: you have an obscure sense of 'traffic'
<AlanBell> I had no bubbles up until a few weeks ago
<popey> heh
<AlanBell> if your right monitor is lower than your left monitor you get no bubbles
<ali1234> while we're at it, the 1 inch gap between the panel and the notification looks just as stupid now as it did when it was implemented
<AlanBell> ali1234: ah, in that case position the top of your right monitor 1 inch below the top of your left monitor :)
<ali1234> my right monitor is lower by just enough that the bubble is in the exact location it should be instead of 1 inch below
<ali1234> yes, basically i already did that accidentally
<ali1234> i even reported it as a bug... 6 months or so ag
<ali1234> o
<ali1234> or maybe i went to do it and it was already reported
<AlanBell> bug 935131
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 935131 in libnotify (Ubuntu) "if the rightmost screen is not as high as the aggregate rectangle notifications are off screen" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/935131
<ali1234> well thats not my bug
<ali1234> bug 779612
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 779612 in notify-osd (Ubuntu) "Notifications appear vertically shifted on second monitor" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/779612
<ali1234> did you just upgrade from lts today or something?
<AlanBell> hmm?
<ali1234> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/71380064/volume.png ah remember when you ddidn't have to use one of the awful new themes?
<AlanBell> I like the new theme
<ali1234> i don't
<ali1234> it looks terrible when you use gnome-panel 3
<ali1234> all three of them
<ali1234> hmm a bug
<ali1234> hmm another bug
<ali1234> bugs
<ali1234> argh ANOTHER BUG
<ali1234> ok i have some bug reporting to do
<AlanBell> wonder if anyone is still maintaining notify-osd
<popey> bug 811475
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 811475 in One Hundred Paper Cuts "Descender letters (g j p q y) get their tail cut off in current song" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/811475
<popey> *boggle* how long that has been open
<ali1234> i wish apport and launchpad were smart enough to report bugs on PPA instead of just saying "not official package gtfo"
<popey> "This is one of many problems with the current layout.  It will be fixed by the
<popey> new layout some time."
<ali1234> popey: not as long as my notify-osd bug
<popey> heh
<AlanBell> wow, that is papercutish
<ali1234> bug 958769
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 958769 in kazam (Ubuntu) "recording region selector window can't be moved over the top panel" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/958769
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rr1gZVRTo6o
<ali1234> basically, indicators don't have a delay if you very quickly mouse over them on the way to a menu item
<ali1234> the old gnome panels used to have this
<ali1234> you now have to carefully move the mouse to where you are going without going over something else on the way
<ali1234> its like one of those steady hand games
 * popey confirms
<ali1234> i didn't report it yet!
<ali1234> or you mean kazam?
<popey> yes
<ali1234> any idea what i should report this against?
<popey> and whilst confirming discocvered bug 958777
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 958777 in kazam (Ubuntu) "region window can be dragged off screen" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/958777
<ali1234> yeah with alt-drag you can drag it completely off the screen
<ali1234> it doesn't hurt recording though
<popey> sure, makes no sense tho :)
<ali1234> true enough
<ali1234> the bugs sure are coming in fast btw
<ali1234> almost one a minute on a sunday evening?
<popey> some are automagic
<popey> and not on ubuntu
<popey> bu70
<popey> bah
<popey> bug 958770
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 958770 in NUnit V2 "Add Assert.Throws( Func<T> ) for properties" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/958770
<popey> bug 958771
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 958771 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "package grub-pc 1.98-1ubuntu13 failed to install/upgrade: Unterprozess installiertes post-installation-Skript gab den Fehlerwert 10 zurÃ¼ck" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/958771
<popey> bug 958772
<lubotu3> Error: Bug #958772 is a duplicate of bug #957441, but it is private (https://launchpad.net/bugs/957441)
<popey> hehe
<ali1234> so, any idea about my indicator thing?
<popey> sunday is a typical evening for bug hunting I think
<popey> i dont understand it
<ali1234> report against indicator package or design?
<ali1234> er
<ali1234> basically
<ali1234> click the power button thing
<ali1234> the move the mouse diagonally in a straight line to where it says "system settings"
<popey> hah, i see
<ali1234> over the word "system"
<ali1234> this takes the mouse over the user indicator, which opens
<ali1234> then you end up clicking on "switch user" accidentally
<dogmatic69> if you run memtest on good ram, will it show 0 errors? or is there an acceptable limit?
<popey> indicator-session
<popey> I'd file against that
<ali1234> in gnome, if you made this kind of motion very quickly, it would simply ignore the intermediate things you travelled over
<ali1234> in unity, it's time to play the steady hand game
<ali1234> dogmatic69: good ram should have zero errors
<dogmatic69> :S
<ali1234> but erros isn't necessarily bad ram
<dogmatic69> so 500k errors is not good ram?
<ali1234> you might be using the wrong clock or voltage
<dogmatic69> been the same for 3+ years
<popey> or wrong ram
<ali1234> 500k errors is OMG GET A NEW COMPUTER
<dogmatic69> :/
<dogmatic69> then my bank acc is gonna have 500k errors
<ali1234> 1 or 2 errors is enough to completely mess up the machine
<dogmatic69> bah
<ali1234> popey: hmm indicator-session?
<dogmatic69> and its old ram, Its going to be $$$
<ali1234> the bug affects all indicators
<ali1234> dogmatic69: yeah, so just buy a new motherboard cpu and ram
<ali1234> i'm going to open it as a design bug
<ali1234> it's a feature request really
<ali1234> this might actually be a regression in gtk3? menus are doing it too
<ali1234> but maybe it is because they are global menus
<ali1234> firefox bookmarks toolbar is still showing the old behaviour
<ali1234> right clikc pop up menus too
<ali1234> hmm yes ok, this affects anything that involves the top panel
<AlanBell> wonder if I can fix that rhythmbox bug
 * popey installs banshee
<ali1234> this must have a name
<ali1234> every single desktop environemtn does it- except for unity
<diplo> evening all
<popey> why have we regressed back to one pixel wide handles for resizing windows?
<ali1234> because the dropshadow utterly killed the performance?
<daubers> popey: I had that for a little bit. Updated recently and it went away
<AlanBell> the dropshadow is still there, you just can't use it any more :(
<AlanBell> there is a bug for it
<ali1234> how to i get the right-click-title-bar on maximised windows again?
<daubers> ah no, it's still there :(
<AlanBell> ali1234: alt-space
<ali1234> doesn't work
<AlanBell> wfm
<ali1234> i have disabled the hud
<AlanBell> that HUD alt key binding has been a complete farce
<ali1234> yep
<MartijnVdS> Except disabling it disables ALL alt bindings
<MartijnVdS> or has that been fixed
<AlanBell> it has caused so many issues in its various implementations, and it has nothing to do with the functionality of the HUD
<ali1234> i was going to say "everyne knows you;re supposed to resize windows by spressing alt-space, selecting resize, then shuffling around with the arrow keys until the window is the size you want"
<AlanBell> the root problem is that they are trying to use a meta key as a single keypress
<ali1234> i have actually seen idiots claim this is a better way to resize on OMG ubuntu
<ali1234> but since that way doesn't even work now
<ali1234> i can't make a sarcastic joke out of it
<ali1234> it's just well and truly broken :/
<SuperEngineer> 0/
<popey> ali1234: erk, that resize option is nastyily broken
<popey> do you know if there is a bug for it?
<ali1234> no idea. i did notice it was broken too
<ali1234> but since i never use it, i don't care :)
<ali1234> it is only interesting to me in that it is yet another thing that worked until unity came along
<SuperEngineer> just booted to 10.04 - got sick of 12.04 app version fails [evolution format not compatible with 10.04 version, gwibber won't successfully authorise facebook [etc,etc]
<ali1234> "gwibber won't successfully authorise facebook" - funny story
<SuperEngineer> .... time for bug reporting methinks - if only I hadn't got other stuff to do as well...
<ali1234> i was trying to explain to the dash lens developers why i don't want every website integrated into the desktop
<ali1234> one of the reasons is, as soon as the website changes, the lens will break
<ali1234> just like gwibber always does
<ali1234> they didn't listen of course
<SuperEngineer> ali1234: +1 on that
<ali1234> "we will keep it up to date" they said
<hamitron> dunno why an OS can't be an OS, and a website a website
<ali1234> "well how about you start by keeping gwibber up to date" i said
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: http://www.quickmeme.com/They-said/ ?
<SuperEngineer> as in... [I have a piece of paer in my hand - #chamberlin said]
<SuperEngineer> btw - my comments are not a whinge at Ubuntu... but at the apps within
<dogmatic69> how is that for luck... first ram module removed, no errors \o/
<MartijnVdS> hotplugging RAM?
<dogmatic69> nope
<dogmatic69> new ram in the post, + shiny ssd
<SuperEngineer> "first ram module removed, no errors" = a successful lambing at a farm?
<dogmatic69> right, pc not crashing any more
<dogmatic69> and its actually faster with 6gigs of good ram vs 8gigs of broken ram
<SuperEngineer> dogmatic69: did you try cleaning the contact strip on the ram & reseating... may be worth a try
<dogmatic69> SuperEngineer: not tried that, the pc is 5+ years old
<dogmatic69> its a intel Q6600 and I got it virtually the day they were released
<SuperEngineer> [or running a full ram test?]...   if pc is 5+ old - worth a clean [& a precautionary reseating of 'good' ram
<SuperEngineer> ...you'd be surprised how mant times I've resussitated dead machines by cleaning/reseating/swapping slots
<dogmatic69> I just ran mem test for 2 1/2 hours
<SuperEngineer> &...?
<dogmatic69> is that memtest like defrag for mem?
<dogmatic69> memtest == 500k errors
<SuperEngineer> ouch
<dogmatic69> removed the dodgy one and 0 errors, running 3x 2gigs now
<SuperEngineer> clean /reseat but probably the big ram bin in the sky is correct
<dogmatic69> got 4x corsair 6400c5c in the shopping cart
<SuperEngineer> :)
<dogmatic69> get that + SSD and it should be good for a while again
<dogmatic69> how easy would it be to reinstall ubuntu on ssd and tell it to use the /home/{me} on another disk?
<SuperEngineer> just an a quickie... last week got sent to site where basic report was "failed - smells of burning"]
<dogmatic69> lol
<SuperEngineer> I arrived on site & they'd left it switched on!
<dogmatic69> lmao
<dogmatic69> converted into a paper weight
<SuperEngineer> lmfao is just what I did
<dogmatic69> did it still smell like burning?
<SuperEngineer> noooo... much worse - battery on a board had exploded - toxic fumes everywhere!
<MartijnVdS> magic smoke!
 * SuperEngineer preferes magic mushrooms
<dogmatic69> tricky to replace the magic smoke, never did find a good supplier
<AlanBell> popey: I think the rhythmbox thing is a GTK bug
<AlanBell> on the plus side I do have a patch, but it will stop it truncating very long song names to ellipsise them
<SuperEngineer> Whilst Slashdot [can] be a p[ain - sometimes you read a real doozy... "New iPad Jailbroken Already" [aww, go on Apple, smile if you dare]
<jacobw> doozy?
<jacobw> that's so not a word
<SuperEngineer> neither is jailbroken
<jacobw> sure it is
<jacobw> it comes from the old english, 'gaolbroken'
<jacobw> ;)
<SuperEngineer> prove it - goalbreak an iPad
<SuperEngineer> in old english they would have goal broken or goal-broken
<jacobw> goal? as in football?
 * SuperEngineer apologises for being a smart-a**
<SuperEngineer> ok - if you insist  g-a-o-l... what d'yu want from a man who's been working - perfection?  oh,. damn, yes, they all do ;)
<jacobw> :)
<SuperEngineer> anyone here trying 12.04, using Gwibber *and* has a 10.04 Gwibber installed?  Could it be a conflict [evene though no prob was in 11.10]?
<SuperEngineer> anyone here know of a [good] Gwibber substitute for monitoring facebook?
<SuperEngineer> oh wel - just as I thought - I
<SuperEngineer> *am* unique ;)  [mummy always aid I was]
<SuperEngineer> *said
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0mv7DFQF3c
<popey> reckon that's a compiz bug?
<AlanBell> yeah, in the resize plugin I should think
<AlanBell> if it doesn't do that in unity2d
<popey> ah good call
<popey> unity 2d is way better
<popey> it resizes dynamically as you move the keys
<AlanBell> well so will compiz if you let it
<popey> I mean OOTB
<popey> Grrrr
<AlanBell> yeah, the default settings for compiz really don't show off what it can do, I have no idea why Canonical don't let it shine
<popey> firefox, i had loads of pinned tabs, and ended up closing the one with all the tabs open, then another firefox window I had
<popey> so ff remembered the empty one
<popey> thats utterly broken
<popey> why the hell would I want to remember a blank window and not a multitabbed window
<diplo> popey, it's been like that for years
<popey> which, compiz or ff?
<diplo> Sorry FF
<diplo> Always make sure I close / check what windows I have open first
<diplo> Sure it does it on win 7 as well
#ubuntu-uk 2013-03-11
<TheOpenSourcerer> G4rd3nH0
<redtape-renegade> TheOpenSourcere1, Morning.. Hows the maping project going that you blogged about last month (pos. Jan.) ??
<TheOpenSourcere1> redtape-renegade: Morning. It's out and running :-) http://forge.vtiger.com/projects/geotools/
<redtape-renegade> opening .. glad to see it shine ..
<TheOpenSourcere1> Have fixed a few bugs - made a major improvement in the way it all works and have received 4 translations.
<Knightwise> TheOpenSourcere1: did you by any chance blurt out a password there ?
<TheOpenSourcere1> nope. not me.
<Knightwise> G4rd3nH0
<Knightwise> < TheOpenSourcerer> G4rd3nH0
<TheOpenSourcere1> Hmm - odd.
<ali1234> TheOpenSourcere1: from your same IP too
<TheOpenSourcere1> Gosh  - really. Must have been my twin brother then
<ali1234> a likely story
<ali1234> wow, i just found 3 BTC on an exchange account i totally forgot about
<TheOpenSourcere1> How do I disable some of the stupid & really annoying "automatically make my window full height even though I don't want it to be" stuff in Unity?
<ali1234> can you be more specific?
<TheOpenSourcere1> no
<ali1234> do you mean grid plugin?
<TheOpenSourcere1> do i?
<ali1234> i don't know
<TheOpenSourcere1> neither do i
<TheOpenSourcere1> I just know that its bloody annoying when I drag a window around and all of a sudden it goes full height
<ali1234> on half the screen?
<TheOpenSourcere1> This is more like at the top
<ali1234> sounds like grid plugin
<popey> yeah, it is
<jacobw> Morning
<popey> just disable it in ccsm
<TheOpenSourcere1> Ah ccsm.
<TheOpenSourcere1> and it is called what?
<ali1234> ...grid plugin
<popey> just search for grid in the top left of ccsm
<ali1234> under window management
<TheOpenSourcere1> Ta.
<ali1234> i just realised i'm not even using compiz right now
<ali1234> "extended KDE testing"
<ali1234> it's been a couple of days and i haven't ragequit yet, so it is clearly improving
<TheOpenSourcere1> hoorah - thanks that's worked.
<redtape-renegade> Did anyone see if the 2 part tv thingy called Shetland was any good last night ? Is it wort turning in tonight @ 9pm ?
<directhex> is it about ponies?
<redtape-renegade> directhex, I think it's about some investigation by a bobby in Shetland  .. something about 'remains' ..
<directhex> so not an hour long version of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ekr05T9Iaio ?
<directhex> because i'd watch that
<redtape-renegade> opening..
<redtape-renegade> directhex, Haha .. that's a proper Morn. Meme to laugh at .. Ghehe.
<redtape-renegade> Apparently to cold wind in the air, is a direct draft from Siberia by all acounts.
<JamesTait> Happy Moshoeshoe Day, everyone! :-D
<mungbean> ali1234: have you been able to prettify kde? screenshot?
<ali1234> mungbean: not really, no, but it is reasonable
<ali1234> i'm not using any KDE applications for a start, that really helps
<mungbean> even the systray is ugly though
<popey> but amarok is the best media player there is!
<mungbean> 1.4 was popey :D
<popey> lies
<popey> winamp was
<mungbean> clementine is now the best
<popey> before AOL took over
<ali1234> http://imagebin.org/249829
<ali1234> i removed the system tray entirely
<mgdm> I did like how I could make a recent Winamp look somewhat like it did in 2000
<mgdm> Oh, and now I've been reminded of XMMS
<ali1234> gave up trying to fix it
<popey> \o/ crud
<ali1234> i don't actually miss the systray at all, weirdly enough
<mungbean> what are you using instead?
<ali1234> nothing
<Laney> gruh
<Laney> the snow is really coming down now
<ali1234> turns out i don't actually need to look at network manager icon all the time
<ali1234> oh wow so it is
<diplo> Looks nice ali1234
<ali1234> KDE doesn't understand the idea of monochrome icons
<ali1234> ONE colour + transparent pixels
<mungbean> ali1234: whats that along the bottom though? i still see the cashew
<ali1234> bottom left: shortcut icons for common used apps so i never have to suffer the pain of KDE's start menu
<ali1234> then task bar
<ali1234> then the desktop pager
<ali1234> then the clock
<ali1234> and the cashew... cannot ever be removed
<mungbean> dolphin still looks ugly and incongruous
<ali1234> lol now it's sunny... and snowing at the same time
<mungbean> "stealth cashew?"
<mungbean> http://askubuntu.com/questions/24867/how-do-i-remove-the-kde-4-plasma-tool-box-cashew-icon-from-the-desktop
<ali1234> clicking that opens the panel config
<ali1234> unless you mean the thing in top right
<ali1234> i don't even know what that is supposed to do
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<mungbean> was an avid kde user , they lost me when they ripped out the guts of every app
<ali1234> and yeah dolphin looks bad because there are no good themes that work with gtk and qt
<mungbean> too much habit of ripping everything up and starting again, never finishing
<ali1234> if you want KDE and gtk to match you have to use oxygen... and that just makes everything look equally awful
<diplo> Anyone use Cisco Unified Commication Manager in here ?
<diplo> CUCM
<ali1234> plasma theme is called "vintage" btw
<ali1234> and window decorations are called "chrome" - i think it's a copy of google chrome?
<popey> i thought all the bits around the window were called chrome
<popey> they've certainly been called chrome in firefox for years
<popey> (unless my sarcasm detector is broken)
<ali1234> no the theme
<ali1234> http://kde-look.org/content/show.php/Chrome+Grayscale+Aurorae?content=119168
<redtape-renegade> Hurray for the Commonwealth charter http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/queen-to-sign-new-charter-backing-equal-rights-for-gay-people-across-commonwealth-8528587.html  :: Shout out to all those manscaping today !!
<mungbean> redtape-renegade: dude. how offtopic can you get?
<ali1234> and technically chrome in firefox sense means the address bar and menus and stuff
<redtape-renegade> sorry wrong channel. sorry.
<ali1234> everything inside the window that isn't the html page
<Laney> we have a topic?
<popey> < mungbean> i hear the pope is resigning
<popey> ahem âº
<mungbean> well he does frequent this channel
<jpds> popey: "amen"?
<TheOpenSourcere1> ty for the rt popey
<popey> np
<TheOpenSourcere1> ty for the rt czajkowski (What happened to the paddies on Saturday then? Thought you had that one in the bag?)
<czajkowski> me too :(
<brobostigon> douglas adam's birthday, :), all hail genius.
<redtape-renegade> ACTION: Topic needs to be changed, I suggest 'the convergence' strategy as a possible lay-topic to get people talking.
<redtape-renegade> popey: just sayin'
<andrewebdev> I wish there was Omnigraffe level of software on Linux :(
<andrewebdev> I'm finding myself jumping between multiple different apps in an attempt to build interactive wireframes
<mungbean> got my first pack of sugru - the ultimate modders tool \o/
<redtape-renegade> AMD heatsink CPU bracket hasn't arrived today [on top postal price avail./ bought on Friday 'noon] .. Amazon cost me poss. Â£900 for that. Guriers 'these sellers' are to me.
 * redtape-renegade heads for the bus-stop for coffee Rep. solace
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | next meeting TBA | ubuntuî¿ |
<popey> !away
<lubotu3> Please do not use noisy away messages and nicks in Ubuntu channels. It is annoying and unnecessary. Use the command "/away <reason>" to set your client away silently. See also Â«/msg lubotu3 GuidelinesÂ»
<popey> âº
<redtape-AFK> oh thanx.
<davmor2> Morning all
<kvarley> What do you think of the piston specs?
<kvarley> http://rootgamer.com/news/xi3-accepting-preorders-steampiston
<ali1234> it's not something i would buy
<ali1234> hopefully it encourages ATI to improve their drivers?
<kvarley> ali1234: Seems expensive
<directhex> the piston is not being shipped by valve. don't take its price as meaning anything. there is no economy of scale in xi3's component pricing.
<ali1234> yeah $1000 is too much for a games console
<ali1234> though for a real HTCP, maybe it's not bad
<ali1234> *HTPC
<ali1234> i don't really like minipcs though. they tend to melt
<ali1234> and then there's zero chance to repair them because none standard parts
<ali1234> so yeah, i would not buy this
<kvarley> Any ideas how I can tell what thickness 2.5" drive I need to buy for a laptop without opening the laptop?
<kvarley> Acer Aspire 5920
<kvarley> Old thing, quite thick so I think it'll just be the standard 2.5" size and not the 7mm thick one
<directhex> kvarley, it's *probably* 9.5mm, but no, no way to tell
<directhex> unless you pull the specs on the factory-shipped drive
<kvarley> Ah, the laptop is on Crucial
<kvarley> So I'll just use their search tool :)
<kvarley> Thanks directhex
<directhex> the piston cpu is a A10-4600M
<Laney> Someone who knows about DIY look at these pictures and tell me if you think it looks like damp to you please: http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/damp/
<Laney> The dark/discoloured patches feel wet and those weird drips started appearing in the last couple of days
<ali1234> condensation or a leak
<ali1234> also the streaks on the wall
<kvarley> directhex:  Should be pretty easy to keep cool then
<popey> kvarley: I'd just run "smartctl" and get the model number of the drive
<directhex> 35W component
<directhex> looks like $100 a processor in bulk. give or take.
<kvarley> popey: Thanks
<kvarley> directhex: I've seen the model up from that chip running fanless
<kvarley> Much higher TDP
<ali1234> Laney: is that in multiple rooms?
<ali1234> you seem to have a lot of condensation on your windows too
<kvarley> popey: That is a LOT of info about one drive 0.o
<kvarley> Any ideas where I can find out how much RAM a laptop can take? I can't see any mention of it in the manual
<popey> what cpu is it?
<kvarley> One sec
<kvarley> popey: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU     T7300  @ 2.00GHz
<kvarley> Acer Aspire 5920
<popey> http://ark.intel.com/products/29760/Intel-Core2-Duo-Processor-T7300-4M-Cache-2_00-GHz-800-MHz-FSB
<popey> hmm
<popey> how many slots does it have?
<mgdm> kvarley: I quite often just use crucial.com/uk for that
<popey> sudo dmidecode
<mgdm> whether or not I buy the RAM there
<AlanBell> Laney: it isn't rising damp (that comes up) it is a leaky roof or gutter
<kvarley> popey: 2 slots
<popey> i do usually too, but had an instance where crucial was wrong
<AlanBell> Laney: or pipe
<kvarley> mgdm: It recommends 2x 2GB sticks
<Laney> AlanBell: yeah I suspected as much
<Laney> both of those rooms are on the same side and there's no problem like that on the other
<kvarley> popey: Some forum threads say you can but it will only address 6.75 GB of it
<kvarley> popey: That you can put 2x 4GB sticks in
<kvarley> popey: Chipset spec says 4GB is the max memory size supported
<kvarley> I'll just go with 4GB
<kvarley> They're getting an SSD and twice the RAM so it's not a bad deal
<popey> should fly
<popey> what's it running?
<czajkowski> xnox: enjoy saturday ?
<kvarley> popey: xubuntu
<popey> nice
<kvarley> popey: It's my Dad's laptop, he's used to the GNOME2 layout still otherwise he'd be on Unity :)
<popey> xubuntu should fly on that
<xnox> czajkowski: i should have had a better prepared talk, as it seems like there was demand even for the simple things I do day-to-day.
<xnox> czajkowski: more coca-cola and more sprite needed.
<kvarley> popey: Hopefully, this is a follow up to my questions the other day about the faulty partition on a hard drive.
<czajkowski> xnox: working on sorting out a date for the next one
<xnox> czajkowski: house mates ate all sandwiches without leaving a single one for me.
<xnox> czajkowski: overall it was good.
<czajkowski> xnox: aye that was the only complaint I got the lack of drink availability lke tea/coffee but we did have water and there was a tesco around the corner. We did have loads of foods :)
<xnox> czajkowski: do you need any donations for budget / to run the event?
<czajkowski> having 9 talks that just appeared on the day ws amazing
<czajkowski> xnox: we had Basho sponsor the foods this time
<czajkowski> I kinda dont want to get into the area of accepting donations as then  it actually becomes more work with banks and declaring monies
<czajkowski> we had 32 people there which was good for the first ever event
<xnox> czajkowski: did i miss a Riak talk then?
 * xnox wants to learn more about riak
<czajkowski> nope thye just kindly sponsored but no talk
<czajkowski> hopefully the next time
<czajkowski> xnox: thanks for coming though :)
 * xnox ponders to take a short university course at City University London
<czajkowski> on ?
<xnox> http://www.city.ac.uk/courses/short-courses/object-oriented-programming-using-c.html
<xnox> C++
<czajkowski> oh god
<czajkowski> I'm having flash backs to that module
<xnox> Maybe you can be my mentor \o/
<kvarley> Does /proc/meminfo tell you how much RAM is in each slot?
<czajkowski> used to have to do OO C++ in 2nd year and then deal with multi choice negative marking
<czajkowski> xnox: eh no
<czajkowski> I loath it
<xnox> Well, in uni I did crazy concurrency programming with VHDL, Verilog and programming FPGAs, as well as OS-level programming in C for a DOS like chip. But none of this crazy OO in C++.
<mgdm> I'd probably rather the VHDL etc
<mgdm> C++ is hideous
<davmor2> xnox: the men in white coats are aware of your location if you could just stay there, they have one of those nice jackets that fastens at the back
 * xnox *jackets* \o/
<kvarley> How can I download a file via terminal when there isn't a direct link to the file? For example I'm presented with example.com/some/path/file/-/view/28485727/
<kvarley> Turns out wget managed it with the -O flag
<amayer> kvarley: i was going to say wget has an option for follow links or something like that
<kvarley> Reliable, secure, IMAP email server package for Ubuntu Server 12.04 ?
<mgdm> Dovecot
<directhex> kvarley, dovecot?
<kvarley> mgdm directhex: Easy to configure? Web UI?
<mgdm> No web UI, but it's pretty simple to set up
<kvarley> mgdm: Ok, ty :)
<kvarley> Hurray for the help.ubuntu.com pages
<directhex> generally the web ui for imap servers is a separate thing
<directhex> there are many choices
<directhex> we just rolled out sogo
<kvarley> directhex:  Ok, thanks I'll check it out
<Azelphur> I think when health and safety inspectors come to visit me on Wednesday they are gonna have a field day, https://www.dropbox.com/s/jo537hl9dvqcsg7/2013-03-11%2013.30.13.mp4 xD
<czajkowski> jelmer: \o/
<directhex> apparently Azelphur lives in post-zombie-apocalypse england
<Azelphur> indeed
<directhex> i suggest you get a cricket bat ASAP
<Azelphur> XD
<directhex> braaaaaaaains
<Azelphur> It's amusing because the landlord knows I'm taking legal action and getting inspectors round
<Azelphur> and he still leaves it :D
<kvarley> Easiest way to make all future directories and files within /srv/* belong to the www-data group?
<SuperMatt> you could set chmod g+s (I think)
<directhex> yep
<kvarley> What does g+s do?
<directhex> sticky bit
<directhex> as in "this permission persists to all children"
<kvarley> g = ? s = ?
<directhex> g for group
<SuperMatt> it means that anything created under that directory keeps the same group
<directhex> s for sticky
<kvarley> Ok
<kvarley> Is it recursive?
<directhex> it's not retroactive.
<SuperMatt> *should* be
<SuperMatt> and what directhex said
<directhex> i.e. you need to do it recursively once, and it'll work for future file/folder creation by itself
<kvarley> So # "chown -R username:www-data . && chmod g+s www-data ." will do/
<kvarley> *?
<mungbean> Azelphur: did you move out of your parents?
<Azelphur> mungbean: yea, been on my own for 4 months now
<Azelphur> admittedly my first choice of landlord was...not a good one
<mungbean> and you have junkie zombies in your garden?
<Azelphur> haha
<mungbean> zombies need beds too
<SuperMatt> kvarley: not quite
<Azelphur> true :P
<SuperMatt> kvarley: you'll need to recurse the +s too
<mungbean> Azelphur: you working?
<SuperMatt> otherwise if you create something under a dir that already exists, it won't pick up the permissions
<Azelphur> not yet, but probably soon
<mungbean> you could do a deal with teh landlord that you will clear the garbage for a price
<Azelphur> mungbean: problem is it's not just the garbage, there's a long list of around 30 things
<mungbean> looks nasty
<Azelphur> is nasty \o/
<directhex> kvarley, chmod -R
<directhex> er, wait
<directhex> chmod -R g+s .
<directhex> chmod doesn't deal in usernames or groups, just permissions
<kvarley> directhex: ah ok, ty
<kvarley> Done that and now it shows the right group
<kvarley> But I can't write to the directory from my user account
<kvarley> I added myself to the www-data group
<SuperMatt> you may need to log out of your shell and back in again
<SuperMatt> group permissions are not instant
<kvarley> SuperMatt: I was logged in via SSH, I did that
<SuperMatt> they only apply on a new log in
<SuperMatt> type groups at the command line to see what group you're in
<directhex> you set g+s, did you also set g+w (group write)?
<dwatkins> what does "id" say?
<mungbean> what's the best tool for downloading photos from a camera?
<kvarley> dwatkins: that i'm in www-data
<kvarley> directhex: Ah
<mungbean> i.e a single purpose tool
<mungbean> tried rapid photo downloader but it doesn't work
<kvarley> directhex: you were right :) thanks
<ahayzen> czajkowski, AlanBell, xnox and anyone else who attended hackntalk on Saturday. Thanks for creating such an enjoyable event, see you at the next one :)
<xnox> ... and jelmer =)
<ahayzen> :)
 * Laney points a big heater outside to speed up the arrival of spring
<kvarley> Is there a service that will act kind of like dropbox and detect changes in a directory and then sync them to an external hard drive?
<SuperMatt> well
<SuperMatt> you could use deja-dup
<SuperMatt> but that's not on a per-change basis
<kvarley> SuperMatt: I think I'll use that daily and also install seafile for documents only
<kvarley> SuperMatt: Will deja-dup check to see if a file is newer or will it just copy all regardless?
<SuperMatt> rsync might be more what you want
<SuperMatt> deja dup does lots of compression and stuff
<kvarley> Is there a good GUI available for rsync?
<SuperMatt> I don't know
<kvarley> ok, ty
<SuperMatt> have a look in the software center for rsync
<SuperMatt> I'm seeing that Unison might be good
<mgdm> kvarley: http://git-annex.branchable.com/assistant/ ?
<SuperMatt> fact is, there are loads of ways you can do this kind of thing
<SuperMatt> personally, I use rsync because I just put in the commanad I want, create a cron job, and forget all about it
<kvarley> SuperMatt: Unison looks like what I want
<kvarley> SuperMatt: Hard to tell, it's not for me so I'm having trouble deciding
<kvarley> Unison will be more I/O intensive than a cronjob
<directhex> unison /o\
<SuperMatt> kvarley: what you should do is research deja dup, rsync, unison, and other tools, in an offline environment and see which one you feel more confortable with
<kvarley> directhex: Why /0\ hehe
<directhex> unison is fine as long as you don't want history, don't mind accidentally squashing changes, and don't want access from more than one distro
<SuperMatt> I have wasted a lot of time in the past working hard to get one method to work, when I could have used a different tool to do it easily
<directhex> the latter two are major issues for multi-user repos
<kvarley> It's for my parents
<diplo> rsync tbh
<diplo> :)
<kvarley> Ok :)
<SuperMatt> learn rsync, it'll change your life
<kvarley> Does rsync hash check? Or does it just copy everything?
<SuperMatt> it can do whatever you want it to do ;)
<SuperMatt> you can do things by time
<SuperMatt> you can do things by md5sum
<kvarley> SuperMatt: Ok I'm sold :D
<SuperMatt> you can tell it never to overwrite a file, instead putting it into a backup folder
<SuperMatt> which is what I do
<SuperMatt> but *LEARN* it first
<kvarley> Does it log when it completes a backup?
<SuperMatt> I'm not so sure about that
<SuperMatt> you could probably script something to do it
<kvarley> SuperMatt: This grsync GUI is pretty good
<SuperMatt> cool
<kvarley> Shows all the CLI flags it uses too :)
<SuperMatt> but I really suggest learning how the command line works
<kvarley> SuperMatt: OK :)
<SuperMatt> because it'll make a lot of your every day tasks a lot easier
<BigRedS> learn rsync? isn't that a bit like learning sendmail?
<BigRedS> just learn how to do whatever it is you wanbt to do with rsync, and assume it's also able to do almost everything else
<mungbean> do bricks and mortar stores like currys do price match against amazon?
<zleap> dunno
<Laney> doubt it
<zleap> thing is amazon sell stuff through other vendoes
<zleap> vendors
<mungbean> want a dvd player but some compalints on amazon that its noisy
<popey> john lewis do i believe
<directhex> richer sounds do.
<directhex> and i think john lewis
<directhex> check their websites
<mungbean> all a bit far away
<mungbean> wanted to walk in and try
<mungbean> i can walk in and then buy on amazon later i suppose
<Laney> phone
<mungbean> if a dvd player is hdmi only, how do i plug it into my crt telly with scart only?
<directhex> you don't.
<davmor2> mungbean: most appliances in store won't be plugged in anyway
<mungbean> oh
<popey> but a new telly
<popey> *buy
<mungbean> have a new baby on thursday
<directhex> the lower-end dvd players will probably do scart
<mungbean> Â£Â£Â£ -> nappies --> poo
<directhex> not like video quality matters with scart, you won't be losing much by getting a bad player
<mungbean> directhex: yes, the one i want is scart only but has usb in , so a bonus
<mungbean> except if its noisy
<mungbean> or breaks easily like my philips dvd writer
<mungbean> v disappointed with that
<zleap> scart is terrible sometimes,   i have a rgb lead thing now much better connections
<directhex> 21 pins in a connector with no real grip? that's a tough job
<directhex> personally i'm glad of HDMI
<mgdm> SCART is the PHP of electrical connectors
<czajkowski> ahayzen: glad you enjoyed it, there will be another one in a few months
<mungbean> i will probably only change telly when my crt blows up
<directhex> a new TV was one of the first things we bought when my wife and i moved in together
<directhex> her parents had given us an old CRT, but the remote was lost, and there was no way to get a universal remote to send the "scart now plz" signal to it
<directhex> making it useless for games, and therefore for everything
<ali1234> that happened to a friend of mine
<directhex> Â£650 we spent on a 26" samsung 1366x768 lcd
<ali1234> spent ages trying to figure out the remote codes
<ali1234> ended up putting a laptop in front of the tv and watching movies on that
<mungbean> lcd tellys are quite cheap now
<mungbean> but i generally have a make do and mend attitude
<mungbean> and as soon as you upgrade your telly then all your SD stuff looks poor
<ali1234> cheap LCDs probably aren't as good as your CRT though, if it's a decent one
<directhex> i have a spidey sense for failing technology
<ali1234> not that i consider Â£650 to be cheap
<mungbean> yes, it's that silver panasonic/sony jobby
<mungbean> thinking 300Â£ for a 32 inch lcd
<directhex> every time i tell myself "nah, you're being paranoid, it'll be fine", it blows up within the week
<ali1234> a cheap LCD definitely will make SD content look worse, especially if it's interlaced
<directhex> i should trust my gut more. it's never wrong on this stuff
<ali1234> a good one though... will make it look far better
<directhex> upgraded to a new tv at xmas 2011
<directhex> previous one made it, what, 5 years?
<directhex> that's a reasonable time to keep an lcd without needing to worry about backlight replacment
<popey> ffs. i have called the LG repair centre twice now to pay to get my Nexus 4 repaired, "We'll call you back to take credit card details. can't take them now, data protection issue"
<popey> what the actual f
<popey> (they haven't called back)
<directhex> popey, pathetic :/
<directhex> go go lucky goldstar!
<popey> seriously not buying google hardware again
<czajkowski> :/
<czajkowski> that is bad
<directhex> popey, if you buy a google phone from google, imho google should be the ones providing support. if they can't manage that, they shouldn't be selling hardware
<popey> its not even LG who provide the support, it's a 3rd (4th?) party
<directhex> popey, does beg the question what would happen if you paid Â£450 for an lg optimus g, not a google nexus 4, from a support standpoint
<popey> i suspect the same
<directhex> indeed
<popey> without the awful phone call with google up front
<ali1234> anyone want to take bets on which company has one letter in common with "intel" and is interested in wayland?
<ali1234> i can only think of 4 and it's almost certainly not 3 of them
<directhex> ali1234, i suspect i can't answer that question.
<mungbean> ali1234: whats the source of the riddle?
<ali1234> oh i'm certain you can't
<popey> samsung?
<ali1234> that's one of the 3 i don't think it is :)
<popey> heh
<kvarley> Where is best to ask about SSL certificates for apache2 and a real domain?
<popey> startssl are cheap i hear
<kvarley> popey: startssl are free ;)
<directhex> only in some cases
<directhex> i've paid a couple of hundred dollars to startcom in the last week
<kvarley> popey: But I have an issue where without the www works but with it doesn't
<directhex> kvarley, "foobar.com" and "www.foobar.com" need different certificates, OR a single certificate specifying x509v3 alternative subject names for both
<kvarley> directhex: Ok thanks
<kvarley> directhex: What job do you have? You seem to know pretty much everything I ask lol
<directhex> sysadmin
<kvarley> directhex: Explains a lot :)
<kvarley> Is example.com a FQDN or does it need the www ?
<directhex> kvarley, for ssl? again, depends on what you want.
<kvarley> directhex: Sorry this is for email
<kvarley> Postfix specifically
<kvarley> The example given is example.org so I should be ok
<directhex> example.org is a fqdn in this context, assuming your mail server is the holder of the A/CNAME DNS entry for example.org, OR the MX DNS entry
<directhex> typically you'd have a mail server with the MX entry, alongside a web server with the A entry
<kvarley> So should I have actually put mail.mydomain.co.uk ?
<directhex> which email addresses do you want to accept?
<directhex> i mean, let's take an example. the dns zone file for collabora.co.uk includes
<directhex>         IN      MX      5 mail.collabora.co.uk.
<directhex> so the server mail.collabora.co.uk deals with all mail to collabora.co.uk
<kvarley> I want to accept from someString@mydomain.co.uk
<directhex> and in postfix config, mydomain = collabora.co.uk
<mgdm> I have one certificate for mail.mgdm.net which covers SMTP, IMAP, HTTP and my Jabber server, FWIW
<kvarley> Nice
<kvarley> Is that a wildcard cert tho?
<directhex> wildcard certs are dangerous
<mgdm> Nope - just for mail.mgdm.net
<ali1234> eh, so i probably need to sign the CLA
<directhex> i probably signed the CLA once, in my yoof
<directhex> for adding binding generators to various canonical libs
<ali1234> i had to sign the android one the other day to send in a 1 line patch
<ali1234> it was simpler to understand
<directhex> i've never signed a CLA for mono
<jelmer> directhex: mono requires a CLA these days?
<directhex> jelmer, nope! hence never signing one :p
<ali1234> no, i think that's the point
<jelmer> directhex: hah, okay :)
<directhex> jelmer, more accurately, the runtime needs copyright assignment or MIT-licensed patches, one or the other. they don't accept LGPL patches to the runtime
<directhex> since they relicense the runtime as proprietary for use in we-hate-gpl environments like ios or consoles
<ali1234> that's fair enough
<jelmer> directhex: ah, interesting approach (offering MIT license as alternative to contributors who don't want to sign a CLA)
<ali1234> the reason i don't like Canonical's is because it basically says "we can redistribute your code under any license we want, but you can only redistribute our code under the original license" - which is typically GPL3, at leas it is for the project i'm trying to contribute to
<ali1234> this is actually the same as android, but android is permissive t start with, so i'm not getting the short end of the stick there
<directhex> android is apache2 iirc?
<ali1234> i think so, yes
<directhex> microsoft's new favourite license! :p
<ali1234> oh?
<jelmer> directhex: what happened to MS_PL?
<directhex> jelmer, fell out of fashion. thankfully. it was a poorly written license
<directhex> ali1234, most open source releases from MS these days are under apache2
<directhex> e.g. chunks of .net
<ali1234> "chunks" lol
<directhex> "chunks"!
<directhex> i could make a list
<ali1234> it's more amusing to me to imagine it as a bucket of random chunks of.. stuff that i'd rather not know what it is
<davmor2> Yay the epic snow has finally hit us in wolvo
<ali1234> like that stuff they throw in the sea to attract sharks :D
<directhex> .net micro framework (embedded devices version of .net); asp.net mvc 1, 2, 3, 4; entity framework 6; dynamic language runtime; ironpython; ironruby; f#
<directhex> probably more
<ali1234> oh, ironpython... i do like that
<ali1234> the only way to interface .net without going completely insane
<directhex> the only chunk they haven't relicensed from Ms-PL is managed extensibility framework, microsoft's plugin architecture api
<ali1234> directhex: are there any 3d game engines that are BSD-style licensed and work on windows, mac, linux, and android, and are actually good? or am i just wasting my time even looking?
<ali1234> oh, and C++
<directhex> ali1234, torque3d
<ali1234> hmm i forgot that was open sourced recently wasn't it? nice one
<directhex> or ogre?
<ali1234> ogre is what i'm using now
<ali1234> it's a 3d engine, but not a game engine... no sound, no input
<ali1234> sound is killing me
<ali1234> i do really like ogre for 3d though
<ali1234> but i'm lazy and i would like to actually finish this game some time before i die, so looking for something a bit more comprehensive
<mungbean> http://worldofgnome.org/ubuntu-gnome-is-approved-as-an-official-flavor/
<bigcalm> Afternoon peeps
<davmor2> morning bigcalm  how's life
<bigcalm> davmor2: Not long picked up a poorly Hayley from her place of work. So the week is off to a good start. How are you?
<ali1234> so the current plan is to go ahead with 13.04 release as normal, right?
<popey> more or less, yes
<ali1234> what's the latest that could possible change? the day before release?
<davmor2> bigcalm: oh dear tell her I hope she gets better soon :(  I'm good ta, too much to do and not enough time and all that gubbings, but on the whole I'm good.
<popey> i dont think the fact that it will release will change
<ali1234> i think the most sensible option i heard so far is continue 6 monthly releases and only support them for 6 months
<bigcalm> davmor2: such is our lot in life :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: have you taught czajkowski all that you know yet?
<davmor2> bigcalm: indeed but you'd not be happy with too little to do right :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: no you always hold a little back so you are always the master ;)
<bigcalm> davmor2: I don't think that that situation will ever happen, so I don't know how I would react
<bigcalm> Haha
<bigcalm> czajkowski: how do you feel, having davmor2 as your master? ;)
<davmor2> bigcalm: we had a proper head frying day last thursday, but I think czajkowski is happier for it
<bigcalm> :)
<Burnsworthy> No-one around? Would I be better off coming back later?
<davmor2> Burnsworthy: there are people around
<popey> indeed
<jacobw> !ask Burnsworthy
<jacobw> !ask
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<popey> ooh movement on your patch ali1234  âº
<Burnsworthy> Alright - Install of 12.04 hangs after initial boot. power button shows last process was a battery check. Can access root terminal with ctrl-alt-f1. unable to proceed with install. Install machine is sony vaio vgn ns20s, with integrated gpu, 3gb ram, 2.1ghz cpu.
<Burnsworthy> Question: How do I fix this?
<popey> Burnsworthy: did you download 12.04 or do you have a pressed CD?
<Burnsworthy> USB written with startup disk creator from 10.04 netbook edition. I've tried a live install, and one just for installation. Both have the same problem. I've not tried another version, though I know lubuntu 10.04 works fine, since that was what was on the usb previously.
<popey> the reason I ask is that we recently released 12.04.2 http://releases.ubuntu.com/precise/
<popey> which may be newer than the one you downloaded, depending on when you downloaded it
<popey> i.e. what's the filename of the iso you downloaded?
<Burnsworthy> Ah. That is indeed the version I used for the usb.
<popey> ah ok
<Burnsworthy> My intent is to install the os onto a partition on my external drive, so I imagine one solution might be to try a different pc for the install. From what I've seen on google, it may have something to do with my gpu drivers. However, the solutions I saw were seemingly intended for *post* install, so don't help in my case.
<Burnsworthy> Oh, addendum - using another pc isn't possible in this case. My netbook doesn't have the specs to support 12.04.
<popey> Burnsworthy: sorry, pass. I'd try either #ubuntu or http://askubuntu.com/
<popey> directhex: is l4d2 any good?
<popey> seems to be on sale
<directhex> popey, sure, with friends
<^aDaM> Evenings all long time no Cyber Speak, hello to brobostigon popey 2 people that helped me in the Linux world :)
<popey> hi
<popey> directhex: oh, not single player?
<MartijnVdS> popey: it can be played single-player?!
<Burnsworthy> It's still good fun single player, imo. Definitely much better when played with a group though.
<popey> might skip that then
<directhex> popey, meh, bots
<directhex> popey, it's a 4-player co-op game. up to you whether the co-op partners are human or not
<popey> ah
<MartijnVdS> popey: L4D2 has a Linux version now? It's not in my list :(
<^aDaM> I've a bit of a problem my Grub menu is broke, I am using Windows XP Pro 32Bit... and I need to remove everything and start from but can't seem to find out how to remove it properly... I can't access ubuntu as it has broken and dated. I want to get the new copy and start fresh.
<^aDaM> Does anybody know how to remove the Grub menu at the start from Windows XP?
<^aDaM> So I can reinstall a fresh copy of this Ubuntu or would it just overwrite it in the install process?
<popey> the latter
<popey> reinstall will put a fresh grub on the disk
<^aDaM> Ah ok thanks popey, also I have no blank discs whats the other route?
<^aDaM> Oh wait I've a USB Pendrive :)
<popey> !usb
<lubotu3> For information about installing Ubuntu from USB flash drives, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick - For a persistent live USB install, see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveUsbPendrivePersistent
<popey> :D
<^aDaM> Nicee :D
<^aDaM> Ubuntu IRC Bot has the answer to everything :P
<^aDaM> Well if it wasnt for you and the gang.
<Burnsworthy> Speaking of USBs, any thoughts regarding my query?
<MartijnVdS> argh
<jacobw> Tea, MartijnVdS?
<MartijnVdS> Unity forgot I want sloppy focus + auto-raising windows
<MartijnVdS> AGAIN
<MartijnVdS> for the 600th time.
<MartijnVdS> *fires up dconf-editor*
<MartijnVdS> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/1063617
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1063617 in Compiz "1:0.9.8+bzr3319-0ubuntu1 regression: keeps setting gsettings keys to wrong values" [High,Fix committed]
<redtape-renegade> AlanBell, I just read this off twitter ::::::: Ubuntu GNOME Is Now An Official Ubuntu Flavor wp.me/p34Cwj-xJ 5 hours ago .. Where is the portal for this on the Ubuntu Wiki ?
<^aDaM_> The joys of UNetbootin :)
<^aDaM_> Currently copying Ubuntu 12.10 via UNetbootin on my USB Stick can't wait to test this distro been a while since I have used Linux and any Ubuntu version for that matter.
<^aDaM_> What is a good stable IRC client on 12.10?
<^aDaM_> Before I shoot off and Boot my USB and go ahead with the installation I want a decent client.
<^aDaM_> I'll be back...
<^aDaM_> Boot time !
<AlanBell> redtape-AFK: that is not my project, but I do like the idea of a gnome flavor, Gnome Shell really is rather good
<AlanBell> I am using Unity and Gnome Shell on alternate weeks on 13.04
<AlanBell> this week is a Gnome Shell week, which is great. It is just a touch smoother than unity in window management
<ali1234> why... why would you even do that?
<ali1234> alternate weeks?
<AlanBell> well I want to see how Unity is getting along, but I also want to have some time with a deterministic alt-tab
<ali1234> it just seems like 1 week would be nearly but not quite long enough to settle in
<ali1234> i'd be in a permanent state of confusion if i tried to do that
<AlanBell> well I did spend quite a long time on just Unity and never got settled in
<AlanBell> I hope Unity in QML is going to be better, but I am not sure it is going to be optimised for people who like computers rather than mobile devices
<AlanBell> dunno if alt-tab is going to be using the mouse to pick windows out from the right edge or something
<solutionbckward> Hi, can someone help me with "playonlinux"?
 * popey points at Azelphur 
 * popey goes to bed
 * Azelphur runs
<solutionbckward> =[
<Azelphur> solutionbckward: why not wine? :P
<solutionbckward> idk what im doing, thats why lol
<Azelphur> and what app are you trying to run
<solutionbckward> im trying to play league of legends with my friend
<Azelphur> yea, it's supposed to work in wine
<Azelphur> with a little hackery anyway
<solutionbckward> im seeing tutorials on how with play on linux, but its not coming up in mine when i search it
<Azelphur> if you wanna use playonlinux, might wanna ask in #playonlinux, I've never used it myself
<solutionbckward> i just want it to work
<solutionbckward> my friends getting impatient lol
<Azelphur> it's not going to be quick
<Azelphur> but, http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=19141 has instructions on how to get it running in wine
<solutionbckward> thanks
#ubuntu-uk 2013-03-12
<redtape-renegade> MN Pop Quiz : Have you got it ..... and minus specks of quaver bits : *what's it called*  ? http://imgur.com/D4tiu8J
<redtape-renegade> Aside: Actually how usefull is it in your 'popular' Ubuntu programs ?
<diplo> Morning all
<redtape-renegade> Morning. Chilly one diplo, http://i.imgur.com/yWiyfih.jpg
<diplo> :)
<SuperMatt> morning
<airurando> will do
<JamesTait> Happy World Day Against Cyber Censorship, everyone! :-D
<JamesTait> (That really needs a natty abbreviation)
<DJones> Morning
<redtape-renegade> JamesTait, It's still going you know... http://www.ritetag.com/report/501163f14aa1077014e9f2e4080e55003609441d
<SuperMatt> so, from mark's post last night, are we to start calling +1 "edge?"
<czajkowski> SuperMatt: no he's mailed the TB about it
<czajkowski> TB being the technical board, Laney sits on it
<Laney> no I don't!
<czajkowski> gah
<czajkowski> no DMB
<czajkowski> why do I always think you're on the TB
<Laney> dunno, I'm not that cool :P
<czajkowski> tis ok we can nominate you next time around
<czajkowski> then I'll be right
<czajkowski> :)
<redtape-renegade> SuperMatt, Seems to be seeing the mirrors http://www.ritetag.com/report/501163f14aa1077014e9f2e4080e55003609441d  [on other mobiles]
<redtape-renegade> bad post..
<popey> Morning
<redtape-renegade> Damn Alt-click key ! SuperMatt , ^ http://www.rethink-wireless.com/2013/03/11/shuttleworth-responds-canonical-criticism.htm ^
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<davmor2> Morning all
<czajkowski> peka boo
<SuperMatt> suuuuuup
<davmor2> czajkowski: how old do you think we are, next you'll be blowing raspberries on out bellies
<czajkowski> eh no
<davmor2> hahaha
<redtape-renegade> Do you think we'll be seeing DaRK red with the *Gubuntu Logo* like my X-mini http://imgur.com/ATab1H9 ??
<redtape-renegade> .. oh the AMD cpu heatsink bracket arrived.. Yipppee !
<disharmonia-> Hello
<disharmonia-> shalom
 * dwatkins tells colleagues about Waze after reading in the Telegraph about people stuck on the M23 over night without any information on the traffic
<SuperMatt> what does switching to QML mean for tools that we're used to, like nautilus and evolution?
<popey> nothing
<SuperMatt> so there's no plans to write a new file manager?
<SuperMatt> or anything like that
<popey> there is for phone
<popey> but not for desktop
<popey> anyone tried https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.prowl.torque&feature=search_result#  ?
<czajkowski> AlanBell: popey xnox jelmer picking another date to have the Hackntalk looking like end of June or begining of July any dates I should know about in advance to not clash with
<xnox> czajkowski: not 22nd/23rd of June, away at http://www.volleyballengland.org/competitions/tournaments_and_events/croyde_king_&_queen_of_the_beach
<diplo> popey: Yeah I've used Torque, very good
<diplo> I was using the free version
<popey> what did you use it for?
<diplo> Main reason was to find issues with my car from the ECU, but then used it after for MPG and a load of other stuff, only borrowed it from a friend ( the connector ) but was debating implementing a Phone/Tablet into the dash
<popey> Someone should make a qml version for ubuntu phone ;)
<SuperMatt> it's my plan to learn how to do this qml gubbins
<popey> you should, it's the future!
<SuperMatt> indeed
<SuperMatt> I managed to get a little way in to doing tutorial stuff t'other day
<diplo> popey, going to trying coding myself some apps soon
<popey> sweet!
<diplo> Need a spare phone to tesst on though :/
<popey> no you dont
<czajkowski> xnox: looking at july as tryingto keep it to 4 months
<popey> you can run the apps directly on your ubuntu desktop
<diplo> Do if i want to test Torque type app :)
<popey> not necessarily
<popey> laptop âº
<popey> bluetooth
<popey> job done
<diplo> Good thinking!
<diplo> So just need to park the car within 10 metres of the house :D
<popey> or get a long usb cable to put the bt dongle on :D
<diplo> Hmm another good thought
<jelmer> czajkowski: none that I'm aware of at the moment
<AlanBell> czajkowski: july is good for me
<diplo> Also going to try and write an app for GoodReads
<SuperMatt> so far, I've noted that qml seems to be a bastardisation between python and javascript
<czajkowski> filled in th request for for mid July for the same venue - the cafe
<czajkowski> as that was very nice
<czajkowski> jelmer: you can give a talk the next time
<jelmer> czajkowski: I feared I would be volunteered for one ;-)
<czajkowski> jelmer: always next time :)
<jelmer> that's okay.. I think I'll have some actual project to talk about by then :-)
<czajkowski> it was  afun day and the only complaint I got was the lack of tea/coffee so all in all a fun day
<czajkowski> must write up a post about it
 * mungbean uses goodreads, but few of my friends do :(
<diplo> mungbean: Mines mainly for me when I go to a shop to see if i've read something or not
<diplo> :)
<diplo> But also like the suggestions
<mungbean> diplo: i use shelves app on my phone for that
<mungbean> scanned all my books in
<AlanBell> czajkowski: name tags might also be good
<czajkowski> AlanBell: aye good call
<diplo> Not seen the shelves app, will take a look..
<mungbean> then i exported to a desktop app
<mungbean> then imported into goodreads
<mungbean> automagical
<diplo> heh, I used to use an app on ubuntu called Alexandria, but there was no way to scan so I exported my results into Goodreads
<diplo> Last time I checked it didn't work anymore though
<mungbean> yeah it still works
<diplo> Oooh that shelves looks quite good, could use it with my films as well
<mungbean> was teh app that got me onto ubuntu
<mungbean> since building it on fedora core 3 was a nightmare
<mungbean> back in the day
<diplo> heh, right installing shelves to have a play
<mungbean> diplo: uses the barcode app to scan
<mungbean> you can export from shelves to google books too
<diplo> Hmm it's opensource now but still has ads ?
<diplo> May have to compile it myself and remove that ad and then add functionality to read from goodreads api
<mungbean> what app has ads?
<diplo> Shelves
<mungbean> i didn't notice
<mungbean> i only use it to collate the data anyway
<popey> davmor2: what was that bodge to force software centre to use a different release?
<popey> nvm found it!
<davmor2> popey: SOFTWARE_CENTER_DISTRO_CODENAME="quantal" software-center
<popey> ya âº
<davmor2> meh quit
<popey> found it in a pm from you
<popey> wanted to install nitro
<davmor2> popey: but I didn't think you liked task managers :)
<popey> well, i liked tomboy as my task manager until online services took that away
<aquarius> stgraber, ping about upstart user sessions
 * popey glares at aquarius 
<aquarius> what?
<aquarius> what did I do wrong now?
<popey> oh _nothing_
<popey> it's _fine_
 * popey looks up 8 lines then back at aquarius 
<aquarius> if you think I don't get enough of this sort of crap off my daughter, you are not using your imagination
<popey> hah
<aquarius> oh, tomboy. yeah.
<aquarius> export to a folder with a plugin, and sync the folder.
<popey> anyway, i moved to syncing gpg encrypted notes via u1
<aquarius> er, sync to a folder, I mean,
<popey> and managed to get myself a talk out of it ;)
<aquarius> someone on the tomboy list suggested that, and it seemed a good idea to me
<aquarius> I have not yet rationalised how I want to do this
<stgraber> aquarius: stuck in meetings for now, ping me again in a couple of hours ;)
<aquarius> I am waiting to see which notes app will work on both ubutnu desktop and ubuntu phone, and sync between them, and then I'll use it
<aquarius> stgraber, no problem -- it is not urgent at all ;)
<popey> nitro is quite nice
<aquarius> ya
<aquarius> it is not clear to me what the difference between nitro and the new one is
<aquarius> also: node-webkit on the phone. hm. perhaps, perhaps not.
<popey> "the new one"?
<aquarius> https://plus.google.com/u/0/117485690627814051450/posts/fXmEUzj7H9G
<aquarius> also, I think all the jono cooper webkit-based apps are using gtk webkit
<mh0> popey: nitro's awesome :D
<popey> ahh
<mh0> aquarius: node-webkit
<popey> yes, looks nice
<popey> yay, my ODBII things are on their way from amazon prime
<aquarius> mh0, yes, node, but something needs to actually render a webkit widget in a window. That's not node: that's gotta be gtk or qt or something.
<mh0> aquarius:  Well, yeah, that :P
<mungbean> popey: played with those on my focus
<mungbean> didn't give me as much as i'd hoped
<mungbean> used the torque app on android
<directhex> an aquarius on irc? inconceivable!
 * aquarius laughs
<Laney> a personal email from a company wot I ordered something from online thanking me for my order â¥
<czajkowski> nitro++
<czajkowski> tomboy was nicer and better but :(
<DJones> \o/ Just seen a tv advert showing Dr Who starting 30th March :)
<aquarius> does dauphinoise actually *require* cream in it? I haven't got any cream. :(
<aquarius> aha! you can use milk instead.
 * popey has a cookery class tomorrow
<aquarius> I put all the cream I had in yesterday's dinner :)
<popey> http://newlyns-farmshop.co.uk/cookery-school/
<popey> there
<aquarius> ooh, flash
<aquarius> I am self-teaching :)
<popey> it was a present
<popey> wifey has asked some of her female friends over next week and I'm cooking
<popey> couple of them have veggie husbands so asked me to do meat, because they don't get any at home
<popey> ahem
<SuperMatt> mmm... meat
<mungbean> slow cooked leg o'lamb
<SuperMatt> wait, veggie husbands, but not the wives?
<mungbean> mmmm
<SuperMatt> that's quite a curious way round
<mungbean> oh yeah, weird
<mungbean> must be some sort of club
<SuperMatt> a club I shall NEVER join
<mungbean> bacon wins
<SuperMatt> troo dat
<directhex> pfft, shoulda done carnitas.
<mh0> czajkowski: What was tomboy again?
<mh0> Some sort of note taking application, right?
<directhex> a note-taking app and personal wiki.
<directhex> web sync for notes was exceedingly useful
<mh0> Hm, well, I'll not reveal mine and Jono's secret then :P
<directhex> for sharing between multiple machines on multiple OSes
<mh0> directhex: i guess syncing was a nice part of tomboy
<mh0> did it ever have U1 syncing?
<directhex> yes
<directhex> u1 was the main implementation of tomboy's web sync api for years
<mh0> nice
<SuperMatt> now it's gone :(
 * mungbean cries
<mungbean> tomboy was the killer app for u1
<mungbean> for me
<mungbean> now u1 is just another dropbox
<mungbean> just as i approach my 5gb limit in u1
<directhex> i like u1ms too... although i wish it wasn't so painful to rename tracks
<directhex> but yes, i miss tomboy note sync
 * TheOpenSourcerer has a dead car :-(
<directhex> gnote never gained support for that. apparently writing all the libs to mangle oauth etc from c++ is hard
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, at least it's not a dead cat
<TheOpenSourcerer> I think he's still OK yes . Good point.
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: the v70?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yes popey
<popey> oh dear
<popey> wass up with it?
<TheOpenSourcerer> ran out of coolant. I didn't know about it until the thing cooked itself.
<popey> ouch
<popey> mine is also a touch unwell
<TheOpenSourcerer> Head gasket blown and probably cylinders/pistons cooked too
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: ouchy ouch
<popey> yikes
<TheOpenSourcerer> Car's value? ~Â£500
<TheOpenSourcerer> Repair bill? > Â£500
<SuperMatt> D:
<TheOpenSourcerer> At least I made my meeting :-D
<popey> buy another one and swap the engine? âº
<TheOpenSourcerer> Car died right outside
<SuperMatt> ooof
<TheOpenSourcerer> I can buy another one for not much more but we are not sure if that is what we want to do yet...
<TheOpenSourcerer> Been talking about car placement plan for ages now.
<popey> i need to consider what to do with mine
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not made the plan though ;-)
<popey> whether to repair or replace â¨
<popey> dashboard broke â¹
<popey> so i have no idea how fast I'm going or how much fuel I have (or if it's overheating)
<popey> ran out of fuel on the way to nans 97th birthday with the whole family on board on sunday
<TheOpenSourcerer> I like the idea of a personal lease of a new C/E class Merc estate for ~Â£350/m but we need to make sure we can afford it.
<popey> luckily had a 5L can in the boot
<SuperMatt> cripes
<popey> I'll probably get something like a mondeo size next
<SuperMatt> surely driving that is not legal
<popey> don't need an estate anymore
<redtape-renegade> that's the xxbatt.s then. they didn't ta2e that did they ??
<popey> SuperMatt: nope, not illegal
<TheOpenSourcerer> Wifey still wants a MASSIVE car
<SuperMatt> really?
<popey> SuperMatt: it passed MoT like it, just a few weeks ago
<SuperMatt> I'd have thought not knowing your speed would be terribly illegal
<popey> no
<TheOpenSourcerer> I don't but she doesn't want to drive it much either. Just for the occasional trip camping with the kids.
<popey> not exceeding the limit is the problem
<popey> surely you could fit everything in a saloon with an occasional top box?
<popey> you only have 2 sprogs don't you?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hah!
<TheOpenSourcerer> You haven't met my wife
<TheOpenSourcerer> She packs *everything*
<popey> well, funnily enough we had this convo after the volvo packed up
<TheOpenSourcerer> and some more.
<popey> yeah, wifey does same
<popey> and I pointed this out to her
<popey> she said "yeah, I fill the available space"
<popey> i.e. if we had a smaller one she would _have_ to compromise
<TheOpenSourcerer> I am going to C&P this conversation and show Mrs TheOpenSourcerer
<popey> heh
<popey> i dont want to spend loads on getting the volvo fixed
<popey> it's not that bad, will probably run for a few more years, it's a 51 diesel
<TheOpenSourcerer> BUt now I must away and make Twice Cooked Pork with stir-fried rice
<popey> still comfy, drives fine, cruises
<popey> hehe, nom
<TheOpenSourcerer> Mine was a '99 petrol 2.4 turbo.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Drank fuel like I drink beer :-)
<popey> haha
<directhex> i looked at the cost of a new car today.
<directhex> i am not getting a new car
 * aquarius leases a car. is a good idea
<popey> you have a prius don't you directhex ?
<directhex> popey, aye
<popey> do you get any idea of the battery lifetime?
<directhex> the HV battery? none has ever been replaced in the UK, apparently
<popey> blimey
<SuperMatt> thay's pretty swift
<popey> 8 year warranty.. didn't know that
<SuperMatt> nice
<directhex> i'd hope to buy a yank car next
<directhex> assuming affordability
<popey> you moving over there?
<directhex> nope
<directhex> i'd like a volt :)
<popey> ahhh
<redtape-renegade> I'd like a Zazzle, but computer says no.
<popey> I'd love a tesla
<popey> there's one parked at the train station
<directhex> range anxiety :'(
<redtape-renegade> popey, Yeah probly the same color as my X-mini I posted at 11:11:16.. murkey red.
<aquarius> right. Don't make dauphinoise with milk instead of cream. It comes out rather boring.
<directhex> ._.
<directhex> coulda told you that
<aquarius> I didn't *have* any cream, though :(
<aquarius> directhex, you have range anxiety about a tesla?
<aquarius> how far do you need to drive?? it's got a range over twice every other electric car on the market :)
<directhex> aquarius, well, the collabora commute is 85 miles each way, with no prospect of charging at the office
<jacobw> Shops?
<directhex> so i guess a guaranteed 170 mile bare minimum
<aquarius> directhex, afaict, the roadster will do 250 miles, and everyone seems to agree with that (or that it'll do at least 200). Apart from Top Gear, obviously ;)
<MartijnVdS> don't drive it like Clarkson
<aquarius> nothing else even comes *close* to 170 miles, otherwise I'd have an electric car :)
<directhex> aquarius, well, hence why i like the volt.
<aquarius> MartijnVdS, nah, the problem with Top Gear was that they lied about it, not that they drove it fast. It's a sports car. If you can't drive it like a lunatic on the track, what's the point of it? It's a sports car!
<directhex> aquarius, i am an extremely cautious person, and plan my life for "plan b". plan b if a tesla runs dry is "cry onto your expensive leather seats"
<directhex> volt plan b is "insert a bit of petrol"
<aquarius> directhex, nah. Plan B is "charge at any Nissan dealer or motorway service station somewhere between you and Cambridge" :)
<directhex> i don't want a 13 hour stop at a service station
<MartijnVdS> directhex: Vauxhall Ampera?
<aquarius> you don't need to completely charge it, though? 30 minutes -- "insert a bit of electricity", if you will.
<aquarius> a vauxhall ampera *is* a Volt, isn't it? :)
<directhex> MartijnVdS, rebadged volt!
<aquarius> lulz :)
<MartijnVdS> ah.. didn't know that :)
 * redtape-renegade Spills half his dinner down his front.
<MartijnVdS> <-- car n00b
<directhex> i would take an ampera happily. better base spec & nicer trim than volt
<MartijnVdS> all I know is I have a Smart "ForTwo" from '02 8-)
<directhex> but about Â£2k higher start price
<aquarius> my problem with the tesla roadster, apart from not being able to get in the thing, is that it is the price of a cheap house. :)
<aquarius> hence my Juke. :)
<directhex> used volt is about Â£24k. only a year old though. maybe in 3 years' time, i can reassess
<aquarius> I thought the new ones were about that (well, that they were about 30 but you got 5k off from the gummint)
<directhex> 35k minus 5k
<directhex> give or take
<aquarius> oh. the 30k is *after* the deduction. Darn.
<MartijnVdS> So why do the Tesla S and Roadster get twice the range of all the others?
<directhex> MartijnVdS, lots of batteries
<directhex> li-ion is expensive
<MartijnVdS> Just that? Wow.
<directhex> lowest spec Ampera is Â£34,995.00, before gubmint grant
<directhex> chevy site is down right now :)
<directhex> think it's about 33k
<MartijnVdS> wow.. it starts at around 46kâ¬ here
<aquarius> MartijnVdS, a Tesla Roadster takes batteries roughly like laptop batteries. And it has six THOUSAND of them.
<aquarius> this is one of the reasons it's ninety grand :)
<directhex> huh.
<directhex> Meet the 2012 Car of the year: Volt. The electric car with extended range.
<directhex> from Â£35,255.00
<MartijnVdS> I'll stick to my Smart for now.
<aquarius> I liked the look of the renault
<aquarius> now hear this, electric car manufacturers. If you avoid writing an actual range in miles anywhere on your website, and instead say things like "I bet you won't actually exceed the range", it does not make me trust you.
<directhex> heh
<directhex> agreed!
<MartijnVdS> "OK, I'll drive to the north tip of Scotland to prove you wrong"
<directhex> basically i want more choice in the "range extended electric" field
<aquarius> aha, finally. 115 miles range on a Fluence. Which is rubbish.
<directhex> right now it's the amperavolt, or the prius plug-in
<MartijnVdS> I want more charging locations
<directhex> where the prius plug-in is pretty lame compared to the voltpera
<aquarius> more charging locations is a chicken/egg thing.
<MartijnVdS> Nearest charging location to my house is a 10 minute drive..
<aquarius> I'll say this: the Ampera looks sweet.
<MartijnVdS> and I can't get one at my house (flat/shared parking space)
<aquarius> MartijnVdS, charge it in your garage. If you don't have a garage, then you are not currently part of the target demographic ;)
<directhex> i.e. it's Â£33,245 and it's far far worse than Â£2k's worth of distance from an ampera
<aquarius> but I don't want a hybrid. :)
<redtape-renegade> aquarius, It's chicken/egg thing at the /Sunnyfarm/
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: you could just not put petrol in the tank
<directhex> prius plug-in is basically a prius with li-ion, i.e. it's a petrol car with an electric boost
<aquarius> MartijnVdS, and have a range of about 40 miles. :)
<directhex> ampera is a pure electric car with a petrol generator slapped on it
<directhex> i want electric drive. VROOOOM
<MartijnVdS> I want self-driving electric vehicles
<aquarius> me too, directhex
<aquarius> it *baffles* me that no-one wants to make a car with a 200 mile eange.
<aquarius> I mean, it is possible. Tesla have done it. Why won't Vauxhall make one?
<directhex> aquarius, they do. but Â£Â£Â£
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: Â£â¬$ even
<aquarius> afaict they do not
<aquarius> they *could* do, but no-one does.
<MartijnVdS> so... we need cheaper, better battery tech
<aquarius> if you want more than about 130 miles out of a car you *have* to buy a Tesla.
<aquarius> you can't buy, say, a Fluence with double the amount of battery in :)
<directhex> prius plug-in range is about 12 miles :p
 * aquarius laughs hysterically. 12 miles? honestly?
<directhex> yeah
<czajkowski> aquarius: you may have said before, but what do you currently drive?
<aquarius> that's like solid, condensed, 24-carat gold fail :)
<directhex> up from 1 mile on the standard prius
<aquarius> czajkowski, Nissan Juke.
<directhex> this is pure electric, of course
<directhex> that's the thing. prius is a petrol-first car. even the prius plug-in is petrol first
<czajkowski> aquarius: do you do much driving or is this a if the perfect car existed you'd buy it
<directhex> ampera's 40 miles is enough for typical drive, without any charge time waiting if you run out. just insert dinosaurs & set them on fire, to add charge
<aquarius> czajkowski, I bought (well, began a two year lease on) my Juke last September. If there were an electric car that was suitable, I would absolutly, definitely have got one.
<aquarius> But a high proportion of my driving is in 120mile+ bursts.
<directhex> if i could afford an ampera i would buy one in a heartbeat
<directhex> TO THE LOTTERYMOBILE!
<aquarius> and nothing has changed since 2010 when I wrote http://kryogenix.org/days/2010/11/23/why-i-can-t-have-an-electric-car :)
<aquarius> heh. First comment on that post: directhex recommending the ampera ;)
<czajkowski> heh
<directhex> aquarius, i love the idea!
<czajkowski> jons car seems to do well on diesel
<directhex> and i love that for a change it's not the japanese pioneering something new
<aquarius> mine's diesel.
<aquarius> I was well disappointed that it gets about the same mpg as my Merc did on petrol, mind :)
<redtape-renegade> Unkles miniVan does well on diesel.
<directhex> the volt/ampera, and fisker karma, are the only extended-range electrics which are *capable* of pure electric locomotion
<directhex> most li-ion hybrids still burn a little petrol
<aquarius> directhex, I thought the prius was pure electric if it was on the battery?
<popey> 18:24:44 < aquarius> MartijnVdS, a Tesla Roadster takes batteries roughly like laptop batteries. And it has six THOUSAND of them.
<popey> i read that in aquarius's voice
<aquarius> directhex, it is silent. How does it manage that if there's an internal combustion engine running? Might be missing something here.
<directhex> aquarius, well, with the old ni-cd prius, you can't pure electric it at over 30mph, or if you accelerate basically at all
<aquarius> oh. that sucks.
<directhex> or if the engine is cold
<aquarius> hahaha Fisker Karma.
<aquarius> that car is double sweet
<aquarius> but it's about quarter of a million notes :)
<aquarius> and it's a hybrid. :)
<aquarius> mildy surprised that Ssangyong aren't into this in a big way
<directhex> the prius drive train is built around the petrol engine. the electric motor cannot spin the wheels, it can only spin the petrol engine's cranky bits around
<aquarius> ha! I am thick. I thought Ssangyong were Chinese.
<popey> the 3rd gen tesla is supposed to be the cheapo mass-market one
<popey> after the S
 * AlanBell likes the S
<directhex> popey, yeah... except it's a petrol car, mostly
<popey> ditto
<popey> eh?
<directhex> sorry, saw 3rd gen, filled in prius
<directhex> time for sleep
<directhex> or cake
<aquarius> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bollor%C3%A9_Bluecar ?? Never heard of this
<directhex> sleepcake?
<redtape-renegade> X)
<aquarius> blimey! it is styled by Pininfarina.
<popey> fugly on a stick
<popey> Pinanfarina has gona blind
<aquarius> not very well, though, looking at the pictures. Sergio, I am disappoint.
<aquarius> not that it's Sergio any more :)
<AlanBell> ah, no the model X is the one I like
<directhex> of course, all the ampera love might be disproved by a test drive
<popey> golly, the place wifey bought her vauxhall has a leccy charger
<directhex> (e.g. honda civic hybrid and honda insight are terrible cars)
<aquarius> oof, and they want 500eur pm for it, which is a bit rich for a car that looks like a liquorice allsort.
<popey> hah
<aquarius> "As of November 2012, GM has not disclosed details about the range" (of the Spark). Perhaps this means that it will be 400 miles!
 * aquarius thinks not
<popey> â¹  so no leccy car for me
 * AlanBell pops out for bioethanol
<directhex> wow, there are only 526 voltperas in the UK
<directhex> 67 volts, the rest amperas
<TheOpenSourcerer> Someone needs to sort out fuelcells so they work and are cost effective. Batteries suck big time.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Or make the batteries from Graphene.
<AlanBell> just chuck a few carrots in the Mr Fusion
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<aquarius> TheOpenSourcerer, not sure I see the point in having fuel cells working in a car.
<TheOpenSourcerer> You can refill them in a few minutes.
<directhex> precisely
<TheOpenSourcerer> They have a much better range
<directhex> honda have some concept ones in california
<aquarius> I can refill my car in a few minutes. :)
<directhex> and three charging stations!
<aquarius> ah, we're talking about hydrogen fuel cells? not methanol?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yes, but you can't charge a leccy car in that time.
<AlanBell> the fuel for fuel cells is made from electricity
<directhex> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_FCX_Clarity
<aquarius> like the Clarity?
<directhex> precisely like the clarity
<aquarius> right. Then the problem is not the car, it's how you put a hydrogen delivery platform everywhere. You have to convince every petrol station on the globe to also sell hydrogen.
<aquarius> I can't see how that's going to happen.
<aquarius> without massive government intervention
<directhex> aquarius, somehow LPG got traction
<aquarius> hahaha no it didn't.
<aquarius> where's your nearest LPG station?
<directhex> aquarius, but yes, you're right - but you're really just selling EREV like the ampera here! :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> Now delivery and storage of Hydrogen is not so much of an issue as it was around the time of the Zeppelins
<AlanBell> fuel cells/batteries need to be pluggable
<directhex> aquarius, the estate behind my house has a place selling LPG :)
 * redtape-renegade checks ritetag.com for #hydrogenfuelcells
<aquarius> directhex, really? blimey. The nearest one to me is four or five miles away, and I'm in the country!
<aquarius> well, sortof. ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Iceland could produce most of the world's Hydrogen for very low costs.
<AlanBell> go to fuel station, remove battery/fuel module, shove in fresh one
<popey> http://www.lpgmap.co.uk/map.php?lat=51.2948891&lng=-0.7408557&error=0&search=7
<popey> loads near me aquarius
<aquarius> TheOpenSourcerer, srsly, I am not worried about the Hindenberg, or about storage, I'm worried about how you build as many hydrogen delivery stations as there are petrol stations.
<aquarius> popey, you *are* in the country, though ;)
<popey> wat
<directhex> aquarius, http://www.countrywidefarmers.co.uk/pws/Content.ice?page=EnergyAutoGasRefuellingOutlets&pgForward=businesscontentfull
<popey> http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/bp-quits-solar-goes-back-to-petroleum
<popey> fancy that
<aquarius> the reason I like electric cars is that the fuel delivery infrastructure already exists, and it's in your house. You can privately and unilaterally opt in; you don't have to wait for Shell to *decide* that they want to support your quixotic car adventure.
<directhex> so neener neener boo boo :D
<popey> Lets Kickstarter an Open Source electric car!
<popey> (or lets go down the pub and laugh at that idea)
 * aquarius grins
<aquarius> people suggested that in comments when I complained about electric cars.
<aquarius> "build your own!"
<ali1234> lol
<aquarius> I'm like, hahahaa, no.
<directhex> top gear did that
<aquarius> they did :)
<directhex> http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/top-gear-hammerhead-eagle-i-thrust-car-official-press-release
<ali1234> get a scrapper for Â£50
<redtape-renegade> thought so, there's nothing in G+comm/twitter for #hydrogenfuelcells
<ali1234> fill it with enough Li batteries to burn down a small city
<popey> haha, plastic chair
<ali1234> "sounds like a good idea"
<aquarius> ali1234, it's doable, it's just not clear how you do it *economically*. The Tesla cars are basically perfect electric cars, it's just that they're four times the price of a normal equivalent petrol car :)
<ali1234> yes
<directhex> "This time, it was armed with more batteries, and a diesel generator to recharge said batteries."
<directhex> they didn't build an electric, they built an ampera :D
<popey> although watching Elon Musk do his press release for their latest car was uncomfortable
<ali1234> it was fine
<aquarius> directhex, they made that point :) They were dead pleased to have built a hybrid ;)
<popey> yes, "fine"
<directhex> i'd love a tesla as a toy. i wouldn't want one as my main vehicle
<directhex> i wouldn't want to visit family in the south of france in a tesla
<directhex> even the S
<ali1234> guy has so much money it doesn't even matter
<popey> dont have a second child, fill the spare seat with batteries
 * popey has steak for dinner
<directhex> sounds explodey
<popey> and red cabbage
<redtape-renegade> Scotch yellow egg for mine ..
<directhex> 'In an effort to avoid "pulling a Telsa", BMW is reportedly planning to offer petrol-powered loaners to i3 buyers who need to -- you know -- actually drive somewhere other than work.'
<directhex> ._.
<aquarius> the i3's a plugin hybrid, isn't it?
<directhex> 'According to WardsAuto, however, BMW is piecing together a program that would allow i3 buyers to grab a gasoline-powered Bimmer when long hauls are necessary, and the loaner program will be bundled into the cost of the car.'
<aquarius> got an electric range of about 40 miles :)
<directhex> i3 is pure electric
<directhex> or there'd be no need for the loan programme
<popey> electric range of "your house to the nearest dealership to pick up a petrol car"
<directhex> 90 mile range
<aquarius> aah, the i8 is the hybrid
<popey> http://idevelop.github.com/ascii-camera/
<popey> silly
<ali1234> er... how do i allow it to access my camera?
<popey> in chromium it just asks
<ali1234> i guess firefox can't do it then
<directhex> doesn't show much
<directhex> of course, my laptop is closed
<directhex> :D
<Azelphur> I decided I'd brave the waters of the silkroad market purely to see what all the hype is about, funny enough, not all drugs
<Azelphur> there's normal stuff on there too, computer hardware, games, etc
<aquarius> popey, hey, will ubuntu tablet work on the original asus transformer?
<popey> no
<aquarius> I won't bother trying to steal it back from Niamh then ;)
<popey> we did use it on that initially
<popey> but that was $time ago
<ali1234> that reminds me i need to figure out how to install it on ideapad
<ali1234> i think i'll wait for raring update
<popey> thats going to be soon
<ali1234> hmm this is weird
<ali1234> in KDE, you can drag Gtk windows (ie move them) from the menubar
<ali1234> (from a blank area)
<ali1234> but not KDE apps
<ali1234> and i never saw this happen in gnome
<stgraber> aquarius: hey, so you had a question?
<aquarius> stgraber, I do! Two questions, actually. First: how can I tell if upstart is now running my user session?
<aquarius> stgraber, if it isn't, then I won't ask the second question yet :)
<stgraber> aquarius: chances are it's not as it's off by default
<aquarius> oh. heh :)
<aquarius> stgraber, ok, I shall ask my second question and that'll help decide whether I want to turn it on :)
<stgraber> aquarius: you can tell by checking whether your current session is listed in /etc/upstart-xsessions but by default only ubuntu is listed there and only as a comment
<aquarius> stgraber, what I would like to do is: when I am connected to a particular wireless network, stop the screen from locking due to inactivity.
<aquarius> stgraber, I could, of coruse, write a daemon which listens to NetworkManager's D-Bus signals and, when on the correct network, inhibits the screensaver.
<aquarius> but I do not like daemons.
<stgraber> I don't think we have any bridge with network-manager at this point, so you'd probably need to implement an extra bridge to get the DBus signal (we really need a generic dbus signal bridge)
<aquarius> What I *want* is, when I switch to a new wireless network (or boot the machine, etc), for *something* to be monitoring that, and for that something to start up my app, which can then decide what to do and then shut down
<aquarius> that is: I want to separate the "be a daemon" and "do work" bits of the app, and have upstart handle the "be a daemon" bit ;)
<aquarius> is that something that is in theory doable, even if it's not doable right now?
<stgraber> yes, it's definitely the kind of thing we want to eventually get into upstart, it's not easily doable just yet though
<stgraber> or actually it may be pretty easy with a couple of hacks
<aquarius> I think up an awful lot of ideas which go something like: when $dbus-signal from $app happens, do $action. The only way to do that right now, as far as I can tell, is to be a daemon which runs all the time in order to get the signal. I would very much like it if upstart could take over that be-a-daemon part of the world :)
<stgraber> you can dump a shell script into /etc/NetworkManager/dispatcher.d which will then emit system wide events for any kind of network change. Then you can write user jobs that do "start on :sys:your-new-event CONDITION=something"
<stgraber> ^ the above is a NM-specific solution for what you want. I agree we'll want a more generic way of hooking upstart to dbus signals
<aquarius> aha, that sounds like a useful interim hack :)
<aquarius> so, to make sure I understand properly: if I did that, right now, I also have to enable something to make upstart run in my user session?
<aquarius> if I put upstart jobs in ~/.init right now, they'll be ignored?
<stgraber> yeah, but you should wait until the new dbus, gnome-session and gnome-settings-daemon hit the archive (I uploaded them 30min ago), otherwise you won't be able to get a working user session anyway
 * aquarius laughs
<aquarius> I shall wait a while before trying this, then, since stuff is all in flux :)
<aquarius> but this sounds promising
<aquarius> thanks, stgraber!
<stgraber> right. Wait for dbus, gnome-session and gnome-settings-daemon to land in the archive, then uncomment ubuntu in /etc/upstart-xsessions and then it should be working
<stgraber> I'm running the packages I just uploaded and they're definitely working here ;)
<aquarius> being able to do "start on dbus:some-dbus-thing:some-signal name" would be totally utterly brilliant :0
<Laney> grarg
<Laney> Just kicked a full mug of tea over and sent it spiralling across half the sitting room
<popey> erk
<zleap> ops
<zleap> oops
<Laney> 1001 will sort it out, I'm sure ...
 * Laney goes out for a bike ride while it dries
<directhex> i'm going home, i think
<directhex> home seems awesome to me
<directhex> full of things like "bed"
<directhex> and "xbox"
<Laney> not baby and wife?
<directhex> oh, those guys
<directhex> sure, i guess
<stgraber> aquarius: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5608742/
 * TheOpenSourcerer heads off to the lounge to watch Horizon then Masterchef with a nice glass of scotch...
<stgraber> aquarius: put that into /etc/NetworkManager/dispatcher.d/02upstart, make it executable and you'll get nice upstart events whenever something changes in NM
<directhex> i'm out of rum :(
<directhex> also, 2 hour drive home :(
<aquarius> stgraber, nice!
<Laney> good god does haskell-lens's testsuite take forever to run
<Laney> it doesn't even output anything while it's doing so
<stgraber> aquarius: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5608746/ that's what I get on wired here
<stgraber> aquarius: so I should now be able to do "start on :sys:nm-connection-up INTERFACE=eth1 DHCP4_ROUTERS=172.17.0.1" and have it only trigger when on my network ;)
<aquarius> very cool indeed!
<stgraber> aquarius: output for a VPN when still connected on wired: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5608751/
<AlanBell> bioethanol fail :(
 * aquarius tries to work out how to inhibit the screensaver without being a long-running process. :(
<aquarius> I assumed this bit would be easy :(
<aquarius> ...and it seems not doable at all. :(
<ali1234> redtape-renegade: just found this http://askubuntu.com/questions/51394/my-webcam-is-not-working-with-google-hangout-can-i-make-it-work
<ali1234> if your camera uses gspca, this is why it doesn't work, and a workaround
<aquarius> gaah. Looking at cuttlefish, which might do this for me (in the absence of upstart greatness) and... it's only in USC for 12.04 :(
<aquarius> and running the download has no actions defined.
<aquarius> the universe doesn't want me to do this, does it?
 * aquarius just turns off screen lock, with a sense of annoyance and trepidation.
<Laney> that's the typical problem I've been finding too - not how to find the right upstart events, but /what/ to run
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
#ubuntu-uk 2013-03-13
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning all
<kvarley> Is there a way to encrypt a external hard drive and have it automatically unlock the drive based off which user logs in?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone recommend a decent pub/bar in central London good for a impromptu meetup of about 8 peeps?
<jacobw> Good morning
<jacobw> TheOpenSourcerer: The Euston Taps
<TheOpenSourcerer> jacobw: Sounds like it might be a bit small.
<BigRedS_> how central?
<BigRedS_> some people consider the city to be central, for others its the west end
<TheOpenSourcerer> BigRedS_: Good point - Zone1 would be OK
<BigRedS_> so "which central" would probably be a better question :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol - I guess the city might be better as it gets quieter as the evening goes... We are there to talk mainly
<BigRedS_> of course, now that I've asked that I can't remember which pub it is that I'm picturing. There's definitely at least one reasonably good one for meetings...
 * BigRedS_ wanders off to ponder
<diplo> Morning all
 * TheOpenSourcerer heads off for a skype call with a lady in Nigeria
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, don't give her Â£10,000!
<directhex> she is not a princess!
<TheOpenSourcerer> aww shucks.
<diplo> :P
<TheOpenSourcerer> What a lovely lady Nigeria. Want's to give me some money :-)
 * redtape-renegade tries to listen to Spotify with his Dragon pinkjack-headphone's'. Chillax  
 * TheOpenSourcerer wonders if BigRedS has had a brain fart yet?
<redtape-renegade> http://open.spotify.com/track/51cEre5bGWwbN5wiR1Bq3X redtape-renegade wonders if he can +bitmark this with a SuperLens ?
<dwatkins> Can we arbitrarily combine words now, like 'chill' and 'relax'?
<redtape-renegade> MartijnVd does.
<JamesTait> Happy St Gerald's Feast Day, all! :-D
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<redtape-renegade> dwatkins, bitly never gets any easier :: http://spoti.fi/XsanyD
<dwatkins> redtape-renegade: "sorry, we're not available where you are, enter your email to stay tuned for good news"
<redtape-renegade> dwatkins, Well it was supposed to Link to this  [ http://open.spotify.com/user/martijnvds/playlist/2UHNlhHRMcziirEn188343 ] but the bit.ly builders must have gone bust.
<dwatkins> redtape-renegade: no, it's that Spotify doesn't work from Ireland.
 * mungbean may have another baby in the next couple of days \o/
<shauno> dwatkins: I think that's changed
<dwatkins> I had the spotify trial for a couple days last week, I assume it's about Â£5 or Â£10 a month, though.
<redtape-renegade> dwatkins, troo, it's more MP4 than D4 or that restaurant on Main Street, Kinsale.
<dwatkins> I'm not in Ireland, but my internet routes through there - I could probably do some fun things with ssh, though.
 * redtape-renegade thinks it's python based..
<shauno> free trial? I thought they only did that on mobile/tablet
<redtape-renegade> yep .. here's your pass code.. hang-on.
<redtape-renegade> shauno, mmmpft. I reposted the Codes4Followers for GB/UK on www.tumblr.com/dashboard .. but must had got lost.
 * redtape-renegade      .......             puts his mic teeth back in.
<mungbean> this channel seems a lot quieter of late
 * Laney bangs some pots
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> mungbean: yeah popey has had the day
<davmor2> off
<mungbean> of late, i mean few weeks
<mungbean> is popey the lubricant for this channel then..?
<mungbean> maybe catalyst is a better choice of word
<BigRedS> hahahaha
<dwatkins> popeywax
<redtape-renegade> redtape-renegade, waps shauno with his hanbag
<redtape-renegade> closely followed by an octupus under 'See more from this seller'
<redtape-renegade> http:http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dolce-Gabbana-Mde-In-Italy-Handbag-Original-New-/320795875601?emailtemplateid=56128391&sellerid=OF5sKOndb35F6nlJ7x25uw==&ssPageName=ADME:B:SEMK:US:SHOWI&buyerid=AwpUkiU0zVfFJmLOwK/3wA==&category=63852&refid=store
<redtape-renegade> woops.. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dolce-Gabbana-Mde-In-Italy-Handbag-Original-New-/320795875601?emailtemplateid=56128391&sellerid=OF5sKOndb35F6nlJ7x25uw==&ssPageName=ADME:B:SEMK:US:SHOWI&buyerid=AwpUkiU0zVfFJmLOwK/3wA==&category=63852&refid=store
<davmor2> mungbean: I know this will come as a shock but a lot of us have been stupidly busy. For some it is the ramp up to the end of the financial year, for others it is the last month to get their holidays in place before they lose them etc etc etc
<mungbean> ah, thats unusual, i think eveyr place i've worked does the dec-dec holiday thing
<dwatkins> financial year
<dwatkins> depends on the company as to which 'year end' is used
<mungbean> i'm about to have 3 weeks "off" = paternity+AL
<directhex> i'm saving holiday days as "baby is sick" days
<davmor2> mungbean: things like that too
<mungbean> in my company, baby sick day is allowed as care for a dependent
<mungbean> or maybe = WAH
<directhex> work at home, with a sick baby? ._.
<mungbean> semes to be some scam among contractors at my workplace that is allowed to WAH and be paid when blatantly they are doing a sicky
<dwatkins> heh, we have the opposite - people who are ill, but work as much as they can, which may not speed their recovery
<mungbean> culture in my work place needs a reboot
<mungbean> productivity is <50% of previous roles, made worse by oopen plan offices and bureaucracy
<dwatkins> we have an open plan office, it's mostly ok so long as people aren't too loud
<dwatkins> some people are very loud, even when standing next to me talking, which is bizarre
<shauno> that's an irk here .. we're an open cubefarm, and I'm the loud one
<DJones> Don't know if this of any interest to anybody here 2 IT jobs with a charity http://www.compassionuk.org/employment
<directhex> DJones, do they pay big bucks?
<DJones> directhex: No idea, just it mentioned
<mungbean> directhex: charity, then no
<directhex> never mind then
<directhex> i still need to afford the previously mentioned ponycar
<redtape-renegade> !ask
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<dwatkins> is there some reason not to work for a charity?
<mungbean> depends on size of charity i guess
<dwatkins> my brother worked for Mercy Ships, the logistics of supplying a modded cruise ship so it could go spend 10 months mooring off African countries to provide free operations are immense
<dwatkins> an entire container full of wheelchairs
<dwatkins> several jeeps
<dwatkins> tonnes of weetabix, washing powder (provided for free because the boxes were wrongly printed etc.)
 * redtape-renegade checks the safe for charity- petty cash vouchers.
<mungbean> a lot of smaller charities are not well funded and tend to underpay for the skills they are asking
<dwatkins> yeah, I can imagine
<mungbean> much like public sector
<dwatkins> much like outsourcing support
<mungbean> although working for a good cause can outweigh the financial downsides
<mungbean> you can earn spiritual dollars instead
<dwatkins> yeah, I'd rather work for a company that does good than a gigantic coproration that makes bad products or something
<dwatkins> trouble is, if you don't offer a high salary, you can end up not getting the most capable people
<mungbean> very true
<mungbean> i suffer with this in my workplace
<dwatkins> as do I, hence my comment on outsourcing
<mungbean> now the JDs have descended into "must know prince2 and itil" and no actual skills, hence they will suffer recruiting anyone
<dwatkins> it's still within the company, but we have departments in countries which are cheaper. I don't think it's specifically the location that's to blame, just the fact it's 'somewhere else' and we're not offering much money
<NET||abuse> I love disk space maths:   Size: 227G  Used: 208G  Avail:8.2G  Use%:97%
<NET||abuse> 227G = 216.2G
<mungbean> yep
<mungbean> OS overheads
<mungbean> filesystem overheads sorry
<directhex> ext filesystems reserve some percentage as root-only, for disaster recovery
<NET||abuse> indeed... it's really alot thoug itsn't it
<shauno> it is now that drives are getting huge.  it's a tunable amount though
<shauno> the default is 5%, but you can change it with tune2fs (to either a percentage or a fixed number of blocks)
<shauno> I really wish dell would let you buy a machine with no harddrive.  but I guess that'd give away their fictional prices
<Myrtti> Celestron 31150 LCM 114 Short Computerised Reflector Telescope will be on Amazon's today's deals today at 1700
<Myrtti> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0036GNNCC/
<Azelphur> just spent the past 3 hours tidying up because I was expecting health and safety inspector today, I read the letter wrong, the appointments next month.
 * Azelphur facepalms
<directhex> now you have a tidy house!
<Azelphur> it's true
<czajkowski> and if you have to spend 3 hours tiding
<czajkowski> well , you shouldn't :)
<bigcalm> Ug peeps
<redtape-renegade> MartijnVdS, I've PM'd Whoop also.
<Whoop> redtape-renegade: you did?  Your PM got lost
<redtape-renegade> Whoop, Well try Pming me, and I will try then.
<Whoop> ,,,
<Whoop> I think you got the wrong nick
<Whoop> you didn't mean to PM me, at least I hope you didnt
<redtape-renegade> Whoop, I just got a wut's up .. nothing important/ to do with you, soz.
<Twinkletoes> The default postfix install has 'virtual_alias_domains = $virtual_alias_maps', but if I specify a single domain name in this file, postfix says it's not in the right format.  Does anyone know how I specify both in the same file?
<diplo> Anyone tried this https://github.com/tooxie/shiva-server ?
<BigRedS> I think I know someone who uses that
<BigRedS> well, I know someone who I think uses it
<sebsebseb> hi
<jacobw> Hi sebsebseb
<sebsebseb> hi jacobw
<mgdm> popey: have a good day?
<jacobw> mgdm: he's been refreshed today
<jacobw> mgdm: he's now agentinian
<mgdm> heh
<popey> mgdm: yes âº
<mgdm> popey: was wondering how the cook school was, since my gf has expressed an interest in that sort of thing
<popey> will talk later, podcasting...
<mgdm> Ah! Didn't realise
<popey> np
<cocoa117> anyone using duplicity for their backup. why is it important for one using two different passphrases for online backup? one for symmemtric encryption and other for digital signature
<cocoa117> if one switched my contents, i would notice when i decrypt it right? because they changed the password
<Twinkletoes> Can anyone confirm if (I haevb the wireless-tools package installed), I should be using the wireless- commands in the interfaces file?
<MartijnVdS> Twinkletoes: you don't want wireless-tools anymore (iwconfig, iwlist etc.)
<MartijnVdS> you want to use "iw" which is in the "iw" package
<MartijnVdS> oh.. it doesn't integrate well with /etc/network/interfaces
<MartijnVdS> but wpa_supplicante does
<MartijnVdS> but wpa_supplicant does
<MartijnVdS> why would you want to set stuff manually anyway? :)
 * xnox is actually considering to implement StackSort http://m.xkcd.com/1185/ click alt-text
<dsample> aquarius, does the twitterfall script from LRL still exist?
<shauno> gosh, 80x24 doesn't feel nostalgic at all.  it's pants
<^aDaM-ipad2> Evening people :)
<^aDaM-ipad2> popey, brobostigon had no luck with my install :( will be burning the .ISO I downloaded to disc when I buy some lol.
<^aDaM-ipad2> You guys will know about Roxy Music, I have a rare tour jacket for sale and was wondering where would be the best place to sell it I know its worth a good few grand. Here is the item number for it I have stuck it on eBay.. Item Number: 140932637336
<AlanBell> http://webdesign.maratz.com/lab/responsivetypography/realtime/ interesting stuff
<AlanBell> would be possibly interesting for the Ubuntu touch platform if that is going to support zoom at all
<ali1234> doesn't work on firefox?
<AlanBell> works in chromium
<AlanBell> yeah, doesn't work in firefox for me either
<ali1234> haha when you go to download chrome from google the picture has buttons-on-left
<ali1234> they better not have hard coded that
<shauno> hopefully firefox will be irrelevant soon enough
<ali1234> lol... i don't understand what the point of this is
<ali1234> "i can't read this... i'll just move closer too the screen.... damn it got smaller"
<shauno> I'm all in favour of webkit "winning". it seems the sensible way to go.
<shauno> for a signifant chunk of time, windows used an adaptation of BSD's TCP/IP stack.  which I consider the whole point of bsd licenses.  An implementation that's not just compatible in theory, but reality
<shauno> I really want to see webkit do the same for www
#ubuntu-uk 2013-03-14
<ali1234> yeah i like webkit
<ali1234> chrome/chromium sucks though
<shauno> I'm curious to see what Opera do with it.  currently, I use chrome at work because safari's w32 implementation tries to drag too much of their rendering engine with it, which makes text look like a black sheep
<shauno> but one engine winning doesn't seem any worse to me, than libjpeg or libpng being canonical.  the victory is in the dominant engine being free-for-all, rather than victory being no victor
<ali1234> oh yeah i really hate apps that do that
<ali1234> anything apple, anything nokia
<ali1234> chrome to an extent, though not as badly
<ali1234> oh and anything microsoft that deliberately brings over the "new" look of the next version of windows that i don't want
<shauno> apple's windows ports are too faithful to the original.  I can see the logic, but it just feels out of place. and that really detracts from actually being able to read things
<ali1234> but with chrome i miss rss bookmark folders and proper ad blocking
<ali1234> and any other browser for that matter
<shauno> lucily my ad-blocker functions as a http proxy, so it's as agnostic as possible
<shauno> but this is why I still have firefox on every platform.  sometimes you actually need the kitchen sink
<shauno> however, it's never my "daily driver"
<shauno> it's suffered from a pretty basic problem.  the idea was sound enough.  mozilla was a monster, so they started from scratch
<shauno> but it was driven by the same people with the same goals.  and we're meant to pretent it didn't turn into the same beast
<ali1234> yeah i tend to agree
<ali1234> but... i still prefer it for day to day use
<ali1234> i don't actually want webpage to watch me most of the time
<shauno> just to veer wildly on-topic, this is my current concern with Ubuntu.  It's going the same direction.
<shauno> not being a desktop-linux user, I've basically treated Ubuntu like Debian with a sensible release schedule
<shauno> a move to LTS+rolling is pretty much where I came from. stable+sid. a blessed release for production, and Sid for the desktop
<shauno> I see the logic, but I'm not very cloudy.  This move really narrows the gap between debian-stable and ubuntu-lts
<ali1234> not really
<ali1234> ubuntu still has an advantage of actually caring about proprietary stuff
<ali1234> for now anyway
<shauno> my lack of desktop usage pretty much makes that irrelevant
<ali1234> will be interesting to see how that goes with mir
<shauno> for me, of course.  As they love to point out, I'm not their target market
<ali1234> thn you've got stuff like indicators
<ali1234> if you know how to get those working on debian stable i'm interested
<ali1234> i'm really interested in juju and openstack too
<shauno> I use OSX for the desktop.  my linux usage now is mainly down to VMs that we give to field techs to run on-site for 30 minutes, mail us the logs, destroy them and move on
<ali1234> yeah i'll never use apple for desktop
<ali1234> i'd rather use windows 8
<shauno> I'm fairly open-minded. I don't look at masochists like they're crazy :)
<aquarius> dsample, it does
<aquarius> ah, you're offline
<Myrtti> ill pass the message to him
<Myrtti> aquarius, url? I mentioned it to a colleague and he wanted to try and do something similar for a meetup
<aquarius> http://lugradio.org/live/2009/fstwittertag/fstwittertag.html?q=lrl2009&style=http://www.lugradio.org/live/2009/twitter.css
<aquarius> Myrtti, ^
<shauno> what I call desktop is almost entirely laptop.  I moved to OSX somewhere around Warty, when the laptop I had at the time had Suspend supported, but not Resume.  And it was a thinkpad, which are traditionally at the upper end of hardware support
<ali1234> i don't use a laptop any more
<ali1234> i just take a tablet
<shauno> I can't use tablets for anything serious
<ali1234> well, i can't use a laptop for anything serious either, so nothing lost :)
<Myrtti> aquarius, cheers
<ali1234> mainly because i need a mouse, not a touch pad, touch screen, or any of those other silly things
<Myrtti> he hijacked my Nexus7
<shauno> far too much of my usage ends up looking like https://dl.dropbox.com/u/23042/IMG_1486.jpg
<ali1234> ah i can understand that i guess
<ali1234> i don't ever deal with physical hardware
<aquarius> um, I have a mouse with a laptop. I'm sitting here using it right now :)
<shauno> UPSes are my day-job, we're nothing without phyisical
<ali1234> yeah but i just hate carrying around a laptop and a mouse and a load of cables and then spending 10 minutes setting it all up
<aquarius> ali1234, fine, but it's hard to see how carrying around a desktop computer and a mouse and a load of cables is easier ;)
<ali1234> it isn't, but a tablet is
<aquarius> um, "i need a mouse, not a touch pad, touch screen, or any of those other silly things"
<ali1234> yeah
<aquarius> or is your argument that you're fine to carry around a talet and a mouse, but not a laptop and a mouse
<aquarius> ?
<ali1234> so i end up just not doing stuff on the laptop
<aquarius> *tablet, obviously
<shauno> I'm used to carrying around a bag of extra kit, because no-one sells a laptop with 2-4 nics
<ali1234> no, the argument is it's easier to carry a tablet than a laptop, and they are both easier than a laptop and mouse
<aquarius> ali1234, sure, I agree with that, but I'm not the one who needs a mouse. ;)
<ali1234> and tablet is equivalent in functionality to laptop without mouse
<shauno> the dongle in that pic is an external nic, because I wanted to sit on the wire invisibly.  which I have no idea how to do on windows, and a desktop on a trolley is just a pain in the !ohmy
<aquarius> not *sure* I agree, but I am aware that other people differ from me on this. I find an actual keyboard considerably easier to type on than a glass keyboard.
<ali1234> yeah i don't really see much difference between tablet and a typical rubbish laptop keyboard
<ali1234> i think i actually prefer tablet
<ali1234> i man obviously they are different, but i think they are both pretty bad
<shauno> I find with a tablet I have to watch the keys as I type.  or the output atleast.  not that my typing/spelling is stellar mechanically, but it's easier at least
<ali1234> i have to do that on any keyboard
<ali1234> i never learned to touch type
<shauno> I'm not sure I did either. someone once commented that my typing had excelled 'hunt and peck' to 'search and destroy'.  I like this comparison
<ali1234> lol yes
<ali1234> i find tablet has better functionality for a small screen too
<ali1234> i mean a tablet is not a much smaller screen than a netbook, but the browser has really easy zooming and other features to compensate, which a netbook doesn't have
<shauno> screen doesn't both me so much.  but we don't have so many carts.  I like being mobile enough to squat in a corner.
<shauno> but this leads back to my ubuntu usage being "not the target market".  most my usage is deploying VMs that try to script what I'd like to do in person, but someone decided it's not economical to send me to singapore
<ali1234> well i don't like this "target market" stuff
<ali1234> the only time you hear about it is when you're not it
<shauno> same.  I understand it because somewhere down the line, you need some focus.  but it rarely works out well for me
<shauno> to date, the biggest win for me has been a pretty reliable release schedule
<shauno> I can't remember if it was woody or sarge, but this is where I've been burnt in the past
<ali1234> maybe... but... mobile, easy desktop, and servers is a bit of a weird combination
<shauno> servers are weird as hell.  but for non-cloud stuff, being told up-front that we'll be supported for 5 years is all we want
<shauno> as long as I know the next release is roughly two years, and the current release is supported +2, it's golden
<shauno> cloud is a whole different world, but the bearded market is quite happy if they have a good idea of when EOL is years before they hit it
<ball> I just logged into ftp.ubuntu.com in search of iso images
<ball> It occurs to me that I have no idea what the latest release is called.
<ball> I'm used to version numbers :-)
<stgraber> ball: ftp.ubuntu.com is the wrong place anyway. You want releases.ubuntu.com or cdimage.ubuntu.com (or really, just go on the website to download it)
 * ball nods
<ball> I've given up and gone to the Website.
<ball> There we go.  I found some 12.10 .torrent files.
 * sebsebseb remembers ball kind of
<sebsebseb> uh cold night :(
<ball> Remind me not to press that button...
<diplo> Morning all
<diplo> Anyone using owncloud in here ?
<popey> marxjohnson is
<diplo> Been debating moving my calendar/contacts over, not worried about the backup side but it's a nice plus
<diplo> Will see if he pops up from your highlight, cheers :)
<AlanBell> I installed it, but it got upset with me about file syncing
<diplo> I tried it many many moons ago, before the had the commercial side
<diplo> Thinking i ought to make more use of my VPS
<diplo> https://github.com/tooxie/shiva-server - trying this as well
 * redtape-renegade realises Gubuntu will run Epiphany as a Web browser, but it won't do Weppy,,
<mungbean> i use owncloud diplo
<mungbean> takes 10 mins to install
<mungbean> already saved my butt when my colleague kicked my pc over and the disk died
<diplo> mungbean: What do you use it for, just the syncing or for calendar/contacts?
<redtape-renegade> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=WebP&diff=543477520&oldid=543263133 ^back#6
<redtape-renegade> Errata ^back#5
<mungbean> diplo: syncing only
<mungbean> but the other features are easy
<mungbean> they are webdav i think
<diplo> I've been debating it for months, and to start doing my own email again
<diplo> So I guess this is the time
<mungbean> own email = zimbra
<diplo> Bit heavy for a vps ?
<diplo> Looked at that a long time ago as well
<mungbean> no, a colleague of mine is doing it ok
<diplo> OK, will take a look at that as well
<mungbean> you can turn off certain services you dont need
<mungbean> and has calendaring contacts etc for you
<JamesTait> Happy Pi Day, everyone! (And happy birthday to Albert Einstein, if he were still around)
<mungbean> my zimbra server had 100% uptime last few years
<diplo> I want to integrate calendar/contacts into my phone is basically the main feature i want, I use my phone for everything like that ( forgetful! )
<mungbean> pi day you say? would be good if my baby comes today
<mungbean> diplo: zimbra paid edition has activesync which improves the integration further
<mungbean> but yuo'd prob need a provider for that
<mungbean> i have the paid one
<mungbean> i should sell mailboxes :P
<JamesTait> mungbean, it only works in US notation, unfortunately, but it's still a good date for a birthday. :)
<mungbean> yeah, although 13/3/13 was a good day
<diplo> mungbean: Expensive? Not to worried for paying for something if it works well
<mungbean> diplo: pricey for individual licence from zimbra, since generally its for an etnerprise setup, hence the availiabilty of zimbra providers
<mungbean> i mean that licence packs are in multiples of 25
<directhex> owncloud doesn't scale.
<kvarley-uni> Is it possible to read "Mac OS Extended (Case-Sensitive, Journaled)" filesystems in Ubuntu?
<directhex> kvarley-uni, hfsplus? yes
<kvarley-uni> directhex: Foolishly I bought a new external hard drive and formatted it to EXT4, then got to uni and realised that I can't use it
<directhex> kvarley-uni, coulda told you that
<kvarley-uni> hehe
<kvarley-uni> I'm too used to having access to linux systems :)
<directhex> in fact, didn't you ask which FS to use and you were told fat32?
<directhex> someone did
<directhex> #ubuntu-uk.10.log:10-03-2013 10:19:28 > directhex: kvarley, fat32, unless you need files >4GB
<kvarley-uni> Yes, but I need > 4GB files
<kvarley-uni> The drive is going to hold a HD video project
<aquarius> ntfs for you, then :)
<directhex> can you write ntfs from a mac?
<kvarley-uni> No option for NTFS on these macs
<directhex> trying to think which fs has write support on mac, windows, linux, and >4G files
<directhex> UDF, assuming modern windows?
<kvarley-uni> No option
<kvarley-uni> FAT, ExFAT, or Mac OS Extended - that's all the options I have
<jacobw> Hmm, Windows does UDF?
<Laney> Apologies, your Amazon parcel 5333930057 has been delayed in the DPD network and is rescheduled for delivery 15 March.
<Laney> even in disappointment DPD win
<kvarley-uni> Laney: They're pretty good. :)
<directhex> no option? mkudffs!
<kvarley-uni> These macs are network booted from what I can tell, nothing is installed that should be for FS management
<kvarley-uni> I've done it as Mac OS Extended, seems to work
<kvarley-uni> Not the end of the world if it's mac only
<popey> so format it on another machine which does ?
<kvarley-uni> popey: I'm at uni, have a choice of Mac or PC - both of which are network booted and locked down / missing stuff
<popey> sucks to be you âº
<kvarley-uni> Hey, if I had anything to do with it they'd all be running Linux ;)
<popey> so format as whatever the mac loves, take stuff home, copy off, reformat, copy back on
<kvarley-uni> Yup :)
<kvarley-uni> Anyway, off to a lecture. Thanks for the help directhex aquarius popey
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<DJones> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning DJones
<redtape-renegade> AlanBell, Good luck at 8pm http://is.gd/G6RdVp #sdkmaintainers #days
 * popey blinks
 * AlanBell has nothing to do with that
 * nperry hints it says popey :P
<diplo> AlanBell: Hows the new member of staff getting on ?
<SuperMatt> has anyone bought a licence for sublime2?
<popey> I'm sure some people have
<directhex> http://i.cr3ation.co.uk/dl/s1/gif/sublime.gif
<directhex> oh, sublime 2.
<directhex> http://i.cr3ation.co.uk/dl/s1/gif/sublime.gif http://i.cr3ation.co.uk/dl/s1/gif/sublime.gif
<SuperMatt> is it worth it?
<SuperMatt> directhex: funny you pick that site, cr3 is a friend of mine
<popey> i thought you could test it for free?
<popey> I certainly have it installed here
<SuperMatt> You can
<SuperMatt> I don't really know what I'm getting at here
<SuperMatt> I just wonder if people feel that it really is a good editor or not
<diplo> It seems good, sftp support is the bit I don't like so don't use it
<diplo> Geany/Komodo Edit/Vi for me still
<diplo> Notepad++ on windows a lot of the time
<DJones> SuperMatt: Did you see the article on The register a day or so back about sublime
<SuperMatt> I saw it, but I didn't read it
<DJones> SuperMatt: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/03/11/verity_stob_text_editor/ It was comparing it with another text editor (on windows) but might be worth a read
<davmor2> Morning all
<hoover> hi folks
<davmor2> morning hoover
<nigelb> Hey davmor2
<davmor2> nigelb: hey dude
<davmor2> nigelb: how's life?
<nigelb> Pretty good. How's yours?
<Myrtti> awwww. Offbeat Home & Life has a cute article on taking chickens to a vet
<AlanBell> chickens \o/
<czajkowski> oh dear
<davmor2> czajkowski: you can oh dear all you want you are a chicken carer now too :P
<czajkowski> davmor2: http://exastack.com/webcam/
<czajkowski> because one cam wasn't enough to make sure they were ok during the day
<dwatkins> haha "So when we use the output of one yes command as the argument for another, the outer yes command fills up the computerâs memory with the output of the inner yes command. Then I have to restart my computer and feel stupid."
<davmor2> czajkowski: muhahaha
<davmor2> czajkowski: sadly I can see you having a tab open to it all day too :P
<czajkowski> narp
<czajkowski> need my machine to behave for you know that toher work I do :)
<Myrtti> http://www.eenet.ee/EENet/saunja.html
<Laney> bwaaaaaaaaak
<Laney> there should be a button to make a loud noise so that that eagle does something
<aquarius> the owncloud rss reader: I can't find any details about it or how to run it without running all of owncloud. Am I looking in the wrong place?
<aquarius> marxjohn1on, ^ :)
<Myrtti> my options seem to be either Feedly, if I want absolutely no fuss, Newsblur if my shellprovider installs it for all customers on their server, or TinyTinyRSS on the home server, if I really want to install and tweak.
<popey> the old reader?
<Myrtti> does it have an API to use it with other apps on other devices?
<Myrtti> as they seem to not yet have a client app of their own
<marxjohn1on> aquarius: it's an owncloud "app" i.e. runs on top of owncloud
<marxjohn1on> so I dont think you can
<directhex> owncloud is a big wobbly unstable php framework for stuff to time out on
<aquarius> marxjohn1on, oh, it only runs on that one platform? ok, nm then, I shall continue looking.
 * directhex might be bitter
<directhex> if you make a stable version release that is impossible to install, you fail at computer
<marxjohn1on> aquarius: whcre that one platform is any PHP webserver, yes
<marxjohn1on> directhex:
<aquarius> marxjohn1on, ah, that's not quite what I meant. I have a php webserver, but all I want is to try out an rss reader. I don't want or care about the rest of owncloud. :)
<marxjohn1on> right you are
<marxjohn1on> directhex, sync client is very dodgy but I find the rest stable enough for daily use
<directhex> marxjohn1on, for what i was evaluating, sync was the important part
<directhex> and now i don't trust it enough to use other pieces like calendar
<Myrtti> aquarius: http://tt-rss.org/redmine/projects/tt-rss/wiki
<aquarius> Myrtti, ttrss specifically says to not run it on shared hosting, which is what I've got.
<Myrtti> aquarius: "might work"
<aquarius> my days of fighting with stuff where the app's *creator* says "hey, this might work and might not" (and will doubtless say "we warned you" if I have questions) are long past.
<Myrtti> newsblur seems to use Django, Mongo and Postgres
 * redtape-renegade facepalms 
<redtape-renegade> If only PG Tips wouldn't want me to use two teabags !
 * dwatkins hands redtape-renegade a monkey to make tea
<redtape-renegade> dwatkins, Is that a Sea Monkey ?
<dwatkins> haha no
<dwatkins> that makes your web pages for you
<dogmatic69> installing an app and this happened http://i.imgur.com/O55VhHW.png
<davmor2> dogmatic69: file a bug please, that shouldn't happen :)
<redtape-renegade> Sorry for that dwatkins | Just listening to Back to the Sea off Christmas '11 playlist (??) :: http://open.spotify.com/track/34LYvEzYNeuDOhKnKBO8dl
<dogmatic69> davmor2: about 30 min ago everything crashed so the display thing restarted. probably that.
<dogmatic69> I think a restart and it would be normal again
<neuro> pfsense woo
<Myrtti> ooh
<Myrtti> http://inhabitat.com/the-spamcam-is-a-clever-pinhole-camera-made-from-a-can-of-spam/
 * neuro makes more pfsense woo noises
<neuro> ipv6 ftw
<davmor2> neuro: you still like your firewalls then :)
<neuro> seems so
<neuro> pfsense 2.1 running on a vmware esxi box
<neuro> connected directly to 2x openreach fttc modems
<neuro> (so in theory I can bin my sky and bt routers)
<neuro> policy based routing lets me punt specific machines over specific gateways
<neuro> ipv6 tunnel activated from he.net
<neuro> qos to make sure my xbox traffic gets higher priority than p2p
<neuro> i can't imagine a certain non-rough distro letting me do all that
<neuro> being able ro run it on a vm as well though, that's the nicest bit of win
<neuro> hardware-- :)
<neuro> davmor2: in saying all that, i haven't actually poked at the innards of a firewall distro in many years
<redtape-renegade> Where is a good place to buy a slot cover for a Pci-eXPRESS (soz for caps) for a desktop ?? They're all the same for HTPC's aren't they [??]
<MartijnVdS> redtape-renegade: you mean low-profile PCI-e?
<redtape-renegade> MartijnVdS, I'll PM you.. as I don't to goose this one..
<MartijnVdS> redtape-renegade: google a picture of it, post a link here :)
 * redtape-renegade looses MartijnVdS somewhere near i.imgur.com .. redtape-renegade should've used flickr instead  ^_^ :(
<redtape-renegade> All I can hear from the search Party is "It's down there , somewhere !!" .. poor MartijnVdS . All they have is lights off their CigLite's.
<MartijnVdS> Woo, Day of Defeat (+ DoD: Source) available for Steam-for-Linux
<redtape-renegade> Someone's seen him .. http://3rdwiki.tumblr.com/private/45337715734/tumblr_mjjvidfc
<redtape-renegade> ACTION: call off search party [phew].
<redtape-renegade> What about 'Darkest Hour' .. is that available on | Oh what-da-ya-know :: http://store.steampowered.com/app/1280/  .. Any Zombie's tottling piano's on that one ?
<redtape-renegade> Ghehe 'cos I can't get enough of that  _[!!]_
<redtape-renegade> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org.uk .. is that the address ??
<popey> !podcast
<lubotu3> Grab the lastest Ubuntu UK Podcast from http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org
<redtape-renegade> popey, Great, are they talking about the winblows new browser this week ?
<popey> "they"?
<directhex> the illuminati
<directhex> majestic 12 are reviewing office 365
<mgdm> 'winblows'
<mgdm> there's a word I've not seen in ages
<directhex> mgdm, dont forget micro$haft!
<mgdm> blimey, it's like 2001 again!
<redtape-renegade> mgdm, dont forget w$ndows !
<directhex> i see "vista 8" a lot in certain corners of the idiotsphere
<directhex> the parts that struggle to do up their own trousers
<mgdm> About those colourful metaphors... I don't think you should use them any more. For one thing, you've not quite got the knack of it.
<directhex> i'm fabulous at it
<directhex> years of practice
<directhex> now, on to more important issues. time for more far cry 3!
<mgdm> I heard you're going for the postgraduate degree? :)
<directhex> i have a degree of jerkology and jerkonomy
<AlanBell> ooh an Ology \o/
<daubers> Hmm... installing owncloud is remarkably easy
<bittin> awesome with weekly podcast :)
<redtape-renegade> Maego .. What a freudian slip up .. http://identi.ca/main/poll/d21c2bc5-4fd3-4c61-a547-2b5a8a922448
<Myrtti> where is that?
<popey> redtape-renegade: ??
<Myrtti> seems quite random
<popey> always is
<bittin> facebook changed back my name to my real name after i scanned my ID card :p
<bigcalm> I have a database table with meter readings taken every 5 mins. That's 288 records per day. I have 3 months worth of the data. How would I construct a SQL query to get the last meter reading per day?
<AlanBell> as in the 23:55 reading of every day?
<bigcalm> Yep
<bigcalm> But it might not be at 23:55
<bigcalm> It might be at 23:59
<AlanBell> yup, just checking I understood "last"
<bigcalm> Ok :)
<bigcalm> I could add an extra clause that tested the formatted date is between 23:55 and 23:59
<bigcalm> Thanks AlanBell :)
<bigcalm> Now I need to work out how to write that as DQL
<AlanBell> that would be a rough and ready way to do it :)
<bigcalm> AlanBell: I'm open to better ideas :D
 * AlanBell looks for a table with timestamps in it
<bigcalm> Happy to send you a dump :)
<bigcalm> MySQL
<AlanBell> found one
<AlanBell> select max(createdtime) from vtiger_crmentity group by date(createdtime)
<AlanBell> that appears to work
<bigcalm> Aha, yes, grouping by date
<bigcalm> Though the datetime would need to be formatted to lack hh:mm
<mgdm> You can do a date format thing to make it Y-m-d
<AlanBell> this uses actual dates
<AlanBell> select max(readingtime) from meterreadings group by date(readingtime)
<AlanBell> then join it back to itself to read the rest of the fields
<bigcalm> Humm
<AlanBell> might want to create an index on that timestamp field
<AlanBell> select * from readings inner join
<AlanBell> (select max(readingtime) as timestamp from readings group by date(readingtime) ) readings2
<AlanBell> on readingtime=readings2.timestamp
<AlanBell> that should work
<AlanBell> and create an index on the readingtiem column
#ubuntu-uk 2013-03-15
<Knightwise> morning everyone
<kvarley> neuro: Found another aspect of Macs that I find really un-intuitive - iMovie 11 for OS X has no "Save" or "Save As" function for projects.
<redtape-renegade> Up early knightwise .. {??} Clear the skies be, where you are ?
<redtape-renegade> Here, not so much.
<redtape-renegade> **Here; not so much.
 * redtape-renegade explodes a mouthful of Tesco Frosted Shreaded Wheat across the Hall *cOUGH*
<jacobw> Morning
 * redtape-renegade talks to T. Roll Holder about Ubuntu Uk Podcast from last night .... Toilet Roll Holder says: "Son, you need more toilet paper !" Good moro, jacobw,  
<popey> Morning
<kvarley> Glovebox for Android mimics the Ubuntu Phone launcher :)
<redtape-renegade> popey, I meant "Maego" as in 26:34 - *27:47*-0ff Episode 3. I didn't mean anything random by it, sorry you were miffed. soz.
<popey> redtape-renegade: I was miffed? Sorry, i just don't understand.
<popey> redtape-renegade: you often post what seem like a jumble of words and a url, and I have to read and re-read what you type to try and get what you're saying, sorry.
<redtape-renegade> ok, I try to be clearer today. 'nuff of Apologies.
<diplo> Morning all
<Myrtti> myh
<directhex> is it?
<jacobw> It is morning, whether this morning is a good morning is always debatable.
<jacobw> Good morning ivanka
<diplo> It's why I never say Good on my morning message :)
<dwatkins> moin moin
<TheOpenSourcerer> boo
<czajkowski> aloha
<ivanka> morning jacobw
<knightwise> aloha
<kvarley> What SIMPLE chat servers are there?
<kvarley> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIMPLE
<redtape-renegade> Whoopie.. pay day today ! .. redtape-renegade invests in a bluetooth 3.5 jack adapter.
<jpds> kvarley: I guess https://jitsi.org/ is the closest you'll get to it.
<kvarley> jpds: SIMPLE isn't commonly used?
<jpds> kvarley: Well, Wikipedia says: "Implementations of the SIMPLE based protocols can be found in SIP Softphones and also in SIP Hardphones."
<kvarley> jpds: Ok, I'll stick with XMPP then
<dogmatic69> anyone running sim city?
<dogmatic69> the new one that is
<brobostigon> good morning everyone
<directhex> dogmatic69, nobody is. it doesn't work, remember? :p
<czajkowski> ohhhh I have a date got for the next hackntalk  29th June 11am -5pm
<jpds> czajkowski: You have a date?
<czajkowski> yes
<redtape-renegade> Is his name " Olive " czajkowski ?
<czajkowski> :/
<redtape-renegade> sorry meant jon.
<redtape-renegade> czajkowski, S0oo , when is date night ?
<popey> 10:38:43 < czajkowski> ohhhh I have a date got for the next hackntalk  29th June 11am -5pm
<directhex> ikonia, so how awersome is train driving?
<popey> \o/ Trains!
 * redtape-renegade slaps himself = Saturday , Armed Forces Day.
<kvarley> Does DNS require 3 A records?
<redtape-renegade> kvarley, I think AlanBell will help you out with that. He sorted out my DVD drive anyway.
<czajkowski> jelmer: loads of time to get a talk ready :)
<knightwise> hey guys
<Laney> :( cold tea :(
<czajkowski> Laney: oh so wrong
<Laney> correct
<Laney> my teapot situation needs improvement
<popey> get an x220 and put your teapot next to it to keep it warm
<czajkowski> lol
<popey> bug 1155562
<popey> BAH!
<lubotu3> bug 1155562 in Unity "New shutdown dialog no longer keyboard navigable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1155562
<czajkowski> oh yes
<czajkowski> I also found it rather ugly
<czajkowski> two square boxes
<Laney> you can press the right arrow?
<popey> oh, that's good, I'll only be slightly late to the party
 * popey changes bug report
<popey> thanks Laney
<popey> bug 1155562
<lubotu3> bug 1155562 in Unity "New shutdown dialog had no default option selected" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1155562
<popey> :>
<popey> bug 1155542  is more annoying
<lubotu3> bug 1155542 in compiz (Ubuntu) "compiz (opengl) - Error: FBO is incomplete: GL::FRAMEBUFFER_INCOMPLETE_ATTACHMENT (0x8cd6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1155542
<diplo> Any thoughts please guys
<diplo> We run Draytek 2920s at our customer sites
<diplo> Nat port forwarding doesn't allow me to only allow single ip to forward to a certain port
<diplo> It's Internet > Port number > Internal IP
<diplo> I need to connect nagios monitoring using check_by_ssh, so was thinking on the remote box of using allowedusers in sshd_config to allow connections in via user/host
<diplo> Can't force keys related to other issues with software that are not yet resolved.
<diplo> Any thoughts on suggestions on a way round apart from current suggestion?
<ikonia> directhex: it's fortunate I survived the night
<ali1234> diplo: you should be able to firewall the port independently in the firewall section
<directhex> ikonia, why, were you playing the zombie dlc?
<diplo> Not that I can see the option of, will just take another look
<ikonia> directhex: I'll download the expansion pack
<ikonia> directhex: it was dull
<ikonia> but very realistic, I had my hours slashed and my pay cut and I was forced to work with unsafe train driving practices, I made trains very late. It was quite realsitic
<ali1234> diplo: draytek has online webif demos btw http://www.draytek.com/.upload/Demo/Vigor2920/v3.3.6.1/
<ali1234> i can't figure it out though :(
<diplo> ooh, I've never seen those.. just tring to get a router I can test on without being shouted at
<diplo> Cheers
<diplo> http://www.draytek.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=1423:faq-article-1423&Itemid=293&lang=en
<diplo> Is the answer, thanks I hope.. waiting on a router now
<popey> directhex: your tweet reminded me of http://litl.com/webbook/meet-webbook/
<diplo> OK, think I'm past the Firewall issue, /var/log/secure I'm getting 'Did not receive identification string from UNKWOWN' the first attempt it did have my IP
<diplo> ssh -vvv gets connection established and then hangs there waiting, probably ref the message above, but not found a solution yet, keeping googling but thought i'd ask here as well
<AlanBell> diplo: packet size mtu thing?
<diplo> Maybe, I've an idea it may be a routing issue as well, can connect in but the sshd cant respond
<diplo> It was routing... clicked as I typed :)
<diplo> woohoooo
<ali1234> how do i unpack a mac .dmg?
<mgdm> It's essentially a loopback filesystem, so you'll need to mount it somehow
<mgdm> ali1234: I presume you mean on Linux? What does the output of file tell you? It might just say HFS file system
<ali1234> mount -t hfs -o loop apparently
<ali1234> no, it doesn't
<mgdm> I've seen a distro where it did and another where it didn't
<ali1234> file says VAX COFF executable not stripped - version 376
<ali1234> i get the feeling that's nonsense
<mgdm> well that's probably not quite accurate
<ali1234> file isn't perfect :)
<mgdm> No, but it's occasionally better than hexdump :P
<ali1234> mounting as hfs failed
<directhex> you need to convert the dmg to something more sane
<directhex> *then* mount
<directhex> also, hfsplus
<ali1234> hfsplus didn't work either
<directhex> you installed dmg2img?
<directhex> <directhex> you need to convert the dmg to something more sane
<ali1234> got it
<directhex> largely the issue is compressed dmgs
<directhex> you can usually convince mount to mount uncompressed dmgs
<ali1234> lol it has .h files in it
<ali1234> why?
<directhex> what does?
<ali1234> torchlight.dmg
<ali1234> has the ogre devel headers inside it
<directhex> for modding, maybe?
<ali1234> i doubt it
<directhex> or does shader compilation need them?
<ali1234> nope, that's Cg
<ali1234> and neither the linux nor windows version includes these
<ali1234> i guess it's some oddity of OS X, or someone goofed
<directhex> consequences will never be the same again.
<ali1234> so, this is weird
<ali1234> torchlight on windows uses libOIS
<ali1234> linux it uses SDL
<ali1234> and mac it uses neither... so platform native implementation
<ali1234> also, SDL2
<directhex> well, SDL2 is popular amongst the linux porting crowd right now
<ali1234> yep... but OIS works fine on linux
<ali1234> it's even in the repos
<ali1234> SDL is arguably better
<directhex> so ask the porter why not OIS?
<ali1234> it's at least better maintained
<directhex> /whois urkle
<ali1234> i'm actually more surprised they didn;t just use SDL under windows
<directhex> for that you need to ask the original devs
<directhex> subcontracted port to linux
<ali1234> i suspect it's because all the ogre tutorials say use OIS
<ali1234> i'm looking at this cos it's the only game i know that uses ogre and is relatively cross platform
<ali1234> so trying to figure out what i'll need to package up
<ali1234> https://github.com/urkle/ois ..... ok
<directhex> heh
<brobostigon> any ideas, of where to find more information on openvpn's username/password authentication, i cant find anything helpful, i havent read already.
<directhex> brobostigon, i use an auth script
<directhex> (52 lines of perl, uses apache htpasswd file format as input)
<brobostigon> interesting, would that work on android aswell?
<directhex> sure.
<brobostigon> let me look up more information.
<directhex> http://paste.debian.net/241896/
<directhex> then add to your openvpn server conf file: auth-user-pass-verify /etc/openvpn/verify-password.pl via-file
<brobostigon> directhex: so i add the contents of that pastebin, to that perl file, ?
<directhex> brobostigon, yeah. and make sure it's executable, obviously
<directhex> you might also need
<directhex> client-cert-not-required
<directhex> username-as-common-name
<directhex> in your config
<brobostigon> ok, let me check.
<brobostigon> ok, one i had, the other i didnt.
<ali1234> i wonder how torchlight knows to get libs from /opt/torchlight/lib64
<directhex> startup script?
<ali1234> there's no startup script
<ali1234> if i ldd the binary directly it still finds them
<directhex> rpath
<ali1234> hmm... something to read about, thanks
<directhex> chrpath -l foo.bin
<ali1234> that modifies the executable?
<directhex> that shows the current rpaths encoded in the executable
<ali1234> ah but if i actually changed it... it will change the exe :)
<ali1234> RPATH=$ORIGIN/lib64
<ali1234> handy
<ali1234> presumably that's relative to the executable, so you can still install it anywhere
<kvarley> Can you quote BBC news articles on your own website? Their terms of service say scraping isn't allowed.
<ali1234> quote or repost verbatim?
<kvarley> Post the description for an article with a link to it
<kvarley> From their RSS feed
<kvarley> Basically replicating their RSS feed
<kvarley> I'm not trying to pass the content off as work of my own, just use it to link to articles on their website
<kvarley> ali1234: Google News posts stuff from BBC News on their News site
<ubuntubhoy> so you want to use their article description in a link to their original article ?
<ubuntubhoy> on their site
<ali1234> yeah but a load of newspapers hate that...
<Myrtti> kvarley: not the whole article, mind
<Myrtti> just excerpt from the beginning
 * brobostigon kicks openvpn up the butt.
<jelmer> czajkowski: heh
<directhex> i said what what
 * jelmer also finally made the name<->face connection for AlanBell
<kvarley> ubuntubhoy: Yes. Title, link and description
<czajkowski> jelmer: it's nice when that happens :)
<kvarley> ali1234: Why? It would give them traffic and I'm not passing off the content as my own. It's kinda what search engines do
<ali1234> cos they are like, totally stuck in the past, or something
<ubuntubhoy> kvarley: I dont see that being an issue - especially as it is a direct link to the article
<ubuntubhoy> if in doubt send off an email and ask
<ali1234> they have a whole department for dealing with requests like this
<ali1234> they will almost certainly say no
<kvarley> Ok, thanks :)
<ali1234> even if the request is totally reasonable
<kvarley> Ok, I can get super picky and make the whole thing with javascript
<kvarley> That way none of their content is stored on the servers :P
<ali1234> why do you even want to do this?
<kvarley> I have an idea, can't say at this point
<popey> its a Kaleo_
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> Any good dictionary in contrast to the word web available on Windows?
<kaushal> in Ubuntu
<ali1234> /usr/share/dict/words
<kaushal> ali1234: is there a package name?
<ali1234> no idea... it's just a list of words anyway
<ali1234> it's installed by default
<ali1234> used for "weak password" detection and etc
<popey> also used for making hostnames on the original nexus 7 ubuntu build
<popey> which led to an amusing hostname of nexus7-mo***fo**
<popey> I didnt realise that word was in the dictionary :D
<ali1234> lol, the odds must be incredible
<kaushal> popey: i see stardict, artha and goldendict
<popey> thats nice for you âº
<kaushal> any others which is comparable to Word Web?
<popey> no idea
<kaushal> popey: just curious to know the simley âº
<kaushal> how did you do it?
<kaushal> I am using irssi
<ali1234> 1/8263 chance to get an f, 1/19831 to get an mf
<ubuntubhoy> unless you goto McD's - you mf's there all the time
<popey> kaushal: i have an alias which turns colon-close parantheses to âº
<popey> and â¹
<popey> and â â and others
<popey> Êâ¿à² 
<ali1234> "monocle guy"
<kaushal> popey: any howtos or guides?
<kaushal> popey: its awesome :D
<popey> alias
<kaushal> popey: Thanks
<kaushal> popey: i will ping you later
<popey> why?
<ali1234> omg
<ali1234> i found grumpy cat in unicode check it out
<ali1234> â¤
<jpds> â¤
<ali1234> the only smiley i'll ever need
<popey> excellent
<AlanBell> how do you type it?
<ali1234> no idea i copy pasted
<ali1234> http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/2324/index.htm
<directhex> there are already lots of cat glyphs
<directhex> grumpy cat is ð¾
<popey> that doesnt show for me
<directhex> get a better font then
<xnox> something is beeping in my room and i cannot find it
<directhex> http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f63e/index.htm
<popey> awwww
<directhex> unicode 6 \o/
<popey> ð¾
<popey> bah
<directhex> working here!
<mungbean> new baby \o/
<popey> U+3511f DEITY ON SELF-POWERED TRANSPORTATION DEVICE
<popey> mungbean: well done you!
<Myrtti> mungbean: congrats on forking the process, then? :-D
<mungbean> mungbean: yes, life on hard mode now
<mungbean> woops meant to say Myrtti
<mungbean> haven't slept much
<directhex> newborns are easy. they don't do anything. except keep you awake, i guess
<directhex> but they're simple
<mungbean> except when u have a toddler already :S
<mungbean> proud of mrs mungbean
<mungbean> been in since the 12th
<mungbean> and baby came on pi day :D
<popey> The 3rd of Noctember?
<mungbean> yes ideally :D
<mungbean> have to accept the evil/incorrect US format
<diplo> Anyone try connecting to a host for me to see if it fails ?
<diplo> ssh root@82.69.196.150
<diplo> also try
<diplo> ssh root@82.69.196.150 -p 8022 or 8023
<popey> diplo: none work
<diplo> cool, heh multiple entries now. thanks all
<diplo> heh a bitfolk user as well :D
<shauno> that might be me :)  (.137).  timeed out on all
<diplo> heh yep :)
<diplo> ta
<diplo> I'd tried from 3 of my remote hosts and played soooooo much with it I wanted to be sure it really was locked down and not me breaking something locally
<shauno> yeah, I've done that.  ended up on my own denyhosts whilst testing, and then assuming it was locked down because it didn't work from here
<diplo> Taken me ALOT longer than I was anticipating :)
<sebsebseb> hi
<diplo> sebsebseb: Are you on Bristol lug ?
<sebsebseb> diplo: Why?
<sebsebseb> diplo:  On in what context? going to?
<diplo> Just recognise the name from emails :)
<kvarley> Just pulled a drive out of a 2 drive NAS and it's raided
<kvarley> How can I mount one drive at a time?
<kvarley> /dev/sdb2 reports "raid" as a flag but no fs type
<popey> kvarley: depends what type of RAID
<popey> you can mdadm scan it
<popey> if it's RAID0 though, you'll not get anything useful off it
<sebsebseb> hi popey
<BigRedS> Anyone know what I need in order that calibre can convert SGML to a Kindle book?
<kvarley> popey: Raid level reported is raid0 dammit
<xnox> kvarley: so half the time you will read half the data basically
<popey> hello sebsebseb
<popey> kvarley: why, did one disk fail, and this is the other one?
<sebsebseb> diplo: Richard Stallman talk next week in Batth
<sebsebseb> diplo: so I am probably going to that
<sebsebseb> Bath above
<diplo> I'll be in Spain :)
<kvarley> popey: I have an old NAS and have forgotted all the usernames and passwords
<kvarley> Seeing if I can reset it
<diplo> Looking out the window, quite glad tbh
<sebsebseb> looking out the window ???
<diplo> Pouring with rain
<sebsebseb> oh?
<sebsebseb> you mean here or?
<diplo> Has been for the last few hours, yeah
<sebsebseb> yep indeed been raining where I am today as well
<diplo> 25oC where I'm going :F
<sebsebseb> yep not Spring here yet
<popey> kvarley: plug both drives in
<sebsebseb> where are you going in SPain?
<popey> then mdadm scan it, and you should be able to bring it up
<diplo> A place near alicante
<sebsebseb> not sure where that is, but ok
<kvarley> Just downloaded a PDF with firefox to open in firefox and it started looping endlessly, opening the PDF in new tabs lol
<kvarley> popey: Ok, then I can access the drive as if it was one drive like when it was in the NAS?
<shauno> trying to add my dropbox folder to owncloud just went crazy.  seems they don't agree with each other
<kvarley> popey: It works \0/
<popey> \o/
<kvarley> Feels weird that the NAS was only 500GB with 2x 250GB drives
<kvarley> Now you can get 4TB drives 0.o
<redtape-renegade> If only my desktop was as good as this :: http://goo.gl/14Jrh  [ popey nut me I'm doing it again ]
<diplo> kvarley: As long as the firmware supports it
<kvarley> diplo: I just meant it's funny how quick these things change, at the time 500GB was an insane amount.
<diplo> My brother told me when I first got into PC's I'd never fill up 60gb drive :)
<kvarley> diplo: Hehe :P
<kvarley> Wow, I'm getting 44 MB/sec from these old drives
<kvarley> Oh lol, forgot they were raid
<d3pd> I want to try Ubuntu Touch on the Nexus One. I am aware that this device is not supported officially. Is it possible to force phablet-flash to install?
<dogmatic69> spice rack: http://www.instructables.com/id/LEGO-Spice-Rack/
<popey> d3pd: you probably want #ubuntu-touch
<popey> bah
 * redtape-renegade formats sda6 on EXT4. WARNING Will Robinson..
<MartijnVdS> redtape-renegade: as long as it's not your /
<shauno> not anymore it ain't ;)
<redtape-renegade> MartijnVdS, I didn't tell it .. what does it do by default ?
<redtape-renegade> shauno, Looks like I'm spinning plates for the next 3 hours :p
<redtape-renegade> Aaah, finished .. but it says there is no 'used space' in the 'Used' column .. looks like I've cleared the hurdle.
<redtape-renegade> I can mount it to [ / , /boot , /home , /tmp , /usr , /var , /srv , /opt , or /user/local  | ]   MartijnVdS, shauno:  which one should I choose ?
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: did your camera hacking ever get anywhere? Which camera model did you have again?
<redtape-renegade> ali1234, QUESTION: Can't remember the name of the FFox Add-on that you said to use to download youtube videos ??
<MartijnVdS> redtape-renegade: let's see.. https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/easy-youtube-video-downl-10137/ is the first hit on google
<MartijnVdS> if you search on the Firefox plugin page itself, you get:
<MartijnVdS> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/flash-video-downloader-youtube/?src=search
<redtape-renegade> MartijnVdS, Do you use these add-ons yourself ?
<MartijnVdS> no, I don't download youtube vids
<MartijnVdS> I just watch them online ;)
<popey> downloading youtube videos is generally only useful if you think a video might get taken down :D
<MartijnVdS> apt-get install on raspberry pi is SLOOOOOW
<directhex> yeah, Pi is io constrained
<MartijnVdS> directhex: I have it playing 2 720p streams at once though
<MartijnVdS> so that's a win :)
<directhex> Pi is designed for one thing: playing HD video.
<redtape-renegade> MartijnVdS, WTHeck are you tell me this .. _??_ http://lmgtfy.com/?q=youtube+video+downloader
<MartijnVdS> directhex: text editing works fine too
<brobostigon> also works well as a dlna device.
<brobostigon> xbmc works pretty well.
<MartijnVdS> I imagine, yes :)
 * MartijnVdS is setting up something that shows 2 video streams (H.264.. so yay hardware decoding) + 1 scrolling "TODO" list
<MartijnVdS> however, the solution I had in mind (a web browser) scrolls slowly
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: I kind of wrote a new UI for it, but didn't hack the camera directly
<AlanBell> I hav a tenvis camera and another one, not sure the make
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: just generic "Chinese ebay camera"
<MartijnVdS> ?
<AlanBell> but any cheap motorised pan/tilt camera is the same thing
<MartijnVdS> +a
<AlanBell> yeah, they are all roughly the same, there is a binary that controls the camera, and some html web gui stuff that varies a bit
<MartijnVdS> ok, so it doesn't matter too much which one I get? Cool :)
<AlanBell> not too much
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<AlanBell> the second one I got had a slightly bigger range of motion
<MartijnVdS> yeah, some stream h.264 others only mjpe
<MartijnVdS> g
<AlanBell> ooh, h.264 would be good
<AlanBell> but that is only a software thing, I need to try reflashing this one with different firmware
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Internet-Camera-POZ-670W-MPEG-4-WIFI-480x640-PIXEL-/180721467987?pt=US_Surveillance_Security_Systems&hash=item2a13d6c253 :)
<AlanBell> I want to be able to telnet or ssh into it
<MartijnVdS> don't they run uclinux? (very very minimal)
<AlanBell> that one is a bit different, no IR LEDs
<MartijnVdS> it's not like routers.. that run openwrt
<MartijnVdS> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wireless-IP-Wifi-Cam-IR-LED-MPEG4-Network-WLAN-Camera-/350391545438?pt=US_Security_Cameras&hash=item5194f6ae5e (but lots of shipping â¬â¬)
<AlanBell> yeah, that is the formfactor I have, the fosscam ones are more expensive than the clones
<AlanBell> POZ <- wonder if that Z means zoom
<AlanBell> PTZ is pan/tilt/zoom
<AlanBell> dunno what the O would be
<MartijnVdS> typo? :)
<popey> evening all
<diplo> Evening all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<diplo> Anyone tried oauth with the sdk yet ?
<MartijnVdS> "the sdk"?
<diplo> ubuntu sdk, probably should have been clearer for the phoes
<diplo> phones*
<MartijnVdS> ah.. didn't try that
<diplo> Started making my first app, will ask in app channel after I'm back, just thought I'd see if anyone had here
<MartijnVdS> "diplo, app tycoon"
<diplo> app tycoon ?
<MartijnVdS> yeah, one of those people who gets rich off The Cool New App :)
<Laney> The hole in my finger where a chunk of flesh used to be don't 'arf hurt when it gets wet
<diplo> hah, nowt for money :)
<diplo> Want to make something useful for me, and see if I'm capable
<MartijnVdS> Laney: hole in your finger? doesn't sound right!
<Laney> feels pretty wrong too
<diplo> Got carried away with a knife Laney ?
<MartijnVdS> Laney: poidh ;)
<Laney> scissors
 * diplo buys Laney some kids scissors
<Laney> probably for the best
<czajkowski> Laney: please tell me it's stopped bleeding at this stage
<MartijnVdS> Well his words aren't red..
<MartijnVdS> but that might be the +c channelmode
<Laney> czajkowski: oh yeah that stopped after about an hour
<czajkowski> On todays how the hell did you do that... person created an ac on LP, created a project and 4 mins later locked themselves outta their project.
<MartijnVdS> Also on todays how the hell did you do that... a wound that bleeds for AN HOUR!?!?
<Laney> it went pretty deep
<Laney> i wonder if it'll come out on my phone camera
<czajkowski> MartijnVdS: hi have you met Laney he's rather special
<czajkowski> :)
<Laney> roirgaoigraeogae
<Laney> the camera app keeps crashing
<Laney> Ubuntu Touch would never do that
<Laney> czajkowski: MartijnVdS: Check G+ ;-)
<MartijnVdS> Laney: I don't see blood
<Laney> yeah the incident happened at lunch time
<MartijnVdS> The IncidentÂ®
<Laney> hmm, this evening went by fast
<Laney> it's basically saturday, which means it's nearly sunday which is the day before monday which means work oh god where did the weekend go
<shauno> I just work weekends.  skips the whole problem of getting your hopes up in the first place
<czajkowski> ah finally the weekend. big bang theory time \o/
<popey> czajkowski: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cf5L21jzRo
<czajkowski> popey: awwwww
<sebsebseb> popey: czajkowski Just read a really good article :) http://www.osnews.com/story/26866/Celebrate_Ubuntu_but_keep_an_eye_on_what_they_re_up_to_  how it begins and ends in particular
<sebsebseb> http://www.osnews.com/story/26866/Celebrate_Ubuntu_but_keep_an_eye_on_what_they_re_up_to_
<popey> that story has some errors :D
<popey> but interesting anyway
#ubuntu-uk 2013-03-16
<gebbione> hi all how do i check in a shell if statement if an argument exists in a safe way
<redtape-renegade> Morning, I'm in bed and no I don't like Felines !
<MartijnVdS> redtape-renegade: but they love you!
<redtape-renegade> join #freegamer
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning everyone - happy Super Saturday
<redtape-renegade> The rugby ? Who playin' , TheOpenSourcerer ??
 * redtape-renegade realises Angleterre is one.
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's Super Saturday - All three final matches of the 6 Nations
<redtape-renegade> .. Hav IRL played Italy yet ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> redtape-renegade: http://www.rbs6nations.com/en/matchcentre/match-centre_fixtures-results.php
<redtape-renegade> opening..
<redtape-renegade> [ Round 5
<redtape-renegade> Sat 16th Mar 13	14:30	Italy	  v  	Ireland	Stadio Olimpico ]] :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> And the current table: http://www.rbs6nations.com/en/match-centre_table.php
<redtape-renegade> opening...
<TheOpenSourcerer> A Cracking final day has been set up. France must try to stop getting the Wooden Spoon (and not winning a single match).
<TheOpenSourcerer> Wales must beat England by 8 points to win the tournament
<TheOpenSourcerer> If England win against Wales they do the Grand Slam
<redtape-renegade> I thought IRL were going to the grandslam ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<MartijnVdS> I thought "grand slam" was a tennis thing?
<TheOpenSourcerer> It just means winning all the matches in a group of them.
<redtape-renegade> MartijnVdS, Shut up this is a proper sport.
<redtape-renegade> TheOpenSourcerer, I don't get [ Pos
<redtape-renegade> 	Team
<redtape-renegade> 	P
<redtape-renegade> 	W
<redtape-renegade> 	D
<redtape-renegade> 	L
<redtape-renegade> 	F
<redtape-renegade> 	A
<redtape-renegade> 	PD
<redtape-renegade> 	TF
<redtape-renegade> 	Pt ]
<redtape-renegade> woops.
<TheOpenSourcerer> P - Played
<TheOpenSourcerer> W - Won
<TheOpenSourcerer> D - Drawn
<TheOpenSourcerer> L - Lord
<TheOpenSourcerer> F - Ponts For
<TheOpenSourcerer> A - Points Against
<TheOpenSourcerer> PD - Points Difference
<TheOpenSourcerer> TF - Tries For
<TheOpenSourcerer> Pts Points
<TheOpenSourcerer> L - Lots
<TheOpenSourcerer> gah
<TheOpenSourcerer> L - Lost
<redtape-renegade> Ahh .. So IRL can't be beat for the Grand Slam, then .. Have they  won it before since 1983 ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Dunno try Google.
 * redtape-renegade scans  lmgtfy
<kvarley> Struggling to setup an email server on a real domain, anybody have experience doing this and can guide me through?
<redtape-renegade> .. No they haven't NEWSFLASH ..  This is the 1st time in Rugby history, that they'll win it.
<TheOpenSourcerer> redtape-renegade: Ireland *cannot* do the Grand Slam. They have only won 1 game this tournament. The *only* team that can do the Grand Slam this year is England
<redtape-renegade> Oh , www.96fm.ie/boxtube/default was wrong then .. Propaganda -ho !
<redtape-renegade> .. they keep changing their story .. like Scarecrow Man. [!!]
 * redtape-renegade has a cup a Marvelous 'Lift' Red berry Cordial drink from Tresco.
 * redtape-renegade got TheOpenSourcerer 's  tweet this 'morning .. and agrees.
<redtape-renegade> Does TheOpenSourcerer want acouple of Kubuntu pen's . I've got 00's ??
<TheOpenSourcerer> No thanks.
<redtape-renegade> **100's .. Oh. very well.
<redtape-renegade> 'Jacques Brunel' [Italy coach ] .. such an unfortunate name.
<redtape-renegade> " Pengui-l " . means ' french-twerp'.. Prob.ly why Linux Penguin will never take off there.
<redtape-renegade> Meanwhile in Laaaaandon .. [ http://t.co/7bAChFl2hK ]
<shauno> penngwyn means white head, but it's not slowed the UK down
<redtape-renegade> shauno, Morning .. You going here at all ?? http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1484095571/the-nerdtacular-2013-fan-event
<redtape-renegade> shauno, S. Pats icon is on the www.96fm.ie .. Any thing happening in your area this weekend ?
<kvarley> Recommended email hosts?
<ali1234> mailinator
<redtape-renegade> kvarley, mailchimp.
<redtape-renegade> kvarley, ^ https://twitter.com/MailChimp ^
<redtape-renegade> FFoxy available now in Irish ,,, :: : http://t.co/pQm07dVKde
<redtape-renegade> ^ ** :: bit.ly/RFo8Wy
<redtape-renegade> ** www.bit.ly/RFo8Wy
<popey> morning
<redtape-renegade> Ever been to Gibralta popey ? .. saw this is registered there :: http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/flirt-planet-the-next-level?i=mabl
<popey> nope
<redtape-renegade> I got it off here BTW :; http://blog.indiegogo.com/2013/03/team-indiegogos-campaign-roundup-31513.html
<redtape-renegade> popey, Am I doing it, again ?
<MartijnVdS> redtape-renegade: this is not #linkdump :P
 * redtape-renegade kills himself with Salt.
<popey> thats a weird campaign
<popey> they claim they have the game working but want collaboration
<popey> but they don't say how you collaborate
<popey> just that giving them money is somehow collaborating
<jacobw> Morning
<Guest81041> top of the morning ta ya
<jacobw> The morning is top
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<jacobw> Yo brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning jacobw
<MartijnVdS> Old! :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjDSY8LczFw
<jacobw> MartijnVdS: Oh dera
<shauno> why does unicode in python always end up making me feel like a 5-year-old
<redtape-renegade> try www.realpython.com . The book is free if you want it from me. Although the forum is middling quality.
<directhex> shauno, because python is a language for 5 year olds?
 * directhex flees
<shauno> I keep trying, and I keep ending up back with php, which is even more painful to admit
<redtape-renegade> shauno, Did you try the webLink
<redtape-renegade> shauno,          ^ ??
<shauno> no, because it's easier to just rewrite it in a language that has strings, than to read a book about it :/
<redtape-renegade> Well, why the heck are you asking, when you don't follow my advice ??
 * redtape-renegade Grumbles.
<kvarley> Anybody know what kernel version ipv6 support got introduced as mainstream?
<shauno> it's not exact, but a ballpark from tldp; Note: you shouldn't anymore use kernel series 2.2.x, because it's not IPv6-up-to-date anymore. Also the IPv6 support in series 2.4.x is no longer improved according to definitions in latest RFCs. It's recommend to use series 2.6.x now.
<kvarley> Thanks shauno
<redtape-renegade> Apparently, were all supposed to be on 3.8.x now :::: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_kernel#Timeline
<MartijnVdS> good :)
<redtape-renegade> MartijnVdS, What be good ?
<MartijnVdS> that we're supposed to use a modern kernel
<redtape-renegade> :) Oh for a second, I thought you were typing about the Sky's pope former address'  ::: http://goo.gl/ca5nt
<kvarley> Getting awful network performance on LM
<redtape-renegade> kvarley, I would use kernel 2.5.75 BTW
<kvarley> redtape-renegade: Doesn't seem to be ipv6 at all, I have disabled it and am still getting awful performance
<redtape-renegade> kvarley, You don have pdns set up don't you ? ::: http://askubuntu.com/questions/59366/protecting-against-infinitely-slow-dns-servers/59406#59406
<redtape-renegade> **pdnsd
<kvarley> On transfers tho the speed is slow, so that means it's not DNS  right?
<kvarley> Strange, there are problems for the RTL8111/8168B chipset on Linux Mint but not Ubuntu. How does that work?
 * redtape-renegade hoover's.
<kvarley> How can I stop Linux from loading the incorrect module for my ethernet chipset?
<kvarley> It loads r8169 not r8168
<redtape-renegade> kvarley, Well my tech says the kernel that I said earlier works fine on his server.. that's all I got for you today, apologies.  QUESTION::: Has the match with England started yet ?
<redtape-renegade> kvarley, dunno if you got that: S0oo .. I'll repost it.
<redtape-renegade> kvarley, Well my tech guy says the kernel that I said earlier works fine on his server.. that's all I got for you today, apologies.  QUESTION::: Has the match with England started yet ?
<redtape-renegade> kvarley, Your connection is all over the place BTWay.
<kvarley> redtape-renegade: I know it's looking like an actual connection issue to me now
<redtape-renegade> WELL  if you don't use BIND9 which is in the software centre .. sudo apt-get install bind9  I can't help you.
<redtape-renegade> CALAV3RA, , Your connection is all over the place BTWay. Too.
 * redtape-renegade takes photo's for the Williams Doc.ods
<redtape-renegade> I looking for new digs.
<redtape-renegade> I've tried to call the removal men on T:07624 240024 but they just take mesages | no removals = no moulin rouge.
<redtape-renegade> Italy 3 : Ireland 3 .. Come on /Italians/
<redtape-renegade> Italy 6 : Ireland 3 .. there you go !!
<redtape-renegade> BAD news if you have a cypuot bank a/c :: European officials said people owning more money will lose 9.9 percent. Cypriot bank officials said that depositors can access all their money except the amount set by the levy.  :: http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/03/16/3289677/cypriots-rue-bailout-deals-bank.html#storylink=cpy  ::::http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/03/16/3289677/cypriots-rue-bailout-deals-bank.html    , soz for caps.
<redtape-renegade> Web Link :: http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/03/16/3289677/cypriots-rue-bailout-deals-bank.html
<kvarley> Is it bad if I just get an SSL certificate for domain.com and just redirect www.domain.com to domain.com ?
<dwatkins> kvarley: the certificate will either be for a specific hostname or a wildcard, *.domain.com
<kvarley> But is it bad to redirect www to a non-www domain just to give the user SSL
<dwatkins> gmail does a redirect a bit like that
<kvarley> Is it possible to have multiple vhosts with SSL enabled? I'm getting redirected to the incorrect vhost currently
<kvarley> Ah, it's 1 IP per SSL vhost
<popey> pip pip
<brobostigon> lets see who wins, relax with beer, and watch rugby,
<redtape-renegade> Nice tweet about that indiegogo campaign popey : Quite odd.
<popey> very
<redtape-renegade> Didn't see the video .. did it have a giraffe and bromance in it ?
<popey> hah
<redtape-renegade> Better than the gayball on at 5pm !
 * redtape-renegade wonders over to /.     :::            http://science.slashdot.org/story/13/03/16/144247/why-trolls-win-with-toxic-comments?utm_source=slashdot&utm_medium=twitter
<redtape-renegade> haha .. Italy 22 | Ireland 15 .. told you :p
<redtape-renegade> Did you all watch Red Nose Day ??    ....  http://twitpic.com/catgiv
<brian_> Hey guys. I've been unable to set up rules which allow me to access the internet using my VPN and only my VPN.
<brian_> Could anyone help me?
<brian_> I have GUFW and I've set a rule which enables me to connect to the VPN (To [IP] [Port]/udp, Allow Out, From Anywhere)
<brian_> Then I followed http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1496473
<brian_> Allow In Both To (Your IP, that you collected from whatismyip.com
<brian_> Allow Out Both From (The same IP again)
<brian_> I'm still completely unable to connect to websites when I reject outgoing connections by default.
<brian_> I'm using Ubuntu 12.10
<DJones> Heh, Spot the Welshman https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BFgDDFpCYAAb-Mg.jpg:large
<AlanBell> evening all
<AlanBell> do I want a wii u?
<penguin42> AlanBell: No
<redtape-renegade> AlanBell, You keep asking that: only the handset :S
<AlanBell> kids were asking again
<redtape-renegade> AlanBell> do I want a wii u? NO You were asking !  . AGAIN
<AlanBell> :)
<AlanBell> it got cheaper recently
<redtape-renegade> Wee all know Nintendo is the Marijana of Vita ! What's next the Easter Bunny ?  :O
<redtape-renegade> http://www.duracelldirect.co.uk/pno/bth0001a.html
<SuperEngineer>  Topic for #ubuntu-uk-meeting is: Next Meeting 16th Feb 20:00 UK Time... lol
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: It might be right
<redtape-renegade> What channel is it on ?
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: but you ain't there either
<SuperEngineer> i travelled back in time especially to check ;)
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Hmm that ability could be very useful
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Please pass on my apologies
 * AlanBell fixes
<AlanBell> kinda
<AlanBell> I do have to sort out the Bletchley park thing, that would be cool
<SuperEngineer> AlanBell: ;)
 * penguin42 went a couple of years ago - definitely worth it (conveniently near a train station)
<penguin42> https://plus.google.com/photos/118251468822440261663/albums/5492401778142755041   are my pictures from it
 * redtape-renegade eats his free KFChicken.. Scrumptuous !
<redtape-renegade> I'm just using Xubuntu as a client , but I dont know how to set preferences for changing the default Browser to Chromium .. Do you know how to do this ?
<redtape-renegade> seen shauno?
<redtape-renegade> !seen shauno?
<lubotu3> I have no seen command
#ubuntu-uk 2013-03-17
 * redtape-renegade puts all eyes on St. Anna (the church) for the definition of a Legal Mass by Mr. Francis.
<redtape-renegade> Shout-out, Alright there ! HAPPY ST PATRICKS DAY TO ONE AND ALL. :D
<redtape-renegade> (couldn't resist caps as I have already hat a pint of Guiness at 07:05 at the Olde Rovers Return, Church street due to the GrandPrix 24hr ::::::: opening hour Rule.)
<redtape-renegade> Alonso is 3rd BTW.
<redtape-renegade> popey,
<redtape-renegade> ^ was Right All Along ::  https://twitter.com/popey/status/304193686932164608
<redtape-renegade> +1 ! |   OH low point of my crazy drunkerd morning..  .  Morning !
<jacobw> Morning Ubuntoids
<redtape-renegade> Morning .. Do you know how to use TigerVNC atall jacobw ?
<jacobw> I know how to use VNC
<jacobw> redtape-renegade: What are you trying to do?
<redtape-renegade> I'm asking for a guy From India, but he's quit :S
<jacobw> I don't see
<redtape-renegade> Doesn't matter we was under " Tester34324 " anhow : Ply a joker .
<redtape-renegade> **anyhow...
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
 * redtape-renegade enters a raffle for a Kenny Dalglish Liverpool FC football shirt (framed) for Â£600 | Mon Deu, that's 600 stub tickets !!!
<jacobw> Afternoon
<bigcalm> directhex: how much of The Cave have you been playing?
<redtape-renegade> bigcalm, I'm still tryin' to get "Solar 2 " to work in Xubuntu - S0oo zero          :|
 * redtape-renegade eats good chow and special Gravy :D
<directhex> bigcalm, i finished a playthrough
<bigcalm> directhex: surprised how much fun it's been so far. Worth the money compared to some of the other puzzle games that have been on Steam
<bigcalm> redtape-renegade: Solar 2 works just fine on my set-up as well as my phone and tablet. Also a bit of fun
<bigcalm> directhex: I was going to ask for some help with the Time Machine stage, but I worked it out
<directhex> bigcalm, i could have helped! remember that you only have that stage if you picked the time traveller
<bigcalm> directhex: indeed. I was going in circles until I worked out how to make the well appear
<directhex> yeah, same
<bigcalm> I'm glad that each stage is self contained and that you don't need to remember to bring objects from previous stages
 * bigcalm was going to do some work. The Cave is more interesting though :D
<bigcalm> I'm in a boat!
<directhex> you mean you don't need the destroyed can of corn?
<directhex> :o
<bigcalm> Erk, I didn't bring it
<bigcalm> Roll out the barrel
<bigcalm>  Just finished 1 play though with the knight, hobo and time traveller. Wonder when I'll have another play
<redtape-renegade> bigcalm, I just bought Solar 2 twice ! Still can't get to install from the software center .. how do you do properly install it ?
<j0nr> hello all. Can anyone recommend some accounting software that is web based that I can install on my web server? I need to be able to track hours worked, produce invoices, track money in / out etc
<j0nr> I just came across webERP but don't think it does the time keeping I need
<AlanBell> j0nr: openerp might work, but it is potentially a bit overcomplicated
<bittin> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01r3xly :)
<bittin> BBC sometimes airs awesome stuff
#ubuntu-uk 2014-03-10
<neuro> guten tag meine herren und damen und roboten, haben sie gegessen eine flughafen?
<daftykins> ach ja, naturlich!
<neuro> sehr gut
<neuro> i'm just reading this: http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2014/03/bitcoin-exchange/
<neuro> what an omnishambles
<daftykins> aber nur ein sandwich
<neuro> "DER POLIZEI!"
<neuro> "Nur einmal"
<neuro> "Ha ha ha"
<neuro> "Mr. Takagi, I'm really not interested in your computer."
<ali1234> neuro: their transaction database was just leaked too
<neuro> "But I need the code key, because I am interested in the six hundred and forty million dollars in negotiable bearer bonds that you have locked in your vault."
<neuro> "And the computer ... controls the vault."
<ali1234> every account balance (but not username or email just an anonymous guid)
<neuro> ouch
<neuro> so glad i have never bothered with bitcoin
<ali1234> and also every transaction ever made, but again, no link to which account, just a (different) account guid
<ali1234> oh and also a list of deposits and withdrawals, again, completely anonymized
<neuro> but still
<ali1234> the data isn't complete either, but i can confirm it is legit
<ali1234> there is something more going on here than "lol hackers"
<shauno> it does seem that someone's not just trying to plunder it, but completely discredit it
<ali1234> yes, i totally agree
<ali1234> so far everything seems to have been leaked from the inside
<ali1234> or at least that is what someone wants people to think
<Hornet> neuro: 12.4 works, mostly
<Hornet> stuck at installing grub now, can't find a solution that seems to apply
<Hornet> the default attempt at installing on /sda fails and is a fatal error
<Hornet> I made a seperate boot partition on a non raid drive, but df -h can't see it
<Hornet> doesn't help that the ash shell there pisses around with mount points anyway
<Hornet> also for some reason my raid is apparently md/0 not md0
<Hornet> which is a bit shit
<Hornet> (any insights from the peanut gallery much appreciated)
<ali1234> the gox dump also contains a wallet stealer apparently...
<mapps> arhj so annoyed lost my phone
<MooDoo> morning all
<mapps> morning
<mapps> has anyone used a firefox phone|
<MooDoo> can't say I have mapps
<mapps> gutted i lost my phone :( and neither orange nor the police were any use
<mapps> i put it in 'lost mode' on icloud findmyiphone and displayed a message 'this iphone is lost..please call #'' but noones called..hoping someone will..but who knows
<mapps> i dont get how findmyiphones as useful as they make out..it gives you na vague location it says it could be in 5-100 houses on a street here...police said 'nothing much we can do as we cant search random houses' but to 'monitor' it O_o
<MooDoo> :(
<mapps> and you cant monitor it anyway..here's another thing right..cancel my contract so the 3g dies right away..dso of course it cant update its location
<mapps> lol
<Knightwise> morning
<mapps> morning
<Knightwise> hey mapps :) how are you dude
<mapps> im ok..yourself?
<mapps> watcjig my favourite show atm
<mapps> not judge judy for once;p true detective
<Knightwise> haha :)
<Knightwise> i'm browsing around looking for a new laptop for my company
<mapps> cool
<Knightwise> not sure what i need to get
<mapps> what spec you looking for
<MooDoo> what you planning on doing on the laptop?
<Knightwise> will be my main work machine.
<Knightwise> i'll be doing  consultancy at clients.
<Knightwise> so it will probably need to run some vm's
<Knightwise> I took a look at the lenovo yoga 2 pro
<Knightwise> I7, 16 gig, 512ssd , 13 inch , high res screen
<MooDoo> 13 inch screen?  wow that's small
<MartijnVdS> the Ubuntu dev one is good :)
<MartijnVdS> it's 13", has an i7 afaik, and loads of ram
<MartijnVdS> I run VMs on mine all the time
<Knightwise> MartijnVdS: which one is that you are speakin about ?
<Knightwise> MooDoo: It has to be portable , I can always hook up an external display
<MooDoo> Knightwise: cool
<mapps> wow
<mapps> 13 inch pfft
<mapps> i want bigger :D ive got an nc10 but its not my main machine
<MooDoo> mapps: hehe yeah I'm with you on that one :)
<mapps> i quite liked the idea of an imac or macbook whatever theyre claled..but the displays are too small!!
<mapps> not forking out all that money for a tiny display
<Knightwise> Hmmm. Dell Xps13 .. not bad
<Knightwise> MartijnVdS: Pricetag ?
<mapps> YES
<mapps> dell are nice
<mapps> :D
<mapps> but ..13
<mapps> pfft
<mapps> dell xps..17 and now youre talking;)
<Knightwise> Lugging a 15 around is a drag
<MooDoo> Knightwise: it's ok especially in my ogio ubuntu bag, not so hard on the shoulders.
<Knightwise> MooDoo: so which one do you have ? The 17 inch Xps ?
<MartijnVdS> Knightwise: no idea, $employer paid for mine :)
<Knightwise> MartijnVdS: just looking , about 1200 euros ,
<Knightwise> not that expensive
<MartijnVdS> and you KNOW it'll run Ubuntu fine ;)
<MooDoo> Knightwise: no 15' lattitude E6510
<Knightwise> MartijnVdS: thats the important part : it just HAS to work fine.
<Knightwise> I had my fair share of troubles with my lenovo
<Knightwise> hmm. wondering if you can update the ram and the SSD on that one
<MartijnVdS> Knightwise: there's a thing on the bottom to access RAM, I think
<MartijnVdS> Knightwise: SSD will be harder, but is probably msata or similar
<MartijnVdS> [    1.942405] ata1.00: ATA-9: SAMSUNG SSD PM841 mSATA 256GB, DXT43D0Q, max UDMA/133
<MartijnVdS> yup, msata :)
<Knightwise> hmm.. Says this one comes with a touchscreen and everything http://www.dell.com/be/bedrijven/p/xps-13-linux/pd?refid=xps-13-linux&baynote_bnrank=0&baynote_irrank=3&~ck=dellSearch&isredir=true
<MartijnVdS> Knightwise: it does come with a touch screen, but I never use that bit
<MartijnVdS> dirty fingerprints
<Knightwise> Me neither.
<Knightwise> have a touchscreen on my lenovo twist right now..
<Knightwise> never use it.
<Knightwise> great thing with this XPS is that the whole ubuntu thing just works.
<Knightwise> and if the client wants me to run windows I can just install a VM.
<MooDoo> Knightwise: I just multiboot with windows 8.1
<Knightwise> MooDoo: not my thing. If your windows os gets bitrot you have to reinstall/reconfigure both.
<MooDoo> Knightwise: yeah luckily I don't mind reinstalling, most of my important stuff I back to my nas so it's easily transferrable if it does go awry
<DJones> Knightwise: I'd recommend a Lenovo Y510P (i7-4700MQ, 15.6" at 1920*1080, various memory options, dual graphics (intel/nvidia 750M), I got one 2 weeks ago, installed 14.04 + nvidia-prime and everything just worked
<DJones> Knightwise: This is the one I got, Â£799 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lenovo-Y510p-15-6-inch-Notebook-Processor/dp/B00FSBFBD2/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1393588902&sr=8-3&keywords=y510p
<Knightwise> DJones: i had seen this one http://www.engadget.com/products/lenovo/yoga/2-pro/
<DJones> Knightwise: Although the resolution on those is good, I wanted a 15.6" screen, the other difference I went for was the better processor in the y510p
<mapps> ÃÃ»
<Knightwise> I'm going for a 13 inch one. If I need a bigger screen I'll just hook up an external display
<jussi> morning all
<jussi> perhaps I should go down and get breakfast...
<TheOpenSourcerer> This is good - A, what was, $2400 Linux course available (with a certificate if wanted) for free: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/03/2400-introduction-to-linux-course-will-be-free-and-online-this-summer/
<jussi> I swear these full english breakfasts are making me fat...
<mapps> hm
<mapps> caqnt find a good guide for samba
<MartijnVdS> mapps: apt-get install samba; man smb.conf :)
<MartijnVdS> mapps: what do you want to know?
<mapps> i just want to be able to access my windows share on ubuntu
<mapps> and vice versa
<MartijnVdS> mapps: Mounting a windows drive on linux is best done with "cifs", package "cifs-utils", dpkg -L for the man pages
<MartijnVdS> mapps: samba comes with a lot of docs on how to configure it and what the impact of the options are
<mapps> ah ok
<mapps> i thought samba was always talked of for window smounts
<mapps> so i should look into cifs thanks
<dwatkins> it's the same thing, I believe, mapps
<MartijnVdS> mapps: "Samba" is a suite of software, but most famous for being the daemon that lets windows machines brows files on your linux machines
<dwatkins> "Samba provides CIFS file shares"
<MartijnVdS> cifs-utils uses the same protocol, I think even built from the same source, to mount Windows drives on Linux machines
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Day of Awesomeness! :-D
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: Day of Awesomeness?
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, that's what it says.  I'm not going to argue. ;)
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: awesome :)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> morning bigcalm
<mapps> hmm is it possible to edit /etc/motd or /etc/issue.net on ubuntu? I edited /etc/issue.net and uncommented #Banner /etc/issue.net in /etc/ssh/sshd_config but the contents of it arent shown
<MartijnVdS> it should be possible
<MartijnVdS> did you restart sshd?
<mapps> yep
<mapps> wonder why it didnt display then
<bigcalm> One last push of the date poll for this year's RAT: http://doodle.com/h7qqfhfk5gcp86ts
<bigcalm> Though we do have a clear idea of the most popular date
<MartijnVdS> ALL the dates :)
<Laney> that's the same day as the debian uk bbq!
<bigcalm> That's a lot of beerage
<bigcalm> Laney: but nobody uses Debian :)
<MooDoo> bigcalm: yeah they do :p
 * Laney thinks about that for a bit
<bigcalm> La la la, I can't hear you
<MooDoo> bigcalm: debian debian ner ner ner ner ner
<bigcalm> Okay, everybody uses Debian
<MooDoo> bigcalm: just looking #debianuk, that's a support channel I setup and there a huge amoubnt of people there, they are just invisible and being hidden by chanserv ;)
<Laney> you're trying to say that nobody uses debian because they aren't in some random channel you made?
<MooDoo> Laney: I was just being silly :)
<Laney> hmmmmmmmmm
<MooDoo> :p
<dwatkins> no-one seems to be in #debianuk :'(
<MooDoo> dwatkins: I know I was having a giggle, it's something I setup a while ago for a friend who's a debian user
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: sure, "a friend" ;)
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: oh don't you start.....
<MooDoo> ;)
<Laney> it's #debian or #debian-uk on oftc
<Laney> #debian also exists on freenode afaik
<dwatkins> yep, it's quite popular
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning diplo
<diplo> Had a colleague talk to me about her pc on friday, said she had a call from a tech company they use for support but according to that company no one had called them
<diplo> But the person had their credit card info
<MooDoo> ouch
<MooDoo> If a customer manually renews a .co.uk domain here:
<MooDoo> https://customer.heartinternet.co.uk/manage/renewals.cgi
<MooDoo> And the relevant .uk domain is available we will offer to put a pre-order for the .uk domain into their basket.
<MooDoo> If the customer clicks 'No thanks' we should not ask them again for that domain.
<MooDoo> If a customer manually renews a .co.uk domain here:
<MooDoo> https://customer.heartinternet.co.uk/manage/renewals.cgi
<MooDoo> And the relevant .uk domain is available we will offer to put a pre-order for the .uk domain into their basket.
<MooDoo> If the customer clicks 'No thanks' we should not ask them again for that domain.
<MooDoo> oops
<diplo> So I thought, virus or somesthing along those lines but this is the cleanest PC I've seen in years
<MooDoo> strange
<diplo> Can't think what to look for now :)
 * diplo clicks renewals
<MooDoo> i'd be worried where the other party got the CC details.
<diplo> That's what I was, thought some sort of key logger or something
<diplo> But I've found nothing yet!
<diplo> Not one virus/malware / anything - clean PC
<MooDoo> have they spoken to their bank to see if there is any fraudulent issues?
<diplo> They phoned them up and cancelled it straight away, the person who phoned them wanted to charge them Â£299 renewal or something and they said no and he tried anyway
<MooDoo> diplo: format and reinstall, only way to be sure.
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: nuking from orbit would probably work as well :)
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: all this windows stuff sounds alien[s] to me ;)
<MartijnVdS> 8-)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> brobostigon: hello there
<brobostigon> hello MooDoo
<MooDoo> brobostigon: how are you this morning?
<brobostigon> MooDoo: not bad really, a few things on my list for the day, going to wake myself up, then sort them out.
<brobostigon> MooDoo: and you?
<MooDoo> yeah I'm ok thanks :) daughter up all night coughing so little tired but other than that, I'm ok :D
<brobostigon> :)
 * popey has two ill family members here
<brobostigon> :(
<MooDoo> :(
<bigcalm> popey: the cats? :(
 * AlanBell has an ill child too
<MooDoo> my lass kept us up from 12 till about 3am, I get up at 5:30 for work lol
<popey> nah, mum and sam
<bigcalm> :(
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2 :)
<MartijnVdS> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/1g84m0sXpnNCv84GpN2PLZG/the-hitchhiker-s-guide-to-the-galaxy-game-30th-anniversary-edition
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
 * bigcalm squieees
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: I loved this back in the 90s. Thank you for destroying my day :)
<popey> https://rms.sexy/
<popey> *blink*
<MooDoo> wtf?
<MartijnVdS> popey: 8-)
<MooDoo> thanks popey I can never unsee that :(
<bigcalm> Oh my
<bigcalm> !family | popey
<bigcalm> !ohmy | popey
<lubotu3> popey: Please remember that all Ubuntu IRC channels share the same attitude of providing friendly and polite interaction with all users of all ages and cultures. Basically, this means no foul language and no abuse towards others.
<MooDoo> lol
<popey> oi
<MooDoo> that was evil bigcalm
<bigcalm> :P
<bashrc> an rms fan page?
<MooDoo> bashrc: it's a rotating set of images featuring rms
<MooDoo> just the domain is rather funny
<AlanBell> in alluring poses
<MooDoo> ew ew ew
<AlanBell> heh
<MooDoo> AlanBell: get out now :p
<bashrc> nice
<AlanBell> you have to wonder what was going through the mind of the person who put time, money and effort into creating that
<bigcalm> "For a dead person you are talking too much."
<MooDoo> ?
<foobarry> testing tomcat sucks. 5+ mins to shut down and start up again at least
<foobarry> has anyone seen that film gravity? watched last night
<popey> yes
<popey> twice
<bashrc> was it any good?
<popey> i liked it
<hoover> yep, saw it a few months ago
<foobarry> good for an american film, certainly
<hoover> the first 3d movie I ever saw
<foobarry> ahh, that makes sense of a few scenes
<foobarry> "let's make a film that would look cool in 3d"
<MooDoo> but it's sandra bullock in space :(
<foobarry> i would prefer different actors
<hoover> Indeed, not much to be spotted there ;)
<foobarry> george clooney was doing a good impression of buzz lightyear
<davmor2> MooDoo: and your point?
<MooDoo> davmor2: it's sandra bullock in space :S  she can't do sci fi, put her back in a bus or strap a gun to her leg, space is not for her lol
<hoover> I think she's cute
<foobarry> there was a slow undressing from spacesuit scene for those inclined
<MooDoo> to order from the ubuntu shop you have to login to launchpad...woah
<popey> thats always been the case
<MooDoo> popey: yeah never ordered before, just getting myself a t
<resu> t
<MooDoo> resu: t-shirt
<dvrr> how to resolve Tomcat Heap Dump (.hprof file)
<MooDoo> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/371495/analyze-tomcat-heap-in-detail-on-a-production-system
<foobarry> dvrr: you need more google power
<Knightwise> hmz. Dell XPS 13 inch laptop looks purdy damn cool.
<foobarry> getting a dell laptop for work
<foobarry> its not that one though
<Knightwise> hmm .. says here that parts like RAM are not exchangable :(
<davmor2> Knightwise: I think you can if you are happy soldering :)
<daubers> ls
<daubers> le sigh
<davmor2> daubers: thanks I always assumed that ls stood for list not le sigh :D
<MartijnVdS> so that's what that's short for :)
<foobarry> *l*ike *s*ausages
<foobarry> mmm jaffa cakes
<foobarry> woops, just ate half the pack
<foobarry> which gtreamer plugin do i need for rhythombox to convert to mp3?
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: do you know if there is a problem with the ticketing system? I've just created 2 new tickets and they aren't showing. Yet I'm getting email alerts
<MooDoo> foobarry: not sure, but do you have ubuntu-restricted-extras installed, does that have it included, not sure really
<MooDoo> foobarry:  http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1623214
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: they are showing now. That was a concerning few minutes
<popey> foobarry: gstreamer1.0-fluendo-mp3 ?
<popey> oh, convert _to_ mp3?
<popey> didnt know they did encoders.
<MooDoo> I think it's plugins-ugly plugins-good plugins-bad-multiverse just see on that link I added
<popey> ubuntu-restricted-extras is for decoders, not encoders
<MooDoo> ah ok
<foobarry> on 12.04?
<foobarry> something is broke
<foobarry> rhythmbox asks to install a gstreamer plugin but the install button is greyed out
<popey> to encode?
<foobarry> rip a cd to mp3
<popey> gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly-multiverse + lame I expect
<MooDoo> did you have a look at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1623214
<popey> lame will actually do the gruntwork, called by gstreamer
<foobarry> Package gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly-multiverse is not available, but is referred to by another package.
<foobarry> E: Package 'gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly-multiverse' has no installation candidate
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: do you have multiverse enabled?
<popey> ah, discontinued package by the look of it
<popey> gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly + lame will probably be enough then?
<foobarry> pretty sure i have those..
<foobarry> just checking
<popey> yeah, it refers to liblame too
<foobarry> have liblame not lame...
<popey> yeah, you need lame too IIRC
<foobarry> :(
<foobarry> still broken
<foobarry> http://ubuntuone.com/5JCncQ2WgkHS9D1zMVtvps
<foobarry> think i'll find something else
<foobarry> sound juicer cooked the mp3s at 32kps..
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: sound-juicer also uses gstreamer.. but you can set the quality. Also, are you sure it's not VBR?
<foobarry> even so...32kb?
<foobarry> rhythmbox and I have mutual hatred
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: VBR = *variable* bitrate. How are you determining it's 32kbps?
<foobarry> nautilus
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: how large is the file, and how long is it (in time)
<foobarry> 3MB for regular song
<MartijnVdS> sounds like >32kbps
<foobarry> yeah
<foobarry> just asking clementine
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: try "exiftool file.mp3"
<foobarry> clementine thinks 32kb
<foobarry> all other songs are 192 ish
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: there's no single bitrate for a VBR song.
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: can you check with exiftool please?
<foobarry> exiftool not in repos
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: it could very well be that the first frame is silence, which compresses well, so it's the lowest bitrate possible
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: just try it.
<foobarry> exiftool not in repos
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: command-not-found will tell you the package.
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: just type on the command line "exiftool file.mp3" - it'll give you an apt-get command
<foobarry> go it
<foobarry> got
<foobarry> it's guitar music, so it wold compress well in fact
<foobarry> http://pastebin.com/UiEde9wU
<MartijnVdS> hmm no idea
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: which profile did you select in sound-juicer's prefs/
<foobarry> mp3
<foobarry> no custiomsisation allowed
<foobarry> don't worry
<foobarry> gonna give up and do it at home
<foobarry> http://pastebin.com/i7zdYLXQ
<foobarry> asunder did it better, but without id3 lookup
<diddledan> oops
<diddledan> my dns disappeared over the weekend
<diddledan> ho hum, no work-related emails for me ;-)
<diddledan> \o/ for being cut off
<shauno> :|
<shauno> I'm wading through 'soap'(?  appears to be xml that loves the sound of its own voice) because someone wasn't happy that I documented part of a protocol as 'magic'
<davmor2> shauno: should of called it "MagicSmoke" then everything would of worked fine ;)
<shauno> oh it does work fine.  that's why it's magic.  never documented it because it never broke
<shauno> normally I just get to document the stuff that's a little crazy.  like one routine where 25=0
<diddledan> speaking of "magic"... AlanBell, when do I get to name my pi?! :-p
<diddledan> I want to name it "magic-pixies"
<diddledan> then the build log on packages it creates will say something along the lines of "built by magic pixies"
<diddledan> there's nothing better than a troll that keeps trolling :-D
<shauno> bacon?
<diddledan> mmm, bacon
<shauno> I made pancakes last night.  turns out I'm not very good at it
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> I wouldn't have a clue how to do such a thing
<diddledan> egg?
<diddledan> milk?
<diddledan> flour?
<shauno> cup flour, cup milk, one egg
<shauno> put in pan, panic until edible, eat before anyone sees how bad it looks
<diddledan> lmao
<popey> my kids love pancakes
<shauno> I used to love helping mum.  from my experiences last night, I'm not sure I was as much help as I thought I was
<popey> pan should be quite hot. i use a brush to cover the pan with oil, and a soup ladel to spoon the mixture in
<shauno> this is true of many things, actually.  the more I try to look after a theoretically adult me, the more I'm amazed at how mum managed 5 of us
<diddledan> I'm assuming ladel-hosen is when you use a spoon and a pipe to repeatedly beat and squirt water on a german?
<shauno> dan, I believe that's only legal in berwick
<diddledan> I'd be good as a CIA dude
<diddledan> wacky punishment > simulating drowning
<diddledan> plus it would look better when the videos leak
<diddledan> people would be incredulous at the crazyness of it rather than the inhumanity
<shauno> I think you talk too much for that to be a valid career choice
<diddledan> I'm not sure talking is ever an issue. it's talking about things that people actually believe
<diddledan> and if my wacky theory holds then people will think I'm a nutjob instead of a bona fide goverment employee
<diddledan> it obviously helps that I am in fact an actual nutjob
<SuperMatt> bigcalm: please don't message me about RS stuff >.<
<SuperMatt> but no, I don't think so
<SuperMatt> I didn't get any alerts
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: hehe, sorry. I shall say no more :P
<bigcalm> Supernoodles for tea - wooooooooooo
<diddledan> bigcalm: living the high-life, eh?
<Laney> sounds like the life
<daftykins> chap i know spilt water on his laptop today
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/1lbtbj9aoqeprgx/IMG-20140310-WA0000.jpg
<daftykins> this thing will be hell to work on
<diddledan> daftykins: \o/
<diddledan> that looks compact
<diddledan> it's got an ssd by the looks?
<diddledan> and a teeny weeny fan
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> core 2 duo sony VAIO TT with a 120GB samsung SSD, 4GB RAM
<daftykins> few years on it now
 * diddledan sniggers, you said TT
<diddledan> first job then, replace that sata ssd with a bigger one :-p
<daftykins> nope
<diddledan> oh yeah, make it work is probably more important
<daftykins> half the keyboard's dead, no viable replacements
<daftykins> so new Lenovo ordered already
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> it's a doorstop then?
<daftykins> this thing's too old to put money into really
<daftykins> well i have the lower panel in front of me right now
<daftykins> just disconnected that blue plastic pull-tab ribbon
<daftykins> i'm tempted to try taking the keyboard apart as much as possible and dry/clean it further
<daftykins> probably dead already though
<daftykins> he ran it all day and overnight to 'dry it out' ;_;
 * diddledan spots the nice man-trays full of man-things (the green boxes top left)
<diddledan> yeah, that was probably a bad idea
<daftykins> heh yeah his basement 'work room'
<daftykins> the rest of the machine is fine, just i don't really have a use for it and neither does he
<mapps> hmm why wont my machine boot up automatically
<mapps> grub just sits there
<jpds> mapps: That's a sign that it failed to shutdown correctly.
<mapps> hmm..but i reboot and up comes the grub menu every time and it just sits and waits never ever ever boots up without a key press
<mapps> i checked /etc/default/grub and timeout set to 10
<SuperMatt> bigcalm: thanks man, you really have no idea how little time I can spend on here now
<diddledan> that's an annoying feature tbh
<diddledan> if it failed to shut down properly then ofc I want it to stop mid-boot so I have to drive to the datacentre and fix it
<ball> diddledan: If it's in a datacentre, doesn't it have LOM?
<diddledan> ball: no, my boss is cheap
<ball> diddledan: Penny wise and pound foolish?
<diddledan> bingo
<diddledan> LOM would be awesome
<diddledan> but still a manual intervention on an automatic process is annoying
<diddledan> it should only stop booting if it can't complete safely
<directhex> GRUB_RECORDFAIL_TIMEOUT=10
<directhex> that value is how many seconds to wait if it thinks boot failed. default is infinite
<MooDoo> evening all
<ball> Good afternoon MooDoo
<MooDoo> :)
<mapps> hm
<mapps> directhex,  i dont see that anywhere
<mapps> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7069800/
<directhex> https://thelastmaimou.wordpress.com/2013/11/11/this-grub-does-not-start-in-ubuntu/
<mapps> thanks
<mapps> added it now lts see
<mapps> wrked
<mapps> thanks directhex
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: Riddling needs more levels :)
<mapps> i disabled root for ssh - figured best idea..no? get loads of people trying to gain access in auth.log to user root
<mapps>  and it didnt take affect until i rebooted..even tho i restarted sshd
 * DJones wonders why Rambo II is on the Syfy channel
<mapps> shouldnt just restarting have been enough
<aquarius> MartijnVdS, sorry :) There may be a Riddling 2 at some point...
<ball> Happy Monday.
<diddledan> mapps: yeah afaiui restarting just ssh should be enough
<mapps> yea thats what i thought hmm weird
<diddledan> one thing that does annoy me on more recent ubuntu's (server) is the networking service tells you that it doesn't do what you expect anymore
<diddledan> when hitting it with the "restart" flag
<diddledan> in older ubuntus /etc/init.d/networking restart did just that and everything was great, but now it doesn't?
<diddledan> it's not a case of /etc/init.d/networking vs "service networking" either
<diddledan> it just flat out tells you that it isn't what you want and that you should reboot instead
<diddledan> I don't like server distros insisting that I reboot for everything. I dislike it on desktop, too.
<diddledan> eg. on desktop, why should I reboot to apply an X11 fix?!
<diddledan> surely just restarting lightdm would be enough, no?
<diddledan> one of the reasons I used to love linux was that I didn't have to reboot after every patch. seems ubuntu, and probably other distros are trying very hard to be "just like the redmond os"
<mapps> yea
<mapps> thats the thing diddledan  i found that
<diddledan> to the point of replicating the bad experiences of that redmond os
<mapps> if i lose connection i cant restart my networking you HAVE to restart?
<mapps> is there no workaround like ifconfig wlan0 down or whatever and forcing it?
<mapps> i couldnt see how;/
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> didnt come back this time
#ubuntu-uk 2014-03-11
<diddledan> not bad for a mass-appeal science programme. bang goes the theory on the iplayer from today
<diddledan> today they were investigating electricity/the national grid
<mapps> ah yea
<mapps> i saw some of that earlier
<mapps> hmm
<WhoWhat> @find Dragonwriter
<mapps> ;]
<MooDoo> morning all
<mapps> morning MooDoo
<MartijnVdS> jnick_tait: new nickname? :)
<jnick_tait> MartijnVdS, same as it ever was
<MartijnVdS> jnick_tait: oh you're not JamesTait?
<jnick_tait> MartijnVdS, now this is going to be as confusing for you as it was for JamesTait and I... my first name is James but I don't use it at all (other than in my IRC nick)... I'm Nick Tait
 * MooDoo did have a head, it's just exploded.
<mapps> can someone lend me a hand..if i make a startup script for shoutcast - shoutcast located in /home/shoutcast/shoutcast - running 2 cmds sc_serv sc_serv.conf and sc_trans sc_trans.conf ----- when i run the command it's saying unable to open log directory - the log dir is there though
<MooDoo> put your script into pastebin so people can have a look at it.
<MartijnVdS> mapps: is it owned by the right user?
<MartijnVdS> mapps: and/or writable by them?
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> im not sure? i did update-rc.d shoutcast.sh defaults
<mapps> so what perms would i need on the logs ? what would the script be run as
<MartijnVdS> mapps: that all depends -- it might drop down to non-root itself (as specified in config file), or it might be started as a specific user by the init script
<MartijnVdS> or something else completely
<mapps> the init script i just wrote the command to launch shoutcast
<mapps> so im a bit confused :Z
<MartijnVdS> strace it, check if it drops privs, then check the real error code when it tries to open the log dir -- also check if that log dir is the dir you think it should be
<MartijnVdS> strace has saved me SO often
<mapps> il have to google it..looks comolicated:)
<mapps> complicated
<MartijnVdS> mapps: strace -f -o outputfile THE_COMMAND
<MartijnVdS> then check "outputfile" for things like "uid", and "open" etc.
<MartijnVdS> it's just a dump of all the system calls the program does
<mapps> 2497  stat64("logs/sc_serv.log", 0xbfad7870) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
<mapps> hm
<MartijnVdS> that's fine -- it's just checking if it's there
<MartijnVdS> doesn't mean it can't open it :)
<MartijnVdS> but it looks like the path is relative -- you might have to specify an absolute path
<mapps> not sure how i can shoutcast just looks for those files when it starts
<MartijnVdS> mapps: in the config file, probably?
<MartijnVdS> mapps: command line options, maybe?
<MartijnVdS> what's the current working directory? does it start fine if you do it manually (outside the init script)
<mapps> if i run the command manually from shoutcast dir it works fine..but my scripts located elsewhere so it fails
<mapps> so i probably do need to do like you said?
<mapps> specify full path to the logs
<MartijnVdS> mapps: you need to "cd" to the right directory first
<MartijnVdS> also, make sure you don't run it as root. Running daemons as root is bad practice these days
<mapps> duh thanks it was as easy as cd dir and then it's all fixed
<mapps> silly me
<mapps> and yea i should switch to user shoutcast to run it..didnt even think about it i manually start it as shoutcast
<MartijnVdS> mapps: you can use start-stop-daemon for that, or just tell it which user to run as in an upstart script
<MartijnVdS> upstart scripts++
<mapps> still need to read about upstart scripts;)
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning diplo
<mapps> morning guys
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Organize Your Home Office Day! :-D
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, this is me.  jnick_tait is a mere imposter. ;)
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, we found out about this unfortunate duplication of names when I received a plane ticket for a trip to Hungary three days later.  Imagine my surprise!
<MooDoo> morning JamesTait
<bashrc> I'm still on polar bear day
<JamesTait> MooDoo, o/
<mapps> ;]
<DJones> Wooo-hooo linkedin spam in the mailbox today
<MooDoo> that's why I closed my linkedin account
<DJones> MooDoo: The email address the spam is coming to has never been given to linkedin
<DJones> I don't think I've ever been on the website
<MooDoo> sigh eh!
<DJones> Yep
<bashrc> it must have had a From address
<DJones> It did, it was from linkedin
<bashrc> you could add a procmail rule and send it to /dev/null
<DJones> Its just going to a gmail account & ends up in the junk folder anyway
<mapps> ive never used it
<bashrc> I did have a phase a couple of months ago where I tried using LinkedIn more regularly.  Never got any replies or conversations though, so gave up
<MartijnVdS> people only use linkedin when they need a job
<MartijnVdS> ime
<foobarry> +1
<foobarry> it's interesting when i see dormant accounts suddenly show signs of activity, i know they are looking to leave the company
<bashrc> yes that's true
<foobarry> a bit like sherlock and his rats
<diplo> My boss followed me, I wish I hadn't accepted now :)
<foobarry> just delete him now
<foobarry> its better to accept and delete after
<foobarry> with those awkward situations
<diplo> Especially as I'm actively looking for a job now
<diplo> :)
<foobarry> because people never notice you've removed them
<MartijnVdS> diplo: you're saying this in a publicly logged place
 * foobarry is hiring a scientific programmer. 
<diplo> They are not clever enough to know this MartijnVdS
<diplo> + not knowing my nick
<diplo> :)
<foobarry> not even the NSA read the whole internet
<diplo> and tbh I don't really care :)
 * diplo wants to go back to full time sysadmin tbh
<foobarry> he'll know when he gets a reference request
<diplo> Yep
<MooDoo> where you live diplo?
<diplo> Near Bristol
<diplo> Well Bath
<MooDoo> ah ok
<diplo> But most people know where Bristol is :)
<foobarry> lot of teenagers don't know where the bath is
<MooDoo> yesh I know was going to show you this - http://www.heartinternet.co.uk/careers but it is a long way away lol
<diplo> heh
<diplo> Looks a great job!
<foobarry> just remembered my wife slipped a choc brownie in my pocket
<diplo> If I didn't have kids I've debated moving before
<foobarry> i know someone who commutes from bath->london 3 days a week
<diplo> yeah my friend does, well twice a week
<diplo> His boss comes from the west coast of wales to london!
<diplo> And he drives!
<foobarry> wow
<diplo> Nutter
<foobarry> :-\
<foobarry> stays for the week?
<diplo> My friend does, his boss doesn't
<foobarry> madness
<foobarry> no job is worth that
<diplo> A guy I worked with at my last job drove from Birmingham to Bath everyday for about 4 years
<diplo> EVERY day
<diplo> He liked it, said it calmed him down after work and he didn't have to spend as much time with his wife
<diplo> :)
<foobarry> he's prob produced more pollution and co2 on just that alone than i'll produce in my life
<diplo> I did bring that up
<foobarry> marry in haste, repent at leisure
<diplo> He's in his mid to late 50's i think
<diplo> So too late for him :P
<foobarry> gonna teach my son to be the person that a nice lady would want to marry
<directhex> or a nice man!
<MooDoo> foobarry: snap, funny I was discussing this with the wife last night :)
<foobarry> my son is a bit obsessed with mario atm
<foobarry> he doesn't play the wii much (1hr on sat morning doing a bit of wii bowling or mario kart), but he spends much more talking about it
<MooDoo> minecraft here
<foobarry> i fear he is a copy of myself
<dwatkins> My nephew did that for a while, foobarry - he would watch playthrough videos of Mario and he knew all the secret passages
<dwatkins> He's randomly start talking about them at the dining table, which was great fun.
<MooDoo> I'm getting a go pro video camera as my kids are growing up far too fast.
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> brobostigon: how are you matey
<brobostigon> didnt sleep very well, so tired and half a daze. and you?
<foobarry> go pro seem to aggressively market their product as a brandname everyone refers to like hoover, ipod
<foobarry> dwatkins: is your nephew diagnosed aspie at all?
<foobarry> my son exhibits certain traits but not others, he could be just a keen INTJ mathmo type like his dad
<diplo> popey: Saw you mention syncthing on G+ - how are you getting on with it ?
<foobarry> bob crow, enemy of london commuters has died
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> morning bigcalm
<bashrc> who was bob crow?
<bigcalm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Crow
<bashrc> ah, I think I vaguely remember his name being mentioned somewhere
<bashrc> probably we need more unions, and especially more cyberuinions
<foobarry> https://twitter.com/daily_politics/status/435044586524663808/photo/1
<foobarry> bashrc: ^^
<MartijnVdS> bashrc: as long as they don't end up as stupid as the US unions
<foobarry> he had a Â£145k salary and lived in a council house
<bashrc> eesh
<bashrc> as with politicians, I think union bosses should be paid the same as the average member
<bashrc> if their salaries were linked to average earnings then I think we'd see better politics
<foobarry> i'm sad for his family, i'm not sad for the pointless and dispruptive strikes jsut to get more money for train monkeys
<bigcalm> !politics
<lubotu3> Please take political discussion to ##politics-uk. Thank you!
<bigcalm> ;)
<foobarry> meow
<MooDoo> anyone used a go pro hero3+ ?
<davmor2> Morning all
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<bashrc> morning davmor2
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<bashrc> anyone ever tried using GPG from within Mutt?
<MartijnVdS> bashrc: used it for ages
<bashrc> are there any recommended key combinations?  do I need to install gpg.rc ?
<bashrc> (using mutt-patched)
<MartijnVdS> bashrc: gpg.rc? what's that?
<MartijnVdS> I just had a ~/.gnupg and told mutt to sign outgoing mail with my key id
<MartijnVdS> that was all
<bashrc> what are the muttrc commands for that?
<bashrc> Ideally I'd like to set up a key combination to import public keys sent via email
<MartijnVdS> bashrc: that already exists I think, by default
<MartijnVdS> bashrc: just go to the attachment and press enter I think?
<bashrc> hmm. I don't think so
<bashrc> but maybe there is some muttrc command to do it
<MartijnVdS> bashrc: it's probably a mailcap thing then, based on mime type
<MartijnVdS> bashrc: http://www.mutt.org/doc/manual/manual-6.html#commands
<bashrc> ah
<MartijnVdS> bashrc: pgp_autosign
<bashrc> I think autosign is only for outgoing mail
<MartijnVdS> bashrc: it is, and you want tat.
<MartijnVdS> bashrc: it'll automatically (try to) decrypt incoming mail when you open it
<bashrc> Ideally I'd like something such as an autoimport for GPG public keys
<MartijnVdS> that's a ~/.gnupg/ config setting, to retrieve unknown keys. But that makes your keyring HUGE, FAST
<bashrc> maybe just a mutt key combination then to make importing easy
<MartijnVdS> bashrc: Make a macro that does something like "| gpg --import"
<bashrc> indeed
<foobarry> bigcalm: i like that when you go to ##politics-uk it is just brobostigon sitting in the corner reading a book
<bashrc> :)
<brobostigon> yes, it has been quiet for a while.
<bashrc> (tumbleweeds roll by)
<foobarry> i heard someone call dogecoin "doje coin"
<MooDoo> bashrc: tumbleweed.popey.com
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: that's how you pronounce "Doge", especially if you mean the ruler of Venice kind ;)
<foobarry> soundtrack to amelie is the best working music
<foobarry> MartijnVdS: but the dog kind
<bashrc> such pronounciation. wow
<MartijnVdS> very venice
<foobarry> why i am getting so many job applications from norway lately
<foobarry> something i should know?
<foobarry> is norway closing down?
<MartijnVdS> Norway is being discontinued.
<foobarry> are they going to opensource it?
<foobarry> release the code before you shut !
<foobarry> o365 broke for ipv6 users for 2 days
<foobarry> "As a work-around to the Outlook client, customers could disable IPV6 on their local machines and try re-establishing connection. "
<foobarry> 2.5 days.
<TwistedLucidity> And productivity increased?
<foobarry> not everyone has ipv4 and ipv6.
<TwistedLucidity> Tell me, can o365 handles datetimes? As in, does it know what "2014/01/02 03:04:05 +0100" is or (like Excel) does it just barf?
<foobarry> we have o365 but without the office bit LOL
<BigRedS_> what's the rest of it?
<foobarry> email
<foobarry> which works poorly
<foobarry> its basically hotmail but worse
<BigRedS_> oh, I did sign up for a outlook.com account but I've not actually started using it yet
<BigRedS_> what does it get wrong?
<foobarry> yeah, i bagged the best names x 10 and then promptly forgot
<foobarry> imap is a massive fail, shared folders massive fail, activesync requires full admin rights on your phone, service breaks *a lot*, reliance upon onsite servers here too(our problem, but double the risk)
<foobarry> basically i now have a worse service and the calendar is afwul and won't export to gmail either
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: but if you only used Outlook! It would work!
<foobarry> also i forwarded a meeting invitation  message the other day to someone (just the plain text) and for some reason it emailed the oringinal 40 recipients with my disparaging remarks
<foobarry> outlook ...non e posibile
<foobarry> haven't used the windows since early millenium
<foobarry> except for vsphere client
<BigRedS_> the imap doesn't work? I'm not interested in activesync or pretending it's google
<foobarry> its really faily
<BigRedS_> part of the point was to see if being more pretty than Google translated a less crap UX
<foobarry> every other message i send via TB, TB cannot save it in sent folder
<BigRedS_> as in the service goes down a lot?
<foobarry> the imap implemenetation is so buggy its almost useless
<foobarry> also take 30s+ to send a message
<foobarry> often times out with error
<BigRedS_> that's SMTP, though
<foobarry> yes, i've never seen it like that before
<foobarry> also, cannot do shared folders
<foobarry> have to set up multiple accounts
<foobarry> its just horrid
<foobarry> if you are exclusively webmail , you'll notice a few features that are missing
<foobarry> but it will generally work if you are happy with that
<BigRedS_> I'm mostly interested in one imap mailbox
<BigRedS_> with occasional webmail and a calendar
<foobarry> i've never had imap problems ever...until o365
<foobarry> you won't get the calendar into TB
<BigRedS_> and much as I'd *like* my calendar on my desktop that's not really something that fits with 21st century linux desktop
<foobarry> or you might for a week or so
<foobarry> there is a plugin
<BigRedS_> I don't use TB and there's nothing much else that does iCal apart from the less good Evolution
<foobarry> but its sucky
<foobarry> what will you use for imap? mutt?
<BigRedS_> claws
<foobarry> try it. but you will get the same sucky sent folder problem
<BigRedS_> well, I use TB sometimes and claws most of the time. But I've mostly given up on doing calendar-on-the-desktop because that's even worse than mail-on-the-desktop these days
<davmor2> BigRedS_: claws has a calendar plugin
<davmor2> BigRedS_: it's not pretty but it works
<BigRedS_> davmor2: yeah, but it can't do "show me the next X weeks" so for the second half of a month it's pretty clunky
<foobarry> down to my last 10 cvs
<foobarry> man this is tiring
<davmor2> BigRedS_: I did say it's not pretty
<BigRedS_> davmor2: I'm not arguing :)
<foobarry> the o365 webcalendar sucks vs gmail one
<foobarry> you want to drag a selection and add an appt between 3-5
<foobarry> but no.
<davmor2> BigRedS_: and iirc you just get day week month and year views
<foobarry> you have to click new appt and type it in
<BigRedS_> davmor2: is that the outlook one that does that?
<BigRedS_> bah, I can't remember the email address *or* the password for this outlook account
<davmor2> BigRedS_: ah no sorry I didn't see outlook in there
<BigRedS> davmor2: ah yeah, I know the claws one only does those views
<BigRedS> tbird does more, including "the next few weeks" but it's also got a weird obsession with HTML mail and line wrapping
<foobarry> http://www.webupd8.org/2014/03/automate-tasks-in-linux-using-actionaz.html
<foobarry> nice
<mapps> boo had to turn my pc off
<mapps> dont wanna leave it on while im not here;/
<foobarry> where you going?
<mapps> just going back to my dads
<foobarry> at least you can apt-get latest kernels
<mapps> argh
<mapps> just noticed my passport form my counter signature
<mapps> has put shes known me 5 years..and shes a teacher etc
<mapps> but not put how
<mapps> bollocks
<mapps> oops sorry my language
<dramen> Can anyone please help me to fix my grep command?
<mapps> fix it? whats up
<dramen> I type grep ch->spl[4] * and basically its stuck ch->spl[4] infront of every search and spams the heck out of me :/
<dramen> [:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:act_wiz.c:           if ( vch->timer > 0 ) <-- that for example but all over my code
<MartijnVdS> dramen: the '>' is special in shell, you'll have to escape it. I think [ and ] as well
<MartijnVdS> dramen: either put the thing you're searchgin for in 'single quotes' or prefix the \"offenders\" with \backslashes
<dramen> Trouble is how do i escape it :(
<bigcalm> Back from a house viewing that we instantly want to buy
<bigcalm> Bugger
<foobarry> great
<foobarry> no?
<bigcalm> We've only viewed 3 houses so far
<mapps> thats good isnt it
<bigcalm> Another 2 to view this week
<mapps> less hassle
<bigcalm> Sure. But it means that we might actually be moving soon
<mapps> is it warm enough for shorts outside
<foobarry> no
<mapps> or will i look like a loon hmm
<mapps> oh
<foobarry> very no
<mapps> just sunny then?
<foobarry> not even that
<bigcalm> It's very sunny and warm in TF10. But I wouldn't go out in short
<bigcalm> s
<MartijnVdS> it's 15ish degrees here
<MartijnVdS> and the sun is out!
<bigcalm> One negative is that the house doesn't have virginmedia, but the street does
<MartijnVdS> weird
<bigcalm> So it'd mean digging up the driveway
<MartijnVdS> or luddite owners?
<bigcalm> Not weird. The owners didn't want it when it was on offer
<bigcalm> They didn't want the drive way dug up
<bigcalm> They get 12mb with ADSL. I wonder if it'll be enough for me
<bigcalm> I'm used to 60mb though...
<mapps> gah
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: my neighbor's house is for sale. It has fibre ;)
<mapps> only got 15ins till i gotta go
<mapps> train at 14;15 first class :DDDD free food..yessssss
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: I'm guessing it'll be a little outside the area we're looking ;)
<foobarry> the streets got dug up for telewest many years ago
<mapps> would they have to dig the drive up bigcalm ? i thought thats what they did when we got NTL
<mapps> yea
<foobarry> or cable london in my area
<mapps> if a street doesnt have it it wont get it now i think..the dont do new areas..but if a street has it and your property dont its diff
<foobarry> shonky quality
<mapps> we were in the NTL region
<mapps> blueyonder was north wasnt it?
<mapps> where did telewest cover
<foobarry> there's water pipes etc gonig to the house, i'm sure they can squeeze a small fibre tube
<foobarry> they never dug up our front garden
<mapps> oh
<mapps> i thought they did for us
<mapps> cant remember though was like 15 years ago?
<foobarry> they dug the road but not the drive/graden
<mapps> ive got a strange feeling they dug our front garden up
<MartijnVdS> mapps: good thing they didn't find the bodies :)
<mapps> :D
<mapps> urgh i had like 3 hours sleep
<foobarry> they are in the back
<mapps> now its a 30min walk
<mapps> 1hr30 train then underground then a wait for a lift
<MartijnVdS> you're going on a train to end up on a lift?!
<foobarry> nice https://github.com/np1/mps-youtube
<mapps> wait for a lift home;p
<mapps> a drive then
<mapps> heh
<mapps> back in a bit!
<dramen> [13:05] <MartijnVdS> dramen: the '>' is special in shell, you'll have to escape it. I think [ and ] as well <-- id ont get how to escape this :(
<MartijnVdS> dramen: read my next line :)
<MartijnVdS> dramen: either put the entire thing in quotes ('like this') or put a "\" before every special character (like-\>this)
<dramen> I understand that for further greps to find the special characters the problem is atm is i type grep spell * i still get the spl[4]:act_wiz.c problem
<dramen> This is what i mean (apologies for the spam)
<dramen>    spell_remove_curse( skill_lookup( "remove curse" ), ch->level, ch, ch ); spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4]:spl[4
<bigcalm> o.O
<foobarry> did you reset your terminal
<foobarry> open a new one
<dramen> I rebooted the entire machine >.<
<foobarry> do a pastebin of the entire stuff you are typing in
<foobarry> from a fresh terminal
<dramen> Fresh terminal and i type this
<dramen> grep spell *
<foobarry> paste it into pastbin
<dramen> Thats all i am typing
<foobarry> ls
<foobarry> what's in the dir
<dramen> oooo now we are getting somewhere
<dramen>  [           act_move.c  board.h      comm.c   desc_map.c  interp.c     magic.c    obj        spl[4] [4]         act_obj.c   changes.c    const.c  fight.c     kav_fight.c  Makefile   olc.c      startup [4}         act_wiz.c   clan.c       core.c   godwars     kav_info.c   merc.h     rot_wiz.c  string.c act_comm.c  bit.c       clan.c.save  db.c     handler.c   kav_wiz.c    more.c     save.c     update.c act_info.c  board.c     colordef
<foobarry> yeah
<foobarry> wanna remove those
<dramen> will do and let you know what happens, ty foobarry :)
<foobarry> np
<foobarry> be careful removing them
<foobarry> maybe from a gui
<dramen> Its not was all me, thank-you SO much fooBarry!
<dramen> All fixed now and really appreciate it as it was driving me crazy!
<foobarry> no prob. just need to be methodical about what is happening, usually fixes the issue
<dramen> Or not be stupid in the first place ;)
<MartijnVdS> that helps :P
<dramen> hee hee but at least i have learnt something now and i knwo how to avoid the problem in the firs tplace and how to repair it in the second place if i do mess up :) thanks guys
<bigcalm> Anybody here got BT Infinity?
<davmor2> bigcalm: why you thinking about changing ?
<BigRedS> bigcalm: I do
<bigcalm> davmor2: not if I can help it. I want to stick with VM. But the house we looked at today doesn't have VM to the house (though it is in the street)
<bigcalm> BigRedS: what's your impression of it? Do you have your TV via BT as well?
<davmor2> if it is in the street then you would just need to pay the moving fee of how ever much iirc and all your numbers etc move with you :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: it would mean having the drive dug up as well
<BigRedS> bigcalm: seems pretty good
<BigRedS> nah, no telly
<BigRedS> we've had no issues since we got it but I can't remember when that was
<davmor2> bigcalm: yeah but that is at there cost :)
<bigcalm> I need to be online instantly. I guess my phone would make do until whatever is in place
<bigcalm> By moving, we will lose our mates rates, so looking at what else is out there is wise
<bigcalm> davmor2: s/there/their/ ?
<davmor2> bigcalm: you understood what I meant :P
<bigcalm> Are you sure about that? I haven't found their documentation for it yet. Closest I've come is http://community.virginmedia.com/t5/Up-to-30Mb-Setup-Equipment/Want-Cable-been-told-it-s-not-available-We-might-be-able-to-help/td-p/20585 - but all of the links are dead
<directhex> i'm on infinity
<bigcalm> What speeds are you getting?
<directhex> um... 76/16 or thereabouts
<bigcalm> Noticed your IP change much?
<directhex> no
<bigcalm> (I'm assuming that it's dynamic allocation)
<bigcalm> I wonder which major ISP will roll out IPv6 1st
<directhex> Testing download speed........................................
<directhex> Download: 67.39 Mbit/s
<directhex> Testing upload speed..................................................
<directhex> Upload: 17.47 Mbit/s
<bigcalm> Nice
<davmor2> bigcalm: http://store.virginmedia.com/special-offers/Movers.html?buspart=DM_236
<bigcalm> davmor2: ta, but it doesn't say anything about digging up driveways :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: get in touch with them and see then :P
<bigcalm> I want to get back to our IFA and see what mortgage we can get.
<bigcalm> Getting restless now
<davmor2> In my head right now is a song the words oooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhh-lllllllllaaaaaaaaa
<davmor2> MooDoo, MartijnVdS: The chances of anything coming from mars......
<philwyett> bigcalm: If you switch to fibre with someone like BT. You would most likely get fibre to the cabinet and the connection brought in on the normal phone. Fibre with out the digging up of your drive.
<bigcalm> philwyett: indeed
<root> hy
<root> hello
<foobarry> davmor2: drinking in LA?
<davmor2> foobarry: no I'm in wolverhampton
<foobarry> davmor2> In my head right now is a song the words oooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhh-lllllllllaaaaaaaaa
<davmor2> foobarry: no the other line in there is "The chances of anything coming from mars are a million to one they said"
<foobarry>  bran van 3000 - Drinkin in LA
<foobarry> now playing on mps-youtube
<DJones> Heh, have to laugh at this http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-26525149
<mapps> yo
<mapps> im back
<mapps> now i have the choice of FTC or Virgin:D
<mapps> back at home 6mbit crappy dsl only..so unfair
 * zenpho waves hi
<Sindbad> Hi anyone knows how I can order a system76 laptop in UK?
<zenpho> alas i don't sorry Sindbad
<zenpho> someone else might i hope
<daftykins> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2140017
<daftykins> "System76 in UK"
<daftykins> DJones: makes you wonder doesn't it ;)
<sebsebseb>  
 * zenpho gotta go - g'night all!
#ubuntu-uk 2014-03-12
<MooDoo> hello all
 * jussi waves to MooDoo here also  :D
<MooDoo> :D
<mapps> hey
<MooDoo> howdy mapps
<jussi> morning mapps
<jussi> ahh those mornings that you need to read everything twice...
<jussi> I just read " Certificate III in Tourism (Retail Travel Sales)" as " Certificate III in Terrorism (Retail Travel Sales)" - too much travelling for me? :P
<nigelb> jussi: hahaha
<nigelb> Or too much of reading the newspaper to be honest :\
<jussi> nigelb: fortunately I dont read newspapers  :)
<nigelb> :)
<mapps> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qoa2CEqFGJY&feature=em-uploademail
<mapps> now that was nerve racking
<mapps> almost gave me a heart attack :)
<jussi> mapps: damn... I can imagine
<mapps> you see the end?
<mapps> won by very little
<jussi> mapps: just watched it
<mapps> yea
<jussi> and also, if you have a  fall... OUCH
<mapps> yes
<mapps> in the grand national loads fall
<mapps> every time
<mapps> there's been animal rights people saying they shoud change the course
<mapps> as it's too dangerous for the horses
<mapps> sometimes they have to put them down depending on what happens
<jussi> interesting - nice to see valve releasing some sources into the community: https://github.com/ValveSoftware/ToGL
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<mapps> moning
<mapps> morning
<brobostigon> morning mapps
<mapps> sup pal
<brobostigon> busy day, gathering energy, setting up my pebble to monitor what i do today.
<mapps> cool
<mapps> pebble 2.0?
<MooDoo> I got myself a gopro yesterday :D
<mapps> nice for what MooDoo
<brobostigon> pebble fw 2.0.1, android app 2.0.13
<mapps> sending my passport off today
<mapps> Praha in MAY IBIZA AUGUST
<MooDoo> mapps: videoing the kids, on the beach, in the pool, make some of my own videos, it's small it's portable and looking at the case it's in, it's fracking indestructable ;)
<mapps> :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
<mapps> ahhh cool
<mapps> i thought gopros are worn on helmets by skydivers was why i asked
<MooDoo> yes they can be, or on motorbikes [has one] or on skateboard, just a small handy video camera you can use any where, does up to 4k video
<mapps> aha
<mapps> how do you hook it to the helmets?
<mapps> so its the same camera?
<MooDoo> it comes with mounting kit and you can get sucker kits....I'm getting a suction cup system so I can mount it on my tank.
<mapps> ahh nice
<mapps> and thats enough to keep it in place when skydiving?
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: your *tank*?
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: motorbike tank
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: well there are proper helmet systems you can get, but I don't need them.
<mapps> not sure how im gonna deal with money for ibiza
<mapps> its 10euros a drink in clubs 200 euros for vodka
<mapps> dnt wanna carry loadsa cash
<mapps> but cards rape you abroad?
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: ah, I thought you were driving around in a military vehicle maybe ;)
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: that would be cool :D
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: nah cards are fine abroad usually
<MartijnVdS> uh
<MartijnVdS> mapps: ^
<mapps> no charges?
<mapps> or maybe bad exchange rate?
<mapps> i used my card on Holland but cant remember what exchange rate was
<mapps> ad i drew out cash
<MartijnVdS> mapps: I don't get charges in Europe
<mapps> nice
<mapps> but
<mapps> do u get worse exchange rate?
<MartijnVdS> I get an OK exchange rate. Not the best, not the worst.
<mapps> yea
<MartijnVdS> also, my account is in Euros, which helps :)
<mapps> and what if you used in shop
<MartijnVdS> mapps: works fine these days, everyone's on chip&pin, goes through your own bank wrt. exchange rates
<mapps> ya for sure
<mapps> my ac is gbp
<mapps> MartijnVdS how near ed light is you?
<mapps> red
<mapps> i know its normal for you but i still find it so odd
<MartijnVdS> mapps: no idea :)
<MartijnVdS> mapps: a km? 2?
<mapps> its so strange there hey
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy No Smoking Day! :-D
<mapps> hey james_w
<mapps> JamesTait
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> morning
<mapps> morning
<MooDoo> morning MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> moo
<MooDoo> morning mapps
<foobarry> anyone read knuth (art of computer programming?)
 * davmor2 whispers MooDoo in a haunting manner and disappears 
<bashrc> I've read bits of knuth
<MooDoo> davmor2: WTF was that?
 * foobarry is listening to the Cure today
<foobarry> music from your teens
<foobarry> litening to concert recordings made in-crowd. why do people talk all the way through songs?
<foobarry> people in the crowd
<shauno_> MartijnVdS: random question; a city (nl) abbreviated to 'dcm' .. any guesses?
<MartijnVdS> shauno_: not really?
<shauno_> fair enough.  that's what I came to too :/
<shauno_> trying to decipher hostnames.  I have uklon, frpar, noosl, demuc, indel ... and nldcm.  running out of guesses on the last one
<daubers> non local dichloromethane?
<MartijnVdS> ah, it's probably a "data centre" in the "m" iddle of the country, or in a place with "m" :)
<shauno_> even tried trolling their jobs listings, I don't see anything that comes close
<awilkins> I hate stupid server naming conventions
<awilkins> Just name them things you can pronounce and remember and have a directory
<diplo> awilkins: +1 - I changed them at my last place to where they were and what they were
<diplo> Can't remember syntax but something like dc1-rack1-<something>
<awilkins> I still prefer "cute" names like Norse gods and such
<awilkins> By all means give them multiple names
<foobarry> has anyone tried the calendar app in recent gnome release? does it work oK with google calendar?
<foobarry> hmm i'm thinking its vapourware
<shauno_> awilkins: problem is it's a customer network, so even if it is documented, it's not available to me
<shauno_> that said, this is the only one out of 60+ sites that I can't guess.  otherwise, uklon2-floor4-ups1 makes perfect sense to me
<bashrc> incidentally, I figured out how to import public keys with Mutt
<bashrc> CTRL-k
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<bigcalm> Mutt does encryption?
<MartijnVdS> using gnupg, yes
<MartijnVdS> using smime, if you have the right version of mutt, yes
<bigcalm> I see
<bigcalm> I only use mutt for testing that a server can send emails
<bigcalm> And sometimes for checking the output of crontab
<popey> i used to use mutt quite a bit with gpg
<popey> mutt was my default mail client for some time till I moved to gmail
<popey> yay, just tried mutt again and it still works.
<bashrc> the mutt gpg integration seems quite good
<foobarry> do you have friends who encrpyt with gpg though?
<foobarry> or is this for signed email?
<bashrc> oh, yes I know people who use gpg, although admittedly it's a small number
<bigcalm> I use it for signing my non-work emails
<bashrc> and I also use it to sign Debian packages, although that's a different sort of application
<bigcalm>  382MB 0:06:03 [2.13MB/s] [====>                                                                                                      ]  5% ETA 1:46:54
<bigcalm> :(
<bigcalm> Importing mysql dumps is slow
<diplo> :P
<diplo> Slow machine ?
<bigcalm> HP proliant microserver
<diplo> Seems slow
<daftykins> pants IO
<bigcalm> RAID1
<bigcalm> With 20 mins gone, the ETA is now 57 mins
<bigcalm> Still a long time
<bigcalm> Who broke YouTube?
<hazrpg> happy 25th www b-day everyone :D!
<andylock1an> what shte word for spreading lies about some group opposed
<popey> FUD?
<daftykins> defamation?
<bigcalm> Liable?
<bigcalm> I think liable is written and slander is spoken
<andylock1an> FUS that-s it ;D
<andylock1an> FUD
<andylock1an> what does FUD stand for?
<daftykins> fear uncertainty and doubt
<bigcalm> Fear Uncertainty Doubt
<andylock1an> perfect - thanks
<bigcalm> 6.97GB 1:15:38 [1.57MB/s] [=========================================================================================================>] 100%
<bigcalm> Finally
<daftykins> crikey
<DJones> Bloody hell, when did RMS take over Canonical and start giving keynote speeches for UDS
<jussi> DJones: ?
<DJones> jussi: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1403/meeting/22220/keynote-mark-shuttleworth/ There's more beard there than on a bearded lady at the circus
<popey> heh
<daftykins> "focussing on the LTS-ness"
<daftykins> sounds legit
<MooDoo> hello all
<daftykins> hi sir
<MooDoo> :)
<MooDoo> just watching vUDS
<daftykins> aka Beardies
<MooDoo> I'm a bit behiond though lol
<directhex> civ5 brave new world dlc is a fiver until tomorrow
<SuperMatt> new background looks good, borderless windows look great, new lock screen makes me drool... no we just need an icon set!
<SuperMatt> *now
<SuperMatt> I'm very happy with this release :)
<MooDoo> SuperEngineer: what release, he says coming in halfway through a conversation ;)
<MooDoo> that was meant for SuperMatt darm tab
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<SuperMatt> MooDoo: 14.04
<MooDoo> :) just updating mine with the latest updates
<SuperMatt> :D
<SuperMatt> there's something snappier about this release now too
<SuperMatt> I don't know
<SuperMatt> it feels like there is though
<MartijnVdS> Spoiler alert: https://meta.discourse.org/uploads/meta_discourse/1885/42a57a3684325b55.jpg
<diddledan> wow, that's an excellent spoiler
<SuperMatt> DAMMIT
<diddledan> I think spoiler alerts need some kind of pre-warning though. a spoiler alert alert
<MooDoo> lol spoiler, i thought it was a movie image or something lol
<SuperMatt> http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/8669/197932-40372-spoiler.gif
<SuperMatt> that;s my kind of spoiler
<diddledan> omg, the "web" turns 25 today
<SuperMatt> your mum turns 25 toda... that doesn't work
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: what TF postcode are you in and what speed do you get from VM?
<bashrc> Shuttleworth keynote http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWTVe5Mdv0Y
#ubuntu-uk 2014-03-13
<MooDoo> hello all
<bashrc> hello
<MooDoo> hi bashrc
<Knightwise> morning
<jussi> morning all
<MooDoo> morning jussi
<jussi> heya MooDoo
<diplo> Morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o diplo
<MooDoo> howdy diplo MartijnVdS
<popey> Morning
<nigelb> Good Morning popey, feeling better?
<MooDoo> morning pop
<MooDoo> popey:
<popey> yes thanks
<popey> now sophie is unwell
<popey> so it's done the whole rounds of the family now
<nigelb> oh, well.
<dogmatic69> bigcalm:  TF2 101mb on 100mb line
<dogmatic69> been upgraded to 152mb now though
<dogmatic69> not sure when that will kick in
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> yo
<bigcalm> Ho ho and a bottle of rum?
<popey> not a fan of rum
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy World Kidney Day! :-D
<popey> mmmm pie
<popey> http://drool.popey.com/
<foobarry> almost pi day
<foobarry> american pi
<bigcalm> My parents' cat thinks it's a bit cold today: https://www.dropbox.com/s/hfeu5m7mzkho3za/2014-03-13%2009.24.51.jpg
<andrewebdev> any developers here want a Atom invite? Unfortunately it's Mac only at this point but they have indicated a linux version should be in the works soon
<bigcalm> What is Atom?
<jussi> is it not that new text editor that wants to be online vim or something?
<jussi> https://atom.io/
<jussi> no idea if that is what he is talking about though... :D
<andrewebdev> not online vim really, more like sublime text
<bigcalm> Wow, Mac only, not even a Windows version
<andrewebdev> bigcalm, https://plus.google.com/109285932241172275424/posts/E4XEcTMwxF1
<DJones> Hmmh, anybody want to try out graze? Just got a Â£10 voucher to spend on 1st 5 graze boxes for new customers
<bigcalm> I'm happy with PhpStorm
<bigcalm> DJones: I gave up on graze as the postal delivery was pretty much always late
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bigcalm> andrewebdev: fair enough
<bigcalm> Hi brobostigon
<DJones> bigcalm: I never tried them, the food seemed to healthy for my tastes
<brobostigon> hi bigcalm
<bigcalm> DJones: the food is great. Just the delivery sucked, for me
<bigcalm> DJones: I got a lot of free boxes from them but gave up after a few months
<jussi> DJones: I dont think its available here, unfortunately
<foobarry> can anyone open the top 2 release notes on this page? https://h10145.www1.hp.com/downloads/SoftwareReleases.aspx?ProductNumber=J9642A&lang=&cc=&prodSeriesId=&SoftwareReleaseUId=10809&SerialNumber=&PurchaseDate=
<MartijnVdS> First one, yes
<MartijnVdS> actually
<foobarry> what does it show?
<MartijnVdS> "For the best experience, use Acrobat"
 * bigcalm drums his fingers, waiting for something to happen
<foobarry> MartijnVdS: yeah, can't actually see the pdf
<foobarry> i hate these big companies who do dumb stuff like this
<MartijnVdS> weird
<foobarry> does the same on windows. looks shagged
<MartijnVdS> http://superuser.com/questions/412206/how-do-i-open-a-acrobat-x-document-without-the-newest-version
<foobarry> i haz adobe X
<MartijnVdS> they made the PDFs wrong
<foobarry> what fool decided release notes in a non visible format was a good idea should be shot
<MartijnVdS> it's a "pdf portfolio", not just a PDF, apparently
<foobarry> you can't even download it
<dwatkins_> PDF portfolios are just a collection of documents.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins_: yes, but no Linux tools seem to exist to extract them properly or view them
<foobarry> the server was unavailabel earlier, so might just be broken
<MartijnVdS> except Adobe's full-of-holes-ware
<foobarry> because i can't even download the portfooio
<foobarry> even trying to d/l the software gives 404
<foobarry> ah, d/led the softwre now, its got the release notes in the zip
<foobarry> wht a fail
<foobarry> "to view the flash technology in this pdf file please install a version of flash that support adobe reader"
<MartijnVdS> give me PDF/1A any day :)
<foobarry> or .tx
<foobarry> .txt
<dwatkins> the portfolio appears to just be a ZIP archive.
<foobarry> you were able to download?
<dwatkins> I think so, it might have extracted the files when I opened the portfolio no my Mac, just checking by hand from the terminal.
<foobarry> i get "webpage is not availabel half the time"
<dwatkins> I was able to download the file itself from HP, though, yes
<dwatkins> let me know if you want the component files uploading to wetransfer or somesuch
<foobarry> yes pls
<foobarry> would be wonderful cheers
<foobarry> ah hold on
<foobarry> i installed flash and now i can see the pdf
<dwatkins> aha cool
<foobarry> thanks for the offer though
<foobarry> hp are clearly doing it wrong
<dwatkins> np
<dwatkins> I don't see why Flash would be required, it's just a portfolio with three PDFs in it.
<foobarry> opening the pdf foudn inside the software.zip on windows req'd in
<foobarry> is it normal that you can't select 10Gb-full duplex mode on a switch
<foobarry> i have to choose auto, or auto-duplex-10gb
<MartijnVdS> yes.
<foobarry> it makes vmware complain
<MartijnVdS> Anything from 1Gb onwards -> auto duplex
<MartijnVdS> auto negotiate *everything* even
<foobarry> in vsphere i cannot choose autoneg on my adapter
<foobarry> might check the bios
<foobarry> i can choose it on the intel 1gb ones
<MartijnVdS> wait.. you have a *virtual* 10Ge adapter?
<MartijnVdS> *confused*
<foobarry> i have phyiscal ones
<foobarry> but looking at the pyhs adapter details in vmware shows 10gb,full, rather than autoneg
<MartijnVdS> it probably autonegotiated full, because that's the only option for 10Ge?
<foobarry> no. autoneg appears as an option on the 1gbs
<foobarry> need to inspect my host profile and the bios settings
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: 10GbE and 1GbE are different technologies
<foobarry> MartijnVdS: my confusion arises because when applying a host profile, it says it is setting the physical 10gb nics to autoneg
<foobarry> but when i reapply the proifle , it says it is doing it again
<foobarry> so when i inspect the adapter, it doesn't look like autoneg is set
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: what is "applying a host profile"?
<foobarry> vmware's way of making sure all hypervisors have the same settings
<foobarry> i think its just a vmware oddity..
<foobarry> of which there are a few
<bigcalm> Would anybody here buy car headlight bulbs so cheaply as this? http://www.amazon.co.uk/HALOGEN-HEADLAMP-BULB-P14-5s-10mm/dp/B0045UXOT0/
<foobarry> i bought one yesterday for Â£3.95
<foobarry> what's h1? i bought h7
<bigcalm> I usually pay about 7ish quid each when mine pop
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: only if I wanted to blind other people
<foobarry> bigcalm: then you go to halfords
<diplo> I work for an electrical wholesaler, the lamps ( that's what we call them ) are really cheap compared to the Halfords of the world
<foobarry> halfords = pc world
<diplo> The profit the sheds make is quite unbelievable
<bigcalm> foobarry: 7ish quid is the cheapest you can do. H1 are expensive everywhere else
<foobarry> h1 is high beam?
<foobarry> changing the bulb on a focus sucks. need to wait til the weekend to do mine
<bigcalm> H1 = dipped, H7 = main
<foobarry> oh
<foobarry> man gave me wrong one.
<bigcalm> Oh my car - Peugeot 407
<bigcalm> s/Oh/On
<foobarry> which is "normal"
<foobarry> dipped or main
<bigcalm> dipped
<bigcalm> You use your main (full) beam when driving on country lanes with no on coming traffic and street lights
<foobarry> terminology is confusing
<foobarry> regular and high
<foobarry> in my world
<bigcalm> foobarry: look here :) http://www.powerbulbs.com/vehicles/cars/uk-ireland/peugeot/407/2004-onwards/car-headlight-bulbs
<foobarry> rebooted my server 4 times in a row. keep missing the f1 page as it takes 5 mins to boot
<foobarry> * Dipped/Low Beam: H7 (499)
<foobarry> phew
<bigcalm> See, it differs from car to car
 * bigcalm orders 10 H1 bulbs
<foobarry> i'd prefer a builb that lasts long time
<foobarry> wonder if its possible or they all come from same factory
<foobarry> i don't think i've used 10 bulbs in 20+ years
<bigcalm> http://www.amazon.co.uk/HALOGEN-HEADLAMP-BULB-P14-5s-10mm/dp/B0078F6QTE/
<bigcalm> I think that'll do me
<bigcalm> Is 55W enough for dipped?
<davmor2> bigcalm: I could look at the haynes but I don't like you that much :P
<davmor2> morning all
<bigcalm> Morning
<foobarry> lol
<bigcalm> I think the ones I've been buying have been 55W. It'll do
<davmor2> bigcalm: dipped beam is apparently a D2s-35w Xenon bulb apparently
<bigcalm> davmor2: maybe in recent versions. I don't have Xenon bulbs
<davmor2> bigcalm: oh only on some so you would have to check on your car which is fitted
<bigcalm> They piss me off as well
<foobarry> i feel about cars the way many people feel about computers
<foobarry> stuf goes wrong you pay top dollar because you are clueless
<bigcalm> Hehe
<foobarry> "your disk brakes are pitted" "your machine is low on swap space"
<bigcalm> Wow, this is a very clever use of youtube & tumblr http://sumire-uesaka-parallax-view.tumblr.com/
<jussi> oooh oooh, its 13:37 now!!! :D
<jussi> :P
<bigcalm> Bah, 2 hours to go
<foobarry> !release
<lubotu3> Ubuntu releases a new version every 6 months. Each version is supported for 9 months to 5 years. More info at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases & http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases
<foobarry> !tardy
<foobarry> !trusty
<lubotu3> Ubuntu 14.04 (Trusty Tahr) will be the 20th release of Ubuntu.  See the announcement at http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1295 for more info. support in #ubuntu+1
<Myrtti> turdy
<foobarry> whens beta1 out?
<popey> last month
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseSchedule
<foobarry> ah, was thinking final beta :S
<foobarry> 27th
<davmor2> jussi: you and your fake timezone raising our hopes
<jussi> davmor2: pffft :P
<davmor2> popey: do you have issue with the new lock screen
<dwatkins> are we allowed screensavers yet on a default install?
<popey> davmor2: be more specific?
<davmor2> popey: it appears but the screen doesn't blank you unlock it and then the screen blank and then you have to unlock it again
<bigcalm> Can't remember the last time I wanted to use a screen saver other thank blackness and going to standby. Saving power is a good thing
<dwatkins> I agree that saving power is good, but sometimes it's nice to have pretty patterns on the screen (and on the desktop background, which is where I sometimes run glmatrix)
<foobarry> yeah
<foobarry> pretty is nice in an office of conformity and dullness
<dwatkins> exactly, it also shows I'm in the office but have just stepped away from my desk.
<popey> davmor2: having difficulty parsing that
<davmor2> popey: on the desktop, your screen is suppose to blank after 5 minutes correct?  Instead what is happening is it is displaying the new lock screen.  You unlock is and 2-3 second later the screen blanks and you have to unlock it again to get back to the desktop
<davmor2> popey: was that a better description
<popey> ok
<foobarry> new unity lockscreen looks a lot like login screen #confusing - did i log out?
<popey> it looks almost identical to the login screen #consistent
<popey> davmor2: i rarely leave my machine for more than 5 mins to trigger it, will try at lunch
<davmor2> popey: let me see what happens if I lock it
<davmor2> popey: I just went to the loo so it had locked while I was gone that is the only reason I've seen it :)
<popey> Thanks for the detail.
<popey> Pee faster.
<davmor2> popey: no I think it was close to locking anyway, this machine hadn't :P
<jussi> the weird thing is on kde when I wake up from sleep I unlock the kde lock screen, then the unity one comes up and I have to unlock that also. (I also have unity installed)
<popey> davmor2: nope, i dont get two unlocks
<bigcalm> Does anybody get what looks like two wifi icons in the notification area?
<bigcalm> One acts as normal, the other just allows you to enable/disable wifi and wired connections
<davmor2> popey: seb128 just pointed out that it might be a race between unity that now handles it and the old gnome lock as I haven't rebooted so I'm going to do that now and see what happens
<popey> bigcalm: yes, uninstall indicator-network
<MartijnVdS> popey: that also removes ubuntu-system-settings as a dependency
<MartijnVdS> and unity-scope-click
<popey> intentional
<popey> you dont want/need those, unless you plan on using unity8
<MartijnVdS> I removed the "mediascanner service' yesterday
<MartijnVdS> no idea how that got installed
<bigcalm> popey: doesn't bother me, just unexpected
<mapps> hello
<mapps> well dusk till dawn the series was a let down ;/
<dwatkins> I didn't have high hopes for it.
<mapps> you watched it too?
<bigcalm> Welp. That house may have been 20k cheaper than the one we like. But the price isn't enough to sway us
<popey> bigcalm: where you moving to?
<bigcalm> popey: same area that we're in right now
<popey> oh
<bigcalm> My parents have given us 40k to help us get our own house (they don't like us renting)
<popey> golly
<popey> handy
<bigcalm> Indeed
<bigcalm> The way they put it; it's money we'd be getting any way once they die, might as well make use of it now
<bigcalm> I appear to have very level headed parents
<bigcalm> Well, you've met them
<popey> heh
<Myrtti> :-)
<Myrtti> I've moved out of my apartment \o/
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: and into..? :)
<Myrtti> didn't go crazy in the process
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: (congrats, btw)
<Myrtti> MartijnVdS: temporary staging point at my sisters
<Myrtti> my 1Â½mÂ³ of stuff arrived safe and sound to UK on Monday
<bigcalm> Myrtti: well done :) I hope the emigration goes well :)
<Pendulum> Myrtti: yay! congrats!
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: ping
<dogmatic69> bigcalm:  pong
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: ta for VM info before. Glad it's still working
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: CakePHP 1.1 - I have a field that I need to alter from a boolean to a int. I've altered the database and deleted the default_ cache file for the class. But CakePHP rebuilds it with that field as a boolean. Any thoughts?
<dogmatic69> strange
<dogmatic69> you stick debug on?
<bigcalm> Debugging is on, what should I look for?
<dogmatic69> how do you know its still 'bool'
<bigcalm> I reload the default_ file after it's been recreated and its in there as a boolean
<bigcalm> I only looked there because my code to save a field with 2 kept on coming back as 1
 * bigcalm deletes the whole of the cache/models directory
<davmor2> bigcalm: with your parents being so normal what the hell happened to you :P
<bigcalm> Not having a schema in a file is painful
 * bigcalm kippers davmor2
<MartijnVdS> popey: do you know the new screensaver? where do I file bugs on it? :)
<popey> I guess it's part of unity
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: the new lock screen is unity why?
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: I'm about to file a bug for the lock screen showing on lock rather than blanking the screen if it is that
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: wrong field name :)
<dogmatic69> hehe
 * bigcalm sighs and continues his sorry life
<dogmatic69> bigcalm:  cake 3 is alsmot out :D
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: If you lock with Ctrl+Alt+L, then walk away for $screensaver_timeout, then unlock, it will unlock, then relock again after a few seconds; unlocking the second time sticks
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: I'm a Symfony2 person these days. I really should look at ZendFramework 2 at some point
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: yeah I couldn't replicate it initially but it seems to work if you are away for a while
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: and even look at getting Zend certification
<dogmatic69> cool
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: so it's known?
<bigcalm> When I find the time for that, who knows
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: by me I couldn't replicate it I spoke to popey about it earlier :)
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: I'll file it then
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: sure pass me the bug number and I'll confirm it
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: 1292069
<bigcalm> bug 1292069 ?
<lubotu3> bug 1292069 in Unity "After locking the screen manually (Ctrl+Alt+L), then walking away, need to unlock twice" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1292069
 * bigcalm is lazy ;)
<cocoa117> so am i right to assume the syslog-ng or rsyslog or syslogd is the program that is designed to handle logs, so it can be redistributed or managed. The individual program such as bind, sendmail, httpd will need to be configured to use those syslog program in order for administrator to handle the logs properly?
<MooDoo> JamesTait: ping
<davmor2> MooDoo: what did JamesTait do to annoy you ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: nothing posted a job advertisement
<MooDoo> wanted to say thanks :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: why have you applied for it?
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah
<davmor2> MooDoo: with us?
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah IS Squad lead
<davmor2> MooDoo: Oh god no ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: lol thanks for your support sir ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: I mean YAY! \o/
<MooDoo> lol cheeky fecker ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: hey the last one was very nearly serious ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: here's very nearly two fingers at you / ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: if you get it it'll be î¿\o/î¿ î¿\o/î¿ î¿\o/î¿ :)
<MartijnVdS> *\o/* *\o/* ?
<davmor2> MooDoo: if you get it, it's your round.......always ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: deal.  but don't hold your breath ;)
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: Don't you mean *\o/* */0\* C A ?
 * MartijnVdS wonders how that second emoticon works
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: yeah the pompoms should be on the inside :D
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> anchorman 2 was a let down too grmpf
<daftykins> mapps: yeah pretty yawn that was :(
<MooDoo> Can't say I've seen anchorman to be honest
<dogmatic69_> anyone know if the sky box internals are good for anything?
<bigcalm> You could desolder components
<dogmatic69_> well I was thinking more the main board is basically a raspberry pi
<dogmatic69_> it runs linux, has hdmi, eth, sata etc
<mapps> oh does it?
<mapps> didnt know hm
<mapps> daftykins always the case eh when somethings talked up so much..fails to live up to the hype and that
<dogmatic69_> amstrad drx890
<daftykins> mapps: hmm i watched it pretty early so hadn't heard any hype, for #2 i mean
<daftykins> #1 is... marmite
<dogmatic69_> http://galleryplus.ebayimg.com/ws/web/271404727009_1_0_1/1000x1000.jpg
<dogmatic69_> must be someone hacking these things
<daftykins> looks like RAM beside the sink
<daftykins> serial port to fudge with
<dogmatic69_> ye
<dogmatic69_> eth, 2x sata, usb, serial.. has all the makings of something good
<dogmatic69_> on the left seems like a load of I/O, they connect to another board with all the other stuff. power, rca, sound etc.
<dogmatic69_> way cheaper than a pi too http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AMSTRAD-SKY-HD-MAIN-BOARD-ON-THE-DRX890-/271404727009?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Satellite_TV_Receivers&hash=item3f30fb7ae1
<MG__> Heating and fan sound problem sony vaio
<MG__> ?
<MG__> any suggestion?
<dogmatic69_> new fan
<MooDoo> you could be a little clearer, what's the problem?
<MG__> But I don't have problem using windows.
<MG__> two days ago I installed ubuntu desktop on my sony Vaio laptop.
<MG__> Now when I run windows there is no fan sound.
<bigcalm> It's possibly a graphics issue. Installing the binary drivers may help
<daftykins> version? laptop model? hardware spec? sound hardware?
<MG__> but as I go to ubuntu fan makes a lot noise.
<MG__> Ubuntu Desktop 12.04
<MooDoo> MG__: http://askubuntu.com/questions/359591/how-do-i-fix-loud-fan-noise-and-heat-on-my-sony-vaio
<MG__> Sony Vaio,
<MG__> Tnaks MooDoo
<MooDoo> try it see what happens
<MG__> What is TPL?
<MG__> Sorry TLP?
<MooDoo> advanced power management - http://linrunner.de/en/tlp/docs/tlp-linux-advanced-power-management.html
<MG__> Thanks MooDoo
<MooDoo> but a lot of people say this will work although I can't confirm as i've never tried it - echo OFF > /sys/kernel/debug/vgaswitcheroo/switch
<MG__> Good
<MooDoo> I would search for it in google before you try it, just to make sure it's not something that will cause your computers to freeze or something
<daftykins> frozenputer
<MG__> Ok
<MG__> Thanks MooDoo
<MG__> actually I have everything in this nootebook.
<MG__> I can't do risk.
<MG__> MooDoo, please note as I said
<MG__> I don't have any problem using windows
<MooDoo> yeah I think it's specific to linux, you'd ave to google it
<MG__> Ok
<MG__> Lets try
<MG__> Thank you for your help.
<MooDoo> no probs
#ubuntu-uk 2014-03-14
<mapps> hmm whats the need for 2 wireless networks on vm
<mapps> 1 ghz and 1 2.4
<MartijnVdS> mapps: what do you mean?
<MartijnVdS> 1x 5GHz and 1x 2.4?
<mapps> well
<mapps> yea
<MartijnVdS> and what hardware you need for that?
<mapps> er oops i said 1ghz and 1 2.4
<MartijnVdS> client side or access point side?
<mapps> just the standard router they give us
<mapps> i just wondered why
<MartijnVdS> mapps: the 2.4 band is quite full, with other wifi networks, DECT, bluetooth, and lots of other things
<mapps> ah will interfere with it?
<mapps> so why not just use the 5ghz only?#
<MartijnVdS> on 5GHz there are way more channels, with less overlap
<MartijnVdS> 5GHz doesn't go through walls as well
<MartijnVdS> And not every client device has a 5GHz radio, so backwards compatibility
<mapps> good point
<mapps> just looks funny haviong 4 wireless
<mapps> 2 for BT FTC and 2 for Virgin media
<MartijnVdS> I gave my 5GHz and 2.4GHz the same name + crypto
<MartijnVdS> so my phone and laptop switch to the best signal automagically
<Knightwise> morning everyone
<Myrtti> mornin
<mapps> morning
<Knightwise> hey Myrtti mapps :)
<Knightwise> how are you doin :-
<mapps> wondering what to do today:D using last of my holiday been off since saturday till next weds
<mapps> so i slept like 8pm-4am last night lol..so i guess il be sleeping odd hoursd today O_o
<mapps> broke my laptop screen too..so there's another fun job for me
<mapps> 3rd laptop screen ive had to replace:)
<Knightwise> I would realy like to try installing the ubuntu touch on my nexus 7 2013
<Knightwise> just wondering how hard that is
<mapps> ah yes
<mapps> good idea Knightwise
<mapps> i meant to try that too
<mapps> but haven't got round to it..ive got the first Nexus7 im guessing mines 2012?
<Knightwise> anyone know where the official documentation (and the official image on that is ? )
<mapps> ya
<mapps> thewebsite
<mapps> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install
<mapps> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<Knightwise> ah ok , that will give me a weekend project
<mapps> ja looks like a long job
<Knightwise> but can you also have the terminal apps like irssi and stuff on there ?
<mapps> not sure
<Knightwise> looks like it .
 * Knightwise wondering if he should upgrade yet
<mapps> yea you should try it
<mapps> im going to
<mapps> i just hadn't yet because it looked like a long process LOL
<jussi> o/
<jussi> its like 10 mins work to get touch on your device...
<mapps> pffft
<mapps> looks like a lot of reading
<mapps> :D
<jussi> not really. but then again, I did have popey helping me :D
<jussi> bwahahahah
<mapps> :)
 * Knightwise will wait till popey gets here :p
<MooDoo> morning all
<MooDoo> upgrading?
<Knightwise> nexus 7 to ubuntu touch
<MooDoo> ah cool
<jussi> oh btw, just a feeling of how good my week has been - we had this picture made on Wednesday :) http://is.gd/dsCGtK
 * jussi grinsd
<MooDoo> oooooo wonderful :) congrats
<mapps> jussi is pregnant!
<mapps> unless im looking at the photo wrong
<jussi> mapps: not I, but hte wife... :D
<mapps> :)
<mapps> first child?
<jussi> mapps: second
<mapps> ah
<MooDoo> congrats :)
<mapps> yes congrats jussi
<jussi> thanks MooDoo, mapps :D
<MooDoo> No you can join the 2 kids club ;)
<MooDoo> s/no/now
<mapps> ;]
<mapps> 2 kids.sounds like a fulltime job!
<MooDoo> it is :)
<mapps> enough of a chore doing all the boring stuff for myself
<MooDoo> mine are 5 and 2 :)
<mapps> the cooking/cleaning all the really exciting stuff
<jussi> mapps: your life changes.
<jussi> (when you have kids)
<mapps> i can imagine
<jussi> both good and bad
<mapps> i live on my own and have pretty much no rules
<MooDoo> +1
<MooDoo> mapps: shut it
<MooDoo> ;)
<mapps> beyond pay my bills and go to work
<mapps> lol
<mapps> i still have to go to work!!
<MooDoo> I love work, especially when I get home and smell the pooey nappies ;)
<mapps> this first dates show on channel4 is so funny..hilarious when the daters dont get on
<mapps> if they got on wouldn't be amusing at all lol
<MooDoo> oh got I can't watch that type of program too cringe worthy :)
<mapps> its so funny mate
<mapps> when the girls like 'yea bill please' and they havent ordered
<mapps> LOL
<MooDoo> I end up wanting to punch the tv :)
<mapps> 2 drinks and done..couldnt stand each other
<mapps> this women cheated on her husband with a 22 yr old, shes like 40 and she's trying to claim its something to do with being bi-polar
<mapps> err...do me a favour
<MooDoo> lol ha ha ha ha
<mapps> everytime I watch these shows, any reality shows i figure i wouldnt get on with like 99% of people
<MooDoo> yeah we hate you too ;)
<MooDoo> lol mwah!
<mapps> lol
<mapps> you havent been on any
<mapps> !
<mapps> im guessing:)
<MooDoo> no chance, I'm not that stupid
<MooDoo> hay lets go on telly sound deperate and show people how dumb I am :)
<MooDoo> I do that enough in RL ;)
<mapps> yea i can do without it
<mapps> i dont need to be on tv no desire
<mapps> i dont need attention..not a five year old
<jussi> the absolute worst reality tv show is.... (finish the sentence)
<nigelb> jussi: are wildcards supported? :)
<MooDoo> _1
<jussi> nigelb: no :P
<MooDoo> I'm a celeb.......
<jussi> MooDoo: what was that horrible one from wales? The Valley or something?
<MooDoo> no idea, I dread to thinkg
<mapps> hahaha yea ive seen it
<mapps> the valleys
<mapps> hideous
<jussi> MooDoo: stay as far away as you possibly can
 * jussi shivers. 
<MooDoo> hehe:)
<popey> morning all
<MooDoo> morning popey
<Myrtti> popey: does Sky come and nibble you when you need to say something on a work Hangout? I just had that experience, it's a bit annoying trying to shove the cat off while talking
<popey> heh
<popey> Salem does
<Myrtti> almost strangled the cat with my headphone lead
<popey> he mostly climbs on my desk during hangouts
<Myrtti> https://plus.google.com/u/0/100016383867666174158/posts/Qvv711jG3UD <-- this morning
<popey> awwwww
<popey> http://imgur.com/3eIlcf7,gMe1S0c,97unblf,3DzW4a4,S1cd4v0,NvnoyAD,MHgWwMs,7cGpFDK,8DXGhuS,H8ReRsA
<popey> happens a fair amount
<popey> http://imgur.com/nSRJKwE,e4WTn08,DFbbAxE,P7OdIfw,sxeVqlg,dYnZfMT,7skcCCX,Xw9fzcP,JA3jOuD,tiRxP5n,iEPe4m7,gKitRqB,ay9ePyP,U3pjgz6,1oeqIU5,OszGF9S,YwCO9qV,IYOjYBg,DugCqLJ,Thlz1Wt,BTIIDpA,2veaRql,I9mOn1t,PoqPb4z,mYWWbNW,28BCHpQ
<popey> means I get to do the cat-stache http://imgur.com/28BCHpQ
<popey> Knightwise: wassup?
<Knightwise> hey popey :Ã 
<Knightwise> might start playing around with putting ubuntu toch on the nexus 7 today :)
<popey> nexus 7 2012 or 2013?
<Knightwise> 2013
<Knightwise> I thought i read something that it was now officially supported ?
<popey> yeah, it is
<Knightwise> I mostly read books and watch video"s on my tablet .. so i think i can switch it over...
<Knightwise> not sure if there is an ebook reader out there on touch.
<popey> there is, it displays epubs
<popey> upstream is a nice guy, has a bugtracker on github
<popey> Beru
<Knightwise> and do you know if you can run terminal apps in ubuntu touch ?
<popey> Knightwise: it has a terminal
<popey> the default image is read-only, but that's easily changed, and you could apt-get install stuff
<popey> the downside with that is you  lose whatever you apt-got when you do an over the air update
<popey> swings and roundabouts
<Knightwise> popey: sounds cool. So i could install stuff like irssi and all the command line apps ?
<popey> yes
<Knightwise> add keyboard and mouse and I have the smallest ubuntu machine in the house ?
<popey> Knightwise: http://popey.com/~alan/phablet/device-2013-06-11-083953.png
<Knightwise> * drool *
<Knightwise> nexus 7 + wireshark + public wifi somewhere ...
<ali1234> i think the word "Terminal" needs to be bigger
<Knightwise> And you can just flash it with an ubuntu machine .. right ?
<popey> yes
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install
<bashrc> using a better power supply for the beaglebone.  The previous one was only about 300mA
<bashrc> so it would grey out if you tried to compile a kernel :)
<DJones> You know its a bad start to the day when you think there's something wrong with your new glasses, then realise that they're fine and its just foggy
<jussi> heh
<popey> Friday was poached egg on toast day
<popey> It can only go downhill from here
<jussi> this is really cool to come accross :D http://www.ohwr.org/
<DJones> Bacon & sausage barm for me
<jussi> cornflakes...
<Myrtti> poached egg and tomato nomnomnom
<mapps> i had eggs and bacon:D
<jussi> popey: only beer can make it better :D
<popey> \o/ #breakfast-uk
<mapps> washed down with a FULL FAT COKE
<mapps> none of this diet/zero taste nonsense
<mapps> :)
<popey> coke for breakfast?
<mapps> yea i fancied one
<popey> â»
 * popey likes Pepsi Max
<mapps> didn't have any juice so it was water/tea or coke
<Myrtti> I splurged and brewed a pot of Yorkshire
 * neuro is on the Diet Irn-Bru
<Myrtti> having drunk Twinings English Breakfast for a week the difference is very noticeable
<Myrtti> well, two weeks
<neuro> and i'm just about to go out and get rolls and bacon and brown sauce
<jussi> diet drinks are so horrible. not only taste, but aspartame is really nasty stuff.
<neuro> says you
<mapps> what is it Myrtti? fancy tea?
<mapps> yes jussi aspartame causes the cancer!
<mapps> zero sugar..zero taste!
<Myrtti> mapps: Yorkshire? just plain tea.
<neuro> diet irn bru tastes fine to me
<neuro> so does fanta zero, diet 7up and diet coke with cherry
<mapps> the engliosh breakfast you talked of
<mapps> i didnt know there was a diet coke w/cherry
<neuro> yup
<mapps> ugh
<mapps> 400kb/s
<mapps> on VM atm, why's it so slow
<neuro> it's a black cherry flavour rather than the red cherry that you get in full fat cherry coke
<mapps> wish i could link my VM + BT
<mapps> but feels like it'd be too much effort
<Myrtti> mapps: no, just plain tea too http://www.tesco.com/groceries/Product/Details/?id=256431702
 * neuro hugs his 2x80Mbps VDSL2 lines and wanders off for BACON
<bashrc> I had a continental/Yorkshire breakfast
<Knightwise> popey: what was the url again (it scrolled offscreen)
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Ask A Question Day! :-D
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: Why?
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, what?
<MartijnVdS> how?
<JamesTait> Who wants to know?
<nigelb> Oh, the Answer a Question day is on Monday?
<JamesTait> nigelb, where did you hear that?
<JamesTait> Is anyone keeping track of these questions, so we can answer them on Monday?
<JamesTait> MooDoo, did you need something from me last night?
<nigelb> JamesTait: I didn't. Do you know if it is?
<MooDoo> JamesTait: not really, just wanted to say thnaks for posting the job advert on FB :)
<JamesTait> MooDoo, did you see that I "liked" your comment on FB?
<JamesTait> MooDoo, also, did you realise you just broke the chain of questions? :-P
<JamesTait> nigelb, does such a thing even exist?
<nigelb> Don't you think it would be a good thing to exist?
<popey> Knightwise: google for ubuntu touch install â»
<MooDoo> JamesTait: yes and no
<JamesTait> nigelb, but where will it end?
<mapps> Knightwise https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> bigcalm: hello
<Knightwise> got it :) backing up now :-)
<mapps> let me know how easy it is..i may try it after
<Knightwise> hahah :) ok mapps :) i'll be your beta tester
<neuro> BAAAAAAAAAACOOOOOOOOON! (to be screamed as though shouting "captain caveman")
<MooDoo> o/ BACON!
<neuro> i bet most of you whippersnappers won't even remember Captain Caveman without googling for it
<Knightwise> someone needs their ADD meds
<Knightwise> ooonga Mooonga !
 * Knightwise remembers
<MartijnVdS> IDDQD meds?
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: IDKFA!
<neuro> \o/
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: IDSPISPOPD
<Knightwise> oh boy
<Knightwise> its friday .. right ?
<neuro> no
<MooDoo> blast from the past :D
<Knightwise> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YD36ZhpHPpE
<neuro> due to unforeseen technical difficulties, we've had to rollback to Thursday
<neuro> sorry about that
<diplo> Captain Caveman was great!
 * Knightwise should have probably deleted the videos and mp3's off his nexus before running the backup
<popey> CAPTAIN
<Knightwise> CAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAVE
<popey>   ____    ___     _______ __  __    _    _   _ _
<popey>  / ___|  / \ \   / / ____|  \/  |  / \  | \ | | |
<popey> | |     / _ \ \ / /|  _| | |\/| | / _ \ |  \| | |
<popey> | |___ / ___ \ V / | |___| |  | |/ ___ \| |\  |_|
<popey>  \____/_/   \_\_/  |_____|_|  |_/_/   \_\_| \_(_)
<popey>                                                  
<Knightwise> ROFL ! ! ! !
<MooDoo> oh dear god no, let the pain stop :)
<neuro> ROLL AND
<neuro>  ___   _      _      _      _   ___ ___   ___   ___  _  _ _  _
<neuro> | _ ) /_\    /_\    /_\    /_\ / __/ _ \ / _ \ / _ \| \| | \| |
<neuro> | _ \/ _ \  / _ \  / _ \  / _ \ (_| (_) | (_) | (_) | .` | .` |
<neuro> |___/_/ \_\/_/ \_\/_/ \_\/_/ \_\___\___/ \___/ \___/|_|\_|_|\_|
<MooDoo> http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/c/caveman.jpg
<Knightwise> remember this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOKAU8chsAA
<neuro> bravestarr was rubbish
<Knightwise> our comic book store had all the action figures in a collection last week
<directhex> any train nerds in here?
<Knightwise> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmlSNvOQnkE  And this
<Knightwise> proto he-man
<neuro> discount buck rogers
<Knightwise> LOL
<Knightwise> true
 * Knightwise watched some star trek animated series last week
<MooDoo> biddy biddy biddy
<Knightwise> gill gerard was cool in his day
<neuro> this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExC6OEQazrc - is still the greatest kids tv show of the 80s though
<neuro> gil gerard has been popping up in the star trek new voyages / phase II fan series
<MooDoo> I loved that
<ali1234> ahahaha YES
<MooDoo> neuro: my fave show ever!!!!!! http://youtu.be/U6Ng7VMqet0
<ali1234> gotta love weird puppets
<neuro> EEEEY OOOP LITTLE OLD LAAAADYYYYY
<MooDoo> hehe
<Knightwise> he
<Knightwise> i htought that show was called Bomber-X
<neuro> Knightwise: it was
<neuro> but the dubbed UK version was redone
<neuro> GREAT SPOTTED DRAAAAAGONNNN!
<Knightwise> cool , nice to find that
<Knightwise> I think i should download a couple of epps
<neuro> same as Battle of the Planets was really Science Ninja Team Gatchaman, with some added bits (mainly 7-Zark-7)
<Knightwise> i LOVED battle of the planets
<Knightwise> I hated that little robot though
<neuro> you'd probably love Gatchaman then, since he's not in it ;)
<Knightwise> this is the french intro to "star fleet" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiScuDJPR2g
<Knightwise> looking back .. its terrible
<neuro> wow, that's cheesy
<ali1234> that looks more like the closing titles
<Knightwise> i know , because of french cultural law 80% of tv shows need to be in french
<Knightwise> so they dubbed EVERYTHING
<MartijnVdS> dubbing should be a capital crime
<bashrc> magic roundabout?
<Knightwise> without a doubt : the worst one : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMNX1NRC7q0
<neuro> this is the japanese original: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GisZ07wsiVY
<neuro> i think we got the best deal to be honest
<neuro> and yeah, that was the closing credits
<neuro> opening credits: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umubCnZ4PRY
<ali1234> did anyone else watch the japanese thunderbirds cartoon?
<neuro> Thunderbirds 2086?
<ali1234> yes
<neuro> haha
<neuro> original title was ç§å­¦æå©éãã¯ããã¤ã¸ã£
<neuro> Scientific Rescue Team Techno Voyager
<neuro> "loosely inspired", but ITC bought the UK rights and rebranded it Thunderbirds
<Knightwise> I think i remember that
<ali1234> it used to be on kids tv in the 80s...
<neuro> i don't remember watching it
<neuro> interesting though that the UK opening titles are like terrahawks ...
<ali1234> well i expect those are totally original
<neuro> ?
<neuro> well duh
<ali1234> the "computer" graphics stuff
<neuro> since the japanese original wasn't called Thunderbirds 2086 :)
<Knightwise> youtube-dl .. i love you
<neuro> TB actually stood for "TechnoBoyager" but obviously a homage to "Thunderbird"
<neuro> japanese opening titles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yzMSTsKbhk
<neuro> oh, same music, heh
<ali1234> they don't make kids shows like this any more
<davmor2> Morning all
<ali1234> about 20 people were killed in the first 5 minutes
<neuro> not in western cartoons
<neuro> in fact that was one of the things they edited out of Gatchaman when making Battle of the Planets
<ali1234> yeah i guess what i meant was they don't SHOW kids tv like this any more
<ali1234> HAHAHA "stun gun" - yeah right
<davmor2> neuro: reminds me more of battle of the planets :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<mapps> morning
<brobostigon> morning mapps
<bashrc> I vaguely remember battle of the planets
<bashrc> wasn't it a cartoon in which htere were a lot of exploding space ships?
<awilkins> Yeah, and again, five young people
<awilkins> What is it with Japan and teams of 5 young people
<davmor2> neuro: or battle of the planets merged with thunderbirds maybe :D
<bashrc> fab 5
<awilkins> BATTLE OF THE THUNDERBIRDS
<bashrc> they should have crossed battle of the planets with the magic roundabout
<mapps> sweet
<mapps> new laptop screen arrived!
<mapps> only ordered it yesterday:)
<brobostigon> :)
<MooDoo> wow that's quick
<jussi> nice
<mapps> ya
<mapps> but
<mapps> they are only up the road judging by the postcode
<mapps> yea 30mins in a car
<davmor2> mapps: maybe drive there next time and it will be 30 mins rather than an entire day ;)
<mapps> i dont have a car :(
<mapps> so itd be a nice long walk heh
<jussi> Cool, Katherine Legge will be racing in Formula E! :D http://www.fiaformulae.com/drivers
<directhex> electric racing series? fancy
<directhex> and hooray. the lack of female drivers in motorsports is silly, especially considering small lightweight drivers are preferred
<directhex> hmph, the test driver for our local team died. that's sad.
<jussi> directhex: oh thats crap :/
<jussi> but yeah, the Electric series looks really interesting.
<jussi> Should spell a lot of development in batteries and so on
<directhex> jussi, she had a nasty crash in 2012, apparently caused her to not wake up in late 2013
<jussi> directhex: ouch. Has happened to the best of them though
<mapps> what is forumla e?
<directhex> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mar%C3%ADa_de_Villota
<jussi> mapps: like formula 1, but electric
<directhex> most motorsport is in the local area here
<directhex> which is probably something to do with silverstone being down the road
<jussi> directhex: I went and drove a mclaren the other day :D
<jussi> (at 3 sisters in wigan
<directhex> anyone have a 4000-series or older radeon?
<jussi> not I, mostly intel with a smattering of nvidia here
<brobostigon> yes, loads of motorsport around here.
<Dave2> poor women, why did you deliberately run them over
<brobostigon> it seems sad really, if comedians have nothing better to do, the bbc commisions them to do chat shows.
<awilkins> Yeah, but it's discovered that if you fire them they become political activists (Russell Brand)
<brobostigon> russell brand shouldnt have anyhting to do with either imo.
<brobostigon> he is a nut.
<jussi> mmmm... hot english mustard
<jussi> also, horseradish sauce is something I need to see if I can find here...
<jussi> Myrtti: know if its possible to get it here?
<mapps> hm
<mapps> installed fedora on my desktop and now its not got vista listed in the boot menu for grub
<MartijnVdS> mapps: does it also ahve a Windows partition?
<mapps> yea
<MartijnVdS> or a recovery partition
<mapps> it shows windows 7
<MartijnVdS> heh.. someone's detection is outdated
<mapps> what a pain
<mapps> so i need to manually edit grub
<davmor2> brobostigon: A well educated Nut :)
<brobostigon> davmor2: good point, yes.
<davmor2> I find it mildly amusing that most comedians are university graduates as are most ageing rockstars :D
<MooDoo> hello davmor2
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: the stupid rockstars drugged themselves into an early grave?
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: haha
<awilkins> More like the working class guys didn't have time to practise guitar
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> os-prober only finding windows 7
<brobostigon> keith moon, for example.
<jussi> ooh, cool, there will be an event in london (formula e)
<jussi> fair bit of wind here now...
<brobostigon> 5mph wind here.
<davmor2> awilkins: more like working class guys could afford the instruments
<brobostigon> like mark knopfler.
<jussi> brobostigon: we've got somewhere about a 7 on the beaufort scale.
<jussi> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaufort_scale
<jussi> maybe an 8
<brobostigon> jussi: i shall have to work out how to convert the scales.
<jussi> :D
<MartijnVdS> Wind speeds are always in "Beaufort scale" numbers on weather reports here in .nl
<brobostigon> i think i saw a way to display beaufort scaling on my pebbles weather app.
<brobostigon> how could i abbreviate beaufort to fit on my watchface?
<popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpcAd__qHP0 Baufort scale sketch from mitchell & webb...
<MartijnVdS> they have a sketch for everything
<popey> indeed they do
<popey> its one of my faves
<MartijnVdS> the homeopathic a&e one is also a classic
<popey> i used to go to sleep listening to mitchell & webb
<mapp> ah no cbs reality here
<mapp> grmpf..no judge judy for me today
<Myrtti> jussi: http://www.punnitse.fi/ http://www.littlebritannia.fi/
<Myrtti> jussi: make your own mustard from the powder
<MooDoo> anyone playing riddling?
<jussi> Myrtti: mustard I have. the horseradish sauce...
<jussi> (hot english mustard is available in select citimarkets)
<Myrtti> I'd be amazed if P&S or LB didn't have them
<jussi> Myrtti: do the finns have an equivalent? "finnish version" ?
<jussi> I have no idea what horseradish is in finnish...
<Myrtti> piparjuuri
<Myrtti> https://fi.foodie.fm/#!/entry/6417808347512
<Myrtti> https://fi.foodie.fm/#!/entry/8712566423392
<diddledan> lol @ the name "crÃ¨me bonjour" - literally "cream hello" or "cream good day"
<diddledan> did I spell cream right? I can spell crÃ¨me fine, but doing it in my native language?
<jussi> Myrtti: OH NOM. lets see if it tastse anything like what it should taste like... :D
<bashrc> has anyone commented on Shuttleworth's beard?
<jussi> bashrc: Ive seen many comments...
<jussi> but do feel free :P
<bashrc> I think it's an improvement
<daftykins> i think it looks unprofessional
<daftykins> unless you mean he's done something with it of late
<popey> did you see him see why he did it?
<daftykins> nah
<popey> someone he knows got stopped by the TSA for hours.. when the guy left (was 100% innocent) he asked the TSA why they stopped him, the TSA guy said "to be honest, it was the beard"
<daftykins> hahaha
<popey> mark flies a lot, so i think he is trolling the TSA
<popey> hoping to get stopped â»
<popey> he used to have a t-shirt that said "I am not a terrorist" in arabic on it
<daftykins> XD
<popey> I guess if you travel a lot like he does, you get bored at customs â»
<diddledan> lol
 * diddledan fondles his own beard
<daftykins> if you ever see me in the big slopey queue at Gatwick, prepare to cry as i walk past all the queues and nip down the little 'Channel Island flights only' side bit ;)
<daftykins> total bypass \o/
<daftykins> wow my client is seriously lucky
<daftykins> i managed to find this on ebay...
<daftykins> www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sony-Vaio-vgn-tt-keyboard-palm-rest-touch-pad-/111299104398
<daftykins> Â£14 to get a replacement keyboard for his water damaged one \o/
<popey> Myrtti: \o/ foldio on its way!
<diplo> UK only daftykins - not causing you any issues for channel islands ?
<daftykins> diplo: probably won't, we have postcodes so we kind of get the benefit of the doubt in such circumstances
<diplo> :)
<daftykins> i would rage if not
<mapps> why does every idiot and their mum think they should go to ascot and cheltenham yet the rest of the year they dont care about horseracing at all
<diddledan> mapps: for ladies' day
<diddledan> it's a special celebration of hats
<mapps> but todays just cheltenham day 2 and the papers show the usual tarted up girls and idiot guys in suits
<diddledan> yeah well they're toffs or toff-wanabes :-p
<mapps> dont see the point in going..I hated chester..having to wear a suit in the royal enclosure and paying more to do so?
<mapps> 35 quid and HAD towear a suit normal tattersals like 10 quid wear anything
<diddledan> nowt like paying money to be told what to wear
<mapps> lol yea
<mapps> pay more to be told i have to wear a suit and tie..and beer costs 4.50
<diddledan> ouch
<mapps> and you can bet with the on course robbers....betfairs always better
<directhex> i am bringing ye olde steamose back to life, under a new name
<diddledan> lol @ on-course robbers with their refreshing little lifts (tic-tacs)
<diddledan> directhex: valve shirking again?
<directhex> diddledan, well, some stuff needs better coverage than it has right now, and r4 doesn't work properly anymore afaik
<directhex> diddledan, so at least i need a "this is the same as valve" release
<diddledan> aah
<directhex> but i want to go further than that
<directhex> first thing to do is rebuild my scripts, more or less from scratch, to handle being run from the .iso not the .zip
<diddledan> not a bad kickstarter return: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/weebl/the-savlonic-album
<diddledan> just shy of 35k when they wanted 12.5k
<dwatkins> Kickstarter never ceases to amaze me.
<directhex> http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2012/05/25
 * bigcalm wobbles in and out of existence
<Myrtti> popey: yeah, I noticed
<diddledan> bigcalm: awesome, how do you manage that, 'cos I want to be able to do it, too :-)
<bigcalm> diddledan: put an offer in on a house while your wife is out. I'm not sure if I should be alive or not right now
<diddledan> bigcalm: eek
<diddledan> that's scary stuff right there
<davmor2> bigcalm: wibble
<diddledan> davmor2: if you had underpants on your head and a pencil stuffed up each nostril then I might think you were going mad
<davmor2> diddledan: it was aimed squarely at * bigcalm wobbles in and out of existence I think he has the underpants on his head and pencils up his nose :D
<diddledan> as long as there are underpants and pencils somewhere I'll be happy
<davmor2> bigcalm: more importantly why is diddledan not outraged at his wife being not only at your house but now out ;)
<diddledan> lmao I missed that
<diddledan> and there's a reason to delete a line and retype instead of repurposing something that's half-written
 * bigcalm shakes his head
<davmor2> bigcalm: it'll be fine as long as it is the house she loves and you like :)
<bigcalm> Ha
<bigcalm> We both love it
<davmor2> bigcalm: better still
<bigcalm> directhex: ratio 100 - can I stop seeding this torrent yet? ;)
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> bigcalm: apparently it doesn't work anymore so it could be wise XD
<ali1234> why not?
<bigcalm> Goodness me. People are still downloading it from me
<bigcalm> 2 connections, one at 24% one at 76%
<daftykins> :>
<diddledan> bigcalm: shame you can't send them a message
<daftykins> oh no? ;)
<diddledan> like windows' net send only via bittorrent
<ali1234> you used to be able to do that on kazaa...
<ali1234> or one of those things
<diddledan> really. don't google "rule 34".
<diddledan> that's scary
<ali1234> why would you do that
<bigcalm> Why wouldn't you do that?
<diddledan> I need eyebleach now
<daftykins> the nsfw search? :P
<diddledan> yeah I don't have safesearch turned on
<ali1234> but
<diddledan> maybe that would be a good idea for the futures
<ali1234> surely you must have known what you were getting in to?
<diddledan> nope, I'd not heard of rule34 before
<diddledan> which is scary in itself
<TwistedLucidity> Why are people discussing "Rule 34" in a familty-friendly channel? There could be children reading. THINK OF THE CHILDREN!
<TwistedLucidity>  /daily-mail
<awilkins> Rule 34 says that someone somewhere IS thinking of the children.
<awilkins> And that there is a website devoted to publishing pictures of this person's musings
<diddledan> I mentioned it as a public service announcement for the children to know what to avoid
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: I am sure Cameron rescinded Rule 34; so we are all safe.
<bashrc> what is "rule 34"?  It sounds like a Wolfram automaton
<daftykins> if you can think of it, there's a grumble flick of it
<daftykins> to use theregister's terminology
<Knightwise> hey everyone
<Knightwise> I seem to have a hard time getting the nexus 7 into the bootloader menu
<brobostigon> adb reboot bootloader    , would do it.
<Knightwise> brobostigon: i moved up a step
<brobostigon> Knightwise: clarify.
<Knightwise> I forgot to boot it into bootloader
<brobostigon> ok,
<mapps> how far along are you with it now Knightwise
<Knightwise> I just unlocked the bootloader
<Knightwise> i'm at step 4
<Knightwise> downloading the image
<brobostigon> have you flashed custom recovery?
<Knightwise> erm ...
<Knightwise> what do you mean by that ?
<Knightwise> i entered ubuntu-device-flash --channel=devel --bootstrap
<brobostigon> something like CWM ?
<Knightwise> nope , i just followed the steps on the wiki
<brobostigon> ok, i havent actually flashed ubuntu touch, so couldnt tell you about that.
<Knightwise> to boldly go ... :)
<Knightwise> i now see a home screen with an ubuntu logo.
<Knightwise> its rebooting the recovery from flash it says
<Knightwise> booting
<Knightwise> nice ubuntu logo :p
<Knightwise> taking its sweet time :p
 * Knightwise gonna get coffee
<mapps> nice
<Knightwise> ok , i seem to et a question here
<Knightwise> ROM may flash stock recovery on boot
<Knightwise> Yes : disable recovery from flash
<Knightwise> or NO
<Knightwise> brobostigon:  ? any advice ?
<brobostigon> not sure, sorry.
<daftykins> stock recovery might break something
<daftykins> Knightwise: try #ubuntu-touch
<brobostigon> good idea batman, ask the experts.
<diddledan> seems sophos and os x don't mix
<diddledan> http://openforum.sophos.com/t5/Sophos-Anti-Virus-for-Mac-Home/Sophos-9-causes-Mavericks-to-freeze/m-p/16279#M7456
 * Knightwise dashing over there
<diddledan> I may have shared this before, can't remember. but: http://grahamcluley.com/2014/02/pregnant-wifes-medical-equipment-windows-xp-chkdsk
<diddledan> (I'm cleaning my inbox)
<popey> hehe, not seen that before
<ali1234> why would a piece of medical equipment be connected to the internet?
<diddledan> ali1234: bad network design
<bigcalm> ARGH
<bigcalm> Modal box covering whole screen. Good by website
<ali1234> the internet sucks
<diddledan> ali1234: they may network it so that the nurses station can duplicate the information and the idiot network designer might wire their desktops and therefore the internet into the same segment
<ali1234> yes, i suppose
<diddledan> similar to how you end up with air conditioners exposed to the internet allowing large companies to be pwned because they didn't know their aircon was vulnerable to attack
<diddledan> I believe there was a thanksgiving issue last year of just that exact thing happening. hackers took control of air-con in stores and from there they had unrestricted access to the billing systems because the stores thought that behind the firewall was safe to leave the billing system unrestricted
<popey> hah
<diddledan> https://krebsonsecurity.com/2014/02/target-hackers-broke-in-via-hvac-company/
<popey> oh thats the target breach? blimey
<ali1234> that's some william gibson shiz right there
<mapps> yea
<mapps> read that a while back, the aircon company had remote access to monitor the systems
<shauno> worth noting that doesn't mean the aircon was exposed to the internet; it means the partner company had access to target's network
<ali1234> yeah
<diddledan> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/03/13/google_cloud_price_cuts/
<diddledan> google has undercut it's own storage
<diddledan> shauno: good point
<davmor2> Tainted Love what a classic
<diddledan> it looks like it was a poorly guarded password to gain access to the network in target's case
<ali1234> my guess would be an inside job
<ali1234> by someone at the contractor
<ali1234> either that or a complicated heist involving dressing up like air-conditioner repair men and installing hardware backdoors
<popey> company I worked for got done over by people dressed as aircon engineers
<ali1234> possibly a combination of both
<popey> came in on a saturday and took half the RAM out of every PC in the building
<ali1234> "oops, i accidentally-on-purpose plugged our monitoring system into the company network"
<ali1234> "easily done, the ports are like right next to each other"
<diddledan> in unrelated musings. with a bit of cutting and wrenching, the box that RS ship their RasPis in serves as a suitable run-time case once you can get the cables through the bodywork with the aforementioned cutting
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> didn't fancy a cheap cute case?
<diddledan> I fancy a better case, but this gets me up-n-running quickly
<ali1234> all you really need is anonymous to pull a fake terror alert on black friday and you basically have the first half of neuromancer
<MartijnVdS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcDZS7iYNsA
<ali1234> the thing about attacks that disrupt the internet is that they are self-limiting
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: true, but they're still annoying :)
<ali1234> yeah but that's about it for most people
<diddledan> erm, I don't like his representation of IRC being for hackers
<ali1234> why?
<diddledan> are you a hacker?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: have you seen ircnet?
<ali1234> yes.
<diddledan> as in the media representation of hacker
<ali1234> arguably
<diddledan> what would more correctly be termed cracker
<mapps> urgh gonna have to go for a nap in a bit
<mapps> cant stop yawning;/
<ali1234> i have the skills. i just don't use them for evil
<diddledan> but would you consider that IRC is purely for hacker-types?
<ali1234> pretty much that and the occasional newb who wanders in by mistake
<diddledan> lol
<mapps> lol
<MooDoo> hello all
<MooDoo> anyone on ubuntu 14.04 and updated to the latest version?
<diddledan> lol @ that video though, it's an entertaining explanation of the problem
<MooDoo> after the latest update i've no unity :(
<MooDoo> bug 1292396
<lubotu3> bug 1292396 in unity (Ubuntu) "After upgrade Unity session is broken" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1292396
<mapps> will watch the vid in a sec..then its a quick 2-3hr nap for me
<ali1234> "xubuntu user unaffected"
<ali1234> i've got a question: when we get systemd and it's awesome containers, will we finally be able to easily deploy a proper juju cloud on a single dedicated server?
<ali1234> i know you can sort of do it now, but it's not very good...
<MooDoo> ah well looks like i'm not the only one unity is broken for :D
<DJones> I won't bother with todays updates then
<MooDoo> DJones: yeah for my laptop unity won't load at all, just takes you to the desktop wallpaper, you can ctrl-alt-f1 to get a new login or ctrl alt t to get a terminal but that's all ;)
<MooDoo> ah well i'll just update tomorrow, it's no biggy :D
<DJones> Seems to be a few mentions in +1 for that issue as well
<MooDoo> ah well
<MooDoo> it's not really an issue as I can multi boot into *gasp* Windows ;)
<popey> MooDoo: can you login to a guest session?
<MooDoo> popey: ooo not tried hang on let me check
<MooDoo> popey: same result, just takes you to a unity less desktop but you can ctrl alt t to get a terminal
<popey> MooDoo: what video card?
<MooDoo> nvidia but i'm not using any drivers so just default driver that comes with it [not sure]
<popey> as the broken user, does "sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^" pull in any new packages?
<zleap> nv or nuvoux or something
<popey> nouveau
<zleap> yeah
<davmor2> nueveau
<davmor2> close
<diddledan> nouveau - learn french! :-p
<davmor2> diddledan: No :P
<diddledan> roughly translated = modern or new
<zleap> yeag
<diddledan> blarg
<zleap> i did get the beta drivers working though
<zleap> work fine
<MooDoo> popey: 0 upgraded, 963 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
<MooDoo> Need to get 466 MB of archives.
<zleap> ouch
<diddledan> MooDoo: upgrading to 14.04?
<popey> MooDoo: yeah, do that
<MooDoo> diddledan: already am on 14.04
<MooDoo> downloading.
<diddledan> MooDoo: 963 newly installed? what you doing?!
<MooDoo> diddledan: I just apt-get updated download the latest updates to trusty and it's broken unity
<diddledan> aah, does the caret (^) on the end of a package tell apt to install the entire dependency tree again?
<diddledan> if so I'm gonna have to remember that - seems like a great capability
<diddledan> on gentoo the equivalent is `emerge --empty-tree world` aka `emerge -e world` where world means every package currently installed
<diddledan> or rather than currently installed but "previously requested to be installed"
<diddledan> like apt's "manually installed" option vs "automatically installed" to allow for `apt-get autoremove`
<diddledan> I really should unlearn some of my Gentoo knowledge
<Monotoko> 7500th September 1993
<diddledan> o_O
<Monotoko> my Ubuntu box at work seems to have subscribed to the idea of eternal september
<MartijnVdS> Monotoko: lots of noobs on it?
<MooDoo> popey: no dice, but don't worry about it :)  I can wait for updates lol
<popey> MooDoo: did you reboot?
<MooDoo> yeah
<MooDoo> first I pkill'd the user, then rebooted still no unity
<Monotoko> MartijnVdS, could say that - my co-worker tried to "fix" my graphics driver
<Monotoko> so it doesn't even POST
<Monotoko> *now
<MooDoo> popey last think in dmesg is init: Failed to spawn hybrid-gfx main process: unable to execute: No such file or directory not sure if it's related
<davmor2> MooDoo: so you have an optimus gfx card?
<MooDoo> davmor2: no nvidia
<MooDoo> but i'm looking in this file x-0-greeter.log
<MooDoo>  unity-greeter.vala:581: Got a SIGTERM
<MooDoo> ** (unity-settings-daemon:1182): WARNING **: Name taken or bus went away - shutting down
<MooDoo> and hello davmor2 :D
<MartijnVdS> so it.. missed the bus? :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: do lspci | grep VGA
<MooDoo> 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation GT218M [NVS 3100M] (rev a2)
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: you wait for an hour for a bus and then three come along at once
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: yes, tell that to unity
<MooDoo> davmor2: /var/log/lightdm x-0-greeter.log - http://pastebin.com/67y3e1sd
<diddledan> hybrid-gfx suggests it _thinks_ you've got an optimus frankenstein?
<diddledan> really, what idiot thought that optimus was a good idea?
<MooDoo> diddledan: it's a prime name if you ask me ;)
<diddledan> the name is fine, it's the technology that I take issue with
<davmor2> MooDoo: no that is the name of the switching driver
<DJones> diddledan: Seems to work fine for me on 14.04, although I've avoided todays updates after previous comments
<MooDoo> davmor2: I know i was jesting, did you see my pastebin?
<davmor2> MooDoo: I did all gibberish to me :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: did you get any updates at all?
<diddledan> davmor2: you mean double MartijnVdS (dutch)?
<MooDoo> davmor2: ubuntu-desktop all up to date, apt-get update ; dist-upgrade all up to date
<MooDoo> davmor2: lots of people mentioning it in +1
<davmor2> I blame popey
<MooDoo> lol
<ali1234> MooDoo: that log file is only for the login screen
<ali1234> have a look in ~/.cache/upstart
<ali1234> that's where all the session logs go
<MooDoo> (unity-panel-service:1877): Gtk-WARNING **: Cannot create custom menu item of type 'unity.widgets.systemsettings.tablet.accesspoint'
<MooDoo> :)
<ali1234> only a warning...
<ali1234> how long have you been on +1?
<MooDoo> ages, all this has happened since I dist-upgraded earlier on
<ali1234> there was a bug a while back that caused the unity8 preview to get installed when it shouldn't have been
<ali1234> that might possibly be conflicting somehow
<ali1234> it even got installed on my xubuntu somehow
<MooDoo> ali1234: ok thanks, having a play :D
<ali1234> i was like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxRX6LXDpWs
<popey> MooDoo: is unity installed?
<popey> apt-cache policy unity
<DJones> MooDoo: Have a look at this thread on the mailing list https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-uk/2014-March/037420.html
<DJones> MooDoo: Last message in the thread https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-uk/2014-March/037424.html "The problem is in, or associated with,
<DJones> lightdm, but stopping and restarting it made no difference. Currently, I
<DJones> have altered the default desktop manager to gdm.  This works, but I
<DJones> really don't like it!
<DJones> That seems like the same problem
<dogmatic69_> bigcalm: you around?
<davmor2> MooDoo: I've just done a dist-upgrade and everything is good here?
<daubers> Evening
<zenpho> howdy doo
<bashrc> is that a dist-upgrade to trusty?
<daftykins> dist-upgrade doesn't mean going between distros
<daftykins> it means grabbing *all* the latest packages for a given one
<directhex> the difference between upgrade and dist-upgrade is that upgrade will never remove an old package if required by an update to an existing one - let's say you have foo 1.0 which depends on libfoo1, and then an update comes for foo 2.0 which depends on libfoo2 - upgrade will not upgrade you to foo 2.0, but dist-upgrade will
<zenpho> handy to know
<zenpho> i've always been very cautious to experiment with apt actions - i'm nervous about getting into a state where things are broken
<popey> dont use apt then â»
<popey> Software Updater is for you â»
<popey> even though it has a stupid name
<diddledan> does what it say on the tin
<popey> still sounds like a bad shareware app from 20 years ago.
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: I am here now, sup?
<diddledan> aah shareware, how I miss thee
<diddledan> or not
<directhex> doom was shareware.
<directhex> let us not mock shareware
<diddledan> now it's open source
<popey> i am not mocking shareware
<zenpho> archive.org has a huge collection of shovelware-shareware now
<popey> i am mocking software updater and _bad_ shareware
<diddledan> my favourite shareware used to be getright
<popey> kde also always makes me think of cover disks from the past
<popey> oh blimey
<directhex> i used getright!
<popey> I'd forgotten getright!
<zenpho> or was that textfiles.com - i forget... very interesting to browse thru
<popey> i used that to grab mame roms back in uh...1997
<directhex> best way to download half-life patchs when your modem disconnected every 120 minutes
<popey> maybe?
<daftykins> i still own getright :D
<daftykins> got it installed right now in fact
<diddledan> popey: not so much mame, but I used it around the same era
<directhex> think i used it to grab beos 5 personal edition too
<popey> i used to download stuff and put it on zip disks â»
<popey> connected via parallel port
<daftykins> D:
<diddledan> zip disks?! wow
<daftykins> haha
<zenpho> was "paint shop pro" shareware?
<daftykins> with the crazy printer passthrough
<diddledan> I wasn't aware anybody ever used those
<popey> i had 3!
<popey> one was onboard ide
<popey> an external parallel (for taking to work) and a scsi one
<daftykins> i had a client that backed up to them but the drive died eventually
 * popey looks for a photo
<popey> click-death
<zenpho> I think I still have a jaz drive - successor to zip drive - used it a lot with my Akai sampler
<directhex> scsi was best
<diddledan> I'm trying to remember the name of the competitor to zip
<directhex> the parallel zip didn't work if you also had a parallel scanner and parallel printer
<directhex> diddledan, ls120
<popey> My first CD burner was a 2x SCSI one
<popey> sat under my display
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> was more like removable hdd iirc
<diddledan> rather than tape
<directhex> iomega had a super cheap scsi card, the zip zoom, for scsi zip drives
<directhex> zip+zoom was basically plug & play compared to parallel nightmare
<diddledan> aah, maybe it was syquest
<daftykins> iomega had jaz zdrives too right?
<daftykins> *jazz
<zenpho> i think just one z
<diddledan> daftykins: yeah, zip and jazz were both iomega things
<directhex> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cc/Iomega_jaz-2-GB-Laufwerk_01_KMJ.jpg
<diddledan> and, according to wiki it is only one Z, as zenpho suggests
<directhex> media was like Â£100 though
<popey> http://imgur.com/I9kXAla
<popey> so much crap tech in that picture from my den
<daftykins> ah, i did write it with one then put a second in the wrong place
<popey> old sony laptop, pcmcia network card, old 486 dell
<popey> and a cat
<daftykins> the cat is not crap tech :(
<daftykins> admittedly he or she was only running on 4 paws at the time
<diddledan> teh kittie is totally cute-tech, no?
<daftykins> *ba-dum-tish*
<diddledan> imgur collects the most cruddiest crud of the whole internet according to the "today's best images" list
<popey> http://imgur.com/R5Ng7ID
<popey> â»
<zenpho> daftykins: two drums and a cymbal fall down the stairs.... ba-dum-tish ;o)
<bigcalm> `.`
<diddledan> zenpho: is that a Tim Vine?
<bigcalm> popey: is that RMS on the t-shirt?
<popey> yes
<zenpho> probably yes - it's terrible but kinda clever - hallmark of Tim Vine
<daftykins> zenpho: :D
<bigcalm> popey: and what's happened to your hair?!
<diddledan> and what are you doing to that poor goat?
<popey> http://imgur.com/tyemeS6
<popey> my pc circa 1999
<popey> scsi cd burner...
<diddledan> it doesn't like me
<popey> of all the things in that picture, the only thing I still have, and is on my desk right now, is the stapler
<diddledan> the image is broke :-(
<daftykins> omg my 1996 pentium 1 dan had those speakers!
<popey> â»
<daftykins> also, don't you guys find split level desks the spawn of satan?
<popey> yes
<daftykins> :D
<popey> binned that one 10 years ago
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> and another cat no less!
<daftykins> popey: but *gasp* - Windows!
<diddledan> xfce?
<diddledan> erm
<popey> hah
<diddledan> fvwm
<popey> yeah
<popey> i didnt move to linux till well after that
<diddledan> I new it was an acronym
<popey> http://imgur.com/qEo8ZST
<popey> pretty sure that Dan PC has a zip drive
<popey> above the floppy
<popey> oh, i still have that bin â»
<diddledan> that looks like a zip on the left of the pc and in the base-unit a cdrom drive which required the cd in a caddy
<daftykins> cat -> mouse
<diddledan> plus, two PC under the desk FTW!
<diddledan> I've got a similar setup right now (2 pc under the desk)
<daftykins> popey: is that a black US Robotics modem atop the zip?
<popey> yes
<daftykins> :O!
<popey> oh, the zip is in that one too
<popey> scsi, daisy chained off the cdrom
<popey> which I had to not breathe near when burning
<diddledan> I've still got a 56k modem around here somtplace
<daftykins> :>
<directhex> giant altec lansing speakers
<diddledan> s/t/e/
<diddledan> popey: are both of those palm pdas?
<popey> ya
<popey> Palm 5000 and Palm IIIx
<popey> used to love them
<popey> â¹
<diddledan> two because: batteries?
<diddledan> or was one superceding?
<popey> yeah
<popey> i used to use it to read books before ebook readers were cool
<diddledan> lol
<popey> i read and re read HHGTTG while rocking sophie to bed
<popey> which is 4 years after this pic
<diddledan> there's loads of awesome old tech in that pic
<diddledan> aah nostalgia
<daftykins> :)
<diddledan> netgear switches haven't changed in design... at all.
<daftykins> i'm really looking forward to setting up this Lenovo X240 for my client
<daftykins> love my Netgear GS108 \o/
<diddledan> I want a T model
<daftykins> i use more than 8 ports though :(
<diddledan> smart
<diddledan> I'm currently using 17 ethernet ports from my router + switches which includes the port on the router to the modem
<diddledan> so 16 LANny ones
<daftykins> crikey, that's a fair chunk more than me
<daftykins> all that for only you or a shared place? :)
<directhex> i have a gs116 but am not using many ports
<diddledan> they're not all in the same segment though - I've segregated at least 3 from my lan to separate subnets/vlans
<daftykins> directhex: they're two 8s joined aren't they?
<diddledan> all for me :-D
<daftykins> O_O what are all those devices? D:
<directhex> daftykins, probably. you know that's why usb hubs are either 4 ports or 7 ports, right? 2x4 ports, with one plugged into the other internally
<diddledan> no idea :-p
<daftykins> directhex: i consider USB hubs an abomination
<diddledan> I've got 1xRPi (onion router), 2xAP (wifi) 3xSwitch (using 3 ports on the router so they can potentially be discounted from the total) then I have 1xNAS PC, 1xXenServer PC, 1xPC I want to do something with but haven't decided what,, 1xRPi NTPd, 1xRPI ???, and 3 which don't seem to be illuminated right now
<diddledan> not sure what the others are
<diddledan> aah, 1xOpenReach Fibre-to-the-cab modem
<diddledan> so I'm unaccounted for 3 connections?
<diddledan> don't you love when you have no idea what "that ethernet cable" or "that screw" goes to?!
<diddledan> aah, forgot the most obvious. the 1xMAC that I'm talking to you with
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> pics!
<diddledan> you'll have to remind me in a while, I've just put my battery on to charge so I can take a photo
<daftykins> :>
<diddledan> wait.. google+ auto backup for mac tells me that uploading photos with a maximum dimension of 2048px doesn't use any drive quota - i.e. the uploader says "unlimited storage at 2048px"
<daftykins> ah-har
<daftykins> my Nexus 4 just this second started offering me some kinda backup
<diddledan> lol, I just got notified that an uploaded photo of mine of a christmas tree had an "auto awesome" effect applied that makes the lights twinkle
<diddledan> on google+
<ali1234> i think i saw that, or one like it
<Azelphur> Is there anything handy I can get that just puts my phone in my file browser, over wifi?
<bigcalm> Azelphur: airdroid is good but not in your file browser and it's for Android
<Azelphur> yea that's what I've been using, it's just a pain to scan the QR code every time, would much rather have it all ready to go in the file browser
<bigcalm> I wonder if you could set up a samba server on your phone
<Azelphur> I know you can get ssh, but I imagine it wouldn't handle reconnects well
<bigcalm> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.icecoldapps.sambaserver
<bigcalm> Just search for samba server
<bigcalm> Lots out there
<bigcalm> All appear to need the device rooted
<Azelphur> fun, I guess that could work, i still don't think nautilus will handle reconnects well
<bigcalm> Sleep now
#ubuntu-uk 2014-03-15
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/elmz7cdq9mwiz7p/VID_20140315_004248.mp4
<daftykins> classic Worms 2
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5CjldZLXiAU
<daftykins> diddledan: gimme a waffle
<diddledan> does anyone know what the difference is between netgear prosafe plus switches and netgear prosafe smart switches?
<mapp> hey
<shauno_> diddledan: plus are unmanaged?
<shauno_> ooh, timestamps.  oops
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<mapp> morning all
<mapp> hey brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning mapp
<mapp> any plans for today pal
<brobostigon> yes, need to get a new watchstrap for my pebble, the rubber watchstrap that came with it, irritates my eczema sometimes.
<mapp> ah
<mapp> never used a pebble
<MartijnVdS> I never used a watch 8-)
<brobostigon> mapp: they are very well known, but certainly here, not that many people have them.
<bashrc> I had fancy watches in the 1980s.  The novelty soon wore off
<bashrc> today I will be mostly attempting to install ubuntu touch
<mapp> cool
<mapp> on what8
<bashrc> mapp: on nexus 4
<bashrc> first I need to install ubuntu on a netbook and then use that to flash the phone
<foobarry> morning
<bashrc> morning
<foobarry> doing a dist-upgrade ..500MB phew
<foobarry> too many apps
<mapp> gah
<mapp> cant stop sneezing..horrid hayfever i guess
<mapp> bashrc nexus4 is that a phone?
<mapp> morning foobarry
<popey> bpip pip
<popey> bashrc: you can flash it without ubuntu
<foobarry> just checking out my swag from yesterdays tech show
<foobarry> prob 40 pens, 5 foam balls, coasters, sweets, gym bags, a lunch cool bag, some mugs, an led lenser torch and an iluv speaker
<mapp> whered you go
<foobarry> insight show @ billinsgate
<foobarry> i got scanned a lot though so i will be spammed relentlessly
<mapp> you went tothe fish market?
<mapp> :D
<mapp> had to googlw billinsgate heh
<foobarry> got the most awesome torch i've ever seen
<foobarry> scared to look directly at it
<mapp> hmm
<mapp> WOK
<mapp> 20:12
<mapp> SOT
<mapp> 23:06
<mapp> 2hr54
<foobarry> woking/
<mapp> next one arrives 01;20 didnt even know they run that late
<mapp> yes
<foobarry> do u drive?
<mapp> nope
<foobarry> shame, prob a quick journey
<mapp> else id drive back:)
<foobarry> SOT southampton?
<mapp> stoke on trent
<foobarry> ah
<mapp> wonder why the 23;06 train takes an hr longer
<mapp> must stop somewhere
<foobarry> my mate studied there, went to some parties in the 90s
<mapp> ah no doesnt leave euston till 22;50
<mapp> one things for sure i bet id get a whole carriage to myself
<mapp> last time i got a train at like 8pm i had an entire coach to myself!!
<Lee_> I need some help. Anybody online?
<mapp> yes
<MartijnVdS> !ask
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<Lee_> I'm new, so didn't know that. I'm installing Ubuntu as I type and I have accidentally enabled the assistive techs. Any way to disable it?
<mapp> not even sure what that is O_o
<Lee_> Screen Reader and High Contrast options are turned on. How do I disable them? I can't access the system settings as Ubuntu is being installed.
<mapp> ah
<mapp> id just wait then must be a way once installed
<Lee_> Okay. This is really annoying, btw.
<mapp> sec will google
<MartijnVdS> Lee_: in the control panel (top right -> system settings) you can turn it off again
<mapp> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1236545
<Lee_> There are no system settings or control panel. I have two icons at top-right, ascessibility and network.
<mapp> If you can manage to click on the applet in the notification area, click it, open the preferences and uncheck the checkboxes.
<Lee_> What applet?
<mapp> im not sure sorry ;/ maybe wait till its installed
<Lee_> Sure. Thanks for trying. :p
<bashrc> netbook install is progressing.  The first thing I do is go to privacy and turn off web results.  I don't want to send all my searches to Mark Shuttleworth - no matter how nice he may be
<Lee_> Why are so many people online in this chat channel when they don't have anything to ask and neither they are helping.
<bashrc> I set up a daemon which is more or less permanently logged in
<mapp> a place to hang out Lee_
<bashrc> the advantage is that you can see earlier conversations
<mapp> easier to stay than go and come back imo
<Lee_> We can?
<mapp> ya
<Lee_> Installed 92%
<Lee_> If this is a place to hang out, why isn't anyone chatting? Is there a was to send private messages?
<mapp> yea pm someone
<mapp> and its the weekend
<mapp> people have families and stuff to do
<Lee_> Then why are they online?
<Lee_> They're using a software or something?
<Lee_> I'm using a website called webchat.freenode.net instead of an IRC client.
<mapp> yea
<mapp> using irc clients..applications
<awilkins> Noob nilgroks concept of lurking
<bashrc> is nilgrok in the Jargon File ?
<mapp> whats that?
<mapp> O_o
<bashrc> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jargon_File
<bashrc> http://www.jargondb.org/glossary/nil
<bashrc> example: "she nilgrokked the gonkulator"
<bashrc> installation complete
<bashrc> when flashing ubuntu touch how long does it take?
<mapps> ask Knightwise he was trying it yesteday
<mapps> not sure how far he gt
<mapps> got
<popey> bashrc: which device?
<popey> what state is the device in right now and how are you flashing it
<bashrc> ah, seems to be going now.  I hadn't unlocked the bootloader
<bashrc> popey: nexus 4
<bashrc> obtained specially for the purpose of running ubuntu touch
<daftykins> D:
<popey> nice
<bashrc> I wanted to see what it's like and maybe try developing apps
<popey> daftykins: http://imgur.com/gallery/DfeEkgC
<popey> bashrc: we have #ubuntu-touch for phone chat where many of the devs hang out and #ubuntu-app-devel where app devs hang out fyi
<bashrc> ok
<daftykins> popey: :D
<popey> better â»
<daftykins> i was rather briefly expressing my shock at the obtaining of a Nexus solely to play with Touch
<daftykins> bashrc: was it second hand? are they going quite cheap now?
<bashrc> daftykins: yes second hand.  It had German language Android 4.2 on it
<daftykins> ah-har
<bashrc> do the channels exist simultaneously or do you have to flash seperate ones?
<popey> you choose which channel and stay on it
<popey> I recommend the devel (trusty) channel
<bashrc> ok
<popey> I have 3 devices here, one always devel, one always devel-proposed and one I flash daily to muck about with
<bashrc> devel-proposed is the latest git/bzr?
<popey> devel-proposed is latest, but will break now and then
<bashrc> ok
<popey> its a bit broken today because we just landed qt5.2
<popey> will be fixed next week
<popey> we generate an image every day, often twice or more a day
<bashrc> release early and often :)
<popey> the QA dashboard shows how well or badly they test http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/smokeng/trusty/touch/
<popey> indeed
<popey> i should record my intro video for my google helpouts
<popey> need to watch a few more to get inspiration
<daftykins> #ubuntu does seem to be getting more potential users wandering in
<daftykins> for the time being funneling them off to -touch is the only thing to do, be neat if they had some easily available 'dummys guide intro' though
<daftykins> not that i've even googled to see if such a thing exists already :>
<popey> dummies guide to what? using or installing?
<daftykins> either
<daftykins> although i suppose publicising flashing devices could get pretty hairy :D
<popey> we have docs for flashing, but not using
<popey> as that changes over time
<bashrc> installed
<bashrc> my first impression is that from a visual design point of view this looks nicer than android
<daftykins> ;)
<bashrc> multitouch works well
<bashrc> ah the dreaded facebook
<bashrc> one fairly critical app for me would be keepassx, or something equivalent.  Otherwise all my passwords are just long random strings
<bashrc> heh, my guess is that Friendica doesn't recognise whatever browser ubuntu touch uses.  It's using something like greek language
<popey> bashrc: port it â»
<bashrc> the friendica thing is a bug with Friendica, just because ubuntu touch is new
<bashrc> keepassx might be worth porting
<daftykins> popey: my feet are a pillow apparently https://www.dropbox.com/s/xee6nhp7sgif7aw/IMG_20140315_141905.jpg
<popey> 4awww
<popey> -
<popey> bashrc: i can imagine others enjoying a port of keepassx
<popey> you know we have an app showdown running?
<popey> http://developer.ubuntu.com/2014/02/announcing-the-latest-ubuntu-app-showdown-contest/
<bashrc> another think I notice on friendica is that the browser keeps complaining about my untrusted certificate.  Is there any way to turn ssl warnings off?
<popey> not that I'm aware of yet
<popey> the browser is going to change soon as we switch to oxide i think
<bashrc> what browser is it using currently?
<popey> our own one based on webkit
<popey> http://launchpad.net/webbrowser-app
<bashrc> so.  Is there a terminal app for ubuntu touch yet?
<bashrc> or can I ssh into the phone?
<popey> bashrc: both
<popey> bashrc: http://popey.com/~alan/phablet/device-2014-03-15-153524.png
<popey> (tablet on side)
<ali1234> popey: does webbrowser-app have ad blocking?
<ali1234> yesterday i had to install adblock plus on my tablet because nearly all webpages are serving android malware through ads these days
<ali1234> had a quick go with firefox but it is so buggy as to be unusable
<brobostigon> ok, i got my measuring alittle wrong, my new pebble watchstrap is a few mm off on the smaller side, will it still work and no do any damage?
<ali1234> plus it doesn't support intents properly
<popey> ali1234: not at the moment, no
<DJones> I bet czajkowski was just about to string the video ref up if he'd allowed that try
<daftykins> ali1234: adblock edge > adblock plus
<daftykins> http://qph.is.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-71f844678379ca13e8a9c6556bac78b4?convert_to_webp=true
<daftykins> hehehe
<popey> hah
<foobarry> http://theverybesttop10.com/2014/03/15/cardboard-cat-art/#Caturday
<foobarry> worth getting a cat for this alone
<mapps> just started watching arrow
<mapps> ;[
<mapps> ;] even
<ali1234> directhex: how much does datacentre electricity cost compared to residential?
<ali1234> (or anyone else with experience)
<ali1234> shauno maybe?
<penguin42> ali1234: Hmm from which point
<penguin42> ali1234: The cost to someone buying a server or the cost to the datacentre owner?
<ali1234> the cost to the datacentre owner
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: considering moving to an airconditioned data floor? ;)
<ali1234> or the rate someone would get if they owned more than half the machines in the datacentre
<penguin42> ali1234: I'm not sure but you might be able to find those rates - I guess some industrial tarriff
<ali1234> it's gonna be cheaper though, right?
<penguin42> ali1234: I assume so, but I think they're under odd contracts - like you contract to buy so many MW in advance
<ali1234> https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/international-industrial-energy-prices
<shauno> it tends to run cheaper just because it's predictable.  providers hate spikey customers.  but I don't know numbers
<ali1234> i don't need exact figures, just ballpark :)
<ali1234> those spreadsheets appear to be horribly broken
<penguin42> interesting - you should be putting your data centre in Belgium
<penguin42> ali1234: Works here
<ali1234> must be gnumeric then
<penguin42> ali1234: LibreOffice was OK with it
<penguin42> ali1234: I went for the quarterly industrial small/medium/large one
<ali1234> same
<penguin42> ali1234: Don't forget the data centre has a lot of per/kW provision extra costs - cooling adds about 1/3rd in energy usage, UPS adds some, generator provision etc
<directhex> ali1234, it's hard to calulate exact numbers, as it's hard to separate out the cost of electiricty, the cost of cooling, the cost of general estates charges
<ali1234> it has to be more efficient though, or nobody would do it :)
<shauno> cooling's awesome.  every watt you stick into a computer, you spend another watt moving the heat
<directhex> ali1234, the efficiency comes from the cooling
<directhex> shauno, we had about 2:1 on compute:cooling power consumption
<directhex> with air
<penguin42> shauno: The aircon systems aren't that efficient, even before you start having to add resilience against one failing
<penguin42> shauno: Of course american air con systems, for every watt you stick into your computer, you get some number of BTU out, and then need so many tonne of cooling - madness
<shauno> I'm not sure we take enough credit for that ;)
<MartijnVdS> British Thermal Units?
 * zenpho dances around the room to skin tight by the ohio players ;o)
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Nod, we never use them
<shauno> btu are actually pretty logical, once you assume the rest of the 'standard' system
<MartijnVdS> so are Watts
<ali1234> well wikipedia says that BTU is a measurement of energy
<ali1234> but watt is a measurement of power
<penguin42> ali1234: Right, but I think you actually measure your computers in kWh not kW
<ali1234> nah, i measure mine in kW
<shauno> btu is closest to kcal in metric.  1 pound of water by 1 degree F, vs 1 kilo of water by 1 degree C
<daftykins> foreignheit :(
<shauno> but we never see thermal calories used, just cocacola calories, so it sounds guanocrazy
<shauno> (which is btu will drive penguin42 crazy.  they're not just using weird units.  they're measuring different things)
<ali1234> 1 kcal = slightly less than 4 BTU
<ali1234> 1 kilojoule = slightly more than 1 BTU
<shauno> reminds me, I managed to prove a customer wrong by invoking the laws of physics :)
<penguin42> shauno: Right so watt is energy/time like kWh is
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> kWh per hour is a measurement of power - also known as watts :)
<ali1234> kilowatts sorry :)
<shauno> (they were adamant we were blocking them at our network, because their packet trace showed our IP on the ack/rst packet.  I pointed out the same capture showed they were getting the RST returned in <1ms.  they're in singapore, we're in paris.  unpossible!)
<zenpho> triangu-location via timestamps - love it!
 * zenpho_ is away
<shauno> just nice to spot the tiny details :)  <1ms is almost guaranteed to be their network.  but with this one being in singapore, the speed of light says it isn't us
<mapps> cant wait for may 5th..24s back:D
<ali1234> you know it's going to suck
<ali1234> shows always do when they get brought back
<directhex> 24 is still just neocon porn, right? HERO WHITE MAN TORTURES RAGHEADS UNTIL THEY TELL HIM HOW TO DEFUSE THE BOMB
<directhex> in lighter news, i have my first successful install/boot of Ye Olde rebuilt against valve's iso images rather than an ancient zip installer
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> directhex: just let us know when there's a torrent to seed :>
<directhex> daftykins, ta :)
<directhex> i have a radeon 4000 in the mail. i intend to fix that limitation & allow non-fglrx
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> ooh, a legacy beast eh
<daftykins> two birds with one stone?
<directhex> ok. so i'm at the very least back where i started
<directhex> i had to revert one updated package for now, as it breaks the install
<directhex> bed for now. next week i'm off, looking after the wife. should have time to verify that mdraid works, also dmraid and lvm
<directhex> and install from usb as well as dvd
<mapps> lol directhex
<mapps> and ali1234 maybe but im hoping itll be good and not a complete let down
<directhex> basically, testing up the wazoo. i think there's a dmraid bug in debian
<directhex> i can work around it in post_install though. but testtesttesttest
<directhex> wish i had a testing pc for this :/
<daftykins> hmm my samsung smart TV is running a web server but all it displays is a 404 :>
<daftykins> directhex: missus ok?
<directhex> daftykins, scheduled surgery next week
<directhex> daftykins, DLNA runs on http
<daftykins> ah-har
<daftykins> oh right, hrmm
#ubuntu-uk 2014-03-16
<daftykins> diddledan: camera! D:
<mapps> morning
<MooDoo> morning
<mapps> fell asleep at 12!!
<mapps> so early for me :)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<mapps> morning bigcalm
<mapps> arrows pretty good
<directhex> who wants to re-do the website for Ye Olde SteamOSe for free? :D
<bigcalm> directhex: you sound like some of my past clients :(
<directhex> yeah, but none of them are as sexy as me
<directhex> i'll get it done this week
<directhex> by the end of wednesday i plan to have a release which supports raid (fakeraid and mdraid), lvm, ntfs resizing, and pre-5000-series radeons, none of which work with valve steamos
<mapps> steamOSe?
<directhex> under its new name, but yes
<bigcalm> "directhex's better version of SteamOs" catchy
<bigcalm> I see there's a sale on Rockstar Games. In preparation for the PC release of GTA V?
<bigcalm> Journey of a Roach is now on Linux!
 * bigcalm bounces off to play some
<Knightwise> morning everyone
<mapps> morning Knightwise
<mapps> did you get ubuntu touch on the nexus7 in the end?
<directhex> what the hell? why can't i install win7 in vmware?
<MartijnVdS> directhex: because Microsoft hates you
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<directhex> man i'm hungry
<brobostigon> brekkie?
<directhex> grr, locked up again. wtf?
<directhex> i'll try in BIOS
<mapps> wheres it get stuck
<directhex> i'll try 8.1 in UEFI
<directhex> mapps, "completing installation"
<bashrc> I am now a Windows free zone
<directhex> frozen in BIOS too :/
<bashrc> I did have windows 8 dual boot on my laptop until a few months ago but accidentally deleted it during a 13.10
<mapps> UEFI vm!?
<directhex> sure
<directhex> i'll try w/ virtual scsi instead of virtual sata
<directhex> nope. jesus
<brobostigon> sunday beer day down the pub i reckon, nice and sunny and warm out.
<penguin42> rather grey up here
<brobostigon> :(
<penguin42> we had 3 or four really nice days early in the week and by Friday I'm back to the heavier coat
<brobostigon> ah,
<jussi> beer!
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> i think il just get a sandwich from sainsburys no drink today
<mapps> :)
<mapps> overdone it recently!
<jussi> mapps: awww... you should have one for me, shop is 4km away and Ive no car...
<mapps> yea i have to walk 15mins to the shop;p
<mapps> but i figure a walk wont hurt its ok weather
<jussi> yeah, a walk is always good
<czajkowski> DJones: it was an epic game :D
<DJones> czajkowski: Finished celebrating yet?
<czajkowski> DJones: been so sick all weekend
<czajkowski> was all I could do to watch the matches on the couch with my duvet tbh
<DJones> Oh dear
<czajkowski> fell into bed after we won
<DJones> That puts a downer on it, hopefully you felt better afterwards though
<czajkowski> hopefully
<czajkowski> cannot get my temp down :(
 * penguin42 has had a bit of a cold for the last day or so - feels a lot better today fortunately
<bashrc> czajkowski: sounds distinctly unpleasant
<mapps> watched 10eps of arrow in 2 days:)
<aquarius_> hey, people. A networking question. I have two Ubuntu machines; one wired only, one wired & wireless. There is a wifi network available. I want to connect the w+w machine to wifi, connect w+w to wired-only over ethernet cable,and have wired-only be able to see the internet via the wired network
<aquarius_> I thinkthis needs bridging or something,but I don't understand it.
<aquarius_> w+w is running maverick whichdoes not help.:)
<StevenR> aquarius_: it really depends how much control you have over the wireless side
<aquarius_> StevenR: control?
<StevenR> yup. depends how much configuration control you have over the wireless side, and what it's capable of
<StevenR> you've basically got three options, NAT, routing or bridging.
<aquarius_> i can configure it w#hoever you want :)
<aquarius_> *however
<StevenR> bridging is simple, but depends on the wireless router/AP being OK with two IPs on the same MAC address (probably fine)
<StevenR> so, you just need to use brctl to build a bridge
<aquarius_> ok, what do I do? (I don't understand this stuff!)
<StevenR> aquarius_: run brctl
<StevenR> it's a terminal command
<aquarius_> as root?
<StevenR> no
<aquarius_> (well, with sudo)
<StevenR> (not yet)
<aquarius_> ok, it lists subcommands
<StevenR> ok, so add a bridge called br0 and then add your wired and wireless interfaces to it (you might break your networking when you do this)
<aquarius_> ok, will try
<AlanBell> cosmos time shortly :)
<aquarius_> I have a br0 already from trying to follow other guides :)
<StevenR> aquarius_: pastebin the output of brctl show then
<bigcalm> How does one update a factoid in lubotu3?
<aquarius_> bridge name	bridge id		STP enabled	interfaces br0		8000.000fb0c12c05	no		eth0
<StevenR> aquarius_: use a pastebin please
<aquarius_> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7103715/
<daftykins> another fine ride on the south cliffs today
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/x4n77vp7rb9123a/MGPDBthSjg
<StevenR> aquarius_: ok, so eth0 is your wired interface?
<bigcalm> !rat
<lubotu3> rat is The Real Ale Train. A yearly Ubuntu UK loco event to celebrate friends, trains and ale. Saturday 2nd Augurt 2014 Hampshire, UK: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2745-real-ale-train-2014/
<aquarius_> StevenR: yep. On w+w, eth0 is the wired IF, configured static on 192.16.27.1 in /etc/network/interfaces, and wlan0 is the wireless IF, run by network manager and connected to the wifi network. dhcpd is running on eth0. On wired-only, eth0 is the wired IF, which has a dhcp address from w+w, and they can ping one another
<daftykins> sounds alright
<daftykins> although not sure you need to use a second class C subnet if you're bridging
<aquarius_> I do not really understand that except in general terms :)
<daftykins> i won't step on StevenR's toes as he's mid-process :)
<StevenR> aquarius_: what is the wireless IP address on w+w ?
<aquarius_> StevenR: 10.48.32.19
<aquarius_> accordingto ifconfig
<daftykins> you'd need to edit the route table of your router for your setup to work without NAT on the w+w machine
<aquarius_> daftykins: I have no router. (The wifi network is not mine; it's a BT Fon network.)
<daftykins> you fiend!
<StevenR> aquarius_: ok, so forget about dhcpd on the wired side of w+w
<aquarius_> StevenR: ok
<aquarius_> daftykins: I'm paying for a day pass; I'mnot stealing it!
<daftykins> :D
<aquarius_> StevenR: so I should just configure wired-only to have a static ip for eth0 in network-manager?
<aquarius_> actually I'll stop guessing and just do what I'm told :)
<StevenR> in a bridging scenario, eth0 doesn't actually need an IP
<StevenR> turn off dhcpd, add your wireless adaptor to the bridge and see if it works
<aquarius_> StevenR: by "turn off dhcpd",  I should just /etc/init.d/dhcpd  stop, or actually uninstall it and restart networking?
<StevenR> dhcpd stop
<aquarius_> ok, dhcpd stopped
<StevenR> so, add wireless to the bridge
<aquarius_> $ brctl addif br0 wlan0 can't add wlan0 to bridge br0: Operation not permitted
<StevenR> verify both interfaces are part of the bridge, and then, restart networking on wired only and see what happens
<StevenR> sudo
<aquarius_> (on two lines)
<aquarius_> same error with sudo
<StevenR> hmmm
<StevenR> ok....
<StevenR> might need to remove the IP addresses from wlan0 and use dhcp client on br0 to get access
<StevenR> daftykins: thoughts?
<daftykins> no direct experience with brctl i'm afraid, i'd suspect it could be network manager holding one or either though?
<StevenR> good point
<StevenR> not sure how to get around that
<daftykins> when i've seen bridge configs in the past, they seem to all have to edit the interfaces file to specify the IP settings on the bridge interface instead of the real interfaces?
<StevenR> yes, that's the way I do it
<daftykins> not sure how that'd work with wireless though, at least it's probably unencrypted
<aquarius_> I'm open to suggestions?
<daftykins> mind you, isn't network manager meant to handle bridging pretty easily these days?
<StevenR> daftykins: maverick
<aquarius_> daftykins: it does but this machine is maverick :(
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> apparently you might need to stop network-manager before you run the above command to add wlan0 to the bridge
<daftykins> then you can start it again afterwards
<daftykins> bear in mind that that's going to disconnect you between
<aquarius_> ok
<aquarius_> I'll trythat
<aquarius_> will likely disappear :)
<daftykins> hmm there's talk that the entire task just isn't do-able
<aquarius_> back
<aquarius_> (can yousee me?)
<daftykins> yep
<aquarius_> stopped NM, tried adding, same "not supported" error, restarted nm
<popey> i use bridging on my home server
<popey> but not the same way you do
<popey> but I agree that you should maintain /etc/network/interfaces and not use nm
<daftykins> http://cartesianproduct.wordpress.com/2011/06/11/wired-to-wireless-bridge-in-ubuntu-linux/
<aquarius_> daftykins: I readthat, tried it, didn't work, gotconfused
<MooDoo> evening all
<daftykins> mm-hmm, anymore detail available for 'didn't work' ? :)
<daftykins> hi \o
<daftykins> how doyoudomoodoo? :>
<MooDoo> :)
<aquarius_> daftykins: well, Idon't know enough to even comment. It didn't seem to bridge things, perhaps?
<aquarius_> but maybe it did and the problem was elsewhere. Idon't know :(
<daftykins> is this a limited-time scenario?
<daftykins> as otherwise i'd say get a dongle and be done with it
<aquarius_> only need it up for a week
<aquarius_> then brodband arrives
<daftykins> technically we probably shouldn't be offering any help on any EOL distros
<popey> yeah, upgrade you luddite â»
<aquarius_> popey: I'm on someone else's wifi, generously offered. Upgrading wouldbe very much unfairbandwidth.
<ali1234> aquarius_: what you want to do has been possible with network manager for a long time
<ali1234> i mean as far back as like 10.04 at least
<aquarius_> from reading,it's been possible in pure NM since 13.04
<ali1234> no it's MUCH older than that
<ali1234> you don't even need to mess around with config file
<aquarius_> ali1234: if you can tell me how to do it in nm that's great; I'm on 10.10.
<ali1234> i have an image somewhere that shows how to do it
<ali1234> hold on...
<directhex> blurg. dmraid /o\
<ali1234> http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/htc/Screenshot-6.png
<aquarius_> ali1234: there is no Edit Connections menu item
<ali1234> it's now called "Edit"
<ali1234> so in that screenshot, eth0 is my internet uplink, configured as you normally would
<aquarius_> no. There isn't one at all.
<ali1234> then you are not using network manager
<diddledan> ali1234: are you sure that's for bridging and not NAT?
<ali1234> it's for NAT
<ali1234> there is no need for bridging
<diddledan> yeah, aquarius_ was asking for bridging
<aquarius_> I am using NM, and there's no Edit or Edit Connections option, I promise.
<popey> aquarius_: wat
<ali1234> diddledan: "have wired-only be able to see the internet via the wired network" - this will do that
<ali1234> if you don't control the router then you will be behind NAT anyway, so double NAT will have literally no drawbacks
<ali1234> aquarius_: show a screenshot pls
<diddledan> wow, Meerkat went EOL almost 2 years ago
<diddledan> that must be an ancient install :-)
<ali1234> incidentally, that screenshot is done with 10.04, which is still supported. just sayin'
<ali1234> actually is that true?
<ali1234> was it 3 or 5 years?
<diddledan> desktop was 3 IIRC
<diddledan> server was 5
<ali1234> N-M is used on server.....
<diddledan> was that a typo?
<diddledan> is vs isn't?
<ali1234> okay, N-M was used on server in 10.04
<ali1234> i remember everyone complaining about it
<diddledan> really? I didn't recall that
<ali1234> it's part of the reason why i have that screen shot
<diddledan> I guess I just configured around it
<diddledan> i.e. putting entries in /etc/network/interfaces for my servers so that NM didn't hook them
<aquarius_> ali1234: http://postimg.org/image/5068ljnxb/ is screenshot
<ali1234> why does it say "device not managed"
<aquarius_> because eth0 isin /etc/network/interfaces with astatic ip#
<ali1234> what happens if you run nm-connection-editor?
<aquarius_> ali1234: aha!
<aquarius_> right, that's encouraging
<ali1234> so, you want to undo all your config changes, set up the wifi connection normally, and then for the wired connection do what the screenshot shows
<ali1234> and that's it. it will just work
<aquarius_> nice
<ali1234> you might need to install dnsmasq if it isn't already
<aquarius_> tryingthat
<ali1234> that handles dhcp on the wired network, gives your other machine it's IP
<ali1234> it will be a NAT connection but as you only have control over these two machines that isn't a problem
<ali1234> also bridging and wifi do not mix well
<daftykins> for reference: spaghetti bolognese with tabasco sauce on the bolognese sauce = much improved \o/
<diddledan> what problems are supposed to be present when you bridge wifi?
<daftykins> Gandalf shows up and tells the packet they shall not pass, afaik
<diddledan> just I've never had an issue that I recall
<diddledan> not that I've done it often
<daftykins> diddledan: is the camera still on charge? :>
<diddledan> ooh
<aquarius__> ali1234: ok, have undoneother stuff (I think), andmarked wired connection as shared
<diddledan> it's done
<ali1234> diddledan: reflections
<aquarius__> now I get acycle of "Auto eth0 Connection established" and "Wired network Disconnected" notify-osd popups
<aquarius__> and the wiredconnection on wired-only is not connected
<ali1234> on which machine?
<aquarius__> ali1234: on w+w
<aquarius__> (perhaps I misunderstood instructions? I didn't do anything at all on wired-only)
<ali1234> do you have a cross over cable or at least one of the machines has auto sensing?
<diddledan> do they still make interfaces without MDI-X?
<ali1234> when you say a cycle, do you mean it just keeps showing the two messages forever?
<aquarius__> ali1234: well, earlier I had dhcp running on eth0 on w+w and then wired-only did connect and they could ping one another, so I believethat one or both ends have autosensing
<ali1234> ok
<ali1234> did you disable all that?
<ali1234> i mean really all of it
<aquarius__> I *think* so
<ali1234> the instructions are for a vanilla setup
<aquarius__> but maybe I did not; I'velosttrack a little of all the changed things
<ali1234> network manager will start the dhcp server for you and set up all the routing
<aquarius__> only lo isin /etc/network/interfaces
<aquarius__> dhcpd is not running
<ali1234> it uses dnsmasq
<aquarius__> (ya; I stopped the dhcpd I was running earlier, is whatI  meant)
<aquarius__> dnsmasq is running
<directhex> wow dmsetup. such bug. much mishandling of device nodes.
<aquarius__> ali1234: is there an NM logsomewhere I can look at? syslogshows many lines(repeated) butno obvious *errors*
<ali1234> aquarius__: pastebin ifconfig -a please
<ali1234> also route -n
<ali1234> is it still showing the popups?
<aquarius__> ali1234: yes it is
<ali1234> then it is trying to set up the network but failing for some reason
<aquarius__> ali1234: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7104259/
<aquarius__> that br0 thing is still there
<ali1234> okay you need to get rid of that br0
<daftykins> last thing, eth0 was still attached to it
<ali1234> how did you bring it up?
<aquarius__> ah,yes
<directhex> for the non-twitterites: I have Â£140, and I want a case, power supply, mobo, RAM, and x64 CPU. Don't care about vintage as long as mobo has software RAID e.g. Intel
<diddledan> directhex: software raid?
<diddledan> why would you want that?
<directhex> diddledan, to debug software raid issues in steamos installer
<diddledan> aah
<aquarius__> ok,removed eth0 from br0. Can't delete br0 because "bridge br0 is still up; can't delete it"
<penguin42> directhex: By software RAID you mean bios supported RAID or just do mdraid?
<diddledan> aquarius__: ifconfig br0 down
<aquarius__> how do I take it down?
<aquarius__> ah
<ali1234> brctl br0 down?
<daftykins> a bridge too far...
 * daftykins ducks
<penguin42> ifdown
<ali1234> reboot the computer?
<directhex> penguin42, the former
<diddledan> daftykins: at least it's not at remagen
<aquarius__> OK, br0 now not in ifconfig -a
<diddledan> or over the river kwai
<daftykins> ;]
<aquarius__> still getting popups
<diddledan> yeah, you still need to reconfigure eth0
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> network manager does that
<diddledan> nm doesn't know that there have been changes tho
<ali1234> it doesn't care. it will stomp them if it can
<diddledan> so you need to tell nm to reconfigure it I mean
<aquarius__> eth0 ismarked as Share with other computers in NM
<ali1234> try rebooting to get back to a known state
<aquarius__> ok
<aquarius__> be back in a sec then:)
<diddledan> \o/ for "helpful" software making it impossible to do things without rebooting
<ali1234> this would have worked if you all hadn't told him to start editing config files and running brctl
<daftykins> config editing never happened
<daftykins> aaaand we are where we are, no reason to get all moany over water under the bridge
<daftykins> uh-oh bridge :(
<diddledan> it must be the river kwai then
<diddledan> that's the only one that mentions anything to do with water
<diddledan> I guess they were all three going over water though
<daftykins> or marshland 0o
<daftykins> i have no idea!
<directhex> penguin42, mdraid & lvm already works. dmraid doesn't, it's heavily buggy
<penguin42> ok, it's specifically the dm not the md you're after - that's a bit more specific on the board
<diddledan> tell the users not to try
<diddledan> use software raid only
<diddledan> afaict bios-raid is a world of pain
<ali1234> i've got a dell gx270 - i think it has raid
<directhex> diddledan, thereby excluding anyone who already uses raid on windows
<ali1234> it's also like 10 years old
<diddledan> -_-
<diddledan> |
<directhex> most motherboards that aren't the absolute lowest-end models have some kind of terrible software RAID support
<ali1234> is that what you want?
<ali1234> oh wait, it isn't 64 bit
<ali1234> how about one of these? http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=1868&dl=1#sp
<directhex> socket 939? there's a blast from the past
<ali1234> it's newer than the dell :)
<diddledan> I've got one of these that I guess I'm not using right now
<diddledan> http://www.msi.com/product/mb/975X_Platinum_PowerUp_Edition.html
<diddledan> had a minor hardware hack to allow a PCIe x4 card to fit into a PCIe x1 slot
<diddledan> i.e. cut the end-plate of the slot out
<diddledan> looks like it only does raid 0, 1, 0+1 or JBOD
<daftykins> i had a socket 754 in here the other day
<dogmatic69_> anyone know how I could get something like cpu1: 20% cpu2: 35% ... in terminal
<dogmatic69_> basically what is in htop, but just plain text I can parse out
<directhex> mpstat -P all
<ali1234> it's case sensitive. you must put ALL
<directhex> oh, yes
<dogmatic69_> what is the install for mpstat?
<dogmatic69_> nvm
<dogmatic69_> seems my calculations might just have been ok
<directhex> sysstat
<daftykins> diddledan: :D i once advised someone to do that, they did not play along
<bigcalm> AlanBell: fancy adding a comment to the loco event page? :)
<Dave2>  Fatal error: Call to undefined function configureURL() in /home/mhr2013/public_html/gateways/response/paypalpro_return.php on line 46
<Dave2> Very reassuring
<bigcalm> Dave2: I got the same
<Dave2> I at least failed to pay
<Dave2> because I typed in my paypal token the wrong way round
<bigcalm> Dave2: yet I did receive emails from PayPal and from the RAT people
<Dave2> When I paid it was line 43.
<bigcalm> Same for me
<Dave2> Also, was the thing that prompted this me changing my response because I'm at a wedding on the 30th?
<bigcalm> You seem unsure
<bigcalm> It looked to be the 2nd August from quite early on
<Dave2> I'm at a wedding on the 30th. I was asking if me updating the Doodle poll to reflect this is what prompted the decision to be made.
<bigcalm> Oh, yes :)
<bigcalm> I needed to close the poll and make the event, that prompted me to get off my arse and do it
 * bigcalm feels all alone with his single comment on the event page
<MooDoo> evening
<Dave2> But you don't have the only comment
<Dave2> you're a LIAR
<Dave2> also hello
#ubuntu-uk 2015-03-09
<daftykins> mapp: did you do it yet? :P
<mapp> HI daftykins
<mapp> I GUESS thats life
<mapp> get a job on purley way live in old ken street
<knightwise> mornin everyone
<mapp> jesus christ
<mapp> i love my ex girlfriend
<mapp> i hope she's ok though
<MooDoo> morning all
<mapp> morning
<mapp> gotta go outsidr in a min
<mapp> im smoking 30+ a day again now
<MooDoo> oh dear, expensive
<mapp> well
<mapp> its 2.50 a pack here
<mapp> an its lofe hey
<mapp> cant blame noone
<mapp> im petrified of getting old and smoking and drink obv dont help
<mapp> but what can i do
<knightwise> hmm.. pi Musicbox project = not coÃ¶perating today
<mapp> its a funny thing
<mapp> my dad worked at Wandsworth then moved to Coldingley
<mapp> wish i could ge rid of all the drunk idiots
<knightwise> oh god .. they are going to launch the apple watch tonight. Can i crawl under a rock somewhere for the next 3 weeks ?
<mapp> :D
<mapp> yep
<mapp> apple watcg
<mapp> iudiots will buy it
<mapp> id rather have 20 packs of cigarettes than that garbage
<mapp> remember ima big time smoker
<mapp> smoking mave 30 a day
<mapp> i dont know
<knightwise> Noobs will flock me and ask "why don't i have one".
<knightwise> I feel another blogpost coming up
<knightwise> "the 80-IQ Economy" How to get dumb people to pay way too much for their gadgets
<mapp> i dont do blogposts;p
<mapp> i liv in gibraltar
<mapp> but wannna be in SE1
<mapp> im an SE1 boy
<shauno> lol .. I'll buy it :)
<mapp> christ
<mapp> im an alcohllic
<mapp> ive got enoiugh issus
<mapp> :P
<shauno> even more reason to be spending your beer money on toys
<mapp> nah#
 * knightwise things mapp is drunk
<mapp> shauno
<mapp> thanks knightwise:P
<mapp> i already said i have a drink problem]
<mapp> shauno#
<mapp> im SE1 for life
<mapp> :(
<mapp> never get anyway good eh
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<brobostigon> hey knightwise
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<bashrc> morning
<popey> morning
<webpigeon> Morning
<Dr_Robotnic> morning has anyone got any experience creating customised livecds?
<SuperMatt> I have experience cos I've done it once
<SuperMatt> can't actually remember what I did though
<awilkins> OK : so, if you drag an email or an attachment off Thunderbird, it makes a link
<SuperMatt> yup
<awilkins> But Nautilus doesn't follow those links back to Thunderbird
<SuperMatt> nope
<SuperMatt> it's mental
<awilkins> Would be great it it worked...
<SuperMatt> and because no one is bothering to update thunderbird any more, it ain't gonna change
<awilkins> Well, it's not entirely Thunderbirds problem
<SuperMatt> Dr_Robotnic: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization follow this and all your prayers shall be answered
<awilkins> I'd love it if it worked
<SuperMatt> we all would
<SuperMatt> but I've given up with email clients
<Dr_Robotnic> not so much :(
<SuperMatt> gmail and owa work, so I'm not changing any more
<awilkins> You could just shove an imap:// link in a ticket (in your personal tracking system) and go look at it
<awilkins> SuperMatt, OWA, urrgh
<Dr_Robotnic> i'm trying to install the drivers for a printer and having trouble
 * awilkins has Thunderbird set up on his Office 365 email
<SuperMatt> awilkins: the new version for outlook 201<something> is quite nice
<Dr_Robotnic> I keep getting asked for root password in the chrooted envrioment
<SuperMatt> Dr_Robotnic: ah, do the drives work *outside* the live cd?
<awilkins> What I really want is a kind of unified ticket tracker / email / productivity client
<Dr_Robotnic> not sure, i can install the drivers on a ubuntu install
<awilkins> Something that does Getting Things Done (has a tickler feature)
<awilkins> Where everything (unarchived email threads, everything) is treated as an open task
<awilkins> It has a wiki for the knowledge management side, integration to the common phoneses like the Exchange plugin for Android, etc
<daftykins> hmm i have received word that 8 x 4TB disks have shown up, now to plan how to have them all connected at once
<daftykins> (power wise)
<zmoylan-pi> time to download the internet...
<daftykins> nah, it'll probably be over 24 hours to initialise a RAID6 across those to start with :)
<Myrtti> in the olden golden days my ex tried to download a webBBS to be available offline on his W98 or something.
<Myrtti> people joined the effort, crashed the BBS and trashed the database.
<Myrtti> it was a Very Bad Idea (tm)
<popey> hehe
<popey> i mean, oh dear
 * Laney gets paranoid that laney@ubuntu.com has started getting double glazing spam at the same time that he actually started looking for it
<daftykins> lmao
<Myrtti> yeah, I got a Mick George spam on mine.
<diddledan> browserstack has a new interface - funky
<davmor2> wow dead or alive had a number 1 30 years ago today now I feel old
<diddledan> davmor2, you _are_ old :-p
<diddledan> davmor2, we all are
<davmor2> diddledan: you're only old if you remember the video and not from youtube
<davmor2> damn it I'm old
<davmor2> but a year younger than popey and MooDoo so I don't care :D
<diddledan> thankyou google for giving me an extra 2GB :-p
<shauno> I think the bigger o_O is "wow, dead or alive had a number 1"
<diddledan> wow, google do storage plans up to 200TB
<diddledan> err. 20TB
<diddledan> err. 30TB (get it right diddledan !)
<diddledan> 30TB is 299.99$ per month
<diddledan> 10TB is 99.99
<diddledan> 1TB is 9.99
<diddledan> pretty linear by the looks
<davmor2> diddledan: pick a number, any number, add a 0 to the end, divide it by 2,  minus 50, multiple the final number by 2 and you should get to the right number ;)
<diddledan> teehee
<shauno> is /this/ the card you were thinking of?
<davmor2> shauno: most of the time a woman will pick the queen of hearts and a man will pick the ace of spades interesting bit a trivia for you :)
<Myrtti> I was thinking of my updated credit card...
<davmor2> Myrtti: that's a different trick when you can make a credit card disappear and reappear in the deck of cards :)
<diddledan> warning, graham clueless: http://www.hotforsecurity.com/blog/a-bad-week-for-uk-cybercriminals-11533.html
<diddledan> apparently I'm not well-known enough among law enforcement. must raise my profile
<shauno> but that'd mean standing up?
<diddledan> good point
<diddledan> hmm
<andyc> Hi, in ubuntu is it possible to have a laptop stay awake when the lid is closed when an external monitor is present?
 * davmor2 blocks diddledan from the interwebz
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> but... but...
<diddledan> I NEED teh intertubes!
<davmor2> diddledan: okay have them back but at a slower speed but only cause I'm feeling generous :)
<diddledan> dankee
<diddledan> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1426448868/cuberox-six-screen-waterproof-linux-powered-comput
<popey> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1426448868/cuberox-six-screen-waterproof-linux-powered-comput
<popey> neat
<diddledan> popey, gonna buy? :-p
<popey> dunno. I'd rather make one
<diddledan> yeah, a pi would probably be able to power one of those
<popey> pi + box + 6 LED displays
<popey> battery pack and qi charger
<popey> or even a usb connector on the bottom
<popey> i am not convinced it needs all 6 sides with a display
<diddledan> I don't see the need for waterproofing either
<awilkins> andyc, It's possible to turn off the lid-closed-suspend thing completely
<popey> yes and no
<popey> it will still lock the screen
<ali1234> $299 retail?
<diddledan> is it apple announcement time yet?
<ali1234> it needs 6 faces because the only input is it's orientation
<awilkins> It has touchscreens too
<awilkins> I think they might be one pixel per face though
<ali1234> pi wouldn't fit inside it
<ali1234> also, it uses far too much power for a device like that
<ali1234> if for example you used a pi2 so you could run ubuntu, you'd get about 4 hours battery life if you filled the entire of the inside with lithium ion batteries
<ali1234> that would also explain the extremely high cost, i guess
<awilkins> I like their dubious claim that you can install Office on it
<awilkins> I'm guessing they mean "LibreOffice"
<diddledan> http://www.quickmeme.com/img/bf/bfc8800a2540c5274ebce706b295ed3102600ff4f50a934426edeb165c5fb49d.jpg
<diddledan> colleague just sent that to me
<awilkins> And the only way you'd actually be able to use it is over remote X11, because 6x16x16 just isn't enough for more than a couple of buttons...
<awilkins> diddledan, Isn't the point of Git that you CAN commit your code without pulling?
<awilkins> You can do a merge later?
<diddledan> awilkins, yeah, you'd think
<awilkins> This kind of just illustrates why SVN was rubbish
<awilkins> Or CVS
<diddledan> indeed, having to pull before commit just kills the whole benefit of decentralisation
<ali1234> that's what rebase is for
<awilkins> Ah, the rebase / merge dichotomy
<diddledan> I don't actually know what the idea of rebase is
<diddledan> I'm still fairly novice at git
<ali1234> rebase is the best feature of git
<awilkins> rebase lets you re-do your revisions as if they came from the top of the remote history instead of where you actually branched from
<awilkins> rebase -i is useful IMHO
<awilkins> Lets you make your own revision history less messy and more coherent
<diddledan> I can use it solidly, but anything more esoteric than the standard pull push commit and such is unknown to me
<awilkins> For (personal) example of the insane power : http://strangeowl.blogspot.com/2013/04/grafting-history-with-git.html
<diddledan> yeah, I'm intrigued by bzr
<diddledan> I love the full-on integration with launchpad and that ubuntu uses it extensively, but it seems outside the ubuntu community it's a bit of a black sheep
<awilkins> I liked Bazaar a lot. I used it for an internal project at a time when Git for Windows was i) not mature ii) not remotely comprehensible by normal users
<diddledan> git seems to be taking over all the things
<awilkins> Mercurial choked on their tree, SVN was too slow
<diddledan> even visual studio online from microsoft uses it
<awilkins> Jeepers
<diddledan> (you get the choice when you create a new project between MS' TFS or git)
<awilkins> VSS was horrible
<diddledan> I never played with that
<awilkins> I know that TFS is a different thing, but the taint doesn't wear off
<awilkins> VSS was utterly, utterly terrible. Basically the worse features of CVS combined with an obfuscated and fragile repository model that you shared publicly on your network via SMBFS
<diddledan> opengl-next is now known as "vulcan"
<diddledan> ouch
<awilkins> It came with tools that could analyze the repo to see if it was broken
<diddledan> anything on smbfs should die a slow and painful death
<ali1234> bzr doesn't have rebase
<Laney> git pull --rebase
<Laney> so good
<awilkins> They took an age and when they finished they usually told you, yes, it's broken, no, we can't fix it.
<awilkins> Best feature of VSS (and CVS, btw)  : Purge.
<awilkins> Purge a file. Congrats, you have now erased it from all history.
<diddledan> dear god man
<awilkins> You can no longer build any revision of the software that contained that file.
<diddledan> that's counter to the whole idea of history of all the things
<ali1234> i think bzr's lack of bisect is worse though, makes it only suitable for developers who don't care about regressions
<awilkins> bzr has bisect
<diddledan> ali1234, no bisect?
<ali1234> no, it doesn't
<awilkins> There's a bisect plugin
<diddledan> wow that's a really awesome feature to be lacking
<ali1234> it has a plugin for it, which hasn't been maintained for 6 years and no longer works
<ali1234> and in fact it never worked, even when it was maintained
<awilkins> Hmm
<diddledan> git bisect is pretty sublime
<ali1234> it couldn't be implemented properly, because bzr has no way of telling the user what the current working dir revision is
<awilkins> The only thing that makes git bisect better is proper automated tests
<ali1234> so you could do your bisect, and then have no way of knowing which version you ended up on
<awilkins> Uh, no, bzr can tell you which revision you've got checked out
<awilkins> It will even stick a pretty flag on it in the pretty log viewer
<ali1234> it couldn't back when the bisect plugin still worked
<ali1234> another problem with bzr bisect was there was no "skip" option
 * awilkins pulls his install of bzr-bisect
<ali1234> so if you hit a build that wouldn't compile, you had no way of continuing
<ali1234> and you couldn't change to another revision manually, because there's no way of knowing which revision you are currently on
<awilkins> ali1234, Believe you'd use bzr bisect move for that (but a bit manual)
<ali1234> move takes you directly to the numbered revision, but since there's no way to know what the current revision is, there's no way to know where you should go
<ali1234> bzr is pretty much a write-only VCS
<ali1234> it's great if you never want to look at the history or do anything with it and are just using VCS because your boss insists on it
<awilkins> TBH I think that encouraging rebase is counterproductive
<ali1234> it is if you measure productivity by the size of the repo
<awilkins> I think rebase for your personal work branch is great
<ali1234> huge merge commits really blow up the history to the point of being unmanagable
<awilkins> I think for pushed revisions it sucks a big one
<awilkins> Huge merge commits are the product of huge patches, which is a separate topic - huge patches are what Git is designed to avoid, because it was the natural result of using SVN and similar, because they made merging hard
<ali1234> huge merge commits are what happens when the thing you are merging hasn't been rebased to the latest master version
<awilkins> A self-reinforcing loop ; SVN made merging hard, so people tried to do it less, which made their branch delta larger, which made merging hard...
<ali1234> if i had a choice i'd rather remove merge commits than remove rebasing
<awilkins> You couldn't do hotfixes that you then merged into the mainline then
<ali1234> of course you could
<ali1234> you just couldn't do it in the most lazy and ugly way possible
<awilkins> Erm, hello, I'm a programmer. The laziest way is by definition the way that requires the least work.
<awilkins> And the best. Work only leads to mistakes because a human is doing it.
<awilkins> Fix a bug ; i) Bisect to find it's introduction. ii) Work out which current supported releases it affects ii) Patch it on a branch from the lowest revision you care about (or straight after the bug) iii) Merge into all releases you care about iv) Merge into main branch
<awilkins> Now you can test for the fixed-ness of a given branch by checking for that revision ID in it's history
<awilkins> If you write this down in your bug database when people call with that bug you can look it up and go "Yup, that bug is still in that version, but you could upgrade to version X which is the closest hotfix, or upgrade to newer version X+1 for only Â£12.99!
<ali1234> merely having the patch doesn't guarantee it is fixed, if the merge commit isn't right
<awilkins> Well, you have that same problem if you rebase and cherry pick it everywhere
<ali1234> you do, but you have to actually think about it
<awilkins> Or write a unit test as the FIRST revision on your patch branch
<awilkins> Missed a step ia) Write a unit test and commit that first, make sure it breaks the build correctly as expected
<ali1234> yes, i can't argue with that
<awilkins> Doing it your way doesn't create any fewer objects, just some of the commits have fewer parents.
<ali1234> the problematic merges though, are when feature branches against a really old development version are merged directly in to mainline
<ali1234> that just creates a mess
<awilkins> Yes, but that's not rebase / merge's fault
<awilkins> You can prevent that by merging outward frequently
<ali1234> right, it's the fault of whoever decided rebase shouldn't be allowed
<awilkins> Which people with SVN habits don't do
<awilkins> Because "Merging is Hard"
<ali1234> and no, merging mainline into your feature branch all the time makes an even bigger mess, because now all the commits for a feature are scattered through history
 * awilkins summons Obi-Wan
<awilkins> "That depends greatly on your point of view"
<ali1234> and if you need to bisect that feature you;ve got 10x as much work
<ali1234> my point of view is that of somebody who didn't write the code and is trying to fix it much later
<ali1234> because that's mainly what i do :)
<awilkins> The commits for that feature are still on that branch ; but there are some outward merges into it
<ali1234> but that branch is on some developer's machine, and all i've got is mainly
<ali1234> mainline*
<awilkins> How do you end up debugging it if it's only on HIS machine?
<awilkins> Those revisions have to have ended up in the build system to make a production bug
<ali1234> yes, scattered through the master branch in between hundreds of completely unrelated commits
<awilkins> If they are there the full history is there... the branch, maybe not, but a branch isn't any kind of continuity, it's a label stuck on a revision
<ali1234> exactly
<awilkins> Why would those revisions be scattered between the revisions in the master branch?
<awilkins> You only merge in when it's done
<ali1234> bisect has a beginning and an end
<awilkins> Yup
<ali1234> if you rebase your patches, they also have a beginning and an end
<ali1234> if you merge your patches you create a fork in history every time you do it
<ali1234> that fork has to be flattened somehow
<awilkins> Are we saying your master is just one big line of revisions and you have no branches off it?
<ali1234> it effectively becomes that once you try to bisect it, yes
<ali1234> i'm saying that it is best if master is one big line of revisions, yes
<ali1234> it often isn't
<awilkins> bisect when you merge feature branches becomes i) a search for the revision where the feature branch merged and then ii) A search for the revision in the feature branch which introduced the bug
<ali1234> and with bzr it never is if you have more than one developer
<awilkins> I prefer a master that only consists of tested completed feature branch merge revisions
<ali1234> that's a mess to deal with when you don't know which feature introduced the bug
<awilkins> That's what bisect is for
<ali1234> and bisect turns history into a single line of commits
<ali1234> except that in such a system, most of the commits are merge commits
<awilkins> AFAIK bisect navigates around the graph
<ali1234> it descends in to branches
<awilkins> Yup
<awilkins> But it will be quicker to find which branch to descend into if it first bisects master
<ali1234> which means instead of n steps, your bisect is now n * number of branches steps
<awilkins> What, it checks every revision for every branch? Think not.
<ali1234> it bisects every branch
<awilkins> https://github.com/git/git/blob/master/Documentation/git-bisect-lk2009.txt#L407
<ali1234> it has to, because you can merge master in to your branch, and then merge your branch back in to master
<ali1234> which means the bug can come and go from the point of view of master
<ali1234> often there's no way to produce a canonical linear history when you have this type of structure so it can't just "bisect master" because master has loops
<awilkins> If you merge master out to your branch, that revision is not part of the POV of master, unless you merge it back into master, in which case it's part of master
<awilkins> And no, you can't have loops in git
<awilkins> It's a directed acyclic graph of revisions
<awilkins> *acyclic*
<ali1234> it still has parallel branches that later merge
<awilkins> Yes, it does ; and they are either an ancestor of the bad revision or not
<ali1234> yes, and often they all are
<ali1234> which means each one has to be bisected indepentently
<popey> Apple watch event live stream, song currently playing is "Busy Earnin'" :)
<awilkins> You bisect the shortest path through the graph (master, made of all those merge revisions) and prune most of them away
<awilkins> You can't claim that it's n * branches because the branches are MADE of n
<awilkins> With a good bisection algorithm you will have fewer steps bisecting a branched graph than a linear one
<ali1234> that makes no sense at all
<awilkins> If HEAD and HEAD^^ are both bad
<awilkins> And HEAD is a merge revision on top of a branch with n/2 revisions in it
<awilkins> You can just ignore n/2 of the effort because you know that the bug revision is an ancestor of HEAD^^
<ali1234> that's not what ends up happening though
<ali1234> what actually happens is that because your branches are regularly merged with master, you've actually propogated the bug into multiple branches
<ali1234> so the merge commits are all bad, and the common ancestors are all good
<awilkins> Your branches are NOT regularly merged with master
<ali1234> and then you pick one and bisect it and just hit a merge commit, then continue down the rabbit hole
<awilkins> Master is merged to them
<ali1234> exactly "master is merged to them"
<ali1234> bugs and all
<awilkins> But you can still bisect the shortest path through the graph to revision zero through master and rapidly find the branch the bug was introduced on
<awilkins> Possible less explicitly on git than bazaar
<awilkins> Or other VCSs that actually have a notion of branch being a thing
<ali1234> all true except for the "rapid" part
<awilkins> Whereas in git a branch is a label
<awilkins> And there is no branch in the history, only where the label is now
<mapp> gah]
<mapp> another one of those days
<mapp> passed out
<mapp> wake up cant remember what time i wS UP TILL
<shauno> you were still whining about being drunk near 9am
<mapp> aha
<mapp> so after 9am
<mapp> clown behaviour again
 * mapp should know better
<shauno> weren't you meant to get up early to let someone in ?
<mapp> yes
<mapp> and i over sleep
<mapp> :D
<davmor2> http://open.spotify.com/track/4fC7KhiZuHg3qZ1rj0fDWT just leave this here and move on
<davmor2> MooDoo, popey: you'll like this http://open.spotify.com/album/1NILZoyUbK0pPWWWAnudJ1
<daftykins> my face when 4TB disks show up as 1.6TB on the controller card :)
<daftykins> then my sigh of relief when a firmware update has them show up correctly \o/
<daftykins> hrmm, any thoughts on 64KB stripe size versus 256KB on an 8 x 4TB RAID6 volume?
<MartijnVdS> doesn't that depend on available bandwidth per disk?
<awilkins> What's the use case?
<awilkins> Lots of dinky files?
<MartijnVdS> http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/RAID-SCALING-CHARTS,1735-4.html
<awilkins> Exactly where my browser landed @:-)
<awilkins> I'd probably go for the 64kB or even 32kB
<awilkins> 256kB won't do much to the multi-meg media files
<awilkins> But it will waste a lot of room on the dinky little source code files (assuming the file system doesn't do neat tricks like smush them into the metadata blocks)
<daftykins> awilkins: huge media
<daftykins> it's a clients music and film storage alone typically
<daftykins> hmm, i went with XFS on the last one too - but we're double the size now. wonder if i should look into alternatives
<diddledan> xfs should be ok with huge volumes I think (IANAL)
<diddledan> btrfs is too unstable still methinks
<diddledan> so the alternative would be zfs via fuse
<diddledan> I don't know if JFS is still supported?
<m0nkey_> ZFS is the way to go
 * m0nkey_ likes ZFS
<daftykins> ZFS wants to manage the disks directly though, no?
<daftykins> i'm using a proper hardware RAID controller here.
<m0nkey_> Correct, ZFS doesn't like being on a hardware controller
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/EmrgencyKittens/status/575034682930233344/photo/1
<daftykins> so yeah no ZFS for me :)
<m0nkey_> Heh, it's not for everyone. Just us FreeNAS nuts.
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> this is a dedicated PC so i'd rather use the 3ware controller yeah
<m0nkey_> so is my FreeNAS box :)
<daftykins> oh yeah, the funky OS thing
<daftykins> nevermind, i shouldn't IRC and xbox night
<shauno> que?
<DJones> diddledan: Any idea what this cat has been licking http://poolhouse.s3.amazonaws.com/blog-assets-two/2015/03/disgusted5.jpg
<diddledan> DJones, one dreads to think
<m0nkey_> ugh.. the new macbook air, it's basically an ipad with a keyboard now
<diddledan> it's not actually an air
<diddledan> it's a "macbook"
<diddledan> afaict that is
<diddledan> which means the macbook is slimmer than the macbook air
<shauno> I think it'll make sense eventually
<m0nkey_> Which doesn't make sense. Might as well drop the MacBook Air line
<diddledan> I quite like the look of those 5k imac hair removers
<shauno> step 1, kill the non-retina pro (which feels like the not-too-distant future)
<shauno> then yeah, step 2, once they have cost under control on this one, kill the air.  go back to just having mb / mb pro
<shauno> having such a cluttered 'offer' really isn't their style.  it really feels like this is just a transition until they can make retina cost-effective enough to warrant killing the non-retina models
<diddledan> they've got a proliferation of imac too
<diddledan> 21inch 27inch and 27inch 5k
<shauno> that's almost exactly the same issue though?  they can't kill the 27" until they can get the cost down on the 5k
<diddledan> aye
<zmoylan-pi> i did see a cat pull disgusted face after she stuck her face in a bag she thought was groceries but was in fact used to contain used nappies
<shauno> I think they need to cull one of the ipads too, and just go back to having "the big one" and "the little one" in each category
 * m0nkey_ wont be buying another Mac
 * m0nkey_ will buy a motherboard (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157504) next week
<shauno> heh, newegg are one of the few thing I miss about the US
<shauno> newegg, me ma, and not needing a drivers licence because there's only two cops in town - one's on a bicycle, and the other was on my bowling team
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> ooh, just found a bar o chocolate I didn't know I had
<m0nkey_> Anyone know how to get Ubuntu or even Fedora to boot solo on the latest MBA firmware? I don't get bootwait anymore, just a flashing question mark.
<diddledan> m0nkey_: bios mode or efi?
<diddledan> both similar but vary slightly
<diddledan> you need to boot into the recovery and run bless
<daftykins> you guys had a giggle at Apple's latest excretion? :P
<daftykins> http://www.apple.com/macbook/
<shauno> kinda .. I sat and stared at the numbers until I convinced myself that I didn't really want one
<daftykins> the numbers aren't even as far as i feel you need to get, to see it's terrible :D
<diddledan> I'm not sure it's "terrible"
<shauno> it looks pretty sweet for travelling
<diddledan> aye
<shauno> but the price just isn't where I want to see a second machine
<diddledan> 2lbs is light enough I'd forget I've got it
<daftykins> but the connectivity O_O
<daftykins> pretty much denies travel :D
<daftykins> oops almost denise'd
<diddledan> o_O
<shauno> how so?
<diddledan> really? when I'm travelling I don't tend to connect much to it
<shauno> I like to hook mine up to the hotel TV so I can watch movies instead of the three news channels they have in english
<diddledan> I only connect things when I'm stationary at which point a docking station would be fine
<shauno> this one would need a hdmi adaptor just as my last 2 have
<daftykins> i think it's a very niche device for the rich :)
<shauno> I think it's going to replace the macbook air
<diddledan> ditto
<shauno> not yet, obviously.  but I think when the dust settles we'll have a macbook and a macbook pro.  with a clear difference between them
<shauno> just like we used to before they turned the macbook into a jr-pro, and the lowest pro into a pro-jr, and then went sideways with the air, and split everything up into retina & non-retina ...
<daftykins> haha
<shauno> (niche is what they said about the air too, and the buggers are everywhere now)
<daftykins> sounds like sport talk :D
<m0nkey_> diddledan, how'd I get the thing into bios mode?
<diddledan> m0nkey_: by having a non-efi operating system installed
<diddledan> m0nkey_: it's all part of the firmware - when you install windows, e.g., it adds an mbr which the efi will boot using bios mode when you select to boot windows
<diddledan> for linux that means having an mbr with grub installed into it
<diddledan> i.e. install grub to /dev/sda NOT /dev/sda1
<diddledan> or 2 or 3
<daftykins> i'd been confused about that, because obviously you've got bootcamp to wizard mode boot your Windows media, but how do you instruct it to legacy boot a Linux from flash drive?
<diddledan> daftykins: hold option/alt
<shauno> most of them won't legacy-boot from a flashdrive.  it's annoying as all family-friendly
<diddledan> I don't know much about that
<diddledan> never needed to worry
<diddledan> it's always done what I've needed
<shauno> all 3 I've had, would only legacy-boot from an internal drive
<diddledan> yeah, I haven't had that issue
<shauno> which was fine until I ripped my dvdrom out and shoved it in a usb chassis :)
<m0nkey_> I wouldn't mind continue to run OSX, but 10.10 is so god damn awful.
<daftykins> when i've seen it, it only lists a flash drive as EFI boot
<diddledan> shauno: are you sure it's not just usb cd/dvd drives yours don't like booting from
<daftykins> m0nkey_: how is it any different? :)
<diddledan> shauno: mine boots fine from the apple usb dvd drive
<shauno> it won't boot from usb flash either
<shauno> it's an air?
<diddledan> nope
<diddledan> mbp
<shauno> hm.  I wonder what they've done different with that drive then
<diddledan> nothing - mine also boots fine from usb-hdd
<shauno> odd.  mine (and the last 2) won't boot non-efi from usb-anything
<daftykins> nah there's definitely some generational differences
<shauno> just firewire & internal
<diddledan> yeah, the fact you're talking firewire dates your machines to "ancient" territory
<shauno> lol, tjhis one's 2011.  it's not ancient yet :)
<daftykins> XD
<diddledan> :-p
<shauno> (and until thunderbolt externals get a whole lot cheaper, you ain't taking my firewire off me)
<diddledan> usb3
<shauno> ssd in a fw800 external is just loverly
<daftykins> i think thunderbolt is in danger of late
<shauno> I don't actually want usb3.  it's everything that was wrong with usb2, but driven faster.
<daftykins> it was fine and dandy when it was new and not really challenged, but... not so much now
<daftykins> what about 3.1? :)
<shauno> is it physically possible to do its rated speed yet?
<daftykins> what was your idea about 3.0?
<daftykins> i only have a couple of cheap as chips flash drives and one 1.5TB USB 3.0 external
<shauno> usb2 cannot do 480mbit.  usb3 cannot do 5gbit.
<daftykins> so i haven't really been able to see it strained in any way
<daftykins> pretty sure they do when MAC layer is factored in
<daftykins> i can't 100% claim i've seen numbers proving it though
<shauno> usb3 vs tb is going to end up exactly the same as usb2 vs firewire I think
<shauno> the technically superior protocol loses because it uses horrifically expensive chipsets, so the devices never arrive
<diddledan> vhs vs betamax
<daftykins> sounds about right
<shauno> fw blew the pants off usb2 (even fw400), but I pay about 70-80e extra to find an external caddy that has it
<diddledan> I like the idea of hotplug pci exposed to the outside - though it causes issues with firmware exploits tho
<daftykins> now i don't mean to defend USB here, because i've always found it pretty pants. i liked PS/2 for my keyboard and mouse just fine ;)
<diddledan> usb wants to be the answer to everything
<daftykins> yeah this addition of power and video was kinda odd to say the least
<daftykins> audio as well? can't remember
<Myrtti> zoink. 17K.
<shauno> having power going both ways is quite surprising.  although I thought they should have done that with tb too, then the monitor would be an all-in-one dock
<shauno> that's another thing firewire should have won at.  it's rated to 60 watts, so none of these silly 'charger protocols'
<shauno> oh well.  I still haven't given up waiting for ip-over-thunderbolt to arrive in freebsd :)
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> i still remember getting a long firewire cable to try networking over it, only to discover it didn't support it :(
<shauno> :(
<shauno> I just like the sound of freenas with a 10gbit connect to my laptop
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> that sounds scaryfast
<diddledan> echo
<zmoylan-pi> quack
<diddledan> is anybody out theeeerrrreeeee
<diddledan> knock once for yes, three times for no
<diddledan> well obviously there's someone there else they'd have knocked three times
<awilkins> Thunderbolt cables :
<awilkins> Horribly expensive because they need special chips in them!
 * awilkins is responding to stuff from half an hour ago
<zmoylan-pi> makes it harder for chinese to make cheap knockoff copies
<diddledan> which, on the one hand means more money in the pockets of the licensors, and on the other guarantees compatibility
<awilkins> It's almost like the horrible nightmare where the audiophiles are right - you DO need a special cable
<diddledan> yeah, but these aren't the bots you're looking for
<zmoylan-pi> made of gold chips and gold wire in a cheap non conductive plastic sheath.
<shauno> lol, we were just talking about that earlier.  I've moved to digital connects for everything so I can just buy amazonbasics cables and laugh at the audiophiles :)
<zmoylan-pi> i plug my sennheiser headphones into a phone cheaper than the headset :-)
<shauno> I was laughing at this with dan earlier .. http://www.box-designs.com/main.php?prod=streamboxrs&cat=source&lang=en
<shauno> it's basically a e1500 mp3 player
<shauno> that's what I'm busy turning an rpi into.  except in my version, the most expensive part will be a sexy chassis to house it in
<diddledan> by sexy he means it's a naked woman
<m0nkey_> sounds uncomfortable
<Myrtti> ow.
<Myrtti> and hrmph
<daftykins> Myrtti: do you come with a legend that describes what each sound means? :D
<zmoylan-pi> ow is either finding a d4 or lego piece on the floor while barefoot...
<mapp> im gonna have to rob someone to live at dads
<diddledan> o_O
<mapp> Â£48000 average rent
<mapp> i cant afford that
<mapp> never
<diddledan> 28K?!
<diddledan> err 48K?!
<mapp> a year yes
<diddledan> that's more than I get for working a year
<mapp> the rent is Â£4500
<mapp> at my dads
<diddledan> ouch
<mapp> a month
<diddledan> jaybus!
<mapp> Enismore Mews
<mapp> nuce area
<mapp> but still;p
<diddledan> must be paved with gold at that price!
<mapp> si
<diddledan> tis redunkulous
<mapp> my dad owns it
<mapp> so he's ok
<mapp> but Â£4500 a month is lol
<mapp> who can pay that
<diddledan> can't he let you stay for free?
<diddledan> or at least mate's rates
<daftykins> mapp: what happened with the browsers on your Lenovo with the superfish check? :>
<mapp> diddledan
<mapp> wwe arent friends
<mapp> i go home briefly
<diddledan> oh :-(
<mapp> my dad can drop dead for  all i care
<daftykins> D:
<mapp> ;]
<mapp> funny old world
<mapp> GU21 -> P0 0> ST1 - GIB
<mapp> :D
<diddledan> orange except for tuesdays
<ali1234> http://track.royalmail.com <- what if you go to this URL?
<ali1234> something weird happens on my computer...
<mapp> i figure
<diddledan> yeah they're forwarding to a url without the : between https and //
<ali1234> right
<mapp> il probably die from drnking or smoking
<ali1234> in chrome i end up at http://https//www.royalmail.com/track-your-item/
<diddledan> safari just says no
<ali1234> and in firefox i end up at http://www.homeimprovement.com/www.royalmail.com/track-your-item/
<diddledan> fun
<mapp> probably
<mapp> :)
<ali1234> the former gives an error, the latter just makes no sense at all
<shauno> I end up at 'https'
<diddledan> opera says no, also
<mapp>  cant say   smeone forced me to drink frced me to drink
<mapp> bg guy think i know it all
<mapp> but i dont:D
<diddledan> chrome says no, also. so it's just firefox that weirdness happens
 * diddledan tries IE just for **its and giggles
<shauno> ah, I'm getting the same thing on everything because they're all handed off to the same proxy, and it returns the error page
<ali1234> it actually sends Location: http://https://www.royalmail.com/track-your-item/
<diddledan> eww
<ali1234> which in firefox lands me at the homeimprovement.com
<daftykins> with Tim the Toolman Taylor?
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> IE8 gives a failure
<ali1234> http://https://example.com/test
<ali1234> also goes to homeimprovement.com
<intrbiz> ali1234: if you look in firebug, Firefox connects to https.com which redirects to homeimprovement
<diddledan> specifically the browserstack proxy gives a failure
<ali1234> intrbiz: i see... well, that's a bit silly isn't it?
<diddledan> yeah, that's old style helpfulness
<intrbiz> ali1234: yes and no, certainly for a Location header it should error as a malformed URL
<diddledan> time was that people would type "yahoo" and expect it to go to "yahoo.com" so browsers made bareword names cycle a list of common tlds
<intrbiz> ali1234: but the adress bar itself does lots of weird autodetetion shit these days :(
<diddledan> intrbiz: indeed, as it's a result from a server it shouldn't do helpful tidying
<ali1234> yeah, this is a URL i clicked on though
<intrbiz> however the royal mail should also send a valid Location header
<mapp> m dad aslays ays il endup in croyfo
<diddledan> ali1234: issue tracker all the things
<mapp> if nt careful
<diddledan> croydon?
<shauno> you've been awake 6 hours and you can't type?  dude.
<intrbiz> even wget tries to resolve 'https' as a host :( sigh
<mapp> yea sorry
<ali1234> it isn't fooled by the redirect thouhg
<mapp> diddledan
<ali1234> Resolving https (https)... failed: No address associated with hostname.
<mapp> croydn
<intrbiz> ali1234: no, but it is still attempting it, which it should not
<ali1234> also xdg-open is broken on my computer
<ali1234> it just opens google
<ali1234> guess i'll bug report that too
<mapp> croydon aint bad
<daftykins> is croydon some kinda 'failure' label?
<shauno> why shouldn't it try to resolve https if that's what it's requested to do?
<mapp> got a bed rep
<daftykins> i don't know England
<mapp> yes
<intrbiz> I suspect that the browsers are in a rock and a hard place, often servers violate the HTTP spec and send relative Location headers
<ali1234> except this means i can't report bugs because when it opens the browser on the launchpad page... i just get google
<mapp> daftykins
<ali1234> http://https:1000//foo is a valid URL
<mapp> croydons a dump really
<ali1234> but https != https.com
<diddledan> ali1234: perhaps you should file a bug on the inability to file bugs?
<ali1234> i'm trying to
<shauno> right, https.com is your browser trying to be clever.  wget trying to resolve 'https' is just doing what it says on the can
<mapp> but its where people live to pretend theoir surrey/london
<daftykins> mapp: ah
<shauno> just saying I can't fault wget for doing as its told there.
<diddledan> yeah, I get why launchpad tries to get people to use the ubuntu-bug programme but it should still let you file one without it
<diddledan> that's IMO
<mapp> i hate croydon
<ali1234> shauno: yep, agreed
<mapp> rom E&C maybe 20mins away
<shauno> (lets face it, if it tried to hold your hand when you gave it a stupid request, you'd end up at https.com again  lol)
<diddledan> E&C. Emergency & Cateracts?
<intrbiz> ali1234: http://https://xyz however is not valid
<mapp> lol diddledan
<ali1234> is it not?
<mapp> elephan and castle
<ali1234> http://@example.com/ is valid, no?
<intrbiz> ali1234: no port number provided, but separator given
<diddledan> aah
<mapp> best part of london:D
<mapp> best part of london
<mapp> lived oppsoite MOS FOR 6 YEArs
<daftykins> ministry of sound?
<mapp> im from surrey lived in e &c  and i lov3d it]id=
<shauno> metal-oxide semiconductor, silly
<mapp> id never leave se1
<diddledan> shauno: bingo!
<diddledan> shauno: I mean close, isn't the S for sillycone?
<shauno> no
<intrbiz> ali1234: http://@example.com is also not valid, something before the @ is required
<ali1234> fair enough
<shauno> silicon is an element, not a metal oxide
<intrbiz> http://www.w3.org/Addressing/URL/url-spec.txt - page 12 for the BNF
<diddledan> shauno: yes, but the metal oxide is in addition to silicon
<diddledan> shauno: otherwise you wouldn't have MOSFET
<shauno> right, it's what they dope the silicon with.  but the result is still a metal-oxide semiconductor :)
<diddledan> but wiki tells me you're right
<diddledan> all hail the wiki
<diddledan> the wiki hath spake
<ali1234> i actually looked that up the other day. the "T" stands for transistor
<ali1234> (what i was checking)
<shauno> which is why we say 'a mosfet' :)
<intrbiz> Field Effect Transistor
<diddledan> ali1234: field effect transister
<ali1234> indeed
<shauno> but I'm not sure it' a good excuse to get all sheldon on people who call it a mosfet tranny
<shauno> diddledan: don't.
<diddledan> it's got three legs, so surely that counts?
<diddledan> and speaking of browser weirdness - chrome asks me whether I meant to go to "http://mosfet/" instead of googling
<shauno> hah, you know I was saying I suspected that was coming from China rather than Birmingham?
<shauno> marked as shipped at 23:15
<diddledan> err
<diddledan> yeah, that ain't in blighty
#ubuntu-uk 2015-03-10
<shauno> I hate when they do that.  if I want it from china, I'll buy it from china.  if I want it quickly, I'll pay more to buy it local
<shauno> but when you pay more to buy it local, and they ship it from china, you just feel robbed
<ali1234> what is it?
<shauno> just a little i2c oled thingie
<ali1234> oh those
<ali1234> they are neat
<shauno> trying to make an mp3 player out of a pi.  the oled looked like a nice choice because it should look 'off' when its blank
<shauno> rather than having to worry about when to toggle the backlight on an lcd
<ali1234> what are you doing for battery?
<shauno> nadda, it's going in the rack with hifi bits
<shauno> but players built for that role seemed to be quite pricey
<daftykins> hrmm
<daftykins> that sounds quite neat now that Logitech completely messed up the Squeezebox range
<daftykins> i kinda wanted a second one for the lounge, my amp does some playback but it's not ideal
<daftykins> no gapless playback from my file server :(
<shauno> so far I'm using https://volumio.org playing off an external hdd, and using https://www.hifiberry.com/product/hifiberry-digi-transformer-version/
<shauno> so I can use the DAC on my amp instead of usb audio
<shauno> now I want to make it pretty, so it looks like it belongs there :)
<shauno> showing mpd's status on an i2c screen doesn't sound like a huge challenge, and hooking up a few buttons to gpios so you don't need to pull out your phone just to shut it off
<diddledan> there's something about naked electronics though
<diddledan> putting it all in a neat and tidy box just ain't cricket
<shauno> marriage kinda beat that out of me
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> lol a friend knew this guy...
<daftykins> http://news.rice.edu/2015/01/19/rice-student-covers-dorm-room-floor-with-13000-plastic-balls/
<shauno> tha's how I ended up with appletvs - they're much easier to get planning permission for
<daftykins> ah your amp is non-HDMI?
<daftykins> so non-AVR
<shauno> right.  a few phonos, a couple of opticals, and a coax-digital
<shauno> I'm going for the optical.  coax should be 'better', but I don't think my mp3 collection is going to tax it
<shauno> and it'll keep them completely electrically isolated, which is nice.  ground loops be gone.
<shauno> especially since filtering is near unheard-of in these little chinese wallwarts
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> the 24TB array is now 47% initialised \o/
<daftykins> over 6hrs later, so 12+ hours isn't bad
<shauno> the other reason for not wanting to use hdmi, is I'm still curious if I can keep retropie using it
<shauno> if I can make one box do double-duty, that'd be lovely :)
<daftykins> i don't know what that is to know how HDMI is ruled out?
<shauno> retropie is just a canned libretro/emulationstation setup.  retropie + wireless gamepad and you're 12 again
<shauno> but the instructions for this board say to blacklist the regular broadcom sound driver
<daftykins> ah i see
<shauno> so what's remaining to find out, is whether this is actually a requirement, or if they're just doing it to force it to become device 0
<daftykins> mmm rather than some proper config
<shauno> this is where my lack of desktop linux for the last 12+ years comes in.  last time I paid attention to sound on linux, it had got to the point where it didn't matter if you picked alsa or OSS, because esound was going to break it either way
<shauno> luckily volumio is just a big frontend to mpd, so it's only really mpd that I need to force to use the wrong device
<shauno> I still have no idea what I'm doing, but at least it narrows down the list of things to break :)
<shauno> and making sure you're breaking the right thing tends to be half the job
<shauno> anyway.  enough babble.  bedtime again, because I have one more postman to stalk tomorrow
<daftykins> ah-har! had some success with them today?
<daftykins> also postie/postperson! :D
<shauno> yes, I caught one this morning!
<shauno> they should have both come, but there was some idiocy involved with the one that had been 'out for delivery' since 6am friday
<shauno> they couldn't find my house, so they phoned the people that sent the parcel.  and they couldn't help
<daftykins> =[
<shauno> found this out when I sent them an email inquiring as to whether they'd seen their driver since friday
<daftykins> lol, in China no doubt
<shauno> worse, dublin
<daftykins> i've noticed etailers keep printing my mobile # on labels of late
<daftykins> quite rude indeed
<shauno> at least china know that ireland exists.  dublin tend to forget we exist
<daftykins> d'aww, but you're attached!
<daftykins> anyway to bed with you sir, nn! :>
<zmoylan-pi> yeah but shauno is outside the pale :-)
<daftykins> hmm?
<zmoylan-pi> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pale
<daftykins> ah-haaaar
<daftykins> i thought it was a universal term
<zmoylan-pi> depending on the year it covered various parts of ireland
<diddledan> some scary poo here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQ0I5tl0YLY
<daftykins> i think we know enough of your kinks, sir :D
<diddledan> -_-
<daftykins> sorry :(
<daftykins> hmm, 1hr - can't watch that right now
<diddledan> near the end - doing live demos in a room full of geek hackers and the hackers start calling the accidentally shown phone numbers excessively
<diddledan> hmm, I wonder what my chromecast just did update-wise
<daftykins> that's... pretty unprofessional of them
<diddledan> tv just rebooted
<zmoylan-pi> installing service patches just before the detective told you the murderer was? :-)
<diddledan> it's cycling a set of new images
<diddledan> I wonder if that was what the update was for
<daftykins> the TV or the chromecast?
<diddledan> chromecast
<diddledan> chromecast reboot == tv reboot :-p
<daftykins> it does 0o
<daftykins> CEC?
<diddledan> nah, simile
<daftykins> those things were all the rage for even shorter than netbooks ;D
<diddledan> what's replaced them then?
<daftykins> you could argue nothing really replaced netbooks
<diddledan> no, what replaced the chromecast
<daftykins> yeah i'm getting at nothing, basically
<daftykins> just seemed like a mass hype then suddenly... silence
<daftykins> now there's sticks from everyone! :D
<diddledan> android tv is gonna be the next wave
<diddledan> the majority of the available cheap tv sticks are just android for phones shoved onto a stick
<diddledan> i.e. they suck
<diddledan> balls
<daftykins> *nod*
<daftykins> ok really sleeping this time, ta-ra \o
<diddledan> usability on them is a nightmare
<diddledan> nn
<diddledan> who'm'I gonna moan at now?!
<daftykins> sorry :(
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> i was worried i'd genuinely insulted you with my kink quip
 * daftykins pats diddledan 
<diddledan> you'd be hard pushed to actually offend me
<diddledan> I'm as laid back as they come
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> I might even take it as a compliment ;-)
<diddledan> I wonder what time the chocolate shop opens
<diddledan> prolly 6am
<zmoylan-pi> for that brisk baker/milkman/postman trade?
<mapp> hm
<diddledan> eh? my bank just emailed me to let me know that they might email me
<diddledan> with no specifics just a "from time to time" announcement
<mapp> :D
<mapp> bank with a better ank:P
<mapp> bank
<mapp> I use Citibank
<diddledan> my reply: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/10573124/
<mapp> we get emails every week about scams raud yawn yawn]
<mapp> and i always think you gotta be a moron to fall for it
<diddledan> and it's sent
<diddledan> lets see how they reply
<diddledan> I feel like being a d**k today
<mapp> yuou should use citibank
<mapp> never any problemx
<diddledan> speaking of which - reminds me of an old-skool joke: "do you use your dictaphone?" .. "'cos I use my fingers like everyone else"
<mapp> lol
<mapp> citibank are good man
<mapp> i travel a fair bit and never had an issue with them
<mapp> whereas HSBC blocked my card when we were in Latvia
<diddledan> ouch
<mapp> declined at the bar.........im sure ive got enought to covr it
<mapp> so paid on citibank
<mapp> d
<jpds> Usually, I just call them and they unblock it.
<mapp> too much hassle
<mapp> why should i
<jpds> Less hassle than not being able to pay.
<jpds> mapp: Well, they ask that you tell them when you go aboard.
<mapp> i can always pay
<mapp> ive got amex too:D
<mapp> yet here
<mapp> thy dont take it lol
<mapp> i have fortunes on credit:)  my MBNA card limits Â£15k lol
<diddledan> jayz
<diddledan> that's a lot of credit
<mapp> i only got the card because my dad said noone will give you credit bla bla
<mapp> yea diddledan
<mapp> Barclays is Â£10k
<mapp> HSBC Â£5K
<mapp> M&S Â£3K
<jpds> mapp: And that's not including your Swiss accounts.
<mapp> HSBC Â£5k
<mapp> so as i say im credited up;p
<mapp> to the eye balld
<diddledan> you could buy a house on all that
<mapp> yea
<mapp> i have more;p
<mapp> got 2x Lloyds amex and mc
<mapp> Â£10k limit
<mapp> hsbc Â£3000 overraft
<mapp> n&p Â£1000 overdraft
<mapp> lol
<jpds> Nothing like talking about personal finances in a publicly logged IRC channel.
<mapp> well it makes no diffrence nto me
<mapp> im not in the uk:)
<mapp> all i wish is i was with my ex
<MooDoo> morning all
<diddledan> m00
<MooDoo> someone want me last night?
<mapp> morning MooDoo
<diddledan> I don't recall :-p
<MooDoo> morning mapp :D
<MooDoo> diddledan: :p
<mapp> i wish id staed with ellie
<mapp> so much
<mapp> but  cant turn bck tim:(
<mapp> SE1->N17->ST1->GIB :D
<MooDoo> time to move on dude :p
<diddledan> eh?
<mapp> yea i know
<mapp> diddledan?
<mapp> those are postcodes;p
<diddledan> PQ4->M57->GY9->GIB
<mapp> you aint in gib
<mapp> :P
<diddledan> I have no idea what they're representing
<mapp> SE1 south londn N17 haringey st1 stoke
<mapp> and GU24
<mapp> near popey
<diddledan> and if they're postcodes then I regret to inform that not many folk know their geographic locations by postal code
<diddledan> hence my confusion
<diddledan> just looked like randomness to me
<mapp> i thought everyone knew se1
<mapp> next stop kiev
<mapp> :D
<diddledan> no fair
<mapp> why
<diddledan> 'cos I have to stay at home
<mapp> youre welcome to come
<mapp> hows your russian?:P
<mapp> mines good lol
<diddledan> da
<mapp> hah
<mapp> mgoing with my friend fromn czech he speaks russian
<mapp> mine's a bit poor really
<mapp> Ukraine is like russia
<mapp> amazing girls]
<mapp> once we el my house in uk il never be going back;D
<mapp> we sell jeez
<mapp> its so nice here 14c is 'cold' to locals
<bashrc_> time zone appropriate greetings
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning diplo
<diplo> Hows you MooDoo ?
<MooDoo> diplo: yeah i'm ok thanks :D
<mapp> morn diplo
<diplo> Enjoying the new job still ?
<MooDoo> diplo: yeah it's fine for the moment
<diplo> Fine :) that was a diplomatic response :D
<mapp> hm
<diplo> Anyone tried the bluetooth speakers on GroupOn I see every few weeks
<diplo> Shower ones specifically
<MooDoo> diplo: no comment lol
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<mapp> morning
<mapp> met one other person here that can speak russian
<mapp> :9
<diplo> I started to learn Russian last year, really must start again
<mapp> i suspect you;re mocking me;p
<diplo> Nope, Russian and Spanish :)
<mapp> aha
<mapp> we have nice girls
<diplo> 2 places I want to visit again, I like to be able to speak a bit of the languages before I go
<mapp> yea
<mapp> i live in gib now (spain)
<diplo> I was also looking to date an Estonian girl and she preferred to speak Russian
<mapp> and i try to speak a bit of spanih
<diplo> Never been there, my dad was there for a while
<mapp> but russian is easy for me
<shauno> does russian have a whole bunch of different word endings too?
<mapp> si
<diplo> I was okay speaking it, reading and writing it not so good :)
<mapp> i can speak/write it
<shauno> that's my biggest problem with slovak so far.  you don't just have to find the right word, but there's 8? variations of each
<mapp> i dont here
<mapp> but when i go to rusia they undestand me
<diplo> I think people appreciate that you actually try
<diplo> I found that when I went to Spain a couple of years ago
<mapp> my russian is good though;p
<mapp> i just struggle somtimes
<mapp> most of the time im ok:)
<mapp> sometimes have to get google tranlate up
<shauno> I still do the 'deer in headlights' thing.  sometimes I know exactly what to say, but it comes out in english anyway.  and then I kick myself afterwards
<mapp> my 'mom' was russian
<mapp> thats why we know it
<diplo> A bit american as well :D
<shauno> heh, I imagine that helps
<shauno> I'm quite glad my mum was from Oxford.  growing up in scotland & the north-west, she's the only reason my accent isn't a complete loss
<diplo> hah, amazed you don't have a northern accent then
<diplo> My gran was Scotland, left when she was in her late teens.. now 96 and still as strong as ever :)
<shauno> I have a complete mutt of an accent.  10 years in scotland, 10 years in the north-west, 5 in the US, 8 in Ireland
<shauno> and parents from oxford & newcastle
<diplo> Blimey been about a bit then!
<shauno> just makes it fun when people try to guess :)
<shauno> (and less fun when people ask 'where in the UK'.   I've taken to deadpanning that with 'yes'.)
<diplo> I'd just go with current area :)
<shauno> lol, nooooo
<shauno> never give Americans the impression you've even heard of Ireland.  you'll spend the next hour listening to how their grandmother is probably related to you
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Organize Your Home Office Day! :D
<diplo> shauno, just go with Bath/Bristol then :)
<diplo> JamesTait, you're welcome to organise mine!
<JamesTait> diplo, you work in a mine?
<diplo> :p
<directhex> JamesTait: i recently shrunk my pile of paperwork by at least 6 inches!
<JamesTait> diplo, crosscut shredder?
<JamesTait> directhex, ^^
<directhex> just filing what needed filing, recycling the rest
<diplo> I do that once a year, fill a few black bags and go down the recycling centre
<JamesTait> directhex, ah - yes, I have a couple of binders of paperwork here that I think I can safely put back in the filing cabinet now, slightly lighter.
<directhex> diplo: i found some 2013 bank statements in the pile...
<directhex> certainly my 2013 camra card
<JamesTait> And a laptop that I can probably lay to rest, unless I can cobble together a working power supply out of the bits of all the broken ones
<diplo> I've got my payslips since I started working 23 years ago....
<diplo> Hoesntly don't know why I haven't chucked them yet, I'm on top of everything else
<JamesTait> diplo, you do that too? I thought I must be the only person in the world!
<directhex> i culled down to 7 years' retention on paperwork.
<JamesTait> directhex, is that a legal cut-off point for tax purposes or something?  I vaguely recall that figure from an e-mail at a former employer.
<JamesTait> s/figure/duration
<directhex> i think i heard the same, which is why i do it
<directhex> that said, i never took copies of electronic payslips, for my records
<directhex> so basically all my slips from my last job are MIA
<directhex> which is good, my binder is full and thr drawer the binders go in is full too
<diplo> 7 years is the figure for certain documents. Invoices etc
 * Laney bought a filing box, but that is now getting full
<Laney> buying a house generated a lot of pieces of paper
<diplo> I've never been self employed, but I had to deal with scanning all that stuff in at my last work place ( Not the work, organising hardware to do about 10 years worth for 80 branches!! )
<JamesTait> Laney, I know that feeling so well.
<diplo> Only paperwork I have now is mortgage stuff really, all bills are electronic now
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> Greetings
<popey> !rat
<lubotu3> rat is The Real Ale Train. A yearly Ubuntu UK loco event to celebrate friends, trains and ale. Saturday 19th September 2015 Hampshire, UK: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/3040-real-ale-train-2015/
<popey> before you do
 * bigcalm has his innocent face on today
<bigcalm> We have a healthy number of confirmed bookings. I don't need to pimp the event any more
<bigcalm> Morning intrbiz
<bigcalm> New work station is proving fun to use. But the wired network isn't connecting (using wifi with a workstation feels odd). How might I debug this situation?
<bigcalm> eth0 is showing up in ifconfig but it's not getting a DHCP lease. I don't think it's even trying to
<TwistedLucidity> bigcalm: Force it down/up?
<TwistedLucidity> Oh, it's not configured static or something silly is it?
<popey> bigcalm: dmesg | grep eth0
<awilkins> bigcalm, Not on a network where they assign DHCP leases to MAC addresses?
<bigcalm> TwistedLucidity: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10573927/
<awilkins> bigcalm, At my last job, I had to log Windows in once a week because it knew the Secret Magic that told the routers that no, I wasn't an evil person
<bigcalm> awilkins: no. My other devices connect just fine without auth
<awilkins> bigcalm, Hmmph
<awilkins> Ok, how's it configured.. you have NetworkManager?
<bigcalm> popey: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10573932/
<bigcalm> awilkins: I do, not changed any configuration for it though
<awilkins> Hrrmph
<popey> replace the cable
<awilkins> I suppose the little light is on
<popey> bigcalm: actually can you paste the whole "dmesg -T" ?
<bigcalm> popey: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10573939/
<popey> yeah, replace the cable
 * bigcalm scratches his head but goes to look for a spare cable
<TwistedLucidity> popey: "eth0: link is not ready" <- that the subtle clue?
<popey> ya
<intrbiz> bigcalm: morning
<intrbiz> 'ip link' is handy for showing the media states
<bigcalm> Replacing the network cable has made no difference
<intrbiz> bigcalm: what is th output of: ip link show eth0
<bigcalm> Using Adam's network port worked
 * bigcalm goes to look at the patch panel
<intrbiz> bigcalm: if you using structured cabling, that could also be at fault
<bigcalm> My SIP desk phone can see the network connection okay
<zmoylan-pi> it's little beady eyes watching everything... :-)
<bigcalm> I really am rather confused
<bigcalm> Humm
<bigcalm> I think it might be the patch cable I made
<bigcalm> How annoying
<intrbiz> bigcalm: your SIP phone is presumably fast ethernet (100Mb/s), is the switch gig?
<bigcalm> The SIP phone being more forgiving is only 100mb while the switch and my workstation are gig
<intrbiz> bigcalm: often one bad or broken pair in a cable will work at 100Mb/s but not at 1Gb/s
<bigcalm> I really don't want to remake patch leads
<intrbiz> bigcalm: gigabit makes use of all 8 wires, 10/100Mb/s only uses 4 wires
<bigcalm> I see
<intrbiz> bigcalm: cable tester?
<bigcalm> intrbiz: the one we have here makes no sense to me
<zmoylan-pi> who carries a cable tester anymore.
<bigcalm> I should bring in my own tester (if I can find it)
<intrbiz> zmoylan-pi: they are useful for debugging issues with structured cabling etc
<zmoylan-pi> intrbiz: i know but, but how often does that come up? :-)
<intrbiz> zmoylan-pi: for me not very often, for other people more often
<shauno> found an odd issue with this 'volumio' distro.  it auto-mounts usb-storage to /mnt/USB
<shauno> so using a disk with 3 partitions, they all get mounted to /mnt/USB.  if you add a second device, it gets mounted to /mnt/USB ....
<bigcalm> My tests before were with my workstation plugged directly into the wall
<bigcalm> Now that I have the wall connection going to the SIP phone and the phone going to the workstation
<bigcalm> Workstation no longer gets a wired network connection
<bigcalm> Which may be an indication of a faulty phone
<intrbiz> bigcalm: or phone configuration
<bigcalm> Humm
<bigcalm> Hadn't thought of that
<bigcalm> I did a factory reset on it when we got them. Will poke the web interface
 * bigcalm shakes fist at Cisco
<intrbiz> :)
<bigcalm> I'm not sure I can see if it's even an option to enable/disable the shared network connection
<davmor2> bigcalm: I wonder is port forwarding is disabled on factory resets :D
<intrbiz> bigcalm: what cisco is it?
<bigcalm> My guess was that the phone acted as a hub
<davmor2> bigcalm: read the manual?
<bigcalm> intrbiz: Cisco IP Phone 303
 * bigcalm unplugs Adam's phone again
<bigcalm> Yep
<bigcalm> I just plugged Adam's phone into my PC and the network worked again
<bigcalm> Definitely something to do with this desk phone
 * bigcalm pinches his boss' phone
<intrbiz> bigcalm: BTW if your going to use the phone pass through, then presumably you'll only get a 100Mb/s connection for your workstation
<bigcalm> intrbiz: yes, this is very true. But the wifi still appears to be a little dodgy in here
<intrbiz> sigh, solaris with only vi installed :( I want vim
<zmoylan-pi> be nice or we'll remove vi and leave you with edlin... :-)
<intrbiz> zmoylan-pi: echo is actually easier to append the lines i need
<popey> slowlaris still exists?
<intrbiz> popey: apparently :(, it's a PITA when ever I stumble onto one of them
<diplo> We have a few customers still running them :/
<awilkins> NHS still runs Solaris boxes to host Oracle
<awilkins> (At the HSCIC)
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: Hasn't Orcale been given the boot (mostly)? Seem to recall a big change as part of SPINE2 (might be the wrong project).
<TwistedLucidity> Switches to some F/OSS NoSQL database or summat
<intrbiz> TwistedLucidity: IIRC moved to riak I think
<daftykins> chap in #ubuntu is claiming he's running swap on a $2 USB 3.0 flash drive because it's faster than swap on HDD
<shauno> hm.  it might be ?
<zmoylan-pi> if it's cached in ooooooodles of ram and he's doing next to nothing he might just delude himself
<shauno> (although if he's swapping often enough to matter, he's solving the wrong problem)
<popey> daftykins: I don't believe insulting people in #ubuntu is actually being a good person.
<daftykins> uh-huh
<zmoylan-pi> the proper approved method is to meet them by appointment and hit them with a wet fish? :-)
<daftykins> there's only so much crazy helpee i can take :P
<popey> take a break.
<zmoylan-pi> yet you hand around here... :-P
<zmoylan-pi> *hang
<popey> nobody is forcing you
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: :D
<daftykins> popey: oh get off your high horse
<popey> Excuse me?
<daftykins> ...
<awilkins> What's wrong with swapping to a USB3 drive?
<awilkins> Windows has a specific feature for swapping to a USB drive
<awilkins> "ReadyBoost"
<daftykins> *chuckle*
<zmoylan-pi> the same windows that calls it's first hard drive c as a and b are reserved for floppy drives?
<shauno> if the drive itself is up to snuff, it seems logical.  the transport is faster than his hdd, seek times will be faster, etc
<TwistedLucidity> Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight!
<TwistedLucidity> shauno: I think you are right, if USB3 is solving the "problem"...then he has solved the wrong problem.
<shauno> the main catch will simply be that thumbdrives tend to use 'bottom of the barrel' flash
<TwistedLucidity> Might be worth cleaning the HDD out and giving it a few checks.
 * awilkins may actually stick a drive in for ReadyBoosting
<TwistedLucidity> I guess things could aso depend on what tasks they have running.
<zmoylan-pi> and how full the hd is
<TwistedLucidity> Is anything battering the HDD to heck; etc
<awilkins> Already using the Linux equivalent (bcache) on my laptop
<daftykins> swap kills NAND.
<awilkins> Maybe use bcache instead
<awilkins> Not swap, frequent read caching
<daftykins> well, you changed the topic :)
<awilkins> Yeah
<awilkins> For swap... I'd probably just shove more RAM into the box
<awilkins> I tend to regard it as a failure if I consume any of my swap
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: Assuming there is space.
<shauno> I wouldn't say 'any', some things make perfect sense to page out no matter how much ram you have
<awilkins> TwistedLucidity, Well, true
<awilkins> shauno, What would you page out if you had enough RAM to accomodate it?
<shauno> anything that's in ram but isn't actually being used
<TwistedLucidity> As my desktop mobo maxes out at 4GB; being able to bung in a stickl and treat it as ram/ramdisc/swap would be neat
<TwistedLucidity> Not that I have USB3 either....
<daftykins> a long-term inactive program
<shauno> if a process hasn't been touched for hours, it may still make more sense to page it and use the phy for disk caching
<shauno> there's always something useful you can do with 'free' ram, otherwise it's wasted
<TwistedLucidity> shauno: Which is where you get to read blogs post like "XYZ is soooooo bloated...it ate all my RAMz!" because a bunch of stuff was cached/pre-fetched or whatever
<shauno> they can rant all they like, their blog posts don't slow down my machines :)
<TwistedLucidity> shauno: That will do if too many JS scripts go nuts!
<shauno> I think 'frequent swap' should be the metric, rather than the quantity.  if you're shuffling stuff constantly you're hitting limits.  it should be a dusty shelf.
<daftykins> that's a good analogy
<diddledan> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-31824040
 * bashrc_ does not care about the antics of Jeremy Clarkson
<daftykins> nor i
<zmoylan-pi> depends on what distro he's using
<awilkins> He probably uses a small Chinese boy called Kevin to manage his appointments
<shauno> lol, ireland's accidentally legalized class A narcotics.  until tomorrow.
<diddledan> shauno: \o/
<diddledan> how'd that occur?
<shauno> seems the previous 1977 act didn't go through the full process
<shauno> http://www.thejournal.ie/tds-emergency-laws-drugs-1983239-Mar2015/
<zmoylan-pi> party like your stash depends on it
<shauno> heh, no stash here.  my mind's the only thing I've got going for me, so I'm hanging on to it
<shauno> it's just funny.  "whoops".
<diddledan> eh? sinn fein wants ex-pats to be able to vote for irish things?
<diddledan> s/irish/homeland/
<zmoylan-pi> how many generations removed expats?
<diddledan> well exactly
<diddledan> it's a footnote in the article shauno linked: The need for emergency legislation means that Sinn Feinâs private membersâ bill, which calls for emigrants to be allowed vote in presidential elections, has been postponed to tomorrow evening between 6.30pm and 9.30pm.
<shauno> that actually sounds like one of the more sane things they've put their name to
<diddledan> lol
<shauno> I'd be allowed to vote in the UK, if I'd registered before I left
<diddledan> well the whole "why not blow up britain" thing went well for them
<shauno> (you remain registered in your last constituency.  if you never registered, you're a plonker, apparently)
<zmoylan-pi> it did, it made the uk negotiate after ignoring them blowing up northern ireland for decades :-/
<diddledan> it's actually illegal not to register to vote in the uk
<shauno> I didn't register because there wasn't anything to vote for in the 2 years between turning 18, and leaving the country
<diddledan> get out quick?
<diddledan> "I'm legal now, so I'm leaving!"
<shauno> kinda.  the age was relevant because <21 meant I could ride me ma's coattails into the states
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> cheaky monkey
<davmor2> popey: talking of nethacks there is a qtnethacks you know you want to port it to the phone you know you do ;)
 * popey adds to the list of a million things
<davmor2> popey: pffff if it isn't a million things that need doing today I'm not interested ;)
<popey> :)
<foobarry> i thought android was supposed to only restore to the same device
<popey> que?
<foobarry> powered on my new hudl and my other tablet apps got restored onto it
<foobarry> have you rooted yours popey ?
<popey> nope
<davmor2> foobarry: nope restores all apps it's an option somewhere
<foobarry> davmor2, i was reading earlier today that it does it based on IMEI
<foobarry> or other uniq id
<popey> you rooted yours?
<foobarry> there isn't a root package for my build (201501*)
<davmor2> foobarry: I'm quite happy with mine just working so I'm not bothering to root it or flash it
<foobarry> so many branded apps makes me feel like i'm using an OEM windows build
<foobarry> rooting makes it so....clean
<foobarry> oh there is a root method for my build,
<diddledan> sudo?
<diddledan> :-p
<foobarry> just lots of bricked devices..unsure if numpties or other
<diddledan> pretend you're a numpty and blindly go ahead
<davmor2> foobarry: you can swicth off the tesco stuff and install the google now page that is my setup
<diddledan> on your marks, google.... NOW!
<foobarry> might spend myvouchers first :P
<diddledan> vouchers ftw!
<diddledan> I wonder if there's a world record of googling who googled google the fastest?
<foobarry> lollipop has some hateful changes
<foobarry> updated my phone today and some are annoying
<zmoylan-pi> updates these days seem more risky than ever.
<foobarry> thats another reason for rootage
<zmoylan-pi> updated mxplayer on my 7" tablet and found it wouldn't play audio on half my media files till i found out why
<foobarry> oh app updates,yeah
<foobarry> why was the mxplayer faily?#
<zmoylan-pi> ms pushed out an update to my dumbphone which turned on data 24x7 till i noticed and deleted it
<zmoylan-pi> they had a licence issue with dolby so had to remove it.  however they have an extension playform for the player so you could 'find' a file and copy it to their extension library and hey presto sound again
<zmoylan-pi> but happened at a time when my insomnia had me on 8 hours sleep over 3 days so took me a while to find and install
<foobarry> "Top Gear host Jeremy Clarkson has been suspended by the BBC "following a fracas" with a producer"
<foobarry> heh
<foobarry> i just discovered Peep Show
<zmoylan-pi> was the fracas on film? would be most watched top gear ever
<foobarry> never seen it before. watched it over lunch and had to hold my mouth to stop laughing in the office
<shauno> lol, Turkey are banning Minecraft because it's too violent for children
<shauno> I cannot facepalm hard enough
<diddledan> eh?
<diddledan> punching trees?
<shauno> http://kotaku.com/calls-to-ban-minecraft-in-turkey-1690487386
<zmoylan-pi> well they wanted to ban twitter too didn't they?
<shauno> but they haven't banned call of duty, grand theft auto, battlefield, etc
<foobarry> i tried the Â£3 of free paypal credit in google play. did not work. had to get a refund
<mapp> wonder how that happened my pi was set t use almost all memory for the gpu
<mapp> which was why it was so slow installing anything
<Azelphur> So here's a fun question I've never actually looked into before, if you want to revoke SSH access to a server, what's the procedure?
<Azelphur> I know change the password obviously, but I'm not sure what to do key wise
<shauno> the host key shouldn't need to be changed, just make sure the user's authorized_keys is gone?
<Azelphur> ah I see, so that'd be .ssh/authorized_keys, there's only one entry in there and it's me, so it's safe to say the person hasn't taken the keys and I just change the password and I'm good?
<shauno> you've been sharing an account?
<Azelphur> shauno: yea, it's a server so they have access to the relevant account for that
<shauno> but no sudo access etc?
<Azelphur> yea no sudo access
<Azelphur> it's not a crazy situation where they are gonna break back in, I just wanna know the procedure really :)
<shauno> usually they'd have their own account, so when you blow away their $HOME, their keys go with it
<Azelphur> hehe
<shauno> but unless they have your private key, it's safe to assume they've been logging in with a password, so that's all you've got to tidy up
<Azelphur> yea
<intrbiz> Azelphur: clean out ~/.ssh/authorized_keys and if you wish you can also deny the user in the sshd config
<Azelphur> yea :)
<intrbiz> Azelphur: and or remove the user acount as required
<popey> !rat
<lubotu3> rat is The Real Ale Train. A yearly Ubuntu UK loco event to celebrate friends, trains and ale. Saturday 19th September 2015 Hampshire, UK: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/3040-real-ale-train-2015/
<dutchie> \o/ rat
<Azelphur> hmm, Council is apparently reviewing my Council Tax band...
<Azelphur> not sure if good or bad thing...
<Azelphur> Also question, does anyone know whether it's cheaper to buy a ticket to London, then use my Oyster card in London, vs booking a ticket for the full journey online?
<shauno> hm.  awkward.  I've lost a microsd card
<diddledan> oh thanks for reminding me I've got old, buffy the vampire slayer premiered 18 years ago today
<diddledan> shauno: it's stuck in a thingy somewhere
<shauno> probably
<shauno> I've even checked where they normally go - the roomba's rearend
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> is it legal to inspect a roomba's behind?
<shauno> more than legal, it's mandatory
<diddledan> oh myyy
<shauno> if neglected, it gets all stuffed up and starts leaving dustball 'droppings' everywhere
<diddledan> do you have to creep up on it so as not to frighten it off?
<shauno> nah, you just need to know how to push its buttons
<diddledan> pervert!
<shauno> although I cheat, I got a remote for it
<diddledan> you mean it's at your beck and call?
<shauno> the remote is highly recommended.  you can take control and drive it around like a little toy :)
<diddledan> isn't that classed as M&Ms?
<diddledan> or maybe skittles?
#ubuntu-uk 2015-03-11
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/EmrgencyKittens/status/575452372203257859/photo/1
<mapp> hi all
<MooDoo> morning all
<diplo> Morning MooDoo
<knightWorK> yo peeps
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> morning
<zmoylan-pi> morning mammals
<brobostigon> morning
<Myrtti> time of day
<shauno> at the third tone, the time sponsored by accurist will be bacon-3
<zmoylan-pi> *bark*
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy World Plumbing Day! :-D
<zmoylan-pi> put that in a pipe and smoke it
<TwistedLucidity> They must be flushed with success
<davmor2> JamesTait: It'sa Me.....It'sa Mario!!!!!
<JamesTait> davmor2, that was yesterday. https://www.daysoftheyear.com/days/mario-day/
<davmor2> JamesTait: But Mario is the worlds most famous plumber :P
<zmoylan-pi> nah, al gore, he invented the internet which is a series of tubes
<JamesTait> Not Linus Torvalds? http://linuxplumbersconf.org/2015/
<JamesTait> It's a sign of how geeky I am that the word "plumbers" means that, rather than someone who installs and fixes things like water pipes.
<JamesTait> I should probably get out more.
<bashrc_> maintaining is probably not unlike plumbing
<bashrc_> fixing leaks...
<Myrtti> a smart person would've checked the wind speed before laying out the laundry on an outdoor clothes line
<zmoylan-pi> the rain told me today was not a good day to dry /klingon
<Myrtti> clear blue skies here
<foobarry> here too
<foobarry> well, brick walls and a little patch of sky at the top from where i'm sitting
<diplo> Had blue skies all morning but the temperature has plummeted now and gone all grey :(
<MooDoo> grey and overcast here
<zmoylan-pi> rain all night with gusts of wind, very wintery.
<davmor2> popey: mvm hard is definitely more like Extreme MDK mode :D
<popey> davmor2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m56Tfyy9fWI - mvm music in that video
<davmor2> popey: uu level 72 start to get cramped too,  that video is hilarious and the music is definitely mvm
<ChunkzZ1> does anyone know of any sites like novatech for barebones pc's?
<ujjain> is indoor shooting something you can do with friends in the UK?
<ujjain> or mostly clay pidgeon shooting?
<zmoylan-pi> i believe the house of westminster has a rifle range...
<davmor2> ujjain: Wolverhampton has an Olympic grade indoor shooting range
<ujjain> ah nice
<ujjain> house of westminster? :o
<ujjain> that could be cool, although a bit far, let me do some googling
<davmor2> ujjain: there are plenty across the country I just know the one at wolverhampton
<ujjain> ah yeah, but by public transport might be tricky
<davmor2> ujjain: no the riffles and stuff would be at the club rather than at home
<popey> ujjain: bisley has a lot of ranges
<popey> easy to get to from london
<ujjain> ahah thanks
<ujjain> I have signed up 2 times for a bank account and 2 times the bank made a misatke and opened a wrong bank account and immediately closed it, it shows up as lending facility requested 2 times. Does this hurt my credit score?
<marshmn> hi; I understand that a number of SSDs have built-in hardware encryption functionality - are such things supported by Ubuntu/Linux? I'm not having much luck finding out info on it
<mapp> what phone to get..hmmm needs to be dual sim which limits choices a bit:)
<mapp> does anyone have a smart watch?
<shauno> not yet.  they don't have a pre-order date for Ireland yet :(
<daftykins> best error today
<daftykins> XFS: file system too large to be mounted on this system.
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> turns out a 32-bit host can't mount >16TB volumes
<shauno> oops
<daftykins> nah it's fine, his file server has 10.04.4 still on it, so i need to reinstall anyway :)
<shauno> you still have 32bit hosts?  it's a Pi ?
<daftykins> 2GB RAM pentium dual core file server
<daftykins> dedi headless
<shauno> ooh
<shauno> I miss the p4 era
<shauno> especially when my heating's bust
<daftykins> nah this was LGA775, so it's an E2180 i think
<daftykins> http://ark.intel.com/products/31733/Intel-Pentium-Processor-E2180-1M-Cache-2_00-GHz-800-MHz-FSB
<shauno> actually, I still have a dual-quad-xeon around here somewhere
<daftykins> :D
<shauno> I might have to hook up that arduino thermometer thing and see if it actually can raise the room temp
<daftykins> i've booted a live session of 14.04 and am rsync'ing the old array to the new, now
<daftykins> with --progress \o/
<daftykins> i'm updating a tomtom for someone right now 0o
<daftykins> he went to Malaga and had no roads to escape the airport apparently :D
<shauno> not a bug, it's a feature - they do this to the GB models intentionally ;)
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> just doing a 1.4GB map update 0o
<m0nkey_> lol, this article has convinced me to drop OSX in favor of Ubuntu or Fedora.. http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=macbook_yosemite_4way&num=1 :)
<foobarry> why not opensuse
<foobarry> seems a clear winner
<m0nkey_> that means downloading another iso :-P
<diddledan> just got my birthday prezzie together - a nice new shiny chair
<mapp> nice
<mapp> :D
<diddledan> it's 1) comfy, 2) silent when I wheel it about
<mapp> a good chairs a wise investment
<diddledan> my old one had got squeeky
<diddledan> indeed
<mapp> the arms fell off my chair
<diddledan> oops
<mapp> cheap rubbish though from argos
<diddledan> aah
<mapp> so shouldnt be surprised:)
<mapp> literally they snapped lol
<diddledan> this one's an Â£80ish
<mapp> ok i was leaning on it..but still
<diddledan> lol
<mapp> cool first dates is back
<mapp> quite like that show
<shauno> I've just started with 'black sails'.  desperately running out of TV
<mapp> heard its good
<mapp> on season 1 shauno?
<daftykins> i made a hilarious blunder today
<mapp> gah i cant find my pension application form
<mapp> bought it home to read and fill out and now..no idea where i put it
<daftykins> i changed my xbox live account to be based in Guernsey... fired up the old xbox360, "sorry there is no xbox live in your region"
<mapp> lol
<daftykins> thanks Microsoft
<daftykins> do any of you guys understand this weird loophole about online transactions for digital content being allowed to charge VAT from the originating country of the service?
<daftykins> presumably xbox live is based in Ireland so they can charge people VAT from there on their downloads
<ali1234> what's to understand?
<daftykins> why it's allowed :)
<ali1234> it isn't
<ali1234> since 1st of jan they changed the rules
<daftykins> oh is this the funny named thing that's causing business in Ireland to get the squeeze?
<ali1234> yes
<daftykins> hrmmm
<ali1234> now you have to pay VAT in the country where the service is used
<ali1234> which means you have to deal with VAT laws from 30 odd different countries
<ali1234> and the threshold where you have to register for VAT is no longer 80k, it's now 0
<ali1234> because some countries don't have any threshold
<daftykins> which is no doubt why they refuse to offer the service to Guernsey residents
<ali1234> meanwhile the multinational companies this law was supposed to target just moved their business out of the EU entirely and then carry on as before
<shauno> beacuse there's only 3 of you.  It'd cost them more in time than they'd gain from sales :)
<daftykins> "we'd have to deal with VAT refunds then!"
<daftykins> shauno: :D there is that, true
<mapp> does it affect us as consumers?
<mapp> we'd be paying VAT anyway?
<daftykins> now you probably get to pay the UK rate instead of the Irish rate, i dunno which it picks
<shauno> I'm not sure why it'd squeeze ireland much, VAT is 20% here.  it's corporate tax that's easy
<daftykins> Irish VAT is 20% as well?
<shauno> 23 apparently
<intrbiz> IIRC there is an exception for tailored content, which is modified for each purchase
<shauno> but only 4.8% on cattle apparently.  you're not buying cows on xbox are you?
<daftykins> shauno: maybe... my Guernsey Golds need some friends
<daftykins> Cow Simulator for xbox
<shauno> hm.  there's a man in a van down the road, who stores random animals in abandoned lots.  I might be able to hook you up :)
<shauno> I have no idea what he's doing this week.  they look like really hairy baby horses
<daftykins> there is one amusing thing, i buy xbox credit from amazon.co.uk VAT free to add to my account... so technically i get more money than i pay for :D
<daftykins> here we are, Â£10 of xbox credit from amazon - Â£8.33 :D
<shauno> and you wonder why it might be easier to just say no :)
<mapp> so it makes no diff to me pay samwe tax really?
<mapp> nice daftykins
<daftykins> shauno: hmm? no to...?
<shauno> for xbox to just say no to .ge
<shauno> instead of having money going backwards
<daftykins> y'mean .gg? :>
<daftykins> (that's our TLD)
<shauno> -_-
<daftykins> funny thing is my mates just have their bank cards on their accounts so it comes direct
<daftykins> i only discovered this loophole recently, i used to buy credit on ebay
<shauno> random, I found out recently that Kosovo doesn't have a two-letter iso thingie
<mapp> hate losing stuff such a windup :( really
<mapp> what do they have shauno
<shauno> that's it.  they just .. don't
<shauno> they use .xk I think, because .x* are reserved for nothing
<mapp> hm
<mapp> oh
<shauno> but it's not 'theirs'
<shauno> it seems whoever assigns these is so glacial they make the civil service look good
<mapp> strange eh
<mapp> .gi for gib
<mapp> altho think my hostname is .com
<mapp> gibconnect.com
<shauno> that's kinda normal it seems.  it seems in most cases, the smaller the registry, the more they try to milk it
<daftykins> ^ i have to renew my .gg soon, Â£45 a year =|
<daftykins> Â£90 to register + first 12 months
<daftykins> i've been thinking about talking to a local politician to ask why local business isn't allowed to show off their proud locality, due to being screwed for the rates ;)
<intrbiz> shauno: IIRC Kosovo currently has the temporary code XK until it is reconised by the UN at which point ISO can issue it an official code
<shauno> huh, I didn't realise they weren't recognised yet.  just that they hadn't been given an official designation
<intrbiz> shauno: Kosovo is currently not a member of the UN as 85 countries do not still recognise it
<diddledan> including russia?
<intrbiz> diddledan: yes
<diddledan> who'd have thunk it
<intrbiz> indeed
<diddledan> to be fair to russia, they just want to recreate the ussr
<intrbiz> diddledan: I think they'd like to keep control of the imporant bits of it
<intrbiz> it always amuses me the people who think the UK's country code is UK rather than GB
<diddledan> so who's got UK? :-p
<intrbiz> no one
<diddledan> ukraine?
<intrbiz> Ukraine is UA
<diddledan> obviously
<intrbiz> UK is reserve on our request
<diddledan> UA surely fits UAE better, no?
<intrbiz> the codes are derived from the elements of a country name which are not generic
<diddledan> i.e. dubai
<intrbiz> diddledan: nope
<diddledan> aren't letters kinda generic tho
<intrbiz> the terms: United, Kingdom, etc are not used to derive the code
<diddledan> I mean A is surely in a lot of country names
<intrbiz> diddledan: UAE is just AE
<diddledan> I like how we're the only country I'm aware of that needs to tell other people that they're impressive, important etc.
<diddledan> we're not just Britain, we're GREAT
<diddledan> oh yeah, and northern ireland
<diddledan> we ignore them tho and hope they'll be quiet for once
<intrbiz> diddledan: United Kingdom of Great Britian and Northen Ireland
<diddledan> I propose replacing Great with Amazing
<intrbiz> diddledan: Awesome ?
<daftykins> horribly US word :P
<diddledan> Most Excellent?
<intrbiz> Honourable
<diddledan> that's a joke, right?
<diddledan> *cough* GCHQ *cough&
<diddledan> "Ah did not have sexual relations with that internet"
<shauno> it's not amazing.  it's "big".  big britain, little britain.  grand britain, britany
<diddledan> obviously by "sexual relations" we refer to the dictionary for the words "Rape" and "Pillage"
<diddledan> shauno: kinda like the midget insists he's tall for his age?
<intrbiz> We could simplify to: Great British Empire
<diddledan> what empire?
<diddledan> we gave it all back
<diddledan> and ever since they've all been killing each other
<intrbiz> we can invade again
<diddledan> good idea. how are you fixed for tuesday?
<diddledan> I can pencil-in an invasion for the weekend if time is of the essence?
<diddledan> the question, though, do we let them know we're about to conquer them or let them find out when they wake up?
<intrbiz> they'll find out when we erect the flag
<diddledan> like america did when they conquered iraq?
<diddledan> "mission accomplished"
<diddledan> I say lets have a bipartisan empire with the americans - we get the middle bit and america gets the two sides
<diddledan> obviously on american maps that's back asswards
<diddledan> jeez, chrisccoulson died?
<diddledan> [23:38:00] 	chrisccoulson (~chr1s@ubuntu/member/chrisccoulson) left IRC (Quit: OSError: [Errno 130] Owner died)
<intrbiz> never knew IRC was so deadly
<intrbiz> must have been some kind of virus
<diddledan> maybe. or skynet
<intrbiz> or the sky falling down
<diddledan> I'd be crushed if that happened to me
<daftykins> IRC is already a life sucker, but to kill? :(
<daftykins> i replaced the boss' Lenovo X240 Intel 180GB SSD with a 512GB Crucial MX100 today \o/
<daftykins> he's letting me keep the old one D:
<intrbiz> daftykins: nice
<diddledan> http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/31843001 <-- does that mean you're allowed to post porn that does have their consent?
<daftykins> i may put it in the old girl's new laptop
<intrbiz> diddledan: I believe pornograghic pictures are permitted under the T&Cs
<diddledan> really?
<intrbiz> assuming they are legal
<diddledan> hmm, I'll keep an eye out then
<daftykins> brb host restart coming up
<diddledan> daftykins: your local system or a proxyish thing/
<daftykins> hilariously i IRC from a Linux VM atop a Windows host :D
<daftykins> so patch tuesday it is
<diddledan> that was yesterday!
<daftykins> yeah i delayed :P
<diddledan> teehee
<daftykins> also we only get it at 6pm of course since that's early Seattle time :>
<diddledan> yeah it means that wednesday in most businesses must be rather fraught with panic
<intrbiz> diddledan: @porn
#ubuntu-uk 2015-03-12
<ali1234> what program is responsible for popping up the window that says "you must reboot your computer to complete updates"
<mapp> no idea
<mapp> :D
<mapp> damnit too awake to sleep
<mapp> what to do
<daftykins> i'm streaming this new game Ori and the Blind Forest atm
<daftykins> oh dear it's nearly 2am already :S
<daftykins> http://twitch.tv/daftpunkle
<celesteh> Hello, I have a question about wifi authentification, specifically eduroam which uses PEAP. Every other device on earth automagically deals with certififcates, but with ubuntu I seem to need to manually download a certififcate for each institution. Is there some way this can happen without my interaction?
<daftykins> might want to try #ubuntu since the UK is mostly asleep right now
<diddledan> ssh, tis sleepymoo time
<diddledan> daftykins: this stream better be playing daft punk :-p
<diddledan> ooh pretty
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> lovely game so far
<Azelphur> Does anyone know wtf "player" is, and why it's using 13.3% of my 24GB of RAM? XD
<daftykins> O_O
<daftykins> what a weird total, you on a quad channel box?
<Azelphur> daftykins: tri
<daftykins> ah
<daftykins> had to reset the boss' sky box again today, damn those things are rubbish
<zmoylan-pi> connect a rasp pi to a cd drive and put something on the cd drive to press the reset button so you can do it remotely? :-)
<daftykins> haha, oh i meant power cycle really
<daftykins> amusingly i was asked by the wife to go look at a problem the nanny was having watching TV
<zmoylan-pi> could do that to with a second cd drive :-)
<daftykins> i went to where the skybox is, wasn't even displaying a picture over HDMI to the TV - only over the RF output to the rest of the house
<zmoylan-pi> yeah i was once asked to look at a washing machine after fixing a computer at someones house
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> lmao
<daftykins> did you politely refuse?
<zmoylan-pi> oddly i fixed the washing machine too.  some wacky ui problem.  simple rtfm problem
<daftykins> good man \o/
<mapp> good tv tonight
<mapp> yay
 * zmoylan-pi watches st 4 the voyage home
<mapp> crim minds then sunny in philly
<mapp> yay
<mapp> black sails good? i didnt fancy it when i looked it up
<mapp> but several people say its good
<mapp> daftykins?
<mapp> anyone seen vikings? just looking through series to pickup;]
<zmoylan-pi> i've watched season 1
<mapp> decent?
<mapp> i quite like watching entire seasons after its finished airing..watch a whole season in a few days:)
<zmoylan-pi> it's... ok.  i'd have preferred more historical accuracy
<mapp> started Oz but not really bothered by it
<mapp> did you check that CSI:Cyber? i did even after diddledan said it wasnt great
<mapp> and james van der beerk is SUCH A POOR choice for main character imo
<mapp> another show with potential ruined by poor casting
<mapp> lol workaholics is so funny
<knightwise> morning peeps
<diplo> Morning all
<knightwise> hey diplo , morning to you
<MooDoo> morning all
<knightwise> morning peeps
<knightwise> hey MooDoo
<knightwise> how are you doing today
<knightwise> hey michelle :)
<Guest1848> Knightwise Hey :)
<davmor2> Morning all
<knightwise> hey davmor2
<ujjain> Can somebody running an updated 12.04 check with kernel they run? I run 3.2.0-38-virtual and think it might be outdated.
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy World Kidney Day! :-D
<foobarry>  3.13.0-40-generic #69~precise1-Ubuntu SMP
<foobarry> ujjain: 12.04 has the option of running kernels from later releases
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<ujjain> ah ok, thanks.
<bashrc_> g'day
<foobarry> a user wants a different home dir on another partition, but we won't change it. what should i suggest? edit his .bashrc to drop him somewhere else with cd command? or change $HOME in his bashrc?
 * davmor2 makes JamesTait eat steak and kidney pies till he can't move
<JamesTait> davmor2, oh no, how terrible. :-P
<davmor2> JamesTait: it would be you'd never want to eat another steak and kidney pie again as long as you lived :D
<JamesTait> davmor2, I can't imagine that ever happening, tbh. :-P
<foobarry> what happens on kidney day
<shauno> no-one finishes dinner :(
<JamesTait> foobarry, current experience suggests "the same kind of things that happen any other day".
<shauno> we take over the world?
<JamesTait> foobarry, also, I don't think I fully understood your earlier question, could you expand?
<davmor2> foobarry: a lot of them are illness awareness days so it might be don't drink and give them a holiday, or become a donor day
<shauno> this is interesting; http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-31834927
<shauno> seems a shame they can't partner with the pi foundation
<knightwise> ttytter ... eating up all the cpu cycles on my Pi. #badttytter !
<JamesTait> "World Kidney Day aims to raise awareness of kidney-related diseases and of the overall importance of our kidneys to our health. It also tries to highlight preventative measures, in an attempt to reduce the frequency and impact of kidney disease and related health problems, on a global scale."
<foobarry> JamesTait: the kidney or home dir question?
<foobarry> so kidney day is not about food
<JamesTait> foobarry, the home dir one.
<foobarry> user says please can my home dir be /data/DEPT/work/barry instead of /data/home/barry
<foobarry> we say no, for standards reasons
<foobarry> whats the next best thing?
<foobarry> change the $HOME env variable, change bashrc to perform a "cd /data/DEPT..barry" command?
<foobarry> create symlinks to work/barry and cd manually?
<JamesTait> Hmmm.
<diplo> I'd just go with No and not explain yourself
<diplo> :)
<diplo> Whether I try to be tactful or not, it never seems to be understood by users, has he given any reasoning behind why apart from that's what he'd like
<shauno> changing $HOME breaks more than it fixes
<shauno> eg, if I set HOME=/tmp, "cd ~" takes me to /tmp, and cd ~soneil takes me to /home/soneil.  things will just get weird in subtle ways
<shauno> if you have a good reason not to do it "the right way", I'd just accept that as a good reason not to do it the wrong way either
<JamesTait> This makes me think about how ecryptfs homes work; after you login, it tries to unwrap the ecryptfs passphrase using the login password, then mounts /home/.ecryptfs/$USER/.Private as /home/$USER and then you have to cd $HOME to see the unencrypted contents. But that doesn't involve messing with $HOME.
<JamesTait> But I think shauno is right - twiddling with $HOME after the login session has already started is just likely to make things misbehave in weird and wonderful ways that are difficult to debug.
<shauno> I guess you could do something similar to that with mount --bind
<diddledan> re: the micro bit. I can't actually find out any information on the device itself
<diddledan> it looks like it might be custom built for the beeb like the micro was in the 80s
<DJones> diddledan: Have you seen this http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/mediapacks/makeitdigital/micro-bit?ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_press_office&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=corporate
<diddledan> DJones: yeah, that's where I am now
<DJones> ok, litteraly just saw it on twitter
<shauno> I guess the final line is probably the biggest clue.  they won't say what's in it because they're not sure yet
<DJones> Ugh, I hate websites that start playing music as soon as you go on them, just going through the product partners listed, sciencescope is just a holding page, technology will save us starts blasting music when you go there
<foobarry> yeah, i said no, because standards, housekeeping and consistency reasons
<foobarry> but you might wanna make some symlinks to make hopping directories easier
<diddledan> I think my head just exploded: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=72RqpItxd8M
<foobarry> is it in 3d?
<popey> woah
<popey> they got a lot of things right in that
<MooDoo> :D
<foobarry> what the name for the first steps of troubleshooting you might do in a technical incident? if i'm putting a list of the 5 essential pieces of information for an app (how to restart, config files, server, typical issues), what's a good name for that?
<foobarry> its not a complete guide, just the barebone essentials of each app/service that might solve 90% of issues while the main guy is away
<popey> PD
<popey> Problem Diagnosis
<popey> it's what we always called it.
<foobarry> there's a term i'm trying to think of relating to the first steps or essential info
<foobarry> maybe i'll just write essential info for initial analysis of problems
<foobarry> or PD
<foobarry> for short
<popey> :)
<popey> been using ddrescue to backup a usb3 disk in a usb2 port
<popey> taking hours
<diddledan> foobarry: emergency response?
<foobarry> nice try, but i realise that i'm looking for a word in my brain that you guys do not know, which is a bit hard
<foobarry> i might use that term as well thoguh
<diddledan> try uberflipperamus
<JamesTait> foobarry, triage?
<diddledan> ooh, that's a good one
<foobarry> heh
<foobarry> triage is useful for routing issues, this is ServiceEssentials for EmergencyResponse and ProblemDiagnosis, but we do name the service owner for triage too
<foobarry> gonna go eat a sandwich
<knightwise> Vms are the bomb :)
<knightwise> instead of dual booting the mac , i'm just shoving in a linux Vm fullscreen .. Works like a charm .. no driver trouble
<diddledan> knightwise: which vm software you using to drive the machine?
<diddledan> knightwise: btw, I absolutely loved your spock tribute episode! made me tearful :'(
<diddledan> leonard nimoy**
<knightwise> diddledan: :) thanx . I'm glad to hear you loved the show. Took me a while to mix the music and samples down.
<knightwise> its a mix between the movie soundtrack and a live performance of amazing grace
<knightwise> I use virtualbox , the guest os is Chromixium
<knightwise> diddledan: The goal I set out when I recorded the episode was : When I get one listener to tear up ... my goal has been achieved
<diddledan> mission accomplished :-)
<diddledan> teehee
<knightwise> :) Radio/podcasts are a powerfull medium for transmitting emotions ...
<knightwise> i love working with music and moods and stuff
<foobarry> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-31834927
<foobarry> whats this all about?
<diddledan> foobarry: kids like chips, so we're giving them some for free when they go to secondary school
<diddledan> (11 is secondary school, right?)
<diddledan> or is 11 last year of primary?
<foobarry> Microsoft
<foobarry> are involved :|
<TwistedLucidity> Good - we need children to learn these vital skills /s
<knightwise> listening to american radio commercials on Stitcher .. my god !
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: One wonders what was so terribly wrong with the Pi2. Ready-built community, already entering schools, will be able to run Windows.
<TwistedLucidity> When the BBC Micro launched, it was a bit of a different beast to those on the market at the time. This "Bit" seems very like a "Me too!" product.
<foobarry> microsoft weren't in on it?
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: They "in on" the Pi2.
<foobarry> NIH syndrome?
<foobarry> can't support an existing initiative?
<TwistedLucidity> That's probably more correct. Or perhaps this is even cheaper?
<foobarry> they will get crushed in school bags anyway
<TwistedLucidity> Sell the kids cases.
<TwistedLucidity> Kerr-ching!
<popey> ooh https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/modiphius/the-thunderbirds-co-operative-board-game-by-matt-l
<TwistedLucidity> FAB
<knightwise> anything that features the thunderbirds is great in my book :)
<knightwise> fafafafaaaaa ... !
<zmoylan-pi> will they not have to pay a huge licence fee for the rights to use thunderbirds name?
<knightwise> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok7J17rGI3s&gl=BE ) just to prove barry Gray's brilliance :)
<shauno> ugh, the pi won't be able to 'run windows'.  I can't wait until this win-IoT is actually released so people can see what they're claiming
<TwistedLucidity> shauno: Will, it won't be "Windows 10 Modern UI Professional Enterprise Edition Plus" or whatever. But it will be Windows and if it can pump graphics to the screen - that's enough
<zmoylan-pi> it'll be huge, cost a bundle, have a sucky battery life and the biggest button will be the reset button to clear errors and restart it
<foobarry> the metro newspaper have pioneeered an r of shame like the daily mail, but it never ends
<foobarry> the page keeps on scrolling forever
<shauno> it won't have a shell, it won't run more than one process .. just how little is 'enough' ?
<foobarry> its enough for MS and PHB
<knightwise> anyone have a pi2 yet ?
 * foobarry doesn't have a pi1
<diddledan> TwistedLucidity: it won't be able to pump graphics to a screen tho
<foobarry> although i borrowed one to try risc OS
<shauno> I have two 2's.  I'm not sure how to make a non-silly sentence out of that :)
<diddledan> TwistedLucidity: it's designed to be interacted with via telnet
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: Sure? I'd actually like to know proper details on the limitations. I know someone who wants to use them as an RDP client (they tried some RPi1 and they didn't work so well)
<zmoylan-pi> meant to pick up a pi 2 over the weekend but was busy
<diddledan> I've got 2pi2
<foobarry> pir^2
<diddledan> or should I say, I've got 2pi2, too
<knightwise> foobarry: are they a lot faster ?
<TwistedLucidity> knightwise: ~6 times on average; varies from operation-to-operation though.
<diddledan> foobarry: more like 2pi-d
<diddledan> erm
<diddledan> r
<diddledan> 2pi-r
<diddledan> aka pi-d
<TwistedLucidity> Last months LinuxVoice (I think) had a break-down of the performance differences
<diddledan> it's at least 4 times as fast
<foobarry> when do they opensource their issues?
<shauno> I haven't done anything to particularly tax them yet, but on stuff like emulating a ps1, re-assembling dpkg's caches, etc, it's much betterer
 * diddledan taxes shauno 
<diddledan> 50% rate for you, boy-oh
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: A year after publication. Think the first two issues are now out there
<knightwise> I was wondering if I could use it as a PLEX server
<shauno> and the 'limitations' of win10's pi support is there's no OS.  it's a .net stack running on the pi so that you can treat it like an arduino from visual studio
<diddledan> docker on a mac? http://blog.docker.com/2015/03/kitematic-a-docker-gui-joins-the-docker-family/
<shauno> not docket, just a docker-gui.  you can run docker as a client, to interact with docker running on another machine
<foobarry> http://www.linuxvoice.com/download-linux-voice-issue-4/
<shauno> (there's a 'yo dawg' joke in there somewhere)
<TwistedLucidity> shauno: Is. That. All? Yeek. I assumed it was going to be some kind of knobbled Windows stack with a CLI and (maybe) some way to push/relay graphics. So it really can only be used for GPIO stuff then?
<foobarry> i love the idea
<shauno> right, that's why it's being pushed as an 'internet of things' platform.  it's not a desktop
<foobarry> i'm driving to st albans next week to pick up a massive stash of old magz off a guy
<foobarry> and then may attempt to read or scan them
<foobarry> scanning will destroy them though
 * TwistedLucidity utterly fails to see what anyone would want Windows on a RPi2 in that case
<zmoylan-pi> because management decreed it
 * TwistedLucidity thinks there's w-a-y better tools for those kinds of jobs
<shauno> well, if you're a windows dev in a windows world, you'll be able to build wotsits and run them on a pi, just the same as linux users currently can
<diddledan> shauno: oic (re: docker on a mac) they integrate with this to run docker on a mac rahter than running docker on a mac: http://blog.docker.com/2015/02/announcing-docker-machine-beta/
<TwistedLucidity> If you are a decent dev of any sort, you can get to grips with Python (or whatever) in a day.
<zmoylan-pi> except that i don't see the same guides and instructions for windows on pi popping up at the same rate
<shauno> but as far as I can tell, that's about it.  it lets them do whatever in .net that we've already been doing for 3 years
<TwistedLucidity> I just hope the RPi Foundation doesn't give up on the F/OSS community with MS weighing in.
<diddledan> as far as I can tell regarding windows on pi is that they're able to say it's windows running on a pi because it uses the NT kernel and some basic windows-style initialisation routines
<diddledan> e.g. the services paradigm for background.. erm.. services
<zmoylan-pi> the olpc spent a fair time getting windows working on the olpc
<foobarry> its ARM , are they putting mobile OS on instead?
<diddledan> they're not really putting an OS as most people would define it - they're putting a hardware shim that can run .net executables as shauno said
<foobarry> lamerrific
<diddledan> it's little more than just a kernel and enough libraries to run .net in headless manner
<TwistedLucidity> Guess I'll hear the screams in a bit then, my mate has his company signed-up for some dev-preview type thing.
<diddledan> TwistedLucidity: this? https://dev.windows.com/en-us/featured/windows-developer-program-for-iot
<zmoylan-pi> wince was going to change the mobile market, as was pocket pc, windows mobile and windows phone
<diddledan> I've signed up for that too
<zmoylan-pi> completely unusable
<shauno> right.  the "for IoT" part is the bit people seem to be glossing over
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: windows phone changed the market - it made the apple iphone a compelling choice
<zmoylan-pi> and eliminated nokia
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: Don't think it's that, he deffo said they wanted to use RPi2. Maybe their plans changed.
<diddledan> well the elimination of nokia was mainly due to the elopalypse
<zmoylan-pi> who was hired to make nokia ms digestible
<diddledan> bingo
<diddledan> he has a track record of such things
<diddledan> e.g. macromedia and adobe
 * daftykins steps back, agasp
<daftykins> what's the late night group doing alive at 2pm!?
<diddledan> daftykins: breathe!
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> daftykins: my boss insisted I do some actual daytime work
<shauno> 6am shifts this week, I can'd do the late late show
<zmoylan-pi> insomnia, can't sleep, clown will eat me...
<daftykins> d'aww
<daftykins> for my recent crimes i've been asked to decrapify a Windows machine today :(
<shauno> although I can nap at 3pm, wake up at 5pm like normal and pretend work never happened :)
<diddledan> sounds like shauno had the same talk :-p
<diddledan> oh god, daftykins !
<shauno> nah, I just have a cyclic shift pattern.  this is the 'low' lol
<diddledan> so apple mail has died on me :-(
 * diddledan pokey with a pokey stick
<daftykins> you use it? o0
<zmoylan-pi> isn't saying that in a linux room on irc begging derision? :-)
<diddledan> eah, to access gmail :-p
<diddledan> yeah*
<daftykins> O_O
<diplo> daftykins, fresh install sounds best :)
<zmoylan-pi> outlook express on winxp will fix it :-)
<diddledan> diplo: daftykins: or wipe and linuxify?
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: you bar steward!
<daftykins> no chance would i put a Linux on :D
<diplo> heh even more support :)
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: that's even worse than windows live mail
<daftykins> i think this mate enjoys his gambly poker games
<diddledan> I saw someone request help with windows live writer - I didn't know that was still a thing
<foobarry> is google keep a real thing
<daftykins> my cat is having a groaning match with neighbour cat through the window
<daftykins> it got violent a moment ago
<diddledan> (the ms blog frontend tool)
<foobarry> i want an evrnote type thing that makes it easy to actually get your data out again
<diplo> foobarry, yup... I like it and use it
<diplo> Shopping list at work
<diplo> Check on phone whilst in shop
<zmoylan-pi> i use a text file on dropbox with #hashtags to keep notes
<diddledan> I don't keep notes - because they just remind me of all the crud I can't be bothered to do
<daftykins> =]
<diddledan> speaking of which, I guess I should do some real work-related pointing-n-clicking
<foobarry> diplo: i worry that they would can it again
<foobarry> they can a lot of products
<diplo> I guess, I'd find something else instead after I suppose
<foobarry> can you get the data out cleanly
<foobarry> the evernote web clipper is really nice
<diplo> I enjoy the use of smartphones, but I don't live my life by them so things like that don't bother me so much
<zmoylan-pi> i miss memopad on palmos
<diplo> Never tried if I'm honest
<diplo> I'll take a look
<diddledan> drupal really makes a programmer feel useless with the way everything is done via point-n-click
<shauno> I can't rely on my phone for stuff like this because I get no reception in the bathroom, which seems to be where I do most my pondering
<foobarry> evernote does offline
<foobarry> i have a like/hate relationship with evernote
<zmoylan-pi> don't you have to pay for offline?
<diddledan> shauno: you need to sync before you go?
<foobarry> my work paid for it for 1 yr
<shauno> evernote I could never get the hang of.  I even wound up with a paid sub for a while, but could just never make a workflow out of it.  it just felt too forced
<foobarry> yeah, has a lot of reasons to hate it
<diplo> Doesn't look like it foobarry
<foobarry> oh , bad
<diplo> shauno, keep is offline as well
<foobarry> tomboy was the best :(
<foobarry> still haven't migrated all my notes off
<diddledan> ubuntu one with tomboy
<foobarry> awesometastic
<foobarry> and on my phone too
<shauno> this is why I dig dropbox .. it living on the filesystem makes it easy to glue it to other stuff.  I have things go in and out of it quite automatically on various machines
<foobarry> i want the other features, like the web clipper
<foobarry> where you only choose a portion of a web page and then annotate it
<foobarry> so i'm choosing a new freezer
<diddledan> I wouldn't have minded the shut-off of u1 if there was a drop-in replacement that was supported by everything that originally had a u1 backend
<shauno> right, that's the love/hate with evernote.  the clipper's neat, but then it shoves it in a box that's very difficult to handle
<foobarry> i can snipped pages and point at bits and collate it all
<shauno> evernote+dropbox in unholy matrimony would be neat.  dropbox is great and getting stuff in & out, gluing it to other systems, etc.  and let evernote worry about doing clever stuff with the contents
<diplo> foobarry, looks like someone has wrote some javascript to download stuff but thats it
<diplo> :/
<diplo> I use Syncthing now shauno
<foobarry> i also do things like write notes from a meeting/sermon on paper and then take a photo and pop in evernote, then throw paper away
<popey> \o/ syncthing
<diplo> hah you have it on highlight popey ?
<foobarry> for those times when writing on a laptop is not convenient
<popey> no
<popey> \o/ evernote too
<diplo> I was waiting for you to jump in :D
<popey> we have an evernote app on ubuntu phone just for you foobarry :)
<diplo> I've never used Evernote
<popey> i use it all the time now
<daftykins> diplo: nor me
<daftykins> i don't even know what it's about 0o
<popey> notes, synced to the cloud
<davmor2> popey: I think you mis-spelt reminders as evernote then dude easy mistake ;)
<popey> like google keep
<popey> s/reminders/notes/
<diplo> First thing I heard about it was for scanning receipts or something near the beginning ?
<foobarry> ubuntu phone came too late :(
<foobarry> now i have to wait 5 yrs until this phone dies
<popey> neva!
<foobarry> too late for my purchase
<popey> give it to charity
<popey> and save yourself from google
<foobarry> because my htc died after 5yrs and i had to buy then
<popey> ok foobarry and his weird purchasing rules :)
<foobarry> my mrs and i have his and hers moto g
<foobarry> we used to both have htc
<daftykins> will touch do funny amazon related things? :)
<popey> no
<popey> just like desktop doesnt
<daftykins> ah been a while now is it?
<daftykins> i don't use desktop so don't tend to notice much, quick live session here and there
<foobarry> i want to hide the "all notes" view
<daftykins> mostly prefer to stay CLI
<foobarry> in the web interface, can't seem to
<foobarry> i also have evernote desktop app running under wine
<foobarry> sucks that they hate linux
<popey> you could run the ubuntu touch app on the desktop :)
<popey> they dont hate linux _that_ much :)
<popey> I will make a debian package for you if you want
<popey> it needs more desktop testing tbh
<foobarry> have you tried that?
<popey> yes
<foobarry> i would be happy to test it
<popey> super
<foobarry> thx
 * popey adds to to-do list
<davmor2> popey: you should just be able to install the click surely?
<foobarry> on evernote
<popey> what distro / release you running?
<popey> davmor2: not on desktop, I wouldn't
<foobarry> elementary freya approx equal to 14.04 LTS
<popey> ok
<popey> will see if i can build for that
<foobarry> chrs
<foobarry> popey: are you concerned about backups?
<foobarry> getting your notes out?
<popey> how do you mean?
<popey> my notes are backed up on my phone :)
<popey> which is then backed up to my server
<popey> so no, not bothered :)
<foobarry> your evernotes?
<foobarry> i've experienced some bad note destroying bugs in evernote
<foobarry> sync doesn't seem intelligent
<popey> not seen that
<foobarry> i don't offline sync all my notes
<popey> had that in tomboy!
<foobarry> heh
<popey> all my notes sync to a sqlite db on my phone
<popey> at least I think it's sqlite
<foobarry> lets just say conflict resolution is agressive
<foobarry> and 2 people can edit a note without knowing
<foobarry> and there's no process to choose
<foobarry> whose edits win
<foobarry> it doesn't seem to lock the note
<popey> uhoh...
<popey> $ uptime
<popey> bash: /usr/bin/uptime: Input/output error
<popey> that looks bad
<Azelphur> there goes that drive.
<foobarry> quick! in the freezer!
<popey> heh
<popey> its a usb stick
<diddledan> daftykins: drive failure alert!
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> i had that for fd0 in a VM yesterday, i lol'd
<diddledan> I swear you are a bad omen
<Azelphur> I think I found an external USB battery that somehow defies the laws of physics, which sounds quite nice
<foobarry> my mp3 player does that
<foobarry> never knowingly undercharged
<diddledan> whenever daftykins is around, hide your women^Zdrives
<Azelphur> It's only ~1cmÂ² bigger than my existing 12,000mAh battery, but it's 25600mAh :o
<daftykins> diddledan: noooo, i'm just the disk sniffer
<diddledan> daftykins: well don't sniff mine
<daftykins> i'm really chuffed with spotting one the other day purely from "this system seems a bit slow"
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> smartctl - BAM bad sectors \o/
<diddledan> I'm not sure killing a disk is worthy of celebration
<diddledan> it was fine until you came along. just a bit slow.
<daftykins> but i... :(
<diddledan> as soon as you get your grubby mits on it then it has bad sectors
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> speaking of slow, that old 12TB array is copying at 25MB/sec to the new one =|
<diddledan> eep
<daftykins> my maths puts that at 5 days to rsync XD
<diddledan> not over the network?
<daftykins> same controller card, so unit to unit
<diddledan> aah
<daftykins> RAID6 to RAID6
<diddledan> that may be why it's a bit slower
<diddledan> if it was between cards then I'd moan
<daftykins> i wonder if i've somehow introduced a massive fail on the file system front that's causing it to really underperform
<daftykins> XFS' docs aren't the best described
<diddledan> to be fair, filesystems aren't well described across the board
<diddledan> tuning them seems a black art
<daftykins> well i was reading my notes that i made last time, you specify values for the RAID stripe size and the stripe width - but it seems last time i just said i had 8 disks, whereas a page online said state how many *data* disks you have
<daftykins> so, ugh
<daftykins> i'm tempted to go up there, wipe it with ext4 and compare performance
<daftykins> speed isn't even important, but it'd be nice if the copy finished this year :D
<diplo> It's just taken me 3~ months to copy 4tb~ of data off my microserver from disk to disk :)
<foobarry> were they in seprate llocations?
<diplo> Nope, same machine :D
<diplo> Raid 0 - 1 of the disks was failing and it took that long to copy... I'm amazed it still did, should see my logs... filled with hdd errors :)
<diplo> All copied now apart from 4 files
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> ouch at RAID0, what was that used for?
<diplo> A quick fix for space until I bought some more disks 4+ years ago
<diplo> A month later my wife left me and never got around to it/had any money :D
<daftykins> that's a sad tale :(
<diplo> Still not got a lot of moolah, but bought a 4tb disk for now and waiting a month or two and buy two more and do a btfrs setup I think
<diplo> I'm also terrible at buying my self ANYTHING
<diplo> Spend all my money on the kids
<directhex> spend some on me!
<awilkins> Just get 1 more 4TB disk
<awilkins> I got an ASUS NAS box that's very nice
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: I hope it's not running Linux
<awilkins> Although I think the cheaper one I looked at does btrfs out of th ebox
<awilkins> TwistedLucidity, Why?
<diddledan> hmm, gpodder on mac has a serious memory leak - was marked as using 16GB
<diddledan> I have 8 total
<awilkins> TwistedLucidity, Is ASUS's version of Linux awful?
<diddledan> so lots of swappage
<directhex> asus use a vaguely modern kernel, which is a revelation in embedded
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: Because Linux is terrible. I read it on the Internet. Got to be true.
<TwistedLucidity> http://backupchain.com/i/why-you-shouldnt-buy-a-nas-like-drobo-synology-buffalo-netgear-qnap
<TwistedLucidity> A rather hysterical read....
 * awilkins does a doubletake (but only because this is a *family* channel)
 * diddledan goes to read it
<awilkins> "Their FTP servers are partially incompatible with standard FTP protocols.."  in that... they support extended features like remote file hashing, presumably?
<directhex> directhex@RT-AC68U:/tmp/home/root# uname -a
<directhex> Linux RT-AC68U 2.6.36.4brcmarm #1 SMP PREEMPT Tue Nov 11 20:34:57 CST 2014 armv7l GNU/Linux
<directhex> 2.6! so modern!
<awilkins> "NAS boxes become inaccessible via their DNS or network name" ?!?!?!?!? how is that a problem with the NAS??
<awilkins> Surely that's a problem with whatever broke-ass name server they're using?
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: I did say it was a hysterical read
<diddledan> awilkins: well it'll be the windows dns server
<awilkins> NAS : Linux vault 3.12.20 #1 SMP Wed Feb 25 14:23:21 CST 2015 x86_64 GNU/Linux
<awilkins> Yeah, that's real old
<daftykins> directhex: is that stock or alternate firmware? :)
 * awilkins is using stock firmware
<TwistedLucidity> But it's proprietary!
 * TwistedLucidity runs around with pants on fire
<directhex> daftykins: router fw
<daftykins> ah-har
<awilkins> You could just have tremendous fun going through this post and debunking everything it says
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: Also note the very professional stock Wordpress icon for the page
<awilkins> TwistedLucidity, I get their BackupChain one for the favicon
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: Huh - I just see Wordpress
<awilkins> "Extensibility: you could run regular Windows applications on your NAS server; and scripts, and whatever else you may need,"
 * awilkins facepalms
<diplo> Power cut :/
<awilkins> My NAS OS has a freakin' app store
<diplo> Really want a UPS for work
<directhex> lemonjohn> uname -a
<directhex> Linux lemonjohn 2.6.32.12 #5022 Wed Jan 7 14:19:44 CST 2015 armv5tel GNU/Linux synology_88f6281_112j
<foobarry> we had a power cut that necessittated a generator
<foobarry> which is still here
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: My "NAS" has apt-get :-)
<awilkins> I suppose that's an option...
<foobarry> this chan is microserversRus
<awilkins> I mean, this box is basically a laptop motherboard with a nice disk rack bolted onto it
<diplo> Twas why I went for a microserver over a prebuilt NAS
<TwistedLucidity> HP Microservers 4 eva! Shame they're a dead product....
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: I know a place with an on-site, gas genny to keep freezers etc running. Gas supply passes through various saftey board...which are main powered.
<awilkins> https://www.google.co.uk/shopping/product/6546580671678501731?q=microserver&client=ubuntu&hs=ZJR&channel=fs&biw=1447&bih=824&bav=on.2,or.&bvm=bv.87920726,d.ZGU&tch=1&ech=1&psi=iqsBVaXzJsiG7QbHwYHQCQ.1426172811751.3&prds=paur:ClkAsKraX005emsnGim_4XEmskLvS592sUjbCUa2BQsD4VqcwOaBbbVowanHVB7Ytrt724IIJhS2YfISxXx95uhphQso_s2ZvFLXVE1dL_AH1txsS6wvbn8lOBIZAFPVH701FR_zgPVOy5YSv-dQSVR25oJR3A&ei=jqsBVf7CE8LC7gb9yIF4&ved=0CGoQqSswAA
<awilkins> Ugh, google
<awilkins> Shiny though
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: So when there's a power cut, the circuits fail to safe (no gas) and thus the genny can't start. Clever, eh?
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: Â£180? For that? Get out.
<awilkins> Free shipping too, allegedly
<TwistedLucidity> My 8GB job with 2TBx2 (RAID 1) was about that all-in.
<awilkins> Cashback also
<foobarry> we have 3 phases
<foobarry> 1 phase is on a 50yr old cable which has crumbled
<diplo> Yeah, I was going to get one for work, anyone tried the new one ?
<popey> i refuse to buy microservers now
<popey> due to HP policy on firmware updates requiring a paid subscription
<diplo> Oh I didn't know that
<diplo> Not a great policy, may have a look around before ordering one then
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: Â£40 cashback? Pfft...the deals on the old microserver were w-a-y better
<TwistedLucidity> popey: Say what?
<awilkins> Ew
<awilkins> HP *spit*spit*
<popey> once your warranty runs out, you pay for updates
<popey> try getting the bios update for an N40L for example
<awilkins> That's almost as evil as Solaris
<TwistedLucidity> Hmm...that might be fair, depending on price
<awilkins> I think I may have been aware of that
<foobarry> eeebil
<foobarry> i have an n54l
<foobarry> in warrany
<foobarry> but how would they know?
<awilkins> Presume you get a special support account
<awilkins> Which KNOWS
<diddledan> I think I need to reboob
<popey> you put the serial number in
<popey> i had to for my n40L
<popey> you can't even download updates, you have to sign up and pay for maintenance
<foobarry> does yum have a dry-run option?
<diddledan> popey: :-o I was thinking about getting one, too
<Myrtti> NEWSFLASH: Terry Pratchett has passed away.
<foobarry> some helpful internet person will post a clean or tainted bios package
<popey> oh dear :(
<diddledan> Myrtti: :-o
<diddledan> nooooooo
<foobarry> not sure how different this is from not even producing bios updates
<awilkins> diddledan, Going to reboob later
<foobarry> :-|
<diddledan> for folk googling and not finding news of TP: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-31858156
<diddledan> seems it's only just broken
<diplo> I really need to reinstall this machine, I was going to wait till 15.04 release
<diplo> Safe enough to install it now ?
<diddledan> diplo: BETA!
<awilkins> Depends what system is for
<diplo> Work station, use it for hosting my local dev work
<awilkins> Still running 14.04 on my main desktop (mainly inertia - 14.10 not that much different or shinier, can't be bothered to bleach and retweak desktop until our new security honcho insists that I need full-disk encryption)
<diplo> apache/php etc
<awilkins> (at which point I'll probably get an SSD and bcache things because *dayum* does it make my laptop fast)
<diplo> I'm normally a LTS guy for work machine
<awilkins> Apache / pgp
<awilkins> php
<awilkins> Go for LTS
<awilkins> BEcause it's what you'll end up running it on in production
<diplo> yeah 15.04 is a LTS isn't it
<awilkins> Is it?
<diplo> hah, yeah our host runs CentOS 5.* something
<awilkins> One year after 14.04?
<diplo> Already have issues with 14.04 being newer than their packages :/
<awilkins> CentOS?   *spew*
<awilkins> 16.04 is the next LTS
<diplo> Our work uses CentOS for everything too
<diddledan> the next LTS is 16.04
<davmor2> diplo: 14.04.2 is the current lts 15.04 is short term next lts is 16.04
<diplo> Ah right, hmmm what to do :)
<awilkins> Install the newest, plus VirtualBox for a CentOS VM
<awilkins> The main annoyance of 14.10 for me has been the MySQL Workbench packages that Oracle release being broken and having to build it from source
<awilkins> But they fixed that now
<diplo> Anyone running the 15.04 atm ?
<popey> yes
<popey> on my main laptop
<diplo> Only another month till release, but this machine really needs installing now
<awilkins> Have the nighlies transitioned to systemd yet?
<diplo> Any major issues you've come across ?
<popey> other than the fact we switched to systemd on monday?
<popey> no
<diplo> Bah I'll go for it then :)
<awilkins> Does systemd produce the promised shower of rainbows made from fine sprays of unicorn wee wee when it boots?
<popey> No.
<popey> but then I've only booted once since I updated
<awilkins> (The major feature missed from Utopic (that's why it had a unicorn as it's mascot))
<popey> well, twice if you include the one where it had just installed
<bashrc_> did the transition to systemd cause the sky to fall down?
<davmor2> Terry Pratchet is dead man this year sucks :(
<popey> no
<davmor2> popey: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-31858156
<popey> (the no was at bashrc_)
<bashrc_> I never actually read any Pratchet, but I know plenty of folks who did
<awilkins> Have been reading him since The Colour of Magic
<awilkins> He matured tremendously as an author as his career progressed
<awilkins> His books started off fun
<awilkins> As they went on the became incredibly insightful of the human condition, touching, and remained funny
<awilkins> The last ones were equally touching, but because you could see the decay setting in, destroying this mind that you grew to love even though you only touched it's imprint on paper
<daftykins> i was reading the Discworld series back to back for a bit, the odd few pieces repeated were sometimes jarring
<daftykins> "he drew himself up to his full height, which was hardly worth it" was used a few times in the first 5 or so
<daftykins> but yeah, great books :D
<awilkins> Yeah, there were some nasty continuity errors between the first two
<daftykins> ugh browser hijackings on Windows :P
<foobarry> not sure why books never seem to be edited
<daftykins> seen chrome get pinned to an old version and updates disabled quite a lot now
<foobarry> the dragon tattoo books were a fine example of a book that never saw an editor or proof reader
<foobarry> should have been about half the length
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> i enjoyed that trilogy :) murdered them in quite short succession
<foobarry> yeah but they were poor though
<foobarry> i still rad them
<foobarry> ..plugged in her macbook, 800mhz processor, 128MB RAM, it was the fastest thing money could buy
<foobarry> the real text was even worse
<daftykins> the explanation of how her pal's backdoor access installed itself was horrifying
<daftykins> claiming it slowly slipped in appended to images then assembled itself like some kind of T1000 from Terminator at the other end
<foobarry> "PowerPC 7451 processor with an AltiVec Velocity Engine, 960 MB RAM and a 60 GB hard drive plus Bluetooth and a DVD burner."
<foobarry> this kind of stuff gets out of date the moment it's penned. don't do it!
<daftykins> aww yes, cold black coffee
<diddledan> hmm, everyone stopped talking while I reboobed?
<daftykins> yep
<diddledan> I disappeared at 17:00 and came back shorty and nobody has spoken since
<daftykins> mmm chinese takeaway tonight i think
<popey> good call
<popey> we had curry last night
<popey> got the guilt trip from the owner
<popey> "You never come in here with your wife"
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> ooh i wonder when i last had a curry, probably too recently
<diddledan> lurve curry
<daftykins> i'm less fond of the gut i've developed than the curry i think :(
<popey> "Barbecued chicken with minced lamb, boiled egg & tomato cooked in medium spice."
<popey> mmmmmm
<popey> my fave
<daftykins> weird, that guy i put data on a 1TB drive formatted as exFAT for says it doesn't work on their macs
<daftykins> seems to be a default cluster size incompatibility, damn
<davmor2> had curry just popey hmmmm curry :)
<Myrtti> blogging is overrated
<zmoylan-pi> do a write up on your blog...
<Myrtti> I just hooked up a keyboard to my Nexus 9 and installed the Wordpress app to start doing the promised write up of my bouquet on my blog
<zmoylan-pi> i rustled a symbian phone with a qwerty keyboard out of my collection and installed ftp, ssh to work on emails i have backlogged over wifi
<Myrtti> noticed that the latest unpublished draft was from summer 2013 about "a Kickstarter looking for funding to make a documentary about gaming misogynia and how I've lost my will to live in IT communities"
<Myrtti> (roughly)
<Myrtti> I'm not sure it's wise even still to publish it
<zmoylan-pi> it'll just tile up gamergate :-/
<Myrtti> so I just started drafting the blog entry about the bouquet.
<Myrtti> snoring is distracting me from it but I did manage to jot some things anyway
<mapp> hi all
<zmoylan-pi> oooook
<Myrtti> (not my snoring) :-D
<m0nkey_> Myrtti, go prod him to keep him quiet. You can say Dave told you to do so.
<Myrtti> oh he's well beyond the point that a nudge would help
<Myrtti> tbh so should I
 * zmoylan-pi hands Myrtti nerf pistol to bounce a dart of her snorer
<Myrtti> good night everyone
<zmoylan-pi> sleep well
<diddledan> *yawn*
#ubuntu-uk 2015-03-13
<mapp> what to watch
<mapp> eye candy ..sirens or that statham film wild card
<mapp> hm
<mapp> eye candy sounds iffy..and i expect a statham film will be same old same old?
<mapp> hmmm
<mapp> noone around again
<diddledan> I'm here
<diddledan> statham is always fun when you don't want to concentrate
<mapp> hey
<mapp> yea
<mapp> diddledan
<mapp> sometimes films where you dont need to concentrate are good;p fall asleep..miss 30mins..doesnt matter
<diddledan> ello
<ali1234> er... what is steam broadcasting?
<diddledan> no idea
<ali1234> on my steam profile there's a button that says "watch game"
<mapp> the tennis?
<mapp> :d
<MooDoo> morning all
<knightwise> morning everyone
<DJones> Sheesh, these Fedora chaps have no patience, say "morning" and quit :)
<DJones> Morning
<popey> heh
<davmor2> Morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday the 13th, and happy Digital Learning Day! :-D
<davmor2> JamesTait: I moved crystal lake next door to you so lock up the doors really tight :D
<knightwise> Mornin peeps
<knightwise> Im starting to doubt myself. Have a mega expensive macbook. All I love to do all day is use it as a glorified thin client to connect to the apps on my 30 euro Raspberry pi.
<foobarry> hehe
<knightwise> I love my OSX environment but mostly I just run a Chromixium VM fullscreen so I have access to all the command line apps i like
<foobarry> http://www.androidpolice.com/2015/03/12/google-code-will-shut-down-in-january-2016-because-almost-no-one-uses-it-anymore/
<foobarry> this is why i don't want to use google keep, and plenty of other google services that die after a short unhappy life
<diplo> I honestly think it's a good idea foobarry, actually agree with Google
<diplo> Nearly everything I see on Google Code is dead
<diplo> Github et all are a much better platform
<foobarry> why is it dead
<foobarry> because google never fed their pet?
<Myrtti> IIRC all Google Services that were inhouse developed (opposed by acquihire projects like Jaiku etc) that have been shut down have all had a method of exporting the data or transferring them elsewhere
<diplo> Because people are moving to github
<Myrtti> because git > svn
<diplo> Defo
<foobarry> we can a github enterprise inhouse, its a pain
<foobarry> and not very open source friendly product
<foobarry> although it hosts OSS code
<foobarry> :S
<diplo> They could have changed it all over probably, but why bother when there are other prods out there doing a better job
<foobarry> they could have made a better prodcut
<diplo> But why bother when there are better products on the market that are fre
<diplo> https://www.gitorious.org/
<diplo> Can run your own
<diplo> Can use Github itself or bitbucket et all
<diplo> I never liked google code site, I did like the search feature for searching up code though, not sure if that is available
<popey> also, launchpad ã
<diplo> heh, didn't get on so well with launchpad, but that was more me than it being bad :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan> allo
<diddledan> I think I want to buy a few big discs
<foobarry> just be careful when you type that in to google
<diddledan> lol, I almost mistyped when writing it in here
<diddledan> because I usually refer to them as the other word when speaking aloud
<foobarry> disks?
<foobarry> big hard disks?
<diddledan> replace the first s with a c
<foobarry> you have a dirty mind sir, i was thinking of something competely different
<zmoylan-pi> and don't be rash with ssds either
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, nah this is for a raidy-array
<zmoylan-pi> tape it is... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> 10 tape drives whirring away, whirring, stuttering, whining, driving you bonkers.  and thats before the blinky lights and beeping and booping :-)
<diddledan> blinky lights are awesomesauce!
<zmoylan-pi> those microbits with their 5x5 led grid could be very cool
<diddledan> das ist nicht fur gefinger-poken mit de spits-n-sparken
<zmoylan-pi> thinking of blinky lights as airplane is 35 years old now.
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> love that movie
<zmoylan-pi> and don't call me shirley
<diddledan> that's an entirely different matter, all together
<zmoylan-pi> looked i picked the wrong day to quit smoking
<foobarry> is it true about the macbook with no usb ports?
<directhex> it has one usb type C port
<directhex> which is used for power, as well as accessories
<directhex> if you want power *and* accessories at the same time, a) OMG SO GREEDY 2) you need an adapter to provide more ports. apple has an $80 dongle which is USBC->USBC,HDMI,USBA
<brobostigon> anyone by chance used opensimilator?
<zmoylan-pi> at least this time most people have moved on before they shut it down unlike reader
<directhex> brobostigon: not for a long time
<zmoylan-pi> whoops wrong channel
<brobostigon> directhex: did you ever look at the irc bridge module?
<directhex> no
<brobostigon> ok,
<knightwise> directhex: I agree on the new macbook. The specs are too low, the ports are too few and who ever put in a 480P webcam hasn't been outside for a couple of years.
<directhex> knightwise: the new macbook serves a niche. you may not be in that niche
<directhex> i certainly wouldn't buy one
<zmoylan-pi> when even the new chrome pixel looks better than the new macbook... :-)
<directhex> that's also niche, and appeals to me no more than the macbook
<zmoylan-pi> but it has _2_ ports i think :-)
<zmoylan-pi> and cheaper
<knightwise> I have a macbook (pro). Its a 15 inch powerhouse with a decent processor ,ram and storage. Its a workhorse. The new 12 inch macbook is an overpriced underperforming excuse for a netbook.
<directhex> zmoylan-pi: it also has barely any local storage, making it junk
<knightwise> im not saying i need an RS332 port to be happy but 1 port is ludicrous.
<zmoylan-pi> but we all live in the cloud now directhex :-)
<directhex> not on a mac we don't, the crummy broadcom wifi barely works in linux
<zmoylan-pi> that's your punishment for deviating from the true mac os
<directhex> macos is a garbage toy
<directhex> in my professional opinion, anyway
<zmoylan-pi> no arguments here. i liked it when i abandoned windows but it became too constraining so moved on to linux.  seems to be the path of quite a few folk i know
<directhex> i use a usb ethernet card for my work macbook, due to broadcom sucking
<foobarry> so that pic of the mac pCB is true?
<foobarry> tiny pi sized board on the bcp
<foobarry> mbp
<zmoylan-pi> but not the same price :-)
<directhex> foobarry: yes. largely due to ports though
<directhex> and the intel soc is 14nm process, rpi is a whopping 40nm
<directhex> so transistor density is hugely different
<foobarry> MBair haven't gone ARM yet?
<directhex> not this time around.
<directhex> intel can compete with ARM, and also be intel compatible, so maybe they never will
<popey> more likely to go the other way - intel ipad
<foobarry> :-|
<popey> although it works fine for android having both architectures
<ujjain> if I want to buy stocks, I should fund a stock isa, right?
<diddledan> who here happens to be a financial advisor, perchance?
<zmoylan-pi> hand me your wallet, i'm the wallet inspector
<popey> i handed my wallet to someone on my stag do
<popey> ended up with some pain a few weeks later when (new) wifey found a card in there apparently written by "Kim" who had a "Lovely time"
<popey> (my mate Steve wrote it)
<Azelphur> I'm loving flashblock + youtubes separate audio/video streaming setup...flashblock has blocked the video but the audio is still playing, so I can listen to music without wasting loads of resources :D
<Azelphur> aww yis, just got a letter randomly from the council telling me they've moved my property from council tax band D to C :D
<NET||abuse> hi folks.
<NET||abuse> i've installed mate along side unity, most things in unity are unaffected, accept, my notifications are suddenly in mate style,,
<NET||abuse> an gtk style pop up
<NET||abuse> looks pretty bad.
<daftykins> afty all
<directhex> I HUNGER
<directhex> FEED ME, DAFTY
<daftykins> uuuh, sorry my cupboards are bare and it's raining :(
<davmor2> daftykins: feed him the cupboards
<daftykins> let him eat cupboard!
<diddledan> FEED ME TOOH!
<diddledan> I HUNGY
<diddledan> ME EEET
<diddledan> seriously, this network appears to be completely dead today - since I last looked at IRC there's been 6 lines in here and zero in ALL the channels I'm in besides
<diddledan> lots of joining and farting though
<diddledan> s/f/p
<ali1234> lovely
<diddledan> the fart was because I was talking about brainfarts in company's slack chat
<daftykins> i was out in the real world today
<daftykins> got heavily rained on, on the ride home too :D
<shauno> the real world was sunny here!  not warm, just sunny
<daftykins> wowzer
<shauno> off work until the 21st now.  not actually sure what to do with all the time
<daftykins> finish your hifi pi!
<shauno> don't be silly.  I don't finish anything I start :)
<daftykins> :D
<shauno> was actually just looking at that oled display I got.  it arrived today, and ... well it was bigger in my head  (sh'up dan)
<daftykins> ;]
<daftykins> heh, this mates Windows laptop i had to decrapify was missing a screw beside a hinge, so it was being pried apart when flipped open
<daftykins> none of my spare screws fit, so i just took one from where it was far less needed :P
<shauno> (other than that, said project is currently making loud noises :)
<daftykins> ooh very good
<shauno> hah, took a guess at how to resize the filesystem and it seems to have worked.  phew!
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> i don't fancy attacking one of my desktops to clone a laptop HDD to an SSD, so i'm trying clonezilla's disk to image right now
<shauno> that's something I've never toyed with
<daftykins> aside from clonezilla freaking out that it detected GPT remnants on the MBR installed disk, it's gone swimmingly from internal disk to a USB3 external i have
<daftykins> now doing the drive transplant and then i shall restore to this SSD
<daftykins> very easy :)
<zmoylan-pi> fingers crossed
<daftykins> excellent, SSD transplanted and now backing that one up to my external first
<daftykins> so that's yet another 500GB mechanical laptop HDD i've got knocking around here doing nothing ^_^
<daftykins> oh dear ISP of mine, not back to giving me a faulty line card are we? tut tut
<shauno> you say that like it's a good thing?
<daftykins> the HDD thing?
<shauno> yeah
<daftykins> yeah 'tis quite wasteful really
<shauno> I've started transplanting old ssd's into external caddies.  now that feels like a waste
<zmoylan-pi> all those non spinning disks not helping stabilise the earth as gyroscopes...
<daftykins> right, got my usual 3 infinite pings running again
<daftykins> lets see if it was just a freak coincidence or whether my connection really is wonky again ;)
<zmoylan-pi> the ping of let's see :-)
<daftykins> one from a PC to the router, one to the first hop on the ISP side and one to Google UK
<daftykins> i had this before where a wonky linecard was periodically dropping all packets for a couple of seconds
<daftykins> took a few calls to get them to do something about that one ;)
<zmoylan-pi> intermittent problems are the most... fun
<shauno> hm, that reminds me of the time I was terribly rude to my isp's tech support.  I ended up just sitting and reading each ping time until they found me someone else to talk to
<daftykins> lmao
<shauno> "12 .. 20 ........ 3000."
<zmoylan-pi> the speaking ping....
<shauno> hm, I think there's fable somewhere of someone piping ping into festival and then walking around wiggling cables while it chattered to itself
<zmoylan-pi> we had a bugs bunny line that we had them come out over a dozen times and it was still unrepaired.  if you rang the number it wouldn't ring, if you rang out on it then incoming calls would come in for a day or so.  not good for a fax line
<daftykins> wow, my wired connection between PC and router is occasionally spiking to 5, 7 or 11ms instead of <1
<zmoylan-pi> sounds like a network card or cable, maybe
<daftykins> i am saturating my upload at the moment, i wonder if my ISP supplied router is too pants to handle that ;D
<zmoylan-pi> try pinging another device on your network at same time
<daftykins> that's a good idea
<zmoylan-pi> occasionly i do have good ones :-)
<zmoylan-pi> very occasionly i have a doozy :-D
<daftykins> oh i wouldn't dream of doubting you, sir!
<daftykins> ooh yes, shows up going from file server to my desktop too
<daftykins> intel PCI-E 1x NIC
<daftykins> ah well, not like it's the end of the world
<zmoylan-pi> unless you're playing games over lan :-)
<daftykins> not me!
<daftykins> cor, i've been asked to look at plotters
<daftykins> http://www.ebuyer.com/406412-hp-designjet-t120-24-eprinter-cq891a-b19
<daftykins> Â£708 O_O
<zmoylan-pi> you'd be better off getting someone off dole cheap on government scheme and a sharpie marker :-)
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> lego mindstorms kit!
<zmoylan-pi> or infinite monkies and a sharpie... but who has the space :-)
<zmoylan-pi> a radio controlled car guided by pc...
<zmoylan-pi> think of the fun you can have during work hours 'configuring' it
<daftykins> XD
<zmoylan-pi> and the second car is for calibration...
<daftykins> ooh i am bad, tempted by takeaway yet again
<diddledan> daftykins, what you uploading that's saturising your link?
<daftykins> this and that (:
<shauno> I'm so confused.  I can't install libsdl2 because it's trying to overwrite a file that also exists in libsdl2
<diddledan> shauno, maybe someone packaged something else wonkily?
<daftykins> same package twice?
<shauno> I'm honestly not sure.  it's a cluser .. potato
<shauno> *cluster
<diddledan> cluster potato?
<diddledan> I know you're trying to be irish, but .. clustered spud?
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=gXge6td1jfM
<shauno> ah, okay.  something is trying to use libsdl2, and something else is trying to use libsdl2-2.0-0
<shauno> one provides 2.0.2, and one provides 2.0.3
<diddledan> err
<shauno> so I'll go make coffee while it tries apt-get update, see if maybe I just caught the mirror with its pants down
<diddledan> do mirrors wear pants?
<daftykins> best not to ask such things
<shauno> there are some things you're simply better off not knowing
<diddledan> I suppose the question should be raised at some point: do you do your danglies up?
<shauno> I may require your mother's email address.
<diddledan> she doesn't have email
<diddledan> well she does. she just doesn't know how to work it
<diddledan> she probably isn't even aware it exists
<shauno> hm.  how else am I going to tell on you?
<shauno> okay, I have no idea what I've done, but both soundcards appear in alsa now
<shauno> well, I know what I've been doing, but I know I couldn't repeat it again  lol
<diddledan> shauno, what you working on?
<shauno> trying to install retropie on debian.  without breaking all the mess that volumio have made
<shauno> (well, I have to mess some of it up later, because they seem to have broken wifi & ipv6)
<shauno> this seems to be the downside of these pre-canned images.  they take it as license to do everything the most clumsy way they can
<shauno> so trying to munge together two of them involves a lot of running around and asking people to please keep off the grass
<diddledan> why are they shipping different versions of libraries? are they not on the same base raspbian?
<shauno> if I knew the answer to that, I'd probably be half way there :)
<shauno> still not happy about sdl.  bah
<shauno> just brought up my working copy on another pi - seems retropie is using wheezy and volumio is using jessie
<shauno> but they are both raspbian at least
<diddledan> which one is newer?
<diddledan> wheezy?
<shauno> jessie is 8.x and wheezy is 7.x .. I think
<diddledan> it was simpler when there was "stable" whatever it happened to be and "lenny" was the "in the distance" release
<diddledan> I always assumed lenny was a pseudo-static release name for the dev version no matter what releases had happened
<shauno> lol, nope
<shauno> sid's the static one
<shauno> lenny is oldstable, wheezy is stable, jessie is testing, sid is unstable
<diddledan> so volumio shouldn't have based on jessie then - seeing as that version is testing :-p
<shauno> most likely :)
<shauno> I'm getting really tempted to just start with raspbian and try to build them both up from scratch.  rather than trying to install on onto the other's canned image
<diddledan> of course the naive side of me says "just apt-get source and build it yourself"
<diddledan> heh, jinx
<shauno> I believe volumio has a bunch of latency-obsessed kernel patches
<shauno> other than that, it's just mpd and some messed up webapp
<daftykins> hrmm ok, slight roadblock there. my image is from a 500GB disk with a 100MB partition and a 100GB partition... but clonezilla won't restore it to a 180GB SSD
<diddledan> daftykins, eh?
<diddledan> daftykins, that doesn't make sense
<diddledan> daftykins, do it with gparted
<daftykins> bit weird isn't it
<diddledan> or dd
<daftykins> hmm might work
<intrbiz> daftykins: what filesystem?
<shauno> hah, I've just noticed what's breaking.  the installer script for retropie is downloading specific versions of packages
<diddledan> recreate the partition table on the new disk (maybe give a bit of space in-hand for each partition for expansion) and then dd the partitions across followed by a resizefs
<shauno> I kinda assumed they weren't linux partitions ;)
<daftykins> intrbiz: it's a win7 install, so NTFS
<diddledan> ntfsresize then
<diddledan> or is it resizentfs?
<diddledan> one or the other
<daftykins> no no, 100MB + 100GB fits into 180GB fine :D but for some reason clonezilla goes "these came from a 500GB! i can't do this!"
<daftykins> turns out clonezilla's "img" is actually a folder with a tonne of separate files too, not just a single file to dd
<intrbiz> daftykins: when you say a 100GB partition, do you actually mean there is 400GB unpartitioned space on the disk?
<daftykins> yes
<shauno> daftykins: the latter is probably a good thing.  hoisting around whole 100GB files really limits what filesystems you can use
<daftykins> i did that intentionally so it could fit
<diddledan> daftykins, no, I mean with the resize fs step to ensure that a rounding error doesn't cause your filesystem to spew off the end of the partition into mid-air
<intrbiz> daftykins: ah ok, then I'd just DD each partition to the new disk
<daftykins> yeah clonezilla seems to have stored the source partitions in split files >_<
<shauno> back in my day we'd just pipe tar into tar :(
<daftykins> in fact that's because it's imaged the data only
<daftykins> if i partition manually on the disk i might be able to tell clonezilla to do each partition to partition :>
<diddledan> shauno, tar Jc /dir | tar Jx /target?
<diddledan> (I chose J on purpose to see who would spot the evilness of that)
<diddledan> hint. xzip
<intrbiz> shauno: surely that would do a file level copy, rather than a raw byte by byte copy which dd does
<diddledan> intrbiz, with linux systems a file-level copy is sufficient
<intrbiz> diddledan: not in all situations
<diddledan> the only bit you'd need to dd is the mbr
<diddledan> but grub-install can bypass that
<intrbiz> diddledan: there are times where you want a byte by byte clone of the disk
<diddledan> I'm a pervert - got choccy-fudge cake! \o/
<daftykins> diddledan: :O
<daftykins> i haven't even done food yet
<shauno> lol, nah, no compression.  just tar cf --one-file-system - | (cd /somewhere/else; tar xvpf -)
<intrbiz> diddledan: plus you'd need to ensure tar copies things like extended attributes and capabilities
<shauno> (or throw ssh in the middle to be evil)
<intrbiz> shauno: or netcat
<diddledan> ssh localhost tar Jcf --one-file-system - | ssh localhost tar Jxf - -C /somewhere/else
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> mess with all the things
<diddledan> !
<shauno> okay, it seems I need to build my own sdl
<diddledan> \o/
<daftykins> ok i think i won, i used the windows installer to create the same partitions then booted back into clonezilla to restore image partition -> actual partition
<daftykins> seems to be working O_.
<shauno> does windows not have a built-in widget to do this?  lol
<daftykins> do what?
<shauno> migrate drives
<daftykins> not that i know of ^_^
<daftykins> i like clonezilla though, just didn't realise it would be so protective it wouldn't let you restore an image onto a smaller disk if the sum of the partitions are < the new disk
<shauno> eg, on my mac I'd just take the old drive out, put a new drive in, stick the old drive in an external caddy, and then when the installer asks, point it to the external
<daftykins> well i don't have such a caddy y'see
<daftykins> the alternative approach would've been to put two disks in a desktop, which i don't feel like doing :>
<daftykins> no SATA ports free on my deskie
<shauno> a nerd that doesn't have one of those top-loading externals?!
<daftykins> hell to the no
<shauno> :(
<daftykins> but yeah as it happens disk to disk wouldn't have worked anyway due to the silly size thing
<daftykins> partition to partition only works if they exist on both sides, which is odd
<daftykins> ook cloned already \o/
<diddledan> that were quick
<daftykins> well, i restored the win7 100MB and 100GB, it failed to boot but my win7 flash drive fixed boot, it chkdsk'd, then all is ok
<daftykins> so a bit messy but it worked :>
<daftykins> dd'ing the boot sector and partitions might've been easier, albeit with more unnecessary writes
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/obtivmgxs0nitj2/VID_20150313_213725.mp4?dl=0
<daftykins> there's the super noisy unjustified resolution vid ;D
<daftykins> these might be a new addiction - https://www.dropbox.com/s/mmrykai5qihrode/IMG_20150309_192112.jpg?dl=0
<shauno> hm, the wee book that comes with the new pi feels quite meaty, but it turns out there's nothing in it.  130 pages of nothing  lol
<daftykins> blank!?
<shauno> nah, "the hdmi cable goes in the hdmi slot" in 16 languages
<shauno> I really should find more to do with them though.  I have 5 now :/
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> ugh, yep linecard issue confirmed =|
<daftykins> 4 packets dropped to telco first hop IP and google UK at the same time
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/2icy3e3tz9469zm/pingpong.png?dl=0
<mapp> so yea
<mapp> my date stood me up
 * mapp expected
<daftykins> =[
<mapp> thought that would happen
<daftykins> how come?
<mapp> well just seemed to want attention and mess me about
<mapp> 'oh dont know what im doing bla bla' usua;l excuses
<mapp> i expect she's back with her ex
<daftykins> messy!
<daftykins> mapp: where in the world are you this evening then?
<diddledan> itsnotyouitsme, why the pingpong?
<daftykins> a mate finally found and gave back to me a 320GB USB 2 HDD i gave him a few years ago :D
<daftykins> syncing up my music collection to it now \o/
<zmoylan-pi> 320gb... seemed huge back then... my first external usb hd was 500mb
<daftykins> :)
<diddledan> I'm busy copying data from a JBOD to a raid-5-ish windows storage space with both arrays being the same set of drives
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, my first internal was 20MB
<diddledan> it was huge
<zmoylan-pi> same here but office had 5 and 10mb full height drives for cpm computers that we used as doorstops
<zmoylan-pi> 10k brand new
<daftykins> diddledan: partitions for each? 0o
<diddledan> we had a 20MB HardCard, too, but it was cronky so we split it into two partitions using spinrite to get the bad bits mostly in one of the partitions
<diddledan> daftykins, nope, exactly the same bits of disc
<zmoylan-pi> oooooh had a hard card too. on a wobbly daughter board as it was too short to reach the supports on front end of case
<daftykins> what on earth voodoo are you performing there, diddledan O_O
<diddledan> daftykins, INORITE
<diddledan> daftykins, it's magic
<diddledan> daftykins, but it's workibng
<daftykins> diddledan: you just got jealous of my disk fun, didn't you?
<diddledan> :-)
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> ok i have a curry to fetch
<diddledan> I wanna buy some bigger ones
<daftykins> bbl
<diddledan> tata
<shauno> you're tempting murphy there :p  I'd stick with "but it looks like it's working" for now ;)
<daftykins> ^ lol
<daftykins> so true
<diddledan> shauno, always with the irish, you.
<shauno> "sod's law" is more difficult to work with.  you can't morph it into "tempting sod"
<shauno> well this is getting interesting.  debuild can't build libsdl2 even before modifications
<diddledan> eep
<shauno> configure's failing without giving a message.  thx configure.
<diddledan> I've yet to figure out how autotools actually work
<shauno> protip: they don't
<shauno> hm, it seems to be quite upset that 'uname -p' returns 'unknown'
<shauno> okay, nope, both my real machines do that too
<shauno> found it :)  http://paste.ubuntu.com/10593621/
<diddledan> doesn't like the stack-protector flag
<shauno> yeah.  I have no idea where that's coming from though.  that string doesn't exist in the source folder
<shauno> so autoconf is adding it?
<shauno> okay, ugliest fix ever \o/
<shauno> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10593686/  :D
<shauno> (interestingly, that string is in Vendor/Debian.pm but not Vendor/Ubuntu.pm)
<shauno> okay, I give.  I'm gonna start on a plain wheezy and stuff them both in.  this is daft.
#ubuntu-uk 2015-03-14
<daftykins> hi late night team, i return!
<daftykins> i have 1.9 poppadoms and a tub of dip - and i'm not afraid to use them
<daftykins> oh and a free beer!
<daftykins> i do like their generosity
<shauno> 1.9?
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> product reviews make me chuckle, re: a plotter: "cannot be wireless and wired at the same time"
<shauno> okay.  Time for bed, said zebedee.  Boing!
<daftykins> nn sir o/
<mapp> hi all
<MooDoo> morning all
<zmoylan-pi> pi day \o/
<MooDoo> no it's not
<MooDoo> 14/03/2015 isn't pi day
<MooDoo> :p
 * zmoylan-pi makes note 'no pi for MooDoo'
<MooDoo> :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> howdy brobostigon how are you?
<brobostigon> hangover central. and you?
<MooDoo> at work for the next few hours due to a system upgrade
<brobostigon> oh dear.
<MooDoo> I don't have to do a lot, just be here for the moment.
<brobostigon> ok,
<MooDoo> we're listening to radio 4 lol while i setup a dhcp server at home lol
<brobostigon> :)
<popey> morning
<brobostigon> morning popey
<MooDoo> howdy popey
<MooDoo> at work
<daftykins> "who shall we dispense with now, Mischief?" - https://www.dropbox.com/s/u6k7smfcd4z66od/IMG_20150314_162115.jpg?dl=0
<mapp> hm
<Azelphur> hey folks, got a TV here which I plug into via HDMI. The laptop detects it, I tick enable and hit apply, the GUI still says its disabled and the display doesn't come up, but I can't enable it again
<penguin42> Azelphur: I'd check with xrandr
<daftykins> full cold boot with it in? read Xorg.0.log?
<Azelphur>  daftykins trying that now, brb
<daftykins> though i prefer penguin42's idea :D
<daftykins> guys look what they're doing to our simple island!
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/cz32cipbv8fdu8s/IMG_20150314_171952.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> it's a... it's a Starbucks O_O
<penguin42> civilisation at last
<penguin42> (although I generally prefer Cafe Nero's for hot chocolate)
<daftykins> we already have 2 Costa
 * daftykins giggles at Quicktime still not doing full screen
<daftykins> in other news it's cruise ship season almost
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/59cmq6ancgf1gwl/IMG_20150314_164658.jpg?dl=0
<Azelphur> daftykins, hmm strange after a reboot it just doesn't talk to the laptop at all
<daftykins> how about xrandr as penguin42 suggested? no output?
<Azelphur> daftykins, says everything is disconnected
<daftykins> Xorg log even see it?
<Azelphur> daftykins, yup, it's gone lol
<Azelphur> guess that tv is a little dead too
<daftykins> one of those cheap foreign brands?
<Azelphur> bush, so yea :p
<daftykins> hrmm
<Azelphur> I think I'll take my laptop and test it back on my tv at home to see if it's my laptop or the tv that has gone
<daftykins> Azelphur: just to be sure you're not lazily grep'ing Xorg.0.log for hdmi? sometimes i've seen it come up as the wrong connection type o0
<daftykins> i'd expect there to be something in there for sure
<Azelphur> daftykins, http://paste.ubuntu.com/10598533/
<daftykins> mmm LVDS and VGA
<diddledan> I really don't get how that makes sense: [     3.202] (II) intel(0): RandR 1.2 enabled, ignore the following RandR disabled message. [     3.203] (--) RandR disabled
<daftykins> i do always giggle at that
<daftykins> "it works, honest!"
<penguin42> that is weird, you sure you've got an HDMI socket :-)
<penguin42> Azelphur: Is this a laptop with both an Intel and an Nvidia/ATI chip?
<daftykins> you'd see some nouveau talk or radeon talk i would think
<penguin42> daftykins: No, not necessarily
<Azelphur> penguin42, yup
<daftykins> o rry
<penguin42> daftykins: The BIOS can switch between them and if the bios switches the nvidia off the host doesn't see it
<penguin42> Azelphur: Right, so I suspect your HDMI port is connected only to your Nvidia, you either need bittlebee or to forcibly to switch to the nvidia in the bios
<daftykins> see everyone always says this, but actually i've only seen BIOS switchable with nvidia in about 5% or less of cases
<daftykins> typically it just does the whole drawing via the intel
<Azelphur> penguin42, never needed to do that before
<penguin42> daftykins: Yeh they only happen on higher end laptops and then some of them only wire some of the ports through some of the controllers
<daftykins> i've got an optimus asus myself
<penguin42> daftykins: I've fought a couple of thinkpads with them in the past
<daftykins> it's become so much more messy to advise intel+nvidia hybrid graphics installs in #ubuntu :(
<penguin42> Azelphur: I suspect that after the reboot the nvidia has kicked out and hence you're now only seeing the Intel for some reason
<daftykins> had one the other day that didn't work with my suggestions, but then the user installed just nvidia-331 and it worked o0
<penguin42> yeh I've only run them in one mode or the other not the joint mode
<daftykins> mmm, i've never seen setups where that's a choice
<daftykins> other than to say, not install anything nvidia
<penguin42> the Lenovo's had bios settings to let you choose between the 3 modes
<daftykins> hmm
<daftykins> that would definitely be nicer
<mapp> hmm
<mapp> met a girl las night again who i already briefly know..really pretty black girl
<mapp> may aswell ask her out..gives me something to do
<mapp> then i can moan when it goes wrong
<mapp> ;]
<penguin42> good luck :-)
<popey> evening all
<diddledan> allo popey
<diddledan> daftykins, http://netalyzr.icsi.berkeley.edu/
<daftykins> err
<diddledan> shame it's java
#ubuntu-uk 2015-03-15
<mapp> hi all
<mapp> diddledan
<mapp> diod you watch ep 2 of csi cyber
<MooDoo> morning all
<MooDoo> mapp: i did
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
 * penguin42 uses the phrase 'a pool of gently festering chocolate goo' in a mail to ambrosia to explain why they need to improve the packaging on their chocolate custard
<zmoylan-pi> their marketing department will waste a lot of time trying to work that into an advert
<penguin42> and I'll be proud if they do
<zmoylan-pi> nah, you'll be out looking for an intact carton of chocolate custard
<daftykins> penguin42: :D
<daftykins> i had an almost impossible decision at a restaurant for lunch, cheesecake... sticky toffee pudding or brownie
<penguin42> so you got all of them?
<daftykins> nah, just the one! i've gained a bit too much weight during the downtime since hospital
<penguin42> so it was the STP ?
<daftykins> i find it's tough for them to get that one right, so i went brownie - controversially
<penguin42> well, chocolatey goodness - no cfc available?
<daftykins> chlorofluorocarbons ? o0
<penguin42> Chocolate Fudge Cake
<diddledan> choccy fudge cake is teh awesome
<penguin42> nod, especially when it's given like 10s in a microwave to fudgicate it
<daftykins> no fudge cake nope :(
<daftykins> as it was i was going to stop drinking Guinness but i snuck a 4 pack into my shopping Friday
<daftykins> and polished off two last night before bed ;)
<diddledan> the google mothering sunday doodle is cute
<daftykins> ^_^
<SuperEngineer> hurumph!  get-iplayer still snafu'd by BBC!
<daftykins> :(
<daftykins> i'm sure someone in here had it working well after i'd noticed it was borked also
 * SuperEngineer composes letter "Dear Beeb, you ba***rds"
<daftykins> i was definitely trying the latest build from the site of whoever took over development
<SuperEngineer> [I wouldn't mind so much if they didn't have a hate campaign against all those who had to work today and wanted to see a replay of F1]
 * SuperEngineer wonders if there is a discrimination case against the beeb to be had out of this ;)
<diddledan> it annoys me that the beeb only have highlights of f1 on the iplayer instead of a full replay (when they had the full play rights to a race as opposed to sky-crippled highlights-only)
<SuperEngineer> +1
<diddledan> I get that they agreed that sky get full-play to all races and the beeb only get full-play on some, but if they had full-play on a particular race I don't see why they can't put that on the iplayer
<diddledan> it was a bit of a slap in the face by the beeb in agreeing to the deal anyway
<SuperEngineer> again, +1
<diddledan> I'm betting bernie ecclestone made a mint though, so it's all good -_-
<daftykins> :(
<diddledan> it looks like sky only do highlights replay, too
<SuperEngineer> what, surely not! are you suggesting Ecclestone is finance only focused & couldn't give a damn about anybody but himself?!!!  That is an awful suggestion...
<SuperEngineer> ..shame it's true though ;)
<daftykins> on the bright side guys, you only need to see a couple of laps 'cause the rest are monotonous, so surely highlights are best :D
<mapp> hi all
<diddledan> allo
<daftykins> evenin'
<shauno> eyup
<daftykins> setting up 2 factor authentication on my xbox account was kinda fun, turning on my xbox one asked me to authorise it on my phone app... so i pulled it out of my pocket and just had to hit 'yes' \o/
<daftykins> though i'm concerned that's yet another app running constantly on the ol' phone, sapping juice
<daftykins> 4GB DDR3 ordered for that cheap Â£208 Lenovo laptop, Â£20.99 delivered \o/
<daftykins> that thing is now crazy fast with the free SSD too :)
<penguin42> which laptop?
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/7t7n5llpq5dyuc7/AACsIO22uCVR3MUceENXe3yla?dl=0
<daftykins> this'un
<daftykins> bit chunky at 15", but it'll do for the old girl
<daftykins> free printer too, still don't know what to do with that :P
<daftykins> the 7mm thick 500GB HDD in that thing is so skinny... https://www.dropbox.com/s/8xbkunl846l085x/IMG_20150314_154708.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> there's it beside one manufactured in 2012
<penguin42> well it's not like the SSD needs the space for heads or platters or things that have to move over each other
<daftykins> nah, both those are mechanical
<daftykins> must be a single platter with the skinny one
<penguin42> nod
<daftykins> but yeah that 180GB intel SSD in there is flying now :) bit more mother proof since it can be flung around now too
<penguin42> haha
<diddledan> m00
<shauno> mee00w.
<zmoylan-pi> m=0000w
 * diddledan stroke the kitty shauno 
<popey> pip pip
<diddledan> allo
<daftykins> evening
<daftykins> just finished The Blues Brothers \o/
<daftykins> now i need to pick a cheap graphics card for a friend, hmm
<daftykins> nvidia GT 730 seems tempting 0o
<diddledan> hehe - blues bros rock
<daftykins> that they do :D
<zmoylan-pi> the sequel was never going to be as good but i enjoyed it
<popey> daftykins: i need a new graphics card at some point
<popey> wtf GTA 5 pushed back _again_
<daftykins> popey: what's the popey game machine rocking at the moment?
 * popey wakes it up
<popey> something crusty
<daftykins> :D
<popey> GTX 460 IIRC
<daftykins> mmmhmm, do you have any budget in mind?
<daftykins> nvidia 960s or 970s seem pretty nifty
<popey> Yes, GTX 460
<popey> will i be able to just pull the old card out and put a new one in?
<popey> no additional PSU / mobo / cables etc?
<daftykins> mmm depends if your one right now uses any PCI Express graphics power connectors from the PSU
<daftykins> i'm not 100% on what power the 460s required
<popey> yeah, will remove it from the pc at some point and examine it more closely
<popey> my pc is not new / fast
<popey> it works
<daftykins> just an lspci entry should be plenty to go on?
<popey> its in windows right now :)
<daftykins> ah
<daftykins> devmgmt.msc 8D
 * webpigeon_ has a 660  in his
 * popey reboots it
<daftykins> appears to be Â£170~ for GTX 960s with 2GB, or ouch - Â£260+ for a GTX 970 4GB
<popey> thats out of my budget
<popey> I think no more than ~100 quid or so
<daftykins> GTX 750 Ti then perhaps
<popey> much of a step up from 460?
<popey> worth it?
<daftykins> lets pop them into the anandtech benchmarkerator
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10607008/ is my pc
<popey> crusty msi mobo MS-7680
<popey> i7-2600 @ 3.4GHz
<daftykins> H61's a happy chappy, mmm 1155 sandybridge
<daftykins> http://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-GTX-750-Ti-vs-Nvidia-GTX-460/2187vs2167
<daftykins> hrmm
<webpigeon_> to be filled in my OEM is my favourite thing to see in dmidecode
<daftykins> doesn't seem like too much of a jump actually, that might be too low a budget
<daftykins> http://gpuboss.com/gpus/GeForce-GTX-750-Ti-vs-GeForce-GTX-460
<daftykins> http://anandtech.com/bench/product/1135?vs=1130 closest i could find there was the GTX 480
<popey> hmm
<popey> might have to spend a bit more
<daftykins> the 970 in comparison tramples even the 480 by a factor of 3 times higher framerates across the board, but is quite pricey - no entry in the table for the 960 sadly
<daftykins> i think the 960 would be your best bet
<daftykins> http://www.legitreviews.com/should-i-upgrade-my-geforce-gtx-460-to-a-geforce-gtx-960-video-card_157808/3
<daftykins> cor, as if by magic
<directhex> i hav a 6600. this pc's had a few upgrades over the years
<directhex> still needs replacement
<directhex> er, 660 not 6600
<daftykins> directhex: would you concur on a 960 being a nice choice?
<directhex> yeah, 960 is a good value card
<directhex> 4 of them! quad sli!
<daftykins> XD
<popey> i doubt my mobo could take more than one :)
<popey> oooh!
<popey> It's my birthday soon!
<popey> right, if someone else is buying (although it comes out of a joint account so technically I am buying) what card should I get :D
<daftykins> http://www.overclockers.co.uk/productlist.php?groupid=701&catid=1914&subid=2379
<daftykins> i like Asus ones i think
<daftykins> i tend to just go with highest warranty
<daftykins> hmm Zotac has 5 year
<daftykins> i don't trust pre-overclocked cards though, always been burnt by those
<popey> i had to replace the fans on this card
<daftykins> do you recall the brand?
<popey> i can probably find it in my past purchase history, one mo
<popey> wifey asked me today if I wanted anything specifically on my amazon wishlist
<daftykins> suddenly a graphics card appears as #1 :D
<popey> 01de:0beb
<popey> indeed!
<popey> does the pci id reveal mfr?
<popey> can't find the email
<daftykins> i don't seem to be getting much from google
<popey> http://uk.ign.com/articles/2015/01/13/gta-5-pc-release-date-and-system-specifications-announced says march 24
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Grand-Theft-Auto-V-PC/dp/B00KL3W478 says april 14
<daftykins> good ol' Rockstar, cashing in on the consoles most likely
<webpigeon_> before the : should be the vendor ID, but i can't find any data on the vendor
<daftykins> mmm same
<popey> probably some cheapo crap
<popey> i only have one 1080p screen attached, most games i play run at that resolution with sufficient stuff turned on for me to be entertained
<daftykins> yeah 2GB would be fine for that imo
<daftykins> there's talk of 4GB 960s but i think that just tends to be a 'bigger number' trap, or only benefit 4K types
<webpigeon_> pointless anyway, opengl (used to, don't know if it still does) keep a copy of the texture in main memory anyway
<popey> this box has uh.. 8GB i think
<daftykins> i suspect we're firmly talking Direct3D for GTA V on PC
<webpigeon_> if it's on Windows only, probably
<directhex> popey: in most cases, no, pci id doesn't say manuf
<directhex> HOWEVER
<directhex> subsystem id does.
<popey> yeah, GTA V is windows only i think
<directhex> "lspci -v" will show subsystem
<daftykins> nice to know my lovely old Q6600 Core 2 Quad is now minimum spec :>
<directhex> 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation GK106 [GeForce GTX 660] (rev a1) (prog-if 00 [VGA controller])
<directhex>         Subsystem: ZOTAC International (MCO) Ltd. Device 1281
<popey> ah interesting
<directhex> 03:00.0 SATA controller: JMicron Technology Corp. JMB363 SATA/IDE Controller (rev 02) (prog-if 01 [AHCI 1.0])
<directhex>         Subsystem: Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd Motherboard
<directhex> subsystems are exciting
<ChloeWolfieGirl> popey so is Ori ;-; Windows and xbo exclusive so I dont get to play ;-; and MS must have paid to get some windows 8 and wp8 TY the tasmanian tiger exclusives... I miss TY ;-;
<directhex> ori is a unity3d game, they could port it to linux in 2 clicks. ms paid for exclusivity
<popey> oh, that worked
<popey> Gigabyte
<daftykins> ChloeWolfieGirl: i bought that \o/
<daftykins> very fun so far, but i've not had the time to go back
<ChloeWolfieGirl> directhex, Its made by microsoft studios, the same people who made dust, so theres still hope :P
<popey> I bought a game off humble bundle, turned out to be Mac (and iOS only).
<directhex> not that simple
<popey> I tweeted at the developer, my annoyance, and they gave me a code for iOS version of the game, which was nice of them.
<directhex> *published* by microsoft game studios. developed by a small indie
<directhex> generally, exclusivity involves bribes.
<popey> yeah
<popey> see also No Mans Sky
<popey> :(
<popey> So sad that's PS4 exclusive
<ChloeWolfieGirl> daftykins I played a bit of it on the XBO, its so pretty and fun
<daftykins> +1 to that :)
<daftykins> alright time for bed, g'night all \o have a good week
<diddledan> nn
<ChloeWolfieGirl> nigh Nigh daftykins
#ubuntu-uk 2016-03-14
<mappps> hi
<mappps> bosch season 2 is out, yay;D
<MooDoo> morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<davmor2> Morning all you funky people
<bigcalm> Who likes beer, steam trains and an evening of good/raucous fun? We need to find a date for this year's RAT: http://doodle.com/poll/qw7ehwk5dnweviyp
<Laney> is there floor/sofa/bed space available?
<Laney> :)
<zmoylan-pi> how many tonnes of coal can you shovel per hour? :-P
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: depends how much I'm being paid
<davmor2> bigcalm: bit early for you isn't it
<bigcalm> davmor2: I'm here to promote the RAT
<davmor2> bigcalm: you should talk to JamesTait he's caught a few apparently :D
<zmoylan-pi> there's probably an ointment for that... :-)
<MooDoo> roland rat?
<zmoylan-pi> eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bigcalm> Dave, popey, czajkowski: RAT? http://doodle.com/poll/qw7ehwk5dnweviyp
<czajkowski> bigcalm: cheers
<bigcalm> czajkowski: will you be married by then?
<czajkowski> yup
<Dave> already?
<Dave> That was to the RAT survey
<czajkowski> 5 weeks time
<Dave> Not marriage.
<bigcalm> Dave: yes, I started planning last years in Feb
<bigcalm> It's a bit late this time
<czajkowski>  /c
<bigcalm> popey: I am holding you responsible for my ordering a Pebble Time
<popey> Excellent.
<popey> I love mine
<bigcalm> Now that I've ordered it, I want it now!
<bigcalm> I've become far too accustomed to Amazon Prime
<popey> heh
<popey> I have a keyboard arriving today
<popey> was on special offer on amazon last week
<zmoylan-pi> going cheap, great keyboard as long as you don't need the letter e? :-)
<Myrtti> does RAT have any nice non-alcholic drinks or is it just ale and such?
<Myrtti> and is the non-alcoholic just bogstandard cola and lemonade?
<zmoylan-pi> that would be a great brand name for softdrinks... bogstandard... :-)
<Myrtti> lol
<Myrtti> true
<Myrtti> gah I need to get dressed
<Myrtti> jammin' in my jammies doesn't work when I need to do a village walk to the library and pharmacy
<zmoylan-pi> for that you need a tux onsie... :-D
<Myrtti> need to go flip some Which? magazines, not superexcited but someone has to do it
<Myrtti> BBL
<foobarry> what u choosing from which Myrtti
<bigcalm> Myrtti: I think it's just your run of the mill cans and such. I'm not sure. Full details here: http://www.watercressline.co.uk/product.php/10/real-ale-train-r-a-t
<zmoylan-pi> reading which which magazine to decide which which magazine to read...
<foobarry> i'm in 2 minds about pi day
<foobarry> due to the US date format, which is illogical
<foobarry> we always have 22/7 but it is a poor approximation, but then again 3.14 is worse
<Myrtti> foobarry: lots of things :-)
<foobarry> does your library do online mag subs thru zinio?
<Myrtti> bigcalm: yeah, that's what I thought. D doesn't drink and I don't much either so it's a bit meh if it's just RWhites and whatnot.
<foobarry> mine does but most were gay times and hello magazine
<Myrtti> foobarry: yeah, but I don't have a library card yet
<Myrtti> so I can't log in
<popey> \o/ new keyboard time
<foobarry> cherry or nipple?
<popey> cherry
<popey> humph
<popey> supposed to be uk layout, is US
<foobarry> heh
 * popey checks his order
<foobarry> colleague had the same happen to him
<foobarry> was a cheap chinese knockoff
<foobarry> so is taking the keys and putting on a new keyboard "chassis"
<popey> already pressed # instead of enter multiple times
<popey> hah
<zmoylan-pi> a mate ordered wireless keyboard and mouse set and got a wireless keyboard and wired mouse... not a happy bunny but it was exactly as described... :-P
<popey> bah, it says english layout, should have checked better#
<popey> gah!  ð
<foobarry> US english.
<foobarry> sneakty
<foobarry> my local council website has every page that is the leaf of the html tree as a pdf
<foobarry> really annoying
<foobarry> you can't just browse the site looking for the info u want
<foobarry> ooh it appears my library now has better zinio mags
<foobarry> linux format, linux user, finescale modeler
<foobarry> 2 different minecraft mags , 4 different quilting
<popey> good job this keyboard is actually for the "gaming" computer
<zmoylan-pi> enough quilting magazine to make a bigger magazine... :-)
<Myrtti> lol
<Seeker`> popey: what games do you play?
<popey> Seeker`: mostly stuff on steam
<popey> popeydc is my steam id if you want to see :)
<Seeker`> I'll have a look when I get home :)
<Myrtti> and to my disappointment it turns out that the village library doesn't in fact carry Which? magazine. And no library card means no online mags either.
<davmor2> Seeker`: popey plays monkey island, jetset willy, manic miner, and beneath a steel sky if he says anything else he is lying ;)
<Seeker`> no leisure suit larry?
<popey> i got scummvm working on ubuntu phone
<davmor2> Seeker`: only after completing guantlet
<popey> so yeah, leisure suit larry could be :)
<diddledan> larry ftw!
<diddledan> new series I been watching - just started airing on alibi - quantico. tis awesome!
<diddledan> another one that looks like it's gonna turn out fun is blindspot
<foobarry> has anyone used rpy2 for mixing python code with R?
<davmor2> john oliver on encryption hilarious sadly true but hilarious :)
<davmor2> nsfw
<diddledan> wtf? MS actually have their own distro of Linux based on Debian (specialised for network switches) http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/03/09/microsoft_sonic_debian/
<diddledan> davmor2, no linky?
<davmor2> diddledan: first they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win
<diddledan> davmor2, does that fall under the "embrace, extend, extinguish" banner? :--p
<davmor2> diddledan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=012tbFzd0R4
<diddledan> danke
<Myrtti> diddledan: https://twitter.com/mjg59/status/707868846812741633
<diddledan> lol
<Myrtti> well, turns out Zinio doesn't even have Which?, so that's moot too. I need to go to the town to fiddle with the physical copies then
<popey> ali1234: saw this and thought of you https://twitter.com/grim_fandango/status/709490922883575810
<ali1234> popey: he's my only user
<popey> hah!
<ali1234> http://www.alphr.com/life-culture/1002880/the-teletext-salvagers-how-vhs-is-bringing-teletext-back-from-the-dead
<popey> oh I'd not seen it written up
<ali1234> i dont think anyone did
<ali1234> i got more emails after it was on boingboing
<ali1234> more than zero that is :)
<ali1234> also pretty sure that is where mr o'malley saw it
<popey> :)
<popey> is he just collecting VHS tapes and scouring them for teletext streams?
<ali1234> yes? also other teletext related activities, but i don't know exactly what
<ali1234> there's a facebook group... but i don't check it that often.... because facebook
<popey> neat
<ali1234> there's also a podcast :)
<popey> a podcast, about teletext in 2016? :)
<popey> brilliant
<ali1234> i warn you know, it's not a high quality production
<ali1234> but yes
<zmoylan-pi> you have to listen to it 2-3 times before it makes sense? :-)
<ali1234> sometimes
<ali1234> they do talk over each other a lot, and then don't edit it out
<popey> please tell me episode one is numbered 100 ?
<ali1234> sadly not
<zmoylan-pi> 103 tells you were all the good episodes will be...
<diddledan> I wonder why amazon doesn't support Firefox for HTML5 video?
<diddledan> only Chrome is supported on loonicks
<diddledan> better than nothing though
<ahayzen> probably the same DRM reason as netflix ?
<diddledan> I thought Firefox did DRM these days?
<ahayzen> not sure i remember it having parts of it
<ahayzen> maybe try changing the user agent and see if they are just blacklisting :-)
#ubuntu-uk 2016-03-15
<awilkins> OK....... T460s or Carbon X1   ?
<awilkins> ANd : Oh, this isn't sinister and evil AT ALL : http://www.computerweekly.com/news/4500278518/New-UK-law-will-criminalise-failure-to-hack-on-demand
<diddledan> awilkins, eek
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzpW10DPHeQ <-- the 5th computer-vs-human game of GO is nearing the finish line
<awilkins> Speaking as someone who wants to make an electronic health records system potentially so secure that only the patient can access it, that makes me want to move to Sweden.
<awilkins> The hacking thing, not AlphaGo
<awilkins> That makes me want to move to the Culture
<diddledan> awilkins, yeah the IP bill seems a lot worse than everyone feared it would it
<diddledan> be*
<awilkins> Teach a deep learning computer to govern the world in peace and prosperity next, Google.
<awilkins> The vagueness in the IPB is being filled out with the sinister that was previously being kept behind the curtain
<diddledan> it's already illegal to not incriminate yourself by witholding your own encryption keys
<diplo> Very scary stuff awilkins, I don't want to live here anymore :/
<Myrtti> diplo: newsflash: not many places are any better
<Oli> Iceland looks tempting.
<diplo> Oh I know that!
<diplo> I was aabout to say that Oli :)
<awilkins> Hence the Culture...
<awilkins> I think Banks said once it started as a bunch of orbital settlements that wanted to break away from their tyrannical planet-based masters....
<diplo> But the IPBill is going way way way way further than most other places
<Myrtti> I long dreamed that we'd move to Finland once kids are old enough to start school. Looks like the most tempting reason for moving there, education, is being fed to the wolves. There goes that dream then
<diplo> I'd like to live there too... but with my kids it's never going to happen
<awilkins> Myrtti, Whaat, I heard all these good things about how awesome Finland's education system was
<awilkins> I presume it costs money or something and the rich people can't be having that?
<awilkins> Funny how as GDP goes up, we need more and more cuts to pay for tax breaks for those in the upper strata of society.
<Myrtti> awilkins: well yes, the rightwing government is making cuts that undermime the quality of university studies, and even if that's an issue to my kids in 20 years, it affects the students studying to be teachers sooner
<Oli> The main thing about the UK at the moment is if we're so broke that we're privatising the NHS, withdrawing welfare from people with spare rooms, making severely disabled people prove they're still severely disabled every 6 months... Why aren't we just paying a bit more tax? I can't be the only person who'd happily pay an extra 5%-10% now if that meant there'd still be a hospital when I need...
<Oli> ...it in 20 years time.
<awilkins> Oli, Because that's literally the aim of the incumbent government - they want private to be the only option in 20 years time
<Myrtti> Oli: BUUUUUUTTT tories
<Myrtti> because USA health care works so well
<Oli> Well. I wish they wouldn't.
<awilkins> Latest budget cut : Â£1.2B from 600,000 disabled people.
<awilkins> To pay for a hike in the higher rate tax band
<diddledan> USA has universal healthcare for gunshot wounds
<awilkins> Â£2,000 from each disabled person so that the 17% with the highest incomes in this country can get an extra Â£200 a year
<Oli> Why don't we just incinerate all the disabled people then? Surely that's where they're going with this.
<awilkins> Speaking as someone who's usually in that income bracket, that disgusts me.
<diddledan> Oli, what a good idea. you should tell your tory MP about that
<diplo> I look away for 2 minutes and I've lost the convo :D
<diddledan> diplo, it's right here ^^^^
<awilkins> Pertinent documentary footage : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owI7DOeO_yg
<diplo> I'm slow at reading today :) full of man flu :D
<Oli> diddledan: I'm from Norfolk, so I don't have to look far for a Tory MP. He's probably on a benefit cheat hunt right now. They're only allowed to use the dogs for scenting though.
<awilkins> I'm in a ward that the Tory got into by 700 votes
<awilkins> I'm ashamed to say I voted for one of the left-wing protest parties because I thought it was a safe Labour seat, but I think the 'kippers swung it for the Tories around here
<Oli> UKIP did that for a lot of places.
<awilkins> I get the feeling my Mother in law is a kipper
<diddledan> I've got Maria Miller as my MP IIRC
<awilkins> Whenever we discuss the health service, her go-to is that immigrants are wrecking it
<diddledan> gah
<awilkins> (or : keeping it running, 26% of doctors are immigrants...)
<Oli> Immigrants ARE the health service. Indeed.
<Oli> When you make it cost Â£50k to become a doctor here, don't be surprised when you have to start shipping them in.
<diddledan> BREAKING NEWS: lee sedol resigned
<Oli> And start making trainee nurses pay tuition AND work for nothing.
<diddledan> 4-1 to the terminators
<awilkins> That nurses one is a doozy
<awilkins> I knew a lot of student nurses when I was a student doc
<awilkins> Their training is basically "work as a nurse only ask questions when you don't know something"
<diddledan> the NHS staff are the best people that are treated like the worst
<awilkins> In other words, it's an apprenticeship. And they're not even paying them like apprentices.
<Myrtti> I love NHS. NHS is great.
<diddledan> ditto, Myrtti
<Myrtti> http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/feb/23/finland-health-system-failing-welfare-state-high-taxes
<diddledan> everyone I've met in the NHS have been nothing but awesome to me, even when I have done silly things to myself through being a nutter
<awilkins> Spending on health improves the economy, by what, 2.5x what you spent on it?
<Oli> Nah, spend more money on intercepting naked snapchats.
<diddledan> yey winkypic
<awilkins> Myrtti, That Finland thing, they spend 7% of GDP compared to the UK at 8%?  The UK spending *peaked* at 8.8% in 2009... it's been going downhill since then, predicted 7.2% this year.
<awilkins> I don't know what kind of private/public mix Finland has but 7% is way too low even for an entirely public service.
<diddledan> awilkins, because "Labour misspending"!
<awilkins> diddledan, The economy is recovering - it's in growth... and the GDP we spend on the NHS can't even remain static....
<awilkins> Recovery for the rich, penury for the rest of us.
<Oli> Love the top comment though. "Terrible picture you painted. A country where only one out of the three is failing."
<Myrtti> awilkins: but UK has the benefit of numbers on it's side, and distances aren't great. They're centralising *everything* healthcare in there and it's just getting worse
<diddledan> awilkins, but. but. austerity!
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bashrc> good tzag
<diddledan> we need to stop spending money on social things because they prevent a decent war-fund
<bashrc> funny how they have no problem finding money for war or mass surveillance
<diddledan> of course the more wars we can start the better!
<Myrtti> I should go change my clothes and get some brekkie, today is "receive all the parcels day" and it'd be nice to greet the postie in something else than a nightshirt
<bashrc> and those nuclear submarines, even though the cold war ended however many decades ago
<diddledan> bashrc, you shouldn't worry about mass surveillance if you aren't doing norty things
<Myrtti> bashrc: buuut nukes get rid of al'qaida!
<Myrtti> fer realz
<diddledan> Myrtti, TOYS!
<diddledan> parcels = fun shiny
<Myrtti> diddledan: mostly stuff for the car that I have no joy over :-|
<diddledan> bah
<Myrtti> https://www.anker.com/products/A3351011 one of the things
<Oli> That's nice and cheap. Hmm. Tempting.
<Myrtti> yeah, it's better than the HTC bobble that we have now
<Myrtti> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bluedio-Shooting-Bluetooth-headphones-wireless/dp/B00Q2VIW9M/ and this, which I will enjoy
<Myrtti> not using it but enjoying the naps I can have on the sofa while dsample is watching something dismally bad and noisy on the telly
<Myrtti> last weekend I fell asleep watching tinykittens livestream. Woke up fifteen minutes later when he had put Continuum or something on and it was LOUD and BANGY
<awilkins> I've get_iplayered all the episodes of Meet the Kittens from the BBC when I need something cute
<Myrtti> http://livestream.com/tinykittens/savina
<Oli> Blimey, they are tiny.
<Myrtti> there were four but one failed to thrive and had to be helped over the rainbow bridge :-(
<Oli> :(
<Oli> What's the best channel for naughty kittens these days?
<Oli> http://livestream.com/accounts/3326724/Tribeca looks like it might be chaos when they're not all asleep.
<awilkins> http://www.bbc.co.uk/cbbc/watch/kittens-get-new-homes
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Tuesday, and happy True Confessions Day! ð
<Oli> Ermagerhd
<bigcalm> Damn this flash requirement
<diddledan> JamesTait, lies!
 * diddledan awaits davmor2
<MooDoo> morning all
<diddledan> allo o/
<davmor2> diddledan, JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhuyJKz395k easy
<davmor2> and Morning all
<davmor2> diddledan: also Morning head song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t99KH0TR-J4 JamesTait you'll appreciate that one too
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> davmor2, ð nice!
<ujjain> Can somebody fix any English mistakes in this phrase? >> "My little brother (22) would love to do his internship in Finance or Accounting abroad. The United States (J-1 Visa) and London would either be great! Can anybody give us some tips?"
<ujjain> looks more or less fine English right?
<diplo> Yep, although maybe "London, either of these locations would be great" ?
<popey> "My 22 year-old little brother"
<ujjain> My 22 year-old little brother would love to do his internship in Finance or Accounting abroad. The United States (J-1 Visa) and London, either of these locations would be great! Can anybody give us some tips?
<ujjain> "and London" or "or London"?
<diplo> or london I'd say
<ujjain> thanks a lot
<diplo> Otherwise you're saying that he'd like to do it both
<ujjain> ah right, makes sense.
<ujjain> I work with too many Polish people and I'm not an English native. Sometimes I feel my English isn't really improving.
<ujjain> But thanks a lot diplo and popey! :)
<popey> To be fair there was nothing wrong with your phrase
<popey> We were just nit-picking
<diplo> Yep, totally understandable :)
<ujjain> hihi, thanks! I heard my native English colleague use the words loft and pedestal. I silently looked up the words in the dictionary online.
<bigcalm> :D
<bigcalm> Loft is more of an Americanism, I'd say. British English would more likely use attic
<davmor2> bigcalm: Some people use the word Loft as a living space in and attic and the word attic is reserved for storage space in the roof instead :)
<bigcalm> Hummm, okay
<bigcalm> I can only speak from experience
<popey> Now you've said both words, i can't remember which one I use.
<bigcalm> One can still have lofty aspirations
<bigcalm> popey: there's a poll that's missing your input :)
<Seeker`> I use "Loft"
<popey> I know
<bigcalm> I wonder if a) the Watercress Line has a lost property, and b) how long they keep things if they do
<bigcalm> It would be nice to get my glasses back that I left on the train last year
<popey> I think you kinda needed to ask them last year
<popey> daviey got his phone back the next day
<bigcalm> Lucky him
<bigcalm> I'm too apathetic for my own good. I used it as an excuse to get a new pair of specs :D
<bashrc> question: in 16.04 will old kernel versions get cleared out automatically?
<davmor2> bashrc: they did in wily iirc
<davmor2> bashrc: and if not they are marked for autoremove so you can just run && sudo apt autoremove and they are gone
<bashrc> oh that's good. I asked elsewhere and apparently you can also use bleachbit
<ujjain> is there something to do this thursay with st patricksday in london? or the party of sunday was it?
<awilkins> Watching the IPB debate. Someone just pulled a "think of the children".
<MooDoo> ipb?
<MooDoo> ignore that
<brobostigon> investigatory powers bil.
<MooDoo> yeah just realised
<brobostigon> its a waste anyway, as a good proportion of the traffic on the internet is encrypted anyway, and there is nothing they can do to read anyway.
<brobostigon> and techniclly, there is nothing they can do,
<MooDoo> until the ISP's are required to put back doors in
<awilkins> Or the CAs are required to cede their private keys
<awilkins> Or the NSA infiltrates a SIM manufacturer covering 1/3rd of SIM cards ... ooops
<brobostigon> or they find a more efficienct and quicker way to break rsa/ecc etc.
<brobostigon> this is why i think hw like the yubikey is interesting, you can store your private keys on them, and they cant be bruteforced off,
<foobarry> wow ubuntu mate is starting to look a lot like elementary
<daftykins> how-so?
<ali1234> the default layout has a dock?
<ali1234> actually i'm not even sure if that's true
<daftykins> i thought it was still the gnome 2 looking one
<foobarry> client side decoration, dock, etc
<foobarry> gtk header bars
<foobarry> even using plank https://plus.google.com/+MartinWimpress/posts/aibudHBGxqT
<foobarry> in fact the screenshot looks very similar to my elementary. except for the hot corners, shadows, and i don't know how slick the multiple desktops are in mate
<foobarry> oh, shadows are in the screenshot, plus compositing
<diddledan> when did "the fappening" get renamed to "celebgate"? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-35817814
<zmoylan-pi> when the bbc didn't want to run a sidebar explaining fap?
 * daftykins chuckles
<daftykins> diddledan: that surface continues to perplex, i've got to get on the support line to Microsoft soon Â¬_Â¬
<diddledan> gah
<diddledan> sucky nuts
<daftykins> the thing did 24hrs barely dropping 5% battery, asleep, then the next morning i found it dead
<diddledan> o_O
<daftykins> client says it'll be flat whenever she reaches to use it
<diddledan> that's backasswards
<zmoylan-pi> calling ms for support... haven't done that since win 95...
<daftykins> :D i've never done it for an OS
<diddledan> I didn't know MS had a support line
<daftykins> i got a # from the US # that's on a reddit page
<daftykins> so you know, direct as usual
<zmoylan-pi> i did it for qbx, vb and dos and windows
<zmoylan-pi> the amount of times they lied to me...
<daftykins> *gasp*
<daftykins> they wouldn't!?
<diddledan> MS <3 Linux
<zmoylan-pi> my favourite was in days of windows 3.1. we were running excel in windows in enhanced mode on 286 ps/2 with intel above board that added 4mb of expanded memory (to a 286) and running novell on same computer as headless server
<zmoylan-pi> excel kept reporting out of memory so i ended up ringing ms after trying many many things
<zmoylan-pi> and when i told them the configuration of a 286 with expanded memory not extended memory their response was 'no it isn't'
<zmoylan-pi> couldn't get them to acknowledge the computers existence so got nowhere
<zmoylan-pi> in the end it was the video driver colour depth causing the error
<daftykins> it was too low?
<zmoylan-pi> too high.
<daftykins> they had colours back then!?
<zmoylan-pi> it was trying to do 256 colours but when i pushed it back to 16 colours it was ok
<daftykins> woohoo :>
<zmoylan-pi> with qbx they also lied to me that their was a problem with their compiler handling com ports.  found out 10 years later there was a patch that fixed the bug when i called them
<zmoylan-pi> not THAT annoyed me
<daftykins> i'm impressed you remembered after 10 years!
<zmoylan-pi> i will revenge!! :-D
<zmoylan-pi> so i use every opportunity to encourage people NOT to buy/use ms even if i have to provide free support to do so
<daftykins> i'm dealing with an amusing one where a client is playing 'find the license key' at the moment
<zmoylan-pi> i love how they put them on bottom of laptops were they wear off when you go looking...
<daftykins> actually they have been in the EFI for years now
<zmoylan-pi> qr7 something something something... :-)
<daftykins> but mmm, those older gen ones being visible to others is crazy
<zmoylan-pi> and the O/0 B/8 been identical in the font used...
<daftykins> this is for Office though, no problems with Windows these days ;)
<daftykins> in fact 10 installs are so quick i'm not making as much money!
<zmoylan-pi> played with my first w10 system last week.  trying to decouple the user account from the email.  the user wants to enter his password when email is launched.  w10 really doesn't want to do that
<daftykins> that sounds like it'd require that user to be using the built in rubbish
<daftykins> and also sounds like the user account is a 'microsoft account' not a local one, most are getting tricked into that
<zmoylan-pi> man w10 is slow.  on 8.1 this lenovo was really quite fast but since the upgrade it crawls
<diddledan> you should try vista
<daftykins> 10 is faster than both 8.x and 7, so it needs a clean run
<daftykins> upgrades never work, you worked in IT you should know that :D
<zmoylan-pi> it happened when he upgrade from w7 laptop to win8 and i decoupled it.  you can set up local account but then you have to migrate all the data from old account to the new one
<daftykins> yip
<daftykins> i wonder if a move of %appdata% cheats it :D probably not
<zmoylan-pi> w10 kinda allows it but the new apps seem designed for dummies who always want to be logged in
<daftykins> *nod* if you log into a single app you have to be careful not to hit the 'convert to MS account' and go for 'sign into this app only'
<zmoylan-pi> first time i had this migration silliness it wouldn't even allow me to copy files from one account to another as the ownership cocked up.  in end i copied files to ipod classic which stripped the rights of file :-)
<daftykins> you Loonix folk sure do get into funny fights in Windows land
<daftykins> certainly never get permissions woes in Loonix land
 * daftykins whistles
<zmoylan-pi> which is why any time i go near a windows computer there's a hammer nearby... :-)
<daftykins> so good upgrading my uncles machines to SSDs and 8GB RAM from 4GB, it's making a huge difference
<daftykins> factory installs on slow mechanical disks, blech
 * zmoylan-pi banishes daftykins to install win95 from floppies for punishment....
<daftykins> hey i did some early office from 25 floppies many a time
<daftykins> one had to have the eject button held in ever so slightly to be read
<zmoylan-pi> i did that twice.  and thus learned to make cd roms work _everywhere_ so i never had to do it again
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> seem to recall, with my lesser experience of the time, that 98 was the first to do direct CD boot?
<zmoylan-pi> in some cases using dos peer to peer networks to share a parallel cd drive to a laptop that had a lpt port that wouldn't work
#ubuntu-uk 2016-03-16
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning
<brobostigon> morning moo
<brobostigon> <tab>
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning diplo
<diplo> Mornin' brobostigon :)
<MooDoo> morning
<brobostigon> :)
<davmor2> Morning all
<zmoylan-pi> sylvia anderson dies... so long lady penelope... http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-35818530
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Wednesday, and happy Freedom of Information Day! ð
<MooDoo> :)
<zmoylan-pi> i'd tell you more about it but you haven't signed the nda...
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> Stop ... Pebble Time
<popey> heh
<popey> arrived?
<bigcalm> popey: yus
<bigcalm> Quite like it
<bigcalm> The strap is much nicer than I expected it to be
<popey> I replaced the rubbery watch strap with a 12 quid one I bought at a combined shoe repair / key maker / watch repair shop
<popey> nice leather one.
<popey> the rubbery one tended to make me a bit sweaty on the wrist and I got some marks on my wrist after a few days of wearing it.
<bigcalm> I might invest in a leather one at some point
<bigcalm> Ah
<popey> I just stumbled up to the bloke in sainsburys and said "hey, can you put a replacement strap on this?"
<popey> "Sure, pick one"
<popey> 5 mins later, walked away done.
<bigcalm> Ah, Timpsons
<popey> yes!
<popey> that special leather and iron filings smell
<bigcalm> It's certainly more noticeable on my wrist than the Garmin Vivosmart I was using
<bigcalm> My guess is that it'll become less noticeable over time
<diplo> I really must buy one of these!
<awilkins> Timpsons are great
<zmoylan-pi> if god had wanted us to wear rubber straps we'd all have been born german... :-P
<bigcalm> The interface reminds me of the 1st phone I had with a colour screen.
<awilkins> Went in for a new watch battery
<awilkins> Bloke opens my watch, tests the battery, announces that it's fine, puts it back in and doesn't charge me a cent - it was just jostled loose.
<awilkins> If you're out of work and need a clean suit for an interview, they'll dry clean it for free.
<zmoylan-pi> that's a little worrying, wouldn't have thought there was enough space for it to be jostled loose...
<awilkins> zmoylan-pi, I was surprised by the size of it - it's one of the big CR ones, it occupies most of the back of the watch
<awilkins> Timex Explorer ; really nice, understated, functional watch
<davmor2> JamesTait: considering Edward Snowden and Julian Assange I think this is appropriate https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exScXXcZ7V8
<popey> bigcalm: yeah, i barely notice it now
<popey> the previous watch I had was a Casio F91-W (which Sam now wears and loves) - the watch face I have is called 91 dub, and looks like this https://github.com/orviwan/91-Dub-v2.0 :)
<popey> I have it blue like the casio
 * zmoylan-pi adds popey to the suspicious list... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casio_F-91W#Claimed_use_in_terrorism
<bigcalm> That is cool :)
<bigcalm> I have a couple of F91-W knocking around the house
<bigcalm> It was a great watch
<zmoylan-pi> 10,000 jihadis can't be wrong... :-P
<popey> zmoylan-pi: that is precisely why I bought it :)
<popey> I have 3 of them :)
<popey> well, 2 now sam has one :)
<bigcalm> Just added the v3 watch face
<bigcalm> It really is the best one
<popey> there's a v3?
 * popey looks
<popey> ooh, new pebble version
<brobostigon> 3.10.1?
<popey> oh, I'm already using 91 dub v3.0
<popey> brobostigon: yeah, that's what mine is running now
<brobostigon> :)
<gebbione> last 14.04 kernel update has broken my install, i had to set grub to start ubuntu with nomodeset instead of quiet splash
<gebbione> and now my monitors are not detected
<gebbione> it sees only one
<gebbione> is there a way to undo the last updates? it was a kernel update but when i tried to boot with the older kernel didnt make a difference, it still gave me a black screen
<popey> I think i need this http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B006537B2Q
<zmoylan-pi> a new version should have ski free yeti on the back... :-)
<gebbione> has anyone had monitors/ati radeon problems since the last kernel install on 14.04#
<gebbione> ?
<davmor2> popey: nice
<turboman_12> #bs
<daftykins> no thanks!
#ubuntu-uk 2016-03-17
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning
<diplo> Morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Thursday, and happy Saint Patrickâs Day! ð
<JamesTait> AKA "Pretend You're Irish Day", eh MooDoo? â
<zmoylan-pi> ...or if you're irish avoid dublin like the plague as it'll be tourists and debauchery...
<JamesTait> zmoylan-pi, I'd always assumed that was the general case, tbh.
<zmoylan-pi> true but paddies day is x10
<popey> Potato!
<zmoylan-pi> is that a recognised code word from a proscribed organisation?
<popey> To be sure.
<davmor2> JamesTait: got you covered https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15qc3_joy5A
<JamesTait> Top o' the mornin' to you too, davmor2
<zmoylan-pi> there was a poll for songs that make you feel most irish... http://www.rte.ie/radio1/ray/  #1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5PT65I2ny8
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi, JamesTait: this is more synonymous with Saint Patricks day nowadays though https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTjC6rxHz8g
<JamesTait> zmoylan-pi, I'd have to agree âº
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: you mean it was Danny Boy
<davmor2> wasn't even
<zmoylan-pi> danny boy is more for americans who want to get in touch with irish roots.
<davmor2> but that is how you spot the Irish in a pub, They have one too many and all burst into Danny Boy
<zmoylan-pi> the only version i like is the one i heard once of the drunken version with the verse.  'and just when you think it can't get any worse' 'turns out the drunk bugger knows every verse' :-)
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: hahaha
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: reminds me of the beer song from the bard
<awilkins> Anyone laid hands on the new Lenovo T460s  ?
<awilkins> I've kinda decided against the X1 Carbon because I hear it overheats when you ask it to, y'know, do stuff.
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzYof5GjhQ8
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<czajkowski> Or
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: Just carry a portable fridge. Problem solved!
<TwistedLucidity> It's St Paddys, and I'll be off to the pub! Huzzah! For a talk on Bitcoin. Huzzah?
<popey> bigcalm: hows the pebble?
<bigcalm> popey: mostly comfortable. I'm going to go to Timpsons at lunch time and see about a different strap
<bigcalm> popey: I do like the rubbery strap, but it is rather sweat inducing
<bigcalm> I've managed to scruff the bezel a little. Thankfully it's not the glass
<popey> I think that's inevitable really
<popey> I know some people have bought stickers to cover the bezel
<popey> mine's not too badly scuffed as it happens. Which is surprising given how scuffed my phones are
<popey> I don't drop my watch often though :)
<bigcalm> :D
<zmoylan-pi> i have a tendency to stop doors swinging or lift doors with my watch
<awilkins> You'd think they'd put a brushed steel bezel on or something
<foobarry> anyone use a privacy screen on their laptop?
<foobarry> or monitor
<awilkins> I've seen them used but I've never considered getting one myself
<foobarry> getting sent a free one \o/
<foobarry> but dunno if they will just annoy me because i need more brighhtness
<foobarry> but you can whip it off the screen easily
<davmor2> I was magic, but not a lot, rip Paul
<davmor2> s/I/It
<foobarry> fail
<awilkins> I always enjoyed his show as a kid
<zmoylan-pi> heads i win, tails you lose...
<awilkins> Shame the focus on Saturday night TV is on being a free talent scout for Simon Cowell now
<awilkins> What's the current recommendation for a $1 a month US based VPS? All I need is ~ 128MB or possibly less
<MooDoo> didn't know you could get them that cheap
<zmoylan-pi> i think that's just what awilkins is prepared to pay :-)
<zmoylan-pi> should just post an american friend or relative a pre configured rasp pi... :-)
<popey> I spent some time playing with my Pi 3 in a PiCade last night. It's super for playing old arcade games
<zmoylan-pi> even the original pi could play _old_ arcade games :-)
<popey> heh
<popey> true
<zmoylan-pi> the pi3 just makes it so games not so old are now playable
<popey> I also got a wireless keyboard for it so I could play some spectrum games :)
<zmoylan-pi> well even a bt keyboard has more processing power than the speccy :-)
<popey> hah
<zmoylan-pi> and of course a better keyboard... :-P
<davmor2> My favourite Paul Daniels Moment https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io-Bby3iWVs
<Seeker`> I really hope that's brass eye
 * Seeker` is disappointed
<gebbione_> #ubuntu
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: What is it with celebs not making it through 70? We're starting to get told we can't retire until we're over 75...I worried about working myself to death!
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: only the good die young you'll live forever ;)
<diddledan> 2016 has been excellent so far at killing off our heroes
<TwistedLucidity> \o/
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: I'm off out tonight and I intend to be rather evil towards a few pints....
<davmor2> diddledan: to be honest the last 12 months have been
<diddledan> those that aren't dead or dying are being arrested for naughty sexual deviance
<davmor2> maybe that is the cause it was the sex drugs and rock and roll
<TwistedLucidity> Strangely, it's the clean-cut ones who are getting arrested. The actual hard-rocking deviant seem to be...err...normal
<diplo> Hey guys, not sure how many of you work with lots of customers but wondering what others do... each of customers have different setups from us doing support for PC's/network/software to external companies to themselves. Wanting a way to store that information and was wondering if anyone uses any specific software to do that ?
<diplo> If not I'll probably try adding to Case management software but it's quite a task :)
<TwistedLucidity> diplo: We do and it's a sodding PITA
<TwistedLucidity> There's no easy answer to be honest, especially as customers upgrade stuff, don't tell use and then whinge when things break. Which we, of course, can't replicate on what we /think/ is their system.
<diplo> More to the point for us is I don't do a lot of support but have been doing more recently, the 2 guys that do it no all this stuff off the top of their heads
<diplo> I just wanted a way of storing information per site on who their support contracts are with etc
<diplo> Guess I'll write something myself :)
<TwistedLucidity> We have a variety of tools in the products which yank versions relevant to them. That, some text fields and a large amount of swearing from me seems to work.
<diddledan> I've never used a CRM but I wonder if maybe one of those would help?
<diplo> Maybe, going to install some stuff in a VM and play I guess
<diplo> Anyway home time! \o/
<diplo> thanks guys
<foobarry> diplo: redmine
<foobarry> i thought u used it before?
<foobarry> also redminecrm.com have good plugins for CRM addons
#ubuntu-uk 2016-03-18
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> col the americans is back
<daftykins> o0
<mapps> cool show
<mapps> you not seen it i guess?
<daftykins> nah i'm not really watching anything current, still
<daftykins> how be tricks, mapps ?
<mapps> good ta, off work all week:D
<mapps> lost my phone though, which sucks....as it taes ages to get a new phone sent here
<mapps> and a new sim
<daftykins> :( no fancy tracking functions turned on?
<diddledan> tricks aren't allowed now that Paul Daniels is gone
<daftykins> i was sad when i heard that this morning on Radio 2
<mapps> sucks losing phone
<mapps> wish i hadnt even gone out
<daftykins> mapps: so no tracking?
<mapps> nop
<mapps> '/
<daftykins> :<
<MooDoo> morning all
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<diplo> Morning all
<diplo> foobarry: Redmine, I've tinkered but not put it/used it properly yet. Not seen any functionality that does what I was asking though, going to investigate now
<selinuxium> Moring all
<selinuxium> Morning all..
<zmoylan-pi> mooring all to those on boats...
<selinuxium> true story... :)
<foobarry> diplo: redmine CRM has tags for users
<diplo> From what I can see it's not really designed for my use case though
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> Morning all you funky friday people
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: me owld mucka ow bin ya?
<MooDoo> davmor2: still full of cold, but glad it's friday :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: glad it friday, isn't that just a natural state of being though?
<MooDoo> davmor2: not really, just feel very lethargic and drained this week
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Friday, and happy World Sleep Day! ð´  ð¤
<davmor2> JamesTait: can only be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD-E-LDc384
<JamesTait> Oh, go on then.
<MooDoo> :)
<MooDoo> I'll raise you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uT3SBzmDxGk
<MooDoo> and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfGggAGITwg
<MooDoo> and finally https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVH1Y15omgE
<davmor2> MooDoo: you're really not getting this are you, we're going for songs that have something to do with the day thunder is not helpful for sleeping :P
<davmor2> MooDoo: did you see the full concert?
<JamesTait> MooDoo, no idea what it has to do with sleep, but I'll give you credit just because it's good. âº
<JamesTait> Thought they might be able to afford new bows, though.
<davmor2> JamesTait: they have carbon fibre ones now :)
<JamesTait> Too right.  Cheap bows are the instruments of the devil. ð
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: hello slacker, how's life?
<bigcalm> Yes, I use Slack for work. But IRC will always be king
<davmor2> bigcalm: see I knew you were slacking off
<bigcalm> All well?
<bigcalm> Is 16.04 ready yet?
<bigcalm> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3> No, it's not out yet!
<bigcalm> Boo
<davmor2> bigcalm: You know you're in driving distance right!
<bigcalm> Bwuhaha
<bigcalm> davmor2: did you know that mr evil lives in Newport as well now?
<davmor2> bigcalm: oh he moved again did he
<bigcalm> Again?
<davmor2> Twice in Wolves then out to wheaton aston and now to newport
<bigcalm> Ah
<bigcalm> Maybe he's settled
<davmor2> No I think he is addicted to moving :)
<Laney> inflation busting 3.7% council tax rise!
<zmoylan-pi> stick it to the peasents!!
<diddledan> damned pheasents
<diddledan> sire the peasents are revolting. give them a bath
<diddledan> smth like that anyway
<diddledan> I forget the proper quote
<zmoylan-pi> i was out for a walk in very posh area of dublin yesterday.  high hill with huge mansions + castles on it.  at bottom of the hill were very expensive but much smaller mansions...
<zmoylan-pi> i was thinking that 100 years ago the small houses were for those that cook for the lords.  now it's for the accountants who cook the books of the wealthy
<diddledan> aha, found it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sztf4hcGrB4
<zmoylan-pi> great movie...
<diddledan> nom.com: youtube for food (by the origial inventors of youtube) don't you think you've immediately failed when you get referred to as "like foo but for bar"
<zmoylan-pi> star trek was wagon train to the stars...
<davmor2> diddledan: Sir the peasants are revolting, you said it, they stink on ice...
<diddledan> davmor2 the video above ^^^
<davmor2> diddledan: I'm playing catch up I hadn't got that far :)
<knightwise> goodddddddd
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> knightwise?
<knightwise> Sorry
<knightwise> had lag
<knightwise> keyboard buffer
<knightwise> search for Star trek Horizons on youtube
<knightwise> VERY good
<diddledan> I always say buffer, buffering, and buffered with a G instead of F
<diddledan> that way I complain that "the video is buggered"
<diddledan> :-p
<knightwise> pretty good fanfic btw
<diddledan> oh hang on, I found a great fanfic the other day, lemme fish-out the link
<diddledan> http://boingboing.net/2015/03/17/an-erotic-novel-about-clippy.html
<knightwise> Oh smeet mother of god
<knightwise> now my eyes are bleeding
<diddledan> ooh, apple are doing a thing on monday
 * diddledan fires-up the streamer
<knightwise> a thingy ?
<diddledan> http://gizmodo.com/what-to-expect-at-apple-s-march-21-event-1764069031
<zmoylan-pi> a revolutionary _small_ iphone!!
<diddledan> the many things they've changed is nothing
<diddledan> which will be a let-down after last-years "the only thing we've changed is everything"
<zmoylan-pi> or a phone that commits seppuku if it sees an fbi badge...
<knightwise> apple keynotes are so non-events lately
<knightwise> its becoming embarrasing
<diddledan> apparently MS have something exciting to be announced in a fortnight: http://www.techradar.com/us/news/software/operating-systems/windows-10-to-get-ground-breaking-features-that-will-change-everything--1317152
<knightwise> smells like linkbat :p
<knightwise> bait
<zmoylan-pi> a choice to have f.b.i. approved privacy?
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, is that like a TSA-approved penknife?
<zmoylan-pi> you can get those i think. victoronix make them
<zmoylan-pi> about as sharp as a footballer at the end of their career
<diddledan> to be fair, footballers aren't sharp even in they hayday
<diddledan> their*
<andrewebdev> Looking for bash ninja to help me with this one liner: pip show <packagename> | grep "Location: "
<andrewebdev> The output is the line where location is with the path
<andrewebdev> What I want is to _only output the path_
<andrewebdev> so that I can then cat that path into a file
<diddledan> pip show <package> | grep "Location:" | awk '{print $2}'
<andrewebdev> :D
<diddledan> you can also do it with `cut -d' ' -f2`
<andrewebdev> diddledan, that's awesome thx diddledan! works like a charm
<diddledan> but cut requires that the space be exactly one space and not a tab or multiple space chars
<andrewebdev> ah k. Well the awk works well and is a lot cleaner looking
<diddledan> awk is far more powerful than that but that's about the only thing I know how to do with it :-p
<andrewebdev> hehe, as is most things in terminals :)
<diddledan> I really should look into learning some proper awk
<andrewebdev> diddledan, this is what I ended up with. I'm sure many people will get a heart attack ^_^ ... but I don't visit bash often.
<andrewebdev> echo "source: \""$(pip show powerline-status | grep "Location: " | awk '{print $2}')"\"" >> .tmux.conf
<andrewebdev> it may have been better to just create a shell script and pass variables around
<diddledan> ian dunc has quit: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35848687
<Azelphur> can anyone recommend a nice speaker system suitable for front room movie/tv/music use? Â£170ish budget
<Azelphur> I want optical support so I can take the audio output outta my TV and plug it straight into the speakers
<mappps> hmm
<daftykins> if you want to do it properly it's AV receiver time
<directhex> av receiver alone blows the budget
<directhex> with no speakers
<directhex> Azelphur: stereo or 5.1? soundbar or separates?
<Azelphur> directhex: ideally 5.1, separates
<Azelphur> I already have a fairly ok soundbar, was hoping to upgrade
<directhex> http://www.richersounds.com/product/speaker-packages/pioneer/htp072/pion-htp072
<daftykins> ah i didn't read that part
 * daftykins likes doing things right once rather than badly several times
<diddledan> I like to do things wrong over and over and over again. I think doing something right is foolhardy
<diddledan> it's for this reason that my desk is overflowing with junk
<diddledan> tidying it would fall into the foolhardy camp
#ubuntu-uk 2016-03-19
<mappps> schitts creek is really funny:D
<diddledan> wow, this page is seriously out-of-date: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FindingFiles
<daftykins> most are ;)
<diddledan> the links in the graphical section either 404 or report information for 6.06
<mappps> must br more uptodate docs?
<mappps> how do people manage with cermaic floors
<mappps> mine are always dirty
<diplo> Brush and mop them, that's what I do.... I have 2 young boys and all their friends too :)
<diplo> Joys of being a home owner
<mappps> i brush but bits get stuck, so i mop and endup with dust bits everywhere
<mappps> and its only me living here!
<diplo> Vacuum after you brush as well, well that's what I do, get the bits the brush misses, I say I mop but I actually use a cloth and work my way from front to back and get bits with the cloth ( I don't do this very often ! )
<mappps> No vacuum rented place..i thought maybe i should buy one
<diplo> If it's all ceramic, get one of those Dyson type things, great bits of kit, packs down small
<mappps> handheld one?
<diplo> yeah, couple of friends have got them and love them
<diplo> I believe certain models aren't quite as good though.
<diplo> Right bed time, gn
<mappps> night
<mappps> daftykins,  diddledan  what you lot all upto,
<daftykins> x-files 10x05 here
<mappps> ah]
<mappps> seen;D
<mappps> you should imdb schitts creek honestly its so fun]
<mappps> what you think of x files so far
<mappps> i was dissapointed tbh
<daftykins> yeah, it's all a pile of crap so far
<daftykins> i think they phoned the wrong Chris Carter
<mappps> lol
<mappps> i cant imagine il watch any of 10x again
<mappps> gah i dont know where to get a foot rest here, a foot rest makes the tv watching experience better;p
<mappps> and i need a desk and chair ;/
<daftykins> cor that place has doubled your age!
<mappps> hahahaha no but seriously dont you use a footrest with your sofa
<mappps> for watching tv
<mappps> and a desk and chair would just help....im using laptop leaning on the bed- it sucks
<daftykins> just a laptop? daym
<mappps> well 2 and a tablet
<mappps> but no desktop
<mappps> you use a desktop? I was considerin getting a dell i7 desktop 23" monitor
<daftykins> i'm in my lounge with the eps playing off the file server upstairs, via an amazon FireTV onto my TV
<daftykins> kodi sideloaded onto the android running FireTV, neat little toys
<mappps> hmm firetv good? i use a sumvision cyclone
<mappps> but what are you usi ng for irc atm - and whats your main machine
<daftykins> i'm on my new Dell XPS 13 laptop SSH'd to a Linux VM running on the fileserver upstairs
<daftykins> in fairness it is an L shaped sofa XD
<mappps> heh
<mappps> how could i run a squid proxy and make all clients on the network use it wihout any config
<mappps> not poss on a normal router supplied by isps?
<mappps> cant install dd-wrt on this, with that its prob possible
<diddledan> you need to redirect all port 80 requests to the squid instance
<daftykins> i used to run squid as a transparent proxy on smoothwall, back in the day
<daftykins> that ran on a standard PC with two NICs
<daftykins> what's the actual desired end goal here though? sounds like a bit of an xy problem
<daftykins> !xy
<lubotu3> The XY problem is when you need to do X, and you think you can use Y to do X, so you ask about how to do Y, when what you really should do is state what your X problem is. There may be a Z solution that is even better than Y, but nobody can suggest it if X is never mentioned.
<diddledan> I ran snotwall with dialup and a single NIC
<daftykins> crikey
<mappps> to just cache stuff and filter
<mappps> using lists and blocking access to malware/spyware and anything else on the list by default
<diddledan> but you live on your own
<diddledan> o_O
<daftykins> ^
 * diddledan scratchy head
<daftykins> bit overkill an idea
<mappps> ya i know
<mappps> but still caching could be handy
<mappps> somehow some sites load so slow?
<mappps> yet im on 100mbit now and if i run a speedtest all is fine
<daftykins> sounds like bad DNS
<daftykins> well there's talk those tests can be faked easy by ISPs if they're running the server
<diddledan> some sites load awfully slow due to the amount of third-party junk they pile in
<mappps> ah
<mappps> yea
<mappps> google ads etc kinda scripts
<mappps> included i take it
<diddledan> that third-party usually tells everything not to cache
<daftykins> mappps: are you using the standard DNS servers the ISP connection provides?
<daftykins> time for custom and uBlock origin imo :)
<mappps> ya i am
<mappps> maybe i should try open dns?
<daftykins> that or google DNS
<diddledan> I use teh googlies
<diddledan> google knows everything about me anyway so I might as well give them a bit more :-p
<mappps> il try that
<mappps> good idea
<daftykins> 208.67.220.220 and 208.67.222.222 for opendns, or 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 for the goog
<diddledan> google's is 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4
<diddledan> daftykins, how dare you beat me!
 * diddledan beats daftykins
<mappps> =]
 * daftykins does a little jig
<diddledan> I *thwack* refuse *thwack* to *thwack* lose *thwack*
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> hey stop hitting mapps!
<mappps> hmm
<mappps> will the burger stand be open
<diddledan> good plan
<mappps> not sure, might close 2am...petrol stations cloe 4am-6am but its 20min walk;/
<mappps> id rather a burger than a sandwich ;]
<daftykins> so glad a place near me has the microwave chicken, cheese and pesto paninis back
<mappps> hahaha never had that
<mappps> had those rustlers burgers...not great, but tbh id eat 2 when hungry
<daftykins> the co-ops over here used to stock this Latvian chocolate bar that was amazing, but it's gone now
<daftykins> in fact i've been finding it hard to get hold of scampi of late
<mappps> scampi ? fish?
<mappps> not had that in years
<daftykins> yeah proper breaded scampo, mmm
<daftykins> bit of lemon on perhaps
<mappps> ;]
<mappps> i like gambus pil pil;D
<daftykins> eh?
<mappps> its a food item
<mappps> usually as a starter
<mappps> google it, youll know it, maybe a diff name
<mappps> its EVERYWHERE in gib
<mappps> ;]
<mappps> getting tired :D
<daftykins> same, time to scoot
<mappps> cya
<mappps> finished e5? was it 6 eps for s10?
<daftykins> i was through the nitro of the final ep yeah, but decided i couldn't handle that much disappointment in one night
<daftykins> started to look like another silly one
<mappps> heh
<mappps> yea
<mappps> which was the one with the man that wasnt a man
<mappps> where they find him in that portaloo
<mappps> didnt care for that ep
<daftykins> #3 i think
<daftykins> nah, it had a rather exposed Scully and that's about all you can say for that one
<mappps> think they shouldnt have bought it back
<daftykins> have you seen any of Californication ? Duchovny in that seems to be a bit like how he has acted season 10
<daftykins> he's called Hank Moody in that so i've taken to considering him to be Special Agent Fox Moody in X-Files s10
<mappps> ya i have
<mappps> and i did like it at first tbh, first 1/2 seasons
<mappps> but again, i think that dragged on - how much you seen
<daftykins> i got through a bit of s2 i think
<daftykins> long enough for him and the lass to part ways again
<mappps> ya
<daftykins> not a whole lot of substance to that series after you ignore the nudes :P
<mappps> true
<mappps> lol
<mappps> watch any other series
<daftykins> i still haven't finished off The Expanse, the newer Syfy channel sci-fi
<daftykins> behind on everything really, i've only been interested in my work of late and the "rise of the tomb raider" game
<mappps> ah yea expanse i havet seen
<mappps> or colony..also meant to be good
<HaloSponge> Morning .. just listening to LBC & the fact IDS has resigned. Accessibilty is important !
<HaloSponge> Had a fry up this g/morning.
<MooDoo> morning all
<HaloSponge> Morning MooDoo .. are tyhe birds tweeting where you are ?
 * HaloSponge looks at birds in the field , eating worms.
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<HaloSponge> morning .. off to racketball.
<mappps> hi
<m0nkey_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cnv2ZhUqVRs  :-)
<mappps> hi
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<daftykins> \o
<mappps> ;]
<MonsterKiller> Hey. So, I installed python3.5 on Ubuntu from 'ppa:fkrull/deadsnakes' (I already had 3.4 installed). However, 'pip -V' still shows python 3.4. I've tried 'pip install --upgrade pip' but still showing 3.4. Any ideas how to get it to use 3.5?
<MonsterKiller> (I need it for a virtual env. I created one with 'pyvenv-3.5' but pip is installing to lib/python3.4 not lib/python3.5)
<daftykins> update-alternatives ; or check if it installe "python35" as a binary
<daftykins> dpkg -L <package_name_from_that_PPA> might help
<daftykins> (it'll list the contents of that package)
<daftykins> highly unwise using a PPA though
<MonsterKiller> daftykins, what am I looking for? It installed /usr/lib/python3.5?
<daftykins> you're looking for its' binary.
<daftykins> "file /usr/lib/python3.5" says...?
<MonsterKiller> directory
<daftykins> ok so check that directory / the command output for what it put in there
<MonsterKiller> I can't access it as a directory but dpkg shows and entry for '/usr/lib/python3.5/lib-dynload'
<daftykins> can you just put the dpkg -L output into http://paste.ubuntu.com ? it'd be a lot easier
<daftykins> i think we're at cross purposes slightly
<MonsterKiller> http://paste.ubuntu.com/15430123/ :)
<daftykins> hrmm
<daftykins> MonsterKiller: "ls -al /usr/bin/py*" ?
<MonsterKiller> http://paste.ubuntu.com/15430167/
<daftykins> MonsterKiller: "/usr/bin/python3.5 -v"
<daftykins> so i'm pretty sure you'd pick your chosen default via update-alternatives, but you might want to be careful there as i learnt the other day messing with python can brick an install
<MonsterKiller> Python 3.5.1
<MonsterKiller> oh damn
<daftykins> yeah so that's your correct binary for the version you want, but right now /usr/bin/python3 refers to python3.4 as you can see in that paste, as it's symlinked to it
<MonsterKiller> Ah
<MonsterKiller> hmm
<MonsterKiller> Seems a big risk to take then :/
<MonsterKiller> Only need this for 1 project I'll be using a virtual environment for
<daftykins> is this on a physical install or a VM?
<MonsterKiller> physical
<daftykins> yeah, here be dragons
<daftykins> you might want to run it by the main #ubuntu channel, far more experienced folks than i with python - say i sent you ;)
<MonsterKiller> Thanks for the help btw daftykins :)
<MonsterKiller> I could try vagrant or something
<daftykins> np!
#ubuntu-uk 2016-03-20
<mappps> anyone like nba? warriors spurs now;]
<mappps> ugh
<mappps> raining here
<mappps> :(
<mappps> recommend some comedies to me someone
<MSponge> Gud day ! .. I have just been handed a AMD laptop and ben told to test it .. it works but I'm booting from a 12.04 Ubuntu DVD. What next ?
<MSponge> *been
<MSponge> just starting up Software center .
<MSponge> can I get empathy working on 12.04 for Internet Chat just off the DVD ?
<MSponge> look like I can't.
<MSponge> *looks
<MSponge> no-one up yet, then.
<MSponge> Bonjourno.
<MSponge> oly, Olah .
<MSponge> Mornin' awilkins
<awilkins> Mornin'
<MSponge> Anything news worthy yet ?
<foobarry> another factory reset that doesn't reinstall apps.
<foobarry> its never worked for me ever :(
<MSponge> I wonder how you add a PPA (private) after you do a default install /
<MSponge> ^         ?
<MSponge> I mean, how do you set it up on launchpad ?
<foobarry> MSponge: what do you want to do?
<popey> there is a page in launchpad where you can see all your private ppa subscriptions
<popey> https://launchpad.net/~popey/+archivesubscriptions (for me)
<popey> click "view" on the right and it will show you the relavent lines for sources.list
<MSponge> right-oh. I just wanted to install all the prog.s at once after install. N00b question really.
<MSponge> Morning popey.
<MSponge> Did anyone see that Jono's got a gnew podcast for github going.
<foobarry> sudo apt-add-repository
<MSponge> Don't like the name of it , but hey I can't complain.
<foobarry> there's a command to add a repo to your machine
<MSponge> yes i know that easy enough.
<MSponge> I just wanted to install 50 apps at once in my own single PPA.
<MSponge> i think popey answered it well.
<popey> yeah, i dont think there's an easy way to do what you want, sorry
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MSponge> Owh, are we going to get some story-time, brobostigon ?
<brobostigon> huh?
<MSponge> Morning boys and girls is what you say when you read nursery rhyms, No /
<MSponge> *sans / ?
<brobostigon> ok,
<MSponge> The was a young girl from Ballahatchet ...
<MSponge> Oh that doesn't end well :)
 * MSponge wanders off.
<brobostigon> :)
<MSponge> Whats everyone think of the Fat/Sugar tax in the UK ?
<zmoylan-pi> there'll be wandering bands of fatties mugging people leaving supermarkets for snickers and mars bars...
<MSponge> I'd fight over a toblerone aswell.
 * zmoylan-pi has a few black toblerone in press that were on special...
<MooDoo> howdy all
<MooDoo> :)
<MooDoo> everyone ok ?
<penguin42> Yeh ok
<MooDoo> :)
 * penguin42 wonders what city name starts with 'mapp'
<diddledan> morning
<diddledan> I'm just watching eddy snow's keynote for the libreplanet conference (recording) and the thought occurred that governments don't need to backdoor the OS itself necessarily but could embed their snooping stuffs into drivers that we willingly load into kernel space - e.g. nvidia or fglrx. people don't normally consider those as being risky at all
<penguin42> people may not, I certainly do
<MSponge> Any chance of a link ?
<diddledan> MSponge: https://media.libreplanet.org/u/libreplanet/m/libreplanet-2016-the-last-lighthouse/
<MSponge> cheers, matey.
<MSponge> The last lighthouse .. Alot of L's there .. Lets hope he's not *lost* the plot, again.
<MSponge> popey, ping (if not busy - it's le weekend afterall).
<MSponge> popey, Wats the possibility of getting the Fossil Q Display Watches to interface with Ubuntu, ya think ?
<MSponge> there Androids clobber.
<popey> no idea, never heard of them
 * popey googles
<zmoylan-pi> never heard of fossil... didn't they make the palm os watch yonks back>
<popey> if they have an API, more likely than if they don't
<popey> we have support for pebble because they have a decent API
<popey> and one of their employees hangs out in our telegram group and provides (unofficial, but huge amounts of) help
<MSponge> fair enough .. just Mumzie got clobbered at the airport by a sales person & she asked if it could be used on Ubuntu (?). And they were abit flumixed by the question.
<zmoylan-pi> kudos for them not straight out lying...
<MSponge> Nice bit this one I found ... https://media.libreplanet.org/u/libreplanet/m/free-software-song-a4de/
<MSponge> goes on abit , but good effort all'round.
<diddledan> my mum doesn't know one end of a computer from the other. she stays far far away from anything computerised. so she's unlikely to be asking "does it work with ubuntu" any time soon :-p
<MSponge> Mum keeps asking me have I written a linux version of her 5000Euro's blackboards software for her Open University teaching courses.
<diddledan> let me guess, you suggested such a thing in jest and now she expects you to build it? :-p
<MSponge> I keep telling her, We need to get a decent camera for the kickstarter, and she just says ..
 * diddledan expects the lumberjack song next
<zmoylan-pi> writing code looks so easy on those nice american csi shows...
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, you can get two people coding simultaneaously on the same keyboard, dun'tchaknow
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8qgehH3kEQ
<MSponge> Oowh, I'm gonna be on the internet, that'll be Rimmel special edition lipstick then. Then changes her mind Elizabeth Arden lipstick  for the video.
<MSponge> I think she using Max Factor (or at least she won't shut up about it) so she says.
<MSponge> I think she gives it too much promise about becoming famous for 15 minutes or something.
 * MSponge think she should stick to her bridge club, and make me some Pie and custard (possibly Elmlea as a chilled alternative).
<MSponge> **thinks
<MSponge> Off to bed. Have a look at this website if ya bored 25,000 yoyos for an Apartment (in english also) , www.funda.nl
<maco> Myrtti: am i remembering right that you're in london?
<daftykins> now there's a nick i haven't seen in a while, 'lo maco
<maco> daftykins: hello :) i popped in because i'm planning a visit across the pond in august
<daftykins> ah har, neat. you're west coast iirc?
<maco> no, east. washington, dc area
<daftykins> ah, remembered washington but the wrong one
<maco> got married a bit over a year ago, and we're finally going to have our honeymoon
<daftykins> and you chose wintery England? bold :)
<maco> (turns out popey and some other folks here were in dc the weekend of my wedding, but i didn't find out until pendulum mentioned it at the reception!)
<penguin42> daftykins: In August it might hit 10c!
<maco> i've visited in august twice before, i know it's warmer'n that! was about 30 even
<daftykins> oops :>
<maco> (actually earlier today i was having to explain celcius to the husband. he was doing laundry and it said wash at 30c and he didn't know if that was cold, warm, or hot)
<daftykins> ah yes, foreignheit causes us to come a cropper plenty too
<Myrtti> maco: north of Cambridge actually
<Myrtti> (but London is an hour train ride away, we did that yesterday just for some Finnish food
<popey> o/ maco
<maco> Myrtti: so... if i was to go to Kentwell, would you want to join in?
<maco> Myrtti: Long Melford looks not too far from Cambridge
<Myrtti> August might be a bit tight, but possibly
<maco> popey: hiya
<maco> Is there anywhere y'all'd say we should go, given we're into medieval/tudor history, archery, and (in my case) textiles? Kentwell, the Mary Rose, and the V&A are on the list, but locals will know better'n me what neat things there are to see & do
<maco> (and, of course, folks I know from UDSes, it'd be nice to see you again)
<popey> Winchester.
<popey> http://www3.hants.gov.uk/greathall
<popey> apparently Winchester (our olde capital city) is the best place to live in the UK :) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-35855783
<daftykins> ooh the cathedral looks fancy
<zmoylan-pi> well when you spend a chunk of a century building them... :-)
<popey> maco: seen http://www.nerdydaytrips.com/ ?
<maco> popey: no!
<maco> popey: thank you!
<penguin42> popey: Nice!
<popey> maco: also http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/visit/places/1066-battle-of-hastings-abbey-and-battlefield/
<daftykins> ooh there's one on the island here :P
<popey> it's crowd sourced data
<popey> so people can add new stuff
<zmoylan-pi> last time i looked at it a lot of junk had been added to it... but still a very good source..
<daftykins> ah i never went anywhere during my Uni time really, should have done far more with the time
<zmoylan-pi> well you were supposed to be busy in uni... getting drunk and so on... :-)
<daftykins> nah, didn't much go in for that, as i went later ;)
<maco> when a friend visited Ireland, she visited both the Donegal Tweed Centre and the corrolary for Harris Tweed. Given the history of English woollens and Scottish mills as well, anything similarly interesting?
<maco> also the search on that nerdy day trips site seems to not filter anything at all >_>
<popey> hehe, just found photos of my old arcade cabinet on the london hackspace wiki https://wiki.london.hackspace.org.uk/view/Equipment/The_Beast
<zmoylan-pi> one of my dm's has a gauntlet cabinet that he can't bear to part with even if it takes up a tonne of room
<popey> is it a 4 player one?
<popey> I can imagine it does, even the two player versions
<popey> I use a picade now instead of using my jamma games themselves.
<zmoylan-pi> 4 player version...
<popey> blimey
<zmoylan-pi> but you know... a real gauntlet game :-)
<popey> https://twitter.com/popey/status/710575624105103362
<zmoylan-pi> what we want is a fold up control panel for gauntlet and plug it into any large screen to save space... :-)
<diddledan> we want this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0e8ZMVqVCc
<diddledan> (yes I know it was a beta version of Wipeout for the PSX)
<zmoylan-pi> around 2000 i installed a zx spectrum emulator on my brothers pc.  he had to delete it a few months later as his kids abandoned their xbox and playstation to play bombjack and jetpac... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> it was the only way he could get his pc back to do invoices...
<daftykins> diddledan: it... it was?
<daftykins> sure looks the part, but the weird ball thing, heh
#ubuntu-uk 2017-03-13
<diplo> Morning all
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> happy Monday!
<diplo> I'll take your word for it :)
<daftykins> :D
<SuperMatt> morning
<davmor2> Morning all
<daftykins> \o
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<daftykins> heya o/
<brobostigon> hi daftykins
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Monday, and happy Napping Day! ð´ ð¤
<zmoylan-pi> nap the monday away...
<diddledan> allo allo
<Laney> what a good idezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZzzzzZZzzzZZzzZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
<diddledan> nap. that sounds like a good plan
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=papuvlVeZg8
 * zmoylan-pi spots a bit of carpet getting a sunbeam at the moment and practices what i learned from the cat masters of naps...
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: no the beam of light is a death ray honest
<diddledan> crazy stupid server, anyone? https://system76.com/servers/starling
<TwistedLucidity> A shame they don't have a European/UK operation.
<daftykins> ARM 0o
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: do they need too it can be shipped
<diddledan> import duty
<TwistedLucidity> Warranty
<TwistedLucidity> Keyboard, power sockets etc
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/5kehylr4pn0dcmw/VID_20170313_101325.mp4?dl=0
<daftykins> "CTU, dafty...?"
<daftykins> it just had to be done...
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> I don't understand what that video is
<daftykins> well i just got the phone from ebay in the post this morning - and i've put the 24 (TV series) common ringtone on it! ;)
<daftykins> i.e. super sad but what are you gonna do...
<diddledan> aha
<daftykins> having to balance it on a small box though as it didn't come with a stand :(
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: Thanks, I wasn't the only one then.
<diddledan> speaking of 24, there's a new jack-bower-less version running now
<TwistedLucidity> Enthusiam underflow, please insert biscuits.
<daftykins> yeah, i've not seen but know it's going on - "24: Legacy" or something
<diddledan> buffer underrun was the bane of CD writing
<daftykins> "it doesn't matter who we are" </Bane>
<daftykins> yeah cor, rewind a good number of years and a client of mine was backing up to DVD-Rs on a *USB* optical drive his old IT guy put in lazily, had to have every single program closed to write the disc and it'd still create coasters
<daftykins> didn't take me long to retire that task...
 * zmoylan-pi remembers installing tape drives back in days of dos when you'd find a customer using ms dos backup to backup their data onto 20+ floppies every week
<popey> :)
<popey> Me too.
<zmoylan-pi> even using pkzip to write to span floppies would have cut that down to 6-7 in most cases
<SuperMatt> And then you'd find one of the floppies was corrupted and you'd have to cry forever
<popey> heh, pkzip...
<popey> I used to carry round a floppy disk called "Tools" which had all the famous archive tools. pkarc, pkzip, arj, lharc, all the greats ! :)
<zmoylan-pi> mine was labelled utils... :-)
<Cueball> I had a tools Floppy disk too :-)
<zmoylan-pi> which was then a sub directory on a cd-rom called util-cd... :-D
<popey> I separated utils and tools using some weird criteria
<popey> I think I eventually split them into utils, tools, and compress for compression tools
<zmoylan-pi> and i kept some of the tools on my psion so that in case of wonky floppy drive i could copy them on via serial...
<popey> One day I moved from floppy to Iomega 100MB zip drives, and put it all on one blue plastic disk, happy days
<popey> hah, brilliant
<SuperMatt> 100 whole megabites! Those were the days :)
<zmoylan-pi> ah zip disks... i came to zip disks late as we used ls-120 floppies first till they stopped making them
<popey> oooh, never saw a ls-120
<zmoylan-pi> fully backwards compatible with normal floppy disks
<popey> my first job had giant bernouli disks (and a Data general 'mainframe' with big winchester disks)
<popey> that got decommissioned soon after I arrived, but I did have to learn the bootstrap process of flipping switches
 * zmoylan-pi remembers oohing and ahhhing over the disk pak change on the school vax...
<popey> don't think I ever touched a vax either
<popey> only the terminals
<Cueball> My boot floppy back then had some nice menus that were generated using config.sys and autoexec.bat.
<popey> oooh, menus
<popey> get you! :)
<Cueball> Started off simple then grew to fit extra needs.
<Cueball> As for tape drives i never actually used them in DOS days. Never had one until i moved to Linux.
<zmoylan-pi> we had a bunch of accounting software and point of sales software for video shops that stayed in dos as no one liked the windows alternatives
<daftykins> :>
<Cueball> My first PC was an IBM PS/2 286 CPU and 3mb memory. 1mb on board and a 2mb riser card which went into the MCA slot.
<Cueball> Similar to this one....
 * zmoylan-pi winces at mention of mca and casts ward evil
<Cueball> http://john.ccac.rwth-aachen.de:8000/alf/ps2_60041/
<foobarry> when you have to wear headphones because the guy wearing headphones is whistling and stamping his feet :|
<daftykins> ooh-err
 * zmoylan-pi hands foobarry laser to shine at plonker every time they do it...
<foobarry> debating whether to buy a touchstone charger for my ancient touhcpad tablet
<foobarry> knowing it will be useless once the tablet dies
<popey> do you still use that tablet?
<daftykins> ah i've got one of those knocking around still, untouched
<foobarry> popey: yes
<foobarry> nougat has a deep sleep mode
<foobarry> lasts well
<zmoylan-pi> touchstone... untouched... is it in your irony box? :-)
<foobarry> use it on the train to read free magazines from my library via zinio
<foobarry> sync up teh magz once a month and turn off wifi etc
<foobarry> also have a hudl2 for home use (mainly watching videos on the lovely screen)
<diddledan> I do wish Ubuntu Security Announcements to the ML would tell me what a package is/does when they announce a patch. I'd like to see at a glance whether it's likely to be something I have installed or otherwise care about patching immediately. Like the latest one Pillow - wtf is that?!
<diddledan> maybe they should state whether something is installed by default, too
<diddledan> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/tdPWx9WC/
<diddledan> I guess they got the name wrong then
<diddledan> I do see now that I look harder that there is a three word description of the package on the announcement "Python Imaging Library"
<diddledan> so do I have that installed?
<diddledan> am I using it?
<popey> that may be the source package
<popey> which builds some other binary package / library
<popey> python-pil - Python Imaging Library (Pillow fork)
<diddledan> I think it'ld be nice to state whether something is default installation or not tho so that we can determine likelihood of it being installed without having to go hunting
<diddledan> seems I do have python3-pil installed
<diddledan> no idea why
<diddledan> I miss the days when we knew what was installed and why
<popey> aptitiude why <packagename>
<popey> variety needs it here, the wallpaper changer
<diddledan> The program 'aptitude' is currently not installed. You can install it by typing: sudo apt install aptitude :-p
<diddledan> maybe I should go back to Gentoo :-p
 * diddledan throws his toys from the pram
<diddledan> I think I must be turning into a grouch :-o
 * diddledan waits for the comment "turning?"
<diddledan> at least the other two I know what they are - libevent and libicu
<diddledan> changing subjects completely: UEFI - I wonder how long it'll be before there's a Linux.efi build which runs the kernel directly on the firmware without the grub intermediary
<diddledan> already done according to wiki: EFI Boot Stub makes it possible to boot a Linux kernel image without the use of a conventional UEFI boot loader. By masquerading itself as a PE/COFF image and appearing to the firmware as a UEFI application, an x86 kernel image with EFI Boot Stub enabled can be directly loaded and executed by a UEFI firmware. Such kernel
<diddledan> images can still be loaded and run by BIOS-based boot loaders; thus, EFI Boot Stub allows a single kernel image to work in any boot environment.[5]
<diddledan> cite: https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/efi-stub.txt
<diddledan> wat. systemd-boot (formally gummiboot).. since when did systemd borg a bootloader?!
<davmor2> diddledan: indeed see Jon Masters response to it on google+
<diddledan> davmor2: the borging?
<davmor2> diddledan: yeap he is not happy
<davmor2> diddledan: https://plus.google.com/+JonMasters/posts/7vHeQ3k35iK
<diddledan> yeah, I just found it at the same time you linked
<diddledan> oh dear :-p
#ubuntu-uk 2017-03-14
<diddledan> http://pbs.twimg.com/media/C6zBvimWgAEhlvj.jpg
 * zmoylan-pi continues to play 80s games were the graphics were too crude to indicate gender of players...
<diddledan> https://pics.me.me/when-i-was-your-age-this-was-a-dragon-and-13758381.png
<zmoylan-pi> well in rogue a D was a dragon :-)
<zmoylan-pi> it was a simpler time :-)
<diddledan> I used to play this: http://playdosgamesonline.com/air-traffic-controller.html
<zmoylan-pi> it's amazing how lost you can get when playing games like that
<diddledan> yey, I just landed a plane
<diddledan> microsoft's racks in their datacentres: https://channel9.msdn.com/Series/Microsoft-Global-Datacenters/Microsoft-Project-Olympus
<diddledan> don't you love russian boats? https://twitter.com/AeroDork/status/841473611521236992
<zmoylan-pi> i can't wait to see the new caspian sea monster
<daftykins> let's play IRC snake! i'll start
<daftykins> -       *
<daftykins> ;)
<zmoylan-pi>  -      *
<daftykins> ooh i see what you did there
<daftykins> this is the supermarket by me, what situation do you think this ever helps in? https://www.channelislands.coop/food-stores/guernsey/locale-royal-terrace/shop-collect/
<zmoylan-pi> someone who realises that they have more shopping to do and can have the supermarket hold their bags till they come back instead of dragging a weeks shopping in bags with them?
<zmoylan-pi> someone who got a lift there and can have the supermarket hold their stuff till their lift comes to pick them up?
<zmoylan-pi> i suspect if they're offering it then they've been asked for it a lot
<diddledan>       -*
<diddledan> damn
<diddledan> oh wait, was that an apple or a mushroom?!
<diddledan>       --
<diddledan> it was an apple! \o/
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: ja it's kinda weird though, it's like a delivery service that's waiting for the invention of the wheel
<diddledan> daftykins: I got guernsey butter this week :-)
<daftykins> diddledan: zomg multiplayer mode! heh me and an old gf both had the nokia 8210 which could do that over infrared actually
<diddledan> waitrose!
<daftykins> diddledan: yay! proper gold/silver wrapper?
<diddledan> yup
<daftykins> vewy gewd
<diddledan> tis tastysickle
<daftykins> that stuff spread on a good bit o' Guernsey Gache, ooh yes
<zmoylan-pi> a few months ago a weird gizmo to help people put a sock on appeared on reddit... they couldn't understand why anyone would buy/use such a thing... because they're young healthy people who don't have knackered joints yet
<diddledan> lol @ knackered joints
<diddledan> I'm not there _yet_
<zmoylan-pi> but you will if you live long enough
<diddledan> I'm surprised I haven't had any RSI yet
<zmoylan-pi> i started to have rsi in 80s but i just changed how i positioned keyboards and am very careful how i place them
<zmoylan-pi> when you consider how ancient typewriters were in use for decades pre keyboards and there was no reported rsi
<daftykins> hrmm you'd almost expect more mechanically induced fatigue
<zmoylan-pi> i was actually given the sock gizmo at my hospital when i got a hip replacement as well as having to attent a class with 10 other people on how to use it
<diddledan> group humiliation ftw!
<zmoylan-pi> i /think/ because of the different height of the rows of ancient keyboards it changed the hands position enough to prevent rsi
<zmoylan-pi> all over 70 and for some it was their 3-4 day of trying to use it whereas as some just over 40 i got through it in <hour
<daftykins> https://teganhowardfood.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/dsc_0112.jpg
<daftykins> diddledan: ^ mmm
<diddledan> that looks tasty
<daftykins> oooooh yes
 * zmoylan-pi makes note to get soda bread later...
<zmoylan-pi> oh wait... today is pi day... sortof
<daftykins> not sure i've had the pleasure
<daftykins> does that mean you have to give your Pi the night off?
<zmoylan-pi> well only if you allow the american date system to exist;
<daftykins> 14th month!? eh :D
<zmoylan-pi> it's 2017. 03.14
<daftykins> oh of course
<zmoylan-pi> i always use yyyymmdd, it drives some people nuts but they have to ask if it's american format
<zmoylan-pi> *they *never* have
<daftykins> *       _|
<diddledan> *      __
<zmoylan-pi> a few months back i got ms dos snake running on a new version of basic... ran a smidge too fast even at slowest setting on modern hardware :-)
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> spotted a lot more ancient nokias for sale recently... they seem to have been moved from bottom and back shelves to front and centre... maybe it's snakes time to be most played game again :-)
<daftykins> hehe
<zmoylan-pi> i'll swear prices of them have gone up https://twitter.com/angryearthling/status/841519881539448832/photo/1
<daftykins> =]
<zmoylan-pi> birds have now started their dawn chorous outside
<SuperMatt> morning
<diplo> Morning all
<foobarry> moved our chan to sl@ck and we lost half a day with people fannying around with it
<SuperMatt> slack is good though
<davmor2> Morning all
<diplo> I still haven't looked/used Slack at all
<diplo> Is this a good thing ? :)
<davmor2> diplo: yes not using slack is a good thing ;)
<diplo> Good good
<SuperMatt> slack's pretty darn good. It really does help intra-team communications
<davmor2> SuperMatt: rocketchat
<diplo> SuperMatt: I can't get my company to try anything new unless I implement it, it has taken me 2 years+ of bugging to use Ansible, now they see it is good they are coming up with more work/ideas :)
<davmor2> diplo: sudo snap install rocketchat done ;)
<diplo> Again... they'd need to use it...
<davmor2> diplo: :)
<diplo> I set up an internal messaging app as per request from my boss
<davmor2> diplo: your boss uses it to tell you things are broken right?
<diplo> using xmpp, had me and my colleague on it, sent an email to head office with instructions and how he wanted to proceed, never heard back :)
<diplo> Nope! He just doesn't follow through with anything
<diplo> They will suffer soon though, as 85% of my dev happens on a PC I brought in from home. It's going home Friday :P
<davmor2> diplo: hahahaha
<foobarry> i do need to rewrite my bot in python though :\
<davmor2> diplo: is this sorry I needed my pc back at home so now I have nothing to work on in an attempt for them to buy you a new machine
<diplo> Yes davmor2 - I've been asking nicely for months now..
<davmor2> diplo: don't forget to over spec it
<diplo> I have a dozen times
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diplo> I basically spin up VM's left right and centre testing setups/ansible deployments/backup testing etc. I ask for areplacement drive and they don't do that either, so I bring one from home
<diplo> Just got to the point that of fook em
<diplo> :P
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Tuesday, and happy International Ask a Question Day! ð â
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzA-V0YN3QA
<MooDoo> howdy all
<davmor2> Morning MooDoo
<diplo> He's ALIVE!
<davmor2> diplo: no MooDoo is a bot
<diplo> Ah...
<diplo> :P
<davmor2> diplo: seriously try !MooDoo how am ya mucka?
<MooDoo> davmor2: MooDoo is fine
<davmor2> diplo: obviously it is a slow bot
<MooDoo> I have two speeds, slow and stop
<davmor2> MooDoo: hahahaha
<davmor2> MooDoo: and one of those is broken right ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: yup....
<diplo> I'm equally as slow :)
<MooDoo> :)
<davmor2> I'm lightning fast in comparison \o/
<MooDoo> that's what she says badoom tish!
<davmor2> MooDoo: but you missus said she wouldn't say anything badoom tish!
<MooDoo> davmor2: don't worry mate, your secret is safe with me
<davmor2> MooDoo: on a more serious note how are they all are your kids still massive?
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah jimmy is having growth spurts at the moment, he's up to my chest and daughter has just gone up 2 shoe sizes in about 3 months lol
<davmor2> MooDoo: that is crazy, am I right in thinking jimmy isn't in his teens yet he's like 10-11 isn't he?
<MooDoo> davmor2: jimmy is 8
<davmor2> wow even younger than I thought
<davmor2> MooDoo: I'd got in my head he was 9 last year so thought he was 10 this year man that is madness :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: he's 9 in sept
<diplo> One of our customers brother in law is tech savvy apparently, well I just scanned their fixed IP. EVERY port is open on the router, apart from the 2 we need :P
<diplo> I told them about this Thursday last week
<MooDoo> diplo: yay
<diplo> I just don't know how to deap with these people
<MooDoo> diplo: I had to go to see someone yesterday "press ok to restart outlook" What do I do next?
<zmoylan-pi> of course after they open those 2 ports and they're hacked it will be your fault :-P
<diplo> I can't understand why people won't let us just manage it for them, even my colleagues may not screw up that bad
<diplo> Of course zmoylan-pi
<diplo> I've tried to get my boss to update t&c's about if they have control of stuff
<diplo> MooDoo: They are even worse, couldn't remote in with something like teamviewer ?
<MooDoo> diplo: yeah I could, but it's only a 5 second walk to their desk to press a button and make them feel stupid
<diplo> Ah right, internal people are even worse!
<diplo> Anyone going to fosstalks in june ?
<MooDoo> looks good - http://www.fosstalk.com/
<diplo> yeah, debating going to my first one.. always falls when I have kids on any of these talks
<MooDoo> diplo: same here, and another part of the country lol
<diplo> Well that's what you get for living up there, I'll be up next week or the week after, tis a long drive though :(
<MooDoo> yup
<Azelphur> Just ordered a R7 1700, new board and RAM, along with a new CPU block :)
<Azelphur> apparently the 1700 clock for clock is the same as the 1800x, and there's no binning going on.
<diddledan> Azelphur: you gone AMD?
<Azelphur> yep, team red \o/
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> blue!
<MooDoo> someone has to I suppose
<Azelphur> blue keep on doing lame things
<diddledan> I like my intel ethernet cards
<diddledan> I350
<diddledan> they're purdy
<Azelphur> yea, they make good ethernet cards
<diddledan> I'm miffed that my atom is gonna die at some point
<Azelphur> but they keep on locking down features on the CPU that I want to use, and AMD is better bang for buck right now
<diddledan> (I got an AsrockRack C2750D4I which is affected by the low-pin-count bug)
<Azelphur> specially once I clock it up to 4+ghz :)
<diddledan> I like that the Ryzens are all 8core/16threads *drool*
<Azelphur> me too
<diddledan> although drooling in the PC case while you're assembling the thing is probably a bad idea
<Azelphur> true
<davmor2> Azelphur: let us know how it performs
<Azelphur> will do, although I'm running arch now, I hear it has some issues on the older kernel Ubuntu uses
<davmor2> Azelphur: how old is an old kernel I'm on 4.10.0.11.13
<Azelphur> ah, I think 4.10 is good
<Azelphur> 4.11 is even better
<davmor2> Azelphur: and that will likely be on xenial in a few months after release of zesty and the trunk just continues :D
<davmor2> diddledan: regarding systemd-boot it only works on UEFI systems so people with bioses ummm well that would need to fallback to grub2 right, so there would need to be two bootloaders installed and running by default and just hope they don't ever clash right :D
<diddledan> Azelphur: now don't you love those version numbers where they just tack-on another .xx to the end instead of incrementing one of the numbers already there?!
<MartijnVdS> 1.2.3.4.5.6.7?
<diddledan> exactly!
<MartijnVdS> we've been stripping parts at work
<MartijnVdS> we're almost at Chrome versioning
#ubuntu-uk 2017-03-15
<daftykins> m0nkey_: you should sample this one for us - http://www.kraftcanada.com/recipes/great-canadian-heinz-ketchup-cake-193998
<m0nkey_> Already did
<m0nkey_> It's actually pretty good
<m0nkey_> Ugh, we all thought winter was over. Now we're in a middle of a snow storm
<daftykins> o rly
<m0nkey_> https://www.theweathernetwork.com/ca/weather/quebec/montreal
<m0nkey_> My back yard was void of snow. Now I have 30cm.
<daftykins> :>
<m0nkey_> https://1drv.ms/i/s!AtwcTj6o_0Q-g6IeVuY7knnuwPCoEw
<m0nkey_> Just took that photo
<daftykins> needs a measuring stick :D
<m0nkey_> That's about a good 30cm snow
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<SuperMatt> hoobledoop whoop everybody!
<daftykins> weirdest bulb i ever bought https://www.dropbox.com/s/q2t6hnd1nhipkxl/IMG_20170315_082156.jpg?dl=0
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> good morning mr brobostigon, good morning eeEEEVVVEErrybody
<zmoylan-pi> mornin' mammals
<brobostigon> orning SuperMatt and zmoylan-pi
<davmor2> Morning all, I forgot you all I'm so sorry got caught up in this horrible work thing ;)
<daftykins> davmor2: how dare you!
 * zmoylan-pi puts on cd of annoying cubicle noises next to davmor2...noisy tea slurping, spoon clinking off cup, humming, tapping pencil, cutting nails while waiting for order for extra squeaky chair and desk fan to arrive :-P
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Wednesday, and happy Absolutely Incredible Kid Day! ð
 * zmoylan-pi gives all kids near JamesTait big bottle of full sugar coke, a big box of smarties and a puppy
<JamesTait> And that's just breakfast.
<zmoylan-pi> at 3am...
<JamesTait> On Sunday.
<zmoylan-pi> with youtube/nickleodeon on at volume 11
<JamesTait> I think you missed a '1'.
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CC5ca6Hsb2Q
<davmor2> JamesTait: I think that covers it right dream version of children :D
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: your attempt at annoyance is a fail it just makes me think I have friends :P
<davmor2> daftykins: I did say sorry I don't normally forget to say morning to everyone :)
<davmor2> daftykins: and I noticed at least :)
 * zmoylan-pi turns off cubicle noises and puts on k-tels 100 most annoying ear worm songs album... :-P
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: wow my favourites \o/
 * davmor2 sings along to blobby, mister blobby...
<m0nkey_> I hope all you guys are having a wonderful spring so far. We've just had over 30cm snow dumped on us. Now I've got to go find the car.
<zmoylan-pi> i was able to remove the top fleece blanket on bed so it is now officially spring for me... :-)
<daftykins> crikey!
<zmoylan-pi> but paddies day on friday so it might be a trap...
<m0nkey_> I hate you all.
<zmoylan-pi> always a little sleet and snow on paddies day... to freeze the scouts in shorts marching
<davmor2> 26th is spring
<zmoylan-pi> ireland is 1st of march... we expect less of our springs :-)
<zmoylan-pi> as long as the water falling is only making us wet and not trying to strafe us with hypothermia...
<bigcalm> o/
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> well so far, dealing with Three seems to be streets ahead of O2...
<zmoylan-pi> didn't 3 take over o2?
<daftykins> i've read of some takeovers but i don't think that one fits
<SuperMatt> afaik, o2 hasn't been taken over by anyone
<daftykins> i think BT bought Three, Telefonica still owns O2
<daftykins> Orange and T-Mobile became EE, that's about it?
<davmor2> bigcalm: how do
<davmor2> daftykins: no bt bought ee
<daftykins> oh right
<davmor2> three is hutchinson which was orange, o2 was bt but they sold it then realised there is no need for a land line any more and had better get back into mobile and bought ee and so the merry go round continues
<zmoylan-pi> i knew i wasn't imagining it... https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jan/23/mobile-network-three-to-buy-o2
<daftykins> my my
<daftykins> well if that happens, the UK regulators are as bad as the US ones :>
<davmor2> daftykins: why ee was allowed to happen that was the 2 biggest merging
<daftykins> *shrug*
<daftykins> got our own telcos down here :)
<daftykins> ah there's another example of the Channel Islands being confused, B&Q website won't accept local postcodes "we don't deliver here" yet calling into store the items can be ordered in
<daftykins> bloke was very careful not to answer me as to whether the price included or excluded VAT though...
<zmoylan-pi> it really confuses head offices of firms who mostly operate on the mainland when they've got a location in a spot with just slightly different tax laws. they never remember to check their memos and directives are applicable
<daftykins> even huge places just refuse to avoid the 'hassle'
<daftykins> Adobe online subscriptions "pay up or give us a VAT number" (we don't have them, not how it works at all)
<daftykins> Google: Block content and pages from our IPs
<daftykins> Microsoft (store): flat out refusal
<daftykins> :)
<zmoylan-pi> is that a bad thing? :-P
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> oh same with Lenovo too
<zmoylan-pi> well google blocks ireland from some stuff too.  someone was recently complaining that they couldn't get a google pixel in ireland as he wasn't in uk. he was most annoyed as he was sitting in google hq in dublin at the time...
<diplo> We have an internal web application that our customers use, it's currently http only and I want to recitfy that as Customers are getting "Connection is not secure" from FF / Chrome which is quite right.
<diplo> What I don't understand is the best way to approach this, get a proper cert from a company and then create a a record of software.domain.tld and apply to the web app or just use Self Signed
<diplo> I take it that is how I'd have to create an external SSL cert to get it to work correctly ? by creating a sub domain and then buy a cert for that
<foobarry> use a legit cert with subject alternate name fields
<diplo> Or using something like letsencrypt and automate it
<foobarry> letsencrypt requires external access
<diplo> You can get around that
<diplo> officially
<diplo> Running it manually
<diplo> I'll google subject alternate name fields, really new to SSL
<foobarry> it means the cert will be accepted as valid if your server is called barry-01 and barry.com
<diplo> ah ok ta
<foobarry> pretty pleased with the dashcam footage
<ibrahim> jdasda
<popey> foobarry: taken today, on a nice sunny day?
<diddledan> ooh, that's a claws at dawn acquisition: gitLAB have bought gitter.im (which is primarily focused at being a chat for gitHUB)
<diddledan> ref: http://blog.gitter.im/2017/03/15/gitter-gitlab-acquisition/
<popey> wow
<popey> *boggle*
<popey> gitlab have mattermost i thought
<ali1234> what is gitter?
<ali1234> is it just another slack/discord clone?
<ali1234> does it have git integration?
<popey> it does
<m0nkey_> http://yul.buzz/news-and-opinions/2017/03/15/10-of-the-most-fcked-up-photos-of-the-snow-storm-in-montreal/
#ubuntu-uk 2017-03-16
<diddledan> further to the gitlab purchase of gitter.im - they're gonna opensauce it: http://venturebeat.com/2017/03/15/gitlab-acquires-software-chat-startup-gitter-will-open-source-the-code/
<MooDoo> morning all, in fact very early morning
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, poing
<diplo> Morning all
<daftykins> \o
<foobarry> popey: yes, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTRd18GR5k0 choose HD quality
<foobarry> of my missis nabbing a parking space back
<diplo> foobarry: Wifey can reverse well :)
<foobarry> ometimes she phones me from the car to reverse into small gaps when she's tired
<diplo> Well that was better than a lot of people I know
<foobarry> i can reverse park brilliantly but cannot reverse straight
<foobarry> down a narrow road. i always over correct
<diplo> hah, I actually learnt to drive reversing, so it is second nature to me
<diplo> Started a job at 15, never driven a car before and I was told to reverse the vans out of the building
<TwistedLucidity> Reversing is easy. Just use the trick I learnt using the rear gun in "Elite" and turn the steering wheel upside down.
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: why do that just reverse
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: It was meant to be read like a Viz "Top-tip"; not taken literally.
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: oh okay I didn't see the start of the conversation which obviously doesn't help :D
<TwistedLucidity> LOL
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Thursday, and happy Freedom of Information Day! ð
<zmoylan-pi> we can't talk about that here
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<BigRedS1> Gooood Morning!
<brobostigon> :)
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StlMdNcvCJo
<davmor2> JamesTait: I think that is valid right it seems to be where we get most of our information nowadays :D
<JamesTait> davmor2, something like that. âº
<TwistedLucidity> I only believe news that carries the "Trump Approved" sticker.
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: so you see no news, cause all the legitimate News agencies are banned from his meetings
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: They're all fake news, which is why they were banned. You know it's real news if Trump allows it. /s
<TwistedLucidity> Must admit, I nearly sprayed my morning coffee across this morning when lauging after I heard his rant about the travel ban being banned. Again.
<TwistedLucidity> "..across the room this morning.."
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: I know it's like he is surprised that breaking the law isn't allowed
<zmoylan-pi> the list of places that have banned the bbc is a list you want to be on north korea, vietnam.... the white house...
<TwistedLucidity>  HE IS THE LAW!
<TwistedLucidity> Wait, is that it? Did he read to much "Judge Dredd" as a wee bairn?
<zmoylan-pi> he was 40+ when dredd came out
<TwistedLucidity> zmoylan-pi: That's physical age, what about mental?
<zmoylan-pi> -4
<zmoylan-pi> but dredd was probably too liberal for him...
<TwistedLucidity> Dredd is a fascist, but I don't think he has any personal agenda.
<zmoylan-pi> dredd is a fascist but he tries to do the /right/ thing
<TwistedLucidity> He applies the law. If the law is right, he does the right thing.
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: he is not judge dredd
<TwistedLucidity> Has he let perps off with law breaking? (Been a while since I read Dredd)
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: More Walter?
<zmoylan-pi> he's given pardons i seem to remember
<zmoylan-pi> i haven't read it since 1989 or so
<TwistedLucidity> Got some old 2000ad annuals downstairs (the benefits of having a g/f who is also a geek)
<TwistedLucidity> No, I take that back. She's a nerd.
<TwistedLucidity> I'm the geek.
<zmoylan-pi> she's never bitten the head off a chicken? :-)
<TwistedLucidity> Not a second time, no
<popey> foobarry: nice
<zmoylan-pi> i was given 12gb of 2000ad comics yonks back... still haven't found a reader i like to read them on
<zmoylan-pi> it really calls for a 20" screen to get the full centre spread appreciation but it's not comfy on a desktop or laptop screen
<TwistedLucidity> I'd love to get an eReader, but I want a colour screen.
<TwistedLucidity> Deadtree is simply better at some things.
<zmoylan-pi> it is
<zmoylan-pi> an ipad or android tablet of those dimensions would be silly expensive
<popey> how about one of those dell all in one things with a battery :)
<popey> 18" tablet
<zmoylan-pi> e-ink doesn't do colour and even when it gets there it probably won't be vibrant enough for reproducing comics
<popey> e-ink does do colour
 * popey points to his pebble watch
<zmoylan-pi> aren't they dead now since been bought? :-(
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: http://www.eink.com/press_releases/e_ink_announces_advanced_color_epaper_05-24-2016.html
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: looks vivid enough to me :P
<zmoylan-pi> looks a little washed out to me but it is getting better all the time
<popey> well, pebble are, but the fact the tech exists was more the point
<popey> yeah, it's a bit washed out
<zmoylan-pi> probably for the best... i'd end up getting one and try to read 2000ad on it :-)
<foobarry> how do i enter fontawesome special characters with alt+ number?
<foobarry> into libreoffice for example
<foobarry> i have number U+ F0C0
<foobarry> ah got it
<foobarry> ctrl-shift-u<number> return
<zmoylan-pi> that sounds like it needs 3 hands...
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: no you only need to type ctrl+shift+u then you type in the number after letting go :)
<davmor2> ð
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emoticons_(Unicode_block)
<davmor2> enjoy
<zmoylan-pi> i'll stick with irc emoticons and be happy i tellz you... ::waves cane at whippersnappers::
<m0nkey_> ð©
<zmoylan-pi> which is just a little box with numbers on my pi... ::pats pi for shielding me from nasty unicode::
<TwistedLucidity> I have the poop icon in my fonts? \o/ Life complete.
<zmoylan-pi> so... you're the fan the poop hits? :-)
<TwistedLucidity> Emoji are not Emoticons are not Kaomoji
#ubuntu-uk 2017-03-17
<diplo> Morning all
<SuperMatt> morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> Morning all
<daftykins> morn \o
<brobostigon> morning
<daftykins> Landscape has really grown up i find, using the 5 free registrations with servers i manage - very neat
<daftykins> just hope it doesn't max load the CPU sometime like it did once in the past :D shame there's not an android app :D
<popey> heh, yeah. i used to have it pegging the cpu here too
<daftykins> all resolved, or did you stop using it?
<popey> yeah, i found myself not actually using it
<popey> i have auto-update set on everywhere, so it didnt seem worth it
<daftykins> ah
<popey> it was super useful when my mum changed isp and her IP address changed though
<popey> was able to poke at her machine via landscape where I was no longer able to get in due to her router changing
<daftykins> mmm pesky dynamic IP
<popey> worse, dynamic hardware :)
<daftykins> :D
<popey> "here mrs popey, have this router" "ok". me: "AAAARGH!"
<JamesTait> Top o' the morning to you all! Happy Friday, and happy St Patrick's Day! ð â
<daftykins> i'm still dealing with this task of trying to work out whether we can get a dumb 'ONT' for fibre services down in Spain for a clients place, even with the help of a Spanish lass i couldn't get much out of Movistar's phone lines
<popey> Potato
<daftykins> looks like you *might* be able to put their fancy full featured all-in-one into bridge mode, but then you'd have to sit and configure VLAN IDs and i'm not sure if it needs much more o0
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15qc3_joy5A
<JamesTait> Not Guinness, popey?
<popey> not at 09:45
<popey> not.. today anyway
<daftykins> tsk tsk!
<daftykins> popey: i was of the same opinion, although even SSHing into 5 for reboots now is getting a bit tiresome :>
<daftykins> much as i love some package management
<daftykins> +manual
<foobarry> he Chaitin Security Research Lab team also successfully demonstrated a kernel privilege escalation on Ubuntu Desktop that earned them $15,000.
<foobarry> http://www.pcworld.com/article/3181289/security/adobe-reader-edge-safari-and-ubuntu-fall-during-first-day-at-pwn2own.html
<diddledan> have aliens landed? four military helicopters just flew over in a tight formation!
<diddledan> heading south west
 * diddledan checks the news
<lopta> diddledan: They're responding to reports of an unaccompanied wurzlefonium
<davmor2> diddledan: practising for the trump invasion erm I mean visit
<diddledan> BBC has no news of Aliens. I think there must be a coverup
<diddledan> speaking of aliens - watch "arrival" it's fantastic!
<lopta> If I'm *really* lucky I get to watch Barnwood Builders and a gardening program.
<lopta> ...and quite a bit of Curious George and Puffin Rock.
<davmor2> and that is just your viewing while you wait for the kids to turn up right?
 * lopta grins
 * lopta starts to think about lunch.
<foobarry> if i use a bouncer, how can i get the bouncer to leave a channel?
<foobarry> /wc doesn't quit the channel
<diddledan> /wc?
<foobarry> bouncer keeps my accoutn conencted
<foobarry> ah /leave works
<diddledan> there's more than one "bouncer" so stating "the bouncer" doesn't help us help you
<davmor2> Why do I always think of these two when people say bouncer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CiGUMQZUgU
<diddledan> lol
<m0nkey_> lol.. I totally forgot about Hale and Pace
<zmoylan-pi> the kitten in the microwave...
<davmor2> m0nkey_: next you'll be saying you forgot the fast show too
<m0nkey_> I remember the Fast Show
<m0nkey_> never cared for it though.
<zmoylan-pi> i have the fast show on dvd... tis wonderful... this week i will be mostly eating...
<m0nkey_> I'm now watching Billy & Johnny clips
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: I'll get me coat
<davmor2> m0nkey_: 1...2...drip on my shoe.....3.....4......not anymore
<zmoylan-pi> and don't forget trigger happy tv
<zmoylan-pi> red fox to grey squirrel, red fox to grey squirrel...
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<diddledan> we've got clerence, clarence, over. roger, roger, what's your vector, victor?
<zmoylan-pi> ah... the classics...
<zmoylan-pi> i'll never get over machu pichu...
<foobarry> already caught a crash on my dashcam :|
<foobarry> haven't even had it a week
<zmoylan-pi> hopefully nobody hurt...
<foobarry> it was a bus. empty one
<foobarry> somebody drove into the side and drove off
<foobarry> it was dark and rainy so no reg plate
<zmoylan-pi> send the video to bus company, they might be able to identify car from that alone
#ubuntu-uk 2017-03-18
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan> morning
<diddledan> oh, Amazon, you know me so well. I'm glad you promoted "Up to 30% off yankee candles" and "Girl's Princess Party set" to me
<diddledan> in the same email you include "Tap reseat kit" and "10W Rechargeable LED spotlight"
<diddledan> a real mixed bag
<diddledan> oh, and "Silver Stud Earrings for Women"
<diddledan> is it just me, or is the similarity between witch and b*tch too similar to be a coincidence?
<diddledan> so "the lion and the b*itch in the wardrobe" for example would still make perfect sense as a title, no?
<daftykins> diddledan: i thought they were grouped together with said wardrobe, they weren't in it :D
<daftykins> if they were in it, i doubt the witch would have survived... no matter how much of a _ she were...
<zmoylan-pi> as long as they're not a lich... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lich
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<zmoylan-pi> chuck berry dead...
<zmoylan-pi> roll over beethoven... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOrMg3pY7hw
#ubuntu-uk 2017-03-19
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<penguin42> that's odd, my zesty machine is moaning that 12.04 LTS is near and my Precise machines need upgrading
<tamj0rd2> Would anyone be able to tell me how I can auto-login to xchat-gnome?
<Azelphur> Well I just had a fun adventure, gf found a set of keys with a USB stick attached to them on a bench (clearly fallen out of someones pocket), took them home, plugged the USB stick in, dead. Fixed the USB stick, found the owners CV on there, went to his house, returned the keys \o/
<penguin42> haha
<MartijnVdS> https://ac3freedomday.org/
<daftykins> Azelphur: :D
<daftykins> i'd hope for a finders fee for going that far :>
<Azelphur> Haha I don't mind, I'd be worried if I lost my keys, especially if they had a USB stick with my address attached. Thought the guy could be locked out or something.
<themanwho> has anyone seen pavel
<themanwho> lets play a game
<daftykins> ...
<themanwho> join the dots
<themanwho> can you guess this place ... ...... ...... .. .......
<daftykins> are you in Southampton?
<themanwho> why
<themanwho> why do you ask
<daftykins> i like to play 'guess the location' from virgin media hostnames
<themanwho> really why
<popey> me too :)
<daftykins> :D
<themanwho> ?
<daftykins> i don't have an answer for you.
<themanwho> ok did you guess the word
<daftykins> aww yeah just scored a 40" 1080p TV for my folks for Â£65 on a local trade site
<themanwho> ok i'll give you a clue it is the name of a place across the ocean
<themanwho> count the dots and guess
<themanwho> .h. u...e. .t.t.. .f ....i.a
<marshmn> Canada?
<themanwho> wrong
<marshmn> :(
<penguin42> daftykins: Of that's OK
<Azelphur> Llanfairpwllgwyngyll?
<themanwho> correct for the middle part daftkins
<themanwho> ok here it is
<themanwho> ...
<daftykins> i didn't even guess
<themanwho> the united states of america
<marshmn> oh right
<themanwho> daftykins that's a good price for a television what brand is it
<themanwho> i don't recommend smart tv though as they can be hacked into apparently
<daftykins> lol.
<themanwho> which brand
<themanwho> is it vizio
<daftykins> no.
<themanwho> sony
<daftykins> sorry but as bored as you may be, i'm not hugely keen on your gobby style :)
<penguin42> daftykins: I bought myself a JVC branded one in a Dixons bank holiday sale last year, the firmware in it is awful
<themanwho> i am not hugely keen on your rudeness either daftykins
<daftykins> unlucky then
<themanwho> but i suppose with you it comes naturally lol
<daftykins> penguin42: heh, what for - smart functionality or general UI operation for settings, etc?
<penguin42> daftykins: It's not very smart anyway; but hmm lets see
<penguin42> daftykins: OK, so the normal one is that the schedule view is awful, there's a bug where the UI slowly slows down as you use it more and more
<penguin42> daftykins: But the fun bug is if you have it on SCART and then type a channel number (to switch back to DTV) it switches to the channel-1 from what you typed
<daftykins> ah ok so Freeview EPG?
<daftykins> hehe :D
<penguin42> daftykins: Yeh, it only shows a pretty narrow range (one hour perhaps two programs?) before you have to scroll
<daftykins> no connectivity or method for update then?
<penguin42> daftykins: It does have ether on it, but I've not let it connect anywhere
<daftykins> or perhaps even gamble with a factory reset to see if it helps
<daftykins> well you don't need it to go online directly necessarily, i'd just see if there's a version # and anything on their website
<penguin42> daftykins: It responds to a wget on port 80 but I've not found any page that returns anything :-)
<themanwho> "Touche"
<penguin42> daftykins: I'm pretty sure it's a rebadge of one made under a zillion different brands, it responds to the same key sequence to get into the factory settings as this range of cheap ones
<daftykins> ah har, i believe that was often the style of the ol' Japan Victor Company :>
<penguin42> daftykins: Nod, I think it's more just a brand name rather than anything more these days
<themanwho> still ranting are you daftykins oh shame
<daftykins> yeah, they dropped the ball i think in the TV world
<penguin42> daftykins: It's a LT-42c550, the Mac address shows up as Shenzhen MTC, I can see it matches a haier.com model
<themanwho> daftykins the sooner you get your head out the sand the sooner we can be on speaking terms
<daftykins> penguin42: Dixons/Currys purchase?
<penguin42> daftykins: Right
<penguin42> daftykins: Dirt cheap
<daftykins> http://uk.jvc-service.net/webtemp/LT-40C550%20LT-40C551%20LT-50C550%20Instruction%20Book.pdf?CFID=23885494&CFTOKEN=24503902
<daftykins> found a manual for a 40C550
<themanwho> get help daftykins for your own good
<penguin42> daftykins: Right, I've got the manual - with the TV!
<themanwho> just some advice take it or leave it up to you!
<daftykins> yeah i suppose my point was more that it makes no mention of a 42... and there were no downloads on the website of JVC UK
<themanwho> JVC is a crappy tv
<penguin42> daftykins: Right, I guess it's a case of 'what cheap panels have we got this week?'
<themanwho> it went out in the nineties
<themanwho> lol
<daftykins> i'd probably poke around in the menus for any sign of an update option, but it doesn't look likely
<daftykins> nope looks like there's none, factory reset is there though :D
<penguin42> daftykins: Nod, I should probably check their site as well again, or I could ping them since I did spend the extra on the 'everything' guarantee
<penguin42> daftykins: It doesn't need a reset
<daftykins> how do you know? tried it once before, or you think setting it up from new was enough to consider it a permanent bug? i'm just bringing up the options...
<penguin42> daftykins: Well none of the bugs feel like settings bugs
<daftykins> *shrug* i believe in trying with the little control you do have access to, makes no sense to assume up front
<penguin42> daftykins: Nod, I just solve the problem by mostly using my existing PVR on it and avoiding most of it's interface
<daftykins> mmm TVs have definitely just become glorified monitors now
<penguin42> right
<zmoylan-pi> glorified monitors with ideas above their station... eavsdropping and spying on you... :-P
<penguin42> this one hasn't got cameras or mics that I know of
<zmoylan-pi> well with your phones, tablets and laptops your place is well covered anyway... :-)
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: Yes, although if you were bugging someone perhaps it would be better ot put it in something people didn't expect to be smart, like a plain lightbulb
<zmoylan-pi> so when governments start giving people a free smartbulb we should worry?
<diddledan> My Dad's YouView box updated yesterday. now he's got horrible BT Branding on it everywhere - the only reason they provide is "because you have a BT broadband connection we've commandeered your third-party device"
<zmoylan-pi> in 2008 my then smartphone started showing vodafone adverts on all the pages i browsed... i rang to see how i could turn that silliness off and when told i couldn't took out and used pliers on the sim...
<diddledan> I mean if he'd bought a BT Vision box I could understand it having BT Branding, but he specifically bought a box that wasn't tied to an ISP
<zmoylan-pi> he might be able to sue them for damaging his device...
<daftykins> hmm.
<daftykins> seems a little wild to expect there to be *no* connection at all for it to have done it
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: Oh they wouldn't be telling you they're smartbulbs, they'd just be free/cheap normal bulbs - they wouldn't advertise smartness, they'd just be suspiciously cheap
<penguin42> diddledan: Do you think they're the same brand/model as the one BT uses and they're updating off an update server local to the ISP?
<zmoylan-pi> can't you make a rasp pi become a ad blocker for everything on the network?
<diddledan> if Dad had had a TalkTalk broadband seemingly it would have branded itself as a TalkTalk box in that update
<zmoylan-pi> maybe there's a way to replace the corporate logos in the firmware with your own gif/jpeg...
<daftykins> ;)
<diddledan> no it's specifically because BT and TalkTalk are two members of the consortium that created YouView and now they're commandeering any YouView box that wasn't sold as a "BT Vision" or a "TalkTalk TV" box when the owner is on their network
<daftykins> ah har
<diddledan> it's still underhanded IMO
<penguin42> diddledan: Complain to OFCOM?
<zmoylan-pi> a nice FakeNewsCorpâ¢ branding would be topical... :-)
<diddledan> Dad chose specifically NOT to buy a BT Vision box!
<diddledan> penguin42: aye
<zmoylan-pi> as far as i'm concerned bt branding your firmware with adverts/logos of their crap is completely wrong... but i'm not usually seen as the calm reasoned device when companies mess with my hardware software
 * diddledan sits with zmoylan-pi on the grouch bench
<diddledan> maybe I'm turning into a gerroff my lawn person
<zmoylan-pi> we have official walkings sticks to wave in the air :-)
<diddledan> and to bash teenagers' ankles
<zmoylan-pi> too obvious... with skill you can catch the rubber sole at back of shoe as they walk past and pull their shoe off as they pass /accidently/
<diddledan> they're great for shoving into a passing cyclist's spokes :-p
<zmoylan-pi> bonus points for doing this as they walk through a puddle
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> we're gonna turn into awesome old people!
<zmoylan-pi> nah, my family dies young so i have to get my fun in now :-)
<diddledan> aww :-(
<diddledan> we'll mourn the day we have no more pi!
<daftykins> cyclist hate :(
<diddledan> daftykins: :-p
<daftykins> mind you my lane is pedestrianised and sometimes i imagine the same when cheeky swines cycle down it
<daftykins> of course i never cycle to my door *cough*
<diddledan> lol
<zmoylan-pi> i shall create a bot that a) insults ms b) loves nokia c) disses the new scripting language/technology of the week
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: you mean it's gonna be you++
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> zmoylan-lie
<diddledan> zmoylan-aws?
<diddledan> maybe zmoylan-lambda?
<zmoylan-pi> zx-moylan... :-P
<diddledan> wow, that's hardcore botting!
<zmoylan-pi> as long as there's no earthquakes to cause ram pack wobble...
<Azelphur> umm, what on earth is going on here? https://dpaste.de/t3kr dd is saying no space left on device at 8GB on a brand new 240GB Sandisk drive I picked up from Maplin
<penguin42> Azelphur: What does it say in /proc/partitions ?
<Azelphur> penguin42: http://pastebin.com/YRynBD5h
<diddledan> how big is frontroomrescue.img?
<Azelphur> 112G
<diddledan> although, I'd prefer to call the hunky men from the Fire Service to perform any Front Room Rescues
<daftykins> it's a faaaaaaake!
<penguin42> Azelphur: Weird, it looks sane
<Azelphur> diddledan: haha, it's the frontroom computer and I had to use ddrescue on the drive that failed
<diddledan> daftykins: fake all the thangs!
<Azelphur> daftykins: if it's a fake...then this is big
<diddledan> especially the news!
<Azelphur> because, I bought it from a maplin brick&mortar store
<daftykins> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qKcJF4fOPs
<diddledan> nice clip!
<penguin42> Azelphur: Even the fakes I dont think fail like that, they just wrap around :-)
<Azelphur> hehe
<diddledan> I feel like buying the ST:E boxset
<daftykins> also lul 'sudo' with root
<daftykins> muscle memory :)
<diddledan> lol, I missed that
<diddledan> I do that a lot
<Azelphur> daftykins: haha, yea
<diddledan> I like the incantation "sudo !!" for when I meant to sudo the previous command. makes me think I'm saying "SUDO DAMMIT!!"
<daftykins> that's a thing for previous?
<diddledan> yup
<daftykins> D:
<zmoylan-pi> i recently rewatched st:e for first time in a few years... it has finally grown on me
<daftykins> meh i cursor up, home, sudo
<daftykins> ;D
<diddledan> I keep using different systems with completely disparate keyboards so I never know where the home key is
<diddledan> plus my mac doesn't have a single home key
<daftykins> that's why they need to die in a fire
<Azelphur> well that's interesting
<diddledan> some mac apps use fn-leftarra, others use cmd-leftarra, and yet others use shift-fn-leftarra, and more use shift-cmd-leftarra
<Azelphur> I plugged it into my desktop and ran gparted
<Azelphur> it says it'll fix it
<diddledan> jim did that
<zmoylan-pi> you need a nice big single button for those macro jobs... http://imgur.com/KHtFXem
<diddledan> and then he apparently fiddled it
<daftykins> diddledan: some of his fixes weren't welcome
<daftykins> much like gparteds :P
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> I'm waiting for the parody song "Jim'll fiddle with you (and you, and you)"
<daftykins> Azelphur: surely just a quick zero to the start would start making things see sense...
<Azelphur> maybe, but then surely dding a raw image file is essentially the same thing
<daftykins> Azelphur: also how is it that you always manage to get wonky hardware situations like this? cursed you are!
<diddledan> "and papa papa papa. just don't tell papa"
<Azelphur> daftykins: I think it's more that I buy a lot of hardware
<zmoylan-pi> ...or fishing hardware out of bottom of bargin bin...
<daftykins> well not really, because i do too for clients and never have anything like you do :)
 * Azelphur shrugs
<Azelphur> daftykins: the first SSD that failed was a Chinese cheapy SSD that people said was good
<Azelphur> it was not good, it failed.
<daftykins> you and your dodgy deals, oy
<Azelphur> hehe
<zmoylan-pi> i made a lot of my hardware problems go away when i managed to steer my bosses away from cheapest hardware options...
<daftykins> there we go, zmoylan-pi i'm assigning you to Azelphur for purchase persuasion :>
<zmoylan-pi> what brand is this new modem? uhhh.... ::flips box around a few times:: modem
<daftykins> "you had me at AT"
<zmoylan-pi> some of these modems wanted no truck with at commands.... :-/
<Azelphur> hehe, there are some things I'll cheap out on, and some things I won't, depends what it is.
<daftykins> so is it showing the full size yet? :>
<zmoylan-pi> my first rule was... if someone has to travel to backend of the country spend a few pennies extra and save a few extra trips
<diddledan> you see Wendell from Level1Techs on BoobTube made an old Hayes 1200bps modem into a computer which has an emulated modem connection to a raspi zero running various BBS archives?!
<zmoylan-pi> link?
 * zmoylan-pi goes binging...
 * diddledan scurries off to find
<diddledan> https://youtu.be/3j-Rb9u3EHc
<Azelphur> daftykins: I decided to try doing it from my PC
<Azelphur> just to see what happens
<diddledan> I take offense at the suggestion that modem sounds are "horrible screeching noises"
<Azelphur> looks like it might be working on my PC :)
<daftykins> were you using a banana earlier?
<diddledan> nana!
 * diddledan like nana
<Azelphur> was using my home server
<zmoylan-pi> i was hoping he'd used the front leds for email, twitter, rss notifications :-)
<diddledan> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/aa/BananaMan_Introduction_Shot.JPG
<Azelphur> speaking of my home server, I'm sure you'll get a kick out of my nagios alert atm
<Azelphur> CRIT - 97.6% used (13.21 of 13.54 TB), (warn/crit at 80.00/90.00%), trend: +119.82 GB / 24 hours
<diddledan> is it alarming?
<diddledan> you're using 13.2TB of storage?!
<Azelphur> yep
<diddledan> even my *cough* legal movie rips aren't using more than 5 or 6TB
<Azelphur> diddledan: yea, we do have a lot of things, there are backups and stuff too on there
<Azelphur> I've got another 5TB drive ready to go in the array, Dell Perc H310 in the post since I've used all my motherboards SATA ports now
<diddledan> what FS or RAID are you using?
<Azelphur> ext4 raid6
 * diddledan geeks-out
<Azelphur> just softraid, mdadm
<diddledan> aah, I've got my 4x4TB running on ZFS
<diddledan> 4xz3**
<diddledan> 4x3**
<daftykins> /dev/sdb1        22T  9.4T   13T  43% /media/array2
<daftykins> not a lorra growth there
<diddledan> got a pair of 10GbE cards coming in the next week or two
<Azelphur> diddledan: yea, I hear you can't expand ZFS though
<Azelphur> diddledan: nice
<daftykins> ooh funky, switch or are you going to save moneys with a direct cable?
<daftykins> oof amazon results for 10GbE NICs aren't promising
<diddledan> you can, but you need to plan ahead of time for how you expect to extend it - you add VDEVs which must be matched with those already in the pool you want to extend - so my 4x3TB disks are two pairs of mirrored VDEVs so to add more storage I can either replace one disk at a time with a larger capacity and resilver until each vdev is using the larger size, OR
<diddledan> I can add further mirror pairs
<diddledan> for now I'm going direct connect
<diddledan> got a pair of these coming: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Chelsio-10GB-2-Ports-PCI-e-Opt-Card-LP-Bracket-PCI-E-110-1088-30/351969892022?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140620091118%26meid%3Dc79f851eb96e441c81d1b103d86954c9%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D5%26sd%3D252776901036
<daftykins> my my
<diddledan> they work with freenas ootb
<diddledan> that's the preferred brand for freenas
<daftykins> what've you got with low profile slots o0 rack kit?
<diddledan> I went with the same for my vmware esxi
<Azelphur> wow, that's very cheap
<diddledan> they're really difficult to find with normal brackets :-( so I've got coming from france a pci-e riser ribbon cable
<daftykins> ooh-err
<diddledan> I did look for someone selling some kind of bracket that combines a pcie extension with a bracket to adapt a low-profile card into a standard slot, but nada
<daftykins> mm suppose it wouldn't just unscrew and come off looking at the style of connector on the reverse
<diddledan> it's an SFP+ port on the back - fibre
<Azelphur> diddledan: could probably DIY something pretty easily
<daftykins> yeah, figured as much
<diddledan> got transeivers coming from a separate purchase
<daftykins> i'd have been tempted to chop the slot top yeah XD
<daftykins> transceivers too!
<daftykins> although trans sieves are delightfully PC
<diddledan> the transeivers fit in the SFP+ ports
<diddledan> you can get a card with the transeivers for about Â£40-50 on ebay
<daftykins> just teasing your spelling
<diddledan> ah. well caught
 * diddledan seives some transexuals
<diddledan> and just to be fully compliant, some transvestites too
<daftykins> very good, sir
<diddledan> oh, I forgot the transisters
<diddledan> spelign
<diddledan> transistors*
 * diddledan sieves some transistors too
<diddledan> Merkel's WTF face: https://twitter.com/SarahWoodwriter/status/842900666288812032/photo/1?
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> have you seen the pic suggesting Trump is actually a squirrel hiding in a human suit?
<daftykins> https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/12/b4/23/12b42318e461025b7f0cb37eb056c435.jpg
<daftykins> oops delightfully family friendly link
<zmoylan-pi> only if the squirrel believes it's a dog and gets distracted every time it sees itself...
<Azelphur> well, that drive dd'd successfully with its 99.9% from ddrescue and it boots and seems to work
<Azelphur> calling it a win xD
<zmoylan-pi> declare victory and move on... tis the best way :-)
<zmoylan-pi> i think america has a mission accomplished banner you can get cheap :-P
<Azelphur> gparted didn't recognise the swap partition as a partition at all, so I'm guessing the 0.01% loss was in the swap partition
<Azelphur> which is useful
 * brobostigon reports, apparently his DM'ing was good, and all had fun.
<zmoylan-pi> no tpk?!
<m0nkey_> Question for you guys, how's ZFS stability on Ubuntu right now?
<diddledan> no idee
<diddledan> pas d'idee**
<ali1234> what's a good video editor these days?
<ali1234> anything in the snap store?
<ali1234> trying shotcut...
<diddledan> adobe premiere? ;-)
<ali1234> it doesn't work :(
#ubuntu-uk 2018-03-12
<Guest48453> einar77
<daftykins> that looks a lot like a password
<Guest48453> Whoiseinar77
<daftykins> that's not how a command looks
<SuperMatt> what's new pussycats?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<SuperMatt> I dun some good code this weekend
<brobostigon> o/
<SuperMatt> https://imgur.com/xs8TqqY - I am genuinely surprised how fast this is
<SuperMatt> hah, I just noticed the mild swears in the list of 4 and 5 letter words
<foobarry> have a "new" PC but annoyingly 1 month before LTS release
<foobarry> means i will likely be reinstalling in a couple of months
<foobarry> and its my work PC. my current work pc hasnt been reinstalled in 4-5 years
<SuperMatt> Install 17.10 for now and upgrade to 18.04 in a month
<SuperMatt> 17.10 is solid
<Nafallo> *shrugs* help beta test 18.04?
<Nafallo> feature freeze is already in effect
<SuperMatt> I want to switch to 18.04, but it doesn't even have firefox 58 yet
<SuperMatt> Considering 59 is out this week (hopefully with csd), I don't want to install 18.04 yet
<foobarry> gonna beta
<SuperMatt> fair enough
<foobarry> do i have to disable secure boot to install it?
<TJ-> foobarry: the installers have a signed shimx64.efi so S.B. should be fine
<foobarry> yeah i'm struggling here
<foobarry> wonder if beta is different
<foobarry> hmm a release version works ok
<TJ-> foobarry: As far as I know the cd-image builders use the same (signed) GRUB packages
<foobarry> "there is no regular Ubuntu 18.04 Beta 1 release. " ah
<foobarry> "Ubuntu proper only participates in the second round of beta testing"
<foobarry> looks like i'm on budgie for a month :(
<SuperMatt> Install 17.10 then upgrade
<TJ-> foobarry: You can install from another flavour then just "sudo apt install gnome-desktop" or whatever
<SuperMatt> well, you'd want to do ubuntu-desktop
<SuperMatt> because the gnome-session doesn't give you the same stuff as the ubuntu-session
<TJ-> ahh, yes. You can tell I don't use either of those :)
<SuperMatt> I thoroughly enjoy using the ubuntu version of gnome.
<SuperMatt> stock gnome is good, but ubuntu's version is just that tiny bit better
<TJ-> Anything Unity/Gnome related has been awful for my config, I abandonded it about 6 years ago
<SuperMatt> OOI, why would that be?
<TJ-> multi-GPU, multi-monitor
<SuperMatt> Ah, I have multi monitor which works fine with gnome, but I don't have multigpu
<TJ-> I've got 6 monitors over 3 GPUs
<SuperMatt> geez
<SuperMatt> I only have 2 monitors
<TJ-> I use 4 X sessions too
<foobarry> 17.10 feels wrong when we're so close to new release :D
<zmoylan-pi> so young... when you're older you always want an old (warts and all but we know what they are) distro... :-)
<foobarry> i am older...and i still have 14.04 on my work machine
<foobarry> which is why its annoying being in limbo for another month until i can install a long term desktop on my new machine
<SuperMatt> Way I see things is that because most of my work is done via browser or terminal sshed into another box, it doesn't matter what I run on my desktop as long as I like it
<Seeker`> pfft, 5.10 is the way to go
<Seeker`> can't remember if it was that or 5.04 I started with
<foobarry> i was 4.10/5.04 era
<foobarry> just desperate after debian dselect and installer ugliness
<Seeker`> I came from FC2 or 3
<foobarry> yeah. fedora wasn't working well
<foobarry> had the same problem
<foobarry> dependency issues seemed particualry bad
<Seeker`> I think 3 or 4 had bad compatiability issues with my laptop / pc
<SuperMatt> moan all you want about fedora core, but we all know the bad says were around the beefy miracle days
<SuperMatt> *days
<foobarry> but the best name
<foobarry> also...bring back wobbly windows!
<SuperMatt> true that
<SuperMatt> I think the raring days of Ubuntu weren't great too :/
<foobarry> remember automatix?
<SuperMatt> nope
<foobarry> it was an app to make things easier on ubuntu
<foobarry> when simple things weren't that easy for all suers
<foobarry> however, when the next upgrade came out, the ubuntu forums went mental
<foobarry> because automatix did something to break all the buntus
<foobarry> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatix_(software)
<foobarry> Automatix was not recommended by the Ubuntu development team, which has criticised its content.[2] Some individual Ubuntu developers blamed Automatix 1 for breaking updates from Dapper to Edgy.[3][4] On 2 November 2006 Ubuntu CTO Matt Zimmerman said "I cannot recommend the use of this program, and systems where it has been used cannot be supported with a clean and official upgrade path."[5]
<SuperMatt> oh gosh, sounds like a nightmare
<SuperMatt> I've pretty much given up on a lot of third party tools.
<SuperMatt> there used to be a number of unity tweak tools, but often they wouldn't be updated with the new version of Ubuntu, and so you couldn't get all the tweaks you wanted working
<diplo> Automatix was around in the early days, I remember it
<diplo> It sucked
<foobarry> a partly necessary evil
<SuperMatt> How so?
<diplo> I guess he means because some things were a pain to do back then and it made things easier
<SuperMatt> fair enough
<diplo> I still think ubuntu was great back in the 4.10 days, much better than Suse/Redhat
<diplo> I was using debian just before then as well, also a pita
<SuperMatt> I didn't start linuxing until 8.04, so I don't have much experience of those really early versions
<diplo> Still 10 years ago.. :)
<SuperMatt> Gosh, yes
<SuperMatt> 10 years and 20 versions
<diddledan> I started on buntu at 5.10/6.06 era. Before that I was a ricer (gentoo)
<SuperMatt> I had dabbled a little with debian on and off in my time
<SuperMatt> especially at uni
<SuperMatt> which is when you're supposed to play the field a little
<SuperMatt> but back then it wasn't really nice enough to use in order to get me hooked
<diplo> I started off with AIX and RedHat 7, RH was our mail server and AIX was our ERP system
<zmoylan-pi> red hat 4 just as redhat 5 came along...
<diplo> Not RHEL zmoylan-pi ?
<zmoylan-pi> nah, we were playing with it to learn...
<zmoylan-pi> half the fun was finding hardware around the office that people wouldn't miss that was compatible... :-)
<diplo> No I mean was it the early version, non EL
<diplo> So 97-2000 time ?
<zmoylan-pi> downloaded onto umpteen floppies using a 56k modem... yes... :-)
<SuperMatt> then curse when one of them can't be read
<diplo> hahah. still have a pile here somewhere for aix
<zmoylan-pi> then it was a quick shuffle and rewrtie the flp file to a new disk...
<m0nkey_> Ah, yes. Download all the Red hat 2.0 floppy images only to find one or more of them are corrupted.
<diddledan> pm blames russia: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43377856
<DrRoach> Hi is there anyone here that can help me with an issue with mysql?
<daftykins> xD
<zmoylan-pi> now if it had of been a dbase iii+ problem... :-P
<daftykins> (:
<Gargoyle> The youth of today! No answer in less than 60s = "Pffft! I'm off..." ;-)
<daftykins> doubt it was youth to blame ;)
<daftykins> what do you guys make of the situation when users come in and ask a help question, but refuse to explain the scenario or why they want to do the thing they want help with?
<daftykins> is it bad of a support person to feel they need to understand the task? to me it's key, but in another channel i'm having expletives hurled at me for it
<Gargoyle> Well. If the context helps solve the problem I don't see the issue.
<daftykins> *nod*
<Gargoyle> I don't think it's bad for you to want to understand the scenario you are trying to help with.
<daftykins> it's a little odd for users to refuse to explain, too
<Gargoyle> Indeed.
<Gargoyle> If they are that sensitive, they'll have to figure out the solution on their own.
<Gargoyle> Or figure out a way to explain it in a way they are happy with.
<daftykins> such a strange one
#ubuntu-uk 2018-03-13
<diplo> Morning all
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> tuesday... the day after tomorrow is thursday and that's the week nearly over and here i am with nothing done... :-)
<brobostigon> oh well, i know that feeling, :)
<awilkins> NetworkManager question : Is it possible to add a configuration that is just DNS / search domain settings?
<awilkins> Background : I have to use the Shrewsoft VPN client because our VPN is stoopid and only does IKEv1 which StrongSwan hates (the fact there is no NetworkManager compatible IKEv1 VPN client in Ubuntu is a bug IMHO but another matter).
<awilkins> If you add DNS settings to the Shrewsoft client it overwrites /etc/resolv.conf which breaks a whole bunch of stuff
<awilkins> So I have turned that off and added the DNS lookups for the VPN manually to NetworkManager's instance of dnsmasq by adding files to /etc/NetworkManager/dnsmasq.d/
<awilkins> But those are now on all the time, which is OK most of the time because it just means lookups for certain domains time out because it tries to look them up on a DNS server that I have no route to (inside the VPN)
<awilkins> But it would be perfect if my stupid VPN-login shell script could also have an `nmcli` call that just told NetworkManager to reconfigure it's captive instance of dnsmasq.
<foobarry> any openstack/cloud engineer ppl looking for a job. i know of one
<ujjain> Anybody from Liverpool here?
<ujjain> Scammed out of Â£700 by somebody (fake name) at 705 Beetham Tower in Liverpool. I don't live in the UK. What should I do?
<foobarry> via what medium were you scammed?
<foobarry> paypal, bank transfer?
<SuperMatt> And how did they approach you?
<SuperMatt> And why are we dealing with this in #ubuntu-uk
<ujjain> He used my credit card. I've already handled things with the bank.
<ujjain> last 2 days
<SuperMatt> ah, sounds like you may have been skimmed
<SuperMatt> If the bank has dealth with it, the only course open to you is to contact the police, but I doubt much is going to happen
<foobarry> thats pretty much end of story
<foobarry> but worth contacting police if you are *sure* of his/her address
<foobarry> not sure how you can be sure
<ujjain> I have an order confirmation
<ujjain> from a webshop he purchased at
<ujjain> so j smith - 705 beetham tower liverpool, -, l39bd - United Kingdom - 	T: 07716542566
<ujjain> I doubt his name is J Smith though
<SuperMatt> then tell your local police force, and they should liase with liverpool police
<foobarry> https://www.actionfraud.police.uk/report_fraud
<ujjain> My local police is in Holland, but IÂ´ll try to do 2 police reports
<ujjain> Thanks foobarry
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/RealSardonicus/status/962642962273521664
<SuperMatt> This is my favourite tweet today: https://twitter.com/mwegner/status/968963277165273088
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/RealSirTomJones/status/973599357999165441
<diddledan> Mr Tom, the End of Leg
<daftykins> it's not unusual to reminisce
<diddledan> I find the past isn't what it used to be, though
<daftykins> i got asked to look at an HP DV7, sheesh - AMD Turion II, 4GB RAM and Windows 7
<daftykins> those horrid ones you have to take the screen off to get into
<diddledan> gah
<daftykins> intermittent power on, think it's just dead, Jim
<diddledan> it's life, just not as we know it
#ubuntu-uk 2018-03-14
<zmoylan-pi> https://www.numworks.com/ calculator you can programme in python...
<diddledan> I've cleared my desk
<diddledan> took a lot of effort
<diddledan> bonus though is my server closet is back in operation
<diddledan> .. and I can actually stretch my legs underneath my desk again
<daftykins> diddledan: it went down?
<diddledan> I stopped using it
<diddledan> the PCs had managed to migrate under my desk instead of in the closet
<daftykins> all the rack kit? nice foot warmer :>
<diddledan> nah the rack kit is all ancient stuff that I don't use anymore
<daftykins> oh o0 with the 10 gigglebit NICs?
<diddledan> the ten giggles are in desktop cases
<daftykins> ah har
<diddledan> I'd like to purchase proper rackable boxes for those systems though
<diddledan> rack cases are pricey though
<daftykins> yee and noisy for home
<diddledan> aye
<daftykins> is it me or does this give a blank page? xD http://www.dell.com/learn/uk/en/ukdfh1/campaigns/shop-outlet-deals
<diddledan> I been so busy this evening moving everything about that I've not eated yet :-p
<daftykins> tsk tsk what've you been up to!?
<diddledan> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/AtqRIko7/image.png
<daftykins> you should get some rice crispies in and then phone Xzibit, then you can snap crackle and pop whilst you snap dev
<diddledan> \o/
<daftykins> yep same, thanks sir
<daftykins> yay letsencrypt adds wildcard certs
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<diddledan> 23 russian diplomats are to be expelled
<zmoylan-pi> that'll show them...
<zmoylan-pi> it's pi day and stephen hawking has just died, they've released a new rasp pi 3 b+ https://imgur.com/gallery/62vpk
<brobostigon> boris looks mostly asleep? maybe his boss is boring him?
<zmoylan-pi> who is his boss these days as he sure as buggery isn't work for theresa may...
<brobostigon> good point, :)
<Seeker`> Jim Bowen died too
#ubuntu-uk 2018-03-15
<amonkQJL0VA> THIS IS A FREENODE BREAKING NEWS ALERT!! Hitechcg AND opal ARE GOING AT IT RIGHT NOW WITH A LOT OF FIGHTING AND ARGUING WOW YOU DON'T WANT TO MISS THIS!! TYPE /JOIN ## TO SEE THE ACTION...AGAIN TYPE /JOIN ## TO SEE THE ACTION!!
<amonkQJL0VA> THIS IS A FREENODE BREAKING NEWS ALERT!! Hitechcg AND opal ARE GOING AT IT RIGHT NOW WITH A LOT OF FIGHTING AND ARGUING WOW YOU DON'T WANT TO MISS THIS!! TYPE /JOIN ## TO SEE THE ACTION...AGAIN TYPE /JOIN ## TO SEE THE ACTION!!
<amonkQJL0VA> m0nkey_ uniquorn exobuzz ali1234 ubot9 fitnesslog _2E0LNX daftykins tripleclones arsen chrisccoulson SuperMatt diplo marcus__ ahayzen andatche dogmatic69 KrimZon mcs__ KrimZon_2 geheimnis` WillMoogle james_w stryx` Nafallo franck_ foobarry zmoylan-pi Chaser NET||abuse ChunkzZ ikonia tomred_ yaiyan popey flexiondotorg pendulum diddledan nhandler ging brobostigon webpigeon Darkstar__ zleap Oli Myrtti yothsoggoth xnox aptanet Gr
<SuperMatt> whatevs
<diplo> :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diplo> Morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning diplo
<diplo> How's life with you ?
<brobostigon> i think either of these two options, either half my sentence could be *** out or i could say not so goo.
<brobostigon> good*
<brobostigon> and you?
<diplo> Fairly similar, but plodding on
<brobostigon> :(
<brobostigon> hope better soon.
<diplo> And yourself :)
<diplo> Still working ?
<brobostigon> ty, :). no, still looking, no cigar yet.
<diplo> :( - hope you find something soon
<brobostigon> as do i, ty.
<daftykins> morn \o
<daftykins> telco engineers are here digging up the lane outside to replace my line :D
<brobostigon> morning
<diplo> Nice daftykins - ftth ? or just replacing copper ?
<Nafallo> you guys stopped with fttc now? :-)
<diplo> Well, wondering him being on a little island they may do it
<daftykins> diplo: copper for copper yep, but i'll have a more direct run to the exchange then - as-is i'm only ~600m out
<daftykins> bypassing another box will probably give me a nice jump :)
<daftykins> diplo: they've been laying out MSANs and getting most peoples lines below 400m length, so they're offering 100Mb on copper now - pretty funky
<daftykins> i'm on 60/10 myself which works just great over 600m as-is
<daftykins> i find it fascinating seeing this infrastructure stuff, there are now 6 guys outside due to complications :D
<diddledan> daftykins: with one guy in the hole, none of them seemingly doing anything?
<daftykins> hehe well it always looks that way, but now i know what's going on i understand it a bit - other than why they travel in pairs :D
<daftykins> subbys showed up first to dig up the lane, but then they discovered an electrical cable running along the top of the phone ones - so they had to get head office guys to come out and advise - then other guys are now splicing on new pairs from the offices next door to me and the properties beside me
<daftykins> *almost* turned into a full asbestos affair, but luckily the pipe is metal
<diddledan> this is how it goes down: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMKQVPV1pf0
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> well they better not cut the power or they'll be into my vault!
<diddledan> said the actress to the bishop
<daftykins> i assure you they never met!
<daftykins> i gotta go and do the RAM + SSD in that late 2009 iMac soon, seems they might lose the bluetooth keyboard though on win10 64-bit
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/JanelleCShane/status/974132303315136513
<daftykins> i had it the other day with a client on a more recent iMac
<daftykins> :D amazing
<daftykins> true out of the box thinking
<diddledan> and people say we don't need to worry about AI
<daftykins> ali1234: wb
<ali1234> i accidentally typed reboot on the wrong computer :(
<daftykins> wewps
<diddledan> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1534877882/digitiser-the-show-proper-retro-gaming-tv
<Azelphur> I see this sign outside my house, looks promising https://www.reddit.com/r/Margate/comments/84d8wi/soon/
<Azelphur> wouldn't mind me some 300mbit
<daftykins> VM's upload is pretty poor though eh, plus caps and poor peak rate speeds
<diddledan> "soon"
<Azelphur> daftykins: max package is 20mbps up, same as the best bt infinity anyway
<daftykins> mmm, crapper tech though
<diplo> All sorted now daftykins ?
<diplo> Sorry didn't reply earlier, building my new PC and used the screen I'm plugged into
<diplo> :)
<diddledan> https://media.giphy.com/media/oGD7WjOV5M316/giphy.gif
<daftykins> diplo: :D no worries, nah they're coming back in the morning now to re-do my internal run, then i'll be on 100% fresh copper \o/ how goes the new machine?
#ubuntu-uk 2018-03-16
<diplo> Still being built :( - first forgot a cpu cooler, then found out with Ryzen machines you can't use onboard gfx - so last delivery today hopefully and it'll be alive!
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<daftykins> wowzer, just had my new phone line done - my router now syncs at 61Mb for my 60Mb service (instead of 52 to 58 tops before) and my download speed has gone from 6.3MB/sec to 6.9 :D
<diddledan> daftykins: might want to get them to reset the exchange training thing to get your line to retrain itself to the new conditions rather than waiting an age for it to stabilise (resetting the training means it will profile more aggressively IIRC)
<daftykins> nah it was a whole new copper run from end to end, i'm probably in a totally different linecard now
<diddledan> gotcha
<daftykins> it's been instantly as good as it's gonna get \o/
<diddledan> \o/
<daftykins> well, might still creep up i suppose once it settles :>
<daftykins> engineer pulled the power cable out of my server, hah
<diddledan> "how can one insulated wire bring so much happiness?!"
<diddledan> bah
<diddledan> stupid engineers
<daftykins> best part was mine and the neighbours lines we'd unclipped from the front of my house last summer to repaint it all, so now they're gone and the fresh ones are tacked on - it's looking really smart
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTkRbni9HbY
<daftykins> took the neighbours via another route so it can't be seen, too
<daftykins> just finished setting up a synology 2 bay NAS with a pair of 10TB WD Red disks in, now got 6TB+ of video to rsync to it xD
<zmoylan-pi> spinning, spinning, spinning, keep those diskies spinning, raw-video :-P âª
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> first opened window this year just happened at my place
<diddledan> it's 22C in here right now
<daftykins> crikey!
<daftykins> still awaiting a call from Zen as to when they can push this BT install back to for my clients London pad, oy
<diddledan> you know your evil apple tablet? want more evil Microsoft stuff on your evil apple tablet? Good news everybody: https://www.windowscentral.com/microsoft-edge-beta-ios-picks-ipad-support
<diddledan> another Ruskie dead?! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43433552
#ubuntu-uk 2018-03-17
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<zmoylan-pi> i'd head out today but roads are blocked, parades all over the place
#ubuntu-uk 2018-03-18
<zmoylan-pi> oh no, not again! https://twitter.com/angryearthling/status/975157299999379457/photo/1
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> At least no petunias were harmed in this snow...
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<zmoylan-pi> snow on the ground... that changes usual plans for a nice long sunday walk...
<brobostigon> o/
<brobostigon> same as here too, :(
<SuperEngineer> sudo build snow_man
<SuperEngineer> sudo cmake snow_angel
<zleap> :)
<brobostigon> :)
<TidalFlow> Virgin angryies https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Byz94fkwf6U
<SuperEngineer> Quiet today. I'm guessing they're all out sunbathing.
<penguin42> oh yes, lovely weather for sunbathing
<SuperEngineer> :)
 * SuperEngineer looks on bright side: if it's snowing, it isn't raining!
<penguin42> actually it's not snowing here now, we've just got a layer of it and it's still 1c
<SuperEngineer> typical... not quite cold enough to make your own ice, not quite warm enough to put the mankini on.
#ubuntu-uk 2020-03-09
<brobostigon> morning
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
#ubuntu-uk 2020-03-10
<brobostigon> morning
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> \o
#ubuntu-uk 2020-03-11
<daftykins> interesting, looks like landscape doesn't update live in Firefox 74
<brobostigon> morning
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<ball> popey: You're coming out of my speakers.
<popey> Sorry about that
 * ball chuckles
<ball> I don't think I've ever heard the Linux For Everyone podcast before.
<popey> how did you stumble on that then? :)
<ball> Followed the podcast yesterday on Twitter when someone else mentioned it, I think.
<popey> ahhh
<ball> It's snaptastic.
<knightwise> hey popey
<knightwise> i enjoyed your latest youtube video's ! :) especially the screenshot tour down memory lane
<ball> I find myself wanting a ThinkPad
<ball> I blame popey.
<zmoylan-pi> wanting a thinkpad is perfectly natural... owning more than 1 is almost normal. 5 or more and you are into linux version of cat lady :-)
<ball> One challenge is that there have been so many versions over the years it's not easy to know what kind I would like.
<zmoylan-pi> not all thinkpads are the same... no
<ball> Hmm... ThinkPad 11e claims to be "Student proof".
<zmoylan-pi> they always invent a dumber student...
<ball> popey: Any ide whether that one works with Linux?
<ball> idea*
<ball> ideal* <- for the Bristolians
<popey> I honestly don't know. Not played with chromebooks
<popey> oh, it's windows, not chromeos
<ball> $480 after coupon.
<ball> Celeron N4100.  Let me look that up.
<zmoylan-pi> try https://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/ThinkWiki
<ball> It would be nice to buy it with Linux on, given the choice
<ball> ..if only because it tells the manufacturer that people are interested in Linux.
<zmoylan-pi> manufacturers don't see people as customers, they see companies that buy 10000 of their laptops as customers
<ball> In my last job I used to buy quite a few Dell laptops
 * ball contemplates sticking the kettle on.
 * zmoylan-pi confesses to having never having used a dell desktop or laptop in my life.
<zmoylan-pi> and my first pc was a mitac in late 80s...
<ball> zmoylan-pi: We had about 400 desktops in the field and were buying Dells to replace those when they failed.
<ball> (back when we were allowed to buy things)
<ball> Mostly Optiplex 3070 tiny and mini tower variants.
<ball> (quad core i3, SSD etc.)
 * ball looks up the ThinkPad E.
 * ball accidentally adopts the ThinkPad 860
<zmoylan-pi> left in a basket on your doorstep? :-P
<ball> I would give it a good home.
<lornajane> I have less than five thinkpads, so I'm officially not a linux cat lady
<ball> That 11e looks as though it would do everything I need.
<lornajane> I think we're only a six-thinkpad household, so far
<ball> If I find a job I might buy one.
<zmoylan-pi> dangerously close though... :-P
<lornajane> yeah four of them are mine. And there's time yet ... also this X1 technically belongs to my employer and I'll miss it when I leave
<zmoylan-pi> will they? :-P
<lornajane> eh, probably. They're pretty enterprise. My first thinkpad was "inherited"
<zmoylan-pi> one of the few laptop brands that a second hand laptop is still very desirable
<lornajane> I left a job with no job to go to, no laptop of my own, and it was way overdue for replacement. I still have that machine
 * zmoylan-pi looks around room at 4 'old' laptops sitting idle.... all craptops as they were mostly obsolete when bought new.
<zmoylan-pi> all except my precious, my olpc.... :-)
<ball> lornajane: I was laid off at the beginning of this year.
<ball> brb, lunch.
<lornajane> ball: ouch. My manager is looking to move on and I'm not sure if I want to stay without her. I'm hoping to be making the decision myself though and in my own time
<daftykins> ball: grabbing an older model ThinkPad would be the way to go, i picked up a T440s for Â£170 on ebay a bit ago - 4th generation 'haswell' core i5, that'd be the minimum to aim for really
#ubuntu-uk 2020-03-12
<ball> No visits from back home, then.
<brobostigon> morning
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> \o
#ubuntu-uk 2020-03-13
<brobostigon> morning
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> \o/
<zmoylan-pi> i should probably try and go asleep at some point :-)
<brobostigon> :)
